# Popular singers you claim could have sung opera



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Kate Smith: potential Wagnerian soprano. Some claim she was really a soprano, not a contralto.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

It depends on the criteria. When does 'popular' music start? Many popular singers from the 20s and 30s did sing opera arias and before the advent of microphones the technique for both types of music was similar enough to allow for easy crossover.

If we take the question to mean which could sing opera with little to no training, then none of them! If we allow for what might have beens were they to have trained classically, then perhaps all of them!

Personally I would like to have heard Elvis as an opera singer. That was a rich, luscious voice, he would have made a fine Di Luna if successfully trained.

N.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Diamanda Galas


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Dimash ( was trained and has a 5 octave range). Streisand maybe- she had the range and beauty and better breath control than many opera singers but her voice is small. Sarah Vaughn definitely. Ella Fitzgerald had the beauty and range. Jane Froman, Andy Williams, Jeff Buckley, Patti Labelle,Phyllis Hyman definitely, Linda Ronstadt based on the Pirates of Penzance, Donna Summer - glorious voice with a big range, Michael Feinstein, Mahalia Jackson, Willa Dorsey ( great gospel singer with range up to D6) and David Cassidy.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> It depends on the criteria. When does 'popular' music start? Many popular singers from the 20s and 30s did sing opera arias and before the advent of microphones the technique for both types of music was similar enough to allow for easy crossover.
> 
> If we take the question to mean which could sing opera with little to no training, then none of them! If we allow for what might have beens were they to have trained classically, then perhaps all of them!
> 
> ...


Any singer known as a pop singer. And yes, some pop singers did sing opera arias in middle of last century because of the technique that focused on stready intonation, a flexible legato line, and clear diction. So many were might have beens. That's the focus of this speculation. For example, Doris Day took some lessons in early 60s singing Cherubino's arias. She could have been a lyric soprano. And Joan Crawford studied with Ponselle; Crawford I think could have been a lyric mezzo-contralto. And Jo Stafford was trained as a lyric coloratura.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Dimash ( was trained and has a 5 octave range). Streisand maybe- she had the range and beauty and better breath control than many opera singers but her voice is small. Sarah Vaughn definitely. Ella Fitzgerald had the beauty and range. Jane Froman, Andy Williams, Jeff Buckley, Patti Labelle,Phyllis Hyman definitely, Linda Ronstadt based on the Pirates of Penzance, Donna Summer - glorious voice with a big range, Michael Feinstein, Mahalia Jackson, Willa Dorsey ( great gospel singer with range up to D6) and David Cassidy.


Perry Como!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Going back aways ... Harry Secombe


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## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

Does "classical crossover" count as pop? I imagine Sarah Brightman could've easily pursued a soprano career.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Tom Jones
Tony Bennett


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Florence Welch... especially from the 2:40 mark...


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> It depends on the criteria. When does 'popular' music start? Many popular singers from the 20s and 30s did sing opera arias and before the advent of microphones the technique for both types of music was similar enough to allow for easy crossover.
> 
> If we take the question to mean which could sing opera with little to no training, then none of them! If we allow for what might have beens were they to have trained classically, then perhaps all of them!
> 
> ...


He apparently had good high notes, though maybe not operatic.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Otis B. Driftwood said:


> Does "classical crossover" count as pop? I imagine Sarah Brightman could've easily pursued a soprano career.


She did have a soprano career, only not in opera! She also had occasional lessons with an operatic soprano.


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## Machiavel (Apr 12, 2010)

Ella Fitzgerald


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Caballé said Freddie Mercury could easily have sung opera if he'd trained to do so.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> She did have a soprano career, only not in opera! She also had occasional lessons with an operatic soprano.


For most of her career she actually trained with my singing teacher, the late Ian Adam, who taught quite a few West End stars. He was an operatic tenor, who had sung with Scottish Opera and we all had to sing operatic arias in class.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Mathias Lindblom from Vacuum.
Amy Lee from Evanescence.
Annie Lennox.
Shirley Manson from Garbage.
Enya.


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## Andjar (Aug 28, 2020)

Chris Farlowe(ex. Atomic Rooster, Colosseum) should have been an amazing baritone.
Melvin Franklin (Temptations) WAS a great bass.
Kate Bush could have been the second Callas. She is the Callas of pop.

Caballe said about Freddie that he had a baritone voice but i'm sure he could have been one of the greatest tenors .


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Machiavel said:


> Ella Fitzgerald


They x rayed her face and her sinus cavities were twice the size of most people. I pity people around her when she sneezed. It is interesting that she never sang very high when she was young but when she took up scat singing in her later career she would often sing way up into the operatic soprano range- A5 for instance.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Actually Ponselle was discovered singing in Vaudeville, but it was different from pop music today in that you had to at least be able to project your voice to the back of the theater to be heard. She apparently never had a voice lesson in life, but did have opera coaches to help learn a role. They still study her technique in voice study classes today.
Patti Labelle was in a large outdoor concert when the sound went out and she could still be heard easily in the back of the crowd. Her placement was always in her mask and could sing to high C and did so often at concerts in a very operatic voice.
I would definitely say Whitney Houston who had both a big voice and an extensive range. She is one of the few pop singers who could do justice to the US National Anthem and she would sing up to high C when she did it. She could have been a great lyric soprano but it is hard to sing Puccini when you are on coke.
I would also mention her beautiful cousin Dionne Warwick who in her early career had an even better voice than Whitney and she also had a whole soprano octave on top of her rich mezzo pop voice. Her voice was so big she had to hold the mic way back on high notes.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> For most of her career she actually trained with my singing teacher, the late Ian Adam, who taught quite a few West End stars. He was an operatic tenor, who had sung with Scottish Opera and we all had to sing operatic arias in class.


S. Brightman had occasional sessions with English soprano Sylvia (…….) wife of Italian bass Enrico Fissore. She stopped singing because of an accident in which she lost one of her legs. 
I don’t know the specifics of what they worked on together, but it wasn’t a constant thing?


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Caballé said Freddie Mercury could easily have sung opera if he'd trained to do so.


So I'm going to say it. This is quite likely true of most of the great pop stars. Operatic training doesn't make a great voice, it's a technique to be able to make a sound that carries without a microphone. Almost anyone could learn the technique. A great pop star should have the musicallity and timbre that makes for a great singer. Of course, it takes a lot of dedication and that would rule out some pop singers. Then there is the study of languages and holding a role on stage across the whole of an opera, so that would rule some pop singers out. There's a difference between whether a pop singer could sing an opera aria had they the training and whether they could have made a career as an opera singer. I think most singers would be in the first category, but whether a singer would have the dedication and passion to follow it through to having a career is another thing altogether.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> S. Brightman had occasional sessions with English soprano Sylvia (…….) wife of Italian bass Enrico Fissore. She stopped singing because of an accident in which she lost one of her legs.
> I don’t know the specifics of what they worked on together, but it wasn’t a constant thing?


Sylvia... (I wish I could remember her name) and Enrico Fissore lived in Milan. She did run some courses in London, but I think those facts alone would mean that it couldn't have been a regular thing.

N.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

The Conte said:


> Sylvia... (I wish I could remember her name) and Enrico Fissore lived in Milan. She did run some courses in London, but I think those facts alone would mean that it couldn't have been a regular thing.


The, her name is Sylvia Rhys-Thomas.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

There is a british bass Christopher Purves, who began his career as a rock musician.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Dimash ( was trained and has a 5 octave range). Streisand maybe- she had the range and beauty and better breath control than many opera singers but her voice is small.


I have no (technical) clue about voices and singing but I found the album "Classical Barbra" quite horrible (and similarly horrible is the Villa-Lobos' Bachiana by the completely untrained? Joan Baez).
So from the poor performance of someone who DID try to sing classical I am highly doubtful about many claims in this thread that so many who never even tried would have been decent classical singers (again, the comparisons should be among professionals with at least national careers). Especially those after ca. 1950 because crooning softly into a mic is quite different from unamplified singing.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Kreisler jr said:


> I have no (technical) clue about voices and singing but I found the album "Classical Barbra" quite horrible (and similarly horrible is the Villa-Lobos' Bachiana by the completely untrained? Joan Baez).
> So from the poor performance of someone who DID try to sing classical I am highly doubtful about many claims in this thread that so many who never even tried would have been decent classical singers (again, the comparisons should be among professionals with at least national careers). Especially those after ca. 1950 because crooning softly into a mic is quite different from unamplified singing.


My sister,a German house soprano for 15 years and voice teacher for 40 years, said she had no doubt Streisand could have sung classically but whether her voice would be big enough for a big American opera house is another matter. Streisand sang Traumeri which goes up to an A5 in an operatic style voice on her Belle of Twenty Third Street and did fine but did not threaten Schwarzkopf, but she never had any training. Maybe it would be a tiny voice like Bartoli. I have listened to Classical Barbra a hundred times, Bernstein, no slouch of a musician, was a huge fan of it and she did real well in a lieder concert in our forum a while back. Others do agree with you on Streisand but Bernstein and I are big fans of the album. Julie Andrews, who had a beautiful voice and could sing classically in style, trained to sing opera but her voice was not big enough. Dimash has a university degree in classical operatic singing and is working on a doctorate in composition . He was invited to sing opera in his own country at their opera house. When he sings en alt he always holds the mic as far away from his mouth as possible and it does not sound like a whistle register like most pop singers use.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Not really "pop music", but Swiss yodeler Melanie Oesch could have been a wonderful opera singer. Something about the technique of yodelers helps them develop this MONSTER chest voice. There are girls younger than 10 who walk in with chest voices sounding like Maria Callas.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My sister,a German house soprano for 15 years and voice teacher for 40 years, said she had no doubt Streisand could have sung classically but whether her voice would be big enough for a big American opera house is another matter. Streisand sang Traumeri which goes up to an A5 in an operatic style voice on her Belle of Twenty Third Street and did fine but did not threaten Schwarzkopf, but she never had any training. Maybe it would be a tiny voice like Bartoli. I have listened to Classical Barbra a hundred times, Bernstein, no slouch of a musician, was a huge fan of it and she did real well in a lieder concert in our forum a while back. Others do agree with you on Streisand but Bernstein and I are big fans of the album. Julie Andrews, who had a beautiful voice and could sing classically in style, trained to sing opera but her voice was not big enough. Dimash has a university degree in classical operatic singing and is working on a doctorate in composition . He was invited to sing opera in his own country at their opera house. When he sings en alt he always holds the mic as far away from his mouth as possible and it does not sound like a whistle register like most pop singers use.


Had she trained classicallly, she may well have developed a large voice once the technique kicked in. The right technique can totally change a voice. Training adds volume and will also extend the range (except for a few singers who have a wide range naturally).

By the way, I liked the Streisand take on a lied you posted.

N.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> Had she trained classicallly, she may well have developed a large voice once the technique kicked in. The right technique can totally change a voice. Training adds volume and will also extend the range (except for a few singers who have a wide range naturally).
> 
> By the way, I liked the Streisand take on a lied you posted.
> 
> N.


My Dad had the Classical Barbra album (to try and get my mother who liked Barbra into more classical music). She doesn't sing to my knowledge in higher keys I noticed perhaps to avoid belting?. Baez was not trained as far as I know but her voice as on the CD I got called The Young Joan is definitely lyric soprano. As the years progressed she didn't use her upper range that much.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

The first one who comes to mind is Barbara Cook, but it probably goes for a lot of Cunegondes. 

Many years ago I wrote a play set during rehearsals of a production of _The Barber of Seville._ Several of the cast members had to pass as opera singers. We had quite a few actors auditioning. Among those we cast was Sarah Rice, the original Joanna in _Sweeney Todd. _A lot of Broadway actors have had some opera training.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Not really "pop music", but Swiss yodeler Melanie Oesch could have been a wonderful opera singer. Something about the technique of yodelers helps them develop this MONSTER chest voice. There are girls younger than 10 who walk in with chest voices sounding like Maria Callas.


I've posted this video probably half a dozen times - The last time was in the Jazz thread - Which explains why I'm no longer welcome there - There was also a bagpipe jazz video that didn't help much either...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> The first one who comes to mind is Barbara Cook, but it probably goes for a lot of Cunegondes.
> 
> Many years ago I wrote a play set during rehearsals of a production of _The Barber of Seville._ Several of the cast members had to pass as opera singers. We had quite a few actors auditioning. Among those we cast was Sarah Rice, the original Joanna in _Sweeney Todd. _A lot of Broadway actors have had some opera training.


Cook had the one of the greatest voice for musicals ever and could sing up to E6 all in the same blended register as the rest. She never had training. Her Dancing in the Dark has her using an incredible operatic sound on the F5's:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> My Dad had the Classical Barbra album (to try and get my mother who liked Barbra into more classical music). She doesn't sing to my knowledge in higher keys I noticed perhaps to avoid belting?. Baez was not trained as far as I know but her voice as on the CD I got called The Young Joan is definitely lyric soprano. As the years progressed she didn't use her upper range that much.


At the first of this campy number from Hello Dolly Streisand sings in a beautiful operatic styled voice from her upper register to a powerful sultry chest voice very quickly which gives you a hit at the potential she had if she had chosen to sing opera. Of course she would likely not be worth half a billion dollars had she done so


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I've heard it said that the late Uriah Heep vocalist David Byron had an 'operatic' range. He also displayed certain vocal mannerisms which weren't a million miles away from classical singing, but I'm not qualified to comment on how good he could have been in the operatic world.

How about Björk? She performed Schoenberg's _Pierre lunaire_ but apparently supressed any notion of recording it as she thought it would "invade the territory" of more established singers of the work. Maybe she could have had a tilt at the more off-kilter operatic output.


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## Patrick Murtha (Aug 1, 2016)

jegreenwood said:


> The first one who comes to mind is Barbara Cook, but it probably goes for a lot of Cunegondes.


Same here - Barbara Cook is absolutely the first name that comes to mind.

I would imagine that some of the rangier female pop belters such as Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera, Whitney Houston, and Céline Dion could have been opera singers with the right training. The natural talents are there.

It also occurs to me that someone in the 50s / 60s could / should have written an opera for Yma Sumac, whose vocal prowess was unusual. She did get a musical, Flahooley, which as it happens also featured a young Barbara Cook.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My sister,a German house soprano for 15 years and voice teacher for 40 years, said she had no doubt Streisand could have sung classically but whether her voice would be big enough for a big American opera house is another matter. Streisand sang Traumeri which goes up to an A5 in an operatic style voice on her Belle of Twenty Third Street and did fine but did not threaten Schwarzkopf, but she never had any training. Maybe it would be a tiny voice like Bartoli. I have listened to Classical Barbra a hundred times, Bernstein, no slouch of a musician, was a huge fan of it and she did real well in a lieder concert in our forum a while back. Others do agree with you on Streisand but Bernstein and I are big fans of the album. Julie Andrews, who had a beautiful voice and could sing classically in style, trained to sing opera but her voice was not big enough. Dimash has a university degree in classical operatic singing and is working on a doctorate in composition . He was invited to sing opera in his own country at their opera house. When he sings en alt he always holds the mic as far away from his mouth as possible and it does not sound like a whistle register like most pop singers use.


I think the crux is training - we don’t know what the voices would be like when trained to sing operatically. I didn’t like *Classical Barbra *because I expected something different. Also, a small voice doesn’t mean that it can’t have an operatic career, as Bidu Sayao, Kathleen Battle, Betsy Noreen, Judith Blegen, Dawn Upshaw, Juan Diego Flores, Luigi Alva, Nicola Monti, Cesare Valetti can attest. And I just mentioned the ones I can remember.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I think the crux is training - we don’t know what the voices would be like when trained to sing operatically. I didn’t like *Classical Barbra *because I expected something different. Also, a small voice doesn’t mean that it can’t have an operatic career, as Bidu Sayao, Kathleen Battle, Betsy Noreen, Judith Blegen, Dawn Upshaw, Juan Diego Flores, Luigi Alva, Nicola Monti, Cesare Valetti can attest. And I just mentioned the ones I can remember.


I think of them as lyric voices and all you mentioned sing regularly in major big opera houses in America and can be heard in the back. When I think of small I think of Bartoli who is lost in big houses I've heard critics say.
You sing very differently when using a mic than projecting to a house and I agree training is huge, but you have to have a very good voice to being with and many pop stars have careers with minimal talent. Some that we mentioned would have been good candidates to have gone the classical voice route I believe. As my sister says, you have to have a good natural range or she won't take you on. If you can only sing an octave like many pop singers you could train and train and never be able to sing opera . Possibly lieder, but you can't really have a career singing just art songs today.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Francasacchi said:


> My Dad had the Classical Barbra album (to try and get my mother who liked Barbra into more classical music). She doesn't sing to my knowledge in higher keys I noticed perhaps to avoid belting?


It's been so long that I got rid of that disc that I only remember I didn't care for it at all... Her other repertoire is not my cup of tea but neither have I anything against her, otherwise I'd not have tried that anthology.



> Baez was not trained as far as I know but her voice as on the CD I got called The Young Joan is definitely lyric soprano. As the years progressed she didn't use her upper range that much.


I am very fond of Baez' early albums but every time she goes beyond her folk music, like with the Villa-Lobos and also some pieces on the Christmas album Noel I am disappointed (she also recorded the Schubert "Ave Maria", I think). Not even sure if this is more technique, range or style, or most likely some combination.
I have heard a few other popular singers dabbling in classical, e.g. the (internationally not well known) German folk singer/songwriter Hannes Wader who did Schubert album and was not convinced. It's quite crazy. When I hear (young) Baez or (1970s, he is also around 80 now) Wader sing some folkish fare I imagine that these "natural" fresh voices should fit the more "folksy" very well but when they actually sing it, it's disappointing.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

The one who jumps into my mind is Tarja Turunen. "Who?" I hear you ask.

Here's what she's known for (vocal starts at 1:20):

[youtube]




And here she is in a more classical setting:

[youtube]




When I hear this performance, which is *long* way from perfect, I wonder what she could have become if she'd focused on her classical training when younger instead of switching to singing rock...


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

John Culshaw at Decca wrote about casting the recording of Carmen with Thomas Schippers conducting. As originally planned it would have di Stefano - eventually Del Monaco muscled his way in - but they were at a loss for a while who to cast as Carmen which eventually was Regina Resnik. Culshaw described that for a while he thought of asking Edith Piaf but thought this was aberrant. Since I read it, I really wish this had happened or even excerpts.

As an aside, one of my favourite records of Nadir's aria from Pearlfishers is by Tino Rossi who was best know for a cabaret/crooner style:




If we had Piaf and Rossi as the leads in Carmen, say, that would not break my heart


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> The, her name is Sylvia Rhys-Thomas.


YES!!!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> Sylvia... (I wish I could remember her name) and Enrico Fissore lived in Milan. She did run some courses in London, but I think those facts alone would mean that it couldn't have been a regular thing.
> 
> N.


As far as I know, they still live in Milan.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is adjacent to this general thread: increasingly rock stars are studying Italian bel canto techniques so they can sing with supported tones and not ruin their voice. They of course don't want to sound like Pavarotti but want to have relaxed throats and breath control so they don't ruin their voice. Voice teachers who analyze my rock idol Jeff Buckley's singing say he LOOKS in his face like he is straining for a note but if a knowledgeable person looks at his throat area and posture he is totally relaxed and supported. Lots of pop stars are studying the Italian techniques and you are seeing fewer pop stars getting nodes on their vocal cords and losing their voice because of it. Julie Andrews actually had great technique overall but undertook Victor Victoria on Broadway and it lay too low and it hurt her voice and was the cause of the nodes on her fabulous vocal cords. Leontyne said that she came close to damaging her voice recording Carmen which lay too low for her. My sister, a lyric soprano was forced by her theater to sing the mezzo part Mignon and she was very very careful with her voice in that role ( one of the few I saw her in). One more side note, Eileen Farrell had them move the mic 6 feet away from her when she recorded pop music as her voice would blow out the mics.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

There’s an article in The NY Times about a Met premiere of an opera based on The Hours. It features Renee Fleming, Joyce DiDonato, and Kelli O’Hara, best known as a star in a number of musicals. But also a Despina at the Met.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> There’s an article in The NY Times about a Met premiere of an opera based on The Hours. It features Renee Fleming, Joyce DiDonato, and Kelli O’Hara, best known as a star in a number of musicals. But also a Despina at the Met.


Well they finally let this country star sing in the opera.


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## The Wolf (Apr 28, 2017)

Revitalized Classics said:


> John Culshaw at Decca wrote about casting the recording of Carmen with Thomas Schippers conducting. As originally planned it would have di Stefano - eventually Del Monaco muscled his way in - but they were at a loss for a while who to cast as Carmen which eventually was Regina Resnik. Culshaw described that for a while he thought of asking Edith Piaf but thought this was aberrant. Since I read it, I really wish this had happened or even excerpts.


What?!!! 

¿Is there more information about it or where can I find it? very interesting in any case


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

The Wolf said:


> What?!!!
> 
> ¿Is there more information about it or where can I find it? very interesting in any case


I don't have a page reference, but I think it must have been Chapter 33 - Two Carmens in _Putting the Record Straight: The Autobiography of John Culshaw_ 
That chapter contrasted the experience of producing the Schippers recording with Decca in Geneva and what Culshaw describes as a happier and artistically better experience producing Karajan's recording in Vienna with Price and Corelli.


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