# Use of Motifs in Opera Before Wagner



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Mozart's Die Zauberflöte is a well-known example, but I think the "through-composed" Erwin und Elmire (premiered in Berlin, early 1793) by Reichardt also has some noteworthy "uses of motifs". (By "through-composed", I mean all the numbers, consisting of arias, accompagnatos, lieder, ensembles, are connected without breaks). I think that each of the characters has a distinct "quality" (or "impression") in his/her numbers. I think one of the elements that make this possible is the use of distinct phrase figures associated with each character.








Act I. Aria. Erwin! O schau, du wirst gerochen (Elmire): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye06cbLrEi8&t=2m9s








Act II. Aria. Mit vollen Athemzügen saug' ich, natur aus dir (Elmire): www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsh7xnPS4bw&t=2m21s

Likewise, I think the character Valerio also has a distinct quality to his numbers, but I can't point out specifically at the moment what makes them so.
Act I. Aria. Ein Schauspiel für Götter (Valerio): www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3plw1EbkI&t=56s
Act II. Accompagnato. Nein, es ist nicht genung (Valerio): www.youtube.com/watch?v=96MltFHiUyo&t=47s



The ensemble of the very end of the opera, resembles (in motifs) that of the very beginning, as if to signify a resolution.
Act I. Duet. Wie schön und wie herrlich (Rosa, Valerio): www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cim4uO5Fuvo&t=1m12s
Act II. Finale. Es ist nicht weit! (Elmire, Rosa, Erwin): www.youtube.com/watch?v=acImX9fMxro&t=37s 

There is also a resolution on a "smaller scale" than this. These consecutive numbers are the only two in the opera that contain the stylistic figures, —








Act I. Aria. Erwin! O schau, du wirst gerochen (Elmire): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye06cbLrEi8&t=1m4s








Act I. Trio. Ich muß, ich muß ihn sehen (Elmire, Rosa, Valerio): www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e2li0Xfz_Y&t=35s
—, as if the depression and angst of the aria resolve in the subsequent ensemble.




So yeah. Feel free to discuss other things that you think are "Use of Motifs in Opera Before Wagner".


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This is an interesting topic, partly because it raises questions of what characteristics a musical resemblance needs to have in order to constitute a motif, and to be entitled to special notice. In _The Magic Flute_ the five-note rising scale played by the flute and the solemn ceremonial chords that occur in the overture and then in Sarastro's realm are clear-cut examples of motifs which identify specific elements in the plot. They are musically distinctive, and are not forgotten once heard. I would guess there are musical reminiscences in other pre-Wagnerian operas, resemblances less memorable and perhaps even accidental, which don't have a clear dramatic function, but might at most perpetuate a certain mood. Reminiscences can also have a structural function; Monteverdi, for example, uses the instrumental ritornello in _L'Orfeo _between scenes.

I'm not aware of any instances in opera before Wagner of motifs being used quasi-symphonically, as basic thematic material for development, with their permutations expressing developments in character and story.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"... the brief, recurrent phrase pervading the score, changing its form, instrumentation, harmonization, and rhythm as it develops its ever new-associations. On the first page of the overture we hear of these. It is a five-note descending figure:








It soon comes to dominate the overture, depicting the Sturm und Drang, the storm and stress of the sea-music. A few pages later, it reappears in the recitative, as Ilia remembers the fall of Troy, and it appears again in the accompaniment to the aria that follows. Then when Ilia's beloved, Idamante, tells her that he will make her forget her past sufferings, it appears again, much brighter in color. It recurs quietly when King Idomeneo comes safely to land, and a moment later it accompanies his realization that now he will have to keep his vow to the sea god, and sacrifice to him the first living thing he finds on shore. It recurs once again when he looks fatefully on that victim, his own son, and the son doesn't understand why his father tears himself away from his embrace.

The English critic David Cairns has suggested that by this time the theme has come to bear associations both of nature's cruelty and of our own inner sufferings. In Act II it forms part of the musical line of the powerful aria "Fuor del mar," where Idomeneo sings of both the storm at sea and the storm within himself. It then hovers over the little duet of the two lovers in Act III. And it reappears when Idomeneo finally tells his subjects that he must sacrifice his own son. ..." 
(pages 8~9 from <First Intermissions: Twenty-One Great Operas Explored, Explained, and Brought to Life from the Met> by M. Owen Lee)


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

This is super interesting topic... tell me guys if you want to make a video about it. We may post it in youtube. I can help with the animation and editing. You may post it in your channel if you want....


My dream is to spread classical music to the whole world !

Luv all of u


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I am hiding this redundant text under


Spoiler



Reminiscences are a different thing than leitmotifs. I think our teacher at opera class told us, they appeared in baroque already - I can ask.

Since I do not know mature Wagner, I don't understand so well, what the leitmotifs are, but my impression is, they are more interspersed throughout the opera or an opera cycle, slightly changing form, but the melody is still recognizable ? You guys tell me 

Bellini used reminiscences in several operas. In Il pirata, first act, Imogene tells her confidante about the bad dream she had that night. Near the finale of the opera, Imogene has a mad scene, and the music returns, because she is "living" that bad dream now. Norma worries about the children in the first act, and that melody returns in the finale - she remembers them and begs her father to protect them. In La Sonnambula, Elvino gives Amina the engagement ring in the first act, and the melody returns in the sleepwalking scene, where she is sad that it doesn't belong to her anymore.

Now this is weirder:


 and I will appreciate any insights on Norma:

A musicologist Paul Dorgan believes, *Bellini in Norma used musical keys instead of leitmotifs *! So the G major is the druidic key. (Even Casta diva was originally written in it). After Norma's confession, she is a proper druid again, but humbled, so her dominant key becomes a relative minor to G major (=E minor). Adalgisa also has her musical key (Bb major). I would be happy if someone could verify it for me, because the keys change frequently, also within the same aria, so it should be about the dominant keys. The relevant texts are here and here.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Doesn't this part of the Der Hölle Rache,




remind you of the fast section of the overture?


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Edit: I need to read more carefully again, maybe I am repeating what you gyus wrote already.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> "... the brief, recurrent phrase pervading the score, changing its form, instrumentation, harmonization, and rhythm as it develops its ever new-associations. On the first page of the overture we hear of these. It is a five-note descending figure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's obviously helpful to say what composer and work you're describing. It's the opera _Idomeneo_ by Mozart.

In this late opera, filled with powerfully dramatic music, Mozart might be moving toward the idea of giving a recurring motif a dramatic meaning beyond simple reminiscence. Or, he may be interested mainly in musical integration and continuity. It's hard to tell. That little figure you quote crops up in every number for about the first 20 minutes of the opera, and I can't say that it's clear to me why it does except to bind the opening scene together musically, to give it cohesion and unity and contribute to a turbulent mood. It isn't a "theme" that carries with it any specificity of expression. It seems merely energetic or, when repeated over and over, agitated. To say that that little melodic figure "dominates the overture" is overstating the case; it isn't clear that it's intended to represent anything in particular in the general turbulence. It doesn't announce itself as especially significant. It's just there. Moving forward, the motif doesn't really appear in Ilia's opening recitative. It does appear in her aria, but it hasn't acquired the sort of associations that would allow its appearance to carry any particular meaning beyond its inherent turbulence. Thus far in the opera it would seem merely to represent - or rather to express - agitation and stress.

When I say that "Mozart might be moving toward the idea of giving a recurring motif a dramatic meaning beyond simple reminiscence," I imply that I don't really hear him doing that in a more than rudimentary way. But everything has to start somewhere.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

“The Geisterinsel is a masterpiece of poetry and language: nothing more musical could be imagined.” -Goethe


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

+








at 0:23, the pantomime resembles the choral passage of the "Schmachtend floh ich aus der Zelle" (which occurs at 9:48 in it).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> It's obviously helpful to say what composer and work you're describing. It's the opera _Idomeneo_ by Mozart.


Yeah, it's an excerpt from pages 8~9 of <First Intermissions: Twenty-One Great Operas Explored, Explained, and Brought to Life from the Met> by M. Owen Lee


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Tarneem said:


> This is super interesting topic... tell me guys if you want to make a video about it.


sure, kinda like this-


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

hammeredklavier said:


> sure, kinda like this-



why so complicated.... may be we make one like this

_youtube video: Mozart’s Most Motivically Masterful Minuet: K. 464 String Quartet in A, Mvt. 2_







I love the content of this channel even though I don't understand all the videos lol


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> It isn't a "theme" that carries with it any specificity of expression.
> To say that that little melodic figure "dominates the overture" is overstating the case; it isn't clear that it's intended to represent anything in particular in the general turbulence.
> It does appear in her aria, but it hasn't acquired the sort of associations that would allow its appearance to carry any particular meaning beyond its inherent turbulence. Thus far in the opera it would seem merely to represent - or rather to express - agitation and stress.


I think you're right. M. Owen Lee, in that excerpt (from his book <First Intermissions: Twenty-One Great Operas Explored, Explained, and Brought to Life from the Met>), seems to exaggerate some things about the Mozart seria.
Here are some other things said in those pages (p. 8~10)-

"... The most famous of the Wagnerian methods of continuity is the leitmotif ... a hundred years before Wagner's Tristan, Mozart, in Idomeneo, experimented with something quite similar ..."

"... And it reappears when Idomeneo finally tells his subjects that he must sacrifice his own son. There it leads to a passage of more chromatic intensity than anyone had ever heard in an opera house before. ..."

"... Though there are similarly complex pages in Scarlatti and a few earlier composers, Mozart's is by common consent the first great ensemble in opera, a forerunner of the trio in Der Rosenkavalier, the quartet in Rigoletto, the quintet in Die Meistersinger. ..."

I mean, does the author even know this thing from 1769 and its _harmonies_-




(@Becca, I did "it" _way too soon _again. Couldn't help it, sorry.)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I would guess there are musical reminiscences in other pre-Wagnerian operas, resemblances less memorable and perhaps even accidental, which don't have a clear dramatic function, but might at most perpetuate a certain mood. Reminiscences can also have a structural function; Monteverdi, for example, uses the instrumental ritornello in _L'Orfeo _between scenes.


Heres an (interesting) excerpt from "Motives for Allusion: Context and Content in Nineteenth-century Music" by Christopher Alan Reynolds, Page 46—
"... Mozart understood the procedure of associating motives with people or dramatic states within a single work already in _Idomeneo_ (1781). Among those who could have influenced Mozart are Gluck and Johann Friedrich Reichardt. In two melodramas from the 1770s, Reichardt developed an incipient form of leitmotiv, devising musical expressions of moods and ideas that recurred whenever justified by the drama rather than according to considerations of musical form. Long before Wagner, he described the process in his widely circulated _Musikalisches Kunstmagazin_ (1782). The Greek tragedies _Prokris und Cephalus_ and _Ino_ initially appealed to him as subjects for melodramas because they allowed him to create an individual musical theme "for each passion, for each shading of passion," and in so doing, "to bring more unity to the whole." Both in practice and in theory, Reichardt was an important precedent for Wagner, who also credited his motivic technique for fostering a musical unity ..." (Motives for Allusion)


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