# Wanted: Recommendations for an Opera Newbie



## JuanCarlo (Feb 3, 2012)

Hello everyone.

I've been meaning to get more into Opera, but knowing next to nothing about it, it's all a bit daunting and hard to find stuff that I might like (not to mention the fact that it usually takes several listens before I can truly decide if I like something or not, so it seems a bigger time investment than other forms of music). So I was hoping people on here might recommend some stuff to try out based on my tastes.

I first became interested in Opera mainly by way of two composers: Michael Nyman (because I loved his film scores) and Kurt Weill (because I love his musicals). I read that Nyman was influenced by Purcell, so I checked most of his stuff out and really liked it. Likewise, I also got more into Weill's more Operatic stuff beyond just "Threepenny Opera," as well as some other operas that I mostly just discovered randomly and haphazardly.

So, anyways, I thought I'd just list the stuff I'm familiar with and like in the hope that people here might be able to suggest some similar stuff that I could get into. I'd really appreciate it.

*Nyman*: I like all his stuff in varying degrees (including "Dada" and "Love Counts"), but I really loved "Facing Goya." I'm not even sure how respected he is in the world of Opera or anything, so maybe it's uncool to admit my love for him, but so be it. I think he's awesome. 

*Weill*: I haven't heard all of his stuff, but I love both "Threepenny Opera" (which I guess is more of a musical than an Opera) and "The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagony" (which is probably my favorite of his). I'd really like to hear "Die Dreigroschenoper" but haven't been able to get my hands on a copy yet.

*Wagner*: I absolutely LOVE "Tristan und Isolde." I haven't listened to anything else of Wagner's much. I guess what kind of puts me off is just how much pieces of his music have permeated pop culture in such a way that it kind of ruins it for me. When ever I hear "Ride of the Valkeryes," for example, "Kill the Wabbit, Kill the Wabbit" from those old bugs bunny cartoons pops into my head and it just kind of cheapens the emotional impact, I guess. Still, I recognize that he's probably more than just those brief popular segments, and I really do love "Tristan und Isolde," so I'm open to suggests about where else to go with his stuff.

*Purcell*: I really love both "King Arthur" and "Dido and Aeneas"--especially "Dido and Aeneas." Those are the only two of his that I've heard, though (and, yeah, hearing him kind of put Nyman into perspective as some of their stuff is very, very, similar--especially Nyman's scores for the Greenaway movies from the 1980s).

*Zimmerman*: I randomly stumbled on to "Die Soldaten" after reading about it a while back. I listened and it kind of blew my mind in a "WTF is this? I have never heard anything like this before" type way. I can't say I enjoyed it upon first listen per-se, but it was so unlike anything I'd heard before in a very unsettling way that it intrigued me enough to seek out one of the video productions of it just to see what on earth it was about. Upon seeing it, I thought the music was much more effective in the context of the visuals. So I stuck with it and it ended up growing on me. I still can't say that I "enjoy" it, per se (in the same way that you can, say, enjoy "Tristan und Isolde"), but there's just something fascinating to me about how it can kind of create a very powerful, anxiety tinged, emotional state in me that keeps me coming back (a bit like a child getting addicted to sticking his finger in a light socket, I guess. :lol: ).

*Berg*: I've always been a huge fan of Tom Wait's musical version of "Wozzek" and Werner Herzog's movie version of it, so I thought I might as well give the Opera a try. I just got my hands on "Wozzek" and "Lulu" the other day, so I haven't had alot of time for them to sink in fully, but I like what I've heard so far.

So, anyway, this is literally the sum total of my experience with Opera. Apart from the basic pieces that have so permeated pop culture that basically everyone has heard them at one point or another, I really haven't heard any other Operas than these all the way through.

I really have no idea how to even navigate the world of Opera in order to discover knew things that I might like, so I'm hoping some people here might be able to give me some suggestions of similar composers/Operas to the ones above that you think I might like.

Thanks!


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

I would definitively suggest this:


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

About Weill; The Threepenny Opera and Die Dreigroschenoper are the same thing. Drei = Three / Groschen = Coin or Penny / Oper = Opera. Anyway; I'm glad you liked it, I think it's a great piece.

I think the easiest opera for beginners is verismo. Verdi's "La Traviata," Leoncavallo's "Pagliacci," Puccini's "Tosca" and Bizet's "Carmen" are great examples of the style; catchy melodies, big dramatic gestures, and generally at a comfortable length.

Lastly; my favourite opera is Messiaen's "St. François d'Assise," highly recommended on CD conducted by Kent Nagano and the DVD version conducted by Ingo Metzmacher.


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## AndyS (Dec 2, 2011)

To add to what Crudblud said, I found Mozarts operas very accessible for beginners, particularly Die Zauberflote and Le Nozze di Figaro


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Since you know you like at least one of Wagner's operas, you may want to give some of the others a try. _The Flying Dutchman _(or its German title, _Der fliegende Holländer_) may be one to start with. You might also like _Tannhäuser_ -- although some of the orchestral themes are included in the Bugs Bunny opera parody you mentioned ("What's Opera, Doc?"). Another possibility is Wagner's _Lohengrin_. Before making any actual purchases, you could listen to clips from these operas on YouTube and see if you like what you hear.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Looking at what JuanCarlo has listed as his existing likes, it seems clear that he is not a beginner; I'll make some recommendations based on his specific list.

If you like Nyman's minimalist aspects, you might enjoy operas by John Adams (Nixon in China) or Philip Glass (eg Akhnaten). But they are not based on Purcell, so if that is more important, then perhaps not (I'm really only familiar with his _Draughtsman's contract_ music myself)

You still have one great Purcell opera to explore, the Fairy Queen; if you want a DVD version I recommend the Glyndebourne one which is one of my favourite DVDs of all. Otherwise you could expand towards Handel - the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare DVD is another all time favourite. Other great Handel operas include Rodelinda, Hercules, Ariodante, Tamerlano and Serse, but they are all pretty good. You might also like John Blow's Venus and Adonis which was a model for Purcell's Dido.

From Tristan go to the Ring - but make sure you either watch a good version, or read the libretto while you are listening. I'd go for watching as you might also get all those Bugs Bunny images out of your head. The Barenboim version is great on DVD.

For a couple of contemporary operas that I like , I'd suggest Harrison Birtwistle's the Minotaur and Katia Sariaaho's L'amour de Loin, both available in good productions on DVD


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## SarahN (Feb 4, 2012)

I second: the Glydebourne Giulio Cesare, and Mozart, including Don Giovanni as well as The Magic Flute and Marriage of Figaro.

If you loved Purcell, and Wagner, try Gluck - Orfeo ed Euridice, or my favorite Iphigenie en Tauride. I saw the latter as one of my first operas in a very spare production starring Susan Graham and was totally blown away. Gluck's lyricism in his orchestration, from what I have heard, leads to Berlioz and Wagner, although he is very much the 18th century classical opera reformer (OK, I have a thing for Gluck).

I haven't heard any of what you have mentioned, so I'm not sure I can suggest any more that would lead from those.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

In terms of Wagner, I am not a fan, but a guy who I do like and influenced him heaps was *Carl Maria von Weber*. The "Wolf's Glen" scene in _Der Freischutz_ (_The Free Shooter_) has some of the mystical & kind of mythical aspects of Wagner. It's also unlikely to be associated with popular culture as much as Wagner's music, it's not nearly as popular in the wider world.

At a bit of a strech, one of my favourite operatic works is* Hector Berlioz's *_La Damnation de Faust_. It has some of the intense and dramatic "in your face" character of what you talk about regarding Berg and Zimmerman (& also some great "love songs"), but of course Berlioz was of the 19th century. Berlioz was another one who had pivotal influence on Wagner, so he might fit in your preferences listed in that way too. Berlioz really focuses here on the psychological aspects of the _Faust_ story, not on the love story aspects like Gounod later came to do in his version (which I like as well, but I don't know it as well as the Berlioz one)...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

*I love Michael Nyman!*  Listen to "Le Grand Macabre" by *Ligeti.*


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## JuanCarlo (Feb 3, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> About Weill; The Threepenny Opera and Die Dreigroschenoper are the same thing. Drei = Three / Groschen = Coin or Penny / Oper = Opera. Anyway; I'm glad you liked it, I think it's a great piece.


LOL

I meant "Die Bürgschaft," but was cutting and pasting and not paying attention.

I actually have several versions of "Threepenny" in its original German too, so that's especially embarrassing.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

If you can digest _Tristan und Isolde_, you should be able to get a lot out of _Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg _and _Parsifal, _ which haven't been pop culturalized.


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## JuanCarlo (Feb 3, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions all!

I'm not a big fan of what little I've heard of Italian operas, but perhaps I'm not giving them a fair shake.

@mamascarlatti: I'm not sure how to phrase it, exactly, but I think I like the repetitive aspect of minimalism more than I like the actual minimalism. Some minimalist stuff really bores me, but I've always liked Nyman because at his best he's like an obsessive compulsive Purcell on speed. I've always thought he's a bit like a classical take on techno music in how he tends to build music through layers of repetition--which just appeals to me for some reason.

Your suggestions sound great,, though. I'll get "Fairy Queen," and look into Handel and John Blow. Also the Birtwhistle and the Sariahoo look interesting too.

@Sarah: Gluck sounds awesome if he really is a link between Purcell and Wagner. 

@everyone else: I'll give Ligeti, von Weber, and Berlioz a listen as well.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. You've given me enough leads to last me a while, I think.


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi JuanCarlo (what happened with the ending 's'?). We're scarce of Purcell fans here so you're really welcome. On Purcell's music, my recommendation is simple: get everything you can, opera or not._ The Fairy Queen _is my all-time favourite opera, I cannot praise enough its beauties.

Apart from Purcell and Händel, there are other first-rate baroque opera composers like Rameau (_Castor et Pollux_) and Lully (_Atys_). But perhaps my first recommendation should be Monteverdi's _L'Incoronazione di Poppea_, with glorious music and libretto.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Another fantastic opera: Bliss, by Brett Dean.

*Trailer*


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