# A Masterwork?



## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

What is a masterwork?

Let us imagine a scene: You have a piano player and a listener. The pianist improvises in the style of Haydn. Then he tells the listener that this piece is a refound work by Haydn. Our listener will be full with praise. 
Let's go back and say that he tells the listener that it is an early work by Mendelssohn, then the listener will say that it is ok, but only a style imitation.
And one other case left: The pianist tells the listener it is a work by Vivaldi! The listener will say that is amazing, wonderful, revolutional for Vivaldi.....

The piece has remained all the time the same, but the impression was different. What i want to say, i think we should come away from all this epochal thinking that music is related with an epoche...i think we should try this more, especially in history of music. Not that this isn't respected, but every work has its own genious value which should be respected as a single masterwork.


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## 009 (Jul 16, 2004)

> *The piece has remained all the time the same, but the impression was different. What i want to say, i think we should come away from all this epochal thinking that music is related with an epoche*


Brilliante!
Brava! Bravo! Bravisimmo! :lol: 
Yr right. We should view each work as a singularity. The history/timeline/composer of the work and that of its preceedors if more than anything, should be there to provide us a better, in-depth understanding of its nature. Not to ' generalise' our perspective of the work.


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## baroque flute (Jul 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by daniel_@Jul 28 2004, 08:55 PM
> *The piece has remained all the time the same, but the impression was different. What i want to say, i think we should come away from all this epochal thinking that music is related with an epoche...i think we should try this more, especially in history of music. Not that this isn't respected, but every work has its own genious value which should be respected as a single masterwork.
> [snapback]689[/snapback]​*


Finally, someone who feels the way I do about that!!!  I go by what seems to me to be the merit of each individual piece regardless of whether it is famous or obscure, baroque or romantic, Vivaldi or Joe Blow, part of a large brilliant work or just a little piece by itself. :lol: I think you did a really good job making your point!


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## godzillaviolist (Jan 21, 2005)

This is often what happens when people review works by women. If the woman wrote in a style ahead of her time, they call her "eccentric". If a woman wrote in the style of her times, they call her "derivitive". If a woman wrote in a style popular before her time, they call her "backward looking". Sexism has no place in music, and yet it always appears  
godzilla


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

Can you give some examples? E.g.it were not given to Fanny Mendelssohn the possibitly to become pianist and composer not develop her talent fully because of the system of time. But anyway she did write wonderful stuff. I really love her works. Clara Schumann did write in the style of time I would say?


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## godzillaviolist (Jan 21, 2005)

I haven't heard enough of Clara Schumann to tell ( at least she had enough sense to keep her fingers safe  )
 Here is a list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers

Of female composers. Suprising how infrequently they are heard. And thats a not a very complete list, I can think of several omissions ( the mother and daughter Barthelemon's for instance ).
The bias is still here today however. I remember seeing an application for a composition competition, where all the wording was male: it was "he" his" everywhere on the form


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## godzillaviolist (Jan 21, 2005)

I can give a very famous example: Mozart's sister. She showed an equal amount of talent, and yet was she ever encouraged to compose?
Another interesting of a woman being ahead of her time and ignored is that Fanny Mendelssohn first came up with the "songs wihout words" idea, but it was her brother who popularised it.


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## godzillaviolist (Jan 21, 2005)

I just found this:

http://cpa.feynsinn.de/sound/farsym1.mp3

By Louise Farrenc, I thought an interesting example of a female composers work.


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

Impressive, I love that...must buy it on CD.

Funny anecdote with Fanny: As Felix was in England and played for King Albert and Queen Victoria, they also sang songs, because Victoria's hobby was singing. As finishing piece Felix let her choose her favourite song out of a song book by Felix. She did choose, and Felix did blush. Why? Because she chose a song, Fanny wrote, but it was published with works written by her brother. They did so sometimes.


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## godzillaviolist (Jan 21, 2005)

Of course there is always the theory that a lot of the later Schumann works are by both Schumanns or Clara alone. 
Someone really should write a book about female composers through th ages. I know there is already a publishing company devoted to them.
godzilla


PS; I had a very distant ancestor who sang for queen Victoria, one of my great great great grandparents, though I'm not sure who exactly he was. He should be easy to find though, as he was married to a six foot tall woman with bright red hair! Not very common back then  .


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## majlis (Jul 24, 2005)

Violinists should try the solo works of Sophie Eckhardt-Gramatté and Grazyna Bazevicz


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