# Schubert's 9th - recommended recordings?



## Kryten

I've been listening to a recording of Schubert's 9th recently - to put it lightly, I had to wait in the car for almost an hour this afternoon with nothing else to do but listen to this symphony... the time passed in what felt like _seconds_. 

The recording I have is one from a BBC Music Magazine coverdisc, recorded live at the BBC Proms back in '91. I couldn't really fault the performance but, as it's a live recording in front of an audience, it contains a fair amount of sneezing and coughing.

Therefore, I offer myself infront of this forum's collective expertise and ask: are there any recordings of this symphony that you'd particularly recommend as a replacement? Are there any I should avoid?

Many thanks in advance :cheers:


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## Itullian

one of my top ten fav symps

i like Karajan's EMI, Solti out of print, Bohm, Muti,. all stereo

Furtwangler is great if you don't mind mono.

you can get Bohms box of all the symps for about 20 dollars.


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## elgar's ghost

Kryten said:


> I've been listening to a recording of Schubert's 9th recently - to put it lightly, I had to wait in the car for almost an hour this afternoon with nothing else to do but listen to this symphony... the time passed in what felt like _seconds_.
> 
> Many thanks in advance :cheers:


That's nice to read bearing in mind the amount of folk who think the 9th is far too long! Among the recordings of which I'm particularly fond of even though in time-honoured fashion they have garnered disdain and praise alike - Charles Munch's fleet (c. 45 minutes) 50s recording with the Boston SO (on the RCA 'Living Stereo' disc it comes with a v. good Unfinished). Another - which I used to own and play regularly but has since unaccountably gone walkies - is Gardiner's 90s lush but sprightly recording on DG with the VPO. If you fancy a heftier 'heavy-duty' performance (detractors may instead say 'stodgy') try Bohm's recording on DG with the BPO.


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## GrosseFugue

The only version you need is Furtwangler's: http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC253.php

It's ruined any other version for me. Yes, it's mono. But it's SO INCREDIBLE that won't matter. Even Solti's highly vaunted version seems to pale in comparison.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Seriously, there is rarely a single "definitive" recording of a major work such as Schubert's 9th (Kleiber's recording of Beethoven's 5th may be an exception... and even then it is enlightening to hear other interpretations such as Gardiner's HIP version). For Schubert's 9th I would suggest Furtwangler, Karajan, Solti, Ivan Fischer, Solti, or George Szell... any one of which is a fine recording in its own right. The "best" depends upon your own personal tastes.


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## Rangstrom

Hard to find, but the live '57 Knappertsbusch/VPO is very good. I also have a weak spot for (the very different) Klemperer and Krips studio recordings.


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## appoggiatura

The version with Ricardo Muti and the Wiener Philarmoniker is good too.


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## itywltmt

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Seriously, there is rarely a single "definitive" recording of a major work such as Schubert's 9th (Kleiber's recording of Beethoven's 5th may be an exception... and even then it is enlightening to hear other interpretations such as Gardiner's HIP version).


I couldn't agree with you more...

Here are the three I have in my colllection - in order of acquisition:

- Schippers/Cincinnati SO (VOX on cassettte)
- Tate/Staatskapelle Dresde (Angel, Vinyl)
- Abbado/Chamber Orch of Europe (DG, DDD) - so-called "manuscript version"

I like them all, but I prefer the *Tate *among the three. I found the Tate in re-issue, as part of a mammoth set showcasing the recorded legacy of Staatskaopelle Dresde, so I'm not the only person who thinks highly of that recording...

Other suggestions in this thread are also probably VG in their own right, though I only heard some of them once.

As for the symphony itself, it is a _milestone _work, judged "too long, too pompous, too difficult" in Schubert's time, and was given a proper reading by Mendelssohn and the Leipzig Gewandhaus decades after Schubert's passing, at the behest of Robert Schumann. I agree it is a "milestone", but don't consider it Schubert's best work - at times, I find the "little C Major" to be a more ingenious work...


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## GrosseFugue

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Seriously, there is rarely a single "definitive" recording of a major work such as Schubert's 9th


Yes, but I still think Kryten will be BLOWN AWAY once he hears the Furtwangler wartime version.  Play it LOUD. And if you've got a great system then I envy the heck out of you!


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## bigshot

My favorite is Sinopoli


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## GrosseFugue

bigshot said:


> My favorite is Sinopoli


Bigshot, I have Sinopoli's Schubert 8. I remember it as being very good, with a personal stamp to it; different. (Still not as good as Furtie's though ) How would you characterize his 9th as being?


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## joen_cph

For people not offended by vintage sound, the various Mengelbergs and Abendroth should also be mentioned - lots of original details and very engaged playing.


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## muxamed

I vote for Bernstein's recording on Sony. It can be hard to find.


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## realdealblues

Bernstein's sony recording for me too. I also like Karajan's recording from 1968. Both wonderful.


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## kv466

I have a few by some great names but for this piece I stick with my boy Rene Leibowitz and The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra of the early 60's.


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## tgtr0660

Mackerras' on Telarc is one of the best. 

Bruggen's recording with the Orchestra of the 18th Century is vastly underrated.


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## Pestouille

tgtr0660 said:


> Mackerras' on Telarc is one of the best.
> 
> Bruggen's recording with the Orchestra of the 18th Century is vastly underrated.


Good point for the Bruggen! Why not Günter Wand?


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## brianwalker

Rangstrom said:


> Hard to find, but the live '57 Knappertsbusch/VPO is very good. I also have a weak spot for (the very different) Klemperer and Krips studio recordings.


I just want to second this.

I thought the Furtwangler Berlin DG was definitive.

I was wrong.

Knappertsbush's ability to weave the movement into a monument whole from the ostensibly discrete sequence of melodies is amazing.


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## billeames

I would say, as I usually do, several are best. If one, Krips or Boult. If several, Krips, Boult, Levine DG, Giulini DG. Giulini available as an import, Levine seems out of print, maybe available used.


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## Haydn man

I have Solti's version and tho enjoyable, not sure I could recommend it, my problem is Solti does not seem a natural Schubertian


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## joen_cph

Have acquired the Harnoncourt set too since my last post & can recommend it heartily. A great, somewhat Brucknerian 9th, with a bit of wild brass. Slightly-slightly less coordinated at times, but this only adds to the "romantic", grand effect in this case.


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## Itullian

I kinda like Muti's too.
I love the way he slows down that final cadence of the last movement.
Awesome.


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## johntpt

Also Giulini with the Bavarian Radio Symphony.


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## Bas

This one is pretty good.


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## Guest

I have three versions:
Wand/Berlin
Szell/Cleveland
Munch/Boston

I enjoy them all, but the Munch gets the most listens from me. Highly recommended!


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## realdealblues

After much listening since I first commented on this thread...

If you don't care about the repeats then Munch/Boston is my 1st Choice.

If you want all the repeats then Muti/Vienna is my 1st Choice.


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## scratchgolf

My favorite version would be Bohm/Berlin but I also own the Muti/Vienna with repeats. What a wonderful thing to already love a symphony and wish there were more to it, only to play the repeats and get exactly what you wished for. Does anyone have other recommendations with repeats? Did Bohm ever do a recording?


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## Lord Lance

realdealblues said:


> Bernstein's sony recording for me too. I also like Karajan's recording from 1968. Both wonderful.


Not Furtwangler or Solti? Any specific reason? Or is it the Bernsteinan passion?


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## Lord Lance

realdealblues said:


> After much listening since I first commented on this thread...
> 
> If you don't care about the repeats then Munch/Boston is my 1st Choice.
> 
> If you want all the repeats then Muti/Vienna is my 1st Choice.


Is this the Vienna one?


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## Vaneyes

Dresden/Tate (EMI), VPO/Muti (EMI, Brilliant Classics).


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## DiesIraeCX

I would like to recommend my personal favorite, Josef Krips with the London Symphony Orchestra. It's among the very best, give it a listen!


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## Lord Lance

DiesIraeVIX said:


> I would like to recommend my personal favorite, Josef Krips with the London Symphony Orchestra. It's among the very best, give it a listen!


How about Bruno Walter's CBS recording?


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## Holden4th

Resurrecting this thread after six years

Top pick for me is Sinopoli. I heard it by accident after getting his recording of the 'Unfinished. The 9th was the filler and I was sold on it immediately.

My other choice is Abaddo's with the COE.


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## Allegro Con Brio

The Krips/London is really special. But if you prioritize excitement and energy, go for Szell and Munch!


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## Heck148

Both Szells are really good - Cleveland - '57/CBS/Sony; and 1970 - EMI
but -
My long time favorite is Toscanini/NBC - really muscular, gutsy Schubert - lots of drive, accents, energy...but I recently picked up a new release of Reiner/Chicago '57 - this is a restored broadcast performance, there are a couple of small dropouts, but they are inconsequential...this is a GREAT Schubert 9!! like Toscanini, Reiner provides plenty of drive, and forward momentum...the all-important accents are driven home with a purpose, and the repetitive string figures never drag or become monotonous [violinists hate this piece!! ] Both conductors call for plenty of brass, and their bands deliver full tilt...
These two - Toscanini and Reiner top the list for me - nothing like it....it's like a different work from what you hear from the slow-poke, pedestrian stodgy treatment that so frequently befalls this fine work...ie - Sawallisch/VPO - gawd, dreadful, slow, pedestrian, simply soporific....I don't know how the VPO musicians stayed awake thru it...


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## jegreenwood

The first version I ever heard was Toscanini/Philadelphia, and that’s how I felt it should be played. I never picked that up on CD, although I do have the Toscanini/NBC. However, my current favorite is Munch. It was Szell before I heard that. 

I got the Krips in one of the Decca boxes. Not bad, I’ll stay with Munch.


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## Ulfilas

tgtr0660 said:


> Mackerras' on Telarc is one of the best.
> 
> Bruggen's recording with the Orchestra of the 18th Century is vastly underrated.


Agree with both! Brüggen is really wonderful.


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## Geoff48

Sir John Barbirolli gives a romantic interpretation in which he makes you believe that he really is in love with the music. And on the Barbirolli Society double cd it comes with 6 Suppe overtures originally issued on Pye and a Vienna concert originally on Studio 2 Stereo, EMI’s answer to Decca’s Phase 4 though nothing like as exaggerated. Of course there is one snag, the Halle is not a world class orchestra though rarely less than good. But Barbirolli is always interesting. Maybe a good second recording but one you may well find addictive


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## Ned Low

Too many recordings of this work. All amazing in their own way.I have Wand, Bernstein, Böhm, Jochum, Abbado, Harnoncourt( 7th). (However, it's not my favourite Schubert symphony. )


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## Brahmsianhorn

I surveyed the 9th this summer. My list of essential recordings:

*Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (1953) (Tahra, Audite) *

Furtwängler is uniquely powerful, intelligently developing each section with his special insight. As ever with this conductor the music is never stale, sounding as if it is being composed on the spot. The live 1953 does not boast as good sound as the studio 1951 (though still very full and present) but displays a slightly more nuanced interpretation.

*Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (1951) (DG, Naxos, Praga, Music & Arts) *

The 1951 DG studio recording sounds excellent and could well be for many the version to live with, among the most generally recommendable of all Furtwängler recordings.

*Josef Krips/London SO (1958) (Decca) *

For a great stereo version Krips fits the bill, offering plenty of sonorous opulence and grandeur in a beautiful sounding recording.

*Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (1942) (Tahra, Berlin PO, DG, Melodiya, Archipel) *

Many prefer Furtwängler's 1942 version above all, undoubtably his most urgent and intense, perhaps even a bit too much so for this symphony.

*Willem Mengelberg/Concertgebouw Orch. (1942) (Tahra, Philips, Biddulph, Andromeda) *

Mengelberg provides an authoritative reading from a skilled master with the Concertgeouw in virtuosic form.

*George Szell/Cleveland SO (1957) (Sony) *

Szell is less weighty but wonderfully energetic, an approach some may find preferable.

*Arturo Toscanini/Philadelphia Orch. (1941) (RCA, Guild, IDIS) *

Toscanini is likewise characteristically taut, powerful, and disciplined but also with a fair amount of nuance.

*Sir Georg Solti/Vienna PO (1981) (Decca) *

Solti is beautifully detailed and engaging in a more elegant intepretation.

*Günter Wand/NDR SO (1991) (RCA) *

Wand is unforced, richly detailed, and powerfully inspired in the outer movements.

*Charles Munch/Boston SO (1958) (RCA) *

Munch has the benefit of excellent sound in a generalized but strongly committed, energetic reading.

Further listening:

Bruno Walter/New York PO (1946) (Sony)

Eugen Jochum/Berlin RSO (1986) (Tahra)

Arturo Toscanini/NBC SO (1953) (RCA)

Carlos Païta/Royal PO (1987) (Lodia)

George Szell/Cleveland SO (1970) (EMI)

Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia Orch. (1960) (EMI)

Sir John Barbirolli/Hallé Orch. (1966) (EMI)

Bruno Walter/London SO (1938) (Dutton, Arlecchino)

Eugen Jochum/Bavarian RSO (1957) (DG)

Claudio Abbado/Chamber Orch. Of Europe (1987) (DG)


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## DarkAngel

Many of my favs already mentioned (furtwangler, krips, szell, munch) but I want to mention a "hidden" live Bohm Schubert 9th (79 Dresden) performance on this 2CD set (much better than BPO studio DG set) also has one of the very best Bruckner 8ths (74 Koln) I have heard, both live and great sound, other fillers not important but these two not to be missed!


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## Simplicissimus

My first and still favorite is Munch/Boston. Two others that I added to my collection which have not been mentioned in this thread are Skrowaczewski/Minnesota (1961, Mercury Living Presence) and Sawallisch/Staatskapelle Dresden (1967, Decca). I find these two very good and worthwhile, and because I like this symphony I listen from time to time to all three of recordings I have in my collection. I just haven't heard a performance that I like better than Munch.


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## Knorf

I think my favorite is also always going to be Munch/Boston.

For a newer one, Harnoncourt/Berlin is terrific.


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## Brahmsian Colors

My favorite is the late 1950s Szell/Cleveland Orchestra performance, originally on Epic stereo lp, currently on Sony cd.


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## shadowdancer

I think Trout's fine work can be used as a reference here:
https://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/trout/2030-rr-52-schubert-symphony.html


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## flamencosketches

Thoughts on Maag/Philharmonia Hungarica? I saw it in a Goodwill the other day but did not buy it.


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## Animal the Drummer

Lord Lance said:


> How about Bruno Walter's CBS recording?


This is the one I'd recommend too. The piece isn't on my favourites list but Walter and the Columbia Symph.Orch.are the best advocates for it that I've come across.


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## Ras

The only one I like is Solti with the Wienerphilharmoniker on Decca.


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## perempe

I've finished the 1st movement only, but know it's a gem.


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## bavlf

Like many other commentators


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## jegreenwood

perempe said:


> I've finished the 1st movement only, but know it's a gem.


Symphony No. 8? Are we renumbering Schubert's symphonies again? Or is this the standard in Germany?


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## joen_cph

flamencosketches said:


> Thoughts on Maag/Philharmonia Hungarica? I saw it in a Goodwill the other day but did not buy it.


I've owned the Maag set on LP but didn't find it that interesting or convincing. Others might disagree. 
'
Current favourites are Mengelberg, Furtwängler, Abendroth, Harnoncourt, d'Avalos.

Heard some of Muti and Goodman and liked it as well.


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## wkasimer

I stumbled upon a Supraphon CD version of Konwitschny's recording with the Czech PO, which has become one of my favorites. Worth hearing if you can find it:


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## perempe

jegreenwood said:


> Symphony No. 8? Are we renumbering Schubert's symphonies again? Or is this the standard in Germany?


Yes, this is the 8th in Germany.


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## happyclassicalfeet

No love for Gardiner?


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## CnC Bartok

jegreenwood said:


> Symphony No. 8? Are we renumbering Schubert's symphonies again? Or is this the standard in Germany?


Yes. The Neue Schubert-Ausgabe has renumbered so the elusive Seventh is no more. Perfectly sensible on paper, but those of us used to the traditional numbering won't like it. The Manacorda/Potsdam set I bought recently (it's excellent, btw!) uses the new numbering for the last two works, but I have changed all the data when I ripped them to keep with pointless tradition.

Sorry to be the bringer of irritating tidings...


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## amfortas

CnC Bartok said:


> Yes. The Neue Schubert-Ausgabe has renumbered so the elusive Seventh is no more. Perfectly sensible on paper, but those of us used to the traditional numbering won't like it. The Manacorda/Potsdam set I bought recently (it's excellent, btw!) uses the new numbering for the last two works, but I have changed all the data when I ripped them to keep with pointless tradition.
> 
> Sorry to be the bringer of irritating tidings...


It's all fun and games, until somebody actually finds Schubert's lost 7th symphony. *Then* they won't be laughing so hard!


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## Itullian




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## Kreisler jr

amfortas said:


> It's all fun and games, until somebody actually finds Schubert's lost 7th symphony. *Then* they won't be laughing so hard!


This would be the third candidate for a "Schubert 7th" to appear. There was a fake I don't know anything about and there is a reconstructed E major symphony D 729 that was apparently completely sketched by Schubert, completed by Newbould and has been recorded. The consensus now seems to be that the ominous Gasteiner Sinfonie was in fact identical to the Great C major, so there is nothing missing.
And we even have orchestrations of the Grand Duo but that never became popular for some reason, despite this being a mature Schubert work that works reasonably well in the orchestral version.


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## jegreenwood

Itullian said:


>


A fine recording and one of the group of five (three classical, two popular) that made up my first CD purchases.


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## happyclassicalfeet

After having carefully surveyed many recordings of this work, here is my assessment of things:

I avoid the following:
Bernstein with the Concertgebouw (a little to fleet, light and pacy)
Mehta with the Israel Philharmonic (slightly rough around the edges)
Karajan with Berlin (you know, Karajan)
Abbado with the Orchestra Mozart (fidgety)

I dislike the following:
Rattle with Berlin (absolutely disgusting)
here's my most controversial opinion: Munch with Boston (as much as I love Maestro Munch and the amazing Boston string and brass sound, he muddles too many details here for the energy he wants to summon. He gives the piece a fiery character which the piece does not demand)

These are the ones I like:
Wand with NDR (warm, beautiful, classic Wand)
Furtwangler with Berlin (clean and with poise)
Krips with the London Symphony (warm, not necessarily grand and lacks the pomp that some others create)
Muti with Vienna (underrated and quite beautiful)
Levine with Vienna (for the repeats)
Gardiner with Vienna (precise and beautiful Vienna playing)
Sawallisch with Vienna (very nice, not sappy)
Solti with Vienna (again, maximises on the warmth at the cost of some pomp, but beautiful playing)

And these are my top three:
3. Szell with Cleveland (absolutely clean, warm, appropriate pomp and grandeur, loud brass)
2. Klemperer with the Philharmonia (amazing, unhurried tempi with great attention to detail, beautiful string and wind balance, not sappy, an unparalleled grandeur)
1. Bohm live with Dresden (raw, grand, loud and breathtakingly exciting through and through: listen to the first theme of the second movement, it is absolutely crazy)


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## DarkAngel

*With many strong contenders I will elevate these to top three for me.....*

Furtwangler is the master of structure and tempo of the work, only held back by early 1950s mono sound, a benchmark to compare all contenders....

Solti WP on revisiting is even stronger then I remembered, this has it all - demonstration class sound, beautiful WP brass and string tone with elegance and rythmic drive wonderfully applied, this is surely one of Solti's greatest recordings!

Szell has less sheer beauty but is alive with detail and captures your attention from start to finish, never a dull moment and has stood up well against all contenders....



> And these are my top three:
> 3. Szell with Cleveland (absolutely clean, warm, appropriate pomp and grandeur, loud brass)
> 2. Klemperer with the Philharmonia (amazing, unhurried tempi with great attention to detail, beautiful string and wind balance, not sappy, an unparalleled grandeur)
> *1. Bohm live with Dresden *(raw, grand, loud and breathtakingly exciting through and through: listen to the first theme of the second movement, it is absolutely crazy)


A great way to get the excellent live Dresden Schubert 9th with Bohm I mentioned earlier here, this two CD set that also has an amazing live Bruckner 8th that I rank in top three of all versions available.....


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## CnC Bartok

wkasimer said:


> I stumbled upon a Supraphon CD version of Konwitschny's recording with the Czech PO, which has become one of my favorites. Worth hearing if you can find it:
> 
> View attachment 149484


Bill, it's available as a download here:
https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1488-schubert-symfonie-c-9

And it is indeed well worth hearing!


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## DarkAngel

There are a few recordings using smaller "chamber orchestra" groups like the SCO above that are refreshing change of pace and reveal a lot of fine inner detail of the score, I find these most effective for the early Schubert symphonies but the increase scale and dimension of the ninth take advantage of larger full size orchestra making smaller groups sound lightweight by comparison.....



> Bill, it's available as a download here:
> https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1...t-symfonie-c-9
> 
> And it is indeed well worth hearing!


I also checked out Konwitschy version on Tidal streaming recently, very nice along the same style as Szell, do also check out recent 10CD boxset from Leipzig which does have full Beethoven and Schumann sets.....


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## JTS

I have the following:

Mackerras has a version on HIP with every repeat.

Karajan’s EMI version - better than his DG

Solti very fine

Boult both live and studio - the old boy was quite a conductor on the quiet!

Abbado for chamber orchestra


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## Kreisler jr

I think the last time I checked, the Munch/Boston was my favorite among stereo recordings. 

The 1944? live Furtwängler (also on DG) is IMO far superior to the rather staid 1951 studio effort. The Szell 1958? (the Sony studio) has, I think, a very "unorganic" relation and transition between the (too) slow introduction and (rather too) fast main section of the first movement. I plan to listen to the dozen or so I have in the next weeks but I will probably not get through (I find the piece too long at times).


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## Ned Low




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