# We want to do concerts!



## Jaws

I often hear, "we want to do concerts" from community orchestra members. I never hear "why would anyone want to listen to us?" 

It seems to me that the people who want to play in concerts don't realise that for them to do a concert means that someone else has to do some listening to them. Do you think that this lack of realisation is caused because many community orchestra players never do any community orchestra concert listening?


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## MaestroViolinist

Well, if they want to do concerts they can go into an eisteddfod as "Non-competitive". Even if they're adults, they just have to go into the open section. Then, if they play there a few times and get heard, and then they hold there own concerts, well then maybe someone would come and listen to them.


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## Meaghan

There are plenty of people who like to listen to community orchestras. In a lot of small towns where there are no professional orchestras nearby, they sometimes provide the only opportunity to hear live classical music. And even in cities, they provide a less expensive (and, for some people, less intimidating) concertgoing experience. I, for one, am glad community orchestras play concerts. The idea that if you can't sound like a prestigious professional orchestra you shouldn't even perform is a bit of a peculiar one, I think. Not all listeners are so discerning, and among those who are, there are still those who can perceive and enjoy the spirit of a performance even if it is not at the highest possible technical level.


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## Sid James

^^Yes, and often the community orchestras have for example professional guest soloists or singers, doing a concerto or song-cycle with them. I think they do it for nothing, or virtually nothing. The aim is accessibility as you say, and also the members of the orchestra learn from the guest musicians. But goes without saying (well, here anyway) that the conductors of these community orchestras are professionally trained, or say completing a postgraduate degree.


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## SuperTonic

If everyone in the orchestra can get a few family members or close friends to show up, even a small community orchestra could draw a decent sized audience.


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## Lunasong

If you look for an opportunity to perform at an existing community festival or fair, you'll have a ready-made audience. I think it's great that the orchestra members want to perform for others and not just for themselves. 
If you advertise in the Community Notices section of a local paper, it's usually free. Also use social media to invite people (ie create an event on Facebook).


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## Jaws

*For occasional concerts I agree*



SuperTonic said:


> If everyone in the orchestra can get a few family members or close friends to show up, even a small community orchestra could draw a decent sized audience.


This is quite true. However what I don't understand is why community orchestra players don't attend as audience members other community orchestra concerts? They should be the biggest fans of community orchestra concerts but they don't go to listen to each others concerts? I live in London and in a 7 mile radius of where I live there are at least 3 community orchestras that are the same standard. I would be very surprised if any of the playing members of any of these orchestras had been to a concert given by one of the other 3. I would have thought that if you want people to listen to your concerts then the least you can do is to listen to someone elses?

I agree that the players can learn from pro soloists, but they can also learn from pro soloists who are playing with other community orchestras, and as this music is supposed to be more accessible that must be the case for members of other community orchestras as well as friends and family?

I have no idea why playing members of one orchestra do not attend other orchestras' concerts. It makes me think that they are not actually interested in community music making at all? If they are not interested in community music making, why do they go to their orchestra, and why do they want to play in concerts? To me this doesn't make sense. Logically if they were interested in community orchestra music making and community orchestra concerts, they would go to hear other community orchestra concerts, but they don't do this. I would like to know why they don't go? I would also like to see if anything can be done to make sure that only people who are prepared to listen to other people's concerts get to play in ones of their own?


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## Jaws

Meaghan said:


> There are plenty of people who like to listen to community orchestras. In a lot of small towns where there are no professional orchestras nearby, they sometimes provide the only opportunity to hear live classical music. And even in cities, they provide a less expensive.


This is not true in London where I live. Here advertising community orchestra concerts makes no difference to the size of the audience as all audience members are connected to the players, or the venue. The tickets are not cheaper, they are usually more expensive than the cheapest tickets for professional orchestra concerts. The concerts are usually held in churches and anyone sitting further back than the 4th row of the audience has a restricted view of the orchestra, or no view at all.


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## Jaws

MaestroViolinist said:


> Well, if they want to do concerts they can go into an eisteddfod as "Non-competitive". Even if they're adults, they just have to go into the open section. Then, if they play there a few times and get heard, and then they hold there own concerts, well then maybe someone would come and listen to them.


People do go and listen to them, but many of them never go to listen to anyone else. I find this really odd.


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## Jaws

Lunasong said:


> If you look for an opportunity to perform at an existing community festival or fair, you'll have a ready-made audience. I think it's great that the orchestra members want to perform for others and not just for themselves.
> If you advertise in the Community Notices section of a local paper, it's usually free. Also use social media to invite people (ie create an event on Facebook).


I know what you mean. But they don't think of it as performing for others. Some of them don't do any individual practise or bother to learn their parts properly. I don't think they think of it in terms of what the audience might get out of the concert only the fact that they themselves like playing in concerts. In many ways they appear to be very selfish. In my experience they never go to listen to any other community orchestra concerts.


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## Jaws

Meaghan said:


> There are plenty of people who like to listen to community orchestras. In a lot of small towns where there are no professional orchestras nearby, they sometimes provide the only opportunity to hear live classical music. And even in cities, they provide a less expensive (and, for some people, less intimidating) concertgoing experience. I, for one, am glad community orchestras play concerts. The idea that if you can't sound like a prestigious professional orchestra you shouldn't even perform is a bit of a peculiar one, I think. Not all listeners are so discerning, and among those who are, there are still those who can perceive and enjoy the spirit of a performance even if it is not at the highest possible technical level.


Just wondered what you would think of this one? Recently I have heard of an amateur orchestra concert where one of the pieces was a disaster. So many of the players got lost during the concert that one movement of a symphony ended in silence in the middle of the movement before it picked up again. I think even the least discerning audience member might have realised that something had gone very wrong.


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## Lunasong

I have been to school (middle school through college) concerts and yes, one professional orchestra concert where the conductor stopped the group and started again. I've been to concerts where the band was barely hanging together as things started falling apart, but continued on through. In no instance did it terribly disturb me, although it did amuse me (as entertaining as a train wreck!). In the case of the professional orchestra, I could not tell what had gone wrong (found out later it was something in the percussion).

I think playing out of tune bothers me more  I am also a patron of a high level amateur orchestra and they have intonation problems.


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## Jaws

*They aren't children*



Lunasong said:


> I have been to school (middle school through college) concerts and yes, one professional orchestra concert where the conductor stopped the group and started again. I've been to concerts where the band was barely hanging together as things started falling apart, but continued on through. In no instance did it terribly disturb me, although it did amuse me (as entertaining as a train wreck!). In the case of the professional orchestra, I could not tell what had gone wrong (found out later it was something in the percussion).
> 
> I think playing out of tune bothers me more  I am also a patron of a high level amateur orchestra and they have intonation problems.


What bothers me most here in the UK is the terribly low standard of adult music education provided by the conductors of many of the orchestras. Many conductors offer no education as to phrasing, intonation, dynamics, balance and only seem to concentrate on notes.

Many players here are unaware of their actual playing standards, and appear to think that they have much more skill than is actually the case. This causes misunderstandings with many of them not realising how low their skill level is, and many of them not realising that they need to practise.

Without a conductor or some other professionally trained person telling them the truth about how well they play how can they understand the level of their skill?

Many amateur orchestras in the UK give performances that are of a lower standard of playing skill than many youth orchestras. Youth orchestras have members who are still learning about general adult education standards, and many parents are pleased to attend any event that their child is taking part in.

Many of the adults who play in amateur orchestras have extensive work experience in their own jobs but seem to be incapable of understanding how little they know about playing music, and no one tells them anything. I am sure that if many amateur players were actually aware of how low their skill standards were they would be mortified to think that they had not only asked people to listen to them play in concerts, but had also asked them to pay for tickets.

To not tell them anything about the level of their skills could be argued to be very patronising?


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## MaestroViolinist

If they think they can play better than they actually can, well then they wouldn't take any advice from a person with training. 

As to phrasing etc. well I was in an orchestra (but it was a high school one) and the teacher knew nothing about phrasing so how could he tell us what to do?! :lol: 

(Sorry, this post wasn't very helpful...)


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## Jaws

MaestroViolinist said:


> If they think they can play better than they actually can, well then they wouldn't take any advice from a person with training.
> 
> As to phrasing etc. well I was in an orchestra (but it was a high school one) and the teacher knew nothing about phrasing so how could he tell us what to do?! :lol:
> 
> (Sorry, this post wasn't very helpful...)


Some of the orchestras have professional conductors, so even if when they are conducting a pro orchestra all the phrasing is done by the very highly skilled professional players, the conductors should be able to tell the difference when the phrasing isn't there at all. If they can't help the orchestra members play better, what on earth are they doing conducting an amateur orchestra when they have nothing to offer except note learning? Would amateur orchestras get more out of their rehearsals if they chose conductors who had qualifications in adult education as well as conducting?


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