# HIP hints - guidance from Chopin's letters



## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

The trouble with HIP is that sometimes people think they're historically informed and have reached the destination when in fact they're only on the journey. There are HIP recordings that in my opinion have lost their way - on original instruments for instance where "wonderful music but shame about the instrument". In pianos I've been disappointed by poor quality treble, dull, not resonant and not singing. Very often this is as a result of the bridge having become detached from the soundboard and this is an area to which I've given special attention for the recordings posted recently on the 1819 Broadwood and 1802 Stodart.

We might have the instruments, and they might guide us around challenges which composers and performers had to overcome at the time, but a trove of information is available in some archives of which the Chopin Letters are a category.

Upon starting to read them I hope some passages I've picked out might be helpful. Perhaps mods of the forum might even consider this thread as a sticky as a helpful enduring resource.

They're to be found on www.archive.org/stream/chopinsletters00chop/chopinsletters00chop_djvu.txt



> To Jan Białobłocki.
> [Warsaw] Thursday, [8] September [1825~\.
> 
> Dear and Beloved Jasia!
> ...


This is interesting as the Pantoleon was an instrument normally without dampers. This would have influenced Chopin's ideas of pedalling, and the tuning necessary for there not to be blurring of sound.

C F Colt of the Colt Collection wrote helpfully https://www.jstor.org/stable/3125791 about the instrument 


> Furthermore, another
> device made it possible to remove the dampers to
> obtain a 'Pantaleon' effect'which at that time was
> becoming fashionable through Hebenstreit's recitals
> ...


The Chopin letter continues


> Besides that, a
> certain Mr. Rembieliński, a nephew of the President, 2 has come
> to Warsaw from Paris. He has been there 6 years, and plays
> the piano as I have never yet heard it played. You can imagine
> ...





> Warsaw [November 1825] .
> 
> Dear Jasia!
> 
> ...





> [Monday, 15 May 1826.]
> 
> Dear, Beloved Jasio!
> 
> ...





> [Warsaw, June 1826.]
> 
> Dear Jasia!
> 
> ...





> To Jan Białobłocki.
> 
> Warsaw [Saturday], 2 November [1826],
> 
> ...





> To Tytus Wojciechowski in Poturzyń
> Warsaw, 27 December 1828.
> 
> Dearest Tytus!
> ...


So we see here an admiration for an instrument played very differently to the piano and distinguishable as a Pandaleon or Pantalon https://www.fortepiano-collection.net/square-pianos--grand-pianos for which tuning was critical to express emotion. https://www.squarepianos.com/pantalon.html

This calls for an examination of tuning, harmonic tuning so that notes of the scale accord with the harmonics of the strings, different keys expressing different emotions, so indicating temperaments geared either to perfect thirds or perfect fifths, and played without dampers, a technique preventing jangling. This is why the playing of my pianist friend from Italy hits the mark for me, and why he likes my tunings https://www.talkclassical.com/59320-chopins-nocturnes-4.html Perhaps the sound of the 1819 Broadwood is closer to what Chopin might have liked than we thought. Likewise I'm enamoured with the sound of the 1802 Stodart which for me evokes the hammered dulcimer. These instruments were very much part of the soundscape of the period and give a new dimension to HIP.

But in the next tranche of letter reading I'll be picking out instances of Chopin's liking for the 1820s Graf piano.

Perhaps others might help with observations and continuations of interest.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

From French wiki on the pantalon they used lute strings, with a distinct consequence for their tone



> Dans Dialogue sur la musique des anciens (1725), l'abbé François de Châteauneuf le décrit ainsi : « . . . ce qu'on y remarquait de plus singulier (parce qu'on l'avait inutilement tenté jusqu'ici), c'est qu'au lieu de cordes de clavecin qui sentent toujours l'aigreur de leur matière, c'étaient des cordes de luth. »


I'm not a French speaker really, so I'm not totally sure what "aigreur" means in a musical context -- shrillness maybe.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

An example of the charming Pantalon without dampers. This one sounds like it's tuned using the equal but not mean temperament:


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

No doubt in following through the texts I'll miss something so it will be great if others perhaps can look through the text and check for items of performance interest.

However, it's appropriate to look at his writing, and his music, from a different age. It was an age where life would be much more raw than perhaps any of us are accustomed to today, and in which emotions, of highs and lows were intense. Perhaps the lack of intensity of emotions now is why many turn to drugs, but life itself in the raw 200 years ago was all and more than can be experienced through the greyness of the modern times, and the music expressed all of it.

The following letter might be an example:


> To his Family.
> Vienna, 1 August 1829.
> 
> My dearest Parents and Sisters!
> ...


Next some hints about instruments:


> To his Family.
> Vienna, 8 August 1829.
> . . .
> 
> ...





> To his Family.
> 
> [Vienna] Wednesday, 12 August 1829.
> 
> ...


In the same letter


> I improvised on a theme from the White Lady. At the request
> of the stage manager, who liked my Rondo so much at rehearsal
> that yesterday, after the concert, he squeezed my hand and
> said : - " J a, das Rondo muss hier gespielt werden " ; 3 - at
> ...


Footnote from the editor:


> 1 An orgiastic drinking-song, very popular at peasant weddings. Chmiel is
> the hop-vine. The use of the third mode in a song of this gay and riotous charac-
> ter is sufficiently unusual to explain to some extent the startling effect of the tune.





> Nidecki in particular showed me great friendliness yes-
> terday; he looked through and corrected the orchestral parts,
> and was genuinely pleased at the applause.
> 
> ...





> To his Family.
> 
> [Vienna] Thursday, 13. 8 [1829].
> 
> ...





> To his Family.
> 
> [Vienna] 19 August 1829.
> . . .
> ...





> To his Family.
> Dresden, 26 August 1829.
> . . .
> 
> ...





> To Tytus Wojciechowski in Poturzyń.
> Warsaw, 12 September 1829.
> 
> . . .
> ...


So we see here a second mention of delicacy - sadly lacking in so many modern performances. Real HIP has a lot to give us.



> Warsaw, 3 October 1829.
> 
> Dear Tytus!
> 
> ...


Here we see matter of importance of balance between treble and bass, and that the music should convey its feelings automagically without need of description in writing.



> Warsaw, 20 October 1829.
> 
> Dearest Tytus!
> . . .
> ...





> [Warsaw] Saturday, 27 March 1830.
> 
> My dearest Life!
> 
> ...


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

In the last letter perhaps I might have highlighted matters concerning the piano


> so *at the next concert I played on a Viennese
> piano instead of on my own. Diaków, the Russian general, was
> kind enough to lend me his own instrument, which is better than
> Hummel's; *and consequently the audience, an even larger one
> ...


Does anyone have any clues as to which instruments he might have been comparing here?

Generally we see a whirlwind of concerts, and of attending opera and admiring singing, and occasional mentions of organ playing.



> Warsaw, 15 May 1830. Saturday.
> 
> My dearest Life!
> 
> ...





> Warsaw, Saturday, 21 August 1830.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...





> Still in Warsaw; Tuesday, 31 August 1830.
> 
> Dearest Tytus!
> . . .
> ...


So we have here considerations of resonance and of balance.



> [Warsaw] Saturday, probably 4 September 1830.
> 
> Dearest Tycia!
> . . .
> ...





> Warsaw, 18 September 1830.
> 
> My Dearest Life!
> . . .
> ...





> Warsaw, Wednesday morning, 22 September 1830.
> 
> My dearest Life!
> . . .
> ...





> [Warsaw] 5 October [1830].
> 
> My dearest Life!
> . . .
> ...





> [Warsaw] Tuesday, 12 October 1830.
> 
> My dearest Life!
> 
> ...





> Dresden, 14 November 1830.
> 
> Klengel, when I got to know him better, that is, when I played
> him my concerto, said that it reminded him of Field's playing,
> ...





> To his Family.
> 
> Vienna, 1 December 1830.
> . . .
> ...


So we see here why my Italian friend refers to the Emerich Betsy 1854 piano with leather hammers and bright tone, and the 1819 Broadwood as currently strung which I don't believe to be original as unsuitable for Chopin and why the 1859 Broadwood recordings might possibly be of the best.





We have a couple of other recordings on this instrument of some Chopin which I will bring forward in due course.



> To Jan Matuszyński in Warsaw.
> 
> Vienna. Christmas Day, Sunday morning. Last year at this
> hour I was with the Bernadines. Today I am sitting alone, in a
> ...


We see continued contact with the Pantoleon - so study of Chopin technique to allow playing significantly without dampers is in order




as well as familiarity with Moscheles and opprobrium for Thalberg's insensitivity.

However, the currently light strung 1819 Broadwood 




is nearer to the Pantoleon sound so perhaps nearer suitability than we thought.

Despite his comments on Thalberg, clearly he gets on with him - 


> Vienna, 28 May 1831.
> . . .
> After dinner yesterday I went with Thalberg to the Evan-
> gelical church, where Hesse, a young organist from Wrocław,
> ...


So clearly Chopin understands the sustain and singing of an organ . . . and of the organ in large acoustic, as well as resonance and harmonic building inherent in the sound.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The Chopin letters are of some interest on the different makes of pianos and the qualities he enjoyed. So are the examples that came later, especially the 1859 Broadwood with outstanding sound. I think it shows how great some of these vintage instruments could sound in their day, even perhaps today. But these letters are when he was 19, a very young man, and none of them reveal anything about how he wanted his pianos _tuned_ or establish any precedence in any other tuning but the equal. Nothing mentioned about a piano tuner, nothing mentioned about a temperament. He seemed oblivious of it and far more interested in different makes of pianos and their qualities, but nothing whatsoever about tunings, and yet on the forum the unequal temperament has perhaps been suggested as something he might have used. What about a judicious selection of letters from later in his life that suggest something more specific with regard to the possible tunings he may have used?


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> none of [the Chopin letters] reveal anything about how he wanted his pianos _tuned_ or establish any precedence in any other tuning but the equal. Nothing mentioned about a piano tuner, nothing mentioned about a temperament. He seemed oblivious of it and far more interested in different makes of pianos and their qualities, but nothing whatsoever about tunings, and yet on the forum the unequal temperament has perhaps been suggested as something he might have used. What about a judicious selection of letters from later in his life that suggest something more specific with regard to the possible tunings he may have used?


Alas, there are no explicit pronouncements by Chopin on the temperament he preferred. Tuning manuals and guides available in Europe during Chopin's lifetime feature uneven temperaments that allowed for playing in every key while preserving some amount of key coloration. Since Chopin was so sensitive to issues of tonality, timbre, and dynamic, it seems likely that he would have taken temperament into account when at the piano. George Sand reminisces on how Chopin would arpeggiate at the piano until he found the right 'color', describing the 'soft colors corresponding to the suave modulations' she heard. The level of attention Chopin gave to the choice of a key indicates that temperament may very realistically have had an influence on the content of his work.

The only reference to piano tuning by Chopin is in a letter written towards the end of his life to his friend Julian Fontana when he was distressed and concerned he could no longer find an instrument tuned to his taste. It suggests the vital role temperament held for him: "All those with whom I was in most intimate harmony have died and left me. Even Ennike, our best tuner, has gone and drowned himself; and so I have not in the whole world a piano tuned to suit me."


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

Yes - I'm getting there. But others can too from the link in this thread.

It's apparent from the letters that he didn't himself tune, and that there was one tuner Ennike who he favoured and clearly he didn't care much for the rest. That implies something special and possibly a hangover from the old days of the old techniques which were being superseded by Montal's influence. He mentions Pleyel much and Erard only once.

The link that you provided to the Pantalon was very illuminating. The ability to reduce modes of confusion, modes of vibration by reason of limiting the numer of tuned pitches and their harmonics is important. Taking the mode reduction to the extreme, the harp succeeds as an instrument without dampers by having only 7 strings to the octave, reducing sympathetic vibration to just 7 pitches and their harmonics. When we increase that to 11 then in equal temperament where harmonics are just off the scale notes, the just off harmonics will be excited and will produce beating sympathetic vibrations. Where you have the scale notes tuned to the harmonics, in Werkmeister and 1/4 tone Meantone, 8 perfect fifths or thirds or 7 perfect fifths with Kirnberger III or Kellner, then you force the out of tune strings further away from the sympathetic vibration realm so making them irrelevant and the sustain happens only with what is harmonious and what sings.

It's clear from Chopin's letters that he was looking for the greatest refinements of sensitivity and did not suffer course playing happily.

Best wishes

David Pinnegar


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

> From his notebook.
> [Vienna, Spring 1831.]
> 
> . . . And I've started my third decade! - The papers
> ...





> To Tytus Wojciechowski in Poturzyń.
> Paris, 12 December 1831.
> 
> . . .
> ...





> To Dominik Dziewanowski.
> [Undated, Paris, 1832.~\
> 
> Dear Domus'!
> ...





> [In French. A joint letter to Ferdinand Hiller, from Liszt,
> Chopin and Franchomme.]
> 
> Paris, 20 June 1833.
> ...





> To JULJAN FONTANA IN PARIS.
> 
> [Palma, 19 November 1838.]
> 
> ...





> [Undated; beginning 1839.]
> 
> My Dear.
> 
> ...





> Marseilles, 7 March 1839.
> 
> In the second polonaise you have
> a sincere and truthful answer to your letter ; - it is not my
> ...





> To JULJAN FONTANA.
> 
> [Nohant] Thursday [August 1839].
> 
> ...





> To JULJAN FONTANA.
> 
> [Nohant] 2 July 1841.
> 
> ...





> To the Same.
> 
> [Postmark: 23 July 1841. Nohant.]
> 
> ...





> To the Same.
> [ Undated. ]
> 
> My Dear.
> ...





> To the Same.
> 
> [Nohant. Postmark: La Châtre, 11 August 1841.]
> 
> ...





> To Camille Pleyel.
> [Nohant, 1841?]
> 
> My very dear Friend,
> ...





> To JULJAN FONTANA.
> [Nohant. Postmark: 16 August 1841. La Châtre.]
> 
> Also remember me to Pleyel, whom you will see when
> ...


The letters continue with increasing focus on commercial aspects.


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

These extracts have reached around half way through. Perhaps others might like to assist with more extractions from the remainder? I love a mention later on where Chopin relates having had an odd dinner and complains there were no truffles. Are truffles rarer now than they used to be?

Best wishes

David P


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

"Be sure to swoop your arms expressively when you play my music, and punctuate the end of phrases by looking them in the eye and surely you will make the ladies swoon . . ."


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## David Pinnegar (Jan 16, 2019)

MarkW said:


> "Be sure to swoop your arms expressively when you play my music, and punctuate the end of phrases by looking them in the eye and surely you will make the ladies swoon . . ."


Perhaps this might be the style of Liszt or perhaps Thalberg but no mention of this in Chopin's letters that I can see. Where is the source?

Best wishes

David P


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

David Pinnegar said:


> Perhaps this might be the style of Liszt or perhaps Thalberg but no mention of this in Chopin's letters that I can see. Where is the source?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> David P


Sorry, I was being impish, as is my nature.


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