# Jay Greenberg?



## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

[video]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jay+Greenberg[/video]

A super genius, the new Mozart, the greatest talent of the last 200 years (wat) and bla bla bla, but I can't really read serious discussions or articles about him and his music.

What do you think about this composer?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Meh, it's pretty good music. I mean, pretty well written and all that. If he doesn't change his style though or try something new he won't be remembered, I can almost guarantee that.

Here's his 5th symphony if anyone doesn't feel like doing a youtube search.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

The 5th symphony you linked is pretty darn good for being composed by a 14 year old. He clearly has tons of potential, seeing how he's still in his early twenties.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DiesIraeVIX said:


> The 5th symphony you linked is pretty darn good for being composed by a 14 year old. He clearly has tons of potential, seeing how he's still in his early twenties.


Amazing gift of a 'processor chip,' but non-amazing music... so far it all sounds strongly and generically 'filmic,' (this earlier work less so...) and that is not the most promising as to a future career as a straight-ahead contemporary classical composer.

I predict he might become (is at the moment at least seeming most likely to become) the fastest film composer of all time. But, he's now 22, at the front end of that decade when careers are established... but to date, what I've heard promises nothing but a highly imaginative near pastiche artist who can generate music with incredible speed.

The general musical ability, combined with that speed in someone so young (also known of Mozart, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Saint-Saens and Korngold) is on its own is a kind of rare phenomenon, but it is a freak ability, not necessarily an indicator of musical genius. I.M.O. the media would have served Mr. Greenberg far far better if they had left him alone completely re: the prodigy newsfeed fronts.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*No Sir, I don't like it.*


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I watched an interview on him from a few years back. I believe he was 14 at the time. To paraphrase his quote he said, "When people tell me my music is very good for a 14 year old, that's like saying it's ok for a 19 year old, and not very good for a 30 year old." More or less, I completely understand this sentiment and why he feels that way. Part of me feels for him because he's composing in a fish bowl. Another part of me feels he's been extremely blessed to be so high profile and in the public spotlight. Certainly an opportunity that many will never get, whether deserving or not. Mozart, Mendelssohn, and other prodigies didn't have to deal with being ripped apart on social media, youtube, and in an overbearing press. He may never be considered more than a novelty and unfortunately, he's in a business where true appreciation for your body of work often comes long after you no longer have a heartbeat.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

scratchgolf said:


> I watched an interview on him from a few years back. I believe he was 14 at the time. To paraphrase his quote he said, "When people tell me my music is very good for a 14 year old, that's like saying it's ok for a 19 year old, and not very good for a 30 year old." More or less, I completely understand this sentiment and why he feels that way. Part of me feels for him because he's composing in a fish bowl. Another part of me feels he's been extremely blessed to be so high profile and in the public spotlight. Certainly an opportunity that many will never get, whether deserving or not. Mozart, Mendelssohn, and other prodigies didn't have to deal with being ripped apart on social media, youtube, and in an overbearing press. He may never be considered more than a novelty and unfortunately, he's in a business where true appreciation for your body of work often comes *long after you no longer have a heartbeat.*


Lucky for him, there's an app for that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...keep-your-heart-beating-for-ever-9166004.html

But I guess that's an aside :lol:


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2014)

He would be more comparable to Mozart had Mozart only written music that sounded like Schütz. But he didn't. He wrote music that sounded like Mozart.

Greenberg's musical world is from well over a hundred years ago. In its technical facility, his fifth reminds me a little of Ives' first, which looks back to about the same era as Greenberg, except of course that Ives' first dates from the turn of the century, the other century, so is itself over a hundred years old. And it was preceded by the Variations on 'America'. And followed by the _Unanswered Question._

Greenberg's unanswered question is where will he go from here? Ives left the musically conservative world of his first symphony almost immediately. No surprise. It was only a short visit for the purpose of getting a music degree from the arch-conservative Horatio Parker. Greenberg seems quite unaware that anything much has happened in music since 1880 or so. Oh, OK, 1910, maybe. But he's young. Maybe....

Anyway, as it is, he is nothing like any of the child prodigies mentioned in that awful youtube interview (who _is_ that guy who's so sure that he is like those prodigies?*), simply because none of them, not even the very conservative Mendelssohn, wrote in idioms from over a hundred years before.

But then, most classical music listeners are equally unaware of much of what has gone on since the end of the 19th century--unaware or uninterested--so a composer in the 21st century who is replicating the sounds of the late 19th/early 20th centuries is gonna sound perfectly normal to them.

It's pretty gagsome, though. I'll speculate that Mozart would not be well-known today had he spent his childhood channeling Bononcini. Or if Mendelssohn had spent his childhood channeling Bach. He admired Bach, of course, but he didn't write Baroque music. Even those forgettable string symphonies sound more like Mendelssohn than they do Bach.

*Yes, I know. He's Jay's theory teacher. You know what I mean, though.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I like his music. We should support him more. His music is very accessible and IT IS NEW MUSIC WRITTEN TODAY.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> I like his music. We should support him more. His music is very accessible and IT IS NEW MUSIC WRITTEN TODAY.


You can support him all you want!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ArtMusic said:


> I like his music. We should support him more. His music is very accessible and IT IS NEW MUSIC WRITTEN TODAY.


The point raised by a phenomenon the likes of a Jake Greenberg is: 
_Precocious ability ≠ Genius_ (or even 'important talent.')

The young man has _more than a remarkable facility_ to compose, while interchangeable with that equation already given, _Facility ≠ Genius_, and in the truer meaning of the word 'talent,' _Precocious ability + facility ≠ talent._

As to 'very accessible and IT IS NEW MUSIC WRITTEN TODAY,' well, _Every thing written currently is contemporary_, including Justin Bieber songs. That does not qualify all contemporary music as being considered truly contemporary in terms of classical contemporary, for goodness' sake. Composing music more in the vein of a contemporary film score is writing more in the vein of a generic film score, for example, "Nothing more nor Less."

I recall your post stating that contemporary classical music missed its chance _to be popular_ because it did not go in the direction of great film scores from the middle of the 20th century! Well, that Germanic Triumvirate of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven weren't always as 'accessible' or popular in their own times as some would have it, or love to believe. Beethoven's Violin Concerto and his Piano Concerto No. 4 had their premieres, and vanisihed from sight in the general rep for approximately forty years until the public caught up, as it were. :lol: Ergo, my or your liking it right off the moment we hear it when it is new _is not the measure to use for that bigger set of judgements if it is 'great' music or not._

The ongoing campaign that the only good contemporary music is that which you find accessible is a wholly egocentric one based solely on your personal taste, that taste already near infamously well-known as pretty retro-conservative; the frequency and intensity of so many repeated statements about making an evaluation of music as good or great based on your taste is rather phenomenal, as it is rather like continuously asking the tide to comply with your desires when all the world recognizes that the tides do not behave at the beck and call of anyone's wishes or desires.

So yeah, if you like Greenberg's music, support him all you want... purchase the recordings of his works (are there any? -- oooh, why not?), attend concerts where his music is being performed, save up and commission a work from him. Methinks the industry of film, video game and incidental music is going to be knocking on Mr. Greenberg's door soon enough, or time will find him knocking on the door of that industry soon enough.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

PetrB said:


> The point raised by a phenomenon the likes of a Jake Greenberg is:
> _Precocious ability ≠ Genius_ (or even 'important talent.')
> 
> The young man has _more than a remarkable facility_ to compose, while interchangeable with that equation already given, _Facility ≠ Genius_, and in the truer meaning of the word 'talent,' _Precocious ability + facility ≠ talent._
> ...


Greenberg will likely be successful and popular with the notes he composes. That's all that matters for any composer today. Pure and simple.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Jay Greenberg, _Symphony no.5_

I love it! We shouyld definitely have more composers today like this.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> Jay Greenberg, _Symphony no.5_
> 
> I love it! We shouyld definitely have more composers today like this.


Ouch - it's pretty dull. There's a heap of music like this in the mid C20 if you want to go digging for it, and I wouldn't have thought we needed any more. Kinda put me in mind of late Vaughan Williams or Roy Harris or Howard Hanson and noone is putting them on a pedestal much at the moment - would anyone give a toss if it wasn't a youngish kid? Wake me up if Mr Greenberg starts doing something interesting

Although, Art, if you like this there's a rich vein of mid-century symphonists for you to explore that do this sort of thing better and on a bigger scale


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

dgee said:


> Ouch - it's pretty dull. There's a heap of music like this in the mid C20 if you want to go digging for it, and I wouldn't have thought we needed any more. Kinda put me in mind of late Vaughan Williams or Roy Harris or Howard Hanson and noone is putting them on a pedestal much at the moment - would anyone give a toss if it wasn't a youngish kid? Wake me up if Mr Greenberg starts doing something interesting
> 
> Although, Art, if you like this there's a rich vein of mid-century symphonists for you to explore that do this sort of thing better and on a bigger scale


I know and I am aware of say British 20th century music that were deep in sentimentality. But as this thread is about J Greenberg, we should be supporting his music.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> I know and I am aware of say British 20th century music that were deep in sentimentality. But as this thread is about J Greenberg, we should be supporting his music.


Or you could try the two Americans I listed or Hartmann etc. But I hope you can see as others have pointed out that we are all welcome to support Mr Greenberg or not based on whether we like his music. You like it, so go ahead and support!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I listened briefly to Mr. Greenberg's music and didn't really hear much there. I have gotten quite fond of some other contemporary young American tonal composers who may lack Greenberg's native talent but who have interesting things to say.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

For relatively young composers making big splashes in the music world and writing fairly accessible works, I prefer Nico Muhly.





















His music doesn't sound like it was literally composed 150 years ago. Nothing personal against Mr. Greenberg. I do hope he is given the opportunity to grow and realize his full potential at some point in his life.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I remember this guy, I think I first encountered him in 2009. Mostly I just remember being pissed off that someone *younger than me!!!* had been recorded by orchestras and string quartets, until I heard the music at least, and then I thought "oh fine". Best of luck to him, but I doubt I'll be supporting him financially any time soon.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

I realized a while ago that his last name has the same meaning as Monteverdi.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Roger Sessions once counseled Leonard Bernstein that he needed to go off and live all alone in the wilderness "until the only music you hear is your own. Then write it down." Reasonable advice here?


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

dgee said:


> Kinda put me in mind of late Vaughan Williams or Roy Harris or Howard Hanson and noone is putting them on a pedestal much at the moment


Very much disagree with this statement. Those are three of our most brilliant composers that are highly respected.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MarkW said:


> Roger Sessions once counseled Leonard Bernstein that he needed to go off and live all alone in the wilderness "until the only music you hear is your own. Then write it down." Reasonable advice here?


Yes it is, Bravo I say.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

MarkW said:


> Roger Sessions once counseled Leonard Bernstein that he needed to go off and live all alone in the wilderness "until the only music you hear is your own. Then write it down." Reasonable advice here?


Something bothers me here. I think it is the word "own". Is there music that is _your own_? Wilderness is ok


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Not every prodigy will produce original statements. It still remains, that to compose a full blown neo-romantic sounding symphony in our own age takes some knowledge, skills, and ideas. And it remains a remarkable thing that a young person is capable of gaining such knowledge, skills, and ideas, which often takes many years of study and practice. What I hear as I listen to J Greenberg's Fifth is a piece of well-crafted music that speaks on its own regardless of what age the composer happened to be. Can many a fifty, sixty, or seventy year old write such a symphony? I think not. And were one, of retirement age, who had no musical background to begin a study of music in order to learn to compose, he may well be able to write a competent neo-romantic symphony within fourteen years of beginning study. Is this so remarkable?

I remember hearing a youthful Oliver Knussen conduct his own First Symphony written at around age 14. Knussen was 15 at the time. Here's how Wiki tells the story: "Aged 15, Knussen stepped in to conduct his symphony's première at the Royal Festival Hall, London, on 7 April 1968, after István Kertész fell ill. After his debut, Daniel Barenboim asked him to conduct the work's first two movements in New York a week later.[6] In this work and his Concerto for Orchestra (1968-1970), he had quickly and fluently absorbed the influences of modernist composers Britten and Berg as well as many mid-century (largely American) symphonists, while displaying an unusual flair for pacing and orchestration.[2] It was as early as the Second Symphony (1970-1971), in the words of Julian Anderson, that "Knussen's compositional personality abruptly appeared, fully formed".[7]

I still have a cassette tape recording from a radio broadcast of that Knussen performance (I don't believe the First Symphony was ever recorded commercially on LP or CD) and it never fails to amaze me. I've heard plenty of Knussen music since, and the man has certainly developed as a composer since the mid 1960s, but I probably still like his First Symphony better than I do any of the other works of his I've heard. It's not just that it was written by a young person; the music is wildly dramatic, and I appreciate that.

Artists may certainly peak at early ages. We think of Mendelssohn. And they may fall off in terms of creativity or product in later age. I think of the poet William Wordsworth. Genius doesn't guarantee a steady stream of great product or constant development. It may spark for a brief time and exist in an aura surrounded by something of lesser talents. In rare cases it does move forward. Beethoven seems the major argument for this. But even Beethoven began heavily influenced by Haydn and Mozart. Can one blame a youthful Greenberg for finding influences in music readily accessible, such as Romantic symphonies? A young person is certainly more likely to hear classical and romantic composers' music than to hear the most contemporary soundings, since that latter stuff is relatively rare to be heard. So cut the kid a break. He did well by age 14.

Will he continue doing well? Perhaps he'll make tons of money writing for films. John Williams certainly has. Will John Williams's music be remembered 200 years from now? Will Williams be considered one of the greatest 20th-21st century composers? No composer is so financially successful. There are many different measures of success. Is John Williams successful?

We know that many a composer has dispensed with his/her early works, often destroying the lot of it, in favor of keeping only what the composer considers worthy. How much competent, good sounding stuff has been destroyed because some composer judged it to be derivative? Maybe someday Greenberg will destroy his early work. Who can say? Meanwhile, let's be happy we have another composer in the world. There are many less noble professions young people turn to nowadays.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Art Music introduced me to this composer and I am listening to his brass quintet, written in the last few years. It sounds like a unique voice to me.

I also note that he currently lives in New Zealand, far from the pressures of NYC.

An intriguing young composer!


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