# Masterpieces hidden in boxes



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

What great pieces do we never hear in concert and are only tucked away in corners of box sets? Tonight I listened to Mozart's unnumbered "Old Lambach" symphony, K.Anh. 221 K.45a. This symphony, written in 1766 when Mozart was ten, is regarded as authentic. The outer movements are unexceptional, but the 2nd movement Andante is great, much like an early Haydn quartet or a more-than-usually inspired Boccherini.

Sorry, there's no decent YouTube link and it doesn't seem to be on NML. It's in the Pinnock symphony set, but not in the Mackerras/Prague.

How about you? Any suggestions?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I'd nominate Stravinsky's Threni, a 12-tone piece on texts from the Bible's Lamentations combining influences from Krenek (who had written a piece of the same subject), Webern, and Renaissance polyphony. There are only two commercial recordings available. One is in the Sony Stravinsky set, conducted by the composer, and it has its virtues, but feels a little rough. The other (which is out of print) was conducted by Robert Craft for Koch, and it's less rough, but lacks some of the other version's fire.

I think it's pretty clear why it's never performed. It's a difficult score to perform, requiring a large orchestra (including the contrabass sarrusophone) and several soloists, but it's not flashy or showy at all, and probably won't draw a crowd by itself.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Mahlerian said:


> I'd nominate Stravinsky's Threni, a 12-tone piece on texts from the Bible's Lamentations combining influences from Krenek (who had written a piece of the same subject), Webern, and Renaissance polyphony.


I've got to hear that one. Thanks!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I'd nominate Stravinsky's Threni, a 12-tone piece on texts from the Bible's Lamentations combining influences from Krenek (who had written a piece of the same subject), Webern, and Renaissance polyphony. There are only two commercial recordings available. One is in the Sony Stravinsky set, conducted by the composer, and it has its virtues, but feels a little rough. The other (which is out of print) was conducted by Robert Craft for Koch, and it's less rough, but lacks some of the other version's fire.
> 
> I think it's pretty clear why it's never performed. It's a difficult score to perform, requiring a large orchestra (including the contrabass sarrusophone) and several soloists, but it's not flashy or showy at all, and probably won't draw a crowd by itself.


Woah, I've never heard of this piece.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I've heard of it. I own the box set, but haven't listened to it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I don't know exactly how well or little known it is, but how about Schumann's beautiful piece "Marchenerlahzungen" for clarinet, viola and piano.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

violadude said:


> Woah, I've never heard of this piece.


I'm still waiting for a recording that does it justice. In addition to the two I mentioned, there's also a live one from Haitink and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, but I haven't heard it, and it's only available on a set that costs several hundred on Amazon.



violadude said:


> I don't know exactly how well or little known it is, but how about Schumann's beautiful piece "Marchenerlahzungen" for clarinet, viola and piano.


I haven't heard it before. I'll listen right now.


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I'd nominate Stravinsky's Threni, a 12-tone piece on texts from the Bible's Lamentations combining influences from Krenek (who had written a piece of the same subject), Webern, and Renaissance polyphony. There are only two commercial recordings available. One is in the Sony Stravinsky set, conducted by the composer, and it has its virtues, but feels a little rough. The other (which is out of print) was conducted by Robert Craft for Koch, and it's less rough, but lacks some of the other version's fire.
> 
> I think it's pretty clear why it's never performed. It's a difficult score to perform, requiring a large orchestra (including the contrabass sarrusophone) and several soloists, but it's not flashy or showy at all, and probably won't draw a crowd by itself.


I'm pretty sure you have heard this before, but if you are interested in Stravinsky's Renaissance side, check out Canticum Sacrum. I'm shocked to see that most people completely ignore Stravinsky's late output, while it boasts some of the greatest music he had ever written.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I haven't heard it before. I'll listen right now.


What did you think?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SottoVoce said:


> I'm pretty sure you have heard this before, but if you are interested in Stravinsky's Renaissance side, check out Canticum Sacrum. I'm shocked to see that most people completely ignore Stravinsky's late output, while it boasts some of the greatest music he had ever written.


I think the only late Stravinsky piece I'm familiar with is Agon, which I think is a really fun and awesome piece! The opening sounds like the innovation and modernism of the 20th century reflected in music.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

With the strong Mahlerian advocacy I had to dust of the Complete Stravinsky boxed LPset on Columbia...
Interesting, I must have listened to it previously but have no memory of it, less rhythmical than the Symphony of Psalms, I have a real difficulty with Tenors that sing on the top of their voice. The spoken Choir against the low instruments is very likable! But I wonder if a modern recorded version would put it in a very different light?

FWIW, I've never liked Robert Craft's recordings, he may be the supreme gatekeeper of the Stravinsky legacy, but on the whole he is an amateur conductor that makes Gilbert Kaplan seem like a pro... 

/ptr


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Talking of Gilbert Kaplan, wasn't there a hidden gem on one of his versions of the Second? (Mahler Symphony that is) .. Someone had dug out some Piano Rolls or Edison Rolls (?) where Mahler plays Mahler... I have a vague memory...

/ptr


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

Gotta find a good recording of the Schumann - youtube recital didn't seem to be doing it justice. Listened to a bit of the Stravinsky, too, but I doubt I'll spend much time with repeated listening. I appreciate the unique sounds Stravinsky got during his 12 tone period, but I've never thought the music itself was good. To each his own, though.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

talking of Mozart, How many people know of this fine work? It's hardly ever performed-


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

violadude said:


> What did you think?


I liked it a lot! The first movement or so had a lighter flavor than I usually associate with Schumann, and then we hit a movement with his favorite indication "Lebhaft", with all the typical Schumann vigor.



violadude said:


> I think the only late Stravinsky piece I'm familiar with is Agon, which I think is a really fun and awesome piece! The opening sounds like the innovation and modernism of the 20th century reflected in music


I think you were listening to a set of Stravinsky's songs a few months ago. The later ones of those were from his late period (Elegy for JFK, In Memorium Dylan Thomas, Three Songs from Shakespeare).



SottoVoce said:


> I'm pretty sure you have heard this before, but if you are interested in Stravinsky's Renaissance side, check out Canticum Sacrum. I'm shocked to see that most people completely ignore Stravinsky's late output, while it boasts some of the greatest music he had ever written.


Canticum Sacrum is also a great piece. I think most people ignore Stravinsky's late works because they find the surface austerity off-putting. It's the same reason why Webern gets the ridiculous appellations of "academic" or "cold", neither of which have anything to do with the music.



ptr said:


> Interesting, I must have listened to it previously but have no memory of it, less rhythmical than the Symphony of Psalms, I have a real difficulty with Tenors that sing on the top of their voice. The spoken Choir against the low instruments is very likable! But I wonder if a modern recorded version would put it in a very different light?


I don't like the tone of the main tenor solo on the Columbia recording. It sounds like he's straining the entire time, when, like Schoenberg's Aron, he should have a light effortless quality to his voice. That said, the piece is really demanding on singers. Did you notice that the basso profundo has to sing a falsetto D above middle C?



ptr said:


> FWIW, I've never liked Robert Craft's recordings, he may be the supreme gatekeeper of the Stravinsky legacy, but on the whole he is an amateur conductor that makes Gilbert Kaplan seem like a pro...


I don't think anyone really thinks that highly of Robert Craft. What I'm really waiting for is a version of Threni conducted by a Gielen or a Knussen.


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