# How thoroughly should I learn counterpoint



## ScipioAfricanus

I've just embarked on my study of counterpoint. I am at 2nd species, with gradus parnassum as my text, while practicing using work sheets provided by http://www.tc.umn.edu/~ston0235/pdf/fux_workbook_0.1.pdf

After completing gradus parnassum and the work sheets, what other counterpoint text book and worksheets should I tackle, or is gradus parnassum sufficient?

thanks.


----------



## ptr

When I read composition and music theory at University we used Kent Kennan's Counterpoint & Counterpoint Workbook, very thorough I thought, but I was not that ambitious in my Counterpoint studies (Never had any ambitions to compose )...

/ptr


----------



## ScipioAfricanus

thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## Ramako

I did Fux and as a result I have a working experiential knowledge of voice-leading.

However that has only allowed me to start knocking on the door of 'counterpoint'.


----------



## Kazaman

If you're very serious about continuing to study counterpoint, you'll want to find a composition teacher.


----------



## StevenOBrien

http://www.harmonybuilder.com/ - You might find this software helpful to you.


----------



## PetrB

Whether it is strictly counterpoint or not, every college level music major (at least in any worthwhile university music department or conservatory) _must_ take the following, and these the minimum requirement in the States (European and other country's institutions might have even higher standards / demands).

One semester of modal counterpoint (ala Fux, or that period) 
One semester of 18th century counterpoint, ala Bach - this where you at least compose a free two-oart invention in the harmonic style of that era.

Ear-training (without which any theory or counterpoint studies are useless) for nearly all four years of undergrad.
The most salient point -- the final exam in ear training has a four part chorale dictation. Ergo, you should be able, at least slowly, to follow, write, and track four voices.

Your counterpoint study should, I think, go up to handling three voices, modal or tonal is not really the point. The ability, the mind and ear - training, (the mode of thinking connected to the ear) are the point.

Leaving you with this maxim I heard oft-repeated in school:
*"Good counterpoint is good harmony. Good harmony is good counterpoint."*

I strongly second the suggestion that after only a little bit of self-teaching, you seek out an instructor.


----------



## ScipioAfricanus

thanks PetrB, that greatly helps. So I should finish the Fux, move on to baroque counter point in writing two part invention, then top it off with ear training.


----------



## Kazaman

ScipioAfricanus said:


> thanks PetrB, that greatly helps. So I should finish the Fux, move on to baroque counter point in writing two part invention, then top it off with ear training.


Ear training should be done simultaneously with your other studies.


----------



## PetrB

Kazaman said:


> Ear training should be done simultaneously with your other studies.


YES! No "Topping Off" but ear-training simultaneous and concurrent with the theory studies.


----------



## SottoVoce

Brahms's First Maxim on Composition: 1. When you study music, the most important thing to learn is Strict Counterpoint.

I'm sure he has some idea what he's talking about, so I would say rather extensively


----------



## paulc

After reading Alfred Mann's The Study of Counterpoint you could also read his other book, The Study of Fugue. It contains the rest of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum, the part devoted to imitative counterpoint and fugue.

Personally, after working through at least 250+ exercises from the first book I found them quite dull, lol. Once you start the second book your effort pays off and your study becomes more interesting. Aside from the fundamentals you retain, a number of the restrictions imposed in the first book can be ignored and your writing starts to sound less like bland exercises and more like real music.


----------



## Praeludium

What do you mean by counterpoint ?

I have two teachers who have studied at Paris National Conservatory in the last 15 yeas, one analysis (on the top of organ and other things at Lyon national conservatory) and the other harmony/counterpoint : neither of them did species counterpoint.

So it's up to you, I guess. Studying the works Bach wrote so that they'd be studied sounds like a good idea. Inventions & Sinfonias, WTC and Art of the Fugue.
Actually, when you think about it, studying extensively music from any master contrapuntist whatever period it's from sounds like a good idea... Now it must take some time...


----------

