# My list of the 100 greatest composers



## DavidMahler

I tried to be as impartial as I could


1.	Ludwing van Beethoven (1770-1827 German)
2.	Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750 German)
3.	Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791 Austrian)
4.	Richard Wagner (1811-1883 German)
5.	Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (1525-1594 Italian)
6.	Franz Schubert (1797-1828 Austrian)
7.	Josquin des Prez (1450-1521 Franco-Flemish)
8.	Johannes Brahms (1833-1897 German)
9.	Claude Debussy (1862-1918 French)
10.	Franz Josef Haydn (1732-1809 Austrian)
11.	Georg Frederic Handel (1685-1759 German-British)
12.	Giullame de Machaut (1300-1377 French)
13.	Claudio Monteverdi (1567-1743 Italian)
14.	Gustav Mahler (1860-1911 Austro-Hungarian)
15.	Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971 Russian)
16.	Robert Schumann (1810-1856 German)
17.	Pytor Il'yich Tchaikovsky (1840-1893 Russian)
18.	Fryderyk Chopin (1810-1849 Polish)
19.	Jean Sibelius (1865-1957 Finnish)
20.	Guillaume Dufay (1397-1474 Franco-Flemish)
21.	Antonin Dvorak (1841-1904 Czech)
22.	Dmitri Shostakovich (1906-1975 Russian)
23.	Giuseppe Verdi (1813-1901 Italian)
24.	William Byrd (1540-1623 English)
25.	Franz Liszt (1811-1886 Hungarian)
26.	Hector Berlioz (1803-1869 French)
27.	Bela Bartok (1881-1945 Hungarian)
28.	Jean-Philippe Rameau (1683-1764 French)
29.	Maurice Ravel (1875-1937 French)
30.	Anton Bruckner (1824-1896 Austrian)
31.	Sergey Prokofiev (1891-1953 Russian)
32.	Arnold Schoenberg (1874-1951 Austrian)
33.	Felix Mendelssohn (1809-1847 German)
34.	Richard Strauss (1864-1949 German)
35.	Christoph Willibald Gluck (1714-1787 German)
36.	Orlando de Lassus (1532-1594 Franco-Flemish)
37.	Henry Purcell (1659-1695 English)
38.	Tomas Luis de Victoria (1548-1611 Spanish)
39.	Modest Mussorgsky (1839-1881 Russian)
40.	Johannes Ockeghem (1410-1497 Franco-Flemish)
41.	Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992 French)
42.	Gyorgy Ligeti (1923-2006 Hungarian)
43.	Sergey Rachmaninov (1873-1943 Russian)
44.	Camille Saint-Saens (1835-1921 French)
45.	Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007 Geman)
46.	Anton Webern (1883-1945 Austrian)
47.	Carl Maria Von Webern (1786-1826 German)
48.	Antonin Vivaldi (1678-1741 Italian)
49.	Alban Berg (1885-1935 Austrian)
50.	Thomas Tallis (1505-1585 English)
51.	Bedrich Smetana (1824-1884 Czech)
52.	Paul Hindemith (1895-1963 German)
53.	Georg Philipp Telemann (1681-1767 German)
54.	Giacomo Puccini (1858-1924 Italian)
55.	Arcangelo Corelli (1653-1731 Italian)
56.	Giovanni Gabrieli (1557-1612 Italian)
57.	Gioachino Rossini (1792-1868 Itailian)
58.	Gabriel Faure (1845-1924 French)
59.	Edvard Grieg (1843-1907 Norwegian)
60.	Leos Janacek (1854-1928 Czech)
61.	Carl Nielsen (1865-1931 Danish)
62.	Edward Elgar (1857-1934)
63.	Heinrich Schutz (1585-1782 German)
64.	Alexander Scriabin (1872-1915 Russian)
65.	Pierre Boulez (1925-n/a French)
66.	Benjamin Britten (1913-1976 English)
67.	Francois Couperin (1668-1733 French)
68.	Georges Bizet (1838-1875 French)
69.	Charles Ives (1874-1954 American)
70.	Erik Satie (1866-1925 French)
71.	Gaetano Donizetti (1797-1848 Italian)
72.	Cesar Franck (1822-1890 Belgian)
73.	Ralph Vaughan-Williams (1872-1956 English)
74.	Alexander Taneyev (1850-1918 Russian)
75.	Alfred Schntitke (1934-1998 Russian)
76.	John Cage (1912-1992 American)
77.	Dietrich Buxtehude (1637-1707 Danish)
78.	Vincenzo Bellini (1801-1835 Italian)
79.	Kristoff Penderecki (1933-n/a Polish)
80.	Jacob Obrecht (1457-1505 Franco-Flemish)
81.	Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov (1848-1908 Russian)
82.	Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach (1714-1788 German)
83.	Mikhail Glinka (1804-1857 Russian)
84.	Edgar Varese (1883-1965 French)
85.	Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805 Italian)
86.	Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625 English)
87.	Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck (1562-1621 Dutch)
88.	Philip Glass (1937-n/a American)
89.	Carlo Gesualdo (1566-1613 Italian)
90.	Charles Gounod (1818-1893 French)
91.	Samuel Barber (1910-1981 American)
92.	Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757 Italian)
93.	Aaron Copland (1900-1990 American)
94.	Alexander Borodin (1833-1887 Russian)
95.	Giacomo Meyerbeer (1791-1864 German)
96.	Isaac Albeniz (1860-1909 Spanish)
97.	Marc-Antoine Charpentier (1643-1704 French)
98.	Manuel de Falla (1876-1946 Spanish)
99.	Steve Reich (1936-n/a American)
100.	Perotin/Leonin (c. 1200 French)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Swap Schoenberg and Debussy around. And swap Bach and Beethoven around too.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

DavidMahler said:


> 45.	Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007 Geman)


Germany was just his adopted country. Wasn't born there at all.


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## Lisztian

Very interesting list. I love how you managed to be very broad and...cover all the bases rather than glorify individual eras.


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## DavidMahler

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Swap Schoenberg and Debussy around. And swap Bach and Beethoven around too.


Schoenberg in the top 10?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

DavidMahler said:


> Schoenberg in the top 10?


I would consider him one of the most important composers in the history of music. Without him where will our music be today? He is one of the most influential and creative composers of all time. Also an excellent teacher and also a pretty good painter (he taught his next door neighbour George Gershwin how to paint).


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## Polednice

DavidMahler said:


> I tried to be as impartial as I could


You have _got_ to enlighten us with your criteria.


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## DavidMahler

Polednice said:


> You have _got_ to enlighten us with your criteria.


i put a 1000 names in a blender. then I put my hand inside and if i pulled out a name i didn't like, i ripped it up. if i t was a name i thought deserved to be in the top 100, i set it aside.

then i let my cat pick the order


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## clavichorder

Some of your Russian romantic choices are interesting. Brave effort, I suppose. I've no doubt that its better than most, including myself could do, but how can you try this and expect to be anywhere close to perfect. My list would look different, and may be a little less valid in spots, due to less overall knowledge, but also simply due to different personal judgements.

Pleased to see Carl Phillip and Taneyev appear.

Some really major names that are extremely low on your list, I'm curious about. Aaron Copland? Domenico Scarlatti?


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## starthrower

Polednice said:


> You have _got_ to enlighten us with your criteria.


He likes white guys! OK, don't get upset. I'm just kidding!


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## clavichorder

Out of almost morbid curiosity, would you say you are capable of going on and ranking another 400 composers? I'm not asking you to do it, I just wonder if you are capable and if the idea almost strikes your fancy.


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## Dodecaplex

Polednice said:


> You have _got_ to enlighten us with your criteria.


As fallible as I am, I believe he used the great-o-meter, which is a device that Apollo, the patron god of music and poetry, invented for us mortals so that we may do his bidding and turn music into a science without thinking about personal preferences and other inhibiting concepts. Though, to be honest, that doesn't take into account what Zeus might think of Apollo's personal preferences.


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## DavidMahler

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I would consider him one of the most important composers in the history of music. Without him where will our music be today? He is one of the most influential and creative composers of all time. Also an excellent teacher and also a pretty good painter (he taught his next door neighbour George Gershwin how to paint).


I agree he was great teacher, but I feel his methods and ideologies occupy a much smaller place in the history of music than many other great 20th century composers. No doubt of his genius though and I wouldn't necessarily object to him being just on the outskirts of the top 20. He could never sit in front of Mahler though in my opinion, a composer with whom I relate him to in a way.


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## DavidMahler

clavichorder said:


> Out of almost morbid curiosity, would you say you are capable of going on and ranking another 400 composers? I'm not asking you to do it, I just wonder if you are capable and if the idea almost strikes your fancy.


I think I would be too bold to say I know 400 composers' works and historical value intimately. To be honest, I'm too bold to suggest I know 100 of them well enough. Just to know one of those composers extremely well is quite a task. I could probably list 400 composers and I could probably do it in some sort of order, but it would be total guesses at that point. In this list, I really tried to assess whatever memories I've had talking with people.

Scarlatti is a great composer, but his 500+ one movement sonatas are just not quite the right motivation for me to put him higher. Copland is one I think American's adore, but outside of that I could see him being totally ignored.

My list, I really just made to dilute the romantic era emphasis. Those Renaissance composers are great. I listen to them a lot. And they get totally ignored on best of lists. Josquin is a much better composer than Mendelssohn. Palestrina is a genius compared to someone even as wonderful Grieg. It's so easy to dismiss the early stuff. The later stuff too gets oddly dismissed. Varese, Ligeti, Boulez, Webern are truly top composers. Messiaen in my opinion is the greatest composer born in the 20th Century after Shostakovich, but I think Messiaen's influence is still being weighed, and one day he may even be recalled as the supreme 20th Century composer over Shostakovich.


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## clavichorder

David Mahler, I think you might really enjoy Copland's 1st symphony. Have you ever heard it? It was written two ways, the purely orchestral version is superior to the organ symphony in my opinion. It might change the way you think about Copland.


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## clavichorder

I have to admit that at this point in time, I don't enjoy most of the Rennaisance music as much as music of other periods. Its hard for me to think of it as much. But I really enjoy English Virginal and Rennaissance Lute music.


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## DavidMahler

I think I own it tho, I don't recall it offhand. Let me go check...


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## clavichorder

I am particularly fond of the finale, it is one of the "snappiest" things I know.

This is the CD to which I refer


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## clavichorder

What part of Rennaissance output do you consider the most important? Which genre? It would seem that people rave the most about Choral music. Am I correct?


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## DavidMahler

Regarding the Copland, I don't own that one. I own one version of his 2nd and 4 versions of 3rd. I'll have to get my hands on a copy of the 1st, thanks for recommendation!

Yeah the choral works are definitely mostly whats available. There's a lot of polyphony in there that sounds odd to me, but I can tell, had I lived at the time, it would have been very intuitive. I think Machaut's music in particular is striking. His Chansons, the Notre Dame mass. It's eerie sounding, but calming too. But on a deeper level, it's very well executed.

William Byrd's writing for the virginal is among the first keyboard compositions non organ. They are surprisingly challenging. Orlando Gibbons, John Bull, Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, Girolamo Frescobaldi & Johann Jakob Froberger, Louis and Francois Couperin and finally Dietrich Buxtehude are the main composers who laid the entire foundation to which JS Bach and Handel wrote their keyboard works. It's fascinating to hear how it evolved. 

Froberger essentially invented the keyboard suite, which in the 17th Century was as essential as the Symphony was in the 18th Century. Bach's music recalls Froberger quite a bit. I can only imagine had a list like this been made in Bach's time, where Froberger would have positioned. As times change and trends change and harmony advances, things get forgotten.


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## clavichorder

DavidMahler said:


> William Byrd's writing for the virginal is among the first keyboard compositions non organ. They are surprisingly challenging. Orlando Gibbons, John Bull, Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, Girolamo Frescobaldi & Johann Jakob Froberger, Louis and Francois Couperin and finally Dietrich Buxtehude are the main composers who laid the entire foundation to which JS Bach and Handel wrote their keyboard works. It's fascinating to hear how it evolved.
> 
> Froberger essentially invented the keyboard suite, which in the 17th Century was as essential as the Symphony was in the 18th Century. Bach's music recalls Froberger quite a bit. I can only imagine had a list like this been made in Bach's time, where Froberger would have positioned. As times change and trends change and harmony advances, things get forgotten.


I agree that its fascinating. I would love to be able to sight read better so I could play it myself...

Regarding Froberger, I heard him performed on the clavichord in the particularly slow manner and was turned off. I think I'd want to hear a good harpsichord recording played with good rhythm.


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## Couchie

DavidMahler, you seem to like ranking things. This makes a lot of people very angry and in general is not recommended.


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## clavichorder

Couchie said:


> DavidMahler, you seem to like ranking things. This makes a lot of people very angry and in general is not recommended.


Like how he said Medtner was the 6th best piano composer, citing Shosty and Mussorgsky as being better at piano than Medtner...I would say Medtner is third to Prokofiev and Scriabin, tie with Rach. David, I forgive you, but you pissed me off then.


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## DavidMahler

Couchie said:


> DavidMahler, you seem to like ranking things. This makes a lot of people very angry and in general is not recommended.


I should take the Wagner route, just rank myself as better than everyone else. Would you like me then?


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## Clementine

I'm curious to know what your credentials are. How old are you, how long have you been listening to classical music, are/were you a music student?

I suppose it's a commendable effort, though it seems that you aren't too familiar with contemporary music, and that you place too much precedence on popularity. I think it's fine not to include too many living composers- in fact I would argue you shouldn't include any at all, as they haven't offered their full output. But with composers like Telemann... are you _really_ familiar with Telemann's output, or did you just put him there because he used to be a big name? And Janacek, I would argue is one of the 20th centuries greatest and most individual voices in music but wildly underrated... does he deserve to be put behind Smetana, a fine composer to be sure, but merely a stepping stone for Czech music. And does Philip Glass, a composer whose been on autopilot for the past two decades, really deserve a spot when Elliot Carter has been treading new territory for 80 years?

Just my two cents though.


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## DavidMahler

Clementine said:


> I'm curious to know what your credentials are. How old are you, how long have you been listening to classical music, are/were you a music student?
> 
> I suppose it's a commendable effort, though it seems that you aren't too familiar with contemporary music, and that you place too much precedence on popularity. I think it's fine not to include too many living composers- in fact I would argue you shouldn't include any at all, as they haven't offered their full output. But with composers like Telemann... are you _really_ familiar with Telemann's output, or did you just put him there because he used to be a big name? And Janacek, I would argue is one of the 20th centuries greatest and most individual voices in music but wildly underrated... does he deserve to be put behind Smetana, a fine composer to be sure, but merely a stepping stone for Czech music. And does Philip Glass, a composer whose been on autopilot for the past two decades, really deserve a spot when Elliot Carter has been treading new territory for 80 years?
> 
> Just my two cents though.


I'm 29. I don't have a doctorate in music or anything. But I have worked with musicians all my life. And yes, I have a lot of music in my collection. I have about 40 Telemann CDs. Obviously that's not the bulk of his output, but my CD collection is over 12,000.


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## DavidMahler

I put Smetana higher than Janacek because of how important he was to the nationalist movement.


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## science

DavidMahler said:


> I'm 29. I don't have a doctorate in music or anything. But I have worked with musicians all my life. And yes, I have a lot of music in my collection. I have about 40 Telemann CDs. Obviously that's not the bulk of his output, but my CD collection is over 12,000.


12,000 CDs and 29 years old - if you listen to music 12 hours a day, you'll be able to hear them all once in three years. So at most you'd have heard those CDs 3-4 times on average.

I guess I have about 2300 CDs, and it's too much for me.

BTW, I endorse the activity of ranking things - why not? - but to me the word "greatest" makes it dubious.


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## Clementine

Fair enough, just like to know who I'm talking to if I'm offering criticism. 

Also completely unrelated, but I just opened my music history textbook and the very first page of my assigned reading contains a photo of your avatar.


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## DavidMahler

Clementine said:


> Fair enough, just like to know who I'm talking to if I'm offering criticism.
> 
> Also completely unrelated, but I just opened my music history textbook and the very first page of my assigned reading contains a photo of your avatar.


oh, it must be that book i wrote


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## Very Senior Member

DavidMahler said:


> i put a 1000 names in a blender. then I put my hand inside and if i pulled out a name i didn't like, i ripped it up. if i t was a name i thought deserved to be in the top 100, i set it aside.
> 
> then i let my cat pick the order


If your intention in producing this list is to try to educate your audience I'm surprised you made this flippant response to a perfectly sensible question about what criteria you used to arrive at this ranking.

I would like to repeat the earlier request by asking how you arrived at this list: what factors were used, how you rated each of them "objectively", and how you then weighted them all together to produce a single result. Pleaee provide full detais including all the weights you used.

I'm really fascinated by things like this so I hope you will be able to enlighten me further.


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## NightHawk

You got the right composer at the top!!! The is a good list, please thank your cat for me, though I would do some slight reordering here and there, just quibbles and kibbles.



DavidMahler said:


> I tried to be as impartial as I could
> 
> 1.	Ludwing van Beethoven (1770-1827 German)
> 2.	Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750 German)
> 3.	Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791 Austrian)
> 4.	Richard Wagner (1811-1883 German)
> 5.	Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (1525-1594 Italian)
> 6.	Franz Schubert (1797-1828 Austrian)
> 7.	Josquin des Prez (1450-1521 Franco-Flemish)
> 8.	Johannes Brahms (1833-1897 German)
> 9.	Claude Debussy (1862-1918 French)
> 10.	Franz Josef Haydn (1732-1809 Austrian)
> _et al_


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Schoenberg should be in the top ten somewhere.


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## Crudblud

Objective greatness is such a stupid concept.


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## Eviticus

I got as far as number 17 and looked for a dislike button...


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## Argus

DavidMahler said:


> my CD collection is over 12,000.


Mind boggling.

How much did you spend acquiring so many discs?


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## norman bates

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I would consider him one of the most important composers in the history of music.


it's not the same for debussy? Is even more influential too.


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## DavidMahler

For some reason, I cant edit my posts at work. I don't see the option, but if a moderator could so kindly go into my OP and change 47. Carl Maria Von Webern (1786-1826 German) to Weber... it's really bugging me 

Regarding the 12,000 CDs. I had the intention of opening an online radio station, and then that plan fell through about 2 years ago. 

Regarding my list and the order, it's really guess work based on the hundreds of discussions I've had with people. I also was a music major at Hunter, but I did not graduate. I left to pursue my music career. 

I've worked for and with a lot of musicians. And I've had the chance to talk with a few critics and a lot of scholars. I don't know if my list is accurate, but I do know that the lists which place an emphasis on the 19th Century are not as accurate as maybe they could be. Even my list is biased towards the 19th Century, but I tried to be a bit fairer. If somehow, someone were able to view the past 1000 years of music as a whole and take it all in, I wouldn't be surprised if there were influences and masters who are totally forgotten, that at one point were as crucial as Bach is to us now.


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## Very Senior Member

DavidMahler said:


> Regarding my list and the order, it's really guess work based on the hundreds of discussions I've had with people.


Can I take it that this is your reply to the question I posed earlier seeking information on the methodology you employed to enable you to produce your numerically ranked list of the 100 greatest composers as set out in the OP?

If so, I am somewhat disappointed. I was expecting an analysis rather more substantial than this, I must admit. I had imagined a set of qualitive criteria like originality, complexity, intrinsic beauty, popularity, etc. Then a kind of matrix of scores for each criterion for each of the main works, followed by a sensitivity analysis of some description.

Instead, all you offer us is that it's based on "guesswork" plus a few "chats" with your mates. Is this serious?


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## DavidMahler

Very Senior Member said:


> Can I take it that this is your reply to the question I posed earlier seeking information on the methodology you employed to enable you to produce your numerically ranked list of the 100 greatest composers as set out in the OP?
> 
> If so, I am somewhat disappointed. I was expecting an analysis rather more substantial than this, I must admit. I had imagined a set of qualitive criteria like originality, complexity, intrinsic beauty, popularity, etc. Then a kind of matrix of scores for each criterion for each of the main works, followed by a sensitivity analysis of some description.
> 
> Instead, all you offer us is that it's based on "guesswork" plus a few "chats" with your mates. Is this serious?


First of all, my list is just a list. I didn't say it was a perfect list. It's a list, that's all. Anyone on this website can make the same list. This list wasn't written on Mt Sinai

Secondly, they aren't exactly mates that I chatted with. I discussed things like this with people like Itzhak Perlman, Anne Sophie Mutter, Murray Perahia, Emanuel Ax, Leon Fleiser, James Levine, David Hurwitz and I was personal assistant to Rosalyn Tureck for nearly a year.

Why do you seem so offended by my list? Is your last name Reich?


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## Very Senior Member

DavidMahler said:


> First of all, my list is just a list. I didn't say it was a perfect list. It's a list, that's all. Anyone on this website can make the same list. This list wasn't written on Mt Sinai
> 
> Secondly, they aren't exactly mates that I chatted with. I discussed things like this with people like Itzhak Perlman, Anne Sophie Mutter, Murray Perahia, Emanuel Ax, Leon Fleiser, James Levine, David Hurwitz and I was personal assistant to Rosalyn Tureck for nearly a year.
> 
> Why do you seem so offended by my list? Is your last name Reich?


In putting forward such a well-thought-out looking list, I thought you might have given some information on how it was constructed. But there was nothing. When first asked by another member you tried to laugh it off. Then I asked you. But you didn't respond to me directly and what you wrote was all gloriously vague so I then asked for clarification.

You now tell us that the list is based on a discussion you say you have had with a name-dropping list of the great and the good. That's fine but none of this impresses me one iota as it still doesn't answer my question about what criteria were actually used as based on those discussions, and how you weighted each of these criteria together to derive your list.

If you have trouble answering the question in terms of specific criteria, perhaps you could explain why, for example, you placed Josquin des Prex in the No 7 position and Ravel in the No 29 th. Why the big difference? What was, say, Murray Perahia's opinion on this big discrepancy in ranks. I select these examples at random.

If it's just a list you dreamed up in your bath one night and has no backing in terms of musical criteria, that's fine just say so. At least we'll then all know that it's hardly the bees-knees among lists top composers, and I'll stop worrying about it and won't trouble you any further. As I said earlier, I'm very interested in learning more about different methodologies for assessing music and the ranking of composers etc, so I hope you won't mind me being a little persistent in pressing you to divulge further facts about your thought processes in deriving this list.


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## science

I developed a complicated mathematical algorithm for objectively ranking the greatness of composers, but it kept putting Tartini at number one, so I figured the devil was in the details.


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## science

science said:


> I developed a complicated mathematical algorithm for objectively ranking the greatness of composers, but it kept putting Tartini at number one, so I figured the devil was in the details.


BTW, that post ranks #3 on the list of my greatest talkclassical posts.


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## DavidMahler

My list is at once, something I dreamed up without any real definitive explanation, but also it is a decently well-rounded list from where I stand. I didn't sit there and prepare a list for several days/weeks checking record sales, concert programs, radio plays...none of that means anything anyway because there is no way to logically assess the importance and genius of different artists' contributions. 

I put Josquin at 7 because in his time he was the most influential and well known of all composers - probably among the 2 most well known composers of his century, and among the 5 most well-known preceding the late Baroque. But from a technical standpoint, his music represents the high renaissance at what the theorists of the time considered the greatest of perfection. When he passed, he was as beloved as Beethoven. His setting of L'homme Arme Mass was the most circulated and considered the greatest. He was one of the most pivotal composers in the advancement of polyphony.

Ravel, by comparison, who happens to be one of my all time favorite composers, was far less prolific, had a much narrower influence in terms of how much their music dominated the culture according historical documents. Although Ravel's music is far more enjoyable to me, I don't see how as a composer in history, his music could be considered of parallel significance to Josquin. 

BTW, it wasn't my intention to name drop, but you have been rather mad at my list. It's just a list. Means very little


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## PetrB

17. Pytor Il'yich Tchaikovsky (1840-1893 Russian)
30. Anton Bruckner (1824-1896 Austrian)
34. Richard Strauss (1864-1949 German)
44. Camille Saint-Saens (1835-1921 French)
51. Bedrich Smetana (1824-1884 Czech)
52. Paul Hindemith (1895-1963 German)
53. Georg Philipp Telemann (1681-1767 German)
54. Giacomo Puccini (1858-1924 Italian)
59. Edvard Grieg (1843-1907 Norwegian)
62. Edward Elgar (1857-1934)
64. Alexander Scriabin (1872-1915 Russian)
72. Cesar Franck (1822-1890 Belgian)
73. Ralph Vaughan-Williams (1872-1956 English)
74. Alexander Taneyev (1850-1918 Russian)
75. Alfred Schntitke (1934-1998 Russian)
79. Kristoff Penderecki (1933-n/a Polish)
81. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov (1848-1908 Russian)
83. Mikhail Glinka (1804-1857 Russian)
84. Edgar Varese (1883-1965 French)
88. Philip Glass (1937-n/a American)
93. Aaron Copland (1900-1990 American)
94. Alexander Borodin (1833-1887 Russian)
96. Isaac Albeniz (1860-1909 Spanish)
99. Steve Reich (1936-n/a American)

Hypothesis.... down to 76, with the above 24 'knocked off' by those who author Groves, the Larousse Encyclopedia, etc. who would your alternate 26 composers be?


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## armin

swap wagner and chopin!


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## Vaneyes

For me, such a list would be doable. IIRC my collection contains around 130 composers. But compiling the list would take maybe an hour or two...and It'd be time I'd never get back.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

1.Aemilius Paullus
2. Alexander the Great
3. Ambrose
4. Anaxagoras
5. Anaximander
6. Antoninus Pius - Roman E...
7. Apuleius
8. Aristophanes
9. Aristotle
10. Ashurbanipal
11. Attila the Hun
12. Augustine
13. Augustus
14. Aurelius - Marcus Aureli...
15. Caesar
16. Caligula
17. Catiline
18. Catullus
19. Cicero
20. Claudius
21. Clement of Alexandria
22. Confucius
23. Constantine
24. Croesus
25. Cyrus
26. Hadrian
27. Hannibal
28. Hanno of Carthage
29. Heraclitus
30. Hercules (Heracles - Her...
31. Hesiod
32. Homer
33. Honorius
34. Pelopidas
35. Pericles - Athenian Stat...
36. Petronius
37. Pindar
38. Plato
39. Pliny the Younger
40. Plotinus
41. Polybius
42. Pompey
43. Pontius Pilate
44. Proclus Diadochus
45. Propertius
46. Ptolemy, Claudius
47. Pupienus
48. Pyrrho
49. Pythagoras
50. Sargon II
51. Sargon the Great
52. Semonides
53. Sennacherib
54. Septimius Severus
55. Siddhartha Gautama - Buddha
56. Socrates
57. Solon the Law-Giver
58. Spartacus
59. Sulla
60. Sun Tzu (0)

Ooops / Damn wrong list...............

Glad I work that out before I got to 100!!


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## ahammel

I've heard that Percy Grainger developed a composer rating system that took into account beauty and originality and so forth, by which Grainger himself came equal ninth.

I don't see him on there, so I guess you did something wrong :lol:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Thanks - I knew there was some thing wrong with my list but I just could not put my finger on it.... and it was so obvious!:tiphat:

1. Edgard Varese
2. Alexander the Great
3. Ambrose
4. Anaxagoras
5. Anaximander
6. Antoninus Pius - Roman E...
7. Apuleius
8. Aristophanes
9. Percy Grainger
10. Ashurbanipal
11. Attila the Hun
12. Augustine
13. Augustus
14. Aurelius - Marcus Aureli...
15. Caesar
16. Caligula
17. Catiline
18. Catullus
19. Cicero
20. Claudius
21. Clement of Alexandria
22. Confucius
23. Constantine
24. Croesus
25. Cyrus
26. Hadrian
27. Hannibal
28. Hanno of Carthage
29. Heraclitus
30. Hercules (Heracles - Her...
31. Hesiod
32. Homer
33. Honorius
34. Pelopidas
35. Pericles - Athenian Stat...
36. Petronius
37. Pindar
38. Plato
39. Pliny the Younger
40. Plotinus
41. Polybius
42. Pompey
43. Pontius Pilate
44. Proclus Diadochus
45. Propertius
46. Ptolemy, Claudius
47. Pupienus
48. Pyrrho
49. Pythagoras
50. Sargon II
51. Sargon the Great
52. Semonides
53. Sennacherib
54. Septimius Severus
55. Siddhartha Gautama - Buddha
56. Socrates
57. Solon the Law-Giver
58. Spartacus
59. Sulla
60. Sun Tzu (0)


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## StevenOBrien

> 47. Carl Maria Von Webern


Nice work.


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## JohnMinster

Ah, that explains Palestrina at no. 5


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## Pugg

JohnMinster said:


> Ah, that explains Palestrina at no. 5


Explants what precisely ?


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## Bettina

I'll try doing a list of my favorite composers, ranked in order of preference. I probably won't get to 100, but let's see how far I can make it...

1. Beethoven
2. Mozart
3. J.S. Bach
4. Haydn
5. Liszt
6. Debussy
7. Ravel
8. Chopin
9. Brahms
10. Schumann
11. Handel
12. Dvorak
13. Berlioz
14. Saint-Saëns 
15. Schubert
16. Tchaikovsky
17. Mendelssohn
18. Wagner
19. Franck
20. Bartok
21. Bizet
22. Copland
23. Rachmaninoff
24. Mussorgsky
25. Hummel
26. Alkan
27. CPE Bach
28. Sweelinck
29. Grieg
30. Vivaldi
31. Massenet
32. Borodin
33. Khachaturian
34. Glinka
35. Verdi
36. Poulenc
37. Smetana
38. Faure
39. Janacek
40. Respighi
41. Vaughan Williams
42. Delibes
43. Gliere
44. Clementi
45. Tubin
46. Macdowell
47. Buxtehude
48. Elgar
49. Milhaud
50. Stravinsky
51. Rimsky-Korsakov
52. Donizetti
53. Liadov
54. De Severac
55. Turina
56. Villa-Lobos
57. Britten
58. Ries
59. Purcell
60. Balakirev

That's all that I feel like doing for now...that pretty much covers my favorites (although I'm probably forgetting some). Maybe I'll come back later and add more if I'm in the mood.


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## Tchaikov6

Bettina said:


> I'll try doing a list of my favorite composers, ranked in order of preference. I probably won't get to 100, but let's see how far I can make it...
> 
> 1. Beethoven
> 2. Mozart
> 3. J.S. Bach
> 4. Haydn
> 5. Liszt
> 6. Debussy
> 7. Ravel
> 8. Chopin
> 9. Brahms
> 10. Schumann
> 11. Handel
> 12. Dvorak
> 13. Berlioz
> 14. Saint-Saëns
> 15. Schubert
> 16. Tchaikovsky
> 17. Mendelssohn
> 18. Wagner
> 19. Franck
> 20. Bartok
> 21. Bizet
> 22. Copland
> 23. Rachmaninoff
> 24. Mussorgsky
> 25. Hummel
> 26. Alkan
> 27. CPE Bach
> 28. Sweelinck
> 29. Grieg
> 30. Vivaldi
> 31. Massenet
> 32. Borodin
> 33. Khachaturian
> 34. Glinka
> 35. Verdi
> 36. Poulenc
> 37. Smetana
> 38. Faure
> 39. Janacek
> 40. Respighi
> 41. Vaughan Williams
> 42. Delibes
> 43. Gliere
> 44. Clementi
> 45. Tubin
> 46. Macdowell
> 47. Buxtehude
> 48. Elgar
> 49. Milhaud
> 50. Stravinsky
> 51. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 52. Donizetti
> 53. Liadov
> 54. De Severac
> 55. Turina
> 56. Villa-Lobos
> 57. Britten
> 58. Ries
> 59. Purcell
> 60. Balakirev
> 
> That's all that I feel like doing for now...that pretty much covers my favorites (although I'm probably forgetting some). Maybe I'll come back later and add more if I'm in the mood.


Did you forget Mahler or do you really rank Balakirev and Purcell above him?


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## Bettina

Tchaikov6 said:


> Did you forget Mahler or do you really rank Balakirev and Purcell above him?


Well, I guess it's time for me to make my shameful confession, which I've posted about a few times before: I don't like Mahler (yet).  His music sounds aimless and meandering to me, which is definitely my fault and not his. I'll keep on trying!


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Well, I guess it's time for me to make my shameful confession, which I've posted about a few times before: I don't like Mahler (yet).  His music sounds aimless and meandering to me, which is definitely my fault and not his. I'll keep on trying!


Not a crime. Like whom you like!


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## Chronochromie

Bettina said:


> Well, I guess it's time for me to make my shameful confession, which I've posted about a few times before: I don't like Mahler (yet).  His music sounds aimless and meandering to me, which is definitely my fault and not his. I'll keep on trying!


Here's hoping you give Rameau another chance too!


----------



## Bettina

Chronochromie said:


> Here's hoping you give Rameau another chance too!


Thanks for reminding me about Rameau. I actually do like him, particularly his harpsichord music. However, he hasn't (yet) risen to the level of being on my list of favorites. It would be great if you could recommend some works that I might enjoy. I'm always interested in expanding my list!


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Bettina said:


> I'll try doing a list of my favorite composers, ranked in order of preference. I probably won't get to 100, but let's see how far I can make it...
> 
> 1. Beethoven
> 2. Mozart
> 3. J.S. Bach
> 4. Haydn
> 5. Liszt
> 6. Debussy
> 7. Ravel
> 8. Chopin
> 9. Brahms
> 10. Schumann
> 11. Handel
> 12. Dvorak
> 13. Berlioz
> 14. Saint-Saëns
> 15. Schubert
> 16. Tchaikovsky
> 17. Mendelssohn
> 18. Wagner
> 19. Franck
> 20. Bartok
> 21. Bizet
> 22. Copland
> 23. Rachmaninoff
> 24. Mussorgsky
> 25. Hummel
> 26. Alkan
> 27. CPE Bach
> 28. Sweelinck
> 29. Grieg
> 30. Vivaldi
> 31. Massenet
> 32. Borodin
> 33. Khachaturian
> 34. Glinka
> 35. Verdi
> 36. Poulenc
> 37. Smetana
> 38. Faure
> 39. Janacek
> 40. Respighi
> 41. Vaughan Williams
> 42. Delibes
> 43. Gliere
> 44. Clementi
> 45. Tubin
> 46. Macdowell
> 47. Buxtehude
> 48. Elgar
> 49. Milhaud
> 50. Stravinsky
> 51. Rimsky-Korsakov
> 52. Donizetti
> 53. Liadov
> 54. De Severac
> 55. Turina
> 56. Villa-Lobos
> 57. Britten
> 58. Ries
> 59. Purcell
> 60. Balakirev
> 
> That's all that I feel like doing for now...that pretty much covers my favorites (although I'm probably forgetting some). Maybe I'll come back later and add more if I'm in the mood.


You don't like Shostakovich either or an omission?


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## Bettina

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> You don't like Shostakovich either or an omission?


Haha, this thread is totally turning into an analysis of my musical tastes! :lol: Yep, I've got to admit that Shostakovich is currently not one of my favorites. Nothing against your avatar, which I like very much! I actually do enjoy reading about the political contexts for Shostakovich's music, and hopefully he'll become one of my favorites at some point.


----------



## Chronochromie

Bettina said:


> Thanks for reminding me about Rameau. I actually do like him, particularly his harpsichord music. However, he hasn't (yet) risen to the level of being on my list of favorites. It would be great if you could recommend some works that I might enjoy. I'm always interested in expanding my list!


What have you heard by him?

Here are some recommendations:

Pieces de clavecin en concert

Pygmalion (a 50 minute opera-ballet)

Hippolyte et Aricie

Castor et Pollux (1754 version)

Les fetes d'Hébé
For some sampling you could try Minkowski's album of orchestral excerpts _Une symphonie imaginaire_ and an album of arias like Sabine Devieilhe's _Le Grand Theatre de l'amour_.


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## Bettina

Chronochromie said:


> What have you heard by him?
> 
> Here are some recommendations:
> 
> Pieces de clavecin en concert
> 
> Pygmalion (a 50 minute opera-ballet)
> 
> Hippolyte et Aricie
> 
> Castor et Pollux (1754 version)
> 
> Les fetes d'Hébé
> For some sampling you could try Minkowski's album of orchestral excerpts _Une symphonie imaginaire_ and an album of arias like Sabine Devieilhe's _Le Grand Theatre de l'amour_.


Thanks for the recommendations. I've heard bits and pieces of those works, but I've never listened to them all the way through. I'll definitely give them a try.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Bettina said:


> Haha, this thread is totally turning into an analysis of my musical tastes! :lol: Yep, I've got to admit that Shostakovich is currently not one of my favorites. Nothing against your avatar, which I like very much! I actually do enjoy reading about the political contexts for Shostakovich's music, and hopefully he'll become one of my favorites at some point.


What's my avatar got to do with your taste?


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## hpowders

I just assumed it was Woody Allen.


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## Bettina

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> What's my avatar got to do with your taste?


Your avatar is a pic of Shostakovich (I think...) I just wanted to assure you that I do like that picture, even though Shosty is not in my top 60 composers.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Bettina said:


> Your avatar is a pic of Shostakovich (I think...) I just wanted to assure you that I do like that picture, even though Shosty is not in my top 60 composers.


My avatar is Shostakovich? And here I thought it was a commie Harry Potter!

Don't worry, I won't get offended if you didn't like my avatar but I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I was sincerely surprised you didn't include Shostakovich since he wrote some very beautiful piano music.


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## hpowders

I shoulda known. That tie looks like it is pulled tight like a noose around his neck. A stalinistic giveaway!


----------



## Bettina

Because my list has generated so much (unexpected!) interest and attention, I feel motivated to continue:

61. Puccini
62. Scarlatti
63. Rossini
64. Byrd
65. Kabalevsky
66. Couperin
67. Scriabin
68. Rameau (see, he DID make it on my list! )
69. Ockeghem
70. Bellini
71. Prokofiev
72. Messiaen
73. Corelli
74. Gershwin
75. Granados
76. Chabrier
77. Richard Strauss
78. Berg
79. Monteverdi
80. Satie
81. Shostakovich (yep, here he is at last! )
82. Chausson
83. Honegger
84. Lekeu
85. Gibbons
86. Joplin (does he count as classical? We've had debates about this on TC)
87. De Falla
88. Ibert
89. Gretchaninoff
90. Weber
91. Biber
92. Heller
93. Schoenberg
94. Burgmüller
95. Mahler (yes, I must admit that he is quite far down on my list! )
96. Dohnányi 
97. Casella
98. Barber
99. Frescobaldi
100. Telemann


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## Pugg

> 81. Shostakovich (yep, here he is at last!


I do hope it's your own choice and not being bullied in toward this .


----------



## Bettina

Pugg said:


> I do hope it's your own choice and not being bullied in toward this .


Thanks for your concern. It definitely is my own choice--I like Shostakovich even though he's not in my top 50. TwoFlutesOneTrumpet wasn't bullying me at all...he was just curious about my musical tastes.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Pugg said:


> I do hope it's your own choice and not being bullied in toward this .


I did threaten to take Bettina's lunch money.


----------



## Pugg

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I did threaten to take Bettina's lunch money.


O NO....it was not intended at you personally, if you feel that way please do except my apologise.


----------



## Bettina

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I did threaten to take Bettina's lunch money.


Yeah, and you kept on pulling my pigtails. Finally, to make you stop, I agreed to listen to all 15 Shostakovich symphonies in one sitting! :lol:


----------



## Francis Poulenc

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I would consider Schoenberg one of the most important composers in the history of music. Without him where would our music be today?


It would be a hell of a lot better.


----------



## hpowders

1. J.S. Bach
2. W.A. Mozart
3. Brahms
4. Mendelssohn
5. Beethoven
6. Haydn
7. Handel
8. Shostakovich
9. Ives
10. Copland
11. Schuman
12. Schoenberg
13. Sibelius
11. Verdi
12. Puccini
13. Wagner
14. Tchaikovsky
15. Britten
16. Barber
17. Walton
18. Gershwin
19. Berlioz
20. Bartok
21. Debussy
22. Ravel
23. Mahler
24. Persichetti

That's as far as I go, as I find other composers not included here irrelevant to my listening needs.

Therefore listing any composer from 25-100, would simply be a meaningless exercise to me.

Over half my choices are from the twentieth century, by the way.


----------



## hpowders

bettina said:


> i'll try doing a list of my favorite composers, ranked in order of preference. I probably won't get to 100, but let's see how far i can make it...
> 
> 1. Beethoven
> 2. Mozart
> 3. J.s. Bach
> 4. Haydn
> 5. Liszt
> 6. Debussy
> 7. Ravel
> 8. Chopin
> 9. Brahms
> 10. Schumann
> 11. Handel
> 12. Dvorak
> 13. Berlioz
> 14. Saint-saëns
> 15. Schubert
> 16. Tchaikovsky
> 17. Mendelssohn
> 18. Wagner
> 19. Franck
> 20. Bartok
> 21. Bizet
> 22. Copland
> 23. Rachmaninoff
> 24. Mussorgsky
> 25. Hummel
> 26. Alkan
> 27. Cpe bach
> 28. Sweelinck
> 29. Grieg
> 30. Vivaldi
> 31. Massenet
> 32. Borodin
> 33. Khachaturian
> 34. Glinka
> 35. Verdi
> 36. Poulenc
> 37. Smetana
> 38. Faure
> 39. Janacek
> 40. Respighi
> 41. Vaughan williams
> 42. Delibes
> 43. Gliere
> 44. Clementi
> 45. Tubin
> 46. Macdowell
> 47. Buxtehude
> 48. Elgar
> 49. Milhaud
> 50. Stravinsky
> 51. Rimsky-korsakov
> 52. Donizetti
> 53. Liadov
> 54. De severac
> 55. Turina
> 56. Villa-lobos
> 57. Britten
> 58. Ries
> 59. Purcell
> 60. Balakirev
> 
> that's all that i feel like doing for now...that pretty much covers my favorites (although i'm probably forgetting some). Maybe i'll come back later and add more if i'm in the mood.





bettina said:


> because my list has generated so much (unexpected!) interest and attention, i feel motivated to continue:
> 
> 61. Puccini
> 62. Scarlatti
> 63. Rossini
> 64. Byrd
> 65. Kabalevsky
> 66. Couperin
> 67. Scriabin
> 68. Rameau (see, he did make it on my list! )
> 69. Ockeghem
> 70. Bellini
> 71. Prokofiev
> 72. Messiaen
> 73. Corelli
> 74. Gershwin
> 75. Granados
> 76. Chabrier
> 77. Richard strauss
> 78. Berg
> 79. Monteverdi
> 80. Satie
> 81. Shostakovich (yep, here he is at last! )
> 82. Chausson
> 83. Honegger
> 84. Lekeu
> 85. Gibbons
> 86. Joplin (does he count as classical? We've had debates about this on tc)
> 87. De falla
> 88. Ibert
> 89. Gretchaninoff
> 90. Weber
> 91. Biber
> 92. Heller
> 93. Schoenberg
> 94. Burgmüller
> 95. Mahler (yes, i must admit that he is quite far down on my list! )
> 96. Dohnányi
> 97. Casella
> 98. Barber
> 99. Frescobaldi
> 100. Telemann


 No William Walton?????? :lol:

Just kidding!


----------

