# Saint-Saens Symphony No.3 Does the Organist really matter?



## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Just a quick a one. I would be interested to know your views on the Symphony and whether the organist really does matters? Does the organist get a raw deal? It is a symphony after all and not a concerto.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I would venture to say that the actual organ is more critical than who is playing it. Certainly a well known organist will give the best presentation and they have their own fee schedules and usually have to be booked through their agent(s). This particular Symphony is best when performed and/or recorded in a church with an existing pipe organ installed.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^ As witnessed...


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

It's a critical part of the symphony. How does it not matter? Would you take the 1st horn out of Brahms 1?
I believe that's it's not an especially virtuosic organ part. 
You don't need a big-name soloist, if that's what you're asking.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Of course they matter, ask: Daniel Chorzempa/ Marcel Dupré /Olivier Latry / Jean Guilloud .
I am sure they all agree with me.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

It has always struck me as odd that the organist gets such big publicity and notice on records: E Power Biggs or Virgil Fox sure had their names plastered on records galore back in the day. Probably a selling point - but the organ part, while quite brilliantly written and extremely effective is no more important than the two pianists - and do you ever see their names on the record? Nope. I've played the symphony several times and a good, musical organist can do it just fine...if they follow the conductor and there's the real problem. Too many organists are not used to playing with an orchestra and the organ player needs to be a part of the ensemble and not think of himself as a soloist. And contrary to one post above, modern digital organs, like Rogers or Allen sound fantastic, properly set up...and they're in tune, which is more than can be said for a lot of older church organs.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

As in modern recordings the organ is sometimes recorded separately anyway, the organist just needs to be competent and jeep time. It is the recording team who are impirtant.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

mbhaub said:


> And contrary to one post above, modern digital organs, like Rogers or Allen sound fantastic, properly set up...and they're in tune, which is more than can be said for a lot of older church organs.


I would never go for a recording of S-S 3 that uses an electronic device instead of an organ. Would you accept the brass section being played on a synthesizer? I'm sure modern computer sampling wizardry will make it sound just as good as the real thing, right?
It always strikes me as funny when people who insist on authenticity and originality in instrument use (HIP or not), and for instance abhor a computer-generated wind machine in the Alpine Symphony, are fine with an electronic surrogate instead of the great instrument that S-S had in mind.
Also, it goes without saying that when you use a real organ, it need to be tuned properly. That has nothing to do with the age of the instrument.


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## Markbridge (Sep 28, 2014)

mbhaub said:


> It has always struck me as odd that the organist gets such big publicity and notice on records: E Power Biggs or Virgil Fox sure had their names plastered on records galore back in the day. Probably a selling point - but the organ part, while quite brilliantly written and extremely effective is no more important than the two pianists - and do you ever see their names on the record?


I think, perhaps, the difference is the fact that the piano is more integrated with the orchestra, even though you can hear the piano very well. The organ, however, is far more of a standout instrument. I think of the violinist in Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. As far a I know, the violinist (usually the concertmaster) is always named on the sleeve. At least that's how I see it. But I think you're right, too, in that there's probably some marketing involve.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

If the composer thought that the organist mattered and if we don't think so, imho we should look for the error on our side.

Saint-Saens learnt how to compose (I wouldn't say that he was always the most inspired composer, however, he knew what to do.). Maybe it is up to us to learn to listen.


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