# "Motif" vs. "Motive"



## freixas

I'm finding people here and elsewhere talking about musical "motives" (e.g. one web site picked at random: http://www.key-notes.com/difference-between-motives-and-phrases.html). It sounds weird to me as I am more familiar with "motif".

On another web site (http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/motif-vs-motive.1346126/), I find this comment: "I've never actually seen it written as 'motive' and I've studied classical music for almost 4 years, even in the dictionary usage notes it uses 'motif'". This comment seems weird because I keep seeing "motive" used, Search for "musical motive" and you'll get a lot of examples.

So, are these two considered interchangeable, not just by the dictionary, but by actual usage among musicians? Is either preferred? "musical motive" generates 1.2M results in Google, while "musical motif" gets about .5M.

The results are _quite_ different if I search for "art motif' (166M) vs. "art motive" (.8M).


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## joen_cph

As a foreigner, I actually always thought that a "motif" should be understood as a thematic cell, whereas a "motive" is the reason behind an act. My main reference is visual art terminology, however.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

The _Oxford English Dictionary_ seems to give precedence to "motive" over "motif", giving its first surviving usage in print in an book of 1866...

*Motive* (b) Mus. = MOTIVO, MOTIF

1866 ENGEL, Nat. Mus. ii. p82 "Motive is the term which may most properly be applied to the shortest musical idea"

When you look up motif, all you get is:

*Motif:* Obsolete form of MOTIVE


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## EdwardBast

Confirming the above: Synonymous, with motive being more common among contemporary English speakers.


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## Woodduck

joen_cph said:


> As a foreigner, I actually always thought that a "motif" should be understood as a thematic cell, whereas a "motive" is the reason behind an act. My main reference is visual art terminology, however.


I prefer to use "motif" for visual, musical, or literary art. I think my dislike of "motive" comes from seeing "leitmotif" translated as "leading motive." Ghastly.


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## Pugg

joen_cph said:


> As a foreigner, I actually always thought that a "motif" should be understood as a thematic cell, whereas a "motive" is the reason behind an act. My main reference is visual art terminology, however.


I second this :tiphat:


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