# Vaughan Williams symphonies cycle recommendations?



## muxamed

Hi

Do you have a recommendation for a good VW symphonies cycle? I have been looking at Haitink's recordings on EMI but I am not completely sure. His box is very cheap. Anyone? 

Cheers
muxamed


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## Elgarian

This is somewhat controversial. Haitink's set makes me feel seriously squirmy, and for some time now it's merely gathered dust on my shelves, while I wonder about depositing it in a charity shop. I feel he lacks sensitivity to the English pastoral mysticism that's one of the essential components in RVW, though in fairness, I've encountered the alternative view that my attitude is too anglo-centric, and that Haitink blows a fresh breeze through the music. I think his breeze is too fresh, and blows away key aspects of the music.

My favourite is the Boult box: 








which is only slightly more expensive, and here you get a conductor who deeply understands RVW. In my view, either this, or Handley's set, would be a 'safer' first choice than Haitink's.


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## muxamed

Thank you Elgarian. I already have Nos 3 and 5 conducted by Boult and like them a lot. Handley's set looks very interesting.


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## Polednice

Did Previn do all of them? I know he at least did the majority, and I thought they were quite good, but I'm not big on Vaughan Williams...


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## muxamed

Polednice said:


> Did Previn do all of them? I know he at least did the majority, and I thought they were quite good, but I'm not big on Vaughan Williams...


Yes, he did. I have his recordings of Nos 6 and 9.


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## Guest

Polednice said:


> Did Previn do all of them? I know he at least did the majority, and I thought they were quite good, but I'm not big on Vaughan Williams...


Same here - I have several of the symphonies, and just haven't really gotten into VW. Not that I find any of them unpleasant - just not memorable. Put a gun to my head, and, honestly, the only thing I could recall from any of them is . . . "BEHOLD!!!! The SEA!!!!! Itself."


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## Elgarian

DrMike said:


> Not that I find any of them unpleasant - just not memorable.


But by contrast, there are passages from the fifth symphony that have haunted me for forty years. So his music is _capable_ of being memorable.

*@muxamed*
In a recent _Gramophone_ quest to find the best recording of RVW's _Tallis Fantasia_, the winner was the Boult version contained within the EMI Boult box. I say this not to try to persuade you towards Boult instead of Handley, but just as an extra snippet of info, should you happen to be fond of the _Tallis Fantasia_ (as I bet you are).


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## Conor71

I agree with Elgarian - the Boult EMI box is really great .
The thing I like about this set is that it has a very generous selection of Orchestral Works as well as good performances of the Symphonies.
I used to own the singles of Symphony No. 1 and No. 7 from the Handley set and they were very nice - this set seems to have a good selection of fillers as well and is also in DDD sound (though the Boult still sounds very good I think) .


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## bongos

I agree , audition Previn,Boult and Handley and choose the one that you like the most


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## muxamed

Thank you all. I think I'll go with both Hendley and Boult. Hendley's is very affordable (£4.55 on amazon).


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## Moldyoldie

Just want to chime in: As a cycle, I've long been enamored of Previn's way with Vaughan Williams, especially as heard with the LSO on RCA.  Boult's later stereo recordings were my initiation into VW; Previn's LSO made me love it. IMO, the Handley, Thomson, and Haitink are either comparatively prosaic or just plain dull. The Handley set is a fine value, however, and the Thomson and Haitink have fine digital recording. I've yet to hear any of the Hickox, nor any of the mono Boult on Decca. 

I should also mention that Handley and Boult are by and large quite similar in their approaches. If one wants to hear divergent approaches to these works, one or the other might best be combined with the Haitink (whom I find dull in VW) or the Previn.

FWIW, picking and choosing work by work is my favorite way to go about it.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!


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## muxamed

Thank you Moldyoldie. I have Nos 6 & 9 with Previn and I really like those performances. The problem with that disc is that the recorded sound is quite bad. RCA hasn't yet remastered Previn's recordings. I think I will wait and hope that they will do remastering soon.


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## david johnson

boult/emi box is my choice.


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## Orgelbear

Do you really have to have just one set? Surprisingly, most of them are so good, and this music is well worth having in more than one version.

Boult 2 (the stereo version), Handley, and Thomson top my list. But if I had to pick just one, the Handley is the best compromise between great performances in the English tradition and good recorded sound. Furthermore, the incredibly cheap EMI 30-cd Vaughan Williams overview includes the Handley cycle for not too much more than you would pay for just a symphonies box.

Hickox, Previn, and Haitink have good...great, even...individual performances, but I find the cycles are a little uneven.


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## peter knight

vernon handley the only one


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## muxamed

I received Handley's set a couple of days ago. It costed me £7.00 including P&P. The music making is marevelous with beautiful sound and exquisite playing from RLPO. His performances of Nos 4 and 6 are the best I know. Really fantastic set.


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## Guest

You really should get the Boult set, plenty of fire in the old man


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## peter knight

being english rvw is in my blood, as is britten and elgar its just the way it is


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## muxamed

Andante said:


> You really should get the Boult set, plenty of fire in the old man


I already have the EMI Boult set


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## Guest

muxamed said:


> I already have the EMI Boult set


Well done, I thought you only had 3 and 5


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## muxamed

Andante said:


> Well done, I thought you only had 3 and 5


I bought the whole set recently.


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## christmashtn

Previn's recording of the 7th ("Sinfonia Antartica") is the less seldomly performed version with spoken narrator. I find it to be quite effective. Sir Ralph Richardson narrates in the Previn recording.


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## Vaneyes

Only five RVW symphonies keep my interest. Favorite recordings for these are...

3 & 4 Previn (RCA)
5 Handley (EMI)
6 & 9 Davis (Teldec)


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## Guest

Naxos recorded all the VW symphonies with the Bournemouth SO, Kees Daniels conducting most of them and Paul Daniels leading the 1st and 4th. All are fantastic performances with gorgeous sound. You can't go wrong with Previn either, though.


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## peter knight

vernon handley also has a great bax symphonies box set on chandos,regretfull he's no longer with us


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## david.allsopp

*Definitely Handley*



peter knight said:


> vernon handley the only one


As a cycle it is pretty flawless. Listen out for 7 when the organ enters, it is the big machine from Liverpool cathedral! Of all the 5ths his brings me to tears every time and as a VW freak I believe it is closest to how Uncle Ralph himself would have wanted to hear them (following on from Boult who was really close to VW)

There are a couple of places that have the great man himself conducting:
http://www.rvwsociety.com/soundsmps/conductsounds.html

And here he conducts Symphony no 4: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vaughan-Williams-Conducts/dp/B001NRTZJQ/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk


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## chalkpie

Elgarian said:


> This is somewhat controversial. Haitink's set makes me feel seriously squirmy, and for some time now it's merely gathered dust on my shelves, while I wonder about depositing it in a charity shop. I feel he lacks sensitivity to the English pastoral mysticism that's one of the essential components in RVW, though in fairness, I've encountered the alternative view that my attitude is too anglo-centric, and that Haitink blows a fresh breeze through the music. I think his breeze is too fresh, and blows away key aspects of the music.
> 
> My favourite is the Boult box:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which is only slightly more expensive, and here you get a conductor who deeply understands RVW. In my view, either this, or Handley's set, would be a 'safer' first choice than Haitink's.


I am making my way through the Haitink set, and quite honestly I think I am enjoying it every bit as the Boult EMI set (which I just finished).

As far as the "English Pastoral mysticism" (or lack thereof), I am having a hard time seeing this viewpoint. This is not the first time I have seen this mentioned either, which is odd. The thing that baffles me is that a good chunk of these symphonies don't even contain this so-called pastoral quality. Some movements do of course, but the playing and interpretation seems very convincing and quite good to my ears. How could one man "remove" these qualities that are embedded in these compositions and performed my English musicians? Is it because he's Dutch and wasn't born in the UK? It really doesn't make sense and I don't really buy into it.

In any event, like I said, this set is at least on par with Boult EMI, maybe even liking some parts more (and certainly better sonics), and I am pretty content with these two sets. BUT my O/CD nature tells me I need another set , and I have my sights on the 30-CD EMI set which includes the Handley symphonies.


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## chalkpie

Jeff N said:


> Naxos recorded all the VW symphonies with the Bournemouth SO, Kees Daniels conducting most of them and Paul Daniels leading the 1st and 4th. All are fantastic performances with gorgeous sound. You can't go wrong with Previn either, though.


I have heard the Previn has sketchy sonics which is keeping me away.


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## david.allsopp

*RVW - 3 best sets*



chalkpie said:


> I have heard the Previn has sketchy sonics which is keeping me away.


After some more serious hours listening I would now go for these three cycles:

1 - RLPO with Handley
2 - LSO Bryden Thomson
3 - Philharmonia with Slatkin (but this is noticeably a studio recording)

There are some excellent one off recordings that could probably make up a whole cycle e.g. Paavo Berglund with Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.

Look out for the BBC Scottish in case they issue recordings of their recent cycle with Andrew Manze. First class!


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## BRHiler

If only Hickox would have finished the cycle before passing on. I have all of the ones he did (1,2,3,4,5,6,8) and they are outstanding. I have Handley's recording of the 5th, and I do like it, but not as much.

As far as boxed sets go, I now have the Boult and the Haitink (thanks Arkivmusic and their wonderful deals!!!), and have almost all of the Slatkin ones individually, and of those 3, I would have to go with Boult as well. Although I like the Haitink recordings a great deal.

For me, it all comes down to the Romanza of Symphony #5. That's my absolute favorite movement of any of his symphonies, and if you can't get that right, then I won't get any more recordings w/ that conductor (i'm a meanie!)


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## Woodduck

chalkpie said:


> I am making my way through the Haitink set, and quite honestly I think I am enjoying it every bit as the Boult EMI set (which I just finished).
> 
> As far as the "English Pastoral mysticism" (or lack thereof), I am having a hard time seeing this viewpoint. This is not the first time I have seen this mentioned either, which is odd. The thing that baffles me is that a good chunk of these symphonies don't even contain this so-called pastoral quality. Some movements do of course, but the playing and interpretation seems very convincing and quite good to my ears. How could one man "remove" these qualities that are embedded in these compositions and performed my English musicians? Is it because he's Dutch and wasn't born in the UK? It really doesn't make sense and I don't really buy into it.
> 
> In any event, like I said, this set is at least on par with Boult EMI, maybe even liking some parts more (and certainly better sonics), and I am pretty content with these two sets. BUT my O/CD nature tells me I need another set , and I have my sights on the 30-CD EMI set which includes the Handley symphonies.


I too want to speak up for Haitink. I think "English pastoral mysticism" translates to "the way our beloved English interpreters play it," and although I love Sir Adrian in VW's music and thoroughly respect his authority I find Haitink's way quite beautiful too. His recordings sound gorgeous and VW's orchestral mastery has never been more bewitching.


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## 13hm13

My fave RVW symphony is #5.

I usually use Sym 5 / mvt 3 (lento) as reference.

Of those, I like Haitink (1995 EMI) and Previn (1989 Telarc). Surprised that Haitink's is as good as it is -- and the recording is super. OTOH, the Telarc recording is not as crisp as Telarcs usually are.

I have Boult (LPO, EMI, late 1960s), but don't like it as much.

Still waiting to hear Handley/Liverpool Phil., which gets high praise by some (or was that LSO/Hickox on Chandos???)

Not a bad performance / recording here at BBC Proms 2012 (Andrew Manze):











I have not heard all cycle versions.


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