# Composers: Last four in, First four out



## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

This is an NCAA tournament themed game. For those that don't live in the US or don't follow sports, the NCAA college basketball championship is decided by a single elimination tournament consisting of 64 teams (well 68 really but let's not confuse the continentals). Before the tournament, much is made in sports media of the "last four in" and "first four out" teams, referring to the cut off as to who is good enough to make the tournament.

That brief explanation out of the way, this thread is for who you think the "last four in" and "first four out" composers are as it refers to the core repertoire of composers. I'm not asking you to rank any composers at all, just imagine if someone asked you "give me X number of composers to learn about classical music." You would have to make a cutoff somewhere and so the idea behind this thread is to give 8 composers - 4 of which you would include at the tail end of your "core repertoire" and 4 of which would just miss the cut.

For reference, I'm going to append a top 100 composers list I found on Google from this user's post. You don't have to treat your four composers in this order, I'm just giving a rough outline of who you might include and where.

1. Ludwig van Beethoven
2. Johann Sebastian Bach
3. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
4. Franz Schubert
5. Johannes Brahms
6. Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
7. Richard Wagner
8. Gustav Mahler
9. Joseph Haydn
10. Claude Debussy
11. Frédéric Chopin
12. George Frideric Handel
13. Antonín Dvořák
14. Jean Sibelius
15. Sergei Prokofiev
16. Igor Stravinsky
17. Dmitri Shostakovich
18. Robert Schumann
19. Felix Mendelssohn
20. Maurice Ravel
21. Richard Strauss
22. Franz Liszt
23. Sergei Rachmaninoff
24. Béla Bartók
25. Anton Bruckner
26. Giuseppe Verdi
27. Claudio Monteverdi
28. Arnold Schoenberg
29. Edvard Grieg
30. Antonio Vivaldi
31. Hector Berlioz
32. Ralph Vaughan Williams
33. Camille Saint-Saëns
34. Edward Elgar
35. Giacomo Puccini
36. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov
37. Modest Mussorgsky
38. Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina
39. Gioachino Rossini
40. Anton Webern
41. Josquin des Prez
42. Samuel Barber
43. Alban Berg
44. György Ligeti
45. Domenico Scarlatti
46. Leoš Janáček
47. Benjamin Britten
48. Oliver Messiaen
49. Carl Nielsen
50. Gabriel Fauré
51. Alexander Borodin
52. Jean-Philippe Rameau
53. Alexander Scriabin
54. Georges Bizet
55. Aaron Copland
56. Niccolò Paganini
57. Gaetano Donizetti
58. Edgard Varèse
59. Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach
60. Charles Ives
61. Isaac Albéniz
62. Iannis Xenakis
63. Morton Feldman
64. Henry Purcell
65. Gustav Holst
66. Georg Philipp Telemann
67. Erik Satie
68. Ottorino Respighi
69. Bedřich Smetana
70. Aram Khachaturian
71. Vincenzo Bellini
72. Alexander Glazunov
73. George Enescu
74. Johannes Ockeghem
75. Pierre Boulez
76. William Walton
77. Charles-Valentin Alkan
78. Karol Szymanowski
79. Elliott Carter
80. Alberto Ginastera
81. Guillaume de Machaut
82. Arthur Honegger
83. Luigi Boccherini
84. Nikolai Myaskovsky
85. Max Bruch
86. Einojuhani Rautavaara
87. Alexander von Zemlinsky
88. Guillaume Dufay
89. Arvo Pärt
90. Jules Massenet
91. Manuel de Falla
92. Bohuslav Martinů
93. Girolamo Frescobaldi
94. Luciano Berio
95. Johann Strauss II
96. Louis Spohr
97. Hildegard of Bingen
98. Tomás Luis de Victoria
99. Karlheinz Stockhausen
100. Witold Lutosławski


----------



## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

To respond to my own query, 

My last four in the core repertoire are Janacek, Purcell, Walton, and Telemann. 

My first four out are Paganini, Webern, Bruch, and Taneyev.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

bz3 said:


> To respond to my own query,
> 
> My last four in the core repertoire are Janacek, Purcell, Walton, and Telemann.
> 
> My first four out are Paganini, Webern, Bruch, and Taneyev.


Telemann - oh, how *could* you!


----------



## Arent (Mar 27, 2017)

How many of us can actually give a thoughtful opinion on 100 composers? Hats off to those who are so steeped in music! I'd need to clone myself so I can listen to all that music while still engaging in economically productive activity...


----------



## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Last four: Bruch, Beethoven, Schoenberg, Mozart (ouch, I know!)

First four: Schmitt, Toch, Hovhaness, Onslow


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Last four: Liadov, Medtner, Reicha, Villa-Lobos

First four: Koechlin, Maykapar, Grovlez, Magnard


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

To my astonishment I have heard at least one piece by every one of the composers on that list. Clearly I have way too much time on my hands. By way of mitigation I am 68 and have been listening to music seriously since I was eleven! So I've had the time.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Just inside my core: Copland, Holst, Martinu, Spohr
Just outside my core: Albeniz, Schoenberg, Stockhausen, Walton


----------



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

bz3 said:


> To respond to my own query,
> 
> My last four in the core repertoire are Janacek, Purcell, Walton, and Telemann.
> 
> My first four out are Paganini, Webern, Bruch, and Taneyev.


I clearly need to lie down in a darkened room for a while ..... I don't understand the instructions (and I'm a native speaker of English!)


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I clearly need to lie down in a darkened room for a while ..... I don't understand the instructions (and I'm a native speaker of English!)


Try to come up with a list of your favorite composers, ranked in order of preference. The last four composers on that list are the "last four in." You don't have to post the whole list - just post the last four composers on that list.

Then, you have to think of four composers who didn't quite make it onto your list, basically like the four runners-up. You like them, but not enough to include them in your list of favorites. They are the "first four out." Hope this makes it clear!


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> I clearly need to lie down in a darkened room for a while ..... I don't understand the instructions (and I'm a native speaker of English!)


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Last Four:
Iannis Xenakis/ Arthur Honegger/ Luciano Berio/Karlheinz Stockhausen

First four:
Verdi, Donizetti/ Bellini and Mozart.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I thought we were supposed to be recommending composers to someone who wants to "learn about classical music." That comes right out of the OP - paragraph 2, sentence 2. I wouldn't necessarily pick my favorites for that purpose. I don't know who my last four in would be, but my first four would be: _Josquin, Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Debussy._ My first four out: _Machaut, __Monteverdi, Mozart, Schoenberg, Stravinsky._ But really they all make the cut.

I know. That was five and five. Four is not a good number. I really screwed up this concept. Blame it on a total inability to understand sports, or on senility


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> I thought we were supposed to be recommending composers to someone who wants to "learn about classical music." That comes right out of the OP - paragraph 2, sentence 2. I wouldn't necessarily pick my favorites for that purpose.


Yes, that is what the OP said, but his guidelines struck me as contradictory and confusing. He asked us to list the last four composers in the core repertoire - but then he said "I'm not asking you to rank any composers at all." That makes no sense to me...how can there be a "last four" if nothing is ranked? So I decided to reinterpret his formulation as: "think of how you would rank the composers in the core repertoire, and list the four composers who come last."


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bettina said:


> Yes, that is what the OP said, but his guidelines struck me as contradictory and confusing. He asked us to list the last four composers in the core repertoire - but then he said "I'm not asking you to rank any composers at all." That makes no sense to me...how can there be a "last four" if nothing is ranked? So I decided to reinterpret his formulation as: "think of how you would rank the composers in the core repertoire, and list the four composers who come last."


That's how I read it.


----------



## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

I have a list I haven't updated for a while, but these were my #61-68 composers:

Last Four In: 61. Richard Strauss, 62. Cesar Franck, 63. Modest Mussorgsky, 64. Gabriel Faure
First Four Out: 65. Arvo Part, 66. CPE Bach, 67. Samuel Barber, 68. Johann Strauss II


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm not participating in this game because I'm...uhhh....scrambling some eggs...on a very low flame...may take a few weeks....


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I'm not participating in this game because I'm...uhhh....scrambling some eggs...on a very low flame...may take a few weeks....


Let me in. Scrambled eggs are better than scrambled brains.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Let me in. Scrambled eggs are better than scrambled brains.


I'm expecting a lot of other TC escapees.

If you sit over there, you can be the first one in and the first one out later.


----------



## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

Have we got a bunch of lawyers trying to bust my chops or what? Even some Europeans managed and I doubt many of them even know what "March Madness" means in the colonies. I included the "do not rank" to indicate that I wasn't asking for a 64 composer listing or even to rank the 8 I asked for - but if it helps you to think of it that way then whatever works!


----------

