# Anyone familiar with this pianist?



## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

Honestly, she's probably the prettiest female Classical musician I've ever seen, but let's focus on the music, if we may?


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## Merl

I'm sure 99% of the men on this forum are familiar with Lola and her videos. She's not the greatest of pianists but she still has plenty of admirers. Can't understand why! :lol:


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## Red Terror

She might as well bang the keys with her posterior.


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## pianoville

A pretty crappy pianist, but looks can get you far.


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## Becca

Strange as it may seem, there are excellent pianists and violinists out there who aren't female, young and very attractive ... although one might not realize that given some of the recent threads on this site.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

pianoville said:


> A pretty crappy pianist, but looks can get you far.


Looks aside, I think she does fine; why not?


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

Becca said:


> Strange as it may seem, there are excellent pianists and violinists out there who aren't female, young and very attractive ... although one might not realize that given some of the recent threads on this site.


Daniel Barenboim is male, not young and I'm not attracted to guys, yet he's great and I have some of his CDs.


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## wkasimer

pianoville said:


> A pretty crappy pianist, but looks can get you far.


Maybe it's just me, but when I see a musician attired like Ms. Astanova, my assumption is that they're at best a second or third rate talent, who dresses provocatively to attract attention that she can't get via her playing. So when someone similarly dressed has actual first-class talent, that attire is actually counterproductive, at least for a listener like me.


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## Larkenfield

Yeah, she's a pretty "crappy" pianist playing with Hauser, one of the greatest cellists in the world. Listen to them play together; she's listening to every note that he's playing and sensitively blending in with him. She's probably playing up her sexuality because that's what it sometimes takes to get the attention of the public obsessed with physical appearance, but she's a trained and talented musician who's highly capable:


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## Oldhoosierdude

Sounds good to me. But then again they all do since I have not a shred of musical ability and only half a shred of musical knowledge. Heck, I even like Lang Lang.


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## joen_cph

Oncoming trend based on profit opportunities: performances in bikini or trunks.

Gulda (who could perform naked) considered too awkward, however.


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## brucknerian

Well good on her for making the most of her body and fashion sense!

Apparently Eileen Joyce used to perform wearing colourful, elaborate outfits. If anything, this enhanced the experience of her music.


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## millionrainbows

I wanna see Alfred Brendel play Beethoven in jockey shorts.


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## DavidA

brucknerian said:


> Well good on her for making the most of her body and fashion sense!
> 
> Apparently Eileen Joyce used to perform *wearing colourful, elaborate outfits*. If anything, this enhanced the experience of her music.


At least Eileen was wearing something! :lol:

It seems since Yuja Wang started wearing mini-skirts and sometimes hardly anything that other female pianists who consider themselves to have attractions (I don't like the look of this particular Barbie) want to copy. I would point out that Yuja made her career as a performer (as did Eileen Joyce incidentally) then added the dresses (or lack of them) later when the career was established. They didn't use it as a gimmick like this somewhat pretentious young woman appears to be doing. It gets tiresome. Just play woman!


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## Woodduck

This is deeply sexist and objectifying, and discriminates against men. Why is the cellist forced to cover himself? Can't he be naked and comfortable too? Are men nothing but clothes horses? Is Hauser being used to sell a line of fashions? Why does our culture approve of beauty and freedom in female attire - including freedom from attire - while men are kept in drab uniforms of shirts and pants? 

That's (semi)satirical, of course. What isn't satire is that the people who salivate and grin while looking at a nearly-naked woman playing the piano are apt to be the same people who would sneer or sweat with discomfort (repressed urges?) looking at a nearly-naked man playing the cello - namely, straight men, who remain more or less the arbiters of culture (and everything else). 

Behold classical music as patriarchal neurosis, in which both men and women continue to play their exaggerated, stereotypical roles as if they were natural and normal.


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## Minor Sixthist

Woodduck said:


> This is deeply sexist and objectifying, and discriminates against men. Why is the cellist forced to cover himself? Can't he be naked and comfortable too? Are men nothing but clothes horses? Is Hauser being used to sell a line of fashions? Why does our culture approve of beauty and freedom in female attire - including freedom from attire - while men are kept in drab uniforms of shirts and pants?
> 
> That's (semi)satirical, of course. What isn't satire is that the people who salivate and grin while looking at a nearly-naked woman playing the piano are apt to be the same people who would sneer or sweat with discomfort (repressed urges?) looking at a nearly-naked man playing the cello - namely, straight men, who remain more or less the arbiters of culture (and everything else).
> 
> Behold classical music as patriarchal neurosis, in which both men and women continue to play their exaggerated, stereotypical roles as if they were natural and normal.


I don't know, would people really mind if Hauser or another male cellist were shirtless in a video similar to this? Assuming a man could look attractive in the same ways Lola looks attractive here, I don't see what would keep some straight women from getting a similar kick out of that video as much as straight men get out of watching Lola and Yuja. Admittedly the male reaction may be much more pronounced, but straight women do have positive reactions to shirtless attractive men in movies, shows, commercials- would straight men really sneer with discomfort at what is clearly not marketed toward them?

I would also challenge that Lola dressing like that stems from "patriarchal neurosis." I do understand the thinking that leads to that impression (very well), but it's her personal choice to dress provocatively, in a way that accents her physique and prettiness- it's a trademark, it's how she brands herself. She must understand that she may well be attracting a very large chunk of her audience who only click to see her body, not to hear her playing. Personally, I would be paranoid doing that, having to think maybe the attention comes from somewhere outside the playing itself, and I think most of us agree that we would want to eliminate as many distractions to our own playing as possible. But considering the majority of successful concert pianists _don't_ dress in any particularly striking or unconventional way, I feel like it's safe to say Lola simply embraces marketing herself as a pianist who dresses flashily; her appearance is part of her act. That it's clearly her confidently-made choice to brand herself that way, with the knowledge that it's probably distracting and pandering to more of an audience than just the music-lovers, seems to suggest she's acting on her own whims more than any of the patriarchy. I don't see how filling a certain niche means she must be acting complicit with some man's wish, as long as we could assume she's doing what she wants as an independent artist, not deigning to do something somebody else pressured her to.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

Minor Sixthist said:


> I don't know, would people really mind if Hauser or another male cellist were shirtless in a video similar to this? Assuming a man could look attractive in the same ways Lola looks attractive here, I don't see what would keep some straight women from getting a similar kick out of that video as much as straight men get out of watching Lola and Yuja. Admittedly the male reaction may be much more pronounced, but straight women do have positive reactions to shirtless attractive men in movies, shows, commercials- would straight men really sneer with discomfort at what is clearly not marketed toward them?
> 
> I would also challenge that Lola dressing like that stems from "patriarchal neurosis." I do understand the thinking that leads to that impression (very well), but it's her personal choice to dress provocatively, in a way that accents her physique and prettiness- it's a trademark, it's how she brands herself. She must understand that she may well be attracting a very large chunk of her audience who only click to see her body, not to hear her playing. Personally, I would be paranoid doing that, having to think maybe the attention comes from somewhere outside the playing itself, and I think most of us agree that we would want to eliminate as many distractions to our own playing as possible. But considering the majority of successful concert pianists _don't_ dress in any particularly striking or unconventional way, *I feel like it's safe to say Lola simply embraces marketing herself as a pianist who dresses flashily; her appearance is part of her act. That it's clearly her confidently-made choice to brand herself that way, with the knowledge that it's probably distracting and pandering to more of an audience than just the music-lovers, seems to suggest she's acting on her own whims more than any of the patriarchy. I don't see how filling a certain niche means she must be acting complicit with some man's wish*, as long as we could assume she's doing what she wants as an independent artist, not deigning to do something somebody else pressured her to.


Well said. Not every professional musician has to aspire to meet some rigid standard of what it means to be a performer. People find different ways to distinguish themselves from the millions of talented performers out there all the time, even in classical music... think of Victor Borge. However, I do think that Woodduck makes valid and relevant points about the enforcement of gender roles in CM, and it is likely that, in many situations (especially in a concert setting, but even in a video like the ones posted in the OP), a male trying to look provocative during a performance would face substantially more resistance from audiences. While I agree that her self-fashioning is primarily a personal choice, it's important to consider the context and expectations surrounding that choice.

Anyway, on the topic of the OP, I personally don't think she's a very good pianist (or very pretty for that matter). But she's probably introduced countless people to classical music who otherwise might not have had much exposure to it, so I won't complain.


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## Becca

What would be interesting is to see the results of a blind comparison involving her and a few other well regarded pianists. For fairness it would be best to restrict the choices to those aged perhaps 25-45. I am not volunteering as I don't consider myself sufficiently knowledgeable in that area.


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## fluteman

Minor Sixthist said:


> I don't see how filling a certain niche means she must be acting complicit with some man's wish, as long as we could assume she's doing what she wants as an independent artist, not deigning to do something somebody else pressured her to.


But the thing is, she is a professional performer. And for professional performers seeking a successful career, connecting with the audience, an audience, any audience, is everything. Even for the most physically unattractive, drably attired musician, virtuoso technical skill and a profound understanding of musical principles and traditions mean very little unless they are used to put on a show that, for whatever reason or reasons, audiences find compelling and exciting.

In other words, there is no such thing as an "independent artist", at least not one who is trying to make a living performing on stage (or these days, maybe on youtube, live streaming, etc.).

As a straight man, I've been all too interested in beautiful women showing off their bodies from a very young age. But I have other interests, too. I've never heard of or seen Lola. She seems to be one of those women who draws an audience based on how she looks, in addition to how she sounds as a musician. I wouldn't be surprised if she is a fine musician as well. I think women who go on stage in skimpy, revealing outfits have to be very good musicians as well, otherwise the whole effect would be comical and ridiculous.

But with all the music and musicians to check out these days, I'm not giving any special attention to the near-naked women with large breasts. After all, there are numerous musicians who have risen to prominence without the advantage of those assets, and who remain fully dressed on stage. I'm interested to hear what they have to offer.


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## Open Book

She's doing the same thing pop musicians do, making sex part of the act. Audiences like sex appeal in a performer, they think it adds competence somehow. That's always been true. But she's so extreme it's clownish, really.

There's no correlation between looks and talent. I'm not saying she can't be a good musician but it's off-putting to see someone trying so hard, cheating for attention. 

Yet I admit that when I was young I was guilty of being more interested in good-looking performers. As a result I was missing out on a lot of those of modest appearance or less who were just as good or better. I'm ashamed of that now.

I went to a symphony concert a few years ago and a youngish male pianist was on the roster. Sure enough, the number of lone young female audience members skyrocketed, obvious among the mostly grey heads. I smiled to myself because I would have been one of those 20-year-olds at one time.


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## Open Book

Becca said:


> What would be interesting is to see the results of a blind comparison involving her and a few other well regarded pianists. For fairness it would be best to restrict the choices to those aged perhaps 25-45. I am not volunteering as I don't consider myself sufficiently knowledgeable in that area.


Good idea, but why does it matter what age group she gets compared to if it's a blind test?

I think you're implying that looks influence audience perceptions, and I think you're right.


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## DavidA

Open Book said:


> She's doing the same thing pop musicians do, making sex part of the act. Audiences like sex appeal in a performer, they think it adds competence somehow. That's always been true. But she's so extreme it's clownish, really.
> 
> There's no correlation between looks and talent. I'm not saying she can't be a good musician but *it's off-putting to see someone trying so hard, cheating for attention. *
> 
> Yet I admit that when I was young I was guilty of being more interested in good-looking performers. As a result I was missing out on a lot of those of modest appearance or less who were just as good or better. I'm ashamed of that now.
> 
> I went to a symphony concert a few years ago and a youngish male pianist was on the roster. Sure enough, the number of lone young female audience members skyrocketed, obvious among the mostly grey heads. I smiled to myself because I would have been one of those 20-year-olds at one time.


That is exactly right! The impression I get. Yuja Wang dresses like she does because she wants to and because she wants to shock the old so-and-so's out of their seats. This girl does it to try to get attention. You feel like saying, "Cover 'em up!!"


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## Becca

Open Book said:


> Good idea, but why does it matter what age group she gets compared to if it's a blind test?
> 
> I think you're implying that looks influence audience perceptions, and I think you're right.


The age range is to compare more fairly based on performing experience.


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## Minor Sixthist

fluteman said:


> But the thing is, she is a professional performer. And for professional performers seeking a successful career, connecting with the audience, an audience, any audience, is everything. Even for the most physically unattractive, drably attired musician, virtuoso technical skill and a profound understanding of musical principles and traditions mean very little unless they are used to put on a show that, for whatever reason or reasons, audiences find compelling and exciting.
> 
> In other words, there is no such thing as an "independent artist", at least not one who is trying to make a living performing on stage (or these days, maybe on youtube, live streaming, etc.).


I agree that every good performer has to put on a show, but all I meant by independent artist was that her trademark of dress and performance is what she chose to make of herself, for better or for worse, not what she felt pressured to wear or do because 'the patriarchy.' She chose what audience(s) she was targeting; she just as easily could have chosen to dress conservatively and only appeal to people who appreciated her skill, but she just chose instead to target a mixed audience of people who like her music, people who want to look at her body, and both. I had never heard a word of this woman either before this thread. But she's an adult, she's not braindead, we know she's got some sense: she knows what she made of herself. She's not surprised if she scrolls through her comments and sees a bunch of spiteful men calling her a wh*** and telling her to cover up. She knows what she is, and my only point was that her choice wasn't made in order to fulfill some patriarchal role.



> As a straight man, I've been all too interested in beautiful women showing off their bodies from a very young age. But I have other interests, too. I've never heard of or seen Lola. She seems to be one of those women who draws an audience based on how she looks, in addition to how she sounds as a musician. I wouldn't be surprised if she is a fine musician as well. I think women who go on stage in skimpy, revealing outfits have to be very good musicians as well, otherwise the whole effect would be comical and ridiculous.
> 
> But with all the music and musicians to check out these days, I'm not giving any special attention to the near-naked women with large breasts. After all, there are numerous musicians who have risen to prominence without the advantage of those assets, and who remain fully dressed on stage. I'm interested to hear what they have to offer


I agree with you, and I'm sure tons of listeners share that same sentiment. I know I share it. I wouldn't be interested in a near-naked man playing the cello either. In fact, any musical act that puts too much emphasis on the appearance of the performers, and wears it as a trademark, isn't anything that's ever appealed to me. The Jusser brothers come to mind, this duo of twin Dutch brothers who play piano together. They really play the act of "hot blond twins who could play two-hand Mozart concerti on top of one another." I saw them with Philadelphia twice or three times, and I was indifferent to the whole thing, if not irked by them. They definitely did look like 'dreamy' Disney Channel stars with perfect smiles, and a lot of my friends did fawn over them, but I know I personally just came for the music. Then again, I was bored by that particular concerto anyway, and I just wished they'd hurry up and get to the Mahler in the second half. Maybe it's that blonds just aren't my thing.


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## Minor Sixthist

Open Book said:


> She's doing the same thing pop musicians do, making sex part of the act. Audiences like sex appeal in a performer, they think it adds competence somehow. That's always been true. But she's so extreme it's clownish, really.
> 
> There's no correlation between looks and talent. *I'm not saying she can't be a good musician but it's off-putting to see someone trying so hard, cheating for attention. *
> 
> Yet I admit that when I was young I was guilty of being more interested in good-looking performers. As a result I was missing out on a lot of those of modest appearance or less who were just as good or better. I'm ashamed of that now.
> 
> I went to a symphony concert a few years ago and a youngish male pianist was on the roster. Sure enough, the number of lone young female audience members skyrocketed, obvious among the mostly grey heads. I smiled to myself because I would have been one of those 20-year-olds at one time.


How is she cheating? She knows you know what she's doing. She's not trying to be deceptive. We all have ears, and the ability to simply shut our eyes and give her a "blind test" if we wanted to judge her impartial to her dress.

The audience doesn't think the sex appeal adds competence, and I don't think anybody actually thinks sex appeal _adds_ talent. It adds just that, appeal. It's not like people aren't aware of what they're watching. Like fluteman said, there are plenty of great pianists out there, men and women, so it's not like you can't skip over this one if her dress is too distracting.


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## Open Book

Minor Sixthist said:


> How is she cheating? She knows you know what she's doing. She's not trying to be deceptive. We all have ears, and the ability to simply shut our eyes and give her a "blind test" if we wanted to judge her impartial to her dress.
> 
> The audience doesn't think the sex appeal adds competence, and I don't think anybody actually thinks sex appeal _adds_ talent. It adds just that, appeal. It's not like people aren't aware of what they're watching. Like fluteman said, there are plenty of great pianists out there, men and women, so it's not like you can't skip over this one if her dress is too distracting.


You just said you were "irked" and "put off" by the male blond twins. So why can't I be put off by this woman doing the exact same thing? Pandering to that part of the audience that needs a serving of sex with their music.

She's doing it to get more attention, more hits, with the goal being a bigger career and more money. Not because she feels comfortable dressing that way.


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## Open Book

Becca said:


> The age range is to compare more fairly based on performing experience.


Can you usually tell the difference between old and young pianists in a blind test? Old implies more experience, but does that translate to deepening interpretations or being more jaded and in a rut from playing the same things over and over? Age could result in loss of ability, or you can be hearing could be a young pianist with modest physical ability.


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## Becca

Open Book said:


> Can you usually tell the difference between old and young pianists in a blind test? Old implies more experience, but does that translate to deepening interpretations or being more jaded and in a rut from playing the same things things over and over? Age could result in loss of ability, or you can be hearing could be a young pianist with modest physical ability.


Perhaps .. sometimes .. maybe .. not sure  Just one way of possibly giving a more even 'playing field'


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## Minor Sixthist

Open Book said:


> You just said you were "irked" and "put off" by the male blond twins. So why can't I be put off by this woman doing the exact same thing? Pandering to that part of the audience that needs a serving of sex with their music.


I did say that. I did not say you couldn't be put off by this woman, of course. All I said, actually, was that it was silly of you to say that audiences "think [her sex appeal] adds competence somehow." Who ever suggested her sex appeal added to her pianistic competence? On the contrary, more of the immediate judgements people seem to make after seeing her dress is that she's a crappy pianist. People seem more willing to say her sex appeal detracts from her piano skills than adds to them, especially here on TC. Her audiences knows exactly what they're watching and why. It's not "cheating for attention" because cheating is acting dishonestly to gain an advantage. She didn't brand herself as "traditional conservative classical pianist." I have yet to see what she cheated at.



> She's doing it to get more attention, more hits, with the goal being a bigger career and more money.


What performer doesn't want that? She happens to be willing to go to a different length than most other classical performers would. She's the one leaving with the cash in her pocket. Who are we to get upset about it?


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## Woodduck

Minor Sixthist said:


> I don't know, would people really mind if Hauser or another male cellist were shirtless in a video similar to this? Assuming a man could look attractive in the same ways Lola looks attractive here, I don't see what would keep some straight women from getting a similar kick out of that video as much as straight men get out of watching Lola and Yuja. Admittedly the male reaction may be much more pronounced, but straight women do have positive reactions to shirtless attractive men in movies, shows, commercials- would straight men really sneer with discomfort at what is clearly not marketed toward them?
> 
> I would also challenge that Lola dressing like that stems from "patriarchal neurosis." I do understand the thinking that leads to that impression (very well), but it's her personal choice to dress provocatively, in a way that accents her physique and prettiness- it's a trademark, it's how she brands herself. She must understand that she may well be attracting a very large chunk of her audience who only click to see her body, not to hear her playing. Personally, I would be paranoid doing that, having to think maybe the attention comes from somewhere outside the playing itself, and I think most of us agree that we would want to eliminate as many distractions to our own playing as possible. But considering the majority of successful concert pianists _don't_ dress in any particularly striking or unconventional way, I feel like it's safe to say Lola simply embraces marketing herself as a pianist who dresses flashily; her appearance is part of her act. That it's clearly her confidently-made choice to brand herself that way, with the knowledge that it's probably distracting and pandering to more of an audience than just the music-lovers, seems to suggest she's acting on her own whims more than any of the patriarchy. I don't see how filling a certain niche means she must be acting complicit with some man's wish, as long as we could assume she's doing what she wants as an independent artist, not deigning to do something somebody else pressured her to.


My point was not to criticize the pianist or to deny her the right to dress as she wishes, but merely to satirize the very obvious and absurd sexual stereotyping represented by the spectacle of a classical music performance featuring a conventionally clad male and an almost unclad female. It isn't a question of a patriarchal culture forcing a woman to do anything she doesn't want to do, but of what it tells us about that culture that a woman would _want_ to do this particular thing, and that people would think this was normal for a woman when they would probably find the sight of a man doing it ridiculous.

I would like to suggest that this chaste little porn show could be given more depth by locating Lola and her friend in Stonehenge or atop George Washington's head at Mt. Rushmore.


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## Guest

I haven't read all of the thread so I may be repeating what others have said. I find the video to be quite ridiculous. At first It didn't strike me as anything to be taken seriously as a piece of music. I thought it was going to break out into an advert for some kind of beauty treatment or similar. When I realised it was intended to be a serious recital (is it?) it didn't like any of it. I couldn't bring myself around to watch it a second time.


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## Woodduck

Promise her anything. But give her Prelude in E Minor.


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## Open Book

Minor Sixthist said:


> I did say that. I did not say you couldn't be put off by this woman, of course. All I said, actually, was that it was silly of you to say that audiences "think [her sex appeal] adds competence somehow." Who ever suggested her sex appeal added to her pianistic competence? On the contrary, more of the immediate judgements people seem to make after seeing her dress is that she's a crappy pianist. People seem more willing to say her sex appeal detracts from her piano skills than adds to them, especially here on TC. Her audiences knows exactly what they're watching and why. It's not "cheating for attention" because cheating is acting dishonestly to gain an advantage. She didn't brand herself as "traditional conservative classical pianist." I have yet to see what she cheated at.
> 
> What performer doesn't want that? She happens to be willing to go to a different length than most other classical performers would. She's the one leaving with the cash in her pocket. Who are we to get upset about it?


Handsome people are judged more favorably in every way, including in competence, even if it's a marginal advantage they gain. Even if our heads tell us there shouldn't be any advantage, our hearts are persuaded by physical attractiveness and charisma.

When you overdo it, and your looks are gotten by artificial means, it doesn't work anymore, though.

"What performer doesn't want that? She happens to be willing to go to a different length than most other classical performers would. She's the one leaving with the cash in her pocket. Who are we to get upset about it?"

It does the music a disservice. Classical performance is supposed to be about the music.


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## Open Book

Woodduck said:


> My point was not to criticize the pianist or to deny her the right to dress as she wishes, but merely to satirize the very obvious and absurd sexual stereotyping represented by the spectacle of a classical music performance featuring a conventionally clad male and an almost unclad female. It isn't a question of a patriarchal culture forcing a woman to do anything she doesn't want to do, but of what it tells us about that culture that a woman would _want_ to do this particular thing, and that people would think this was normal for a woman when they would probably find the sight of a man doing it ridiculous.
> 
> I would like to suggest that this chaste little porn show could be given more depth by locating Lola and her friend in Stonehenge or atop George Washington's head at Mt. Rushmore.


This is not unique to the culture of classical music, so why pick on "the patriarchal culture of CM" all the time?

Unless they are the jeans-and-tee-shirt type, women are always dressing more provocatively than men. Cutouts strategically placed on garments to allow flashes of skin.

If a man dresses so that he is half naked, and we're not at the beach, I don't think straight women find that appealing, I think gay men find that appealing. The behavior of the genders is not reciprocal.


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## Woodduck

Open Book said:


> This is not unique to the culture of classical music, so why pick on "the patriarchal culture of CM" all the time?


I wasn't picking on the culture of CM, merely remarking on the inappropriate invasion of CM by the general culture.



> Unless they are the jeans-and-tee-shirt type, women are always dressing more provocatively than men.


In our culture, yes.



> If a man dresses so that he is half naked, and we're not at the beach, I don't think straight women find that appealing, I think gay men find that appealing. The behavior of the genders is not reciprocal.


What makes you think gay male music lovers want to see naked male cellists playing Dvorak?


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## DavidA

Open Book said:


> This is not unique to the culture of classical music, so why pick on "the patriarchal culture of CM" all the time?
> 
> Unless they are the jeans-and-tee-shirt type, women are always dressing more provocatively than men. Cutouts strategically placed on garments to allow flashes of skin.
> 
> If a *man dresses so that he is half naked*, and we're not at the beach, I don't think straight women find that appealing, I think gay men find that appealing. The behavior of the genders is not reciprocal.


Interesting that Gulda once gave a concert in the nude I believe! :lol:


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## KenOC

DavidA said:


> Interesting that Gulda once gave a concert in the nude I believe! :lol:


Now _there's_ an image that should be strangled at birth.


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## Woodduck

Straying just slightly outside the realm of high culture, I think politicians should make all public appearances in the nude. This might lead to a more equal gender representation in public office. It would also allow us to guage the anatomical accuracy of the Trump baby blimp.


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## Minor Sixthist

> It does the music a disservice. Classical performance is supposed to be about the music.


I agree with you, classical performance should be about the music. So I guess the judgement would then depend on how these performances are advertised to people, and that's not something I looked into. Is she only YouTube-famous? YouTube is a place where anyone could go viral doing just about anything, so as long as she's not going to concert halls and advertising herself as any old classical pianist, I don't see what the problem is.

She's like a pop artist, and honestly, if her performances draw some attention to CM from outside CM's immediate sphere, I'm not one to feel scornful or dismissive, like our world is being invaded by those lowly pop-lovers (not to suggest you are). See if some of those people who watched her play came to like what she was actually playing, and then became listeners who did appreciate all the nuances of genuine classical music. That's not impossible. TC has an unhealthy tendency to look down on "everyone else." I know I'm preaching to the choir, but guys, we're not that special. It doesn't have to be as us-and-them as we make it out to be.


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## Larkenfield

Lola is the opportunity for someone to say, “She’s not only beautiful but she’s amazingly talented.” I see the combination of attractiveness and talent becoming the norm, whether as pianists, cellists, or on any instrument. It’s like a new species of human beings being born who are blessed with both and a pleasure to hear and see. It would be easy to provide a long list of such performers, perhaps not as spectacular as Lola but still charming and highly attractive. Khatia Buniatishvili and Anna Fedorova.


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## KenOC

It seems to me that if lady pianists can dress provocatively in order to arouse lustful thoughts, male pianists can do likewise. It's only fair!


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## fluteman

Woodduck said:


> My point was not to criticize the pianist or to deny her the right to dress as she wishes, but merely to satirize the very obvious and absurd sexual stereotyping represented by the spectacle of a classical music performance featuring a conventionally clad male and an almost unclad female. It isn't a question of a patriarchal culture forcing a woman to do anything she doesn't want to do, but of what it tells us about that culture that a woman would _want_ to do this particular thing, and that people would think this was normal for a woman when they would probably find the sight of a man doing it ridiculous.
> 
> I would like to suggest that this chaste little porn show could be given more depth by locating Lola and her friend in Stonehenge or atop George Washington's head at Mt. Rushmore.


Yes, I made exactly the same point in another thread on this general topic. There, someone posted a youtube video of a chamber music trio. The two men of the trio wore somber dark suits, while the woman wore a see-through lacy top revealing a black bra underneath. Not exactly porn, but the enormous contrast looked pretty silly and imho detracted from an otherwise serious and fine performance of a major chamber music work. The idea of wearing somber dark or even black attire in general is to not distract the audience from what they are hearing with what they are seeing. There are puppet shows where the puppeteer is not behind a curtain but wears attire that blends in with the background or the puppet It can be very effective at making the puppeteer disappear, and the puppets seem self-animating. The Broadway musical The Lion King is a large-scale example of this technique at work. But you can't let the female puppeteers dress in an attention-grabbing way and still make it work.

It is an unfortunate and very sexist tradition of western classical music that women but not men are expected to look good on stage. I wonder, if Jacqueline du Pre had been chubby and worn thick glasses like Rostropovich, would she still have achieved the same stardom? Yes, today's classical stars do include some good looking young men, but a man can still be chubby, and/or bald, and/or short, and/or have overly bushy eyebrows, and still be a star soloist. The discrepancy is still there.

Edit: And I finally listened to LoLa. Very ordinary, imho. Her body is very much the point of the presentation. Yuja Wang would be offended to be equated with her, to say the least.


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that if lady pianists can dress provocatively in order to arouse lustful thoughts, male pianists can do likewise. It's only fair!


Doubt whether lust would be aroused. Vomit maybe?


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## EdwardBast

I would like to challenge the premise of the thread -- that the pianist's look is attractive.  Dolled up, face-painted, beefy Las Vegas hooker in seven-inch heels doesn't do it for me.


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## Woodduck

EdwardBast said:


> I would like to challenge the premise of the thread -- that the pianist's look is attractive.  Dolled up, face-painted, beefy Las Vegas hooker in seven-inch heels doesn't do it for me.


Not for me either (although possibly for different reasons).


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## DeepR

Somewhere underneath all that sexing up of piano playing, the layers of make-up and glitter, the seeking of attention, affirmation and approval, the self-obsession and exhibitionism through youtube and instagram... somewhere underneath all that is a beautiful woman. Too bad.


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## joen_cph

And the result is attractive only to some ...


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## KenOC

C'mon fellas, it's show biz! Nothing new here, just a gal trying to make a living and, like many others, packaging the product.


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## joen_cph

Yes, I guess the Pattaya nightlife segment would represent a new, profitable market.


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## KenOC

joen_cph said:


> Yes, I guess the Pattaya nightlife segment would represent a new, profitable market.


I can assure you that Pattaya's nightlife has been profitable for a very long time.


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## Open Book

fluteman said:


> Yes, I made exactly the same point in another thread on this general topic. There, someone posted a youtube video of a chamber music trio. The two men of the trio wore somber dark suits, while the woman wore a see-through lacy top revealing a black bra underneath. Not exactly porn, but the enormous contrast looked pretty silly and imho detracted from an otherwise serious and fine performance of a major chamber music work. The idea of wearing somber dark or even black attire in general is to not distract the audience from what they are hearing with what they are seeing.


I was the one who posted that, here's the link:







fluteman said:


> It is an unfortunate and very sexist tradition of western classical music that women but not men are expected to look good on stage. I wonder, if Jacqueline du Pre had been chubby and worn thick glasses like Rostropovich, would she still have achieved the same stardom? Yes, today's classical stars do include some good looking young men, but a man can still be chubby, and/or bald, and/or short, and/or have overly bushy eyebrows, and still be a star soloist. The discrepancy is still there.


Women are expected to look good in every context, not just on stage, not just in classical music. Pop music is even worse. There have been several very overweight singers whose supreme talent gave them a career in opera. They would probably have had no career if they wanted to be pop music singers.

Poor oppressed women, are we being forced to look good by society? Women love fashion and dressing up, men not so much. Very few women completely disdain fashion. If you liberated women from fashion many would be depressed. Men in classical music actually have it worse. They have to wear cumbersome tuxes even at outdoor summer festivals and they all look alike. Women have a lot of freedom, they don't have to sweat or have all that cloth hanging off their bowing arm or whatever.



fluteman said:


> Edit: And I finally listened to LoLa. Very ordinary, imho. Her body is very much the point of the presentation. Yuja Wang would be offended to be equated with her, to say the least.


So even her name is gimmicky, spelled LoLa. That's what's annoying about LoLa, she's trying too hard. She's not just playing the piano, she looks like she's riding it. I'm actually kind of OK with the dress on the woman in my video. It's more tasteful than Anne-Sophie Mutter's strapless dresses.


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## fluteman

Open Book said:


> I was the one who posted that, here's the link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women are expected to look good in every context, not just on stage, not just in classical music.


Yes, that's true. In fact, everything you wrote in your post is true, so there is not much point in arguing with you. But, you see, music, and classical music in particular, is my thing, and my wife knows and accepts that, or she wouldn't have become my wife. I don't need it prettied up with a Vegas hooker type (no offense or disrespect intended to you guys who like Vegas hookers, CASG), or even an elegant, classy beautiful woman. Though the latter would not be intolerable, I'll take my music straight, no chaser. Thanks. And I notice some other posters here feel the same way.

That is an emotional, irrational response to your post, and fails utterly to refute any of your points. Isn't that just like a man.


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## KenOC

joen_cph said:


> Yes, I guess the Pattaya nightlife segment would represent a new, profitable market.


Speaking of Pattaya, Mikhail Pletnev was arrested there in July 2010 on charges of sexually molesting a 15-year old boy. It seems the police investigation found that while Pletnev may indeed have had sex with the boy, the charges were brought when he refused to accede to extortionate demands (from the boy's father, I think).

The police of course did not want to interfere with Pattaya's chief industry, so the charges were ultimately dropped. Meanwhile, Pletnev was blacklisted and his visa was pulled, and he met bail and left the country. I don't know how this played out, or whether Pletnev was finally allowed use of his Pattaya villa once more.


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## Aleksandr Rachkofiev

Do these types of threads seem to be a recurring thing or is it just me?

I've made it a habit over the years to always make my first listen a blind one whenever I want to really gauge the merit of a performance. Sometimes the "performance" bit really detracts from the "interpretation part" (ex: Jean-Yves Thibaudet and Joshua Bell both like to move. A lot.), so it's good to remove the bias and just hear the audio sometimes.

With that in mind, though I briefly saw the thumbnails of the videos, I did blind listens to all 3 pieces, and I can't say I was too impressed. I'll give this lady the benefit of the doubt considering the pieces she chose have been played *so many times* it's hard to produce an interpretation that stands out from the crowd. I don't consider this person's performances anything worth coming back for. It might sound harsh, but that's just me being completely honest.

When I watched the video the intent of the performance unfortunately became a lot clearer. The focal point of the videos is designed to be her, not the music. The tradition of wearing certain clothing is not about gender roles, heck you don't even need to cover yourself up fully if that's not what you want to do. The point is to wear something *modest* - because it's not about you, it's about what you have to say, and more importantly, what the composer has to say. I'm old fashioned, so I firmly hold that it is mostly the duty of a musician to be a composer or an interpreter. If you are interpreting Beethoven, you are attempting to communicate best what Beethoven had to say in the piece he wrote. I can see how flashy lighting and dress (certainly not hers though) might amplify a performance of Scriabin's later orchestral works if done right, but I can't for the life of me figure out how purple/blue lighting, clownish makeup, and excessive shots of legs/sparkly bracelets/occasional cleavage/strutting add to Beethoven. If you have an idea, I'd like to hear it - because to me it seems like the purpose of these is to draw attention to the performer, and by extension away from the music.

But hey who says everybody sees it that way right? I'm just another crusty old teen who is fully comfortable sitting on his **** judging others while not daring to create anything of worth himself. Well, granted you could debate how representative the sample is of the population but let's have a look at the comments under her Fur Elise:

"Who said "beauty" has no talent? Absolutely amazing... thanks for sharing."

"Lola, this is a very sensitive, spirited, and splendid performance of a timeless classic!! I enjoyed it very much. You look sensational in the beautiful, glittering dress, surrounded in a pink and blue ambiance. I also dig the crystal (or diamond) chain on your thigh. You get a lot of criticism for adding sensuality to classical music, but I admire you for it. Way to go, girl!"

"Even Steve Wonder can see she's beautiful."

"Obviously she is a great musician... but to be fair... she looks so good she could be listening to the radio and I would be watching her... lol"

"Is it normal to sit so far away from the keyboard or she doing it to show how long her legs are ? Great performance and she is beautiful though"

Look through the entire comments section and I guarantee you'll find more of the same - the vast majority of people comment on the looks as having primary importance, with the side note that she's also "talented" [insert pretentious and slightly arrogant scoff]. As Larkenfield put it, "She's not only beautiful but she's amazingly talented." - notice which adjective comes first. The music is not what people are paying attention to.

I'm also not saying (to clarify) that beauty inherently detracts from all performances. In this case though, it's not beauty, it's attempted sensuality, and it very much does detract from the performance if it is watched as a video like it is meant to be. Argerich was gorgeous as a young girl (and even when old, her post concert smile still shows a beautiful love of music that never aged despite her 78 years), but she was also modest. When she was performing, she was no longer a beautiful woman, she was beautiful music. I can't say the same for this "LoLa" girl. Hopefully it's a phase she'll grow out of. I just think it's so irritating when people are this narcissistic - they just take something beautiful and universal and use it to attract attention to themselves and it irritates the heck out of me.

And seriously guys, (excuse me, the longer I write this the more emotional and less forgiving I become - this irritates me on a personal level) even comparing this "LoLa" person to Anna Fedorova or Yuja Wang and suggesting similarities is a massive insult. Check out Wang's Scriabin Sonata No.10 and Prokofiev Piano Concerto No.2, then come back and watch "LoLa"'s Fur Elise and tell me if they're in the same league. I know none of you said that originally (and this is a Straw-man and generally irrational argument) but I'm just royally pissed off and need to get this out, sorry to collateral damage :devil:

And for the record if it weren't obvious already I would disagree that this "LoLa" person is attractive in the way she currently presents herself.

*Comment continued a few hours later*

All right. I waited a little before I posted this because I wanted to cool off a little bit and give this person a more fair analysis. I still however will leave the first part of the comment because I think I said some meaningful things there, and my crudeness is a reminder to me to not post while fuming 

Looking at her channel, it seems there's a definite trend towards overproduced, showmanship-y, sexualized content. Looking at her first video on Rachmaninoff's Moments Musicaux, it seems her original intentions weren't terrible (despite her slightly cringe-worthy flourish at the end), but looking at the most recent one, it seems she's shifted away from classical and towards pop, which is fine, it's just a decision. All the videos posted on this thread were also pop music masquerading as classical.

I probably shouldn't judge people's character entirely by what they put online, however it's undeniable that what we choose to represent ourselves with online is a choice that reflects our values, even if the facade we use doesn't directly reflect who we think we are. Anyway I'll give this lady the benefit of the doubt and pass it off as her just trying to make a career.

My rant is concluded. For now.


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## KenOC

I don't get it. If you don't like the way she plays, there are plenty of other performances to listen to. If you don't like the way she dresses, there are plenty of other performances to watch.

So where's the beef?


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## Aleksandr Rachkofiev

First of all KenOC, I actually sort of agree with you in this particular situation, but (and forgive me if I'm straw-manning again) if you follow that line of logic, you might as well not criticize any performance, as nobody forces you to hear that one, there are others for you to listen to, and it likely just suits a different target audience than the one you're a part of. If this is actually what you are suggesting than fair enough, however I highly doubt anyone on this forum has made it to 19,000 posts without ever criticizing someone's performance (though actually do correct me if I'm wrong I'm uncomfortable assuming things). 

Additionally, I don't buy the logic that no artistic interpretation is better than any other because they just appeal to different aspects of different people, which is admittedly a large extrapolation of the reasoning of your post. I think there's definitely such a thing as art that is better than other art, and my metric for judging that is how many people appreciate it and to what extent they appreciate it. This is why I cited the comments of her music instead of solely my own opinion. I think what these people write indicates to me that her performances don't resonate with people as other performances might (and have for me) - they merely lead to in-the-moment appreciation through more superficial methods.

I will certainly seek out other performances, but I listened to this once because I respect Clouds Weep Snowflakes enough to listen to his/her suggestions with an open mind, then close it afterwords and share my reaction


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## joen_cph

Let me know when a dedicated modern pole-dancing Intermezzo by Grieg or Beethoven (or Chopin  ) is discovered.


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## DeepR

I've watched some home made videos of LoLa years ago. She can play, although her technique seems a bit forced. 
I remember she actually did some fun videos back then, like an improvisation on the happy birthday theme. At least that felt a little genuine. Her clothing also wasn't as over the top.
But when I look at her videos now, and her Instagram, it's quite obvious that this is more about herself, her looks and "stardom" than it is about music.


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## Larkenfield

It must be a great hardship for Hauser to play with Lola, for not only is she beautiful but she's talented and the talent didn't just develop by itself automatically. She had to develop it herself with proper training and hard work. I've seen other pictures of her where she's dressed nicely but normally. Being exceptionally attractive and talented, I can imagine many time she was hit on growing up even in the more rarefied atmosphere of the arts which has been known to harbor a few wolves in sheep's clothing.


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## fluteman

Larkenfield said:


> It must be a great hardship for Hauser to play with Lola, for not only is she beautiful but she's talented and the talent didn't just develop by itself automatically. She had to develop it herself with proper training and hard work. I've seen other pictures of her where she's dressed nicely but normally. Being exceptionally attractive and talented, I can imagine many time she was hit on growing up even in the more rarefied atmosphere of the arts which has been known to harbor a few wolves in sheep's clothing.


After listening to a number of her videos, my only disagreement with any of that is that to me she is clearly not exceptionally talented, at least not in the context of major international soloists. A competent professional, yes. Exceptionally talented in the context of humanity in general, yes. But I'm hearing technically sound but otherwise ordinary and uninspired performances of solo piano standards. I don't think she would be a star without her sexy body, and it's obvious she doesn't think so either. Her act may work for her, and you, but it leaves me feeling cheated.

There is a long tradition of very professional and very good, but not great, pianists achieving stardom through gimmickry. Liberace is the shining example. To his credit, he did it with his showmanship and charisma, not his looks. The outlandish outfits and behavior came late in his career.


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## Open Book

Aleksandr Rachkofiev said:


> I will certainly seek out other performances, but I listened to this once because I respect Clouds Weep Snowflakes enough to listen to his/her suggestions with an open mind,


I believe this isn't the first thread of this type from Clouds Weep Snowflakes. I'd like to see him start a thread where he is anxious to share his discovery of a female musician who has transported him, and it's Wanda Landowska or some such.


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## Open Book

What do people think of the male cellist who is a willing participant in LoLa's videos?


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## Mandryka

Open Book said:


> or some such.


You mean, or some such lesbian?


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## Open Book

Mandryka said:


> You mean, or some such lesbian?


Do you think it's impossible that LoLa is a lesbian?


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## Larkenfield

Open Book said:


> What do people think of the male cellist who is a willing participant in LoLa's videos?


Hauser a rising up-and-comer:






Their video was an obvious promotional effort for both of them, not to be taken too seriously, and they are not without talent. She is an accomplished Chopin interpreter.


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## Mandryka

What's interesting there is the way he's moving, as if to give the impression that the sound is coming from within his body, like a singer. His image projected big for the audience to enjoy. I know there's some precedent for this type of projection in the USA, I've never seen it done in Europe. A cultural difference which may well go quite deep if explored. 

That is not unrelated to the topic of the thread, the sexing of music.


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## Luchesi

Should I feel sorry for the women performers who can't look like her? Male performers don't have to worry about that. 

A pretty young girl is just an accident of nature.

"Life is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not."
Oscar Wilde


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## CypressWillow

I can think of many adjectives that might apply to this type of performance; "Classy" would not be one.


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