# Classical Psychedelia



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What composers and/or compositions do you find to be psychedelic?

Debussy and Stravinsky come to mind right away. There is something about the chords that make up their music and melodies used that make them sound extra vibrant and colorful which are terms I used to describe psychedelic music.

You?


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What composers and/or compositions do you find to be psychedelic?
> 
> Debussy and Stravinsky come to mind right away. There is something about the chords that make up their music and melodies used that make them sound extra vibrant and colorful which are terms I used to describe psychedelic music.
> 
> You?


There are no composers or compositions which I find to be psychedelic...none...and not even close.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Much of Olivier Messiaen's music strikes my ears as "psychedelic", if we utilize the term in a common usage such as to describe music by, say, Jefferson Airplane or 13th Floor Elevators. I don't know if Messiaen used drugs, but the sense that is present in psychedelic rock of it presenting a representation of psychedelic culture (as centred around perception-altering hallucinogenic drugs) seems to burst forth from Messiaen's orchestral music. There is that sense of the exotic, the fantastical, the spiritual, the erotic, and of a lot of colors.

Too, we might listen to Scriabin with such ears. And, again, I don't know if Scriabin used drugs. But the music sounds like he may have, though I honestly don't believe one could write such complex beautiful music while on drugs. But I may be wrong.

I won't get into Berlioz and the _Sinfonie Fantastique_, but it presents possibilities.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Scriabin, Debussy


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

With the higher-quality materials (Owsley-quality acid, for example) Bach keyboard works are often found rewarding.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> With the higher-quality materials (Owsley-quality acid, for example) Bach keyboard works are often found rewarding.


lol, hahaha :lol: :lol:


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I started to make a list in my head but it began to seem like a bigger question might be "what music don't I find psychedelic?" Music that is filled with detail and life - which is most classical music - could be thought of as psychedelic, couldn't it?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> Much of Olivier Messiaen's music strikes my ears as "psychedelic", if we utilize the term in a common usage such as to describe music by, say, Jefferson Airplane or 13th Floor Elevators. I don't know if Messiaen used drugs, but the sense that is present in psychedelic rock of it presenting a representation of psychedelic culture (as centred around perception-altering hallucinogenic drugs) seems to burst forth from Messiaen's orchestral music. There is that sense of the exotic, the fantastical, the spiritual, the erotic, and of a lot of colors.
> 
> Too, we might listen to Scriabin with such ears. And, again, I don't know if Scriabin used drugs. But the music sounds like he may have, though I honestly don't believe one could write such complex beautiful music while on drugs. But I may be wrong.
> 
> I won't get into Berlioz and the _Sinfonie Fantastique_, but it presents possibilities.


I don't think one has to use drugs to create psychedelic music, though traditionally speaking they go hand in hand. Messiaen is cool, thanks for sharing! I hadn't heard of him before.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> I started to make a list in my head but it began to seem like a bigger question might be "what music don't I find psychedelic?" Music that is filled with detail and life - which is most classical music - could be thought of as psychedelic, couldn't it?


I focus on subjective appraisal of concepts of color and vibrancy attached to a piece in determining it's psychedelic nature. Messiaen is a good example imo.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think use of dissonance/atonality lends itself to a psychedelic nature.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

I think the only right answer to this question is the Agnus Dei from vol. 2 of George Crumb's Makrokosmos... especially if one reads along with the score.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What composers and/or compositions do you find to be psychedelic?
> 
> There is something about the chords that make up their music and melodies used that make them sound extra vibrant and colorful which are terms I used to describe psychedelic music.
> 
> You?


If you 're referring to psychedelic as colorful orchestration and chords, Bela Bartok had a way of combining the two with his X, Y, and Z cells, octatonic/pentatonic/whatever scales, and folk rhythms. The Miraculous Mandarin gets pretty freaky at the end. But then he can climb into your head, like with Duke Bluebeard's Castle.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

I don't know whether I'd label it psychedelic, as such, but many of Stockhausen's works are what one might call "trippy" - Hymnen, Gesang der Jünglinge, Aus der sieben Tagen, Cosmic Pulses and Stimmung spring to mind, as do many sections of the _Licht_ operas. The latter, when staged, are certainly surreal.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Grosse Fugue will do it.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Psychedelic classical is to me something like Gombert's highly dense, continuous polyphonic textures which one can swim in.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Scriabin was already psychedelic, with his synaesthesia.

I see an emergent conflict, though, because "psychedelic" music is often associated with drones and sitars. This works well with Terry Riley and Philip Glass, whose music seems pretty psychedelic, but problems arise with atonality and random-sounding music.

Perhaps this can be resolved if we see this kind of music as being produced or experienced during the 'heaviest' peak portion of the trip, where one's limbs have dissolved and one becomes incapable of understanding or producing speech. Pointillistic, random sounds will fit right in.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Anyone interested in psychedelic classical music needs this CD


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I find late Nono very trippy






and Jonathan Harvey's Bhakti


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I find late Nono very trippy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I enjoy this music, thanks for sharing!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Parts of Reinhold Glière's _Il'ya Muromets_ - especially the shimmering music which depicts the treasure scene.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> Parts of Reinhold Glière's _Il'ya Muromets_ - especially the shimmering music which depicts the treasure scene.


Is that the part when Ilya meets the Solovei's daughters? If so, yes! A luxuriously psychedelic scene, a guilty pleasure, really ravishing.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

To me, Ligeti, Lutoslawski and Schnittke represent a sort of psychedelic composers, quite enigmatic, often creating atmospheres from other dimensions. Norgard is akin to this description as well, especially because of his 3rd symphony, which is like a cosmic trip.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

MusicSybarite said:


> Is that the part when Ilya meets the Solovei's daughters? If so, yes! A luxuriously psychedelic scene, a guilty pleasure, really ravishing.


Affirmative. If memory serves, they entice unsuspecting passers-by with their heaps of gold, silver and pearls (or is it diamonds...).


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Martinů 6th symphony
Schittke 4th symphony
Penderecki 3rd symphony
Lutoslawski 3rd symphony
are all pretty trippy, as is a lot of Sibelius and Bruckner.
oh, and I forgot Dutilleux. Listen to his The Shadows of Time or Métaboles or piano sonata. Definitely some trippy harmonies


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

John Corigliano's "Three Hallucinations" suite from his score to "Altered States".


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
Tchaikovsky: Manfred Symphony & Mazeppa
Mussorgsky: Boris Godunov
Bernard Herrmann: that whistle (Georgie's) theme from the music for "Twisted Nerve"
Popov: Symphony no. VI
Rimsky-Korsakov: The Invisible City of Kitezh (Act IV, Scene I: where Grishka, in his delirious state, wildly he runs off screaming after singing a song about the devil and dancing)
Glazunov: Masquerade (where Arbenin is driven to madness as a result of killing his wife out of allegation that she cheated on him, which turns out to be false)
Richard Strauss: Don Quixote
Shostakovich: Lady Macbeth
Prokofiev: Ivan the Terrible
Enescu: Oedipe


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Jean Barraqué (1928-1973): His music exemplifies a "bad" acid trip. Fascinating, excruciating.


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## RogerExcellent (Jun 11, 2018)

Do mushrooms help when listening to this?


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## Jake1963 (Apr 24, 2018)

To Gallus: Concur. 
One instrument (multiplied, varied) can get you as far as 20 or 30 different ones. If "psychedelia" means creating a place that does not exist and then taking you there, masters of the original "wall of sound" could accomplish that at will. 
There is an emotionlessness to it, no? I mean, we can relate to emotion, and thus emotion is not psychedelic, unless the emotion is being in a state of wonder. 
I'd definitely go with Gombert, and my favorite of this type is Ockeghem's Missa Prolationem. Otherworldly!


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2018)

Perhaps some more electroacoustic recommendations:

Stockhausen: Oktophonie
Risset: Sud
Dhomont: Novars


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

Sadly the score video got pulled but the world of Spectralism, is Classical Music at it's most profound:






It evokes a certain otherness that resonates with experiences of psychedelic trips, for many people. If you could see the score, you'd notice how very complex but subtle the music is. I'm a huge fan


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I think use of dissonance/atonality lends itself to a psychedelic nature.


I'm glad (and very happy) that over time you are starting to realize that such dissonance is not meant to be unpleasant, that it's rather immersive, exotic and (to borrow a term) quite orgasmic, it reaches very powerfully and expressively into places that classical music in the past wasn't even able to grasp


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2018)

St Matthew said:


> Sadly the score video got pulled but the world of Spectralism, is Classical Music at it's most profound:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yea this is excellent. Once we delve into spectralism and non-spectral approaches to microtonal music (like maybe _Limited Approximations_ by Haas as another example) then there'd be a lot of good and fitting stuff to include in this thread.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2018)

shirime said:


> Oh yea this is excellent. Once we delve into spectralism and non-spectral approaches to microtonal music (like maybe _Limited Approximations_ by Haas as another example) then there'd be a lot of good and fitting stuff to include in this thread.


To a lay person (that's me) what is the distinction between spectralism and non-spectral approaches to microtones? (including, if possible, from the listener's POV.)

(I have the Haas piece)


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2018)

St Matthew said:


> Sadly the score video got pulled but the world of Spectralism, is Classical Music at it's most profound:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That work is one of my absolute favourites. Magnificent, otherwordly.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2018)

dogen said:


> To a lay person (that's me) what is the distinction between spectralism and non-spectral approaches to microtones? (including, if possible, from the listener's POV.)
> 
> (I have the Haas piece)


Spectralism is quite specific in how it goes about creating a pitch-based language from specific microtones taken from analyses of the spectra of different sounds. I don't think it's necessarily always audible, but sometimes there is a nice aesthetic that can be taken from the ringing overtones that define the overall sound of a composition. _Partiels_ by Grisey and _Mortuous Plango Vivos Voco_ have an 'exterior aesthetic' that is informed by the overtones of the source material, but other spectral pieces might not make the source material so obvious.

Any other approach to using microtones is, I guess, non-spectral. The Haas piece is concerned with different things that microtones can do, the 'out of tune' aesthetic of microtonally altered intervals is something I think Haas is quite fond of, as are the 'glissando' effects.


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## Mozart555 (Jun 17, 2018)

No classical music is psychedelic, that's not the point of it.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Montpellier Codex - Amor potest conqueri / Ad amorem


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

The way Leon Berben plays Bach here is so colourful and fast, maybe psychedelic is not a bad word for it.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Trance-inducing, droney stuff like Perotin and early minimalism are obvious and correct answers, but for me the most psychedelic moment in classical music is the transition from the third movement of Beethoven's Op. 132 to the fourth - the vision of heaven giving way in an instant to the mundane, nonetheless transformed by what came before.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> Trance-inducing, droney stuff like Perotin and early minimalism are obvious and correct answers, but for me the most psychedelic moment in classical music is the transition from the third movement of Beethoven's Op. 132 to the fourth - the vision of heaven giving way in an instant to the mundane, nonetheless transformed by what came before.


But there is no transition from the third to the fourth movements, the third finishes, the audience cough, the musicians tune up and the fourth begins, that's all.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> But there is no transition from the third to the fourth movements, the third finishes, the audience cough, the musicians tune up and the fourth begins, that's all.


That's what I meant - I shouldn't have used the word "transition" I guess.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Mozart555 said:


> No classical music is psychedelic, that's not the point of it.


do you seriously think that all composers have made a set of rules to decide what was the point of classical music?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

RogerExcellent said:


> Do mushrooms help when listening to this?


With Barraque? Yes, they could. When too many mushrooms are ingested, they become toxic. The nervous system begins to be affected, as well as the automatic breathing functions. One can feel as if one is "drowning" in recurring nervous waves of sensation, trouble breathing, panic, fear, and a most unpleasant feeling. This is perfect for Barraque.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> With Barraque? Yes, they could. When too many mushrooms are ingested, they become toxic. The nervous system begins to be affected, as well as the automatic breathing functions. One can feel as if one is "drowning" in recurring nervous waves of sensation, trouble breathing, panic, fear, and a most unpleasant feeling. This is perfect for Barraque.


I like your last sentence after writing all those horrible side effects! lol!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

shirime said:


> Oh yea this is excellent. Once we delve into spectralism and non-spectral approaches to microtonal music (like maybe _Limited Approximations_ by Haas as another example) then there'd be a lot of good and fitting stuff to include in this thread.


I love this! Thanks for sharing.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Mozart555 said:


> No classical music is psychedelic, that's not the point of it.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I've always felt that Holst's "The Planets" was psychedelic. 

Pondering the cosmos is, in itself, a rather psychedelic pursuit. For example, Pink Floyd's "Astronomy Domine" and "Set The Controls For The Center Of The Sun."


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> I've always felt that Holst's "The Planets" was psychedelic.


Well, the planets themselves are - ahem - 'far out'...


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

It's a bit of a stretch, but Beethoven's Pastoral 6th Symphony comes off as the serene portions of an acid trip.


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## Manos (Jun 21, 2018)

Hey Guys! I am listening a lot of music from Messiaen, Scriabin and Debussy lately and i am.trying to find some origins with psychedelia of the 60's but i am struggling between my perception and the intetion of the composer . Still i am.wondering , is it pointless to connect these composers with psychedelia? I mean, in the stricked musicological sense, we don't have clear proof of connections. As i noticed from the comments each of us concieves psychedelia from his own musical taste


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## Thomyum2 (Apr 18, 2018)

I agree with those who've mentioned Messaien and Ligeti - they are the first that come to mind for me as having a 'psychedelic' quality to their music. Another is Saariaho (whom I think of as a sort of successor to Messiaen) - I find her music to be absolutely other-worldly. And I'd also add Charles Ives to this list. 

Scriabin and Debussy I don't find so - perhaps being a pianist and having studied and played both of their works for so many years has something to do with that - their musical language sounds very familiar and even conventional to me at this point in my life. So I agree with Manos' post above - a lot of how we perceive music has to do with our own musical background that we bring to it. A psychedelic experience is almost by definition an experience of something strange and new and inexplicable, so it makes sense that one would be more likely to get this experience from unfamiliar music, and that could vary greatly between different listeners and different cultures.


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## Manos (Jun 21, 2018)

Thomyum2 said:


> I agree with those who've mentioned Messaien and Ligeti - they are the first that come to mind for me as having a 'psychedelic' quality to their music. Another is Saariaho (whom I think of as a sort of successor to Messiaen) - I find her music to be absolutely other-worldly.
> 
> Scriabin and Debussy I don't find so - perhaps being a pianist and having studied and played both of their works for so many years has something to do with that - their musical language sounds very familiar and even conventional to me at this point in my life. So I agree with Manos' post above - a lot of how we perceive music has to do with our own musical background that we bring to it. A psychedelic experience is almost by definition an experience of something strange and new and inexplicable, so it makes sense that one would be more likely to get this experience from unfamiliar music, and that could vary greatly between different listeners and different cultures.


Thomyum, thanks for the reply! I am a pianist too and i am trying to combine a programm ---that has psychedelic elements-between songs of psychedelic music of the 60's and pieces of contemporary music that has been an influence to psychedelia or was inspired by psychedelia. If you have anything particular in mind that would be very helpful. Certeanly, Debussy is more conventional (perhaps some preludes can be considered) but maybe there is an inner connection from Debussy,Satie, Messiean, Scriabin to psychedelia and other composers. The composers are just some that come in mind. Maybe also Rautavaraa , Stockhausen , John Adams ect.. The thing is that is there is no proof of this connection but only our perception and istinct.
Perhaps psychedelia has to do with something more kind of holistic in terms of programming.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Psychedelic to me is colorful, energetic, kaleidoscopic, otherworldly, alien etc. 
Sound, harmony, texture, atmosphere, such things are very important for psychedelic effect. Different music can be psychedelic to different people.

How about Roslavets?
This piece is like having a fever dream inside a glowworm cave.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Morton Feldman's music is very psychedelic. 

Long, unstructured, calmly dissonant, mysterious.

He is my favorite composer of all time.


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