# Favorite Shostakovich symphony cycle(s)



## KenOC

I’m really looking forward to reading everybody’s choices and thoughts on this. Please feel free to consider complete cycles, almost-complete cycles, and planned cycles that are well underway!

Extra credit: What do you usually look for in a performance of a Shostakovich symphony?


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## Jacck

Kondrashin. He brings the rawness, bleakness, coldness, emotion, intensity to these depressive symphonies from Russia's darkest years


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## D Smith

Of the complete cycles I’ve heard I would have to choose either Barshai or Haitink as the most consistently satisfying. However, Shostakovich, even more so than say Beethoven Brahms or Sibelius, benefits from picking individual performances. Of the 9 or 10 Shostakovich symphonies I listen to regularly, my favourite of each one is performed by a different conductor! So unlike Beethoven, I’ve not made much effort to listen to Shostakovich cycles. I’ve been enormously impressed with the ongoing recordings from Nelsons and Boston and if they ever complete the cycle, that would be my favourite most likely.


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## mbhaub

Ditto. The Boston/Nelsons series so far has been astonishing. Great playing, great sound, and best of all real conducting. Very impressive. I still find a lot to recommend in the Rostropovich set on Warner and Barshai is excellent all the way round. Kondrashin is very compelling, but the wretched Melodiya sound makes it impossible to be a top choice.


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## Bulldog

I'm partial to Kondrashin, Haitink, and Barshai. Have not listened yet to the Nelsons recordings, but I think they are on NML. I also like the Petrenko set.


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## Janspe

Vasily Petrenko's cycle with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra is an amazing effort and a worthy addition to any collection. Seems that not so many talk about it these days, though it's not that old.

But of course there are many others - a very crowded field indeed...


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## wkasimer

Bulldog said:


> I'm partial to Kondrashin, Haitink, and Barshai. Have not listened yet to the Nelsons recordings, but I think they are on NML. I also like the Petrenko set.


My preferences exactly, although I've only heard bits of the Petrenko. The Nelsons/BSO recordings have been terrific so far.

Another set that is excellent but doesn't get mentioned often is Ashkenazy's. I think that he's a much better conductor than he is a pianist.


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## KenOC

For me, DSCH's symphonies benefit from good sound. I like Petrenko's cycle very much both for the sonics and for his general approach - though he makes a few questionable choices as well as some inspired ones.

My real fave, though, is probably going to be Nelsons. Great engineering and the kind of deeply committed and serious performances that Shostakovich calls for. As mbhaud says, _real _conducting, and from the orchestra real playing as well.

D Smith has it right, though. Shostakovich is likely to generate symphony-by-symphony favorites. Who can beat Bernstein's _Leningrad_?


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## mbhaub

Actually, you could make a mini-set of Bernstein's DSCH: His old Columbia recording that couples 1 & 9 is marvelous. His 60 year old 5th is still one of the best, HIP be damned. The NYPO 7th is good, but cut. Fortunately the DG is top-drawer.


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## KenOC

Yes, can there ever be a better Leningrad? Bernstein _believed _in this symphony, while many do not.


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## Enthusiast

I am very happy with Kondrashin's set and also quite like many of the Jansons recordings in his set. I don't care so much for Barshai but he's OK. I also like several of the Caetani recordings very much but others are awful. I mostly rely on single symphony alternatives to supplement Kondrashin. I haven't heard much of Petrenko - what I have heard is OK - or any of Nelsons. I feel I have enough Shostakovich symphony recordings!


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## NLAdriaan

No one cycle is ideal. Any Shostakovich collection should include some Mravinsky upto 10 and Kondrashin for the late works. I cannot listen well to the old Melodyia recordings, but for both there are good sounding options. 8, 10 and 12 for Mravinsky and 13 and 15 for Kondrashin. In 14 I prefer Currentzis. I also like Gergiev a lot. I am curious how Nelsons will pick up 13 and 14, I guess I wlil buy his Boston cycle when it's finished. Haitink is a 'light European' alternative, excellent sound, and he was the first in the West to record a full cycle.

I listen to 8, 10, 13 and 14 mostly and to the string quartets.

My currently favoured recording of any Shostakovich is 13 with Kondrashin and Bavarian Radio, available as CD in Japan only, but apparently it can be found here on vinyl. Yesterday, I wrote my credentials on TC about this recording and about Kondrashin as a conductor during his 3 years in the West.


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## apricissimus

Kondrashin CDs are outrageously expensive at all of my go-to sources.


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## apricissimus

mbhaub said:


> Actually, you could make a mini-set of Bernstein's DSCH: His old Columbia recording that couples 1 & 9 is marvelous. His 60 year old 5th is still one of the best, HIP be damned. The NYPO 7th is good, but cut. Fortunately the DG is top-drawer.


Wait, there are HIP performances of Shostakovich? Have performance practices really changed that much since the mid-20th century?


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## KenOC

apricissimus said:


> Kondrashin CDs are outrageously expensive at all of my go-to sources.


Kondrashin's 10th and 15th are available for cheap as an MP3 download at Amazon. His 1st is included in the super-bargain Big Shostakovich Box, another download. CDs are altogether more difficult to find!


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## Kollwitz

Petrenko is really good, though I haven't heard the whole set. Committed playing and good sound with a clear vision, to my mind.

Also a big fan of the Barshai set (probably the best Secret Santa gift I'll ever receive).

I haven't got round to dabbling in many older recordings for Shostakovich yet (unlike Mahler, Bruckner and Brahms) beyond Mravinsky, who I like a lot. Will check some of those recommended here.


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## skywachr

I agree with the thought of different conductor/orchestra for different symphonies. I want specifically to mention that the live first ever recording of the Symphony No.13 by Kondrashin with the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra and Male Chorus on November 20, 1965 is something that can't be imagined for performance, impact and emotional intensity. It is a truly historical event and the presence of the audience and the sound of them only adds to the effect. It is available on vinyl at quite reasonable prices. My copy is on Everest. A reading of the performance history of the piece adds much to the experience as well.


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## KenOC

I've always wanted this Kondrashin cycle. Amazon has just two - one for $894.92 and the other for $1,642.83. But hey, the second includes free shipping! :lol:


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## mbhaub

apricissimus said:


> Wait, there are HIP performances of Shostakovich? Have performance practices really changed that much since the mid-20th century?


I refer to the closing pages. Bernstein, like many others, played it pretty quickly. Then along comes that book, Testimony, and all of the sudden conductors started playing the close s-l-o-w-l-y. In Bernstein's view it becomes an exciting, heroic and triumphal statement, but the current thinking is that it was supposed to be the thumb of Stalin beating the people into submission. I like it the old way. Maazel with Cleveland struck a good compromise. As a player, the "new" way is torture - will the last page ever end!! It's the same note over and over an over...


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## wkasimer

KenOC said:


> I've always wanted this Kondrashin cycle. Amazon has just two - one for $894.92 and the other for $1,642.83. But hey, the second includes free shipping! :lol:


Fortunately, it's on Spotify...


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## wkasimer

skywachr said:


> I want specifically to mention that the live first ever recording of the Symphony No.13 by Kondrashin with the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra and Male Chorus on November 20, 1965 is something that can't be imagined for performance, impact and emotional intensity. It is a truly historical event and the presence of the audience and the sound of them only adds to the effect. It is available on vinyl at quite reasonable prices. My copy is on Everest. A reading of the performance history of the piece adds much to the experience as well.


I don't have the Everest LP, but I think that the date may not be correct. The premiere of the 13th took place in December 1962. Kondrashin was actually the second choice to conduct - Mravinsky withdrew rather late, presumably due to political pressure. Ditto for the first choice of bass, the great Boris Gmyrya, and his substitute, Victor Nechipailo. Vitaly Gromadsky was hired only as Nechipailo's cover, and sang the premiere when Nechipailo was "asked" to substitute for an ill baritone at the Bolshoi. Not sure what's on the Everest LP, but I have this performance on CD:


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## apricissimus

mbhaub said:


> I refer to the closing pages. Bernstein, like many others, played it pretty quickly. Then along comes that book, Testimony, and all of the sudden conductors started playing the close s-l-o-w-l-y. In Bernstein's view it becomes an exciting, heroic and triumphal statement, but the current thinking is that it was supposed to be the thumb of Stalin beating the people into submission. I like it the old way. Maazel with Cleveland struck a good compromise. As a player, the "new" way is torture - will the last page ever end!! It's the same note over and over an over...


Bernstein's 5th is probably my favorite too. But I always took the finale of that particular work as more frenetic than triumphant. But I think a lot of DSCH's work sounds frenetic, so it still seems in character to me.


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## skywachr

wkasimer said:


> I don't have the Everest LP, but I think that the date may not be correct. The premiere of the 13th took place in December 1962. Kondrashin was actually the second choice to conduct - Mravinsky withdrew rather late, presumably due to political pressure. Ditto for the first choice of bass, the great Boris Gmyrya, and his substitute, Victor Nechipailo. Vitaly Gromadsky was hired only as Nechipailo's cover, and sang the premiere when Nechipailo was "asked" to substitute for an ill baritone at the Bolshoi. Not sure what's on the Everest LP, but I have this performance on CD:
> 
> View attachment 116543


To clarify, I did not say it was the first ever performance. It was the first ever recording. It is also why I mentioned the importance of looking at the history of this particular work and its performance. The first performance you mentioned was received with wild enthusiasm but there was no mention of it whatsoever in Pravda the next morning. It then literally disappeared and was not heard again until this performance on November 20, 1965. The verses in Babi Yar were considered too strong for any Soviet government to have tolerated at that time.

The Everest is that very performance of November 1965 and features Vitaly Gromadsky as bass. The lp is prominently labelled with the term Premiere Recording front and back with a very detailed history of the piece and its performance. Yevtushenko's poem Babi Yar was not given to the audience to read at the time of the very first performance and is printed on the back of the LP as well. Powerful stuff. Again, a reading of the history of the work and its performance is very enlightening on all of this.


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## elgar's ghost

Had he recorded a full cycle, especially a live one in stereo with good sound with the coughs and splutters mixed down, Yevgeni Mravinsky would have been a front runner. It's a real blow that he never recorded the 4th - I'd love to have heard how he would have approached that. As it stands, my favoured cycle is a combination of him, Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky.


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## WildThing

KenOC said:


> I've always wanted this Kondrashin cycle. Amazon has just two - one for $894.92 and the other for $1,642.83. But hey, the second includes free shipping! :lol:


It's also available in mp3 format for the slightly less absurd but still overpriced $98.89

Shostakovich & Kondrashin: Complete Symphonies

Thankfully I was able to snag my set when it was much more reasonably priced. Excellent.


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## paulbest

elgars ghost said:


> Had he recorded a full cycle, especially a live one in stereo with good sound with the coughs and splutters mixed down, Yevgeni Mravinsky would have been a front runner. It's a real blow that he never recorded the 4th - I'd love to have heard how he would have approached that. As it stands, my favoured cycle is a combination of him, Kondrashin and Rozhdestvensky.


This is a fair assessment.
I just lately, after 35 yrs, have made the major discovery, that Mravinsky was the great interpreter of DSCH, . I had heard a *raunchy* recording back 30 yrs ago on LP of a Mrv DSCH, and wasa *turn off*, so I never reconsidered. Now I realize the Mrav 5,7,8 and perhaps the finest, closely followed by my long time fav, Rozh, then very closely by Kond. Yet as you say, had Mrav had made a complete, his would have stood the test of time, Mrav made few/no studio. As a note, his Lenningard Orch was made up of all virtuoso, superior orch to even Rozh's USSR and Konds Moscow. It was a superior conductor + a superior orch which made the Mrav shine over Rozh and Kond, however, not every Mrav recording are equal, he made several of each. I have no time now to go back and decide which is which
DSCH's 8th sym is my favorite, I consider his greatest work, next to the great VC/Oistrakh , I have 2(3?) Oistrakh recordings, and 2 of Kogan. Oistrakh takes the prize.


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## KenOC

Today I managed, by hook or crook (mostly the latter) to finally get the Kondrashin cycle including the extras. That took some time! I just listened to his tone poem October, Op. 131. K does a bang-up job on this and generates more excitement than other versions I have.


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## paulbest

Oh yes, Kond does not take 2nd place to Rozh, each offer incredible performances. Its just we few DSCH completists need both recordings as a *must*. I would say if one has the Kond cycle, you are in for a real experience. It is nearly impossible to compare the 2 great Russian conductors, , a exercise in futility.


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## KenOC

Beethoven wrote his 9 symphonies over a period of 25 years. Shostakovich had a longer career and wrote 15 symphonies over 47 years.

In other words, Beethoven cranked out a symphony every 2.8 years. Shostakovich was a bit more leisurely, writing a symphony every 3.1 years.

Someday, when a man approaches you with a huge cash prize for the right answer, you’ll thank me for telling you this!


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## Enthusiast

KenOC said:


> Today I managed, by hook or crook (mostly the latter) to finally get the Kondrashin cycle including the extras. That took some time! I just listened to his tone poem October, Op. 131. K does a bang-up job on this and generates more excitement than other versions I have.


I'm sure you don't mean to but you make it sound like you stole it! I have had it since it came out (it was originally very cheap) but I'm sure many here would like to know if there is an alternative to theft.


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## elgar's ghost

I wonder how much the Kondrashin cycle goes for in Russia itself, either as a set or individually. Did Melodiya release only a limited quantity for the export market, hence the current inflated prices for used copies?


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## paulbest

elgars ghost said:


> I wonder how much the Kondrashin cycle goes for in Russia itself, either as a set or individually. Did Melodiya release only a limited quantity for the export market, hence the current inflated prices for used copies?


The Russians will only market a Kond/Rozh set if the market prices are strong. They want to get at least $100+ for the set. 
Every now and they these 2 sets are re=released on various labels. Some are better transfers than others. Its been awhile since either has been re-released.
What you should do is buy up any lose Meloydia in the Kond cycle, buy only your fav syms. Like the great 5,7,8. These 3 are must haves. They go for around $25+ each., but is subject to change = higher.


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## larold

I find Mravinsky and Ormandy the most consistently satisfying but neither produced an integral cycle. Of those I've heard I would vote for Oleg Caetani and the Coro Sinfonico di Milano Giuseppe Verdi as my favorite for sound, passion and approach. To me this set goes back to the older Russian style Mravinsky favored and avoids the more bloated modern style.


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## Enthusiast

Caetani had access to Mravinsky's notated scores (he is the son of Igor Markevitch). I do think several of his Shostakovich symphonies as among the best. But some are a little eccentric (I remember that 7 and 10 were not so good, for example).


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## flamencosketches

KenOC said:


> Today I managed, by hook or crook (mostly the latter) to finally get the Kondrashin cycle including the extras. That took some time! I just listened to his tone poem October, Op. 131. K does a bang-up job on this and generates more excitement than other versions I have.


Did you shell out the $900 for it? That's the one I want to get, but... yeah. That's my music budget for a year and then some.

How do we feel about the Rudolf Barshai set? Seems by far the most affordable.


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## elgar's ghost

paulbest said:


> The Russians will only market a Kond/Rozh set if the market prices are strong. They want to get at least $100+ for the set.
> Every now and they these 2 sets are re=released on various labels. Some are better transfers than others. Its been awhile since either has been re-released.
> What you should do is buy up any lose Meloydia in the Kond cycle, buy only your fav syms. Like the great 5,7,8. These 3 are must haves. They go for around $25+ each., but is subject to change = higher.


The only one left from the Kondrashin cycle I really want is the fourth, but I'm not pulling the trigger at those prices. My other Kondrashin/Melodiya purchases were as a result of unexpected one-off bargains which I was lucky to spot straight away and therefore had to snaffle up immediately.


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## Enthusiast

Just because prices are high doesn't mean the set is actually selling for those prices. The seller might wait quite some time (years) before finding a customer willing to part with a thousand dollars for an OOP set of Shostakovich symphonies. And in that time there is always a chance of a cheap reissue coming out and making it nearly worthless. The trouble is that even reducing the price to bargain $200 might still not lead to a sale but would cause other sellers to reduce their prices, too. Those interested will tend to have big wish lists with many items selling for a few Dollars. The big expensive items tend to stay on their wish lists. If you are up for a much cheaper but still not cheap set I would keep an eye on eBay.


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## flamencosketches

Personally, I'm holding out for a cheaper, different set. I love Shostakovich, but am not familiar enough with his symphonies to justify shelling out hundreds of dollars for a complete cycle. As I mentioned in a different thread, of his symphonies that I've heard I only enjoyed a couple.


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## rice

Let's wait for a reissue. Which is very likely to happen anyway. A jacked up sale from a reseller wouldn't bring in a dime for melodiya. I speculate they'll put it in a huge box set and milk more money. That's something they seem to like to do.


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## NLAdriaan

I was looking for this set quite a while and bought it today on a japanese auction site. Its a extremely well remastered version of the melodiya recordings by the South Korean Aulos label. It still has to find its way from Japan, but I am very happy with this purchase. Quite reasonable price, given its rarity. Not at all the absurd prices mentioned here.

Will let you guys know when it arrived


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## apricissimus

I want to hear the ongoing Nelsons cycle, but I'm going to wait till the cycle is complete, has been collected into a single set, and has had time to come down in price in the used/secondary market. (I think I'll have enough to keep me busy till then.)


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## apricissimus

It looks like Nelsons and the BSO are performing Shostakovich's 2nd and 12th symphonies in the 2019-2020 season. I assume they're being recorded for release (not the most robust set of DSCH's symphonies, but I suppose you have to get to them sometime.) They're also performing his first piano concerto and the chamber symphony arrangement of his 8th string quartet. Will they make it onto disc as extras (like King Lear, Festival Overture, etc.)?


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## Judith

Love the V Petrenko and RLPO. Got most of my Russian sets by them as they never let me down


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## larold

_Caetani had access to Mravinsky's notated scores (he is the son of Igor Markevitch). I do think several of his Shostakovich symphonies as among the best. But some are a little eccentric (I remember that 7 and 10 were not so good, for example). _

I find no eccentricities in any symphony in this set and find No. 7, in particular, among the most satisfying and BEST RECORDED versions I know -- right from the opening march through the heartfelt adagio to the majesty and glory of the victorious closing pages.

Are you sure you haven't confused Bernstein's famous "Leningrad" which is, common for him, loaded with eccentricity?


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## flamencosketches

Any love for Barshai? I listened to his Shostakovich 5th on the drive to work yesterday, and really enjoyed it. Liked it better than the Bernstein.


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## KenOC

flamencosketches said:


> Any love for Barshai? I listened to his Shostakovich 5th on the drive to work yesterday, and really enjoyed it. Liked it better than the Bernstein.


Barshai's set is quite good. It has been on sale from time to time, ten bucks or so, but I haven't seen any great bargains lately.


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## rice

I thought Bernstein's 5th was great at first. But then I discovered Mravinsky's interpretation (84' on Eratos). I like it so much that I started to collect his versions! 
Recordings in the Soviet era are a mess! I think I'm able to secure 6 versions or so. There're more in ridiculous price which I'll have to skip unfortunately. 

I've never had a preference on an orchestra or a favourite conductor. But I think Mravinsky and his Leningrad could be it! I feel that there's something special about the sound texture of this orchestra. Then I noticed that the first concert I went, which really brought me into classical music, was played by St. Peterburg Phil.  I don't know how much trait from the old Leningrad inherited to the modern St Peterburg but I sure enjoy the sound of both.


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## Orfeo

D Smith said:


> Of the complete cycles I've heard I would have to choose either Barshai or Haitink as the most consistently satisfying. *However, Shostakovich, even more so than say Beethoven Brahms or Sibelius, benefits from picking individual performances. Of the 9 or 10 Shostakovich symphonies I listen to regularly, my favourite of each one is performed by a different conductor! *So unlike Beethoven, I've not made much effort to listen to Shostakovich cycles. I've been enormously impressed with the ongoing recordings from Nelsons and Boston and if they ever complete the cycle, that would be my favourite most likely.


I quite agree, although Kondrashin strikes me particularly yet impressively consistent. But individually, I'll say that, in Symphonies numbers

II & III: Jarvi and the Gothenburg (DG)
IV: Jarvi and the RSNO (Chandos)
V: Svetlanov and the Russian Federation SO (Canyon)
VII: Bernstein and the Chicago SO (DG)
VIII: Solti and the Chicago SO (Decca)
X: Mravinsky with the Leningrad Philharmonic (Melodiya/BMG)
XI: Rostropovich with the National SO (Teldec) or DePreist and the Helsinki Philharmonic (Delos)
XIII: Kondrashin with the Moscow PO (rec. 1962, Melodiya/Russian Disc)


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## flamencosketches

Bumping this thread as I'm interested in Shostakovich's symphonies again. 

To those who have it, how would you describe in a few words the Rostropovich Shostakovich cycle? I am torn between it and the Barshai/WDR. I love the one CD I have of Rostropovich conducting, which includes the Prokofiev and Shostakovich first violin concertos.


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## Triplets

flamencosketches said:


> Bumping this thread as I'm interested in Shostakovich's symphonies again.
> 
> To those who have it, how would you describe in a few words the Rostropovich Shostakovich cycle? I am torn between it and the Barshai/WDR. I love the one CD I have of Rostropovich conducting, which includes the Prokofiev and Shostakovich first violin concertos.


Is that CD with Vengerov?


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## Enthusiast

I don't have the Rostropovich set but from the symphonies I have heard from it there are both good and poor performances in it (but that probably goes for most sets). I do have the Barshai and am in a minority in finding it merely OK. He has never been a conductor who I warm to even for his most celebrated recordings. He doesn't do enough for me with SHostakovich to make his set worthwhile. Petrenko is better.


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## CnC Bartok

This is an impossible question to answer, and I will have to echo the sentiments of many others in saying there's no ideal cycle of the Shostakovich symphonies. The complete sets I own are Barshai, Haitink, Janssons, Rostropovich, and Petrenko. Of those Barshai and Petrenko are the best, but they all have real highlights, and at the same time, virtually none make me feel Nos.2, 3, and 12 are worthy of the composer. Well, maybe Haitink in the two early ones!

My ideal set would include some of the recordings from these sets, but would include Mravinsky doing 10 and 12, Ormandy doing No.1, Kondrashin doing 13, Ancerl doing 5, 7 and 10 (but I'd also need a more modern recording of the latter) and Berglund doing the grossly under-rated No.11.


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## flamencosketches

Triplets said:


> Is that CD with Vengerov?


Yes, it is. An excellent soloist.


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## flamencosketches

Enthusiast said:


> I don't have the Rostropovich set but from the symphonies I have heard from it there are both good and poor performances in it (but that probably goes for most sets). I do have the Barshai and am in a minority in finding it merely OK. He has never been a conductor who I warm to even for his most celebrated recordings. He doesn't do enough for me with SHostakovich to make his set worthwhile. Petrenko is better.


The Petrenko set has gone down in price, so that is indeed one to consider now. I'll have to check it out.


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## blondheim

Barshai is to Shostakovich what Kubelik is to Mahler. If you like no-nonsense, fleet, classical-sounding interpretations with a little bounce, Barshai for sure. I am not overly familiar with many other complete sets, mostly individual interpretations, but I plan on doing a Shostakovich binge next and will definitely grab the Jansons box before I do. Barshai's lightness of touch does mean that some of the truly morbid, soul-shattering climaxes are handled succinctly, but listening to this whole cycle in one has a lot of benefits. It is sort of a palette-cleanser for idiomatic performances.

So far as individual interpretations go, the Nelsons are pretty excellent. I hope he gets to finish his Bruckner and Shosty cycles.


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## Gray Bean

I have been collecting the Nelsons cycle as it is released. The playing of the BSO is stunning. Didn’t the BSO used to go by the moniker “The Aristocrat of Orchestras”? I can hear it on these recordings. 
Box sets I like:
Kondrashin/Moscow (if you can find it for a reasonable price...the 4th alone is worth the price of admission)
Petrenko/RLPO 
Oleg Caetani/GVO of Milan
Rostropovich/NSO & LSO
Jansons/Various ensembles on EMI
Barshai Brilliant Box
Ormandy conducts Shostakovich Box (yes, really!)

And, of course, many individual records, but since this is about cycles, I’ll resist.


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## MatthewWeflen

I am not able to compare a dozen cycles against one another. But I can say that I purchased this set (Michael Sanderling/Dresdner Philharmonie Sony 2019) and have been consistently wowed by both the playing and the sound quality:


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## Gray Bean

MatthewWeflen said:


> I am not able to compare a dozen cycles against one another. But I can say that I purchased this set (Michael Sanderling/Dresdner Philharmonie Sony 2019) and have been consistently wowed by both the playing and the sound quality:
> 
> View attachment 139507


I snapped that set up too (along with his Beethoven cycle). I'm glad you like it. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.


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## blondheim

I was curious about this Sanderling set myself. What are the interpretations like?


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## Knorf

Enthusiast said:


> I do have the Barshai and am in a minority in finding it merely OK.


I also find the Barshai Shostakovich cycle merely OK. Whenever I listen to one of that cycle I'm either satisfied-but no more than that-or vaguely dissatisfied.

Mostly I've relied on individual symphony releases, not complete sets, and there many, many excellent choices. However, I think it's hard to argue with Kondrashin being one of the best performed sets overall, with fiercely committed interpretations and playing. Still, if you're looking for spectacular recorded sound, you'll be disappointed.

Haitink's set was once much lauded but this has shifted, in my opinion, to being underrated after some unexpected backlash. Some of the performances are fine but slightly underwhelming (Nos. 5, 6, & 9) but some are among the most exciting and spectacular anywhere (especially Nos. 4, 8, 11, 13, & 15), the others are at least competitive, and the recorded sound is always very good to superb. I think it's still an easy recommendation and can be had for cheap if you find a sale or whatever.

Rostropovich's is wildly inconsistent and rarely all that impressive, in my opinion.

But there's a serious caveat I must acknowledge: I've heard little or none the recent contributions from Sanderling, Petrenko, Caetani, Nelsons, Wigglesworth, Kitayenko, Sladkovsky, Ashkenazy, or Maxim Shostakovich... and it's big problem to make a strong recommendation about a complete Shostakovich cycle without sampling at least some symphonies from of all of them. Among these, I think I'm most curious about Sanderling, based on impressions from reviews I've read.

After many, many years where the options for a complete 15 were a Frankenstein set or Haitink, Barshai, or Kondrashin, it seems absolutely incredible to have so many choices for a complete (or eventually to be completed) Shostakovich cycle! But claims as to one or the other cycle being "best" are clearly spurious without considering these other choices.

Merl? Feel up for some massive Shostakovich Symphony cycle comparisons? You'd spend a small fortune collecting these sets.


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## blondheim

The first set I heard and became familiar with was the Kondrashin. It is expensive but absolutely worth it. I doubt we will ever hear another complete set like this. I prefer mono and early stereo so the sound is perfect for me. I like a dry mix. And its importance as a historical document can't really be contested. Short of early Mravinsky, this is it. While I enjoy Barshai's set very much, the Kondrashin is in a league of its own.


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## starthrower

Barshai is fine for me since the Kondrashin set is out of print. Petrenko's 10th is a good one. There is another older Russian conductor I like but his name escapes me. I don't think he recorded the whole cycle.


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## wkasimer

starthrower said:


> Barshai is fine for me since the Kondrashin set is out of print. Petrenko's 10th is a good one. There is another older Russian conductor I like but his name escapes me. I don't think he recorded the whole cycle.


Rozhdestvensky, perhaps?


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## blondheim

wkasimer said:


> Rozhdestvensky, perhaps?


That was my guess.


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## starthrower

wkasimer said:


> Rozhdestvensky, perhaps?


Good guess! I like him too but I'm thinking of someone else. It's Mravinsky.


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## KenOC

I have quite a few cycles and like (among others) the Caetani cycle. I hadn't heard of Oleg Caetani, so I looked him up in Wiki and got a surprise: "Caetani was born the son of the conductor and composer Igor Markevitch and his second wife Donna Topazia Caetani (1921—90), who is descended from a very old aristocratic Roman family that included the early 14th-century Pope Boniface VIII. Caetani has chosen to use his mother's family name to continue its lineage."


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## elgar's ghost

starthrower said:


> Good guess! I like him too but I'm thinking of someone else. It's Mravinsky.


It's regrettable that Mravinsky never recorded the 4th - I'm intrigued to think what he'd have done with it.


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## blondheim

The Fourth is my favorite as of now, though I am not as familiar with this repertoire as I should be. I plan on doing a deep-dive and fixing that soon.


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## MatthewWeflen

blondheim said:


> I was curious about this Sanderling set myself. What are the interpretations like?


I find them quite exciting, with exceptional detail. You can find a fair number of them on YouTube:






Presto Classical also has high quality excerpts on their site:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8619684--shostakovich-symphonies-nos-1-3
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8619686--shostakovich-symphonies-nos-5-6
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8619689--shostakovich-symphonies-nos-9-12


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## KenOC

MatthewWeflen said:


> I find them quite exciting, with exceptional detail. You can find a fair number of them on YouTube:


Actually the entire Michael Sanderling cycle is on YouTube, every symphony and movement, uploaded by Sony. I have no idea why the labels do this -- it would seem to cannibalize their media sales.


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## MatthewWeflen

KenOC said:


> Actually the entire Michael Sanderling cycle is on YouTube, every symphony and movement, uploaded by Sony. I have no idea why the labels do this -- it would seem to cannibalize their media sales.


I think they do receive a portion of ad revenues, and they probably view it as advertising for other delivery methods besides. Presumably the accountants have some formula for working out which approach makes more money.


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## dubai2000

I also like the M.Sanderling cycle a lot - great sound - and in comparison to the Petrenko I find it emotionally more involving - the Rozhdestvensky and Kondrashin are -obviously-also very good indeed.


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## Ravn

I prefer Askenazy, but I am not sure whether it qualifies as a cycle since it is done with three different orchestras. It is a really hard-hitting cycle, though! Strange that no-one has mentioned it yet.


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## blondheim

I have always been uncertain of conductors who used to be famous soloists. I know all conductors had to have studied at least one instrument, but when someone became so famous doing one thing for so long, I feel it can't help but lend an odd bias towards or against a certain kind of interpretation. I know I am probably very wrong about this overall, but it is a feeling I have had a hard time shaking.


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## wkasimer

Ravn said:


> I prefer Askenazy, but I am not sure whether it qualifies as a cycle since it is done with three different orchestras. It is a really hard-hitting cycle, though! Strange that no-one has mentioned it yet.


You're correct that it's rarely mentioned, but I believe that I mentioned it quite early in this thread.


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## wkasimer

blondheim said:


> I have always been uncertain of conductors who used to be famous soloists. I know all conductors had to have studied at least one instrument, but when someone became so famous doing one thing for so long, I feel it can't help but lend an odd bias towards or against a certain kind of interpretation. I know I am probably very wrong about this overall, but it is a feeling I have had a hard time shaking.


If you're talking about Ashkenazy, I think that he's a better conductor than an instrumentalist. And I would say the same of Casals and Menuhin.


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## blondheim

I am not knowledgeable enough about pianists to have an informed opinion here, but I will check out his conducting, I love Rachmaninoff and I know he has a set with the Concertgebouw that gets reviewed well. Piano is the one instrument that I actually think could benefit a conductor very much and I enjoyed his piano playing when he performed under Andre Previn doing Rachmaninoff concertos. I admit that I haven't heard enough interpretations to weigh them against one another well. I have made it a mission to listen to more concertos this year for this reason.


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## KenOC

blondheim said:


> I have always been uncertain of conductors who used to be famous soloists. I know all conductors had to have studied at least one instrument, but when someone became so famous doing one thing for so long, I feel it can't help but lend an odd bias towards or against a certain kind of interpretation. I know I am probably very wrong about this overall, but it is a feeling I have had a hard time shaking.


It seems to me that a soloist claiming to be a conductor is like a person who had been operated on claiming to be a surgeon.


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## Neo Romanza

Favorite Shostakovich symphonic cycles: Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky and Haitink.


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## blondheim

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that a soloist claiming to be a conductor is like a person who had been operated on claiming to be a surgeon.


Hahaha. I am glad I am not the only one with reservations. I gave Barenboim a chance with 3 Bruckner cycles, I think that's plenty.


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## consuono

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that a soloist claiming to be a conductor is like a person who had been operated on claiming to be a surgeon.


Yeah but then most conductors start out as "soloists" anyway, often mediocre ones. Sometimes it seems the rule has been "those who can't play, conduct". 


blondheim said:


> Piano is the one instrument that I actually think could benefit a conductor very much...


 Absolutely.

(edit)oh yeah, Shostakovich cycle...the Kondrashin is the one I know best via YT so that it is.


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## wkasimer

consuono said:


> Yeah but then most conductors start out as "soloists" anyway, often mediocre ones.


Actually, most conductors start out as orchestral musicians, unless they're pianists.


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## consuono

wkasimer said:


> Actually, most conductors start out as orchestral musicians, unless they're pianists.


Most have historically been pianists, though often not concert-level performers.


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## NLAdriaan

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that a soloist claiming to be a conductor is like a person who had been operated on claiming to be a surgeon.


I would prefer to be operated by someone who knows precisely how to play an instrument to someone who only dictates others how to play their instrument and can only wave a pencil in the air vaguely for too much money


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## billeames

Regarding Amazon resellers. For out of print items very overpriced, above market. That goes for anything that has high demand and not easily available. Ebay has issues too. Not as blatant as Amazon in my opinion. 

My favorites are Kondrashin, Haitink, Rozhdestvensky. Potentially Nelsons. Petrenko, Barshai, Rostropovich very good. I admire Jansons. Solti has a few symphonies here and there.


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## Subutai

My Shostakovich Symphony cycle looks something like this:

1. Ormandy / PO
4. Rattle / CBSO 
5. Bernstein / NYP
6. Mravinsky / LPO
7. Ashkenazy / SPSO
8. Haitink / RCO
9. Kondrashin / MPO
10. Karajan / BPO
11. Rostropovich / LSO
15. Sanderling / BPO

The above doesn't include his vocal symphonies (2/3/13/14) or #12.


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## Jan Arell

Hi, my first entry in this group. And I know I’m late in this discussion.
As many others I am very fond of the Kondrashin cycle, I have it on mp3 only. I love that raw sound of Soviet brass. To complement it, I’ll suggest the BIS recordings, conducted by Wigglesworth. Especially if you have Sacd equipment. I also have the Barshai box, which for a short while was available for around 25 dollars; look for the Brilliant Classics label. 
I also have a few Bernstein, Honeck, Pletnev, P Järvi, Koeman and Kitajenko, some of them as Sacd.
Greetings
Jan, Sweden


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## Neo Romanza

Jan Arell said:


> Hi, my first entry in this group. And I know I’m late in this discussion.
> As many others I am very fond of the Kondrashin cycle, I have it on mp3 only. I love that raw sound of Soviet brass. To complement it, I’ll suggest the BIS recordings, conducted by Wigglesworth. Especially if you have Sacd equipment. I also have the Barshai box, which for a short while was available for around 25 dollars; look for the Brilliant Classics label.
> I also have a few Bernstein, Honeck, Pletnev, P Järvi, Koeman and Kitajenko, some of them as Sacd.
> Greetings
> Jan, Sweden


I can't stand Wigglesworth! The dynamic range of his recordings are terrible. Some of the worst audio quality I've ever heard from BIS. When the reissued his cycle, they should've remixed the recordings. Kondrashin is outstanding, but, if I were you, I'd try and track down the box set (CDs) --- mp3 doesn't do any music justice. Barshai is an excellent cycle, too. So with Kondrashin and Barshai, you have two great cycles --- Kitajenko, too. Of course, those other conductors you mentioned didn't do complete cycles of the symphonies.

I wish Melodiya would get around to remastered/reissuing their Rozhdestvensky cycle. It's fantastic, but the audio quality leaves much to be desired as the strings are recessed and barely there in the mix. Hell, Kondrashin's nails-on-chalkboard performances sound better than Rozhdestvensky's.


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## larold

Enthusiast said:


> Caetani had access to Mravinsky's notated scores (he is the son of Igor Markevitch). I do think several of his Shostakovich symphonies as among the best. But some are a little eccentric (I remember that 7 and 10 were not so good, for example).


I agree 10 a clinker but disagree on 7. It is among my favorites of that work.


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## Jan Arell

Neo Romanza said:


> I can't stand Wigglesworth! The dynamic range of his recordings are terrible. Some of the worst audio quality I've ever heard from BIS. When the reissued his cycle, they should've remixed the recordings. Kondrashin is outstanding, but, if I were you, I'd try and track down the box set (CDs) --- mp3 doesn't do any music justice. Barshai is an excellent cycle, too. So with Kondrashin and Barshai, you have two great cycles --- Kitajenko, too. Of course, those other conductors you mentioned didn't do complete cycles of the symphonies.
> 
> I wish Melodiya would get around to remastered/reissuing their Rozhdestvensky cycle. It's fantastic, but the audio quality leaves much to be desired as the strings are recessed and barely there in the mix. Hell, Kondrashin's nails-on-chalkboard performances sound better than Rozhdestvensky's.
> 
> 
> Neo Romanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't stand Wigglesworth! The dynamic range of his recordings are terrible. Some of the worst audio quality I've ever heard from BIS. When the reissued his cycle, they should've remixed the recordings. Kondrashin is outstanding, but, if I were you, I'd try and track down the box set (CDs) --- mp3 doesn't do any music justice. Barshai is an excellent cycle, too. So with Kondrashin and Barshai, you have two great cycles --- Kitajenko, too. Of course, those other conductors you mentioned didn't do complete cycles of the symphonies.
> 
> I wish Melodiya would get around to remastered/reissuing their Rozhdestvensky cycle. It's fantastic, but the audio quality leaves much to be desired as the strings are recessed and barely there in the mix. Hell, Kondrashin's nails-on-chalkboard performances sound better than Rozhdestvensky's.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, BIS is famous for never using any compression on their recordings. That is why the dynamics vary so much. Maybe too much…
> Btw, I found that I have the Kondrashin cycle not as mp.3 but as flac files. Too many records.
Click to expand...


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## Holden4th

I only came to appreciate DSCH recently after hearing a performance of his 8th on the radio (Rostropovich LSO). I was immediately taken by the Scherzo and decided to look further into his music. Of course I looked for versions of the 8th and at the same time discovered that I really liked the 11th. I decided that to get into Shosty I needed a complete cycle and the Barshai was what I chose. 

Recordings of the 8th online led me to an incredible performance (with not very good sound) on BBC Legends of Mravrinsky conducting the Leningrad PO live in London. This also led me to Andre Previn with the LSO and virtually as good but with better sound. How he got the LSO to play the third movement so quickly is beyond me but it's exhilarating. I listened to the Bernstein 7th and it didn't grab me. I am still a Shosty newbie and agree with many who say that rather than a complete cycle, individual performances are the way to go.


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## Captainnumber36

One of my favorite symphonists along with Mozart and Beethoven.


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