# Some Scarlatti sonatas are so intriguingly bizarre!



## clavichorder

Has anyone ever heard K 394? Give this one a listen all the way through and you'll see what I mean, particularly the section with the weird parallel fifths modulations.

Its in this collection on piano: 



 and on harpsichord here 




Scarlatti sonatas in general do not follow conventional rules of voice leading, and there are so many interesting things that sound great yet appear strange on paper. This is perhaps the weirdest sonata I've come across, anyone have any others?


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## hpowders

Scarlatti sonatas can be quirky and spiky. No doubt about it. He was one cool composer!!!


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## Muse Wanderer

I just got Scott Ross complete Scarlatti sonatas and so far it has been a pleasure to listen to. 
At first I tought ... ehh there are just too many of them, but then the more the better as I found out with Bach's cantatas.
Now I have to check out K394 and hear what the buzz is all about!


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## clavichorder

Muse Wanderer said:


> I just got Scot Ross complete Scarlatti sonatas and so far it has been a pleasure to listen to.
> At first I tought ... ehh there are just too many of them, but then the more the better as I found out with Bach's cantatas.
> Now I have to check out K394 and hear what the buzz is all about!


The Scott Ross recording is good, and you'll find that right after k 394 is a sonata that its paired with, k 395 in E major, which proves to be just as weird in spots.

Actually, I'm finding that a lot of those sonatas in that section of the K numbering are strange...


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## Ukko

The Ks were an attempt at chronological order. Maybe just the way his hair laid at that time?

There are parallels between D. Scarlatti and Bartók. Stuff that gave them non-standard ways to go. I'm very glad they were looking for it.


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## worov

After reading your thread, I just listened to this sonata on my LP record (Maria Tipo). I don't think it's strange at all. Maybe because I have listened to the LP record a hundred times.


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## Novelette

I adore Scarlatti's sonatas. I've been eying a few of the complete sets for a few months now. I'll finally have to get it over with an acquire one of them


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## Mandryka

clavichorder said:


> Has anyone ever heard K 394? Give this one a listen all the way through and you'll see what I mean, particularly the section with the weird parallel fifths modulations.
> 
> Its in this collection on piano:
> 
> 
> 
> and on harpsichord here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scarlatti sonatas in general do not follow conventional rules of voice leading, and there are so many interesting things that sound great yet appear strange on paper. This is perhaps the weirdest sonata I've come across, anyone have any others?


Yes. You should try to hear the CD by Marco Farolfi which is part of the set of sonatas on Stradivarius, he collected together some sonatas which were particularly inventive.

What do you people think of that performance of 394 by Vartolo on the youtube link? Too noble? Too sad?

I thought Belder plays 394 particularly movingly.


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## Mandryka

worov said:


> After reading your thread, I just listened to this sonata on my LP record (Maria Tipo). I don't think it's strange at all. Maybe because I have listened to the LP record a hundred times.


That's the Tipo effect. On piano I thought Fou Ts'Ong was more interesting than Tipo.


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## mikey

Pletnev's 2CD's are definitely worth a listen. Pretty sure it's not what Scarlatti had in mind but it's amazingly colourful pianism!


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## Ukko

mikey said:


> Pletnev's 2CD's are definitely worth a listen. Pretty sure it's not what Scarlatti had in mind but it's amazingly colourful pianism!


Yep. Plus it all still works as music. Pogorelich recorded some that are at least as nonstandard, and also work. Horowitz was more circumspect... or was he?


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## hpowders

My recommended Scarlatti sonatas, only on harpsichord, of course:

Pierre Hantaï, for virtuosic fireworks like you wouldn't believe.

Kenneth Weiss for beautiful tone production. The Artur Rubinstein of the harpsichord!


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## Jos

I thought that I had found my interpreter for Scarlatti: Christian Zacharias, and now this!!  What a find, thnx for bringing her to my/our attention, Clavichorder !

Cheers,
Jos


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## milanrehak




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## zvioliny

Ukko said:


> There are parallels between D. Scarlatti and Bartók. Stuff that gave them non-standard ways to go. I'm very glad they were looking for it.


Scarlatti is one of my favorites, but I don't like Bartok at all.... I think that it's because when Scarlatti was alive composing, there weren't actual standards. Bartok from what I know purposely was non-standard.


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## Piwikiwi

zvioliny said:


> Scarlatti is one of my favorites, but I don't like Bartok at all.... I think that it's because when Scarlatti was alive composing, there weren't actual standards. Bartok *from what I know *purposely was non-standard.


I think that's your problem right there.


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## PetrB

Many a Scarlatti sonata has material which is -- by the composer _using his ear (vs. "theory")_ -- for coloration; accompanying chords nearing tone-clusters as percussive effect in a dance-like movement, as well as here and there other 'eccentricities' which in our current time seem more than a little odd, certainly 'adventurous,' and well outside the practice of his era.

_To that jibe he wrote the same piece 500 times, phooey, he did not; there is a huge variety to be found throughout those 500 plus sonatas!_

Horowitz, in his prime, may later best be remembered for some of his Scarlatti renditions -- one variety of nonpareil Scarlatti 

Ralph Kirkpatrick (of the K. numberings for Scarlatti) did record a good number of them on harpsichord (a now 'vintage' 2 LP set) I believe those in his two-volume printed collection of selected sonatas. They are a delight, and I think 'archival' as far as 'must-haves' when it comes to Scarlatti.

Some people, snookered by a late 19th century writer, believe that 'sonata' means only the form as used by Mozart, with Beethoven as apex and defining the form; of course, the Scarlatti Sonatas are as much sonatas as any later -- i.e. there is not just the classical era format as definition of the form 

ADD:
P.s. I could tell in one moment that Maria Tipo is a fantastic pianist, and in not much less time, that what she brings to Scarlatti (in the way of mannerisms and pedaling) compelled me to very quickly turn it off. I tried her Bach, with the same result.


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## aleazk

PetrB said:


> Many a Scarlatti sonata has material which is -- by the composer _using his ear (vs. "theory"_ -- for coloration; accompanying chords nearing tone-clusters as percussive effect in a dance-like movement, etc.


Ears? what's that? are these 'ears' things relevant to music? I'm skeptic! I will have to consult my theory book!


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## PetrB

aleazk said:


> Ears? what's that? are these 'ears' things relevant to music? I'm skeptic! I will have consult my theory book!


I've heard that if you lay first one ear then the other flat on each page of your music theory books, that there is something to be gained from that.

Of course, there is shredding the pages and eating them to 'get the information in' ... which reminds me of this true story of two American siblings:

Sis had gotten a scholarship to study at l'Université de Paris, Sorbonne, only to find her French wholly inadequate to keep up with the course-work, and poor Sis had a complete nervous breakdown before end-of-semester exams: she had been found in her dorm room tearing out pages of the textbooks... she was eating them.

Post break-down, Sis was sent home. After about six weeks post breakdown, Sis was moping, sitting in a chair all curled up.

Her brother walked by, caught her eye, and asked her, "Eat any good books lately?"


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## maria barbara

I don't see any great mystery in 394 ; it's a beautiful example of fusion of the first and last motives : the second part begins with three such fusions, which is not that unusual...


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## maria barbara

the pairing of the Scarlatti sonatas is an adventurous invention of Kirkpatrick. Today's musicologists do not recognize them.


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## maria barbara

Yes, Bartok has been very much interested in Scarlatti's structural music.


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