# Neoclassicism



## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

I would have thought there would already be a thread about this - there probably is, but I couldn't find it doing a Google search.

So what do you think of neoclassicism? Are there any composers who experimented with it that you particularly enjoy? While Stravinsky is probably most associated with it, I ask today because I am falling in love with Ravel and particularly adore _Le Tombeau de Couperin_. I also think that the existence of neoclassicism is testament to the fact that old forms and styles needn't be dead as there is still interesting work to be done with them, even if it isn't as 'innovative' as travesties like new complexity.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sorry about the Japanese subtitles. Only complete version I can find of this amazing opera!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Found this version too with better audio:






It is my favourite neoclassical work. I enjoy neoclassicism, I think it was definitley an interesting idea. Manuel de Falla treated it differently to Stravinksy because he thought of the actual _sounds_ rather than the notes and the form. In Master Peter's Puppet Show he instructs the oboist at the beginning to play in such a way to replicate a primitive version of the instrument. His writing certainly has some amazing colourful effects. This opera notably makes use of the harpsichord as part of the orchestra rather than only in recitative as in Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress.


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

I am a fan of the Neoclassical movement. I enjoy the "clean" and direct aspect of it coupled with modern harmony. Paul Hindemith comes to mind, as does Bartok's works from 1936-1945. A lot of composers "tried out" neoclassicism, so we really have to just look at the major composers and you will likely find some works with a neoclassical edge to them.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

etkearne said:


> I am a fan of the Neoclassical movement. I enjoy the "clean" and direct aspect of it coupled with modern harmony. Paul Hindemith comes to mind, as does Bartok's works from 1936-1945. A lot of composers "tried out" neoclassicism, so we really have to just look at the major composers and you will likely find some works with a neoclassical edge to them.


Would you recommend anything specific by Hindemith?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I've been quite enjoying Hindemith's chamber music lately, and he is supposedly neoclassical. Glenn Gould has a fine recording of his sonatas for brass instruments and piano.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I always want to include neo-baroque in this category, but I know that the OP is not fond of that period to which it pays hommage. Still, Ernest Bloch, Bohuslav Martinu, Francis Poulenc and Dmitry Shostakovich are great ones for this. Martinu also commonly does a sort of Neo-Renaissance and his student Alan Hovhaness can sometimes be described that way. 

There are also some composers who do a drier and less colorful sort of "Neo" music than the ones others have mentioned and that I mentioned, sort of in line with Hindemith, though less atonal perhaps. The ones I can think of are Walter Piston and Edmund Rubbra.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Hindemith's music is tonal in that it always (I think) has a tonal centre, but he orders the pitches in the octave around that centre according to the level of dissonance. Ludus Tonalis is a set of fugues in which the key progression follows that system with a base of C, so it goes C, G, F, A, E, Eb, Ab, D, Bb, Db, B, F#, I only mention this because it provides a good outline of his ideas on tonality. He also had a chord hierarchy, but I don't know how that works.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I was dismissive of neo-classicism before in some ways, but quite like it now.

It was* Stravinsky's* longest period, roughly spanning the time between the two world wars. My favourites in that are _Oedipus Rex_, _Violin Concerto_, the _Octet for Winds_, and the _Symphony in Three Movements_.

I've been slowly getting into *Bartok's *string quartets, the 4th and 5th especially go off the influence of Beethoven's late quartets (eg. the suite like and 'arch' layout of movements). Other things like the _Divertimento for Strings_ and_ Music for Strings, percussion and Celesta_ have been favs of mine for ages now.

Other ones I like include:

- *Michael Tippett *- _Concerto for Double String Orchestra ; Fantasia Concertante on a Theme of Corelli _; String Quartets 1 - 3 have elements of neo-classicism too (the 3rd one has no less than three fugues!)

- *Rodrigo *- as far as I know basically stuck to neo-classicism all his long life. Apart from his big hit, _Guitar Concierto de Aranjuez_, I have been listening to other things like his Cello Concerto (_Concierto como un divertimento_, written in the 1980's for Julian Lloyd Webber).

- *Castelnuovo-Tedesco *- another one with a big hit, the _Guitar Concerto #1_, but I've also been enjoying his _24 Caprichos de Goya _for solo guitar. Its on Naxos and I think its amazing, incorporating many things into neo-classicism (one of the pieces even uses serialism in a cheeky way, making fun of it more than anything).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Re: Hindemith. I'm a big fan and would recommend any newcomer to his chamber music to investigate his seven string quartets. Together they constitute one of the finest 20th century string quartet cycles I've heard. The various sonatas for piano and wind instruments are also very appealing - most are short, very accessible and in places quite pithy. For anyone who wants to plunge in nearer the deep end there are the four sonatas for solo viola, but I wouldn't recommend these to a Hindemith newbie unless he/she has a particular interest in works for solo string instruments.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The first may still be the best to my taste: Grieg's Holberg suite.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Some excellent NeoClassical Works:

Shostakovich - Symphony 9
Prokofiev - Symphony 1
Stravinsky - Pulcinella Suite


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

clavichorder said:


> I always want to include neo-baroque in this category, but I know that the OP is not fond of that period to which it pays hommage. Still, Ernest Bloch, Bohuslav Martinu, Francis Poulenc and Dmitry Shostakovich are great ones for this. Martinu also commonly does a sort of Neo-Renaissance and his student Alan Hovhaness can sometimes be described that way.
> 
> There are also some composers who do a drier and less colorful sort of "Neo" music than the ones others have mentioned and that I mentioned, sort of in line with Hindemith, though less atonal perhaps. The ones I can think of are Walter Piston and Edmund Rubbra.


For some strange reason, I think neobaroque is generally considered to be part of the neoclassical label, which is not so much a reference to big-c Classical music as it is to music before the Romantic period in general. And while you're right about my distaste for some Baroque music (I do actually enjoy Handel; my beef is largely with Bach and his particular style), I think the addition of a 20th century harmonic language to those forms would be interesting. After all, Ravel's _Tombeau_ which I mentioned is an homage to the Baroque dance suite!


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

Mephistopheles said:


> For some strange reason, I think neobaroque is generally considered to be part of the neoclassical label, which is not so much a reference to big-c Classical music as it is to music before the Romantic period in general. And while you're right about my distaste for some Baroque music (I do actually enjoy Handel; my beef is largely with Bach and his particular style), I think the addition of a 20th century harmonic language to those forms would be interesting. After all, Ravel's _Tombeau_ which I mentioned is an homage to the Baroque dance suite!


You are generally correct. Most of what I have heard that has a strict Neo-classical label applied to it draws both heavily from the Classical era as well as the contrapuntal glory of the Baroque. It rejects the ideals of Romanticism in its core, however, which could be a good or bad thing depending on if you like Romantic music much or not.

As for Hindemith, also check out his Three Piano Sonatas recorded by Gould. They are pretty amazing IMO and are what got me into some of his deeper works. I actually found the CD at a bargain store for like $3.99 and it was in mint condition.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

In addition to Hindemith, I'd mention Albert Roussel and Arthur Honegger.


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

Andreas said:


> In addition to Hindemith, I'd mention Albert Roussel and Arthur Honegger.


Interesting. I have honestly never heard of those composers, so it will be fun to research them and hear some of their works. Thanks for the post!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Re the discussion above about Neo-Classicism and Neo-Baroque, I also see the latter as being under the umbrella of the former. These things, incl. the 'back to Bach' movement (which Stravinsky and Bartok where pretty big parts of) was partly a reaction against the subjectivism and big emotions of late Romanticism.

& it touched even those who where more subjective in their aesthetic. Even though Schoenberg dismissed Neo-Classicism as little more than rehashing old stuff (he said these composers where putting on Bach's wig, I read a quote of his like that) he too used the old forms, but maybe its not so obvious. _Pierrot Lunaire _has a number of canons, and many of the songs are in a kind of A-B-A format. So too other works he did in the 1920's (eg. the _Suite_ and _Serenad__e_). Even the three movement format of his violin concerto, with that dance like final movement attests to this in some ways.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

No mention of Respighi. He's got some neo-classical works as well. Ancient Airs and Dances as an example.


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> No mention of Respighi. He's got some neo-classical works as well. Ancient Airs and Dances as an example.


I know the term neoclassicism is famously vague as far as music goes, but personally I'm not so sure about classifying the Ancient Airs and Dances as neoclassical. After all they are arrangements of mostly Renaissance/early Baroque lute pieces, and Respighi follows the original harmonies etc very closely. From what I've heard of the original pieces he uses, the only significant 're-composition' consists of putting different pieces together so they make ABA-forms. I think you could say that they are the result of this era's preoccupation with pre-romantic music and is related to neoclassicism in that sense, as they share some of the same impulse, but I wouldn't say they are good examples of actual neoclassical music in the stricter sense, which usually implies a sort of 'updating' of classical/baroque models/forms/techniques. (Long sentence) Feel free to disagree.

As far as neo-baroque (wether or not you think the distinction is meaningful) goes, you can't go wrong with Shostakovich' 24 Preludes and Fugues, op.87. Well, as long as you don't hate fugues, that is..


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

One of my favorites





And a very different 'neoclassicist' concerto grosso than the Bloch. It has a little more Hindemith in it than Martinu usually does.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Nikolai Medtner started off as a fringe "late romantic" and evolved very little though his harmonic style quickly assimilated almost jazzy elements in his first few opuses. In that short period he also acquired a classical bent. Indeed, he can be described as having classicized a sort of post romantic tonal style. This later piece is him at his most classical:


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

clavichorder said:


> Nikolai Medtner started off as a fringe "late romantic" and evolved very little though his harmonic style quickly assimilated almost jazzy elements in his first few opuses. In that short period he also acquired a classical bent. Indeed, he can be described as having classicized a sort of post romantic tonal style. This later piece is him at his most classical:


That pianist kinda creeps me out.


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