# Barenboim's 3 Bruckner symphony cycles. Decisions descisions!



## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Being a lover of orchestral sound and specifically symphonies, how can one not one day fall into Bruckner's sound world via his symphonies?
I think I'm right in thinking that Barenboim is the only conductor to have recorded his symphonies 3 times (Chicago/Berlin P and Berlin SK). Barenboim is never mentioned at the top of Bruckner interpreters but he did record the cycle 3 times. I have his Berliner cycle and it is OK (the bloody photos with him in his fedora in that period looking all solemn doesn't help). Some regard his Chicago cycle as his finest, others don't see the point of competing with the Berliners, although there are people who prefer him with his own 'house' band the Berlin Staatskapelle (which I am tempted to buy but haven't taken the leap).
My question is a simple one (and apologies if this has been threaded before) but which of his Bruckner cycle is his best, why and ultimately, if you only needed one. Which? Many thanks in advance.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Get the Chicago one...great sound, great playing...so many highlights...


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I am pretty sure that Eugen Jochum made three complete Bruckner cycles as well. I recently repurchased his cycle with the Dresden Staatkapelle, which seems to have been remastered and offers a distinct improvement over my Musical Heritage incarnation from the early 1990s.
I have a Barenboim Fourth on Blu Ray and I think I had the Chicago 7th on lp. I live inChicago and was a subscriber to the Orchestra during the DB tenure and IIRC heard them in the Fifth. Otherwise I am not very familiar with his Bruckner.
I guess it depends how you feel about DB. He consistently tries for the Furtwangler grand ecstatic statement. Occasionally he achieves it. There is a lot of interventionalism. Bruckner however doesn’t exactly play himself so how much is to much is always a subjective point.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Triplets said:


> I am pretty sure that Eugen Jochum made three complete Bruckner cycles as well


As far as I know Jochum only recorded 2. His first with Bavarian Radio Symphony on DG, and his second with Dresden Staatskapelle on EMI (coincidentally my two favourite Orchestras!). Though, there might be 'another' floating around on Video or something that most may be unaware of.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Subutai said:


> As far as I know Jochum only recorded 2. His first with Bavarian Radio Symphony on DG, and his second with Dresden Staatskapelle on EMI. Though, there might be 'another' floating around on Video or something that most may be unaware of.


Membran's Jochum box has another Bruckner set from the 1950s ("The Legendary Early Recordings"), although it's only 4, 5, 7, and 9. If you're curious, it's ridiculously cheap at jpc.de right now.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Heck148 said:


> Get the Chicago one...great sound, great playing...so many highlights...


I agree. I got it just to hear the Chicago brass.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Another vote for Barenboim's Chicago set here. It's terrific.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Another vote for Barenboim's Chicago set here. It's terrific.


So many highlights in the Barenboim/CSO set- but perhaps my favorite is B7/III - best ever!! the scherzo really rocks...the brasses are perfectly balanced, the low brasses having a rollicking good time of it on those descending scale passages....#4 is amazing too, throughout...


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Jochum made a complete set with the Berlin Philharmonic. You can check the Orchestra or the Conductors web sites for links


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Triplets said:


> Jochum made a complete set with the Berlin Philharmonic. You can check the Orchestra or the Conductors web sites for links


I think you may be thinking of Jochum's first Bruckner cycle for DG. It was played by the Berlin Philharmonic (5 symphonies) AND Bavarian Radio Symphony (4 symphonies). I can't find a third complete cycle by him.

Saying that I'm more interested in Barenboim's 3 Bruckner cycles. Any opinions on his latest ones by Berlin Staatskapelle or Philharmonic?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think Jochum has the two complete cycles on DG and EMI but a bunch of earlier and later recordings that together might make up another half cycle. Also Wand has so many late live recordings that it might be enough for three cycles although probably without 1-3 in the 3rd one.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

My first encounter with Barenboim's Bruckner was the Chicago 1st, on a DG cd with Helgoland.
That performance blew me away, and I think it's one of the greatest 1sts ever (on par with Sawallisch).
Just listen to that wonderfully strange trombone theme at the end of the 1st movement's exposition, that never sounded more majestic and ominous (3:12 in the video below):






His BerlinPO cycle I found rather faceless and dull, surprisingly so.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I'd suggest getting the newest Barenboim cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin. It's really good as far as I am concerned, and his readings seem to me to have a better flow than the Berlin PO set on Warner.

I think you will have to end up avoiding the Chicago cycle, for the simple reason it's very hard to get hold of at the moment, even second hand.

Incidentally, if you're looking for a third Jochum cycle, I don't think there is one even to cobble together. But do try and find his DGG recordings of the last two symphonies, recorded before the DGG cycle itself, and in mono. They are more than just well worth hearing......especially the Hamburg Eighth, recorded in 1949.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

CnC Bartok said:


> But do try and find his DGG recordings of the last two symphonies, recorded before the DGG cycle itself, and in mono. They are more than just well worth hearing......especially the Hamburg Eighth, recorded in 1949.


Thanks for the heads-up. I wonder if the Hamburg Eighth is in the Membran set.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Subutai said:


> I think you may be thinking of Jochum's first Bruckner cycle for DG. It was played by the Berlin Philharmonic (5 symphonies) AND Bavarian Radio Symphony (4 symphonies). I can't find a third complete cycle by him.


I was unaware of that first cycle. Here is the image of the set.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I definitely prefer Barenboim’s Berlin cycle. The 5th and 9th are the highlights, among the best. 

The Chicago versions are well played, but he really hit his stride in Berlin. It also sounds more Brucknerian to my ears. 

The latest Staatskappelle version is the weakest, comparatively dull though very well recorded.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> The latest Staatskappelle version is the weakest, comparatively dull though very well recorded.


That's how I feel about his Schumann cycle with Staatskapelle....pretty bland....his earlier CSO set has much more lively and colorful...


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I agree that his last cycle is weaker than the previous two but there are still very good performances on there too, it just has a smoother sound that some feel detracts. It's certainly not 'bad'. I just have a firm preference for his Chicago set, partly because I like its brass heavy sound. However, it's nigh on impossible to get hold of these days (without selling a kidney) so if you're hell bent on a Barenboim cycle the middle Berlin one is a fine one to have and you won't be disappointed. If you use Spotify have a listen via streaming as all 3 cycles are on there. Good luck.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I have all three cycles and I enjoy all of them pretty much equally. Buy them all!

And then by his Brahms ............


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Barenboim's recordings with Chicago Symphony Orchestra really impressed me in my early days with Bruckner and i wholeheartedly would recommend to everyone who's new to this music. Symphonies 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8 are top performances with amazing brass sound.


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