# If Classical was the Only Music Ever



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Would you be satisfied?

A big yes from me. 

:tiphat:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

There are artists in other genres I love just as much, but the majority of my collection/listening is Classical so it wouldn't hurt me too much.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

You mean there's music out there aside from classical music?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> You mean there's music out there aside from classical music?


:lol:

I feel I have wasted so much time with other music, Classical is my home, it's just fantastic. I feel blessed that I can enjoy this wonderful music!

I do love Rufus Wainwright, and have a few Jazz discs, but if those never existed, Classical would certainly suffice!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

A big yes from me also however, I do everyone is allowed his or her own music taste.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

All jokes aside, I would be satisfied with classical music alone. There are some jazz/jazz pop musicians I enjoy listening to like Chuck Mangione and Herb Alpert, but I'd be just fine with classical only. I don't think I can say that about any other genre.

Pop has it's moments of greatness though. As much as I love Haydn's sense of humor, even he would tell you that he has nothing that can compete with this _touching_ piece of music: 





:devil:


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Would you be satisfied?


 Well, this is easy .... _NO_.

:tiphat:


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Would Broadway musicals be included in the classical category? If I have to give up my show tunes, then I'm not satisfied!!


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

If classical music were the only type of music ever, I don't think it would be possible for me to assess because it would be the only kind of music I know.

If I woke up tomorrow morning and all of the non-classical music I listened to no longer existed, I would be sad. Classical music is only part of what I enjoy listening to.

One things for certain, I'd be a lot better off than a lot of society, who sees classical music as 'boring'.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Klassik said:


> All jokes aside, I would be satisfied with classical music alone. There are some jazz/jazz pop musicians I enjoy listening to like Chuck Mangione and Herb Alpert, but I'd be just fine with classical only. I don't think I can say that about any other genre.
> 
> Pop has it's moments of greatness though. As much as I love Haydn's sense of humor, even he would tell you that he has nothing that can compete with this _touching_ piece of music:
> 
> ...


Bizet has something like it in _Carmen_: Don Jose's Flower Song, where he sings about how he fantasized about Carmen while in jail. I'm assuming that his fantasies were accompanied by an activity similar to what the Divinyls were doing. Here's the song with subtitles:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Bettina said:


> Would Broadway musicals be included in the classical category? If I have to give up my show tunes, then I'm not satisfied!!


No broadway, sorry!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> No broadway, sorry!


Then in that case, I would not be satisfied with just classical. Can't give up West Side Story, On The Town, South Pacific, Oklahoma and all my other favorite musicals!!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Harmonie said:


> If classical music were the only type of music ever, I don't think it would be possible for me to assess because it would be the only kind of music I know.
> 
> If I woke up tomorrow morning and all of the non-classical music I listened to no longer existed, I would be sad. Classical music is only part of what I enjoy listening to.
> 
> One things for certain, I'd be a lot better off than a lot of society, who sees classical music as 'boring'.


Good points. But, I adore Classical music with or without the existence of other music. I don't need other genres as a reference point to understand my appreciation of Classical.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bettina said:


> Then in that case, I would not be satisfied with just classical. Can't give up West Side Story, On The Town, South Pacific, Oklahoma and all my other favorite musicals!!


They are classics..................so they count.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> They are classics..................so they count.


Are you taking over my thread, Pugg? :lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> A big yes from me also however, I do everyone is allowed his or her own music taste.


Definitely. No arguments here!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Bettina said:


> Bizet has something like it in _Carmen_: Don Jose's Flower Song, where he sings about how he fantasized about Carmen while in jail. I'm assuming that his fantasies were accompanied by an activity similar to what the Divinyls were doing. Here's the song with subtitles:


I'm not an opera fan, but I always knew I was missing something by not hearing Carmen outside of the instrumental-only version. Thanks for the reference.

I wonder if Bizet thought this up while he was worried about losing hairs over women! 

I also wonder if anyone has considered an opera about the life of Diogenes. It seems like something Mozart or Satie would have been interested in.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Classical is what I listen to over half of the time, and my favourite kind of music. But there are MANY other types of music that offers things Classical doesn't have:

Classic Blues and R&B: simple, uncluttered and heartfelt, with a very unidealized and human voice. Classical is just too calculated and refined in this context. Coarse singing can be great.
Jazz: wailing instruments, white heat thrown between various players spontaneously. Classical is too calculated again, and too conceptualized in this regard.
Rock: what else needs to be said? Screeching guitars, even recorded backwards, primal screams. Thunderous and unbuttoned down. Yes there is one analogous Classical piece, Beethoven's Appasionata, except without the human voice.
Folk: light, simplistic, mezmerizing. There is a lot in Classical similar in mood, but just different in execution.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Would you be satisfied?


 I have been satisfied with listening to classical music only since I was 15, so yes, no problem at all.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

By the way, if the criteria in great art is complexity and sophistication, I've written some computer codes that must be classified as substantial works of Art


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I would be just as (un)happy if all music that was available is pop/rock. I need both in my life.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I would be very happy as long as I have West Side Story with it!


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Klassik said:


>


I was just listening to Hauer's strange, atonal piano piece "Nomos" and then switched to this. Contrast was... significant  Almost a rapture of sorts. Just saying.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

If classical were the only music, I could get by, but I wouldn't be happy.

But also, taking away all the music of almost all of the world is a good recipe for a dsytopia.


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

An impulsive part of me wants to say "Of course! What else is there!?" But, actually my answer would be "no", and I'm very glad there are so many masterpieces of Rock and Jazz too. If you combine the two you could probably get a similar number of masterpieces/near-masterpieces as Classical (very rough estimate) -- maybe even more of the "near masterpieces variety" as Rock and Jazz are so huge. So, anyway, as much as I adore Classical music as my favorite single art form, and I suppose I would be perfectly fine living with only it, were that my only option, that whole other half of the music spectrum is also _very_ important to me. Assimilating both is _doubly_ rewarding.

After all that, I guess "technically" my answer would be "yes"


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> No broadway, sorry!


The horror!!!


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Klassik said:


> All jokes aside, I would be satisfied with classical music alone. There are some jazz/jazz pop musicians I enjoy listening to like Chuck Mangione and Herb Alpert, but I'd be just fine with classical only. I don't think I can say that about any other genre.
> 
> Pop has it's moments of greatness though. As much as I love Haydn's sense of humor, even he would tell you that he has nothing that can compete with this _touching_ piece of music:
> 
> ...


A truly amazing album that takes such music that is, at a glance, not far removed from this, to spectacular, even "symphonic" proportions, is the monumental _Original Sin_ by Pandora's Box (Jim Steinman). Probably my "guiltiest pleasure" in all of music (no sexual innuendo intended! :lol. Everything is full tilt and epic. From the all-out vocals to the orchestration/instrumentation, to the massive rhythms, to the virtuoso, Jazzy, even Romantic keyboard passages, to the grand theatrical gestures. It seems like there's no way it should work, but it becomes pretty incredible, infectious and overwhelming the more one listens to it (at least that's what happened to me and many others who adore it as a cult classic).


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Bettina said:


> Then in that case, I would not be satisfied with just classical. Can't give up West Side Story, On The Town, South Pacific, Oklahoma and all my other favorite musicals!!


The sheer craftsmanship of the best Broadway musicals is astonishing. And while, the availability of recording devices has altered the rules, one must acknowledge that the oldest of these songs have now passed the century mark and they are still around.

William Bolcolm and Joan Morris made a pretty good case for them as art songs. That's not the only way I'd want to hear them, but it reflects their merit.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes, I could live easily without other music. But never the other way round- for then there wold be no point. Some pieces you have to be able to hear for the rest of your life and only in classical music, in my eyes, can you do that.


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## Adam Weber (Apr 9, 2015)

Since I doubt my claptrap piano improvisations count as "classical", it's a no from me. Playing the piano keeps me sane.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I could easily spend the rest of my life listening exclusively to the music of J.S. Bach.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> :lol:
> 
> I feel I have wasted so much time with other music, Classical is my home, it's just fantastic. I feel blessed that I can enjoy this wonderful music!


Time spent with all kinds of other music is not wasted time. It's a cliche, but variety is the spice of life.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Then in that case, I would not be satisfied with just classical. Can't give up West Side Story, On The Town, South Pacific, Oklahoma and all my other favorite musicals!!


In taking my public irreversible oath to the music of Bach, I forgot about the music to West Side Story & South Pacific...as well as Cole Porter's Kiss Me Kate....so embarrassing....perhaps the Mods can simply delete my account.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

If it occured before i was exposed to my precious Edith Piaf, no doubt i'd be happy. After? The world would turn grey and bleak in a matter of months and the rains would weep for eternity with me.

I love many genres of music, yet i think i could manage without them. But sometimes i need to peer into the beautiful soul of the Sparrow or else, whats the purpose?


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Schumanniac, there is one piece by Schumann that sometimes I have to listen to several times it is that beautiful. Not the Symphonic Etudes although they are indeed incredible, I mean Wigmung. What do you think of that piece?


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> No broadway, sorry!





AfterHours said:


> The horror!!!


_Mamma Mia!_



AfterHours said:


> A truly amazing album that takes such music that is, at a glance, not far removed from this, to spectacular, even "symphonic" proportions, is the monumental _Original Sin_ by Pandora's Box (Jim Steinman). Probably my "guiltiest pleasure" in all of music (no sexual innuendo intended! :lol. Everything is full tilt and epic. From the all-out vocals to the orchestration/instrumentation, to the massive rhythms, to the virtuoso, Jazzy, even Romantic keyboard passages, to the grand theatrical gestures. It seems like there's no way it should work, but it becomes pretty incredible, infectious and overwhelming the more one listens to it (at least that's what happened to me and many others who adore it as a cult classic).


I'm not familiar with that one, but it does sound like a guilty pleasure!  I wonder if there is something similar in the classical world to Donna Summers' _Love to Love You Baby_.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

beetzart said:


> Schumanniac, there is one piece by Schumann that sometimes I have to listen to several times it is that beautiful. Not the Symphonic Etudes although they are indeed incredible, I mean Wigmung. What do you think of that piece?


Love most of his music but only discovered him recently through a friend! Love his Cello Concerto, and second symphony!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Bettina said:


> Then in that case, I would not be satisfied with just classical. Can't give up West Side Story, On The Town, South Pacific, Oklahoma and all my other favorite musicals!!


I could give all those up but not Mary Poppins!


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Florestan said:


> I could give all those up but not Mary Poppins!


You can still watch the movie, but you have to turn off the sound during the songs.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

JAS said:


> You can still watch the movie, but you have to turn off the sound during the songs.


What if I wear headphones?


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> What if I wear headphones?


That's ok, just make sure you turn off the sound on those too during those songs.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Since in this world I wouldn't know anything else, yes, I'd be satisfied.

Now if you banned all non-classical musics starting tomorrow, I would not at all be satisfied.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

jdec said:


> That's ok, just make sure you turn off the sound on those too during those songs.


Actually I was thinking of getting a CD with just the songs and playing it loudly with my car window open on a warm summer day.


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

Florestan said:


> I could give all those up but not Mary Poppins!





Florestan said:


> Actually I was thinking of getting a CD with just the songs and playing it loudly with my car window open on a warm summer day.


That's a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious idea!


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I could easily spend the rest of my life listening exclusively to the music of J.S. Bach.


Wait, what? :scold: But what about Brahms??


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

laurie said:


> Wait, what? :scold: But what about Brahms??


You see, hpowders digs Bach. HPowders enjoys Brahms.....and they both enjoy a fine sliver of rumcake.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Would you be satisfied?
> 
> A big yes from me.
> 
> :tiphat:


I would not be satisfied. Not if I were aware of the other genres of music, that I also listen to, having once existed.

The other genres of music I listen to (prog and avant-prog, progressive jazz, jazz fusion) have much of what I love about classical (world class musicianship, complexity, depth of emotion, etc), but have their own unique take on these attributes making them just as (or close to) important to me as classical.

There are times when I am not in the mood to listed to classical, but I am in the mood to listen to Mahavishnu Orchestra or Return to Forever, or Something avant garde like Art Ensemble of Chicago will satisfy my mood. Or Henry Cow or Thinking Plague.

Besides, if it weren't for bands like Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, Magma or other avant prog bands, I might have not been motivated to get into classical, since they are so heavily influenced by 20th century and contemporary classical.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

I would not be satisfied that I could no longer sing _I Can't Get No Satisfaction_.

Ok, not really though.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Latest version:

I could be happy for the rest of my life if I only had multiple CDs of Bach, Brahms, West Side Story, South Pacific and Kiss Me Kate....and my dog, King....just the King and I.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> You see, hpowders digs Bach. HPowders enjoys Brahms.....and they both enjoy a fine sliver of rumcake.


E. Power Biggs 
also Bach digs.

Maybe Hpowders should have some rumcake while E power plays Bach and Brahms.


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## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

I am a classical fan. I consume it far more than any other genre, that said I wouldn't be satisfied if it was the only genre. I have diverse taste in regards to music, and classical doesn't always do it for me. Sometimes hip hop is what I am in the mood for. Other times it's pop. While I wouldn't be dissatisfied if classical was the only genre, I certainly wouldn't be fully content. Of course I say this having been exposed to other genres. 
This poses a new interesting question for me, would classical have always been the only genre, or would I have been exposed to other genres and then had them taken away?
If the first were true, I would be very satisfied with classical as I wouldn't know anything else. If you ask someone who has always used the internet and technology as means of entertainment if they'd be satisfied if those had been taken away, you likely would find they wouldn't be. People who had never used any technology wouldn't be dissatisfied as they wouldn't know anything different or better.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

dillonp2020 said:


> I am a classical fan. I consume it far more than any other genre, that said I wouldn't be satisfied if it was the only genre. I have diverse taste in regards to music, and classical doesn't always do it for me. Sometimes hip hop is what I am in the mood for. Other times it's pop. While I wouldn't be dissatisfied if classical was the only genre, I certainly wouldn't be fully content. Of course I say this having been exposed to other genres.
> This poses a new interesting question for me, would classical have always been the only genre, or would I have been exposed to other genres and then had them taken away?
> If the first were true, I would be very satisfied with classical as I wouldn't know anything else. If you ask someone who has always used the internet and technology as means of entertainment if they'd be satisfied if those had been taken away, you likely would find they wouldn't be. People who had never used any technology wouldn't be dissatisfied as they wouldn't know anything different or better.


I'll leave that question up to each person to decide how they want to answer. I kind of sub-conciosully meant it both ways!


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

beetzart said:


> Schumanniac, there is one piece by Schumann that sometimes I have to listen to several times it is that beautiful. Not the Symphonic Etudes although they are indeed incredible, I mean Wigmung. What do you think of that piece?


Im actually not fond of vocal works in classical music. Lieders, masses and operas i usually just skip  I got 10-15 choral movements and arias but thats the extent of my knowlegde.

Just listened to it, its a beautiful sung melody, and the piano accompany is marvelous, but it just doesnt capture me. Instruments speaks far more soulfully than the voice to me.


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

A big yes for me. I was raised entirely on classical music, and I have always had a lot of trouble in grasping the appeal of popular music. I have learned to appreciate very little of it, though I'm always trying to appreciate more.


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

Schumanniac said:


> Im actually not fond of vocal works in classical music. Lieders, masses and operas i usually just skip  I got 10-15 choral movements and arias but thats the extent of my knowlegde.
> 
> Just listened to it, its a beautiful sung melody, and the piano accompany is marvelous, but it just doesnt capture me. Instruments speaks far more soulfully than the voice to me.


Now _that's_ surprising! I would expect you to love songs, given that your favorite is Schumann. Most I know consider him the second best in the genre; for many, he is _the_ best. He wrote a lot of great music, but, personally, I find his songs and piano music the most brilliant parts of his work. Now I'm curious: which pieces from Schumman do you like the most, and why do you consider him your favorite?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Sorry, but the question is absurd and a logical impossibility, quite like asking if you would be satisfied if homo sapiens were the only species ever. Classical music has drawn so much of its fundamental substance from folk, popular and non-western cultures over the centuries that it is and has always been a thoroughly hybrid art. The phrase structures of high classical music come directly from folk music and folk poetry, nationalist movements in every western nation have influenced melodic and harmonic styles for a couple of centuries, the exotic meters of Eastern European folk music left an indelible mark on rhythm and meter in the 20thc, blues and jazz have influenced Debussy, Ravel, Milhaud, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and countless others, Asian instruments and alternative sound worlds have transformed the orchestra and the practice of orchestration … in short, you who have answered yes to the OP's question have wished your beloved art music out of existence. You just don't realize it.


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Sorry, but the question is absurd and a logical impossibility, quite like asking if you would be satisfied if homo sapiens were the only species ever. Classical music has drawn so much of its fundamental substance from folk, popular and non-western cultures over the centuries that it is and has always been a thoroughly hybrid art. The phrase structures of high classical music come directly from folk music and folk poetry, nationalist movements in every western nation have influenced melodic and harmonic styles for a couple of centuries, the exotic meters of Eastern European folk music left an indelible mark on rhythm and meter in the 20thc, blues and jazz have influenced Debussy, Ravel, Milhaud, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and countless others, Asian instruments and alternative sound worlds have transformed the orchestra and the practice of orchestration … in short, you who have answered yes to the OP's question have wished your beloved art music out of existence. You just don't realize it.


You are right, of course, but the question is only absurd if we take it literally. If it's rephrased like this: "Would you be satisfied in listening only to [Western] classical music, excluding other Western and non-Western variants of music, including those that served as sources for the classical tradition?", then there would not be an impossibility anymore, and we would not be deviating from the spirit of the thread. I don't think the OP really meant to suggest that CM was pure from external influences or self-sufficient in its historical development. I certainly agree with you, though. Classical music could not exist without other traditions, and, sometimes, even the definition of what counts or not as classical may get blurry.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

NishmatHaChalil said:


> You are right, of course, but the question is only absurd if we take it literally. If it's rephrased like this: "Would you be satisfied in listening only to [Western] classical music, excluding other Western and non-Western variants of music, including those that served as sources for the classical tradition?", then there would not be an impossibility anymore, and we would not be deviating from the spirit of the thread. I don't think the OP really meant to suggest that CM was pure from external influences or self-sufficient in its historical development. I certainly agree with you, though. Classical music could not exist without other traditions, and, sometimes, even the definition of what counts or not as classical may get blurry.


Those who would cut themselves off from the roots of their art music tradition wish for a condition that would inevitably limit their understanding of that very tradition. That strikes me as unhealthy and, of course, elitist and prudish.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

jdec said:


> That's ok, just make sure you turn off the sound on those too during those songs.


Technically, I suppose if the premise of the thread was really true, Mary Poppins would already be an opera.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

NishmatHaChalil said:


> Now _that's_ surprising! I would expect you to love songs, given that your favorite is Schumann. Most I know consider him the second best in the genre; for many, he is _the_ best. He wrote a lot of great music, but, personally, I find his songs and piano music the most brilliant parts of his work. Now I'm curious: which pieces from Schumman do you like the most, and why do you consider him your favorite?


Yeah, i know the cause of him being considered an apex of the romantic era is primarily based upon achievements in lieder and solo piano. But i personally rate his chamber music alongside his piano pieces, there's so many hidden gems of melody and depth beyond the famous works. His cello/violin/piano concerto are all worthy of a top 5 in their genre(though often horribly performed in the case of the first two), and his symphonies are incredibly unique albeit difficult to get into, and finding good recordings are tough. To name my favourite works is something my consciousness cannot do however  Though i suppose the chamber/piano genre comes to mind for a generalization. I believe he really did achieve an equal mastery of expression outside of the piano after some trial and error, but being self-taught more than most, its more enigmatic at first and probably misunderstood.

As far why i love him so highly he just has that mysterious, reflective and highly introverted quality to his music, sprinkled with an unrestrained lucid creativity that allmost borders on the agonizing. Obsessive stalker-crazy as it sounds his music often feels like it was written for me especially, that i finally found someone that can truly understand this odd mind. Beethoven and Mozart awes, but Schumann is a close, intimate friend, like i've often said here  3rd movement of the piano Fantasy, the Andante Cantebile of his piano quartet, the dramatic 1st movement of his violin concerto and the lyrical melancholic second plus the menacing opening of his 4th symphony and a fine sound picture is painted to illustrate what it is i gain from him.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

No, I couldn't live without some good noisy guitar rock. I love classical but I also need rock n roll.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

I wish it ( CM) was the only kind of man made music, so I could escape from the rest of that rock/pop noise called music.
and nature music - sound of rain, ocean, birds - is simply ideal!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I love and need classical music but I also love and need Miles, Coltrane, Dylan, Joni, Bert Jansch, Ravi Shankar, Ani di Franco, Kristin Hersh, Manitas de Plata, Mahavishnu Orchestra usw. The list goes ever on and I couldn't live without any of them.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I'd be OK with classical music only. I wouldn't really need the rest. But I wish there was still some children's music for the little ones!


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

What?! No "Libertango" by Astor Piazzolla? No Fred and Ginger dancing to "Night and Day" by Cole Porter? No "My Funny Valentine" by Rodgers and Hart? No "If" by David Gates? No "Vincent (Starry Starry Night)" by Don MacLean? No "Classical Gas" by Mason Williams? No Makoto Ozone? Nothing to hear by Ella Fitzgerald? No way!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If classical was the only music "EVER", Dancing With The Stars would feature Mozart minuets; American Idol would be choosing Wagner heldentenors as winners and none of us would be socially shunned....

Sounds like a fine world to me!!!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This would be great. No more garbage music piped into stores. No more garbage music blasting from cars at intersections (and some so loud you hear them doing 70 mph!). The way I feel right now, I don't need non-classical. Just give me opera, tons of opera, and some symphonies and I am fine. But who knows what I might want to listen to 10 years from now. It could be all different.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

hpowders said:


> If classical was the only music "EVER", Dancing With The Stars would feature Mozart minuets; American Idol would be choosing Wagner heldentenors as winners and none of us would be socially shunned....
> 
> Sounds like a fine world to me!!!





Florestan said:


> This would be great. No more garbage music piped into stores. No more garbage music blasting from cars at intersections (and some so loud you hear them doing 70 mph!). The way I feel right now, I don't need non-classical. Just give me opera, tons of opera, and some symphonies and I am fine. But who knows what I might want to listen to 10 years from now. It could be all different.


So perhaps the utility of non-classical music is so classical music fans can look down at _those people_ who like non-classical music. Ok, sure, some classical fans look down at the Bolero and J. Strauss fans of the world, but otherwise Beethoven and Mozart symphonies would be the pop music of the world. Snooty classical music fans would have to find something else to listen to, like Medieval music, in order to feel superior over those hillbillies blasting the Ode to Joy while they roll coal in their brodozer diesel Dodge trucks!


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Florestan said:


> This would be great. No more garbage music piped into stores.


Careful what you wish for . . . you still might get Ferneyhough or a number of other composers I might mention if I were not feeling so sensitive toward the feelings of others.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Klassik said:


> So perhaps the utility of non-classical music is so classical music fans can look down at _those people_ who like non-classical music. Ok, sure, some classical fans look down at the Bolero and J. Strauss fans of the world, but otherwise Beethoven and Mozart symphonies would be the pop music of the world. Snooty classical music fans would have to find something else to listen to, like Medieval music, in order to feel superior over those hillbillies blasting the Ode to Joy while they roll coal in their brodozer diesel Dodge trucks!


Good point. The human mind will always looks for outlets.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

To answer the question in the spirit most have addressed it: No. I would feel rhythmically impoverished if I didn't have Indian Classical music, jazz, progressive rock, West African drumming and other traditions. No one in the classical world knows how to make quintuple and septuple meters swing.  I would also miss the wonders of improvised performance.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I could do without other genres except all of my favorite electronic music. I need both sound worlds. The rest I can easily do without (since classical music does everything else I like in music better anyway).


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Sorry, but the question is absurd and a logical impossibility, quite like asking if you would be satisfied if homo sapiens were the only species ever. Classical music has drawn so much of its fundamental substance from folk, popular and non-western cultures over the centuries that it is and has always been a thoroughly hybrid art. The phrase structures of high classical music come directly from folk music and folk poetry, nationalist movements in every western nation have influenced melodic and harmonic styles for a couple of centuries, the exotic meters of Eastern European folk music left an indelible mark on rhythm and meter in the 20thc, blues and jazz have influenced Debussy, Ravel, Milhaud, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and countless others, Asian instruments and alternative sound worlds have transformed the orchestra and the practice of orchestration … in short, you who have answered yes to the OP's question have wished your beloved art music out of existence. You just don't realize it.


You're taking this thread too seriously.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

> Originally Posted by Florestan View Post
> This would be great. No more garbage music piped into stores. No more garbage music blasting from cars at intersections (and some so loud you hear them doing 70 mph!). The way I feel right now, I don't need non-classical. Just give me opera, tons of opera, and some symphonies and I am fine. But who knows what I might want to listen to 10 years from now. It could be all different.





Klassik said:


> So perhaps the utility of non-classical music is so classical music fans can look down at _those people_ who like non-classical music. Ok, sure, some classical fans look down at the Bolero and J. Strauss fans of the world, but otherwise Beethoven and Mozart symphonies would be the pop music of the world. Snooty classical music fans would have to find something else to listen to, like Medieval music, in order to feel superior over those hillbillies blasting the Ode to Joy while they roll coal in their brodozer diesel Dodge trucks!


Sorry you got that partly from my post. I did not intend to look down my nose at non-classical, but I think it is pretty clear that most of what is piped into stores is rubbish and much of what is blared out of cars is too. But then one man's garbage is another man's treasure. But I think the large mass of swill music that exists in non-classical can give it a bad appearance, even though there are some excellent non-classical artists (two of my favorites, for example, being Neil Young and Johnny Cash). But I could give them up if it also got rid of the swill.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Florestan said:


> Sorry you got that partly from my post. I did not intend to look down my nose at non-classical, but I think it is pretty clear that most of what is piped into stores is rubbish and much of what is blared out of cars is too. But then one man's garbage is another man's treasure. But I think the large mass of swill music that exists in non-classical can give it a bad appearance, even though there are some excellent non-classical artists (two of my favorites, for example, being Neil Young and Johnny Cash). But I could give them up if it also got rid of the swill.


I don't look down my nose at non-classical music, but I do take great pride in my taste in music, which is ok and good to do. You don't have to be snobbish about it, in fact that attitude will make people less likely to want to learn from you or listen to your opinions.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> You're taking this thread too seriously.


No, no. I liked Ed's first version of the post better!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> You're taking this thread too seriously.


No doubt! It is my way.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

If classical music were the only music I was permitted to participate in and play, I would be satisfied. I think, however, other forms of music need to be out there, if only to remind me why I am choosing classical.

I play mandolin, and am in the process of "transitioning" from the fiddle tune and traditional genres to classical mandolin. Depending on how available mandolin orchestras and mandolin chamber ensembles are where I may live, and how much better I can get, I could easily see making the transition complete and not looking back.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

JeffD said:


> If classical music were the only music I was permitted to participate in and play, I would be satisfied. I think, however, other forms of music need to be out there, if only to remind me why I am choosing classical.
> 
> I play mandolin, and am in the process of "transitioning" from the fiddle tune and traditional genres to classical mandolin. Depending on how available mandolin orchestras and mandolin chamber ensembles are where I may live, and how much better I can get, I could easily see making the transition complete and not looking back.


That's the spirit, you will get there. :tiphat:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Klassik said:


> So perhaps the utility of non-classical music is so classical music fans can look down at _those people_ who like non-classical music. Ok, sure, some classical fans look down at the Bolero and J. Strauss fans of the world, but otherwise Beethoven and Mozart symphonies would be the pop music of the world. *Snooty classical music fans* would have to find something else to listen to, like Medieval music, in order to feel superior over those hillbillies blasting the Ode to Joy while they roll coal in their brodozer diesel Dodge trucks!


All my life I have lamented being forced to be a snooty classical music fan. Feeling superior is a grievous burden. But seeing that this has been my cross to bear, I carry it as gracefully as possible, refraining on most occasions from telling the cashiers at retail establishments that I can hardly wait to finish shopping and get out of their ******* store.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I can't play any classical music on my guitar. If it weren't for Green Day, The Ramones and Oasis riffs I would be exposed for the musical clusterf##k I really am. Hey ho.....let's go!


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

The rewards, for me, in playing classical, are different. When learning a fiddle tune you anticipate playing that tune at a jam session and getting others excited about it. The tune may be fun, and even beautiful, but the social aspect is really big.

With classical music it seems the payoff is the music itself. Working on Foure's Pavane and getting incrementally closer to what is achingly beautiful, or working on some Bach and sort of exploring his mind from a distance of 260 years, and knowing you are wrestling with technical problems that so many many many others have wrestled with, these are the kinds of transcendence available through classical music that it seems harder to find in other music.

(Keep in mind, music is entirely my avocation. There are no financial/professional/career pressures for me at all.)


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

For the purposes of this thread, what's 'classical music'?

Music that's composed by a composer, written on a score, and then played by instrumentalists?
Acoustic music?
Music that only rich people can afford to go and see?
Music about which an academic paper has been written?
Music from the 'Classical' era?

I am interested in a definition that works for future music, as well.... so not just 'music that has commonly been seen as classical so far'.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

topo morto said:


> For the purposes of this thread, what's 'classical music'?


Well the broadest categories are Classical and Non=Classical. But even then there may be some grey areas between the two.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

topo morto said:


> For the purposes of this thread, what's 'classical music'?
> 
> Music that's composed by a composer, written on a score, and then played by instrumentalists?
> Acoustic music?
> ...


It seems like there are 2 possible options for music to be called Classical music.

1. Music by composers have studied under previous teachers in the genre. Would John Cage have been a classical composer if he didn't study under Schoenberg?
2. Music composed by songwriters that mimic earlier composers in the genre like Paul McCartney.

Am I missing anything?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> For the purposes of this thread, what's 'classical music'?
> 
> Music that's composed by a composer, written on a score, and then played by instrumentalists?
> Acoustic music?
> ...


Go with what is obvious. It's hard to define the exact criteria, be intuitive with it for the purposes of this thread.


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## Robert Gamble (Dec 18, 2016)

Hell no (with a cherry on top.. since 'Hell no' is too short)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Oh well....looks like we are being pressed into service to write another PhD for a ummm... "poster". :lol:


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Go with what is obvious. It's hard to define the exact criteria, be intuitive with it for the purposes of this thread.


My intuition can guide me as to the past - music that has been 'labelled' already - but not so much the future.

It was suggested by another poster on this forum that there's no musical idea or sound that should be out of bounds to classical music. Is this true (for the purposes of this thread)? Or are there some sounds, musical techniques, and theoretical ideas, that classical music doesn't cover?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

topo morto said:


> My intuition can guide me as to the past - music that has been 'labelled' already - but not so much the future.
> 
> It was suggested by another poster on this forum that there's no musical idea or sound that should be out of bounds to classical music. Is this true (for the purposes of this thread)? Or are there some sounds, musical techniques, and theoretical ideas, that classical music doesn't cover?


You talking about the "what makes a great composer" thread? I think we have to separate Classical music from musical theory. Musical theory is all encompassing, while Classical music is not. Classical Music doesn't have all the same chord progressions as other genres, nor the same timbres, nor conventions in general. It is true it pushes musical theory much further than any other genre, though. But it is generally more abstract and in some cases idealized. Which I don't think it was dealt with in that thread. Blues and Rock serve a more specific purpose. One can say a repeated guitar riff, or drum rhythm is boring, but there is impact gained from repetition to a certain degree. Depends on the listener mostly, but there are stuff in other genres other than classical that it cannot replace.

An example is there is dance in Classical Music, like in Beethoven's 7th Symphony. But can that replace the dance music in the Talking Head's Songs about Buildings and Food? Hell No! Also is there any classical music that is funky? Is a person any less more shallow for liking funky stuff? I would say otherwise, that a person that won't give funk a try is not open enough, equivalent to someone who doesn't want to explore Baroque, Medieval, or Modern Classical. I know of some Classical 'fans' that don't listen to anything much outside of the Classical lollipops and consider themselves better off than listening to any non-classical.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Also is there any classical music that is funky?


Of course! Walter Murphy to the rescue:


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Here is the joke from the outside - if you are playing it wrong, its classical.

In other words, seriously, if someone can legitimately or meaningfully say that there is no wrong way, it ain't classical.


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Depends on the listener mostly, but there are stuff in other genres other than classical that it cannot replace.


That's the thing then. To be honest.... not only would I not be able to restrict myself to classical, I'd really rather give up the classical than the non-classical. It's not that I like the classical less, but that to an extent I can substitute some of the experiences some classical music gives me by some other life experiences - looking at a sunset, trying again to understand undergraduate math, reading a book....

...but nothing would make up for having nothing to dance to....


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> That's the thing then. To be honest.... not only would I not be able to restrict myself to classical, I'd really rather give up the classical than the non-classical. It's not that I like the classical less, but that to an extent I can substitute some of the experiences some classical music gives me by some other life experiences - looking at a sunset, trying again to understand undergraduate math, reading a book....
> 
> ...but nothing would make up for having nothing to dance to....


Oh, you can dance to classical, and if you are having trouble, your not letting yourself go enough! Please take a look at Thom Yorke of Radiohead dancing in their video for their song Lotus Bloom if you want to see what I am talking about!


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Oh, you can dance to classical, and if you are having trouble, your not letting yourself go enough! Please take a look at Thom Yorke of Radiohead dancing in their video for their song Lotus Bloom if you want to see what I am talking about!


But letting _your_self go is... half the fun at best. Get _all _the fun by letting yourself go to music that's letting _it_self loose emotionally... without falling apart rhythmically.... which is what lets the dance go on.

Currently past my bedtime and we're dancing to (NSFW)



 and 




Don't worry, I'll still be waking up to Radio 3...


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## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

Eh, classical is by far my favorite, but I also enjoy film scores, 60's rock, and even a little folk and bluegrass. But I wouldn't miss them terribly. But as a Christian, hymnody is a very important part of worship for me and a few million fellow believers, so I'm afraid I'd be very dissatisfied if classical were the only game in town.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

drnlaw said:


> Eh, classical is by far my favorite, but I also enjoy film scores, 60's rock, and even a little folk and bluegrass. But I wouldn't miss them terribly. But as a Christian, hymnody is a very important part of worship for me and a few million fellow believers, so I'm afraid I'd be very dissatisfied if classical were the only game in town.


Oooh, I didn't think of that. Let's hope that this thread is exclusive of worship music.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Also is there any classical music that is funky? .


There is that section in Beethoven Piano Sonata 32 that a modern ear cannot un-hear a sort of funky jazzy kind of thing. Who knows how it was perceived at the time but I can't make it not sound like a bar room piano.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

topo morto said:


> But letting _your_self go is... half the fun at best. Get _all _the fun by letting yourself go to music that's letting _it_self loose emotionally... without falling apart rhythmically.... which is what lets the dance go on.
> 
> Currently past my bedtime and we're dancing to (NSFW)
> 
> ...


Then we will simply agree to disagree, and that is ok!


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Klassik said:


> Of course! Walter Murphy to the rescue:


This is so wrong and right at the same time.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Lenny said:


> This is so wrong and right at the same time.


It's not even Walter Murphy's best work. Of course, he's best known for a Fifth of Beethoven:






But if disco isn't your thing and you want to dance to classical music, I present to you Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart...salsa style!
















To be honest, the Beethoven and Bach ones aren't half bad. The Mozart one probably crosses the line into total ridiculousness though.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Klassik said:


> To be honest, the Beethoven and Bach ones aren't half bad. The Mozart one probably crosses the line into total ridiculousness though.


Nooooo! This insults my feelings as a CM and prog enthusiastic, and as human.

Seriously, I kind liked the salsa Beethoven 5th .


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## Rach Man (Aug 2, 2016)

If Classical was the Only Music Ever ... what would we sing at children's birthday parties?


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

If Classical were the only music ever....

Realistically, I would not know what I was missing and therefore would not miss it. However, in the spirit of the OP, I would miss some jazz (Brubeck, Shearing, Bill Evans, Ellington) and I would definitely miss the alt-lieder of Tom Lehrer. 

I would definitely not miss - indeed, would welcome never hearing again - contemporary 'pop' music.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Rach Man said:


> If Classical was the Only Music Ever ... what would we sing at children's birthday parties?


See my posting. Children's birthday parties are much improved by a spirited rendering of 'Poisoning Pigeons in the Park' or, if the parents are of a religious inclination, 'Vatican Rag'.


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## Rach Man (Aug 2, 2016)

If Classical was the Only Music Ever ... what would we sing at futbal/soccer matches?


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## topo morto (Apr 9, 2017)

Rach Man said:


> If Classical was the Only Music Ever ... what would we sing at futbal/soccer matches?


I think this would come under the category of 'worship music', as mentioned a few comments ago!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes, in the sense that there is more than enough in the Classical Music canon to satisfy me for several lifetimes - and as posters above have pointed out, it would be all that I knew.

But no in the sense that Classical Music is not 'enough' for me now. 
Where would I be without folk songs and folk dance music? 
Where would I be without *nursery rhymes*?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What would be America's National Anthem?


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Ingélou said:


> Where would I be without *nursery rhymes*?


You would still have berceuses though!


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Although I definitely wouldn't distraught, as I can still find a great physical release in classical music, I'd be a little dismayed that Exile on Main St was no longer in the world...

That said, pretty much everyone needs music in some way, so many people would grudgingly end up turning to classical music and then eventually uncover the revelatory light which escapes very few who really bother with classical. Which can only be good.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What would be America's National Anthem?


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Tallisman said:


>


Well, it's the national anthem of beef if nothing else! I figure a Sousa march could work well. Some might say that Fucik's Entry of the Gladiators would work as well, but we won't go there!


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

Schumanniac said:


> Yeah, i know the cause of him being considered an apex of the romantic era is primarily based upon achievements in lieder and solo piano. But i personally rate his chamber music alongside his piano pieces, there's so many hidden gems of melody and depth beyond the famous works. His cello/violin/piano concerto are all worthy of a top 5 in their genre(though often horribly performed in the case of the first two), and his symphonies are incredibly unique albeit difficult to get into, and finding good recordings are tough. To name my favourite works is something my consciousness cannot do however  Though i suppose the chamber/piano genre comes to mind for a generalization. I believe he really did achieve an equal mastery of expression outside of the piano after some trial and error, but being self-taught more than most, its more enigmatic at first and probably misunderstood.
> 
> As far why i love him so highly he just has that mysterious, reflective and highly introverted quality to his music, sprinkled with an unrestrained lucid creativity that allmost borders on the agonizing. Obsessive stalker-crazy as it sounds his music often feels like it was written for me especially, that i finally found someone that can truly understand this odd mind. Beethoven and Mozart awes, but Schumann is a close, intimate friend, like i've often said here  3rd movement of the piano Fantasy, the Andante Cantebile of his piano quartet, the dramatic 1st movement of his violin concerto and the lyrical melancholic second plus the menacing opening of his 4th symphony and a fine sound picture is painted to illustrate what it is i gain from him.


Thank you for the comprehensive explanation!


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Those who would cut themselves off from the roots of their art music tradition wish for a condition that would inevitably limit their understanding of that very tradition. That strikes me as unhealthy and, of course, elitist and prudish.


Considering classical music inherently superior may be elitist and prudish, but that's not really what the question is asking. Also, that's not really anyone's wish, really (well, it probably is _someone's_, but you would not know it from their answer). Those who would be ok with the OP's hypothesis are just those for whom the classical tradition already fulfills enough of their own personal needs, at least to the point that there would be no significant distress for them if other traditions did not exist. Being personally satisfied with a magical conjecture and actually thinking it would be a good idea are entirely unrelated attitudes. And who are you to say what really fulfills the needs of others? Wouldn't it be an elitist and prudish conclusion as well, just like those assumptions not touched by the question? It kind of expects music and music history to be at the heart of each person's identity, when this is quite often not the case. It's not like everyone's enjoyment of the world is dependent on traditions they are not acquainted with or don't care for, nor like everyone is obliged to enjoy everything. Or do you think the regular citizen is unhealthy because he does not listen to Beethoven? You may or may not think so, but either way, I don't think he is. Again, wishing those traditions to be erased would be bad, as would be being satisfied with their inexistence in a collective level. Neither of those are really in the spirit of the question, though.

As far as I am concerned, I like music and music history and other cultures, I acknowledge their importance and I would not wish for them to be erased. But does _what I know of_ this music hold an essential role in my identity? I mean, it surely holds an important and valuable role, but I'm not sure it's _essential_. I entertained the idea of becoming an ancient historian when younger, so I probably value more than most small details, the importance of cultural products we don't know and may never know or the _actual_ danger of something's existence being erased for us. Even so, since I am interested in ancient history, I also know we already lost most of it, and some important parts we are unlikely to recover. Yet, I still live well, even though I resent all losses at some level, and some, even, at a very deep level. The fact we lost almost all Greek lyric poetry makes me want to cry. However, music is a secondary interest for me, so, although I would lose many things if _no_ music existed, I would probably still live very well, to be honest. It's certainly important to me, but I don't think it's all that essential. And that is not a problem, just as it's not a problem if most others here did not shed a tear for Sappho. Again, denying her importance would be different, of course, but a question like the OP's would not really touch on this point, so I would not know the responders' position on the issue simply from them answering yes.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> You would still have berceuses though!


and the magic flute!


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

If classical music was the only music, then Hitler would have won


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

NishmatHaChalil said:


> *Considering classical music inherently superior may be elitist and prudish, but that's not really what the question is asking. *


Nor was that what I said! My point was that it is elitist - and strange - to claim one has no use for non-classical music when the substance of the music one listens to derives from seventeen kinds of (formerly or currently) non-classical music. It's like someone with 60% Hungarian blood saying they can't stand Hungarians.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> It's like someone with 60% Hungarian blood saying they can't stand Hungarians.


That is entirely possible if that person has decided to reject Hungarinanism and joins some other society, perhaps the Khoikhoi (a.k.a. Hottentots).


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I think pop was necessary for me as a teenager needing to devour music and I wouldnt listen to classical when I was under 20. I still fondly recall my pop heroes (pink floyd, queen etc - and blondie!) from those days. It still sounds rather good.


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## NishmatHaChalil (Apr 17, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Nor was that what I said! My point was that it is elitist - and strange - to claim one has no use for non-classical music when the substance of the music one listens to derives from seventeen kinds of (formerly or currently) non-classical music. It's like someone with 60% Hungarian blood saying they can't stand Hungarians.


But that's not what the question is asking either, so you have no way of assuming that from anyone's response. I'm quite sure I have some use for many kinds of music, but I'm not sure there is any music at all that is essential for me.


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