# Quadraphonic/4-Channel Classical Recordings



## DaveM

The Bach Symphonic Transcriptions thread reminded me of the quadraphonic era of the 1970s-early 1980s of which I was heavily into. A fair number of classical recordings were recorded with 4-channel sound. The 1974 Stokowski RCA recording with the London Symphony of his Bach Transcriptions including the great Chaconne was produced as a Quadradisc/CD-4 recording (I mistakenly said it was an SQ recording in the above-mentioned thread.)

There were 3 main 4-channel formats used with vinyl records:

SQ
Pioneered by Columbia. It was an encoded matrix format which required an SQ decoder. This was not truly discrete 4-channel sound such as what a 4-channel open-reel tape recorder could produce (such as the Akai unit I owned).

QS
Introduced by Sansui. It was also an encoded pseudo-4 channel format and it never was as popular as SQ when it came to released vinyl productions. But what it did better than any other format was to give you a 4-channel experience out of regular stereo records (using the decoder). The way it did this was simply ingenious:

Envision the sound of an orchestra as coming from a straight line going from the left (say 1st violins) to the right (say the cellos). Now, pull each end of that straight line down into the form of a horseshoe so the 1st violins are now along your left to the left-front and the cellos are from the right-front to your right. That's what the Sansui QS decoder did when fed the sound from a plain stereo record. The sound was quite dramatic with a piano concerto where the piano was right up front and the orchestra was surrounding you! (Worked great with pop music also.)

Dolby bought the QS patent from Sansui to incorporate it into what is now Dolby Surround Sound.

CD-4/Quadradisc
Used by RCA. This was full discrete 4-channel with the 4 channels actually embedded in the grooves of the vinyl record. It certainly gave you a true 4-channel effect, but the vinyl of RCA records was so poor that you had to put up with a lot of ticks & pops. RCA tried to promote these records as working just as well as a stereo record without a decoder, but that was bull; played as stereo records only, quadradiscs produced thin, shallow sound. 

(RCA was always an enigma to me: the music was usually beautifully produced and on remastered CDs the classical music sound is/was great, but their vinyl records were almost always utter crap because the vinyl was down-right cheap quality. It must have been hard for the RCA audio engineers to hear the sound they created coming from the vinyl.)

BTW: You can create a poor-man's 4-channel, by hooking up 2 rear speakers: connect the + terminal of the left front speaker to the + terminal of the left-rear speaker and the + terminal of the right front speaker to the + terminal of the right-rear speaker. Now connect the - terminals of the rear speakers together. You get ambient sound out of the rear speakers.

So, did any other listeners here get into 4-channel classical records?


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## geralmar

Until I acquired a wife I was content with BTW. (Now I listen to two speakers in the basement.) My most eerie experience was listening to Barbirolli conducting Mahler's sixth on two Angel/EMI LPs late one night. I kept hearing intermittent strange sounds directly behind me. I concentrated a moment then suddenly realized that the two rear channels had isolated the labored breathing and moans of a dead man.


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## MarkW

I never had the patience to be able to sit for any length of time in exactly one place to enjoy the effect, so stereo was fine with me. (Also in the late 1960s, early '70s, RCA pressings got thinner and thinner, so warping was also a factor.)


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## brotagonist

I never had a decoder, but I used to own a handful of quadrophonic LPs (most or all were Columbia).

While I do enjoy dedicated listening and make a point of doing it whenever I can (not always as often as I would like), like MarkW, much of my listening is while on the move around my place or while sitting off-centre, so even stereo listening is typically more like mono :lol:


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## Biwa

I am a huge fan of Quad recordings. These days I mostly listen to them on SA-CD (super audio CD), DVD-A (DVD Audio), and BD-A (Bluray Audio). All of these formats are able to play 4-channel or the newer 5.1 surround recordings. Downloads are also available.

The "Shadydogs" of the classic RCA Living Stereo recordings from the 1950s & 60s have been released in their original 3-channel mix along with the 2-channel stereo on SA-CD...

http://www.audaud.com/2004/10/hi-res-reviews-part-2-of-3-classical-i/

http://livingstereo.alongthehall.com/index.html

PentaTone has been doing an excellent job remastering vintage 70s DGG & Phillips Quad recordings on their:

RQR series... http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/3

Remastered Classics series... http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/4

Hopefully, PentaTone will get access to the treasures slumbering away in the EMI vault and start remastering those glories of the Quad era for a whole new generation of listeners.

PentaTone, Channel Classics, BIS, and many other labels have also been actively recording & releasing new performances in 5.1 or 5.0 surround sound. They sound AMAZING!!!

And... Yesterday I watched the 2016 Neujahrskonzert LIVE broadcast with the Wiener Philharmoniker in glorious 5.1 surround sound.

Over the past 15 years, there have also been lots of fantastic Quad recordings (old and new) of Progressive Rock, Country, Soul... being remastered and released on SA-CDs, DVD-As, and BD-A. Pink Floyd, YES, Steely Dan, and others have long used Quad/surround sound in their music.

Last year David Gilmour just released his new album Rattle That Lock in 5.1 surround on Bluray Audio. Roger Waters remixed and released his album "Amused to Death" in surround on SA-CD and Bluray Audio. Steven Wilson remixed YES - Fragile in surround on Bluray Audio.

Audio Fidelity is another label that's been doing a spectacular job reissuing classic Quad recordings on SA-CD... https://audiofidelity.net/category/multichannel

Here's a list of various rock, pop, and other music from the surround poll on the website QuadraphonicQuad... http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/TabbedPollChart.htm


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## Triplets

As the last post indicated, many of the Quad recordings have been reissued in multichannel SACD, many by the Pentatone label.
I worked in a record store in the 70s and we were trying to sell quad records. We had installed 4 speakers around the store. It was constantly malfunctioning and when you moved out of the sweet spot sounded quite bad. We probably discouraged as many prosective purchasers as we encouraged.
Btw, there is a multichannel audio thread in the Hi Fi folder of TC


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## DaveM

Biwa, thanks for all that interesting quad info.


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## Biwa

Fortunately, the technological limitations of the early Quad era in the 1970s have been overcome. Now, the most contentious topic of discussion in the Quad world is how aggressive should the surround channels be used. Most diehard Quad fans want the rear channels to be active with discrete musical parts. They should play an equal (or nearly equal) part in the overall soundstage. Quad (or 4.0) is more or less 2 speakers in front and 2 speakers in back. So, it's easy to see why some would favor an "equal balance" approach. 

Things changed a little when 5.1 became the standard in the late 1990s. With a front center speaker thrown into the equation, the ratio changed to 3:2. And 5.1 recordings became more front soundstage oriented with the rear speakers being ambient...not discrete. Of course some Quad recordings had ambient rear speakers, too. But, this became more & more the norm for 5.1. 

For example, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon has 2 different surround mixes...both an old 4.0 mix by Alan Parsons and a new 5.1 mix by James Guthrie. The 4.0 mix spreads the individual voices and instruments around the room. The newer 5.1 mix, while still a surround mix, moved quite a bit of the music to the front speakers. Needless to say, many Quad purists hate the newer 5.1 mix.

However; a front soundstage approach has its champions...especially with classical music lovers. Many people want the natural ambiance or resonance of the concert hall, cathedral, or other venue to be naturally captured by a surround recording. The results for orchestral and chamber music are beautiful, and heavenly for Renaissance choral polyphony and Baroque pipe organ music. Most new 5.1 recordings of classical music use this approach. 

Interestingly, a front soundstage with 3 channels is what early recording engineers had in mind for what "stereo" should be. Hence, RCA Living Stereo recordings were 3.0. The center channel opens up the front soundstage, which provides better focus and more detail, especially with large symphonic, operatic, or choral works. 

New surround recordings of more avant-garde music often take a more aggressive approach and use the surround channels actively. So now, the possibilities for surround sound truly are 'wide' open. For those interested, the true benefits of surround sound are best heard and felt in one's own room. 
Hope I didn't ramble on too much. :tiphat:


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## Luukas

Hi, everybody! 
I am an excited fan of quadraphonic sound. I have collected nearly every single album of Pentatone’s REMASTERED CLASSICS series. In the last year we had a great chance to order 20 remastered quadraphonic albums on SACD discs. And their revelatory series will be expanded this year with 10 more albums from the catalogue of Philips Classics.
It is strange that PENTATONE decided to turn back to Philips. I thought that the all 4-channel recordings were already released in the RQR Series. But I was wrong. How many quad albums Philips still have? It would be simply great to have, for example, the rest of Sir Colin Davis's Sibelius cycle with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. The producer was experienced Vittorio Negri. The whole cycle was originally recorded with the quadraphonic tapes. We have already Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 and the symphonic poem "En Saga" on SACD. We just have to hope that PENTATONE will release the other symphonies in the future. 
The future of REMASTERED CLASSICS is a little wonder for me. In 2015 the successful series was almost over. I got email at PENTATONE: "As already told before, not all the tapes were preserved well enough to be used for remastering. This also was a disappointment for us because we were planning to release more items. Second reason is that we can’t decide on our own which recordings will be remastered. We only received permission and tapes from Deutsche Grammophon for several recordings, not the full repertoire. So unfortunately there is nothing more we can release". 
I answered quickly and after that I received another email: "I went to my Managing Director again to discuss the DG releases for you. The latest news is a little bit better: we requested the licence for appr 15 new items at Deutsche Grammophon. The bad news is that we still have no idea when and if we will get these licences. We are totally depending on their approval and can’t make any predictions about the outcome". But, as we know, the new albums were from the catalogue of Philips Classics instead of Deutsche Grammophon. Why? I know the both companies have still many previously unreleased quad albums. Thomas Mowrey produced his all 1970s recordings for Deutsche Grammophon with quadraphonic tapes. Seiji Ozawa and his Boston Symphony Orchestra worked with Mr. Mowrey and their first efforts together are already available. And I'm not sure but I think that Claudio Abbado's analogue recording of Mahler's Fifth Symphony (1980) was recorded in quad as well. I really hope that PENTATONE will continue this important series in 2017. The previous RQR series took over 10 years. 
Do you have any comments? I will appreciate your feedback!


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Hi, everybody!
> I am an excited fan of quadraphonic sound. I have collected nearly every single album of Pentatone's REMASTERED CLASSICS series. In the last year we had a great chance to order 20 remastered quadraphonic albums on SACD discs. And their revelatory series will be expanded this year with 10 more albums from the catalogue of Philips Classics.
> It is strange that PENTATONE decided to turn back to Philips. I thought that the all 4-channel recordings were already released in the RQR Series. But I was wrong. How many quad albums Philips still have? It would be simply great to have, for example, the rest of Sir Colin Davis's Sibelius cycle with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. The producer was experienced Vittorio Negri. The whole cycle was originally recorded with the quadraphonic tapes. We have already Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 and the symphonic poem "En Saga" on SACD. We just have to hope that PENTATONE will release the other symphonies in the future.
> The future of REMASTERED CLASSICS is a little wonder for me. In 2015 the successful series was almost over. I got email at PENTATONE: "As already told before, not all the tapes were preserved well enough to be used for remastering. This also was a disappointment for us because we were planning to release more items. Second reason is that we can't decide on our own which recordings will be remastered. We only received permission and tapes from Deutsche Grammophon for several recordings, not the full repertoire. So unfortunately there is nothing more we can release".
> I answered quickly and after that I received another email: "I went to my Managing Director again to discuss the DG releases for you. The latest news is a little bit better: we requested the licence for appr 15 new items at Deutsche Grammophon. The bad news is that we still have no idea when and if we will get these licences. We are totally depending on their approval and can't make any predictions about the outcome". But, as we know, the new albums were from the catalogue of Philips Classics instead of Deutsche Grammophon. Why? I know the both companies have still many previously unreleased quad albums. Thomas Mowrey produced his all 1970s recordings for Deutsche Grammophon with quadraphonic tapes. Seiji Ozawa and his Boston Symphony Orchestra worked with Mr. Mowrey and their first efforts together are already available. And I'm not sure but I think that Claudio Abbado's analogue recording of Mahler's Fifth Symphony (1980) was recorded in quad as well. I really hope that PENTATONE will continue this important series in 2017. The previous RQR series took over 10 years.
> Do you have any comments? I will appreciate your feedback!


I wish Pentatone would take a stab at some other labels that issued some Quad, such as Columbia.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Hi, everybody!
> I am an excited fan of quadraphonic sound. I have collected nearly every single album of Pentatone's REMASTERED CLASSICS series. In the last year we had a great chance to order 20 remastered quadraphonic albums on SACD discs. And their revelatory series will be expanded this year with 10 more albums from the catalogue of Philips Classics.
> It is strange that PENTATONE decided to turn back to Philips. I thought that the all 4-channel recordings were already released in the RQR Series. But I was wrong. How many quad albums Philips still have? It would be simply great to have, for example, the rest of Sir Colin Davis's Sibelius cycle with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. The producer was experienced Vittorio Negri. The whole cycle was originally recorded with the quadraphonic tapes. We have already Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 and the symphonic poem "En Saga" on SACD. We just have to hope that PENTATONE will release the other symphonies in the future.
> The future of REMASTERED CLASSICS is a little wonder for me. In 2015 the successful series was almost over. I got email at PENTATONE: "As already told before, not all the tapes were preserved well enough to be used for remastering. This also was a disappointment for us because we were planning to release more items. Second reason is that we can't decide on our own which recordings will be remastered. We only received permission and tapes from Deutsche Grammophon for several recordings, not the full repertoire. So unfortunately there is nothing more we can release".
> I answered quickly and after that I received another email: "I went to my Managing Director again to discuss the DG releases for you. The latest news is a little bit better: we requested the licence for appr 15 new items at Deutsche Grammophon. The bad news is that we still have no idea when and if we will get these licences. We are totally depending on their approval and can't make any predictions about the outcome". But, as we know, the new albums were from the catalogue of Philips Classics instead of Deutsche Grammophon. Why? I know the both companies have still many previously unreleased quad albums. Thomas Mowrey produced his all 1970s recordings for Deutsche Grammophon with quadraphonic tapes. Seiji Ozawa and his Boston Symphony Orchestra worked with Mr. Mowrey and their first efforts together are already available. And I'm not sure but I think that Claudio Abbado's analogue recording of Mahler's Fifth Symphony (1980) was recorded in quad as well. I really hope that PENTATONE will continue this important series in 2017. The previous RQR series took over 10 years.
> Do you have any comments? I will appreciate your feedback!


Keep the information coming :tiphat:


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## Luukas

I don't have yet any new information about the Remastered Classics. But I want to share my worries about the unreleased quadraphonic recordings of Emi Classics.
As we clearly know Emi Classics was very excited about the opportunities of the new 4-channel sound. The company made over 100 quadraphonic recordings in 1970s. The Sibelius and Shostakovich recordings of Paavo Berglund and Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra were originally recorded with this revelatory technology (except for Sibelius's Kullervo and Symphony No. 5 as well as Shostakovich's Symphonies Nos. 8 & 11). Over 10 years ago Emi Classics released a DVD-Audio of Rudolf Kempe's legendary interpretation of Strauss's "Also sprach Zarathustra". The mentioned disc was originally recorded quadraphonically at Lukaskirche. 
Will we ever get these - and many other - quadraphonic recordings on physical formats (SACD, DVD-Audio or Bluray Audio)? I bought my second hand copy of Holst's "The Planets" (Previn, DVD-Audio) few weeks ago. And how wonderful it is! Somewhat dry acoustics of the Kingsway Hall, London, sounds pretty good in its original surround form. We definitely need more 4-channel recordings from the catalogue of Emi Classics (nowadays Warner Classics). A box of treasures! We just have to hope that PENTATONE will start a new RQR Series in the future if they will not get more licenses from Philips and DG.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> I don't have yet any new information about the Remastered Classics. But I want to share my worries about the unreleased quadraphonic recordings of Emi Classics.
> As we clearly know Emi Classics was very excited about the opportunities of the new 4-channel sound. The company made over 100 quadraphonic recordings in 1970s. The Sibelius and Shostakovich recordings of Paavo Berglund and Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra were originally recorded with this revelatory technology (except for Sibelius's Kullervo and Symphony No. 5 as well as Shostakovich's Symphonies Nos. 8 & 11). Over 10 years ago Emi Classics released a DVD-Audio of Rudolf Kempe's legendary interpretation of Strauss's "Also sprach Zarathustra". The mentioned disc was originally recorded quadraphonically at Lukaskirche.
> Will we ever get these - and many other - quadraphonic recordings on physical formats (SACD, DVD-Audio or Bluray Audio)? I bought my second hand copy of Holst's "The Planets" (Previn, DVD-Audio) few weeks ago. And how wonderful it is! Somewhat dry acoustics of the Kingsway Hall, London, sounds pretty good in its original surround form. We definitely need more 4-channel recordings from the catalogue of Emi Classics (nowadays Warner Classics). A box of treasures! We just have to hope that PENTATONE will start a new RQR Series in the future if they will not get more licenses from Philips and DG.


The problem ( if one can call it problem) the company's discovered their own "remastering" technique.
So the leftovers will be very poor


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## Luukas

OK, I see. But I have a question about the DVD-Audio discs of Silverline Records. I have collected four albums during the past few months. They are:
1) Berlioz, Hector: Requiem (Grande messe des morts), Op. 5 (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
2) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 4 & Tragic Overture and Academic Festival Overture (same performers)
3) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 3 in D minor (same performers)
4) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 4 in G major (same performers)
The next two albums are still on the way. I will receive them in a couple of days later. Those albums are:
1) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 1 in C minor & Variations on a theme by Joseph Haydn (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
2) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Symphony No. 4 in F minor (Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, Sergiu Comissiona)
Do you have any experiences about the series? I like my own copies very much. I'm going to buy the rest of Abravanel's Mahler and Brahms cycles as well as some modern recordings of the label, for example Strauss's Four Last Songs & A Hero's Life. I want to hear your comments.


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## Vaneyes

I dabbled in Quad recs (pop 'n rock) in the 70's...buying a cheapo box system to play 'em with. Being kind, it was moderately successful. This was before VHS and DVD, so the emphasis then was on music. Now, multi-channel systems are geared more toward movies, as they should be. IMO multi-channel serious music playback is far less successful. You may be enhancing aspects of the sound, a titillation here and there, much like headphones, but you're not revolutionizing anything about/from the straight goods. "Triangulation" still rules for dedicated listening. But, hey! It's what you like to spend your money on that matters. It's what drives a "free" economy. As Triplets says, pro and con opinion of m/c, can be viewed in the TC HiFi forum. :tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

Luukas said:


> OK, I see. But I have a question about the DVD-Audio discs of Silverline Records. I have collected four albums during the past few months. They are:
> 1) Berlioz, Hector: Requiem (Grande messe des morts), Op. 5 (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
> 2) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 4 & Tragic Overture and Academic Festival Overture (same performers)
> 3) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 3 in D minor (same performers)
> 4) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 4 in G major (same performers)
> The next two albums are still on the way. I will receive them in a couple of days later. Those albums are:
> 1) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 1 in C minor & Variations on a theme by Joseph Haydn (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
> 2) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Symphony No. 4 in F minor (Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, Sergiu Comissiona)
> Do you have any experiences about the series? I like my own copies very much. I'm going to buy the rest of Abravanel's Mahler and Brahms cycles as well as some modern recordings of the label, for example Strauss's Four Last Songs & A Hero's Life. I want to hear your comments.


I've heard most of them, but not in that sound format. Performance-wise, comparatively speaking, mediocre. But that's the gist for a lot of sound-marketed product.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> OK, I see. But I have a question about the DVD-Audio discs of Silverline Records. I have collected four albums during the past few months. They are:
> 1) Berlioz, Hector: Requiem (Grande messe des morts), Op. 5 (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
> 2) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 4 & Tragic Overture and Academic Festival Overture (same performers)
> 3) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 3 in D minor (same performers)
> 4) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 4 in G major (same performers)
> The next two albums are still on the way. I will receive them in a couple of days later. Those albums are:
> 1) Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 1 in C minor & Variations on a theme by Joseph Haydn (Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel)
> 2) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Symphony No. 4 in F minor (Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, Sergiu Comissiona)
> Do you have any experiences about the series? I like my own copies very much. I'm going to buy the rest of Abravanel's Mahler and Brahms cycles as well as some modern recordings of the label, for example Strauss's Four Last Songs & A Hero's Life. I want to hear your comments.


I own every one of those discs, which Form the bulk. Of my entire DVD A collection. The recordings are sensational. There are some unfortunates split second pauses during movements on the sSilverline discs.
Abravanel was a great Conductor. The Brahms is particularly satisfying but the Mahler, highly regarded in it's day, may be better.
The Sibelius is a more idiosyncratic but still exciting. Btw there is a complete Brahms and Mahler cycle but you may have to pay extortionate prices for all of them.
The Tacet label released a series by the Auryn String Qt in DVD A that is worth seeking out. Their Beethoven set is particularly good


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> *Hi, everybody!
> I am an excited fan of quadraphonic sound. I have collected nearly every single album of Pentatone's REMASTERED CLASSICS series. In the last year we had a great chance to order 20 remastered quadraphonic albums on SACD discs. And their revelatory series will be expanded this year with 10 more albums from the catalogue of Philips Classics.*


Welcome to TC Luukas!

It's great to have you here. I share your passion for Quad/Multichannel recordings and was hungry for some new information about PentaTone's Quad series. Thanks so much writing to PentaTone and sharing their reply with us.

It may not be classical, but I do have some info about another exciting "classic" Quad release. Bull Moose will release "Chicago Quadio Box" a 9-disc Bluray audio box set of the band's Quadraphonic recordings.

Here's some more...
http://www.bullmoose.com/p/22630986/chicago-chicago-quadio-box-9-disc-blu-ray-audio


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## Luukas

Thank you for your kind words. I will inform you about PENTATONE's new quad albums as soon as possible. This year's released albums are available here: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/8. I will collect them all (including upcoming albums).


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## Luukas

View attachment 84172

Here is my "flower collection". They all have been a great pleasure for me. Especially the opera albums (Carmen and Faust) are very impressive. Hopefully PENTATONE will release more opera discs in the future. I guess that Verdi's "Rigoletto" (Giulini) and Tchaikovsky's "The Queen of Spades" (Rostropovich) were 4-channel productions. It would be great to have Weber's "Der Freischutz" (Kleiber) on SACD. It was the first quadraphonic opera production of Deutsche Grammophon. But for copyright reasons it seems to be impossible. My other favorites are Stravinsky/MTT and Beethoven/Eschenbach. Direct Stream Digital (DSD) really wake these treasures from the past into full bloom!


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## Biwa

That's a beautiful collection! Yes, that Faust and Carmen are wonderful in Quad. And I'm definitely with you all the way on those others...Der Freischutz...Oh man! Don't make me cry! 

Well, getting back to the reissues... I also adore Ozawa's Ravel...sheer bliss. Recently I picked up Tchaikovsky: Nutcracker Suite; Capriccio Italien; Polonaise & Waltz from Eugene Onegin with the London Philharmonic Orchestra under Leopold Stokowski. 








It's another superb reissue by PentaTone. I just can't thank PentaTone enough for all these incredible vintage Quad recordings on SACDs and at such a reasonable price. Outstanding job! :clap:


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## Luukas

Yeah, I agree with you. It is really interesting to see that Philips still have unreleased quadraphonic recordings in their archives. I thought that they were already remastered to Super Audio CD. As I wrote here before Sir Colin Davis's Sibelius cycle with the Boston Symphony Orchestra was originally recorded with 4-channel tapes. And this mentioned cycle is really one of the greatest achievements ever! It received "BBC First Choice" award, for example. And David Hurwitz - the main reviewer of ClassicsToday - gave 10/9 results for reissued SACD [Symphonies Nos. 5 and 7 & En Saga, Op. 9].
It was quite brave to make surround sound recordings at the time when there wasn't advanced listening equipment. I don't have personal experience about this technology but I have heard some stories. Actually I was almost in shock when I noticed the innovation at the first time. How on earth this was possible?
Now I have collected about 20 quadraphonic albums - some of them are DVD-Audio discs. I believe that there is a clear difference between analogue and digital audio. Analogue audio is simply more natural because it shows the sound in its authentic form. Digital audio is always covered with restorations and fixes by a technicians. But the digitalization bring the flawless original audio for us. I think that this is the reason why those - and other - albums from the RQR Series are so beautiful for modern ears.

Finally I will list 5 unreleased quadraphonic recordings from the catalogues of Deutsche Grammophon and Philips Classics. Albums marked * are potential quadraphonic recordings. Hopefully PENTATONE will receive the licenses in 2017.
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON (DG)
1) Holst, Gustav: The Planets & Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra (Boston Symphony Orchestra, William Steinberg) Thomas Mowrey, producer (Recorded in 1970-71 at the Boston Symphony Hall, United States)
2) Berlioz, Hector: Roméo et Juliette (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa) Thomas Mowrey, producer
3) Bernstein, Leonard: Symphonic Dances from West Side Story & Gershwin, George: An American in Paris (San Francisco Symphony, Seiji Ozawa) Thomas Mowrey, producer
4) Weber, Carl Maria von: Der Freischutz (Staatskapelle Dresden, Carlos Kleiber)
5) Liszt, Franz: A Faust Symphony (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein) Thomas Mowrey, producer
PHILIPS CLASSICS
1) Sibelius, Jean: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 and 6 & Tapiola, Op. 112 (Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis) Vittorio Negri, producer (Recorded between 1975-79 at the Boston Symphony Hall, Boston, United States)
2) Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Mass in C minor "Great & Mass in C major "Coronation" (London Symphony Chorus, London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis) Vittorio Negri, producer (Recorded in 1971 at the Westminster Cathedral, London, United Kingdom) *
3) Stravinsky, Igor: The Firebird (complete ballet) (London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis) Vittorio Negri, producer (Recorded in 1978) *
4) Saint-Saëns, Camille: Violin Concerto No. 3 in B minor & Introduction and Rondo capriccioso (Henryk Szeryng, Orchestre National de l'Opera de Monte-Carlo, Edouard van Remoortel (Recorded in 1969 in Monaco) *
5) Strauss, Richard: A Hero's Life (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink) Volker Straus, producer (Recorded in 1970) *

I have listed about 50 potential and real quadraphonic recordings of both companies. I will send the list to PENTATONE if there will not be new quad albums in 2017.


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## Biwa

Thanks for that thorough (and tantalizing) list! With so many wonderful recordings just collecting dust in some vault, we most definitely need PentaTone to continue their much appreciated hard work. Let's hope they get those 15 released soon and... more!

Btw, You're going to have to make room for another flower. I just picked up Schubert's string quintet and Schumann's piano quintet performed by the LaSalle Quartet. I love it! :tiphat:


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## Luukas

I'm just wondering: it would be great to have Sir Georg Solti's recording of Mozart's "The Magic Flute" (recorded in 1969) on SACD. Every cover of this new Philips Classics quad series shows different bird pictures. The bird-catcher Papageno could try to catch the birds! :lol:


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I'm just wondering: it would be great to have Sir Georg Solti's recording of Mozart's "The Magic Flute" (recorded in 1969) on SACD. Every cover of this new Philips Classics quad series shows different bird pictures. The bird-catcher Papageno could try to catch the birds! :lol:


Something like this...









Sounds perfect! :lol:

Btw... Didn't Sawallisch make a Quad recording of The Magic Flute in 1972 on EMI?


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## Luukas

Yes, he made. Emi Classics released it on quad-vinyl disc.


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## Biwa

Some dark clouds in Budapest. I hope this doesn't effect the BFO & Fischer's recordings with Channel Classics.

http://www.pizzicato.lu/budapest-festival-orchestra-loses-642-000-euros/


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## Luukas

Oh, how sad! I have five excellent recordings of the team (Fischer's Mahler cycle except for 6th).


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## Luukas

I almost forgot that the rest of Ozawa's Ravel recordings (Daphnis and Chloe (complete), Rapsodie espagnole, La Valse, Pavane pour une infante défunte & Valses nobles et sentimentales) were originally recorded using quadraphonic tapes. The recording engineer was Thomas Mowrey. PENTATONE should release these classics in two volumes (Vol. 1: Daphnis and Chloe & Vol. 2: other orchestral works). They should also release the rest of Eliahu Inbal's Schumann cycle with the New Philharmonia Orchestra.
Here is an interesting article about the Remastered Classics: http://quadraphonic.info/Thomas_Mowrey/8-Stereoplay-Jan- 2015-Quad.pdf


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## Biwa

After initially working with PentaTone for these Quad SACDs, it seems now that DG is holding onto their Quad recordings. Perhaps to release them on Bluray through their Yellow Label. But, there is no confirmation of this. Thomas Mowrey said he was the one who brought his DG Quad recordings to PentaTone's attention and that he worked extensively to get them released. While the first recordings were being released, new management took this project over at DG. This change in management seems to have affected subsequent PentaTone releases of DG Quad recordings. 

Has PentaTone said anything about this recently?


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## Picander

I've only one box of vinyls with the label "Quadraphone":


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## Luukas

Biwa said:


> After initially working with PentaTone for these Quad SACDs, it seems now that DG is holding onto their Quad recordings. Perhaps to release them on Bluray through their Yellow Label. But, there is no confirmation of this. Thomas Mowrey said he was the one who brought his DG Quad recordings to PentaTone's attention and that he worked extensively to get them released. While the first recordings were being released, new management took this project over at DG. This change in management seems to have affected subsequent PentaTone releases of DG Quad recordings.
> 
> Has PentaTone said anything about this recently?


Not a word. I have tried to ask but there is no answer. Perhaps they will give an answer if somebody else will write a message. Their email address is [email protected]. It will be a great disappointment if there will not be more quad albums in the next few years. Many treasures from the past will never come into full bloom, then.


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## Luukas

I just bought three quad albums of PENTATONE:

1) Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites & Norwegian Dances
English Chamber Orchestra, Raymond Leppard (Remastered Classics)
2) Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 + En Saga, Op. 9
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis (RQR)
3) Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker Suite, Capriccio Italien, Polonaise and Valse from Eugene Onegin
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski (Remastered Classics)

I will receive them within two weeks. :cheers:


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## Biwa

Sure, I will gladly send PentaTone a message encouraging them to continue their efforts. 

About Thomas Mowrey's DG Quad recordings you mentioned above, Quad mixes are ready for The Planets, Romeo & Juliette, and the Bernstein/Gershwin recordings. A Quad mix was not made for the Liszt Faust Symphony, but one could be made as it was recorded eight-track. The same is true for The Freischütz. According to Mr. Mowrey, it was recorded in eight-track and could be mixed to quad, but never was; the eight-track tapes are in DG's vaults.

And...the remaining pieces from Ozawa's Ravel Quad recordings are supposed to be even better!!!

So, there you have it. There are Quad mixes ready to go and plenty of other recordings that could be mixed for Quad. We just need the will to do it.


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## Biwa

I don't have the Grieg/Leppard SACD yet, but you're gonna love the Davis/Sibelius and Tchaikovsky/Stokowski recordings.

Speaking of Sir Colin Davis, do you have PentaTone's SACDs of Berlioz's Requiem and Symphonie Fantasique? They are amazing!!!















And for opera, don't miss Davis's Tosca!


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## Luukas

Thanks for your interesting replies about DG's quad albums. I knew l was mostly right about those recordings. The complete discography of Thomas Mowrey can be found at Discogs. The Wikipedia article tells us that "Der Freischutz" was the first eight-track opera production of Emil Berliner Studios. There aren't any SACDs of "Faust Symphony" but it might be possible to release it with remastered 4-channel layer. We just need the will to do it as you wrote above.
I haven't heard Berlioz's "Requiem" yet. But I have listened those others several times now. "Symphonie fantastique" is simply superb in its original multichannel form. And "Tosca" is even better. The offstage voices in the garden scene can be heard from the left surround speaker. It sounds awesome! More opera recordings, please!!!!!!!!!!!! 
It would be nice if you will share the answer of PENTATONE with us.


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## Luukas

I made a short wish list for PENTATONE. I will send this to them as a humble suggestion. Don't get me wrong: I want passionately hear more quad albums from the past. The productions of Vittorio Negri were most likely made with quadraphonic tapes. But I'm not sure about the others. Read and write comments!

PENTATONE
REMASTERED CLASSICS, PHILIPS CLASSICS

This revelatory series is going to end after 2016 (I'm not sure about this, either). PENTATONE has planned to release more albums in the future. Unfortunately the new management of Deutsche Grammophon will not give them more quadraphonic tapes. But there are still at least ten unreleased quadraphonic recordings in the catalogue of Philips Classics. These recordings could be the upcoming albums for the next year. It is always very fascinating to hear these gems from the past in their original forms. Above all, the new Direct Stream Digital (DSD) remastering shows more details for the listener. 

Here they are (the albums are listed how they should appear in their physical forms): 

1) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 (Total time: 84'11)
Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Jean Sibelius
- Recording date: April 1976
- Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

2) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 3 and 4 (Total time: 63'43)
Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Jean Sibelius
- Recording date: December 1976
- Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

3) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 6; Finlandia, Op. 26 & Tapiola, Op. 112 (Total time: 51'04)
Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
Jean Sibelius
- Recording date: December 1975 (Tapiola), April 1976 (Finlandia) & December 1976 (Symphony No. 6)
- Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

4) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Mass in C minor "Great" & Mass in C major "Coronation" (Total time: approx. 76 min)
Sir Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra, London Symphony Chorus, The John Alldis Choir, Helen Donath, Gillian Knight, Ryland Davies, Stafford Dean, Heather Harper,
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
- Recording date: February 1971
- Recording location: Westminster Cathedral, London, United Kingdom
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

5) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Piano Concertos No. 20 in D minor & No. 24 in C minor (Total time: approx. 60 min)
Alfred Brendel, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Sir Neville Marriner
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
- Recording date: June 1973
- Recording location: Brent Town Hall, Wembley, London, United Kingdom
- Producer: Volker Straus

6) SCHUBERT, FRANZ: Symphony No. 9 in C major "Great", D. 944 (Total time: approx. 50 min)
Bernard Haitink, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Franz Schubert
- Recording date: December 1975
- Recording location: Concertgebouw, Grote Zaal, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Volker Straus

7) STRAVINSKY, IGOR: The Firebird (L'Oiseau de feu): Complete Ballet (Total time: approx. 50 min)
Sir Colin Davis, Royal Concergebouw Orchestra
Igor Stravinsky
- Recording date: November 1978
- Recording location: Concertgebouw, Grote Zaal, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

8) BRITTEN, BENJAMIN: Peter Grimes, Op. 33: complete (Total time: approx. 1 h 30 min)
Sir Colin Davis, Orchestra of the Royal Opera House Covent Garden, Jon Vickers, Heather Harper, Jonathan Summers
Benjamin Britten
- Recording date: May 1978
- Recording location: All Saints' Church, Tooting, London, United Kingdom
- Producer: Vittorio Negri

9) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Violin Concerto in D minor, Op. 47 & 6 Humoresques for violin and orchestra, Op. 87 & Op. 89 (Total time: approx. 50 min)
Sir Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra, Salvatore Accardo
Jean Sibelius
- Recording date: March 1979
- Recording location: All Saints' Church, Tooting, London, United Kingdom

10) LISZT, FRANZ: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 and Totentanz (Total time: approx. 50 min)
Bernard Haitink, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Alfred Brendel
Franz Liszt
- Recording date: May 1972
- Recording location: Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London, United Kingdom
- Producer: Volker Strauss


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## Biwa

If I remember correctly, Vittorio Negri produced PentaTone's RQR SACD Rossini - Overtures conducted by Marriner. I would love to hear many more of his Quad recordings. Thomas Mowrey said DG has 300 Quad albums in its vaults. What the heck are they waiting for, eh!?

Btw, one of the most immersive Quad albums of the RQR series is an offbeat percussion performance...called East Meets West. Pretty cool stuff!









http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2365#reviews


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## Luukas

Yes, you have a point Biwa. DG has potential to give more quad tapes for PENTATONE but they don't want to do it. This situation is really ridiculous. I haven't heard that percussion album yet but according to the review it is an demonstration disc of this 4-channel technology.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Yes, you have a point Biwa. *DG has potential* to give more quad tapes for PENTATONE but they don't want to do it. This situation is really ridiculous. I haven't heard that percussion album yet but according to the review it is an demonstration disc of this 4-channel technology.


BIG POTENTIAL!!!

DG had an excellent opportunity to release a Quad (or a 5.1) version of Der Freischütz when they released the Bluray box set of Carlos Kleiber recordings a couple of years ago.

It's not only ridiculous, but also sad. Around the year 2027, some producer over at DG will be saying something like... "We could have remixed Der Freischütz to Quad ten years ago, but now the master tapes have deteriorated too much." 

Anyway, I am hopeful that PentaTone will keep trying to release more quad recordings on SACD. I really want them to get involved with EMI and Columbia's Quad recordings, too.


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## Luukas

I agree. I sent email to Deutsche Grammophon: "I hope that you will publish Kleiber's marvelous recording of Weber's "Der Freischutz" on multichannel SACD". But they answered: "Unfortunately, we do not plan to re-release the mentioned recording. However, your suggestions are very much appreciated!" 
Here we are. DG will not give the license and tape for PENTATONE and they don't want to do it either. I just have to listen the entire album with Dolby Digital Pro Logic surround decoder which creates quite unrealistic surround sound for Compact Discs.
There are many marvelous quad recordings between 1969-1980. I have listed the most interesting 4-channel recordings from the catalogue of Warner Classics. The list contains over 120 recordings from that period. PENTATONE should start a contract in the future.


----------



## Pugg

Luukas said:


> I made a short wish list for PENTATONE. I will send this to them as a humble suggestion. Don't get me wrong: I want passionately hear more quad albums from the past. The productions of Vittorio Negri were most likely made with quadraphonic tapes. But I'm not sure about the others. Read and write comments!
> 
> PENTATONE
> REMASTERED CLASSICS, PHILIPS CLASSICS
> 
> This revelatory series is going to end after 2016 (I'm not sure about this, either). PENTATONE has planned to release more albums in the future. Unfortunately the new management of Deutsche Grammophon will not give them more quadraphonic tapes. But there are still at least ten unreleased quadraphonic recordings in the catalogue of Philips Classics. These recordings could be the upcoming albums for the next year. It is always very fascinating to hear these gems from the past in their original forms. Above all, the new Direct Stream Digital (DSD) remastering shows more details for the listener.
> 
> Here they are (the albums are listed how they should appear in their physical forms):
> 
> 1) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 (Total time: 84'11)
> Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
> Jean Sibelius
> - Recording date: April 1976
> - Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 2) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 3 and 4 (Total time: 63'43)
> Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
> Jean Sibelius
> - Recording date: December 1976
> - Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 3) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 6; Finlandia, Op. 26 & Tapiola, Op. 112 (Total time: 51'04)
> Sir Colin Davis, Boston Symphony Orchestra
> Jean Sibelius
> - Recording date: December 1975 (Tapiola), April 1976 (Finlandia) & December 1976 (Symphony No. 6)
> - Recording location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 4) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Mass in C minor "Great" & Mass in C major "Coronation" (Total time: approx. 76 min)
> Sir Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra, London Symphony Chorus, The John Alldis Choir, Helen Donath, Gillian Knight, Ryland Davies, Stafford Dean, Heather Harper,
> Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> - Recording date: February 1971
> - Recording location: Westminster Cathedral, London, United Kingdom
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 5) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Piano Concertos No. 20 in D minor & No. 24 in C minor (Total time: approx. 60 min)
> Alfred Brendel, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Sir Neville Marriner
> Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
> - Recording date: June 1973
> - Recording location: Brent Town Hall, Wembley, London, United Kingdom
> - Producer: Volker Straus
> 
> 6) SCHUBERT, FRANZ: Symphony No. 9 in C major "Great", D. 944 (Total time: approx. 50 min)
> Bernard Haitink, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
> Franz Schubert
> - Recording date: December 1975
> - Recording location: Concertgebouw, Grote Zaal, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Volker Straus
> 
> 7) STRAVINSKY, IGOR: The Firebird (L'Oiseau de feu): Complete Ballet (Total time: approx. 50 min)
> Sir Colin Davis, Royal Concergebouw Orchestra
> Igor Stravinsky
> - Recording date: November 1978
> - Recording location: Concertgebouw, Grote Zaal, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 8) BRITTEN, BENJAMIN: Peter Grimes, Op. 33: complete (Total time: approx. 1 h 30 min)
> Sir Colin Davis, Orchestra of the Royal Opera House Covent Garden, Jon Vickers, Heather Harper, Jonathan Summers
> Benjamin Britten
> - Recording date: May 1978
> - Recording location: All Saints' Church, Tooting, London, United Kingdom
> - Producer: Vittorio Negri
> 
> 9) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Violin Concerto in D minor, Op. 47 & 6 Humoresques for violin and orchestra, Op. 87 & Op. 89 (Total time: approx. 50 min)
> Sir Colin Davis, London Symphony Orchestra, Salvatore Accardo
> Jean Sibelius
> - Recording date: March 1979
> - Recording location: All Saints' Church, Tooting, London, United Kingdom
> 
> 10) LISZT, FRANZ: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 and Totentanz (Total time: approx. 50 min)
> Bernard Haitink, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Alfred Brendel
> Franz Liszt
> - Recording date: May 1972
> - Recording location: Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London, United Kingdom
> - Producer: Volker Strauss


Nice list, however no 5 is juts announced on Vinyl on Decca, like so many others .
See Presto classical:tiphat:


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## Luukas

Before his announcement for Managing Director of PENTATONE Dirk van Dijk worked closely with Philips Classics. He should know how to release more quad albums of the company. If everything goes well with those new albums this isn't perhaps the end.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Before his announcement for Managing Director of PENTATONE, Dirk van Dijk worked closely with Philips Classics. He should know how to release more quad albums of the label.


He or his predecessor promised to do classical Decca recording for Pentatone.
Decca remastered them their self.


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## Luukas

Remastered or remixed? Most of them have a text: "Surround mix by somebody". The results are not always very impressive because those recordings weren't originally intended for multichannel playback systems.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Remastered or remixed? Most of them have a text: "Surround mix by somebody". The results are not always very impressive because those recordings weren't originally intended for multichannel playback systems.


As I recall, he promised the best available sound, I check it out for you and come back to you later :tiphat:


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## Luukas

I want to share my thoughts about quadraphonic technology. Firstly it is simply amazing that this kind of technology was available in those days! There weren't cell phones, videogames or other comforts. But there was this four speakers surround sound! My uncle said that those ten years were time of progress. Secondly it is very important to re-release the entire catalogue of quadraphonic recordings. The engineers, artists and designers wanted to hear them with multichannel sound. If the recordings just stay in stereo their wishes will never come true. And thirdly there is finally a system - SACD and home theater - which is compatible with original 4-channel sound.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I want to share my thoughts about quadraphonic technology. Firstly it is simply amazing that this kind of technology was available in those days! There weren't cell phones, videogames or other comforts. But there was this four speakers surround sound! My uncle said that those ten years were time of progress. Secondly it is very important to re-release the entire catalogue of quadraphonic recordings. The engineers, artists and designers wanted to hear them with multichannel sound. If the recordings just stay in stereo their wishes will never come true. And thirdly there is finally a system - SACD and home theater - which is compatible with original 4-channel sound.


Gee whizzers, imagine that. No cell phones, videogames, or other comforts. How did we survive one day to the next. Did we actually to have read books ourselves? I remember riding my Stegasaurus to my first Orchestral Concert and worrying that he would eat the Tuba player...


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## Luukas

What RQR albums (PENTATONE) are your favorites? I'm going to plan my future orders and therefore I want to hear your recommendations. I will buy the following SACDs in the future:
1) Beethoven, Ludwig van: The 9 Symphonies (Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Kurt Masur) PTC 5186 159 (5 discs)
2) Beethoven, Ludwig van: The 11 Overtures (Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Kurt Masur) PTC 5186 148 (2 discs)
3) Berlioz, Hector: Requiem, Op. 5 "Grande messe des morts" (Ronald Dowd, Wandsworth School Boys' Choir, LSC & LSO, Sir Colin Davis) PTC 5186 191 (2 discs)
4) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 8 "Symphony of a Thousand" (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam, Bernard Haitink) PTC 5186 166
5) Rachmaninov, Sergei: Piano Concerto No. 2 & Paganini Rhapsody (Werner Haas, Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra, Eliahu Inbal) PTC 5186 114


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## Biwa

How sweet it is! (as Jackie Gleason used to say )

Yep, Quad is pretty cool! We've been so fortunate that it came back in the 90s! But to be fair, the 1950s did a lot for recorded music, too. Living Stereo's recordings are light years ahead of recordings from the 1940s. And some of them are even in 3-channel!!

Recommended RQR recordings:

Most definitely Haitink's Mahler 8th. Surround is a must for that symphony. Markus Stenz's recording of the 8th on Oehms is incredible as well. Highly recommended... http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=8259#reviews

Masur's Beethoven cycle is good, traditional Beethoven. As with all cycles, some performances are better than others. But, it's so reasonable that you might as well get the whole set.

Marriner's Rossini is delightful. 
Davis's 1812 is good fun. 
I highly recommend all the Beaux Arts Trio (ex.Haydn - Piano Trios, Schubert - Trout) 
and Quartetto Italiano recordings (ex.Beethoven - Quartets)
Varviso - Wagner overtures

One of my personal favorites is Daniel Chorzempa - Händel organ concertos vol.1-4
His Bach - Liszt organ recording is good, too!


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## Luukas

I have DVD-Audio of Holst's "The Planets" (LSO, Previn, Emi Classics). The album has been recorded quadraphonically at the Kingsway Hall, London, in 1973. Superb surround sound, top-notch performance. My own favorite disc, then. According to the booklet there were four microphones behind the artists - perhaps for the ambience and for surround speakers. It is a great disappointment that the other DVDA-discs of Emi Classics are very expensive.


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## Richard8655

My thoughts on quad. I never really understood the fascination with quad, 4-channel, or modern day multi-channel sound for classical music. Although these performance are probably excellent, I'm not so sure I need more than 2 channels to appreciate them. 

The orchestra basically sits in front of me in a live performance, so I wonder why it should be any different with reproduction at home. It can be argued that concert hall ambience and sound reflections are simulated by multi-channel, but my 2 speakers do the same thing with my room acoustics. Headphone listening may be a different aspect, I acknowledge.

Anyway, in quad's heyday many couldn't afford or didn't want to shell out for 4, let alone 2, high quality speakers and for questionable benefits. So I can see why quad didn't make it. Modern multi-channel might make more sense in cinema for special effects (i.e., Jurassic dinosaurs roaming around). But many, if not most (especially around the world), just don't have the room for surround speakers everywhere, and in my opinion doesn't significantly add to the appreciation.


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## Luukas

Hi, Richard8655! I really appreciate your opinions. But I want to tell my own story with surround sound technology. Before this new way to enjoy classical music I listened music just in stereo. This normal 2-channel equipment was enough for me. But things radically changed about three years ago. I read an interesting article about Super Audio CD and its surround sound capacity. The writer praised and recommended it. I was very excited about this new opportunity. 
And the difference was indeed ravishing. Surround sound created a feeling that I was in the concert hall, sitting on the best seat behind the musicians. And the additional low-frequency channel - commonly called "subwoofer" - increased the low voices from the orchestra. And SACD worked even better with operas. There I was virtually in the middle of the action. 
Nowadays I will order just Super Audio CDs, DVDA-discs and BDA-discs. There are still some CDs in my collection. But I have given most of them away. For me, it is very strange to listen 2-channel stereo today. No ambience and no three-dimensional sound field. There is just this simple flat sound in front of you. And there are many works that really requires a multichannel playback system: Strauss's "An Alpine Symphony", Mahler's "Resurrection Symphony", Bizet's "Carmen", Berlioz's "The judgement of Faust", Holst's "The Planets" and Weber's "Der Freischutz", for example. There is no reason to go back to regular stereo. I decided this when I heard surround sound SACD at the first time. The old quadraphonic recordings are nice too. They proves that even 30 and 40 years ago people knew the possibilities of multichannel technology. "Someday there will be an excited audience that will applause our efforts". 
For me, surround sound is the only way to listen classical music now.


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## Luukas

View attachment 84311


I just purchased this fantastic quad album at pentatonemusic.com! I have heard it once before because I borrowed it at the library. The famous shots of cannons can be heard from the surround speakers with awesome power. The subwoofer shook the size of rooms. "Watch out your heads!"  You were right, Biwa. It is really good fun. And it is hard to believe that the disc was actually recorded 37 years ago! But now I decided to buy it as part of my SACD library. 
By the way, I have collected all Sibelius/Davis/Pentatone albums so far. Hopefully there will be more RQR Sibelius albums in the future.


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## Richard8655

Luukas said:


> Hi, Richard8655! I really appreciate your opinions. But I want to tell my own story with surround sound technology. Before this new way to enjoy classical music I listened music just in stereo. This normal 2-channel equipment was enough for me. But things radically changed about three years ago. I read an interesting article about Super Audio CD and its surround sound capacity. The writer praised and recommended it. I was very excited about this new opportunity.
> And the difference was indeed ravishing. Surround sound created a feeling that I was in the concert hall, sitting on the best seat behind the musicians. And the additional low-frequency channel - commonly called "subwoofer" - increased the low voices from the orchestra. And SACD worked even better with operas. There I was virtually in the middle of the action.
> Nowadays I will order just Super Audio CDs, DVDA-discs and BDA-discs. There are still some CDs in my collection. But I have given most of them away. For me, it is very strange to listen 2-channel stereo today. No ambience and no three-dimensional sound field. There is just this simple flat sound in front of you. And there are many works that really requires a multichannel playback system: Strauss's "An Alpine Symphony", Mahler's "Resurrection Symphony", Bizet's "Carmen", Berlioz's "The judgement of Faust", Holst's "The Planets" and Weber's "Der Freischutz", for example. There is no reason to go back to regular stereo. I decided this when I heard surround sound SACD at the first time. The old quadraphonic recordings are nice too. They proves that even 30 and 40 years ago people knew the possibilities of multichannel technology. "Someday there will be an excited audience that will applause our efforts".
> For me, surround sound is the only way to listen classical music now.


Thanks Luukas, interesting background information and experience you provided. Well, I have to say I never implemented multi-channel in my home system, so my opinion might be a bit unfair and unbalanced. I have gone with SACD however, but only using the 2 channel layer with a 2-channel player.

But I believe you in your positive experiences with concert hall ambience and 3 dimensional quality of multi-channel audio. I'll give it another consideration. You many have set me straight with improved SACD sound.

I'm wondering, though, given that CM downloads (i.e., iTunes, Amazon, etc.), are ever more popular, if multi-channel or surround sound is available with these digital download formats. I'm also assuming SACD quality audio would only be available from an SACD disc. However, recent good audio equipment have improved 192khz/24bit DACs in decoding digital music to higher resolution, which may or may not be equivalent to SACD quality.


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## Triplets

Richard8655 said:


> Thanks Luukas, interesting background information and experience you provided. Well, I have to say I never implemented multi-channel in my home system, so my opinion might be a bit unfair and unbalanced. I have gone with SACD however, but only using the 2 channel layer with a 2-channel player.
> 
> But I believe you in your positive experiences with concert hall ambience and 3 dimensional quality of multi-channel audio. I'll give it another consideration. You many have set me straight with improved SACD sound.
> 
> I'm wondering, though, given that CM downloads (i.e., iTunes, Amazon, etc.), are ever more popular, if multi-channel or surround sound is available with these digital download formats. I'm also assuming SACD quality audio would only be available from an SACD disc. However, recent good audio equipment have improved 192khz/24bit DACs in decoding digital music to higher resolution, which may or may not be equivalent to SACD quality.


High Resolutin downloads, especially DSD, can exceed SACD in quality. Many SACDs are available as High Res downloads. More options for the listener


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## Luukas

I finished my wish list for PENTATONE in the evening. There are 60 potential quadraphonic recordings of Deutsche Grammophon and Philips Classics. 10 of them are definite quad albums. I will wait until the end of this year before I send the list to the company. 
Biwa, have you already received the answer of PENTATONE? It would be great if you will share it with us.


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## Biwa

I sent PentaTone an email on May 5. I am still waiting for a reply from them. 

Glad you're enjoying all the action of the 1812. We're so lucky to have these amazing Quad recordings in beautiful DSD surround sound. Master tapes don't last forever. The master tapes of Solti's famous Ring cycle have deteriorated beyond repair. Now the best (or at least closest to the original) version we'll probably ever hear is the 24/48 remastering done in the late 1990s. All subsequent remasterings are based on that. Solti's recordings were made just a few years before Quad started. Thus, it's only a matter of time before Quad masters become unusable.

Some other RQR recordings that I am fond of are Claudio Arrau's piano recitals.





















These recordings are from his mature period and show his vision of seeing these works as a cohesive whole. 
Some folks who primarily listen to solo guitar, etc... might feel stereo is enough. The intimate sounds produced by some instruments can be admirably reproduced by stereo. So, I can't fault some people for feeling that way, especially if limited room space is a factor. More options for listeners is a good thing. It is also wonderful to listen to solo instruments or voices in Quad/multichannel. The 3 dimensional soundstage offers an improved and more natural audio experience.


----------



## Luukas

Yes, you are right. Thanks to the DSD these quad recordings sounds pretty cool like they were recorded yesterday. 
Before this "Remastered Classics" series all RQR albums of Pentatone were released with kind permission of Philips Classics. Is it possible to release quadraphonic recordings from the archives of Decca Classics? I know that Philips Classics is a division of Universal Music Group. But it would be delightful to hear Solti's recording of Humperdinck's "Hänsel und Gretel" (1978) on SACD. There is a distant chorus (echo) in the second act. On surround it could be possible to hear from the surround speakers. Or, we definitely need a SACD version of Gershwin's "Porgy and Bess". Lorin Maazel recorded the work in 1976 for Decca with the Cleveland Orchestra. NOTE: I'm not sure about the years of those recordings. Anyway, they were recorded in the middle of 'seventies.
Oh, and Solti's impressive recording of Mozart's "Don Giovanni" (recorded in 1978). Quad reaches the best results with operas.


----------



## Biwa

Well, some good news...kind of. I just got a reply from PentaTone...

"Unfortunately I cannot give you any information about our future plans. All I can say is that we are negotiating with some majors to continue working on our "Remastered Classics" series. All info about our releases will be announced on http://www.pentatonemusic.com/ or http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases

It's a bit vague and brief, but I'm glad to hear that they're trying to keep these Quad SACDs going with "some majors".

Fingers crossed!!


----------



## Luukas

Biwa said:


> Well, some good news...kind of. I just got a reply from PentaTone...
> 
> "Unfortunately I cannot give you any information about our future plans. All I can say is that we are negotiating with some majors to continue working on our "Remastered Classics" series. All info about our releases will be announced on http://www.pentatonemusic.com/ or http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases
> 
> It's a bit vague and brief, but I'm glad to hear that they're trying to keep these Quad SACDs going with "some majors".
> 
> Fingers crossed!!


Wow, this is simply AMAZING!  Thank you for all the trouble you have taken. Let's wait and see...


----------



## Luukas

This phrase "some majors" is quite mystical. But I think that it means the unreleased quad albums of Thomas Mowrey. They are:
1) Liszt, Franz: A Faust Symphony (BSO, Bernstein) "It might be possible to make 4-channel surround sound from the 8-track originals".
2) Berlioz, Hector: Romeo et Juliette, Op. 17 (BSO, Ozawa) "This thrilling recording was definitely recorded with quadraphonic tapes. We need a multichannel version. The famous opening of the Love Scene sets the male chorus into distance. I guess that this setting was captured originally with surround speakers. Awesome addition to Berlioz/Ozawa collection, then!"
3) Bernstein, Leonard: Symphonic Dances from "West Side Story" & Gershwin, George: An American in Paris (SFS, Ozawa)
4) Holst, Gustav: The Planets & Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra (BSO, Steinberg) "These spectacular recordings from the early days of quadro will finally come into full bloom on SACD!"
5) Ravel, Maurice: Orchestral Works Volume 2 (includes La Valse, Bolero, Pavane for the dead princess & Rhapsodie espagnole) (BSO, Ozawa)
6) Ravel, Maurice: Daphnis et Chloe (complete ballet) (BSO, Ozawa) "Ozawa's furious Daphnis from 1974 will be a great pleasure for many".

And perhaps these ones (if they were really 4-channel recordings):
7) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Pique Dame (National Orchestra of France, Rostropovich) 
8) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 5 (Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Abbado)
9) Vivaldi, Antonio: The Four Seasons (Kremer, LSO, Abbado)
10) Respighi, Ottorino: Pines of Rome, Roman Festivals & Fountains of Rome (BSO, Ozawa)
11) Elgar, Edward: Enigma Variations & Pomp and Circumstances - Marches Nos. 1-5 (RPO, Del Mar)
12) Verdi, Giuseppe: Rigoletto (Wiener Philharmoniker, Giulini)


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## Luukas

View attachment 84381
View attachment 84382


The Grieg/Leppard album arrived in the afternoon. I haven't heard it yet but I will listen it soon. How exciting... 
By the way, there can be found an interesting note in the booklet: "This album was recorded at the Walthamstow Town Hall, London, United Kingdom in November 1975 and remastered in Baarn, The Netherlands, in December 2015". 40 years and 1 month. The quadraphonic tapes were in their boxes such a long time.


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## Luukas

The brochure - which arrives with every album - shows that this annoying situation between PENTATONE and Deutsche Grammophon isn't the end of the series. "For any upgrades to planning, please visit www.pentatonemusic.com". Cheers... :cheers:
But there is an error, I think. The list also contains Grieg's "Holberg Suite, Op. 40" that should be available with the present release. But there is nothing. Perhaps the tapes weren't in good condition? Nevertheless, it will be a great pleasure to hear the other works on the album in their original forms. 
View attachment 84383
View attachment 84384
View attachment 84385

I just listened Peer Gynt Suites Nos. I & II. My first impression is very positive. Colorful performances with clear, detailed sound. Listen to the sound of the triangle in "Anitra's Dance"! Or, the juicy sound of the bass drum in "Peer Gynt's homecoming"! What an awesome listening experience! This magnificent series keep going to the highest standards! Highly recommended for all music lovers and audiophiles, definitely.


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## Luukas

Yippee!  The latest additions to the Remastered Classics (Mozart/Brendel & Bizet/Marriner) can be ordered in advance at http://www.pentatonemusic.com/catalog. I will pick up my own copies soon...


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## Biwa

Thanks for the heads up! I'm looking forward to those upcoming releases. Nice mini review of the Grieg/Leppard disc. I've got quite a few things that I am eager to get. There are these PentaTone SACDs. And... Audio Fidelity has several new reissues of old Quad recordings of 1970s pop/rock/soul... on SACD. "Earth, Wind & Fire - Head to the Sky" is on my wishlist. https://audiofidelity.net/category/sacd

I'm enjoying this lovely spring evening with...









Ravel: Daphnis et Chloë Suites 1 & 2, Ma Mère l'Oye, Bolero

Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra
Bernard Haitink (conductor)

Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra
Edo de Waart (conductor)


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## Luukas

View attachment 84449
View attachment 84450
View attachment 84451

The Tchaikovsky/Sibelius/Davis album arrived in the morning from the warehouse of PENTATONE. Sealed pristine product. And quite rare today, I think. The online shop of PENTATONE was the cheapest place to purchase. Anyway, an essential addition to my SACD library, then. I'm going to collect the every single RQR album. It is very important to release these old 4-channel recordings in their original forms, indeed.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 84449
> View attachment 84450
> View attachment 84451
> 
> The Tchaikovsky/Sibelius/Davis album arrived in the morning from the warehouse of PENTATONE. Sealed pristine product. And quite rare today, I think. The online shop of PENTATONE was the cheapest place to purchase. Anyway, an essential addition to my SACD library, then. I'm going to collect the every single RQR album. It is very important to release these old 4-channel recordings in their original forms, indeed.


I bought that one a few years ago. It is a fun album but I still prefer Dorati for the 1812 on Mercury. I think Davis is a bit to sedate with the canon...I am going to order the Grieg, though.


----------



## Luukas

Triplets said:


> I bought that one a few years ago. It is a fun album but I still prefer Dorati for the 1812 on Mercury. I think Davis is a bit to sedate with the canon...I am going to order the Grieg, though.


It is nice to hear that you will order the Grieg/Leppard album. I guarantee you will like it!


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## Triplets

Just did, along with a Stowkowski Nutcracker with the LPO.


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## Biwa

Yippee! (if I may borrow your word, Luukas ) I just heard some other fabulous news. 
TACET is finally releasing the looooong-awaited 9th symphony of Beethoven in SURROUND!!!

Oh yeah!!









http://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?layout=katalog&language=en&filename=production.php&bestnr=02194


----------



## Luukas

Biwa said:


> Yippee! (if I may borrow your word, Luukas ) I just heard some other fabulous news.
> TACET is finally releasing the looooong-awaited 9th symphony of Beethoven in SURROUND!!!
> 
> Oh yeah!!
> 
> View attachment 84454
> 
> 
> http://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?layout=katalog&language=en&filename=production.php&bestnr=02194


Don't worry Biwa, it is just a word.  Anyway, this is an important news, indeed. Tacet's "Real Surround Sound" is world-famous. For example, Carlo Rizzi's Ravel album - which is also available on Bluray Audio - received double five-star review at HRAudio.net. 
By the way, PENTATONE is going to release a new recording of Beethoven's Ninth with Andrew Manze. http://www.pentatonemusic.com/beethoven-symphony-no-9-ndr-philharmonie-hannover-andrew-manze


----------



## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Just did, along with a Stowkowski Nutcracker with the LPO.


Yeah, I ordered the same albums at the same time + Davis's Sibelius (Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 + En Saga). They are still on the way.


----------



## Luukas

There were hundreds, even thousands of quadraphonic recordings in 1970s. And the music style wasn't just classical: there were 4-channel productions in rock, jazz and so on. But I have a question about two classical recordings from that era. I hope that somebody will give an answer.
1) We have already Berlioz's "Requiem" on SACD (1969, LSO, Davis). PENTATONE released the album about five years ago. But the same team made another Berlioz recording in those days. "Te Deum" was recorded in 1969 and coupled later with the "Requiem" on Philips CD reissue. Was this a quadraphonic recording? Some years ago LSO Live - the orchestra's own label - released updated performance with Davis as part of "Sir Colin Davis Anthology" box set. This modern interpretation is pretty nice but it would be great to hear the old one with surround sound. Now it seems that Philips still have many unreleased 4-channel recordings in their archives. 
2) And how about Decca Classics? Did they make quadraphonic recordings? There are Weber's "Der Freischutz" (Kubelik, Thomas Mowrey, 1979) and Humperdinck's "Hänsel und Gretel" (Solti, 1978), for example. I know that it would be quite silly to start another "Remastered Classics" series with Decca Classics.
Do you have any comments?


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## Luukas

WOW! Now we have Rajski's Beethoven cycle on 3 BDA-discs! http://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?layout=katalog&language=en&filename=production.php&bestnr=09745


----------



## Pugg

I come with no harm and no hostility, can someone please explain, except that you are "hi-fi fans" why on earth you want that recordings for? You do know most of them are leftovers that nobody else wants?


----------



## Pugg

Just found this one :

Discount

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/promotion/pentatone


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## Luukas

Pugg said:


> Just found this one :
> 
> Discount
> 
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/promotion/pentatone


Yes, I also noticed it. I will buy some RQR albums during the discount.


----------



## Luukas

View attachment 84574
View attachment 84575

The Sibelius/Davis and Tchaikovsky/Stokowski albums arrived today. The Tchaikovsky album was pretty good. I wrote a little review at HRAudio.net http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11320#comments. 
But the Sibelius disc was really incredible!  I have listened just "En Saga", Op. 9. Davis found the natural flow to the music of Sibelius. Everything moved forward without forcing and transitions between harmonies and sections happened in a balanced way. The brand new DSD remastering brought real revelations. Listen to the fresh sound of the cymbals in "En Saga"! Or the sturdy sound of the brass! Sensational stuff, absolutely. This beats the recent ones: Berglund, Karajan, Kamu, Vänskä, Maazel, Abravanel, Barbirolli and so on. As John Miller says in his review: "Sibelius fans will not only want this disc of Davis/Boston/Phillips, but more from the Pentatone Sibelius archives". 
Pentatone, please, PLEASE! Release the rest of Davis's Sibelius cycle on SACD! It was originally recorded with 8-channel tapes. According to this short whiff the other albums will be terrific listening experiences. I can almost see a swan in the cover and the following text: "JEAN SIBELIUS: SYMPHONIES NOS. 1 & 4, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis, PENTATONE REMASTERED CLASSICS".


----------



## Biwa

Pugg said:


> I come with no harm and no hostility, can someone please explain, except that you are "hi-fi fans" why on earth you want that recordings for? You do know most of them are leftovers that nobody else wants?


Don't worry. No offense taken. 

I'll take a stab at explaining this crazy obsession.  
I think you are asking why we want the old Quadraphonic recordings from the 1970s released on SACD, right?

Well...first of all, there are many Quad recordings from the 1970s that were NEVER released as Quadraphonic recordings. The Quad program pretty much ended around 1976. A few things were released as Quad after this, but most of these recordings were remixed as 2-channel stereo LPs or CDs. Today we have better technology & audio systems that can play Quadraphonic (4-channel) recordings beautifully. So, we want to listen to these recordings as they were originally conceived and recorded.

Recently there was a discussion on another TC thread about Vinyl vs. CD. 
Most vinyl fans love the warm analogue sound. It more naturally captures the sounds of a performance. They think CDs have a harsh digital edge to the sound, for example the violins.

Most CD fans love the clear sound of digital without the scratches and the "snap, crackle, and pop" of old LPs. Each time you play an LP, the needle cuts the groove on the vinyl. Over time the sound becomes worse. CDs also have a wider, more dynamic range than vinyl recordings. And of course CDs are more convenient.

Hi-resolution recordings and formats (such as DVD Audio, SA-CDs, Bluray Audio and Hi-Rez downloads) have both 2-channel stereo AND multichannel recordings (Quad & 5.1). Hi-Rez recordings try to utilize the best of both worlds: Vinyl and CDs. These Hi-Rez recordings are digital, so they have a wide dynamic range and clear sound with no pops or other 'vinyl' noise. But, the higher resolution gives them a warm, natural sound...like analogue (vinyl).

If you have a decent audio system with amps, big speakers, etc..., the improvement in sound quality is noticeable...and highly recommended. 
If you only listen on a small, inexpensive audio system, soundbar, or earbuds..., you probably won't be able to notice a big improvement. The speakers simply don't produce fine detailed sound, so you don't need such Hi-Rez recordings.

Many Hi-Rez listeners just listen in 2-channel Stereo. There are various reasons for this...preference, limited space, etc...

I love the 3-dimensional audio experience multichannel gives recordings. The music naturally blooms and fills my room similar to what I hear in a concert hall or cathedral. Of course my room isn't exactly the same these wonderful venues. But, multichannel surround sound gets the closest to this IMHO.

I hope I didn't ramble on too much and my explanation helps. :tiphat:


----------



## Triplets

Pugg said:


> I come with no harm and no hostility, can someone please explain, except that you are "hi-fi fans" why on earth you want that recordings for? You do know most of them are leftovers that nobody else wants?


Are you wondering about the particular recordings being discussed, or about the love of Multichannel and High Resolution recordings in general?


----------



## Pugg

Biwa said:


> Don't worry. No offense taken.
> 
> I'll take a stab at explaining this crazy obsession.
> I think you are asking why we want the old Quadraphonic recordings from the 1970s released on SACD, right?
> 
> Well...first of all, there are many Quad recordings from the 1970s that were NEVER released as Quadraphonic recordings. The Quad program pretty much ended around 1976. A few things were released as Quad after this, but most of these recordings were remixed as 2-channel stereo LPs or CDs. Today we have better technology & audio systems that can play Quadraphonic (4-channel) recordings beautifully. So, we want to listen to these recordings as they were originally conceived and recorded.
> 
> Recently there was a discussion on another TC thread about Vinyl vs. CD.
> Most vinyl fans love the warm analogue sound. It more naturally captures the sounds of a performance. They think CDs have a harsh digital edge to the sound, for example the violins.
> 
> Most CD fans love the clear sound of digital without the scratches and the "snap, crackle, and pop" of old LPs. Each time you play an LP, the needle cuts the groove on the vinyl. Over time the sound becomes worse. CDs also have a wider, more dynamic range than vinyl recordings. And of course CDs are more convenient.
> 
> Hi-resolution recordings and formats (such as DVD Audio, SA-CDs, Bluray Audio and Hi-Rez downloads) have both 2-channel stereo AND multichannel recordings (Quad & 5.1). Hi-Rez recordings try to utilize the best of both worlds: Vinyl and CDs. These Hi-Rez recordings are digital, so they have a wide dynamic range and clear sound with no pops or other 'vinyl' noise. But, the higher resolution gives them a warm, natural sound...like analogue (vinyl).
> 
> If you have a decent audio system with amps, big speakers, etc..., the improvement in sound quality is noticeable...and highly recommended.
> If you only listen on a small, inexpensive audio system, soundbar, or earbuds..., you probably won't be able to notice a big improvement. The speakers simply don't produce fine detailed sound, so you don't need such Hi-Rez recordings.
> 
> Many Hi-Rez listeners just listen in 2-channel Stereo. There are various reasons for this...preference, limited space, etc...
> 
> I love the 3-dimensional audio experience multichannel gives recordings. The music naturally blooms and fills my room similar to what I hear in a concert hall or cathedral. Of course my room isn't exactly the same these wonderful venues. But, multichannel surround sound gets the closest to this IMHO.
> 
> I hope I didn't ramble on too much and my explanation helps. :tiphat:


Thank you for that, I do understand your whole reply.
However....I do not see a answer on my question about the performers / orcetra's etc.
If you take a look at my second post about the deals at Presto.
I saw Carmen by Bernstein.( Use to be on D.G)
A far as people I know from working in L.P - CD shops it was hardly sold then. People didn't like it.
I do have it on Vinyl and love it but I am not in a hurry to buy that item just because it's on that system.
I mean the Decca/ Carmen/ Solti sounds fine to me, like both Karajan recordings for that matter on RCA and GD

As for good listening, I recently both Evegeny Sudbin playing Scarlatti on BIS SACD and that is out of this world.

I posted my turntable in the hi-fi section ( can't find the pic on my p.c that quick)


----------



## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Are you wondering about the particular recordings being discussed, or about the love of Multichannel and High Resolution recordings in general?


See my answer to Biwa :tiphat:


----------



## Luukas

My amplifier contains Dolby Pro Logic surround decoder. This means that it separates two-channel information into five channels. Of course the result isn't as realistic as with Super Audio CDs or other hi-resolution formats. But mostly it works surprisingly well. Do you have any experiences with this technology?


----------



## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Thank you for that, I do understand your whole reply.
> However....I do not see a answer on my question about the performers / orcetra's etc.
> If you take a look at my second post about the deals at Presto.
> I saw Carmen by Bernstein.( Use to be on D.G)
> A far as people I know from working in L.P - CD shops it was hardly sold then. People didn't like it.
> I do have it on Vinyl and love it but I am not in a hurry to buy that item just because it's on that system.
> I mean the Decca/ Carmen/ Solti sounds fine to me, like both Karajan recordings for that matter on RCA and GD
> 
> As for good listening, I recently both Evegeny Sudbin playing Scarlatti on BIS SACD and that is out of this world.
> 
> I posted my turntable in the hi-fi section ( can't find the pic on my p.c that quick)


So, you're saying we should disregard recordings just because they didn't sell well or some people didn't like them.

Now, them's fightin words, partner.  LOL!

Sure, I agree that not every one of these Quad recordings is a "Great Recording of the Last Century". But, I could easily say the same thing of hundreds...thousands of recordings on CDs.

What's worse with the situation on CD, though, is that music labels keep reissuing mediocre recordings that are often already available. Time and again I have read record reviews of reissues in which the reviewer complains that a certain reissued recording is NOT a conductor or pianist's best performance of a certain piece...and they wish a different performance would be released. Some 2-channel stereo SACDs are even guilty of this. So, I don't understand why you are bothered by a handful of Quad recordings.

Now, many of the Quad recordings that we are discussing on this thread have NEVER been released as a Quadraphonic 4-channel recording. So, this is the FIRST time these recordings are being heard as they were meant to be heard. There is this historical aspect to consider. This is the first time the hard work of the people involved with these Quad recordings is being made available.

You may say the sound quality might not help a performance, but I would point out that the Penguin Guide (which you like to quote) was full of praise for the Quad version of Haitink's Mahler 8th. The 2-channel stereo version had been available for a long time and had been given a poor review by them. But, the Quad SACD release completely changed their opinion of this recording for the better.

So, please don't casually cast these Quad treasures in the dustbin. 

Btw, I completely agree with you about Sudbin's recordings on BIS SACDs. 
They truly are out of this world! :cheers:


----------



## Pugg

Biwa said:


> So, you're saying we should disregard recordings just because they didn't sell well or some people didn't like them.
> 
> Now, them's fightin words, partner.  LOL!
> 
> Sure, I agree that not every one of these Quad recordings is a "Great Recording of the Last Century". But, I could easily say the same thing of hundreds...thousands of recordings on CDs.
> 
> What's worse with the situation on CD, though, is that music labels keep reissuing mediocre recordings that are often already available. Time and again I have read record reviews of reissues in which the reviewer complains that a certain reissued recording is NOT a conductor or pianist's best performance of a certain piece...and they wish a different performance would be released. Some 2-channel stereo SACDs are even guilty of this. I don't understand why you are bothered by a handful of Quad recordings.
> 
> Now, many of the Quad recordings that we are discussing on this thread have NEVER been released as a Quadraphonic 4-channel recording. So, this is the FIRST time these recordings are being heard as they were meant to be heard. There is this historical aspect to consider. This is the first time the hard work of the people involved with these Quad recordings is being made available.
> 
> You may say the sound quality might not help a performance, but I would point out that the Penguin Guide (which you like to quote) was full of praise for the Quad version of Haitink's Mahler 8th. The 2-channel stereo version had been available for a long time and had been given a poor review by them. But, the Quad SACD release completely changed their opinion of this recording for the better.
> 
> So, please don't casually cast these Quad treasures in the dustbin.
> 
> Btw, I completely agree with you about Sudbin's recordings on BIS SACDs.
> They truly are out of this world! :cheers:


Now I do understand the whole point. 
Thanks you very much, appreciate you're reply :tiphat:


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## Triplets

Sudbins SACDs are excellent. The only one I don't like is The Scriabin disc, and that is because I don't care for the Composer.
Sound quality can truly elevate a recording. Pentatone's Brahms series with Janowski would probably rank somewhere in the top 30 recorded cycles if it wasn't so stunningly recorded. It sounds so beautifully natural and Concert Hall like that for me it is my 3rd favorite (behind Sanderling and Klemperer). We could say the same for Vanska Beethoven cycle on BIS.
Of greater interest to me is whether the improvement in these recordings is due to the DSD processing, the use of multichannel, or if both factors are important.


----------



## Luukas

Triplets, Abravanel's Brahms recordings with the Utah Symphony Orchestra are my current favorites. Silverline released the entire cycle on DVDA. Stunning surround sound with powerful musicianship. Gergiev's Brahms with the LSO (LSO Live) was a great disappointment. The sound quality was, even in multichannel DSD, muddy and unclear. Not recommended at all. 
But there will be another interesting cycle in the future: the first SACD (Leif Segerstam & Turku Philharmonic Orchestra) will be available soon.
Watch the trailer here:


----------



## Triplets

I have the Abravanel cycle on DVD A. It is a great, underrated Brahms Cycle, but if you haven't heard the Jankowski on Pentatone, you should. The Pittsburgh Symphony is a tremendous ensemble that Utah's mid 1960 ensemble just can't match and the Concert Hall sound is the best use of multichannel for realistically reproducing an Orchestral sound


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## Luukas

View attachment 84662

I just pre-ordered the Bizet/Marriner album at www.pentatonemusic.com. According to the short sound samples it will be an exciting addition to the "Remastered Classics". PENTATONE has already released "L'Arlésienne Suites" as a part of their "Dance Series". But it is also interesting to have this 4-channel recording on SACD.


----------



## Biwa

Triplets said:


> I have the Abravanel cycle on DVD A. It is a great, underrated Brahms Cycle, but if you haven't heard the Jankowski on Pentatone, you should. The Pittsburgh Symphony is a tremendous ensemble that Utah's mid 1960 ensemble just can't match and the Concert Hall sound is the best use of multichannel for realistically reproducing an Orchestral sound


You convinced me to go out and buy Janowski's cycle of Brahms's symphonies.

WOW!!

I am glad you did. I have only listened to disc one so far, but the surround sound is absolutely gorgeous. I had low expectations for the performance, but I am very pleased with it. I'll check out disc two (symphonies 2 & 3) tonight. And tomorrow I'll go out and see if I can't track down symphony no. 4. Some of my local record stores are having a sale this weekend.

Thanks so much for the tip! :tiphat:


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## Pugg

Just a tip / question :Is this something for you lot?










https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phase-Ster...N=B00LP298NC&linkCode=xm2&tag=bookbutleruk-21


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Just a tip / question :Is this something for you lot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phase-Ster...N=B00LP298NC&linkCode=xm2&tag=bookbutleruk-21


Thanks! Actually, I got that one last year, but still haven't played through all the discs. 

Phase 4 stereo was a kind of predecessor of Quadraphonic, but it is not 4-channel. 
AFAIK, these discs are not encoded for surround. Some of them pan out fairly well in Dolby PL-II, though.


----------



## Pugg

Biwa said:


> Thanks! Actually, I got that one last year, but still have played through all the discs.
> 
> Phase 4 stereo was a kind of predecessor of Quadraphonic, but it is not 4-channel.
> AFAIK, these discs are not encoded for surround. Some of them pan out fairly well in Dolby PL-II, though.


They sounds great though ( for me that is)


----------



## Luukas

View attachment 84680
View attachment 84681
View attachment 84682
View attachment 84683
View attachment 84684

Well, because we were talking before about Philips Classics I will show you once more some of their _potential_ quadraphonic recordings. I know that this will be perhaps useless to make list over here. But it should be quite easy for PENTATONE to get licenses for these. The management consists of ex-leaders of Philips Classics. Multi-channel specialist *Jean-Marie Geijsen* started his career as an engineer for Philips. In 1998 he founded his own recording studio, Polyhymnia. Together with *Dirk van Dijk* and others he has brought out almost 100 quadraphonic recordings of Philips. According to this year's releases there will be even more available...

1) MAHLER, GUSTAV: Symphony No. 9 in D major
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink (conductor)
- Recorded in June 1969 at the Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Produced by Jaap van Ginneken
2) MAHLER, GUSTAV: Symphony No. 7 in E minor "The Song of the Night"
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink (conductor)
- Recorded in December 1969 at the Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Produced by Jaap van Ginneken
"_PENTATONE has already released the Symphonies Nos. 5 & 8 of Mahler on Super Audio CD. It might be possible to enjoy these with 4-channel sound also. "Quadraphonic open reel tape (Q4)" was introduced in June 1969 by Vanguard Recording Society. These Mahler recordings were perhaps the first classical recordings with this new technology_".

3) MAHLER, GUSTAV: Das Lied von der Erde [The Song of the Earth]
Baker, King, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink (conductor)
- Recorded in September 1975 at the Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Produced by Volker Straus

4-7) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 & 6 + Finlandia & Tapiola, Op. 112 (the set of 4 albums)
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis conductor)
- Recorded between 1975-1979 at the Boston Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Produced by Vittorio Negri
"_As we all know this magnificent Sibelius cycle was originally recorded with quadraphonic tapes. Davis's polished interpretation is the clear first choice for many_".

8-10) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: Symphonies Nos. 1-3 & Manfred (the set of 3 discs)
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink (conductor)
- Recorded in 1979 at the Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Produced by Volker Straus
"_Although PENTATONE has recorded a Tchaikovsky cycle with Russian National Orchestra and Mikhail Pletnev this old lively set of Tchaikovsky's first three symphonies will be a must-purchase for music lovers globally. The tempo choices of Haitink are mostly faster than Pletnev's and the acoustics of the Concertgebouw is much more spacious than the dry studio in Moscow_".


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## Luukas

By the way, here is my You Tube channel: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC6LkcRHP9SVxiAgXrRiIpRg. My Piano Sonata in G major, Op. 17 was premiered on 15th May 2016. There is a video of the performance. I will upload more videos soon. Subscribe!


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> You convinced me to go out and buy Janowski's cycle of Brahms's symphonies.
> 
> WOW!!
> 
> I am glad you did. I have only listened to disc one so far, but the surround sound is absolutely gorgeous. I had low expectations for the performance, but I am very pleased with it. I'll check out disc two (symphonies 2 & 3) tonight. And tomorrow I'll go out and see if I can't track down symphony no. 4. Some of my local record stores are having a sale this weekend.
> 
> Thanks so much for the tip! :tiphat:


I am glad that you concur with me. I am increasingly enjoying the performances with repeated playings.
I wrote up thread that this is one instance where enhanced sonics might elevate a recording that might end up as an also ran in a crowded field to the front rank. There must be 150 at least recorded Brahms Symphony Cycles available at any given time. 
Most are going to have some merit. These are good, solid performances but imo the superb sonics elevate this set to somewhere near the top.
I also had the Masur/Leipzig cycle on Pentatone, and that is a more curious affair. I had this set on lp as well (not Quad, obviously) and while the balances on lp sound fairly standard, they seem somewhat skewed on the surround sound and two channel layer of the Pentatone. Perhaps this was an early Quad experimentation disc, mixed before they had mastered the technology, but i would avoid it, except as a curio. The performances are also solid but a bit stolid, lacking some of the graceful musicality of the Jankowski set.
And finally on SACD for Brahms, I have the Manze/Helsingborg set on cpo. 
The sonics on this set are better than the Masur but not on a par with Jankowski. The performances are HIPP which I think is a style that doesn't travel to a late Romantic like Brahms, but that is a discussion for another thread. So far a Brahms set in Surround sound, I'd stick with Jankowski


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Thanks! Actually, I got that one last year, but still haven't played through all the discs.
> 
> Phase 4 stereo was a kind of predecessor of Quadraphonic, but it is not 4-channel.
> AFAIK, these discs are not encoded for surround. Some of them pan out fairly well in Dolby PL-II, though.


 There were some articles that accompanied that Phase 4 retrospective release. It wasn't meant for multichannel, being started about 20 years prior to Quad. The emphasis was on a 'Hi-Fi' sound, with lots of multimiking to create an immediate, in your face presence. i had a few Phase 4 eps and while they wowed on the first couple of playings eventually their su0perficiality wears you out. There is no depth of soundstage, no hall ambience, just surface flash. Kind of like a Trump wife--meant to wow the onlookers and completely without depth or substance, But I digress.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> I am glad that you concur with me. I am increasingly enjoying the performances with repeated playings.
> I wrote up thread that this is one instance where enhanced sonics might elevate a recording that might end up as an also ran in a crowded field to the front rank. There must be 150 at least recorded Brahms Symphony Cycles available at any given time.
> Most are going to have some merit. These are good, solid performances but imo the superb sonics elevate this set to somewhere near the top.
> I also had the Masur/Leipzig cycle on Pentatone, and that is a more curious affair. I had this set on lp as well (not Quad, obviously) and while the balances on lp sound fairly standard, they seem somewhat skewed on the surround sound and two channel layer of the Pentatone. Perhaps this was an early Quad experimentation disc, mixed before they had mastered the technology, but i would avoid it, except as a curio. The performances are also solid but a bit stolid, lacking some of the graceful musicality of the Jankowski set.
> And finally on SACD for Brahms, I have the Manze/Helsingborg set on cpo.
> The sonics on this set are better than the Masur but not on a par with Jankowski. The performances are HIPP which I think is a style that doesn't travel to a late Romantic like Brahms, but that is a discussion for another thread. So far a Brahms set in Surround sound, I'd stick with Jankowski


I agree. Janowski and the Pittsburgh Symphony give well crafted, dramatic performances of these symphonies. I don't usually get fixated on one particular performance, conductor, orchestra, or for that matter the style of interpreting a piece. I am just as happy listening to Klemperer's Beethoven as I am with Paavo Järvi's HIPP recordings. Just give me a solid performance that's played with skill, commitment and FEELING and...most likely I'll find much to enjoy. But... beautiful, detailed, well balanced sonics can most definitely help. The sound of the Pittsburgh brass in the 4th movement of the 2nd symphony lifts you right out of your seat. :trp:

I'll have to dig out Bychkov's cycle. I don't remember Avie's recording sounding as amazing as PentaTone's. But, I do recall having a good impression of Bychkov's performances with the WDR.

HIPP & Brahms. Touchy subject, indeed! 
Well, I happen to like Rittner's Brahms piano concerto no.1 with the 1854 Erard piano.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> By the way, here is my You Tube channel: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC6LkcRHP9SVxiAgXrRiIpRg. My Piano Sonata in G major, Op. 17 was premiered on 15th May 2016. There is a video of the performance. I will upload more videos soon. Subscribe!


Congrats on the world premiere performance of your lovely sonata, Luukas. :clap:

Thanks for sharing your videos!


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## Biwa

If anyone is a rock/blues fan, this Bluray Audio/CD set has a wonderfully immersive surround mix.

the allman brothers band - idlewild south (Bluray Audio)


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## Luukas

View attachment 84734


Oh dear, how much I have enjoyed listening this album! How on earth music can be so beautiful!  At first Litton's slower-side tempi were a little shock for me. But gradually his method impressed me more and more and at the beginning of the finale I was totally forgot my first thoughs. 
The total time of the whole symphony is here 63'15 which is much slower than Gergiev's calculate (60'53) on LSO Live, for example. Still, the listening experience wasn't boring, rather upside down.
The highlights of this performance were the heartfelt, passionate third movement and carefully controlled finale.
In the third movement the tempo choice was simply idiomatic (15'15). The beautiful main theme of the first clarinet was sensitive and sweet. Compared to Gergiev's account this moment was quite muddy and unclear. The main theme of the finale (14'15) was also very touching and beautiful. Litton knew how to build the greatest intensity to the last pages. 
Excellent surround sound, too. I have never heard so warm multichannel recording as here! For me this SACD is surely the best way to enjoy the melodic richness of the composer. Outstanding, definitely.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 84734
> 
> 
> Oh dear, how much I have enjoyed listening this album! How on earth music can be so beautiful!  At first Litton's slower-side tempi were a little shock for me. But gradually his method impressed me more and more and at the beginning of the finale I was totally forgot my first thoughs.
> The total time of the whole symphony is here 63'15 which is much slower than Gergiev's calculate (60'53) on LSO Live, for example. Still, the listening experience wasn't boring, rather upside down.
> The highlights of this performance were the heartfelt, passionate third movement and carefully controlled finale.
> In the third movement the tempo choice was simply idiomatic (15'15). The beautiful main theme of the first clarinet was sensitive and sweet. Compared to Gergiev's account this moment was quite muddy and unclear. The main theme of the finale (14'15) was also very touching and beautiful. Litton knew how to build the greatest intensity to the last pages.
> Excellent surround sound, too. I have never heard so warm multichannel recording as here! For me this SACD is surely the best way to enjoy the melodic richness of the composer. Outstanding, definitely.


You should try Litton's Prokofiev 5th and his Copland discs, both on BIS 5.1. Bis makes excellent SACDs
Rach 2nd Symphony has just never won me over, except the great clarinet solo in the slow movement. However, I do think that it is a piece that would be enhanced by the warmth of Surround Sound. I', tempted.
Playing the Stokowski Nutcracker Suite on Pentatone now. Nice recording but it's way to fast. Wish that he used the same approximate tempos as he did in Fantasia. No dancers could keep this pace without dislocating a hip


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> You should try Litton's Prokofiev 5th and his Copland discs, both on BIS 5.1. Bis makes excellent SACDs
> Rach 2nd Symphony has just never won me over, except the great clarinet solo in the slow movement. However, I do think that it is a piece that would be enhanced by the warmth of Surround Sound. I', tempted.
> Playing the Stokowski Nutcracker Suite on Pentatone now. Nice recording but it's way to fast. Wish that he used the same approximate tempos as he did in Fantasia. Now dancers could keep this pace without dislocating a hip


BIS has released wonderful SACDs. My library contains 22 albums from the catalogue. I have heard the Prokofiev disc. It was stunning. But are they really DSD recordings? The booklet says that the original quality is 96/24. 
Stokowski has changed the orchestration. For example, there are strokes of timpani in "Waltz of the Flowers". Quite irritating, in my opinion. But delightful DSD transfer, indeed.


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## Biwa

Too fast for your bootie, eh? :lol: Well, Stokowski never fails to raise some eyebrows. 

If you want pleasing dance tempos, try Yamada's Russian Dances SACD. 
Beautiful performances and multichannel sound!


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> BIS has released wonderful SACDs. My library contains 22 albums from the catalogue. I have heard the Prokofiev disc. It was stunning. But are they really DSD recordings? The booklet says that the original quality is 96/24.
> Stokowski has changed the orchestration. For example, there are strokes of timpani in "Waltz of the Flowers". Quite irritating, in my opinion. But delightful DSD transfer, indeed.


BIS's early SACDs included many DSD recordings. Robert van Bahr has said he doesn't notice a big enough difference between DSD and 96/24 to justify the cost. BIS records all over the world in a variety of venues. Robert IS a huge fan of multichannel recordings.

This one has amazing sonics as well...









Ottorino Respighi: Fontane di Roma, Pini di Roma, Feste Romane

Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra
John Neschling (conductor)


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## Luukas

I have considered to purchase the following RQR album:

SAINT-SAËNS, CAMILLE: Symphony No. 3 in C minor "Organ" & MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: Pictures at an Exhibition (orchestrated by Maurice Ravel)
Daniel Chorzempa (organ), Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Edo de Waart (conductor)

I want to hear your comments about the recording. Is it really worth to spend 15€ for the disc? David Hurwitz gave 9/9 results in his review. I have heard the mentioned performance of Saint-Saëns just in stereo. The CD release was flat and uninteresting although it was later digitally remastered. It is good to have the Mussorgsky/Ravel on SACD.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I have considered to purchase the following RQR album:
> 
> SAINT-SAËNS, CAMILLE: Symphony No. 3 in C minor "Organ" & MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: Pictures at an Exhibition (orchestrated by Maurice Ravel)
> Daniel Chorzempa (organ), Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Edo de Waart (conductor)
> 
> I want to hear your comments about the recording. Is it really worth to spend 15€ for the disc? David Hurwitz gave 9/9 results in his review. I have heard the mentioned performance of Saint-Saëns just in stereo. The CD release was flat and uninteresting although it was later digitally remastered. It is good to have the Mussorgsky/Ravel on SACD.


Haven't heard it. I would point out that both pieces are well represented on SACD so you have a fair amount of choice


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> I have considered to purchase the following RQR album:
> 
> SAINT-SAËNS, CAMILLE: Symphony No. 3 in C minor "Organ" & MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: Pictures at an Exhibition (orchestrated by Maurice Ravel)
> Daniel Chorzempa (organ), Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Edo de Waart (conductor)
> 
> I want to hear your comments about the recording. Is it really worth to spend 15€ for the disc? David Hurwitz gave 9/9 results in his review. I have heard the mentioned performance of Saint-Saëns just in stereo. The CD release was flat and uninteresting although it was later digitally remastered. It is good to have the Mussorgsky/Ravel on SACD.


For that price?
Don't even think of NOT buying it, the recording is spectacular,seen the small hall it's been recorded in :tiphat:


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## Biwa

^Ditto^

I like it a lot.

But, I'm a bit worried that I steered you guys wrong with the Stokowski disc  , so here's another opinion... http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Pi...26&sr=8-6&keywords=SACD+waart#customerReviews


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## Luukas

Thanks for your help. I have also considered to purchase _Berlioz: Requiem/LSO/Davis_ RQR album at the same time with Saint-Saëns. It was recorded in 1969 at Westminster Cathedral, London.
Biwa, you told before that the album is magnificent. And a Grammy Winner it was, indeed. But I want to hear more analytical comments. How about the 4.0 surround sound? And offstage brass in "Tuba mirum", are they really impressive? Is there any tape hiss or other signs of age?
By the way, I bought Davis's late re-take album (LSO Live) few years ago. It is interesting that it was also recorded in London, this time at St. Paul's Cathedral. The surround sound wasn't here DSD and the dynamic range was quiet.


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## Luukas

I listened the Grieg/Leppard album http://www.pentatonemusic.com/rc-grieg-peer-gynt-suites-norwegian-dances-holberg-suite-eco-leppard once again. And what kind of miracles this new DSD remastering can bring for us! You can almost see how the player of the bass drum strikes his instrument! Or how the player of the triangle plays her own! To be honest the results are even more impressive than the DSD recordings today. :clap:


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I listened the Grieg/Leppard album http://www.pentatonemusic.com/rc-grieg-peer-gynt-suites-norwegian-dances-holberg-suite-eco-leppard once again. And what kind of miracles this new DSD remastering can bring for us! You can almost see how the player of the bass drum strikes his instrument! Or how the player of the triangle plays her own! To be honest the results are even more impressive than the DSD recordings today. :clap:


 I like the Leppard Grieg album, performances and sound.
RE: the Organ Symphony I would note that the new Pentatone Janowski SACD has gotten excellent reviews. Or there is Munch on the RCA SACDs reissue (3 channel only).
Biwa, couldn't open the link you gave. btw, you didn't recommend the Stokie disc, I decided to order it the same time as the Leppard


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## Luukas

Oh, it's a disappointing that the link doesn't work. 

Here is my multichannel playback system:
• Sony Blu-ray Disc/DVD player BDP-S4100
• Amplifier: Yamaha Natural Sound AV Receiver HTR-4065
• Speakers and subwoofer are designed and produced by Jamo (5.1 surround configuration)

It works very well. What is yours?


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## Triplets

I have three systems, one is two channel only the others are surround.
Main floor-Onkyo 5.1 receiver (I forget which model)
Sony SACD 9100 ES
Sony BDP
Speakers are silverline minuets and Silverline Center Sub is Paradigm
rears are Paradigm In walls

Basement
Pioneer Elite Receiver 5.1(again, not up on the model #) with pre amp out to a Parasound 5 Channel Power Amp (250 watts/ch)
Pioneer Elite Universal Player (no Blu RaY) and Sony BDP An Ancient B&W Sub
Front Speakers are Silverline Panatellas (Floor standers, now discontinued)
Center is Paradigm Center
Rears are Boston Acoustics
I also have last generation Apple TVs in both surround sound systems


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## Luukas

View attachment 84815


I just purchased this album at Amazon.com. My used copy - in very good condition - will arrive within two months. Very rare product today, I think. And I made a good deal because I paid 14,95$ only + international shipping costs. I found some reviews: http://www.classicalcdreview.com/dvdareviews.htm and http://www.musictap.net/Reviews/MartinonJeanRavelBoleroDVDA.html.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> View attachment 84815
> 
> 
> I just purchased this album at Amazon.com. My used copy - in very good condition - will arrive within two months. Very rare product today, I think. And I made a good deal because I paid 14,95$ only + international shipping costs. I found some reviews: http://www.classicalcdreview.com/dvdareviews.htm and http://www.musictap.net/Reviews/MartinonJeanRavelBoleroDVDA.html.


Where dose that have to come from...Outer Mongolia


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## Luukas

Pugg said:


> Where dose that have to come from...Outer Mongolia


No, it comes from United States, of course. It should be arrived between 23 Jun - Jul 26. About two months, then.


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Thanks for your help. I have also considered to purchase _Berlioz: Requiem/LSO/Davis_ RQR album at the same time with Saint-Saëns. It was recorded in 1969 at Westminster Cathedral, London.
> Biwa, you told before that the album is magnificent. And a Grammy Winner it was, indeed. But I want to hear more analytical comments. How about the 4.0 surround sound? And offstage brass in "Tuba mirum", are they really impressive? Is there any tape hiss or other signs of age?


Yes, the offstage brass is impressive. The surrounds are active and provide a wonderfully immersive experience. You won't be disappointed with the Tuba mirum. The recording show its age a little, but is generally very good. Tape hiss can be heard in the quieter moments.


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## Biwa

I have 3 systems.

5.1
Marantz AVR
OPPO BDP-95
Dali speakers
Denon subwoofer

5.0
Denon AVR
Denon Universal Player
B&W speakers

2.0
Sansui Amp
Technics LP
Sony MD recorder
Sony Cassette deck
Onkyo speakers


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## Luukas

Biwa said:


> Yes, the offstage brass is impressive. The surrounds are active and provide a wonderfully immersive experience. You won't be disappointed with the Tuba mirum. The recording show its age a little, but is generally very good. Tape hiss can be heard in the quieter moments.



View attachment 84823
,
View attachment 84824
,
View attachment 84825
,
View attachment 84826
,
View attachment 84827

Thanks. According to your words it will be an essential addition to my catalogue. I am going to purchase it soon. Anyway, it would be simply great to have other Berlioz/Davis Philips recordings on SACDs. My suggestions are:
- Les Troyens (Recorded in October 1969 at Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London, United Kingdom) Note: _There are offstage brass, as well_
- L'Enfance du Christ, Op.25 (Recorded in October 1976 at Watford Town Hall, London, United Kingdom)
- Lelio ou le retour à la vie, Op.14b (Recorded by analogy in July 1980 at Watford Town Hall, London, United Kingdom)
- Béatrice et Bénédict, H.138 (Recorded in December 1977 at Henry Wood Hall, London, United Kingdom)
- Harold en Italie, Op.16, H.68 (Recorded in May 1975 at Wembley Town Hall, London, United Kingdom)

Nice systems, Biwa!


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## Luukas

View attachment 84845

I decided to try this one. It is still on the way. My SACD library already contains one other recording of this massive work - three Grammy awards winner SFS and MTT. But as you can see this is a DVD-Audio. 
I have borrowed several times the original CD album from my local library. I liked it very much. As we know the disc was the last addition to Sir Simon Rattle's Mahler cycle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra. Later Emi has re-released the album several times, for example as a part of its "Masters" series. 
Do you have any experiences with this version? It is interesting that this DVD-Audio includes
5.1 DTS surround sound. Now I have collected the following DVD-Audio discs from the catalogue of Emi Classics: 
• Holst, Gustav: The Planets Op. 32, The Perfect Fool, Egdon Heath 
London Symphony Orchestra, André Previn (2001, Quadraphonic recording)
• Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 8 in E-flat major "Symphony of an Thousand"
City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, Sir Simon Rattle (2006, 5.1 surround sound)
• Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 10 in F-sharp major (Performing version by Deryck Cooke)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle (2001, 5.1 surround sound)
• Ravel, Maurice: Boléro, Daphnis and Chloe (complete) & La Valse
Orchestre de Paris, Jean Martinon (2001, Quadraphonic recording)

Note: The years indicates the release dates of the albums.


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## Biwa

For the past several years, I've been playing catch up on DVD-As. There are also lots of excellent DVD-As of other types of music: Rock, Pop, etc... that are worth checking out (if you're into other stuff, that is). In fact, other styles of music seem to be better represented on DVD-A than on SACD. For Classical, the majority of my surround recordings are on SACD.

Sorry about that link. It was just a review on AmazonUS , which can be a bit hit and miss.

I'll try again... http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-3-Pi...TF8&qid=1464130262&sr=8-4&keywords=SACD+waart


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## Luukas

No problem, I understand the situation.  The majority of my high-resolution recordings are on SACD, also. But during the past few months I've been more and more interested to DVD-A albums. Firstly there are many surround recordings that are only available on DVD-A, for example those Holst and Ravel recordings. Secondly the sound quality between DVD-A and SACD isn't very different. The DVD-A discs are usually presented in 24bit/96Hz (on surround). There might be also a layer for Dolby Digital surround sound. I want to collect the rest of Emi's DVD-A albums (Bach/Cleobury, Handel/Mackerras, Messiaen/Previn, Rachmaninov/Pappano, Strauss/Kempe & Walton/Previn) as well as the most interesting titles of Silverline Classics (Beethoven/Boult, Mahler Nos. 1 & 2/UtahSO/Abravanel, Strauss/OdenseSO & Tchaikovsky/Boult).

I have to tell you that I have never been excited about the other music styles beside classical. I know this might sound weird. But it is true: I have listened the music of Sibelius when I was a young boy! And I got my first orchestral score when I was five years old!  It was Beethoven's Ninth, by the way. Classical music is my real passion. I hope that I wasn't rude to you.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 84845
> 
> I decided to try this one. It is still on the way. My SACD library already contains one other recording of this massive work - three Grammy awards winner SFS and MTT. But as you can see this is a DVD-Audio.
> I have borrowed several times the original CD album from my local library. I liked it very much. As we know the disc was the last addition to Sir Simon Rattle's Mahler cycle with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra. Later Emi has re-released the album several times, for example as a part of its "Masters" series.
> Do you have any experiences with this version? It is interesting that this DVD-Audio includes
> 5.1 DTS surround sound. Now I have collected the following DVD-Audio discs from the catalogue of Emi Classics:
> • Holst, Gustav: The Planets Op. 32, The Perfect Fool, Egdon Heath
> London Symphony Orchestra, André Previn (2001, Quadraphonic recording)
> • Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 8 in E-flat major "Symphony of an Thousand"
> City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, Sir Simon Rattle (2006, 5.1 surround sound)
> • Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 10 in F-sharp major (Performing version by Deryck Cooke)
> Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle (2001, 5.1 surround sound)
> • Ravel, Maurice: Boléro, Daphnis and Chloe (complete) & La Valse
> Orchestre de Paris, Jean Martinon (2001, Quadraphonic recording)
> 
> Note: The years indicates the release dates of the albums.


I've never seen those DVD-A when I do a search. Where are you finding them?


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## Luukas

The all albums are still available to purchase at Amazon.com or Amazon.co.uk. Luckily the used Holst DV-A cost me just 7,99£ at the time when I bought it. The Mahler disc [Symphony No. 10] was more expensive: its price was about 25£. Both albums have been a great pleasure for me. Go there and continue your hunting! But you must be quick...


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## Luukas

View attachment 84862
View attachment 84863
View attachment 84864
View attachment 84865
View attachment 84866

My very first post here contained a passionate wish that PENTATONE should continue their "Remastered Classics" series also in 2017. Well, now the situation is little bit better. They try to get more licenses from Universal, at least. So, I decided to show my Philips wish list again - but this time with potential album covers. I designed them with Microsoft Word. I will upload my Deutsche Grammophon wish list soon.


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## Luukas

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## Luukas

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## Luukas

View attachment 84878
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## Pugg

You should send them your c.v Luukas, perhaps they offer you job


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## Luukas

View attachment 84883
View attachment 84884
View attachment 84885
View attachment 84886
View attachment 84887


Here are few albums from my Deutsche Grammophon wish list. I am so excited though I just watch the potential album covers! It can be just imagined how magnificent these recordings will be in their original forms! I chose the white rose to "Der Freischutz" because there is a beautiful white wreath in the opera. As Biwa said before, keep your fingers crossed!


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## Luukas

View attachment 84888

And the last but not the least...


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## Biwa

Can't see the attachment on your last post. It might need to be rebooted. 

No offense taken, Luukas. It's not rude to like Classical music. 
Most of my listening is probably Classical, too. But, I get restless. Sometimes I need some jazz, folk, country, blues, rock, pop, disco, punk, metal, ambient, world music... It all sounds so good in surround. 

I love your SACD cover designs for PentaTone. Yes, by all means send them those pics! 

The DVD-As you mention are very good. I don't have Rattle's Mahler 8, but the Walton/Previn and Strauss/Kempe are worth getting at a decent price. If one patiently shops around, these titles turn up at very reasonable prices. There are some Japanese SACDs of Kempe's Strauss. They sound excellent for 2-channel, but they are outrageously expensive.


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## Luukas

View attachment 84917
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Here is the missing album cover (Verdi: Rigoletto). I also made some corrections for Sibelius covers. I will send the folders to PENTATONE.


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## Luukas

I haven't send yet my pictures to PENTATONE because the project is still unfinished. But I will do it as soon as it is possible. Here are other 5 potential album covers for "Remastered Classics" (I made a new design for the Saint-Saens album)...
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## Luukas

More album covers for the Deutsche Grammophon reissues:
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By the way, Liszt's "A Faust Symphony" was a delightful new listening experience for me. Liszt knew how to parody hopelessly joyful melody of Faust in the last movement. We definitely need a multichannel recording.


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## Luukas

I just send the folders to PENTATONE. I'll let you know as soon as I receive the answer. :wave:


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## Triplets

It is getting expensive to hang here with you guys:lol: I just ordered about $100 of DVD Audios. Will report back with reviews after they arrive


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## Biwa

Oh dear! I hope that means you'll be getting a box full of DVD-As. 

Speaking of which, I'm listening to the DVD-A of Paul Simon - You're The One (Sorry Luukas...not Classical. )
This surround mix isn't outrageously good, but it works well with the music. It is very Quad (4-channel) sounding. Even if it's not his best material, the music still has plenty of Simon's ethnically inspired, mellow grooves. His voice is in good, natural form. If you're a fan of Paul Simon, keep an eye out for one at a decent price. It might not be everyday listening material, but I enjoy playing it every now and then.


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## Luukas

By the way, guys, I had a great honor to play under Hannu Lintu in October 2015. Jean Sibelius Orchestra - which musicians were just youngsters - performed in the concert hall of the Helsinki Music Centre. I played the second violin. Our program contained the following masterpieces: 
• Sibelius, Jean: Pohjola's Daughter, Op. 49
• Glazunov, Alexander: Violin Concerto in A minor, Op. 82 (soloist: Abel Puustinen)
• Brahms, Johannes: Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 68
The evening was surely an unforgettable experience. In the next day Nordea Bank Finland announced it has stopped to sponsor the orchestra. This terrible news was a great shock for me. JSO was founded in 1997, ten years ago. Jukka-Pekka Saraste was the chief conductor. He and the orchestra released a CD couple of years ago [My collection contains the album; there are normal 2-channel CD and 5.1 DVD-A]. We would be able to celebrate the 10th Anniversary Year of the orchestra in this year. But the future is still unclear. No money, no concert. The management tries to find sponsors but their all efforts have been useless, so far. The concert period of the last year was my first experience to be part of professional symphony orchestra. What a great disappointment, indeed.

Note: The mentioned album of the orchestra isn't available internationally.


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## Triplets

Wow that sounds like an emotional roller coaster. First the exhilaration of the Concert, then the bad news.
Saraste made a terrific recording of Sibelius 3 coupled with Belshazzar. I would have loved to have heard that in multichannel


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## Luukas

View attachment 85109

BBC Music Magazine praised the Tchaikovsky/Stokowski RQR album (above). So, it was worthy purchase, indeed!


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## Luukas

Do you have any experiences with Japanese record company Exton? I have considered to purchase the following SACDs soon:
• Mahler: The Song of the Earth, Sieghart
• Mahler: Symphony No. 6 "Tragic", Macal
• Mahler: Symphony No. 10 (performing version by Samale/Mazzuca), Sieghart
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 1 "Winter Dreams" & Romeo and Juliet, Lazarev
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 3 "Polish", Lazarev
The all albums includes 5-channel surround sound.


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## Triplets

No personal experiences. The reviews of their discs in the magazine Fanfare have not been favorable. They are quite expensive over here as well. I didn't realize that they issued multichannel discs.


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## Luukas

This was a surprise for me, too. But it is true: Exton has released over 50 multichannel recordings. Here is the review of Mahler's Symphony No. 10: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=5261#reviews. I don't care about the expensive prices because they proves in their own ways that my personal collection will be very valuable.


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## Biwa

Really sorry to hear about your orchestra's trouble, Luukas. Hope it all gets worked out for the best.

Exton's Hirez recordings have very good fidelity and dynamic range. They can sound beautiful. The only problem I have (other than the high price) is with their multichannel mix. The center channel is not utilized properly. It sounds like a stereo recording expanded to Quad. That's not always a bad thing, but with large works I prefer the center channel to play an integral role in the front soundstage. Exton seems to be better at Stereo. However, if you see a recording that interests you, I would still give it a try. Just be aware of this issue with the surround mix and don't pay an outrageous price.

Macal's Mahler 3 is good, as I remember. I haven't played it recently.
Waart's 2 SACDs of Wagner's overtures and preludes are very good, too. 
I also like Jaap van Zweden's Haydn Symphonies Nos. 31, 72, & 73, and 
Radek Baborak's Bruckner in Cathedral.


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## Luukas

Thanks for your message, Biwa. As I told before, I have a DV-A release of Mahler's "Symphony No. 10" (Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle). There the 5.1 surround mix was quite realistic although the centre channel was audible, throughout. The surround speakers were used for the ambience. Sometimes the right rear increased the sound of the third trombone. I'm curious to hear how the Exton recording differs from that. 
I want to tell you my opinions about Mahler's Tenth:
1) It is the most beautiful music in the world. The heartfelt "Adagio", the only movement which was completely finished by Mahler, shows the emotional pain of the soul in its horrible form. The great climax of the movement includes the most frightening dissonance-chord ever! And the finale is even more beautiful. After its dark introduction with muffled drum strokes we are able to hear the peaceful melody of the first flute. And the long wistful coda - after the chaotic outburst - gets me in tears, every time. How it is possible to write such a beautiful music? 
2) I don't have many personal experiences beside Deryck Cooke's performing version. I got the full score of Cooke's version (Faber Music) about one year ago as a present. Carpenter's performing version was full of his own ideas. The result was almost like a new work, not reconstruction. Mazzuca increased the loudest moments with a bass drum. Slightly different choice, I think. Hopefully PENTATONE will release a new SACD recording of Cooke's version in the future. We need more high-resolution albums of this touching work.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85177
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I think that PENTATONE should take these works to their consideration. Don't get me wrong: these album covers are just my suggestions. 
As I wrote in my previous post we definitely need a multichannel DSD recording of Mahler's Symphony No. 10. Why Cooke? Because it is the only definite completion of Mahler's last thoughts (this is just my opinion). And Super Audio CD is compatible with more systems than DV-A. 
There is just one 5-channel SACD of Strauss's "Don Quixote" (Staatskapelle Dresden, Fabio Luisi, Sony Classical). The album was recorded in Lukaskirche, Dresden. It was pleasant listening experience but the overall sound field was strictly unclear and distant. But this potential new recording - coupled with "Tod und Verklärung" - could be the second installment of Orozco-Estrada's Strauss bunch for PENTATONE. "Ein Heldenleben" and symphonic poem "Macbeth" will be available later in this year. These suggested albums could be available in 2018.


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## Triplets

There hasn't been much of a discussion here about the other main technology used for making multichannel, namely Blu Ray. So how do you guys feel about Blu Ray vs SACD, DVD-A, and multichannel downloads?


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> There hasn't been much of a discussion here about the other main technology used for making multichannel, namely Blu Ray. So how do you guys feel about Blu Ray vs SACD, DVD-A, and multichannel downloads?


I don't have personal experience about multichannel downloads. But I have heard some Bluray Audios from Naxos and LSO Live. They were impressive, indeed.
It is quite difficult to find difference between DVD-A and BD-A. But SACD is unquestionably much better format to offer surround sound. Compared to DVD-A or BD-A, DSD and DXD technologies brings much more details for the listener. The "movie formats" are produced mostly in 24bit/94Hz which is so-called HD quality. But DSD can theoretically reach 100,000 Hz. And SACD works also with CD player, DVD-A and BD-A requires their own players. You cannot listen your BD-A disc in the car, for example.
That's it. I have nothing else to say.


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## Biwa

I am flexible when it comes to physical media formats. As long as it's Hirez and done well, Bluray Audio / DVD Audio / SACD are all fine with me. SACDs are great because they play directly. Once you put them in, you don't need to fool around with all the onscreen selections. They also include a RBCD layer which can be played in ordinary CD players. So, I guess they are a bit easier to deal with. 

A lot of people I know prefer DVD-A / BD-A because they often include videos. They are also easier to rip than SACDs (so I'm told). And BD-As can hold a heck of a lot of information. Wagner's complete Ring cycle fits on just 1 BD-A. There is a lot of real estate on those babies! 

About DSD vs. 24/96 vs. DXD, I am not so picky. All of them sound amazing to my ears and... much much better than 16/44.1. I know some people feel DSD is warmer and more analogue-like. But, I've heard very natural sounding PCM. 2L's BD-As sound just as good as their SACDs ...IMHO. 

Multichannel Hirez Downloads, hmm?? 

As I might have mentioned before, I prefer physical media. It's nice to own the information that I spend my money on. I like the option of being able to resell (legally) any recordings that I don't need...just like an old book. And so far, there are plenty of Hirez discs available. I am not so sure about the future, though. Eventually physical media might disappear. In that case, I'll probably get set up for Hirez downloads or whatever the best option is. I know several people who doing the Hirez download thing. Some are already listening to DSD128 and DSD256 downloads, which obviously are higher resolution than ordinary DSD on physical media. So, downloads have the possibility of offering even better sound than SACDs, DVD-As, and BD-As.

I doubt there will be any new physical formats with DSD128, DSD256, or PCM 32/384 capability...at least none with wide market appeal. Bluray is most likely going to be the last major physical disc format. So, downloads/the Internet are probably where the future of Hirez music is heading.

Triplets, you seem to be enjoying Hirez downloads, right? Any advice or thoughts on DATs, etc...?


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## Luukas

Well, I don't know what to think about the answer of PENTATONE. I sent my potential album covers to them and I received the following message:

"_Thank you so much for your nice words! We appreciate your admiration for our music and Pentatone itself. *There will be much to come from us so please keep in touch*!_"

My message: "I have made about 50 potential album covers for the next few years. I hope that you will produce your future releases with these designs. They could be also a preliminary layouts of the albums. Strictly speaking these album covers are just my suggestions.
I have enjoyed very much to listen your recent releases. Especially the Tchaikovsky/Stokowski album was simply flawless in all respects! And congratulations on your "Label of the Year" announcement! I really appreciate your efforts with artists, archivists, designers and marketers!"

Note: The all potential album covers linked to the "Remastered Classics".


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## Luukas

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I decided to share my SACD library with you. These albums are the ones that I have collected so far. I want to hear your comments if I have done mistakes (poor recording quality, uninteresting performance etc.).


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## Luukas

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What SACDs (or DVD-Audios) are your recommendations? I'm preparing my future purchases.


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## Triplets

I don't have very many high rez downloads. I also prefer Physical Media. High Rez downloads can take up to 24 hours, in my experience, to actually download, and then are not immune for dropoouts. I gave up after obtaining about 4 of them. They sound impressive but Physical Media are not inferior and sooo much easier to deal with.


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## Triplets

I have many Blu Ray Audio discs, and some of them sound very impressive, but there is also some frustration lurking here in that 
many of them are not mastered about 24/48, although Blu Ray is clearly capable of handling more, and many Blu Ray discs are at higher frequency ranges. I prefer SACD, then DVD-A, and finally Blu Ray for multichannel listening.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Well, I don't know what to think about the answer of PENTATONE. I sent my potential album covers to them and I received the following message:
> 
> "_Thank you so much for your nice words! We appreciate your admiration for our music and Pentatone itself. *There will be much to come from us so please keep in touch*!_"
> 
> My message: "I have made about 50 potential album covers for the next few years. I hope that you will produce your future releases with these designs. They could be also a preliminary layouts of the albums. Strictly speaking these album covers are just my suggestions.
> I have enjoyed very much to listen your recent releases. Especially the Tchaikovsky/Stokowski album was simply flawless in all respects! And congratulations on your "Label of the Year" announcement! I really appreciate your efforts with artists, archivists, designers and marketers!"
> 
> Note: The all potential album covers linked to the "Remastered Classics".


I am sure that they are impressed by your devotion, but they have many factors to consider before making their releases. The royalty issues alone must be daunting with 40 year old recordings issued from labels that have been swallowed up in larger Corporate amalgamations.


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## Vaneyes

Just so y'all are clear...in talking about sound, rather than the merits of the readings.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 85232
> View attachment 85233
> View attachment 85234
> View attachment 85235
> 
> What SACDs (or DVD-Audios) are your recommendations? I'm preparing my future purchases.


 I have several ofthe Pentatones that you feature. As recordings they are are all excellent; i would be guided by your desire for repertory.
Personally, i would avoid the LSO Live label. Perhaps it is due to their auditorium, but their recordeing quality, multichannel or not, is 3rd rate, imo


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## Luukas

Yes, the surround sound of LSO Live isn't always impressive. If we have to concentrate to sound the final Sibelius cycle of Sir Colin Davis was awful. 4/5 rating for performance, 2,5/5 rating for sound. But LSO Live offers the works that are difficult to find on SACD, Beethoven's "Fidelio" and Weber's "Der Freischütz", for example. 
My own favorite SACD companies are now as follows:
1) PENTATONE (Superb sound quality with top-notch performances)
2) BIS (Excellent 24bit/96Hz surround sound)
3) CHANDOS (Thrilling performances with spacious 5-channel sound)
4) CHANNEL (Jared Sacks and others have produced impressive SACDs for us during the past years. Highly recommended!)
5) ONDINE (DSD (even DXD) multichannel captures the sound of the orchestra very well. The many releases have received 10/10 results at ClassicsToday.com.).


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## Luukas

View attachment 85239

Has anybody heard this on surround? David Hurwitz praised the original CD version and gave full 10/10 results for the album. But how about the Blu-ray Audio? Do you have any experiences with this presentation? Because this disc was produced in 24bit/96Hz HD quality, the sound would be much more spacious than on CD. 
It is also important to hear the offstage brass from rears. Are they recorded here as I explained before? I will buy this one if your experiences have been positives.

*) I will tell you something about Rattle's Mahler 8 (DVD-AUDIO) as soon as possible.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Yes, the surround sound of LSO Live isn't always impressive. If we have to concentrate to sound the final Sibelius cycle of Sir Colin Davis was awful. 4/5 rating for performance, 2,5/5 rating for sound. But LSO Live offers the works that are difficult to find on SACD, Beethoven's "Fidelio" and Weber's "Der Freischütz", for example.
> My own favorite SACD companies are now as follows:
> 1) PENTATONE (Superb sound quality with top-notch performances)
> 2) BIS (Excellent 24bit/96Hz surround sound)
> 3) CHANDOS (Thrilling performances with spacious 5-channel sound)
> 4) CHANNEL (Jared Sacks and others have produced impressive SACDs for us during the past years. Highly recommended!)
> 5) ONDINE (DSD (even DXD) multichannel captures the sound of the orchestra very well. The many releases have received 10/10 results at ClassicsToday.com.).


 I would rather have a great 2 channel recording than an awful multichannel one. In the case of LSO live, I think their 2 and Multichannel mixes are both quite bad. The Performers seem to enter some sort of sonic black hole in the Barbican and are imprisoned there, like Princess Leia on the Death Star, but no Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are there to free them.
I like your ranking system of multichannel. I don't have many Ondine recordings--perhaps two-so I haven't reached any conclusion. Channel tends to be limited by their choice of performers. The Baroque and other Early Music stuff is excellent, but I am not a fan of Ivan Fischer and the Budapest Orchestra. BIS may be my top choice. I was listening to some of Suzuki's Bach yesterday, great performances and a real feeling of being in a Church like space. It just doesn't get any better.


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> View attachment 85224
> View attachment 85225
> View attachment 85226
> View attachment 85227
> View attachment 85228
> 
> I decided to share my SACD library with you. These albums are the ones that I have collected so far. I want to hear your comments if I have done mistakes (poor recording quality, uninteresting performance etc.).


A little voice in my head keep asking......do you by it for the music s in the score/ artist or just they are on that label?


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## Luukas

Pugg said:


> A little voice in my head keep asking......do you by it for the music s in the score/ artist or just they are on that label?


I have collected these SACDs because most of them are unique in their own way. The Dvorak/Dohnanyi is quite rare stuff today I think as well as the Rachmaninov/Scherbakov on Naxos. On the other hand I have made my decisions according to the reviews. I purchased the Ravel/Seguin album because it won the BBC Music Magazine "Orchestral Finalist" award, for example. The newcomers (Dvorak/Storgårds, Mahler/Lintu, Grieg/Leppard & Tchaikovsky/Stokowski) are other reasons for that. And of course I want to collect the interesting albums of the "Remastered Classics" series, even those that are still in preparation. I don't care about chamber music. Operas, sacred works and orchestral works are my favorites. 
I hope that this was the right answer!


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## Luukas

The Ravel/Martinon DVD-A arrived today. The condition of the product was like new although it was described "very good". I have listened just "La Valse" and my first impression was very positive: colorful performance with realistic 3-dimensional quadraphonic sound. Warner Classics has also a big potential to rerelease more 4-channel recordings from its archives. But they don't want to do it. How strange... But this Ravel album is highly recommended! Buy it soon before the all copies are out of stock!


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> A little voice in my head keep asking......do you by it for the music s in the score/ artist or just they are on that label?


I don't think that there is any shame in admitting that I buy them because they are multichannel. Most basic repertoire items have been recorded dozens of times. What would make a recording stand out? Virtually all recordings feature good Orchestras, Conductors and Soloists. An enhanced recording technology can make a perfectly good recording not get lost in the shuffle. For example, I cited the Jankowski/Pittsburgh Brahms cycle earlier. Very good interpretations and Orchestral playing that may get lost along the other 200 Brahms cycles available were it not so spectacularly recorded. Or closer to your heart, Pugg, Jaap Van Zweiden has been recording Bruckner and Mahler in multichannel, and probably selling more in a crowded field for those 2 Composers than he would in 2 channel


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> I don't think that there is any shame in admitting that I buy them because they are multichannel. Most basic repertoire items have been recorded dozens of times. What would make a recording stand out? Virtually all recordings feature good Orchestras, Conductors and Soloists. An enhanced recording technology can make a perfectly good recording not get lost in the shuffle. For example, I cited the Jankowski/Pittsburgh Brahms cycle earlier. Very good interpretations and Orchestral playing that may get lost along the other 200 Brahms cycles available were it not so spectacularly recorded. Or closer to your heart, Pugg, Jaap Van Zweeden has been recording Bruckner and Mahler in multichannel, and probably selling more in a crowded field for those 2 Composers than he would in 2 channel


I ask my supplier and he says that he wood rather have the "normal" release.(his words) 
You may notice that I also buy this recording but I swear with the hand on my heart that's always about the music.
Another example; the Sudbin, Scarlatti sonatas now out in normal format, selling three time more then the one I have.
But ........ please as I said before,_ go for it._ 
Along as your not restrict yourself.


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## Biwa

*Who's* restricting themselves?

I'm listening to everything.

Oh yeah! Definitely the music!

...and lots of it in Hirez multichannel. Keep it coming! :clap:


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## Luukas

I'm still waiting for your comments about Mahler/Wit Blu-ray Audio. 
Klaus Heymann - the founder of Naxos - told: "When we released this recording a few years ago, many critics rated it as among the best performances of the work ever. At the time, the sound of the recording was also highly praised. Now this outstanding performance is available on one Blu-Ray disc in state-of-the-art high-resolution sound and with extra-wide dynamics. This is a unique opportunity to demonstrate and experience the benefits of the Blu-Ray audio format." 
And how about this one?
View attachment 85266

How does that sound on surround? David Hurwitz recommended the original CD release http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-5888/. R.B.E. wrote at classicalcdreview.com: "There is more clarity in the massed choral sound, a better sense of space, and the soloists seem to be positioned more exactly. It isn't stated if this actually was recorded for multi-channel; I suspect that it was not. How effective it would have been if extra brass at the conclusion of each of the two movements could have come from the rear. I remember several live performances of this symphony and how electrifying it was to hear the extra brass in the back-a great opportunity missed by the engineers. On screen during the music there are only two bucolic photographs, one for each movement. We also have a chapter with a series of photographs of Chailly, and a discography of some of his recordings, with short musical excerpts as well. This is a sonically impressive issue, with its huge masses of sound and thundering bass".

I also need your thoughts before I'll place my order.


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## Biwa

I don't have that BD-A of Wit's Mahler 8. It's on my wishlist now! Thanks! I have 2 SACDs of M8... Haitink and Stenz. Haitink is self-recommending. I like Stenz's "back to the score" approach and Oehms's surround recording is fabulous! 

Naxos's DVD-As and BD-A are generally good. They are usually generous with the use of the surrounds. Their Rossini overture BD-A is pretty immersive with good fidelity. The performance isn't quite as 'perfectly polished' as some, but it's full of high spirits and lovely playing. I have and like Wit's Janáček BD-A.


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## Triplets

I do have the Witt Mahler 8. I have to admit that the 8th is the one Mahler Symphony that just has never clicked for me.
It sounds spectacular, with a wide and deep soundstage . I wouldn't hesitate, if you like the work.


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## Triplets

My stash of DVD Audios and Blu Rays arrived yesterday. I listened to a pair of discs on the Tacet label. The first was Schubert's Octet, the Second was Mozart's Grand Partita.
Tacet makes no bones about placing the listener ear in the middle of the ensemble. Instead of using the rears as ambience channels, each speaker is allocated different instruments. In theory, this is all wrong, an unnatural perspective, etc. in practice, I found it absolutely thrilling and surprisingly natural sounding. I didn't listen to a disc of Haydn Quartets yet, but so far, I am very impressed


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## Luukas

Tacet did the same thing with its orchestral recordings. Did you purchase other DVD-A discs, Triplets?


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## Biwa

Thrilling, indeed!!! TACET's surround DVD-As and BD-As are simply amazing. The only other label that regularly does such fully immersive recordings is the Norwegian label 2L. PentaTone and others occasionally produce them, though. I know some people don't understand and think such recordings are unnatural from a concert perspective. But...many composers composed music in their head. They didn't specify that a piece had to be performed in such and such a venue and in such and such a seating arrangement. Performances have simply been adapted to the situation of the time. A lot of Classical music has a timeless, abstract quality that is free from such restraints. Certainly the works of Bach and others can be liberated from any mundane physical limitations...such as seating arrangement.


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## Luukas

I found this review at classicalcdreview.com. It seems now that Wit's recording of Mahler's Eight is worth-hearing experience: 
"Naxos continues their admirable series of Blue Ray Audio releases with this trio.* This format offers the highest quality audio one can experience today; On the TV monitor you will see identification of tracks/repertory, and, if you chose, texts. The block buster here is Mahler's massive Symphony of a Thousand. The recording is not new; it was made June 1-6, 2005 in Warsaw's Philharmonic Concert Hall and it is obvious at the time Naxos was looking ahead to a multi-channel issue. The sense of space is extraordinary; the listener is right in the middle of the performers. Soloists are well-balanced, clear and not too prominent providing a very natural concert hall effect. I doubt the number of performers approached what Mahler wanted, but it sounds as if they are all there, and that's what counts. Separate brass choirs are well defined, and it is stunning to hear the blazing brass from the rear. And the performance itself is among the best ever of this mammoth work, well-paced by Wit (whose neglect by major record companies is inexcusable—fortunately Naxos recognizes his merit and used him often). All of the soloists are first-rate, chorus are excellent, and the Polish orchestra is in top form".
*) The mentioned trio contained two Chopin BD-A albums with Nebolsin + this one.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Thrilling, indeed!!! TACET's surround DVD-As and BD-As are simply amazing. The only other label that regularly does such fully immersive recordings is the Norwegian label 2L. PentaTone and others occasionally produce them, though. I know some people don't understand and think such recordings are unnatural from a concert perspective. But...many composers composed music in their head. They didn't specify that a piece had to be performed in such and such a venue and in such and such a seating arrangement. Performances have simply been adapted to the situation of the time. A lot of Classical music has a timeless, abstract quality that is free from such restraints. Certainly the works of Bach and others can be liberated from any mundane physical limitations...such as seating arrangement.


Excellent points. These have caused me to rethink all of my ideas about multichannel .


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Tacet did the same thing with its orchestral recordings. Did you purchase other DVD-A discs, Triplets?


Some purchases that were advertised as DVD A turned out to be Blu Ray even SACD ! Fortunately I can manage all the formats but that is a cause of annoyance. Currently listening to Adagio of Haydn's Emperor Quartet


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## Biwa

The Auryn Quartet give superb performances of Haydn's masterpieces for the genre. Their performances of Beethoven, Schubert, and Brahms's chamber works are also wonderful. They have become one of my favorite ensembles. We are so fortune to have them in such amazing surround sound.

Btw, another label that produces some immersive surround BD-As is Sono Luminus. Zoforbit: A Space Odyssey is fantastic!

http://www.audaud.com/zoforbit-a-sp...chanics-david-lang-gravity-zofo-sono-luminus/


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## Luukas

Hmmm, it is quite interesting fact that Karajan never did 4-channel recordings for Deutsche Grammophon. But with Emi Classics he made many quad productions. One of these was Strauss's "Don Quixote" with Mstislav Rostropovich. According to my knowledge it has never been released in that form. 
But Karajan was excited about this new innovation, right? Before his conducting career he wanted to be a recording engineer. Of course it is always possible to make a new 5-channel surround sound mix from the original stereo analogue tapes. I guess DG did this thing when they released Mozart's "Requiem" about ten years ago.
What do you think?


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## Luukas

Has anyone listened Naxos's BD-A album of Brahms's "Requiem" (Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra, Antoni Wit)? Audiophile Audition ranked the disc as "a multichannel recording of the month". I have considered to purchase it at the same time with Mahler's Symphony No. 8.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Hmmm, it is quite interesting fact that Karajan never did 4-channel recordings for Deutsche Grammophon. But with Emi Classics he made many quad productions. One of these was Strauss's "Don Quixote" with Mstislav Rostropovich. According to my knowledge it has never been released in that form.
> But Karajan was excited about this new innovation, right? Before his conducting career he wanted to be a recording engineer. Of course it is always possible to make a new 5-channel surround sound mix from the original stereo analogue tapes. I guess DG did this thing when they released Mozart's "Requiem" about ten years ago.
> 
> What do you think?


 It is curious that von K didn't record in quad, as he embraced recording technologies and was known for actively controlling the mixes. I don't think DG embraced the technology to the same extent other labels did.
There are many multichanel mixes of the Karajan 1963 Beethoven set, in SACD and Blu Ray. I have Blu Ray Audio mixes of his Mahler 5 and Beethoven 9 from his 1970s cycle. In general these mixes sound fantastic , but not necessarily because they are in multichannel, but because of the high rez of the remasters.
Regarding the Naxos Brahms Requiem, I wasn't aware that it existed until I read your post. I think that piece would benefit from a multi channel recording.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85352
View attachment 85353
View attachment 85354

In the future Naxos should re-release this fine Sibelius collection on three BD-A albums. I have made potential album covers for these reissues.
Recording qualities of the original CD releases were highly praised. BBC Music Magazine gave five stars for the second disc of the bunch (Belshazzar's Feast). The reviewer wrote: "The lesser pieces here are all attractive... Segerstam has become one of the very finest Sibelius conductors, and his Turku orchestra rightly plays as if these were all major works, making this highly recommendable." The fourth disc (Jedermann) received a nice review at Gramophone: "Segerstam's often daringly spacious conception absorbingly complements Vänskä's splendid Lahti accont - die hard Sibelians will, I fancy, want to have both - while Turku PO member Mikaela Palmu responds with big-hearted dedication in the lovely Two Serious Melodies for violin and orchestra."
The all albums were recorded with wide spacious reverberation, indeed. On lossless 96k-Hz/24-bit surround sound this all could be very attractive listening experience.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85359

Naxos should also take this potential BD-A album to their consideration.


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## Biwa

Harry Potter was on TV tonight. You know, I still haven't seen how that story ends. LOL! I got lost along the way somewhere. 

So, these Naxos re-issues that you're talking about... Were they already released in Hirez MCH or just on CD? The Sibelius looks interesting. I haven't heard those performances and I'm always interested in beautiful performances of his orchestral works, especially in equally beautiful sound.









Speaking of Naxos, today I picked up John Corigliano: Symphony No. 3 "Circus Maximus", Gazebo Dances by the University of Texas Wind Ensemble and Jerry Jun. Playful and powerful performances. Very immersive, discrete use of the surrounds.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=531739


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## Luukas

Naxos has already released those just on CD and I'm not sure if they were originally recorded with surround sound. Segerstam's performances are really beautiful. His tempo choices are mostly peaceful and this decision creates a relaxed atmosphere. But this doesn't mean they are boring. 
By the way, I know how that Harry Potter story ends but I don't want to spoil it.  However, it would be simply great to have this thrilling soundtrack collection with hi-rez MCH sound.


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## Luukas

PENTATONE announced yesterday that the Bizet/Marriner RQR album has left their warehouse. It should arrive on Monday or Tuesday. After that I will insert some pictures here. There will be a short nice review also.


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## Biwa

Thanks for not spoiling the ending of HP. I'll get around to watching the climax in all its 'crazy' animated glory. LOL! :lol:

Getting back to PentaTone's remastered Quad SACDs, yesterday I also picked up...









Giuliani: Guitar concerto No. 1
Villa-Lobos: Guitar Concerto
Castelnuovo-Tedesco: Guitar Concerto No. 1

Narcisco Yepes, guitar 
English Chamber Orchestra
Luis Antonio Garcia Navarro

I'm just giving it a spin now. Lovely music making! Yepes gives beautifully nuanced performances. The orchestra's warm accompaniment has a nice wrap-around effect in Quad. The guitar is centered up front naturally. No guitars flying around the room. LOL!  Looking around on the Internet, I found that PentaTone released another Quad recording of Giuliani's 1st concerto performed by Pepe Romero. I guess I still have some catching up to do.


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## Biwa

While listening to Delos's Vivaldi 4 Seasons SACD, I was reading the inside cover. Strangely, they advertise a MCH DSD recording of Mahler's 10 Symphony performed by Andrew Litton & Dallas Sym Orch on SACD...catalog number DS 3295. But, I have only seen this recording in its RBCD version. And Delos's SACD Mahler 2 recording by Litton is also listed as MCH, when in fact the SACD is only 2-ch stereo. I did a search but couldn't find anything. Hmm...maybe these releases were changed due to economic factors. It's a pity Delos gave up its MCH DSD releases. The Vivaldi sounds good.


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## Luukas

Yes, these Mahler/Litton SACDs are only stereo. And the 10th Symphony was recorded using Carpenter's performing version, not Cooke. It is a disappointment, as well. Delos released the 2nd Symphony with its own multichannel reproduction technology for CDs - when you're listening it with the Dolby Pro Logic sound program you will hear it as it is MCH recording. I haven't heard it on that way. 
Thank you for your helpful guitar RQR review. I don't have this album yet. 

Now we are able to listen short sound samples of the newest addition to "Remastered Classics" (Beethoven: 'Spring' Sonata and Sonata no 1, Grumiaux (violin), Arrau (piano)). Click here: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/rc-beethoven-sonatas-for-piano-and-violin-nos-1-and-5-arrau-grumiaux


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## Biwa

Mercury Living Presence's original 3-channel recordings also sound marvelous on DSD SACDs.

This one from the early 1960s is an absolute delight!









Liszt: Hungarian Rhapsodies Nos. 1-6
Enesco: Romanian Rhapsody No. 1

London Symphony Orchestra
Antal Dorati (conductor)


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## Pugg

Biwa said:


> Mercury Living Presence's original 3-channel recordings also sound marvelous on DSD SACDs.
> 
> This one from the early 1960s is an absolute delight!
> 
> View attachment 85394
> 
> 
> Liszt: Hungarian Rhapsodies Nos. 1-6
> Enesco: Romanian Rhapsody No. 1
> 
> London Symphony Orchestra
> Antal Dorati (conductor)


These boxes are all a delight to have .:tiphat:


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> These boxes are all a delight to have .:tiphat:


The quantum leap in high fidelity that recording engineers made in the mid & late 1950s is astonishing, isn't it! I was just listening to Paul Paray Conducts Wagner (CD) the other day. It's another superb performance/recording. Some of these recordings have been released in their original 3-channel version on SACD. WOW! This really gives new meaning to the word 'Living'. Having said that... whether one listens in 3-channel or 2-channel, we certainly are lucky to have so many of these gems available for all of us to enjoy today. :tiphat:


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## Pugg

Biwa said:


> The quantum leap in high fidelity that recording engineers made in the mid & late 1950s is astonishing, isn't it! I was just listening to Paul Paray Conducts Wagner (CD) the other day. It's another superb performance/recording. Some of these recordings have been released in their original 3-channel version on SACD. WOW! This really gives new meaning to the word 'Living'. Having said that... whether one listens in 3-channel or 2-channel, we certainly are lucky to have so many of these gems available for all of us to enjoy today. :tiphat:


Amen to this. :cheers:


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> The quantum leap in high fidelity that recording engineers made in the mid & late 1950s is astonishing, isn't it! I was just listening to Paul Paray Conducts Wagner (CD) the other day. It's another superb performance/recording. Some of these recordings have been released in their original 3-channel version on SACD. WOW! This really gives new meaning to the word 'Living'. Having said that... whether one listens in 3-channel or 2-channel, we certainly are lucky to have so many of these gems available for all of us to enjoy today. :tiphat:


Wilma Cozart Fine, who was one half of the Mercury Recording Team, was left out of the loop when the SACD remixes were done, although she was involved in some of the RBCD remasterings before her death. Reportedly she didn't like the SACD remixes but imho I have to disagree with her. I have the Paray Symphonie Fantastique and Starker/Dorati Dvorak Concertos in SACD (and RBCD) and I think the SACD mixes are well done, true to the originals, and iluminating


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## Luukas

We were talking before about the 4-channel recordings of Emi Classics. Well, I will write here my own wish list. These following recordings should be available on MCH Super Audio CD in the future. For PENTATONE it would be quite complicated way to get the licenses and original quadraphonic tapes. But they should do it. On CD these colorful performances will never reach their full glory. As we know the 4.0 surround sound gives more realistic live concert experience for the listener. Though the all recordings here were recorded in studio. 

1) SHOSTAKOVICH, DMITRI: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 10 (2-disc set)
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)

2) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 & 6, Finlandia, King Christian II, Scénes historiques I, The Bard, The Dryad, Violin Concerto & 2 Serenades for violin and orchestra (Paavo Berglund: Complete Quadraphonic recordings for Emi Classics) (5-discs set)
Ida Haendel (violin), Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)

3) RIMSKY-KORSAKOV: Scheherazade
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Wilma Cozart Fine, who was one half of the Mercury Recording Team, was left out of the loop when the SACD remixes were done, although she was involved in some of the RBCD remasterings before her death. Reportedly she didn't like the SACD remixes but imho I have to disagree with her. I have the *Paray Symphonie Fantastique and Starker/Dorati Dvorak Concertos in SACD* (and RBCD) and I think the SACD mixes are well done, true to the originals, and iluminating


Interesting story about Wilma, but I agree with you. They did an excellent job with the DSD remastering. Those 2 Mercury Living Classic SACDs that you mentioned are terrific.

http://www.amazon.com/Balalaika-Fav...qid=1465216584&sr=8-1&keywords=SACD+balalaika

http://www.amazon.com/Balalaika-Fav...qid=1465216584&sr=8-1&keywords=SACD+balalaika

One of the hidden treasures of those SACDs is the Balalaika Favorites. It can still be purchased at very reasonable prices.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85472
View attachment 85473
View attachment 85474
View attachment 85470
View attachment 85471

The Bizet/Marriner RQR album arrived in the morning. I have listened the whole album once. My first findings are very positive. Read my review, please, and give feedback!

"_I had a great honor to play Serebrier's "Carmen Symphony" in the last summer under Mikk Murdvee. These two "Carmen Suites" on this disc contains as well the most popular tunes of the opera but with different orchestration. Bizet died before he could recognize the huge success of this sensuous opera. Neville Marriner and London Symphony Orchestra are in fine form for these highlights. Few years ago PENTATONE released the complete opera in their "Remastered Classics" series (Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein, Deutsche Grammophon). Compared to Bernstein, Marriner's tempo choices were slightly faster. The opening Prelude was flavored with lightness and effortless. The toreador's famous song included an assertive trumpet that made a great impression. L'Arlésienne Suites were performed very well, also. Marriner's faithful readings gave full justice for these masterpieces. LSO played here there and everywhere magnificently. 
The original 4.0 surround sound was masterfully produced by Vittorio Negri. There is a realistic concert hall presence because the rear speakers were used just for the ambience. Negri was a great master during the days of quadro alongside with Thomas Mowrey. Delightful album with informative booklet notes. Highly recommended, definitely._"

Acknowledgments
- Producer: Vittorio Negri
- Remastering: Polyhymnia International B.V.
- Liner Notes: Franz Steiger
- English translation: Fiona J. Stroker-Gale
- Design: Joost de Boo
- Product manager: Angelina Jambrekovic
"This album was recorded at Walthamstow Town Hall, London, United Kingdom in June 1978, and remastered in Baarn, The Netherlands in April 2016".


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## Biwa

Thanks for your review, Luukas! Glad to hear this Carmen release is a winner. 

I found a list of 1970 Q8 Quad releases from RCA:

RCA Red Seal Classical

CATALOG NUMBER	RELEASE DATE	ARTIST	TITLE
RQ8-1002	12/05/70	Cliburn/Kondrashin	Tchaikovsky's Concerto No. 1
RQ8-1010	12/05/70	Fiedler/Boston Pops	Music From Million Dollar Movies
RQ8-1027	12/05/70	Richard Rodgers	Victory At Sea, Vol. 1
RQ8-1047	12/05/70	Fiedler/Boston Pops	The Best Of
RQ8-1048	12/05/70	Leinsdorf/RCA Italiana Opera Orch. & Chorus	Puccini's Madama Butterfly (Highlights)
RQ8-1052	12/05/70	Julian Bream	Rodrigo's Concierto De Aranjuez
RQ8-1077	12/05/70	Leinsdorf/Rome Opera House	Puccini's La Boheme (Highlights)
RQ8-1110	12/05/70	Rubenstein/Ormandy	Chopin's Concerto No. 2 in F/Grand Fantasy On Polish Airs
RQ8-1112	12/05/70	Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra	Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 6
RQ8-1115	12/05/70	Buketoff/New Philarmonia Orch.	Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture
RQ8-1123	11/28/70	Ormandy/Philadelphia Orch.	Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsodies No. 1 & 2
RQ8-1137	12/05/70	Hans Wurman	The Moog Strikes Bach
RQ8-1141	12/05/70	Fiedler/Boston Pops	Bizet's Carmen Ballet
RQ8-1160	12/05/70	Fiedler/BSO	Dvorak's New World Symphony
RQ8-1162	xx/xx/70	Hans Wurman	Chopin A La Moog
RQ8-1164	11/28/70	Ozawa/Boston Symphony	Stravinsky's Firebird & Petrouchka
RQ8-1165	11/28/70	Rubenstein/Ormandy/Philadelphia Orch.	Saint-Saens: Concerto No. 2 / Falla: Gardens Of Spain
RQ8-1168	11/28/70	Reiner/Chicago Symphony	Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathaustra
RQ8-1170	11/28/70	Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra	Copland's Appalachian Spring Suite
RQ8-1198	11/28/70	Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra	Handel/Hallelujah!

I am not sure when the actual recordings took place and I wonder how a lot of these older titles were (re)mixed into Quad. But, it certainly would be interesting to listen to some of them.


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## Pugg

This is info( Japanese) from one of them:
http://www.kanqushi.com/boston-pops-orchestra-arthur-fiedler-敲击卡门-bizet-shchedrin-carmen-ballet-ape/

The highlights from the opera's are extracts from complete works. ( Leinsdorf)


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## Biwa

Thanks. Actually, these recordings haven't been released in Quad on SACD. That is only a list of old "Quad 8" recordings from 1970. Your link is to a Chinese (Hong Kong) website. I can't make out the details of that disc. But, it appears to be this one and thus not multichannel.

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/362


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## Luukas

Yes, this is interesting list, indeed. Perhaps Reiner's "Ein Heldenleben" was also recorded in quad. These recordings should be available on hybrid multichannel SACD. 
However, Mahler/Rattle DVD-A and Dvorák/Dohnanyi SACD arrived today. I'll listen them soon and write few words after that.


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## Biwa

Well, Fritz Reiner died in 1963. I am guessing several of those recordings come from the early 60s or even late 50s. I don't think they were recording in Quad that early. So, how did they make these Quad mixes? And more importantly how would a new DSD remastering sound?

Later RCA Quad recordings were actual Quad recordings, but it's interesting that RCA chose to remix these early (possibly 3-channel recordings) in Quad. Anyway, I'd still like to hear the results.


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## Luukas

This is just my opinion but I think that the surround channels were digitally added later. It might be quite easy to make a new 4-channel mix from the stereo sources and set the whole thing to DSD. You just have to decrease the rear speakers information to optimal 3-dimensional sound field. Silverline Classics has done this with Boult's 1950s Beethoven recordings. These albums are available on DualDisc or DVD-Audio. The new DSD remastering would sound slightly harsh, I guess.


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## Biwa

You're probably right. These quad versions are quite possibly
just up mixes. RCA might have been rushing to get lots of quad releases out. We'd probably get equal or better results
with pro logic II.


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## Luukas

Do you mean they destroy the old quad tapes? This would be a great disappointment.
I just listened the Mahler 8 DVD-A (City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, Rattle). The album was clearly up mixed for DTS 5.1 surround sound. Everything, even the offstage brass, could be heard from front speakers. But there were greater spacious feeling of the recording venue and the details were also more realistic. Recommended, but for fanatic Rattle fans and Emi DVD-A collectors only.
My results: 8/7


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## Biwa

I didn't mean to imply that they destroyed anything. I mean that those 1970 Quad 8 releases were not originally recorded in Quad. They were originally 2-ch or quite possibly 3-ch recordings. The rear channels could have been synthesized from the existing 3-track masters with early Quad technology. Some Quad done from early 3 and 4-track masters were successful. But... others, like the 1950s Boult on Silverline you mentioned, could sound mediocre. 

I just thought it was intriguing that they would release those 1950-60s recordings as Quad in 1970 and I am curious about the results.


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## Luukas

Biwa said:


> I didn't mean to imply that they destroyed anything. I mean that those 1970 Quad 8 releases were not originally recorded in Quad. They were originally 2-ch or quite possibly 3-ch recordings. The rear channels could have been synthesized from the existing 3-track masters with early Quad technology. Some Quad done from early 3 and 4-track masters were successful. But... others, like the 1950s Boult on Silverline you mentioned, could sound mediocre.
> 
> I just thought it was intriguing that they would release those 1950-60s recordings as Quad in 1970 and I am curious about the results.


Oh, now I understand. Thanks for the clarification!


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> We were talking before about the 4-channel recordings of Emi Classics. Well, I will write here my own wish list. These following recordings should be available on MCH Super Audio CD in the future. For PENTATONE it would be quite complicated way to get the licenses and original quadraphonic tapes. But they should do it. On CD these colorful performances will never reach their full glory. As we know the 4.0 surround sound gives more realistic live concert experience for the listener. Though the all recordings here were recorded in studio.
> 
> 1) SHOSTAKOVICH, DMITRI: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 10 (2-disc set)
> Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
> 
> 2) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 1-4 & 6, Finlandia, King Christian II, Scénes historiques I, The Bard, The Dryad, Violin Concerto & 2 Serenades for violin and orchestra (Paavo Berglund: Complete Quadraphonic recordings for Emi Classics) (5-discs set)
> Ida Haendel (violin), Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
> 
> 3) RIMSKY-KORSAKOV: Scheherazade
> London Philharmonic Orchestra, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)


I just bought that Bergland Sibelius cycle in 2 channel. It is superb, the only negative being the ratty sounding 3rd tier Orchestral playing


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## Triplets

Biwa's list of RCA recordings dates from the late 1950s. It sounds like those were prepared for 8 track, not multichannel.
Btw, Lukas, nice review.
Sudbins Scarlatti arrived yesterday along with 2 Tacet Blu Rays of chamber music. Reviews to follow


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## Luukas

Yeah, I like these Sibelius/Berglund recordings, too. Here are the most interesting quad releases from Warner:

1) BACH, JOHANN SEBASTIAN: Christmas Oratorio, S. 248 (Recorded in 1977)
Ameling, Baker, Tear, Fischer-Dieskau, Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Field, Choir of King's College, Cambridge, Sir Philip Ledger (conductor)
2) BARTOK, BELA: Concerto for Orchestra (Recorded in 1974)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
3) BEETHOVEN, LUDWIG VAN: Missa Solemnis, Op. 123 (Recorded in 1976)
Harper, Baker, Tear, Sotin, New Philharmonia Chorus, London Philharmonic Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini (conductor)
4) BEETHOVEN, LUDWIG VAN:Missa Solemnis, Op. 123 (Recorded in 1975)
Janowitz, Baltsa, Schreier, Van Dam, Vienna Singverein, Berlin Philharmonic, Karajan (conductor)
5) BEETHOVEN, LUDWIG VAN: The Five Piano Concertos (complete), Rondo a Capriccio in G, "Rage Over a Lost Penny", Op. 129; Bagatelle in a, "Fur Elise", G.173; Rondo in C, Op. 51, No. 1; 32 Variations in c, G.191
Weissenberg, Alexis (piano), Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
6) BEETHOVEN, LUDIWG VAN: Symphonies Nos. 1-9 (complete) & Overtures (Leonore No. 3, Egmont,
Fidelio & Coriolan) 
te Kanawa, Hamari, Burrows, Holl, London Symphony Chorus, London Symphony Orchestra, Eugen Jochum (conductor)
7) BELLINI, VINCENZO: I Capuleti e i Montecchi (Recorded in 1976)
Sills, Baker, Gedda, Lloyd, Herincx, John Alldis Choir, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Giuseppe Patane (conductor)
8) BERLIOZ, HECTOR: Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14 & Lelio, ou le retour à la vie [or the Return to Life], Op. 14b (Recorded in 1973 & 1975)
Topard, Gedda, Burles, Var Gorp, French National Radio Orchestra, Jean Martinon (conductor)
9) BERLIOZ, HECTOR: Requiem "Grande Messe des Morts", Op. 5 (Recorded in 1975)
Robert Tear (tenor), City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra & Chorus, Louis Fremaux (conductor)
10) BERLIOZ, HECTOR: Overtures (Les Corsaire, Op. 21; Beatrice et Benedict; Les Francs-juges, Op. 3; Benvenuto Cellini; Le Carnaval romain, Op. 9) (Recorded in 1976)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
11) BIZET, GEORGES: Les Pecheurs de perles (Recorded in 1979)
Cotrubas, Vanzo, Sarrabia, Soyer, Chorus & Orchestra of the Paris Opera, Georges Pretre (conductor)
12) BRAHMS, JOHANNES: Ein deutsches Requiem (A German Requiem), Op. 45; Variations on a Theme by Haydn, Op. 56a; Tragic Overture, Op. 81 (Recorded in 1976)
Tomowa-Sintow, Van Dam, Vienna Singverein, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
13) BRAHMS, JOHANNES: Complete Symphonies, Academic Festival Overture, Op. 80 & Tragic Overture, Op. 81 (Recorded in 1977)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Eugen Jochum (conductor)
14) BRAHMS, JOHANNES: Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 77 (Recorded in 1974)
Itzhak Perlman (violin), Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini (conductor)
15) BRITTEN, BENJAMIN: Passacaglia & Four Sea Interludes from "Peter Grimes"; Sinfonia de Requiem, Op. 20 (Recorded in 1974 & 1975)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
16) BRITTEN, BENJAMIN: Violin Concerto (+ WALTON, WILLIAM: Violin Concerto)
Ida Haendel (violin), Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
17) BRUCH, MAX: Violin Concerto No. 2 in D minor, Op. 44 & Scottish Fantasy, Op. 46 (Recorded in 1977)
Itzhak Perlman (violin), New Philharmonia Orchestra, Jesus Lopez-Cobos (conductor)
18) BRUCKNER, ANTON: Symphony No. 9 in D minor (Recorded in 1976)
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini (conductor)
19) CHERUBINI, LUIGI: Requiem in D minor for Male Chorus and Orchestra (Recorded in 1975)
Ambrosian Opera Singers, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
20) CHOPIN, FREDERIC: Music for Piano and Orchestra (Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2; Krakowiak (Grand Concert Rondo) Op. 14 & Grand Fantasy on Polish Airs, Op. 13) (Recorded in 1976)
Gary Ohlsson (piano), Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra, Jerzy Maksymiuk (conductor)
21) DELIUS, FREDERICK: Concerto for Violin; Concerto for Violin, Cello & Orchestra (Recorded in 1977)
Menuhin, Tortelier, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Meredith Davies (conductor)
22) DUTILLEUX, HENRI: Concerto for Cello & Orchestra "Tout un monde lointain" (+ LUTOSLAWSKI, WITOLD: Concerto for Cello & Orchestra) (Recorded in 1975)
Mstislav Rostropovich (cello), Orchestra de Paris, Serge Boudo & Witold Lutoslawski (conductors)
23) DVORAK, ANTONIN: Symphony No. 9 in E minor, Op. 95 "From the New World" (Recorded in 1976)
New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
24) DVORAK, ANTONIN: Concerto for Cello and Orchestra in B minor, Op. 104 (+ SAINT-SAENS, CAMILLE: Concerto for Cello and Orchestra in A minor, Op. 33) (Recorded in 1978)
Mstislav Rostropovich (cello), London Philharmonic Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini (conductor)
25) ELGAR, EDWARD: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2 (Recorded in 1975-76)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Adrian Boult (conductor)
26) ELGAR, EDWARD: Enigma Variations, Op. 36 (+ BRITTEN, BENJAMIN: The Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra, Op. 34)
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Charles Groves (conductor)
27) GLAZUNOV, ALEXANDER: The Seasons, Op. 67; Valses de Concert, Op. 47 & 51 (Recorded in 1978)
Philharmonia Orchestra, Yevgeny Svetlanov (conductor)
28) GRIEG, EDVARD: Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 16 & SCHUMANN, ROBERT: Piano Concerto in A minor,
Op. 54 (Recorded in 1975)
Sviatoslav Richter (piano), Monte Carlo Opera Orchestra, Lovro von Matacic (conductor)
29) HAYDN, JOSEPH: The Creation (oratorio) (Recorded in 1978)
Donath, Tear, Van Dam, Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra, Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos (conductor)
30) HUMPERDINCK, ENGELBERT: Hänsel und Gretel (complete opera) (Recorded in 1974)
Lindner, Hug, Gramatzsky, Prey, Moser, Kölner Kinderchor, Gurzenich-Orchester Köln, Heinz Wallberg (conductor)
31) LALO, EDOUARD: Symphonie espagnole for violin and orchestra, Op. 21 & Concerto for cello and orchestra in D minor (Recorded in 1976)
Yan Pascal Tortelier (violin), Paul Tortelier (cello), City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, Louis Fremaux (conductor)
32) LISZT, FRANZ: Hungarian Rhapsodies for orchestra Nos. 1-6 (complete); Rakoczy March; Hungarian Battle March; Mephisto Waltz No. 1 (Recorded in 1977 & 1978)
Philharmonia Hungarica & London Philharmonic Orchestra, Willi Boskovsky (conductor)
33) MAHLER, GUSTAV: Symphony No. 1 in D major "Titan" (Recorded in 1978)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Klaus Tennstedt (conductor)
34) MASSENET, JULES: Thais (Recorded in 1976)
Sills, Milnes, Gedda, John Alldis Choir, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Lorin Maazel (conductor)
35) MENDELSSOHN, FELIX: Symphony No. 3 in A minor "Scottish", Op. 56; Symphony No. 4 in A major "Italian", Op. 90 & "Calm Sea & Prosperous Voyage" Overture, Op. 27 (Recorded in 1976)
New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
36) MENDELSSOHN, FELIX: St. Paul (oratorio), Op. 36 (Recorded in 1977)
Donath, Schwarz, Hollweg, Fischer-Dieskau, Chorus of the Dusseldorf Musikverein, Dusseldorf Symphony, Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos (conductor)
37) MENDELSSOHN, FELIX: A Midsummer Night's Dream (complete incidental music) (Recorded in 1977)
Watson, Wallis, Finchley Children's Music Group, London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
38) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: The Magic Flute, K. 620 (Recorded in 1973)
Rothenberger, Moser, Fassbaender, Schreier, Berry, Moll, Orchestra & Chorus of the Bavarian State Opera, Wolfgang Sawallisch (conductor)
39) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Symphonies Nos. 25 in G minor, K. 183 & Symphony No. 29 in A major, K. 201 (Recorded in 1977)
New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
40) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Mass in C major, K.317, "Coronation"; Vesperae Solennes de Confessione in C major, K.339 (Recorded in 1977)
Moser, Hamari, Gedda, Fischer-Dieskau, Bavarian Radio Orchestra & Chorus, Eugen Jochum (conductor)
41) MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS: Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor, K.446 & Concerto No. 10 in E flat for Two Pianos, K.365 (Recorded in 1977)
Radu Lupu (piano), London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor & 2nd piano)
42) MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: Boris Godunov (original version) (Recorded in 1977)
Talvela, Gedda, Mroz, Polish Radio Chorus of Krakow, Polish National Radio Symphony, Jerzy Semkow (conductor)
43) MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: Songs & Dances of Death (orch. Shostakovich), Op. 45 (+ RIMSKY-KORSAKOV, NIKOLAI & TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: Arias) (Recorded in 1976-77 & 1979)
Galina Vishnevskaya (soprano), London Philharmonic Orchestra, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)
44) ORFF, CARL: Carmina Burana (Recorded in 1975)
Armstrong, English, Allen, London Symphony Chorus, London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
45) RACHMANINOV, SERGEI: Symphony No. 1 in D minor, Op. 13; The Isle of the Dead, Op. 29; Symphonic Dances, Op. 45 (Recorded in 1975 & 1976)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
46) RACHMANINOV, SERGEI: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Op. 43 (+ DOHNANYI, ERNST VON: Variations on a Nursery Song, Op. 25) (Recorded in 1976)
Christina Ortiz (piano), New Philharmonia Orchestra, Kazuhiro Koizumi (conductor)
47) RACHMANINOV, SERGEI: The Bells, Op. 35; Vocalise, Op. 34 (Recorded in 1976)
Armstrong, Tear, Shirley-Quirk, London Symphony Chorus, London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
48) RAVEL, MAURICE: Rapsodie espagnole, M.54; "Scheherazade" Overture; Ma Mere l'Oye; Valses nobles et sentimentales; Le Tombeau de Couperin; Pavane pour une infante defunte; Alborado del gracioso; Menuet Antique; Une barque sur l'ocean (Recorded in 1975)
Orchestre de Paris, Jean Martinon (conductor)
49) RAVEL, MAURICE: Piano Concerto in G major & Concerto in D for the Left Hand (Recorded in 1975)
Aldo Ciccolini (piano), Orchestre de Paris, Jean Martinon (conductor)
50) RIMSKY-KORSAKOV, NIKOLAI: Scheherazade, Op. 35 (Recorded in 1974)
Orchestre de Paris, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)
51) RIMSKY-KORSAKOV, NIKOLAI: Capriccio espagnole, Op. 34 (+ MUSSORGSKY, MODEST: A Night on the Bare Mountain (orch. Rimsky-Korsakov); BORODIN, ALEXANDER: In the Steppes of Central Asia & GLINKA, MIKHAIL: "Ruslan & Ludmila" Overture) (Recorded in 1978)
Orchestre de Paris, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)
52) ROSSINI, GIOACCHINO: The Barber of Seville (Recorded in 1975)
Milnes, Sills, Gedda, Capecchi, Barbieri, Raimondi, John Alldis Choir, London Symphony Orchestra, James Levine (conductor)
53) SAINT-SAENS, CAMILLE: Symphonies Nos. 1-3 (complete) & A major and "Roma" Symphonies (Recorded in 1972, 1974-1975)
Bernard Gavoty (organ), Orchestre National de l'ORTF, Jean Martinon (conductor)
54) SAINT-SAENS, CAMILLE: Introduction & Rondo Capriccioso, Op. 28; Havanaise for Violin and Orchestra, Op. 83 (+ CHAUSSON, ERNEST: Poeme for Violin and Orchestra & RAVEL, MAURICE: Tzigane for Violin and Orchestra) (Recorded in 1975)
Itzhak Perlman (violin), Orchestre de Paris, Jean Martinon (conductor)
55) SCHUBERT, FRANZ: Alfonso & Estrella, D.732 (complete opera) (Recorded in 1978)
Mathis, Schreier, Fischer-Dieskau, Prey, Adam, Rundfunkchor Berlin, Staatskapelle Berlin, Otmas
Suitner (conductor)
56) SCHUBERT, FRANZ: Symphonies Nos. 1-9 (complete); Incidental Music from "Rosamunde", Op. 26, D.797 (Recorded in 1976 & 1978)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
57) SCHUMANN, ROBERT: The Four Symphonies (complete); Hermann und Dorothea overture; The Bride of Messina overture (Recorded in 1977 & 1979)
Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
58) SHOSTAKOVICH, DMITRI: Symphony No. 4 in C minor, Op. 43 (Recorded in 1978)
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
59) SHOSTAKOVICH, DMITRI: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 10 (Recorded in 1976)
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
60) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 4 in A minor, Op. 63; Symphony No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 82; Finlandia, Op. 26; En Saga, Op. 9; The Swan of Tuonela (from Four Legends, Op. 22); Tapiola, Op. 112 (Recorded in 1976, 1980 & 1981)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
61) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Finlandia, Op. 26; The Swan of Tuonela (from Four Legends, Op. 22); Lemminkäinen's Return, Op. 22 / 4; King Christian II Suite, Op. 27 & Valse triste, Op. 44 (Recorded in 1972)
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
62) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 6 in D minor, Op. 104; Luonnotar, Op. 70 & Pohjola's Daughter, Op. 49 (Recorded in 1973)
Taru Valjakka (soprano), Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
63) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Violin Concerto in D minor, Op. 47; Two Serenades for violin and orchestra; Humoresque No. 5 in E-flat major for violin and orchestra (Recorded in 1976)
Ida Haendel (violin), Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
64) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 1 in E minor, Op. 39 & Scenes historiques I, Op. 25 (Recorded in 1974)
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
65) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphony No. 2 in D major, Op. 43 (Recorded in 1976)
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
66) SIBELIUS, JEAN: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4; The Bard, Op. 64 (Recorded in 1975 (Symphony No. 4), 1976 (The Bard) & 1977 (Symphony No. 3))
Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (conductor)
67) SIBELIUS, JEAN: The lighter music of Sibelius [Romance in C, Op. 42; Dance-Intermezzo, Op. 45, No. 2; Spring Song, Op. 16; The Dryad - Tone Picture for Orchestra, Op. 45, No. 1; Pan and Echo, Op. 53a; Andante Festivo for String Orchestra; Valse Romantique, Op. 62b; Canzonetta, Op. 62a; Suite Mignonne for two flutes and strings, Op. 98a & Suite Champetre for string orchestra, Op. 98b] (Recorded in 1976)
Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Charles Groves (conductor)
68) STRAUSS, RICHARD: Ein Heldenleben [A Hero's Life], Op. 40 (Recorded in 1975)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
69) STRAUSS, RICHARD: Don Quixote, Op. 35 (Recorded in 1976)
Mstislav Rostropovich (cello), Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
70) STRAUSS, RICHARD: Die schweigsame Frau (complete opera) (Recorded in 1979)
Adam, Burmeister, Scovotti, Schmidt, Haseleu, Dresden State Opera Chorus, Staatskapelle Dresden, Marek Janowski (conductor)
71) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYCIH: Sleeping Beauty, Op. 66 (Recorded in 1974)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
72) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: Swan Lake, Op. 20 (Recorded in 1976)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
73) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: 1812 Overture, Op. 49; Marche Slave, Op. 31; "Romeo and Juliet" fantasy-overture (Recorded in 1973)
London Symphony Orchestra, Andre Previn (conductor)
74) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: Symphonies Nos. 4-6 (Recorded in 1972)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
75) TCHAIKOVSKY, PETER ILYICH: The Six Symphonies (complete), Francesca da Rimini, Op. 32 & Manfred (symphonic poem), Op. 58 (Recorded in 1977)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)
76) VERDI, GIUSEPPE: Aida (Recorded in 1974)
Cossotto, Cappuccilli, Ghiaurov, Royal Opera Chorus, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
77) VERDI, GIUSEPPE: Nabucco (Recorded in 1978)
Scotto, Obraztsova, Manuguerra, Ghiaurov, Ambrosian Opera Chorus, Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
78) VERDI, GIUSEPPE: Macbeth (Recorded in 1976)
Milnes, Cossotto, Carreras, Raimondi, Ambrosian Opera Chorus, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
79) VERDI, GIUSEPPE: Un Ballo in maschera (Recorded in 1975)
Arroyo, Domingo, Cappuccilli, Cossotto, Grist, Chorus of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, New Philharmonia Orchestra, Riccardo Muti (conductor)
80) VERDI, GIUSEPPE: Il Trovatore (Recorded in 1978)
Price, Obraztsova, Bonisolli, Cappuccilli, Raimondi, Deutsche Opera Choir, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
81) VIVALDI, ANTONIO: The Four Seasons (Recorded in 1976)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Itzhak Perlman (violin & direction)
82) WAGNER, RICHARD: Rienzi (Recorded in 1976)
Kollo, Martin, Wennberg, Adam, Hillebrand, Schreier, Leipziger Rundfunkchor, Chor der Staatsoper Dresden, Staatskapelle Dresden, Heinrich Hollreiser (conductor)
83) WAGNER, RICHARD: The Rhinegold (in English) (Recorded in 1975)
Bailey, Belcourt, Stroud, English National Opera Orchestra, Reginald Goodall (conductor)
84) WAGNER, RICHARD: The Valkyrie (in English) (Recorded in 1976)
Hunter, Remedios, Bailey, English National Opera Orchestra, Reginald Goodall (conductor)
85) WEBER, CARL MARIA VON: Euryanthe (Recorded in 1974)
Norman, Hunter, Gedda, Krause, Dresden State Opera Chorus, Leipzig Radio Chorus, Staatskapelle
Dresden, Marek Janowski (conductor)

Source: www.surrounddiscography.com


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## Biwa

81) VIVALDI, ANTONIO: The Four Seasons (Recorded in 1976)
London Philharmonic Orchestra, Itzhak Perlman (violin & direction)

Now, this caught my eye.


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## Triplets

I own or have owned quite a few on that list. To clarify--there were actually Quad Mixes made of these listed recordings? Or did I misread and this is another potential "wish list"?


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## Luukas

No, this isn't a potential wish list. These recordings were originally engineered and mixed in quad but never released in that form. It would be very fascinating to hear them with 4-channel surround sound. Some of these are available on "Quadraphonic LP" discs. But for us SACD might work better than the old-fashioned vinyl.


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## Triplets

Do either of you know what the demand for multichannel is in the Far East vs US and Europe? When EMI made some SACD mixes of classic recordings a few years ago, such as the DuPre/Barbirolli Elgar Concerto, reportedly it was aimed at the Far East market, and not the U.K. Multichannel is a rare thing in the U.K. due partly to small dwellings. I don't think of Japanese or Chinese living spaces as being much larger but apparently the demand for them was much higher


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## Luukas

I think that SACD is nowadays quite popular way to listen classical music in Japan. Exton has released hundreds of Super Audio CDs during the past fifteen years. Warner Music Japan has reissued many classical recordings, some of them are newly remixed with 5-channel sound. For example, Sir Simon Rattle's acclaimed album of Holst's "The Planets" reached its revolutionary multichannel glory some years ago. And 2-channel SACDs are still a growing field in Japan. 
In my opinion, people don't have realized the advantages of SACD. As I said before this marvelous thing is a growing field, especially in US and Europe. The economical situation is erratic and most companies have decided to release normal CDs instead of multichannel SACD. It is strange. The costs of the manufacturing are more expensive with SACDs, of course. But the results are always much more impressive. Compared to previous generation we have better opportunities to enjoy multichannel sound. But why on earth their (Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, Philips, Warner Classics, Ondine, Telarc) majority releases are CDs only? My amplifier contains Dolby Pro Logic surround decoder but it is useless to compare this fake simulation to SACD. *I hope with my all heart that those companies will start a new period with multichannel Super Audio CD*! Stop this nonsense with CDs and release just SACDs, please! 
(I hope my previous outburst wasn't hurtful).


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## Biwa

Here's my take. The demand for multichannel audio isn't that big here in Japan, either. Actually, the demand for high-end 2-channel stereo equipment isn't doing all that well, either. Most young people here don't have any serious audio equipment...amps, big speakers, separate components, etc... They seem to prefer the convenience of portable music players and earbuds or sound bars. Some people (who actually have a TV) have a basic 5.1 home theater system in their living rooms, though.

In the medium to high-end market, 2-channel is more popular. This is probably due to the size of most apartments in Tokyo. But... outside of Tokyo, homes are more spacious. I have been to houses with nice audio systems including large floor speakers and some with 5.1 systems. I suppose age also has something to do with 2-channel being more popular. The older generation seems to be fixated on older recordings of Jazz and Classical from the 1950s and 60s. Several Japanese labels release a lot of 2-channel SACDs with remasterings of older recordings. Esoteric's SACDs are particularly popular here. (Personally, I really don't understand what all the fuss with that label is about, though.)

But, Hirez MCH isn't non-existent in Japan. Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz produce excellent audio equipment for surround. There are some fans of surround recordings on SACD, DVD, and Bluray. I often find reviews of surround recordings on the Internet. Quadraphonic recordings/systems have a long history here. Isao Tomita's music is respected and still popular here. (He just died recently. RIP.) He was a pioneer in 4.0 surround sound. 

I think the situation is similar in China and Korea. There has been a steady stream of SACDs by companies based in Hong Kong. These are mostly in stereo, though. 

Multichannel audio seems to have the biggest following in the North American market. But there too, downloading and the Internet seem to be taking over the music industry. The recent 'Vinyl' boom is very small and probably won't last very long. For Hipsters, it's just a trendy way to look cool. In Japan (and Germany I believe) physical media is popular. In general, however, sales of physical discs are steadily falling. I suppose there will still be a few boutique labels producing SACDs, CDs, and Vinyl for us diehards. But, Channel Classics, BIS and others are slowly but steadily moving away from discs.


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## Luukas

By the way, guys, I just purchased this rare full score of Tchaikovsky's "The Queen of Spades", Op. 68 (Dover Publications, 1999, 800 pages): 
View attachment 85572

It was a new product, not used. When I was a young boy I heard this opera at the first time. Since then it has been very important to me. Emotional profusion of the work is something very special. I can hardly wait to receive the score. 

I just ordered the Saint-Saens&Mussorgsky/Waart RQR album. How exciting... ClassicsToday gave 9/9, as I said before.


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## Biwa

That's a wonderful story of your childhood memories. Thanks for sharing it. And nice score with that... um...score! (Pun intended, actually. ) What recording do you recommend of The Queen of Spades?

I think you'll like the performance and surround mix of that Organ Symphony.









I was just listening to Charles Koechlin: Organ Works

Christian Schmitt (organ)

CPO have been doing such a tremendous job with their various organ recordings on MCH SACDs. The Koechlin is one of their finest. Beautifully meditative music!


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## Luukas

Well, I do have two recordings of the opera: Gergiev (Philips) and Rostropovich (DG). The first one was my personal introduction to the opera. It is still very fascinating but my current favorite is the second one, "Slava's" touching interpretation with the National Orchestra of France. There are also many sound effects, such as the echo-sound of the Countess's ghost.
Oh, and don't forget Mariss Jansons's thrilling live recording (BR Klassik)!
My top 3 recommendations are as follows:
1) Rostropovich
2) Jansons
3) Gergiev


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## Luukas

Do you have any experiences with Okko Kamu's Sibelius cycle (BIS)? I decided to purchase this acclaimed set (BBC Music Magazine: Orchestral Finalist) because Presto Classical offered it in a reduced price. It should arrive within a week. Three SACDs with slipcase and booklet. 
We are able to listen the rest of Vänskä/Minnesota Sibelius cycle soon: the last album will be available in Autumn. Lots of great Sibelius stuff, then! :lol:


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## KenOC

The Okko Kamu Sibelius cycle is quite good, and the sound is very very good. It's a real standout, especially for the symphonies through No. 4.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Well, I do have two recordings of the opera: Gergiev (Philips) and Rostropovich (DG). The first one was my personal introduction to the opera. It is still very fascinating but my current favorite is the second one, "Slava's" touching interpretation with the National Orchestra of France. There are also many sound effects, such as the echo-sound of the Countess's ghost.
> Oh, and don't forget Mariss Jansons's thrilling live recording (BR Klassik)!
> My top 3 recommendations are as follows:
> 1) Rostropovich
> 2) Jansons
> 3) Gergiev


Thanks, Luukas! They all look great! I keep an eye out for these. Rostropovich tops the list. But, recently I've come to appreciate Jansons more and more. Decisions... Decisions... LOL! 

Okko Kamu's Sibelius cycle is a must. Glad you could get it on sale. You'll love it.

Today I picked up a whole bunch of SACDs and DVD-As. I started out playing Stenhammar.... now it's onto...


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## Luukas

Few hours ago I picked up the Mozart/Brendel RQR album at www.pentatonemusic.com. 
View attachment 85604

According to the short sound samples it will be a delightful listening experience. 
The producer here was Eric Smith, quite unknown name for me. Eric Smith and Volker Straus... these guys made many 4-channel recordings for Philips. Some of them are already available on Super Audio CD. Straus produced Mozart/Krips and Tchaikovsky/Stokowski (the recent one) albums, for example. Smith designed Stokowski's earlier Tchaikovsky album (Francesca da Rimini, Serenade for strings). 
Are there more quadraphonic recordings in Philips archives? I have shared my personal suggestions before but I want real answers. Do you have any information about that?


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## geralmar

Luukas said:


> Few hours ago I picked up the Mozart/Brendel RQR album at www.pentatonemusic.com.
> View attachment 85604
> 
> According to the short sound samples it will be a delightful listening experience.
> The producer here was Eric Smith, quite unknown name for me. Eric Smith and Volker Straus... these guys made many 4-channel recordings for Philips. Some of them are already available on Super Audio CD. Straus produced Mozart/Krips and Tchaikovsky/Stokowski (the recent one) albums, for example. Smith designed Stokowski's earlier Tchaikovsky album (Francesca da Rimini, Serenade for strings).
> Are there more quadraphonic recordings in Philips archives? I have shared my personal suggestions before but I want real answers. Do you have any information about that?


FYI: Erik Smith was son of conductor Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt, who recorded for Decca. The latter's recordings included a complete Beethoven symphony cycle with the Vienna Philharmonic. Erik changed his last name to avoid any suggestion of nepotism.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85605

I decided to make my own edition of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 12. The work has been coupled with the 17th concerto on the latest RQR album of Pentatone. Here is the first page of the conductor's score. It is still in preparation. I'm going to offer it for Serenissima Music Inc. or Schott Music Ltd.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Here's my take. The demand for multichannel audio isn't that big here in Japan, either. Actually, the demand for high-end 2-channel stereo equipment isn't doing all that well, either. Most young people here don't have any serious audio equipment...amps, big speakers, separate components, etc... They seem to prefer the convenience of portable music players and earbuds or sound bars. Some people (who actually have a TV) have a basic 5.1 home theater system in their living rooms, though.
> 
> In the medium to high-end market, 2-channel is more popular. This is probably due to the size of most apartments in Tokyo. But... outside of Tokyo, homes are more spacious. I have been to houses with nice audio systems including large floor speakers and some with 5.1 systems. I suppose age also has something to do with 2-channel being more popular. The older generation seems to be fixated on older recordings of Jazz and Classical from the 1950s and 60s. Several Japanese labels release a lot of 2-channel SACDs with remasterings of older recordings. Esoteric's SACDs are particularly popular here. (Personally, I really don't understand what all the fuss with that label is about, though.)
> 
> But, Hirez MCH isn't non-existent in Japan. Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz produce excellent audio equipment for surround. There are some fans of surround recordings on SACD, DVD, and Bluray. I often find reviews of surround recordings on the Internet. Quadraphonic recordings/systems have a long history here. Isao Tomita's music is respected and still popular here. (He just died recently. RIP.) He was a pioneer in 4.0 surround sound.
> 
> I think the situation is similar in China and Korea. There has been a steady stream of SACDs by companies based in Hong Kong. These are mostly in stereo, though.
> 
> Multichannel audio seems to have the biggest following in the North American market. But there too, downloading and the Internet seem to be taking over the music industry. The recent 'Vinyl' boom is very small and probably won't last very long. For Hipsters, it's just a trendy way to look cool. In Japan (and Germany I believe) physical media is popular. In general, however, sales of physical discs are steadily falling. I suppose there will still be a few boutique labels producing SACDs, CDs, and Vinyl for us diehards. But, Channel Classics, BIS and others are slowly but steadily moving away from discs.


That is a discouraging assessment but thank you for giving it, Biwa. It is interesting how from the outside, observers such as Lukaas and myself can conclude that Japan must be a multi channel haven . Your report that the younger Japanese generation is as disinterested in quality sound reproduction as is their Western counterparts bursts a bubble for me because I was hoping that Far East would generate enough demand for multichannel high Res to keep the market going.
I also am discouraging by your take on BIS, Channel, and others, but I suspect they will keep issuing more multichannel discs for years to come.
Luukas, I think your pleas to dispense with RBCD in favor of SACD will fall on deaf ears. However, the the CD market continues to contract, perhaps A larger proportion of discs will be offered as SACD/CD hybrids, or perhaps CD/Blu Rays.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85624

WOW! This is something very special, indeed. LSO Live released another recording of Gergiev's Berlioz cycle from the past. This "Romeo et Juliette" is *the first SACD of this work*, ever! There is multichannel 5.1 layer as well as 2.0 stereo. I just pre-ordered the album and LSO will dispatch it to me on 1st July 2016. I do have a study score (Eulenburg). How exciting... I can hardly wait to receive this 2-disc set! 
Meanwhile we are waiting the Ozawa/Boston quad recording this one might be a good makeshift. 

You can pre-order your own copy here: http://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/sacd-hybrid/products/berlioz-romeo-et-juliette-vg


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> View attachment 85605
> 
> I decided to make my own edition of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 12. The work has been coupled with the 17th concerto on the latest RQR album of Pentatone. Here is the first page of the conductor's score. It is still in preparation. I'm going to offer it for Serenissima Music Inc. or Schott Music Ltd.


Mozart's first A major concerto is one my favorites. It's incredible that he wrote another piece of magic & wonder in the same key! It's difficult for me to choose which one I like more...


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> That is a discouraging assessment but thank you for giving it, Biwa. It is interesting how from the outside, observers such as Lukaas and myself can conclude that Japan must be a multi channel haven . Your report that the younger Japanese generation is as disinterested in quality sound reproduction as is their Western counterparts bursts a bubble for me because I was hoping that Far East would generate enough demand for multichannel high Res to keep the market going.
> I also am discouraging by your take on BIS, Channel, and others, but I suspect they will keep issuing more multichannel discs for years to come.
> Luukas, I think your pleas to dispense with RBCD in favor of SACD will fall on deaf ears. However, the the CD market continues to contract, perhaps A larger proportion of discs will be offered as SACD/CD hybrids, or perhaps CD/Blu Rays.


Didn't mean to preach all gloom and doom. I don't think the music's over for MCH at all. 
Both Jared Sacks over at Channel and Robert von Bahr at BIS are fans & firm believers in MCH recording and dedicated to its future. They have discussed this at length on many occasions. They are and will continue to produce new MCH recordings. Robert has said he wants BIS to continue releasing physical discs, especially SACDs. According to him, he's even losing money doing that. But...with sales of physical discs falling drastically, he is uncertain about how long BIS will be able to continue that way. Jared is releasing new Native DSD MCH recordings on Channel's website as downloads and some as SACDs. BIS also has MCH downloads available. PentaTone and others are also very serious about MCH recordings. And, there are many in the industry on all continents who love listening in MCH and are actively working with MCH recordings: Erdo Groot, Kal Rubinson, Brian Moura, etc... They all prefer the natural soundstage of MCH recordings. There are also thousands of MCH aficionados around the world listening to these wonderful recordings. So, even if the major labels and big pop stars don't embrace MCH as much as they could, I still strongly believe MCH recordings will continue to improve and grow.

Some of more exciting aspects of MCH's future are the possibilities offered by even higher resolutions and perhaps more importantly better use of that technology. In this day & age, it's unbelievable that most recordings are released on RBCD or MP3 technology. Studio master recordings have been Hirez since the 1990s, but everyone is still listening to them on 40 year old technology. The Internet could offer us a way to get recordings the way they are recorded. The problem is the one you mentioned before about downloads taking too long to receive and the possibility of dropouts. I'm sure this will improve year by year. In the meantime, I'm relishing all these fabulous discs with their gorgeous music in surround sound! :tiphat:


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## Biwa

Just now listening to TACET's Beethoven - Septet & Octet. WOW!! Camerata freden give sunny, warm-hearted performances of these charming works. TACET's surround recording is superb. One of their best!


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> View attachment 85624
> 
> WOW! This is something very special, indeed. LSO Live released another recording of Gergiev's Berlioz cycle from the past. This "Romeo et Juliette" is *the first SACD of this work*, ever! There is multichannel 5.1 layer as well as 2.0 stereo. I just pre-ordered the album and LSO will dispatch it to me on 1st July 2016. I do have a study score (Eulenburg). How exciting... I can hardly wait to receive this 2-disc set!
> Meanwhile we are waiting the Ozawa/Boston quad recording this one might be a good makeshift.
> 
> You can pre-order your own copy here: http://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/sacd-hybrid/products/berlioz-romeo-et-juliette-vg


Great to see more Berlioz is coming! Let's hope they got this LSO Live recorded well.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Great to see more Berlioz is coming! Let's hope they got this LSO Live recorded well.


The SACD from LSO live haven't impressed me much. I think the main issue is the Barbican, or as some Audiophile wags have labeled it, The Garbage Can.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> View attachment 85626
> 
> 
> Just now listening to TACET's Beethoven - Septet & Octet. WOW!! Camerata freden give sunny, warm-hearted performances of these charming works. TACET's surround recording is superb. One of their best!


I have been listening to Tacets Scubert Octet and a disc of Vivaldi Concertos. Wonderful stuff.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> The SACD from LSO live haven't impressed me much. I think the main issue is the Barbican, or as some Audiophile wags have labeled it, *The Garbage Can*.


I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Well... I'm in a good mood, so I am LMAO! :lol:

I admit that I sort of cringe when I see recordings from there. You've got great performances smeared by dry, sterile acoustics.

"Garbage Can"...perfect!


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## Luukas

Yes, the acoustics of the Barbican Hall is dry. Sir Simon Rattle has criticized the thing. And there was a great renovation some years ago. Still dry, anyway. But who cares? I mean that every concert hall is different and there cannot be impressive acoustics in every place. It is surely very difficult to create a realistic 3-D sound field in the Barbican Hall. I don't want that my latest purchase was useless or mistake. As I told you before the SACD albums of LSO Live are sometimes the only MCH recordings of the works. In this case we simply cannot find another SACD album of Berlioz's "Romeo and Juliet". This was the reason why I pre-ordered the album.


----------



## Biwa

Oh, don't worry. We are just having a little fun with the Barbican's reputation.  I don't think your purchase will be a mistake, Luukas. You already know what to expect with LSO Live recordings in the Barbican. If the performance is good, there will be much to enjoy. And who knows? We might get lucky with a decent recording. I think Davis's Falstaff on LSO Live sounds pretty good in MCH. Definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions of it.


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## Luukas

Thanks, Biwa! After the costly purchase I was perhaps in too serious mood... :lol: I have considered to purchase the Falstaff album, anyway. Mahler's Symphony No. 3 sounds quite impressive in surround. Jonathan Stokes and others have done an excellent job in Barbican. One of my personal favorites, absolutely. Order it if you don't have it!
View attachment 85633


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## Biwa

I haven't heard that one. Thanks for the tip! As you mentioned before, LSO Live has given us several works unavailable elsewhere in MCH. Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet is another fine recording of theirs. I hope to see the ballet this autumn.


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## Luukas

Here are my personal LSO Live favorites:

- Beethoven: Complete Symphonies, Leonore Overture No. 2 & Triple Concerto (Haitink)
- Beethoven: Fidelio, Op. 72 (Davis)
- Berlioz: Requiem (Grande messe des morts), Op. 5 (Davis)
- Berlioz: L'enfance du Christ (Davis)
- Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique, Op. 14 (Gergiev)
- Haydn: Symphonies Nos. 92, 93, 97-99 (Davis)
- Mahler: Symphony No. 3 (Gergiev)
- Mahler: Symphony No. 7 (Gergiev)
- Sir Colin Davis Anthology
- Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie (Haitink)
- Weber: Der Freischutz (Davis)

There are pretty nice concert hall ambience from rear speakers. And clarity of the instruments becomes clearer in a dry acoustics. Do you agree? Do you have similar experiences?


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## Triplets

I have a couple of Colin Davis LSO lLive SACDs, none of which you listed. I found the sonics unacceptable and have avoided the label since. I am glad that you are enjoying your recordings and please don't let my comments deter you.


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## Biwa

I am curious to hear which ones were such a turn off for you.


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## Luukas

You were right, Biwa: the Sibelius/Kamu set is simply gorgeous! It even beats my current favorite, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra and Paavo Berglund! Kamu offers an analytical performances of these familiar works. Thanks to the clear multichannel sound of BIS we are able to hear previously unheard details from the scores. For example the lower voices of the harmonies are finally audible. My personal disc of the year! Highly recommended, definitely.
PS. I have just listened the first disc of the set.


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## Biwa

Fantastic! Glad to hear it, Luukas.

As for myself, I couldn't resist doing some music shopping this afternoon and came across a fascinating SACD of music by Górecki and Korndorf. It was released by Challenge Classics earlier this year. One thing odd is that it only has a small label on the front cover to show that it's a surround SACD. Looking at the back cover, one could easily assume this was only a regular CD. But, a MCH SACD it is! The Górecki piece's recording is especially discrete. The performers are placed in a triangle position. The music is modern, minimalistic and guaranteed to clean your ears out, so it might not be everyone's cup of tea. The Goeyvaerts Trio have a firm grasp of these works.

Here's a link... http://www.classical-cd-reviews.com/2016/04/whispers-of-titans-gorecki-korndorf.html


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## Luukas

Oh, I do have similar experiences. For example I thought firstly that Hannu Lintu's Sibelius disc (Lemminkäinen & Pohjola's Daughter) was just a regular CD. But as we know it is multichannel SACD. A positive surprise. 
I read about a week ago that Lintu and the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra have recorded another Sibelius disc for Ondine. It should be available later in this year. The program of the album will be Tapiola and the orchestral songs, at least. Perhaps we are able to enjoy a 5.0 surround sound, again. Exciting news, indeed.


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## Triplets

the LSO Live stinkers that I bought were Nielsen Symphonies (two discs) and a Sibelius pairing. Since i have long since disposed of the discs I can't give you chapter and verse which records they were....
Listening to the Tacet "Grand Partita" of Mozart right now. What a great joy after a hard day!


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## Luukas

Warner Music Japan has released four 5-channel SACDs with Sir Simon Rattle as follows:

- Dvorak: Symphonic Poems / Rattle (WPGS-50034/5)
- Holst: The Planets / Rattle (WPGS-50028/9)
- Mahler: Symphony No. 5 / Rattle (WPGS-50030)
- Messiaen: Eclairs Sur L'Au-Dela / Rattle (WPGS-50033)

They all looks very interesting. I have considered to purchase the Mahler and Holst albums, at least. But before that I need your advice. Have you heard them with surround sound? How about the rear speakers? Are they active? Or are they used only for the ambience?
Sony Classical Japan has also released some 5-channel SACDs, for example the complete Mahler/Bernstein cycle from 1960s. I want to hear your thoughts about this bunch, as well.


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## Pugg

> Sony Classical Japan has also released some 5-channel SACDs, for example the complete Mahler/Bernstein cycle from 1960s.


One of my favourite cycles by Bernstein. 
(I do have them in a Bernstein box)


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> You were right, Biwa: the Sibelius/Kamu set is simply gorgeous! It even beats my current favorite, Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra and Paavo Berglund! Kamu offers an analytical performances of these familiar works. Thanks to the clear multichannel sound of BIS we are able to hear previously unheard details from the scores. For example the lower voices of the harmonies are finally audible. My personal disc of the year! Highly recommended, definitely.
> PS. I have just listened the first disc of the set.


Have you heard the Vanska/Minnesota set on BIS (hopefully,, 3, 6, & 7 will be released this year). As performances they are similar 
to the Vanska/Lahti set, which I have as mp3, but the larger Orchestra and the standard editions of the Symphonies give it a more traditional feel.


----------



## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Have you heard the Vanska/Minnesota set on BIS (hopefully,, 3, 6, & 7 will be released this year). As performances they are similar
> to the Vanska/Lahti set, which I have as mp3, but the larger Orchestra and the standard editions of the Symphonies give it a more traditional feel.


Yes, I have heard them. Quite spirited performances but Vanska's older cycle is better, in my view. In the Minnesota set the 1st Symphony sounds pretty stressful because the tempo choices are even faster than in Lahti (35'28/Lahti, 35'05/Minnesota). The 4th Symphony is more impressive. The 2nd Symphony is too serious (the second movement took 16'30) and the 5th Symphony sounds too heavy. I would give 3/5 for the Minnesota set.

MY TOP 5 SIBELIUS CYCLES (not to be missed):
1) Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Okko Kamu (BIS) 
2) Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Paavo Berglund (Warner Classics)
3) Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Osmo Vanska (BIS)
4) Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis (Philips Classics)
5) Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam (Ondine)


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## Luukas

View attachment 85739

Guys, I just ordered the Berlioz/Davis RQR album (Grande messe des morts) at Presto Classical. It was a bargain because the special offer ends as early as 18th July 2016. I do have the later LSO Live SACD of this spectacular work, also.
I look forward to hear the offstage brass in Tuba mirum. Biwa, you told me before that the rear speakers are active here. Well, the album might be a kind of test to my multi-channel playback system. Neighbours, beware!


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## Biwa

Other than the recording showing its age a little, the Berlioz/Davis RQR is a winner IMHO. I hope you like it as much as I do. 

About the LSO Live SACDs, I like Haitink's Eine Alpinsinfonie, too. Davis's Otello and Dream of Gerontius are good, but they've been surpassed on SACD by Muti's Otello and Andrew Davis's Gerontius. I forgot all about Colin Davis's Berlioz: Benvenuto Cellini, and Farnes's Britten: The Turn of the Screw. I'll have seek out inexpensive copies of those.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> the LSO Live stinkers that I bought were Nielsen Symphonies (two discs) and a Sibelius pairing. Since i have long since disposed of the discs I can't give you chapter and verse which records they were....
> Listening to the Tacet "Grand Partita" of Mozart right now. What a great joy after a hard day!


Last weekend I came across a whole bunch of used TACET's DVD-As. What a great joy, indeed!

Evgeni Koroliov/Debussy Préludes is exquisite. The surround mix is tastefully done, nothing too outrageous.


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Warner Music Japan has released four 5-channel SACDs with Sir Simon Rattle as follows:
> 
> - Dvorak: Symphonic Poems / Rattle (WPGS-50034/5)
> - Holst: The Planets / Rattle (WPGS-50028/9)
> - Mahler: Symphony No. 5 / Rattle (WPGS-50030)
> - Messiaen: Eclairs Sur L'Au-Dela / Rattle (WPGS-50033)
> 
> They all looks very interesting. I have considered to purchase the Mahler and Holst albums, at least. But before that I need your advice. Have you heard them with surround sound? How about the rear speakers? Are they active? Or are they used only for the ambience?
> Sony Classical Japan has also released some 5-channel SACDs, for example the complete Mahler/Bernstein cycle from 1960s. I want to hear your thoughts about this bunch, as well.


Messiaen/Rattle is fantastic! Discrete and very immersive. If you like the music, it's a must in surround. I finally dug it out of my pile of discs! Actually, I was listening to LSO live Prokofiev - Romeo & Juliet before this one and I definitely prefer the sonics of the Messiaen recording. I'm not sure about the other Sony Classical MCH SACDs. I'll see if I can find some deals on them and let you know later.

I've also got Bernstein/Mahler Symphony no.3 in MCH somewhere around here. I'll give you some feedback later. I remember it sounded good, but I believe the surround mixes are synthesized surround. Do you know if they went back to the master tapes and remixed a real surround mix??


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## Luukas

These Mahler albums were originally 3-channel recordings. I'm not sure but I think that the front channels were mastered from the master tapes. The surround channels were added later. After that the whole thing was set down to DSD. There isn't a real surround sound, actually.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85768
View attachment 85769
View attachment 85770
View attachment 85772
View attachment 85773

The latest bird of my collection landed today - the Mozart/Brendel RQR album. It was recorded in September 1970 and remastered in April 2016. 46 years... This one had to wait its full bloom such a long time! I'm going to write a short review here soon.


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## Luukas

Have you ever think why the Mozart/Grumiaux REMASTERED CLASSICS album isn't available at pentatonemusic.com? Well, I asked this thing and received an answer:
"Good afternoon Luukas,
Pentatone is very happy that you are such a fan of our Remastered Classics series. 
This product was not supposed to appear on the website because it is not in final faze (face?) yet. I am very sorry for that. Our IT team is working on it. Our product management and team are currently working on remastering this product but they came upon some problems. So please be patient and follow us on our website for the new release date. Thank you very much for your interest and understanding".


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## Biwa

Thanks for sharing your correspondence with PentaTone. Grumiaux's performances of Mozart are justly famous...and deserve to be heard in Quad. His sweet tone (perhaps a little too sweet at times ) suits Mozart's graceful Austrian charm. Let's hope PentaTone can work out any problems they run into and get these recordings released soon.

I am still looking for my Bernstein/M3. But in the meanwhile, I am catching up on listening to some recently acquired SACDs. This one is a sheer delight.









Camille Saint-Saëns: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2

Radio Symphony Orchestra Frankfurt
Eliahu Inbal (conductor)


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## Luukas

The mentioned Saint-Saëns album received "Presto Recommends" Award at Presto Classical. And other reviewers (classicalcdreview.com, for example) found it as a great recording. These symphonies are less known as the famous "Organ Symphony". Still, I just added it to my wish list at HRAudio.net. 
I have thinking that quadraphonic technology. It offers mostly a 3-dimensional surround sound where the listener is placed in the middle of the music. But in some cases there isn't much ambience from the rear speakers. A good example would be the Schubert RQR album (The Trout Quintet, Beaux Arts Trio). The engineer was Wilhelm Hellweg but I didn't find anything difference between this 4-channel restoration and 2-channel stereo. The rear speakers just increased few loud climaxes of the work. Strange decision.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Thanks for sharing your correspondence with PentaTone. Grumiaux's performances of Mozart are justly famous...and deserve to be heard in Quad. His sweet tone (perhaps a little too sweet at times ) suits Mozart's graceful Austrian charm. Let's hope PentaTone can work out any problems they run into and get these recordings released soon.
> 
> I am still looking for my Bernstein/M3. But in the meanwhile, I am catching up on listening to some recently acquired SACDs. This one is a sheer delight.
> 
> View attachment 85801
> 
> 
> Camille Saint-Saëns: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2
> 
> Radio Symphony Orchestra Frankfurt
> Eliahu Inbal (conductor)


 Grumiaux Mozart Concertos would be enticing. He was superb in Mozart. I have the Pentatone issue of Beethoven Concerto and that is a less happy affair. It sounds curiously superficial and slick, not qualities that I would normally associate with this Violinist.
Salvatore Accardo was a Phillips Violinist who has had some of his recordings reissued by pentagon. Unfortunately he is a player that I never much cared fore. I always thought his tone was pinched and lacking color and multichannel, imo, just makes his deficiencies more prominent.
it's a pity that Phillips didn't have some of the great Violinists of the era--Perlman, Stern, Mutter, Milstein, etc.--in their stable.
I am not a great Saint - Saens fan. Other people have written positively of his first two Symphonies but I just find them to be well constructed but slight musically.
The Concertgebouw has released a set of Mahler Symphonies on it's on Blu Ray Label. A different Conductor for each Symphony. Inbal has the 10th (Cooke, I think) it's a very dramatic reading in great sound. It was very cheaply priced as well.


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## Luukas

There will be two Accardo albums in the Remastered Classics later in this year: Violin Concertos of Beethoven and Bruch as well as Bruch's Works for Violin and Orchestra. Great stuff is coming!


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## Luukas

View attachment 85819
View attachment 85820
View attachment 85821

Do you have experiences with these Nimbus DVD-A albums? They are all remastered from the original 4-channel tapes.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 85819
> View attachment 85820
> View attachment 85821
> 
> Do you have experiences with these Nimbus DVD-A albums? They are all remastered from the original 4-channel tapes.


I own all 3 of those albums although I haven't listened to them for a couple of years


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> I own all 3 of those albums although I haven't listened to them for a couple of years


 It would be helpful if you will write a short review here. Few words of each album. Can you do that, please? I will appreciate it!


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## Luukas

I purchased these SACDs:

• Humperdinck: Hänsel and Gretel (complete opera)
Staatskapelle Weimar, Martin Hoff (conductor)
MDG
• Shostakovich: Symphony No. 15 & Hamlet
Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Pletnev (conductor)
Pentatone Music
• Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra, Till Eulenspiegels, Don Juan
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Charles Mackerras (conductor)
Membran Music Ltd.
• Strauss: An Alpine Symphony [Eine Alpensinfonie] & Don Juan
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Mariss Jansons (conductor)
RCO Live

So, my chest of treasures is on the way...  Jansons's "An Alpine Symphony" received "Editor's Choice" Award at Gramophone Magazine. BBC Music Magazine gave 5 stars for the Shostakovich/Pletnev album. Strauss/Mackerras was recommended choice at HRAudio.net for "Zarathustra". And there isn't another SACD of Humperdinck's fairy opera than the mentioned one.


----------



## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Grumiaux Mozart Concertos would be enticing. He was superb in Mozart. I have the Pentatone issue of Beethoven Concerto and that is a less happy affair. It sounds curiously superficial and slick, not qualities that I would normally associate with this Violinist.
> Salvatore Accardo was a Phillips Violinist who has had some of his recordings reissued by pentagon. Unfortunately he is a player that I never much cared fore. I always thought his tone was pinched and lacking color and multichannel, imo, just makes his deficiencies more prominent.
> it's a pity that Phillips didn't have some of the great Violinists of the era--Perlman, Stern, Mutter, Milstein, etc.--in their stable.
> I am not a great Saint - Saens fan. Other people have written positively of his first two Symphonies but I just find them to be well constructed but slight musically.
> The Concertgebouw has released a set of Mahler Symphonies on it's on Blu Ray Label. A different Conductor for each Symphony. Inbal has the 10th (Cooke, I think) it's a very dramatic reading in great sound. It was very cheaply priced as well.


A while back Luukas posted a list of unreleased Quad recordings. Along with some others, I was particularly intrigued by the Vivaldi that was performed and conducted by Pearlman. (Not that I need another 4 seasons. I have enough to keep me feeling the warm sunshine of spring and the chill of winter for years. LOL!!) I agree it would be nice to have a wider selection of recordings from top violinists of the era.

Saint-Saëns's first 2 symphonies might not be among the greatest works for the genre, but I love their freshness and melodic invention. I can feel the youthfulness of Mendelssohn, Mozart, and Beethoven. It could also be where I am in life. As I get older I find that I am opening up to music more...looking for the creative human spirit inspiring the art, rather than just seeking out perfection.

Thanks for the tip on the Mahler Bluray set. I was wondering about it. Abbado's Bluray set is wonderful as well. No 10th, though.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I purchased these SACDs:
> 
> • Humperdinck: Hänsel and Gretel (complete opera)
> Staatskapelle Weimar, Martin Hoff (conductor)
> MDG
> • Shostakovich: Symphony No. 15 & Hamlet
> Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Pletnev (conductor)
> Pentatone Music
> • Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra, Till Eulenspiegels, Don Juan
> Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Sir Charles Mackerras (conductor)
> Membran Music Ltd.
> • Strauss: An Alpine Symphony [Eine Alpensinfonie] & Don Juan
> Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Mariss Jansons (conductor)
> RCO Live
> 
> So, my chest of treasures is on the way...  Jansons's "An Alpine Symphony" received "Editor's Choice" Award at Gramophone Magazine. BBC Music Magazine gave 5 stars for the Shostakovich/Pletnev album. Strauss/Mackerras was recommended choice at HRAudio.net for "Zarathustra". And there isn't another SACD of Humperdinck's fairy opera than the mentioned one.


That performance of Hänsel and Gretel is good. It's great to have it on SACD. Membran's SACD are ok for what they are. I can hear a digital edge to the violins, but it's not awful. I believe most of those were originally 20-bit recordings, so they are sort of Hirez. The surround mixes are probably not real, but they work well. Delius/Seaman is one of my favorites.


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## Luukas

So, do you have many Membran SACDs? Which ones are the best? I do have the following albums in my wish list:

• Bernstein: Symphonic Suites from West Side Story, Three Dance Variations from Fancy Fee, Three Dance Episodes from On the Town & Candide Overture
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Carl Davis (conductor)
• Bizet: Symphony in C major & L'Arlésienne Suites Nos. 1 and 2
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Jacques Delacote (conductor)
• Chopin: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
Sequeira Costa (piano), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Gilbert Varga (conductor)
• Dvorak: Symphony No. 8 in G & Serenade for Strings
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin (conductor)
• Elgar: Enigma Variations, In the South, Pomp and Circumstance March No. 4
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin (conductor)
• Gorecki: Symphony No. 3 "Sorrowful Songs" & Three Pieces in the Olden Style
Susan Gritton (soprano), Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Yuri Simonov (conductor)
• Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C-sharp minor
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Frank Shipway (conductor)
• Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 2 in E minor
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Vernon Handley (conductor)
• Shostakovich: Symphony No. 10 in E minor & The Gadfly Suite (excerpts)
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Frank Shipway (conductor)
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 & Marche Slave
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin (conductor)


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## Biwa

I wish I could help out more, but I don't have any on your list. Actually, I don't have that many Membran SACDs to begin with. I've preoccupied with other SACDs, etc... I remember Holst - Planets, Berwald - Symphonies, English String Music, Prokofiev - Symphony no.1... being pretty good.

But Luukas, most Membran SACDs are so inexpensive. I often see them in the bargain bin. Why not just buy the ones that look interesting to you?

And...continuing with my backlog of SACDs, Battalia on the ARTS label is a wonderfully immersive surround recording of late Renaissance/early Baroque music for brass and perscussion.


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## Luukas

Yeah, you are right. I have considered to order the Gorecki/Simonov and Mahler/Shipway albums as well as the Shostakovich/Shipway one. They have been the most popular items of the collection, I think.


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## Luukas

Great news: Reference Recordings will re-release their acclaimed album of Saint-Saëns "Organ Symphony" on SACD with 5.1-channel surround sound! I'm going to pick up it as soon as it is available.


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## Biwa

Now you've got me interested in that Górecki/Simonov recording.  There definitely are some good performances in the Membran series and quite tempting at bargain basement prices.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Great news: Reference Recordings will re-release their acclaimed album of Saint-Saëns "Organ Symphony" on SACD with 5.1-channel surround sound! I'm going to pick up it as soon as it is available.


WOW! That's terrific! I assume this is the first time on MCH SACD, right?


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## Luukas

Yes, the album was originally released as a regular CD. If you're speaking about the work there are many SACDs on the growing field. You surely know this thing.


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## Luukas

The stunning surround sound has been guaranteed by Soundmirror. I'm pretty sure that my subwoofer will shake the walls of the rooms. It's gonna be an earthquake, then. :lol:

Here are the album covers:
View attachment 85844
View attachment 85845


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## Luukas

Yesterday I listened the Four Norwegian Dances from the Grieg/Leppard RQR album. It was a pleasant listening experience. Oh, how much I want that Pentatone will continue this revelatory series! I have loved the every single album of my collection, really.


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## Biwa

Well, I've got plenty of earthquakes here to deal with.  
Yes, I meant is this the first for this Reference Recording of the Organ Symphony to be released on MCH SACD. I'm sure it will be a fantastic experience. 

I share your enthusiasm for the PentaTone's remastered Quad SACDs. And I'll do you one better. I hope MCH SACDs will be continued by ALL music labels. I have been enjoying so many recordings from many labels these past several years. They've enriched my home listening experience immensely!!


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## Luukas

Biwa said:


> Well, I've got plenty of earthquakes here to deal with.
> Yes, I meant is this the first for this Reference Recording of the Organ Symphony to be released on MCH SACD. I'm sure it will be a fantastic experience.
> 
> I share your enthusiasm for the PentaTone's remastered Quad SACDs. And I'll do you one better. I hope MCH SACDs will be continued by ALL music labels. I have been enjoying so many recordings from many labels these past several years. They've enriched my home listening experience immensely!!


I totally agree. SACD has radically changed my way to listen classical music. To be honest it has opened a new world.
It is wonderful to hear the hunting horns in the "Alpine Symphony" from the rear speakers! It gives a feeling that you are climbing up to the mountain and the hunters blows their instruments somewhere. And perhaps even Beethoven knew this 3-dimensional effect when he wrote the offstage trumpet to his "Leonore Overture No. 3". Mahler wanted to capture the whole universe into his Symphony No. 8. And this capture was made with distant trumpets and trombones. :lol:


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## Luukas

Biwa, have you listened the Mahler/Bernstein SACD (3rd Symphony)? I want to hear your thoughts before I'll place my order. I have planned to purchase the complete cycle as well as "Das Lied von der Erde" which is also released on 5-channel SACD.


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## Luukas

Here is the Saint-Saëns album: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11610. I just added it to my wish list. Are you (Biwa & Triplets) the users of the site?


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## Biwa

Ok. I finally had time to dig out Lenny's 1961 M3 in 5.0. It sounds excellent, Luukas. As I listen, I am thinking to myself...why the heck haven't I gotten more of these SACDs!? Anyway, the DSD remastering sounds beautiful. The rear channels are used sparingly. They only add a bit of ambiance. It's mainly a 3-channel recording. I am going to search around for the best prices of these SACDs on patiently acquire them. I warmly recommend you do the same, Luukas. 

Yes, I checkout HRaudio & SA-CD.net for reviews & comments on recordings.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Here is the Saint-Saëns album: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11610. I just added it to my wish list. Are you (Biwa & Triplets) the users of the site?


I am not a user


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> The stunning surround sound has been guaranteed by Soundmirror. I'm pretty sure that my subwoofer will shake the walls of the rooms. It's gonna be an earthquake, then. :lol:
> 
> Here are the album covers:
> View attachment 85844
> View attachment 85845


Sound mirror did a very poor job with the Surround Mix o Honeck/Pittsburgh album of Dvorak 8 and Janacek Vixen Suite. Many people criticized the Surround Mix and said that Reference should not have outsourced this


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## Luukas

Thanks for the tip, Biwa! I haven't heard the Dvorak album, Triplets. But as you said the surround mix has divided people's opinions. Strangely I found just recommendations:

- Graham Williams reviewed the disc with double 5-star results at HRAudio.net. http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=9861#reviews
- David Hurwitz gave 10/10 at ClassicsToday.com. http://www.classicstoday.com/review/honecks-incandescent-dvorak-8th/
- Five starts (Audiophile Audition): http://www.audaud.com/dvorak-sympho...ch-manfred-honeck-fresh-reference-recordings/


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Sound mirror did a very poor job with the Surround Mix o Honeck/Pittsburgh album of Dvorak 8 and Janacek Vixen Suite. Many people criticized the Surround Mix and said that Reference should not have outsourced this


Are you sure you don't mean the 2-ch stereo mix?

I am listening to the Dvorák/Janáček SACD in MCH now. It sounds good to me. Vivid, full sound! I believe the recording session was done in the same hall and by the same team that recorded the PentaTone Brahms you like so much. I am not sure if it quite matches the perfection of those Brahms symphonies, but it's pretty darn good. The rear channels aren't quite as involved as with the Brahms and the low end might be a wee bit heavy when the full orchestra gets going. This seems to be more of an issue with the 2-ch stereo mix. Anyway, I have had positive experiences with Reference Recordings SACD so far.


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## Luukas

Well, because we were speaking about Bernstein's 1960s Mahler cycle I'll tell you my own recommendations. I haven't heard these albums in their multi-channel SACD forms but my experiences based on the stereo releases.

View attachment 85912
View attachment 85913

"This is one of the better Mahler 2nds. Bernstein's intrinsic charisma inspired the musicians to give their best. The offstage brass in the finale were distant as they should be. The last pages of the symphony were likewise impressive. Highly recommended recording, not to be missed".

View attachment 85914

BBC Music Magazine nominated this as "The Best Recording" of Mahler's 7th. And it wasn't a mistake at all. Phenomenal performance with superb 96kHz/24bit remastering. Lenny's finale was virtuosic roller coaster and orchestral fireworks. The day outplayed the night. A real treasure for all Mahlerians".

View attachment 85916
View attachment 85917

Mahler's Sixth and Ninth have been very important works for me. Here they are performed in an exemplary manner. The Sixth is even more dramatic than usually - beware the hammer blows in the finale - and the Ninth offers some memorable moments. I look forward to hear these on SACD".


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## Biwa

Now I know just where to start my search for Lenny.  Thanks, Luukas!

I would also recommend this Quad recording. The SACD is OOP and pricey, but keep an eye out for a bargain.

Mahler: Symphony No. 5

Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
Vaclav Neumann (conductor)


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## Luukas

You're welcome.  Is this the same recording? http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=4145


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## Biwa

No, that one was recorded in 1993.

This one from the 1970s...http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=4025


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## Luukas

I see. Have you heard the 1993 recording? The tempo choices of the scherzo (18'58) and the finale (16'07) makes me nervous. They are about two minutes slower than normally. What is the best SACD of Mahler's 5th? I do have Haenchen (Pentatone) and Fischer (Channel). Both are good but I need more to my library. Nott/Todor? Stenz/Oehms? Zinman/RCA? Zander/Telarc? Shipway/Membran? Rattle/WarnerMusicJapan? Bernstein/SonyClassicalJapan? Or perhaps MTT/SFS? I need your advices.


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## Luukas

My hi-res library contains the "Credo" (BD-A) album of Deutsche Grammophon. Sadly, it was just a 2-channel, not a 5.1 as I expected. But the album descriptions at Presto Classical tells the following facts about the sound: "HD formats 2.1/5.1". What this mean? Am I able to listen the entire album with surround sound? I didn't have time to concentrate on the options.


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## Luukas

View attachment 85941

Well, my RQR collection expands nicely because I just picked up this Schumann/Inbal 4-channel album. The "Spring" Symphony was recorded in 1970 and the "Rhenish" in 1971. The producer was excellent Volker Straus. I will write a review here as soon as possible.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Are you sure you don't mean the 2-ch stereo mix?
> 
> I am listening to the Dvorák/Janáček SACD in MCH now. It sounds good to me. Vivid, full sound! I believe the recording session was done in the same hall and by the same team that recorded the PentaTone Brahms you like so much. I am not sure if it quite matches the perfection of those Brahms symphonies, but it's pretty darn good. The rear channels aren't quite as involved as with the Brahms and the low end might be a wee bit heavy when the full orchestra gets going. This seems to be more of an issue with the 2-ch stereo mix. Anyway, I have had positive experiences with Reference Recordings SACD so far.


I've read on some sites that were more dedicated to audiophilia about the perceived problems with the 5 channel mix. I also participate in a British music site where there were some complaints.
I have to confess that most of my listening to that disc was in 2 channel. I am out of town currently but will play it on a surround system when I return.


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## Triplets

One source Of surround recording s that hasn't been mentioned is Jordi Savall on Alia Vox. Many of his recordings were originally released in 2 channel and then re released in 5.1. They sound amazing and many of the vocal and percussion effects make imaginative use of the rears


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I see. Have you heard the 1993 recording? The tempo choices of the scherzo (18'58) and the finale (16'07) makes me nervous. They are about two minutes slower than normally. What is the best SACD of Mahler's 5th? I do have Haenchen (Pentatone) and Fischer (Channel). Both are good but I need more to my library. Nott/Todor? Stenz/Oehms? Zinman/RCA? Zander/Telarc? Shipway/Membran? Rattle/WarnerMusicJapan? Bernstein/SonyClassicalJapan? Or perhaps MTT/SFS? I need your advices.


Tough call on M5. There are so many Mahler cycles on SACD and many are good. Tilson Thomas also has gotten good reviews. 
I haven't done an A/B comparison of M5 in MCH (it's been a while since I listened to one). But, I'm going to say...try Stenz/Oehms. Both the performance and recording were good for me. I've got Fischer, Stenz, Jansons, Mehta and Neumann in MCH.

That's a bummer about Credo. They really screwed up the BD-A releases in general. Many... Most don't have MCH. And considering the amount of data that can be stored on BD-A, the playing time is relatively short. But, I am looking forward to the 1970s rock band Chicago Quadio box set. It should be coming in the mail soon.

I love the RQR Schumann symphonies as well!


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## Luukas

The Saint-Saëns/Mussorgsky RQR album arrived in the morning. I listened it immediately. Wilhelm Hellweg produced a magnificent surround sound with deep bass and delightful reverberation from the rear speakers. The clear sound of the xylophone was pleasant surprise for me. Attractive disc and a real treasure, of course.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> One source Of surround recording s that hasn't been mentioned is Jordi Savall on Alia Vox. Many of his recordings were originally released in 2 channel and then re released in 5.1. They sound amazing and many of the vocal and percussion effects make imaginative use of the rears


Completely agree! They've done a superb job with Jordi's recordings. And as someone mentioned on another thread, his more recent recordings come in a handsome book filled with information...and the surround sound is awesome. 
I do miss Montserrat Figueras, though.

Any favorite recordings?


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## Biwa

Speaking of treasures, Luukas... I just bought the first new Membran SACD in a long time. And it's a good one... http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=3541


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## Luukas

This looks great!  I'm just wondering: are these Membran reissues up samples or original multichannel recordings? The collection was released about twenty years ago by Tring on CDs. The SACD versions appeared about 10 years later to the market. They were PCM recordings, not DSD as the booklets described.


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## Luukas

Good news! PENTATONE is going to release more Mahler with Marc Albrecht in 2017! The album program will include the Rückert Lieder. The soloist is Alice Coote and the orchestra the Netherlands Philharmonic Orchestra. Whoopee! 

From Instagram: "Touching performance yesterday at the @concertgebouw with @nedpho_ko and #conductor #maestro Marc Albrecht playing #Mahler Ruckert Lieder! Today we are starting the recording sessions of this very repertoire and performers. Voice star Alice Coote!! So excited".


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Completely agree! They've done a superb job with Jordi's recordings. And as someone mentioned on another thread, his more recent recordings come in a handsome book filled with information...and the surround sound is awesome.
> I do miss Montserrat Figueras, though.
> 
> Any favorite recordings?


The Ostinato and Folia discs are great, as are the Loiis XIV, Alfonso El Sabio, and the discs that contain Sephardic music


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## Luukas

View attachment 85956

I have spent this lovely summer evening with this dazzling Beethoven/Kleiber SACD of Deutsche Grammophon. Not quad, as far as I know. But the new surround sound mix sits thee on the best seat of the Musikverein. The rear speakers repeats the furthest corner-reverb of the concert hall. Immersive listening experience, in fact. But beware: not DSD but 94-kHz/24-bit PCM. 
It was a great disappointment that DG stopped their SACD productions some years ago. 
These ones are still in my wish list:
View attachment 85957
View attachment 85958
View attachment 85959
View attachment 85960


Have you heard them?


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> The Ostinato and Folia discs are great, as are the Loiis XIV, Alfonso El Sabio, and the discs that contain Sephardic music


I see there are 2 new releases coming this summer.


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## Biwa

You know that with DG's "Carlos Kleiber complete orchestral recordings" Bluray Audio box set, you can listen not only to the Beethoven's 5 & 7 but also his account of Schubert Sym. 3 & 8, and Brahms Sym 4 in surround.









I've been sitting on the fence with those DG Mahler SACDs because I already have other recordings of them in MCH. As with the above Kleiber recordings, I believe they just added some reverb onto the surround mix. I guess it just depends on how much you want those performances, Luukas. I definitely wanted Kleiber's!


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> You know that with DG's "Carlos Kleiber complete orchestral recordings" Bluray Audio box set, you can listen not only to the Beethoven's 5 & 7 but also his account of Schubert Sym. 3 & 8, and Brahms Sym 4 in surround.
> 
> View attachment 85989


I had bought the Beethoven 5/7 Blu RY disc but wasn't aware of the other 2 that you mentioned. From the same label I have the Bohm Bruckner 4 and Karajan Mahler 5. All make excellent multi channel recordings despite having been recorded in 2 channel.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> I had bought the Beethoven 5/7 Blu RY disc but wasn't aware of the other 2 that you mentioned. From the same label I have the Bohm Bruckner 4 and Karajan Mahler 5. All make excellent multi channel recordings despite having been recorded in 2 channel.


It just goes to show how much music can fit on a single BD-A. They put all 5 symphonies on one BD-A with plenty of room for an audio "Memior" that discusses his career including interviews with musicians and excerpts of his recordings including his operas. Highly recommended for Kleiber fans!

https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Kleib...r=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Bluray++Kleiber+complete

https://www.amazon.com/Carlos-Kleib...r=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Bluray++Kleiber+complete


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## Biwa

These 2 Orfeo recordings were successfully mixed to surround on these SACDs.

Very strongly recommended!


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## Luukas

This Kleiber BD-A set looks magnificent!  Brahms's Fourth wasn't a 4-channel recording. The same thing linked to the other recordings. I think that the surround mixes have been made from the stereo sources. The results could be impressive as I mentioned with the Beethoven recording. 
It is a strange thing, guys, that at the same time DG had a big potential to release similar Kleiber/BD-A box set but this time with complete opera recordings. They didn't want to do it. Luckily we are able to enjoy Kleiber's "La Traviata" in surround. 
The Elgar/Hahn SACD holds the first place of the wish list. I want to order the Mahler/Kaplan SACD though there are four different recordings of the work in my library.


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## Biwa

The music industry is a mysterious place, isn't it? 

Many folks have DVD & Bluray home theater systems. Music labels had an excellent opportunity to release high quality surround recordings. To be sure, they have released many concert DVD & BD-A videos (opera, ballet, orchestral, pop, rock, jazz...) in 5.1 surround sound. However; these often have crappy surround mixes that sound like poorly mixed 24/48 2-ch stereo with audience noise added on. What's even more incomprehensible is that with Bluray Audio discs, music labels choose to release mostly 2-ch recordings. And many of those recordings were already available on SACD. The people in charge of planning & marketing haven't a clue about the potential of Bluray or Hirez audio. It's a real shame.


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## Luukas

Biwa said:


> View attachment 85990
> View attachment 85991
> 
> 
> These 2 Orfeo recordings were successfully mixed to surround on these SACDs.
> 
> Very strongly recommended!


Beethoven's 4th is just stereo, actually. http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=7800


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Beethoven's 4th is just stereo, actually. http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=7800


Oops! How embarrassing!  I stand corrected. Thanks for checking, Luukas.
I hadn't played it in a while. I love that recording so much that I got carried away. Just playing it now, actually. The seventh does have a MCH layer...as does the Orfeo SACD of Der Rosenkavalier.

I was also doing a little comparing of Kleiber's Brahms 4th on the Esoteric 2-CH SACD with the 5.0 bluray. Interestingly, Esoteric is louder. It almost seems as if they boosted the recording level during the mastering. I have to turn the volume up more with the bluray. Both are good, but the way the 5.0 version opens up the orchestra makes for a more pleasurable experience. In short, I was just reminded why I listen in surround.


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## Luukas

Liszt's "Christus Oratorio" is a great work with memorable melodies. My current favorite is Antal Dorati's sensitive recording (Hungaroton) which is available on CD. But I have listened the only SACD version, as well. Read my comments, please, and tell your opinions. Direct link: http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=4312#comments


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## Luukas

Deutsche Grammophon will release a budget album from their celebrated Sibelius cycle with Neeme Jarvi and the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra. The disc includes Symphonies Nos. 1 & 6 and it is a part of the "Virtuoso" series. One just want to ask: Why? Is it necessary? Firstly the set appeared on individual albums. After that DG re-released it on hybrid multichannel SACD. This pretty nice collection has been unavailable for ages now. Finally the symphony cycle was part of a larger collection which included the tone poems, also. 
Why they want to concentrate to reissues?  These albums are already available. But as we clearly know there are hundreds of unreleased treasures from the past. They are still waiting for their full bloom: "We want to shine!"


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Liszt's "Christus Oratorio" is a great work with memorable melodies. My current favorite is Antal Dorati's sensitive recording (Hungaroton) which is available on CD. But I have listened the only SACD version, as well. Read my comments, please, and tell your opinions. Direct link: http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=4312#comments


Having only heard it years ago, I am not that familiar with this work. But, your review was helpful. You've just saved me a lot of money. I probably would have bought it since I like MDG's SACDs. Such a pity that this one is below par. It's irritating when surround mixes can't get the center channel done right. This is especially disappointing for large orchestral classical recordings that have a 'traditional' front soundstage and ambient-only rear channels.


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## Luukas

I decided to share my review of the Sibelius/Davis RQR album. I listened "En Saga" while ago and it was a terrific experience, indeed.

"THE BEST SIBELIUS ALBUM EVER!
The 4.0 surround sound - commonly called "Quadraphonic system" - was very popular among the artists, producers and engineers during 1969-1981. There were four loudspeakers in each corner of the room. No front centre channel or alternative low-frequency channel (subwoofer). This fine innovation was the first attempt to offer surround sound for the audiophiles. But the whole system was very expensive. And it was almost impossible to reach flawless sound.
Things radically changed in 1999 when Sony and Philips Electronics introduced a Super Audio CD (SACD). Now there was finally a format which supported the 4-channel sound. The Dutch record company Pentatone has re-released nearly 100 quadraphonic recordings from the catalogues of Philips Classics and Deutsche Grammophon.
The symphonies on this disc were recorded in 1975 at the Boston Symphony Hall. The producer was Vittorio Negri which was specialized for this 4-channel surround sound. The whole cycle was originally recorded with 8-channel tapes.
Davis's interpretation of Sibelius's Symphony No. 5 is the best what I have ever heard! His passionately admiration came clear even at the beginning. The gentle sound of the horn lull the listener into the magical world of this work. Everything moved forward without forcing and transitions between harmonies and sections happened in a balanced way. The simplicity of the second movement was never naïve or lazy. Davis's calculation of the finale (8'01") might be stressful for someone. But strangely the atmosphere wasn't restless.
Symphony No. 7 was even better. Simply the most beautiful reading ever! Peaceful, smooth, playful and dramatic. The hymn-like melody of strings was very touching here. And the important melody of the first trombone sounded clearly above the texture.
As a bonus we are able to enjoy symphonic poem "En Saga" Op. 9. This impressive work was recorded five year later in 1980. The producer was Wilhelm Hellweg. Terrific performance with powerful climaxes.
The brand new DSD remastering brought real revelations. Listen to the fresh sound of the cymbals in "En Saga"! Or the sturdy sound of the brass! The original quadraphonic sound didn't increase the surround speakers. A realistic 3-dimensional surround sound, then. Sensational stuff, absolutely. Pentatone, please, PLEASE! Release the rest of Davis's Sibelius cycle on SACD! According to this short whiff the other albums will be terrific listening experiences. I can almost see a swan on the cover and the following text: "JEAN SIBELIUS: SYMPHONIES NOS. 1 & 4, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis, PENTATONE REMASTERED CLASSICS". This could be the first album of the next year's bunch".
- Performance: ***** [Outstanding]
- Recording: ***** (Multichannel)


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## Biwa

I love your enthusiasm, Luukas! 

Davis's Sibelius has long been a favorite of mine, too. Nice review and brief history of Quad. The other day I found one of those Nimbus Records DVD-As... "Surroundyourwith American Classics". It's the only one I have from this series. I'm not sure if I want more from this series. The recordings are from the late 1980s & early 90s. They don't sound bad, but they're not great, either. I assume the source material is 16/44.1. At least the 4.0 DTS and 4.0 MLP mixes are immersive. If you can buy them at super budget prices, then you might try one. But, lower your expectations.


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## Luukas

It is nice to hear that, Biwa!  
My RQR collection will be complete soon. In the future I must place the order with the following albums: 

- Brahms: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Kurt Masur
- Dvorak, Antonin: Symphony No. 9 in E minor "From the New World" & Carnival Overture
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa 
- Haydn, Joseph: Violin Concerto in C major & Sinfonia concertante
Los Angeles Symphony Orchestra, Pinchas Zukerman
- Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Violin Concerto, Serenade melancholy & Bruch, Max: Scottish Fantasy
Arthur Grumiaux
- Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 in B minor "Pathetique" & Nutcracker Suite
Orchestre de Paris, Seiji Ozawa

My wish list includes the Mahler/Haitink album (No. 8) as well as the Beethoven/Masur set (Overtures), also. Berlioz's "Grande messe des morts" is still on the way but I'm waiting it with great excitement.


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## Luukas

Here are my top 5 RQR recommendations (beside the others):
1) Berlioz, Hector: La damnation de Faust
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa
2) Grieg, Edvard: Peer Gynt Suites Nos. 1 & 2 / Four Norwegian Dances Op. 35
English Chamber Orchestra, Raymond Leppard
3) Mendelssohn & Bruch: Violin Concertos
Shlomo Mintz, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Claudio Abbado
4) Paganini, Niccolo: Violin Concertos 
Arthur Grumiaux
5) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Francesca da Rimini & Serenade for Strings
London Symphony Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski

As I mentioned before it would be great to have these to the series: 
View attachment 86103
View attachment 86104

Both albums were recorded in February 1980 and they were analogue recordings. Possibly they were taped quadraphonically but I don't have exact information of that. But this argument is supported by the Bruch/Mendelssohn RQR album (Mintz, CSO, Abbado) which was released in the last year. 
View attachment 86105

This album was the part of those three recording sessions that took place in February of 1980. The producer was same, Rainer Brock. Merely the recording engineer was changed during those days. Hans-Peter Schweigmann worked on with the Vivaldi album, Klaus Hiemann did the others.


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## Luukas

Here are some 4-channel recordings from RCA and Sony: http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/multichannel-surround/pure-audio-bluray.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> I love your enthusiasm, Luukas!
> Davis's Sibelius has long been a favorite of mine, too. Nice review and brief history of Quad. The other day I found one of those Nimbus Records DVD-As... "Surroundyourwith American Classics". It's the only one I have from this series. I'm not sure if I want more from this series. The recordings are from the late 1980s & early 90s. They don't sound bad, but they're not great, either. I assume the source material is 16/44.1. At least the 4.0 DTS and 4.0 MLP mixes are immersive. If you can buy them at super budget prices, then you might try one. But, lower your expectations.


 That was my recollection of those Nimbus discs as well.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Here are my top 5 RQR recommendations (beside the others):
> 1) Berlioz, Hector: La damnation de Faust
> Boston Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa
> 2) Grieg, Edvard: Peer Gynt Suites Nos. 1 & 2 / Four Norwegian Dances Op. 35
> English Chamber Orchestra, Raymond Leppard
> 3) Mendelssohn & Bruch: Violin Concertos
> Shlomo Mintz, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Claudio Abbado
> 4) Paganini, Niccolo: Violin Concertos
> Arthur Grumiaux
> 5) Tchaikovsky, Peter Ilyich: Francesca da Rimini & Serenade for Strings
> London Symphony Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski
> 
> As I mentioned before it would be great to have these to the series:
> View attachment 86103
> View attachment 86104
> 
> Both albums were recorded in February 1980 and they were analogue recordings. Possibly they were taped quadraphonically but I don't have exact information of that. But this argument is supported by the Bruch/Mendelssohn RQR album (Mintz, CSO, Abbado) which was released in the last year.
> View attachment 86105
> 
> This album was the part of those three recording sessions that took place in February of 1980. The producer was same, Rainer Brock. Merely the recording engineer was changed during those days. Hans-Peter Schweigmann worked on with the Vivaldi album, Klaus Hiemann did the others.


 I have or have owned all of those discs, either in mch or 2 channel. The one to avoid is the Schlomo Mintz disc unless you want to hear those two Concertos played as slow and boring as possible. The others are all recommendable.


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## Triplets

What Bruckner recordings in mch? He seems to be underrepresented. For what ever reason Bruckner and Mahler are frequently juxtaposed in comparisons, and Mahler has been excellently served by mch, with multiple SACD and Blu Ray cycles of high quality.
Bruckner multichannel recordings exist, but I haven't heard one yet that really hits the mark.
Bruckner treated the Orchestra like an Organ, with many exciting organ like effects. The reverberations of the recording venues are also an intrinisc part of the Bruckner experience and one reason that I so dislike hearing Bruckner in mp3 sound, which tends to leave all ambience out of recordings.
The best Bruckner multichannel recordings that I have heard are Bohm's 4th, remastered in Blu Ray, and Simone Young and the Hamburg Orchestra 7th, on the Oehms label. Ihaven't cared much for the other Young/hamburg rcordings that I own, which all sound impressive but seem to miss the mark as performances. 
Marrek Jankowski recorded the Bruckner cycle on Pentatone, with the Suisse Romande Orchestra. i really enjoyed Jankowski and Pittsburgh on Pentatone in Brahms, but I find the Conductor is less successful in Bruckner. He doesn't seem to think that Bruckner ever believed in rubato and tends to play very literally, missing many of the great emotional opportunities that so abound in the Bruckner of Wand, Furtwangler, and Karajan. The Orchestra thankfully has improved from the days of Ansermet but doesn't really compare with the likes of Chicago/Vienna/Berlin etc.
I'm still waiting for a top notch Bruckner multichannel cycle.


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## Luukas

In my view Mintz's approach is very beautiful. It was never boring, actually. I especially liked the slow movements. He enjoyed the every phrase. The mch sound was very clear and clean.


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> In my view Mintz's approach is very beautiful. It was never boring, actually. I especially liked the slow movements. He enjoyed the every phrase. The mch sound was very clear and clean.


we'll have to agree to disagree about that one Luukas--what you hear as "enjoyed the every phrase" sounds to my ears like milking them each to death until the forward progress of the music dissapers.


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## Triplets

OK, I'm listening to Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony now, Andre Previn and the LSO on a two channel reissue from the 70s. If ever a piece deserved a multichannel treatment, this one does. I understand that an Ozawa Toronto recording is out there but am not sure if it was recorded originally in quad or if it is being remixed for multichannel. Anyone with a recommendation? I'm sorry if this was mentioned previously upthread.


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## Biwa

Previn's 1978 recording has been released in 4.0 on DVD-A. Highly recommended!
There are some new & used copies at not too expensive prices.

https://www.amazon.com/Messiaen-Turangalila-Symphonie/dp/B00005B8A6

Review...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Nov02/OlivierMessaienTurSym.htm


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> View attachment 86118
> 
> 
> Previn's 1978 recording has been released in 4.0 on DVD-A. Highly recommended!
> There are some new & used copies at not too expensive prices.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Messiaen-Turangalila-Symphonie/dp/B00005B8A6
> 
> There is an SACD version--Lintu and a Helsinki Orchestra, favorably reviewed by David Hurwitz, at less than half the price ofthe Previn DVD-A


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## Luukas

Yes, I have heard that one. Superb surround sound and colorful performance. Essential listening, indeed. 
There is also a SACD version of Chailly's recording (Decca) but its price is very expensive.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> What Bruckner recordings in mch? He seems to be underrepresented. For what ever reason Bruckner and Mahler are frequently juxtaposed in comparisons, and Mahler has been excellently served by mch, with multiple SACD and Blu Ray cycles of high quality.
> Bruckner multichannel recordings exist, but I haven't heard one yet that really hits the mark.
> Bruckner treated the Orchestra like an Organ, with many exciting organ like effects. The reverberations of the recording venues are also an intrinisc part of the Bruckner experience and one reason that I so dislike hearing Bruckner in mp3 sound, which tends to leave all ambience out of recordings.
> The best Bruckner multichannel recordings that I have heard are Bohm's 4th, remastered in Blu Ray, and Simone Young and the Hamburg Orchestra 7th, on the Oehms label. Ihaven't cared much for the other Young/hamburg rcordings that I own, which all sound impressive but seem to miss the mark as performances.
> Marrek Jankowski recorded the Bruckner cycle on Pentatone, with the Suisse Romande Orchestra. i really enjoyed Jankowski and Pittsburgh on Pentatone in Brahms, but I find the Conductor is less successful in Bruckner. He doesn't seem to think that Bruckner ever believed in rubato and tends to play very literally, missing many of the great emotional opportunities that so abound in the Bruckner of Wand, Furtwangler, and Karajan. The Orchestra thankfully has improved from the days of Ansermet but doesn't really compare with the likes of Chicago/Vienna/Berlin etc.
> I'm still waiting for a top notch Bruckner multichannel cycle.


Have you listened to the Bruckner cycle by the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig conducted Herbert Blomstedt?

Try them individually, such as the 7th... http://www.allmusic.com/album/bruckner-sinfonie-nr-7-e-dur-mw0001865161









Or... There is also a box set.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=976869


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## Luukas

Yesterday I listened the 12th Concerto from the Mozart/Brendel RQR album. It was a lovely performance with charming quadraphonic sound. More Mozart from this team, please! In the evening I submitted the Bizet/Marriner RQR album to Discogs. I am going to expand their catalogue soon with the other 4-channel releases, as well.


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## Biwa

I see you're making the rounds...spreading the gospel 4.0.  Although not solely classical, QQ is also a great place.

I can't wait to hear the Mozart/Brendal RQR.

Ars Produktion also has some amazing surround recordings. Now listening to "Bolero Night" by Die 12 Pianisten

http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=3138#reviews









This ensemble's Pictures at an Exhibition is spectacular, too!


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## Luukas

Guys, I have been quite sceptical with modern classical music. But I just found Alfred Schnittke. His work are very interesting! In last spring I played his "Suite in Old Style" with pianist Esa Ylönen. Couple of years ago I heard his " Kein Sommernachtstraum" in the concert (Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Manfred Honeck, Helsinki Music Centre). And today I listened his orchestral work "In memoriam".
Few years ago PENTATONE released the first SACD of Schnittke's 3rd Symphony with Vladimir Jurowski. Who knows, perhaps the album was launch of the new hi-res Schnittke cycle. BIS and Chandos have released quite outstanding ones on RBCD. I especially like the 2nd Symphony. 
Are there any 4-channel Schnittke recordings?


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## Biwa

I am a big fan of modern music including the works of Schnittke. I think you're asking if there are any old Quad recordings of his music. I don't know of any off hand. Have you listened to the PentaTone's MCH SACD of the 3rd Symphony conducted by Jurowski? How is it? 

Here are some MCH SACDs of his music that I like. 

Schnittke: Film Music Vol. 1-4 - Strobel
Schnittke: Chamber Music - Janacek Trio
Schnittke: The Piano Concertos - Ewa Kupiec, Frank Strobel
Schnittke: Complete Piano Sonatas - Igor Tchetuev
Schnittke: Zwölf Bußverse, Stimmen der Natur - Creed
Baltic Voices 2 - Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir/Paul Hillier (includes Schnittke's Three Sacred Hymns)


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## Luukas

I haven't heard it in mch, only in stereo with my headphones. But the quality of the recording is outstanding in its clarity. Electric guitar, piano and a huge organ are all purely audible. You should listen the entire album. This SACD list looks very interesting! Perhaps I will purchase the Piano Concertos in the future.


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## Biwa

There is a lot more fantastic modern classical music out there. I am not sure what you're into exactly, but NEOS Classics has an excellent 5 volume series of Bruno Maderna's complete works for orchestra conducted by Arturo Tamayo on MCH SACDs.

A good place to start might be Vol. 4 - Bruno Maderna: Quadrivium, Aura, Amanda, Giardino religioso


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Have you listened to the Bruckner cycle by the Gewandhausorchester Leipzig conducted Herbert Blomstedt?
> 
> Try them individually, such as the 7th... http://www.allmusic.com/album/bruckner-sinfonie-nr-7-e-dur-mw0001865161
> 
> View attachment 86121
> 
> 
> Or... There is also a box set.
> 
> http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=976869
> 
> View attachment 86122


 I haven't heard any of these Blomstedt recordings. I admire the Conductor generally, and have his Beethoven, Schubert, and both of his Nielsen cycles, but the reviews for these Bruckner recordings were rather mixed. It should be noted that Blomstedt is pushing 90 years of age and some of the reviewers were opining that the work was unfocused and rambling


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Yesterday I listened the 12th Concerto from the Mozart/Brendel RQR album. It was a lovely performance with charming quadraphonic sound. More Mozart from this team, please! In the evening I submitted the Bizet/Marriner RQR album to Discogs. I am going to expand their catalogue soon with the other 4-channel releases, as well.


 You should sample the complete Mozart PC cycle on MDG. Not only are the recordings the most natural sounding that I have ever heard, but the performances rival any others, including the classic Casadesus/Szell set


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I haven't heard it in mch, only in stereo with my headphones. But the quality of the recording is outstanding in its clarity. Electric guitar, piano and a huge organ are all purely audible. You should listen the entire album. This SACD list looks very interesting! Perhaps I will purchase the Piano Concertos in the future.


 "Stereo thru headphones" is a misnomer. That isn't true stereo, where the signal from two sources are meant to be merged. It's more like dual mono in each ear.


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## Luukas

I just listened the 4th Violin Concerto of Schnittke. A real masterpiece in the style of Bach and Prokofiev. Suddenly those styles collapsed into chaos. Schnittke clearly loved this effect because it can be heard in his most works. I have found a door to the new music world! And it is very fascinating one, indeed. Oh yeah!


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## Luukas

Have you noticed the Summer Sale of PENTATONE? They offer 20% on entire catalogue. Codeword: summer2016. This is a great opportunity to receive many RQR albums economically.  I'm going to order the Ravel/Haitink and the Beethoven/Grumiaux (Remastered Classics) albums, at least.


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## Biwa

Thanks for the heads up on PentaTone's sale.

Actually, I just got back from the music shop. They've got a sale going on this weekend, too. Among other discs, I picked up Joseph Haydn's Symphony No. 31 in D major, Hob. I:31, "Hornsignal"; Symphony No. 70 in D major, Hob. I:70; and Symphony No. 101 in D major, Hob. I:101, "The Clock" superbly performed by Robin Ticciati and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Linn's MCH recording is excellent. Warmly recommended.


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## Biwa

Here's some music of the spheres. http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/1/12078334/nasa-juno-mission-jupiter-magnetic-field-listen-sound

Sounds a bit modern to me, Luukas. Maybe there is something deeper to it after all. :angel:









Speaking of modern classical music, Liza Ferschtman's violin recital on Challenge Classics offers some amazing playing of both old and new works for solo violin. Beautiful MCH recording. Here's a review...

http://www.amati.com/magazine/148-c...view-biber-bart-k-berio-bach-liza-ferschtman/


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## Biwa

I found the SACD of Bernstein's M5 yesterday at my local shop. It is a beautiful 3-ch recording, Luukas. The rears are only ambient, but the DSD remastering sounds incredible. It would be wonderful if they were all put together and released on a BD-A, like the Karajan's 1960s cycle of Beethoven symphonies.









https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-...words=Beethoven:+9+Symphonien+[Blu-ray+Audio]

9 symphonies in Hirez on one disc for $20!!!


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## Luukas

Biwa, you are right. The BD-A would be fascinating but I don't think that they are going to release it. You were lucky with the recording: the direct orders from Japan are always quite expensive. Perhaps the shipping costs and packaging are the reasons for that. As I mentioned before I have considered to purchase the most popular albums only. The Bernstein/Sony Mahler cycle has been the clear first choice for many. Lenny's later retake for Grammophon was too slow, I think. Still my personal favorites are 2 & 3.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> View attachment 86250
> 
> 
> I found the SACD of Bernstein's M5 yesterday at my local shop. It is a beautiful 3-ch recording, Luukas. The rears are only ambient, but the DSD remastering sounds incredible. It would be wonderful if they were all put together and released on a BD-A, like the Karajan's 1960s cycle of Beethoven symphonies.
> 
> View attachment 86251
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-...words=Beethoven:+9+Symphonien+[Blu-ray+Audio]
> 
> 9 symphonies in Hirez on one disc for $20!!!


I have to stop posting here. I just ordered the Karajan.
Just finished listening to Vanska /Minnesota Beethoven 6. This would be a great recording in any format but the SACD sound makes it so perfect!
Been listening a lot to the 2 channel Bernstein Vienna Mahler 5. Not sure if that was ever multichanneked.


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## Luukas

Speaking about Beethoven the latest addition to the Remastered Classics (Violin Sonatas, Grumiaux & Arrau) will be great stuff. I played the first movement of the Violin Sonata No. 1 in 2015. My future chamber music program will include the "Spring" Sonata as well which means that I have played the both works of the album. It's a funny thing.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> *I have to stop posting here.* I just ordered the Karajan.
> Just finished listening to Vanska /Minnesota Beethoven 6. This would be a great recording in any format but the SACD sound makes it so perfect!
> Been listening a lot to the 2 channel Bernstein Vienna Mahler 5. Not sure if that was ever multichanneked.


Oh, we'll have none of that kind of talk on this thread. LOL!  
Yes, Vänskä / Beethoven is a wonderful cycle. We are most fortunate that BIS did the MCH recording.

I got my Chicago Quadio BD-A box set today. Rhino has done a simply amazing job with this set. Not quite as cheap as the Karajan Beethoven BD-A, but still a bargain. It can be purchased for around $100 from amazon.ca or amazon.it or other sites, such as Deepdiscount, Importcds, etc...

Here's a review...
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Chicago-Quadio-Blu-ray/155246/#Review


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## Luukas

I found these SACDs at the local record shop:

- Saint-Saëns, Camille: Cello Concertos Nos. 1 & 2, The Carnival of the Animals, Wedding Cake, Africa
Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra, Neeme Järvi (Chandos)
- Sibelius, Jean: Kullervo, Op. 7
Soile Isokoski (soprano), Tommi Hakala (baritone), YL Male Choir, Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam (Ondine)

I'm excited...


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## Vaneyes

No MCH love here for Paavo Jarvi's LvB?

FWIW...

http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4589


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## Biwa

Vaneyes said:


> No MCH love here for Paavo Jarvi's LvB?
> 
> FWIW...
> 
> http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/4589


Oh yeah! I LOVE these SACDs.:kiss: Järvi's lean and mean approach blows the cobwebs off of these symphonies. Good sound, too. Beethoven and Mahler's symphonies are well represented in MCH on SACD. And recently DG released a MCH Bluray Audio box set of Beethoven's symphonies with Rattle & the Berliners. I haven't listened to that one yet...(kind of overloaded with the symphonies of these 2 composers...if you know what I mean.) but I've read some positive reviews about it.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I found these SACDs at the local record shop:
> 
> - Saint-Saëns, Camille: Cello Concertos Nos. 1 & 2, The Carnival of the Animals, Wedding Cake, Africa
> Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra, Neeme Järvi (Chandos)
> - Sibelius, Jean: Kullervo, Op. 7
> Soile Isokoski (soprano), Tommi Hakala (baritone), YL Male Choir, Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam (Ondine)
> 
> I'm excited...


I haven't heard that Saint-Saens cello concerto recording yet. The stereo mix caused a little stir with the usual suspects over at HRaudio.  I'm sure John got the MCH part of it right in his review. It would nice to hear your opinion of it, though.

I've got that Kullervo disc somewhere. I haven't played it in a while. I'll have to give it a spin and feel the cool Sibelian wind during one of these hot summer days. But... at the moment, I'm completely absorbed with the Windy City... Chicago Quadio.


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## Luukas

Before his retirement as a conductor Otto Klemperer made his last recordings for Emi between 1970-1971. Were they taped with quadraphonic technology? As we know this new innovation lived its gold days in those days.


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## Biwa

Good question, but I haven't heard of any Quad recording of Klemperer's performances. That would be incredible! 

It is a shame that the Quad recordings of Kempe's Beethoven symphonies with The Munich Philharmonic Orchestra have not been released on SACD. Instead we got an overpriced 2-ch stereo SACD box set from Esoteric.   
Those Quad treasures would be a prime candidate for a Bluray Audio release, similar to Karajan's 1960s cycle.


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## Luukas

It was Berglund who recorded the "Kullervo Symphony" of Sibelius for the first time. This was in the beginning of the 70s. According to surrounddiscography.com this wasn't a quadraphonic recording. And Emi released the album on 2-channel vinyl. Was it a 4-channel recording? This could be possible because most of the Berglund/Bournemouth Sibelius analogue recordings were quad productions.


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## Biwa

That would be another incredible Quad discovery, Luukas.

After hearing Pletnev perform Scriabin's piano concerto live last week, I've been yearning for some more of this composer's lovely music. Today I picked up Pletnev / Scriabin - symphony no.1 & The Poem of Ecstasy. It's a wonderful release by PentaTone.









Btw, HDTT is having a 20% off sale... http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/multichannel-surround


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## Luukas

OOH! Here is the discussion between me and PENTATONE in LinkedIn:

My post: "My pre-orders (Remastered Classics Series) arrived few weeks ago. Top-notch performances with realistic quadraphonic sound. Vittorio Negri produced the Bizet album and he did a magnificent job. The sound field was almost three-dimensional because the rear speakers were used only for the ambience. The same way linked to the Mozart(/Brendel) album. The spacious acoustics of the Brent Town Hall was impressively captured in 4-channel sound. You can only hope that this revelatory series will continue in 2017".

The answer: "Hi Luukas. *Yes, next year more exciting titles. *". Hurrah!


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## Luukas

The Berlioz/Gergiev album (Roméo et Juliette) arrived today.

Here is the review: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11654#comments


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## Triplets

Listening to the Tacet Blu Ray of the Schubert String Quintet right now...another winner for the Label and the Auryn Qt.
Sigh. If only more people would demand great Multichannel recordings...the technology is there...


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## Triplets

The Karajan just arrived. Listening in 2 channel now.


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Listening to the Tacet Blu Ray of the Schubert String Quintet right now...another winner for the Label and the Auryn Qt.
> Sigh. If only more people would demand great Multichannel recordings...the technology is there...


Quit expensive and very limited catalogue perhaps? I do love Renée Fleming, so even if I want to .......see my point?


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Quit expensive and very limited catalogue perhaps? I do love Renée Fleming, so even if I want to .......see my point?


I'm afraid that's not very good logic, Pugg. 

A nice surround system can be purchased at a reasonable price. I'm talking only hundreds... NOT thousands of dollars. Compared to what everyone is spending on updating to get the latest Smartphones, tablets, etc..., a surround audio system is a bargain and can be used for many years.

And, just because I have 5 speakers doesn't mean I can't listen to regular 2-channel stereo CDs. I have thousands of CDs and still get much enjoyment from them. Having 5.1 speakers means I can ALSO listen to THOUSANDS of excellent hi-solution surround recordings by leading artists and music labels. So... 
WHY would I limit myself to ONLY stereo CDs!!??

Btw, Renée Fleming has released surround SACDs.


----------



## Pugg

Biwa said:


> I'm afraid that's not very good logic, Pugg.
> 
> A nice surround system can be purchased at a reasonable price. I'm talking only hundreds... NOT thousands of dollars. Compared to what everyone is spending on updating to get the latest Smartphones, tablets, etc..., a surround audio system is a bargain and can be used for many years.
> 
> And, just because I have 5 speakers doesn't mean I can't listen to regular 2-channel stereo CDs. I have thousands of CDs and still get much enjoyment from them. Having 5.1 speakers means I can ALSO listen to THOUSANDS of excellent hi-solution surround recordings by leading artists and music labels. So...
> WHY would I limit myself to ONLY stereo CDs!!??
> 
> Btw, Renée Fleming has released surround SACDs.
> 
> View attachment 86538
> View attachment 86539


I_ never suggest you should do that_, only saying that the fast majority are happy with a good stereo, for me personally I get nervous with al those speakers.
I have a friend/ acquaintance who bought a set for around €400.00 ( all together) it's like a disco.

The two Flemings you mentioned I have, she made about 50 in total......

Besides that, the last Sudbin CD ( Scarlatti) sells 50 to 1 in my county (according to my supplier)


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> I_ never suggest you should do that_, only saying that the fast majority are happy with a good stereo, for me personally I get nervous with al those speakers.
> Besides that, the last Sudbin CD ( Scarlatti) sells 50 to 1 in my county (according to my supplier)


I was just pointing out those common misperceptions that you mentioned are simply that... misperceptions!

No offense, but I get tired of seeing people (who have no experience with surround audio) use false information to put down a very very good thing. You also mention BIS's Sudbin recording. Robert von Bahr, the founder & CEO of BIS records, is an avid supporter of 5.0 surround Hirez audio. Now, I ask you... Whose opinion should I put more stock in... Mr. von Bahr's of BIS records or some supplier's?


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Listening to the Tacet Blu Ray of the Schubert String Quintet right now...another winner for the Label and the Auryn Qt.
> Sigh. If only more people would demand great Multichannel recordings...the technology is there...


I know exactly how you feel. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Sometimes I wonder if it's simply because... among the 5 senses, hearing (sound) isn't so important for most folks. Sight and taste seem to take priority. People want big screen Hi-def TVs and delicious food & drink. But with sound, smell, and touch adequate is good enough. Go figure! 

Btw, I love that Tacet surround recording of Auryn's Schubert Quintet. Fantastic! :cheers:


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## Luukas

Guys, the Strauss/Mackerras Membran SACD arrived today, I'll listen to it later today.
The Berlioz/Gergiev album (Roméo et Juliette) is great stuff. The rear speakers adds more concert hall ambience than usually with this label. And many movements - especially the famous "Queen Scherzo" (Prestissimo) - are magical listening experiences. You can only hope that LSO Live will release the rest of Gergiev's Berlioz series (La damnation de Faust & The Childhood of Christ) on Super Audio CD.
It was a great relief to hear that there will be more exciting titles in Pentatone's "Remastered Classics Series" in the next year. As I mentioned before these "exciting titles" could be the unreleased 4-channel productions of Thomas Mowrey (Deutsche Grammophon reissues) and Vittorio Negri (Philips Classics reissues). But of course the other producers as well - Wilhelm Hellweg, Bernd Ruge, Rainer Brock and Karl Faust, for example - were excited in this new technology.


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## Biwa

Béla Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra, Dance Suite, Hungarian Peasant Songs

Hungarian National Philharmonic Orchestra
Zoltán Kocsis (conductor)

This SACD has both an incredibly realistic surround mix and superb performances of these pieces.


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## Luukas

I have greatly enjoyed to listen the Saint-Saëns/Mussorgsky RQR album. Waart's other 4-channel recording (Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 2 & Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio espagnol) looks interesting. But the reviews of the album are not very positive. Allmusic.com. gave 9/10 but HRAudio.net just three stars and MusicWeb-International recommended to avoid the disc. What do you think? Is it worth to order the album? I need your help. Jansons's recent recording (RCO Live) is on my wish list.


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I have greatly enjoyed to listen the Saint-Saëns/Mussorgsky RQR album. Waart's other 4-channel recording (Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 2 & Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio espagnol) looks interesting. But the reviews of the album are not very positive. Allmusic.com. gave 9/10 but HRAudio.net just three stars and MusicWeb-International recommended to avoid the disc. What do you think? Is it worth to order the album? I need your help. Jansons's recent recording (RCO Live) is on my wish list.


I don't have that RQR of Waart/Rachmaninov. But, the reviews on Amazon weren't very good, either. I suppose it's safe to say that your money would be better spent elsewhere. Having said that, I've bought recordings with poor reviews and liked them a lot. Who can say what will sound good to you? If you find this title intriguing and want to listen to it, why not wait until you can get a discount on it? Bargains usually turn up sooner or later.

A few weeks ago, on a whim I picked up "An Evening with Leopold Stokowski" performed by the Brussels Philharmonic and conducted by Richard Egarr. I've been playing it constantly!!! They give terrific performances of these orchestral arrangements by Leopold Stokowski. The program mostly consists of Baroque and even a couple Renaissance gems. Bach's Toccata & Fuge in D minor is fantastic. And... The MCH recording has a wonderfully DEEP soundstage. WARMLY RECOMMENDED!!!


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## Luukas

View attachment 86720

I just purchased this Ravel/Haitink RQR album. My collection expands comfortably... 
Michael Cookson praised the disc at MusicWeb-International. He wrote: "With excellent performances and superb sound quality I would not be too displeased to have this disc as my only representation for these Ravel scores". And ClassicalCDReview described it as follows: "Pentatone's issue of Ravel offers recordings made in September 1971. Volker Straus was Philips' choice for many years as producer of Concertgebouw recordings, and seldom did he succeed in capturing what to me is the "true Concertgebouw sound." There's no question that the four-channels open up the sound picture considerably". 
Well, I am happy that I placed my order.


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## Luukas

Some days ago I listened the Schumann/Inbal RQR album. Simply impressive listening experience! Powerful performances, clear and punchy multichannel recording. This makes me wish the rest of this 1970-71 Schumann cycle on SACD. It looks quite realistic that the symphonies nos. 2 & 4 were 4-channel recordings. Maybe in the next year, we'll see...


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## Triplets

Listened to the Tacet Auryn Qt recording of the Haydn Op.76 Quartets last night. It appears as though they have recorded the complete Haydn Quartets


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> View attachment 86720
> 
> I just purchased this Ravel/Haitink RQR album. My collection expands comfortably...
> Michael Cookson praised the disc at MusicWeb-International. He wrote: "With excellent performances and superb sound quality I would not be too displeased to have this disc as my only representation for these Ravel scores". And ClassicalCDReview described it as follows: "Pentatone's issue of Ravel offers recordings made in September 1971. Volker Straus was Philips' choice for many years as producer of Concertgebouw recordings, and seldom did he succeed in capturing what to me is the "true Concertgebouw sound." There's no question that the four-channels open up the sound picture considerably".
> Well, I am happy that I placed my order.


One can never have enough Ravel and this vintage Quad recording of Haitink & Concertgebouw is a keeper! His later recording with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra had a production error on the MCH layer. CSO fixed the problem and reissued corrected SACDs. I haven't gotten that one, but I read that it is also a wonderful performance.









Another beautiful Quad recording of Ravel's music is the 1975 VOX recording performed by the Minnesota Orchestra & Stanislaw Skrowaczewski (conductor). It was reissued on SACD by MoFi (who REALLY need to get back into the MCH business!!!)


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Some days ago I listened the Schumann/Inbal RQR album. Simply impressive listening experience! Powerful performances, clear and punchy multichannel recording. This makes me wish the rest of this 1970-71 Schumann cycle on SACD. It looks quite realistic that the symphonies nos. 2 & 4 were 4-channel recordings. Maybe in the next year, we'll see...


I enjoyed that Schumann/Inbal RQR as well. Let's hope there are Quad recordings of symphonies 2 & 4 in the RQR pipeline! Speaking of Schumann, last week I picked up these excellent performances of his symphonies by Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic & Michael Schønwandt. These symphonies are well suited to a smaller ensemble. Challenge Classics MCH recording is up to their usual high standards.









Another highly recommended release from this ensemble & the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra on Challenge Classics is...

Karl Amadeus Hartmann: Symphonies 1 - 8.


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Listened to the Tacet Auryn Qt recording of the Haydn Op.76 Quartets last night. It appears as though they have recorded the complete Haydn Quartets


Yes, the Auryn quartet recorded all of Haydn's quartets for Tacet. There is heaven on earth. How lucky we are! I am slowly but steadily acquiring them all. Keep an eye on these. Good deals can be found on TACET's BD-As & DVD-As.


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## Luukas

I just bought the following DVD-A from the catalogue of Silverline Classics:
View attachment 86797
View attachment 86798

It has received a status of classic. Abravanel's interpretation (48"57') is _really_ fast. In addition there is a 5.1 surround sound (96-kHz/24-bit). I'm looking forward to hear the album.


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I just bought the following DVD-A from the catalogue of Silverline Classics:
> View attachment 86797
> View attachment 86798
> 
> It has received a status of classic. Abravanel's interpretation (48"57') is _really_ fast. In addition there is a 5.1 surround sound (96-kHz/24-bit). I'm looking forward to hear the album.


I have all the Abravanel DVD Audio discs. That is a very good First.


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## Luukas

Triplets, are these Abravanel DVD-A discs worth of their prices?
1) Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection"
2) Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 3 in A minor
3) Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1-7 (three albums)


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Triplets, are these Abravanel DVD-A discs worth of their prices?
> 1) Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection"
> 2) Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 3 in A minor
> 3) Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1-7 (three albums)


I haven't seen what prices they are going for. I bought them several years ago, after DVD -A was a bust, and they were less than $8.00/disc. I wouldn't pay extortionate prices for them. I don't have the Rach disc, because I don't like the piece. Abravanel Sibelius is somewhat uneven; most of it is enjoyable but 5&7 I remember being somewhat perfunctory. Otoh hand there are not many multichannel Sibelius options. The Mahler Resurrection is good but a bit disappointing sonically in the really big dramatic movements and there are many good multichannel options in that piece


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## Luukas

Ok, thanks! But I will collect the entire series, anyway.


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## Luukas

Wow! This really will be something! Another MCH SACD of Berlioz's "Romeo and Juliet!" I'm so excited! 
View attachment 86904


----------



## Biwa

Looks great, Luukas!

I also see "Weber: Der Freischütz - Kleiber" will be released in stereo on a single layer SACD.

Getting back to Chandos's MCH recordings, their series of Weinberg's music is excellent. 
Now listening to... http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=6455#reviews


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## Pugg

Louis Spohr (1784-1859) 
Symphonien Nr.1-10 (Sämtliche Symphonien)
NDR Radiophilharmonie, Howard Griffiths
5 Super Audio CDs

Just a tip , only €29.99


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Louis Spohr (1784-1859)
> Symphonien Nr.1-10 (Sämtliche Symphonien)
> NDR Radiophilharmonie, Howard Griffiths
> 5 Super Audio CDs
> 
> Just a tip , only €29.99


Thanks for the heads up, Pugg!

I can second this recommendation. I got these discs individually. 
CPO did a great job with these recordings by Griffiths / NDR.


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## Pugg

Biwa said:


> Thanks for the heads up, Pugg!
> 
> I can second this recommendation. I got these discs individually.
> CPO did a great job with these recordings by Griffiths / NDR.


Me too, cost a lot more


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## Luukas

I'm just listening to this:
View attachment 86963

Magnificent album from the early days of quadro! My current favorite, definitely. The geniuses at Polyhymnia have done a superb job with the original master tapes. Limpid sound of the 1-bit DSD reveals the all details of this cinematic opera production.

Thomas Mowrey told some interesting backgrounds of the recording at Sa-cd.net about one year ago: "_Klaus Hiemann, the sound engineer, and I created four stereo submixes during recording, which were recorded on eight-track, one-inch Scotch 202 tape. After several weeks of editing in DG's dedicated control room in the basement of Symphony Hall, I made simultaneous final quad and stereo mixes there myself, with the assistance of two excellent young recording engineers, the late Joachim Niss and Gernot Westhäuser (the latter went on to have a great career as chief sound engineer for Unitel and is now enjoying his retirement).
In addition to the effects mentioned by Mr. Williams and Luukas, my favorites were the three sudden, lightning-bolt, three-note bursts in the brass announcing the materialization of Mephisto on the scene, and the ride into hell and arrival there, when Mephisto sing-shouts "Il est à nous!", Faust screams "Horreur!", and Mephisto cries "Je suis vainqueur!" During the Pandemonium scene which ensues, I tweaked the equalizer up to +10 @10khz on the chorus tracks to bring out the sibilants in the words "Has! Has! Satan!" sung by the Chorus of Demons and the Damned. That and all of the other effects that we created 40-some years ago are intact on all layers of the PentaTone SACDs_".

I noticed that "Freischutz" too, Biwa. I'm waiting for to see it as a part of this series. "The first quadraphonic recording (4 tracks) took place with mobile equipment in Boston with Michael Tilson Thomas, followed by the first 8 track (8 channels) opera production with Carlos Kleiber in 1973 (Weber: Der Freischütz)". (Wikipedia, Emil Berliner Studios). Oh, it is such a painful thing to wait and wait...


----------



## Luukas

I bought the following SACDs at the local record shop:
View attachment 87227
View attachment 87228
View attachment 87229
View attachment 87230


And, the latest addition to the Remastered Classics is available for pre-order! Hurray! 
View attachment 87231

Here is the direct link: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/rc-beethoven-bruch-violin-concertos-accardo-masur-gewandhausorchester-leipzig


----------



## Pugg

Luukas said:


> I bought the following SACDs at the local record shop:
> View attachment 87230
> 
> 
> And, the latest addition to the Remastered Classics is available for pre-order! Hurray!
> [


This one is _out of this world_ , beautiful played and recorded.


----------



## Biwa

Nice haul, Luukas!

Those Rautavaara discs are wonderful, too! 

And I couldn't agree more on the Berlioz - Faust Quad recording... Truly magnificent!


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> I'm just listening to this:
> View attachment 86963
> 
> Magnificent album from the early days of quadro! My current favorite, definitely. The geniuses at Polyhymnia have done a superb job with the original master tapes. Limpid sound of the 1-bit DSD reveals the all details of this cinematic opera production.
> 
> Thomas Mowrey told some interesting backgrounds of the recording at Sa-cd.net about one year ago: "_Klaus Hiemann, the sound engineer, and I created four stereo submixes during recording, which were recorded on eight-track, one-inch Scotch 202 tape. After several weeks of editing in DG's dedicated control room in the basement of Symphony Hall, I made simultaneous final quad and stereo mixes there myself, with the assistance of two excellent young recording engineers, the late Joachim Niss and Gernot Westhäuser (the latter went on to have a great career as chief sound engineer for Unitel and is now enjoying his retirement).
> In addition to the effects mentioned by Mr. Williams and Luukas, my favorites were the three sudden, lightning-bolt, three-note bursts in the brass announcing the materialization of Mephisto on the scene, and the ride into hell and arrival there, when Mephisto sing-shouts "Il est à nous!", Faust screams "Horreur!", and Mephisto cries "Je suis vainqueur!" During the Pandemonium scene which ensues, I tweaked the equalizer up to +10 @10khz on the chorus tracks to bring out the sibilants in the words "Has! Has! Satan!" sung by the Chorus of Demons and the Damned. That and all of the other effects that we created 40-some years ago are intact on all layers of the PentaTone SACDs_".
> 
> I noticed that "Freischutz" too, Biwa. I'm waiting for to see it as a part of this series. "The first quadraphonic recording (4 tracks) took place with mobile equipment in Boston with Michael Tilson Thomas, followed by the first 8 track (8 channels) opera production with Carlos Kleiber in 1973 (Weber: Der Freischütz)". (Wikipedia, Emil Berliner Studios). Oh, it is such a painful thing to wait and wait...


Great story, Lukas


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## Triplets

I've ordered the Beethoven Symphony set on Tacet that is due to be released soon. It is with a Polish Chamber Orchestra and Conductor that are unknown to me and it's expensive but I have been enthralled by some of the Tacet recordings that I have extolled on this thread and so I can't wait


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## Luukas

It is time to feel the earthquake!  Few hours ago I purchased this SACD: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2397. Telarc has told at the liner notes that their SACD productions always contains a full 5.1 surround sound. And the additional 0.1 channel has recorded about +6dB louder than the other channels. Well, the bass drum of the orchestra will shake the walls of the rooms... 

PS. Michael Tilson Thomas's quadraphonic recording with Boston Symphony Orchestra is my other recommendation (Pentatone, Remastered Classics). The rear speakers are active and therefore they adds a great 3-dimensional effect. Actually the recording should be understood as 4.1 because the subwoofer switched on during the "Dance of young girls" (track 5).


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## Pugg

Lukaas, did Telarc ever released the Johan Strauss discs, as well as the William Tell overture with other show pieces?


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## Luukas

No, if I remember correctly. Their "Never-Ending Waltz" SACD as well as "Ballet Favorites" includes some works of Johann Strauss. But "Russian Nights" album (Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Erich Kunzel) contains many showpieces.

If you mean the RBCD releases there are numerous discs available, for example "William Tell and other overtures".


----------



## Pugg

Thanks, that Strauss disc are such fun ( normally) special effects, like to hear that in special sound.


----------



## Luukas

Do you have any information about the existence of Telarc? They haven't released new albums recently, especially SACDs.


----------



## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Do you have any information about the existence of Telarc? They haven't released new albums recently, especially SACDs.


No I have not,sorry, they do very little as far as I know, that's why I follow this thread as you are the expert .:tiphat:


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## Luukas

There will be an interesting addition to Litton's ongoing Prokofiev symphony cycle for BIS: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11695. It is great to have the Symphony No. 7 on SACD. Above all, there is the complete finale with alternative ending. Unusual choice, I think.


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## Triplets

Telarc is out of business


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Telarc is out of business


Oh, now I understand! What a pity! Few years ago Telarc released a guitar CD what included the music of Albéníz. Their SACD albums were quite impressive, in my view. The Stravinsky/Jarvi SACD - which is still on the way - may be my "the tribute purchase" for their achievements. This is strange, really.


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> There will be an interesting addition to Litton's ongoing Prokofiev symphony cycle for BIS: http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=11695. It is great to have the Symphony No. 7 on SACD. Above all, there is the complete finale with alternative ending. Unusual choice, I think.


I enjoyed Litton's 5th. The only other Prok symphony that I care for is the Classical


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> I enjoyed Litton's 5th. The only other Prok symphony that I care for is the Classical


Yes, I agree. It is a delightful piece in the style of Mozart and Haydn. Marin Alsop has made a good recording for Naxos with Saõ Paolo Symphony Orchestra. The album is available on CD and BD-A. Perhaps the next Litton/BergenPO installment brings together the Symphonies Nos. 1-3 of the composer.


----------



## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Telarc is out of business


Shame, the had some nice artist.


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## Luukas

I just bought the Beethoven/Bruch RC album. It was a pre-order, naturally. Looking forward to hear it...


----------



## Biwa

Recently I've been having fun with "Marine Band of the Royal Netherlands Navy plays Sammy Nestico" from the Aliud label. The music is Big Band style jazz. The performance is tight and full of energy. The surround recording is deep with terrific sonics.

Here's an in depth review...http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10510#reviews


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## Pugg

Biwa said:


> View attachment 87827
> 
> 
> Recently I've been having fun with "Marine Band of the Royal Netherlands Navy plays Sammy Nestico" from the Aliud label. The music is Big Band style jazz. The performance is tight and full of energy. The surround recording is deep with terrific sonics.
> 
> Here's an in depth review...http://hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=10510#reviews


Small country and yet so good in music.


----------



## Pugg

​
*Out on September 1 /Berlioz -Gatti.*

*SACD 16006......Blue Ray RCO16108......DVD RCO 16109*
Even on L.P


----------



## Pugg

​
Weber:
Clarinet Concerto No. 1 in F minor, Op. 73
Clarinet Concerto No. 2 in E flat Major, Op. 74
Clarinet Concertino in E flat major, Op. 26

Paul Meyer (clarinet)

Orchestre De Chambre De Lausanne

_Captured with high-resolution SACD technology, this new recording not only is convincing in every respect but also - in 3-D and 2+2+2 Recording - produces an incredible sound, guaranteed to move each and every listener._


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## Luukas

Those albums looks really great, Pugg!

I just bought the Mahler/Haitink (Symphony No. 8) RQR album. I can hardly wait to hear it... John Broggio praised the disc in his review at HRAudio.net.  Double five-star review, by the way.


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## Triplets

The Tacet Beethoven Symphony cycle arrived. I am working my way through it, but at first impression...WOW!


----------



## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Those albums looks really great, Pugg!
> 
> I just bought the Mahler/Haitink (Symphony No. 8) RQR album. I can hardly wait to hear it... John Broggio praised the disc in his review at HRAudio.net.  Double five-star review, by the way.


The Weber opens a whole new perspective on this over recorded works, wonderful sound also. ( for me that is)


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## Triplets

I haven't listened to 8 or 9 yet, but there is simply a significant amount of detail that I never heard in these works before in the Tacet Beethoven set. This is my most significant recording addition in a long time


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> I haven't listened to 8 or 9 yet, but there is simply a significant amount of detail that I never heard in these works before in the Tacet Beethoven set. This is my most significant recording addition in a long time


I have yet to listen to the 9th. I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of TACET's surround recordings of these oft-played symphonies. :cheers:


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## Luukas

Guys, great news! Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra are going to record the all symphonies of Mahler in the future! Perhaps there will be the 10th Symphony, as well (Cooke III). I sent an email to BIS and asked few questions. I will share their answer.


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Guys, great news! Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra are going to record the all symphonies of Mahler in the future! Perhaps there will be the 10th Symphony, as well (Cooke III). I sent an email to BIS and asked few questions. I will share their answer.


That is good news. Otoh the Amazon prerelease price for The same Artists Sibelius 3/6/7 on BIS SACD is $34.00, about a 40%
Increase. Unless this is more than 1 SACD, it is a worrying trend


----------



## Biwa

I just picked this one up last week. Charming music beautifully performed by Holliger and Nicolet. Another winner from the RQR series.









Bellini: Concerto in E flat for oboe and orchestra
Molique: Concertino in G minor for oboe and orchestra
Moscheles: Concertante in F for flute, oboe and orchestra
Rietz: Konzertstück in F minor for oboe and orchestra Op. 33
Vivaldi: Concerto in B flat for oboe, strings and continuo RV465, Concerto in B flat for oboe, strings and continuo RV464

Heinz Holliger (oboe)
Aurele Nicolet (flute)
Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra
Eliahu Inbal (conductor)
I Musici (Vivaldi)


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## Luukas

Some days ago I bought the Beethoven/Grumiaux RC album (Violin Sonatas) as well as the "Fantasies, Rhapsodies and Daydreams" (Steinbacher, Foster). I will receive them soon.


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## Biwa

I remember you taking about this one, Luukas. I found it at a good price here in town last weekend, so I decided to take a chance. I'm glad I did. Powerful performance! And the surround mix is excellent. I'm not a big fan of DG's sound, but this one has a good, detailed front soundstage with a natural, immersive use of the surrounds.









Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection"

Nadja Michael
Latonia Moore 
Singverein der Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde
Wiener Philharmoniker
Gilbert Kaplan (conductor)


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## Luukas

PENTATONE is going to announce the releases of the next year about the start of November. This means that we will see the upcoming RQR albums quite soon!


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## Luukas

The last bird in this year will be the Bruch/Accardo album (Romance and Adagio appassionato). To be honest I didn't know that it was originally recorded with discrete 4-channel tapes. However, this makes me wish the other Bruch/Accardo recordings (Violin Concertos Nos. 2 & 3 and In memoriam) were produced in surround. Because the total time of the November addition is pretty short (25 minutes or even less) I think that there will be more works on the disc. Perhaps in the next year we will hear those concertos and three symphonies of the composer! I will tell you the future albums as soon as possible! 

PS. The all albums of Vänskä/Minnesota Mahler cycle will be 5-channel SACDs! Minnesota Orchestra answered on Messenger (abridged): "Hi Luukas! We can say for certainty that the albums will be SACDs; that's standard with BIS. I will pass your question about the Tenth on to our Artistic Department, but it may take a while to get a response as they are all away on tour right now. It usually takes 12-18 months for a recording to be released as a CD so look for this one [the Fifth] in summer or fall of 2017! Thanks for contacting us!"


----------



## Pugg

​
*Schubert*: Arpeggione Sonata & String Quintet 
String Quintet in C major, D956

*Miró Quartet*

Sonata in A minor 'Arpeggione', D821

Itamar Golan (piano)

Matt Haimovitz (cello)

If you do like chamber music......



> The fifth album to be released in the PENTATONE Oxingale series since PENTATONE and Oxingale Records joined forces in February 2015 combines two great masterpieces of Franz Schubert - the Sonata for Arpeggione and Piano in A minor, D. 821 and the String Quintet in C Major, D956.
> 
> Schubert wrote the sonata D. 821 for the arpeggione, a six stringed instrument similar to the viola da gamba, invented in 1723 and falling into oblivion not much more than a decade later. With the Arpeggione no longer around the sonata is usually played on the cello or viola. In this 2001 performance Grammy-nominated cellist Matt Haimovitz is joined by renowned pianist and chamber musician Itamar Golan. Finished only a few months before his untimely death in November 1828, Schubert's String Quintet in C major, set for the rather unusual combination of string quartet plus a second cello, received its first public performance in 1850 and was published only in 1853. Nowadays generally considered to be one of the greatest masterpieces in the chamber music repertoire, it is hard to imagine that the Quintet remained unheard for such a long time.
> 
> On this album it can be heard in a 2003 performance by Matt Haimovitz and the Miró Quartet.


----------



## Triplets

Triplets said:


> That is good news. Otoh the Amazon prerelease price for The same Artists Sibelius 3/6/7 on BIS SACD is $34.00, about a 40%
> Increase. Unless this is more than 1 SACD, it is a worrying trend


Good news. The Vanska is $20.00 on Amazon. With P+H that is still more than a download but I was worried that BIS was really going to up the price on their SACDs to promoted downloads instead.


----------



## Pugg

Look at this:

​
Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy (1809-1847) 
Symphonien Nr.1 & 4

London Symphony Orchestra, Sir John Eliot Gardiner

*SACD + Blu-ray audio*


----------



## Luukas

Pugg said:


> Look at this:
> 
> ​
> Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy (1809-1847)
> Symphonien Nr.1 & 4
> 
> London Symphony Orchestra, Sir John Eliot Gardiner
> 
> *SACD + Blu-ray audio*


 Yeah, I have noticed this. Looks very interesting, indeed. The physical release of the 2nd Symphony "Lobgesang" of the composer has been planned for Spring 2017. It will be the last addition to Gardiner's generally excellent Mendelssohn cycle for LSO Live.


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## Triplets

Played the BIS recording of Suzuki /Japan Bach Collegium in SACD yesterday. Very exciting playing and crystal clear sonics


----------



## Triplets

The Tacet Beethoven Cycle is excellent. The Orchestra is chamber sized, seems to play with some period practices (minimal vibrato) but modern sounding instruments. Tempos are sprightly.
The first movement of the 5th so excited me that I played it again after listening to it yesterday. I don't think that I have done that for 40 years. And the unabashed equal use of all speakers, the middle of the Orchestra effect, is so revelatory. It's expensive, but I recommend it very highly


----------



## Luukas

1) The Beethoven/Grumiaux RC album arrived today. I am going to listen it soon.
2) My newly established piano trio will perform the A minor Trio of Pyotr Tchaikovsky in Spring 2017. The work is my favorite of the genre. There are so many beautiful melodies, for example the variations of the second movement and the opening thema of whole piece. I love it, really.


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> 1) The Beethoven/Grumiaux RC album arrived today. I am going to listen it soon.
> 2) My newly established piano trio will perform the A minor Trio of Pyotr Tchaikovsky in Spring 2017. The work is my favorite of the genre. There are so many beautiful melodies, for example the variations of the second movement and the opening thema of whole piece. I love it, really.


Funny, I heard that on the radio a few days ago and realize that I didn't own a recording.  A few days later a previously ordered set of CDs, EMI Jacqueline Du Pre recordings, arrived, and solved that deficiency. Recommend me a good multichannel recording, Lucas


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## Luukas

The "EMI Signature SACD Edition" which was released few years ago was a great disappointment. No multichannel layer, just stereo. They had a great chance to release the quadraphonic gems from the 1970s but they didn't want to do it. And naturally they don't have interest to start this thing again, I think.


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## Luukas

Beaux Arts Trio recorded Tchaikovsky's Piano Trio in August 1970. The producer was Jaap van Ginneken, the same guy who produced the Mahler recordings of Bernard Haitink. Let's hope that this attractive album was recorded originally for 4-channel tapes.


----------



## Luukas

Few minutes ago I received the answer of BIS. Here it is:

"Hi Luukas,

Thank your for you mail! 

Whether or not we'll record all the symphonies I can't say, this is a quite a project that will take many years. But I can tell you that we've just recorded Symphony No. 5 and it will be released in spring 2017. 
We also have plans for Symphony nr. 6 but I can't say at the moment when it will be released. 
All recordings are SACD.

Thank you for your interest in BIS records!

Best Regards,
Jenny Hertzman".


----------



## Pugg

Luukas said:


> Few minutes ago I received the answer of BIS. Here it is:
> 
> "Hi Luukas,
> 
> Thank your for you mail!
> 
> Whether or not we'll record all the symphonies I can't say, this is a quite a project that will take many years. But I can tell you that we've just recorded Symphony No. 5 and it will be released in spring 2017.
> We also have plans for Symphony nr. 6 but I can't say at the moment when it will be released.
> All recordings are SACD.
> 
> Thank you for your interest in BIS records!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Jenny Hertzman".


Besides that is good news for you, it's excellent that they even give you the time of day to even answer your question.
Well done BIS.


----------



## Triplets

BIS is very good in that way. I've e mailed them a few times and once the respondent was Robert Von Bahr, the CEO/Owner.


----------



## Pugg

Triplets said:


> BIS is very good in that way. I've e mailed them a few times and once the respondent was Robert Von Bahr, the CEO/Owner.


I did send RCA / Sony more then 10 different letters, never one response .


----------



## Luukas

View attachment 88452

Richard Strauss: 5 Great Tone Poems (including Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel)
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink
Philips Classics, Duo

This 2-disc Strauss set is a collector's dream, absolutely. Bernard Haitink and the Concertgebouw Orchestra are in fine form for these masterpieces and the recording quality (digitally remastered) is also incredible. The all works on these discs were analogue recordings. First of them was taped in 1970 and the last in 1981. Were they a 4-channel recordings? The producers were highly experienced Volker Straus and Jaap van Ginneken. It would be simply luxury to receive these on two SACDs with remastered 1-bit DSD surround sound layers. 
I have listed the details of the recordings below:

Ein Heldenleben [A Hero's Life], Op. 40 (47:04)
- Recording date: May 1970
- Live/Studio: Studio
- Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Jaap van Ginneken (Recording Producer)
- Format: Analogue recording

Tod und Verklärung [Death and Transfiguration], Op. 24 (26:57)
- Recording date: December 1981
- Live/Studio: Studio
- Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
- Format: Analogue recording

Don Juan, Op. 20 (16:33)
- Recording year: 1974
- Live/Studio: Studio
- Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
- Format: Analogue recording

Also sprach Zarathustra [Thus spoke Zarathustra], Op. 30 (34:13)
- Recording year: 1973
- Live/Studio: Studio
- Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
- Format: Analogue recording

Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche [Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks], Op. 28 (14:53)
- Recording year: Unknown
- Live/Studio: Studio
- Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
- Producer: Unknown
- Format: Analogue recording


----------



## Triplets

Pugg said:


> I did send RCA / Sony more then 10 different letters, never one response .


 Are we surprised?


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 88452
> 
> Richard Strauss: 5 Great Tone Poems (including Also sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel)
> Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Bernard Haitink
> Philips Classics, Duo
> 
> This 2-disc Strauss set is a collector's dream, absolutely. Bernard Haitink and the Concertgebouw Orchestra are in fine form for these masterpieces and the recording quality (digitally remastered) is also incredible. The all works on these discs were analogue recordings. First of them was taped in 1970 and the last in 1981. Were they a 4-channel recordings? The producers were highly experienced Volker Straus and Jaap van Ginneken. It would be simply luxury to receive these on two SACDs with remastered 1-bit DSD surround sound layers.
> I have listed the details of the recordings below:
> 
> Ein Heldenleben [A Hero's Life], Op. 40 (47:04)
> - Recording date: May 1970
> - Live/Studio: Studio
> - Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Jaap van Ginneken (Recording Producer)
> - Format: Analogue recording
> 
> Tod und Verklärung [Death and Transfiguration], Op. 24 (26:57)
> - Recording date: December 1981
> - Live/Studio: Studio
> - Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
> - Format: Analogue recording
> 
> Don Juan, Op. 20 (16:33)
> - Recording year: 1974
> - Live/Studio: Studio
> - Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
> - Format: Analogue recording
> 
> Also sprach Zarathustra [Thus spoke Zarathustra], Op. 30 (34:13)
> - Recording year: 1973
> - Live/Studio: Studio
> - Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Volker Straus (There weren't, however, any details of the producer)
> - Format: Analogue recording
> 
> Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche [Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks], Op. 28 (14:53)
> - Recording year: Unknown
> - Live/Studio: Studio
> - Recording Location: Concertgebouw, Great Hall, Amsterdam, Netherlands
> - Producer: Unknown
> - Format: Analogue recording


 I owned these recordings on lp and have the 2fer CD that you show in your picture.
I am unclear about your post here, Lucas. Are these recordings slated to be released in MC because they were also recorded in Quad, or are you hoping that they were Quad encoded?


----------



## Luukas

Triplets said:


> I am unclear about your post here, Lucas. Are these recordings slated to be released in MC because they were also recorded in Quad, or are you hoping that they were Quad encoded?


I am hoping that they were recorded also in quad. This is quite likely because most of them were made before the year 1975.


----------



## Pugg

Pugg said:


> ​
> *Out on September 1 /Berlioz -Gatti.*
> 
> *SACD 16006......Blue Ray RCO16108......DVD RCO 16109*
> Even on L.P


I heard the demo yesterday , stunning recorded .


----------



## Luukas

BIS has updated the website with new online store: http://bis.se/conditions-info


----------



## Luukas

OK, the situation is this: PENTATONE has promised to release more RC albums in the next year but we cannot know the exact albums yet. But according to the latest announcements they have negotiated with the management of Deutsche Grammophon (and perhaps with the current heads of Philips Classics, as well) and have managed to receive more 4-channel tapes for their next season. Currently we can just guess what we will hear. But I'll try to be the first who will tell the good news to you, as I have mentioned before!


----------



## Luukas

Here is my review of the Berlioz/Davis RQR album:

"In my view the origin of the [quadraphonic] surround sound is something that should be understood prior to listening to this album. It all began in June 1969 when the Vanguard Record Society introduced "Quadraphonic open reel tape (Q4)". After this the first 4-channel recordings were released for the listeners.
The golden era of the quadraphonic releases took 12 years (1969-1981) although most had stopped appearing by the end of 1976. During this time thousands of quadraphonic recordings were made and not only among the artists of classical music. Elvis Presley (1935-1977) and John Lennon (1940-1980) were both excited on this new technology, for example. Classical performers were thrilled, as well. Herbert von Karajan (1908-1989) made dozens of 4-channel recordings with Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra but for Emi Classics only. Leonard Bernstein (1918-1990) released few albums as well as Claudio Abbado (1933-2014) at the beginning of his Chicago season. 
This forgotten technology was discovered again in the early 2000s when Sony and Philips Electronics introduced their magnificent innovation, Super Audio CD (SACD). At that time someone asked: "What we should do for these old surround recordings?" The answer was simple: "We will release them on SACD!" And so it came to pass. The Dutch classical music company PENTATONE released their first RQR (Remastered Quadro Recording) albums in 2003. They were licensed recordings from the catalogue of Philips Classics. During the next 11 years PENTATONE brought out almost 100 albums in this special series. The last album [Starring: Christmas - Winchester Cathedral Choir, Martin Neary] was released in November 2013.

This Grammy (1971) recording of Berlioz's "Requiem" was released 2008. Recorded in November 1969 at the Westminster Cathedral it was one of the earliest quadraphonic productions of Philips Classics. Few years earlier Sir Colin Davis, the greatest Berlioz conductor of his time, had started to record the complete works of the composer for the mentioned company. The producer was Vittorio Negri who was a real master and pioneer of the recording technology. The sonorous acoustics of the building was quite ideal for the distant brass groups. I think the engineers tried to reach the 360-degree sound field instead of separate four-way listening experience. The lack of the centre channel was slightly disappointment because the voice of Ronald Dowd could have heard from it. Otherwise I can recommended this 2-disc set without reservations. Buy this".

- Performance: *****
- Sonics: ****1/2 (Multichannel)

View attachment 88713

Hector Berlioz: Requiem Op. 5 "Grande messe des morts"
Ronald Dowd, tenor
Wandsworth School Boys' Choir
London Symphony Orchestra and Chorus
Sir Colin Davis
PENTATONE PTC 5186191 (RQR - Remastered Quadro Recording) 2 disc-set


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## Luukas

Next year back to the Deutsche Grammophon!


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> I heard the demo yesterday , stunning recorded .


Listened to it on ClassicsOnline. Stunning recording. Performance...zzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Listened to it on ClassicsOnline. Stunning recording. Performance...zzzzzzzzzzzzz


Indeed, I did hear more energetic recordings.


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## Triplets

I received the Pentatone recording of Haitink and the RCO ( just the CO back then) in Mahler 5, recorded in Quad in 1970 (actually, it is listed as 5.0 recording). I was particularly eager to get this, as my introduction to this work was Haitink leading the LPO in a Concert in the late 1970. I also have had the great pleasure of hearing BH lead my local Orchestra, the Chicago Symphony, in several Mahler symphonies in the past few years.
The Tink was and remains the antithesis of the Leonard Bernstein/Bruno Walter approach, with over the top emotional outpourings. He takes a very objective approach to the score, emphasizing that this is a Symphony, written in Sonata Allegro form. He obtains his effects through meticulous detail and by keeping the music moving. I listened once in 2 channel and once in multi. Multi doesn't do much, IMO to enhance other than open up the sound stage and enhance the sense of being in a Concert Hall, nut that is really what a good multichannel reading should do, after all. I would call it the "Anti-Tacet" approach, where that label unabashedly places the listener smack in the middle of the proceedings


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> Indeed, I did hear more energetic recordings.


Hopefully Gatti will step it up a notch. The Fantastique sounds like he is trying to play it safe


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Hopefully Gatti will step it up a notch. The Fantastique sounds like he is trying to play it safe


The newspapers reviews ware raving........


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## Luukas

A little clarification: it seems now that PENTATONE has managed to receive dozens of 4-channel tapes from the vaults of Deutsche Grammophon! At last the new management recognized the value of the series! I was quite depressed about the embarrassing situation before. Not anymore! But the artists and works of these upcoming albums are unknown, so far. I'm excited to see what we'll hear... More flowers to be picked up!


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> The newspapers reviews ware raving........


Raving mad? Worried that they may in for tenure of mediocrity?
Pugg, listen to the Haitink/RCO Mahler 5 that I referenced above. Listen to the strings in the Adagietto, or the winds in the last movement, or the powerful but judiciously applied brass throughout . THAT was Orchestral playing to die for and the interpretation of a Master Conductor.
We have high standards for the RCO. I hope that they are met!


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## DaveM

This is one of the earliest articles on 4-Channel Sound and probably the first to give a description on how to set up a 'poor-man's' quad setup. If you click on the 3rd and 4th pages for an enlarged view, you can see that it is from Stereo Review dated April 1971!

This article alone started what would become my 15 year interest in quad sound. On reading it as a fairly young fellow at the time, I realized that all I had to do was pull out 2 speakers sitting in my closet and connect them as described to my stereo setup and I would have a quad sound system. Over the years, I would add SQ, QS and CD-4 decoders to my system and, of course, purchase many quad records.


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> Raving mad? Worried that they may in for tenure of mediocrity?
> Pugg, listen to the Haitink/RCO Mahler 5 that I referenced above. Listen to the strings in the Adagietto, or the winds in the last movement, or the powerful but judiciously applied brass throughout . THAT was Orchestral playing to die for and the interpretation of a Master Conductor.
> We have high standards for the RCO. I hope that they are met!


I like your raving review , specially the part in red (now) I love the orchestra, really I do and visit it quit regularly.
Let's hope they ( the orchestra members) made the right choice in the end.


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## Luukas

Guys, while we are waiting for the next bunch of the Remastered Classics there will be interesting modern surround recordings. I have listed them below:

View attachment 88768

Jean Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1-7 (complete), Kullervo, The Oceadines & Pohjola's Daughter [5 SACDs + 1 BD-A]
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir Colin Davis (conductor)
LSO Live (LSO0675)
"Sir Colin Davis was instrumental in the development and success of LSO Live, including the label's first Grammy award. He also played a huge part in the pre-eminence of the LSO across the globe for more than 50 years. A master Sibelian his landmark cycle of the complete symphonies on LSO Live has been described as possibly 'the finest Sibelius cycle on disc' by The Observer. The original SACD Hybrid albums and accompanying CD boxed set are among the most successful and popular recordings on the label and they re now presented as one complete SACD Hybrid and Pure Audio Blu-ray collection, bringing together 'Kullervo' with 'Pohjola s Daughter', not available on the original CD boxed set, and 'The Oceanides', previously only available as part of the limited edition 'Sir Colin Davis Anthology'. Sibelius was one of the 20th century s greatest and most innovative symphonists, reworking the traditional symphonic structure as radically as Beethoven did in his day. His music is characterised by beauty, mystery, colour and light, together with his strong love for his native Finnish homeland. Praised for their sound quality as well as the music-making, this digibox set of classic LSO Live recordings also features a Pure Audio Blu-ray, containing HD master audio, allowing listeners to experience this award-winning cycle in a whole new way". 
IMPORTANT NOTE: This album will be released on October 14, 2016

View attachment 88769

Igor Stravinsky: The Firebird (complete ballet)
Bela Bartok: Piano Concerto No. 3 & Suite from the Miraculous Mandarin
Sergei Prokofiev: Excerpts from Romeo & Juliet Suite No 2 
Yefim Bronfman (piano)
London Symphony Orchestra
Valery Gergiev (conductor)
LSO Live
"On 24th October 2015 at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, Valery Gergiev took to the rostrum for his penultimate concert as Principal Conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra. An explosive programme of Stravinsky, Bartók and Prokofiev - repertoire that always fires Gergiev's imagination - this live recording captures a major milestone in the Orchestra's history. *The first LSO Live release made outside of the Orchestra's Barbican home*, it showcases the very best music-making that Gergiev and the LSO can produce. Stravinsky's Firebird was an instant hit with audience and critics alike at its 1910 premiere it is a constant in Gergiev s repertoire. Piano Concerto No 3 is Bartók's final work, completed only four days before he succumbed to a long battle with leukaemia. The New York Times found Yefim Bronfman's interpretation of Piano Concerto No 3 'brilliantly charismatic' and he is an acknowledged master of the great Hungarian s music, winning a Grammy award for his 2009 recording of all three Bartók Piano Concertos. A story of prostitution and violence, 'The Miraculous Mandarin', performed here in the suite version, is dramatic, mysterious and sinister. Incredibly entertaining, it s now one of Bartók's most well-known works and never fails to lure the listener into a deep, dark world of seduction and horror. The LSO's performance of the work on tour was met with critical acclaim: Closing the album is the encore from the concert, excerpts from Prokofiev's incredibly popular ballet 'Romeo & Juliet'. That Gergiev chose this work to close his farewell concerts is not surprising, as the music and its composer have special signficance for the conductor and for the LSO. 2016 sees the world mark the 125th anniversary of Prokofiev's birth and Gergiev has long been a champion of the great Russian's music. His award-winning recording of the complete score on LSO Live is among the best-selling on the label, winning BBC Music Magazine Best Orchestral recording of 2011".
IMPORTANT NOTE: This album will be released on October 14, 2016

View attachment 88770

Tchaikovsky, Peter: The Nutcracker, Op. 71 (complete ballet) & Symphony No. 4 in F minor, Op. 36 [2 discs]
Mariinsky Orchestra
Valery Gergiev (conductor)
Mariinsky (MAR0593)
"On the 18th December, 1892 at the Imperial Mariinsky Theatre, 'The Nutcracker' was first introduced to the world. Now, almost 125 years since that opening night and from the very same hall, the Mariinsky s current Artistic Director, Valery Gergiev, reveals only his second recording of Tchaikovsky's ballet masterpiece. A perfectly judged realisation of one of classical music s most cherished works. Gergiev is an expert in Tchaikovsky s music and his interpretations of 'The Nutcracker' are among the most celebrated: 'Gergiev takes us back to that first light of inspiration, and his orchestra plays as if guided by the composer s own hand.' The New York Times Based upon E.T.A. Hoffmann s tale of a young girl's magical Christmas Eve, 'The Nutcracker' has become an essential part of festive celebrations the world over. Adored for pieces like 'The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy' and 'The Waltz of the Flowers', it contains some of Tchaikovsky s most popular work and is perhaps the most famous ballet music ever written. Closing the album is Tchaikovsky's powerfully emotional Fourth Symphony. As the composer wrote, it is 'patterned after Beethoven s Fifth' and is well known for its theme of fate, announced by the ominous recurring fanfare that holds the unique symphonic form together. This coupling displays two very different sides of Tchaikovsky's music, illustrating him as a complex man who battled to balance inner turmoils as well as utmost joy. Perhaps summed up by the final line of Tchaikovsky's famous programme note: 'Reproach yourself and do not say that all the world is sad. Simple but strong joys do exist. Rejoice in other's rejoicing. To live is still bearable.' 
IMPORTANT NOTE: This album will be released on October 14, 2016


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## Luukas

From this point onwards I'll work with PENTATONE. My task is compile different playlists to Spotify. I was reportedly so enthusiastic customer. Exciting...  And who knows, perhaps I am able to know the next bunch of "Remastered Classics" in advance...


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## Triplets

I haven't been much interested in the LSO live series for a variety of reasons. The foremost reason is their awful Concert Hall, the Barbican (Barbarian Can). It doesn't matter if SACD technology is applied to a fundamentally bad recording, and the LSO Live recordings that I have heard (Davis in Nielsen and Berlioz) are Sonic disasters. Regarding Colin Davis and Sibelius, I already own two complete Sibelius cycles by him, with the Boston Symphony andLSO respectively, so I can't muster any enthusiasm for a 3rd, and opted for Vanska/Minnesota in SACD as my multichannel cycle.


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## Luukas

Bummer: the Stravinsky/Gergiev album is not SACD, just a 2-channel CD. Thomas Rozwadowski (LSO Live Production and Marketing Coordinator) sent a message to me: 

"Hi Luukas,

Many thanks for getting in touch and for your interest in our recording.

Unfortunately, that release is CD only as it was recorded during a concert in America and there were no surround-sound facilities available. The concert was fantastic though, so I’m sure you will not be disappointed if you do decide to buy the recording!

Best regards,
Tom".


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## Biwa

Gergiev's Nutcracker should be delightful. He certainly knows Russian music. And the surround sound of Mariinsky Orchestra recordings has been good IMO. Their Das Rheingold and Die Walküre have a nice, open soundstage with depth. 

The LSO's SACD recordings seem to be quite popular with many surround listeners. They offer solid performances at very reasonable prices. I suppose they're a good way for folks to build a collection of classical music in Hirez surround. But, I tend to agree with Triplets about the Barbi"canned" sound being less than ideal.


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## Luukas

I mostly agree with you, guys. But I think that the dry acoustics of the hall reveals the tone of the individual instrument more clearly than the sonorous acoustics of the great hall. James Mallinson (the producer of LSO Live) explains these things:


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## Biwa

Well, don't worry, Luukas. I haven't completely given up on LSO SACDs...like someone else around here has. (Just kidding, Triplets :lol: LOL!) I still have most of my LSO SACDs. Certain works may be more suited to that dry sound than other works. But, I do love an open soundstage that allows all the instruments to be clearly and naturally heard. Thanks for the video link.


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## Triplets

I would be open to LSO live recordings if the offerings were more appealing. Many of them seem to feature Conductors such as Davis or Haitink in repertoire that they have already recorded more than once previously, or else Gergiev, of whom I am not an admirer.
I now have paid for a streaming service, ClassicsOnline, which streams uncompressed and High Rez, but alas not in multichannel.
LSO Live is well represented so if one of their recordings appeals I may order the SACD version.


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## Luukas

I just send some potential album covers to the staff of LSO Live. 
View attachment 88959
View attachment 88960
View attachment 88961

I'm not sure about these. There has been few archive recordings that were recorded in surround. The things what you said Triplets were true. They should consider to release albums of other conductors, not always Gergiev, Haitink, Gergiev and so on. They should also release more SACD albums that were recorded outside of Barbican. Berlioz's Requiem and Mahler's 8 were both quite pleasant listening experiences. The recording location was St. Paul's Cathedral.


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## Biwa

Isabel I, Reina de Castilla

La Capella Reial De Catalunya
Hespèrion XXI
Jordi Savall (conductor)

Just listening to this one. A while ago I was in Jordi overload, so I took a step back for a while. But, today I came across this one on sale in a music shop and couldn't resist. Beautifully exotic performances with a superb surround mix.


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## Biwa

Luukas said:


> I just send some potential album covers to the staff of LSO Live.
> View attachment 88959
> View attachment 88960
> View attachment 88961
> 
> I'm not sure about these. There has been few archive recordings that were recorded in surround. The things what you said Triplets were true. They should consider to release albums of other conductors, not always Gergiev, Haitink, Gergiev and so on. They should also release more SACD albums that were recorded outside of Barbican. Berlioz's Requiem and Mahler's 8 were both quite pleasant listening experiences. The recording location was St. Paul's Cathedral.


If you hadn't told me, I would have thought those were the real covers. The Faust one is especially good and just in time for Halloween. :devil: LOL!!


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## DaveM

Re: LSO covers by Luukas: Very impressive!


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## Luukas

Thanks for your comments, DaveM and Biwa!  
I bought the "Sir Colin Davis Anthology" box set some years ago. There were three previously unreleased 5-channel recordings from the archives of LSO Live (Berlioz's "Te Deum" and "Overture", Sibelius's "The Oceadines"). It seems that they have recorded a couple of concerts but never released them on physical form. It would be great to have those Berlioz and Mahler concerts on SACD, for example. Though I don't know if they were recorded in surround. But there should be numerous multichannel recordings in the archives of the orchestra. It would be silly if the missing parts of Gergiev's Berlioz cycle - "The Damnation of Faust" & "The Childhood of Christ" - will not be available on SACD.


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## Luukas

It has been great fun to design the potential LSO Live album covers. Here are my 5 other thoughts for the possible future releases:

View attachment 88998

Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 10 in F-sharp major (Completed Deryck Cooke, 1976)
London Symphony Orchestra
Daniel Harding

"Daniel Harding has been a kind of expert of Mahler's Symphony No. 10. Eight years ago he recorded the work for Deutsche Grammophon with Wiener Philharmoniker. The CD received many reviews that were mostly very positive. Few years ago he conducted the entire work again (https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concert/16939). Therefore it would be clever to think that he will do it with the London Symphony Orchestra whose Principal Guest Conductor he is. Harding has studied this work for years and he has an incredible ability to find the most emotional tones of the slow movements. This potential LSO Live album could includes the Blu-ray Audio (5.1 surround sound presented in 192-kHz/24-bit)".

View attachment 88999

Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Die Zauberflöte [The Magic Flute], K620 (semi-staged concert performance)
Sally Matthews (Pamina)
Barry Banks (Tamino)
Simon Keenlyside (Papageno)
Kate Royal (Papagena)
Anna-Kristiina Kaappola (The Queen of Night)
Simon O'Neill (Monostatos)
London Symphony Chorus
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir Simon Rattle

"This album has been my dream for a long time. Imagine that: a luxurious digibox which includes 2 SACDs as well as high-resolution Blu-ray Audio disc. Few years ago I heard at the Finnish National Opera when Kaappola sang the role of the Queen of Night. It was uplifting listening experience, indeed. Despite the dry acoustics of the Barbican Hall the engineers have managed to capture an impressive dynamic range for their BD-A releases. I really hope that Rattle will conduct this masterpiece during his career in London".

View attachment 89000

Rimsky-Korsakov, Nikolai: Scheherazade, Op. 35 & Russian Easter Festival Overture, Op. 36
London Symphony Orchestra
Valery Gergiev

"Valery Gergiev knows really Russian music. During his period as a principal conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra he recorded the all symphonies of Rachmaninov for LSO Live as well as Symphonies Nos. 1-3 of Tchaikovsky. This potential Rimsky-Korsakov album would be a valuable addition to his discography".

View attachment 89001

Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra [Thus spoke Zarathustra], Op. 30 & Ein Heldenleben [A Hero's Life], Op. 40
London Symphony Orchestra
Daniel Harding

"Alongside with classical music LSO has specialized for movie music. They recorded the music for "Harry Potter", "Titanic" and "The Lord of the Rings", for example. The "Sunrise" section of Strauss's "Zarathustra" sprang to fame with Kubrick's "2001 Space Odyssey". This LSO Live album could includes the multi-channel Blu-ray Audio disc, as well".

View attachment 89002

Tchaikovsky, Piotr: Manfred Symphony, Op. 58
London Symphony Orchestra
Valery Gergiev

"There are just two high-resolution SACD albums of Tchaikovsky's "Manfred Symphony" (Kitajenko & Pletnev). Gergiev should join to the group with this possible 5-channel album with the LSO. According to my knowledge he has never recorded the work. The colors of the individual instruments (harp, tambourine and church bell) could be heard more clearly".


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## Triplets

Re: the above post
I have both of those SACDs of Tchaikovsky's Manfred. I also have the other discs from this TcHaik cycles. Kitaenko's Manfred is excellent, and I have many versions of this work, one that I am very fond of. For the rest of the SACD cycle I would give the nod to 
Pletnev, and his Manfred isn't bad either. I think Pentatone is offering the Pletnev as a boxed set at a bit of a discount


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## Luukas

I tried to ask more details about the future albums of Remastered Classics. I received the answer as follows:

"Thank you for your message. Unfortunately we currently cannot communicate any information about the future releases, but be sure that you will be the first aware when we will have information we can communicate officially". 

So, stay tuned!


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## Biwa

I'm indulging in some classic rock in Quad courtesy of Audio Fidelity. Last month they released *Blue Öyster Cult - Secret Treaties* on SACD. Good sonics and nice separation of the instruments in 4.0.

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/for...ster-Cult-SECRET-TREATIES-SACD&highlight=Blue


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## Luukas

PENTATONE has removed the Bruch/Accardo RC album from the release planning list. What a disappointment.  
However, within three weeks I'll know the RQR albums of the next year. How exciting...


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> View attachment 89210
> 
> 
> I'm indulging in some classic rock in Quad courtesy of Audio Fidelity. Last month they released *Blue Öyster Cult - Secret Treaties* on SACD. Good sonics and nice separation of the instruments in 4.0.
> 
> http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/for...ster-Cult-SECRET-TREATIES-SACD&highlight=Blue


Oh no...there goes Tow-Key-Oh...


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## Triplets

Andrew Litton and the Bergen Orchestra have done a superb Rachmaninov Second Symphony on BIS. The recording is the usual BIS stunner and the performance is the best that I have ever heard


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> Oh no...there goes Tow-Key-Oh...


Even after being obliterated over and over again...Tokyo somehow keeps coming back.

Amazing, isn't it!


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## Luukas

Few days ago I bought these hi-res albums:
View attachment 89311

Grieg: Piano Concerto, Symphonic Dances
Havård Gimse, piano
Royal Scottish National Orchestra
Bjarte Engeset
Naxos (DVD Audio)

View attachment 89312

Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
Sao Paolo Symphony Orchestra
Frank Shipway 
BIS Records (SACD)

View attachment 89313

Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 1 in G minor, Op. 13 "Winter Daydreams" & Slavonic March
Russian National Orchestra
Mikhail Pletnev 
Pentatone Classics (SACD)

They are still on the way. I look forward to hear them, especially the Shipway/Strauss album.
Anyway, let's hope that John Storgårds will record the Cooke/Mahler Symphony No. 10 for Ondine in the future. I have made potential album covers for the SACD release*.
View attachment 89314
View attachment 89315

*) The total time of the disc (79:45) is just my suggestion. I think the outer movements of the symphony should be very slow (I: about 28-31 min & V: about 26-28 min). Their incredibly beautiful atmosphere will reach the maximum effect on that way.


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## Triplets

Biwa said:


> Even after being obliterated over and over again...Tokyo somehow keeps coming back.
> 
> Amazing, isn't it!


Perhaps they should rename the town as Phoenix


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Few days ago I bought these hi-res albums:
> View attachment 89311
> 
> Grieg: Piano Concerto, Symphonic Dances
> Havård Gimse, piano
> Royal Scottish National Orchestra
> Bjarte Engeset
> Naxos (DVD Audio)
> 
> View attachment 89312
> 
> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Sao Paolo Symphony Orchestra
> Frank Shipway
> BIS Records (SACD)
> 
> View attachment 89313
> 
> Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 1 in G minor, Op. 13 "Winter Daydreams" & Slavonic March
> Russian National Orchestra
> Mikhail Pletnev
> Pentatone Classics (SACD)
> 
> They are still on the way. I look forward to hear them, especially the Shipway/Strauss album.
> Anyway, let's hope that John Storgårds will record the Cooke/Mahler Symphony No. 10 for Ondine in the future. I have made potential album covers for the SACD release*.
> View attachment 89314
> View attachment 89315
> 
> *) The total time of the disc (79:45) is just my suggestion. I think the outer movements of the symphony should be very slow (I: about 28-31 min & V: about 26-28 min). Their incredibly beautiful atmosphere will reach the maximum effect on that way.


 I've got the Grieg DVD-A which I haven't listened to for some time. I remember it being a well done version of the PC with great sound. I have the complete Pletnev Tchaikovsky cycle and the Winter Dreams may be the best part of that cycle, although all the recordings are worth having. Enjoy them, Lukas!


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## Luukas

Good news! Seattle Symphony is going to release their recording of Mahler's Symphony No. 10 with Thomas Dausgaard on SACD! The edition was the most popular Cooke III. Phew, finally...


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## Luukas

Yesterday I received information concerning to the last album of Vänskä/Minnesota Sibelius cycle:

"Dear Luukas, 
Thank you for you e-mail! The Kullervo disc will be released in January 2017 and it will be in SACD 5.0 surround.

Best wishes,
Jenny"


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## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Yesterday I received information concerning to the last album of Vänskä/Minnesota Sibelius cycle:
> 
> "Dear Luukas,
> Thank you for you e-mail! The Kullervo disc will be released in January 2017 and it will be in SACD 5.0 surround.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Jenny"


That's good news.
I was listening to the 3rd from that set yesterday. I wonder why BIS doesn't use a sub output. I found it's absence telling in 3/I


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## Luukas

View attachment 89529

This will be the next installment to Gardiner's critically acclaimed Mendelssohn cycle. I'm so excited to hear it! Scheduled release date: February 2017 (1 BD-A + 1 SACD).


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## Luukas

Today PENTATONE announced its first RC album of next year:

July 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Mozart String Quintets Nos. 1-6
Arthur Grumiaux, Georges Janzer, Eva Czako, Max Lesueur, Arpad Gérecz 
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

They'll add more titles as soon as they're ready. Look the releases of September 2017! Superb stuff is coming, definitely:

Engelbert Humperdinck - Hänsel und Gretel
Marek Janowski, Sophie Harmsen, Sophie Klussmann, Ricarda Merbeth, Albert Dohmen, Christian Elsner , Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin

Richard Strauss - Also sprach Zarathustra & Gustav Mahler - Totenfeier
Vladimir Jurowski , Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin

Oh dear, look these releases:

October 2017
Richard Strauss - Salome
Andrés Orozco - Estrada , Frankfurt Radio Symphony 
THE FIRST MULTI-CHANNEL ALBUM OF STRAUSS'S "SALOME"! 1-BIT DSD SOUND GUARANTEED BY POLYHYMNIA! HURRAH! 

Verdi Otello
Nikolai Schukoff, Melody Moore, Lester Lynch , Jamie Barton, Keving Short, Lawrence Foster , Gulbenkian Orchestra 
Giuseppe Verdi

Britten & Hindemith Violin Concertos
Arabella Steinbacher, Vladimir Jurowski , Radio Symphony Orchestra Berlin 
Benjamin Britten, Paul Hindemith

November
PENTATONE OXINGALE SERIES "Troika"
Matt Haimovitz, Christopher O'Riley 
Sergei Prokofiev, Dmitri Shostakovich, Sergei Rachmaninov

Haydn - The Creation
Andrés Orozco - Estrada , Houston Symphony 
Franz Joseph Haydn

Find the all planning releases here: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases


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## Luukas

View attachment 89607

I just bought this Sibelius/Davis box set at LSO Live store. Most likely I'll receive it early next week. I'm pretty sure that the new Blu-ray Audio will open the dry acoustics of the Barbican. As I have said before the dimensions of the hall have increased the details of the instruments for the listener. I look forward to hear "Kullervo".
Order your own copy here: https://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/most-recent-all-products/products/sibelius-sacdbox


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## Triplets

Is that a Blu Ray Audio disc, Luukas?


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## Luukas

Yes, it is. 5 SACDs + 1 BD-A.


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## Luukas

Another box of SACDs is on the way:
View attachment 89657
View attachment 89658
View attachment 89659

They will be with me within 10 days. Exciting...


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## Triplets

I have the Schubert disc. It's very nice


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## Pugg

Presto has a discount, see link:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/pr...s&composer=&work=&performer=&medium=SACD&cat=


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## Luukas

View attachment 89687

Kokkonen, Joonas: The Last Temptations - opera in two acts
Talvela, Auvinen, Ruohonen, Lehtinen, Nordberg, Laaksonen
Chorus and Orchestra of the Savonlinna Opera Festival, Ulf Söderblom (conductor)
Recording: Savonlinna, July 17-22, 1977
Analogue recording, released later on Finlandia Records FACD 104

Was this a quadraphonic recording?


----------



## Luukas

My question:
"Hi! 
I'm just wondering: LSO Live released the Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 of Haitink's Brahms cycle on SACD (LSO0544 & LSO547). But you never brought out the other albums of the series in this form. Were they multi-channel recordings? DSD (Direct Stream Digital) was the way to record, naturally. The same question linked to Holst's "The Planets" (LSO0029) which was also DSD recording. 
It would be simply awesome to receive these extremely compelling albums on SACD or even on Pure Audio Blu-ray in the future!
With best regards,
Luukas".

The answer:
"Hi Luukas, Great question. It's something we're working on with our audio engineers, so I'll just say 'watch this space' for now 
Best wishes, 
Tom 
LSO Live".

Thumbs up!


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> View attachment 89607
> 
> I just bought this Sibelius/Davis box set at LSO Live store. Most likely I'll receive it early next week. I'm pretty sure that the new Blu-ray Audio will open the dry acoustics of the Barbican. As I have said before the dimensions of the hall have increased the details of the instruments for the listener. I look forward to hear "Kullervo".
> Order your own copy here: https://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/most-recent-all-products/products/sibelius-sacdbox


I've been streaming these performances in Hi rez two channel from ClassicsOnline. There is good definition of the winds and a nice sense of hall presence, but I still feel the opaqueness of the venue obscures a lot of the bass lines and the midrange


----------



## Luukas

I sent the following message to Deutsche Grammophon:

Title: More Blu-ray Audios, please!
"Hello,
I have greatly enjoyed to listen your Blu-ray Audio releases. I have a Blu-ray player and 6-channel surround sound system (5 speakers + 1 subwoofer) and the BD-A releases have brought the performances to life. Resolution (24/96 or even 24/192) is much better than the standard dull quality of CD (16/44.1). We are able to hear more details of the performance and - above all - the spatial impression is more convincing, even in stereo. 
The following recordings were originally recorded in Hi-Res format (96kHz/24bit) except for those that includes a star (*) note. They were also recorded in 192kHz/24bit. Therefore it would be possible to release these on BD-A in the future.

1) Mendelssohn, Bartholdy Felix: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4 and The Hebrides Overture, Op. 26
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
- Recording date: January 1971
- Recording Location: Jesus-Christus-Kirche, Berlin, Germany

2) Rimsky-Korsakov, Nikolai: Scheherazade & Tchaikovsky, Piotr: 1812 Overture, Op. 49 and Capriccio Italien, Op. 45
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
- Recording dates: January 1967 (Scheherazade), October 1966 (Capriccio Italien) & December 1966 (1812 Overture)
- Recording Location: Jesus-Christus-Kirche, Berlin, Germany

3) Dvorak, Antonin: Slavonic Dances, Op. 46 & 72 (complete recording)
Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Rafael Kubelik (conductor)
- Recording date: December 1973
- Recording Location: Residenz, Herkulessaal, Munich, Germany

4) Shostakovich, Dmitri: Symphonies Nos. 5, 8, 9 & 10
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Andris Nelsons (conductor)
- Recording dates: November 2015 (Symphony No. 5), March 2016 (Symphony No. 8), October 2015 (Symphony No. 9) & 2015 (Symphony No. 10) (Live recordings)
- Recording Location: Symphony Hall, Boston, United States

5) Bach, Johann Sebastian: Christmas Oratorio, BWV248 (complete recording)*
Munchener Bach-Choir, Munchener Bach-Orchester, Karl Richter (conductor)
- Recording date: March 1965
- Recording Location: Residenz, Herkulessaal, Munich, Germany

6) Ravel, Maurice: Piano Concertos & Faure, Gabriel: Ballade
Yuja Wang (piano), Tonhalle-Orchester Zurich, Lionel Bringuier (conductor)
- Recording dates: April 2015 (Ravel) & May 2015 (Faure)
- Recording Locations: Tonhalle Zurich (Ravel) & Teldex Studio, Berlin (Faure)

7) Gluck, Willibald: Orfeo ed Euridice (Vienna version 1762)
Insula Orchestra, Laurence Equilbey (conductor)
- Recording date: April 2015 (Live)
- Recording Location: Theatre de Poissy, France

8) Brahms, Johannes: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
Daniel Barenboim (piano), Staatskapelle Berlin, Gustavo Dudamel (conductor)
- Recording date: September 2014 (Live)
- Recording Location: Berliner Philharmonie

9) Claudio Abbado - The Last Recordings (Bruckner, Anton: Symphony No. 9 & Schubert, Franz: Symphony No. 9 "Great" in C major, D944) 
Orchestra Mozart (Schubert), Lucerne Festival Orchestra (Bruckner), Claudio Abbado (conductor)
- Recording dates: September 2011 (Schubert) & August 2013 (Bruckner)
- Recording Locations: Auditorium Teatro Manzoni, Bologna, Italy (Schubert) & KKL, Lucerne, Switzerland (Bruckner)

10) Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Symphonies Nos. 35-41
Berliner Philharmoniker, Karl Böhm (conductor)
Recorded between 1959-1966 at the Jesus-Christus-Kirche, Berlin, Germany

11) Tchaikovsky, Piotr: Symphonies Nos. 4-6 
Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra, Evgeny Mravinsky (conductor)
- Recording dates: September 1960 (Symphony No. 4) & November 1960 (Symphonies Nos. 5 & 6)
- Recording Locations: Brent Town Hall, Wembley, London, United Kingdom (Symphony No. 4) & Grosser Saal, Musikverein, Wien, Austria (Symphonies Nos. 5 & 6)

12) Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Violin Concerto No. 5 in A major, K219 "Turkish" & Vieuxtemps, Henri: Violin Concerto No. 4 in D minor, Op. 31
Hilary Hahn (violin), The Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, Paavo Järvi (conductor)
- Recording date: December 2012 (Mozart) & August 2013 (Vieuxtemps)
- Recording Locations: Kammer-Philharmonie, Bremen, Germany (Mozart) & Gut Varrel, Stuhr, Germany (Vieuxtemps)

13) Strauss, Richard: Four Last Songs & Ein Heldenleben, Op. 40
Anna Netrebko (soprano), Staatskapelle Berlin, Daniel Barenboim (conductor)
- Recording date: August 2014 (Live)
- Recording Location: Philharmonie, Berlin, Germany

14) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 7 in E minor "The Song of the Night"
Simón Bolívar Symphony Orchestra of Venezuela, Gustavo Dudamel (conductor)
- Recording date: March 2012
- Recording Location: Centro de Acción Social por la Música, Sala Simón Bolivar, Caracas, Venezuela

15) Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra (Thus spoke Zarathustra), Don Juan & Till Eulenspiegel's lustige Streiche (Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Gustavo Dudamel (conductor)
- Recording dates: April 2012 (Zarathustra) & February 2013 (Don Juan & Eulenspiegel) (Live)
- Recording Location: Philharmonie, Berlin, Germany

16) Rachmaninov, Sergei: Trio élégiaque No. 1 in G minor, Op. post. & Tchaikovsky, Piotr: 
Piano Trio in A minor, Op. 50 'In Memory of a Great Artist'
Lang Lang (piano) Vadim Repin (violin) & Mischa Maisky (cello)
- Recording date: August 2009
- Recording Location: Theater Itzehoe, Großes Haus, Germany

17) Saint-Saens, Camille: Symphony No. 3 in C minor, Op. 78 "Organ Symphony", Bacchanale from Samson et Dalila, Prelude to Le Deluge Op. 45 & Danse Macabre, Op. 40
Gaston Litaize (organ), Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Orchestre de Paris, Daniel Barenboim (conductor)
- Recording dates: May 1975 (Symphony), July 1978 (Bacchanale) & October 1980 (Prelude & Danse Macabre)
- Recording Locations: Medinah Temple, Chicago, United States (Symphony) & Maison de la Mutualité, Paris, France (Bacchanale, Prelude & Danse Macabre)

18) Tchaikovsky, Piotr: Ballet Suites (Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, Nutcracker)
Berliner Philharmoniker, Mstislav Rostropovich (conductor)
- Recording date: June 1978
- Recording Location: Philharmonie, Berlin, Germany

19) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 9 in D major*
Berliner Philharmoniker, Leonard Bernstein (conductor)
- Recording date: October 1979 (Live)
- Recording Location: Philharmonie, Berlin, Germany

20) Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute), K620 (complete recording)
Berliner Philharmoniker, RIAS Kammerchor, Karl Böhm (conductor)
- Recording date: June 1964
- Recording Location: Jesus-Christus-Kirche, Berlin, Germany

In addition to these you should release the following albums on one (1) Blu-ray Audio:

1) Sibelius, Jean: Tone Poems (Karelia Suite, Luonnotar, Andante festivo, The Oceadines, King Christian II (incidental music), Finlandia, Pohjola's Daughter, Night Ride and Sunrise, Lemminkäinen Suite (complete), En Saga, Spring Song, Incidental music to Kuolema [Death], The Bard & Tapiola)
Soile Isokoski (soprano) Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra, Neeme Järvi (conductor)
Recorded between 1992-1996 at the Concert House, Gothenburg, Sweden
"_Next year marks the 60th Anniversary of Sibelius's death (1957-2017). This Blu-ray Audio would be a perfect way to celebrate this jubilee. Thanks to the huge capacity of Blu-ray these works can be released on one disc for the first time_".

2) Tchaikovsky, Piotr: Symphonic Poems (Romeo & Juliet, Francesca da Rimini, The Voyevoda, The Tempest, Marche Slave, Festival Overture on the Danish National Anthem, Fatum, Hamlet, Capriccio Italien, Overture in F major, 1812 Overture)
Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Pletnev (conductor)
Recorded between 1993-1996 at the Great Hall, State Conservatory, Moscow, Russia
"_Pletnev's Tchaikovsky cycle for Deutsche Grammophon received numerous awards back then. Now, over 20 year later, the new generation of dedicated audiophiles will be able to enjoy these captivating performances with spectacularly realistic sound_".

3) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 10 in F sharp major (Completed by Deryck Cooke)
Wiener Philharmoniker, Daniel Harding (conductor)
- Recording date: October 2007
- Recording Location: Grosser Saal, Musikverein, Wien, Austria
"_The music of Mahler requires the Hi-Res format. The composer knew the effects of the cinematic harmonies and instrumental distributions. The greater dynamic range of this BD-A re-release will bring the warmth of this beautiful work to the listener's skin_".

4) Tchaikovsky, Piotr: Eugene Onegin (complete opera)
Thomas Allen (Eugene Onegin), Mirella Freni (Tatyana), Anne Sofie von Otter (Olga), Neil Shicoff (Lensky), Rosemary Lang (Larina), Ruthild Engert (Filipyevna), Paata Burchuladze (Gremin), Michel Sénéchal (Triquet), Gunther Emmerlich (Zaretzky), Jürgen Hartfiel (Captain)
Staatskapelle Dresden, James Levine (conductor)
- Recording date: June 1987
- Recording Location: Lukaskirche, Dresden, Germany

5) Weber, Carl Maria von: Der Freischutz (complete opera)
Gundula Janowitz (Agathe), Edith Mathis (Ännchen), Peter Schreier (Max), Theo Adam (Kaspar), Franz Crass (Hermit), Siegfried Vogel (Kuno), Bernd Weikl (Ottokar), Günther Leib (Kilian), Gerhard Paul (Zamiel)
Rundfunkchor Leipzig, Staatskapelle Dresden, Carlos Kleiber
- Recording date: February 1973
- Recording Location: Lukaskirche, Dresden, Germany
"_Kleiber's galvanic recording of Weber's masterwork has been a clear first choice for many. Remastered to the highest possible audio quality (192kHz/24bit) this BD-A gives a great opportunity to hear every details of this legendary performance_".

6) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 6 in A minor "Tragic"
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (conductor)
- Recording date: March 1977
- Recording Location: Philharmonie, Berlin, Germany
"_Alongside with Mahler's 5th (which already has been released on Blu-ray Audio) this recording of the composer's "Tragic" Symphony No. 6 was another gem of Karajan. Gramophone's reviewer James Jolly wrote: "One of Karajan's earliest encounters with Mahler resulted in a powerful and intense experience…". The engineers of Emil Berliner Studios have taken the original master tapes to their skillful hands and have brought out a breathtaking re-release_".

7) Berlioz, Hector: Te Deum, Op. 22
Francisco Araiza (tenor), European Community Youth Orchestra, London Symphony Orchestra, London Philharmonic Choir, Wooburn Singers, St Albans School Choir, The Haberdashers' Aske's School Choir, The Southend Boys' Choir, Desborough School Choir, Claudio Abbado (conductor)
- Recording date: August 1981
- Recording Location: St. Alban's Abbey, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom

Quotes are just my suggestions for the descriptions. Originally these were not Hi-Res recordings (except for Mahler's 10th which was recorded in 96kHz/24bit) but it might be possible to make the new "upsample remastering". You just have to convert the 44.1kHz/16bit (or 44.1kHz/24bit) source to 94kHz/24bit or even to 192kHz/24bit for the Blu-ray Audio release.
I look forward to see the first album!
With best regards,
Luukas".

Few minutes ago I received their answer:

"Dear Mr. Hiltunen,

Thank you very much for your email and your interest in Deutsche Grammophon.
Your suggestions are very much appreciated! I will pass your email on to my colleagues at the catalogue department. *As soon as plans become concrete, we will get in touch with you*.

With best wishes,
Miguel Neiva

Deutsche Grammophon Customer Service Team"


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## Pugg

> Thank you very much for your email and your interest in Deutsche Grammophon.
> Your suggestions are very much appreciated! I will pass your email on to my colleagues at the catalogue department. As soon as plans become concrete, we will get in touch with you.
> 
> With best wishes,
> Miguel Neiva
> 
> Deutsche Grammophon Customer Service Team


Getting an answer alone is worth a like, well done Luukas.


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## Biwa

Picked up these 4 MDG releases today.


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## Luukas

View attachment 89910

The Sibelius/Davis box set arrived today. BD-A brings the orchestra into your listening room. Wonderfully detailed sound with pleasant ambience from the rear speakers. Highly recommended!


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## Luukas

Few hours ago I bought my 26th RQR album:
View attachment 90642

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5
Mendelssohn: Symphony No. 4 "Italian"
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Boston Symphony Orchestra
Sir Colin Davis (conductor)
PTC 51861021

There has not been more RQR albums for 2017, yet. But I'm pretty sure that PENTATONE will show them within few days when they are going to present the new season. So, be patient!


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## staxomega

I have a handful of the Pentatone SACDs, but can only play the stereo portions since I'm 2-channel/headphones only (apartment life  ). Could someone describe these quad mixes- do they place you in the center of the orchestra with instruments in the rear channels or are they just for ambiance?

One thing I've noticed with the stereo mixes from these SACDs is they have a very wide left to right soundstage with not much in the center.


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## Luukas

staxomega said:


> I have a handful of the Pentatone SACDs, but can only play the stereo portions since I'm 2-channel/headphones only (apartment life  ). Could someone describe these quad mixes- do they place you in the center of the orchestra with instruments in the rear channels or are they just for ambiance?
> 
> One thing I've noticed with the stereo mixes from these SACDs is they have a very wide left to right soundstage with not much in the center.


Hi, staxomega!
The rear speakers are mainly used for ambience, especially with orchestral music. But the opera releases (Carmen, La damnation de Faust and Tosca, for example) uses the rear speakers for the cinematic effects, too. The distant trumpet fanfare in the 1st Act of Carmen can be heard from the right surround speaker, for instance. A little clarification: I have listened my RQR albums in multichannel.


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## Triplets

If you want to be placed smack in the middle of an Orchestra or instrumental ensemble, the Surround Sound recordings on the Tacet label will place you there unapologetically


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## Luukas

View attachment 90695

View attachment 90694

IT IS MY LUCKY DAY!  I received a factory sealed NEW extremely rare SACD copy of Riccardo Chailly's acclaimed Mahler's Ninth!  And the price was very low, 20£! Although recorded in 2004 the surround sound have just four channels - so-called quadraphonic recording, then. And one of the very few original DSD recordings of Decca Classics. I'm satisfied. Cheers!


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## pcnog11

I rather listen to a high end stereo that can put you in the central section of a concert hall. I had experience of listening that sounds like the speakers disappeared from your eyes and even your ears cannot identify where it is. The sound stage of the reproduction was so wide and deep that you are almost listening in a concert hall. You can almost 'see' how the conductor direct the orchestra.


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## Luukas

WOW! Looks great!!!! 

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Chandos/CHSA5179


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## Luukas

I just bought these SACDs:

1) Nielsen, Carl: Symphonies Nos. 1-6 (complete)
London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Colin Davis (conductor)
LSO 0789 (3 SACD Hybrid + 1 Pure Audio Blu-ray)

2) Mendelssohn, Bartholdy Felix: A Midsummer Night's Dream - incidental music, Op. 64 (pre-order)
Actors from the Guildhall School, Monteverdi Choir, London Symphony Orchestra, Sir John Eliot Gardiner (conductor)
LSO 0795 (SACD Hybrid + Pure Audio Blu-ray)

3) Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 3 in D minor
Petra Lang (mezzo-soprano), Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Riccardo Chailly (conductor)
Decca Classics 470 652-2 (2 discs)

4) Holst, Gustav: The Planets, Op. 32 & Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30 (pre-order)
CBSO Youth Chorus & National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain, Edward Gardner (conductor)
Chandos CHSA5179

5) Bernstein, Leonard: Symphonic Dances from "West Side Story", Candide Overture, Three Dance Variations from "Fancy Free" & Three Dance Episodes from "On the Town"
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Carl Davis (conductor)
Membran Music 222815

They were brand new albums, except for the Bernstein/Davis one. Happy New Year for everybody!


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## Triplets

Hey Luukas--can you recommend a good surround sound recording of The Nutcracker--complete ballet?


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Hey Luukas--can you recommend a good surround sound recording of The Nutcracker--complete ballet?


Oh yes, of course. I think that this is the best:

View attachment 91092
View attachment 91093

Tchaikovsky: The Nutcracker (complete)
Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra
Neeme Järvi (conductor)
Chandos Super Audio CD (CHAN 5144)


----------



## Luukas

Hello,

Do you have any experiences with SHM-SACDs?

"SHM-SACD (Super High Material SACD) is the ultimate Super Audio CD that utilizes the materials and technologies that were developed for the SHM-CD to further enhance the audio-resolution. These discs are made with polycarbonate developed for the screen of the liquid crystal display. As it has a higher transparency, players can read the signal more faithfully. Also, it excels in fluidity, which enables you to cast a more accurate pit. What works wonders for a low resolution format such as CD should offer even greater sonic improvements in a real high resolution format such as SACD. 

Features:
• SHM-SACD
• 2-channel Single Layer SACD
• Two-channel SACD layer only, to secure enough reflectance and not to compress DSD file.
• Label of the disc is printed with a special green ink called 'Onsho Shiyou,' which minimizes diffuse reflection.
• Carefully selected master audio is used, from existing DSD files to newly converted from analog tapes.
• This disc will ONLY work on a Super Audio Disc Player".

I have plans to order these Japan SHM-SACD releases:

1) Sibelius: Finlandia, The Swan of Tuonela, Valse Triste, Tapiola
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (UCGG-9069)
2) Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites Nos. 1 & 2 - Sibelius: Pelleas et Melisande
Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (UCGG-9068)


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## Pugg

I must admit, never ever heard about it also, I held my head in shame.


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## Biwa

I have some SHM-SACDs. I am not sure whether or not the special polycarbonate material actually makes that big of a difference. I think SHM-SACDs main advantages are that most of these contain good remasterings and that they were transferred directly to DSD. I believe some of the early ones were done from PCM files. But, most seem to be from DSD sources. The "analog to DSD" remastering makes what many listeners feel to be the closest thing to the warm, natural sound of analog that digital can offer.


----------



## jegreenwood

Biwa said:


> I have some SHM-SACDs. I am not sure whether or not the special polycarbonate material actually makes that big of a difference. I think SHM-SACDs main advantages are that most of these contain good remasterings and that they were transferred directly to DSD. I believe some of the early ones were done from PCM files. But, most seem to be from DSD sources. The "analog to DSD" remastering makes what many listeners feel to be the closest thing to the warm, natural sound of analog that digital can offer.


Agree with this. I ordered a bunch - mostly jazz, but several classic rock titles when they were offered at a lower price in less elaborate packaging (and at a good exchange rate). I'm pretty sure the sound quality derives from good remastering.


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## Pugg

Biwa said:


> I have some SHM-SACDs. I am not sure whether or not the special polycarbonate material actually makes that big of a difference. I think SHM-SACDs main advantages are that most of these contain good remasterings and that they were transferred directly to DSD. I believe some of the early ones were done from PCM files. But, most seem to be from DSD sources. The "analog to DSD" remastering makes what many listeners feel to be the closest thing to the warm, natural sound of analog that digital can offer.


We missed you


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> We missed you


Thanks! Been off in la la land. 

About SHM-SACDs, Ernest Ansermet - Falla: El Sombrero De Tres Picos is excellent.

https://www.amazon.com/Falla-El-Som...sr=8-6&keywords=SACD+sombrero#customerReviews


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## Luukas

Wow, this gonna be great!  The last addition to Vänskä's critically acclaimed Sibelius cycle!
View attachment 91492
View attachment 91493

Sibelius: Kullervo / Kortekangas: Migrations
Lilli Paasikivi (mezzo-soprano)
Tommi Hakala (baritone)
YL Male Voice Choir
Minnesota Orchestra
Osmo Vänskä (conductor)
BIS (SACD) BIS-9048 (2 discs)


----------



## Triplets

Luukas said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do you have any experiences with SHM-SACDs?
> 
> "SHM-SACD (Super High Material SACD) is the ultimate Super Audio CD that utilizes the materials and technologies that were developed for the SHM-CD to further enhance the audio-resolution. These discs are made with polycarbonate developed for the screen of the liquid crystal display. As it has a higher transparency, players can read the signal more faithfully. Also, it excels in fluidity, which enables you to cast a more accurate pit. What works wonders for a low resolution format such as CD should offer even greater sonic improvements in a real high resolution format such as SACD.
> 
> Features:
> • SHM-SACD
> • 2-channel Single Layer SACD
> • Two-channel SACD layer only, to secure enough reflectance and not to compress DSD file.
> • Label of the disc is printed with a special green ink called 'Onsho Shiyou,' which minimizes diffuse reflection.
> • Carefully selected master audio is used, from existing DSD files to newly converted from analog tapes.
> • This disc will ONLY work on a Super Audio Disc Player".
> 
> I have plans to order these Japan SHM-SACD releases:
> 
> 1) Sibelius: Finlandia, The Swan of Tuonela, Valse Triste, Tapiola
> Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (UCGG-9069)
> 2) Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites Nos. 1 & 2 - Sibelius: Pelleas et Melisande
> Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan (UCGG-9068)


Ironically, I was just looking atthose same discs on the CD-japan site yesterday. No, I haven't purchased any of them


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## Luukas

BIS SACD potential album covers:

View attachment 91530

Elgar, Edward: Enigma Variations & In the South
Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra, Sakari Oramo
View attachment 91531

Liszt, Franz: Dante Symphony & Les Preludes
Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Yannick Nezet-Seguin
View attachment 91532

Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 10 (Deryck Cooke version)
Minnesota Orchestra, Osmo Vänskä
View attachment 91533

Shostakovich, Dmitri: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
Yevgeny Sudbin, Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, Mark Wigglesworth
View attachment 91534

Sibelius, Jean: Scaramouche, Op. 71 (complete ballet)
Lahti Symphony Orchestra, Dima Slobodeniouk


----------



## Luukas

View attachment 91580
View attachment 91581

Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor
Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle (conductor)
Warner Music Japan (WPGS-50030)

Has anybody heard this? It's 5.1-channel surround, mastered in DSD.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

What do you did of this for a price on a Sansui Quad receiver, I'm thinking a bit exy...........

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/camp...tereo-quad-am-fm-receiver-1978-79-/1135836980


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> View attachment 91580
> View attachment 91581
> 
> Mahler, Gustav: Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor
> Berliner Philharmoniker, Sir Simon Rattle (conductor)
> Warner Music Japan (WPGS-50030)
> 
> Has anybody heard this? It's 5.1-channel surround, mastered in DSD.


I haven't had the opportunity to hear this 5.1 recording. Looking at reviews on the net, though... I get the feeling that the DVD video version is the one to have. It is well filmed and offers DTS 5.1. Either way, this doesn't seem to be a "must" recording of M5. You have Abbado's Mahler set on bluray, right? That set is immensely satisfying IMHO.


----------



## Biwa

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> What do you did of this for a price on a Sansui Quad receiver, I'm thinking a bit exy...........
> 
> http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/camp...tereo-quad-am-fm-receiver-1978-79-/1135836980


Tempting! :devil:

I know quite a few people who are into those old Quad systems. Like a classic car, they are definitely a labor of love...repairs, parts, accessories, etc... If I had more time & money, perhaps... But I've got my hands full enough as it is. Oh well...maybe in the next life.


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## Luukas

The other day I noticed that HDTT (High Definition Tape Transfers) has released a slight amount of quadraphonic recordings on Blu-ray Audio, recorded by RCA. Direct link to the site: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/blu-ray-audio/4-0-surround
Have you heard any of them? And are they packed to the ordinary Blu-ray jewel cases? I want to see few pictures if there's somebody who has collected those.


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> The other day I noticed that HDTT (High Definition Tape Transfers) has released a slight amount of quadraphonic recordings on Blu-ray Audio, recorded by RCA. Direct link to the site: https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/blu-ray-audio/4-0-surround
> Have you heard any of them? And are they packed to the ordinary Blu-ray jewel cases? I want to see few pictures if there's somebody who has collected those.


I've been eyeing those HDTT BD-As for quite a while, but have yet to take the plunge. I am up to my ears in other discs. LOL! Sorry I couldn't be of more help.  Our friend Ralphie over on QQ loves them and warmly recommends them. Send him a PM over there if you want more info. But I'd say go for it if you see a title that interests you.

Btw, Dutton has recently been remastering 1970s Quad recordings and releasing the on SACDs. So far ...Most of them have been popular music. But this year, I believe they're going to release more classical Quad recordings.

Check out their website... http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/blog/


----------



## Triplets

No experience with the Label. The listings that I looked seem to have awfully short timings


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## Biwa

Triplets said:


> No experience with the Label. The listings that I looked seem to have awfully short timings


Which label? HDTT or Dutton? HDTT might be a little sketchy...about their licensing. I could be wrong. But...with the downloading/file sharing free-for-all going on these days, does it really matter?

Dutton is legit. Yes, many of those titles are short because that's how long recordings were back in the early/mid 70s. Anyway, Dutton offers many of them as Twofers...2 albums on 1 SACD.


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## pcnog11

If you listen to a multi-channel recording other than stereo, say 5.1 or quadraphonic. Are are the 4 speakers the same front and back to get the best sound? This could be another level of investment to leverage the best possible sound.


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## Triplets

pcnog11 said:


> If you listen to a multi-channel recording other than stereo, say 5.1 or quadraphonic. Are are the 4 speakers the same front and back to get the best sound? This could be another level of investment to leverage the best possible sound.


Most multichannel recordings use the information in the rears for ambience, so perhaps 10% of the same content that comes through the front two or 3 speakers. The major exception noted on this thread is with the tacet Label, which treats all speakers equally and aims to put the listener in the middle of the ensemble. Excepting Tacet, a multichannel system would be wise to match and put the bulk of the investment in the first 3 speakers, and the rears could be from a different manufacturer and in general be much smaller than the fronts


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> BIS SACD potential album covers:
> 
> View attachment 91531
> 
> Liszt, Franz: Dante Symphony & Les Preludes
> Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Yannick Nezet-Seguin
> 
> View attachment 91533
> 
> Shostakovich, Dmitri: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
> Yevgeny Sudbin, Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, Mark Wigglesworth
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Those two looking very interesting.


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## Luukas

Pugg said:


> Luukas said:
> 
> 
> 
> BIS SACD potential album covers:
> 
> View attachment 91531
> 
> Liszt, Franz: Dante Symphony & Les Preludes
> Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, Yannick Nezet-Seguin
> 
> View attachment 91533
> 
> Shostakovich, Dmitri: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2
> Yevgeny Sudbin, Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, Mark Wigglesworth
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Those two looking very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Pugg, do not get me wrong. I sent these pictures to BIS and they answered:
> 
> "_Hi Luukas,
> 
> Thank you for you mail and your pictures. How lovely that you have this enthusiasm for BIS and for design! I can't say if any of the suggested recordings will be made in the coming years but thank you for your input.
> 
> All the best,
> Jenny_"
> 
> Well, probably they are going to release these someday in the future. Their plans are still quite unclear. However, we definitely need another hi-res album of Shostakovich's Piano Concertos. After their successful symphony cycle, Wigglesworth and NRPO should record these captivating works in surround sound for BIS. Yevgeny Sudbin could be a perfect soloist for the album.
> And Nezet-Seguin has recorded wonderful albums with Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra (Strauss: Ein Heldenleben, Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe & Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique). This Liszt disc (coupled later with "Faust Symphony") might be a realistic continuation to this series.
> 
> Sorry for the confusing post.
Click to expand...


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## Pugg

No problem Luukas, I'll keep checking your posts.


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## Varick

I have never understood the desire to have anything more than a two speaker system (maybe perhaps a front center speaker, but if you are in the right location to both right & left speaker and the engineering on the album is good, then the sound will often sound like it's coming from the center) when it comes to music.

We have two ears, when we go to hear live music, it's always in front of us. Dynamic range can be heard on a good stereo with a well engineered CD or Album.

Now when it comes to movies, I get it. It's visual. In life, sound comes from all around us, but with music, you run the fear of feedback and sound waves interfering with each other. I don't want to hear cellos, violins, timpani, or pianos coming from behind me when listening to my music.

In a car, I also get it. Very few cars (if any) have the ability to block out enough outside noise to make even the most expensive car-audio sound system come close to a good home hi-fi system. So you want the sound to be around you to make up for certain sounds, ranges, and frequencies that get muted due to outside noise, limitations in speaker size/quality/location, and other factors that interfere with sound in a car.

I'm not trying to be incendiary here, but I am wondering where the fans of quadraphonic recordings think I'm off base here or have it wrong, so to speak. Just curious. Thank you.

V


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## Pugg

> Now when it comes to movies, I get it. It's visual. In life, sound comes from all around us, but with music, you run the fear of feedback and sound waves interfering with each other. I don't want to hear cellos, violins, timpani, or pianos coming from behind me when listening to my music.


I do think you answered your own question. In the concert hall it's the same, read Luukas and Biwa's in depth post and love for this kind of CD'S.


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## DaveM

Varick said:


> I have never understood the desire to have anything more than a two speaker system (maybe perhaps a front center speaker, but if you are in the right location to both right & left speaker and the engineering on the album is good, then the sound will often sound like it's coming from the center) when it comes to music.
> 
> We have two ears, when we go to hear live music, it's always in front of us. Dynamic range can be heard on a good stereo with a well engineered CD or Album.
> 
> Now when it comes to movies, I get it. It's visual. In life, sound comes from all around us, but with music, you run the fear of feedback and sound waves interfering with each other. I don't want to hear cellos, violins, timpani, or pianos coming from behind me when listening to my music.
> 
> In a car, I also get it. Very few cars (if any) have the ability to block out enough outside noise to make even the most expensive car-audio sound system come close to a good home hi-fi system. So you want the sound to be around you to make up for certain sounds, ranges, and frequencies that get muted due to outside noise, limitations in speaker size/quality/location, and other factors that interfere with sound in a car.
> 
> I'm not trying to be incendiary here, but I am wondering where the fans of quadraphonic recordings think I'm off base here or have it wrong, so to speak. Just curious. Thank you.
> 
> V


Most classical recordings to a greater or lesser extent attempt to provide a concert hall experience. Typically, not only in a concert hall, but also in normal life, we live in a multi-channel environment and there is considerable science regarding how the pinnae of our ears were designed to give us 360 degree directional hearing.

In a live concert hall experience, we hear direct sound coming from the soundstage -left, center, right- but that sound bounces off the walls to our sides and behind us, not to mention off the ceiling and arrives back to our ears in milliseconds which, of course, is the ambience. The amount of delay before these secondary sounds reach us depends on the architectural design of the hall. In any event, the concert hall hearing experience is that of surround sound.

The original aim and intent of the engineering/production behind quadraphonic classical recordings was to provide the ambience that is lost (to some extent, but not completely) in stereo-only recordings. Most quad recordings directed only ambient information to the rear channels, but a few, particularly the RCA CD-4 variety (which was discrete 4-channel), sometimes extended the surround sound to the point that you felt like you were sitting almost in the middle of the orchestra. Of course, that wasn't a realistic audience position, but I rather liked it. If the recording was something like the Beethoven Violin Concerto, I had my baton ready and simply assumed the position of the conductor.


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## Varick

DaveM said:


> The original aim and intent of the engineering/production behind quadraphonic classical recordings was to provide the ambience that is lost (to some extent, but not completely) in stereo-only recordings. Most quad recordings directed only ambient information to the rear channels, but a few, particularly the RCA CD-4 variety (which was discrete 4-channel), sometimes extended the surround sound to the point that you felt like you were sitting almost in the middle of the orchestra. Of course, that wasn't a realistic audience position, but I rather liked it. If the recording was something like the Beethoven Violin Concerto, I had my baton ready and simply assumed the position of the conductor.


Great explanation Dave, you are correct about a hall that has great reverberation and acoustic design. Having lived in or near New York City almost all my life, I always love going to Carnegie Hall and dread going to Avery Fisher Hall (Lincoln Center) which I try to avoid for those reasons.

If that was the original intent of only engineering ambient sounds to the rear speakers, then I understand. From reading some of this thread (didn't read all 13 pages), I was under the impression that sound from the rear speakers were/are just as loud as the front speakers.

My ears were opened when I was a teenager and I was at a friend's house who's father was an audiophile. He talked to me about great sound engineering and dynamic sound. He sat me in front of his speakers in his listening chair, told me to close my eyes and listen. He put on an album and it was amazing. He kept asking me where I heard the instruments, and it was unlike anything I had ever heard. Just through two speakers, I heard the Hammond B3 on the left side in the back. I heard the rhythm guitar in front of the B3, I heard the bass in front on the right, the lead guitar in the middle, the drums in back in the middle and so on. I remember him laughing at the stories of celebrities with 20 or so speakers in their car saying it was a complete waste of money.

Anyway, Hopefully soon, I will get an opportunity to hear a good quadrophonic CD on a great 4 channel system and judge for myself. Cheers!

V


----------



## Luukas

Varick said:


> Great explanation Dave, you are correct about a hall that has great reverberation and acoustic design. Having lived in or near New York City almost all my life, I always love going to Carnegie Hall and dread going to Avery Fisher Hall (Lincoln Center) which I try to avoid for those reasons.
> 
> If that was the original intent of only engineering ambient sounds to the rear speakers, then I understand. From reading some of this thread (didn't read all 13 pages), I was under the impression that sound from the rear speakers were/are just as loud as the front speakers.
> 
> My ears were opened when I was a teenager and I was at a friend's house who's father was an audiophile. He talked to me about great sound engineering and dynamic sound. He sat me in front of his speakers in his listening chair, told me to close my eyes and listen. He put on an album and it was amazing. He kept asking me where I heard the instruments, and it was unlike anything I had ever heard. Just through two speakers, I heard the Hammond B3 on the left side in the back. I heard the rhythm guitar in front of the B3, I heard the bass in front on the right, the lead guitar in the middle, the drums in back in the middle and so on. I remember him laughing at the stories of celebrities with 20 or so speakers in their car saying it was a complete waste of money.
> 
> Anyway, Hopefully soon, I will get an opportunity to hear a good quadrophonic CD on a great 4 channel system and judge for myself. Cheers!
> 
> V


Hi Varick,

PENTATONE has released a significant amount of classical quadraphonic recordings on Super Audio CD. I have collected about 30 albums and they have been simply stunning listening experiences. Remastered using DSD technology the geniuses at Polyhymnia have managed to restore the original beauty of these recordings in full glory. They works very well with 6-channel surround sound systems.

- 4-channel recordings of Philips Classics: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/8
- 4-channel recordings of Deutsche Grammophon:
http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/4

This year we will receive more Deutsche Grammophon recordings. The new season will be announced soon and then we'll be able to see the planning releases. I think they have had some problems with the licence agreements, hence this long silence.


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## Luukas

I have said this before but most likely these 4-channel recordings of Deutsche Grammophon will see their original splendour this year:

1) Berlioz, Hector: Roméo et Juliette, Op. 17 (complete)
Julia Hamari (mezzo-soprano), Jean Dupouy (tenor), José van Dam (bass), New England Conservatory Chorus (Lorna Cooke DeVaron, chorus director), Boston Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa (conductor)
- Recorded in October 1975 at the Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Produced by Thomas Mowrey and Hans-Peter Schweigmann
Producer's note: _I produced this recording for Deutsche Grammophon. It was recorded 8-track on 1-inch tape, and I mixed it simultaneously to 2-track stereo for LP release and to 4-track surround in the same fashion as I did the Carmen, Damnation of Faust, Symphonie Fantastique and Treemonisha recordings which have just been released - that is, with 360-degree direct sound sources, rather than just hall ambiance in the side/back channels. It is an exciting performance and recording_. (Thomas Mowrey)

2) Bernstein, Leonard: Symphonic Dances from West Side Story
Gershwin, George: An American in Paris 
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa (conductor)
- Produced by Thomas Mowrey

3) Holst, Gustav: The Planets, Op. 32 & Strauss, Richard: Also sprach Zarathustra
New England Conservatory Chorus, Boston Symphony Orchestra, Pinchas Steinberg (conductor)
- Recorded in 1970 and in 1971 at the Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Produced by Karl Faust, Thomas Mowrey and Rainer Brock
- Balance engineer: Günter Hermanns

4) Liszt, Franz: A Faust Symphony
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Leonard Bernstein
- Produced by Thomas Mowrey

5) Ravel, Maurice: Orchestral Works Volume 2 (includes Daphnis et Chloe - complete ballet)
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Seiji Ozawa (conductor)
- Recorded in 1974 at the Symphony Hall, Boston, United States
- Produced by Thomas Mowrey


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## Luukas

HURRAY, more quad remasters!

May 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Puccini - La Fanciulla del West
Zubin Mehta, Placido Domingo , Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden 
Giacomo Puccini

July 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra & Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Seiji Ozawa, Raphael Kubelik , Boston Symphony Orchestra 
Béla Bartók

They will add more albums soon. However, Beethoven's Missa Solemnis (Marek Janowski) looks very interesting, too. The first MCH SACD of this work!

Check the release planning list: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases


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## Pugg

> Check the release planning list: http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases


This is nice to see, almost a year ahead, bravo.


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## Biwa

I picked up this DVD-A of Christian Thielemann's 1998 performance of Orff's Carmina Burana today. Good performance by all involved. The surround mix is wonderful, too. Nice, natural depth to the soundstage. Only the warmth of the strings is let down a little by the early Hirez recording (24/48).


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## Biwa

Beethoven: Symphony No. 9

Bomi Lee (soprano), Agnieszka Rehlis (alto), Krystian Adam Krzeszowiak (tenor), Tareq Nazmi (bass)
Polish Chamber Choir Schola, Cantorum Gedanensis
Polish Chamber Philharmonic Orchestra
Wojciech Rajski (conductor)

Finally, got a copy. Just now listening to it. Fantastic! Love the separation of the instruments.


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## Pugg

Luukas / Biwa: jpc.de having sale on Pentatone, maybe something in it for you.


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## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Luukas / Biwa: jpc.de having sale on Pentatone, maybe something in it for you.


Thanks for the heads up, Pugg!


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## Luukas

Like my site in order to receive the latest news on the ground of hi-res media: https://www.facebook.com/audiophileguy/


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## Triplets

Varick said:


> I have never understood the desire to have anything more than a two speaker system (maybe perhaps a front center speaker, but if you are in the right location to both right & left speaker and the engineering on the album is good, then the sound will often sound like it's coming from the center) when it comes to music.
> 
> We have two ears, when we go to hear live music, it's always in front of us. Dynamic range can be heard on a good stereo with a well engineered CD or Album.
> 
> Now when it comes to movies, I get it. It's visual. In life, sound comes from all around us, but with music, you run the fear of feedback and sound waves interfering with each other. I don't want to hear cellos, violins, timpani, or pianos coming from behind me when listening to my music.
> 
> In a car, I also get it. Very few cars (if any) have the ability to block out enough outside noise to make even the most expensive car-audio sound system come close to a good home hi-fi system. So you want the sound to be around you to make up for certain sounds, ranges, and frequencies that get muted due to outside noise, limitations in speaker size/quality/location, and other factors that interfere with sound in a car.
> 
> I'm not trying to be incendiary here, but I am wondering where the fans of quadraphonic recordings think I'm off base here or have it wrong, so to speak. Just curious. Thank you.
> 
> V


I've stated many times in this thread, and elsewhere on TC, that the proper approach to a multichannel channel recording is to have the rears play at a greatly reduced level compared to the fronts. This helps supply a sense of ambience that approximates a good concert hall. Halls with good acoustics will have some reverberation from reflected sound that envelopes the listener. Most multichannel recordings follow this practice.
The incorrect approach is to place the listener in the middle of the ensemble. See the posts and comments about the Tacet label


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## Luukas

Guys, it is February and again monthly treasure chest of SACDs is on the way to me:

View attachment 92175

Dvorak, Antonin: Symphony No. 8 in G major, Op. 88
Janacek, Leos: Symphonic Suite from Jenufa (Conceptualized by Manfred Honeck, realized by Tomas Ille)
Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Manfred Honeck, conductor
Reference Recordings FR-710SACD (SACD 5.1 & Stereo / CD Stereo)

View attachment 92176

Sir John Eliot Gardiner conducts Mendelssohn & Schumann
Mendelssohn, Bartholdy Felix: The Hebrides Overture & Symphony No. 3 in A minor 'Scottish'
Schumann, Robert: Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 54
Maria Joao Pires, piano
London Symphony Orchestra
Sir John Eliot Gardiner, conductor
LSO Live LSO0765 (1 Pure Blu-ray Audio / 1 Hybrid SACD)

View attachment 92177

Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus: Mass in C minor (completed by F. Beyer) & Exsultate Jubilate (revised Salzburg version)
Carolyn Sampson (soprano), Olivia Vermeulen (mezzo), Makoto Sakurada (tenor), Christian Immler (bass)
Bach Collegium Japan Chorus & Orchestra
Masaaki Suzuki, conductor
BIS (BIS2171)

View attachment 92178

Saint-Saëns, Camille: The Piano Concertos
Anna Malikova, piano
WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln
Thomas Sanderling, conductor
Audite

View attachment 92179

Tchaikovsky, Piotr Ilyich: Symphony No. 3 in D major, Op. 29 'Polish' & Sleeping Beauty Suite, Op. 66a
Gürzenich-Orchester Köln 
Dmitri Kitajenko, conductor
Oehms Classics


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## Triplets

I have the whole cycle. the 9th is pretty good but it may be the weakest of t he set--the first 8 are really interesting


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## Luukas

Guys, my hi-res library expanded today with this impressive 5-channel SACD of Mahler's 10th Symphony. 
View attachment 92522

Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 10 in F sharp major (performing version by Samale/Mazzuca)
Arnhem Philharmonic Orchestra
Martin Sieghart (conductor)
Exton EXCL-00013 (2 discs)
SACD Stereo/Multichannel Hybrid


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## Triplets

Exton discs are very pricey here in the States. Spreading the Mahler 10 over two discs would be quite an investment. Also, the SACDs that I've seen from Exton are 2 channel only, but I'm assuming yours is a full multichannel mix? How do you like it?
Multichannel recordings of Mahler 10 are hard to come by. I have a Blu Ray that is part of a Mahler set released by the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, a Mahler cycle featuring a different Conductor for each Symphony. The 10th is led by Eliahu Inbal.
Inbal also conducts on my first Mahler 10 that I ever heard , with the Franfurt Radio Orchestra. His interpretation was fairly consistent over a 20 year period.
Luukas-does Sieghart conduct the Deryck Cooke Edition?


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## Luukas

Do you have any experiences with Exton SACDs, Triplets? And preferably in multichannel.


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Exton discs are very pricey here in the States. Spreading the Mahler 10 over two discs would be quite an investment. Also, the SACDs that I've seen from Exton are 2 channel only, but I'm assuming yours is a full multichannel mix? How do you like it?
> Multichannel recordings of Mahler 10 are hard to come by. I have a Blu Ray that is part of a Mahler set released by the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, a Mahler cycle featuring a different Conductor for each Symphony. The 10th is led by Eliahu Inbal.
> Inbal also conducts on my first Mahler 10 that I ever heard , with the Franfurt Radio Orchestra. His interpretation was fairly consistent over a 20 year period.
> Luukas-does Sieghart conduct the Deryck Cooke Edition?


Well, I haven't received the album yet, I just placed the order. The price was quite cheap because the seller was European and the product was used (Like New). But I'm going to insert some pictures and a short review here after the listening.

Concerning to the mixes my SACD copy includes a full multichannel mix (5.1 Surround Sound) beside the regular stereo. I have already collected the only other MC album of complete version - Rattle, BPO, DVD-Audio - but I decided to buy this as an additional option. HRAudio.net reviewed the disc with full five-star results (both artistically and technically) so this has to be great.

And no, Sieghart conducts the edition of Samale/Mazzuca (2001).


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## Luukas

View attachment 92615
View attachment 92616


Few days ago I picked up this multi-channel SACD of Shostakovich's Piano Concertos. Surprisingly the surround sound includes just four channels (4.0 Surround Sound). Classics Today reviewed the album with 9/9 results so I'm excited to hear the results.


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## Triplets

There are quite a few 4.0 mixes out there. Some of the Pentatone reissued Quad discs are 4.0


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> There are quite a few 4.0 mixes out there. Some of the Pentatone reissued Quad discs are 4.0


Yes, I know that. But this was recorded 2002 and wasn't analogue recording. They had a great opportunity to record the album in 5.1 Surround but for some reason they didn't want to do it.


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## Triplets

Bus is releasing some newly recorded material in 4.0 and 5.0. I wish they would pick a standard and stay with it


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## Luukas

Triplets said:


> Bus is releasing some newly recorded material in 4.0 and 5.0. I wish they would pick a standard and stay with it


Really? Oh no, I have loved the way how they use the centre channel... Do you have any examples?


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## Pugg

Maby something for you guys:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Th...ps-20&linkId=6ce7590893062bd26589133f09dafa56


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## Luukas

Well, it looks like that PENTATONE has received some big problems with Deutsche Grammophon reissues. Now the Puccini album - La fanciulla del West - has been removed on the release planning.

http://www.pentatonemusic.com/releases

Perhaps they are just waiting for a confirmation or something before they are able to present the new season with several REMASTERED CLASSICS newcomers.

Meanwhile they should check the vaults of Philips again. I'm pretty sure that there is still dozens of unreleased quadraphonic recordings. As we know, PENTATONE was founded in 2001 by three former executives of Philips Classics, Giel Bessels, Dirk van Dijk and Job Maarse. These guys have worked very hard in order to release all the Philips 4-channel gems. Therefore it might be easier to get licenses for these recordings. Deutsche Grammophon is different label - although a part of the same Universal Music Company - and this has been a main hindrance in order to obtain new licenses, in my view. They have exact details of all old Philips recordings and they know what is still left. I don't believe they have crossed the limit of Philips' archive.

Few weeks ago I talked with Thomas Mowrey on the phone. He confirmed the thing what we have speculated here for months: between 1970-1976 Deutsche Grammophon recorded every single album quadraphonically. If Deutsche Grammophon proceeded on this way, why not Philips?

Check the list, please. If you have some questions or comments, do not hesitate to tell!

View attachment 92747


----------



## Biwa

Luukas said:


> Yes, I know that. But this was recorded 2002 and wasn't analogue recording. They had a great opportunity to record the album in 5.1 Surround but for some reason they didn't want to do it.


I'm with you. For classical (especially large works), I prefer to have a properly utilized center channel. But there are various opinions on 4.0, and 5.1. Some Pop/Rock listeners don't care about the center channel at all. They feel it's unnecessary and strongly advocate the phantom center that 2 front speakers can produce over a separate center speaker. But usually their main complaint about 5.1 is that the surround mix is front heavy. They can't stand the rear speakers being used simply for ambiance.


----------



## Biwa

Pugg said:


> Maby something for you guys:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Th...ps-20&linkId=6ce7590893062bd26589133f09dafa56


Thanks for caring, Pugg :wave:


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## Pugg

JPC Germany has a sale on Pentatone, you can view the Courier online.


( Good seeing you back Biwa, all's well I hope?):cheers:


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## Luukas

September 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 1 & 4
Rafael Kubelik, London Symphony Orchestra, 
Ludwig van Beethoven

October 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 2 & 5
Rafael Kubelik, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Boston Symphony Orchestra, 
Ludwig van Beethoven

November 2017
REMASTERED CLASSICS Beethoven - Symphonies 6, 7 & 8
Rafael Kubelik, Orchestre de Paris,
Ludwig van Beethoven


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## Pugg

I though you given up on us Luukas.
( Do subscribe to the JPC newsletter, they have new offers every month.)


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## Luukas

My "Concert Fantasy on Mozart's Don Juan" was successfully premiered last week. Yesterday (on 31 May) we decided to return to the concert hall and arranged a studio performance. Watch it here:


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## Pugg

Luukas said:


> My "Concert Fantasy on Mozart's Don Juan" was successfully premiered last week. Yesterday (on 31 May) we decided to return to the concert hall and arranged a studio performance. Watch it here:


Never knew you did composing Luukas.
Good job and may I add : good recorded.


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## Luukas

Pugg said:


> Never knew you did composing Luukas.
> Good job and may I add : good recorded.


Thanks, Pugg!


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## Luukas

Well, it looks like we will not receive more RQR albums this year - or probably from this point onwards either. I don't know the reasons (I can only speculate the right answer) but let me say that something is really wrong.

I assume everybody here remember the excitement few years ago when PENTATONE released the first albums to the REMASTERED CLASSICS Series. The fact the yellow label utilized surround sound back then was such a great surprise that even scholars won't believe it. But gradually this ecstasy started to fall down. I was really worried when I noticed this and I sent an email to PENTATONE. It might sound weird but I beg, almost cried for continuation of the series. And surprisingly Dirk van Dijk himself answered: "We will release 10-15 albums for you". These were 10 Philips Classics reissues that were brought out in 2016. 

OK, they have managed to return to DG. But it's not enough. "Over 250 entries are about to be released on SACD" says the article on Stereophile magazine. But it's a lie, at least now. Only 5 albums to be released this year and the next one is yet a mystery. Sorry but WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??!! It seems now the management at DG is trying to avoid surround sound as far as it is possible. And they don't want to give more licenses. OK, I know this hasn't been as simple as I just mentioned (it requires money and time) but still... Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame, Weber's Der Freischütz, Holst's The Planets, Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet... they are all there, ready for SACD productions. But no, "we want to keep these because they are too famous, too valuable". It's all about selfishness - it should be interesting to give a chance to listen to these as they were originally meant to be heard (in surround). 

DG recorded everything in quad between 1970-76 and numerous albums after that continuing it as long as to 1980 when a digital era passed analogue. You can only imagine how many 4-channel recordings are out there: hundreds, even thousands. If just PENTATONE could receive permission for 100 albums - 100 is a minor part from the whole.


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## oxforddickie

I'm afraid some of the information is incorrect, the biggest issue being that Dolby Surround has nothing to do with the QS system.

What Dolby labs actually did was to 'steal' (something they are very well known for) the idea from the SQ system, removed parts of the encoding matrix and switched the phased polarities of the two rear channels (even though it was now only a single channel audio-wise).

But they didn't get away with it, Columbia took them to court for copyright infringement and won.

Although they used SQ as the blueprint, it doesn't mean that Dolby is compatible with SQ, or vice-versa, they obviously hoped the changes they made would cover their deception
!


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## DaveM

oxforddickie said:


> I'm afraid some of the information is incorrect, the biggest issue being that Dolby Surround has nothing to do with the QS system.
> 
> What Dolby labs actually did was to 'steal' (something they are very well known for) the idea from the SQ system, removed parts of the encoding matrix and switched the phased polarities of the two rear channels (even though it was now only a single channel audio-wise).
> 
> But they didn't get away with it, Columbia took them to court for copyright infringement and won.
> 
> Although they used SQ as the blueprint, it doesn't mean that Dolby is compatible with SQ, or vice-versa, they obviously hoped the changes they made would cover their deception
> !


I was incorrect in saying that Dolby bought the QS patent (relied on a faulty memory), but the QS system did figure in the earliest form of Dolby Surround. In 1975 Dolby used the QS matrix under license to create a center (3rd) channel from the left and right channels. This format was used in the movie Lisztomania. The QS matrix was then used again to create a rear (4th) channel which was first used in A Star Was Born and then in 1977 for the iconic Star Wars. This format was the first Dolby 4-channel system. In 1979 the QS matrix was replaced with what Dolby called their own to create the center and rear channels. That may have been the matrix you say was ripped off of SQ. That part I am not familiar with.


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## Biwa

Just thought I'd give this thread a bump.

Last month Dutton Vocalion released another batch of their excellent SACDs of remastered vintage Quad recordings. They have been doing a wonderful job with a nice variety of pop, rock, soul, country, easy-listening, soundtracks and classical. Check links below...

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk

https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/products.php?cat=2

Now listening to...









Stravinsky: Petrouchka*, Pulcinella Suite, Scherzo fantastique, Symphonies of Wind Instruments

Paul Jacobs* (piano)
New York Philharmonic
Pierre Boulez (conductor)


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## Jaybird100

I have many, mostly QS and SQ. When played through a high-separation decoder, such as the Involve Audio Sutround Master v.2, the Soundstage is superb, delivering all that resides in the record grooves. 

I also enjoy SACD's, too, and am quite impressed with the offerings from Dutton Vocalion. I just received a disc from them, Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky", and "Lieutenant Kije- Suite", performed by Eigene Ormandy, with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Although these works are film music, and not strictly classical, they're worth hearing.


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## Vasile P

DaveM said:


> The Bach Symphonic Transcriptions thread reminded me of the quadraphonic era of the 1970s-early 1980s of which I was heavily into. A fair number of classical recordings were recorded with 4-channel sound. The 1974 Stokowski RCA recording with the London Symphony of his Bach Transcriptions including the great Chaconne was produced as a Quadradisc/CD-4 recording (I mistakenly said it was an SQ recording in the above-mentioned thread.)
> 
> There were 3 main 4-channel formats used with vinyl records:
> 
> SQ
> Pioneered by Columbia. It was an encoded matrix format which required an SQ decoder. This was not truly discrete 4-channel sound such as what a 4-channel open-reel tape recorder could produce (such as the Akai unit I owned).
> 
> QS
> Introduced by Sansui. It was also an encoded pseudo-4 channel format and it never was as popular as SQ when it came to released vinyl productions. But what it did better than any other format was to give you a 4-channel experience out of regular stereo records (using the decoder). The way it did this was simply ingenious:
> 
> Envision the sound of an orchestra as coming from a straight line going from the left (say 1st violins) to the right (say the cellos). Now, pull each end of that straight line down into the form of a horseshoe so the 1st violins are now along your left to the left-front and the cellos are from the right-front to your right. That's what the Sansui QS decoder did when fed the sound from a plain stereo record. The sound was quite dramatic with a piano concerto where the piano was right up front and the orchestra was surrounding you! (Worked great with pop music also.)
> 
> Dolby bought the QS patent from Sansui to incorporate it into what is now Dolby Surround Sound.
> 
> CD-4/Quadradisc
> Used by RCA. This was full discrete 4-channel with the 4 channels actually embedded in the grooves of the vinyl record. It certainly gave you a true 4-channel effect, but the vinyl of RCA records was so poor that you had to put up with a lot of ticks & pops. RCA tried to promote these records as working just as well as a stereo record without a decoder, but that was bull; played as stereo records only, quadradiscs produced thin, shallow sound.
> 
> (RCA was always an enigma to me: the music was usually beautifully produced and on remastered CDs the classical music sound is/was great, but their vinyl records were almost always utter crap because the vinyl was down-right cheap quality. It must have been hard for the RCA audio engineers to hear the sound they created coming from the vinyl.)
> 
> BTW: You can create a poor-man's 4-channel, by hooking up 2 rear speakers: connect the + terminal of the left front speaker to the + terminal of the left-rear speaker and the + terminal of the right front speaker to the + terminal of the right-rear speaker. Now connect the - terminals of the rear speakers together. You get ambient sound out of the rear speakers.
> 
> So, did any other listeners here get into 4-channel classical records?


hello,
I am a proud owner of a Sansui QRX 9001, and I am looking to listen some music in 4 channels mode. My question is if, beside the records, I need to have a special Player (4 chanels turntable? or some other 4 channel player?) or is it ok to have a normal turntable and just a 4 channel record. 

thank you!


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