# Round 2:Soprano: Elsa's Dream: Schwartzkopf, Grummer, Flagstad



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

In my 100th birthday tribute to Tebaldi it was pointed out that she also did a really great rendition of this aria and I am including the link below.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is Tebaldi's version but it was in Italian so it would disqualify it for some of you. You would also put down my sister's career as all roles including Violetta were translated into German, which was the custom of the time. I had the album set that included this photo as a teenager and I thought she looked absolutely fabulous in the cover photo.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

This is a difficult one Seattle. I like all of them but I’m just going to give the nod to Grümmer because I have a soft spot for her vulnerable interpretation. I don’t even mind the slight tremor in her voice.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Schwarzkopf: Simply not enough voice for this music. She has to rely on interpretation, and so it comes off as mannered to me. It's pretty, but it's not beautiful.

Grummer: Grummer's voice is an odd combination of silvery and slightly harsh. Something isn't completely right with her registration. She also is a bit on the small side vocally speaking. She does a fine job with it, but nothing grabbed me.

Flagstad: Now we're talking. Much more voice than the other two allows her to sing with an unaffected but expressive line. This sounds like older Flagstad so voice is more of a slightly tarnished bronze than the pure liquid gold of her earlier career, but it's still very beautiful and strong.

Tebaldi: She doesn't get a vote slot, but wow does she sound good in this music. Vocally speaking, she dominates everyone here not named Flagstad. I've always thought that she should have ditched Italian roles that didn't suit her like Violetta and even Mimi (just too much inherent power for the role, and I'd rather hear someone who has the right voice than someone who unnaturally slims theirs down) for the more lyric Wagner roles like Elsa, Eva, and Sieglinde. I'm still mad we didn't get a _Die Walkure_ Act I, a _Lohengrin_, or even a _Tristan_ out of her and Del Monaco. Anyway, Wagner suits her as he rarely goes into the stratosphere and requires a big, clear middle voice with no wobble. That fits her voice perfectly. Also, her exceptional legato would help to invigorate some of Wagner's less inspired passages of vocal writing. She also tended to be more poised than fiery in her manner and bearing, and that would have suited Germanic roles over some Italian roles that need firebrand to make them come alive. In short, I really like Tebaldi's Wagner, and it's too bad that she didn't perform his work more.

Overall, Flagstad gets it.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Most interesting how different ears hear things differently.

I asked myself, "is this a dream?" Shouldn't it be sung almost like a lullaby? I am not a Lohengrin expert in any way so I don't know the answer to my question, but I do kknow one thing: there were 2 singers there with extremely powerful voices and just didn't seem right so I had to nix Grummer and Tebaldi (with her most gorgeous voice of them all). I know Flagstad has a powerful voice but somehow was able to be more plaintive but Schwarzkopf for me had the most sensitivity and hope in her sound so I felt she touched me the most.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Schwarzkopf indeed conveys the dream-like state perfectly but, as noted above, has not enough voice for such a part.
Grümmer is able to realize all the buildups and climaxes easily, the voice is very sweet and strong (a bit dry in places but it's almost nothing).
Now it's a very tall order for any soprano to compete with the Flagship of Wagner repertoire! But I guess it's a late recording, there are some unsure notes and the tone isn't quite fitting for a (supposedly very young) Elsa.
So this time I vote for Grümmer with an easy heart.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Schwarzkopf: Simply not enough voice for this music. She has to rely on interpretation, and so it comes off as mannered to me. It's pretty, but it's not beautiful.
> 
> Grummer: Grummer's voice is an odd combination of silvery and slightly harsh. Something isn't completely right with her registration. She also is a bit on the small side vocally speaking. She does a fine job with it, but nothing grabbed me.
> 
> ...


If you comment on one of my contests my day is made. You should like my next contest.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Schwarzkopf sounds “wrong.” 
Grümmer for me has the most natural voice and delivery. 
Flagstad’s voice, for some reason, sounds too insistent. 
I am surprised by Tebaldi, whose voice suits the music and is very beautiful.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Mine went for Flagstad who had Schwarzkopf for a snack and Grümmer for lunch


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Schwarzkopf is always musically thoughtful and interesting in one way or another, but in this case I grow weary of the way she insistently holds her voice back. Evidently the intention is to sound fey and dreamy, but ultimately it just feels calculated and mannered, and I hear not a character but a singer making an effect. The voice is also, as others have noted, a bit undersized for the part.

Grummer's version is from the complete Kempe recording, and it captures her slightly past her freshest voice but still lovely. I've always thought her timbre suits Elsa perfectly, as it does Weber's Agathe. A little more vocal weight might be ideal, but her natural musicality and fine diction leave me with no major reservations. She simply sounds right - the only singer here who never does anything to draw my attention away from Elsa's dream.

Flagstad's full, rich, mature tone doesn't quite evoke the character of Elsa for me. The part is a bit paradoxical, as are a number of operatic roles in which the character is supposed to be very young but has powerful music to sing, but in this case no great volume of sound is required. As vivalagentenuova points out, this sounds like later Flagstad; the top of the voice no longer has the ease and float the role requires. She also has a habit of attacking notes slightly from below, not enough to constitute a scoop but enough to get my attention. It feels homespun and sentimental.

Tebaldi sounds involved and beautiful, though she can, as usual, get a little hectoring when she gets excited, and her articulations often make me aware that she's from a different stylistic tradition.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I agree with most of what the others have said. Schwarzkopf has the right type of voice for the aria, but she is holding back.

Grummer is wonderful and it's not a surprise that the Kempe recording is considered the classic one of the complete opera.

I'm not really a Flagstad fan and so I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed her version. The voice is wonderful and she delivers the lines with great taste. She also seems more involved than in some of her other recordings.

Grummer wins, but Flagstad comes close.

N.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I listened Grummer, Schwarzkopf, Flagstad and the impact of Flagstad's voice was very much like the impact Nilsson had after hearing Dimitrova and Lindstrom. But instead of a commanding sword of sound, Flagstads sound was this big thing filled with so many colors! I haven't heard her in some time and that voice is a glorious thing!

Grummer sounds just right, very good, but uninspired by anything individual. Schwartzkopf, as always, makes something of the music but I wouldn't have expected her to sound so light. I would have thought she could fill out this music more satisfyingly. And Flagstad is Flagstad. So wonderful to hear her after quite awhile.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> She also has a habit of attacking notes slightly from below, not enough to constitute a scoop but enough to get my attention. It feels homespun and sentimental.


Re Flagstad. I was hearing this too. I think this may have been a habit in her later years as I don't hear it in her earlier stuff. It may just be me but I've always thought she sounds a bit matronly quite often.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Well, the competition is already over, I see, but I'll comment and vote anyway.

The first time I ever heard this aria was in Schwarzkopf's rendition, and it, and the disc it has been taken from, has aways been a favourite of mine. I hear what others are saying about the voice being too light for the role, but I really like her finely nuanced and intelligently thought through interpretation, starting in a dreamlike half voice and then gradually filling out the tone at the arrival of the knight in her dream, singing with increasing confidence as she says he will wear the crown.

On the other hand, Grümmer, though a little past her best, sings with wonderful unaffected simplicity on the Kempe recording and still manages to sound girlish. I've always loved her Elsa too and she is one of the main reasons the Kempe recording is the one I chose for my collection. 

Flagstad, as others have pointed out, sounds too mature and so, in my opinion, does Tebaldi, and though the voice is beautiful, I find her singing a little over-insistent, especially at the arrival of the Knight.

My vote will make no difference now as we are already voting on the ultimate winner, so I'll vote for Schwarzkopf here, knowing I can vote for Grümmer in the final.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well, the competition is already over, I see, but I'll comment and vote anyway.
> 
> The first time I ever heard this aria was in Schwarzkopf's rendition, and it, and the disc it has been taken from, has aways been a favourite of mine. I hear what others are saying about the voice being too light for the role, but I really like her finely nuanced and intelligently thought through interpretation, starting in a dreamlike half voice and then gradually filling out the tone at the arrival of the knight in her dream, singing with increasing confidence as she says he will wear the crown.
> 
> ...


Sorry! I loved what you wrote and I'm glad you enjoyed the contestants. I think it was something you said earlier that influenced the contestants.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sorry! I loved what you wrote and I'm glad you enjoyed the contestants. I think it was something you said earlier that influenced the contestants.


There's one more Eilsabeth I like in this aria. A bit rushed, no doubt becuse of the exigencies of 78 sides, but the voice is so beautiful and so right for this music.


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