# Mendelssohn's Elijah



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

*I officially prefer Mendelssohn's Elijah to Handel's Messiah.*

What is wrong with me?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Victorian tastes, do you also wear a top hat and like women in clothes with fishbone structural engineering?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

What's wrong with you? Nothing at all. The longest, most tortuous concert I have ever sat through was a complete Messiah - with the original orchestration. So boring and tedious. I've sat through Elijah and enjoyed it a great deal more. Then I started playing in an orchestra that did these choral monstrosities. I have to say that playing bassoon in Messiah (in the Prout version) is much, much more gratifying than playing Elijah.

Everything comes and goes out of fashion, but these large-scale choral works are sure on the outs, at least in the USA. Messiah comes up annually, especially at Christmas, and is normally cut heavily. American public tastes just don't seem inclined toward these things. When was the last time anyone put on The Dream of Gerontius here?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with having a preference. I like both of them, but Elijah is more dramatic. In Nashville, I haven't seen any "professional" concerts of it, but it does show up in university concerts, where I was able to see it. 

The one complaint I have about Elijah is the woman. Elijah comes in to raise her dead son, and she spends the whole time shouting in his ear. She's pretty annoying.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Manxfeeder said:


> The one complaint I have about Elijah is the woman. Elijah comes in to raise her dead son, and she spends the whole time shouting in his ear. She's pretty annoying.


Do you know Mendelsohn's St. Paul? It has some glorious parts (like the ouverture and also a later choral treatment of the "Sleeper's awake"/"Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme" chorale) but is IMO marred by the bad idea of a soprano in a narrator/evangelist rôle which is really grating at times.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Kreisler jr said:


> Do you know Mendelsohn's St. Paul? It has some glorious parts (like the ouverture and also a later choral treatment of the "Sleeper's awake"/"Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme" chorale) but is IMO marred by the bad idea of a soprano in a narrator/evangelist rôle which is really grating at times.


I have Herreweghe's recording. I haven't been annoyed before by the soprano, but I'll have to hear it again and see if you just ruined it for me.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Both great oratorios, but I tend to listen to Messiah about 100 times as often.

Try Handel's Israel in Egypt. The only piece I like in that one is The Land Brought Fourth Frogs. :lol:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think all the choral plagues are better than the single plague aria (frogs). And many choruses in the second part are also quite good (The people shall hear) but overall it is rather uneven, compared to Messiah. Messiah is one of the least dramatic (together with "Israel" it is one of the few that do not have acting persons in them). The closest to Elijah might be some mix of Saul, Samson and Belshazzar.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> There's nothing wrong with having a preference. I like both of them, but Elijah is more dramatic. In Nashville, I haven't seen any "professional" concerts of it, but it does show up in university concerts, where I was able to see it.
> 
> The one complaint I have about Elijah is the woman. Elijah comes in to raise her dead son, and she spends the whole time shouting in his ear. She's pretty annoying.


That is why I love Elijah. For all its catchiness, Messiah does not tell us much of a story-- its movements are based on Bible verses that Handel interpretated as being about Christ (some are; others like Isa 40 are...debatable). Besides, I think that the Romantic style lends itself better to drama.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Kreisler jr said:


> Do you know Mendelsohn's St. Paul? It has some glorious parts (like the ouverture and also a later choral treatment of the "Sleeper's awake"/"Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme" chorale) but is IMO marred by the bad idea of a soprano in a narrator/evangelist rôle which is really grating at times.


I love the duet where the false witnesses accuse Stephen, the chorus immediately following that, and the part where Saul expresses his remorse. It is a good oratorio, but nowhere near the level of Elijah in musical ideas or orchestration.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

SixFootScowl said:


> Both great oratorios, but I tend to listen to Messiah about 100 times as often.
> 
> Try Handel's Israel in Egypt. The only piece I like in that one is The Land Brought Fourth Frogs. :lol:


Not, "He smote all the firstborn of Egypt" or "And the children of Israel sighed"?


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> I have Herreweghe's recording. I haven't been annoyed before by the soprano, but I'll have to hear it again and see if you just ruined it for me.


To me, the jarring parts are the chorus in movements like this:


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

What are everyone's favorite versions of Elijah. I have not listened to it in years and am listening to it now. I only have one recording of it: Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgess w/ Jones, Baker, Gedda, & Fischer-Dieskau.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Varick said:


> What are everyone's favorite versions of Elijah. I have not listened to it in years and am listening to it now. I only have one recording of it: Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgess w/ Jones, Baker, Gedda, & Fischer-Dieskau.


This one in English. *Sample clips*


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

This one also is very good .


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Varick said:


> What are everyone's favorite versions of Elijah. I have not listened to it in years and am listening to it now. I only have one recording of it: Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgess w/ Jones, Baker, Gedda, & Fischer-Dieskau.


In addition to the versions below, both of which are fine, there is Herreweghe's German-language recording availiable on Youtube:


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I have performed both oratorios many times as tenor and bass. Elijah is far more dramatic and operatic with its highlighted solo performer in the name role. Both portions of the oratorio, especially the first part, conclude in high drama. Elijah is also from the romantic 19th century while Messiah from the Baroque period meaning less drama, fewer volume shifts, and a more even presentation.

To say you enjoy Elijah more than Messiah says more about your taste than the two oratorios, I'd say.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

larold said:


> I have performed both oratorios many times as tenor and bass. Elijah is far more dramatic *and operatic* with its highlighted solo performer in the name role. Both portions of the oratorio, especially the first part, conclude in high drama. Elijah is also from the romantic 19th century while Messiah from the Baroque period meaning less drama, fewer volume shifts, and a more even presentation.
> 
> To say you enjoy Elijah more than Messiah says more about your taste than the two oratorios, I'd say.


So one might just consider that Mendelssohn did have a successful "opera" after all.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Just found this one in my hoard of library sale dollar CDs that I have never listened to. I guess it is about time since I am listening to the Paul Daniel set right now.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> What's wrong with you? Nothing at all. The longest, most tortuous concert I have ever sat through was a complete Messiah - with the original orchestration. So boring and tedious.






 (~2:40)


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_So one might just consider that Mendelssohn did have a successful "opera" after all._

I don't think of it that way. Mendelssohn adored Bach, copied his keyboard music and cantatas, then premiered a version of the St. Matthew Passion that had never been performed. I think of Elijah as more a Mendelssohn version of a Bach oratorio than opera.

He wrote dramatic choral music elsewhere such as the First Walpurgis Night that is perhaps closer to opera.


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