# Vienna New Year's concert



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

I was watching the new year's concert on TV conducted by Gustavo Dudamel. I'm struck at how many women are in the orchestra. I thought the VPO was very resistant towards allowing women among it's ranks from what I have read. Your thoughts?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Times have changed. Every major orchestra has a significant number of female musicians.

Twenty five years ago, the NY Philharmonic had many female musicians.

I had a crush on one, a double bass player, no less!


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Let's count the women. I see a female harpist.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

h1478971 said:


> I was watching the new year's concert on TV conducted by Gustavo Dudamel. I'm struck at how many women are in the orchestra. I thought the VPO was very resistant towards allowing women among it's ranks from what I have read. Your thoughts?


What you see is not necessarily what you get. The Vienna Philharmonic is recruited from the Vienna State Opera Orchestra where the musicians have to have served for at least 3 years before even being considered to join the VPO. Having said that, the VPO often brings in additional and/or substitute players from the opera orchestra as needed. Given all the political noise over women in the orchestra, you can bet that they will have brought in a number of women for this internationally visible concert.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2017)

TxllxT said:


> Let's count the women. I see a female harpist.


I'm pretty sure I saw some women playing in the string section, and possibly winds as well... I must confess though, I am a bit puzzled by the fact that this topic still recurs from time to time in discussions like this. For one, as male members are still the overwhelming majority of the orchestra (Wikipedia gives a 6% women's participation rate for 2012) and it may be a symptom of some remaining bias, I'd rather think it's just a product of years of advantage that men had over women when it comes to playing intruments profesionally. It has been already 20 years (I checked) since the VPO changed their policies and I hope that time can bring the participation closer to a fair value.

Moving to the concert itself, it was lovely! All those captivating intersections with dancers and beautiful places. The Spanish Riding School (die Spanische Hofreitschule), the Clock Museum (das Uhrenmuseum), and the gardens were all a delight to look at. The way the Radetzky-Marsch turned out was probably my favourite closing to the Neujahrskonzert so far.

That said, the programme could use some more liveliness in the middle, at least in my view. I admit it may be just my nature and age that are asking for more 'oomph' as I noticed in the past as well as yesterday that I tend to get a bit 'fatigued' towards the mid-pause. Good thing there's been some visible diversification of the programme beyond the Strausses which is a very good thing indeed. I'd like to see some programmatic innovation with sound that sets people ready for a whole new year instead of putting them in a state of mild sedation. It may come off as uninformed and ignorant, but it feels a bit like it's all just the same sound picked from a few dozen of similarily-sounding marches, waltzes and polkas every year. The programme people, the orchestra and future conductors should look at smart ways of keeping it fresh without hurting the tradition. I'm sure there's a proper way to do it, someone just needs to find it.

Now, back to looking for viable ways of getting the tickets each year...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Tired of the whole Vienna New Years Concert thing.

When Carlos Kleiber led them, they were worth watching.

Now, same old music, same old audience members there to be seen, with bored, joyless expressions on their faces.

No thanks. Count me out!


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

It was very good, but I could do without the Tik-Tak Polka at the end. But Europeans always like these fun pieces as the finale for celebration concerts. I think it's usually the Rakoczy March or similar, like our Sousa Stars and Stripes Forever. 

I agree, these New Years programs can get a little tiresome as the same thing year after year. But Dudamel and the performance here were excellent in my opinion. And it's one of the few times they show a classical concert on American TV these days. At least for that.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I'd rather watch Andre Rieu. And I _never _watch Andre Rieu.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Times have changed. Every major orchestra has a significant number of female musicians.
> 
> Twenty five years ago, the NY Philharmonic had many female musicians.
> *
> I had a crush on one, a double bass player, no less!*


*

*

There is a story that Klemperer apparently had a crush on a flame haired cellist who played for Karajan's Philharmonia. He pursued her across Europe attending rehearsals so he could view her!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I expected some consternation still, so loosely-counted seven women in the orchestra yesterday.

VPO players listing is linked. Nine women with Membership in the Association of the Vienna Philharmonic?

https://www.wienerphilharmoniker.at/orchestra/members

Even with Dudamel conducting, there should be more discussion about the merits of yesterday's concert.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Vaneyes said:


> I expected some consternation still, so loosely-counted seven women in the orchestra yesterday.
> 
> VPO players listing is linked. Nine women with Membership in the Association of the Vienna Philharmonic?
> 
> ...


The hype surrounding the concert was greater then the actual performance, I've seen better.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Pugg said:


> The hype surrounding the concert was greater then the actual performance, I've seen better.


Are you canceling the DVD order?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> Are you canceling the DVD order?


Spooky.......you knowing this, just the L.P this year.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> [/B]
> 
> There is a story that Klemperer apparently had a crush on a flame haired cellist who played for Karajan's Philharmonia. He pursued her across Europe attending rehearsals so he could view her!


I left the double bass player in the double bass section because she looked at her music more than she looked at me.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

MarkW said:


> I'd rather watch Andre Rieu. And I _never _watch Andre Rieu.


What is the difference between a Vienna New Year concert and a Andre Rieu concerts? Is it the players or the conductor? Is it the number of women or the quality of the music? Can anyone argue that Vienna New Year concert is 'true classical music' and Andre Rieu is only a 'crossover'?

Well, I think we have different perceptions among us, these perceptions become our reality.

Happy New Year!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> What is the difference between a Vienna New Year concert and a Andre Rieu concerts? Is it the players or the conductor? Is it the number of women or the quality of the music? Can anyone argue that Vienna New Year concert is 'true classical music' and Andre Rieu is only a 'crossover'?
> 
> Well, I think we have different perceptions among us, these perceptions become our reality.
> 
> Happy New Year!


Of course a Vienna New Years Concert is preferable, even when the conductor is Zubin Mehta. I Rieu the day when André came on the scene.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

I have the same preference. However, Vienna New Year concert happens only once a year to an exclusive group of people. Rieu concerts are now a global phenomena and appearing to the masses. Maybe that is the difference.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> I have the same preference. However, Vienna New Year concert happens only once a year to an exclusive group of people. Rieu concerts are now a global phenomena and appearing to the masses. Maybe that is the difference.


If it exposes more people to music, even saccharine, semi-classical music, and a few of them like it enough to pursue it further, then Rieu is a good thing.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

pcnog11 said:


> I have the same preference. However, Vienna New Year concert happens only once a year to an exclusive group of people. Rieu concerts are now a global phenomena and appearing to the masses. Maybe that is the difference.


I also see it this way. The Vienna New Years concerts are a once-a-year event that's classical, fun, and not all that serious. After all, it's a one-time happy celebration. The Rieu concerts are year-round on the road events exporting dumbed-down classical to the masses. Maybe that's better than nothing and exposes classical for some, but it doesn't really raise the bar.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Richard8655 said:


> I also see it this way. The Vienna New Years concerts are a once-a-year event that's classical, fun, and not all that serious. After all, it's a one-time happy celebration. The Rieu concerts are year-round on the road events exporting dumbed-down classical to the masses. Maybe that's better than nothing and exposes classical for some, but it doesn't really raise the bar.


Hopefully, those people that are exposed to classical music by Rieu will 'graduate' to become one of us.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2017)

pcnog11 said:


> Hopefully, those people that are exposed to classical music by Rieu will 'graduate' to become one of us.


Hopefully but not likely.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

On the subject of Rieu, I can't help thinking about the Andrew Walsh Ensemble. Those of you who have watched season 3 of _Mozart in the Jungle_ will understand!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Traverso said:


> Hopefully but not likely.


I am sure they don't .


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I called in on someone when the New year's concert was being broadcast and that person was really enjoying it. Leave people alone to enjoy their Johanne Strauss. After all, Brahms did!
Great conductors like Karajan and Klveiber have taken part so it can't be all bad!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> If it exposes more people to music, even saccharine, semi-classical music, and a few of them like it enough to pursue it further, then Rieu is a good thing.


It seems to me that if people like it, that's quite sufficient without further excuse.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I called in on someone when the New year's concert was being broadcast and that person was really enjoying it. Leave people alone to enjoy their Johanne Strauss. After all, Brahms did!
> Great conductors like Karajan and Klveiber have taken part so it can't be all bad!


Do not forget, conductors are only be chosen by the members of the orchestra, so it's more of honour to do it.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I make a tradition of it to watch the last two pieces every year. I enjoy the music and the vibes every time. Somehow this yearly tradition restores a little bit of my faith in civilization.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

We must always remember that for many people the Vienna concert is pretty high brow listening. As classical music lovers we must realise we are a relatively small group. So let's not start criticising those events which open up light classical to a wider audience.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

DavidA said:


> We must always remember that for many people the Vienna concert is pretty high brow listening. As classical music lovers we must realise we are a relatively small group. So let's not start criticising those events which open up light classical to a wider audience.


Good point. I raise the issue of Rieu in a couple of discussions to see how the group response to 'light' classical music. I think we have a mixed bag of opinion. Some individuals are more critical to this issue than others. My standpoint is that Rieu (and his peers) engages a wider audience and hopefully some will become one of us. I am sure some folks in this forum are drawn to classical music from channel like Rieu.

Don't we all want others to become classical lovers?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Richard8655 said:


> I also see it this way. The Vienna New Years concerts are a once-a-year event that's classical, fun, and not all that serious. After all, it's a one-time happy celebration. The Rieu concerts are year-round on the road events exporting dumbed-down classical to the masses. Maybe that's better than nothing and exposes classical for some, but it doesn't really raise the bar.


Maybe I'm just grouchy because I'm another year older. :lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

True Viennese style - a matter of rhythm and timing - is almost impossible for non-Viennese musicians to replicate.To connoisseurs of Viennese light classical music, Andre Rieu is not the genuine article. He is not Viennese and neither is his orchestra. He reorchestrates the music of Strauss, which does not require reorchestration. I'm not aware that he ever plays the music of Josef of Johann, Sr. (except the Radetzky march), or anything but the popular favorites. 

Andre Rieu? No, no, no! A pox on Andre Rieu! Leave him to the grannies who get their "classical music"on PBS.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Viennese music isn't my favourite but watching it on New Years Day on television, was surprised. Beautifully performed and loved Gustavo Dudamel!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Judith said:


> Viennese music isn't my favourite but watching it on New Years Day on television, was surprised. Beautifully performed and loved Gustavo Dudamel!


Not very well received by the critics.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Much as I'm being snarky about Andre Rieu, I have to admit that some of my really early exposures to CM were some 10" 78 RPM singles of Strauss waltzes in my dad's adolescent/college record collection (that included such classics as Benny Goodman playing/singing "Buckle Down Winsaukee")!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MarkW said:


> Much as I'm being snarky about Andre Rieu, I have to admit that some of my really early exposures to CM were some 10" 78 RPM singles of Strauss waltzes in my dad's adolescent/college record collection (that included such classics as Benny Goodman playing/singing "Buckle Down Winsaukee")!


He ( Rieu) started a new yearly event in Holland, " New Years concert for the millions"


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Pugg said:


> He ( Rieu) started a new yearly event in Holland, " New Years concert for the millions"


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## Autocrat (Nov 14, 2014)

I listened to some vile polka for about 2 minutes then turned the TV off. Not my cup of vomit I'm afraid.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Autocrat said:


> I listened to some vile polka for about 2 minutes then turned the TV off. Not my cup of vomit I'm afraid.


If I would feel that way I wouldn't even turn my T.V on.


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