# Opera on DVD thread has over 1000 messages



## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Now that the Opera on DVD has more than 1000 messages would be a good time to reconsider my suggestion of a subforum, where reviews of a single opera (and the comments on it) would form a separate thread. There are so many pages now that the same DVDs have been re-reviewed. Nothing wrong with that, but it would be more helpful, if you could easily compare all the reviews of a given opera. I don't know if it's technically possible to relocate the existing reviews under new threads and it would be an enormous job. Neither do I know what to do with messages dealing with different operas and the general chat in between. Just think about it!


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Seems like a valid request ... we (the forum staff) will evaluate this concept.



Herkku said:


> . . . don't know if it's technically possible to relocate the existing reviews under new threads and it would be an enormous job . . .


It's possible ... any post can be moved/merged into any thread, and any thread can be moved to any forum location - it is labor intensive moving large numbers of threads/posts though.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I can understand that, but I am still of the opinion that every opera should have its own thread in a subforum titled "Opera on DVD reviews" or something like that and the general chat could take place elsewhere. I'm very grateful, if you would even consider the matter.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Herkku said:


> I can understand that, but I am still of the opinion that every opera should have its own thread in a subforum titled "Opera on DVD reviews" or something like that and the general chat could take place elsewhere. I'm very grateful, if you would even consider the matter.


Here is a suggestion for Krummhorn.
Maybe you guys could make of Herkku a temporary/honorary moderator with merging/moving powers and he'd do the work.

I'd also love to have separate threads for opera reviews.

However, I'm not sure it would be wise to do away with the associated chat. Part of the fun of this site is that we exchange serious and useful info about operas, productions, CDs, DVDs, etc, but we also engage in friendly/funny chat in between. We don't want the site to become something like the Amazon.com customer review pages. The forum is also for the friendly banter and humor, and so forth.

Another thing that I worry a lot about:

What happens to these threads overtime?

There is a wealth of precious information, and I wonder if the threads get deleted when they are too old, to save server space.

If it's the case, we should be saving these threads on Word files or something.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I don't know how to handle the existing "friendly chat", either, and it is important! But if the different operas did have threads of their own, the friendly chat associated with the operas in question could go on as usual.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Would it be possible to keep the overall thread, but copy out the individual reviews, so we have some duplication but don't loose the chat (says someone guilty of being OffT more often than onT).


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

BTW, why did you drop The Golden Cockerel from the top 5 after "singing" its praises? I thought we had an agreement... Just kidding!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I would love to have a separate thread for an individual opera but we may end up with hundreds of sub-forums.

Or we could have sub-forums for composers?


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Almaviva said:


> . . . What happens to these threads over time?
> 
> There is a wealth of precious information, and I wonder if the threads get deleted when they are too old, to save server space. If it's the case, we should be saving these threads on Word files or something.


Old threads are never deleted. They remain intact on the server in perpetuity. Old threads, from inactivity, will eventually slide into the background of any given forum.



mamascarlatti said:


> Would it be possible to keep the overall thread, but copy out the individual reviews, so we have some duplication but don't loose the chat (says someone guilty of being OffT more often than onT).


That would be a very labor intensive project ... there are so many different discussions that intertwine between several threads. And like you say, dealing with the OffT's and trying to merge them into OnT's ... an almost impossible task. Besides that, when things are merged here, the forum software automatically places posts in "post date order - ascending". Once things are merged, there is no reversal process to put it back the way it was.



sospiro said:


> I would love to have a separate thread for an individual opera but we may end up with hundreds of sub-forums.
> 
> Or we could have sub-forums for composers?


The problem with too many sub-fora is the general appearance of the forum. Too many "subs" on the front page tends to look messy, and the main page fall off the screen ... also, for those on dial-up service (and I suspect there are a good number of those here) it would also take lots longer for forum to load.

As an alternative, a new thread can be created for each individual opera if you so choose.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

One subforum with separate threads for different operas is what I had in mind. That would still retain the ability to compare different versions with each other. One problem is that the threads would be arranged chronologically, not alphabetically by the name of the opera or the composer. So, perhaps it would still be a mess.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Herkku said:


> One subforum with separate threads for different operas is what I had in mind. That would still retain the ability to compare different versions with each other. One problem is that the threads would be arranged chronologically, not alphabetically by the name of the opera or the composer. So, perhaps it would still be a mess.


But we've been talking about a good 200 different operas. How would we have 200 threads?

The moderators are still to give the go ahead to this, so, we don't even know if it will happen.

I do feel that there are advantages to it. Sometimes we post or read interesting reviews of some operas, and they get smothered by the constant flow of other reviews on top of them. When we then want to consult reviews about a given DVD, they're lost in hundreds of pages, and the search function may not help because people don't necessary put the name of the opera on the title or even anywhere in the post, they just identify the opera by the picture of its cover, and the search function wouldn't track down names on a picture.

But I think it will only work if we make the number of threads relatively small.

Say, we make a few broad categories:

1) Early and baroque operas - Monteverdi, Lully, Charpentier, Rameau, Purcell, Handel... etc.

3) Early German opera until Wagner with the exception of Mozart

4) Mozart

5) Wagner

6) Verdi

7) Bel Canto - Rossini, Bellini, Donizetti

8) Puccini and R. Strauss

9) Other Italians including Verismo

10) French operas after baroque and before 20th century

11) Russian operas

12) 20th and 21th century operas

13) Countries/periods not listed above (USA, Czeck Republic, Spain, etc)

Something like this. I haven't given too much thought to these categories, they could be fine-tuned.

We'd have a sub-forum called Opera Reviews.

Anybody trying to post a review of an opera on CD, DVD, Blu-ray, or live performance, would go to the appropriate thread (or if they didn't, the moderators would move their contribution to the appropriate thread) and be encouraged to name the opera on the title of the post (if they didn't the moderators could add it).

That could work.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Is it possible to from subsubforums? I like your classification idea very much, but could your list be the titles of the subsubforums and the operas themselves would be the threads?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Herkku said:


> Is it possible to from subsubforums? I like your classification idea very much, but could your list be the titles of the subsubforums and the operas themselves would be the threads?


I don't know. But I still think that the operas being the threads will result in too many threads.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

But if they would be under the composer classification?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'd rather group the composers like I have suggested, except from the very major ones, like Wagner, Mozart, Verdi.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Agree with the general view that a directed and cohesive way to manage threads should be done here, as there are so many opera threads that make people eager to contribute of whatever listening experience rather difficult.

Opera is an elegant dramatic art form, so should the management of its threads here!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Herkku said:


> I can understand that, but I am still of the opinion that every opera should have its own thread in a subforum titled "Opera on DVD reviews" or something like that and the general chat could take place elsewhere. I'm very grateful, if you would even consider the matter.


Does it necessrily HAVE to be a subforum? I'm of the opinion that most internet forums have too many rather than too few forums and subforums. We could also do this here using thread titles as suggested by Almaviva: Opera on DVD - Mozart, Opera on DVD - French baroque, and so on....


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

I think it would be better to *copy* reviews to a special place where they can be conveniently found rather than *move* them (in other words: leave the original threads intact).

Special review threads seem to contradict the purpose of a forum (at least as I would interpret it) as something approaching casual everyday chat because in a review thread intended for the instruction of posterity everything would have to be carved in stone and you can't throw in quick remarks along the lines of "Almaviva thinks the Netrebko Traviata sucks, get the one with Alagna." To me, that seems to take a good part of the fun out of it. (I think the point has been made before here.)


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I have an idea for new meal.

Scrambled eggs from ananonymous donors's eggs. 

You steal eggs from in vitro clinic and make scrambled eggs from what you get.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Gualtier Malde said:


> I think it would be better to *copy* reviews to a special place where they can be conveniently found rather than *move* them (in other words: leave the original threads intact).
> 
> Special review threads seem to contradict the purpose of a forum (at least as I would interpret it) as something approaching casual everyday chat because in a review thread intended for the instruction of posterity everything would have to be carved in stone and you can't throw in quick remarks along the lines of *"Almaviva thinks the Netrebko Traviata sucks, get the one with Alagna."* To me, that seems to take a good part of the fun out of it. (I think the point has been made before here.)


Hehe, very funny! Don't mess with my Anna!:scold:

:lol:

That's why I hesitate about it. The funny bits are a big part of what makes this forum special. I'm afraid that if we get too formal about reviews, we'll end up looking like the Amazon.com customer reviews thing - that is, dry, boring, and not funny.

Maybe I'd just be content with a way to *find* the reviews that I need when I'm about to buy a new DVD.

People identify operas by the picture of their cover which doesn't help when we use the "search" feature. The same productions get reviewed more than once, in completely different pages of a thread. Threads become so big that it is impractical to consult them. So, something needs to be done, but I don't know what.

Maybe the moderators should leave it the way it is, like you said, but then copy the reviews to other threads grouped like I've suggested, for safekeeping and easy finding/consulting.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Maybe the moderators should leave it the way it is, like you said, but then copy the reviews to other threads grouped like I've suggested, for safekeeping and easy finding/consulting.


That would be a job of epic proportions. Just an idea. I propose that future reviews will be posted not on the 'general' opera on dvd thread but that they will be posted on new threads of the type you suggest. Previous reviews of the same work/dvd can be pasted on the new thread by whoever wrote that review. Most of them are on the 'opera on dvd' and 'currently watching' threads, so they are not that hard to find. And I agree that there should be room for comments, discussions, lighthearted remarks and all the other stuff that makes this such a fun place fun to be.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> Previous reviews of the same work/dvd can be pasted on the new thread by whoever wrote that review.


This is the only practical way to do it, I suspect. That way we can each decide for ourselves which of our old reviews are worth preserving, and post them into the new mix.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Quick question.

I've got my review of Mefistofele reading for posting. Do I create a thread called 'Mefistofele' or do I create a thread called 'Other Italians including Verismo' and then post my review on that?


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I don't mind how it's realised as long as we could get some order here, so that it would be easier to see, if a performance has already been reviewed, if an opera has already been reviewed, and somehow to get the reviews near each other.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Herkku said:


> I don't mind how it's realised as long as we could get some order here, so that it would be easier to see, if a performance has already been reviewed, if an opera has already been reviewed, and somehow to get the reviews near each other.


OK

Nothing ventured ...


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

sospiro said:


> Quick question.
> 
> I've got my review of Mefistofele reading for posting. Do I create a thread called 'Mefistofele' or do I create a thread called 'Other Italians including Verismo' and then post my review on that?


"Opera on DVD: Mefistofele" maybe. If we end up creating a subforum we can get rid of the "Opera on DVD" in the title later on.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Herkku said:


> I don't mind how it's realised as long as we could get some order here, so that it would be easier to see, if a performance has already been reviewed, if an opera has already been reviewed, and somehow to get the reviews near each other.


Ok, after thinking about it for a bit I support the idea for the creation of a subforum for opera on DVD. When one considers how many posts there are on a regular basis about the subject it's probably a good idea. And there's enough talk about other things concerning opera that it won't be the kiss of death to the regular opera forum.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Go for it, buddy! You said it's a job of epic proportions, but you know, we want to keep you busy. Job security!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Go for it, buddy! You said it's a job of epic proportions, but you know, we want to keep you busy. Job security!


I said I support the idea of a subforum, but before we can go ahead with one I still need to discuss it with the other mods and if we go ahead with it I'm not gonna plow through all those posts to organize them. The solution is much simpler anyway. Like, a few hours ago Annie posted a review about a Mefistofele DVD. Well, if anyone else has previously posted a review of that or another Mefistofele DVD he or she can easily paste his or her old post onto the new Mefistofele thread. It's bound to be on either the "opera on DVD" or "currently watching" threads, so those that remember writing such a review won't need an eternity to find it. Besides, I hope that these "opera on dvd" threads won't be limited to reviews alone but that there will also be room for discussions and such.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> I said I support the idea of a subforum, but before we can go ahead with one I still need to discuss it with the other mods and if we go ahead with it I'm not gonna plow through all those posts to organize them. The solution is much simpler anyway. Like, a few hours ago Annie posted a review about a Mefistofele DVD. Well, if anyone else has previously posted a review of that or another Mefistofele DVD he or she can easily paste his or her old post onto the new Mefistofele thread. It's bound to be on either the "opera on DVD" or "currently watching" threads, so those that remember writing such a review won't need an eternity to find it. Besides, I hope that these "opera on dvd" threads won't be limited to reviews alone but that there will also be room for discussions and such.


The format is still a problem.
One thread for each opera will be as confusing as the current 1,000 posts.
There are at least 250 operas out there that are frequently discussed.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I said I support the idea of a subforum, but before we can go ahead with one I still need to discuss it with the other mods and if we go ahead with it I'm not gonna plow through all those posts to organize them. The solution is much simpler anyway. Like, a few hours ago Annie posted a review about a Mefistofele DVD. Well, if anyone else has previously posted a review of that or another Mefistofele DVD he or she can easily paste his or her old post onto the new Mefistofele thread. It's bound to be on either the "opera on DVD" or "currently watching" threads, so those that remember writing such a review won't need an eternity to find it. Besides, I hope that these "opera on dvd" threads won't be limited to reviews alone but that there will also be room for discussions and such.


...and just to add to that, I've just been on the old Opera on DVD thread to check out Herkku's reviews of Mefistofele which convinces me even more that the orgininal poster should be the one to paste old reviews onto new threads. He opens his review with "and to round of this cycle of reviews based on the theme of Faust..." (or something similar). A remark like that makes perfect sense in the context of the Opera on DVD thread, but it wouldn't in the context of the Mefistofele thread. I'm sure that there must be numerous examples of such things in the Opera on DVD thread. So, I think it's best that the original poster pastes old reviews to new threads him or herself after having re-read them and edited them where he/she thinks it's appropriate.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> The format is still a problem.
> One thread for each opera will be as confusing as the current 1,000 posts.
> There are at least 250 operas out there that are frequently discussed.


I think there are maybe forty or fifty operas that are frequently discusses. The others are discussed much more rarely. We could of course limit ourselves to one thread per composer, but maybe it will be more convenient to search for the, say, Nabucco thread than it will be to find the Nabucco posts in a Verdi thread where there will also be posts about all of his other operas. I don't know, but it's something worth thinking about.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> I think there are maybe forty or fifty operas that are frequently discusses. The other are discussed much more rarely. We could of course limit ourselves to one thread per composer, but maybe it will be more convenient to search for the, say, Nabucco thread than it will be to find the Nabucco posts in a Verdi thread where there will also be posts about all of his other operas. I don't know, but it's something worth thinking about.


OK, then. But I'd be curious to know how many operas have been reviewed so far in the Current Watching and Opera on DVD threads.

Remember, Herkku alone has reviewed 22 of Mozart's. That's more than half already of the 40 you've quoted. Wagner has 10 frequently talked about - make it 11 with Rienzi that got some recent reviews. Verdi some 16. We're getting to almost 50 already and this is just three composers.

Clearly my number of 250 is overestimated, but 40 to 50 may be underestimated.

But sure, why not? If things get too confusing, you guys can always merge the threads later to group operas by composers.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> OK, then. But I'd be curious to know how many operas have been reviewed so far in the Current Watching and Opera on DVD threads.
> 
> Remember, Herkku alone has reviewed 22 of Mozart's. That's more than half already of the 40 you've quoted. Wagner has 10 frequently talked about - make it 11 with Rienzi that got some recent reviews. Verdi some 16. We're getting to almost 50 already and this is just three composers.
> 
> ...


Yes, but I didn't say that only 50 operas are discussed - I said frequently discussed. I mean, of those 22 Mozart operas Don Giovanni is much more often discussed than Metridate.

And I'm not saying that my idea of a thread per opera is necessarily the best solution. My argument for it is just an idea to consider, nothing more - nothing less.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Yes, but I didn't say that only 50 operas are discussed - I said frequently discussed. I mean, of those 22 Mozart operas Don Giovanni is much more often discussed than Metridate.
> 
> And I'm not saying that my idea of a thread per opera is necessarily the best solution. My argument for it is just an idea to consider, nothing more - nothing less.


I know, but if it's one opera per thread and one thread per opera, when Herkku gets to copy and paste his M22 reviews, he'll have to do 22 threads. Because I do think all 22 of his reviews are relevant, since people like Dark Angel and I have actually purchased the M22 box set, and I've read each one of Herkku's reviews.

However there is not much demand for an isolated review of Metridate, granted. So yes, some are more frequently reviewed than others. But that's exactly why it would make more sense to just group all Mozart operas under one thread. The main ones would be there over and over, and the obscure ones would be there once, without occupuying likely undue space with a thread of their own.

But I don't want to nitpick. Whatever is done, is good by me. Like I said, if threads multiply too much to a confusing effect, it isn't that hard to then merge them later.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Well once we've decided, any thread for an individual opera can be added to a composer or 'type of opera' thread.


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