# How Do You Rate Villazon



## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

(1) OPERA PLANET Anna Netrebko Rolando Villazón "O Soave Fanciulla" La Bohème Puccini 4K ULTRA HD - YouTube

I was wondering how others rate Rolando Villazon. He seems pretty spot on in this. I don't really know his work that much. 

Anna I have heard before and she has put in some incredibly good performances. On this I thought she came in a bit sharp...I might well be wrong but anyway she gets better as it goes on. 

Interested in people's comments.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Rolando Villazon came on like gangbusters but didn't use his voice carefully and destroyed it. He pushed it to the extent that he blew it out, had surgery, but never returned to his original self which showed promise.
His personality onstage was energetic, exciting and a fine committed actor as well. He is a sweet man who I have met and communicated with. These days he is now doing some Mozart and directing operas but he will never be the tenor he'd always hoped he'd be.
I miss the old him.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Rolando Villazon came on like gangbusters but didn't use his voice carefully and destroyed it. He pushed it to the extent that he blew it out, had surgery, but never returned to his original self which showed promise.
> His personality onstage was energetic, exciting and a fine committed actor as well. He is a sweet man who I have met and communicated with. These days he is now doing some Mozart and directing operas but he will never be the tenor he'd always hoped he'd be.
> I miss the old him.


Many modern singers have both constriction and pushing at the same time, trying force the voice unnaturally from opposite directions, and often ending up like that.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Glad you put this on because I don't really know either even though I've heard them. Having of course heard about his career falling apart I'm curious as to where this performance is chronologically relative to that event. Here, the first notes took me a moment to adjust to which usually means, for lack of a better phrase, a less than completely natural releasing of the voice. I adjusted quickly and by the time he reached " in te ravviso" he seemed to have switched to an entirely different, Domingo in the nose kind of production. This doesn't sound to me like a promising approach even though I thought he sounded good here. I'm going to find out more about his rather sad journey.

She did not sound very impressive. I think I've heard her sound better than this. Didn't catch my ear as being distinctive at all.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I give him a little more credit than the majority of modern tenors who sound like scared middle schoolers trying to sing a church hymn, but at the end of the day, good intentions with bad technique tend not to end well.


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## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> Rolando Villazon came on like gangbusters but didn't use his voice carefully and destroyed it. He pushed it to the extent that he blew it out, had surgery, but never returned to his original self which showed promise.
> His personality onstage was energetic, exciting and a fine committed actor as well. He is a sweet man who I have met and communicated with. These days he is now doing some Mozart and directing operas but he will never be the tenor he'd always hoped he'd be.
> I miss the old him.


Thanks - very interesting and poignant comments. Underlines how careful a singer has to be with their "instrument". 

Your mention of his acting ability reminded me of long deceased Geraint Evans I recall him as a fine actor in opera - the eyebrows probably help as with Villazon! He gave a master class on TV once and I can still recall how he demonstrated a scene from La Boheme to indicate how cold it was in their residence. 

Geraint Evans opera singer - Search (bing.com)


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## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Many modern singers have both constriction and pushing at the same time, trying force the voice unnaturally from opposite directions, and often ending up like that.


Interesting comment. I think I can hear what you mean in that recording.


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## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

ScottK said:


> Glad you put this on because I don't really know either even though I've heard them. Having of course heard about his career falling apart I'm curious as to where this performance is chronologically relative to that event. Here, the first notes took me a moment to adjust to which usually means, for lack of a better phrase, a less than completely natural releasing of the voice. I adjusted quickly and by the time he reached " in te ravviso" he seemed to have switched to an entirely different, Domingo in the nose kind of production. This doesn't sound to me like a promising approach even though I thought he sounded good here. I'm going to find out more about his rather sad journey.
> 
> She did not sound very impressive. I think I've heard her sound better than this. Didn't catch my ear as being distinctive at all.


Yes I thought I heard a bit of Domingo in his voice. But I read Domingo preserved his voice in marvellous condition over 5 decades. He credits emulation of Caruso.


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## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I give him a little more credit than the majority of modern tenors who sound like scared middle schoolers trying to sing a church hymn, but at the end of the day, good intentions with bad technique tend not to end well.


I think I understand your point. It might be that, these days, opera singers are "taught to death" from a young age. I did find Villazon's performance so much more characterful and exciting than the tamer tenors!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Very astute of you to recognize the "Domingo" in his voice. I believe Domingo was the one who discovered and made him the winner in his (Zarzuela??) contest years ago.
The day all hell broke loose was in the Lucia wedding scene where he choked on the high note, stopped dead, and then proceeded to try it again. It was a sobering and painful moment to listen to. Netrebko was the Lucia.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Owen David said:


> Yes I thought I heard a bit of Domingo in his voice. But I read Domingo preserved his voice in marvellous condition over 5 decades. He credits emulation of Caruso.


Your observation makes me think of Paul Franz observation over on a different thread that very few of us could listen to a voice going full steam in its prime and accurately predict whether it will last long or not. It is mysterious! Domingo is a freak. I never thought his voice production sounded masterful. He exhibited far too little dynamic control after his early years and always seemed to me to pretty much center the sound “in the mask” as many say, and support and let it rip. And yet, vocally at least, he’s still going


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I take it that early is best. If I were to put him in a contest, what dates would i be looking for. Does anyone know his "hot" period?


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Villazon had something going on for a bit, there. The voice had some character and heft, and unlike Kaufmann, it wasn't immediately off-putting and uncomfortable to listen to. That said, he clearly imitated Domingo but had half the natural voice Placido did. I know people online like to say Domingo was small, but I don't believe that. Villazon had a smaller voice and the modern tendency to be headier and then just force volume through that headier blend, so his high notes, even in his prime, had problems. They often had either a pre-wobble or that kind of beat/inverted vibrato that presages danger to come. Placido has always had a tendency to strain his high notes, but when he was a legit stage tenor, they NEVER had that modern unfocused wobble thing going on. He just sounded like he was going to rip in half and die, but obviously that's sustainable lol. And when the notes were on, they rang and were powerful.

As for Anna, I'm not sure I've ever been pleased with anything she's ever sung.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Well expressed on Villazon.
As for Netrbko, I am one of the few that has always found her voice exciting and beautiful. Now it is changing and is getting richer and deeper. I believe that a lot of brickbats thrown against her are as a result of her personality which, to some, is unacceptable and too outspoken.
I personally like her honesty and earthy quality. Some cannot handle it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Who is Villazón?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I take it that early is best. If I were to put him in a contest, what dates would i be looking for. Does anyone know his "hot" period?


To me his best stuff is in the 70’s but I don’t know his recordings that well. His early romantic Arias recital on RCA has a wonderful assortment of pieces… Lots of famous pieces but avoiding too much use of the overplayed chestnuts. And he’s still trying to bring variety and dynamic control there in a way that he seems to have given up on later on. The tomb scene you used was his good stuff. The one rendition he does kill it on is his live Ingemisco with Bernstein


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I take it that early is best. If I were to put him in a contest, what dates would i be looking for. Does anyone know his "hot" period?


If you are speaking of Villazon, I would think circa 2003+ would be best.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I love him! He was a most sincere artist and though he gave too much, he believed everything he sang, so I believed. Too bad he had vocal cord troubles.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> To me his best stuff is in the 70’s but I don’t know his recordings that well. His early romantic Arias recital on RCA has a wonderful assortment of pieces… Lots of famous pieces but avoiding too much use of the overplayed chestnuts. And he’s still trying to bring variety and dynamic control there in a way that he seems to have given up on later on. The tomb scene you used was his good stuff. The one rendition he does kill it on is his live Ingemisco with Bernstein


Domingo, you mean, not Villazon?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ewilkros said:


> Domingo, you mean, not Villazon?


Yeah😉🤓....guess I omitted that!


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Well expressed on Villazon.
> As for Netrbko, I am one of the few that has always found her voice exciting and beautiful. Now it is changing and is getting richer and deeper. I believe that a lot of brickbats thrown against her are as a result of her personality which, to some, is unacceptable and too outspoken.
> I personally like her honesty and earthy quality. Some cannot handle it.


Hot take. I admire your willingness to share such an unpopular opinion (granted, I think there is a good reason it's unpopular, but all the same, I respect people who are willing to voice unpopular opinions).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> If you are speaking of Villazon, I would think circa 2003+ would be best.


I saw him twice around this time, once in Don Carlo and once in Contes D’Hoffmann - both excellent. And I had a CD from this period too, with Tancredi (Monteverdi.) Then I lost interest in going to the opera so I didn’t follow. At the time I used to say things like “great singer, Villazon”


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

I saw Villazon sing Loge in the Berliner Staatsoper's Ring in October. The Staatsoper's Ring was a study in Regietheater and featured a highly eccentric Loge - complete with a wig and hair falling in Villazon's eyes, such that he one of his mannerisms was to contiuously have to move the hair out of his eyes.

I thought Villazon's acting was compelling and he sang the role well - I'm not a student of music and unable to cite specific strengths and weaknesses, but I've seen 5 Rings and this production had the strongest cast I've seen and heard. Granted, the Staatsoper's opera house is much smaller than the Met or the Kennedy Center - or Chicago or Dallas, so none of the singers had to struggle to project into the reaches of those cavernous auditoriums.

I raise this because Villazon was singled out during curtain calls and loudly booed - which I failed to understand and found appalling. I'm not sure if it was because of his eccentric characterization or a perception of bad or mediocre singing. In any case, I was thrilled by the overall performance and not distracted by the production.

I will say that I loved Thomas Guggeis' conducting and found it far more to my liking than Barenboim's interpretation - though I'm sorry he is too ill to conduct and wish him a swift recovery.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Hoffmann said:


> I'm not a student of music ...... but I've seen 5 Rings


Meaning only respect, I must say that this is one of the greatest quotes I've ever seen on here!!!

Hoffman, I have to ask..............what are you like when you ARE a student of something??


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I've seen three Rings (Also tree Tristans, Parsifals and Lohengrins, the third was literally yesterday). 
I'm not a student of music.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ColdGenius said:


> I've seen three Rings (Also tree Tristans, Parsifals and Lohengrins, the third was literally yesterday).
> I'm not a student of music.


So in my book, you and Hoffman may not be musicians or ever have studied music in a classroom or conservatory, but with resume's like that, you passed the line and inherited the title of "De Facto Student" Loooooooong ago   !!

PS...say something about yesterdays Lohengrin!


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Meaning only respect, I must say that this is one of the greatest quotes I've ever seen on here!!!
> 
> Hoffman, I have to ask..............what are you like when you ARE a student of something??


Oh dear. What I meant is I don't know enough to evaluate the specific elements of singing - legato, for example, or missed or skipped notes and specifically how one singer compares to another. My preference is for live opera over recordings, so have a fair number of performances I've seen in the U.S. and Europe over the years. I saw my first opera (Tales of Hoffmann!) at the Komische Oper Berlin in 1972 (how did 50 years fly by so quickly?).

I don't listen to historic recordings (at least outside of the remastered Callas catalog), so no knowledge of singers who were active earlier than the 1950s (I get too distracted by the sound quality in most cases). 

I have, however, met or seen most of the best known singers from the 1970s - on; I used to super for the Met when it toured to the Kennedy Center in the early 1980s - and also supered with the Vienna State Opera when it toured to the Kennedy Center in 1979 (they picked me from a cattle call because I fit the costumes).


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Hoffmann said:


> Oh dear. What I meant is I don't know enough to evaluate the specific elements of singing - legato, for example, or missed or skipped notes and specifically how one singer compares to another. My preference is for live opera over recordings, so have a fair number of performances I've seen in the U.S. and Europe over the years. I saw my first opera (Tales of Hoffmann!) at the Komische Oper Berlin in 1972 (how did 50 years fly by so quickly?).
> 
> I don't listen to historic recordings (at least outside of the remastered Callas catalog), so no knowledge of singers who were active earlier than the 1950s (I get too distracted by the sound quality in most cases).
> 
> I have, however, met or seen most of the best known singers from the 1970s - on; I used to super for the Met when it toured to the Kennedy Center in the early 1980s - and also supered with the Vienna State Opera when it toured to the Kennedy Center in 1979 (they picked me from a cattle call because I fit the costumes).


Any distinct favorites, among the big names, personality wise?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Hoffmann said:


> Oh dear. What I meant is I don't know enough to evaluate the specific elements of singing - legato, for example, or missed or skipped notes and specifically how one singer compares to another. My preference is for live opera over recordings, so have a fair number of performances I've seen in the U.S. and Europe over the years. I saw my first opera (Tales of Hoffmann!) at the Komische Oper Berlin in 1972 (how did 50 years fly by so quickly?).
> 
> I don't listen to historic recordings (at least outside of the remastered Callas catalog), so no knowledge of singers who were active earlier than the 1950s (I get too distracted by the sound quality in most cases).
> 
> I have, however, met or seen most of the best known singers from the 1970s - on; I used to super for the Met when it toured to the Kennedy Center in the early 1980s - and also supered with the Vienna State Opera when it toured to the Kennedy Center in 1979 (they picked me from a cattle call because I fit the costumes).


What I listen for and notice in opera is very different from a lot of the members but we all can give our own unique perspective. I think live performances are the best way to hear opera but many of us have not been able to experience as much live opera that you have except for Mas perhaps. I love to hear impressions about what singers sounded like live. With some singers such as Nilsson there was supposed to be a big difference in live and recorded sound.


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Any distinct favorites, among the big names, personality wise?


For context, these stories are from the late 1970s when I was in my twenties:

I have the fondest memory of the warmth of Marilyn Horne, who took time to chat with me while giving me her autograph - I was terrified since I was in such awe of her singing and she immediately put me at ease. There also was the easy charm of Samuel Ramey, whose stunning Mefistofele in Boito's opera with the late, lamented, NY City Opera was one of the most breathtaking performances I had seen - both come to mind.

One of my Met touring supering roles was in Otello (Placido Domingo). Sherill Milnes sang Iago and two of us supers were assigned to flank a door and prevent Iago from escaping the room after Otello had strangled Desdemona. We were told that Milnes, rather than the Met staff, would coach us thru our roles himself. In short, he stared at us and said that he hoped our health insurance was up to date as we were to move to block his exit and he would run into us full steam - and we should plan to bounce off the set. Which is exactly what happened (but we were unharmed). It was awesome.

Since I knew my way around the Kennedy Center, I knew how to get down to the dressing rooms, and boldly went downstairs -with my boss, Stella, who was a retired singer, to meet Luciano Pavarotti after a performance of Un Ballo in Maschera. I handed him my Victor Book of the Opera to sign, opened to the Un Ballo page - which has a photo of Marian Anderson's Ullrica - to which he responded "This is not me", but signed it anyway. 

There's more, but you get the idea.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Hoffmann said:


> For context, these stories are from the late 1970s when I was in my twenties:
> 
> I have the fondest memory of the warmth of Marilyn Horne, who took time to chat with me while giving me her autograph - I was terrified since I was in such awe of her singing and she immediately put me at ease. There also was the easy charm of Samuel Ramey, whose stunning Mefistofele in Boito's opera with the late, lamented, NY City Opera was one of the most breathtaking performances I had seen - both come to mind.
> 
> ...


Love your reflections! So fun to hear them as real people!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Hoffmann said:


> One of my Met touring supering roles was in Otello (Placido Domingo). Sherill Milnes sang Iago and two of us supers were assigned to flank a door and prevent Iago from escaping the room after Otello had strangled Desdemona. We were told that Milnes, rather than the Met staff, would coach us thru our roles himself. In short, he stared at us and said that he hoped our health insurance was up to date as we were to move to block his exit and he would run into us full steam - and we should plan to bounce off the set. Which is exactly what happened (but we were unharmed). It was awesome.


Milnes can get some bad press but that’s a great story. You guys stopped being supers and became an important part Of the story telling! Very cool!!


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

PaulFranz said:


> I know people online like to say Domingo was small, but I don't believe that. Villazon had a smaller voice and the modern tendency to be headier and then just force volume through that headier blend, so his high notes, even in his prime, had problems. They often had either a pre-wobble or that kind of beat/inverted vibrato that presages danger to come. Placido has always had a tendency to strain his high notes, but when he was a legit stage tenor, they NEVER had that modern unfocused wobble thing going on. He just sounded like he was going to rip in half and die, but obviously that's sustainable lol. And when the notes were on, they rang and were powerful.
> 
> As for Anna, I'm not sure I've ever been pleased with anything she's ever sung.


Youtuber Afro Poli said that Domingo's voice is five time louder than Kaufmann's. Ponselle in the James Drake's book said that Domingo's voice has "a ringing middle and upper voice that often reminded one of Jussi Bjorling's".


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> Youtuber Afro Poli said that Domingo's voice is five time louder than Kaufmann's. Ponselle in the James Drake's book said that Domingo's voice has "a ringing middle and upper voice that often reminded one of Jussi Bjorling's".


I heard him as Siegmund and he was really quite wonderful and was plenty loud enough. This was 15 years ago or so. I think it is only up around B and C where he might be a bit disappointing compared to the rest of the voice and that isn't a problem in Wagner for the most part.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

tsquare07 said:


> Youtuber Afro Poli said that Domingo's voice is five time louder than Kaufmann's. Ponselle in the James Drake's book said that Domingo's voice has "a ringing middle and upper voice that often reminded one of Jussi Bjorling's".


It's a big part of the reason that I kind of like Domingo, especially compared to his peers. He has that covered, ringing sound that I like in Jussi.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

tsquare07 said:


> Youtuber Afro Poli said that Domingo's voice is five time louder than Kaufmann's. Ponselle in the James Drake's book said that Domingo's voice has "a ringing middle and upper voice that often reminded one of Jussi Bjorling's".


I always thought Domingo fit the mold "strong voice"! Bring in the description powerful and people's expectations can really get in the way. But he sang Verdi and Verismo from day one and virile beauty of sound was his thing. And I don't remember any problems up to B flat....the B was another story. I don't ever remember him NOT having trouble with B. For the above quotes I think I'd go with Ponselle. Five times louder than Kaufman just sounds stupid.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

ScottK said:


> I always thought Domingo fit the mold "strong voice"! Bring in the description powerful and people's expectations can really get in the way. But he sang Verdi and Verismo from day one and virile beauty of sound was his thing. And I don't remember any problems up to B flat....the B was another story. I don't ever remember him NOT having trouble with B. For the above quotes I think I'd go with Ponselle. Five times louder than Kaufman just sounds stupid.


Ponselle actually worked with Domingo himself. And Milnes, Sills, Nilson, Price, etc.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I heard him as Siegmund and he was really quite wonderful and was plenty loud enough. This was 15 years ago or so. I think it is only up around B and C where he might be a bit disappointing compared to the rest of the voice and that isn't a problem in Wagner for the most part.


Thank you for this. They wouldn't have casted him if he had been completely drowned by the orchestra as a lot of people like to think. The standard in his time was just still quite higher than today's

BTW, How would you compare Domingo with *all the other tenors/singers* (that you've ever heard live of course)? I would love to know all the anecdote since i'm very young and never been to the opera before.

And have you ever heard Domingo in Otello? If yes, was he audible (being able to decipher the diction) in the middle and lower part of his range? And which house and what year?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> So in my book, you and Hoffman may not be musicians or ever have studied music in a classroom or conservatory, but with resume's like that, you passed the line and inherited the title of "De Facto Student" Loooooooong ago   !!
> 
> PS...say something about yesterdays Lohengrin!


Well, I knew what I was going to see. The show matched my expectations.
It was conducted by Gergiev, of course. He adores Wagner and has made his operas a signature of the theater. I must notice, that almost all my live Wagner experience is connected to Gergiev. 
Lohengrin was sung by Michail Vekua, our almost only _Heldentenor_. His voice has some issues, his upper register is barely manageable, but it's very big and with baritonal shades. His Herrmann was a disaster, Eneas was okay, but he is very attractive in Wagner. Perhaps the secret is relatively small amount of high notes. But I don't mind. He sings all the Wagner repertoire in the theater and became better since his first shows in Petersburg. Besides being powerful his voice is also sturdy. When he sings in all the Ring, he seems even fresher every next day. I prefer him to another our Lohengrin, who is also loud, more even, but has more light and less characteristic voice colour (is there such a world?).
Irina Churilova as Elsa has much the same problem, a big, even huge voice, easily heard without shouting, but darting off into a kind of explosion in high notes. Sometimes she is frightening, because of her I missed _Gioconda_ in concert. But Elsa is among the parts she does much more accurately, even well. (Another one is Fevronia). I also have another favorite in Mariinsky in this repertoire, Tatiana Pavlovskaya. I heard her three Brunhildes this autumn. 
Telramund was sung by Pavel Yankovsky, who recently added Wagner to his repertoire. There were some inconvenient points in the part, but in general it was done well, the voice is sure and beautiful. It's usually sung by our constant Wagnerian Eugeny Nikitin, but the latter's declaiming manner sometimes makes me tired (in contrast to his groupies).
Ortrud was also a success. In addition, Anna Markarova is probably the only one who sings it currently at all. Ortrud is a role that suits her. As often, I was in doubt where vibrato ends and wobble begins, but overall impression was fine. 
Usual and ineluctable Michail Petrenko as King Heinrich was changed, but not for the best. New king was dull enough. The Herald easily pulled the blanket. Gleb Peryazev is young and has a fresh voice. 
The production is calm and traditional, it was made about 20 years ago. The artist who conceived it made sketches a decade before the staging was begun and died. The production was realized by his colleagues, whom Gergiev invited. 








(I apologize for a big off-top).


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

About Villazón. It was one of the first "modern" names I knew, inevitably in connection with Netrebko. It was about twenty years ago, I was young, looked for my music, but would hardly distinguish Gwyneth Jones from Samantha Jones. So my reactions were mostly admired. Lately I watched some his videos, and I can say I liked Don Carlo with Furlanetto-Ganassi-Poplavskaya and Manon with Dessay (both before his surgery). The only time I heard him live was Iphigenie en Tauride, but it was after the break. Can't say anything bad. Next time he hosted a concert, but didn't sing himself.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ColdGenius said:


> Well, I knew what I was going to see. The show matched my expectations.
> It was conducted by Gergiev, of course. He adores Wagner and has made his operas a signature of the theater. I must notice, that almost all my live Wagner experience is connected to Gergiev.
> Lohengrin was sung by Michail Vekua, our almost only _Heldentenor_. His voice has some issues, his upper register is barely manageable, but it's very big and with baritonal shades. His Herrmann was a disaster, Eneas was okay, but he is very attractive in Wagner. Perhaps the secret is relatively small amount of high notes. But I don't mind. He sings all the Wagner repertoire in the theater and became better since his first shows in Petersburg. Besides being powerful his voice is also sturdy. When he sings in all the Ring, he seems even fresher every next day. I prefer him to another our Lohengrin, who is also loud, more even, but has more light and less characteristic voice colour (is there such a world?).
> Irina Churilova as Elsa has much the same problem, a big, even huge voice, easily heard without shouting, but darting off into a kind of explosion in high notes. Sometimes she is frightening, because of her I missed _Gioconda_ in concert. But Elsa is among the parts she does much more accurately, even well. (Another one is Fevronia). I also have another favorite in Mariinsky in this repertoire, Tatiana Pavlovskaya. I heard her three Brunhildes this autumn.
> ...


Great review!!, Great picture!!!, does pulled the blanket = took the prize?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> Great review!!, Great picture!!!, does pulled the blanket = took the prize?


Stole the show


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm always surprised by the admiration for Domingo. The voice seems quite artificial to me with an unappealing nasality. It's better than most tenors today but doesn't compare with many of those that came before him. He was passable in some repertoire but should not have sung Wagner and Otello. There are many more who shouldn't have sung those roles either, but at least they are rarely seen as a prime contender. If he wasn't so overhyped I might be a little nicer but I'd have much preferred him as a good comprimario singer as opposed to someone taking lead roles.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Op.123 said:


> I'm always surprised by the admiration for Domingo. The voice seems quite artificial to me with an unappealing nasality. It's better than most tenors today but doesn't compare with many of those that came before him. He was passable in some repertoire but should not have sung Wagner and Otello. There are many more who shouldn't have sung those roles either, but at least they are rarely seen as a prime contender. If he wasn't so overhyped I might be a little nicer but I'd have much preferred him as a good comprimario singer as opposed to someone taking lead roles.


1. I'm not sure I agree on the nasality part. Lots of signers are called nasal when they have a stuffy, unpleasant timbre, which Placido often does, but I don't really see the relationship between that timbre and an open velopharyngeal port. When you listen to singers like Domingo, Kraus, Peerce, Lemeshev, etc. who have all been called nasal, sing in French, you realize that actual nasality sounds quite different. I think actual constant nasality would be such an enormous technical flaw that no singer with it would advance past the initial stages of study.

Anecdotally, it seems that most people have a very incorrect idea of what nasality sounds like, often completely confusing hypernasality with hyponasality. I have found that if I block my nose and speak with a lot of twang, the resultant timbre is usually described as nasal, despite that of course being impossible.

2. Sure, he's not in the same league as dozens of tenors from before his time, but during his time? In big, major roles? I'd take him over anyone. In short, I'd say Kraus was too thin, Pavarotti too shouty, and Giacomini too inconsistent, and those are the only competitors that come to mind. Placido had a kind of ugly voice, but it was very consistent and big enough to do the job in most major houses and rôles, and it rang well.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> 1. I'm not sure I agree on the nasality part. Lots of signers are called nasal when they have a stuffy, unpleasant timbre, which Placido often does, but I don't really see the relationship between that timbre and an open velopharyngeal port. When you listen to singers like Domingo, Kraus, Peerce, Lemeshev, etc. who have all been called nasal, sing in French, you realize that actual nasality sounds quite different. I think actual constant nasality would be such an enormous technical flaw that no singer with it would advance past the initial stages of study.
> 
> Anecdotally, it seems that most people have a very incorrect idea of what nasality sounds like, often completely confusing hypernasality with hyponasality. I have found that if I block my nose and speak with a lot of twang, the resultant timbre is usually described as nasal, despite that of course being impossible.
> 
> 2. Sure, he's not in the same league as dozens of tenors from before his time, but during his time? In big, major roles? I'd take him over anyone. In short, I'd say Kraus was too thin, Pavarotti too shouty, and Giacomini too inconsistent, and those are the only competitors that come to mind. Placido had a kind of ugly voice, but it was very consistent and big enough to do the job in most major houses and rôles, and it rang well.


If what people are referring to as nasality isn't technically nasality I'm not too bothered. It's a way to identify a common technical fault possessed by singers such as Domingo and Felming. Whatever you want to call it, it is incorrect and unpleasant.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

[QUOTE="PaulFranz, post: 2412891, member: 53585"
Sure, he's not in the same league as dozens of tenors from before his time, but during his time? In big, major roles? I'd take him over anyone. In short, I'd say Kraus was too thin, Pavarotti too shouty, and Giacomini too inconsistent, and those are the only competitors that come to mind. 
[/QUOTE]
On that level...Vickers! This is, however, defining each one from a major liability. Their careers are way too substantial to only look at that. Or to put it another way.....Bjoerling too cold, Gigli too sweet, Martinelli not attractive, Caruso unrefined, Corelli too... - Domingo’s sound was definitely more luxurious in the house and despite his refusal to work on a role hard enough to at least try and show us something new ( his truly great failing!!!) his lines were always musical. As soon as I put him down I find myself defending him and as soon as I defend him.....2 guesses😉!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Op.123 said:


> The voice seems quite artificial to me .............................but I'd have much preferred him as a good comprimario singer


I’m not the first to say that the artificiality really seems to be an artifact of the recording studio ................ good comprimario?????... so who sings radames when he sings The messenger???


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I’m not the first to say that the artificiality really seems to be an artifact of the recording studio ................ good comprimario?????... so who sings radames when he sings The messenger???


It’s nothing to do with the recording studio, he sounds the same in live performances and, while certain voice do record differently to how they sound live, recordings don’t lie in terms of general timbral attributes. It is fair to say there were not many tenors of that time or since who would make a perfect Radamas but Cecchele, Giacomini, Bonisolli and Martinucci, despite not being first choices overall, would have been more appropriate as Radames.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Op.123 said:


> It’s nothing to do with the recording studio, he sounds the same in live performances and, while certain voice do record differently to how they sound live, recordings don’t lie in terms of general timbral attributes. It is fair to say there were not many tenors of that time or since who would make a perfect Radamas but Cecchele, Giacomini, Bonisolli and Martinucci, despite not being first choices overall, would have been more appropriate as Radames.


Charisma in a sound or a performer is a hard thing to explain or directly recognize but it's not hard to recognize the effect it has. Not one of those singers you mentioned was remotely close to Domingo for excitement. If they were, they would have had the records and opening nights to prove it. He debuted at the Met in the late 60's. What was the best live performance of his you attended in the 70s or 80's....his youthful vocal prime.....clearly a prerequisite to state categorically that he sounds the same live or recorded.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I rate Villazon the same I do as people who think Whitney Houston can sing better today (she's frigging dead) than Caruso in his prime. But they will exist, it's the the be-insanity hour!!!

N.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Charisma in a sound or a performer is a hard thing to explain or directly recognize but it's not hard to recognize the effect it has. Not one of those singers you mentioned was remotely close to Domingo for excitement. If they were, they would have had the records and opening nights to prove it. He debuted at the Met in the late 60's. What was the best live performance of his you attended in the 70s or 80's....his youthful vocal prime.....clearly a prerequisite to state categorically that he sounds the same live or recorded.


I didn’t see Domingo live and it’s naive to suggest someone needs to see someone live to understand the quality of their voice. Of course charisma plays a role in enjoyment of live theatre but when listening to recordings I want artistry and voice. Domingo doesn’t have that for me. Admittedly the singers I mentioned could be artistically questionable but at least the voice was the voice was there. Also these singers had many great opening nights in many theatres so it’s a null point. As for record deals, the best aren’t always recorded. Remember, it was Lauri-Volpi who supposedly had to pay for recordings of Claudia Muzio when the record companies didn’t see her worth. We also have few studio recordings of Eileen Farrell, Oralia Dominguez, Gino Penno etc. Artists who fully deserved some recognition. Meanwhile singers such as Kaufmann and Juan Diego Florez get far too much recognition so it’s not really a good indicator.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Op.123 said:


> I didn’t see Domingo live and it’s naive to suggest someone needs to see someone live to understand the quality of their voice. Of course charisma plays a role in enjoyment of live theatre but when listening to recordings I want artistry and voice. Domingo doesn’t have that for me. Admittedly the singers I mentioned could be artistically questionable but at least the voice was the voice was there. Also these singers had many great opening nights in many theatres so it’s a null point. As for record deals, the best aren’t always recorded. Remember, it was Lauri-Volpi who supposedly had to pay for recordings of Claudia Muzio when the record companies didn’t see her worth. We also have few studio recordings of Eileen Farrell, Oralia Dominguez, Gino Penno etc. Artists who fully deserved some recognition. Meanwhile singers such as Kaufmann and Juan Diego Florez get far too much recognition so it’s not really a good indicator.


I only mentioned it because you said he sounded the same live and recorded.....that’s the only reason I went there Of course you don’t have to respond to Domingo and a great deal of the time I’m with you!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I only mentioned it because you said he sounded the same live and recorded.....that’s the only reason I went there Of course you don’t have to respond to Domingo and a great deal of the time I’m with you!


Sorry, I meant that he sounded the same in the recording studio and in live recordings.


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