# Breaking News - Amy Winehouse dead



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Poor troubled girl. Opinions?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Just wrote this in my blog

Can't say I was a big fan of Amy Winehouse, but I thought her music represented a fresh breath in a stale pop music climate. Can't say that I was surprised of the news of her death today at 27, but still I am sad to see someone die this young. She joins the famous club of 27 - after Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison and Kurt Cobain. Rest in peace. The song I selected is the obvious choice for today.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Very sad obviously. I liked her music just fine. A pity that she couldn't get the better of her inner demons. RIP Amy.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

As if she was alive for the last decade.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

I liked her music, very sad.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)




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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sad, yes. Surprising, no.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't follow pop music that much, but I do recognize in her a good dose of talent. Sadly wasted talent. RIP.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Anyway, funny how everyone is suddenly her biggest fan today. Sure, a lot of legit fans are sad, but for the most part? Crocodile tears.

Just a reminder, she was a bad person in ways other than merely being self-destructive:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Anyway, funny how everyone is suddenly her biggest fan today. Sure, a lot of legit fans are sad, but for the most part? Crocodile tears.
> 
> Just a reminder, she was a bad person in ways other than merely being self-destructive:


You don't need to be a 'legit fan' to feel some measure of grief over untimely death, just human.
And I hardly think a drunken song that's clearly not serious, tasteless as it is, makes her a 'bad person'.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I guess she was slightly clever and just original enough to rise above the din of the awful, awful, awful pop music that is everywhere these days. But I cannot go on and on about how talented she was. I guess she wasn't a complete hack either, but I fear she was probably more famous as an addict then as a vocalist/musician.

Having said all of that, I wish her, her family and her fan no ill will. Actually, it is always sad and troubling to see a young life with potential snuffed out by alcohol/drug addiction. But I do not want to get swept up in the mood of the moment and start adulating her unnecessarily just because she has passed on.

Very sad.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Anyway, funny how everyone is suddenly her biggest fan today. Sure, a lot of legit fans are sad, but for the most part? Crocodile tears.


 That's a pretty weird concept. So you're saying that a human being cannot be truly sad about the wasted life and the untimely death of a young person struggling with addiction, unless that human being is a fan of the young person's art, otherwise it's crocodile tears??? So you think that being a fan is required for experiencing compassion??? Now I'm not just sad for her, I'm sad for you too.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I liked her quirky, off-beat style. I never knew what to expect from her (a bit like some of the "best" composers?). I only know her better known songs, but I know someone who is a fan (but not blinded "adulators" like those of some "big" composers beyond reproach, but I won't say who!!!  ). She was very natural, I heard the song "rehab" when I was going through a bit of a tough time back then & it actually kind of gave me a "boost." Kind of a feel of '60's "retro" style with more modern beats. Interesting combination that, quite eclectic she was. Quite talented, imo, but definitely not easy to fit in a "box." Yes, she wasn't just another "plastic" pop-star or icon. Maybe that's some people's "gripe" with her? Anyway, I'm not a reader of gossip mags, so this has come as quite a shock. But then again, I guess the woman sang "I won't go to rehab" so maybe that sadly says what happened? She definitely didn't put up "masks" with her music, something I often can't say about some of our idols of "unquestionable monumental status" here, no matter how "great" they are or were. Basically, I'm saying that song in particular spoke to me in deep ways, similar to many other things in classical, jazz, whatever. Vale Ms Winehouse indeed...


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

If her death is drug related then,I find it hard to be sympathetic' There are many thousands of people who deal with terrible problems without resorting to hard narcotics. Im afraid I think she was severely stupid. 27 years old for god sake! My sympathies go with her family and 'Friends'


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I could never the understand the fuss about her anyway.
Her voice wasn’t pleasant and I always had trouble actually understanding what she was singling about.

Adele was and is far more talented


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Not the most unexpected of deaths, but sad nonetheless.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Badinerie said:


> If her death is drug related then,I find it hard to be sympathetic' There are many thousands of people who deal with terrible problems without resorting to hard narcotics. Im afraid I think she was severely stupid. 27 years old for god sake! My sympathies go with her family and 'Friends'


I don't find it hard to be sympathetic. People aren't perfect after all. Yeah, 27 years old....Robert Johnson, Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain - all death at 27. 27 is for rock what a 9th symphony is for classical.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> I don't find it hard to be sympathetic. People aren't perfect after all. Yeah, 27 years old....Robert Johnson, Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain - all death at 27. 27 is for rock what a 9th symphony is for classical.


Iggy Pop looks in better nick at 64 than Winehouse did at 27. He's a true inspirational example for heroin addicts.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I agree very much with presto and didn't like her stuff at all...nonetheless, seeing anyone go that early is always a tragedy...not that I'm putting her in their musical category but it's so interesting how many we've lost at 27...Jimi Hendrix...Jim Morrison...Brian Jones...Kurt Cobain...Janis Joplin...glad to still be here after having passed that age


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## Vazgen (May 24, 2011)

I'm wondering whether the same people who were sending around videos of Winehouse getting booed for stumbling around a stage in Serbia two weeks ago are the ones now saying they "hope she finds peace."

-Vaz


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

kv466 said:


> I agree very much with presto and didn't like her stuff at all...


Adelle, Amy, Duffy, Joss....all those Brit retro/pop/soul girls are pretty good I think. I like 'em anyway.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Not wishing to derail this topic, but I find it kind of wierd how people judge some substance abusers but not others, depending on the "random" factor of whether they abused illegal or legal drugs. It doesn't matter if you are addicted to one or the other, none of them are good for you in the end, and addiction to any of these things is much like an illness (not necessarily a lifestyle choice). Often, it's linked with things like depression, low self-esteem, inability to deal with certain tragic events in your life & so on. Do we now judge those many returned soldiers from the Second World War for becoming alcoholics, or those of the Vietman war for turning to illegal drugs - in both cases, these men were traumatised by what they had experienced & these drugs became their kind of "therapy." I don't know about Ms Winehouse's life, but is it right to judge her on the basis of her addiction given these issues? Of course, we don't judge the monumental & granitic (beyond the reach of mere mortals?) composers who were heavy alcoholics, like Sibelius or Mussorgsky? What about Beethoven & Bax, who apparently didn't mind a bit of (or a big) tipple? I think Malcolm Arnold was probably judged because he was alcoholic & spent time in hospital for depression, but he started off as a jazz musician, & was a "soft target" for the British classical music establishment (tounges were wagging, maybe more about his personal life, than his music???). This is not right, imo. Not to speak of other non-classical musicians with alcohol & drug issues, eg. Ray Charles, Dean Martin, Elvis Presley, or actor (who also had considerable musical talent) John Belushi (who also died of his addiction, I don't know if people judge him as well?). Of course, Mick Jagger is beyond reproach, because he survived all this & now he's a boring old fart, almost as much as part of "the establishment" as The Queen of England (he's probably almost as rich as her as well).

Anyway, talking to the issues of how Ms Winehouse's addiction problem affected her work, here's a link to an abstract of an academic article discussing how composers' alcohol addiction/abuse affected theirs (Mussorgsky is mentioned, as well as two guys I don't know, Dussek & Mysliveöek) - http://news-business.vlex.com/vid/composers-substance-abusers-74979448


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sid, great post, I don't think it is off-topic at all since we're discussing Winehouse's addiction as well.
I entirely agree with you that addiction is a disease that often people can't control on their own, and for many, not a choice but rather a predisposition that seems to be genetically coded, given studies showing rates of alcoholism in children of alcoholics even when they're raised by a different family. I wouldn't ever say that Ms. Winehouse was a "bad" person because of her addictions, I'd just say a "troubled" person. People tend to take a moral approach to addiction and think it is some sort of moral weakness that the addicts should just shake off and "get a job." It is not so. It's a disease. People afflicted by it need compassion and help, not prejudices and contempt.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Almaviva said:


> Sid, great post, I don't think it is off-topic at all since we're discussing Winehouse's addiction as well.
> I entirely agree with you that addiction is a disease that often people can't control on their own, and for many, not a choice but rather a predisposition that seems to be genetically coded, given studies showing rates of alcoholism in children of alcoholics even when they're raised by a different family. I wouldn't ever say that Ms. Winehouse was a "bad" person because of her addictions, I'd just say a "troubled" person. People tend to take a moral approach to addiction and think it is some sort of moral weakness that the addicts should just shake off and "get a job." It is not so. It's a disease. People afflicted by it need compassion and help, not prejudices and contempt.


I agree with this. She was more troubled than bad. Addiction is a disease. A mental disease. I used to think it was nothing more than "bad behavior" until someone close to me went through (and continues to fight with, with good success so far) addiction. It is indeed a mental disease that needs serious treatment.

The media seemed much more interested in her personal struggles than her music, it seems. I feel she was more famous as a "train wreck," much in the same way Lindsay Lohan is more famous for being a mess than an actress these days. We get to see the worst sides of these people very readily, and our stupefied fascination with how awful their lives are makes them even bigger stars, for all the wrong reasons.

Nobody should die at 27. Whether or not I liked her music is not relevant. It's heartbreaking to see the disease of addiction destroy any life. I wish Winehouse's family the best in this dark time.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Ironic last name, no?


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

She was a force of nature. Her course seemed unperturbable - she was to be destroyed and nothing was getting in the way. It's sad to the extent that she was young, and hindsight begs the question: why didn't somebody take charge?

But it's apparently difficult to intervene with substance abusers. They need to come knocking. She had become the female Shane McGowan a long time ago, more famous for being a shambling mess than for her talent. I don't like the way the media mythologise these things, because i think this kind of death is no more prevalent among rock stars than it is among plumbers, or any other demographic. And rock stars have such resources to help themselves, though they equally have such opportunities for destruction. It's an egotistical nightmare world. It's not only about the music - which is admittedly very slight - but also image and lifestyle, which is berzerk, when you think about it.

Dullards like Liam Gallagher only perpetuate the immature myth that rock musicians are somehow rebellious or dangerous. I'll tell you what's rebellious in todays world: becoming a nun, or a monk. Indulging yourself is the easiest thing in the world to do. Anyhow, gone off topic! I liked Amy's music and it's a pity she couldn't see more clearly - or with some hope. It's loss of hope kills addicts, really...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

This recent article addresses her addiction and attempts made to save her:

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/stopthepresses/392232/could-amy-winehouse-have-been-saved/


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

As far as the above question: "Could Amy Winehouse have been saved?" I'd argue that the answer to that would be "no". Why? Because she didn't want to be saved. If she did, she would have said "I'm an addict, help me" and agreed to treatment. She didn't. 

I've known someone who was self-destructing with various substances and in the end took their own life with a mix of vodka, sleeping pills and a vast amount of morphine. I also had a father who was an alcoholic and pill-addict, who slowly killed himself in front of us. However close you are, however much you tell them you love them and you want to help them, whatever you say or do, nothing will happen until they're ready to help themselves. It's hard to watch someone self-destruct, but you can't help someone who won't help themselves. Sure, send them to rehab and to psychiatrists and so on - but if they're not ready, at best, it will only give them a break. 

As far as Winehouse, I wasn't in a state of shock when I heard she had died. That the Telegraph had published an obituary within about an hour shows that this had already been written and kept on file, as they watched and waited for it to happen. (This is what papers do - for instance, one of the obituaries on Liz Taylor was written by a man who died years before she did. I was at work in a newspaper when Ray Charles died, and the obituary was all ready to go.) Winehouse has been in a downward spiral for years, and what happened to her is a shame. 

It's easy to be an onlooker and say, "Why didn't her friends and family not do anything to help her?" Truth is, people around her can't be blamed. You can be fairly sure they've tried and tried, but found themselves running head-first into a brick wall. Again and again.


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## Vazgen (May 24, 2011)

Operafocus said:


> "Could Amy Winehouse have been saved?" I'd argue that the answer to that would be "no". Why? Because she didn't want to be saved. If she did, she would have said "I'm an addict, help me" and agreed to treatment. She didn't.


I quite agree. The notion that addicts passively observe their destructive behavior from within a cocoon of helplessness is the junkie's insidious attempt to exonerate himself from responsibility. And as steeped as Winehouse was in the mystique of old jazz and soul singers, she'd have had to be wasted indeed to be unaware of how our celebrity culture romanticizes the tragic addict-chanteuse.

-Vaz


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Operafocus said:


> As far as the above question: "Could Amy Winehouse have been saved?" I'd argue that the answer to that would be "no". Why? Because she didn't want to be saved. If she did, she would have said "I'm an addict, help me" and agreed to treatment. She didn't.
> 
> I've known someone who was self-destructing with various substances and in the end took their own life with a mix of vodka, sleeping pills and a vast amount of morphine. I also had a father who was an alcoholic and pill-addict, who slowly killed himself in front of us. However close you are, however much you tell them you love them and you want to help them, whatever you say or do, nothing will happen until they're ready to help themselves. It's hard to watch someone self-destruct, but you can't help someone who won't help themselves. Sure, send them to rehab and to psychiatrists and so on - but if they're not ready, at best, it will only give them a break.
> 
> ...


This is correct. Court-mandated treatment for substance abuse, for instance, is extremely rarely successful. All that is accomplished is to keep the person forcefully clean/sober for a while, but once released, they go on a bee line to the closest liquor store/drug dealer.

Many alcohol and drug abuse treatment centers have decided that they won't accept as patients someone who is forced into treatment (it's just a waste of time and resources). Only voluntary treatment has some chance of success (still, not much better than a 30% recovery rate).

Addiction is a tough disease to treat, with poor prognosis. Like the Yahoo article said, its prognosis is worse than that of many cancers.

Sorry for what happened to your father. Family members are often burdened not only with grief but also with guilt when this kind of thing happens, but like I said, there is no reason to feel guilty. It's a tough disease like other diseases, and to think of it from the biological rather than moral standpoint brings about some comfort.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I mainly agree with what has been said above regarding Ms Winehouse's addiction problems. Thanks Almaviva for posting that article, it went in-depth about her recent life & how family, friends & even those in the music industry like the recording company she was under tried to help her. But the bottom line is, as someone said above & what Amy's father said in that article is that she didn't think she had a problem, she thought she could just use drugs "recreationally" & get on with her life. Having had people in my life with similar issues, I can understand this. The addicted person has to make the decision to quit and take charge of their own life. I'm talking about this through personal experience, I quit smoking cigarettes (tobacco) last year & I'm still working through that, it's the hardest thing I've ever done, & this most successful attempt was the sixth time that actually worked! Ms Winehouse also had stints of being off her drugs of choice, but couldn't get to the level of having a successful attempt, probably for complex reasons (the article mentions that breaking up with her boyfreind of many years was a big "minus," but a lot of that stemmed from the man's inability to cope with her problems, so it's a "chicken & egg" scenario).

I also can see how the media saw this coming (eg. preparation of an obituary well in advance of her death). This is sad, but understandable, that's how the media works. But I remember the day she died last week, there was a banner on one of the major CD & other merchandise selling websites (where I don't go to shop, just copy/past album covers for use here on TC) having a blurb about her death & then links to albums which could be purchased. I found this to be of quite poor taste to say the least, very cynical, it's like crocodile tears. Just as bad as something like selling fragments of the destroyed Berlin Wall to tourists as souvenirs after it was pulled down & East Germany was history. How tasteless, to "cash in" on a thing that had caused millions misery, spoke to a divided world, and a wall that hundreds had tried to climb and escape over & got shot by the border guards. Yes, these guys want to just "cash in" on this tragedy! Making a buck is the most important thing, isn't it???...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Too true, Sid. Thus is our world. Greed, profit, the all-powerful money...


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## rojo (May 26, 2006)

^ Can't disagree with that.

It's a damn shame she died. I enjoyed what I had heard of her music a couple of years ago. I will wait to hear more information before doing one iota of speculation. Toxicology results take about a month, apparently.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> Adelle, Amy, Duffy, Joss....all those Brit retro/pop/soul girls are pretty good I think. I like 'em anyway.


This reached number 3 in your charts:






I'd take her over any of those Brit ladies.

I don't like Winehouse's music but I can appreciate she had a great voice and was a talented singer, but she only released 2 albums in 8 years. That's pretty paltry. Compare it to other young deaths, say, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or any number of those jazz players from the 50's when it was almost de rigueur to be a junkie, and it's an insignificant amount of output. Can we expect a slew of bootlegs and unreleased material surfacing in the years to come?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Recently broken news - it was the booze that killed Amy, not illegal drugs. More info in this link -
Amy Winehouse died from too much alcohol


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

You mean, I shouldn't drink as much as I do? It is not safe for the body?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Who's Amy Winehouse? Seriously, I had to Google this name.


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