# Concerto in A minor (First movement) NEED FEEDBACK! :D



## Davincii

Hey guys,

So my teacher set me a task to compose a concerto in A minor and I've never really composed before but it's really enjoyable I found. Anyway I have finished composing the first movement to a concerto in A minor but I don't think it sounds quite right. 

Please give feedback so I can improve it...


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https://soundcloud.com/selenagomezlolx%2Fasd-36


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## Webernite

Good for a first effort.


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## Webernite

You need to divide the music into clear phrases, rather than just writing a constant series of notes.


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## Davincii

It took my 9 hours to compose this. 

And I get no feedback...

Wow this forum is really helpful isn't it. 

You all suck at composing anyway. I've listened to your compositions. They're terrible.


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## Webernite

If it makes you feel better, Brahms took ten years on his string quartets and nobody likes those either.

Edit: Why don't you post the score? People might have something to say then. If not, try a composers' forum.


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## Couchie

Davincii said:


> It took my 9 hours to compose this.
> 
> And I get no feedback...
> 
> Wow this forum is really helpful isn't it.
> 
> You all suck at composing anyway. I've listened to your compositions. They're terrible.


Really, 9 hours? I compose better stuff in 10 minute stints on the toilet.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Davincii said:


> It took my 9 hours to compose this.
> 
> And I get no feedback...
> 
> Wow this forum is really helpful isn't it.
> 
> You all suck at composing anyway. I've listened to your compositions. They're terrible.


Petulance is not going to win you any friends or get you much sympathetic comment. You're more likely to get responses like Polednice's.

I didn't comment first time around because

(a) I can hardly hear the soloist through my admittedly poor computer speakers

(b) when I can hear the soloist, it seems they're only doubling the strings. It sounds more like a continuo in a baroque piece. I don't hear any interplay or argument between the soloist and the tutti, which is what I expect in a concerto

(c) I don't hear any structure, there's no light and shade, no tension and release

(d) it sounds incomplete and appears to end arbitrarily.

If this is your first effort ever, then you've done well. If this is a required exercise then you can be forgiven for not being inspired by the task. But it seems to me that you've approached the task bar by bar, note by note, so the listener has no sense of where the music is going. At the same time, it is clearly emulating baroque formulations so you're triggering all sorts of associations in the listener which you're then undermining. If you have the talent of a Schnittke, you can turn this technique to expressive effect but, for most of us, this cognitive dissonance trick is too hard.

Personally, I like there to be something individual about a composition - if not actually new. Aiming higher and failing is more praiseworthy than playing safe - which is why I find Michael Torke's music so irritating. If you must write a faux baroque concerto, the advice would be to study in depth what you seek to copy. Have you actually undertaken a detailed analysis of one of the Bach keyboard concertos?


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## Davincii

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Petulance is not going to win you any friends or get you much sympathetic comment. You're more likely to get responses like Polednice's.
> 
> I didn't comment first time around because
> 
> (a) I can hardly hear the soloist through my admittedly poor computer speakers
> 
> (b) when I can hear the soloist, it seems they're only doubling the strings. It sounds more like a continuo in a baroque piece. I don't hear any interplay or argument between the soloist and the tutti, which is what I expect in a concerto
> 
> (c) I don't hear any structure, there's no light and shade, no tension and release
> 
> (d) it sounds incomplete and appears to end arbitrarily.
> 
> If this is your first effort ever, then you've done well. If this is a required exercise then you can be forgiven for not being inspired by the task. But it seems to me that you've approached the task bar by bar, note by note, so the listener has no sense of where the music is going. At the same time, it is clearly emulating baroque formulations so you're triggering all sorts of associations in the listener which you're then undermining. If you have the talent of a Schnittke, you can turn this technique to expressive effect but, for most of us, this cognitive dissonance trick is too hard.
> 
> Personally, I like there to be something individual about a composition - if not actually new. Aiming higher and failing is more praiseworthy than playing safe - which is why I find Michael Torke's music so irritating. If you must write a faux baroque concerto, the advice would be to study in depth what you seek to copy. Have you actually undertaken a detailed analysis of one of the Bach keyboard concertos?


Finally some helpful criticism!

I agree with most of your points except (c) though that's perhaps due to your poor speaker quality. I did in fact, write this not by note and the piece doesn't have a direction and is stuck in a moment.

I'm new to composing and while I have lots of ideas, I can't formulate them coherenty, which is evident in this piece. I've never studied any music before, I tend to go with what sounds acceptable and I don't know a lot about chords and cadences. I'm 15 so we haven't covered that in school yet.

Here, I have uploaded a copy of the sheet music for you to look at. To me, it looks fine. Although to someone like you, I imagine you're looking at a composition riddled with error!


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## StevenOBrien

> You all suck at composing anyway. I've listened to your compositions. They're terrible.













Davincii said:


> Finally some helpful criticism!
> 
> I agree with most of your points except (c) though that's perhaps due to your poor speaker quality. I did in fact, write this not by note and the piece doesn't have a direction and is stuck in a moment.
> 
> I'm new to composing and while I have lots of ideas, I can't formulate them coherenty, which is evident in this piece. I've never studied any music before, I tend to go with what sounds acceptable and I don't know a lot about chords and cadences. I'm 15 so we haven't covered that in school yet.
> 
> Here, I have uploaded a copy of the sheet music for you to look at. To me, it looks fine. Although to someone like you, I imagine you're looking at a composition riddled with error!


Well, as for errors, Bar 35, viola line, you have a stray tie.

Unfortunately I didn't really find your piece very interesting. Sorry . I know it's tough to be told that something you've worked hard on isn't good (I've gotten that quite a bit myself).

I notice you don't use any dynamics (fortes, pianissimos etc.) in the piece, and I think dynamic contrast would serve this type of piece very well. You don't seem to use any articulations either (staccatos, accents), while you're by no means obliged to use these, it might be a good idea to experiment a little and see what happens.

I notice that you have a tendency to stay not only in the same key, but the same chord (A minor) for long periods of time. This tends to make for very uninteresting music. You should obtain a book on harmony/voice leading and read through it (Pretty boring stuff, but you will improve a lot by doing so). It wouldn't hurt for you to obtain a book on counterpoint either.

I don't really like your keyboard writing either, I think you could do so much better than just writing a single line for the left hand throughout.

Also, look for a book called "Classical Form" by William E. Caplin, you will benefit a lot from reading it.

You have a lot to learn. The most important thing you can do now as a beginning composer is to listen to your favorite composers as often as you can. An old technique for learning composition is to buy scores for your favorite pieces and copy them out (into sibelius if you wish) in order to study how they've been put together.

From what I gather, you seem to be quite interested in Bach. Robert Greenberg has done a great lecture series on Bach that you should definitely check out sometime: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=720 . He also does quite a bit of in depth analysis of Bach's music here, which will definitely help you with your composition. If you enjoy it, be sure to check out his other courses.

Leonard Bernstein's Harvard lecture series might also interest you: 




I look forward to hearing your future efforts. Good luck!


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## Turangalîla

If it's any consolation, I am scared to try composing because I know that it could never match up to the great classical masters...

I am going to be honest: I did not love your composition. It is very commendable for a first time effort, but I feel that the music should have more of a shape to it. Consider fitting it into a form (eg. sonata form, rondo form). If you have not heard of these you can ask your teacher. Sonata form, in particular, is very good for giving the music the feeling that it is going somewhere; it gives it direction.

What kind of a concerto is this? A violin concerto or a violin section concerto? It was not very clear. If you do not have one clear soloist consider renaming it a symphony instead. If you have a soloist, make it clear when they come in and exit. The soloist does not have to play the whole time, and when they do, it is usually (but not always) the main part.

On your next composition, try putting the melody into four-bar phrases. Some composers, such as Bartók, are very good at pulling off three, five, and seven-bar phrases, but as a new composer I would stick to four. Even if your ideas are not that original, symmetrical phrasing will make it make sense to the listener and will improve it.

The last thing I would suggest is to establish a clear key structure. This often corresponds with the form of the piece. Have you taken any harmony classes? Harmony classes will give you a better understanding of how to do this. Make sure you modulate to keys that make sense—not necessarily predictable ones, but ones that make sense—and get there using chords that are common to both keys. 

I wish you best of luck with your composing efforts!


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## Romantic Geek

I'm not going to candy-coat it just because of your rudeness in your second post on your thread.

A couple of things I'm not particularly a fan of:

1) Overuse of the Andalusian cadence.
2) Consequently, there was no sense of departure from A minor.
3) The scalar runs up and down get boring really quickly.
4) There's no motivic development of any kind besides a few rhythmic things.

You've got a long way to go. Good luck.


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## redrobin

This sure sounds like a very helpful forum. I'm glad you guys are blunt and don't candy coat anything. I've composed in the past and hope to present my music here soon. One of my favourite devices is I like to meld cultures; that is, within the context of western music, I like to add Turkish or Asian instruments. The Turkish I especially like because one of the scales I've used has only 7 notes. Sweet!


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## PetrB

My advice is to table this piece and go back to it much later.
Why people with hardly any training tackle a concerto, a symphony, a full-length sonata is beyond me, other than there is a current notion one can 'just dive in' and that anything you make with a bit of native ability is going to be brilliant.

Most often it is not. There are tons of weaknesses in this piece, typical, and none of that destroys the impression you have some musicality and music within you. That is 'a gift.' However, you have no idea, perhaps, of how many people have the same gift and a general facility.

A general facility is not of much worth - as you've found, you've got a lot of problems in making music do what you want it to do.

The overall impression is of very thin music, not much real harmony and a lot of unison doublings -- those make it sound very thin and insubstantial.

You need to back up, if self-taught go to some short and simple challenges staying within the boundaries of some short and simple forms. Write lots - little aba formed pieces, then look into sonata form, and try a sonatina, the abbreviated version.

If you have no idea of, or cannot handle a sonata-allegro format, you are doomed to write a really not holding together concerto, especially in the Baroque or classical style. There is a double exposition as a standard, for starters.

Almost all young (beginning, any age, is 'young') are famously short-winded. Keep to the smaller idea, the shorter piece you can complete. Part of what we all need to learn is how to start, get through, and finish a piece. The shorter forms and exercises let you build up mental skills to stay with and support making those longer and larger structures.

Right now, it is like you are trying to go to the top level of pounds and reps at some gym equipment, and you've barely got the muscle for the minimum weight and number of reps.

It is a cumulative skill, and you have to cave in to that truth, large and larger ambitions aside - not abandoned, just set aside while you take care of more basics. 

A lot of the music posted here is from people exactly in your position, and that's why those pieces are just as flawed as yours 

Want to improve? Follow my directive. Want to whine? Anyone can do that, its a tiny bit of energy better applied to working at getting better, though.


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## Tomposer

> It took my 9 hours to compose this.
> 
> And I get no feedback...


I will leave you with an important tip about the way the internet (and beyond) works. How many hours you invested in any given ware displayed publicly is not proportional with any entitlement of attention from the public. Welcome to composition my friend.


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## Tomposer

(not to mention that it more hours of work than nine, in the way of at least an order of magnitude, before you produce much that even you'll be happy with let alone an audience).


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## Romantic Geek

Tomposer said:


> I will leave you with an important tip about the way the internet (and beyond) works. How many hours you invested in any given ware displayed publicly is not proportional with any entitlement of attention from the public. Welcome to composition my friend.


And not to make it sound worse...but composition comes with many failures. In fact, my friend tracks her failures as a composer in this funny (but at times depressing) blog: Why Compose When You Can Blog.


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## Tomposer

Romantic Geek said:


> And not to make it sound worse...but composition comes with many failures. In fact, my friend tracks her failures as a composer in this funny (but at times depressing) blog: Why Compose When You Can Blog.


Moreover...... it doesn't matter how experienced you get you STILL write failures  . You hope that your hit rate improves, and you get used to aborting something that's not working in the very early stages. But I imagine for most of us, even when we've been doing it for years, we only nail about 1 in 5 or so (more or less).


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