# The Orchestra



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

So. The orchestra.
It has undergone centuries of reviewing and alterations and is constantly changing. There are many variations -- string orchestras, wind orchestras etc. -- which is your favourite, and how would you change the orchestra?
My thoughts: I would change the second violin part so that it could be played by both violins and violas and have a string 'harmony part'. This part would be divided when necessary.

(Please don't say too much about the guitar. There's already a thread for that  )


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Is this when you are writing for orchestra or would you unilaterally change the scoring of other works?

Actually, that proposal is vaguely reminiscent of junior school orchestra scores that often have 1st, 2nd and 3rd violins with the 3rd part printed out again in alto clef with some tinkering to the registration for any hapless violas there might happen to be.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

dgee said:


> Is this when you are writing for orchestra or would you unilaterally change the scoring of other works?
> 
> Actually, that proposal is vaguely reminiscent of junior school orchestra scores that often have 1st, 2nd and 3rd violins with the 3rd part printed out again in alto clef with some tinkering to the registration for any hapless violas there might happen to be.


This is for writing for orchestra, though if you really want to you could say how you would change the scoring of other works.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I have a dummy question, maybe:

Usually the strings are seated like this










with the double bass section behind the cellos

Sometimes the second violins switch positions with the cellos










Always with the double basses behind the cellos

Why? Maybe some changes over time, but now does it depend on the conductor's preference?

Thanks


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Vienna Philharmonic as it performed the Mahler 6 in the Leonard Bernstein performance. I wouldn't change a thing! I would be forever happy!


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## Animato (Dec 5, 2013)

I would say, it is pure convention how the strings are seated, GioCar.

Did anyone listen to a wind-orchestra yet? If they are bad, it is awful, if they are good, it is absolutely amazing and even more faszinating than a normal orchestra. The range between ppp and fff is much broader with a wind-orchestra and the tutti-sound is more homogenuous (if this word exists), because there are only "one type" of instruments, which produce their sound with wind.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

@GloCar. I’ve been to many concerts where the two violin sections were arranged on either side of the conductor. As I understood it, this was by the conductor’s preference. Splitting the two violin sections can put in more relief the dialogue that can occur between them. As an audience member I quite enjoyed this arrangement. It also spreads out the overall tonality of an orchestra, avoiding having much of the upper register on the left and the lower on the right when the cellos and bass are in their traditional positions. However, I’m sure there are many compositions where the melody is passed from the violins to the cellos that would lose the effect of the lateral handoff from left to right with this alternate arrangement.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Went to listen to the Halle play last weekend and they had the 2 violin sections either side of the conductor, never noted this before at a concert and thought it gave the sound a better balance overall


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## Aaconn (Oct 22, 2014)

What would happen when if you would switch the strings with the winds?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Of course, if the composer originally writes for orchestra with Vlns I on the left and Vlns 2 on the right side of the conductor, he may well have in mind that the sound coming from the two bodies of instruments will be different for the audience, since the first violins will have their bodies facing the listeners while the second violins, with their bodies facing toward the back wall, will be more muted in sound. Such a consideration could certainly lead to how the strings are treated in their respective parts. Perhaps conductors should be aware of how composers utilized their own orchestras rather than simply rely upon "preferences". And I think conductors do generally consider such things.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

It seems that the positioning of the first/second violins is a matter of personal preference. I've seen about half of each when I have attended concerts. Not half of each at once, of course.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> Of course, if the composer originally writes for orchestra with Vlns I on the left and Vlns 2 on the right side of the conductor, he may well have in mind that the sound coming from the two bodies of instruments will be different for the audience, since the first violins will have their bodies facing the listeners while the second violins, with their bodies facing toward the back wall, will be more muted in sound. Such a consideration could certainly lead to how the strings are treated in their respective parts. Perhaps conductors should be aware of how composers utilized their own orchestras rather than simply rely upon "preferences". And I think conductors do generally consider such things.


Well, As far as I remember from my music studies, the first orchestras (Haydn and so) used to have used to have Vlns I on the left and Vlns 2 on the right side of the conductor (who was the 1st violin), as it was for the first string quartet ensembles. 
At a certain point they changed and took the more common arrangement Vlns I - Vlns 2 - Violas - Cellos (from left to right).

I don't remember why and I am not even sure 100% that things went in that way...


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