# New wave of young female artists who make arty, edgy pop



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

In the 90s and early 2000s young female pop stars were associated with bubblegum pop and their music was mostly just lighthearted entertainment. They didn't take themselves seriously. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It was just meant to sell well and to be a summer hit. Britney Spears is probably the most canonical example of this type of pop stars.

But something has changed. Recently there has been a significant wave of very young female musicians who take themselves very seriously, and who try to make daring, artistic, edgy music. I am not sure if this whole trend is fully authentic, or perhaps this too is engineered (_Perhaps people in charge of music industry have realized that nowadays, when socially conscious hip hop, me too movement, and woke culture in general are trending highly in public discourse - *socially conscious, ambitious, feminist pop would sell very well too*_) , but whatever is the case, it's hard not to notice really large number of very young female artists who make ambitious, experimental, very modern, edgy music, and manage to achieve huge popularity with this.

I hope it's not engineered though. Perhaps it's consequence of further emancipation and self determination of kids from affluent families... so they can afford these days to make such sophisticated music that wasn't the case in the past.

Perhaps this trend started with the likes of Lana del Ray, Grimes and Lorde, but it has definitely established itself with Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo...

I've taken a notice also of Spanish singer Rosalia though she's a bit more into hip hop, but has otherwise similar esthetic.

What do you think of this whole trend?

Here's one of the most recent songs by Billie Eilish, which, IMO is not forgettable type of pop that we've seen in 90s... Perhaps even a bit pretentious... but in general I kind of like it...


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Another hit from this new "genre" shall we say?






Your opinion?

IMO, it feels a bit weird that so young people take themselves so seriously... but I guess it's just me.
Weird yes, but I think it's a good thing.

I just know when I was her age I was way less serious. I mean, I *was *serious about various kinds of things, but I didn't take *myself *that seriously.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Unfortunately for me, the likes of Ella Fitzgerald, Barbra Streisand, Billie Holiday, Judy Garland, Julie London, Nina Simone. Sarah Vaughan ... and in more recent times Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick, Patricia Barber, Chrissie Hynde, Alicia Keys, Diana Krall, Teena Marie ... and a few others haven't yet worn out their welcome enough for me to spend what precious time I have left exploring beyond these tried and true angelic vocal cords. 

But I will keep options for further explorations open, as always.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

*This song rocks, even on the very first listen:*


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

It's true that there seems to have been an increase in the number of solo female artists gaining commercial success, but there has been a long tradition of female singer-songwriters who "took themselves seriously" and were not just manufactured by the music industry. You might want to look back at least to the 1960s for Carole King and Joni Mitchell, the 1970s for Kate Bush and Joan Armatrading.

One of my favourites from the 1990s is Stina Nordenstam.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

ZJovicic said:


> Perhaps this trend started with the likes of Lana del Ray, Grimes and Lorde, but it has definitely established itself with Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo...


From a bit back, but Gaga was one of the earlier ones I remember in that sort of edgy, artistically elevated mode among woman pop stars - MIA as well.

As the above post said, there's many older cases of solo female artist creating "serious pop" like Kate Bush, too. I'd put someone like kd lang or PJ Harvey in that category in the 90s. The modern ones seem to take a more postmodern view where the concept of pop fame is a deliberate part of the image, though (this was especially true with Gaga and currently with Lana Del Rey - maybe this started with Madonna? I certainly remember her to be one of the first notable woman pop artists to deliberately play with the concept of the artifice of pop as part of her image).

In all honesty I have trouble listening to this stuff because it reminds me that I'm getting old.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Yeah Lady Gaga as well... she was a bit more typically commercial, but still she made some edgy stuff, and songs that stood test of time. Bad Romance is a typical example:






In my opinion great song, and smashing hit, deservedly so.

But I think Billie Elilish and Olivia Rodrigo are even more weird, arty, radical, different, whatever... which didn't hurt their popularity.

Lady Gaga was still a bit more standard pop.

PJ Harvy, Kate Bush, etc, on the other hand are even less commercial and more indie/arty, but they never achieved mainstream popularity.

With Billie Eilish the weird thing is that she's both very radical and very popular at the same time.

Perhaps, indeed, Madonna is the most similar example from the past. She also did some edgy and shocking things, and she was insanely popular. But Madonna was also always deeply rooted in pop. Shocking, yes, but still pop...

Billie Eilish kind of managed to leave the pop territory almost completely, and to retain popularity typical of pop music.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

St. Vincent would definitely fall into that category. In addition to being musically edgy, she's all about female empowerment. All the men in her band wear a stocking mask, so they're completely faceless.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

ZJovicic said:


> Perhaps this trend started with the likes of Lana del Ray, Grimes and Lorde, but it has definitely established itself with Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo...


Great opening post. I'd add Halsey and Courtney Barnett to this list.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

progmatist said:


> St. Vincent would definitely fall into that category. In addition to being musically edgy, she's all about female empowerment. All the men in her band wear a stocking mask, so they're completely faceless.


Good call.

But maybe she is from a different era. Yes, I know she is still active but I would not put her in this group. Maybe in a group with PJ Harvey and Amy Winehouse.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

ZJovicic said:


> Billie Eilish the weird thing is that she's both very radical.


You mean like Hendrix or Stones at birth?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

SONNET CLV said:


> Unfortunately for me, the likes of Ella Fitzgerald, Barbra Streisand, Billie Holiday, Judy Garland, Julie London, Nina Simone. Sarah Vaughan ... and in more recent times Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick, Patricia Barber, Chrissie Hynde, Alicia Keys, Diana Krall, Teena Marie ... and a few others haven't yet worn out their welcome enough for me to spend what precious time I have left exploring beyond these tried and true angelic vocal cords.
> 
> But I will keep options for further explorations open, as always.


Don't say that! You always have time for new! :devil:


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

My problem with the POP genre is that the music is generally bereft of any interesting ideas. Artists like Gaga and Eilish present an interesting image, but that's where the 'edgy' schtick ends. Their music is woefully pedestrian and predictable—it bores to tears.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Fans of this style maybe interested in the newest release from this LA band (now located in NY), Sloppy Jane. There are some definite nods to Kate Bush.

While this style isn't something I am into, this artist seems quite a bit more creative than most.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Not mentioned yet: Eivør from the Faroe Islands.

I replayed over a thousand of my pop/rock albums in the second half of 2020 and early this year, aiming to make a list of about 500 favourites. In the end, the list now contains 546 albums, 5 of which by Eivør: _Krákan_, _Eivør_, _Larva_, _Bridges_, and _Slør _- which I would probably pick as for me the best of her work.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

There have always been women on the fringes making challenging, artful music going back at least to the times of Joni Mitchell. The popularity of such "serious music" (in general) waxes and wanes. Think of how the fun, frivolous, party music of the 80s gave way to the dark, downbeat 90s with a genre like grunge essentially ending the era of glam/hair rock/metal. In the 90s Bjork is the most obvious example who springs to mind, and she was massively popular as well as being arguably the most avant-garde pop artist in the world, male or female, and was hugely influential in bringing serious electronic music to the mainstream (even doing it before Radiohead). Lana Del Rey was mentioned, and while I do appreciate her in small doses, her entire aesthetic was taken from Mazzy Star and Hope Sandoval from the 90s: 




Granted, I can't think of any examples from the 00s, but the 00s (and most of the 10s) struck me as similar to the 80s as "party decades" where fun, light pop dominated and there was a general dearth of popular "serious" artists, male or female. So in that respect Eilish has certainly made that style popular again. I also really enjoyed her last album, which was a huge maturation both musically and lyrically from her first, and is one of the best produced albums I've heard in a long while. Another name I'd mention is FKA Twigs. I loved both of her solo albums, and her music sounds even "edgier" than Eilish's (which, honestly, is mostly a poppier take on downtempo and trap music with her distinctive "low-energy" vocal style over it): 



^ Probably the single best performance I've ever seen on a Late Night talk show.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

ZJovicic said:


> PJ Harvy, Kate Bush, etc, on the other hand are even less commercial and more indie/arty, but they never achieved mainstream popularity.
> 
> With Billie Eilish the weird thing is that she's both very radical and very popular at the same time.


Kate Bush was the first solo female artist with a #1 song in the UK, which happened to be the debut single off her debut album. Songs like Running Up That Hill and A Woman's Work were also big hits and have been covered multiple times. She might not have been a worldwide "star" the way Madonna was, but I think it's wrong to say she never achieved mainstream popularity. I mean, it's useful to remember that sometimes artists can be stars within only parts of the world. Kylie Minogue is a great example of a worldwide star that, for whatever reason, never really broke through in the USA, yet she's massively popular in the UK, Australia, and just about everywhere else.

As I said in my last post, I definitely enjoy Eilish and I loved her last album, but I think you're overselling her radicalness. Her music is mostly a mix of various downtempo and trap styles that have been popular in electronic music and hip-hop. Over that she's adding her distinctive low-energy vocal styles with some very catchy vocal hooks and extremely clean production that helps to highlight them. It's very much a pop-ification of other genres that have been floating around the pop world for a while. Probably the edgiest thing about her isn't the music but rather in her image, where she's cultivating the depressed, emo teenager thing, which I'm actually glad to see her somewhat growing out of already on her latest album and drawing on more diverse influences (like jazz torch songs). Even within the same genre I think FKA Twigs (especially on LP1 and her EPs) is much more radical sonically.

I'd also throw out a name like Janelle Monae who, despite being more traditional pop in one sense is insanely creative with how she mixes and matches a plethora of genres. Her ArchAndroid concept album is a mish-mash of funk, soul, pop, psychedelia, movie soundtracks, hip-hop, R&B, etc. It sounds like the crazy lovechild of Prince, Michael Jackson, Bowie, and Outkast, and while it doesn't have the "dark edginess" of Eilish et al. it's just as artistically substantial (if not more so).


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

History of Heat

by *SADAF*

bandcamp


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