# What's your winds you up in the world of Classical music?



## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

What really hacks you off-makes you fume/curse/spit feathers?
Here's mine 

1, You get to the concert hall to find out the principle conductor cant be ***** to turn up and instead,the office junior's babysitter will be conducting your favourite masterpiece!

2, The expensive new cd you have been looking forward to hearing, has had so much reverb added in the edit that the last chord is carried over to disc 2, de-SPITE! the fact that you know that the acoustics of the venue it was recorded at are as dry as your maiden aunts's ******!!

3, At the opera the dreaded announcement " The management would like to announce but Miss ( insert soprano here) is indisposed and instead the role of (Whatever) will be sung by Miss Nailsdownablackboardova. No refunds."


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Buying discs of vocal works which provide no texts/translations, especially if the repertoire is rare which makes the texts in English difficult to source elsewhere. To be fair this hasn't happened too often and at least I now recognise certain labels that are likely to omit them.


----------



## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Dear me I mucked up the thread title. Its supposed to read "What winds you up in the world of Classical music?"
Maybe this counts


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Buying discs of vocal works which provide no texts/translations, especially if the repertoire is rare which makes the texts in English difficult to source elsewhere.


Oh, that's a biggie! I have Bach's St. Luke and St. Mark Passions with no text. I'll give credit to the old Naive label; they used to provide the missing words on their website. I mean, if you're too cheap to print the text, at least give it a web page.

Another one is, I finally decide to purchase a one-in-a-million recording, and it's been deleted from the catalogue. Then it pops up on Amazon for 10 times its list price.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Well, sometimes the replacement conductor or performer can be as good as the guy who isn't able to come on the night. Or an exciting discovery, new blood. Didn't Bernstein replace Mitropoulos one night conducting the New York Philharmonic, and the rest is history? Lenny was apparently on fire on the night, he made a huge impact with that concert. So understudies need not be bad or incompetent, as I take you suggesting.

Anyway, in terms of attendance of concerts, these things don't go well with me:

- Audience members who leave at the interval before the second half. I see it as rude to the musicians. Even worse is them leaving during a piece being played (it has happened here, but it's rare as far as I know).

- Sitting next to children at a concert. Sometimes they're ok, some kids are mature enough to be at a concert and not be a problem. But if they are fidgeting all the time, it can disturb me to no end.

- Audience who leave their mobile phones on during the music, even though etiquette is you turn it off. Peeves me off if it rings, and even more if the person answers it (I've not seen the latter, but I do know if it happening). Very rude and arrogant.

Things that can turn out good:

- A program change if it is addition of more music that you did not expect. This happens rarely, but it sometimes does happen. Including putting things in the concert that weren't advertised.

- I love encores. Often putting lighter things at the end of heavier things. Eg. at the end of a symphony, Percy Grainger's arrangement of _Danny Boy _or John Williams' _Indiana Jones suite_ have been played here. Kind of lightens the mood and makes me go with a positive frame of mind.

With cd's, re texts:

- Provision of text, either in the cd booklet or online, but not translated. In original language and not translated into English. That's not much use to me, may as well not have anything.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Re CDs, ones that don't supply enough recording info, such as, engineers, recording dates, recording equipment, soloist's make and model of instrument, acoustic modification, etc., etc.

Re concerts, concertgoer noise during performance. Ushers who don't beat the sh_t out of late seat arrivals.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Vaneyes said:


> Re CDs, ones that don't supply enough recording info, such as, engineers, recording dates, recording equipment, soloist's make and model of instrument, acoustic modification, etc., etc.
> 
> *Re concerts, concertgoer noise during performance. Ushers who don't beat the sh_t out of late seat arrivals.*


I always found this to be a curiosity.


----------



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

1) Rich people who scoop up season tickets and then don't show up to concerts, leaving really good seats empty.

2) Pre-Concert lecturers who did their "research" on Wikipedia.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> Re CDs, ones that don't supply enough recording info, such as, engineers, recording dates, recording equipment, soloist's make and model of instrument, acoustic modification, etc., etc.
> 
> Re concerts, concertgoer noise during performance. Ushers who don't beat the sh_t out of late seat arrivals.


Where are you? My home town orchestra (o.k. one of the world's 'biggies') and many other high-end orchestras have this policy: You're late? You're late, and you will have to wait in the foyer UNTIL THE END OF THE PIECE to be seated. Same with the opera here (Exceptions, I suppose, are the box seats, with their near private entryway.)

There just are No Stragglers being seated when a piece is going on. Late for a program where all there is is a Mahler Symphony? You Will Not Be Seated Between movements. Be on time or don't bother. I like it


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sid James said:


> - I love encores. Often putting lighter things at the end of heavier things. Eg. at the end of a symphony, Percy Grainger's arrangement of _Danny Boy _or John Williams' _Indiana Jones suite_ have been played here. Kind of lightens the mood and makes me go with a positive frame of mind.


I hate light encores after the fact. If I want popcorn with my movie it should be up to me. Ergo, I rarely stay for them if I see them coming.


----------



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Not necessarily specific to classical music, but:

1. Place brand-new CD in CD player
2. Put on noise-reducing headphones 
3. Become totally immersed in the music, placing full concentration into it
4. *Ring ring* "I'm sorry but this is your boss, we're going to need you to come in an hour early tomorrow".
5. Nooooooooooooooooooo!


----------



## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

People who say Liszt wasn't a great composer (usually accompanied by various false, ignorant and negative claims while ignoring all the positives), and people who insist he's lesser than Chopin and the like.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

PetrB said:


> I hate light encores after the fact. If I want popcorn with my movie it should be up to me. Ergo, I rarely stay for them if I see them coming.


Well if the audience wants more, you gotta give them more! But the encores I enjoy most have come at youth orchestra concerts, not much from _grown up_ orchestras. But if there is a soloist, they often give an encore of their own regardless of who they're playing with, if the audience wants more. & I also like them on recordings, makes it more _real_, like being there.

& re late arrivals, they are usually let in here in the break between movements, if such a work starts the concert. I'm fine with that generally, but the concerts I go to it doesn't happen much. It's people leaving early that I think is more rude, as I explained above.


----------



## humanbean (Mar 5, 2011)

Light classical listeners. That is, people whose favorite classical "songs" are "Ode to Joy" and Mozart's "Allegro," and think Karl Jenkins writes "epic classical." The people that don't even bother to explore more music, preferring to stick to their pop/rock drivel.

/elitist ****


----------



## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Lisztian said:


> People who say Liszt wasn't a great composer (usually accompanied by various false, ignorant and negative claims while ignoring all the positives), and people who insist he's lesser than Chopin and the like.


Oops.

To counter that statement: I am annoyed at people who don't accept the fact that some people aren't going to like certain composers (however popular they may be in the community). Mind you, when I say I don't like a composer, I don't disregard the fact that they were influential (and thus could be still considered great in my humble opinion). When I say I don't like them, it's just not my cup of tea. Don't get upset.

Second, I am annoyed when others instantly judge composers on the "number of recordings" they have which I find has little correlation to how good or bad a composer is. (Other negative forms of judgment on a composer include gender, nationality, and corpus of works/instrumentation.)

Third (and probably my biggest pet peeve), I'm really annoyed when you buy a CD of a great work by a great instrumentals/singer/conductor...only to find out the recording is mono!


----------



## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Sid James said:


> Well, sometimes the replacement conductor or performer can be as good as the guy who isn't able to come on the night. Or an exciting discovery, new blood. Didn't Bernstein replace Mitropoulos one night conducting the New York Philharmonic, and the rest is history? Lenny was apparently on fire on the night, he made a huge impact with that concert. So understudies need not be bad or incompetent, as I take you suggesting.


I take your point Sid, but when you pay for the "Star" conductor and get the assistant its annoying.
Once, at the ROH it did work in my favour when the late Natalia Troitskaya was replaced by Maria Zampieri who I wanted to see anyway.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

humanbean said:


> Light classical listeners. That is, people whose favorite classical "songs" are "Ode to Joy" and Mozart's "Allegro," and think Karl Jenkins writes "epic classical." The people that don't even bother to explore more music, preferring to stick to their pop/rock drivel.


Light classical listeners have never insulted me, or made insinuations, about supposed deficiencies in my musical taste or preference. However, extreme fans of certain _serious_ and undoubtedly _genius_ composers, have. It's not the norm so much now or here, but it has happened online. You just have to say you don't like one of these sacred cows and people jump all over you with relish.

So in my experience, _highbrows _(if with toxic attitude) are much worse than _lowbrows_. But any ideology taken to extremes is toxic (ideology, a word I write here everyday).



> ...
> /elitist ****


& I'm a_ /lowbrow plebeian great unwashed masses ****.
_


Badinerie said:


> I take your point Sid, but when you pay for the "Star" conductor and get the assistant its annoying.
> Once, at the ROH it did work in my favour when the late Natalia Troitskaya was replaced by Maria Zampieri who I wanted to see anyway.


Well yes, if you've paid esp. to see the _star_, I can understand that. However, as in your example, understudies are the next best thing, they are I take it highly trained but maybe less experienced(?). But if the star is sick, they simply can't be there, simple as that. So the show must go on with or without him/her.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I feel a little insulted when I've waited for Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra & Sakari Oramo to play Bruckner's 5th (perhaps the greatest symphony of all time) since autumn, to be performed on May 25th...

...and _now_ they've switched it away from the program, and replaced it with a symphony of some neverheard Finnish composer who isn't even _dead._


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Xaltotun said:


> I feel a little insulted when I've waited for Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra & Sakari Oramo to play Bruckner's 5th (perhaps the greatest symphony of all time) since autumn, to be performed on May 25th...
> 
> ...and _now_ they've switched it away from the program, and replaced it with a symphony of some neverheard Finnish composer who isn't even _dead._


"Make way for the dead!" My goodness man, what if precedence for the dead over-rode your living-ness? Bruckner no longer has to make a living! He, and you, can WAIT.

Of course, your 'the greatest symphony ever' hyperbole was tongue in cheek, natch


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

It's true that one essential factor in Bruckner's music is indeed _patience._ Perhaps I must also settle and WAIT, like you said - that's what a true Brucknerian would do!

Hyperbole is of course my middle name, but really, right now, I can think of no better symphony than his fifth!

_BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!_


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Can't stand clapping between movements.

I also can't stand it when at the end of a movement the score says "attacca" and the performers give a good five second rest before moving on. Especially in Mozart's Requiem (Introitus to Kyrie) and at the end of the overture to Don Giovanni.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Can't stand clapping between movements.
> 
> I also can't stand it when at the end of a movement the score says "attacca" and the performers give a good five second rest before moving on. Especially in Mozart's Requiem (Introitus to Kyrie) and at the end of the overture to Don Giovanni.


Eek! I'm fortunate enough never to have heard this abomination (clapping between movements, not Mozart)!

How tasteless!


----------



## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Xaltotun said:


> Eek! I'm fortunate enough never to have heard this abomination (clapping between movements, not Mozart)!
> 
> How tasteless!


Happens all of the time at performances in liberal arts colleges where the audiences don't know better.


----------



## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Xaltotun said:


> Eek! I'm fortunate enough never to have heard this abomination (clapping between movements, not Mozart)!
> 
> How tasteless!


Ugh, it happened in between every movement in Sydney last year. In both Rach PC 2 and Tchaikovskies 4th symphony - and also the Appassionata piano sonata and op 2 No. 3.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Lisztian said:


> Ugh, it happened in between every movement in Sydney last year. In both Rach PC 2 and Tchaikovskies 4th symphony - and also the Appassionata piano sonata and op 2 No. 3.


In my experience, clapping between movements tends to happen more often than not in the big venues, eg. Sydney Opera House concert hall. Seldom if ever happens in smaller less prestigious venues. My deduction is that people who pay big aren't necessarily interested in the concert as music event, more as social event (eg. go there to get together for something before/after dinner, etc.). Like any night on the town. I'm not judging this, don't really care, but this is a symptom at the big venues, same as people leaving en masse before interval. Now that gets me really angry. It's very rude, at times a quarter to a third of the audience has left during interval.


----------



## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Badinerie said:


> Dear me I mucked up the thread title. Its supposed to read "What winds you up in the world of Classical music?"
> Maybe this counts


If you contact a mod, they will fix it for you. I don't see any mods having stopped by your thread yet.


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Olias said:


> 1) Rich people who scoop up season tickets and then don't show up to concerts, leaving really good seats empty.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Sid James said:


> In my experience, clapping between movements tends to happen more often than not in the big venues, eg. Sydney Opera House concert hall. Seldom if ever happens in smaller less prestigious venues. My deduction is that people who pay big aren't necessarily interested in the concert as music event, more as social event (eg. go there to get together for something before/after dinner, etc.). Like any night on the town. I'm not judging this, don't really care, but this is a symptom at the big venues, same as people leaving en masse before interval. Now that gets me really angry. It's very rude, at times a quarter to a third of the audience has left during interval.


I find that this happens with people who get tickets because they happen to be the guest of the sponsor, or work for the sponsor. Sometimes they want to show their appreciation for the music and they have no clue about concert etiquette. They think the regulars are boors who just don't appreciate that lovely sound. Similarly they leave at interval because they have had enough of the sound. An hour an a half of unaccustomed music can be heavy going.


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Olias said:


> 2) Pre-Concert lecturers who did their "research" on Wikipedia.


This is unforgiveable.

A combination of the programme notes and the information from the pre-concert talk should really help people access the work. When one of the works is unfamiliar to me I attend the pre-concert talk. I often come away from pre-concert talks none the wiser anyway.

I know this is actually a subject for its own thread, but it is interesting to reflect on what information should be in the pre-concert talk - and the programme notes for that matter.


----------

