# Piano Concertos Ranked by Difficulty



## chu42

I don't have real playing experience with a large amount of the pieces here so I would really appreciate feedback on placement. Even if you don't like lists like these I hope you can explore some new repertoire since I've tried to include many lesser-known concertos 

Factors taken into account include technical difficulty, staminal difficulty, interpretative difficulty, difficulty of synchronization with ensemble, and it is vaguely sorted by difficulty within their classes from top to bottom.

*Extraordinarily Difficult
*Sorabji Concerto per suonare da me solo
Sorabji Concertos
Busoni Concerto
Messiaen Des Canyons aux Étoiles
Barber Concerto
Alkan Solo Concerto
Carter Concerto
Ives Emerson Concerto
Ginastera Concerto No.1
Rautavaara Concerto No.1
Lutoslawski Concerto
Ligeti Concerto
Rautavaara Concerto No.2
Corigliano Concerto
Cage Concert for Piano and Orchestra

*Ridiculously Difficult:
*Ginastera Concerto No.2
Bartok Concerto No. 2
Prokofiev Concerto No.2
Xenakis Palimpsest
Babbitt Concerto
Bartok Concerto No.1
Messiaen Oiseaux Exotiques
Bortkiewicz Concerto No.2
Strauss Burlesque
Rachmaninov Concerto No.3
Busoni Indian Fantasy
Tveitt Aurora Borealis
Scriabin Prometheus or the Poem of Fire
Perle Piano Concerto No. 1
Brahms Concerto No.2
Korngold Left Hand Concerto
Perle Piano Concerto No. 2
Rozycki Concerto No.1
Kapustin Concerto No.6
Ravel Left Hand Concerto

*Extremely Difficult:
*Tchaikovsky Concerto No.1
Marx Concerto
Atterberg Concerto
Ireland Concerto
Kapustin Concerto No.5
Rachmaninov Concerto No.1
Lyapunov Concerto No.1
Rubinstein Piano Concertos
Penderecki Concerto
Lyapunov Concerto No.2
Medtner Concerto No.1
Medtner Concerto No.3
Bortkiewicz Concerto No.3
Medtner Concerto No.2
Bliss Piano Concerto
Brahms Concerto No.1
Rachmaninov Concerto No. 4
Schoenberg Concerto
Liebermann Concerto No.2
Liebermann Piano Concerto No.1
Vaughan-Williams Concerto
Liszt Totentanz
Bortkiewicz Concerto No.1
Moszkowski Piano Concerto No.2

*Very Difficult
*Tchaikovsky Concerto No.2
Rimsky-Korsakov Concerto 
Ravel Concerto in G
Tchaikovsky Concerto No.3
Prokofiev Concerto No.3
Chen Er Huang 
Macdowell Piano Concerto No.1
Macdowell Piano Concerto No.2
Rachmaninov Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini
Kapustin Concerto No.4
Schnittke Piano Concerto
Jaëll Concerto No.1
Stravinsky Concerto for Piano and Winds
Liszt Concerto No.2
Debussy Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra
Rautavaara Concerto No.3
Prokofiev Concerto No. 4
Scriabin Concerto
Xinghai Yellow River Concerto
Rachmaninov Concerto No.2
Stenhammar Piano Concerto
Franck Variations
Liszt Concerto No.1
Chopin Concerto No.2
Bronsart Concerto
Chopin Concerto No.1
Kapustin Concerto No.3
Reinecke Concerto No.1
Moszkowski Piano Concerto No.1
Britten Diversions for Piano Left Hand and Orchestra
Reinecke Concerto No.2
Prokofiev Concerto No. 5
Khachaturian Piano Concerto
Bartok Concerto No.3
Alkan 3 Concerti da Camera 
Balakirev Piano Concerto
Schumann Concerto in A Minor

*Difficult:
*Saint-Saens Concerto No.3
Beethoven Concerto No.4
Hummel Concerto No.2
Kapustin Concerto No.2
Adams Century Rolls
Beethoven Concerto No.5
Poulenc Concerto
Saint-Saens Concerto No. 2
Mendelssohn Concerto No.2
Moscheles Concertos
Saint-Saens Concerto No.5
Massanet Concerto
Dvorak Piano Concerto
Saint-Saens Concerto No.4
Beethoven Concerto No.3
Mozart Concerto No.20
Mendelssohn Piano Concerto
Weber Konzertstück for Piano and Orchestra
Arensky Concerto
Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
Prokofiev Concerto No.1
Chopin Andante Spinato et Grande Polonaise Brillante
Gershwin Concerto in F
Grieg Concerto
Mozart Concerto No.27
Mozart Concerto No.15
Mozart Concerto No.17
Busoni Early Concerto
Mozart Concerto No.22
Mozart Concerto No.25
Janacek Concertino
Yoshimatsu Memo Flora
George Gershwin Variations on the theme of "I Got Rhythm"
Shostakovich Concerto No.1

*Less Difficult:
*Shostakovich Concerto No.2
Ustvolskaya Concerto
Nyman "The Piano Concerto"
Scott Early One Morning
Mozart Concerto No.21
Mozart Concerto No.23
Mozart Concerto No.16
Mozart Concerto No.26
Mozart Concerto No.19
Haydn Concerto No.11
Beethoven Concerto No. 2
Kabalevsky Piano Concerto No.2
Emerson Piano Concerto No.1
Kabalevsky Piano Concerto No.1
Beethoven Concerto No. 1
Kabalevsky Piano Concerto No.3


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## 20centrfuge

This list is amazing! Thank you so much for it. Although music isn't primarily liked based on it's difficulty, it is very interesting to note the works that require extra dedication and skill.


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## mikeh375

Great list, makes me realise how much music I don't know.
Perhaps the Britten PC should be added...very to extremely difficult perhaps, (well it was written by one of the 20thC's greatest pianists).


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## flamencosketches

I am surprised you put the Dvorak so low. Isn't it supposed to be monstrously difficult to play?


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## starthrower

Could the idea that some of these are "ridiculously difficult" be chalked up to the fact that some composers aren't very good at writing for the piano? Or that some of them are pianists who compose around their own personal idiosyncrasies? I remember Ligeti mentioning four composers who really knew how to write for the piano. I think he mentioned Scarlatti, Debussy, Chopin, and maybe Bach. But I'm not sure about the last one?


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## ahinton

starthrower said:


> Could the idea that some of these are "ridiculously difficult" be chalked up to the fact that some composers aren't very good at writing for the piano? Or that some of them are pianists who compose around their own personal idiosyncrasies? I remember Ligeti mentioning four composers who really knew how to write for the piano. I think he mentioned Scarlatti, Debussy, Chopin, and maybe Bach. But I'm not sure about the last one?


Were that the case, Sorabji, Alkan, Lutosławski and, most especially, Busoni, wouldn't be in that part of the list?!


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## pianozach

A lot of Composers I'm not familiar with on this list.

I've played a couple *Mozart* concertos.

But when people are talking difficult-to-play concertos the first name usually mentioned is *Rachmaninov*.


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## flamencosketches

ahinton said:


> Were that the case, Sorabji, Alkan, Lutosławski and, most especially, Busoni, wouldn't be in that part of the list?!


Is Lutosławski a particularly idiomatic piano composer? I wonder why he didn't write more piano music.


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## chu42

flamencosketches said:


> I am surprised you put the Dvorak so low. Isn't it supposed to be monstrously difficult to play?


According to Leslie Howard, yes.

However I took it upon to look through the score and learn much of the piece-it is not extremely difficult at all and most of the writing is very similar to Beethoven's concerti.

Perhaps Howard, being a Liszt specialist, found trouble with the more classically oriented writing.


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## Roger Knox

I think the four concertos of F.X. Scharwenka belong on this list. They are attractive to listen to yet extremely challenging for the pianist -- Scharwenka wrote them for himself to perform. Steven Hough's recording of Nos. 1 and 4 is superb. In your very fine list, which seems well-prepared to me, Scharwenka's concertos would probably belong in your first three categories.


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## DavidA

Th3 Henselt is usually mentioned as fiendishly difficult although it doesn’t sound it.it apparently has long stretches as the composer had a very long stretch himself. Of course the art of writing a virtuoso concerto is that it sounds difficult as well as being difficult and something like the Rachmaninov 3 or the Tchaikovsky does just that. Always seems to be pretty pointless to write a very difficult work which doesn’t sound difficult and doesn’t take the audience’s breath away. Alkan is apparently fiendishly difficult but doesn’t sound it which is why pianists avoid it.


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## DavidA

pianozach said:


> A lot of Composers I'm not familiar with on this list.
> 
> *I've played a couple Mozart concertos.*
> 
> But when people are talking difficult-to-play concertos the first name usually mentioned is *Rachmaninov*.


Of course Mozart is easy to play badly and very difficult to play well. As Schnabel said, " The sonatas of Mozart are unique; they are too easy for children, and too difficult for artists." ...


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## Joachim Raff

Nice list but what about Victor Bendix Piano Concerto? One of the best, but not sure how difficult it is to play.


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## flamencosketches

I just finished listening to the Prokofiev 2 concerto and wanted to see where you had ranked it, as to my ears it sounded ridiculously, fiendishly difficult. There is this part:










... where I wondered how on earth he expected anyone to play that. I question whether he could even play it himself. Anyway, the biggest challenge, I expect, would be endurance. The first movement cadenza alone is just relentless. It doesn't let up for a second. Anyway, in addition to being insanely difficult, it's a beautiful, uniquely dark work. I gained a lot of respect for Prokofiev when I heard it for the first time.

I see you've ranked Barber (among others) in a tier above this one. Really, the Barber? It's a beautiful concerto, but it doesn't sound more difficult than the Prokofiev 2, to my ears anyway.


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## DavidA

flamencosketches said:


> I just finished listening to the Prokofiev 2 concerto and wanted to see where you had ranked it, as to my ears it sounded ridiculously, fiendishly difficult. There is this part:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... where I wondered how on earth he expected anyone to play that. I question whether he could even play it himself. Anyway, the biggest challenge, I expect, would be endurance. The first movement cadenza alone is just relentless. It doesn't let up for a second. Anyway, in addition to being insanely difficult, it's a beautiful, uniquely dark work. I gained a lot of respect for Prokofiev when I heard it for the first time.
> 
> I see you've ranked Barber (among others) in a tier above this one. Really, the Barber? It's a beautiful concerto, but it doesn't sound more difficult than the Prokofiev 2, to my ears anyway.


Interesting then that a 15-year-old girl knocked it off in the BBC Young musician of the year. I wonder if Prokofiev ever figured that a teenager not yet doing her GCSEs would've done it. Just shows the incredible standard among young musicians today


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## pianozach

flamencosketches said:


> I just finished listening to the Prokofiev 2 concerto and wanted to see where you had ranked it, as to my ears it sounded ridiculously, fiendishly difficult. There is this part:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... where I wondered how on earth he expected anyone to play that. I question whether he could even play it himself. Anyway, the biggest challenge, I expect, would be endurance. The first movement cadenza alone is just relentless. It doesn't let up for a second. Anyway, in addition to being insanely difficult, it's a beautiful, uniquely dark work. I gained a lot of respect for Prokofiev when I heard it for the first time.
> 
> I see you've ranked Barber (among others) in a tier above this one. Really, the Barber? It's a beautiful concerto, but it doesn't sound more difficult than the Prokofiev 2, to my ears anyway.


As a pianist, I can attest that THAT passage _looks_ actually fairly easy to play, although a fast tempo WOULD make it challenging.

The middle staff seems to be an editorial choice, and this could easily be notated on two staves.

The left hand is merely a D major arpeggio and lydian scale [#4th tone] (except for the beginning low E bass note, and the F natural passing tone at the end).

The right hand is also D lydian scales and arpeggios, except for the last quarter note value of the measure, where, again, there's the F natural [although notated this time as an E#].

The passage is monorhythmic, so that's easily worked out. Yeah, 32nd notes, but for the most part they're all predictable. Except that there's a C natural (instead of a C#) in the second set of 32 notes, although I suspect that might actually be a "typo".

Those two seemingly random quarter notes in the middle staff at the end of the measure are merely octave doublings of the notes on the top staff, although the first is an octave above, while the last is an octave below. Reaching these at this speed would probably require some rubato at those points, but that would likely be acceptable.

As you mentioned though, endurance is likely the real issue here. I've not tried to play this, nor am I sure I've ever spent any time seriously listening to this concerto, but I HAVE played the 3rd movement of *Beethoven*'s *Moonlight Sonata*. It, too, has individual passages that seem daunting, but are, in reality, merely a bit 'challenging'. I can play them . . . BUT . . . after several pages of these these challenging sections, it becomes more of a marathon, and you can get worn out before you get to the last several pages.


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## Joachim Raff

Surely it becomes a technical exercise more than a musical one when the score is so intense?


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## pianozach

Joachim Raff said:


> Surely it becomes a technical exercise more than a musical one when the score is so intense?


That IS the challenge. It IS musical, and when playing a virtuoso piece of this level, you not only must have the technical prowess to simply PLAY it, but you have to make it sound effortless AND musical simultaneously.

This piece WILL sound like an etude if you cannot do all this. It may still sound impressive, and that's how I used to do so well at Bach Festival competitions as a teen - flash, speed, passion, and fire, but lacking in nuance and subtlety. Some subito dynamics would fool the judges every time.

I'd also kick a$$ with Mozart as well - I would find every bit of musical humor in the sonatas and concertos and freakin' MILK IT like a scenery chewer.

But that's more difficult to pull off with Romantic-era material - the super-advanced stuff requires far more maturity and focus IMO.

But that's just MY wheelhouse. There are plenty of pianists that have their own areas of success and challenges.


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## DavidA

pianozach said:


> As you mentioned though, endurance is likely the real issue here. I've not tried to play this, nor am I sure I've ever spent any time seriously listening to this concerto, but I HAVE played the 3rd movement of *Beethoven*'s *Moonlight Sonata*. It, too, has individual passages that seem daunting, but are, in reality, merely a bit 'challenging'. I can play them . . . BUT . . . after several pages of these these challenging sections, it becomes more of a marathon, and you can get worn out before you get to the last several pages.


The Moonlight sonata doesn't provide serious challenges of a virtuoso nature I wouldn't have thought. My wife played it as a teenager in public.


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## pianozach

DavidA said:


> The Moonlight sonata doesn't provide serious challenges of a virtuoso nature I wouldn't have thought. My wife played it as a teenager in public.


Um, . . . you may be thinking of _only_ the _*1st movement*_ of the *Moonlight Sonata* [Actually the Piano Sonata No.14 _"Quasi Una Fantasia"_ Opus 27 No.2]. (Don't be embarassed, it's a common misconception that the 1st movement is the whole thing.) That's the placid, calm, reflective, moody movement. But there are three movements to this sonata, per the custom of the day.

The *second movement* _'presto agitato'_ is sort of like "filler". Inconsequential. A brief respite between the moodiness of the 1st and the _stürm und drang_ of the 3rd. Flippant, nonchalant. _Deceptive . . ._ a false throwback to a simpler time.

The *third movement* is like a storm trying to blow your house down. It drops on you like a bomb exploding, blowing the 2nd movement out of the water. It is unrelenting, going on for over six minutes of unforgiving patterns in both hands.

Time for you to have a listen to *the whole thing . . . . *, in context. You'll absolutely love it.


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## flamencosketches

pianozach said:


> Um, . . . you may be thinking of _only_ the _*1st movement*_ of the *Moonlight Sonata* [Actually the Piano Sonata No.14 _"Quasi Una Fantasia"_ Opus 27 No.2]. (Don't be embarassed, it's a common misconception that the 1st movement is the whole thing.) That's the placid, calm, reflective, moody movement. But there are three movements to this sonata, per the custom of the day.
> 
> The *second movement* _'presto agitato'_ is sort of like "filler". Inconsequential. A brief respite between the moodiness of the 1st and the _stürm und drang_ of the 3rd. Flippant, nonchalant. _Deceptive . . ._ a false throwback to a simpler time.
> 
> The *third movement* is like a storm trying to blow your house down. It drops on you like a bomb exploding, blowing the 2nd movement out of the water. It is unrelenting, going on for over six minutes of unforgiving patterns in both hands.
> 
> Time for you to have a listen to *the whole thing . . . . *, in context. You'll absolutely love it.


David is an older guy, has been listening to classical music for decades, and has been a contributor here for the better part of a decade, and his avatar is a picture of Beethoven. He certainly knows that the Moonlight Sonata has three movements, and I'm sure he was factoring in all three when he wrote that. I initially read your post as very condescending but it appears your heart was in the right place.

Anyway, I would like to echo his sentiment: the Moonlight Sonata doesn't provide any serious challenges of a virtuoso nature, in any of the three movements. It's fast, sure, but it's all scales and arpeggios. I'm sure I could learn it myself with my modest skills within the space of a few months.

Also, on an unrelated note, I disagree with your flippant dismissal of the second movement, it's my favorite of the three!


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## chu42

I completely agree, the difficulty of the third movement is rather overstated. It's not an easy piece but nowhere near Beethoven at his hardest.


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## chu42

DavidA said:


> Th3 Henselt is usually mentioned as fiendishly difficult although it doesn't sound it.it apparently has long stretches as the composer had a very long stretch himself. Of course the art of writing a virtuoso concerto is that it sounds difficult as well as being difficult and something like the Rachmaninov 3 or the Tchaikovsky does just that. Always seems to be pretty pointless to write a very difficult work which doesn't sound difficult and doesn't take the audience's breath away. Alkan is apparently fiendishly difficult but doesn't sound it which is why pianists avoid it.


The Alkan Concerto sounds plenty difficult to me. It has many flamboyant and sparkling passages, often heavily wrought with accidentals. I suspect people don't learn it as often because it is so long (nearly an hour) and contains far too many double notes and octaves to comfortably play in one sitting.

A truly difficult concerto that has almost no virtuosic writing in it whatsoever would have to be the Brahms' First. Very thin and Beethovenian writing but immensely awkward to play, far more difficult than the Tchaikovsky or Liszt concerti that sound much harder. I don't think it is pointless to be difficult without the virtuoso element if the flamboyance is replaced with sheer beauty, like in the Brahms concerto.



Roger Knox said:


> I think the four concertos of F.X. Scharwenka belong on this list. They are attractive to listen to yet extremely challenging for the pianist -- Scharwenka wrote them for himself to perform. Steven Hough's recording of Nos. 1 and 4 is superb. In your very fine list, which seems well-prepared to me, Scharwenka's concertos would probably belong in your first three categories.


I have indeed listened to the Scharwenka concerti. They are quite beautiful and look fairly difficult, but I am not sure where to put it quite yet. Most likely in the third category.


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## chu42

flamencosketches said:


> I see you've ranked Barber (among others) in a tier above this one. Really, the Barber? It's a beautiful concerto, but it doesn't sound more difficult than the Prokofiev 2, to my ears anyway.


Both are extremely difficult and I would not be surprised if they are actually closer in difficulty than I originally presumed. However from what I have played from it, it is more awkward than the Prokofiev- which, despite it's huge flourishes is actually mostly pianistic. The Barber is also a less tonal which probably makes it harder to learn and memorize.

Additionally, it is reported that Horowitz considered the Barber concerto to be impossible...


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## flamencosketches

chu42 said:


> Both are extremely difficult and I would not be surprised if they are actually closer in difficulty than I originally presumed. However from what I have played from it, it is more awkward than the Prokofiev- which, despite it's huge flourishes is actually mostly pianistic. The Barber is also a less tonal which probably makes it harder to learn and memorize.
> 
> Additionally, it is reported that Horowitz considered the Barber concerto to be impossible...


What I had heard is that Horowitz told Barber that it was impossible, and that he rewrote it to be significantly easier. But perhaps I am remembering it wrong. In any case I'll have to listen with score in hand. It's definitely a towering and beautiful concerto that pianists should play more, but maybe they do not due to its difficulty.


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## Roger Knox

chu42 said:


> I have indeed listened to the Scharwenka concerti. They are quite beautiful and look fairly difficult, but I am not sure where to put it quite yet. Most likely in the third category.


Number three or number two, I'm not sure either. Glenn Gould called one (I think No. 1) "a beast" and never played any of Scharwenka's concertos. There are some unusual figurations he worked out that are playable but require much extra practice.


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## DavidA

pianozach said:


> Um, . . . you may be thinking of _only_ the _*1st movement*_ of the *Moonlight Sonata* [Actually the Piano Sonata No.14 _"Quasi Una Fantasia"_ Opus 27 No.2]. (Don't be embarassed, it's a common misconception that the 1st movement is the whole thing.) That's the placid, calm, reflective, moody movement. But there are three movements to this sonata, per the custom of the day.
> 
> The *second movement* _'presto agitato'_ is sort of like "filler". Inconsequential. A brief respite between the moodiness of the 1st and the _stürm und drang_ of the 3rd. Flippant, nonchalant. _Deceptive . . ._ a false throwback to a simpler time.


No I am thinking of the whole thing! No need for the condescension. Even I can play the first and second movements! :lol:

And btw if you are going for a real virtuoso performance for the third movement, why not pick a real technician?


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## flamencosketches

How are the MacDowell piano concerti? Not in difficulty, but quality. Worthy of a listen?


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## KenOC

I assure you that they are quite fine. (sniff)


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## DavidA

pianozach said:


> As a pianist, I can attest that THAT passage _looks_ actually fairly easy to play, although a fast tempo WOULD make it challenging.
> .


Easy to play? Prokofiev's second concerto? Looks pretty tricky to me if not to Ms Wang


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## chu42

I think my favorite "super difficult" concerto would have to be the Ginastera 1


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## chu42

flamencosketches said:


> How are the MacDowell piano concerti? Not in difficulty, but quality. Worthy of a listen?


Certainly the best American concerti until the 20th century! Very late-romantic in sound and technique.

Melodically it's more like Brahms than anything we'd associate with America, but the orchestration is more...exotic


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## mikeh375

chu42 said:


> I think my favorite "super difficult" concerto would have to be the Ginastera 1


wow, just started listening to this, liking it a lot, thanks chu42.


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## Dimace

flamencosketches said:


> David is an older guy, has been listening to classical music for decades, and has been a contributor here for the better part of a decade, and his avatar is a picture of Beethoven. He certainly knows that the Moonlight Sonata has three movements, and I'm sure he was factoring in all three when he wrote that. I initially read your post as very condescending but it appears your heart was in the right place.
> 
> Anyway, I would like to echo his sentiment: the Moonlight Sonata doesn't provide any serious challenges of a virtuoso nature, in any of the three movements. It's fast, sure, but it's all scales and arpeggios. I'm sure I could learn it myself with my modest skills within the space of a few months.
> 
> Also, on an unrelated note, I disagree with your flippant dismissal of *the second movement, it's my favorite of the three!*


To the point! It is the best movement (and the most demanding) in this sonata.

(Beethoven starts where the notes are ending. He has little to do with virtuosity, which, most of the times, is meaningless. I consider Liszt's and Rachmaninoff's concerts of medium difficulty in comparison to any of Beethoven's).

(Very interesting list. Some works are unknown to me).


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## Sad Al

Surely Bach D-minor concerto must be the most difficult because it is the best. (My 2 cents)


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## flamencosketches

Sad Al said:


> Surely Bach D-minor concerto must be the most difficult because it is the best. (My 2 cents)


Bach never wrote a piano concerto, of course.


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## DavidA

Of the popular piano concertos the Rach 3 is considered formidable especially the alternative cadenza


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## DavidA

And the cadenza of no 1 is huge too


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## DavidA

Dimace said:


> To the point! It is the best movement (and the most demanding) in this sonata.
> 
> (Beethoven starts where the notes are ending. He has little to do with virtuosity, which, most of the times, is meaningless. I consider Liszt's and Rachmaninoff's concerts of medium difficulty in comparison to any of Beethoven's).
> 
> (Very interesting list. Some works are unknown to me).


I assume you play all four Rach concertos then? And the sonata 2? Interesting that the great pianist and teacher Gary Graffman described the Rach 3 as 'that old knuckle breaker!' No doubt a person of your virtuosity would disagree with him?


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## DavidA

The Ravel Left Hand always strikes me as difficult too. I note Yuja uses the music!


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## DavidA

Just listened to this. Seems pretty tricky to me too. I would imagine it must rank among the most difficult of 'popular' piano concertos. Mind you, Miss Wang makes it appear pretty easy! :lol:


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## chu42

Well, I have put Rach 3 in the "Ridiculously Difficult" section, which is as far as it goes for standard concerti.


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## hammeredklavier

Sad Al said:


> Surely *Bach D-minor concerto must be the most difficult* because it is the best. (My 2 cents)


You don't understand piano-playing. We don't need your 2 cents lol.


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## chrismaninoff

Having played a few of these, I want to throw in my thoughts. 

The biggest thing for me is that the Ravel left hand is really not that difficult. I learned the whole thing in about 2 months of light practice, on the side whilst learning some other repertoire. Perhaps that is just because I am very familiar with his playing style, having played Miroirs, Gaspard, Jeux D'eau and the trio already, but I think it should move down to difficult or maybe the very bottom of very difficult. The G major is also generally reputed as one of the easiest concerti among the pianists I talk with, though I have only ever sightread it. I would rank Saint-Saens 2 as harder than both of them. 

Also, Shostakovich 2 is a weird one. I have played it and accompanied a couple of people who played it, and it always ends up being weirdly more work than we expect. First movement, easy. Second, sightreadable. Third, easy at first... but then somehow it just takes forever to really polish those 6ths, 3rds and octaves. From a technical standpoint, I think it is harder than any mozart concerto, or at least the 7 I have played and accompanied. I also think that it's not a walk in the park, musically--it has to be legitimately quirky and fun, which not everyone can pull off!


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## collegefrosh

I'm surprised the Moszkowski is ranked so low. I played the saint-saens in high school and it is nowhere NEAR how tough Moszkowski is. The first movement alone seems to throw every technique in the book at you. Definitely an underrated concerto in my opinion!


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## consuono

hammeredklavier said:


> You don't understand piano-playing. We don't need your 2 cents lol.


Without going into the subjective nature of such listings, it is interesting that difficulty in this list seems to be almost in inverse proportion to "musical worth" (in my subjective opinion.). You have the upper tier that's really of interest to piano nerds (again in my subjective opinion - but come on. Sorabji and Alkan?) and then on down the difficulty scale you come to works that are appreciated by a wider audience.


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## Eclectic Al

Fascinating thread. I have no competence to comment on the content of the posts, but it's an interesting topic, and the discussion is fascinating. Keep on disputing!


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## flamencosketches

Where does Tchaikovsky's Concert Fantasy in G fall on this list? Sounds to my ears like a monstrously difficult work.


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## chu42

collegefrosh said:


> I'm surprised the Moszkowski is ranked so low. I played the saint-saens in high school and it is nowhere NEAR how tough Moszkowski is. The first movement alone seems to throw every technique in the book at you. Definitely an underrated concerto in my opinion!


It is in the "extremely difficult" category so I don't see where your surprise comes from! The first movement is certainly technique heavy but quite pianistic, as long as you are up for it.


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## chu42

flamencosketches said:


> Where does Tchaikovsky's Concert Fantasy in G fall on this list? Sounds to my ears like a monstrously difficult work.


Seems to me either to be in "extremely difficult" or the one below it


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## Daniel1000

Interesting list. 
Maybe too much weight of rather obscure "contemporary" concertos in the first group that most people have only heard about but never listened to. 
Only three "real" repertoire works in the second group. 
I think you could add Mozart no 24, Gershwin's Second Rhapsody, Beethoven's Choral Fantasy, Dohnayi's Variations on a nursery tune, Messiaen's Turangila Symphony and a probably a dozen of romantic piano concertos that may, although forgotten, at least be as interesting as some of the newer stuff. 

If trying to be objective, my top 4 of hardest standard concertos would be:
1. Rachmaninov 3
2. Brahms 2
3. Prokofiev 2
4. Bartok 2

Finally, the Schumann and Chopin 2nd are harder than one might think.


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## sfrobcurry

*Most difficult piano concerto*

I've so enjoyed your list and all the subsequent reactions! It's such fodder for passionate debate amongst lovers of the genre/pianists. What is evident, to my thoughts, is that the concept of "difficult" is so incredibly subjective and dependent on the criteria applied to the subject. We all read your list with very different eyes…as is clear from the discussions (the Mozarts being a clear illustration of this, as so often observed as being difficult in the sense of musicality). It seems redundant to make the observation that every pianist finds certain composers more comfortable/easier to play than others. Hence any list of this nature causing much heated and highly entertaining debate! For my part (as a failed musician/pianist, pretty good as a child/teenager but not good enough to pursue as a career, but a continued life long music devotee) I'm looking through the list based purely on my thoughts of technical difficulties alone. In my "heyday" I played the Schumann, Mendelssohn No.1, Beethoven 3 and a handful of Mozart's…(badly admittedly!)…so the one placement that really screamed out to me, was the Prokofiev 1….easier than the Schumann?… as a huge teenage fan of Prokofiev, I had the scores of all 5 and remember only being able to play scattered pages, around the same time as learning the Schumann, which didn't tax me too much. Just one thought. Many thanks again for creating this list…and also for including a few I've not heard before. I'm excited to look those up and get to know.


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## sfrobcurry

I love the Moszkowski 2 ( I presume you’re referring to the Op 59?)…I always think of it as being the result of the Grieg, Schumann and Mendelssohn 1, put into a blender. So many passages recall them throughout!…my only gripe with it is the 4th mvt’s main theme…it’s a tad Disney to my ears, though absolutely redeemed when it leads into the wonderfully Schumann-esque development! I always felt that he had either a conscious or subconscious leaning towards these works when writing it.


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## Yabetz

That's a very interesting list. I'll have to make an effort to listen to all the unfamiliar ones. Thanks for compiling it.


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## SanAntone

The Schoenberg Piano Concerto is supposed t be devilishly difficult, at least according to Mitsuko Uchida.


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## Yabetz

SanAntone said:


> The Schoenberg Piano Concerto is supposed t be devilishly difficult, at least according to Mitsuko Uchida.


That one has long been one of my favorite works from the 20th century, as well as probably my favorite work of Schoenberg.


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## Rasa

Applying some necromancy to this thread... I read through the Moszkowski concerto today (at an extremely slow pace), and while it's certainly long and contains many notes to learn, I don't think it's "extremely" difficult. 

There is a distinct lack of explicitly challenging passages. For example, all two hand runs are at the octave (rather than at thirds or sixths). There's one annoying chromatic third run, but other than that the runs are just single note runs. Jumps are usually sensible and there's plenty of time to execute them. It's almost as though Moskowski decided to use the minimum amount of difficulty needed to write what he had to say.


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## chu42

Rasa said:


> Applying some necromancy to this thread... I read through the Moszkowski concerto today (at an extremely slow pace), and while it's certainly long and contains many notes to learn, I don't think it's "extremely" difficult.
> 
> There is a distinct lack of explicitly challenging passages. For example, all two hand runs are at the octave (rather than at thirds or sixths). There's one annoying chromatic third run, but other than that the runs are just single note runs. Jumps are usually sensible and there's plenty of time to execute them. It's almost as though Moskowski decided to use the minimum amount of difficulty needed to write what he had to say.


Yes, I actually performed the Moszkowski and it is very pianistic. But I think you will find that the other concertos in the same category will be similarly difficult. After all, there are two more categories above "extremely" difficult so if you're a strong pianist the "ridiculous" and "extraordinary" sections are where I'd suspect the actual difficult passages lay.

Of course, if you're used to the Grieg and Saint-Saens concerti then the Moszkowski is indeed "extremely" difficult.



Daniel1000 said:


> Interesting list.
> Maybe too much weight of rather obscure "contemporary" concertos in the first group that most people have only heard about but never listened to.
> Only three "real" repertoire works in the second group.


Hm, I don't see the point of only listing works that people already know.



Daniel1000 said:


> I think you could add Mozart no 24, Gershwin's Second Rhapsody, Beethoven's Choral Fantasy, Dohnayi's Variations on a nursery tune, Messiaen's Turangila Symphony and a probably a dozen of romantic piano concertos that may, although forgotten, at least be as interesting as some of the newer stuff.


Yes, the list could do with these additions


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## yannisinytterby_

chu42 said:


> *Ridiculously Difficult:*
> Ginastera Concerto No.2
> Bartok Concerto No. 2
> Prokofiev Concerto No.2
> Xenakis Palimpsest
> Babbitt Concerto
> Bartok Concerto No.1
> Messiaen Oiseaux Exotiques
> Bortkiewicz Concerto No.2
> Strauss Burlesque
> Rachmaninov Concerto No.3
> Busoni Indian Fantasy
> Tveitt Aurora Borealis
> Scriabin Prometheus or the Poem of Fire
> Perle Piano Concerto No. 1
> Brahms Concerto No.2
> Korngold Left Hand Concerto
> Perle Piano Concerto No. 2
> Rozycki Concerto No.1
> Kapustin Concerto No.6
> Ravel Left Hand Concerto


I didn't know that Erich Korngold had a left-hand concerto too!


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## Rogerx

yannisinytterby_ said:


> I didn't know that Erich Korngold had a left-hand concerto too!


You learn new things every day on this site, welcome by the way .


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