# Felix Mendelssohn



## ChamberNut

Felix Mendelssohn's Octet for strings, Op. 20 in E flat major. He was 16 when it was completed.

Arguably, the greatest chamber music work ever created at someone so young of age.


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## World Violist

Definitely. I've heard it argued that Mendelssohn was a greater prodigy even than Mozart; Mendelssohn was writing far more mature works at the age Mozart was writing less mature ones... it's insane.


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## EricIsAPolarBear

Those piano trios are delightful, especially No. 2 Op. 66.


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## Krummhorn

Mendelssohn's Six Sonatas for Organ are such a wonderful contribution of his to this particular instrument. I'm quite partial to Sonata I.


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## BuddhaBandit

The Octet is also arguably Mendelssohn's greatest work, irrespective of genre. His writing was always very lyrical, especially in his "Songs Without Words" (some of my favorite miniatures) and the "Scotch" symphony.

Of course, if you're partial to the Violin Concerto, feel free to flame me about my comment on the Octet


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## Guest

I agree with you all, I have always found the Oct to be so full of energy, and yes the organ sonatas are are among the best.


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## World Violist

I think I would be hard-put to choose between the violin concerto and the octet. But one cannot deny the greatness of his g minor piano concerto either!


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## opus67

World Violist said:


> But one cannot deny the greatness of his g minor piano concerto either!


Sadly, not many have even heard of his piano concerti.


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## Guest

opus67 said:


> Sadly, not many have even heard of his piano concerti.


I have concerto 1 & 2 by Stephen Hough, they are a bit short @ 19:30 and 21:00, I wonder why?


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## World Violist

I've no clue whatever why they're not widely known of. It's crazy. They're really great pieces, both of them. And yet they're neglected. I mean, the piano was Mendelssohn's main instrument, and yet the most famous concerto is for violin, not remotely related to the piano. Honestly...


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## Guest

IMO the violin concerto is much superior than the piano concertos, and I would say of the piano con the 2nd is the better of the two


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## BuddhaBandit

I agree with Andante... for some reason, Mend's string writing was better than his piano writing. I would imagine this is because his pieces are so lyrical; just look at the "Songs Without Words".


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## World Violist

He was a very good orchestrator too, from what I've heard.


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## opus67

Happy 199th!


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## anon2k2

Even young works such as the String Sinfonias are wonderful pieces. Written while he was a pre-teen! I also think the slow movement of the Violin Concerto in E minor is wistful beyond his years, as if I recall he was about 25 when he wrote that.


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## World Violist

He and Schubert and Mozart are very alike and yet very different in their own ways. Very interesting that they are so similar, whereas people like Brahms and others who lived beyond 40-50 were so diverse...


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## Lexophile

I _absolutely love_ Mendelssohn. I got a CD a long time ago that is Mendelssohn and Brahms, and since then, I've loved both of them. And Anne-Sophe Mutter, but whatever. The Concerto for Violin and Orchestra in E minor is spectacular. It gives me chills listening to it!


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## SPR

I am new to Mendelssohn.... and am just now trying his 6 String Quartets. (OP 12, 13, 44/1, 44/2, 44/3 & 80)









(Cherubini Quartet)

I have been enjoying classical and baroque periods quite a bit, so I hesitated a little on this.... but I am finding them very entertaining. They certainly are going in different structural directions than what I am used to - but are still melodic and flow very well to me. I am finding them very interesting.

They are also quite substantial & dense both in duration and composition... ...each movement is 7...8...9...10...12 minutes long. Nice. There is quite a bit to listen to on these.


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## Guest

Can I just throw into the mix his St Qts + "A Midsummer Nights Dream" so full of wonderful tunes and the Violin Sonatas (Mintz and Ostrovsky)


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## Habib

I haven't heard the full Octet only the scherzo but I know Symphonies 3-5, the Violin Concerto in E Minor and A Midsummer Night's Dream. I read somewhere that because he didn't have any great troubles in his life (compare Beethoven & deafness; Schubert/Schumann & syphillis) his style didn't change much, basically remained the same throughout all of his life. Maybe had he reached say 65-75 his music might not have changed even until then. Apparently he didn't like the music of Berlioz, was antagonistic towards newer trends in music, although I read that the two men were good friends. Even though his music does have a conservative bent, some of his works, like the Italian & Scottish Symphonies, are pretty well wrought examples of the genre. And who could dismiss the delightful fairy music of a Midsummer Night's Dream or the atmospheric poetry of the Fingal's Cave overture? Definitely his works did not match the profundity of say Beethoven or Berlioz, but he had talent to produce some really memorable melodies.


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## Edward Elgar

He was born a genius and died a talent.


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## Guest

He was also responsible for bringing JS Bach back from obscurity,


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## Aramis

*Mendelssohn the wunderkind*

Mendelssohn is considered as one of prodigy childs of classical music. It is said that he wrote many of his great works at incredicibly young age. But is it truth? Sommernachtstraum was written (purportedly) when he was 17, but in fact, he wrote the best parts much later and finished it just before his death. Also the first symphony, written by 15 yeard old Mendelssohn was published in 1831, so it is questionable if he really wrote it when he was 15. What do ya think?


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## emiellucifuge

Well he may or may not have completed the works at a young age but to be able to form the basis for such incredible pieces already then is quite a feat.

Well, actually being fifteen myself Ifind t even more astonishing 

anyway.. thumbs up to mendelssohn at whatever age


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## bdelykleon

Aramis said:


> Mendelssohn is considered as one of prodigy childs of classical music. It is said that he wrote many of his great works at incredicibly young age. But is it truth? Sommernachtstraum was written (purportedly) when he was 17, but in fact, he wrote the best parts much later and finished it just before his death. Also the first symphony, written by 15 yeard old Mendelssohn was published in 1831, so it is questionable if he really wrote it when he was 15. What do ya think?


The octet he composed with 16 with no reworking later, and is major work.


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## Mirror Image

There are plenty of impressive composers who wrote music at a young age that showed a great deal of maturity. The one I'm most impressed with is Langgaard's Symphony No. 1, which he composed when he was 16. Quite a feat for a work that's so extraordinary in it's vision and scope.


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## Weston

bdelykleon said:


> The octet he composed with 16 with no reworking later, and is major work.


I listened to a podcast of annotations for this piece. A good ten minutes into the podcast the lecturer was still talking about the first four measures! There is so much going on in this dense piece. When it gets to the part where the violins are rapidly swapping motifs I had to turn it off, exhausted.

I guess they didn't have video games in Mendelssohn's time -- lucky for us.


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## bassClef

I just saw a TV programme about Alex Prior - he seems pretty gifted.


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## jhar26

bdelykleon said:


> The octet he composed with 16 with no reworking later, and is major work.


And he composed the incredible A Midsummer Night's Dream overture at 17.


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## JAKE WYB

but these bloody prodigies always end up dying young


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## JAKE WYB

i like to think theres no point in rushing your output young when your just going to come to your peak early - best take it slow and let your voice mature.. thats what i keep telling myself anyway...


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## Aramis

I think so too, being some kind of miracle, like dancing monkey in circus doesn't seem too attractive to me. But at the other hand, it's not good to wait too long. Nowdays, young composer learn the most important things after 20, when he's on university etc. Every piece he writes could be better if he would wait days or weeks. But it's pointless to wait until you reach, let's say, 40-50. You will be more mature, but there will be much less passion and feelings in your works - the young man lives and experiences more, his soul is on fire, so his music has more depth and meaning. Beethoven composed his major works as an adult, but I really enjoy his salad days works. He was a real devil back then.


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## emiellucifuge

Alex Prior does sound gifted, there is also a young american called Jay Greenberg that you should look up.


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## Mirror Image

Aramis said:


> I think so too, being some kind of miracle, like dancing monkey in circus doesn't seem too attractive to me. But at the other hand, it's not good to wait too long. Nowdays, young composer learn the most important things after 20, when he's on university etc. Every piece he writes could be better if he would wait days or weeks. But it's pointless to wait until you reach, let's say, 40-50. You will be more mature, but there will be much less passion and feelings in your works - the young man lives and experiences more, his soul is on fire, so his music has more depth and meaning. Beethoven composed his major works as an adult, but I really enjoy his salad days works. He was a real devil back then.


I'm happy to disagree with this. 

As a human being, you never stop learning. You learn everyday of your life. You experience things everyday regardless if you're 14 or 90. To say that a composer's work somehow lacks passion and fire after you reach 40 years old is very a narrow-minded statement.

Yes, it's true that when a musician is younger they do have more energy and perhaps more optimism than that of an older composer, BUT what that younger composer doesn't have is the profound life experiences an older composer has had and continues to have. An older composer has more depth, because they have learned a lot more. When a composer is younger, they tend to throw the "kitchen sink" at a composition. They compose a lot of pieces that have too much going on technically and not enough going on intellectually or emotionally. In many cases, the younger composer writes music that is more emotionally shallow than that of the older composer.

I think it's rather foolish of anyone to think a composer's work lacks passion when true passion NEVER dies. You may feel different things as you get older and your views change on many things, but that passion never leaves you. I think the introspective nature of older works is also much more rewarding in its own way, than a piece of music written by a younger composer that's just "all over the map."


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## Aramis

Yes, sure thing, experience etc. are important stuff and a musical value, but there is much charm in sometimes even naive works. Maybe I'm making a mistake now, but if I would have to guess (because I don't know), I would say that Berlioz was young man writing Symphonie Fantastique. It is the most naive work I've ever heard. And I don't mean music itself, but the idea and story that it tells. Gray-bearded Brahms would probably laugh at him, after hearing this romantic story. 

I think that young man's fire, naive points of view and yet unleashed will to do something are much greatest things than experience and knowledge.


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## Mirror Image

Aramis said:


> Yes, sure thing, experience etc. are important stuff and a musical value, but there is much charm in sometimes even naive works. Maybe I'm making a mistake now, but if I would have to guess (because I don't know), I would say that Berlioz was young man writing Symphonie Fantastique. It is the most naive work I've ever heard. And I don't mean music itself, but the idea and story that it tells. Gray-bearded Brahms would probably laugh at him, after hearing this romantic story.
> 
> I think that young man's fire, naive points of view and yet unleashed will to do something are much greatest things than experience and knowledge.


See my post again, re-read it if you have to, my opinion of this is very clear and to-the-point.

I happily disagree with you.


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## Weston

I think what you are discussing depends a lot on the environment and time period. In general I would agree with Aramis though. The older composer (artist writer, whatever) would tend toward more subtlety -- you often see a progression with painters who early in their careers use vivid flashy colors and later tend toward more understated colors and ideas. 

The same may apply to music. But countering that trend is also the freedom a more established composer -- especially Beethoven and others that came after-- to experiment more than they might have when trying to make a living pleasing the publishers or the nobility. Today may be different, but I think today too many young composers have to try too hard to get noticed, and so they too often go for the weirder flashier gimmicks rather than the passion.

So, passion may never die, but it manifests itself differently as we get older and targets a different audience.


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## Mirror Image

Weston said:


> I think what you are discussing depends a lot on the environment and time period. In general I would agree with Aramis though. The older composer (artist writer, whatever) would tend toward more subtlety -- you often see a progression with painters who early in their careers use vivid flashy colors and later tend toward more understated colors and ideas.
> 
> The same may apply to music. But countering that trend is also the freedom a more established composer -- especially Beethoven and others that came after-- to experiment more than they might have when trying to make a living pleasing the publishers or the nobility. Today may be different, but I think today too many young composers have to try too hard to get noticed, and so they too often go for the weirder flashier gimmicks rather than the passion.
> 
> So, passion may never die, but it manifests itself differently as we get older and targets a different audience.


Good post, well said.


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## Eusebius12

Aramis said:


> Mendelssohn is considered as one of prodigy childs of classical music. It is said that he wrote many of his great works at incredicibly young age. But is it truth? Sommernachtstraum was written (purportedly) when he was 17, but in fact, he wrote the best parts much later and finished it just before his death. Also the first symphony, written by 15 yeard old Mendelssohn was published in 1831, so it is questionable if he really wrote it when he was 15. What do ya think?


Korngold wrote most of his better works when he was a teen. And so, sadly, it seems with Mendelssohn, the man never really recapturing the zest and fire of the boy. The overture to Midsummer Night's Dream, has so much wit and fizz, and the later pieces are infected with the pretty and conventional and complacent Victorianism and Biedermeier spirit that infects so much of his later stuff. Although it fortunately isn't redolent with arid academicism.

Having said that, which sounds like a blisteing critique, I do admire some of the mature works. Few if any fulfill the earlier promise, but I do enjoy Eiljah (despite some sanctimonious and galant moments), the Variations Serieuses, the C minor Trio, the Scottish Symphony (quite powerful at times), Ein Walpurgisnacht, and Fingal's Cave (even Meerestille und Glueckliche Fahrt- I mean who doesn't enjoy a Glueckliche Fahrt on occasion).


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## Delicious Manager

Mendelssohn was arguably the greatest child prodigy composer of all time. His works written as a teenager outstrip for maturity and complexity most of that written by the young Mozart 60 years before.

If we look at the list of major works written by Mendelssohn as a teenager:

String Symphonies Nos 1-7 (12)
Piano Concerto in A minor (13)
String Symphony No 8 (13)
Violin Concerto in D minor (13)
String Symphonies 9-13 (14)
3 Piano Quartets (14-16)
Concerto for 2 Pianos (15)
Sextet in D major (15)
Symphony No 1 (15) [yes, he DID write it in 1824 - it was not so unusual for pieces to be published several years after composition - hence often misleading opus numbers]
String Octet (16)
Overture: _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ (17)
String Quartet No 2 (18) [No 1 was published earlier than No 2, but was written when Mendelssohn was 20]
Overture: _Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage_ (19)

... surely we see a remarkable body of work for one so young. Many commentators have asserted that Mendelssohn never really reproduced the spontaneity and inspiration of the music of his youth in later works. To an extent I would agree with this.

The other composer vying for the title of most prodigious compositional talent would be Erich Wolfgang Korngold, but that's the topic of another thread, surely.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Aramis said:


> Mendelssohn is considered as one of prodigy childs of classical music. It is said that he wrote many of his great works at incredicibly young age. But is it truth? Sommernachtstraum was written (purportedly) when he was 17, but in fact, he wrote the best parts much later and finished it just before his death. Also the first symphony, written by 15 yeard old Mendelssohn was published in 1831, so it is questionable if he really wrote it when he was 15. What do ya think?


If you write these nonsense, its evident that you have absolutely no knowledge of Mendelssohn whatsoever.

Now get yourself a decent recent biography of Mendelssohn, the best one I can offer is by Professor Larry Todd. The Book is called ' Mendelssohn - A life in Music', its about 800 pages, but well worth it, at least after reading this book by the wonderful Mendelssohn scholar, you wouldn't make such erroneous remarks, this is just too silly.

Of course Mendelssohn wrote his first symphony when he was 15, what's the big deal? He was an astonishing composer who had many works under his belt even before this symphony. And the Midsummer night's dream overture was actually written at 16 at the same time of the Octet, and only the finishing touches where completed when he was 17, all scholars agree to this.

I don't know what in the world made you make such wrong remarks, and what was your aim. Do you want to push Mendelssohn away from the title of the greatest musical prodigy in history?

Well you cant. his position is unshakeable, and even Wagner the anti Semitic was wise enough to say the following, rather famously :" Mendelssohn is the greatest specifically musical genius the world has had since Mozart".

And if you look at what Mozart had to offer at the same age as Mendelssohn, you will see that Mozart's output didn't even come anywhere close to Mendelssohn's Incredible works of 13,14,15,16, and 17.

So education and history will do you much good, take up on my offer and purchase this book.


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## Aramis

> If you write these nonsense


I wrote no nonsese. I can't remember from where I took informations about reworking Sommernachtstraum later in his life and date of publishing the symphony (this thread is quite old) but I belive it didn't read it in article from anti-Semitic propaganda newspaper. If you can't stand someone putting greatness of Mendelssohn for debate (there was nothing vicious in my post, I have no interest in abating his genius) it's your problem.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Aramis said:


> I wrote no nonsese. I can't remember from where I took informations about reworking Sommernachtstraum later in his life and date of publishing the symphony (this thread is quite old) but I belive it didn't read it in article from anti-Semitic propaganda newspaper. If you can't stand someone putting greatness of Mendelssohn for debate (there was nothing vicious in my post, I have no interest in abating his genius) it's your problem.


Your source was ignorant.

He didn't rework the Overture but later on Added More pieces at the request of the Prussian King, that's all. But the Overture itself was completed at 17, that's obvious and not a matter of any argument or disagreement.

The first symphony was completed at 15, that's clear.

Perhaps its not your fault, but this dude who gave this info, didn't know what he was talking about, and that's obvious too.

Mendelssohn's Great prodigious abilities are not a matter of any disagreement or controversy. Even Schmucks like Wagner, had to read the hand on the wall and tell it as it was, whether they liked it or not.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

*Felix Mendelssohn was born in Hamburg, on February 3rd, 1809, the son of Leah Salomon, and Abraham Mendelssohn, a wealthy banker, and the grandson of Jewish Rabbi and philosopher Moses Mendelssohn. Being born in a family of well-to-do intellectuals certainly had its advantages, providing the ideal cultural environment for the artistic and precocious young Felix. In addition to receiving a good education, Felix and his family traveled around Europe.

The move to Berlin proved to be beneficial for young Felix, who had received prior musical instruction from his sister Fanny, as it was there he studied the piano under Ludwig Berger and composition with Karl. F. Zelter. Visiting friends of the family were also a positive influence on the Mendelssohn children, as most of them were intellectuals who were involved in the arts and other cultural activities. From a young age, Felix Mendelssohn showed the true talent of a prodigy, playing both the piano and the violin, painting, and being gifted in languages.

Felix traveled to Paris to study the works of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Johann Sebastian Bach with his sister Fanny. Truly inspired by the masters, particularly Bach, he composed eleven symphonies, five operas, and many other pieces for the piano. This was only the beginning for the young musical genius, who impressed audiences and artists alike with his precocious talent.

In 1821, Zelter took his 12 year-old student to visit German poet Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. The visit was most important to the young Mendelssohn, who remained at the 72 year-old writer's home for over two weeks. Goethe was fascinated by the gifted young man, and the two would later correspond via a series of letters. Later, when Goethe heard Mendelssohn's B minor pianoforte quartet, he showed such appreciation that the young composer dedicated the piece to him.

When Felix Mendelssohn was 16, he composed his Octet for Strings in E flat major, Op. 20, which wasn't just impressive because of its composer's age, but because it was the one of the first works of its kind. Mendelssohn's piece featured an ingenious interplay between two distinct string quartets.

In addition to the literary works of Goethe, Mendelssohn found inspiration in the works of English playwright William Shakespeare. At the age of seventeen, he composed the overture to "A Midsummer Night's Dream Opus 21", based on the Bard's comedic play. The piece featured lush orchestration, and is considered one of the most beautiful works of the Romantic period of Classical music.

From 1826 to 1829, Mendelssohn studied at Berlin University. It was then he decided on music as his chosen profession.

During the years that followed, Mendelssohn traveled and performed all over Europe, discovering England, Scotland, Italy and France. In 1832, Mendelssohn presented his magnificent "Hebrides Overture", as well as other important works, in London, a city where he greatly enjoyed performing his works. In 1833, he took on the post of conductor at Düsseldorf, giving concert performances of Handel's "Messiah" among others. That same year, he composed many of his own vocal works, including "Lord, Have Mercy Upon Us,", and the Opera, "Trala. A frischer Bua bin i", as well as the "Italian Symphony".

At the age of 26, Mendelssohn moved to Leipzig and became conductor of the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, performing works by Bach and Beethoven among others; at the time, there was little interest in Bach's music, but Mendelssohn changed all that, using his own popularity and the four hundred singers and soloists of the Singakademie to help renew interest in the great composer's work. Earlier, in 1829, Mendelssohn had made his debut as a Maestro, being the first to conduct Bach's "St. Matthew Passion" since the composer's death in 1750, and more importantly, 100 years after Bach's own premiere performance of the work. Mendelssohn performed the piece.

In 1832, Mendelssohn married Cécile Jeanrenaud, the daughter of a Protestant clergyman. It was a happy marriage, and they had five children, Carl, Marie, Paul, Felix and Lilli. Over the years that followed, Mendelssohn was very prolific, and in addition to numerous composition, he gave several successful performances of his work, and those of other great composers. Mendelssohn composed several works for the piano, which was highly popular at the time; but he also wrote for many different combinations of instruments and voices.

In 1842, Mendelssohn performed private concerts for Prince Albert and Queen Victoria, who were both strong supporters of his work. A year later, Mendelssohn founded and directed the Leipzig Conservatory, where he also taught when his busy schedule permitted it. Despite being a generally happy and pleasant individual, Mendelssohn was sometimes a little too strict with his pupils; this was perhaps due to the fact that he was so passionate about music, and had a difficult time listening to the beginners' mistakes of his pupils. Nonetheless, the Conservatory remained one of the most prestigious music institutions in Germany for half a century.

In addition to his post at the Conservatory, Mendelssohn was named director of the Music Section of the Academy of Arts in Berlin by King Frederick of Prussia, but this appointment wasn't entirely pleasing for Mendelssohn, who was often asked to compose on demand. He was left with little time for his own work, but he still managed to compose such masterpieces as the Ruy Blas overture, stage music for Shakespeare's " A Midsummer Night's Dream", of which the now world-famous "Wedding March" was a part of, and "The Scottish Symphony", the third of the five symphonies he composed during his lifetime.

Felix Mendelssohn was very close to his family; from his sister Fanny to his father, to his own wife and children, and he cherished the moments spent with them. When his father died in 1835, Mendelssohn felt he had lost his best friend. Seven years later, his mother died, adding to the tragedy, but the worst was yet to come; following a Christmas family reunion, his sister Fanny suffered a stroke while rehearsing for a Sunday concert. She died on May 14th, 1847. Felix Mendelssohn is said to have screamed and fainted upon hearing the sad news, devastated by the loss. Needless to say, Mendelssohn's mood did not improve following Fanny's death, and he himself suffered two strokes, the last of which killed him on November 4th, 1847. He was 38 years old. He was buried alongside his sister in in the cemetery of Holy Cross Church in Berlin.

While most of his life was spent in happiness, the final years of his life saw mounting grief and tragedy; however, this did not deter him from composing, and throughout the hardships he maintained the same degree of inspiration and the same quality of work, despite his intensely busy schedule. Some critics may argue that he would have been another Bach or Mozart if he had suffered more in life, as the "tortured artist" cliché dictates. However, it is interesting to note that even in death, there were more tragic incidents which marred Mendelssohn's reputation. Nearly a hundred years after his death, the Nazis tried to discredit him, taking down his statue in Leipzig, and even going as far as forbidding the study and performance of his music.

Of course, none of their efforts to silence the voice of genius had any success, and Mendelssohn is now considered the 19th century equivalent of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Most critics agree that Mendelssohn's most vibrant contributions were in the choral and organ music genres, which was probably the result of his deep admiration for Bach and Handel. Mendelssohn will remain the most successful composer of his time, but more importantly, one of the most gifted and talented, surely deserving a place alongside greats such as Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven, in the pantheon of musical Giants.*

My 5 favorite works of Mendelssohn

Overture to a Midsummer Night's Dream

Elijah

The Hebrides Overture

Violin Concerto In E minor

Piano Concerto In E minor No. 3 ( A rather newly discovered work of Mendelssohn), astonishing concerto, totally amazing.

Regards,

Saul


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## Olias

I had not heard of the discovery of a third PC. When in Mendelssohn's life was it composed?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

It was composed about the same time when he was working on his famous Violin concerto in E minor, therefore this is Mendelssohn's Mature style.

This concerto puts Liszt and Rachmaninov's concertos to shame, totally unbelievably astonishing technique and virtuosity, immense passion and amazing control.

You can purchase the Cd here:

http://www.amazon.com/Mendelssohn-Piano-Concerto-Schumann-Konzertsatz/dp/B000001SGC

Or an MP3 Album Here:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=13715


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## Olias

Thanks. I will check this out ASAP.


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## ScipioAfricanus




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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ScipioAfricanus said:


>


Thanks for this.

But the person who posted this should worry about copyrights issues, because this is the only recording that was ever made for this concerto.

Anyways, I purchased the Mp3 album today, because my Cd was worn out and some tracks didn't play so smoothly.

10 dollars for the album, its really worth it, you can also upload it to your Itunes if you like.

BTW, the second movement is not on Youtube, that's a shame because its really beautiful, so if you want to listen I guess you must purchase it.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Here's another recording of the concerto...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mendelssohn-Piano-Concerto-Roberto-Prosseda/dp/B002GJ3MRG


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## Aramis

His piano concertos and piano music in general was always what I didn't like about him - unless the piano was part of chamber ensamble (great piano trios). Frist of all, too much "brilliance" in it + piano requires specific skill from composers (possibly even more than any other instruments) and I don't find Mendelssohn's piano skill to be equal or even near to his skill for orchestral/chamber/possibly also vocal music.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Aramis said:


> His piano concertos and piano music in general was always what I didn't like about him - unless the piano was part of chamber ensamble (great piano trios). Frist of all, too much "brilliance" in it + piano requires specific skill from composers (possibly even more than any other instruments) and I don't find Mendelssohn's piano skill to be equal or even near to his skill for orchestral/chamber/possibly also vocal music.


That's an honest opinion, nothing wrong with that, by I strongly disagree with you.


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## ScipioAfricanus

For what it is worth, I rate Mendelssohn's song without words very highly. Mendelssohn is one of those composers who has great technical ability and class. His music in no way offends.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ScipioAfricanus said:


> For what it is worth, I rate Mendelssohn's song without words very highly. Mendelssohn is one of those composers who has great technical ability and class. His music in no way offends.


And I should add that there is much more to Mendelssohn's piano music then his Songs without words. There are the fantasis, scherzos, preludes and fugues, caprices variations and much more.


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## Art Rock

The main violin concerto, the Scottish symphony and the Hebrides Overture would make my top 10 in their respective categories.


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## jurianbai

His violin concerto is the first in the genre that make me interested, the cliche about the violin come right from the first note is really did it for me. Then again I like to remind his six string quartets cycle + 1 p.h. string quartet that I really appreciate. Mendelssohn really melodious yet more simple than Schubert or Beety. Love his symphony no.4 and 5 as well.


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## Lexophile

I hate to do this, but I must, being the nerdy Mendelssohnian I am. Felix and Cécile were wed in March of 1838, not 1832. =]

Okay, now, I have a question. My sincere apologies if this isn't in the right place, but I didn't know where else to put it. Does anyone on this forum know the name of the neurological disorder that ran in the Mendelssohn family? I know they called it 'Moses brain', but I was wondering if there was an actual scientific name for it, or if it's even recognised as a legit disease. It could be that it just ran in their family and doesn't exist anywhere else. Just curious! Anything would help. Thank you all!


----------



## elgar's ghost

Does anyone rate Mendelssohn's lieder? It's about the only genre of his which has eluded me so far - I have read that they are a something of a mixed bunch quality-wise so I haven't felt convinced enough to delve in.


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## Lexophile

Hi there!

I highly suggest investing some time in the Lieder. They are beautiful pieces. They aren't anything grandiose, and even Mendelssohn himself said that he was not top-notch at composing piano pieces. Despite this, many of them are darling, well crafted salon pieces.

Here is a neat recording you may enjoy. 





 This is my favourite lied.

Also, I highly recommend the album the French pianist Bertrand Chamayou released a while back. He did an album entirely of Mendelssohn's solo piano music, including Lieder, caprices, and études. I'm partial to him because he is my favourite pianist, but it's a great recording.

Hope you enjoy the Lieder! If you generally like Mendelssohn, you probably will. =D


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## elgar's ghost

Thanks, Lex, but I was thinking of his actual songs WITH words rather than the sets of solo piano works that contain the word 'Lieder' in the title. 

I do like these anyway, by the way!


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## Lexophile

Oh! Ha, I am mistaken. So just Lieder, not Lieder ohne Worte. So like the poem settings? On Wings of Song and Suleika, etc? In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Mendelssohn. XD So, either way, I hope you enjoy what you find! =D


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## Art Rock

I have two CD's of his Lieder, one with an aging Fischer-Dieskau and another by a soprano (can't access my collection right now, maybe Price or Soderstrom). Good romantic music, although not of the top quality of say Schubert, Schumann and Wolf. On par with Weber, Loewe or Chopin.


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## science

How about the string quartets?


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## tahnak

*Mendelssohn's piano rarities*

I heard two rare compositions of Felix Bartholdy Mendelssohn yesterday and wanted to share my views here. One was the `Capriccio Brilliant' .Op. 22 and the other was the Concerto for Two Pianos in E Major.
This was a 1954 recording with pianists Orazio Frugoni and Eduard Mrazek with the Vienna Pro Musica Symphony under Hans Swarowsky.
Hans Swarowsky was the mentor of Zubin Mehta who studied conducting under him.
This was the first time I heard both the compositions.
On first hearing, both the compositions would seem less inspired . They come out of the standard romantic repertoire and I would rate them below average for content.
Yet , for Mendelssohn enthusiasts, the music is presentable and well decorated.
Mendelssohn had not made any effort to publish the E Major concerto for two pianos. It was performed out of his manuscripts. Even Mendelssohn felt that their classicism would have less appeal. They were originally written to be performed by his sister Fanny and himself with a small chamber orchestra in his own home. He probably intended to revise it some day but never got around.
The Capriccio Brilliant is a one movement Allegro con Fuoco with a slow introduction. It has verve and enthusiam in its writing but yet again both these pieces and their musical content were not written with deep spiritual inspiration.


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## CaptainAzure

ScipioAfricanus said:


> For what it is worth, I rate Mendelssohn's song without words very highly. Mendelssohn is one of those composers who has great technical ability and class. His music in no way offends.


Particularly Venetian Gondola


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## Sonata

I purchased a Mendelssohn mp3 album on a whim last month, and I am so glad that I did. I find his work highly enjoyable.


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## violadude

Felix Mendelssohn-

Pieces I have by Mendelssohn

The 13 String Symphonies

As you can see, I haven't heard a whole lot of Mendelssohn, but he is certainly a good composer. He's not one of my favorites but I enjoy listening to these string symphonies from time to time. They are amazing compositions for someone so young. Mendelssohn had a prodigious talent that perhaps rivaled Mozart. His music, like Mozarts, is very melodic and effortless sounding. The string symphonies are quite attractive, and very orderly if you are looking for some good ole' sonata form pieces.


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## Guest

IMO He was more mature and I place him way above WAMy


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## clavichorder

I really like the Hunting Song from Songs Without Words. I'm investigating other "songs".


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## clavichorder

Edward Elgar said:


> He was born a genius and died a talent.


Interesting statement.


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## Polednice

clavichorder said:


> I really like the Hunting Song from Songs Without Words. I'm investigating other "songs".


I can't remember it's nickname, but the Op. 30, No. 2 was one of the first pieces I ever heard and I still love it.


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## clavichorder

Polednice said:


> I can't remember it's nickname, but the Op. 30, No. 2 was one of the first pieces I ever heard and I still love it.


I'm liking it a lot.


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## martijn

Another underrated composer. That dumb opinion of late 19th century and early 20th century still harms poor Mendelssohn. It all started with Wagner's caustic comments about Mendelssohn. And why so? Wagner admired Mendelssohn, called him "the greatest purely musical talent since Mozart" (yes, Beethoven!), but well, he sent his first symphony to Mendelssohn, who lost it. Has this incident caused for more than a century of injustice towards Mendelssohn's genius?

Starting with his octet: it's a wonderful work, but I always feel it's relatively overrated, it is always the splendid octet _written by a teenager_. He is often called a greater child prodigy than Mozart. His work as a teenager is definitely better than Mozart at the same age, but people tend to forget that young Mendelssohn grew up with Mozart, Bach, and later, Beethoven. Mozart didn't have such great examples to learn from in his youth. So the comparison is a bit misleading.

Someone remarked "born as a genius, died as a talent". The statement sounds nice, but it is really no more than a popular misgiving. Because what to say about his final string quartet? It's a masterpiece, full of passion and craftsmanship. And what about his second piano trio (study that first movement and be amazed)? Some parts of his greatest work, the violin concerto, the greatest violin concert ever written, were also finished relatively late in his live.

Other must haves: the first piano trio, Midsummernight's dream, the string quartets, the Hebrides ouverture, Elijah, the piano concertos. And for those idiots who still think he's superficial: listen to the impressive Variations Serieuses.


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## Vesteralen

I was just listening again to the "Scottish" symphony (#3, but really his last?) this weekend and I had to marvel at it. I don't know of any other symphony with such a beautiful quality from the very first note to the last. It may not move me to elevated or profound thoughts like some other works do, but it's hard to imagine another that gives me more enjoyment in the pure aural splendor of it.


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## martijn

One of his best works indeed. It also shows what a master of orchestration Mendelssohn was. And he is more of an innovator than people think, like the violin concerto, it's really original in form.


----------



## Polednice

Vesteralen said:


> I was just listening again to the "Scottish" symphony (#3, but really his last?) this weekend and I had to marvel at it. I don't know of any other symphony with such a beautiful quality from the very first note to the last. It may not move me to elevated or profound thoughts like some other works do, but it's hard to imagine another that gives me more enjoyment in the pure aural splendor of it.


I've always adored his Scottish symphony, and I find it transports me in the way you'd imagine much more than his _Hebrides_ Overture. It has such wonderful introspective melancholy tempered by playfulness.


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## martijn

Just relistened to the Hebrides ouverture at maximum volume, I think I'm gonna go out and run and jump like a fool now.


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## Sonata

I listened to the piano concerto in E major for two pianos for just the second time tonight. This piece is so enjoyable to listen to, especially the first two movements. So far it is one of my favorite works by him.


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## Sonata

What string symphonies do some of you find the most enjoyable? I have only heard 9 and 2 so far.


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## mtmailey

I went to a website to download a rare sonata for viola and piano it sounded nice,i just ordred his string quartets this week.


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## Ravndal

I just heard his piano concerto in g minor, for the first time. And it's so good, that i wonder why i haven't heard it before?


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## Krisena

sonata said:


> what string symphonies do some of you find the most enjoyable? I have only heard 9 and 2 so far.


ELEVEN IS AWESOME.

caps.


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## mtmailey

I like the octet also but he has also a nice sextet for piano & strings the piano trio number one is my favorites.I also like the 5 full orchestral symphonies,violin concerto & midsummer night dream.


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## Sonata

there's a complete set of the string symphonies on BIS label for a 9 dollar download on amazon. I'm seriously considering this as I am a Mendelssohn nut. My favorite of his works though are his piano concertos.


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## Xaltotun

I still think that Mendelssohn is superficial, but I'm starting to like him more and more. His music is very enjoyable and well-crafted, like quality ice cream. And you'd be a fool not to like quality ice cream! Hebrides, Midsummer Night's Dream, Symphonies 3 and 5 (haven't heard #4 yet) all put me in a good and positive mood.


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## Sonata

Quality ice cream...nice comparison! And I agree, his music just makes me content. Does it make me think about the deep mysteries of life? Nope, and I don't need it to.


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## Vesteralen

At the risk of repeating myself - I really enjoyed getting to know the rarely heard Sextet. Critics say it isn't of the highest quality through all four movements, but I don't care - it has some truly wonderful moments.


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## Krisena

I listened to the sextet the other day, and didn't find it very satisfying, unfortunately. Maybe I had too high expectiations?

Another rare work that I find pretty stunning is the Double Piano Concerto in Ab major. Check it out. (He's also got a double concerto in E major, but I haven't listened to it too much yet.)


----------



## Hausmusik

Xaltotun said:


> I still think that Mendelssohn is superficial, but I'm starting to like him more and more. His music is very enjoyable and well-crafted, like quality ice cream. And you'd be a fool not to like quality ice cream! Hebrides, Midsummer Night's Dream, Symphonies 3 and 5 (haven't heard #4 yet) all put me in a good and positive mood.


Doesn't sound like you've ventured into the chamber music much, from that list. Get on that!


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## moody

What about his cantata "Die Erste Walpurgisnacht" based on a Goethe poem about pagan rituals in the Herz mountains ?

Although Scots won't like it the symphony is named Scotch and not Scottish.


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## Bas

I honestly don't know a single work of Mendelson that I don't like, indeed. He was brilliant. I have read in a book somewhere that some believed that if he would have become elder he could have been greater then Beethoven. He probably could have been. The octet, together with the Italienische Symphony are my favourites.


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## elgar's ghost

moody said:


> What about his cantata "Die Erste Walpurgisnacht" based on a Goethe poem about pagan rituals in the Herz mountains ?


I like this work not only musically (although some experts denigrate it as being second-tier Mendelssohn) but also because the story is actually more light-hearted than I originally imagined - the demonic night-time ritual of the druids was not based on their actual beliefs but actually set up a as a joke in order to put the wind up the misery-monger Christian authorities (who have banned the established pagan celebration of May Day) and their narrow-minded, easily-manipulated flock. Quite a clever little work.


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## Sonata

I have his boxed set of complete sacred music. I've only listened to the eight choral cantatas from that set so far, but of those I really enjoy all except the first. I would love to get Brilliant's boxed set of complete chamber music as well, but it's hard to find now, and where I can find it, it's more than I care to spend. I should have just shelled out for the complete 40 CD "Mendelssohn Portrait" but now I have so much of his stuff, it's senseless, so I'm picking up works here and there individually.


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## elgar's ghost

Sonata said:


> I have his boxed set of complete sacred music. I've only listened to the eight choral cantatas from that set so far, but of those I really enjoy all except the first. I would love to get Brilliant's boxed set of complete chamber music as well, but it's hard to find now, and where I can find it, it's more than I care to spend. I should have just shelled out for the complete 40 CD "Mendelssohn Portrait" but now I have so much of his stuff, it's senseless, so I'm picking up works here and there individually.


What are your main gaps? I'll try and do a bit of bargain-hunting if you like.


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## Sonata

*Elgar*: that is very kind 

I have one discs' worth of the songs without words, I've considered getting the full Daniel Barenboim set in the future. Unless there is another version that someone recommends.

I'm lacking the clarinet chamber music, which I'd eventually like to have. I also am missing the piano sextet. Actually in general my biggest gaps are in the chamber music. (other than the string quintets, octet, and piano trios.) I'm not sure what other chamber music is available and recommended.

I lack the organ music (by choice, I tried it and it wasn't my thing), and the lieder. The latter I could go with or without. I know it's not "essential" music, but if anyone has any opinions on whether it's worth getting I'd be happy to know!


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## Jared

Sonata said:


> *Elgar*: that is very kind
> 
> I have one discs' worth of the songs without words, I've considered getting the full Daniel Barenboim set in the future. Unless there is another version that someone recommends.
> 
> I'm lacking the clarinet chamber music, which I'd eventually like to have. I also am missing the piano sextet. Actually in general my biggest gaps are in the chamber music. (other than the string quintets, octet, and piano trios.) I'm not sure what other chamber music is available and recommended.
> 
> I lack the organ music (by choice, I tried it and it wasn't my thing), and the lieder. The latter I could go with or without. I know it's not "essential" music, but if anyone has any opinions on whether it's worth getting I'd be happy to know!


Sonata, I personally really like the 2CD 'Songs w/o Words' by Barenboim and think you should consider it if you like solo piano music.

Concerning his chamber music, a complete set of String Quartets is vital, one of the finest being:










don't forget the Cello & Violin Sonatas:

















whilst I also recommend this excellent recording of less usual versions of both VC & Octet by the brilliant Daniel Hope:










Organ music isn't my thing, either...


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## elgar's ghost

No problem - I can't help you with the early chamber music such as the clarinet sonata, the viola sonata, two violin sonatas, the four piano quartets and the sextet (which has an artificially high op. no. as you may well know) but I can suggest the following:

Complete String Quartets - Melos Quartet on DG or Talich Quartet on Calliope. Sadly, both sets are a bit pricey these days but the recording of the complete quartets by the young and highly-touted Pacifica Quartet might be worth thinking about - this set is competitively priced as a new French import on the Amazon UK marketplace. Otherwise, the Quatour Ysaye set on Decca is quite cheap on Amazon US marketplace for a new copy.

2 x Cello Sonatas (c/w Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata) - Claret/Planes on Musique d'abord. Again, a bit pricey these days but as an alternative the Naxos disc is a real bargain and has the bonus of the Variations Concertantes for piano and cello, as does the Lester/Tomes disc on Hyperion's Helos budget outlet which is very reasonably priced on the Amazon UK marketplace for a new copy.

One thing I can't second-guess is where you are - obviously extra postage comes into play depending on who you order from in relation to where you live. Anyway, I hope this helps to narrow things down a bit.


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## Jared

elgars ghost said:


> Complete String Quartets - Melos Quartet on DG or Talich Quartet on Calliope. Sadly, both sets are a bit pricey these days but the recording of the complete quartets by the young and highly-touted Pacifica Quartet might be worth thinking about - this set is competitively priced as a new French import on the Amazon UK marketplace. Otherwise, the Quatour Ysaye set on Decca is quite cheap on Amazon US marketplace for a new copy.


That's interesting. I've dug out the PG and no mention of the Melos (maybe too long out of print?) but the Talich & Henschel sets both get 3 stars and warm write-ups, although they pick up on the sound being a little too close. Surprisingly, Gramophone seems to go with the Emersons for 1st choice (?!) with the Henschel 2nd....


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## Pizzicato

Krisena said:


> Another rare work that I find pretty stunning is the Double Piano Concerto in Ab major. Check it out.)


Dat Opening


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## neoshredder

Great Composer. Just getting into him now. What took so long?


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## Sonata

CoAG is getting passionate about Brahms, and you're digging Mendelssohn. I likey!!!!


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## Op.123

There is nothing that matches his violin concerto


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## Feathers

Just wanted to share the beautiful Overture to St. Paul.


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## Avey

Burroughs said:


> There is nothing that matches his violin concerto


The rest of his work.


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## Novelette

neoshredder said:


> Great Composer. Just getting into him now. What took so long?


I was a late warming to Mendelssohn too. It's hard to believe that I did so comparatively well, considering what I was missing in those years. =\


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## xMAESTROx

I go to heaven whenever Mendelssohn's octet is played... I'm playing it this year, also, so I'm looking forward to that!

Not to be cliche, but his 4th Symphony is fantastic.


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## Musician

Even though Mendelssohn's Octet is a world class masterpiece, its not one of my favorite piece by him. I think that his Overtures, Symphonies, and Piano works are superior.


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## Bas

I'd also recommend the piano sextet!






This is not a really good video, but there are not many of this work on youtube...


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## mstar

Anyone here for "Songs without Words?" I've got the entire first book, along with several other ones....


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## Vesteralen

I admit my mind can sometimes be distracted when I'm listening to Mendelssohn, but I'm never really bored. I don't think I've ever turned off a Mendelssohn LP or a CD before the end. Even his juvenilia are engaging. The Concerto for Piano and Violin I was listening to a few minutes ago was really entertaining.


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## JCarmel

ME, me, me!!!!!...& the score to follow-along-to, if the mood takes me....which it rarely does!


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## Skilmarilion

mstar said:


> Anyone here for "Songs without Words?" I've got the entire first book, along with several other ones....


Yes, yes. 

It's almost ridiculous to single out any one, but #2 from Book 6 with its grace and tenderness is possibly my favourite.


----------



## Centropolis

I've just listened to his violin concerto for the second time. I just absolutely love the first movement.


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## senza sordino

Centropolis said:


> I've just listened to his violin concerto for the second time. I just absolutely love the first movement.


Possibly my favourite concerto. A fantastic piece, I have two recordings of it: Vengerov and Heifetz. So lyrical, challenging, and heartfelt. I come back to it frequently, it's my old friend. One day, I'm going to learn to play it myself.


----------



## Sonata

Haven't listened to Mendelssohn in months. I need to rectify that this evening!


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## mstar

I've recently fallen in love with his *Octet,* though today I also listened to his *Piano Trio No. 1*.... Both are wonderful!!

@Sonata, have you listened to the Piano Trio No. 1? I think the first movement especially is wonderful, I wonder how you'd like it?


----------



## Feathers

I realized that people rarely mention Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 2 (or "that random other choral symphony somewhere between Beethoven and Mahler"). I think that if we listen to it as a ceremonial piece with an extended instrumental introduction instead of a Romantic Symphony attempting to extend a Beethovenian choral finale, it is a great piece that is unjustly ignored and deserves to be heard more imo.



Skilmarilion said:


> Yes, yes.
> 
> It's almost ridiculous to single out any one, but #2 from Book 6 with its grace and tenderness is possibly my favourite.


That one was one of my favourites as a kid and continues to be one of my favourite small-scale piano works! I love the how a listener can hear both optimism and a touch of melancholy at the same time.


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## hpowders

My favorite Mendelssohn is the 2 piano trios. Superb chamber music!


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## mtmailey

WELL he has 5 great symphonies for full orchestra,violin concerto,midsummer nights dream & i love the WAR MARCH OF THE PRIESTS.


----------



## Avey

hpowders said:


> My favorite Mendelssohn is the 2 piano trios. Superb chamber music!


Those two trios are so perfect, if you can qualify that word. And when I think *Mendelssohn*, I think certain feelings, sounds, a particular ambiance, and I always fall back on those two pieces.

There's a lot of religious, philosophical, spiritual undertones with the number three, and the manner in which these two works illustrate a comfort, balance, resolve, peace and promise, I dare say he saw some significance in the setting of three.


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## hpowders

Avey said:


> Those two trios are so perfect, if you can qualify that word. And when I think *Mendelssohn*, I think certain feelings, sounds, a particular ambiance, and I always fall back on those two pieces.
> 
> There's a lot of religious, philosophical, spiritual undertones with the number three, and the manner in which these two works illustrate a comfort, balance, resolve, peace and promise, I dare say he saw some significance in the setting of three.


The first one is so lilting, like a fresh breeze. The second while more dramatic is also terrific.

I have 3 different performances. The Israel Piano Trio is my favorite. Just took it out. Ready to go for tomorrow!


----------



## Itullian

The Scottish symphony is an all time favorite.
And his wonderful overtures.


----------



## Ravndal

Spent the evening collecting all mendelssohn's piano ouvre in to a spotify playlist. So much gold!


----------



## hpowders

Was swept away by the complete Mendelssohn Quartets played by the Emerson Quartet.

Passionate, terrific music!


----------



## Skilmarilion

For me, one of the most utterly fantastic pieces of chamber music:


----------



## Vaneyes

A re-discovered Mendelssohn song.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27253932


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## Blake

He was crazy good. A romantic that wasn't quite so romantic.


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## scratchgolf

Indeed. I own nearly everything he ever wrote and it's a wonderful catalog. His music rarely grabs my immediately but pieces like Symphonies 3 and 4 and the string quartets slowly have worked their way into my regular rotation. Now the Octet, that's in instant grabber for sure. Mendelssohn, Schumann, and Dvorak have allowed me to rest Beethoven, Schubert, and Bach before familiarity breeds contempt. Something I could never seem to do with popular music.


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## Blake

Yea, Mendelssohn is much more Classical and detached than many of his contemporaries. He was without a doubt a prodigy. Some say one to rival Mozart. That's quite a big statement....

As for Schumann... he has become one of my all-time favorites. I adore his music.


----------



## Brad

I'm a pianist and have never learned a piece nearly as fast as I have Mendelssohn's first Lied ohne worte in E major, and enjoying the heck out of it along the way. I started on it yesterday and I feel comfortable enough with it to play it at my recital in two weeks. awesome stuff.


----------



## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> Was swept away by the complete Mendelssohn Quartets played by the Emerson Quartet.
> 
> Passionate, terrific music!


That could be said of pretty much all of Mendelssohn's chamber music, imo. I especially like his quartets and piano trios, myself.


----------



## hpowders

Lukecash12 said:


> That could be said of pretty much all of Mendelssohn's chamber music, imo. I especially like his quartets and piano trios, myself.


Yes. I love the two piano trios.


----------



## hpowders

To me, Mendelssohn's final quartet in f minor, Opus 80, written while he was grieving the death of his beloved sister Fanny, is the single greatest string quartet ever written. At least as great as any of the Beethoven quartets. It is quite simply Mendelssohn on a uniquely inspired exalted plane. Written in 1847, he was soon to die himself as his grief completely consumed him.

Beloved brother and sister, Fanny and Felix, both dead in 1847 and both buried side by side in a Berlin churchyard.


----------



## Blake

Check out his string symphonies if you really want to see how prodigious he was as a young lad.


----------



## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> To me, Mendelssohn's final quartet in f minor, Opus 80, written while he was grieving the death of his beloved sister Fanny, is the single greatest string quartet ever written. At least as great as any of the Beethoven quartets. It is quite simply Mendelssohn on a uniquely inspired exalted plane. Written in 1847, he was soon to die himself as his grief completely consumed him.
> 
> Beloved brother and sister, Fanny and Felix, both dead in 1847 and both buried side by side in a Berlin churchyard.


Yes, when that happened it completely destroyed him and his career. They were closer than most siblings, traveling the world together. His is quite a story considering that no one expected him to do what he did, becoming an international success and taking up a post at a conservatory, he was quite the optimist. I guess that gives us as much perspective as we can hope to have on how close he was to Fanny, that when she died he just gave up.


----------



## Vaneyes

Lukecash12 said:


> Yes, when that happened it completely destroyed him and his career. They were closer than most siblings, traveling the world together. His is quite a story considering that no one expected him to do what he did, becoming an international success and taking up a post at a conservatory, he was quite the optimist. I guess that gives us as much perspective as we can hope to have on how close he was to Fanny, that when she died he just gave up.


Died of a broken heart, like Tom Morris Jr.


----------



## hpowders

Imagine 2 siblings dying together in the same year. Horrible that as "hidden" Jews they were buried in a Berlin churchyard.

Showed antisemitism was alive and well in the Germany of 1847.


----------



## science

So, what are the best recordings of the octet?


----------



## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> Imagine 2 siblings dying together in the same year. Horrible that as "hidden" Jews they were buried in a Berlin churchyard.
> 
> Showed antisemitism was alive and well in the Germany of 1847.


Weren't they converted?


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Lukecash12 said:


> Weren't they converted?


Mendelssohn was converted, I'm pretty sure. He was also very devout.


----------



## hpowders

Lukecash12 said:


> Weren't they converted?


I think his family converted before him. Meanwhile some of his music sounds Jewish to me. Listen to the very end of the first movement of his last string quartet, the incomparable f minor and also the first movement of his violin concerto. It's in his blood.


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## hpowders

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Mendelssohn was converted, I'm pretty sure. He was also very devout.


Like I said, I believe his family converted before him. In those days it was safer to remain Christian.


----------



## Vaneyes

science said:


> So, what are the best recordings of the octet?


Nash Ens., live at Wigmore 2005.


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## Bellinilover

I think we should be wary of assuming that past societies were all so antisemitic -- in contrast to our own, much more "enlightened" society. As for Mendelssohn, I'd always understood that he was pretty devoted to his church; I don't get the sense that he stayed Christian merely out of fear or shame.

My favorite BBC adaptation, DANIEL DERONDA, uses "On Wings of Song" (starting at 3:50):






And this is one of my favorite pieces of non-operatic music ever:


----------



## hpowders

Bellinilover said:


> I think we should be wary of assuming that past societies were all so antisemitic -- in contrast to our own, much more "enlightened" society. As for Mendelssohn, I'd always understood that he was pretty devoted to his church; I don't get the sense that he stayed Christian merely out of fear or shame.
> 
> My favorite BBC adaptation, DANIEL DERONDA, uses "On Wings of Song" (starting at 3:50):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is one of my favorite pieces of non-operatic music ever:


Oh really now. "The pressure on Jews of substantial cultural attainments to renounce their Judaism, a pressure that came from the wider German milieu, was so great that, during the middle part of the nineteenth century, two-thirds of culturally prominant Jews are estimated to have converted to Christianity.....Such was the inhospitableness of Germany even to the most cultured, most western, most accomplished, most "German" of Jews." Hitler's Willing Executioners, Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, page 61.

Germany had an anti-semitic history from the middle ages through 1945. There are many articles written from the 17th and 18th century calling for the elimination of the Jews from Germany.

I would say Mendelssohn was composing in a rather hostile atmosphere.


----------



## Mahlerian

hpowders said:


> Germany had an anti-semitic history from the middle ages through 1945. There are many articles written from the 17th and 18th century calling for the elimination of the Jews from Germany.
> 
> I would say Mendelssohn was composing in a rather hostile atmosphere.


Yes, he grew up in a climate hostile to Jews, whether or not they were assimilated (although Wagner actually railed against those who would not assimilate, rather than simply all Jewish people), but Mendelssohn, unlike Mahler, was by all accounts proud of his Christianity and zealous in his beliefs. Unlike Mahler, he could have in good faith set the "Credo" portion of the Mass text.


----------



## Bellinilover

Hpowers: Well, I think antisemitism is a very old prejudice, perhaps even the oldest one; I'm not denying that. I'm sure many people didn't like Mendelssohn because he was Jewish, and that there was a lot of ignorance as well as unthinking, "casual" bigotry. But antisemitism is alive and well today, too: just look at the internet. And so what I get suspicious of is what someone (G.K. Chesterton, I think?) called "chronological snobbery" -- the idea that we moderns are so much smarter, so much less bigoted, so much more enlightened than were previous generations. So whenever I see a statement like "The Victorians were racist" or "nineteenth-century America was antisemitic" or something like that, I tend to get suspicious because to me those statements sound too simplistic. A hundred years from now, someone could do the same thing: read Youtube comments and conclude that 21st century Western culture was antisemitic. I'm not trying to jump on you or question your sources; it's just that "pat" generalizations are sort of a pet peeve of mine. In that DANIEL DERONDA film I excerpted above, a variety of attitudes toward Jews, from contempt to amusement to compassion to admiration, are represented. If that's a reflection of how things really were in 1870's England, then I think we can say that the "real story" is usually more complex than we make it out to have been.


----------



## Headphone Hermit

Ah, Bellinilover, I had misunderstood the meaning of the post you refer to - I had taken it as a denial of the anti-semitism that Mendelssohn was (almost certainly) very aware of. Anti-semitism was rife in many areas of European society in C19 ... and I will see anti-semitic graffiti in the central-European country where I will be on holiday next weekend - unfortunately


----------



## KenOC

Headphone Hermit said:


> Ah, Bellinilover, I had misunderstood the meaning of the post you refer to - I had taken it as a denial of the anti-semitism that Mendelssohn was (almost certainly) very aware of. Anti-semitism was rife in many areas of European society in C19 ... and I will see anti-semitic graffiti in the central-European country where I will be on holiday next weekend - unfortunately


Mendelssohn is an interesting case. He was born officially without religion, never circumcised, and baptized as a Christian at age 7, retaining that identification (not too enthusiastically) his whole life. Still, he jocularly referred to himself as a "Jew-boy" in a famous letter, and was certainly considered a Jew up to the present. Not sure how that all sorts out!


----------



## hpowders

Bellinilover said:


> Hpowers: Well, I think antisemitism is a very old prejudice, perhaps even the oldest one; I'm not denying that. I'm sure many people didn't like Mendelssohn because he was Jewish, and that there was a lot of ignorance as well as unthinking, "casual" bigotry. But antisemitism is alive and well today, too: just look at the internet. And so what I get suspicious of is what someone (G.K. Chesterton, I think?) called "chronological snobbery" -- the idea that we moderns are so much smarter, so much less bigoted, so much more enlightened than were previous generations. So whenever I see a statement like "The Victorians were racist" or "nineteenth-century America was antisemitic" or something like that, I tend to get suspicious because to me those statements sound too simplistic. A hundred years from now, someone could do the same thing: read Youtube comments and conclude that 21st century Western culture was antisemitic. I'm not trying to jump on you or question your sources; it's just that "pat" generalizations are sort of a pet peeve of mine. In that DANIEL DERONDA film I excerpted above, a variety of attitudes toward Jews, from contempt to amusement to compassion to admiration, are represented. If that's a reflection of how things really were in 1870's England, then I think we can say that the "real story" is usually more complex than we make it out to have been.


Well of course, If Germany was rife with anti-semitism from the Middle Ages through World War 2, those feelings didn't magically disappear after 1945. Those deeply ingrained feelings are latently still deeply ingrained and it wouldn't take much-such as Israel fighting Hamas to bring those feelings out in full force once again.

What Mendelssohn genuinely felt toward religion, I have no idea. Perhaps he was a devout Christian.

What I do know as a Jew is 99% of Jews would not convert to Christianity unless they absolutely had to!
The climate of the times was hostile to Jews. Somewhere along the line, the Mendelssohn family felt the heat and converted out of necessity to Christianity. Believe me, they didn't have any great revelation that the gospel was word. They did it out of necessity. If Felix totally threw his heart into it, it's because someone before him in his family felt the heat and thought it best to convert.

Anyhow, I love Mendelssohn's string quartets, the violin concerto and the marvelous two piano trios. He should have been Jewish, but was not. I can live with that.


----------



## Mahlerian

hpowders said:


> Well of course, If Germany was rife with anti-semitism from the Middle Ages through World War 2, those feelings didn't magically disappear after 1945. Those deeply ingrained feelings are latently still deeply ingrained and it wouldn't take much-such as Israel fighting Hamas to bring those feelings out in full force once again.
> 
> What Mendelssohn genuinely felt toward religion, I have no idea. Perhaps he was a devout Christian.
> 
> What I do know as a Jew is 99% of Jews would not convert to Christianity unless they absolutely had to!
> The climate of the times was hostile to Jews. Somewhere along the line, the Mendelssohn family felt the heat and converted out of necessity to Christianity. Believe me, they didn't have any great revelation that the gospel was word. They did it out of necessity. If Felix totally threw his heart into it, it's because someone before him in his family felt the heat and thought it best to convert.
> 
> Anyhow, I love Mendelssohn's string quartets, the violin concerto and the marvelous two piano trios. He should have been Jewish, but was not. I can live with that.


As best I can tell from:
http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2009/june/sposatomendelssohn.html

Mendelssohn considered himself both Jewish and Christian, and in his later life embraced both identities.


----------



## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> As best I can tell from:
> http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2009/june/sposatomendelssohn.html
> 
> Mendelssohn considered himself both Jewish and Christian, and in his later life embraced both identities.


Perhaps. What I'm saying is if Jews weren't reviled in 18th and 19th century Germany, the Mendelssohn family would not have converted to Christianity, most likely before Felix was born.

There are Jewish influences in his music. The coda to the first movement of his great final quartet in f minor sounds like it came right out of the shtetl.


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## Itullian

He was an ethnic Jew.
Maybe a Christian by belief. We cant know for sure do to the pressure of the times he lived in.

Whatever, he was a great composer.


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## Sonata

Agreed Itulian!


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## hpowders

Just ordered my fourth set of the Mendelssohn Quartets; this time with the Henschel Quartet.

Can hardly wait!


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## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> As best I can tell from:
> http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2009/june/sposatomendelssohn.html
> 
> Mendelssohn considered himself both Jewish and Christian, and in his later life embraced both identities.


Well, no Jew I know including me would write a symphony entitled "Reformation", so it appears that Mendelssohn thought of himself Christian, even though the map of Israel was unmistakenly written on his face.


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## hpowders

Mendelssohn was baptized as a Lutheran at age 7? That may be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life! Perhaps his parents should have read the writings of Martin Luther before doing so.


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## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> Mendelssohn was baptized as a Lutheran at age 7? That may be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life! Perhaps his parents should have read the writings of Martin Luther before doing so.


You should see how dissimilar Calvinists today are from John Calvin himself. But on another note, I think it's pretty clear from Mendelssohn's reverence of the St. Matthew Passion (he owned one of the few manuscripts known at the time before he premiered it, I believe) and his own body of religious works that he didn't just convert, he was serious about it. I have a hard time believing that the person who wrote those oratorios was halfhearted about Christianity.

I also have a hard time believing Alkan wasn't a Christian. Sure, there are a few translations of just single books from the NT by secular editors, but it's hard to believe that someone translated the whole NT into French by himself and he wasn't a Christian.

Of course, it might seem like I'm chasing rabbits here but this stuff is interesting to me and it affects how I listen. Not everyone has to care, Itulian is right that Mendelssohn was a great composer regardless. Yet however pretentious it is of me to think that I can know, I like to ask myself "what did this really mean to him/her, what does the composer mean to say", regardless of whether I'll really know it is entertaining to ask and for me it is a fuller experience.


----------



## hpowders

hpowders said:


> Well of course, If Germany was rife with anti-semitism from the Middle Ages through World War 2, those feelings didn't magically disappear after 1945. Those deeply ingrained feelings are latently still deeply ingrained and it wouldn't take much-such as Israel fighting Hamas to bring those feelings out in full force once again.
> 
> What Mendelssohn genuinely felt toward religion, I have no idea. Perhaps he was a devout Christian.
> 
> What I do know as a Jew is 99% of Jews would not convert to Christianity unless they absolutely had to!
> The climate of the times was hostile to Jews. Somewhere along the line, the Mendelssohn family felt the heat and converted out of necessity to Christianity. Believe me, they didn't have any great revelation that the gospel was word. They did it out of necessity. If Felix totally threw his heart into it, it's because someone before him in his family felt the heat and thought it best to convert.
> 
> *Anyhow, I love Mendelssohn's string quartets, the violin concerto and the marvelous two piano trios. He should have been Jewish, but was not. I can live with that.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> To quote my previous post #150, I already wrote that despite anything else, I love certain segments of Mendelssohn's music. I never wrote ANYWHERE that I don't consider Mendelssohn to be among the great composers.
> Mendelssohn is in my top five composers of all time. Haydn takes up the other four positions.


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## hpowders

Just bought the Mendelssohn Quartets by the Henschel String Quartet, based on a favorable professional review. Not what I was expecting. A little too cool after listening to the Emerson Quartet.


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## scratchgolf

I've been a huge fan of Mendelssohn's 3rd and 4th symphonies for some time. I've only recently latched on to his 2nd and it's been like an epiphany. While he was already my 3rd favorite composer, he's recently earned his position on my personal Mt Rushmore, along side Mr. Beethoven, Schubert, and Bach.


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## hpowders

hpowders said:


> Just bought the Mendelssohn Quartets by the Henschel String Quartet, based on a favorable professional review. Not what I was expecting. A little too cool after listening to the Emerson Quartet.


Ha! First impressions are not always best. After living with the Henschel for a bit, they are now my preferred version of the five sets I own. I seriously underestimated their interpretations.


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## ultima

The greatest underrated composer in my opinion. I always cite his Violin Concerto in Em as textbook perfection in terms of the combination of form, development and expression. 

Also, the second movement of the D minor trio never fails to move me.


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## hpowders

If you really want to get to know Mendelssohn, listen to his two piano trios and six string quartets.


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## AST

My dream chamber concert for strings: Mendelssohn Octet and Schubert Quintet. That's all you need.


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## hpowders

AST said:


> My dream chamber concert for strings: Mendelssohn Octet and Schubert Quintet. That's all you need.


Plus the money to buy a ticket. Yeah. That would be a fine concert.


----------



## Shibooty

His "Hebrides Overture" (also known as "Fingal's Cave") is my favorite piece of all time. I am also fond of the "Ruy Blas Overture" and Scottish Symphony.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Yeah, the Hebrides Overture is excellent for sure. Do you have a favourite interpretation?


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## hpowders

Peter Maag for me.


----------



## nightscape

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Yeah, the Hebrides Overture is excellent for sure. Do you have a favourite interpretation?


Karajan is about as good as it gets for that.


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## hpowders

hpowders said:


> Peter Maag for me.


Yes. This is as good as it gets.


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## Bellinilover

hpowders said:


> Mendelssohn was baptized as a Lutheran at age 7? That may be the most ironic thing I've ever heard in my life! Perhaps his parents should have read the writings of Martin Luther before doing so.


As sickening as Luther's anti-Jewish polemic is, I don't think it automatically follows that because of this no Jewish person should ever become Lutheran.* There's obviously a great deal more to Lutheranism than this one very unfortunate bias of Luther's, and Lutherans neither worship Luther nor are compelled to agree with everything he ever said or did. He's not considered "infallible" or anything like that.

Anyway, I have it from a couple of other sources that Mendelssohn was not Lutheran but a Reformed Protestant. There's a statue of him outside St. Thomas' Lutheran Church in Germany (where Bach worked). Maybe this is why people think he was Lutheran? I don't know.

*Please note I'm not saying that Jews _should_ become Christians. Personally, I think they should stay Jewish, but on the other hand who am I to tell people what to do?


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## Bellinilover

Mendelssohn is a composer I'm just now getting into, thanks to recommendations made on my thread in "Classical Music." He's fast becoming a favorite of mine, at least among non-opera composers. His "Songs without Words, Opus 19, Number 1" is one of the loveliest pieces of piano music I've ever heard.

And, as frivolous as this might sound, Mendelssohn is only the second composer (Bellini was the first) who has ever made me stop and think, "He was quite good-looking"! (Usually, I have that thought about performers, not composers.)


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## Avey

Bellinilover said:


> Mendelssohn is a composer I'm just now getting into, thanks to recommendations made on my thread in "Classical Music." He's fast becoming a favorite of mine....
> View attachment 74088


Oh, gosh: DUH!!!!


----------



## Bellinilover

Avey said:


> Oh, gosh: DUH!!!!


I don't take your meaning. Did I say something nonsensical?


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## Avey

Bellinilover said:


> I don't take your meaning. Did I say something nonsensical?


No, the precise opposite; everything you said is obvious. Thus, my exclaiming DUH!!!!


----------



## trazom

Avey said:


> No, the precise opposite; everything you said is obvious. Thus, my exclaiming DUH!!!!




Should I feel embarrassed for _not_ finding it obvious that Mendelssohn was becoming Bellinilover's new favorite? Maybe I don't do a good job keeping up with which posters like which composers.


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## SixFootScowl

Bellinilover said:


> Mendelssohn is a composer I'm just now getting into, thanks to recommendations made on my thread in "Classical Music." He's fast becoming a favorite of mine, at least among non-opera composers. His "Songs without Words, Opus 19, Number 1" is one of the loveliest pieces of piano music I've ever heard.


I discovered Mendelssohn when I learned that his 5th symphony in the 4th movement included the melody from the Lutheran Hymn, "A Mighty Fortress." I ended up with all his symphonies, string symphonies, and the violin concerto. I am sure there is much more great music of his to discover.

Looks like he was a one-opera composer. Wikipedia has this,


> The year 1827 saw the premiere - and sole performance in his lifetime - of Mendelssohn's opera, Die Hochzeit des Camacho. The failure of this production left him disinclined to venture into the genre again.


Sounds like Beethoven's opera story, but that Beethoven's finally became popular after much revision and many years.


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## ricklee

When I listen to M's violin concerto I can't help but think "this is my favourite violin concerto!" The feeling lasts until I hear Brahms, or Beethoven, or Tchaikovsky. Or Sibelius!


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## Weston

I heard bits of the Symphony No. 3 "Italian" at work yesterday. The main theme from movement 2 struck me as very --ethnic? Almost too ethnic to get away with in Mendelssohn's day, and certainly not Italian in flavor. Anyone know the source of this theme?


----------



## tdc

Weston said:


> I heard bits of the Symphony No. 3 "Italian" at work yesterday. The main theme from movement 2 struck me as very --ethnic? Almost too ethnic to get away with in Mendelssohn's day, and certainly not Italian in flavor. Anyone know the source of this theme?


The 3rd Symphony is the Scottish (The 4th is the Italian.) So not sure which Symphony you are referring to here.


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## Weston

Sorry, I meant No. 4. It was a typo. Definitely No. 4, movement 2. But on further listen it almost sounds Eastern European. Just briefly.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

I think the 2nd Symphony, 'Hymn of Praise' is quite underrated - it's more an oratorio than a symphony. An excellent piece - brilliant melodies and choral work.


----------



## HolstThePhone

Weston said:


> I heard bits of the Symphony No. 3 "Italian" at work yesterday. The main theme from movement 2 struck me as very --ethnic? Almost too ethnic to get away with in Mendelssohn's day, and certainly not Italian in flavor. Anyone know the source of this theme?


I think it's supposed to be evocative of a religious procession - not entirely sure where I read that though


----------



## Avey

I've recently tuned to a classical station on my cable. Between the "light classical" and "classical masterpiece" options, I am pleased how diverse the selections are. I have yet to run into the same piece yet (though, I only discovered these a few weeks ago).

Anyways, not a cable thread. I listened to *Mendelssohn's Piano Trio No. 2 in C Minor* just last night. I have not heard the piece in so many months. I often turn to this work when I debate my favorite chamber works, in my head, routinely. Though, as you may relate, we know we love these pieces, but may not necessarily have heard them in so long.

But here I am listening to this work, knowing all the notes like some pleasant memory etched in the mind. And too pleasant, really.

How lovely the thing is, the Trio. The subtlety and precision here is unmatched in the form. Sure, we aren't pushing structural barriers or tonal bounds, but we are getting truly perfect chamber writing. This is the type of stuff I want to hear in my living room. This is the stuff I want to play with my closest friends and allies.

Most amazingly, the work sent me spinning back to those several months back and the peculiar feelings or smells - that ineffable tension you get, often called nostalgic or reminiscent, when you are thrown back into some place in time. It is a common feeling, but come to think of it, only few pieces actually give me that sort of sense of place.

Here is one of them. Just a random, overdue note for Felix.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

HolstThePhone said:


> I think it's supposed to be evocative of a religious procession - not entirely sure where I read that though


You could have read it anywhere, because it's quite correct. During his travels in Italy Mendelssohn witnessed a pilgrims' procession in Naples, and this movement is his impression of that.


----------



## clara s

tonight as I was sitting comfortably on the couch, trying to free my mind from a tiring day's load,

I just chose a piece that I do not listen to it often, but has a special attraction on me...

Capriccio brillant in B minor...

with Cyprien Katsaris, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig and Kurt Masur

so incredibly powerful and at the same time romantic...

having a look at Mendelssohn's life, I noticed that yesterday was his birthday

what a coincidence to listen to this beautiful piece at this specific time...

magic performance


----------



## Abraham Lincoln




----------



## DavidA

Just listenng to the oratorio Paulus. Such a beautiful work!


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## Pugg

My favourites are: 

Mendelssohn: Symphony No. 2 in B flat major, Op. 52 'Lobgesang' (Hymn of Praise)
Mendelssohn: A Midsummer Night's Dream - incidental music, Op. 61 (including overture)
Mendelssohn: Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage, Op. 27 (Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt)


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage(Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt)


I think Beethoven composed a piece of the same title.


----------



## hpowders

clara s said:


> tonight as I was sitting comfortably on the couch, trying to free my mind from a tiring day's load,
> 
> I just chose a piece that I do not listen to it often, but has a special attraction on me...
> 
> Capriccio brillant in B minor...
> 
> with Cyprien Katsaris, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig and Kurt Masur
> 
> so incredibly powerful and at the same time romantic...
> 
> having a look at Mendelssohn's life, I noticed that yesterday was his birthday
> 
> what a coincidence to listen to this beautiful piece at this specific time...
> 
> magic performance


A very fine description as only clara s can do. :tiphat:


----------



## Janspe

I've decided to start exploring Mendelssohn's works for string quartet. I've found recordings of the six opus-numbered quartets, the very early quartet in E-flat major and the four pieces that were published as his Op. 81. But here's a question: does anybody know a recording of the 12 fugues for the same instrumental forces, which are listed in Wikipedia and were supposedly written in 1821? I couldn't find anything in Spotify, apart from a few selections, and arkivmusic.com failed me as well. I like to be comprehensive in projects like this (a habit that I sometimes strongly dislike...) so any information is appreciated!


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## SixFootScowl

Have you tried Mendelssohn's 12 string symphonies? They were heavily inspired by the works of Bach.


----------



## Janspe

Florestan said:


> Have you tried Mendelssohn's 12 string symphonies?


I have listened to a few of them, but not very thoroughly. To be honest, I've never been very fond of works written for a string orchestra, I much prefer smaller string ensembles like the quartet or the quintet. That's why I'm more interested in his output for the string quartet at the moment. But who knows, perhaps I'll delve into the string symphonies when I finally get around exploring his symphonic output in more detail - I've only gone through his cycle a few times.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Janspe said:


> I have listened to a few of them, but not very thoroughly. To be honest, I've never been very fond of works written for a string orchestra, I much prefer smaller string ensembles like the quartet or the quintet. That's why I'm more interested in his output for the string quartet at the moment. But who knows, perhaps I'll delve into the string symphonies when I finally get around exploring his symphonic output in more detail - I've only gone through his cycle a few times.


I found the string symphonies quite nice with my first set (Ross Pople) which I think is HIP or at least a small ensemble. My second set by Masur is full orchestral sized strings and I don't like it as much, seems overdone.


----------



## Abraham Lincoln

Am I the only one who likes his first piano concerto?


----------



## Xenakiboy

Abraham Mendelssohn
Fanny Lincoln 
Felix Lincoln


----------



## Xenakiboy

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Am I the only one who likes his first piano concerto?


If you like it, I like it!


----------



## Pugg

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Am I the only one who likes his first piano concerto?


No you don't


----------



## Abraham Lincoln

One of my all-time faves.


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## Abraham Lincoln

I just realized, tomorrow is November 4th, Mendelssohn's death anniversary. I kind of want to make some art to commemorate.


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## Tchaikov6

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Am I the only one who likes his first piano concerto?


I find that his first piano concerto really doesn't go "out of the box" like he did with his second symphony (My favorite mendelssohn), the violin concerto, or midsummer's nights dream. It, along with the italian symphony, doesn't have much originality. I do enjoy most of his other pieces too, including the second piano concerto.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Am I the only one who likes his first piano concerto?


No, but I prefer no.2.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

Tchaikov6 said:


> I find that his first piano concerto really doesn't go "out of the box" like he did with his second symphony (My favorite mendelssohn), the violin concerto, or midsummer's nights dream. It, along with the italian symphony, doesn't have much originality. I do enjoy most of his other pieces too, including the second piano concerto.


The "Italian" starts in the major and ends in the minor. Pieces which did that weren't common in Mendelssohn's day. Come to think of it, they never really have been.

In any case. making originality one's main benchmark would rule out much of Bach's and Mozart's output to name just two. Refining what's known is every bit as worthwhile as striving for novelty IMHO.


----------



## Tchaikov6

Animal the Drummer said:


> The "Italian" starts in the major and ends in the minor. Pieces which did that weren't common in Mendelssohn's day. Come to think of it, they never really have been.
> 
> In any case. making originality one's main benchmark would rule out much of Bach's and Mozart's output to name just two. Refining what's known is every bit as worthwhile as striving for novelty IMHO.


Good point, but I still don't enjoy them as much as I do his other pieces.

And I would say Bach is very original. As for Mozart, I've never really cared for him except for a handful of pieces.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

Well, _de gustibus non disputandum_ and all that. Incidentally Pyotr Ilyich worshipped Mozart.


----------



## MadMusicist

Time to bump up this thread about my dearest Felix! 

Just listened to the 3rd symphony again. Such beautifully constructed stuff! It does not only have a symphonic architecture, but also has the character of a song being sung by the voice of the whole orchestra. There are moments that are so Mendelssohnian with its energy and rapid momentum, yet it remains polished and unfrantic. Contrary to what some people think, Mendelssohn does have weight in his music. he doesn't let it weigh him down, that's all. Nor does he over-indulge in his own melodrama. He saves the best for the listener, and that's exactly what we get from him.


----------



## Pugg

MadMusicist said:


> Time to bump up this thread about my dearest Felix!
> 
> Just listened to the 3rd symphony again. Such beautifully constructed stuff! It does not only have a symphonic architecture, but also has the character of a song being sung by the voice of the whole orchestra. There are moments that are so Mendelssohnian with its energy and rapid momentum, yet it remains polished and unfrantic. Contrary to what some people think, Mendelssohn does have weight in his music. he doesn't let it weigh him down, that's all. Nor does he over-indulge in his own melodrama. He saves the best for the listener, and that's exactly what we get from him.


Good to see you so enthusiast about Mendelssohn, Abraham Lincoln will be overjoyed.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Good to see you so enthusiast about Mendelssohn, *Abraham Lincoln will be overjoyed*.


Me too, overjoyed. Mendelssohn is one of my favorite composers.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Me too, overjoyed. Mendelssohn is one of my favorite composers.


How could I forget you.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> How could I forget you.


Well I have been sidetracked with The Ring lately and other things. But for non-vocal classical I mainly only listen to symphonies and my top three are Beethoven, Mendelssohn, and Mahler.


----------



## Vaneyes

His Orchestral (Symphonies 3 & 4, Violin Concerto) is a cut above, but for me, the meat-of-the-matter is Chamber. Especially, String Quintets, String Quartets, Piano Trios, Works for Cello & Piano. :tiphat:


----------



## MadMusicist

Vaneyes said:


> His Orchestral (Symphonies 3 & 4, Violin Concerto) is a cut above, but for me, the meat-of-the-matter is Chamber. Especially, String Quintets, String Quartets, Piano Trios, Works for Cello & Piano. :tiphat:


I agree! 

And being Mendelssohn, even his early chamber works are amazing (not only the Octet but works like the first two quartets as well). Precocious but not pretentious.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Don't forget Felix' sister Fanny. She composed some nice works, several of which are available on CD.

Here is a nice piano work about the months of the year:
Das Jahr


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## gouts

If I ever visit Scotland, I will definitely visit Scotland & Staffa island. That special place is known to me only by Mendelssohn's spectacular overture "The Hebrides". The boat will be rocking by Felix's genius, for sure!


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## hpowders

gouts said:


> If I ever visit Scotland, I will definitely visit Scotland & Staffa island. That special place is known to me only by Mendelssohn's spectacular overture "The Hebrides". The boat will be rocking by Felix's genius, for sure!


Yeah. It's a fine overture.


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## Pugg

gouts said:


> If I ever visit Scotland, I will definitely visit Scotland & Staffa island. That special place is known to me only by Mendelssohn's spectacular overture "The Hebrides". The boat will be rocking by Felix's genius, for sure!


Good one you, always nice having something looking forwards to.


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## DavidA

Just enjoying Mendelssohn's preludes and fugues which are part of Ben Grosvenor's new disc Homages. They are really very fine indeed.


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## MadMusicist

^ That reminds me! I love those preludes and fugues. I remember obsessing with one of them a while back:

Schumann wrote: "I,…who can luxuriate for hours in Beethoven's, Bach's, and Handel's fugues, always insisted that none could be composed today except watery ones, lukewarm ones, miserable and patchwork ones; until, finally, these by Mendelssohn somewhat calmed me." If there's anyone who could bring Bach's fugal tradition into the 19th Century without sounding technically strained or overly archaic, it's Mendelssohn. I don't recall the exact words, but I remember that in Mendelssohn's letters, he mentioned that he created these works with serious intentions and that he did not expect them to attain mass popularity. That was what he intended, and that's what we got.

By the nineteenth century, fugues were not exactly the most fashionable type of composition anymore, and Schumann described the fugue as a "not very marketable commodity". Mendelssohn himself wrote to the publisher: "[My preludes and fugues] will be little played, I fear…". It seems that he was well aware of the aspects of fugues that were often perceived as dry erudition, but he composed them anyways. Let us not think of these works simply as little contrapuntal exercises stepping perfectly into Bach's footprints. The Thalbergian texture of the E minor prelude is a good example of how Mendelssohn was keeping up with the pianistic innovations of the times, yet never letting ambitious virtuosity take over his music. The prelude has a kind of subtle momentum and energy bubbling underneath the melody that is quite characteristic of Mendelssohn. It has some sort of contained tension with the melodic voice singing from inside the bubbling texture. The first (E minor) fugue is thoroughly fugal and thoroughly Romantic, with a quiet and somewhat pensive ending, which always seems to serve Mendelssohn well. Some notable features of the fugue include the dissonant drama of the harmony and the chorale near the end. Perhaps Mendelssohn took few bold risks, but he always found a way to elegantly integrate subtly innovative elements into his music with gentlemanly ease. The chorale section, written in the parallel major key, sounds confident and satisfying with its major key qualities, leading to an unpretentious and barely polyphonic ending that concludes ever so dreamily.

It is interesting to note that the Prelude and Fugue in E minor could possibly have programmatic intentions behind it. Julius Schubring (a pastor and Mendelssohn's friend who helped Mendelssohn with the libretti for the oratorios) wrote: "…he devoted the time, as he watched through the night by the bed of his dying friend, Hanstein, to marking in the first fugue, composed here, of the six he afterwards published - in E minor - the progress of the disease as it gradually destroyed the sufferer, until he made it culminate in the chorale of release in E major…this was why his music possessed such a magic charm." Whether of not this is true or relevant to the piece, there's something seductive about the idea of a programmatic Romantic fugue, and I wish composers created more works based on it.


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## CypressWillow

Me too. His music is nourishing for me.


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## Abraham Lincoln

I made a picture to commemorate his birthday. For once he looks like he isn't giving up on life


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## Pugg

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I made a picture to commemorate his birthday. For once he looks like he isn't giving up on life


Like the hairdo .


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## KenOC

MadMusicist said:


> By the nineteenth century, fugues were not exactly the most fashionable type of composition anymore...


What an excellent post. It's as good as reading the liner notes on the better of those old LPs. We need more of this!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Vaneyes said:


> His Orchestral (Symphonies 3 & 4, Violin Concerto) is a cut above, but for me, the meat-of-the-matter is Chamber


I agree. In fact, on balance, I prefer Mendelssohn's chamber music over that of Schubert and Brahms.


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## Daverk

One of the first pieces of classical music I listened to as a child was the Fingal Cave overture,still a favorite.


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## Abraham Lincoln

I wish I had more time to practice some of the Songs Without Words.


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## SixFootScowl

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I wish I had more time to practice some of the Songs Without Words.


I don't need to practice. I can sing the words perfectly.


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## Abraham Lincoln

florestan said:


> i don't need to practice. I can sing the words perfectly.


That's Cage's 4'33".


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## SixFootScowl

Abraham Lincoln said:


> That's *Cage's 4'33"*.


Ah yes, I can sing that too. It's like a silent movie.


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## Pugg

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I wish I had more time to practice some of the Songs Without Words.


The days should be longer.....


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## Abraham Lincoln

Pugg said:


> The days should be longer.....


I could drown in the two Gondola lieder.


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## Hobbit

Amongst all of Felix's works I enjoy listening to his 'Hebridean' overture.


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## Pugg

​
Jakob Ludwig Felix *Mendelssohn Bartholdy (3 February 1809 *- 4 November 1847), born and widely known as Felix Mendelssohn, was a German composer, pianist, organist and conductor of the early romantic period. Mendelssohn wrote symphonies, concertos, oratorios, piano music and chamber music


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Jakob Ludwig Felix *Mendelssohn Bartholdy (3 February 1809 *- 4 November 1847), born and widely known as Felix Mendelssohn, was a German composer, pianist, organist and conductor of the early romantic period. Mendelssohn wrote symphonies, concertos, oratorios, piano music and chamber music


Here we have a composer who surely is underrated.


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## Triplets

Fritz Kobus said:


> Here we have a composer who surely is underrated.


I tend to agree, but there are many in the Music World that consider him a second rate Composer, a facile imitator instead of a true genius. And there is some unevenness in the quality of his output, to be sure, but also enough true masterpieces to justify the term Great


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## Beet131

I love Mendelssohn! One of the things that I find so endearing about his music is that he does pay homage to the great masters who preceded him. Some say that Mendelssohn sounds like Beethoven at times or perhaps Handel. However, I find him to be truly authentic with a splash of Beethoven or Handel here and there. When listening to Mendelssohn's last movement Presto from his exhilarating String Octet I sense the same quality as the end of Beethoven's first movement of the "Harp" String Quartet with all the same passion and vivacity, but it's still uniquely Mendelssohn. I also hear Mendelssohn's Presto from the Octet quoting Handel's "And He shall reign for ever and ever" from the Hallelujah Chorus of the Messiah. But in each case, Mendelssohn has expertly crafted a few measures of perfectly-integrated homage to his musical heroes.


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## SCSL

Agree with the previous comment about Mendelssohn being underrated. Much of what is said about Mozart could at least as accurately be said of Mendelssohn. Too many favorites of his to list, but the String Quartet No.6 might just be my favorite string quartet.


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## ldiat

as i said in another thread.... MENDELSSOHN will b running in the may 5th Kentucky Derby for 3yo's. well some one named the horse that name!
ps Pedigree: Scat Daddy - Leslie's Lady by Tricky Creek


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## hpowders

For me the finest works Mendelssohn composed are his violin concerto, two piano trios and six string quartets. His symphonies and piano concertos do nothing for me.


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## cougarjuno

Mendelssohn is unquestionably a true musical genius, those journalists who so easily dub him as without character, in my opinion haven't listened to enough of his music. With that said, the music which pays tribute to Bach for instance is simply brilliant i.e. his Preludes and Fugues op. 35. And if one looks for a sound that is unmistakably Mendelssohn -- A Midsummer Night's Dream would be that piece as well as the symphonies, octet, quartets etc. which to my ears are extremely individual. The only thing I find wanting in Mendelssohn's music is perhaps his lieder. His choral music (Psalms, Elijah, etc.) is brilliant but generally I find his lieder the weakest part of his works. Perhaps someone could recommend some appealing lieder of his that I might have missed.


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## Janspe

Recently I've been listening to the four symphonies (I don't consider _Lobgesang_ to be a part of the cycle) and I'm beginning to be more and more convinced of the set's value. The same goes for many other works of Mendelssohn. It seems it took me some time to start appreciating Mendelssohn's musical language - but better late than never!

I've certainly enjoyed hearing the symphonies live before, but I feel like I'll be listening to them with more open ears in the future.


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## flamencosketches

Janspe said:


> Recently I've been listening to the four symphonies (I don't consider _Lobgesang_ to be a part of the cycle) and I'm beginning to be more and more convinced of the set's value. The same goes for many other works of Mendelssohn. It seems it took me some time to start appreciating Mendelssohn's musical language - but better late than never!
> 
> I've certainly enjoyed hearing the symphonies live before, but I feel like I'll be listening to them with more open ears in the future.


Why do you not consider Lobgesang as part of the cycle? Isn't that something like not recognizing the 9th as a valid Beethoven symphony?

I like these symphonies too, especially 3, 4 and 5. Symphony or not, I don't get Lobgesang, and 1 is slightly unremarkable. What recordings have you been enjoying? I like the Kurt Masur/Leipzig.


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## Janspe

flamencosketches said:


> Why do you not consider Lobgesang as part of the cycle? Isn't that something like not recognizing the 9th as a valid Beethoven symphony?


Apologies for my rather late reply, I've been on holiday and thus away from my laptop for quite some time!

The _Lobgesang_ was named the 2nd symphony only after Mendelssohn's death, and I think there's no evidence that Mendelssohn intended it as such (as part of the cycle). A quote from Wikipedia:

_In 1842 Mendelssohn had published his Scottish Symphony as "Symphony No. 3", however a "Symphony No. 2" had never been published during Mendelssohn's lifetime. Possibly the composer's intention was to spare this number for his earlier Italian Symphony, which he premiered in 1833, but afterwards withheld for a revision that was never completed. The Italian Symphony was published posthumously as "Symphony No. 4". Decades after Mendelssohn's death, the editors of the old Mendelssohn complete edition entered Lobgesang as "No. 2" in the sequence of this symphonies for editorial reasons. However, there is no indication that this represented the composer's intentions. The new Mendelssohn-Werkverzeichnis (MWV), published in 2009 by the Saxonian Academy of Sciences and Humanities, no longer lists Lobgesang among the symphonies, but rather among the sacred vocal works._



flamencosketches said:


> What recordings have you been enjoying? I like the Kurt Masur/Leipzig.


Recently I've been listening to Claus Peter Flor's interpretations. Plenty to dig into, he also recorded many concerti and other orchestral works!


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## flamencosketches

Wow, I never knew that. So he published it nominally as a cantata or some such? I think its status as a symphony was revolutionary.


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## Rogerx

*Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy[ (3 February 1809 – 4 November 1847)*





Jakob Ludwig Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy[n 1] (3 February 1809 - 4 November 1847), born and widely known as Felix Mendelssohn,[n 2] was a German composer, pianist, organist and conductor of the early Romantic period. Mendelssohn's compositions include symphonies, concertos, piano music and chamber music. His best-known works include his overture and incidental music for A Midsummer Night's Dream, the Italian Symphony, the Scottish Symphony, the oratorio Elijah, the overture The Hebrides, his mature Violin Concerto, and his String Octet. The melody for the Christmas carol "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" is also his. Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words are his most famous solo piano compositions.


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## starthrower

I've yet to pick up a symphony cycle. I could never decide on one. I have 3 & 4 by Klemperer. But Mendelssohn's other works occupy more of my listening time. The string quartets, and the sacred choral box on Brilliant Classics are what I enjoy the most.


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## SixFootScowl

If I didn't already have several cycles, including Masur, I would get this one:









I think Masur has two Mendelssohn cycles and mine is the older one, so I perhaps could justify this. Naaah! Why justify it, I can just buy it! Costs more to fill my gas tank than a great CD box set! :lol:


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## flamencosketches

SixFootScowl said:


> If I didn't already have several cycles, including Masur, I would get this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Masur has two Mendelssohn cycles and mine is the older one, so I perhaps could justify this. Naaah! Why justify it, I can just buy it! Costs more to fill my gas tank than a great CD box set! :lol:


This is the one to get, Starthrower. Dirt cheap, contains all of the symphonies and the early string symphonies (which are great by the way, not just mere curiosities) and the Gewandhausorchester is an orchestra that Mendelssohn himself conducted so you even get the authenticity factor covered. Well worth the $10 or whatever it's going for now.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I really enjoy the symphony cycle by the VPO under Christoph von Dohnanyi. Balances the exciting youthfulness and singing lyricism of Mendelssohn's music perfectly with the VPO sound shining through brilliantly.

What's the consensus here on the "symphony" status of _Lobgesang_ ("Symphony No. 2")? Its only composer-sanctioned description is a "Symphony-Cantata" and it was only added to the numbered ones posthumously. Any admirers of this work?


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## bharbeke

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I really enjoy the symphony cycle by the VPO under Christoph von Dohnanyi. Balances the exciting youthfulness and singing lyricism of Mendelssohn's music perfectly with the VPO sound shining through brilliantly.
> 
> What's the consensus here on the "symphony" status of _Lobgesang_ ("Symphony No. 2")? Its only composer-sanctioned description is a "Symphony-Cantata" and it was only added to the numbered ones posthumously. Any admirers of this work?


I am happy to have it in complete symphony sets. Otherwise, I do not really care what the composer or music cataloguers call it. I was very happy to hear Abbado's version with the London Symphony Orchestra.


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## AeolianStrains

flamencosketches said:


> Wow, I never knew that. So he published it nominally as a cantata or some such? I think its status as a symphony was revolutionary.


I thought it was pretty standard that it's understood to be a cantata, not a symphony.



Allegro Con Brio said:


> What's the consensus here on the "symphony" status of _Lobgesang_ ("Symphony No. 2")? Its only composer-sanctioned description is a "Symphony-Cantata" and it was only added to the numbered ones posthumously. Any admirers of this work?


I only have Gardiner's newest set, which does the job, but I have no real basis of comparison, as it was never something I dug deeply into.


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## Janspe

The more I delve into Mendelssohn's work the more I feel like my years-long dismissal of his music has been one of the most terrible mistakes of my musical life. At least I can make up for the lost time by listening to his music more and more now...

Earlier today I listened to the 2nd piano concerto (D minor, Op. 40) in a reading by András Schiff. Amazing work, I have no idea why it isn't as well known as the 1st concerto! Now listening to _Paulus_ for the first time. So much to discover, and so far not a single weak work in the bunch. Amazing, amazing...


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## Bigbang

Janspe said:


> The more I delve into Mendelssohn's work the more I feel like my years-long dismissal of his music has been one of the most terrible mistakes of my musical life. At least I can make up for the lost time by listening to his music more and more now...
> 
> Earlier today I listened to the 2nd piano concerto (D minor, Op. 40) in a reading by András Schiff. Amazing work, I have no idea why it isn't as well known as the 1st concerto! Now listening to _Paulus_ for the first time. So much to discover, and so far not a single weak work in the bunch. Amazing, amazing...


Interesting. I recently heard the 3rd symphony on radio (live recorded) of FM. I said to myself why am I not listening to this more? I own Solti, Blomstedt, and one other but it was very good to my ears. I was compelled to listen to it. One more reason to not get sidetracked by other opinions but to find one's on way in the musical forest.


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## bharbeke

Janspe said:


> The more I delve into Mendelssohn's work the more I feel like my years-long dismissal of his music has been one of the most terrible mistakes of my musical life. At least I can make up for the lost time by listening to his music more and more now...
> 
> Earlier today I listened to the 2nd piano concerto (D minor, Op. 40) in a reading by András Schiff. Amazing work, I have no idea why it isn't as well known as the 1st concerto! Now listening to _Paulus_ for the first time. So much to discover, and so far not a single weak work in the bunch. Amazing, amazing...


The Schiff is wonderful, and so is the Steuerman version with Orbelian conducting.


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## Merl

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I really enjoy the symphony cycle by the VPO under Christoph von Dohnanyi. Balances the exciting youthfulness and singing lyricism of Mendelssohn's music perfectly with the VPO sound shining through brilliantly.
> 
> What's the consensus here on the "symphony" status of _Lobgesang_ ("Symphony No. 2")? Its only composer-sanctioned description is a "Symphony-Cantata" and it was only added to the numbered ones posthumously. Any admirers of this work?


I agree about the Dohnanyi cycle ACB. As far as the 2nd 'symphony' is concerned I can't stand it but as many know I'm more of an instrumental guy so I skip it in all my Mendelssohn cycles
I currently have Fey's cycle in the car (minis the ghastly 2nd)


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## Joachim Raff

Anyone listened to :







Mendelssohn: Symphonies 1-5 (Live)
Chamber Orchestra Of Europe - Seguin (DG)
It is well recommended by the so called experts. lol


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## Janspe

Today I've been listening to Mendelssohn's sonatas for piano and cello - amazing music! Once again, I totally cannot understand why these works aren't at the absolute center of the repertoire. Anyway, I'm so pleased to have revisited the two sonatas, since the last time I listened to them was years and years ago, way before I really learned to enjoy Mendelssohn's music.


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