# A Beethoven piano sonata called "Der Vampyr"



## hofvendahl (Jan 28, 2013)

Does anyone know why Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 13 in E-flat Major "Quasi una fantasia" Op. 27, No. 1 (sometimes apparently) is called "The Vampire" (Der Vampyr)? I have searched on Google but have not found a thing.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

i think someone is joking with you


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ravndal said:


> i think someone is joking with you


Check out tracks 44-47 on this bargain set of Beethoven Sonatas by Jeno Jando...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A1BC3B2/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Check out tracks 44-47 on this bargain set of Beethoven Sonatas by Jeno Jando...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A1BC3B2/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk


Errr... whhhahat?

Why is it called "Der Vampyr"?

On the other hand, i wouldn't buy Beethoven played by Jeno Jando


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

This is surely not an original title...therefore it doesn't matter.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I did not believe it,so I've been checking around and altho' i've never heard such a title in all my 150 years of listening you are right ,it is Sonata No.13.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ravndal said:


> On the other hand, i wouldn't buy Beethoven played by Jeno Jando


I think the Jeno Jando set (at this price!) would be a very good deal for somebody just getting into Beethoven. Jando's performances are polished and clean, very transparent, if a bit on the "exact" side and a little dry. Not really bad at all, and the recordings are just fine. Nobody's ultimate favorite set, but pretty good and now super-cheap.

And where else can you get the "Vampyr" sonata?


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Jando is great at some pieces, but he is too much of a metronome for Beethoven. So many other great and cheap beethoven cycles to buy


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Beethoven originally wrote a piano sonata called "Der Vampyr, but he destroyed it because he thought
it sucked !











:lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

superhorn said:


> Beethoven originally wrote a piano sonata called "Der Vampyr, but he destroyed it because he thought it sucked!


That was SO BAD that I went looking for a "Dislike" button but couldn't find one. Anyway, I've ordered one from Amazon...


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

superhorn said:


> Beethoven originally wrote a piano sonata called "Der Vampyr, but he destroyed it because he thought
> it sucked !
> 
> :lol:


LOL good one, I actually didn't get it until I saw the comment below yours.


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## barrywolfe (Dec 9, 2013)

The name is recent and is the result of the use of the sonata in a play or movie that gave it that name.


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## barrywolfe (Dec 9, 2013)

The name is recent and comes from a play or movie that gave it the name.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I listened to part of that sonata online, because I was curious what it sounded like. Wasn't scary, actually was pretty upbeat and happy.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I listened to part of that sonata online, because I was curious what it sounded like. Wasn't scary, actually was pretty upbeat and happy.


I'm sure vampires have their happier days. You can't mope around, listening to _The Cure_ every day.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

*The moon lights the streets I roam*

I think vampires are chronically depressed. These movies like _Twilight_ are highly misrepresentative... Yea, I've met a few vampires in my day. I might even be one.... How do you think I'm this wise and still young and handsome?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

The fashion for giving nicknames to things seems to have disappeared over the last century. I don't see what's wrong with it in a way, if it's a good nickname it will catch on, if not nobody will use it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> This is surely not an original title...therefore it doesn't matter.


Neither of the Beethoven piano sonatas 13 or 14 (Op.27 nos. 1 & 2) are anything but "Sonata quasi una fantasia."

No other later assigned title for either has any validity whatsoever.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vesuvius said:


> I think vampires are chronically depressed. These movies like _Twilight_ are highly misrepresentative... Yea, I've met a few vampires in my day. I might even be one.... How do you think I'm this wise and still young and handsome?


Didn't it strike you as more than wrong that a Vampire, with all that preternatural ability, plays the simplest of ditties written to a very mid-moderate level of ability in the "Twilight" movie? Really, we should have a highly pyrotechnical piece while not even being able to see the creature's hands moving


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Neither of the Beethoven piano sonatas 13 or 14 (Op.27 nos. 1 & 2) are anything but "Sonata quasi una fantasia."
> 
> No other later assigned title for either has any validity whatsoever.


The title "Moonlight Sonata" was put on by some critic/poet after Beethoven died.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

starry said:


> The fashion for giving nicknames to things seems to have disappeared over the last century. I don't see what's wrong with it in a way, if it's a good nickname it will catch on, if not nobody will use it.


Do you write? Would you like a nickname attached to one of your works which was antithetical to both your aesthetic and intent catching on _because it was a 'good' nickname_?

Don't come crying to me if and when that happens, LOL.

Composers... *Name your pieces, because if you don't, someone else will.*


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Incidentally, I wish Erik Satie had given other composers' works nicknames.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Composers... *Name your pieces, because if you don't, someone else will.*


also...can't remember which is which when it's just a number.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Didn't it strike you as more than wrong that a Vampire, with all that preternatural ability, plays the simplest of ditties written to a very mid-moderate level of ability in the "Twilight" movie? Really, we should have a highly pyrotechnical piece while not even being able to see the creature's hands moving


That observation would require watching the movie - a possibility too horrific to contemplate. I hope you're not trying to rob the cradle. :lol:


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

PetrB said:


> Do you write? Would you like a nickname attached to one of your works which was antithetical to both your aesthetic and intent catching on _because it was a 'good' nickname_?
> 
> Don't come crying to me if and when that happens, LOL.
> 
> Composers... *Name your pieces, because if you don't, someone else will.*


It wouldn't catch on if it was antithetical. And if some read too much into a title at the expense of the music perhaps the problem is more the listeners who do that. I just think it may be a another way of looking at this rather than the standard _titles are bad_ approach.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

starry said:


> It wouldn't catch on if it was antithetical. And if some read too much into a title at the expense of the music perhaps the problem is more the listeners who do that. I just think it may be a another way of looking at this rather than the standard _titles are bad_ approach.


WHAT 'titles are bad,' approach? That doesn't come from me, anyway.

Titles are fine: nicknames given by others, "just not right"


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

PetrB said:


> WHAT 'titles are bad,' approach? That doesn't come from me, anyway.
> 
> Titles are fine: nicknames given by others, "just not right"


...sell your composition title to the highest bidder. 
Mmmm....Snickers Concerto in Gm


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

I meant titles in general not just titles given by composers. Those that get given names later tend to be already quite popular and the names reflect the fact that they have caught people's imagination.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Couac Addict said:


> ...sell your composition title to the highest bidder.
> Mmmm....Snickers Concerto in Gm


Yeh you can't guarrantee a composer will name a piece well. We don't really care anyway, if the music is average or worse it doesn't matter what they call it. Whereas, as I said, pieces that get names later tend to already be popular.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

starry said:


> I meant titles in general not just titles given by composers. Those that get given names later tend to be already quite popular and the names reflect the fact that they have caught people's imagination.


The problem is when those nicknames are treated like canon titles. Chopin never titled his 3rd Etude "Tristesse". If he had wanted to give it a more concrete title, he would have. It doesn't need that extra title. These critic instilled titles seem to be more ways to dictate how people will respond to the piece, to narrow the imaginative possibilities.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> Incidentally, I wish Erik Satie had given other composers' works nicknames.


One should really start a whole thread titled "Names that Erik Satie gave to other composers' works."

I ought to be quite a hoot, what with the hugely creative and funny crowd we have here.


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## Ostinato (Jun 24, 2009)

The nickname I find most irritating is "Elvira Madigan" for Mozart's Piano Concerto No 21. As if the association with a 1960s Swedish film somehow makes it more memorable or significant.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Ostinato said:


> The nickname I find most irritating is "Elvira Madigan" for Mozart's Piano Concerto No 21. As if the association with a 1960s Swedish film somehow makes it more memorable or significant.


Be grateful it wasn't used in or named after _Deep Throat_...


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

At least they don't do corporate endorsements like sporting arenas or some concert halls...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ostinato said:


> The nickname I find most irritating is "Elvira Madigan" for Mozart's Piano Concerto No 21. As if the association with a 1960s Swedish film somehow makes it more memorable or significant.


I'll take "Elvira Madigan" over any title like "Ocean Waves" or "Winter Wind" any day.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Most won't know _Elvira Madigan_ even refers to a film. It's a title that sounds graceful enough for the piece.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

starry said:


> Most won't know _Elvira Madigan_ even refers to a film. It's a title that sounds graceful enough for the piece.


...Better than "Suffocation," "Butterfly," or "Tristesse." -- yuck.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

starry said:


> Most won't know _Elvira Madigan_ even refers to a film. It's a title that sounds graceful enough for the piece.


Yes, I knew that nickname long before I had any idea where it came from, and it did indeed seem curiously apt, and also meaningless enough so as to allow for any interpretation of the music.

Such nicknames can indeed be dangerous things and might prejudice one against a piece of music, or irritate one with unwanted associations. I felt that way about the "Hunt" string quartet for ages.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I know Liszt had a piano sonata in 11 movements called _Frankenstein Meets the Werewolf_ but I didn't know Luigi was into the schlock horror stuff.

Anyone ever hear Schoenberg's _Hallowe'en 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers_ tone poem? Very moving stuff! :devil:


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Ostinato said:


> The nickname I find most irritating is "Elvira Madigan" for Mozart's Piano Concerto No 21. As if the association with a 1960s Swedish film somehow makes it more memorable or significant.


I remember seeing the film and later seeing recordings with the subtitle of Elvira Madigan on it and wondering wth?

But then I thought well, Pia Degermark was beautiful and so is Piano Concerto 21 so it bothers me less now.

View attachment 30243


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

brianvds said:


> Such nicknames can indeed be dangerous things and might prejudice one against a piece of music, or irritate one with unwanted associations. I felt that way about the "Hunt" string quartet for ages.


I've aways loved Mozart's La Chasse quartet even though I don't like hunting, the music is so fluent and melodic and it can feel that the music may have been easier for Mozart than some of the others from the Haydn set. The music is definitely the main thing. It's like judging a book by it's cover, it's better not to. But any name really makes a classical work stand out more from all those without names.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

It would actually be more authentic to call either 14 or 17 the _Barbara Ployer_ as they were written for that pianist to perform. And yet the sound of that name doesn't feel as nice as Elvira Madigan.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

After hearing Greenberg's lecture on Beethoven's Symphony No 2 (4th movement), I dread to think what nickname someone _might _have given it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> That was SO BAD that I went looking for a "Dislike" button but couldn't find one. Anyway, I've ordered one from Amazon...


It is cheap, but the software to hook it effectively up to TC is Very Costly


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kieran said:


> I know Liszt had a piano sonata in 11 movements called _Frankenstein Meets the Werewolf_ but I didn't know Luigi was into the schlock horror stuff.
> 
> Anyone ever hear Schoenberg's _Hallowe'en 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers_ tone poem? Very moving stuff! :devil:


Yes, but he was very young and oversensitive to criticism at the time: the piece was criticized as having _"...all the emotion and human content of a polymer hockey mask without anyone inside it"_ so he suppressed the work, though he did stay within the aesthetic of the Expressionist mode for many years to come.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Yes, but he was very young and oversensitive to criticism at the time: the piece was criticized as having _"...all the emotion and human content of a polymer hockey mask without anyone inside it"_ so he suppressed the work, though he did stay within the aesthetic of the Expressionist mode for many years to come.


That's true, but years later a manuscript was found in a murky, dusty crypt, with Schoenberg's handwriting all over it. It was solemnly called _*A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors Suite, for 12 pianos, a Squeaking Mouse, and a Leaking Foghorn.

*_DNA tests confirm the work was Schoeny's: he was so moved by the ending, his dried tears had stained the parchment...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kieran said:


> That's true, but years later a manuscript was found in a murky, dusty crypt, with Schoenberg's handwriting all over it. It was solemnly called _*A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors Suite, for 12 pianos, a Squeaking Mouse, and a Leaking Foghorn.
> 
> *_DNA tests confirm the work was Schoeny's: he was so moved by the ending, his dried tears had stained the parchment...


Well that discovered manuscript will not only be quick to be recorded, but will spawn dozens of doctoral candidate's thesis of musicologists in the making: I bet it is actually as late romantic as Webern's _Im Sommerwind_.

P.s. Did that foghorn leak, uh, fog, or what?


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Well that discovered manuscript will not only be quick to be recorded, but will spawn dozens of doctoral candidate's thesis of musicologists in the making: I bet it is actually as late romantic as Webern's _Im Sommerwind_.


It's more like Wagner's _Broken_ _Wind_...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kieran said:


> It's more like Wagner's _Broken_ _Wind_...


ah! you must be speaking of Wagner's lesser known "Zug mein Finger Idyll."


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