# The "what would X think of Y" thread



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

This is the thread for discussing what composer X would think of composer/piece Y. 

For example, I have always wondered what Haydn would think of Prokofiev's "Classical" symphony, since Prokofiev himself said that's whos symphonies he modeled the piece after. Would Haydn be able to appreciate this piece? or do you think it would be too modern for him to enjoy?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Haydn is a nice guy so he would most likely give praise to Prokofiev's symphony. I reckon he might find the piece a bit strange and harmonically adventurous though.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Similar with things like Stravinsky - his Dumbarton Oaks concerto being inspired a good deal by Bach's Brandenburgs. Or his Symphony in C looking back to Beethoven's symphonies.

But I think that Prokofiev's Classical Symphony would definitely be beyond the pale for Haydn. The contemporary accounts are that Haydn was not a fan of Beethoven's first two symphonies. I think Haydn heard them, he was present at their premieres. Or at least at one of their premieres. From anecdotal information, Haydn thought that these works were not his cup of tea.

So shudder to think what old papa would think of c20th neo-classicism. Maybe even late c19th neo-classicism like Bizet's Symphony in C would not impress him either.

BTW, Haydn was a gentleman and did not rubbish Beethoven or his work. He said Beethoven was his best student. I think Haydn must have gently said he didn't like his student's first two symphonies. & no wonder, as they are quite different than Haydn's or Mozart's, I found out after reading basic analysis of them in an ancient book I have. In his first symphony, Beethoven invented the scherzo, but he still labelled that movement minuet. It was a new thing, he didn't know what to call it, yet...


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

What would Prokofiev think of Lady Gaga? Do Enfantes Terribles think alike?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> What would Prokofiev think of Lady Gaga? Do Enfantes Terribles think alike?


Is Lady Gaga considered an Enfantes Terrible now?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Prokofiev didn't like rehash. Maybe he'd think Lady GaGa was Madonna rehash. I don't think that, but maybe Sergei would? :lol: ...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

OK, I'm taking the liberty of broadening Violadude's X on Y concept for this scenario. How about Hadyn, Beethoven, Chopin, and Tchaikovsky in the audience during a performance of Schnittke's 1st symphony?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starthrower said:


> OK, I'm taking the liberty of broadening Violadude's X on Y concept for this scenario. How about Hadyn, Beethoven, Chopin, and Tchaikovsky in the audience during a performance of Schnittke's 1st symphony?


 I don't think any of those composers would have the ear for that piece.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Just this afternoon, while listening to Bruckner's 9th, I was having a little reverie about Mozart sitting in the audience taking it all in, and I pictured him dying from a shock and ecstasy induced heart attack.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

violadude said:


> I don't think any of those composers would have the ear for that piece.


Well at least they would know whose music was being quoted!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Well at least they would know whose music was being quoted!


True true, or they would be so agitated by the music that they wouldn't even notice the quotes.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

lol that brings up another alternative! What would Prokofiev think of the song Russians by Sting?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

well, the good thing is that Ravel will never hear how I steal his cherished harmonies :devil:. The bad thing is that, unlike Gershwin, I'm not a "first class" aleazk in the first place :lol:, so the only possibility for me is to be a second hand Ravel :tiphat:


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Here's one I've wondered from time to time. If Beethoven had lived just a little longer, and wasn't deaf, and got to hear Symphonie Fantastique, what would he think of that?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Just this afternoon, while listening to Bruckner's 9th, I was having a little reverie about Mozart sitting in the audience taking it all in, and I pictured him dying from a shock and ecstasy induced heart attack.


The Scherzo of that piece would definitely be just about the most horrifying thing he had ever heard.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

violadude said:


> Here's one I've wondered from time to time. If Beethoven had lived just a little longer, and wasn't deaf, and got to hear Symphonie Fantastique, what would he think of that?


I think he would have liked it more than Mendelssohn :tiphat: The chromaticism may have been his only problem with it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I think he would have liked it more than Mendelssohn :tiphat: The chromaticism may have been his only problem with it.


That would be my first reaction, but then again, I don't think he would have ever heard anything as grotesque as the last movement, I wonder if he would have a problem with that?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

WAT WUD WANGER TINK OF MESSY ANNE

But seriously, what _would_ Wagner think of Messiaen? Or any composer for that matter?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> WAT WUD WANGER TINK OF MESSY ANNE
> 
> But seriously, what _would_ Wagner think of Messiaen? Or any composer for that matter?


I think Wagner would have a bit of trouble having an opinion on Messiaen to be honest. Their sound worlds are so completely different. He might even think he was listening to alien music! Especially since he would have never heard an Ondes Martenot before.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I suppose that's worth considering, although there is plenty of Messiaen without the Ondes. I'd especially be fascinated to hear Wagner's take on St. François, being a lengthy music drama thingy and all, although we might be back to "alien music" due to its use of multiple Ondes-Martenot.

Perhaps even more interesting would be Mozart's opinion, if only because he was Messiaen's musical hero or something.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> I suppose that's worth considering, although there is plenty of Messiaen without the Ondes. I'd especially be fascinated to hear Wagner's take on St. François, being a lengthy music drama thingy and all, although we might be back to "alien music" due to its use of multiple Ondes-Martenot.
> 
> Perhaps even more interesting would be Mozart's opinion, if only because he was Messiaen's musical hero or something.


Many many composers cite Mozart as one of their inspirations and I think at least half of them would scare Mozart to death.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah but it's Messiaen, so of course I have to push for it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Yeah but it's Messiaen, so of course I have to push for it.


Understood. 

I think it would be interesting to get Wagner's reaction to Salome and Elektra.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Good idea!

I also wonder if he would've been won over by Mahler in spite of the "Jewishness" thing?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Good idea!
> 
> I also wonder if he would've been won over by Mahler in spite of the "Jewishness" thing?


Well ya know, even though there is an obvious musical influence of Wagner on Strauss and Mahler, their music belongs to two very different times and have different "spirits" so to speak. Wagner's (along with Bruckner's) is a very heavy,epic, German nationalist style. Much of Strauss' and Mahler's music belongs to the next generation, very expressionist, imbued with the feeling of the darker side of Freudian Psychology. So with this in mind, I think Wagner would actually find much of Mahler and Strauss quite strange.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Very well said, I think that's about as close as we'll get to an answer.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

I'm thinking about this..

*What would Mozart and Beethoven would think about Schubert?*

Imagine these three composers conversing about their own works, and Schubert being the youngest (and shy) would melt on front of these two. It's a known fact that Beethoven acknowledged Schubert's genius somehow and Schubert is in awe with him. I imagine Mozart and Schubert being best buddies, being both Austrian..

Mozart would teach Beethoven and Schubert how to write a proper opera.. Schubert would teach both of them how to compose excellent Lieder.. Beethoven would advise Schubert how to finish a symphony.. 

What do you think?


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Beethoven on Mahler's symphonies.

Brahms on Stravinsky's neo-Classicism.

Beethoven on Brahms, Liszt and Wagner.

Bach on Mozart.

Berlioz on Bruckner/Mahler, Debussy, Schoenberg, Scriabin, Bartok.

uh, Busoni on Stockhausen?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Here are some ones from contemporaries -

Hindemith admired very much Walton's_ Variations on a theme of Hindemith_.

I'm not sure what Frank Bridge thought of his student Benjamin Britten's _Variations on a theme of Frank Bridge_, but wikipedia says Bridge did attend rehearsals of the work.

& now I think of it, what would Thomas Tallis have thought of Vaughan Williams' _FAntasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis_? Or what would Corelli have thought of Tippett's _Fantasia Concertante on a theme by Corelli_?...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

jalex said:


> uh, Busoni on Stockhausen?


I reckon _Monteverdi_ on Stockhausen. See how surprised ol' Claudio will be there!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> WAT WUD WANGER TINK OF MESSY ANNE
> 
> But seriously, what _would_ Wagner think of Messiaen? Or any composer for that matter?


i'd like to know what would Wagner think of Debussy. And Debussy of Scriabin.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

What would Purcell think of Michael Nyman's film score for Peter Greenaway's film "The Draughtsman's Contract?" Or Mozart on Nyman's score to "Drowning By Numbers" or his two and a half minute piece "In Re Don Giovanni?"


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

and what would Albinoni think of his own adagio?


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