# Otto Klemperer On Beethoven, Mahler and Bruckner



## AClockworkOrange

Recently, I have picked up three of the recently released EMI box sets of Otto Klemperer. These were:
- Brahms - Bought mainly for the ...Requiem as it was cheaper than getting it separately (truly strange pricing) but as it turns out, I adore these interpretations and the sound is excellent. This hooked me.
- The Mozart Operas (Figaro, Giovanni, Tutti and Zaubeflote) - I cannot comment too far as yet but so far I am enjoying his Zaubeflote. These still need many listens but I'm impressed again.
- Wagner/Strauss - Arrived recently and so far I am gripped. Where the Mozart set introduced me to Lucia Popp, this has introduced me to Christa Ludwig. 

So, on top of Beethoven's Piano Concertos with Daniel Barenboim and Missa Solemnis, Klemperer has got me hooked. Not quite so much as Furtwangler, but close.

Now I have heard very mixed views on his interpretations of Beethoven (mainly tempo related)' Bruckner and Mahler. I am curious enough to look at his box sets of these composers even though I have multiple versions (full sets or loose symphonies) by these composers. Is he worth considering? 

If it helps, my favourite interpreters of the composers symphonies include:
- Beethoven - Furtwangler, Tennstedt, Kempe and Harnoncourt 
- Mahler - Tennstedt, Bernstein and Abbado
- Bruckner - Wand, Furtwangler and Barenboim 

In a nutshell, I don't want to add any more interpretations at present unless they standout. I have heard particularly mixed views on Klemperer's Bruckner. The Mahler and Beethoven are heavily present in my sets so on the one hand I am hesitant to add more but at the same time very interested in them. Indecision strikes again...:lol:

Any feedback would be much appreciated. :tiphat:


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## Manxfeeder

I've had the same dilemma, so I'm looking forward to some comments.

Spotify has his Bruckner cycle, and I've been through all of it except the 8th. I think the 4th and 6th symphonies are outstanding. You'll definitely hear things you haven't heard before with regard to rhythmic layering inherent in the music. No. 5 is very good, and 9 is pretty good with a few areas of ensemble muddiness. 7 is well-done but doesn't sound distinctive, to me, from other recordings. On the down side, his recording makes certain instruments stick out, particularly the oboe. 

That's just one person's observation. I'd consider getting the set for 4, 6, and 5. For the price, the other symphonies are, relatively, freebies.


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## AClockworkOrange

Thanks for that. 

I've never tried Spotify, though I have heard of it. I may have to remedy that.

You are certainly right on the price. I think I will give this set a chance, especially given it's price at present.


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## Vaneyes

Re LvB, once upon a time I liked his Eroica (EMI stereo). Eventually, I preferred others with faster tempi. 

Re Mahler, his EMI (studio) Symphony 2 is a true classic, and should be in every Mahler-lover's collection. His other Mahler pales, even the EMI live 2.

Re Bruckner, his number of successes is greater. Listen to anything and everything on EMI. I'm especially fond of 4 & 7. I'll agree with Manx about 5, but it impressed more until I found Horenstein's. Klemps 6 brass gives me a headache. :tiphat:


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## Llyranor

I only have Mahler's 2nd symphony and Das Lied Von Der Erde for Klemperer. While I compare to other recording, I will say that they are absolutely magnificant performances - ESPECIALLY the 2nd.


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## StlukesguildOhio

For Beethoven I would certainly consider the Karajan 1963. Toscanini is a historic classic... although I've never gotten into his interpretations of Beethoven much. Gardiner's HIP versions are incredibly muscular... and you should have Carlos Kleiber's iconic 5th & 7th and Ferenc Fricsay's 9th. Other solid choices include Krips and Kluytens.

Barrenboim's Beethoven piano concertos are too middle-of-the-road for me. There are far better choices IMO, including:

Szell & Fleisher
Kempff/Leitner & Kempff/van Kempen
Ashkenazy & Solti
Brendel & Haitink
Michelangeli & Giulini (1 & 3)
Szell & Gilels (1-4)
Gilels & Leopold Ludwig (4 & 5)
Perahia

For Bruckner I also enjoy Wand and Klemperer, but I would again consider Karajan and certainly Jochum. Celibidache might be an interesting alternative... although many find him an acquired taste. 

With Mahler, I have never found a satisfactory recording of the entire cycle. Individual recordings that I consider essential include:

Symphony 1- Solti and Walter... and Leinsdorf 1 & 3
Symphony 2- Mehta, Klemperer, Walter, and Simon Rattle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
Symphony 3- Bernstein, Leinsdorf, and Boulez
Symphony 4- Bernstein, Reiner, Walter & Abbado
Symphony 5- Barbirolli, Walter, Abbado with Chicago, and Shipway
Symphony 6- Karajan with Ludwig
Symphony 7- Abbado, Tennstedt
Symphony 8- Solti, Bernstein
Symphony 9- Barbirolli, Walter (live) with Vienna Phil. (essential historic), Klemperer, Bernstein and Berlin, Karajan


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## AClockworkOrange

StlukesguildOhio said:


> For Beethoven I would certainly consider the Karajan 1963. Toscanini is a historic classic... although I've never gotten into his interpretations of Beethoven much. Gardiner's HIP versions are incredibly muscular... and you should have Carlos Kleiber's iconic 5th & 7th and Ferenc Fricsay's 9th. Other solid choices include Krips and Kluytens.
> 
> Barrenboim's Beethoven piano concertos are too middle-of-the-road for me. There are far better choices IMO, including:
> 
> Szell & Fleisher
> Kempff/Leitner & Kempff/van Kempen
> Ashkenazy & Solti
> Brendel & Haitink
> Michelangeli & Giulini (1 & 3)
> Szell & Gilels (1-4)
> Gilels & Leopold Ludwig (4 & 5)
> Perahia
> 
> For Bruckner I also enjoy Wand and Klemperer, but I would again consider Karajan and certainly Jochum. Celibidache might be an interesting alternative... although many find him an acquired taste.
> 
> With Mahler, I have never found a satisfactory recording of the entire cycle. Individual recordings that I consider essential include:
> 
> Symphony 1- Solti and Walter... and Leinsdorf 1 & 3
> Symphony 2- Mehta, Klemperer, Walter, and Simon Rattle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
> Symphony 3- Bernstein, Leinsdorf, and Boulez
> Symphony 4- Bernstein, Reiner, Walter & Abbado
> Symphony 5- Barbirolli, Walter, Abbado with Chicago, and Shipway
> Symphony 6- Karajan with Ludwig
> Symphony 7- Abbado, Tennstedt
> Symphony 8- Solti, Bernstein
> Symphony 9- Barbirolli, Walter (live) with Vienna Phil. (essential historic), Klemperer, Bernstein and Berlin, Karajan


Thank you for the detailed response. To be honest, at present I was thinking more about Klemperer's take on the pieces. However, you have definitely given me something to think about.

On the Beethoven symphony front, I have Kleiber's 5th and 7th symphonies. I also like Bohm's 6th (VPO if memory serves).

There are some options on the piano concertos I hadn't considered, thank you for the suggestion. I must admit, I have also been looking at Uchida's set with Sanderling.

Bruckner is where I had an unpleasant introduction to Karajan, his 8th from the 80's. Granted I have only listened to it twice, but it has put a mental block over the conductor. I may a little biased as a Furtwangler fan (as silly as that sounds I suppose). I don't know, I may have to give the conductor another chance. I understand there are boxed sets from different decades - is there a particular decade you'd suggest to try and overcome my mental block? I suppose I should add that I listened to his Bruckner 8th immediately after Wand's with the BPO which may have skewed my view.

I have hetd of Celibidache by name but I know Little about him. I have always been given the impression that he is slower tempo conductor, quite unusual in interpretation at times, but I have never heard him so for all I know that may be wrong.

I have a lot of Mahler - Tennstedt/LPO, Bernstein/NYP, Abbado/BPO/CSO (loose symphonies) and the 8th by Solti/CSO. I may have to concede and give HVK a chance on Mahler's 6th as I am a fan of Christa Ludwig. That is certainly a great list of individual recordings.


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## AClockworkOrange

Vaneyes said:


> Re LvB, once upon a time I liked his Eroica (EMI stereo). Eventually, I preferred others with faster tempi.
> 
> Re Mahler, his EMI (studio) Symphony 2 is a true classic, and should be in every Mahler-lover's collection. His other Mahler pales, even the EMI live 2.
> 
> Re Bruckner, his number of successes is greater. Listen to anything and everything on EMI. I'm especially fond of 4 & 7. I'll agree with Manx about 5, but it impressed more until I found Horenstein's. Klemps 6 brass gives me a headache. :tiphat:


Thank you for the feedback.


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## realdealblues

AClockworkOrange said:


> Now I have heard very mixed views on his interpretations of Beethoven (mainly tempo related)' Bruckner and Mahler. I am curious enough to look at his box sets of these composers even though I have multiple versions (full sets or loose symphonies) by these composers. Is he worth considering?
> 
> If it helps, my favourite interpreters of the composers symphonies include:
> - Beethoven - Furtwangler, Tennstedt, Kempe and Harnoncourt
> - Mahler - Tennstedt, Bernstein and Abbado
> - Bruckner - Wand, Furtwangler and Barenboim
> 
> In a nutshell, I don't want to add any more interpretations at present unless they standout. I have heard particularly mixed views on Klemperer's Bruckner. The Mahler and Beethoven are heavily present in my sets so on the one hand I am hesitant to add more but at the same time very interested in them. Indecision strikes again...:lol:
> 
> Any feedback would be much appreciated. :tiphat:


I have everything you've mentioned as I love Klemperer and have pretty much everything that has been available of his.

His Brahms as you've mentioned is some of the best ever put on record.

His Beethoven is worth your time. It is slower than what many are used to which can make the works darker and moodier to me. You've mentioned Furtwangler and Kempe who are 2 of my favorites for Beethoven. Klemperer is a completely different take and well worth hearing. I like contrast so I enjoy hearing one end of the spectrum as well as the other.

His Mahler recordings are required listening in my opinion. Bernstein's Mahler has always been my Mahler, but to hear another completely different view from someone who actually knew Mahler, Klemperer is required. As is Bruno Walter for that matter.

Klemperer's Bruckner doesn't stand out as much as others to me. You could probably live without that one. Wand and Jochum still rule supreme for me.


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## AClockworkOrange

realdealblues said:


> I have everything you've mentioned as I love Klemperer and have pretty much everything that has been available of his.
> 
> His Brahms as you've mentioned is some of the best ever put on record.
> 
> His Beethoven is worth your time. It is slower than what many are used to which can make the works darker and moodier to me. You've mentioned Furtwangler and Kempe who are 2 of my favorites for Beethoven. Klemperer is a completely different take and well worth hearing. I like contrast so I enjoy hearing one end of the spectrum as well as the other.
> 
> His Mahler recordings are required listening in my opinion. Bernstein's Mahler has always been my Mahler, but to hear another completely different view from someone who actually knew Mahler, Klemperer is required. As is Bruno Walter for that matter.
> 
> Klemperer's Bruckner doesn't stand out as much as others to me. You could probably live without that one. Wand and Jochum still rule supreme for me.


Cheers.

After much pondering on feedback from this thread,I have picked up the Beethoven set, the Bruckner set (which has to be returned due to the Cd with the 9th Symphony being missing through manufacturer error ) and pre-ordered the Mahler.

I also picked up the Mozart Symphonies & Serenades set as the only Mozart Symphonies I have are by Beecham (LPO) and Bohm.

So far I have listened to some of the Beethoven - Symphonies 5 and 8. I cannot comment too deeply on interpretation (need much more time before I would dare to try) but I can say I found it enjoyable and an interesting alternative to Furtwangler. The recording quality is fantastic too. Like the other sets I have listened too from the EMI/Klemperer series, the stereo recordings have aged remarkably well - considering they are from the Mid-to-late 50's in some cases, it never ceases to impress me that they still hold their own today.

Realdealblues, it is interesting that you mention Kempe. Whilst I was waiting for them to arrive, I received an email from Amazon showing Kempe's Beethoven available on budget rerelease. The four Beethoven Symphonies I have from his Icons series boxed set (1, 3,5 and 6) are part of this line so I could complete Kempe's cycle. Amazon have finally hit me with an advert that works . I wouldn't normally bother, just delete the email but I do really like the four I already have so I may order them in the next month. At a shade over £19 it isn't too expensive.


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## Guest

Yes to all things Klemperer. His recording of Mozart's Magic Flute is incredible. I have numerous recordings by him, several of which are my favorite for that particular work.

Beethoven - Missa Solemnis*, Fidelio*, Symphonies 3, 5, 6, and 7
Mozart - Magic Flute*
Bruckner - Symphony No. 6*
Brahms - German Requiem*, Symphonies
Mahler - Symphony 2******* (favorite recording of my favorite symphony), Das Lied von der Erde
Bach - St. Matthew Passion - not my favorite, but definitely not to be missed (some will say it is way too slow)


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## techniquest

Such is the subjectivity of music listening experience that one persons' fantastic recording is another one's 'ho-hum'. As you look into Klemperer and Mahler in particular you may read disparaging reviews of his interpretation of the 7th Symphony. Klemperer's take is completely different from any other recording I have heard in that it is far _far_ slower. However, it gives the symphony a whole different dimension and, imho, is absolutely worth seeking out.
Also, his recording of Mahler's 9th with the New Philharmonia on EMI is superb - especially in the first movement.


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