# What I think about when I see an opera (Pie chart)



## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

I was thinking a little bit about this lively discussion group (and other opera discussion groups I've participated in) last night as I enjoyed myself greatly watching Mozart's "Clemenza di Tito" at the Met. One thing I thought about is how different I feel from many other opera aficionados who seem to be very focused on one aspect of opera: the singing.

I also thought about a friend of mine who once said "Singing is the only thing that matters in opera." I told her I thought that was an absolutely crazy statement, and does not reflect at all how I feel about an opera.

Since I like doing data visualizations, I got inspired to create a pie chart showing what I am aware of when I sit at the Met and watch an opera. I'd love to hear from others here what your pie charts would look like! By the way it's very easy to create a pie chart online - just google "create pie chart online" haha. Or you could just answer this question in text. Anyway, here's what I'm aware of when I enjoy an opera. What about you?


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## JoeSaunders (Jan 29, 2015)

Interesting that you think about historical significance as much as you do. I tend to only think of that before and after the performance, as I'm trying to contextualise what I've seen, but never during the performance really. Fun thread idea.

I think my answer would massively vary between opera productions. Some operas I attend mainly because there's a star cast doing the rounds, and others because I haven't seen the work before. My pie charts would vary in each case. It's funny really, when I'm _really _immersed in watching a great opera it's hard to say what I'm aware of _at all_. It's like a sublime state of flow, where I'm just soaking it all in. Hell, I'm usually more conscious of specific elements when things are going wrong, like at a disastrous Regie. Here's a graph for that:










But yes I would be similarly perplexed by those who exclusively focus on the singing. I'd question why they're at the opera house at all and not just popping along to recitals. I understand giving _priority _to the music (as a whole), and that'd explain why so many daft librettos make their way into the repertory, but ignoring the drama and poetry of any opera, to me, means you lose out on what's so enjoyable and moving about the art-form.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm not sure what you mean by "aware of." My immediate inclination is to say that if I were to spend much time thinking about the composer or the historical significance of the work while either sitting in the theater or listening to a recording, I might be better off doing something else. An opera is drama and music, and in a good performance those elements ought to conjure up an imaginative world which suffices to absorb my mind and senses. I can think _about_ the opera in my free time.


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

JoeSaunders said:


> Hell, I'm usually more conscious of specific elements when things are going wrong, like at a disastrous Regie.


Love this graph! Thanks. I have to admit I have not heard the word "regie" before, but I just googled it and I get what you're saying. I guess to generalize your pie chart, it seems that you are saying that you are often very aware of the interpretive choices that the director is making. Wouldn't hurt for me to add a little of that to my pie chart as well.


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "aware of." My immediate inclination is to say that if I were to spend much time thinking about the composer or the historical significance of the work while either sitting in the theater or listening to a recording, I might be better off doing something else. An opera is drama and music, and in a good performance those elements ought to conjure up an imaginative world which suffices to absorb my mind and senses. I can think _about_ the opera in my free time.


Well, my background is history, literature, and politics. And there's usually an overwhelming amount of historical/literary stimuli flooding my brain as I sit there enjoying an opera, so it's not like I have a choice whether to focus on it or not. Here's an example - not involving me but a friend of mine who attended Clemenza di Tito with me last night. It was his first opera. As soon as it was over, I asked if he liked it. He said yeah, he loved it. Then he said "but what the hell, that sure is a whole lot of apologia for royalism two years after the French revolution". I guess you can tell why this guy is my friend.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

marceliotstein said:


> Well, my background is history, literature, and politics. And there's usually an overwhelming amount of historical/literary stimuli flooding my brain as I sit there enjoying an opera, so it's not like I have a choice whether to focus on it or not. Here's an example - not involving me but a friend of mine who attended Clemenza di Tito with me last night. It was his first opera. As soon as it was over, I asked if he liked it. He said yeah, he loved it. Then he said "but what the hell, that sure is a whole lot of apologia for royalism two years after the French revolution". I guess you can tell why this guy is my friend.


Our backgrounds and interests will certainly influence what we think about while listening. It's also going to depend on the opera in question. As a musician, visual artist, and former singer, I'm likely to be 95% focused on the aesthetic elements of the performance, but I can see how _Clemenza di Tito_ would stimulate different sorts of thoughts than would, say, _Salome._ Actually it might be quite interesting to know what people are thinking about during _Salome_...


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## Amara (Jan 12, 2012)

For me, a huge part of my enjoyment of watching opera is the acting. Many of today's opera stars are brilliant actors. I get more from their performances than most of today's film stars.


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

Amara said:


> For me, a huge part of my enjoyment of watching opera is the acting. Many of today's opera stars are brilliant actors. I get more from their performances than most of today's film stars.


Me too, for sure. I thought of having a separate item on my pie chart for "The Acting" but since the singers and the actors are the same people, figured that was covered by "The Singing". But yes, I also notice the acting, though I often find myself wishing for more of a method style and less formalism. I guess that's not how opera is supposed to be acted, though.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I think I would separate your categories into two broad types, one of which I would term "the work" and the other "the performance". I will be thinking more about the performance during the watching of an opera and more about the work before and after seeing it. I think my percentages would be as follows:

Singers 30%
Conductor/Musicians 20%
Sets and staging 15%
The Composer (or the music of that particular opera) 15%
The Story 15%
Historical Context 5%

N.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Our backgrounds and interests will certainly influence what we think about while listening. It's also going to depend on the opera in question. As a musician, visual artist, and former singer, I'm likely to be 95% focused on the aesthetic elements of the performance, but I can see how _Clemenza di Tito_ would stimulate different sorts of thoughts than would, say, _Salome._ Actually it might be quite interesting to know what people are thinking about during _Salome_...


Probably wondering if the Salome will be getting her kit off during the Dance of the Seven Veils!

Just lowered the tone didn't I?:lol:

Anyway, prima la musica, doppo le parole!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> Probably wondering if the Salome will be getting her kit off during the Dance of the Seven Veils!


With a Salome like Caballe, it's a real worry.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> With a Salome like Caballe, it's a real worry.


Shudder! But what a voice!


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> With a Salome like Caballe, it's a real worry.





Barbebleu said:


> Shudder! But what a voice!


She's surprisingly graceful and light on her feet...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Mollie John said:


> She's surprisingly graceful and light on her feet...


I apologise for my rather I'll-chosen comment. Of course, you're right.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

When I watch an opera my focus is on the singing, acting, scenery, and story. 

Occasionally my thoughts are distracted by the fact that I need to use the facilities, but I quickly put that out of mind and it is usually not a problem as I try not to drink much for several hours before an opera and I keep plenty of Altoid mints loose in my pocket to keep the mouth from going dry during the show.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Barbebleu said:


> I apologise for my rather I'll-chosen comment. Of course, you're right.


I wasn't chastising you - it's bad form and I would never think of doing so - I was expressing a sense of surprise that Caballe was indeed doing the dance as it was my understanding that it is often a stand-in who does the actual choreography -

"In addition to the vocal and physical demands, the role also calls for the agility and gracefulness of a prima ballerina when performing the opera's famous "Dance of the Seven Veils".

_Finding one individual with all of these qualities is extremely daunting. Due to the complexity of the role's demands, some of its performers have had a purely vocal focus by opting to leave the dancing to stand-ins who are professional dancers. 
_
_Others have opted to combine the two and perform the dance themselves, which is closer to Strauss's intentions._ In either case, at the end of the "Dance of the Seven Veils", some sopranos (or their stand-ins) wear a body stocking under the veils, while others (notably Malfitano, Mattila and Ewing) have appeared nude at the conclusion of the dance."

"Strauss's operatic adaptation of the play also features the Dance of the Seven Veils. The dance remains unnamed except in the acting notes, but Salome's sexual fascination with John seems to motivate the request-though Herod is portrayed as pleased.

The music for the dance comes from near the climax of the opera. The visual content of that scene (about seven minutes long with standard tempi) has varied greatly depending on the aesthetic notions of the stage director, choreographer, and soprano, and on the choreographic skills and body shape of that singer.

Strauss himself stipulated that the dance should be "thoroughly decent, as if it were being done on a prayer mat." Nevertheless, many productions made the dance explicitly erotic. In a 1907 production in New York the dancer "spared the audience nothing in active and suggestive detail", to such an extent that some ladies in the audience "covered their eyes with their programs."

Ernst Krause argues that Strauss's version of the dance "established the modern musical formula for the portrayal of ecstatic sensual desire and brought it to perfection." In Derek B Scott's view, "The eroticism of the 'Dance of the Seven Veils' is encoded in the sensual richness (timbral and textual) of a huge orchestra, the quasi-Oriental embellishment of melody (intimations of 'exotic' sensuality), and the devices of crescendo and quickening pace (suggestive of growing excitement)."


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## sharkeysnight (Oct 19, 2017)

JoeSaunders said:


> It's funny really, when I'm _really _immersed in watching a great opera it's hard to say what I'm aware of _at all_. It's like a sublime state of flow, where I'm just soaking it all in.


This state is the main reason I like just about any art form, where it's like the world has dropped away and it's just you and the piece moving outside of time.

Anyways, my opera pie would probably look something like:









I actually don't think much about the singers unless they're either really good or notably not good.


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

sharkeysnight said:


> Anyways, my opera pie would probably look something like:
> 
> View attachment 116291
> 
> ...


I love this pie chart! Thank you.

I'm also glad some people here are validating my original thought in creating this thread, which is that opera is *not* just about the singing - that there is much more going on.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pie charts for opera? Now I've seen everything! Novel at any rate. But what I look for when I SEE opera (as opposed to listen on audio, (and note I watch opera on HD in the cinema usually) is (in no particular order):

1. characters who approximate to what they should look like. If I get an elderly Manrico or bulging Salome it does beggar belief.

2. singers who can act reasonably

3. singers who can sing their parts well

4. a production that is innovative yet faithfully serves the composer

5. sets that are worth seeing and do not look as though they have been knocked together in the school carpentry shop the night before


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I don't know how to easily make pie charts since that part of Cheeseburger no longer works (any good alternatives?) but here's my usual thoughts when watching:

1. how high was the director

2. is this Jealous Tenor Whining really necessary

3. girl, why are you into that tenor, the baritone is so much hotter

4. I want to hug this character

5. I want to yeet this character into an active volcano

6. (beautiful, passionate tenor/baritone duet) NOW KISS

7. (two Mozart women [mezzos in pants included] interact) NOW KISS

8. MORE LIGHT, I CAN'T SEE

9. (baritone aria) *absolute bliss*

10. (the text is about hugging but they stand several meters apart) hug already, you cowards

11. (any would-be assassin approaches their victim stealthily):









12. (baritone or bass or mezzo is Illegally Hot):


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