# Create your very own Ultimate-Defiitive-Reference "Dream Team" production of "Carmen"



## Guest (Feb 22, 2018)

*Create your very own Ultimate-Defiitive-Reference "Dream Team" production of "Carmen"*

Every operatic singer who has ever sung an operatic note is eligible for casting...whether or not they ever actually appeared in this production is completely irrelevant...

Every singer is at the absolute peak of their career... they are healthy, happy, know all of their lines, and show up on time for rehearsals... no one cries in their dressing room and refuses to come out...

Every singer is willing to check their ego at the stage door and will accept a secondary role with alacrity...There are neither tempers nor tantrums... There are neither feuds nor rivalries...

You are an impresario who wishes to create the Ultimate-Definitive-Reference "Dream Team" production of Bizet's "Carmen"...

Each role needs to be cast...

You must choose a conductor... again whether or not they ever actually conducted this production is completely irrelevant...

You must choose an orchestra...

You must choose a venue...

Your performance will be recorded on either Decca or DG... you must decide whether you want to record a live performance or a studio recording...

Your forum peers will judge your production...

You can't use the Oeser edition - it lacks editorial integrity and thus it has been put to rest as requested...

Someone really should read Winton Dean on the subject but that "someone" most assuredly will not be me...

Here are the roles for "Carmen" along with the suggested voice type -

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano

Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor

Escamillo, Toreador - bass-baritone

Micaëla, A Village Maiden - soprano

Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - bass

Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - baritone

Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - soprano

Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - mezzo-soprano

If this thread becomes successful someone else will need to extend this concept to further operas... I'm only here because I have a cracked rib... which oddly enough really does only hurt when I laugh so try to resist the temptation to make me laugh, eh? Thanks!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

At the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano - Maria Callas
Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor - Alberto Remedios
Escamillo, Toreador - bass-baritone - Herman Prey
Micaëla, A Village Maiden - soprano - Victoria de los Angeles
Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - bass - Jules Bastin
Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - baritone - Ernest Blanc
Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - soprano - Ainhoa Arteta
Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - Nati Mistral

Berlin Philharmonic - Victor de Sabata


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2018)

Becca said:


> At the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano - Maria Callas
> Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor - Alberto Remedios
> ...


_Really very impressive, Becca - especially after I looked up everyone that I had never heard of on Wikipedia which was pretty much everyone except Maria Callas...
_
You also need to decide whether you'll issue a live or studio recording...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Really very impressive, Becca - especially after I looked up everyone that I had never heard of on Wikipedia which was pretty much everyone except Maria Callas...
> 
> You also need to decide whether you'll issue a live or studio recording...


Definitely live for that extra frisson.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'll go for the ROH, Covent Garden as well, mostly because I live in London.

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - Maria Callas
Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - Jon Vickers
Escamillo, Toreador - Jose Van Dam
Micaëla, A Village Maiden - Andrea Guiot (I honestly think she is the best Micaela on disc, but I admit I do like Becca's idea of De Los Angeles)
Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - Gabriel Bacquier
Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - Thomas Hampson
Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - Mady Mesple
Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - Teresa Berganza

Conductor - Sir Thomas Beecham 

Live as well of course.

Visconti would direct with designs by Lila de Nobili.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> I'll go for the ROH, Covent Garden as well, mostly because I live in London.
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - Maria Callas
> Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - Jon Vickers
> ...


_Really very impressive, Greg - especially after I looked up everyone that I had never heard of on Wikipedia which was pretty much everyone except Maria Callas...
_
Very nice touch though on adding a director and a designer - my compliments!

I can understand your decision to go with Visconti but if we decide to do "_La Traviata_" or _"Tosca"_ next I would pair Zefferelli with Callas...

And as far as Lila de Nobili is concerned - again my compliments! - I must content myself in merely plagiarizing Franco Zefferelli by stating _"She was the greatest scene and costume designer of the 20th Century, the teacher of us all. Every time I design an opera I think of her."_...

Full disclosure - I've never actually designed an opera and thus I rarely if ever actually think of Lila de Nobili but if I did I would but I haven't and so I don't...

You can also pick your choice of orchestras although your London location would suggest perhaps a preference for either the LPO or the Royal Philharmonic...


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Becca said:


> At the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano - Maria Callas
> Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor - Alberto Remedios
> ...


When do the tickets go on sale? 

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> _You can also pick your choice of orchestras although your London location would suggest perhaps a preference for either the LPO or the Royal Philharmonic..._


_

Well, I'd be happy with the Royal Opera House's own orchestra. Failing that, I'd go for the London Symphony Orchestra, which is probably London's greatest orchestra._


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> Well, I'd be happy with the Royal Opera House's own orchestra. Failing that, I'd go for the London _Symphony_ Orchestra, which is probably London's greatest orchestra.


It's my understanding that Beecham is most closely associated with the LPO (which as you know he founded along with Malcolm Sargent) and the Royal Philharmonic followed by the Liverpool Philharmonic and Hallé but he's your headache not mine... I claimed that the _singers_ weren't going to be temperamental... I didn't say anything about the conductors...

Becca will be thrilled that you chose a fellow Lancastrian who said and I quote "In my county, where I come from, we're all a bit vulgar, you know, but there is a certain heartiness - a sort of bonhomie about our vulgarity - which tides you over a lot of rough spots in the path. But in Yorkshire, in a spot of bother, they're so damn-set-in-their-ways that there's no doing anything with them!"...

Personally that's what I enjoy about Becca the most - her hearty vulgar bonhomie which oddly enough actually does tide me over a lot of rough spots in the path...:tiphat:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> It's my understanding that Beecham is most closely associated with the LPO (which as you know he founded along with Malcolm Sargent) and the Royal Philharmonic followed by the Liverpool Philharmonic and Hallé but he's your headache not mine... I claimed that the _singers_ weren't going to be temperamental... I didn't say anything about the conductors...
> :tiphat:


That goes without saying as 'non-temperamental conductor' is a contradiction in terms, particularly from the 20th century.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> It's my understanding that Beecham is most closely associated with the LPO (which as you know he founded along with Malcolm Sargent) and the Royal Philharmonic followed by the Liverpool Philharmonic and Hallé but he's your headache not mine... I claimed that the _singers_ weren't going to be temperamental... I didn't say anything about the conductors...




You make a god point about Beecham's chosen orchestra, but he also conducted the Royal Opera House Orchestra, when he conducted there.

I don't think he would mind conducting the LSO, given its current pre-eminence.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Live performance of Bizet's "Carmen" at Teatro de la Maestranza, Seville



Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - Teresa Berganza
Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - Plácido Domingo
Escamillo, Toreador - Carlos Alvarez
Micaela, A Village Maiden - Victoria de los Angeles
Zuñiga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - Carlos Chausson
Morales, Corporal of Dragoons - Angel Odena
Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - Mariola Cantarero
Mercedes, Companion of Carmen - Nancy Fabiola Herrera


Conductor - Pablo Heras-Casado 


Stage Director - La Fura dels Baus


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2018)

I've taken the liberty of posting RES's PM to me in regards to this thread...

"Hi NaaW, Miserable to have cracked a rib. I hope recovery is quick! I'd be happy to read the new thread but I am not a huge Carmen person. I like Callas though her voice is gone by then and she might be too much of a hellion; Price sounds fantastic but isn't enough of one. Everyone likes Victoria de los Angeles but I have always thought she was completely miscast, being too sweet and innocent sounding. Gedda is a stylish tenor (with Vicky and Callas), if a bit whiny. Corelli (with Price) is glorious except that his bizarre French is very funny. I also prefer it with spoken dialogue rather than the Guiraud added recits. There's a recording with Bumbry and Vickers which may be the best compromise. It has one odd feature though, which is both good and bad: the spoken dialog is done by a secondary cast of actors. There's a very old, very French recording from the opera Comique with Solange Michel and Raoul Jobin, with dialog, that may hit it, but it always feels dull to me. I don't have much to add. All best wishes, Robert"

_Really very impressive, Robert - especially after I looked up everyone that I had never heard of on Wikipedia which was pretty much everyone except Maria Callas..._


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2018)

schigolch said:


> Live performance of Bizet's "Carmen" at Teatro de la Maestranza, Seville
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - Teresa Berganza
> Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - Plácido Domingo
> ...


_Really very impressive, Schigolch - especially after I looked up everyone that I had never heard of on Wikipedia which was pretty much everyone except Plácido Domingo...

By the way... "La Fura dels Baus" in Catalan means "The ferret from Els Baus"...

Kudos and a tip of the hat :tiphat: to Schigolch for being the first forum member to extend the concept to include a ferret... Now that's talent!
_


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Try to best this:
Carmen: Rise Stevens ( holds the record for Carmens at the Met)
Don Jose: Franco Corelli.
Escamelio: Leonard Warren. 
Michaela: Anna Moffo


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> That goes without saying as 'non-temperamental conductor' is a contradiction in terms, particularly from the 20th century.


Never fond of disagreeing with you, Becca... but would conductors actually have any reason to be temperamental if musicians weren't so irritating?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

There is a line about the difference between physicians and surgeons ... i.e. that physicians know everything and do nothing whereas surgeons know nothing and do everything*. I suspect that an orchestra is formed of conductor who knows everything and does nothing (other than wave his/her arms) and 80+ musicians who do everything and (according to the conductor) know nothing.

* ... and then there are pathologists who know everything and do everything ... but too late.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Try to best this:
> Carmen: Rise Stevens ( holds the record for Carmens at the Met)
> Don Jose: Franco Corelli.
> Escamelio: Leonard Warren.
> Michaela: Anna Moffo


Hmmm...that's odd... no conductor... no orchestra... no venue...

Reckon this is going to be an a cappella version of "Carmen" busked in Covent Garden, eh?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Try to best this:
> Carmen: Rise Stevens ( holds the record for Carmens at the Met)
> Don Jose: Franco Corelli.
> Escamelio: Leonard Warren.
> Michaela: Anna Moffo


Just out of interest ... what language will Corelli be pretending to sing?


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> Just out of interest ... what language will Corelli be pretending to sing?


:lol: Classic example of vintage Becca...


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> I suspect that an orchestra is formed of a conductor who knows everything and does nothing (_other than wave his/her arms_) and 80+ musicians who do everything and (according to the conductor) know nothing.


This coming from someone who uses a photo of Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla conducting as her avatar... 

(Too bad I didn't write the above sentence _before_ Becca caught me pulling a fast one, eh? I did think that her avatar was Barbara Hannigan but compare the pictures - who sees a difference other than her?)

















Fabulous looking blond-haired babes with long well-toned arms... six of one - a half dozen of the other...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> This coming from someone who uses a photo of Barbara Hannigan conducting as her avatar...


My (current) avatar is Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla :scold:


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - Maria Callas

Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - Jonas Kaufmann

Escamillo, Toreador - José van Dam

Micaëla, A Village Maiden - Kiri Te Kanawa

Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - Ezio Pinza (yeah, yeah, I know he's a basso cantabile but he had a very nice low range down to low d so cut me some slack, eh?

Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - Tita Ruffo

Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - Anna Netrebko

Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - Cecilia Bartoli (technically a soprano but she can and has doubled as a mezzo-soprano)

Conductor - Claudio Abbado

Orchestra - London Symphony Orchestra

Venue - La Scala - live recording...


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> My (current) avatar is Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla :scold:


Curses! Caught pulling a fast one... clever enough to change my original post in time - not nearly clever enough to figure out how to change the quote...

But honestly... like there's any real difference between Barbara Hannigan and Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla overlooking for the sake of argument that one is Canadian and the other is Lithuanian and one sings and the other doesn't and one is a year younger than my mother and the other is 16 years younger than my mother but seriously if you're going to start nitpicking over petty insignificant details like those mentioned above then there's nothing left for me to do other than take the high road and walk away...

Fabulous looking blond-haired babes with long well-toned arms... six of one - a half dozen of the other...

You've been in SoCal for too long... if you had stayed in Lancaster for at least a couple of weeks longer you would still have the "hearty vulgar bonhomie" that Sir Thomas Beecham thinks is such an attractive quality for Lancastrians to have...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Hmmm...that's odd... no conductor... no orchestra... no venue...
> 
> Reckon this is going to be an a cappella version of "Carmen" busked in Covent Garden, eh? Venue... I would like it here is Seattle so I could hear it live.


You are funny. I am not knowledgeable about orchestras and conductors. It is just not something that ever interested me so I left that to others. My interest is all about the singers. I say my choice of singers is hard to beat.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Becca said:


> Just out of interest ... what language will Corelli be pretending to sing?


You are funny. I do not speak French or Italian so I don't care. Clearly you are more discerning than me. I also find that his looks trump any bad pronunciation. I'll stick with subtitles, which of course weren't invented when any of my choice singers were singing.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are funny. I do not speak French or Italian so I don't care. Clearly you are more discerning than me. I also find that his looks trump any bad pronunciation. I'll stick with subtitles, which of course weren't invented when any of my choice singers were singing.


Please stay as you are S.O.F. your unique as you are. :tiphat:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are funny. I do not speak French or Italian so I don't care. Clearly you are more discerning than me. I also find that his looks trump any bad pronunciation. I'll stick with subtitles, which of course weren't invented when any of my choice singers were singing.


Mangled French is one of my bugbears. Corelli is one of the worst offenders, but there are others. Christoff's Mephistopheles in Gounod's *Faust* all but ruins an excellent set, but then at least we have De Los Angeles and Gedda in the main roles, and a host of French or French speaking singers in the others. I'd love to know what language Corelli and Sutherland are singing in Bonynge's version. It bears very little resemblance to French.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Try to best this:
> Carmen: Rise Stevens ( holds the record for Carmens at the Met)
> Don Jose: Franco Corelli.
> Escamelio: Leonard Warren.
> Michaela: Anna Moffo


How we all differ.

Not a performance I'd be rushing to I'm afraid. Maybe for Moffo and Warren.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> It's my understanding that Beecham is most closely associated with the LPO (which as you know he founded along with Malcolm Sargent) and the Royal Philharmonic followed by the Liverpool Philharmonic and Hallé but he's your headache not mine... I claimed that the _singers_ weren't going to be temperamental... I didn't say anything about the conductors...




Interestingly, Callas was the first choice for the Beecham recording, but she turned it down, because "My French isn't good enough yet." Proper understanding and articulation of the text was of major importance to her.

Beecham went on to record the opera with the adorably charming and wonderfully musical Victoria De Los Angeles, but, love her though I do, she never seems like a Carmen to me. There is no danger in the portrayal, and I just can't imagine her Carmen ever pulling a knife on a fellow worker. Becca's suggestion of Micaela is a much better role for her.

Callas eventually recorded her strikingly individual, unconventional Carmen under Prêtre, but I do wonder what a Callas/Beecham *Carmen* would have been like.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

For me, I would love one one of those Decca studio recordings in great sound with a cast mixing veterans with future stars in the smaller parts. If it was made in the late 1960s/early 1970s when the technology was great and these singers were on form that would be just fine  lol

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl – mezzo-soprano	Huguette Tourangeau

Don José, Corporal of Dragoons – tenor	Luciano Pavarotti (presumably after a year's sabbatical for the language)

Escamillo, Toreador – bass-baritone Nicolai Ghiaurov

Micaëla, A Village Maiden – soprano	Joan Sutherland (on Fille du Regiment form!)

Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons – bass	Samuel Ramey

Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons – baritone	Ramon Vinay

Frasquita, Companion of Carmen – soprano Kiri Te Kanawa

Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - mezzo-soprano Frederica von Stade

Karajan conducting either the Berlin or Vienna Philharmonics would be nice as well please


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

davidglasgow said:


> For me, I would love one one of those Decca studio recordings in great sound with a cast mixing veterans with future stars in the smaller parts. If it was made in the late 1960s/early 1970s when the technology was great and these singers were on form that would be just fine  lol
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano	Huguette Tourangeau
> 
> ...


Now my heart is beating faster.................:angel:


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> Mangled French is one of my bugbears. I'd love to know what language Corelli and Sutherland are singing in Bonynge's version. It bears very little resemblance to French.


Only half-kidding but perhaps they decided for artistic reasons known only to themselves to play their roles as if they were French-Canadians...

"Québécois" the form of French spoken oddly enough in Quebec (I reckon that's why they call it "Québécois", eh?) bears very little resemblance to the form which is considered "Standard French" which would be spoken in say France for instance...

I spent a fair amount of time in Quebec and learned that no one there actually speaks English... until you decide to start speaking French with the most dreadful accent imaginable (kind of like me being Franco Corelli, eh?) and then *magically 
* they suddenly become "bilingual" and can actually speak English after all... That trick works great in Montreal - less so in Quebec City where they actually may not speak English for reasons known only to themselves...

Another interesting fact - despite officially being a "bilingual" country no one in Canada west of Ottawa can actually speak a word of French however much we may lie through out teeth to the contrary... and no one in Canada west of Ottawa has any interest in correcting said deficiency...

A second interesting fact - one of the more difficult aspects of learning French is that apparently they have a different word in French for every word that we have in English... Trust me, this can be problematical when attempting to learn a second language...

If say... three-quarters of all French words were actually English I'm fairly certain that after years of dedicated practice I would eventually be fluent enough to say "Je ne parle pas français" in Standard French and "Je ne parle pas québécois" when the old "speak French with the most dreadful accent imaginable" trick doesn't work whilst in Quebec City (which is really quite beautiful and strangely romantic by the way and not to be missed when visiting Canada)...

I actually proposed to my fiancée in Quebec City which she found rather odd and somewhat puzzling because I had already proposed to her six weeks earlier in Vancouver... but if you ever find yourself in Quebec City you will quickly understand why I did what I did... I'm kind of hoping though that Quebec City's oddly romantic and strangely magical ability to make you want to propose will not affect me once I'm actually married as that can be somewhat problematical as you might imagine...


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

davidglasgow said:


> For me, I would love one one of those Decca studio recordings in great sound with a cast mixing veterans with future stars in the smaller parts. If it was made in the late 1960s/early 1970s when the technology was great and these singers were on form that would be just fine  lol
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano	Huguette Tourangeau
> 
> ...


Very nice casting - my compliments... The premise of the thread was that every singer would be at their peak and so you didn't need to concern yourself with their being "on form"...

And I have to give you credit :tiphat: for choosing Luciano Pavarotti for the role of Don José... I was going to do that myself but I would rather be popular than pedestrian and so I went with Jonas Kaufmann instead... and Joan Sutherland was another really first-rate choice but diction was the deciding factor in going with Kiri Te Kanawa...

If anyone wants to substitute the word "attractiveness" for "diction" you would not be at all off the mark...Barbara Hannigan came thisclose to playing the role of Frasquita and Claudio Abbado came thisclose to being replaced at the podium by Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla... but that will be our little secret, eh?  Thanks!

And honestly who doesn't see the very personification of "Carmen" in former "Girls Aloud" pop singer Cheryl Cole? I would have chosen her myself instead of Maria Callas but I never would have heard the end of it and so I didn't... I decided to sacrifice "character" for "credibility"...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

davidglasgow said:


> For me, I would love one one of those Decca studio recordings in great sound with a cast mixing veterans with future stars in the smaller parts. If it was made in the late 1960s/early 1970s when the technology was great and these singers were on form that would be just fine  lol
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano	Huguette Tourangeau
> 
> ...


I had forgotten all about Huguette Tourangeau ... I wonder why she never made a bigger mark on the operatic world.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Well since I am late to the party and others have chosen my first thought on Carmen herself (no prize for guessing her name), not to mention a few other cast members, I propose something quite different. It will be a gutsy affair and emotions and passions will reach the heights of Mount Vesuvius itself! 


Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Giulietta Simionato

Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor: Franco Corelli 

Escamillo, Toreador - bass-baritone: Ettore Bastianini

Micaëla, A Village Maiden - soprano: Renata Tebaldi

Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - bass: Nicola Zaccaria 

Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - baritone: Aldo Protti 

Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - soprano: Graziella Sciutti

Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - mezzo-soprano: Fedora Barbiere

Orchestra e Coro del Teatro San Carlo di Napoli

Conductor: Francesco Molinari Pradelli 

Obviously sung in Italian Translation using the Bärenreiter Urtext edition with spoken dialogue and totally uncut using all the normally excised options. If a bit of Neapolitan dialect enters into the fray that would not be a bad thing either. 

Note that some casting of the lesser roles will serve as understudies for the main protagonists. I wanted to cover all the bases just in case.

Edit: Mario Del Monaco would be the understudy for Corelli!


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Okay... here were my first thoughts!

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - soprano: Maria _*Meneghini*_ Callas
Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor: Nicolai Gedda
Escamillo, Toreador - bass-baritone: Jose van Dam 
Micaëla, A Village Maiden - soprano: Joan Sutherland (as on the Decca recording) 
Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - bass: Nicola Zaccaria 
Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - baritone: Ernest Blanc
Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - soprano: Montserrat Caballè 
Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - mezzo-soprano: Marilyn Horne

Conductor: von Karajan 
Vienna State Opeta

Again using the Bärenreiter Urtext edition

Again casting of the lesser roles will serve as understudies for the main protagonists.

Understudy for Jose: Franco Corelli... always a guilty pleasure!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If I had to pick a contemporary Carmen & Don Jose, they probably would be Anna Caterina Antonacci & Jonas Kaufmann. While I haven't seen much of Antonacci's Carmen, her Cassandra in _Les Troyens_ is searing.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Becca said:


> If I had to pick a contemporary Carmen & Don Jose, they probably would be Anna Caterina Antonacci & Jonas Kaufmann. While I haven't seen much of Antonacci's Carmen, her Cassandra in _Les Troyens_ is searing.


This is true, however I much prefer Garanca as Carmen, far more gutsy and earthy.

N.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Rossiniano said:


> Well since I am late to the party and others have chosen my first thought on Carmen herself (no prize for guessing her name), not to mention a few other cast members, I propose something quite different. It will be a gutsy affair and emotions and passions will reach the heights of Mount Vesuvius itself!
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Giulietta Simionato
> 
> ...


Curses! Foiled by Rossiniano again!

I sent him a PM in which I requested that he look over _MY_ choices for the "Carmen" casting... And so I say to Rossiniano ... "I'm thinking Simionato, Corelli, Bastianini, Tebaldi, Zaccaria, Protti, Sciutti, and Barbiere with the Orchestra e Coro del Teatro San Carlo di Napoli with Pradelli at the helm... and hey, let's sing it in Italian because unless I'm greatly mistaken most if not all of my choices appear to be Italian... and hey, we're using the Bärenreiter Urtext edition with spoken dialogue and totally uncut using all the normally excised options and hey, let's have a little Neapolitan dialect enter the fray because Neapolitan ice cream is one of my favourites (chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry - yum!) and hey, I want to have Mario Del Monaco as an understudy for Corelli..."

And there's this really long pause in replying to my PM... finally Rossiniano replies and he says and I quote "yeah... sure... go with _that _casting... it'll really make the forum laugh... and it's not like you ever had any credibility to worry about losing so go for it...and by the way, quit saying "and, hey..." it makes you sound as if you're an illiterate and it's a bit of a trial having to keep reading that..."

When I first submitted my casting list to him he's like "What's up with all these Italians?... Decided to completely abandon creativity, eh?"... and yet he adds a casting list so filled with Italians that you can't swing a cat without hitting one!...(cat swinging is just a metaphor... don't actually do that, eh?)

And so because of the deeply profound respect that I have for someone that I _thought was a fri_end I immediately cave and 86 all of the above... and lo and behold _out of nowhere_ Rossiniano suddenly shows up from The Opera Zone with a line-up that looks suspiciously like the exact same one that I tried to run past him but got nothing for my efforts in return other than mockery and ridicule...

I reckon the moral of the story is twofold... wait... make that threefold...

a.) don't run anything past Rossiniano before actually posting it first - better yet, copyright it before posting....

and

b.) when casting opera apparently there's no such thing as having too many Italians...

and

c.) The phrase "you can't swing a cat without hitting (fill in the blank) is a metaphor... not something that you should actually do... trust me... don't ask...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The Conte said:


> This is true, however I much prefer Garanca as Carmen, far more gutsy and earthy.
> 
> N.


I had thought about Garanca, who I do like, but some of her characterization is a bit undeveloped.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

The Conte said:


> This is true, however I much prefer Garanca as Carmen, far more gutsy and earthy.
> 
> N.


Really excellent choice, my compliments... Elīna Garanča is one of my favourites and her killer version of the flower duet with Anna Netrebko just slays me every time...and oh yeah... I really like her diction...Netrebko's too... first-rate diction... top-class diction...


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Becca said:


> I had forgotten all about Huguette Tourangeau ... I wonder why she never made a bigger mark on the operatic world.


I thought she was great and she covered some interesting repertoire with Joan Sutherland including Lakme, Norma, Tales of Hoffmann and especially Maria Stuarda. I thought she was brill in Messiah as well with that gorgeous timbre.

There was a documentary called "Carmen: The dream and the destiny" about Regine Resnik producing Carmen in 1973 which includes great footage of Tourangeau and Placido Domingo with good sound

Link:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

P.S. NaaW ... Tourangeau is Québécois


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## RES (Oct 30, 2014)

rossiniano said:


> okay... Here were my first thoughts!
> 
> Carmen, a gypsy girl - soprano: Maria _*MENEGHINI*_ Callas...


Different from Maria Callas, indeed. Thank you!!!!!!


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Curses! Foiled by Rossiniano again!
> 
> I sent him a PM in which I requested that he look over _MY_ choices for the "Carmen" casting... And so I say to Rossiniano ... "I'm thinking Simionato, Corelli, Bastianini, Tebaldi, Zaccaria, Protti, Sciutti, and Barbiere with the Orchestra e Coro del Teatro San Carlo di Napoli with Pradelli at the helm... and hey, let's sing it in Italian because unless I'm greatly mistaken most if not all of my choices appear to be Italian... and hey, we're using the Bärenreiter Urtext edition with spoken dialogue and totally uncut using all the normally excised options and hey, let's have a little Neapolitan dialect enter the fray because Neapolitan ice cream is one of my favourites (chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry - yum!) and hey, I want to have Mario Del Monaco as an understudy for Corelli..."
> 
> ...


I must maintain my reputation here. Please DO NOT believe any of what the poor boy has written. I was indeed the genius behind the totally Italian _Carmen_. MR NUDGE obviously is still hurting badly from his injury. I know that he is on some pretty powerful pain medications and as such has been totally hallucinating for the last few days. To add insult to injury I understand that he has also been singing the Queen of the Night's Aria (Yes the one from Act Two that causes dogs and all sorts of animals to act strangely when they hear it) in between his doses of pain killers.

So bottom line: Forgive the poor fellow for he knows not what he is doing! Not that he knows what he's doing on a normal day, but you must understand the given his condition things are much worse than what usually would be the case.

I apologize to the moderators for having to respond in such a manner, but a guy has to do what a guy has to do in order to defend his honor. I thank you for the opportunity.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Rossiniano said:


> Well since I am late to the party and others have chosen my first thought on Carmen herself (no prize for guessing her name), not to mention a few other cast members, I propose something quite different. It will be a gutsy affair and emotions and passions will reach the heights of Mount Vesuvius itself!
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Giulietta Simionato
> 
> ...


I'll admit this sounds tempting but I think I'd still prefer to get the train up to Milan for my dream cast and hear a *really* gutsy verismo performance  haha!!

Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Pia Tassinari

Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor: Giuseppe di Stefano

Escamillo, Toreador - bass-baritone: Tito Gobbi

Micaëla, A Village Maiden - soprano: Maria Meneghini Callas

Zuniga, Lieutenant of Dragoons - bass: Boris Christoff

Moralès, Corporal of Dragoons - baritone: Gino Bechi

Frasquita, Companion of Carmen - soprano: Magda Olivero

Mercédès, Companion of Carmen - mezzo-soprano: Ebe Stignani

Orchestra e Coro del Teatro alla Scala

Visconti produces
Conductor: Victor de Sabata


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## RES (Oct 30, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Mangled French is one of my bugbears. Corelli is one of the worst offenders, but there are others. Christoff's Mephistopheles in Gounod's *Faust* all but ruins an excellent set, but then at least we have De Los Angeles and Gedda in the main roles, and a host of French or French speaking singers in the others. I'd love to know what language Corelli and Sutherland are singing in Bonynge's version. It bears very little resemblance to French.


Yeah, Christoff's French is bizarre. But he's the only Mephisto I can listen to. If his Bulgarian-accented French is mangled (and it is!), his diction is magnificent. And, after all, how much perfect French would have been spoken in Hell, anyway? He's just visiting.  But he is, by far, the scariest Mephisto ever, not with histrionics, but by using the music and the supernatural, not entirely successful human-mask aspect of the character as cues. If Christopher Lee acted this part, it would look the way Christoff sounds (except for the non-French).

No excuse for the hilarious Bonynge language-free FAUST. This is really off-topic of CARMEN already so what the heck? In the Decca Bonynge set, the last six bars are deleted because Bonynge read that Gounod didn't write them and Delibes added them. No other version makes this deletion, including the super-scholarly one (Hadley-Gasdia-Ramey/Rizzi) based on the Oeser reconstruction. What's with that? Anyone?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Rossiniano said:


> Okay... here were my first thoughts!
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - soprano: Maria _*Meneghini*_ Callas
> Don José, Corporal of Dragoons - tenor: Nicolai Gedda
> ...


Your Italian version sounds like some sort of horror story for me, but each to his own :devil:

As for the above cast, I take your point about it being Maria *Meneghini* Callas, but I'd still want it to be late 1950s rather than early 1950s. It being a mezzo role, it doesn't tax her unduly even in 1964, so maybe 1959 - the same year she made her second recording of *La Gioconda*.

I do like Gedda's Don Jose, but I'd be very interested to see what Callas and Vickers might achieve together. I think they'd have created some electricity.

I still prefer Guiot's Micaela to all the more famous ones I've heard, but I do think De Los Angeles (Becca's suggestion) would have been interesting.

Funnily enough, I also considered Horne for Mercedes, but decided that Berganza's lighter sound would fit in better with my ensemble, particularly with Mesple as Frasquita. I think Caballe as Frasquita might be over-egging the pudding too.

Then there is Karajan, whose three collaborations with Callas (*Lucia di Lammermoor*, *Madama Butterfly* and *Il Trovatore*) are amongst the best work either of them did. It's just that I don't much like his conducting on either of his recordings of *Carmen*, finding it too ponderous and Germanic, so I'll stick with Beecham, whose conducting has an elegance and wit that somehow escapes Karajan.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

davidglasgow said:


> I'll admit this sounds tempting but I think I'd still prefer to get the train up to Milan for my dream cast and hear a *really* gutsy verismo performance  haha!!
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Pia Tassinari
> 
> ...


Good luck with getting Callas to take the part of seconda donna. :lol:


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

GregMitchell said:


> Good luck with getting Callas to take the part of seconda donna. :lol:


Well just wait until we get to discussing our dream casting for _Norma_. I have a scenario where Caballé and Callas alternate the roles of Norma and Adalgisa. My plan to get Callas to agree to the seconda donna scenario is to keep reminding Callas that Caballé will probably cancel anyway. Of course when she does not cancel, I will use the "we don't have an understudy" excuse as in Rome in 1958. I know it will risk a lawsuit, and she might "walkout", but heck at times one needs to live dangerously.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

davidglasgow said:


> I'll admit this sounds tempting but I think I'd still prefer to get the train up to Milan for my dream cast and hear a *really* gutsy verismo performance  haha!!
> 
> Carmen, A Gypsy Girl - mezzo-soprano: Pia Tassinari
> 
> ...


One of the funniest posts I've ever seen. A weird cast, in which minor characters would upstage major ones. Callas as Micaela? Jose would have a nervous breakdown (or, given that it's di Stefano, run back home to Mother. Sorry, Pia.)


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> One of the funniest posts I've ever seen. A weird cast, in which minor characters would upstage major ones. Callas as Micaela? Jose would have a nervous breakdown (or, given that it's di Stefano, run back home to Mother. Sorry, Pia.)


It's true that pre-diet Callas would not run away from the gunshot in Act Three - she would storm them like a Medal of Honor recipient :lol:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> How we all differ.
> 
> Not a performance I'd be rushing to I'm afraid. Maybe for Moffo and Warren.


Even without seeing her movie star looks, Rise Stevens, who was THE Carmen in the post war era at the Met, sounding ravishing as Carmen. Very sexy.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Even without seeing her movie star looks, Rise Stevens, who was THE Carmen in the post war era at the Met, sounding ravishing as Carmen. Very sexy.


Admittedly very attractive, but I find her singing of the role a tad conventional.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> P.S. NaaW ... Tourangeau is Québécois


Oddly enough so were the two French-Canadian girls that I was dating...

When I would mention one of their names my family would reply "Is she the crazy one or the scary one?"... which really didn't clarify anything and so I would ask them to be more specific and the response was "is she the one who pulled out the switchblade during dinner at The Keg or the one who cut up all your ties and the sleeves of your dinner jacket and then stole your car?" And I would reply (depending on which one I was referring to)... Pierrette was the one with the switchblade and Veronique was the scissor-happy car thief...

If I can impart any wisdom at all to the collective forum at large it would be this - French-Canadian women are breathtakingly beautiful and make for fun dates but try to break it off before it gets serious, eh? - Your ties and your dinner jacket and even your car will thank you...

Oh... and try not to get on their nerves... when they're irritated it's kind of like being yelled at nonstop _for hours at a time_ by a knife-wielding car-thieving French-speaking pint-sized vintage Ethel Merman at her "Annie Get Your Gun" peak... which trust me... is *loud
*... You may not believe this - it's almost too incredible - but I can be amazingly irritating at times...


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Rossiniano said:


> ... has been totally hallucinating for the last few days.


Actually that _would_ explain the content of most of my posts... kind of difficult to mount a vigourous defense on that one...



Rossiniano said:


> To add insult to injury I understand that he has also been singing the Queen of the Night's Aria...


Like somehow it's my fault that I do killer Karaoke version of "Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen" which slays 'em every time...



Rossiniano said:


> So bottom line: Forgive the poor fellow for he knows not what he is doing! Not that he knows what he's doing on a normal day...


Talking to my mom again, eh?... again kind of difficult to mount a vigourous defense on that one too...

That Rossiniano sure is tougher than he looks in the photo of himself which he uses as his avatar... Lesson learned, my friend, lesson learned...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Seriously who has more operatic credibility on this forum - Rossiniano or me?... Don't answer I'm only being rhetorical...


I won't answer, I will just check with your mom or S.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

RES said:


> And, after all, how much perfect French would have been spoken in Hell, anyway?


As someone who has actually dated knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian women I can safely say - "A hell of a lot more than you would think!"... assuming of course that we're willing to extend the definition of "perfect French" to that version of the language which is spoken in Quebec... which is kind of debatable, eh?


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Rossiniano said:


> Well just wait until we get to discussing our dream casting for _Norma_. I have a scenario where Caballé and Callas alternate the roles of Norma and Adalgisa. My plan to get Callas to agree to the seconda donna scenario is to keep reminding Callas that Caballé will probably cancel anyway. Of course when she does not cancel, I will use the "we don't have an understudy" excuse as in Rome in 1958. I know it will risk a lawsuit, and she might "walkout", but heck at times one needs to live dangerously.


:lol: Really first rate response - my compliments! I'm kind of hoping that this completely insincere compliment will once again restore me to your good graces....

I'm going to use this line the next time that I get into a gunfight on the opera forum - "I know Rossiniano... and you sir/or madam are no Rossiniano!"... Pretty cool, eh? Yeah... I thought so too...

I wonder if the Wagner threads would be more welcoming to me... Worth a shot, eh?


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2018)

Becca said:


> I won't answer, I will just check with your mom or S.


I actually cut that "Seriously who has more operatic credibility on this forum - Rossiniano or me?... Don't answer I'm only being rhetorical..." line from my post because I feared that I was becoming too irritating again... thank you so very much, Becca...:lol:

The last refuge that I have left are the Wagner threads... 

Bet they can't wait to see my cheerful high-spirited bright yellow winking avatar there, eh?

Although my cracked rib is actually getting much better thank you all for asking... and so I'm afraid that my time at the Wagner threads may be of limited duration... so I'll try to really let it rip while I'm still here!

Wagner threads, nous voilà !


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> I wonder if the Wagner threads would be more welcoming to me... Worth a shot, eh?


A number of contributors to the Wagner discussions have been worth shooting.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> As someone who has actually dated knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian women I can safely say - "A hell of a lot more than you would think!"... assuming of course that we're willing to extend the definition of "perfect French" to that version of the language which is spoken in Quebec... which is kind of debatable, eh?


Reminds me of the time I was in a restaurant and the folks at the next table were speaking in some strange foreign tongue. Since it was a very causal place and nobody at our table had a clue regarding what the language was I asked what language they were speaking. We were all totally taken aback when they responded "French"! They were visiting from Canada. Could have fooled me and every one else there as well!

Of course I can relate as the same can be said about the Italian dialect I heard growing up as a child. That explains why with the dialect and operatic Italian I often express myself in a strange manner when attempting to speak in Italian.



Nudge and a Wink said:


> :lol: Really first rate response - my compliments! I'm kind of hoping that this completely insincere compliment will once again restore me to your good graces....
> 
> I'm going to use this line the next time that I get into a gunfight on the opera forum - "I know Rossiniano... and you sir/or madam are no Rossiniano!"... Pretty cool, eh? Yeah... I thought so too...
> 
> I wonder if the Wagner threads would be more welcoming to me... Worth a shot, eh?


Totaly restored! However, knowing that you like to live dangerously I am guessing that you will be willing to "take a shot" over there indeed! Was nice knowing you... but, they have this thing called a tarnhelm over there. Perhaps that might help...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Although my cracked rib is actually getting much better thank you all for asking... and so I'm afraid that my time at the Wagner threads may be of limited duration... so I'll try to really let it rip while I'm still here!
> [/SIZE]


So it's back to braving it out with the 15y/o French Canadian hockey players who don't understand 'non-contact'? I'm not sure if that is brave or foolhardy.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Wagner threads, nous voilà !


If you really want to live dangerously, try the 4'33" threads. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> Good luck with getting Callas to take the part of seconda donna. :lol:


David's choice was based on the original parameters of the thread which stated -

"Every singer is at the absolute peak of their career... they are healthy, happy, know all of their lines, and show up on time for rehearsals... no one cries in their dressing room and refuses to come out...

Every singer is willing to check their ego at the stage door and *will accept a secondary role with alacrity*...There are neither tempers nor tantrums... There are neither feuds nor rivalries..."

So technically with this scenario in mind Callas would have said "no problem... just tell me where and when to show up and I'll be there..."... I mean... yeah she may have said it through clenched teeth but she did agree to check her ego at the door... We just have to hope that her ego didn't get tired of waiting and then decided to follow her into the theater...


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Becca said:


> If you really want to live dangerously, try the 4'33" threads. :tiphat:


Not only do I like to live dangerously I also like to live foolishly so my plan is to wander around the Wagner threads and start asking questions like "Why isn't anyone talking about what happened to his wife Natalie Wood?" or "What was Christopher Walken doing on the yacht and was he really having an affair with Natalie and/or Robert?" or "Who on this forum actually believes Robert Wagner's theory that Natalie Wood "heard the dinghy banging against the side and got up to retrieve it and then she slipped on the swim step on the stern, hit the step on the way down, and was either stunned or knocked unconscious and rolled into the water. The loose dinghy floated away."

Yep... those sure sound like questions that need answers to me... and I will be the dangerous fool who will be asking them on the Wagner threads...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> ...and I will be the dangerous fool who will be asking them on the Wagner threads...


Is your middle name 'Parsifal'?


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Becca said:


> Is your middle name 'Parsifal'?


It would be if I was a French-Canadian but as I am in fact an English-Canadian my middle name and the opera would actually be written "Percival"... Always glad to be the light that illuminates you with wisdom and knowledge...


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Becca said:


> Is your middle name 'Parsifal'?


That's another thing that I plan to do when I wander into the Wagner threads... Anglicize all of the German names... Speaking German is what you have to do when you _lose the war not win it_... Like Siegfried would be "Steve" and Wotan would be "Wally" and Donner would be "Donny" and Gunther would be "Gary" and Hagen would be "Hank"... Pretty cool, eh?

Solved one problem... now moving on to the others..


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> That's another thing that I plan to do when I wander into the Wagner threads... Anglicize all of the German names... Speaking German is what you have to do when you _lose the war not win it_... Like Siegfried would be "Steve" and Wotan would be "Wally" and Donner would be "Donny" and Gunther would be "Gary" and Hagen would be "Hank"... Pretty cool, eh?
> 
> Solved one problem... now moving on to the others..


Frank Castorf would love you :lol:


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Becca said:


> Frank Castorf would love you :lol:


As a public service to the forum I would like to explain Becca's incomparably obscure but incredibly humourous when you take the time to look it up on Wikipedia reference (which you have to do almost every single time she posts something - or at least I do... and you do too, whichever liar is currently reading this...) -

"In 2013, Frank Castorf directed a "deliberately incoherent" production of the Ring Cycle at the Bayreuth Wagner Festival, which was booed by the audience...

Honestly when is anything written by Wagner anything other than "deliberately incoherent"?... I'll have to use that line in the Wagner threads - it's a real corker!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> A number of contributors to the Wagner discussions have been worth shooting.


Speak for yourslf! :lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Speak for yourslf! :lol:


Did I see a hand go up?


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Becca said:


> If I had to pick a contemporary Carmen & Don Jose, they probably would be Anna Caterina Antonacci & Jonas Kaufmann. While I haven't seen much of Antonacci's Carmen, her Cassandra in _Les Troyens_ is searing.


Her Carmen in the DVD from Covent Garden is really good. With Kauffmann at his dangerous best too. It is superbly conducted by Pappano. You won't get a better pairing of actual stage performers. You can dream about Callas, de lid Angeles, etc, but these never actually performed the role on stage. Both seem lacking to me on their recordings - de Los Angeles the sexual danger and Callas the actual beauty of voice needed (by that stage in her career).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Star said:


> Her Carmen in the DVD from Covent Garden is really good. With Kauffmann at his dangerous best too. It is superbly conducted by Pappano. You won't get a better pairing of actual stage performers. You can dream about Callas, de lid Angeles, etc, but these never actually performed the role on stage. Both seem lacking to me on their recordings - de Los Angeles the sexual danger and Callas the actual beauty of voice needed (by that stage in her career).


But the whole premise of the thread is that all singers are in prime vocal health.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

I've always loved Jussi Bjorling's recording of the Flower Song.

Link: 




He did not perform the role complete on stage: sets hearts aflutter to have a dream cast headed by a Callas / Bjorling pairing


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Rossiniano said:


> Reminds me of the time I was in a restaurant and the folks at the next table were speaking in some strange foreign tongue. Since it was a very causal place and nobody at our table had a clue regarding what the language was I asked what language they were speaking. We were all totally taken aback when they responded "French"! They were visiting from Canada. Could have fooled me and every one else there as well!
> 
> Of course I can relate as the same can be said about the Italian dialect I heard growing up as a child. That explains why with the dialect and operatic Italian I often express myself in a strange manner when attempting to speak in Italian.
> 
> Totaly restored! However, knowing that you like to live dangerously I am guessing that you will be willing to "take a shot" over there indeed! Was nice knowing you... but, they have this thing called a tarnhelm over there. Perhaps that might help...


If you want real incoherence try listening to a group of Glaswegians in their home environment, (a pub), talking at pace about anything. Good luck!


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> But the whole premise of the thread is that all singers are in prime vocal health.


Along with being healthy and happy... That last quality was specifically intended for those who wanted to build their cast around Maria Callas...

Otherwise being in prime vocal health may have been completely offset by her profound and unfortunate unhappiness...

It is beyond comprehension to think of what and who she might have been if able to be healthy and happy when in prime vocal health... and someone had enough sense to actually record her properly...

Probably would be far better known today rather than languishing in obscurity, eh?


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Random thoughts on the nature of operatic Ultimate "Dream Teams"... written on the most current relevant thread...

What a superb thread - my compliments to everyone who participated... You had a profound effect on me and my perception and comprehension of opera...

I want all of you to know that I read your selections, read about your choices on Wikipedia, and played samples on youtube when available for literally every chosen selection... I received a really first-rate education... an introductory education...but a really first-rate one nonetheless...

The most striking aspect of the selections was the care that was taken to surround your chosen Carmen with peers who would inspire your lead and who would not be intimidated by her presence...

In the case of the Maria Callas-led Carmen castings I was also very aware of the effort made by everyone to surround her with performers whose acting abilities matched their vocal skills... I would imagine that Callas would have been thrilled and inspired and overjoyed with unbridled happiness to find herself surrounded with such stellar cast mates who would listen and respond to her as fellow actors... Everyone would have brought out the best in everyone... and it is profoundly sad that this thread could only suggest what might have been...

As mentioned... whilst reading the casting lists I had pages open to Wikipedia and youtube... I would highly recommend that others do so because I was just floored at how well the voices would have blended together - it would have been a true company production rather than a star vehicle... The unified timbre was extraordinary and I extend my deep and sincere admiration for the quality of the choices that each of you made...

I'm also quite proud of the fact that I was relatively well-behaved during the course of the thread's progress except for one or two dozen exceptions...

I'm also quite proud of the fact that I had enough self-discipline... enough self-control... to resist the temptation to add a last parameter to the original conditions... It took every ounce of strength that I had within me to not insist that leprechauns be added to the cast list... and that you needed to find something for them to sing... but I did in fact have the self-discipline and the self-control to not add leprechauns to our production of "Carmen" and for that I am profoundly grateful to myself... No one shall know how precariously close this production came to having leprechauns sing arias for reasons known to no one and I shall keep this to myself and no one will ever be the wiser...

I would also like to publically berate the poster who insisted on incessantly inserting wholly gratuitous references to his knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian girlfriends but the ToS prevents me from naming him in public and so he can safely hide behind his anonymity even though he actually had kind of a really good point in warning everyone about just how dangerous it can be to date French-Canadian girls who are either scary, crazy, or more often than not some combination of both...

I would also reckon that the incessant references to knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian girlfriends was probably the fault of everyone on the thread who kept mentioning Franco Corelli because the poster that I cannot publicly berate because of the ToS would probably not have known that Corelli has issues with speaking French or what approximates his version of what he would consider "French" but no one else does... and so everyone who kept harping on Corelli have no one to blame but themselves for the incessant knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian girlfriend references... which are actually true and not in any way embellished...

Who would have been willing to bet their own money that Schigolch would have introduced a ferret into the thread before me?

Rossiniano is a lot tougher and scarier than he looks on the photograph of himself that he uses as an avatar... it's best not to tangle with him... trust me.. don't ask...

Should she wish to accept the responsibility Becca shall be the final arbiter of all Ultimate Dream Team productions... If she doesn't want the position finding her replacement is her problem not mine... She's another one not to tangle with... trust me... don't ask...

The Ultimate Dream Team thread was and can continue to be fun - informative high-spirited discourse coupled with sharp yet good-natured bantering... Everyone who took part should be proud of themselves... and to everyone who did not take part... you should... you're missing out on one of the best parts of being a member of a community of like-minded souls - the companionship of those who love what you do with an intensity that matches yours...

Continue the Ultimate Dream Team until you've recast every opera written... and then start all over again except this time don't use any of your previous choices...

A good rule of thumb to follow when casting operatic productions is that attractiveness always trumps talent...always... trust me on this one, eh?... Opera is both a visual as well as an aural art form and eye-candy makes for great box office...

The next Ultimate Dream Team castings should be -

The Ultimate Dream Team production of "Das Rheingold"

The Ultimate Dream Team production of "Die Walküre"

The Ultimate Dream Team production of "Siegfried"

and finally... The Ultimate Dream Team production of "Gotterdammerung"...

Use the conditions template established on the first pages of both the "Carmen" and "Les Troyens" threads...

Think about adding an additional condition in which you need to make at least one significant cast change as you progress through the cycle...

If you can find a way to work in leprechauns into the Ring Cycle do so... I would find that to be hilarious and now that my cracked rib is healing I can once again laugh without crying...

Finally... I never dreamed that my legacy would be helping in the creation of the Ultimate Dream Team production thread... I thought for sure that I was destined to be nothing more than fondly thought of as that Canadian guy who was completely nuts...

Perhaps it can be both, eh?

p.s. In case anyone is wondering about the progress that I'm making as I work my way through the 70 disc Maria Callas Remastered Complete Studio Recordings box set I'm extraordinarily proud to announce that after 9 weeks of careful and thoughtful listening I'm nearly but not quite halfway through the overture of disc 1...


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

GregMitchell said:


> But the whole premise of the thread is that all singers are in prime vocal health.


Doesn't work as she never sang it in prime vocal health. We are talkng about performing the opera and Callas never performed it on stage. We might have liked to have seen her but the fact is it never happened so she is a mm starter.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

From the start of the OP...



> Every operatic singer who has ever sung an operatic note is eligible for casting...whether or not they ever actually appeared in this production is completely irrelevant...


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Star said:


> Doesn't work as she never sang it in prime vocal health. We are talkng about performing the opera and Callas never performed it on stage. We might have liked to have seen her but the fact is it never happened so she is a mm starter.


Not so fast... you need to re-read the original conditions that I listed... It doesn't matter whether someone did or did not sing something... The idea behind the creation of the thread and all of the other "Ultimate Dream Team" productions which will follow is that we live in an idealized operatic world in which -

"Every operatic singer who has ever sung an operatic note is eligible for casting...whether or not they ever actually appeared in this production is completely irrelevant...

Every singer is at the absolute peak of their career... they are healthy, happy, know all of their lines, and show up on time for rehearsals... no one cries in their dressing room and refuses to come out...

Every singer is willing to check their ego at the stage door and will accept a secondary role with alacrity...There are neither tempers nor tantrums... There are neither feuds nor rivalries..."

No offense, but my thread my rules, eh?

As a side note if anyone is wondering why I'm using a font size that is larger than everyone else's the not so serious answer is - "To draw attention to myself" and the serious answer is - "To draw attention to myself"... Glad to have cleared up that little mystery...Cheers! :tiphat:


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Becca said:


> From the start of the OP...


Honestly Becca! - Must you beat me every single time? Please don't answer that as I fear I may have just set myself up for some kind of "well-deserved beating" crack that I just know you won't be able to resist making...


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Not so fast... you need to re-read the original conditions that I listed... It doesn't matter whether someone did or did not sing something... The idea behind the creation of the thread and all of the other "Ultimate Dream Team" productions which will follow is that we live in an idealized operatic world in which -
> 
> "Every operatic singer who has ever sung an operatic note is eligible for casting...whether or not they ever actually appeared in this production is completely irrelevant...
> 
> ...


Of course it matters whether someone actually acted it on stage. Otherwise how do you know whether they would even want to do it. Dallas never acted Darmen do we can take it that she never wanted to perform it n stage. That alng with others who never actually did it. You can dream on but if the singer never wanted to do it then it would never happen.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Star said:


> Of course it matters whether someone actually acted it on stage. Otherwise how do you know whether they would even want to do it. Dallas never acted Darmen do we can take it that she never wanted to perform it n stage. That alng with others who never actually did it. You can dream on but if the singer never wanted to do it then it would never happen.


Again... no offense... but again it doesn't matter... We created an imaginary idealized operatic world in which we're the ones who decide who does what and when they do it...

Re-read the conditions... if we were speaking of reality the conditions stated are too ludicrous for words but we're not - this is a world which we have created - an idealized imaginary world - which allow us to play "what if and if only"... We are all just dreaming out loud, Star, just dreaming out loud...

Which opera singers ever knew all of their lines and were never late for rehearsal and didn't cry in their dressing room and refuse to come out and were willing to check their egos at the stage door and accept a secondary role with alacrity and didn't have a temper and never threw a tantrum and had neither feuds nor rivalries?


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> Again... no offense... but again it doesn't matter... We created an imaginary idealized operatic world in which we're the ones who decide who does what and when they do it...
> 
> Re-read the conditions... if we were speaking of reality the conditions stated are too ludicrous for words but we're not - this is a world which we have created - an idealized imaginary world - which allow us to play "what if and if only"... We are all just dreaming out loud, Star, just dreaming out loud...
> 
> Which opera singers ever knew all of their lines and were never late for rehearsal and didn't cry in their dressing room and refuse to come out and were willing to check their egos at the stage door and accept a secondary role with alacrity and didn't have a temper and never threw a tantrum and had neither feuds nor rivalries?


You can dream on but if someone has never acted the role on stage how can you include them in an 'idealised' cast. Unless you follow the modern practice of having a hologram of (eg) Callas on stage.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Star said:


> You can dream on but if someone has never acted the role on stage how can you include them in an 'idealised' cast. Unless you follow the modern practice of having a hologram of (eg) Callas on stage.


 I really don't want you to think that this is personal in any way but this thread was really important to me for too many reasons to elaborate upon but it allowed all of us to create something that we all felt was of value... a way to rectify the wrongs of a world that was just too sad for words...

So if we have say... a healthy and happy Maria Callas who is at the top of her form and surrounded with peers who respected her but were not intimidated by her and who could more than hold their own when it comes to both singing and acting then tell me _exactly_ which role this idealized Maria Callas would not be capable of performing...

And so yeah... I will dream on and so will all of the others who created a cast for their productions... that was pretty much the whole point of the thread... to just dream on... and I hope that everyone will continue to do so...


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Star said:


> You can dream on but if someone has never acted the role on stage how can you include them in an 'idealised' cast. Unless you follow the modern practice of having a hologram of (eg) Callas on stage.


Why would you think 'idealised' requires justified conclusions which are time-bound, realistic, meritocratic and practicable? Not very *dream*-like, surely?

My suggestions alone must be a culture shock since they are imaginary, ironic, perhaps unjustified, usually impossible and, going by feedback, frequently intolerable :lol:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Star said:


> Of course it matters whether someone actually acted it on stage. Otherwise how do you know whether they would even want to do it. Dallas never acted Darmen do we can take it that she never wanted to perform it n stage. That alng with others who never actually did it. You can dream on but if the singer never wanted to do it then it would never happen.


How literal you are! Don't you ever feel the need to escape into fantasy? Personally, I've always thought reality is a condition we should all strive to rise above.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> No offense, but my thread my rules, eh?


Absolutely! You started the thread. You make the rules.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Carmen: Maria Callas
everyone else: don't care


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> Personally, I've always thought reality is a condition we should all strive to rise above.


You may not feel that way when I insist for reasons that not even I know of that everyone include aria-singing leprechauns when casting the Ultimate Dream Team Wagner Ring Cycle that will be coming up...and if I'm feeling particularly unstable if not outright erratic I may also insist that everyone cast Enrico Caruso in the role of Siegfried as a way to make amends for everyone giving him a pass in "Carmen"...

You may want to think twice about encouraging someone whose grip on reality can be considered "tenuous" at best, my friend...


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2018)

davidglasgow said:


> My suggestions alone must be a culture shock since they are imaginary, ironic, perhaps unjustified, usually impossible and, going by feedback, frequently intolerable :lol:


As you know David I am and have been willing to defend you to the death... well... maybe not quite "to the death" - let's not get carried away, eh? But I am and have been willing to defend you the point were it really kind of stings and makes your eyes water but... as much as I would like to mount a vigorous and impassioned defense of your position I have to admit... that I've got nothin' ... I'm drawing a complete blank... "imaginary", "ironic", "unjustified", "impossible" - no problem - I'm willing and able to man the barricades on those...

But as soon as I get to "frequently intolerable"... honestly... I've got nothin' ... I'm drawing a complete blank.... I show up at the barricades ready to "man" them and I start thinking... "They really were intolerable... what am I doing here when I could be home trying to figure out which arias the leprechauns are going to sing in the Ultimate Dream Team Wagner Ring Cycle..."

I love "O mio babbino caro" and "Casta diva" because even _I_ sound great when singing them while showering but even I'm having trouble justifying exactly why the leprechauns would choose those songs to sing and would it be appropriate to have them do so as Brünnhilde commits suicide on Siegfried's funeral pyre...

Then I thought perhaps the leprechauns could save Hagen from drowning but to be quite honest I'm not entirely certain just how well leprechauns can swim... but I do want to make it very clear to everyone that at the end even though the gods and Valhalla are destroyed - the leprechauns are not to be harmed under any circumstances whatsoever because they are symbols of good luck (I think... I mean honestly just what the hell do I know about leprechauns other than that apparently they can really carry a tune, eh?) and if I had had a leprechaun on the ice with me that day I probably would not have had my rib cracked by a 14 year old French-Canadian _girl_ who _doesn't speak a word of English_ make me look like a complete fool _when I say in English _"This is a no-contact drill"...

If I had actually had the presence of mind to have a genuine card-carrying leprechaun (that's another thing that I need to research - do leprechauns actually carry cards?) accompany me on the ice that day I'm fairly certain that he would have helpfully suggested that I try saying "This is a no-contact drill" in _French_... Of course the entire scenario becomes completely ridiculous if not outright outlandish if the leprechaun can't actually speak French himself...

If anyone is still reading this thread and wondering why my grasp on reality is even more tenuous than usual feel free to blame our friend Greg Mitchell who personally encouraged me to consider "reality as a condition we should all strive to rise above"... This is what you sound like when you "strive to rise above reality"... If you do not wish to sound like this I would strongly suggest that you take a pass on "striving to rise above reality" and any other non-operatic advice that our friend Greg may have to offer...


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2018)

As long as we're on the subject of _Carmen_ and this is my thread and no one is bothering to read it anymore I thought that this might be the ideal time to update everyone on my attempts to hit the high B of "Vincero!" when singing "_Nessun Dorma_" in the shower... which I have been doing every single morning for the last nine months despite being on the receiving end of less-than-polite requests that I stop doing so every single morning for the last nine months...

I'm a real corker when it comes to singing "_Nessun Dorma_" in the shower - the master bath has this amazing echo that makes my tenor voice resonate with so much unbridled power that many of you would probably cast me in your Ultimate Dream Team productions if you were able to do so which you're not because of previous commitments... and while Maria Callas may be willing to check her ego at the stage door - I'm not Maria Callas and so my ego walks right into the theater with me and we enter our dressing room and start crying and won't come out even if you beg us to...

I really let it rip... I mean I do not hold back at all - really really really let it just rip... I always envision myself at La Scala... except I probably wouldn't be taking a shower unless the artistic director decided to stage "Turandot" to take place in someone's master bath... but I digress...

I start out - "_Dilegua, o notte!... Tramontate, stelle!... Tramontate, stelle!... All'alba vinceró_!"... and I get to the second "_Vinceró_" and as many of you know as a tenor I always like to turn slightly purple on the top note even though I really don't need to because that last "_vinceró!_" is only a high B but I know that if I had an audience they want me to really work that high B and so you have to go a bit purple in the face to make them feel as if they're getting their money's worth... Going purple in the face is relatively easy for me as my face is already beet red due to the heat of the water that I'm showering in...

Let's take a brief pause to explain my "_Nessun Dorma_" shower singing technique, shall we? Thanks!

The technical demands in "_Nessun Dorma_" lie in controlling it's elongated notes... The difficulty is that it sits high and you have to be loud at the same time (personally, I try to go for "_Ethel Merman loud_" but while I'm good I'm not _that_ good)...

If I overblow my woofer it makes it difficult and that's where I rely on my vocal technique so that I don't give too much... And see...the thing is that the aria is about love... I have to have a confidence inside me to sing it because I have just won the princess and thus the aria must sound triumphant (it would sound even more triumphant if I could get "_Ethel Merman loud_" but I don't want to introduce a secondary tangential rant into my primary tangential rant)...

Which brings me back to the final purple-faced "_Vinceró_" with it's high B top note... Just as I'm about to wind up and really let that "_Vinceró_" be heard from one end of West Vancouver to the other...suddenly... the toilet is flushed by the person who has been making a tiresome number of less-than-polite requests that I stop singing "_Nessun Dorma_" every single morning for the last nine months and my high B becomes a top C which would be really impressive if I was actually singing that top C and not screaming it...

I'm not about to name any names because it may violate the ToS but if someone were to guess that the person flushing the toilet while I'm trying to hit that high B is my future wife Miss Siobhan Black formerly of Galway, Ireland and now West Vancouver, British Columbia (which oddly enough is actually in Canada despite the use of "British" as an adjective modifying "Columbia") you would not find me disagreeing... It's unfortunate that the Irish are such an unmusical people because that high B on the last "_Vinceró_" would have been worth paying to hear... but we'll never know, will we?

I probably should have provided everyone with this very important advice about plumbing before I even started writing about "_Nessun Dorma_" - try your very best not to have the type of plumbing in your master bath that cuts off the cold water when the toilet is flushed and you're in the shower trying to hit that purple-faced high B... and there's someone in the house who is both Irish and not exactly overeager when it comes to hearing you sing "Nessun Dorma" every single morning for the last nine months...

The Irish... sigh... Has there ever been a less musical people?... Has there ever been a crueler people so quick to laugh at the misery of others?... But they sure do crank out some fabulous looking babes, eh?

I offer this advice as a public service to one and all...:tiphat:

I sound _exactly_ like this at the 5:34 mark... except I'm younger... thinner... taller...much better looking... and probably a better actor to boot...although to be quite honest I think that he can hold that last high B about 4 or 5 seconds longer than I can...


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^ Hey winkie since you are a bathroom opera singer here is something to shoot for, can 80 yr old still deliver the goods singing nessun dorma? If you are Lauri Volpi (mentor of Franco Corelli) the answer is definitely yes!


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2018)

DarkAngel said:


> ^^^ Hey winkie since you are a bathroom opera singer here is something to shoot for, can 80 yr old still deliver the goods singing nessun dorma? If you are Lauri Volpi (mentor of Franco Corelli) the answer is definitely yes!



DarkAngel my friend thank you for your appearance upon this thread however I must warn you against making any references to Franco Corelli especially in regards to his apparent complete inability to sing or speak in a language that is in any way an approximation of what anyone would consider to be "French"...

The last time someone mentioned "Franco Corelli" and "French" I wrote almost a dozen posts that had nothing to do with "Carmen" and everything to do with dating knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian girls who were either scary, crazy, or some combination of both...

This may come as a complete shock to you but I am a person who has neither the self-discipline nor the self-control to resist a real first-rate tangent... Everyone who reads this thread just shuddered when you mentioned Franco Corelli because they have come to understand just how dangerous it can be to provide me with an opportunity to go off on a tangent...

I really do not want to be distracted again by Franco Corelli or the two knife-wielding car-thieving French-Canadian girls who alternated between being scary and crazy and often succeeded in being both at the same time...

Please do not get me wound up... I am trying to behave myself... and I'm really kind of distracted by choosing which arias that the leprechauns will be singing in the Wagner Ultimate Dream Team Ring Cycle that I'm working on... I'm kind of preoccupied wondering what effect if any providing the leprechauns with machine-guns and hand-grenades may have on the production but I think that it will be either favourable or really hilarious... I'm hoping for some combination of the both...

Best wishes, my friend, and as they say in Italy - "À la prochaine, mon ami!"


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Star said:


> ...Dallas never acted Darmen...


If you want to suggest your own dream cast of an operatic version of the soap Dallas, I suggest you start your own thread. 

N.


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## RES (Oct 30, 2014)

Hello NaaW, Reading your 'Nessun dorma' post reminds me of the following in Woody Allen's 'To Rome with Love' where one subplot is about a guy who is a great tenor but can only sing in the shower.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> Originally Posted by Nudge and a Wink View
> 
> No offence, but my thread my rules, eh?


Right, _you have your own way in exactly everything, and a sunnier and more pleasant creature does not exist._" - right?


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2018)

Pugg said:


> Right, _you have your own way in exactly everything, and a sunnier and more pleasant creature does not exist._" - right?


Right! - For once we agree on something!

And allow me to extend a sincere and grateful "thank you" for referring to me thus "_a sunnier and more pleasant creature does not exist_..." It's a nice counterbalance to the other 2600 members of the forum who head straight for the phrase "_completely nuts_" when referring to me even though as you've mentioned _"a sunnier and more pleasant creature does not exist..."_ Once again - thank you for the unexpected compliment - I was quite taken aback to be quite honest... but I will humbly and graciously accept said compliment in the spirit in which it was offered...

I would also like to thank you for taking the time needed to create, write, and provide said compliment... I know how busy you are writing such profundities as "_Welcome new member_" and "_Enjoy your time here_" and posting literally thousands of intellectually enlightening LP covers in "Current Listening" for our cultural edification... You've taken it upon yourself to do something that no one else has either the inclination or interest in doing and you receive neither the credit nor the acclaim which you so richly deserve... so allow me to personally rectify that situation - :tiphat:

On behalf of almost all of it's members I thank you kind sir for your tireless and selfless devotion to the well-being of the forum... People tend to take what you do for granted which is a tremendous disservice to you as you work ceaselessly for the betterment of the forum and all of it's members past, present, and future...

_This forum is what it is because of people like you_... and your effect upon it should not go without notice or comment ... and so allow me to offer you a rare triple tip of the hat - one which I've never bestowed upon anyone at any time - :tiphat: :tiphat: :tiphat:

Best wishes, my friend, continue to post both fearlessly and endlessly!


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2018)

Here's the best "Carmen" ever performed, IMO. The one and only Carlos Kleiber with Zeffirelli as Director: the quality of the recording isn't good!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Christabel said:


> Here's the best "Carmen" ever performed, IMO. The one and only Carlos Kleiber with Zeffirelli as Director: the quality of the recording isn't good!


On video it's has to compete with Mingenus. but very fine in house recording indeed.


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