# Modal jazz.



## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

Am I the only person who has trouble appreciating it? I bought Coltrane's A Love Supreme to conduct an experiment: how long it will take me to like it (based on Jhar's experience).

So far it sounds chaotic - a compilation of random notes.

What is your experience with modal jazz (and avant-garde jazz, too)?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Love Supreme is one of more accessible albums from Coltrane. I remember that I didn't get it when heard for the first time but that was time when I was really unexperienced and came to Coltrane straight from Chralie Parker and expected his other albums to sound like Blue Train which I already iked from first listen. 

But Love Supreme is not difficult. Actually it can be considered a gateway to more ambitious jazz. For those that don't have much experience with such music it will take more than one listening to appreciate it, but it's worth of your time.


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

Spreading the approaches in time seems like a good idea, hm? Certainly, forcing myself isn't a good one. I will ease off for now, I guess, and let the album settle on the shelf.

Music is to be enjoyed. If I will never derive joy from such music, what's the point of torturing myself. The music I listen to doesn't define me - I define the music I listen to.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

KaerbEmEvig said:


> So far it sounds chaotic - a compilation of random notes.
> 
> What is your experience with modal jazz (and avant-garde jazz, too)?


Certainly not all of _Love Supreme_ can be said to sound like random notes -- it's one of Coltrane's most systematically planned out albums and much of it is constructed from very easily discernible repeated melodic material (some of it, of course, is in a more free-jazz style, which may be where your complaint stems from).

However, if I were starting with modal jazz, I'd listen to the more characteristic _Kind of Blue_ album, which basically defines the style (much more than the long forms, complex pentatonic harmony, and overall more involved and personal concept of _Love Supreme_). _Kind of Blue_, on the other hand, is about the most stereotypically "accessible" jazz albums I can think of. If you're not into that, it's a chance you won't like much modern jazz has to offer period.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

You're not the only one. I'm pretty much a jazz freak - I'll listen to anything, from Sidney Bechet to Albert Ayler. But since 1974, I've listened to Love Supreme just about once a year, hoping eventually it will do something for me. And while I have learned to _appreciate_ it, there's just something about it I don't _like_.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

I'll second Falstaft on Kind of Blue. That is just a great album. Also, Miles' early fusion period is built on modal and vamp heavy playing. In A Silent Way and Jack Johnson are good examples.

Check out guys like Yusef Lateef, Pharoah Sanders, Sun Ra, Rahsaan Roland Kirk and Don Cherry. A lot of modal jazz draws from musical cultures like India and China where harmony isn't really thought of in the same way as the West. The focus is on rhythm and melody and the static harmony of the mode/raag/thaat is just accepted.

If you think A Love Supreme sounds chaotic, have a listen to Ascension or Om. My Favourite Things is one of my favourite Coltrane albums (pun intended). It just seems to emit a nice warm glow like a sunset on every listen. Great use of a soprano sax in a non-smooth (Kenny G) way. The chordal piano work from McCoy Turner really makes it cook though.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Love Supreme is one of more accessible albums from Coltrane.


i don't think it's true, there are a lot of easier Coltrane albums. Of course, it is not as free as the Olatunji concert or Ascension but it has the same "fire music" approach. Tons of notes, not an example of music in which the form and the structure are the most important thing. Crescent, an album in a similar vein sounds a lot more "composed" and melodic (something like Naima on Giant steps).
Anyway, i think that an alternative to Coltrane is Wayne Shorter, who is a greater composer. Kind of blue is a good album and a very accessible one, but for more advanced stuff that is also well structured, the albums of the Miles Davis's second quintet (especially Miles Smiles and Nefertiti) and Juju and Speak no evil are great introductions to modal jazz. And i'd give a try also to the albums of George Russell, who was the mind that introduced the concept of modal jazz


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

Already have Kind of Blue.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

KaerbEmEvig said:


> Already have Kind of Blue.


And? Do you like it or not.

Try these:


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

Argus said:


> And? Do you like it or not.


Yeah.



> Try these:


Nope, yes, nope.

Maybe the problem is not with the modality, but with the free jazz elements. I have no idea.:trp:

I think I know what might be holding me back: free jazz drumming. It just doesn't feel right.


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