# Schnittke Thread



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm not sure if there is a thread dedicated to this composer. I have just been
getting into his work for the first time. There is a three part documentary about him from the
BBC on youtube now. I tend to like a lot of what I hear but at times it's
a little too dissonant. 

Favorite work thus far is: 
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso No. 2 / Kagan, Gutman


----------



## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

I enjoy quite a few of his orchestral works. I think my favorite work of his is a chamber work, though--his piano quintet.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's the thread you may want, at least to read:

http://www.talkclassical.com/2565-alfred-schnittke.html


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I highly recommend his Viola Concerto.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^^
OP should find everything he/she needs to know about Schnittke at that other thread. It's 12 pages long with lots of embedded YouTube links, and CD suggestions. I recommend the Apex CD with the piano concertos for starters.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I highly recommend his Viola Concerto.


It's on the recording with the concerto grosso no. 2 mentioned by regenmusic. It's a very rare CD on the Moscow Studio Archives label. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=89771 And there's probably another version on Chandos.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have to admit, I am weak on Schnittke. Don't know why. Never got around to him for some reason.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

A tough nut to crack.

Though I'm not suggesting that Schnittke is a "nut". By no means. Rather, he proves a quite thoughtful composer. But his music often takes some getting used to. And then there's that First Symphony.

I have quite a few Schnittke discs in my collection including all ten symphonies (including the great box set from BIS), the Choir Concerto and Requiem, concertos including for Viola, Cello (Nos. 1 and 2), and a selection of chamber works including works for Cello und Klavier (including Cello sonatas 1 & 2), a Piano Trio, a Piano Quintet, and the "Three Sacred Hymns" (which is offered on a Chandos disc also featuring the Symphony No. 4).

I will admit to having spent a week mining through the BIS symphony box.









It took me a couple of attempts before I was able to make it through the First Symphony in a single sitting, and when I finally did I was left dazed and confused, as well as emotionally exhausted and, oddly enough, uplifted. There is nothing quite like this piece in my listening experience, which I consider quite incorporative. And even the other nine symphonies, often bizarre though they may be, fall short of the carnival potpourri that is the First.

Schnittke never fails to surprise.

(By the way -- I remember once describing the Schnittke First Symphony in this way: "It's a work in which the composer seems at every bar to do something in sound to make you turn off the music and get about to doing other things. He frustrates, annoys, bores, hammers at your ears and sensibilities ... and does just about every imaginable -- and _unimaginable_ -- thing to turn the listener away. But those who stay to the end find a mystical reward, though I don't quite yet know what it is.")

You may not like this stuff (I'm about half way sold), but you gotta admit: the guy's genius is out there, and we're fortunate to have music like this.

What else can I say? Listen to some Schnittke. If you're brave, take on the First Symphony. Otherwise, starting nearly anywhere else will be just as good an introduction to the music as you'll find.

Now I'm eager to listen to some Schnittke.


----------



## Guest (Nov 12, 2014)

Oh boy. 

I recently opted to try to listen to everything I have in a more disciplined manner (very gradually, of course). Although I've listened to a lot of it, I found it more helpful to simply focus on a big cycle or a big composer with no deviations until everything was done. I had a LOT of Schnittke, so a couple of weeks ago I listened to about 95% Schnittke for probably an entire week.

Really strong composer if you ask me. Some notes:

- Very few noticeable points of relative weakness. If I had to point out a weak spot, I would say symphonies 6, 7, and 9, and maybe a bit of the material for violin/piano and violin/orchestra (since he has a lot of that, a few of the works failed to set themselves apart from the pack)

- Very string-focused composer. Tones of works focusing on string orchestra, violins, cellos, with a good bit of "stringy" stuff like harpsichords thrown in. This can work wonders, but I must say a week of modern music oriented primarily towards strings was a bit grating towards the end. My case being a bit abnormal, you should ignore this "complaint" 

- Tom Service's bit on the 1st Symphony is really neat. 

- Seems to enjoy orchestrating chamber works quite a bit. Suite In The Old Style, Violin Sonatas 1 & 2, String Trio, Piano Quintet...all orchestrated.

Favorite works:
Symphonies 1/2/5
Concerto Grosso 1
Choir Concerto
Requiem
Piano Quintet (also In Memoriam)
String Trio (also Trio Sonata)
Cello Sonata 1
String Quartet 2

that's 10 works...I'll stop there.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

The only work by Schnittke I have ever heard is the cadenzas he wrote for the Beethoven violin concerto. These I actually liked a lot, though they are completely and utterly out of place in the context of that particular work. Makes me think I should discover this composer a bit...


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

i only like his film music.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Schnittke has a lot of excellent works, his Concerti Grossi and Piano Quintet are certainly considered among his finest, my personal favorite is the dark, and haunting _Concerto for Piano and Strings_.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

sharik said:


> i only like his film music.


I was amazed how many films Schnittke wrote music for - over 70! On disc he seems a bit under-represented here compared to Shostakovich and Korngold. Do you like any of the films Schnittke wrote music for? Needless to say, they are all fairly unknown here.


----------



## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> Do you like any of the films Schnittke wrote music for?


for example i do like this one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agony_(film)


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks, I'll watch that.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I have a question about Schnittke. How often in his works, the majority of which are in his own interesting style, but which often have snippets of distorted and yet antiquated sounding tonality, is he quoting a composer from the classical or baroque era? I just wonder because I'll hear something I really like in it, and I wonder if the theme is Schnittke's or someone else. That was the case in Mo-zart a la Haydn more obviously, but for example in Concerto Grosso number 2, is that all Schnittke? 

I like the Concerti Grossi, because I feel they add a lot of solid rhythmic structure to his wild style. I wasn't as into his Symphonies. I liked the Piano Quintet too.


----------



## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

starthrower said:


> It's on the recording with the concerto grosso no. 2 mentioned by regenmusic. It's a very rare CD on the Moscow Studio Archives label. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=89771 And there's probably another version on Chandos.


I also hiiiiiiighly recommend Bashmet's performance with the Vienna Philharmonic led by Gergiev -- it's on DVD.






I love the the first cello concerto, fourth violin concerto, choir concerto, requiem, third and fourth symphony, quasi una sonata, first concerto grosso, piano quintet -- and his second string quartet... He has many, many great works.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

tdc said:


> Schnittke has a lot of excellent works, his Concerti Grossi and Piano Quintet are certainly considered among his finest, my personal favorite is the dark, and haunting _Concerto for Piano and Strings_.


I love this one too. I first heard it performed by players from the St. Petersburg Conservatory not long after the dissolution of the USSR. They visited the school where I was teaching in the U.S. The performance was amazing and that was what first put Schnittke on my radar. I also love some of the symphonies and concerti grossi. A true successor of Shostakovich and Myaskovsky.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> I have a question about Schnittke. How often in his works, the majority of which are in his own interesting style, but which often have snippets of distorted and yet antiquated sounding tonality, is he quoting a composer from the classical or baroque era?


I'm not sure about specific quotes from the classical and baroque, but some of the traditional bits in the Third Symphony are dead ringers for melodies by Myaskovsky, meaning that if I heard them out of context, I would be reasonably sure that was who composed them. I believe Mysaskovsky was his pedagogical grandfather (the teacher of his main composition teacher).


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> I have a question about Schnittke. How often in his works, the majority of which are in his own interesting style, but which often have snippets of distorted and yet antiquated sounding tonality, is he quoting a composer from the classical or baroque era? I just wonder because I'll hear something I really like in it, and I wonder if the theme is Schnittke's or someone else. That was the case in Mo-zart a la Haydn more obviously, but for example in Concerto Grosso number 2, is that all Schnittke?
> 
> I like the Concerti Grossi, because I feel they add a lot of solid rhythmic structure to his wild style. I wasn't as into his Symphonies. I liked the Piano Quintet too.


The Concerto Grosso #2 I know has quotes from Silent Night and Bach's Brandenberg Concerto (one of them, I forgot which). The Brandenberg Quotation comes in for the first time at the first instance of "Allegro" in the first movement. Most of the time with Schnittke, he quotes works but he distorts his quotes to such a degree that it might as well be his own work. In that way, to me it often sounds like the quote is less meant to be thought of as a direct quote as such, but as jumping off material or a way of alluding to different styles without copying them.


----------



## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

So I decided I wanted the complete set of his string quartets. In my naive ignorance I assumed there'd be quite a choice of recordings. It turns out there isn't??!! I read of some recommended (eg Borodin, Arditti, Berg) but they just don't seem available currently. So from a field of two, I've plumped for the Kronos. Really looking forward to getting to grips with them (listened on my new friend Spotify first)...


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm giving this ambitious ballet score a listen.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I see Schnittke as a sort of latter-day Shostakovich; nobody has mentioned that he is called a "polystylist" and that there are numerous example of seemingly disparate elements going on in his music, which might be one reason he's hard to pin-down and get into, except one-work-at-a-time. Then again, maybe I'm full of crap.

The only thing I have is the BIS symphonies box.


----------



## Guest (Nov 22, 2014)

I heard Gutman play his Cello Concerto No.1--it was overwhelmingly intense. She has an excellent live recording of it.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> I see Schnittke as a sort of latter-day Shostakovich; nobody has mentioned that he is called a "polystylist" and that there are numerous example of seemingly disparate elements going on in his music, which might be one reason he's hard to pin-down and get into, except one-work-at-a-time. Then again, maybe I'm full of crap.
> 
> The only thing I have is the BIS symphonies box.


He pulls off the the polystylistic thing incredibly well, imo. But I suppose it's not everyone's cuppa tea. And there's so much other great stuff in addition to the symphonies. I was just listening to his opera, Life With An Idiot, and his ballet Peer Gynt, and there's a lot of great music there. Also love his requiem, and piano concertos.


----------



## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> I see Schnittke as a sort of latter-day Shostakovich; nobody has mentioned that he is called a "polystylist" and that there are numerous example of seemingly disparate elements going on in his music, which might be one reason he's hard to pin-down and get into, except one-work-at-a-time. Then again, maybe I'm full of crap.
> 
> The only thing I have is the BIS symphonies box.


Nah, you're right on with the polystylistic mention. I don't know about the Shostakovich bit, though. Scnittke is a musical chameleon if I've ever heard one. It verges on the bizarre quite often, which is why I like his stuff so much.

Out of nowhere he'll put in some baroque style harpsichord and then later shift to some jazz. The hell you doing there Schnittke? I dig it.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Bearing in mind the polystylistic nature of his work, all these recommendations seem somewhat limited, and would not give anyone an overview of his work; if that were possible. Is there any way to get a grasp on him? Are there any instances of consistent style and identity, such as piano works or string quartets? Or am I just chasing butterflies? This is harder than getting into Mozart. I have the symphonies, and I still don't know what to make of him. He's like a "greased pig."


----------



## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)




----------



## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

For the record, I just wanted to point out that today would be Schnittke's 80th birthday.


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> Schnittke never fails to surprise.
> 
> (By the way -- I remember once describing the Schnittke First Symphony in this way: "It's a work in which the composer seems at every bar to do something in sound to make you turn off the music and get about to doing other things. He frustrates, annoys, bores, hammers at your ears and sensibilities ... and does just about every imaginable -- and _unimaginable_ -- thing to turn the listener away. But those who stay to the end find a mystical reward, though I don't quite yet know what it is.")


This writeup alone has made me want to listen to his 1st symphony. I'm currently 17 minutes into it so stop bothering me and let me focus.

Edit - And I just reached the Beethoven's 5th finale quote. I had to check to make sure I hadn't accidentally switched pieces.


----------



## Dom (Nov 26, 2013)

His choral music is gorgeous.


----------



## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I highly recommend his Viola Concerto.


I heard this one for the first time recently. The whole work is great...

But that second movement, is really kind of extraordinary. :tiphat:


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Dom said:


> His choral music is gorgeous.


Yes! Have you heard the choir concerto? It's heavenly!


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Skilmarilion said:


> I heard this one for the first time recently. The whole work is great...
> 
> But that second movement, is really kind of extraordinary. :tiphat:


Yes, that's my favourite movement too. I love the frantic opening in particular.


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Not what I expected at all, in a good way... I love his weird sense of the absurd and his contrasts between moods and styles, at least in what I've heard so far. In the Glass Harmonica he's not rejecting the past but playing off it, distorting and adding to it, and it can be a bit disquieting and unnerving like suddenly being thrust into a creepy insane asylum. Imaginatively done, perhaps with a sly smile on his face, and then he ends with a satisfying consonance like waking up from a bad dream, and all is well again... I sense a world of endless variety behind this and I look forward to hearing what's next. Bravo!


----------



## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

In the dark days of the 1980s, Schnittke seemed, to me at least, about as "heroic" a composer as might have been imagined. There was always a sense of struggle in his music, of his trying to make sense of his place in history, of his fractured Russian and German -- and Jewish and Orthodox and Catholic -- identities, but also of his dealing with living in a totalitarian regime, and what it might mean to resist it, whether covertly or openly. There were few composers active then who had both a sense of greatness about them, and who could appeal to a really broad spectrum of listeners: in the Soviet Union, indeed, his music was like catnip for classical music lovers. 

His music drew you in immediately, coaxing you with the promise of an enigma that might eventually be clarified, of a journey that might possibly haunt your soul, touching it in places both deep and familiar. There were no other composers alive at that time whose every new piece I so eagerly awaited word of... and that spate of pieces that pivoted around his initial stroke -- Viola Concerto, Cello Concerto, Fifth Symphony, Septet, Choir Concerto, String Trio, Faust Cantata, et al., constituted one of the most impressive collections of works produced in such quick, rapid-fire succession in the 20th century.


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Delicious and fun, perhaps with a touch of sarcasm - it's hard to say:






Among his lighter works, I find this delightful and ingenious:


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

My biggest wish with regards to Schnittke's output is that the Capriccio label will perhaps get around to recording another four discs of film music - the first series was choc-a-bloc with delights (and Capriccio were sensible enough to re-release the four discs as a box set) but there is so much other soundtrack material which remains unrecorded.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

PeterFromLA said:


> In the dark days of the 1980s, Schnittke seemed, to me at least, about as "heroic" a composer as might have been imagined. There was always a sense of struggle in his music, of his trying to make sense of his place in history, of his fractured Russian and German -- and Jewish and Orthodox and Catholic -- identities, but also of his dealing with living in a totalitarian regime, and what it might mean to resist it, whether covertly or openly. There were few composers active then who had both a sense of greatness about them, and who could appeal to a really broad spectrum of listeners: in the Soviet Union, indeed, his music was like catnip for classical music lovers.
> 
> His music drew you in immediately, coaxing you with the promise of an enigma that might eventually be clarified, of a journey that might possibly haunt your soul, touching it in places both deep and familiar. There were no other composers alive at that time whose every new piece I so eagerly awaited word of... and that spate of pieces that pivoted around his initial stroke -- Viola Concerto, Cello Concerto, Fifth Symphony, Septet, Choir Concerto, String Trio, Faust Cantata, et al., constituted one of the most impressive collections of works produced in such quick, rapid-fire succession in the 20th century.


Speechless. 
I mean you summed things up with a ,spectrum and elocution that brings Schnittke's genius into full eyes view.

I posted a comment on YT concerning the super genius and wonders of Schnittke's music,,,some guy commented,,,*Oh Schnittke, his ideas of combining styles, ideas from many eras, adding his own touch, so repetitive, so boring* (Paraphrase mine), Basically he wants to say Schnittke is a fraud, and his music worthless trash.

I would say , 20 yrs ago, I too may have held a similar opinion, in my neurotic approach to this world and music. 
Understanding music has to do with the mind of a person, his experiences. I have definitely developed my musical senses, quite a lot, from my earlier Rachmaninov/Sibelius pure tonal days.

Schnittke is like a explosive revelation of what music can be.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

elgars ghost said:


> My biggest wish with regards to Schnittke's output is that the Capriccio label will perhaps get around to recording another four discs of film music - the first series was choc-a-bloc with delights (and Capriccio were sensible enough to re-release the four discs as a box set) but there is so much other soundtrack material which remains unrecorded.


WOW, unreal, I had no idea Schnittke has even more gems in his film music.
I have that 4 cd set on pre order.
We eagerly await the complete recordings. 
Great they re-relased the others as a 4 cd set, as the singles would have made buying bit pricey.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

paulbest said:


> WOW, unreal, I had no idea Schnittke has even more gems in his film music.
> I have that 4 cd set on pre order.
> We eagerly await the complete recordings.
> Great they re-relased the others as a 4 cd set, as the singles would have made buying bit pricey.


I gather he wrote music for c. 70 films, so there is much to be unearthed.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

elgars ghost said:


> I gather he wrote music for c. 70 films, so there is much to be unearthed.


WOW, UNREAL

Someone, here on TC or at YT mentioned Schnittke's film music are MAJOR works, nothing lite, insignificant. That is , some composers write incidental short pieces for films, plays, whatever, And its nothing really major, Whereas with Schnittke, its solid substantial masterpieces.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

paulbest said:


> WOW, UNREAL
> 
> Someone, here on TC or at YT mentioned Schnittke's film music are MAJOR works, nothing lite, insignificant. That is , some composers write incidental short pieces for films, plays, whatever, And its nothing really major, Whereas with Schnittke, its solid substantial masterpieces.


Some years back I printed out a list of Schnittke's complete works for reference purposes (sadly the website I obtained it from is, I think, no longer active), and each item had an approximate timing at the side. It was evident from these timings that some of Schnittke's music for films, cartoons etc may not have been of much consequence, and it may well have been Shostakovich-style hack work, but by the law of averages there must be some soundtracks still worthy of rediscovery.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Yes, well in the 4 cd set, there must be something for everyone's delight,,,you know just playing the cd, each tract will be a quite different from the next, though short, 
takea Mahler sym, each movement has a similar thematic material, no real surprises, whereas schnittke at every turn, something new is about to explode on your ears.
take the Glass harmonica piece above.
It is so unreal, how Schnittke takes a lot from the great master , Varese and heightens all the elements. 
So I may have to readjust my idea that it was Elliott Carter who finished what Varese left *incomplete* ,,,to include Schnittke as the carrier of the Varesequeian style.

Varese was really a power house of new ideas, a tour de force. 
I first came to Varese, that opened the path to my accepting Elliott Carter's masterpieces. I needed a path to Elliott Carter. 
It was Schnittke's Sym 4/Concerto Grosso 5 (it is both a sym + a CG) which was my initial experience in Schnittke. 
Tulane Music Library, pre Katrina, had that cd. At that moment, I knew Schnittke was going to offer a powerful journey into *the new music*, but not so new as to leave the *old* behind, Which is what I feel, some post mod composers have fatefully done.


Frank Sinatra's song always comes to mind when I hear a post mod work, which I feel the composer * ...and I did it myyyyy wayyyyy…* as per old Frankie. 
Schnittke immersed himself in all the great master's works, allowed these masterpieces to plant seeds, and from that soil, he crafted his own masterpieces.

IOW he could see the Mt Everest peaks, but he knew to get there, one must follow the beaten paths to base camps along the way. 
, Near the peak's, he found new paths to the very summit.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I wonder where you all draw the line with Schnittke's music? The succession of strokes that afflicted him each left him somewhat less functional than he had been before. Some people consider his later works - like his 8th symphony - to be among his greatest. But others hear little in them. Do you recognise a point at which his ability to compose was too severely compromised?


----------



## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

Hey Paul Best, it's good to see you on line again... years have past since we last encountered each other in a music forum (the now defunct Amazon Classical Music Forum, to be exact). Always appreciated your advocacy on behalf of Schnittke, Carter, Pettersson, etc.


----------



## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> I wonder where you all draw the line with Schnittke's music? The succession of strokes that afflicted him each left him somewhat less functional than he had been before. Some people consider his later works - like his 8th symphony - to be among his greatest. But others hear little in them. Do you recognise a point at which his ability to compose was too severely compromised?


I don't see it with Schumann, and certainly not with Schnittke. The later symphonies are like variations on the theme of loneliness: desolate, sparse, with no "light at the end of the tunnel" ending so effectively employed in the _Piano Quintet_ and cello concertos. Few corpora of work can compare.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> I wonder where you all draw the line with Schnittke's music? The succession of strokes that afflicted him each left him somewhat less functional than he had been before. Some people consider his later works - like his 8th symphony - to be among his greatest. But others hear little in them. Do you recognise a point at which his ability to compose was too severely compromised?


Honestly,, at times, perhaps some of his works, are rather sparse, some fluff, filler, nothing really going on, *tricks* of sorts, But this in no way deters recognizing Schnittke's supreme master pieces.

Look, I posted a comment onYT, about Henze 8th sym,, where I stated Henze is right there with a few other mod masters , like Schnittke,,, ,,just got a comment from a guy who says Schnittke is rather repetitive , and so dull/boring after a while. He dismisses all of Schnittke as a waste of time. 
I just don't hear it,
His SQ's and VC's , I found iffy at times,,I am still on the fence about those,,,But has been yrs since I sold off both sets, I am willing to reconsider. 
I agree, his health issues late in life may have certainly affected his creativity output.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

8th sym, Sparce, thin at times, but still there are textures and the Schnittkeian spirit is still alive and well. Perhaps not his finest sym, yet superior to most post mod music, for sure.

I would accept the idea his health issues lingered on, hampering his creative time spent in scoring.
If we ad up all his supreme master works, this oeuvre outshines most of the greatest from this late mod era in music.
Major mod composer, which few if any in the post mod era, will attain to his status and achievements.


----------



## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

PeterFromLA said:


> Hey Paul Best, it's good to see you on line again... years have past since we last encountered each other in a music forum (the now defunct Amazon Classical Music Forum, to be exact). Always appreciated your advocacy on behalf of Schnittke, Carter, Pettersson, etc.


My latest and may I guess at, the finale, is,,,you 'll never guess, as you and others were trying desperately back at GMG, to have me open my deaf eras to this composer,,,, 
I simply refused,,well actually I bought 3 cds, ,,but could not *heads of tails * of what it was I was hearing. 
Now, ,,well, I can not say his name, here on Schnittke's page, others are sick N tired of my propagandizing for the *secret* composer,,,,,,hint,,initials are ,,HWH. 
You 'll never guess. 
UNREAL. I think I have 80%+ of the recordings now.


----------

