# Moby-Dick is America's Ring Cycle?



## GrosseFugue (Nov 30, 2011)

Okay, so I had this crazy epiphany while reading "Why Read Moby-Dick" by Nathaniel Philbrick (great book, btw):

_The Ring Cycle and Moby-Dick are the same.
_
Wagner and Melville were contemporaries. Wagner just 6 years older. And you know how often two great artists/inventors/pioneers will live during the same time? They were both dipping into the same Zeitgeist. And coming up with a masterwork that was full of allegory, symbols, ancient mythology, arcane language.

The two works seem to share so much:

One-legged Ahab = one-eyed Wotan
Ishmael = Seigfried
Whale = Dragon
Harpoon = Sword
Gold Ring = Gold Doubloon
Destruction of the ship & crew = Gotterdammerung

You can go on and on with this. And sure, maybe I'm going out on a limb, but I'm curious to hear others' thoughts.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

And Brahms is Charles Dickens!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'd've guessed Brahms was George Eliot. But since that's taken... 

Anyway GrosseFugue, interesting thoughts there.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Seems to have a lot more to do with people's ability to relate and find patterns than anything.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, any 2 quest stories will line up like that. 

We could put "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time" and "Watership Down" up and find similar comparisons.


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## operachick (Dec 7, 2011)

interesting thoughts - i am now re-reading moby dick! thanks for the inspiration. i do love the ring cycle so am intrigued to do my own comparison.


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

I recently purchased this CD from Presto Classical and have listened to it a few times, but so far it hasn't clicked with me. Interesting none the less.










I'm very fond of the original novel. Will have to check out the book you mention GrosseFugue.


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## GrosseFugue (Nov 30, 2011)

Lou,

That's a might interesting CD. But have you heard of Moby-Dick the OPERA?: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126863812 Now there's a TRUE American Ring cycle. The composer mentions how it's easier to sing Melvilles's words than to say them. Makes sense.

And here's some more comparisons:
Fedallah = Erda
Blacksmith = Mime

And talk about prescience. Do you remember these lines from the book?:

*And, doubtless, my going on this whaling voyage, formed part of the grand programme of Providence that was drawn up a long time ago. It came in as a sort of brief interlude and solo between more extensive performances. I take it that this part of the bill must have run something like this:

"Grand Contested Election for the Presidency of the United States.

"WHALING VOYAGE BY ONE ISHMAEL.

"BLOODY BATTLE IN AFFGHANISTAN."*

Holy cow! Melville the soothsayer. Or more evidence that history merely repeats itself. Surprised Philbrick didn't quote those lines.

PS -- Here's an even better link to the opera (there's also additional links on the sidebar):


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The comparisons are intriguing . Last year, the Dallas opera gave the world premiere of 
Jake Heggie's opera "Moby Dick" , and apparently it was quite enthusiastically received by the audience.
Canadian tenor Ben Heppner seems to have had a triumph creating the role of captain Ahab. There have been a couple of other productions elsewhere in the US since. 
I'm very curious to see and hear it . Perhaps it will even get a Met production sometime soon . Heggie's "Dead Man Walking" , based on the story of sister Helen Prejean and her 
friendship with a young man on death row in a Texas prison , has has been widely performed in recent years, even in Europe, and the San Francisco premiere was released on CD.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah, but to tell the truth, I like the Melville novel far better than I like the Wagner operas.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

GGluek said:


> Yeah, but to tell the truth, I like the Melville novel far better than I like the Wagner operas.


They're not operas, they're _music dramas. _


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I love both Moby-Dick and the Ring; they both seem to share the spirit of megalomanic all-encompassiveness. "The symphony must be like the world. It must embrace everything", said a great man once to another; that is the kind of art that really, really appeals to me.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Actually, Wagner only considered his stage works from the Ring on to be "music dramas".
He considered his two juvenile operas Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot, Rienzi, the Flying Dutchman, Tannhauser and Lohengrin to be operas in the traditional sense.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

superhorn said:


> Actually, Wagner only considered his stage works from the Ring on to be "music dramas".
> He considered his two juvenile operas Die Feen and Das Liebesverbot, Rienzi, the Flying Dutchman, Tannhauser and Lohengrin to be operas in the traditional sense.


Is that according to your research, D.A.?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

A Wagner tit bit


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