# Xmas Contest: Messiah- And Who May Abide The Day of His Coming. Simpson, Orlinski, Michael Chance



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

First of all I made a big boo boo. I assumed that since Von Otter was listed as the mezzo that she was the mezzo on this but Woodduck says it is not her.It is Michael Chance who I have to leave listed as Von Otter in the poll . It is too late to change it. These da** Youtube videos that just list the conductor and don't say who is singing. Whoever it is I thought they did a fine job. I heard Marietta Simpson for the first time singing this with the Robert Shaw Choral at work today. I was impressed and I had forgotten how much I loved this piece. I thought I needed to create a contest. We sang the Messiah at church with an orchestra every year at Xmas. I found some very different artists to be in the contest with her and ALL ARE RECENT ARTISTS which rarely happens here. Enjoy! I am including one of my favorite photos I took in the snow some years back.












Marietta Simpson -- But Who May Abide the Day of His Coming, From Handel's "Messiah," Robert Shaw conducting the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra 1987




Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir 22.12.2018 Jakup Josef Orlinski




Handel: Messiah, HWV 56 / Pt. 1 - VI. "But Who May Abide the Day of His Coming" · Michael Chance · The English Concert · Trevor Pinnock · George Frideric Handel


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm sorry, but countertenors will always bother me. It's particularly offensive when you have a cute boy like that open his mouth and sound like a girl. Like "bro! I thought you were hot before. Why you gotta do me like that?" 🤣


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'm sorry, but countertenors will always bother me. It's particularly offensive when you have a cute boy like that open his mouth and sound like a girl. Like "bro! I thought you were hot before. Why you gotta do me like that?" 🤣


I seriously beg to differ. He does NOT sound like a girl. He sounds like a boy alto on steroids. He has a much more masculine sound than the other countertenors. This is just my opinion but I know of others who have said the same about him. I could only dream of being that butch. Besides Andy Gibb and the BeeGees, Dimash and Roy Orbison all made millions using their high voice and no one questioned their masculinity about it that I ever heard. It is a natural part of a man's voice and has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity in my opinon.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I seriously beg to differ. He does NOT sound like a girl. He sounds like a boy alto on steroids. He has a much more masculine sound than the other countertenors. This is just my opinion but I know of others who have said the same about him. I could only dream of being that butch. Besides Andy Gibb and the BeeGees, Dimash and Roy Orbison all made millions using their high voice and no one questioned their masculinity about it that I ever heard.


That's even worse though. I don't want to be physically attracted to someone and then they sound like a boy 🤣


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> That's even worse though. I don't want to be physically attracted to someone and then they sound like a boy 🤣


Dimash sings from baritone to lyric coloratura soprano with huge E6s. I don't think anyone ever thinks he is girly for doing so. Perhaps you would. I sing in my high voice almost all the time if I sing in the car. I look in the mirror and I see a man. It is as valid a part of me as my low speaking voice.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Dimash sings from baritone to lyric coloratura soprano with huge E6s. I don't think anyone ever thinks he is girly for doing so. Perhaps you would. I sing in my high voice almost all the time if I sing in the car. I look in the mirror and I see a man. It is as valid a part of me as my low speaking voice.


tbh, my views on this topic would probably have been considered reasonable by my WII vet grandfather and his friends. I'm gonna just quit while I'm ahead. 

@OP
Van Otter has the most pleasant voice here, she gets my vote.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

What I don’t like about Orlinski in this video is the vibratoless sound he affects in the piece - I know some think this is the style, but I don’t like it.

Simpson has an impressive voice, but she tends to be rather rough.

Von Otter had a great recording career for a while but was dropped by some of her collaborators when she started aging. She‘s the one whose voice best floats my boat, but I like to look most at Jakub.

Edited: I voted for Von Otter, but it was not who I heard, but Michael Chance, as I read in other posts…


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> What I don’t like about Orlinski in this video is the vibratoless sound he affects in the piece - I know some thunk this is the style, but I don’t like it.
> Simpson has an impressive voice, but she tends to be rather rough.
> Von Otter had a great recording career for a while but was dropped by some of her collaborators when she started aging. She‘s the one whose voice best floats my boat, but I like to look most at Jakub.


Anna was very beautiful when she was young. Was it her looks or was it her voice aging that caused her to lose her singing opportunities. She didn't age well physically. Often mezzos come into their own after 40 vocally.
Orlinski does have a straighter sound for sure but it is not like a boy soprano but has narrow regular fluctuations in the tone. For one used to La Divina it would seem relatively without vibrato but it is there.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I don't object to countertenors. I merely dislike most of them. It's a mild dislike in most cases, but enough to put me off of listening to them. Orlinski sounds like some kind of siren - the warning signal, not the mermaid. It's a flat, keening hoot like the whistle of an organ pipe, mechanical and devoid of humanity (of either gender, for those hung up on that point). 

Of the humans, I prefer Simpson to the other countertenor, Michael Chance, who is nonetheless preferable to Orlinski. 

_*WHAT?!* _

_*That isn't Anne Sophie von Otter?*_

Regrettably, no. Listen to the warm, lovely, very human Von Otter singing "He was despised":


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Anna was very beautiful when she was young. She didn't age well physically.


 Von Otter is 67. She looks fine to me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I don't object to countertenors. I merely dislike most of them. It's a mild dislike in most cases, but enough to put me off of listening to them. Orlinski sounds like some kind of siren - the warning signal, not the mermaid. It's a flat, keening hoot like the whistle of an organ pipe, mechanical and devoid of humanity (of either gender, for those hung up on that point).
> 
> Of the humans, I prefer Simpson to the other countertenor, Michael Chance, who is nonetheless preferable to Orlinski.
> 
> ...


OOOOO darn. It is not Anna ???? Well herein lies a problem I face. Often they screw people like me over by saying this is from Trevor Pennick (sp?) and that is all the information you need to know. Who sings is irrelevant. On this they did not say WHO the singer was, they just put the album cover and I erroneously assumed she was the mezzo since she is a mezzo and it is a mezzo aria ( well really more a contralto). That is why I was surprised it was her as she normally sounds like a soprano. I hope you can forgive. I can't fix this at this point. I don't even know who the singer is. I will change it to mystery singer.
I may not agree with what you wrote about counter tenors but you wrote with such wit and at the skill level of a critic in a classical music magazine that I enjoyed it nevertheless.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> OOOOO darn. It is not Anna ???? Well herein lies a problem I face. Often they screw people like me over by saying this is from Trevor Pennick (sp?) and that is all the information you need to know. Who sings is irrelevant. On this they did not say WHO the singer was, they just put the album cover and I erroneously assumed she was the mezzo since she is a mezzo and it is a mezzo aria ( well really more a contralto). That is why I was surprised it was her as she normally sounds like a soprano. I hope you can forgive. I can't fix this at this point. I don't even know who the singer is. I will change it to mystery singer.
> I may not agree with what you wrote about counter tenors but you wrote with such wit and at the skill level of a critic in a classical music magazine that I enjoyed it nevertheless.
> Back to the countertenor issue, when this was premiered in Handel's day it would have been a countertenor singing this as women were not allowed to sing in the church. I guess the Rejoice aria would have had to be sung by a boy soprano as countertenor sopranos are rare and unlike the Catholic Church I don't think the Church of England had castrati.


The singer is Michael Chance. I don't know what justifies the casting of two altos. The wonderful old Mackerras _Messiah_ on EMI did the same, with Janet Baker and countertenor Paul Esswood. He was better than Orlinski or Chance, so I didn't mind him a bit. Baker was, of course, glorious.

_Messiah_ wasn't written for the church, and there were women in Handel's performances.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> The singer is Michael Chance. I don't know what justifies the casting of two altos. The wonderful old Mackerras _Messiah_ on EMI did the same, with Janet Baker and countertenor Paul Esswood. He was better than Orlinski or Chance, so I didn't mind him a bit. Baker was, of course, glorious.
> 
> _Messiah_ wasn't written for the church, and there were women in Handel's performances.


My sister told me that on the phone a few minutes ago but I will let you tell her that she is wrong 😜


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I voted for Von Otter, sorry Michael Chance, but really I am laughing my head off. It's hilarious that some people appeared to vote for Chance when they thought he was a woman having sounded off about how they don't like countertenors.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I voted for Von Otter, sorry Michael Chance, but really I am laughing my head off. It's hilarious that some people appeared to vote for Chance when they thought he was a woman having sounded off about how they don't like countertenors.


😂😂😂😂


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I went with Simpson but can’t say I’m overly keen on her, she sounds like she has a cold. Maybe she did.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> OOOOO darn. It is not Anna ????* Well herein lies a problem I face.* Often they screw people like me over by saying this is from Trevor Pennick (sp?) and that is all the information you need to know. Who sings is irrelevant. *On this they did not say WHO the singer was, they just put the album cover* and I erroneously assumed she was the mezzo since she is a mezzo and it is a mezzo aria ( well really more a contralto).


When you're on the YouTube page that you're going to use for the competition, look just underneath the title at the gray-coloured section which lists view count and when the video was posted - You may or may not need to click on "Show More" - In this case, you would not have had to because it reads -

Handel: Messiah, HWV 56 / Pt. 1 - VI. "But Who May Abide the Day of His Coming" · Michael Chance · The English Concert · Trevor Pinnock · George Frideric Handel

It's not always this straightforward - You may need to click on "Show More" and scroll down the list of credits until you find what you're searching for - This trick only works with label authorized releases - If it's a transfer made by a fan, they rarely, if ever, take the time to provide this info and you may have to do a search.

A Gramophone review came up as a result of a search for "Messiah - Pinnock" - and this is an excerpt -

"The male alto, Michael Chance, also outshines his direct rivals in artistry and beauty of tone, but he is given only a proportion of the alto numbers, including ''But who may abide'' and ''Thou art gone up on high''. The majority are given to Anne Sofie von Otter. Hers is another beautiful voice, finely controlled. She sustains the very slow speed for ''He was despised'' superbly, and the sparing use of vibrato brings her nearer to the vocal approach adopted by Christopher Hogwood in his Oiseau-Lyre set, where I find several of the soloists too hooty for comfort. Von Otter avoids that, but the voice sometimes sits close to the flat side of the note. "


And... Michael Chance (who I didn't mistake for Anne Sofie von Otter) plus one...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> When you're on the YouTube page that you're going to use for the competition, look just underneath the title at the gray-coloured section which lists view count and when the video was posted - You may or may not need to click on "Show More" - In this case, you would not have had to because it reads -
> 
> Handel: Messiah, HWV 56 / Pt. 1 - VI. "But Who May Abide the Day of His Coming" · Michael Chance · The English Concert · Trevor Pinnock · George Frideric Handel
> 
> ...


God let me make that mistake so I could smote the face of mine enemies 😂 😂 😂


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

That’ll teach me not to read the other posts before I post. Now that I hear it again, it doesn’t sound at all like Anne Sophie!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> That’ll teach me not to read the other posts before I post. Now that I hear it again, it doesn’t sound at all like Anne Sophie!


I was semi-fooled for a couple of minutes, but knew something was wrong. The vibrato, for one thing. My first thought was, "I didn't think she was that old at the time of this recording." Turns out she wasn't. I've no idea how old Chance was, but then he's one of those dreaded contratenorini, who apparently stop growing at twelve.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I confess, I didn't actually watch the ASvO clip (turns out it wasn't actually her haha). I based my judgment off of this recording of her singing another alto aria from The Messiah. Classy and stylistically baroque, yet possessing great vocal clarity and (as is customary for British and German works) understated enthusiasm. My only complaint is a small one: I've never been a fan of the "baroque" style of delayed vibrato.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I was semi-fooled for a couple of minutes, but knew something was wrong. The vibrato, for one thing. My first thought was, "I didn't think she was that old at the time of this recording." Turns out she wasn't. I've no idea how old Chance was, but then he's one of those dreaded contratenorini, who apparently stop growing at twelve.


I was totally fooled, thinking she sounded stronger and richer than normal - that should’ve signaled something was not right as Von Otter’s tone is slenderer.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I confess, I didn't actually watch the ASvO clip (turns out it wasn't actually her haha). I based my judgment off of this recording of her singing another alto aria from The Messiah. Classy and stylistically baroque, yet possessing great vocal clarity and (as is customary for British and German works) understated enthusiasm. My only complaint is a small one: *I've never been a fan of the "baroque" style of delayed vibrato.*


But Von Otter uses the device very purposefully and tastefully, not at all as a "style." I'm tempted to say that singing as intelligent as hers restores to "good taste" its good name.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> But Von Otter uses the device very purposefully and tastefully, not at all as a "style." I'm tempted to say that singing as intelligent as hers restores to "good taste" its good name.


I'm still not the biggest fan of that effect, but it's not nearly enough to ruin a 1st rate performance, largely for the reasons you mentioned. It was some decidedly non-Italianate singing, which was a welcome change of pace with regards to what I've been recently listening to.

The singing style of northern Europe in general feels a little less...selfish. Like, the goal is to allow you to get lost in the music, rather than fixate on the charisma or virtuosity of a particular singer. Most of what is called "good tastes" might also be called "facilitation" or "lack of distraction".


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