# Are conductors important? Nigel says...



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Nigel's at it again! He's performing at the Proms Last Night, which for the first time has a woman conductor, Marin Alsop. Say Nigel:

"I really don't see what's so important about gender. I think conductors are completely over-rated anyway, because if you love music, why not play it? Why wave around and get off on some ego ****? I don't think the audience give a **** about the conductor. Not unless they've been pumped full of propaganda from classical music writing or something. I mean, no one normal understands what the conductor does. No one knows what they do! They just wave their arms out of time."

Of course, there's more...and those asterisks are filled in.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/aug/30/nigel-kennedy-interview-conductors-overrated


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nigel Kennedy's punk rebel chip on the shoulder schtick is not only parsecs away from its past fresh date, but it looks greviously ill and beyond silly on a man fifty six years of age. 

He should, really, just play his fiddle and keep his mouth shut


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Hey, so long as he plays purty, he can say what he wants. Go for it Nigel!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Hey, so long as he plays purty, he can say what he wants. Go for it Nigel!


Yeah, but when was the last time he was paid to talk or write about anything?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Yeah, but when was the last time he was paid to talk or write about anything?


Well, I suppose we should be happy that he does it for free. :lol: Certainly gave me a chuckle.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2013)

Well, if the _Four Seasons_ Prom was anything to go by, the Last Night won't be much to write home about. It had an undeniable energy, but the addition of percussion and the improvisation didn't do it for me.

I presume Marin Alsop will just laugh and say, "Ah, that's typical Nigel for you," and just get on with waving her arms about out of time!


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Nigel Kennedy's punk rebel chip on the shoulder schtick is not only parsecs away from its past fresh date, but it looks greviously ill and beyond silly on a man fifty six years of age.
> 
> He should, really, just play his fiddle and keep his mouth shut


Bingo!

Now I have to think up something else to make 25 characters. Pfft!


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

... And a professional football players just swings his foot at the ball as it goes by, and misses the goal more often than not . . .


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

I wonder what Kennedy would do if the conductor did not come up... Perhaps they could manage to play Four Seasons, but anything more complex would be a disaster.

Best regards, Dr


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

Conductors are important, sex is important.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aries said:


> Conductors are important, sex is important.


But really good fiddle players are -- really -- a dime a dozen.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

He's ugly and sad and middle-aged and not that good.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

...of course conductors are important... (and no, the GAC, Global Association of Conductors, is not putting a gun into my head for me to say this...)

Help!, they have me captive... I don't think I can stand another day of seeing how they rehearse their arm waving in front of a mirror!... Oh, no, maestro Gergiev, I was talking to myself... Oh, no, please, not with the toothpick!...Ahhh!...


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, conductors are essential to the orchestra! I once saw a piano concerto (Rach's second, Op. 18) where the soloist was the conductor. I personally like having the conductor and soloist separate when performing concertos and such.... The conductor seems to be essential at almost all times during expressive works especially. It brings out the best in an orchestra (when both the conductor and the musicians are good, at least  ) 

Conducting is not just waving hands around. Rather, it is participating and enhancing the art of music in such a beautiful way, that it not only brings the musicians together as one orchestra, but the sounds of the several instruments flow as one beautiful melody/work. Musicians - have you tried conducting? It's absolutely wonderful.... I have done so several times, in my dreams....


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

I am planning to become a conductor, actually. 

Best regards, Dr


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

DrKilroy said:


> I am planning to become a conductor, actually.
> 
> Best regards, Dr


AAAHHHHH TAKE ME TO THE MUSIC SCHOOL AS WELL SO I CAN BE A CONDUCTOR TOO!!!!!!!!

...

Yup, I'll try never to listen to Rachmaninov while posting ever again. His music.... Too passionate.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

DrKilroy said:


> I am planning to become a conductor, actually.
> 
> Best regards, Dr


 How old are you?. I thought you were in your fifties!.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Here's the straight facts: conductors like their role cuz it's the most megalomaniac role of the whole orchestra! Just think about it. You can do ANYTHING you want. People can even hate you, but you can still be who you are. That is, unless there's a Union involved and you can be voted out.

But seriously, you can pick the tempos, the nuances, you can make all the crazy faces and ridiculous gestures you want (even if they are incoherent, the orchestra can't afford not to keep with you), and you can just have a blast conducting your favorite music with THE best seat in the house, the music directed straight at you from 10 feet away!! (could be on a stool too, not just standing) What's not to love???

I speak from my own in-depth experience, not of actually conducting, but watching student conductors grow. :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DrKilroy said:


> I am planning to become a conductor, actually.


Well, according to Nigel it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just practice in front of a mirror and try to remember how the music goes. If you get lost in performance, or your arms get out of sync, just glance over at the first violins. They usually know how the pieces go. And, as Richard Strauss cautions, never look at the trombones -- it only encourages them.


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## ShropshireMoose (Sep 2, 2013)

Of course conductors are important, regular concert going and listening to recordings of the same works by different conductors prove the point fairly easily. This week I bought the Vernon Handley recording of Bantock's "Fifine at the Fair", I've had the Beecham performance for years, but, that being from 1949 and in mono, I thought I'd get Handley's, in good modern sound. It got good reviews when it came out, well, my goodness, the difference! He never works the orchestra up in the more passionate sections anything like as vibrantly as Beecham, the result being that the whole thing sounds disjointed and does not hang together anywhere near as well. Are conductors important? YES YES YES!!


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

aleazk said:


> How old are you?. I thought you were in your fifties!.


Ahhh, perhaps mentally I am really like a fifty-year old man... Believe it or not, but I am the same age as COAG. :tiphat:

Best regards, Dr

PS Misleading, eh? 

PPS Wow, you made me feel old...


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## mattymusic (Sep 4, 2013)

conductors are so important!


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Without beating a dead horse, I have several times extolled Erich Leinsdorf's book "The Composer's Advocate," which should dispel anyone's misapprehension of what a good conductor "should" do.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

DrKilroy said:


> Ahhh, perhaps mentally I am really like a fifty-year old man... Believe it or not, but I am the same age as COAG. :tiphat:
> 
> Best regards, Dr
> 
> ...


How old is COAG???................


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mstar said:


> How old is COAG???................


COAG is sixteen,but your thoughts on Dr.Kilroy were probably affected by his avatar.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Well, I shouldn't really share my (or all the more someone else's!) exact age straightforwardly, but I can tell you we are both much younger than 50. 

I am young enough to choose what profession I want to learn.



GGluek said:


> Without beating a dead horse, I have several times extolled Erich Leinsdorf's book "The Composer's Advocate," which should dispel anyone's misapprehension of what a good conductor "should" do.


The conductor's task is to make the performance as best as possible, by all possible and effective means. Isn't it?

Best regards, Dr


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

DrKilroy said:


> Ahhh, perhaps mentally I am really like a fifty-year old man... Believe it or not, but I am the same age as COAG. :tiphat:
> 
> Best regards, Dr
> 
> ...


Considering you call yourself DOCTOR Kilroy, it seemed to imply that you actually were also a doctor in real life.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm really sorry! Dr Kilroy is an old nickname of mine (it is a name of an elderly Lego minifigure  ), I got used to it, it was never meant to imply real academic degree or medician's profession. I would never brag about it like that.  

Best regards, Dr


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

DrKilroy said:


> Ahhh, perhaps mentally I am really like a fifty-year old man... Believe it or not, but I am the same age as COAG. :tiphat:
> 
> Best regards, Dr
> 
> ...


I guess that what confused me was a combination of the avatar, the Dr in the nickname and your very polite signature "Best regards, Dr".
Also, yes, your style of writing gives the impression of a Dr!. Hey, that's a compliment .

Best regards, MSc aleazk (well, not yet!, but soon!)


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

DrKilroy said:


> The conductor's task is to make the performance as best as possible, by all possible and effective means. Isn't it?
> 
> Best regards, Dr


The conductor's task is to know more about the piece of music than anyone else in the hall . . .

Every note, what notes the composer wrote, what ones he didn't write, what ones he might have written but didn't, and whether or not to add them . . . what the performance and notation practice of the time was, what the notation actually meant in context, and how the composer customarily meant it based on everything else he wrote . . . what the desired or appropriate tempo and dynamics are and how circumstances might allow them to be varied . . .

. . . and how to communicate all of the above to the players -- both in rehearsal and at the concert.

Other than that, it's just waving your arms.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

Agreed! What you mentioned are, simply speaking, means of making the performance better. 

Best regards, Dr


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Believe it or not, in Ligeti's _Kammerkonzert_ there are a couple of indications which state that the performers must start with the conductor's tempo but later they should play with their own pace of that initial tempo. So, the conductor is literally left behind... waving his/her arms in the air:


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

DrKilroy said:


> Well, I shouldn't really share my (or all the more someone else's!) exact age straightforwardly, but I can tell you we are both much younger than 50.


W...w...wait.... M..me?!  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?....  :lol:


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2013)

Back to Ken's OP (Are conductors important?), here's a follow-up article from the same source:
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/02/male-conductors-better-orchestras-vasily-petrenko


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2013)

moody said:


> He's ugly and sad and middle-aged and not that good.


You never had 'a bad hair day', Moody? 
So, I disagree that he's ugly (but a bad photo), I have no idea if he's sad (but I doubt it; probably laughing all the way to the bank) and he's not that bad.


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