# A kind of piece you'd like to hear but have never found?



## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

For instance I remember a poster requesting electronic music that was less about experimenting with sounds and more about melody and thematic development. Or maybe you've always wanted to hear something that will probably never exist, like a full-fledged symphony based on a favorite film score, or an expanded version of a short piece. Even better might be things you suspect exist but have never gotten around to.

Maybe someone else out there on TC can point you in the right direction!

I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz, mainly because I've had a really hard time getting into improvisation. An even more boring one for me is classical music with a heavy, noticeable emphasis on percussion.


----------



## Ludric (Oct 29, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz, mainly because I've had a really hard time getting into improvisation.


Aren't the compositions of George Gershwin exactly that?


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

A couple of things.

I've always wanted a drum kit in an orchestral work. I've actually heard a string quartet with a drum kit added as a surprise in the final movement (Juxtaposition by J. Brendan Adamson) but that's kind of insane unless you amplify the strings. But I've always thought a drum kit offers a lot more versatility than the usual one percussion instrument at a time approach of most orchestration.

Another thing I want to hear but I can barely describe is a music as complex as molecular biology with the various motifs interacting as molecules in organized yet rhythmically complex ways. The closest I've heard to the idea I have is possibly some of Schoenberg (Suite Op. 29), some Boulez (Derives), some Messiaen (Quartet for the End of Time) -- but most closely in the prog rock group Gentle Giant:










Give me enough classical that does that and I'll be very happy. I know some of it must, but it's hard for me to find among all the thousands of normal traditional forms.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

If you want percussion, I recommend Xenakis' Pléïades. It consists of four movements entitled, Metals, Keyboards, Skins & Mixture, where each movement is performed on the corresponding group of percussion instruments.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Weston said:


> I've always wanted a drum kit in an orchestral work.


John Adams's _Chamber Symphony _(the first one, not _Son of Chamber Symphony_) includes a drum kit.


----------



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I've always liked the idea of an orchestral work with recorders in.
I'm probably the only one though.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

A concerto for orchestra and bagpipes ... Yes there is Peter Maxwell Davies' Orkney Wedding but that is hardly a concerto. Coming closer is Graham Waterhouse's Chieftain's Salute but still not quite there.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Weston said:


> Another thing I want to hear but I can barely describe is a music as complex as molecular biology with the various motifs interacting as molecules in organized yet rhythmically complex ways. The closest I've heard to the idea I have is possibly some of Schoenberg (Suite Op. 29), some Boulez (Derives), some Messiaen (Quartet for the End of Time)
> 
> Give me enough classical that does that and I'll be very happy. I know some of it must, but it's hard for me to find among all the thousands of normal traditional forms.


Messiaen's Epode from Chronochromie?


----------



## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

I knew I was forgetting the main one I wanted to suggest! I'd settle for any music with bagpipes; I have been craving that for the longest time. The glass armonica is another one I wish got more exposure. The glockenspiel too, too many instruments to name.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> If you want percussion, I recommend Xenakis' Pléïades. It consists of four movements entitled, Metals, Keyboards, Skins & Mixture, where each movement is performed on the corresponding group of percussion instruments.


Thanks! I'll see if I can snare a copy!


----------



## Ludric (Oct 29, 2014)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I've always liked the idea of an orchestral work with recorders in.
> I'm probably the only one though.


Does this count? It's a piccolo concerto, but a soprano recorder is being played in this performance.


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I've always liked the idea of an orchestral work with recorders in.
> I'm probably the only one though.


I know Holmboe has a recorder concerto. I even know someone that likes it.


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Weston said:


> I've always wanted a drum kit in an orchestral work. I've actually heard a string quartet with a drum kit added as a surprise in the final movement (Juxtaposition by J. Brendan Adamson) but that's kind of insane unless you amplify the strings. But I've always thought a drum kit offers a lot more versatility than the usual one percussion instrument at a time approach of most orchestration


I think there's a Brett Dean work - I think it might be Game Over?


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Becca said:


> A concerto for orchestra and bagpipes ... Yes there is Peter Maxwell Davies' Orkney Wedding but that is hardly a concerto. Coming closer is Graham Waterhouse's Chieftain's Salute but still not quite there.


There is a concerto for Great Highland Bagpipe and orchestra by Kevin Weed (link).


----------



## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Panic by Birtwistle has a solo drum kit to go with the solo sax - very cool






Good story in the youtube link too!


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I want that recording of Barbara Hannigan doing Lulu on iTunes download and not just DVD/Blu-ray.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I've thought of lots of operas that I'd like to see, but I've shared my thoughts on that in other threads. 

I enjoy unusual combinations of instruments. 

I've long thought a sarcastic "student symphony" would be fun: something that sets out to break all of the rules that you're taught in the first few semesters of music theory or whatever, and with stuff that make the musicians sound like they're making mistakes. Just open up with a series of parallel fifths, and the violas a 16th note late or early, sharp or flat on all of them.... Or have one movement where one group of instruments (ideally, perhaps, trombones) plays the music of a later movement for about the half the time, and then of an earlier movement about half the time. Another movement should end after about two measures, followed by a movement with almost the same beginning but full-length, as if the conductor had stopped everyone and started over. The art would be to pull it all together in the end, to make it intellectually and aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz...





> I've always wanted a drum kit in an orchestral work.


There's this Naxos disc which includes a concerto for jazz band & orchestra.









Alternatively, how about the Concerto for Jazz Drummer & Orchestra by Harold Farberman?


----------



## pianississimo (Nov 24, 2014)

I wonder if anyone has ever thought of a symphony for coughs and sneezes?
The string section could provide the sound effects within their instrument range and the percussion section could use loudhailers to really hammer the big hacking sounds.
The audience would of course be joining in. The only problem would be keeping them in time.

I'd like to hear this symphony - although probably only once


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

pianississimo said:


> I wonder if anyone has ever thought of a symphony for coughs and sneezes?
> The string section could provide the sound effects within their instrument range and the percussion section could use loudhailers to really hammer the big hacking sounds.
> The audience would of course be joining in. The only problem would be keeping them in time.
> 
> I'd like to hear this symphony - although probably only once


Germaphobes welcome!

But not expected to attend.


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz, mainly because I've had a really hard time getting into improvisation.


Besides Gershwin (already mentioned), there is Aaron Copland's Piano Concerto (1926) and his Music for the Theater (circa 1925)


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Looking for a work with focus on texture, timbre, colour, atmosphere etc. that combines both an orchestra and synthesizer(s). The conditions are:
- not film music 
- the synthesizer is used for tones and chords and not (just) for noises and effects 
- the synthesizer is not used as a solo instrument and also doesn't serve as just another instrument to the orchestra; it has to have an important role, more or less equal to the role of the orchestra, sort of duet between synthesizer and orchestra
If such a thing exists I'd be very interested.


----------



## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

DeepR said:


> Looking for a work with focus on texture, timbre, colour, atmosphere etc. that combines both an orchestra and synthesizer(s). The conditions are:
> - not film music
> - the synthesizer is used for tones and chords and not (just) for noises and effects
> - the synthesizer is not used as a solo instrument and also doesn't serve as just another instrument to the orchestra; it has to have an important role, more or less equal to the role of the orchestra, sort of duet between synthesizer and orchestra
> If such a thing exists I'd be very interested.


If by 'synthesiser' you mean electronic instrument then perhaps you'd find what you are looking for in Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

DeepR said:


> Looking for a work with focus on texture, timbre, colour, atmosphere etc. that combines both an orchestra and synthesizer(s). The conditions are:
> - not film music
> - the synthesizer is used for tones and chords and not (just) for noises and effects
> - the synthesizer is not used as a solo instrument and also doesn't serve as just another instrument to the orchestra; it has to have an important role, more or less equal to the role of the orchestra, sort of duet between synthesizer and orchestra
> If such a thing exists I'd be very interested.


You might want to check out Rautavaara's Vincentiania symphony (nr 6 IIRC).


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Orchestral work with electric guitar (with distortion) that's not a concerto, but the electric guitar plays a very important role.


----------



## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> For instance I remember a poster requesting electronic music that was less about experimenting with sounds and more about melody and thematic development. Or maybe you've always wanted to hear something that will probably never exist, like a full-fledged symphony based on a favorite film score, or an expanded version of a short piece. Even better might be things you suspect exist but have never gotten around to.
> 
> Maybe someone else out there on TC can point you in the right direction!
> 
> I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz, mainly because I've had a really hard time getting into improvisation. An even more boring one for me is classical music with a heavy, noticeable emphasis on percussion.


Have you seen this? Late Renaissance music may not fit under everyone's umbrella of "classical music", but it might help.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

QuietGuy said:


> Besides Gershwin (already mentioned), there is Aaron Copland's Piano Concerto (1926) and his Music for the Theater (circa 1925)


Music for the Theater is terrific!!


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> I've always wanted to hear music that is somewhere between classical and jazz, mainly because I've had a really hard time getting into improvisation. An even more boring one for me is classical music with a heavy, noticeable emphasis on percussion.


Besides the mentioned Gerswhin (it must be said that there's no improvisation in his orchestral piece) there's a world of music called third stream where you can find contaminations between classical and improvisations and also a ton of classical jazzy music without improvisation 
http://www.talkclassical.com/22211-jazzy-classical-music.html


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Romantic/classical hybrid, but not like Beethoven/Schubert/Mendelssohn/Brahms, but more like late romantic with very Mozart-sounding passages mixed in


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> Orchestral work with electric guitar (with distortion) that's not a concerto, but the electric guitar plays a very important role.


Erkki-Sven Tuur: Symphony No. 5

Also Richard Barrett: Dark Matter (it's not distorted often, but a few of the interludes have wild distorted solos)


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> You might want to check out Rautavaara's Vincentiania symphony (nr 6 IIRC).


Seconded.

I wish I knew more of a synthesizer concerto kinda thing though.

If you're ok with just any ole electronic instrument, you should hear Aho's theremin concerto and Jolivet's ondes martenot concerto.

I share your love of popular electronic music, DeepR... I'm actually thinking about trying to write a couple of little songs with serial synthesizer melodies and beat kits that follow duration sets and aleatoric stuff.


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> Romantic/classical hybrid, but not like Beethoven/Schubert/Mendelssohn/Brahms, but more like late romantic with very Mozart-sounding passages mixed in


Tchaikovsky?


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

nathanb said:


> Tchaikovsky?


Really? For example?


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> Really? For example?


Suite for Orchestra #4 - 'Mozartiana'


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

nathanb said:


> Seconded.
> 
> I wish I knew more of a synthesizer concerto kinda thing though.
> .


There is at least one (link).


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I wonder whether I really want to hear "baromantique" music or did I just want to make that pun.


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

DeepR said:


> Looking for a work with focus on texture, timbre, colour, atmosphere etc. that combines both an orchestra and synthesizer(s). The conditions are:
> - not film music
> - the synthesizer is used for tones and chords and not (just) for noises and effects
> - the synthesizer is not used as a solo instrument and also doesn't serve as just another instrument to the orchestra; it has to have an important role, more or less equal to the role of the orchestra, sort of duet between synthesizer and orchestra
> If such a thing exists I'd be very interested.


DeepR, have you heard RickWakeman's _Journey to the Centre of the Earth_ It's a work from 1974 that combines Synthisizer, Rock Band, Orchestra, Choir, Solo Vocal and Narrator. Also combines classical material with rock material with improvisation. Interesting work for its time.


----------



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

I have long wanted to get my hands on a performance of Messiaen's _Saint Francois d'Assise_, but none of the libraries have it and recordings are too expensive...


----------



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

I would say music that has a truly high, exquisite, exotic beauty, yet also has a lot of forcefulness, yet is also soulful, suggests the movement of destiny, and has a sense of urgency.


----------



## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Posie said:


> Have you seen this? Late Renaissance music may not fit under everyone's umbrella of "classical music", but it might help.


I love this!!!



brotagonist said:


> If you want percussion, I recommend Xenakis' Pléïades. It consists of four movements entitled, Metals, Keyboards, Skins & Mixture, where each movement is performed on the corresponding group of percussion instruments.


I enjoyed this a lot too. It's not really what I had in mind, but it should have been!


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'd like to hear a 37 minute, relatively pithy Mahler symphony in three or four movements.

Come on Gustav! I don't have all day!!!


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Posie said:


> Have you seen this? Late Renaissance music may not fit under everyone's umbrella of "classical music", but it might help.


I have to say that I kinda enjoyed the countertenor vocals in a perverse way. Like I was creeped out by them but strangely fascinated by this creepy sensation. Sorry if this offends countertenors or countertenor fans.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Celloman said:


> I have long wanted to get my hands on a performance of Messiaen's _Saint Francois d'Assise_, but none of the libraries have it and recordings are too expensive...


I need to see if iTunes has a copy that I can download then.


----------



## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

Dim7 said:


> I have to say that I kinda enjoyed the countertenor vocals in a perverse way. Like I was creeped out by them but strangely fascinated by this creepy sensation. Sorry if this offends countertenors or countertenor fans.


No need to be ashamed.  This type of singing was mainstream for a few centuries, not perverse.


----------

