# Single Round: Nothung, Nothung. Sembach, Lorenz, and Melchior



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I bombed. Go to Shaughnessy's offerings a couple of posts down. I tried but it didn't work out.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Everyone seems awfully dull in these recordings - not animated. And there are better efforts by Melchior, at least.
Sembach, a name unknown to me, seems the dullest. Perhaps the process doesn’t suit his voice. His cries of “aha” are swallowed.
Max Lorenz’s bright voice is not captured well in the recording and it’s rather a heavy _tempo. _
The Melchior is hampered by the recording transfer - is this one of his earliest efforts? He certainly does not stand out as he usually does.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MAS said:


> Everyone seems awfully dull in these recordings - not animated. And there are better efforts by Melchior, at least.
> Sembach, a name unknown to me, seems the dullest. Perhaps the process doesn’t suit his voice. His cries of “aha” are swallowed.
> Max Lorenz’s bright voice is not captured well in the recording and it’s rather heavy _tempo. _
> The Melchior is hampered by the recording transfer - is this one of his earliest efforts? He certainly does not stand out as he usually does.



Try these...







Johannes Sembach sings "Nothung! Nothung Neidliches Schwert" from "Siegfried" on Columbia A5842, recorded 25 April 1916.






Heroes and Heroines of Bayreuth: Max Lorenz (Historical Recordings 1928-1950)






Siegfried: Act, "Notung! Notung!" · Lauritz Melchior · Albert Reiss


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

This is really quite good -










Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l9IcOInnrHCYX9-ZAMGg32-GI8Wwsj_Lw




as is this -











Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lwnjS4d9ZFJNop7fzIdOwFHDs8T621mwo



Lorenz's operatic and recital career lasted almost three decades. He became known as one of the world's leading heldentenors, particularly renowned for his performances as Tristan.
At his best in the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s, Lorenz possessed a powerful, ringing voice which he used in an impassioned manner. Some of his recordings of operatic arias have been issued on CD. Notably, he was recorded live in a performance of _Die Meistersinger_ at the Bayreuth Festival (1943), under the baton of Furtwängler; and, in a performance of _Götterdämmerung_, also at Bayreuth (1952), under the baton of Josef Keilberth. He was also a notable Otello, Bacchus and Herod.

Lorenz was homosexual, but from 1932 he was married to Charlotte (Lotte) Appel, who was Jewish and was aware of his homosexuality. His homosexuality was mostly tolerated by the Nazis as a well-known secret. When Lorenz had to appear in court because of an affair with a young man, Joseph Goebbels advised Winifred Wagner, the director of the Bayreuth Festival, that Lorenz would not be suitable for the Festival. Wagner answered that in that case she might close the Festival because, without Lorenz, "Bayreuth can't be done."

As for his Jewish wife, Lorenz insisted on being open about his marriage, which was taken as a provocation by the Nazis. When Lorenz was away from his house, the SS burst in and tried to take his wife and mother-in-law away. At the last moment, they were prevented from doing so when Lotte Lorenz was able to make a phone call to the sister of Hermann Göring. The SS was ordered to leave their residence and not to bother the two women. Göring stated in a letter of 21 March 1943 that Lorenz was under his personal protection and that no action should be taken against him, his wife, or her mother.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

As MAS notes, the sound quality in these recordings is dull and definitely takes the edge off the voices (and of course the orchestras). But a 1916 recording can't hide the focused tone, easy emission and precision of Johannes Sembach. How lucky we would be to have a well-schooled heldentenor like this come along today, so that opera houses could put choirboy Klaus Florian Vogt and wobbler Andreas Schager (among other pretenders) out to pasture! Max Lorenz, well-represented on records, is better known now than Sembach, but to my ear Sembach is the better singer, though he lacks, at least on this recording, Lorenz's characteristic intensity. Melchior, a known quantity, has voice and intensity aplenty, and really can't be beat in this music.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> This is really quite good -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, Shaughnessy!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Everyone seems awfully dull in these recordings - not animated. And there are better efforts by Melchior, at least.
> Sembach, a name unknown to me, seems the dullest. Perhaps the process doesn’t suit his voice. His cries of “aha” are swallowed.
> Max Lorenz’s bright voice is not captured well in the recording and it’s rather a heavy _tempo. _
> The Melchior is hampered by the recording transfer - is this one of his earliest efforts? He certainly does not stand out as he usually does.


Go with Shaughnessy's offerings. I did research this and listened to all of them but I don't have the ears of you specialists and critics said both of the competition to Melchior were very talented. Should I take Tetrazinni and Lilli Lehmann off the contests since they are from this era and of the same recording techniques ? I love love both but the sound may be too bad for you guys and gals. I know many of you are mad for historic Wagner, hence the huge thread so I apologize for being off the mark with these. All I know of early Wagnerian tenors is from research and I do try give you a good variety. I tried to pick the official entries by the recording companies but they were lousy ones. I guess I should just cancel all of my historic Wagner recordings then.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

MAS said:


> Everyone seems awfully dull


This is funny, at least-


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Go with Shaughnessy's offerings. I did research this and listened to all of them but I don't have the ears of you specialists and critics said both of the competition to Melchior were very talented. Should I take Tetrazinni and Lilli Lehmann off the contests since they are from this era and of the same recording techniques ? I love love both but the sound may be too bad for you guys and gals. I know many of you are mad for historic Wagner, hence the huge thread so I apologize for being off the mark with these. All I know of early Wagnerian tenors is from research and I do try give you a good variety. I tried to pick the official entries by the recording companies but they were lousy ones. I guess I should just cancel all of my historic Wagner recordings then.


People who love opera and singers have one thing in common: they love to criticize - operas, voices and recording quality among them. If you’re going to change direction every time someone criticizes anything, you’re going to end up going around in circles. So suck it up  and let the games continue!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> People who love opera and singers have one thing in common: they love to criticize - operas, voices and recording quality among them. If you’re going to change direction every time someone criticizes anything, you’re going to end up going around in circles. So suck it up  and let the games continue!


Thanks. I'll do the best I can.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I have never understood the appeal of Lorenz on record. To me he always sounds off, like he cant find the exact pitch and like he's desperately forcing the voice out. His vibrato isn't steady, and to me he sounds like a modern singer with a bigger voice. Some people online say he's a greater heldentenor than Melchior, which to me is absolute madness.

The other two are much better. Sembach was new to me, while the technology doesn't allow a full assessment of things like timbre, he clearly had a powerful, steady voice that he used well. I didn't find it dull at all. Melchior is the best, however. He sails through with no apparent effort. His biggest flaw was that he sometimes swallowed his top notes, but he doesn't do that here, and everything is free and ringing. With a nod to Sembach, Melchior wins.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks. I'll do the best I can.


Do. This is an immense field, no one knows it all, and people have different expectations and must be tolerant of some missteps and general messiness. I think we're not only tolerant but grateful. Don't be embarrassed to let others help you out. We're all learning together.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Do. This is an immense field, no one knows it all, and people have different expecations and must be tolerant of some missteps and general messiness. I think we're not only tolerant but grateful. Don't be embarrassed to let others help you out. We're all learning together.


I had some trouble on the Wagner "bark" I think it is called in early Wotans. Early Wagner has proved tricky in the past for me but judges like you keep me paddling on LOL. It is a different world from early Italian opera I'm learning. To me they sounded wonderful but I'm an amateur who's learning here. I thank you and others for your always kind treatment of me. Always!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Error


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I have never understood the appeal of Lorenz on record. To me he always sounds off, like he cant find the exact pitch and like he's desperately forcing the voice out. His vibrato isn't steady, and to me he sounds like a modern singer with a bigger voice. Some people online say he's a greater heldentenor than Melchior, which to me is absolute madness.
> 
> The other two are much better. Sembach was new to me, while the technology doesn't allow a full assessment of things like timbre, he clearly had a powerful, steady voice that he used well. I didn't find it dull at all. Melchior is the best, however. He sails through with no apparent effort. His biggest flaw was that he sometimes swallowed his top notes, but he doesn't do that here, and everything is free and ringing. With a nod to Sembach, Melchior wins.


If I can get the august Vivalagentenuova to comment I feel I have been a success.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> This is funny, at least-


No comment on him BUT one thing this clip showed was how truly devilish the accompaniment is to the tenor. It is as much a star as he is.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I'd rather be a virtuoso violinist and hazard being weighed in the balances against Heifetz than be a _Heldentenor _and have my performances judged against the standard of Melchior.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> This is funny, at least-


It's entertaining. A wild child, grown up in the forest, is going to work as a plumber.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Melchior. No question.


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