# Scotland's soul in music



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

For me the composer who has fathomed the deepest into the Scottish soul is Felix Mendelsohn-Bartholdy.

My all time favourite happens to be his 3rd symphony with Claudio Abbado





I welcome your opinion on the Scottish soul in music....


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Max Bruch, Scottish Fantasy for Violin and Orchestra.

All the Scottish soul in music you will ever need.

Recommended performer-Jascha Heifetz.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Ian Anderson................


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

*In response to TxllxT #1 above*

Really? Aye, Felix did his _wee_ bit for Scotland, no doubt. However, my opinion differs to yours. I propose rather these two 'Hibernian friends':
a) Joe "McTaggart" *Haydn* : 



b) Lou "Who are ye lookin' at?" *Beethoven* : 




_Do ye ken me_?


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

"Waiter! _'Hebrides a la Karajan' _for me."


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Scotland's soul is Presbyterian.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Scotland's 'soul in music' is to be found in her fine eighteenth century fiddlers, Niel Gow and 'Fiddler Tam', the Earl of Kellie. 
Also in another eighteenth century Scot, the classical composer, James Oswald, who (ironically enough) composed for the instrument known as the English Guitar:


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Probably in Aly Bain (the traditional Shetland fiddler) and Phil Cunningham (accordionist and Scottish folk composer).

But there's always Iain Hamilton, Thea Musgrave and James MacMillan.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

And let's not forget one of Scotland's finest composers alive today : *James Dillon*. 
Please Google.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Itullian said:


> Ian Anderson................


Yup, one of Blackpool's finest sons.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Julie Fowlissssssssssss


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

How about a real Scot- Hamish MacCunn or John Blackwood McEwen. 
I heard McEwen's Scottish Rhapsody ("Prince Charlie") a few weeks ago. Will order the recording soon.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

If you're looking for pure Scottish music, why not go directly into Scottish folk music? Any composition by Mendelssohn or whoever will be tainted with cosmopolitan influence (not that it's bad music, but not the best choice if you are looking for the purest examples).

Besides, if it doesn't have bagpipes, how Scottish can it really be?


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

"Pure", "Scottish" and "Folk" : they are all "constructs" that make me shudder.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

TalkingHead said:


> "Pure", "Scottish" and "Folk" : they are all "constructs" that make me shudder.


Why is that?

.....................................


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

What, no Robert Burns? Okay, maybe technically not a musician, but of such impact on music he may as well have been. 

If we're looking for a western art music composer using folk influence, there's Granville Bantock's Hebridean Symphony. If I recall, it uses a lot of orchestral drones or pedal point in imitation of bagpipes. I always thought this was a bit of a cliche though. 

If we can include modern folk, The Tannahill Weavers and Dougie McLean do it for me - and of course the aforementioned Ian Anderson goes without saying. 

But in spite of being of Scots descent (with a little Cherokee and lot this and that mixed in), as an American I'm likely ignorant of how the music of Scotland should really sound.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Scotland has its own unique instruments






Styles of singing






But one man epitomises it all


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Scottish born and breed here, but sorry...when I think of Scotland and music I think of this wee chappie...Hogmanay isnae the same noo.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Even better when he was on with Mr Shand on the White Heather Club. Hogmanay has always been going downhill. My relations always said it wasn't the same and we can always remember the time Duncan McCrae did Wee Cock Sparra with his wife saying "Sit down Duncan, ye're fu!"


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2014)

One of my favorite composers was born in Glasgow.

Diana Simpson Salazar.


__
https://soundcloud.com/diana_salazar%2Fpapyrus

She's now married to some Latin guy and lives in London. But she is Scottish. Not sure about that whole "soul" thing. People have souls, may be. Countries? I think rather not. Countries are made up, among other things, of all sorts of different people, each of them with their own unique, particular "soul." And any attempt to encapsulate a whole country with a particular idea is inevitably going to disenfranchise a whole bunch of natives of that country.

Be fair, look at all those threads about "American" music. It's all about a fairly narrow range of cliches, which leave out Cage and Partch and Mumma and Johnston and Oliveros and Smiley and Shields and Wolff and Tudor and even Sessions who aren't writing Coplandesque Americana.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

some guy said:


> Be fair, look at all those threads about "American" music. It's all about a fairly narrow range of cliches, which leave out Cage and Partch and Mumma and Johnston and Oliveros and Smiley and Shields and Wolff and Tudor and even Sessions who aren't writing Coplandesque Americana.


The best do both - look at Ruth Crawford Seeger or Elliott Carter - working in different modern styles for their instrumental work but linked to the folk tradition in their vocal work.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2014)

Well, I suppose it's because I'm an urban effete and tend to equate "folk" with negative connotations. Actually, I don't know why I wrote "Scottish" in my post above, please discount it.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I'm going to wait until the recent vote in Scotland (YES or NO to the United Kingdom ) is finalized before making any comment on this thread.

But I _have_ heard that most of Scotland's bagpipes are made in Pakistan!

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/26/157356034/in-pakistan-sounds-of-a-different-kind-of-drone


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Well, I suppose it's because I'm an urban effete and tend to equate "folk" with negative connotations. Actually, I don't know why I wrote "Scottish" in my post above, please discount it.


Not at all. Just as Gaul is divided into three parts, one may distinguish several distinct "Scotlands" - the Highlands - clans, Gaelic and Catholicism; the central lowlands with the industrial heart of Glasgow at one end, the prison at Shotts in the middle and a financial hub with pretensions to culture at the other; the borders - rural farming communities; the Western Isles; the Northern Isles with links to Norway; the East Coast with links to fishing and oil. Each has its own folk culture - often evidenced in a fiddle style - Perthshire, Speyside, Orkney and so forth. The idea of Caledonia is fairly definitely a "construct".

As to folk having negative connotations that is perhaps that is because of the affectations of such as Jimmy Miller (aka Ewan McColl) or Dick Gaughan (Scots Irish - Gaelic speakers on both sides) or Dougie Maclean, Equally pretentious are such as Hamish Henderson who helped collect many fine songs and introduce many singers to the general public as as reflection of his politics. There is doubtless a case for a thread like The Rules about the folk revival.

PS Separate Issue entirely. This is the second time in a couple of days that I've really bumped against the ToS. We have a forum for Religion and Politics in relation to *Classical* Music but not in relation to *non*-Classical music. This means I have to be careful about the political content of folk songs and the religious element in their music.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2014)

Well Taggart, you have firmly put me in my place, but gracefully, for which I thank you. If I had any Scotch in the house (I don't drink the hard stuff) I'd raise a glass to 'ye!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

TalkingHead said:


> Well, I suppose it's because I'm an urban effete and tend to equate "folk" with negative connotations. Actually, I don't know why I wrote "Scottish" in my post above, please discount it.


Aaahh I gotcha.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2014)

TalkingHead said:


> I don't drink the hard stuff


I'll take care of your glass for you then. (Sweet! Two glasses of Scotch for the price of one.)


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I am surprised no one has mentioned James MacMillan.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes! Yes! Who????


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> I am surprised no one has mentioned James MacMillan.


Er, please sir, I did...


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Taggart said:


> But one man epitomises it all


y' bit m'tae it ! :tiphat:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Badinerie said:


> Scottish born and breed here, but sorry...when I think of Scotland and music I think of this wee chappie...Hogmanay isnae the same noo.
> 
> View attachment 51491


thank heavens for satellite TV and the internet - we don't *have* to suffer this type of stuff of an evening


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Headphone Hermit said:


> thank heavens for satellite TV and the internet - we don't *have* to suffer this type of stuff of an evening


These days I prefer Jules Holland's Hootananny to be sure, but Stewart, the Alexander Brothers et all served their purpose in their own time. Simpler times.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Er, please sir, I did...


Sorry, I missed it.


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## revdrdave (Jan 8, 2014)

And then there's my favorite Scottish composer, Thomas Wilson.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Well Taggart, you have firmly put me in my place, but gracefully, for which I thank you. If I had any Scotch in the house (I don't drink the hard stuff) I'd raise a glass to 'ye!


And a graceful apology, for which we raise a glass of grape juice to you. We do have Scotch in the house, but he's not allowed to drink it...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ingélou said:


> And a graceful apology, for which we raise a glass of grape juice to you. We do have Scotch in the house, but he's not allowed to drink it...


Re Taggart: Did everything come out alright? So to speak?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

:tiphat: Thanks for asking, KenOC - his pancreatitis is sorted but the hospital will recall him to have his gall bladder removed within six weeks so he's on a low fat diet and no alcohol, but getting stronger from day to day. 'We got by with a little help from our friends...' 

Back on topic - another fine eighteenth century fiddler was Robert Mackintosh of Tulliemet, who has left behind 'The Mackintosh Collection' of folk and art tunes & we have a modern edition. Lovely!


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> thank heavens for satellite TV and the internet - we don't *have* to suffer this type of stuff of an evening


Where's the suffering in a good dose of White Heather club? Or do you mean that because of satellite TV and the internet you can *enjoy *it at any hour of the day or night?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

And let's not forget Nathaniel Gow, the gifted son of Niel Gow, who wrote many fine tunes, here played beautifully by Jordi Savall. :tiphat: This truly is the soul of Scottish music.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Camera Obscura - 



Arab Strap - 



Belle & Sebastian - 



The Twilight Sad - 



Life Without Buildings - 



Prolapse - 



Delgados - 



Idlewild - 



Sons & Daughters - 




Just saving the world from Andy **** Stewart


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Good to see you back and posting @quack. I am not _au fait_ with modern music but fail to see how your examples a) represent the "Soul of Scotland" b) save the world from Mr Stewart or c) why the world needs saving from Mr Stewart. I wonder if, given the ****, you are not confusing Andy Stewart and Andy M. Stewart?

Be careful about disparaging Andy Stewart or we'll bring on Kenneth McKellar, Moira Anderson, Jimmy Logan, Harry Lauder, the Alexander Brothers,Calum Kennedy and Will Fyffe. (The latter is guaranteed to drive you bananas!)


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

This does it for me. First heard this piece in the film of the same title by Powell and Pressburger.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If there's one act who I will forever identify with Scotland (or Glasgow at least) it has to be The Sensational Alex Harvey Band. Alex, the Glory of the Gorbals, was both charismatic and a gifted storyteller - he knew his history and folklore (he even made a talking album about the Loch Ness monster - quite a diversion for a rock singer) and had he lived longer perhaps could have done the sort of presenter thing that Neil Oliver does now.

Here he is on The Old Grey Whistle text with his inimitable take on the old Jimmie Rodgers classic:


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Thankee ;~) So often soul seemly seeks to exorcise humanity. I hope to find soul in glasgow tenements not just picturesque glens.

No idea what the second half of your post means, sounds terrifying, not even going to try.

Forgot
Mogwai - 



 - Oh! How the Dogs stack up!
****s of Trust - 



 - With added Burns
The Beta Band - 



Primal Scream - 



There Will Be Fireworks - 




Gahhh forgot one of my very favourite albums:
Mull Historical Society -


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Although at first hearing he can seem rather outlandish, I always think that the late poet and singer Ivor Cutler expressed something quintessential (though oblique) about a now largely vanished Scottish way of life. His 'Life in a Scotch Sitting Room' always reminds me of older generations of my own family. Enjoy!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Has anyone mentioned Hamish Imlach yet? He had some incisive insights into life in the tenements, yet connected also with Scottish history as shown in the glorious English & Scottish Border Ballads.
I wrote a thesis on the Ballads and to me they represent the soul of the north - both sides of the border; because we're a' Jock Tamson's bairns.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Taggart said:


> Be careful about disparaging Andy Stewart or we'll bring on Kenneth McKellar, Moira Anderson, Jimmy Logan, Harry Lauder, the Alexander Brothers,Calum Kennedy and Will Fyffe. (The latter is guaranteed to drive you bananas!)


Heck, that is a heavy series of trump cards to win a hand. I give in entirely


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Although at first hearing he can seem rather outlandish, I always think that the late poet and singer Ivor Cutler expressed something quintessential (though oblique) about a now largely vanished Scottish way of life. His 'Life in a Scotch Sitting Room' always reminds me of older generations of my own family. Enjoy!


Good call! I remember being in stitches listening to this - I first heard it on John Peel's shows (in the dim and distant past when 'alternative music' was my preferred choice). Ivor Cutler is well worth investigating if you have a slightly warped sense of humour


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Ivor Cutler is well worth investigating *if you have a slightly warped sense of humour*


Meaning me, I suppose? 

*I posted a "John Peel Show" Ivor Cutler session from 1984, yesterday on the "Non-classical music I'm currently listening to' thread", HH


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So all the Scotch Tape I bought will not now be appreciating dramatically in value?


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Well, I came to this thread pretty late, and I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but a couple of months back I was listening to Arnold Bax' 'The Tale The Pine-Trees Knew' and discovered whilst reading the CD booklet that it was inspired by Scotland. Of course, I associate Bax with Ireland, but he was quoted in the notes as saying that in the programmatic associations of the piece he was 'thinking of two landscapes dominated by pine-trees - Norway and the West of Scotland - thinking too of the Norse sagas and the wild traditional legends of the Highland Celt'.


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