# beethoven's 10th



## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Apologies if this has already been posted but I looked on you tube and found a rendition of Beethoven's 10th. 



 it has two parts.


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Love that symphony, very passionate. I wonder how it would've sounded if Beethoven had lived long enough to finish it.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

sounds eerily similar to his op 16 string quartet in g major.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

I have that CD in my Walter Weller: Beethoven The Complete Symphonies set. I always liked Weller's conducting of Beethoven. His 9th symphony is unbeatable.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I've listened to this unfinished symphony's first movement a few times now and it's pretty enjoyable. I haven't heard it enough yet to form a final opinion but like what I hear so far. Anyone else familiar with it?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Yeh I've heard it before and remember liking it. Obviously it's unfinished, but if you just accept it for what it is then I think it can be enjoyed.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

starry said:


> if you just accept it for what it is then I think it can be enjoyed.


Who wants to do that? We must contrast everything to our own opinion of what it ought to be and fail to enjoy it in those terms!

Or are you new to classical music?


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2013)

Not only is it 'unfinished', it was, apparently, barely started, with fragments that others have pieced together to form a possible first movement. Can such a small fraction be called a 'symphony'?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I wonder what would happen to all the other "copycats" who wrote nine symphonies after Beethoven, that if Beethoven lived a little longer perhaps, long enough to write #10, would that encourage all those later composers to also write ten symphonies instead of nine? Just a thought.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> I wonder what would happen to all the other "copycats" who wrote nine symphonies after Beethoven, that if Beethoven lived a little longer perhaps, long enough to write #10, would that encourage all those later composers to also write ten symphonies instead of nine? Just a thought.


Hmm. I think it's a little harsh to call all the other composers who wrote 9 symphonies after Beethoven 'copycats'. Certainly Mahler had a real suspicion about writing a ninth hence naming his real 9th 'Das Lied von der Erde' and his official 9th symphony actually being his 10th. However, had Mahler not had a heart condition and lived longer he would have completed the symphony called the 10th and - who knows - may have gone on to write 11, 12, 13, etc.
Which composers are you thinking of as 'copycats'?


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

MacLeod said:


> Not only is it 'unfinished', it was, apparently, barely started, with fragments that others have pieced together to form a possible first movement. Can such a small fraction be called a 'symphony'?


I think that's a fair point. It's probably just an assumption that it was sketches for a symphony anyway, the intention being to make people more interested and enable it to sell more no doubt. It should really be called 'Completed sketches of a conjectured symphony'. That would be more honest and also more faithful to the composer who never called this his 10th, while still indicating that the completion has been done in his symphonic style.


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## Schumann (Aug 12, 2013)

Also Schubert's 10th symphony is very interesting!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Yes I like that too, and have for a long time.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

techniquest said:


> Hmm. I think it's a little harsh to call all the other composers who wrote 9 symphonies after Beethoven 'copycats'. Certainly Mahler had a real suspicion about writing a ninth hence naming his real 9th 'Das Lied von der Erde' and his official 9th symphony actually being his 10th. However, had Mahler not had a heart condition and lived longer he would have completed the symphony called the 10th and - who knows - may have gone on to write 11, 12, 13, etc.
> Which composers are you thinking of as 'copycats'?


You don't think that perhaps Mahler didn't call Das Lied his 9th Symphony because, unlike every other work he labelled a symphony, it's not in symphonic form? There's no sonata form movement in sight.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I have this one:

View attachment 22733


Wyn Morris & The London Symphony Orchestra

It may not be politically correct...but I enjoy hearing it once in a while.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

techniquest said:


> Hmm. I think it's a little harsh to call all the other composers who wrote 9 symphonies after Beethoven 'copycats'. Certainly Mahler had a real suspicion about writing a ninth hence naming his real 9th 'Das Lied von der Erde' and his official 9th symphony actually being his 10th. However, had Mahler not had a heart condition and lived longer he would have completed the symphony called the 10th and - who knows - may have gone on to write 11, 12, 13, etc.
> Which composers are you thinking of as 'copycats'?


All of those who wrote nine symphonies, which as we know, there were coincidentally quite a few after Beethoven.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> All of those who wrote nine symphonies, which as we know, there were coincidentally quite a few after Beethoven.


Coincidence? I think not. It's the (cue scary music here) Curse of the Ninth! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_ninth


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> I wonder what would happen to all the other "copycats" who wrote nine symphonies after Beethoven, that if Beethoven lived a little longer perhaps, long enough to write #10, would that encourage all those later composers to also write ten symphonies instead of nine? Just a thought.


The nerve Shostakovich had not dying after or during his ninth symphony, like Bruckner and Mahler. 

And don't get me started on Miaskovsky.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

jimsumner said:


> And don't get me started on Miaskovsky.


A Haydn wannabe... for sure


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

ArtMusic said:


> All of those who wrote nine symphonies, which as we know, there were coincidentally quite a few after Beethoven.


But there's only Dvorak and Vaughan Williams, isn't there? We've got 8 symphonies from Schubert (or 7½!), 10 or 11 from Bruckner (0 and 00). Mahler is arguable for _Erde_, and part of a 10th.
GG


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> You don't think that perhaps Mahler didn't call Das Lied his 9th Symphony because, unlike every other work he labelled a symphony, it's not in symphonic form? There's no sonata form movement in sight.


No idea; I can only go by what I've read.



> But there's only Dvorak and Vaughan Williams, isn't there? We've got 8 symphonies from Schubert (or 7½!), 10 or 11 from Bruckner (0 and 00). Mahler is arguable for Erde, and part of a 10th.


There's also Malcolm Arnold that I can think of. IIRC, Dvorak's 9th was published as his 5th.


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