# Ukraine, Russia, & classical music



## Nawdry (Dec 27, 2020)

Under the circumstances of the horrific military conflict in Ukraine, I'd like to commemorate the monumental contributions to classical music that have emerged over the centuries from both Ukraine and Russia. My intention is to avoid a contentious discussion of the politics of the current situation; if you want such a discussion, I'd suggest opening it in the "Politics and Religion" sub-forum. However, I will voice my concern that animosity toward Russia may have unfortunate impact on classical music, possibly including the avoidance or elimination of Russian works in concert programs, or implications for performers themselves (including conductors).

In regard to the classical music contributions of Russia and Ukraine, just to commemorate legacy, I'll cite two relevant online articles:

Five Pivotal Ukrainian Classical Music Figures
https://www.wqxr.org/story/top-five-ukrainian-classical-music-figures/

The Best Russian Composers of All Time
https://www.ranker.com/list/best-russian-composers/ranker-music

In my own view, the classical music contributions from both countries/nationalities have been enormous, and human culture and civilization would be far poorer without them. This should be kept in mind particularly in this period of conflict and crisis.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I think it is rather easy to separate historical Russian music from the aggressive kleptocracy of today's Russia. While a toady like Gergiev will likely find it hard to work for the next few years, the works of Tchaikovsky or Shostakovitch are almost certainly safe.


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

Russia is a country where great classical pieces are still composed. And it seems like classical art overall maintained a higher rank in Russia compared to popular art than in the west.

Here a great work composed in 2008 conducted by Valery Gergiev:


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I think it is rather easy to separate historical Russian music from the aggressive kleptocracy of today's Russia.


You think the Russian Empire was less aggressive, less kleptocratic? The great russian music of the past was composed under circumstances that were not democratic at all.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Nawdry said:


> ..My intention is to avoid a contentious discussion of the politics of the current situation; if you want such a discussion, I'd suggest opening it in the "Politics and Religion" sub-forum. However, I will voice my concern that animosity toward Russia may have unfortunate impact on classical music, possibly including the avoidance or elimination of Russian works in concert programs, or implications for performers themselves (including conductors).
> 
> In my own view, the classical music contributions from both countries/nationalities have been enormous, and human culture and civilization would be far poorer without them. This should be kept in mind particularly in this period of conflict and crisis.


The Politics and Religion sub forum has been shut down for a few years. Personally, considering the loss of life and the major upheaval in people's lives going on, the effect on classical music is the furthest thing from my mind.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Aries said:


> You think the Russian Empire was less aggressive, less kleptocratic? The great russian music of the past was composed under circumstances that were not democratic at all.


Luckily, I generally don't care under what political, economic, or criminal circumstances a piece of art is created (except insofar as it is germane for understanding it better). I certainly don't want to line the pockets of current bad actors, but I feel no internal conflict enjoying a Tchaikovsky composition, a Picasso painting, a Michael Jackson song, etc.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I do not see how we can have this discussion without it getting out of hand and the thread getting closed down like it has occurred in other threads.


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## Nawdry (Dec 27, 2020)

DaveM said:


> The Politics and Religion sub forum has been shut down for a few years. Personally, considering the loss of life and the major upheaval in people's lives going on, the effect on classical music is the furthest thing from my mind.


The Politics and Religion subforum is indeed alive and well; I've posted there myself recently.

Via national news reports, I've been observing an ugly reaction against ethnic Russians and various things Russian, sparked by the current war in Ukraine. I perceive that it's possible for this indiscriminate anti-Russian animosity to spread into classical music, such that orchestras and other classical groups and performers would feel pressure to avoid music by Russian composers. Clearly, as outrageous behavior, this ranks much less egregious than the atrocities being committed in Ukraine, but it would be harmful in its own way.


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## RichardWagnerOfficial (Sep 11, 2021)

Nawdry said:


> animosity toward Russia may have unfortunate impact on classical music, possibly including the avoidance or elimination of Russian works in concert programs, or implications for performers themselves (including conductors).


Which is caused by a ridiculous desire of virtue signalling. Whatever your thoughts on the current situation (especially a situation so far away!), it has no bearing whatsoever on art and anyone who says otherwise should be beaten with a stick.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Nawdry said:


> The Politics and Religion subforum is indeed alive and well; I've posted there myself recently.
> 
> Via national news reports, I've been observing an ugly reaction against ethnic Russians and various things Russian, sparked by the current war in Ukraine. I perceive that it's possible for this indiscriminate anti-Russian animosity to spread into classical music, such that orchestras and other classical groups and performers would feel pressure to avoid music by Russian composers. Clearly, as outrageous behavior, this ranks much less egregious than the atrocities being committed in Ukraine, but it would be harmful in its own way.


I should have been more specific. The Politics and Religion in Classical Music is open, but you can't discuss any politics in the way you suggested (on the politics of the current situation) anywhere on TC.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

arpeggio said:


> I do not see how we can have this discussion without it getting out of hand and the thread getting closed down like it has occurred in other threads.


Indeed, as already shown by some of the remarks here. Closing the thread.


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