# Old dogs, new tricks?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It seems to me that people mostly develop a liking for classical music at a relatively young age. Past that age, a person is unlikely to ever have a taste for classical music -- though there are certainly exceptions.

What do you think? Do you agree? If so, what's that "critical age"?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

120 years old, mainly because you are underground.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

It does seem that if you're not exposed to classical music as a child, you'll never listen as an adult. I know there are exceptions to this, but maybe you could make this generalization. 

As for a critical age, I always think of aged nine. I remember reading about many successful people who were interviewed and they were asked who was their favourite or most influential teacher, and all said their grade 4 teacher. That's when they're nine. And some child psychologists have said that morals are formed by the time we are nine. Take that for what it's worth. Probably as many exceptions to this as people who don't fit this.

So I seem to be saying that there needs to be classical music in your life before the age of nine. There was in mine.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I tend to notice that as people age, they become more locked into their habits and interests. I've seen a lot of older guys who absolutely refuse to have anything to do with any new music or anything other than what they already know. For myself, I became obsessed with classical music at the age of 21 and I'm 25 now. Before 21, I had no interest at all. So I think you can develop a taste for classical music as your age advances, but it becomes less and less likely. As for a "critical age" or more specifics on age, I'd probably guess that once you hit your 30's, your level of musical stubbornness probably start rising pretty quickly. This is all just the opinion of a 25 year old who has observed other people so I don't actually have the real-life experience to speak for older ages.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The only critical thing pertinent to classical music and starting not only young but very young is if the person has the ability and hopes to be a world-class performing soloist, or have a career as a permanent chair player in one of the world-class orchestral ensembles.

For listeners, as Aleazk already said, anytime the door opens, the light goes on, they've entered the room, look around, like what they find and find themselves curious enough to essay further adventure _-- and are still alive --_ is all that counts.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

It's difficult to say. Everyone is different. I think it would be more common (just a guess, however) for people to develop a taste for classical as they age and grow tired of youth-oriented popular music. Many seem to get started as young adults on film soundtracks that _might_ entice them to explore further. I don't think there is a critical age, but, rather, a reaching of a point of dissatisfaction. This can happen at any period in a person's life. For me, it really was my late teens/early twenties, but I think that is not so common (with the exception of those who grew up taking music lessons). I think classical belongs to an outlook that comes with experience and maturity.

What makes you think that the taste must develop when "relatively young," KenOC?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I didn't start listening until I was a bit older, post-college really (although I dabbled before).

You could make an argument that people are more peer-focused as children and thus less likely to get into Classical at that age. Once you grow up, you don't worry about what your classmates think is cool.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

senza sordino said:


> It does seem that if you're not exposed to classical music as a child, you'll never listen as an adult. I know there are exceptions to this, but maybe you could make this generalization.
> 
> As for a critical age, I always think of aged nine. I remember reading about many successful people who were interviewed and they were asked who was their favourite or most influential teacher, and all said their grade 4 teacher. That's when they're nine. And some child psychologists have said that morals are formed by the time we are nine. Take that for what it's worth. Probably as many exceptions to this as people who don't fit this.
> 
> So I seem to be saying that there needs to be classical music in your life before the age of nine. There was in mine.


See, we already have a major difference in our "critical ages" here lol. I think that early age(9) is critical as well but my guess of 30 was just based on the fact that I feel most people are at their absolute creative peaks in their 20's and I think this creativity allows for expansion into new territories. Now obviously not all classical composers write their best stuff in their 20's because there is such a craft to composing, but as far as creativity, I'd guess 20's is the peak and then it starts declining.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brotagonist said:


> What makes you think that the taste must develop when "relatively young," KenOC?


Just my personal observations over many years, that's all. Nor did I say it "must" develop -- there are always exceptions. But I think that's just what they are -- exceptions.

Others may have had different experiences!


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Just my personal observations over many years, that's all.


I hope you aren't right :lol: because it would mean that there will be few people getting into classical in the future. Few young people today are interested in it.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Dustin said:


> *Now obviously not all classical composers write their best stuff in their 20's* because there is such a craft to composing, but as far as creativity, I'd guess 20's is the peak and then it starts declining.


Very few. I can't think of any.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

I am an example of what KenOC is talking about. My mother played Mozart to her belly before I was born and I grew up on Mozart and Beethoven till around the age of 12 when I began to branch out (Gould helped me branch out so just giving credit where its due).



> I hope you aren't right because it would mean that there will be few people getting into classical in the future. Few young people today are interested in it.


I hate to be bleak about your concern but until I found the TC site a week ago I've not had anyone to talk to about classical with in my 31 years of life (probably why I'm blowing up the threads all week). I was lucky my parents had classical cds but they weren't into it like we are here, for my parents it was mostly nice music to have on in the background. When I started getting into Shostakovich my mother hated it, so yeah I hope I'm wrong but I'm skeptical.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> Very few. I can't think of any.


 Well I guess that's true but that's why I followed it up with the later part of the sentence. What I really mean is simply raw creativity is probably it's highest in the 20's. Classical composers are a big exception because they are such masterful architects which helps as much as or more than the natural creativity. And I'm simply trying to say I think that peak creativity window would be the time where most people would want to capitalize on the ability to expand their horizons.

Edit: Referring back to your original comment, maybe Chopin half-heartedly fits my description since I believe his 20's were much more prolific than his 30's despite writing a few of his best overall works in his 30's.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Dustin said:


> What I really mean is simply raw creativity is probably it's highest in the 20's.


True for mathematicians. Composers are all over the map. Beethoven changed the world from 32 to 42 years old and had a pretty significant renewal after that. Rossini quit at 38, but he was a lazy SOB. Mozart was going from strength to strength at that age, and Haydn was still peaking at well past 60. We won't even talk about Janacek...


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## Mesenkomaha (Jun 24, 2014)

I'm 26 and this was the year that classical music hooked me. My first exposure to the genre came as a child through video games. I fell in love with the scores from games by Squaresoft specifically. Nobuo Uematsu is a great composer. I feel that his tunes had an impact on my life and maybe why I am able to jump into CM today.

CM is about 90% of what my young boys listen to although that isn't really a choice when I have it on all day. They don't mind though, my two year old calls all CM "Sousa music".


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

I have, over the years, managed to get some adult friends of mine to develop at least some appreciation for classical music. Interestingly, the pieces they liked most were for the most part not the famous old warhorses like Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Beethoven's more dramatic symphonies. They often responded more enthusiastically to Stravinsky and Shostakovich! Here and there I also get very enthusiastic responses to Renaissance music. 

But none of them have really become huge CM fans in the process. Perhaps it is true that you have to be exposed to it from a young age. I after all never really warmed to most pop music either, though I think I developed a more solid appreciation for some of it than any of my friends ever developed for CM.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

I too have had luck with turning some "uninitiated" friends on to Shostakovich, but that doesn't mean they want to study his works or sit around and discourse about it which is what I've always really wanted. Oh well I've got all of you.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> It seems to me that people mostly develop a liking for classical music at a relatively young age. Past that age, a person is unlikely to ever have a taste for classical music -- though there are certainly exceptions.
> 
> What do you think? Do you agree? If so, what's that "critical age"?


I think I have met about same numbers who discover CM at young ages and later in life (i.e. middle aged and beyond).


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I've had an interest in classical since I was about 19 and really got into it when I was 25/26 (now 28). I guess many come to classical in their 20s. Sort of makes sense, since the change from teenager to adulthood requires a re-orientation in many areas of life.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Very few. I can't think of any.


Actually I have a couple of well-known examples in my mind, both by Mendelssohn, both written when the composer was 16-17:
- the string octet;
- the overture for A Mid-Summer Night's Dream;
IMO his masterpieces.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

I sat in front of my parent's stereo as far back as I can remember. I know 100% I was in diapers listening to Mozart. My parents didn't make me listen to them. They just had some kind of subscription and got a lot of Musical Heritage Society albums and BBC music albums. I listened to more music than I watched TV. Other kids where watching cartoons, I was stuck to the stereo. If I did watch a movie, it was Amadeus or Fantasia.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I didn't start listening frequently to classical music until my 30s. I had heard some pieces and regularly attended the Nutcracker when I was young, but I never thought of classical music as something I wanted to explore at all until early 30s. It was not until my 40s that I started listening seriously.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Well, this is a thought provoking thread. I know this is an n=1 experiment and thus not generalizable but I was exposed to mainstream classical music quite heavily from about 5 years old. I didn't discover the 20th century repertoire until my 20s. However, I had been listening to much avant garde rock as a teenager into my early 20s and I think this may have opened the door to 20th century CM. I didn't listen to any contemporary CM until my late 40s, but by then I`d listened to quite a bit of contemporary rock and jazz because my son was listening to it. And - I was exposed to just one contemporary CM work as a young child, at an SNO concert. Now, I don`t know how all these things are related, and whether these are causal chains, but something has enabled me to keep an open mind / ear to new music.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I got into classical in my early 20s or possibly sooner. I did not pursue it for many years after my late 20s, but a few years ago came back to it and it is now my mainstay.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

In college, my best friend, who had not been exposed to classical music at home, was curious about my love for it and asked me how to begin learning about it. He majored in anthropology, and was broadly interested in the development of civilization and culture, so I suggested he listen to and think about music from that perspective. He proceeded to devour Grout's _History of Western __Music_ and to amass, in conjunction with his reading and with occasional advice from me, a huge library of recordings. His passion reached extraordinary proportions, and his knowledge reached the point where he was teaching me some things I didn't know.

I doubt that many people go about initiating themselves in this way, but an aesthetically susceptible person's general interests can obviously provide a context for developing a love for classical music at a later age.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I got a big dose of Russian music in early childhood — my mother would listen with me and talk me through ballet suites, program music, and symphonies by Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakoff, Prokofiev, etc. between the ages of 4-7. Lost contact with it and got into rock from like 12-14, then progressive rock and jazz from 15-16, which led me right back to classical music. Russian music is still my natural dialect, if that makes any sense.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> In college, my best friend, who had not been exposed to classical music at home, was curious about my love for it and asked me how to begin learning about it. He majored in anthropology, and was broadly interested in the development of civilization and culture, so I suggested he listen to and think about music from that perspective. He proceeded to devour Grout's _History of Western __Music_ and to amass, in conjunction with his reading and with occasional advice from me, a huge library of recordings. His passion reached extraordinary proportions, and his knowledge reached the point where he was teaching me some things I didn't know.
> 
> I doubt that many people go about initiating themselves in this way, but an aesthetically susceptible person's general interests can obviously provide a context for developing a love for classical music at a later age.


Well that's encouraging I will agree that there's something about classical music that makes you want more, not just to hear it but to read more about it as well.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

In my younger and more impressionable years, my mum and dad forced their old classic rock records upon me, whilst my elder brother exposed me to all manner of trashy chart music. I discovered classical music independently aged 16 or so.

Now the tables have turned and I force my classical CDs upon my family members, e.g. whenever in long car journeys or whenever they come to my house. For the most part, CM just seems to annoy them, unfortunately. My dad doesn't seem to appreciate anything with more than three chords. My mum likes Beethoven's 9th and that's about it... and now that piece drives me mad because she plays it endlessly on repeat mode. My brother likes some of the "epic, adrenaline pumping" pieces, but doesn't have the attention span to follow much else.

Moral of the story: form my own limited experience, it probably helps to start young, before too many musical prejudices set in. In addition, it does take a bit of time and effort to explore a subject as vast as CM, and I guess young people often have more spare time.


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