# Star Trek Seems To Confirm That 4'33" Is Actual Music



## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

How Can Commander "Data" Be Wrong?


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

As a totally fictional character from a tv show, yes "Commander Data" can be wrong (and I don't even have to watch the clip to say so).


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Apparently, it was discovered by the "Dusadarians" (whatever they are and however the word should be spelled) - obviously a aesthetically advanced species - and Data was just trying it out. And it seems it can get a lot more epic than 433! This is the proof we have been waiting for.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

hehe, better than the Vogon poetry


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

JAS said:


> As a totally fictional character from a tv show, yes "Commander Data" can be wrong (and I don't even have to watch the clip to say so).


You apparently are not an early Star Trek fan. While Data is a fictional character, Star Trek often included truth or things that we have since addressed such as Quantum Physics. I will google this and find out if it is, in fact true.

I did not find anything with that spelling. I did find the Dorians who made a great contribution to poetry. They would not have thrown that in there like that if there was not some history behind it.

https://www.poetrysoup.com/poems/dorian


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Early Star Trek Fan here, reporting for duty! 

It's an interesting OP, but actually, Data's role in The Next Generation is often to make the audience reflect on human life by saying something inappropriate or failing to get a joke or taking well-meant advice to absurd extremes. 

Here it shows a sort of cultural earnestness which is not totally to be taken seriously - in my view - and that is underscored by the fact that he gets Geordie's intention wrong - or does he? 

Data can be wrong - or he can seem at first to be wrong while actually being right. 

So it's not the watertight proof one might have been looking for.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> Early Star Trek Fan here, reporting for duty!
> 
> It's an interesting OP, but actually, Data's role in The Next Generation is often to make the audience reflect on human life by saying something inappropriate or failing to get a joke or taking well-meant advice to absurd extremes.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean Data. I meant the Dusadarians. They really knew their art!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Enthusiast said:


> I didn't mean Data. I meant the Dusadarians. They really knew their art!


Their poetry must not have made an impression on Geordie. It didn't end up on Reading Rainbow.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Flawed thread premise: 4'33" is not "empty."


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

Ingélou said:


> Early Star Trek Fan here, reporting for duty!
> 
> It's an interesting OP, but actually, Data's role in The Next Generation is often to make the audience reflect on human life by saying something inappropriate or failing to get a joke or taking well-meant advice to absurd extremes.
> 
> ...


Oh, I agree Data can be wrong. And your right about Jordi's intention. But usually the show doesn't throw a concept in, out of thin air like that. I guess it could go either way. But Artificial Intelligence and "machine learning" that is being worked on with early prototypes right now is not so different in concept than what the character Data was. Not to get too OT, but Data's greatest wish was to be more "human-like". The problem with AI is that it may very well carry with it our biases. That is very dangerous indeed. Do you remember in the first Star Trek series (Kirk) there was an episode called, "The Perfect Computer"? That is what AI is like.

Of course, there is also the other possibility that John Cage came up with an idea that had never been thought of in the history of mankind.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

millionrainbows said:


> Flawed thread premise: 4'33" is not "empty."


That was basically the point Data was making except he was using poetry instead of music. He was "studying" poetry on a computer screen but the screen was completely blank. He was saying what you are saying.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> I didn't mean Data. I meant the Dusadarians. They really knew their art!


Ah - and I didn't mean you (in my post) but was referring to the OP. 
Such are the perils of internet communication! 

But the Dusadarians had 'lacunae' - which implies that there was some poetry in the middle of the silence, just as there is the occasional bush in a Japanese garden.

What a pity that Data sacrificed himself for the human race, or we could get him to make the definitive statement on 4' 33" - as an android, he's completely without bias.


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