# Pieces you hate by composers you love



## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

The title says it all. Start bitchin!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Hate is a far too strong word. But examples where I think a favourite of mine was less inspired:

Bach - Kaffeecantate
Mahler -Symphony 8
Brahms - Piano sonatas


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

I will stick to Bartok since he is my all-time favorite and I know all his works:

1. The Wooden Prince
2. Violin Concerto No. 2
3. Most of the string quartets (except No. 4)
4. Piano Concerto No. 3 (except parts of Movement II)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Mephistopheles said:


> The title says it all. Start bitchin!


Inspired by your moniker: Liszt's Mephisto Waltz No. 1


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

There's already a thread about this:

http://www.talkclassical.com/20319-grey-thread.html


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

etkearne said:


> I will stick to Bartok since he is my all-time favorite and I know all his works:
> 
> 1. The Wooden Prince
> 2. Violin Concerto No. 2
> ...


You are clearly a false acolyte. It is marginally OK to not love The Wooden Prince, but the others you list... shame, shame, shame. As penance, You must watch Parsifal.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

aleazk said:


> There's already a thread about this:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/20319-grey-thread.html


Ah, sorry for the duplication, but I can't be expected to read _every_ thread just in case something with an indeterminate title contains an idea I had too.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Mephistopheles said:


> Ah, sorry for the duplication, but I can't be expected to read _every_ thread just in case something with an indeterminate title contains an idea I had too.


Yeah; and I didn't look into that thread... because it's spelled wrong!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Dirty Americans taking pride in spelling grey wrong. How disgusting of them!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

_Thing Fish_ by Frank Zappa. Boring crap.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Everything by ComposerofAvantGarde


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> Everything by ComposerofAvantGarde


What a bitter compliment!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Mendelssohn's Wedding March. I have never liked it and was stunned and saddened to learn he wrote it.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> _Thing Fish_ by Frank Zappa. Boring crap.


Lady, I like the way you think.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Medtner's 3rd violin sonata, "Epic." It gets too long winded and bland for me to have any mercy.


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet: _Wellington's Victory_ by Beethoven. Fifteen minutes of "For he's a jolly good fellow" interspersed with "La Marseillaise". Some banging at the end. Apparently this was Beethoven's most popular orchestral work during his lifetime, although I expect it got a lot of "officially sponsored" performances during the Napoleonic Wars.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I can't take Shostakovich's 7th symphony very well. The first movement is great, but the others are too Mahlerian for me. The Russian color is gone.


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Inspired by your moniker: Liszt's Mephisto Waltz No. 1


I've always thought this to be one of Liszt's underrated and truly misunderstood works (and there are many of them). Sure it gets played often, but people always seem to see it as a notey, virtuoso showpiece with little real substance...IMO, there is not a note in the piece that doesn't contribute to its musical and programmatic argument.

As far as the thread goes, like Art Rock hate is too strong a word for me. There are no works by Liszt that I hate...but here are some that, at this point, I either don't appreciate as much as some seem to or I just feel are lesser (yet are compositions he actually spent some time on/had high hopes for):

Die Glocken des Strassburger Münsters.
Psalm 18.
Chöre zu Herders Entfesseltem Prometheus.
Festklänge.
Hunnenschlacht.
Scherzo and March.
Alleluia.
Hungarian Rhapsody No. 9.
Grand galop chromatique.
Fantaisie sur des motifs favoris de l'opéra La Sonnambula.
Rigoletto Paraphrase de Concert.
Fantasie und Fuge über das Thema BACH (although it's growing on me, and I am starting to like the organ version).

There are more, but I think these are the main ones. The thing with Liszt, though, is that I usually end up at least liking the pieces that I initially would have had on a list like this.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I don't like Bartók's solo piano work at all.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> I don't like Bartók's solo piano work at all.


Huh... that is probably my favorite for him, actually. At all, at all? What is your favorite Bartok?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Lady, I like the way you think.


And it could have been good >_< He had Ike Willis back in a lead roll, and his singing on Joe's Garage is spectacular. When I first listened to it, I was kinda expecting Joe's Garage II.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

I love Mozart and I have not found a single piece that can be hated.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Huh... that is probably my favorite for him, actually. At all, at all? What is your favorite Bartok?


I like his orchestra and chamber ensemble music best. Maybe I haven't the right interpretations of his piano works, who would you recommend?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> And it could have been good >_< He had Ike Willis back in a lead roll, and his singing on Joe's Garage is spectacular. When I first listened to it, I was kinda expecting Joe's Garage II.


Thing Fish was conceived as a musical, so I wasn't expecting it to be much like Joe's Garage, my problem with it stems more from the potential of the basic concept. The idea of government scientists creating a disease in order to wipe out certain undesirable minorities (which was actually his theory about the origin of AIDS) from the general population but having it backfire and actually mutate its targets in to a new minority is brilliant, I think, but it was poorly executed and came out as a total mess.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Thing Fish was conceived as a musical, so I wasn't expecting it to be much like Joe's Garage, my problem with it stems more from the potential of the basic concept. The idea of government scientists creating a disease in order to wipe out certain undesirable minorities (which was actually his theory about the origin of AIDS) from the general population but having it backfire and actually mutate its targets in to a new minority is brilliant, I think, but it was poorly executed and came out as a total mess.


Yeah. Many of the tunes are just lousy re-workings of older pieces, too. It kinda makes me sad that alot of his output in the 80s (I think) suffers. I think he was so heavily invested in fighting the PMRC that he didn't put as much work into his writing, in general. Not that he didn't write good stuff during that period, but alot of it is just corny, and it lacks the profound beauty of things from the 60s through the late 70s. It feels like he mostly concentrated on the text, and sorta phoned the music in. As far as the instrumental music from that period goes, a fair amount of that was still pretty good. That may have also been part of it, he was spending so much effort working with the synclavier that he didn't put as much effort into the songs and live band music. I dunno.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Yeah. Many of the tunes are just lousy re-workings of older pieces, too. It kinda makes me sad that alot of his output in the 80s (I think) suffers. I think he was so heavily invested in fighting the PMRC that he didn't put as much work into his writing, in general. Not that he didn't write good stuff during that period, but alot of it is just corny, and it lacks the profound beauty of things from the 60s through the late 70s. It feels like he mostly concentrated on the text, and sorta phoned the music in. As far as the instrumental music from that period goes, a fair amount of that was still pretty good. That may have also been part of it, he was spending so much effort working with the synclavier that he didn't put as much effort into the songs and live band music. I dunno.


The 1984 band was supposed to be pure cheese and self parody, a lot of the reworking and also the overall cheesy sound of the music is wholly intentional. Like the 1988 band, it was created for a very specific purpose, and it follows a pretty straight path in that sense. I think there are some great albums from the era, specifically Jazz From Hell, You Are What You Is, Them or Us, YCDTOSA and the various guitar based records. At the time, Frank was working with Boulez and Nagano and various orchestras and ensembles and doing a lot of remasters for CD, as well as working with the Synclavier. He also wrote two books in the 80s. I'm amazed he released any albums at all, but I do agree that there does seem to be a dip in quality of his releases during the 80s.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

'Hate' is not the word for it really, but there are some pieces I simply don't like such as:
Mahler - 5th Symphony; apart from the first movement and the adagietto, I just can't get into it.
Shostakovich - Symphony No.3 'May Day' cos frankly it's rubbish; Symphony No.14 cos it isn't a symphony.
Prokofiev - Symphony No.4; either version, I just can't get into it at all.
Post 'Abacab' Genesis, by which time Phil Collins' ego had completely overtaken the band.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

waldvogel said:


> I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet: _Wellington's Victory_ by Beethoven. Fifteen minutes of "For he's a jolly good fellow" interspersed with "La Marseillaise". Some banging at the end. Apparently this was Beethoven's most popular orchestral work during his lifetime, although I expect it got a lot of "officially sponsored" performances during the Napoleonic Wars.


A rather disappointig choice and your description is incorrect.
I think it is a very good,and better,substitute for "1812" when you are in the mood for such things, because that is completely empty of all talent until the racket at the end arrives.
A person by the name of Maelzel had invented a "Panharmonicon" which was a giant mechanical orchestral machine. as Beethoven owed him a favour he agreed to write a piece for the monster, but he also scored it for orchestra and it is that we hear now.
If you can see it in the open with period-uniform infantry and cavalry,cannon,etc.it is quite a thing!
The music at the beginning is "Rule Britannia" and "Malbrouck s'en va t'en Guerre" which has been used for "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" since.
The famous Dorati/LSO/Mercury version is still the best with real ancient weapons from West Point in stunning hi-fi.


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## perduto (Aug 28, 2012)

Morton Feldman: Rothko Chapel.
Disappointment rather than hate, perhaps. Morty for the Millions?


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

I've listened to almost everything by Wieniawski and I haven't found anything that I don't like.

I also really, _really_ like Mendelssohn but again, I don't _hate_ anything by him.


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

Hate is a strong word, but I really don't like Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No.2.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Medtner's 3rd violin sonata, "Epic." It gets too long winded and bland for me to have any mercy.


Awww.... That's one of my favorite violin sonatas.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I do not care for Schumann's Opera or his choral works with soloists.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

perduto said:


> Morton Feldman: Rothko Chapel.
> Disappointment rather than hate, perhaps. Morty for the Millions?


Whaaaa? So you're disappointed that a composer wrote something that wound up popular? Rothko Chapel is rightly popular as a work of genius, an imaginative, gorgeous, emotional work filled with love and the sorrow of loss.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Overture 1812


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## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

Since I strive to comprehend and eventually appreciate the various composers' opus, the verbs "hate/love" don't fit in the equation. 
(I cannot imagine how I can "hate" any work by Beethoven, for instance).

Principe


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Lisztian said:


> I've always thought this to be one of Liszt's underrated and truly misunderstood works (and there are many of them). Sure it gets played often, but people always seem to see it as a notey, virtuoso showpiece with little real substance...IMO, there is not a note in the piece that doesn't contribute to its musical and programmatic argument.
> 
> As far as the thread goes, like Art Rock hate is too strong a word for me. There are no works by Liszt that I hate...but here are some that, at this point, I either don't appreciate as much as some seem to or I just feel are lesser (yet are compositions he actually spent some time on/had high hopes for):
> 
> ...


You don't need to have guilt feelings because the question asked was about pieces you hate,and you don't hate these so it doen't count.
The Mephisto Waltz was my intro to Liszt and it's a fantastic item. I'm a bit dismayed at your comment re the Rigoletto paraphrase.
But in any case I'm pretty fed up with the use of the word "hate" on this forum.


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> You are clearly a false acolyte. It is marginally OK to not love The Wooden Prince, but the others you list... shame, shame, shame. As penance, You must watch Parsifal.


I didn't want to LIE....but I will do my penance anyways haha. Sometimes you just have to "come clean".


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm not a hater in general, and I don't universally love all of Mahler, but his Symphony No. 7 in particular sours my stomach.

george


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

GGluek said:


> I'm not a hater in general, and I don't universally love all of Mahler, but his Symphony No. 7 in particular sours my stomach.
> 
> george


This post sours my stomach.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> I'm not a hater in general, and I don't universally love all of Mahler, but his Symphony No. 7 in particular sours my stomach.


Isn't music a wonderful thing? I read quite often that people find the 7th one of Mahler's least 'likeable' symphonies, yet I think it's wonderful and don't find it a difficult listen at all. Yet Mahlers' 5th is a favourite and I just can't get on with it.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Bolero, Finlandia, Mahler's symphony #4.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Xaltotun said:


> Mahler's symphony #4.


................


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> ................


My reaction to you posting Mahler's 8th was similar!


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I have to say I cant stomach Lieder very much, so that rules out about half of Schubert's output!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Xaltotun said:


> Bolero, Finlandia, Mahler's symphony #4.


Why do you dislike Finlandia?


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

jani said:


> Why do you dislike Finlandia?


That's a good question; I have several answers.

1) I'm a Finn so it's a delicious opportunity to dislike something that I'm supposed to like. Call it being a "vastarannan kiiski" or just a general donkey-hole.
2) Many Finns only know Finlandia and maybe the first movement of Karelia suite. That's just wrong, because Sibelius wrote much better works than those. I'm a bit pissed by that, so it affects my emotions towards those pieces themselves.
3) I feel it doesn't have much variation and doesn't move anywhere... the same reason I don't like Bolero.
4) Actually, as a national anthem or just a patriotic sing-along song, Finlandia would be allright; the problem comes when it's being compared to other things Sibelius wrote... other things that are in a much higher league, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Finlandia.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Xaltotun said:


> That's a good question; I have several answers.
> 
> 1) I'm a Finn so it's a delicious opportunity to dislike something that I'm supposed to like. Call it being a "vastarannan kiiski" or just a general donkey-hole.
> 2) Many Finns only know Finlandia and maybe the first movement of Karelia suite. That's just wrong, because Sibelius wrote much better works than those. I'm a bit pissed by that, so it affects my emotions towards those pieces themselves.
> ...


Yea its not as god as his other works but its not bad.


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## perduto (Aug 28, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Whaaaa? So you're disappointed that a composer wrote something that wound up popular? Rothko Chapel is rightly popular as a work of genius, an imaginative, gorgeous, emotional work filled with love and the sorrow of loss.


Nothing wrong with popularity (glad you like it!), but personally I'm disappointed in RC because I feel that its popularity was well planned at the cost of some of the qualities that make Feldman one of my favorites. With _For Philip Guston _ he convinced me that he could write an imaginative, gorgeous, emotional work filled with love and the sorrow of loss without such consessions. Hope it will become very popular one day...


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

I don't "hate" any music
There are some pieces that I don't get, or don't like 
BUT
I don't hate
It's a very negative state of mind


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## tommaso (Sep 11, 2012)

Bach - Chromatische Fantasie und Fuge

no melody, too much theory, no "soul" (different to the Art of the fugue)


Bach - Musikalisches Opfer

same complaints


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

GGluek said:


> I'm not a hater in general, and I don't universally love all of Mahler, but his Symphony No. 7 in particular sours my stomach.
> 
> george


Huh, that's not a good sign, considering my university is playing that next semester....


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Xaltotun said:


> That's a good question; I have several answers.
> 
> 1) I'm a Finn so it's a delicious opportunity to dislike something that I'm supposed to like. Call it being a "vastarannan kiiski" or just a general donkey-hole.
> 2) Many Finns only know Finlandia and maybe the first movement of Karelia suite. That's just wrong, because Sibelius wrote much better works than those. I'm a bit pissed by that, so it affects my emotions towards those pieces themselves.
> ...


I completely agree with you Xaltotun. I know Finlandia, but it's kinda obligatory for me to like it as a Finn. I've heard it enough times in my life now, and I usually avoid listening to it, preferring other Sibelius. Can't say I hate it though, just strongly dis-preferring it.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I completely agree with you Xaltotun. I know Finlandia, but it's kinda obligatory for me to like it as a Finn. I've heard it enough times in my life now, and I usually avoid listening to it, preferring other Sibelius. Can't say I hate it though, just strongly dis-preferring it.


I suppose some English people get fed up with the famous Pomp and Circumstance march. But I must say I've always liked Finlandia, it sounds just like we think Finland must be.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

*Das Judentum in der Musik*, obviously.

PS. And I like Finlandia.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> I like his orchestra and chamber ensemble music best. Maybe I haven't the right interpretations of his piano works, who would you recommend?


Zoltan Kocsis

About 30 dollars for 8 CDs.










I don't have any "hated" works to list. There are plenty of pieces that my brain can't seem to hear or absorb at any given time, but I always come back for another go.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Not hate, but dislike ...

Schumann: Piano Trios ...
Dvorak: String Quartet No. 2,3,4,6. I can't give them more chance to impress me.
Beethoven: Wind Octet and Sextet ... maybe the instruments just don't suit each other.
Mozart: majority of his symphonies (specially early ones)
Schubert: Symphony No.7


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> *Das Judentum in der Musik*, obviously.
> 
> PS. And I like Finlandia.


You are walking on the edge of the cliff.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

moody said:


> You are walking on the edge of the cliff.


Why is that? It would be so if I said I l*oved* the abovementioned piece. OK, I know it is not exactly a musical piece, but it is still a work of my favorite composer. And I can't think of any others I would *hate *. To me they are all fine, even the _Centennial March _


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Why is that? It would be so if I said I l*oved* the abovementioned piece. OK, I know it is not exactly a musical piece, but it is still a work of my favorite composer. And I can't think of any others I would *hate *. To me they are all fine, even the _Centennial March _


So you were saying you hated the essay in question?Well then that's OK I got confused but hardly think it needs to be mentioned at all.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Missa Solemnis is a work by Beethoven I dislike quite a bit.
I don't much like Haydn's Creation either.


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

I don't think I actually have any real hate for any classical music, but I can do nicely without Bach's many longwinded religious arias in minor. But then I guess I'm not really in the target audience for guilt-ridden religious music. It's not that it's bad music or that it's not expressive etc, it's just not something I'm very interested in and it gets pretty tedious.


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