# Profound Thought of the Day



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

John Cage's 4'33" represents the idea that anything can be music.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Medtner can be used in soft core asian porn. Yes, I actually happened upon Medtner's 2nd piano concerto as a sound track to a bunch of close ups of an asian girl in a really skimpy bikini. I was searching for the Medtner mind you!

The link is not appropriate for TC, but if you PM me, I can prove it to you!


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Couchie said:


> John Cage's 4'33" represents the idea that anything can be music.


John Cage's 4'33" demonstrates the fact that not everything can be music.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Polednice said:


> John Cage's 4'33" demonstrates the fact that not everything can be music.


I would say he demonstrates the fact that music can't _not_ be everything.

Your move.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Couchie said:


> I would say he demonstrates the fact that music can't _not_ be everything.
> 
> Your move.


I would therefore say that he _proves_ that composers know no more about what music is than the rest of us!


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

Maybe anything can be art so long as the artists says so. Thats the artiste's freedom. Equally people who consume the particaular art can also judge whether or not it is art.


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Couchie said:


> John Cage's 4'33" represents the idea that anything can be music.


I would say that it demonstrates that John Cage mistakenly _thought_ that anything could be music.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

This thread actually started because I was going to try for a Cage-bash by means of a classic Žižek reversal, aka identify an common-sense or widely believed statement and then argue that its inverse is actually true. Unfortunately this never quite worked out and I gave up and just posted the statement. When I read it back to myself it was somehow funnier than the original post could have ever been, and I literally laughed for about 3 minutes straight until I crying and had physical pain in my chest. Nobody else found this funny? Ah well, at least I entertain myself.  It could have been the 4 cups of coffee I had this morning...


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Change of topic, anyone? There's a saying that a person shouldn't try to be something their not. My profound thought for the day: A person _should_ try to be something their not, because that's the only way to improve and learn about oneself. How do you know what you are if you don't know what you're not? And how can you know you're not something until you try to be it? It's like the whole "you can't have light without dark" thing.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

OK. I will now try to be an earthworm. ... hmm. Not bad.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Kopachris said:


> Change of topic, anyone? There's a saying that a person shouldn't try to be something their not. My profound thought for the day: A person _should_ try to be something their not


I disagree, then you get "composers" like John Cage...


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Yeah,...if 'anything can be music' then I reckon this is art:










Only,...truth be told,...neither is much more than sheer ****.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

:lol: So far, we have an eclectic range of things: John Cage himself, _4'33"_, Asian porn, earthworm etc. I mean, we don't often see such an eclectic range associated with other great music, do we?


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Profound thought of the day: Alcohol and molasses, are by-products of sugar. Want to make good food? Screw that bag of refined sugar! Make a meat marinade based off of whiskey and molasses (which I did in my sink once, to "get a turkey drunk"), and the by-products will have won the day.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

kv466 said:


> Yeah,...if 'anything can be music' then I reckon this is art:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's quite the pleasing curve though. Perhaps it is art.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Rasa said:


> It's quite the pleasing curve though. Perhaps it is art.


What is it?


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

How fragile is the flame that burns within us all,...to light each passing day?


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## jdavid (Oct 4, 2011)

I'll go to straight to hell for this post, but Iggy Pop said, after hearing The Velvet Underground for the first time, "I realized you don't have to be a good musician to make good music!" (sorry, seemed apropos of 'anything can be music').


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Cage's, I applaud with one hand.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

jdavid said:


> I'll go to straight to hell for this post, but Iggy Pop said, after hearing The Velvet Underground for the first time, "I realized you don't have to be a good musician to make good music!" (sorry, seemed apropos of 'anything can be music').


I think Iggy nailed it right on the head...you absolutely need not be a great musician in order to create a great piece of music; just gotta be a great composer and even then, there's always the one hit wonders who make music that will live throughout eternity,...and that's all they'll ever write so well.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Ravellian said:


> I would say that it demonstrates that John Cage mistakenly _thought_ that anything could be music.


I don't see it that way. The point of the piece, or non-piece for me is to get people to listen to the world of sound in their environments. Of course many of these sounds and textures do not constitute music in their raw state, but can be incorporated into musical works. Many musicians pick up on the rhythmic aspects of their sonic environments which do constitute a vital ingredient in music.

I have this album titled Laps In Seven by mandolinist Sam Bush. I didn't know what the titled referred to until I listened to the title track. Sam was listening to the sounds in the environment of his own home and recognized that his dog was lapping up water in seven. He recorded his dog drinking water and then used this rhythm to construct the piece of music.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

Here's my profound thought: Is 4'33 this forum's version of Godwin's Law? It seems to pop up in lots of various and diverse unrelated topics.


starthrower said:


> I don't see it that way. The point of the piece, or non-piece for me is to get people to listen to the world of sound in their environments.


You mean people coughing? Because that's all I always hear aside from the orchestra in the concert hall. They seem to have a tendency to nudge each other into it as well, so that when one person does it, others join in. There's a nice harmonic element to it. Sometimes one will get a coughing bout, another will join in, and the first one will reply, following by another rebuke by the latter. Sometimes they'll overlap, going for a bit of counterpoint. Occasionally, you'll get one who'll be really extravagant about it - kind of like the brass equivalent, maybe?


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Llyranor said:


> Here's my profound thought: Is 4'33 this forum's version of Godwin's Law? It seems to pop up in lots of various and diverse unrelated topics.


Yes, I think it is. :lol: "As the length of a Talk Classical discussion approaches infinity, the probability of a comparison or thread-derail being made to John Cage or 4'33" approaches 1." What should we call it, though?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Llyranor said:


> You mean people coughing? Because that's all I always hear aside from the orchestra in the concert hall. They seem to have a tendency to nudge each other into it as well, so that when one person does it, others join in. There's a nice harmonic element to it. Sometimes one will get a coughing bout, another will join in, and the first one will reply, following by another rebuke by the latter. Sometimes they'll overlap, going for a bit of counterpoint. Occasionally, you'll get one who'll be really extravagant about it - kind of like the brass equivalent, maybe?


No, I'm not interested in focusing on coughing, and I don't think that's what Cage had in mind either. The discipline of listening to your surroundings can be exercised beyond the concert hall. That said, if one must endure coughing by the audience, it's better do put up with it during 4'33 than when trying to listen to actual music. And to take it one step further, we can almost wax nostalgic for a cough or two or three in an age when idiots leave their cell phones on in the concert hall.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I think Cage's desire for people to listen to their surroundings is interesting and valuable, but I think it's peculiar (and more stunt-like and attention seeking) to attempt for people to understand that in the context of performing a piece of music.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Vaneyes said:


> Cage's, I applaud with one hand.


That's an easy question. The answer is that you slap your neck with one hand.


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