# The Lark Ascending's absence from 'The TC Top 200 Recommended Orchestral Works'



## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

I find this fact quite astonishing especially when you consider that the UK's Classic FM's listeners' poll regularly puts this top of their 'Hall of Fame'.

Perhaps the piece isn't so well known outside the UK?

Vaughan Williams wrote The Lark Ascending in 1914 inspired by the George Meredith poem of the same name. He originally arranged it for piano and violin, but following the conclusion of the first world war scored it for orchestra.

London Philharmonic Orchestra version with David Nolan on violin.

Vaughan Williams has two entries in the TC poll:
6. Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
100. Job: A Masque for Dancing

*EDIT: As Art Rock points out in the following post - the piece is classed as a concerto. (It comes in at number 31 in 'The TC Top 50 Recommended String Concerti').*


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

What I remember, it was voted into the list of favourite string instrument concertos, and therefore ineligible for the orchestral works list (for the same reason, regular symphonies are absent in that list).


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> What I remember, it was voted into the list of favourite string instrument concertos, and therefore ineligible for the orchestral works list (for the same reason, regular symphonies are absent in that list).


Oh thanks Art Rock - that's heartening to know. I didn't even stop to consider it as a concerto. Apologies to all.

The TC Top 50 Recommended String Concerti:
31. Vaughan Williams - The Lark Ascending


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## Star (May 27, 2017)

Whatever it is, it is a most beautiful work


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Star said:


> Whatever it is, it is a most beautiful work


It is, yes. The imagery of the piece is so strong for me - I always imagine that after the initial high flight the central episode is more earthly based.

I think, also, that such tone painting makes one forget it's concerto-like arrangement - the violin seemingly 'becoming' a bird.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I might tend to overlook it because it never turns up on a Concert Program , presumably due to it’s brevity


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Triplets said:


> I might tend to overlook it because it never turns up on a Concert Program , presumably due to it's brevity


It would be a shame if brevity were the reason for not programming it (if that, indeed, is the case).


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

A quick Google search for "lark ascending radio 3 in concert" shows it in quite a few concert programmes, here's one showing how to combine some short English pieces into a very nice evening of music:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g55yz

I guess it might be different outside the UK...


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Are some pieces performed less often because of their 'short' duration I wonder?


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

So, what is your favorite interpretation? I've heard good things about Tasmin Little.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Portamento said:


> So, what is your favorite interpretation? I've heard good things about Tasmin Little.


I like all the interpretations I have heard so far including your suggestion. Thanks.

The Janine Jansen is good too.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: One can't please everybody.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_I find this fact quite astonishing especially when you consider that the UK's Classic FM's listeners' poll regularly puts this top of their 'Hall of Fame'. Perhaps the piece isn't so well known outside the UK?_

It's well-known but not especially well considered. Personally I find little of distinction in it. I've neither seen it scheduled nor nor heard it performed in concert in USA. Perhaps it registers more readily with sensibilities in UK or perhaps it has more staying power because it is national music.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I noticed that there are some who are wondering why it is not more frequently performed.

Well one of the community orchestra that I play with, the McLean Symphony, performed the work twice. The problem for us is that one has to rent the parts from Oxford University Press. They are a very difficult publisher to work with and they charge over $500 to rent the parts.

We had to cut back the programming of contemporary works because the cost of renting the parts is so high.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

larold said:


> _I find this fact quite astonishing especially when you consider that the UK's Classic FM's listeners' poll regularly puts this top of their 'Hall of Fame'. Perhaps the piece isn't so well known outside the UK?_
> 
> It's well-known but not especially well considered. Personally I find little of distinction in it. I've never seen nor heard it scheduled nor performed in concert in USA.


Ok, thanks....................


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> I noticed that there are some who are wondering why it is not more frequently performed.
> 
> Well one of the community orchestra that I play with, the McLean Symphony, performed the work twice. The problem for us is that one has to rent the parts from Oxford University Press. They are a very difficult publisher to work with and they charge over $500 to rent the parts.
> 
> We had to cut back the programming of contemporary works because the cost of renting the parts is so high.


So it's not as costly for all modern pieces (i.e. pieces that are still under copyright)?

$500 seems an awful lot.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> I noticed that there are some who are wondering why it is not more frequently performed.
> 
> Well one of the community orchestra that I play with, the McLean Symphony, performed the work twice. The problem for us is that one has to rent the parts from Oxford University Press. They are a very difficult publisher to work with and they charge over $500 to rent the parts.
> 
> We had to cut back the programming of contemporary works because the cost of renting the parts is so high.


So, public domain stuff like Beethoven is zero cost I presume?


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

The Lark hasn't always been popular even in the UK. The first British stereo LP (Hugh Bean/Boult) wasn't issued until 1967.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

After reading these posts, I'm inclined to believe this most beautiful Vaughan Williams work may be better titled "The Lark Descending." Alas ....

This sublime tone poem has proven a staple in my own home concert hall since I was a teenager and first became acquainted with the work. I have never given thought to how it ranks as a concert hall favorite. Perhaps I assumed that this piece was beloved by all and thus a frequent visitor in concert. In any case, I'm happy to have several recordings of the work, a work which may well be my preferred piece of music by the inestimable Ralph Vaughan Williams. If any of you reading this have not yet heard this piece, get to it. Immediately!

Here's a track of my favorite version, featuring Sir Adrian Boult and violinist Hugh Bean.






And though the George Meredith poem which inspired the musical composition may not be as artistically sublime as the Vaughan Williams's score proves, it is still worth a read now and then, and, in its best lines, rivals the music it inspired.

Here read the closing lines (113 - 122):

Wherefore their soul in me, or mine,
Through self-forgetfulness divine,
In them, that song aloft maintains,
To fill the sky and thrill the plains
With showerings drawn from human stores,
As he to silence nearer soars,
Extends the world at wings and dome,
More spacious making more our home,
Till lost on his aërial rings
In light, and then the fancy sings.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

janxharris said:


> So, public domain stuff like Beethoven is zero cost I presume?


Yes. There is a website where one can download the public domain stuff for free.

If you need to rent the music one can get the parts for let's say Beethoven's _Fifth_ from Luck's Music Library for only $95.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

janxharris said:


> So it's not as costly for all modern pieces (i.e. pieces that are still under copyright)?
> 
> $500 seems an awful lot.


We have been down this road before. Several of us have discussed the cost of renting music in other threads. For a copyrighted work $500 is about average. The cheapest I have seen is $300. There have some works where the rental fees are as high as $1000. These fees can really be a burden for community orchestras.

What is frustrating is that many do not believe me and think I am making this up.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> We have been down this road before. Several of us have discussed the cost of renting music in other threads. For a copyrighted work $500 is about average. The cheapest I have seen is $300. There have some works where the rental fees are as high as $1000. These fees can really be a burden for community orchestras.
> 
> What is frustrating is that many do not believe me and think I am making this up.


I feel I should know the answer to this question since I have read many of your posts on this issue, but do people believe you are making up the cost of copyrighted music or you are making up the fact that it can be a burden on community orchestras (or both)?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

SONNET CLV said:


> After reading these posts, I'm inclined to believe this most beautiful Vaughan Williams work may be better titled "The Lark Descending." Alas ....
> 
> This sublime tone poem has proven a staple in my own home concert hall since I was a teenager and first became acquainted with the work. I have never given thought to how it ranks as a concert hall favorite. Perhaps I assumed that this piece was beloved by all and thus a frequent visitor in concert. In any case, I'm happy to have several recordings of the work, a work which may well be my preferred piece of music by the inestimable Ralph Vaughan Williams. If any of you reading this have not yet heard this piece, get to it. Immediately!
> 
> ...


A lovely version - thanks.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> We have been down this road before. Several of us have discussed the cost of renting music in other threads. For a copyrighted work $500 is about average. The cheapest I have seen is $300. There have some works where the rental fees are as high as $1000. These fees can really be a burden for community orchestras.
> 
> What is frustrating is that many do not believe me and think I am making this up.


I believe you 
What period of time does the rental cover?

I know that the publisher and the composer split the income from such income - which is why some composers choose to self-publish.

Regarding music in the public domain - are you saying that some still choose to rent because they aren't on the internet or don't have a printer/time to do the printing?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

*Why is The Lark Ascending so popular?*

Frances Fyfield is joined by former BBC Young Musician of the Year Jennifer Pike, her father Jeremy, head of Composition at Cheetham's school of music in Manchester, and composer David Matthews to examine Ralph Vaughan Williams' British Classic 'The Lark Ascending' and what makes it so enduringly popular.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Possibly Vaughan Williams's finest moment (I haven't heard everything he wrote yet):  Symphony Number 5 - Romanza (third movement).

The whole symphony is superb.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> We have been down this road before. Several of us have discussed the cost of renting music in other threads. For a copyrighted work $500 is about average. The cheapest I have seen is $300. There have some works where the rental fees are as high as $1000. These fees can really be a burden for community orchestras.
> 
> What is frustrating is that many do not believe me and think I am making this up.


You aren't making this up:

Boosey and Hawkes rental quote:

Quote For:	Adams, John: Violin Concerto
Months Hire:1
Performances:1

Orchestral Hire:	£314.10	(445.66 US Dollar)


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Mal said:


> A quick Google search for "lark ascending radio 3 in concert" shows it in quite a few concert programmes, here's one showing how to combine some short English pieces into a very nice evening of music:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g55yz
> 
> I guess it might be different outside the UK...


Indeed, outside the U.K., it is quite rare to encounter any RVW in Concert programs.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

janxharris said:


> I believe you
> 
> Regarding music in the public domain - are you saying that some still choose to rent because they aren't on the internet or don't have a printer/time to do the printing?


...don't have a printer/time to do the printing.

Depending on the size of the orchestra you have to print many copies of the string parts. For the winds and the brass in an orchestra there is one on a part so one only has to print one part. Each part may be five to ten pages.

We are lucky. In our orchestra we have a member who is willing to take the time to absorb the expense of ink, paper and wear and tear on his printer to prepare the parts. Sometimes I help out by downloading and printing out the bassoon parts.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

janxharris said:


> You aren't making this up:
> 
> Boosey and Hawkes rental quote:
> 
> ...


Thanks for checking this out. Many publishers make if difficult to get the rental fees on line. That is what they charge amateur groups. Check out what the fee would be for professional orchestras.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

arpeggio said:


> Thanks for checking this out. Many publishers make if difficult to get the rental fees on line. That is what they charge amateur groups. Check out what the fee would be for professional orchestras.


No problem.

I'm trying to find the professional orchestra charge but there doesn't seem to be such a page on the B & H site.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Kennedy & Rattle/CBSO also put in a good performance:


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Mal said:


> Kennedy & Rattle/CBSO also put in a good performance:


Wow - great sound. Thanks.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I can see why this piece is popular - and I think RVW is phenomenal - love his symphones and many other works - the wasps overture is one piece I would stick in front of a german audience as an example of great english music. He's a major composer.

But I have a deaf spot for The Lark I'm afraid.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm a devotee of RVW's music, but Lark's not a favourite. In part that's because I don't think it's his most innovative and well-crafted of pieces, and in part because the violin opening passage is too similar to the Last Post. Given RVW' s experience of WW1, I'm not sure that's just my imagination.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

stomanek said:


> I can see why this piece is popular - and I think RVW is phenomenal - love his symphones and many other works - the wasps overture is one piece I would stick in front of a german audience as an example of great english music. He's a major composer.
> 
> But I have a deaf spot for The Lark I'm afraid.


Love the 5th symphony.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm a devotee of RVW's music, but Lark's not a favourite. In part that's because I don't think it's his most innovative and well-crafted of pieces, and in part because the violin opening passage is too similar to the Last Post. Given RVW' s experience of WW1, I'm not sure that's just my imagination.


Never thought that myself.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

janxharris said:


> Never thought that myself.


Fair enough, it's probably just me. Although RVW name-checked Meredith's 'Lark' poem, the theme of skylarks singing above the trenches appears in several WW1 poems, such as In Flanders Fields.
And the 'Pastoral' landscape behind his 3rd Symphony was a scene recalled from the Western Front. 
He was a complex man, RVW, and not easy to grasp.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Pat Fairlea said:


> Fair enough, it's probably just me. Although RVW name-checked Meredith's 'Lark' poem, the theme of skylarks singing above the trenches appears in several WW1 poems, such as In Flanders Fields.
> And the 'Pastoral' landscape behind his 3rd Symphony was a scene recalled from the Western Front.
> He was a complex man, RVW, and not easy to grasp.


I can certainly see why you suggest the Last Post link. Love the first movement of the third - as you say with First World War inspiration...France...


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Portamento said:


> So, what is your favorite interpretation? I've heard good things about Tasmin Little.


For two excellent, contrasting interpretations (which is what I look for when duplicating a work in my collection), I'd most recommend violinist Hugh Bean's Lark Ascending with the work's original conductor, Sir Adrian Boult, & the New Philharmonia, recorded in 1967, and violinist Iona Brown with Sir Neville Marriner & the Academy of St. Martin's in the Fields, recorded in 1972 (though the sound quality on the old Argo LP was better than the CD remaster, IMO). Apparently, Iona Brown re-recorded the work with Marriner for ASV in 1982, but I've not heard her 2nd version.










Those are my two favorite Larks; however, for yet another view of the work, you might have a listen to Pinchas Zukerman's more 'romantic' but very fine reading with conductor Daniel Barenboim & the English Chamber Orchestra for DG, recorded in 1973. (Zukerman later re-recorded it with the RPO, but it's not nearly as good as his 1973 recording, IMO.)






Among those recordings that I've heard in the digital era, none has equaled the Bean/Boult or Brown/Marriner performances. I haven't found any of them to be especially idiomatic. Though I did enjoy Hilary Hahn's recording more than Janine Jansen, Julia Fischer, or Nicola Benedetti's, yet Hahn's interpretation is quite spacious & maybe a little too broad, though beautifully played:






I've not heard Nigel Kennedy's Lark.


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