# Disney's "Fantasia"



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What do you think of this film? I think it's the best Film Walt ever made. The whole thing is brilliant! I love the Pastoral and Rite of Spring (scary) scenes.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

I believe it was my first exposure to Dukas's _Sorcerer's Apprentice_. So I'm glad about that.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What do you think of this film? I think it's the best Film Walt ever made. The whole thing is brilliant! I love the Pastoral and Rite of Spring (scary) scenes.


I agree, and in large part due to the genius of Leopold Stokowski, who had great theatrical instincts. I first saw it when I was four and immediately became a Stravinsky fan for life.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2018)

Also my favorite. I liked all parts, but probably best liked the Dance of the Hours and Nutcracker Suite. 

When the sequel came out in 2000, I was disappointed and a bit bored. But I applaud Roy Disney for at least trying.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Alkan said:


> Also my favorite. I liked all parts, but probably best liked the Dance of the Hours and Nutcracker Suite.
> 
> When the sequel came out in 2000, I was disappointed and a bit bored. But I applaud Roy Disney for at least trying.


I've never seen it, and am not to keen on it either.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

The Night on Bald Mountain sequence has some of the finest stuff Disney produced. Bill Tytla, the lead animator for the 'devil' or Chernabog character was probably the greatest animator who ever lived.

As whole, Fantasia is wildly uneven--even within the same sequence its tone can vary from tasteless to grandiose to bizarre. It's a colossal, kitschy, ambitious monstrosity of a movie.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Logos said:


> The Night on Bald Mountain sequence has some of the finest stuff Disney produced. Bill Tytla, the lead animator for the 'devil' or Chernabog character was probably the greatest animator who ever lived.
> 
> As whole, Fantasia is wildly uneven--even within the same sequence its tone can vary from tasteless to grandiose to bizarre. It's a colossal, kitschy, ambitious monstrosity of a movie.


I disagree. I think it's wonderfully inspired, individual shorts, tied together with scenes from the orchestra and the conductor's narration, with the common thread of putting animation to Classical Music.

I don't think scenes are uneven within each other at all. I'm going to watch it today, and I'll report if my opinion changes!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It seems to me that Disney's Chernabog was the inspiration for LOTR's Balrog.

BTW I do think that Fantasia 2000 is well worth seeing. Some of the segments are very good.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I agree with Logos I've enjoyed it many times. but there are sequences I can take or leave (the Dance of the Hours, the Pastorale Symphony, Ave Maria). Probably at my age I don't need to see it again. Mary Poppins, however . . .


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> I agree with Logos I've enjoyed it many times. but there are sequences I can take or leave (the Dance of the Hours, the Pastorale Symphony, Ave Maria). Probably at my age I don't need to see it again. Mary Poppins, however . . .


Mary Poppins the Book is much better than the movie imo, and I think the movie is pretty good and saw it before I read the book.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I don't think scenes are uneven within each other at all. I'm going to watch it today, and I'll report if my opinion changes!


Don't misunderstand me--I think it's the greatest animated movie ever made, or at least one of the top 3--but I still think it's wildly uneven. In the Pastoral sequence for example, you've got more or less realistically proportioned flying horses combined with a cartoony black "mammy" centaurette serving the white centaurettes; jokes involving cutesy cherubim buttocks forming a heart followed by a serious depiction of Artemis, etc. In my view, the juxtaposition of extremely cartoony and serious tones/designs doesn't work all that well.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that Disney's Chernabog was the inspiration for LOTR's Balrog.
> 
> BTW I do think that Fantasia 2000 is well worth seeing. Some of the segments are very good.


Do you enjoy the original? I'll watch 2000 just b/c you recommend it, I always thought it was a rehash, cash grab effort.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Logos said:


> Don't misunderstand me--I think it's the greatest animated movie ever made, or at least one of the top 3--but I still think it's wildly uneven. In the Pastoral sequence for example, you've got more or less realistically proportioned flying horses combined with a cartoony black "mammy" centaurette serving the white centaurettes; jokes involving cutesy cherubim buttocks forming a heart followed by a serious depiction of Artemis, etc. In my view, the juxtaposition of extremely cartoony and serious tones/designs doesn't work all that well.


It works for me, I love the Pastoral sequence, that one always stood out to me, before I really even knew who Beethoven was or familiar with that piece at all.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Do you enjoy the original? I'll watch 2000 just b/c you recommend it, I always thought it was a rehash, cash grab effort.


I think the original seems quite uneven today, 75 years or so later. But that's maybe because tastes have changed. And of course we're _so _much more sophisticated now - and that's a good thing, right? 

The Disney people naturally wanted both Fantasias to make money. The first disappointed them for many years. And I doubt the second has done any better.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I remember seeing it when I was a kid and thinking it was cute. Then they rereleased it when I was in college, studying music and discovering classical music, and I thought it was great. I wonder what I'd think now.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Both Fantasias are curate's eggs - I saw the 2000 version recently and liked the Shostakovich sequence, but the Elgar segment was a terrible mish-mash.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I admire and appreciate both Fantasia films, but I have to give the edge to the sequel. Deems Taylor, The Pastoral Symphony, The Rite of Spring, the sound track segment, and Toccata and Fugue all have mixed quality to me and slow down the movie substantially. Fantasia 2000 is one of the finest movies I've seen.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

bharbeke said:


> I admire and appreciate both Fantasia films, but I have to give the edge to the sequel. Deems Taylor, The Pastoral Symphony, The Rite of Spring, the sound track segment, and Toccata and Fugue all have mixed quality to me and slow down the movie substantially. Fantasia 2000 is one of the finest movies I've seen.


I'll have to watch it!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm watching it now. It's on "The Nutcracker Suite".


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Ok, I just finished it and I must say, this is an incredible film. Beautiful, funny, scary and informative. It's just really really good.

I really don't think it's uneven at all, but to each their own!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Mary Poppins the Book is much better than the movie imo, and I think the movie is pretty good and saw it before I read the book.


I'm old enough that I'd probably feel silly getting out the book. Then again, maybe not. There are always the grandchildren!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> I'm old enough that I'd probably feel silly getting out the book. Then again, maybe not. There are always the grandchildren!


It's really well written; good for all ages!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> I'm old enough that I'd probably feel silly getting out the book. Then again, maybe not. There are always the grandchildren!


Also, if you are not too old for the movie, you certainly aren't too old for the book. It's like Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Logos said:


> The Night on Bald Mountain sequence has some of the finest stuff Disney produced. Bill Tytla, the lead animator for the 'devil' or Chernabog character was probably the greatest animator who ever lived.
> 
> As whole, Fantasia is wildly uneven--even within the same sequence its tone can vary from tasteless to grandiose to bizarre. It's a colossal, kitschy, ambitious monstrosity of a movie.


In other words -- pure genius! There is no doubt that Disney got a lot more smooth and slick and improved its production values over the years. Dumbo is another sprawling mess of a classic Disney movie from the same era as Fantasia. But there is a creative extravagance, a nearly simultaneous outpouring of all sorts of startling ideas, that you no longer see, and no longer will see, from today's smooth corporate Disney.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

fluteman said:


> Dumbo is another sprawling mess of a classic Disney movie from the same era as Fantasia...


"Pink Elephants on Parade" from Dumbo is psychedelia from way before the psychedelic era.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

Look at the difference between Steamboat Willie (1928) and Fantasia (1940). It's the equivalent of going from the Wright Flyer in 1903 to an F-16 by 1915.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

They're both great experimental films, the first the greater of the two. The sequel had the misfortune of coming out when TV, computers, DVDs and other technologies made it superfluous. And it didn't have Stokowski. The original, BTW, was re-recorded in modern digital sound with conductor Irwin Kostal (of Mary Poppins and West Side Story fame). Even though his timing was perfectly in sync with Stokies, and despite the vastly superior sound, old Stokowski beats him hands down. He really was a magical conductor.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2018)

I dislike it. My loss. I recognise why it may be considered important, but I'd rather not sit through it. Ever.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

shirime said:


> I dislike it. My loss. I recognise why it may be considered important, but I'd rather not sit through it. Ever.


What do you dislike about it?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Reading up: Michael Eisner had recently been appointed CEO at Disney. He acceded to Roy Disney’s pleas for a sequel to Fantasia (later named Fantasia 2000) and made Roy (Walt’s nephew) the executive producer. The sequel broke even at best and, if all the dust were blown away, probably lost a bundle.

Eisner later called it “Disney’s folly.”


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2018)

Logos said:


> What do you dislike about it?


There's something about it that seems rather twee to me, and somethings else that seems rather rigid about the visual/narrative interpretation of music. I will say that I quite enjoy the Bach fantasy and fugue, but not so much the rest of it.


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

I prefer Bruno Bozzetto's _Allegro Non Troppo_


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Taplow said:


> I prefer Bruno Bozzetto's _Allegro Non Troppo_


Is it the same concept?


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2018)

Well, I guess I will have to watch F2000 again. I don't remember any Shostakovitch or Elgar, only Rhapsody in Blue.

Maybe my expectations were too high. I actually own a copy of the film, a vcr... somewhere...


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Elgar: Pomp and Circumstance (Donald/Daisy Duck on Noah's Ark)
Shostakovich: Piano Concerto No. 2 (The Steadfast Tin Soldier)

My favorite is Saint-Saens' Carnival of the Animals finale (What would happen if you gave a yo-yo to a flock of flamingos? Who wrote this?).


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I think it a good film. It is not so great that I would want to see the whole thing again but I enjoyed it the few times I watched it. When I cast my memory back I am sure that much of it will have dated. It had a worthiness about it that just doesn't fly these days. It is a shame it didn't lead to a whole genre of films made up of imagery inspired by great music.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I believe that I was 8 when I first saw the film in a theater, but my mother insists that she sat with me in her lap and watched it on TV when I was only about 2 (but it would have been black and white tv, with quite a small screen). I remember the powerful effect of several parts of the film, especially the Night on Bald Mountain sequence. To this day, it is still the only way I can get all the way through Rite of Spring (although I understand that it is truncated a bit). Over all, I suspect that my early interest in classical music came more from Warner Brothers cartoons, which I saw much more often.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Steve Martin narrating F. 2000 was a really bad call, . I enjoyed the B5 opener, but the whale short did not work for me at all.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

I have enjoyed both Fantasia flicks.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

From the original Fantasia I like the more abstract like the Bach Toccata and the Nutcracker. The Pastoral and Rite of Spring, Night on Bald Mountain reimaginations were corny. The Sorcerer's Apprentice was of course well done.


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## Alkan (Jun 30, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Steve Martin narrating F. 2000 was a really bad call, . I enjoyed the B5 opener, but the whale short did not work for me at all.


That's sort of the way I remember it too. Still, I'm going to find that tape and watch it again.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

FYI, if you haven't continued on, the hosts between segments of Fantasia 2000 are different each time. You also get people like Angela Lansbury, James Earl Jones, and Penn & Teller.

Pines of Rome with flying whales worked for me originally because of the flight through space/light/water/clouds at the end. It works even better for me now as a parent who knows what it is like to worry about a child getting into a difficult situation or being separated.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

bharbeke said:


> FYI, if you haven't continued on, the hosts between segments of Fantasia 2000 are different each time. You also get people like Angela Lansbury, James Earl Jones, and Penn & Teller.
> 
> Pines of Rome with flying whales worked for me originally because of the flight through space/light/water/clouds at the end. It works even better for me now as a parent who knows what it is like to worry about a child getting into a difficult situation or being separated.


Whatever works for you, that's all that matters in the end in Art Appreciation. Are the Whales CGI? Something about the animation during that segment also turned me off from it.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

The whales were definitely CGI in the crowds. That short was a blend of hand-drawn and CG, and it's been too long since I watched the documentary for me to say what is what anymore. The very next one is Rhapsody in Blue, agreed by most to be the best short in the film (and the others are probably big Mickey Mouse fans who still adore The Sorcerer's Apprentice the most).


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is it the same concept?


Yes, but much more "adult" and corrosive. Just watch the Bolero sequence (mocking the Rite in Fantasia) or the Firebird.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

GioCar said:


> Yes, but much more "adult" and corrosive. Just watch the Bolero sequence (mocking the Rite in Fantasia) or the Firebird.


That sounds interesting. I do love the Rite from Fantasia, but a mockery of it done in good taste could be enjoyable.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2018)

GioCar said:


> Yes, but much more "adult" and corrosive. Just watch the Bolero sequence (mocking the Rite in Fantasia) or the Firebird.


Interesting indeed..............


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