# Non-classical music by composers?



## mud (May 17, 2012)

Can you think of any composers of classical music whose works are marketed in more than one genre? Whether they had created separate works for separate genres, or if the same work has appeared in more than one (excluding samples, arrangements, or adaptations by other artists)?


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

Scott Joplin seems to be one, featured in essentially the same number of albums in the categories of classical and jazz (on amazon). Additional genres are listed for him, but I suspect those feature adaptations of his music (besides the soundtracks).

Many of the same albums appear in those top two genres. This might also reflect a categorization based on recording artists, if his music is considered to be jazz by the jazz musicians, and classical by the classical musicians.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Well, according to you, any composer who used atonalism.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Besides *Gershwin*, *Jaroslav Jezek*, an interesting early 20th century composer, wrote jazz hits as well as classical works in a contemporary style, and was genuinely interested and talented in both genres.

*Nikolai Kapustin*´s works, a cross-over of jazz and classical forms.

And a local name here, *Anders Koppel *(left-wing, talented rock band "Savage Rose", as well as instrumental concertos, electronic music etc.). A good deal of releases on Dacapo.

(On the basis of a few of their works, some would perhaps call _Paul McCartney_ and _John Williams_ "classical" composers now too, they have been promoted at least).


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Wilhelm Grosz*.

"Wilhelm Grosz was born in Vienna. He studied music with Franz Schreker and Guido Adler. In 1921 he was appointed conductor of the Mannheim Opera, but returned to Vienna in 1922, where he worked as a pianist and composer. From 1927 he was the artistic manager of the Ultraphone Gramophone company in Berlin. In 1933 he became conductor of the Kammerspiele Theater in Vienna.
Forced to flee his native land because of the Nazi takeover, Grosz resettled in England in 1934. However, he found little interest there for his avant garde musical style. He was able to apply a considerable melodic gift to setting the lyrics of popular songs, some of which became international successes. Most of his most popular titles were written with lyricist Jimmy Kennedy: "Harbour Lights", "Red Sails in the Sunset", "When Budapest Was Young", and "Isle of Capri".
Grosz's classical compositions include three operas, two ballets, incidental music for three plays, scores for a number of films, orchestral works, a Symphonic Dance for piano and orchestra, chamber music, piano pieces and songs."

I have a Decca CD (Entartete Musik series) of his work.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

aleazk said:


> Well, according to you, any composer who used atonalism.


I consider it to be another genre (not that I suppose it is marketed that way), although I know that some of those composers have produced works of classical music, as opposed to their atonal pieces.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I think this idea brings up the silly arbitrariness of "genres" in music. Is a George Gershwin song "pop" or "jazz" instead of classical? Why? Is Rhapsody in Blue a jazz or classical piece? Are Leonard Bernstein's operettas classical? Why or why not?


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> I think this idea brings up the silly arbitrariness of "genres" in music. Is a George Gershwin song "pop" or "jazz" instead of classical? Why? Is Rhapsody in Blue a jazz or classical piece? Are Leonard Bernstein's operettas classical? Why or why not?


I would not say it is arbitrary, rather it is often eclectic.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

a few more:
*Kurt Weill*, *Manuel Ponce*, *Pablo Sorozobal*.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> a few more:
> *Kurt Weill*, *Manuel Ponce*, *Pablo Sorozobal*.


Which genres are they occupying?


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Personally, I feel that certain forms are somewhat borderline classical. Marches, for instance. Not the kind of marches you find in the Eroica or in the Leningrad, of course. But something like J. Strauss I's Radetzky March. The pacifist in me can only look at this as some nasty piece of militaristic junk.

Even certain dance forms, like the minuet and the waltz, can at times strike me as para-classical. Perhaps it's the gebrauchsmusik aspect of them. Of course most composers trancended these dance forms and stripped them of all of their practical usability.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

mud said:


> Which genres are they occupying?


Weill: heavy-weight classical works in the early period, followed by popular songs / musicals

Ponce: Classical works & popular songs ("Estrelita") etc.

Sorozobal: Classical works (Symphonic Variations, Guernica etc. f. orchestra), popular songs & zarzuelas.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Gerswhin is the most famous but not necessarily the best. As usual, I have to mention Alec Wilder, one of my very favorite musicians. He wrote a lot of chamber music but he's also the author of standards like I'll be around, Moon and sand. And other songs like Be a child, Blackberry winter, A long night, Walk pretty, Lovers and losers, That's my girl, While we're young, It's so peaceful in the country, The starlighter, Who can i turn to, The winter of my discontent, Trouble is a man and many others.


























Vernon Duke is another, he composed classical music as Dukelsky but as Duke he's well known for pieces like Autumn in New York, April in Paris, I can't get started and other beautiful pieces like Word without music

















Jerome Moross is a classical composer but his most famous piece is the amazing and dreamy Lazy Afternoon 





Kurt Weill composed among the others a little masterpiece like september song









Leonard Bernstein like Weill or Duke needs no introduction





Michael Mantler is a composer who did The Hapless child, a prog album in the seventies with some of the most famous jazz musicians





David Bedford is another classical composer who did some prog stuff, usually with Mike Oldfield but he collaborated also with Kevin Ayers on his first great album


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Someone on this forum once suggested the songs of people like Schubert and Schumann, which are just singer and piano accompaniment, aren't really classical. I'm not sure if I agree but it is an interesting idea to restrict classical based on form and use. Classical became such a bloated term, spreading backwards and forwards from the classical era and including something like 95% of all known music until the start of the recording era. Why should the piano sheets of the Schumanns be more art than the ones of Stephen Foster.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> * He was able to apply a considerable melodic gift to setting the lyrics of popular songs, some of which became international successes. Most of his most popular titles were written with lyricist Jimmy Kennedy: "Harbour Lights", "Red Sails in the Sunset", "When Budapest Was Young", and "Isle of Capri".
> *


*

Wow, I had no idea he was a classical composer as well. The thing you learn around here.

Erik Satie was equally competent as a classical and a popular composer - popular in terms of cafe-concert songs. They're still marketed as classical, but really, they're not.

Frank Zappa's music is marketed in different genres.*


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

A recent example not yet mentioned:

John Zorn (1953).

His work can end up in the contemporary classical bin, as well as jazz.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

What about John Adams? 

Nixon in China = opera
I Was Looking at the Ceiling = pop musical


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