# Verdi's requiem



## SCHLEMO (Jun 19, 2015)

Verdi's Requiem and my Mother 

Years ago, my mother adored the Toscanini live mono recording of the Verdi Requiem. She was so enthralled with it that she insisted that one of the soprano/mezzo soprano duets (“Recordare, Jesu pie....”) be played at her funeral. I didn't know what to make of my mother's strong prejudice. I too was very fond of that recording, but other ones had to be that good or better, considering the inferior sound quality of a live recording in mono, no less. Yet all the other versions that I have heard—and there have been plenty—lack the spark of Toscanini's rendition. They are too lugubrious and cumbersome. My mother, who died over 20 years ago, had great instincts when it came to the Verdi masterpiece. Our family paid homage to her when, at her funeral, we did play the gloriously uplifting section that she had always admired so much. I have another reason for being so fond of the Toscanini recording: it has my favorite tenore Guiseppe di Stefano and my favorite basso Cesare Siepi.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

SCHLEMO said:


> Verdi's Requiem and my Mother
> 
> Years ago, my mother adored the Toscanini live mono recording of the Verdi Requiem. She was so enthralled with it that she insisted that one of the soprano/mezzo soprano duets ("Recordare, Jesu pie....") be played at her funeral. I didn't know what to make of my mother's strong prejudice. I too was very fond of that recording, but other ones had to be that good or better, considering the inferior sound quality of a live recording in mono, no less. *Yet all the other versions that I have heard-and there have been plenty-lack the spark of Toscanini's rendition. They are too lugubrious and cumbersome*. My mother, who died over 20 years ago, had great instincts when it came to the Verdi masterpiece. Our family paid homage to her when, at her funeral, we did play the gloriously uplifting section that she had always admired so much. I have another reason for being so fond of the Toscanini recording: it has my favorite tenore Guiseppe di Stefano and my favorite basso Cesare Siepi.


well, it's the Verdi _Requiem_. lugubrious (sad/dismal) is much more fitting than "spark"

my favorite rendition is Carlo Maria Giulini with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf


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## SCHLEMO (Jun 19, 2015)

Toscanini's pace is frenetic compared to the other versions I have encountered. But I have not yet heard the Giuilini rendition. That's next on my list. Thanks.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There is a version of Giulini conducting at the London Proms live which is an electrifying performance. Another which matches Toscanini is the early (mono) Fricsay performance. And John Elliot Gardiner provides another special experience.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Make mine the Reiner/Price/Bjoerling/Elias/Tozzi


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Bernstein/cbs-sony for me, among the six I have - with an occasional dose of Markevitch too, which has poor sound, however.

The "_Mass for Rossini_", a very dramatic and varied 19th-century collective composition, including sections by Verdi (Dies Irae from the Requiem), is highly recommended too - such as in the Rilling recording.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Bernstein recording of the Requiem is terrific!


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Azol said:


> Bernstein recording of the Requiem is terrific!


you mean the one with Arroyo as the soprano? that's probably my second favorite


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> well, it's the Verdi _Requiem_. lugubrious (sad/dismal) is much more fitting than "spark"
> 
> my favorite rendition is Carlo Maria Giulini with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf


A requiem is a Christian mass. The text is positive. It sees the deceased in a very positive light.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> you mean the one with Arroyo as the soprano? that's probably my second favorite


Did he made another one then?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Lukecash12 said:


> A requiem is a Christian mass. The text is positive. It sees the deceased in a very positive light.


yes, but the _tone_ is still melancholic, just like when your mother said "she's in a better place" while she was crying at your grandmother's funeral.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Lukecash12 said:


> A requiem is a Christian mass. The text is positive. It sees the deceased in a very positive light.


Very positive, except when it says:

_This day, this day of wrath
shall consume the world in ashes,
as foretold by David and the Sibyl.

What trembling there will be
When the judge shall come
to weigh everything strictly!

The trumpet, scattering its awful sound
Across the graves of all lands
Summons all before the throne.

Death and nature shall be stunned
When mankind arises
To render account before the judge.

The written book shall be brought
In which all is contained
Whereby the world shall be judged

When the judge takes his seat
all that is hidden shall appear
Nothing will remain unavenged.

What shall I, a wretch, say then?
To which protector shall I appeal
When even the just man is barely safe?

I groan as one guilty,
my face blushes with guilt;
spare the suppliant, O God.

My prayers are not worthy,
but Thou, O good one, show mercy,
lest I burn in everlasting fire.

When the damned are confounded
and consigned to keen flames,
call me with the blessed.
I pray, suppliant and kneeling,
a heart as contrite as ashes;
take Thou my ending into Thy care.

That day is one of weeping,
on which shall rise again from the ashes
the guilty man, to be judged.

Lord Jesus Christ, king of glory,
deliver the souls of all the faithful departed
from the pains of Hell
and the bottomless pit.
Deliver them from the jaws of the lion,
lest hell engulf them,
lest they be plunged into darkness.

Deliver me, O Lord, from eternal death
on that awful day
when the heavens and earth shall be shaken
and you shall come to judge the world by fire.

I am seized with fear and trembling
until the trial is at hand and the wrath to come:
when the heavens and earth shall be sh__aken._

Alas for positivity, that is most of the text of the requiem mass.

Aren't you glad you aren't dead?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Very positive, except when it says:
> 
> _This day, this day of wrath
> shall consume the world in ashes,
> ...


And some say Verdi's treatment is over theatrical!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> And some say Verdi's treatment is over theatrical!


What's amazing is not that Verdi gives it the full operatic treatment, but that Faure succeeds in subduing it so thoroughly. Perhaps one needs to be French to pull that off.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> What's amazing is not that Verdi gives it the full operatic treatment, but that Faure succeeds in subduing it so thoroughly. Perhaps one needs to be French to pull that off.


Yes! Yet there is a subtle but powerful sense of pain in Faure's composition. Weariness, submission, a relief that comes too late. With colours so subdued, the relief is subdued, too, and something sour lingers in the air after it's over. It's a wonderful piece with sensuous and dreamy, almost paradise-like parts... but, heck, it doesn't _have_ a _Dies Irae._ It's a medicine that bedazzles, but provides no cure, simply because it comes with no disease attached. Or maybe it doesn't need to, because it refers to a disease we all know (contrary to the flames of Hell, that are unknown to us), the dreadful _ennui_ of the world of men. _"All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing."_ And it gives us a sleep. Maybe the something sour that I sense is the fact that after it's over _we're still awake,_ and have to carry on.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Xaltotun said:


> Yes! Yet there is a subtle but powerful sense of pain in Faure's composition. Weariness, submission, a relief that comes too late. With colours so subdued, the relief is subdued, too, and something sour lingers in the air after it's over. It's a wonderful piece with sensuous and dreamy, almost paradise-like parts... but, heck, it doesn't _have_ a _Dies Irae._ It's a medicine that bedazzles, but provides no cure, simply because it comes with no disease attached. Or maybe it doesn't need to, because it refers to a disease we all know (contrary to the flames of Hell, that are unknown to us), the dreadful _ennui_ of the world of men. _"All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing."_ And it gives us a sleep. Maybe the something sour that I sense is the fact that after it's over _we're still awake,_ and have to carry on.


You are indeed a poet. My take is more prosaic. Neither Verdi nor Faure believes in the church's phantasmagoria of hellfire - so Verdi writes an opera, and Faure writes a lullaby. The "dies irae" is superb material for opera - it sits with perfect aptness beside Iago's "Credo in un Dio crudel" and probably outdoes it - but is obviously no good for lulling God's chillun to sleep, so Faure drops it. Brahms, another unbeliever, ditches the whole cosmic apparatus and writes an anti-requiem for the living, and Berlioz...um... Words fail me.

Faith just wasn't what it used to be.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> Very positive, except when it says:
> 
> _This day, this day of wrath
> shall consume the world in ashes,
> ...


I'm glad I believe what the Bible actually says rather than some mediaeval poem: eg Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (*Hebrews‬ *4‬:*16‬ NKJV)


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

nina foresti said:


> Make mine the Reiner/Price/Bjoerling/Elias/Tozzi


Yes the absolute best of the several I have heard! Price and Bjoerling are fantastic, too bad they don't get some duet material (but all four soloists are fine, and the solo Offertorio is priceless, "Domine Jesu, Rex Gloriae, Rex Gloriae."


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barelytenor said:


> Yes the absolute best of the several I have heard! Price and Bjoerling are fantastic, too bad they don't get some duet material (but all four soloists are fine, and the solo Offertorio is priceless, "Domine Jesu, Rex Gloriae, Rex Gloriae."


My favourite is still the Giulini with Schwarzkopf, Ludwig, Gedda and Ghiaurov. Schwarzkopf may not be everyone's idea of a Verdi soprano, but she makes more of the text than practically anyone and sings with rare intelligence.

Others I like.

Karajan on video with a superb team of soloists (Leontyne Price, Cossotto, the young Pavarotti in his prime and Ghiaurov again).
Muti live from Munich on youtube only with Jessye Norman fabulous in the soprano part, Baltsa, Carreras and Nesterenko.
Muti's first studio recording with Scotto (again a surprising choice, but almost as thrilling in her response to the text as Schwarzkopf), Baltsa again (possibly my favourite of all the mezzos), Carreras and Nesterenko.


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