# Help me decide my 2012 NYC trip



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I'll be the first to say that I hate threads (on other forums) where people ask others to choose things for them, being incapable of deciding between pop-tarts or yogurt for breakfast (pop-tarts all the way!), but I am well and truly stumped. My budget supports one trip to the Met per year, and I'm torn between these three productions:

*Il Barbiere di Siviglia*
Damrau, Lee (?), Pogossov, Del Carlo, Furlanetto
Pros:
- Big fan of Damrau
- Love this opera and never seen it in person
Cons:
- Peter Mattei is in the other cast ... aside from Del Carlo, not really thrilled with the rest of the cast

*L'Elisir d'Amore*
Renzetti; Damrau, Flórez, Kwiecien, Corbelli
Pros:
- Again, I'm a big Damrau fan
- Absolute all-star cast, vocally it should be one of the highlights of the season
Cons:
- Not in my top 20 of operas. It's enjoyable but far from a favorite

*La Traviata*
Luisi; Dessay, Polenzani, Hvorostovsky
Pros:
- Don't know if I've mentioned this, but I rather like Natalie Dessay. This would give me the opportunity to get my picture taken with her after a missed opportunity this year.
- Great cast
- Ms. Dessay is rapidly approaching an age where retirement is likely; who knows if/when I'll get to see her again
Cons:
- While I like La Traviata more than Elisir, I still prefer Barbiere more than either
- While I really love Natalie as a performer, her voice is not a good fit for this role imo, nor more generally speaking for the Met. Ms. Damrau has a much bigger and more lush voice that purely from a vocal standpoint would be my preference.

So I'm really torn. How can I pick against Natalie? And yet...

Anyone have any input? If anyone here is attending one of these and would want to meet up before / after the opera that might tip my decision one way or the other.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Well if it were me I'd go for L'elisir. What a cast!

I hate that Traviata production, I agree about Dessay, and I feel that Polenzani is bland.

As for Barbiere - well there is Damrau, but I don't like Del Carlo and who are Lee and Pogossov? But it IS a fun production.

So I'd vote for 
1. Elisir
2. Barbiere
3. Traviata 
in that order 

(Shall we make it a TC vote?)

OT - I've read about poptarts in Janet Evanovich books. What are they? (I'm guessing really bad for you)


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

I agree with Natalie. The cast for Elisir sounds absolutely spectacular.


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

I vote La Traviata!!

It is much anticipated, and Natalie Dessay gives her all in every role she performs, perhaps she isn't always suited to every role dramatically but, to me, she is just so magical on stage that she becomes the character no matter what. And Hvorostovsky as well? That's pretty amazing. 
I would give anything to go and see this - I hate living in England sometimes!
But yeah, I vote La Traviata, it is probably (like it was for Netrebko) going to be one of the real milestones in her career and I have faith in her as a performer - I don't think her Violetta will start ironing frantically or anything like that... haha
But obviously Elisir and Barbiere are awesome too, I would say Elisir next, because I love Florez


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Just had the bright (read: obvious) idea to check the Live in HD schedule. La Traviata is the only one of the three that will be playing in theaters, so with reluctance I'll eliminate that from my choices. Still tough -- one of my favorite operas with a decent cast vs. a good opera with a stellar cast. On balance, I think I'll probably go with Elisir unless anyone else wants to make a case for one of the others.

Natalie: Pop-tarts are a pre-packaged breakfast pastry wherein a thin layer of jam or chocolate or cinnamon, etc is spread within a double layer of pastry similar in taste and texture to shortbread pie crust, and generally with a layer of "frosting" on top. They can be eaten at room temp or warmed in the microwave or toaster. Definitely not a nutritious breakfast but oh so tasty, especially the S'Mores flavor (chocolate and marshmallow filling, graham cracker pastry, chocolate frosting).

Liss: There is no one who loves Ms. Dessay more than I, but Ms. Damrau is my 2nd favorite performer and the one who first got me into opera, and I think that for this year the choice of either one of my favorite operas or a stupendous cast will edge out La Traviata.
e: given that you live in England, I'd imagine it wouldn't be too much trouble to hop over to France now and again? She'll be singing La Traviata in Aix-en-Provence next month, Manon in Paris in Feb, and Hoffman (Olympia/Antonia/Giulietta/Stella !) in Paris in September 2012 (would kill to see this!). http://sites.google.com/site/dessaynatalie/concert-dates

Believe me, I'll trade in a minute -- you move to the US, I'll head over to Europe and count myself ahead of the game


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

rgz said:


> Natalie: Pop-tarts are a pre-packaged breakfast pastry wherein a thin layer of jam or chocolate or cinnamon, etc is spread within a double layer of pastry similar in taste and texture to shortbread pie crust, and generally with a layer of "frosting" on top. They can be eaten at room temp or warmed in the microwave or toaster. Definitely not a nutritious breakfast but oh so tasty, especially the S'Mores flavor (chocolate and marshmallow filling, graham cracker pastry, chocolate frosting).










My arteries hardened a little just reading that.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey, as long as your trip doesn't involve that dreadful Natalie Dessay, all is good.
I recommend that you change your goals entirely and include Anna Bolena with that fabulous Anna Netrebko La Bellissima.
She is so much better than Natalie Dessay!:devil:


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

rgz said:


> Just had the bright (read: obvious) idea to check the Live in HD schedule. La Traviata is the only one of the three that will be playing in theaters, so with reluctance I'll eliminate that from my choices. Still tough -- one of my favorite operas with a decent cast vs. a good opera with a stellar cast. On balance, I think I'll probably go with Elisir unless anyone else wants to make a case for one of the others.
> 
> Liss: There is no one who loves Ms. Dessay more than I, but Ms. Damrau is my 2nd favorite performer and the one who first got me into opera, and I think that for this year the choice of either one of my favorite operas or a stupendous cast will edge out La Traviata.
> e: given that you live in England, I'd imagine it wouldn't be too much trouble to hop over to France now and again? She'll be singing La Traviata in Aix-en-Provence next month, Manon in Paris in Feb, and Hoffman (Olympia/Antonia/Giulietta/Stella !) in Paris in September 2012 (would kill to see this!). http://sites.google.com/site/dessaynatalie/concert-dates
> ...


Aah fair enough  Damrau is a stunning performer, I always thought she was underrated!

Thanks for the link, I will have to check out her schedule because I have only seen her live once (Pelléas et Mélisande concert at the Barbican) and I would hate it if she retired before I got to see her in a full scale Opera!

I've never been to the Met and I hate how far I would have to travel to get there! So I would trade England for anywhere nearer to America! lol


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Hey, as long as your trip doesn't involve that dreadful Natalie Dessay, all is good.
> I recommend that you change your goals entirely and include Anna Bolena with that fabulous Anna Netrebko La Bellissima.
> She is so much better than Natalie Dessay!:devil:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Liss said:


>


It's a running joke. I keep teasing rgz about Dessay. I do like Dessay, but the two of us have this ongoing war of words about Dessay and Netrebko. It's all in good fun and not to be taken too seriously.


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> It's a running joke. I keep teasing rgz about Dessay. I do like Dessay, but the two of us have this ongoing war of words about Dessay and Netrebko. It's all in good fun and not to be taken too seriously.


Aaah I see


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> It's a running joke. I keep teasing rgz about Dessay. I do like Dessay, but the two of us have this ongoing war of words about Dessay and Netrebko. It's all in good fun and not to be taken too seriously.


I take it *very* seriously. You have impugned the honor of a lady, sir. As soon as you finish your nuclear annihilation of Il_Penseroso on the sands of the Sahara, I'll be waiting to challenge you on behalf of my beloved Natalie!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Hey, as long as your trip doesn't involve that dreadful Natalie Dessay, all is good.
> I recommend that you change your goals entirely and include Anna Bolena with that fabulous Anna Netrebko La Bellissima.
> She is so much better than Natalie Dessay!:devil:


La Bellissima indeed. I think Ms. Netrebko needs a more fitting nickname; what's Italian for 'chunky'?


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Liss said:


> I would hate it if she retired before I got to see her in a full scale Opera!


Well of course this you simply must do. I had the good fortune to see her at the Met in Lucia in March and it was thrilling. I insist you visit France and see her (and report back on your experience, natch).


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> La Bellissima indeed. I think Ms. Netrebko needs a more fitting nickname; what's Italian for 'chunky'?


_Paffuta_ might do. But women need curves!
She is adorably chunky.
Once she dumps her husband and moves in with me, I'll put her through some exercise, she'll lose weight.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> I take it *very* seriously. You have impugned the honor of a lady, sir. As soon as you finish your nuclear annihilation of Il_Penseroso on the sands of the Sahara, I'll be waiting to challenge you on behalf of my beloved Natalie!


You know, then Gaston may get the idea and challenge someone else for dissing Renee Fleming, and there are the Draculette fans, and so forth. By the time we're done, all these nuclear explosions will cause a nuclear winter and wipe out the whole of the human species and most of the other species. So much for opera. I don't think the cockroaches who will inherit the Earth can sing.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Paffuta might do. But women need curves!
> She is adorably chunky.
> Once she dumps her husband and moves in with me, I'll put her through some exercise, she'll lose weight.


Yes, I imagine the constant running away (as you pursue her, Pepe Le Peu style) would be quite the workout


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Yes, I imagine the constant running away (as you pursue her, Pepe Le Peu style) would be quite the workout


I'm planning to put her through some other kind of exercise once I catch her (how fast can she run anyway, given her current weight?):devil:

Uhoh... I hope this is not getting too gross.
My Anna knows that I don't mean it.
I wouldn't be chasing her around, but rather attending to her every wish in awed adoration.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

rgz said:


> La Bellissima indeed. I think Ms. Netrebko needs a more fitting nickname; what's Italian for 'chunky'?


I -- and probably quite a few other women -- wouldn't mind being "chunky" like Ms. Netrebko.


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

rgz said:


> Well of course this you simply must do. I had the good fortune to see her at the Met in Lucia in March and it was thrilling. I insist you visit France and see her (and report back on your experience, natch).


WOW. I would have sold my soul to see that performance! 
I really wish they would release her Lucia out on DVD, I might have to start a petition... 
Hopefully I will be able to travel to France to see her in the near future!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Liss said:


> WOW. I would have sold my soul to see that performance!
> I really wish they would release her Lucia out on DVD, I might have to start a petition...
> Hopefully I will be able to travel to France to see her in the near future!


I left out the best part -- waited after by the stage door (along with the other schlubs) and got to meet her. She didn't allow pics because she was out of makeup, but got her autograph and spoke a few words to her 
Wrote up the experience here: http://www.talkclassical.com/12572-6-days-counting-3.html#post149516

I, too, would love to see it on dvd but it doesn't seem likely; the same production (with Netrebko as Lucia) from the 2007 run was released on dvd already. The annoying thing is that there must be video of it somewhere since (1) Dessay's 2007 mad scene is on her Miracle of the Voice dvd, and (2) the 2011 version was shown in theaters via Live in HD series. Doubtful either will ever see a formal release, though. I've even written to the Chicago Lyric to ask about the possibility of a dvd from Natalie's 2003 Lucia, which got stellar reviews. The answer I received was that there are no plans for any dvd


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I left out the best part -- waited after by the stage door (along with the other schlubs) and got to meet her. She didn't allow pics because she was out of makeup, but got her autograph and spoke a few words to her
> Wrote up the experience here: http://www.talkclassical.com/12572-6-days-counting-3.html#post149516
> 
> I, too, would love to see it on dvd but it doesn't seem likely; the same production (with Netrebko as Lucia) from the 2007 run was released on dvd already. The annoying thing is that there must be video of it somewhere since (1) Dessay's 2007 mad scene is on her Miracle of the Voice dvd, and (2) the 2011 version was shown in theaters via Live in HD series. Doubtful either will ever see a formal release, though. I've even written to the Chicago Lyric to ask about the possibility of a dvd from Natalie's 2003 Lucia, which got stellar reviews. The answer I received was that there are no plans for any dvd


Anna got that market down pat, so, no share of it left for Natalie.:devil:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Anna got that market down pat, so, no share of it left for Natalie.:devil:


The same thing will likely happen next year, when the Met's HD broadcast of Natalie in the Willy Decker Traviata probably won't see a video release--having been preempted by the hugely successful DVD of Anna in the staging's earlier Salzburg incarnation.

The situation is intolerable. Something must be done, and soon!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> The same thing will likely happen next year, when the Met's HD broadcast of Natalie in the Willy Decker Traviata probably won't see a video release--having been preempted by the hugely successful DVD of Anna in the staging's earlier Salzburg incarnation.
> 
> The situation is intolerable. Something must be done, and soon!


Yeah, you're right. Something must be done. Such as, let's stop these lesser sopranos from stepping into Anna's definitive and spectacular performances of the same stagings!:devil:

We can refuse to buy tickets or DVDs of productions featuring anybody but Anna!!!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Yeah, you're right. Something must be done. Such as, let's stop these lesser sopranos from stepping into Anna's definitive and spectacular performances of the same stagings!:devil:
> 
> We can refuse to buy tickets or DVDs of productions featuring anybody but Anna!!!


You're killing me. You know that, right?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> You're killing me. You know that, right?


 That's the plan, I'll eliminate all non-Anna fans from the face of the planet (see above for the small nuclear device duel)


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> That's the plan, I'll eliminate all non-Anna fans from the face of the planet (see above for the small nuclear device duel)


You know, one of these days I'm going to play my trump card: namely, posting a poll as to who is the better soprano, Anna or Natalie. I think we both know how that would turn out


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Any non-Anna fans had better go and live in Switzerland first.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> That's the plan, I'll eliminate all non-Anna fans from the face of the planet (see above for the small nuclear device duel)


Why nuclear devices? Pistols are more gentlemanlike. Or maybe even swords. I vote swords.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> You know, one of these days I'm going to play my trump card: namely, posting a poll as to who is the better soprano, Anna or Natalie. I think we both know how that would turn out


 Now, seriously. Yes, I *am* serious. I can be, even when Anna is the topic.

I've just read almost cover-to-cover my copy of the current issue of Opera News. It's 2:30 AM here but when my Opera News magazine gets delivered I often don't put it down for petty things like sleep.

I'm thrilled to report that my Anna has been finally getting the recognition that her formidable voice evolution warrants. While in the more distant past her looks may have been responsible for a good chunk (oh wait... chunky??:lol of her fame, these days it is her spectacular voice and newfound well oiled technique that are drawing the most praise. If you have of Anna an outdated view, you need to read this.

"Anna Netrebko sang her first Anna Bolena at Wiener Staatsoper on April 2. Don't throw out your Callas and Sills recordings quite yet, but do move them aside to make room for the document of this performance ... Netrebko's assumption of this Donizetti queen takes her one giant leap forward to claiming the title of _diva assoluta del mondo. _Her huge, plummy voice sounded as beautiful as ever, but her technique showed newfound confidence in passage-work, particularly in trills, and seamless runs even to the lowest notes. ... The Russian beauty never betrayed the slightest bit of strain. Considering that this was a role debut, Netrebko showed more than just great promise. ... She could find her own unforgettable moments to match those of her great predecessors and fine tune what seems destined to become a legendary characterization. ... Netrebko was just a hair's breadth away from perfection."

Oh wow. And to think that I'll see her live in October in this role. Once she masters it even more - the above praise is for a role debut, mind you!!! - it will be perfection, not just a hair's breadth away from perfection.

Then, let's move to the critique of her Stabat Mater, Pergolesi version, with Pappano:

"Top-level musicians extend their own comfort zone with spectacular results ... Neither Anna Netrebko nor Antonio Pappano carries an early-music passport, but they could earn permanent visas with this thoughtful, committed and passionate yet stylish performance. ... Netrebko sings with more musical discipline and rhythmic backbone than usual here, and her superb sense of color and timbral variety is always a plus. She fearlessly attacks the high trills of the _Cuius animam gementem, _slashing through the texture like the sword the text describes."

Let's move now to the critique of Anna Netrebko's other Stabat Mater, this time the Rossini version:

"The soloists appear to have been chosen not merely for lovely voices and bel canto technique but for an ability not all stars possess: they can scale their voices down discreetly. ... Anna Netrebko, who could easily drown out everyone else in the room, restrains herself in duet and quartet to balance her partners ... Netrebko is the only singer here not famed as a Rossini specialist. ... It's a beautiful, womanly sound; the _Inflammatus _in which the composer most ardently addresses the seriousness of the occasion, soars to prima-donna-in-anguish top."

Seriously, folks. You need to revise your views of Anna. She is becoming a seasoned pro, a versatile, experienced, accomplished singer. We all know that her voice is beautiful. Now, with the evolution of her technique and broadening of her artistic range, she is assuming a formidable stature. Unlike many other singers, as she ages she is getting better, not worse.

She gave an interview recently saying how her voice has been darker and fuller after she gave birth to her child, and how she's been focusing more on technique and is planning a move from the sexy girls to the stately queens - of which her first attempt is Anna Bolena.

We haven't heard the last of this extraordinary artist's career yet, and I believe she will be delivering great singing and acting skills for many productive years, before the inevitable vocal decline.

And yes, rgz, she still looks lovely. But it's not just her looks any longer. You need to *listen* to her more, with an open mind, and you'll see how good she is getting.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aksel said:


> Why nuclear devices? Pistols are more gentlemanlike. Or maybe even swords. I vote swords.


This came from another thread. Il_Penseroso issued a slight against my Anna. I defied him to a duel and said that I'd pick the weapons, and would match the *small* offense with the right-sized weapon, thus the *small *nuclear device.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Alma, I've said many times that I really like her voice (even saying I prefer it to Natalie's for Violetta). In fact, I don't think I've ever said a negative thing about Anna except that she chooses roles that are not ideal for her voice, and that technique-wise she needed a bit more work. Great to hear that her technique is continuing to improve. But I really do like her, and if she's not in my top 2 or 3 for sopranos it's nothing against her; the coloratura fach is far and away my favorite so it's natural she wouldn't be my go-to singer 

e: Indeed, I have harsher criticism for Ms. Dessay than Ms. Netrebko and, to be completely honest, if only the quality of sound is considered (neglecting interpretation, technique, agility, etc) I would even give the nod to Anna over Natalie!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I would even give the nod to Anna over Natalie!


Great! I'll preserve this quote forever, and put it to good use in the near future!:devil:

*Hear, hear, folks! Il_Penseroso, come and read this! rgz likes Anna better than Natalie!!!*


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I knew even as I was typing that line how you'd react :lol:


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