# When was the last major premiere of a living composer?



## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

When do you think was the last major premiere of a living composer? By this I mean a work that generated true widespread love and acceptance. The composer could be dead now, but living at the time of the premiere. It must be a work that you personally consider could go down in history as one of the greatest of all time, this is what I mean by "major".


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I would be VERY shocked if there aren't at least a few examples of major premieres by living composers in 2016. Now the real question is the definition of 'true widespread love' and that is a totally subjective measure. My vote would go to Gerald Barry's latest opera _Alice's Adventures Under Ground_ which had it's world premiere less than 2 weeks ago in Los Angeles followed by one in London within the last week. Both performances received strikingly positive reception and reviews.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Becca said:


> I would be VERY shocked if there aren't at least a few examples of major premieres by living composers in 2016. Now the real question is the definition of 'true widespread love' and that is a totally subjective measure. My vote would go to Gerald Barry's latest opera _Alice's Adventures Under Ground_ which had it's world premiere less than 2 weeks ago in Los Angeles followed by one in London within the last week. Both performances received strikingly positive reception and reviews.


No mean to offend, but I doubt that opera will go down as anything but forgettable.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Not meaning to offend but perhaps you should give your definition of 'major' works that have 'true widespread love'. My point is simply that there is a constant stream of them, whether or not we have become familiar with them. Positive acceptance can only be measured by the overall reactions of those who have heard the works. I might remind you that there have been many cases of 20th century works which were well received only to lose favour for decades until times and views changed and they once again became a part of the standard repertoire.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Becca said:


> Not meaning to offend but perhaps you should give your definition of 'major' works that have 'true widespread love'. My point is simply that there is a constant stream of them, whether or not we have become familiar with them. Positive acceptance can only be measured by the overall reactions of those who have heard the works. I might remind you that there have been many cases of 20th century works which were well received only to lose favour for decades until times and views changed and they once again became a part of the standard repertoire.


I am asking for subjective opinions. You have to _personally_ consider it, at least potentially, among the greatest works of all time.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If that is what you are after then, other than asking for your opinions, I will retire from this thread as my feelings about 'greatest' are well known.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Becca said:


> If that is what you are after then, other than asking for your opinions, I will retire from this thread as my feelings about 'greatest' are well known.


I have no clue what your opinions are. What in your opinion is the latest great premiere of a living composer?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

never mind...............


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I am naturally hesitant to respond, suspecting you will merely trash-talk any work I put forward. And I do in fact have some candidates. Several have been produced since _Revolver _came out.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm not a prophet, but speaking about Opera, my favorite genre, I would say that the last premiere of a major, major work that I'm aware of, is "Written on Skin", that was staged for the first time back in 2012, at the Aix-en-Provence Festival.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

How about: Street Car Named Desire by André Previn?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

"Let Me Tell You" by Hans Abrahamsen has received a lot of love, including the Grawemeyer Award and a _Gramophone_ award for the recording. I see from Wikipedia that its premiere was in Berlin on December 20, 2013. So that's the very earliest I think one needs to go back. I'm quite sure there have been other "future hits" since then.

But being able to identify a new work as "one of the greatest of all time" is a ridiculously tall order, I have to say.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

*Glass*: Symphony No. 9 (premiered Jan 1, 2012 in Austria / Jan 31, 2012 in U.S.)

A big, ambitious and affecting work. Possibly one of his finest.

His Symphony No. 11 premieres next month. :tiphat:

https://www.carnegiehall.org/Calendar/2017/1/31/0730/PM/Bruckner-Orchestra-Linz/


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I am not sure that we have the perspective to judge the staying power of a new work. We can judge our own reaction to it, but staying power inherently means that it must continue to hold interest over a long period of time. In a few cases, that period of time may include a break where the work is neglected or even forgotten before being rediscovered. Still, the key to the overall judgement is time, and "now" is never sufficient time. (It probably doesn't help that the "market" for new compositions of a classical sort is small and mostly diminishing.)


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

I believe that we are now past the point (and indeed have been for several decades) where any single work within the domain of that which we may loosely, if rather awkwardly, describe as art music can possibly make, either at its inception or in posterity, the kind of impact of the great works of the past. The reasons for this state of affairs has, I would suggest, less to do with the merits or demerits of the work being created today, than with certain overarching aspects of the cultural condition in which we live.

If we are inclined to view the prevailing cultural realities in a negative light, we might point to the rather obvious fact of the relatively low esteem in which not only contemporary music, but also classical music as whole, is held when compared with popular music. To the great majority of the public, "music" is mostly synonymous with pop music. This is hardly something to be wondered at, however, but the inevitable result of the combination of the freedoms entailed by a democratic society and the dominance of mass media. Some may regard this as a lamentable decline in aesthetic standards, others as a triumph of the people, but I would say it simply is what it is.

In a more positive vein, we can point to the fact that contemporary art music is characterised above all by its enormous diversity, something I believe is a cause to celebrate. If there is any such thing as "progress" in the arts, it is due to the achievement of this state of diversity rather than to any given set of innovations or "advances". However, this extreme stylistic fragmentation has also tended to result in a corresponding fragmentation of taste and a rather unfortunate tendency towards a ghettoization within the already minority audience for contemporary music. I can think of scarcely any composer nowadays who seems to be universally admired (but conversely, it seems that just about anyone and everything will have some supporters somewhere).

Of course, there remains the obvious elephant in the room: the contention that art music has, regardless of its various idioms, suffered an overall decline in quality in a period which, according to the differing tastes of those who may argue in this way, might range from the last few decades to all or most of the last century. In this regard, I would tend to agree with JAS' post above: as with all periods, the music of our own time has yet to undergo that sifting process that can separate the few from the many. But I would also point out that the sheer number of composers working today makes it all the more difficult for any given one to stand out.


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

Retrograde Inversion said:


> I believe that we are now past the point (and indeed have been for several decades) where any single work within the domain of that which we may loosely, if rather awkwardly, describe as art music can possibly make, either at its inception or in posterity, the kind of impact of the great works of the past. The reasons for this state of affairs has, I would suggest, less to do with the merits or demerits of the work being created today, than with certain overarching aspects of the cultural condition in which we live.
> 
> If we are inclined to view the prevailing cultural realities in a negative light, we might point to the rather obvious fact of the relatively low esteem in which not only contemporary music, but also classical music as whole, is held when compared with popular music. To the great majority of the public, "music" is mostly synonymous with pop music. This is hardly something to be wondered at, however, but the inevitable result of the combination of the freedoms entailed by a democratic society and the dominance of mass media. Some may regard this as a lamentable decline in aesthetic standards, others as a triumph of the people, but I would say it simply is what it is.
> 
> ...


Excellent commentary.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> "Let Me Tell You" by Hans Abrahamsen has received a lot of love, including the Grawemeyer Award and a _Gramophone_ award for the recording. I see from Wikipedia that its premiere was in Berlin on December 20, 2013. So that's the very earliest I think one needs to go back. I'm quite sure there have been other "future hits" since then.
> 
> But being able to identify a new work as "one of the greatest of all time" is a ridiculously tall order, I have to say.


I must second, third and fourth this post on all points!

I have heard Barbara Hannigan do this 3 times, the world premiere with the Berlin Philharmonic and Andris Nelsons, the Gothenburg Symphony with Kent Nagano and this summer's Proms performance with the City of Birmingham Symphony and Mirga Grazinyte-Tyla, and each time my opinion of the work increased. Today I see that MusicWeb Int'l has given it Recording of the Year honours.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

"Widespread love and acceptance?" Most classical listeners are very conservative, so that would push this back to last century.

Eliminates Bartok Concerto for Orchestra; Sibelius Violin Concerto; Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1; Shostakovich Symphony No. 5; Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3; Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet.

*Widespread love and acceptance? * Back as far as Brahms Symphony No. 4.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> "Let Me Tell You" by Hans Abrahamsen has received a lot of love, including the Grawemeyer Award and a _Gramophone_ award for the recording. I see from Wikipedia that its premiere was in Berlin on December 20, 2013. So that's the very earliest I think one needs to go back. I'm quite sure there have been other "future hits" since then.
> 
> But being able to identify a new work as "one of the greatest of all time" is a ridiculously tall order, I have to say.


So this piece is "widely loved and accepted?" Could have fooled me!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Folks, read the OP. The last major premiere that has been "widely loved and accepted".


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

hpowders said:


> "Widespread love and acceptance?" Most classical listeners are very conservative, so that would push this back to last century.
> 
> Eliminates Bartok Concerto for Orchestra; Sibelius Violin Concerto; Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1; Shostakovich Symphony No. 5; Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3; Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet.
> 
> *Widespread love and acceptance? * Back as far as Brahms Symphony No. 4.


All the works you cited _were_ written in the last century. Our century is the 21st, a fact that an unfortunate number of people constantly need reminding of...


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I think there's some confusion about the exact intent of the OP. There seem to be 4 requirements.

1) The premiere was performed during the composer's lifetime.
2) The premiere was met with positive reviews
3) The work has widespread love and acceptance
4) The poster believes the work is one of the greatest works of all time

We might need a better definition of "widespread love and acceptance", and of course, the term greatest makes many here uncomfortable. Let's assume "widespread love and acceptance" means simply is enjoyed by a large fraction of classical music listeners. And let's assume that #4 is essentially the same as #3.

It seems that one could look at Nereffid's polls of classical works, select a cut near the top (maybe top 200 works or so), and then systematically determine the latest work that met the first 2 requirements. I'm not sure how easy it would be to know a work was clearly enjoyed at the premiere.

Anyway, Francis Poulenc, is this what you had in mind (i.e. not the exact procedure, but the general idea)?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

hpowders said:


> "Widespread love and acceptance?" Most classical listeners are very conservative, so that would push this back to last century.
> 
> Eliminates Bartok Concerto for Orchestra; Sibelius Violin Concerto; Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1; Shostakovich Symphony No. 5; Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 3; Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet.


Those works are all widley accepted in the classical community being performed and recorded numerous times for decades.

There are many many premieres by renowned living composers. Part, Adams, Higdon, Lindberg, Saariaho, Aho, Chin, Kurtag, Rihm, Reich, Gubaidulina etc... Widespread acceptance is a moot point concerning new works. Everbody knows Brahms because the music is 130 years old.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

I am assuming that "widespread" means "widespread within and perhaps a little beyond the target audience". If the audience for new music is a much smaller fraction of the general classical audience than it was 100 years ago, so be it. People who have little or no interest in new music shouldn't really get to be the taste-makers about new music, should they?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

mmsbls said:


> It seems that one could look at Nereffid's polls of classical works, select a cut near the top (maybe top 200 works or so), and then systematically determine the latest work that met the first 2 requirements. I'm not sure how easy it would be to know a work was clearly enjoyed at the premiere.


FWIW, if I take a cutoff of 60% (i.e, 60% of voters said they liked the work) then the most recent work is Shostakovich's Piano concerto no.2 (1957). (There are 258 works above the cut)
If I make the cutoff 50%, it's Messiaen's _Éclairs sur l'au-delà…_ (1991).
If it's 40%, it's Adès's _Concentric Paths_ (2005).
So inevitably it depends on what you want to mean by "widespread".


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nereffid - what is the most recent piece in your polls?


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I can just quickly think of Norman's Play and Adams' Become Ocean in 2013 but there will be others that have slipped my mind. In Vain by Haas was premiered in 2004 and that anyone with vague awareness of what's happening musically should be satisfied that it meets all the criteria (except the subjective one)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Retrograde Inversion said:


> All the works you cited _were_ written in the last century. *Our century is the 21st, a **fact that an unfortunate number of people constantly need reminding of...[/Q*UOTE]
> 
> The qualification in the OP is that the work is widely loved and accepted. I challenge you to find one classical composition that fits that description written in the 21st century.
> 
> ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

mmsbls said:


> I think there's some confusion about the exact intent of the OP. There seem to be 4 requirements.
> 
> 1) The premiere was performed during the composer's lifetime.
> 2) The premiere was met with positive reviews
> ...


Yes and given condition number 3, I challenge anybody to find such a work written after Brahm's Fourth Symphony.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

I would submit a little composition from 1962....


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Alfacharger said:


> I would submit a little composition from 1962....


Generated widespread love and acceptance?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Brahms Symphony No. 4 in E Minor.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Generated widespread love and acceptance?


Of course. Just the first page of a google search for performances in 2016.

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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Alfacharger said:


> Of course. Just the first page of a google search for performances in 2016.
> 
> britten war requiem performances 2016
> 
> ...


Oh please. The Britten War Requiem is a very specialized piece of music that the vast majority of classical listeners know nothing about. They are listening to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. Even the Ninth is too challenging for many of them. They would faint from "exhaustion" on having to listen to a 63 minute piece of music. Ravel's Bolero to them is great music.

I love the Britten War Requiem as well as Peter Grimes, but ask typical orchestra subscription concert goers about Britten, and the response you will get would be more like "Princess Diana" than a profound English composer.

The condition in the OP is music that generated immediate "widespread love and acceptance", the composer was alive at its premiere and could now be dead and the last piece of music I can think of that got that kind of reception was Brahms 4th Symphony that met all the conditions stated in the OP.

Sorry. I didn't create the conditions of the OP.


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

Poulenc: Dialogues of the Carmelites (1957)


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Yes and given condition number 3, I challenge anybody to find such a work written after Brahm's Fourth Symphony.


Ralph Vaughan Williams - The Lark Ascending (1914)
Maurice Ravel - Bolero (1928)
Aaron Copland - Appalachian Spring (1944)

I rest my case, M'Lud.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

John Williams, music to Star Wars, the first trilogy, 1977-83.

I think that checks all the boxes!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

2007 - *Gubaidulina*: In Tempus Praesens (Violin Concerto 2)

http://www.sikorski.de/1802/en/anne...ina_s_violin_concerto_in_tempus_praesens.html


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## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

I would assume that according to the poster who does the polls, the last work loved by most classical listeners is Shostakovich 2nd Piano Concerto. That seems about right. The difficulty of course is in finding those works written later, which _will_ be loved by most classical listeners at some point in the future, but are still relatively unknown today.

Unfortunately, listening to most modern music makes my ears hurt. I'm sure there are some golden nuggets in there, but pulling them out from obscurity is the challenge.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

One of Shostakovich's last symphonies.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I have a feeling this one of those "See? See? new classical music sucks" kind of threads.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

For a composer that's actually living still, "Music for 18 Musicians" by Steve Reich is obviously a highly respected landmark and is pretty recent too.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

I'd suggest Shostakovich's 15th symphony, premiered in 1972 under Maxim Shostakovich.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Becca said:


> Nereffid - what is the most recent piece in your polls?


A couple of works from 2014: Tristan Perich's _Surface Detail_ and Anna Thorvaldsdottir's _In the Light of Air_. But my coverage of recent music was patchy at best. IIRC those two went in because they were fairly high on Q2's new music countdown of 2015.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Hey! I love "In the Light of Air" and "Let Me Tell You". My love is always widespread


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

Brahms 4th Symphony? Seriously? Not one work by Mahler, Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Sibelius, Ives, Copland, Barber, Gershwin, Elgar, Bartok, Vaughan Williams, Btitten Strauss, Hindemith and numerous others? 

Appalachian Spring doesn't qualify? Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto? The Lark Ascending? Elgar's Cello Concerto? Sibelius' Violin Concerto? Rhapsody in Blue isn't beloved? Barber's Adagio for Strings is darn near ubiquitous. 

I could go on a long, long time. I've heard of conservative listeners but dismissing the last century and a quarter so totally seems to me like way over the top.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

techniquest said:


> I'd suggest Shostakovich's 15th symphony, premiered in 1972 under Maxim Shostakovich.


Cantus arcticus by Rautavaara premiered the same year.


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## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

Based on buzz, the last major premiere by a living composer is Thomas Ades' opera, The Exterminating Angel, just this year.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

jimsumner said:


> Brahms 4th Symphony? Seriously? Not one work by Mahler, Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Sibelius, Ives, Copland, Barber, Gershwin, Elgar, Bartok, Vaughan Williams, Btitten Strauss, Hindemith and numerous others?
> 
> Appalachian Spring doesn't qualify? Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto? The Lark Ascending? Elgar's Cello Concerto? Sibelius' Violin Concerto? Rhapsody in Blue isn't beloved? Barber's Adagio for Strings is darn near ubiquitous.
> 
> I could go on a long, long time. I've heard of conservative listeners but dismissing the last century and a quarter so totally seems to me like way over the top.


The OP changed his original post. He removed the critrium "must be universally loved" at its premiere and that's why I chose Brahms 4th Symphony.

Now that he changed it, who knows? There are so many to choose from. Good luck!


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## Valjuan (Dec 9, 2016)

Chen Yi just had a Piano Concerto that premiered...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Valjuan said:


> Chen Yi just had a Piano Concerto that premiered...


Sounds good!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Post deleted due to the fact that the original poster changed the criteria of his original post.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Universally loved. Yes. Brahms 4th Symphony. Read the OP. None of these composers you list were universally loved compared to Brahms and the premiere of his 4th symphony.
> 
> Once again, go back and read the parameters established in the original post. None of the composers you list ever got "universal love". Brahms did.


I believe that it was the music critic, Philip Hale, said should be put over a door in Boston's Symphony Hall? "Exit in case of Brahms"? That doesn't exactly sound like 'universal love'. Besides the entire idea of 'universally loved' is ridiculous, nothing has that, nor ever will.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Once again, my post has been deleted because the original poster changed the criteria of his original post.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

tdc said:


> never mind...............


At this time this seems the most appropriate answer.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

I would submit that both Jake Heggie's operas _Dead Man Walking_ and the later _Moby-Dick_ (2010) check the required boxes. Both are fantastic operas that I believe inspired (near) universal liking among those who have seen them.

:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## Czech composer (Feb 20, 2016)

Exactly! What universally loved mean? I don´t think that Brahms 4th symphony was at Brahms lifetime universally loved for example in countries China, Japan, Mexico, Brazil, Canada, India? Second half of 19th century and beginning of new millenium aren´t even comparable. At the time worldwide popularity meaned, that composer was popular in western Europe. It was more likely to take attention of poeople from relatively small area and relatively similar cultures and became part of the history. Nowadays its almost impossible to create work that could please people of all nations around the world.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

As a side note, Dvorak's 9th was composed 9 years _after _the Brahms 4th...

_"At the premiere in Carnegie Hall, the end of every movement was met with thunderous clapping and Dvořák felt obliged to stand up and bow."_

I suspect that there are a lot more people outside the classical music world who would recognize it than would recognize the Brahms


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

What are some good new composers to see in concert?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Define 'new composer'...


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

Becca said:


> Define 'new composer'...


Maybe someone up to around 30 years old making a name for themselves as a composer? I'm really interested what people could be composing in the present

Thanks


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

First of all there are a lot of composer over 30 who are currently active. As to those under 30, they are probably only known in some narrow circles as they are unlikely to have made a name for themselves yet in the wider classical world. If you will accept 35, try Nico Muhly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_21st-century_classical_composers


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## David OByrne (Dec 1, 2016)

Becca said:


> First of all there are a lot of composer over 30 who are currently active. As to those under 30, they are probably only known in some narrow circles as they are unlikely to have made a name for themselves yet in the wider classical world. If you will accept 35, try Nico Muhly.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_21st-century_classical_composers


Thanks Becca, I'll have a listen


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