# how do I tell a good performance from an ok one?



## purplerain

Like on YouTube ppl are always commenting on'phrasing' or whatever. Does it takes years to distinguish.? Do you need to play an instrument? I'm new to this stuff.


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## Ukko

purplerain said:


> Like on YouTube ppl are always commenting on'phrasing' or whatever. Does it takes years to distinguish.? Do you need to play an instrument? I'm new to this stuff.


It's entirely subjective, unless you are getting paid for your opinion (which then requires some obfuscation).


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## purplerain

I mean but how do people recognize the most minute differences? I would like to see what they see.

I don't just want to skim through it. I've been study music theory to make things more clear.


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## Webernite

People commenting in great detail on Youtube have probably read the sheet music. Can you read music?


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## Webernite

Either way, I wouldn't worry about trying to compete with them. Just listen to music frequently and your listening skills will develop.


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## Guest

Listen to what you like. You will develop your own ear over time as to what you prefer. As with everything else, the more you experience, the more you will develop your own ideas and opinions, which will then draw you in your own direction. As for being able to distinguish minor details, I suspect that requires some training and effort far more involved than merely listening. As someone else said, they are probably reading the score along with listening. 

I would say it comes down to why you want to be able to do this. To show your knowledge to others? To increase your own knowledge for yourself, or because you think it is something you think you ought be able to do? I would discourage you from doing it for any reason other than the second. I greatly enjoy classical music, but can't tell you why I enjoy one performance over another (unless the differences are blatantly obvious) beyond simply saying I just do.


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## Jaws

Here is something that is very basic. You say you have studied music theory, so I am going to assume that you know about the different stresses on beats? People who do bad phrasing or even wrong phrasing play stresses on the wrong beats. An example of this might be in 4/4 time playing the first note loud even if a piece starts on the last beat of the bar. Here in the UK this kind of backwards unmusical phrasing is very common in amateur orchestras. So you may be able to find an example of a UK amateur orchestra on youtube who play like this. If you then compare how a professional group play you will find that the professional group play with the stresses on all of the right beats. The professional group have given a good performance of what the composer wrote. The amateur group have given a bad performance.


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## purplerain

Webernite said:


> Either way, I wouldn't worry about trying to compete with them. Just listen to music frequently and your listening skills will develop.


Say. Off topic. What other music do u enjoy. I like gansta rap. Gfunk
Funk/soul some rnb and jazz. Wonder wat classicalers listen too.

I like what you guys are saying. But shouldn't I be able to tell the great artists from the crappyones ?


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## Webernite

purplerain said:


> Say. Off topic. What other music do u enjoy. I like gansta rap. Gfunk
> Funk/soul some rnb and jazz. Wonder wat classicalers listen too.


I basically only listen to classical, but I can't speak for other people. Jazz is popular with classical-music lovers.


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## purplerain

Do you guys spend the whole day on here. Or are you on and off like I am?


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## Webernite

On and off, of course.


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## Ramako

I wouldn't pay much attention to what anyone on Youtube says.


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## purplerain

I am a weird person ...


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## Ravndal

Dont worry. Most people who comment on youtube have no idea of what they are talking about.


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## Kopachris

purplerain said:


> Do you guys spend the whole day on here. Or are you on and off like I am?


Most of us do have lives outside of this forum, yes. I happen to work graveyard shift at a hotel (during winter, the slow season, I do occasionally pop on the forum at work, though). There are a lot of retired geezers here as well as a lot of college kids, and a few people who are in between.



purplerain said:


> I am a weird person ...


Yes, you are. At least, around here. But that's okay.


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## samurai

@ KC, As one of the "retired geezers" cited by you in your post, I must say that I resemble that remark! :scold:


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## PetrB

Chopin, Etude Opus 10, No. 4
Maurizio Pollini




Valentina Lisitsa




Paul Barton




Matt Riddle





Repeated listening makes for greater familiarity. Concentrated listening, i.e. perhaps track on particular aspect or element, also puts 'all the rest' in focus, makes you more overall conscious of what you are hearing.

Sort'em out


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## Hayze

purplerain said:


> Say. Off topic. What other music do u enjoy. I like gansta rap. Gfunk
> Funk/soul some rnb and jazz. Wonder wat classicalers listen too.
> 
> I like what you guys are saying. But shouldn't I be able to tell the great artists from the crappyones ?


You can't tell.
Generally speaking, if the performer plays the piece clearly, without mistakes, at a reasonable tempo etc, then from there on it's all a matter of interpretation and taste. For example, some would say Gould is a bad performer of Beethoven sonatas, and some would say he's very good.

You have to trust your own ears. You do it better with experience.


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## Ravndal

Meh. Mistakes is allowed. Were only human. Just listen to horowitz, he played a lot of wrong notes. Still good 

Interesting list petrb. Im curious in what he choses.


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## drpraetorus

How do you feel when it's over? Was it worth your time? Did it move you emotionaly? Were you, in some ineffable way, better off than before the performance? The more enthusiastically you can say yes to those questions, the better the performance was.


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## purplerain

Thanks for the suggestions. I will listen to them.


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## Head_case

purplerain said:


> Like on YouTube ppl are always commenting on'phrasing' or whatever. Does it takes years to distinguish.? Do you need to play an instrument? I'm new to this stuff.


All you need is the metaphor, from which musical 'phrasing' is calqued.

It's like this.

1. I'm writing to you. Communicating via the internet.

Whatever is transmitted in communication, relies on what is written.

This much is clear. Right?

____________

2. Now if I was to waffle like a sophist and pretend that there is a fine art to phrasing and the comprehension of phrasing without any attention to the semantic formation of my sentences, thus creating a four line long sentence which passes for a paragraph yet succeeds perhaps in conveying less of an idea that a single sentence could offer, then I would be struggling with the articulation of the ideas which I am trying to communicate.

______________

I'd be surprised if any native English speaker (even second/third language speaker) cannot distinguish between 1). & 2). Phrasing is related to the articulation or the expression of the music. It requires some fluency (as the two sentences does) - not expert knowledge - to recognise the difference.

PS - maybe those who comment on Youtube have too much time


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## Vaneyes

*Obfuscation*. Damn, so early into 2013, and that comes at me.


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## Head_case

Vaneyes said:


> *Obfuscation*. Damn, so early into 2013, and that comes at me.


That's ominous......is it like -

preternatural?


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## Faell

Listen, listen, listen listen! And not only different compositions but the same work performed by other musicians too. Try to explain why you prefer that performance. This is one of the most subject things in listening to music, but try to explain as precise as possible why you like the one performance more than the other.


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