# Its July 4th



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Since its July 4th I started the day by listening to Aaron Copland's "Lincoln Portrait". I'd forgotten how much I really didn't care for it, which is unusual because I LOVE Copland's music generally (both the populist and modern works). "Lincoln Portrait" just seems so pretentious and needlessly over the top with patriotic chest beating. "Fanfare for the Common Man" on the other hand makes me feel more patriotic in three minutes than anything else could, especially considering the purpose for which it was written.

Here's what I think is sad though about America's general lack of cultural knowledge: all across the country people will be watching fireworks displays and many will be listening to radio broadcasts of music or live symphonic concerts. What's the most often played concert piece to go with the fireworks? Not "Stars and Stripes Forever", not "Fanfare for the Common Man", but TCHAIKOVSKY'S 1812 Overture, a RUSSIAN composer's depiction of Russia's victory over the FRENCH.

Sigh.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't give a:









Martin, Canada


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Olias said:


> [...]
> Here's what I think is sad though about America's general lack of cultural knowledge: all across the country people will be watching fireworks displays and many will be listening to radio broadcasts of music or live symphonic concerts. What's the most often played concert piece to go with the fireworks? Not "Stars and Stripes Forever", not "Fanfare for the Common Man", but TCHAIKOVSKY'S 1812 Overture, a RUSSIAN composer's depiction of Russia's victory over the FRENCH.
> 
> Sigh.


We've borrowed it. At least it ain't a drinking song. 

Small towns in the US mostly don't have orchestras - we have community bands. The Springfield Vermont community band will be giving a concert tonight. Sousa will be represented.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Well, along with the 1812 will be a large assortment of American songs; it's just that the 1812 is an orchestral boombox. 

Of course, my band will be playing all American songs today in Cross Plains, so we'll be doing our part to uphold American culture.


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I don't give a:
> 
> View attachment 6073
> 
> ...


Yes, why didn't we have an "It's July 1" thread three days ago?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Glazunov wrote his Triumphal March op. 40 for a tour he had of the US in 1892. He used the anthem "My Eyes have seen the Glory" in it, although the version with different words which I can't remember. It's quite popular for that reason.

One of my favorite American works. Enjoy, and have a great day!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Yes, why didn't we have an "It's July 1" thread three days ago?


Well... why didn't you?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Who cares about Canadian composers?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Toddlertoddy said:


> Who cares about Canadian composers?


Are there any uniquely 'Canadian' composers? LOL.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

Wow. Really guys?


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> One of my favorite American works. Enjoy, and have a great day! [Hanson symphony 2]


Sorry, didn't enjoy. It sounds "orchestrated" - the scoring for orchestra was laboured and unimaginative, as were the thematic ideas and harmony.

Maybe because Hanson isn't/wasn't a mainstream conductor, the performance has an air of caution about it, of a run through almost. It ground to a halt in the first slow section (in an allegro con brio??).

Roy Harris it ain't.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Yes, why didn't we have an "It's July 1" thread three days ago?


YEAH YOU COMPLETELY MISSED MY BIRTHDAY

What the hell is 4th of July anyway?


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Well... why didn't you?


I wasn't able to be on TC on July 1st .


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Toddlertoddy said:


> Who cares about Canadian composers?


_I_ do, but only because competition adjudicators like Canadian music and you can make big money playing them!


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

July 4 was the day that the Congress of the U.S. approved the wording of the Declaration of Independence.

The thing was signed on the 2nd of August, which doesn't have nearly the rhythmic snap of "4th of July," so being snappy, the U.S. decided to celebrate independence from the Brits on the 4th of July.

It's the day when all patriotic Americans listen to the very best American music: Cage, Feldman, Ives, Varese, Truax, Westerkamp, Normandeau, Calon, Ferreyra, Mandolini, Justel, Kasem, Estrada and maybe even some composers from Central America, too.*

*These are from the U.S., Canada, Mexico, and Argentina.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I wish a happy 4th July to our American members. Well, belatedly now, I think. By coincidence, I took out a cd I bought last year for a first listen. John Cage's sonatas and interludes for prepared piano, played by Australian composer/pianist Nigel Butterley. These two guys knew eachother, and it was Butterley who gave the first performances of these and other Cage works here in the 1950's and '60's. There are many strong connections like this between American and Australian musicians, esp. since 1945.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> YEAH YOU COMPLETELY MISSED MY BIRTHDAY
> 
> What the hell is 4th of July anyway?


Something to do with America, otherwise, no idea.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

It's the day when the world celebrates being separated from America. Also known as independence day.

I have a feeling it involves eating.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

LordBlackudder said:


> It's the day when the world celebrates being separated from America. Also known as independence day.
> 
> I have a feeling it involves eating.


Well I'm glad I'm not American then.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Well I'm glad I'm not American then.


Eating is not emphasized. Being a warm weather holiday, beer may be consumed. *And* there are often reminders of our Chinese heritage - the fire department is supervising fireworks at the state airport as I type.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Actual quote from the Declaration of Independence:

"... It ought to be commemorated, as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp, shews, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of the continent to the other, from this time forward forever..."


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

What are Americans celebrating? The death of their forefather's vision?


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja, that is NOT a quote from the Declaration of Independence, actual or not.

It's from a letter written on the 3rd of July by John Adams to his wife about celebrating the 2nd of July. The final wording for the declaration was ratified on the 4th.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

some guy said:


> Huilunsoittaja, that is NOT a quote from the Declaration of Independence, actual or not.
> 
> It's from a letter written on the 3rd of July by John Adams to his wife about celebrating the 2nd of July. The final wording for the declaration was ratified on the 4th.


Oh thank you for correcting me, much appreciated. I noticed before in the quote (that I didn't post that) it was said on July 2 of 1776.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> What are Americans celebrating? The death of their forefather's vision?


A true republic may still be a possibility - somewhere other than in the US or Canada.


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> A true republic may still be a possibility - somewhere other than in the US or Canada.


Does anybody know where?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

sah said:


> Does anybody know where?


Utopia is out of the question. They're a communist state.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

sah said:


> Does anybody know where?


Hoping this is trustworthy source


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Hoping this is trustworthy source


LOL Cuba is "communist" and a republic?!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Stuff that maybe only I find interesting: the 4th of July was originally promoted as a national holiday by Jeffersonians in an attempt to emphasize his contribution to the Revolution. Federalists responded by promoting George Washington's birthday. 

To me the most patriotic thing to do is to listen to Ives, especially his holidays symphony, which is just good music anyway. Someone pointed out that it's ironic that Americans so often listen to the 1812 overture on the 4th, as it's essentially a celebration of the survival of Tsarism. I'm afraid there may not be any irony in that in another decade or so. 

Probably another patriotic way to spend the holiday would be listening to Miles Davis, my own selection as the greatest genius in the history of American music. (I know y'all a bunch of Kid Rock fans.)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

science said:


> ...Someone pointed out that it's ironic that Americans so often listen to the 1812 overture on the 4th, as it's essentially a celebration of the survival of Tsarism...


Also ironic is that Tchaikovsky was not a supporter of Tsarism. Not judging from a letter of his I read ages ago. He said that Tsarism was absolutism, against the will of the people. Which it basically was. But like the wigs, he was probably fulfilling a commission composing 1812, regardless of his politics. However, I think that 1812 Overture has become a kind of universal pop hit. Here Down Under, I remember it being used in a TV ad to encourage people to join the army. This was in the late 1980's. It also is played at the end of open air concerts here in Summer. Quite spectacular with fireworks and fake cannons firing.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Also ironic is that Tchaikovsky was not a supporter of Tsarism. Not judging from a letter of his I read ages ago. He said that Tsarism was absolutism, against the will of the people. Which it basically was. But like the wigs, he was probably fulfilling a commission composing 1812, regardless of his politics. However, I think that 1812 Overture has become a kind of universal pop hit. Here Down Under, I remember it being used in a TV ad to encourage people to join the army. This was in the late 1980's. It also is played at the end of open air concerts here in Summer. Quite spectacular with fireworks and fake cannons firing.


SHOSTAKOVICH SYMPHONY NO. 7 "LENINGRAD" IS AWESOME. :tiphat: Much more military-like IMO.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Also ironic is that Tchaikovsky was not a supporter of Tsarism. Not judging from a letter of his I read ages ago. He said that Tsarism was absolutism, against the will of the people. Which it basically was. But like the wigs, he was probably fulfilling a commission composing 1812, regardless of his politics. However, I think that 1812 Overture has become a kind of universal pop hit. Here Down Under, I remember it being used in a TV ad to encourage people to join the army. This was in the late 1980's. It also is played at the end of open air concerts here in Summer. Quite spectacular with fireworks and fake cannons firing.


Yes, as a work of entertainment it deserves more credit than it gets, burdened by popularity.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Fake Cannons???!!! Every performance to which I've been, the cannons have been real. We get _1812 Overture_ 2X a year around here, once on Memorial Day and once at the Mayor's Concert (venues about 20 miles apart).
Also get _Stars and Stripes Forever_ at these two concerts. 

This year marks the bicentennial of Napoleon's retreat from Russia.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Lunasong said:


> Fake Cannons???!!! ....


Well they were pointed towards the audience, who were very close, so I assume they're 'fake.' When they 'fired' some sparks came out of their ends. Their sound came across as pretty natural to me, though I'm not an expert on ancient weaponry ...but the fireworks at the open air performance where real, and so was the atmosphere (you just have to 'be there' to experience these things, its 90 per cent atmosphere, or mostly about the atmosphere for me, anyway).


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