# A Bach quote.



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

I thought how interesting this comment was given all the discussions on performance. Still I thought some "heart" or "soul" had to be present even playing a harpsichord/clavier.

I am sure his opinion would change if he heard the modern piano.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Bigbang said:


> There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
> -- Johann Sebastian Bach
> 
> I thought how interesting this comment was given all the discussions on performance. Still I thought some "heart" or "soul" had to be present even playing a harpsichord/clavier.
> ...


Or maybe not:

"Given half an hour of your time and your spirit and a quiet room, I could teach any of you how to play the piano - everything there is to know about playing the piano can be taught in half an hour, I'm convinced of it." ~ Glenn Gould


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bigbang said:


> There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
> -- Johann Sebastian Bach


Are you sure?

alcxhzakc bgzs,k zahsbcm,kszab


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

Bigbang said:


> There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
> -- Johann Sebastian Bach
> 
> I thought how interesting this comment was given all the discussions on performance. Still I thought some "heart" or "soul" had to be present even playing a harpsichord/clavier.
> ...


If he heard the modern piano he'd have to amend that to "the right keys at the right time with the right force."

I detect some humor in Bach's remark, since the right keys at the right time is not generally an easy task.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> alcxhzakc bgzs,k zahsbcm,kszab


On what do you base your claim that those are the right keys?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bach also said, when complimented on his music, that he was just a hard worker and that anyone who worked as hard could do as well.

Either he had no idea that he was a great musician, or he had no patience with idle compliments. Since he was also a guy who could throw his wig at a bassoonist, saying, "You should have been a cobbler!", I'm guessing the latter.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

After quoting the statement attributed to Bach by J. F. Köhler organist Kimberly Marshall in her essay _The Fundamentals of Organ Playing_ writes:

"J. S. Bach's modest response to compliments on his organ playing is perhaps the most authoritative and succinct account of that art. However, playing 'the right notes at the right time' on the organ is more complicated than it may at first appear. Although organists do not produce the tone of their instrument and are unable to create variations of dynamics and timbre through touch, crafting a musical line from the static quality of organ sound demands an extremely sensitive approach to articulation and to timing the notes that make a musical phrase. The art of playing the organ resides almost exclusively in articulation and timing; these nuances are what distinguishes the organist's technique of touch from that of typists and stenographers, who are also concerned with striking the right keys. For the latter, the way the keys are depressed and released matters little as long as the text is captured in print as quickly as possible. In order to make music on the organ, however, a mechanical approach to accuracy is insufficient; the organist must cultivate different ways of depressing and releasing keys to create the musical nuances possible in other instruments where the tone is produced by the player."


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Bach also said...that he was just a hard worker and that anyone who worked as hard could do as well.


I thought that was about all those kids.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

So here's a nice performance on an organ of cpt 9 - I wonder who's playing there.






And here's what happens if you just press the keys mechanically


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> And here's what happens if you just press the keys mechanically


Much prefer Gould's recording; but now we're going to get into the whole Gould debate, second only to politics.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> So here's a nice performance on an organ of cpt 9 - I wonder who's playing there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't hear anything mechanical about Gould's performance and find it more enjoyable than the upper video. The unknown organist looks bored, and his performance is a match. Just my opinion.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> I don't hear anything mechanical about Gould's performance and find it more enjoyable than the upper video. The unknown organist looks bored, and his performance is a match. Just my opinion.


Gould sound like a seal pressing car horns in a circus act. If you think the other organist looks bored, close your eyes.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Gould sound like a seal pressing car horns in a circus act. If you think the other organist looks bored, close your eyes.


Well then I'd take the seal over the first organist too-and one hell of a seal.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Gould sound like a seal pressing car horns in a circus act. If you think the other organist looks bored, close your eyes.


We are miles apart on this one, and closing my eyes won't change the fact that I find the performance boring. Gould's has abundant vitality and much more contrapuntal clarity.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I've started to appreciate Gould more in Bach than I used to. I listened to his '55 Goldberg Variations the other day and liked it a lot. That said I prefer the anonymous performer in the above clip, but I think it is largely to do with the fact I prefer the softer tone of the organ he is using to the one Gould is performing on.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2019)

I also prefer Gould. The unknown organist is competent, but not really distinctive. Gould, as usual, emphasizes contrapuntal clarity at the expense of all else, but the performance is not "mechanical." He is controlling his articulation very precisely to distinguish the voices to the maximum extent possible.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

A chacun ses mauvais goûts, (including me)


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Lest that poor organist stumble on this thread someday, just want to put in a good word for him, and it's this: "You're a fine organist and thanks for posting your performance on Youtube."

Rue the day some wags on a forum hoist me up for comparison with, arguably, the greatest pianist of the 20th century.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I just spoke to Gould on the phone and got him to listen to that YouTube, and he agrees with me that the anonymous performance is far superior to the one he recorded, which he now regrets doing. I told him that there were some people who preferred his, but he just sniggered and changed the subject.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think the Bach quotes discussed in this thread relate to the fact he was humble and a person who probably realized gifts come with responsibility. Gifts like his are a form of power that can corrupt a person if they start to believe they are better than others.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

tdc said:


> I think the Bach quotes discussed in this thread relate to the fact he was humble and a person who probably realized gifts come with responsibility. Gifts like his are a form of power that can corrupt a person if they start to believe they are better than others.


I think you're 100% right. According to CPE Bach, he and his brothers always liked to tell the story of Bach's organ competition with Marchand, and how Marchand fled town upon hearing Bach practice, but Bach never liked to tell the story out of the family. CPE credited it to his father's [Lutheran] humility.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
—Johann Sebastian Bach
—-
Only a genius could imagine that everyone had the same potential that he did and that such ability was completely natural, straightforward, and unremarkable — which of course it isn’t, or there would have been other Bachs on his consummate level of proficiency as a composer, and even his sons fell short who had every advantage from their father. Perhaps only somebody who sees himself as a servant of God rather than as a person of importance could make such an innocent, matter of fact statement.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I don't know what the OP is trying to say. I find Bach WTC the most emotional when played on the harpsichord, and the modern piano is certainly not the best instrument for playing Bach, in my view.

2:00






In certain respects, the modern piano is a deterioration from Bach's piano.
There was a time the piano actually had a variety of delicate sound quality over its ranges:

2:30






(This is just my opinion)-
Now it's a dull instrument with ugly timbral quality that prioritizes power and range over anything else.
It all happened because some 19th century composers started treating it like an orchestra when it's not an orchestra, with a kind of the-more-banging-the-better mentality.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Larkenfield said:


> There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
> -Johann Sebastian Bach
> --
> Only a genius could imagine that everyone had the same potential that he did and that such ability was completely natural, straightforward, and unremarkable - which of course it isn't, or there would have been other Bachs on his consummate level of proficiency as a composer, and even his sons fell short who had every advantage from their father. Perhaps only somebody who sees himself as a servant of God rather than as a person of importance could make such an innocent, matter of fact statement.


Oh come on, Larkenfield! Bach may have been humble in some ways, but he wasn't naive about music. I guarantee you that he knew absolutely how exceptional he was. Has anyone considered the possibility that he was being facetious, if indeed he wasn't gently mocking his questioner? How could any intelligent person make such a remark without a sly smile? St. Sebastian surely had a sense of humor. He was a Lutheran, not a Presbyterian. :devil:


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Gould sound like a seal pressing car horns in a circus act. If you think the other organist looks bored, close your eyes.


I agree with Don, that there is more vitality and clarity in Gould's performance. On the other hand his stiff tempo and almost manic uniform staccato articulation fast becomes tiring - as so often with Gould, and an exaggerated staccato articulation like this works even against the nature of the organ.

The anonymous organist is of course more HIP, but he plays the music more like an exercise than like a piece of music. I find him rather uninspiring - whether I close my eyes or not.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I just spoke to Gould on the phone and got him to listen to that YouTube, and he agrees with me that the anonymous performance is far superior to the one he recorded, which he now regrets doing. I told him that there were some people who preferred his, but he just sniggered and changed the subject.


If Gould regrets anything, it might be, that he didn't play the piece in an even more unlistenable way.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> St. Sebastian surely had a sense of humor.


One of my favorite stories about Bach's sense of humor concerns a beggar who apparently begged by whining. Story has it that whenever Bach passed by the beggar he would hold a coin above the beggar and lift it higher and higher as the beggar's whines rose and rose in pitch, all to achieve the highest note possible before giving the beggar the coin.


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

vtpoet said:


> One of my favorite stories about Bach's sense of humor concerns a beggar who would apparently begged by whining. Story has it that whenever Bach passed by the beggar he would hold a coin above the beggar and lift it higher and higher as the beggar's whines rose and rose in pitch, all to achieve the highest note possible before giving the beggar the coin.


wich proves that the falsettos (soundwise) are the best beggars.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

When the eminent biologist and author Lewis Thomas was asked what message he would choose to send from Earth into outer space on the Voyager spacecraft, he answered "I would send the complete works of J. S. Bach." After a pause he added, "But that would be bragging."


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

alan davis said:


> When the eminent biologist and author Lewis Thomas was asked what message he would choose to send from Earth into outer space on the Voyager spacecraft, he answered "I would send the complete works of J. S. Bach." After a pause he added, "But that would be bragging."


The physicist Carl Sagan also said something very similar when asked why the Voyager probe didn't have all Bach - "that would be boasting".


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Oh come on, Larkenfield! Bach may have been humble in some ways, but he wasn't naive about music. I guarantee you that he knew absolutely how exceptional he was. Has anyone considered the possibility that he was being facetious, if indeed he wasn't gently mocking his questioner? How could any intelligent person make such a remark without a sly smile? St. Sebastian surely had a sense of humor. He was a Lutheran, not a Presbyterian. :devil:


 Come on, Woodduck.  Bach may have been aware of his genius but he didn't take credit for it either, did he? He was a Lutheran-inspired, humble man and most everything he wrote was to the glory of God. That's who he gave credit to, not himself, for his ability - probably that it was God-given. But then, not everyone is religiously or spiritually inclined to understand his point of view regardless of whether it's a reflection of one's own beliefs... Bach's quote may have been intended to be humorous but it's also possible he may not have viewed his ability as remarkable, being quite possibly an individual without ego, or a subjugated ego, and there's nothing that I've read to suggest that he believed otherwise. Still, it's rather humorous to imagine Bach suggesting to someone that playing is as simple as hitting the right key at the right time, which is actually true if only everyone could do it. What was he supposed to say otherwise? "Forget it: don't even try"? Well, he didn't and it leaves possibilities open for people, especially if they have some measure of talent and feel divinely inspired. It does exist for some people but not the skeptics who are inclined to discount the miraculous... and I'd certainly consider Bach something of a miracle. His cantatas are fantastic.
--


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