# Anyone here listen to technical/progressive death metal?



## ASupervillain (Dec 2, 2010)

I listen to a lot of technical and progressive death metal and was wondering, given that this seems like an atmosphere full of people who know a thing or two about music, how many people here listen to any. It seems like the kind of thing that goes hand in hand with classical music given the complexity and musicianship involved. I'd be very interested in hearing what people who are well-versed in classical music but have never listened to any technical death metal would think of it. If you haven't, I imagine that you read the words "death metal" and immediately thought of some noisy, simple sounding music as is the stereotype, I can assure you there's much more to it.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

I began to listen to death metal far before I began to listen to classical music. I still listen to some death metal today, but I don't enjoy it or appreciate it as much as I do classical music. Metal does, however, remain one of my favourite "genres" of popular music. I've never been much of a rock guy myself, with the exception of the great progressive rock bands.

There is a bit to death metal, that's for sure. But I feel that many metal bands are sort of "aimed" in the wrong direction, and they end up losing musicality and coherence in their writing while trying to become really complex, original, and intensely emotional. Some bands do try to incorporate some interesting ideas in their music, but there is still so much music in the genre that feels really commercial, hipster-ish, banal, poorly written, and/or bland. That said, I think that there are some neat bands in the death metal genre.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I contribute to several classical music forums (fora?). In all of them there are occasionally people posting about various kinds of metal music as if frantic somehow to exonerate the music or their taste. They seem desperate to find a justification for this stuff through some tenuous link with classical music. I don't cast judgements on music I haven't heard. I've heard a fair amount of metal - even death metal. Admittedly, some of the musicians involved in this genre are very technically accomplished. I can tell this by the way they play and through some of the harmonic schemes (not always basic stuff) they employ. HOWEVER, I don't understand some people's assertion (not this poster, admittedly) that metal owes a large debt to and is worthy of comparison with classical music. I'm afraid I find this a ridiculous contention.

It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Enough said.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

Delicious Manager said:


> I contribute to several classical music forums (fora?). In all of them there are occasionally people posting about various kinds of metal music as if frantic somehow to exonerate the music or their taste. They seem desperate to find a justification for this stuff through some tenuous link with classical music. I don't cast judgements on music I haven't heard. I've heard a fair amount of metal - even death metal. Admittedly, some of the musicians involved in this genre are very technically accomplished. I can tell this by the way they play and through some of the harmonic schemes (not always basic stuff) they employ. HOWEVER, I don't understand some people's assertion (not this poster, admittedly) that metal owes a large debt to and is worthy of comparison with classical music. I'm afraid I find this a ridiculous contention.
> 
> It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Enough said.


Well said.

Interestingly enough, I've also been across forums where people who make similar claims regarding rap music and it's parallels with classical music.


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

It's more of a convergent evolution kind of thing rather than shared heritage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

KaerbEmEvig said:


> It's more of a convergent evolution kind of thing rather than shared heritage.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution


Fair enough.

I do remember reading about a postulation that some serious metal bands _strive_ for the same sort of end as a classical composer might, and how this has led such bands to write with interesting and creative techniques that are also found in classical music.

Pretty much all music today has been influenced by something that has come before it, though. Lots of metal musicians, and musicians in other genres, study, or have studied classical music, and some of them employ song-writing techniques that are used in classical music composing (e.g., counterpoint, pedal point, collateral parts, etc.). Now, of course, this doesn't mean that metal music then should be compared to classical music as though they are that _similar_. There are still very striking, vast differences between classical music and metal music, and like Delicious said above, it seems that a lot of metal heads feel that that such comparisons/parallels between metal and classical can be used to justify the relevance of, or to exonerate, the metal music as if it were better than, say, rock or country.


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## ASupervillain (Dec 2, 2010)

Yeah I definitely don't claimed shared heritage haha, I know that death metal clearly has roots in metal which essentially sprang from blues. Black Sabbath (who many consider the first metal band though this is debatable) were basically a rock/blues band who used heavier guitar tones and played with a unique style. The heritage is claimed because some similar sort of sounds and atmospheres could be found in classical music long before Black Sabbath. 

I'm definitely not trying to frantically exonerate my taste, I enjoy progressive and technical death metal and could care less who else does. Like I said in the OP I'm just very interested to see what take people who know classical music have or would have on it. I was also interested in seeing how many people would assume that I was talking about the stereotypical loud, noisy death metal with rudimentary song writing, and perhaps show them that that isn't what all death metal is.

I did want to post some links to some of the better, intelligent death metal bands so anyone who isn't familiar with any can listen and tell me what they think, and to show everyone some excellent, well written stuff that they might appreciate and enjoy. Those will come shortly.


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## ASupervillain (Dec 2, 2010)

Here are some excellent bands for your listening enjoyment. I wanted to include a diverse range of bands because it really is an extremely diverse genre. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on it, even if you think it's all crap haha. Again I'm not seeking to exonerate my tastes, I just want to expose you to some interesting music.

Sleep Terror- Ascetic Meditation: 




This is an instrumental band, they're extremely technical and incorporate some jazzy elements into it, some people criticize them for being overly technical for the sake of being technical or as it's called in the metal world "wankery." Personally I think they write songs well and the technicality is enjoyable.

Necrophagist- Stabwound: 




These guys are a huge name in the world of tech-death, they have a lot of classical influences. Their solos are really amazing, and not just for the technicality. Actually here's the same song played on piano, it sounds like it could pass for a composition written for the piano, 




Gorod- Disavow your God: 




These guys are amazing, I don't know how else to describe it, if you don't listen to any of the other links I would highly recommend listening to this song all the way through. All of these bands are very progressive so if you listen to the first 5 seconds and give up on it you have no idea how the song was about to change.

Cryptopsy- Phobophile: 




These are some of the original innovators in the genre of tech-death, the short piano piece at the beginning is a template for the whole song.

Odious Mortem- Fragmented Oblivion: 



Odious Mortem- The Endless Regression of Mind: 




These guys are much more on the "brutal" end of death metal than any of these other bands, but they're technically accomplished and the solos in both of those songs are definitely worth listening to. I doubt you'd be able to understand the lyrics, but if you care to look them up they're singing about metaphysical and philosophical concepts, very interesting.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

ASupervillain said:


> Here are some excellent bands for your listening enjoyment. I wanted to include a diverse range of bands because it really is an extremely diverse genre. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have on it, even if you think it's all crap haha. Again I'm not seeking to exonerate my tastes, I just want to expose you to some interesting music.
> 
> Sleep Terror- Ascetic Meditation:
> 
> ...


I've heard a number of these, being a metal fan myself, but here are some comments.

The sleep terror one is rife with wankery . The riffs in it are kinda neat, though. But it's kinda haggard, lol.

Necrophagist is cool. One of my favourite guitar solos is by this band in the song Fermented Offal Discharge.

Never heard of Gorod before now, but this is a band I wouldn't mind checking out a bit more of after hearing this song.

Cryptopsy is cool too. Phobophile is one of the songs that got me into death metal in the first place ten years ago. Too bad they're just sucky now.

Odious Mortem I've heard of also, they're pretty good.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Charon said:


> I do remember reading about a postulation that some serious metal bands _strive_ for the same sort of end as a classical composer might, and how this has led such bands to write with interesting and creative techniques that are also found in classical music.


Striving is one thing. ACHIEVING is quite another!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Uhm, another dude that registered here just to talk about metal.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

Delicious Manager said:


> Striving is one thing. ACHIEVING is quite another!


Exactly :tiphat:, hence I italicized strive in my post. Maybe some bands/musicians are trying to reach the same sort of end, but really, achieving it is a different story!


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## ASupervillain (Dec 2, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Uhm, another dude that registered here just to talk about metal.


Not at all, I've registered here because I'm beginning to have a greater appreciation for classical music and this seems like an excellent place to learn more about it. Metal is just something that I happen to be interested in.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

ASupervillain said:


> Not at all, I've registered here because I'm beginning to have a greater appreciation for classical music and this seems like an excellent place to learn more about it. Metal is just something that I happen to be interested in.


I can relate a bit here. I used to be a gigantic metalhead years ago, but today, although I still listen to some death metal (and other metal, and other genres), my love and passion for music is most deeply rooted in classical.

As Aramis commented... Well yeah there have been numerous people stop by this site and talk about metal and comparisons with classical. This is probably one of the reasons many people don't respond to threads such as this one (this is a classical music site after all).

If you're beginning to have a greater appreciation for classical music, I'd encourage you to check out some of the recommendation threads on this forum.

I will offer a piece of advice for starting with classical music. Although you're into death metal, which is really heavy, brash, intense (etc.), I wouldn't advise you to only seek music classical composers who are known for those same characteristics. Instead I would encourage you to check out a variety of different works.. different genres such as symphonies, piano trios, solo piano pieces, etc.... different eras such as Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Contemporary etc... You might (will?) find you enjoy something you don't know about.


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