# Mozart - get real. Seriously.



## Xytech (Apr 7, 2011)

So I was about to do some study and I put on Mozart Symphony 1. It really is quite a nice symphony. Anyway, I check the wiki, and see that he wrote it when he was 8. Seriously. 8? Now I've lost my motivation to study as I am just sitting here feeling useless that at the ripe old age of 22 I haven't done anything remotely comparable to something he pulled off at 8. So Mozart, consider this a posthumous sarcastic "thank you" sent your way.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

You don't have forums full of people calling you overrated, either, so it evens out a little.

Also, child prodigies creep me out. They remind me of trained little monkeys.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

regressivetransphobe said:


> You don't have forums full of people calling you overrated, either, so it evens out a little.


Ha ha, that's kind of what I thought when I read the title of this thread, here we go, another thread dissing Mozart! Turned out to be quite the opposite, but in a roundabout kind of way...



> ...Also, child prodigies creep me out. They remind me of trained little monkeys.


Hummel had a similar opinion, that's why he didn't teach the young Liszt, but Liszt ended up playing one of Hummel's piano concertos anyway in his first concerto performance at the age of about 12...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I heard that symphony had parallel fifths. 

Of course I didn't write anything with parallel fifths until I was in high school.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I always feel the very early symphonies were on the same level as most good second-rate composers, but after the age of 13 or so they were better and by the time he reached 16 he was composing symphonies way in advance of most of is contemporaries.


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

When I turned 38 and had a birthday party, I had to make a speech. I said "On my 38th birthday, I like to compare my achievements to Mozart. When Mozart was my age, he had been dead for 3 years". 

Original quote belonged to someone else but I can't remember who


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Xytech said:


> So I was about to do some study and I put on Mozart Symphony 1. It really is quite a nice symphony. Anyway, I check the wiki, and see that he wrote it when he was 8. Seriously. 8? Now I've lost my motivation to study as I am just sitting here feeling useless that at the ripe old age of 22 I haven't done anything remotely comparable to something he pulled off at 8. So Mozart, consider this a posthumous sarcastic "thank you" sent your way.


You should compile a list of works Mozart wrote when he was 22/early 20s, that might really impress you.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Of course, you have to keep in mind that Wolfgang's father began Wolfgang's instruction pretty much as soon as he was conceived. He taught himself to play the piano at three, and Leopold just took it away from there. Yes, there was a lot of natural talent, but it would have been worth nothing had it not been cultivated.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> You should compile a list of works Mozart wrote when he was 22/early 20s, that might really impress you.


Some of the works that Mozart had written by the time he was 22:

Symphonies 1-31
Piano Concertos 5-9 (Nos 1-4 weren't original compositions)
ALL the violin concertos
Bassoon Concerto
Flute & Harp Concerto
Violin Sonatas 1-23
String Quartets 1-13
String Quintet No 1
Flute Quartets 1-4
6 Serenades, including _Serenata notturna_ and _Haffner_ Serenade
Numerous divertimenti and cassations
Masses 1-14
_Exsultate jubilate_
12 operas, including _La finta semplice_, _Lucio Silla_, _La finta giardiniera_ and _Il re pastore_

Not bad, eh?


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> Some of the works that Mozart had written by the time he was 22:
> 
> Symphonies 1-31
> Piano Concertos 5-9 (Nos 1-4 weren't original compositions)
> ...


Add to that the early lost work's, a number of Bassoon concertos and even a Trumpet concerto, wouldn't it be great if they would turn up, but alas probably lost forever.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

presto said:


> Add to that the early lost work's, a number of Bassoon concertos and even a Trumpet concerto, wouldn't it be great if they would turn up, but alas probably lost forever.


Not neccessarily so. New works by the great composers surface every few years. You never know what might be unearthed in an old library, museum or someone's attic.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Xytech said:


> Now I've lost my motivation to study as I am just sitting here feeling useless that at the ripe old age of 22 I haven't done anything remotely comparable to something he pulled off at 8.


But compared to Anton Bruckner, you're coming along quite nicely.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

You can always check this page: http://www.italianopera.org/luchesi/luchesijupiterE.html
and see how Mozart's name was written over someone else's (perhaps Luchese):








Some of the early works are attributed to Leopold, Mozart's father and some point to his sister Nannerl, who did compose music, but lived in a period when women couldn't publish anything. Wikipedia (the most reliable source ever to be created  ) has a compiled list of hypothesis of origin of "Mozart's" symphonies. Bear in mind that authorship issues back then were not this sophisticated as they are today (and there are still uncredited people around, even today) - people saw no problems in taking someone's piece of music, revising it, performing it, without ever mentioning original author(s).

But the myth is created, people attach to it, and historical revisionism would not only render almost useless tons of books and articles about him, shatter _expertise _of "Mozart experts", but also question Mozarteum (although it shouldn't, I'm sure they know their job there), hurt emotionally a lot of fans, and hurt economically candy industry. So, it is not likely to happen at all. But you can check into Mozart's authorship question if it will mean anything to you.

For me, as a listener, it doesn't mean much, but I have developed love for historical revisionism after living in 1990s Balkans and seeing historical falsification in the making, so I like this more pro-active approach to history, more questioning, less accepting, even if I don't find clear answers: better to leave open question than to rush to conclusions, or should I say - closure. And that is not just in politics, but also arts (like this Mozart case), religion, archeology, or any subject I find interesting...

best regards,
graaf


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I've always felt that Mozart's early abilities were other-worldly. For such a phenomenon everything had to fall perfectly in place. As Kopachris mentioned Mozart benefited from one of the world's greatest teachers ready and willing to push him early and often.

His early symphonies are amazing (I actually really like his 6th), but the story that I find incomprehensible is Mozart's listening to Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus and writing the entire work down from memory. I've read this story many times and always wondered - assuming it happened, did he get it exactly correct? I can imagine someone with a great ear hearing the notes correctly, but could anyone actually remember 10-12 minutes of music perfectly on one listen?


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I love those early symphonies and hear them quite often!


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

YAMT - yet another mozart thread


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

mmsbls said:


> the story that I find incomprehensible is Mozart's listening to Allegri's Miserere Mei Deus and writing the entire work down from memory. I've read this story many times and always wondered - assuming it happened, did he get it exactly correct? I can imagine someone with a great ear hearing the notes correctly, but could anyone actually remember 10-12 minutes of music perfectly on one listen?


Actually, the Allegri _Miserere_ is not a complex piece. Not a great deal happens and there is a lot of repetition. The young Mozart wouldn't have had to remember as well as, say, if he were remembering a sonata-form first movement of a Haydn symphony.

Other composers who, in their own way, were writing extraordinarily mature music at a very young age would be Mendelssohn and Korngold. If you look at the music of these two composers' teens, one finds music that is, if anything, perhaps even more mature for the composer's tender years.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> Other composers who, in their own way, were writing extraordinarily mature music at a very young age would be Mendelssohn and Korngold. If you look at the music of these two composers' teens, one finds music that is, if anything, perhaps even more mature for the composer's tender years.


The following pieces were written between 1933 and 1934 by Andre Mathieu - he would have been no older than *five years old*. From a 78 rpm disc, made in Paris in the late 1930's for Boîte a Musique; Mathieu was an eight-year-old prodigy when he recorded this.

http://www.musiccentre.ca/apps/inde...yByItemId&bibliographyId=18686&recordTypeId=8


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I always find the fawning over childhood talent to be a little... weird. Yes, I am intensely jealous.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

For Mozart to write as much as he did at such a tender age is great but I can only assume he didn't have as much non-musical homework to do as other budding geniuses from later generations!


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Amfibius said:


> When I turned 38 and had a birthday party, I had to make a speech. I said "On my 38th birthday, I like to compare my achievements to Mozart. When Mozart was my age, he had been dead for 3 years".
> 
> Original quote belonged to someone else but I can't remember who


Tom Lehrer, I think.
GG


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Argerich plays Beethoven 1st Concerto at the age of 8:





The finale of the Schumann concerto has some interesting phrasing


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Andre Mathieu was a child prodigy, similar to Mozart. Unfortunately his adult life was destroyed by alcoholism. Like Mozart, he died young, at 39. He didn't reach Mozart accomplishments, though.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

sabrina said:


> Andre Mathieu was a child prodigy, similar to Mozart. Unfortunately his adult life was destroyed by alcoholism. Like Mozart, he died young, at 39. He didn't reach Mozart accomplishments, though.


I agree, we can only attribute Mozart's accomplishments to his prodigy a limited extent, if we all had his killer work ethic, even without natural genius, think what we could achieve...


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Haven't you guys read Robert Newman? Mozart was a sham composer!


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Some people are "gifted" capable of things that you and I could not begin to conceive. I know someone who I would consider gifted and i think the gifted pay a high price for their abilities. When I spoke to a relative of mine who is a psychiatrist about my friend's problems he told that that guinus and madness are two sides of the same coin. Perhaps Mozart was troubled in some way to most truely gifted people lack the ordinariness most of us take for granted.

From what I have read I know he was very sick and he died young at the age of 35 I think. He was from a time so long ago that what we are told by people writing at the time is not always reliable.

Whether or not he wrote them I wouldn't let that get you down after all for now your alive and he is dead, the upper hand is yours my friend.


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