# How do you follow the opera plot?



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


Most (90% I'd say) operas on cd have the libretto in the original language plus a English translation included with the booklet. Only super cheap sets often don't include the libretto (they usually settle for a synopsis of the story). In fact, most sets have the libretto in English, German, French and Italian.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

It varies greatly, If I know quite well the language of the opera, I usually only hear, but if my knowledge of the language is not great, like Polish or Hungarian, I settle with the libretto at hand, and even if the recording doesn't come with a libretto, it is very easy to find it in the net, this doesn't work only in two specific cases: with very rare (and I mean really rare) orvery new operas (whose libretto is covered by copyright).


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> Only super cheap sets often don't include the libretto (they usually settle for a synopsis of the story).


And even though they're cheap, they're intensely frustrating! A problem about buying them online is that surprisingly often, no mention is made in the description of the item whether a libretto is included. Which is fine if it _is_; but if it isn't it's groans all round when the package is opened.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> And even though they're cheap, they're intensely frustrating! A problem about buying them online is that surprisingly often, no mention is made in the description of the item whether a libretto is included. Which is fine if it _is_; but if it isn't it's groans all round when the package is opened.


Yep - the few times it's happened to me I haven't even bothered to listen.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Well, as a newborn opera fan I must admit that knowing the libretto does indeed enhance the experience. However, I still listen to opera mainly for the music so I just search the disk and choose the arias which are most appealing musically first. If I had a disk with a very obscure opera or some cheap disk without a libretto, I would probably search for a synopsis online.


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Boxed Sets*

I made a point of buying all my opera's in physical boxed sets. I did not buy them via iTunes as I wanted the booklet that comes with them and not a PDF.

Besides they look wonderful on my bookshelf!

I do lots of searching around the internet and watch videos that explain a particular opera. You can pick up much by listening to short videos of someone interpreting the work for you. I am no expert, but I love the plots and arias. I was listening to Magdalena Kožená as I drove to work this morning.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

I should add to what I said earlier that my new-found love for _Handel's_ operas has to some degree changed my listening habits. They're so easy to enjoy just as music, that quite often I play a whole new opera through without knowing anything but the bare minimum of the plot - or even nothing at all - just for the pleasure of the music. I'm not suggesting that this is a 'complete' experience, nor is it a substitute for sitting down with the libretto, but his music is so easy to like that I find it can be enjoyed very well in this way. I've just made my first foray into Vivaldi's vocal music, and I think the same is going to be possible there, too.


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## classidaho (May 5, 2009)

when she is bubbly happy, it is about midway.........when she dies, it's over.....:angry:


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


they usually come witht a libretto and translation, or you could find the libretto and translation online to most major operas.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2009)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there.


Really?



Aramis said:


> Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense.


Really?



Aramis said:


> So, how do you deal with this problem?


Maybe it's because of the way I started listening to opera, by running out of a favorite composer's other works to listen to. The first one was probably Janáček. If you don't listen to his operas, you run out of Janáček to listen to really quickly. I really liked Janáček's music, though, so there was really only one thing to do, get his operas. I did, and I discovered that opera was just like any other work, it had pitch and harmony and rhythm. So hey presto, another dozen hours of Janáček to listen to! I did the same with Berlioz and Dvořák and Prokofiev and Mussorgsky and many more, until I could get operas by composers I'd never even heard before. (I first heard the music of Kutavičius when I bought his opera _Lokys._)

I've seen many operas, so I know their plots more or less. I've seen many operas in English, and have understood about a third of what was sung.

Operas are pieces of music, just like symphonies and serenades and piano trios. Do the esteemed members read the libretti of masses and stabat maters and monodramas and the like? Or do you just listen?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Well on DVD they often have subtitles, CD i just enjoy the music really.

At the performances you can obviously buy the libretto, but here in Amsterdam they also have it translated and projected onto a small screen high above the stage.


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## classidaho (May 5, 2009)

reading translations is an utter distraction from the raw beauty of the music and is usually lame anyway (my opinion, of course.) If I understand the words, it would increase my enjoyment but if I have to follow the bouncing ball I would rather pre read the program for a basic understanding of the characters and plot, then kick back and enjoy the choreography settings, intensity of the characters and most importantly, the music. . Chuck


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

some guy said:


> I've seen many operas, so I know their plots more or less. I've seen many operas in English, and have understood about a third of what was sung.
> 
> Operas are pieces of music, just like symphonies and serenades and piano trios. Do the esteemed members read the libretti of masses and stabat maters and monodramas and the like? Or do you just listen?


I know, I never understood how many people who love classical music, including songs, lieders, Cantatas, Chorales, etc. Just can't get into Opera, it just baffles me. If it's the length, why not just listen to one Act and save the other for later.

I'd be interested to hear from those who do listen to other classical vocal music, but don't like Opera, as to why this is?


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Hi JoeGreen,

I was one of "those people"  I started with symphonic music and then moved on to chamber and Lieder. Getting my way into opera required:

1. finding arias with beautiful melody
2. finding natural, beautiful voices
3. warming up to non-musical elements of opera such as plot
4. discovering other bonuses such as the visual aspects and dance elements

I was not a great fan of non-abstract art, I just found it too mundane. However, after watching films like Le rois danse, I caught the spirit and even warmed up to fiction a little bit. Previously the only kind of fiction that I would tolerate were fairytales but now due to my newly found love of opera I also appreciate fiction more as a side effect  So maybe people who have not yet become opera fans simply have not found the right voices and the right operas or not yet warmed up to less abstract art.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Thanks for your input Ciel, but I wonder if it's possible to enjoy Opera without factoring in the plot of the text? I mean as someone else pointed out, not many follow the text to a latin mass when set to music and such. Or am I mistaken? When voices are present is knowing the text as important?


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Well, I guess arias and opera suites are indeed enjoyed by many without any information of the plot whatsoever  Maybe it is not enjoying opera as a whole but still related. For me the plot just adds another dimension to the body of music contained in the opera. And then it is up to the listeners if they want to follow every word or simply get a general idea of what is going on and just enjoy the music and visual aspects.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2009)

Although opera recordings on cd are a handy substitute, opera is a *theatrical* medium that is supposed to be seen *in theaters!* 

Many opera theaters these days provide surtitles during the performance, so that you can follow the plot even if you don't speak the language involved.

But a well-staged theatrical performance of an opera should convey the story without too much extra information being needed.

Increasing operas are recorded not in audio, but in dvd format, with subtitles that can be turned on/off according to your own preference. The cost of a dvd of an opera is now often the same as the audio cd box set - or even less, due to advances in recording technology and lower packaging costs


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## Zuo17 (Jul 8, 2009)

_Ever heard of the phrase, "It ain't over till the fat lady sings"?_ =P

For me, I think it might be useful if I attempt to learn the language, especially Italian or German(_could come in handy if I travel to Europe_) 

Until again,
Zach


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

*Reiner Torheit:* welcome to Talk Classical, it is interesting to have someone who lives in Moscow. Glad you de-lurked. I guess the next best thing to a dvd is seeing it live. To my mind operas are a bit like films - you can have a film on DVD and the score on CD - or you can have an opera on DVD and the opera suite on CD as well


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2009)

JoeGreen said:


> Thanks for your input Ciel, but I wonder if it's possible to enjoy Opera without factoring in the plot of the text? I mean as someone else pointed out, not many follow the text to a latin mass when set to music and such. Or am I mistaken? When voices are present is knowing the text as important?


This is a very interesting point, Joe! And one which your Italian namesake laboured long and hard over!

What I would say is this...

*... before there was any NOTE of music, there was a STORY. This story so greatly INTERESTED the composer, that he began to think how it could be told in a theatre, and how his music would add depth, meaning, drama and dimension to that story. The composer took the STORY, and either he made a LIBRETTO of it himself (composers like Tippett, Janacek, Wagner, sometimes Tchaikovsky) or more usually he approached a professional dramatist to make a stage version that could be set to music.*

So when we approach any opera, we should remember that the STORY, and the POETIC TEXT were the composer's own inspiration! 

Almost always composers who were deeply interested in *drama* made it their special field of composition (Janacek, Verdi, Wagner, Bizet, Menotti, Handel). Some composers were able to write outstanding theatrical music alongside music for the church or concert-hall (Tchaikovsky, Britten, Barber, Poulenc). But other composers lacked this theatrical "instinct", and even when they tried to compose operas, the results were poor (Schubert, Mendelssohn) and these operas have fallen from popularity... _because_ they're poorly-conceived dramatically.

You don't have to have to write opera to be a great composer! (Although Schubert thought so!). But to write really good operas takes a certain theatrical "knack" and ability to conceive not only the music, but how the entire scenic performance will look. *The music is the way it is BECAUSE of the story.*

Operas were the blockbuster movies of the pre-cinema age. Without electric light or special effects, and with the actors almost invisible from the cheapest seats, it was the music that took pride of place and held it all together. These days music has been relegated to a more subsidiary role now that movie technology has developed - yet somehow composers still want to write operas about the great events and stories of our own times....


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2009)

Hi Ciel Rouge, and thanks for the welcome. I live in Moscow, but I am not originally from here


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

There aren't any rules here about the approach to take. Obviously any composer in the pre-TV age would expect his music to be listened to in the theatre with the full spectacle/plot unfolding along with the music. So if we want to 'get' an experience most like the one the composer 'intended', then a visit to a live opera is the best way to do that. 

But there are qualifications to add to that: 

1. Many modern operatic productions are so far removed from what the composer intended that the link with the composer's conception of the opera is seriously compromised.

2. We now have TV and DVD performances. But what works in the theatre may not work at all on the small screen, and the number of DVD operas I can actually enjoy is pretty small.

3. Our world of recorded audio means that we have the option of merely listening without seeing - and that alone offers extra choices:
(a) Do we just listen to the music and dispense with the plot? Sometimes I do this and it can be very enjoyable. The emotional effect of the drama, after all, comes through the music. 
(b) Do we follow the music with the libretto? On the whole I find this works very well, for me. The characters go about their business in my imagination, and my imagined experience is a very visual one. I 'see' the events unfolding as I'm listening.
(c) Sometimes I do something in between - that is, I know the plot already, or have read a synopsis, and listen without the libretto; so I have a vague notion of where we are in the plot, without being aware most of the time of the details of the correspondence.

It seems to me we have the best of all worlds - there are so many ways of engaging with opera now, that we're free to choose what suits us best at any given moment.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

JoeGreen said:


> Thanks for your input Ciel, but I wonder if it's possible to enjoy Opera without factoring in the plot of the text? I mean as someone else pointed out, not many follow the text to a latin mass when set to music and such. Or am I mistaken? When voices are present is knowing the text as important?


Not to say that Opera or other forms of vocal music can't be enjoyed without the text, but I nevertheless enjoy it much more when I know what they sing. It also helps to appreciate the interpretations of the singers - Maria Callas all of a sudden getting hysterical makes no sense if you don't know what's going on.


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## Zuo17 (Jul 8, 2009)

> So if we want to 'get' an experience most like the one the composer 'intended', then a visit to a live opera is the best way to do that.


Elgarian, I completely agree with you on attending a live performance.
I remember when I first attended my 1st live opera performance(_opera is so expensive_). It was a performance of Mozart's _Don Giovanni._ Even though I got junk seats(_I couldn't see the subtitles screen_), I was still able to follow the story. I absolutely loved watching it live. The only downside was that I couldn't understand all the jokes and humor when the audience laughed(_grrr, if I only could understand fluent Italian at the time..._) After, I bought the DVD of La Scala Opera house's _Don Giovanni_(_Riccardo Mutti conducting_). When I watched it, it was simply not the same experience.

Until again,
Zach


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Opera CD Box*



jhar26 said:


> Not to say that Opera or other forms of vocal music can't be enjoyed without the text, but I nevertheless enjoy it much more when I know what they sing. It also helps to appreciate the interpretations of the singers - Maria Callas all of a sudden getting hysterical makes no sense if you don't know what's going on.


jhar26 - I could not have said it better.

I bought Opera in a CD box when I was very young - what was I thinking? That should have been a red flag as American Teens do not buy opera?

Then I started reading the libretto and even watching them on VHS at the time. At least for me the more and more I know the greater appreciation I can have of the Opera.

My feeble attempt I am sure lacks much to be desired. But with limited income then as a teen and even now as an adult it is hard to explore the wonderful world of Opera when every one in your family hates it. A present that is not the case, my wife listens to what I listen to and has no real music preference. My four year old daughter knows no better so I guess it is perfectly normal that I corrupt her before she turns teen.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> Not to say that Opera or other forms of vocal music can't be enjoyed without the text, but I nevertheless enjoy it much more when I know what they sing. It also helps to appreciate the interpretations of the singers - Maria Callas all of a sudden getting hysterical makes no sense if you don't know what's going on.


Yes, good point.


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## classidaho (May 5, 2009)

I could really enjoy Maria Calas getting hysterical even without knowing why...... She is fun  to watch. I wish there were more videos of her. he he


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2009)

Music is said to be a universal language so who needs words?? imagination is much better. most of the libretto is silly and childish particularly Mozart


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2009)

Andante said:


> Music is said to be a universal language so who needs words?? imagination is much better. most of the libretto is silly and childish particularly Mozart


I beg your pardon?


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2009)

Reiner Torheit said:


> I beg your pardon?


 Granted

Cosi fan tutte
Tears and sighs, caresses, swoons. No. 2 - Trio

DON ALFONSO 
Woman's constancy 
Is like the Arabian Phoenix; 
Everyone swears it exists, 
But no one knows where.

FERRANDO 
The phoenix is my Dorabella.

GUGLIELMO 
The phoenix is my Fiordiligi.

DON ALFONSO 
It's neither one nor the other. 
It never existed, and never will.

Recitative

FERRANDO 
Poets' nonsense!

GUGLIELMO 
Old men's drivel!

DON ALFONSO 
Well then, listen, 
But without flying into a rage: 
What proof have you 
That your loves are always true to you? 
What makes you so sure 
That their hearts are steadfast?

FERRANDO 
Long acquaintance.

GUGLIELMO 
Their noble upbringing.

FERRANDO 
Their sublime thoughts.

GUGLIELMO 
Kindred feelings.

FERRANDO 
Unselfishness.

GUGLIELMO 
Steadfast characters.

FERRANDO 
Their promises.

GUGLIELMO 
Their protests.

FERRANDO 
Their oaths.

Excuse me if I laugh!

FERRANDO 
Confound you! 
Stop taunting us!

DON ALFONSO 
Gently, gently; what if I prove 
Conclusively to you today 
That they're just like the others?

GUGLIELMO 
It couldn't be!

FERRANDO 
Impossible!

DON ALFONSO 
Shall we bet on it?

FERRANDO 
We're on!

DON ALFONSO 
A hundred sequins.

GUGLIELMO 
A thousand, if you like.

DON ALFONSO 
My hand on it!

FERRANDO 
Both hands!

*See what I mean*


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Andante said:


> Music is said to be a universal language so who needs words?? imagination is much better. most of the libretto is silly and childish particularly Mozart


What? Ok that the Magic FLute may sound childish if you can't grasp its deep meaning, but Don Giovanni and Le Nozze di Figaro silly? Childish?


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

Andante said:


> Granted
> 
> *See what I mean*


If this is silly, it is just that Da Ponte meant the lovers to be silly in the beggining of the work.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2009)

bdelykleon said:


> If this is silly, it is just that Da Ponte meant the lovers to be silly in the beggining of the work.


Oh, I see, how silly of me, tut tut


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

Andante said:


> *See what I mean*


No.

Obviously we'll have to agree to disagree about this.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

Da Ponte is one of the greatest opera librettists.

There have been many people who have admired and appreciated his works for over 200 years. I am not sure it is fair or reasonable to rubbish his work in the way you claim.

But you are entitled to your opinion. I don't suppose either Mozart or Da Ponte care very much


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

Reiner Torheit said:


> Da Ponte is one of the greatest opera librettists.
> 
> There have been many people who have admired and appreciated his works for over 200 years. I am not sure it is fair or reasonable to rubbish his work in the way you claim.


In reply to your *pre edited post:*
That has always been my trouble, as you implied '*I am simple and naïve' *So be it , the result is that I can not appreciate these great literary masterpieces.


> But you are entitled to your opinion.


 Well that is very gracious of you, thank you so much.



> I don't suppose either Mozart or Da Ponte care very much


No I am sure they would not care two hoots and for the record neither do I.


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## classidaho (May 5, 2009)

Oh! Oh!......... This thread has the makings of a great opera! , he he


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

Seriously I realise it helps if you know the general story but even if you don't you are still able to enjoy the music


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

*O.K.: my turn*



Andante said:


> Music is said to be a universal language so who needs words??


Hmmm...

I'm curious- if opera lyrics are categorized as somehow superfluous to the "universal language" of music, do you believe the same level of superfluousness applies to oratorios(?). Cantatas? Lieder?! The final movement of Beethoven's 9th?? The entire corpus of Mahler's 8th?!?

If the answer is "no," then there must be some underlying objection to opera other than the supposed lack of necessity for words...


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2009)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I'm curious- if opera lyrics are categorized as somehow superfluous to the "universal language" of music, do you believe the same level of superfluousness applies to oratorios(?). Cantatas? Lieder?! The final movement of Beethoven's 9th?? The entire corpus of Mahler's 8th?!?
> 
> If the answer is "no," then there must be some underlying objection to opera other than the supposed lack of necessity for words...


It was a tongue in cheek joke Chi


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I initially just listen to the work purely as music... the voice is just another instrument. This is true whether we are speaking of opera, lieder, chanson, oratorios, cantatas, or what have you. On the second listening I usually glance over a generalized synopsis. Only on subsequent listenings (if the music warrants it... if not I haven't wasted my time reading through the libretto) will I sit down with the libretto or the lyrics.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2009)

All of the Opera CDs that I have are ones that either I know the general synopsis and/ have seen on TV or video, I am not a great collector of opera much preferring Oratorio


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

The librettos are easy to find online, like on this site:
http://www.rwagner.net/e-t-opere.html


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## Gneiss (Feb 3, 2009)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


I would say that these days Wiki is your best friend, you can find almost any synopsis on there...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I agree that it's good to glance at the libretto, if you have the chance, while listening to an opera. It doesn't matter what language it's in, even if you know the language, it's not always easy to follow what's happening if it's not printed on a page in front of you. You don't have to do this every time you hear the opera, only say once to familiarise yourself with what's going on. I think that this knowledge enhances one's enjoyment of opera (or other vocal forms like lieder, for example)...

By the way, can anyone find the libretto of Schoenberg's _Moses und Aron _online? I've looked but not found it. Maybe it's still in copyright? If you have an answer, please message me. Thanks...


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## scytheavatar (Aug 27, 2009)

Andante said:


> Music is said to be a universal language so who needs words?? imagination is much better. most of the libretto is silly and childish particularly Mozart


I am one of those people who believe that if you don't care about the libretto, or you only care about the music, you might as well go listen to some symphony or chamber music. Opera without words = useless, opera is all about the whole package of music, plot, drama, action. While indeed a lot of librettos are silly or childish, the music is never the same if you don't understand the meaning behind it.

The way I do it, I watch the DVD of an opera over and over again with subtitles, usually with different productions just to make things interesting and refreshing. After a while you can memorise the libretto and at least get a general idea of what they are singing, only then do I move on to audio CDs with their superior vocals.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

scytheavatar said:


> I am one of those people who believe that if you don't care about the libretto, or you only care about the music, you might as well go listen to some symphony or chamber music. Opera without words = useless, opera is all about the whole package of music, plot, drama, action. While indeed a lot of librettos are silly or childish, the music is never the same if you don't understand the meaning behind it.


Although I do enjoy listening to opera in more casual ways and don't find it 'useless', I think you're right to say that without 'the whole package', we don't (can't) get the full experience that the composer and librettist intended - and that incompleteness can cause problems that might not otherwise occur. For example, if we isolate just the text (as Andante did with a bit of _Cosi_), it can be made to look thin and ineffectual; I presume it was never intended to stand alone as poetry or prose. But when the words combine with the music (and the rest of the package) they become an integral component of a whole which is much greater than the sum of its parts.

An excellent example of that is the trio from _Cosi_, which I've mentioned a few times recently. On their own, the words are nothing much - pleasant, a bit gooey perhaps.

"May the breeze be gentle,
And the waves be calm,
And may all the elements
Look kindly on
Their wishes."

But when those words, those sentiments, combine with everything else, we get something that for 3 minutes is art at its most perfect. It's not just the music; it's not just the drama; it's not just the words. It becomes a unity of profound artistic expression. Here it is: Soave sia il vento


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

The plot is pretty hard to follow when you're asleep.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Tapkaara said:


> The plot is pretty hard to follow when you're asleep.


Of course there are producers who think the plot as given could be improved, and that they know how to improve it. In some such cases, sleeping can be a merciful release.


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## cultchas (Sep 19, 2009)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


Opera really is demanding of time and attention speaking from my experience. Like a good student, I do my homework. Of course sometimes I get too lazy and wish that MTV will give me hand holding.

With Benjamin Britten's operas, Albert Herring and Ownen Wingrave, I thought I could do well without the text. I was wrong


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2009)

scytheavatar said:


> I am one of those people who believe that if you don't care about the libretto, or you only care about the music, you might as well go listen to some symphony or chamber music. Opera without words = useless, opera is all about the whole package of music, plot, drama, action. While indeed a lot of librettos are silly or childish, the music is never the same if you don't understand the meaning behind it.
> 
> The way I do it, I watch the DVD of an opera over and over again with subtitles, usually with different productions just to make things interesting and refreshing. After a while you can memorise the libretto and at least get a general idea of what they are singing, only then do I move on to audio CDs with their superior vocals.


Try reading the previous posts my #41 for example


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## ConcertVienna (Sep 9, 2009)

well, i always read the libretto beforehand. i often find the stories fascinating. to me, opera is theatre to a great extend.

Besides,
The Vienna State Opera has introduced little screans, which allow you to follow the story in English ( I believe there some other language options too). Very high-tech, I love it when the ultra-conservative Austrian introduce something really cool and mothern like that!


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2009)

ConcertVienna said:


> The Vienna State Opera has introduced little screans, which allow you to follow the story in English ( I believe there some other language options too). Very high-tech, I love it when the ultra-conservative Austrian introduce something really cool and mothern like that!


I recently heard part of The Magic Flute in English unfortunately I was not in a position to take down the details, but I think it is a great idea to translate the popular opera's


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## Patrick Mertens (Nov 13, 2009)

I aboslutely need the libretto. You tell me it is a foreign language? I speak Dutch and I start to understand the German libretto thanks to my charming teacher Denise. I am learning Italian now.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I speak (modern) Italian but still need the libretto for things like Handel or even Mozart as the forms are often archaic. Moral: don't learn your Italian from opera


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I can dig it plenty without knowing what's going on, in fact, in some cases I prefer it. Tannhäuser was ruined for me when I saw it on DVD.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

It's very easy to google any opera and read the synopsis . Wikipedia is a good place to look . Opera News magazine has the plot of every radio broadcast each month,
and Margaret Juntwait, host of the weekly Saturday radio broadcasts, does an excellent job with commentary and explaining the plot .
I got accustomed from my teenage years to reading the synopsis and following the English translation in the booklets from complete opera sets on LP over 40 years ago ,
and I've never regretted it ! I got familiar with Italian, French German, and even Russian and Czech this way . When I started to take German in junior high school , it was very helpful to me, because I was already fairly familiar with the language from listening to opera .
Now I don't even need the libretto when I listen to the most famous operas .


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

ConcertVienna said:


> The Vienna State Opera has introduced little screans, which allow you to follow the story in English . . .


Same at the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. The screens are on the back of the seat in front of you. There are two or three translations available, I think. Given the repetition in opera, you can read a line, watch for ten minutes using your opera glasses, then glance down in time to see the next line.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I remember buying a recording of Janacek's Jenufa and it arrived without the booklet - not helpful as I only knew the bare minimum of plot details. As these were pre-internet days for me (there was limited access at work on a spare PC but competition was fierce) I couldn't obtain a synopsis or libretto to help with the listening experience. Needless to day, I was all at sea while listening to it and resorted to buying a slim volume which included the libretti (in both Czech and English) and synopses to both Jenufa and Kata Kabanova as a copy of the missing booklet wasn't available from where I'd ordered the discs from. With some operas I can now listen to substantial tracts without referring to the libretto as I basically know what's coming but I consider a libretto (with the original language as well as English, if possible and where necessary) and synopsis essential if the work is unfamiliar, at least in my case.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2012)

From memory some label put out an English version of the most popular operas I can not remember which label


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## Bardamu (Dec 12, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I speak (modern) Italian but still need the libretto for things like Handel or even Mozart as the forms are often archaic. Moral: don't learn your Italian from opera


It's more than that.
Italian is my native language but I usually need concentration to understand what it is said ( not what it means ) because of how it is sung ( obviously it vary greatly from operas and performers ).

Listening Orfeo recently I was quite surprised how italian (florentine) from 1600 is still so consistent with what it is currently spoken.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Opera is still as foreign as anything I don't understand and I like it like that.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Andante said:


> From memory some label put out an English version of the most popular operas I can not remember which label


Chandos Opera in English http://www.chandos.net/labels05.asp?Action=Action&LabelID=7&LabelDesc=Opera+In+English

Honestly for me, knowing what is being sung about is often a hindrance to enjoying the opera. The rather silly plots and frequently ropey libretto, where they go on about what they are going to do rather than just doing it, is distracting. I prefer just to enjoy the sound world created.

I've only heard the Goodall Ring and The Magic Flute from that Chandos collection but they seem pretty good versions. In fact The Magic Flute is my favorite version as I don't much like singspiel, breaking the action and music to allow someone to waffle in German isn't very entertaining to me. At least if it is in English it doesn't seem like random interruptions. I listened to and rejected Auber's Le Domino Noir for that reason, despite Sumi Jo's beautiful singing.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

The plots may be silly, but when I'm first getting acquainted with an opera, I want a translation (even if the libretto is in German, which I undersand). This means either a copy of the libretto with English translation, or English subtitles on a DVD.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Andante said:


> From memory some label put out an English version of the most popular operas I can not remember which label


I'm fairly certain it was Chandos.

Oops - only about 18 hours late...


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## AndyS (Dec 2, 2011)

Usually listen to once to get to grips with the music after getting an understanding of the plot off wiki or the booklet. And then when I have the time I'll sit down properly and listen with the libretto

But sometimes it's all about the music and the singing - this is especially the case for me with Puccini's operas.

With German operas, as long as I've read the libretto once through, I know enough German that I can Follow the plot wight reading. But completely lost with Italian (and French to a lesser extent), although I have started picking up the patterns of the language now


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

If you think opera plots are silly , remember Superhorn's law of Opera :

THE OPERA HAS YET TO BE WRITTEN WITH A STORY AS RIDICULOUS AS WHAT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE !


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

When I was a child in France, I went to the film "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg" with my parents. I spoke no French, but I recall making up my own story while I was watching the movie. Perhaps opera can be enjoyed in the same way.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Opera is something that you can't dig without knowledge what is going on there. Listening to operas and having no idea about the story makes no sense. The problem is not everyone knows italian or any other language in which particular opera was written. So, how do you deal with this problem? I guess most people watch operas on DVD, so they can read translated subilites. But what about opera on CDs?


Learning an opera's *plot* is a big mistake at least 90% of the time. Reading the (usually translated) libretto is usually a big mistake too.

:devil:


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2012)

Just enjoy the music and singing after all you don't have to understand music to enjoy it


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

With CDs or old-fashioned disks (don't know the exact name in English, the ones you had to change every half hour or so and took 10-12 of them to cover an average Wagner opera) I usually had two-language libretto with a "raw" translation in my language. I learned a lot of Italian just following those. 
I usually prefer subtitles (even in Italian - they help a lot), except for the operas I know too well. I once watched Trovatore with English subs and came to the conclusion everyone needs therapy in that opera.


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## rsmithor (Jun 30, 2011)

A great place to look for opera libretto's are used record shops that carry used classical LPs and vintage operas... I've brought a few operas on LP for a few dollars, just to own the full size libretto... Right now there are so many truly great Compact Disc re-issues from major labels (DG, Decca, RCA, EMI, Philips, Sony, etc) in nice slim boxes... and sad to say, all missing libretto's...


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

rsmithor said:


> A great place to look for opera libretto's are used record shops that carry used classical LPs and vintage operas... I've brought a few operas on LP for a few dollars, just to own the full size libretto... Right now there are so many truly great Compact Disc re-issues from major labels (DG, Decca, RCA, EMI, Philips, Sony, etc) in nice slim boxes... and sad to say, all missing libretto's...


What a good idea! Thanks for the tip.


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