# American symphonies



## tgtr0660

Hi, this is my first thread in this forum. I've been a classical music lover since I was a kid, and I've loved the symphonic form more than any other one, but until now I've been quite unfamiliar with symphonies by American composers. With the exception of Ives' third, I really haven't heard much and I'm just starting with several purchases that I just did, including Piston, Schuman, Harris, and a few more. Can you tell me your favorite american symphonies?


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## Guest

Well, Ives wrote three others. At least one of those is not to be missed. (#4)

Sessions wrote a bunch, all pretty good. 

Roger Reynolds wrote two that I know of. Those might be my favorite American symphonies.

Robert Ashley wrote one. But really, for the most part, American composers have not spent all that much time with the symphony. Some of the greatest American composers haven't written even one. It's done some in Europe, still, but even there, it's dwindling.

Copland did several. The early ones are pretty consistently good. The one that uses "Fanfare for the Common Man" isn't at the top of my list, but several others here will put it near the top of theirs, I'm sure.

(I almost said "same for David Diamond" when I realized you had asked for our favorites, not our least favorites. Whew. Just about blew it, there. Why, I don't even know Diamond's symphonies, so can hardly have any opinion about them.)

Let's see, anyone else have some nice symphonies? OK, that's it for me, then. Reynolds and Sessions would be my favorites. Of people you didn't mention, that is.


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## Weston

Fanfare for the Common Man is fantastic, but I agree Copeland's Symphony No. 3 that incorporates it is merely okay. 

I would rank Howard Hanson as way up there for symphonies. I only have the No. 1 "Nordic," but I find it highly enjoyable.


If we can count Alan Hovhaness as American, he wrote several hundred a couple of which I've heard and enjoy.

I understand William Grant Still wrote some symphonies and I would dearly love to hear them. I enjoy his chamber and piano works a lot. Has anyone heard one of them?


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## Romantic Geek

Amy Beach's Symphony is pretty decent. Very Brahmsian (but alas...American by association to the composer.)

I hear that David Diamond's Symphonies are ones that are must listens, but I haven't personally gotten to them yet.


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## Polednice

Elenor Remick Warren composed a choral symphony called _The Legend of King Arthur_ - something I listened to for its content rather than its geographical affiliation. Still, it's a good piece (not brilliant) - very Romantic in style - though the fact that it sounds like a mini-opera probably means it's not quite what you're looking for...


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## Aramis

If you liked Ives' third, what about his second?


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## joen_cph

Rochberg and Cowell must also be mentioned. Am just beginning to
explore the field of American composers a bit more in depth. Irving 
Fine wrote a rather serious one as well, Haieff seems to be an empty 
epigone of Stravinsky (really), Robert Ward apparently has some moments 
of inspiration, in spite of a conservative style. But Sessions and Rochberg 
are important to the genre, they wrote serious and ambitious works & 
had something to say. I guess there are at least 100 different American 
symphonies that have been recorded (Hovhaness´ constitutes a big part 
of the cake, you know), most of them unknown here in Europe. Some of 
them decidedly only of local interest due to epigone- or unmemorable light-
entertainment-content. But it is an interesting subject, which will probably be 
explored further in the future and find its rightful place.


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## Fsharpmajor

My favourite is Daugherty's Metropolis Symphony, ever since I got this CD:

*http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12480*


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## shsherm

I would like to add a few to the list and these include Charles Ives and his teacher who did not appreciate his music, George Whitefield Chadwick. Leonard Bernstein wrote symphonies as well but certainly not ones as traditional as most composers. John Corigliano shoud also be considered.


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## tgtr0660

Fsharpmajor said:


> My favourite is Daugherty's Metropolis Symphony, ever since I got this CD:
> 
> *http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12480*


Curiously, I just bought that work in the local store. I'm usually not a big fan of this kind of warholesque mixtures of pop culture and academic art, but the reviews and comments were rather good, and I want to listen what this guy did. Besides, I like the Man of Steel...


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## jurianbai

My only knowledgeable American composer is Samuel Barber, but from wiki, he was only composed one one movement symphony. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_in_One_Movement_(Barber)

Not much known about other American. Some big names like Phillip Glass and Elliot Carter should had a symphony.


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## Guest

Barber wrote two symphonies. The second's not all that well known, but there it is. I'm looking at my CD of it right now. Andrew Schenck and the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra on Stradivari Classics. And it's mentioned in the Wikipedia article, too. (Go to the main entry, though.)

And yes, Glass and Carter have both written things they've called symphonies. Glass has eight so far. Carter has two, the symphony nr. 1 and the symphony of three orchestras.


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## schwartzy

Weston said:


> Fanfare for the Common Man is fantastic, but I agree Copeland's Symphony No. 3 that incorporates it is merely okay.


I agree Weston, the fanfare is great - probably the most famous of the 20th century? But I never understood why some poeple say Copland's Third Symphony is the greatest American one there is! Take out that Fanfare, and would it get performed so frequently?



Weston said:


> If we can count Alan Hovhaness as American, he wrote several hundred a couple of which I've heard and enjoy.


I can't see why Alan Hovhaness shouldn't be counted as American. He was certainly born in America, raised in Boston, and apparently spoke only English. I gather only one of his parents was an immigrant.

There are indeed a few dozen Hovhaness symphonies actually. Some I've heard sound very American to my ears. and not just the band ones on Naxos. Like other Americans (Henry Cowell and Lou Harrison), he had a forward-looking "world view" of music - a very American artistic spirit of the age.


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## Fsharpmajor

tgtr0660 said:


> Curiously, I just bought that work in the local store. I'm usually not a big fan of this kind of warholesque mixtures of pop culture and academic art, but the reviews and comments were rather good, and I want to listen what this guy did. Besides, I like the Man of Steel...


It doesn't sound anything like a John Williams soundtrack. It also doesn't take itself all that seriously, and it sounds pleasingly American. Sort of like a cross between Stravinsky and Copland.


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## TWhite

I'm very fond of Copland's Third Symphony, and yes, it does stand very well on its own without the "Fanfare" that begins and ends the fourth movement. The second movement is particularly intriguing, a really fine Scherzo, and the first and third movements have that lovely 'open' feel of much of Copland's best music. 

I like Roy Harris' Third, also, it has been both over and under-rated, depending on what year and what critics, but it has terrific 'drive' to it. 

One that shouldn't be overlooked is Howard Hanson's First, the "Nordic" symphony. There are some extremely expressive things going on in it, and the last movement has a remarkable and tragic 'romantic' impetus. It's basically very lyric, so the drama of the finale almost comes as a shock. 

Samuel Barber's two symphonies are quite good, IMO. But then I'm a real fan of "Neo-Romanticism", and Barber is able to be 'contemporary' and 'romantic' at the same time. And they're beautifully orchestrated, IMO. 

And the Brahmsian influence aside, Amy Beach's "Gaelic" Symphony has some really solid music in it. 

Generally, I HATE Charles Ives, but the Fourth Symphony really makes you sit up and listen. Intriguing as all get-out.

Tom


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## Sid James

Haven't heard many American symphonies, but from what I've heard so far, I like Hovhaness (esp. No. 22 'City of Light;' No. 50 'Mount St. Helens'), Diamond (No. 8, which I read uses serial techniques but in a tonal way), and Bernstein (No. 3 'Kaddish,' for narrator, soprano, chorus & orchestra).

What I heard from Barber didn't grab me, & I haven't heard symphonies from Copland (except the _Fanfare_), Piston, Schuman, Cowell, etc. I would be very interested in hearing Carter's symphonies, especially the one for 3 orchestras...


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## handlebar

Oh where do I start?!

The symphonies of Diamond,Sessions,Creston,Hovhaness,Copland,Barber,Robert Ward,Ned Rorem,Elliot Carter,Walter Piston,Amy Beach,William Schuman and so many more.

If I HAD to choose only one,I could not. I would name Piston,Creston,Diamond and Barber as the favourites.

Jim


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## schwartzy

I have never gotten around to David Diamond, always meaning to. 

Which is the best symphony to start with? Or maybe I should do the sensible thing and start at No1, to better understand his symphonic journey?


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## handlebar

I would say the 1st and 2nd,which are well done on a Naxos CD (or if you find a used Delos CD).
The symphonies get better as they go along too. That's what is so appealing about DD.

Jim


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## maestro267

Then there's Philip Glass, who (up to now) has written eight symphonies (1993-2005); at the moment, my favourite is probably No. 2.


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## ScipioAfricanus

run far from American composers except for John Williams.


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## maestro267

^

Why is that?


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## handlebar

Yes, tell us why. JW seems to recycle everyone else's works so in effect we ARE hearing the other American composers.


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## ScipioAfricanus

maestro267 said:


> ^
> 
> Why is that?


in their quest to be original and to write purely American music, they forgot to write music that is enjoyable.

John Williams writes music strictly to be understood, to convey what he wants to convey and to be musically enjoyable. Check out his score for Schindler's List, and the Darth Vader theme.


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## afterpostjack

I like Jerry Goldsmith more than JW, mostly for his input into the music of Star Trek (essentially the only movie soundtracks that I listen to on a fairly regular basis). But most film music consists of just cliches recycled again and again, to my perception.
But, like Andre, I like Hovhaness' symphonies 22, 50, and also 19, which was used in Carl Sagan's "cosmos". I'm going to have to explore more of his music later on.


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## Guest

I like the Barber symphonies; Hovhaness' symphony no. 2 (Mysterious Mountain) is really good and I'm still learning about his music. Also, Amy Beach's Gaelic Symphony is quite good as well.


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## Earthling

*Copland's Third Symphony *is an absolute must (which, _contra_ ScipioAfricanus, is very enjoyable, and quite moving). It is closer to his populist pieces (_Appalachian Spring, Billy the Kid_) but hewn of tougher stuff. His *second symphony *(the so-called "short symphony") is good too, and still further removed from his more dissonant earlier works. I haven't heard Copland's *first symphony*.

*William Schuman's Symphony No. 8 *(for string orchestra) is lovely. Its a shame Schuman seems largely forgotten these days...


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## Earthling

While not a symphony, technically, I'd like to mention two large orchestral works by Steve Reich from the 80s: *Three Movements for Orchestra *and also *The Four Sections*. Michael Tilson Thomas did recordings of both and are considerably different from his earlier "phase" works from the 60s and 70s. They are, in a sense, symphonies.


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## Poppin' Fresh

Earthling said:


> While not a symphony, technically, I'd like to mention two large orchestral works by Steve Reich from the 80s: *Three Movements for Orchestra *and also *The Four Sections*. Michael Tilson Thomas did recordings of both and are considerably different from his earlier "phase" works from the 60s and 70s. They are, in a sense, symphonies.


Cool, I'll have to check those out. I'm a big fan of his phase works but don't have much else from him.


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## Vaneyes

Hovhaness No. 50 (Mt. St. Helens) is my favorite. Barber's would probably come next, though I'm not thrilled with them. Copland's pre-30's work showed great promise. Alas, he took the wrong road.


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## Huilunsoittaja

I think Barber's 2nd Symphony is quite good, expresses very unusual emotions at times, things that can't be explained.

Ives' 2nd Symphony is also very good, particularly the 3rd movement, but all is good except for the last note, which is a joke.


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## Falstaft

ScipioAfricanus said:


> John Williams writes music strictly to be understood, to convey what he wants to convey and to be musically enjoyable.


In all honesty, if you can locate a recording of Williams' _Sinfonietta_, it's a composition well-worth discovering. Some really virtuosic third-stream jazz influences there that outdo anything from Schuller.

For my money, Ives' 4th is the most impressive American symphony I've heard yet. I'm also exploring all the Hanson symphonies (I only knew the _"Romantic"_ until recently, which, for what it is, is delicious), and like what I'm hearing a lot.

I'd also count John Coolidge Adams as an American symphonist, with his _Harmonielehre_ and _Naive and Sentimental Music_ being symphonies in all but name.

I'm interested in getting into Roy Harris -- any recommendations which of his syms to start with?


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## SuperTonic

Barber's 1st Symphony and Hanson's 2nd, also know as the Romantic Symphony immediately come to mind. William Schuman wrote some good ones too.
If you are looking for something more recent, I find John Corigliano's 1st Symphony to be very moving. It was written in memory of people he knew who died of AIDS.


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## schwartzy

Nuukeer said:


> But, like Andre, I like Hovhaness' symphonies 22, 50, and also 19, which was used in Carl Sagan's "cosmos". I'm going to have to explore more of his music later on.


Well Nuukker, if you like those *Hovhaness *symphonies you really *MUST *check out his most famous one, the Hovhaness Mysterious Mountain symphony. This is such a beautiful work - one of our greatest American symphonies, with a little of the mystic quality of Englishman Vaughan Williams.

You may also like the visionary Lou *Harrison *2nd Symphony. These are two symphonies that I am proud to own on CD.


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## PetrB

Roy Harris ~ Symphony No. 11





I think the Ives Fourth Symphony a masterpiece, and have urged it upon several European musician friends without any further comment. Each of them after hearing it, unprompted, said, "This is a masterpiece."

Here is Carter's A Symphony of Three Orchestras, imo, a beautiful piece.





Irving Fine ~ Symphony





I think too, unless you are hide-bound hungry for the one particular format, already stretched every which way by precedent European and American composers, that it might please some to know of this:
Arthur Berger ~ Ideas of Order





Walter Piston certainly knew his way around the format
Symphony No. 7




Though I most prefer his Concerto for String Quartet, wind instruments and percussion (concerto being a variant / extension of symphonic form) -- written, if it need be known, while the composer was under pretty amazing circumstances of duress.









I also strongly second the recommendation of the music of George Rochberg, both the serial and post-serial works are well worthwhile... and recommend, too, his Violin Concerto.


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## ptr

PetrB said:


> I think the Ives Fourth Symphony a masterpiece, and have urged it upon several European musician friends without any further comment. Each of them after hearing it, unprompted, said, "This is a masterpiece."


I'm European, It is a masterpiece! I've heard it twice conducted by Peter Eötvös in Gothenburg with the choir sitting stealth in the audience, and that is such a brilliant effect when a large group around You suddenly starts singing!

The best American Symphony bar none IMHO! 

/ptr


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## grimmfo

A number of worthy choices.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned
William Schuman's Third Symphony
or Randall Thompson's Symphonies 2 & 3

FG


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## campy

Nobody's mentioned Randall Thompson's 2nd yet. I think it's great.

(Oops. Nobody except the poster right before me.  )


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## SilenceIsGolden

After a few listens I find Ive's 4th symphony to be very intriguing, although overall I don't know that I _love_ it. I think his 2nd symphony is absolutely gorgeous though.


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## Neo Romanza

My favorite American symphony is William Schuman's 3rd (I actually like all of his symphonies). There's something that's so powerful about this symphony and yet at the same time there's an underlying darkness to the music as the slow sections will reveal. Truly an exhilarating monument of sound.


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## drpraetorus

Might I also mention Louis M. Gottschalk? The first American international music star. He wrote two symphonies. "A Night in the Tropics" and "Montevideo". Of the two, I prefer "A Night in the Tropics"


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## chalkpie

ptr said:


> I'm European, It is a masterpiece! I've heard it twice conducted by Peter Eötvös in Gothenburg with the choir sitting stealth in the audience, and that is such a brilliant effect when a large group around You suddenly starts singing!
> 
> The best American Symphony bar none IMHO!
> 
> /ptr


Spot on, mate! Ives Fourth is the best! And if you truly include his Holidays Symphony as such, it is nearly as amazing.

Also, a SEVERELY overlooked and under-appreciated American symphonist is William Schuman. There is some genius lurking behind those notes. If any of you are fans of the American prog band called Thinking Plague (amazing band, BTW), brainchild Mike Johnson's favorite composer is Schuman.

All three of Copland's are very different and are must-own's IMO. The first is pretty sinister with the organ.

edit: I forgot to mention Elliott Carter's Symphony of Three Orchestras. I was driving home from a Mexican restaurant a few years back, heard this incredible music on the radio, and sat in my driveway until it was over and the DJ announced the piece and composer. I ran into the house and looked on my shelf and .....voila......I owned the damned thing! Listened to it 2 more times that night with headphones. Love it to this very day.


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## elgar's ghost

I like Hindemith's Symphony in B-flat for Concert Band and the 'Pittsburgh' Symphony, both from the 1950s - I'm including them as the composer was actually an American citizen by then.

I also like the three by Rorem and Bernstein's first two (I have the 3rd entitled 'Kaddish' but have only listened to it once or twice).


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## Mahlerian

chalkpie said:


> edit: I forgot to mention Elliott Carter's Symphony of Three Orchestras. I was driving home from a Mexican restaurant a few years back, heard this incredible music on the radio, and sat in my driveway until it was over and the DJ announced the piece and composer. I ran into the house and looked on my shelf and .....voila......I owned the damned thing! Listened to it 2 more times that night with headphones. Love it to this very day.


There's a radio station that would play Elliott Carter? I'm impressed!


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## techniquest

Of the Hovhaness symphonies, I find No.11 "All Men are Brothers" to be really worth listening to. I have it on vinyl (Unicorn), but I don't know if it ever made it to CD - shame if it didn't.


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## JLTNJUSA1963

Good afternoon,

I borrowed two CDs from my local library on Wednesday of two of William Grant Still's (1895-1978) symphonies, Weston. This is in response to your January 31, 2010 post, so I may be really late. Both discs are performed by the Detroit Symphony Orchestra conducted by Neeme Jarvi. Chandos CHAN 9154 pairs Still's Symphony 1 (Afro-American) with Duke Ellington's (1899-1974) Suite from "The River", orchestrated by Ron Collier. Chandos CHAN 9226 pairs Still's Symphony 2 (Song of a New Race) with both William Levi Dawson's (1899-1990) Negro Folk Symphony and the Largo from Ellington's Harlem (orchestrated by Luther Henderson).

Jim


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## arpeggio

techniquest said:


> Of the Hovhaness symphonies, I find No.11 "All Men are Brothers" to be really worth listening to. I have it on vinyl (Unicorn), but I don't know if it ever made it to CD - shame if it didn't.


Yes it has: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5597&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=111882


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## PetrB

arpeggio said:


> Yes it has: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5597&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=111882


If any are a symphonic wind ensemble fan, Hovhaness' Symphony No. 4 is for winds (and percussion.)


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## arpeggio

*Hovhaness Symphonies for Band*

Following are two cd's that are devoted to the band/wind ensemble symphonies of Hovhaness:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?ordertag=Comprecom5597-9463&album_id=9463

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5597&name_role1=1&label_id=19&bcorder=61&comp_id=36871


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## TrevBus

*american symphony*



some guy said:


> Well, Ives wrote three others. At least one of those is not to be missed. (#4)
> 
> Sessions wrote a bunch, all pretty good.
> 
> Roger Reynolds wrote two that I know of. Those might be my favorite American symphonies.
> 
> Robert Ashley wrote one. But really, for the most part, American composers have not spent all that much time with the symphony. Some of the greatest American composers haven't written even one. It's done some in Europe, still, but even there, it's dwindling.
> 
> Copland did several. The early ones are pretty consistently good. The one that uses "Fanfare for the Common Man" isn't at the top of my list, but several others here will put it near the top of theirs, I'm sure.
> 
> (I almost said "same for David Diamond" when I realized you had asked for our favorites, not our least favorites. Whew. Just about blew it, there. Why, I don't even know Diamond's symphonies, so can hardly have any opinion about them.)
> 
> Let's see, anyone else have some nice symphonies? OK, that's it for me, then. Reynolds and Sessions would be my favorites. Of people you didn't mention, that is.
> 
> [/QUOTE As my music taste have evolved in last 50 or so years, I find enjoying American music, one of my great pleasures, esp. the Symphony. Other than Copland, I didn't listen to any. Then I discovered Barber, Harris, Piston(still my favorite american composer)Bernstein and many, many others. From there I started listing to "serious compositions", from serial, atonel and some avant-garde(very little, haven"t evolved that far yet). That led me to a composer no one has mentioned yet, Wallingford Riegger. Try listining, if you haven't already, to sym. #4. There is a very good recording on the First Edition label. Others that haven't been listed: John Alden Carpenter, Edward Collins(a great discovery for me), my favorite late 19th century to mid 20th composer, Frederick Converse(more tone poems than Symphony) and more up-to-date, Richard Danielpour. OK. I have gone on long enough and have barely scratched the surface of American Composers and the symphony. BTW, am new to this site, so I hope I haven't bored anyone yet. I tend to go on, like right now, so goodbye.


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## maestro267

I bought my 2nd disc of music by Michael Daugherty recently, containing the three-movement work from 2001 "Philadelphia Stories". In the liner notes, he calls the work his "Third Symphony". Assuming the Metropolis Symphony (1988-93) is his First, then what is his Second?


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## PetrB

Falstaft said:


> In all honesty, if you can locate a recording of Williams' _Sinfonietta_, it's a composition well-worth discovering. Some really virtuosic third-stream jazz influences there that outdo anything from Schuller.
> 
> For my money, Ives' 4th is the most impressive American symphony I've heard yet. I'm also exploring all the Hanson symphonies (I only knew the _"Romantic"_ until recently, which, for what it is, is delicious), and like what I'm hearing a lot.
> 
> I'd also count John Coolidge Adams as an American symphonist, with his _Harmonielehre_ and _Naive and Sentimental Music_ being symphonies in all but name.
> 
> I'm interested in getting into Roy Harris -- any recommendations which of his syms to start with?


I'm interested in his Symphony No. 11, only the first part of which can be auditioned on Youtube:





His third is considered 'American modern mid-century Iconic' but it may sound a bit dated or corny in both themes and gestures, depending upon your listening habits and what is cumulatively in your memory of 'all that.'


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## maestro267

I've heard Harris' 3rd, but it doesn't give that sense of Americanism to me. What America is it presenting to me? Copland has dibs on the "open plains" America, and Gershwin has the glamourous New York side covered. It's a pleasant enough work, though.


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## QuietGuy

> I understand William Grant Still wrote some symphonies and I would dearly love to hear them. I enjoy his chamber and piano works a lot. Has anyone heard one of them?


William Grant Still's music is enjoyable to listen to. Naxos has some of his music. He's on youtube also.


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## mtmailey

Alot of music from AMERICA ARE NOT THAT GREAT to me GERSHWIN & JOPLIN are great though.


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## Wood

AMERICA < Mahler?


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## PetrB

Wood said:


> AMERICA < Mahler?


Uhhh, nope. Also not symphonies Dvorak wrote during his American visit, etc.


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## nightscape

PISTON

Especially No. 2, 4 and 6.


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## Alfacharger

Elliot Carter's early 1st Symphony has that nice mixture of Copland and Piston. Carter's later works can be a slog in my opinion.


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## Alfacharger

maestro267 said:


> I bought my 2nd disc of music by Michael Daugherty recently, containing the three-movement work from 2001 "Philadelphia Stories". In the liner notes, he calls the work his "Third Symphony". Assuming the Metropolis Symphony (1988-93) is his First, then what is his Second?


It's the "MotorCity Triptych" of 2000.

"Michael Daugherty is one of the most performed and commissioned American composers of his generation. Daugherty came to international attention in 1995 when his Metropolis Symphony (1988-93), a tribute to the Superman comics, was performed at Carnegie Hall by conductor David Zinman and the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, and subsequently recorded for Argo/Decca. Other large orchestral works include UFO (1999), a percussion concerto commissioned and premiered by Evelyn Glennie and the National Symphony Orchestra conducted by Leonard Slatkin, and Fire and Blood (2003), a violin concerto commissioned and premiered by the Detroit Symphony Orchestra conducted by conductor Neeme Järvi. The Detroit Symphony also commissioned and premiered Daugherty's second symphony, MotorCity Triptych (2000). His third symphony, Philadelphia Stories (2001), was commissioned and premiered by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by David Zinman."

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/livingmu...standmiddlename&sortColumn2=date&value0=Opera


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## maestro267

Ah. Thank you! I shall look forward to getting that work in my collection.


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## arpeggio

*Michael Daugherty Kick*

I have recently gone on a Michael Daugherty kick and have purchase five albums which contain his music. I have not yet submitted a post about them in the purchased music thread.

Links to about them:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=2738&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=74758

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=2738&name_role1=1&comp_id=197044&bcorder=15&name_id=104663&name_role=4

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=2738&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=383682

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=2738&name_role1=1&comp_id=361768&bcorder=15&name_id=154008&name_role=4

I am listening to this one as I am typing this:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=2738&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=464218


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## techniquest

> I've heard Harris' 3rd, but it doesn't give that sense of Americanism to me. What America is it presenting to me? Copland has dibs on the "open plains" America, and Gershwin has the glamourous New York side covered. It's a pleasant enough work, though.


But then there's a lot more to America than open plains and New York. Maybe it's speaking of Americanism beyond the geographical and the glamorous? It certainly works for me - and it could only be an American symphony.


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## chalkpie




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## hpowders

I like the Henry Brant reworking of Ives Concord Piano Sonata as the Ives/Brant Concord Symphony; especially as performed by the SF Symphony under Michael Tilson Thomas.


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## mtmailey

View attachment 38793
AMY BEACH symphony in e minor comes to mind,HANSON symphony 6 also.


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## chalkpie

hpowders said:


> I like the Henry Brant reworking of Ives Concord Piano Sonata as the Ives/Brant Concord Symphony; especially as performed by the SF Symphony under Michael Tilson Thomas.


Absofruitly.

It really shines a different light on the detailed inner workings of this masterpiece, and what a brave undertaking as well! I think he did a tremendous job overall and still managed to capture Ives spirit.

If you dig this , you should also have a look at the Emerson Concerto. This was an unfinished work that was realized/reconstructed by Ives scholar David Porter. A must for any Ives fanatic. It's available on Naxos along with an outstanding recording of Ives First by the world's leading Ives genius - James Sinclair.


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## Kilgore Trout

chalkpie said:


> It really shines a different light on the detailed inner workings of this masterpiece, and what a brave undertaking as well! I think he did a tremendous job overall and still managed to capture Ives spirit.


I like it, but it doesn't really sound like an Ives orchestration. And it works better as a piano piece.



chalkpie said:


> If you dig this , you should also have a look at the Emerson Concerto. This was an unfinished work that was realized/reconstructed by Ives scholar David Porter. A must for any Ives fanatic. It's available on Naxos along with an outstanding recording of Ives First by the world's leading Ives genius - James Sinclair.


The Emerson Concerto is quite a mess... it's a curiosity more than anything.
James Sinclair is an important scholar and does a very good job overall, but as a conductor ? I would like to hear him with better orchestras. The orchestras on the Naxos recordings do a sincere and industrious job but are far from excellent.


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## hpowders

chalkpie said:


> Absofruitly.
> 
> It really shines a different light on the detailed inner workings of this masterpiece, and what a brave undertaking as well! I think he did a tremendous job overall and still managed to capture Ives spirit.
> 
> If you dig this , you should also have a look at the Emerson Concerto. This was an unfinished work that was realized/reconstructed by Ives scholar David Porter. A must for any Ives fanatic. It's available on Naxos along with an outstanding recording of Ives First by the world's leading Ives genius - James Sinclair.


Never heard it. Now on my Ives Bucket List.


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## hpowders

chalkpie said:


> Absofruitly.
> 
> It really shines a different light on the detailed inner workings of this masterpiece, and what a brave undertaking as well! I think he did a tremendous job overall and still managed to capture Ives spirit.
> 
> If you dig this , you should also have a look at the Emerson Concerto. This was an unfinished work that was realized/reconstructed by Ives scholar David Porter. A must for any Ives fanatic. It's available on Naxos along with an outstanding recording of Ives First by the world's leading Ives genius - James Sinclair.


I bought the Ives/Brant on reading rave reviews. After 3-4 listenings, I was hooked and then decided, knowing how the original is usually better than anyone else's toying with it, I bought the Ives Concord Sonata with Easley Blackwood performing and then there was no turning back. The original Ives sonata is so much better than the Ives/Brant, it isn't even funny.

Now, 4 CDs later of the Ives Concord Sonata, I know the work thoroughly and have to say that first CD by Easley Blackwood is the best performance of it. What a beautifully proportioned performance and one can hear every note of all the complex voicing. Terrific!

Do I love Ives? You bet your BMW I do!!!


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## chalkpie

Kilgore Trout said:


> I like it, but it doesn't really sound like an Ives orchestration. And it works better as a piano piece.
> 
> The Emerson Concerto is quite a mess... it's a curiosity more than anything.
> James Sinclair is an important scholar and does a very good job overall, but as a conductor ? I would like to hear him with better orchestras. The orchestras on the Naxos recordings do a sincere and industrious job but are far from excellent.


Hey man - sorry the Brant doesn't connect with you. That's cool. I am such a huge Concord junkie that hearing any form of that piece in a different variation is icing for me. I'm actually glad it doesn't sound like a genuine Ives, because it isn't. It's the same with the Universe Symphony. No one really knows what he intended but himself (although he said future composers can interpret it different ways), but as a composition I love it.

As for Sinclair , yeah it would be VERY nice if he had a world class orchestra at his disposal, but sadly he doesn't. Yet, I LOVE his recordings (for the most part). His Orch New England disc on Koch is Kick *** X 3,000 for me, and his 3rd symphony disc on Naxos is one of my favorite Ives discs EVER. As you can tell <----- I also love Tilson Thomas' recordings of Ives, and his 4th/Chicago is still the absolute best to my ears.


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## chalkpie

hpowders said:


> I bought the Ives/Brant on reading rave reviews. After 3-4 listenings, I was hooked and then decided, knowing how the original is usually better than anyone else's toying with it, I bought the Ives Concord Sonata with Easley Blackwood performing and then there was no turning back. The original Ives sonata is so much better than the Ives/Brant, it isn't even funny.
> 
> Now, 4 CDs later of the Ives Concord Sonata, I know the work thoroughly and have to say that first CD by Easley Blackwood is the best performance of it. What a beautifully proportioned performance and one can hear every note of all the complex voicing. Terrific!
> 
> Do I love Ives? You bet your BMW I do!!!


Right on man - The Concord is one of the best pieces ever written for piano to my ears, and to a bunch of others too. Each movement is like its own universe, yet there is a consistency within the whole piece. The use of Beethoven as motifs - the best.

What other versions do you have? You should check out Marc-Andre Hamelin's second recording on Hyperion - it may be my favorite if I was forced to do such a terrible thing. His first recording is also great.

The Brant is fun, and a true heartfelt tribute to this masterpiece. The point is not to replace the Concord, but to honor Ives' genius by placing this masterpiece in a different light. I only listen to it about once a year, but I always enjoy it.

Maybe slightly off-topic, but if you have a chance to hear Psalm 90, you should. It's Top 10 Ives for me - another masterpiece. If you can find it, check out the version by The Dale Warland Singers (on The Gothic label). Yeah that sounds strange, but it's a fabulous version and worth the price of admission for that disc.


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## Alypius

chalkpie said:


> Right on man - The Concord is one of the best pieces ever written for piano to my ears, and to a bunch of others too. Each movement is like its own universe, yet there is a consistency within the whole piece. The use of Beethoven as motifs - the best.
> 
> What other versions do you have? You should check out Marc-Andre Hamelin's second recording on Hyperion - it may be my favorite if I was forced to do such a terrible thing. His first recording is also great.


The other year I was privileged to see Marc-Andre Hamelin perform Ives' Concord live. I was on the 4th or 5th row, with birdeye view of his hands. One of the most extraordinary concerts I have ever witnessed.


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## hpowders

I have the Hamelin. The Blackwood sounds more convincing to these ears. For example, in playing the third movement of each performance, I find Blackwood more beautiful. Also his performance as a whole is so beautifully proportioned from first note to last. Very impressive, IMHO.


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## Celloman

I don't think anyone has mentioned this: _Symphony No. 4 "Requiem"_ by Howard Hanson

Easily his best symphony. It was his personal favorite of his own works, and for good reason.


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## atmplayspiano

drpraetorus said:


> Might I also mention Louis M. Gottschalk? The first American international music star. He wrote two symphonies. "A Night in the Tropics" and "Montevideo". Of the two, I prefer "A Night in the Tropics"


I've listened to " A Night in the Tropics " and enjoyed it quite a lot. The second movement is delicious.


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## Antiquarian

Celloman said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned this: _Symphony No. 4 "Requiem"_ by Howard Hanson
> 
> Easily his best symphony. It was his personal favorite of his own works, and for good reason.


I agree, his best symphony was No.4, but his most widely heard was probably No.2 "Romantic" because Ridley Scott used it w/o permission for the Alien Soundtrack. Regardless, I like No.2.


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## Radames

Antiquarian said:


> I agree, his best symphony was No.4, but his most widely heard was probably No.2 "Romantic" because Ridley Scott used it w/o permission for the Alien Soundtrack. Regardless, I like No.2.


#2 is the only one I have heard in concert. By a community orchestra, but they played pretty well. I have the complete Swartz recordings. They are all good works.

I only saw one person above mention Robert Ward. I only heard of him about a year ago. He should definitely be heard more often. The only recording I have is by German, Japanese and Iceland orchestras!









I see this is listed on arkiv:


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## cjvinthechair

Some reasonably modern Americans, with symphonies among their works, whose music I enjoy:

Daniel Asia, Nicolas Flagello, Jeff Manookian, Richard Yardumian. 
Think someone mentioned Richard Danielpour, & is it utter sacrilege to include an excellent symphonist for wind band, David Maslanka ?


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## arpeggio

*Maslanka*



cjvinthechair said:


> is it utter sacrilege to include an excellent symphonist for wind band, David Maslanka ?


I do it all of the time.

Are you familiar with the You Tube of the United States Navy Band performing the Maslanka _Fourth Symphony_?


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## cjvinthechair

arpeggio said:


> I do it all of the time.
> 
> Are you familiar with the You Tube of the United States Navy Band performing the Maslanka _Fourth Symphony_?


Yes indeed, thanks; know his 7th & 8th too - not east/cheap to get his CDs in England ! So.... !


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## BRHiler

Maslanka's 4th is easily my favorite of his symphonies. Did you know that he wrote it in one movement because he was annoyed with conductors only performing single movements of his symphonies?

Some of my favorite modern American Symphonists:

*Christopher Rouse* 4 symphonies 1 and 2 are on CD and #3 is on I-tunes from it's NY Phil premiere. #4 is just recently completed from what I've read

*John Corigliano * 3 symphonies All on CD.

*Adolphus Hailstork * 3 symphonies (that I know of). #2 and #3 are available on Naxos CD. I love #3

*John Harbison* 3 symphonies (again, that I know of). All are available on CD


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## Mahlerian

BRHiler said:


> *John Harbison* 3 symphonies (again, that I know of). All are available on CD


He's written six, although I don't think no. 5 and 6 are available on disc. They are available on the Boston Symphony's website for digital download, if you're interested. They both feature vocals, 5 throughout and 6 in the brief opening movement.


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## BRHiler

Thanks Mahlerian! I will be checking that out immediately


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## cjvinthechair

BRHiler said:


> Thanks Mahlerian! I will be checking that out immediately


Yes, indeed - resource I'd no idea of; will be heading there directly. Thank you !


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