# What is your least favorite opera?



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Mine:






For me, a yawner of a plot and musical themes.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Luckily, I know only good ones, but I only know a dozen, at best


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Luckily, I know only good ones, but I only know a dozen, at best


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*I hate Joe Green*

Yeah. Another thread for the Verdi hater to make of fool of himself.

Every opera by Verdi except _Falstaff_.

"My God why must I die so young?" Violetta. _La traviata_.

"My children. I'm dying. My children. I'm dying." Gustavo, King of Sweden. _Un ballo in maschera._


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I concur with la Gazza Ladra.

Not keen on Intermezzo.

Wouldn't mind if I never heard Tannhäuser again.

I always think I am going to enjoy La Serva Padrona and then it's over and I'm still waiting for the cool bits.


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

There are certainly plenty of candidates, but of the operas I've seen in performance:
Wouldn't pay to see another Traviata, Götterdämmerung, Salome or Nabucco


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

In the repertoire or in general?

The music is fine, but I find the plot of _Turandot_ grotesque and despicable. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of operas with disturbing content, but that's the only one I know of where a serial killer gets a happy ending - _and_ we're supposed to be happy about it!

In terms of music, I found _Einstein On The Beach_ impossible to sit through.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The only operas I've heard are the ones I bought on disc and although I have quibbles with a few of them that's more to do with me rather than the opinion of the public at large - I can honestly say I don't dislike any of them to the point where I'd never listen to them again. As I always buy without listening first I've been lucky with my opera purchases, I suppose - no duds yet.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Fagotterdammerung said:


> In the repertoire or in general?
> 
> The music is fine, but I find the plot of _Turandot_ grotesque and despicable. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of operas with disturbing content, but that's the only one I know of where a serial killer gets a happy ending - _and_ we're supposed to be happy about it!
> 
> In terms of music, I found _Einstein On The Beach_ impossible to sit through.


Interesting. I never though of the Princess as a serial killer. _Turandot_ used to be one of favorites. Thanks


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Merry Widow
Die Fledermaus


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I could probably do without Cavalli's _La Calisto_ again.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The only opera I've seen which I emphatically hope I never have to sit through again is Schnittke's *Life with an Idiot*.

I also hated Harrison Birtwistle's *Punch and Judy* when I saw that on TV - well half of it. I didn't manage to get to the end.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

GregMitchell said:


> The only opera I've seen which I emphatically hope I never have to sit through again is Schnittke's *Life with an Idiot*.
> 
> I also hated Harrison Birtwistle's *Punch and Judy* when I saw that on TV - well half of it. I didn't manage to get to the end.


Heh heh...I like the second one and I'm waiting to get my hands on the first. You're in good company with Punch & Judy - at the premiere Britten and Pears both left before the end. :lol:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Boheme, Carmen, Troyens, Onegin, Otello


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Itullian said:


> Boheme, Carmen, Troyens, Onegin, Traviata, Otello




xxxxxxxxxxxx


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Most of what is being written today I would think. But as I never listen to it I wouldn't really know.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Faust and The Poisoned Kiss. I saw these live and disliked them. I have since listened to recordings of both and my opinion has not improved.

A (dis)honorable mention goes to The Enchanted Island. I watched the first act in the courtyard of the Met during one of their HD Summer Festivals and could not bear to stay for more.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Negativity thread #22,395

All the operas of Wagner.
All the operas of Puccini.

There, that was tremendously informative.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)




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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Any opera that isn't superbly sung and/or staged. I would rather listen to 4'33" (see how nicely I'm tying this in to TC's sujet-du-jour?) than to 4 hours and 33 minutes of my favorite opera composer, Wagner, sung and staged the way he usually is nowadays.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Tristan und Isolde

*ducking*


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


>


Well, that's one way to let out that creative surge when composing a work by computer - I wonder what it will sound like?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> Well, that's one way to let out that creative surge when composing a work by computer - I wonder what it will sound like?


Spontaneous--he's playing by ear.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

The Ring, Ring, Ring, Ring...I only enjoy the overtures...But the story, it's a big no, thanks. Still, the door is not completely shut.


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## Clayton (Nov 10, 2013)

MAuer said:


> I could probably do without Cavalli's _La Calisto_ again.












clayton cry a little...

oh well

good that CO and MAuer tried something fun


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## Clayton (Nov 10, 2013)

I can not say Walton's Troilus and Cressida was a _complete_ failure for me

only because I switched off after act one and have not listened to the opera in its entirety

I shall go back to it one day

just not any day soon

too many other operas to visit in the meantime


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

sabrina said:


> The Ring, Ring, Ring, Ring...I only enjoy the overtures...But the story, it's a big no, thanks. Still, the door is not completely shut.


Er... the _Ring_ has no overtures, as such, only short orchestral preludes. Mind you, they're pretty good in and of themselves.

That (pedantic!) point aside, I don't really have a least favourite opera, although I could live without most of Verdi. It's bad productions that are the problem for me; but even those aren't without their positive qualities. For example, the second act of _Die Walküre_ in Frank Castorf's current Bayreuth staging was sheer agony from start to finish, but the first and third acts were superb. Similarly, the ENO/Alden production of Britten's _Midsummer Night's Dream_ sagged dreadfully in the middle, but the overall concept was brilliant. The most consistently dreary production I've seen in recent years has to have been Stephen Langridge's _Parsifal_ at Covent Garden - a major disappointment, despite fine singing by (most of) the principals, and Pappano's beautiful rendition of the score.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Sonata said:


> Tristan und Isolde
> 
> *ducking*


Thank you! Me too. Anything with an overloud orchestra and no 'tunes' turns me off. 'Tristan' is the loudest and most cacophonous example of the genre that I've ever heard (only bits of it though) and although it has an interesting sound, I couldn't hack more than a couple of minutes of it at this stage of my life, which is a pity considering how much pleasure others somehow derive from it.

Janacek's 'Jenufa': a nausea-inducing plot and nothing to redeem it musically (and yes, I obviously mean from a 'man in the street' perspective and not from an academic musicologist's standpoint.) I don't know why I put myself through an entire performance of that and didn't leave after it became apparent that the baby wasn't going to be discovered alive and well, to be celebrated with some rousing and catchy tunes. Yes, I know I sound like a complete philistine, but the unrelenting grimness of plot and musical setting was too much for me.

The _bore_baric and _meh_levolent 'Fidelio': I would share what I didn't like about that but I couldn't stay awake long enough to find out. And I did really try.

Anything sprechgesang-ish: I sat through an act of a Britten opera broadcast by the BBC once. I think it was the one about sailors: a bunch of guys standing around shouting at each other. No thanks.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Figleaf said:


> I sat through an act of a Britten opera broadcast by the BBC once. I think it was the one about sailors


Billy Budd, or _HMS Pinafore_ (to which Ernest Newman unfavourably compared it!).


> a bunch of guys standing around shouting at each other


...I might take that to mean _Otello_, if it weren't for your explicit reference to Britten


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> Thank you! Me too. Anything with an overloud orchestra and no 'tunes' turns me off. 'Tristan' is the loudest and most cacophonous example of the genre that I've ever heard (only bits of it though) and although it has an interesting sound, I couldn't hack more than a couple of minutes of it at this stage of my life, which is a pity considering how much pleasure others somehow derive from it.


I think by hearing only a couple minutes of it, you have missed the tunes. They may be not as rousing as Verdi's, but they are there.

My least favorite opera out of those I have heard so far, is Handel's "Arminio". Yes, I know about Baroque operatic conventions, but it is just too cringe-worthy to hear the legendary Germanic warrior sing in an alto voice. I wish Wagner had done this opera instead of Handel, in his time it would have been more popular too.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I think by hearing only a couple minutes of it, you have missed the tunes. They may be not as rousing as Verdi's, but they are there.
> 
> My least favorite opera out of those I have heard so far, is Handel's "Arminio". Yes, I know about Baroque operatic conventions, but it is just too cringe-worthy to hear the legendary Germanic warrior sing in an alto voice. I wish Wagner had done this opera instead of Handel, in his time it would have been more popular too.


My problem is that I'm a sensualist and a slave to instant gratification. If my initial reaction is 'aargh, what ungodly racket is this?!' it's very hard not to just hit the off button. I may improve as a listener, but there is also the problem of finding adequate recordings, and Wagner attracts bad singing like Velcro attracts fluff. There are some bits of Tristan on Marston's Francisco Viñas set, which I may start with. He is my favourite Wagnerian (but recorded little, like most singers of those early generations) and I prefer him in the more melodious bits of Wagner like Lohengrin and Tannhäuser than in the Tristan excerpts. Then on the other hand, you are probably right: it may not be an opera that lends itself to being swallowed in bite sized, contextless chunks- and I would be totally (and pleasantly) amazed if a good complete recording exists.

The problem of bad or at any rate unidiomatic performances is even greater in Händel than in Wagner, but since his music is more superficially ingratiating than that of Tristan, many listeners don't seem to mind. The idea of countertenors singing the roles of great warriors disturbs me slightly as well. Castrati may seem to us to be incongruous as those hyper-masculine characters too, but I think their greater power and purity of voice would have carried the day, plus their musical training and immersion in the music of their day would have enabled them to sing more creatively and thus interestingly and affectingly than is possible for a hooty countertenor in a bland _come scritto_ modern performance.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I was going to say the usual "I wouldn't know probably some 19th century snore that hasn't been recorded anyway. But then I remembered Barber's _A Hand of Bridge_. It's only about 10 minutes long but it is one of the most toe-curlingly awful bits of the classical repertoire I know. Trite whining by obnoxious chattering-class caricatures, like an Ikea catalogue set to music. His opera _Vanessa_ is pretty good though.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

quack said:


> I was going to say the usual "I wouldn't know probably some 19th century snore that hasn't been recorded anyway. But then I remembered Barber's _A Hand of Bridge_. It's only about 10 minutes long but it is one of the most toe-curlingly awful bits of the classical repertoire I know. Trite whining by obnoxious chattering-class caricatures, like an Ikea catalogue set to music. His opera _Vanessa_ is pretty good though.


I quite like it but I find David's daydreaming a bit suss - '20 naked girls...20 naked boys...'


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2015)

Of the ones I have actually listened to and given a chance (more than one complete listen), the one I like least is Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Bores me to tears. I'm ready to off the two lovers myself after a while just to get them to shut up about the damn Liebestod.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> My problem is that I'm a sensualist and a slave to instant gratification. If my initial reaction is 'aargh, what ungodly racket is this?!' it's very hard not to just hit the off button. I may improve as a listener, but there is also the problem of finding adequate recordings, and Wagner attracts bad singing like Velcro attracts fluff. There are some bits of Tristan on Marston's Francisco Viñas set, which I may start with. He is my favourite Wagnerian (but recorded little, like most singers of those early generations) and I prefer him in the more melodious bits of Wagner like Lohengrin and Tannhäuser than in the Tristan excerpts. Then on the other hand, you are probably right: it may not be an opera that lends itself to being swallowed in bite sized, contextless chunks- and I would be totally (and pleasantly) amazed if a good complete recording exists.


I have not heard every recording of Tristan out there, but the one I like best is the one with Waltraud Meier and Siegfried Jerusalem in the title roles and Berliner Philarmoniker/Daniel Barenboim playing:









Just muster your patience and hear it to the end (I think it can be found on YouTube too). Then see if you like it better now.

Wait... I think you've said before you only listen to Wagner in French?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I have not heard every recording of Tristan out there, but the one I like best is the one with Waltraud Meier and Siegfried Jerusalem in the title roles and Berliner Philarmoniker/Daniel Barenboim playing:
> 
> View attachment 63324
> 
> ...


The first time I listened to Tristan it came over as cacophony to me as well.

I listened and watched about 10 times after that, and it certainly improved, but still I could not see the fuss.'

I went to a live concert performance last year. Hooked now. Hopelessly hooked.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DrMike said:


> Of the ones I have actually listened to and given a chance (more than one complete listen), the one I like least is Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Bores me to tears. I'm ready to off the two lovers myself after a while just to get them to shut up about the damn Liebestod.


I "like" this post not because I agree about _Tristan_ but because I'm doubled over with laughter. Thanks, DrMike!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> My problem is that I'm a sensualist and a slave to instant gratification. If my initial reaction is 'aargh, what ungodly racket is this?!' it's very hard not to just hit the off button. I may improve as a listener, but there is also the problem of finding adequate recordings, and Wagner attracts bad singing like Velcro attracts fluff. There are some bits of Tristan on Marston's Francisco Viñas set, which I may start with. He is my favourite Wagnerian (but recorded little, like most singers of those early generations) and I prefer him in the more melodious bits of Wagner like Lohengrin and Tannhäuser than in the Tristan excerpts. Then on the other hand, you are probably right: it may not be an opera that lends itself to being swallowed in bite sized, contextless chunks- and I would be totally (and pleasantly) amazed if a good complete recording exists.


There is no uniformly satisfying recording of _Tristan_, from the standpoint of singing as such, which I know is where your chief interest lies. There are a number of dramatically effective ones. I love to put on the 1927 recording of the love duet with Frida Leider and Lauritz Melchior as a reminder that Wagner hoped for, and has occasionally received, beautiful singing of his impossible music.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Hard to answer this question. Whatever my least favorite opera may be, I'm pretty sure I haven't given it much of a chance.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I "like" this post not because I agree about _Tristan_ but because I'm doubled over with laughter. Thanks, DrMike!


Glad I can help bring some joy!

The story, to me, is hardly engaging. I'm supposed to care about how much these two love each other when it is all artificial anyways? She only loves him because she drank a love potion. Sorry - I don't get that much worked up over chemically induced romance.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2015)

Oh, and I have the Barenboim recording as well. And it isn't an aversion to Wagner. I actually own quite a bit of his repertoire (The Ring, Tannhauser, Parsifal - my second least favorite opera of those I have given a chance to -, Meistersinger, Lohengrin).


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

DrMike said:


> Glad I can help bring some joy!
> 
> The story, to me, is hardly engaging. I'm supposed to care about how much these two love each other when it is all artificial anyways? She only loves him because she drank a love potion. Sorry - I don't get that much worked up over chemically induced romance.


Ah, but is it real or a placebo?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DrMike said:


> Glad I can help bring some joy!
> 
> The story, to me, is hardly engaging. I'm supposed to care about how much these two love each other when it is all artificial anyways? She only loves him because she drank a love potion. Sorry - I don't get that much worked up over chemically induced romance.


I think you may be trying to make me laugh again, but in case you aren't, Itullian makes the needed point when he asks: "Ah, but is it real or a placebo?" Tristan and Isolde are already desperately in love before they share that cocktail, as Isolde make very clear to Brangaene and the orchestra makes very clear to us. I won't go into the backstory which Isolde relates, but their immediate situation is that Tristan is obligated to his uncle King Marke to fetch Isolde to be the old king's wife, Isolde is furious, they are trapped in an impossible situation, Isolde decides to kill herself by drinking poison and invites Tristan to join her, he consents, they drink - and it becomes apparent that the bartender has mixed the wrong cocktail. Whatever is actually in it, they find themselves very undead and staring into one another's eyes, having just confessed that they wish to die together. Well, what can a nice young couple do but stop the games and admit the truth? So, for the next approximately two and one half hours, they admit the truth (let me count the ways), and finally succeed in dying together, more or less.

There. Isn't that a more engaging story?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Itullian said:


> Ah, but is it real or a placebo?


Indeed. For my money, Tristan and Isolde were already in love* - the drink merely served to release them from their inhibitions. Seen in that light, it mattered little whether the cup contained poison, placebo or a passion-pill... and a "love-death" was inevitable.

* (I note, from a separate post, that Woodduck entertains the same thought - bravo!)


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> Well, that's one way to let out that creative surge when composing a work by computer - I wonder what it will sound like?


Better than 4'33"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Florestan said:


> Better than 4'33"


Not necessarily. Sometimes the sound of silence is preferable


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I have the Furtwangler Tristan which is supposedly highly regarded, but did nothing for me. It sounded very dramatic but not very musical. I may consider giving the opera another go with Bohm...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Sonata said:


> I have the Furtwangler Tristan which is supposedly highly regarded, but did nothing for me. It sounded very dramatic but not very musical. I may consider giving the opera another go with Bohm...


I find your reaction surprising. Can you say what you mean by "musical"? In my experience no conductor finds the "music" - the essentially melodic quality, the deep, brooding, mysterious inner emotion as opposed to the superficial frenzy - of the score better than Furtwangler. The Bohm reading has more of that wild, passionate frenzy, which you may prefer (I like both). I'll be interested to hear how you perceive it.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Sonata said:


> I have the Furtwangler Tristan which is supposedly highly regarded, but did nothing for me. It sounded very dramatic but not very musical. I may consider giving the opera another go with Bohm...


The Furtwangler's just inexpressibly _gorgeous_ to my ears and sensibility- and get's a far-and-beyond 'First.'

The 1952 Karajan/Bayreuth is the most _dramatically-exciting_ and _incandescently-sung performance_ I've ever come across; and for 'high-drama' and 'passion' its my clear First Choice winner- but not overall; since it doesn't have the poised, mellifluous beauty of the Furtwangler.

Bohm gets a staunch and honorable 'Third' for my tastes and inclinations. The drama's at a consistently-high level and Birgit Nilsson and Christa Ludwig are fantastic.

I love them all and I refuse to choose only 'one'- regardless of how I aesthetically weigh and assay them.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

DrMike said:


> Of the ones I have actually listened to and given a chance (more than one complete listen), the one I like least is Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. Bores me to tears. I'm ready to off the two lovers myself after a while just to get them to shut up about the damn Liebestod.


Have you ever been in love, where you and she were separated from each other for a long time and missed each other badly? I think if you were, you would understand that extatic torrent of words in Act II much better


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> I find your reaction surprising. Can you say what you mean by "musical"? In my experience no conductor finds the "music" - the essentially melodic quality, the deep, brooding, mysterious inner emotion as opposed to the superficial frenzy - of the score better than Furtwangler. The Bohm reading has more of that wild, passionate frenzy, which you may prefer (I like both). I'll be interested to hear how you perceive it.


I don't know if I can explain it clearly as I'm no music expert and it's been a couple years since I last tried listening to the recording. The sampling from Bohm I listened to just sounded more melodic to me.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Puccini is my least favorite opera composer; does that count?

:toimonster:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

DrMike said:


> it isn't an aversion to Wagner. I actually own quite a bit of his repertoire (The Ring, Tannhauser, Parsifal - my second least favorite opera of those I have given a chance to -, Meistersinger, Lohengrin).


I see your problem, Dr Mike - you seem to have an aversion to static action and long, drawn-out melodies. What I find therapeutic under such circumstances is to listen to Feldman's _Triadic Memories_, after which the Liebestod and Good Friday Music will sound like _A Short Ride in a Fast Machine_


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

The opera that has earned my dislike at the moment is Kafka's Trial by Poul Ruders. Perhaps I'll see the genius of it later on, but I can't get past how awkward it sounds. I'm a fan of modem opera, but This one failed to grab me. The music sounds like Greg Ginn guitar solos transposed for orchestra, the "comedy" falls flat, and whatever story is being told is upstaged by music that is as difficult to play as to enjoy.

I am open to returning to the work at a later date reconsider my opinion.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

Have seen two productions of Bizet's "The Pearl Fishers" over the years and each time came to the conclusion they should just play the duet at the beginning then let everyone go home early.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

_Amahl and the Night Visitors_


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Trovatore

Actually most middle Verdi

Hmm, all Verdi except Falstaff


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Ukko said:


> Puccini is my least favorite opera composer; does that count?
> 
> :toimonster:


If you qualify that as least favourite MAJOR opera composer, I'd agree.

However my wife keeps buying tickets and in the Opera house I have that guilty feeling; that actually I'm enjoying this.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

I like them all!

maybe I don't like recitativo parts in earlier operas. ok, Mozart's Don Giovanni & Le nozze di Figaro are great operas, but I hate those parts.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Anything after R. Strauss


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

The opera I've liked the less, by a fair margin, is one by an Spanish composer, Pilar Jurado, under the title of "La página en blanco", premiered a few years ago in Madrid.

But talking about the established repertoire, I'd say "Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg". Of course, this has nothing to do with the quality of this opera, just with my personal response to it.


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