# Handels oratorios



## manueelster (Feb 7, 2013)

Can you recommend a Handel oratorio besides Messiah? Even more, can you recommend other composers oratorios?


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

My favorites from Handel are Judas Maccabeus and Israel in Egypt. 

Bach's Passions, Christmas, Easter and Ascension oratorios are all masterpieces of course. The Easter and Ascension ones are much shorter than the others if you're just looking for a quickie.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

manueelster said:


> Can you recommend a Handel oratorio besides Messiah? Even more, can you recommend other composers oratorios?


_La resurrezione_ is good


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Try Solomon with Gardiner. Terrific!


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I give a very strong recommendation to Athalia as sung by Joan Sutherland in the Hogwood/Academy of Ancient Music set on the Decca label. A total Handel masterpiece brilliantly performed!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I love Esther.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

They are all good! I am slowly working through them with great pleasure - so far I'd say Semele is my favourite. If you like his oratorios then you will almost certainly enjoy his opera. Oh, and don't forget to have a listen to Purcell's semi-opera...


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## ssdei (Aug 17, 2013)

*A good question, the right direction!*

I also tend to say they are all good and it's worth paying proper attention to studying them, including:

Ottone; Semele; Almira; Passion; Hercules's Choirs; Acis and Galatea; Acis, Galatea and Polifem; Ariodante; Of Joy, Sadness, Wisdom; Esther; Susanna and others.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Other oratarios: Mendelssohn's Elijah and Paulus; Haydn's Creation; Liszt's Christus.

Telemann and CPE Bach both did oratarios on the same text titled The Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus; it's interesting comparing their takes on the subject.


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

Samson, Saul, Jephta, Hercules.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Handel's last oratorio, Jephtha is a masterpiece. One of his best!


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't care about Händel but I'll recommend Haydn, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Dvorak, Liszt, Franck, Schmidt.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

La Resurrezione, Esther, Acis & Galatea.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

manueelster said:


> Can you recommend a Handel oratorio besides Messiah? Even more, can you recommend other composers oratorios?[/QUOTE
> 
> Haydn's the Creation is fantastic!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Handel is one of the greatest composers of all times. His oratorios and operas were hallmark for 18th century great composers like Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. I was listening to the oratorio _Solomon_ and that was wonderful.


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## LOLWUT (Oct 12, 2016)

Nothing can compare to the Creation and St. Matthew.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

My favourite from Handel:Judas Maccabeus with Janowitz.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Esther and Solomon are worthy Handel Oratorios.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This is a good one:


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

-Solomon 
-Il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno
-Semele


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Another vote for Acis and Galatea to above recommendations.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Razumovskymas said:


> -Solomon
> -Il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno
> -Semele


Excellent choices. _Semele_ is actually an English opera although historically labelled as an oratorio.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Excellent choices. _Semele_ is actually an English opera although historically labelled as an oratorio.


There's such a fine line between those two expressions, oratorio / opera with Handel .


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> Excellent choices. _Semele_ is actually an English opera although historically labelled as an oratorio.


yeah I know!

I knew someone would make that remark 

Just a test to see who are the real Händel-fans


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## StDior (May 28, 2015)

The most pleasant latest surprise and discovery for me was Caldara’s Maddalena ai piedi di Cristo oratorio, which I found in the TC Pre-1700 project. I recommend it for a try.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

[error] delelte please.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Pugg said:


> There's such a fine line between those two expressions, oratorio / opera with Handel .


Not really, the definition is clear. A drama based on religious episodes taken from the bible is an oratorio. This applies to all of the Handel oratorio except _Semele._ Handel tried unsuccessfully to originally present it "after the manner of an oratorio" (hint hint "marketing" .... lol) but the story was based on Greek mythology so it's an opera as numerous others were also based on classical mythology. The key difference, unique in opera's history was that it was for an English audience and one of the world's first English operas. _Semele_ has a secular text and didn't go down very well because it was presented during Lent when audiences were used to religious themes from the bible during Lent.

Edit: _Semele_ is also one of the greatest English operas ever composed (i.e with an English text). Fact.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

StDior said:


> The most pleasant latest surprise and discovery for me was Caldara's Maddalena ai piedi di Cristo oratorio, which I found in the TC Pre-1700 project. I recommend it for a try.


No Handel though.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Not really, the definition is clear. A drama based on religious episodes taken from the bible is an oratorio. This applies to all of the Handel oratorio except _Semele._ Handel tried unsuccessfully to originally present it "after the manner of an oratorio" (hint hint "marketing" .... lol) but the story was based on Greek mythology so it's an opera as numerous others were also based on classical mythology. The key difference, unique in opera's history was that it was for an English audience and one of the world's first English operas. _Semele_ has a secular text and didn't go down very well because it was presented during Lent when audiences were used to religious themes from the bible during Lent.
> 
> Edit: _Semele_ is also one of the greatest English operas ever composed (i.e with an English text). Fact.


How do you classify Athalia then if I you don't mind me asking?


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> Not really, the definition is clear. A drama based on religious episodes taken from the bible is an oratorio. This applies to all of the Handel oratorio except _Semele._ Handel tried unsuccessfully to originally present it "after the manner of an oratorio" (hint hint "marketing" .... lol) but the story was based on Greek mythology so it's an opera as numerous others were also based on classical mythology. The key difference, unique in opera's history was that it was for an English audience and one of the world's first English operas. _Semele_ has a secular text and didn't go down very well because it was presented during Lent when audiences were used to religious themes from the bible during Lent.
> 
> Edit: _Semele_ is also one of the greatest English operas ever composed (i.e with an English text). Fact.


I didn't think an oratorio had to come from the Bible, nor even be religious. Some of Handel's were based on Greek/Roman mythology. But then sacred Baroque music gets a little murky and is also a fine line for me. You also have Bach's cantatas that also fall under sacred music. But I believe that format is intended to be performed as part of church service and not as drama for public entertainment.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

I think Handel's works (opera/oratorio) share one thing in common independent of their libretti source material - _both_ were intended for the theatre. Bach wrote his cantatas and passions for Lutheran church congregations - as opposed to audiences.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Yes that's right. I think we're saying the same thing.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> I didn't think an oratorio had to come from the Bible, nor even be religious. Some of Handel's were based on Greek/Roman mythology. But then sacred Baroque music gets a little murky and is also a fine line for me. You also have Bach's cantatas that also fall under sacred music. But I believe that format is intended to be performed as part of church service and not as drama for public entertainment.


None of Handel's oratorios were based on Greek/Roman/Classical mythology. _Semele_ was, which I argued it is an opera. It was also considered as an opera by his more astute contemporary supporters. Needless to say, numerous Baroque operas and many of those by Handel were based on Greek/Roman/Classical mythology.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> None of Handel's oratorios were based on Greek/Roman/Classical mythology. _Semele_ was, which I argued it is an opera. It was also considered as an opera by his more astute contemporary supporters. Needless to say, numerous Baroque operas and many of those by Handel were based on Greek/Roman/Classical mythology.


Unless I'm mistaken, The Choice of Hercules is considered to be a one act oratorio based on Roman mythology.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

It's all definition and semantics. The music is gold.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> It's all definition and semantics. The music is gold.


Very true......


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> Very true......


You seem to be a fellow Handelian.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

ArtMusic said:


> You seem to be a fellow Handelian.


Absolutely. That's why I follow you so closely.  Not that many of us.


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

I am a thoroughly convinced and devoted Handelian. I suspect the problem lies in the fact that unless you love vocal and choral music, you can only chip away at the surface his vast output - most of which was indeed was either opera and oratorio (some extremely notable instrumental music not withstanding of course).


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The problem I have with Handel Oratorios "live" is that the singers just stand there and sing.

This may have been fine in Handel's day, but is a turnoff today.

Dullsville.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The problem I have with Handel Oratorios "live" is that the singers just stand there and sing.
> 
> This may have been fine in Handel's day, but is a turnoff today.
> 
> Dullsville.


Yes somewhat true. But unlike opera, religious oratorios didn't emphasise movement and gestures as church-like respect for the sacred theme. The other counterpoint is that symphony orchestra members remain seated yet the music is usually pretty absorbing and exciting.

I saw Simon Rattle conducting the Berlin Philharmonic of the St. Matthew Passion (Digital Concert Hall) not long ago as a dramatized stage performance. Lots of movement and roaming around on the stage, but it all seemed out of place and strained to me.

But you make a good point.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> The problem I have with Handel Oratorios "live" is that the singers just stand there and sing.
> 
> This may have been fine in Handel's day, but is a turnoff today.
> 
> Dullsville.


So don't get it on DVD, just listen on CD.


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## Resurrexit (Apr 1, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> But you make a good point.


It is? I'm not sure why it's anymore of a problem than it is when watching a performance of Beethoven's 9th, or Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Mahler's 8th, Britten's War Requiem, etc. But ok.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Resurrexit said:


> It is? I'm not sure why it's anymore of a problem than it is when watching a performance of Beethoven's 9th, or Bach's St. Matthew Passion, Mahler's 8th, Britten's War Requiem, etc. But ok.


Relay this over to HP rather than me! I just try to look for compromise.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> Relay this over to HP rather than me! I just try to look for compromise.


It's okay. I will allow you to take the blow!!! :lol::lol::lol:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> So don't get it on DVD, just listen on CD.


Very valid point Florestan.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes! Semele is an opera, not an oratorio. It was done by the MET about 10 years ago with Nelson conducting and it was terrific!!

One of Handel's greatest scores!!!


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