# Reference recordings:



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Do you have any recordings that you think are the best you can get of that particular piece/cycle?

Here are a few of mine:

Beethoven: Piano Concertos - Fleisher/Szell
Beethoven: String Quartets - Vegh Quartet
Beethoven: Symphonies - Szell

Brahms: Clarinet Quintet - Jost Michaels/Endres Quartet
Brahms: Piano Concertos - Fleisher/Szell
Brahms: Symphonies - Ashkenazy
Brahms: Violin Concerto - Oistrakh/Szell

Chopin: Nocturnes - Rubenstein
Chopin: Piano Concertos - Arrau/Inbal
Chopin: Preludes - Arrau

Grieg: Piano Concerto - Fleisher/Szell

Liszt: Piano Concertos - Arrau/Davis
Liszt: Piano Sonata - Fleisher

Mozart: Piano Concertos - Brendel
Mozart: Requiem - Harnoncourt
Mozart: Symphonies 38-41 - Mackerras

Mendelssohn: Piano Concertos - Shelley
Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto - Heifetz/Munch

Rachmaninoff: Piano Concertos - Shelley
Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - Fleisher/Szell

Schumann: Fantaisie - Richter
Schumann: Piano Concerto - Fleisher/Szell
Schumann: Symphonies - Karajan


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Beauty is in the ear of the listener. I'm not so sure I really agree with the validity of the concept of a 'reference recording'. Doesn't that turn the performance of music into a kind of competitive Olympic Games?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> Beauty is in the ear of the listener. I'm not so sure I really agree with the validity of the concept of a 'reference recording'. Doesn't that turn the performance of music into a kind of competitive Olympic Games?


Some interpretations and recordings are just that good that they become a kind of watermark / standard for at least a performance with a similar overall integrity of both the technical delivery and the interpretive aspects. That said, I would not want anyone to think because of that there is "only one right way" to perform a piece.

With some modern and contemporary repertoire, I think there _are_ truly definitive recordings:

Igor Stravinsky conducting his own works -- the series for Columbia Records in the last quarter of the 20th century.

I invariably prefer John C. Adams conducting his own works whenever that is available as compared to about any other available recorded performance.

Both composers knew / know exactly the sound they want, the tempo _juste._ The dynamic balance of the parts comprising Stravinsky's harmony can get quickly skewed under the baton of even otherwise excellent conductors, as can the same be true with Adams' works (compare Adams conducting his Harmonium to _any other recording of the same work._)

In the case of these two composers, I am rarely satisfied by a recording from any other than "the horse's mouth."


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Appalachian Spring, Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic. Never bettered.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Sure I have a few "reference" records, but not because they could not be bettered, but because I know them exceedingly well! (Barbirolli and Horenstein in Mahler, Kondrashin in Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff and Rimsky-Korsakov, Markevitch in Stravinsky, Kubelick in Suk and Smetana, Oistrakh/Malko in Taneyev's Concert Suite, Vegh Quartet in Bartok, Horowitz, Bolet, Cerkassky, Ogdon, Petri, Lipatti, Fischer and Anda on the piano, Harald Vogel in any Baroque Organ, Olivier Latry in French Organ Literature, Kevin Bowyer and Christopher Herrick in anything organ, Peter Eötvös in contemporary music, a list that could go on for miles and miles!)

Unlike PeterB, even if I often start with the composer conducting or performing (if such an alternative is available), I'm not always convinced that it yields the best or a perfect result. Fx. every time I've compared Stravinsky conducting his own works with the competition, I always seem to prefer someone else!

/ptr


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

ptr said:


> Sure I have a few "reference" records, but not because they could not be bettered, but because I know them exceedingly well!


I second that! These familiar recordings become standards by which I tend to judge other ones.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes, certain recordings of different masterpieces have achieved great acclaim and many
critics lionize them, but in almost every case I can think of others that are at least as good ,
or even better !
The more I listen , the less I am inclined to be able to pick a favorite among different recordings of any
given work . There are even some which have gotten a lot of negative reviews which I really like,
but I've always been a stubborn contrarian by nature , and even some which are considered classics
which have always seemed to me not all they're cracked up to be .
I don't think anyone can go wrong with any of the classic recordings listed , but there are plenty of
others which are truly outstanding .


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Holst's The Planets by Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal conducted by Charles Dutoit ( Decca 1987 ) is what I would consider a reference recording, as I can hear no deficiencies in conducting or in the recording. I have been very satisfied by it and really need to listen to no other, although a close second would go to Vernon Handley's recording with the RPO back in 1993.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Antiquarian said:


> Holst's The Planets by Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal conducted by Charles Dutoit ( Decca 1987 ) is what I would consider a reference recording, as I can hear no deficiencies in conducting or in the recording. I have been very satisfied by it and really need to listen to no other, although a close second would go to Vernon Handley's recording with the RPO back in 1993.


Have You heard Boults seminal 1978 EMI recording or Y-P Tortelier on Chandos/BBC Music Magazine?

Those are my Planiterian references!

/ptr


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Umm... Now that I think about it, I have heard Boult's, but not Y-P Tortelier's. I'll have to give that one a try.


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## ShropshireMoose (Sep 2, 2013)

Antiquarian said:


> Umm... Now that I think about it, I have heard Boult's, but not Y-P Tortelier's. I'll have to give that one a try.


And for heaven's sake give Sargent and the BBC Symphony Orchestra on EMI a whirl, it's coupled with a superb "Beni Mora" and "Perfect Fool". I've never heard a more aggressive and exciting "Mars"!


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I have any number of recordings that I consider "essential" (Karajan's _Der Rosenkavalier_, Gould's WTC, Beethoven's 5th by Carlos Kleiber, etc...) but I no longer really believe in that single greatest "reference recording"... although there may be exceptions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Someone said that great music is greater than it can ever be performed. I don't know whether I agree, but one of our criteria of greatness in a work of art is that it is rich in meaning - that it has the capacity to reveal more meaning the longer we are acquainted with it. That would seem to argue against the likelihood of any performance being "definitive." But sometimes a recorded performance does seem superior to the available competition, at least to a given listener. A few that I'd nominate are:

Brahms:_ Symphonies_ #1 and #4 conducted by Wilhelm Furtwangler. There's more than one performance available, but take your pick; in this music F. is in a different dimension from everyone else.

Wagner: _Tristan und Isolde_. Furtwangler again, the 1952 recording with Flagstad - not perfect (this hellish opera can never be done perfectly) but, at its best, again in a dimension of its own. The 2nd act _Liebesnacht_ leaves me feeling that no one else actually understands this music, and that the opera is even greater than we knew.

Wagner: _Parsifal_. Knappertsbusch here, with many live Bayreuth performances, different ones preferred by different listeners. For a thoroughly dedicated, musically satisfying, beautifully recorded version, I'll stay with the 1962 on Philips.

Bruckner: _Symphony #8_. Furtwangler - again, a different dimension. I think F. _came_ from a different dimension; there are many more miracles in his discography.

Rachmaninov: _Isle of the Dead_. Jascha Horenstein, who sees beyond the lugubriousness to the work's passion and love of life and creates climaxes of Mahlerian intensity. I played it for a friend, who said "So that's what this piece is supposed to sound like!"

Any number of operas and recitals recorded by Maria Callas. Her colleagues don't always contribute reference-level performances, but her matchless art elevates nearly every recording she participates in to the "indispensable" category. The 1952 _Tosca_ with Gobbi under de Sabata remains unequaled, and her live Berlin _Lucia_ under Karajan and the live _Macbeth_ under de Sabata are wonders of musical and dramatic insight.

A "reference" recording ought to teach us something when we refer to it. I think there are lessons in all the above.


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

When I want to hear the recording of _Salut, demeure, chaste et pure_ that represents the pinnacle for me, it's this:






There are so many great artists that have recorded this, yet somehow I always come back to Jussi.


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## SEALDOC (Jun 16, 2014)

Interestingly, I have only recently begun to reacquaint myself with "The Classics" now that I am, gratefully, a retiree. Having been neglectful of introducing my daughter (now in her 40's) to the joys of "classical" music during my very hectic working years and as a direct result of our being geographically separated by 10k miles at present we undertook to begin a CD presented teaching course together which we discuss over Skype every day. That brings me to the point of this post. 
In assisting her with building a repertoire, I have been having the pleasure of auditioning many more recent recordings of my "old standbys" many of which are difficult to source or are prohibitively expensive. I must admit a prejudice for the familiar performances but the quality of sound reproduction as well as the sometimes fairly obvious different interpretations of more contemporary recordings offers a whole new perspective for an old timer like me. Additionally, what a joy to discover remastered original versions as well as SACD's. It's a real missed opportunity for our elementary schools to have deleted even a small taste of what used to be called music appreciation. I suppose "Sex Ed" was a better choice for third and fourth graders.


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