# Obsession to Own Everything



## scratchgolf

When starting a collection, whether music, wine, books, etc., many people tend to choose quantity over quality. They want every shelf filled or wine slot to contain a bottle. As their tastes change (and financial situations) they may find themselves replacing "filler" with things they truly want. Often this can become an obsession of sorts and eventually the need to collect can supersede one's ability to enjoy. I've also noticed people refer to themselves as obsessive of OCD and treat it as a badge of honor. Even those who are not, as if it's a choice and a noble pursuit. 

As I build my collection of Classical Music, I'm discovering some troubling trends. My "need" to constantly expand my collection and seek out new material is greatly affecting my enjoyment. At this rate, I'll die before I become familiar with everything I own. While it's nice to learn about a highly recommended piece, only to find out I own it and can listen immediately, it's making it difficult to me to appreciate new selections, or even give them their proper due. Subsequently, I find myself returning to my safety zone all too often. I've been working on a spreadsheet to assist me with what I own, what I want, and what I prefer, but anyone who's been down this road knows it's impossible to get it right and much time gets wasted in the trivial pursuit of a perfect system. 

Much of this is based in fear: a fear of missing out on something or losing something. I know my fear comes from my line of work and being surrounded by death and loss for so long. The uncertainty of tomorrow creates the need to accomplish everything today. Unfortunately, this creates a very overwhelming feeling of powerlessness. I've considered selecting 2 composers each month and listening to only their works, while cataloging my results and findings. This usually lasts less than a day, as something pops up and intrigues me more. I keep telling myself I'll find a stopping point and settle in with the music I own. This is the mantra of the obsessive-compulsive. 

While I'm not sure how relevant this is as a topic, I am curious if anyone has similar tendencies or experiences. Perhaps it will be buried by a few more "Mozart vs Bob Dylan" threads and I'll go about my business.


----------



## Neo Romanza

Quite an interesting idea for a thread. 

The way I view this is there are far worse things one can buy than recordings. Collecting CDs, for example, is a perfectly harmless hobby and, in most cases, the collector is passionate about what they collect anyway, so this can never be viewed as a bad thing IMHO. Where it can become troublesome is when this person who collects feels that they have to own everything. That, to me, defeats the whole purpose of collecting, but, in many cases, these people, like myself, are attracted to only a specific genre or era of music. I'm passionate about late-19th and early to mid 20th Century music. Of course, I don't just buy recordings from every composer from these periods as that would be truly insane. If I become interested in a composer, I'll sample some of their music from Spotify or YouTube and if I like what I hear, I'll investigate and probably purchase some recordings. I also consider the performances themselves. There are a lot of mediocre performances of say Shostakovich's _Symphony No. 5_ for example, so I usually try and sample a movement or two from whatever recording I'm interested in at that moment. Online reviews don't always give a recording justice as, like anything, it's subjective. If I enjoy something, then it doesn't matter to me what someone else says about the recording or even the composer. But I never agreed with someone who just buys something to have it. That defeats the whole purpose of enjoying your collection and getting something out of it. The idea is fulfillment from the music itself, not how many CDs are on your shelves.

This said, I do have a large collection of recordings, but this affords me the opportunity to pull anything from my collection at any given time that I want to hear and listen to it on the spot. This is what's great about about having a large collection. As I said, if you're buying 20 recordings all by the same composer 'just to have them,' then that's not a healthy outlook. The idea is to hear the music and if you never even get to it, so be it. It's not the end of the world, no crime was committed. We are always evolving as listeners and your collection will reflect this in the end.


----------



## SixFootScowl

I have 30 different performances of Beethoven's Ninth and only listen to one of them. I have all of Beethoven's piano sonatas but rarely listen to them now (or any piano). I have obsessed intensely in certain areas of music. My current obsession is the opera Fidelio, but I am not buying up different performances (after an initial spree of several sets). I think that fortunately I have found my favorite performance early in the buying craze and so can let go. It also gets very complicated and frustrating trying to compare multiple performances of a work. Now I want to simply learn all I can about Fidelio and am reading multiple books (buying multiple books, oh there my obsession is still here, just very focused) and learning all about the work, it's development history, etc. This focused obsession is making this one wonderful work more and more wonderful to me. So I am thinking one may want to focus on a select set of great musical works of personal appeal and get to know them intimately. 

As for other obsessive collections, I probably have 1000s of Hot Wheels/Matchbox cars stashed in my basement. I went through a phase when the kids were small where I would go to the store and come back with 40 or 50 cars sometimes.

Ha! How about motor oil? I have about 180 quarts in my cellar. It was on sale half price one month and I went to about eight Advance Auto stores buying up all the 5w30 NextGen Maxlife. I have enough motor oil to last me about 7-10 years!


----------



## scratchgolf

Often I'll read a post here that says, "I'm listening to ____'s __th Symphony. It's just so beautiful!" I want so badly to share in that beauty that I'll purchase it. Then I worry if his ___st Symphony is better than his ___th. Then I'll buy the entire cycle. Then I'll listen for 10 minutes and get both disappointed and frustrated. I feel like a swiss cheese bag trying to hold water.


----------



## Weston

I once read that the need to collect is a subconscious desire to control. If one has a complete collection of something, one feels more in control of at least that one thing. But it can be insidious. After having acquired a complete cycle of Wilfred von Schnittikheusen's Sonatas for kazoo and rubber band ensemble in the bargain bin, we may later find a finer performance by a more renowned world class ensemble, feeling compelled to acquire that and the next, and so on.

Because I have so much music and I'm running out of compositions I enjoy that I can collect, I am in the process of culling out old unpleasant recordings in my collection, many of well known works and they are the only versions I have. This allows me to practically begin again and extend my collecting mania. The thing is, collecting itself is an enjoyable relaxing activity and so I feel no guilt in doing it. I collect books as well. But I can't say my collection hobby interferes with my enjoyment of the music. When I sit down and have what I call a "deep listening" session I forget all about collecting and just enjoy the music - or not. I've discovered a lot of clunkers that way too which is why I am now culling. 

The worst thing about collecting is that it takes time away from more creative things I should be doing. But it feels therapeutic.


----------



## hpowders

The person who owns the most toys per lifetime wins!


----------



## Cheyenne

I don't have a lot of money and am always attempting to restrain myself in material pursuits. I rarely purchase books I can't read online (that is to say, books that are out of print and available on Project Gutenberg or Archive.org), I rarely purchase films (preferring online services), and I rarely purchase video games at their full retail price, rather waiting for the price to drop. As for CDs - well, given how many things I've wanted to purchase but haven't, I think I don't have to be embarrassed. Life may be short and art long, but that's no reason to go hoarding.

But why speak when you can show? My great collector's wall:









Not too bad, no? The Messaien edition wasn't all that necessary, and some of the CDs weren't exactly worth the purchase, but beyond those most are listened to fairly frequently. Otherwise I use Spotify or even Youtube.

I feel the urge to collect all the time, but I tell myself to calm down; I attempt to scrutinize the impulse with reason. As Huneker wrote of Brahms, "he is a chilly friend at first, but the clasp of the hand is true, if it is not always charmful."


----------



## Art Rock

Very recognizable. Unfortunately.


----------



## starthrower

I've been purchasing recordings all my life, but I've never been interested in building a collection. I only buy a recording when I want to listen to a piece. Thankfully, I'm not interested in stamps, coins, pottery, etc.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

One good thing about being an obsessive CD collector is that you support recording labels and musicians by buying what they are selling. 

As to myself, I'm too poor to collect music, nor am I motivated to collect even what I want when I can get it all FREE on the internet. I own all of Glazunov's symphonies in one way or another, but at very cheap cost to me (4 were recordings of the radio). But I don't want to own 4 renditions of anything, that's not going to improve my opinion of anything. My standard to buy anything is very, very high. Usually the protocol is this: Buy what can't be found on youtube or Spotify. There are indeed a few gaps, but not too many.

Do you know how often I listen to anything that I actually own anymore? Zip. My little CD collection has been cold for years, I haven't ripped them into my latest laptop (which I've had for 3 years).

Youtube and Spotify are where it's at! :cheers:


----------



## scratchgolf

I've always been a big proponent of function over form but I have areas of direct contradiction as well. I seem to crave symmetry and balance, even when not required. Before this recent classical binge, I had around 40gb of music on my computer. In the last 3 months it's grown to over 130gb with about 99% being classical. If my iTunes library felt loose or poorly structured I'd delete everything and reload piece by piece (to include conversion from WMA to MP3) which is a very timely process. I'd begin with source files though to ensure everything was catalogued, labeled, and even punctuated/capitalized properly. Does Bach truly sound better if Goldberg is capitalized? No, but I still took issue. Unfortunately feeling organized and being organized are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## brotagonist

*The Art Of Collecting*

I have been a lifelong music collector. Collecting is only obsessive if you make it so. Instead of buying everything for the sake of buying, buy according to a plan. Determine the pieces you want by your composers of interest. Of course, there will inevitably be some pieces you add to your list and some you ought to have considered better before buying, but this gives you an idea of what you are collecting. A real collection, in my opinion, is not a mass grab for everything in sight, but a process of considered selection. I think this is what Neo Romanza was also saying.

I also feel that a real collection has a purpose, and that purpose is enjoyment and learning. Merely having something on a shelf defeats this purpose. You actually have to listen to and absorb the music to truly benefit from your collection. It's not about possession of objects, but about access to and enjoyment of the music that you have studiously selected for enjoyment and contemplation according to your interests.

This imposes temporal limits on your collection. There comes a point beyond which you will no longer be able to devote the necessary time to the enjoyment of your collection. Your day has only twenty-four hours and your life is finite. You want to devote this precious time to the music you are genuinely interested in. You must determine how often you want to be able to hear a work to fully know and enjoy it: once a year? once every five years? once in your lifetime? This will determine the size of your collection and the amount of straying from your pieces and composers of interest that you can allow yourself. Know from the outset that, no matter how hard you try, you will never hear (nor own) it all.

You will want to have shelves to store your collection in a way that is befitting of your collection and what it means to you. Make sure to change the file names of your collection, if collecting digital files, to meet your requirements, so that there is a uniform appearance to your collection. It is a hobby that you invest considerable time into and you do not want it to be shabby.

A spreadsheet is also a great idea. It helps you to scan your collection at a glance and is a record of your collection (for insurance, even). Also, if you consider the data you want to record, you can have the spreadsheet calculate interesting statistics that will aid you in your hobby and add a dimension to your listening and learning.

Following a forum such as this one can easily lead you astray from your core interests for your collection. There is nothing wrong with becoming interested in a work or composer you had not initially planned on collecting, of course, but I would recommend using a free (or pay) online service, such as Naxos Music Library or You Tube, as a testing ground. You do not need to collect every work nor have to have every composer in your collection. If you are clear on the composers you want and their works of primary interest (read about the composer's oeuvre so as to make the best selections to meet your needs and interests), then you will find it less difficult to remain on track. When someone mentions something on this forum, or elsewhere, you can hear it online in order to be able to knowledgeably contribute to the discussions without straying from your goals in collecting.

"Once is happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. Three times is enemy action." The fourth time, with preparation, you can be forearmed to make a better response.


----------



## Bulldog

scratchgolf said:


> When starting a collection, whether music, wine, books, etc., many people tend to choose quantity over quality. They want every shelf filled or wine slot to contain a bottle. As their tastes change (and financial situations) they may find themselves replacing "filler" with things they truly want. Often this can become an obsession of sorts and eventually the need to collect can supersede one's ability to enjoy. I've also noticed people refer to themselves as obsessive of OCD and treat it as a badge of honor. Even those who are not, as if it's a choice and a noble pursuit.
> 
> As I build my collection of Classical Music, I'm discovering some troubling trends. My "need" to constantly expand my collection and seek out new material is greatly affecting my enjoyment. At this rate, I'll die before I become familiar with everything I own. While it's nice to learn about a highly recommended piece, only to find out I own it and can listen immediately, it's making it difficult to me to appreciate new selections, or even give them their proper due. Subsequently, I find myself returning to my safety zone all too often. I've been working on a spreadsheet to assist me with what I own, what I want, and what I prefer, but anyone who's been down this road knows it's impossible to get it right and much time gets wasted in the trivial pursuit of a perfect system.
> 
> Much of this is based in fear: a fear of missing out on something or losing something. I know my fear comes from my line of work and being surrounded by death and loss for so long. The uncertainty of tomorrow creates the need to accomplish everything today. Unfortunately, this creates a very overwhelming feeling of powerlessness. I've considered selecting 2 composers each month and listening to only their works, while cataloging my results and findings. This usually lasts less than a day, as something pops up and intrigues me more. I keep telling myself I'll find a stopping point and settle in with the music I own. This is the mantra of the obsessive-compulsive.
> 
> While I'm not sure how relevant this is as a topic, I am curious if anyone has similar tendencies or experiences. Perhaps it will be buried by a few more "Mozart vs Bob Dylan" threads and I'll go about my business.


I feel badly for you and might have a couple of tips to help.

You're thinking way too much about this matter, taking a wonderful hobby and making it into a "worry machine". So, the collection is not the problem; it's how you're managing it. Further, I'd junk the spreadsheet sort of process you are using; it seems to only add to your anxiety.


----------



## violadude

The OP reminds me of myself. I don't have much advice because I face a similar problem as you do (minus the dangerous occupation). But I do sincerely hope you live as long as you need to in order to listen to as much music as you wish to.


----------



## Blake

I feel your struggle, Scratch. I usually push for quality over quantity, but when it comes to music, my desire to reach the horizon causes me to consume at monstrous rates. I highly enjoy whatever I listen too, but I always feel that little gremlin on my shoulder whispering, "what's next?" It's like I have this dream of finally reaching "The Perfect Piece."


----------



## bigshot

It isn't quantity vs quality... it's quantity OF quality. The great thing about the world we live in is that there is more wonderful music recorded out there than one person can possibly process. Instead of worrying about it, one should be happy that there is an unending font of creativity to take advantage of.


----------



## Rapide

Nice thread. I enjoyed reading it.

A point I would like to mention is that the "art of collecting" is definitely an evolving one and everyone whom I have met in life who collects, never had a "collecting plan" from the start that remains in place, but the plan evolves naturally. And I think that's part of the fun of collecting and that which leads to, in a large part, self-education and appreciation of the music.

My first collections were based on composers. There was a period when I was obssessed with Franz Joseph Haydn's music. That started with the London/late symphonies, and I started collecting all 106 selectively by perfomers. There are only a few symphonies out of the 106 where I have only one version of, and then quite a few where I have quite a few versions of. Then it expanded out to the SQ, chambers music, masses etc. where I selectively built up the entire oeuvre. The point is I have learnt so much about Classicism and Haydn's contribution to Classicism and that's the healthiest part of a music collection.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

My most valued music collection on my shelf are the music scores. I don't have many or feel compelled to BUY BUY BUY all the time because of the wonderful IMSLP. However, it's much nicer to have a book than printouts lying around. 

As to music on CDs....well whenever I walk into a CD shop with money I tend to just look through the entire classical and jazz sections three times over and end up leaving the shop. If I buy anything it's usually just one thing and I never feel like I should keep buying until I have everything. I find out what I want, and simply just buy that.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Weston said:


> The thing is, collecting itself is an enjoyable relaxing activity and so I feel no guilt in doing it.


I feel the same way. I like to stop by McKay's or Great Escape on my way home from work about once a week to see what's there. It's like a treasure hunt. I just picked up Dutilleux's latest 4-CD set, sealed, for $3.99. That's the price of a Starbuck's frou-frou latte, and it accomplishes the same pleasant rush as the coffee.

So I'm not so much a collector as a hunter. Even if I only hear the CD a couple times, it's still more sustained pleasure than overpriced coffee.


----------



## PetrB

scratchgolf said:


> Often I'll read a post here that says, "I'm listening to ____'s __th Symphony. It's just so beautiful!" I want so badly to share in that beauty that I'll purchase it. Then I worry if his ___st Symphony is better than his ___th. Then I'll buy the entire cycle. Then I'll listen for 10 minutes and get both disappointed and frustrated. I feel like a swiss cheese bag trying to hold water.


Your mantra is something like there is only one now, and only this time -- without the fear of whatever else you 'are missing.'
It is impossible in any one now to enjoy any other 'nows,' If you get even one moment's busy with projected thoughts of another now while in this moment, your are of course enjoying nothing, even fleetingly. That defies your purpose of enjoying and being in now, and makes 'yet another loss.'

I find it fantastic you brought it up, without a humorous slant or shield, because I've seen it on TC before and sit reading such entries with not only wonder but a bit of sadness.

I think too many polls about the top ten, best bestest besterest of them all (fundamentally nearly useless) only fuel the fire of the mentality.

As far as collecting, as you said, how many copies of box sets or complete series of the Beethoven symphonies can you own, how many can you listen to at one time, and how many can you actually listen to without excluding that little reality called temporal pleasure, or excluding "NOW" from your life? Certainly a relatively balanced answer is "only a few."

I would say, very easily and readily, "Just stop," but if it is a true obsessive behavior behind it, we all know that is not enough.

I answered this question on TC about recordings collections, "How much Beethoven do you own?" I answered, truthfully, that I owned none. I got in response some truly aghast / startled symbols, those maybe indicating that I was culturally ignorant or in the gutter. 
I did not respond to explain that as a piano student later pro teacher / accompanist / performer that I had learned a handful of the sonatas, one concerto, have read through 'all that' dozens and dozens of times, listened to the symphonies, concerti, string quartets multiple times in concert, on the radio, etc. -- and those multiple times were probably more than any of these works had been performed in Beethoven's lifetime!

As to ""I'm listening to ____'s __th Symphony. It's just so beautiful!" -- Youtube covers a helluva a lot of material before you have to purchase anything beyond your internet access 

Grasping at owning makes you busy with not stopping to smell the roses, so to speak.

I'd urge you to go to a live musical event, save up the pennies from CD's you will not purchase in order to afford it, even if it involves a flight, hotel, and far greater expense than hopping on public transport to the local downtown symphony center. If you do have the great fortune to have ready and quick access to 'a downtown symphony center' -- well not only shame on you for not attending, but there is your cure 

There is only one now to enjoy, and I hope anyone with this problem will realize that, and ease up on the purchases.


----------



## PetrB

Weston said:


> I once read that the need to collect is a subconscious desire to control.


Bingo there! It is said that even language, the simple naming of things, put man in a position of more power over vs. having to acknowledge and deal with the atavistic and real energy and character of the boulder along the path he walked on his way to get a drink of water -- _*naming things and collecting things cuts them down in size.*_ All it takes is intimidation, or attraction to the power of its presence to want to own, collect, and reign in some of those more inchoate feelings and sensations, both by naming and 'owning.'



Weston said:


> The thing is, collecting itself is an enjoyable relaxing activity.... I can't say my collection hobby interferes with my enjoyment of the music. When I sit down and have what I call a "deep listening" session I forget all about collecting and just enjoy the music - or not. I've discovered a lot of clunkers that way too which is why I am now culling.


I think there is a very fine line between a 'healthy' hobby and a true obsessiveness, and it sounds like you are managing your collection, and your listening activity and not the other way 'round 



Weston said:


> collecting ... takes time away from more creative things I should be doing. _But it feels therapeutic._


 Sorry, "retail therapy" feels therapeutic but is nonetheless an aversion from something which needs facing or tending to.... like maybe those more creative things you "should be doing?"


----------



## PetrB

Manxfeeder said:


> I feel the same way. I like to stop by McKay's or Great Escape on my way home from work about once a week to see what's there. It's like a treasure hunt. I just picked up Dutilleux's latest 4-CD set, sealed, for $3.99. That's the price of a Starbuck's frou-frou latte, and it accomplishes the same pleasant rush as the coffee.
> 
> So I'm not so much a collector as a hunter. Even if I only hear the CD a couple times, it's still more sustained pleasure than overpriced coffee.


LOL. That is so utterly different from the 'problem,' as named in the OP.

Unless you do that with things you have no need or interest in, and all the time, this is as many of us know it, the much recognized and appreciated, "I'll buy _that_ for a dollar!"


----------



## scratchgolf

Thanks for the responses. I'm not as loopy as I come off but I'm plenty loopy. I really hoped for a serious discussion and I'm not disappointed. I certainly am not looking for pity. What an affliction though: Too much music! I do have a bad habit of overdoing things but I've managed to tone it down when needed. My bottom line desire is to really enjoy a wealth of music for the rest of my existence. It's certainly within my reach. 

As for you, PetrB..... first class response. Really. I knew you had a heart. Your response is much appreciated and your message certainly received. As for live music, I can't wait. I plan on moving my family back to NY where I'll have so many options, with both Cornell and Ithaca College a short drive away. I'm fortunate enough to be very stable, financially and I certainly plan on attending as frequently as possible. I'm certain this will curb my desire to purchase everything and give me something to really look forward to.


----------



## PetrB

scratchgolf said:


> Thanks for the responses. I'm not as loopy as I come off but I'm plenty loopy. I really hoped for a serious discussion and I'm not disappointed. I certainly am not looking for pity. What an affliction though: Too much music! I do have a bad habit of overdoing things but I've managed to tone it down when needed. My bottom line desire is to really enjoy a wealth of music for the rest of my existence. It's certainly within my reach.
> 
> As for you, PetrB..... first class response. Really. I knew you had a heart. Your response is much appreciated and your message certainly received. As for live music, I can't wait. I plan on moving my family back to NY where I'll have so many options, with both Cornell and Ithaca College a short drive away. I'm fortunate enough to be very stable, financially and I certainly plan on attending as frequently as possible. I'm certain this will curb my desire to purchase everything and give me something to really look forward to.


Well... "Enjoy," then 

Best regards


----------



## scratchgolf

PetrB said:


> Well... "Enjoy," then
> 
> Best regards


I'm serious in saying thank you. I really appreciated your post.


----------



## CypressWillow

There's also a first-rate public radio station here in the Cornell/Ithaca College area that plays lots of serious music. Between the live performances and other resources, it's my hope that you'll be able to relax and enjoy without needing to own. 
Best wishes to you in your upcoming move and a tip 'o the hat to PetrB for saying it all so well.


----------



## PetrB

scratchgolf said:


> I'm serious in saying thank you. I really appreciated your post.


A blunt and earnest question deserves the same in return. I'm happy in answering that I provided some satisfaction, and you are, of course, most welcome.

CypressWillow was first on the draw to extend to you, "Best wishes to you in your upcoming move." But it is worth saying again:
Best wishes to you in your upcoming move.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I largely agree with BigShot. I Have what many might deem a small library when considering my book collection. I have at least 1000+ art books and easily over 100,000 .jpg images of art works saved to my hard drive. My music collection... CDs... is also quite large by most standards... but the arts are my passion... and my profession. My car is just for getting from point A to point B. I'm not interested in impressing the neighbors with a bigger and better house. The arts are where I spend my money. 

Having said that... I don't buy to "collect". There used to be a member here who upon discovering a "new" work of music or composer that he liked would set about buying nearly every box set available of this composer's work. He obviously had some deep pockets. He admitted that he was a "collector" more than a "listener". I purchase only that which I feel will bring me pleasure in listening to. There have been times when I have purchased recordings faster than I could reasonably be expected to listen to them... but in most cases this has to do with my recognizing a bargain that won't last... or a new recording of a work of music not really part of the core repertoire that may likely go out of print rapidly.

If I purchase more than a single recording of a given work of music it is because that work is important to me... and I recognize there is no such thing as a single "best" recording. In most instances there are several... at times dozens... of recordings of some works that are of the highest quality. But they are also all different. I enjoy the various different interpretations. With a favorite work of music I often seek out at least one older acclaimed recording, at least one newer recording... and one or more recording marked by a conductor or performer of unique and original vision that stands apart from others. 

At the moment I have put purchases of "new" (to me) recordings on a back-burner (I believe I've bought all of 4 or 5 discs over the past 3 or 4 months) while I focus on those works in my collection that I am less familiar with.


----------



## guy

If you buy a CD, it costs money and you only get 1 recording that may be good or bad. If you go to youtube, you have multiple recordings of varying quality for free. It's a win-win situation!


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

PetrB said:


> I answered this question on TC about recordings collections, "How much Beethoven do you own?" I answered, truthfully, that I owned none. I got in response some truly aghast / startled symbols, those maybe indicating that I was culturally ignorant or in the gutter.


Hehehe, I'd never judge you for that.  But in all seriousness, it's probably most mentally healthy for musicians to do this. Likewise with me, I own almost no flute music, save middle school oldie CDs. I've listened to many albums (it's a part of my degree requirement to do CD reviews of 2-3 flute albums per semester), but I don't want to own them. I'd rather own the actual _sheet music_ so I can play it.


----------



## scratchgolf

I was actually in a music store (Hastings) today while my wife was buying blah blah at the blah blah store. I was perusing the classical section (smaller than the Alaskan Hip-Hop section) and saw a CD titled "Beethoven's Greatest Hits". I resisted the urge (to vomit). Really? Greatest Hits?


----------



## Dustin

As a few others have said, Spotify is my answer to this problem. I used to feel the same way. Now I understand some people want to say, "But it's not really yours!", and I understand. But it might as well be. I do a good job of pretending it is. The user interface is as good or better than the terrible new version of iTunes and the sound quality is better. So i'm just banking on Spotify never going out of business so I can keep the music forever.


----------



## Stargazer

I don't own a single recording. Youtube is the best!


----------



## Blake

Stargazer said:


> I don't own a single recording. Youtube is the best!


Holy crap, man. I would think there is a sort of freedom in that though. As you don't have to worry about becoming "proud" of a collection and obsessing over it. You're just sort of floating along.


----------



## guy

Vesuvius said:


> Holy crap, man. I would think there is a sort of freedom in that though. As you don't have to worry about becoming "proud" of a collection and obsessing over it. You're just sort of floating along.


You also don't have to pay more and more money as your tastes change.


----------



## SixFootScowl

guy said:


> If you buy a CD, it costs money and you only get 1 recording that may be good or bad. If you go to youtube, you have multiple recordings of varying quality for free. It's a win-win situation!


That is an excellent way to sample music, but I still like to own my favorite work. I did use YouTube to find my Fidelio DVD and am very pleased with it, so don't feel the need to own others, other than another one with Gundula Janowitz playing Fidelio.



scratchgolf said:


> I was actually in a music store (Hastings) today


Hastings the town? If so, which state as there are many Hastings out there? I had family in Hastings, Michigan, but haven't been there in 20+ years.


----------



## scratchgolf

Florestan said:


> Hastings the town? If so, which state as there are many Hastings out there? I had family in Hastings, Michigan, but haven't been there in 20+ years.


No. It's a multi-media store. Mostly CDs and DVDs. The classical section was small and most of the CDs were $1.99ish but the selections were terrible. I'm not surprised, seeing how I live in a cultural black hole.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

Florestan said:


> 1. I have 30 different performances of Beethoven's Ninth and only listen to one of them. 2. I have enough motor oil to last me about 7-10 years!


1. eBay
2. eBay as I suspect oil may have a shelflife

Obsession and particularly possession can require an exorcism so b careful out there


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

bigshot said:


> It isn't quantity vs quality... it's quantity OF quality. The great thing about the world we live in is that there is more wonderful music recorded out there than one person can possibly process. Instead of worrying about it, one should be happy that there is an unending font of creativity to take advantage of.


I feel sure that one can have 2much of anything but as long as woteva one has is the best achievable and as much of as affordable and/or desirable then enuff is as good as a feast.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

guy said:


> If you buy a CD, it costs money and you only get 1 recording that may be good or bad. If you go to youtube, you have multiple recordings of varying quality for free. It's a win-win situation!


Conversion of VBR files from variable sources sure allows a vast collection but one whose quality of recording is likely lacklustre besides which it's also verging on if not actually piracy.

I listen to stuff but then buy a version as that way I've got wot I liked at the best quality and that way hopefully the recording artist gets funded from the sale 2do more of the same.


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

scratchgolf said:


> I was actually in a music store (Hastings) today while my wife was buying blah blah at the blah blah store. I was perusing the classical section (smaller than the Alaskan Hip-Hop section) and saw a CD titled "Beethoven's Greatest Hits". I resisted the urge (to vomit). Really? Greatest Hits?


Harold bought something in Hastings but was neva happy wiv that :lol:

Beethoven is popular so must have had some "Greatest Hits" tho I blame record labels as some current chart-toppers will no doubt see a Hits album appearing as they fade which has many Hits on it that weren't.

I wonda if some1 in Mr B's family rakes in royalties


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

Vesuvius said:


> Holy crap, man. I would think there is a sort of freedom in that though. As you don't have to worry about becoming "proud" of a collection and obsessing over it. You're just sort of floating along.


Floating is better than sinking and some peeps appear to be drowning in their collections or even just gloating in their bloating rather than roamin in the gloaming whose sentiment I'm about 2follow :tiphat:


----------



## Svelte Silhouette

guy said:


> You also don't have to pay more and more money as your tastes change.


And one day the lack of royalties kills the music so that saves all our collections growing eva again.


----------



## SixFootScowl

scratchgolf said:


> No. It's a multi-media store. Mostly CDs and DVDs. The classical section was small and most of the CDs were $1.99ish but the selections were terrible. I'm not surprised, seeing how I live in a cultural black hole.


Ah, if you ever get to the Detroit area, come to Dearborn Music. They have a nice selection of classical, new and used.



ruaskin said:


> 1. eBay
> 2. eBay as I suspect oil may have a shelflife
> 
> Obsession and particularly possession can require an exorcism so b careful out there


Mostly Amazon for the CDs but also Dearborn Music. The oil has a shelf life that is determined by whether the cars I have years from now take that kind of oil, but there has been no proof that the oil degrades. No biological activity with the additives (about 750 ppm zinc is good to keep out biology).

Obsession can require exorcism or can end in a huge disappointing loss of interest from being super saturated with the one thing. I remember at one time during my Ninth collecting that I had about 16 Ninths on my MP3 (and nothing else) and was continually cycling through them. Right now I am on a Fidelio obsession (can you tell from my username and signature :lol: and since my music trends tend to shift violently, I actually fear to some degree listening to any of my pop collection (Johnny Winter, Bob Dylan, or Neil Young) lest I suddenly chuck the classical and go on a pop spree for months. That is what happened when I joined in 2011 and then had a huge gap in my visiting this site.


----------



## nightscape

I find myself running into this problem now. Money was very tight for a stretch, but now I'm in a much better situation. I don't actively seek out mp3 albums, I like to own the CD, but I just bought 4 complete symphony collections (Bruckner, Sibelius, Atterberg, Brahms) on top of other individual CDs. I'm already familiar with some of it. I guess it could just be me having a spending problem, or being a materialist, or viewing my CD collection as a trophy collection, showing off, etc. I don't know, I'm not a psychologist.

Personally, I feel like I'm making up for lost time. I went through a long period of time where I didn't buy anything. I'm spoiling myself, but now I need to find the time to listen to all this new music!


----------



## SixFootScowl

I don't lament the cost of CDs purchased. I consider the price of CDs compared to filling my gas tank and the CD seems rather inexpensive. A minor expenditure for oftentimes great listening pleasure and ownership of the music and inserts. I abhor the idea of buying music electronically, but have one Ninth in that form because that was the only way it was offered and I wanted one with a female conductor.


----------



## Blancrocher

Florestan said:


> I don't lament the cost of CDs purchased. I consider the price of CDs compared to filling my gas tank and the CD seems rather inexpensive. A minor expenditure for oftentimes great listening pleasure and ownership of the music and inserts. I abhor the idea of buying music electronically, but have one Ninth in that form because that was the only way it was offered and I wanted one with a female conductor.


I pay much less for a music streaming service than for my cell phone, and with rare exceptions I much prefer what I hear from the former!


----------



## Sid James

scratchgolf said:


> ...I've considered selecting 2 composers each month and listening to only their works, while cataloging my results and findings...


Well that's kind of what I do. On a weekly basis I focus on one area but also listen to other things. My blog (in my footer below) is like a diary on my thoughts and research into these pieces.

You know someone said something about the best way to stop smoking. Don't put a cigarette in your mouth. So controlling any impulse that you think gets out of hand, any addiction or obsession, well you've got the power, you just gotta do it.

I now buy the things I will listen to straight away. I sorted out my mistakes in the past, those impulse buys, and those "shoulds." Recently I went back to that and saw how its a failure. Bought some opera and it was immediately culled. Couldn't even get through it, the one listen was a challenge, like eating cardboard. Its not to say I dislike all opera. But if I make myself do things, even if we're talking about great composers and masterpieces, it won't be engaging, it won't have a chance of succeeding.

So I go for things that don't feed any of these FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out, which you mention) type reactions. The feeling I have to get through this or that masterpiece before I kick the bucket. Well, you know unless I am being paid to do it (and I am not!) why should I do that?

I started out broad and now am focussing on things that have proven pluses not minuses. Things like history of music, for example a composer's contemporaries or teachers, or connections with influence and inspiration, that interests me a great deal. It informs my purchases, if indeed its of composers I don't know or am less familiar with. But for a while now my focus has been on the familiar, fleshing out composers who I know and getting more pieces by them, or pieces I had ages ago on old media and need to get on CD.


----------



## samurai

Everything that's been said by my fellow members has been spot on regarding this "issue". We are all didtinct individuals with varying habits/vices, or degrees thereof. The only observation which I feel comfortable making is that--no matter who we are--we can only listen to one performance at a time. As we are all on this earth for such a relatively short time, my philosophy is enjoy--or not--each performance listened to at that particular moment in which it is being heard.


----------



## scratchgolf

Sid James said:


> Well that's kind of what I do. On a weekly basis I focus on one area but also listen to other things. My blog (in my footer below) is like a diary on my thoughts and research into these pieces.


Thanks for the input, as it's much appreciated (and I'll certainly drop in on your blogs as well). I've really felt like I'm blindfolded and tossing darts in every possible direction. Even if I hit the bullseye, I'd never know it. Today I drove my wife to the airport. I was blessed with about 4 hours of music in the car. I chose Mendelssohn concertos on the way there and Vivaldi concertos on the way home. I must say I was rewarded in both choices. I really think there's something to minimizing and focusing on the works of a few. I used to be a big cigar smoker. I had 3 large humidors with hundreds of top shelf offerings. I never knew where to start and I rarely enjoyed a single one due to the anticipation of what came next. I'm not stupid though. I really don't need someone to tell me the solution, anymore than an alcoholic needs the same. The ultimate tragedy lies in the answer being right in front of their face, and in plain view. I also used to smoke cigarettes and I remember my 9 year old son (now 12) asking me why. I tried to feed him the typical line of BS and he told me to just stop. How easy? After stumbling over my own mouth for a few seconds I realized he was right. It is that easy. If I couldn't justify my actions to a 9 year old then I should change my actions. I haven't smoked since.


----------



## Sid James

scratchgolf said:


> Thanks for the input, as it's much appreciated (and I'll certainly drop in on your blogs as well). I've really felt like I'm blindfolded and tossing darts in every possible direction. Even if I hit the bullseye, I'd never know it.


I think its a common problem or dilemma. There is so much choice out there. In previous generations it wasn't as hard, they weren't as overloaded with a million different choices and options. This is the essence of FOMO which you mentioned, someone coined that phrase a couple of years ago regarding all the sites online, and its taken off now. Its like a cliche of today's digital age when we can access everyting at the touch of a mouse. So its more of a problem than before, especially in today's busy and fast paced world.

Speaking of myself, with classical music it just took time and experience to boil things down and focus on what I think will work. Its not an exact science, or maybe not a science at all. Part of it is listening to gut instinct.

Of course it might be of limited or no use for me to tell you what to do, or to tell you what I did it. Smoking or getting off any drug is the same. Everyone does it differently, uses a different approach, there are many ways to achieve our goals. The other thing is that if you go without something, inevitably you're going to be missing it. Maybe you'll even be peeved off half or most of the time. Can't get around that void, that lack of something even if it was developing into something less than healthy.

You know music is great but there are other things out there, there are other leisure activities. Its not the same and its hard to change but I think a bit of change and refocussing is good. Otherwise its easy to get stuck in a rut. So I have done this, mixed music with other things. I think its up to the individual though to kind of solve things in their own way. If its burdening you a lot, I think you'll be able think through a solution eventually.


----------



## PetrB

guy said:


> If you buy a CD, it costs money and you only get 1 recording that may be good or bad. If you go to youtube, you have multiple recordings of varying quality for free. It's a win-win situation!


I guess you figure your composer pal Graham Cohen is just going to live at home and / or be supported by his family the rest of his life while the world at large just sucks up his music via illegal uploads?

.... interesting business model where you consume a product and never pay either performer or composer.

Oh... right, I'm wrong! 
Of course Mr Cohen will have to be expected to have a day job, like every other solid citizen, and just compose on weekends.


----------



## scratchgolf

I think another problem is ease of access. I remember listening to cassette tapes as a child and dreaming of a day where I could control music with the touch of a button or a voice command. I imagined a Jetsons-like scenario where a super computer would control everything and simply wait for my command. We are basically there now. Tapes became CDs. 5 disc changers replaced single feed. The MP3 changed everything. I believe there's merit in patience and my collection is about 99% digital. I'm not forced to wait for anything and I can hold about 6 months worth of music in the palm of my hand. So, I got exactly what I wanted and I'm not sure it's a good thing.


----------



## samurai

Two old sayings immediately come to mind in this regard: "Be careful what you wish for, since someday you might get it", and "Freedom is slavery"--the latter from Orwell in 1984. I truly believe that we might be the first generation in history fortunate enough to have to contend with this "dilemma".


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

PetrB said:


> I guess you figure your composer pal Graham Cohen is just going to live at home and / or be supported by his family the rest of his life while the world at large just sucks up his music via illegal uploads?
> 
> .... interesting business model where you consume a product and never pay either performer or composer.
> 
> Oh... right, I'm wrong!
> Of course Mr Cohen will have to be expected to have a day job, like every other solid citizen, and just compose on weekends.


Ironically, talking to a clarinet professor at my school who has made a number of recordings, he didn't like that his recordings were on Spotify because it was there without his permission, however, he acceded that even buying his music as MP3 recordings gives him about _2 cents_ for every track, the rest going to his recording label. He'll get maybe 1 dollar if 5 people buy his whole album? Maybe someone would be excited for a chance to earn maybe $50 for an album over time, but sounds a lot more like recordings are just out there for improving publicity than making serious money, especially if there's a 3rd party dealing with the recordings. Speaking of the classical world, that is...


----------



## Centropolis

I don't think I have the obsession to own everything but I am totally in the "buy now and enjoy later" category. Since I started buying classical music CDs for about 5 months now, I've amassed many CDs that I still haven't heard once yet. This is mainly due to the fact that I concentrated on boxsets. I seem to fit in to the group of people that try to get the best-bang-for-the-buck.

Instead of spending $10 on a CD with 2 Beethoven symphonies, I did not understand why wouldn't people just by a complete cycle for $18. Of course, I do understand now but I am still too early in my classical music discovery that I do not have too much preference on a conductor/performer over another. I feel that as long as it's got decent reviews in Penguin guide, it can't be that bad. So I look for cost-per-CD more. I guess in a way, I do have a tendency to when to complete something but only for a particular type of composition (like complete piano sonata) rather than a complete edition of a composer.

In some cases, I already know that I don't own the performance that I like the best. For example, the Four Seasons on my Vivaldi box isn't to my liking and I've heard others that I like a lot more. But for now, I am spending my money on other music I don't have first rather than doubling.


----------



## hpowders

That's smart. You can always double or triple once the pension and social security kick in.


----------



## samurai

hpowders said:


> That's smart. You can always double or triple once the pension and social security kick in.


Good luck with that theory! :scold:


----------



## hpowders

samurai said:


> Good luck with that theory! :scold:


Who knows? Listening to recorded music might be a whole lot cheaper by then. :lol:


----------



## SixFootScowl

I hear a lot of talk about different conductors and performances and short of a really bad performance, for instrumental music I just don't have the ability to appreciate one over the other. Where I am more exacting is in vocal performances and that shows in my 30 Beethoven Ninths. Ironically, i kept trying them and eventually (about 20+ in) picked up a copy of Fricsay, which was my first Ninth and on vinyl way back about 1980. Hadn't heard it in probably 15+ years, but it turned out to be my favorite. In some cases, my first is my favorite, such as the Ninth and the Missa Solemnis.

But my dream is to have an implant to hold all my favorite music, with the ability to bring it up at will and have it play in my head at concert hall quality. Could turn me into a zombie to the world though, eh?


----------



## Vaneyes

OPie, don't feel guilty, just forget the unknown composers and the rest is within reasonable reach. Have fun! :tiphat:


----------



## samurai

hpowders said:


> Who knows? Listening to recorded music might be a whole lot cheaper by then. :lol:


Depending on how many years out we're talking about here, you may well be right.


----------



## Sid James

scratchgolf said:


> I think another problem is ease of access. I remember listening to cassette tapes as a child and dreaming of a day where I could control music with the touch of a button or a voice command. I imagined a Jetsons-like scenario where a super computer would control everything and simply wait for my command. We are basically there now. Tapes became CDs. 5 disc changers replaced single feed. The MP3 changed everything. I believe there's merit in patience and my collection is about 99% digital. I'm not forced to wait for anything and I can hold about 6 months worth of music in the palm of my hand. So, I got exactly what I wanted and I'm not sure it's a good thing.





samurai said:


> Two old sayings immediately come to mind in this regard: "Be careful what you wish for, since someday you might get it", and "Freedom is slavery"--the latter from Orwell in 1984. I truly believe that we might be the first generation in history fortunate enough to have to contend with this "dilemma".


Well it might not exactly apply to digital files but decluttering and culling is an issue here, at least with physical formats. I did a thread on that a while ago:

http://www.talkclassical.com/25808-culling-your-collection.html

Just like FOMO, decluttering is attracting attention now. I mean in a sense of everything not only music, all these limitless choices we have. There's been a lot written on decluttering, from articles in lifestyle magazines to self help type books and academic tomes.

I did a big cull over the past year or so in terms of books and cd's. I must have gotten rid of something like 100 cd's overall. Apart from two of those culls I mildly regret, on the whole it was positive. Since that time I don't have that psychological burden of a backlog of music to listen to. All those "shoulds." Since that time I have instituted the policy I spoke of, only buy what I need, what I will listen to within a short period of time (within two weeks is okay). Its worked. I saved not only space but also got rid of that psychological baggage. Many people today have this, in any area you can speak of. It can be anything as mundane as cd's and books, or the stuff you've had in the basement for years, or electrical appliances or gym equipment you rarely if ever use.

The message is that getting rid of it sets you free. In my case its allowed me to focus on what I want to do, not what I feel are obligations. I don't think its good to turn a hobby (music, or reading) into a chore. But again, I'm speaking of my own experience, just adding it to the mix here!

In terms of choice let me tell you a story. Years back I met a person who was well into their senior years. In this person's younger years, they had developed a passion for Russian music, specifically Russian opera. We're talking of the post-WWII era here. This person told me how hard it was to get a recording out of the former USSR, from behind the Iron Curtain, into the West. He was happy to get a highlights recordings of particular Russian operas, and there was no choice, there was only one recording available. The waiting period for shipping was something like 6 months.

Puts things in perspective doesn't it? That generation would have treasured that recording, when today we are drowned with choices, even of some off the beaten track Russian operas for example. I often think that we have lost that simple acceptance and corresponding simple sense of joy. That feeling that music is a treat, and that not everything happens instantaneously and sometimes we have to wait for things we want.


----------



## scratchgolf

Amen to that. My most recent deployment was in Afghanistan. We had one tree on our base, a Mulberry Tree, and I'd sit under it at night and smoke a cigar. I felt as if I were in the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. It's amazing how the human mind adapts to situations and makes the most of them. Think about the times of Beethoven and Mozart. The only option for hearing them was live performance. Now we literally have everything we want at our fingertips, and I'm not sure we're better off.


----------



## hpowders

Music is not only a great treat, it is low calorie too!


----------



## ArtMusic

Sid James said:


> Well it might not exactly apply to digital files but decluttering and culling is an issue here, at least with physical formats. I did a thread on that a while ago:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/25808-culling-your-collection.html
> 
> Just like FOMO, decluttering is attracting attention now. I mean in a sense of everything not only music, all these limitless choices we have. There's been a lot written on decluttering, from articles in lifestyle magazines to self help type books and academic tomes.
> 
> I did a big cull over the past year or so in terms of books and cd's. I must have gotten rid of something like 100 cd's overall. Apart from two of those culls I mildly regret, on the whole it was positive. Since that time I don't have that psychological burden of a backlog of music to listen to. All those "shoulds." Since that time I have instituted the policy I spoke of, only buy what I need, what I will listen to within a short period of time (within two weeks is okay). Its worked. I saved not only space but also got rid of that psychological baggage. Many people today have this, in any area you can speak of. It can be anything as mundane as cd's and books, or the stuff you've had in the basement for years, or electrical appliances or gym equipment you rarely if ever use.
> 
> The message is that getting rid of it sets you free. In my case its allowed me to focus on what I want to do, not what I feel are obligations. I don't think its good to turn a hobby (music, or reading) into a chore. But again, I'm speaking of my own experience, just adding it to the mix here!
> 
> In terms of choice let me tell you a story. Years back I met a person who was well into their senior years. In this person's younger years, they had developed a passion for Russian music, specifically Russian opera. We're talking of the post-WWII era here. This person told me how hard it was to get a recording out of the former USSR, from behind the Iron Curtain, into the West. He was happy to get a highlights recordings of particular Russian operas, and there was no choice, there was only one recording available. The waiting period for shipping was something like 6 months.
> 
> Puts things in perspective doesn't it? That generation would have treasured that recording, when today we are drowned with choices, even of some off the beaten track Russian operas for example. I often think that we have lost that simple acceptance and corresponding simple sense of joy. That feeling that music is a treat, and that not everything happens instantaneously and sometimes we have to wait for things we want.


Interesting, Sid. Curious, when you say "cull" do you literally mean throwing it away in the bin? Or you donate/give some away or sell them or ...?


----------



## hreichgott

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Ironically, talking to a clarinet professor at my school who has made a number of recordings, he didn't like that his recordings were on Spotify because it was there without his permission, however, he acceded that even buying his music as MP3 recordings gives him about _2 cents_ for every track, the rest going to his recording label. He'll get maybe 1 dollar if 5 people buy his whole album? Maybe someone would be excited for a chance to earn maybe $50 for an album over time, but sounds a lot more like recordings are just out there for improving publicity than making serious money, especially if there's a 3rd party dealing with the recordings. Speaking of the classical world, that is...


That man needs another label. Unless those recordings were of an orchestra that included him, or something. 2 cents for purchased track, and they don't let him opt out of spotify??


----------



## PetrB

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Ironically, talking to a clarinet professor at my school who has made a number of recordings, he didn't like that his recordings were on Spotify because it was there without his permission, however, he acceded that even buying his music as MP3 recordings gives him about _2 cents_ for every track, the rest going to his recording label. He'll get maybe 1 dollar if 5 people buy his whole album? Maybe someone would be excited for a chance to earn maybe $50 for an album over time, but sounds a lot more like recordings are just out there for improving publicity than making serious money, especially if there's a 3rd party dealing with the recordings. Speaking of the classical world, that is...


Popular performers fare no better, but by numbers, do better. I've forgotten the ratios, but the difference is stunning in how many discs need to sell for a pop performer to be awarded a gold or platinum record vs. how many need to sell for the same to be awarded a classical performance / composer -- I think the classical numbers are at least one tenth, if not even less than the number needed for the pop performers.

Direct CD sale, maybe 5 cents to the single artist, but if you sell a million, have additional royalties from radio play and sheet music, are performing on tour, you make a fairly lowish-normal living.

Whatever the case, however small the rip-off, stealing someones work is more than just a little analogous to breaking into their home and stealing food directly from their table.


----------



## ArtMusic

PetrB said:


> ...
> Direct CD sale, maybe 5 cents to the single artist, but if you sell a million, have additional royalties from radio play and sheet music, are performing on tour, *you make a fairly lowish-normal living*.
> 
> ....


Now are you speaking on behalf of others or on behalf or yourself? (Or both)?


----------



## scratchgolf

My wife just purchased tickets for us to see Beethoven's Two Romances for Violin and Orchestra and the 9th Symphony. The performances are May 1-3 by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. This will be my first live concert in over 20 years and probably the best Birthday gift I'll ever receive.


----------



## Copperears

Huilunsoittaja said:


> One good thing about being an obsessive CD collector is that you support recording labels and musicians by buying what they are selling.
> 
> As to myself, I'm too poor to collect music, nor am I motivated to collect even what I want when I can get it all FREE on the internet. I own all of Glazunov's symphonies in one way or another, but at very cheap cost to me (4 were recordings of the radio). But I don't want to own 4 renditions of anything, that's not going to improve my opinion of anything. My standard to buy anything is very, very high. Usually the protocol is this: Buy what can't be found on youtube or Spotify. There are indeed a few gaps, but not too many.
> 
> Do you know how often I listen to anything that I actually own anymore? Zip. My little CD collection has been cold for years, I haven't ripped them into my latest laptop (which I've had for 3 years).
> 
> Youtube and Spotify are where it's at! :cheers:


Not to mention that the sound quality you'll find on YouTube (less so on Spotify, as one of their developers has made eminently clear to me) is better than most recordings you'll be able to buy from the major labels these days, their having been severely contaminated with audible warbling inflicted upon them by "security" watermarking (the UMG labels Deutsche Grammophon and Decca being particularly egregious in this regard).

I find my musical or other collecting (my other current obsession is with airplane add-ons for Flight Simulator....) is entirely driven by intuition and my desire for pleasure.

Sometimes pleasure comes from repeated and deeper engagement with the subtleties of the already known, and in that mood, I realize I have enough books, music and software available to keep me busy several lifetimes over.

Other times, I feel desperate for something fresh, new, outré, be it a radically different recording of already known music, or plunging into a genre I've previously despised, or finding "minor" composers I'd previously told myself I shouldn't waste my time on, or music that is offensive to my ears and sensibilities, which I later discover after awhile is, hey, not so bad after all. Or even, great.

This is I think why I resist the Greatness sports game; at some level, as Confucius might say, every experience has its flavor, and to deny yourself any of it due to some abstract idea of should or shouldn't or good or bad is to simply impoverish yourself.

Poverty is not a financial state, ultimately, but a state of mind. I was financially poorest the day I walked down Magnificent Mile in Chicago one winter's sub-zero afternoon, adequately bundled to avoid severe frostbite, realized the whole city was at my disposal, much of it for no cost or very little cost, and suddenly realized that yes, at that moment, I was indeed the richest man in the world.

The poor financier strangling himself over not having been able to buy the best seats for the entirety of the Chicago Symphony's season is a far more impoverished soul than I will ever be.

Real wealth is infinite, and instantaneously available at any moment, to anyone who is conscious, and unafraid.


----------



## Vaneyes

Copperears said:


> *Not to mention that the sound quality you'll find on YouTube (less so on Spotify, as one of their developers has made eminently clear to me) is better than most recordings you'll be able to buy from the major labels these days, their having been severely contaminated with audible warbling inflicted upon them by "security" watermarking (the UMG labels Deutsche Grammophon and Decca being particularly egregious in this regard).
> *
> I find my musical or other collecting (my other current obsession is with airplane add-ons for Flight Simulator....) is entirely driven by intuition and my desire for pleasure.
> 
> Sometimes pleasure comes from repeated and deeper engagement with the subtleties of the already known, and in that mood, I realize I have enough books, music and software available to keep me busy several lifetimes over.
> 
> Other times, I feel desperate for something fresh, new, outré, be it a radically different recording of already known music, or plunging into a genre I've previously despised, or finding "minor" composers I'd previously told myself I shouldn't waste my time on, or music that is offensive to my ears and sensibilities, which I later discover after awhile is, hey, not so bad after all. Or even, great.
> 
> This is I think why I resist the Greatness sports game; at some level, as Confucius might say, every experience has its flavor, and to deny yourself any of it due to some abstract idea of should or shouldn't or good or bad is to simply impoverish yourself.
> 
> *Poverty is not a financial state, ultimately, but a state of mind. I was financially poorest the day I walked down Magnificent Mile in Chicago one winter's sub-zero afternoon, adequately bundled to avoid severe frostbite, realized the whole city was at my disposal, much of it for no cost or very little cost, and suddenly realized that yes, at that moment, I was indeed the richest man in the world.
> 
> *The poor financier strangling himself over not having been able to buy the best seats for the entirety of the Chicago Symphony's season is a far more impoverished soul than I will ever be.
> 
> Real wealth is infinite, and instantaneously available at any moment, to anyone who is conscious, and unafraid.


My ears don't agree with your blanket statement about CD vs YT sound comparison. And CD watermarking was a relatively short-lived attempt to discourage piracy. I found, re market percentage that not many CDs had it, though it could be irritating. But more so for a CD owner trying to play it on his computer or making a copy for personal use, than for sound quality.

Poverty is a fact in all respects for too many people trying to support their families. I suppose if one were single, one might be able to isolate the-stream-of-consciousness a little easier.


----------



## Copperears

I've found my older, 90's CDs are generally fine, and current ones are mostly okay.

But then, there's this -- read the whole thread, it was a rather unpleasant revelation to me when I first experimented with purchasing classical music on iTunes, and it leaves the door open for the issue being just as present in CD manufacture:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/690910/umg-audible-watermarking

Agreed about the painful realities of poverty -- for billions of people, not just millions. That cannot stand, and will not, history has repeatedly proven so.

But I do think it's very important no matter what your circumstances, and mine have certainly been no easy picnic, to remember that there is a lot of your life that you are actually in control of, regardless of whatever kinds of boxes other people might try to put you in. We're all slaves, yes; but we're all free, too, if we choose to be, and many have chosen to be free under far more dire circumstances than those many face now, and have changed the world as a result. That fact should never be forgotten.


----------



## ArtMusic

Nice thread. I don't really need to "own" CDs. I have access to my parents' collection, which is well into a few thousand. I think it's nice to have a good collection readily at hand.


----------



## Sid James

ArtMusic said:


> Interesting, Sid. Curious, when you say "cull" do you literally mean throwing it away in the bin? Or you donate/give some away or sell them or ...?


I always manage to find a good home for them, just like books, to donate. No, I never throw them away!



Vaneyes said:


> OPie, don't feel guilty, just forget the unknown composers and the rest is within reasonable reach. Have fun! :tiphat:


To back track to this, its something that I've on the whole done myself. However with unknown or perhaps more accurately less known composers, books, magazines and online sources like this forum can offer you tips amongst a sea of endless options. Not all unknowns are also-rans. Some just disappeared of the radar but in their day had the clout of the big names, they might have just went out of fashion. In my experience Godowsky and Zemlinsky are like this. They are known on this forum though, and mentioned in many sources, so that's my point.

So too 'one hit wonder' type composers , sometimes the label is justified, sometimes its worth checking out other works by them.

Same the composers who focused on one or two genres, or who are renowned regionally/nationally rather than internationally.

Ultimately individual listeners will prioritise things like their space (physical and psychological), time, money available, what stage they are at whether beginner, intermediate or advanced, and so on.


----------



## hpowders

scratchgolf said:


> My wife just purchased tickets for us to see Beethoven's Two Romances for Violin and Orchestra and the 9th Symphony. The performances are May 1-3 by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. This will be my first live concert in over 20 years and probably the best Birthday gift I'll ever receive.


Thankfully she didn't purchases tickets to the latest chick flick!!!


----------



## scratchgolf

hpowders said:


> Thankfully she didn't purchases tickets to the latest chick flick!!!


She's a good girl and studies her Wes Anderson.


----------



## hpowders

scratchgolf said:


> She's a good girl and studies her Wes Anderson.


Lucky! Just a couple of hours ago I was dragged in front of the TV to watch the movie "Mother and Child".


----------



## Alydon

scratchgolf said:


> Thanks for the responses. I'm not as loopy as I come off but I'm plenty loopy. I really hoped for a serious discussion and I'm not disappointed. I certainly am not looking for pity. What an affliction though: Too much music! I do have a bad habit of overdoing things but I've managed to tone it down when needed. My bottom line desire is to really enjoy a wealth of music for the rest of my existence. It's certainly within my reach.
> 
> .


I don't think there is a mental unbalance about collecting things and a manic compulsion is only really harmful if it falls into the destructive strain: i.e. alcohol or drugs or crazy driving. It is part of human nature to want to belong to something or have something permanent and your collecting is just part of this, and music is one of the most marvellous things to be involved with. I read a quote the other day which said, 'Sometimes the art seems to suggest that life can be as great as the art itself.' In other words art (as in classical music here) is life affirming and something to aspire to, rather than have a derogatory affect on your life.

I believe the need to collect vast quantities of music or anything else diminishes as you mature and grow older. I used to always be on the phone pre-internet days to order yet another slab of box sets and anything else I felt I needed, but now and I think ironically it is because of the ease of being able to order at will online I don't need the physical music in front of me. Also with sites like YouTube you can access any piece anytime. But it is the familiarity of the music which seems to stop me buying so much as after a long time you feel you live with the music itself; it is part of you, and then you begin to believe in 'less is more.'

I understand the feeling of buying into the music when collecting and also there are those who want to have a completest collection, but however many CDs, downloads etc. you collect there will always be that perfect recording out there you haven't got yet.


----------



## millionrainbows

This is true of many things in the digital age. Like on a synthesizer, there will be hundreds of sounds. The trick is to have just a few really good useable sounds.

Here's an idea I got from practicing guitar: use the "magic" number one.

Example: 
I will play _every_ major scale in _one _position.
I will play _one_ major scale in _every_ position.
I will concentrate on_ one _song today.

For listeners, this could be: 
I will listen to _one _composer only today.
I will listen to_ one _form today: chamber music.
I will listen to _one_ symphony, in several versions.

Etc...you get the idea. Try it, it works.


----------



## millionrainbows

Maybe the desire to have things in "sets" relates back to the fact we are bi-pedal; we have two hands, two legs, two eyes, two ears, etc. In this sense, we are "completists."


----------



## millionrainbows

There's a CD for which Robert Crumb did the cover art, called "The World's Most Collectable Records" or something like that. Inside, there is the story of two brothers in New York who collected everything. They had every newspaper going back for 50 years. Stuff was stacked everywhere. Eventually, one of the brothers got crushed when a pile of stuff fell on him. When the police arrived, they couldn't get in the door, and had to chop-in through the roof. They discovered in there, among other things, two automobiles.


----------



## Doc

millionrainbows said:


> There's a CD for which Robert Crumb did the cover art, called "The World's Most Collectable Records" or something like that. Inside, there is the story of two brothers in New York who collected everything. They had every newspaper going back for 50 years. Stuff was stacked everywhere. Eventually, one of the brothers got crushed when a pile of stuff fell on him. When the police arrived, they couldn't get in the door, and had to chop-in through the roof. They discovered in there, among other things, two automobiles.


Here's the Wikipedia link for anyone interested: Wikipedia

The house was full of booby traps, one of which Langley Collyer tripped. The house was too run down to be re-sold, so it was demolished and made into a park. I remember watching a program about the brothers a few months back; very interesting.









A picture of the park ^


----------



## Sonata

I've had that obsession. I'm working on toning is down. I feel at some point it becomes more about consumption tha truly enjoying. At least for me. I want to savor what I already own. (Said ten minutes after ordering a CD!) lol


----------



## SiegendesLicht

I don't have a lot of money to spend on music, and I have other obsessions that demand their share of my finances, so I only buy what I am sure I will enjoy, having listened to that particular music on YouTube many times before. I also usually don't bother about obtaining many recordings of the same piece (the biggest number of various recordings of a piece I own is four), preferring to expand my collection in breadth rather than depth. I have converted all the music I own to mp3 and uploaded it to my laptop to have instant access to all of it, and classical music only makes up about 50GB (about the same amount as non-classical) - not really a huge collection. Plus, I have a habit of listening to the same pieces over and over and over again (I listened only to Schubert's lieder for about a month straight). But sometimes it seems to me I do not know even those pieces I dearly love, as well as I want to know them.


----------



## Guest

With regard to "Sonata's" post, the same or similar has applied to me, as may have been gathered from various other posts I have made recently. 

When I first became seriously interested in classical music, roughly about 15 years ago, I was content to stick with a few main composers and limit myself to the purchase of approximately one CD per week. Those composers were chiefly J S Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Debussy, Elgar, and Holst. That process lasted for several years and I had accumulated about 250 CDs some 5 years later.

It was around that time that my enthusiasm for classical music jumped into a higher gear. I suddenly found that I had a lot more spare time on my hands, having changed jobs from a position in the UK Civil Service to an academic post in a UK university. In the new job, I found that some of my colleagues were keen on classical music, and things took off from there in a big way. They talked about various works and concerts they had heard or been to, and this quite left me standing, as I was not in the same league as many of them in terms of familiarity with the repertoire.

I decided that this state of affairs would change as quickly as I could make it happen. I went into a spending frenzy with regard to compiling what I thought would eventually constitute a decent collection. This was based largely on desk research, as in those days there was not much around in the way of things like Wikipedia and internet forums. I recall acquiring something like an extra 300 CDs in the space of one year. This was about as much as I could cope with as I was not just buying for the sake of it but insisted upon listening to each CD and then deciding upon my next purchase in the light of my appreciation of that work.

In fact, things moved forward in a somewhat haphazard manner and I soon discovered that I was not doing the job very efficiently, being guilty of making both type 1 and type 2 errors. It was around 2005 that I discovered a few interesting internet forums that contained recommended works by various composers. These impressed me and I then based most of my subsequent purchases based on filling out the various gaps in my collection vis-a-vis the recommendations contained in those lists. This process took another 2 years or so, bringing me up to 2007.

It was by at that time that I had acquired quite a good collection overall, but I was still not satisfied with it. I wanted complete coverage of several composers whom I most highly rated at that time: Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, and Debussy. Once I had met this target, I moved on to various other composers to try to achieve the same, although as I moved forward I found that the urge to do so was slowly reducing. By the time I largely finished the job, and got all this out my system, I had acquired virtually complete collections for all of the usual top 10 composers, plus almost complete collections for the next group of 10, and then declining percentages down to about the top 40 composers. Beyond that level, things are more spasmodic, but I am not missing a major work by any of the well-known composers. Overall I now have the works of some 450 composers, taking into account all of the odds and sods I managed to collect on the way.

Do I regret doing any of this? No. It genuinely has provided a lot of entertainment, and in the process I have tried to acquire as much knowledge as possible about several of the bigger name composers. Has it made me feel any better in the company of colleagues who are interested in classical music? Definitely. I am a lot more confident now. Would I recommend the same kind of "completist" approach to other people, assuming they also want to feel as if they will become reasonably on top of the subject one day? Yes, I would. There is nothing more irritating that finding some gaps in your collection that others may refer to, and you do not have it or have not heard it. 

I therefore sympathise with the OP. All I can say is that in my case I never at any stage let my enthusiasm to collect get to the point of it being a worry. I was always in control. That's the important thing, as if at any stage I had found myself buying stuff that I guessed I might not like then I would have become worried. I'm not sure what I would have done about it, but that is fortunately not something I have to be concerned about.


----------



## Ebab

When I was young, I cherished every groove of my records. If I didn't like one track of an album that I'd bought (intrigued by whatever reasons), I gave it a second, a forth, an eighth spin - maybe it'd grow on me, or maybe it'd remain crap. It was probably this point where my musical horizon really grew. And I _knew_ my collection.

With time, my funds grew, I was able to buy more, and my available time shrank. At one time I realized that my collection had grown to a point where


I would _not_ only be able to re-listen to each and every track that I owned in my remaining lifetime 
there were many tracks in my collection that I knew I _liked_ but didn't really _know_ quite as _intensely_ as I would have liked them to know 
there were tracks (buried in some large boxed sets or the like) that I owned, had never listened to, and for some reason or another, would probably _never_ listen to in my lifetime - gems hidden or not 
These points were scary; they made me feel real old, and had me question all my collecting efforts.

I got past that sentiment though. I enjoy music; I'm not a musician or musicologist. As humans, we only have so much time to dedicate to each of our interests, or to other human beings who are dear to us.

Some things must go. There's a German expression: "Mut zur Lücke" - "courage for the gap". I guess there's no other way.


----------



## realdealblues

I admit I have an obsession to own things that I enjoy. I collect a lot of things: Guitars, Amps, Effects, Coins, Books, Magazines, CD's, Records, and probably a few other things I can't recall of the top of my head. 

Now, I can only play one guitar at a time but yet I owned 30 different ones at one time because each one sounded different and played different and depending on the day I wanted a certain sound or was looking for a certain feel based on what I was playing. I like having different options.

Bringing it back to buying recordings though, these days I usually end up getting a bunch of stuff I hadn't intended on getting because of all these boxed sets.

If someone wants as an example: 

Van Cliburn's recording of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1 they can buy the single CD for $11

Or they can buy the a 7CD box set of Van Cliburn Plays Great Piano Concertos which includes lots of other works for $30

So even though I only really wanted the Tchaikovsky, I end up buying the box set because I feel I get more bang for my buck.

I also admit I don't like owning only one part of a set and feel I need to complete things. I want to have the whole set. If Leonard Bernstein has a Beethoven Symphony Cycle I don't want to only have one CD from a set. I want the set so it matches and feels complete.

Same thing with a book series. I can't stand missing a book in a book series. If I like the first book I will probably enjoy all the rest so I go out and buy the entire series. Even if I didn't like book 5 of a series, I wouldn't sell it or get rid of it because it would break up the set. I know others who suffer from that same psychological condition though so I know I'm not alone.

I have started trying to reign in my collecting habits a bit though. There are a lot of works where I have decided I am honestly happy with only owning one or two recordings of.


----------



## Headphone Hermit

I emphasise with Partita's experience, and especially the desire to be able to respond 'sensibly' to other people (probably because I haven't received a formal musical education, can''t play any instrument .... and can't even remember the name of most of the pieces of music that I like or know, even though I can remember how they 'go' when I'm listening) but having completed my PhD (in my 50s!) I fully realise that experts have limits to their knowledge and so I don't have to know everything about the things I'm interested in. 

I've also made a good friendship with a colleague with whom I enjoy chatting about music and (surprise, surprise) there are huge gaps in our knowledge yet that doesn't matter because it gives us the opportunity to delight each other with unfamiliar pieces: for example, I was absolutely delighted when she said she listened to all of Shostakovich's preludes and fugues repeatedly after I gave her them recently as a present and had found them incredibly moving.

For me, collecting more music to cram onto the shelves in my spare room is connected to a joy of exploration - that CD I see in a shop might just open me to another real joy that I would not otherwise have come across (like Maria Yudina's piano playing or Zara Dolukanova's singing or Milstein's revelation of the slow movement of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto for instance. And I know that I'll never hear everything that I want to hear .... isn't it wonderful to know that one's joy of music can continue to expand as time goes on? I just wish I had four or five pairs of ears to use


----------



## scratchgolf

realdeal. Many similarities between us. I hate when things feel incomplete or scattered. I'm also very particular about labeling and organizing. Before I owned an iPod I burned my music onto CDRs. I was very particular about the brand and how I labeled them. If a friend gave me a burned CD I would rip it to my computer and burn it again. It bothered me that it didn't match my collection. If I ran out of CDRs and couldn't find the same brand I'd start over a re-burn all my music. I tend to color coordinate things a lot also. My closet, my books, my DVDs.


----------



## realdealblues

scratchgolf said:


> realdeal. Many similarities between us. I hate when things feel incomplete or scattered. I'm also very particular about labeling and organizing. Before I owned an iPod I burned my music onto CDRs. I was very particular about the brand and how I labeled them. If a friend gave me a burned CD I would rip it to my computer and burn it again. It bothered me that it didn't match my collection. If I ran out of CDRs and couldn't find the same brand I'd start over a re-burn all my music. I tend to color coordinate things a lot also. My closet, my books, my DVDs.


Exact same thing here. All my CDR's are the same brand. I label them all the same way. I've done the same thing when friends have gave me a copy of an album. I reburn it and put it in my own handwriting or whatever way I'm organizing things. I color match things too. I organize everything a certain way. I can't stand a crooked picture frame, etc. So yep, I feel your pain...lol.


----------



## scratchgolf

I'm going slightly off topic here but hey, I started this nonsense. I did some time in Recruiting and we had binders with all the high school students names and phone numbers. They were all hand written and pretty sloppy. I couldn't stand other people's handwriting or blue and black ink on the same document. Some of the pages were copied badly as well so the form was crooked to the page. I took my computer and printer home over the weekend and, after creating a new excel form, typed the contents of every single one (about 25 binders worth). I'm not like this with everything in my life but when something bothers me, it bothers me, and I can't function properly until it's fixed.


----------



## Sid James

Headphone Hermit said:


> I emphasise with Partita's experience, and especially the desire to be able to respond 'sensibly' to other people (probably because I haven't received a formal musical education, can''t play any instrument .... and can't even remember the name of most of the pieces of music that I like or know, even though I can remember how they 'go' when I'm listening) but having completed my PhD (in my 50s!) *I fully realise that experts have limits to their knowledge and so I don't have to know everything about the things I'm interested in*.


That's true, as in any field, experts in music tend specialise in one area or have some sort of focus. Its got similarities to listeners who are in the non-professional category (eg. have no training in music or musicology, etc). I think its fair to say that a good number of people start as generalists then hone in on our interests/passions/obsesions, call them what you will. We gravitate towards a focus.

Its also related to how people are saying that as you get more into classical, there is a tendency to relisten and explore what you've got rather than branch out as much as you did earlier when you where starting out with it. Its the funelling down process that I've used, and again similar to professional musos starting with a degree and then specialising towards the end of their degree or doing further study (postgrad) to focus more or just work in the industry or develop their own interests post-study. Life can be like a university in some ways. A lot of what we do happens after gaining initial knowledge, we build on it and we get more experienced at it as we go along.


----------



## Kevin Pearson

Manxfeeder said:


> So I'm not so much a collector as a hunter. Even if I only hear the CD a couple times, it's still more sustained pleasure than overpriced coffee.


You sound more like a hunter/gatherer to me! 

Kevin


----------



## Kevin Pearson

scratchgolf said:


> As for you, PetrB..... first class response. Really. I knew you had a heart. Your response is much appreciated and your message certainly received. As for live music, I can't wait. I plan on moving my family back to NY where I'll have so many options, with both Cornell and Ithaca College a short drive away. I'm fortunate enough to be very stable, financially and I certainly plan on attending as frequently as possible. I'm certain this will curb my desire to purchase everything and give me something to really look forward to.


Or it could have the effect of creating more desire to own the pieces you have heard live and further works by the composers you enjoy. I think PetrB's advice could go either way. 

I don't see anything wrong with collecting, but for me at least, I find the older I get the less I want to add things to my collection. I know I have less years ahead of me than before me and so I see no need in continuing to build my library with the same zeal I did when I was younger. If I add anything now it's because it's a piece of music that is important for me to own and not just to add to my collection. I used to buy stuff without even thinking much about it but now I add stuff to my shopping cart and many times wind up putting it back as I think about whether I really need it cluttering up my life or not. Occasionally I make the purchase but I find myself doing so much less than I used to.

Kevin


----------



## PetrB

Kevin Pearson said:


> Or it could have the effect of creating more desire to own the pieces you have heard live and further works by the composers you enjoy. I think PetrB's advice could go either way.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with collecting, but for me at least, I find the older I get the less I want to add things to my collection. I know I have less years ahead of me than before me and so I see no need in continuing to build my library with the same zeal I did when I was younger. If I add anything now it's because it's a piece of music that is important for me to own and not just to add to my collection. I used to buy stuff without even thinking much about it but now I add stuff to my shopping cart and many times wind up putting it back as I think about whether I really need it cluttering up my life or not. Occasionally I make the purchase but I find myself doing so much less than I used to.
> 
> Kevin


_*Gasp -- you've pulled the age card *_

But there is far more than a grain of truth to what you have said. Many getting to the later years of life look around one day and wonder if what they have, and more importantly what they are doing to have it _and whom for _ is at all worth pursuing as they have in the past -- i.e. they assess, or reassess, their personal relationship with and the meaning of 'all that.'

At a point of age, usually between mid-forties ("mid-life crisis") and / or later, many will come to some similar conclusion that in a manner of speaking they have been on a hamster-wheel not of their own construct and choosing, to purchase things more because it was expected than those things needed, to 'prove' to others one has arrived at a certain level of status which is part of a competitive social game.

Come a point where an individual realizes who and what they are, regardless of their earlier idea of accomplishments, goals hoped for (and the outside recognition and approval), whatever anyone else thinks of them, their status, etc. brings a closer scrutiny and leads many to no longer care -- at all -- what others think of them with those criteria as the basis of 'value.'

The bald fact you are looking at a very real "less time in front of you than behind you," is often the catalyzing factor in the shift of how you view "just about everything," but most critically, how you spend your time, with whom and what.


----------



## Sid James

Kevin Pearson said:


> ...If I add anything now it's because it's a piece of music that is important for me to own and not just to add to my collection. I used to buy stuff without even thinking much about it but now I add stuff to my shopping cart and many times wind up putting it back as I think about whether I really need it cluttering up my life or not. Occasionally I make the purchase but I find myself doing so much less than I used to.
> 
> ...


Same here and one thing I ask myself is "do I want this forever?" Will I keep it forever or am I likely to cull it? Past experience shows me what I culled - majority was vocal, a lot of it opera. So now especially in buying those genres I buy what is likely to stay there, not get weeded out. Its not surprising that now with some genres I use more caution but it doesn't mean I don't buy them at all.


----------



## KenOC

Sid James said:


> Same here and one thing I ask myself is "do I want this forever?" Will I keep it forever or am I likely to cull it?


Life is a process of acquiring and culling. In the end, we cull all. Deep thought for the night.


----------



## Guest

scratchgolf said:


> realdeal. Many similarities between us. I hate when things feel incomplete or scattered. I'm also very particular about labeling and organizing.


I think there may be quite a few similarities between several of us here, member realdealblues included and maybe some others.

I am also very fussy about correct labelling of my music collection. My entire stock is on my PC and I like to be able to gain quick access to anything I might fancy listening to. In many cases, I have multiple copies of the same work, and I like to make sure that each version is identically described. For example, if it is say Schumann's Symphony No 1, each version I have must be described thus: _Op 38 - Symphony No 1 in B flat major, 'Spring'_. If I happened to play this work and notice that any of several versions I have was not as stated, even so much as a missing comma after "major", I would set about correcting and harmonising each of the different versions.

Another thing that I do, which some might consider to be over-fussy, is that after ripping a CD I run the file through "Audacity" to ensure that everything is exactly as I like it in terms of things like the volume amplitude, run-in time, and time gaps between movements. For this purpose, I apply a set of standard volume levels according to each music genre. By doing this I can play a whole load of tracks from different composers without worrying about variations in the volume level for that particular kind of music etc. By tackling potential volume variation problems at source, I find that this procedure is better than using the automatic volume adjustment feature incorporated into some music players.

I am also fussy about periodic culling of any recordings that I do not think worthy of being included. For example, recently I got rid of about 100 or so MP3 128 kbit downloads that I made some 7-8 years ago. Before being thrown out, I checked if there was anything unique among them and spotted only about 10 files that I wanted to keep. But here I went back to Amazon and downloaded the same pieces again at higher bit rates. I tend also to get rid of any files where I happen to notice any sound problems. If it's a rare recording I will keep that recording, but if it's not rare and if I have other versions of that work that are at least by equally reputable performers I'll bin the dodgy one without any remorse.

Looking after my CD collection and keeping it in tip-top condition is as important to me as looking after all my other cherished possessions. I never used to be all that bothered when my collection was relatively small, but now that it is quite sizeable, and that I enjoy listening to it more so than previously, it has become a much higher priority to keep it ship-shape. For me, it has very high value (more than I paid for it) because it represents the culmination of over 15 years effort, the hardest parts of which were deciding what to buy, all the ripping, and deciding upon the best file layout on my PC. I'm often tinkering around with the layout, an activity that I enjoy whilst I listen. That's the trick, to make sure that what you do in this area is not a chore but a delight.


----------



## Guest

KenOC said:


> Life is a process of acquiring and culling. In the end, we cull all. Deep thought for the night.


In the end we get culled, I'm afraid. Good night.


----------



## science

I used to worry about this kind of thing, but not anymore. I've heard most of the music I've got several times, and as long as I buy less than a couple hours per typical day I'll be able to listen faster than I buy, so what the heck? I've got the money (for now at least), I love the music, and this is what I do instead of buying a boat or a sports car. 

So I'm gonna go on buying unselfconsciously whatever I want to listen to, and not worry unless I get one of those really large piles of music I haven't listened to yet. Right now my pile is probably 50 hours large, so I could get it done in a few days if I put my mind to it. But I don't feel any urge to rush either. I do this for fun, after all. If someone will pay me, I'll do it more quickly than I want to. Since no one is paying me, I'll get to it at my sweetest pleasure. 

I figure my amazon.com wish list is at least a decade long (in terms of my current rate of consumption) and the truth is I might decide I don't want a pretty good deal of that before I spend my money on it. But I hope I have that decade, and about two more after that, three if I'm lucky, four or five if I'm super lucky. (May all the gods speed medical research!) 

I never listen to youtube unless I actually own the music anyway, because I want to do my own tiny little part in supporting the artists who make the music that I love. Services like Spotify are ok with me, but my preferred way is still to own an actual disk, because it feels more secure to me. I might download more mp3s in the future, as I become more comfortable with this newfangled technology.


----------



## starry

scratchgolf said:


> When starting a collection, whether music, wine, books, etc., many people tend to choose quantity over quality.


To find the quality you have to go through the quantity. And of course you'll never have everything that's good, but at least by branching out and exploring (which is even easier with the internet now) you can find your own path. And I suppose it is more about the journey than about some final destination.


----------



## Blake

starry said:


> To find the quality you have to go through the quantity. And of course you'll never have everything that's good, but at least by branching out and exploring (which is even easier with the internet now) you can find your own path. *And I suppose it is more about the journey than about some final destination.*


I think it's both, but with a heavy lean on the destination. I don't want to go through this expedition without hearing some great music. Just like I wouldn't take a trip to Fiji just for the plane ride.


----------



## millionrainbows

The way I see it, there's a right way to do things, and a wrong way. That's not perfectionism.


----------



## starry

Vesuvius said:


> I think it's both, but with a heavy lean on the destination. I don't want to go through this expedition without hearing some great music. Just like I wouldn't take a trip to Fiji just for the plane ride.


But finding great music is part of the journey, what exactly what be the destination? There is no end point really.


----------



## Blake

starry said:


> But finding great music is part of the journey, what exactly what be the destination? There is no end point really.


I look at each piece as a destination. And when you're time with it is done, get on with the journey until the next one.


----------



## SARDiver

scratchgolf said:


> I was actually in a music store (Hastings) today while my wife was buying blah blah at the blah blah store. I was perusing the classical section (smaller than the Alaskan Hip-Hop section) and saw a CD titled "Beethoven's Greatest Hits". I resisted the urge (to vomit). Really? Greatest Hits?


HA! That sounds like "Highlights from Hamlet" in an old Mel Brooks movie.


----------



## SARDiver

Just finished reading most of this thread, and it's a good topic. I can relate to the obsession over cigars, as I once turned an Igloo cooler into a humidor to house my own collection.

I sometimes jump in with both feet and go into "acquisition mode", but that's only after I've studied and learned about what I'm collecting, although sometimes the collection is simply a means to more capabilities and knowledge. (I'm referring to various dive certifications, in this specific case.) For me, it's not so much a need to control as it is a desire to experience. I become bored easily, and after a couple of years, I move onto something else and attempt to master it, or at least become satisfied with what I know or can do. 

I'm here precisely to avoid the "quantity over quality" tendency that I can fall into. I've purchased my share of strange "greatest hits" boxed sets, and have been more or less satisfied. Because there is so much in the classical music genre, it makes sense for me to look for a few specific "must haves" and let the interest grow or shrink from there.


----------



## Centropolis

I also think that it's like any other interests/hobbies we have. I've been through phases where I would just keep buying certain things because they were interesting to me. I used to collect flashlights (over 40 of them at one point). And these are not ones you'd get at Walmart. These are Surefires, Novatacs, HDS Systems etc. I also went through a phase not too long ago of buying affordable watches ($100 to $300 range). Then I lost interest. I still like watches but I haven't bought one in months.


----------



## starry

Centropolis said:


> I also think that it's like any other interests/hobbies we have.


I'd like to think music can be more interactive than some hobbies, with a view into different cultures and a vast amount of creativity.


----------



## PetrB

A "True Collector's Pursuit" is not always about direct pleasure in each thing owned, but is driven by an urgent and ardent want for a "complete-ism."

I.e. if they have decided on collecting mass-made ceramics from post WWII American occupied Japan, they cannot rest until they have at least one of each type produced during that era. Anything less is an unacceptable gap in the overall panoply of their collection.

So now, how many here saying they are collectors are actually collectors  ???


----------



## Sid James

science said:


> ...
> 
> I never listen to youtube unless I actually own the music anyway, because *I want to do my own tiny little part in supporting the artists who make the music that I love.* Services like Spotify are ok with me, but my preferred way is still to own an actual disk, because it feels more secure to me. I might download more mp3s in the future, as I become more comfortable with this newfangled technology.


That part I put in bold makes sense, not only in buying music but also supporting the local music scene, the local classical groups that play the music we love, to paraphrase you (not blow ins, I mean local groups, people on the ground here).

Other thing about hoarding and the OCD thing (this is general info for those interested!) is to get an old fashioned piggy bank. Put your silver or gold coins in it. Once your reach a certain amount, buy a cd or download with it, or go to a live gig. Its a way of imposing control if one's purchases are out of control, or if the impulse is a problem.

Another strategy is to set a portion of the budget aside, say on a fornightly basis, for music related spending. The changes in the budget should be minimal from fortnight to fortnight, to avoid splurging. Once in a while, for your birthday or say a special holiday like we just had (Christmas) treat yourself a bit. At the start of the year you might also like to buy a subscription to a concert series.

I just go back to what I said about that acquaintance who lived at a time when things where more restricted. Now things are not restricted at all. So we've got to impose our own restrictions if there is a need to regarding OCD and so on. Again its up to the individual to impement these solutions for themselves, its a personal choice.


----------



## scratchgolf

Sid James said:


> That part I put in bold makes sense, not only in buying music but also supporting the local music scene, the local classical groups that play the music we love, to paraphrase you (not blow ins, I mean local groups, people on the ground here).
> 
> Other thing about hoarding and the OCD thing (this is general info for those interested!) is to get an old fashioned piggy bank. Put your silver or gold coins in it. Once your reach a certain amount, buy a cd or download with it, or go to a live gig. Its a way of imposing control if one's purchases are out of control, or if the impulse is a problem.
> 
> Another strategy is to set a portion of the budget aside, say on a fornightly basis, for music related spending. The changes in the budget should be minimal from fortnight to fortnight, to avoid splurging. Once in a while, for your birthday or say a special holiday like we just had (Christmas) treat yourself a bit. At the start of the year you might also like to buy a subscription to a concert series.
> 
> I just go back to what I said about that acquaintance who lived at a time when things where more restricted. Now things are not restricted at all. So we've got to impose our own restrictions if there is a need to regarding OCD and so on. Again its up to the individual to impement these solutions for themselves, its a personal choice.


I do the piggy bank (coffee can) thing as well. All my loose change, plus an occasional bill or two, go inside. I've been doing this for years to let finances "sneak up on me" and purchase something I've been wanting. My last purchase? A 160gb iPod. Unfortunately, the saving up was thrifty, but the contents of the iPod were not.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being organized as long as you can function normally. My wife is a "clean as you go" person. I'm a "tear it apart and start from scratch" person. She's more organized than I am but it's natural for her. My tendencies come from a need to feel organized, and usually from being the exact opposite. It becomes problematic when I do things like delete and reorganize my iTunes library every few months, as that takes precedence over listening. In my mind I feel like I'll enjoy the music more if it's organized. In reality I get little enjoyment.


----------



## SixFootScowl

PetrB said:


> A "True Collector's Pursuit" is not always about direct pleasure in each thing owned, but is driven by an urgent and ardent want for a "complete-ism."
> 
> I.e. if they have decided on collecting mass-made ceramics from post WWII American occupied Japan, they cannot rest until they have at least one of each type produced during that era. Anything less is an unacceptable gap in the overall panoply of their collection.
> 
> So now, how many here saying they are collectors are actually collectors  ???


I think that is what I have done with my Johnny Winter collection. I have just about every CD (skipping some that were duplication of same music) along with a couple fist fulls of bootleg downloads of concerts. Probably total well over 100 CDs and concerts, perhaps as much as 150.


----------



## Silkenblack

Whatever interesting I find browsing stores, I extend the attention phase to the fullest. I just go back home, and let the item do its worming inside my brain. Next 24 hours tell. If I must have the product, I do the Canossa walk to the store, but with determination and pride. Buying in haste is is bad.


----------



## bharbeke

This is a fascinating and relevant topic, not only regarding classical music but collecting and life choices in general. Everyone will have different values and preferences, but I think it's important for people to periodically stop and assess what they want from a hobby and whether they are still enjoying it. Also, is there something else that the time and money could be better spent on?

My time, budget, and space have all shrunk over the last few years as new people have entered my life and taken precedence. Now, I try to sample before I buy whenever possible.

We will never have or do everything. There are external limitations that get in the way (lifespan, rarity, hours in the day). Accepting that, it is important to limit ourselves in ways that make sense for us. One collecting community has the axiom "Do one thing, and do it well." It doesn't have to mean literally one, but the sense is that we should follow our passions. Let's say that I am mostly into concertos and symphonies (true). I can listen to and buy the occasional oboe quartet that truly speaks to me, but I will wind up coming back to my area of specialization. I don't have to buy other oboe quartets out of completist desire.


----------



## scratchgolf

I currently prefer Symphonies and Concertos. Mostly Romantic Symphonies and Baroque Concertos. Just a phase, I'm sure, but they serve two very different purposes: Intense focus and light listening. And when I hear a Concerto I really love, the little devil on my shoulder says, "Buy every Concerto ever recorded." Then the angel on my other shoulder says, "Don't look at me. It sounds reasonable."


----------



## GiulioCesare

Cheyenne said:


> I don't have a lot of money and am always attempting to restrain myself in material pursuits. I rarely purchase books I can't read online (that is to say, books that are out of print and available on Project Gutenberg or Archive.org), I rarely purchase films (preferring online services), and I rarely purchase video games at their full retail price, rather waiting for the price to drop. As for CDs - well, given how many things I've wanted to purchase but haven't, I think I don't have to be embarrassed. Life may be short and art long, but that's no reason to go hoarding.
> 
> But why speak when you can show? My great collector's wall:
> 
> View attachment 31863
> 
> 
> Not too bad, no? The Messaien edition wasn't all that necessary, and some of the CDs weren't exactly worth the purchase, but beyond those most are listened to fairly frequently. Otherwise I use Spotify or even Youtube.
> 
> I feel the urge to collect all the time, but I tell myself to calm down; I attempt to scrutinize the impulse with reason. As Huneker wrote of Brahms, "he is a chilly friend at first, but the clasp of the hand is true, if it is not always charmful."


Those Sony RCA boxsets are great bang for your buck.


----------



## cournot

I've just joined this forum and find this recent thread fascinating. I find that being obsessive about recordings is related to my enjoyment of music itself. I spent many years building up a huge CD and LP collection, developing a mid level audiophile stereo system, and regularly going to concerts. I used to have to have season tickets to the symphony and would go to concerts at different venues on trips abroad. My wife is not as crazy about this as I am so it was often inconvenient. Still I heard fantastic performances over many years in LA, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Paris, Budapest, and St. Petersberg. In fact, the mania for collecting and comparing performances was so strong it actively interfered with my work. When I had to move to a new city, I divested myself of a lot of dross and reduced my collection to a mere  thousand or so CDs and perhaps 1500 vinyl lps. But then I stopped going to the symphony regularly and stopped buying new cds and I found I stopped listening to much music altogether, except for a few binges a couple of times a year.
But I recently had to change a piece of equipment that went bad, and I started to dig into my collection to evaluate its performance. At which point I discovered that in the death throes of the CD the labels are issuing super budget boxes like crazy. So now here I am going through dozens of old recordings, waiting for my Bernstein Century big box, downloading the various cheapie budget MP3 boxes on Amazon, and debating with myself as to how long I must wait before I spring for the Walter box and then maybe something for Reiner or Giulini or Karajan or Decca. And I find I've listened to more music in the last week than in all of 2013. I keep thinking this will end badly. But I might as well go with the flow...


----------



## scratchgolf

I'm bumping this because I have something to add. I don't remember what so I'll come back to it.


----------



## OldFashionedGirl

My problem is not the obsession, is the money.


----------



## gHeadphone

I think im starting to develop a problem too. Im only collecting 1 year and i seem to have almost as many cds as some of the more experienced collectors!

Maybe i need to cool off and listen to more of what i have (probably listened to about 25% of it so far).

Im working my way through the BBC 50 greatest recordings, Gramophones 75 essentials recordings and 100 greatest, Classic CDs 100 greatest, the Top opera collection on this site, once i get those ill probably start on more lists, is there no end......


----------



## ptr

I don't obsess to own everything, I just want all of the cherry's!

/ptr


----------



## scratchgolf

Part of the reason I've bumped this thread is because I've recently fallen into possession of a large quantity of new music. Some of which I already own in versions and others which are completely new to me. I'd like to say this condition has improved but I've actually begun deleting music which I'll "probably never get around to". This was not what I intended at any point of my musical discovery.


----------



## scratchgolf

ptr said:


> I don't obsess to own everything, I just want all of the cherry's!
> 
> /ptr


This actually sounds extremely dangerous. Proceed with caution my friend.


----------



## ArtMusic

I think it looks very cultured to have an impression collection of CDs on their shelves.


----------



## Dim7

I have the obsession to pwn everyone.


----------



## Morimur

ArtMusic said:


> I think it looks very cultured to have an impression collection of CDs on their shelves.


_"When I hear 'culture' . . . I unlock my Browning!" - Hanns Johst_


----------



## Bulldog

ArtMusic said:


> I think it looks very cultured to have an impression collection of CDs on their shelves.


I'm very impressed with my collection because I'm the one who bought it; other folks don't care. I know my wife isn't impressed; she thinks about all the dollars involved.


----------



## Tedski

Great post, bro (post #12).


----------



## Bulldog

gHeadphone said:


> I think im starting to develop a problem too. Im only collecting 1 year and i seem to have almost as many cds as some of the more experienced collectors!
> 
> Maybe i need to cool off and listen to more of what i have (probably listened to about 25% of it so far).
> 
> Im working my way through the BBC 50 greatest recordings, Gramophones 75 essentials recordings and 100 greatest, Classic CDs 100 greatest, the Top opera collection on this site, once i get those ill probably start on more lists, is there no end......


A couple of suggestions:

For record collectors, the listening (although fantastic) is not the sole area of enjoyment. There's a whole world of classical recordings competing for our money, and we get to pick the ones to buy. Then, we hunt them down - that's exhilarating on its own terms. Then we hit the peak with our listening experiences. We enjoy the entire process, so forget about the 25%. Most of us have been conditioned to feel that we shouldn't buy more than we can listen to; junk that notion and have a good time.

Personally, I'm not a fan of acquiring the BBC top this or Classic CD top that. I don't want to buy based on somebody else's list; I want a list of my own creation. It sounds like you have a great many cd's; you must have particular composers, genres and time periods you are finding most enjoyable. So acquire based on your current preferences with a nod now and then for something new.


----------



## GreenMamba

I do not feel an obsession to own everything, whether it be music or anything else. I am pretty good at resisting the consumption impulse. I've always been a saver.


----------



## Guest

I love music but I hate possessions, material goods, ownership, clutter....

I have purges of stuff regularly, including CDs.

I feel no need for all this stuff, it's just a means to an end; I only have a finite amount of time....


----------



## brotagonist

GreenMamba said:


> I do not feel an obsession to own everything, whether it be music or anything else. I am pretty good at resisting the consumption impulse. I've always been a saver.


Me, too  As I have often indicated, I am not a completist, but I am also a savvy shopper and manage to stretch my dollar pretty well, so I can regularly allow myself the pleasure of getting things I can't really afford, like mountains of CDs all at once  I am, however, also very good at resisting the impulse to buy for the sake of having and deciding what I really want long term.


----------



## ArtMusic

Bulldog said:


> I'm very impressed with my collection because I'm the one who bought it; other folks don't care. I know my wife isn't impressed; she thinks about all the dollars involved.


What I find "impressive" is having so much great music at our "finger tips" - walk up to the shelf, pick one out and press play.


----------



## michaels

I clearly have a "problem" because I have 20+ "Box Sets" with massive numbers of CDs I still haven't imported... all stuff I want to listen to... when will I rip becomes an even bigger question!


----------



## Baregrass

OldFashionedGirl said:


> My problem is not the obsession, is the money.


So true. My weakness is Vivaldi and I have to stop and think, do I really need the 50th rendition of RV..whatever number. And then I see where Giuliano Carmignola has a new CD out of Vivaldi late concertos. Need I say more?


----------



## ArtMusic

Baregrass said:


> So true. My weakness is Vivaldi and I have to stop and think, do I really need the 50th rendition of RV..whatever number. And then I see where Giuliano Carmignola has a new CD out of Vivaldi late concertos. Need I say more?


Start collecting Vivaldi operas, dare I say?


----------



## gHeadphone

Bulldog said:


> A couple of suggestions:
> 
> For record collectors, the listening (although fantastic) is not the sole area of enjoyment. There's a whole world of classical recordings competing for our money, and we get to pick the ones to buy. Then, we hunt them down - that's exhilarating on its own terms. Then we hit the peak with our listening experiences. We enjoy the entire process, so forget about the 25%. Most of us have been conditioned to feel that we shouldn't buy more than we can listen to; junk that notion and have a good time.
> 
> Personally, I'm not a fan of acquiring the BBC top this or Classic CD top that. I don't want to buy based on somebody else's list; I want a list of my own creation. It sounds like you have a great many cd's; you must have particular composers, genres and time periods you are finding most enjoyable. So acquire based on your current preferences with a nod now and then for something new.


Thanks Bulldog, glad im not alone in my mild madness!

Because im still relatively new i dont have the breath of experience yet to focus more narrowly (and i would be denying myself areas that i havent learned to appreciate yet). However i am starting to develop specific tastes so hopefully that will continue.

Before using the top 50 lists i thought that i was only interested in Symphonic music. So i was surprised (and a little disappointed if im to be honest) that there was so much opera, solo piano work, chamber etc on these lists as i thought i wouldnt enjoy it as much.

However i find that im now listening to La Traviata, the Magic Flute (neither on the list btw) and the Ring more than anything else over the past month so the lists have really helped me (along with this site and John in Tower Records in Dublin).

I think the main thing ive learned so far is to be open-minded and to listen to as much music as i can.


----------



## Art Rock

With the recent buzz about the dirt-cheap 65CD Handel box on Amazon (going for 20 USD or so), I was sorely tempted to get one, even though I don't like Handel, and the 10 or so CD's that I have of him are more than enough. I even put it in the shopping basket, but after a few days I decided not to do it (and now the opportunity is gone). A sign of addiction (otherwise why contemplate buying at all?), but also a sign that there is still hope.


----------



## ArtMusic

Art Rock said:


> With the recent buzz about the dirt-cheap 65CD Handel box on Amazon (going for 20 USD or so), I was sorely tempted to get one, even though I don't like Handel, and the 10 or so CD's that I have of him are more than enough. I even put it in the shopping basket, but after a few days I decided not to do it (and now the opportunity is gone). A sign of addiction (otherwise why contemplate buying at all?), but also a sign that there is still hope.


As much as I really like BrilliantClassics (an excellent source of seldom recorded music from many periods), I have to say that collection of 65 Handel CD music is not on par with the best or near acceptable standard especially of the large scale pieces. They released similarly before and all were modern instrument / non-HIP recordings, that even I found the samples I listened to very boring. I avoided the previous Handel collection.


----------



## Mika

My current issue is too cheap music. From local libraries I can easily collect hundreds of interesting records and I never have time to listen them. Also hard drives are too cheap - I have close to 2tb of data waiting for listening session. Third topic makes me mad even more : I seldom listen same record twice.


----------



## brotagonist

You sound somewhat jaded or overwhelmed, Mika. It sounds like you have done a lot of exploring—and discovered lots—and now might be the time to focus on what you appreciate the most. You can relax and rejoice that the rest of it will still be there for you when you again decide to expand your focus.

I can also find myself getting overwhelmed by the magnitude of the available music. As an antidote, I like to return to what really interests me right now.


----------



## scratchgolf

Art Rock said:


> With the recent buzz about the dirt-cheap 65CD Handel box on Amazon (going for 20 USD or so), I was sorely tempted to get one, even though I don't like Handel, and the 10 or so CD's that I have of him are more than enough. I even put it in the shopping basket, but after a few days I decided not to do it (and now the opportunity is gone). A sign of addiction (otherwise why contemplate buying at all?), but also a sign that there is still hope.


The fact I read your post thoroughly and mostly share your opinion of Handel, yet immediately looked to see if it was still available tells you everything you need to know about me. It's hopeless. This coming from the guy who bought the complete works of Cherubini without having heard a single note.

BTW, my Schubert Box (Brilliant) arrived last week. Love it!


----------



## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> I've been purchasing recordings all my life, but I've never been interested in building a collection. I only buy a recording when I want to listen to a piece. Thankfully, I'm not interested in stamps, coins, pottery, etc.


God, that's so pragmatic! I wish I was like that.

With the help of the audio industry, I have acquired another affliction: Having the latest, best mastering of everything. That new Bernstein/Mahler symphony set with the red "Carnegie Hall Presents" promises to sound fantasic, if it's anywhere close to the Terry Riley "In C" remaster with the same Carnegie Hall label on front.

I've bought Procol Harum's complete catalog four times. They keep doing better covers, more bonus tracks, etc.

I've bought Frank Zappa's catalogue twice in CD, not counting the original vinyl; now I'm looking at a third CD remastering.


----------



## Morimur

'Quality over quantity' is my philosophy.


----------



## trazom

You don't always have to purchase the music before you can listen to it: I've been able to find some pretty obscure classical music works on youtube. Maybe some people get just as much, if not more, pleasure out of owning and looking at the music on their shelf as they do from listening to it. For me, it's more important to be able to say that I _know_ a piece, or that I can recognize it if someone played a clip of it, than it is for me to say I own a highly respected recording of it.


----------



## Baregrass

ArtMusic said:


> Start collecting Vivaldi operas, dare I say?


I have tried his operas but to no avail. Since I love his music so much I thought I might as well dip my feet into his opera pond. But no go. I am not really an opera fan to begin with but Rossini and Verdi go down well with me. Someone, I can't recollect who, wrote that when going through Vivaldi's operas he began to realize that they truly are of another place and another age and aren't that well suited for modern audiences. It would seem that the statement applies to me. Too bad because some of the music in them is utterly beautiful.


----------



## millionrainbows

Morimur said:


> 'Quality over quantity' is my philosophy.


Then you are not immune from "new remaster syndrome." Beware!


----------



## TwoPhotons

I did at one point tell myself that I would go out there and collect as much as possible. However, I'm the sort of person that can listen to a work I enjoy over and over again until I've practically memorised it in my head, in other words, my listening habits are quality over quantity. If I listen to something I don't enjoy I instantly think about another piece of music I've been listening to which I enjoy and go to listen to that for the 101st time instead. Therefore collecting became a waste of money for me and now I simply go out and buy whatever I'm interested in, after discovering it on Qobuz or Youtube. (Although I do pay for Qobuz I do still like to have pieces of music on my hard drive!).


----------



## Musicophile

I'm also, in spite of subscribing to Qobuz Sublime, purchasing a lot of music. 

But in the end, somebody has to make sure the musicians still do make a living!


----------



## SONNET CLV

*Obsession to Own Everything *

No.
My current turntable rig won't play 78s.


----------



## starthrower

millionrainbows said:


> Then you are not immune from "new remaster syndrome." Beware!


Half the time the remaster sounds worse. I got started re-buying the Zappa titles a few years ago, but I stopped after 8 or 9 CDs. You classical fanatics with your 20 versions of this, and 30 versions of that are crazy! And I'll never buy one of those huge box sets with 50-80 CDs. I don't care how cheap it is.


----------



## tomee

I'm about to go off to pick up 1300+ classical CDs for less than $500. Where does that fit in?
These are from an estate sale of an avid well organized 'completist' collector. However, family and friends have picked through some of it and the organized collection is now scattered in a dozen boxes, so what is still complete is not known. 

So, this is on top of my having picked up about 400 CDs costing on average a $2 each in the past year at thrift stores. In the past I would sort them by my interests (which for me is violin, piano, then orchestral, then everything else...), and listen to as many as I can before getting more. When buying 5 to 10 a week this was manageable. But this lot...it'll take years to get through. I may end never hearing many, I may end up not liking many. My hope is 200 are great finds, and I did well with my money. 

So my point is this is very different than carefully selecting what to get, and buying only that, even at $20 a CD. It's like I'm on a random, 'shotgun' approach to acquiring, and I'm not sure I like it. But I also have a hard time not buying CDs at 50cents each! I guess this is where will-power and values comes in. 
Oh, and BTW, it's not about having a big collection to show off to friends-on the contrary the 'collection' is mostly kept out of sight at home. (As well, having lots of CDs these days seems to be seen as a sign you live under a rock, and have never heard of the 'internet'... )

I think, after digesting this latest lot, I'll start looking at digital downloads as way to get new music. Carefully selected music. Maybe I'll like that better?


----------



## SixFootScowl

tomee said:


> I'm about to go off to pick up 1300+ classical CDs for less than $500. Where does that fit in?
> These are from an estate sale of an avid well organized 'completist' collector. However, family and friends have picked through some of it and the organized collection is now scattered in a dozen boxes, so what is still complete is not known.
> 
> So, this is on top of my having picked up about 400 CDs costing on average a $2 each in the past year at thrift stores. In the past I would sort them by my interests (which for me is violin, piano, then orchestral, then everything else...), and listen to as many as I can before getting more. When buying 5 to 10 a week this was manageable. But this lot...it'll take years to get through. I may end never hearing many, I may end up not liking many. My hope is 200 are great finds, and I did well with my money.
> 
> So my point is this is very different than carefully selecting what to get, and buying only that, even at $20 a CD. It's like I'm on a random, 'shotgun' approach to acquiring, and I'm not sure I like it. But I also have a hard time not buying CDs at 50cents each! I guess this is where will-power and values comes in.
> Oh, and BTW, it's not about having a big collection to show off to friends-on the contrary the 'collection' is mostly kept out of sight at home. (As well, having lots of CDs these days seems to be seen as a sign you live under a rock, and have never heard of the 'internet'... )
> 
> I think, after digesting this latest lot, I'll start looking at digital downloads as way to get new music. Carefully selected music. Maybe I'll like that better?


Many would love to be in your position. I would probably sort the new collection and put aside those I know I don't want for resale to my local record shop. Then shelve the rest and listen as I please. I have 6 CDs I got from a garage sale last summer that were not even opened, for $1 each, and I have only opened one, but they are keepers.

I don't know, download tracks is just not my style. I like having the disc,case and artwork--even though they reside in boxes stashed in the basement. Of course he who has nothing but downloaded tracks will have much less stuff for others to sort through when he leaves this world.


----------



## Pugg

I like having the disc,case and artwork--even though they reside in boxes _stashed in the basement._

As the Mac said to the referee..." you can not be serious" ?


----------



## Wood

My approach is to have a never-ending search for the ultimate piece of music, played in the best possible way. I know I'll never achieve this objective, but it is very rewarding to try over and over again. That is my approach to all of my interests, be it the perfect motorcycle ride, the finest pint of real ale etc. I consume one item after another with the ambition of being rewarded by it being the best ever.

It is all about the futile search for me, and it is great, for it can clearly never become a completest obsession.


----------



## tomee

Well, I picked them all up, and my initial apprehention is gone - I feel very fortunate to have this opportunity. The collection is varied but the selections seem to be well thought out. Many are NAXOS (30%ish) but of these they are often multidisk collections, or the historical performance type (78 transcriptions?).
Anyway, only one night lost sleep worrying about buying or not. Also, I learned that about 240 cds fit in a 2 cubic foot moving box, so 12 boxes is now 5. 



Florestan said:


> Many would love to be in your position. I would probably sort the new collection and put aside those I know I don't want for resale to my local record shop. Then shelve the rest and listen as I please. ......


Local used shops are not buying classical CDs. none. Old classic rock LPs yes, classical CDs, no. Even the majority of classical LPs end up in the $1 bin in the LP shops.
My plan is what you suggest, sort and sell the extras off, probably ebay as this is the only outlet these days.

As for downloads - with no physical storage restrictions, I think the record companies realize that people will eventually get used to buying lots of music even if it's listened to once (or never). Subscription streaming services are an extension of this (as long as you keep paying, your collection exisits). Not sure I'll get used to it, but my daughter has and will most likely never buy a physical CD in her life.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> I like having the disc,case and artwork--even though they reside in boxes _stashed in the basement._
> 
> As the Mac said to the referee..." you can not be serious" ?


Safely stashed away anyway, but I would love to have the CDs on shelving in a dedicated listening room so I could access them easily, but I am beginning to categorize them. But the music is all on a computer drive so I can easily copy to my mp3 player or burn a disk to listen in the car.


----------



## manyene

Probably guilty as charged, but I continue to find composers new to me. I think like foreign travel, it is comforting to know that there is still a lot of music out there to find, explore and enjoy.


----------



## emoh88

With about 15.000 items I consider myself rather modest compared to some.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Safely stashed away anyway, but I would love to have the CDs on shelving in a dedicated listening room so I could access them easily, but I am beginning to categorize them. But the music is all on a computer drive so I can easily copy to my mp3 player or burn a disk to listen in the car.


Thank heavens,looking after your CD's and DVD's and in my case L.P's is essential in once life. 
That's my humble opinion of cause.:tiphat:


----------



## senza sordino

I once had an obsession to own every violin concerto, but that ended when I realized that I couldn't physically store that many CDs in my apartment and also that some aren't very interesting to listen to.


----------



## science

I find some comfort in knowing that I own the physical object, even when it's in someone else's home. 

I would buy more of them too, if it weren't for this darned budget. But heck, I saw Redwoods NP today and I'll see Sequoia tomorrow. Could be worse. Hopefully someday I'll be in the CD/DVD market again.


----------



## Blancrocher

emoh88 said:


> With about 15.000 items I consider myself rather modest compared to some.


On another thread I joked about having spent $200,000 on new cds last year, but worried some of the collectors around here might not take that as a joke. I edited the post to change the number to $400,000. But even that may not have been enough.

Welcome to the forum, btw.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Blancrocher said:


> On another thread I joked about having spent $200,000 on new cds last year, but worried some of the collectors around here might not take that as a joke. I edited the post to change the number to $400,000. But even that may not have been enough.
> 
> Welcome to the forum, btw.


And I was concerned that I spent about $500 in the past 4 months.


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> And I was concerned that I spent about $500 in the past 4 months.


As along, as you and those are dear to you are happy and not feeling hungry....:cheers:


----------



## TxllxT

Obsession? No, just a pastime.


----------



## Woodduck

The desire for a "collection" has diminished over the years, my rate of acquisition enormously slowed by a slower rate of listening and the realization that I'll never hear every scrap of music I already have. At a certain point I had the idea of accumulating a good library of recordings, a fairly deep cross-section of classical music history, though I knew and didn't care that there would always be gaps. But somewhere around 4000 CDs I realized that I was overwhelmed and didn't actually need to own music in order to hear it. Now I listen a lot to music online and only buy when I find something really tempting really cheap, or just can't help yielding to old urges and habits.


----------



## candi

I'm in the opposite camp and collect glacially, and only after I have sampled the music online to make sure it suits me. Starting a year ago, I have 13 hip baroque cds. 

Hoarding a small collection, I get to listen everything i buy. The time consuming part is choosing which artist/version to go after and waiting for that CD to be at a low price. Because I eschew box sets, abused discs and duplicating owned music, it's slooooooow.


----------



## Blancrocher

TxllxT said:


> Obsession? No, just a pastime.


This _may_ be true, TxllxT, but I'm afraid whenever someone on TC says something like this it's like a convict claiming he's innocent of a crime.


----------



## brotagonist

I practice restraint, but... it is ADDICTIVE and there is NO END :devil::lol:


----------



## scratchgolf

Problem solved, as I now own everything. It's ok, but this weather!


----------



## Martyn Harper

I too am addicted to buying CDs. I buy them quicker than I can listen to them and now have a backlog of about 200. I tell myself that I must stop buying any more for a year or two until I have properly listened to what I have already got. But then something catches my interest and off I go again with another large Amazon order. I too have a very stressful job and the buying seems to provide an outlet that I am reluctant to let go of.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Martyn Harper said:


> I too am addicted to buying CDs. I buy them quicker than I can listen to them and now have a backlog of about 200. I tell myself that I must stop buying any more for a year or two until I have properly listened to what I have already got. But then something catches my interest and off I go again with another large Amazon order. I too have a very stressful job and the buying seems to provide an outlet that I am reluctant to let go of.


So long as it is using disposable income, have at it. I find excitement in hunting down CDs online. I have gotten to where it feels like there is something missing if I don't either have a CD/DVD arriving in the mail box or ordered to be shipped.


----------



## Vaneyes

That would be too much. I just sold everything.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Vaneyes said:


> ... I just sold everything.


That's what my stockbroker told me just before the crash. So I figured to invest it in music instead. 

But seriously, I got $3000 inheritance last summer that is quickly converting to music!


----------



## Pugg

Florestan said:


> That's what my stockbroker told me just before the crash. So I figured to invest it in music instead.
> 
> But seriously, I got $3000 inheritance last summer that is quickly converting to music!


No better way to spend it, remember the ones who left it to you by music :tiphat:


----------



## Chromatose

After reading through this thread I have to say I'm shocked that so many of you spend so much on CD's. I haven't bought a CD in over a decade as there are other ways of accumulating a collection. Perhaps some of you have money to spare for such things but I get all my music for free from libraries and youtube, which I download into a hard drives and let me tell you I have a massive collection of music.


----------



## Mal

Why this obsession to own everything? I'm happy listening to music from (legal) streaming services.


----------



## Chromatose

Mal said:


> Why this obsession to own everything? I'm happy listening to music from (legal) streaming services.


What if God forbid, the system crashes and you don't have access what would you have to fall back on?


----------



## Pugg

Chromatose said:


> What if God forbid, the system crashes and you don't have access what would you have to fall back on?


Now this are words right out my heart :tiphat:


----------



## jegreenwood

Woodduck said:


> The desire for a "collection" has diminished over the years, my rate of acquisition enormously slowed by a slower rate of listening and the realization that I'll never hear every scrap of music I already have. At a certain point I had the idea of accumulating a good library of recordings, a fairly deep cross-section of classical music history, though I knew and didn't care that there would always be gaps. But somewhere around 4000 CDs I realized that I was overwhelmed and didn't actually need to own music in order to hear it. Now I listen a lot to music online and only buy when I find something really tempting really cheap, or just can't help yielding to old urges and habits.


That pretty much sums it up for me. I have my 3500 CDs (maybe 60% classical) ripped to my hard drive, but I have bought very little in the past two years. Most of what I have bought is not available via streaming (including hi-rez). I still have unplayed discs purchased several years ago during the mega-box deluge, but at least half of my listening these days is via Tidal. I also know that if Tidal were to disappear tomorrow, I'd have enough music on my computer to explore for the rest of my life. (I'm 63.)


----------



## SixFootScowl

Chromatose said:


> After reading through this thread I have to say I'm shocked that so many of you spend so much on CD's. I haven't bought a CD in over a decade as there are other ways of accumulating a collection. Perhaps some of you have money to spare for such things but I get all my music for free from libraries and youtube, which I download into a hard drives and let me tell you I have a massive collection of music.


You realize that the library music while free is time limited. You have to return the CDs. My library gives only one week loan and has a very shabby classical collection.


----------



## Morimur

Florestan said:


> You realize that the library music while free is time limited. You have to return the CDs. My library gives only one week loan and has a very shabby classical collection.


Can't you renew online? As far as music is concerned, I think newer libraries are going digital and doing away with CDs.


----------



## Mal

Chromatose said:


> What if God forbid, the system crashes and you don't have access what would you have to fall back on?


I have around a thousand CDs that will keep me going until it is back up again. Or I could try a free month on the other services, or youtube. That said, I am slowly getting rid of my CD collection as I find preferable performances on Spotify. It's very enjoyable getting rid of stuff you never liked very much!


----------



## Guest

If the need to constantly acquire more is superceding enjoyment of listening then I think some action is required. Radical action! Such as set a start date for a month. February 1st sounds good, plus it's the shortest! Then, for that month make no purchases and take a holiday from TC. Spend the four weeks doing crazy stuff such as, oh I don't know, listening to some of your music. Then, March 1st: review the situation.


----------



## SixFootScowl

Morimur said:


> Can't you renew online? As far as music is concerned, I think newer libraries are going digital and doing away with CDs.


I can renew two times online. A neighboring city's library gives three weeks and can renew. Slightly better collection. Yeah our library has a lot of online music that is free but I did not see much of interest there.


----------

