# 'Essential' composers of the late 19th century?



## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

So I'm in the middle of a chronological survey of music from post-Schubert to the 20th century to rectify what was a pretty big hole in my classical awareness, since until now I've mostly been a listener of stuff from Josquin to Schubert (which is a lifetime in itself of course!). It's been great so far. In the early part of the Romantic period I've spent time with Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Berlioz and Alkan, in opera listened to Rossini and Bellini (who is AMAZING) bel canto and some early Verdi, then moved on to Brahms (pretty much everything he published is brilliant, my latest favourite composer), a few of Wagner's orchestral works and excerpts, Bruckner's symphonies 4/7/8, Smetana's Ma Vlast, and am now listening to Dvorak starting with his late string quartets. 

The problem is that I'm becoming slightly lost about what to listen to next, because after 1860 or so it seems as if there's a great increase in the number and variety of composers and works, with a stylistic fracturing along the lines of nationalist schools and responses to Wagner. So it's become quite difficult for me to follow a coherent chronological narrative of which composers to go through compared to the early Romantic period. So I was wondering if TC could help: what would you say are the 'essential' composers of the late 19th century, and their best introductory works? If you like, 'essential' defined as something like 'works/composers one would expect a literate aficionado of classical music to be familiar with'. Thanks for any tips. :tiphat:


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

You're right - music did splinter into nationalistic schools. There were several that you should explore.

*French
*Saint-Saens: the 3rd symphony "Organ", Violin concerto #3, piano concerto #2, cello concerto #1.
Chausson: symphony in B flat
Franck: Symphony in D
Delibes: Sylvia or Coppelia Ballets
Bizet: Carmen - at least the suites

*German/Austrian
*Mahler: for sure listen to symphonies 1 thru 4
Bruckner: all of the symphonies. You already have some of them. Hard to believe he paralleled Brahms.
Richard Strauss: the big symphonic poems like Til Eulenspiegel, Death and Transfiguration, Also Sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan

*Russian
*This is a huge arena. For many listeners, this was their entry into the classics.
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade, Capriccio Espagnol, Russian Easter Overture
Borodin: In the Steppes of Central Asia, Polovtsian Dances, String quartet #2, Symphony 2
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4, 5, 6, Capriccio Italien, Swan Lake, Sleeping Beauty, Nutcracker, violin concerto, piano concerto #1
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel arrangement), Boris Godunov, Night on Bald Mountain (Rimsky verision)
Glazunov: The Seasons, violin concerto

*England*
Elgar: Enigma Variations, Symphonies 1 & 2, Cello and violin concertos, Pomp and Circumstance marches


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

Faure is an absolute must I say. Other French notables not mentioned: D'Indy, Roussel, Massenet, Duparc, Thomas, Dukas, Magnard, Gounod,(Gustave) Charpentier. Debussy and Ravel just about qualify. Reber wrote fine music, which has suddenly come to light.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2018)

Since you are approaching this chronologically, I suggest you explore the vein of melodic sweetness I see passing from Mozart to Schubert to Spohr to Mendelssohn to Rubinstein (Anton) to Tchaikovsky to Rachmaninov.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Under Russian, I’d add Scriabin, whose early works were highly influenced by Chopin and was a very colorful composer who bridged the gap between the 19th and the 20th century.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

*Franck: Symphony in D Minor, Piano Quintet, String Quartet, Violin Sonata *


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## bfBrian (Aug 12, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio Espagnol


Thanks so much for mentioning this. I played this when I was in a youth orchestra 20 years ago, and forgot about it until I saw it in your list. (I wasn't much of a classical music fan back then.)



mbhaub said:


> Saint-Saens: the 3rd symphony "Organ", Violin concerto #3, piano concerto #2, cello concerto #1.


If I were to listen to one piano concerto, I'd choose #5. Also, don't miss the Tarantella, for flute, clarinet & orchestra in A minor, which Rossini supposedly used to troll some acquaintances at a private performance, making them believe he had written it and then revealing it to have been composed by a 22 year old.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

Larkenfield said:


> Under Russian, I'd add Scriabin, whose early works were highly influenced by Chopin and was a very colorful composer who bridged the gap between the 19th and the 20th century.


Scriabin's piano music is very great.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Other choices you should contemplate: Sibelius (symphonies 1 and 2, En Saga, Lemminkainen Suite, Finlandia, The Wood Nymph), Kalinnikov (esp. his 2 lovely symphonies), Grieg (Peer Gynt, Lyric Pieces), Taneyev (some string quartets, John of Damascus), Nielsen (Symphony 1).


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## licorice stick (Nov 24, 2014)

A short list of one great instrumental composition per late Romantic composer that you haven't hit, with recording recommendations on YouTube. No pieces from after World War I.
Dvořák: Carnival Overture (Reiner, CSO)
Wagner: Tannhäuser Overture (Dresden version) (Tennstedt, LPO)
Elgar: Symphony No. 2 (just checked... Colin Davis, BRSO is no longer there... and there are LOTS of AWFUL interpretations) -- so go with Cockaigne Overture instead (Andrew Davis, BBCSO)
Mahler: Symphony No. 7 (Abbado, Lucerne Festival Orchestra) -- I would have said No. 6, but my favorite Jansons BRSO performance is gone
Franck: Violin Sonata (Dumay and Collard)
Bizet: L'Arlésienne Suite No. 1 (Maazel, CO)
R. Strauss: An Alpine Symphony (Blomstedt, SFSO)
Rimsky-Korsakov: Russian Easter Festival Overture (Markevitch, Orchestre Lamoureux)
Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 (Jansons, OPO)
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition (Solti, CSO)
Bruckner: Symphony No. 6 (Jochum, BRSO)
Vaughan-Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis (Andrew Davis, BBCSO)
J. Strauss II: Die Fledermaus Overture (Carlos Kleiber, Bayerisches Staatsorchester)
Schoenberg: Chamber Symphony No. 1 (Mehta, LAPO) -- I couldn't resist, as this piece still has one foot in middle Mahler
Debussy: Préludes (Zimerman)
Verdi: La Forza del Destino Overture (Toscanini, NBCSO)
Smetana: Die Moldau (Fricsay, SRSO) -- I know you've heard this piece, but this is the BEST recording, and there is also a video of an amazing rehearsal
Sibelius: Karelia Suite (Kamu, HRSO)
Puccini: Tosca Act II (Kabaivanska, Domingo, Bartoletti New Philharmonia, 1976) -- unfortunately, no notable purely instrumental pieces from this master orchestrator
Grieg: Piano Concerto (Zimerman, Karajan, BPO)
Rachmaninoff: 10 Preludes, Op. 23 (Lugansky)
Nielsen: Helios Overture (Blomstedt, DRSO)
Satie: 3 Gymnopédies (Thibaudet)
Offenbach: La Belle Hélène Overture (Fiedler, Boston Pops)
Fauré: Requiem (Shaw, ASO) -- can't avoid a choral work here
Borodin: In the Steppes of Central Asia (Jarvi, GSO)
Widor: Organ Symphony No. 6, Mvt. V (Dupré)
Suppé: The Beautiful Galathea Overture (Suitner, Dresden Staatskapelle)

And then you've got Chabrier, Bruch, Wolf, Reger, Busoni, Glazunov, Ysaÿe, Gounod, Albéniz, Mascagni, Leoncavallo, Delius, Massenet, Dukas, Vierne, Berwald, Schreker, Humperdinck, Josef Strauss, Granados, Dohnányi, Bloch, Rubinstein, Suk, Parry, d'Indy, Koechlin, Pfitzner, Balakirev, Cui, Lalo, Messager, Delibes, Chausson, Schmitt, Rheinberger... for starters! And I'm not including Scriabin or Stravinsky since they really belong in spirit to the other side of WWI.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Allow me to add the Scandinavian and Baltic composers here (but in greater depth).

*Denmark*: Niels Wilhelm Gade (try his First and Fifth Symphonies), Nielsen (try his First Symphony and Hymnus amoris)
*Sweden*: Stenhammar (try his First Symphony), Alfven (Symphonies I-III), Atterberg (Symphony no. I, Varmland Rhapsody), Rangstrom
*Finland*: Robert Kajanus, Oskar Merikanto, Erkki Melartin, Selim Palmgren, Sibelius (Kullervo and Symphony no. I, Lemminkainen Suite)
*Norway*: Grieg (any will do)
*Estonia*: Artur Kapp (try his First Symphony), Lemba (Symphony in C)
*Latvia*: Jāzeps Vītols (Sprīdītis & Symphony in E)
*Lithuania*: Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Thanks guys! I've a fair bit of listening to do.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The obvious work by Ciurlionis to listen to would be The Sea, a symphonic poem. 
A composer whose general artistic life and production (painting) it is worth also checking out a bit.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Check out the Czech *Antonin Dvorak* - his *cello concerto and his New World Symphony (his Ninth)*.
This is my favorite recording of both:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_composers_by_era
Maybe these timelines can help. The major composers have slightly larger font. I actually like to get lost...


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## licorice stick (Nov 24, 2014)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_composers_by_era
> Maybe these timelines can help. The major composers have slightly larger font. I actually like to get lost...


That otherwise excellent timeline is missing Dohnanyi if anyone wants to change it. I am loathe to tangle with the Wikipedia editorial commissars over anything anymore.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

licorice stick said:


> That otherwise excellent timeline is missing Dohnanyi if anyone wants to change it. I am loathe to tangle with the Wikipedia editorial commissars over anything anymore.


I'll get to it... aaand I broke the table (by accident, of course).


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## licorice stick (Nov 24, 2014)

Portamento said:


> I'll get to it... aaand I broke the table (by accident, of course).


With composers such as Luigini(?) and Holmès(?) in the timeline, I figured that Dohnanyi with his contemporary stature and primary importance in the early 20th century Hungarian music scene should be as well.


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## licorice stick (Nov 24, 2014)

licorice stick said:


> A short list of one great instrumental composition per late Romantic composer that you haven't hit, with recording recommendations on YouTube. No pieces from after World War I.


Two amendments:
The Jansons BRSO concert performance of which I am fond has resurfaced on YouTube. And I forgot Saint-Saëns: Symphony No. 3 (Chung, Orchestre de l'Opera Bastille).


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

Manolis Kalomiris and Manuel Ponce are worth a listen...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Kalomiris and Ponce chronologically belong to the 20th century, I think.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

licorice stick said:


> With composers such as Luigini(?) and Holmès(?) in the timeline, I figured that Dohnanyi with his contemporary stature and primary importance in the early 20th century Hungarian music scene should be as well.


They are real composers, of not much stature. Dohnanyi lived too long, into an era in which his music was considered hopelessly old-fashioned, but it has proportion and interest, he shouldn't be ignored.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> Kalomiris and Ponce chronologically belong to the 20th century, I think.


They lived for quite a while in the 19th, same with quite a few of the others listed, most of their best work was in the 20th (perhaps in the case of K&P, pretty well _all_ of it...still I'd like to mention them because they are very nearly first rate and very nearly forgotten)


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