# Schubert's symphonies no. 7 and no. 10 as completed by Newbould



## Perotin

What do you think of Newbould's completion of the two symphonies. I listened to both works and I find them wonderful. It's a pity Schubert didn't finish them himself, if even orchestrations by others sound so good, haw great would be the original scoring?

Wikipedia quotes: "Symphony No. 7 is the name given to a four-movement symphony in E major (D 729) drafted by Franz Schubert in August 1821. Although the work (which comprises about 1350 bars[1]) is structurally complete, Schubert only orchestrated the slow introduction and the first 110 bars of the first movement. The rest of the work is, however, continued on 14-stave score pages as a melodic line with occasional basses or counterpoints, giving clues as to changes in orchestral texture."

"Schubert's Symphony No. 10 in D major, D.936a, is an unfinished work that survives in a piano sketch. Written during the last weeks of the composer's short life, it was only properly identified in the 1970s. It has been orchestrated by Brian Newbould in a completion that has subsequently been performed, published and recorded.
The sketches are written on two staves, with voice leading, and harmonies ranging from complete to partly indicated.[2] The manuscript contains about 30 instrumental indications, confirming that the intended orchestra was similar in size to the Eighth and Ninth symphonies, with a trio of trombones.[3]The manuscript contains sketches of 3 movements, each one in different time signatures. Scholars agree that the second movement is virtually completed,[2] while the two outer are in less completed form.[2] According to Newbould, the second and third movements are complete in the sketches, with the first only lacking the recapitulation.[2]"


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## Jeff W

I like them both, along with Newbould's "completion" of the 8th. Newbould paints a portrait of what could have been had Schubert lived longer.


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## delenzina

I find them simply stunning.

First of all it gives us the oportunity to enjoy "new" Schubert symphonic material which are great news in itself.

Giving an opinion of each specific case (the realisation of this 2 symphonies seem to be a bit different): (please excuse me my bad english)

-D729 (7th symphony):

As I have read the work was structurally completed. This means that, there are not extra bars put inside apart of the ones Schubert wrote. Newbould's work would have been focused on the orchestration... and not in the same way in each movement. In the case of the 1st one, Schubert completed the orchestration of the slow intro and part of the development. Considering the 'repetitive' nature of the piece (in a good way, I don't find any reshuffle out of place, the tunes are great), I supose this movement didn't took too much effort to be finished, and basically Newbould just took note of the work that had been fully done and applied the same criteria for the rest of bars. For the rest of movements maybe the work was harder. I haven't seen the original scores, just read around the net and the brief explanation of Newbould... but it seems that there was just the melodic line and some notes for the harmonnies. Depending of what grade of detail was written for them we would be talking of just an orchestration work, or a more deeper study in what harmonnies to choose. The result anyway is impressive. The second movement is absolutely gorgeus. Having heard Weintgartner version of this movement it seems that the score lets some liberty to choose the harmonnies. but Newbould reconstruction of d708 and d936 are very serious and precise. I would give my vote for Newbould's one, anyway both versions are nice, and schubert melody is incredible. Anyone knows the original score of this movement to make a valoration between both reconstructions and accords?

-D936 (10th symphony)

Here it seems that there's only a movement 'virtually' completed in structure (the second one). Anyway and, unlike in 7th score, here it seems that Schubert completed the harmonic line in the parts of the work completed (in a piano score), so, although there are parts which had to be structured and in some cases 'connected', he didn't let to immagination this point. The original scores of the three movements are available here: http://www.schubert-online.at/activpage/index_en.htm.

Anyway and knowing how hard could be to understand Franz's original manuscripts there's is a midi version of the music in this original works, which I found thanks to google. The fact is that this give us the opportunity to compare the original piano score with Newboulds realization. By mi point of view (but I'm far away of being an expert) is that Newboulds completion is exquisitely respectful. The melodies and harmonics are all there, and listening to the piano original tabs it's easy to recognize all the music in Newboulds completion. 
To be precise, the first movement seems to be the less completed, and it surprised me that the third one was quite advanced.
Focusing on Newboulds work, the labours of structuration are efective, everything seems to be in the correct and logic place and the orchestration sounds pure Schubert. By my point of view we've to be grateful, the material Schubert let in here is marvellous and this completions give us the chance to listen to a realistic completion of them, it's a pity that they're underrated, because the musical material is great.
In my personal opinion this two works, could be immediately behind the "three golden": (5th,incomplete and the great), and aside the enjoyable 4th.
Furthermore I recommend to listen to the orchestration of d708. They're just extracts (Newbould didn't write anything in this case just orchestrate)- They're also jewels.


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## maestro267

Sorry, but I'm not buying this. Schubert's 7th and 10th symphonies, to all intents and purposes, don't exist. Or not enough of them exists to warrant allocating them places in his repertoire. If someone can say a work is structurally complete without there being any major chunks of music available, then I can say I've written a symphony just by throwing together some movements and basic tempo markings.

I believe the B minor is the 7th, and the C major "Great" is the 8th.


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## mtmailey

Sorry, but I'm not buying this. Schubert's 7th and 10th symphonies, to all intents and purposes, don't exist. Or not enough of them exists to warrant allocating them places in his repertoire. If someone can say a work is structurally complete without there being any major chunks of music available, then I can say I've written a symphony just by throwing together some movements and basic tempo markings. If you do research online you would know that SCHUBERT symphony 10 was a piano sketch therefore one can make a symphony from that.The symphony 7 was incomplete but material was left to make the entire symphony.


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## delenzina

Obviously they're what they are, uncompleted works, in that sense there is not discussion. Even if you think that it's more appropiate not to considere them as number 7th and 10th in the catalogue I find it a very understandable point of view.
But it's pleasent to go there and research, find that original scores on the net, even piano midi recording of the scores Schubert was working in (in both cases in an advanced form) and find out that these completions are quite solid and respectful.

I completely agree with mtmailey in the sense that the scores are perfectly valid and there's enough material to build up a work from them without adding musical elements that distort the essence of the work. In my personal opinion these two works are worthy and fully enjoyable pieces of Schubert, rescued and restored with care. It is clear that we won't never know if Schubert would have made ​​significant changes to them, but these 'symphonic sketches' demonstrate once again the priceless melodic and compositional genius of its author.


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## Arsakes

No.10 is quite enjoyable (more than no.5 and 6), but no.7 doesn't really interest me. 

So they didn't make it as symphonies back in Schubert's days?


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## scratchgolf

I recently purchased these but it will take many more listenings to have a solid opinion of them. Then again, his 9th Symphony is such a majestic accomplishment that everything else is doomed to fall short for me. I swear, I would take 2 years off the end of my life and give them to Schubert, if only to allow him to finish the 7th, 8th, and 10th. Maybe write one or two more also.


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## Radames

Arsakes said:


> No.10 is quite enjoyable (more than no.5 and 6), but no.7 doesn't really interest me.
> 
> So they didn't make it as symphonies back in Schubert's days?


According to this 
http://theclassicalreviewer.blogspot.com/2012/03/new-schubert-completion-update.html


> Schubert began thirteen symphonies but amazingly only finished seven. This leaves a remarkable six symphonies left in various stages of incompletion.


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