# First Round:Mon cœur s'ouvre à ta voix. Gorr, Castagna



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I LOVE this aria. I wish I had a full aria of Farrell singing it as she was so fabulous in Interrupted Melody singing it. She only sings one verse but she uses lots of chest voice which she rarely did. I have a whole slew of singers for you like I do for Ah Perfido.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Much as I admire Gorr, and her rendition on the complete set shows more dynamic variation than on her EMI recital, her bronze tone lacks sensuality. Her French is better of course than that of Castagna though as she spoke it since birth. Castagna I think would have preferred to sing it in Italian as did Stignani.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

With what I had to work with it is clearly Rita Gorr.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> Much as I admire Gorr, and her rendition on the complete set shows more dynamic variation than on her EMI recital, her bronze tone lacks sensuality. Her French is better of course than that of Castagna though as she spoke it since birth. Castagna I think would have preferred to sing it in Italian as did Stignani.


I don't know what video of Gorr you mean. I can change it. Just doing my best with the information Youtube gave me. I don't know Gorr very well.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I can change it but I don't know which video you refer to when you say her EMI recital. These are things not always found on Youtube by a person with my skills or lack thereof.


Oops. Gorr did not previously record Mon Coeur. She previously recorded Printemps qui commence on that recital I speak of called The Operatic World of Rita Gorr


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

It’s funny how we all hear and internalize stuff differently. For me, this aria ranks among some of the most _vulgar_ music written for the voice, right up there with _l’umille ancella_ and, although from a musical, _I could have danced all night_. None were written with people like me in mind, for sure. Stick in the mud and all that. I can take it.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

ALT said:


> It’s funny how we all hear and internalize stuff differently. For me, this aria ranks among some of the most _vulgar_ music written for the voice, right up there with _l’umille ancella_ and, although from a musical, _I could have danced all night_. None were written with people like me in mind, for sure. Stick in the mud and all that. I can take it.


Well Mae West sang part of it.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Francasacchi said:


> Well Mae West sang part of it.


Figures she would.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I have the impression that agora is not singing out, but in. It could be a peculiarity of the recording or that she’s not leaning into her lower tones or the end of phrases as much. The contrast with Vickers is interesting as he sings out as well as with more delineation. Gorr is all smooth rounded tones and almost swallowed vowels in an effort at legato. Mamma Rose would’ve been disappointed (“sing out, Louise!”)

Castagna seems almost as the antithesis of Gorr, as she is very much singing out in an almost un-sensuous manner and you can get every word. If there had been a Samson, he would’ve understood her, but perhaps not seduced.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I wasn't sure until Castagna reached the 'ah! Responds' section which she phrases so beautifully. I wish there were a met broadcast of her in the role, maybe with Rene Maison as the tenor or something.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Why are both conductors speeding up this aria so much ? I was ready to say I like neither because it us too fast  . But then something in the singing of Bruna Castagna moved me, so it was an easy vote.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Based on this and her "Printemps qui commence," Castagna was a most attractive singer, warm, direct and expressive, with a free and easy vocal production. She takes this round easily.

I've never liked the Vickers/Gorr _Samson_ recording. I find big-voiced Gorr a rough-toned and unseductive Dalila - she was better as Fricka arguing with Wotan - and I don't care for Vickers in French opera except in the overtly dramatic bits. His very loud high note at the end belongs in _Otello._


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I was not really familiar with either till I was preparing for the contest. I greatly enjoyed everyone's insights into these two singers. I have some really fabulous singers in this contest coming up.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ALT said:


> It’s funny how we all hear and internalize stuff differently. For me, this aria ranks among some of the most _vulgar_ music written for the voice, right up there with _l’umille ancella_ and, although from a musical, _I could have danced all night_. None were written with people like me in mind, for sure. Stick in the mud and all that. I can take it.


People seem to have a problem with Saints Saëns in general. There is a quip by another musician, that his is a "bad music well written". I do not understand it, one day I will ask about it in the general forum.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> People seem to have a problem with Saints Saëns in general. There is a quip by another musician, that his is a "bad music well written". I do not understand it, one day I will ask about it in the general forum.


I have noticed that too. Even in the movie about Florence Foster Jenkins Saint-Saens is used as a dig to show Madame Jenkins ostensibly low brow sensibility. McMoon gets the job as accompanist because he charms her by playing The Swan and the other candidates who played Beethoven or what not don't get it and are furious McMoon played what they imply is a piece of fluff.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> I have noticed that too. Even in the movie about Florence Foster Jenkins Saint-Saens is used as a dig to show Madame Jenkins ostensibly low brow sensibility. McMoon gets the job as accompanist because he charms her by playing The Swan and the other candidates who played Beethoven or what not don't get it and are furious McMoon played what they imply is a piece of fluff.


I am suspect of anyone who doesn't love The Carnival of the Animals. Come on!!!!!! It has so much simply gorgeous music. I think great music speaks to our inner child very often. I think the present aria has one of the most beautiful accompaniment of ANY aria. In the right hands, such as Callas or Stignani, it is an overwhelmingly beautiful aria. Also stunning are his piano concertos and the organ symphony. I love him.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am suspect of anyone who doesn't love The Carnival of the Animals. Come on!!!!!! It has so much simply gorgeous music. I think great music speaks to our inner child very often. I think the present aria has one of the most beautiful accompaniment of ANY aria. In the right hands, such as Callas or Stignani, it is an overwhelmingly beautiful aria. Also stunning are his piano concertos and the organ *concerto*. I love him.


Ohh really?!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Becca said:


> Ohh really?!


You caught me, but it is easy to do at my age LOL.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You caught me, but it is easy to do at my age LOL.


Don't talk to me about age


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

ALT said:


> It’s funny how we all hear and internalize stuff differently. For me, this aria ranks among some of the most _vulgar_ music written for the voice, right up there with _l’umille ancella_ and, although from a musical, _I could have danced all night_. None were written with people like me in mind, for sure. Stick in the mud and all that. I can take it.


It's literally a story of a harlot seducing a mighty hero. Were you expecting it to be classy or noble?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> It's literally a story of a harlot seducing a mighty hero. Were you expecting it to be classy or noble?


Remember it is in the Holy Bible, for heaven's sake! Don't speak ill of God's Word, as my mama would say


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Remember it is in the Holy Bible, for heaven's sake! Don't speak ill of God's Word, as my mama would say


Am I supposed to speak highly of Harrod, Jezebel, Saul and Judas?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Am I supposed to speak highly of Harrod, Jezebel, Saul and Judas?


I grew up steeped in the church and was being silly. It is a Southern thang


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I grew up steeped in the church and was being silly. It is a Southern thang


I live in South Carolina. 'Bout as Dixie as you gon' git round here.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I live in South Carolina. 'Bout as Dixie as you gon' git round here.


I thought so. I was going to be a preacher a thousand years ago with a Masters of Divinity degree and my daddy worked for the Baptist church. Haven't been to church in years, though. Well, my Toastmasters meets in a Baptist church, so it follows me around.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I thought so. I was going to be a preacher a thousand years ago with a Masters of Divinity degree and my daddy worked for the Baptist church. Haven't been to church in years, though. Well, my Toastmasters meets in a Baptist church, so it follows me around.


You young'uns ain't got nuthin' on a Nazarene boy from deep in the heart of South Jersey. I stayed home from church one Sunday night to watch a classical music concert on TV and had to face a brief inquisition on my truancy. I could just feel the flames lapping at my heels!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I lived and worked in the South of USA for some time. My various colleagues wanted to donate me different bibles, each one being the one and only correct version. Now I am out !

Dalila loved Samson in this opera and didn't pay enough attention to her subconscious self. The scholars write articles about it, so it must be true.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> You young'uns ain't got nuthin' on a Nazarene boy from deep in the heart of South Jersey. I stayed home from church one Sunday night to watch a classical music concert on TV and had to face a brief inquisition on my truancy. I could just feel the flames lapping at my heels!


OMG. I never knew!!!
I found the following line hilarious, which will be lost on some members. I read a short story about a young man raised in a Pentecostal family from a tiny town on the buckle on the Bible belt. He couldn't afford to go to a religious college so went to the U of Florida. His assigned roommate was an atheist Jew from Queens. After trying to win him unsuccessfully to Christ he commented: " Where I'm from even the sinners believe in Gawd!!" LOL.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BBSVK said:


> Dalila loved Samson in this opera and didn't pay enough attention to her subconscious self. The scholars write articles about it, so it must be true.


Alas, the subconscious wasn't the urbane, clever and shallow Saint-Saens' bailiwick. If we want a Dalila with depth, we need to consider what more profound composers would have done with her. If Strauss had composed the opera, for example, a teenage Dalome would have expressed her subconscious uninhibitedly by cutting off Samsonaan's head rather than his hair. If Wagner had written it, the abducted princess Dalholde would have offered Samstan a special draught made from fig juice and viper venom intended to make them die together but getting them helplessly intoxicated instead. If Verdi had composed it, a mortally ill Daliletta would have tried to suppress her embarrassingly subconscious feelings with modal melismas and then retired to her aromatic Cedar-of-Lebanon bed to expire virtuously. If Puccini had written it, Daliminnia would have yielded to her subconscious urgings, galloped in on her Arabian steed just as the Philistines were about to kill Sansone, thrown him over her saddle, and hired a Phoenician rowing crew to sail them to California. If Mozart had written it Donna Dalvira would have kvetched for three hours about how Don Sansovanni took advantage of her subconscious along with the rest of the harem even while knowing she would have him back in a New Babylon minute if he would promise to do that thing he did last time. If Berg...

No, I won't go there. Tales of the subconscious should always end on a high note.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

OK. I'm going to start with a particular bugbear of mine regarding this aria. Very few singers sing what Saint-Saéns actually wrote, which is that the phrase _Ah réponds à ma tendresse _(note only one _réponds_) should be sung in one breath, which could also be an indication of the sort of tempo he wants it sung at. Most singers add the second _réponds _to enable them to take a second breath, thus making the phrase much easier. Not surprisingly Callas is one of the only singers who sings what the composer wrote and I wait for it each time. Neither singer here sings the phrase in one breath.

Having got that out of the way, let me turn to these two particular performances. I have never much liked Gorr in this role and I don't like her here. I prefer Castagna, because she phrases more sensitively, but, if I'm honest, I don't think either singer sounds particularly sensuous or seductive. Castagna gets my vote because I prefer the sound of her voice, but I don't think she's ideal either.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Francasacchi said:


> ... in the movie about Florence Foster Jenkins Saint-Saens is used as a dig to show Madame Jenkins ostensibly low brow sensibility. ...


Which movie is it ?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Which movie is it ?


I'm guessing it's this one.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Rita Gorr is sublime. And she's not hurt by her 'back up singer' Jon Vickers. Uneasy choice for me.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

[QUOTE="Woodduck, post: 2372713, memberIf Berg...

No, I won't go there. Tales of the subconscious should always end on a high note.
[/QUOTE]
The roof falls down in the end, doesn't it? At least in libretto. Isn't it a clash of unconscious with collective unconscious?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

There were so many Dalilah threads these weeks that I began to confuse what and where I had heard and written. 
As no other part Dalilah is opened for various voices and role patterns. Every singer, except particular voice qualities, realizes Dalilah in her own way, whether she loves Samson or not, how to manage a seduction, what does she think of Dagon's priest etc. So, in this particular round Rita Gorr sounds right for me, while Bruna Castagna disguises as pseudoinfantile capricious girl. It adds to the performance a comic sense, the plot almost turns to be a story about a good boy destroyed by a shiksa.


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