# Do You Prefer Large Orchestral Works Or Chamber Music?



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Do you prefer orchestral works such as concertos and symphonies, or do you prefer chamber music such as sonatas, solo works, chamber ensemble works?

Mahler, Symphony no.8





Brahms, Horn Trio


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I voted I enjoy both equally. I do know there are listeners who prefer one over the other. Either way it allows the composer to express his/her creativity in vastly different ways. It is not small feat to compose well in either. You can take a Haydn symphony and arrange it for a string quintet and notice this scaled down version is not quite as exuberant as the original orchestral version. This goes to show that a composer's original creativity speaks best. So it can depend on the music and I enjoy both.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Both can be wonderful and sublime in my opinion. I marked that I enjoy both equally.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

This is actually weird for me, because I've always enjoyed large orchestral works, I didn't care at all about chamber music, but lately something changed after I heard Mozart's quartets for Haydn (which I had never heard). I am actually finding chamber music more interesting than symphonies. Symphonies are starting to ... bore me. Expecially romantic ones. I know, I know, I'm crazy, I am saying blasphemies, but lately that's what I've been experiencing.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Only large orchestra (or solo piano) - chamber music tends to bore me to death.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Amadea said:


> This is actually weird for me, because I've always enjoyed large orchestral works, I didn't care at all about chamber music, but lately something changed after I heard Mozart's quartets for Haydn (which I had never heard). I am actually finding chamber music more interesting than symphonies. Symphonies are starting to ... bore me. Expecially romantic ones. I know, I know, I'm crazy, I am saying blasphemies, but lately that's what I've been experiencing.


With chamber music, the insightful composer must know how to write carefully for each instrument and let each instrument "sing" as if communicating with one another in conversation or song. With large scale orchestral works especially the Romantic symphonies, it offers the composers the ability to sound very loud and very forceful at times to impress in this way. I can see why the Romantic symphonies might bore you. In either way, it is good to explore both and find one that especially pleases you. Quality music does wonders this way.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I also like both. I just put all of Mozart's instrumental music on shuffle, and listen that way. So, it all blends together nicely.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Fabulin said:


> Only large orchestra (or solo piano) - chamber music tends to bore me to death.


Which works do you enjoy? Your post is exactly why I wanted to explore this. I know of people who only listen to large scale orchestral and find chamber music boring.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

As once a classical music radio host , I preferred broadcasting chamber music recordings understanding the limitations of most audio equipment . Listening live in a concert hall is a different acoustic feeling - all can be fine . In a crazy space sometimes only a soloist can best make sense .


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I believe that the best chamber music is better than the best orchestral music. However, I know more orchestral works than chamber works, and I listen to orchestral music more often than chamber music.

So I chose "I enjoy both equally."

(BTW, I prefer the Brahms Horn Trio to Mahler's Eighth Symphony. However, DLVDE, the Ninth, and perhaps a couple other Mahler works rank higher on my scale than the Brahms Horn Trio [which in turn doesn't rank in my top five Brahms chamber works].)


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Tikoo Tuba said:


> As once a classical music radio host , I preferred broadcasting chamber music recordings understanding the limitations of most audio equipment . Listening live in a concert hall is a different acoustic feeling - all can be fine . In a crazy space sometimes only a soloist can best make sense .


Good point. I find radio listening on large scale music very unpleasant for some reason because of the signal or maybe because of the speaker. But that's got nothing to do with the music, obviously.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Both equally. Sometimes I want bigger than life, sometimes intimate.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This is one of the greatest chamber works. It was perhaps the first example of pre-Romantic chamber music and it certainly set the standard for such ensembles for centuries to follow.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Both have their advantages. I'm a fan of orchestral color, so symphonies are great. But chamber music has more opportunities for individual expression and for linear clarity, and it doesn't necessarily require someone with a stick and his back turned to the audience blocking the view.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

ArtMusic said:


> Which works do you enjoy? Your post is exactly why I wanted to explore this. I know of people who only listen to large scale orchestral and find chamber music boring.


usual orchestral suspects: Beethoven, Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Puccini, Herrmann, Williams, but also Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman... (jazz orchestras)

piano - Beethoven, Debussy, lately also Schubert, also things I transcribe or compose on my own, because of the beautiful clarity in presentation and timbre

I don't seem to have any favourite works in chamber music genre, just like I don't really have favourite works by rock bands.

Hope it clarifies.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> This is one of the greatest chamber works. It was perhaps the first example of pre-Romantic chamber music and it certainly set the standard for such ensembles for centuries to follow.


Do you have more of these? I'm in heaven.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Fabulin said:


> usual orchestral suspects: Beethoven, Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Puccini, Herrmann, Williams, but also Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman... (jazz orchestras)
> 
> piano - Beethoven, Debussy, lately also Schubert, also things I transcribe or compose on my own, because of the beautiful clarity in presentation and timbre
> 
> ...


If you enjoy Beethoven for orchestral and solo piano, perhaps you could enjoy his chamber music as well. Have you tried his violin sonatas? The _*Kreutzer*_* sonata* is a hallmark of the genre and was one the pieces that made me start to like chamber music some years ago.



Amadea said:


> Do you have more of these? I'm in heaven.


Have you already heard *Mozart's Clarinet Concerto*? It and the late chamber pieces of Brahms for the instrument (such as *his famous quintet*) are very beautiful in my opinion.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I like both, but give slight edge to large orchestral works.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Chamber music and solo piano exclusively. I actually do not care for orchestral music, except for those composers who treat the orchestra as a group of chamber ensembles.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I selected large orchestral works, but it is a pretty slim difference. 

But I do tend to enjoy larger (10 or so players) more than string quartets and piano trios. 

Kind of like, Stefan Wolpe, Chamber Piece No. 1, for flute, oboe, English horn, clarinet, bassoon, horn, trumpet, trombone, 2 violins, viola, cello, double bass, piano. That sort of size, and variety of instruments is much more interesting to me, that a string quartet.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Amadea said:


> Do you have more of these? I'm in heaven.


Of course, one of the greatest composers who ever lived wrote more:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

SanAntone said:


> Chamber music and solo piano exclusively. I actually do not care for orchestral music, except for those composers who treat the orchestra as a group of chamber ensembles.


So you do not care for symphonies, concertos and the like?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Amadea said:


> Do you have more of these? I'm in heaven.


More Mozart is your answer!


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

I prefer orchestral music. Not much post-Baroque chamber music attracts me. Usually it don't attracts me.

I am not a big fan of the piano and solo strings doesn't sound clean like multiple strings. And fortissimo isn't really as possible as with an orchestra. So the spectrum of expression seems limited. I think changes in the dynamics are not as important for Baroque music and earlier music. And they used harpsichord back then which I like more than pianos.

Some works exists in chamber and orchestral forms. Seems like I always prefer the orchestral version.

Schönberg: Verklärte Nacht: Chamber version, Orchestral version
Barber: Adagio for strings: Chamber version, Orchestral version
Sviridov: Quinett/Music for Chamber orchestra (2nd movement): Chamber version, Orchestral version

What chamber works do I like? Some few works come to my mind:

Conrad Paumann: Mit Ganczem Willen
Johann Pachelbel: Canon in D
maybe some Beethoven sonatas (8, 14, 32 maybe for example, its good music, but I don't like the instrumentation)
Georgy Sviridov: Trio in a minor
Bernard Herrmann: Souvenir de Voyage


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Although I have gotten more into chamber works lately (especially Schubert's quartets/quintets/sextets), I still prefer music written for a full orchestra. I don't think it's an accident that Schubert has been the chamber music that has broken in most for me, as much of it seems "symphonic" in ambition.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

For the first few years of listening to classical music (late 1980s), I would have said orchestral. After that I started to explore chamber music more and it quickly became a co-favourite. Would not want to be without either.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

large orchestra works for me, the larger the better, say, Strauss 'Salome'.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

I enjoy them both. If music is great, instrumentation comes second. I can also enjoy orchestral works transcribed for piano (or 2 pianos or piano 4 hands) or instrumental works arranged for orchestra.
Some examples.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I don't prefer chamber music per se but it turns out that many/most of my favorite composers wrote more of it than orchestral music, especially if one takes into account that a lot of baroque "orchestral" music is closer to chamber ensemble (~6-12 players) than modern orchestra.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> I don't prefer chamber music per se but it turns out that many/most of my favorite composers wrote more of it than orchestral music, especially if one takes into account that a lot of baroque "orchestral" music is closer to chamber ensemble (~6-12 players) than modern orchestra.


Who are your favorite composers?


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

I'm pretty sure that deep in my heart I prefer one over the other, but I have no idea which one. I simply really doubt that I can like two genres truly equally. Therefore, I voted that it depends on the music, _because it does_. In the sense that if I had to choose between a great orchestral work and a mediocre chamber piece (or a great chamber piece and a mediocre orchestral work), I wouldn't prefer one over the other just because of the genre but because of the quality of the composition, no matter what genre.

However, chamber music took me significantly longer to get used to. I got into classical music mainly through Romantic orchestral works - big and exciting - and getting similar pleasure from chamber music took some time. But it eventually clicked with me and now I totally love good chamber music.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

No preference. It depends on the music materials and the musical language of the composer.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> No preference. It depends on the music materials and the musical language of the composer.


Yes, both genres exhibit masterpieces by various composers. It's good fun listening to them.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Bruckner Anton said:


> No preference. It depends on the music materials and the musical language of the composer.


This ^^^^ :tiphat:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> Who are your favorite composers?


Maybe I should have mentioned it: Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, Bach, Schubert, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Dvorak, Handel, Bartok, Mahler, Mendelssohn....
Many of them have very good orchestral music, others very little or it is dwarved by their solo/chamber (Schumann, Schubert). My favorite mostly orchestral composers are probably Mahler, Bruckner and Wagner, but in general I am not the biggest fan of late romantic/early modern orchestral music (although of course there are some pieces I like a lot). And in some cases, such as Shostakovich I prefer the chamber music (but this might be a special case as his symphonies are very diverse and uneven, the concertos are mostly as consistently good as the chamber works).

Generally, I far more centered on composers than genres.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> Maybe I should have mentioned it: Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, Bach, Schubert, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Dvorak, Handel, Bartok, Mahler, Mendelssohn....
> Many of them have very good orchestral music, others very little or it is dwarved by their solo/chamber (Schumann, Schubert). My favorite mostly orchestral composers are probably Mahler, Bruckner and Wagner, but in general I am not the biggest fan of late romantic/early modern orchestral music (although of course there are some pieces I like a lot). And in some cases, such as Shostakovich I prefer the chamber music (but this might be a special case as his symphonies are very diverse and uneven, the concertos are mostly as consistently good as the chamber works).
> 
> Generally, I far more centered on composers than genres.


Yes, you have already mentioned the Top 5 in my list. I too, am more centered on composers than genres. Great composers tend to never fail to impress whatever the genre they indulge their creativity in. When Handel could be bothered to write orchestral music, he excelled even though that was not his vocation; perfect example.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> ... Would not want to be without either.


Yes. That sounds about right.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Allerius said:


> If you enjoy Beethoven for orchestral and solo piano, perhaps you could enjoy his chamber music as well. Have you tried his violin sonatas? The _*Kreutzer*_* sonata* is a hallmark of the genre and was one the pieces that made me start to like chamber music some years ago.
> Have you already heard *Mozart's Clarinet Concerto*? It and the late chamber pieces of Brahms for the instrument (such as *his famous quintet*) are very beautiful in my opinion.


Yes I know the clarinet concerto, but didn't know Brahms's quintets. Thanks


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

It`s not very easy to deceive the listener in chamber, not easy to bombast your way through it. Music is all there, no need for a mediator. I probably listen orchestral music more in an average day but when I`m feeling down or in need, I seek solace in chamber music. I consider the best examples of the orchestral music such as Mahler Symphonies as Gods and I worship them in my own way whereas I regard the best specimens of chamber music such as those by Brahms as close friends, lovers or beloved family members to whom I feel a genuine affinity. In accordance with this analogy, I`d say I prefer chamber music by a significant margin...


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Highwayman said:


> It`s not very easy to deceive the listener in chamber, not easy to bombast your way through it. Music is all there, no need for a mediator. I probably listen orchestral music more in an average day but when I`m feeling down or in need, I seek solace in chamber music. I consider the best examples of the orchestral music such as Mahler Symphonies as Gods and I worship them in my own way whereas I regard the best specimens of chamber music such as those by Brahms as close friends, lovers or beloved family members to whom I feel a genuine affinity. In accordance with this analogy, I`d say I prefer chamber music by a significant margin...


Many approach Brahms that way, for he was better with his chamber music than with his large scale orchestral music.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I enjoy many large scale orchestral works, but in general 'I prefer Chamber Music'.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Used to like only orchestral. Chamber music often sounded too brash. Now it just depends on the music.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

Highwayman said:


> It`s not very easy to deceive the listener in chamber, not easy to bombast your way through it.


as if the bombast is easy to construct...

will take some knowledge and skill to make it work.


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## Clloydster (Apr 19, 2021)

I really prefer large orchestral works, so I selected that, but I've come here to broaden my horizons, and I am really enjoying the "Weekly String Quartet" thread, so who knows - in time I might change to liking both equally. And for the large orchestral works, there still is a lot I haven't explored. I'm starting to take a look at Mahler right now.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Amadea said:


> Yes I know the clarinet concerto, but didn't know Brahms's quintets. Thanks


Brahms composed a clarinet quintet, a piano quintet, and two string quintets. All are masterpieces.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

Highwayman said:


> It`s not very easy to deceive the listener in chamber, not easy to bombast your way through it. Music is all there, no need for a mediator. I probably listen orchestral music more in an average day but when I`m feeling down or in need, I seek solace in chamber music. I consider the best examples of the orchestral music such as Mahler Symphonies as Gods and I worship them in my own way whereas I regard the best specimens of chamber music such as those by Brahms as close friends, lovers or beloved family members to whom I feel a genuine affinity. In accordance with this analogy, I`d say I prefer chamber music by a significant margin...


To be honest (not trying to disagree, just a taste thing), I've sometimes felt the opposite - there's a lot of highly virtuosic chamber music which is thrilling in small doses, but can get a bit tiring over time- and it seems like non-virtuosic concertos and even sonatas sometimes get ignored, which is a shame.

Orchestral stuff tends to be less virtuosic by necessity which is part of why I prefer it- then again I'm mostly a melody-and-structure guy, not a guitar solos and prog guy.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Here is a solo "chamber music", well in fact it is performed in a cathedral.

Organ: Arp Schnitger, ca. 1700


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

SanAntone said:


> Chamber music and solo piano exclusively. I actually do not care for orchestral music, except for those composers who treat the orchestra as a group of chamber ensembles.


Which composers treat the orchestra as a group of chamber ensembles? Ravel and Debussy?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Open Book said:


> Which composers treat the orchestra as a group of chamber ensembles? Ravel and Debussy?


There are many examples of using a concertino string trio within a concerto grosso. Corelli and Handel for example wrote perfected and masterful examples of this in their respective *opus 6* sets, both were published and widely distributed. They were the earliest masters at utilizing this.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

But at the time of Handel and Corelli there was hardly a stylistic difference; concerti grossi were basically "musica da camera" as the difference was to church music, not between chamber and concert hall (which did not exist but was the courtly "chamber" which could of course be a large hall in practice) 
I think there are actual examples of Handel turning trio sonata movements into concertos by "filling up" the missing voices between bass and solos (some of which would have been played by a good keyboard continuo player even in the trio sonata performance). A concerto grosso could be played by a rather large ensemble opposite the concertino but it could also be chamber like, basically a trio (concertino) + a quintet or sextet. This is rather different even from a Viennese classical full orchestra vs. string quartet or so, not to speak of a late romantic orchestra.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

^Yes, I agree. That is correct. The concertino is an offspring from the trio sonata ensemble merged with a large ensemble for the Baroque orchestra (whatever the size, as this could also vary from court to court). At the premiere of Handel's _La Resurrezione_, the masterpiece was written by the 23 year old, it featured a gigantic orchestra with about 40 string players (as records show) and yet the opening sinfonia had the illustrious Arcangelo Correlli leading the solo:


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## cheregi (Jul 16, 2020)

What do you all think of this?: as someone who enjoys classical music alongside many other idioms, what draws me to classical music is a certain kind of engagement with harmonies/melodies/counterpoint that I don't often find elsewhere. Orchestral music often takes these foundations and adds to them timbral/textural/dynamic exploration, which in the context of classical music I mostly don't care about, because I can listen to electroacoustic, ambient, noise, and other electronic musics in which the sonic vistas of timbre, texture and dynamics are orders of magnitude more wide-open than anything that can be done with an orchestra. Therefore I find myself strongly drawn towards chamber music.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

For me, I usually listen to orchestral 60% of the time and chamber music about 40%. It also depends;ends on the composer as well. Interestingly, I don't listen to a lot of solo piano or sonatas with one instrument plus piano. Not sure why, probably because I like a variety of timbres. My chamber music favorites usually involve at least one wind instrument (i.e. Mozart's Flute Quartet, Clarinet Quintet, Oboe Quartet, Brahms Horn Trio, etc.)


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

cheregi said:


> What do you all think of this?: as someone who enjoys classical music alongside many other idioms, what draws me to classical music is a certain kind of engagement with harmonies/melodies/counterpoint that I don't often find elsewhere. Orchestral music often takes these foundations and adds to them timbral/textural/dynamic exploration, which in the context of classical music I mostly don't care about, because I can listen to electroacoustic, ambient, noise, and other electronic musics in which the sonic vistas of timbre, texture and dynamics are orders of magnitude more wide-open than anything that can be done with an orchestra. Therefore I find myself strongly drawn towards chamber music.


Well very put and I can see a different perspective that I agree with. The small ensemble works and even solo works demand a clear interplay of the voices. Orchestral music do often take the foundations and add the qualities you wrote. That's why some consider say the Romantic large scale symphonies to sound bombastic as times. Similarly, if you listen to piano transcriptions of large scale works, you might feel it is a little "water downed". Listen to Liszt's transcription of Beethoven's epic symphonies for piano and you might see this. With chamber music, many composers turn out better at writing for this because they can control the voices clearer without being tempted to add the extra timbre, dynamic exploration etc. such as Brahms with his chamber music.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I prefer chamber orchestral music


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

^Yes, indeed it goes without saying the early chamber orchestras are magnificent. Obviously the orchestra had to start somewhere, it wasn't going to be a 100 musicians strong band from day one.


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