# A few questions for string players



## Argus

1. What would be the more accurate term to describe a very slow slide up an octave on the same string, a glissando or a portamento?

2. If a want a player to bounce the bow on the string in short notes but _not_ mute the string at all afterwards (a la staccato), would I use a spiccato or jete direction?

3. Is it possible to perform behind-the-nut (so in the pegbox area) vibrato on open strings for cellos and basses?

4. Do natural harmonics, specifically the first octave harmonic, allow players a good amount of control over dynamics?


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## Klavierspieler

1. Glissando, methinks.



3. No.

4. Yes, at least on 'cello one can very good dynamic control on the first few.


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## Zanralotta

Argus said:


> 1. What would be the more accurate term to describe a very slow slide up an octave on the same string, a glissando or a portamento?
> 
> 2. If a want a player to bounce the bow on the string in short notes but _not_ mute the string at all afterwards (a la staccato), would I use a spiccato or jete direction?
> 
> 3. Is it possible to perform behind-the-nut (so in the pegbox area) vibrato on open strings for cellos and basses?
> 
> 4. Do natural harmonics, specifically the first octave harmonic, allow players a good amount of control over dynamics?


1. _Glissando_. 
_Portamento_ is something rather subtle, more like audiable position change, rather than an actual slide.

2. Both _spiccato_ and _jeté/ricochet_ are "elastic" jumps on the string. Neither mutes the sound like a real _staccato_, where the bow stops and stays on the string.
_Spiccato_ is easier, so I would chose that (chances are, if you write the passage as _ricochet_, players will disregard you advice anyways - like most violinists do with Paganini's 5th Caprice).

3. Huh?

4. Depends on the instrument, I think. On the viola, not much. The tone will be relatively dominant without being very loud.


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## Argus

Thanks for the answers you two.

As for the harmonics, would it be possible to crescendo/diminuendo the first (mid-string) harmonic from _pp_ to _ff_, and more importantly would the loudest played harmonics on the cello and bass overpower the loudest harmonics on the violin and viola? In other words would they mix well or would there be discrepancies between the volume of the high and low harmonics? (I'm only talking about the first harmonic here not more difficult to sound higher ones).



Zanralotta said:


> 3. Huh?


I'll clarify that a bit. On instruments like guitars and various zithers it's possible to play an open string and press up and down on the string between the nut and the tuners to create a pronounced vibrato. I would guess this probably isn't possible on the violin or viola because the tuning pegs don't provide the stability necessary, but on a double bass with machine heads it could work. It's not that important, I just thought it would be a nice effect to add vibrato to pizzicatoed open strings.


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## Klavierspieler

Argus said:


> I'll clarify that a bit. On instruments like guitars and various zithers it's possible to play an open string and press up and down on the string between the nut and the tuners to create a pronounced vibrato. I would guess this probably isn't possible on the violin or viola because the tuning pegs don't provide the stability necessary, but on a double bass with machine heads it could work. It's not that important, I just thought it would be a nice effect to add vibrato to pizzicatoed open strings.


Oops! I thought you meant between the bridge and the fine tuners. I don't know about that.


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## kv466

Hi,...Argus! Nice to see some sign of life from you, señor. Good year wishes.


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## Argus

kv466 said:


> Hi,...Argus! Nice to see some sign of life from you, señor. Good year wishes.


Cheers and the same to you too. I've been trying to really focus on writing some larger scale works so I cut down on the down time a bit, which included frequenting here as regularly.

Also, one last question. How tricky are double stopped harmonics? I'd imagine they'd be simpler on the cello and bass because of the upright position of the neck, but on violin and viola it's probably more awkward (in terms of wrist position) to play harmonics in the same position on different strings, especially if they are to be sustained for a while.


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## Zanralotta

Argus said:


> Thanks for the answers you two.
> 
> As for the harmonics, would it be possible to crescendo/diminuendo the first (mid-string) harmonic from _pp_ to _ff_, and more importantly would the loudest played harmonics on the cello and bass overpower the loudest harmonics on the violin and viola? In other words would they mix well or would there be discrepancies between the volume of the high and low harmonics? (I'm only talking about the first harmonic here not more difficult to sound higher ones).


As an orchestra player, I'm unfortunately not the best person to answer questions about balance within an ensemble. The sound on stage is too different from what reaches the concert hall (and every concert hall is different)...


> I'll clarify that a bit. On instruments like guitars and various zithers it's possible to play an open string and press up and down on the string between the nut and the tuners to create a pronounced vibrato. I would guess this probably isn't possible on the violin or viola because the tuning pegs don't provide the stability necessary, but on a double bass with machine heads it could work. It's not that important, I just thought it would be a nice effect to add vibrato to pizzicatoed open strings.


Oh, I see. It's about vibrato, not some specific technique of creating it...

To vibrate on an open string of a violin/viola, you vibrate on next higher string, so yes, it is possible to add vibrato.

ETA: About harmonic double stops: It's easy on viola, and probably easier on violin. Easier than natural tones, anyway.


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## Argus

Zanralotta said:


> Oh, I see. It's about vibrato, not some specific technique of creating it...
> 
> To vibrate on an open string of a violin/viola, you vibrate on next higher string, so yes, it is possible to add vibrato.
> 
> ETA: About harmonic double stops: It's easy on viola, and probably easier on violin. Easier than natural tones, anyway.


Thanks. That just about answers all I need to know at the moment. I'd never heard about that vibrating on the next higher string technique.


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## Klavierspieler

Argus said:


> Thanks. That just about answers all I need to know at the moment. I'd never heard about that vibrating on the next higher string technique.


Oh! I see what you're asking now. It's actually the next lower string, so the only note you can't vibrate is the very bottom note of an instrument.


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## Argus

Klavierspieler said:


> Oh! I see what you're asking now. It's actually the next lower string, so the only note you can't vibrate is the very bottom note of an instrument.


Well, naturally, it is the lowest string that I want to add vibrato to because that note is unplayable anywhere else on the instrument. I don't really understand how doing what Zanralotta said would create vibrato because you're not actually touching the string that's being bowed, but if he's an orchestral player I guess I'll take his word for it. That's why I thought the behind-the-nut technique was the only way possible.


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## Philip

still waiting for that 31-TET composition...


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## Argus

Philip said:


> still waiting for that 31-TET composition...


What started out as 31-TET ended up as extended JI (using Ben Johnston's notation) with over 40 tones to the octave in parts. I say in parts because that's only a few sections of the whole piece, most of it's pretty diatonic and with lots of big open consonances.


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## Zanralotta

Argus said:


> I don't really understand how doing what Zanralotta said would create vibrato because you're not actually touching the string that's being bowed, but if she's an orchestral player I guess I'll take her word for it.


I'm not a pro, just a layman violist who is lucky (and cheap) enough to be hired in a professional project once in a while.


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## tdc

Argus said:


> Well, naturally, it is the lowest string that I want to add vibrato to because that note is unplayable anywhere else on the instrument. I don't really understand how doing what Zanralotta said would create vibrato because you're not actually touching the string that's being bowed, but if he's an orchestral player I guess I'll take his word for it. That's why I thought the behind-the-nut technique was the only way possible.


What Zanralotta suggested does work but its very difficult. (For me anyway) You can do this on guitar as well but it requires quite a powerful vibrato ability, and even then the vibrato will be less pronounced. I have to practically shake my instrument to get this technique to work (For example giving a strong vibrato to the 7th fret of the A string on a guitar after plucking the open Low E string can produce this effect.)


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## Taneyev

Go to violinist.com. They are all students and professionals, and they can answer all your doubts.


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