# Is Lohengrin an underrated opera?



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

True, its not the huge revolution that Das Rheingold
was, But i think its still a radical departure from operas
up to that time.
And its difference between it and Hollander and Tannhauser.
With its extended forms. Ethereal prelude and dramatic
dialogues, as in Act 2.
I think its a revolutionary work in its own way.
What do you think? 
Thanks


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I am not sure but I think Lohengrin and Tannhäuser used to be the most popular Wagner operas for most of the late 19th and throughout the 20th century. Probably partly, just because they were shorter, more accessible and far more often staged than the later ones and they are not as "dark" as Flying Dutchman. Partly, because they fit actually much better with idealized German romantic pictures of the middle ages (than e.g. the "Ring"), so they were quite popular in Germany (and, I guess, Austria). The preludes and the Wedding chorus/march became popular "hits".


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I think everything you said is true. In the dialogues of Ortrud and Telramund we're already hearing the mature Wagner's ability to follow musically the twists and turns of his characters' minds and emotions. Traditional "numbers" opera and music drama blend very comfortably in _Lohengrin. _The prelude is visionary, one of Wagner's most inspired pieces and, I'd say, one of the greatest orchestral works of the Romantic period.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

That never occurred to me at all. It has gorgeous dramatic music and interesting tensions with the characters. Ortrud is a bad bad girl. I think some of it contains some of the most thrilling music I ever heard. I saw it here and it blew me away live. If he only wrote it Wagner would be well known.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

In Lohengrin Wagner is moving even further from "set pieces." That long ensemble at the end of Act 2 isn't just characters either emoting one emotion or displaying different ones: it's the collective expression of the doubts sowed in Elsa's mind.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

It is also interesting that Ortrud gets one brief aria if one deem Entweihter Gotter an aria. She doesn't have an extended passage to sing by herself. The dueling due between Elsa and Ortrud at the church procession does resembles the "mudslinging" duets between rivals in Italian opera though.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

*Lohengrin *is by far my favorite Wagner opera. We did a traditional production in San Francisco back in the 1980s that was so beautiful it matched the music. It was the only time it did in my experience. The staging and designs were by Beni Montresor.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

No, if anything, it is a bit overrated IMO. It is Das Rheingold that was underrated. 

Lohengrin is my least favorite Wagner opera. I even prefer Tannhauser to it.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Coincidentally, today I created a Spotify folder of seven different recordings* of _Lohengrin_ and will begin to listen to them over the next few weeks. Up to now I've only listened to _Tristan_, _Der Ring_, and _Parsifal_.


* Kempe, Abbado, Solti, Kubelik. Schneider, Janowski, and Barenboim.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Underrated? Not many composers can say that their work inspired a king to build them an entire castle in appreciation of it.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> Coincidentally, today I created a Spotify folder of seven different recordings* of _Lohengrin_ and will begin to listen to them over the next few weeks. Up to now I've only listened to _Tristan_, _Der Ring_, and _Parsifal_.
> 
> 
> * Kempe, Abbado, Solti, Kubelik. Schneider, Janowski, and Barenboim.


If Spotify have it add Bayreuth 1962 Sawallisch.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Barbebleu said:


> If Spotify have it add Bayreuth 1962 Sawallisch.


It's there. Will listen today.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> It's there. Will listen today.


It, Kempe and Kubelik are three of my favourites.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> If Spotify have it add Bayreuth 1962 Sawallisch.


Also Bayreuth 1959 with von Matacic. Fabulous cast.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> Also Bayreuth 1959 with von Matacic. Fabulous cast.


I was going to mention that one. The only problem I have with it is the recording. At some points it sounds as if they’re rearranging the set and thumping chairs around. Wonderfully sung and played but a bit too closely recorded in some places.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I tend to avoid older live recordings because of audio issues.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I’ve obviously got the composite Sawallisch but I also have the complete 3rd August one. I suspect they used a lot of the material from the 3rd and 8th of August for the official release because that’s the only two nights that Varnay sang Ortrud.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> I tend to avoid older live recordings because of audio issues.


Depends. Sometimes the historical and vocal values outweigh the audio issues. Sometimes!!😆


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Barbebleu said:


> If Spotify have it add Bayreuth 1962 Sawallisch.


I have that one and the Kempe studio recording. One of my favorite operas!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

SanAntone said:


> I tend to avoid older live recordings because of audio issues.


With this opera, you really dont need older recordings to have a great recording.
With Kemoe, Sawallisch and Solti in great sound thats all you really need.
Oh, the Kubelik is excellent too, though it needs a good remaster.
Abbado's is a fine set too.
I think Karajan's is underrated too.. *but avoid the issue where Act 2 is split on 3 discs!!!!!*


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I guess you meant Kempe ....


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Well, I absolutely _adore_ Lohengrin! Yes, yes, the plot line might possibly have some... holes but I stand by what I've expressed in some places earlier that the deeper idea behind it was still rather profound (in its own Wagnerian way, at the very least). I do think it gets disregarded more often than it should.

My favourite recording is probably the 1959 Von Matačić. I cannot think of anyone whom I've heard sing _Einsam in truben tagen_ ... more beautifully than Grümmer.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

SanAntone said:


> Coincidentally, today I created a Spotify folder of seven different recordings* of _Lohengrin_ and will begin to listen to them over the next few weeks. Up to now I've only listened to _Tristan_, _Der Ring_, and _Parsifal_.
> 
> 
> * Kempe, Abbado, Solti, Kubelik. Schneider, Janowski, and Barenboim.


I love the Kempe. Superb opera recording.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Lohengrin is an opera which has done very well on.complete recordings . I've heard the recordings conducted by Solti, Kempe, Karajan, Leinsdorf, Colin Davis , Abbado, Kubelik , Wilhelm Schuchter, Semyon Bychkov, and. live ones from Bayreuth conducted by Jochum and Peter Schneider . Not a dud among them . I haven't heard Barenboim .Janowski and the studio version with Jochum , but would very much like to .


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## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

I'm not sure if Lohengrin is really "underrated". I'd say it's rated fairly. If only on the basis of the prelude and "bridal chorus", it's always going to be popular.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Does anybody know of a complete uncut recording of Lohengrin. So many of them have great swathes of the excellent choral sections excised. When you follow with the score you soon find yourself at sea when page after page vanishes.


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## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

Barbebleu said:


> Does anybody know of a complete uncut recording of Lohengrin.


I'm not an expert on the subject, but based on what I can gather;
Kempe has uncut act 3. Leinsdorf & Barenboim has uncut "In fernem Land".


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Otis B. Driftwood said:


> I'm not an expert on the subject, but based on what I can gather;
> Kempe has uncut act 3. Leinsdorf & Barenboim has uncut "In fernem Land".


I knew about the Leinsdorf and Barenboim but I haven’t listened to the Kempe in a long time. You may well be right. Act 2 tends to fall foul of the tendency to make cuts to the choral sections too. I may listen to the Kempe with the score at some point.


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