# What are the landmark recordings of solo piano music by Schoenberg and Webern?



## Mandryka

I mean the ones that have made a real contribution to the reception history.


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## joen_cph

Difficult one ...

Overall, _Gould_ and_ Pollini _are of course the most well-known and distributed names as regards the solo works. _Steuermann_´s production should also be on the list, as an earlier artist befriended with Schoenberg.

But I like _Marie-Francoise Bucquet_ in Schoenberg, a stereo Philips LP, yet strangely not re-released, but with a clarity and fluent phrasing that is delightful and freshly raindrop-like.

_Arrau_ is great and seems romantically coloured to me in Schoenberg´s opus 11, but unfortunately the piano sounds somewhat out of tune, IMO 




Cascioli, Arciuli and Klein have included some of the lesser known Webern pieces in their sets, rarely heard otherwise.

_Cascioli_ (DG) is really great in this lesser known Webern - his "Klavierstuck Im Tempo eines Menuetts" is a fascinating microcosmos, for example.

_Elizabeth Klein_ (Classico) is really awful and dull, she was simply too old to record the complete works when she did.

I´ve also got _Arciuli _(Stradivarius) who is OK, though not spectacular.


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## satoru

Hi,

I'd like to add two entries to the list by joen_cph: Peter Hill and Mitsuko Uchida. The album by Uchida contains solo piano works in addition to the concerto. Hope you enjoy them!















Best,
satoru

PS. Oops, I missed the "reception history" part... sorry


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## satoru

OK, fueled by the shame from my own post above, I did a little a bit of research on the topic.

Some of early records of Webern Op 27

1951 Jacques Monod
1954 Glenn Gould (CBC)
1954 Jeanne Manchon-Theis
1954 Leonard Stein
1956 Paul Jacobs
1957 Glenn Gould (Harmonia Mundi)

As you can see, Monod was ahead of all others. He was also the champion of the Second Viennese School music in US. From that perspective, I think we can give Monod the credit. Meanwhile, five records by Gould were released for this particular piece, unmatched by any pianists. Gould also frequently performed this piece in concerts. So, it can be said that even though Monod was the early champion, but Gould contributed for the wider reception. The acclaimed recording by Pollini was from 1976, so less of importance in the historical perspective.

References:
http://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/...s-piano-variations-on-record#performance-data




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques-Louis_Monod

I haven't done the same research for Schoenberg yet.

Thanks!
Best,
satoru


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## hpowders

Yes. I love the Uchida album. Quite a versatile pianist.


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## Mahlerian

For Schoenberg, one early champion was Eduard Steuermann, who premiered the Piano Concerto. Gould of course championed Schoenberg's piano works for his career, and Pollini made some of the best recordings of the solo works in the 70s (although I agree that Uchida's version of the Concerto tops his).


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## joen_cph

satoru said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to add two entries to the list by joen_cph: Peter Hill and Mitsuko Uchida. The album by Uchida contains solo piano works in addition to the concerto. Hope you enjoy them!
> 
> View attachment 43336
> View attachment 43337
> 
> 
> Best,
> satoru
> 
> PS. Oops, I missed the "reception history" part... sorry


I heard mp3-samples of *Peter Hill*´s recording, and indeed, there´s a remarkable freshness and vitality about it, maybe surpassing Bucquet. I´ll be ordering this very soon.

Also, I realize I didn´t really pay enough notice to this one in my collection, the *1950s CBC Gould* (budget issue), but it is superlative, including a very dramatic recording of the Piano Concerto (and Berg´s Sonata). I prefer this recording of the concerto to Steuermann/Scherchen, among the historical ones.


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## science

Edit: I'm sorry, I totally misunderstood this thread.


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## Mandryka

Thanks to everyone for responding to my initial request. There are some interesting suggestions - especially Jacques Monod, who I had never heard before. Also Peter Hill, coincidentally I have been impressed by his Catalgue d'oiseaux recently and just today I played his Webern op 27 and it is indeed very fine. I'm looking forward to getting to know this pianist better.

As far as Schönberg is concerned, one recording which I think is a major landmark in the reception history is Herbert Henck's. That's partly through the depth of feeling in the performances, but also because it was the first (the only?) recording of the fragments in the nachlaß.


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## science

Mandryka said:


> Thanks to everyone for responding to my initial request. There are some interesting suggestions - especially Jacques Monod, who I had never heard before. Also Peter Hill, coincidentally I have been impressed by his Catalgue d'oiseaux recently and just today I played his Webern op 27 and it is indeed very fine. I'm looking forward to getting to know this pianist better.
> 
> As far as Schönberg is concerned, one recording which I think is a major landmark in the reception history is Herbert Henck's. That's partly through the depth of feeling in the performances, but also because it was the first (the only?) recording of the fragments in the nachlaß.
> 
> View attachment 43442


Just curious, what is the date of that recording?

I love Henck's recording of Cage's _Music of Changes_.


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## Mandryka

science said:


> Just curious, what is the date of that recording?
> 
> I love Henck's recording of Cage's _Music of Changes_.


1994.

I'm really impressed by Henck, I think he's a great pianist. In Cage, Barraque, Stockhausen especially.

I listened to loads of op 19/6 today -- Hill's was specially good I thought -- for the emotional and for the way the he made it all sound coherent and flowing. These op 19 pieces are dedicated to Mahler I think -- or is it just op 19/6?


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## Mahlerian

Mandryka said:


> 1994.
> 
> I'm really impressed by Henck, I think he's a great pianist. In Cage, Barraque, Stockhausen especially.
> 
> I listened to loads of op 19/6 today -- Hill's was specially good I thought -- for the emotional and for the way the he made it all sound coherent and flowing. These op 19 pieces are dedicated to Mahler I think -- or is it just op 19/6?


The book Harmonielehre was dedicated "To the memory of Gustav Mahler". Op 19/6 was written after Schoenberg witnessed Mahler's funeral, but wasn't dedicated to him as far as I know.


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## mikey

Boulez has recorded the complete Webern.
Karajan's Schoenberg album of verklarte nacht and Pelleas
Hollywood Quartet's verklarte nacht is a landmark recording.


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## satoru

Boulez recorded Webern's pieces twice (once for the Op pieces and then Op+everything). I have both sets (and love them!), but, in my personal opinion, the piano is not as good as Gould, Hill or Uchida. I haven't checked much of other pianists on the list coming up here. Certainly I'll check Herbert Henck. A pianist specialized in 20th modern music? Sure! Interestingly, his entry on Wiki is in German or Japanese, no English.

Are we expanding the discussion from "solo piano" to all? Then certainly Hermann Scherchen must be included on the list. 

Best,


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## Mandryka

satoru said:


> Boulez recorded Webern's pieces twice (once for the Op pieces and then Op+everything). I have both sets (and love them!), but, in my personal opinion, the piano is not as good as Gould, Hill or Uchida. I haven't checked much of other pianists on the list coming up here. Certainly I'll check Herbert Henck. A pianist specialized in 20th modern music? Sure! Interestingly, his entry on Wiki is in German or Japanese, no English.


Agreed about Gould and Hill (I've only just started exploring Hill)

Is anyone in the mood for getting clear on Gould's discography of Schoenberg and Webern? How many recordings of Schoenberg op 23 are there, for example? He's very good in op 23.


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## joen_cph

Concerning *Gould and Webern* at least:

This site http://www.mus.cam.ac.uk/directory/shadows-of-meaning-webern2019s-piano-variations-on-record mentions 5 recordings by him and states "_Gould's five recordings embody a remarkably consistent interpretive evolution_". There´s a discograhy in the link, but I don´t have that office programme.

Some quick googling etc. results in these 4:

- CBC, January 1954
(Gould´s essay written for the concert can be read here http://www.uv.es/~calaforr/Webern/gould.htm)

- Moscow, 12th of May 1957 (melodiya) 




- CBC 23-24th April 1964 (Sony, mono). Video, in black & white https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJOTDov_oI4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V_niGEXisA

- Video, in colour 



 (date ??; later)


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## satoru

I should have included more details for the Webern's recordings. The spread sheet I downloaded from the link in my previous post doesn't have detailed dates of the recording, but it has all 5 by Glenn Gould.

1954 CBC Records,	PSCD 20306
1957	Chant du Monde/Harmonia Mundi, LDX (2?)78799
1964	Sony Music Entertainment,	Glenn Gould Collection VIII: Interweaving Voices
1970	Sony Classical,	SMK 52661
1974	EMI Classics,	DVB 4901279

I'm not sure for the other bootleg releases.

Regarding the Schoenberg's Op 23, there is only one official recording by Gould released in 1966.


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## mikey

satoru said:


> Are we expanding the discussion from "solo piano" to all? Then certainly Hermann Scherchen must be included on the list.
> 
> Best,


woops, misread


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## Vaneyes

Jacobs and Pollini for Schoenberg. GG for both.


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## Mandryka

It's extraordinary how, in OP 23 (Schönberg), Gould manages to make the music sound stuffed with tunes you can hum! I guess part of the reason is the extraordinary slow tempos he chooses. I wonder what the modernists here think of playing it like that, whether it loses some feeling of boldness, newness.

As far as I know noone else plays like that.


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## Mahlerian

Mandryka said:


> It's extraordinary how, in OP 23 (Schönberg), Gould manages to make the music sound stuffed with tunes you can hum! I guess part of the reason is the extraordinary slow tempos he chooses. I wonder what the modernists here think of playing it like that, whether it loses some feeling of boldness, newness.
> 
> As far as I know noone else plays like that.


I prefer Pollini's 23, personally, but Gould's take on Schoenberg is always welcome (and he does hum it, too!).

What's really fascinating to me is his take on the Suite. An earlier live recording in mono has him taking it at about normal tempo, but the Columbia recording has him slowing the Intermezzo down to about half of Schoenberg's metronome marking, and taking the Gigue at breakneck pace. All intriguing stuff.

Anyway, I'm always wondering when I listen to a Schoenberg work who this other guy with the same name is whom people keep complaining about. In many of these works I hear nothing but melody, line after lyrical line.


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## Janspe

I don't know if I'm a bit biased, being a huge Uchida fan, but I really loved her take on the Webern variations! The CD in question also includes the Berg piano sonata op. 1, Schoenberg's op. 11 & 19 and above all else, a magnificent Schoenberg piano concerto with Pierre Boulez and The Cleveland Orchestra. 

I wonder if anyone else finds this CD as great as I do?

/edit Ugh, of course I didn't notice that this thread had two pages (browsing with a mobile device makes me lazy) and the Uchida CD already received some praise on the first page. Oh well, I like the CD too!


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## Mandryka

Zoltan Kocsis recorded Schoenberg's op 19, as far as I know the recordings have never been released till now - they are available through Hungaroton's website. Very beautiful and Brahmsian, well worth hearing in my opinion.


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