# Favorite Key?



## LiLi

I'm just curious/bored. What is everyone's favorite (or least favorite) key to play in and listen to?
My favorite to play is probably G Major or C Major cause theyre easy hehe. but I don't like listening to pieces in C Major. Most seem dull. I really love listening to pieces in Db Major. It just sounds a lot richer. BUT I hate to play in Db Major. weird...


----------



## Music_Junkie

Too many cool keys! Generally I prefer listening to pieces that are in darker, minor keys. 

To play...right now I'm not digging practicing stuff in the key of F sharp (G flat) major on violin. I really like playing in that key on the piano though.


----------



## JANK

LiLi said:


> I'm just curious/bored. What is everyone's favorite (or least favorite) key to play in and listen to?
> My favorite to play is probably G Major or C Major cause theyre easy hehe. but I don't like listening to pieces in C Major. Most seem dull. I really love listening to pieces in Db Major. It just sounds a lot richer. BUT I hate to play in Db Major. weird...


Do you have absolute pitch? My favorite key is either D or Eb, to me those are the most noble keys (yes I've got perfect pitch).


----------



## soul_syringe

*anything minor, definitely*

anything on the minor key, definitely... favorite? G-minor (my favorite to play on the violin) and C#minor (on the piano)


----------



## Grunthos

Ab major and G minor.
Ab is easy to play.
G minor is both dark and versatile.
eg.
Mozart's 25th symphony compared to Tchaikovsky's June from The Seasons.
Mozart's 25th is dark, June is lyrical.

Nice.


----------



## Edward Elgar

I like Eb minor - It's very easy yet so rewarding. C major just sounds childish to me now!


----------



## mahlerfan

Well, I'm not really sure which is my favorite out of all of them, but I do seem to prefer dark, minor keys.


----------



## Harmonie

I love minor keys... nothing specific, just minor keys.


----------



## Krummhorn

Major Keys: D flat & E
Minor Keys: F sharp & A


----------



## Linda La Cagnina

I like to listen to pieces in G Major or C Major. I guess I'm common.


----------



## Frasier

I quite like B/Cflat and Dflat major and relative minors...aside from the different timbre probably because of the way pianos are tuned, they're actually easier to play on the piano. The black notes fall easily under the fingers. I wouldn't say the same for other instruments though.


----------



## IAmKing

This seems like a ridiculous question to me. I've heard music in every key that I've liked and disliked. C Major, for instance, is the key in which I've heard alot of ****, but Sibelius' 7th is in C Major, and it is a wonderful piece of music. 

As for favourite key for playing in, I generally dislike keys with more than 5 flats or sharps in the key signature.


----------



## Guest

My favourite keys are the keys to the Kingdom, with Bach’s sacred music.


----------



## jeremyr60

Hmmm. new here. Ive never really paid much to key signatures, im guess im like Prokofiev (one of my favorites) whom wrote many pieces in C major due to his accidentals etc. 
To say C major is "childish" is in fact childish in itself, Prokofiev pieces are definitely NOT childish ... but may favorite key would have to be d minor, "Baroque power" lol


----------



## Giovannimusica

I'm with Daffodylls on that question about my favorite keys.    

Regards!

Giovanni


----------



## ChamberNut

Similarly to Daffodylls and Giovannimusica, I like the keys to Room B.

Room B contains alot of the best including Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner, Berlioz, Bartok, Boccherini, Bizet, Borodin etc.


----------



## CelloPrincess04

I have this strange love for the key of Eb. I think it comes from the 4th cello suite. Mmm. And C minor (go figure) makes me happy.

I don't dislike listening to any keys but PLAYING in keys with more than 4 flats is not fun. True string player- I'd take the sharps over the flats any day.


----------



## zlya

Edward Elgar said:


> I like Eb minor - It's very easy yet so rewarding. C major just sounds childish to me now!


Six flats is very easy? I hate to hear what you consider hard.

I think it depends on the instrument. I like playing flat keys on the piano, sharp keys on the clarinet, mostly because the middle b-flat on a clarinet is a tricky note to play well and in tune. That's playing pitch, not concert pitch.


----------



## avrile

Hmmm.. western classical keys are limited. I would want to explore other forms of scale systems like those of India. FYI: Note that Debussy didn't like to have keys 'coz of its limited range and function. This of course was inspired by the Paris Expo of the 1890s where Debussy experienced the music of Indonesia's gamelan.


----------



## gmubandgeek

I have perfect pitch, but I have this weird thing going on that I see key signatures in colors more so than sharps or flats. I know kind of crazy. But I like Eb because I see it as blue and its my favorite color. But there's something about Gb major that just does it for me.


----------



## gmubandgeek

avrile said:


> Hmmm.. western classical keys are limited. I would want to explore other forms of scale systems like those of India. FYI: Note that Debussy didn't like to have keys 'coz of its limited range and function. This of course was inspired by the Paris Expo of the 1890s where Debussy experienced the music of Indonesia's gamelan.


I just finished a symposium on World Music. I enjoyed the Indonesia gendhings, but the ragas of India just messes with my head in the way they bend their pitches. Plus they're so numerous it's impossible to know them all. But they are really talented musicians, and I'm glad I got the exposure. Good music.


----------



## Josef Anton Bruckner

C# minor, E flat Major


----------



## TWhite

d minor. On the piano, it sets up an overtone series that if you're not used to it, can make you want to do VERY DARK things after you've played it, LOL! 

A very rich key. Second would be b minor, and either G-flat or F-Sharp Major. Those keys are just a TON of fun to play.

Tom


----------



## MusicalOffering

b minor, possibly c minor


----------



## Km7

In Equal Temperament, the character (the relationship between the tones) of the keys is the same. So in this case what you like or dislike is just the total position in the frequency spectrum.

My favorite key is Enter.


----------



## woodwind_fan

I'm an E Minor boy. Let's look at all the amazing symphonies in E Minor:

Tchaikovsky 5
Shostakovich 10
Brahms 4
Dvorak 9
Rachmaninoff 2
Mahler 7
Vaughan Williams 6
Vaughan Williams 9

I rest my case.


----------



## Ernie

Km7 said:


> In Equal Temperament, the character (the relationship between the tones) of the keys is the same. So in this case what you like or dislike is just the total position in the frequency spectrum.
> 
> My favorite key is Enter.


This is true - to a certain point. Theoretically, all keys should sound the same on a keyboard instrument tuned in equal temperament. However, in the real world, equal temperament is a goal seldom truly achieved by even good tuners. Inharmonicity, especially in small pianos, sometimes make equal temperament impossible to achieve. In addition, we all have certain, sometimes subconscious, preferences that often creep into and affect the equal temperament tuning. We tend to like our fifths purer than they should be and, in making them so, it's easy for a tuner to be pleased with his/her temperament octave - even if it isn't truly equal. The smaller the piano, the less likely the equal temperament will actual be equal. As a result, some keys can sound differently from other keys - at least to a listener with good ears. Finally, it takes a good quality instrument to hold a fine tuning for any length of time. The "perfectionist" tuner who spends two hours trying to fine tune his equal temperament on a spinet piano is, unfortunately, wasting his time.


----------



## maestro267

I'm a B minor guy. In fact, as I write, I'm about to listen to Elgar's Violin Concerto in B minor.

I don't know why but to me B major sounds sadder than B minor. Maybe because it's usually followed either by Eb minor or G# minor or something.

And because a few people have mentioned it, yes I have perfect pitch and yes I love it!


----------



## MatsumaruDX

Hmm, I liked C sharp minor and B flat minor. 

Both of the keys can connect to each other, Like in Chopin's Scherzo Op. 39 or in Debussy's Claire de Lune.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

MatsumaruDX said:


> Hmm, I liked C sharp minor and B flat minor.
> 
> Both of the keys can connect to each other, Like in Chopin's Scherzo Op. 39 or in Debussy's Claire de Lune.


Yep! Cuz they're related to D flat major, the most romantic key there is.


----------



## PianoCoach

This question would have been even more interesting before the absolute temperament was established in the middle 1800's. Early Romantics, Beethoven, Mozart, Hayden and Bach wrote in keys that mattered to the tone quality. Bach tuned his harpsichord himself and set his temperament so that different emotions could be accentuated in different keys. 

A piece written in C Major today provides the same emotional expression as any other major key (provided the listener doesn't have perfect pitch). Keys today are chosen for ease of fingering and orchestration. (provided the composer cares about the performers -- ha)


----------



## MatsumaruDX

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Yep! Cuz they're related to D flat major, the most romantic key there is.


Yup..! it's so romantic. The key possesed very different emotional, sometimes sad, other like a love-romace emotion.


----------



## Webernite

D major, especially as used by Bach. I'm also fond of other major keys like B flat major, E flat major, D flat major, and G major. F major is a nice key for symphonies...


----------



## Couchie

D minor and E Flat (D sharp) minor.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

C sharp minor, D minor, D flat Major, E minor , A minor, D major, E major, F sharp minor.


----------



## Vesteralen

When I'm playing music, I prefer as few sharps and flats as possible. 

When listening, I'm not sure. I seem to like a lot of works in E flat Major (Haydn Sym 76, 99, 103; Mozart Piano Conc 9 & Sym 39; Beethoven Emperor Concerto), but then again I don't like Mahler's 8th (but I don't think it has anything to do with the key).


----------



## kv466

I really like em all but couple of my favs are e flat major and b flat minor


----------



## darknocturne

A flat major, such a romantic key!  And F sharp minor is in my opinion one of the darkest and most expressive keys you can use.


----------



## Curiosity

Eb major, B major, C minor, F minor


----------



## beethovenian

Honestly, to my unpolished ears, i can't tell which key is which in the middle of a piece....

but however, i am able tell a C note by ear if it is being played out loud and alone (woohoo absolute pitch for C note). 

But still my ear is in a very pitiful state with regards to musical pitch.


----------



## Klavierspieler

C major, period.


----------



## Guest

The one that starts my car - but really, it is a tie with the one that unlocks my house.

Sorry - but honestly, I'm really the first one to make this obvious joke in a thread that is over 3 years old?!?


----------



## Pieck

F minor, F minor (for the ten characters)


----------



## Curiosity

DrMike said:


> The one that starts my car - but really, it is a tie with the one that unlocks my house.
> 
> Sorry - but honestly, I'm really the first one to make this obvious joke in a thread that is over 3 years old?!?


6 years old infact.


----------



## LouisMasterMusic

I truly admire D Minor, so grand, dramatic, and full of majesty - at least most of the time!


----------



## shangoyal

For those who don't like C major anymore, listen to Beethoven's 1st symphony, or the finale of his 5th.


----------



## adam

F major or Eb major. Coincidentally, my two favorite Beethoven symphonies are 6 and 3.


----------



## Mahlerian

As I've said elsewhere, I feel an odd attraction to the key of B minor. More oddly still, none of Mahler's symphonic movements are in this key (although two of them begin in it!).



adam said:


> F major or Eb major. Coincidentally, my two favorite Beethoven symphonies are 6 and 3.


What about No. 8?


----------



## trazom

Works that are labeled "in the key of---" usually change keys many times, so having a favorite because the piece starts and sometimes ends in that key seems a bit silly, the same with associating C major with "childishness."


----------



## dgee

I'll wager a brown ale that no more than one or two of you could tell what key music is in at any given time


----------



## Clump

F# minor and Ab minor


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Mixolydian ...

... to give a modish answer


----------



## Vesteralen

dgee said:


> I'll wager a brown ale that no more than one or two of you could tell what key music is in at any given time


Probably not, but what's the point in pointing it out?


----------



## Tristan

Favorite key to play is F major; when I improvise on the piano, I almost always play in F. It's one of my favorite keys to listen to as well, though my absolute favorite is probably B major.


----------



## spradlig

On the piano, is there much of a difference between, say, a piece in C major and the same piece transposed a semitone upward to D flat major? Is there any discernable difference in tone color that would result? I don't know how pianos are tuned, so maybe there really is a difference, I don't know.

The reason I mention the piano specifically is that on the piano, unlike bowed stringed instruments, there is not the issue of open strings versus notes that must be played pressing your finger on the string. I don't know much about wind instruments, but I suspect that on wind instruments some notes are more easy to play than others, and some notes can be played more loudly than others.

I don't really understand how someone could have "a favorite key" (especially for piano music) unless maybe they have perfect pitch, and I would guess that perfect pitch is rare, even among musicians (this is a guess, feel free to prove me wrong).

If you do have a favorite key (to listen to), can you explain why?


----------



## spradlig

When I play or listen to the piano, often the black notes sound different from the white notes. Could this possibly be from the way pianos are tuned, or does it have to be because (i) I know what key the music is in, and it is biasing me, or (ii) the black keys have been played less frequently than the white keys because some composers try to be nice to performers by making most of the notes be white keys, hence the black keys are used less frequently and end up sounding different?


----------



## Clump

spradlig said:


> On the piano, is there much of a difference between, say, a piece in C major and the same piece transposed a semitone upward to D flat major? Is there any discernable difference in tone color that would result? I don't know how pianos are tuned, so maybe there really is a difference, I don't know.
> 
> The reason I mention the piano specifically is that on the piano, unlike bowed stringed instruments, there is not the issue of open strings versus notes that must be played pressing your finger on the string. I don't know much about wind instruments, but I suspect that on wind instruments some notes are more easy to play than others, and some notes can be played more loudly than others.
> 
> I don't really understand how someone could have "a favorite key" (especially for piano music) unless maybe they have perfect pitch, and I would guess that perfect pitch is rare, even among musicians (this is a guess, feel free to prove me wrong).
> 
> If you do have a favorite key (to listen to), can you explain why?


I don't think people with perfect pitch are the only people to whom different keys sound different. They're just the people with good enough ears and memories that they can actually identify the key based on something so slight.

If you've ever tried transposing a passage of music into various keys, you'd hear that they do sound different, although the differences are very very subtle and difficult to describe.


----------



## Clara Esmolla

Major: Db Major -- This key always appears in dark blue color for me. Really intriguing!
Ab Major -- Sounds warm
Minor: G# Minor -- hard to describe.. but i love the Prelude and Fugue in G# Minor in WTC Book1!


----------



## Novelette

D Flat Major. There's a certain sweetness to the key--to my ears, anyway.

When playing the piano, this key feels very natural to my fingers.


----------



## Novelette

shangoyal said:


> For those who don't like C major anymore, listen to Beethoven's 1st symphony, or the finale of his 5th.


Converting it to B Sharp Major may revive interest in it--as wind, brass, and keyboard instrumentalists bond while running one who dared do so out of town. When they return to the normative C Major, they will be tremendously relieved. The palliative effect will associate C Major with simple elegance in their minds...

My own preening madness aside, C Major seems underappreciated.


----------



## hpowders

A Major as in Beethoven's 7th symphony and Mozart's 23rd piano concerto, the immortal K488.


----------



## Praeludium

I like Dflat major and Eb minor. Because they're cool. Moreover, Schumann's Intermezzo from the Carnaval de Vienne is in Eflat minor and that's a cool piece - even though a lot of persons have probably heard it too many times. Not me hehe
Tonalities with a lot of flats tend to be more appealing than those with a lot of sharps to me. Which is ridiculous because at some point you'll always find enharmonic equivalences.

I hate C-sharp major, because there are just *too many double-sharps* (thinking about the fugue BWV 848, in Csharp major from the first book of Bach's Well Tempered Keyboard). No, that's not the same as Dflat :l


----------



## aberooski

Probably F# harmonic minor with a raised 4.


----------



## beetzart

I like C minor then D minor. For major keys I quite like E flat because it can be bombastic and I find it easy to modulate, obviously with C minor. Ab and Db too because they are easy to play. Honorary mention for E flat minor, not many pieces in this one, but it has an eerie quality.


----------



## guy

Major keys: D-flat, E-flat
Minor Keys: D (definitely), C, B-flat, and G-sharp

I definitely prefer minor keys. Much more introspective.


----------



## Williarw

D minor is my favorite.


----------



## georgedelorean

All time favorite key is D Major. I just love how happy it is. I know some might want to strangle me for that, however I just can't help it! This is what I consider to be the key of ultimate joy, happiness, triumph, and glory.


----------



## RichieWagon

Favourites: E-flat Major (heroic, noble) and D-flat Major (lyrical and almost oriental)
Least Favourites: G Major (just generally boring, nothing going on) and C Major (again, boring)

HOWEVER, it all depends on how you use the keys. For example, C major is absolutely divine in Die Meistersinger by Wagner.


----------



## Page

F-sharp Major. This key is unusual because of the 6 sharps, but it's very nice to play on the black keys and F-sharp M seems to be clearer and more delicate than F Maj. Subjective impression, of course.


----------



## Minori Aiko

G Minor, B Minor, and Bb Minor
If I picked a major key it'd be Eb Major


----------



## hpowders

I love A Major as in Mozart's 23rd Piano Concerto and Clarinet Concerto. The key also does wonders for Bruckner in his Sixth Symphony-brightens him up a bit.


----------



## MusicSybarite

E-flat major - The heroic key par excellence (e.g. Beethoven Symphony 3)
G major - The rustic key (e.g. Dvorák Symphony 8)

F minor - The passion key (e.g. Haydn Symphony 49, Tchaikovsky 4)
E-flat minor - The nature forces key (e.g. Langgaard Symphonies 4 and 10)


----------



## Bettina

C minor, because I associate it with some of Beethoven's stormiest music (Piano Trio No. 3, Pathétique, 5th symphony, first movement of Op. 111...)


----------



## hpowders

Bettina said:


> C minor, because I associate it with some of Beethoven's stormiest music (Piano Trio No. 3, Pathétique, 5th symphony, first movement of Op. 111...)


Yes and the Brahms First Symphony, Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto, Mozart's Great Mass and Bach's monumental Passacaglia and Fugue for organ are also all endowed, well-endowed, actually, with the wonderful C minor key.


----------



## bz3

With a nod to D major (as a violinist) and to D minor (as a deep admirer of its rich symphonic pallate) I will settle on E minor. I find I frequently revert to it and belive I have answered this before on this forum, doubtless it says something about my character.


----------



## Omicron9

D minor. Because it's the saddest of all keys. It makes people weep instantly.


----------



## Guest

D Minor (Sibelius 6th, Beethoven's 9th)


----------



## Dim7

In a year this thread is officially a teenager.


----------



## id0ntmatter

My favorite is B Minor and my least favorite is honestly...I don't know maybe F Sharp Major? It makes me feel a certain way and I don't like to feel that way. I dont really dislike any key though.


----------



## Rogerx

Dim7 said:


> In a year this thread is officially a teenager.


In forum years old as one feels.


----------



## Guest

No poll? How are we supposed to know who's winning??


----------



## Rogerx

Rogerx said:


> In forum years old as one feels.


They weren't in fashion in 2005.


----------



## david johnson

I really enjoy the keys to my house and my car.


----------



## Fabulin

Eb major / Cm

and also A and D major


----------



## norman bates

Is it just me or it's a ridiculous question? 
I mean before equal temperament it was certainly a different story, with keys having a different character, but with equal temperament the intervals in all keys are exactly the same. There are not even subtle differences. It's like asking "do you prefer Coca Cola or Coca Cola? Or maybe Coca Cola?"


----------



## Brahmsian Colors

I'm not a musician, but for listening it's G major.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

I don't have a favourite key. My favourite music spans all the keys.


----------



## Fabulin

norman bates said:


> Is it just me or it's a ridiculous question?
> I mean before equal temperament it was certainly a different story, with keys having a different character, but with equal temperament the intervals in all keys are exactly the same. There are not even subtle differences. It's like asking "do you prefer Coca Cola or Coca Cola? Or maybe Coca Cola?"


Wrong. Different keys present their proportional relations in unique pitches, which can make a huge difference. Some people's "center of weight" in terms of hearing can for example be D4, not C4.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Fabulin said:


> Wrong. Different keys present their proportional relations in unique pitches, which can make a huge difference. Some people's "center of weight" in terms of hearing can for example be D4, not C4.


I hear you but it doesn't make a big difference for me.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

There's something about Db and Eb major and Bb minor to really hit me in the feels. Though of course a perfectly-placed C major chord can have a wondrous cleansing, radiant effect; like at the end of the first movement of Schumann's Fantasie in C.


----------



## norman bates

Fabulin said:


> Wrong. Different keys present their proportional relations in unique pitches,


What? Unique pitches? All intervals are equal. That's why it's called equal temperament.



Fabulin said:


> which can make a huge difference. Some people's "center of weight" in terms of hearing can for example be D4, not C4.


What do you mean with center of weight?


----------



## mikeh375

Keys matter to instrumentation of course. For example a string piece in Gmajor or D major will likely have a more resonant and bright sound than if the piece was transposed up or down a semitone. A good composer/orchestrator will capitalise on such issues.


----------



## flamencosketches

I like both C-sharp minor and C minor, G major, and A-flat major. Don't ask why.


----------



## norman bates

mikeh375 said:


> Keys matter to instrumentation of course. For example a string piece in Gmajor or D major will likely have a more resonant and bright sound than if the piece was transposed up or down a semitone. A good composer/orchestrator will capitalise on such issues.


that's true, but that is something that changes with different instruments and their resonances (and to the technique to play them), it's not something tied to the non existent character of the key itself.


----------



## mikeh375

norman bates said:


> that's true, but that is something that changes with different instruments and their resonances (and to the technique to play them), it's not something tied to the non existent character of the key itself.


I agree, but the resonance can be brighter and that can be perceived and perhaps interpreted as such by the listener. Intrinsically, keys do have the same character or rather structure, but interestingly, I sense a different 'feel', or vibe when playing in F minor than I do when playing in say Aminor.


----------



## norman bates

mikeh375 said:


> I agree, but the resonance can be brighter and that can be perceived and perhaps interpreted as such by the listener.


And I agree with this, my point is that since different instruments have different resonances it could have some sense to say that one have a preference for a key for a certain instrument with a certain tuning (AND a certain string gauge, and a certain material of the string that could change, and how the surface of the string is made). For instance the guitar is used with tons of different tunings with obvious radical differences, and even violins could use scordatura for certain pieces. But it's impossible to make a generalization, since different pieces use different instruments (even looking only at the world of classical music), and even the interaction of the tone of different instruments can change the harmonics I suspect, making generalizations even more meaningless to me.


----------



## EdwardBast

It wasn't a conscious preference, but apparently my favorite key is A major, based on the odd predominance of that key in the works I'm currently playing on the piano. I would have thought it was C minor. Strange.


----------



## Fabulin

The effects the relations between tones have on us are influenced by the tones' absolute starting and finishing pitch levels, not only by their relative distance, because no biological auditory system can be attuned to all pitch levels equally. Asking about people's favourites can hint at interesting interpersonal differences in biology even when the influence of instrument types etc. is accounted for.

And even if practically speaking, we assume a "key" to mean "key when played on standard instruments", it is still an interesting question to pose.


----------



## MusicSybarite

E-flat minor for me. Works written in this key somehow give me the impression of something forceful with struggle and transcendence. I wish there would be more works in this key, especially symphonies.


----------



## norman bates

Fabulin said:


> The effects the relations between tones have on us are influenced by the *tones' absolute starting and finishing pitch levels*, not only by their relative distance, because no biological auditory system can be attuned to all pitch levels equally. Asking about people's favourites can hint at interesting interpersonal differences in biology even when the influence of instrument types etc. is accounted for.


but tonality is not limited to an octave. Each key can be played on all the 88 keys of the piano and beyond. Not to mention that there are also modes.


----------



## Guest002

A major, because it's a nice yellow. Or C major, because it's a lovely dark Bristol blue.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

Synaesthetics of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your palette.  I have the same tendency but a different colour scheme. In mine A major is blue or bluish-purple and it's actually C major that's yellow or possibly a yellowish green.

More generally I have a fondness for F major (dark green shading to grey) and a good thing too, given that my teacher set me Mozart's sonata K332 as one of my lockdown assignments and I had to play the whole thing, incl.the whirlwind finale, for her when lessons resumed recently.


----------



## Guest002

Animal the Drummer said:


> Synaesthetics of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your palette.  I have the same tendency but a different colour scheme. In mine A major is blue or bluish-purple and it's actually C major that's yellow or possibly a yellowish green.
> 
> More generally I have a fondness for F major (dark green shading to grey) and a good thing too, given that my teacher set me Mozart's sonata K332 as one of my lockdown assignments and I had to play the whole thing, incl.the whirlwind finale, for her when lessons resumed recently.


E major is my green. B major a rich purple. G major a murky brown/red (my least favourite key as a result, I'm afraid. It's hard to get excited by brown, isn't it?!) But I'm not sure I sense a colour for every key. I couldn't tell you what D major is, for example. Don't know what's going on there. Maybe I should break out the WTC again and double-check!


----------



## mikeh375

AB+Animal, do you guys see colours as you listen to a piece too, or can you opt not to? Very curious.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

I don't personally - in my case it's actually got more to do with the look of the letters themselves on the page. I get it with numbers too, and that's actually really useful as it helps me memorise them.

There's nowt so strange as folk.


----------



## mikeh375

Animal the Drummer said:


> I don't personally - in my case it's actually got more to do with the look of the letters themselves on the page. I get it with numbers too, and that's actually really useful as it helps me memorise them.
> 
> There's nowt so strange as folk.


Letters? I see you play piano (me too), do you see the colours whilst practising scales or arpeggios perhaps? I don't apart from red perhaps when I'm playing like a donkey.

I've always found Messiaen's descriptions of his music in colour very poetic but ultimately meaningless to anyone with or without synaesthesia.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

No, that whole aspect disappears when the music starts (whether listening or playing). I get it when I see mention of a key on the page, but once the music's begun the only colours I get are musical ones.

That said, my small corner on this does help me to understand to *some* extent what Messiaen has to say.


----------



## Guest002

mikeh375 said:


> AB+Animal, do you guys see colours as you listen to a piece too, or can you opt not to? Very curious.


As I listen: I couldn't tell you what key a piece is in by listening, for example, but if I get a strong yellow sense, I know it's likely to be A major or skirting in and out of it. I can read a piece of music (though I am prone to forget my relative minors!) and not get any sense of colour at all, though. Give me the score of a symphony in C major and I'll see it as black dots on a white page! Play it to me, however, and I will see everything in deep blue tints. If I close my eyes, I will "feel" blue (I don't mean 'feel sad'. I mean 'feel blue'. I have no idea what 'feeling a colour' means, but -for example- I will feel noticeably colder than if I'm feeling orange or yellow).

Since most pieces, if they start in a key at all, tend to wander off all over the place, I soon get lost in a sort-of paisley or tartan effect. It all ends up merging together and turning a sort of 'everything mixed together' taupe colour! But if the harmonic progressions are reasonably simple, I will see (or feel, if I've got my eyes shut) the colours change distinctly as the music progresses. WTC Book 1 C major prelude, for example, is a fairly simple progression of fairly well-defined colours for me.

But generally, I'll only get flashes of colour throughout a piece, depending on if the composer homes in on a key for a while or not. There are lovely flashes and stretches of yellow in Death in Venice, for example.

For myself, it's completely involuntary, so I can't opt out of seeing them if they're going to happen, but they don't happen all the time throughout a complex piece. And if I put a piece of music on in the background so that I'm not concentrating on it at all, I'll probably see nothing at all.

*Edited to add: *I wanted to explain 'feeling' or 'seeing' a colour better, because I certainly don't see blue roses or red skies! The best analogy I can come up with, if you have a smart phone and you switch on 'reading mode' or 'red light' or whatever your particular phone calls it. The phone screen still displays the TV or movie or camera image as it sees it, but it imbues it with a 'warm' or 'reddish' tone. That's sort of what I see/feel. Things are still "normal" to look at, but blueish or yellowish or whatever in *tone*. Alternatively, if you did am-drams at school or wherever, think of sticking one of those spotlight filters in front of your eyes too: you still see everything "normally", but it's somehow coloured in a distinctive way. (For the record, I was Inspector Hound in 'The Real Inspector Hound', and got the opportunity to look through a very green filter one of the lighting bods was trying to install. I can't describe the effect, but apart from everthing turning a shade of emerald, I heard people in E major, too! Most peculiar. I don't mean that their words or coughs or whatever were actually _in_ E major, clearly. Just that I got an overwhelming "sense" of E major at the time I was looking through the filter. Obviously, doing things that way round doesn't happen very often).


----------



## pianolearner

To play, Bb, just because it's usually where I can sing more easily to my voice


----------



## BobBrines

Bright and cheery -- A. Deadly serious -- f.


----------



## mikeh375

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> As I listen: I couldn't tell you what key a piece is in by listening, for example, but if I get a strong yellow sense, I know it's likely to be A major or skirting in and out of it. I can read a piece of music (though I am prone to forget my relative minors!) and not get any sense of colour at all, though. Give me the score of a symphony in C major and I'll see it as black dots on a white page! Play it to me, however, and I will see everything in deep blue tints. If I close my eyes, I will "feel" blue (I don't mean 'feel sad'. I mean 'feel blue'. I have no idea what 'feeling a colour' means, but -for example- I will feel noticeably colder than if I'm feeling orange or yellow).
> 
> Since most pieces, if they start in a key at all, tend to wander off all over the place, I soon get lost in a sort-of paisley or tartan effect. It all ends up merging together and turning a sort of 'everything mixed together' taupe colour! But if the harmonic progressions are reasonably simple, I will see (or feel, if I've got my eyes shut) the colours change distinctly as the music progresses. WTC Book 1 C major prelude, for example, is a fairly simple progression of fairly well-defined colours for me.
> 
> But generally, I'll only get flashes of colour throughout a piece, depending on if the composer homes in on a key for a while or not. There are lovely flashes and stretches of yellow in Death in Venice, for example.
> 
> For myself, it's completely involuntary, so I can't opt out of seeing them if they're going to happen, but they don't happen all the time throughout a complex piece. And if I put a piece of music on in the background so that I'm not concentrating on it at all, I'll probably see nothing at all.
> 
> *Edited to add: *I wanted to explain 'feeling' or 'seeing' a colour better, because I certainly don't see blue roses or red skies! The best analogy I can come up with, if you have a smart phone and you switch on 'reading mode' or 'red light' or whatever your particular phone calls it. The phone screen still displays the TV or movie or camera image as it sees it, but it imbues it with a 'warm' or 'reddish' tone. That's sort of what I see/feel. Things are still "normal" to look at, but blueish or yellowish or whatever in *tone*. Alternatively, if you did am-drams at school or wherever, think of sticking one of those spotlight filters in front of your eyes too: you still see everything "normally", but it's somehow coloured in a distinctive way. (For the record, I was Inspector Hound in 'The Real Inspector Hound', and got the opportunity to look through a very green filter one of the lighting bods was trying to install. I can't describe the effect, but apart from everthing turning a shade of emerald, I heard people in E major, too! Most peculiar. I don't mean that their words or coughs or whatever were actually _in_ E major, clearly. Just that I got an overwhelming "sense" of E major at the time I was looking through the filter. Obviously, doing things that way round doesn't happen very often).


Fascinating AB, thanks for that. Having shown willing, I'm going to now ply you with more questions if I may.
Do you think you are describing a severe, regular or mild form of synaesthesia? It certainly sounds dramatic at times. So 'reality', the actual things you are looking at and see, become tinged, tinted, filtered. Have you had this since your early years? If so was it quite worrying for the younger AB? The mind boggles as to how one hears talking via a major key.

I can see how colour would easily resonate with Britten's language as he was obviously a composer who worked within tonality, albeit in extended form, but I'm wondering how it affects you when you listen to music less reliant on the maj/min system. Would you just see a murky brown perhaps if synaesthesia takes hold? Colour theory associates emotions to colour so do you see/feel a correlation in the music, and it's mood with the 'correct' colours according to generally accepted associations in the theory or is it a more unique and individual interpretation? Do you think that the synaesthesia influences how you feel about a new piece or can you separate the notes from the colour so to speak and still form a subjective opinion without? Once again, sorry for all the questions, but I do find it fascinating and hope I'm not probing in a manner you might deem too personal.

I remember you met Messiaen in your job as paymaster (?) at the RFH. When he asked for the greenbacks, did he ask in E major and what key did you pay him in?... ...


----------



## Guest002

mikeh375 said:


> Fascinating AB, thanks for that. Having shown willing, I'm going to now ply you with more questions if I may.
> Do you think you are describing a severe, regular or mild form of synaesthesia? It certainly sounds dramatic at times. So 'reality', the actual things you are looking at and see, become tinged, tinted, filtered. Have you had this since your early years? If so was it quite worrying for the younger AB? The mind boggles as to how one hears talking via a major key.


Well, that's an interesting question. We didn't have much by way of music at home when I was growing up. The radio was generally tuned to Radio 4 or The World Service. We had a Dansette record player that was occasionally used to play my elder sisters' old 1950s/60s popular songs (until I dismantled it in a fit of technical exploration and found that, aged 5, I lacked the skills needed to put it back together again!). So I couldn't really tell you if it was present back then (except that I remember some 45s had very brightly-coloured central labels and perhaps that's where I first got the association from?)

I noticed it only when I began singing in school choirs -and even then, only when I got into a serious school choir that sang the likes of Vivaldi, Britten and Orff. I could tell if someone in another part of the choir was out of tune, because they would _look_ different and stand out from the consistently-hued background of their colleagues. It got more developed as time went on, so that by the time I was singing in college chapel and cathedral choirs, it was always a colourful experience.

No, this didn't worry me. I lacked perfect pitch, which always annoyed me a lot, but this sort of helped make up for that somehow. I generally didn't tell anyone about it, however, because it sounds odd and I didn't want to be certified and locked away! So, I guess that part of it was a bit of a worry. Not the experience itself, but what people would think of _me_ if I described those experiences.



mikeh375 said:


> I can see how colour would easily resonate with Britten's language as he was obviously a composer who worked within tonality, albeit in extended form, but I'm wondering how it affects you when you listen to music less reliant on the maj/min system. Would you just see a murky brown perhaps if synaesthesia takes hold?


Yes, as I mentioned: everything just becomes taupe (which I think a lot of people would just call 'beige'!). It's really just a neutral density filter: eEssentially, everything looks as normal as it would do with no music present, but perhaps a little dimmer?



mikeh375 said:


> Colour theory associates emotions to colour so do you see/feel a correlation in the music, and it's mood with the 'correct' colours according to generally accepted associations in the theory or is it a more unique and individual interpretation?


I've never really thought about it that way, to be honest. I've mentioned I feel cooler when a piece is 'blue', so there is that sort of physical reaction, but I've never really associated colours with emotions in the way you mention. I suppose, thinking about it only now, maybe I find A major a jollier sort of key than C major, because yellow is jolly and blue is dark, possibly dangerous. But how many pieces start blue and stay blue? Not many. So most pieces will be experienced as a bit of a kaleidoscope of colorus, not as one particular hue.

So, it's not something I've ever paused to think about really, because you rarely get a 'one-colour' piece of music, so there's seldom an opportunity to associate a specific emotion with a piece in that way.

Hence, I would say that my pleasure in music is derived from the music, not the colour(s) it might invoke, nor any emotional state that might be associated with those colours.



mikeh375 said:


> Do you think that the synaesthesia influences how you feel about a new piece or can you separate the notes from the colour so to speak and still form a subjective opinion without?


Definitely the latter. It will be the rhythms, the tunes, the subtleties of orchestration, the raw emotion it stimulates, the sense of the Godly it might invoke (if we're talking Bach!), how much it makes me want to get up and dance (if we're talking Bach again!) not any colours that it might trigger. I think at the end of a new piece, I might say to myself, 'I feel that comes across as quite purple, or bright orange' or something, but it would be an overall impression, and a secondary thing by way of a concluding 'feel' about a piece, not a primary means by which to appreciate it or try to understand it, if that makes sense.

But that might just be me: I am useless at art (i.e., painting) and if you walk me around a gallery, I can quite readily say "I like that one, or that one, but dislike that one". But it definitely won't be an informed criticism of the art or its content at all. From long years of introspection, I know that my appreciation of fine art is almost entirely a matter of a physically-felt response to the colours it contains. Either the colours clash excitingly, or they blend subtly, or whatever it might be. But it's always the colour that gets me to like or dislike a picture: all that chiaroscuro stuff, or the fineness of a line, just passes me by, I'm afraid. I remember my first-ever trip to Amsterdam: I was very keen to see the Night Watch in the Rijksmuseum. When I finally stood in front of it, all I could feel was a lot of "meh!". It was one of the biggest let-downs of my life! For it turns out to be just a largely-monochrome (genius!) study in light and shade, and that never works for me and paintings! I can _force_ myself to admire the subtleties of a picture, as an intellectual exercise, but if it lacks colour, I'll never really like it much.

So that's interesting to me now that you ask, because on the one hand my reaction to fine art is almost _entirely_ shaped by my perception of colour, but my reaction to music is usually all about its inner details and workings, not its colour-effect. I hadn't realised the stark contradiction before now, to be honest.

I wonder what that all means?!



mikeh375 said:


> Once again, sorry for all the questions, but I do find it fascinating and hope I'm not probing in a manner you might deem too personal.
> 
> I remember you met Messiaen in your job as paymaster (?) at the RFH. When he asked for the greenbacks, did he ask in E major and what key did you pay him in?... ...


No problem with the questions. I have never really mentioned this to anyone before, because as I say, I didn't want to be thought odd or certifiable. But I'm now not working and I'm old enough, finally, not to need to care what others think!

Chief Cashier at the RFH (sounds grander than it was: it was mostly counting the previous night's takings and banking them). I always paid him in £50 notes, fetched fresh in a taxi from some bank or other in the city. He was rather insistent on them!


----------



## mikeh375

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Well, that's an interesting question. We didn't have much by way of music at home when I was growing up. The radio was generally tuned to Radio 4 or The World Service. We had a Dansette record player that was occasionally used to play my elder sisters' old 1950s/60s popular songs (until I dismantled it in a fit of technical exploration and found that, aged 5, I lacked the skills needed to put it back together again!). So I couldn't really tell you if it was present back then (except that I remember some 45s had very brightly-coloured central labels and perhaps that's where I first got the association from?)
> 
> I noticed it only when I began singing in school choirs -and even then, only when I got into a serious school choir that sang the likes of Vivaldi, Britten and Orff. I could tell if someone in another part of the choir was out of tune, because they would _look_ different and stand out from the consistently-hued background of their colleagues. It got more developed as time went on, so that by the time I was singing in college chapel and cathedral choirs, it was always a colourful experience.
> 
> No, this didn't worry me. I lacked perfect pitch, which always annoyed me a lot, but this sort of helped make up for that somehow. I generally didn't tell anyone about it, however, because it sounds odd and I didn't want to be certified and locked away! So, I guess that part of it was a bit of a worry. Not the experience itself, but what people would think of _me_ if I described those experiences.
> 
> Yes, as I mentioned: everything just becomes taupe (which I think a lot of people would just call 'beige'!). It's really just a neutral density filter: eEssentially, everything looks as normal as it would do with no music present, but perhaps a little dimmer?
> 
> I've never really thought about it that way, to be honest. I've mentioned I feel cooler when a piece is 'blue', so there is that sort of physical reaction, but I've never really associated colours with emotions in the way you mention. I suppose, thinking about it only now, maybe I find A major a jollier sort of key than C major, because yellow is jolly and blue is dark, possibly dangerous. But how many pieces start blue and stay blue? Not many. So most pieces will be experienced as a bit of a kaleidoscope of colorus, not as one particular hue.
> 
> So, it's not something I've ever paused to think about really, because you rarely get a 'one-colour' piece of music, so there's seldom an opportunity to associate a specific emotion with a piece in that way.
> 
> Hence, I would say that my pleasure in music is derived from the music, not the colour(s) it might invoke, nor any emotional state that might be associated with those colours.
> 
> Definitely the latter. It will be the rhythms, the tunes, the subtleties of orchestration, the raw emotion it stimulates, the sense of the Godly it might invoke (if we're talking Bach!), how much it makes me want to get up and dance (if we're talking Bach again!) not any colours that it might trigger. I think at the end of a new piece, I might say to myself, 'I feel that comes across as quite purple, or bright orange' or something, but it would be an overall impression, and a secondary thing by way of a concluding 'feel' about a piece, not a primary means by which to appreciate it or try to understand it, if that makes sense.
> 
> But that might just be me: I am useless at art (i.e., painting) and if you walk me around a gallery, I can quite readily say "I like that one, or that one, but dislike that one". But it definitely won't be an informed criticism of the art or its content at all. From long years of introspection, I know that my appreciation of fine art is almost entirely a matter of a physically-felt response to the colours it contains. Either the colours clash excitingly, or they blend subtly, or whatever it might be. But it's always the colour that gets me to like or dislike a picture: all that chiaroscuro stuff, or the fineness of a line, just passes me by, I'm afraid. I remember my first-ever trip to Amsterdam: I was very keen to see the Night Watch in the Rijksmuseum. When I finally stood in front of it, all I could feel was a lot of "meh!". It was one of the biggest let-downs of my life! For it turns out to be just a largely-monochrome (genius!) study in light and shade, and that never works for me and paintings! I can _force_ myself to admire the subtleties of a picture, as an intellectual exercise, but if it lacks colour, I'll never really like it much.
> 
> So that's interesting to me now that you ask, because on the one hand my reaction to fine art is almost _entirely_ shaped by my perception of colour, but my reaction to music is usually all about its inner details and workings, not its colour-effect. I hadn't realised the stark contradiction before now, to be honest.
> 
> I wonder what that all means?!
> 
> No problem with the questions. I have never really mentioned this to anyone before, because as I say, I didn't want to be thought odd or certifiable. But I'm now not working and I'm old enough, finally, not to need to care what others think!
> 
> Chief Cashier at the RFH (sounds grander than it was: it was mostly counting the previous night's takings and banking them). I always paid him in £50 notes, fetched fresh in a taxi from some bank or other in the city. He was rather insistent on them!


I really appreciate that AB. Thank you for a great and fascinating insight into the condition (is that an appropriate label?).

As I was reading, another question formed. One can see that pitch may have considerable bearing on your synaesthesia, but you haven't mentioned timbre. Do you think that has a bearing? Have you ever 'seen' the brassiness of a trumpet or perhaps a muted secondary colour in a bassoon solo irrespective of the key/notes? Perhaps you can't distinguish to that extent, or the only generator of colour is pitches and their acoustic/tuning properties. 
I may be reaching too far here, but if one could let you hear say a bright C major chord that was scored in many different ways - in timbre and even dynamically - do you think you might perceive C majors colour differently?

Apologies to the OP for my continuing digression.


----------



## Guest002

mikeh375 said:


> I really appreciate that AB. Thank you for a great and fascinating insight into the condition (is that an appropriate label?).
> 
> As I was reading, another question formed. One can see that pitch may have considerable bearing on your synaesthesia, but you haven't mentioned timbre. Do you think that has a bearing? Have you ever 'seen' the brassiness of a trumpet or perhaps a muted secondary colour in a bassoon solo irrespective of the key/notes? Perhaps you can't distinguish to that extent, or the only generator of colour is pitches and their acoustic/tuning properties.
> I may be reaching too far here, but if one could let you hear say a bright C major chord that was scored in many different ways - in timbre and even dynamically - do you think you might perceive C majors colour differently?
> 
> Apologies to the OP for my continuing digression.


You know when you do a V-I cadence, there's that great sense of 'coming home'? It doesn't particularly matter what key you're in, does it, to get that feeling? So long as it's V-I in some key or other. Same thing for me and my weirdness: the instrumentation doesn't affect the sense of 'blue' or 'green' or whatever. It's the C major-ness that determines the colour, not the use of flutes v. bassoons, or violins v. celeste, etc. Perhaps that's why it's not the colour that determines my enjoyment of a piece, for all those other elements -instrumentation, dynamics- are much more important to my eventual assessment of a piece that any passing colours it may have sparked.


----------

