# Franz Liszt



## Quartetfore

This year marks the 200th birth of Franz Liszt. There is no question that ranks as one if not the greatest piano player of all time. Do you lsten to his piano music at all, and how would you rate him among the great compsers of his time.


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## ozradio

I only recently started listening to Liszt; his symphonic poems, piano concertos, and piano sonata. I don't know them well enough yet to comment on them. I'd also appreciate others' thoughts on must-have pieces to add to my collection.


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## Tschaikowsky

I played most of the Hungarian Rhapsodies, particularly fond of #2 and 11. Also played Liebestraume, beautiful "romantic" piece. I also enjoy all of his works but especially Mephisto Waltz No. 1, Concerto No. 1, and Transcendental Etude No. 1.

Not sure we are allowed to link multiple YouTube links, so will only post one, the Mephisto Waltz No. 1.


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## jurianbai

maybe the only piano composer that I listen more than any. the paganinis, piano concerto, waltz. it was Richard Clayderman who first introduced him to me by Liebestraume, a bit tragic. the Mephisto Waltz violin transcribed is awesome too.


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## elgar's ghost

FERENC Liszt, please! After all, he was Magyar... 

As regards his solo piano music I love his Hungarian Rhapsodies and I also particularly like the Etudes, the sonata and his Rossini transcriptions.


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## Manxfeeder

I think Christus is marvelous; I like the way he writes for voices. I have his Hungarian Rhapsodies also. As for the rest of his pieces, I've ignored them until two months ago, so I'm slowly discovering his tone poems and piano pieces. It's been a pleasant surprise so far.


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## Aramis

MANY SIGNIFICANT ANNIVERSARIES THIS YEAR

Mahler in May, Liszt in December.



elgars ghost said:


> FERENC Liszt, please! After all, he was Magyar...


It is worthy


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## toucan

I think Liszt was an all around great man - un grand homme, homme superieur - but musically,
it is the late Liszt I am most likely to like and listen to. It is a deepened, almost despairing Liszt,
who has long ago let go of high society frivolities, vain ambitions & rivalries with the likes of Paganini. 
Good samples:




























Late in life Liszt also wrote a fine tone poem called *From the Cradle to the Grave*. Though
there are few recordings of this sadly neglected work, the extraordinary
performance by Toscanini makes up for the scarcity. If you like this piece you
probably will also like *Orpheus*, which it resembles and which Toscanini also recorded:










A bonus comes with this CD: Toscanini humming!


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## tchaik

Yes - Liszt ranks in my top 5! And there is so much to listen to - the transcendental etudes, the operatic transcriptions and so many smaller works....and his under-rated second piano concerto (I also like his tone poems..!)


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## Aramis

I was recently on all-Liszt concert with Les Preludes and both piano concertos performed by great pianist, Karol Radziwonowicz. It was great experience, these two concertos are essence of romanticism and Preludes are not that bad either.


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## violadude

Liszt is a composer I frequently go back and forth on. Sometimes I feel his music is really great and sometimes I think he is just trying too hard to be virtuostic with not enough musical content. 
One piece by Liszt that I consistently love is his Piano Sonata in b minor. The way he threads all those themes and motifs together is really amazing to me and it is the kind of thing I love about music.

I also admire him for being one of the first composers to "go all the way" so to speak in terms of harsh imagery. By that I mean this was a time in music where many composers where trying to depict dark themes in their music like Satanic rituals and ghosts and witches, but I feel like the composers before Liszt didn't do so good of a job at it. The last movement of the Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique sounds too cutesy to me to properly depict a witches sabbath. Saint-Saen's Danse Macabe is alright but I still feel like he's playing it safe. When Liszt wrote Totentanz though, I feel like he's the first one to just go all out and not be afraid to scare the crap out of his audience. It's the first piece in music that really sounds like something satanic to me.


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## hemidemisemiquaver

I recently found this article about him, and it is certainly a good read and thought-provoking analysis - it's yet to be understood what had a primary impact on Liszt developing his late aesthetics. If someone is into researches, I would recommend to write a 400-page book about it


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## solkorset

I've heard quite a lot by Liszt through the years but need to come back to him and focus my spiritual energy. I've never heard anything by him I like better than "La Lugubre Gondola" 1 and 2, especially no 2. He composed them in Venice as the news of Wagner's death reached him. This music is profound.


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## regressivetransphobe

It is my personal opinion that if you (in general, not anyone in the thread) think Liszt is all showoffy flash and no substance, you're listening wrong.


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## tdc

Liszt is a composer I have really enjoyed listening to of late. Particularly much of his music for solo piano as well as the first and second piano concertos. Definitely a lot of substance to this music, he was a great composer.


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## Moscow-Mahler

I bought recently my first recording of Liszt Piano Concerti (I have also his solo works with Jorge Bolet on a twoofer):









Joseph Moog - piano, Ari Rasilainen - conductor, Rheinland-Pfalz Orchestra

I like them, esp. the Second. Still, need to listen them more...


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## haydnfan

I only have the piano concertos and the piano sonata, but that is all about to change. I've ordered the collection which looks like an excellent bargain!










If you visit arkivmusic or UK amazon you can find a more detailed list of the works and performers.


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## regressivetransphobe

Moscow-Mahler said:


> I bought recently my first recording of Liszt Piano Concerti (I have also his solo works with Jorge Bolet on a twoofer):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Joseph Moog - piano, Ari Rasilainen - conductor, Rheinland-Pfalz Orchestra
> 
> I like them, esp. the Second. Still, need to listen them more...


That has got to be the most "indie movie" looking classical album cover I've ever seen.


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## Vaneyes

Speaking of Bolet, the Alto licensing from VOX and Everest is worthwhile.

http://www.musicalconcepts.net/ALC1011.html


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## Philip

_Les années de pèlerinage_ are my favourites


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## Lisztian

I must revive this magnificent, unparralelled thread 

I must state my absolute love affair with the Années de pèlerinage. To me, the greatest cycle(s) of piano pieces out there except for the Beethoven Sonatas, and the WTC. Here's the first year.


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## Lisztian

violadude said:


> I also admire him for being one of the first composers to "go all the way" so to speak in terms of harsh imagery. By that I mean this was a time in music where many composers where trying to depict dark themes in their music like Satanic rituals and ghosts and witches, but I feel like the composers before Liszt didn't do so good of a job at it. The last movement of the Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique sounds too cutesy to me to properly depict a witches sabbath. Saint-Saen's Danse Macabe is alright but I still feel like he's playing it safe. When Liszt wrote Totentanz though, I feel like he's the first one to just go all out and not be afraid to scare the crap out of his audience. It's the first piece in music that really sounds like something satanic to me.


I was listening to his _Dante Symphony_ today and I recalled this post (somehow, it was over a year ago). The first movement strikes me as another piece that goes 'all the way.' In fact i'd say it sounds significantly more 'satanic' than the Totentanz does (and in their respective final versions, was written earlier), and anything else before it.


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## Novelette

I have to agree that Années de pèlerinage is one of the finest, and most expressive, work(s) for the piano.

A piece that I have always enjoyed, although it is a fairly rare work, is his Grosses Konzertsolo, S 176! I dare say that the effects are almost symphonic in color and largeness.


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## DavidA

We simply do not know whether Liszt was the greatest piano player of all time as we have never heard him play. Certainly from his compositions he was an incredibly innovative writer for the piano. He expanded its range beyond anything it'd known before. The virtuosity of the pieces is incredible and that must give us some indication of what Liszt could do. Possibly the nearest pianist of modern times to compare with Liszt might be Cziffra. I love Liszt's piano music and the incredible virtuosity it involves. I also have the concertante works but the or gestural works have yet to find a place in my heart or collection.
Interestingly the first record of classical music I ever bought was of the list Hungarian fantasia which was linked with the performance of the Tchaikovsky concerto by the Amercan pianist Julius Katchen. That piece has always had a cherished place in my heart ever since. It really is tremendous when played with great virtuosity.


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## Vaneyes

I'll give Liszt numero uno distinction. A tireless performer...piano and women. :tiphat:


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## Guest

I love his music it. Sure, some of it is designed as simply show-off material, but the majority of his music has plenty of substance. Even the shallow stuff makes for fun listening!


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## Flamme

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## Vaneyes

Flamme said:


> View attachment 11371
> 
> ...


Panty-tossing days would come later, but sadly, not for Maestro.


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## elgar's ghost

One work of his which sounds intriguing but is seldom mentioned is his Seven Hungarian Historical Portraits, a late offering which I understand to be a collection of mini-elegies dedicated to Hungarian luminaries from the worlds of politics and the arts; of whom some died early and/or in tragic circumstances (two committed suicide and one allegedly killed in battle). I also want to get acquainted with his choral and organ output and a few more of his symphonic poems - I have some recordings pencilled in.


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## DeepR

Au Bord D'une Source is one of my favorites from Liszt and the rendition above by Andre Lapante is excellent IMO (starts at 11:05).


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## Lisztian

elgars ghost said:


> One work of his which sounds intriguing but is seldom mentioned is his Seven Hungarian Historical Portraits, a late offering which I understand to be a collection of mini-elegies dedicated to Hungarian luminaries from the worlds of politics and the arts; of whom some died early and/or in tragic circumstances (two committed suicide and one allegedly killed in battle). I also want to get acquainted with his choral and organ output and a few more of his symphonic poems - I have some recordings pencilled in.


Re the Historical Hungarian Portraits...I like them. They are very much in his late, 'bare bones' style -primitive and often simple, calculated, and almost always lugubrious in mood- and I think should be counted among his most affecting late works, but unfortunately they are almost never played (the only recording I know of is Leslie Howard, who was his typical reliable yet rather mediocre self).

Anyway, here's his recording on youtube: (from 5:25 - 28:20).


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## Lisztian

Novelette said:


> A piece that I have always enjoyed, although it is a fairly rare work, is his Grosses Konzertsolo, S 176! I dare say that the effects are almost symphonic in color and largeness.


I, too, enjoy this work. Although I sometimes only think of it as a precursor to the Sonata, it really is a very effective piece in its own right that must be considered among his very fine large scale solo piano works. Unfortunately I find both the revised version for two pianos and the late one for piano and orchestra to be less agreeable.


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## elgar's ghost

Lisztian said:


> Re the Historical Hungarian Portraits...I like them. They are very much in his late, 'bare bones' style -primitive and often simple, calculated, and almost always lugubrious in mood- and I think should be counted among his most affecting late works, but unfortunately they are almost never played (the only recording I know of is Leslie Howard, who was his typical reliable yet rather mediocre self).
> 
> Anyway, here's his recording on youtube: (from 5:25 - 28:20).


Thanks for the link. Howard's is one of only two recordings I can find - the other is by one Claudio Colombo but appears to be available on download only. On further investigation there seems to be some controversy with CC as regards the instrument on which he records his works - some people suggest he uses a digital piano which simulates the sound of older instruments.


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## Artikulus

I heard older recordings of Stanislav Yovanovitch recently and thought that was as close as possible to hearing Franz Liszt play. There are many examples from the 15 CD Yovanovitch complete recordings on Youtube which seem to capture the soul of Franz Liszt in an uncanny way. Heard last year in California, Yovanovitch playing the Liszt Sonata as related to Arthur Freidheim just before Liszt passed away, with important changes in the score. I understand a recording is of this is imminent. I also suggest you listen to the Liszt Benediction De Deiu Dans Le Solitude....


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## Alydon

I don't listen to much of Liszt's music. That he had a style all of his own there is no question, but there lies the problem for me. I went through a Liszt period as it were and did listen to a lot of his music, but I found his essential style maudlin and his harmonic language such that it rarely invited you back. As he was one of the greatest pianists of all time (and we can guess from the complexity of his work) much of this composer's work was geared for his own use and he maybe lost sight of how a wider audience and future generation would judge it - in simplistic terms the music (or much of it) is hard work for the listener, though I still listen to the Legendes and La Gugubre Gondola, but find the bulk of the other compositions on one level.
Liszt was a giant of a composer, but his light hasn't shone as brightly as for instance Schumann or Brahms - nothing to do with the fact he mainly composed for the piano but he has remained a musician's composer which is probably how he would like to be remembered.


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## moody

Alydon said:


> I don't listen to much of Liszt's music. That he had a style all of his own there is no question, but there lies the problem for me. I went through a Liszt period as it were and did listen to a lot of his music, but I found his essential style maudlin and his harmonic language such that it rarely invited you back. As he was one of the greatest pianists of all time (and we can guess from the complexity of his work) much of this composer's work was geared for his own use and he maybe lost sight of how a wider audience and future generation would judge it - in simplistic terms the music (or much of it) is hard work for the listener, though I still listen to the Legendes and La Gugubre Gondola, but find the bulk of the other compositions on one level.
> Liszt was a giant of a composer, but his light hasn't shone as brightly as for instance Schumann or Brahms - nothing to do with the fact he mainly composed for the piano but he has remained a musician's composer which is probably how he would like to be remembered.


i disagree completely with what you have to say. But this is well trodden ground so perhaps you would like to glance at the thread :Liszt Is the Most Underrated Composer On TC.


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## Alydon

An interesting thread and many good comments - I don't think of Liszt as underrated, just not as popular, indeed he is very highly rated by most of the people on TC and all serious music lovers. My point is there is something about much of Liszt's work which just do not have an appeal for the general listener, compounded by the fact that there are so many. Certainly Liszt was a great innovator who set new standards for the concert pianist and audience, but ultimately, was he composing for prosperity or for his own talents?


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## moody

Alydon said:


> An interesting thread and many good comments - I don't think of Liszt as underrated, just not as popular, indeed he is very highly rated by most of the people on TC and all serious music lovers. My point is there is something about much of Liszt's work which just do not have an appeal for the general listener, compounded by the fact that there are so many. Certainly Liszt was a great innovator who set new standards for the concert pianist and audience, but ultimately, was he composing for prosperity or for his own talents?


Both without doubt because at one time he was a travelling virtuoso pianist,but I think it is easy to spot which is which.What about the choral compositions ---hardly for his own talent??


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## Vaneyes

The Liszt nut may be easier to crack for some, if they can begin to realize and understand the era. I've always been a firm believer that creativity or newness breeds such, often in abundance. This was such an era. 

Berlioz (b. 1803) uniqueness can be seen as the bridge to furthering Romanticism. 

Mendelssohn (b. 1809), Schumann (b. 1810), Chopin (b. 1810), Liszt (b. 1811), Wagner (b. 1813), Verdi (b. 1813), born within four years of each other, propelled it further. Even when considering the relatively short lives of Mendelssohn, Schumann, and Chopin.

Liszt took piano composition deeper, to a more dramatic place, than it had ever been. Not that he didn't appreciate past--his many transcriptions illustrate that.


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## Vaneyes

moody said:


> Both without doubt because at one time he was a travelling virtuoso pianist,but I think it is easy to spot which is which.What about the choral compositions ---hardly for his own talent??


Surely not. Too, his Faust Symphony, Les Preludes, and other poems, show a seething orchestral greatness, that may be viewed as stunted growth, due to compositional and performance demands of piano. That's my spin on it, anyway. :tiphat:


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## Alydon

No, nor the orchestral works, but when we are talking in general terms I guess we think of the output for piano.


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## moody

Alydon said:


> No, nor the orchestral works, but when we are talking in general terms I guess we think of the output for piano.


We have covered that above.


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## moody

Vaneyes said:


> Surely not. Too, his Faust Symphony, Les Preludes, and other poems, show a seething orchestral greatness, that may be viewed as stunted growth, due to compositional and performance demands of piano. That's my spin on it, anyway. :tiphat:


Couldn't have put it better myself sir.


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## Ukko

Alydon said:


> An interesting thread and many good comments - I don't think of Liszt as underrated, just not as popular, indeed he is very highly rated by most of the people on TC and all serious music lovers. My point is there is something about much of Liszt's work which just do not have an appeal for the general listener, compounded by the fact that there are so many. Certainly Liszt was a great innovator who set new standards for the concert pianist and audience, but ultimately, was he composing for prosperity or for his own talents?


You seem to be casting yourself as "the general listener". Based on your posts in this thread, you are probably not; except that I'm not at all sure what your formula for "general listener" contains... .


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## Alydon

I would define 'general listener' (of classical music) as someone who enjoys but is not a particular expert - whether I'm one or not I wish not to judge.
As a note of interest in last years Hall of Fame on Classic FM, Liszt had one work voted in at 210 - there are 300 places.
In last years BBC Proms programmes, Liszt didn't have a single work featured - anywhere - just not popular and does not appeal to the general listener - I rest my case.


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## Vaneyes

As a general listener, how many cases have you laid to rest thus far?


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## moody

Alydon said:


> I would define 'general listener' (of classical music) as someone who enjoys but is not a particular expert - whether I'm one or not I wish not to judge.
> As a note of interest in last years Hall of Fame on Classic FM, Liszt had one work voted in at 210 - there are 300 places.
> In last years BBC Proms programmes, Liszt didn't have a single work featured - anywhere - just not popular and does not appeal to the general listener - I rest my case.


Classic FM would not do solo piano music unless it was something ghastly like Einaudi (is that the correct spelling ) and I would hardly quote them as a standard of excellence and I'll bet there were many composers missing from the Proms---they can't fit them all in.
I have 221 records of Liszt so therefore he must be popular!
You don't have to love Liszt but don't quote the general listener because that's very nebulous indeed.
My supplier has 155 pages of Liszt so that's not bad is it,I'll bet they are being bought by the general listener.


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## mensch

I attended a recital recently which featured only works by Liszt and the hall was completely packed. Though this might have had something to do with the fact that Valentina Lisitsa was the one playing and she has a crazy amount of followers on YouTube. Never seen such a enthusiastic audience, but I my guess is that a fair amount came to listen to Liszt.

This article sums up my views of Liszt quite nicely, but I think the author sells him short by stating he was a brilliant musician first and foremost. I think part of that conception is what has hindered his acceptance as a great composer somewhat. His virtuoso career demanded the output of the many elaborate fantasies on popular opera themes (which I think are at their best when taken in moderation), but on the other hand you have the Transcendental Etudes, Années de pèlerinage and the loving transcriptions of Schubert, Beethoven and other composers. There are also the works that excellently marry Liszt as a virtuoso with Liszt the composer, the Piano Sonata, Harmonies poetiques et religieuses and the Ballades are a good example in that regard.

I long held the opinion that Liszt was just a flash showman who displayed some hints of a mediocre Chopin when he was really trying, but I'm happy I made a full reversal on that point. Liszt can be this lyrical spirit who writes melodies full of fragile emotion, but his compositions adhering to the concept of "the piano as an orchestra" or even "the piano as a percussive instrument" are of equal beauty and importance.

Incidentally, has anybody heard this recording by by Pierre-Laurent Aimard. I think it's a very interesting collection showing the influence and visionary insight of Liszt. I just don't get his interpretation of the Sonata in B minor. I have a lot of respect for Aimard, but for some reason his technique doesn't work for the Sonata. While the melodic line is very, very clear, it all sounds so static.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> Classic FM would not do solo piano music unless it was something ghastly like Einaudi (is that the correct spelling ) and I would hardly quote them as a standard of excellence and I'll bet there were many composers missing from the Proms---they can't fit them all in.
> I have 221 records of Liszt so therefore he must be popular!
> You don't have to love Liszt but don't quote the general listener because that's very nebulous indeed.
> My supplier has 155 pages of Liszt so that's not bad is it,I'll bet they are being bought by the general listener.


A few minutes ago, Classic FM was playing Bach's Goldberg Variations.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> A few minutes ago, Classic FM was playing Bach's Goldberg Variations.


Yes,but that's in the evening according to the timing of your post. The daytime is fairly dreadful.I drove up to the doctor's surgery today and switched it on.Guess what--- the Ride of the Valkuries.


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## Guest

mensch said:


> Incidentally, has anybody heard this recording by by Pierre-Laurent Aimard. I think it's a very interesting collection showing the influence and visionary insight of Liszt. I just don't get his interpretation of the Sonata in B minor. I have a lot of respect for Aimard, but for some reason his technique doesn't work for the Sonata. While the melodic line is very, very clear, it all sounds so static.


It would be a fantastic collection if someone else were playing it! I wrote off Aimard after his colorless Gaspard de la Nuit recording a few years ago. His anti-septic approach to interpretation doesn't work for me.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> Yes,but that's in the evening according to the timing of your post. The daytime is fairly dreadful.I drove up to the doctor's surgery today and switched it on.Guess what--- the Ride of the Valkuries.


Yesterday morning included a partita by JS Bach played by Perahia, and a Waltz and polonaise by Chopin. A cello suite by Bach, pictures by Mussorsky, and a piano solo by Delibes. All perfectly good solo music. They don't only play rubbish.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Yesterday morning included a partita by JS Bach played by Perahia, and a Waltz and polonaise by Chopin. A cello suite by Bach, pictures by Mussorsky, and a piano solo by Delibes. All perfectly good solo music. They don't only play rubbish.


OK, they only play 85% rubbish,do you really want me to sit down and list the whole morning's playlist? I know what the result will be---also I'm not really interested in this subject and you are the only person who appears to be a fan that I have had contact with.This is the station that appears to think that the awful Katherine Jenkins and Alfie Boe are opera singers. What's wrong with BBC 3 which is far superior, unless of course you are a housewife.
I quote Polednice on this: " all you need is a teenager who happens to flick through some radio stations and is astonished by Radio 3 or,somewhat more tragically: Classic FM.


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## mensch

Kontrapunctus said:


> It would be a fantastic collection if someone else were playing it! I wrote off Aimard after his colorless Gaspard de la Nuit recording a few years ago. His anti-septic approach to interpretation doesn't work for me.


I haven't heard his Gaspard. But I guess his approach does indeed work for specific composers, it works well for his Ligeti, I think.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> OK, they only play 85% rubbish,do you really want me to sit down and list the whole morning's playlist? I know what the result will be---also I'm not really interested in this subject and you are the only person who appears to be a fan that I have had contact with.This is the station that appears to think that the awful Katherine Jenkins and Alfie Boe are opera singers. What's wrong with BBC 3 which is far superior, unless of course you are a housewife.
> I quote Polednice on this: " all you need is a teenager who happens to flick through some radio stations and is astonished by Radio 3 or,somewhat more tragically: Classic FM.


Some of the absolutely awful music I hear on Radio 3 makes me turn with relief to Classic FM. At least you know there that the rubbish isn't going to last too long.


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## Alydon

I have to add that David Mellor's programmes on Classic FM have been some of the most informative I've ever heard, and that is someone who grew up with Radio 3. Not only has Mr Mellor come up with many new pieces (I'd certainly never heard before) but has played some rare and historic recordings, including many for the piano. 
Like the Third Programme in its hayday, as Radio 3 was originally called, Classic FM has brought classical music to a huge audience, many of whom would never have entertained listening to this type of music before and its promotion of music in an accessible and exciting way must be praised.
I think we all accept Classic FM is not quite as well informed as Radio 3 on certian aspects of music, but it has proved itself and risen above the silly **** musical snobbery and elitism which is exactly the attitude which has probably turned many away from classical music itself.


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## Ukko

Is this "silly **** musical snobbery and elitism" a British thing?


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## Alydon

From where I'm sitting it seems to be - but I'm in Britain.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Some of the absolutely awful music I hear on Radio 3 makes me turn with relief to Classic FM. At least you know there that the rubbish isn't going to last too long.


Yes,you're correct re>Mr.Mellor's programme but isn't that at the weekwnd and of course he's a Stokowski fan.


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## moody

Alydon said:


> I have to add that David Mellor's programmes on Classic FM have been some of the most informative I've ever heard, and that is someone who grew up with Radio 3. Not only has Mr Mellor come up with many new pieces (I'd certainly never heard before) but has played some rare and historic recordings, including many for the piano.
> Like the Third Programme in its hayday, as Radio 3 was originally called, Classic FM has brought classical music to a huge audience, many of whom would never have entertained listening to this type of music before and its promotion of music in an accessible and exciting way must be praised.
> I think we all accept Classic FM is not quite as well informed as Radio 3 on certian aspects of music, but it has proved itself and risen above the silly **** musical snobbery and elitism which is exactly the attitude which has probably turned many away from classical music itself.


I am 75 years old and do not recognise your talk of snobbery and elitism that you say abounds.
If false information,lack of knowledge,mispronounciation and ignorance is praiseworthy---good !
Natalie Wheen : "What would Schubert know of the countryside and the hills, he lived in Vienna" .
If you want to spend the day listening to nothing but ear candy and furthermore the same stuff day in and day out ,go right ahead there is nothing wrong with that ,but where will it get you ?


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## Alydon

It's obviously got many people a long way along the road on the journey to a love of classical music. I'm not quite 75 years old, but I grew up with Radio 3 which proved an indispensible source on my love of music - maybe now Classic FM is doing that job as well. I remember well the 'serious music establishment' mocking the lack of knowledge, programming and presenter's mispronounciation in the press and elsewhere, but as I have said the station has proved it has a valid, worthwhile place which has enriched many lives, and has sharpened up its style from the early days
I respect your views but listen to Classic FM. I also listen to Radio 3 and listen to a bit of Liszt as well.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> Yes,you're correct re>Mr.Mellor's programme but isn't that at the weekwnd and of course he's a Stokowski fan.


Sokowski fan? What on earth has that to do with anything. So what? John Suchet is a Beethoven fan. He appears on Classic FM.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> I am 75 years old and do not recognise your talk of snobbery and elitism that you say abounds.
> If false information,lack of knowledge,mispronounciation and ignorance is praiseworthy---good !
> Natalie Wheen : "What would Schubert know of the countryside and the hills, he lived in Vienna" .
> If you want to spend the day listening to nothing but ear candy and furthermore the same stuff day in and day out ,go right ahead there is nothing wrong with that ,but where will it get you ?


Frankly I see it in this post of yours.

You appear to have a strange logic and fixated ideas. You appear to think that because someone listens to Classic FM on the way home from work in the car then they have a fixation on it and spend all the time listening to nothing else. I don' t 'listen to the same stuff day in and day out' - I listen to music in many different ways of which Classic FM is just one.

And even if someone does spend their time listening to Classic FM why do people like you despise them and look down on them. I have friends who share very different musical tastes but it does not make me despise them. S get down from your musical high horse, please!


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> Frankly I see it in this post of yours.
> 
> You appear to have a strange logic and fixated ideas. You appear to think that because someone listens to Classic FM on the way home from work in the car then they have a fixation on it and spend all the time listening to nothing else. I don' t 'listen to the same stuff day in and day out' - I listen to music in many different ways of which Classic FM is just one.
> 
> And even if someone does spend their time listening to Classic FM why do people like you despise them and look down on them. I have friends who share very different musical tastes but it does not make me despise them. S get down from your musical high horse, please!


"You appear to have" the notion that by not-so-very-subtly twisting the sense of posts expressing opposing views, you can 'win the day'. Don't you realize that the original posts are still there, beyond your power to edit them?


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Sokowski fan? What on earth has that to do with anything. So what? John Suchet is a Beethoven fan. He appears on Classic FM.


That was what is known as a humerous aside--in this case I should have known better.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Frankly I see it in this post of yours.
> 
> You appear to have a strange logic and fixated ideas. You appear to think that because someone listens to Classic FM on the way home from work in the car then they have a fixation on it and spend all the time listening to nothing else. I don' t 'listen to the same stuff day in and day out' - I listen to music in many different ways of which Classic FM is just one.
> 
> And even if someone does spend their time listening to Classic FM why do people like you despise them and look down on them. I have friends who share very different musical tastes but it does not make me despise them. S get down from your musical high horse, please!


One thing I can say about you is that you are constant. You either don't bother reading posts properly or as suggested by Hilltroll twist them.
What I actually said was that Classic FM plays the same hackneyed stuff day in and day out.That they were faulty in much of what they dish out as information,etc.etc.I have never come across serious music lovers who have a good word to say about them---until you two of course.
Incidentally,the old hopeful saying that listening to pop classic bleeding chunks lesds to better things is false---it doesn't.
I listen to Classic FM in the car from time to time or I could make no comment about the programme,could I?
Who are people like me, I think you have no idea who I am or what I think and I should warn you to be careful regarding personal remarks.
I despise nobody and look down on nobody---except of course pretentious twits.
You make no comment on the Jenkins,Alfie Boe,and other horrors presented as classical music--by the way I see that they are now into online dating anything for a fast buck do you think ??
They proudly announce that "SONGS" from Swan Lake,Jurassic Park and Carmen were in the top 250 last year---how do you defend that ?
Last years top ten were >
Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2, VAughan-Williams The Lark Ascending. Vaughan-Williams Fantasy On a Theme Of Thomas Tallis. Beethoven Emperor Concerto. Mealor Wherever You Are. Mozart Clarinet Concerto. Beethoven Pastoral Symphony. Elgar Enigma Variations. Beethoven Choral symphony. Elgar Cello Concerto.
All of this is good stuff ,but progressing forward---not really.
Now I'm finished with this,it is supposed to be a thread about Liszt.
You may naturally carry on to your heart's content.
Remember that a great many members don't know what we are talking about.


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## deggial

Alydon said:


> I would define 'general listener' (of classical music) as someone who enjoys but is not a particular expert - whether I'm one or not I wish not to judge.
> As a note of interest in last years Hall of Fame on Classic FM, Liszt had one work voted in at 210 - there are 300 places.
> In last years BBC Proms programmes, Liszt didn't have a single work featured - anywhere - just not popular and does not appeal to the general listener - I rest my case.


this reminds me of USA top 40 vs. UK top 40 - some things chart better in some places than in others. I bet you anything Liszt is a lot better known/more listened to than say, Elgar, in Eastern Europe.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> That was what is known as a humerous aside--in this case I should have known better.


Oh. Lead balloon humour!


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## DavidA

moody said:


> One thing I can say about you is that you are constant. You either don't bother reading posts properly or as suggested by Hilltroll twist them.
> What I actually said was that Classic FM plays the same hackneyed stuff day in and day out.That they were faulty in much of what they dish out as information,etc.etc.I have never come across serious music lovers who have a good word to say about them---until you two of course.
> Incidentally,the old hopeful saying that listening to pop classic bleeding chunks lesds to better things is false---it doesn't.
> I listen to Classic FM in the car from time to time or I could make no comment about the programme,could I?
> Who are people like me, I think you have no idea who I am or what I think and I should warn you to be careful regarding personal remarks.
> I despise nobody and look down on nobody---except of course pretentious twits.
> You make no comment on the Jenkins,Alfie Boe,and other horrors presented as classical music--by the way I see that they are now into online dating anything for a fast buck do you think ??
> They proudly announce that "SONGS" from Swan Lake,Jurassic Park and Carmen were in the top 250 last year---how do you defend that ?
> Last years top ten were >
> Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2, VAughan-Williams The Lark Ascending. Vaughan-Williams Fantasy On a Theme Of Thomas Tallis. Beethoven Emperor Concerto. Mealor Wherever You Are. Mozart Clarinet Concerto. Beethoven Pastoral Symphony. Elgar Enigma Variations. Beethoven Choral symphony. Elgar Cello Concerto.
> All of this is good stuff ,but progressing forward---not really.
> Now I'm finished with this,it is supposed to be a thread about Liszt.
> You may naturally carry on to your heart's content.
> Remember that a great many members don't know what we are talking about.


I believe it was you who brought up Classic FM on this particular thread. I just sought to correct your erroneous statement.

By the way I have no interest whatsoever in the Jenkins Alfie Boe other such things as I never listen to. As for the people who do well it's no crime apart from to musical snobs who look down on them.

So last year's top 10 was good was it? Just how would you suggest such music presses forward as it was all written in the past?
But perhaps it's now a crime to listen to it? Oh dear I will have to get rid of my copies of Beethoven's ninth symphony because people like you say it's not progressing!


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## Alydon

I'm happy to report that I switched on Classic FM this morning and the first piece I heard was a piano work by Liszt, and they pronounced his name correctly!


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## deggial

^ honest question: what is the incorrect pronunciation?


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## Alydon

deggial said:


> this reminds me of USA top 40 vs. UK top 40 - some things chart better in some places than in others. I bet you anything Liszt is a lot better known/more listened to than say, Elgar, in Eastern Europe.


Classic FM has many listeners to vote in its chart (poll) around 5 million at present, and growing - but I agree with what you're saying.


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## Lisztian

This thread has gotten a little out of hand...



Alydon said:


> I don't listen to much of Liszt's music. That he had a style all of his own there is no question, but there lies the problem for me. I went through a Liszt period as it were and did listen to a lot of his music, but I found his essential style maudlin and his harmonic language such that it rarely invited you back. As he was one of the greatest pianists of all time (and we can guess from the complexity of his work) much of this composer's work was geared for his own use and he maybe lost sight of how a wider audience and future generation would judge it - in simplistic terms the music (or much of it) is hard work for the listener, though I still listen to the Legendes and La Gugubre Gondola, but find the bulk of the other compositions on one level.
> Liszt was a giant of a composer, but his light hasn't shone as brightly as for instance Schumann or Brahms - nothing to do with the fact he mainly composed for the piano but he has remained a musician's composer which is probably how he would like to be remembered.


I thought this was a good, honest post...I do disagree with most of what you say. I think that there is quite a lot of Liszt that he wrote to show off his abilities as a virtuoso, but I find this to mainly be his early operatic fantasies (and not all of them). The pianistic ingenuity he developed from being such a great pianist permeates much of his more 'noble' work, but I find the more you listen to them the more you realise he meant it all in a purely musical way (works considered showpieces like his first Mephisto Waltz and his Totentanz are, IMO, to be taken very seriously indeed). He was a revolutionary composer in that he often focused more on 'sound' than what was considered to be the be all and end all of music to that point - harmony and melody, and it's inevitable he sometimes lost sight of the latter. It's in this way that he was perhaps the closest 19th century composer to 20th century music and innovation. That being said, he was also one of the most harmonically innovative composers of his day, and this was right from the start: right from the first version of Pensee des Morts (1833) through the Faust and Dante Symphonies, the Weinen Klagen variations, his choral work Via Crucis, his late works, and much in-between.

I think that a problem with Liszt is that he just wrote too much. It's not really a problem with him but rather us - it can be hard to dig through. I think that a fair portion of his music is perfunctory, but that isn't any fault on Liszt's part but rather because a lot of what he wrote he really wasn't that interested in as a serious artist, but was necessary because of his position and disposition.

I think that if you can find the more important works and accept the other ones for what they are, often either experimental, too rhetorical or perfunctory (but still sometimes very enjoyable), that's when one can see him as the great and versatile composer, and perhaps overworked human being that he was.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> I believe it was you who brought up Classic FM on this particular thread. I just sought to correct your erroneous statement.
> 
> By the way I have no interest whatsoever in the Jenkins Alfie Boe other such things as I never listen to. As for the people who do well it's no crime apart from to musical snobs who look down on them.
> 
> So last year's top 10 was good was it? Just how would you suggest such music presses forward as it was all written in the past?
> But perhaps it's now a crime to listen to it? Oh dear I will have to get rid of my copies of Beethoven's ninth symphony because people like you say it's not progressing!


I said that I was finished with this nonsense but cannot let this post of yours stand.
Firstly it was Alydon who threw Classic FM into the pot,so you were not correcting any erroneus s tatement of mine were you 
Secondly my comment on last year's top ten was :" all of this is good stuff ,but progressing forward---not really."
Lastly,I am glad to see that Lisztian turned up like a knight errant to sum up the Liszt situation ,once again---I wonder how many of the compositions he mentions either you or Alydon are familiar with ?


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## DavidA

moody said:


> I said that I was finished with this nonsense but cannot let this post of yours stand.
> Firstly it was Alydon who threw Classic FM into the pot,so you were not correcting any erroneus s tatement of mine were you
> Secondly my comment on last year's top ten was :" all of this is good stuff ,but progressing forward---not really."
> Lastly,I am glad to see that Lisztian turned up like a knight errant to sum up the Liszt situation ,once again---I wonder how many of the compositions he mentions either you or Alydon are familiar with ?


Don't worry friend - you will not finish with nonsense!

I was actually correcting an erroneous statement of yours about Classic FM.

As to your statement about progression - I was pointing out it is meaningless and it is!

I am familiar with quite a bit of Liszt as he is a favourite composer of mine as a composer for piano. In fact, the first classical record I ever bought (over 50 years ago) was the American pianist, Julius Katchen. He was playing the Tchaikovsky 1 but as back-up there was Liszt's Hungarian Fantasia. I have loved Liszt's music ever since and have his piano works played by Cziffra, Ciccolini, Ogden, Richter, Argerich, Howard, Freiere and others.
I must confess I don't get on so well wi the purely orchestral pieces as one misses the brilliance of his piano writing.
One work I will not return to is the Via Crucis which I heard my wife's choir sing once and seemed somewhat interminable.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Don't worry friend - you will not finish with nonsense!
> 
> I was actually correcting an erroneous statement of yours about Classic FM.
> 
> As to your statement about progression - I was pointing out it is meaningless and it is!
> 
> I am familiar with quite a bit of Liszt as he is a favourite composer of mine as a composer for piano. In fact, the first classical record I ever bought (over 50 years ago) was the American pianist, Julius Katchen. He was playing the Tchaikovsky 1 but as back-up there was Liszt's Hungarian Fantasia. I have loved Liszt's music ever since and have his piano works played by Cziffra, Ciccolini, Ogden, Richter, Argerich, Howard, Freiere and others.
> I must confess I don't get on so well wi the purely orchestral pieces as one misses the brilliance of his piano writing.
> One work I will not return to is the Via Crucis which I heard my wife's choir sing once and seemed somewhat interminable.


OK, I cannot penetrate the wall so I really give up this time !


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## Alydon

moody said:


> ---I wonder how many of the compositions he mentions either you or Alydon are familiar with ?


A very close friend of mine was brave enough to invest in the Leslie Howard complete edition on Hyperion and have a copy of the Dante symphony et al - remember going to see recitals by John Ogdon, Alfred Brendel etc, all playing Liszt ... so quite familiar with a lot of Liszt's works.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> OK, I cannot penetrate the wall so I really give up this time !


What wall? There is no wall. People having different opinions doesn't create a wall unless they allow it to.


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> What wall? There is no wall. People having different opinions doesn't create a wall unless they allow it to.


Walls are created by that old bugaboo 'ad hominem'. You are a practitioner, of the type that uses _accrued syllabication_ as camouflage.

 Hey, there's a term that illustrates the process! My day is made.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> Walls are created by that old bugaboo 'ad hominem'. You are a practitioner, of the type that uses _accrued syllabication_ as camouflage.
> 
> Hey, there's a term that illustrates the process! My day is made.


It would help if you :
1. Knew what the term meant
2. Used it correctly


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> It would help if you :
> 1. Knew what the term meant
> 2. Used it correctly


Help you? Probably not.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> Help you? Probably not.


Certainly not with vocabulary.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Certainly not with vocabulary.


Why don't you give it a break ?


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> Certainly not with vocabulary.


Hmm. You seem to be generating a lot of posts, none of them of greater value than the one quoted. I know of a poster on rec.music.classical.recordings with a similar Quality Quotient. I don't recall the exact spelling of his moniker, but it's an approximation of Ambrose Bierce. Perhaps you are that guy?

Sorry if I seem to be invading your privacy; you really don't have to come clean.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> Hmm. You seem to be generating a lot of posts, none of them of greater value than the one quoted. I know of a poster on rec.music.classical.recordings with a similar Quality Quotient. I don't recall the exact spelling of his moniker, but it's an approximation of Ambrose Bierce. Perhaps you are that guy?
> 
> Sorry if I seem to be invading your privacy; you really don't have to come clean.


I note you have 3,888 posts here. I'll agree you go in for quantity. One thing you don't lack whatever other shortcomings.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> Why don't you give it a break ?


Physician heal thyself!


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> I note you have 3,888 posts here. I'll agree you go in for quantity. One thing you don't lack whatever other shortcomings.


I've been here way longer than you have, Ambrose; and of course I am much wittier. Your ad hominems are so thinly disguised that the cork is showing.

 Wow, another brilliant riposte. I'm on a roll!


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## moody

DavidA said:


> I note you have 3,888 posts here. I'll agree you go in for quantity. One thing you don't lack whatever other shortcomings.


This makes no sense---as normal.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> This makes no sense---as normal.


You should know, you appear to be an expert practitioner.


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## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> I've been here way longer than you have, Ambrose; and of course I am much wittier. Your ad hominems are so thinly disguised that the cork is showing.
> 
> Wow, another brilliant riposte. I'm on a roll!


Don't you kid yourself!

'The fool is wiser in his own eyes than ten men who answer discretely'


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## Novelette

What does everyone think of Leslie Howard's performances?

I realize that it's been discussed a good few times, and the opinion is generally negative.

Nevertheless, these performances by Howard I believe to be magisterial:

- Grosses Konzertsolo, S 176
- Ballade #2 in B Minor, S 171
- Le Triomphe Funèbre Du Tasse, S 517
- Gretchen Aus Faust-Symphonie, S 513

I'm also partial to Howard's performance of the B Minor Sonata.


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## DavidA

Novelette said:


> What does everyone think of Leslie Howard's performances?
> 
> I realize that it's been discussed a good few times, and the opinion is generally negative.
> 
> Nevertheless, these performances by Howard I believe to be magisterial:
> 
> - Grosses Konzertsolo, S 176
> - Ballade #2 in B Minor, S 171
> - Le Triomphe Funèbre Du Tasse, S 517
> - Gretchen Aus Faust-Symphonie, S 513
> 
> I'm also partial to Howard's performance of the B Minor Sonata.


I have the Ballade in my collection. It's good. One of the best out there.

I have not heard him in any of the other works.


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## mensch

Novelette said:


> What does everyone think of Leslie Howard's performances?


I think his complete recordings is quite a feat, as it allows us to listen to the rarely recorded pieces as well. I've often seen people refer to Howard as a relatively mediocre pianist compared to other interpreters and the fact that the boxset recordings were sped up to coincide with the 200th anniversary of Liszt and that the later recordings therefore lacked in quality.

I'm interested to know which performances of Howard are generally considered to be subpar, just to compare them against other pianists. I've swapped recordings with Argerich for the Sonata in B minor recently, but that's not to say Howard's intepretation is awful or anything.


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## DavidA

mensch said:


> I think his complete recordings is quite a feat, as it allows us to listen to the rarely recorded pieces as well. I've often seen people refer to Howard as a relatively mediocre pianist compared to other interpreters and the fact that the boxset recordings were sped up to coincide with the 200th anniversary of Liszt and that the later recordings therefore lacked in quality.
> 
> I'm interested to know which performances of Howard are generally considered to be subpar, just to compare them against other pianists. I've swapped recordings with Argerich for the Sonata in B minor recently, but that's not to say Howard's intepretation is awful or anything.


Most opinion on Howard seems to be that he's never less than good and sometimes very good. But on the major works not up there with the very best.


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## Ukko

DavidA said:


> Most opinion on Howard seems to be that he's never less than good and sometimes very good. But on the major works not up there with the very best.


That opinion seems to be the 'general' one. I consider his playing to be in the 'competent' class. I also suspect that some of the down-putting is caused by the second rate Liszt included in the everything-Liszt project. Liszt didn't have the Brahmsian habit of discarding efforts that he decided were not up to snuff. Hmm... or maybe he didn't think there were any?


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## Lisztian

Novelette said:


> - Le Triomphe Funèbre Du Tasse, S 517


Indeed, and this is a wonderful work! Too bad it and the other funeral odes aren't that well known. From what i've heard and remember at the present time, here are some other works I think he's very good-great in:

Apparition No. 1.
Ballade No. 1.
Pensée des morts.
Sarabande and Chaconne from Handel's opera Almira.
Mephisto Waltz No. 2.
Litanies de Marie.
Am Rhein im schönen Strome.
Der du von dem Himmel bist.
Réminiscences de Norma.
Illustrations de l'Africaine No. 1.
A la chapelle Sixtine.
Drei Stücke aus der heilige Elisabeth No. 1.

Of course, the thing with most of these is that there is very little - no competition. It would be great if there were more recordings of the pieces...In general I consider Howard to be reliable and usually good, but in the pieces that he has company in, rarely my one of my first choices.


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## Larkenfield




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## drmdjones

It's pronounced "Fliszt" after Victor Borge


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## Guest

Are there noteworthy recordings of the music of Liszt performed on a period piano?


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## Mandryka

Yes this


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## Guest

Gloriously out of print, I see....


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## Guest

I think my favorite performer of Liszt is Bolet, and part of it is that he performs on a Baldwin piano, is not as resonant as a standard Steinway. That leads me to think Liszt on a period piano might appeal to me.


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## Mandryka

Can’t you download the Bonatta?


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## Larkenfield

Stunning performance.


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## Vahe Sahakian

Trifonov's first concert performance of Liszt Transcendental Etudes was exceptional, it was available on YouTube for a while, I do not recall the location of that performance, the one in France is a more recent recital and in my opinion not as successful as his early efforts, listening to this performance I get a feeling that the pianist is set to break speed records at the expense on music.


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## Larkenfield

Vahe Sahakian said:


> Trifonov's first concert performance of Liszt Transcendental Etudes was exceptional, it was available on YouTube for a while, I do not recall the location of that performance, the one in France is a more recent recital and in my opinion not as successful as his early efforts, listening to this performance I get a feeling that the pianist is set to break speed records at the expense on music.


Yes, I understand there was another performance. Would love to hear it. In case no one has mentioned it, he's also recorded them for DG and I might be compelled to get it: https://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2217687

He has the greatest combination of virtuosity and artistry that I've heard in my lifetime. Yuja Wang can match him in virtuosity but not, I feel, in her depth of artistry which I sometimes find shallow or hit and miss. Personal opinion.


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## Vahe Sahakian

I do have his DG recording of of Transcendental Etudes. I sometimes wish that Volodos would take up the challenge, his performance of Dante sonata offers a pretty good clue of what we can expect from him.


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## JAS

I have been listening to Liszt transcriptions of the 9 Beethoven symphonies, very well presented by Cyprien Katsaris. (I heard part of one on the radio, and was impressed by the ability of both the transcriber and performer to render so much of the color of the symphonies on a piano. I presume that these are pieces that demand an exceptional performer to pull off.) 

I was also interested in Liszt's transcriptions of Wagner. There seem to be a number of options. A set by Campanella appears to have made a generally favorable impression, and has the added interest, I gather, of having been played on one of Wagner's own pianos. 

Any recommendations in regard to the the opera transcriptions on CD?


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## DavidA

JAS said:


> I have been listening to Liszt transcriptions of the 9 Beethoven symphonies, very well presented by Cyprien Katsaris. (I heard part of one on the radio, and was impressed by the ability of both the transcriber and performer to render so much of the color of the symphonies on a piano. I presume that these are pieces that demand an exceptional performer to pull off.)
> 
> I was also interested in Liszt's transcriptions of Wagner. There seem to be a number of options. A set by Campanella appears to have made a generally favorable impression, and has the added interest, I gather, of having been played on one of Wagner's own pianos.
> 
> Any recommendations in regard to the the opera transcriptions on CD?


Glenn Gould recorded an incredible performance of the sixth symphony transcription which is a must for pianophiles.


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## elgar's ghost

Campanella on Brilliant is also worthwhile because it includes the Verdi transcriptions as well as the Wagner. I don't go in for various recordings but I would have thought that William Wolfram's recordings of the Bellini and Donizetti transcriptions on Naxos are worth looking into.


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## Caryatid

Not Wagner, but some of the Italian opera fantasies have been played very well by the British virtuoso pianist Mark Viner.


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## ZeR0

I have deep respect for Liszt, not only for his compositions but also for his legacy as a piano teacher. I particularly like his solo piano work and consider him among the very best composers for the instrument of the 19th century.


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## Caryatid

Liszt is an acquired taste - but it's worth acquiring!


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## Allegro Con Brio

His great B Minor Sonata is one of my favorite artistic works of the Romantic Period, a towering achievement by any standard. But I run hot and cold with the rest of his piano music. I like the etudes, consolations, and a few others but find a lot of it to be pure bombast. At his best he fuses Romantic muscle and lyricism into a perfect mold. Extremely underrated are his choral works, including the shockingly progressive Via Crucis and the huge but admirable oratorio Christus. They really show you a different side of the composer.


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## Open Lane

Absolutely adore Liszt. It's funny, the first album i purchased with his music was his orchestral stuff that i recognized hearing during firework displays... i really hated it. I'm glad i got some of his piano work. I am crazy about it. Sooooo good. I
My favorite discs of it are when performed by Kissin or Cziffra


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## DavidA

Allegro Con Brio said:


> His great B Minor Sonata is one of my favorite artistic works of the Romantic Period, a towering achievement by any standard. But I run hot and cold with the rest of his piano music. I like the etudes, consolations, and a few others but find a lot of it to be pure bombast. At his best he fuses Romantic muscle and lyricism into a perfect mold. Extremely underrated are his choral works, including the shockingly progressive Via Crucis and the huge but admirable oratorio Christus. They really show you a different side of the composer.


'Progressive' is not the word I would use for the Via Crucis after sitting through a performance of it. Interminable maybe?


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## SanAntone

Allegro Con Brio said:


> His great B Minor Sonata is one of my favorite artistic works of the Romantic Period, a towering achievement by any standard. But I run hot and cold with the rest of his piano music. I like the etudes, consolations, and a few others but find a lot of it to be pure bombast. At his best he fuses Romantic muscle and lyricism into a perfect mold. Extremely underrated are his choral works, including the shockingly progressive Via Crucis and the huge but admirable oratorio Christus. They really show you a different side of the composer.


I agree with your assessments.

From 2015-2016 I compiled from various sources, CDs, streaming, YouTube about 250 extant recordings of the B Minor Sonata and went through them with a rating system divided up into 11 sections of the work. I put the data into an Excel spread sheet and sorted it according to the overall score. I had it about 95% of it done when my flash drive with the data glitched and I lost all but the last update with about 40% of the data.

I always planned on just doing it all again but my life took a detour. Only now that I am retired am I going back and getting back into it.

_Via Crucis_ is an amazing work, Reinbert de Leeuw has done it three times, including the piano-only version. All are worth hearing.






I bit the bullet and bought the Hyperion big box, I am a Liszt solo piano fan - his orchestral music hasn't gotten through to me, but I am not a fan of orchestral music by any composer. But the choral music, and the songs, the organ music.

Liszt is among my top ten composers.


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## mparta

It's just that he veres off into the unacceptable sometimes. Listening to a Marston box of Jorge Bolet, which is golden age pianism (whatever age has Bolet, that's the golden age) and he plays the emetic Don Giovanni Fantasy or impressions or whatever it is. For all the "non gustibus.." thought in the world, it is the crassest, most distasteful display of pianistic gunk I know. What is wrong with the person who could write that?
But....
Just listened to Borowsky's Hungarian Rhapsodies this morning and very enjoyable, a little off the wall occasionally but with a tasteful pianist, very nice. I like Denis Pascal's recording also, and everyone should hear that compilation of 19 different pianists going through the set, some great (and not so great) playing but all interesting. 
There's a good Southern phrase for what he does with the Don Giovanni misfire, but part of the package I guess. I grew up with a Berman recording of the Sonata and was always perplexed by the pounding. Still am when the passages that (unfortunately) lend themselves to that are not handled well. For all of Marc Andre-Hamelin's mastery, I think his Hungarian Rhapsody 2 is nausea inducing. More not more, more calls for Ipecac.


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