# Mahler: Recorded Cycles Of His Symphonies --- Your Favorites?



## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

First off, my apologies if this thread has already been discussed before, but I would love to get everyone's take on the plethora of the Mahler symphony cycles that have been recorded. What are your favorites? I own probably around 20 or so complete symphony cycles and, honestly, there are several of them I'm only now becoming familiar with: Sinopoli, Ozawa, Maazel (Sony), Tilson Thomas and Nott.

Anyway, would love all of my fellow Mahlerians to contribute and see if we can get to the jest of your favorite Mahler performances.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Yes I saw you were listening to Sinopoli in the Current Listening thread and agreed that Mahler was a strength of his. Abbado has a fairly good cycle on Deutsche Grammophon (not a true cycle; the Second was done with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra) and the live recordings have minimal audience noise and are engineered very well. Solti had some strong recordings in his cycle, especially the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh. Boulez is one of my favorites; clear textures, precise rhythms, and never overly sentimental; plus recorded in good sound. Again not a true cycle; it's spread across the Vienna Philharmonic, Cleveland Orchestra, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Staatskapelle Berlin, but all for Deutsche Grammophon. There are the two Leonard Bernstein cycles ('60s on Sony, and '80s on Deutsche Grammophon). Chailly's cycle was pretty strong if I remember correctly. Kubelík made a cycle for Deutsche Grammophon in the '60s with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra which tends to on the light/fleet end of the spectrum, and can sometimes be a bit harsh sonically, but which I still recommend. Oh and Haitink on Philips is a solid set.

But Mahler is hard to get consistently right, and many of these cycles have a blind spot somewhere in there. I certainly have my own blind spots also...


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Monsalvat said:


> Yes I saw you were listening to Sinopoli in the Current Listening thread and agreed that Mahler was a strength of his. Abbado has a fairly good cycle on Deutsche Grammophon (not a true cycle; the Second was done with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra) and the live recordings have minimal audience noise and are engineered very well. Solti had some strong recordings in his cycle, especially the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh. Boulez is one of my favorites; clear textures, precise rhythms, and never overly sentimental; plus recorded in good sound. Again not a true cycle; it's spread across the Vienna Philharmonic, Cleveland Orchestra, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and Staatskapelle Berlin, but all for Deutsche Grammophon. There are the two Leonard Bernstein cycles ('60s on Sony, and '80s on Deutsche Grammophon). Chailly's cycle was pretty strong if I remember correctly. Kubelík made a cycle for Deutsche Grammophon in the '60s with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra which tends to on the light/fleet end of the spectrum, and can sometimes be a bit harsh sonically, but which I still recommend. Oh and Haitink on Philips is a solid set.
> 
> But Mahler is hard to get consistently right, and many of these cycles have a blind spot somewhere in there. I certainly have my own blind spots also...


I own and like all of those sets you mentioned. And, yes, indeed no cycle is without fault of some kind nor are there any absolute definitive Mahler cycles, IMHO. The Bernstein on Sony gets really close for me. There are strengths and weaknesses of this cycle, too. I think Haitink and Bertini, for example, offer great middle-of-the-road performances that aren't too white hot nor are limpid or without feeling. I mean there's really a Mahler cycle for every occasion. A cycle I need to get around to buying is the Ádám Fischer cycle. I've heard great things about it.

You know what...I think I'll go buy it now. Another cycle I'm interested and that came out not too long about is from Gabriel Feltz --- a conductor I know virtually nothing about.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

If I could only keep a few cycles out of the pile I have, I'd keep: Bertini (EMI), Chailly (Decca), Bernstein (Sony), and probably Inbal (Denon). Some of the other sets have some really fine performances but their share of dogs. And Mahler just demands the best possible sound; the DG Bernstein sounds better than the Sony, but I prefer his earlier versions. The only set I might really, really miss: Kubelik (DG).


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I already have six cycles which is too much but if the Bertini cycle ever gets re-issued by Warner Classics I'll probably buy it. I suppose I listen to Bernstein Sony, and Boulez the most. My others are Bernstein DG, Tennstedt, Gielen, and Ozawa.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

I have three favourite Mahler cycles: DG Bernstein (really wonderful interpretations, very passionate and powerful, perfect rhythms and dynamics), Solti (especially the first four symphonies) and Chailly (apart from the 8th Symphony, a bit too slow tempi). Honourable mention for Tennstedt.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Lisztianwagner said:


> I have three favourite Mahler cycles: DG Bernstein (really wonderful interpretations, very passionate and powerful, perfect rhythms and dynamics), Solti (especially the first four symphonies) and Chailly (apart from the 8th Symphony, a bit too slow tempi). Honourable mention for Tennstedt.


Surprised to see Solti amongst your favorites. I love his Mahler, too. I think his star has kind of faded when people talk about their favorite Mahler conductors. Aside from his Chicago recordings, I also enjoy those recordings he made with the LSO (the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 9th). Bernstein's DG cycle is excellent, but I usually skip his performance of the 4th, which is strange as he uses that boy soprano, which doesn't sound wholly convincing. Chailly is an excellent all-around cycle. Tennstedt is one of my favorite Mahlerians. I recently acquired his studio cycle on HQCD and, so far, have been impressed with the fidelity of these remasters.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I have and like lots but Kubelik, Bertini, Chailly, Gielen, Levine (yeah I know its not a full set) and Boulez (thanks to Knorf for getting me to give this set another go) are all very strong. I should also mention the wonderful but uber rare 1995 Mahlerfeest set which is highly recommended if you can get hold of a copy. I wish Honeck would finish the cycle off for Exton as what he has done has been excellent however Exton already have my go-to Mahler set now in the shape of Inbal's superb 2nd cycle with the Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra. Outstanding accounts in state of the art sound. Gatti has done quite a few of them now (1,2,4,5 & 6?) and he's well worth a look at.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

Neo Romanza said:


> Surprised to see Solti amongst your favorites. I love his Mahler, too. I think his star has kind of faded when people talk about their favorite Mahler conductors. Aside from his Chicago recordings, I also enjoy those recordings he made with the LSO (the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 9th). Bernstein's DG cycle is excellent, but I usually skip his performance of the 4th, which is strange as he uses that boy soprano, which doesn't sound wholly convincing. Chailly is an excellent all-around cycle. Tennstedt is one of my favorite Mahlerians. I recently acquired his studio cycle on HQCD and, so far, have been impressed with the fidelity of these remasters.


Really, why is it so surprising?  I appreciate Solti's LSO recordings too, especially the 1st, very intense and compelling. I agree the 4th is the weakest point of the Bernstein DG set, it's very remarkable, but I use to prefer Solti, Chailly or Karajan (by the way, what a pity he never recorded a complete Mahler cycle!); I also agree about the great quality of Tennstedt's mahlerian interpretations, unfortunately I haven't got his cycle (just some recordings), though I've listened to it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Merl said:


> Levine (yeah I know its not a full set)


Here's another where it could be a complete set, but the legal issues will likely never let it happen He did what was by all reports a knock-out, once-in-a-lifetime Mahler 2nd in Boston. I have friends who were there and they still rave about it all these years later. It was recorded - but would the BSO ever let it out? And Levine did the 8th with Boston - the Carnegie Hall performance got pretty bad reviews. But then he also did in Boston and in Chicago and Vienna. If the 2nd and 8th could somehow be acquired, along with a DLVDE it could be the best overall Mahler set out there.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Here's another where it could be a complete set, but the legal issues will likely never let it happen He did what was by all reports a knock-out, once-in-a-lifetime Mahler 2nd in Boston. I have friends who were there and they still rave about it all these years later. It was recorded - but would the BSO ever let it out? And Levine did the 8th with Boston - the Carnegie Hall performance got pretty bad reviews. But then he also did in Boston and in Chicago and Vienna. If the 2nd and 8th could somehow be acquired, along with a DLVDE it could be the best overall Mahler set out there.


A side note because you now have me curious: I haven't heard Levine's _Das Lied von der Erde_ on DG, but the reviews are pretty...well, let's just say they're not favorable. He's got two star soloists: Siegfried Jerusalem and Jessye Norman. Have you heard this recording? If yes, any good?


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Lisztianwagner said:


> Really, why is it so surprising?  I appreciate Solti's LSO recordings too, especially the 1st, very intense and compelling. I agree the 4th is the weakest point of the Bernstein DG set, it's very remarkable, but I use to prefer Solti, Chailly or Karajan (by the way, what a pity he never recorded a complete Mahler cycle!); I also agree about the great quality of Tennstedt's mahlerian interpretations, unfortunately I haven't got his cycle (just some recordings), though I've listened to it.


I'm not sure, but it just doesn't seem like Solti's Mahler gets much love, but I"m glad this isn't the case with you. Karajan is a great Mahlerian! His recording of the 6th is my reference recording. I've never heard it played like this by anyone. An absolute exhilarating performance. And, yes, it is too bad he didn't record the whole cycle. I believe he only recorded the 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th (twice) and _Das Lied von der Erde_, which, I'll be honest, didn't really click with me. There are so many other _Das Lied_ recordings that I prefer over Karajan. If you haven't heard the Jurowski recording on Pentatone, then please do so. It's remarkable.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Mahlerian used to be a very knowledgeable commenter (moderator at one point) on this forum and he _despised_ Karajan's recording of Mahler's Sixth. Accused Karajan of altering balances, tempi and phrasing, distorting it away from Mahler's directions. I don't have such an encyclopedic knowledge of Mahler's Sixth; Karajan definitely sounds different in places, such as the end of the first movement, from what I recall, but I certainly didn't have a visceral reaction to it. It's a recording I'm glad to have but would never recommend as a first choice. At the very least Karajan's Mahler is controversial. See the comment chain here (there's actually a half-decent debate here): Karajan's Mahler 6


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Another Solti/ Chicago fan . Tennstedt on EMI , Bernstein specially on DVD, and Nott . The few Karajan made are stunning and guilty pleasure the Inbal's from Denon, not top but just like a decent restaurant you go to from time to time .


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I have number of Mahler sets supplemented by numerous individual discs. As others have stated there is no set that gets everything right so why buy full sets - because at times it was cheaper to buy a box of all the symphonies than the two or three individual recordings I was after.
My sets: Bernstein (Sony & DG), Chailly, Boulez, Rattle, Tennstedt, Abbado (DG), Sinopoli, Levine, Bertini, Gielen, Kubelik, Stenz (a set I took a chance on buying when it was described as acceptable I bought the 13 discs for £5.53 including delivery - the discs are like new but the box needed a little TLC).
I'd really struggle to name favourite sets because none is perfect but over the last year or so, Boulez, Levine and Bernstein (Sony) have been played most frequently - but that will change as time passes.
With regard to the incomplete Levine I have supplemented the set with the live second from Vienna which I enjoy:










I haven't bothered looking for an 8th as I rarely play that symphony.

I am tempted by Maazel's late Philharmonia set which has what many would consider 'glacial' tempos but from what I've sampled I find his vision interesting and worth considering - why have another set that just sounds the same as the rest.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

If I had to choose a complete set, my choice would undoubtedly be Haitink/Concertgebouw. I seem to agree on everything with Maestro Haitink and I seem to like everything about the orchestra's playing. Surprisingly, the one set that I would choose were it not Haitink, would probably be Rattle/Birmingham. The interpretations are just so colourful, insightful and convincing, and somehow down to earth.

But if I had to choose definite individual recordings, this would be my list:

Symphony no. 1 -- Solti / London
Symphony no. 2 -- Klemperer / Philharmonia
Symphony no. 3 -- Haitink / Concertgebouw
Symphony no. 4 -- Karajan / Berliner
Symphony no. 5 -- Rattle / Berliner
Symphony no. 6 -- Rattle / Berliner
Symphony no. 7 -- Solti / Chicago
Symphony no. 8 .. Haitink / Concertgebouw
Symphony no. 9 -- Karajan / Berliner

Barbirolli and Bernstein are Mahler conductors for me to avoid. They conduct Mahler way too heavy for me, as if everything Mahler ever wrote was the wisest, greatest, most profound and most serious thing on earth. It´s too bad I started off with Barbirolli and Bernstein, and initially messed up my thoughts on the symphonies with versions I would never choose as definite now that I know what I know.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Monsalvat said:


> Mahlerian used to be a very knowledgeable commenter (moderator at one point) on this forum and he _despised_ Karajan's recording of Mahler's Sixth. Accused Karajan of altering balances, tempi and phrasing, distorting it away from Mahler's directions. I don't have such an encyclopedic knowledge of Mahler's Sixth; Karajan definitely sounds different in places, such as the end of the first movement, from what I recall, but I certainly didn't have a visceral reaction to it. It's a recording I'm glad to have but would never recommend as a first choice. At the very least Karajan's Mahler is controversial. See the comment chain here (there's actually a half-decent debate here): Karajan's Mahler 6


If I recall Mahlerian didn't like Bernstein's interpretations of Mahler either. I used to talk with him a good bit on another forum he used to frequent, but it seems like he has disappeared. Oh well, I like hearing different interpretations of Mahler even if it doesn't quite work on first-listen.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I find Mahler a difficult composer to understand, but am gradually getting more familiar with his symphonies. A week ago, I got my first Mahler cycle-- the DG Kubelik one-- and have listened to the first and second symphonies. The first is excellent; the second is good but lacks a certain "epicness."

Kubelik is more focused on sounding beautiful than emphasizing Mahler's neuroticism, at least in the first two symphonies. He also takes fairly quick tempos-- the upshot of that is that all the symphonies fit on one CD, except for the third.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Here are all the complete cycles I own --- CD box sets used to be cheaper and I accumulated many of them from 2008 through 2015 (or so):

Abbado - DG
Abbado - DG (Live cycle with Berliners with exception of the 2nd, which is with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra)
Bernstein - Sony
Bernstein - DG
Chailly - Decca
Tennstedt - EMI/Warner
Jansons - BR Klassik
Sinopoli - DG
Inbal - Denon
Solti - Decca
Maazel - Sony
Maazel - Signum Classics
Bertini - EMI
Rattle - EMI/Warner
Haitink - Philips/Decca
Gergiev - LSO Live
Kubelik - DG
Tilson Thomas - SFS Media
Gielen - SWR Music
Nott - Tudor
Neumann - Supraphon
Boulez - DG
Feltz - Dreyer Gaido
Tabakov - Capriccio
Svetlanov - Warner
Stenz - Oehms

And there's no telling how many partial cycles I own --- too many to list here that's for sure.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

What I value a lot are the performances which are not part of any cycle ... Hannigan's 4th, Barshai's 5th, Harding's 10th etc.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> What I value a lot are the performances which are not part of any cycle ... Hannigan's 4th, Barshai's 5th, Harding's 10th etc.


This is true. Sometimes one-off performances can be rather special and here I'm thinking about Salonen's recording of 3rd. I haven't heard this recording in ages, but I remember being rather impressed with it. I don't really think of Salonen as a Mahler conductor (besides the 3rd, he's recorded the 4th, 6th and 9th).


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

My preference changes over time, and my favourites often don't come from cycles; but anyway, staying with cycles, or mostly incomplete cycles -

Chailly/Gewandhaus (Accentus) (No #3, #10, DLVDE)
Kubelik/BRSO (Audite) (No #4, #10)
Abbado/Lucerne (EuroArts, Accentus) (No #8,#10,DLVDE)
Ádám Fischer/Düsseldorf (Avi Music) (No #10)

The Chailly and the Kubelik are in general sharper than their studio cycles. The Abbado, compared to his earlier efforts, is sometimes weightier sometimes more transparent, not necessarily better in any one aspect, but different. The Ádám Fischer is a bit eccentric, not dissimilar to Scherchen at his best, but staying sane.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Itullian said:


> I haven't bothered looking for an 8th as I rarely play that symphony.
> 
> I am tempted by Maazel's late Philharmonia set which has what many would consider 'glacial' tempos but from what I've sampled I find his vision interesting and worth considering


Re Maazel's live Philharmonia set (which I quite like), I attended the performance of the 8th, where one of the double-bassists fainted about 5 minutes from the end, her instrument clattering loudly to the floor as she slipped off her chair. There's no audible trace of this on the recording, as it happened precisely in the pause before the Chorus Mysticus was about to sing "Alles vergängliche", so it would have been an easy edit. Maazel didn't bat an eyelid and calmly held his baton aloft until the lady had been safely escorted off stage, then continued as if nothing had happened. Happily, the bassist concerned was perfectly fine afterwards.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Obviously this is an impossible question to answer, as there are so many really good sets/cycles out there, and of the 20-odd I seem to have accumulated, only one never seems to get an airing (Gergiev's cycle, which I not only find brash, but I am also unhappy to listen to anything produced by Putin's little rentboy)

I have sentimental favourites as well as proper "musical" favourites, among the former the wonderful Neumann set on Supraphon. I also have a very high opinion of the Solti set, not just for his 8th, but there is a superb 6th, 7th there (and his earlier LSO 9th and 2nd are favourite recordings too...)

OK, best set, here goes.......a toss up between Rafael Kubelik and Michael Gielen, possibly a win for the latter because it contains the 10th and most other Mahler things too. But chuck in some of Kubelik's Audite recordings, and it'd tip the scales back the other way...

Easily overlooked is the Bertini cycle, which doesn't have a weak performance in it, although no individual symphony stands out as a top choice for me. Sinopoli has some real gems, and I have thoroughly enjoyed both the complete Dusseldorf set from Adam Fischer, and the near-complete Budapest set from little brother Ivan. I seem to see some quite dismissive assessments of Adam's set, and don't quite see why, perhaps just a little bit of Mahler fatigue from the critics? Incidentally the two Fischer sets are about as different as they could be, Ivan plays up more of the detail, Adam more of the form and flow, both work extremely well.

There are also some excellent individual performances in sets from Ozawa (not many I really like, though), Tennstedt (maybe they have lost their gloss over the years?) Maazel, Inbal, Haitink, Bernstein x 2, Chailly (debatably the best recorded set I have), Rattle, Abbado (his earlier 7th is a particular favourite), Boulez, Abravanel.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Neo Romanza said:


> This is true. Sometimes one-off performances can be rather special and here I'm thinking about Salonen's recording of 3rd. I haven't heard this recording in ages, but I remember being rather impressed with it. I don't really think of Salonen as a Mahler conductor (besides the 3rd, he's recorded the 4th, 6th and 9th).


Salonen is a terrific Mahler conductor. I heard him do the 7th in LA and it was just spectacular. When he first made an appearance decades ago a lot of thought he was just another young, pretty boy with a baton - but he was - is - the real deal. A very fine conductor who will no doubt keep the San Francisco Mahler traditions going strong.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Of the cycles I've owned and pieces I've heard I best liked those by Maurice Abravanel and Utah Symphony, Vaclav Neumann and Czech Philharmonic, and Claudio Abbado's various recordings for DG. All three are sober and humanized compared to larger, more outward or hysterical music-making.


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## MartinDB (9 mo ago)

This is probably repeating lots of others, and might not add anything, but here is my $0.02.

Based on my Haitink, Bernstein I & II, Chailly, Bertini, Kubelik, Tennstedt, Boulez, Abbado (nearly all symphonies), Tilson Thomas (nearly all, again) cycles, there is not a single one that I consistently prefer. Moreover, some symphonies I listen to only rarely, so I am not sure my view on a whole cycle should count anyway.

That said, I will typically opt for Haitink, a conductor who I always enjoy. And Boulez because of the clarity and detail (to me). But I can occasionally choose Bernstein if I want emotional drama. Chailly's Mahler never really excites me. I once saw Chailly's Mahler described as (something like) "Mahler as dressage". That feels apt - it might be beautiful but it lacks emotional drive for me. I am ashamed to say that I have never really listened to Bertini and I rarely reach for Tilson Thomas these days, also. 

If I really had to choose a cycle (which would not be nice to have to do), it would probably be Haitink or Boulez.


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## Lisztianwagner (2 mo ago)

Neo Romanza said:


> I'm not sure, but it just doesn't seem like Solti's Mahler gets much love, but I"m glad this isn't the case with you. Karajan is a great Mahlerian! His recording of the 6th is my reference recording. I've never heard it played like this by anyone. An absolute exhilarating performance. And, yes, it is too bad he didn't record the whole cycle. I believe he only recorded the 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th (twice) and _Das Lied von der Erde_, which, I'll be honest, didn't really click with me. There are so many other _Das Lied_ recordings that I prefer over Karajan. If you haven't heard the Jurowski recording on Pentatone, then please do so. It's remarkable.





Monsalvat said:


> Mahlerian used to be a very knowledgeable commenter (moderator at one point) on this forum and he _despised_ Karajan's recording of Mahler's Sixth. Accused Karajan of altering balances, tempi and phrasing, distorting it away from Mahler's directions. I don't have such an encyclopedic knowledge of Mahler's Sixth; Karajan definitely sounds different in places, such as the end of the first movement, from what I recall, but I certainly didn't have a visceral reaction to it. It's a recording I'm glad to have but would never recommend as a first choice. At the very least Karajan's Mahler is controversial. See the comment chain here (there's actually a half-decent debate here): Karajan's Mahler 6


Agreed, Karajan's 6th is such an astounding recording, it has an overwhelming energy and incredible emotional intensity, but it is also very introspective and thoughtful when needed; the orchestral timbres stand out accurately and they are always well handled, as well as dynamics, phrasing and tempi; besides the powerful, passionate element is never too exaggerated, because it is perfectly balanced by a great beauty of the sound. It may sound different compared to other recordings, but it doesn't give an annoying impression, I concur about that. I'm the opposite and I would recommend it as a first choice; but maybe the very very first one would be Bernstein. 
Yes, he only recorded the 4th, 5th, the 6th, the 9th twice and _Das Lied von der Erde, _without counting the Lieder; I like his _Das Lied_ very much, it is my favourite along with the Haitink. I don't know Jurowski's recording, I'll look for it if I have the chance.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Salonen is a terrific Mahler conductor. I heard him do the 7th in LA and it was just spectacular. When he first made an appearance decades ago a lot of thought he was just another young, pretty boy with a baton - but he was - is - the real deal. A very fine conductor who will no doubt keep the San Francisco Mahler traditions going strong.


I agree. Salonen is an amazing musician and knowledgeable about the music he chooses to conduct.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Monsalvat said:


> Mahlerian used to be a very knowledgeable commenter (moderator at one point) on this forum and he _despised_ Karajan's recording of Mahler's Sixth. Accused Karajan of altering balances, tempi and phrasing, distorting it away from Mahler's directions. I don't have such an encyclopedic knowledge of Mahler's Sixth; Karajan definitely sounds different in places, such as the end of the first movement, from what I recall, but I certainly didn't have a visceral reaction to it. It's a recording I'm glad to have but would never recommend as a first choice. At the very least Karajan's Mahler is controversial. See the comment chain here (there's actually a half-decent debate here): Karajan's Mahler 6


A follow-up to my previous response. One thing that did bother me about Mahlerian was him telling other people _how_ to listen to a piece of music. For example, on another forum, I posted that sometimes I love just listening to the _Der Abschied_ movement only from _Das Lied_ and he told me this was a wrong-headed way to listen to the work and that I must listen to the entire work in order to understand Mahler's intentions. Ummm...yeah. There isn't a wrong way to listen to any music as long as you're _listening_. That's what is most important.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Neo Romanza said:


> A follow-up to my previous response. One thing that did bother me about Mahlerian was him telling other people _how_ to listen to a piece of music. For example, on another forum, I posted that sometimes I love just listening to the _Der Abschied_ movement only from _Das Lied_ and he told me this was a wrong-headed way to listen to the work and that I must listen to the entire work in order to understand Mahler's intentions. Ummm...yeah. There isn't a wrong way to listen to any music as long as you're _listening_. That's what is most important.


Precisely! There are so different takes on the Mahler symphonies that for me they are even artistically different entities. Who is to say what is the definite version? For example, Bernstein´s 2nd is very far indeed from Jurowski´s 2nd.

Does anyone know if there is a Mahler tradition that would somehow be based on the way Mahler himself conducted the pieces? Could there somehow be a weighty tradition that Mengelberg, a friend of Mahler, would have established at the Concertgebouw?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> ..... only one never seems to get an airing (Gergiev's cycle, which I not only find brash, but I am also unhappy to listen to anything produced by Putin's little rentboy)


Hahaha. It is "brash" and a bit unsubtle, CnC, and it's certainly a ragged cycle but there are a few very good recordings in there (I really like his 6th and especially his 7th). The biggest problem with that cycle isn't Gergiev's fault but the poor acoustic of the Barbican which is flat. On a few of my discs the volume is a bit low too.


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## feierlich (3 mo ago)

It's not a complete cycle but SWR Classic released a set of Rosbaud's recording of Mahler symphonies and _Das Lied von der Erde _(the 7th was previously released by Wergo, powerful performance. The 5th with Kölner Rundfunk-Sinfonie Orchester was previously released by ICA, which I think is fairly well-known and widely praised). Not my favourite (which would be Boulez/Gielen/Neumann), just thought I should mention it.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I think I have more than 10 favourite cycles!
At the moment I’d narrow it down to:

Tennstedt
Sinopolii
Boulez
Bernstein (NYP)
Bertini


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

What do Mahler fans think of the Gielen cycle? I bought a copy because it was on sale cheap at JPC several years ago but I rarely get inspired to listen to it.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Skimming through it seems that no one has yet to mention Dimitri Mitropoulos; one of the few Mahler champions before Leonard Bernstein made it fashionable. The Mitroupoulos/Mahler cycle on the following box set is incomplete (no _2nd_, _4th_, or _DLVDE_):










The above set includes an abridged recording of the _3rd_ that is not as outstanding as the one that Mitroupoulos recorded in Europe shortly before his death:










Mitropoulos' take on Mahler is very sincere, enthusiastic, and free: wonderful; despite the limitations of antiquated sound technology. Given the friendship between Mitropoulos and Bernstein, I often wonder if Mitropoulos, who died in 1961, was the inspiration behind Bernstein's first Mahler cycle. 

Dimitri Mitropoulos flanked by Herbert Von Karajan and Leonard Bernstein:


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> I think I have more than 10 favourite cycles!
> At the moment I’d narrow it down to:
> 
> Tennstedt
> ...


Great choices! Good to see Tennstedt, Sinopoli and Boulez on your list. I feel these Mahlerians don't get discussed enough!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

starthrower said:


> What do Mahler fans think of the Gielen cycle? I bought a copy because it was on sale cheap at JPC several years ago but I rarely get inspired to listen to it.


Honestly, not much. It's not because I think Gielen is 'bad' conductor on the contrary, but there are so many other conductors who have more to say in Mahler's music than Gielen. He was quite fine in the more gnarly symphonies like the 7th and 9th (he had a field day in the _Rondo-Burleske_ from the 9th for example). These two symphonies seem to play more to his own sensibilities. On a side note, his various recordings of Schoenberg, Berg and Webern are quite fine and he seems especially energized in the post-war avant-garde.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Then there is the Maurice Abravanel who (I think) did the SECOND complete Mahler cycle after Bernstein. Abravanel brought Mahler and old Vienna to the heart of the American West, Mormon country, as the conductor of the second (or third?) rate Utah Symphony Orchestra. Some may call it Mahler on a budget. While not on the same tier as Bernstein/New York, Solti/Chicago, or the many recordings made with the Concertgebouw, or the London, Vienna or Berlin Philharmonic Orchestras; Abravanel and the Utah band can hold their own, playing with great sincerity, and effort; a great Mahler cycle for those who enjoy cheering for the underdog!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Coach G said:


> Then there is the Maurice Abravanel who (I think) did the SECOND complete Mahler cycle after Bernstein. Abravanel brought Mahler and old Vienna to the heart of the American West, Mormon country, as the conductor of the second (or third?) rate Utah Symphony Orchestra. Some may call it Mahler on a budget. While not on the same tier as Bernstein/New York, Solti/Chicago, or the many recordings made with the Concertgebouw, or the London, Vienna or Berlin Philharmonic Orchestras; Abravanel and the Utah band can hold their own, playing with great sincerity, and effort; a great Mahler cycle for those who enjoy cheering for the underdog!
> 
> View attachment 179162



I bought that box years many years ago ago at a drugstore for FL 10. about 4 euro


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

starthrower said:


> What do Mahler fans think of the Gielen cycle? I bought a copy because it was on sale cheap at JPC several years ago but I rarely get inspired to listen to it.


I like it a lot and similarly rate Gielen's Beethoven Symphony cycle highly however I, too, rarely reach for it when I want to play Mahler but tbh I rarely reach for any of my cycles and just pick individual Mahler discs so Gielen is not alone. If I'm playing music from my HD then Chailly (both), Gielen, Bertini and Neumann tend to get picked a little more than others. The last Mahler *CDs* I played were Kubelik (Audite) for the 1st, Honeck for the 4th, Zander for the 9th and Gergiev for the 7th (not cos they are my faves, btw, but they are all very good at least).


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I suppose it's a case of having too many recordings at our disposal. I have listened Gielen's Schoenberg/Berg/Webern box more than his Mahler. I was tempted to buy that nice looking 10th Edition of post war composers but I've already got a number of those works so I'll probably take a pass.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Waehnen said:


> Does anyone know if there is a Mahler tradition that would somehow be based on the way Mahler himself conducted the pieces? Could there somehow be a weighty tradition that Mengelberg, a friend of Mahler, would have established at the Concertgebouw?


Regrettably, there is not. We have performances on record of the 2nd by three conductors who knew and worked with Mahler: Oskar Fried, Bruno Walter, and Otto Klemperer. They are all quite different. Same with the 4th: Walter and Mengelberg couldn't be more un-alike. The Ninth will always be a question and DLVDE, too. Walter had close contract with Mahler as they were being written, Klemperer didn't' and again they take really opposite approaches. Mahler as we all know made zillions of minute detailes in his scores and hoped to give the performers a guide as to how he wanted the music played, but as we know all too well those instructions are either ignored or interpreted a million ways. I do not believe there is a wrong or right way to play Mahler: just be honest and let the music move! It cannot be sanitized, smoothed over or be played tepidly. Bernstein really tromps all over the score markings yet somehow seems to get to the heart of the matter much more than anyone else. Then there's Boulez who does try to follow each and every marking and realize what Mahler indicated. Yet, I find Boulez' recordings quite sterile and devoid of passion - and they're just about the best played ones out there.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> Regrettably, there is not. We have performances on record of the 2nd by three conductors who knew and worked with Mahler: Oskar Fried, Bruno Walter, and Otto Klemperer. They are all quite different. Same with the 4th: Walter and Mengelberg couldn't be more un-alike. The Ninth will always be a question and DLVDE, too. Walter had close contract with Mahler as they were being written, Klemperer didn't' and again they take really opposite approaches. Mahler as we all know made zillions of minute detailes in his scores and hoped to give the performers a guide as to how he wanted the music played, but as we know all too well those instructions are either ignored or interpreted a million ways. I do not believe there is a wrong or right way to play Mahler: just be honest and let the music move! It cannot be sanitized, smoothed over or be played tepidly. Bernstein really tromps all over the score markings yet somehow seems to get to the heart of the matter much more than anyone else. Then there's Boulez who does try to follow each and every marking and realize what Mahler indicated. Yet, I find Boulez' recordings quite sterile and devoid of passion - and they're just about the best played ones out there.


Don't forget F. Charles Adler who was the chorus master for the premiere of the 8th.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> Regrettably, there is not. We have performances on record of the 2nd by three conductors who knew and worked with Mahler: Oskar Fried, Bruno Walter, and Otto Klemperer. They are all quite different. Same with the 4th: Walter and Mengelberg couldn't be more un-alike. The Ninth will always be a question and DLVDE, too. Walter had close contract with Mahler as they were being written, Klemperer didn't' and again they take really opposite approaches. Mahler as we all know made zillions of minute detailes in his scores and hoped to give the performers a guide as to how he wanted the music played, but as we know all too well those instructions are either ignored or interpreted a million ways. I do not believe there is a wrong or right way to play Mahler: just be honest and let the music move! It cannot be sanitized, smoothed over or be played tepidly. Bernstein really tromps all over the score markings yet somehow seems to get to the heart of the matter much more than anyone else. Then there's Boulez who does try to follow each and every marking and realize what Mahler indicated. Yet, I find Boulez' recordings quite sterile and devoid of passion - and they're just about the best played ones out there.


For some reason I prefer Bernstein´s versions on video! His live takes on Mahler and Sibelius and many others are outstanding and for some reason they SOUND better than the studio recordings. Like these two, both magnificent:


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Waehnen said:


> Does anyone know if there is a Mahler tradition that would somehow be based on the way Mahler himself conducted the pieces? Could there somehow be a weighty tradition that Mengelberg, a friend of Mahler, would have established at the Concertgebouw?


My money would be on Mengelberg. He started the Mahler tradition in Amsterdam and performed all of his symphonies in 1920 during the first "Mahler Festival". His annotated scores are a valuable source of information for performance, since some have been used by Mahler himself, and contain his markings.
Mengelberg tried to promote Mahler's music at a time when it was at its most unpopular, not only in Amsterdam but also in New York. Unfortunately we only have recordings of the 4th symphony, the adagietto of the 5th and the Lieder eines Fahrenden Gesellen. But I'm convinced that the famous 1939 4th is as closest to Mahler's style as one can get, closer than Walther's or Klemperer's.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Becca said:


> Don't forget F. Charles Adler who was the chorus master for the premiere of the 8th.


I suppose the best we could do is compare that 8th to the Stokowski - but Stokie never cared what a composer's vision was anyway.


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## Zarzuela (Feb 8, 2017)

RobertJTh said:


> My money would be on Mengelberg. He started the Mahler tradition in Amsterdam and performed all of his symphonies in 1920 during the first "Mahler Festival". His annotated scores are a valuable source of information for performance, since some have been used by Mahler himself, and contain his markings.
> Mengelberg tried to promote Mahler's music at a time when it was at its most unpopular, not only in Amsterdam but also in New York. Unfortunately we only have recordings of the 4th symphony, the adagietto of the 5th and the Lieder eines Fahrenden Gesellen. But I'm convinced that the famous 1939 4th is as closest to Mahler's style as one can get, closer than Walther's or Klemperer's.


Coincidentally, I just watched the Blu-ray of Chailly's Mahler 6. In a bonus interview, he's asked why his Mahler interpretations had changed so much from his earlier Concertgebouw recordings. He said that before he had felt the weight of tradition and the necessity of following Mengelberg's lead, and he no longer did so. As it happens, I don't respond at all to his earlier, highly praised cycle (Hurwitz ranked it No. 1), but I Iike what I've heard in his Leipzig video recordings.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I received the Gabriel Feltz symphony box set today and it looks quite nice I must say. The 14 CDs are housed in a clamshell case with CD sleeves. Each CD sleeve has the original issued cover art, so this was a nice touch. I'm not sure when I'll even be able to get around to this box set as my backlog is quite vast at this juncture.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> I suppose the best we could do is compare that 8th to the Stokowski - but Stokie never cared what a composer's vision was anyway.


I was only meaning Adler as a conductor who worked with Mahler. The one recording of his that I am familiar with is the 3rd, no 8th that I know of.


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