# Woodduck's post #121 from: I want to learn non tonal theory?



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I've been trying to discover what Schoenberg himself had to say about the presence of some sort of tonality in his 12-tone music. Over the course of these discussions he hasn't been quoted much, which seems odd considering that he turned out so much detailed and systematic theoretical writing, and that some here seem to know his writings pretty well. As both composer and theoretician he was nothing if not deliberate, thorough, and self-aware. If his 12-tone works are really tonal in some meaningful sense, Schoenberg could hardly have failed to comment on it and to attempt some explanation. But I have never seen any quote from him to substantiate the idea.
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> I know that Schoenberg viewed "tonality" as a property belonging entirely to Western harmonic music between approximately the Baroque and his own time. He considered the Medieval modes to be "devoid of tonality," or at best a confused stab at tonality; in fact he appeared not to understand their tonal organization at all (I was surprised to encounter statements such as "The effect of a fundamental tone was felt, but since no one knew which one it was, all of them were tried" - and "These reveal a remarkable phenomenon: the key of the underlying tonal series of which they are composed is different from the key in which the piece really exists.") He was also, apparently, not very curious about non-Western, and even Western ethnic, musics, with their diverse scales and tonal systems. I imagine he would have regarded them much as he did the church modes, as a primitive form of music which had not attained the logic of common practice harmony.
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