# MG: What unfinished and lost work/piece would you want it to be completed or restore?



## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

*Setting*:You are a weary traveler on a road. Something caught your eye. You pick it up. It's a shiny lamp coated in dirt. Your hand rub off the grime, then suddenly you heard a deafening whooshing sound emitting from the lamp. You look up and you saw this.








It's a Magic Genie and you free him!

Sensing that you are a lover of classical music, he grant you *one wish* as a reward. However, your wish is restricted to his question of "*what unfinished and lost classical work/piece would you want it to be completed or restored*" and *can only be used for one work for each category or two works for one category*. Also, he considered himself as a connoisseur so as another condition, *you have to tell him why you choose your pick*. Choose wisely.*

*Condition*:
- You can only wish for *two *symphony, string quartet, concerto, chamber, sonata, trio, or other types of classical music provided *that the second one is in a different category*. 
- *If you only choose pieces from one category*, the genie allow you to *wish for two pieces from the one category you choose*. 
- *All works from any composers or periods are eligible*, provided that it's CM 
- You _must _*state why you choose the works you have pick, * for your wish to be granted 
- *You may not wished for something else* that is not relevant to the genie question or else he will transport you to a desert island. :devil:
- After making your wish,* the genie permits discussions about your and other choice of pieces *as he like these conversations. *Please keep your discussions friendly and respectful* or else he elect to send the offenders to a desert island.

*Result*:
*Unfinished work*: You are transported to an alternative timeline where the composer of the unfinished piece successfully completed it.
*Lost work*: Music archivists discovered the original music sheet to the lost piece in pristine condition in their archive and a recording of it was released by a prominent conductor and a distinguished orchestra.

*If you don't like the background story, I can refrain from doing again. I thought it would be a nice touch to the thread.

*Edit:* The magic genie will like your post to "grant" your wish.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Maybe not my absolute first choice but I've always wanted to see what could've came out of Scott Joplin's lost piano concerto.

At least we have his opera and I've greatly enjoyed that.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

chu42 said:


> Maybe not my absolute first choice but I've always wanted to see what could've came out of Scott Joplin's lost piano concerto.
> 
> At least we have his opera and I've greatly enjoyed that.


The magic genie grant your wish. You have one remaining work you can wish for. It can be from lost or unfinished category.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I would like Monteverdi's *lost* opera _Ariadne_. I anticipate an opera similar in style to _Orfeo_ and the _Vespers_, which are my two favorite works by Monteverdi.

Second wish: Mendelssohn has an *unfinished* symphony that he was working on in 1845. Composer gprengel posted about it here:
https://www.youngcomposers.com/t38245/mendelssohn-unfinished-6th-symphony-an-attempt-of-completion/
_Last year I made the most interesting discovery that in the month his violin concerto had it's first performance (March/April 1845) Mendelssohn was working on a 6th symphony in C-Major! For the 1st mov. he wrote the first about 80 bars in full score and some sketches for the 2nd theme and the development. This fascinated me so much that I tried to make a full movement of it.

I finally could also get the sketches for a second movement from a library in Oxford and made it to complete also this to a whole Andante movement of about 14 minutes._

Here is the second movement in gpregel's partial completion.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

ORigel said:


> I would like Monteverdi's lost opera _Ariadne_. I anticipate an opera similar in style to _Orfeo_ and the _Vespers_, which are my two favorite works by Monteverdi.
> 
> Second wish: Mendelssohn has an unfinished symphony that he was working on in 1845. Composer gprengel posted about it here:
> https://www.youngcomposers.com/t38245/mendelssohn-unfinished-6th-symphony-an-attempt-of-completion/
> ...


The magic genie granted your wish.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I would love to hear what Mahler would actually do to his 10th Symphony, because I have always had a lot of problems with Cooke's (and others') provisional orchestrations.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Mozart's lost Bassoon concerti...may be 3 of them(??)


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Beethoven's 10th


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

MarkW said:


> I would love to hear what Mahler would actually do to his 10th Symphony, because I have always had a lot of problems with Cooke's (and others') provisional orchestrations.


The magic genie granted your wish. You have one remaining work you can wish for. It can be from lost or unfinished category.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Heck148 said:


> Mozart's lost Bassoon concerti...may be 3 of them(??)


The magic genie want to grant your wish. He will restored two of Mozart lost bassoon concerti. The only thing needed is he want to know why you have chose that work above the other. Do so and he will grant your wish.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Beethoven's 10th


The magic genie want to grant your wish. Before doing so he want to know why you have chose that work among the eligible works you could have chosen. He also like to remind you that you have one remaining work you can wish for. It can be from lost or unfinished category.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

The crowning contrapunctus from Art of Fugue and Mahler's 10th.

Oh, and the lost Bach cantatas, however many there are...and S L. Weiss' lost music. That man could compose.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Moerans 2nd Symphony


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

consuono said:


> The crowning contrapunctus from Art of Fugue and Mahler's 10th.
> 
> Oh, and the lost Bach cantatas, however many there are...and S L. Weiss' lost music. That man could compose.


These are my top two as well. If I had to choose one though, I would choose the art of fugue. It pains me to know that I don't know how Bach completed it.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Conrad2 said:


> The magic genie want to grant your wish. He will restored two of Mozart lost bassoon concerti. The only thing needed is he want to know why you have chose that work above the other. Do so and he will grant your wish.


Only one of Mozart's Bassoon concerti has survived...Mozart wrote 4 horn concerto, plus some other solo pieces, that greatly enrich the solo literature for that instrument..
It would be a great boon to have the lost bassoon concerti restored, since it would be a tremendous addition to the bassoon solo repertoire, which is rather sparse, esp from classical period.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Heck148 said:


> Only one of Mozart's Bassoon concerti has survived...Mozart wrote 4 horn concerto, plus some other solo pieces, that greatly enrich the solo literature for that instrument..
> It would be a great boon to have the lost bassoon concerti restored, since it would be a tremendous addition to the bassoon solo repertoire, which is rather sparse, esp from classical period.


The genie granted your wish. Sorry for misreading your original post.


> Mozart's lost Bassoon concerti...may be 3 of them(??)


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Conrad2 said:


> The genie granted your wish. Sorry for misreading your original post.


Great!! Can't wait to play them!!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"In late 1814 and early 1815, Beethoven sketched the first movement of a piano concerto in D major, what would, if completed, have been the Sixth Concerto. He made about seventy pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out a full score; this runs almost uninterrupted from the beginning of the movement to the middle of the solo exposition, although the scoring becomes patchy as the work proceeds and there are signs of indecision or dissatisfaction on the composer's part. This torso of a movement represents one of the most substantial of Beethoven's unrealized conceptions.
Why did Beethoven abandon it? A number of circumstantial reasons might be adduced: perhaps he planned it for the cancelled benefit concert of 1815, or perhaps he intended to play the solo part himself and abandoned the project when his deafness made this impractical.
There are however some musical features that may bear upon the issue: the style is at several points distinctly retrospective, and the materials are curiously symphonic for a piano concerto. As a result the piano part comes across as decorating an essential symphonic argument rather than representing a dramatic agent in its own right. There is some evidence (though Lewis Lockwood has contested it) that Beethoven recognized this problem and experimented with alternative structural plans for the movement at a relatively late stage in its composition."










Cage's 4'33" should have been lost, btw.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> "In late 1814 and early 1815, Beethoven sketched the first movement of a piano concerto in D major, what would, if completed, have been the Sixth Concerto. He made about seventy pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out a full score; this runs almost uninterrupted from the beginning of the movement to the middle of the solo exposition, although the scoring becomes patchy as the work proceeds and there are signs of indecision or dissatisfaction on the composer's part. This torso of a movement represents one of the most substantial of Beethoven's unrealized conceptions.
> Why did Beethoven abandon it? A number of circumstantial reasons might be adduced: perhaps he planned it for the cancelled benefit concert of 1815, or perhaps he intended to play the solo part himself and abandoned the project when his deafness made this impractical.
> There are however some musical features that may bear upon the issue: the style is at several points distinctly retrospective, and the materials are curiously symphonic for a piano concerto. As a result the piano part comes across as decorating an essential symphonic argument rather than representing a dramatic agent in its own right. There is some evidence (though Lewis Lockwood has contested it) that Beethoven recognized this problem and experimented with alternative structural plans for the movement at a relatively late stage in its composition."


The magic genie granted your wish for the above portion.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> "In late 1814 and early 1815, Beethoven sketched the first movement of a piano concerto in D major, what would, if completed, have been the Sixth Concerto. He made about seventy pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out a full score; this runs almost uninterrupted from the beginning of the movement to the middle of the solo exposition, although the scoring becomes patchy as the work proceeds and there are signs of indecision or dissatisfaction on the composer's part. This torso of a movement represents one of the most substantial of Beethoven's unrealized conceptions.
> Why did Beethoven abandon it? A number of circumstantial reasons might be adduced: perhaps he planned it for the cancelled benefit concert of 1815, or perhaps he intended to play the solo part himself and abandoned the project when his deafness made this impractical.
> There are however some musical features that may bear upon the issue: the style is at several points distinctly retrospective, and the materials are curiously symphonic for a piano concerto. As a result the piano part comes across as decorating an essential symphonic argument rather than representing a dramatic agent in its own right. There is some evidence (though Lewis Lockwood has contested it) that Beethoven recognized this problem and experimented with alternative structural plans for the movement at a relatively late stage in its composition."
> 
> ...


I never knew that Beethoven composed an unfinished Piano Concerto #6. According to Wikipedia, by 1815 LVB was embarking upon deafness, a lengthy fever, and the ongoing custody battle over his nephew Karl. It confirms that due to deafness he could no longer play the piano in concert, and played the _Archduke Trio_ not aware that the piano was out of tune.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Either Schubert's 8th or Bruckner's 9th


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Coach G said:


> I never knew that Beethoven composed an unfinished Piano Concerto #6. According to Wikipedia, by 1815 LVB was embarking upon deafness, a lengthy fever, and the ongoing custody battle over his nephew Karl. It confirms that due to deafness he could no longer play the piano in concert, and played the _Archduke Trio_ not aware that the piano was out of tune.


Not the OP, but if you read further in the Wikipedia article, you will see "Beethoven spent a great deal of time on a project that never reached completion: a piano concerto in D major, which would, if completed, have been the sixth". I didn't know that too until I read the article.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Concerto_No._6_(Beethoven)


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The Sibelius Eighth Symphony. Please?


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

SONNET CLV said:


> The Sibelius Eighth Symphony. Please?


The genie would like to grant your wish. But before he could so, he would like to know why you have pick that symphony instead of the others that you could have chosen. Also he like to inform you that you can restore another work if you want to.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

*Condition*:
- You can only wish for *two *symphony, string quartet, concerto, chamber, sonata, trio, or other types of classical music provided *that the second one is in a different category*. 
- *If you only choose pieces from one category*, the genie allow you to *wish for two pieces from the one category you choose*. 
- *All works from any composers or periods are eligible*, provided that it's CM 
- You _must _*state why you choose the works you have pick, * for your wish to be granted 
- *You may not wished for something else* that is not relevant to the genie question or else he will transport you to a desert island. :devil:
- After making your wish,* the genie permits discussions about your and other choice of pieces *as he like these conversations. *Please keep your discussions friendly and respectful* or else he elect to send the offenders to a desert island.

The magic genie will like your post to "grant" your wish.

*Just a repost from opening post.*


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

O great and mighty genie, I am delighted to learn that these great treasures can be restored to the world. I don't wish to stretch your patience too far, but may I humbly crave the following boons?

1. UNFINISHED WORK

*Penderecki's* last completed symphony (his Sixth), and his other late works, reveal that his style was continuing to change, in ways that couldn't have been foreseen from his earlier compositions. I'm told that, at his death, he left only a few preliminary sketches for his next symphony (which would have been his *Ninth**). I would particularly like to hear that symphony, because I can't imagine into what new realms his further stylistic developments might have led him. (This is much like the reason that makes many of us wish we could hear Sibelius's Eighth Symphony.)

[*I know only one other person who had the same notions of counting as Penderecki: Dogberry in Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing.]

2. LOST WORK

Since I've chosen an extremely recent unfinished work, I'd like to go to the other extreme for my lost work, and choose something more ancient than any surviving piece of music, because I believe that I learn most when I open my mind to times & places as remote from my own as possible.

How can I choose the piece of music? I can't hear it beforehand--and in any case I want to choose music that broadens & stretches my taste, not music that conforms to my existing taste! Therefore, I want to be guided by the ancient world's own tastes, and choose something that was performed as an acknowledged classic for hundreds of years.

The music of the ancient Greek tragedies was performed for several hundred years... but their main attraction seems to have been the plays, not the music.

Some ancient Egyptian songs may have been performed in both the Middle Kingdom and the New Kingdom, several hundred years apart... but that isn't certain.

No, I think the safest choice would be music from ancient Israel, some of which seems to have been performed regularly for at least 1,000 years. I could choose some of the Psalms; but if I were limited to only one piece, I think I'd choose the *Song of Songs*,* because it's longer & written in dialogue, and therefore might possibly (not necessarily!) have more varied music, which would teach me more about the music of the very remote past.

[*In the 1980s Suzanne Haik-Vantoura claimed that the original music of the Song of Songs has been preserved, but I understand that her theory has since been refuted.]

O great and mighty genie, grant these boons!


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Schubert's 10th.


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## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

golfer72 said:


> Moerans 2nd Symphony


The realisation by Yates, which can be heard on youtube (but can't be bought on disc?) is an excellent piece of work, so maybe the genie isn't urgently needed here.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There are only two things I request:

1. The final section of Gottschalk's Night in the Tropics. The pages of the original orchestra score were lost, but fortunately a piano arrangement was made from it that allowed numerous people to complete the work. However, there are some (I include myself) who aren't convinced by the rhythm in the melody of this piano version - it just doesn't sound authentic. Having the composer's original score would answer once and for all who was correct: Igor Buketoff or Gaylen Hatton.

2. Prokofieff's original score for Romeo and Juliet. If you compare the suites he created with the published score of the full ballet, there are many, many differences in orchestration. That's because other's changed the writing to help the dancers. Those changes were incorporated into the official Soviet publications and Prokofieff's original score disappeared. I would like to hear it the way he wrote it!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

About Moeran's second symphony:



BoggyB said:


> The realisation by Yates, which can be heard on youtube (but can't be bought on disc?) is an excellent piece of work, so maybe the genie isn't urgently needed here.


http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Mar12/Moeran_sy2_CDLX7281.htm

I have heard it, but did not particularly like it (and I'm a huge Moeran fan).


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## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> About Moeran's second symphony: [LINK HERE]. I have heard it, but did not particularly like it (and I'm a huge Moeran fan).


Well, as it happens, I'm not a Moeran fan, so that explains it!


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Conrad2 said:


> The genie would like to grant your wish. But before he could so, he would like to know why you have pick that symphony instead of the others that you could have chosen. Also he like to inform you that you can restore another work if you want to.


Don't understand this response. I understood (is it a myth?) that Sibelius had a big burning of stuff at some point. I would like it all to have escaped the flames, without knowing what it was.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Eclectic Al said:


> Don't understand this response. I understood (is it a myth?) that Sibelius had a big burning of stuff at some point. I would like it all to have escaped the flames, without knowing what it was.


The OP asked specifically for the 8th symphony. He didn't specified anything else.



SONNET CLV said:


> The Sibelius Eighth Symphony. Please?


I wasn't aware that there was a myth of Silbelius burning stuff. If it's true then it's a shame.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> "In late 1814 and early 1815, Beethoven sketched the first movement of a piano concerto in D major, what would, if completed, have been the Sixth Concerto. He made about seventy pages of sketches for the first movement and started writing out a full score; this runs almost uninterrupted from the beginning of the movement to the middle of the solo exposition, although the scoring becomes patchy as the work proceeds and there are signs of indecision or dissatisfaction on the composer's part. This torso of a movement represents one of the most substantial of Beethoven's unrealized conceptions.
> Why did Beethoven abandon it? A number of circumstantial reasons might be adduced: perhaps he planned it for the cancelled benefit concert of 1815, or perhaps he intended to play the solo part himself and abandoned the project when his deafness made this impractical.
> There are however some musical features that may bear upon the issue: the style is at several points distinctly retrospective, and the materials are curiously symphonic for a piano concerto. As a result the piano part comes across as decorating an essential symphonic argument rather than representing a dramatic agent in its own right. There is some evidence (though Lewis Lockwood has contested it) that Beethoven recognized this problem and experimented with alternative structural plans for the movement at a relatively late stage in its composition."
> ...


I'm as big a fan of Beethoven as any, but I have to be honest. That sounds to me like a pale imitation of the fifth concerto, so maybe it's just as well that that one wasn't finished.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Conrad2 said:


> The magic genie want to grant your wish. Before doing so he want to know why you have chose that work among the eligible works you could have chosen. He also like to remind you that you have one remaining work you can wish for. It can be from lost or unfinished category.


What a generous magic genie!

Beethoven is among my favourite composers and symphony is my favourite genre.

Another one? Schubert's Unfinished.

Oh, and definitely Sibelius' 8th but I don't think it qualifies. Sibelius finished it but was not happy with the result so he destroyed it.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

i meant completed by Moeran. Im not a big fan of works completed by someone other than the composer


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> What a generous magic genie! Another one? Schubert's Unfinished.


You know, it's hilarious to see people actually taking this thread seriously


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

*Glazunov's Ninth Symphony (1910)

*Attempted at the time when the Russian Silver Age was nearing its end, this one-movement work demonstrates that the composer was onto something different, that new territory that picks up where the Eighth Symphony leaves off. But Glazunov did not go further for whatever reason and abandoned the project. It is an elegy and a sorrowful work, an yearning for years past where the turbulence was not so pronounced by the turn of the Twentieth Century as it was after 1905. Things clearly were not to be the same, as shown by the Two Prelude-improvisations of 1918, which is decidedly more morbid than the Symphony in question.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

hammeredklavier said:


> You know, it's hilarious to see people actually taking this thread seriously


Careful! The genie might hear you!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

- All the instrumental works that are lost, composed by Bach. Scholars think numerous such works are lost. Plus other missing vocal works. The surviving church cantatas represent about 2/3rd of what he wrote.
- All the incomplete works by Mozart.
- The first two missing operas by the young Handel.
- _Turandot_ by Puccini.
- A definitive version of Wagner's _Rienzi_


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> - All the instrumental works that are lost, composed by Bach. Scholars think numerous such works are lost. Plus other missing vocal works. The surviving church cantatas represent about 2/3rd of what he wrote.
> - All the incomplete works by Mozart.
> - The first two missing operas by the young Handel.
> - _Turandot_ by Puccini.
> - A definitive version of Wagner's _Rienzi_


You asked too much for the magic genie. He want to restore all of them but atlas only two can be chosen. 

After playing a game of eeny, meeny, miny, moe, he has chosen Wagner's Rienzi and Handel's Nero. If you want to restore something else, please let it be known.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

I'd like to hear an orchestrated version of Felix Draeseke's Violin Concerto. At present only the violin-piano score survives, but it is complete. It is a very attractive work, more so than any orchestra music by Draeseke that I've heard. Please Magic Genie, please.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

hammeredklavier said:


> You know, it's hilarious to see people actually taking this thread seriously


You don't have to take it seriously to find this an enjoyable 'makes you think' exercise.
I'm not sure if the genie would agree to this, but I would like to hear the outcome of Percy Grainger let loose with a Moog synth. He was really interested in New ways of making music, the soundscapes that he could imagine.


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## Superflumina (Jun 19, 2020)

Borodin's 3rd Symphony, any of Mussorgsky's operas post-Boris Godunov.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

*K.427*.........

:angel:


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

*Condition*:
- You can only wish for *two *symphony, string quartet, concerto, chamber, sonata, trio, or other types of classical music provided *that the second one is in a different category*. 
- *If you only choose pieces from one category*, the genie allow you to *wish for two pieces from the one category you choose*. 
- *All works from any composers or periods are eligible*, provided that it's CM 
- *You may not wished for something else* that is not relevant to the genie question or else he will transport you to a desert island. :devil:
- After making your wish,* the genie permits discussions about your and other choice of pieces *as he like these conversations. *Please keep your discussions friendly and respectful* or else he elect to send the offenders to a desert island.

New: 
- All unfinished and lost work requested by posters *are now granted* *without needing to give a reason for it*, while the magic genie want to know the reason behind it, he now preferred just to grant the wish. 
- All wishes are now automatically granted without the need for him to like the post.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Tchaikovsky's 7th symphony.
Beethoven's 10th symphony.


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## EnescuCvartet (Dec 16, 2016)

Bach's Luke and Mark Passions. 

Schubert's 8th.


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

Schutz's opera Daphne because it was the first opera in German, and probably excellent because Schutz was such a great composer.

And then I would like one that isn't lost or incomplete, but never begun. In his memoirs, Berlioz describes waking up with the idea for a symphony. He's immediately worried because he really doesn't have the time to write a symphony, and getting it performed would be endless trouble and expense. He fretted all day about it, by which time he had forgotten the idea, and no longer felt an obligation to write the symphony. 

O Genie! I would wish for the lost idea to be brought back as a completed symphony, preferably conducted and recorded by the late Sir Colin Davis. Why? Because it would be wonderful to have another symphony by Berlioz!


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)




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