# How do you think Yevgeni Onegin stacks up?



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

My wife being Russian - adores this opera.
Admittedly there are some fine moments - though I find Lensky's aria boring - an opinion which would get me shot if I said it in Russia.
In fact I find the opera itself compares poorly with the best of Italian and German opera. My wife wants to go and see it at Covent Garden the next time it comes around - and I'm thinking - oh my god - I'd rather go and watch a Handel opera.

Am I alone in this view?


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I've not ever seen this opera live but I own the MET version with Renee Fleming and Ramon Vargas and I love the opera. Not having been exposed to other versions though may taint my impression. I found the music exquisite and I found the staging to be really well done, although a bit minimalist for a MET production. I suppose though, that like you, I prefer Italian and German operas.

Kevin


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

stomanek said:


> My wife being Russian - adores this opera.
> Admittedly there are some fine moments - though I find Lensky's aria boring - an opinion which would get me shot if I said it in Russia.
> In fact I find the opera itself compares poorly with the best of Italian and German opera. My wife wants to go and see it at Covent Garden the next time it comes around - and I'm thinking - oh my god - I'd rather go and watch a Handel opera.
> 
> Am I alone in this view?


I think it is utterly brilliant - really wonderful music - Lensky's aria is on of my favourites , all that yearning and regret set to heartbreaking music - and a very interesting story a little out of the ordinary, taking the bones of the original Pushkin quite effectively. I have multiple versions on DVD (or Youtube) and the ROH one is one of the best.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Can we not accept that we have characters that vary and that this is reflected in our tastes, rather than say whether or not some established work is worthy of our attention. Of course, Eugene Onegin is and anybody who takes the trouble to thoroughly acquaint themselves with the work...and who has a heart and a mind...would recognise that...even if their own particular preferences lay elsewhere.
There's music that I am less-enthusiastic about but I don't intend to denigrate it.


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## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd say I agree with *mamascarlatti* in general - I think Onegin is very very lyrical (Tchaikovsky actually called it "lyrical scenes", not "opera") and very moving. Can you call it overly sentimental? Probably. But the emotional charge of the final scene for me surpasses the drama in the finale of Carmen. However (and don't shoot me now!) I agree with *stomanek* in that Lensky's aria is pretty boring. The duet that follows, however, is really sinister, and the echo from Lensky's aria that closes the act is chilling. OK, after writing this, I need to go play it agan... 

RD


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

stomanek said:


> though I find Lensky's aria boring - an opinion which would get me shot if I said it in Russia


not at all, i for one am hating this opera and Onegin as a character (the guy is nothing but a scoundrel) and i'd always go with _The Queen Of Spades_ instead.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

As sharik says Onegin is a bit of a scoundrel - self-centered and rather smug - which I think negates the charge of excessive sentimentality. If fact sentimentality gets you nowhere in this opera - look at Olga's treatment of the conventionally sentimental Lensky. She just laughs at him and goes off and dances with Onegin.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

i don't care for it at all. i find it boring and other than the famous letter
scene completely forgettable.
and i have seen it live.


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## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> As sharik says Onegin is a bit of a scoundrel - self-centered and rather smug - which I think negates the charge of excessive sentimentality. If fact sentimentality gets you nowhere in this opera - look at Olga's treatment of the conventionally sentimental Lensky. She just laughs at him and goes off and dances with Onegin.


I think the _music_ is very sentimental. I.e., Tchaikovsky's own treatment of his characters, including Tatyana's mother and nanny, Olga, Lensky, and even Onegin at the ball the 3rd act is very sentimental (loving, fatherly, soft - select the preferred one). Even the opening quartet is peaceful and sentimental. Add to that the idyllic setting of a countryside estate for most of the opera - and you've got it!

But to me, this doesn't really detract from the opera's dramatic impact, especially the finale!

RD


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> I think it is utterly brilliant - really wonderful music - Lensky's aria is on of my favourites , all that yearning and regret set to heartbreaking music - and a very interesting story a little out of the ordinary, taking the bones of the original Pushkin quite effectively. I have multiple versions on DVD (or Youtube) and the ROH one is one of the best.


I am with you. One of my favorites.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I think the 'dramatic' impact of the end of Carmen is the more powerful but the 'emotional' impact of Onegin is greater. 
A lifetime of bitter regret for Onegin lies ahead...rather than a relatively short wait of a few weeks before Don Jose meets his regretful end.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Count me among the_ Onegin _fans. Beautiful music (at least to my ears) and emotionally powerful. Agree with JCarmel about the impact of the ending in this opera.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh well then - looks like I am in the minority


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I like it, though not as much as Puccini or Mozart operas (my favorite opera composers thus far). I specifically like the ending because it speaks of loyalty rather than immediate passion. I am certainly not opposed to passion, but it's kind of nice with wild opera plots to have a character who honors their vow.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Very worthy sentiments, Sonata...but if you'd have seen the 'Prince Gremin' in one particular production that I went to see, you might have preferred the other option?! 
Weight loss wasn't just an 'available alternative' there....but a medical necessity?!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

JCarmel said:


> Very worthy sentiments, Sonata...but if you'd have seen the 'Prince Gremin' in one particular production that I went to see, you might have preferred the other option?!
> Weight loss wasn't just an 'available alternative' there....but a medical necessity?!


:lol:Marry in haste, repent at leisure?!


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Just by coincidence, I happened to be listening to Eugene Onegin when I first saw this thread ... for myself, I love the opera. 

I do have mixed feelings about it too. I can't hear it without feeling that Tchaikovsky really couldn't write for the voice ... the low women's voices never seem to come through clearly, as though muddled by design. 

But nevertheless I'm glad he did. For me the duel scene is far more heart-rending than the ending ... to me the duel is the real emotional heart of the opera, not the missed hookup between Tatyana and Onegin. After Gremin's great aria - which never fails to inspire me with the desire to be a singer myself - I always feel the opera is kind of over at that point, and I have a tendency to click over to something else at that point. I guess part of the reason I'm partial to it is that I've got Olga Borodina as Olga and Neil Shicoff as Lensky ... their performances really stand out.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

Indeed....I'm in agreement with admiration for those two singers. I almost always enjoy Olga Borodina's performances.
I think the duel is the dramatic heart of the opera, the consequences of which resonate throughout Onegin's life with the deepest pangs of regret, until he meets again with Tatyana. And that feeling of misery is made even more unmitigated, when is added to it... the pangs of unexpressed emotions and never-to-be-realised passions.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

JCarmel said:


> Indeed....I'm in agreement with admiration for those two singers. I almost always enjoy Olga Borodina's performances.
> I think the duel is the dramatic heart of the opera, the consequences of which resonate throughout Onegin's life with the deepest pangs of regret, until he meets again with Tatyana. And that feeling of misery is made even more unmitigated, when is added to it... the pangs of unexpressed emotions and never-to-be-realised passions.


Indeed ... I've got a couple of books by Pushkin from the library, I'm sure I'll get Eugene Onegin pretty soon. His stories so far seem to center on a kind of bereft upper class, lost in a maze of their own design ... pretty interesting stuff.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

'Lost in a maze of their own design?' ...oh, heck...that reminds me the casserole needs to come out t'oven?!
Could be Scrummy (but probably won't be!...)


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

To me, E.O. is just a collection of sometimes more, sometimes less successful arias in orchestral setting. I think Chaikovsky had better times composing.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I think 'MichaelSolo' must have had better times 'provoking'?!...
But we are not going to be provoked_ that_ easily?!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

It is odd indeed - my wife is Russian - is unmoved by germanic opera at all - and unmoved by Mozart utterly - as much as I am left cold by prince igor, onegin, boris goudonov (Blair had to sit through the latter when he went to St Peterburg - it was either that or one of the tchaik ballets - poor *******)


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

MichaelSolo said:


> To me, E.O. is just a collection of sometimes more, sometimes less successful arias in orchestral setting. I think Chaikovsky had better times composing.


Well I think you could make a case for a lot of operas being that, especially if you totally disregard the dramatic aspects. But that is seeing only half the picture.


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Well I think you could make a case for a lot of operas being that, especially if you totally disregard the dramatic aspects. But that is seeing only half the picture.


The point was, I could see very little space left for dramatic aspects in E.O. libretto and score.


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## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

stomanek said:


> (Blair had to sit through the latter when he went to St Peterburg - it was either that or one of the tchaik ballets - poor *******)


I know! I felt sorry for him too, but it wasn't even Godunov - it was "War and Peace". 5 hours of Prokofiev's vocal writing - what a welcome! 

RD


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I love it. It is one of my favourite operas, if not my favourite.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

RobertoDevereux said:


> I know! I felt sorry for him too, but it wasn't even Godunov - it was "War and Peace". 5 hours of Prokofiev's vocal writing - what a welcome!
> 
> RD


War and Peace is fantastic. I love it to bits.


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## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> War and Peace is fantastic. I love it to bits.


It is. Not easy though!  I saw Hvorostovsky and Netrebko as Andrey and Natasha at the Met and I brought a friend with me. After the last intermission he fell asleep properly and when the opera was over, all he could say was "Man! 'Long' is the word" 

Any particular part you like best? I still find the waltz exceptionally moving:






RD


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