# Early versions of well known works



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Over the years that I have been listening to classical music, it has been fascinating to encounter the occasional resurrection of an early version of a work which the composer withdrew and replaced. Two such examples are the 1913 version of Vaughan Williams London Symphony and the 4 movement version of Sibelius' 5th. What have been your reactions on hearing a composer's earlier thoughts on a work?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

+ & -: it depends.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Do the versions of Beethoven's different overtures to Fidelio count here?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

To be more specific (and I can barely pull together any examples), I recently heard Schoenberg's Op9 and his later revision Op9b. I felt that the original was better, while the revision muddied the clarity of instrumentation of his earlier version. A while ago, I heard an original version of one of Bruckner's earlier symphonies (don't recall which one) and I thought he was very wise to have revised it, as the original seemed to lack direction. And Prokofiev has famously given us two versions of his Fourth Symphony, both of which are excellent.

I enjoy the opportunity to make these comparisons, however.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Do the versions of Beethoven's different overtures to Fidelio count here?


Sure ... also Klagende Lied, Robert Schumann's 4th Symphony. Other suggestion?

For what it's worth, I find myself listening to the 1913 version of the RVW 2nd. Yes it might not be as well structured but there is much wonderful music that he removed.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2015)

I believe there is an earlier version of Mahler's 1st symphony, containing the "Blumine" movement. Someone who knows better can maybe correct me if I'm wrong.

Other than that, I know that there are at least 2 versions of many of Bruckner's symphonies.

Finally, I had read that Brahms revised his Piano Trio No. 1 multiple times throughout his life - I don't know whether we still have copies of some of the earlier versions, or only the final one he left us with, which is one of the most perfect works that I have heard, and still captivates me every time I listen to it.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Bruckner´s 3rd is much, much better in the original version; the Inbal recording of it remains my favourite rendition of that symphony. Otherwise I don´t immediately recall any other pieces where it seems to be the case.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DrMike said:


> I believe there is an earlier version of Mahler's 1st symphony, containing the "Blumine" movement. Someone who knows better can maybe correct me if I'm wrong.


Yes, originally, the work was called "Titan", and it had a total of five movements (Blumine was second, and was the "Adagio" of the work). He made other changes, particularly in orchestration, but the finale was in part recomposed. He cut out a section of the development leading to the recapitulation and replaced it with a new, more effective bridge (and didn't make the recapitulation begin the same way as the movement itself, mostly because it is a weaker effect the second time around).

When the work was finally published as "Symphony No. 1", it had no subtitle and no programs or programmatic titles.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Brahms First Piano Trio, Op. 8 (I think) was recomposed 30 years later and the changes were pretty extensive. I definitely prefer the later, more concise version. Harmonically, not much changes, as Brahms had his Compositional syntax intact in his early works.
Mendelssohn was constantly reviving his Symphonies. I remember hearing a recording of an earlier version of the Italian that rambled a bit.
This week's Symphony, Robert Schumann's Fourth, exists in a couple of versions.
How about Beethoven's Choral Fantasy (Piano, Chorus, Orchestra) vs. the Ninth Symphony? The earlier work certainly comes off like a sketch for the latter.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Bruckner 3, first version - Tintner recording on Naxos is the definitive one for me.
Bruckner 4, first version - Inbal. Completely different Scherzo and many changes in other movenets - it's almost like a new symphony!


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Tchaikovsky rewrote the middle movement of his violin concerto, when asked to do so by his benefactor, Von Meck. It has been preserved in another of his work, I believe.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Mussorgsky's "Night in a Bare Mountain" sounds completely different in it's original form to the more familiar Rimsky-Korsakov version which we hear most commonly today.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

There is an early orchestral work by Mahler called 'Totenfeier' which he reworked later to become the first movement of his 2nd symphony.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

techniquest said:


> Mussorgsky's "Night in a Bare Mountain" sounds completely different in it's original form to the more familiar Rimsky-Korsakov version which we hear most commonly today.


Most of Mussorgsky's music was f#cked up by the poor understanding of others (not least Rimsky-Korsakov!), I almost always feel that the original versions are better, rawer, more genuine!

/ptr


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Back in the day I played the original "St John's night on bald mountain" and it was a "trip" after being used to Rimsky. Mussoursgky's way cooler, of course - what a unique voice and the composition dates on his music is always so much earlier than I can easily fathom! I've heard the origianl Boris in recording too and it's certainly idiosyncratic


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## Baregrass (Feb 16, 2015)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Do the versions of Beethoven's different overtures to Fidelio count here?


I would say so.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

dgee said:


> Back in the day I played the original "St John's night on bald mountain" and it was a "trip" after being used to Rimsky. Mussoursgky's way cooler, of course - what a unique voice and the composition dates on his music is always so much earlier than I can easily fathom! I've heard the origianl Boris in recording too and it's certainly idiosyncratic


I attended a performance of the original version of Boris and it was magnificent. I greatly prefer it to the better known later one. Some of R-K's tampering with Boris was unforgivable; but then every member of The Five at one time or another expressed the opinion that Mussorgsky was an idiot. Gratifying to see the judgment of history.


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