# Herbert von Karajan, and Brahms’s First Piano Concerto



## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

I have two recordings of Karajan conducting Brahms’s Second Piano Concerto, Op. 83:

1958: Berlin Philharmonic, Hans Richter-Haaser (EMI)
1967: Berlin Philharmonic, Géza Anda (Deutsche Grammophon)
I don't know about live recordings, but these are the two recordings he made of the work in the recording studio. However, I don’t have any recordings of Karajan conducting the First Piano Concerto, Op. 15. Nor can I find any evidence that he ever conducted it in concert. It just doesn't seem to exist!

So, did he ever conduct this work? If not, do we have a reason he avoided a major work by a composer whose other works he conducted frequently (and well)? I'd love to know one way or the other.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Did Karajan ever record a Mozart piano concerto after the one with Lipatti? Rachmaninoff 3? He didn't record all that many piano concerti, probably clash of egos, although he recorded a few violin concerti with Ferras and many with Mutter.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Clash of egos is a good point. I'm sure he thought he could mold Mutter, so he still felt in total control (and perhaps he was, though Mutter did make some fine recordings with him). He did the Beethoven concerti with Weissenberg, though. I'm not aware of any other Mozart piano concerto recordings with Karajan, though there are a bunch of other instrumental concerti represented (the horn concerti with Brain and with Seifert, oboe, flute, clarinet, and bassoon concerti etc. with various soloists). There was a brief collaboration with Pogorelich which ended quickly and on a sour note. Kissin recorded Tchaikovsky's First with Karajan in 1988, near the end of Karajan's life. There was also Sviatoslav Richter in Tchaikovsky and the famous Beethoven triple concerto recording, Zimerman in Schumann and Grieg, and Zeltser in his later re-recording of the Beethoven Triple. To summarize, these pianists (to my knowledge) made concerto recordings in the studio with Karajan:

Weissenberg
Richter
Kissin
Anda
Richter-Haaser
Zeltser
Zimerman
Leimer
Lipatti
Gieseking
I see now that he recorded KV 488 in 1951 and KV 491 in 1953 with Gieseking and the Philharmonia Orchestra. Also KV 467 with Lipatti in Lucerne, 1950. But that's all I'm aware of in terms of Mozart piano concerti. I'm sure the list of pianists who only worked with him live in concert is much longer. 

So the ego clash hypothesis seems like a valid one, with the proviso that he was able to work with a bunch of pianists in other repertoire. However, it doesn't explain this specific hole in the Karajan legacy.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

It is a mystery why Karajan never recorded Brahms' _Piano Concerto No. 1_; the writer Richard Osborne, in his biography of Karajan, tells that whenever the matter on that specific work was raised, Karajan changed the subject, as if there were some kind of curse on it. 🤔


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

Monsalvat said:


> To summarize, these pianists (to my knowledge) made concerto recordings in the studio with Karajan:
> 
> Weissenberg
> Richter
> ...


By the way, there are also Gould (Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 3, live concert in 1957, Berlin) and Eschenbach (Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 1, DG recording)


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Lisztianwagner said:


> By the way, there are also Gould (Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 3, live concert in 1957, Berlin) and Eschenbach (Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 1, DG recording)


Thanks! Didn't know about either of these. I'll check out the Eschenbach first. Looks interesting.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I believe that I read on the Karajan site , he didn't like Chopin, I will search later for the reason,


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

At the beginning of chapter 54 of his Karajan biography, Richard Osborne says "No one knows why Karajan avoided the work; whenever the matter was raised, he always changed the subject, as though the piece was jinxed."


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Only with Weissenberg one could speak of an extended collaboration comparable to Ferras or Mutter. I think one can also pretty much discount the early recordings in the 40s/50s with Gieseking etc. because Karajan was a rising star then, not a dominant superstar who could do or avoid anything he wanted to.

Gould supposedly entertained the idea of re-recording all Beethoven concerti with Karajan in the early 1970s. But as Gould didn't want to travel, he suggested doing them separately and mixing together later which either Karajan or producer understandably refused, so it came to nothing. 
I actually don't think there needs to be a special explanation for the lack of Brahms' 1st. Maybe Karajan didn't care for the piece but as he didn't do that many accompaniments, it's not surprising that a few famous concerti are missing from the discography


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