# Thoughts on composers' works for children



## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

I'm curious to hear what people think about the theme of childhood in classical music - either music about children, music for children to listen to, music for children to play, etc.

To my knowledge this was mainly done by romantic-era composers. I am a big Schumann fan, and he has many works in this category - obviously Kinderszenen (about childhood) and Album für die Jugend (for children), but he also composed others, including a set of twelve pieces for piano four hands, and Kinderball.

I also think of Debussy's Children's Corner, and Ravel's Ma Mere L'Oye.

I think that most of these stand well on their own as serious art, and I listen to a few of them regularly. In Schumann's case, it fits well into his overall body of work, and they don't feel "out of character" for Debussy or Ravel, either. On the other hand, there are definitely composers who I can't imagine writing something in this category (Wagner comes to mind).

What do you all think? Do you view these as limited in any way due to their purpose or subject? Does it say anything to you about a composer that they either did, or did not, write this kind of music?

Album für die Jugend, no. 30 (untitled):





Ma Mere l'Oye, no. 5 (Le jardin féerique):


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

One notable composer for children was Erik Satie. In his Enfantines, he didn't write for children so much as he wrote as a child, so it does sound characteristically like Satie but is written even simpler.

The purpose of these pieces was to prepare children to become familiar with how modern music sounds. To keep children interested, many pieces are written just on the white notes on the keyboard, and they have a running commentary underneath.

I think it is an interesting pedagogical concept, though I don't listen to them much because they are so basic.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

My piano teacher let me play Bartok's _For Children_ in my earliest teens, and this founded my future interest in him.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

My favorite work of this kind is Humperdinck's _Hänsel und Gretel_, but I don't know if you can legitimately say that it was written _for_ children.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Ravel's Prelude is another example, I like playing that on piano. There is also Rodrigo's Five Children's Pieces, the second movement is one of my favorite pieces of music.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I had a good CM friend who once remarked that if he had the ability, he would want to write another Peter and the Wolf.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

mossyembankment said:


> I'm curious to hear what people think about the theme of childhood in classical music - either music about children, music for children to listen to, music for children to play, etc.


I like music about children/childhood and I would endorse music for children to listen to/play but the latter category has certain artistic limitations. Schumann`s _Kinderszenen_ is artistically superior to _Album für die Jugend_ for instance but one should not disregard the extra-musical (pedagogical) functions of the latter.

Here`s a work which has some in it from both categories:


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> My favorite work of this kind is Humperdinck's _Hänsel und Gretel_, but I don't know if you can legitimately say that it was written _for_ children.


Indeed it was; composed at the request of his sister for a school play with music and it eventually expanded into the full blown opera. It is one opera where you can safely take younger kids. If the witch is done well it scares and delights them as much as The Wizard of Oz. H&G is a popular seasonal show all over the world, and even though it was originally written for children the orchestral parts are not kid's stuff: it's very, very difficult to play.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Someone needs to mention Britten. Oh, OK, I will. His Young Person's Guide and his Noye's Fludde, for example. 

I can also remember finding Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf fun when I was young. And Lieutenant Kije when I was a little older. 

And, then, everything in Fantasia ... including some pieces you wouldn't think of for children except when there are cartoons of dinosaurs or what have you.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

I find most compositions by 20th century composers to be fairly unpleasant, however some of the works I do enjoy from these same composers were often written for children. Notable examples would be Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf, and Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra. I think their attempts to write an approachable piece for children, makes their work less "intellectual", and therefore as far as I am concerned more "conventional" and approachable. I love those two works.


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## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

I'm enjoying all the interesting recommendations and thoughts!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I continue to enjoy many of the ones already mentioned.

*Saint-Saens' *_Carnival of the Animals_ is often coupled with the Britten and Prokofiev. Apart from _The Swan_ it was published posthumously, the narration added later. Beatrice Lillie's version is brilliant:






These two recent ones are also suitable for adults and children alike.

*Debbie Wiseman's* _Different Voices_ is about a bunch of children saving a park from a property developer. It reads like a contemporary take on _Peter and the Wolf_.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nFui6fdAnICLRPAGaN01hLSuhmnVjTbKo

*Katy Abbott's* _The Peasant Prince_ relates the experiences of a ballet dancer who emerged from humble beginnings in China. It is narrated by the author Li Cunxin, and there are versions in English and Mandarin.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOmkcuw-QlZ0Lguhq2NgMiw


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

A particularly special moment in my journey with classical music was when I listened to Prokofiev's Love for Three Oranges Suite while suffering from a high fever (I had the 'flu). I must have been 8 or 9 and somehow the music got tangled up with my fevered dreams to make an almost mystical experience. Arguably this was all a misunderstanding of the music - I certainly heard no comedy - but I can still hear what I heard then nearly 60 years later. Children don't need "children's music" - they can find a route in to some pretty serious stuff. Dinosaurs made the Rite of Spring magic for generations of children but who now would choose the Rite as a piece for children?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Carl Orff may well have written more music for children than anyone else, but it was for demagogic purposes.

Paul Hindemith wrote a really nice work called _Tuttifäntchen_, about a puppet who falls in love with the daughter of the man who made him.

Another cute children's work by Benjamin Britten was the opera _The Little Sweep_.

I think children's music could actually have been a good discipline for a composer, as he/she had to put him/herself into the mind of a child and write something which they think the young would appreciate. In today's prevailing climate I do shudder to think what might occasionally result, though - we live in a far more socio-politically driven era in which young schoolchildren are perhaps just as much subliminally indoctrinated as actually taught. As W.B. Yeats said, 'The ceremony of innocence is drowned...'


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## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> Children don't need "children's music" - they can find a route in to some pretty serious stuff.


I agree that children don't necessarily need music written specifically for them (though I don't see how it can hurt) - and by the same token, there is music written for children that I would be sad, as an adult, to no longer be able to listen to, because it is great music in its own right.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

haziz said:


> I find most compositions by 20th century composers to be fairly unpleasant, however some of the works I do enjoy from these same composers were often written for children. Notable examples would be Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf, and Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra. I think their attempts to write an approachable piece for children, makes their work less "intellectual", and therefore as far as I am concerned more "conventional" and approachable. I love those two works.


Britten based the work on the Rondeau movement of Purcell's Abdelazer suite. A flashback to the baroque era.



Sid James said:


> *Saint-Saens' *_Carnival of the Animals_ is often coupled with the Britten and Prokofiev. Apart from _The Swan_ it was published posthumously, the narration added later. Beatrice Lillie's version is brilliant:


Originally written as a joke, it remains one of Saint-Saens' most well known pieces.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Does Poulenc's L'Histoire de Babar count? I understand it was dedicated to 11 children. My recording is in French with no translation, so I'm a little clueless.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

progmatist said:


> Britten based the work on the Rondeau movement of Purcell's Abdelazer suite. A flashback to the baroque era.
> ................................


I am aware of that. It still is a fine work. Composers often create variations on themes and melodies of earlier composers. It does not detract from the composition. His development of Purcell's melody, and the orchestration across the different sections of the orchestra was brilliant.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

haziz said:


> I am aware of that. It still is a fine work. Composers often create variations on themes and melodies of earlier composers. It does not detract from the composition. His development of Purcell's melody, and the orchestration across the different sections of the orchestra was brilliant.


My point is, modern works based on older works would always be more accessible than other, more pretentious modern works.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

There's also Tchaikovsky's delicious little "_Children's Album_" for piano ...

Generally, the varied and contrastful is to be preferred from the overly sweet in this genre, IMO; if not, it's more like nostalgia for the adults ...


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Let's not forget Brahms' Lullaby  
Probably one of the most well known melodies in the world; it's in every other baby toy that plays music...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Manxfeeder said:


> Does Poulenc's L'Histoire de Babar count? I understand it was dedicated to 11 children. My recording is in French with no translation, so I'm a little clueless.


I came back to say I've got this recording of it in English. Kara Wilson narrates and Lydia Melleck plays piano:





Its on an album called _Musical Tales for Children_:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n40Fl4_XN1uPH7bH07GkU77NqxEr6sm-Y



progmatist said:


> Originally written as a joke, it remains one of Saint-Saens' most well known pieces.


You're right, it was basically written as an entertainment for Saint-Saens' private soirees. He only published _The Swan_, because he thought critics would damn the rest as being frivolous. The irony is that once it was published after his death, it became one of his biggest hits. Saint-Saens' dry sense of humour suited the Roaring Twenties, when after the most devastating war, people where weary of profundity. The score was highly creative and even innovative, the _Les Six_ group in particular would have drawn plenty of inspiration from it.


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