# Best Individual Opera in The Ring Cycle?



## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I most often hear Wagner's Ring talked about as a single piece of art. I am curious what TC's opera fans think is the best individual opera within the cycle.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

My favorite is "Die Walküre".


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## malvinrisan (Feb 17, 2017)

You should have made it a multiple choice poll, i think.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

If forced to choose, I would go with Götterdämmerung. There is something so architeUtonic about it.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

For now, I'll say Gotterdammerung, Walkure, Rheingold, Siegfried. It moves around but Gotterdammerung and Walkure are always ahead of Rheingold and Seigfried for me.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

malvinrisan said:


> You should have made it a multiple choice poll, i think.


Do you have two or three tied for the top spot that edge out the one or two others? If so, please put that in a reply to the thread. Otherwise, the idea is that you can pick a favorite or abstain.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

malvinrisan said:


> You should have made it a multiple choice poll, i think.


But that wouldn't be a challenge. I went with Die Walkure; it has the famous ride.


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## malvinrisan (Feb 17, 2017)

Okay, i take back my remark. I'm really into Götterdämmerung at the moment.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Gotterdammurung first with Rheingold a very, very close second


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

The version I saw is one of those artsy anachronistic productions that started the cycle traditionally with winged "viking" helmets but ended with WW2 era costumes and props. I thought that was just silly and ruined an otherwise great experience. But if forced to choose I'd take Götterdämmerung if only for Siegfried's Funeral March and Finale. That segment never fails to send goose bumps up my arms.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Die Walkure first, no hesitation .


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Weston said:


> The version I saw is one of those artsy anachronistic productions that started the cycle traditionally with winged "viking" helmets but ended with WW2 era costumes and props. I thought that was just silly and ruined an otherwise great experience. But if forced to choose I'd take Götterdämmerung if only for Siegfried's Funeral March and Finale. That segment never fails to send goose bumps up my arms.


Where was this? It sounds it could be an interesting way to convey the changes to the world that happen over the cycle. Of course even interesting ideas can be poorly done or otherwise not work out in practice.

And Siegfried's Funeral March is probably my favorite section of the Ring! So wonderful.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I answered _Die Walküre_ but really any of them except for _Das Rheingold_ could be my answer.

The latter has some stunning music and is a effective introduction to the cycle, but seems to lack in drama, mostly being about setting the stage.

For a long time _Siegfried_ was my least favorite, and one of my least favorite by Wagner overall, but now I see it as a contender for favorite. It is, among the Ring operas, the most dependent upon a single singer.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

For a long time _Siegfried_ was my favorite, and my favorite by Wagner overall. But for even longer now it's been _Die Walküre_ all the way for me.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)




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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

My brain is short circuiting. I can't choose. I love them all.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Its clearly Walkure! All of the music is amazing from Siegmund/Sieglende, Wotan/Fricka, The Ride, Wotan/Brunnhilde, finishing with the Farewell. Gotterdammerung is great, but we have to tolerate Gutrune & Gunther etc. Brunnhilde has some amazing music no doubt, but I don't think it measures up to Walkure on the whole.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Taken as a whole Die Walkûre, and in spite of Woton's Narrative. You would have thought that Brunhilde would have heard that long and convoluted story through the grapevine and stopped him after the first sentence, but no such luck. That's where you hear the snoring start from those sitting around you. Still it takes you on quite a Ride and ends Magically. 

Regarding the others, Das Reingold has the best momentum. 

Siegfried is the most boring in a forest murmuring bird sort of way.

Die Gôtterdämmerung has the most forceful moments such as Siegfried's Death and Funeral Music, and that ethereal ending. Too bad, Siefried was not the brightest bulb in the marquee. It could have saved an hour or two of way too much of a "good" thing. 

Hey, based on my screen name I think I was reasonably fair!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> If forced to choose, I would go with Götterdämmerung. There is something so architeUtonic about it.


I would also.

Götterdämmerung contains Wagner's greatest music in the Ring Cycle. For me, Wagner definitely saved the best for last.

No "dry spells" which disqualifies Die Walküre as number one for me.

Inspired from the first note of the Prologue to the final redemption by love theme after Brünnhilde's Immolation Scene.

Like all great music, the elapsed time proceeds swiftly and I would hardly be aware that 5 1/2 to 6 hours has passed by....

....except for those damned intermissions!! :lol:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Bonetan said:


> Its clearly Walkure! All of the music is amazing from Siegmund/Sieglende, Wotan/Fricka, The Ride, Wotan/Brunnhilde, finishing with the Farewell. Gotterdammerung is great, *but we have to tolerate Gutrune & Gunther etc*. Brunnhilde has some amazing music no doubt, but I don't think it measures up to Walkure on the whole.


As long as Gunther is sung by someone like Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, there is no problem with "tolerating" him.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> As long as Gunther is sung by someone like Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, there is no problem with "tolerating" him.


Yes, in the Solti performance. "Cadillac" casting.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> As long as Gunther is sung by someone like Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, there is no problem with "tolerating" him.


I am not a DFD fan in Wagner. He shouldn't have sung anything heavier than Wolfram imho.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I am not a DFD fan in Wagner. He shouldn't have sung anything heavier than Wolfram imho.


He does Wagner better then Verdi though.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> I am not a DFD fan in Wagner. He shouldn't have sung anything heavier than Wolfram imho.


I think he's good to excellent in recordings as Kurwenal, Gunther, Amfortas, Telramund and Wolfram. Absolutely wrong for Sachs, Wotan and the Hollander though.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

howlingfantods said:


> I think he's good to excellent in recordings as Kurwenal, Gunther, Amfortas, Telramund and Wolfram. Absolutely wrong for Sachs, Wotan and the Hollander though.


I very much enjoy him in Jochum's Meistersinger and Karajan's Rheingold.
I think he brings a new dimension to those characters.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

It's difficult to make a choice, but I keep coming back to Siegfried. It's a technical marvel for any heldentenor, the Forging Song is one of my favorite bits of Wagner, the interplay of Wotan, Alberich, Fafner, Mime, Siegfried and the Waldvogel in Act II is just wonderful, and there's nothing to equal the confrontation of Wotan and Siegfried at the start of Act III. Then the glorious awakening and love duet--it's an amazing piece of work (as are all the parts of the Ring).


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Pugg said:


> He [DFD] does Wagner better then Verdi though.


Damning with faint praise....


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

gardibolt said:


> It's difficult to make a choice, but I keep coming back to Siegfried. It's a technical marvel for any heldentenor, the Forging Song is one of my favorite bits of Wagner, the interplay of Wotan, Alberich, Fafner, Mime, Siegfried and the Waldvogel in Act II is just wonderful, and there's nothing to equal the confrontation of Wotan and Siegfried at the start of Act III. Then the glorious awakening and love duet--it's an amazing piece of work (as are all the parts of the Ring).


A few years ago I would have agreed with you. Nowadays my batting order is Götterdämmerung, Siegfried, Rheingold, Walküre.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tough choice between the poignant humanity of _Walkure_ and the glowering grandeur of _Gotterdammerung_. But then there's the sylvan enchantment of _Siegfried_ and the bracing freshness of _Rheingold._

_Vive les differences!_


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks to all who have voted (though you can still vote if you haven't). The picture I'm getting is that the Ring operas are like the Star Trek classic movies in that the even-numbered ones are more impressive.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

bharbeke said:


> Thanks to all who have voted (though you can still vote if you haven't). The picture I'm getting is that the Ring operas are like the Star Trek classic movies in that the even-numbered ones are more impressive.


I must have voted because it won't let me vote now. But I don't know what I voted for. Probably Walkure. Right now I am thinking that Siegfried might be the one to go with.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> I haven't heard them all yet


I wonder if those two voters did spin them since voting.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Unfortunately no living soul has made it through _Siegfried _without falling asleep, so it's quality cannot be completely ascertained. According to the speculation of some scholars, the opera was never even completed and has no proper ending.

So it's between _Die Walkure_ and _Gotterdammerung_. I chose _Gotterdammerung _because the name is badass.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

For me _Walküre_ for sure. It's got that Ride o' the Mounted Bitches in it and then culminates with the Chief Hojotohoer herself. I love to put it on during a big thunderstorm and see which soprano busts a gasket first.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Couchie said:


> I chose _Gotterdammerung _because the name is badass.


I prefer the Swedish title: Ragnarök.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Barelytenor said:


> For me _Walküre_ for sure. It's got that Ride o' the Mounted Bitches in it and then culminates with the Chief Hojotohoer herself. I love to put it on during a big thunderstorm and see which soprano busts a gasket first.
> 
> Kind regards, :tiphat:
> 
> George


This post is uncouth. I like you.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Couth is so overdone.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I must have voted because it won't let me vote now. But I don't know what I voted for. Probably Walkure. Right now I am thinking that Siegfried might be the one to go with.


Of all the Ring operas I always felt that Walküre was over-rated and Siegfried was vastly under-rated, relatively speaking of course. All four have value but I think Siegfried has always had a raw deal critically. My favourite, and it's like choosing a child, is Götterdämmerung, but again, it's all relative.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Barbebleu said:


> Of all the Ring operas I always felt that Walküre was over-rated and Siegfried was vastly under-rated, relatively speaking of course. All four have value but I think Siegfried has always had a raw deal critically. My favourite, and it's like choosing a child, is Götterdämmerung, but again, it's all relative.


It is the only Ring opera that has comedy, at least I find it very funny when Mime's thoughts ate clearly heard by Siegfried. There also is the part in the beginning (at least in the Levine DVD) where Siegfried is harassing Mime with a black bear. Made me think of Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Love them all, but lately listen more to Siegfried


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Tough choice between the poignant humanity of _Walkure_ and the glowering grandeur of _Gotterdammerung_. But then there's the sylvan enchantment of _Siegfried_ and the bracing freshness of _Rheingold._
> 
> _Vive les differences!_


Woodduck: It worries me that I keep agreeing with you!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

aussiebushman said:


> Woodduck: It worries me that I keep agreeing with you!


It worries me too. I must be losing my curmudgeonly edge.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> It is the only Ring opera that has comedy, at least I find it very funny when Mime's thoughts ate clearly heard by Siegfried. There also is the part in the beginning (at least in the Levine DVD) where Siegfried is harassing Mime with a black bear. Made me think of Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies.


Don't forget Siegfried trying to imitate bird song. Then there's his reaction to seeing Brunnhilde's twin peaks on the mountaintop.

I also find some humor elsewhere in the _Ring_. Alberich's clumsy seduction of the Rhinemaidens is rather funny, and if Loge is properly portrayed he should be slim, agile, hyperactive, amused, and amusing.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Die Walkure - no brainer


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Don't forget Siegfried trying to imitate bird song. Then there's his reaction to seeing Brunnhilde's twin peaks on the mountaintop.
> 
> I also find some humor elsewhere in the _Ring_. Alberich's clumsy seduction of the Rhinemaidens is rather funny, and if Loge is properly portrayed he should be slim, agile, hyperactive, amused, and amusing.


Ah yes, Rheingold has a good bit of humor and if one likes a twisted humor, they can laugh as invisible Albrecht beats up Mime. Personally, I had sympathy for Mime at that point.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

i can't imagine the gigantic leap Das Rheingold had on all preceding opera.
It's a colossus imho.
And to me never gets old.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Itullian said:


> i can't imagine the gigantic leap Das Rheingold had on all preceding opera.
> It's a colossus imho.
> And to me never gets old.


It _is_ remarkable, what a brave new world it represents in the history of musical drama. But what floors me about Wagner - well, _one_ of the things that floors me - is that he discovered a brave new world with every opera. Even within the _Ring_, each installment has a spirit and atmosphere of its own. I don't think any other composer did this to the same extent.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> Of all the Ring operas I always felt that Walküre was over-rated and Siegfried was vastly under-rated, relatively speaking of course. All four have value but I think Siegfried has always had a raw deal critically. My favourite, and it's like choosing a child, is Götterdämmerung, but again, it's all relative.


I have several complete recordings plus many excerpts form the Ring and have just acquired a 2-record set of Melchior from someone who obviously had no idea what he was selling. One side of the set is highlights from Seigfried. You are absolutely correct that reactions are subjective, but for me, Seigfried would have been improved by serious editing, especially the "Hi-Ho" nonsense.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

aussiebushman said:


> I have several complete recordings plus many excerpts form the Ring and have just acquired a 2-record set of Melchior from someone who obviously had no idea what he was selling. One side of the set is highlights from Seigfried. You are absolutely correct that reactions are subjective, but for me, Seigfried would have been improved by serious editing, especially the "Hi-Ho" nonsense.


Are you talking about his forging song?


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