# Pianists: How to write effectively for the piano?



## Webernite

Like a lot of people here, I dabble in composition. But unusually, I don't play the piano (or anything else). I listen to plenty of piano recordings and I understand the basics of piano technique, so I already have a rough idea of how to write for the instrument, but I'd like more detail.

My main concern is to avoid writing music that works well _on paper_ but sounds underwhelming in real-life performance. On a synthesizer or a computer program, a Bach prelude will probably sound better than a Chopin prelude or a Scirabin prelude. But in actual (piano, not harpsichord) performance, the Chopin and Scriabin will sound more effective, because they're more suited to the instrument. Well, the only way I can hear my music played at the moment is using a computer program, and it sounds OK, but I'd like to be able write music with confidence that it will sound OK even when it's being played on a real piano.

To be clear, I'm not asking how to write music that lies well for the hands, although this is a good thread to discuss that too. What I want to know is how to produce a full piano sound (like Chopin, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, as opposed to, say, Bach, Schubert or Haydn). I understand that the most important thing is to exploit the high and low octaves of the piano, rather than staying in the middle octaves, but is there more to it than that? Why is it that Mozart's sonatas, for example, sound more suited to the piano than Bach, even though they both stay in the middle of the keyboard most of the time?

:tiphat:


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## kv466

Hmmm,...got me with the Mozart/Bach question...as far as writing and then hearing a performance, I wouldn't even know what to say as anything I have ever composed has been composed behind the keyboard and not on paper. If this is possible for you I would suggest it more than anything. As far as making things sound more full maybe it's just the use of the pedal and maybe holding some chords longer with the sustain while already beginning new chords before they fade away; constantly coloring and adding texture. Either way,...good luck!


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## Rasa

Here is what I learned in 4 years of harmony/style studies: analyse.


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## emiellucifuge

Get someone you know who plays the piano to go through the music for you?


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## Webernite

emiellucifuge said:


> Get someone you know who plays the piano to go through the music for you?


I can do that from time to time, but I still feel like there must be a few rules of thumb for writing pianistically...


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## Webernite

Rasa said:


> Here is what I learned in 4 years of harmony/style studies: analyse.


I don't get what you're saying here.


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## Rasa

If you want to know how things work, take things that work and analyse them. Chords, positions of chords, disposition of chords, polyphonic writing, small textures, large textures....


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## Rasa

Also, variations are a good start. It will show different treatments of the same-ish subject.


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## Aro

Rasa said:


> If you want to know how things work, take things that work and analyse them. Chords, positions of chords, disposition of chords, polyphonic writing, small textures, large textures....


That is what came to my mind the moment i read your thread. You should get texts from the composers you really enjoy listening to, analyze them and try to "imitate" them in a way. BTW one thing that I have to say is Bach is very different due to his polyphony. To create a more vivid feeling in piano music I would write it in an omophonic way ( not that polyphonic doesn't have feeling), where one hand holds a melody and the other one accompanies. You should also have in mind that in the piano you can play a lot with forte or pianissimo, so you can experiment between those too as well.

P.S. A really nice idea would be to start playing some piano yourself (lol  )
( A P.S. question )-> Are you trying to write solo piano music or piano music that accompanies another instrument?


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## Il_Penseroso

A chronological study over piano technique and the way of composing for this instrument through the periods of time. Choose brilliant samples by the most famous piano composers from different periods of time, or from a same time but different schools (Liszt vs Brahms), then see how they used chords, passages, polyphony, pedale, etc ... try to compose, inspired from what you've discovered from each one : the best way for learning how to compose for piano, but even more, how to compose music in general I think. I'm also a self-taught musician and after all technical matters and discussions, wish you the best.


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## Webernite

Thanks for your suggestions.


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## Webernite

Aro said:


> ( A P.S. question )-> Are you trying to write solo piano music or piano music that accompanies another instrument?


Solo piano, at least at first.


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## rocklandpiano

Many composers use the piano as their compositional tool, even when writing for other instruments (winds, voice, mallet percussion, etc.). 
Of course, you don't have to use piano to write, but if there's one instrument you should know how to play, at least a little, it's the piano. 
You'd be hard pressed to find a credible composer—or musician for that matter—who wouldn't agree with this sentiment. 
This section outlines the most salient elements of the piano together with some suggestions on how to write piano music in a variety of styles.


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## TwoFourPianist

Just remember - a great pianist can play any piece well. 

I know when writing music I try to make my pieces sound as good as possible on the computer. I tweak everything possible to get the right tempo, the right phrasing, the right velocities. Some of this is neccessary for performance, most is not.

In theory, writing for the piano is just like writing for an ensemble. You need to focus on your melodies and your texture - but in a way for only two hands to play. Study pieces from various time periods by various composers to see (or hear) how they accomplish this. Also, don't concern yourself over stretching your notes over the entire length of the piano. As long as it sounds good it is good!


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## laeo222

Dude you are initial stage of understanding the piano if you are in initial stage then you take step and move on with the help of the guitarist which is good and nice indication...


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## Pianoxtreme

Don't try to make everything fit into a certain category or type when you're composing... Some pieces wouldn't sound as good stretched across the entire keyboard, and some wouldn't sound as good if they were played in the middle range. Composing for piano is the same as composing for anything else: you need a melody and a background for it, texture, harmony, and chord progression.

As far as general things to make the piano sound more full, I've found that using arpeggios and octaves tend to make it sound more full. Might I ask what genre your piano compositions are?


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## moody

Pianoxtreme said:


> Don't try to make everything fit into a certain category or type when you're composing... Some pieces wouldn't sound as good stretched across the entire keyboard, and some wouldn't sound as good if they were played in the middle range. Composing for piano is the same as composing for anything else: you need a melody and a background for it, texture, harmony, and chord progression.
> 
> As far as general things to make the piano sound more full, I've found that using arpeggios and octaves tend to make it sound more full. Might I ask what genre your piano compositions are?


He's not around just now ,exams I think.


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## Pianoxtreme

Oh dear, I just realized the thread date on this.


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