# Is it incredibly uncommon to enjoy classical music without knowing an instrument?



## UnauthorizedRosin (May 5, 2016)

Hello. I've noticed that practically everyone I met that have a strong liking towards classical music can play at least one classical instrument, including myself. I am wondering if there's a good portion of people who listen to classical actually don't know how to play anything, and if liking classical music a result of knowing an instrument or if wanting to learn an instrument is a result of liking classical music, which is most common I mean. Is taking a liking towards it because you play an instrument? Or did you like classical before, then want to learn to play things like it so you pick up an instrument? Most of my family likes classical music despite myself being the only one who can play an instrument. Although my mother only started to like it really when I started playing violin at age ten, while I liked it pretty well before learning, I only started to get incredibly into it as my favorite music genre when I got somewhat proficient at violin. And you? How about you? What do you think? Thank you. (Sorry if I posted this in a wrong section or did something wrong in general; my first post and to add I'm not used to this set up kind of sites.)


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

No, not incredibly uncommon, nor even uncommon at all. 

I play crummy piano myself.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> I play crummy piano myself.


Same here. Except in my case it's the playing, not the piano, that's crummy.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

amfortas said:


> Same here. Except in my case it's the playing, not the piano, that's crummy.


Nope, for me it's all the fault of the piano(s) I've tried to play.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I had a few years of piano lessons, but I stopped well before I ever liked classical music. My wife and daughter both play string instruments, and both love classical music. My son doesn't play and doesn't enjoy classical music. I don't think there's a strong correlation, but it's possible that playing for a number of years could increase the likelihood that someone will enjoy classical music.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

If it's uncommon let's us revel in being uncommon, but I doubt that it is.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

No clue. As a whole, we're a pretty difficult demographic to put a finger on. There are all kinds of ways to be exposed to classical music. It's not really one genre, as it spans a huge time period and numerous cultures.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I can play my stereo.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I like all kinds of music, but play no instrument(s). My admiration is boundless for those who do, and do it well, especially those who can play quite unrelated instruments with seeming facility.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I know many people that love classical music, and can't play a note in any instrument.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

I would say that if you like classical music then you are more likely than not to have some degree of musical training, and I would feel pretty confident in that statement. Similarly I would say that if you like classical music you are more likely than not to be above the median income earner for your nation than below it. It's not because lower income people can't enjoy it, or those who can't read music, but for a myriad of reasons "high art" tends to be enjoyed more by those with more specialized knowledge - who in turn tend to be among the wealthier classes as opposed to poorer.

In neither case would I say these correlations are proscriptive. Essentialist thought is passé these days.


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## CDs (May 2, 2016)

I don't play any instrument but love listening to them.


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## UnauthorizedRosin (May 5, 2016)

I think people misunderstood what I was asking. Looking back at the wording of my question, it's probably a fault on my part. If I was saying there was a correlation between knowing an liking classical music and playing an instrument, I wouldn't say it was due to someone's knowledge. In fact I'm kind of not very intelligent at all myself and I like it. I was asking opinions if there was one, and if there is what the reason would be. If there was a correlation, I would say there would be a slight one due to either someone playing an instrument then, for lack of better way of describing it, realizing classical music exists? Possibly. Or alternatively, you like classical music so much you want to play some yourself so you go learn an instrument. (More likely, I suppose. I picked up violin because I thought it would be fun to play classical pieces myself, and if someone disliked classical music I don't think they'd want to start playing something they don't like in the first place.) And that's in the case a correlation, since I'm not sure one exists thus the purpose of this question. Also, would you mind defining 'proscriptive' for me, in the context of your sentence? I tried to look it up, but dictionaries were unclear.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

There've been similar TC threads over the years. Instrument and/or classical music listening motives, appreciations, are all over the map. You can't point to a significant or statistically astounding correlation.

Oh, maybe one. Listening is easier than playing. :lol:


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

A majority of classical music listeners probably have some kind of musical training, but I doubt it's _incredibly_ uncommon.

One of the biggest modern/contemporary classical fans I know can't read a note of music, actually.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

isorhythm said:


> A majority of classical music listeners probably have some kind of musical training, but I doubt it's _incredibly_ uncommon.


You really think it is a majority? If so, that must substantially hurt CM's popularity. So many people out there have no musical training.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

> Or alternatively, you like classical music so much you want to play some yourself so you go learn an instrument. (More likely, I suppose. I picked up violin because I thought it would be fun to play classical pieces


This applied to me as a child. I took piano lessons from age 6 - 11 but made very little headway, because I have stubby fingers, poor hand-eye coordination and little talent! I can still read music, kind of, but I haven't played for many years. I still love classical music though. Played by someone else, obviously.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I am nuts about classical music and can't even play a recorder. 

I can play Chopsticks on a piano though. :lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Florestan said:


> I am nuts about classical music and can't even play a recorder.
> 
> I can play *Chopsticks on a piano *though. :lol:


Twas my Bro's sole contribution to our short-lived Family Ensemble, 4-hand Chopsticks with Mom, Dad on Sax, Me on Cornet. Helluva genre.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Truly great works can be enjoyed without a knowledge of any music theory, also explains why arrangements work wonderfully well.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Vaneyes said:


> . You can't point to a significant or statistically astounding correlation.
> 
> Oh, maybe one. Listening is easier than playing. :lol:


Depends on what you are listening to, I find it very difficult to listen to some modern "music" but I think playing it would be easier eg scratch away at any old thing and someone will say* Magnificent *
By the way I hope you don't mind me saying your stance is a bit wrong, just lower your hands an straighten up a bit.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Not as long one can be placed in queue for instrument lessons and then never hear from them again


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

isorhythm said:


> A majority of classical music listeners probably have some kind of musical training, but I doubt it's _incredibly_ uncommon.
> 
> One of the biggest modern/contemporary classical fans I know can't read a note of music, actually.


This is the one that baffles me more. I understand that a lot of WCM fans can't read music, but it perplexes me because learning to read music really isn't that hard, and it has always accentuated my own listening experience.

Now that I can read conductor's scores easily enough, it's like I can hear "everything" that's going on at once, and my listening experiences are way more intense than they were before that point. So color me confused at all of the people out there who, at least as far as I can tell, can't hear a lot of the parts because they don't know what to listen for. Even when I'm not reading the scores, I seem to hear way more in familiar pieces because I'm thinking about all of the different parts.

It is also perplexing to a certain extent that so many WCM listeners don't care to learn an instrument. Is it self doubt? Something else? Music is basically my main hobby, and I'm kind of impulsive in looking for anything that could improve the experience.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I play a few musical instruments - guitar, flute, saxophone, Scottish bagpipes and drums. I can read music, including full orchestral scores, and I have read extensively about my favourite artists including both volumes of Cosima Wagner's diaries when I first got into Wagner (there's a bunch of hours I'll never get back). But I would have to say that I can't think it's enhanced my enjoyment of the music I love at all. It has increased my understanding and appreciation of the technical side of things but the music I love, I loved before I knew how to follow it on a score. Personally I'm not sure it is essential to understand the technical side of music to enjoy the visceral and emotional impact of it.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I've taken Piano Lessons on and off through the years, usually until Family members beg me to stop. I love Classical Music despite my personal ineptitude


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## Jean (Mar 19, 2016)

Florestan said:


> I am nuts about classical music and can't even play a recorder.
> 
> I can play Chopsticks on a piano though. :lol:


:lol: same here


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Florestan said:


> I can play Chopsticks on a piano though. :lol:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Well... I used to play a really bad guitar (non-classical)... and an even worse trombone back in grade school... but I love classical music in spite of lacking any musical ability.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

It is also perplexing to a certain extent that so many WCM listeners don't care to learn an instrument. Is it self doubt? Something else? Music is basically my main hobby, and I'm kind of impulsive in looking for anything that could improve the experience.

I'm a visual artist... a painter... so my creative outlet/career is not music. Learning a musical instrument would certainly devour a lot of the time I spend painting. I suspect the majority of those who are art lovers or avid readers don't feel compelled to learn painting or sculpture or poetry and more than I feel the need to pick up an instrument.


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## clockworkmurderer (Apr 15, 2016)

With a busy life, I find it satisfying enough to devote an hour or two of listening time each day and more if I can get it. I have a cheesy keyboard but it has sat alone in the corner for months because I'm usually doing other things. I should really force time into my schedule with which to practice. However, I also don't think that it's necessary to have any kind of musical training to enjoy classical music. 

I have not found even one person in real life that has my level of interest in classical music, musically inclined or not. I've talked to plenty of people that will say they "like it," but when I try to start a conversation about it, they're lost after any composer aside from Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart is mentioned. I'm actually somewhat in despair of ever meeting a real life friend in the world of classical.


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## Guest (May 7, 2016)

We had a piano in the house from when I was about 8. I could do 'Chopsticks'. Once I went to secondary school and was taught the basics of Every Good Boy from being in the school choir, I was also able to pull out Bach's Prelude No 1 from our piano seat and play the first 30-odd bars. I had no lessons until I was about 28, getting as far as Initial Grade!

I didn't start seriously collecting CM until I was about 45, although I had been exposed to it from an early age and had three or four albums of my own (The Planets, Beethoven's Pastoral, The Four Seasons (Malgoire/Holloway), Carmina Burana, Peer Gynt Suite).

Make of that what you will. I think I liked CM before I learned to play, but liking it didn't prompt me to learn.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

clockworkmurderer said:


> With a busy life, I find it satisfying enough to devote an hour or two of listening time each day and more if I can get it. I have a cheesy keyboard but it has sat alone in the corner for months because I'm usually doing other things. I should really force time into my schedule with which to practice. However, I also don't think that it's necessary to have any kind of musical training to enjoy classical music.
> 
> I have not found even one person in real life that has my level of interest in classical music, musically inclined or not. I've talked to plenty of people that will say they "like it," but when I try to start a conversation about it, they're lost after any composer aside from Bach, Beethoven, or Mozart is mentioned. I'm actually somewhat in despair of ever meeting a real life friend in the world of classical.


We're real, this is life, we can be your friends if you're nice enough, and we not only love classical music but are acquainted with heaps more of it than B, B, & M.  We may be quite uncommon, but there are still a lot of people in the world. :tiphat:


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## clockworkmurderer (Apr 15, 2016)

Lukecash12 said:


> We're real, this is life, we can be your friends if you're nice enough, and we not only love classical music but are acquainted with heaps more of it than B, B, & M.  We may be quite uncommon, but there are still a lot of people in the world. :tiphat:


Thank you! I appreciate this forum already even after only a couple of weeks of membership. I've learned many things and even had some head scratching moments. I look forward to continuing to post and I'll try to be nice about it. 

You're exactly right though, this is real life. Sometimes I just get caught up in a spirit of lament. Duly noted.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I could never wrote a novel or even short story but love fiction.

I tried learning piano as an adult but failed - and anyway did not think the amount of labour involved would make the result worth the while for me - a tenth rate adult learner pianist - so decided to devote my energy to listening and I'm glad to have done that.
To those who have the patience to play hours of mind numbing scales and polishing pieces etc so that we can enjoy - I have the greatest respect and admiration.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I grew up with a piano in the house, now I have one one of my own in my house.
I do play regularly and have some pupils.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The biggest asset for musical enjoyment is being a good listener. But for anyone who has struggled to master a musical instrument, this experience will definitely add to ones appreciation for the dedication and accomplishments of the professional musicians performing at a world class level. It's an incredibly difficult and challenging way of life.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

I didn't ever have any interest in classical music until I played Mars in orchestra in 10th grade, and this led me to reconsider my opinions on classical music, which I had previously thought was mind numbing and drawn out music. Many of the people I know who like classical music are performers as well, but I do know some people who like it that are not themselves musicians. More surprising to me is the number of people who are heavily involved in performing classical music but have little interest in listening to it.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

I have no idea of how uncommon it is to enjoy classical music without being grounded with instrument training. Although I had been subjected to a few piano lessons and had played clarinet while in high school, I'm not sure what influence either had on my interest in classical music. Before any musical training, I had already been drawn to it through exposure to my family's recordings (78 rpm then) of the popular classical pieces everybody likes (Barcarolle from the "Tales of Hoffman," Dukas' " "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" and suchlike) and was pretty well primed by my teens. I believe that exposure and access are the principle means people learn to appreciate classical, or any music.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I really do not know. I can only speak from my modest experiences and anecdotally.

It appears to me that musical training effects the type of music a person likes to listen to. I have met many fine musicians who hate modern music with a passion. It just seems to me that the better the musician the more likely he is to have very diverse musical tastes.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

stomanek said:


> To those who have the patience to play hours of mind numbing scales and polishing pieces etc so that we can enjoy - I have the greatest respect and admiration.


Actually, the "Hanon method" is on it's way out the window now. See why. It is far more useful to practice with parallel set exercises and use your repertoire itself to expand and improve upon your technique. Btw, the same is true with other instruments.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Lukecash12 said:


> Actually, the "Hanon method" is on it's way out the window now. See why. It is far more useful to practice with parallel set exercises and use your repertoire itself to expand and improve upon your technique. Btw, the same is true with other instruments.


I wasnt necessarily thinking of the piano - my teen age son is an advanced violinist and every high calibre teacher he has studied with advises 2 hours of scales and exercises before the pieces - when he is pressed for time he dispenses with this routine or compresses it down to 30 minutes - and his quality does slip when he does this and his teacher always knows he is down on practice when he comes to his weekly lesson.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

We had a piano at home, my younger sister was learning to play it. I can play only with one hand something unchallenging; black keys are only for beauty there anyway.
Music making or instrument learning has nothing to do with my interest in music.I don't even like to sing. I was conscripted into my school choir when I was about 8. It didn't last. I'd sing the first song sometimes, but afterwards only bridges. Few weeks later I deserted the choir without a challenge. My sister gained more extensive musical knowledge, besides playing the piano she sang in the choir as well. And people might say, that I still benefited somehow from the musical instrument around or at least my sister's playing. Wrong. Most of it was painfull to listen. I was put off _Für Elise _ sonata for life for instance. LvB Moonlight sonata fared a little better, and that's only because I was often not there when she tortured moonlight out of piano. I can listen to it in moderation. And the irony of the story is my sister doesn't listen to classical music at all now or didn't even then and I'm the one lapping it up. My best friend with whom I attend concerts doesn't know any musical instruments either.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Marinera said:


> We had a piano at home, my younger sister was learning to play it. I can play only with one hand something unchallenging; black keys are only for beauty there anyway.
> Music making or instrument learning has nothing to do with my interest in music.I don't even like to sing. I was conscripted into my school choir when I was about 8. It didn't last. I'd sing the first song sometimes, but afterwards only bridges. Few weeks later I deserted the choir without a challenge. My sister gained more extensive musical knowledge, besides playing the piano she sang in the choir as well. And people might say, that I still benefited somehow from the musical instrument around or at least my sister's playing. Wrong. Most of it was painfull to listen. I was put off _Für Elise _ sonata for life for instance. LvB Moonlight sonata fared a little better, and that's only because I was often not there when she tortured moonlight out of piano. I can listen to it in moderation. And the irony of the story is my sister doesn't listen to classical music at all now or didn't even then and I'm the one lapping it up. My best friend with whom I attend concerts doesn't know any musical instruments either.


The essence of what you say here is true. I have seen many young classical musicians listening to pop on their MP3 players. So I agree - a classical music education does not necessarily lead to a lifetime passionate interest in classical music. It will expose young people to classical music at an age when perhaps those who dont study an instrument are deprived - but sooner or later - as in my case - if you are ripe for it - classical music will find you whether you can play a note or not. And if you are not ripe for it - it doesnt matter that you can play all of Beethoven's piano sonatas - you will find another interest.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Speaking from personal experience again, you can love classical music very much, and experience no urge whatsover to learn to play or sing or compose music. I think there are musicians and there's audience. Two may overlap to some extent, but in my opinion the bulk of the audience only naturally should consist of those who are not musicians, how else could we experience and enjoy music if not by listening to those who can play and compose. I am firmly in the listeners camp.


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