# SS 04.07.20 - Rubinstein #2 "Ocean"



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:*

Anton Rubinstein (1829 - 1894)*

Symphony #2 in C major, Op. 42 "Ocean"

1. Allegro maestoso
2. Adagio non tanto
3. Allegro 
4. Adagio - Allegro con fuoco
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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm posting this one a bit early as I won't be around this weekend. Thanks to Mika for stepping in during my absence again last weekend.

This weekend we welcome Russian composer Anton Rubinstein with his Second Symphony. I think I've heard this once before but it's been a while so I'm looking forward to giving it another spin. I hope others can join in and give this one a listen. Also a Happy 4th of July to all my fellow US Talk Classical members, I hope you all have a safe weekend.

I'll be listening to this one:




Igor Golovchin/Russian State Symphony Orchestra


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

I'll be listening to the 7 movement monstrosity that Rubinstein completed. I once read that Beethoven's 5th, Raff's 3rd and Rubinstein's 2nd were the most popular symphonies programmed in the late 19th century.

This version has an 18 minute "storm" 2nd movement that seems to go nowhere!

The original 4 movement work was much better.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Why not the seven movement version? In any event, I'll pass on this one. Rubinstein's concertos I like. But those symphonies are pretty thin gruel.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Sorry I'll have to pass on this one. I'll listen to Ives' Holiday Symphony instead.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Very interesting! The only work by Rubinstein that I know is his Piano Concerto No. 4 in D Minor. Raymond Lewenthal recorded it in 1969 as part of his effort to revive some über-Romantic composers like Rubinstein and Alkan. This “Ocean” symphony promises to impart a Romantic mood... the vastness and indifference of Nature, that kind of thing I suppose. I’m going to wait for the right time this week to listen to it and be swept away on the ocean, like not while I’m grilling food out on the patio this Saturday, I might burn something. I will listen to Steven Gunzenhauser conducting the Slovak Philharmonic Orchestra in a 2001 recording for Naxos which my streaming service has in HD (regular CD quality).


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Alfacharger said:


> I'll be listening to the 7 movement monstrosity that Rubinstein completed. I once read that Beethoven's 5th, Raff's 3rd and Rubinstein's 2nd were the most popular symphonies programmed in the late 19th century.
> 
> This version has an 18 minute "storm" 2nd movement that seems to go nowhere!
> 
> The original 4 movement work was much better.


Hah! Great minds think alike. We even submitted at the same time: 13:40! Yes, that 2nd movement just has endless string arpeggios - goes nowhere like you say.


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

The 7 movement version may rate as the most overlong symphony. Mussorgsky once described Rubinstein's Ocean Symphony as ''a puddle''.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Alfacharger said:


> I'll be listening to the 7 movement monstrosity that Rubinstein completed. I once read that Beethoven's 5th, Raff's 3rd and Rubinstein's 2nd were the most popular symphonies programmed in the late 19th century.
> 
> This version has an 18 minute "storm" 2nd movement that seems to go nowhere!
> 
> The original 4 movement work was much better.


This one and spotify


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Alfacharger said:


> I'll be listening to the 7 movement monstrosity that Rubinstein completed. I once read that Beethoven's 5th, Raff's 3rd and Rubinstein's 2nd were the most popular symphonies programmed in the late 19th century.
> 
> This version has an 18 minute "storm" 2nd movement that seems to go nowhere!
> 
> The original 4 movement work was much better.


This version for me, just not sure I am looking forward to it


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Haydn man said:


> This version for me, just not sure I am looking forward to it


I'm definitely not looking forward to it because I'm giving this week a skip. I listened to a bit of the first movement and it seemed somewhat vacuous. Maybe if somebody gives it a glowing report I'll give in and listen...


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## cougarjuno (Jul 1, 2012)

I really enjoy Rubinstein's music, so I'm looking forward to hearing this again. I have both the four and seven movement versions but I'll go with the four-movement version with George Hanson conducting the Wuppertal Symphony Orchestra. Several years ago I heard this performed in concert with Botstein and the ASO in the seven-movement version and found it fascinating.


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

I will go with 4 movements version. Fuat Mansurov & USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Anton Rubinstein, Symphony No 2 in C major, Ocean (1851)
Russian State Symphony Orchestra
Igor Golovchin, conductor
I will try this one out.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I could have sworn that I posted in this thread last nite. Oh well, I listened to this one (below). Its a bit of a sprawling symphony that tends to wander off on a tangent but there are some nice ideas in there.









Ps. If anyone finds the location of last night's drunken post then let me know. It could be anywhere! I blame that bottle of Monkey Shoulder.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

A friend of mine introduce me to this symphony years ago. I was impressed at the time, but my view may have changed since then. I am looking forward to this one and give it the time it respects. 
Sunday, i will be doing a coastal walk. So i will take my Bluetooth headphones and my iphone. I will get atmospherics whilst listening to this beauty.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Listened to the 7 movement version, perhaps not the best idea as it really is too long
Yes there are some good ideas, it is not unpleasant and it is certainly evocative of the ocean, a large one at that.
Others have commented on the storm section and the tendency of the work to just wander along and I would agree with this.
Not one to return back to in a hurry perhaps


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Looks like this is a composer I can happily ignore then. I had a recording of his 3rd Symphony once and found it lacking in inspiration. And the reception of the longest symphony here tells me everything.


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

It seems to me that this symphony (represented the generation of Anton Rubinstein) demonstrates that Russian music in general was still a little behind the rest of "musical" Europe at this time. The best was yet to come, and at the turn of the century there was almost a hegemony of Russian music. Big potential and a huge progress in a few decades!


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I’ve now listened to the seven movement version three times, if you can believe it, but I did so with nowhere near full concentration. As I often do, I had my first listen while I was cooking, paying bills, tidying up, etc., just sort of to get my feet wet (!). Ordinarily, if I like the music in this context, I later sit down with it for a focused listening session. With this symphony, though, I knew that wouldn’t work after about ten minutes, so once again I let it be my environmental music as I went about my chores. It just works exceptionally well for me in this role, so much so that I feel grateful that it’s so long. I didn’t have to experience that sad feeling of anticipating the imminent end of pleasant listening. So I have a nice new soundtrack for my domestic life.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Listened to Gunzenhauser. But of a yawn, to be honest, got uninvolved after two very long and amorphous movements.

Sorry for being negative.....


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Poor Ruby - I can't recall a Satsym suggestion which has gone down so badly! I can't say that I'm a fan of what I've heard either - years ago his first symphony left me totally cold so I was somewhat deterred from tackling this one. Some say the piano concertos are better.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

DaddyGeorge said:


> It seems to me that this symphony (represented the generation of Anton Rubinstein) demonstrates that Russian music in general was still a little behind the rest of "musical" Europe at this time. The best was yet to come, and at the turn of the century there was almost a hegemony of Russian music. Big potential and a huge progress in a few decades!


Rubinstein was never considered a "Russian" composer - his style and training (and family background) were too German. He was one of those composers that the Balakirev circle was so opposed to. Rubinstein and his brother were more professional that The Might Five, but clearly less original and fascinating. Rubinstein was a big influence on Tchaikovsky, who also was not considered a Russian Nationalist; his music was often seen as being too influenced by the German school despite his bringing in a lot folk music elements.

I won't completely dismiss Rubinstein nor mock him like Prokofiev and Shostakovich did. His piano concertos are wonderful models of the 19th c virtuoso vehicle for a composer/performer. Too bad they're not played more often. His opera The Demon is also really quite good and not at all what you would expect having heard the symphonies. A lot of his solo piano works are also excellent and well worth knowing, besides the ubiquitous Melody in F.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I am actually listening to this fine performance. And I must say that this expanded version, though unnecessary and superfluous in the final analysis, contains to some fine, even arresting supplemental music, especially in the second movement.

Personally, I prefer the original version, but it is good to know Rubinstein's rethinking of the work.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

May i congratulate Saturday Symphony for bringing us an intriguing issue again. Rubinstein's second demands some stamina in the listening stakes. Rubinstein clearly intended the piece to be a lengthy one with this epic 7 movement revised symphony. I tend to dismiss original versions in all composers, so the 7 movements suits my listening.
Clearly a Mendelssohn influence in his music. Nothing wrong with that. 
There is some beautiful music in this symphony. Rubinstein was a progressive composer. He is learning his trade in these early works.
The conductor (Gunzenhauser) takes a steady pace. Not sure what the score demands in relation to the pace. Sound is a little thin in these early MarcoPolo recordings. 
Overall i enjoyed the work. I love a challenge and this was demanding. If you put listening effort in you certainly get something out of this symphony.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Something i do regularly with daunting works is the mix the listening order into manageable parts. So instead of listening from Movement I to VII, i will start with movement IV then maybe the scherzo movement, then a slow movement. Do something else like some household chores, shopping or go out for a walk and then come back and do the remaining movements. Once you are familiar with the music then listen to the full symphony in order and see how it all fits together. 
When i first started listening to Beethoven symphonies (years ago) I did the same and his music became more manageable and enjoyable.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Joachim Raff said:


> Something i do regularly with daunting works is the mix the listening order into manageable parts. So instead of listening from Movement I to VII, i will start with movement IV then maybe the scherzo movement, then a slow movement. Do something else like some household chores, shopping or go out for a walk and then come back and do the remaining movements. Once you are familiar with the music then listen to the full symphony in order and see how it all fits together.
> When i first started listening to Beethoven symphonies (years ago) I did the same and his music became more manageable and enjoyable.


Ah! Rubinstein's famous Pulp Fiction Symphony! :lol:


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