# Are all violin sonatas accompanied by piano?



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Just seems like a horrible combination to me. I can't listen to violin and piano like that. I love violin concertos though. 

Why can't a violin be played all by itself? 

Is there any violin music in the classical realm that is truly solo?


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## OlivierM (Jul 31, 2014)

Rachel Podger has made a Bach's Sonatas & Partitas for solo violin cd.
You might want to try Eugène Ysaÿe too. Many versions of his sonatas for solo violin.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually, the sonatas by LvB are for piano and violin. The piano is not accompanying it is an equal partner


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## George O (Sep 29, 2014)

Bela Bartok (1881-1945)

Violin Concerto [the second one]

Ivry Gitlis, violin
Pro Musica Orchestra, Vienna / Jascha Horenstein

Sonata for Unaccompanied Violin

Ivry Gitlis, violin

on Vox (NYC), from 1955


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

JS Bach, Ysaye, Bartok, others.:tiphat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solo_violin_pieces


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Right. The cure is Nathan Milstein performing the unaccompanied sonatas and partitas by JS Bach.


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## stevens (Jun 23, 2014)

Yes! Lots of violin sonatas are genuin solo violin sonatas!


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## George O (Sep 29, 2014)

Artur Schnabel (1882-1951): Sonata for Solo Violin

Paul Zukofsky, violin

on CP² Recordings (NYC), from 1985
recorded 1983

This is a mighty obscure work, just under 48 minutes in length.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

You need to get this album into your life:

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608053531338867799&pid=15.1&P=0


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

My favourite solo violin work. The third movement (about 12 minutes into this video) is simply gorgeous.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2014)

I think the OP has been aptly dealt with by most of the replies above. However, I think that Beethoven's sonatas for cello and piano (or violin and piano) are incorrectly labelled. They are, IMHO, sonatas for *piano* and cello (or violin) accompaniment. What I mean is, the technical onus is much more on the pianist than the fiddle or that fat cello.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Some of the early Mozart sonatas for violin and keyboard are similar in that the emphasis was on the keyboard.
The later sonatas brought parity as well as recordings.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Some of the early Mozart sonatas for violin and keyboard are similar in that the emphasis was on the keyboard. The later sonatas brought *parity* as well as recordings.


*Not technical parity*, that's as sure as mustard is hot. I can only speak for the 'cello sonatas, which are a piece of cake compared to what to pianist has to execute.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> *Not technical parity*, that's as sure as mustard is hot. I can only speak for the 'cello sonatas, which are a piece of cake compared to what to pianist has to execute.


I don't know. The A Major cello sonata part sounds pretty challenging to me.

But what do I know, I only listen to it but don't play it.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I don't know. The A Major cello sonata part sounds pretty challenging to me.
> But what do I know, I only listen to it but don't play it.


Trust me, HP, the 'cello part is (technically) a doddle. The piano "accompaniment" is what _carries_ the work, and you need a bloody good pianist to mount any of these sonatas in a recital/exam.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Trust me, HP, the 'cello part is (technically) a doddle. The piano "accompaniment" is what _carries_ the work, and you need a bloody good pianist to mount any of these sonatas in a recital/exam.


This then seems to be the opposite of the Beethoven Triple Concerto where the violinist and cellist have the challenges and the pianist has a walk in the park.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The album linked above, Made in Germany, is a pretty good one. I haven't had time to check out all the referenced works though, but meanwhile, wasn't Paganini the greatest voilinist ever, or one of the greatest? So did he write any solo violin works? Those might be a good choice.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2014)

hpowders said:


> This then seems to be the opposite of the Beethoven Triple Concerto where the violinist and cellist have the challenges and *the pianist has a walk in the park*.


This is precisely the case! A reflection of the technical abilities of the original executants at the time of its première : a competent - but amateur - pianist, Prince Rudolph and (IIRC) professional cellist (Linke?) and violinist (who?).


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

There are also string duos with violin, viola or cellos, a few of them are called sonatas: http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_Compositions_for_String_Duo

Most of them are pretty obscure, and they don't list Bartok's 44 duos.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Just seems like a horrible combination to me. I can't listen to violin and piano like that. I love violin concertos though.
> 
> Why can't a violin be played all by itself?
> 
> Is there any violin music in the classical realm that is truly solo?


I once wrote a Sonata for Violin accompanied by Velcro, but as far as the listening public was concerned, it never gained any traction...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> This is precisely the case! A reflection of the technical abilities of the original executants at the time of its première : a competent - but amateur - pianist, Prince Rudolph and (IIRC) professional cellist (Linke?) and violinist (who?).


Too bad the pianist wasn't an accomplished virtuoso. Imagine how great the Triple Concerto might have been.
I like the Triple, but it could have been so much more. The slow movement especially has no depth to it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Too bad the pianist wasn't an accomplished virtuoso. Imagine how great the Triple Concerto might have been.


According to Schindler at least, the piano part was written for the Archduke Rudolph, then in his mid-teens. Doesn't pay to make your pupil look bad, especially if he's royalty!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

As far as I remember, there are quite a number of sonatas for violin accompanied by guitar, though I can't think of any specific examples now. I wonder what other instruments have been used as accompaniment. Marimba? Harp? Mozart wrote some delightful duos for violin and viola.

If truth be told, as great as some of the works for solo violin are, I find them difficult to listen to. Halfway through the first movement I find myself wincing. I experience the sound of the unaccompanied violin as rather shrill and somehow one-dimensional. I probably never would have explored Bach's work for solo violin had it not been for guitar transcriptions. 

Okay, you can lynch me now...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> As far as I remember, there are quite a number of sonatas for violin accompanied by guitar, though I can't think of any specific examples now.


Paganini did a fair number of these, though they're called duos. Examples:

http://www.amazon.com/Paganini-Giul...119584&sr=1-2&keywords=paganini+violin+guitar


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## Orpheus (Jul 15, 2012)

Speaking of Paganini, I'm surprised that I haven't yet seen any mention in this thread of his 24 caprices. They are probably the most notable works for_ solo_ violin, besides of course the Bach Sonatas and Partitas.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Florestan said:


> Are all violin sonatas accompanied by piano?
> Just seems like a horrible combination to me.


Thousands of composers have just gotten it wrong, then 

You can also look at this another way: with all the capacities a piano has, the fullest range bass to treble of any other instruments, pretty much from lower than any orchestral instrument to the same highest notes of other instruments, its dynamic range, the timbrel color possible from a good player, and its ultimate polyphonic ability, _why turn that all horrid by tossing in some screechy vibrato-wobbly damned string instrument?_


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## mikey (Nov 26, 2013)

Ravel thought the same hence why his Violin Sonata often sounds likes 2 instruments at odds with each other.
I'm curious as to whether these thoughts are solely for violin/piano? If it extends to other instruments, I'm afraid you're missing out on a hell of a lot of amazing repertoire.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Have been listening to the recommended video of Niccolo Paganini - 24 Caprices Op.1 and went from great enthusiasm to wondering if I would jam nails in my ear--this is great but starts to grate after so long. It may be that the only way to take violin is in a concerto. Piano alone is too stark, violin alone is very stark. Maybe a weepy violin. For now I'm going to play the sanctus from Beethoven's Missa Solemnis to wind down from the 24 Caprices.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Paul Hindemith (Hindemith springs rarely to most people's minds!)

Sonata for Solo Violin, Op. 11, No. 6 (1917)
Sonata for Solo Violin, Op. 31, No. 1 (1924)
Sonata for Solo Violin, Op. 31, No. 2 (1924)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> According to Schindler at least, the piano part was written for the Archduke Rudolph, then in his mid-teens. Doesn't pay to make your pupil look bad, especially if he's royalty!


Yes. Too bad. Imagine what could have been. Still a delightful work.

Good thing_ Schindler_ kept a _list._


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I see elsewhere on this site that Bach did some solo violin works. They might do, but meanwhile I wonder if Beethoven or Mendelssohn did any solo violin works.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Florestan said:


> I see elsewhere on this site that Bach did some solo violin works. They might do, but meanwhile I wonder if Beethoven or Mendelssohn did any solo violin works.


My guess is that you would draw a blank here. Works for solo violin didn't really feature high on the agenda once the baroque period was over and that was pretty much the state of affairs (Paganini and Wieniawski excepted) until the early 20th century when works for solo strings began to regain favour, firstly with Reger.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

Alan Hovhaness [1911-2000] wrote a wonderful solo violin piece called Yeraz, Op. 56b, "The Dream," for solo violin. Sorry, but I couldn't find a link to it. Nor could I find a link to his solo Viola Sonata, Op. 423, which I intended to use as a condolence.

I did, however, find links to this wonderful solo viola work; Chahagir, Op. 56a, for solo viola










cheers


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Selby said:


> Alan Hovhaness [1911-2000] wrote a wonderful solo violin piece called Yeraz, Op. 56b, "The Dream," for solo violin. Sorry, but I couldn't find a link to it. Nor could I find a link to his solo Viola Sonata, Op. 423, which I intended to use as a condolence.
> 
> I did, however, find links to this wonderful solo viola work; Chahagir, Op. 56a, for solo viola
> 
> ...


That is fascinating!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The greatest three violin sonatas, which happen to have been composed by Bach, are for violin alone.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> My guess is that you would draw a blank here. Works for solo violin didn't really feature high on the agenda once the baroque period was over and that was pretty much the state of affairs (Paganini and Wieniawski excepted) until the early 20th century when works for solo strings began to regain favour, firstly with Reger.


I don't think there's much solo violin music from the baroque period either, is there? It's strange because there was a lot of solo viol music.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Telemann composed 12 fantasias for solo violin, and there's the capricci for solo violin drawned from Locatelli's concertos. Biber's sonata representativa is woth hearing and Tartini composed solo violin pieces (championed by Andrew Manze in a beautiful album). Leclaire composed duets for unacompainned violin, just to mention some works from the baroque not mentioned before.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Maybe I should get this. It has 16 Bach violin tracks (sonatas and partitas) and a lot of other violin tracks (116 total tracks), all for 99 cents!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M5NXYWG/


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Heliogabo said:


> Telemann composed 12 fantasias for solo violin, and there's the capricci for solo violin drawned from Locatelli's concertos. Biber's sonata representativa is woth hearing and Tartini composed solo violin pieces (championed by Andrew Manze in a beautiful album). Leclaire composed duets for unacompainned violin, just to mention some works from the baroque not mentioned before.


Thanks, I know the Telemann. The Leclaire and the Biber sonatas are with continuo aren't they?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Florestan said:


> Just seems like a horrible combination to me.


Yes, violin and organ work well together.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Florestan said:


> Is there any violin music in the classical realm that is truly solo?


Try Paganini if you like that kind of thing - 24 caprices is hilarious


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Florestan said:


> Why can't a violin be played all by itself?


Because its sound is dry and shrill, and after a few minutes it becomes unbearable.

I know, I know: mine is a minority opinion and I'll probably be pelted by eggs and rotten tomatoes.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

brianvds said:


> Because its sound is dry and shrill, and after a few minutes it becomes unbearable.
> 
> I know, I know: mine is a minority opinion and I'll probably be pelted by eggs and rotten tomatoes.


I actually totally agree. I adore the violin when accompanied - the violin concerto may be my favourite form - but solo violin is both monophonic (unlike the piano)_ and_ high-pitched (unlike the cello, which is lovely by itself) which makes it unbearable after a while


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> Thanks, I know the Telemann. The Leclaire and the Biber sonatas are with continuo aren't they?


No, both of them are for solo violin, without continuo. Maybe some versions include the continuo part, but I think they were composed for solo violin.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Sonatas da chiesa, common in the Baroque, use organ and a bass instrument to accompany.

Then there is Prokofiev's Sonata for two violins.



brianvds said:


> Because its sound is dry and shrill, and after a few minutes it becomes unbearable.
> 
> I know, I know: mine is a minority opinion and I'll probably be pelted by eggs and rotten tomatoes.


I've known a couple of people who who find violin tone intensely unpleasant, even though they liked it earlier in life. What seems to have changed their response was coming to rely on hearing aids.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Florestan said:


> * Are all violin sonatas accompanied by piano?
> *
> Just seems like a horrible combination to me. I can't listen to violin and piano like that. I love violin concertos though.
> 
> ...


There is this! Not exactly solo, but not a piano either!


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

A great solo violin sonata is Honegger's. Also Godard.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> I've known a couple of people who who find violin tone intensely unpleasant, even though they liked it earlier in life. What seems to have changed their response was coming to rely on hearing aids.


Not sure that would happen to me. I think one reason I like violin is that I love to turn creaky door hinges very slowly!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

brianvds said:


> Because its sound is dry and shrill, and after a few minutes it becomes unbearable.
> 
> I know, I know: mine is a minority opinion and I'll probably be pelted by eggs and rotten tomatoes.


It could be worse. I have a co-worker who says he breaks out in hives when listening to unaccompanied violin/violin concertos. He said he almost had to go to the hospital once! He does not have any problems with the cello or other instruments.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> I've known a couple of people who who find violin tone intensely unpleasant, even though they liked it earlier in life. What seems to have changed their response was coming to rely on hearing aids.


I don't need hearing aids, but I do mostly listen to recorded rather than live music. And I suspect this thing with shrill violins is to some extent a problem with recordings rather than live performances. Somehow, a violin heard through speakers, whether they be my headphones or, perhaps, the speakers in hearing aids, is just not the same.

But I do seem to be somewhat sensitive to high pitched sounds, e.g. as much as I adore the recorder, this only goes for the alto and the lower members of the family. I find the soprano and sopranino almost unbearable if they play a major role or keep on for an extended time.

Live music is probably best, though I run into a different problem there: the other day I attended a concert by a local youth orchestra, and found the sound so unbearably loud that I had to improvise earplugs out of tissue paper. How on earth the conductor manages not to end up with significant hearing loss, I don't know.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: No. There are unaccompanied violin sonatas such as the magnificent three that Bach wrote.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

There are many violin sonatas that don't involve the piano or fortepiano, but instead a harpsichord or organ or another instrument or even instruments on the continuo part. For example, the Violin Sonatas written by J.S. Bach, Arcangelo Corelli, G.F. Handel, Jean-Féry Rebel, Francesco Geminiani, Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber, Johann Heinrich Schmelzer, Antonio Vivaldi, and many other Baroque composers (in addition to their sonatas for solo violin).

Though you might also try violin sonata recordings played by a period violin & fortepiano, to see if you feel any differently about the balances there, as the fortepiano doesn't dominate the violin the way a piano can. For this purpose, I'd suggest Rachel Podger's Mozart Violin Sonata recordings with Gary Cooper on Channel Classics Hybrid SACDs, as a sampler:






Biber:













Schmelzer:









J.S. Bach:




https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072Z9JLL9/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp













G.F. Handel:





Corelli:




https://www.amazon.com/Corelli-Viol...05461&sr=8-1&keywords=corelli+sonatas+dantone





Geminiani:





Rebel:









Vivaldi:









Etc. etc.

The old joke is that the piano only won out over the harpsichord because it provided more space for musicians to lay their coats.

With that said, I would add that the violin has never sounded as warm or as inviting or beautiful on CD as it once did on LPs (despite the crackles), & particularly in chamber music. With the advent of the CD technology in the 1980s, the violin took on a grittier, more metallic, often grating sound than it ever had on LPs (though the recordings & remasters have been getting better in the past decade or so, especially via the analogue remasters by Pentatone (its "Remastered Classics" series) and Universal's "Eloquence" series (in Ambient Surround Sound--or AMSI), and on DSD hybrid SACDs (even when played on a conventional player). Period violins have fared worse, of course, and can sometimes become too grating to enjoy on CD, IMO (such as on Stephano Montanari & Christophe Rousset's recording of Bach Violin Sonatas, which I have difficulty listening to for this reason; yet, I very much enjoy Montanari's Corelli Violin Sonatas with Accademia Bizantina on hybrid SACD). & I believe this edgier sound often becomes more exposed on the more intimate violin sonata recordings than it does on concerto recordings. In addition, the violin is relentlessly miked today, often too closely, which also contributes to its lack of warmth--even live in concert, if the venue is smaller and more intimate. I've actually walked out of concerts because the violin was too closely miked, and I couldn't take the sound.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Hindemith wrote at least one Sonata for solo violin (Op.31?), as well as his better known ones for solo viola.


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