# BBC Proms 2016



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

How are people getting on with the Prons this season? I have heard a decidedly underwhelming Elgar cello concerto, a Rachmaninov 3 that seemed undercooked (though the Liszt encore was marvellous) and now I'm suffering a Beethoven Missa Solemnis with somewhat substandard singing and foursquare conducting. It can only get better!


----------



## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

I haven't tuned in yet, but I'm delighted to see not one but _four_ Bruckner symphonies this year (3,4,6,9). Disappointingly, however, number 9 is being performed without a finale, which in the 21st century is quite frankly unacceptable.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

BoggyB said:


> I haven't tuned in yet, but I'm delighted to see not one but _four_ Bruckner symphonies this year (3,4,6,9). Disappointingly, however, number 9 is being performed without a finale, which in the 21st century is quite frankly unacceptable.


Why? The finale that was recorded on EMI sucks IMO.


----------



## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

I liked it, but even if you don't, there are other completions, including the one used popularly by Wildner. This symphony isn't supposed to end with its slow movement.


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

BoggyB said:


> I liked it, but even if you don't, there are other completions, including the one used popularly by Wildner. This symphony isn't supposed to end with its slow movement.


Well, given what Bruckner went through, the turbulences, the struggles, his undying faith in God, him making peace with God and with his life before his ascension to heaven, this slow movement could not be anymore apt. The quiet ending that concludes this symphony is as perfect and heart wrenching of a swansong as it comes.

The re-constructed finale is well-meaning, and well-done, but superfluous and ill-fitting to the overall scheme of the symphony. And while Bruckner intended the finale to be completed (presumably), I'm not totally sure of his state of mind when he was working on it (given his questionable decisions to tackle the revisions of his earlier symphonies, namely nos. I & III).


----------



## TwoPhotons (Feb 13, 2015)

Catching up with the Proms now by listening to Rachmaninoff's 3rd Concerto - glad to hear Abduraimov playing the full cadenza!  He has great technique though I see what DavidA means by "undercooked", the opening in particular struck me as a bit dry. Maybe because I'm too used to other versions. 

So far I think my favourite performance was Prokofiev's "Alexander Nevsky" on the opening night. Heart-racingly good, "The Crusaders in Pskov" and "The Battle on the Ice" in particular!

Tomorrow I will watch the Faure Requiem (etc.) and might listen to the Missa Solemnis if I have time. Otherwise I'll listen to it on my "off day" (Strictly Prom...)


----------



## Centropolis (Jul 8, 2013)

Just wondering, is there any legit way to catch BBC Proms in another country? Such as Canada.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> The re-constructed finale is well-meaning, and well-done, but superfluous and ill-fitting to the overall scheme of the symphony. And while Bruckner intended the finale to be completed (presumably), I'm not totally sure of his state of mind when he was working on it (given his questionable decisions to tackle the revisions of his earlier symphonies, namely nos. I & III).


I don't quite see how you can make that statement when Bruckner quite clearly intended there to be a finale and so it WAS in the overall scheme, even if we will never know quite how he would have finished and revised it. Also he did mention the idea of using the Te Deum as a finale just so that the work would NOT be left as an unfinished corpus. If the music world can accept the dubious completion of Mozart's Requiem, what is the problem with performing an almost complete Bruckner symphony?


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Centropolis said:


> Just wondering, is there any legit way to catch BBC Proms in another country? Such as Canada.


Here in The Netherlands we have BBC Four and they transmit the proms from time to time .


----------



## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

The premieres are always the most interesting part of the Proms for me.

Here's some of the premieres, and the Prom they are part of (p.):

Magnus Lindberg - Two Episodes (World premiere) p.13
Anthony Payne - Of Land, Sea and Sky (World premiere) p.15
Michael Berkeley - Violin Concerto (World premiere) p.16
Lera Auerbach - The Infant Minstrel and His Peculiar Menagerie (UK premiere) p.22
Jörg Widmann - Armonica (UK premiere) p.23
Reinbert de Leeuw - Der nächtliche Wanderer (UK premiere) p.26
Helen Grime - Two Eardley Pictures: Catterline in Winter (World premiere) p.27
Iris ter Schiphorst - Gravitational Waves (London premiere) p.29
Helen Grime - Two Eardley Pictures: Snow (World premiere) p.30
Mark Simpson - Israfel (London premiere) p.33
HK Gruber - Busking (London premiere) p.34
Malcolm Hayes - Violin Concerto (World premiere) p.35
Huw Watkins - Cello Concerto (World premiere) p.37
Charlotte Bray - Falling in the Fire (World premiere) p.39
Thomas Adès - Lieux retrouvés (UK premiere) p.40
Colin Matthews - Berceuse for Dresden (London premiere) p.41
Gérard Grisey - Dérives (UK premiere) p.46
Piers Hellawell - Wild Flow (world premiere) p.47 
Marlos Nobre - Kabbalah(UK premiere) p.51
Emily Howard - Torus (Concerto for Orchestra) (World premiere) p.53
Hans Abrahamsen - let me tell you (London premiere) p.55
Thomas Larcher - Symphony No 2 (UK premiere) p.57
Bayan Northcott - Concerto for Orchestra (World premiere) p.62
Julian Anderson - Incantesimi (UK premiere) p.66
Paul Desenne - Hipnosis mariposa (UK premiere) p.67
Tom Harrold - Raze (World premiere) p.75

Also good to see Ustvolskaya's Symphony No 3 'Jesus Messiah, save us! (p.4), Wolfgang Rihm's Gejagte Form (p.21) , Haas' Open Spaces II, and three works by Boulez and four by Dutilleux on different evenings.

A couple or three months from now the local classical station will play all the Proms shows, two a day, so I'll get to hear whichever ones are on when I'm not working.


----------



## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

What Becca said.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Becca said:


> If the music world can accept the dubious completion of Mozart's Requiem, what is the problem with performing an almost complete Bruckner symphony?


I personally have no problem with that. I have a problem with the statement that it should now be mandatory to perform the completed version. The 3-movement "incomplete" version is the most beautiful symphony of all time for me, and there is nothing unfinished about it. The finale just wrecks it.


----------



## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> _Well, given what Bruckner went through, the turbulences, the struggles, his undying faith in God, him making peace with God and with his life before his ascension to heaven, this slow movement could not be anymore apt. The quiet ending that concludes this symphony is as perfect and heart wrenching of a swansong as it comes. _


Romanticized notions of the "great composer" don't change the fact that *Bruckner's* intentions were definitely in place but weren't finished unfortunately. If you don't trust me, trust William Carragan - foremost Bruckner authority.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Monday coming: Danielle de Niese doing The barber of Seville from Glyndebourne .


----------



## BoggyB (May 6, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> I personally have no problem with that. I have a problem with the statement that it should now be mandatory to perform the completed version. The 3-movement "incomplete" version is the most beautiful symphony of all time for me, and there is nothing unfinished about it. The finale just wrecks it.


I accept that many people, mostly older, have got used to the three-movement version. But it is supposed to be a four-movement symphony, like all the others, and I'm convinced this is what Bruckner wanted.

In another thread recently, I talked about my dislike of the finale of number 5. Let me say this. If I was organising concerts, despite having a temptation to do so, I simply would not dare put on number 5 without its finale.


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Herrenvolk said:


> Romanticized notions of the "great composer" don't change the fact that *Bruckner's* intentions were definitely in place but weren't finished unfortunately. If you don't trust me, trust William Carragan - foremost Bruckner authority.


There were/are other foremost Bruckner authorities who deemed the Symphony as a complete musical statement (Simpson, Cooke, the leading conductors like Wand, Karajan). Here's what Robert Simpson said regarding the finale in his book "The Essence of Bruckner":

"I have nothing but admiration for the intrepidity, skill, and patience of those who have made the attempt out of dedicated love for the composer...but discussion of any of them in detail cannot evade the essential fact that even if Bruckner in his last moments had the end of his Ninth Symphony in his mind, it cannot enter ours."


----------



## gHeadphone (Mar 30, 2015)

Im going next Tuesday to Prom 15, i cant wait!


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

My grandparents are going to: 
The Last Night of the Proms 2016
Saturday 10 September 2016
Doors: 5:45pm
Starts: 7:15pm
Ends (approximately): 10:30pm

Main Auditorium





Juan Diego Flórez tenor
Francesca Chiejina, Eve Daniell, Lauren Fagan, Alison Rose sopranos
Claire Barnett-Jones, Marta Fontanals-Simmons, Anna Harvey, Katie Stevenson mezzo-sopranos
Trystan Llŷr Griffiths, Oliver Johnston, Joshua Owen Mills, James Way tenors
Bragi Jónsson, Benjamin Lewis, James Newby, Bradley Travis basses

BBC Proms Youth Ensemble
BBC Singers
BBC Symphony Chorus
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Sakari Oramo conductor


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2016)

Well I'm here now, waiting for the concert to start...Beethoven Choral...anyone else here??


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just seen the Walkure Act 3 concert on TV. Soprano looks as if she could eat any aspiring hero for breakfast!


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

As usual it is the woman's weight that is commented on. So what does it have to do with anything?


----------



## Patrick Murtha (Aug 1, 2016)

Centropolis said:


> Just wondering, is there any legit way to catch BBC Proms in another country? Such as Canada.


Sure, you can listen to all of the concerts (and watch some of them) at the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms


----------



## Patrick Murtha (Aug 1, 2016)

I have been listening to the concerts more or less in order. Prom 4 with the Munich Philharmonic under Valery Gergiev was a prime specimen of the incoherently planned modern orchestra concert. The four pieces had virtually nothing to do with one another and added up to a mish-mosh of styles. Why do programmers do this?

To make matters worse, the Rosenkavalier Suite wasn't even prepared by Strauss himself, so it scarcely earns its space. I much prefer whole scores to suites, but if we're going to have the latter, at least let them be 100% the composer's own work.

Prom 4

Maurice Ravel - Boléro (16 mins)
Sergei Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto No 3 in D minor (42 mins)
Galina Ustvolskaya - Symphony No 3 'Jesus Messiah, save us!' (14 mins)
Richard Strauss - Der Rosenkavalier Suite (25 mins)

Behzod Abduraimov piano
Alexei Petrenko reciter
Munich Philharmonic Orchestra
Valery Gergiev conductor


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Patrick Murtha said:


> Sure, you can listen to all of the concerts (and watch some of them) at the BBC website:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms


Thanks for the info Patrick and a very warm welcome to Talk Classical .:tiphat:


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Patrick Murtha said:


> I have been listening to the concerts more or less in order. Prom 4 with the Munich Philharmonic under Valery Gergiev was a prime specimen of the incoherently planned modern orchestra concert. The four pieces had virtually nothing to do with one another and added up to a mish-mosh of styles. Why do programmers do this?
> 
> To make matters worse, the Rosenkavalier Suite wasn't even prepared by Strauss himself, so it scarcely earns its space. I much prefer whole scores to suites, but if we're going to have the latter, at least let them be 100% the composer's own work.
> 
> ...


This program is tonight on BBC 4, for those who are interested .


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Patrick Murtha said:


> I have been listening to the concerts more or less in order. Prom 4 with the Munich Philharmonic under Valery Gergiev was a prime specimen of the incoherently planned modern orchestra concert. The four pieces had virtually nothing to do with one another and added up to a mish-mosh of styles. Why do programmers do this?


To appeal to people like me, who like a lot of variety in a concert?


----------

