# Recommendations for non-operatic vocal music



## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I can appreciate PARTS of certain operas, mostly choruses and some arias, but in general I find the solo voices painful to listen to - even in a good quality recording - still sounds like bellowing men and screeching women to me, no matter how good the tune or how highly-regarded the singer. And the filler (dialogue sung with no disernable tune at all) between arias and choruses just sounds a little silly to my ears. It's all too overly dramatic.

One of my favourite pieces is Orff's Carmina Burana though - all of it - since the singing doesn't have that same painful over-the-top quality to it - it's more playful and fun. And I love Dawn Upshaw's singing on Gorecki's 3rd, and some interpretations of Mahler's 2nd - I can appreciate the solo female voice if it's delivered gently and sensitively.

So, given that, what other vocal works should I be getting into? Any recommendations?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

You can hear samples here.

It's William Christie; it's Les Arts Florissants; it's Sophie Daneman; and it's Patricia Petibon. It doesn't get better than that. The 'Troisieme Lecon' where they're both singing together is particularly beautiful (tracks 13 to 22). Guaranteed entirely screech free, and balm for the soul.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Hi jezbo,

You could also try:










Samples here:

http://www.amazon.com/Pergolesi-Sta...d_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239103599&sr=8-3

Apart from that, you get a different style of singing in medieval music - very soothing and "balmy". For example Hildegard von Bingen:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_m?url=search-alias=popular&field-keywords=bingen&x=0&y=0


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

The Baroque & Medieval singing style is easier on the ears to be sure. I have heard the Pergolesi before and like it. I'm also getting into Handel's Acis & Galatea. 

Any recommendations for later periods? I'm more drawn to the later 19th & 20th century stuff.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

20th century:

Ramirez - Misa Criolla
Andreas Scholl - The Best of Andreas Scholl (includes a piece by Jocelyn Pook)

19th century and earlier:

Berlioz - Requiem 
Beethoven - Missa Solemnis
Mozart - Mass in C Minor

As far as opera is concerned, you could also give a chance to:

Berlioz - Les Troyens, Damnation de Faust
Delibes - Lakme
Dvorak - Rusalka
Gounod - Faust
Rimsky-Korsakov - Sadko


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

jezbo said:


> And the filler (dialogue sung with no disernable tune at all) between arias and choruses just sounds a little silly to my ears.


_Recitatives_. They are sung, actually, and written in the score with musical notation.

I suggest song cycles by Gustav Mahler, like Lieder eines fahrenden gesellen, Kindertotenlieder and the Rückert-lieder.






And you may recognize the tune from this one:






Hermann Prey was definitely a jewel.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Mozart's Concert arias in a Decca box set are sheer delight. Worth every penny of their low price.

Jim


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jezbo said:


> Any recommendations for later periods? I'm more drawn to the later 19th & 20th century stuff.


I've talked about this so often on this forum that I'm almost afraid to mention it again, but:










Ignore the _Coronation Ode_ - that's not why I'm recommending this. This disc is worth having purely for the wonderful, but incomprehensibly neglected, _The Spirit of England_; furthermore, this is _the_ version to get; no one sings this like Teresa Cahill. You can hear samples here (the last three), but the selections are badly chosen and don't give an adequate impression of the work. (The CD is so cheap that you can't go wrong, really.)


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Anything by:

Léonin, Pérotin, Vitry, Machaut, Dunstable, Dufay, Ockeghem, Josquin, Obrecht, Tallis, Palestrina, Lassus, Byrd or Victoria.


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Beethoven's Choral Fantasy in C minor
Rachmaninoff's _The Bells_

(Not sure how you would personally classify incidental music relative to opera, but....)

Beethoven's _Ruins of Athens, King Stephen, & Egmont_
Grieg's _Peer Gynt_ (some really good vocal passages)


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## hdk132 (Mar 18, 2009)

faure requium
winterreise (bostridge, don't worry he's a great singer, no bellowey mush)


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I'll be trying some of these out folks - many thanks.


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## xJuanx (Feb 24, 2009)




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## tenor02 (Jan 4, 2008)

check out some Randall Z Stroope (more traditional chorus works), Eric Whitacre (very popular rising musician in the choral world, very cutting edge) Morten Lauridsen (sounds similar to whitacre, not as daring imo) and Moses Hogan (american spiritual) if you're looking for some more contemporary music. If it's the vibrato that you dont like, Whitacre and Morten Lauridsen have some really good pieces out

Stroope:




 (my favorite tbh)
and 




one of my favorite whitacre pieces:





and while not my favorite, this one from Lauridsen seems to be the most popular: 




and Hogan:




or


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Faure: Requiem, Durufle: Requiem: Atlanta Symphony Orch. & Chorus, Robert Shaw, Telarc:










Berlioz: Requiem, London Symphony Orch., Sir Colin Davis, Philips:










Vaughan Williams: A Sea Symphony, London Philharmonic, Sir Adrian Boult, EMI:










Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms, Berlin Philharmonic, Pierre Boulez, Deutsche Grammophon:










Mahler: Symphony No. 8 "Symphony Of A Thousand," Chicago Symphony Orch, Georg Solti, Decca (there are MANY different versions of this symphony, but this is one of the best):










This should keep you busy for a while.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Herzeleide said:


> Anything by:
> 
> Léonin, Pérotin, Vitry, Machaut, Dunstable, Dufay, Ockeghem, Josquin, Obrecht, Tallis, Palestrina, Lassus, Byrd or Victoria.


That's what you're recommending for someone who likes Carmina Burana and Gorecki's third?


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

I live in hope...


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Zeus did not want man to throw his life away, no matter how much the other evils might torment him, but rather to go on letting himself be tormented anew. To that end, he gives man hope. In truth, it is the most evil of evils because it prolongs man's torment.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> Ramirez - *Misa Criolla*


I also recommend this excellent work. It's usually coupled with Ramirez's _*Navidad Nuestra*_, which similarly uses Argentinian folk idioms and instruments; and Guido Haazen's _*Missa Luba*_, which does a similar thing with Congolese traditions.

These are available on Naxos, but also on another label which has Jose Carreras among the perfromers.


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## Cyclops (Mar 24, 2008)

jezbo said:


> I can appreciate PARTS of certain operas, mostly choruses and some arias, but in general I find the solo voices painful to listen to - even in a good quality recording - still sounds like bellowing men and screeching women to me, no matter how good the tune or how highly-regarded the singer. And the filler (dialogue sung with no disernable tune at all) between arias and choruses just sounds a little silly to my ears. It's all too overly dramatic.
> 
> One of my favourite pieces is Orff's Carmina Burana though - all of it - since the singing doesn't have that same painful over-the-top quality to it - it's more playful and fun. And I love Dawn Upshaw's singing on Gorecki's 3rd, and some interpretations of Mahler's 2nd - I can appreciate the solo female voice if it's delivered gently and sensitively.
> 
> So, given that, what other vocal works should I be getting into? Any recommendations?


I'm glad I'm not the only one(tho I must admit that one of the operas featured in Amadeus did appeal to me) 
This thread is just what I'm looking for actually as I'm currently listening to Faure's Requiem and wanting recommendations of similar music,particularly the Agnes Dei,gorgeous!(what does that mean by the way,something concerning god?)


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jezbo said:


> I'm also getting into Handel's Acis & Galatea.


How did that experiment go? If you continued to enjoy it, then it's worth trying this:










It has lots of passages with that lovely, delicate pastoral feel, and some of the arias are very moving indeed - screech-free and delectable. My favourite listening, at the moment. It takes the form of a gentle debate between the life of contemplation and the life of mirth and jollity, and concludes amicably by promoting moderation in all things!

Also it happens to be offered at half price in the Hyperion half-price Handel sale right now.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I do enjoy it, it's a nice "light relief" from my usual heavier classical sessions.


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## HerrSchnaufer (Jun 1, 2009)

xJuanx said:


>


Yes. Excellent suggestion. If you can get your hands on the 1954 Winchester Cathedral version, it's brilliant. I bought it on vinyl a few years back, and I think it's my favourite record of all time.



JTech82 said:


> Mahler: Symphony No. 8 "Symphony Of A Thousand," Chicago Symphony Orch, Georg Solti, Decca (there are MANY different versions of this symphony, but this is one of the best):


Disagree here. LSO have just released a version, and whist I find Mahler 8 hideously difficult, I think they nail it pretty well.










As for other suggestions, Durufle's requiem is gorgeous, as are the four motets (although Tota Pulchra Es isn't up with the others imo - maybe that's just because I'm a bass though).

Faure's requiem obviously, the Cantique de Jean Racine is also gorgeous.

If you want something a bit different, a little odd, why not try Britten's Rejoice in the Lamb. The lyrics are taken from an epic text written by a crazy guy called Christopher Smart. He was in a mental home back in the day, and would have seen people being subject to all sorts of torture. This is back in the days when it was assumed people who were dumb were just being stubborn, and a common method of trying to make them speak was to force water up their nose. All sorts of horrible things, hence lyrics like "For I am under the same accusation with my Saviour ... for the officers of the peace are at variance with me, for silly fellow is against me".

Britten does an exquisitely brilliant job of capturing the feel of the text, and portrays it through his music quite wonderfully.

Best recording of this I've come across has to be on the St. John's English Choral Music Britten CD.










There are a whole host of choral anthems I could suggest, but it might be easier for you to give us a more specific idea of exactly what sort of choral music you like?

You've said more recent stuff, so I've intentionally left the wonders of Byrd and his masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices out (though they are certainly worth listening to), Tallis, Palestrina and all the other old greats, but are you more of a bleeding heart Faure romantic, or a pomp and circumstance Elgar fanatic?

Just give us some sort of direction ...


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I do like the ancient spritual choral music a la Faure, Pergolesi, Palestrina etc, and even more modern sacred music like Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms, but can only take so much of this, and have to be in the right mood. 

What I was originally after was more in the same vein as Orff's Carmina Burana (as discussed), and Prokofiev's Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution I've just discovered also. The former is a great mix of energetic choruses with heavy orchestral emphasis broken up with slower passages of heart-stopping beauty and others of just plain happy fun music! More like that please! 

For me, there's too much of an emphasis on the drama in Opera (Verdi etc), with the singers drawing attention to themselves rather than the music. I have found a modern opera I like recently though - John Adams' Nixon in China.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

BassClef: An opera you may like is Suor Angelica. The mood isn't as over the top and dramatic as other operas. It's a one act opera by Puccini, part of the "Il Trittico" set. It's all female vocals as it takes place in a convent. It's a very accessible opera (in my opinion, I'm quite new to the genre) And my favorite so far.

Sorry...I know that's not what you asked for, just thought I'd throw it out there.


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## trillian (Aug 16, 2010)

definitely gustav mahler. 
i love wunderhorn songs (esp. the one used as the last movement of mahler 4), and lieder eines fahrenden gesellen, kindertotenlieder, ruckert-lieder as were already mentioned before. oh and of course das lied von der erde.

gergiev's mahler symphonies are quite 'not emotional'. i havent listened to his 8 but the others are too 'calm' for me somehow.

schoenberg's gurre-lieder is also very nice.


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## Lyricsop (Oct 21, 2010)

bassClef said:


> I can appreciate PARTS of certain operas, mostly choruses and some arias, but in general I find the solo voices painful to listen to - even in a good quality recording - still sounds like bellowing men and screeching women to me, no matter how good the tune or how highly-regarded the singer. And the filler (dialogue sung with no disernable tune at all) between arias and choruses just sounds a little silly to my ears. It's all too overly dramatic.
> 
> One of my favourite pieces is Orff's Carmina Burana though - all of it - since the singing doesn't have that same painful over-the-top quality to it - it's more playful and fun. And I love Dawn Upshaw's singing on Gorecki's 3rd, and some interpretations of Mahler's 2nd - I can appreciate the solo female voice if it's delivered gently and sensitively.
> 
> So, given that, what other vocal works should I be getting into? Any recommendations?


It sounds to me like you aren't finding the right singers to listen too because a great singer won't screech on the high notes in fact there will be a melodic meld through out the interpretation which will stir deep emotion within you when you hear what is known as the money note if it is done correctly. If correct technique is applied a myriad of emotions will overwhelm you waking senses that you thought didn't exsist much like a violin virtuoso who has spent years honing his or her craft. A great opera singer is never over the top, never over dramatic there are no bellowing men and no screeching 
women.

Usually if the singer bellows or screeches it is because either they haven't honed their technique enough and they aren't applying proper techniques. The Resitive which is the small talk isn't supposed to have a discernible tune because the audience couldn't follow the transition from Aria into Resitive back to Aria if it did, think of the Resitive as a break between Aria's much like a violin composition which also possesses the same two aria voice parts and the background Resitive. A Resitive is normally sung off cords which accounts for a lack of a discernible tune but the cords still harmonically and melodically match the composition even though it isn't real apparent that they do.

You may want to find a great opera company and attend a performance with seasoned professional Opera singers such as the San Fransisco Opera Company, The Washington D.C. Opera Company, The Toronto Opera Company and or the London Opera Company if any of these are near enough to you. If you do decide to attend an opera performance try sitting in the Messiaen rather than sitting up front and close to the performance. By sitting in the Balcony section you will appreciate the quality of the opera and the quality of voice of the singers much better than if you sat up front.

If you decide to attend an opera performance make sure that you research what the opera is about because this will help you to better understand what the composers' vision is and what story he is having the characters convey to the audience. It can be overwhelming when attending an opera if you have never read the history of the opera and if you don't speak the language of the opera, which in this case which can appear silly and over the top to individuals who have never read the story of the opera they are attending nor do they speak the language of that opera. I would also recommend that you consider attending a few orchestra performances which will help you to understand why a composer, composes a composition the way that he did and why there are the main phrases or what is known as Aria's and the underlying phrases which will call Resistives- also study the history of the composer's work for the orchestra performance which you are planning on attending this will be helpful to you as far as not confusing you as to how the movement transitions from one phrase into the other and where the background underlying harmonic phrase differs from the main melodic and harmonic phrases throughout the arrangement.

From having sung opera for seven years, there are reasons why a singer applying correct technique sings with different modulative tonalities. A tender and gentle tonality implies: sadness, rich warmness, empathy and joy while a more assertive, stronger controlled voice tonality implies: darkness, foreboding, ill intent, forcefulness, etc.. which is normal in both male and female voice parts. Again, I beating the violin to death but it is my favorite instrument because it comes as close to a human voice as any instrument that I have ever heard.

I would recommend listening to violinists such as YO-YO Ma, Izak Perelman, Joshua Bell and Maxim Vengerov to fully understand what each intent-i.e. gentle and tender as well as an assertive stronger controlled voice part sounds like so that you can make the comparison to a human singers' voice. You might actually be one of those rare people like I am who hears the overtones of a singer's voice and this is what you don't like about their voice.

I hear overtones so well that I can tell a chorale director when a piano is out of tune before they know that it is, based on how out of tune the overtones in the piano are. I also have to be careful when singing in a choir because I will hear every voice parts' over tones and I have to really try to tune out everyone else's overtones so that I'm singing my part right, tuning out overtones isn't easy to due.

Here is a recording of the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah by The Swandincote Messiah Chorale Society in the Hill Street Baptist Church which I thought might be of interest to you.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Had I been around when this question was raised, I would have recommended Brahms' Alto Rhapsody. I don't know why, but the combination of female voice with male chorus or male voice with female chorus is unbelievably appealing to me.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Cyclops said:


> I'm currently listening to Faure's Requiem and wanting recommendations of similar music,particularly the Agnes Dei,gorgeous!(what does that mean by the way,something concerning god?)


Agnus Dei = Lamb of God; part of the Catholic liturgy.


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

This version of Allegri: Miserere by the Tallis Scholars is one of the most beautiful vocal works I've ever heard. The note the female singer hits at approximately 1:50 into this, is chill inducing.






They also perform the piece on this 2 disc set, which is worth adding to your collection.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I am just the opposite, choral music has generally sounded like a lot of noise to me, and that may be because they tend to sing very loud relative to the rest of the work. However, the more I listen I am getting used to it. I recently got a copy of Beethoven's Choral Fantasy and like it very much. Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is very good too. 

As for operas, Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov was recommended to me many years ago by my uncle becauese, as he said, it was the only good opera, that all the rest have a lot of screechy female voices. But you don't want Boris, too dramatic of vocals. Stick with the Missa Solemnis. The Choral Fantasy only has singing in the third of three parts, but it is very nice.

Also Handel's Messiah is excellent. And my favorite vocal work, the 4th movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.


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