# Looking for great conductors



## Haydnn

I'm trying to rebuild my music library. Often I am at a lost of which conductors are "safe". Berstein is real good with certain orchestras while when with others I find him a little "flat". Collin Davis has #3 and #5 Sibelius with Boston which I find real good. But with LSO in live mode I find it wanting. I used to have Eugen Jochum's Haydn. I wonder if it is as good as I think it was. There are so many new versions of everything. One can't sit back and think....I've got it all. Any "safe" conductors that I can start with?


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## Steatopygous

Probably not. But I would unhesitatingly recommend Georg Szell and Carlos Kleiber as almost always astoundingly good. They are the only two, off the top of my head, with almost no duds.


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## Mal

Ashkenazy's Sibelius 1,2, & 4 with the Philharmonia on Double Decca is a favourite of mine; it might fit in beside your Davis #3, #5. Another favourite of mine, if you want to try modern HIP Haydn, try Kuijken's Paris symphonies with the OAE.


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## superhorn

Gosh. There are so many superb recordings by so many different conductors in such a wide variety of repertoire this is an impossible question to answer . Not everybody agrees about which are superb , but 
all of these conductors, living and dead have made so many terrific recordings .
Here is a list of some eminent conductors in roughly alphabetical order and composers I and many others think they do particularly well . These are not the only ones they do well, of course.
Abbado : Mahler, Brahms, Tchaikovsky , Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Stravinsky .
Bernstein : Mahler, Copland, Gershwin , Beethoven, Sibelius, Schumann , Nielsen .
Boulez: Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Messiaen, Debussy, Ravel .
Barenboim : Bruckner. Beethoven. 
Beecham : Delius, Berlioz, Richard Strauss ,Haydn,Mozart.
Barbirolli : Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius,Mahler.
Sir Colin Davis: Berlioz, Sibelius, Tippett, Mozart .
Charles Dutoit : Debussy, Ravel, Saint-Saens, Stravinsky .
Antal Dorati : Haydn, Bartok, Kodaly , Tchaikovsky .
Wilhelm Furtwangler : Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert, Schumann, Wagner.
Carlo Maria Giulini : Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert.
Valery Gergiev : Prokofiev, Shostakovich , Tchaikovsky , Rimsky-Korsakov .
John Eliot Gardiner : Berlioz, Bach,Handel, Mozart .
Bernard Haitink : Bruckner, Mahler, Beethoven, Brahms .
Nikolaus Harnoncourt : Mozart,Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner, Schubert, Schumann .
Eugen Jochum : Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Orff , Haydn.
Neeme Jarvi : Sibelius, Nielsen , Prokofiev, Shostakovich .
Herbert von Karajan : Beethoven, Bruckner, Richard Strauss, Wagner .
Rafael Kubelik : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek , Schumann , Martinu .
Rudolf Kempe : Richard Strauss, Wagner, Brahms .
Yevgeny Mravinsky: Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich , Bruckner .
Sir Charles Mackerras : Mozart, Janacek, Dvorak, Handel .
Vaclav Neumann : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek, Martinu, Mahler .
Gennady Rozhedestvensky : Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky .
Sir Georg Solti : Bartok, Mahler, Liszt, Bruckner, Richard Strauss , Elgar .
Klaus Tennstedt : Bruckner, Mahler, Brahms .
Gunter Wand : Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven , Schubert .

This is only the tip of the iceberg !


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## Becca

Haydnn said:


> Any "safe" conductors that I can start with?


The problem with 'safe' conductors is that they tend to be bland and uninteresting. I would rather listen to a (personally) annoying performance by a conductor who has thought out opinions on a work than one by someone who does no more than play the notes. Sometimes the annoying conductor will convince me, it is rare that the safe conductor will manage that.


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## Becca

superhorn said:


> This is only the tip of the iceberg !


An interesting list, intriguing as much as for who is absent. Of these I would mark one as coming closest to safe AND interesting, and that is Carlo Maria Giulini because, particularly in the last couple of decades, his repertoire got quite narrow.


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## Steatopygous

Becca said:


> An interesting list, intriguing as much as for who is absent. Of these I would mark one as coming closest to safe AND interesting, and that is Carlo Maria Giulini because, particularly in the last couple of decades, his repertoire got quite narrow.


Indeed. I so nearly put him down as my third... Great minds, and all that...


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## Steatopygous

superhorn said:


> Gosh. There are so many superb recordings by so many different conductors in such a wide variety of repertoire this is an impossible question to answer . Not everybody agrees about which are superb , but
> all of these conductors, living and dead have made so many terrific recordings .
> Here is a list of some eminent conductors in roughly alphabetical order and composers I and many others think they do particularly well . These are not the only ones they do well, of course.
> Abbado : Mahler, Brahms, Tchaikovsky , Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Stravinsky .
> Bernstein : Mahler, Copland, Gershwin , Beethoven, Sibelius, Schumann , Nielsen .
> Boulez: Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Messiaen, Debussy, Ravel .
> Barenboim : Bruckner. Beethoven.
> Beecham : Delius, Berlioz, Richard Strauss ,Haydn,Mozart.
> Barbirolli : Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius,Mahler.
> Sir Colin Davis: Berlioz, Sibelius, Tippett, Mozart .
> Charles Dutoit : Debussy, Ravel, Saint-Saens, Stravinsky .
> Antal Dorati : Haydn, Bartok, Kodaly , Tchaikovsky .
> Wilhelm Furtwangler : Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert, Schumann, Wagner.
> Carlo Maria Giulini : Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert.
> Valery Gergiev : Prokofiev, Shostakovich , Tchaikovsky , Rimsky-Korsakov .
> John Eliot Gardiner : Berlioz, Bach,Handel, Mozart .
> Bernard Haitink : Bruckner, Mahler, Beethoven, Brahms .
> Nikolaus Harnoncourt : Mozart,Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner, Schubert, Schumann .
> Eugen Jochum : Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Orff , Haydn.
> Neeme Jarvi : Sibelius, Nielsen , Prokofiev, Shostakovich .
> Herbert von Karajan : Beethoven, Bruckner, Richard Strauss, Wagner .
> Rafael Kubelik : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek , Schumann , Martinu .
> Rudolf Kempe : Richard Strauss, Wagner, Brahms .
> Yevgeny Mravinsky: Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich , Bruckner .
> Sir Charles Mackerras : Mozart, Janacek, Dvorak, Handel .
> Vaclav Neumann : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek, Martinu, Mahler .
> Gennady Rozhedestvensky : Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky .
> Sir Georg Solti : Bartok, Mahler, Liszt, Bruckner, Richard Strauss , Elgar .
> Klaus Tennstedt : Bruckner, Mahler, Brahms .
> Gunter Wand : Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven , Schubert .
> 
> This is only the tip of the iceberg !


My goodness! I might take issue with a couple of the recommendations, but what a generous amount of effort you put into offering some guidance. TalkClassical at its best.


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## Haydn man

Steatopygous said:


> My goodness! I might take issue with a couple of the recommendations, but what a generous amount of effort you put into offering some guidance. TalkClassical at its best.


Well said, my thoughts entirely


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## Haydn man

Taking a different approach, I try to look for sites that give some overall reviews or recommendations for works, then hone it down from there.
A good site is http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk you can then look for your favourite conductors from amongst the options


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## jegreenwood

superhorn said:


> Gosh. There are so many superb recordings by so many different conductors in such a wide variety of repertoire this is an impossible question to answer . Not everybody agrees about which are superb , but
> all of these conductors, living and dead have made so many terrific recordings .
> Here is a list of some eminent conductors in roughly alphabetical order and composers I and many others think they do particularly well . These are not the only ones they do well, of course.
> Abbado : Mahler, Brahms, Tchaikovsky , Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Stravinsky .
> Bernstein : Mahler, Copland, Gershwin , Beethoven, Sibelius, Schumann , Nielsen .
> Boulez: Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Messiaen, Debussy, Ravel .
> Barenboim : Bruckner. Beethoven.
> Beecham : Delius, Berlioz, Richard Strauss ,Haydn,Mozart.
> Barbirolli : Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius,Mahler.
> Sir Colin Davis: Berlioz, Sibelius, Tippett, Mozart .
> Charles Dutoit : Debussy, Ravel, Saint-Saens, Stravinsky .
> Antal Dorati : Haydn, Bartok, Kodaly , Tchaikovsky .
> Wilhelm Furtwangler : Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert, Schumann, Wagner.
> Carlo Maria Giulini : Brahms, Bruckner , Schubert.
> Valery Gergiev : Prokofiev, Shostakovich , Tchaikovsky , Rimsky-Korsakov .
> John Eliot Gardiner : Berlioz, Bach,Handel, Mozart .
> Bernard Haitink : Bruckner, Mahler, Beethoven, Brahms .
> Nikolaus Harnoncourt : Mozart,Haydn, Beethoven, Bruckner, Schubert, Schumann .
> Eugen Jochum : Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Orff , Haydn.
> Neeme Jarvi : Sibelius, Nielsen , Prokofiev, Shostakovich .
> Herbert von Karajan : Beethoven, Bruckner, Richard Strauss, Wagner .
> Rafael Kubelik : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek , Schumann , Martinu .
> Rudolf Kempe : Richard Strauss, Wagner, Brahms .
> Yevgeny Mravinsky: Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich , Bruckner .
> Sir Charles Mackerras : Mozart, Janacek, Dvorak, Handel .
> Vaclav Neumann : Dvorak, Smetana, Janacek, Martinu, Mahler .
> Gennady Rozhedestvensky : Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky .
> Sir Georg Solti : Bartok, Mahler, Liszt, Bruckner, Richard Strauss , Elgar .
> Klaus Tennstedt : Bruckner, Mahler, Brahms .
> Gunter Wand : Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven , Schubert .
> 
> This is only the tip of the iceberg !


No list can be complete, but two names not mentioned, whom I like with the central German repertoire are Klemperer and Walter. Also, while the list focuses on conductors active since the LP era, if you have Furtwangler, you need Toscanini.


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## Mal

Steatopygous said:


> Probably not. But I would unhesitatingly recommend Georg Szell and Carlos Kleiber as almost always astoundingly good. They are the only two, off the top of my head, with almost no duds.


Is Szell safe? Third Ear guide on his Beethoven cycle: "... when gas is thrown onto a fire... [the fire] illuminates everything... or consumes everything in its path. Szell was both of these, so it's better to approach him symphony by symphony to avoid any emergency room visits."

Doesn't sound safe!


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## DavidA

Steatopygous said:


> Probably not. But I would unhesitatingly recommend Georg Szell and *Carlos Kleiber* as almost always astoundingly good. They are the only two, off the top of my head, with almost no duds.


The legend surrounding Kleiber is based on a few recordings. I have no doubt if he had made many more he would be thought upon with less reverence than he is. Of course, he was a great conductor. Anyone hearing his Beethoven 5th would agree. But others of his recordings do not hit the mark do well. For example, his recording of Carmen available on DVD. His Schubert 8th (and 3rd) is controversial. So I wouldn't actually call him 'safe'. Astounding sometimes - yes. But not always 'safe'.


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## Mal

DavidA said:


> The legend surrounding Kleiber is based on a few recordings. I have no doubt if he had made many more he would be thought upon with less reverence than he is. Of course, he was a great conductor. Anyone hearing his Beethoven 5th would agree.


I've just listened to the latest BBC Radio 3 Building a Library and Kleiber Beethoven 5 VPO won again, by a street. That's a safe, great choice.


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## Animal the Drummer

DavidA said:


> The legend surrounding Kleiber is based on a few recordings. I have no doubt if he had made many more he would be thought upon with less reverence than he is. Of course, he was a great conductor. Anyone hearing his Beethoven 5th would agree. But others of his recordings do not hit the mark do well. For example, his recording of Carmen available on DVD. His Schubert 8th (and 3rd) is controversial. So I wouldn't actually call him 'safe'. Astounding sometimes - yes. But not always 'safe'.


I don't share your assumption that making more recordings would have reduced Kleiber's reputation, for which I can't see enough evidence even in the examples you give - nobody else in my experience has called his "Unfinished" controversial before, and even his performance of Schubert's 3rd symph.is controversial only in his rather rapid reading of the 2nd movement.


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## Becca

While there are a group of conductors who predominate in my collection, I have never believed that any one of them is an automatic selection, they each have their strengths which I appreciate and weaknesses which I avoid. Often the collective wisdom about a conductor can be wrong in surprising places, both positively and negatively.


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## Triplets

I now use a streaming service to preview discs and buy the ones that impress. At $10 a month it allows me to sample many different recordings of a given work


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## Haydnn

Becca said:


> The problem with 'safe' conductors is that they tend to be bland and uninteresting. I would rather listen to a (personally) annoying performance by a conductor who has thought out opinions on a work than one by someone who does no more than play the notes. Sometimes the annoying conductor will convince me, it is rare that the safe conductor will manage that.


I often listen to works and follow with the score. You are right!!! The interesting things are with the brave.


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## Steatopygous

DavidA said:


> The legend surrounding Kleiber is based on a few recordings. I have no doubt if he had made many more he would be thought upon with less reverence than he is. Of course, he was a great conductor. Anyone hearing his Beethoven 5th would agree. But others of his recordings do not hit the mark do well. For example, his recording of Carmen available on DVD. His Schubert 8th (and 3rd) is controversial. So I wouldn't actually call him 'safe'. Astounding sometimes - yes. But not always 'safe'.


This reply goes for Mal as well. Perhaps we are at cross-purposes - in fact, obviously we are. By "safe", I mean you can safely buy a recording knowing that it will have something to offer, though this may be controversial. It's a safe buy for a good result, one worth listening to. I didn't mean that these conductors would always provide tediously orthodox middle of the road accounts of any work, as in a "safe" pair of hands. 
I can see that I should have been clearer.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

I like Claudio Abbado & Sir Charles Mackerras for Mozart (& Mendelssohn), Valery Gergiev for Russian romantics & Shostakovich/Prokofiev, also especially Sir Simon Rattle & Mariss Jansons


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## jflatter

DavidA said:


> The legend surrounding Kleiber is based on a few recordings. I have no doubt if he had made many more he would be thought upon with less reverence than he is. Of course, he was a great conductor. Anyone hearing his Beethoven 5th would agree. But others of his recordings do not hit the mark do well. For example, his recording of Carmen available on DVD. His Schubert 8th (and 3rd) is controversial. So I wouldn't actually call him 'safe'. Astounding sometimes - yes. But not always 'safe'.


Although you mention his Carmen, I think Kleiber on the whole preferred working in the opera house. He was possibly the greatest conductor of Der Rosenkavalier (alongside his father). His Elektra recording shows a lot more beauty in the score than what many conductors can manage. His Otello was pretty good as well.


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## Mal

Steatopygous said:


> By "safe", I mean you can safely buy a recording knowing that it will have something to offer, though this may be controversial. It's a safe buy for a good result, one worth listening to. I didn't mean that these conductors would always provide tediously orthodox middle of the road accounts of any work, as in a "safe" pair of hands.
> I can see that I should have been clearer.


All have something to offer, and many are controversial. On Beethoven's 5th I found Karajan '63 had the most to offer, so it's "safe" by your definition of "safe", but "most to offer" is a strange way of defining "safe". You seem to be asking for something that everyone agrees has the most to offer, *that* you will never find! All you can do is keep listening until you find the one that has the most to offer *to you* (on that day...)

I don't think anyone in this thread is taking "safe" to mean "tediously orthodox". By "safe" I think we all include "safe from being tediously orthodox". They might be "orthodox" without being "tedious". Karajan and Kleiber I would say are both orthodox (big band, non-HIP, ...), but far from tedious. Both would make great "safe" choices on which to base further exploration (into Szell land, HIP land, or many others...) Both are different in interesting ways, so get both (Karajan's '63 box set would be a safe investment, along with Kleiber's 5 & 7 disk.)


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## Gordontrek

To the OP- no one ever agrees on conductors around here, simply because there's so many different ones, and they all give so many different results, and everyone prefers something different than the next person. The best advice I can give you is to take a pea shoot. Just start listening, and forget who the conductor is. With all the conductors out there, you'll get a lot of different sounding recordings, but I guarantee you it'll be hard to find a BAD one. 
I started out with a lot of Karajan, simply due to the accessibility of his CDs, but later I branched out and found a lot of variety in Klemperer, Solti, Giulini and so on. (hint: the four conductors I've mentioned by name so far just happen to be my personal favorites. Don't rely on our advice, go find your own conductors to admire!)


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## hpowders

Haydnn said:


> I'm trying to rebuild my music library. Often I am at a lost of which conductors are "safe". Berstein is real good with certain orchestras while when with others I find him a little "flat". Collin Davis has #3 and #5 Sibelius with Boston which I find real good. But with LSO in live mode I find it wanting. I used to have Eugen Jochum's Haydn. I wonder if it is as good as I think it was. There are so many new versions of everything. One can't sit back and think....I've got it all. Any "safe" conductors that I can start with?


Try Sir Colin Davis/Concertgebouw in Haydn's London Symphonies and Leonard Bernstein/NY Philharmonic in the Haydn Paris Symphonies.


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## DavidA

Animal the Drummer said:


> I don't share your assumption that making more recordings would have reduced Kleiber's reputation, for which I can't see enough evidence even in the examples you give - nobody else in my experience has called his "Unfinished" controversial before, and even his performance of Schubert's 3rd symph.is controversial only in his rather rapid reading of the 2nd movement.


No question in my mind if (say) Karajan had just made a few recordings instead of the huge pile he made he would have been held in equal awe. If you look at the review of the Unfinished in the Penguin Guide you will see that it is not highly rated. I have it and think it is one valid way of doing it. But it's controversial. Interesting that hid Beethoven 7th only had tepid reviews when it came out.


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## dsphipps100

This is actually one of the most challenging aspects of classical music, finding performers whose style matches your preferences reasonably well. It takes a lot of guesswork and risk-taking (as in $$$$) to give previously unknown performers a chance to see if you like their approach or not. It's gets easier as you develop a list of performers that you find you can usually count on, but it's never 100%. Even your all-time ultimate favorite(s) will still have a bad day or a bad session here and there.


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## DavidA

I got this boxed set of symphonies of recordings made by Karajan in the 1970s. It's pretty cheap and there are an awful lot of good performances. Not saying that all of them are the best but the Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Bruckner and Tchaikovsky sets stand up with the best. The Mozart and Haydn are 'big band' but still we'll worth a listen.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Give the "new guys" a chance. Some new guys are Vasily Petrenko, Yannick Nézet-Séguin, Christian Thielemann, Riccardo Chailly, Antonio Pappano, Paavo Järvi, Sakari Oramo. Some of them are almost 50, so veterans of music.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Not as easy as it might sound. Everyone has their favorites, and in all the years I've listened, I have never come across a conductor whom I would rate as number one in every piece he or she has ever recorded, and I imagine no one else has either. In fact, all of my favorites, in various instances, have produced interpretations I've simply not cared for. Notwithstanding, here are my prime recommendations, in no necessary order of preference: Bruno Walter, Otto Klemperer, Istvan Kertesz, Eugen Jochum, George Szell, Fritz Reiner, Leonard Bernstein, Felix Weingartner (He recorded prior to the stereo era.), Eduard Van Beinum, Charles Munch.


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## Rach Man

I'm not sure what you are actually looking for. But if you would like to listen to someone new. Manfred Honeck too over as music director of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra in 2008. Since then, they have recorded at least 10 CDs under his direction. I have several and really like his conducting. Plus, all of the CDs are actually SACD-hybrids, which play in stereo or also 5.1. The sound, along with the music, is spectacular. If you would like to try some of these, check out their CDs on Amazon.


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## Pugg

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Give the "new guys" a chance. Some new guys are Vasily Petrenko, Yannick Nézet-Séguin, Christian Thielemann, Riccardo Chailly, Antonio Pappano, Paavo Järvi, Sakari Oramo. Some of them are almost 50, so veterans of music.


So far the seems to do really very well.


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## JAS

I am watching an old VHS tape (redundant?) of "The Art of the Conductor." I am amazed to see much of the footage of older great conductors (primarily meaning of long ago and not necessary their chronological age) shows many of them as conducting with so little motion or passion that they seem almost comatose (and yet apparently in complete command of everything going on). Perhaps some of this is a discomfort with being filmed, and they appeared different in a live performance. But I wonder how much the whole idea of television may have influenced the subsequent generations of conductors, who all seem now to make some effort to make a much greater splash visually. (Bernstein and Karajan always seemed to make a point of showing a kind of inner smouldering of passion with occasional external bursts of energy. And watching Solti on "The Golden Ring" documentary shows that he appears to have been a very animated conductor, at least in rehearsal.)


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## Becca

That is the way that Solti was in concert!

As an aside to that, you might be interested in this video clip about Sir Adrian Boult, about as outwardly unemotional as they come...


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## JAS

Becca said:


> As an aside to that, you might be interested in this video clip about Sir Adrian Boult, about as outwardly unemotional as they come...


Yes, that is interesting. They have the same clip of Arthur Nikisch in the "Art of Conducting" documentary, but note that it is silent. (And it if had not been silent, the sound would not be nearly as nice as it is here.) Boult says that you can know what Nikisch is conducting just by watching, so I wonder if they guessed (and who could prove them wrong)? I note that Boult seems to be using a fairly long baton with a pear shaped handle. That would seem to give him a lot of movement in the baton just by rolling it a bit in his fingers.


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## Becca

You should get the DVD version of Art of Conducting as it has some bits that the VHS tape did not, including various interviews at the end, some of which are especially enlightening.


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## Heck148

Reiner and Monteux were noted for very reserved podium gestures..Reiner specialized in it, so did Richard Strauss, and by some reports, Mahler. 
some quotes:
*Reiner, on counducting*:The best conducting technique is that which achieves the maximum musical result with the minimum effort. The only general rule is to infuse all gestures with precision, clarity, and vitality. - Fritz Reiner
*Reiner on Leonard Bernstein, 1944:* "Wait until you see that kid conduct tonight. Mit einem Schmiss [with fiery verve]! Watch out for him. He's going to make a real career."
*Leonard Bernstein on Reiner,* 1989: "He was a genius, apart from all other conductors I've ever known. He was tyrannical, he was cruel, he was bitter, he was ruthless in his treatment of us if we didn't know what was happening. His standards were incredibly high, and I bless him for it."

Richard Strauss:
-Conducting is, after all, a difficult business - one has to be seventy years of age to realise this fully!
-The left hand has nothing to do with conducting. Its proper place is the waistcoat pocket from which it should only emerge to restrain or make some minor gesture for which in any case a scarcely perceptible glance should suffice.
-It is better to conduct with the ear instead of with the arm: the rest follows automatically.

*Ten Golden Rules (for the album of a young conductor)
*1. Remember you are making music not to amuse yourself but to delight the audience.
2. You should not perspire when conducting: only the audience should get warm.
3. Conduct 'Salome' and 'Elektra' as if they were by Mendelssohn: fairy music.
4. Never look encouragingly at the brass, except with a short glance to give an important cue.
5. But never let the horns and woodwind out of your sight: if you can hear them at all they are still too strong.
6. If you think that the brass is not blowing hard enough, tone it down another shade or two.
7. It is not enough that you yourself can hear every word the soloist sings - you know it off by heart anyway: the audience must be able to follow without effort. If they do not understand the words they will go to sleep.
8. Always accompany a singer in such a way that he can sing without effort.
9. When you think you have reached the limits of prestissimo, go twice as fast. (1948 Today, I should like to ammend this as follows: Go twice as slowly - addressed to conductors of Mozart).
10. If you follow these rules carefully you will, with your fine gifts and great accomplishments, always be the darling of your listeners.
page38. Originally published 1922.
Rule 4 is often misquoted as: Never look at the Trombones, you'll only encourage them.>>

comment - You have to take Strauss' comments with at least a grain of salt...he often contradicted these statements either tru word or deed - esp #s3-8


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## JAS

> Richard Strauss: . . .
> 
> -The left hand has nothing to do with conducting. Its proper place is the waistcoat pocket from which it should only emerge to restrain or make some minor gesture for which in any case a scarcely perceptible glance should suffice.


In the clip of Toscanini conducting, he is literally holding the lapel of his coat with his left hand for most of the time.


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## JAS

Becca said:


> You should get the DVD version of Art of Conducting as it has some bits that the VHS tape did not, including various interviews at the end, some of which are especially enlightening.


I had already ordered a copy, but it is surprisingly difficult to find.


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## Becca

Regarding the 'Golden Rules', Don't forget the Zeroth Rule as told to a young conductor before a concert...

_Go out there and don't disturb the orchestra._


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## Merl

I listen to a large range of conductors. Some, I like in one composer's works but not in another. For example, I love Mackerras' (2nd) Beethoven cycle and late Mozart but don't rate his Brahms cycle. I find Asahina too slow in Beethoven but love his Bruckner and Walter average in his Beethoven cycle but rate his Mahler. There really is no 'safe bet but I have a soft spot for Szell in most repertoire as well as Kubelik. Every conductor usually has at least one cracker in their locker. Absolutely loving the majorit of Honeck's Pittsburgh recordings tho. His Dvorak, Mahler and Beethoven are something special. I'd also single out many of Ivan Fischer's newer recordings for particular praise. His Dvorak symphonies sound great to my ears.


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## JAS

Wagner's baton: https://www.opera-online.com/en/articles/lohengrin-wagners-baton

It basically looks like a drummers stick with the end trimmed down. Perhaps it is lighter than it looks, but I suppose it was good for beating players into submission.


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## yetti66

I've been collecting for about 20 years and there are many conductors that excel in particular repertoire but I think that Rafael Kubelik is excellent across a very broad german/ slavic repertoire of 19th and 20th century.


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## Mahlerbone

I discovered Claudio Abbado through his Mahler cycle, which is mostly fantastic. I'm finding that he is equally impressive in everything I'm listening to by him. He does a fantastic Stravinsky Rite of Spring, Schubert "great" C major symphony, and I just started listening to his Brahms symphony cycle. I'm looking forward to checking out his Beethoven and Tchaikovsky symphony cycles next.


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## JAS

Becca said:


> You should get the DVD version of Art of Conducting as it has some bits that the VHS tape did not, including various interviews at the end, some of which are especially enlightening.


The DVD arrived, and the extra interviews are interesting. I haven't checked in detail, but it seemed as if the documentary itself also let some sections play out a bit more than on the VHS.

Now, the real question is, will anyone else, who is not actually a conductor, admit to a little "air" conducting to a favorite recording? (I am presuming that this is essentially the classical version of "air guitar" and probably quite common.) Of course, it is somewhat backwards, since the would-be conductor is probably responding to the music (and is, therefore, essentially being played by the orchestra rather than the other way around), but if you really get familiar with a particular recording, you can "anticipate" the orchestra and more or less pretend that they are responding to you.


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## Becca

JAS said:


> The DVD arrived, and the extra interviews are interesting. I haven't checked in detail, but it seemed as if the documentary itself also let some sections play out a bit more than on the VHS.


You are correct. The one that I immediately noticed is where Barbirolli is rehearsing Bruckner.


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## DavidA

Becca said:


> That is the way that Solti was in concert!
> 
> As an aside to that, you might be interested in this video clip about Sir Adrian Boult, about as outwardly unemotional as they come...


Interesting with Boult. I saw him conduct as a lad when he was an elderly man. It was uncanny just how much he got out of an orchestra with so little. He unfortunately got the image of being rather dull perhaps due to his English gentleman appearance. However there was nothing don't about his conducting.


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