# What's your twenty percent?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The 80/20 rule (aka Pareto principle) suggests that 20% of the music you know of, own, or listen to provides 80% of your listening pleasure. So my question(s):

Is this true in your case? If so, what's in that 20%?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Definitely lower than 20% though that's probably because I also listen to plenty of popular music, and as so many more write that the average quality is probably much lower than classical.


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## julianoq (Jan 29, 2013)

Sibelius Symphonies (Neeme Jarvi/GSO on BIS)
Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (Brendel's second cycle)
Beethoven's Late String Quartets (Quartetto Italiano)
Mahler's Symphonies/Das Lied von der Erde (Boulez with various orchestras)
Beethoven's Symphonies (Paavo Jarvi/Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie)

Not exactly 80% of what I listen, but I think a solid 25% is there!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm interested in discovering music I'm not familiar with at this stage of the game, so playing the old chestnuts is rare for me.
Perhaps 2%? That would be Brahms chamber music, Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, Handel's Giulio Cesare, etc;


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I'm interested in discovering music I'm not familiar with at this stage of the game, so playing the old chestnuts is rare for me.
> Perhaps 2%? That would be Brahms chamber music, Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, Handel's Giulio Cesare, etc;


I am like 'hpowders'. I am more interested in soaking in new stuff. I may only spend 2% of my time listening to old stand byes.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Since I've been listening to the Handel, 3 CD's, it's been skewed up to 2.36%


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I'm interested in discovering music I'm not familiar with at this stage of the game, so playing the old chestnuts is rare for me.
> Perhaps 2%? That would be Brahms chamber music, Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, Handel's Giulio Cesare, etc;


where is Beethoven and Pettersson?

gone with the wind?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> where is Beethoven and Pettersson?
> 
> gone with the wind?


Pettersson falls under the category of new music I've been discovering. It is not included under the "old chestnuts" category, the so-called old reliable "20%".

Beethoven I haven't been listening to recently. I've been more into contemporary music:William Schuman, Vincent Persichetti and Peter Mennin, (yes, a little Pettersson) are taking up most of my listening time at this particular moment.

There's too much music out there that I'm not familiar with. Persichetti's 12 piano sonatas have taken up a lot of my last 3 weeks. Rewarding time spent.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Pettersson falls under the category of new music I've been discovering. It is not included under the "old chestnuts" category.
> Beethoven I haven't been listening to recently. I'm into contemporary music now:William Schuman, Vincent Persichetti and Peter Mennin, (a little Pettersson) are taking up most of my listening time: about
> 100 - 2.36 = 97.64%.
> 
> I've given up being a Renaissance Man.


your tone does not allow me to proceed to further comments 

my apologies


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

hpowders said:


> ....I'm into contemporary music now:William Schuman, Vincent Persichetti and Peter Mennin, (a little Pettersson) are taking up most of my listening time: about
> 100 - 2.36 = 97.64%.
> 
> ...


I must definitely listen to something by Vincent Persichetti! 
Very honestly, I have never heard of him until I started hanging out at this forum and hpowders' posts .
The problem is that Persichetti's name remind me of a pizzaiolo (pizza maker) more than a composer...

Sorry hpowders about that!


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2014)

Ken, where do you find these things?

Anyway, I'll play, but of course only on my terms. You wouldn't expect any less from me, I'm sure.

What I find, in practice, is that 100% of whatever I am listening to provides 100% of whatever pleasure I am getting out of the experience.

That's the Karman principle of practical experience.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

As some guy's post reminds us, the OP asked not about how you divide your listening time, but about the music that brings most pleasure. If there's a difference, of course!


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2014)

It does? Wooden have reminded me of that, but "OK."

The music I'm listening to is the music that is bringing me pleasure was my point. 100/100.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, your post reminded me of the original question, because that's what you addressed. Thanks!


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## Mister Man (Feb 3, 2014)

I don't own or listen to any "filler".


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

So it's the millionth recommendations thread but under a different guise?

I like exploring new stuff a lot, so I don't fit into your average person according to the stats.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I don't think The Pareto principle applies to me either.
I tend to listen to and enjoy most what I feel engaging time by time. 
For example, now I am re-discovering the whole set of Bach's cantatas, a listening I haven't been considering for the last 10-15 years or so. Before that my full attention has been for all Debussy piano works.
After that, who knows?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

GioCar said:


> I must definitely listen to something by Vincent Persichetti!
> Very honestly, I have never heard of him until I started hanging out at this forum and hpowders' posts .
> The problem is that Persichetti's name remind me of a pizzaiolo (pizza maker) more than a composer...
> 
> Sorry hpowders about that!


Nothing to be sorry about. As for the Persichetti family....


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> your tone does not allow me to proceed to further comments
> 
> my apologies


Okay. No worries!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

GioCar said:


> I must definitely listen to something by Vincent Persichetti!
> Very honestly, I have never heard of him until I started hanging out at this forum and hpowders' posts .
> The problem is that Persichetti's name remind me of a pizzaiolo (pizza maker) more than a composer...
> 
> Sorry hpowders about that!


I have been studying his 12 piano sonatas over the last 3 weeks to the exclusion of a lot of other things.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

some guy said:


> Ken, where do you find these things?


I was asking the same question. 

Reminds me of the Berraism: "Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical."


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

KenOC said:


> The 80/20 rule (aka Pareto principle) suggests that 20% of the music you know of, own, or listen to provides 80% of your listening pleasure. So my question(s):
> 
> Is this true in your case? If so, what's in that 20%?


Now _that's_ a creative application of Pareto's concept! 

Anything by:

Schumann
Cherubini
Beethoven
Haydn
Victoria
Hummel
Liszt


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Just by a quick and dirty estimate of the enjoyment factor I would say half of my collection is above average.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Weston said:


> Just by a quick and dirty estimate of the enjoyment factor I would say half of my collection is above average.


You're a lucky fellow! I'd say that almost half of my collection is sub-average. A sign of the times perhaps?


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

This reminds me - I saw it recently pointed out that the vast majority of people have an above average number of arms!


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## Matsps (Jan 13, 2014)

Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Alkan, Liszt, Above and Beyond, Airbase, Armin Van Buuren, Andy Blueman, Simon O'Shine, Shpongle, Astral Projection, Hallucinogen. 

Not quite 80/20, but probably those above 12 are probably 40 - 50% of my listening and the rest is spread among several hundred composers. They are not all strictly classical composers, but Blueman, O'Shine and at times, Above and Beyond, all have a very classical style. For me, these guys always are putting real quality and emotion into their work and it really shows when you listen to their pieces/tracks.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I'd have to say Wagner, Mozart, Schubert, R Strauss, Brahms, Messiaen, Bruckner


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Something close to the 20/80 adage may have applied early on, when I was buying and learning lots. 

As likes and dislikes sorted (culling would playing an important role), the collection started to take a smaller shape, and today is a most manageable amount of highly enjoyable and preferential listening from about 130 composers. :tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Even though I'm into modern stuff now more than I've ever been, even if I wasn't, I don't have any particular few favorite composers. I love Beethoven, but I love a lot of composers equally well. I'm just as likely to reach for Ive's Concord Sonata as Beethoven's Pastoral symphony. Keeps things interesting!!

So!!! No 20%-80% rule for me. I would die of boredom.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I think the stat is based upon a particular aspect which accompanies another particular dynamic having to do with purchase habits / patterns. 

I don't fit the model. I'm a mean and parsimonious consumer, and currently own hardly any recordings. I am more than just a little selective with very few recordings I do buy.

I think if you think of a more usual 'collection' with one or two box-sets, purchased on recommend of a review, or because they looked seriously inexpensive, and other multiples recordings of the same rep, they your proposed stat probably comes very near to close on that sort of ownership -- which is the great norm.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> I think the stat is based upon a particular aspect which accompanies another particular dynamic having to do with purchase habits / patterns.


Actually not. "Pareto developed the principle by observing that 20% of the pea pods in his garden contained 80% of the peas."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Actually not. "Pareto developed the principle by observing that 20% of the pea pods in his garden contained 80% of the peas."


LOL. I could see where that is analogous to tons of consumer goods and their marketing / packaging, including a music collection as I described. You would think with a titch more discernment in making the purchases, that percent would not be the same for most people's music collections.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Actually not. "Pareto developed the principle by observing that 20% of the pea pods in his garden contained 80% of the peas."


Revealing my ignorance once again, may I ask who Pareto is/was? Thanks.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I consciously use the 80/20 principle to distribute my listening. I do it "fractally" as well, so that within the 20 I distribute my listening by the same ratio and so on.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

science said:


> I consciously use the 80/20 principle to distribute my listening. I do it "fractally" as well, so that within the 20 I distribute my listening by the same ratio and so on.


Perhaps you should consider the Fibonacci sequence, or the golden mean? Or maybe the Axis principle? I can see a lot of benefit here! :tiphat: Where's yoPj when we need him???


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Strings, generally, provide me with 80% of my listening pleasure.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I don't know about the 80/20 theory. I don't think I fit into it very well. Yes I have my favorite composers and return to them with some frequency. I especially love Sibelius, Nielsen, Beethoven. I would say that I spend more time exploring lesser known composers and works and so I would estimate that 80% of my listening is exploration and only 20% returning to the familiar/favorites. 

Kevin


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

samurai said:


> Revealing my ignorance once again, may I ask who Pareto is/was? Thanks.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilfredo_Pareto


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

KenOC said:


> Perhaps you should consider the Fibonacci sequence, or the golden mean? Or maybe the Axis principle? I can see a lot of benefit here! :tiphat: Where's yoPj when we need him???


I don't see the utility in that. 80/20(80/20[80/20...]) works well for me.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

The Pareto Principle does not hold in my case. I spent considerable time and money expanding my classical collection in the past 24 months. Classical Music now accounts for about two thirds of my collection, but it accounts for well over four fifths of my listening.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Looks like quite a few of us don't subscribe. An unprincipled principle.
Needs a fudge factor.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I think I'm Mr. 10%, using the 20% principle as a rule. I have many discs, few are chosen. I can press play without thought for several consecutive months. I go through phases of experiencing other/new music, and thoroughly enjoy this, but I always have an itch at the back of the brain that needs scratching and the scratcher of that itch makes up most of my listening...


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*What the?????*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilfredo_Pareto

What the....???? 

Ladies and gentlemen. It seems that we can use Einsteins's E=MC² to measure the amount of electrical impulses employed by a hangnail when listening to Beethoven as opposed to Berg in a DDD recording as opposed to a SACD recording. 

Of course on any given Sunday such results can by muted by the alignment of the protons in the digital imprints of a CD.

Help!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilfredo_Pareto
> 
> What the....????
> 
> ...


I must protest on your changing the subject to a completely different theory.
Surely this new one deserves a thread of its own.
The Lang Lang thread hasn't received much play (no pun intended) lately. So there happens to be room for another meaningful thread.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I probably listen to 50 Classical Composers very frequently with the others only once in a while. I explore new composers quite frequently and I've probably heard around 500 composers in my lifetime, but how many I buy CD's of and listen to frequently is obviously much less. I still really enjoy comparing recordings of my favorite works, but I also like expanding.

Right now I'm spending more time with Prokofiev. I've heard all his Symphonies (7, although 2 versions of symphony 4 so we'll count 8), Piano Concertos (5) , Piano Sonatas (9), some Ballet/Orchestral Suites (we'll say 4) and Overture On Hebrew Themes (1). So, I've heard 27 works out of 138 or something Opus numbers. My new goal is to expand on things like this and discover more works from artists I've listened to in the past, but not really "explored".


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm aware of the 80/20 rule and conscious that the concept applies to the recipes that I chose to cook or the clothes I choose to wear (in both cases, I probably use 20% of them 80% of the time) and so I have deliberately decided to avoid this with my CDs.

Thus I have a notebook in which I list my CDs as I buy them and give them a very simple (and entirely unobjective and thoroughly arbritary) grading and I mark them as i listen to them using a simple symbol for each year so I can see how many times I've listened to the CD and which year.

As I result, about 95% of my 2500 CDs give me 95% of my listening pleasure - the others are listened to once in a while just to check that I haven't changed my mind.

I recognise that this twists the OP a bit, but .... that is what I do!


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