# A genre you can't take to



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

For example: I like string trios and quintets. String quartets are somehow less interesting to me - and I don't know why. They can be as dense and filled with great ideas, but I can't fully get into them. I force myself to try, though.

Piano sonatas for two pianos, or for four hands? I can take 'em or leave 'em, but I can listen to concertos for two pianos.

Likewise, though I love opera and classical songs by Schubert and Wolf, I rarely listen to church music. It's not the content, nor the fact that I find it easier to get it when I'm actually in church - it's the form doesn't excite me. It's not music I'd put a CD in the car and listen to.

I suppose there's no knowing why some music strikes us and other music doesn't, but I wonder if it's common to be cold towards certain forms, even by our favourite composers - or by any composers?


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

Kieran said:


> For example: I like string trios and quintets. String quartets are somehow less interesting to me - and I don't know why. They can be as dense and filled with great ideas, but I can't fully get into them. I force myself to try, though.
> 
> Piano sonatas for two pianos, or for four hands? I can take 'em or leave 'em, but I can listen to concertos for two pianos.
> 
> ...


Does Octet for Baryton count?

Only I've got this thing about barytons, especially for octet. I come out in a rash as soon as anybody mentions it. If I ever have the misfortune to hear one, I go ape.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I used to have difficulty getting into chamber music with strings but no piano (like quartets and string trios). It was the middle period Beethoven quartets that broke that "prejudice" for me and now I love quartets. I don't have a problem with church music per se but find much Romantic period church music quite hard work (Verdi's, Brahms' and Faure's Requiems are exceptions).


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Genoveva said:


> Does Octet for Baryton count?
> 
> Only I've got this thing about barytons, especially for octet. I come out in a rash as soon as anybody mentions it. If I ever have the misfortune to hear one, I go ape.


I'm like this with the creepy harpsichord. My teeth chatter and I want to run somewhere. Fast!


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Enthusiast said:


> I used to have difficulty getting into chamber music with strings but no piano (like quartets and string trios). It was the middle period Beethoven quartets that broke that "prejudice" for me and now I love quartets. I don't have a problem with church music per se but find much Romantic period church music quite hard work (Verdi's, Brahms' and Faure's Requiems are exceptions).


Sometimes the Romantic's church music was more about the composer than the liturgy, me reckons. A lot of church music sounds too operatic to me, too, and that's distracting...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

not a genre but counter-tenors <shudder>


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

To be honest, I really am not a fan of vocal music, in Classical that is. I will listen to and enjoy some Opera but vocals placed in a symphony just bugs me. In Chamber music, I love most piano trios, piano quartets, piano quintets etc, but do not love all string music. Quartets I found hard to listen to for a number of years but not so much any longer. Certainly, my love of strings has grown with time and concentrated listening. I have always loved symphonic music and it will remain my first love and pleasure within classical. Piano sonatas would be my next favorite. That said though I do try to be "balanced" in my classical listening, with the exception of not really listening to vocal music.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Kieran said:


> I'm like this with the creepy harpsichord. My teeth chatter and I want to run somewhere. Fast!


This reminded me that I like harpsichord music but only in small doses. Same with organ music. It will give me a headache if I listen too long but occasionally it's fun to have a couple of Bach organ pieces blasting through the stereo.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Anything with wordless female voices. Usually French but even Holst! I break out in hives and my teeth get loose.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

I just can't take to the symphony no matter how hard I try or how many I listen to. The only symphony I do enjoy is Sibelius 4th.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Religious music


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2018)

Musicals


.............


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Anything with a narrator or speaking parts. 
In fact I struggle with recitative in opera - which is a shame as I often like the music.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Vast, gaseous, portentous, interminable symphonies by late 19th and early 20th century composers.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Strange Magic said:


> Vast, gaseous, portentous, interminable symphonies by late 19th and early 20th century composers.


Names! We need some names over here! :lol:


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

* I must admit I don't like vocal music that much (lieder, songs, recitative parts or narrations). Above all those boring reciter parts in works that can damage them seriously. The only work I like a reciter is Lincoln's Portrait of Copland.

* Zarzuelas

* Baroque French opera

* Music for viola da gamba solo

* Some religious music

My beloved SYMPHONIES will never be in here!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Perhaps there's no accounting for taste, but sometimes other factors are involved. I love Ravel's music but can't take his _Rhapsodie Espagnole_ for orchestra! The F-E-D-C# ostinato (repeated pattern) drives me nuts -- like chalk squeaking on the blackboard. If anyone knows of a cure please let me know!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2018)

Kieran said:


> Sometimes the Romantic's church music was more about the composer than the liturgy, me reckons. A lot of church music sounds too operatic to me, too, and that's distracting...


Not like these, though, aye? Not operatic - or anything - vaguely resembling the theatrical!!






Neither is this:






But, this most definitely is:


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Choirs singing wordlessly (la la laa).


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Roger Knox said:


> Perhaps there's no accounting for taste, but sometimes other factors are involved. I love Ravel's music but can't take his _Rhapsodie Espagnole_ for orchestra! The F-E-D-C# ostinato (repeated pattern) drives me nuts -- like chalk squeaking on the blackboard. If anyone knows of a cure please let me know!


Don't listen to it springs to mind!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Malx said:


> Don't listen to it springs to mind!


Thank you -- the prevention treatment! Come to think of it, endless musical repetition bugs me . . . oh dear, the hours spent listening to minimal music!


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Pretty much French baroque anything ... even though I love a lot of Italian baroque stuff.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Names! We need some names over here! :lol:


No names. Nope. I've posted very often on my personal policy of not knocking the other person's specific musical choices. You are left to wonder (if you want to) whether I like or dislike your particular favorite vast, gaseous, portentous, interminable symphony .


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Christabel said:


> Not like these, though, aye? Not operatic - or anything - vaguely resembling the theatrical!!


Absolutely, Mozart included. As a Catholic, I prefer the music to be almost prayer by proxy, and not a form of entertainment...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

MusicSybarite said:


> * I must admit I don't like vocal music that much (lieder, songs, recitative parts or narrations). Above all those boring reciter parts in works that can damage them seriously. The only work I like a reciter is Lincoln's Portrait of Copland.
> 
> * Zarzuelas
> 
> ...


But these aren't "vast, gaseous, portentous, interminable" symphonies, right? :lol:

The recitatives in operas are sometimes teeth-chattering, but I don't mind them so much...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Becca said:


> not a genre but counter-tenors <shudder>


Really? Of all the vocalists, this one gives you the shakes? I suppose it makes sense, it might be to do with the pitch?


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Kevin Pearson said:


> To be honest, I really am not a fan of vocal music, in Classical that is. I will listen to and enjoy some Opera but vocals placed in a symphony just bugs me. In Chamber music, I love most piano trios, piano quartets, piano quintets etc, but do not love all string music. Quartets I found hard to listen to for a number of years but not so much any longer. Certainly, my love of strings has grown with time and concentrated listening. I have always loved symphonic music and it will remain my first love and pleasure within classical. Piano sonatas would be my next favorite. That said though I do try to be "balanced" in my classical listening, with the exception of not really listening to vocal music.


It's interesting, Kevin, that you like the full orchestral sound of a symph - and the single instrument adventure of piano sonatas. And like me, the string quartet is a difficulty. I don't know why it is, with me, but it might just be that strng trios and quintets contain the right balance of instruments? I dunno...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

KenOC said:


> Anything with wordless female voices. Usually French but even Holst! I break out in hives and my teeth get loose.


Wordless? As in, big-haired, extravagant, breast-clutching coloratas? Endless dramatic yodelling? Not a fan...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Tulse said:


> Musicals
> 
> 
> .............


I enjoyed La La Land, though!  I thought the opening scene on the bridge was brilliant. Some musicals I'm partial to, got to admit...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I haven't really found a genre that doesn't please me. As long as I don't stick to any one genre/composer/style too much, it keeps things interesting.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> Vast, gaseous, portentous, interminable symphonies by late 19th and early 20th century composers.


Probably it's just the gas. Some of them romantic symphs leave a lousy whiff after them...


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I don't like lieder that much, and I haven't taken to opera. It's the language barrier mostly; I don't like to spend my time with my head buried in a libretto trying to decipher words which are already obscured by vibrato. 

I also don't care much for tone poems. I can never follow the story, and again, it usually involves burying my head in an outline of a piece trying to figure out if the trill is a musical affectation or an integral part of the story.


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## impossiblysmart (Mar 25, 2018)

I honestly cannot listen to the Planets...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

impossiblysmart said:


> I honestly cannot listen to the Planets...


By Holst? Welcome to Talk Classical btw, enjoy your stay here!


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## impossiblysmart (Mar 25, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> By Holst? Welcome to Talk Classical btw, enjoy your stay here!


Thanks! And yeah... I just can't get through them. I probably most ok with Mars, but even then...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

impossiblysmart said:


> I honestly cannot listen to the Planets...


Same with me. And I often suspect he just randomly named them The Planets to be aloof and meaningful, but really, they don't suggest anything to me. He could have named them Dogs Dinners and they'd still be the same.

Welcome to the forum, by the way! :tiphat:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Kieran said:


> Same with me. And I often suspect he just randomly named them The Planets to be aloof and meaningful, but really, they don't suggest anything to me. He could have named them Dogs Dinners and they'd still be the same.
> 
> Welcome to the forum, by the way! :tiphat:


With instrumental music, you can say just about any piece represents anything and have a "theme" to help sell it. Kind of like Vivaldi's Four Seasons.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> With instrumental music, you can say just about any piece represents anything and have a "theme" to help sell it. Kind of like Vivaldi's Four Seasons.


True. If he'd been born in the 19th century, he might have called them The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and been hailed an even greater genius than he was. In the 20th century? He'd call them 4 Different Flavours of Campbell's Soup.

Brilliant, they'd say! :lol:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Really? I thought they capture the moods, themes very well, although the last 3 become harder to differentiate, the magician from the mystic, and from bringer of old age. But Neptune fits it very well.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Really? I thought they capture the moods, themes very well, although the last 3 become harder to differentiate, the magician from the mystic, and from bringer of old age. But Neptune fits it very well.


I just feel it's so subjective, especially with instrumental music. I'm not saying he is a hack or anything, though.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

The only genre in all music I have most trouble getting into is Swing and Smooth Jazz.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

impossiblysmart said:


> I honestly cannot listen to the Planets...


Maybe colors will sound better. Try Bliss' _A Colour Symphony_. But you only get four .


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Guitar, lute, vihuela, and allied strummed strings quickly bore me.

I do not like the flute in chamber music. I don't feel guilty because Mozart didn't like it either. (18th-century joke: "What is worse than a flute?" Answer: "Two flutes.")

I find trombone concertos absurd. Let us not even contemplate tuba concertos, though Vaughan Williams probably did what little could be done, which was not to write another one.

Classical period choral works, even the best masses of Haydn and Mozart, tend to leave me cold; "Kyrie eleison" is not supposed to sound cheerful. Things start to get interesting with Cherubini and Beethoven. 

Big, gaudy orchestral "showpieces" like Sheherazade and anything "Espagnol" are more or less intolerable. 

I don't want to hear any Bellini, Donizetti, Rossini or early Verdi operas unless incredibly great singers do them, which usually means someone who died before I was born or Maria Callas.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I think for me it is lieder.

I love vocal - and lieder can be beautiful - but the prospect of listening to a CD full of lieder makes me feel very grim.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Malx said:


> Anything with a narrator or speaking parts.


+1 (except in Bach's Passions)


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2018)

Opera. And classical singing in general (although there may be exceptions).

And, in agreement with Woodduck: trombones. In classical? I think not.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> Guitar, lute, vihuela, and allied strummed strings quickly bore me.
> 
> I do not like the flute in chamber music.* I don't feel guilty because Mozart didn't like it either.* (18th-century joke: "What is worse than a flute?" Answer: "Two flutes.")
> 
> ...


he wrote a cracking flute quartet though


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Guitar, lute, vihuela, and allied strummed strings quickly bore me.
> 
> I do not like the flute in chamber music. I don't feel guilty because Mozart didn't like it either. (18th-century joke: "What is worse than a flute?" Answer: "Two flutes.")
> 
> ...


I have some sympathy with this, especially guitar music, and the Kyrie. Classical guitar sounds obnoxious to me, and the harp in Mozart's flute and harp job, K299, sounds like it's really just part of the other stuff, and the flute is doing the work.

I like wind music in general, but there are instruments that struggle to supply a full concerto. They just don't have the vocal range, so to speak, and to persist beyond their point of exhaustion is cruel...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

dogen said:


> Opera. And classical singing in general (although there may be exceptions).
> 
> And, in agreement with Woodduck: trombones. In classical? I think not.


The trombone in classical music always stood metaphorically for something though, didn't it? I can't remember if it's lust, or it's a staple of church music. I don't mean the choice of these pair to be considered witty, by the way. I remember reading once of the use of trombones in a Mozart opera signifying something either psychological, or metaphorical.

But that wasn't applied to a huge elaborate trombone solo...


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2018)

I believe the trombone in classical music is used to represent the clown, as he enters the circus ring and immediately slips on a giant banana skin thus falling into a bathtub ridiculously overflowing with suds.

In popular music it can be a great instrument.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

stomanek said:


> I think for me it is lieder.
> 
> I love vocal - and lieder can be beautiful - *but the prospect of listening to a CD full of lieder makes me feel very grim.*


The imagery sort of funny - made me laugh


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Symphonies were always the most difficult for me, with some exceptions like Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, Mahler and Respighi symphonies and symphonic works, and couple of others. So it's not completely hopeless.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

stomanek said:


> he wrote a cracking flute quartet though


I am not at all crazy about the flute but I absolutely love the Bach Orchestral Suite in B minor when the flute obbligato (in particular) is played well.

And I went to an arts series concert at my church a couple of years ago and they had a flute quartet: a piccolo, regular soprano, alto, bass flute and contrabass flute, and they really formed a great ensemble and made some lovely sounds.

Ah, here we are: the Morningstar Flute Ensemble: http://morningstarflutes.com/about-morningstar/

And, I wrote a little flute obbligato that one of them played (quite beautifully, BTW) for my solo back in January, "Gesù Bambino." So, maybe I am a grudging fan after all.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Kieran said:


> The trombone in classical music always stood metaphorically for something though, didn't it? I can't remember if it's lust, or it's a staple of church music. I don't mean the choice of these pair to be considered witty, by the way. I remember reading once of the use of trombones in a Mozart opera signifying something either psychological, or metaphorical.
> 
> But that wasn't applied to a huge elaborate trombone solo...


I loved music as a kid (and my whole life), but the trombone like to have ruined me forever. In grade school little shrimpy me decided to take up the trombone. I really did walk a mile or more to school (back in the day when it was safe to do so), and the darn thing with its case seemed like it weighed as much as I did, a real chore to bring it home to practice. In a modest house with three sisters and two parents, the sound of me brapping and blatting away on a baritone instrument or shrieking up into soprano register was intolerable. There are three or four "positions" that beginners learn. And then, I could not read music. So the band teacher's way of imparting musical wisdom was to show me how many beats each note got, flashing his fat fingers before my face while shouting "THREE!" "ONE!" "FOUR!"

I quit after maybe two weeks and didn't try music again for years! My schoolbooks never seemed so heavy again.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

bel canto singing

Baroque opera

I've been to classical guitar concerts i've enjoyed. But never listen to it on my own.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Names! We need some names over here! :lol:


Karajan's Mahler 5.
Rattle's Mahler 3.

I can't get any genre some of the time, why can't Herr Karajan et. al. get it right consistently!


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Barelytenor said:


> I loved music as a kid (and my whole life), but the trombone like to have ruined me forever. In grade school little shrimpy me decided to take up the trombone. I really did walk a mile or more to school (back in the day when it was safe to do so), and the darn thing with its case seemed like it weighed as much as I did, a real chore to bring it home to practice. In a modest house with three sisters and two parents, the sound of me brapping and blatting away on a baritone instrument or shrieking up into soprano register was intolerable. There are three or four "positions" that beginners learn. And then, I could not read music. So the band teacher's way of imparting musical wisdom was to show me how many beats each note got, flashing his fat fingers before my face while shouting "THREE!" "ONE!" "FOUR!"
> 
> I quit after maybe two weeks and didn't try music again for years! My schoolbooks never seemed so heavy again.
> 
> ...


we need no more proof than this Dickensian tale of trombone torture!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Lute music. As much as the instrument has been used in serious composition right up to the late baroque era it still reminds me of minstrels prancing about singing _hey-nonny-nonny_ or Elizabethans doing a naff-looking courtly dance. Perhaps I'm biased as I don't listen to music from pre-1700 anyway.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

classical yorkist said:


> I just can't take to the symphony no matter how hard I try or how many I listen to. The only symphony I do enjoy is Sibelius 4th.


That is interesting because for me it is very much the opposite. For instrumental music I primarily like symphony and not much else.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> Lute music. As much as the instrument has been used in serious composition right up to the late baroque era it still reminds me of minstrels prancing about singing _hey-nonny-nonny_ or Elizabethans doing a naff-looking courtly dance. Perhaps I'm biased as I don't listen to music from pre-1700 anyway.


You're thinking Blackadder aren't you. 

Personally, I have found some beautiful Middle Eastern music utilising a relative of the lute, the oud.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

dogen said:


> Opera. And classical singing in general (although there may be exceptions).
> 
> And, in agreement with Woodduck: trombones. In classical? I think not.


I guess that's why right now the score is:

Classical Music Forum: 165 (viewing)
Opera: 72 (which is high for the Opera forum)

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Kieran said:


> Same with me. And I often suspect he just randomly named them The Planets to be aloof and meaningful, but really, they don't suggest anything to me. He could have named them Dogs Dinners and they'd still be the same.


Actually Holst was composing with the Greek gods in mind, not the solar system.


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

Romantic era violin concertos. 

Anything violin and piano. I just can't. That instrument combination does absolutely nothing for me.

Anything atonal with extended techniques. Both instrumental and vocal.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

oh I forgot

any music that pretends double base can be a soloist instrument

trombones are fine think about rex tremendae without them which has been done, by hogwood I think


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Roger Knox said:


> Actually Holst was composing with the Greek gods in mind, not the solar system.


According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, neither:

"Holst wrote his collection of planetary portraits from 1914 to 1916, while he was director of music at St. Paul's Girls' School. His inspiration, he readily offered, came from astrology and horoscopes rather than astronomy and mythology."


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> . .. I find trombone concertos absurd....





dogen said:


> ... And, in agreement with Woodduck: trombones. In classical? I think not....


Speaking of trombones ... my daughter texted me the other day ~ "Mom, turn on the radio, they're going to play something called *The Seven Trombones of The Apocalypse*!!"  (and yes, one of my girls actually listens to the classical station in her car!) She played trombone all through school in both Jazz & Concert bands, & is always excited to hear pieces with an interesting trombone part. Anyway, I didn't hear it, but my daughter was disappointed ~ she didn't feel that it was nearly as dramatic as one might expect a Trombone Apocalypse to be. :lol:


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I am not a fan of pieces that quote other pieces.

A perfect example is an otherwise great piece, Thea Musgrave's "The Seasons".

I just can't listen to the part IV, "Summer" because of the quote starting at 1:41.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

dogen said:


> You're thinking Blackadder aren't you.


Not then, but thinking of that now doesn't exactly help...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I agree with OP: I dislike string quartets. I find them dull. Big, brash orchestral works no longer interest me, either.

My favorite forms are the classical piano sonatas of Haydn and Mozart played on fortepiano and the Bach solo keyboard works played on harpsichord. Also, the Paris and London Symphonies of Haydn, played by stylistically aware ensembles are tops with hpowders.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I like almost every genre. I used to find chamber music in general boring, and I avoided all quartets and trios...but I've changed my mind about them since discovering Brahms' chamber works. 

The only genre I suppose I'm not interested in is piano transcriptions of orchestral works. Sorry Liszt and Busoni. I love your original works, though


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## Beet131 (Mar 24, 2018)

My wife loves all kinds of choral music, including Shaker music. I cannot abide Shaker music!


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## Beet131 (Mar 24, 2018)

This would drive me stark-raving mad!


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## Beet131 (Mar 24, 2018)

Beet131 said:


> This would drive me stark-raving mad!


I have to admit though, I do start shaking!!!:lol:


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I am liederless. No "follow the lieder" for me. Perhaps that is why my musical path is so erratic.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

This thread has driven me to a long period of "Well, I can't be doing with .... oh but that piece is just brilliant...". Some may call it introspection; others would more accurately infer that I can't make my mind up about a dam' thing.

However, Baroque Opera. Never yet met one that didn't make my ears scream for mercy.

And bagpipes, obviously. Hardly needs saying.


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Beet131 said:


> This would drive me stark-raving mad!


Wow, those Shakers really knew how to get down with their bad selves! :lol:
This actually reminds me of the seniors' aerobics classes that they do in my mil's nursing home!


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