# Why am I the only person who liked Symphony no. #39 in E-flat by Mozart?



## obwan

Its Mozart's single greatest symphony and every time i post something about "whats your favorite" symphony yayaya, i'm so disillusioned to see no one else mention it. What gives people? youve never heard of it or something? seriiously if one more person says #41 is his best I think the end is near.


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## Kieran

obwan said:


> Its Mozart's single greatest symphony and every time i post something about "whats your favorite" symphony yayaya, i'm so disillusioned to see no one else mention it. What gives people? youve never heard of it or something? seriiously if one more person says #41 is his best I think the end is near.


I love #39, I have to say, and it gets unfairly ranked as the warm-up act to #'s 40 and 41, as if he was flexing his muscle for more serious matters. It's a great symphony in it own right and though I think #41 _is_ his best, I also think #39 is possibly as great, if this makes sense. He aims for something different each time, and succeeds equally perfectly in each of the last three symphs, and maybe because #41 is in C-major, it just sounds grander.

By the way, the 8-12 week period where he composed these three symphs includes other works too and is just another example of his seemingly endless capacity for writing so much great music, with such speed...


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## daveh

I love No. 39 as well. If forced to choose, I would probably say that I prefer No. 40 by the slightest margin, but I definitely think No. 39 is one of his best.

And while others might not always specifically point it out like they do 40 and 41, I don't think there are many on these boards that would disagree that it is some of his finest work.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

No. 39???? :lol:
No. 41 IS THE BEST!!!!!!


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## Mahlerian

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> No. 39???? :lol:
> No. 41 IS THE BEST!!!!!!


I think you just carelessly initiated the apocalypse...


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## Kieran

Mahlerian said:


> I think you just carelessly initiated the apocalypse...


This is how the world ends - not with a whimper, but a post...


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## mmsbls

I think it's true that most people view either 40 or 41 as Mozart's greatest symphony (41, of course, being the correct answer), but in my experience all 3 late symphonies (39-41) are considered great. Personally I would add 38 to the mix. I don't know that I've ever heard someone who likes Mozart say that 39 is not a wonderful piece of music. So even if it's not highest on most people's lists, it certainly is a strong contender.

@obwan: Just for clarification, do you think that #40 and #41 are great symphonies as well?


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## KenOC

Of Mozart's last three symphonies, sound minds will all agree that #38 is the finest!


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## Weston

But you are NOT the only one who likes No. 39. It is one of the few Mozart pieces I really do enjoy -- especially the minuet. Man I love, love, love that minuet /trio movement. Most people play it way to slowly, but play at the intended speed and it is sublime:





(I wish I knew what the picture of seeds or whatever has to do with it.)

I have championed this work many times in these forums. If Mozart had written all his works more like this, I'd be an intolerable fan.


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## Xaltotun

I prefer the 39 to the 40 - but the 41 wins.


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## Hausmusik

The #39 minuet is one of my favorite movements in all of Mozart. 

Though (conventionally enough) I prefer both #40 and #41 to #39. To my ear, there's nothing in #39--or in any other symphony before Beethoven--to compare with the finales of those symphonies.


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## trazom

They're playing this symphony on the radio as i type this. The minuet is alright, but the andante is my favorite, it's just so beautiful.


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## Novelette

I was always fond of 39. Although I prefer 40 of all of Mozart's last twenty symphonies, 39 has its own charm. But as always, I don't find the minuet so interesting.

You're not alone! :wave:


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## Itullian

i love 36


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## Ramako

I have a fondness for 39, but I do prefer 40... It's a bit like Beethoven's 8th next to 7. The greater drama usually attracts more attention. Still, I have never been able to get into Mozart's other late symphonies (apart from 41 to an extent).


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## poconoron

For me, 39, 40, and 41 reside on an equal plane. I have a tough time choosing between them - so I don't!


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## JCarmel

No 39 was my favourite for most of my life... but I'm a Haffner fan now....No 35, I just love it.


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## trazom

I forgot to mention #38 has been my favorite for a while now. Mozart really outdid himself in the Adagio, and the first movement is also extraordinary. I always feel glad to be alive when listening to this piece.


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## tdc

I do really love no. 39, but no. 38 has always been my favorite Mozart symphony. Since first listening to them many years ago this has never changed. I recently downloaded the score so I can analyze this great work in closer detail.


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## obwan

mmsbls said:


> @obwan: Just for clarification, do you think that #40 and #41 are great symphonies as well?


Yes, I do, I'd rank 40 slightly higher than 41 though, but both are great, esepcially the final movement to #41.
Its just frustrating not to have met a single like minded person who agrees with me that 39 is the best.


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## Mahlerian

obwan said:


> Yes, I do, I'd rank 40 slightly higher than 41 though, but both are great, esepcially the final movement to #41.
> Its just frustrating not to have met a single like minded person who agrees with me that 39 is the best.


It's probably partially related to exposure, partially related to the fact that minor key classical era music attracts more attention (40) and partially because contrapuntal classical era music attracts attention (41).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

JCarmel said:


> No 39 was my favourite for most of my life... but I'm a Haffner fan now....No 35, I just love it.


Yay! Go Haffner! That's my second favourite.


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## Feathers

I'm sure tons of people like 39, but if this is about how much 39 is preferred relative to 40 or 41 (or 31 35 38 or others), then I guess that's a totally different question.


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## StevenOBrien

Kieran said:


> and maybe because #41 is in C-major, it just sounds grander.


I never understood why people think this way (purely in terms of the actual quality of the key itself, I'm aware there are cultural ties to it). E-flat major and B-flat major sound a million times grander to me than C major, which sounds much more pastoral than grand to me.


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## ProudSquire

You are not alone friend, for I am here for you! 

Well, now. I've always admired No.39, it's just great. I can never tire of it.

Edit:

I mean, who could resist that charming finale?! :/


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## PetrB

The Mozart Symphonies from say, No. 35 on are each a monumental masterwork of one sort or another, and many hold them all as great works, each for its own qualities.

Other than perhaps apersonal inclination toward high melodramatics in choice of phrasing, there is just no 'Why am I the only person." about it


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## Olias

I'm a Linz-lover myself.


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## Radames

I think 34 is vastly underrated.


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## ScipioAfricanus

Beethoven stole the main theme of the 39th, and made it into his Eroica


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## ptr

I much prefer the 37th, think it is the most spiritual... Perhaps because it was predominantly written by Little Mikey Haydn... Just kidding, but I still like this symphony!

I don't have a fave Wolfie symphony, they are all entertaining on their own merit, the 40 was probably the first classical music I remember being aware of from my childhood (a greatest hits album that my mom had with mostly James Last and Roger Whittaker), the second was the Dutch band Ekseption's version of Beethoven's fifth, I did not discover the 39th until I was an adult...

/ptr


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## PlaySalieri

obwan said:


> Its Mozart's single greatest symphony and every time i post something about "whats your favorite" symphony yayaya, i'm so disillusioned to see no one else mention it. What gives people? youve never heard of it or something? seriiously if one more person says #41 is his best I think the end is near.


I love it too - I discovered it after knowing very well all the other great M symphonies and I was in tears at the beauty of it. It may be the best - has 4 great well balanced movements - is incredibly unique. Wagner compared it artistically with Beethoven's 7th.


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## PlaySalieri

JCarmel said:


> No 39 was my favourite for most of my life... but I'm a Haffner fan now....No 35, I just love it.


Daaa da da daa daa

seriously?

I also love the haffner - but it come about no 9 in my list of fave M symphonies. I like the story about M writing this sy at breakneck speed - sending to his father - who sent it back some time later and M saying he had forgotten every note and well well well - what a piece of work!


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## PlaySalieri

Radames said:


> I think 34 is vastly underrated.


I wish I could get into 34 - it's one I can't find the usual M inspiration in.


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## PlaySalieri

KenOC said:


> Of Mozart's last three symphonies, sound minds will all agree that #38 is the finest!


The first mvt of 38 is perhaps the greatest symphonic mvt he wrote - but 38 on the whole is let down by having just 3 mvts - and mvts 2 and 3 - fine as they are - are not quite on the level of the 1st mvt.


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## PlaySalieri

Novelette said:


> I was always fond of 39. Although I prefer 40 of all of Mozart's last twenty symphonies, 39 has its own charm. But as always, I don't find the minuet so interesting.
> 
> You're not alone! :wave:


Yes well I love the minuet and trio! The trio is truly sublime!


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## KenOC

stomanek said:


> The first mvt of 38 is perhaps the greatest symphonic mvt he wrote - but 38 on the whole is let down by having just 3 mvts - and mvts 2 and 3 - fine as they are - are not quite on the level of the 1st mvt.


Then I'm fine, since my attention span never stretches beyond the first movement of anything!


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## michael5150

In my opinion the colour and saturation of colour is in the E flat richer than in the G minor and C

The first movement of the prague. The finest mozart symphonic movement. You are a good judge

I think no. 31 is too self consciously trying to impress

In the trio of symphonies 39, 40 and 41 I believe 39 is the best and 41 the worst

I agree with your judgement. 35 is back on form

I believe the linz is better than 39 40 and 41

I think beethoven 1 is greater than mozart 39


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## Lord Lance

Why must we rank everything we get our hands on? Why can't we leave each masterpieces on its own? What morbid desire prevails in the minds of the perverted to disgrace one masterpiece by ranking it "lower" than the other?


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## Pure Fool

Lord Lance said:


> Why must we rank everything we get our hands on? Why can't we leave each masterpieces on its own? What morbid desire prevails in the minds of the perverted to disgrace one masterpiece by ranking it "lower" than the other?


39 is my favorite work by Mozart, especially the Jochum from 1954 with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks.


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## Guest

obwan said:


> i'm so disillusioned to see no one else mention it.


I'm sometimes inspired that I can see the value in something that others can't. Go obwan!


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## Weird Heather

I sometimes wonder why people are so concerned with rankings among a few great pieces of music. Mozart's final three symphonies are among the greatest of their time (and it can be argued that others among his later symphonies are just as good). Does it really matter whether someone considers No. 39 to be better than No. 40 and No. 41, or whether someone prefers one of the others, or whether someone prefers one of the other late symphonies? From this time period, I tend to like stormy minor key works, so I listen to No. 40 more often than I do the other two, but if I step back from my personal taste and try to consider them semi-objectively, I can't argue that No. 40 is better than No. 39 or No. 41. All three are masterpieces, and most of the other late symphonies are also masterpieces. It is a shame that Mozart died so young - he had truly come into his prime, and had he lived longer, he would surely have produced a lot more music at this level or better.

I suppose No. 40 and No. 41 get a bit more attention than No. 39, but this might just be due to habit or convention. Perhaps if No. 39 had an evocative subtitle like No. 41, it would be more popular. Sometimes, an irrelevant detail like a subtitle makes a lot of difference to the general public.

I prefer to enjoy the music rather than try to rank it.


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## Enthusiast

^^^ Harnoncourt joined the three together into one big work (I think he was serious). Anyway, it saves ranking them.


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## Heck148

#39 is one of my favorite Mozart symphonies - the last 6 are quite magnificent, but my gut favorites over the years??
#s 38, 39...

I'm scheduled to perform #39 this fall with a local chamber orchestra...really looking forward to it...it's been many years since a last performed it.


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## Samehada

The 39th symphony is fantastic because it has the same level of quality as 40 and 41, but I can listen to it when I am too tired for the passion of 40 or brightness of 41. And like with so much Mozart, simply divine writing for the winds.


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## Brahmsian Colors

I'm not as big a fan of Mozart's Symphonies as I am of a number of his chamber pieces. Nonetheless, his symphonies 25, 31, 39 and 41 are my current favorites, with the "Jupiter" taking top prize. Oddly, perhaps, I've never much cared for #40.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> No. 39???? :lol:
> No. 41 IS THE BEST!!!!!!


Time's haven't changed. 41 is still the best! 

And I'm waiting for that apocalypse........when's it coming???

However, I did recently watch that Harnoncourt 39-41 megasymphony and I reckon 39 is ******* excellent.


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## PlaySalieri

michael5150 said:


> In my opinion the colour and saturation of colour is in the E flat richer than in the G minor and C
> 
> The first movement of the prague. The finest mozart symphonic movement. You are a good judge
> 
> I think no. 31 is too self consciously trying to impress
> 
> In the trio of symphonies 39, 40 and 41 I believe 39 is the best and 41 the worst
> 
> I agree with your judgement. 35 is back on form
> 
> I believe the linz is better than 39 40 and 41
> 
> *I think beethoven 1 is greater than mozart 39*


and I think Mozart sy 29 is better than Beethoven 1


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## DavidA

I love Mozart's 39th symphony. Can't see why anyone wouldn't.


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