# George Frideric Handel



## TrazomGangflow

I took Handel for granted. I thought he only wrote good chamber music. Then I listened to one of his CD's and found how beautiful all of his works are. 

Sorry if this topic has already been posted. If it was couldn't find it.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Yes... the more you delve into Handel, the more you realize just how good he truly is.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Nice thread. No harm done having any thread on Handel. Overall, I strongly encourage period instrument versions of his music on recordings. It makes a world of difference.


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## mmsbls

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Nice thread. No harm done having any thread on Handel. Overall, I strongly encourage period instrument versions of his music on recordings. It makes a world of difference.


I have a modest amount of Handel and especially like the Concerto Grossi, Masses, and Water Music. I'm sure when I get time, I will listen to much more.

Do you think most (all) baroque music is best played on period instruments? If so, could you give me a general sense of why you feel that way? My daughter actually played in a baroque ensemble with period instruments (at her high school no less!) so I did get some sense of the difference, but I still feel rather ignorant.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

mmsbls said:


> I have a modest amount of Handel and especially like the Concerto Grossi, Masses, and Water Music. I'm sure when I get time, I will listen to much more.
> 
> Do you think most (all) baroque music is best played on period instruments? If so, could you give me a general sense of why you feel that way? My daughter actually played in a baroque ensemble with period instruments (at her high school no less!) so I did get some sense of the difference, but I still feel rather ignorant.


Sure. Obviously, Handel's music (and early music) are centuries old. Instruments of his day and performance practice have, like art itself, evolved over time to suit the tastes and developments of successive periods. While much of these practices are lost in time, scholars still have a pretty good idea as to what were the key attributes with regards to performance practice. Take the violin for example. I don't know if you are aware that metal strings were not used/developed on string instruments up until the late 19th century at the earliest, and before that, gut string was used. These produce a different type of sound. Coupled with orchestral pitch, tempi, extent or lack of vibrato for example, and the number of instruments that make an ensemble to play a particular piece, all these factors make a coherent contribution in total as to the final sounds one hears. Even with the case of Beethoven's five piano concertos, the late classical fortepiano was evolving rapidly over the final decades of the 18th century to the early first two decades of the 19th century where Beethoven exploited the developments to its full potential. These enormously talented composers often wrote music with particular performances in mind catering for particular singers and soloist to exploit the full potential of their voice and instruments. They knew what the final pieces would have likely sounded like when they committed quill to scroll. To ignore a few centuries of changed practices when it comes to performing these pieces is not to give many of these works a fair listening.

I read recently that it is becoming standard cirrciculum to train music students on both historically informed practice and "standard" practice as far as performing certain repertoires are concerned. That partly explains the explosion of choice we have on early music. Indeed, all of Handel's operas and oratorios (over 60 large scale works in total) have been recorded by period instrument groups.

If you prefer a modern instrument version of a Handel piece, then good for you. Good music under experienced conductors and musicians can be universal (for example the acclaimed Glen Gould recordings of Bach's keyboard works). But often I hear "Handel's music is boring" and alas I discover the listener was listening to an old version of _The Messiah_ that even I would struggle to stay awake because it sounded like a Bruckner mass!

Feel free to drop me a line if you want to known which work/recordings/ of Handel's might be worth listening.


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## presto

In my extensive collection of Baroque music I have more Handel than any other composer and there isn’t a dull movement, he is consistently on a high to inspired level.
If anyone says a particular work isn’t up to his usual standard, it will always be the performance not the music to blame!


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## haydnfan

My favorite piece of Handel is the Messiah. I think that his oratorios and his operas are his strongest works. I really enjoy his music, but Bach is my favorite composer of the baroque era.


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## presto

I often play his Recorder Sonatas and even with these seemingly small scale modest works they are incredibly Ingenious and very rewarding to play.
I love Handel even if it’s a Recorder Sonata or the great Messiah.


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## StlukesguildOhio

There is so much by Handel that has been long ignored. His early Italian cantatas are absolutely exquisite. As HarpsichordConcerto has suggested, at that point it is quite likely that Handel was the greatest living composer. As much as I love Bach, ol' Johann Sebastian had achieved nothing even suggestive of Handel's genius at that point. Other favorite works include the Alexander's Feast, the Coronation Anthems, Giulio Cesar, Solomon, the Messiah, the keyboard suites (they're no Well tempered Clavier... but they are quite lovely in their own rite)... and recently... thanks to the muscular performance by Jordi Savall I have even come around to the Water Music and Royal Fireworks which I long felt were marred by the worst elements of English music: pomposity and humorless staid conservatism.


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## Lukecash12

StlukesguildOhio said:


> There is so much by Handel that has been long ignored. His early Italian cantatas are absolutely exquisite. As HarpsichordConcerto has suggested, at that point it is quite likely that Handel was the greatest living composer. As much as I love Bach, ol' Johann Sebastian had achieved nothing even suggestive of Handel's genius at that point. Other favorite works include the Alexander's Feast, the Coronation Anthems, Giulio Cesar, Solomon, the Messiah, the keyboard suites (they're no Well tempered Clavier... but they are quite lovely in their own rite)... and recently... thanks to the muscular performance by Jordi Savall I have even come around to the Water Music and Royal Fireworks which I long felt were marred by the worst elements of English music: pomposity and humorless staid conservatism.


Don't forget the Saul oratorio! Nowadays I hear about the Messiah and think: "Why would I even other with the Messiah any more? Nice overture and pastoral, as well as that He Was Despised aria, but why even bother with it any more?" The story packed into that oratorio is much more solid, and much more involved in the actual narrative of the subject, than the Messiah. And who can hear the Dead March and it's following lament without being torn right away into the story?


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## Sid James

I like Handel a lot, but J.S. Bach not half as much. I was talking about this to a friend, and he said it could be because compared to Bach, Handel is like easy listening. It makes sense because I like light classical music a lot. I'm leaning towards it more and more now, esp. after having gotten into top-heavy things in the past few years. I needed a break, but music that was lighter but had substance, and Handel was kind of perfect for that. After hearing _The Messiah _in full for the first time on a friend's recording (under Maestro Gardiner), a live performance of it here last year sealed the deal, Handel became one of those composers who I fully trust to deliver every time, and he really has. I agree that he was very consistent in quality and style, but so was J.S. Bach. The difference for me is the lightness of Handel's music, the way he uses the strings, it's got this Italian warmth. I like the subtlety of his music, it's not foolish to compare him to say Debussy in some ways, Handel was a master of delicate colours and creating atmosphere.

I agree that the _Italian Cantatas _are superb. I also like his harpsichord piece (a set of variations) called _The Harmonious Blacksmith _and the organ concerto called _The Cuckoo and the Nightingale_. Haven't heard them for years, I'll have to get around to it sometime. I like the _Water_ and _Royal Fireworks_ musics, but rarely listen to them, they are always in my mind (ubiquitous). I've got an LP of Heinz Holliger playing his oboe concertos which I liked as well. I heard one of his _Concerti Grossi _live and I liked that, esp. how he wrote solos for two recorders. I've also got a disc of counter-tenor arias sung by our own David Hobson which I have yet to listen to. It is guaranteed to be superb. The_ Largo _from _Xerxes _is just sublime. I just got his _Horn Concerto in F major_ on a Naxos collection of horn concertos, I don't doubt it will be great.

There's only a win-win situation with Handel, as some have suggested above...


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## Lukecash12

Sid James said:


> I like Handel a lot, but J.S. Bach not half as much. I was talking about this to a friend, and he said it could be because compared to Bach, Handel is like easy listening. It makes sense because I like light classical music a lot. I'm leaning towards it more and more now, esp. after having gotten into top-heavy things in the past few years. I needed a break, but music that was lighter but had substance, and Handel was kind of perfect for that. After hearing _The Messiah _in full for the first time on a friend's recording (under Maestro Gardiner), a live performance of it here last year sealed the deal, Handel became one of those composers who I fully trust to deliver every time, and he really has. I agree that he was very consistent in quality and style, but so was J.S. Bach. The difference for me is the lightness of Handel's music, the way he uses the strings, it's got this Italian warmth. I like the subtlety of his music, it's not foolish to compare him to say Debussy in some ways, Handel was a master of delicate colours and creating atmosphere.
> 
> I agree that the _Italian Cantatas _are superb. I also like his harpsichord piece (a set of variations) called _The Harmonious Blacksmith _and the organ concerto called _The Cuckoo and the Nightingale_. Haven't heard them for years, I'll have to get around to it sometime. I like the _Water_ and _Royal Fireworks_ musics, but rarely listen to them, they are always in my mind (ubiquitous). I've got an LP of Heinz Holliger playing his oboe concertos which I liked as well. I heard one of his _Concerti Grossi _live and I liked that, esp. how he wrote solos for two recorders. I've also got a disc of counter-tenor arias sung by our own David Hobson which I have yet to listen to. It is guaranteed to be superb. The_ Largo _from _Xerxes _is just sublime. I just got his _Horn Concerto in F major_ on a Naxos collection of horn concertos, I don't doubt it will be great.
> 
> There's only a win-win situation with Handel, as some have suggested above...


Have you dug much into Handel's opera? His _Hercules_ opera stands as a pretty respectable contribution to the tradition, and his aria _Where shall I fly_ is very creative in orchestration (just look at what's going on in the G clef voices there, on the conductor's score, because it's pretty good!):






http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/7/7e/IMSLP18737-PMLP44361-HG_Band_4.pdf


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## presto

There will always be comparisons made between Bach and Handel especially as they were born in the same year, it’s impossible to say one might be better than the other. 
They lead very different lives and took very different musical career’s and it’s impossible to say who was more inspired.
I feel Handel is perhaps more approachable than Bach but that certainly doesn’t make him lightweight.
I enjoy exploring the lesser know side, I have the complete organ concertos and they are all really great works.
Anyone know his Oratorio La Resurrezione, just as good as the messiah. It’s a kaleidoscope of arias and choruses that zip you along with infectious energy.
My only worry is I’m not going to live long enough to hear all of his vast output!


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## hocket

StlukesguildOhio said:


> thanks to the muscular performance by Jordi Savall I have even come around to the Water Music and Royal Fireworks which I long felt were marred by the worst elements of English music: pomposity and humorless staid conservatism.


Have you heard Hogwood's version of the Water Music? I'd say that was anything but pompous, staid or humourless. I'll have to give the Savall recording a go some time.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

It doesn't really make much sense to compare, broadly speaking, Bach and Handel. They had very different professional careers (and even private lives as far as we know), and each represented the peak of Baroque idiom with respect to the two broad functions of Baroque (and Classical) music: that for the church and that for the theatre. The latter flowered with _opera seria_ and the oratorio during the Baroque.

Bach was a local composer who spent many years of maturity in Leipzig supplying church music and earning a lower middle class income, whereas Handel was an entrepreneur of international standing that took on his own business risk as well as aristocratic support gaining a solid hold of English society music post Purcell via the theatres (he was the first great cosmopolitan composer in the modern sense of the word). Fugues and complex counterpoint saw no place in the theatre during evenings where wealthy patrons came to be entertained and to be seen, whereas densely worked out variations of a given theme made up the evenings for a small circle of good students in Leipzig. When Bach died in 1750, Handel still had another nine years left ahead, though semi-retired, he was the greatest living composer then (Haydn was still a young lad in his twenties by then), and I would even say Handel was also the greatest living composer when both Bach and Handel were young lads in their twenties and maybe even thirties. As member presto suggested regarding Handel's second large scale oratorio, _La Resurrezione_ of 1708, Handel was only 23 years old when that was written and already under powerful aristocratic Italian patronage (Francesco Ruspoli). Bach at that age was probably displaying his talents more as an organ virtuoso in a local court orchestra and churches at Mühlhausen and Weimar.


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## Sid James

Lukecash12 said:


> Have you dug much into Handel's opera? His _Hercules_ opera stands as a pretty respectable contribution to the tradition, and his aria _Where shall I fly_ is very creative in orchestration (just look at what's going on in the G clef voices there, on the conductor's score, because it's pretty good!):


Thanks for posting, yes it was excellent, very dramatic. I know this singer, Ms Kozena, I listened to a disc of hers last year which incl. Britten's _A Charm of Lullabies_. I remember that as I later went to hear that work in a song recital. Anyway, the disc of Handel opera songs from which that song was taken is well worth getting for me. I will keep it in mind, thanks, but I've yet to get through the David Hobson disc I mentioned of Handel counter-tenor songs/arias.



presto said:


> ...I feel Handel is perhaps more approachable than Bach but that certainly doesn't make him lightweight...


I agree, I say this all the time, there is a difference between light and lightweight. I think they are two very different things. Light or lighter music still has a lot of content and bears repeated listening, but lightweight music gets boring after more than say a couple of listens. Handel's music is definitely of the former and not latter type, plus he is pure genius...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Literally the devil's aria from _La Resurrezione_ (1708) by the 23 year old. Dramatic powers and strong characterisation already immediately apparent.


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## Sid James

^^ That's good (it was my first time listen to that, thanks) but I have found this other bass-baritone aria very memorable for years -

"O ruddier than the cherry" from Acis and Galatea, HWV 49


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## presto

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Literally the devil's aria from _La Resurrezione_ (1708) by the 23 year old. Dramatic powers and strong characterisation already immediately apparent.


The wonderful bass David Thomas, not seen him in many years, guess he must of retired now. 
He was a very active Handel singer 20 or so years ago, I miss him, I remember him having a remarkable stage presence.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

presto said:


> The wonderful bass David Thomas, not seen him in many years, guess he must of retired now.
> He was a very active Handel singer 20 or so years ago, I miss him, I remember him having a remarkable stage presence.


If you enjoy the bass voice of David Thomas, and The Academy of Ancient Music under Hogwood with Emma Kirkby and James Bowman, I can recommend their CD recording of the opera, _Orlando_. First rate.


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## Lukecash12

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> If you enjoy the bass voice of David Thomas, and The Academy of Ancient Music under Hogwood with Emma Kirkby and James Bowman, I can recommend their CD recording of the opera, _Orlando_. First rate.


Orlando is a pretty great piece of work, so I think I'll have to look into that CD.


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## SpleenyRobert

When I first saw "Xerxes" it seemed strangely like a precursor to "Marriage of Figaro" in some of the plot lines.


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## shangoyal

Listening to Water Music, my first tryst with Handel. Dude kicked some serious *** back in the day, Beethoven didn't like him for nothing. There's such rhythmic propulsion in his music.


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## Blake

Handel is great, for sure. I need to venture out beyond his Concerti Grossi and Organ Concertos, which are amazing.


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## mstar

SpleenyRobert said:


> When I first saw "Xerxes" it seemed strangely like a precursor to "Marriage of Figaro" in some of the plot lines.


Xerxes connects with Battle of Thermopylae for me, so I guess I'd better venture out exploring more into the musical-historical-related world....


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## Blake

shangoyal said:


> Listening to Water Music, my first tryst with Handel. Dude kicked some serious *** back in the day, *Beethoven didn't like him for nothing*. There's such rhythmic propulsion in his music.


Where did you hear this from? Beethoven adored Handel. He said he would kneel at his grave if he had the chance.

Maybe you were joking? Hard to tell....


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## hpowders

Wow! George! I had to go three pages to find you! Shows you what we're dealing with here. 

Just want to thank you for the magnificent Giulio Cesare.

Regards from the New World!

hpowders


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## Guest

What's the deal with Giulio Caesar? I see how highly it's regarded and all, but I haven't heard it yet because the thought of a baroque opera with the length of a Wagner opera sounds somewhat frightening. (Actually, anything with the length of a Wagner opera is initially frightening, so this is, perhaps, illogical behavior on my part)


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## hpowders

Semele and Jeptha are also terrific works by Handel.


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## clavichorder

Those concerto grosso are pretty great!


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## deggial

arcaneholocaust said:


> What's the deal with Giulio Caesar? I see how highly it's regarded and all, but I haven't heard it yet because the thought of a baroque opera with the length of a Wagner opera sounds somewhat frightening. (Actually, anything with the length of a Wagner opera is initially frightening, so this is, perhaps, illogical behavior on my part)


watch and worship, mate  nobody says you should listen in one go, you're not in the theatre.


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## hpowders

The Glyndebourne is my favorite performance of Giulio Cesare. The Met in its latest performances used the same scenery and staging, but disappointingly, the singers (except for the two singers that performed in both productions) were not up to the Glyndebourne standard.


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## ArtMusic

Handel's music was exceptionally rich in vocal inventions. And he was a very gifted melodist.


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## hpowders

Time for me to play Giulio Cesare again. It's been 6 weeks. I miss it.


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## Marcel

I begin with The Messiah. Then I was followed with the óperas and oratorios. I love Händel music over others.


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## hpowders

It's not "The Messiah" by the way. Simply "Messiah". I love Händel too, especially Giulio Cesare.


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## SixFootScowl

Marcel said:


> I begin with The Messiah. Then I was followed with the óperas and oratorios. I love Händel music over others.


Messiah is a wonderful work. I have four different performances of Messiah on my MP3 player, one sung in German. I also have Handel's Esther, Nabal, Israel In Egypt, and Chandos Anthems.


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## Marcel

StlukesguildOhio said:


> There is so much by Handel that has been long ignored. His early Italian cantatas are absolutely exquisite. As HarpsichordConcerto has suggested, at that point it is quite likely that Handel was the greatest living composer. As much as I love Bach, ol' Johann Sebastian had achieved nothing even suggestive of Handel's genius at that point. Other favorite works include the Alexander's Feast, the Coronation Anthems, Giulio Cesar, Solomon, the Messiah, the keyboard suites (they're no Well tempered Clavier... but they are quite lovely in their own rite)... and recently... thanks to the muscular performance by Jordi Savall I have even come around to the Water Music and Royal Fireworks which I long felt were marred by the worst elements of English music: pomposity and humorless staid conservatism.


Händel is my great love. I "discover" his music in 2004. Also today I hear Stradella, Antonio Caldara, Bononcini, Alessandro Scarlatti, Porpora, Jommeli and Corelli but the first is Händel.


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## hpowders

I have a few performances of Giulio Cesare. I never get tired of it.


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## hpowders

Bad day for HIP lovers like me. One of its brightest lights, Christopher Hogwood died today.
I remember his performance of Handel's Messiah. It rocked!!

RIP Maestro Hogwood! :tiphat:


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## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> Bad day for HIP lovers like me. One of its brightest lights, Christopher Hogwood died today.
> I remember his performance of Handel's Messiah. It rocked!!
> 
> RIP Maestro Hogwood! :tiphat:


He'll always have a place in my home.


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## hpowders

Lukecash12 said:


> He'll always have a place in my home.


His recordings will never die. I bought one just last week, where he was conducting the Mozart Horn Concertos.


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## Lukecash12

hpowders said:


> His recordings will never die. I bought one just last week, where he was conducting the Mozart Horn Concertos.


That sounds awesome. Maybe after tax season is through and I've done all of my clients returns and my own, I'll use my refund to start indulging in Hogwood recordings again. It's been over a year and I've always liked Mozart's Horn Concertos. But when I think Hogwood I most often think of late Baroque music like our friend Handel here. If Scherchen's Messiah wasn't so near and dear to me I would probably go with Hogwood.

This is so utterly anachronistic but I could care less with recordings from that time and take it for what it is: an otherworldly recording.






Now this record alone is reason enough to keep my grandfather's record player (it's a pretty damned old record player, maybe pre WWII). It was his record too, so when I play it they, my grandparents, seem to be right there with me. Not too long from now we will be listening to it together once again.


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## hpowders

Lukecash12 said:


> That sounds awesome. Maybe after tax season is through and I've done all of my clients returns and my own, I'll use my refund to start indulging in Hogwood recordings again. It's been over a year and I've always liked Mozart's Horn Concertos. But when I think Hogwood I most often think of late Baroque music like our friend Handel here. If Scherchen's Messiah wasn't so near and dear to me I would probably go with Hogwood.
> 
> This is so utterly anachronistic but I could care less with recordings from that time and take it for what it is: an otherworldly recording.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this record alone is reason enough to keep my grandfather's record player (it's a pretty damned old record player, maybe pre WWII). It was his record too, so when I play it they, my grandparents, seem to be right there with me. Not too long from now we will be listening to it together once again.


I love HIP, but regarding the horn, I have to make an exception-I prefer the modern French horn-easier to play in tune. I have yet to hear a natural horn player in the Mozart horn concertos who produces a pleasing sound and that includes the guy in the Hogwood performance. So I wouldn't recommend it to you.


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## science

Any lovers of _Athalia_ here?


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## hpowders

What is that like Ebola?


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## Esterhazy

I just finished listening to the opera Tamerlano conducted by Alan Curtis. It was fantastic. Surely will be going back for another listen soon.


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## Stavrogin

Esterhazy said:


> I just finished listening to the opera Tamerlano conducted by Alan Curtis. It was fantastic. Surely will be going back for another listen soon.


Peter! Is that you?


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## Blake

This is a really nice disc.


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## hpowders

So many nice discs.....so little nice money....


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## Guest

Alright - at long last, I am going to try and give Handel a real go. Of all the baroque composers (at least the major ones), he seems to interest me least. Sure, I pull out my copy of Messiah once a year and give it a good listen, but that is about it. So I think I am going to explore him some more and see if I can't try and generate a greater fondness for this baroque giant.

In my library, I admit, his albums are poorly represented - at least in number. What I have are the following:
Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks - I have two recordings, one with Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert, the other with Jordi Savall and Le Concert des Nations
Messiah - the Higginbotham recording on Naxos
Gloria and Dixit Dominis on BIS with Kirkby and von Otter
The Coronation Anthems and Concerti a due cori with Trevor Pinnock and the English Concert
The Violin Sonatas with Andrew Manze and Richard Egarr

I know people rave about his operas, but I'm not a huge opera fan, and other than the Purcell Dido and Aeneas, I don't much care for Baroque opera.


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## Blake

Has anyone checked out the organ concertos arranged for piano (Matthias Kirschnereit) from CPO? I'm intrigued... it sounds great from the samples.


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## Blake

Vesuvius said:


> Has anyone checked out the organ concertos arranged for piano (Matthias Kirschnereit) from CPO? I'm intrigued... it sounds great from the samples.
> 
> View attachment 52751
> 
> View attachment 52752


Alright, these "piano" concertos are excellent. Particularly when you realize that the modern piano can do everything the baroque keyboards could... just more. Also, putting into consideration that Handel was well aware of the limitations of his contemporary instruments, and would push for innovation. These are great performances.


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## hpowders

Needless to say, I disagree. The harpsichord produces an edginess and tension that the piano cannot.

But since I am not the Czar of Classical Music, you can still listen to baroque on piano all you want...in hiding...at your own risk. :tiphat:

If I ever do become Czar, I will submit all piano baroque posts for "special handeling".


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## Blake

hpowders said:


> Needless to say, I disagree. The harpsichord produces an edginess and tension that the piano cannot.
> 
> But since I am not the Czar of Classical Music, you can still listen to baroque on piano all you want...in hiding...at your own risk. :tiphat:
> 
> If I ever do become Czar, I will submit all piano baroque posts for "special handeling".


Well, you better hope I'm merciful to your kind if I ever become Czar. :tip hat:

And these concertos were original performed on the organ... not the harpsidinkle.


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## Bulldog

Vesuvius said:


> Well, you better hope I'm merciful to your kind if I ever become Czar. :tip hat:
> 
> And these concertos were original performed on the organ... not the harpsidinkle.


I'll assume that the soloist played the piano because he doesn't know how to play the organ; that's the only answer that makes sense. Also, I'm disappointed that the CPO cover refers to the works as "piano concertos"; that's not an honest presentation.


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## Blake

Bulldog said:


> *I'll assume that the soloist played the piano because he doesn't know how to play the organ*; that's the only answer that makes sense. Also, I'm disappointed that the CPO cover refers to the works as "piano concertos"; that's not an honest presentation.


That sounds like way too cheap of a thesis for a label as distinguished as CPO. I truly feel they wanted to do something a little different. Give new life to old works. I enjoy the original presentation of this with the organ, but what's with this neurotic obsession in being loyal to traditional limitations? And it's not like it wanders that far off the beaten path. It's a modern keyboard playing keyboard concertos. Come on, now.


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## hpowders

Vesuvius said:


> Well, you better hope I'm merciful to your kind if I ever become Czar. :tip hat:
> 
> And these concertos were original performed on the organ... not the harpsidinkle.


Yes. Handel wrote some fine organ concertos.


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## Bulldog

Vesuvius said:


> That sounds like way too cheap of a thesis for a label as distinguished as CPO. I truly feel they wanted to do something a little different. Give new life to old works. I enjoy the original presentation of this with the organ, but what's with this neurotic obsession in being loyal to traditional limitations? And it's not like it wanders that far off the beaten path. It's a modern keyboard playing keyboard concertos. Come on, now.


That does it. Your visa to New Mexico has been rescinded.

Concerning the title presentation, it wouldn't kill the company to call them "Organ Concertos on the wrong instrument".


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## Blake

Bulldog said:


> Concerning the title presentation, it wouldn't kill the company to call them "Organ Concertos on the wrong instrument".


They may have figured classical fans had a wee bit of discerning power, as the piano didn't exist in Handel's time.


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## KenOC

Vesuvius said:


> They may have figured classical fans had a wee bit of discerning power, as the piano didn't exist in Handel's time.


There are pianos surviving today from the 1720s. Bach became a sales agent for Silbermann pianos in the 1740s. These were what we would call today fortepianos, but that term seems more related to the time period rather than the operating principles. Per Wiki, they're all pianos.


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## Blake

KenOC said:


> There are pianos surviving today from the 1720s. Bach became a sales agent for Silbermann pianos in the 1740s. These were what we would call today fortepianos, but that term seems more related to the time period rather than the operating principles. Per Wiki, they're all pianos.


Well, then... I'm humbled.


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## Vaneyes

Reference to Handel playing piano-forte.

http://tinyurl.com/m2nuomv


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## Blake

Only slightly humbled, I must add. Cause we all know no one composed any piano concertos at this time. -fingers crossed-


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## DeepR

Dixit Dominus: that last part is among the greatest music I've heard. Starts at 25:44


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## DeepR

Can't get enough of this performance of Mozart's arrangement


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## hpowders

Here I have to disagree. I find Mozart's tampering with Händel's great score distracting and completely unnecessary. 

Händel needed no help from the likes of Mozart!

Clarinets, be gone!!!


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## DeepR

Handel certainly didn't need any help. But if anyone is allowed to make some modifications... well then Mozart is a good candidate I'd say. I like both the original and the Mozart arrangement!


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## hpowders

I find the use of clarinets anachronistic.


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## violadude

I just listened to my first Handel opera all the way through (Giulio Cesare), not in one sitting...but hey.

I liked it a lot. Took a little bit to get used to the Late Baroque operatic style but it didn't take too long. After only listening once to this nearly 4 hour work it's all kind of blurring together at the moment but moments that stick out in my mind include Cesare's second aria, "Empio, Diro tu sei" (the vocal performance I heard was very fierce), the duet between Sesto and Cornelia that concluded the 1st act "Son Nata a Lagrimar" and Cleopatra's aria "Piangerò la sorte mia".


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## trazom

hpowders said:


> I find the use of clarinets anachronistic.


They're supposed to be. It was intended to be in a more contemporary style, suited to what the audience would've been used to. And according to Handel's biographer Paul Lang, Handel kept the orchestral accompaniment to the Messiah bare on purpose because he anticipated future adaptations of the piece by other composers, something that was very common not just in Handel's time but in Mozart's as well. Besides, Mozart did it at the encouragement of Gottfriend Van Swieten...and he needed money.


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## Richard8655

*G F Handel*

Here's to George Frederic Handel, the greatest composer of the High Baroque period (in my opinion). From exquisite, delicate, and lyrical instrumental compositions to soaring, beautiful, and grand oratorios and royal anthems. A truly international and versatile composer influenced by styles of Germany (birthplace), England, France, and Italy.


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## Pugg

What is your absolute favourite piece( es) ?


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## Richard8655

Has to be Concerti Grossi op. 6. And yours?


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## Bettina

My favorite Handel work is Giulio Cesare. Runners-up include Messiah, Solomon, and The Harmonious Blacksmith.


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## Richard8655

Those are excellent. I love them too.  (I have to get more familiar with Harmonious Blacksmith, though. Harpsichord suites.. very interesting.) 

I can't get enough of his Passacaglia for harpsichord (preferred over piano) in g minor. I wonder if you've played that piece often.


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## Pugg

Richard8655 said:


> Has to be Concerti Grossi op. 6. And yours?


I am still thinking, so much choices......


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## ArtMusic

Richard8655 said:


> Here's to George Frederic Handel, the greatest composer of the High Baroque period (in my opinion). From exquisite, delicate, and lyrical instrumental compositions to soaring, beautiful, and grand oratorios and royal anthems. A truly international and versatile composer influenced by styles of Germany (birthplace), England, France, and Italy.


Well said Richard8655. Handel's music has a lyrical quality and harmonic originality that surpasses all those until Mozart in my opinion. (Bach's idiom was more instrumental and fugal, not vocal). His operas and oratorios are sheer masterpieces, and he is one of the top five greatest opera composers of all times (Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, Puccini and Handel).

Let's keep this thread going for as long as we can!


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## Richard8655

Also well said, ArtMusic. Good comment on Bach comparison. I know you and I are strong proponents of GF on this forum.



Pugg said:


> I am still thinking, so much choices......


Very true. He was prolific and all masterworks.


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## Bettina

Richard8655 said:


> Those are excellent. I love them too.  (I have to get more familiar with Harmonious Blacksmith, though. Harpsichord suites.. very interesting.)
> 
> I can't get enough of his Passacaglia for harpsichord (preferred over piano) in g minor. I wonder if you've played that piece often.


Yes, I enjoy playing Handel's keyboard works, including his Passacaglia in g minor. I have to admit that I play them on the piano rather than the harpsichord, in large part because (sadly) I do not own a harpsichord. I wish I could be a HIP Handel player, but that's not going to happen unless someone donates a harpsichord to the cause!! :lol:


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## Richard8655

Bettina said:


> Yes, I enjoy playing Handel's keyboard works, including his Passacaglia in g minor. I have to admit that I play them on the piano rather than the harpsichord, in large part because (sadly) I do not own a harpsichord. I wish I could be a HIP Handel player, but that's not going to happen unless someone donates a harpsichord to the cause!! :lol:


Good point. Harpsichords are not the typical instrument to have in the home (and expensive too). The g minor piece is not an easy one to perform, as I've seen. It's an incredible and emotional composition for keyboard, I think.


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## Portamento

This is a great discussion going on here! Don't hurt me, but I've never listened to any Handel. Period. Any suggestions for a first-time listener?

There is also another thread on Handel, by the way, which has some nice opinions as well:
_http://www.talkclassical.com/15092-george-frideric-handel.html_

These two threads may have to be merged... :tiphat:


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## Richard8655

Portamento said:


> This is a great discussion going on here! Don't hurt me, but I've never listened to any Handel. Period. Any suggestions for a first-time listener?
> 
> There is also another thread on Handel, by the way, which has some nice opinions as well:
> _http://www.talkclassical.com/15092-george-frideric-handel.html_
> 
> These two threads may have to be merged... :tiphat:


Good idea to merge this with the other Handel thread (I didn't realize was there). Yes, welcome to Handel and as Pugg mentioned, much of his music to enjoy! Thinking about good first suggestions... others might jump in.


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## DavidA

Handel's music is absolutely superb. Totally different to his great contemporary Bach. Messiah is one of the greatest and most profound works ever written, up there with Bach Passions. Handel's other oratorios also have superb music as do his once unfashionable operas. And we have the Water and Royal Fireworks too!


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## Chronochromie

ArtMusic said:


> Well said Richard8655. Handel's music has a lyrical quality and harmonic originality that surpasses all those until Mozart in my opinion. (Bach's idiom was more instrumental and fugal, not vocal). His operas and oratorios are sheer masterpieces, and he is one of the top five greatest opera composers of all times (Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, Puccini and Handel).
> 
> Let's keep this thread going for as long as we can!


I have to plug Rameau in here, so here we go: Jean-Philippe Rameau.


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## Pugg

Richard8655 said:


> Good idea to merge this with the other Handel thread (I didn't realize was there). Yes, welcome to Handel and as Pugg mentioned, much of his music to enjoy! Thinking about good first suggestions... others might jump in.


Ask the mods, names can be found under every threads.


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## Taggart

It has been merged.

Just a reminder, please check http://www.talkclassical.com/32525-composer-guestbooks-information-index.html for more information about posting and to look in the index to see if there is already a thread on your favourite composer.

Welcome to the site Richard8655.


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## Richard8655

Thanks Taggart. Good to know.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> My favorite Handel work is Giulio Cesare. Runners-up include Messiah, Solomon, and The Harmonious Blacksmith.


Same with me. Giulio Cesare is number one. But I would also place another Handel opera, Semele, right up there near the top.


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## SixFootScowl

Messiah is at the top of my Handel list. I also have several operas, several other oratorios, Chandos Anthems and Music for Chapel Royal.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Been listening to his excellent Water Music as recorded by Kubelik , blazin'!


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## hpowders

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Been listening to his excellent Water Music as recorded by Kubelik , blazin'!


I like to play this when my butler, Waldstein, draws my bubble bath.


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## lluissineu

hpowders said:


> I like to play this when my butler, Waldstein, draws my bubble bath.


And when do you play the music for The Royal Fireworks?


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Where to begin? _Messiah_ has to be top for me, followed in no particular order by _Giulio Cesare_, _Rinaldo_, _Solomon_, _Alcina_, _Israel in Egypt_, _Tamerlano_, _Athalia_, _Ariodante_, _Saul_, _Orlando_, _Jephtha_... I could go on. And that's just some of his vocal masterpieces. I can honestly say that there are no works by Handel that I don't thoroughly enjoy - an accolade only shared, in my estimation, with Bach, Beethoven, Mahler and Wagner. Handel is simply one of the greats.


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## hpowders

lluissineu said:


> And when do you play the music for The Royal Fireworks?


When my wife and I get together semi-annually.


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## ArtMusic

It is a historical fact that Handel was the first composer who never faded out of the public performance repertoire since his death. Granted that only a few of his works were well known during the Victorian 19th century, a few of his works such as _Messiah_ kept his name and popularity alive ever since.


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## Pugg

ArtMusic said:


> It is a historical fact that Handel was the first composer who never faded out of the public performance repertoire since his death. Granted that only a few of his works were well known during the Victorian 19th century, a few of his works such as _Messiah_ kept his name and popularity alive ever since.


How about his : Concerti Grossi, they are wonderful.


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## itarbrt

Just yesterday I pick one from my Pandora box . I choose Handel . What I like of his music ? Everything .


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## hpowders

itarbrt said:


> Just yesterday I pick one from my Pandora box . I choose Handel . What I like of his music ? Everything .


Goes great with some strong Italian Espresso!!


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## Pugg

itarbrt said:


> Just yesterday I pick one from my Pandora box . I choose Handel . What I like of his music ? Everything .


Now we are curious what's more in that box.


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## ArtMusic

Pugg said:


> How about his : Concerti Grossi, they are wonderful.


They sure are. Opus 6 as as great as Bach's Brandenburg's. Handel composed one concerto at the rate of two to three days! Genius!


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## Pugg

ArtMusic said:


> They sure are. Opus 6 as as great as Bach's Brandenburg's. Handel composed one concerto at the rate of two to three days! Genius!


Completely agree.


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## Pugg

​
Remembering: 23 02
*George Frideric (or Frederick) Handel *was a German, later British, baroque composer who spent the bulk of his career in London, becoming well known for his operas, oratorios, anthems, and organ concertos. Handel received important training in Halle and worked as a composer in Hamburg and Italy before settling in ...


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## JosefinaHW

I now understand people's love of Handel's operas. This is exquisite.

Handel, "Son nata a lagrimar" _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_, Jaroussky, Lemieux


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## Star

JosefinaHW said:


> I now understand people's love of Handel's operas. This is exquisite.
> 
> Handel, "Son nata a lagrimar" _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_, Jaroussky, Lemieux


Yes!"...........


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

"Pena tiranna" from _Amadigi di Gaula_, my favourite version of what would eventually become "Lascia ch'io pianga" 






Wonderfully performed by Max Emanuel Cenčić with I Barocchisti conducted by Diego Fasolis.


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## JSBach85

I've never listened to Amadigi di Gaula before, I don't know what I am missing! Thank you for this wonderful aria, Cencic is one of my favourite countertenors and also I Barocchisti among the top baroque ensembles that is becoming one of the most specialized ensembles in baroque opera. You made my day!


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## JosefinaHW

Handel & Gerald Finley, _Arm, arm ye, Brave_ Judas Maccabeus


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## danj

What book would you guys recommend to read about Handel?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

danj said:


> What book would you guys recommend to read about Handel?


The biography by Christopher Hogwood, without a doubt.


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## Ingélou

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> The biography by Christopher Hogwood, without a doubt.


Thanks for mentioning this. Here's a link to some of the reviews. It sounds like a book I must read, when I have the time. 
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1920272.Handel


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## flamencosketches

Bump for a great composer.

I love what little I've heard of his: the Water Music suites, Music for the Royal Fireworks, Messiah, the Coronation Anthems, a few of the keyboard suites, a few of the concerti grossi, and recently Dixit Dominus. What an awesome composer. His music is so full of life, and depth, despite its popular framework. From what I can tell, he was a "pop star" composer in a way that his contemporary JS Bach never was, and his music reflects that difference; it's much more accessible, extremely melodic, sometimes light, but still rich and rewarding of repeat listens. While Handel's counterpoint is not as rich as Bach's (I've heard criticism that he does not write true fugues, whatever that might mean to someone more educated), it's still there, and he more than makes up for it with his melody. I also see him as a much more cosmopolitan composer than Bach or indeed many of his other contemporaries such as Vivaldi and Scarlatti ever were. The man had a gift, and he may have milked it for whatever it was worth and more, but the world of music is richer for it.

Who are some of our favorite conductors/musicians/interpreters of Handel? I'm a fan of Jordi Savall's Water Music/Fireworks, Neville Marriner's Coronation Anthems, Trevor Pinnock's Messiah, and I've just listened to J.E. Gardiner's Dixit Dominus and really liked it. I have a feeling his music only really works (or at least works best) in a HIP setting, but it does indeed sound great with the old instruments.

What are some of his most valuable compositions outside of those I've mentioned? I've heard several refer to Handel as the greatest opera composer of all time, but the concept of listening to 4+ hours of Baroque opera is intimidating to say the least. But I know this is probably the next step with his music.

Finally, here's one of my favorite pianists playing some Handel in a definitely-non-HIP style that I enjoy:


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## Hugo9000

flamencosketches said:


> Bump for a great composer.
> 
> I love what little I've heard of his: the Water Music suites, Music for the Royal Fireworks, Messiah, the Coronation Anthems, a few of the keyboard suites, a few of the concerti grossi, and recently Dixit Dominus. What an awesome composer. His music is so full of life, and depth, despite its popular framework. From what I can tell, he was a "pop star" composer in a way that his contemporary JS Bach never was, and his music reflects that difference; it's much more accessible, extremely melodic, sometimes light, but still rich and rewarding of repeat listens. While Handel's counterpoint is not as rich as Bach's (I've heard criticism that he does not write true fugues, whatever that might mean to someone more educated), it's still there, and he more than makes up for it with his melody. I also see him as a much more cosmopolitan composer than Bach or indeed many of his other contemporaries such as Vivaldi and Scarlatti ever were. The man had a gift, and he may have milked it for whatever it was worth and more, but the world of music is richer for it.
> 
> Who are some of our favorite conductors/musicians/interpreters of Handel? I'm a fan of Jordi Savall's Water Music/Fireworks, Neville Marriner's Coronation Anthems, Trevor Pinnock's Messiah, and I've just listened to J.E. Gardiner's Dixit Dominus and really liked it. I have a feeling his music only really works (or at least works best) in a HIP setting, but it does indeed sound great with the old instruments.
> 
> What are some of his most valuable compositions outside of those I've mentioned? I've heard several refer to Handel as the greatest opera composer of all time, but the concept of listening to 4+ hours of Baroque opera is intimidating to say the least. But I know this is probably the next step with his music.
> 
> Finally, here's one of my favorite pianists playing some Handel in a definitely-non-HIP style that I enjoy:


You might try* Semele* ("secular" oratorio) before the operas. It is shorter, and filled with exquisite music from beginning to end. The story is very good as well, with a beautiful English libretto. Those who feel English is not capable of being a musical language should perhaps listen to Handel haha! I'd recommend the superb recording featuring Kathleen Battle in the title role, led by conductor John Nelson. I think it is far and away Battle's best work, and the rest of the cast is amazing as well: Marilyn Horne, Michael Chance, Samuel Ramey... The recording with Rosemary Joshua is very good as well. _Semele_ pushes toward the three hour mark, but it's wonderful.

Next, perhaps I'd suggest *Saul*. Another glorious dramatic oratorio. Here I'd recommend the recording led by René Jacobs, with Gidon Saks as Saul and Rosemary Joshua as Michal. This one is around 2 and a half hours, if memory serves, and not a dull moment anywhere.

If you want a sampling of vocal pieces, I highly recommend the Handel duets album that Rosemary Joshua and Sarah Connolly did with Harry Bicket and The English Concert.

Handel and Verdi are my favorite composers of opera, and of vocal music in general.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Hugo9000 said:


> Next, perhaps I'd suggest *Saul*. Another glorious dramatic oratorio.


I echo that recommendation, and would add Paul McCreesh's magnificent recording of *Solomon* to the list.


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## Sid James

I've just finished reading *Handel: The Man and His Music by Jonathan Keates*, published in 1985. It is one of the more extensive composer biographies that I have read. Keates is an expert in literature and he brings that perspective when discussing the operas and oratorios. All of Handel's works, including forty operas, are discussed in depth - their composition, initial performances and revivals, audience reception and so on. I was most interested in learning about Handel as a person, the impact of his music and how it has fared over time.

I already knew about Handel's forceful personality and the book strengthened this impression. Even in an era when singers tended to have more influence than composers, Handel had the authority to face them down on numerous occasions. He was also able to deal with the intrigues of politics that where never far away from music. His alliance with King George II, his former employer at Hanover, was at times tested by the king's errant son Frederick, Prince of Wales. While the monarchy was firmly behind the Royal Academy of Music (later to become Covent Garden), Frederick helped set up a rival company called the Opera of the Nobility. This split an already stretched audience, and with the decline of opera in the 1730's Handel adapted himself to changing trends by composing oratorios. Having less production costs it initially saved money, but by the end of his career the emerging genre had proved to be more successful than all that had gone before. While his rival Bononcini died in poverty, Handel died with 20,000 pounds in the bank.

Handel's journey was not easy, and reading about all the difficulties that he overcame makes me admire his tenacity. There were many sides to him:

- An adventurous traveller whose muse led him to Italy, England and Ireland

- A man of refined literary and artistic tastes, able to speak five languages and a collector paintings (including Rembrandt)

- A foreigner (affectionately called _The Saxon_) who became a naturalised citizen of Britain and came to dominate its cultural scene

- A polymath in music with a flair for drama, an orchestrator second to none during the period, and an organ virtuoso who penned the first concertos for the instrument

- A superstar of his time. From the 1720's, he was widely known throughout Europe as a composer and performer. He was the first of only a few composers to have a statue erected in his honour during his lifetime. Originally at Vauxhall Gardens, it shows him as he would have been at home, shirt unbuttoned and a slipper half off: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Frederick_Handel_(Roubiliac)

- A composer more interested in creative ideas than originality. Handel pinched from other composers as well as recycling his own tunes. In an age that had no copyright, this was seen as more like homage rather than plagiarism. In fact, Handel owned a well-thumbed copy of Telemann's Tafelmusik and they corresponded and admired each other's music.

- Despite his often volcanic temper, Handel's nature was essentially modest. He refused an honorary doctorate offered during a successful visit to Oxford. As is well known, he was pivotal in setting up charities in Dublin and London (for orphans and retired musicians).

- Handel was extremely private regarding his personal life, including romantic relationships. Over time there have been suggestions that he was homosexual and fabrications of heterosexual relationships to counter this. The book only includes what information is known on these matters, which is not much at all. Keates aims to be objective rather than speculate on this matter, which is likely to remain unknown. Handel opened his home to musicians and others in the artistic community, for rehearsals and meals. Many came, went and presumably stayed there overnight.

In the final chapter, Keates discusses Handel's reception and legacy up to the 1980's. As in the case of his career, there have been many ups and downs in how subsequent generations have regarded his music. Handel's contribution to the choral repertoire cannot be overestimated, particularly in the UK. England took slowly to oratorio compared to Ireland - where Messiah was premiered - and there where objections from some clergy that Biblical subjects where being "prostituted" by being performed in theatres by opera singers. By the end of his career, bigotry of this sort began to die off and was replaced by ideas which ascribed an edifying moral power to the music.

On the continent, the likes of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven drew inspiration from Handel's music (largely thanks to Baron van Sweiten, a Handelian in Vienna) and his popularity increased. This had advantages, such as editions being printed of his music but also drawbacks, one being that in the eyes of snobs Handel was too popular and therefore mere entertainment for the bourgeois. Handel wouldn't have been too much upset by this, he saw himself chiefly as a working entertainer.

Compared to Bach's elevation to God-like status, Handel's reputation took a battering during the early 20th century. Stravinsky and Schoenberg made remarks which showed their misunderstanding of Handel's aesthetic, the latter saying that his arrangement of the Concerto Grosso Opus 6 No. 7 was better than the original.

One thing which fell victim to the continued popularity of Messiah was the delicacy of its orchestration. Conductors such as Henry Wood, Thomas Beecham and Malcolm Sargent no doubt kept Handel's legacy alive by performing his works, but their reorchestrations made the music sound heavier than it really is. They were inadvertently making the same mistake that Schoenberg had made.

With the decline of the castrati, revivals of his operas where also marred by assigning male lead roles to wholly inappropriate voice types (hard to believe, but even to basses).

Since the 1970's performers have given Handel's music the respect and sympathy it deserves. Small opera productions at universities in the UK started the trend which was picked up by conductors like Colin Davis, Charles Mackerras and Christopher Hogwood. The sense of "rhythmic incisiveness" and "exhilaration" in the music was brought back to light. Another important development was the preservation of Handel's Brook Street home as a museum.

I'll finish with some of Keates' concluding remarks about Handel:

_It was Beethoven who described him as contriving great effects by simple means, and this too is an aspect which has puzzled or deterred writers on music in our own day. He is emphatically not a composer for the textbook; the sort of architectonic example so easily culled from the works of Bach is seldom as readily produced by Handel, yet what seems naïve or trifling from reading one of his scores will force its originality on us when we actually listen to it. We are still too prone to expect him to fall into the conventional mould of the ideal Baroque composer, inexorably working out the components of a fugue or taking pains to cast his concertos in orthodox forms. The response, on discovering that he does not always choose to fulfil these demands, is all too often an irritated and uncomprehending dismissal of him as an oddity who had the impertinence to live at the same time as Bach, Corelli, Telemann and Scarlatti but is in most other respects alien to their traditions and certainly not 'central' to the development of music along approved historical lines. His unique musical personality, reflected in the long-breathed phrases, the highly personal sense of tonal associations, the inimitable grasp of orchestral colour and balance and that sublime command of a vocal line which places singers eternally in his debt, is thus ignored._


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## RocredRecords

Anyone knowing a good recital of the Handel piano minuet in G minor? Thought that would be a nice thing to listen to once in a while.


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## premont

Thanks, SID, for this comprehensive abstract.


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## Gallus

Does anyone have any recommendations for albums of Handel opera arias? I'm enjoying this album by Jaroussky.


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## Hugo9000

Here are a few of my favorite albums:

Franco Fagioli








Nathalie Stutzmann
















Exquisite duets, sung by Rosemary Joshua and Sarah Connolly

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Josquin13

Gallus asks, "Does anyone have any recommendations for albums of Handel opera arias? I'm enjoying this album by Jaroussky."

Yes, Nicholas McGegan & the Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra did an excellent Handel Aria series for Harmonia Mundi, most notably with mezzo soprano Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, but also soprano Lisa Saffer, bass David Thomas, and countertenor Drew Minter.

Here is Lieberson singing an aria from Handel's Radamisto (which is included on the first CD linked below): 




https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560546863&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Opera...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-3
https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-4
https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-8

Harmonia Mundi also boxed the 4 CDs in the series: https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Cuzzo...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-5

Lieberson made another excellent hybrid SACD of Handel Arias with Harry Bicket & the Orchestra of the Age of Englightenment: 




https://www.amazon.com/Lorraine-Hun...ieberson+handel&qid=1560548556&s=music&sr=1-1

In addition, I'd strongly recommend Handel recordings by the following four sopranos:

1. Arleen Auger: 




https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Handel-...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547228&s=music&sr=1-1
(Btw, Auger, who was a great favorite of mine, did a superb recording of Handel's 9 German Arias, too, and an exceptional Alcina, with Richard Hickox & the City of London Baroque Sinfonia: 



 )

2. Dame Janet Baker: singing arias from Handel solo cantatas & operas, with Raymond Leppard leading the English Chamber Orchestra, on Philips--this was a 'classic' Handel recording, before the period movement took over: 




https://www.amazon.com/Janet-Baker-...+handel+leppard&qid=1560550612&s=music&sr=1-2
(The complete contents of this CD may have been reissued in a 2 for 1 discount EMI Double fforte set, but I'm not sure.)

3. Roberta Invernizzi: 




https://www.amazon.com/Queens-Rober...ernizzi+handel&qid=1560547431&s=music&sr=1-17

4. Ann Hallenberg: 




https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Handel-Ann-Hallenberg/dp/B00AJOOZ1C
https://www.allmusic.com/album/agrippina-graun-händel-petti-porpora-mw0002832432

I hope that helps with your search.

P.S. Oh yes, I'd recommend sopranos Mária Zádori, Gemma Bertagnolli, and Stephanie True in Handel, too...

--Mária Zádori:








https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Itali...tatas+brilliant&qid=1560551043&s=music&sr=1-2

--Bertagnolli:








& in Handel's first English Cantatas, after his time in Italy (which I mention because it's a favorite Handel vocal & trio sonata disc of mine):




--True:


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## ldiat

Josquin13 said:


> Gallus asks, "Does anyone have any recommendations for albums of Handel opera arias? I'm enjoying this album by Jaroussky."
> 
> Yes, Nicholas McGegan & the Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra did an excellent Handel Aria series for Harmonia Mundi, most notably with mezzo soprano Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, but also soprano Lisa Saffer, bass David Thomas, and countertenor Drew Minter.
> 
> Here is Lieberson singing an aria from Handel's Radamisto (which is included on the first CD linked below):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560546863&s=music&sr=1-1
> https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Opera...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-3
> https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-4
> https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Arias...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-8
> 
> Harmonia Mundi also boxed the 4 CDs in the series: https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Cuzzo...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547099&s=music&sr=1-5
> 
> Lieberson made another excellent hybrid SACD of Handel Arias with Harry Bicket & the Orchestra of the Age of Englightenment:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Lorraine-Hun...ieberson+handel&qid=1560548556&s=music&sr=1-1
> 
> In addition, I'd also strongly recommend the following four sopranos:
> 
> 1. Arleen Auger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Handel-...del+opera+arias&qid=1560547228&s=music&sr=1-1
> (Btw, Auger, who was a great favorite of mine, did a superb recording of Handel's 9 German Arias, too, and an exceptional Alcina, with Richard Hickox & the City of London Baroque Sinfonia:
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 2. Dame Janet Baker: singing arias from Handel solo cantatas & operas, with Raymond Leppard leading the English Chamber Orchestra, on Philips--this was a 'classic' Handel recording, before the period movement took over:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Janet-Baker-...+handel+leppard&qid=1560550612&s=music&sr=1-2
> (The complete contents of this CD may have been reissued in a 2 for 1 discount EMI Double fforte set, but I not sure.)
> 
> 3. Roberta Invernizzi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Queens-Rober...ernizzi+handel&qid=1560547431&s=music&sr=1-17
> 
> 4. Ann Hallenberg:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Handel-Ann-Hallenberg/dp/B00AJOOZ1C
> https://www.allmusic.com/album/agrippina-graun-händel-petti-porpora-mw0002832432
> 
> I hope that helps with your search.
> 
> P.S. Oh yes, I'd recommend sopranos Mária Zádori, Gemma Bertagnolli, and Stephanie True in Handel, too...
> 
> --Mária Zádori:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Handel-Itali...tatas+brilliant&qid=1560551043&s=music&sr=1-2
> 
> --Bertagnolli:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & in Handel's first English Cantatas, after his time in Italy (which I mention because it's a favorite Handel vocal & trio sonata disc of mine):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --True:


a very high triple like!!! thanks


----------



## flamencosketches

Hugo9000 said:


> Exquisite duets, sung by Rosemary Joshua and Sarah Connolly
> View attachment 120123


WTF is going on in that album artwork :lol:  is that the kind of scene Handel wrote duets about?


----------



## Gallus

Thanks for the recommendations.  Auger has a very cutting voice, quite unique. She makes you stand up and pay attention!


----------



## Josquin13

My pleasure, Gallus. Yes, Auger had the most incredibly gorgeous, effortless voice. She could fill Carnegie Hall with the greatest of ease. It was something very special. Sadly, Auger was never adequately appreciated in her native country. Her gift was more greatly valued in Europe & the UK. I remember in the later stages of her career, around 1986, a professional musician friend of mine performed with Auger at the Bethlehem Bach Festival in Allentown, Pa. Afterwards, she could hardly contain herself and excitedly told me, "I've just played with a soprano that was incredible!!, as great as Janet Baker, in that class. The musicians were all stunned. None of us had even heard of her." "What was her name?", I asked. "Arleen Auger", she replied.

Later, I heard Auger live twice. The first time with Trevor Pinnock & the Orchestra of St. Luke's performing Handel's Messiah at Carnegie Hall, and the second time, in recital at Alice Tully Hall in NYC, where she sang Strauss, Wolf, Mozart, & Schoenberg. Those are concert memories that I treasure.

She excelled in the music of Strauss, Mozart, Handel, Bach, Schubert, Wolf, Schoenberg, Ravel, and Schubert.


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## millionrainbows

flamencosketches said:


> WTF is going on in that album artwork :lol:  is that the kind of scene Handel wrote duets about?




That's a trend in opera, too, I've noticed; two females doing Romeo & Juliet, etc.

Next: two countertenors pinching each other's nipples.


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## flamencosketches

Glad I’m not the only one who may have found that hilarious. 

That Richter looks excellent. I’ve never heard of that label. But i’ll have to check it out. Another pianist who really shines in Handel is Wilhelm Kempff. I need to hear more.


----------



## Abdel ove Allhan

I mentioned this in the Current Listening thread but it deserves repeating here...if only to bump GFH up to the top. This performance by AAM led by Andrew Manzi is the most brilliant, energized, innovative romp of these crown jewels of the baroque. From the first movement, No.5 the whip slash tempo is shocking, bracing, and right. There is more joy, drama, craftsmanship, grace, élan and dizzying counterpoint in these works than any other composers single opus of that era...yah, I went there.


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## Caesura

It took a pretty long time for me to discover how good Handel's music is. Before, I only heard the Water and Fireworks Music plus the Hallelujah Chorus a lot. One day a few years ago, I wondered "Why haven't I ever heard the rest of the Messiah?", so I went to see a live performance of it for Christmas. I was hooked on Handel from there and started listening to some of his operas and other choral works. 

My favourite operas are Giulio Cesare and Acis & Galatea. I listened to Tamerlano once and it was pretty cool. I really should listen to more of his operas, there are some nice hidden gems in some of them.

My favourite oratorios are Joshua (one of those hidden gems I'd say), Theodora, Messiah, and Israel in Egypt. Again, I need to listen to more of them.

The Dixit Dominus, Coronation Anthems, Funeral Music for Queen Caroline, Water Music, Fireworks Music, and all the organ concertos are awesome too, even if the water and fireworks music are a bit overplayed.


----------



## flamencosketches

Caesura said:


> It took a pretty long time for me to discover how good Handel's music is. Before, I only heard the Water and Fireworks Music plus the Hallelujah Chorus a lot. One day a few years ago, I wondered "Why haven't I ever heard the rest of the Messiah?", so I went to see a live performance of it for Christmas. I was hooked on Handel from there and started listening to some of his operas and other choral works.
> 
> My favourite operas are Giulio Cesare and Acis & Galatea. I listened to Tamerlano once and it was pretty cool. I really should listen to more of his operas, there are some nice hidden gems in some of them.
> 
> My favourite oratorios are Joshua (one of those hidden gems I'd say), Theodora, Messiah, and Israel in Egypt. Again, I need to listen to more of them.
> 
> The Dixit Dominus, Coronation Anthems, Funeral Music for Queen Caroline, Water Music, Fireworks Music, and all the organ concertos are awesome too, even if the water and fireworks music are a bit overplayed.


Your enthusiasm is inspiring, and you've got me wondering why I haven't heard the whole Messiah. It's probably just about time to get my hands on a recording of it; what better time to listen to a three hour oratorio than while the whole world is on quarantine? 

I have been enjoying Handel's keyboard suites lately. Not exactly a major part of his output, but he was a pretty talented writer for the keyboard, I think. I've been listening to them on a modern piano. They're probably worth hearing on a harpsichord, I'm sure, but I don't know which recordings are supposed to be good.


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## Caesura

flamencosketches said:


> what better time to listen to a three hour oratorio than while the whole world is on quarantine?


Yes, exactly  I have no excuse not to listen to more music right now.



flamencosketches said:


> I have been enjoying Handel's keyboard suites lately. Not exactly a major part of his output, but he was a pretty talented writer for the keyboard, I think. I've been listening to them on a modern piano. They're probably worth hearing on a harpsichord, I'm sure, but I don't know which recordings are supposed to be good.


I should listen to some more of Handel's non-choral works too (in addition to more choral ones). I have heard some before, I just need to take advantage of the time I have to listen to it.

I usually prefer harpsichord because it feels like I am listening to Handel. To me, Handel keyboard pieces played on piano don't sound baroque (I don't really know why).

I'm not very picky about specific recordings for a piece until I have found one I really like. This may be because I listen to most of my music on YouTube unless I have a recording of it at home. The good thing about YouTube is that it is easy to find a different version of a piece if I don't like a certain one. The bad things are that sometimes there are too many versions to ever listen to or the piece is really rare on YouTube so there are only one or two recordings to try.


----------



## Rogerx

Handel: Joshua (COMPLETE)

Miriam Allan - Achsah, Daughter of Caleb (soprano)
David Allsopp - Othniel, a young warrior, promised to Achsah (alto)
Mark Le Brocq - Joshua, Leader of the Israelites (tenor)
James Rutherford - Caleb (bass)

Hanoverian Court Orchestra
Maulbronn Chamber Choir
Juergen Budday


----------



## Bulldog

flamencosketches said:


> I have been enjoying Handel's keyboard suites lately. Not exactly a major part of his output, but he was a pretty talented writer for the keyboard, I think. I've been listening to them on a modern piano. They're probably worth hearing on a harpsichord, I'm sure, but I don't know which recordings are supposed to be good.


Ottavio Dantone on the ARTS label is my favorite of recordings currently on the market. My all-time favorite is Scott Ross.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

The Concerti Grossi are my favorite Baroque works outside of Bach; some of the purest, most life-enhancing music around. I also find his organ concerti pretty underrated. I love his operas and oratorios - so tuneful and uplifting - but they are so cruelly long, I don't know if it's worth my time to sit through the entirety of one. Actually, I'm not as big on _Messiah_ as some, nor do I think the keyboard suites are very interesting. So, a composer I generally like and even love but not necessarily across all genres. Favorite recordings include the Sargent stereo _Messiah_, the Manze/AAM Concerti Grossi (agree that they're just about perfect), and the organ concerti with Karl Richter.


----------



## DavidA

Try this for sheer beauty!


----------



## DavidA

Or have some fun with Red Priest


----------



## flamencosketches

DavidA said:


> View attachment 133103
> 
> 
> Try this for sheer beauty!


I think I will. Renée Fleming with William Christie, should be an interesting match up, or a clash of different worlds. Thanks.


----------



## philoctetes

Listening to Aminta e Filide at the moment... La Risonanza


----------



## Common Listener

In addition to all the great works mentioned in the last couple of pages (and don't let Opus 6 _completely_ overshadow Opus 3) these are some more of my favorite Handel CDs.








​ 






​ 






​


----------



## Dick Johnson

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> The biography by Christopher Hogwood, without a doubt.


Another good Handel biography is *Handel in London* by Jane Glover. This one provided more detail on the composition process for many of his operas and oratorios. As a relative newcomer to Handel, I found this book the most helpful for developing a better understanding of his compositions.


----------



## Clairvoyance Enough

Test, test. 




In case the link doesnt work, I wanted to call attention to an aria I noticed was cut from several Samson performances, Loud as the Thunder's Awful Voice. The specific rendition on a 2019 release, with names Dunedin Consort and John Butt on the cover, absolutely blew me away.

It was unassuming at a first listen I'll admit, good but maybe not a tragedy if cut for time, but it quickly blossomed into one of my favorite songs. None of the other versions I found did it justice like the one I tried to link, and unfortunately it is not on Youtube.

This is what I love about exploring (relatively) neglected works of prolific composers like Handel, Telemann, and etc, that right when I start to lose faith and interest some mini-masterpiece will pop up and reward me for hours of binging. I cannot imagine cutting an aria that damn good for any reason!


----------



## flamencosketches

Since this thread last came around, I've gotten myself absolutely hooked on Handel. Especially the choral and vocal music: the Psalm settings, the Coronation Anthems, of course Messiah (I ended up getting the Martin Pearlman, Boston Baroque recording, which is excellent!), the Italian Cantatas; but also the instrumental music, Concerti Grossi op.6 (again I have Pearlman here and really love it; I also just got Manze/AAM but have not yet listened to it), the Water & Fireworks Musics. I can't get enough of it, and of course I've just barely scratched the surface. He wrote dozens of operas and I have yet to hear a single one (though the Italian Cantatas are essentially mini Italian operas, and they scratch that itch for me nicely for now), and of course quite a few more full-scale English Oratorios aside from Messiah (which I only heard in full just last week!)—so I think it will be a lifetime project getting into this composer. 

Definitely one of the greatest of all time! I can see why Beethoven admired him so, and indeed can hear a lineage there that I hadn't picked up on before.


----------



## Rogerx

Forget the cover and try this one......:angel:


----------



## Enthusiast

flamencosketches said:


> Since this thread last came around, I've gotten myself absolutely hooked on Handel. Especially the choral and vocal music: the Psalm settings, the Coronation Anthems, of course Messiah (I ended up getting the Martin Pearlman, Boston Baroque recording, which is excellent!), the Italian Cantatas; but also the instrumental music, Concerti Grossi op.6 (again I have Pearlman here and really love it; I also just got Manze/AAM but have not yet listened to it), the Water & Fireworks Musics. I can't get enough of it, and of course I've just barely scratched the surface. He wrote dozens of operas and I have yet to hear a single one (though the Italian Cantatas are essentially mini Italian operas, and they scratch that itch for me nicely for now), and of course quite a few more full-scale English Oratorios aside from Messiah (which I only heard in full just last week!)-so I think it will be a lifetime project getting into this composer.
> 
> Definitely one of the greatest of all time! I can see why Beethoven admired him so, and indeed can hear a lineage there that I hadn't picked up on before.


The good news is that there are many other strands to Handel's music to explore! The operas, although mostly in Italian (only the short Acis and Galatea is in English - it is quite a gem), were written in London for London audiences and are quite different to the early Italian cantatas. I'm not sure how to rate them as dramas but musically they have a lot going for them. They were the West End musicals of their day (Handel as the first Andrew Lloyd Webber!). When it became unfashionable and politically suspect to write Italian operas he moved on to _*dramatic *_oratorios in English. By using English and church subjects he managed to remain on top of the game in London. These dramatic oratorios are not at all like The Messiah but do contain a lot of beautiful music - probably the biggest masterpiece is Theodora.


----------



## Dick Johnson

flamencosketches said:


> He wrote dozens of operas and I have yet to hear a single one (though the Italian Cantatas are essentially mini Italian operas, and they scratch that itch for me nicely for now), and of course quite a few more full-scale English Oratorios aside from Messiah (which I only heard in full just last week!)-so I think it will be a lifetime project getting into this composer.


We share a recent infatuation with Handel but have come to his music from opposite directions. I started with his operas and have used my love of his operas to begin to explore some of his oratorios and then onto his instrumental music. Since my music tastes tend to favor opera in general, I still personally regard his operas as his peak achievements but certainly enjoy his instrumental music. Handel himself regarded himself primarily as an opera composer for most of his productive career - turning to oratorio composition when he found that London audiences at that time favored choirs and lyrics in English.

If you enjoy the oratorios, _Semele, Theodora,_ and possibly _Saul_ all feel very operatic and might be a good bridge between the two worlds.

Of his operas in Italian, I love them all. _Giulio Cesare, Agrippina, Rodelinda, Alcina, Tamerlano,_ and _Rinaldo_ might be his most popular. _Cesare, Agrippina_, and _Rodelinda_ can be streamed from the Met's site and _Rinaldo_ is available from Glyndbourne.
There are also great new recordings of some of the very rare operas that are becoming available with the renewed interest in these works - as well as the sudden availability of talented counter-tenors such as Max Emmanuel Cencic and Xavier Sabata that can do credit to the castrato roles. _Alessandro_ as well as _Arminio_ are examples of almost forgotten Handel operas that have had great recent recordings and revivals with Max Emmanuel Cencic - both relatively unknown compared to the others but highly recommended.


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## flamencosketches

I may not be a big opera guy but I for one am very happy to see this big revival of Handel's operas over the past 20 years or so. Though I've heard little of it, I have a feeling that a lot of very beautiful music is being unearthed... I will take the deep dive into it eventually. I think I might start with the René Jacobs recording of Giulio Cesare... I love what I heard of it.

Also curious about Acis and Galatea. Is anyone familiar with this recording?










I saw it going for cheap, but I'm definitely open to other recommendations as well


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## Enthusiast

^ I don't know that one or the performers (solo singers are not named on the cover, though). I have two versions - King's and Christie's - and both seem very good to me.

















The Christie recording used to come in a super-bargain box with a highly recommendable Theodora and some of the cantatas you may already have. You might still find it cheap as a used set.


----------



## flamencosketches

Ah, thanks! I will look into these recordings. I like what I've heard of Christie's, though haven't heard anything of King's due to Hyperion's lack of internet/streaming presence.


----------



## JAS

flamencosketches said:


> Since this thread last came around, I've gotten myself absolutely hooked on Handel. Especially the choral and vocal music: the Psalm settings, the Coronation Anthems, of course Messiah (I ended up getting the Martin Pearlman, Boston Baroque recording, which is excellent!), the Italian Cantatas; but also the instrumental music, Concerti Grossi op.6 (again I have Pearlman here and really love it; I also just got Manze/AAM but have not yet listened to it), the Water & Fireworks Musics. I can't get enough of it, and of course I've just barely scratched the surface. He wrote dozens of operas and I have yet to hear a single one (though the Italian Cantatas are essentially mini Italian operas, and they scratch that itch for me nicely for now), and of course quite a few more full-scale English Oratorios aside from Messiah (which I only heard in full just last week!)-so I think it will be a lifetime project getting into this composer.
> 
> Definitely one of the greatest of all time! I can see why Beethoven admired him so, and indeed can hear a lineage there that I hadn't picked up on before.


So, ironically, Handel has got a hold on you.


----------



## ando

Continuing the celebration of Handel's Birthday (February 23, 1685) with two versions of *Il trionfo del Tempo e del Disingann* -






*Juilliard415* led by *William Christie*

and a very different, rather brisk take






by the* Freiburger Barockorchester* led by *René Jacobs.*


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## Rogerx

Handel left us so much great works, something for everyone I think. 
I Have Alcina for breakfast.


----------



## Miranna




----------



## hoodjem

I have Handel as fourth on my all-time great composers list.
I particularly like the concerti: grossi, organ, oboe, a due cori. 

I do wish he had written more chamber music.


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## Ludwig Schon

I generally hate listening to opera, and abhor all of Handel’s English royalty commissions and most of his religious works.

Apart from the Concerti Grossi, what other works/recordings of genius should I listen to to reappraise my negative perception of Handel?


----------



## Kreisler jr

Rogerx said:


> Handel left us so much great works, something for everyone I think.
> I Have Alcina for breakfast.


She'd have YOU for breakfast after turning you into a side of bacon or so...


----------



## Kreisler jr

Ludwig Schon said:


> I generally hate listening to opera, and abhor all of Handel’s English royalty commissions and most of his religious works.
> 
> Apart from the Concerti Grossi, what other works/recordings of genius should I listen to to reappraise my negative perception of Handel?


the 8 "1720" harpsichord suites, the op.4 organ concerti, the 3 concerti a due cori. 

Maybe the early italian vocal music might appeal more. There is one secular oratorio, "Il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno", one sacred ("La resurrezione"), a "serenata" "Aci, Galatea e Polifemo" (completely distinct from the later english piece with the same subject, a bunch of Latin church music (most famous the Dixit dominus) and 150 or so secular cantatas, from ca. 10-30 minutes, usually 1-2 singers and smallish accompaniment. There are several anthology discs. 
However, both the oratorios and the cantatas are basically Italian opera style, only a bit shorter and fewer characters.

Some of the chamber music is very nice but overall it is a mess. A considerable amount might not be by Handel at all or arranged by someone else. [Of the ca. 10 collections of instrumental music published, I think only the 1720 suites and the concerti op.6 were certainly supervised by Handel himself, maybe the first set of organ concerti op.4 as well. I am sure that op.1, op.3, op.7 (posthumuous, like another collection of organ concerti) and the 1733 keyboard suites were not and the all contain at least some arrangements by others and some also spurious pieces; I don't know about opp.2, 4 and 5. Of course, "arrangement" could be by an unscrupulous publisher as well as by a close collaborator of Handel like Christopher Smith?]
The trio sonatas op.2 are probably all authentic and so is the famous last violin sonata D major. The op. 5 trios are also nice although maybe arranged/reduced by a collaborator or editor they are supposedly also all authentic. Good luck sorting out the other woodwind and violin sonatas... I had one disc with only 4 (the rock bottom authentic) violin sonatas, another with 8 or 10...


----------



## Ludwig Schon

Kreisler jr said:


> the 8 "1720" harpsichord suites, the op.4 organ concerti, the 3 concerti a due cori.
> 
> Maybe the early italian vocal music might appeal more. There is one secular oratorio, "Il trionfo del tempo e del disinganno", one sacred ("La resurrezione"), a "serenata" "Aci, Galatea e Polifemo" (completely distinct from the later english piece with the same subject, a bunch of Latin church music (most famous the Dixit dominus) and 150 or so secular cantatas, from ca. 10-30 minutes, usually 1-2 singers and smallish accompaniment. There are several anthology discs.
> However, both the oratorios and the cantatas are basically Italian opera style, only a bit shorter and fewer characters.
> 
> Some of the chamber music is very nice but overall it is a mess. A considerable amount might not be by Handel at all or arranged by someone else. [Of the ca. 10 collections of instrumental music published, I think only the 1720 suites and the concerti op.6 were certainly supervised by Handel himself, maybe the first set of organ concerti op.4 as well. I am sure that op.1, op.3, op.7 (posthumuous, like another collection of organ concerti) and the 1733 keyboard suites were not and the all contain at least some arrangements by others and some also spurious pieces; I don't know about opp.2, 4 and 5. Of course, "arrangement" could be by an unscrupulous publisher as well as by a close collaborator of Handel like Christopher Smith?]
> The trio sonatas op.2 are probably all authentic and so is the famous last violin sonata D major. The op. 5 trios are also nice although maybe arranged/reduced by a collaborator or editor they are supposedly also all authentic. Good luck sorting out the other woodwind and violin sonatas... I had one disc with only 4 (the rock bottom authentic) violin sonatas, another with 8 or 10...


Great post, Kreisler… Are you the American living in Germany?

Any road… Thank you for reawakening and re-examining much of what I had long forgotten. I adore Dixit - a rollicking, secular piece in all but name. I had Verlet (hs) and Perahia (p) as my reference recordings, but on listening again, I find both to be too clinical and austere. Being an audiophile, I had previously turned up my nose at the Richter & Gavrilov live ‘79, but listening again just now, I find them both far more engaging and emotive.

I’m now off to check out Corti‘s recent harpsichord recording. Any recommendations here?

Once that is done, I’ll re-listen to Egarr‘s Organ concerti Op 4 & 7 (to see how spurious the authenticity of the latter is!) and Mullejans Concerti Due Cori. Any other recordings you would recommend for Lil Ludi?

Chapeau, mein freund!


----------



## Kreisler jr

No, I am a German living in Germany 

For the harpsichord suites my favorites are probably Dantone/ARTS (two separate discs with 1720 set + fillers) and Pinnock/Archiv (best of the uneven 1733 set). Can't help with a good piano recording; I agree that Richter/Gavrilov is uneven, not only because of recorded sound (nevertheless, it's my only piano recording of the music and some of Richter's contributions are quite good). I have seen very positive comments about both the 3-disc set by Schimer as well as smaller selections with Smirnova? and Ugorskaya (daughter of Anatol who tragically passed away a few years ago in her 40s) but I haven't heard them as I clearly prefer harpsichord (like in Couperin, Rameau and any 17th century music, Scarlatti and Bach I can take both on piano and harpsichord).

My favorite chamber disc is this mixed one (and it might suffice for many listeners)
ASIN: B01K8QBCEI ‏ : ‎ 










Another great one but hard to find is op.5 with La Stravaganza Salzburg; ASIN: B002K687ZM ‎ 
As for the authenticity, I believe that all of op.7 is Handelian music, it's just very probable that for some of them the actual shape (combination of movements into concerti, maybe some arranging or writing out, they also require supposedly lots of filling out in the solo parts as they were improvised by Handel) was not Handel's doing. In the case of the concerti op.3 there was one concerto included by anonymus (goes by op.3,4b) and 3,3 and 3,6 are combinations by the publisher, all the others probably completely Handel's. I don't remember details for the total mess that are the solo sonatas op.1, only that apparently 4 violin sonatas not by Handel were included in some editions and for some other sonatas it seems that someone else.


----------



## Rogerx

Kreisler jr said:


> She'd have YOU for breakfast after turning you into a side of bacon or so...


She always can try.


----------



## Kreisler jr

hoodjem said:


> I have Handel as fourth on my all-time great composers list.
> I particularly like the concerti: grossi, organ, oboe, a due cori.
> 
> I do wish he had written more chamber music.


What are your favorite chamber music pieces and/or recordings? I used to like the chamber music a lot but overall I think it is the most conventional and least significant part of Handel's work.


----------



## scott.stucky48

Handel may indeed be the greatest of all (he is certainly no lower than second.) One of my favorites, and one that really shows his genius, is the Occasional Oratorio which he threw together out of bits and pieces of other works (especially _Israel in Egypt_) to celebrate the Hanoverian victory over the Jacobite uprising in 1746.


----------



## hammeredklavier

Kreisler jr said:


> the 8 "1720" harpsichord suites


Aren't they like, more monotonous in rhythm than Bach's (which you regard as some kind of "exercises")?




(I'm not trying to pick on you, btw, and I respect your preferences. I'm just a little curious why you would recommend them, considering your view of Bach's.)


----------



## Abdel ove Allhan

"There was Handel, in this Italian world, in Venice, the city rich with the creations of a phenomenal school of music, which sat in judgment over the foreigners who came to the promised land of opera to try their hand right at the source. Most of the pilgrims appeared in vain; whether respected mature masters or fiery youths, the Transalpines could not quite win their case before the court, for few are among the elect. But this young Saxon, whom they will call il caro Sassone, settled among the legion of the obscure with secure calm and confidence, and when Venice judged the court found in his favor. Then one day, without hesitation, Handel sat down on the throne in the royal palace of opera and, almost before anyone was aware of it, put on the king’s robe. Now the robe was his and could have been for life, but as we shall see, for some mysterious reason he laid it down soon after his possession of it was recognized all over Italy, to return to the Germanic world."

Lang, Paul Henry. George Frideric Handel (Dover Books On Music: Composers) . Dover Publications. Kindle Edition.


----------



## Abdel ove Allhan

Ludwig Schon said:


> I generally hate listening to opera, and abhor all of Handel’s English royalty commissions and most of his religious works.
> 
> Apart from the Concerti Grossi, what other works/recordings of genius should I listen to to reappraise my negative perception of Handel?


No. If you can't get beyond your knee jerk aversion to "religious works" which I presume are most of the oratorios, the anthems and vocal works in general, all consummate masterpieces (including the operas), you ought to stay in your instrumental bubble and leave the most humanly communicative and artistically monumental works by history's most enduring and creative musical colossus to the grown ups.


----------



## Dedalus

Hey! What do you folks think of this list?









The 50 greatest George Frideric Handel recordings


The definitive guide to the 50 greatest Handel recordings, featuring extracts from the original Gramophone reviews, a playlist, and links to the albums on Apple Music




www.gramophone.co.uk


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## abrygida

G.F.Handel - Passacaglia from Suite No.7 in G minor (HWV 432/6)





G.F.Handel - "Dignare" from Cantata "Dettingen Te Deum"





G.F.Handel - Sarabande from Suite in D minor (HWV 437)


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## scott.stucky48

No lower than no. 3 on the all-time list, the greatest composer of occasional music in history, top 5 in opera, absolute no. 1 in oratorio—what’s not to like?


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