# A Time For Sleep



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I've noticed a few mentions by fellow TCists about sleep difficulties. We all have them from time to time. If you can't sleep—or you managed to sleep—talk about it here to share suggestions and learn tips for getting a good sleep.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

It was forecast to be hotter than usual this year and it's already been a brutally hot year. While I love summer, the long days, the sunshine and the heat, I dread the sleep deprivation from an unbearably hot room. As a consequence, I have pretty much decided to get a heat pump or air conditioner as soon as the money materializes.

Surprisingly, I have managed to sleep passably well  despite the heat. I'm not sure what I changed from previous years, but one thing is keeping an oscillating fan near my bed. I don't want to catch a draft, so I have it set to a lower speed and aimed over my bed, rather than at my body. I still wake up in a puddle of sweat, but I've managed an average of 6½ hours of sleep a night, mostly pretty good quality deep sleep.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I don't sleep with particular ease. I'm a night owl who stays up to late and struggles to wake up in the morning, but that's probably because I like whatever I'm doing at night more than I like going to work.

That being said, I never read, watch TV or listen to music in bed. I don't lie in bed if I am not already tired. All I have to do is walk into the bathroom and I feel like I have to pee. Why can't it be the same for sleep and my bed?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Sometimes I am so beat that I can barely keep my eyes open, so I go straight to bed and can't fall asleep  I've noticed that staying up late is the worst for getting a good sleep. When I go to bed earlier, I sleep longer. When I go to bed late, I need to stay in bed for many, many more hours in order to get an equal amount of sleep, because I'm often awake for quite a few hours in the night. It can still be a good sleep, but I rarely have the luxury of staying in bed until 11 in the morning.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I have a fan in my bedroom, too - I can't handle humidity at all well especially when I'm tired so some recent nights have been made more tolerable by having the fan blowing for a couple of hours before I attempt to drift off. However, being something of a tight-wad I make sure I switch the fan off first. 

Also, I've jettisoned the duvet and now just cover myself with a single cotton sheet while lying on top of one of the same - lying on a duvet can make you boil up almost as much as if you are under it. In addition, I keep the curtains open just a little bit so that any fresh air coming through the open smaller window can move into the room but without letting in too much annoying light. 

Clothes-wise, the usual night-time apparel is replaced by an impromptu nightshirt in the form of one of my old oversized football jerseys - the material is largely of the breathable meshed variety which helps me to keep cool. I rarely sleep naked during the summer as I'm mildly paranoid about being bitten or stung by any bugs that might be lurking.

Air-con would be nice when it's really warm for extended periods but this is England I'm talking about - the nocturnal temperature can fluctuate quite a lot from one night to the next even when it's consistently warm during the day, so I would probably only need to use it on a few occasions which isn't really cost effective.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I guess that's something else I changed. I pretty much always sleep naked, except during the bitterest winter nights, but I used to feel naked :lol: sleeping naked without a covering, so I used to cover myself with a light cotton sheet, but this heat spell, I've managed to sleep best without any covering whatsoever. I have bug screens, so I don't get too many in my place.

I know that an air conditioner is costly, but we can have 30° days even into late September, so that's a 4-month span of possible sweltering nights. I'm going to have to price it, once money materializes  but I think a good sleep would be worth it.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Yep - definitely sounds like you could do with air-con more than me. I'm glad I live in a country where the temperatures are usually moderate even during winter - I have no problem at all sleeping on those sub-zero winter nights but what you have to go through during your average summer would be an absolute killer for me.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I have discovered melatonin. 4½ mg usually does the job.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I wear a sleep mask, or sometimes a cotton scarf tied round my eyes. Although my curtains don't let in much light, I am still sensitive, and I notice that on nights when my head is too alert to relax, it's often a full moon. Recent research shows that even with eyes shut, we still get 20% of the light available. 

As for ways of drifting off - getting into that stage where the thoughts become bizarre and unconnected - on a bad night, nothing works. But sometimes one of these methods does:
1. Picture a scene - often something with white in it, such as 'The Highlands in snow', is easiest to visualise. Or else pastel colours, moving through the rainbow - pink, pale apricot, primrose yellow, pale green, sky blue, palest indigo, mauve; I imagine a bedroom or lounge with soft furnishings in the pastel shades, going through them in turn. 
2. Count backwards from a high number - 856, for example, timing the mental countings with each breath. 
3. If you know a poem by heart, rehearse it through in your mind - now try it again, repeating each line twice - now again, repeating each line thrice...
4. If I have worries, it sometimes helps to pretend I'm somebody completely different. I imagine I'm a widow in Imperial China who keeps an inn and is a resourceful character with one son and never worries about anything - she is destined to live to a great age too!


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Ah, insomnia. I'm not sure how else to describe what I have other than...preparation anxiety? If the next day is gonna be something big, or unique compared to the typical pattern, I toss and turn. And I'll probably wake up an hour before I have to with butterflies in my stomach. Problems with being a creature of habit I guess.

My sleep cycle is easily malleable, so while I used to be a night owl, I've recently become a morning person thanks to my job [which I think is a good thing because I get to see the early morning sun]. But getting to sleep, I have an odd set of musts in order to be comfortable:
- It needs to be cool in the room, with one or two fans on. The fan has to be pointed toward my head, and it can't be too loud, but needs to provide white noise
- I need two blankets: a thin one and a thick one, the thick one goes on top
- I used to sleep naked, but now I sleep in my underwear out of paranoia that I'll be shaken awake and out of the house in the middle of the night [really silly but I don't care haha]

Some Tips:
- Sleep in a cool room if you can. If it's the middle of the summer and it's ungodly hot, pause and go to the bathroom and you can either 1) soak a small towel in cold water and drape it around the back of your neck, or 2) hold your wrists under cold running water for no more than 1 minute. Both will help cool down your body temperature
- After 5pm, don't drink coffee, soda, anything too sugary or caffeinated. Tea is fine, especially of the herbal variety. Drinking water is fine for me, though I drink glasses of water constantly throughout the day
- Don't read or listen to music right before bed. This might just be me saying this, because I've seen "insomnia treatments" lists that included these two. The reason I'm against them is that, if anything, reading a good book or listening to music wakes up your brain, rather than lulling it to sleep.
- Stay off electronics at least 30min before bed. Not only could the eye strain give you a gross headache, but I think I read somewhere that the blue pigments of the screen are close to the pigmants of the early morning sky, triggering brain to think it's morning therefore causing it to release "WAKE UP" chemicals
- Find a source of white noise if you can't handle a room that's too quiet [like me]. You can use a fan, you can change the TV or radio to a fuzzy station, you could get one of those cd's that's just rainfall or fireplace crackles or other ambient sounds
- When in bed, find ways to get as comfortable as possible: do you lay on your back, side, or belly? Try stripping off layers of clothes to see what's best. No joke, try out your birthday suit
- If you have an active mind, try some "mindful meditation" keep quit, only focus on your breathing and the sounds around you. The longer you put your attention to your surroundings, the more nuances you'll begin to notice in the soundscape. This usually lulls me to sleep


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I have used melatonin. I don't use it nightly (I've never tried a higher strength than 3 mg and my current ones are 1 mg timed release), because I don't get the same very favourable results from it for more than a day, at best two, in succession. When my sleep disturbance is not externally caused—excessive heat, noise, etc.—melatonin has been a useful aid.

Yes, Ingélou, I also use a sleep mask. What I use is a headband style fleece ear warmer, because I find that the elastics on the sleep mask cut painfully into the tops of my ears and the mask never stays in place. The ear warmer is excellent, although it can be a bit warm.

Luckily, I rarely have trouble drifting off to sleep. Sometimes, however, I wake up in the middle of the night (washroom break) and it's then that I might experience difficulties drifting off again. Usually, I just persevere, but occasionally that doesn't help. That's when I get up, read a book, listen to music, eat something, even go for a walk and try again. If it's a weekend and I can sleep in, then all is well, but the loss of all those sleep hours on a weekday is taxing.

Cosmos, those are great ideas for reducing one's body temperature. I never thought of that! Having a shower has worked for me, but it's not practical to have one every half hour on a hot summer night  I used to use the white noise suggestions, unsuccessfully; what worked was to move my bed into the living room (my bedroom was on a high traffic street and is now the dining room), so my place is now more like a bachelor pad, with a dining room.

In my teens, I used to occasionally wear a pyjama, but I would awaken in the night, barely able to breathe, because it was wrapped so tightly around my torso, like a constrictor's grip. Even as a child, I used to take the pyjama off at night and hide it under the covers so my mother wouldn't see that I had taken it off


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Exercise + Magnesium = Sleep


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> 4. If I have worries, it sometimes helps to pretend I'm somebody completely different. I imagine I'm a widow in Imperial China who keeps an inn and is a resourceful character with one son and never worries about anything - she is destined to live to a great age too!


:lol::lol::lol:


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


Pretending to be dead helps too.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Morimur said:


> Exercise + Magnesium = Sleep


I don't know anything about magnesium, except that too much can make one urgently need to have a washroom break :lol:

Exercise has been very helpful with sleep, too. I have noticed that on days I am physically idle, I am often restless at night, while on days of significant physical exercise, I often sleep very well.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

There are a number of guided meditations on YouTube (search "guided meditation sleep") that were very helpful to me when I was having difficulty sleeping last year. Most of the time, I was out before they ended, but even if not, they help to slow the breathing, quiet the mind, etc. You might want to check it out.

It won't do much for the heat, however...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I usually have no problem getting to sleep, given the late hour I go to bed (typically 2 am). Its the getting up part that I have difficulty with. Ideally, I would like to get 8hrs sleep a night, but only average about 5.5-6.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> I don't know anything about magnesium, except that too much can make one urgently need to have a washroom break :lol:
> 
> Exercise has been very helpful with sleep, too. I have noticed that on days I am physically idle, I am often restless at night, while on days of significant physical exercise, I often sleep very well.


Magnesium can help stop cramps - a major cause of my waking up in the night, particularly after Scottish dancing, or after sitting immobile at a concert.

Exercise is good, but not too near bedtime as it wakes you up. Plus, hard exercise can occasionally make me 'too tired' & I just lie there aching, longing to go to sleep, but unable to get off.

Fascinating thread, btw! :tiphat:


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2015)

When I sleep badly it's because I'm stressed about certain issues. For me, sleep is the true barometer of my mental well-being. In general though, I resent the need for sleep as I find the days too short and as an atheist I want to complete as many "good works" as I can before total oblivion.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

As I age, I don't sleep as well as I used to. As a teen I've slept through an earthquake, a crashing hotel door room and multiple people coming and going in the room. Now sleep is more elusive, but I'm generally a pretty good sleeper.

I went on a six week camping tour 7 years ago, and it was the best sleep I had had since I was a teen. Up with the sun, to bed as the sun set. Outside fresh and clean air all the time. I think that might tell us that in this modern age, we've lost our diurnal patterns and perhaps this is why many have trouble sleeping. 

Now at home if I have trouble sleeping it helps to be cool. I sometimes have a shower immediately before bed. I sometimes take Advil. Clean sheets help too. Feather / down pillows help me, I can't sleep on anything else. And while reading is okay, I cannot read on my iPad, too much light. I don't have caffeine after midday. Fresh air helps me a lot too, in the room and time outdoors during the day.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Florestan said:


> I usually have no problem getting to sleep, given the late hour I go to bed (typically 2 am). Its the getting up part that I have difficulty with. Ideally, I would like to get 8hrs sleep a night, but only average about 5.5-6.


In my experience, getting to bed before midnight significantly lengthens one's sleep duration. Try an hour before midnight sometime. When I was younger, I could get to bed no matter when-it was often 8 in the morning after coffee after coffee all night long-and I'd sleep for 8 full hours every night. No longer  I can still stay up till then, but I'd be fortunate to get 3 or 4 hours of sleep. Nowadays, getting a great sleep involves employing strategy.



senza sordino said:


> I went on a six week camping tour 7 years ago, and it was the best sleep I had had since I was a teen. Up with the sun, to bed as the sun set. Outside fresh and clean air all the time. I think that might tell us that in this modern age, we've lost our diurnal patterns and perhaps this is why many have trouble sleeping.


A few years ago, I went on annual 2-week motorcycle trips, camping in a different town every night, hitting the hay with the setting of the sun and rising when the sun was high enough to make it uncomfortable in the tent. I agree that it was the best sleep I had had in years!


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I have sleep apnea and I use a Cpap machine every night, or for naps during the daytime.

I find the feeling of positive air flow relaxing to induce sleep and I have no trouble getting to REM sleep quickly. My unit also has a humidifier for those dry desert nights we have. It heats up distilled water and the air then flows over the water and draws moisture into the nostrils.

I am able to freely move from my back or onto my side with the apparatus on my head. I use the nose pillows since I cannot stand the full face mask.

I've only missed two nights without it in the last 10 years - one night while tent camping, and another with the flu, sitting up in a recliner chair unable to breathe through my nostrils. It goes with me on travel - since it is a 'medical device' it is allowed as carry on luggage.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Sleeping terribly due to my manic phase of my bipolar phase.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

brotagonist said:


> In my experience, getting to bed before midnight significantly lengthens one's sleep duration. Try an hour before midnight sometime. When I was younger, I could get to bed no matter when-it was often 8 in the morning after coffee after coffee all night long-and I'd sleep for 8 full hours every night. No longer  I can still stay up till then, but I'd be fortunate to get 3 or 4 hours of sleep. Nowadays, getting a great sleep involves employing strategy.


Yes, I have heard that you sleep better going to bed early, so Ben Franklin had the right idea (was it Ben?), saying "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."

As a teen I could pull all-nighters but then you would sleep from 6 am to 2 pm. I once pulled an all-nighter or a half-nighter and had to work at 7 am. I was a pump jockey (gas station attendant in the days of full service where they pump the fuel for you). The station was slow and I fell asleep standing up and almost fell over. I was not a coffee drinker, but there sat a pot and so I figured I had better do something and took half a cup--boom, I was wide awake. But now, being acclimated, it takes a much larger dose to get me going in the morning.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Something that helped me get over the stress of not getting back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night is the knowledge that segmented sleep was the natural way for people to sleep before the invention of reliable light sources, particularly electric ones. According to scant evidence (people throughout history have rigorously documented everything, but sleep habits), people retired soon after the setting of the sun, would get up in the night for a few hours, and retire once more. I found this knowledge very liberating (but not when I need to be fresh early the following morning ).


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

There's a weird time of the night, between one and three o'clock, where the body's at a low ebb and/or one wakes up to go the loo & the head starts thinking and stops one going back off again. But then, when it starts to get light, anxiety subsides and I can drift off again. Maybe also a legacy of the cave days?


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Something that helped me get over the stress of not getting back to sleep after waking in the middle of the night is the knowledge that segmented sleep was the natural way for people to sleep before the invention of reliable light sources, particularly electric ones. According to scant evidence (people throughout history have rigorously documented everything, but sleep habits), people retired soon after the setting of the sun, would get up in the night for a few hours, and retire once more. I found this knowledge very liberating (but not when I need to be fresh early the following morning ).


Yes, that concept of "first sleep" and "second sleep" is discussed in this 2012 article from the New York Times. Interesting ideas...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/rethinking-sleep.html?_r=0


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> There's a weird time of the night, between one and three o'clock, where... one wakes up to go the loo & the head starts thinking and stops one going back off again. But then, when it starts to get light, anxiety subsides and I can drift off again.


You're lucky! When I wake up and it's still dark, I mostly fall back asleep easily or I can take a break for a little while, but if it's already light, then I become so frantic to get those last few hours of needed sleep before the alarm goes off that I can't fall back asleep.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

My bladder wakes me up between 04.00 and 05.00 _without fail_. Sometimes earlier if I have drunk too much the night before.

I often find listening to music helps me get back to sleep.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

Ingélou said:


> There's a weird time of the night, between one and three o'clock, where the body's at a low ebb and/or one wakes up to go the loo & the head starts thinking and stops one going back off again. But then, when it starts to get light, anxiety subsides and I can drift off again. Maybe also a legacy of the cave days?


Tis all part of our cycle, it's called the circadian rhythm (translated as about a day). During this time the body temp decreases a little and blood pressure goes down, it is actually the most common time for people to die in their sleep (of natural causes of course and mainly old age). As the temp goes back up and blood pressure does also this can trigger a need to pee response.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Next time I have to get up in the middle of the night, I'll remember not to be pissed, since I'll know that I lived through that critical time :lol:


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I had a horribly foreshortened sleep last night. I woke up at 2 and then again at 5:30, when I finally decided to stay up. 5½ hours  I am KO.

I was rather thirsty at 2, but I didn't want to drink anything, for fear of having to get up later. I read somewhere that thirst/dehydration can adversely affect sleep. I need to get over my fear of drinking fluids in the evening/at night, because I think thirst is waking me up more often that the need to 'go'.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

^^

You have my sympathy. I woke up at 4.00am and couldn't get back to sleep.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Jul 21, 2013)

Nothing like a good doses of John Cage before sleep.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

.......................................................................... ?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Try reading Aristotle "Ethics". One page puts me asleep every time


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> I had a horribly foreshortened sleep last night. I woke up at 2 and then again at 5:30, when I finally decided to stay up. 5½ hours  I am KO.
> 
> I was rather thirsty at 2, but I didn't want to drink anything, for fear of having to get up later. I read somewhere that thirst/dehydration can adversely affect sleep. I need to get over my fear of drinking fluids in the evening/at night, because I think thirst is waking me up more often that the need to 'go'.


Sorry to hear of this. A poor night really ruins the quality of the next day.

I have various digestive problems, and extremely often I wake at about two not only needing to 'go' but also with a burning thirst. I drink up to a pint of water to assuage it. If I can't get back off, then I will need to 'go' a few more times, but that's largely psychological, because I don't pass much & if I do go to sleep again, I never wake up for the loo again. My body seems to need the water so just absorbs it - it doesn't pass through very fast.

So my advice would be to drink. If I get dehydrated, my digestive problem gets worse, and so does my sleep.


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## Potiphera (Mar 24, 2011)

I hate having to sleep, I'm a light sleeper anyway, and I never nap during the day.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> Sorry to hear of this. A poor night really ruins the quality of the next day.


The odd thing is: I took a drive in the country that day and went to a favourite spot where I had one of my best jogs of the past couple of months :tiphat: but I think I'm feeling it today 



Ingélou said:


> I have various digestive problems, and extremely often I wake at about two not only needing to 'go' but also with a burning thirst. I drink up to a pint of water to assuage it. If I can't get back off, then I will need to 'go' a few more times, but that's largely psychological, because I don't pass much & if I do go to sleep again, I never wake up for the loo again. My body seems to need the water so just absorbs it - it doesn't pass through very fast.


If you were a guy, I'd say that you need to use Saw Palmetto. No more problems with flow 



Ingélou said:


> So my advice would be to drink. If I get dehydrated, my digestive problem gets worse, and so does my sleep.


Yes, I am beginning to realize this. I seem to have a much higher requirement for fluid than I realized. Somewhere along the way, I seem to have unlearned recognition of the thirst urge  I don't become aware of how thirsty I am until I am dried out. It really is true: dehydration adversely affects sleep.


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## Grizzled Ghost (Jun 10, 2015)

My biggest issue is giving myself permission to go to sleep. I tend to hold on to wakefulness for dear life. 

What helps me, believe it or not, are these nicely-recorded audiobooks of the Sherlock Holmes stories that I found somewhere for free about a century ago. I look forward to starting one of those up, turning off the lights, and settling in for a nice listen. I've heard them all at least a dozen times, so there's really no need to concentrate on the story.

I usually don't make it to the end of the first track.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

That is verbatim what my sister said. It would keep me up all night :lol:


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## Grizzled Ghost (Jun 10, 2015)

^^^ Verbatim? Really? No way!!!

Sherlock Holmes? Is she single? Heck, she must be − what partner would put up with that?

I'm confused. I thought I was the only one. You must be pulling my leg. 

I'm in love!!! 

ut:


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

One year of college I managed not having air conditioning. How did I do it? During the hot weeks, I had a fan blowing air over my face each night, keeping the air circulation flowing. I always woke up refreshed, even though I might have felt a bit icky from the humidity in the room.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> ...I managed not having air conditioning. How did I do it? During the hot weeks, I had a fan blowing air over my face each night, keeping the air circulation flowing. I always woke up refreshed...


I find that the fan helps me a lot during this unusually and brutally hot, but wonderful, summer. I find that keeping the fan _from_ blowing at my face keeps my airways from getting dried out and _from_ blowing directly at my body keeps my muscles from catching a draft. I have aimed the fan at the corner of the room where my bed is placed, but above the level of the bed, so I catch the rebounded breeze without being subjected to the full-force gale


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

^^

I wish the "summer" we're having here was hot enough to warrant a fan, wherever aimed.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

When I was in college I tried drinking a hot cup of coffee just before going to bed. It took about a week before I figured out the flaw in that strategy.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I can sleep just fine if the conditions are met. But I can be pretty picky about those conditions. I have friends who can fall asleep on car rides, who can take a tap in the bright sunlight, who can sleep on a cold floor...I can't do any of those things. It needs to be dark, quiet, and I have to be able to move somewhat where I'm sleeping (a narrow couch isn't going to work too well). I sleep fine at home, but if I'm traveling with friends and I have to sleep in a bed with two other people and the room is 80 degrees and everyone's snoring around me...yeah, I'm probably not going to sleep a minute that night.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

tough part for me is that because I can't sleep I am always exhausted. 

Nothing worse than being tired, being forced to lay down but unable to sleep. 

The discomfort of the exhaustion can get so intense that it becomes painful and I'll actually moan.

THE OP asks, what helps? I have yet to find anything. 

I will not take medications for it. 

yawn :devil:


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

I sleep pretty soundly most nights, but have become prone to waking spontaneously before 7 even at the weekends.

Generally I only have trouble sleeping at nights when I'm abroad and it's too warm (above 10C I find uncomfortable, having been brought up used to Scottish nocturnal temperatures and living in northern England which is only a little warmer ).

I slept terribly when I was on peritoneal dialysis for 18 months - I don't recommend it other than for keeping-alive purposes. I amaze myself that I went back to work during that time, albeit I negotiated an 11 am start.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

There are lots of things you could do to try to get it under control, eljr, but I presume, by your post, that you have already tried 'everything'. We have a lot of tips and personal anecdotes here that you might peruse. Perhaps there is a little helpful something for you here?

While you don't want to take medications (I understand—and not long ago science announced that sleeping pills are carcinogenic), there is melatonin and traditional herbs (Valerian, St. John's Wort and others). These are not knock out pills, but, combined with an aware sleep regimen, they do make a noticeable improvement to the quality of my sleep :tiphat:


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> There are lots of things you could do to try to get it under control, eljr, but I presume, by your post, that you have already tried 'everything'. We have a lot of tips and personal anecdotes here that you might peruse. Perhaps there is a little helpful something for you here?
> 
> While you don't want to take medications (I understand-and not long ago science announced that sleeping pills are carcinogenic), there is melatonin and traditional herbs (Valerian, St. John's Wort and others). These are not knock out pills, but, combined with an aware sleep regimen, they do make a noticeable improvement to the quality of my sleep :tiphat:


the problem with supplements is that 75% of them here in NY are bogus.

Yes, 75% contain none of the desired compound.

Astonishing isn't it? Well it's unregulated so that's what happens.

Me knowing this even negates having any beneficial placebo effect.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

eljr said:


> the problem with supplements is that 75% of them here in NY are bogus.
> 
> Yes, 75% contain none of the desired compound.
> 
> ...


I am sceptical of that. There are many long-standing brands, such as Now Foods, New Chapter, Natural Factors, Nature's Way, Source Naturals, Flora and others that produce and grow their own herbs. I can't imagine what benefit it would be to sell a Valerian capsule that doesn't contain Valerian. I have bought the raw root and made tea: I know what it tastes like and the capsules I've used (I often like to let them dissolve in my mouth) taste and work exactly the same. I have bitten on a Saw Palmetto capsule and nearly vomited: I have used the whole berries and I know what they taste like and how they act on my prostate.

I looked up the article and it was specifically Walmart, GNC, Walgrens and Target that were mentioned. No doubt, they are buying cheap generic pills from overseas (China?) and are having their store brands put on them. This is a serious fraud and a potentially dangerous situation: I understand your concern.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I trust Boots the chemist in the UK. In the past I have bought a valerian-based tablet from their store that helped me to relax and then drift off. It tasted of sweaty socks, which I understand to be the true valerian flavour - not that I've ever tasted said socks, but I have smelled them in my time, not as a sought-after activity... :lol:

At present I am using a commercial tablet, but I only use half a tablet every few weeks if I'm particularly stressed. But it certainly works - this is the 'chemical' version, but the 'herbal' variant also worked well. 

I can understand that nobody wants to get hooked on pills, but if one becomes desperate for sleep, and the means is moderate and produced by a reputable firm, I think it's the only option, unless one has a personality to be easily addicted, which I don't. 

In times when I've had very little sleep, e.g. with super-loud tinnitus, I have felt appalling. I do hope that your situation improves, eljr. :tiphat:


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Tristan said:


> I sleep fine at home, but if I'm traveling with friends and I have to sleep in a bed with two other people ...yeah, I'm probably not going to sleep a minute that night.


I guess it would all depend on who the other two were? !:devil:

(Sorry to make light of your problems)


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

geralmar said:


> when i was in college i tried drinking a hot cup of coffee just before going to bed. It took about a week before i figured out the flaw in that strategy.


baaaaaahahahahaha!!!!


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> I trust Boots the chemist in the UK. In the past I have bought a valerian-based tablet from their store that helped me to relax and then drift off. It tasted of sweaty socks, which I understand to be the true valerian flavour - not that I've ever tasted said socks, but I have smelled them in my time, not as a sought-after activity... :lol:
> 
> At present I am using a commercial tablet, but I only use half a tablet every few weeks if I'm particularly stressed. But it certainly works - this is the 'chemical' version, but the 'herbal' variant also worked well.


Valerian has a pungent, heady aroma that I find very pleasant. It was used historically in perfumery  It is a strong cat attractant, as powerful as catnip  I don't like the smell of my socks, after walking around all day in the heat with closed shoes  Valerian doesn't smell at all like that.

A "chemical version" of valerian, as opposed to the powdered herb? I have tried the standardized extracts (usually standardized to contain a certain percentage of Valerenic acids), but they don't work as well on me, oddly. With other herbs, the standardized extracts seem to work much better for me. With valerian, I seem to get the best results from the powdered herb-and it is a Godsend for me.

I like the taste of the tea made of the roots, too. My great-grandmother used it all of the time, so I've been familiar with it since I was a child. I find that a little bit of honey mellows the flavour, such that it is quite becoming


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> Valerian has a pungent, heady aroma that I find very pleasant. It was used historically in perfumery  It is a strong cat attractant, as powerful as catnip  I don't like the smell of my socks, after walking around all day in the heat with closed shoes  Valerian doesn't smell at all like that...
> 
> *A "chemical version" of valerian, as opposed to the powdered herb?*


I think it was the genuine stuff; maybe I just have a different set of olfactory associations?***

But I think valerian tea is a good idea for calming people down (and therefore promoting sleep). Aren't they always drinking it in Chekhov plays?

** But I'm not alone in comparing valerian to socks, and worse:*
http://www.henriettes-herb.com/archives/best/1995/valerian.html


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