# Can opera teach you a language?



## Nothung (Feb 9, 2012)

I am very new to the world of opera (this is, in fact, my first post here) but since seeing Madama Butterfly at the Met a few months ago, I've been completely hooked. Every moment since has been devoted to absorbing opera; I'll download one or check one out from the library, listen while reading along in the libretto, and spend the next couple days taking it in on purely musical terms. What I've noticed though, is that in following the libretto I'll pick up a few words here and there, and in listening later on, I recognize these words as they appear. It helps me note individual sentences that I remember from the libretto, and I've noticed that the more I listen, the more I grasp. 

It's gotten me wondering, can one actually learn a language if they spend enough time with opera? My knowledge of Italian (nonexistent before) is slowly building through my obsession with Don Giovanni, for instance. Has anyone had an experience with this? Perhaps it's just enough to get you interesting in approaching a language seriously? Or maybe it can only be good practice once already learning? I have heard though, of people learning a language by watching a lot of movies/TV. Can opera do the same?


----------



## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

If you have a gift for languages, and remain as dedicated as you are now...quite possibly, though many of the expressions are idioms that are outdated and words that are old-fashioned are used, as well. In Wagner, for instance 'Weib' is used for wife, which is now not only out of style, but derogatory to some extent, and 'Frau' is used. I'm sure many such instances were outmoded at the time they were written but were chosen because of their antiquated connotations. Anyway, glad you found opera and a hearty welcome to TC. 'Long may you run'.


----------



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

You will also have to consider the difference between listening and speaking proficiency. Although listening to opera will present you with a much more difficult task than watching foreign TV with subtitles due to the extremely uncommon intonation (which may well lead you to pronounce words incorrectly), you may eventually be able to hear and understand without a translation. However that is _far_ from being able to allow you to actually speak the language. You may be able to store some set phrases in your head, but there's really no way of going about constructing your own speech in another language without explicitly exploring the grammatical rules.


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Hello Nothung & welcome to the forum. Great to have another opera fan join & especially one who seems suitably obsessed . 

Not sure about actually learning a language through opera but if you take a few language classes at the same time, I'm sure it will enhance your enjoyment of opera.


----------



## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

The phrases one tends to pick up from listening to operas lack a certain practical application, as well. You don't learn how to ask for directions, for example, but you can tell perfect strangers you love them (or hate them). :lol:


----------



## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

Crazier things have happened - isn't it a fact Miss Piggy learned to speak French by reading the back of perfume bottles?

Based on my experience with sung opera in French and English (both languages I am fluent in), I find that opera singers can do a very poor job of pronunciation, and sometimes the lyrical aspects of the works tend to make "listening" for words hard (except in recitative passages).

My answer would have to be "probably not".


----------



## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

I don't think that you can learn to speak a language through opera, but I certainly think that you can understand the language a lot better. I do feel that listening to opera has helped me with my Italian and German.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't know if you can actually learn a language from reading the libretto with the translation, but it can certainly help in doing this. 
I became a passionate opera fan (and of classical music in general) when I was just about 13 , back in the late 60s. My local library on Long Island had an extensive collection of classical Lps, including complete recordings of all the standard operas and less familiar ones. Listening along with the booklet in the sets, complete with the original libretto and an English translation next to it gave me familiarity with Italian, French,German, and even Russian and Czech .
When I began to take German in junior high school, I was already fairly familiar with the language, and knew exactly what it sounded like, and it helped me a lot in class . 
Getting familiar with these languages no doubt inspired my interest in languages and linguistics .
I also took a semester of Russian in college, and this helped me a lot, too. I was already pretty familiar with the language, and had learned to read the cyrillic alphabet, which is actually very easy to learn , and the professor 
said my pronunciation was excellent .
Knowldge of Italian made it easier to get familiar with Spanish,Portuguese and even Romanian for me, and German makes it easier to read Dutch,Swedish, Norwegian and Danish. Russian makes it easy to pick up Polish, Sebo-Croatian and Bulgarian .


----------



## Nothung (Feb 9, 2012)

superhorn said:


> I don't know if you can actually learn a language from reading the libretto with the translation, but it can certainly help in doing this.
> I became a passionate opera fan (and of classical music in general) when I was just about 13 , back in the late 60s. My local library on Long Island had an extensive collection of classical Lps, including complete recordings of all the standard operas and less familiar ones. Listening along with the booklet in the sets, complete with the original libretto and an English translation next to it gave me familiarity with Italian, French,German, and even Russian and Czech .
> When I began to take German in junior high school, I was already fairly familiar with the language, and knew exactly what it sounded like, and it helped me a lot in class .
> Getting familiar with these languages no doubt inspired my interest in languages and linguistics .
> ...


Interesting. So at the very least, it sounds like listening to opera certainly can't hurt when learning a new language. I've tried teaching myself French in the past, and while I got pretty far, I think I spent too much time on grammar and not enough on vocab. Perhaps French librettos will provide me with some of that practice.

It's too bad though, that French opera has not hit me nearly as hard as Italian and German have thus far.


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Nothung said:


> Interesting. So at the very least, it sounds like listening to opera certainly can't hurt when learning a new language. I've tried teaching myself French in the past, and while I got pretty far, I think I spent too much time on grammar and not enough on vocab. Perhaps French librettos will provide me with some of that practice.
> It's too bad though, that French opera has not hit me nearly as hard as Italian and German have thus far.


I'm tempted to say dive into _Les Troyens_ all four-plus hours of it :devil: but then again maybe not! You could try Gounod's _Faust_. It has some very catchy tunes.


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Manon is my favourite French opera. Carmen is good too, especially if you get the one with the spoken dialogue.


----------



## Nothung (Feb 9, 2012)

sospiro said:


> I'm tempted to say dive into _Les Troyens_ all four-plus hours of it :devil: but then again maybe not! You could try Gounod's _Faust_. It has some very catchy tunes.


I've actually spent quite a bit of time with Faust, and while I didn't like it much at all on first listening, I've really warmed up to it lately, especially after picking up Bonynge's version with Sutherland; totally jaw dropping!

I also watched this "Live at the Met" performance at my local movie theater not too long ago and I thought it was okay - not nearly as cool as the video you've just posted.

Les Troyens and Carmen are definitely coming up soon for me, although I was told Manon is not great?


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Nothung said:


> I've actually spent quite a bit of time with Faust, and while I didn't like it much at all on first listening, I've really warmed up to it lately, especially after picking up Bonynge's version with Sutherland; totally jaw dropping!


This happens to me a lot! I listen to something & think why does everyone seem to like this, & then after a few listenings I fall in love with it



Nothung said:


> I also watched this "Live at the Met" performance at my local movie theater not too long ago and I thought it was okay - not nearly as cool as the video you've just posted.


This is good as well












Nothung said:


> Les Troyens and Carmen are definitely coming up soon for me, although I was told Manon is not great?


_Les Troyens_ was one of those I didn't like at all & it took about 10 - 15 listenings but now I think it rocks.


----------



## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I learned a lot of Italian from operas. I don't know much of the grammar (other than what I deduced) but I can understand about 70% of the dialogues in Godfather and Assassin's Creed without subtitles.


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Nothung said:


> Les Troyens and Carmen are definitely coming up soon for me, although I was told* Manon is not great*?


Manon came in at 52 out of the TC 272 recommended operas (ahead of Faust). I must confess that I wasn't wild about it first time I saw it, but now I love it passionately.


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> _Les Troyens_ was one of those I didn't like at all & it took about 10 - 15 listenings but now I think it rocks.


haha Annie when you say you do your homework you REALLY mean it.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The DVD of Faust pictured on this thread is the one where Bryn Terfel is wearing a woman's sequinned gown in the Walpurgis night scene ! I started a thread on this a while ago.


----------

