# César Franck (1822-1890)



## cunhaecouto

What do you think about César Franck (1822-1890)?
Some facts from other people that can help you:
-Camille Saint-Saëns hated and hated Franck so much... I think he prefered Wagner!
-Edvard Grieg: (when he was listening «Les Béatitudes») «I don't understand why you, french people, just listen Berlioz if you have Franck wich has much more great music than Berlioz»
-Erik Satie: «one thing is clear: Franck is Franck»
-Marcel Proust loved Franck and the «Violin's Sonata» influenced «À la recherche du temps perdu» and other works by Proust.
-Jules Romain: (in a letter to Franck) «I want to know more your music master!»
-Pablo Neruda loved Franck but when he asked about Franck to Claudio Arrau, the great pianist answered: «Franck? You must listen Verdi!»
-Franz Liszt: «there is just one composer capable to create great instrumental music, this composer is César Franck»
-Hans von Bülow and Cosima Wagner loved Franck music. Franck dedicated a album to Cosima and she persuaded him very much to going live to Germany!
-Francis Poulenc: «I don't like Franck because he's not latin.» 
(.............)


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## elgar's ghost

Franck had the reputation for being a great organist and a mediocre composer until that amazing Indian Summer where he no doubt bamboozled both critics and fellow-composers alike with the magic that teemed pretty much perpetually from his quill from then on! I have most of the more noted works from his final years, the main exceptions being the tone poems and the aforementioned Les Beatitudes, and I don't think they yield anything to the contemporary output of the curmudgeonly Saint-Saens, who seemed to have little truck with the thought of sharing equal billing with fellow-nationals (even though I'm quite an an admirer of his work as well). One things for certain when comparing the two - Franck certainly knocked spots off him with his later keyboard works.


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## Xaltotun

Franck is never cheap; he is always noble and dignified, but on the other hand, his upper lip is never so stiff that it becomes a comedy. He has excellent balance between form and content. He is also... mysterious, much more than for example Saint-Saëns or Berlioz, or any of his contemporary compatriots, really. I love Franck!


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## Couchie

I have truly fallen in love with César Franck today. Incredible, effortlessly flowing music. I wish he had written about 10 more symphonies.

Does anybody know which other composers Saint-Saëns hated?


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## AH music

Strangely, it is two little known early piano works of Franck that I have really got to know and love. I bought the CD for the sake of the pianist featured, and the first two pieces I find most enjoyable (perhaps I am easily pleased by works of a simpler structure and emotional content, and just am not showing much sign of maturing in musical appreciation....) Anyway, I do appreciate the much more highly regarded later works as well, but listen more frequently to the Eglogue and the Grand Caprice.









I had a recording once with Franck's symphony coupled with Saint-Saens no 3 (Organ Symphony) and got into trouble with a friend who much preferred the Franck by saying that I liked the Saint-Saens. Maybe they would not have appreciated the coupling themselves.


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## Cosmos

Love him! His prelude, chorale, and fugue for piano is definitely a journey through a foggy night. He also wrote a very beautiful piano quintet in f minor


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## Vaneyes

Berlioz, Franck, Saint-Saens, a pretty good progression of distinct sounds...what's not to like.

Re Franck piano works, I enjoy Hough (Hyperion, rec. 1996). :tiphat:


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## Vaneyes

Couchie said:


> I have truly fallen in love with César Franck today. Incredible, effortlessly flowing music. I wish he had written about 10 more symphonies.
> *
> Does anybody know which other composers Saint-Saëns hated?*


Apparently, Debussy, Massenet, and D'Indy. Too, S-S walked out of Stravinsky's "Rite" premiere (before the riot). He couldn't appreciate Igor's writing for bassoon.


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## CyrilWashbrook

I played the symphony with my alumni orchestra in a concert a couple of weeks ago. It's a beautiful work and the experience was highly enjoyable.


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## Guest

Piano Concerto No. 2 In G Minor - very underrated piece


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## Don Fatale

I'm certainly a fan. By accident I've become a lover of French orchestral music such as Ravel and Debussy, and I think Franck sits well in their company. I'm listening to the full version of Franck's Psyché, a piece that pre-dates Daphnis et Chloe by 20 years. I think Rachmaninov must have been a fan - there are striking "echoes" in Rach's 2nd Symphony!


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## Vaneyes

*Franck's* Symphony in D minor is inspected. Re recs., I like Philadelphia O./Muti (rec.1982), and OSM/Dutoit (rec.1989). :tiphat:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tomserviceblog/2014/apr/29/symphony-guide-francks-d-minor


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## ribeirocouto

So you will like the new CD by Naxos wich it's play among other "Souvenirs d'Aix-la-Chapelle".
The pianist Patrick Dheur also registerd another pieces from Franck in CD intitled "Integrale de l'oevre pour piano de César Franck".
Finally Francesco Bertoldi played some fantasies for piano, editor is Dynamic.
But it's not yet all Franck piano pieces in CD!!


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## ribeirocouto

arcaneholocaust said:


> Piano Concerto No. 2 In G Minor - very underrated piece


Trying listen by Musique en Wallonie another works for piano and orchestra like the Variations quelque chose.....


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## JCarmel

Franckly, I'm a Fan!


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## hpowders

I'll pretend I didn't see that. Perhaps it will disappear the next time I'm Bach.


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## Chronochromie

I just Lisztened to his wonderful Violin Sonata!


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## hpowders

His violin sonata and symphony in d minor are all the Franck anyone should be able to Handel.


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## mmsbls

I adore much of Franck's music, but I've never managed to fall in love with the Symphony. On the other hand, his Violin Sonata, Piano Concerto No. 2, Piano Quintet, Symphonic Variations, and Les Djinns are all wonderful. Unfortunately he started seriously writing music so late that his output is relatively small.


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## hpowders

I grew up with the Pierre Monteux/San Francisco Symphony performance of the great Franck Symphony in D minor on an old vinyl RCA LP; mono, of course!

The first two movements have a mystical quality to them that I love.

Magnificent symphony! Magnificent performance!

Still purchasable. Takes me back to when I was a kid, first listening to classical music, some 62 years ago!


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## Blancrocher

Vaneyes said:


> Berlioz, Franck, Saint-Saens, a pretty good progression of distinct sounds...what's not to like.
> 
> Re Franck piano works, I enjoy Hough (Hyperion, rec. 1996). :tiphat:


I love that album as well. Some may also enjoy reading Hough's thoughts about the composer:

http://www.stephenhough.com/writings/album-notes/franck-piano-music.php


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## R3PL4Y

Can anyone recommend me good Franck recordings? Looking specifically for ones of the tone poems and other orchestral music he wrote.


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## majlis

His huge, large, dramatic and beautiful string quartet is IMHO one of his very best works, and one of the top quartets of the XIX century. A dense and difficult to play work, is almost forgotten and very seldom played live nor recorded.


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## chesapeake bay

majlis said:


> His huge, large, dramatic and beautiful string quartet is IMHO one of his very best works, and one of the top quartets of the XIX century. A dense and difficult to play work, is almost forgotten and very seldom played live nor recorded.


going to look into this one


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## Weird Heather

This thread came back to life at the right time. I just listened to his single surviving symphony today. (Apparently, he wrote a symphony when he was young, but that work has vanished.) Judging from the ready availability of this symphony on records from the early years of the LP, and in cheap box sets of records with titles like "The World's Greatest Symphonies," it must have been quite popular in the middle of the 20th century. One doesn't hear about it quite so much these days, but it still has its fans. I first heard it on a record from one of those box sets. I think it was one of the many sets from the Longines Symphonette Society (or perhaps something from Reader's Digest - I don't remember for certain), and I found it in a thrift store. Franck's Symphony in D Minor was there, along with many of the usual suspects. I was intrigued at first because it was unnumbered (unlike the others in the set), and I was even more intrigued when I listened to it. Over the years, I have come back to on occasion, and I seem to discover something new each time. I no longer have records since storage became a nightmare and I got rid of them (after digitizing a few favorites), but this symphony has been in my CD collection for a long time, and it is now on my hard drive where I can easily access it.

The recording I have is one of those many mid-century recordings - Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Pierre Monteux. It is, of course, a product of its time. Stereo separation is rather wide. Monteux gives a forceful performance that brings out the grandeur and emotional depth of the music. It has been a while since I have heard another recording, so I can't compare this to other performances, but I have found this one quite satisfactory.

I have heard relatively little of his other work. There is so much music out there that I simply haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe it is time to explore more of his music.


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## chesapeake bay

having looked into it, I would definitely recommend his quartet. Here is the first movement by the Fitzwilliam quartet 



 to give an idea of how it sounds, guess you need some muscular accompaniment


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## Judith

Love the Sonata for Violin & Piano in A major, especially the last movement!! Beautiful!


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## hpowders

Judith said:


> Love the Sonata for Violin & Piano in A major, especially the last movement!! Beautiful!


It even works for flute and piano!


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## majlis

I've it by the "Virtuoso" SQ (1925), and more "modern" recording by the Pro-Arte SQ (1933).As you can gess, I collect historicals. And a 1978 recording by the City of Prague SQ. You can say that I like the piece.


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## starthrower

R3PL4Y said:


> Can anyone recommend me good Franck recordings? Looking specifically for ones of the tone poems and other orchestral music he wrote.


Chandos CD conducted by Otaka. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Chandos/CHAN9342


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## Judith

Judith said:


> Love the Sonata for Violin & Piano in A major, especially the last movement!! Beautiful!


On the subject of this post from a while ago, just watched an interview on You Tube with Steven Isserlis and Connie Shi and this sonata was performed by Steven in the background. What a delight! Always loved it performed on the violin but couldn't get over the richness and fullness of it being performed on the Cello.


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## Bettina

Judith said:


> On the subject of this post from a while ago, just watched an interview on You Tube with Steven Isserlis and Connie Shi and this sonata was performed by Steven in the background. What a delight! Always loved it performed on the violin but couldn't get over the richness and fullness of it being performed on the Cello.


I've also heard the Franck A Major sonata performed on the viola and it sounds great like that too. For some reason, this sonata translates really well...I wonder if it's ever been transcribed for a wind instrument? But maybe that wouldn't work so well?


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## hpowders

I'm a bit conservative. I prefer the Franck Sonata performed on violin.

There are some passionate moments that only the violin can justly make soar.


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## Heliogabo

I've been exploring recently Franck's organ works. Great stuff! I like the way Olivier Latry make it sound like modern compositions.


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## Bettina

Heliogabo said:


> I've been exploring recently Franck's organ works. Great stuff! I like the way Olivier Latry make it sound like modern compositions.


I enjoy his organ music too. And his piano music! Especially the Prelude, Choral et Fugue.

One of the things I love about Franck is how he sometimes makes the piano sound like an organ. Steven Hough does an amazing job of bringing out this "organ-like" sound in his recording of Franck's piano music.


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## Heliogabo

Bettina said:


> I enjoy his organ music too. And his piano music! Especially the Prelude, Choral et Fugue.
> 
> One of the things I love about Franck is how he sometimes makes the piano sound like an organ. Steven Hough does an amazing job of bringing out this "organ-like" sound in his recording of Franck's piano music.


I haven't heard Franck's piano output. Sounds interesting, thanks for the enlightment. I hope I can check out Hough recording soon.


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## starthrower

I just bought some Franck CDs. I got the organ set on Brilliant Classics, a rare CD with the complete Psyche by Orchestre Liege, and a 2 CD compilation on Philips.


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## chromatic owl

The "Prélude, Choral et Fugue" is still one of my favourite piano works. About as good as a cyclic piece with a fugal ending can get, it is one of the few pieces of music which bring tears to my eyes when I only think about them. The final climax is so incredibly powerful and emotionally moving, also it came completely unexpected when I listened to it for the first time. 

If you are not yet familiar with this piece, I can highly recommend to give it a try!


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## Pugg

chromatic owl said:


> The "Prélude, Choral et Fugue" is still one of my favourite piano works. About as good as a cyclic piece with a fugal ending can get, it is one of the few pieces of music which bring tears to my eyes when I only think about them. The final climax is so incredibly powerful and emotionally moving, also it came completely unexpected when I listened to it for the first time.
> 
> If you are not yet familiar with this piece, I can highly recommend to give it a try!


With such a review, who can resist trying this out, thank you.


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## Judith

Judith said:


> On the subject of this post from a while ago, just watched an interview on You Tube with Steven Isserlis and Connie Shi and this sonata was performed by Steven in the background. What a delight! Always loved it performed on the violin but couldn't get over the richness and fullness of it being performed on the Cello.


Found out yesterday I already have it by Steven. Played it for first time thinking it was something different!

Now a dilemma!! I love both Steven Isserlis and Joshua Bell. Who's performance do I like the best????


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## Pugg

Judith said:


> Found out yesterday I already have it by Steven. Played it for first time thinking it was something different!
> 
> Now a dilemma!! I love both Steven Isserlis and Joshua Bell. Who's performance do I like the best????


Decision time.......


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## helenora

yes, Franck is one of the finest composers, unfortunately less appreciated than others maybe due to quantity of his heritage. Prelude Chorale and Fugue , right one of the best, but now I think I prefer more his Violin sonata, flight of imagination and is so wonderfully written, the texture piano and violin both are equal, perfect duo.


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## Sid James

*A Franck diary - recent listening *(Part 1 of 2)

_"The world of music at times unfolds itself to the fancy in the shapes and altitudes of the physical universe. There, in the upper ether, reposes the mountain of Bach; farther away in a fiercer light the peak of Palestrina pierces the heavens like a spear; in a middle height the warmth of a more humane air makes fertile the slopes of the Handel range; the volcano of Beethoven smokes ominously yet, but there are wooded uplands enriched for ever by the lava of the first eruption. The enchanted lake of Debussy dreams in the distance; there are the courts and palaces and lawns of Mozart; there is the country estate of Haydn; there are rocks and crags and thunder to the right, where the Wagnerian surge is never still. And standing aloof, rising from a plateau, is the cathedral of Cesar Franck."
_
Neville Cardus' eloquent setting of Franck in a landscape makes sense, even though his subsequent description of the composer as a priest-like figure is somewhat overstated. Franck was indeed unique, but he wasn't as detached a figure as some make out. As a composer, he was more respected than loved. Nevertheless, he was at the centre of French musical life, especially as a teacher and organist.

In his teaching at the Paris Conservatoire, Franck helped shift its focus towards symphonic and chamber music, which had previously been undervalued. His pupils included d'Indy, Chausson, Duparc and Vierne. Even Saint-Saens and Debussy somewhat begrudgingly admired him. His post as organist at Sainte-Clotilde, one of the most prestigious in the city, lasted for over three decades.

*Symphony in D minor* (1888)

Franck's influences ranged from Bach to Wagner, and along with Liszt he built upon Beethoven's methods of thematic development. It's entirely apt then that his *symphony* begins with a phrase similar to the opening of Liszt's _Les Preludes_ and the "Muss es sein?" ("Must it be?") motto of the last movement of Beethoven's _String Quartet Op. 135_.

That initial dramatic theme is joined by another which is lighter in mood, and they go through the whole work. The second movement collapses what are usually the middle two movements (slow and scherzo) into one. Two new themes emerge in the final movement, while earlier themes are reminisced upon with a drifting quality suggesting the sonorities of the organ. The work ends in a mood of blazing triumph.

The second movement, *Allegretto*, is my favourite part of the work. The meandering idea at the outset, introduced by strings, harp and English horn, is contrasted with a rhythmic and almost buzzing scherzo. The delicate but agile playing on muted strings reminds me of Mendelssohn's fairy music.

Initial reaction the symphony wasn't positive, although to some extent this was merely a reflection of the warring cliques of the Conservatoire. One critic's argument, that the prominent use of English horn was inappropriate, is a charge that sounds as ridiculous today as it probably did then. However, according to one account, Franck was simply happy that he had heard his music played.

Image: Franck as schoolmaster with pupils, Chausson being chided on the left. Cartoon by Jose Engel (1898).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwzaGHEWkAIjZuv?format=jpg&name=small
http://www.bruzanemediabase.com/var...reuse-du-cirque-d-ete_imageForGridderList.jpg

*Variations Symphoniques for piano and orchestra* (1885)

Even during his younger days at the Conservatoire, Franck wasn't overly concerned with convention. In his fourth year exam, he was given two themes, one was to be turned into a fugue and the other into a sonata. Franck combined both themes into one piece, a sonata form containing a fugue. His nonconformity cost him first prize, and he had to settle for second.

It seems to me that with *Variations Symphoniques*, Franck posed himself a creative challenge along similar lines. Could he write something for piano and orchestra which isn't a concerto but equally captivating? With the exception of Liszt's efforts, it is quite different from comparable works of the period.

The variations germinate from two themes. The first is played on strings and answered by piano at the outset, the second emerges in an extended piano solo shortly after. Throughout, the piano is on equal terms with the orchestra. The mood shifts from vigour to intimacy, the tunes from catchy to vague.

Cardus describes the latter as "a sort of hovering of tones and cadences," an indeterminate space where "the themes float, vanish, return, float away again." Franck's skilful handling of such contrasts make this a compelling journey from darkness to light.

Video: Frederick Ashton's 1946 production of Franck's variations as a ballet was revived in recent years. Here, members of the original cast and the new production discuss the challenges involved.






The recordings which I listened to:

Symphony - Cleveland/Maazel, Eloquence 480 4864













Variations - Roge/Cleveland/Maazel, Eloquence 480 4864





Selected sources:

Cardus, Neville, _Ten Composers_, Collins, Sydney, 1945.

De Voto, Mark, _The Hemlines of Cesar Franck's Critics_, The Boston Musical Intelligencer, 2015. https://www.classical-scene.com/2015/01/04/hemlines-cesar-franck/


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## Sid James

*A Franck diary - recent listening* (Part 2 of 2)

*Panis Angelicus* (1872)

This serene hymn to the words of St. Thomas Aquinas is Franck's most famous piece. Although it is a stand-alone piece, Franck added it to his _Mass for Three Voices_, composed twelve years earlier.

Originally composed for tenor solo accompanied by organ and strings, it has been arranged countless times. Some arrangements retain the sacred ambiance of the original while others give it an operatic flavour.

Video: Pavarotti liked to sing _Panis Angelicus_ in his concerts. He had fond memories of singing the hymn in church with his father.






*Violin Sonata* (1886)

Franck wrote his *Violin Sonata* as a wedding gift for a fellow Belgian, the violinist Eugene Ysaye.

The piece exudes warmth, but there is also a sense of drama beneath the surface. Its almost like a dialogue between two characters representing fire and ice. The violin's passionate outbursts are tempered by the piano. The opening motif played on the violin goes through the entire work. The mood changes from lively to reflective to joyful. The finale is a canon which doesn't wear Bach's garb too tightly. The melody is reminiscent of the opening of Beethoven's _Archduke Trio_. Fire and ice have come together, both instruments soar.

The unique circumstances of its premiere served to strengthen the improvisatory feel of this work. It took place on a winter's afternoon in the Brussels museum, where artificial light was prohibited. As afternoon turned into evening, the musicians couldn't see the music on their stands, and suggested the performance be abandoned. The audience would have none of this, so Ysaye and his pianist colleague continued in near total darkness, playing the final three movements from memory.

D'Indy was present and he wrote that they played "with a fire and passion the more astounding to the listeners in that there was an absence of all externals which could enhance the performance. Music, wondrous and alone, held sovereign sway in the darkness of night."

Video: Itzhak Perlman and Vladimir Ashkenazy rehearse Franck's sonata.






The recordings which I listened to:

_Panis Angelicus_

Aled Jones, tenor; Bryn Terfel, baritone; London SO/Barry Wordsworth (Arranged by Chris Hazell) - ABC Classics 480 9113





Luciano Pavarotti, tenor with orchestra and chorus under Franz-Paul Decker (Montreal, 1978)





_Violin Sonata_

Kyung Wha Chung, violin/Radu Lupu, piano - Decca 421 154-2
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n3JFeSp88kQOKC6Ac0Bnj53pz-jSrnGHY

Selected sources:

Article on Panis Angelicus, Classic FM:
https://www.classicfm.com/composers/cesar-franck/music/panis-angelicus/

Bookspan, Martin,_ 101 Masterpieces of Music and their Composers_, Dolphin, New York, 1973.


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## ando

*César Franck: String Quartet in D major * (2008, Naxos)
*Petersen Quartett*
*Friedemann Weigle* viola
*Conrad Muck* violin
*Daniel Bell* violin
*Henry-Davi*d Varema cello


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