# Proto-Psychedlia



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Bob Lind Elusive Butterfly 1966 Stereo

I think this guy might have had a reefer somewhere in his past, my friend in the police force tells me it's probably the case.

Anyone know any pre-1966 bigger hits that show a leaning towards "surrealism" and abstractness that show a leaning to psychedlia?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

1st comment: *"Proto-Psychedlia"*?

You misspelled Psychedelia.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

regenmusic said:


> Bob Lind Elusive Butterfly 1966 Stereo
> 
> I think this guy might have had a reefer somewhere in his past, my friend in the police force tells me it's probably the case.
> 
> Anyone know any pre-1966 bigger hits that show a leaning towards "surrealism" and abstractness that show a leaning to psychedlia?


To my ears, musically it smacks more of sweetened Folk Pop (sweetened meaning syrupy strings added so the old folks will like it).

Lyrically there's some very nice poetic phraseology that later became a staple of psychedelia genre music

Here's some real proto-psychedelia from February 1966 . . . A band named The Great Society, with Grace Slick providing vocals, husband Jerry Slick on drums, and brother-in-law Darby Slick on guitar

Darby Slick wrote this song, and when Grace jumped ship, she took this song with her to Jefferson Airplane.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

*The Great Society* also performed this one in 1966 . . . a little song called _*White Rabbit*_, which Grace wrote - that's Grace playing the melodica


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

I grew up in that era. Psychedelic rock was one of my fave genres back then. Never in my wildest dreams would I connect _Elusive Butterfly_ with Psychedelia.

_Rain_ by The Beatles - check
_Good Vibrations_ by the Beach Boys - check
_Take A Giant Step_ by Goffin and King - check

We thought _Elusive Butterfly_ was kinda popish! And, outside the weird lyrics, the song doesn't feature any Psychedelic effects...just a bunch of violins.

There isnt a whole lot of Psychedelia prior to 66.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

My confused memories hark back to 1966 and










Mr. Owsley would not call this"proto-psychedelia".


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If only because of its exotic-sounding drone effect I would nominate _See My Friends_ by the Kinks, released in the summer of 1965 and a top ten hit in the UK. Some might consider _Heart Full of Soul_ by the Yardbirds but that just sounds like a typical Brit-beat song to me (albeit a very good one). Obviously the further one goes back from 1966 the more tenuous the psych connection but I can't think of a UK hit single from before _See My Friends_ which could possibly be considered as a kind of precursor - and as the Kinks never went on to become a psychedelic band I don't think it was ever intended to be one.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The Byrds: Eight Miles High...




Mr. Tambourine Man, by Mr. Dylan...


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

Released in 1966


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

*Proto-Psychedeliaj*

How about Pat Kilroy ?
3 or 4 tracks off the lp ,"Light of Day"


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Room2201974 said:


> I grew up in that era. Psychedelic rock was one of my fave genres back then. Never in my wildest dreams would I connect _Elusive Butterfly_ with Psychedelia.
> 
> _Rain_ by The Beatles - check
> _Good Vibrations_ by the Beach Boys - check
> ...


True. I'll peg the start of Psychedelia at 1964. Sure, you can find anomalous forays into some of the elements prior to that, but 1964 when several artists started dabbling in it simultaneously.

If I had to point to a 'beginning', I'd be tempted to reluctantly give it to *The Holy Modal Rounders* and their their 1964 version of Lead Belly's *'Hesitation Blues'*

If it weren't for folk guitarist *Sandy Bull*'s 1963 album *Fantasias for Guitar and Banjo*.

Bull explores various styles, including elements, and a fusion, of folk, jazz, and Indian and Arabic-influenced dronish modes, and could be described as one of the very first psychedelic records.

Side one of that album - one single track titled *Blend*, broken into two parts for YouTube (the whole piece takes up 22 minutes)


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

August 1963 -	Sandy Bull -Fantasias for Guitar and Banjo LP

1964 – The Holy Modal Rounders - Hesitation Blues

March 1965 – Bob Dylan – Mr. Tambourine Man
April 1965 – The Byrds – Mr. Tambourine Man
June 1965 – The Yardbirds – Heart Full of Soul
July 1965 – The Kinks – See My Friends
November 1965 - Bob Lind – Elusive Butterfly

February 1966 – The Great Society – Somebody to Love
March 1966 – The Byrds – Eight Miles High
May 1966 – The Beatles - Rain 
July 1966 – The Monkees – Take a Giant Step
August 1966 – The Beatles – Tomorrow Never Knows (recorded in April)
August 1966 – Jefferson Airplane – Takes Off LP
September 1966 – Donavan – Sunshine Superman LP
October 1966 – The Beach Boys – Good Vibrations
October 1966 – Pat Kilroy – Light of Day LP
1966 – The Great Society – White Rabbit


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

Sure "8 miles High" has eastern moves, but it should be noted the "high" was an airplane trip.

...
I think "Hesitation Blues" was the first time the word "psychedelic" comes into the lyrics.

...........
I fail to see the relevance of "Tambourine Man" here. Can someone elucidate?

Also Jeff. Airplane "Takes Off" - nothing remotely psych there. Just an average boring lp. (I was so happy to snag a very nice copy. Then I played it. Got rid immediately.)


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

The first psychedelic lp was The Deep.
That being, you cannot have any proto-psych AFTER The Deep's release date of December 31, 1965.


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

Yardbirds "Shape of Things To Come" .
25 February 1966, but RECORDED Dec 1965


Not to be confused with the track by the fabricated group ,Max Frost and The Troopers (credited as the group "13th Power" on the 1968 expoitation film, "Wild in the Streets")


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Onslow said:


> I fail to see the relevance of "*Tambourine Man*" here. Can someone elucidate?
> 
> Also *Jeff. Airplane "Takes Off"* - nothing remotely psych there. Just an average boring lp. (I was so happy to snag a very nice copy. Then I played it. Got rid immediately.)


*Strange Magic* mentioned *Mr. Tambourine Man*, so I included as I didn't want to judge. Maybe ask him/her.

Dylan's lyrics could qualify it, and the Byrds cover is kind of 'stoney', especially with the electric 12-string guitar. Remember, at this early stage, we're only talking 'elements' of Psychedelic Folk, Rock, and Pop, or Proto-Psychedelia. And they came out within a couple of months of each other.

_*Take me on a trip upon your magic swirling ship
My senses have been stripped . . . 
*_

.

*KenOC* mentioned *Jefferson Airplane - Takes Off*, but DID follow it up with the comment, "Mr. Owsley would not call this"*proto-psychedelia*".", so I suppose it made it onto my list mistakenly. I haven't heard it, so cannot say whether or not it deserves a spot on the list, or why.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Onslow said:


> The first psychedelic lp was The Deep.
> That being, you cannot have any proto-psych AFTER The Deep's release date of December 31, 1965.


You're referring to *The Deep*'s first and only album *Psychedelic Moods*, released *October 1966* (recorded August 19-20, 1966) on a budget of $1,200.

It was a little late to the party.

I might point out that _*Psychedelic Moods*_' thunder was stolen by *? and the Mysterians* releasing *96 Tears* in August 1966 ON THE SAME RECORD LABEL (Cameo-Parkway), which reached #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 in the U.S. 96 Tears was written in 1962, and is also one of the first proto-punk, or garage band albums.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

to me stuff like this sounds very psychedelic

Jim Wolfe and the "T-Towners": "Innersanctum" (1964)





I'd say also that some jazz (like certain things made by Sun Ra) already had a psychedelic vein

Friendly Galaxy (1965, but there are certainly earlier examples)





and I'd mention also this 1963 rendition of She moved through the fair that becomes due to the indian influence in She moved through the bizarre

Davey Graham - She moved through the bizarre





and talking of jazz, I've always thought that Red Norvo's Dance of the octopus (recorded in 1933) is already psychedelic music. Here the musicians capture the spirit perfectly:


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

pianozach said:


> You're referring to *The Deep*'s first and only album *Psychedelic Moods*, released *October 1966* (recorded August 19-20, 1966) on a budget of $1,200.


You know, on another forum I was corrected about the date of release. I was given this info:

"ABKCO Music & Records, Inc. (ABKCO acronym of Allen & Betty Klein and COmpany) founded in 1961.

"The Deep" released "Psychedelic Moods" (24 tracks, 58 minuntes, 58 seconds) on the ABKCO label on December 31, 1965.

Album release information is on Tidal"


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

I don't know about the Davey Graham. 
He spent time in Morocco (or some part of North Africa) and learned the scales, so some of his output certainly counts for early RAGAROCK (along with, say, The Spikedrivers.)
It depends on how much you think ragarock lead towards psych.

Just ntpicking...I suppose Graham IS a proper contender.
Hard call ...on a rather difficult subject.


One thing for sure. That rendition of "She moved through the fair" is astounding.(Just so happens I was listening to it a month back.)


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Onslow said:


> You know, on another forum I was corrected about the date of release. I was given this info:
> 
> "ABKCO Music & Records, Inc. (ABKCO acronym of Allen & Betty Klein and COmpany) founded in 1961.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely incorrect - The Deep released "Psychedelic Moods (A Mind Expanding Phenomena)" in October of 1966 on 
Parkway ‎- Catalog number SP-7051.

Parkway started in 1958 as a subsidiary of Cameo Records. Later became bankrupt and sold to Allen Klein in 1967 and both Parkway and Cameo became ABKCO Records.

Mono version is P-7051.

First mention in Billboard under "New Album Releases" Billboard 26 Nov 1966 page 74.

2nd mention in Billboard promoting "FOUR STAR ALBUMS" including Psychedelic Moods, Billboard 3 Dec 1966 page 65.









Link to complete album -

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL92FqqwK7NR2cfFmcozgygZMQv5RFkLAq

Tracklist

Color Dreams	2:59
Pink Ether	2:01
When Rain Is Black	2:13
It's All A Part Of Me	2:51
Turned On	2:15
Psychedelic Moon	2:43
Shadows On The Wall	3:12
Crystal Nite	1:31
Trip #76	2:15
Wake Up And Find Me	2:22
Your Choice To Choose	1:53
On Off - Off On	2:24


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Onslow said:


> *Yardbirds "Shape of Things To Come"* .
> 25 February 1966, but RECORDED Dec 1965
> 
> Not to be confused with the track by the fabricated group ,Max Frost and The Troopers (credited as the group "13th Power" on the 1968 expoitation film, "Wild in the Streets")


Two different song titles...

The Yardbirds recorded "*Shapes of Things*" written by Jim McCarty, Keith Relf, and Paul Samwell-Smith.

Max Frost and the Troopers recorded "*Shape of Things to Com**e*" written by Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil.


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

Correct.
Sorry about that.
And to think I was just playing that "Wild in Streets" soundtrack the other week!


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

Correct.
Sorry about that.
And to think I was just playing that "Wild in Streets" soundtrack the other week!


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Onslow said:


> I don't know about the Davey Graham.
> He spent time in Morocco (or some part of North Africa) and learned the scales, so some of his output certainly counts for early RAGAROCK (along with, say, The Spikedrivers.)
> It depends on how much you think ragarock lead towards psych.
> 
> ...


"Writing for Crawdaddy! in December 1966, Sandy Pearlman traced the origins of raga rock to folk music, specifically the drone-producing guitar tunings which American folk musician Sandy Bull had been incorporating into his music since 1963. More recently, Chapman and author John Schaefer have both noted that English folk guitarist Davey Graham's raga-tinged arrangement of the Irish ballad "She Moved Through the Fair", from 1963's From a London Hootenanny EP, predated the raga rock experimentation of 1960s rock groups by two years."

Music researcher William Echard states that "Heart Full of Soul" by the Yardbirds, which was released in June 1965, "is frequently cited as a key text in starting the trend" towards incorporating Indian-inspired elements in rock music. An Indian sitarist and a tabla player accompanied the Yardbirds on a demo recording of the song, but only the tabla part was deemed usable. Instead, Jeff Beck emulated the sitar figure, tone, and accompanying drone on the electric guitar for the master recording. The song reached number 2 on the UK chart and number 9 in the US.

Author Andy Miller says that the sub-genre's widespread popularity was preceded by the July 1965 release of "See My Friends", a top-ten single in the UK for the Kinks. Written by Ray Davies and inspired by a visit to India, the song used guitar to imitate the drone produced by an Indian tambura.[ Music historian Andrew Grant Jackson writes that Davies' "vocal whine and drone lend his voice an Indian quality".

Before either of these examples, the Beatles' April 1965 single "Ticket to Ride", which was number 1 in many countries around the world, featured a melody that author Ian MacDonald terms "raga-like" over a subtle Indian drone produced by electric guitars."

Writing in 1997, Bellman commented that the Yardbirds and Kinks recordings were often overlooked in discussions of raga rock's origins, as history instead highlighted the Beatles' "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)". Issued in December 1965 on the band's Rubber Soul album, the folk-styled "Norwegian Wood" was the first Western pop song to incorporate the sitar, which was played by lead guitarist George Harrison, and the first to feature Indian instrumentation played by a rock musician. The song's popularity inspired a wave of interest in the sitar and Indian sounds, a phenomenon that Shankar later called "the great sitar explosion". According to authors Nicholas Schaffner and Bernard Gendron, raga rock was inaugurated by the release of "Norwegian Wood".


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_music

"Psychedelic music emerged during the 1960's among folk and rock bands in the United States and the United Kingdom, creating the subgenres of psychedelic folk, psychedelic rock, acid rock, and psychedelic pop before declining in the early 1970's.

Numerous spiritual successors followed in the ensuing decades, including progressive rock, krautrock, and heavy metal. Since the 1970's, revivals have included psychedelic funk, neo-psychedelia, stoner rock and psychedelic hip hop, as well as psychedelic electronic music genres such as acid house, trance music, and new rave."

"The History of Psychedelic Music" would be an interesting thread if someone was inclined to pursue it...


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

pianozach said:


> *Strange Magic* mentioned *Mr. Tambourine Man*, so I included as I didn't want to judge. *Maybe ask him/her.*
> 
> Dylan's lyrics could qualify it, and the Byrds cover is kind of 'stoney', especially with the electric 12-string guitar. Remember, at this early stage, we're only talking 'elements' of Psychedelic Folk, Rock, and Pop, or Proto-Psychedelia. And they came out within a couple of months of each other.
> 
> ...


Strange Magic is most definitely a "him"...

"While there has been speculation that the song ("Mr. Tambourine Man) is about drugs, particularly with lines such as "take me on a trip upon your magic swirling ship" and "the smoke rings of my mind", Dylan has denied the song is about drugs. Though he was smoking marijuana at the time the song was written, Dylan was not introduced to LSD until a few months later.

Outside of drug speculation, the song has been interpreted as a call to the singer's spirit or muse, or as a search for transcendence. In particular, biographer John Hinchey has suggested in his book _Like a Complete Unknown _that the singer is praying to his muse for inspiration; Hinchey notes that ironically the song itself is evidence the muse has already provided the sought-after inspiration. The figure of Mr. Tambourine Man has sometimes been interpreted as a symbol for Jesus or the Pied Piper of Hamelin. The song may also reference gospel music themes, with Mr. Tambourine Man being the bringer of religious salvation."


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## Onslow (Apr 11, 2020)

Anyone here wealthy enough to have the Morton Jack book?


It would be interesting to see what release date for The Deep lp is in there.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Onslow said:


> Anyone here wealthy enough to have the Morton Jack book?
> 
> It would be interesting to see what release date for The Deep lp is in there.


Don't have "Endless Trip" but this is what is listed in the wikipedia article -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_Moods

Psychedelic Moods is the debut album by the American psychedelic rock band, The Deep, and was *released on Cameo-Parkway Records in October 1966 *(see 1966 in music). The album was one of the first pieces to produce a consistent psychedelic theme throughout the whole LP. All of the material featured was originally composed by the band. Despite the conflicting dates, it is generally considered the first album to use the term "psychedelic" in its title.

While the exact release date of the album has yet to be definitively established, the record is *generally considered to have been distributed in October 1966, based on the album's catalogue number. *This would credit it as the first official album to include the word "psychedelic" in its title, pre-dating the Blues Magoos' debut, Psychedelic Lollipop, and The 13th Floor Elevators' debut album, The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators. The Deep's Psychedelic Moods did not sell well, and the group did not tour to support it. They existed as a studio-only band, and, aside from sessions for their album, produced no other recordings under that name.[


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Onslow said:


> You know, on another forum I was corrected about the date of release. I was given this info:
> 
> "ABKCO Music & Records, Inc. (ABKCO acronym of Allen & Betty Klein and COmpany) founded in 1961.
> 
> ...


Well, how 'bout *that*?

I can find no source online that backs up that date. Even went to the ABKCO website (which has no entry for it at all surprisingly). Every place I found gives a 1966 date, many specifically mentioning October, and others being even more specific to pinpoint it at October 25, 1966 (although "rateyourmusic" lists November).

There's a 2014 article in Esquire with the following paragraph that gives the album some historical context:

_In the early summer of 1966, musician-artist Rusty Evans pitched producer-songwriter Mark Barkan with the idea of doing the first psychedelic album. Timothy Leary had just made LSD famous, so they thought this was the perfect time to produce an album aimed at recreating an acid trip. Evans tried LSD and found it to be enjoyable. So he got lyrics from a writer who wrote on acid. Barkan recruited an acid-dropping, flute-playing guitarist he knew from the Army and Evans hired a guitarist friend from Greenwich Village. The result: The Deep, a motley group that spent four days in a Philadelphia studio producing what Barkan claims is the first psychedelic album by name (and possibly by sound), Psychedelic Moods._

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/music/a27725/the-deep-psychedelic-moods/

psychedelic-rocknroll.blogspot has an interesting paragraph regarding the release though, pegging the release date to "late October 1966" based on the catalog numbers: *Cameo Parkway, SP-7051 for Stereo, and P-7051 for Mono, 1966*:

_Depending on the date, this may be the first LP with the word 'Psychedelic' in the title.
While the exact release date of the album has yet to be definitively established, the record (Cameo Parkway, SP-7051 for Stereo, and P-7051 for Mono, 1966) most likely had been shipped to stores by late October 1966, based on the known release dates and catalogue numbers of other "Cameo-Parkway Records" albums.

https://psychedelic-rocknroll.blogspot.com/2009/04/the-deep-psychedelic-moods-first.html

Here's a screenshot of the back of the album cover of the original album, which mentions the record label (Cameo Parkway Records Inc.) several times.









The front of the album also has the "CP" (Cameo Parkway) logo on the cover as well.

_
I think that your 'corrector' may possibly be mistaken. All sources make no mention of ABKCO nor 1965.

The only tie-in I can find between *ABKCO* and *The Deep*'s *Psychedelic Moods* is *? and the Mysterians*, who released their first single, *96 Tears* (as well as their next 5 singles and two LPs), on *Cameo-Parkway*. The band recorded that first single for the small *Pa-Go-Go* label, owned by Lilly Gonzalez. She backed the band financially, and allowed access to her personal studio in her basement. When it began doing well locally, the band took a recording to Bob Dell, the radio director in Flint, Michigan. The song became the most requested, and wider radio play spread into Canada, where it was picked up by *Cameo Records* for national distribution.

In 1968, *Cameo-Parkway*, was shut down for stock manipulation by the Securities and Exchange Commission, taking the band's money and contract with them.

In October 2005 a compilation CD, *The Best of ? and the Mysterians - Cameo Parkway 1966-1967*, on the *ABKCO* label.

The two bands shared a record label, and almost 40 years later ABKCO later ended up with the rights to release *? and the Mysterians*' material. And as *Duncan* pointed out, ABKCO ended up with the Cameo Parkway catalog.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

pianozach said:


> Well, how 'bout *that*?
> 
> *I can find no source online that backs up that date.
> *


The online "source" can be found here (second post from the bottom of the page) -

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/psychedelic-get-down-party

A dubious quote from a dubious poster on one of the most dubious of forums...

It's the type of forum in which one can make up any statement one wants however improbable or outlandish without fear of contradiction because no one there knows enough about anything to provide a (relatively) coherent counter-argument...

First-rate post, Zach - :tiphat:


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