# what do you think about metal/rock arrangements of classical music pieces?



## jasn (Mar 20, 2014)

with the evolution of the guitar and the incursion of african rythms in music and the facility to obtain sheets of classical music, has made that a lot of people are doing covers of classical music pieces in rock/metal style, what do you think about them? do you like them? do you hate it? do you think is better to play them in a purism way? do you think electric guitar can be some day an orchestral instrument?

i let you toccata and fugue in D minor metal style, did you hate it or like it?


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I have nothing against the idea of the electric guitar used in classical music but certainly not like it's used by Malmsteen and all his imitators. That version is made in poor taste, and there the guitar is the minor problem.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

I think it is simply awful, I dislike most transcriptions with the notable exception of piano transcriptions of orchestral scored.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

No thanks.

I have a hard time seeing an electric guitar as an "orchestral" instrument in general. I think it would too easily overpower the rest of the orchestra. (But perhaps I'm biased. After a lifetime of being inundated with guitar-based music, I'm sick of it.)


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2014)

norman bates said:


> I have nothing against the idea of the electric guitar used in classical music but certainly not like it's used by Malmsteen and all his imitators. That version is made in poor taste, and there the guitar is the minor problem.


This. Some electric guitar covers are kinda cute, but the people trying to write "neoclassical metal" these days are butchering the stuff to no end.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

That was truly wretched.



apricissimus said:


> No thanks.
> 
> I have a hard time seeing an electric guitar as an "orchestral" instrument in general. I think it would too easily overpower the rest of the orchestra. (But perhaps I'm biased. After a lifetime of being inundated with guitar-based music, I'm sick of it.)


Overpowering shouldn't be an issue as volume is readily and finely controlled. An orchestral instrument? No. But solo concertos could work very well.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I think most of it is juvenile at worst, kind of silly at best. Nothing wrong with silly. But sometimes it does work well. Ian Anderson's jazzy setting of Bach's Bourree from one of the lute suites is timeless! Of interest to me too are oddities that go the other direction. I once heard a number of Black Sabbath songs transcribed to "Gregorian" chant. Since they are mostly modal to begin with, it worked amazingly well. Usually hard rock pieces in an orchestral setting though are wretched. An orchestra simply cannot rock.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Richard Barrett: Dark Matter*



EdwardBast said:


> That was truly wretched.
> 
> Overpowering shouldn't be an issue as volume is readily and finely controlled. An orchestral instrument? No. But solo concertos could work very well.


Have a listen to this and tell me that the electric guitar cannot or shouldn't be used as an orchestral instrument...

View attachment 37492


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Weston said:


> An orchestra simply cannot rock.


Do you mean to say that an orchestra cannot convey ferocity and/or power? You must be joking.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

apricissimus said:


> No thanks.
> 
> I have a hard time seeing an electric guitar as an "orchestral" instrument in general. I think it would too easily overpower the rest of the orchestra. (But perhaps I'm biased. After a lifetime of being inundated with guitar-based music, I'm sick of it.)


I agree with this completely. I'm so sick of the guitar as an instrument that I actively try to avoid it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Uninteresting in the extreme.

1.) I don't, generally, care for transcriptions.

2.) I have a basic dislike for the timbre(s) of the electric guitar, just as some find the flute annoying, regardless of any general consensus as to how beautiful that sound is.

I would -- maybe -- be more interested in original contemporary classical pieces written directly for the instrument.

ADD: Now that I've read many of these renderings are _stylized ala rock,_ my lack of interest is that much more extreme


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I love it when done well. The guitar is an awesome instrument.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Do you mean to say that an orchestra cannot convey ferocity and/or power? You must be joking.


Funny. I was just listening to the Beethoven's 3rd the other night and this morning too, and a little thought happened to occur to me: was it the first time that the music actually rocked?


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> I love it when done well. The guitar is an awesome instrument.


I love guitar too, even with less reservations.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

I find the idea tacky. Attempts to "rock-ify" classical music always sound silly and over-the-top.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd rather hear classical arrangements of metal/rock, like the String Quartet version of Nine Inch Nails and that series.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

millionrainbows said:


> I'd rather hear classical arrangements of metal/rock, like the String Quartet version of Nine Inch Nails and that series.


Unfortunately, I don't think classical arrangements would elevate Reznor's video-game sound effects to something that they are not; worthwhile music. If that seems harsh, it's only because I was big NIN fan in my teens and now, as an adult, I must bear the shame of my teenage transgressions. Woe is me.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Do you mean to say that an orchestra cannot convey ferocity and/or power? You must be joking.


I find rock music can have a certain expressive timing that does not translate well to 80 musicians and a conductor. They often seem to have trouble finding the groove. I admit this might be more a clash of cultures than a physical impossibility.


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## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

Just yesterday, I watched Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem performing Chopin. At least it had the virtue of not taking itself seriously. 

I've heard both attempts to "rock" the classics (Joe Walsh doing Ravel's "Bolero" comes to mind) and classic-ize (okay, bad word) rock ala Kronos's "Purple Haze." I found them and similar efforts somewhat novel but essentially unconvincing. I wonder the genres are simply too different to be compatible.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Weston said:


> I find rock music can have a certain expressive timing that does not translate well to 80 musicians and a conductor. They often seem to have trouble finding the groove. I admit this might be more a clash of cultures than a physical impossibility.


Have you listened to Penderecki's "Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima", Messiaen's "Saint François d'Assise", Nono's "Al gran sole carico d'amore" or Stravinsky's "Le Sacre du printemps"? These are but a few among many examples of that certain 'expressive timing' and 'groove' you speak of. Hell, even if they aren't, Rock music as a genre cannot compete with the said pieces' expressive power (among other things). If that doesn't do it for you, try the violin concertos of Beethoven, Bartók or Shostakovich. And let's not forget Xenakis!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

SilenceIsGolden said:


> I find the idea tacky. Attempts to "rock-ify" classical music always sound silly and over-the-top.


True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. It's a silly genre and it's few gems are those that don't wallow in pretence.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. It's a silly genre and it's few gems are those that didn't wallow in pretence.


Those be fighting words.  Rock music has a ton of variety. It's not silly to want an adrenaline rush. A genre that pumps you up with excitement. Especially when drinking. But yes there are quite a few silly bands. Don't blame the genre though. It just offers for extremes. From Pink Floyd style to Cannibal Corpse. lol


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I always think it's interesting when rock music is influenced by classical. Rock arrangements of classical pieces are not my thing, but props to the musicians for doing that. What I find interesting are elaborate guitar solos that are clearly based on the toccata and fugue format of Bach's organ pieces.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

neoshredder said:


> Those be fighting words.  Rock music has a ton of variety. It's not silly to want an adrenaline rush. A genre that pumps you up with excitement. Especially when drinking. But yes there are quite a few silly bands. Don't blame the genre though. It just offers for extremes. From Pink Floyd style to Cannibal Corpse. lol


I do have a soft spot for "The Pogues". "Dirty Old Town" never gets old.


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## FleshRobot (Jan 27, 2014)

jasn said:


> with the evolution of the guitar and the incursion of african rythms in music and the facility to obtain sheets of classical music, has made that a lot of people are doing covers of classical music pieces in rock/metal style, what do you think about them? do you like them? do you hate it?


Some of them I like, some I dislike. I only started to listen to classical music because of the rock arrengements of classical pieces by bands such as ELP, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Procol Harum, among others.



jasn said:


> do you think is better to play them in a purism way?


Yes, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy non-puristic* renditions.

* not sure if that's grammatically acceptable.



jasn said:


> do you think electric guitar can be some day an orchestral instrument?


It already is. Stockhausen and Henze used electric guitars in orchestras. Crumb also scored some of his compositions for eletric guitars.


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## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

Whistler Fred said:


> Just yesterday, I watched Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem performing Chopin. At least it had the virtue of not taking itself seriously.
> 
> I've heard both attempts to "rock" the classics (Joe Walsh doing Ravel's "Bolero" comes to mind) and classic-ize (okay, bad word) rock ala Kronos's "Purple Haze." I found them and similar efforts somewhat novel but essentially unconvincing. I wonder the genres are simply too different to be compatible.


At the risk of self-contradiction, I have to point out one general exception to this are some rock renditions of I've encountered of Renaissance tunes. I'm thinking specifically of Jethro Tull's "King Henry Madrigal" after "Pastime With Good Company" but there are others I recall hearing (it might have been "Blackmore's Night"). And, of course, there's Simon and Garfunkel's "Scarborough Faire" although this is really folk rather than rock.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I also enjoy the musical stylings of these primitive sonic terrorists. There's an electric guitar in there somewhere and it is played horribly (but in a good way).


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. It's a silly genre and it's few gems are those that don't wallow in pretence.


Yes, it's music for angsty hormonal teenagers. Why it's taken seriously by anyone over 21 I don't know.
GG


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

GraemeG said:


> Yes, it's music for angsty hormonal teenagers. Why it's taken seriously by anyone over 21 I don't know.
> GG


And Classical Music is for old and stuffy people. Sorry these stereotypes are useless to me. I like both styles. Though yes when I'm in a mood for creativity, Classical Music tends to me choice. When I'm in a mood to have a good time, Rock usually is my choice. But there are exceptions to even those thoughts.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. It's a silly genre and it's few gems are those that don't wallow in pretence.


Have you listened to Pink Floyd? They were quite serious about their craft, and most excellent.



GraemeG said:


> Yes, it's music for angsty hormonal teenagers. Why it's taken seriously by anyone over 21 I don't know.
> GG


Why anyone would take this post too seriously is beyond me. Claustrophobic views aren't usually attractive to mature minds. Just because your body is old doesn't necessarily imply that you've picked up wisdom. It's all good. The spice of life, eh!
:tiphat:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. *It's a silly genre* and it's few gems are those that don't wallow in pretence.


Whoo, boy! I bet that has the hair up on a good number of your readers. 
... but it is good for circulation numbers, I imagine


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> Have you listened to Pink Floyd? They were quite serious about their craft, and most excellent


I have and they lulled me to sleep. I found the band, "CAN" a tad more interesting.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> I have and they lulled me to sleep. I found the band, "CAN" a tad more interesting.


Yeah I would think they would fit in more Beethoven. You prefer more modern music.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> I have and they lulled me to sleep. I found the band, "CAN" a tad more interesting.


Nothing wrong with this view. It's the bloated opinions downing entire genres of music that I find ridiculous.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

By the way, I'm not too crazy about Metal/Rock arrangements of Classical music… Like trying to mate a Lion and a Wildebeest. I also find Classical arrangements of Rock/Pop music to be equally unappealing.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> Nothing wrong with this view. It's the bloated opinions downing entire genres of music that I find ridiculous.


Rock _is_ ridiculous. That's part of its charm. If I want to listen to something that will stimulate mind and heart, I'll go elsewhere. But that's just me. :tiphat:


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

You can say many Classical artists are ridiculous, as well. It's all quite ridiculous if you can be honest with yourself…. Though I find it all rather lovely.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2014)

There are certainly classical composers who are more ridiculous than a massive number of rock bands. But hey, who doesn't love a good sweeping statement these days.



Ya know, I never thought I'd feel tempted to use the ignore function on this forum of all places. Nevertheless, glad for the general level-headedness of the place


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> You can say many Classical artists are ridiculous, as well. It's all quite ridiculous if you can be honest with yourself…. Though I find it all rather lovely.


Like who? Phillip Glass? Can't argue with you there.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Like who? Phillip Glass? Can't argue with you there.


Satie perhaps...really even Mozart or Haydn were more often silly than a vast amount of good rock.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Like who? Phillip Glass? Can't argue with you there.


The extreme peppy/poppyness of Baroque. The ultra-formalities of Classical. The soaking wet emotion of the Romantics. The overdose of intellectual tinkering of Modern Avante-Garde. Tell me what's not ridiculous.

But as I said, I think they're all lovely.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2014)

Basically Lope, I think you're judging all rock based on things like '50s/'60s rock n' roll, '70s/'80s arena rock, and so on. Rock evolved from some silly roots, just like classical evolved from some particular roots. So if you don't want people to dismiss composers like, say, Stockhausen, don't deny the "evolved" rock bands that have separated themselves from silliness, either 

Edit: Granted, I love The Cure of all things so I'm obviously down for some silliness too


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

They Cure is pretty sweet… and silly as hell.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Satie perhaps...really even Mozart or Haydn were more often silly than a vast amount of good rock.


I'll take Mozart's 'silliness' over that 'vast amount of good rock' you speak of.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Ya know, I never thought I'd feel tempted to use the ignore function on this forum of all places.


I know EXACTLY what you mean.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Basically Lope, I think you're judging all rock based on things like '50s/'60s rock n' roll, '70s/'80s arena rock, and so on. Rock evolved from some silly roots, just like classical evolved from some particular roots. So if you don't want people to dismiss composers like, say, Stockhausen, don't deny the "evolved" rock bands that have separated themselves from silliness, either
> 
> Edit: Granted, I love The Cure of all things so I'm obviously down for some silliness too


*Dismiss as you like.*

_"... don't deny the "evolved" rock bands that have separated themselves from silliness, either "_

*Thanks for the laugh.*


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

It appears we're getting nowhere with you. That's fine. Enjoy your cage. :tiphat:


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> It appears we're getting nowhere with you. That's fine. Enjoy your cage. :tiphat:


Thanks for the lovely wishes. Where were 'we' going? :tiphat:


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

What are some examples of "evolved" rock bands?


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

apricissimus said:


> What are some examples of "evolved" rock bands?


That is exactly that I wanted to suggest. Meaning actual samples of music to discuss.

But to answer your question, probably the likes of ELP.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Thanks for the lovely wishes. Where were 'we' going? :tiphat:





apricissimus said:


> What are some examples of "evolved" rock bands?


As I've said before. I think Pink Floyd is mightily evolved. King Crimson is also pretty cool. I really dig May Blitz. Black Widow did some really tasteful stuff after their Satanic days….

Of course, my opinion. And if you're asking just to be sly then this will never be a fruitful conversation.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't see what Pink Floyd has to do with modern composition or classical music. And the metal guitar god with orchestra I find rather shallow. I'm more interested in progressive rock bands that compose and perform their own unique brand of sophisticated composition or chamber rock. But one good example of a well integrated electric guitar/orchestra project is Mike Keneally's The Universe Will Provide.

As for the chamber rock thing, there are a lot of these bands going back to the 70s, most notably Henry Cow. And many others including Univers Zero, Present, Rational Diet, Hamster Theater, Yugen, etc. And English Canterbury bands like Egg, and National Health. But these are mostly avant garde.

For something more traditional I'd suggest the English band, Gryphon. Or perhaps Gentle Giant.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Deep Purple had some kind of performance with a symphonic orchestra, I believe. It was OK.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

How about the Dixie Dregs? They don't need an orchestra.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

I don't know, all of that is pretty much typical prog-rock, if you ask me. And rather anemic at that.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Wow! Just five minutes of listening, and you've formed your smug opinion. Bravo!


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

I've heard a lot of that stuff before, if that matters. Am I wrong?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Thanks for the lovely wishes. Where were 'we' going? :tiphat:


To the wonderful world of rock music.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> *I don't see what Pink Floyd has to do with modern composition or classical music. *And the metal guitar god with orchestra I find rather shallow. I'm more interested in progressive rock bands that compose and perform their own unique brand of sophisticated composition or chamber rock. But one good example of a well integrated electric guitar/orchestra project is Mike Keneally's The Universe Will Provide.
> 
> As for the chamber rock thing, there are a lot of these bands going back to the 70s, most notably Henry Cow. And many others including Univers Zero, Present, Rational Diet, Hamster Theater, Yugen, etc. And English Canterbury bands like Egg, and National Health. But these are mostly avant garde.
> 
> For something more traditional I'd suggest the English band, Gryphon. Or perhaps Gentle Giant.


Well, they have a ton to do with it. I don't feel like doing a comparative essay on it though. But I like the rest of your post.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Serge said:


> I've heard a lot of that stuff before, if that matters. Am I wrong?


Nah, it's your opinion. Neither wrong nor right. But dismissive and smug attitudes will normally lead to confrontation. It seems I'll have to repeat myself again… To dismiss an entire genre of music as ridiculous is ridiculous. Moreover, Classical music can also be very silly, and if you can't acknowledge that then you're not someone to have a rational conversation with.

Cheers.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Zevious.
Early Neubauten.
Soundtracks for the blind by Swans.
Aphrodite's Child: 666.
Early Can
Early Neu
Early Pere Ubu
Beefheart: trout mask replica

* I don't know how 'evolved' these examples are but they are enjoyable enough. Don't expect anything too sophisticated though.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

apricissimus said:


> What are some examples of "evolved" rock bands?


How about these?

A very small sampling of the more avant-garde bands:

Universe Zero






U Totem






Hoyry-Kone






miRthkon


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2014)

apricissimus said:


> What are some examples of "evolved" rock bands?


With a few exceptions here and there, bands like Swans and Godspeed You! Black Emperor are pretty far removed from the "silly" stereotype of popular rock, among hundreds (or thousands) more.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> True. But we must remember that Rock music was never meant to be taken seriously. It's a silly genre and it's few gems are those that don't wallow in pretence.


Then no music is meant to be taken seriously.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Then no music is meant to be taken seriously.


Ultimately, that could be the truth though: it's not a commodity.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Serge said:


> I've heard a lot of that stuff before, if that matters. Am I wrong?


I just don't see how you can write off the Dregs as "typical prog rock". First of all, nothing was typical back then. It was all knew. And Steve Morse's compositions are of a very high quality, with beautiful melodies and arrangements. And the Dregs had a unique sound that you can recognize instantly.

Anyway, I find it a lot more satisfying than rock band with tacked on pedestrian string arrangements.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Vesuvius said:


> Well, they have a ton to do with it. I don't feel like doing a comparative essay on it though. But I like the rest of your post.


No one's asking for an essay, but how about some examples?


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

starthrower said:


> I just don't see how you can write off the Dregs as "typical prog rock". First of all, nothing was typical back then. It was all knew. And Steve Morse's compositions are of a very high quality, with beautiful melodies and arrangements. And the Dregs had a unique sound that you can recognize instantly.
> 
> Anyway, I find it a lot more satisfying than rock band with tacked on pedestrian string arrangements.


Typical, in a sense that this band didn't strike me as anything standing out. Meaning, there were plenty of prog rock groups sounding exactly like that. But prog rock itself is a very diverse genre, or course. So I didn't mean to say that it all sounds the same to me. Where their place in history is, I don't know - I just don't have that encyclopedic kind of memory - but the music itself is nothing to write home about, if you ask me. Sorry, if that offends you. In fact, they might be leaning towards jazz fusion, in my opinion. At least, when re-listening to the second composition, "Return to Forever" popped up into my mind. Not a big fan either.

But I do still love and used to love much of the prog rock. Both Pink Floyd and Can mentioned in this thread would be examples of the former. And the genre itself was one of my gateways to classical.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I just don't see how you can write off the Dregs as "typical prog rock". First of all, nothing was typical back then. It was all knew. And Steve Morse's compositions are of a very high quality, with beautiful melodies and arrangements. And the Dregs had a unique sound that you can recognize instantly.
> 
> Anyway, I find it a lot more satisfying than rock band with tacked on pedestrian string arrangements.


well, they're entire approach is surely Avante-Garde. They dealt with sounds in a very textural way, expressing vaster energies of life rather than focusing simply on melody and rock/pop structure. I don't know what kind of convincing you're looking for, but they're related.

It's a bit bewildering that you don't see this, and you're a big fan of prog-rock.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Serge said:


> Typical, in a sense that this band didn't strike me as anything standing out. Meaning, there were plenty of prog rock groups sounding exactly like that.


In reality, there weren't. Most of the 70s prog bands were English. The Dregs had a decidedly American sound, with country and classical influences and just a touch of jazz, mainly coming from the keyboard players. They also had a healthy dose of funk and humor that you don't hear in most prog bands. And the way Steve Morse arranged the music is quite a bit different from other bands. His guitar playing is also vastly different than most other players. It's much more rhythmically complex and stylistically diverse.

The composition Ice Cakes incorporates all of the diverse influences including funk/rock, rhythmic complexity, and symphonic melody lines.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

starthrower said:


> In reality, there weren't. Most of the 70s prog bands were English. The Dregs had a decidedly American sound, with country and classical influences and just a touch of jazz, mainly coming from the keyboard players. They also had a healthy dose of funk and humor that you don't hear in most prog bands. And the way Steve Morse arranged the music is quite a bit different from other bands. His guitar playing is also vastly different than most other players. It's much more rhythmically complex and stylistically diverse.


What do you think of this, starthrower...


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Zevious.
> Early Neubauten.
> Soundtracks for the blind by Swans.
> Aphrodite's Child: 666.
> ...


In what way is Can or Captain Beefheart any less silly than, say, Slowdive or Joy Division? I don't understand.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2014)

Piwikiwi said:


> I agree with this completely. I'm so sick of the guitar as an instrument that I actively try to avoid it.


Even classical guitar?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> What do you think of this, starthrower...


There's a lot of this stuff on the Cuneiform label. For me, it's only good for a few listens. I prefer music with more colors, timbres, and lyricism. And a little breathing room.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Schubussy said:


> In what way is Can or Captain Beefheart any less silly than, say, Slowdive or Joy Division? I don't understand.


I don't understand the origin of your question. Can or Beefheart are just as silly as Slowdive or Joy Division. I suppose it all depends on what ones definition of 'silly' actually is.

The following has nothing to do with your post, Schubussy: It's amazing how in this age of unabashed selfishness we've become so spoiled and egoistic that there is no such thing as 'Truth' anymore; everyone has their own, personal version of the truth. And in case anyone responds to this, yes, I recognize the irony. No one is immune.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> I don't understand the origin of your question. Can or Beefheart are just as silly as Slowdive or Joy Division. I suppose it all depends on what ones definition of 'silly' actually is.
> 
> The following has nothing to do with your post, Schubussy: *It's amazing how in this age of unabashed selfishness we've become so spoiled and egoistic that there is no such thing as 'Truth' anymore; everyone has their own, personal version of the truth. And in case anyone responds to this, yes, I recognize the irony. No one is immune.*


Haha, yea it seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy... and we're all scrambling around the walls of the labyrinth.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

starthrower said:


> There's a lot of this stuff on the Cuneiform label. For me, it's only good for a few listens. I prefer music with more colors, timbres, and lyricism. And a little breathing room.


Really? I quite like them. I am not a fan of much else on that label. I think Zevious' lead guitarist is a good composer. In any case, I recognize that Steve Morse is talented but I don't much care for the color, timbre, and lyricism of his music. I don't feel anything while listening to his work. It's a bit like reading an instructional manual. Anyway, It's my opinion.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Here's my favorite 3 minute prog composition. Very eccentric, and inspired by looking at a painting.


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## Gilberto (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm sure I've heard rock adaptations that suited me but I can't think of what they were other than.... very few.

I studied guitar in the 70s and 80s and enjoyed playing in duets and small ensembles. The one thing I just abhor is a guitar concerto. The guitar is too weak....no volume or ability to sustain with an orchestra. If someone has performed some of the standard guitar concertos using electric guitar then I'd love to hear it. Providing it isn't done by one of those flashy "tap and hammer" guitar gods whose every note screams "look at me, hear my technique!".


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Gilberto said:


> I'm sure I've heard rock adaptations that suited me but I can't think of what they were other than.... very few.
> 
> I studied guitar in the 70s and 80s and enjoyed playing in duets and small ensembles. The one thing I just abhor is a guitar concerto. The guitar is too weak....no volume or ability to sustain with an orchestra. If someone has performed some of the standard guitar concertos using electric guitar then I'd love to hear it. Providing it isn't done by one of those flashy "tap and hammer" guitar gods whose every note screams "look at me, hear my technique!".


Do you enjoy Segovia's work?


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Gilberto said:


> I'm sure I've heard rock adaptations that suited me but I can't think of what they were other than.... very few.
> 
> I studied guitar in the 70s and 80s and enjoyed playing in duets and small ensembles. The one thing I just abhor is a guitar concerto. The guitar is too weak....no volume or ability to sustain with an orchestra. If someone has performed some of the standard guitar concertos using electric guitar then I'd love to hear it. Providing it isn't done by one of those flashy "tap and hammer" guitar gods whose every note screams "look at me, hear my technique!".


I think the guitar can be used for much more textural implications than you're giving it credit for. The amount of effects that it can achieve… I'm surprised that more Modern Classical composers aren't using it. Maybe they're still stuck in a classical standard , as well. Not sure.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Vesuvius said:


> I think the guitar can be used for much more textural implications than you're giving it credit for. The amount of effects that it can achieve… I'm surprised that more Modern Classical composers aren't using it. Maybe they're still stuck in a classical standard , as well. Not sure.


Yes. Popular music can be very simple, but paradoxically the possibilities of the guitar have been explored much more by popular musicians (rock, jazz, folk, country, blues, even new age considering people like Michael Hedges) than classical composers, who usually used it like it's just a piano with much more limitations.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think the possobilites of using an electric guitar in a classical composition, in a classical style not a rock style, would be interesting. I would try it out but I don't really know how to write for that instrument.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Vesuvius said:


> I think the guitar can be used for much more textural implications than you're giving it credit for. The amount of effects that it can achieve… I'm surprised that more Modern Classical composers aren't using it. Maybe they're still stuck in a classical standard , as well. Not sure.


Norwegian guitarist Terje Rypdal is a good example.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

These are cool contemporary pieces featuring a distorted electric guitar:

Ken Ueno - ...blood blossoms... (violadude mentioned this piece some time ago; I really like it)

Tristan Murail - Vampyr!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Blood Blossoms is an interesting chamber work. The solo electric guitar piece is not my cuppa. I didn't find it very interesting or inventive.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Codex XI (2010) Richard Barrett*

This is an excerpt of a piece by one of the truly great composers of the 21st century, Richard Barrett. The electric guitar is played Daryl Buckley. Enjoy, gents.

FYI: For those simply interested in the guitar part, fast forward to 1:22.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

starthrower said:


> The solo electric guitar piece is not my cuppa. I didn't find it very interesting or inventive.


Yeah, I wouldn't say I'm a fan of the piece either...

------------------------------------------------

For the classical guitar:

Babbitt - Composition for Guitar

Takemitsu - Toward the sea

Carter - Changes


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## OldFashionedGirl (Jul 21, 2013)

No. No like it. I sounds so out place.

Hey! How about to rocking with Beethoven and Bach?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

OldFashionedGirl said:


> Hey! How about to rocking with Beethoven and Bach?


Interesting. It's akin to tracing the painting, 'Christ Crucified' (Diego Velázquez) with a magic marker.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yngwie including Adagio in his Icarus Dream Suite. 



Patrick Rondat's Vivaldi Tribute.


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## Sofronitsky (Jun 12, 2011)

What do I think of them? NOTMUCH :tiphat:


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## Gilberto (Sep 12, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Do you enjoy Segovia's work?


Not much actually. I'll give him credit for his efforts to bring the instrument as a respectable instrument at the time. But listening to his recordings doesn't move me much. Many great guitarists came after, i.e. Julian Bream. I enjoy Bream very much. To me, interpretation and fluidity seems more "moving" to me than Segovia.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

aleazk said:


> These are cool contemporary pieces featuring a distorted electric guitar:
> 
> Ken Ueno - ...blood blossoms... (violadude mentioned this piece some time ago; I really like it)


interesting, at least it's a piece where the composer is using the electric guitar as an electric guitar


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Gilberto said:


> Not much actually. I'll give him credit for his efforts to bring the instrument as a respectable instrument at the time. But listening to his recordings doesn't move me much. Many great guitarists came after, i.e. Julian Bream. I enjoy Bream very much. To me, interpretation and fluidity seems more "moving" to me than Segovia.


I'll have to look him up.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Really? I quite like them. I am not a fan of much else on that label. I think Zevious' lead guitarist is a good composer. In any case, I recognize that Steve Morse is talented but I don't much care for the color, timbre, and lyricism of his music. I don't feel anything while listening to his work. It's a bit like reading an instructional manual. Anyway, It's my opinion.


Hey, we all have our different tastes. Cuneiform has a fairly extensive catalog. Actually, that tune by Zevious sounds like what has been labeled Math Rock. I don't really like the term, but the first music of that type that I heard was by an old band called Crazy Backwards Alphabet. Ironically, the bass player was Andy West from the Dregs.

I understand your criticism of Steve Morse. The music is very clean and note perfect. I just happen to enjoy his melodies. But it's only one type of music. Outside of classical music and progressive rock, I enjoy a lot of chance taking improvisational music.

I'm surprised you haven't found anything else to enjoy on the Cuneiform label. They have tons of stuff spanning a 35 year period.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Here's one I've always liked. A comical operetta of sorts for a two guitar quartet featuring veterans John French of the Magic Band, Fred Frith of Henry Cow, Richard Thompson and Henry Kaiser on guitars.


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

The last one was pretty cool. I liked the sound and the production. I don't know if would "get" into it if I had a full-length album, but I would listen to it a few times for sure.

I also kinda liked the Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata performance and interpretation. Quite groovy I thought. Would anybody care to comment on the percussions in that piece please, I would really like to hear some opinions of those better qualified than myself on that subject.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The French Frith Kaiser & Thompson albums are good fun featuring offbeat vocal numbers, and some interesting instrumentals.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Serge said:


> I also kinda liked the Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata performance and interpretation. Quite groovy I thought. Would anybody care to comment on the percussions in that piece please, I would really like to hear some opinions of those better qualified than myself on that subject.


I don't know what qualified means but to me it was absolutely horrible. That distortion, and that awful drum part are completely out of place. This one for a bass guitar is at least more respectul


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

starthrower said:


> The French Frith Kaiser & Thompson albums are good fun featuring offbeat vocal numbers, and some interesting instrumentals.


Speaking of which: The Mighty *Magma*!






Wow, nearly forgot about them! One of prog rock favorites.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^
Freaky Frenchmen! Their CDs are so damn expensive. I haven't been able to cough up 35 dollars for one.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2014)

This is one of the most egregious performances that I have ever heard....






The guitarist is from Megadeth.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

That Megadeth performance is nearly sacrilegious.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Now I think they should go their separate ways. The more electricity you add to the guitar the less appealing it becomes for classic music.
Actually a fusion shouldn't have wilder electric guitar than what we once had in 1950-1965. It will be ear-bleeding if it the guitar is louder.

I still don't know the words for the Electric Guitar customizations...


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Haha, I think it would be much better for everyone if that dude was playing an air guitar there. Totally ruined the anticipation, anyway.


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