# Top ten greatest piano concertos ever?



## NothungWorld

Which are the ten absolute best piano concertos of all time, 
in terms of innovation and influence, as well as their aesthetic importance, 
historical significance and lasting popularity?

A suggestions?

1. Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
2. Piano Concerto No. 2 in B flat major - Johannes Brahms
3. Piano Concerto in A minor - Robert Schumann
4. Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor" in E flat major - Ludwig Van Beethoven
5. Piano Concerto No. 1 in B flat minor - Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky
6. Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor - Sergei Rachmaninoff
7. Piano Concerto No. 4 in G major - Ludwig Van Beethoven
8. Piano Concerto No. 21 in C major - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
9. Piano Concerto No. 24 in C minor - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
10. Piano Concerto No. 23 in A major - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart 

Your suggestions?


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## Bettina

Gosh, I don't feel like I'm qualified to rank concertos in terms of so many weighty factors: aesthetics, lasting popularity, influence, innovation, historical importance...it would take me years to research all those elements! I'll just take the easy way out and compile a list of my ten favorites instead:

1. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor"
2. Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 20
3. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4
4. Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1
5. Ravel: Piano Concerto in G Major
6. Liszt: Totentanz (if this counts as a concerto...)
7. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 3
8. Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 23
9. Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2
10. Schumann: Piano Concerto in A Minor


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## hpowders

In random order:

Beethoven 4

Brahms 2

Mozart 20

Mozart 21

Mozart 23

Mozart 27

Bartók 2

Prokofiev 3

Schoenberg

Tchaikovsky 1

Schumann and Grieg do NOTHING for me, by the way.


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## Bulldog

No particular order:

Shostakovich no. 1
Scriabin
Schumann
Chopin no. 1
Chopin no. 2
Mozart no. 17
Mozart no. 20
Mozart no. 21
Mozart no. 23
Mozart no. 24


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## Olias

I'd probably listen to Beethoven's 4th and 5th PC five times each. Done.


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## cimirro

My taste:

Busoni - Concerto Op.39
Scriabin - Concerto Op.20
Brahms - Concerto Op.83 (No.2)
Liszt - Concerto No.1
Liszt - Concerto No.2
Villa-lobos - Concerto No.1
Rubinstein - Concerto No.4 Op.70
Beethoven - Concerto Op.37 (No.3)
Grieg - Concerto Op.16
Villa-lobos - Concerto No.2

All the best
Artur Cimirro


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Beethoven 5
Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Schumann
Prokofiev 3
Shostakovich 1
Mozart 20
Mozart 24
Tchaikovsky
Chopin 1

(I do love the Busoni concerto too and I guess it would be ranked 11th )


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## Pugg

Beethoven 5
Beethoven 3
Mozart 17
Mozart 20
Dvorak 
Brahms 2
Liszt 1
Liszt 2
Ravel for the left hand.


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## Phil loves classical

Bartok 1
Mozart 27
Ravel in G
Shostakovich 2
Beethoven 5
Prokofiev 2
Mozart 22
Beethoven 4
Mendelssohn 1
Haydn 11


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## mmsbls

As for Bettina, these are probably more favorites than anything else, though given the requirement for historical significance and lasting popularity, I'll leave out anything too modern.

Mozart 20
Mozart 24
Mozart 23
Mozart 21
Beethoven 4
Beethoven 5
Schumann 
Brahms 2
Rachmaninoff 2
Ravel G major

Just missing the cut:
Schoenberg, Beethoven 3, Tchaikovsky 1


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## senza sordino

Beethoven 4
Schumann 
Grieg
Tchaikovsky 1
Rachmaninov 2
Ravel G
Prokofiev 3
Shostakovich 2
Saint Saens 2
Falla Nights in the Garden of Spain

Yes, I know the last piece isn't technically a piano concerto. I chose it anyway


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## StDior

Just my favorites:
Beethoven 4
Prokofiev 2
Chopin 1
Brahms 2
Brahms 1
Beethoven 5
Schumann
Mozart 24
Mozart 25
Liszt 2


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## Razumovskymas

I can't seem to get into Beethoven piano concerto's and I still have a lot of listening to do but here's a list:


Prokofiev 2
Liszt 2
Prokofiev 3
Liszt 1
Schumann
Prokofiev 1
Rachmaninov 3
Rachmaninov 1
Bach Keyboard concerto 1
Mozart 21


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## AfterHours

1) Mozart 21 
2) Brahms 2
3) Beethoven 5
4) Mozart 20
5) Tchaikovsky 1
6) Nyman 
7) Rachmaninov 2
8) Beethoven 4
9) Schuman A Minor
10) Bach Harpsichord 1 


Those are my most stable selections.

From time to time I would consider Schnittke's Concerto for Piano and String Orchestra, Mozart's 24th or Shostakovich's 2nd, among those. More recently, I've been considering Shostakovich's 1st possibly near the top, but still undecided. Several others come close, but again, these are the most unyielding.


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## Pat Fairlea

senza sordino said:


> Beethoven 4
> Schumann
> Grieg
> Tchaikovsky 1
> Rachmaninov 2
> Ravel G
> Prokofiev 3
> Shostakovich 2
> Saint Saens 2
> Falla Nights in the Garden of Spain
> 
> Yes, I know the last piece isn't technically a piano concerto. I chose it anyway


Swap Prokofiev out and Barber in and that's more or less my list.


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## Strange Magic

Here are my top ten today, not in any order. Tomorrow's list may differ.....

Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Prokofiev 2
Prokofiev 3
Rachmaninoff 2
Rachmaninoff 3
Schumann
Ravel Left Hand
Bach 1
Beethoven 4


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## Magnum Miserium

Mozart 9, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 24, 27 [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]

And that leaves two, so let's say Beethoven 4 & 5


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## Phil loves classical

Magnum Miserium said:


> Mozart 9, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 24, 27 [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]
> 
> And that leaves two, so let's say Beethoven 4 & 5


Really? I guess I' m the only one who likes he other movements in 23.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

I have to do more listening of piano concertos....but I have to say that Tchaikovsky's 3rd wins over his other two, it's so unique and interesting, even though the 1st's famous melody still sounds amazing to my ears.

But I would say.....

Ravel's G major.....I'm not really a fan of jazz or jazz-inspired music but Ravel's concerto is such a keeper, it's mysterious, passionate, fun, sophisticated.

Mozart's no. 20 in d minor........most seem to agree that this has an awe-inspiring drama to it based on the other thread.....I guess I'll repeat my opinion that the theme that ends the orchestral introduction and reappears twice more in the 1st movement are among the most hypnotizing, beautiful passages I've ever heard, if not the most. I think Mozart's 24th, the other contender in that thread, also deserves a mention.

Tchaikovsky's 3rd......I think I may have only listened to the 1st movement but it was enough to make me go 'WOAH!'. It sounded like a very advanced Tchaikovsky, with some very modal-sounding parts and some uncharacteristically Wagner-y bits. 

Carlos Chavez' piano concerto.....This one took me a while to warm up to, I'm still not sure if I like all of this composition but it certainly has some great material....I would not call it an easy listen for someone used to romantic piano concerti. If you want something that's completely different from the European or even American piano concnertos, this one might speak to you.

Let's see...from the romantics, liszt's Eb, Schumann's a minor, Grieg's a minor, those are all popular for a reason, they are definitely beautiful, dramatic pieces.


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## Janspe

Phil loves classical said:


> Really? I guess I' m the only one who likes he other movements in 23.


You're not alone - I love every second of the A major!

If I had to choose ten piano concertos to represent the huge variety of compositions written in the genre, the list could look like this:

Mozart: C minor, K.491
Beethoven: G major, Op. 58
Liszt: A major, S.125
Brahms: D minor, Op. 15
Rachmaninoff: D minor, Op. 30
Schoenberg
Ravel: G major, M.83
Bartók: #1, Sz. 83
Prokofiev: G minor, Op. 16
Ligeti

But those are all popular and well-known concertos, and there are so many great masterpieces in the genre that no list could claim to be exhaustive. But I think the above-listed works would give a nice perspective into the genre to someone who hasn't heard any piano concertos!


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Gosh, *I don't feel like I'm qualified to rank concertos* in terms of so many weighty factors: aesthetics, lasting popularity, influence, innovation, historical importance...it would take me years to research all those elements! I'll just take the easy way out and compile a list of my ten favorites instead:
> 
> 1. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor"
> 2. Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 20
> 3. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4
> 4. Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1
> 5. Ravel: Piano Concerto in G Major
> 6. Liszt: Totentanz (if this counts as a concerto...)
> 7. Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 3
> 8. Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 23
> 9. Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2
> 10. Schumann: Piano Concerto in A Minor


And yet, it worked out very well for you!!!


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## Chronochromie

Magnum Miserium said:


> Mozart 9, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 24, 27 [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]
> 
> And that leaves two, so let's say Beethoven 4 & 5


I'd say 9 is overrated. It's excellent but not on the level of his very best, later concertos


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## Judith

Mine are:

Rachmaninov 3rd
Grieg
Tchaikovsky 2nd
Mozart 21st
Liszt 1st
Brahms 1st
Brahms 2nd
Rachmaninov 2nd
Beethoven 5th
Tchaikovsky 1st

There are many more that I love but these have sprung to mind!!


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## AfterHours

Phil loves classical said:


> Really? I guess I' m the only one who likes he other movements in 23.


Yes, Mozart's lyricism!! :tiphat:


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## AfterHours

Wow, I don't think there is a single list on this thread where I didn't think all its selections were outstanding :tiphat:


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## CMonteverdi

Pugg said:


> Beethoven 5
> Beethoven 3
> Mozart 17
> Mozart 20
> Dvorak
> Brahms 2
> Liszt 1
> Liszt 2
> Ravel for the left hand.


Happy to find someone else who's in love with Mozart-17!

LK


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## AfterHours

Seeing those two "tip hats" ^^^ in an endless, simultaneous display of, umm, "tip hatting", caused me to consider for a moment how amused Mozart would've been with emoticons


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## Bulldog

Chronochromie said:


> I'd say 9 is overrated. It's excellent but not on the level of his very best, later concertos


All I can say is that I find the 3rd movement the most enjoyable 3rd of all the Mozart piano concertos.


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## poconoron

Mozart's 17,20,21,22,24,25,27 and Beethoven's 3,4,5. 

Nobody did it any better.


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## hpowders

AfterHours said:


> Wow, I don't think there is a single list on this thread where I didn't think all its selections were outstanding :tiphat:


Very nice of you to say so! :tiphat:


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## Art Rock

Mozart 20,21,24
Schumann
Ravel (both)
Ireland
Brahms 2
Beethoven 3
Shostakovich 2

(no particular order implied)


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## chill782002

Bartok 2
Beethoven 3, 5
Haydn Hob XVIII:11
Mozart 15
Prokofiev 2, 3
Rachmaninov 2, 3
Saint-Saens 4


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## Strange Magic

More concertos: five older, five newer--

Mozart 20, 24, 26
Beethoven 1,3
Bartok 1,2,3
Martinu 2 Pianos 
Rautaavara


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## Tchaikov6

There's so many and only 10 choices... 

1. Emperor Concerto- Beethoven
2. Piano Concerto No. 2- Rachmaninov
3. Piano Concerto- Schumann
4. Piano Concerto No. 3- Rachmaninov
5. Piano Concerto- Grieg
6. Piano Concerto No. 1- Tchaikovsky
7. Piano Concerto No. 21- Mozart
8. Piano Concerto No. 1- Beethoven
9. Piano Concerto- Ravel
10. Piano Concerto No. 2- Brahms


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## Magnum Miserium

Bulldog said:


> All I can say is that I find the 3rd movement the most enjoyable 3rd of all the Mozart piano concertos.


Now that I think about it, for me that's probably 14.


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## Bulldog

Magnum Miserium said:


> Now that I think about it, for me that's probably 14.


That's an excellent 3rd movement; you are a person of fine taste.:tiphat:


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## Haydn man

Mozart 23 and any other 9 you would care to add


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## Woodduck

The OP's question is unanswerable, at least by me. So here are ten current favorites, in no particular order:

Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Grieg
Rachmaninoff 3
Rachmaninoff 4
Prokofiev 1
Prokofiev 3
Busoni
Stenhammar 1
Barber


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## jdec

Brahms 1,2
Beethoven 3,4
Schumann
Rachmaninov 2,3
Mozart 9,20,23
Tchaikovsky 1
Ravel left hand


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## trazom

Mozart: 9, 17, 27
Brahms: 1
Schumann
Prokofiev: 2, 3
Rachmaninoff: 1, 4
Bartok: 3



Magnum Miserium said:


> [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]


I listen to the finale most and there are slow movements from the other piano concertos that I prefer. I know people always mention it because "OMG F sharp minor!" but I'd rather have a concerto movement that starts in a commonly used key that is more harmonically adventurous--like the first movement of K.491 where you have passages in F sharp major-- than something that starts in an "exotic" key but stays closer to home.


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## isorhythm

Magnum Miserium said:


> [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]


Extremely wrong.

Anyway: Mozart 17, 20, 21, 23, 24, 27
Beethoven 4
Prokofiev 3
Ravel
Ligeti


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## jdec

Magnum Miserium said:


> [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]


Really??? I totally care about 1st and 3rd movements too, I like them a lot!


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## Portamento

Moszkowski!
Stanford!

_







_
Close enough to 10.


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## lehnert

My top ten piano concertos (in semi-random order):

Brahms - Piano Concerto no. 2
Beethoven - Piano Concerto no. 5
Mozart - Piano Concerto no. 21
Saint-Saens - Piano Concerto no. 2
Rachmaninoff - Rhapsody on the Theme of Paganini
Chopin - Piano Concerto no. 2
Mozart - Piano Concerto. 20
Prokofiev - Piano Concerto no. 2
Liszt - Piano Concerto no. 2
Busoni - Piano Concerto

I seem to prefer concertos no. 2. That's interesting.


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## DavidA

Mozart 18-27

But I would also include Beethoven 4 and 5
Brahms 1-2
Rachmaninoff 2-3
Ravel left hand
Prokofiev 3


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## David OByrne

Ligeti 
Ferdinand Ries
Schoenberg

To name a few


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## Schumanniac

I'll just go with current favourites, im not too proud to admit i got little clue on historical context or value of most i listen to. In no particular order:

Rachmaninov's 2nd
Brahms 1st
Brahms 2nd
Schumann
Grieg
Beethoven 5th
Chopin 1st
Chopin 2nd
Mozart 24th
Mozart 20th

An utterly boring and by the book list, not much to see here really. I suppose said books are written as such for a reason however


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## Neward Thelman

*Nothing Better In Mind?*



NothungWorld said:


> Which are the ten absolute best piano concertos of all time,
> in terms of innovation and influence, as well as their aesthetic importance,
> historical significance and lasting popularity?
> 
> Your suggestions?


Really? With the thousands of issues in music, many of them of the utmost importance, this is what occupies your mind?

To answer your question, I grew out of this kind of juvenile "best of" thinking - well, when I aged past juvenelia.


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## Woodduck

Neward Thelman said:


> Really? With the thousands of issues in music, many of them of the utmost importance, this is what occupies your mind?
> 
> To answer your question, I grew out of this kind of juvenile "best of" thinking - well, when I aged past juvenelia.


http://images.kw.com/docs/2/1/2/212345/1285134779158_htwfaip.pdf


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## DaveM

Neward Thelman said:


> To answer your question, I grew out of this kind of juvenile "best of" thinking - well, when I aged past juvenelia.


Are you positive?


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## Strange Magic

Neward Thelman said:


> Really? With the thousands of issues in music, many of them of the utmost importance, this is what occupies your mind?.


The thousands of issues, many of them of the utmost importance, should lead to thousands of threads. When can we expect the first hundred?


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## Neward Thelman

No time like the present.

Here's an issue that's destroying classical music, and changing and degrading it - HIP's.

How about another? Medtner had a profound understanding of music. What kind of fortitude and isolation must he have experienced in the face of the tide of 20th cent harmony?

And, critic-scholarly misperceptions of late-romantic chromaticism. 

The list goes on ----

rock on, 
Severius!


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## Woodduck

Neward Thelman said:


> No time like the present.
> 
> Here's an issue that's destroying classical music, and changing and degrading it - HIP's.
> 
> How about another? Medtner had a profound understanding of music. What kind of fortitude and isolation must he have experienced in the face of the tide of 20th cent harmony?
> 
> And, critic-scholarly misperceptions of late-romantic chromaticism.
> 
> The list goes on ----
> 
> rock on,
> Severius!


Those sound good. Pick one, start a thread, and see what happens.


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## Phil loves classical

Neward Thelman said:


> Really? With the thousands of issues in music, many of them of the utmost importance, this is what occupies your mind?
> 
> To answer your question, I grew out of this kind of juvenile "best of" thinking - well, when I aged past juvenelia.


Huh? Only thousands? Can we make more?


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## Pugg

Neward Thelman said:


> No time like the present.
> 
> Here's an issue that's destroying classical music, and changing and degrading it - HIP's.
> 
> How about another? Medtner had a profound understanding of music. What kind of fortitude and isolation must he have experienced in the face of the tide of 20th cent harmony?
> 
> And, critic-scholarly misperceptions of late-romantic chromaticism.
> 
> The list goes on ----
> 
> rock on,
> Severius!


You are making us curious......


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## Skilmarilion

*Ten from 18th C.*

Beethoven: 2
Mozart: 17, 18, 20 - 25, 27

*Ten from 19th C.*

Tchaikovsky: 1, 2
Brahms: 1, 2
Grieg
Beethoven: 3, 4, 5
Schumann
Saint-Saens: 2

*Ten from 20th C.*

Rachmaninov: 2, 3, 4
Prokofiev: 2
Poulenc: concerto for 2 pianos & concerto in C-sharp minor
Martinů: concerto for 2 pianos, H. 292
Glass: 1
de Falla: _Noches en los jardines de España_
Rautavaara: 1


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## Pat Fairlea

Just a thought: any love here for Saint Saens 4th? High Romantic but deeply charming.


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## Razumovskymas

Neward Thelman said:


> Really? With the thousands of issues in music, many of them of the utmost importance, this is what occupies your mind?
> 
> To answer your question, I grew out of this kind of juvenile "best of" thinking - well, when I aged past juvenelia.


Yeah ok but don't tell me that you don't have your favorite piano concertos??? You got me curious!!!

top 5 will do!!


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## Schumanniac

Neward Thelman said:


> No time like the present.
> 
> Here's an issue that's destroying classical music, and changing and degrading it - HIP's.
> 
> How about another? Medtner had a profound understanding of music. What kind of fortitude and isolation must he have experienced in the face of the tide of 20th cent harmony?
> 
> And, critic-scholarly misperceptions of late-romantic chromaticism.


1) didnt know what HiP even was until i googled it a few days ago. Now i know, i'd need months of intense study to comment.
2) Who the hell is Medtner? And what is the issue between him and 20th century harmony? Cant even mentally distinguish typical 20th cen harmony.
3) Whats chromaticism? I know little of musical terms beyond a note, counter point and the sonata form, and half of what i know is likely mistaken.

As these answers so vividly portray many here never played at instrument, studied musical theory/history, composed or have any sense of background knowlegde to support any informed discussion on the subject. We are simply just listeners of magnificent music, truly oblivious to its technical innovations and structures, hell even if its in G, F or D, nor are we aware of its historical context. We cant identify most instruments nor explain the simplest of musical affects. For such individuals all we can really do is ask favourites, speaking passionately about certain pieces or composers when mentioned, sharing our findings and journeys  On this forum you'll have to endure mundane and repetive discussions, with little deeper substance, for most of us are incapable of going much further. Its the price you'll have to pay for the company of us ignorant masses, im afraid.

If you do want such conversations, start a thread, there is a lot of insightful and learned members here. And, naturally, substitute 'greatest' with 'favourites', thats just common sense


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## isorhythm

Neward Thelman said:


> Medtner had a profound understanding of music. What kind of fortitude and isolation must he have experienced in the face of the tide of 20th cent harmony?


Yikes. This is even worse than it looked!


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## laurie

Woodduck said:


> http://images.kw.com/docs/2/1/2/212345/1285134779158_htwfaip.pdf


:lol::lol::lol:


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## ManaLeak

A severely underrated piece I've found is Poulenc's concerto in D minor. It isn't a terribly serious, structural work, but its charm and wit is refreshing. And the central theme of the second movement is incredible; I'd match it against other in this thread. If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend checking it out.


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## gprengel

My favourite piano concertos probably are:
Beethoven 5
Beethoven 4
Brahms 1
Mozart KV 466 
Mozart KV 488
Mozart KV 491
Saint-Saens 5, "The Egytian" !!!
Tschaikowsky 1
Mendelssohn 3 in e (unfinished) - almost unknown but just marvellous in its beauty !!
Ferdinand Ries 8


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## Bettina

gprengel said:


> My favourite piano concertos probably are:
> Beethoven 5
> Beethoven 4
> Brahms 1
> Mozart KV 466
> Mozart KV 488
> Mozart KV 491
> Saint-Saens 5, "The Egytian" !!!
> Tschaikowsky 1
> Mendelssohn 3 in e (unfinished) - almost unknown but just marvellous in its beauty !!
> Ferdinand Ries 8


It's great to see Ries on your list! He's often dismissed as a mere imitator of Beethoven, but his works are quite good and deserve to be heard more often.


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## gprengel

Yes, Ries is wonderful in his piano works and concertos. Id' love to open an own thread with recommendations of his best works...

But what about the Mendessohn concerto I mentioned? Please listen to that one:




 (movements 1 - 2, 3 is not by Mendessohn and not so good)


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## dillonp2020

In random order:
Beethoven no.5
Beethoven no.3
Rachmaninoff no.2
Rachmaninoff no.3
Prokofiev no.3
Grieg
Tchaikovsky no.1
Schumann
Brahms no.2
Mozart no.20


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## Tallisman

There are too many to rank a top 10 without thinking afterwards 'ah, how did I forget that'. 

So I'll just go with what I know is simply the greatest: Mozart's 21st


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## Hurrian

In no particular order:
Beethoven 3, 4, 5
Brahms 2
Rachmaninoff 2
Tchaikovsky 1
Prokofiev 2, 3
Scriabin
Ligeti


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## calvinpv

Bartok 2
Ravel G Major
Prokofiev 2
Szymanowski Symphonie concertante
Lutoslawski 
Scriabin
Messiaen Turangalila-Symphonie
Schoenberg

Looking at others' favorites, I'll be checking out the Poulenc and Radulescu.


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## beetzart

Beethoven 3
Beethoven 4 
Beethoven 5
Mozart 24
Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Mendelssohn 1
Mozart 20
Tchaikovsky 1
Chopin 1


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## AfterHours

calvinpv said:


> Bartok 2
> Ravel G Major
> Prokofiev 2
> Szymanowski Symphonie concertante
> Lutoslawski
> Scriabin
> Messiaen Turangalila-Symphonie
> Schoenberg
> 
> Looking at others' favorites, I'll be checking out the Poulenc and Radulescu.


No fair!  If Messaien's Turangalila (and Bernstein's Age of Anxiety Symphony!) qualify, they both would've made my top 5 (Mozart 21; Messaien's Turangalila; Brahms 2; Bernstein Age of Anxiety; Beethoven 5; Mozart 20 ... ...)


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## T Son of Ander

Hmmm, so many. In no particular order

Tchaikovsky 2
Rachmaninov 2
Beethoven 5
Mozart 24 & 27
Bach, BWV 1052
Falla Nights...
Prokofiev 2 & 3
Saint-Saens 2

Honorable mention, Respighi's A minor


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## S P Summers

I haven't been following this thread so I'm not sure if these PC's have already been mentioned, but here is my list of "All-Time Favorite Piano Concerti". They are all tied for 1st place, and I've listed them in random order. 

They are:

1st- N. Medtner, PC#1 in C Minor, Op. 33 - G.Tozer/N.Järvi recording. All 3 of the Medtner PC's are fking fantastic, but the PC#1, Op.33 is my favorite; (followed closely by PC#3, Op.60).

1st- F.X. Scharwenka, PC#4 in F Minor, Op.82 - S.Hough/L.Foster recording.

1st- W. Żeleński - PC in Eb Major, Op.60 - J.Plowright/L.Borowicz recording. That first movement, holy mother of god!

1st- E. von Sauer - PC#1 in E Minor - S.Hough/L.Foster recording. What a masterpiece.

and finally

1st- M. Moszkowski - PC#2 in E Major, Op.59 - Any recording. If I was *forced* to pick just a single "favorite" PC; the Moszkowski Op.59 would quite possibly be it; although it would be too difficult to pick a "favorite" between the five I mentioned.

So, those are definitely my favorites; although I have two more I`d like to acknowledge as `Honorable Mentions`. In addition to the five I have already discussed, two more PC`s that are very special to me are:

Runner up- C. Saint-Saëns - PC#4 in C Minor,Op.44. I love all of the Saint-Saëns PC's; but 4th (Op.44) is my favorite. I have not decided which recording is my favorite, but the first recording I heard was the S.Hough/S.Oramo recording from Hyperion; and it is just fantastic.

and finally,

Runner up - A.Rubinstein, PC#4 in D minor, Op.70. The 1937 Hofmann recording is the definitive one; but Joseph Moog`s recording is great if you insist on only listening to modern recordings.

To anyone who is not familiar with *ANY* of those concerti I mentioned; do yourself a favor and listen to them RIGHT NOW!


----------



## silentio

Mozart 20
Mozart 24
Mozart 23
Mozart 27
Brahms 2
Beethoven 4
Grieg
Mozart 21
Rachmaninoff 2
Chopin 1

I already tried to balance myself, else I would just include all Piano Concerto of Mozart from No.17 to No.27, minus No.26.


----------



## AfterHours

More current than whenever I last posted a top 10 here...

1. Piano Concerto No. 21 in C Major - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1785) 
2. Piano Concerto No. 2 in B-flat Major - Johannes Brahms (1881) 
3. Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat Major "Emperor" - Ludwig van Beethoven (1811) 
4. Piano Concerto No. 20 in D Minor - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1785) 
5. Concerto for Piano and String Orchestra - Alfred Schnittke (1979) 
6. Piano Concerto No. 1 in B-flat Minor - Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky (1875) 
7. Piano Concerto - Michael Nyman (1993) 
8. Piano Concerto No. 2 in C Minor - Sergei Rachmaninoff (1901) 
9. Piano Concerto in A Minor - Robert Schumann (1845) 
10. Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1806)


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## Agamemnon

I am glad that the utter genius of Mozart's 20th piano concerto is well acknowledged by most of you. Of course there are more brilliant and very charming piano concertos (Tchaikovsky, Grieg and especially Beethoven's 4th), but Mozart's 20th piano concerto is for me the best piano concerto of all, the definite concerto in music history, the piano concerto all others (including Beethoven!) could only dream of being composed by themselves. Actually, Beethoven admired Mozart's 20th...


----------



## Vaneyes

*Ravel* G; *LvB* 2; *Rachmaninov* 2 & 3; *Prokofiev *3; *WAM* 20; *Bartok* 1 - 3; *Lutoslawski*.


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## gprengel

Agamemnon said:


> I am glad that the utter genius of Mozart's 20th piano concerto is well acknowledged by most of you... Beethoven admired Mozart's 20th...


I am not familiar with the numbers of Mozart's piano concertos. What K-Number or key do you refer to? If you say that Beethoven admired it, you probably refer to K 466 in d or 491 in c ...? (I don't know which of these gems I love more


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## ArtMusic

Mozart's last ten or so. He crafted the symphonic piano concerto. Fact.


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## Dave Whitmore

I haven't heard enough to make a complete list but so far my faves are

1 Beethoven 5
2 Mozart 21
3 Tchaikovsky 1
4. Liszt 1
5. Brahms 1.

I'm on a piano concerto kick at the moment so I'm sure I'll be able to add others soon.


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## hpowders

Dave Whitmore said:


> I haven't heard enough to make a complete list but so far my faves are
> 
> 1 Beethoven 5
> 2 Mozart 21
> 3 Tchaikovsky 1
> 4. Liszt 1
> 5. Brahms 1.
> 
> I'm on a piano concerto kick at the moment so I'm sure I'll be able to add others soon.


Those are all good choices!!


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## Dave Whitmore

hpowders said:


> Those are all good choices!!


I like to think so! I certainly enjoy them anyway. I have a feeling I'm going to add Rachmaninoff and Ravel to the list soon.


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## Bruckner Anton

Any of Mozart's piano concertos from 20-27th deserves a place on the list (26th could be an exception). 
Beethoven's 4th is equally great as his 5th.
Brahms's 1st has been sadly underrated since its creation.
Schumann's piano concerto is on the list for sure.
Rachmaninov's 2nd is an extremely popular work with some peculiar writing features, but still stands out among Russian concertos.


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## AfterHours

Dave Whitmore said:


> I haven't heard enough to make a complete list but so far my faves are
> 
> 1 Beethoven 5
> 2 Mozart 21
> 3 Tchaikovsky 1
> 4. Liszt 1
> 5. Brahms 1.
> 
> I'm on a piano concerto kick at the moment so I'm sure I'll be able to add others soon.


Hell of a start!


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## Agamemnon

gprengel said:


> I am not familiar with the numbers of Mozart's piano concertos. What K-Number or key do you refer to? If you say that Beethoven admired it, you probably refer to K 466 in d or 491 in c ...? (I don't know which of these gems I love more


I refer to K466 in d minor.


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## David Phillips

In Artur Rubinstein's autobiography he reveals that Rachmaninov once told him that the greatest piano concerto ever written was Grieg's!


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## Anankasmo

Saint-Saens 2
Saint-Saens 5
Saint-Saens 1
Beethoven 3
Beethoven 4
Beethoven 5
Schnittke Concerto for Piano and Strings
Rautavaara Piano Concerto 1
Prokofiev 2
Shostakovich 1
Bach (keyboard concertos) f-minor, d-minor, E-major, c-minor for two keyboards
Rachmaninoff 2
Rachmaninoff 3
Rachmaninoff 1
Poulenc Piano Concerto
Poulenc Piano Concerto for two pianos
Mendelssohn 1
Grieg
Schumann


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## Pat Fairlea

David Phillips said:


> In Artur Rubinstein's autobiography he reveals that Rachmaninov once told him that the greatest piano concerto ever written was Grieg's!


What a pity that SVR never recorded the Grieg PC


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## Brahmsianhorn

1. Brahms 1
2. Mozart 20
3. Rachmaninoff 3
4. Beethoven 3
5. Tchaikovsky 1
6. Brahms 2
7. Beethoven 5
8. Rachmaninoff 2
9. Mozart 23
10. Beethoven 4


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## S P Summers

Here is my current list of Top 10 All Time Favorite/Greatest Piano Concerti. They *do* change from time to time; so I must include some "honorable mentions" as well...

Top 10 (In random order):

- M.Moszkowski - PC#2 in E Major, Op.59 - Pianist/Label: M.Pawlik/Naxos OR J.Moog/Onyx (Do *NOT* buy the P.Lane/Hyperion recording!)

- N.Medtner - PC#1 in C Minor, Op.33 - Pianist/Label: G.Tozer/Chandos

- H.Melcer-Szczawinski - PC#1 in E Minor - Pianist/Label: J.Plowright/Hyperion

- A.Rubinstein - PC#4 in D Minor, Op.70 - Pianist: J.Hofmann (1937) OR J.Moog (for modern quality)

- W.Zelenski - PC in Eb Major, Op.60 - Pianist/Label: J.Plowright/Hyperion

- E. von Sauer - PC#1 in E Minor - Pianist/Label: S.Hough/Hyperion

- C.Saint-Saens - PC#4 in C Minor, Op.44 - Pianist/Label: S.Hough/Hyperion

- Z.Stojowski - PC#1 in F# Minor, Op.3 - Pianist/Label: J.Plowright/Hyperion

- F.X.Scharwenka - PC#1 in Bb Minor, Op.32 - Pianist/Recording: E.Wild with E.Leinsdorf and BSO (1969)

- C.Saint-Saens - PC#3 in Eb Major, Op.29 - Pianist/Label: S.Hough/Hyperion



Here are my 10 "Honorable Mentions":

- F.X.Scharwenka - PC#2 in C Minor, Op.56 - Pianist/Label: S.Tanyel/Hyperion (my favorite) OR A.Markovich/Chandos (also good)

- Z.Stojowski - PC#2 in Ab Major, Op.32 - Pianist/Label: J.Plowright/Hyperion

- M.Moszkowski - PC#1 in B Minor, Op.3 - Pianist/Label: L.Angelov/Hyperion

- F.X.Scharwenka - PC#3 in C# Minor, Op.80 - Pianist/Recording: S.Tanyel/Hyperion (my favorite) OR A.Markovich/Chandos (also good)

- I.Paderewski - PC in A minor, Op.17 - Pianist/Recording: E.Wild with A.Fiedler and LSO (1970)

- E. von Sauer - PC#2 in C Minor - Pianist/Label: O.Marshev/Danacord

- N.Medtner - PC#3 in E Minor, Op.60 - Pianist/Label: N.Demidenko/Hyperion (arguably better) OR G.Tozer/Chandos (my favorite)

- J.Marx - Romantic PC in E major (Romantisches Klavierkonzert) - Pianist/Recording: J.Bolet/New York Philharmonic

- F.X.Scharwenka - PC#4 in F Minor, Op.82 - Pianist/Label: S.Hough/Hyperion

- S.Thalberg - PC in F Minor, Op.5 - Pianist: F.Nicolosi 



*BONUS* - My top 3 favorite/greatest "mainstream" PC's by well-known composers:

- P.Tchaikovsky - PC#2 in G Major, Op.44 - Pianist/Label: S.Hough/Hyperion

- L.v.Beethoven - PC#4 in G Major, Op.58 - Pianist/Recording: W.Kempff/DG (1962) OR W.Giesking + H.v.Karajan (1951)

- F.Chopin - PC#1 in E Minor, Op.11 - Pianist/Recording: Krystian Zimerman & Polish Festival Orchestra/DG (1999)


----------



## KenOC

Beethoven seemed to have liked the C-minor as well. From Cramer's widow: "At an Augarten Concert the two pianists were walking together and hearing a performance of Mozart's pianoforte Concerto in C Minor (K. 491); Beethoven suddenly stood still and, directing his companion's attention to the exceedingly simple, but equally beautiful motive which is first introduced towards the end of the piece, exclaimed: 'Cramer, Cramer! We shall never be able to do anything like that!' "

But Barry Cooper is a doubter. "More fundamental objections to the anecdote hinge on three features. Firstly, the means by which it was transmitted from Cramer to us was a hazardous one, with the result that errors are likely to have crept in. secondly, Mozart's C Minor Concerto was not published until about August 1800, after Cramer had departed from Vienna back to his home in London. And thirdly, the musical description fits neither the finale nor any other movement of the concerto."


----------



## ejlander129

In no order:
Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Rachmaninov 2
Rachmaninov 3
Beethoven 4
Beethoven 5 (Emperor)
Tchaikovsky 1
Grieg
Mozart 20
Mozart 21


----------



## PlaySalieri

Magnum Miserium said:


> Mozart 9, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 24, 27 [Most overrated: 23, nobody cares about anything except the 2nd movement]
> 
> And that leaves two, so let's say Beethoven 4 & 5


You obviously have an ear for Mozart's music - so I am surprised at your statement about the a major.

The movements are all equal in my view.


----------



## BiscuityBoyle

Ten of my favorites are 

Bach f minor (esp as played by Maria Grinberg) 
Mozart 15 (esp as played by Michelangeli) 
Schumann 
Ravel d minor 
Bartok 1 (esp as played by Geza Anda) 
Prokofiev 3
Prokofiev 4 (esp as played by Vedernikov) 
Hindemith - Kammermusik No. 2, op. 36 no. 1 (esp as played by Richter) 
Stravinsky - piano & winds (esp as played by Yudina) 
Ligeti 


Sometimes I know the dancer from the dance, other times not so much


----------



## Star

I've always had an affection for the Beethoven 3 as it was the first concerto I learned to play. However it is probably not his best concerto, although I have a marvellous performance by Richter.
In terms of 'greatness' I would pick:
Mozart: nos 20, 24 and 25 although you could pick just about any out of his later concertos as they are the most sublime set ever written. 
Beethoven 4 and 5 - the latter because it opens up the possibilities of the piano as never before
Brahms 1 (although you could substitute 2)
Tchaikovsky 1 
Rachmaninov 3 
Ravel left hand concerto 
Bartok 2


----------



## KenOC

Star said:


> I've always had an affection for the Beethoven 3 as it was the first concerto I learned to play. However it is probably not his best concerto...


From an AMZ review of Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto in 1805: "This concerto is among the most important works published by this genial master in recent years. In certain aspects it may even excel above all others. In none of his latest works does the reviewer find so many beautiful and noble ideas, such a thorough execution that does not tend to the bombastic or contrived, such a firm character without excesses, or such unity. Wherever it can be performed well, it will have the greatest and most beautiful effect. Even in Leipzig, where one is used to hearing the greater Mozart concertos performed well and where one views them with justifiable preference, this will be and has already been the case."


----------



## PlaySalieri

KenOC said:


> From an AMZ review of Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto in 1805: "This concerto is among the most important works published by this genial master in recent years. In certain aspects it may even excel above all others. In none of his latest works does the reviewer find so many beautiful and noble ideas, such a thorough execution that does not tend to the bombastic or contrived, such a firm character without excesses, or such unity. Wherever it can be performed well, it will have the greatest and most beautiful effect. *Even in Leipzig, where one is used to hearing the greater Mozart concertos performed well and where one views them with justifiable preference,* this will be and has already been the case."


what I find interesting here is nothing to do with Beethoven

evidently in 1805 Mozart's pcs were considered to be the pinnacle of the art as it was at that time in Germany. I can imagine Salieri reading these words and gritting his teeth.


----------



## Polyphemus

In no prticular order (except For the first one Rachmaninov 3)

Rachmaninov 3
Beethoven 4
Brahms 1
Busoni 
Lutoslawski
Medtner 1
Mozart 20
Mozart 25
Rachmaninov 2
Tchaikovsky 1


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## vesteel

Beethoven 5

Beethoven 3

Mozart 20

Mozart 9

Rach 2

Prokofiev 3

Grieg

Beethoven Choral Fantasy?

Haydn 11

Mendelssohn 1


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## insomniclassicac

Since all the "usual suspects" have already been listed many times over, I'll recommend ten lesser-known concertos of high merit I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Charles-Valentin Alkan - Concerto For Solo Piano, Op. 39, Nos. 8-10 (maybe a bit of a cheat, lol)
Amy Beach - Piano Concerto in C-sharp minor, Op. 45
Ernest Bloch - Concerto Symphonique in B Minor
Norbert Burgmüller - Piano Concerto in F-sharp Minor, Op. 1
Volfgangs Dārziņš - Piano Concerto No. 2
Lūcija Garūta - Piano Concerto in F-sharp Minor
Sergei Lyapunov - Piano Concerto No. 2 in E Major, Op. 38
Dora Pejačević - Piano Concerto in G Minor, Op. 33
Dora Pejačević - Phantasie concertante in D Minor, Op. 48
Max Reger - Piano Concerto in F Minor, Op. 114


----------



## MusicSybarite

insomniclassicac said:


> Since all the "usual suspects" have already been listed many times over, I'll recommend ten lesser-known concertos of high merit I haven't seen mentioned yet:
> 
> Charles-Valentin Alkan - Concerto For Solo Piano, Op. 39, Nos. 8-10 (maybe a bit of a cheat, lol)
> Amy Beach - Piano Concerto in C-sharp minor, Op. 45
> Ernest Bloch - Concerto Symphonique in B Minor
> Norbert Burgmüller - Piano Concerto in F-sharp Minor, Op. 1
> Volfgangs Dārziņš - Piano Concerto No. 2
> Lūcija Garūta - Piano Concerto in F-sharp Minor
> Sergei Lyapunov - Piano Concerto No. 2 in E Major, Op. 38
> Dora Pejačević - Piano Concerto in G Minor, Op. 33
> Dora Pejačević - Phantasie concertante in D Minor, Op. 48
> Max Reger - Piano Concerto in F Minor, Op. 114


I like so much variety. Great examples, as others I'm not familiar with.


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## MusicSybarite

First of all, I'm not the big fan of some overexposed concertos (Schumann, Rachmaninov, Chopin, Mozart). They are great, of course, but they are not the only ones that are ravishing.

So my list would be like this:

Busoni - Piano concerto in C major
Gershwin - Piano concerto in F major
Khachaturian - Piano concerto in D-flat major
Saint-Saëns - Piano concerto nº 5 in F major 'Egyptian'
Pizzetti - Canti della stagione alta
Ravel - Piano concerto for the left hand
Atterberg - Piano concerto in B-flat minor
Brahms - Piano concerto nº 2 in B-flat major
Rubinstein - Piano concerto nº 4 in D minor
Penderecki - Piano concerto 'Resurrection'


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## tdc

Not ranked in order and not including Bach's keyboard concertos:

Mozart Piano Concerto No. 9
Mozart Piano Concerto No. 20
Mozart Piano Concerto No. 24
Ravel Piano Concerto in G
Ravel Piano Concerto for the left hand
Bartok Piano Concerto No. 1
Bartok Piano Concerto No. 2
Bartok Piano Concerto No. 3
Schnittke Concerto for Piano and strings
Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2


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## 13hm13

Agree with the "general consensus" ... WAM, LVB, Rach, etc.

However I'd add one personal fave ...

The Symphonic Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in B minor by Wilhelm Furtwängler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_(Furtwängler)
Wiki notes" among the longest of all piano concertos."

It is avail on recorded commercially-avail. formats (but) the ones I prefer are rare (but on YouTube).

A modern recording with above-average performance is:





The best performance (with a recording of below-avg quality) is:




I think the Mehta/LAPhil was a radio broadcast, but distributed to radio stations on LP. A few LP copies are out there still!!

Badly in need of a modern, high-rez re-recording.

I can play this one repeatedly, all the (long) way thru, w/o boredom.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Give these collections a listen. You might have some new top ten candidates. Several dozen lesser heard concertos.

















When you're finished listening to those, live a little and try these


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> From an AMZ review of Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto in 1805: "This concerto is among the most important works published by this *genial master* in recent years. In certain aspects it may even excel above all others. In none of his latest works does the reviewer find so many beautiful and noble ideas, such a thorough execution that does not tend to the bombastic or contrived, such a firm character without excesses, or such unity. Wherever it can be performed well, it will have the greatest and most beautiful effect. Even in Leipzig, where one is used to hearing the greater Mozart concertos performed well and where one views them with justifiable preference, this will be and has already been the case."


Did this guy know Beethoven personally. From what we read of him 'genial' is not how most people would describe him. Nor much of his music!


----------



## PlaySalieri

Was not k466 the highest placed pc in the TC top 300?

Based on that and the number of appearances in peoples top 10 on this thread I think it's safe to conclude the PC20 is the ..............

I wont say it - but you all know what I mean.


----------



## Jacck

stomanek said:


> Was not k466 the highest placed pc in the TC top 300? Based on that and the number of appearances in peoples top 10 on this thread I think it's safe to conclude the PC20 is the .............. I wont say it - but you all know what I mean.


Let me guess: the most overrated piano concerto ever? :lol:


----------



## hpowders

Greatest? No such thing.

Favorites of mine, in the order they came into my head:

Mozart 23

Tchaikovsky 1

Prokofiev 3

Mozart 15

Brahms 2

Schoenberg

Shostakovich 2

Bartok 2

Beethoven 1

Bartok 3


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## jdec

Brahms 1

Brahms 2

Rachmaninov 3

Rachmaninov 2

Schumann

Mozart 23

Mozart 9

Beethoven 3

Ravel 'for the left hand'

Tchaikovsky 1


----------



## PeterFromLA

In No Particular Order:

Ravel "For the Left Hand"
Ravel Concerto In G
Lutoslawski
Silvestrov "Postludium"
Ligeti
Bartok 2
Schnittke Concerto for Piano and Strings
Berio Concerto for Two Pianos
Beethoven 1
Mozart 25


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

DaveM said:


> Are you positive?


My body aged past juvenelia. My mind is a different story. But there are a lot of best threads here. To which I would have to say. Yo Mama.


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

Yikes. A duplicate post.


----------



## BiscuityBoyle

Jacck said:


> Let me guess: the most overrated piano concerto ever? :lol:


In another thread you said



> I discovered classical music about a year ago and have been constantly discovering new stuff since, without too much dwelling on anything.


Without wanting to come across as rude or aggressive - don't you think you might want to be a bit more humble in your proclamations, even if you don't intend them to be taken entirely seriously? To many of the greatest performers of the 20th century, Mozart was an enigma, perhaps the most difficult composer to get down to the bottom of and make one's own - maybe there's something there you don't quite get about this music and it's worth giving it some time?


----------



## Enthusiast

The ten best must belong to the following list

Mozart's 17 - 25
Beethoven - all
Brahms - both
Schumann
Bartok - all
Prokofiev - 2 & 3 
Schnittke - Piano & Strings
Ravel - in G
Ligeti - Piano and Orchestra

That's 25 and there are probably a few modern ones that belong in the list but that I have momentarily forgotten and are definitely some more recent ones that are probably as great. The top ten must be among them but don't ask me to choose further - I have already rejected a lot of wonderful music.


----------



## DeepR

Some of my favorites are Beethoven #5, Mozart #27, Grieg, Moszkowski #1, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff #2.
I also love the Paganini Rhapsody and I don't care if it counts. 
And I'm currently getting to know VON HENSELT's piano concerto, which just might be a candidate.


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## leonsm

Rachmaninoff no. 2
Atterberg
Prokofiev no. 2 & 3
Ravel in G major
Beethoven no. 3 & 5
Mozart no. 23
Brahms no. 1 & 2


----------



## DeepR

DeepR said:


> Some of my favorites are Beethoven #5, Mozart #27, Grieg, Moszkowski #1, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff #2.
> I also love the Paganini Rhapsody and I don't care if it counts.
> And I'm currently getting to know VON HENSELT's piano concerto, which just might be a candidate.


I forgot to mention Liszt #2, love it!


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## Oldhoosierdude

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/s.asp?s=S_1

Hyperion continues to release what they are labeling as Romantic Piano Concertos. They are now at volume 78. Mostly lesser know /heard/recorded works. Proving that there are hundreds of PC's out there for rediscovery. Wonder if and when they will release a box set or two and what the price might be.


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## Fredx2098

Rautavaara's first and Brahms' first are probably at the top of my list!

This performance of Brahms is stunning:


----------



## Samehada

My problem with this thread is that at least five or six of my top ten would be by Mozart. I guess there are worse problems in the world. The only composers I've heard so far that approach this level is Beethoven, Brahms and Ravel.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

Favorites in no special order:
Brahms #1, #2
Beethoven #3, #4
Mozart #21, #25
Tchaikovsky #1
Rachmaninoff #2, #3
Prokofiev #3


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## Eusebius12

Mozart, Mozart, Beethoven and Mozart, with guest appearances by Rachmaninov, Chopin, Brahms and Schumann (baroque keyboard concertos, Bach, Bach, Handel and Bach). CPE Bach is worth exploring in all genres.
As for Konzertstuecke (possibly a more interesting question) I would proffer Schumann(2 works), Faure, Franck, Weber and d'Indy (well his Symphony no.2 is not really a concerto or concert-piece, more like a concertante symphony). Plus of course the Rachmaninov Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini.

Richard Strauss's Burleske is an amazing piece:


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## Eusebius12

This is also well worth hearing.


----------



## Highwayman

1- Brahms 2
2- Brahms 1
3- Schumann
4- Beethoven 4
5- Beethoven 3
6- Rach 3
7- Rach 2
8- Saint-Saëns 2
9- Mendelssohn 1
10- Dvořák


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## Oldhoosierdude

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=2ahUKEwjUhIWco6XdAhVQYK0KHQSmAasQwqsBMAB6BAgKE AU&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov


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## Eusebius12

This is possibly the greatest piano concerto of the last 30 years:


----------



## KenOC

Not available in my country! I've e-mailed Trump and asked him to declare war.


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## Eusebius12

KenOC said:


> Not available in my country! I've e-mailed Trump and asked him to declare war.


Haha! Just tell him to make sure he is talking to the right Prime Minister, it gets confusing here at times. He already said to the current PM's predecessor that 'this is the worst deal ever' or something like that..

Edit...
Does this work?


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## KenOC

Bach: Brandenburg Concerto #5
Mozart: #s 9, 20, 21, 23 (and likely some others)
Beethoven: #s 3, 4, 5
Schumann: #1
Brahms: #s 1, 2
Tchaikovsky: #1
Prokofiev: #s 2, 3
Shostakovich: #2

I’ll wait for some payola from Mendelssohn. He can afford it.


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## KenOC

Eusebius12 said:


> Edit...
> Does this work?


Sure does. And against the slow movement of the Vine I'll pit the slow movement of the Barber concerto (listen if you haven't heard this...)


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## Eusebius12

KenOC said:


> Sure does. And against the Vine I'll pit the slow movement of the Barber concerto (listen if you haven't heard this...)


What a wonderfully beautiful piece! I haven't heard it enough....still the Vine is less than 30 years old whereas the Barber is about 50, so my original statement is probably still true 

I need to get a copy of that score by Barber, truly up there with Ravel and Rachmaninov for sheer beauty in a piano concerto slow movement. Surely Barber is the greatest American composer of the 20th century? I would rate that as far more affecting than the Adagio for Strings...


----------



## KenOC

Eusebius12 said:


> What a wonderfully beautiful piece! I haven't heard it enough....still the Vine is less than 30 years old whereas the Barber is about 50, so my original statement is probably still true
> 
> I need to get a copy of that score by Barber, truly up there with Ravel and Rachmaninov for sheer beauty in a piano concerto slow movement. Surely Barber is the greatest American composer of the 20th century? I would rate that as far more affecting than the Adagio for Strings...


Yes, that movement is good, but the rest of the concerto perhaps less so. And for the record, I liked the Vine very much!


----------



## joen_cph

I could list 20 maybe, but not 10, it´s too small a number ...


----------



## Louis Van

In no particular order here’s my top 10:
Prokofiev 3
Rachmaninov 2
Beethoven 5
Gershwin in F (absolutely floored no one else included this!)
Scriabin 
Grieg
Listz 1
Mozart 21
Mozart 20
Mozart 24


----------



## Muse Wanderer

Mozart 20
Bach 1
Mozart 23
Beethoven 4
Prokofiev 3
Brahms 2
Schoenberg
Bartok 3
Ravel in G
Ligeti


----------



## beetzart

In no particular order:

Saint Saens No. 2
Beethoven No. 4
Mozart No. 24
Brahms No. 1
Brahms No. 2
Chopin No. 1
Chopin No. 2
Tchaikovsky No. 1
Grieg
Rachmaninov No. 3


----------



## ojoncas

I’ll go with my favourites, by memory.

1 - Beethoven’s 4th
2 - Mozart’s 20th
3 - Brahms’ 1st
4 - Rachmaninoff’s 2nd
5 - Tchaikovsky’s 1st
6 - Ravel’s in G Major
7 - Mendelssohn’s 1st
8 - Alkan’s Da Camera’s 2nd
9 - Prokofiev’s 3rd
X - Gershwin’s Rhapsody (if that counts)

As much as I love Chopin, Liszt and Schumann piano works, their Concertos just couldn’t make it to the top 10.


----------



## starthrower

Bartok 1-2
Prokofiev 2
Ligeti
Lutoslawski
Schoenberg
Mozart 21
Stravinsky
Rach 2
Schnittke


----------



## Mifek

1. Rachmaninoff 2
2. Tchaikovsky 1
3. Saint-Saëns 2
4. Grieg
5. Prokofiev 2
6. Beethoven 5
7. Brahms 2
8. Beethoven 4
9. Prokofiev 1
10. Brahms 1


----------



## Dimace

Tschaikowsky 1
Rach 2 & 3
Busoni P.C
Scriabin op.20
Chopin 1 & 2
Beethoven 4 & 5
Thalberg in Fm


----------



## Phil loves classical

Mozart's 21, 22, 23, 24, 27
Beethoven's 4, 5
Ravel's in G
Prokofiev's 2
Bartok's 3


----------



## MusicSybarite

Possibly not the greatest, but my favorites, so...

Brahms - No. 2
Ravel - For the left hand (the one in G major should be too)
Busoni - Piano concerto in C major (with male chorus)
Beethoven - No. 4
Pizzetti - _Canti della stagione alta_ (This is incandescently romantic!)
Casella - Concerto for piano, strings, timpani and percussion, Op. 69
Braunfels - Piano concerto, Op. 21 (It's been a recent discovery, and what a piece of a concerto this is!)
Mozart - No. 21
Chisholm - No. 1 _Piobaireachd_
Atterberg - Piano concerto in B flat minor


----------



## KenOC

Brahms 2 is certainly the most expansive and _biggest _of the major concertos...the feeling of sheer _size _is present throughout.


----------



## science

This, and many other questions like it, have been decided over many rounds of voting, and the answers can be gleaned from the Talk Classical Community's Favorite and Most Highly Recommended Works.

The answers (some very much to my surprise) are:

1st (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #2
1st (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #20. 
3rd (tied). Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4
3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #21
3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #23
3rd (tied). Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #3
3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #2
3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3
9th (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #1 
9th (tied). Grieg: Piano Concerto 
9th (tied). Ravel: Piano Concerto in G 
9th (tied). Schumann: Piano Concerto

Happy listening!


----------



## KenOC

Another list, from the old Amazon forum.

1 - Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4 in G major (tie)
1 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #24 in C minor (tie) 
3 - Brahms: Piano Concerto #1 in D minor
4 - Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3 in D minor
5 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #23 in A major
6 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #20 in D minor
7 - Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #1 in B-flat minor
8 - Brahms: Piano Concerto #2 in B-flat major
9 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #21 in C major
10 - Beethoven: Piano Concerto #3 in C minor


----------



## poconoron

KenOC said:


> Another list, from the old Amazon forum.
> 
> 1 - Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4 in G major (tie)
> 1 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #24 in C minor (tie)
> 3 - Brahms: Piano Concerto #1 in D minor
> 4 - Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3 in D minor
> 5 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #23 in A major
> 6 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #20 in D minor
> 7 - Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #1 in B-flat minor
> 8 - Brahms: Piano Concerto #2 in B-flat major
> 9 - Mozart: Piano Concerto #21 in C major
> 10 - Beethoven: Piano Concerto #3 in C minor


This is a great list which I could agree with............


----------



## Tchaikov6

science said:


> This, and many other questions like it, have been decided over many rounds of voting, and the answers can be gleaned from the Talk Classical Community's Favorite and Most Highly Recommended Works.
> 
> The answers (some very much to my surprise) are:
> 
> 1st (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #2
> 1st (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #20.
> 3rd (tied). Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4
> 3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #21
> 3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #23
> 3rd (tied). Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #3
> 3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #2
> 3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3
> 9th (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #1
> 9th (tied). Grieg: Piano Concerto
> 9th (tied). Ravel: Piano Concerto in G
> 9th (tied). Schumann: Piano Concerto
> 
> Happy listening!


I'd generally agree with this list more, furthermore re-ranking it more specifically imo:

1. Mozart: Piano Concerto #20 - One of the essential Mozart pieces, simply an exquisite journey to the depths of the soul.

2. Brahms: Piano Concerto #2 - Beautiful, lush, Romantic, and searching, this is almost as great as the Mozart.

3. Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4 - One of Beethoven's best works imo.

4. Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #2 - I think this redefined Russian music, Rachmaninov's specifically, in general.

5. Mozart: Piano Concerto #23 - An amazing and cheerful piece, with dark undercurrents.

6. Mozart: Piano Concerto #21 - Sometimes regarded as a not-so-serious piece, this concerto has such depth of emotion, especially in the famous second movement. And the more "fun" moments are so fun and delightful that it's hard not to love this piece.

7. Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #3 - Brilliant, often sarcastic, and a whole lot of fun in this piece.

8. Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3 - It is quite amazing, but I find it doesn't live up to the 2nd piano concerto.

9. Schumann: Piano Concerto
Both of these pieces redefined the genre in my opinion, and are amazing pieces. 
10. Ravel: Piano Concerto in G


----------



## Dimace

science said:


> This, and many other questions like it, have been decided over many rounds of voting, and the answers can be gleaned from the Talk Classical Community's Favorite and Most Highly Recommended Works.
> 
> The answers (some very much to my surprise) are:
> 
> 1st (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #2
> 1st (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #20.
> 3rd (tied). Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4
> 3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #21
> 3rd (tied). Mozart: Piano Concerto #23
> 3rd (tied). Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #3
> 3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #2
> 3rd (tied). Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto #3
> 9th (tied). Brahms: Piano Concerto #1
> 9th (tied). Grieg: Piano Concerto
> 9th (tied). Ravel: Piano Concerto in G
> 9th (tied). Schumann: Piano Concerto
> 
> Happy listening!


You are doing excellent job, with all these leasts shown what the fellow users listen and appreciate. The absence of Tschaikowskys 1st and Beethovens 5th from the list is a big surprise to me. Also the presence of Schumanns concerto. Music, after all, is very strange and sometimes mysterious and for these reasons so beautiful.


----------



## hammeredklavier

Dimace said:


> Scriabin op.20
> Chopin 1 & 2


I sort of agree with David C. F. Wright saying that Scriabin's F sharp minor is not one of the greatest piano concertos ever written. https://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/composers-and-mental-illness.pdf#page=5
It was actually criticized by Rimsky-Korsakov for bad orchestration. https://scholarship.claremont.edu/c...le.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1314&context=ppr

The Chopin concertos are more like solo piano pieces with orchestral introductions and interludes, and honestly are not that great compared to Hummel's A minor Op.85 and B minor Op.89, which Chopin himself was greatly influenced by.


----------



## Becca

KenOC said:


> Brahms 2 is certainly the most expansive and _biggest _of the major concertos...the feeling of sheer _size _is present throughout.


Compared to the Busoni concerto?????


----------



## regenmusic

Einojuhani Rautavaara - Piano Concerto No. 1 

(This is a subscription service. The first one is free, you have to pay $9.95 a week thereafter).


----------



## joen_cph

There are recorded couplings of the Brahms Concertos 1+2, where the 1st Concerto takes longer than the 2nd, still with both works played in a rather slender and energetic way (Manz/Mandeal on Arte Nova, recommended).


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## larold

To be clear these would be favorites, not "greatest"

Mozart 21 way beyond anything else

the followers...
Beethoven 4
Mozart 25
St. Saens 5 "Egyptian"
Chopin 1
Bach 1
Beethoven 5
Mozart 25
Triebensee in E flat with wind octet and double bass
Bach BWV 1056 (I think that would be No. 3 but am unsure)


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## Brahmsianhorn

My favs

Brahms 1
Beethoven 3
Mozart 20
Brahms 2
Rach 3
Mozart 23
Rach 2
Beethoven 5
Tchaikovsky 1
Grieg


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## PlaySalieri

Interesting all of Mozarts last 7 concertos appear frequently in people's top 10 but we never see the poor old coronation concerto K537. 

I understand that this concerto was thought in the 19thC by many to be Mozart's best. A view that would be considered absurd today.


----------



## hammeredklavier

stomanek said:


> Interesting all of Mozarts last 7 concertos appear frequently in people's top 10 but we never see the poor old coronation concerto K537.
> 
> I understand that this concerto was thought in the 19thC by many to be Mozart's best. A view that would be considered absurd today.


I don't think K537 really deserves a place here. I can't say it's more interesting in terms of color than 9th, 14th, 15th, 17th, 18th, 19th even. 








A number of Mozart works are said to have been pretty well-known and loved during the 19thC. Such as Fantasy in F minor for mechanical organ K608
https://muswrite.blogspot.com/2013/09/mozart-fantasia-for-mechanical-clock.html


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

Hi everyone, new here!

My music preferences tend to be quite mercurial, and I'm not huge on the whole idea of ranking great classical works anyway, but here goes:
(In alphabetical order, and assuming Bach doesn't count)
Beethoven 4
Beethoven 5
Brahms 1
Brahms 2
Mozart 20
Mozart 21
Mozart 23
Mozart 24
Rach 3
Ravel G Major

Honorable mentions including but not limited to: Prokofiev 2 and 3, Rach 2 and 4, Tchaikovsky 1, Schumann, Grieg, and all of the late Mozarts that I didn't already include


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## science

Dimace said:


> You are doing excellent job, with all these leasts shown what the fellow users listen and appreciate. The absence of Tschaikowskys 1st and Beethovens 5th from the list is a big surprise to me. Also the presence of Schumanns concerto. Music, after all, is very strange and sometimes mysterious and for these reasons so beautiful.


You've got to come and vote!

Those works aren't up right now but they will be soon.

Currently, we are running:

2 pointers (actually 3-pointers), part 11
2 pointers (actually 3-pointers), part 12
13 pointers, part 1
23 pointers 

We'd love to have everyone's input!


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## DeepR

hammeredklavier said:


> I sort of agree with David C. F. Wright saying that Scriabin's F sharp minor is not one of the greatest piano concertos ever written. https://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/composers-and-mental-illness.pdf#page=5
> It was actually criticized by Rimsky-Korsakov for bad orchestration. https://scholarship.claremont.edu/c...le.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1314&context=ppr


Thanks for linking that paper.
That other site you linked (https://www.wrightmusic.net) is quite frankly a terrible source and best ignored.

Even though Scriabin's PC is a somewhat troubled piece, it's one of the most beautiful concertos I know. Apparently, also to some other posters on TC. 
The fact that he wrote it largely in a matter of days just adds to my amazement; something as stunningly beautiful as the middle movement and as uplifting as the third movement.





The author of the paper you linked is in fact quite positive about the concerto ("The limited popularity of Scriabin's Concerto today can hardly be blamed on its music, *which is enticingly poetic and filled with exquisite musical ideas*. The reasons for the Concerto's *undeserved obscurity* are, instead, peripheral: The lack of balance between the piano and the orchestra, and the unwieldy solo part, which looks much more difficult on paper than it actually sounds")

Scriabin's own performances had great succes after its initial failure. And the fact that someone like Mikhail Pletnev is looking at it today and making some revisions to the score also shows that it has lasting power.
Scriabin never rewrote it, because he had moved on to other things, like always. It was a one-time thing for him, a work of youthful inspiration and it already showed his brilliance. For sure his orchestration skills had improved drastically by the time he wrote his symphonic poems.


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## PlaySalieri

I cant agree that the Scriabin PC belongs in the hall of fame PC list having just listened to the work for the first time - Ashkenazy. It is an attractive work with some lovely moments but it lacks the force of epic works by Chopin Grieg Tchaik Rachmaninov. There are some people on youtube saying this is better than rach 2 etc but in my view that is excessive praise.


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## hammeredklavier

The Scriabin PC has lots of expressive melodies, a fine work, but I don't think it's one of the greatest 10 of its kind. the same goes for Grieg's, which has too many 'bombasts' in the piano that I find a little pointless. I think both share the same problems: the orchestration, and structure of the last movement. The Grieg concerto's sounds like two movements attached together, while the Scriabin concerto's is way too repetitive with its themes. Both composers did not fully familiarize themselves with large forms. I would say neither of them reaches the same level as Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd.


----------



## DeepR

stomanek said:


> I cant agree that the Scriabin PC belongs in the hall of fame PC list having just listened to the work for the first time - Ashkenazy. It is an attractive work with some lovely moments but it lacks the force of epic works by Chopin Grieg Tchaik Rachmaninov. There are some people on youtube saying this is better than rach 2 etc but in my view that is excessive praise.


Maybe so. In some ways I prefer Rach, Grieg and others. But I find there is a certain spontaneity and almost naively youthful spirit about the work that I happen to like very much. A quality I do not hear often in other concertos. I admit though that the main reason I like this work so much is the gorgeous middle movement, which has moved me on several occasions. If you ever decide to listen again, may I suggest the recording with Ashkenazy as conductor and pianist Jablonski (or is that the one you listened to? ).


----------



## PlaySalieri

hammeredklavier said:


> The Scriabin PC has lots of expressive melodies, a fine work, but I don't think it's one of the greatest 10 of its kind. the same goes for Grieg's, which has too many 'bombasts' in the piano that I find a little pointless. I think both share the same problems: the orchestration, and structure of the last movement. The Grieg concerto's sounds like two movements attached together, while the Scriabin concerto's is way too repetitive with its themes. Both composers did not fully familiarize themselves with large forms. I would say neither of them reaches the same level as Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd.


I dont know how to address your critique of the Grieg concerto. It seems like a groundbreaking work to me that Tchaik and Rach both used as model. Huge full blown theme exploited in the finale - the tchaik and Rach 2,3 have that. In any case I think it is better than you give it credit. It's also shorter than most others which I think is a major strength - very high quality material is packed into a relatively short work and in my view it packs quite a punch. When you hear the Grieg PC for the first time - it sounds like a major repertoire piece in the way that,for example, the Scriabin doesn't. From the startling opening through to the epic ending I think the Grieg PC is a stunning work.


----------



## DavidA

Becca said:


> Compared to the Busoni concerto?????


Must confess I've tried with Busoni but find it interminable and pretty boring.


----------



## PlaySalieri

DavidA said:


> Must confess I've tried with Busoni but find it interminable and pretty boring.


I've never tried but your description is what I would expect it to be.


----------



## joen_cph

There are some boring recordings out there, but the Proms live recording of the Busoni concerto with Donohoe/Elder is electrifying:


----------



## Enthusiast

^^^ I don't think it is so awful. It is too long but it includes lots that is quite good. I get on fine with the Hamelin recording. I prefer it to many 3rd rank Romantic piano concertos for its boldness and some attractive ideas but this is not really my area (I stumbled across the Busoni by accident).

As for my top 10 - impossible question - I would need to include Beethoven 5 and Brahms 2 (it is hurting not to have any of the others from these composers), the Schumann and a Mozart - I'll go for 25 (but should really choose six or seven at least) - *so that is four*.

Then I need to include Bartok 2 (I'm already missing 1 and 3), Prokofiev 2 (but losing 3 is a shame) and the Ravel in G - *that makes 7*.

I won't include the Britten but would include the Tippett and the Ligeti ... but not quite the Lutoslawski or the Schnittke - _*so that makes 9*_.

_*My final choice*_ is Birtwistle's Antiphonies. This is newer to me but so far it is really impressing me. But giving it such a treasured place is a bit of a risk.

I have left out so many piano concertos that I couldn't live without. But if I did have to restrict myself to ten then those ten could be my best bet.


----------



## larold

_Interesting all of Mozarts last 7 concertos appear frequently in people's top 10 but we never see the poor old coronation concerto K537. I understand that this concerto was thought in the 19thC by many to be Mozart's best. A view that would be considered absurd today. _

Not so much; in Beethoven's lifetime his most popular composition, often played and concertized, was his Mozartean Septet.

As we know, most Mahler symphonies were neither popular nor played much in his lifetime.

Aging does well for many things, not so for others.


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## Enthusiast

^^^ Both K595 and the Coronation are not among my favourites. I particularly love nearly all of them from K543 onwards until those last two. I could always change my mind about those two, of course!


----------



## THGra

Beethoven 4
Rachmaninov 2
Tchaikovsky
Shostakovich 2
Prokofiev 2
Beethoven 5
Mozart 21
Grieg
Mozart 20
Schumann

But ten...'s too small a number...there are so many more favourites


----------



## Guest

I saw this in Munich last month. Based on the audience reaction, it was the biggest hit of the night. Since hearing it, it's become one of my favourite piano concertos.






Here's another favourite, Lutosławski's piano concerto:






And one more favourite:






GOsh the Ligeti concerto is just so _cute!!!!_ Love it.

Furrer: Piano Concerto
Eötvös: Cap-Ko
Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 6
Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 2
Dillon: Piano Concerto 'Andromeda'
Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 16
Chin: Piano Concerto


----------



## Bwv 1080

Ligeti
Lutoslawski
Carter
Bartok 2
Schoenberg
Wuorinen 3
Ponce 2
Schnittke Cto for Piano & Strings
Messiaen Les Canyons
Mozart K 271


----------



## Enthusiast

shirime said:


> I saw this in Munich last month. Based on the audience reaction, it was the biggest hit of the night. Since hearing it, it's become one of my favourite piano concertos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another favourite, Lutosławski's piano concerto:
> 
> And one more favourite: GOsh the Ligeti concerto is just so _cute!!!!_ Love it.
> 
> Furrer: Piano Concerto
> Eötvös: Cap-Ko
> Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 6
> Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 2
> Dillon: Piano Concerto 'Andromeda'
> Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 16
> Chin: Piano Concerto


An interesting list (with a couple pieces I don't like very much) ... but do you really think all those to be "better" than all the Classical, Romantic and Modern (between the wars) greats (except Mozart 16)? Fair enough if you do, of course, and coming up with a mere Top 10 is impossible anyway. I found it impossible to ditch so many works that have given me decades of pleasure and meaning. I guess what I am asking is whether your list is "the ten piano concertos that are interesting me most at the moment" (why do we never ask these questions in that way?) or is really an attempt at the best ever. No criticism: just interest.


----------



## PlaySalieri

shirime said:


> I saw this in Munich last month. Based on the audience reaction, it was the biggest hit of the night. Since hearing it, it's become one of my favourite piano concertos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another favourite, Lutosławski's piano concerto:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one more favourite:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GOsh the Ligeti concerto is just so _cute!!!!_ Love it.
> 
> Furrer: Piano Concerto
> Eötvös: Cap-Ko
> Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 6
> Finnissy: Piano Concerto no. 2
> Dillon: Piano Concerto 'Andromeda'
> Mozart: Piano Concerto no. 16
> Chin: Piano Concerto


Mozart 16!!!!

and no K466 K503 etc


----------



## joen_cph

Bwv 1080 said:


> Ligeti
> Lutoslawski
> *Carter*
> Bartok 2
> Schoenberg
> *Wuorinen 3*
> Ponce 2
> Schnittke Cto for Piano & Strings
> Messiaen Les Canyons
> Mozart K 271


Nice items. I'm finding Carter's very difficult to get into though, I've only heard Oppens/Gielen, but the Wait or the Lateiner recording might reveal it differently ... Haven't heard Wuorinen's.


----------



## Guest

Enthusiast said:


> An interesting list (with a couple pieces I don't like very much) ... but do you really think all those to be "better" than all the Classical, Romantic and Modern (between the wars) greats (except Mozart 16)? Fair enough if you do, of course, and coming up with a mere Top 10 is impossible anyway. I found it impossible to ditch so many works that have given me decades of pleasure and meaning. I guess what I am asking is whether your list is "the ten piano concertos that are interesting me most at the moment" (why do we never ask these questions in that way?) or is really an attempt at the best ever. No criticism: just interest.


They are all piano concertos I personally consider to be the best in the repertoire. New ones will be added later when they are composed, of course. The repertoire is constantly expanding. There are many concertos I enjoy by these and other composers that haven't made the list. The list I've posted has not changed much as what I consider 'beat ever' since around 2015, except for the replacement of a Schoenberg concerto with a Zimmermann concerto recently.


----------



## Guest

stomanek said:


> Mozart 16!!!!
> 
> and no K466 K503 etc


16 is absolutely wonderful.


----------



## PlaySalieri

shirime said:


> 16 is absolutely wonderful.


OK maybe I have missed something - will have a listen this afternoon. I know someone else who thinks 16 is the best Mozart concerto - I have personally rated it in the past with some of the early concerti 6, 8, 11 and 18. I know that some critics discussing the PCs dont even mention no 16.


----------



## Guest

stomanek said:


> OK maybe I have missed something - will have a listen this afternoon. I know someone else who thinks 16 is the best Mozart concerto - I have personally rated it in the past with some of the early concerti 6, 8, 11 and 18. I know that some critics discussing the PCs dont even mention no 16.


Interesting! I didn't realise it was ever unpopular. I think it's a particularly outstanding work because of the rather playful way in which certain phrases, harmonies and even time signatures are pitted against one another with little warning. It's absolute madness how many musical 'non-sequiturs' are in there, but Mozart pulls it off with such a playful energy and such a strong grasp of the craft of composition that we can accept it. If it were a less experienced composer trying to pull of something like this, it may sound extremely disjointed and directionless, possibly even jarring and confusing structurally.


----------



## Enthusiast

shirime said:


> They are all piano concertos I personally consider to be the best in the repertoire. New ones will be added later when they are composed, of course. The repertoire is constantly expanding. There are many concertos I enjoy by these and other composers that haven't made the list. The list I've posted has not changed much as what I consider 'beat ever' since around 2015, except for the replacement of a Schoenberg concerto with a Zimmermann concerto recently.


Interesting. So, in general, you feel that as we progress our music becomes greater and greater? I think your approach to this is a lot more concerned with what the composer is doing technically than mine is (which is not hard) whereas my musical taste is all about what the music does to me (what all those techniques deliver). I presume (I may be wrong!) that you would not agree that this difference explains the difference in our rankings of the music of the past? Sorry, but if you play a ranking game these are the questions that come into my mind!


----------



## Dimace

joen_cph said:


> There are some boring recordings out there, but the Proms live recording of the Busoni concerto with Donohoe/Elder is electrifying:


For me not only the best recording of this concerto, but also, as I have previously written, maybe the best concerto in human history. Cheers to beautiful Denmark!


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## PlaySalieri

shirime said:


> Interesting! I didn't realise it was ever unpopular. I think it's a particularly outstanding work because of the rather playful way in which certain phrases, harmonies and even time signatures are pitted against one another with little warning. It's absolute madness how many musical 'non-sequiturs' are in there, but Mozart pulls it off with such a playful energy and such a strong grasp of the craft of composition that we can accept it. If it were a less experienced composer trying to pull of something like this, it may sound extremely disjointed and directionless, possibly even jarring and confusing structurally.


It's not unpopular as such - but the really famous concerto tend to overshadow it and a number of others. I did listen to the Perahia rec today and it probably better than I have given it credit.


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## EdwardBast

Since "greatest" is meaningless to me I've chosen a different standard: Ten I would currently be excited to hear live:

Bartok 2
Bartok 3
Prokofiev 1
Prokofiev 2
Schnittke (Piano and Strings)
Barber
Shostakovich 2
Stravinsky 
Rachmaninoff 3
CPE Bach Wq 23 in D minor


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## Guest

Enthusiast said:


> Interesting. So, in general, you feel that as we progress our music becomes greater and greater? I think your approach to this is a lot more concerned with what the composer is doing technically than mine is (which is not hard) whereas my musical taste is all about what the music does to me (what all those techniques deliver). I presume (I may be wrong!) that you would not agree that this difference explains the difference in our rankings of the music of the past? Sorry, but if you play a ranking game these are the questions that come into my mind!


No I don't think music gets 'greater' over the course of history, but I do think there are piano concertos from more recent times which are much more to my taste since Mozart. To make things a little bit more fair I could have swapped a Finnissy concerto with the Schumann....... or maybe the Schoenberg........ Basically I'm all about how the music sounds, in the end. Especially when it comes to Mozart's wacky 16th concerto!


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## Torkelburger

Ten PCs I would be very excited to hear live right now would be:

Rawsthorne 1
Britten
Vaughan Williams
Martinu for 2 pnos
Shchedrin 3
Stravinsky
Schoenberg
Lutoslawski
Persichetti
Corigliano

Runners-up: Liebermann, Carter, Beaser, Rautavaara 1


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## Enthusiast

shirime said:


> No I don't think music gets 'greater' over the course of history, but I do think there are piano concertos from more recent times which are much more to my taste since Mozart. To make things a little bit more fair I could have swapped a Finnissy concerto with the Schumann....... or maybe the Schoenberg........ *Basically I'm all about how the music sounds, in the end.* Especially when it comes to Mozart's wacky 16th concerto!


I do think it is interesting to hear what we each look for in music - the qualities we each most focus on. I am not sure that many of us are that conscious of that but maybe it is just about finding the right language to talk about it in?


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## Guest

Enthusiast said:


> I do think it is interesting to hear what we each look for in music - the qualities we each most focus on. I am not sure that many of us are that conscious of that but maybe it is just about finding the right language to talk about it in?


Dictionaries help! I think the best way to talk about music is just to explain as best and as clearly as we can what makes a piece of music stand out as an interesting piece of music. I try to do that, at any rate. There's always something highly inventive (and perhaps even experimental!) going on underneath the surface of music we like the sound of.


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## Enthusiast

Yeah, no - I was thinking whether it might be possible to have a thread that discusses what it is that makes a piece stand out for each of us but, I don't know, I ended up thinking it would be hard to get to interesting insights. Somehow, I knew you would be conscious of and able to articulate what appeals to you! I'll continue to think if there might be a question that would help open it out and avoid simple descriptions of favourite works (which we already have many threads about).


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## Guest

Enthusiast said:


> Yeah, no - I was thinking whether it might be possible to have a thread that discusses what it is that makes a piece stand out for each of us but, I don't know, I ended up thinking it would be hard to get to interesting insights. Somehow, I knew you would be conscious of and able to articulate what appeals to you! I'll continue to think if there might be a question that would help open it out and avoid simple descriptions of favourite works (which we already have many threads about).


I think all it comes down to is that different people like to express their love of music in different ways. For me, I like to be able to talk about specific things in the music that I like, many people (including myself) like to discuss interpretation in detail, for others it might be the kind of emotions or images the music may evoke, or just how one personally connects with music.


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## Ras

*Some of my favorite piano concertos* - (only one by each composer - with some of my favorite recordings).

*Haydn Hob. XVIII:11 in D major* - Andreas Staier, Brautigam,

*Mozart 25* - Buchbinder on fortepiano with Harnoncourt's period orchestra on Sony.

*Beethoven 5 "Emperor"*, - Glenn Gould/Stokowski, R. Serkin/Bernstein on Sony - on period instruments: Immerseel on Sony or Melvyn Tan/Norrington on Virgin.

*Chopin 1* - Argerich/Dutoit - Barenboim/Nelsons

*Brahms 1* - Barenboim/Barbirolli, Gilels/Jochum, Buchbinder/Zubin Mehta,

*Tchaikovsky 1* - Ashkenazy (Decca), Pletnev (Virgin),

*Rachmaninov 2* - K. Zimerman with Ozawa on DG, Lang Lang/Gergiev on DG,

*Bryars: Piano Concerto "Solway Canal"* - Ralph van Raat's world premiere recording on Naxos.


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## Gallus

Schoenberg, Bartok 3, Scriabin, Grieg, basically any of Mozart's from 9 onwards....too many truly great piano concertos have been written to choose a top 10 from them.


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## ojoncas

Barely anyone mentioning Dvorak’s, I’m quite surprised!


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## Enthusiast

^^^ I like it! It is not unlike the great Schumann. Aimard's recording with Harnoncourt is excellent (and gives me the chance to write that unusual phrase "better than Richter's, I think"). But it is hardly one of the greatest 10, is it? Not when it is so hard to choose between many of the Mozarts, the Beethovens, the Brahms, the Schumann and Bartok and Prokofiev and Ligeti? It is a little overlong and is not even one of Dvorak's best pieces. I prefer it to the Tchaikovskys and probably the Rachmaninovs but think that is down to my taste and that Tchaik 1 and Rach 2 and 3 are probably greater works.


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## DavidA

ojoncas said:


> Barely anyone mentioning Dvorak's, I'm quite surprised!


Not a great concerto as it is written by a violinist for a pianist with two left hands! Far better stick to the violin and cello concertos he wrote. But for the piano concerto see Richter / Kleiber.


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## ojoncas

Enthusiast said:


> ^^^ I like it! It is not unlike the great Schumann. Aimard's recording with Harnoncourt is excellent (and gives me the chance to write that unusual phrase "better than Richter's, I think"). But it is hardly one of the greatest 10, is it? Not when it is so hard to choose between many of the Mozarts, the Beethovens, the Brahms, the Schumann and Bartok and Prokofiev and Ligeti? It is a little overlong and is not even one of Dvorak's best pieces. I prefer it to the Tchaikovskys and probably the Rachmaninovs but think that is down to my taste and that Tchaik 1 and Rach 2 and 3 are probably greater works.


It's not at all in my top 10, but I usually see a lot of diversity in tastes, here, in 'Tops' discussion. 
I thought I would see more than 1 or 2 people mentioning it.

I love it though! Charming first movement.


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## happyclassicalfeet

That's a list now


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## happyclassicalfeet

10. Mozart 17
9. Mozart 22
8. Saint-Saens 2
7. Schumann
6. Tchaikovsky 1
5. Rachmaninov 2
4. Mozart 25
3. Beethoven 5
2. Mozart 20
1. Mozart 23


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## UniversalTuringMachine

I will give a Top 10 list in "versus" form (right hand side is overrated)

1. Mozart 20 = Mozart 23
2. Beethoven 4 > Beethoven 5
3. Schumann > Grieg
4. Brahms 1 > Brahms 2
5. Rachmaninoff 2 > Rachmaninoff 3
6. Prokofiev 2 > Prokofiev 3
7. Ravel > Tchaikovsky 1
8. Gershwin > Shostakovich 1
9. Mendelssohn 1 > Chopin 1
10. Saint Seans 2 > Chopin 2


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## Kilgore Trout

Dean Gneixendorf Music – A Winter's Journey
Bartok 2
Henze 2
Hindemith
Toch
Lutoslawski
Xenakis Keqrops
Mintchev
Schaeffer 3
Messiaen Des canyons aux étoiles…


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## Andante Largo

Castelnuovo-Tedesco - Piano Concerto No. 2 in F major, Op. 92
Chopin - Piano Concerto No. 1 in E mimor, Op. 11
Chopin - Piano Concerto No. 2 in F minor, Op. 21
Dobrzyński - Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in A flat major, Op. 2
Moszkowski - Piano Concerto No. 2 in E major, Op. 59
Paderewski - Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 17
Perosi - Piano Concerto in A minor
Respighi - Piano Concerto in A minor
Rheinberger - Piano Concerto in A flat major, Op. 94
Żeleński - Piano Concerto in E flat major, Op. 60


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## Allegro Con Brio

Roughly ranked (and omitting Bach’s keyboard concerti):

Rachmaninoff 3
Brahms 2
Beethoven 5
Brahms 1
Rachmaninoff 2
Prokofiev 2
Moszkowski 2
Schumann
Saint-Saëns 2
Ravel

Honorable mentions: Hummel 2 and 3, Bartok 2 and 3, Chopin 1, Atterberg, Beethoven 4, Prokofiev 3


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## Wilhelm Theophilus

Question: Top ten greatest piano concertos ever?

Answer: Mozart.


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