# Anyone like Hip-Hop?



## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

I know what most of you feel about hip hop on the forums, but anyone like any sort of hiphop whether old or new? I love classical music primarily, but I've always had a soft side for early hip hop (not the mainstream ringtone industry that's it turned into today), especially early 90s'-mid 90s' where it blended it in with other genres of music and became an intense form of expression to the point of artistry. Some groups that have really stuck with me are A Tribe Called Quest, Blackstar, Common, etc. Anyone have any other rap artists that they like, or at the very least, don't mind it too much? How do you feel about hip hop and if you don't like it, why not? Do you feel like it be considered "music" or just a primitive form of poetry? I've always felt like it was outlet for the rhythmic side of my musical interests.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

I don't ever listen to it, and I consider it more of a method of lyrical conveyance than a form of music, but I do have respect for groups like "a tribe called quest" and such. I'm open to the belief that there are really good hip-hop groups out there, but I still feel that the emphasis is placed upon the lyrics, not music itself.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Beastie Boys fan, here!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I listen to it sometimes on radio, along with other non-classical things, as a break from the classical (too much of a "good thing" is not always good, imo, I need "down time" from classical sometimes). I picked up this old album, a fusion between hip-hop & jazz & I love it. I was saddened to hear that MC Guru, who was "at the helm" of these recordings, died at a quite young age not long ago (about in his mid-forties?). Anyway, judging from this, I think the guy had much talent & "verve" with these things -


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

I still like the old stuff.

In my opinion, there was a golden decade of hip hop around 1985-1995, when it was still fresh, experimental and diverse. For me, it started with Run DMC and the Beastie Boys, LL Cool J and Young MC. Then onto De La Soul and Jungle Brothers, as well as Public Enemy and even rap metal. But more than anything, I loved the mix of hip hop and jazz: Us3, Guru, Digable Planets. 

After that, hip hop went mainstream and lost its edge. It mixed with Rhythm&Blues and lost its rhythm. It turned to posing and lost its core.


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

I agree with you there, but I think hip hop truly lost it's edge in the 21st century, as there was still very legitimate groups in the late 90s', although most if any have not survived MTV exploitation. I can't get over the fact that not only has hip hop turned into a degenerate form of music, but it has actually been turned into dangerous propaganda for the inner-city community that it was supposed to give a voice to in the first place. Undoubtedly the definition of irony.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

if you want newer stuff look into mos def, the roots, etc.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

SottoVoce said:


> I agree with you there, but I think hip hop truly lost it's edge in the 21st century, as there was still very legitimate groups in the late 90s', although most if any have not survived MTV exploitation. I can't get over the fact that not only has hip hop turned into a degenerate form of music, but it has actually been turned into dangerous propaganda for the inner-city community that it was supposed to give a voice to in the first place. Undoubtedly the definition of irony.


This.

Because stuff like MC Hammer,Kris Kros and the like were good. Modern rap is horrible,it's about bling bling,the hood,and stuff like that.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

What Sotto said. I respect the hip-hop that tries to urge inner city black youth to get educated about the system rather than to perpetuate their own oppression with superficiality, violence and material obsession. So, almost none of the new stuff.


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## Gab (Sep 7, 2011)

listen to this, a blend of jazz and hip-hop, like the jazzmatazz albums by Guru.
Hip-hop is not only a question of inner cities, but also a question of musicality!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I suppose it's like any other popular genre. There's the stuff with some artistic merit, and then there's the cynical commercial garbage. I don't listen to any pure hip hop or rap artists, but I like some musicians who employ a bit of this in their music like Michael Franti And Spearhead, or the Chicago jazz group Liquid Soul.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I, like our good buddy Tappi, like the Beastie Boys...I grew up on them and mainly RUN DMC and artists of that time...one of the coolest concerts I saw in rap was Public Enemy, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince and Run DMC all at the same gig in the Miami Arena...I was a kid and it was awesome and I loved Beethoven at the time...ahhhhh, so nice to like so many different things...nowadays I'll only throw a little Three Six Mafia here and there...when I wanna seriously feel the bass in my car!


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## kzhen (Sep 6, 2011)

Hm, I have to agree that the new hip hop music has totally lost meaning. The lyrics have no significance to it, but it goes with the generation as well. Everything is changing and it's sad to say, it isn't for the best in terms of musical talent wise. For those of you who reminisce on the old hip hop music, here's where you can find them for low prices http://www.pronto.com/shop/hip-hop-cd


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

kzhen said:


> Hm, I have to agree that the new hip hop music has totally lost meaning. The lyrics have no significance to it, but it goes with the generation as well. Everything is changing and it's sad to say, it isn't for the best in terms of musical talent wise. For those of you who reminisce on the old hip hop music, here's where you can find them for low prices http://www.pronto.com/shop/hip-hop-cd


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

I'm not a hip-hop expert, but is it fair to in part blame Dr. Dre for how crap the genre generally is these days? The sampling in the old stuff was complex--spliced up and recontextualized way more creatively more than "some guy talking over other people's music", a common criticism aimed at rap--and lyrically it wasn't quite the culture of violence and misogyny it is now, even progressive at times. But then "The Chronic" was basically a cushy verse/chorus pop album with toughguy (and mostly ghostwritten, hah) "gangsta" lyrics, and I don't know of a decent hip-hop album that made it into mainstream consciousness since then.

It must be more complicated than that, but anyway, it's depressing how the lanky dorks at pitchfork and other somewhat noted publications continue to champion this overcompensating, adolescent trash pumped out by wounded, insecure egos by waxing poetic about "an id-drama reflecting the harsh realities of inner city violence," blah blah... That's my main problem with status-quo hip-hop: it doesn't reflect the reality of brutality or misogyny, it romanticizes it. It's like a whole genre of the kind of people who watch Scarface or Goodfellas and totally miss the point.

Don't mind my aimless rant. But compare any Public Enemy lyric with any Lil' Wayne lyric, and it's just pathetic.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> I'm not a hip-hop expert, but is it fair to in part blame Dr. Dre for how crap the genre generally is these days? The sampling in the old stuff was complex--spliced up and recontextualized way more creatively more than "some guy talking over other people's music", a common criticism aimed at rap--and lyrically it wasn't quite the culture of violence and misogyny it is now, even progressive at times. But then "The Chronic" was basically a cushy verse/chorus pop album with toughguy (and mostly ghostwritten, hah) "gangsta" lyrics, and I don't know of a decent hip-hop album that made it into mainstream consciousness since then.
> 
> It must be more complicated than that, but anyway, it's depressing how the lanky dorks at pitchfork and other somewhat noted publications continue to champion this overcompensating, adolescent trash pumped out by wounded, insecure egos by waxing poetic about "an id-drama reflecting the harsh realities of inner city violence," blah blah... That's my main problem with status-quo hip-hop: it doesn't reflect the reality of brutality or misogyny, it romanticizes it. It's like a whole genre of the kind of people who watch Scarface or Goodfellas and totally miss the point.
> 
> Don't mind my aimless rant. But compare any Public Enemy lyric with any Lil' Wayne lyric, and it's just pathetic.


I largely agree with a lot of your views on hip hop and dubstep that I've noticed here - some good observations.

That said along with some of the acts mentioned here the hip hop act *Grouch* isn't bad, I've also heard some interesting things from *the Roots*, *Nas*, and *KRS 1* among others.

I always kinda liked this little diddy:


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## kzhen (Sep 6, 2011)

Philip said:


>


Thanks for sharing the song. I enjoyed the beat and lyrics! If only they played this on the radio.. I'm sure there are many talented hip hop artists out there currently that we just don't know about. Thanks again


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

perhaps one of the most underrated hip-hop artists of all time, *k-os*:






live:


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

i am anti-hip hop,it is dead anyway-also RAP stands for retards attempting poetry!!!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> perhaps one of the most underrated hip-hop artists of all time, *k-os*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was actually really good. Thank goodness for people here at TC for introducing me to the best of each genre of music instead of the crap on the radio that I'm usually exposed to.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

since no one has said it, I shall be the first to say it: 2Pac and Nas were the biggest chunk of listening experience in Rap. But 2pac was the one that left the most profound impact on me, there is a noticeable "texture" to his lyrics and the beats he used. Nas always made me think of something mystical and abstract, which I also liked.

Ofcourse, I listened to all the hip-hop from back in the 90s, including public enemy, arsonists, Ice-T, NWA, Cormega, Sabac, and more obscure and underground artists. Though I havn't returned to it. Now its virtually dead, and Nas could not have been any more clearer when he made the song "hip hop is dead" back in 2002 i believe?

But, out of all the different types of music Ive listened to past and present, I still get chills listening to Dear Mama, the second verse always ALWAYS makes me want to cry. I guess I can relate to Tupacs childhood, and that missing father figure. I cant think of any Mahler movement, or Beethoven, or any other composer that can strike me like this song can.

I think people here only hate rap because the only ideas they have of it are what is portrayed on TV and radio - but there we're real gems of music in this genre, both in it being expressive of human condition, and complex and abstract lyricism (as was the case with Nas)

These are the two songs that I listen to when I am emotionally ready to listen to them:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

The most compelling case for Hip Hop was made for me by the sound track to one of my favorite anime, Samuria Champloo. The way it was used gave the show such a unique atmosphere. I little bit of hip hop set to interesting films and shows might go a long ways in coaxing my prejudiced mind open. Its just that I remember when distinctly younger having arguments with kids on the bus about the merits of classical music. Also, I don't have any friends who are into it, the music feels either too cool or too tasteless for me. But I enjoyed the atmosphere to the songs that Igneous posted. Here's the intro to that series I used to love, its not real hip hop, but very influenced


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Philip said:


> perhaps one of the most underrated hip-hop artists of all time, *k-os*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also really like K-os. I don't know if he is the most under-rated hip hop artist though, as here in Canada he seems very popular to me. He has a very positive message though and very intelligent lyrics, a good rapper, no doubt.

I'd vote for this guy being more under-rated than k-os, (although the Grouch is also getting pretty popular).

**some swearing in video*


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> But I enjoyed the atmosphere to the songs that Igneous posted. Here's the intro to that series I used to love, its not real hip hop, but very influenced


Im glad you enjoyed them, I was surprised no one had posted them earlier 

And i also liked the samurai champloo opening theme, but I cant help but think of Wu-Tang clan when they did a samurai like song as well.

Actually here it is, with an intro quoted from some japanese samurai movie. I loved listening to this.






now that this thread got me in the mood, I think ill post a few more dare-i-say "technical" songs from other rappers.

This next one has some mind-blowing lyrics, its to bad this form of lyricism wasn't expanded on.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

MOAR


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

*Hip hop been dead -2*

View attachment 2626
i used to like hip hop not anymore because it is junk now-it used to have meaning now it is just about making money,sex and partying.ALSO IT IS DEAD!!


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## Kayla (Oct 21, 2011)

Most of the time I like hip-hop. It can be regarded as a way to greet each other. When I listen to hip-hop, I feel free and rebel. I like their dress and hip-hop is actually an attitude towards life.


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## CynusAlisa (Aug 22, 2011)

Hey I am a bigger fan of the Hip-Hop Music..............I always like to dance on this type of music..........I mostly entertained by this music.....

_________________


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2011)

I hate rap/hip-hop with such intensity that words cannot express my feelings.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Kontrapunctus said:


> I hate rap/hip-hop with such intensity that words cannot express my feelings.


Maybe this will convert you. Please watch it all.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Maybe this will convert you. Please watch it all.


That was pretty freaking epic.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I guess we're (as in 'us classical music lovers') not supposed to like Hip-Hop. If we did those guys would probably start doing something else. But even accepting that I probaby just 'don't get it' and that therefore I'm in no position to pass judgement on it, going by what I've heard (which of course isn't nowhere near as much as those who are interested in the genre) it seems to me to be a very egocentric genre. The 'rebel music' of the past (Guthrie, Dylan, the hippie stuff, Sly Stone/Curtis Mayfield type of soul/funk, reggae - even the punk rockers) was usually a matter of 'us against them.' In a lot of rap it's all about "ME, ME, ME." 'My jewelry, my b***h, my car." "Look what a tough guy I am." Whereas the (real or so-called) rebels of old spoke up for the suppressed and most vulnerable members of society, many of the rappers have ridiculously inflated egos and seem to be only interested in themselves, plus they are homophobic and sexist.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

I guess that's just how commercialization and pop assimilation work. Something gets discovered, and is then dumbed down for the crowd to reflect whatever idiotic values they vote for with their dollar. Some examples:

- Indie rock before? An actual alternative to the mainstream that borrowed from a post-punk vocabulary and appropriated it into wildly surrealistic, but physical and nakedly brutal music. Indie rock after? Dumbed down folk music. Snide "irony", tweeness and pastel shirts.

- Metal before? Backlash to a stagnant hippie culture, then to 80s consumer culture. Cosmically themed and Romantic. Metal after? Makeup, nail polish and "are you talkin' to me?!" lyrics.

- Punk rock before? Unglamorous, anti-institutional, raw protest music skewering war-mongers and materialists. "Punk rock" after? You get the idea.

Anyway, meaningful artistic movements come and go, and hip-hop is just one of the many to get sucked into Britney Spears land. But as long as a genre wasn't manufactured from the start, I'll never totally discount the smaller guys.
This pleasantly surprised me recently:





Yes, I'm sort of an optimistic pessimist. Pretty much 99% of everything is ****, so you gotta keep digging


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)




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## DABTSAR (Dec 1, 2011)

DOOM!

and shame on anyone who blames hip hop for problems caused by lack of emploment oppertunities, poor education, and racist/classist "justice" system


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

*hip hop is dead-hip hop been dead*

i do not like hip hop because now it is just junk there is little or no meaning also it has been dragged on for to long with the same material made into remixes.Also hip hip is a problem because it teaches ignorance and so forth.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

DABTSAR said:


> DOOM!
> 
> and shame on anyone who blames hip hop for problems caused by lack of employment oppertunities, poor education, and racist/classist "justice" system


 that is the people and government fault for such problems but hip hop adds to the problem by them doing such things as doing drugs.They put certain things in the music to control people to do what they want.like for example that put doing drugs in the music but if people do drugs and go to take a drug test and fail then most likely they will not get a job.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

moving on...


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> The most compelling case for Hip Hop was made for me by the sound track to one of my favorite anime, Samuria Champloo. The way it was used gave the show such a unique atmosphere. I little bit of hip hop set to interesting films and shows might go a long ways in coaxing my prejudiced mind open. Its just that I remember when distinctly younger having arguments with kids on the bus about the merits of classical music. Also, I don't have any friends who are into it, the music feels either too cool or too tasteless for me. But I enjoyed the atmosphere to the songs that Igneous posted. Here's the intro to that series I used to love, its not real hip hop, but very influenced


By the way, if you were very interested in this, the artist that produced this was Nujabes. He died recently, but his music is outstanding; he's very popular on youtube, and just typing his name will get a lot of results. Waltz for Life will be Born is a great place to start if you're interested, same with Aruarian Dance. Superb music, I promise you won't be disappointed.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

karmin rippin it up


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)




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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Worst genre ever.


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

neoshredder said:


> Worst genre ever.


Did you bother exploring the genre, or are you basing your assumption on the crap you've heard on radio and tv?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nickgray said:


> Immortality by Sole and The Skyrider Band


2011 was a very good year...

cunninlynguists





hassaan mackey & apollo brown





shabazz palaces





death grips





the roots


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

moar from 2011

paul white





samiyam 





d-sisive


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I like the sound of 80s electro and early-90s hip-hop but I don't care for many of the developments after that.


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## misterjones (Oct 9, 2007)

Rap and hip-hop needs a jolt of positive energy, creativity and talent. Like this guy.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nice, vimeo, dailymotion, metacafe, etc. are now supported

[video=metacafe;5627575/chappelle_show_dancing_for_different_cultures/]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5627575/chappelle_show_dancing_for_different_cultures/[/video]


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Hip-Hop was my first love. People in here bashing on it probably do not know anything about it. I'm going to drop some of my favorite records later.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Aside from the 2011 stuff i'm currently listening (page 3 of this thread), the 3 giants for me are as follows..

Mos Def, best mc:






Kanye West, best production:






K-os, best all-around musicianship:


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I never did care for K-os. I'll have to relisten to him again but I've tried several times over that last 8 years and he's never done it for me.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> K-os, best all-around musicianship:


K-os is one of my very favorites in the hip-hop genre. I like how he experiments with other genres as well as hip-hop. The instrumentals in his songs are much more intricate and layered than many (not all) hip-hop artists that I've heard. And I like how his songs usually have a positive message. And not too much profanity. I don't necessarily have a problem with profanity...but it does get pretty tiring if there is way too much of it.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Gorillaz - Do Ya Thing feat. Andre 3000 & James Murphy


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## larryfeltonj (Feb 27, 2012)

Hip hop is a perfectly legitimate contemporary musical form, which can potentially become, extend, or be incorporated into Art ("classical") music. It's complex, percussive, and lyrical.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Death Grips - Get Got 





Death Grips - Hacker


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

There are bits of that Death Grips I like, but overall it is annoying and lacks groove. Antony Fantana be damned.

DJ Krush & Toshinori Kondo





J Dilla


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Merging...



Philip said:


> Surreal And The Sound Providers - Push On
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Philip said:


> Dibiase - Phantom Power
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Philip said:


> Zion I - Coastin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Philip said:


> Black Thought Freestyling with ?uestlove


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Old school:

Powerule ft Large Professor - Gots Ta Get This 





Masta Ace - Observations ( feat. Apocalypse) 





Jigmastas - Don't Get It Twisted Ft. Sadat X (PUTS Remix) 





JVC Force - Nu Skool 





Big Daddy Kane Ft. Big Scoob, Sauce Money, Shyheim, Jay-Z & Ol' Dirty *******





(Old school Jay-Z @ 2:46)


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## bluejeanjunky (May 19, 2012)

Beastie Boys forever! I really love "Intergalactic"..... as a Kid I've always dreamed of being a part of their group..lol!

___________________________________________
_This blog keeps the fire of music burning in me:_

http://www.audiomasteringman.com/


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

misterjones said:


> Rap and hip-hop needs a jolt of positive energy, creativity and talent. Like this guy.


May I ask what the difference between "*Hip-Hop*" and "*Rap*" music? I can't say I've listened to much of either but from what I have seen they are used interchangeably. Is one a sub-genre of the other or are they to different entities?

As most of you will know this is not my cup of tea but I like to read these rap threads and giggle at the names.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Rap is the "singing" or vocal delivery, Hip Hop is the style of music, usually slow hypnotic, chopped up beats. Yes they are usually interchangeable but you can sing over Hip Hop or have instrumental Hip Hip and you can Rap over any music: rock, electronica and reggae are fairly common.

Not sure what Bruno Mars has to do with it as he is neither.

Here is some I like, the hip hop beat is obvious but she is closer to singing than rapping most of the time.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

quack said:


> Rap is the "singing" or vocal delivery, Hip Hop is the style of music, ...
> 
> Not sure what Bruno Mars has to do with it as he is neither.


Exactly ...


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

I like hip hop. Particularly hip hop dance.

Here is a review of a hip hop dance programme I saw in March this year.

http://www.artlink.co.za/news_article.htm?contentID=29495

"Fundi" (pronounced foon dee) is the Zulu word for "expert" deriving from knowing things.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Thank you *Quack*.


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## lilmoz (Jun 8, 2012)

dj premier,alchemist,method man,das efx!!


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Dabrye - So Scientific 





Kaytradamus - Unfukwitable





Samiyam - Trick Platform


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Two Left Ears - While Time Was Leaving Streets And Corners

http://mad-hop.bandcamp.com/track/two-left-ears-while-time-was-leaving-streets-and-corners


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## Krisena (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm a great fan of Nujabes, a late Japanese DJ who made music that could be descibred as _modal hip-hop with elements of cool jazz_. Fantastic beats, and his lyrics are intelligent too. Give him a try!


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## Niki (Jul 30, 2012)

I've always loved/respected hip-hop/rap/etc. And even more so, because out of any "popular music" genres, artists seem to openly pay homage to what came before them by mentioning or sampling some of the greats often and well (see Jay Z and Kanye's "Watch the Throne" as an ex. -- with shout outs to Nina Simon and Otis Redding among others). One of my up-and-coming faves is Azealia Banks, which can spit hot fire and seems to reference back to progressive Detroit house, whether she's aware of it or not. And I am loving The Weeknd (http://the-weeknd.com/) who, not only is I think a beautiful singer and songwriter, but bucked the tradition of "how to make a name for yourself, and sign a big cash soul sucking label deal" by using social media as a weapon of amplification. He's released 3 records, all free to download off the site itself, and it's through his buzz on social media that he can demand the paycheque he does to play gigs. Genius.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I'm late on this one but it's good..

Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

thats a talented midget


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> thats a talented midget


i don't get it

edit: while i'm posting... has anybody ever made a better beat than Kanye West?

Mos Def - Sunshine (Prod. by Kanye West)





Common - The Food





Kanye West - Gold Digger (feat. Jamie Foxx)


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Better than Kanye? How about Dre?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

regressivetransphobe said:


> I'm not a hip-hop expert, but is it fair to in part blame Dr. Dre for how crap the genre generally is these days? The sampling in the old stuff was complex--spliced up and recontextualized way more creatively more than "some guy talking over other people's music", a common criticism aimed at rap--and lyrically it wasn't quite the culture of violence and misogyny it is now, even progressive at times. But then "The Chronic" was basically a cushy verse/chorus pop album with toughguy (and mostly ghostwritten, hah) "gangsta" lyrics, and I don't know of a decent hip-hop album that made it into mainstream consciousness since then.
> 
> It must be more complicated than that, but anyway, it's depressing how the lanky dorks at pitchfork and other somewhat noted publications continue to champion this overcompensating, adolescent trash pumped out by wounded, insecure egos by waxing poetic about "an id-drama reflecting the harsh realities of inner city violence," blah blah... That's my main problem with status-quo hip-hop: it doesn't reflect the reality of brutality or misogyny, it romanticizes it. It's like a whole genre of the kind of people who watch Scarface or Goodfellas and totally miss the point.
> 
> Don't mind my aimless rant. But compare any Public Enemy lyric with any Lil' Wayne lyric, and it's just pathetic.


I think you are kind of right. I just watched a documentary glorifying Death Row records so I was fed a different perspective, but I think in general I'm of the opinion that a lot of that movement was full of negativity.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> I don't ever listen to it, and I consider it more of a method of lyrical conveyance than a form of music, but I do have respect for groups like "a tribe called quest" and such. I'm open to the belief that there are really good hip-hop groups out there, but I still feel that the emphasis is placed upon the lyrics, not music itself.


That's what I think too, but I would say that in much more nasty way


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

This rap doesn't appear to have much substance though the followers claim it has "flow." But apart from the bomb beats and the hilarious chorus, what was the budget for this video?


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

clavichorder said:


> This rap doesn't appear to have much substance though the followers claim it has "flow." But apart from the bomb beats and the hilarious chorus, what was the budget for this video?


What a 'masterpiece' :lol:
But I must admit... I've heard worse... actualy, whatever I'm listening from commercial hip-hop or r'n'b, I know I've heard worse. I actualy believe in those boys that they can actualy do worse... they just must try harder


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

nikola said:


> What a 'masterpiece' :lol:
> But I must admit... I've heard worse... actualy, whatever I'm listening from commercial hip-hop or r'n'b, I know I've heard worse. I actualy believe in those boys that they can actualy do worse... they just must try harder


He reminds me of Goldfinger from the James Bond Movie 'Goldfinger.'


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

hip hop is one of my favorite music forms, because it's so great having poetry with beats. Groups in the "golden days" of hip hop like A Tribe Called Quest stripped it down to this format and it was fantastic. Today the game has certainly changed, but I still love it just as much. There are definitely some great groups out there today, although I think at the moment Death Grips has the entire scene at their fingertips.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Better than Kanye? How about Dre?


You honestly think that's a better beat than the three i posted above... ?


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> You honestly think that's a better beat than the three i posted above... ?


I don't know much about rap, I was trolling. And also exposing my ignorance. :tiphat:


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

quack said:


> Rap is the "singing" or vocal delivery, Hip Hop is the style of music, usually slow hypnotic, chopped up beats. Yes they are usually interchangeable but you can sing over Hip Hop or have instrumental Hip Hip and you can Rap over any music: rock, electronica and reggae are fairly common.


That's not even true. Rap is the vocals yes, but Hip Hop is not the style of the music. Rap is part of Hip Hop which has various aspects such as graffiti, breakdancing, DJing, etc... Since when was hip hop typically slow and hypnotic?


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> That's not even true. Rap is the vocals yes, but Hip Hop is not the style of the music. Rap is part of Hip Hop which has various aspects such as graffiti, breakdancing, DJing, etc... Since when was hip hop typically slow and hypnotic?


I think the main point was disassociating the vocal delivery from the music/lifestyle.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Philip said:


> I think the main point was disassociating the vocal delivery from the music/lifestyle.


Well fine, just don't include all the other rubbish.


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Promoe - These Walls Don't Lie





Boogie Down Productions- My Philosophy





Deltron 3030 - Mastermind


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Madvillain - Raid





Aesop Rock - None Shall Pass





Tor / Sufjan Stevens - John Wayne Gacy Jr. / Specialize (f. Pete Rock & CL Smooth) (remix)


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

There is very little hip hop I actually enjoy, and most of what I do enjoy is ruined by this problem rappers/producers seem to have in which every album must be an hour long even though the majority seem to have enough material to barely cover 20 minutes. 

Where are the well crafted ~30 minute hip hop records?


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> There is very little hip hop I actually enjoy, and most of what I do enjoy is ruined by this problem rappers/producers seem to have in which every album must be an hour long even though the majority seem to have enough material to barely cover 20 minutes.
> 
> Where are the well crafted ~30 minute hip hop records?




__
https://soundcloud.com/deathgrips%2Fsets


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Philip said:


> __
> https://soundcloud.com/deathgrips%2Fsets


this this this this

jesus, it had so much hype surrounding it, but it's for a good reason. I really like this album

EDIT: In reference to posts further up: Philip, I love your taste


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

oogabooha said:


> I love your taste


Edit: I love my taste as well!


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Philip said:


> __
> https://soundcloud.com/deathgrips%2Fsets


Ah, yet more talk of Death Grips. I got Exmilitary a while back but I have yet to listen to it.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Even though there is some hip-hop music that I can actualy enjoy to certain extent, it's mostly all really crap to me. Why should I try to understand something in what I can't find any satisfying musical substance whatsoever!? Actualy, hip-hop is social phenomenon to me first of all. Its 'music' is based on repetitition of rythms and on small and uncreative musical parts that are also repetitive. Lyrics and rythm - that's what hip-hop is. It's not even music actually. Repetition is something that became 'cool' with probably begining of electronic music. Techno is also based on nonsense repetition. It's simply the worst way to make long something that is bad and short. 
It is for little kids who wants to be cool so they can identify themselves with some ghetto style of living. Any Harlem drug dealer is 'artist' today because they made to sell that phony art to teens. It's one of those subpar and new 'musical' inventions from last 20-30 years which intention is not to make music, but to make something that will on certain level be satisfactory to the herd mentality and teens are mostly that- they're in herd, so they can feel that they're actualy worth anything at all. They must identify themsleves with something. They must be accepted by that something. They're mostly all same dressed and look similar just like teens who listen to metal music. Also, when you have out there a thousands and thousands of 'rap artists' that certain style simply always lose it's small potential quality when it's drowned in quantity.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nikola said:


> Even though there is some hip-hop music that I can actualy enjoy to certain extent, it's mostly all really crap to me. Why should I try to understand something in what I can't find any satisfying musical substance whatsoever!? Actualy, hip-hop is social phenomenon to me first of all. Its 'music' is based on repetitition of rythms and on small and uncreative musical parts that are also repetitive. Lyrics and rythm - that's what hip-hop is. It's not even music actually. Repetition is something that became 'cool' with probably begining of electronic music. Techno is also based on nonsense repetition. It's simply the worst way to make long something that is bad and short.
> It is for little kids who wants to be cool so they can identify themselves with some ghetto style of living. Any Harlem drug dealer is 'artist' today because they made to sell that phony art to teens. It's one of those subpar and new 'musical' inventions from last 20-30 years which intention is not to make music, but to make something that will on certain level be satisfactory to the herd mentality and teens are mostly that- they're in herd, so they can feel that they're actualy worth anything at all. They must identify themsleves with something. They must be accepted by that something. They're mostly all same dressed and look similar just like teens who listen to metal music. Also, when you have out there a thousands and thousands of 'rap artists' that certain style simply always lose it's small potential quality when it's drowned in quantity.


For someone who doesn't like repetition, you've somehow found a way to rehash every single negative argument against hip-hop that's already been brought up in this thread.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> For someone who doesn't like repetition, you've somehow found a way to rehash every single negative argument against hip-hop that's already been brought up in this thread.


So, it must be true


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nikola said:


> So, it must be true


Actually, what i've noticed is that people who feel the need to state their position against hip-hop (or anything in general), more fiercely than others, tend to be the ones who secretly love the genre. In fact, you gave a little hint of that in your introduction.


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> Actually, what i've noticed is that people who feel the need to state their position against hip-hop (or anything in general), more fiercely than others, tend to be the ones who secretly love the genre. In fact, you gave a little hint of that in your introduction.


If that belief will make you feel better, then believe in that 
I like to believe there is out there big Spaghetti God since that makes me feel better


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I pray to Yog Sothoth, but you stick with your cute little spaghetti thing if the pointlessness of existence is too depressing for you.










Pic related: It's Yog Sothoth holidaying in New England.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> I pray to Yog Sothoth, but you stick with your cute little spaghetti thing if the pointlessness of existence is too depressing for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My Spaghetti God can kick *** of your Yog anytime!


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

who says hip hop can't be classy? I can't stand it when people use the argument that it's a trashy form of music:






^^my absolute favorite hip hop album

also, saying that hip hop music is ridiculous in itself. Unfortunately, what is music isn't a subjective term in that sense; music is organized sounds. Yes, hip hop is based off of the rhythm and lyrics, but a large part of it is about pitch (in the track posted above, the sampling throughout the album gives the album a jazzy feel)...how isn't that music? I think you're constraining your definition of music


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Not to mention local great Ron Carter performed bass on one of the tracks!


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

nikola said:


> Even though there is some hip-hop music that I can actualy enjoy to certain extent, it's mostly all really crap to me. Why should I try to understand something in what I can't find any satisfying musical substance whatsoever!? Actualy, hip-hop is social phenomenon to me first of all. Its 'music' is based on repetitition of rythms and on small and uncreative musical parts that are also repetitive. Lyrics and rythm - that's what hip-hop is. It's not even music actually. Repetition is something that became 'cool' with probably begining of electronic music. Techno is also based on nonsense repetition. It's simply the worst way to make long something that is bad and short.


Keep in mind people made the same argument about R&B before the development of rock & roll, saying it was a dumbed down hodgepodge of gospel, blues and jazz that emphasized rhythmic insistence. Is that not music either? Maybe music can have different priorities, and in the case of hip-hop, it's perfectly valid that the MC's meter, flow, rhythmic trickery, language, etc. are part of the big picture?

And it's worth noting sampling & re-appropriating sounds and other music is a trick that came from... yup! Classical music. Blame the modernists.



> They must identify themsleves with something. They must be accepted by that something. They're mostly all same dressed and look similar just like teens who listen to metal music.


This can be applied to a lot of things, and I don't like that mentality either. But the fact is, from my experience, a vast majority of people who listen to metal (or punk, or hip-hop, or whatever) in 2012 dress normally. For better or worse, music is becoming isolated from subculture in the internet age, and is entering some sort of collective pop culture imagination.

The ghetto thing you're talking about is a class issue and it has little to do with music other than the fact there is music made to cater to every market. Also, while there is certainly a lot of brainless thuggery with no redeeming aspects, does a "ghetto" perspective automatically invalidate art?

"crack cocaine, pimps and whores
living up on this earth
before a ***** like daddy was born
but they be making a scene
that my music and crime are a team
but I'm speaking the truth not dreams
so what in the **** they mean
my lyrics ain't clean"
- Outkast


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

I know what people were saying back then, but honestly, old 50's and 60's rock'n'roll was also mostly based on very simple and generic tunes. I'm not that crazy about that even though there were some terrific stuff. Who would not like oldies goodies from 50's and 60's like Del Shannon's 'Runaway' or Ben E. King's 'Stand By Me'. Those music did have soul and those are classics, but there were also much garbage and rock'n'roll was most of the time only that - rock'n'roll. But sure, it was music. That was different time and people were not that much able accept to any drastic changes since music before that was mostly classical music and jazz/swing/blues that didn't change history on 'image' level like rock'n'roll what was music for young people back then. Elvis Presley was something new and 'obscene'.. lol 
'Ordinary' people become able to make music for ordinary listeners. But then again, in late 60's music once again turned into something complicated thank to The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Elton John, etc. who simply brought music to one higher level, especially considering complexity, capability for composing great tunes, originality and sometimes it was more closer to classical music in pop-rock package. Also, in Europe, we've had Morricone that was also doing something so much out of ordinary since 1961. even though he was taking isnpiration sometimes from some trendy music styles.

I wouldn't actualy compare hip-hop with that.
Sure, Outkast were always somehow interesting even though I didn't listen much to them, but that's slightly different kind of hip-hop, r'n'b, whatever they are. 
There are only 2 types of music- good music and bad music (to quote Paul McCartney) and most of hip-hop in it's core isn't anything creative to me. 
First of all, music is to me melody- base for everything else. Then originality and TALENT. Sure, rythm is also important, but listening to African drums is way more versatile and it has much more soul than hip-hop which I really never liked since it didn't bring me something, actualy anything that will make me feel satisfied on some levels. 
I like some crazy experiments and even if they are complete mess and atonal they are most of the time more inspired and meaningful than 99,9% of hip-hop can ever be.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

electronic / idm / hip-hop

Dabrye - With A Professional





Caural - Sending you colors





Shigeto - So So Lovely





mono/poly - forest dark


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

i like the music but i cant listen to the offensive lyrics.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip, this is hardly hip-hop I must watch on MTV in last 20 years 

BTW. how do you make videos to appear smaller?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nikola said:


> Philip, this is hardly hip-hop I must watch on MTV in last 20 years


What the **** is MTV?


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> What the **** is MTV?


MTV tried to force me to like hip-hop and to turned it from nothing into something to some people.


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Madlib - Slim's Return





Dela - We Will B Free





Yesterday's New Quintet - Too High


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Kero One - In All the Wrong Places





Quasimoto "Boom Music"





Mos Def - Priority


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## aaartnaz (Sep 14, 2012)

actually i admit that i find it almost all of it disgusting. but i do appreciate kanye west and eminem and 50 cent and i think their music is actual artwork to a degree. and early 90's rap music was a guilty pleasure for me back in the day.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

So basically, i'm arguing about hip-hop with people who listen to Eminem and watch MTV? Hmm...............


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> So basically, i'm arguing about hip-hop with people who listen to Eminem and watch MTV? Hmm...............


Who watches MTV ? 
I actualy don't see most of your videos as pure hip-hop. It's mix if this and that.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

aaartnaz said:


> actually i admit that i find it almost all of it disgusting. but i do appreciate kanye west and eminem


"I'm not a big fan of pop/rock, but I do like the good stuff like Nickelback and Justin Bieber"

"I'm not too into classical, except maybe Danny Elfman"


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

regressivetransphobe said:


> "I'm not a big fan of pop/rock, but I do like the good stuff like Nickelback and Justin Bieber"
> 
> "I'm not too into classical, except maybe Danny Elfman"


Don't forget Lady Gaga and Jerry Goldsmith.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I like hip hop music. I have a particular fondness for artists who create imaginative collages from sampled materials, or can utilize the turntable as an extremely expressive instrument like DJ Shadow and Kid Koala and Brian "Danger Mouse" Burton. As far as rappers go, I tend to prefer less mainstream ones like MF DOOM and Del tha Funkee Homosapien, and groups like The Roots and De La Soul, or classic stuff like Grandmaster Flash and Zapp where the rapping is a beautiful fusion of poetry and music. That being said I also like a couple mainstream artists, like Eminem (his early material) and Kanye West (though I generally think of him more as an electronic musician, along with the DJs), The Beastie Boys, Run-D.M.C., OutKast, and The Notorious B.I.G.

You know what would be interesting? A classical composer composing a piece utilizing rapping as a vocal technique for the singer. Or how about a hip-hop song in 3/4, or 6/8, or 5/4? :3

One of my composition teachers wrote a duet for nylon-string guitar and violin where he took influence from hip-hop and funk music, and he said he studied musicians like Bootsy Collins and James Brown, and apparently an instructional video on how to write a rap song. Incidentally, he is a BRILLIANT composer. Look into the work of Jorge Muñiz. Great composer.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nikola said:


> I actualy don't see most of your videos as pure hip-hop. It's mix if this and that.


So pop can evolve into auto-tune, dubstep and whatnot, but hip-hop has to be stuck in the 80's? or are you referring to 90's gangsta rap? If what you know about rap music is limited to mainstream and radio, then of course you won't think much of it.

My last posts are glitch-hop and jazz-rap, but i'd encourage you to explore the thread further.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I love Hip-Hop. My Hip-Hop friends all call me Hip-Hop-Harpy (they also know I love harpsichord music, hence the "harpy" part).


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> So pop can evolve into auto-tune, dubstep and whatnot, but hip-hop has to be stuck in the 80's? or are you referring to 90's gangsta rap? If what you know about rap music is limited to mainstream and radio, then of course you won't think much of it.
> 
> My last posts are glitch-hop and jazz-rap, but i'd encourage you to explore the thread further.


If it's not awful, it's not hip-hop then. It's simple as that to me


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

They should have a hip hop video with a harpsichord. Yo check it out. *Ding ding ding* lol


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

The problem with music today is that everything is considered equally good art. That so called 'democracy' is actualy destroying quality music for many decades. Not every genre of music is great simply because it is out there. Not every classical composition is equally great to other classical compositions.
All those mixes are actualy not hip-hop anymore. If you mix jazz with hip-hop it's something else then. And still, I don't get why people need to mix every crap together. 
At the end of the day the only important thing is talent. Not all musicians are talented and today almost every human is musician and artist and obviously not all of them have same pitch or sensibility for music, but all of them like to pretend they're artists. I'm not democratic listener. I will always say for soemthing that I consider crap that it is crap. Sure, many things are based on 'taste', but you can't stretch word 'taste' till forever. Some 'taste' sometimes only shows the lack of one.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

nikola said:


> The problem with music today


:lol: .


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> :lol: .


Ok, let's say that was always problem, but the problem was not actualy music.. the problem were always people who tried to impose some crap to majority. And sometimes, they did make it. MTV for sure did make it since 90's when it changed it politic which born many sheepkids who didn't even know how music sounded 5 years before current imposed trend. All that dance, rave, boy bends, modern r'n'b and hip-hop were sudden and big declining of commercial music.
Thank God that most of those genres are dead till today.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Do you like the word crap?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

What is the criterion of demarcation between good and crap music?


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> Do you like the word crap?


Very much! I'm sleeping with it!


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> What is the criterion of demarcation between good and crap music?


Well, if you're not tone deaf and you have certain sensibility considering music, it's too obvious then what is good and what is crap. If you're able to hear original melody construction unlike some generic crap, you know what is good music then. 
If we say that all music is equaly great we don't do favor to music like that. We simply banalyze then one of the biggest, if not the biggest art ever. Sure, there is nothing absolute and it's not good thing to generalize, but for example, it would be nonsense to say that hip-hop is on same level with classical music.
It's all about talent. Even Leonard Bernstein who did love r'n'r music back then said in 1967 that 95% of that music is trash and that is true. But 5% is what counts because that 5% is not only listenable, but great and creative on many possible levels. 
No every person on planet is capable to understand, hear properly or make music. 
I know some people that did claim they are musicians who play few instruments weren't able to see similarity in these 2 melodies:









And such person can't prove me that he/she is able to make music at all or to tell me what is bad or good since these people are obviously tone deaf. I don't play instruments and I can hear obviously the same melody in those 2 songs while musicians are not able to hear that. Ain't that sad!?

No, not all music is equaly great. 
You can't even compare in pop music mediocrity like Madonna with great talent of ABBA. Some things are not about taste. Some things are simply about TALENT and 'good music' is objective thing.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Comparing hip-hop to classical music is quite foolish... and your basis for comparison even more so. You're also completely missing out on the historical and hierarchical aspects of classical and contemporary popular music.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Philip said:


> Comparing hip-hop to classical music is quite foolish... and your basis for comparison even more so. You're also completely missing out on the historical and hierarchical aspects of classical and contemporary popular music.


Sure... of course... right... I can still hear difference between good music and crap 
I also don't remember that I've been talking about historical and hierarchical aspects of music so putting words in my mouth isn't best argument you have.
Hip-hop is mostly sociological and cultural phenomenon. That doesn't make it good. 100% pretentiousness and 0% talent... and that is hip-hop most of the time.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Hip-Hop is only good for comedy purposes.


----------



## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

The voice of Mystikal is striking and unique in the rap arena, at least to me, a kind of rushed ingenuity and improv in the lyric. It is a little too late in the enormous history of the enormously mucked-up world to bring up lapses in taste, worthiness in art etc. etc. But as a late WARNING, this video has a great deal of obsenity and cursing.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

NaS - Life's A Bitch





Big L Put It On


----------



## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Shlohmo - Places





Tokimonsta - The World Is Ours





Flying Lotus - I Dont Like You Anymore


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)




----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Mmm! I love Tokimonsta






Dilla, who used to live near me






Madvillain


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

I have recently been most fascinated by an exhibit brought out to South Africa by the France-South Africa Season. It is the "International Exhibition of Black Music" created by using videos and cell phone technology (with headphones). They have a room in which hip-hop music gets its share of attention - the last room with all the contemporary happenings in black music.

Here is my very short report on this most marvellous exhibition. From next year vistors to, and residents of, Brazil will be able to see this exhibition because that is where it is going to find its permanent home.

http://artscomments.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/international-exhibition-of-black-music/


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

nikola said:


> Ok, let's say that was always problem, but the problem was not actualy music.. the problem were always people who tried to impose some crap to majority. And sometimes, they did make it. MTV for sure did make it since 90's when it changed it politic which born many sheepkids who didn't even know how music sounded 5 years before current imposed trend. All that dance, rave, boy bends, modern r'n'b and hip-hop were sudden and big declining of commercial music.
> Thank God that most of those genres are dead till today.


Come on man, don't try to use the "MTV forced rap on us arghgh" narrative. The genre developed independently before music videos even existed, then it got lucky and turned commercial. MTV forced a lot of bad rock on us too. If you wanna talk about pre-MTV alternative music let's talk about it. I'm pretty sure I'd still be talking long after you get tired of or confused by the conversation. Otherwise, let's forget MTV.



> All that dance, rave, boy bends, modern r'n'b and hip-hop were sudden and big declining of commercial music.


Do you have a cut-off point for boy bands or electronic dance music in that statement? Were The Monkees about half a century ahead of the curb in terms of ruining modern music? Or Kraftwerk? Just curious.

There's a Herbie Hancock fusion beat I remember sounding an awful lot like it predicted hip-hop. I wonder if he is also MTV crap?


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

regressivetransphobe, it doesn't matter with or without MTV, hip-hop is always 99% pure crap to me. Even those videos here are mostly unineresting and generic hip-hop. If they're not, they're mix of something else... nu-jazz + hip-hop + guitar + synths and you have something that sounds quasi interesting, but it's still inferior style that is not even music first of all. Sampling some rythms with some uncreative repetitive 4 tones and listening to 'yeah, yo' sounds is simply not music to me. Creativity and talent: 0 %, pomposity: 100%.
And when they're trying to mix everything to invent new style it's sometimes even worse. 
I didn't say that electronic music is crap, but if I'm Kraftwerk and if they would say that I'm resposnisble for crap like techno, I would be embarrassed. Kraftwerk is good, but I've never liked their music too much since it's too cold and lifeless music for my taste what doesn't mean it's bad music at all. But that's difference- techno and hip-hop are crap, while Kraftwerk are not crap. They are just not for my taste.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

There is a lot of complex techno, actually. I'm seriously doubting that you've heard a good percentage of it.


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> There is a lot of complex techno, actually. I'm seriously doubting that you've heard a good percentage of it.


I'm almost certain that I missed SOOOO much!


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

nikola's debate skills are unmatched.


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> nikola's debate skills are unmatched.


Thank You, sir! I also think that about myself!


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

nikola said:


> I'm almost certain that I missed SOOOO much!


Yep you missed all that irritation that annoying beat would give you.


----------



## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Yep you missed all that irritation that annoying beat would give you.


Wasn't that meaning of life after all? To be annoyed?  
But you see... we don't understand! Just because something is annoying and ugly and sounds awful and uncreative doesn't mean it is not the greatest expression of art. It means that we're only unable to understand art in that. We don't know what we are missing!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm not saying that you have to like it, Nikola. I was just stating that I've doubt you heard much of it to really make authoritative statements about it. Nowhere did I state that you'd change your mind or think fond of it. Sadly, simple statements of fact are lost on you.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Doctor Flake - Amours Obscures





Fred Yaddaden - Golden Stones





Mr Teddybear - La Vague





Two Left Ears - 3*Meredith Palpite





etc.

_Compilation Chroniques electroniques - Beat Abstraction_
http://www.chroniqueselectroniques....-electroniques-beat-abstraction-75916776.html


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Is this the final stage of hip hop? Or does it represent the most controversial of a transitional period? LOL, look at how far he's come.(sarcasm all around)

I have to admit this "song" is really ****ing funny.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Is this the final stage of hip hop? Or does it represent the most controversial of a transitional period? LOL, look at how far he's come.(sarcasm all around)
> 
> I have to admit this "song" is really ****ing funny.


When a genre stagnates, it starts sounding like what your grandmother thinks it sounds like.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Has anyone mentioned "Public Enemy" yet? I just discovered them today even though I know they're very famous. But hey! I'm new at hip hop so give me a little break -.-

I like them. Groups like this remind me that hip-hop started out as a powerful expression for ignored or oppressed inner city kids. It was only after the big record companies got a hold of the art form that they turned it into misogynistic capitalist propaganda ********


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

It's worth noting the line gets real blurry. A lot of those guys, like Big L and Mobb Deep, were no no way corporate tools, but definitely had some violent, misogynistic, materialistic lyrics. Yet they were absolutely different from the new guys who do it.

When does "pandering to wannabe thugs" end and "expressing reality in a confrontational way" begin? Hard to tell. I guess a lot of it is about the _tone_ of the music. Note how gangster subject matter (at least in the east coast) moved from having eerie, dissonant, flat-out evil sounding beats to happy, slick, major key stuff in the 2000s. The new guys never got that even the violent, amoral stuff was protest music.

Public Enemy themselves were ideologically dodgy IMO, with their constant endorsement of Farakkhan (go ahead and look up some of the more controversial things he's said), among other things. But like all early rap groups they were a product of their time and I don't need to "agree" with something 100% to appreciate it.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

I've been listening to a lot of Kanye lately. Obviously my hip hop vocabulary and taste is well expanded beyond the mainstream surface that is Kanye West, but I still think that he's the best producer in hip hop. Especially MBDTF (which turned 2 years old today), but also Late Registration and College Dropout. Is anybody else here a fan?


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## etkearne (Sep 28, 2012)

I listen to hip hop extremely rarely. However, I have heard plenty of good hip-hop amongst the bad to know that there does exist good hip hop. Usually, the rapping is minimal, and when it does occur, it is lyrical, and about "deep" topics like socioeconomic stratification rather than sex. However, the parts that grab me tend to be the use of novel rhythmic syncopation even within the standard Common Time on-off beat format.

I have a friend who is really in-to underground hip-hop, so he weeds out the crap for me because he obviously knows I compose classical music and would not like radio rap. And, in turn, I have gotten him into Modernist Classical music. Pretty cool how things like that work out.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)




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## HoraeObscura (Dec 4, 2012)

Big fan of Reverse Engineering, Wu-Tang Clan and Public Enemy but I hardly listen to it any more... Too much music, not enough time


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I know that i am gonna get a lot of hate from telling this but i like few 50 cent tracks ( I don't own any of his records but i listen few tracks from him every now and then. Like once in two months.)
In da club has a catchy chorus


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## Haydn (Dec 5, 2012)

I'll say that hip hop is very musical. I love it, especially the new stuff though (50 Cent, Jadakiss, Busta Rhymes). Much of it especially those pieces with music-beats written by the likes of Dre and Elizondo are very catchy if not repetitious. Dr. Dre for instance makes excellent use of piano and strings in his works which really pays homage (in my opinion) to the orchestration of Mozart and Haydn (nothing but strings and keyboard!). He's considered the best producer because he follows in the footsteps of the best composers with his instrumental choice and even his chord progressions (minor tonic to subdominant "minorized"). On the subject of chord progressions, he somehow manages to come up with original tracks, yet every piece obeys the same progression. I'm personally a fan of works with a heavy bass (Haydn's piano sonatas usually feature a "chunky" left hand accompaniment with a strong bass line thrown in here and there usually consisting of the left hand playing low on the keyboard two notes an octave apart), and modern hip hop certainly provides the bass! The older hip hop is definitely classic. It is the father of what I honestly find a bit "spicier" and as such it is definitely worthy of praise and more serious study (much as Haydn would be in relation to Beethoven). In all it is good to see honest souls out there who can appreciate the rhythmic genre of hip hop and yes, there are other comrades out there who feel the same way.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I just can't stand that type of music. There might actually some good obscure music like etkearne says but the bad stuff is like poison to my ears. Will never understand this new generation. Music has just gone down the drain since the since the early 90's. Though there were signs of that happening even back in the 80's. I guess no one at that time thought it would get much worse later.  MTV maybe is to blame for the bad turn in music.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I used to think I was hard core when younger and listening to "1 shot 2 shot" by Eminem with my friends.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I just can't stand that type of music. There might actually some good obscure music like etkearne says but the bad stuff is like poison to my ears. Will never understand this new generation. Music has just gone down the drain since the since the early 90's. Though there were signs of that happening even back in the 80's. I guess no one at that time thought it would get much worse later.  MTV maybe is to blame for the bad turn in music.


Clear channel, the rise of yuppies, etc. Before the 80s, even a lot of hugely popular musicians didn't have execs and focus group types breathing down their necks and stifling creative control.

A lot of formerly good groups just sound tame and crappy these days, even if the music's not technically too bad. It's all flat and digital sounding, stagnant like a bowl of ****. They pare over every little beat to make it squeaky clean and miss the point of grit and soul in the process.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> I used to think I was hard core when younger and listening to "1 shot 2 shot" by Eminem with my friends.


Sounds way too recent. lol I used to listen to Marilyn Manson and Coolio. Parental Advisory cd's almost encouraged me to buy them. Those were the days. Teenage rebellion.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I can't say I ever went through a teenage rebellion phase. I remember that I was 14, I believe, when that song Clavi mentioned came out. I dislike that song and I dislike that entire album. If I were unfamiliar with golden-era hip hop and underground from the last decade, then I too would think hip hop was an anathema. The majority of mainstream hip-hop is putrid!

For what it is worth, Jani, I do enjoy the first two 50 Cent albums prior to him getting popular - _Power of the Dollar_ _and Guess Who's Back?_. Although, I do like his mainstream debut that the song you mentioned is on. After that, it went a bit downhill... prior to that he wasn't about club beats and his music was closer to the typical 90s Queens style of hip-hop (Mobb Deep, Nas, etc.) They aren't classics or anything, but decent enough. I actually haven't listened to either in years and years; perhaps I should spin them again and see what I would think today.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

This was back in 6th grade for me actually. What a messed up little hooligan eh? Actually it was my dumb friends and I was being a little tool with an amicable sense of humor. I was terrible at understanding lyrics back then anyway, I just heard the N word and said intensely many times, gun shots, and people sounding really hostile and for the shock value, I found it very funny. I never took it in the least bit seriously and I never listened to it on my own either, only when my friends were over because it would stir us into a frenzy.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Well, I suppose that definitely is the point to a lot of Eminem's music!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Especially the part about not listening to it alone, but listening to it when friends are over.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Eminem is exactly the kind of music I dislike. That and Hip Pop. Singing with rap seems even more ridiculous a combination. Shame on the Record Industry.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

> Singing with rap seems even more ridiculous a combination.


About 99% of the time this was just done to hit two major urban demographics (the rap kids and the modern r&b crowd), nothing to do with musical ideas. I guess it's possible for singing to be incorporated well into hip-hop, but usually it's some rapper who used to rap about keys and guns making a cameo in some cheesy watered down soul song.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Is bad hip hop/rap only purely annoying to you? No sense of humor about it?


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

2 cents,

Working with homeless and youth at street conditions, not judging Hip-hop as good or bad, for me has been the very best instrument to relate with them, to understand them, to know their ways of giving meanings to their lives and to challenge them so to give up drugs abuse with all the problems this behaviour has in their very special way of living.

So, far from a liking/disliking issue, I can say that I appreciate this kind of language so to cope with them.


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## purplerain (Dec 11, 2012)

Ain't no love for tha g-funk shame shame shame...
Black star is awesome. Try cormega mob deep and reasonable doubt. Give them a good listen.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

I've come to the realization I have an affinity for music with vinyl poppy noises. Like this:






If anyone knows of more vinyl poppy music let me know.

Don't just tell me to go get a beaten up vinyl of any record.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

it took many listens to "click", but ever since it has I've been astounded by the ambition packed in kendrick lamar's "good kid, m.A.A.d city"

the last hip hop release i found myself being this amazed with was MBDTF, but i don't think that this stands up to that simply because MBDTF was able to be digested as a full record _and_ a collection of great songs. GKMC packs the same punch when listened to in full, though, and is really amazing. the words "instant masterpiece" are definitely accurate


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

I remember somebody asking for hip hop that samples classical a while back and most of us agreed that it couldn't be done well...well, the last minute and a half or so of this blatantly features _toccata and fugue in d-minor_, and it uses it quite well, actually. that's the power of great production


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Listened to it as a Boy and teenager when it was worth listening...House of Pain Public Enemy Cypress Hill...Havent listend to it for a long time...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Currently listening to this. I havn't heard this album in a long time, but it is one of my favorite hip-hop albums.


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> Currently listening to this. I havn't heard this album in a long time, but it is one of my favorite hip-hop albums.


It's a good one. Great atmosphere.

I'm listening to some glitch hop.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

There is a bit of hip hop in here...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Other stuff I listned to today










MF Doom - Operation: Doomsday










Nas - Illmatic

Also listed to some of A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders and Organized Konfusion's Stress: The Extinction Agenda.

Currently listening to this










Sage Francis - Personal Journals


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Other stuff I listned to today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you have such a great taste


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Thank you. I saw you posting about Kendrick Lamar's album in the other thread here. I will check it out on your recommendation.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

but for now, I'll listen to this


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

> Nas - Illmatic
> 
> Also listed to some of A Tribe Called Quest's Midnight Marauders and Organized Konfusion's Stress: The Extinction Agenda.


My top 3 hip-hop albums, in order


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Kick ***...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

MF doom and MF Grimm's old group, the Monsta Island Czars.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Old School, that's how I roll.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Eh. Not worth ranting about.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)




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## Count (Jan 11, 2013)

Kool Keith. Even though he isn't, in general, a hip hop artist - he's done a lot and contributed tremendously towards the genre. He was apart of Ultramagnetic MC's, making waves at the time. Then when he branched off on his own he did some of the most unique 'rap' music of the time. His albums always had a different feel to them because he incorporated different genres into them, under different aliases such as Mr Nogatco and Dr Octagon (being my favourites)





Then there's Sir Menelik (Also known as Scaramanga) who's fantastic, he did some of the most interesting rap based entirely on lyrics I've heard from the late 90's/early 2000's. He's done numerous collaborations with other recognized artists at the time like Tim Dogg and Godfather Don, as well as Kool keith.





Motion Man is my favourite solely hip hop artist though, he's got his own thing completely. His beats are made by Kutmaster Kurt, who's brilliant, and his flow and lyrical projection are unmistakeable. His album Pablito's Way is still my favourite rap album of all time.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> Eh. Not worth ranting about.


Wonder what this is about?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Wonder what this is about?


How much I like Hip-Hop and Rap.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> How much I like Hip-Hop and Rap.


I feel like you're generalizing too much.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

This was the first hip hop song I remember liking:






I hate to admit that I find it catchy, but I do...


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

http://www.talkclassical.com/23349-new-song-slovakia.html


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I dream of instruments obedient to my thought and which with their contribution of a whole new world of unsuspected sounds, will lend themselves to the exigencies of my inner rhythm

but no to Hip Hop


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I even dislike the singing (RnB) style. Just everything that has anything to do with Hip Hop I can't stand. I have strong likes toward genres as well as strong dislikes. Just the way I am. Rock is more my style. Even the worst of rock isn't that bad really.  Ok maybe some extreme Death Metal band that has horrible guitar tone might be bad.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

If only all genres had sweep picking! 

Death metal with horrible guitar tones? Sounds good to me.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Especially if you are buzzing. Who cares how messy the tone is.  As long as you are rocking and not dancing.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I'd take hip hop any day over "screamo" and other related genres...


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

my god, kitty is on a roll. she is great on this track


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Make me some Atonal Hip Hop and I might consider it, only just maybe


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Make me some Atonal Hip Hop and I might consider it, only just maybe


yo dawg keep hatin in da club what's wrong with your *** *****?!?!?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

jani said:


> yo dawg keep hatin in da club what's wrong with your *** *****?!?!?


Just a little less chromatic - your getting closer.....


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

mmmmmmmmmmmmm. haven't listened to this album in what feels like forever. What a great album. The Steve Reich sample is delightful and very tasteful.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Especially if you are buzzing. Who cares how messy the tone is.  As long as you are rocking and not dancing.






rock


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I used to listen to it before it went downhill.As of now it lacks meaning & also it is violent & negative.Also not all raps are but out there.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

so, what does everybody think of _Yeezus_?


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## lll (Oct 7, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> so, what does everybody think of _Yeezus_?


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

lll said:


>


ugh, I'm not going to even bother watching that because I already know what he is going to say (or, in his case, use big words that he doesn't understand to try and say something). I'm part of the local scene he is prominent in and I've been turned off to his reviews (and reviewing in general) over the years.

is that what you think, though? At least for me, the album was very shaky at first, but I have been giving it a thorough amount of listens over the past few days and I'm really enjoying it now--when it's put into the context of the thesis statement "soon as they like you, make 'em unlike you", it's much easier to digest.


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## jrmcmichael (Jun 25, 2013)

I cannot stand to listen to any hip hop. It is infuriating. It is so poorly written lyrically. If you don't have a word to rhyme with another word, they just make it up. The subject matter is all drugs, sex, beating up women, and killing folk. It is violent, it objectifies women, and it makes all racial stereo types look true..


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

jrmcmichael said:


> I cannot stand to listen to any hip hop. It is infuriating. It is so poorly written lyrically. If you don't have a word to rhyme with another word, they just make it up. The subject matter is all drugs, sex, beating up women, and killing folk. It is violent, it objectifies women, and it makes all racial stereo types look true..


Yup, that's the only reason the genre exists. Isn't it fabulous?


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2013)

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I would like to reply to the OP by saying I like some Hip-Hop. Notably, *MC Solaar's* _Bouge de là_. Here's the link:


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

jrmcmichael said:


> I cannot stand to listen to any hip hop. It is infuriating. It is so poorly written lyrically. If you don't have a word to rhyme with another word, they just make it up. The subject matter is all drugs, sex, beating up women, and killing folk. It is violent, it objectifies women, and it makes all racial stereo types look true..


And metal is just noise and about worshipping satan!


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> so, what does everybody think of _Yeezus_?


I'm not a big fan of commercial music, so ive never been a big fan of Kanye - but holy cow. That album is seriously rocking. Some nice samples in there. I love "On Sigh" and "I am a god".


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

oogabooha said:


> Yup, that's the only reason the genre exists. Isn't it fabulous?


No it certainly is not--it sounds dreadful and for air heads---well it probably is don't you agree !


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Anyone like Hip-Hop?

Take it from whence it came.


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

What's not to love?


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

Well the hip hop you here in the media is lamestream rap/ hip hop,you have to search for real hip hop which is out there.There are still hip hop/rap music that have meaning to them.The hip hop/rap back in the day meant something to people like some LL COOL J raps.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Recently listened to Gang Starr's _Step in the Arena_. I enjoyed it, one of the few ~1 hour long hip-hop albums I've heard that I don't feel outstays its welcome.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

jrmcmichael said:


> I cannot stand to listen to any hip hop. It is infuriating. It is so poorly written lyrically. If you don't have a word to rhyme with another word, they just make it up. The subject matter is all drugs, sex, beating up women, and killing folk. It is violent, it objectifies women, and it makes all racial stereo types look true..


I agree, the commercial rap scene is more or less as you describe. There remains however a minority of credible artists - as is the case with pretty much any genre.

I'd recommend Lupe Fiasco, known for his deeply layered lyrics, wit and poignant social commentary.

*Hurt Me Soul* 




*Lamborghini Angels*


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

No Emotion is my favourite rapper currently.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

I used to work in a recovery department, is hip hop the name of the music that goes with rehabilitation after a hip-op?


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## korenbloem (Nov 5, 2012)

I love hiphop but I don't find 90% of the genre not worth my time.

Some of my favorite hip hop albums


























modern rappers/poets as: kayne west, killer mike and others also made allot a great albums. Kayne West my dark twisted.. is ofcourse a modern masterpiece. Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music was on the first listens very impressive. Death grips is a band I like to see how the develop their art


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I was just going to mention Cannibal Ox. They are great.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Anyone mention lowkey? He's one of my favorites.


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## lll (Oct 7, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> ugh, I'm not going to even bother watching that because I already know what he is going to say (or, in his case, use big words that he doesn't understand to try and say something). I'm part of the local scene he is prominent in and I've been turned off to his reviews (and reviewing in general) over the years.
> 
> is that what you think, though? At least for me, the album was very shaky at first, but I have been giving it a thorough amount of listens over the past few days and I'm really enjoying it now--when it's put into the context of the thesis statement "soon as they like you, make 'em unlike you", it's much easier to digest.


I must say, i think i agree 100% with Anthony's review. I'm very much over the auto-tune and the me-Kanye themes. I enjoyed MBDTF, looked passed its low points, eg. Kanye's singing, oh god... but this is too much. I downloaded the album, did a single run-thru, deleted it immediately.

In fact, i actually anticipated unfavourable reviews... but on the contrary!! I never even noticed the production on this record because as usual, Kanye puts out amazing quality. Nonetheless, my reflex reaction: this is just awful and i don't really care for it; i'm not even interested in the production, the superficial aesthetics of this record are too repulsive for me to delve any deeper.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Dr. Octagon











I love this. Psychedelic stuff.

Btw, Dr. Octagon is an extraterrestrial time traveling gynecologist and surgeon from the planet Jupiter.


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## lll (Oct 7, 2012)

Qwel - Vincent Van Gogh / lyrics


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

oogabooha said:


> so, what does everybody think of _Yeezus_?


Well I think he probably existed, but surely resurrection isn't possible?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

hayd said:


> Well I think he probably existed, but surely resurrection isn't possible?


And what do you think of Yohammed?


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## Count (Jan 11, 2013)




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## Guest (Feb 14, 2014)

To respond to the OP "Do I like rap", I reply: Yes, old school French rap. Bouge de là!
........................................


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2014)

To respond to the OP "Do I like rap", I reply: Yes, old school French rap. Bouge de là!


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

RAP=retards attempting poetry.REAL HIP-HOP IS HARD TO COME BY NOW.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yep Rage Against the Machine and the Beastie Boys are the last 2 great groups I know with some rap in them.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Yes, hip-hop of old is really good, some great music there. But nowadays, almost all mainstream music is mediocre and rap is perhaps the worst of it.


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