# The Great Might-Have-Beens Composers who Passed on too Soon.



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Well hello, hello, hello,

Yesterday I was playing the chamber works of *Guillaume Lekeu (1870-1894)*, namely his Piano Trio and his Piano Quartet, the latter which was left unfinished (d'Indy prepared it for its premiere), and find his music arresting upon rehearing. His Trio is captivating stuff, with the beginning serious, searching a la "Tristan et Isode" (what French composer were not swayed by Wagner at that time, other than, perhaps Franck?). But the work is moving and ambitious, both in terms of expression & structure. The Quartet has many good things to say, and hinted of what may become of this composer had he lived (much)longer.

Of course Mozart, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Gershwin, Chopin, Mahler, Joplin, and arguably Scriabin, Mussorgsky, Bizet, as well as Enrique Granados, had already achieved greatness despite dying prematurely. But many others were not so fortunate due to an array of factors and circumstances (war, illnesses, poverty, politics, etc.). I'm thinking of people like,

*Vasily Kalinnikov (1866-1901)*: who struggled mightily to even get his music published (Rachmaninoff helped him with that by introducing his works to Jurgensen). His First Symphony is masterful, the Second folksy and colorful. His music is not the most original (think Borodin, Balakirev), but there's enough individualism that had a chance to blossom into something perhaps greater had he lived.

*Ernest Chausson (1855-1899)*: Who was extremely well read and versatile, the quality and originality of his compositions are consistently high. He absorbed Wagner and Franck no doubt, but even his stronger works shows much individuality.

*Zdeněk Fibich (1850-1900)*: A crucial link between Smetana & the upcoming composers of the New Czech School (Suk, Novak, Ostrcil), his operas show a huge influence of Wagner, yet intermingled with Czech legends that give his music a unique yet striking stamp.

*Anton Arensky (1861-1906)*: Polished and cosmopolitan a la Tchaikovsky, there's the urbanity and gracefulness in his writing that did Tchaikovsky proud (his piano music is delicious). As his First Symphony demonstrates, he was no stranger to the music of the Russian Five, but he was very much in the Russian Silver Age.

*William Baines (1899-1922)*: English composer who left us achingly beautiful piano works (recorded by Eric Parkin and is a must hear). Not very much into the Impressionism of the time unlike, say, Cyril Scott, but like John Ireland, his music is hauntingly melancholic and longing.

*George Butterworth (1885-1916)*: Through his enchanting songs and various orchestral works, George showed us the promised so unfulfilled due to the war (a composer with a special gift commented Carlos Kleiber). His music is distinctive, sensitive, and arrestingly subtle.

*Albéric Magnard (1865-1914)*: His opera "Guercoeur" is to my mind a masterpiece, which is very well wrought dramatically for both voices and orchestra, profoundly lyrical, and richly scored that often reveals its roots in d'Indy (Magnard's teacher) and in Wagner. His symphonies are (a bit) harder to take, but his contribution to French music is nothing less than sizeable.

*Mieczysław Karłowicz (1876-1909)*: On the track to becoming Poland's most significant composer after Chopin before succumbing to injuries due to an avalanche. His music shows his awareness to that of Tchaikovsky, Strauss, Wagner, and Grieg early on. But his personal language, orchestration, and harmony began to emerge in their own uniqueness by the time he composed "Slanislaw and Anna Oswiecim" (1907).

*Cecil Coles (1888-1918)*: Scottish composer who demonstrated his knack for dramatic expression and scene painting that is quite his own. And the beauty and quality in the music is hardly short of amazing given that much of it was written in the trenches.

*Toivo Kuula (1883-1918)*: A pupil of Sibelius, Kuula was able to achieve some arresting orchestral music he drew heavily from folk legends and Ostrobothnian folksong. The "'The Sea-bathing Nymphs" is spellbinding.

*Peteris Barisons (1904-1947)*: A very obscured Latvian composer whose Second Symphony (1939) ought to be much better known. He was no stranger to Strauss, but what a unique, bold voice he developed in this striking work. His symphonic poem "Legend" is very appealing in its own right. Here's an excellent recording of the symphony available here (



 & 



).

*Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (1875-1912)*: Sometimes called "The African Mahler", he achieved noticed notice and garnered advocacy by no less the figures like Stanford and Elgar (Stanford went so far as to promote his Clarinet Quintet to Joachim, who played it with is colleagues in 1897). He was even received by President Theodore Roosevelt in 1904 at the White House. His works show some influences of Dvorak and Brahms, but as his Symphonic Variations on an African Air demonstrates, Coleridge-Taylor was capable to achieving new heights in communicative utterance (what a hell of a coda). I don't think he quite achieved the greatness he was aiming for (he was over-worked), but he was on his way before his young life was cut short due to pneumonia.

Well, that should do it. Please, what's your take?
:tiphat:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Nice overview. One name certainly missing is *Hans Rott* (1858 - 1884).


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Obviously there are no early deaths that resulted in as great of a loss to classical music as that of Mozart and Schubert. As for potential "might have beens" the first name that comes to my mind in Pergolesi.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

It might also be of interest to note that the majority of the composers suggested as having died too young outlived both Schubert and Mozart. I would take another decade for either over another half-century for the whole list.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Juan Cristobal Arriaga, sometimes known as the Spanish Mozart. I recommend his two Symphonies and his String Quartet.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> It might also be of interest to note that the majority of the composers suggested as having died too young outlived both Schubert and Mozart. I would take another decade for either over another half-century for the whole list.


I agree. Most Creative Artists do their best work in their younger years. Many on your list made it to at least 40, which for a creative Artist, imo, is a full lifespan. I think limiting this to Composers that died younger than Mozart might be more meaningful.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Triplets said:


> I agree. Most Creative Artists do their best work in their younger years. Many on your list made it to at least 40, which for a creative Artist, imo, is a full lifespan. I think limiting this to Composers that died younger than Mozart might be more meaningful.


And yet many creative artists wrote/composed better (even great) works as they aged (in part to coincide with musical development (or experimentation), development of techniques and handling of resources, advancement in idioms, etc.). Scriabin, Bax, Tchaikovsky, Glazunov, Myaskovsky, Nielsen come to mind. And also, a full life-span is relative, and differs from one artist to the next. Look at Bruckner. He started late, and yet achieved greatness by the time he reached sixty (with the premiere of his Seventh Symphony no less). Again, external as well as internal factors and circumstances must be taken into account. Shostakovich is an interesting case study, because he achieved greatness with his First Symphony by the time he was around 16, but the quality of his music was up and down due to Soviet Nomenklatura policies and enforcement of the 1920s and long afterwards (to his death in fact).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Second Juan Arriaga, well known for his symphony and three excellent quartets. Never made it to 20 years old.

Also let's not forget Charles Tomlinson Griffes, a talented and original American composer, dead of influenza in New York City in 1920, age 35.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Triplets said:


> Most Creative Artists do their best work in their younger years. Many on your list made it to at least 40, which for a creative Artist, imo, is a full lifespan.


Composers aren't mathematicians or chess players. Think Bach, Handel, Haydn, and Beethoven, without going past that point in history...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

One I feel sorry for is the Berliner 'spieloper' composer Albert Lortzing (1801-1851). 

In his final years he was unable to secure a post as Kappellmeister with any of the leading Austro-German theatres despite most of his previous works being (on the whole) well-received and his generally high standing with the public - what did for him was being previously fired from two houses for disputes with management, although it's said he was more popular with the staff, musicians and singers who worked for him. Already in debt, this led to him being weighed down with the stress of trying to provide for his family (he had to resort to acting), and he suffered a fatal stroke at the age of 49 on the same night his final work was to be premiered. 

He was posthumously acknowledged as having an influence on the subsequent generation of Austro-German composers who helped to establish operetta in the later half of the 19th. c.

(Thanks to Wiki and New Penguin Opera Guide for sources)


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Second Juan Arriaga, well known for his symphony and three excellent quartets. Never made it to 20 years old.
> 
> Also let's not forget Charles Tomlinson Griffes, a talented and original American composer, dead of influenza in New York City in 1920, age 35.


 Has anyone mentioned Gershwin? He died pretty young as well.


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## CBD (Nov 11, 2013)

Alexei Stanchinsky (1888 - 1914):


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Composers aren't mathematicians or chess players. Think Bach, Handel, Haydn, and Beethoven, without going past that point in history...


There will always be outliers, who have done their greatest stuff as they enter ripe maturity, but I think most artists hit their peaks in their younger years. Think, Richard Strauss, Rachmaninov...yes, they produced some great stuff at the end of their careers, but for the last several decades of their lives they were largely spent forces.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Definitely Hans Rott - Mahler called him the “inventor of the modern symphony as I understand it.” 
Also George Butterworth.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

CBD said:


> Alexei Stanchinsky (1888 - 1914)


His name completely escaped me (how I wonder).


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## pianississimo (Nov 24, 2014)

Julian Scriabin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Scriabin Tragically young when he died.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

One I only heard about recently was Walter Leigh (1905-1942) who was killed in action in World War II. He has a very interesting harpsichord concertino.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Elliott Carter - to think what he might have achieved if he had lived 20 more years...

A world record!


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Viktor Ullmann (1898-1944) was killed in the gas chambers in the camp at Auschwitz.

Here's a recent album of his piano music


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Schubert. Schubert. Schubert.

Yet, like scratchgolf has said, his music would have been different if he weren't so ill. Not a pleasant thought, so hooray for syphilis!

Oh yeah, mozart. Perhaps he would have surpassed Haydn's symphony count, but probably not.

Edit: As GreenMamba said below. These two definitely can't be classified as "might-have-beens".


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Schubert. Schubert. Schubert.
> 
> Yet, like scratchgolf has said, his music would have been different if he weren't so ill. Not a pleasant thought, so hooray for syphilis!
> 
> Oh yeah, mozart. Perhaps he would have surpassed Haydn's symphony count, but probably not.


Still, neither can be characterized as a might-have-been.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

GioCar said:


> Viktor Ullmann (1898-1944) was killed in the gas chambers in the camp at Auschwitz.
> 
> Here's a recent album of his piano music


Yes, an interesting composer - I also recommend his opera Der Kaiser von Atlantis, which, had he lived, probably would have got him into trouble whatever his ethnic background:


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

*Lili Boulanger*


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2015)

Both Gerard Grisey and Claude Vivier should still be with us


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

omega said:


> *Lili Boulanger*


Her early death is so frustrating, the quality of her work is really impressive considering she was 24 when she died. She had the potential to be the first great female composer imho.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Piwikiwi said:


> Her early death is so frustrating, the quality of her work is really impressive considering she was 24 when she died. She had the potential to be the first great female composer imho.


I think that honor goes to Hildegard von Bingen...


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Der Leiermann said:


> I think that honor goes to Hildegard von Bingen...


Haha, I actually thought about her while writing that post but I chose to ignore it:')


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2015)

Greatest female composer since Hildegard then.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Barbara Strozzi?? (1619-1697)


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I know this isn't in the spirit of the OP but George Getshwin only lived 38 years. A real tragedy to think what we've missed from his early departure.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Dora Pejačević (1885-1923)


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

omega said:


> *Lili Boulanger*


I'm glad someone mentioned Lili.

Even from her early works, I sense a very bold musical personality - music with strong lines, and sense of drama. Perhaps, something more like the French Bartok rather than another Impressionist once she had matured musically.

Her music, as little of it as there is, truly speaks to me. She is definitely my greatest "What if?" in music.


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Schubert. Schubert. Schubert.
> 
> Yet, like scratchgolf has said, his music would have been different if he weren't so ill. Not a pleasant thought, so hooray for syphilis!
> 
> ...


I'd like to think that Schubert, if given a couple more decades, would have written a whole bunch of enjoyable concertos. At least in that genre, he's a tragic might-have-been.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

TresPicos said:


> I'd like to think that Schubert, if given a couple more decades, would have written a whole bunch of enjoyable concertos. At least in that genre, he's a tragic might-have-been.


IMHO there's not enough memorable, lyrical Romantic era non-piano concertos that are actually musically good and not just technically impressive. I'd imagine Schubert's concertos would fit that description if they existed.


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

I can't really think of Schubert as a might have been. I mean, it's sad he died so young, but it's a stretch to say we never got to see any mature musical efforts from him.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Just came across this interesting fact in the booklet that came with the Marc Minkowski recordings of Schubert's symphonies:

"At the age when Schubert wrote the prodigious monument that is the "Great C-Major" Symphony Beethoven was still struggling with his first symphony." 

There is no greater loss than Schubert and Mozart.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd like to think that Schubert, if given a couple more decades, would have written a whole bunch of enjoyable concertos. At least in that genre, he's a tragic might-have-been.

Schubert was just coming into his own in the genre of the symphony. I certainly would have loved to have had more of them. Considering his lieder, his late symphonies, and his choral works it is almost a given that he would have eventually become the next great opera composer.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

piwikiwi- Her early death is so frustrating, the quality of her work is really impressive considering she was 24 when she died. She had the potential to be the first great female composer imho.

Der Leiermann- I think that honor goes to Hildegard von Bingen...

nathanb- Greatest female composer since Hildegard then.

manyene- Barbara Strozzi?? (1619-1697)

Chiara Magdalena (Margarita) Cozzolani (27 November 1602 - ca. 1676-1678):

http://music.cozzolani.com/


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Fagotterdammerung said:


> I can't really think of Schubert as a might have been. I mean, it's sad he died so young, but it's a stretch to say we never got to see any mature musical efforts from him.


Definitely, you and GreenMamba have both rightfully said that Schubert can't even almost be considered a "Might-Have-Been", that's not in question! 

Yet, when I hear such phrases as, "what might have been" and "died too young or too soon". The name Schubert inevitably comes to mind. I just can't help it. It boggles my mind the amount of great music he would have written. I practically hero worship the guy, he makes up a part of my own holy trinity of favorite composers. :angel:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Even his uneven operas with their mediocre (or worse) librettos have any number of moments of beautiful music.


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## Johannes V (Dec 2, 2014)

I would add Andre Mathieu.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I wish I could have seen what Butterworth would have written...


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2015)

I know he ain't gone, but it would've been nice if Boulez would've pulled a Carter a kept churnin' it out.

And now I'm hearing that Cerha is only a year behind Boulez!

Moral of the story: Carter is the ideal, the model, the pinnacle. Compose past 100 or bust.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Has anyone mention Charles Tomlinson Griffes (1884-1920)?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I am tempted to start a thread about composers who didn't die soon enough ... but I am afraid of what it might unleash!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Becca said:


> I am tempted to start a thread about composers who didn't die soon enough ... but I am afraid of what it might unleash!


Believe Glen Gould said just that about Mozart. A very uncharitable person. Gould that is, not Mozart.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dim7 said:


> IMHO there's not enough memorable, lyrical Romantic era non-piano concertos that are actually musically good and not just technically impressive. I'd imagine Schubert's concertos would fit that description if they existed.


Schubert was simply not at all interested in that more bravura display vehicle for the virtuosi which had come to be de rigeur in the romantic era. _Perhaps,_ if a commission had come along for some concertante works vs. "concerto," we might have had something, but none of his basic impulses seem to point to any interest in the "big role, protagonist hero vs. the orchestra" kind of stuff.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Schubert was simply not at all interested in that more bravura display vehicle for the virtuosi which had come to be de rigeur in the romantic era. _Perhaps,_ if a commission had come along for some concertante works vs. "concerto," we might have had something, but none of his basic impulses seem to point to any interest in the "big role, protagonist hero vs. the orchestra" kind of stuff.


Yes, certainly Schubert didn't fit the virtuoso/composer role. He was no Mozart or Beethoven, maybe more like Haydn in that respect. A juicy commission might have interested him of course...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Yes, certainly Schubert didn't fit the virtuoso/composer role. He was no Mozart or Beethoven, maybe more like Haydn in that respect. A juicy commission might have interested him of course...


So many of the Mozart later piano concerti are basically symphonic works with piano obbligato, that if that aesthetic had held over into the not so much later era with its taste for the virtuoso as protagonist hero, or if he had gotten a commission more specifically for a work of that concertante nature, well... maybe then.


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