# Favorite painting movement



## TudorMihai

Which one is your favorite painting movement? I selected a list of the most famous ones. Alternatively, you can name your favorite painter.


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## Manxfeeder

Lately mine has been Abstract Impressionism/Color Field painting since I saw an exhibition in Nashville a couple years ago, and it blew me away. 

My favorite painter at this point is Mark Rothko. I also think Remedios Varo is interesting. Of course, Georgia O'Keefe always keeps my attention.


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## Sid James

I like pretty much all of them but my favourite three are Romantic (esp. John Constable, J.M.W. Turner & Delacroix), Post-Impressionist (Van Gogh, Gauguin, Toulouse-Lautrec, Cezanne, etc.) and Surrealism (Magritte, Ernst, Dali, etc.).

I forgot to pick "other" for Australian painting, which doesn't always fit neatly in the European/American trends (eg. Australian Aboriginal art which is amazing in itself) and also naive art (eg. Henri Rousseau) and folk arts.


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## StlukesguildOhio

To me the movement that towers over all others until the broader period of "Modernism" which encapsulates Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, Expressionism, Cubism, Surrealism, Abstract Expressionism, etc... is the Renaissance. This shouldn't be surprising as the Renaissance and Modernism brought forth the two greatest shifts in the history of Western Art. 

I would be hard pressed to pick a single favorite painter... from either movement. The Renaissance, after all, boasts of Michelangelo, Leonardo, Raphael, Botticelli, Bosch Brueghel, Van der Weyden, Durer, Titian, Giorgione, Veronese, Fra Angelico, Fra Filippo Lippi, Simone Martini, Correggio, and a slew of other masters. Among the Modernists my favorites include Degas, Pierre Bonnard, Matisse, Max Beckmann, Paul Klee, Redon, Monet, Gauguin, Van Gogh, Klimt, Schiele, etc...

In spite of this... many of my favorite artists were active during other eras: the Baroque, the Rococo, Neoclassicism, Romanticism: Rubens, Vermeer, Rembrandt, Boucher, Van Dyck, Turner, Ingres, Goya, William Blake, etc...


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## Novelette

I feel like Mannerism should not be subsumed under the category of Renaissance. It was an interesting shift in techniques and styles. But I suppose it's a bit like the Rococo. Different, yes, but similar enough to the broader, epochal category to be subsumed without must trouble. 

Still, I though I would give it an honorable mention.


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## Art Rock

Expressionism, favourite artists include Marc, Macke, Schmidt-Rotluff, and from other periods Monet, van Gogh and Rothko. And my wife.


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## Manxfeeder

Art Rock said:


> Expressionism, favourite artists include Marc, Macke, Schmidt-Rotluff, and from other periods Monet, van Gogh and Rothko. And my wife.


I'm glad you mentioned Rothko. I've been demeaned in another forum for bringing up my appreciation for his works. I can't understand why if you've actually seen some of them in person.


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## Manxfeeder

StlukesguildOhio said:


> To me the movement that towers over all others until the broader period of "Modernism" which encapsulates Impressionism, Post-Impressionism, Expressionism, Cubism, Surrealism, Abstract Expressionism, etc... is the Renaissance.


I was looking forward particularly to your response. Thanks.


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## quack

I've always liked Futurism.


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## Xaltotun

I bow before the altar of Neoclassicism, while listening to Beethoven.


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## aleazk

Mainly 20th century and late 19:

Impressionism
Expressionism 
Postimpressionism 
Surrealism
Cubism
Abstract


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## Sid James

Novelette said:


> I feel like Mannerism should not be subsumed under the category of Renaissance. It was an interesting shift in techniques and styles. But I suppose it's a bit like the Rococo. Different, yes, but similar enough to the broader, epochal category to be subsumed without must trouble.
> 
> Still, I though I would give it an honorable mention.


Yes well regarding Mannerism, I quite like some of Tintoretto's stuff. Some of his use of light/dark contrast (chiaroscuro) looks ahead to Caravaggio (who is classified as Baroque, isn't he?). But that psychologically penetrating self portrait he did in old age knocks me out, in terms of that kind of intensity which in terms of its effect on me at least has the same intensity of eg. Rembrandt's or Van Gogh's self portraits.


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## Novelette

I was not familiar with this self-portrait.

In fact, I quite forgot about Tintoretto. 

I'm always fond of dark [in terms of color, not necessarily content] paintings.

---

On an unrelated note, my typing is deteriorating in accuracy and quality. If my piano playing is as poor as my typing, I'm in trouble.


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## Sid James

^^Well I'm glad I mentioned that self portrait then, cos I think its a masterpiece basically.

In terms of chiaroscuro, I also like Georges de la Tour (but he's Baroque, similar period to Caravaggio).

But with Mannerists, I like the Venetians, another one that comes to mind is Veronese. But I like Venetian art generally, eg. Tiepolo, those light pastel-like colours (even though some would say he's near kitsch, he's from the late Baroque/Rococo) and also Canaletto. There's something in the way these guys all captured light, come to think of it...


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## StlukesguildOhio

I feel like Mannerism should not be subsumed under the category of Renaissance. It was an interesting shift in techniques and styles. But I suppose it's a bit like the Rococo. Different, yes, but similar enough to the broader, epochal category to be subsumed without must trouble.

I would not in any way put Mannerism and the Renaissance together. Mannerism, in many ways, was a direct reaction to and against the Renaissance. Pert of this was spurred on by a sense of angst and anger against the previous generation following the sack of Rome carried out by the mutinous troops of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor.

The army of the Holy Roman Emperor defeated the French army in Italy, but funds were not available to pay the soldiers. The 34,000 Imperial troops mutinied and forced their commander, Charles III, Duke of Bourbon and Constable of France, to lead them towards Rome. On 6 May, the Imperial army attacked the walls at the Gianicolo and Vatican Hills. Duke Charles was fatally wounded in the assault, allegedly shot by the artist, Benvenuto Cellini. The death of the last respected command authority among the Imperial army caused any restraint in the soldiers to disappear, and they easily captured the walls of Rome the same day. One of the Swiss Guard's most notable hours occurred at this time. Almost the entire guard was massacred by Imperial troops on the steps of St Peter's Basilica. Of 189 guards on duty only the 42 who accompanied the pope survived, but the bravery of the rearguard ensured that Pope Clement VII escaped to safety, down the Passetto di Borgo, a secret corridor which still links the Vatican City to Castel Sant'Angelo. After the brutal execution of some 1,000 defenders of the Papal capital and shrines, the pillage began. Churches and monasteries, as well as the palaces of prelates and cardinals, were looted and destroyed. This event marked the end of the Roman Renaissance, damaged the papacy's prestige and resulted in a huge loss of Rome's population which dropped from some 55,000 before the attack, to a meager 10,000. An estimated 6,000 to 12,000 people were murdered.

In response to this horrific event many Roman and Florentine artists began to work in a manner that intentionally rejected the idealism, the classicism, and the naturalism of the High Renaissance. The "classicism" of the Renaissance was equated with the Papacy's Imperial aspirations. Mannerism was a style of extreme artifice, angst-laden distortions rooted in the late works of Michelangelo, and uncertainty.

In the painting of the High Renaissance there is a beautiful naturalism... rooted in a masterful understanding of anatomy and physiology, linear and aerial perspective, form and space.


-Raphael- _Portrait of Baldasare Castiglione_


-Raphael- _The School of Athens_

With Mannerism we get distorted and confusing representations of space...


Parmigianino- _Self Portrait in a Convex Mirror_


Parmigianino- _Madonna and Child_

The Mannerists employed unsettling distortions of the human anatomy, uncertain narratives, and often a decadent eroticism...


Bronzino- _Allegory of Time/Venus_


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## StlukesguildOhio

They often fractured form or flattened things in an almost Cubist manner...


Rosso Fiorentino- _Deposition_

Where the Renaissance painters would lead the eye to the most important elements of the painting through the use of composition, value, and perspective (note how perspective leads the eye to the central figures of Aristotle and Plato in Raphael's _School of Athens_) the Mannerisms would often create a void at the center or focal point of their painting (as in the central void beneath Christ's arm in Rosso's _Deposition_ below) to suggest the emptiness, uncertainty, chaos, or meaninglessness of life.


Rosso Fiorentino- _Deposition_

While the ideas of Mannerism spread throughout Europe, the elements and ideals of the Renaissance remained firm in many places... especially Venice... in the works of Titian and Veronese:


Titian- _Danae_


Veronese- _The Marriage at Cana_

As Mannerism spread north into the Netherlandish and Germanic countries it merged with their native Expressionism dating back to Rogier van der Weyden:


Rogier van der Weyden- _Deposition_

and the Gothic:


-Figures from Chartres Cathedral


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## StlukesguildOhio

The resulting work often merged the expressive distortions with an obsessive and often perverted eroticism:


Hans Baldung Grien- _Three Witches_


Lucas Cranach the Elder- _Venus and Cupid_


Hendrick Goltzius- _Danae_



Joachim Wteael- _Perseus and Andromeda_ (one of the artist's least "pornographic" paintings)

There was also an obsession with extremes of violence:


Benvenuto Cellini (the one from the siege of Rome)- _Perseus with the Head of Medusa_


Hendrick Goltzius- _Dragons Devouring the Companions of Cadmus_


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## StlukesguildOhio

Mannerism came to an end as the result of the brilliant work of a later Roman painter who was certainly not adverse to sex and violence. Almost single-handedly, Caravaggio gave birth to the Baroque with his paintings of dramatic realism that rejected all the artifice of Mannerism:


Caravaggio- _Deposition_


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## StlukesguildOhio

But with Mannerists, I like the Venetians, another one that comes to mind is Veronese. But I like Venetian art generally, eg. Tiepolo, those light pastel-like colours (even though some would say he's near kitsch, he's from the late Baroque/Rococo) and also Canaletto. There's something in the way these guys all captured light, come to think of it...

Most art historians do not categorize the Venetian painters Titian, Tintoretto, Veronese, or Tiepolo as "Mannerists". Nearly all of them were impacted by elements of Mannerism... but they also held firm to the Renaissance ideals and influence of earlier Venetian painters, such as Bellini and Giorgione. Tintoretto's distortions of form and space come closest to Mannerism...



















Tiepolo was quite a bit later, and usually is categorized as Rococo. I would not deem his work as "kitsch" at all. Certainly it is lighter than the Baroque in the sense that Mozart is "lighter" than Bach... but he produced some stunning paintings:










The Immaculate Conception may be over-copied... but that's not the fault of Tiepolo.









_Apollo and Daphne_ is a stunner...










... as is the _Education of the Virgin_...










... and the _Martyrdom of St. Bartholomew_. There is a certain theatricality and airiness to these paintings that reminds me of Baroque opera.


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## Sid James

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...
> 
> Most art historians do not categorize the Venetian painters Titian, Tintoretto, Veronese, or Tiepolo as "Mannerists". Nearly all of them were impacted by elements of Mannerism... but they also held firm to the Renaissance ideals and influence of earlier Venetian painters, such as Bellini and Giorgione. Tintoretto's distortions of form and space come closest to Mannerism...
> 
> ....


Well I did read books calling Tintoretto Mannerist & wikipedia says he's that as well. Veronese is similar and I didn't say anything about Titian (I think he was older, but his late stuff points towards Mannerism). Tiepolo is of course not Mannerist, he comes in the picture much later. However I am not an expert in this and its been ages since I read them. It may be that Mannerism is like a bridge between Renaissance & Baroque. An extension of one and pointing towards the other. Maybe like some of Van Gogh's paintings looked towards Expressionism. The sculptor Cellini is also sometimes referred to as Mannerist, as is another fav of mine, Arcimboldo (the painter of those surreal heads made of all manner of things, eg. fruit).


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## StlukesguildOhio

The US Wikipedia (certainly not the ultimate arbiter upon any such matter) states:

"Veronese, Titian, and Tintoretto constitute the triumvirate of pre-eminent Venetian painters of the late Renaissance..."

All three painters were near contemporaries. Titian was born a generation earlier than Tintoretto and Veronese... but his death was but a decade before Veronese's and a little more before Tintoretto's. Mannerism never fully took hold in Venice which had a very different painting tradition from that of Florence and Rome... and one that was equally strong. Certainly, elements of Mannerism worked their way into Venetian painting... especially that of Tintoretto who sought to usurp Titian as the towering figure of Venetian painting through the employment of the latest "ism"... but even Tintoretto holds on to many essential elements of Renaissance painting.

Tintoretto, for example, made dramatic use of rushing perspective:









-_St Peter and the Apparition of the True Cross_









-_The Miracle of St. Mark/the Slave_

Unlike the Mannerists, Tintoretto employs this "distortion" as a means of reinforcing the drama and focusing the eye upon the focal point in a manner that points toward the Baroque.

In spite of a degree of Mannerist-influenced distortions of the figures, Tintoretto's paintings as a whole retain a sense of naturalism that owes more to the Renaissance:









-_The Birth of the Milky Way_









-_Ariadne_

Like Titian, his compositions are more organic... based upon curves and spirals as opposed to more static geometric forms... but this owes more to the fluid nature of oil paint that allowed the artist's to paint directly on the canvas with little need for preliminary compositional studies, and in this again these artists point toward the Baroque... and especially Rubens.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Of the three great masters of the late Renaissance in Venice, Titian showed the least interest in Mannerism. Of course by the time Mannerism began to spread, Titian was established as the leading painter of Venice. The only paintings that show a real influence that might be deemed "Mannerist" is in a series of ceiling paintings informed by the works of Michelangelo:









-_Cain and Abel_









-_The Sacrifice of Isaac_

In these paintings, Titian employs a point of view that results in certain distortions as well as a harder contour and attention to the delineation of the musculature that is clearly owed to Florentine and Roman painting... especially the work of Michelangelo.

Titian's late works, however, show no influence of Mannerism whatsoever:





































Rather, they display an ever increasingly organic approach to composition, a loose, bravura brushwork, and subtle blurring of edges and forms that points the way toward the Baroque (especially Rubens, Van Dyck, and Rembrandt), Romanticism, Impressionism, and beyond.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Veronese was the young upstart who burst upon the painting scene of late Renaissance Venice just as Titian was entering his later years, and Tintoretto had hopes of becoming his successor as the great Venetian master. In spite of Jacopo Comin's or Jacopo Robusti's nick-name: "Tintoretto," which meant "little dyer" (he was a dyer's son) and later was assumed to denote his profession as a painter and colorist, Tintoretto was actually the least masterful colorist among the trio including Titian and Veronese. His use of dramatic darks and blacks were a partial cause of this... as was his notorious speed in painting.

Veronese, on the other hand, was undoubtedly the greatest of all the Venetian colorists. Artists well into the 19th and 20th centuries have continued to learn from Veronese's use of pure clean colors in the dark areas of his paintings.



















To the same extent as Titian, Veronese points toward the Baroque... and even the Rococo... with his light touch... yet remains firmly rooted in the tradition of the Renaissance.



















Perhaps the closest Veronese comes to Mannerism is in his audacity in shaking up the traditional iconography of certain religious themes. One such painting is Veronese's most brilliant: the _Marriage at Cana_...










...currently housed in the Louvre. This painting illustrates the narrative of the Wedding Feast at Cana, a miracle story from the Christian New Testament. In the story Jesus and his disciples were invited to a wedding celebration in Cana in the Galilee. Towards the end of the feast, when the wine was running out, Jesus commanded servants to fill jugs with water, which he then turned into wine. Christ sits at the center of the painting. Above him a lamb (symbol of Christ) is being slaughtered. In front of him are a group of musicians including Veronese (in white) across from Titian (in red). To their right a brilliantly attired aristocrat in a dramatic pose (the bride's father) incredulously holds forth a glass of water now become wine.

Other people thought to be portrayed in the painting are Eleanor of Austria, Francis I of France, Mary I of England, Suleiman the Magnificent, Vittoria Colonna, Emperor Charles V, Marcantonio Barbaro, Daniele Barbaro, Giulia Gonzaga, Cardinal Pole, Triboulet, and Sokollu Mehmet Paşa. The painting also includes drunks, flirtatious young ladies, and various animals.


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## StlukesguildOhio

A huge painting of _The Last Supper_ which included German soldiers, comic dwarves, and a variety of animals led to an investigation by the Inquisition. The artist was forced to rename the painting, _Feast in the House of Levi_.










The controversy surrounding the painting, and its creative resolution, were echoed in the 1960s Monty Python comedy sketch:


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## Weston

I suppose my favorite "-ism" is surrealism, but probably not in the way intended by its practitioners. For me it is a kind of escapist illustration -- and I know "illustration" has been a vulgarity in the minds of fine artists, at least when I was in school. But then I am an illustrator so  .

My favorite surrealist then is Yves Tanguy. He takes me to places no one should know of.










Close behind Tanguy is Roberto Matta who depicts some kind of massive interdimensional battlefields.










In the 1950s, 60s and 70s, I believe Matta and Tanguy both inspired surrealist and science fiction illustrator (that word again) Richard Powers, whom I got to meet a couple of times.









And also the great and all too humble Paul Lehr, another surrealist (and science fiction illustrator  ) who was a childhood hero of mine, but who I'm deeply saddened to say befriended me just a couple of years before he passed away. He was a wonderful human being.









I'm also very fond of Vermeer, and I suppose you would call them post-romantics, John Singer Sargent, John William Waterhouse and the like. Then there are the mystics like Odilon Redon. And the artist who tried to represent sound in his watercolors, Charles Burchfield. My tastes are all over the map, just as with classical music, but I'll always have a soft spot for artists who would take me to distant exotic states of being and who make at least a little effort at suspending my disbelief by being representational in some way.


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## Couchie

I like pastels, as in the Martha Stewart collection.


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## Sid James

StlukesguildOhio said:


> The US Wikipedia (certainly not the ultimate arbiter upon any such matter) states:
> 
> "Veronese, Titian, and Tintoretto constitute the triumvirate of pre-eminent Venetian painters of the late Renaissance..."...


Well I think that there is a case for Tintoretto at least being a Mannerist late in his life. Its like Pissarro who had such a long life, by the end of his life he was post Impressionist, whereas he'd began as being among (or allied to) the original group of Impressionists. Monet is maybe similar, his style changed so much, and he also had a long life.

Anyway these labels are the same as in music, I think they are inaccurate in cases of these transitional periods. When you get "late" one thing and the other thing it leads to, you get overlap and a case of fuzzy boundaries. Eg. look at the debates we've had here about whether Beethoven and Schubert are late Classical Era or early Romantic Era or both. That's the kind of thing I see this late Renaissance versus Mannerist thing being.

I was thinking of painting like this by Tintoretto:










That light/dark contrast or chiaroscuro & expressive quality looking forward to Caravaggio:










I'm not disputing your investment or knowledge of this area, its just that I always saw Tintoretto as Mannerist and though I don't have time to check now, I'm certain I can dig up art scholars who'd say the same (wikipedia is often a good start, and the intro blurb on the Tintoretto page there mentions Mannerism).

But I agree that the Venetian tradition if you like developed in different/separate ways from the rest of Italy, I see it as much like say contrasting the music coming out of Rome (eg. Palestrina) and Venice (Monteverdi) during the Renaissance era.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I suppose my favorite "-ism" is surrealism, but probably not in the way intended by its practitioners. For me it is a kind of escapist illustration -- and I know "illustration" has been a vulgarity in the minds of fine artists, at least when I was in school. But then I am an illustrator so.

Yes... when I attended art school the terms "illustrational" or "Illustrative" as well as "narrative" were deemed the height of insults. All that Greenbergian Formalism...


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## StlukesguildOhio

Well I think that there is a case for Tintoretto at least being a Mannerist late in his life. Its like Pissaro who had such a long life, by the end of his life he was post Impressionist, whereas he'd began as being among (or allied to) the original group of Impressionists. Monet is maybe similar, his style changed so much, and he also had a long life.

Anyway these labels are the same as in music, I think they are inaccurate in cases of these transitional periods. When you get "late" one thing and the other thing it leads to, you get overlap and a case of fuzzy boundaries.

I would take this even further an suggest that these labels are always fuzzy approximations... abstractions through which we try to make sense of what in reality is an endless array of artists with individual goals and interests.

Look at the term Impressionism. Most of us probably have a decent idea of just what Impressionism means... but look at the great variety of art that falls under the term:

We have early Manet:










and early Degas:










and early Monet:










and then we have the very painting from which the term "Impressionism" came (_Impression; Sunrise_)...










Quite removed from Monet's early works... from his works at the peak of Impressionism:










... or from his late works:










...


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## StlukesguildOhio

And then we have late Renoir:










Late Degas:










... and even artists like Bonnard... painting well into the 20th century:










There was a great animosity between Degas and Monet... in spite of both being central figures of Impressionism. Degas infamously suggested that the police should start shooting all those plein air painters cluttering up the landscape. Of course Degas was a studio painter with little interest in landscapes or spontaneity. His idols were Ingres and Raphael. Renoir, while close friends with Monet, had an abiding love of Rococo painting and the nude... and Pissaro... as you suggest... became deeply interested in the Post-Impressionist technique of "Pointillism" late in his career:










... and was also one of the few Impressionist who was close with Cezanne.

Ultimately, the groupings and "isms" are just a way to create a clear and logical narrative of the development of art... but the reality is far more chaotic.


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## StlukesguildOhio

But I agree that the Venetian tradition if you like developed in different/separate ways from the rest of Italy, I see it as much like say contrasting the music coming out of Rome (eg. Palestrina) and Venice (Monteverdi) during the Renaissance era.

The Venetian Renaissance has been called "the golden age" of painting by many... and I am certainly among the great admirers of the period from Bellini and Giorgione through Titian, Tintoretto, Veronese... and eventually Tiepolo. I was lucky enough to have seen a major exhibition of Venetian Renaissance painting in Washington D.C. a few years back that focused on the close relationship between Bellini, Giorgione, and Titian. As an art student, I loved Tintoretto (all that rushing perspective and figures seen from odd angles) and I made numerous drawing copies after his paintings in various museums. I only came to really appreciate Titian and Veronese later... quite likely through Rubens. I'm probably not quick to place any of the late Renaissance Venetians within the grouping of Mannerists in part for the simple reason that I am not all that fond of Mannerism... a movement I find was often overly "mannered"... overwrought... and often simply ridiculous:










I can almost picture Adam in a 1970's disco-era leisure suite with the shirt open baring his hairy chest and gold chains.:lol:


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## Sid James

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...
> 
> Ultimately, the groupings and "isms" are just a way to create a clear and logical narrative of the development of art... but the reality is far more chaotic.


That's right. I think the Impressionist movement if you wish, as well as post-Impressionism, is a good example of this. I mean in terms of Australia, as I said it often falls outside what was going on overseas. You look at the group called the Australian Impressionists, and they are markedly different from the European ones.

Another good example is what I mentioned before, some of Van Gogh, especially his late works look forward to Expressionism. I actually had a book on Expressionist Painting which included Van Gogh. He's not in the movement strictly speaking, but painters like Soutine and Kokoschka would have drawn some influence from him at least.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...
> 
> The Venetian Renaissance has been called "the golden age" of painting by many... and I am certainly among the great admirers of the period from Bellini and Giorgione through Titian, Tintoretto, Veronese... and eventually Tiepolo. I was lucky enough to have seen a major exhibition of Venetian Renaissance painting in Washington D.C. a few years back that focused on the close relationship between Bellini, Giorgione, and Titian. As an art student, I loved Tintoretto (all that rushing perspective and figures seen from odd angles) and I made numerous drawing copies after his paintings in various museums. I only came to really appreciate Titian and Veronese later... quite likely through Rubens. I'm probably not quick to place any of the late Renaissance Venetians within the grouping of Mannerists in part for the simple reason that I am not all that fond of Mannerism... a movement I find was often overly "mannered"... overwrought... and often simply ridiculous...


Yeah well I had a look at some books I got on art, and Mannerism was included in a chapter on the High Renaissance in one of them. That writer at least put it under late Renaissance, so its either an extension of that or a stepping stone to Baroque. But whatever it is, Tintoretto and Veronese are often mentioned in the same breath as Mannerism. But in my mind its that link between them and other things coming after (eg. Caravaggio as I talked about before) thats more important than what I label them as, what box I put them in.


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## deggial

why choose? all of them.

how about some Post-Impressionism avant la lettre?


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## StlukesguildOhio

I don't really see a lot of connections with Post-Impressionism outside of the stark planes of Cezanne. Its almost more Post-Cubist. The style of this Coptic-Period Egyptian portrait (large eyes and simplified form) was quite common in the art of the late Roman Empire/early Middle Ages. I immediately think of the Colossal Sculpture of Constantine:










I think that what will remain as the most lasting contribution of Modernism in the area of the visual arts will not be the work of the Modernist artists... fine as much of this is, but rather the manner in which Modernism opened up an endless array of possibilities beyond the Post-Renaissance idea that the primary goal of painting was to present a "mirror of nature"... an illusion of visual reality. Modernism led to the appreciation of pre-Renaissance art, the art of Japan, China, India, Persia, the Middle-East, Africa, the Americas, etc..., the art of children, the art of outsiders (the mentally ill, the self-taught visionary, etc...), folk art, and so much more.

When you speak of the Egyptian portrait as Post-Impressionist _avant la lettre,_ you have certainly hit on the fact that a lot of art such as this would not and could not have been appreciated until the developments of Modernism.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I'm sort of surprised at the popularity of "Expressionism"... although I will note that the term is rather vague. Like a number of other terms ("Realism" "Neo-Classicism") it can refer to a specific artistic movement... or a broader artistic inclination. Grunewald...










and El Greco...










and Goya...










and Van Gogh...










... are all often spoken of as "Expressionistic" painters in that they freely employ powerful distortions of form and color to convey emotional content. Yet none were truly members of any of the true Expressionist movements... which would include French Expressionism:









-Kees van Dongen









-Georges Rouault

.....


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## StlukesguildOhio

_Andre Derain









-Henri Matisse

Russian Expressionism:









-Alexi Jawlensky

and German Expressionism... which included 3 major schools: Die Brucke:









-E.L. Kirchner









-Erich Heckel









-Karl Schmidt-Rottluff


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## StlukesguildOhio

Der Blaue Reiter:









-Wassily Kandinsky









-Franz Marc

and Der Neue Sachlichkeit:









-George Grosz









-Christian Schad









-Max Beckmann

Then we have Abstract Expressionism:









-Jackson Pollock

...


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## StlukesguildOhio

-Willem DeKooning









-Mark Rothko

Then starting in the mid-1980s we had Neo-Expressionism:









-Anselm Kiefer









-Georg baselitz









-Jorge Immendorf









-Eric Fischl

I say I'm somewhat surprised, because the favorite art period, bar none, has long been Impressionism. This is owed to the fact that Impressionism is the last major period focused upon visual reality and traditional concepts of beauty. Unlike older movements (the Baroque or Renaissance) it also focuses upon the everyday world as opposed to religious or mythological or historical subjects that demand a degree of prior knowledge. Attendance at exhibitions of Impressionist exhibitions... along with a few other individuals such as Matisse and Van Gogh have set records far beyond any Expressionist show. Indeed... outside of exhibitions of the work of E.L. Kirchner, Max Beckmann and DeKoonig, I can't even recall a major Expressionist exhibition. I was lucky enough to attend 3 major Beckmann exhibitions... including the most recent at MoMA... but there have been literally dozens of major Impressionist exhibitions in the US alone.


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## Guest

I think StLukes must quite like art or something!

Me, I'm for Dada and the Surrealists.


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## norman bates

Weston said:


> In the 1950s, 60s and 70s, I believe Matta and Tanguy both inspired surrealist and science fiction illustrator (that word again) Richard Powers, whom I got to meet a couple of times.
> 
> View attachment 16787
> 
> 
> And also the great and all too humble Paul Lehr, another surrealist (and science fiction illustrator  ) who was a childhood hero of mine, but who I'm deeply saddened to say befriended me just a couple of years before he passed away. He was a wonderful human being.
> 
> View attachment 16788


another great fan of Lehr and especially Richard Powers here. Powers is one of my very favorite artists, the only other one in the field that I would put on the same level is another surrealist sci-fi illustrator: Karel Thole, if you don't know him, check him out). How was he in person?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Impressionism, but also fauvism.


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## norman bates

I think I like things in every movement, anyway at least two of my favorite movements are not in the list, metaphysical art and symbolism. 
Some of my favorites:

goya 
van gogh 
el greco
picasso 
chaim soutine
alberto breccia
ian fairweather
velazquez
matisse
max ernst
richard m. powers
karel thole
maxfield parrish
edward hopper
francois emile barraud
zinaida serebriakova
felix valloton
spilliaert
emily carr
charles burchfield
william blake
henri rousseau
paul delvaux
klimt
de chirico
george inness
joseph cornell (not exactly a painter, but what he was?)
bonnard
braque


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## norman bates

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I suppose my favorite "-ism" is surrealism, but probably not in the way intended by its practitioners. For me it is a kind of escapist illustration -- and I know "illustration" has been a vulgarity in the minds of fine artists, at least when I was in school. But then I am an illustrator so.
> 
> Yes... when I attended art school the terms "illustrational" or "Illustrative" as well as "narrative" were deemed the height of insults. All that Greenbergian Formalism...


this reminds me of the attitude a lot of classical composers have toward jazz and popular music.
Actually there are illustrators that are worth of the best painters. And there were painters that were also illustrators. 
Some of my favorite "illustrators":
alberto breccia
maxfield parrish
richard m. powers
Karel Thole
dino battaglia 
William kurelek
albin brunovsky
lorenzo mattotti
paul lehr
leo & diane dillon 
ronald searle
honorè daumier
sergio toppi 
palle nielsen
escher
mirko hanak
bernie fuchs
james hill
gustave dorè
quentin blake
rene gruau
charley harper
leonardo cremonini
ferenc pinter
winsor mccay
cliff sterrett
frank king
george herriman
brian wildsmith
jack gaughan
rea irvin
martin lewis
andré franquin
john burningham
andrè francois
edmond baudoin
chesley bonestell
paul julian
robert crumb
Kerr Eby
lionel feininger
enric siò
federico castellon
jacques tardi
guy peellaert
eyvind earle
saul steinberg
john bauer
William Heath Robinson
moebius
sebastian krueger
attilio micheluzzi
milton caniff
a.m cassandre
leonetto cappiello
charles keeping
sterling hundley
francois-louis schmied
aristide sartorio
duilio cambellotti


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## Weston

Wow! I've scarcely heard of a third of these. ^


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## TxllxT

StlukesguildOhio said:


> and the Gothic:
> 
> 
> -Figures from Chartres Cathedral


Most outdoor figures from French Cathedrals happen to be 19th century (or 20th century) copies. I'm quite sure that the statues on the picture are not original. The only cathedral that has an astounding collection of original outdoor statues is Strassbourg cathedral. The French Neogothic architect Eugène Viollet-le-Duc has left a legacy of 'bettering' the originals: brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## TxllxT

By the way, when it comes down to painters & paintings I happen to feel quite at home in the Low Countries.


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## WavesOfParadox

I love Kandinsky.

Behold, this is what a fugue looks like.








It's no coincidence I love both Kandinsky and Schoenberg. Schoenberg was also pretty talented in painting (see profile picture).


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## ArtMusic

I quite like all movements, it really depends on the paintings themselves.


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## brianvds

deggial said:


> why choose? all of them.
> 
> how about some Post-Impressionism avant la lettre?
> 
> View attachment 16850


No idea what the French means, but I am very fond of those Fayum paintings, and they have indeed struck me as very post-impressionist, even though they are very much pre-impressionist.


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## brianvds

MacLeod said:


> I think StLukes must quite like art or something!


StLukes is a noted member on WetCanvas, the message board for visual artists. He is an artist himself (I am something of a fan of his work). And he has a vast knowledge of matters artistic.

As for me, I am a mere dabbler in the visual arts, at the moment quite literally a Sunday painter, seeing as it is the only day of the week I have enough time. My own tastes tend toward the post-impressionist and early expressionist, although I find that rather curiously, I do not like painting in that manner myself.

I like Gauguin's idea of synthetism, i.e. an art in which the artist tries to achieve a synthesis of three elements: the outward appearance of the subject, the artist's own subjective expression of his feelings or view with regard to the subject, and a consideration of the purely decorative elements.

Gauguin himself was a master at this, but it is something one sees in a lot of post-impressionist and some expressionist work. It is not unique to that time; I seem to perceive something similar in, for example, some medieval and early renaissance art, even though that was probably not the conscious intention of the artists.

Having no hint of talent for art, I am utterly in awe of the work of artists who can achieve a high level of realism - it seems almost literally like magic to me - without necessarily actually liking the art all that much. It depends on the specific work though.


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## Turangalîla

Pretty sure most of you've seen this, but it's one of my favourite pictures, like, ever...


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## Kleinzeit

R.B. KITAJ
50s Grand Swank (Morton Feldman)


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## Kleinzeit

R.B. Kitaj crystallized my need to paint. I don't paint like him anymore; that booster rocket fell away fifteen years ago. There are painters --artists of all kinds-- you experience their work and think: 'Virtuoso. Titan. .....I could never do that." A closed book. And there are others, you go "Wow! Lol! Aha! I can do that!" And you run home and paint, or write, or oboe. Those artists open the book. They could be 'phase' artists, you may find them lacking or laughable later. Or you may retain the utmost respect, like me & uncle Kitaj. Philip Guston's another book opener. These days I guess the kids in art school look to Peter Doig for one, Marcel Dzama. Hmm.

R.B. KITAJ
Where the Railroad Leaves the Sea


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## Vaneyes

Any painting that isn't political and/or religious. 

Subject matter may be interesting or not. Composition, lighting are important factors. Color less so. 

I do not like tightly-rendered works, preferring large bold brushstrokes.

Some favorite artists - Miro, Modigliani, Picasso, Turner.


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## Skilmarilion

I have always loved the paintings of the renaissance and baroque movements; in particular the masterworks of the Italian geniuses, namely Caravaggio, Raffaello and Michelangelo. Rembrandt's works, though not strictly baroque in style, are wonderful too.


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## Ingélou

I love the 'classical' paintings of Alma-Tadema & I love the pre-raphaelites, especially John William Waterhouse. I just love anything to do with history - historical novels, time travel fiction etc. It goes back to my childhood when my mother dragged us all round museums, art galleries and churches everywhere we went. And of course, my home town is York, with one of the finest museums in the world, the Castle Museum with its reconstructed Victorian & Edwardian streets.









Alma-Tadema's 'Coign of Vantage': a natural for a gal brought up in Eboracum!


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## Kleinzeit

Ingenue said:


> I love the 'classical' paintings of Alma-Tadema & I love the pre-raphaelites, especially John William Waterhouse. I just love anything to do with history - historical novels, time travel fiction etc. It goes back to my childhood when my mother dragged us all round museums, art galleries and churches everywhere we went. And of course, my home town is York, with one of the finest museums in the world, the Castle Museum with its reconstructed Victorian & Edwardian streets.


Fun fact: Allan Funt, of the old old tv gag show Candid Camera, who an Alma-Tadema collector.

from Wiki: "He amassed a collection of works by the Victorian painter Lawrence Alma-Tadema , but was forced to sell them just before the painter's reputation revived and the prices of the paintings shot up.
Alma-Tadema (Catalogue of the Funt Collection) compiled by Russell Ashe, Sotheby's Belgravia, 1973"


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## Ingélou

Both Alma-Tadema & J. W. Waterhouse were so prolific. Some of their paintings are disturbing, but I've never seen one yet that I didn't like. Here is an example of Waterhouse to seduce your eye. Have a great week, everyone! 









John William Waterhouse, 1902: The Crystal Ball


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## StlukesguildOhio

I came to love Kitaj after having been exposed to him in art school. He had the added advantage of being Cleveland-born...










R.B. Kitaj- The Cleveland Indian

Kitaj brought an interesting mix of the old masters, modernists (Cezanne, Picasso, Matisse, Degas) and Pop Art. While Warhol was painting soup cans, Kitaj was painting Beethoven as Batman, allusions to James Joyce, the Holocaust, and sex. A truly heady mix. In many ways it was Kitaj who dragged me kicking and screaming into a further exploration and appreciation of contemporary art.


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## Guest

Listen Guys 'n Girls, I only voted "Renaissance" because of this article (The Guardian newspaper):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes.../27/sex-lives-renaissance-artists-interactive


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## Ingélou

Yeah, but TH, you could probably find the same type of interest in the lives of painters of any era. What about Augustus John, for instance?


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## Guest

But I'm not allowed to vote twice, so I just wanted to say that *my real vote* would have been something *not* in the categories given, ergo "Other". My real vote goes to the so-called YBA 'school'.


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## Guest

Ingenue said:


> Yeah, but TH, you could probably find the same type of interest in the lives of painters of any era. What about Augustus John, for instance?


Yeah, I'm sure you're right! Still, pretty powerful stuff, hey?


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## Ingélou

Sorry, the penny takes a long time to drop with me...
But anyway, it has given me a chance to say that, private life notwithstanding, I like Augustus John's work, also his sister's.









Augustus John: The Smiling Woman (Dorelia McNeill)

(Cross posting - ah well!)


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## Guest

Tell you what, Ingénue, how about we start a new thread - *a new Poll* !!! - about all these 'eras' musical, literary and visual (plastic arts)? A poll along the lines : 'What historical moment /artistic era (all arts combined) would you have liked to have lived in and why?'
I promise I'll play if you start it, OK?


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## Ingélou

Sounds a great idea, TH. We're off to watch some Star Trek just now, but if next time I come on, *you* have started it, then I will play!

Otherwise, I'll get Taggart on to it. He's waiting expectantly in the lounge at present, so toodle pip!


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## Guest

Ingenue said:


> Sounds a great idea, TH. We're off to watch some Star Trek just now, but if next time I come on, *you* have started it, then I will play!
> Otherwise, I'll get Taggart on to it. He's waiting expectantly in the lounge at present, so toodle pip!


Go on, get Taggart on to it. I promise I'll play !


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## Ingélou

TalkingHead said:


> Go on, get Taggart on to it. I promise I'll play !


Taggart has acted. I couldn't do it myself, you see, because I'm useless at IT.


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## Guest

No really, I _*am*_ rather keen on the YBA stuff. OK, perhaps not so much Tracy Emin, but certainly Damien Hirst _et al_ ...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I voted for other, as in Dada (eg Marcel Duchamp& Hugo Ball), the starting point for the Surrealist's and postmodernism etc 

Down with the bourgeois capitalist society I say, how about that for a fun game


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## Ingélou

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I voted for other, as in Dada (eg Marcel Duchamp& Hugo Ball), the starting point for the Surrealist's and postmodernism etc
> 
> Down with the bourgeois capitalist society I say, how about that for a fun game


It doesn't sound as much fun as Monopoly, or even cribbage.


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## Couchie

Whichever this one is.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Other: the Stone Age
















:tiphat:

I actually voted the 19th century styles.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Ingenue said:


> It doesn't sound as much fun as Monopoly, or even cribbage.


Well it was an ideology based on artistic expression to reject logic and embrace chaos and irrationality- so that fits and how could that not be fun.......


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