# Freaky Opera Staging



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Why is it that the staging in many, if not most, operas appears to be completely off-the-walls crazy? I don't mind a little experimental "WTF?" every now and then, but I think that should be the exception rather than the rule. Lately it seems like everything I run across just seems weird and out of place!

For example, I recently saw a production of Tristan and Isolde that took place on a nuclear submarine. I saw a production of Handel's Rinaldo where, rather than a knight in the crusades, he was portrayed as an angsty teenager in some sort of weird Hogwarts-esque high school. I saw a production of Handel's Julius Caesar that took place during some sort of dystopian alternate-reality World War 2 and didn't have anything to do with Caesar at all! I saw a production of La Traviata that took place inside of a friggin' clock! The music in all of those was absolutely amazing, but I almost had to close my eyes to block out all of the freaky-deaky stuff going on on stage in all of those.

It's rare that I find an opera production that's actually true to the original story and period. I can't be the only one who likes a little historical accuracy in his historical music! You can definitely make the argument that it's been done that way before, but not everyone has seen or experienced it that way before.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Stargazer said:


> Why is it that the staging in many, if not most, operas appears to be completely off-the-walls crazy? I don't mind a little experimental "WTF?" every now and then, but I think that should be the exception rather than the rule. Lately it seems like everything I run across just seems weird and out of place!
> 
> For example, I recently saw a production of Tristan and Isolde that took place on a nuclear submarine. I saw a production of Handel's Rinaldo where, rather than a knight in the crusades, he was portrayed as an angsty teenager in some sort of weird Hogwarts-esque high school. I saw a production of Handel's Julius Caesar that took place during some sort of dystopian alternate-reality World War 2 and didn't have anything to do with Caesar at all! I saw a production of La Traviata that took place inside of a friggin' clock! The music in all of those was absolutely amazing, but I almost had to close my eyes to block out all of the freaky-deaky stuff going on on stage in all of those.
> 
> It's rare that I find an opera production that's actually true to the original story and period. I can't be the only one who likes a little historical accuracy in his historical music! You can definitely make the argument that it's been done that way before, but not everyone has seen or experienced it that way before.


Yak that one, Rigoletto in Las Vegas atrocious the list is endless, classic staging any day please.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Say, you forgot about the bumblebee people, and the bare assed men at urinals, and the faux fornicating semi-nude men, and ... I could go on but I'm getting sick.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Stargazer said:


> It's rare that I find an opera production that's actually true to the original story and period. I can't be the only one who likes a little historical accuracy in his historical music! You can definitely make the argument that it's been done that way before, but not everyone has seen or experienced it that way before.


Should we also re-write _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ for historical accuracy? Or maybe _Rinaldo_, set during a historical period but not otherwise based on reality? If you're looking for historical accuracy you don't go to _La Gerusalemme liberata_ or, even worse, an opera based on it.

I have seen Laurent Pelly's staging of _La fille du régiment_. It was set circa World War 1, rather than the early 19th-century. This does not work historically - the French were not in Tyrol at that time - but that historical setting is not important for the plot, which is basically a romantic comedy. And even when the piece is set in the first decade of the 19th century the plot is a little far-fetched.

There are many examples of operas set in various locations for pure exoticism. If we ask for historical accuracy with _Les pêcheurs de perles_, does that mean completely re-writing the plot and changing the attitudes of the characters? Moving this opera to 18th or 19th-century France would make a whole lot more sense of the plot and the attitudes of the characters than leaving it in ancient Ceylon.

Relatedly, there are also quite a few examples of opera composers and librettists moving around the settings of their opera late in the game, either to avoid problems with the censors or for other reasons. And they'd do so without changing much more than proper names (if even that much).

Though that is rare. And it is more often that the composer and librettist were able to present what they wanted. And I understanding wanting to respect that, but I don't find it disrespectful to not follow every stage direction. (I find it disrespectful to not think about what you're doing; "traditional" productions can also be thoughtless). I don't understand limiting an opera by only presenting it only one way.

One thing alternate costuming and settings can do is make the story accessible to a new group of people. New settings and connections can also help bring out different aspects of the opera. Personally I don't expect any opera staging to convey everything, and actively search out seeing different productions and performances as part of exploring an opera. Putting an opera in a different setting can encourage us to think about how the story works, what the character relationships are and why they are important.

Of course these stagings don't always work, or, rather, don't always work for everyone. But the same can be said for doing it entirely as written.


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## Nevilevelis (Dec 23, 2015)

mountmccabe said:


> Should we also re-write _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ for historical accuracy? Or maybe _Rinaldo_, set during a historical period but not otherwise based on reality? If you're looking for historical accuracy you don't go to _La Gerusalemme liberata_ or, even worse, an opera based on it.
> 
> I have seen Laurent Pelly's staging of _La fille du régiment_. It was set circa World War 1, rather than the early 19th-century. This does not work historically - the French were not in Tyrol at that time - but that historical setting is not important for the plot, which is basically a romantic comedy. And even when the piece is set in the first decade of the 19th century the plot is a little far-fetched.
> 
> ...


Here, here! It's not a bible. Your points are very well made. An open mind has many guests.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The Pearl Fishers were originally intended to be set in Mexico. I think Ceylon is more exciting for the exotism than France.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> Should we also re-write _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ for historical accuracy? Or maybe _Rinaldo_, set during a historical period but not otherwise based on reality? If you're looking for historical accuracy you don't go to _La Gerusalemme liberata_ or, even worse, an opera based on it.
> 
> I have seen Laurent Pelly's staging of _La fille du régiment_. It was set circa World War 1, rather than the early 19th-century. This does not work historically - the French were not in Tyrol at that time - but that historical setting is not important for the plot, which is basically a romantic comedy. And even when the piece is set in the first decade of the 19th century the plot is a little far-fetched.
> 
> ...


To expand a little on that... "Historical accuracy" in an opera production doesn't necessarily mean fidelity to the era in which the opera's story is set. As mountmccabe rightly points out, that would have some ridiculous results in some cases. Sometimes operas aren't even set in definite historical periods, or they're set in a period that's highly Romanticized or innacurately presented by the librettist and composer (this is more or less the norm for opera, I'd say), or their settings are completely fantastic and ahistorical. A historically accurate production really needs to be faithful only to the essential vision and sensibility of the composer, whether or not that has anything to do with the way things really looked at a specific place and time.

All I require in a production is artistic integrity: a conception in which the staging is congruent with the music and the words, and presents the dramatic themes of the work in a consistent and comprehensible way. _Un Ballo in Maschera_ was originally set in Sweden, but a European setting made the censors uncomfortable and the opera was then moved to Boston, a locale which I as an American find bizarre. I feel the Swedish setting as more credible, but for all I know Swedes may have problems with it. In any case the music is distinctly Italian, so we'd probably do well not to worry about Sweden or Boston and just base our productions on the dramatic substance of the plot, the meaning of the words, and the qualities of the music. I object only to productions that clash with or undermine these, that hit me over the head with symbolism that overstates the obvious, or that present images and actions that simply puzzle me and distract from my emotional engagement. Unfortunately there are far too many examples of all of these on today's stages.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Un ballo in maschera have status as national opera in Sweden and is always set in Sweden in Swedish productions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Sloe said:


> Un ballo in maschera have status as national opera in Sweden and is always set in Sweden in Swedish productions.


Sounds like the Swedes are grateful to Verdi. As far as I know there's no similar gratitude in Boston, maybe because when the setting was moved to Boston the characters' Swedish names, Gustavus and Ankerstrom, were traded in for Italian names rather than English ones. Maybe there would be more gratitude if the caterers at the ball served baked beans, clam chowder and tonic.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Yak that one, Rigoletto in Las Vegas atrocious the list is endless, classic staging any day please.


weelll i like the one in Vegas.....of course i like vegas the slots-craps-horseracing gir.............er restaurants. been to some of the best


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ldiat said:


> weelll i like the one in Vegas.....of course i like vegas the slots-craps-horseracing gir.............er restaurants. been to some of the best


Shockingly, so did I. I could not believe I was going to walk out of that theater with a smile on my face considering the stupid "Rat pack" premise but I realized something -- that for me, in order to accept a regie production, there must not be any distractions in any way, shape, or form. Nothing that distracts from the singers or the singing. And this production accomplished that feat, which is rare. 
I have a particular respect for the composer's and librettist's wishes. If some hubristic "drecktor" wishes to show off his writing prowess, let him invent his own instead of purloining from the great artists of the past.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ldiat said:


> weelll i like the one in Vegas.....of course i like vegas the slots-craps-horseracing gir.............er restaurants. been to some of the best


Take your change and writhe a opera about it.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Take your change and writhe a opera about it.


ristoranti mangiare 1st aria "mio primo cena"


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Pugg said:


> Don Carlos
> 
> In cinema live from Paris.
> 
> https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/season-17-18/opera/don-carlos


I've seen this one last night, the singing was almost outstanding but the staging........


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## neofite (Feb 19, 2017)

This is a timely topic. A major concern of a friend who is composing an opera is that any future performances, should the work actually survive through and beyond its debut, utilize staging (e.g., historical period, architecture, costumes, lighting) as intended. 

Is there any way to ensure fidelity to the composer's desire? For example, could such staging be intimately woven into the music and libretto so as to make it difficult to change it? Or could copyright restrictions protect the original, at least for the century or so duration of the copyright?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Pugg said:


> I've seen this one last night, the singing was almost outstanding but the staging........


How was Yoncheva? 
I liked her as Iris.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> Sounds like the Swedes are grateful to Verdi. As far as I know there's no similar gratitude in Boston, maybe because when the setting was moved to Boston the characters' Swedish names, Gustavus and Ankerstrom, were traded in for Italian names rather than English ones. Maybe there would be more gratitude if the caterers at the ball served baked beans, clam chowder and tonic.


I(n Karajan's recording of Ballo the opera is set back in Sweden with original names. I don't know if any other recording does this.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> *All I require in a production is artistic integrity: a conception in which the staging is congruent with the music and the words, and presents the dramatic themes of the work in a consistent and comprehensible way.* _Un Ballo in Maschera_ was originally set in Sweden, but a European setting made the censors uncomfortable and the opera was then moved to Boston, a locale which I as an American find bizarre. I feel the Swedish setting as more credible, but for all I know Swedes may have problems with it. In any case the music is distinctly Italian, so we'd probably do well not to worry about Sweden or Boston and just base our productions on the dramatic substance of the plot, the meaning of the words, and the qualities of the music. I object only to productions that clash with or undermine these, that hit me over the head with symbolism that overstates the obvious, or that present images and actions that simply puzzle me and distract from my emotional engagement. Unfortunately there are far too many examples of all of these on today's stages.


Agree wholeheartedly. The question is does the direction serve the composer's intention or is it something imposed by some hack which militates against it. When I saw the Met Falstaff (set in Elizabeth II England in 1950s) it was thoroughly enjoyable as the producer was taking a new slant AND being faithful to Verdi. I'll be interested to see the Met Cosi fan Tutte which looks a modern concept. It is fidelity to the conception not fidelity in detail which is required.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Sloe said:


> How was Yoncheva?
> I liked her as Iris.


Alas she was the weakest kink, she almost killed the role, sharp sound and nothing graceful at all.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Pugg said:


> Alas she was the weakest kink, she almost killed the role, sharp sound and nothing graceful at all.


Oh bad.
Fifteen characters


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Pugg said:


> Yak that one, Rigoletto in Las Vegas atrocious the list is endless, classic staging any day please.


 I didn't mind the Las Vegas Rigoletto . It didn't interfere with the story and wasn't too gimmicky. The craziest Rigoletto production I've heard of was the one in Munich several years ago done as PLANET OF THE APES -in chimp and gorilla costumes ! Yikes !!!


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Pugg said:


> I've seen this one last night, the singing was almost outstanding but the staging........


I still have spots before my eyes! I stopped watching after the first hour or so and just listened.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

superhorn said:


> I didn't mind the Las Vegas Rigoletto . It didn't interfere with the story and wasn't too gimmicky. The craziest Rigoletto production I've heard of was the one in Munich several years ago done as PLANET OF THE APES -in chimp and gorilla costumes ! Yikes !!!


Nowadays one can't even summon outrage or exclaim, "Incredible!"


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Annied said:


> I still have spots before my eyes! I stopped watching after the first hour or so and just listened.


Someone went to the manager from the cinema, asking if there was something wrong with the transition.


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

The Opera productions of now-a-days are simply a product of there time - we live in a generation dominated by minimialist quality pseudo-intellectual "art", and so any Operas composed in the old days of true Art and intergrity, beauty, amongst many other desirable qualitys, is now subject to the Opera Directors of the days generation which I described, which means most Operas are ethier composed in the modern day, short and shocking for lack of any artistic values, and depraving in its production, which shines through every other staging of even the greatest Operas... not even Wagner is sacred, and the directors are content to change the entire libretto if they could to suit the demands of the brainwashed masses for there own greed and to maximise profits, but instead just the staging and costumes are altered... "for now".

Imagine Wagner stagings 100 years from now... the Ring cycle will be politically corrected and take place at a Wedding, where the ring is just a ring, with no power, which is given to Brunnhilde from Siegfried and they live happily ever after, the end.

The problem of gross Opera stagings today is just 1 way in which Art has been forsaken, and greed has corrupted it as it has so many other things... politics, personal gain, selfishness... ect...

but I digress.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

JamieHoldham said:


> not even Wagner is sacred, and the directors are content to change the entire libretto if they could to suit the demands of the brainwashed masses for there own greed and to maximise profits, but instead just the staging and costumes are altered... "for now".


I think you mean especially not Wagner.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

*Comparison*

To be more on the topic, what do you think about these productions of Idomeneo?

Levine 80s (Revamped in 2017 in MetHD) (Jean-Pierre Ponelle)
Norrington 2006


































I recall here how was my first impression of the Idomeneo Levine staging:



Granate said:


> Idomeneo was not that good. Nadine Sierra is terrific though. I had listened to the Gardiner recording with a lot of joy, but for me the *Met staging and half of the cast did't do really well.* We were surprised that prince Idamante was played by a soprano (Alice Coote), as it was originally intended for a tenor castrato. Matthew Polenzani wasn't singing a great Idomeneo either. To be more specific, I expected that the four main singers acted and sung well, but only Nadine Sierra and Elza van den Heever (Elettra) would pass this.
> *I had to eat chocolate to avoid falling asleep in Act II.* 4th out of 4 screenings with the Met Live.
> Libretto-wise, what's up with Ilia narrating for six minutes everything that has happened and everything she feels in the opening scene? Opening narration is sin in script-writing, but theatre is theatre and Mozart is 25 when he premiered this work.


I was very underwhelmed, and I recall exactly the stage directions given to the Idomeneo and Elektra singers. I was baffled. The staged never change except for some curtains.
That was one of my experiences with a Met Traditional staging and the reason why I'm a bit sceptical about wiping out regie-theatre.

So has any of you seen the Norrington 2006 Idomeneo? (it looks like regie-theatre but it's the winner of the 2015 Opera best CD+DVD of TC) Did it win for the music only or you also liked the staging?

Contrary to popular taste here, I quite like a lot the minimalism shown in Salzburg productions of La Traviata and Aida (2004 and 2017). I think it's just my taste and I'm not bringing Netrebko here (leave her aside this time). I have also voiced several times my aproval of the Rat Lohengrin (always if one knows how a traditional one works out).

I'm quite new at watching Opera stagings. Leaving cast away, I'm more focused that the acting and stage directions look believable and not pantomime (Levine-Idomeneo-Style). I guess that is my take.

Also, I do recall this scene (activate English subs)


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## The Wolf (Apr 28, 2017)

Ponnelle...Major Words :clap:

If I remember correctly, his staging of Idomeneo was premiered in Zurich (1980) and later in Cologne, Salzburg, SF & The Met (1983 Premiere). He and Unitel, also contempled to make the film, but his early death cancelled the project, to document all his productions of Mozart in film.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)




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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

superhorn said:


> I didn't mind the Las Vegas Rigoletto . It didn't interfere with the story and wasn't too gimmicky. The craziest Rigoletto production I've heard of was the one in Munich several years ago done as *PLANET OF THE APES* -in chimp and gorilla costumes ! Yikes !!!


Probably made the producer feel at home!


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## Timothy (Jul 19, 2017)

JamieHoldham said:


> most Operas are ethier composed in the modern day, short and shocking for lack of any artistic values, and depraving in its production


Contrary to what you saw, most modern opera productions (however old or new the music is) aren't shocking or depraving enough. There isn't enough to really polarize the audience. They play it too safe with productions nowadays.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Timothy said:


> Contrary to what you saw, most modern opera productions (however old or new the music is) aren't shocking or depraving enough. *There isn't enough to really polarize the audience.* *They play it too safe with productions nowadays.*


Indeed. Safe productions are just so passe. A really modern opera house would pass out semiautomatic weapons at the door so that audiences could adequately express their polarized opinions of the business onstage.


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## Timothy (Jul 19, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Indeed. Safe productions are just so passe. A really modern opera house would pass out semiautomatic weapons at the door so that audiences could adequately express their polarized opinions of the business onstage.


Well I was not thinking in that direction but it would be a massive improvement :lol:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

JamieHoldham said:


> The Opera productions of now-a-days are simply a product of there time - we live in a generation dominated by minimialist quality pseudo-intellectual "art", and so any Operas composed in the old days of true Art and intergrity, beauty, amongst many other desirable qualitys, is now subject to the Opera Directors of the days generation which I described, which means most Operas are ethier composed in the modern day, short and shocking for lack of any artistic values, and depraving in its production, which shines through every other staging of even the greatest Operas... *not even Wagner is sacred*, and the directors are content to change the entire libretto if they could to suit the demands of the brainwashed masses for there own greed and to maximise profits, but instead just the staging and costumes are altered... "for now".
> 
> Imagine Wagner stagings 100 years from now... the Ring cycle will be politically corrected and take place at a Wedding, where the ring is just a ring, with no power, which is given to Brunnhilde from Siegfried and they live happily ever after, the end.
> 
> ...


In my mind Wagner hasn't ever been 'sacred' - but if I see one of his operas I do like it staged to serve what Wagner wrote rather than battling against his intentions.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Sounds like the Swedes are grateful to Verdi. As far as I know there's no similar gratitude in Boston, maybe because when the setting was moved to Boston the characters' Swedish names, Gustavus and Ankerstrom, were traded in for Italian names rather than English ones. Maybe there would be more gratitude if the caterers at the ball served baked beans, clam chowder and tonic.


People get flattered over attention. If you want to be a popular opera composer in a country write an opera set there.
By the way in the Swedish translation Anckarström is count Holberg and count Ribbing is Anckarström.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Here is something really horrible.






For a moment I thought it was written wrong and it was Pagliacci.


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