# Patterns in 1st and 2nd Violin Orchestrations.



## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

Hey everyone, I enjoy writing orchestral music every now and then, but one of the biggest problems I encounter is scoring for both Violin parts (particularly the 2nd Violins). I know that the 1st Violins tend to carry the melody, but what have you observed for the second? Sometimes they are in unison, sometimes just harmony, and sometimes even a completely different rhythm. I'm sure different composers used different techniques at times, but still, any pointers on how to determine the best option for scoring these two parts? Maybe some scenarios or something? Thanks. (And yes I do have Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration, I just haven't had time to read it.)


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm no expert, but I have played second violin more often than first. Seconds often play the same passage as firsts but an octave lower. Sometimes the seconds add harmony to the firsts by playing the same passage a third, fourth, fifth lower etc. Sometimes the seconds will play a counter melody, almost a fugal device. 

Seconds might also add rhythmic support. As cellos never want to play Pachabel, seconds never want to play a J Strauss waltz. The same two notes over and over.

Seconds also play with the violas, an octave higher, or in unison. Or some other interval for harmony. 

Lots of variety as a second violin player. You don't have the pay or glory of a first violin, but you need to be versatile. 

The best seat in the orchestra is second violin first desk inside player, next to the viola under the conductor. You can easily see the conductor, and you get the best balance of sound: cellos aren't too far away, winds and brass behind but you're in the middle so it's well balanced in sound. That's when firsts and seconds play to the left side of the conductor.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

To add to what Senza said, imagine also the antiphonal possibilities of the "old fashioned" (largely nineteenth century) seating convention wherein the seconds were arrayed to the right of the conductor (as the conductor faces) with the firsts to the left. There's some music (a lot of Mozart and all the way up to Brahms) that really "pops" when played that way. No reason not to write that way if doing so sends you.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

A related question: are the first and second violins in string quartets more likely to be doing completely different things than in full orchestras?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Yes. .


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## BabyGiraffe (Feb 24, 2017)

Some orchestras in the past were assigning the worse players in the Violin 2 section, leaving to Violin 1 the harder parts. Nowadays it doesn't matter - both Violin 1 and 2 should be able to do anything as long as you are not writing for amateurs or children.
BTW, you will learn orchestrations from score analysis and reading some of the good orchestrations manuals - Korsakov's book has some good information, but is dated.
Also consult players for the bowings or difficult passages.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

MarkW said:


> To add to what Senza said, imagine also the antiphonal possibilities of the "old fashioned" (largely nineteenth century) seating convention wherein the seconds were arrayed to the right of the conductor (as the conductor faces) with the firsts to the left. There's some music (a lot of Mozart and all the way up to Brahms) that really "pops" when played that way. No reason not to write that way if doing so sends you.


Bruckner benefits a lot from that style of seating.


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