# Does anyone actually like the sound of a clavichord?



## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm a hardcore HIPster and adore the sound of harpsichords, fortepianos, etc. but when it comes to the clavichord, after many many attempts to try to appreciate it, I've pretty much decided it's just an ugly sounding instrument.

I hear all the clavichord connoisseurs talk about the plaintive delicacy and expressiveness of the instrument but all I ever hear is a strangled, muffled sounding harpsichord with noisy preparations stuck onto the strings. There's nothing pleasing about it at all to me and it bugs me that there are so many recordings of great keyboard works by C.P.E. Bach, W.F. Bach, et. al., that are available only all or in part performed on clavichord. I've bought several of these over the years by highly regarded early keyboard specialists and on labels I know are superior in terms of sound engineering only to utimately give up trying to enjoy the music.

Let's hear from all you clavichord lovers: what am I missing?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I 'like' that this OP is making me want to check it out - I honestly don't know enough about the instrument.

Clavichorder*, this thread has need of you! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS Ooh-er - I see what you mean! 





This is better - but it does have a muffled, laboured sound.





^^^ PPS After ten minutes, I thought, 'This would sound better on harpsichord' and gave up. The creaking-shuffling sound was the aural equivalent of chewing a toffee with its wrapper still on.

But peace & long life to all those who love it, and it's nice still to have the link with history.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* I have just VM-ed him. We shall soon see a man on a white stallion come charging over the hill!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

No. Nobody likes the sound of the clavichord. That's why there are "clavichord connoisseurs" and clavichord performers and clavichord recordings.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Sssshhh nobody tell a certain TCer whose name rhymes with" Glavichorder" about this thread.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> No. Nobody likes the sound of the clavichord. That's why there are "clavichord connoisseurs" and clavichord performers and clavichord recordings.


Good point. I should have asked "How does anyone actually like the sound...?"


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

There is a certain member here in particular to whom I would like to thank for helping me to discover the clavichord, an instrument with an exciting and beautiful tone.


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## MosmanViolinist (Nov 10, 2015)

I have no problem with it


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Not all clavichords are the same. I love the sound of the clavichord that Siegbert Rampe uses for Froberger, I hate the sound of the one that René Clemencic uses for Cabezón. Rampe is the best clavichord player I have heard.

What good clavichords do better than piano and harpsichord is variety of timbre. It's very useful in contrapuntal music because the timbres help to clarify the voices, it's almost as if each voice has its own colour, you can hear this in Michael Tsalka's recording of the Goldberg Variations.

People interested in clavichord may also enjoy the sound of lautenwerke, I've started to explore John Paul's recordings of French suites.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm new to it. I played a snippet of a link from Ingelou and I like it. In fact I prefer it to the sound of the harpsichord.
I'm looking to get either Goldberg and/or WTC, so may well go with Mandryka's recommendation.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> No. Nobody likes the sound of the clavichord. That's why there are "clavichord connoisseurs" and clavichord performers and clavichord recordings.


Hear hear :cheers:


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I sampled Michael Tsalka's Goldberg Variations and found it to be quite awful. The action of the keyboard seems to hamper the performer leading to rhythmic glitches and herkey-jerkyness.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Andolink said:


> herkey-jerkyness.


Top marks for introducing me to a new expression but no marks for dismissing the instrument - I rather like the more intimate sound of the instrument. I can imagine that it is best suited to a small, but comfortable room with thick curtains and thick wall-hangings where there is no space for the greater reverberation possible with a harpsichord or fortepiano. I would imagine that those instruments would be better in a larger, more resonant room with a larger audience


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I sampled some Bach keyboard works played on a lautenwerk by Robert Hill over on youtube and WOW! what a gorgeous sounding instrument that is. I might even prefer that to my beloved harpsichord!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Andolink said:


> I sampled Michael Tsalka's Goldberg Variations and found it to be quite awful. The action of the keyboard seems to hamper the performer leading to rhythmic glitches and herkey-jerkyness.


Another one to try on clavichord is Jaroslav Tuma's.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Does anyone actually like the sound of a clavichord?Yes, at least this 'anyone' does. Both from a distance and from close in, though the latter liking required some attitude adjustment (I studied some pictures and diagrams, and now try to visualize the mechanics that make those sounds in the back of my mind.) The result is a weird experience, but effective. I wonder if that is what _clavi_ does.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

A good clavichord tends to inspire it's performers to play with better articulation and sensitivity. I know this having played one numerous times. The light touch of the keys, the fact that when a note is struck you still have some control over it's sound, and the quiet nature of the instrument are all factors in this. Having practiced on one for hours, I also know that they are very nifty instruments for that purpose as in person you never tire of it's quieter dynamic range and lighter touch of the keys.

Five important things in finding clavichord music that is the most enjoyable: the performer/how it was performed, the piece/composer, the instrument, and how it was mic'd, and your personal preferences as a listener. The best way to go about this is to start by presenting some further examples that I enjoy the most, and see how you react. I know the recording Mandryka mentions with Rene Clemencic and De Cabezon and tend to agree with him. Mandryka and I sometimes do not agree on early music performance aesthetics despite being drawn to similar music.

One of my favorite clavichords, partly because I've had the privilege of playing it in person, is this model by Potvleighe, a dutch maker. There are two players who are of a high level of skill but with very different approaches to making music, that record videos on this model of instrument and submit it directly to youtube for a hobby. Wim Winters almost exclusively records on his Potvleighe and Ryan Layne Whitney(teafruitbat) has a playlist of maybe 6 or 7 videos amongst many other recordings on different instruments.

Here is Ryan playing a CPE sonata in D minor:





Here is Wim playing Mozart Sonata k333 in F major:





To contrast between two performers with different recording set ups and different repertoire, but on the same instrument(model) might be useful.

Also, see if you don't like this recording by Paul Simmonds, one of my favorite performers. He plays a sonata by Ernst Wilhelm Wolf:






These are all big clavichords. Small ones can sound great too! And that's all there were before the 18th century. Go to 2:46 in this instructional video on historic keyboard instruments for a quick sound sample of a nice instrument:





Four should be enough to start with. If none of these do anything for you, then we'll talk about perceptions as a listener.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

So _that's_ why he is called "Clavichorder!"


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I realized that for Wim Winters, I just found a recording I'd rather showcase than the Mozart. A Johann Christian Bach sonata which I think a very worthy piece and that his style of playing is better suited for:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> A good clavichord tends to inspire it's performers to play with better articulation and sensitivity. I know this having played one numerous times. The light touch of the keys, the fact that when a note is struck you still have some control over it's sound, and the quiet nature of the instrument are all factors in this. Having practiced on one for hours, I also know that they are very nifty instruments for that purpose as in person you never tire of it's quieter dynamic range and lighter touch of the keys.
> 
> Five important things in finding clavichord music that is the most enjoyable: the performer/how it was performed, the piece/composer, the instrument, and how it was mic'd, and your personal preferences as a listener. The best way to go about this is to start by presenting some further examples that I enjoy the most, and see how you react. I know the recording Mandryka mentions with Rene Clemencic and De Cabezon and tend to agree with him. Mandryka and I sometimes do not agree on early music performance aesthetics despite being drawn to similar music.
> 
> ...


I listened to Wim Winters' Mozart, I'm always curious about how he sounds on different instruments -- Schooderwoerd plays some Mozart sonatas on clavichord and so does Rampe. Re Clemencic's Cabezon, I have another clavichord recording of spanish music by Ilton Wjuniski. The best Cabezon performances I've heard were on harp.

The tradition in the 17th century was for organists to practise at home with a pair of stacked clavichords. I'd love to hear Oregelbuchlein played like like that. Troeger's Bach series seems to have come to a premature end, sadly before The French Suites, I thought it was pretty good.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

Mozart loved the instrument for its ease of transport.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

How about the sound of a tangent piano? Perhaps my favorite old keyboard instrument. Lovely sound with more power than clavichord.

Here is the first movement of a concerto of CPE Bach played on such an instrument:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

^^^^ Listening now - this *is* a lovely sound!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I knew someone who had a clavichord rather than a puano as she lves in a flat and it was quiet.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I like the sound of the clavichord. It is more intimate than the harpsichord.


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## echmain (Jan 18, 2013)

Not a clavicord but how about a classic song played on a Clavinet?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Fascinating set of links Clavichorder. :tiphat: I've listened to some and it sounds very nice indeed. Nice thread.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Thanks Clavichorder,

Paul Simmonds doing the Wolf sonatas has come closer than anything I've heard so far in enabling me to understand the attractiveness of clavichord sound. Seems very well recorded too.

And, I like the fluidity of Wim Winters' technique very much. He avoids mannerism and conveys the sense of the music well.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Thank you for some informative posts here.

Overall, I tend to not find the HIP sound world that attractive either, but searching for more CPE Bach recordings recently, I stumbled across these mp3 samples of a Brilliant Classics 5 CD set of sonatas, played by Belder, and was quite astonished:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Brilliant+Classics/94486#listen


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

joen, thanks for the recommendation. I often like Belder's work, that prolific guy.


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## TradeMark (Mar 12, 2015)

from listening to some of the pieces posted in the thread, I actually think I like the sound of the clavichord more than the harpsichord. It's softer and more subtle.


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## PJaye (May 22, 2015)

I've really enjoyed and been fascinated by the sound of the clavichord. I remember the first time I heard one -which I think was in the Amadeus film- I thought it had a sound that pre-supposed something of an electric keyboard, without using electricity. A neat concept for me, and unique sound for sure. Like another post noted, I also find each individual note has a clear distinctness even when chords are played that enables one to here a lot of detail in the piece. I guess that does depend on the instrument and make though. I am a clavichord fan.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> It is more intimate than the harpsichord.


Not necessarily, not all harpsichords are the same.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> Not necessarily, not all harpsichords are the same.


Indeed. Lautenwerk's have a lute like tone.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> Indeed. Lautenwerk's have a lute like tone.


And I was thinking also of the harpsichord Egarr uses for the Goldbergs, with quill plectra.

One of the most intimate sounding recitals I have ever heard was hearing Asperen play Art of Fugue on a Ruckers of all things!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

The clavichord was CPE Bach's favorite keyboard instrument. That says a lot.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Some music that gives a good sense of the soul of the clavichord. Another Wolf Sonata mvt., this one is just such a perfect clavichord piece:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> The clavichord was CPE Bach's favorite keyboard instrument. That says a lot.


Well, it tells us what his favorite instrument was; beyond that, I don't think it says anything.

I think very well of the clavichord, but I must admit that its lack of powerful sound is a negative for me. Still, a great performer of the clavichord gives a great performance.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Well, it tells us what his favorite instrument was; beyond that, I don't think it says anything.


It would be interesting if someone who's played CPEB on one would comment on this - whether there's something about the music which makes it work specially well on clav. I have enjoyed CPEB on harpsichord and on clavichord, but I've never really listened particularly closely or analytically to the performances.

Clavichorder's idea that the Wolf sonata (which I haven't had the chance to hear yet) gets somehow to the "soul" of the clavichord is relevant here, possibly.

By the way, I've been listening to Wjuniski's CD of Spanish music again, with more pleasure than before. I think it's something worth catching for people who enjoy that sort of thing.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Hmm, I never listened to enough clavichord to make an honest assessment, but in my view, I'll take just about any keyboard instrument over the bland, neutral sound of most pianos.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> How about the sound of a tangent piano? Perhaps my favorite old keyboard instrument. Lovely sound with more power than clavichord.
> Here is the first movement of a concerto of CPE Bach played on such an instrument:


Nice. Thanks for the heads-up, EB.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I think it's a fantastic instrument. Obviously the sounds varies with the model, as with the harpsichord, but for me that is part of the appeal. Some of the samples proffered, particularly the Wolf sonata movement posted by Clavi, are quite thrilling.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Well, it tells us what his favorite instrument was; beyond that, I don't think it says anything.
> 
> I think very well of the clavichord, but I must admit that its lack of powerful sound is a negative for me. Still, a great performer of the clavichord gives a great performance.


It says a lot to anyone interested in history, just like the fortepiano was Mozart's favorite keyboard instrument.

In general, CPE was at the forefront on influence and keyboard playing techniques. _Versuch über die wahre Art das Clavier zu spielen_ (An Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments), was recognized as a definitive work on keyboard technique. The clavichord offered more pianissimo expression than the harpsichord.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> And I was thinking also of the harpsichord Egarr uses for the Goldbergs, with quill plectra.


Do you think well of Egarr's Goldbergs? My feelings are mixed.


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> Hmm, I never listened to enough clavichord to make an honest assessment, but in my view, I'll take just about any keyboard instrument over the bland, neutral sound of most pianos.


Ok, I'll probably get flamed for this by the *establishment* in music society:

Dear Gaspard,

If you find most pianos bland and neutral sounding then you have not heard a properly tuned and adjusted Bosendorfer - Now for full disclosure: I only have a Yamaha electric piano at home but I do have access to a beautiful Bosendorfer Imperial Concert Grand...


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

I like the WTC performed on clavichord; the Fritz Neumeyer early Haydn sonatas on clavichord sound quite appropriate too. There's a small window of time where it feels right, but when it does, it definitely does.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> Do you think well of Egarr's Goldbergs? My feelings are mixed.


What I like about it most is the way he seems to find a distinct character for each variation.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> What I like about it most is the way he seems to find a distinct character for each variation.


That's an interesting take on the Egarr performance and quite different from mine. From my perspective, Egarr was on the hunt for a highly cantabile/singing interpretation that permeated most, if not, all of the variations; sort of a unifying feature that dampened the individuality of each variation.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> sort of a unifying feature that dampened the individuality of each variation.


Except it doesn't, because there's lots of individuality to each variation. So either there's enough variety of articulation, or a tendency to prefer relatively long phrases and to avoid a detached touch isn't expressively limiting, or there are other things going on to give the music its character (voicing, agogics, rubato, tempo etc.) Probably all three - without listening again I couldn't say.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I think this is a pretty special recording, by Philippe Chanel. Interesting and unusual early music; a colourful instrument, an expressive performance style. It contains one of the best performances of Est-ce Mars? (Sweelinck) I know. Recommended.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

To re-mention Wim Winters, he's constantly putting up new videos and making recordings at a staggering quality. He's also a wealth of information. Every question, compliment, or request has been answered. Very nice guy that really has a deep love for the instrument. You should hear him play Beethoven's Pathetique on it.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> To re-mention Wim Winters, he's constantly putting up new videos and making recordings at a staggering quality. He's also a wealth of information. Every question, compliment, or request has been answered. Very nice guy that really has a deep love for the instrument. You should hear him play Beethoven's Pathetique on it.


Cheers to Wim! And he put up a new one for us for New Years. No way to start the year like Bach on the clavichord!


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm so glad he's an audiophile as well as an amazing musician. It's the best of both worlds.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

We should note that the clavichord was the personal keyboard instrument of choice for the Bach household, not the large harpsichords. Haydn often composed at the clavichord before moving to the fortepiano.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> We should note that the clavichord was the personal keyboard instrument of choice for the Bach household, not the large harpsichords.


Because he didn't want to disturb the neighbours.

Just a quick question for clavichord players. How long will a baroque clavichord stay in tune? The longest piece I recall hearing is about 10 minutes, I think. But could you play a large set of variations like, I dunno, Buxtehude's Capricciosa, without tuning it in the middle?


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

I used to watch a Laura Ingalls Wilder TV series when I was in third grade, and whenever any scene involved school, they played clavichord music.

As a result, I now relate the clavichord to schools and the old American west. Needless to say, I do not very much enjoy the sound of the clavichord.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

mstar said:


> I used to watch a Laura Ingalls Wilder TV series when I was in third grade, and whenever any scene involved school, they played clavichord music.
> 
> As a result, I now relate the clavichord to schools and the old American west. Needless to say, I do not very much enjoy the sound of the clavichord.


That's very different and interesting. Have you found any clavichord sounds you like in this thread?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

clavichorder said:


> Have you found any clavichord sounds you like in this thread?


I read that as "Have you found any clavichord that sounds like you in this thread?"


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Dim7 said:


> I read that as "Have you found any clavichord that sounds like you in this thread?"


Why not? I like that.


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