# Most unlistenably noisy composer?



## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

No, this ain't no bashing thread but I am searching for something that fits this category. I have struggled in classical music thus far, to find anything of the sort.

Maybe it's just me, who knows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For this thread, I want you to submit here the things you think qualifies as such and I will give it a rating between *1* = soft, sleeping like a baby and *10* = My ears are bleeding, we have a winner!

This has been a genuine interest of mine for a long time (and with a lot of other music outside of classical too), so hopefully a large place such as TC with all your diverse listening experience can guide me for what I'm looking for via this thread?

thanks :cheers:


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## Adam Weber (Apr 9, 2015)




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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Adam Weber said:


>


I heard that one last week actually, cool contemporary piece. It draws heavily from Stravinsky, Ligeti and Messiaen but is way, way too lyrical (and careful on contrasts)

This one gets a *4*

:tiphat:


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## Adam Weber (Apr 9, 2015)

ST4 said:


> I heard that one last week actually, cool contemporary piece. It draws heavily from Stravinsky, Ligeti and Messiaen but is way, way too lyrical (and careful on contrasts)
> 
> This one gets a *4*
> 
> :tiphat:


You know, after I posted that, I thought, "Huh, this isn't that intense." I relied on my memory without another listen. 4/10 seems about right. Still a fun piece, though.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Adam Weber said:


> You know, after I posted that, I thought, "Huh, this isn't that intense." I relied on my memory without another listen. 4/10 seems about right. Still a fun piece, though.


Yes, definitely. It may raise an eyebrow when your cat is sleeping but that it about all.

I'm looking for planetary destruction, chaos, death  , whatever folk here want to describe outlined in my OP :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Not long ago I got Popov's 1st Symphony. My memory says it was pretty noisy, but I haven't listened a second time.

But try Copland's "Symphony for Organ and Orchestra (1924)" especially the 2nd movement!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

I'm reluctant to nominate anything, because my tastes are apt to change. E.g. the first time I heard Janacek's Sinfonietta I experienced it as way too noisy; I don't nowadays. and then there is a lot of music that I experienced as noisy, but gloriously so, like Rite of Spring or Bartok's piano concertos. 

I'll have to think it over...


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Not long ago I got Popov's 1st Symphony. My memory says it was pretty noisy, but I haven't listened a second time.
> 
> But try Copland's "Symphony for Organ and Orchestra (1924)" especially the 2nd movement!


I'm listening currently (not a Copland piece I've heard before)


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

brianvds said:


> I'm reluctant to nominate anything, because my tastes are apt to change. E.g. the first time I heard Janacek's Sinfonietta I experienced it as way too noisy; I don't nowadays. and then there is a lot of music that I experienced as noisy, but gloriously so, like Rite of Spring or Bartok's piano concertos.
> 
> I'll have to think it over...


I was just on a walk thinking about this and _The Rite Of Spring_ popped into my head for the contrary reason, being;

It's often thought of being an over-the-top, aggressive, relentless force of chaos but realistically only the crescendos are what people generally think about in that regard. The piece as a whole is quite tame and very melodic (and the majority of the second act/half too is just very slow and ethereal, like Debussy or Messiaen's adagios for example) (about a *4* )

Janacek's _Sinfonietta_, love that piece. Still, it's a very metrically based piece (I heard lots of Stravinsky in it, am I alone on that?). It's got lots of cool rhythm's and all but it doesn't feel aggressive or even that heavy in that aspect. (Making it about a *3* )

Cool, looking forward to everyone's future suggestions. Thank's for the responses so far :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ST4 said:


> I'm listening currently (not a Copland piece I've heard before)


I wouldn't say it's unlistenable, by any means. The 2nd movement is a big rub-a-dub-dub scherzo, kind of like the one in Beethoven's 9th. Quite enjoyable.


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## Daybloom (Mar 4, 2017)

Anything by Mozart


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Daybloom said:


> Anything by Mozart


Most Mozart = *1*, Requiem = *2*

Thank you for your input Daybloom :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> I wouldn't say it's unlistenable, by any means. The 2nd movement is a big rub-a-dub-dub scherzo, kind of like the one in Beethoven's 9th. Quite enjoyable.


I getcha now, awesome work btw I'm really enjoying it, most of the piece is a *2* but some of the outbursts are a very fine *4* :tiphat:

I love modern(ist) organ concertos btw, I even intend on writing one myself if the opportunity comes


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Daybloom said:


> Anything by Mozart


You made a firm statement on your first post.
Welcome to Talk Classical.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Nancarrow: Study for Player Piano No. 21





or...

Daniel Corral: Study for 61 Player Pianos
https://spinalfrog.bandcamp.com/track/study-for-61-player-pianos


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Unlistenable? Certainly not, love them. Noisy? Yes.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

tortkis said:


> Nancarrow: Study for Player Piano No. 21
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nancarrow? no 21 is rather a *5* (awesome piece btw, love all his studies. Great for so many reasons)

Haven't heard the Corral, so I'll report back... :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Unlistenable? Certainly not, love them. Noisy? Yes.


Haven't heard the Leifs' in quite a while, I'll also have to revisit that one after the previous post..

Penderecki, I knew you'd turn up sooner or later. Great piece, absolutely. Thunderous, aggressive timbres check!

The thing about the world-famous Threnody is the structure, aleatoric block-sections that buildup, disappear than build up again.
It's a vicious piece don't get me wrong, but this aspect really takes away from it really reaching for what I'm looking for. 
Threnody gets a *6 * :tiphat:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

ST4 said:


> It's often thought of being an over-the-top, aggressive, relentless force of chaos but realistically only the crescendos are what people generally think about in that regard. The piece as a whole is quite tame and very melodic (and the majority of the second act/half too is just very slow and ethereal, like Debussy or Messiaen's adagios for example) (about a *4* )


Indeed, though it bears mentioning that our modern ears have become more used to his sort of thing than was the case in 1913. The Debussy connection is interesting: as far as I know, Stravinsky quite admired Debussy's work, and as you point out, a lot of the the second half of the Rite has Debussy written all over it. Particularly the opening bit of the second half; it reminds quite a bit of _Nuages_, though perhaps with rather more pent-up intensity (which then bursts forth in the noisy bits, in utterly glorious fashion. )



> Janacek's _Sinfonietta_, love that piece. Still, it's a very metrically based piece (I heard lots of Stravinsky in it, am I alone on that?). It's got lots of cool rhythm's and all but it doesn't feel aggressive or even that heavy in that aspect. (Making it about a *3* )


It's decidedly not as noisy as I experienced it initially. Scintillating is a word that comes to mind. All those brassy flares and sparks make for a colorful display. It reminds me more of Bartok than Stravinsky, mind you.



Art Rock said:


> Unlistenable? Certainly not, love them. Noisy? Yes.


I was going to mention the Threnody, but I was sure someone else would. 
Penderecki seems to have mellowed a lot as grew older...


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Messiaens La Résurrection du Christ (and many other pieces) are very noisy and many will find them difficult to listen to (unlistenable). In my opinion they are masterpieces (and you should of course listen to them as part of the entire piece).


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

4'33" performed at an air show during a simulated jet bomber attack might make for a quite noisy display. Not sure if it would be unlistenable. 

On a more serious note: I am a huge fan of Rachmaninov, with the exception the _The Bells_. I once got hold of a recording and found it utterly unlistenable. But perhaps it was just that specific recording...


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

brianvds said:


> Indeed, though it bears mentioning that our modern ears have become more used to his sort of thing than was the case in 1913. The Debussy connection is interesting: as far as I know, Stravinsky quite admired Debussy's work, and as you point out, a lot of the the second half of the Rite has Debussy written all over it. Particularly the opening bit of the second half; it reminds quite a bit of _Nuages_, though perhaps with rather more pent-up intensity (which then bursts forth in the noisy bits, in utterly glorious fashion. )
> 
> It's decidedly not as noisy as I experienced it initially. Scintillating is a word that comes to mind. All those brassy flares and sparks make for a colorful display. It reminds me more of Bartok than Stravinsky, mind you.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes and yes to those comments. I would add though that this thread kind of is about judging through modern ears but not exclusively, _The Rite_ for instance obviously has this infamous (or perhaps just famous) reputation for moreso imitating a certain flavor at least. People often neglect that there are plenty of other Stravisnky works with really super-aggressive moments (even those other two ballet pieces, often mentioned for other reasons)

Penderecki is right on point there, basically after his second symphony he went down a neo-romantic route (though he's clearly harmonically influenced by the likes of Bartok et al). The _first symphony, St Luke Passion, Devils Of Loudrun and Utrenja_ are all personifications of Penderecki's awesome early style fully-formed, before he decided to switch lanes :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Messiaens La Résurrection du Christ (and many other pieces) are very noisy and many will find them difficult to listen to (unlistenable). In my opinion they are masterpieces (and you should of course listen to them as part of the entire piece).


_Messiaen_ is well-explored territory for me, I'd say generally he leans towards a *4* or *5*. Occasionally we get huge outbursts (like in _Chronochromie and Turangalila_), I find him way too colorful and exotic to really qualify. He's the lighter side of_ Xenakis_ in a way (who in himself is a more modern Stravinsky :lol: )

:tiphat:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

A couple of obvious candidates:


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2017)

I don't see any composers in this thread that I find to be particularly noisy in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: I listened to all the snippets I haven't heard.... I suppose this Avraamov guy sounds a little bit noisy.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I am hesitant to post this because from what I've read in some other threads, the OP is already very familiar with Xenakis. So I don't expect this to be a revelation, but I am curious to know how ST4 would rate La Legende d'Eer on his/her 10 point scale.

This is the only piece of music I have ever encountered that I had to turn off because it was too unpleasant to listen too. To be fair, I was listening to it on headphones which probably wasn't a good idea. I did go back to it later and listened to it through speakers and made it all the way through, though I still wouldn't say it is one of my favorites of Xenakis (there are other works of his that I like though).

If it doesn't rate a 10 with the OP I would be curious/scared to know what does.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

SuperTonic said:


> I am hesitant to post this because from what I've read in some other threads, the OP is already very familiar with Xenakis. So I don't expect this to be a revelation, but I am curious to know how ST4 would rate La Legende d'Eer on his/her 10 point scale.
> 
> This is the only piece of music I have ever encountered that I had to turn off because it was too unpleasant to listen too. To be fair, I was listening to it on headphones which probably wasn't a good idea. I did go back to it later and listened to it through speakers and made it all the way through, though I still wouldn't say it is one of my favorites of Xenakis (there are other works of his that I like though).
> 
> If it doesn't rate a 10 with the OP I would be curious/scared to know what does.


Ok, _La Légende D'Eer_ (one of my favorite electronic works btw) a massive living jungle of synthetic creatures, oceans, chasms and the bridging between the hyper-modern and the ancient.

The high-frequencies in the first 5-8 minutes for a long time where hard to get through because of frequencies (or pitches) higher than a piccolo tend to be grating. But back then I still enjoyed the rest of the piece, once the entire frequency-spectrum comes into play. The piece in general, while very cosmic and surreal, is only really a *5 *. The introduction part described may be a 8/9 for unsuspecting ears but you soon realize that you are listening a bunch of essentially poly-rhythmic conversations between multiple "voices", much like much of _Ligeti_'s middle period work (and no, I'm not making a comparison there).

Once it gets into the main journey it undertakes, _La Légende D'Eer_ quickly becomes rather soothing in a way, but very demanding of attention. Think like you're witnessing something other-worldly and not trying to miss anything? possibly overwhelming in that regard. I know for sure that _Persepolis_ has that kind of perceptional challenge :lol:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Listening to the _Leif_'s piece right now


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

ST4 said:


> Listening to the _Leif_'s piece right now


A lot of the piece is only really a *3* but towards the end, OMG!  There are some impressive *5* moments with the percussion and organ!! :tiphat:

Gonna put that on my listen again list


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Stockhausen's Helikopter-Quartett came to my mind, but when re-listened to it, I found it rather nice. The rotor sound is musical, making a good ensemble with the tremolo of strings. The accumulation of tension at the beginning is exciting.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

I think the only piece of music I've found literally unbearable in sonic terms is Alvin Lucier's _Almost New York_. It was on an otherwise very enjoyable album by flutist Claire Chase a few years ago, but I just couldn't get through the first minute because of the electronic whine.


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Glenn Branca's _The Ascension_ (1981) might work for you.






If you have a good enough sound system (or excellent headphones), it should reach a good rating -- not all the way through perhaps -- but it has more than its share of titanic, dissonant power. The whole work is a masterpiece, but the final title track deserves special mention as a monument of overwhelming noise that builds up an overpowering tension and suspense before becoming gloriously climactic and reaching a feverish spiritual epiphany.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2017)

I was thinking of mentioning Branca but I haven't yet found any of his music anything other than slow and soothing quite honestly.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Not so serious but there seems to be a contest going on on Youtube to put as many notes as possible in a "composition".

I think the "Death Waltz" is quite funny:






110 million notes version:






M.A. Hamelin's Circus Galop may have started all this:


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

jms said:


> I was thinking of mentioning Branca but I haven't yet found any of his music anything other than slow and soothing quite honestly.


Most of the best answers to the OP are Rock/Jazz composers/artists but he specified "Classical" I believe.

If Rock/Jazz are allowed, I can come up with some examples that he'd probably give pretty high ratings (though hard to tell just what it would take to garner a 10!) and that are also amazing albums for what they're doing -- not just boring/pointless noise.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Khachaturian Piano Concerto in D flat.

Which I quite like, come to think of it.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

I find that Rimsky-Korsakov seems to have a lot of arbitrary volume changes. It goes from p to ff for no apparent reason it seems. Scheherazade is a good example, but there are others.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

ST4 said:


> Penderecki, I knew you'd turn up sooner or later. Great piece, absolutely. Thunderous, aggressive timbres check!
> 
> The thing about the world-famous Threnody is the structure, aleatoric block-sections that buildup, disappear than build up again.
> It's a vicious piece don't get me wrong, but this aspect really takes away from it really reaching for what I'm looking for.
> Threnody gets a *6 * :tiphat:


As a footnote, the Threnody was featured to striking effect, a couple of weeks ago, in the mind-bending Episode 8 of David Lynch's _Twin Peaks: The Return_ (Showtime). As much as I enjoyed the episode, I'm sure some would call it the unlistenable accompanying the unwatchable.

Here's the section featuring the Threnody--before things get weird.


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

AfterHours said:


> Most of the best answers to the OP are Rock/Jazz composers/artists but he specified "Classical" I believe.
> 
> If Rock/Jazz are allowed, I can come up with some examples that he'd probably give pretty high ratings (though hard to tell just what it would take to garner a 10!) and that are also amazing albums for what they're doing -- not just boring/pointless noise.


I was thinking about Tanz Debil by Einstürzende Neubauten (wondering how many points this masterpiece of noise would be awarded) but apparently these old industrial punkers want to make money from their brilliant debut from 1981 so the song can not be found on youtube anymore...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Varese Arcana or Ameriques ,anything with huge orchestra, and lots of percussion!! Some of the Xenakis stuff is pretty noisy!!


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

What about this one?


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

amfortas said:


> As a footnote, the Threnody was featured to striking effect, a couple of weeks ago, in the mind-bending Episode 8 of David Lynch's _Twin Peaks: The Return_ (Showtime). As much as I enjoyed the episode, I'm sure some would call it the unlistenable accompanying the unwatchable.
> 
> Here's the section featuring the Threnody--before things get weird.


<3

"Call for help"
"Jade give two rides"
"Got a light?"
"F** you Albert"

and so on.

I was really really happy and completely paralyzed (not knowing what was going to happen) when I saw the premiere of the episode  So happy that he not only used Penderecki but also Nine Inch Nails in the same episode


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Agamemnon said:


> What about this one?


Of course I've head all Xenakis that you could possibly throw at me but ok;

The harshness of this piece (like his other UPIC work such as S.709) have such pixelated kinds of timbres (which I guess he used because it was new for the system he exclusively used for the electronic pieces produced using this piece, which there are about 5 of them)

_Mycenae Alpha_ has quite a few large-cluster pixel moments which may qualify for a *6* but the piece as a whole has too much drawing it away from that, again dynamics are a hard balance. Dynamics either throw out the impact or make it just right, same for constant dynamics :lol:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

AfterHours said:


> Glenn Branca's _The Ascension_ (1981) might work for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I found out about him ages ago and I was trying to work out what his name was (several weeks ago). Thank you thank you :tiphat:

(p.s., will listen to find out)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Prokofiev Symphony No. 3.


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## Adam Weber (Apr 9, 2015)




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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Prokofiev Symphony No. 3.


Really? 

Most of the work is a *3*, sometimes a *4*.

_Scythian Suite_ is way more aggressive, more in line with the Rite Of Spring, at a *4* or *5*

:cheers:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Adam Weber said:


>


I actually mentioned this myself on another thread, a great work from _Lindberg_.

This piece has the weird case of sonically being a *5* or *6* but then as it goes on (for about 30 minutes or so) feels more like a *3* 

Lots of impressive and highly dissonant sound-masses, so I give it props for that :tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The beginning of the 4th movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony-dissonant, loud and nasty.

Why, my good man. Why? Have you lost your mind?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that even the opening movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" can be "noisy" if you turn the volume control up high enough! But rather than posting, I decided instead to listen to Schnittke's First Symphony.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The beginning of the 4th movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony-dissonant, loud and nasty.
> 
> Why, my good man. Why? Have you lost your mind?


Yep, the first 20/30 seconds of movement 4 would definitely be a solid *5* if it had more percussion. Beethoven has tiny moments that are surely horrifying for a late classical-era listener perhaps, I hand it to him :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> After reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion that even the opening movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" can be "noisy" if you turn the volume control up high enough!


Don't you mean the presto movement? :lol:

Schnittke? well it's a busy symphony but it's hard to describe. Perhaps the ultimate "post"-modern work? I might leave a bit of an analysis on a Schnittke thread sometime soon? :tiphat:


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Well, if Messiaen is quite soothing to you (did you comment on the specific work? I think you didn't) what about Maja Osojnik (classical or not)?


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

This thread raises the question what noise actually is. As Wikipedia says: in physics there is no difference between noise and sound; noise is a psychological thing because noise is simply any sound that we find unwanted and unpleasant. 

I think noise can be three things (or all these things combined):
- lack of melody and dynamics so it is simply boring to death and soon gets very annoying (like when I play the same note for hours)
- there are lots of different pitches and such going on but they seem randomly distributed so we can not find any pattern in it (so for some people atonal music is therefore noise)
- a harsh sound like nails upon a chalk board


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Agamemnon said:


> I was thinking about Tanz Debil by Einstürzende Neubauten (wondering how many points this masterpiece of noise would be awarded) but apparently these old industrial punkers want to make money from their brilliant debut from 1981 so the song can not be found on youtube anymore...


I love those guys, great band! Blixa needs an award or something, the band practically released industrial masterpiece after masterpiece without getting enough recognition


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

AfterHours said:


> Most of the best answers to the OP are Rock/Jazz composers/artists but he specified "Classical" I believe.
> 
> If Rock/Jazz are allowed, I can come up with some examples that he'd probably give pretty high ratings (though hard to tell just what it would take to garner a 10!) and that are also amazing albums for what they're doing -- not just boring/pointless noise.


Yes it is specified classical (for very clear reasons) but I agree. I love a lot of that stuff too. Perhaps we need a non-classical sister thread?


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Messiaens La Résurrection du Christ (and many other pieces) are very noisy and many will find them difficult to listen to (unlistenable). In my opinion they are masterpieces (and you should of course listen to them as part of the entire piece).


Well to answer piece-specific, it's cluster-filled (which I like a lot) but the mood it actually conveys is not exactly that extreme, an adagio/grave (I think, haven't seen the score) with very slow but regular moving cluster chords that keep transforming (aka resolving to another dissonant chord, both subtly and more unexpectedly)

Those factors and plus the overall vibe it expresses being like an alien cross between Bach and Mahler, a very emotional mystical piece. It kinda leads me to just a *3*.

As I said somewhere here, parts of Chronochromie and Turangalila would rate higher on the extreme, noise level :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Well, if Messiaen is quite soothing to you (did you comment on the specific work? I think you didn't) what about Maja Osojnik (classical or not)?


Maja Osojnik is an extraordinary current champion of the genre-bending avant garde. She has composed several chamber works that are contemporary classical but her more well known works (like the wonderfully deep and emotional _Let Them Grow_ album) are a more complex case:

There are so many elements in these works (on that album). Her electronic writing IS as complex as Stockhausen, like the electroacoustic part has 90 quiet interactive sounds producing a larger, new sound essentially. "Condition I" has so much going on at once, that the electroacoustic layer may be accidentally perceived as just a single sound in itself but it's not.

It seems what she is doing (which makes it so hard to classify) at it's most simplified; is writing art pop/post-prog rock? songs, that have intense electroacoustic background.

So confusing aye?  If the vocals and synths where taken out, we would have a very organic, electroacoustic piece. Crazy isn't it?

Then, take into account that she also has album with jazz and rock bands too 

Btw, in case you haven't heard: https://majaosojnik.bandcamp.com/album/the-radiance-of-exhaustion


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## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

Sciarrino's "De o de do" comes to mind: 




But if you like all of Nancarrow's etudes so much, I doubt you'd find that piece noisy at all. Personally I guess I could listen to it to the end, but I'd rather not, even if I like some other Sciarrino works.

It's funny how noise and aggressive music lost their sting so completely. I remember reading Ustvolskaya claimed she tried to write music that would make people feel uncomfortable, and I'm sure at first it worked exactly like that. Now, however, so many people say they love her music and enjoy it (I presume this means they don't find it uncomfortable). It's the same with so many composers. Like the Threnody surely was meant to remind people of the horrors of Hiroshima - violent, brutal, horrifying, uncomfortable and painful to listen to - but now people say that they enjoy the piece, that it's fun to listen to, and quite recently I hear it was used as some kind of surrealistic backdrop in a TV show.


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## dzc4627 (Apr 23, 2015)

Richard Strauss


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

ST4 said:


> Yep, the first 20/30 seconds of movement 4 would definitely be a solid *5* if it had more percussion. Beethoven has tiny moments that are surely horrifying for a late classical-era listener perhaps, I hand it to him :tiphat:


Yes. I'm sure it wasn't the first time that a contemporary audience at a Beethoven performance reacted like at the premiere of the Rite of Spring.

But we know differently!!! 

We do??


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Well, I don't know what you call noise and/or what you're looking for. So I looked for the stars

http://bison.ph.bham.ac.uk/~miglioa/M4PR/M4_beta0.html

No noise maybe, comes close to listening to a few pipes of an organ.

This is where I got it from

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/137829-this-is-what-the-oldest-stars-in-our-milky-way-galaxy-sound-like


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