# Late Beethoven String Quartets



## timothyjuddviolin (Nov 1, 2011)

Some of the most amazing music ever written and here is an excellent recording:

Late Beethoven Revelations


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes they are, as are his late piano sonatas starting with the Hammerklavier. An amazing composer!


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2014)

The Takacs Quartet for the entire string quartet cycle is my preferred set. One of my earliest purchases since really getting into classical music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My favorite is the Tokyo quartet's entire set. The one on RCA before they made personnel changes.

I also have the complete Lindsay and the complete Emerson, but the Tokyo gets to the heart of the matter like no other.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

The most interesting thing in what you said was where you were quoting someone else about life and death being omnipresent in some works. 

All the 'visionary' 'prophetic' vagaries doesn't mean anything without some backup ideas, I still think they are of their time as any works inevitably are, composers don't have time travel machines. And maybe they might seem strange works at first, but after hearing them for a while they really aren't that strange. Maybe quite a few new works can sound strange at first. But they've been talked about plenty anyway, including here. There must be some other less talked about 'revelations' somewhere.


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## Draugen (Dec 26, 2013)

What are peoples thoughts on the Vegh Quartet for Beethoven? I own the complete Quartet Cycle by the Vegh Quartet, and am so happy with them I've never really felt the need to go elsewhere. Maybe the grass is greener on the other side though.. have to admit I'm tempted by the Tackas.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would recommend the Vegh for anything! A terrific quartet.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Definitely some of the best quartets of all time. I like mine cooked by Alban Berg. Technically sharp, but doesn't forget the heart of the matter... or the matter of the heart, however you see it.

:tiphat:


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

There are no really "bad" sets of the quartets, although, especially for the late ones, I tend to have a different "favorite" performance for each quartet


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I have the Amadeus Quartet's set of the complete SQs: sublime and full of revelation, clarity and lucidity.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

GGluek said:


> There are no really "bad" sets of the quartets, although, especially for the late ones, I tend to have a different "favorite" performance for each quartet


Beg to differ. One set from the Lindsays had intonation so bad, I couldn't listen.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The RCA Tokyo, the Italiano, the RCA Guarneri and the Alban Berg for me.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Quartetto Italiano and the Tokyo SQ (which I heard in a live cycle 15-20 years ago, one of the most amazing concert cycle I went to).
The Takacs Quartet is outstanding as well, but imo their Razumovsky are a (small) step ahead their Late.

Did anyone listen to the Belcea new recording?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Agree on the Takacs and place their late quartets at or near the top as well. However the older Tokyo on RCA is or was available as a complete cycle far more cheaply. I say "older" because they issued a new cycle shortly before hanging up their bows, which is also quite good.

The Takacs are still going strong but there's no sign of a replacement Beethoven cycle from them, nor is one needed.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Italians are masterly. I had them on LP. 

I have the Alben Berg on CD. Really good playing.

Of course this is such a complex music that there is no one 'best' version

I once heard the Amadeus play late Beethoven at a concert. That was a great evening!


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## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

My favorites are the Quartetto Italiano and the Busch Quartet, that is an older record but quite amazing.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Quartetto Italiano, a name from the past. They were an excellent group.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DrMike said:


> The Takacs Quartet for the entire string quartet cycle is my preferred set. One of my earliest purchases since really getting into classical music.


I really like Takacs too; especially their Schubert; and most especially the stellar Hyperion engineering jobs.


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## DebussyDoesDallas (Jan 11, 2014)

I like all the sets mentioned by others, of course, but one set I don't hear mentioned much but which I really like is the Yale Quartet's set of the lates. You can get it absurdly cheap on Amazon. Something about it--the atmosphere, the pacing, the intangibles--grabs me as much if not more than some that are better recorded (Alexander, Artemis) or more technically proficient (Berg, Emerson)

Indeed, some of the best music every written.


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## JohnD (Jan 27, 2014)

Itullian said:


> The RCA Tokyo, the Italiano, the RCA Guarneri and the Alban Berg for me.


I like the RCA Guarneri too.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

I recently heard the Gross Fuge, Op. 133 for the first time. Recorded by the Tokyo Quartet. I was stunned and amazed by it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. That's my favorite performance of it. Tough piece. Glad you heard one of the best performances of it, if it's the "old" Tokyo on RCA. They've since changed personnel; not for the better.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Jerome said:


> I recently heard the Gross Fuge, Op. 133 for the first time. Recorded by the Tokyo Quartet. I was stunned and amazed by it.


I like it in its original place as the finale to Op130.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starry said:


> I like it in its original place as the finale to Op130.


Agreed. I just listened to Op. 130 recently and the alternate finale just sounds anti-climatic after the Cavatina movement. I just don't think Beethoven's heart was in the other finale like it was in the Cavatina or the Grosse Fugue.

Although that's just my feeling. Beethoven could have really liked composing that alternate finale and It's just not coming across to me.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

The Yale's Opus 127 is my preferred recording. Their Opp. 131 and 132 are also really good. (for some strange reason , I don't think they were as good when Walter Trampler played viola with them.)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

In the current Fanfare, there is a comprehensive and convincing analysis as to why the Grosse Fuge is the correct finale of Opus 130.
Any quartet performing this great music, ending it with the alternative finale, with no Grosse Fuge in sight, should be taken out back and shot.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Yes. That's my favorite performance of it. Tough piece. Glad you heard one of the best performances of it, if it's the "old" Tokyo on RCA. They've since changed personnel; not for the better.


Yes it's the RCA version. Love it.



starry said:


> I like it in its original place as the finale to Op130.


I separated it after reading that he published it as Op. 133. His final choice was to end 130 with the rondo and let 133 stand separately, so I like it that way.


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## Vinyl (Jan 22, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Any quartet performing this great music, ending it with the alternative finale, with no Grosse Fuge in sight, should be taken out back and shot.


I think that's a bit harsh. How about just forcing them to listen to bad recordings of it for eternity?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Vinyl said:


> I think that's a bit harsh. How about just forcing them to listen to bad recordings of it for eternity?


Read the Fanfare defense of the Grosse Fuge as the proper ending. It's a very technical defense and very convincing.

Which do you think Beethoven would go with?

The Grosse Fuge would be a terrific piece to play over loud speakers in order to clear large groups of teenagers and/or protesters. I'd love to see that!!! 

Perhaps I should recommend it to the FBI!!!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Jerome said:


> I separated it after reading that he published it as Op. 133. His final choice was to end 130 with the rondo and let 133 stand separately, so I like it that way.


Final choice based on the pressure of people saying it was unplayable and the opportunity to earn more money as another published piece.

Obviously you can listen to it however you want, but I'm just questioning your reasoning. Beethoven was in money trouble at the end of his life.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

starry said:


> Final choice based on the pressure of people saying it was unplayable and the opportunity to earn more money as another published piece.
> 
> Obviously you can listen to it however you want, but I'm just questioning your reasoning. Beethoven was in money trouble at the end of his life.


Doesn't wash. Beethoven was under no pressure -- the suggestion to replace the finale was put to him quite gingerly. He asked for a very moderate amount for a new finale (which he never collected) and ended up preparing the piano four-hand transcription of the Grosse Fuge, Op. 134, for practically nothing since the publisher had already paid somebody else to do it, and B. wasn't satisfied.

Everything I've read indicates that B. had ambiguous feelings about the use of the fugue in the Op. 130, especially after its poor reception in early performances. The decision to publish with the new finale was his and his alone. Of course we can listen to it any way we like!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

If he had a problem it was that it was very poorly, embarrasingly performed. That was more the fault of the players than the music, as modern performances would show.

I haven't read any technical analysis of the quartet, but using my own ears (maybe a good way) the fugue fits into the whole dance theme of the quartet quite nicely. And the replacement finale isn't as substantial of any of the other last movements Beethoven wrote, it's like he wrote something simpler so there wouldn't be any more problems with the performers.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

It's nice that a discussion developed on LvB's Late String Quartets. But is a new thread necessary? 

Alas, I think the OPie is more interested in self-promotion, via planting his reviews on various new threads. The moderators might like to investigate. :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't feel that way. The OP, a long-time forum member, referred us to a nice blog entry on his web page, which I (at least) enjoyed. Not at all sure what he would be "promoting" on this forum.

He obviously put a lot of work into this particular entry, and it's understandable that he might want a few other people to see it.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

KenOC said:


> He obviously put a lot of work into this particular entry


You really think so?

I do share some concern. The only posts he does are promoting his name and blog, which aren't even that informative (it seems to me).


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## RobertKC (Dec 9, 2013)

I listened to several of The Late String Quartets this morning by the Tokyo String Quartet recorded on Harmonia Mundi at 88 kHz / 24 bit FLAC (Release date 2010). This is my only recording of these pieces. I enjoy them very much, and the sound quality is excellent. Are there better performances that have excellent audio quality (i.e., captured via top quality recording)? If so, I’d like to have another performance of this music on LPs, or perhaps SACDs or additional high-res FLAC recordings. Any suggestions will be appreciated.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

starry said:


> You really think so?
> 
> I do share some concern. The only posts he does are promoting his name and blog, which aren't even that informative (it seems to me).


Well, it would certainly be a lot of work for me! I mean, the embedded players and formatting and all. A pro could probably turn it out pretty quickly.

I'm not familiar with the OP's other posts but did appreciate this one.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I wonder when I submitted a post that had a sample of the band I played with if it violated some rule.

I have known others who have done similar entries.

I do not understand what line the OP crossed.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

RobertKC said:


> I listened to several of The Late String Quartets this morning by the Tokyo String Quartet recorded on Harmonia Mundi at 88 kHz / 24 bit FLAC (Release date 2010). This is my only recording of these pieces. I enjoy them very much, and the sound quality is excellent. Are there better performances that have excellent audio quality (i.e., captured via top quality recording)? If so, I'd like to have another performance of this music on LPs, or perhaps SACDs or additional high-res FLAC recordings. Any suggestions will be appreciated.


The Belcea, available from Qobuz, Linn (and other sites) in 24-bit flac
I have not listened to them, but they have received very good reviews.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

arpeggio said:


> I wonder when I submitted a post that had a sample of the band I played with if it violated some rule.


Well I guess it was at least some music you played. Did you post a new thread for every piece you played and then disappear after the original post as if you were just presenting something for discussion and posting your blog address and that was it?

To me it feels like the articles are very bare bones, it's like it's left up to us to actually write his articles for him in our responses, while we hear nothing from him.


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