# Great conductors No 2 Herbert von Karajan



## DavidA

Herbert von Karajan - Austria (1908-1989)









A controversial figure all his life, not least for his membership of the Nazi Party in the 1930s, Karajan nevertheless rose to be the most prominent conductor in the world. In the process he left a series of breathtaking recordings, some of which have never been bettered.

Just a few in my collection:

































What are your favourites?


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## Orfeo

His Bruckner cycle is like no other and is probably the best to date (strong contenders incl. Wand, maybe Haitink, Asahina Takashi perhaps, Barenboim's Teldec cycle).

*Others:*
Puccini's "Madame Butterfly" (with Callas under the EMI label).
Bruckner's Seventh with the VPO.
Strauss' Alpine Symphony.
Mahler's Ninth.
Mendelssohn's Symphonies.
Verdi's "Otello" (yes, that one, with Del Monaco, Tebaldi, et al.).


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## shadowdancer

I find quite interesting this idea about Conductors. 
As I did with Bernstein, I would like to point a record outside the conductor "every day" records. 
In my opinion, those are the records that show what those guys were up to.
Karajan Brahms, Bruckner and so on, are out of discussion. The guy was a champion.

But, as a Karajan fan, I think this one below also belongs to this list. 
For sure, Karajan was not a Mahler conductor, but here he shows what he can do.


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## DavidA

shadowdancer said:


> I find quite interesting this idea about Conductors.
> As I did with Bernstein, I would like to point a record outside the conductor "every day" records.
> In my opinion, those are the records that show what those guys were up to.
> Karajan Brahms, Bruckner and so on, are out of discussion. The guy was a champion.
> 
> But, as a Karajan fan, I think this one below also belongs to this list.
> For sure, Karajan was not a Mahler conductor, but here he shows what he can do.
> View attachment 61302


Yes not a 'Mahlerian' but produced one of the greatest Mahler discs ever!


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## DavidA

There were the classic 50s opera recordings like this one


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## Blancrocher

Karajan is my favorite conductor in many things, but particularly in Sibelius. The following page has the complete discography, which I've gotten to know pretty well over the years:

http://www.karajan.co.uk/sibelius.html

His symphony set for DG with Okku Kamu is desert island for me.

Kamu is an interesting figure in his own right, btw. In 1969 he won the inaugural "Karajan Conducting Competition." One of the rewards for winning the competition was the chance to tour with the Berlin Philharmonic. Apparently this tour was a disaster for Kamu, and he was unable to elicit strong performances for an eclectic program that included the likes of Rautavaara. He had many rocky years following this traumatic experience, though he has had success with numerous orchestras and has produced many recordings. I suspect that Karajan included him on one of his greatest sets as a special favor for a kind of protege.


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## shadowdancer

Blancrocher said:


> Karajan is my favorite conductor in many things, but particularly in Sibelius. The following page has the complete discography, which I've gotten to know pretty well over the years:
> 
> http://www.karajan.co.uk/sibelius.html
> 
> His symphony set for DG with Okku Kamu is desert island for me.
> 
> Kamu is an interesting figure in his own right, btw. In 1969 he won the inaugural "Karajan Conducting Competition." One of the rewards for winning the competition was the chance to tour with the Berlin Philharmonic. Apparently this tour was a disaster for Kamu, and he was unable to elicit strong performances for an eclectic program that included the likes of Rautavaara. He had many rocky years following this traumatic experience, though he has had success with numerous orchestras and has produced many recordings. I suspect that Karajan included him on one of his greatest sets as a special favor for a kind of protege.
> 
> View attachment 61307


Fully agreed. I am a happy owner of this set as well. A really fine reading of Sibelius.


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## donnie a

What do others here think of Karajan's Mozart? I used to despise his symphony recordings; they were to heavy, Germanic sounding for me. But strangely enough, I later came to like them, especially the Haffner. Although they may not be my first choice most of the time, I hear things in those recordings which no others have.


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## Pip

DavidA said:


> Yes not a 'Mahlerian' but produced one of the greatest Mahler discs ever!


For a " non Mahlerian" he did more than well, conducting symphonies 4.5.6.9 and Das Lied von der Erde, many times in concert as well as recording them. I'd give him the Mahler Medal for that.
Same for Sibelius, probably one of the three greatest Sibelius conductors ever, although he never conducted the third symphony.
Add his prowess in Wagner, Verdi , Puccini, Strauss, Mozart, Beethoven ect, where does one stop,
He was the greatest. I object to his being posted as number 2, especially as I had no sympathy for number 1, but no matter in which order the list is arranged he will always benumber 1 with me.


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## DavidA

donnie a said:


> What do others here think of Karajan's Mozart? I used to despise his symphony recordings; they were to heavy, Germanic sounding for me. But strangely enough, I later came to like them, especially the Haffner. Although they may not be my first choice most of the time, I hear things in those recordings which no others have.


Karajan's Mozart was extraordinarily variable. I have his DG and EMI set from the 70s. Whereas the DG is high on polish and somewhat superficial, his EMI performances are very dramatic and conducted with real flair. His mood was everything, so they said! von Stade said the Decca Figaro he recorded in 1977 was a run through as he was in a mood at the time! Yet his theatre performances of the same period were intense and dramatic.


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## DavidA

Pip said:


> I object to his being posted as number 2, especially as I had no sympathy for number 1, but no matter in which order the list is arranged he will always benumber 1 with me.


I'm sure the list is entirely as they happen to appear in the thread not in order of merit!


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## Marschallin Blair

I can't even begin to list my favorite Karajan recordings-- as he did so many exquisite things and his recorded legacy is so vast.

A couple of the more prominent ones which come immediately to mind are:

- the late-fifties EMI/Philharmonia _Rosenkavalier_ with the Duchess-of-Duchesses, and Marschallin-of-Marschallins, Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf-- which has orchestral contours, balances, and singing of such sublime beauty, that I'm simply at a loss for words to amplify and expound on all of its virtues.

- the '74 DG Strauss _Zarathustra_, _Four Last Songs _(with Gundula Janowitz), and _Death and Transfiguration_

- the late-fifties EMI/Philharmonia _Falstaff_ with Tito Gobi, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, and Anna Moffo

- the 1960 EMI/Philharmonia Sibelius _Fifth_, with its caressing elegances and triumphant climaxes is perhaps my favorite Sibelius performance of all time outside of his late sixties DG/BPO _Tapiola_.

- the aforementioned DG/BPO sixties _Tapiola_ _;D_

- the digital EMI/BPO Sibelius _Sixth_

- the mid-seventies DG/BPO Bruckner _Symphonies Four_ and _Eight_

- the DG/BPO Liszt tone poems _Tasso_ and _Les Preludes_

- the '72 EMI/BPO Tchaikovsky's _Fifth_ and _Pathetique_

- the '75 DG/BPO Beethoven's _Ninth_

- the '52 _Meistersinger_ with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf

- the '51 Bayreuth Act III of_ Die Walkure _

- the DG/BPO _Ring_ from the late sixties

- the '52 Bayreuth _Tristan_ with Modal and Vinay

- the late fifties EMI/Philharmonia _Ariadne auf Naxos_ with Miss Elisabeth

- the mid-sixties DG/BPO Sibelius _Fourth_

- the mid-sixties DG/BPO _La Mer_

- the mid-seventies EMI/BPO _Fidelio_ with Helga Dernesch-- which is exquisitely and poignantly beautiful and sublime beyond compare.

- the mid-seventies EMI/BPO _Tristan_ with Vickers and Dernesch

- the EMI/BPO _Don Carlos_ and _Othello_

- the digital DG/BPO Beethoven _Sixth_

- the seventies DG/BPO Tchaikovsky's _Second_

- the DG/BPO _Parsifal_

- the early fifties EMI _Cosi _with my cousin Elisabeth _;D_

- the '82 DG live recording of Mahler's _Ninth_

- the mid-seventies DG Mahler's_ Fifth_

- the. . . there's just too many to list really

Without cavil or qualification Karajan gets my vote for_ Greatest Conductor of the Twentieth Century._ He's done more first-rate masterworks masterfully than anyone I can think of, and by an order of magnitude.


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## Triplets

DavidA said:


> Yes not a 'Mahlerian' but produced one of the greatest Mahler discs ever!


It is a good 9, but I think he did great 5&6


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## elgar's ghost

I have numerous recordings of his but the real standouts has to be his Beethoven set from the 60s plus two or three of his Bruckner. The only reservation I have is his EMI Schubert Symphonies 1-4 - they seem to lack a little charm to me (much prefer Harnoncourt here).


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## jflatter

I thought Karajan was great in Strauss (Alpine Symphony and 1st recording of Der Rosenkavalier in particular). I also think he doesn't get the props for his Italian opera output. His Falstaff is brilliant, as is his live Trovatore from Salzburg. Funnily the one area I never got on with Karajan was his Wagner.


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## PetrB

shadowdancer said:


> I find quite interesting this idea about Conductors.
> As I did with Bernstein, I would like to point a record outside the conductor "every day" records.
> In my opinion, those are the records that show what those guys were up to.
> Karajan Brahms, Bruckner and so on, are out of discussion. The guy was a champion.
> 
> But, as a Karajan fan, I think this one below also belongs to this list.
> For sure, Karajan was not a Mahler conductor, but here he shows what he can do.
> View attachment 61302


He was more than quite at home with the breadth of most of the romantic repertoire, his fort more than anything either side of that era.


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## GKC

Marschallin Blair said:


> - the mid-seventies DG/BPO Bruckner _Symphonies Four_ and _Eight_


And the Fifth.

What do you guys think of his '88 and '89 DG Bruckner 8th and 7th?



> - the early fifties EMI _Cosi _with my cousin Elisabeth _;D_


Really?


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## DavidA

Not forgetting the EMI recordings of Bruckner 4 & 7 made in the 1970s. Very beautiful indeed!


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## GioCar

I was overexposed to Karajan when I was a boy. 
At that time in my family it seemed he was the only conductor on earth so when I grew up and started choosing things by myself I had a rejection on all his recordings.
I started changing my mind years after, when I bought myself his recording of the Ring on CD. As strange it may seems, my parents had this on LP but I deliberately never played it...










So this is possibly my Karajan's favourite recording.


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## Haydn man

My introduction to Karajan came with his eighties sets of Beethoven and late Mozart symphonies, and I loved them and still do. The Mozart was all big band stuff, but as they said in the Penguin Guide at the time 'big band, but what a band'
From there it was his mentoring of Anne Sophie Mutter particularly Brahms Violin Concerto.
His Bruckner I tried, but to be honest although the playing was wonderful I found Bruckner just too slow to hold my attention.
I doubt we wil ever see his like again, and no orchestra today would likely tolerate his methods. However he is a great in my opinion


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## phlrdfd

I still prefer Furtwangler, but over the years my fondess for Karajan's conducting has grown to the point where he is one of my favorites. I have numerous recordings by him (and I'm awaiting an order that includes a Warner set of newly remastered EMI recordings of Bruckner, Wagner, Strauss, etc. with the BPO; mainly 70s recordings I think).
While I'd probably say I like Karajan as much as anyone as a Bruckner conductor, with the exception of the fifth, my favorite Bruckner recording by him are not from his complete cycle. I prefer the EMI 4th and 7th, as well as the VPO 7th and 8th, and the 60s 9th. My favorite 8th is probably his VPO performance from the late 70s on a DG DVD.
He is also one of my favorite conductors for Richard Strauss tone poems, especially the 60s and 70s BPO recordings on DG. 
While there is Beethoven out there that I like more, the 60s cycle is certainly highly recommendable if one is looking for a complete set of the nine symphonies. 
While I wouldn't say he was a bad Brahms conductor by any means (his fourth with the Philharmonia is a favorite of mine), various tapes I've heard lead me to believe he was much better in the concert hall than in the studio when it came to the Brahms symphonies. 
I also like his Wagner orchestral highlights and Sibelius 2nd, both with the BPO on EMI.
He recorded so much. There are individual recordings by him of music by a number of composers that I could list, but I'll stick with that.


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## Heliogabo

I used to dislike Karajan's interpretations on barroque music. But now I enjoy it a lot. There's a sumptuosity there that is unique. I think in the Brandenburg concertos with the BPO. I'm looking forward his Handel's concerti grossi op. 6. But is expensive and difficult to find.


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## DavidA

Interesting when Karajan's 60s Brandenburgs were played blind to a team of critics they rated them highly on;y to be astonished at the conductor!


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## starthrower

I only have two recordings. I like his Carmen w/ Leotyne Price. I don't care for his mushy Schoenberg.


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## Triplets

GKC said:


> And the Fifth.
> 
> What do you guys think of his '88 and '89 DG Bruckner 8th and 7th?
> 
> Really?


Love those late Bruckner recordings with the VPO


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## Triplets

Karajan's house in Salzburg is beautiful...


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## Triplets

I think that von K was truly superb in Sibelius. A pity he didn't record all the Symphonies.


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## Heliogabo

Triplets said:


> I think that von K was truly superb in Sibelius. A pity he didn't record all the Symphonies.


Sibelius himself said indeed that HVK was the right conductor for his symphonies.


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## DavidA

Triplets said:


> I think that von K was truly superb in Sibelius. A pity he didn't record all the Symphonies.


He recorded all but one I think.


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## hpowders

My favorite Karajan performances in addition to his multiple Beethoven symphony sets are :

Sibelius Seventh Symphony conducting the Philharmonia.

Mahler Ninth Symphony conducting the Berlin Philharmonic.

Schumann Second Symphony conducting the Berlin Philharmonic.


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## Xaltotun

There's only one conductor that comes to my dreams. (He likes to talk about himself, I've learned.)

Karajan is so incredibly good, matchless even, with such a vast array of composers, I'm left speechless. And I haven't heard the half of it.

Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Liszt, Wagner, Dvorak, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, R. Strauss. Oh, Prokofiev and Shostakovich too. And Sibelius. I haven't even heard his Bach, Schumann or Brahms.

It's ridiculous how good he is with Mahler. It feels like he shouldn't be, but he is. Not only the 9th but also the 5th! And his Dvorak Cello Concerto with Rostropovich... divine. An apocalyptic Tchaikovsky 5th. Chilling Sibelius 4th. A _Parsifal_ that takes no prisoners. A Shostakovich 10th that doesn't really sound like Shostakovich but something even better! Spellbinding _Die Schöpfung._ Jubilant _Coronation Mass._ Peerless Bruckner and Strauss. Etc, etc.

Or course, he is highly idiosyncratic. He brings to us the "Karajan version", not the "definitive version". Which is how it should be.

On a side note, I prefer his Berlin Bruckner to his Vienna ones. Those cross into something... too beautiful. With Berlin, the pillar-stones are rough.


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## Vaneyes

HvK favorite recs.

*Mahler* 9 w. BPO (1979/0), *Bruckner* 7 w. VPO, *Bruckner* 9, w. BPO (1966), * Ravel* Orchestral w. OdP, *Mussorgsky/Ravel *"Pictures' w. BPO, *Stravinsky* "Rite" w. BPO (1964),* Sibelius* Symphonies (all EMI) w. BPO, Philharmonia, *LvB* Symphonies 3, 4, 9 w. BPO ('62/3), *LvB *Symphonies 5, 6, 9 w. BPO(1976/7), *Brahms* Symphonies 1 - 4, w. BPO (1963/4),* Schumann* Symphony 1, w. BPO (1971), *R. Strauss* "D&T", "Till", "DJ", w. BPO (1972/3), *Rossini* Overtures w. Philharmonia (1958 - '60), * Verdi* Requiem, w. VPO.


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## phlrdfd

I received one of the Karajan boxed sets on Warner with re-mastered EMI recordings. I purchased it mainly for the Bruckner fourth and seventh, but it contains works by a few other composers as well. I didn't have the most recent EMI CD releases of the two Bruckner recordings to make a direct comparison (I had older releases of each), but I will say I'm very happy with the sound and glad I bought the set, even if the rest of what's in there doesn't interest me nearly as much as the Bruckner; especially considering I was able to get it for a good price on Amazon. 
I'm now thinking about ordering the Warner set of the EMI Sibelius BPO recordings.


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## StlukesguildOhio

MarschallinBlair- I can't even begin to list my favorite Karajan recordings-- as he did so many exquisite things and his recorded legacy is so vast.

A couple of the more prominent ones which come immediately to mind are:

- the late-fifties EMI/Philharmonia Rosenkavalier with the Duchess-of-Duchesses, and Marschallin-of-Marschallins, Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf-- which has orchestral contours, balances, and singing of such sublime beauty, that I'm simply at a loss for words to amplify and expound on all of its virtues.

- the '74 DG Strauss Zarathustra, Four Last Songs (with Gundula Janowitz), and Death and Transfiguration

- the late-fifties EMI/Philharmonia Falstaff with Tito Gobi, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, and Anna Moffo

- the 1960 EMI/Philharmonia Sibelius Fifth, with its caressing elegances and triumphant climaxes is perhaps my favorite Sibelius performance of all time outside of his late sixties DG/BPO Tapiola.

- the aforementioned DG/BPO sixties Tapiola ;D

- the digital EMI/BPO Sibelius Sixth

- the mid-seventies DG/BPO Bruckner Symphonies Four and Eight

- the DG/BPO Liszt tone poems Tasso and Les Preludes

- the '72 EMI/BPO Tchaikovsky's Fifth and Pathetique

- the '75 DG/BPO Beethoven's Ninth

- the '52 Meistersinger with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf

- the '51 Bayreuth Act III of Die Walkure

- the DG/BPO Ring from the late sixties

- the '52 Bayreuth Tristan with Modal and Vinay

- the late fifties EMI/Philharmonia Ariadne auf Naxos with Miss Elisabeth

- the mid-sixties DG/BPO Sibelius Fourth

- the mid-sixties DG/BPO La Mer

- the mid-seventies EMI/BPO Fidelio with Helga Dernesch-- which is exquisitely and poignantly beautiful and sublime beyond compare.

- the mid-seventies EMI/BPO Tristan with Vickers and Dernesch

- the EMI/BPO Don Carlos and Othello

- the digital DG/BPO Beethoven Sixth

- the seventies DG/BPO Tchaikovsky's Second

- the DG/BPO Parsifal

- the early fifties EMI Cosi with my cousin Elisabeth ;D

- the '82 DG live recording of Mahler's Ninth

- the mid-seventies DG Mahler's Fifth

- the. . . there's just too many to list really

Without cavil or qualification Karajan gets my vote for Greatest Conductor of the Twentieth Century. He's done more first-rate masterworks masterfully than anyone I can think of, and by an order of magnitude.

So Ms. Marschallin... you are actually starting to warm to Herbie?

ps. Your PM mailbox is full once again.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I don't care for his mushy Schoenberg.

Is there another kind? :devil:


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## Marschallin Blair

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I don't care for his mushy Schoenberg.
> 
> Is there another kind? :devil:


But Darling, when its so perfectly _puréed_ there's not mush-room for improvement.


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## SimonNZ

I know some people hate it, and sure its popular favorites and they milk all the sentimentality all the way through it... nevertheless I love this disc and wouldn't be without it:


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## Marschallin Blair

SimonNZ said:


> I know some people hate it, and sure its popular favorites and they milk all the sentimentality all the way through it... nevertheless I love this disc and wouldn't be without it:


_Never_ apologize for having beautiful taste. _;D _


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## amfortas

Already mentioned above, but I too want to acknowledge Karajan's live 1951 _Meistersinger_ and 1952 _Tristan_--great performances, and significant moments in the rebirth of the Bayreuth Festival.


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## bigshot

Has someone saved Karajan's number two? Did they save Bernstein's number one? how many gallons?


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## bigshot

SimonNZ said:


> I know some people hate it, and sure its popular favorites and they milk all the sentimentality all the way through it... nevertheless I love this disc and wouldn't be without it:


Beautiful is beautiful.


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## DavidA

Just got hold of Karajan's 1960 performance of Don Giovanni which is so different from his later recording for DG. Karajan's conducting is fast and razor sharp here, almost as if he's trying to efface memories of the grand accounts led by Furtwangler. The 1960 cast was legendary even at the time and seems all but immortal now:
DON GIOVANNI Eberhard Waechter
LEPORELLO Walter Berry
DONNA ANNA Leontyne Price
Donna ELVIRA Elisabeth Schwarzkopf
ZERLINA Graziella Sciutti
MASETTO Rolando PAnerai
Don OTTAVIO Cesare Valletti
Il COMMENDATORE Nicola Zaccaria
with the VPO / Karajan
It is stuff of this sort which gives nonsense to the idea that Karajan always conducted things the same way. In fact it is incredible that the same conductor could produce two such very different performances! 
the other thing is just how vital Karajan could be in the theatre - something which doesn't always come over in his studio recordings. As Richard Osbourne says, it was his mood on the day that determined the performance!


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## AClockworkOrange

Karajan is a conductor I have taken a while to warm up to and still have mixed feelings regarding some of his recordings. The glossy, over-produced slick sound is not necessarily my taste at times. My deterrent momen came from his 1980's Beethoven cycle - very off-putting to put it mildly. I shunned Karajan for a long time after hearing this.

The turning point was his recording of *Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht* with the Berliner Philharmoniker. Not only did it introduce me to the wonderful piece, but it opened me to trying more Karajan recordings.

I also enjoy his recordings of *Honegger*, and his *Bruckner* is an interesting contrast to Celibidache and I too prefer the Berlin recordings to the Vienna recordings.

The *EMI/Philharmonia Beethoven cycle* hit me like a battering ram. It banished the horrible taste of the '80's cycle in the blink of an eye. I really must hear more of his Philharmonia recordings because under Karajan and later Klemperer, the Philharmonia really punched above it's weight. I'm sure it was Marschallin Blair who has championed his Philharmonia Sibelius so I may look there in due course.

I doubt he'll ever be my number one choice personally because in too many cases there are other recordings I tend to prefer. I do however enjoy his work now much more than I did in the past.


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## Bradius

I'm listening to HVK conducting Bruckner's 8th right now. Really awesome! I've heard other good 8th (Joachim, Wand...), but I really like HVK's power.


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## Guest

Heliogabo said:


> I used to dislike Karajan's interpretations on barroque music. But now I enjoy it a lot. There's a sumptuosity there that is unique. I think in the Brandenburg concertos with the BPO. I'm looking forward his Handel's concerti grossi op. 6. But is expensive and difficult to find.


I recently bought all three discs from an Amazon seller--they were $12-15 each. I agree, the sumptuousness is very appealing--I like string instruments with a little meat on their bones!

I love HvK's Bruckner and Mahler. In fact, aside from The Rite of Spring, which was too tame, I enjoy most of his recordings. I wonder how many people still hold his Nazi affiliation against him? He paid dues, and since membership was pretty much required for any sort of career advancement, I think he might be guilty of opportunism rather than any ideological support of Hitler. Similar charges are being made of Valery Gergiev, that he is one of Putin's puppets. Maybe, but it is probably wiser to be Putin's friend than his enemy!


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## Vaneyes

Kontrapunctus said:


> I recently bought all three discs from an Amazon seller--they were $12-15 each. I agree, the sumptuousness is very appealing--I like string instruments with a little meat on their bones!
> 
> I love HvK's Bruckner and Mahler. In fact, aside from *The Rite of Spring, which was too tame*, I enjoy most of his recordings. I wonder how many people still hold his Nazi affiliation against him? He paid dues, and since membership was pretty much required for any sort of career advancement, I think he might be guilty of opportunism rather than any ideological support of Hitler. Similar charges are being made of Valery Gergiev, that he is one of Putin's puppets. Maybe, but it is probably wiser to be Putin's friend than his enemy!


Everyone has "Rite" views, some of which have been propagandized through the decades. Don't know of which HvK "Rite" you refer to, 1964 or 1975. Igor didn't like the 1964, calling it a "pet savage", or words to that effect. Whew, fortunately, the composer wasn't around to hear the 1975.

Stravinsky was very specific in his dissing, going bar by bar, almost. I'm sure if he had had a bone to pick with Lenny, a similar onslaught could have occurred with the 1958 Sony rec. Couldn't have been because Igor and Lenny recorded for the same label.

I recall when Monteux and Markevitch were (I can't believe I'm saying it) the bees knees. I bought, I listened. And I couldn't understand what people were going on about. And that with great respect for Pierre instilling a musical riot in 1913 Paris. Wish we had that recording.

Anyway, what I really mean to say, is that I own 1969 Cleveland/Boulez, 1958 NYPO/LB, 1978 Philadelphia/Muti (Japan remastering), and the downtrodden 1964 BPO/HvK. The poor boy makes good company.


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## DavidA

Vaneyes said:


> Everyone has "Rite" views, some of which have been propagandized through the decades. Don't know of which HvK "Rite" you refer to, 1964 or 1975. Igor didn't like the 1964, calling it a "pet savage", or words to that effect. Whew, fortunately, the composer wasn't around to hear the 1975.
> 
> Stravinsky was very specific in his dissing, going bar by bar, almost. I'm sure if he had had a bone to pick with Lenny, a similar onslaught could have occurred with the 1958 Sony rec. Couldn't have been because Igor and Lenny recorded for the same label.
> 
> I recall when Monteux and Markevitch were (I can't believe I'm saying it) the bees knees. I bought, I listened. And I couldn't understand what people were going on about. And that with great respect for Pierre instilling a musical riot in 1913 Paris. Wish we had that recording.
> 
> Anyway, what I really mean to say, is that I own 1969 Cleveland/Boulez, 1958 NYPO/LB, 1978 Philadelphia/Muti (Japan remastering), and the downtrodden 1964 BPO/HvK. The poor boy makes good company.


It is a fact that Karajan took Stravinsky's criticism of his 1964 Rite very seriously and took account of them when re-recording in 1975. I have this recording and it is pretty amazing. It is, of course, one way of doing this music. The recording Monteaux made is actually pretty tame!


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## Johnnie Burgess

DavidA said:


> Herbert von Karajan - Austria (1908-1989)
> 
> View attachment 61286
> 
> 
> A controversial figure all his life, not least for his membership of the Nazi Party in the 1930s, Karajan nevertheless rose to be the most prominent conductor in the world. In the process he left a series of breathtaking recordings, some of which have never been bettered.
> 
> Just a few in my collection:
> 
> View attachment 61287
> 
> 
> View attachment 61288
> 
> 
> View attachment 61289
> 
> 
> View attachment 61290
> 
> 
> What are your favourites?


His first Beethoven cycle 1962.


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## crispi

Karajan’s number of recordings I consider to be among the greatest ever vastly surpasses those of Carlos Kleiber’s. Just to put things into perspective. It’s okay to record a dud once in a while if your overall output is so phenomenal.

And, by the way: I love his Rite account from the ‘70s. It manages to bring out the pastoral elements in the music more than any other.


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## mbhaub

HvK was never on my turntable much for no particular reason. If I had to avoid every musician who did something I didn't approve of there wouldn't be many records in my library. Then a few years ago I bought a used copy of Osborne's biography and got really interested in the man. Egotist, narcissist...absolutely! But he obviously had something going for himself. So I picked up the 1960's Beethoven, the Bruckner symphonies, the Tchaikovsky. Some Richard Strauss, Puccini, the Wagner Ring, Salome...and a whole lot more. I already had the Mahler 9th, Hansel and Gretel, and Rite of Spring. He was a fine conductor - the quality of the playing, the balance, and even sensitivity is amazing. His Scheherazade is now one of my favorites. I was extremely lucky that I got to hear him live once - with the Vienna Philharmonic. But I envy a friend who grew up in Berlin in the 60's and heard him all the time.


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## Merl

There are standout Karajan performances for me but he did some turkies too. I was raised on his 60s Beethoven cycle with the BPO and it's still a classic. Never liked his Schubert that much but love his Brahms recordings (60s, 70s and 80s). Love his first 3 Tchaikovsky symphonies but not 4-6. I think he did a very good 70s Planets and, although they are contentious, I still love his Mahler 5&6. His Bruckner I rate highly too. Whatever you think of the Karajan 'sound' he was unique in his approach. I didn't play his recordings for a few years but revisiting them you can really appreciate what he did. I doubt there will be another like him but that's fine. I have fond memories of many of his recordings.


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## Granate

My entire listening experience sometimes is about finding out those composers I don't like to be conducted by Karajan, or even hate. His recordings are so good that I don't want to buy any DG box. Maybe I would spend less money if I got the completedeluxe 800€ box with all the CDs. I own all his orchestral recordings on Warner though.

I would never want to listen ever again to a Mahler recording by him. None of them. And then comes Beethoven. For my symphony challenges, I've found much better recordings than his first stereo cycle. I don't like his cavernous _Fidelio_ either. Finally, I don't like either of his _Otellos._

Favourites I have confirmed? _Tristan und Isolde, Lohengrin_ and the studio Ring by Wagner; Bruckner, Richard Strauss (+ _Salome_), Sibelius and a soft spot for his Bach Matthäus-Passion.


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