# Kirill Petrenko, new Berliner Philharmoniker chef. Who??



## otterhouse (Sep 6, 2007)

In 2018, that is... Seen the press conference live, yesterday.
Tried to find some recordings by Krill, what was difficult, as Vasily Petrenko recorded more.
No relation, as I understood.
Collected the recordings here

http://classicalspotify.blogspot.nl/2015/06/kirill-petrenko-spotify-new-berliner.html

What do you think of them?

Rolf
Netherlands


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

The best thing to do right now is hope that the contract is for the season 2018-19. A temporary, minor inconvenience he is until they can settle down and elect a more appropriate head for an orchestra of such legendary stature.

Perhaps someone not so young. Energetic? Perhaps.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Lord Lance said:


> The best thing to do right now is hope that the contract is for the season 2018-19. A temporary, minor inconvenience he is until they can settle down and elect a more appropriate head for an orchestra of such legendary stature.
> 
> Perhaps someone not so young. Energetic? Perhaps.


I would be interested if you explained on your reasons for considering Petrenko 'inappropriate' for the Berlin post.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Their ability to keep with the times is what elevates the Berlin Philharmonic above certain other orchestras *coughViennacough*.
An orchestra not tied to the past. An appointment with the future in view.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Kirill Petrenko's discography is small at the moment (especially when compared to his namesake - but no relation - Vassily Petrenko). He has made a number of Suk recordings for cpo which have been very well received:

Asrael Symphony
A Summer's Tale
A Winter's Tale/Ripening

And some other notable recordings:

Pfitzer - Palestrina
Rakhmaninov - Piano Concerto No 2 (with Dejan Lazić)
Tchaikovsky - Mazeppa


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Judging by the title of this thread, his main responsibility will be cooking for the Orchestra :lol:
This reminds me a bit of Alan Gilbert's N.Y. Phil appointment , a relative unknown in a high profile position. The Orchestra itself chose him. It's 3 years until he assumes the post, so presumably he will have amassed a recording legacy by then


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm positive that the Berliner hive don't choose their Kapellmeister(s) based on what they have recorded previously but rather what they can achieve together! I think that Petreko might well be a very wise choice with his experience from several German Opera Houses!

/ptr


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

As it happens, the French use the term "chef d'orchestre" to describe a conductor. So all their conductors are cooks as well.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Delicious Manager said:


> I would be interested if you explained on your reasons for considering Petrenko 'inappropriate' for the Berlin post.


Very easy. Since I am Lord Lance's pal, I know him very well.

Lord Lance wants the following type of conductor from the BPO.

1) A guy who worships Karajan and Furtwangler
2) A guy who doesn't perform a single 20th century composition but only the old school stuff
3) A guy who is German in origin because the only type of conductor who deserves the BPO director-ship has to be Austrian, German, or someone from the nether lands. A Russian dude didn't seem to fit the bill.
4) A guy who believes in only tradition and supports an agenda which mostly should be Beethoven and Bruckner.

Not too difficult to figure out eh?

And don't forget Lance supported this dude for the winner (J/K).


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

I was astonished as everybody else. But I've read some good things about him. You'll find links to interesting articles from the Guardian and the NY times about him in my posts.

http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/06...ic-one-question-remains-who-the-heck-is-that/

http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/06/23/petrenko-berlinphil-follow-on-it-just-clicked/

I've also speculated on his first recorded symphony cycle.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Musicophile said:


> I was astonished as everybody else. But I've read some good things about him. You'll find links to interesting articles from the Guardian and the NY times about him in my posts.
> 
> http://musicophilesblog.com/2015/06...ic-one-question-remains-who-the-heck-is-that/
> 
> ...


I was not surprised. The BPO members are very forward-thinking and basically this is the equivalent of them giving the intellectual middle finger to the celebrity and star power establishment. The guys and gals there know what they are doing.

This same move happened here with the Utah Symphony happened when they exiled the terrible Keith Lockhart and we got Thierry Fischer instead. Life is good more so now.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Surely in the few concerts he has conducted with Berliner Philharmoniker he has impressed them enough to vote him in. I would be very surprised if they choose based on the end result rather than the ability to work together, and the few recordings that K. Petrenko has made probably accounts for this.

From what I have heard though, I _do_ find the 'end result' of his work and rehearsal to be very impressive!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Plus he is a nice and humble guy to work with and not some arrogant a****le like some people are.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The fact that he's conducted "Palestrina" has to be a plus. It's a work that every German conductor longs to perform, and most German musicians would like the opportunity to play. (It doesn't travel well.)


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> Plus he is a nice and humble guy to work with and not some arrogant a****le like some people are.


I agree: he seems quiet and reflective (which is unusual for a conductor), but is very charismatic in front of an orchestra to judge from the clips online. So it looks like a great choice: now all I need to know is what his music sounds like :lol:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Triplets said:


> Judging by the title of this thread, his main responsibility will be cooking for the Orchestra :lol:
> This reminds me a bit of Alan Gilbert's N.Y. Phil appointment , a relative unknown in a high profile position. The Orchestra itself chose him. It's 3 years until he assumes the post, so presumably he will have amassed a recording legacy by then


I would hardly describe someone who conducts regularly at Bayreuth and is MD at the Munich opera as being a relative unknown. One thing is very clear from some Digital Concert Hall interviews, the orchestra really likes working with him and, given the broad backgrounds of the current orchestra, that is significant.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Delicious Manager said:


> *Kirill Petrenko's discography is small at the moment (*especially when compared to his namesake - but no relation - Vassily Petrenko). He has made a number of Suk recordings for cpo which have been very well received:
> 
> Asrael Symphony
> A Summer's Tale
> ...


http://slippedisc.com/2015/06/berlins-new-chief-is-a-record-virgin/


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

I guy with jewish looks and Ukrainian family name and no recordings. BPO choice is nothing close to tedious.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Here are some excerpts I found on Youtube of him conducting:

Scriabin - 



Stravinsky - 



Stephan (?) - 




He's clearly very immersed in the music when he's conducting.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Times today says that Petrenko is the BPO's first Jewish principal conductor but I have read that Simn Rattle is also Jewish. Can someone confirm or deny?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

This is fantastic






The orchestra really does love this guy it seems! I might subscribe to the digital concert hall for his first season.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

DavidA said:


> http://slippedisc.com/2015/06/berlins-new-chief-is-a-record-virgin/


I really don't mind that he hasn't recorded much to be honest.

I think it's much better to have a conductor with experience in the concert hall and opera theatre than experience in the recoridng studio. It's really the live concerts and the rehearsals which count more towards a better reputation. There are some musicians today who fall into a trap of becoming recording artists; their ability to give brilliant concerts is lost and they rely on CDs and digital editing for their reputation. Petrenko also isn't new to conducting as he might be to recording. He has 20 years of experience and also a very good reputation among musicians. From all that I have seen, it seems like this will be a very positive orchestra-conductor partnership.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Well, he recorded this:









a beautiful polyphonic piece everybody should know.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

AnotherSpin said:


> I guy with jewish looks and Ukrainian family name and no recordings. BPO choice is nothing close to tedious.


Jewish looks?
He is relatively unknown to those of us that don't make the hike to Bayreuth. One suspects that he will be issuing more recordings in the next 3 years to boost his profile.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

DavidA said:


> The Times today says that Petrenko is the BPO's first Jewish principal conductor but I have read that Simn Rattle is also Jewish. Can someone confirm or deny?


I don't know about Rattle.
Jascha Horenstein conducted the BPO on and off from 1928 through the early 1960s, but he never was the Principal...


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2015)

AnotherSpin said:


> I guy with jewish looks and Ukrainian family name and no recordings. BPO choice is nothing close to tedious.





DavidA said:


> The Times today says that Petrenko is the BPO's first Jewish principal conductor but I have read that Simn Rattle is also Jewish. Can someone confirm or deny?


Will someone help me out with why Jewish looks/heritage is something I should care about here?


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Albert7 said:


> Very easy. Since I am Lord Lance's pal, I know him very well.
> 
> Lord Lance wants the following type of conductor from the BPO.
> 
> ...


Seriously, Alfie? I hear all eras, you should know that by now. For shame, dude. I do worship Karajan and Herr Furtwangler but do not consider that as a parameter of anything. Hey, German or Russian doesn't matter. Where do you gets these ideas?

I have heard a few of Petreko's performances and they all seems unremarkable. Even Rattle was better. His discography is severely limited and his youthful age has yet to show of his versatility and mastery of works.

I got sick of only Bruckner a long time ago. Haven't heard Beethoven's symphonies in weeks.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

DrMike said:


> Will someone help me out with why Jewish looks/heritage is something I should care about here?


Nothing for you to care at all about. I was merely asking out of curiosity. As I am married into a jewish family these things are of interest.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Lord Lance said:


> Seriously, Alfie? I hear all eras, you should know that by now. For shame, dude. I do worship Karajan and Herr Furtwangler but do not consider that as a parameter of anything. Hey, German or Russian doesn't matter. Where do you gets these ideas?
> 
> I have heard a few of Petreko's performances and they all seems unremarkable. Even Rattle was better. His discography is severely limited and his youthful age has yet to show of his versatility and mastery of works.
> 
> I got sick of only Bruckner a long time ago. Haven't heard Beethoven's symphonies in weeks.


We need to remember that however great HvK and Furty were their days are over. It's time for another generation. Never heard Petrako so I can't judge how good he is.


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

DrMike said:


> Will someone help me out with why Jewish looks/heritage is something I should care about here?


You shouldn't. BTW, Thielemann reputation was seriously damaged after alleged antisemitic remark. Seem some people still care.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

DavidA said:


> We need to remember that however great HvK and Furty were their days are over. It's time for another generation. Never heard Petrako so I can't judge how good he is.


I know~ This current generation has so many competent conductors: Gergiev, Wit, Jansons, Thielemann, Barenboim, Boulez, Neeme/Paavo Jarvi, Previn, the only female which I've found to be a worthy conductor: Alsop, Gardiner, Mehta, Haitink, Muti, Chailly, Ashkenazy, Blomstedt, James Levine, Marriner, Minkowski, Rozhdestvensky, Skrowaczewski, Tilson Thomas.

Some which I found should be avoided: Dudamel, Petrenkos, de Waart, Dohnanyi, Eschenbach, Ivan Fischer.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Lord Lance said:


> I have heard a few of Petreko's performances and they all seems unremarkable. Even Rattle was better. His discography is severely limited and his youthful age has yet to show of his versatility and mastery of works.


43 isn't really that young for a conductor. Most conductors start their profession in their early to mid twenties; K. Petrenko's debut was in 1995, and he conducted many more concerts soon after.

Consider Karajan, he was in his 40s when appointed chief conductor by the same orchestra. He was finishg off a very successful period of time with the Philharmonia Orchestra. He had been making many recordings just because of the kind of musician and kind of person he was. He loved technology, he loved the recoridng studio, however Petrenko doesn't seem to be so much of a fan of recording or the media and he is also such a _humble_ person as opposed to Karajan. Petrenko has had a lot of success recently with one of the most famous opera companies in the world and also the Bayreuth festival, and he's guest conducted with many famous orchestras. He does tend to avoid the limelight a little and the media attention, which probably gives the impression that he is 'inexperienced,' however I am sure that the Berliner Philharmoniker intends to allow the relationship between them and him to grow potentially over a long period of time.

Also, an orchestra would be stupid to choose their conductors based on discography or even simply how they perform. It's the relationship between them in the rehearsals that make an orchestra want to work with the conductor again. Obviously Berliner Philharmoniker loved working with him. As to Petrenko being 'unremarkable,' well that's the perspective of a listener who isn't all that keen on his interpretation and not the opinion of orchestra members during a rehearsal, which is what truly counts in choosing a chief conductor.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Lord Lance said:


> I know~ This current generation has so many competent conductors: Gergiev, *Wit*, *Jansons*, Thielemann, *Barenboim*, *Boulez*, *Neeme*/Paavo *Jarvi*, *Previn*, the only female which I've found to be a worthy conductor: Alsop, *Gardiner*, *Mehta*, *Haitink*, *Muti*, Chailly, *Ashkenazy*, *Blomstedt*, *James Levine*, *Marriner*, Minkowski, *Rozhdestvensky*, *Skrowaczewski*, *Tilson Thomas* (almost).


More then 3/4 of Your list have one foot in the grave anyway (70+), several of them have had sever health problems. Many of them are very competent, but not very "current".. I would not think that an institution that aspire to the future will hire someone whom You can not rely on living in three years!

An FWIW if my maths is correct Petrenko will be more or less the same age as Karajan was when he was appointed Kapellmeister of the Philharmonic in 1955! (So there's time to grow!)

/ptr


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

< Sidebar begin >
Talking about conducting x age, let`s remember of the great (my opinion, as usual) of 20th century:
Ferenc Fricsay lived "only" 49 years. 
A quite intelligent conductor, ahead of his time.
< Sidebar end >
Back to the topic:
I think, as a music lover and as a former Berlin habitant, that this choice sends a message. The orchestra doesn't want a conductor that likes to be in the spotlight. Petrenko doesn't like interviews and has recorded almost nothing compared to the superstar conductors that were also aiming the post.
The choice is a combination of technic, habits and charisma.
As the fellow TC member CyrilWashbrook showed me, for those that understand german, you can feel a bit about Petrenko here.
Note that I never saw a musician using "du"in a conversation with a conductor. For those that are into german habits, this shows a lot about his character.
As usual, my two cents only... 
https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/interview/3566-5


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## DonAlfonso (Oct 4, 2014)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> 43 isn't really that young for a conductor. Most conductors start their profession in their early to mid twenties; K. Petrenko's first full time conducting job was in Berlin in 1995.


I agree, think of Mehta - Music Director of the Montreal Symphony at 24; Los Angeles Philharmonic at 26 and New York Philharmonic at 42


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Perhaps, I am prejudiced against this young talent without giving him a real go. Good point by COAG and ptr - perhaps the uncertainty of my choices' living for another day is somewhat of a barrier to their selection. I shall concede being faulty with my ridicule of Petrenko. I shall watch and listen to his Berliner Philharmoniker concerts to see if he is any good.

Well played, everyone; using the Karajan card. Damn the truth burns!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Petrenko was actually on my short list of whom I'd like to see get the post. Very happy for him and looking forward to hearing what he and the Berlin Philharmonic can do.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Lord Lance said:


> I know~ This current generation has so many competent conductors: Gergiev, Wit, Jansons, Thielemann, Barenboim, Boulez, Neeme/Paavo Jarvi, Previn, the only female which I've found to be a worthy conductor: Alsop, Gardiner, Mehta, Haitink, Muti, Chailly, Ashkenazy, Blomstedt, James Levine, Marriner, Minkowski, Rozhdestvensky, Skrowaczewski, Tilson Thomas.
> 
> Some which I found should be avoided: Dudamel, Petrenkos, de Waart, *Dohnanyi, *Eschenbach, *Ivan Fischer*.


I have a superb Bruckner 5th under Dohnanyi. And the simply tremendous DVD of Cosi under Fischer. Glad I didn't take your advice!


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I have a superb Bruckner 5th under Dohnanyi. And the simply tremendous DVD of Cosi under Fischer. Glad I didn't take your advice!


And to that list, I would also highly recommend the Mahler 6th conducted by Eschenbach, which is incredible.

On the whole front, I suppose there are numerous ways that they could go about picking a conductor for this position. You can go with flash, with a well-known name. Someone tried and true. But sometimes you just want to breath new life in. The BPO is still one of those tried and true, well-respected orchestras - one of the giants. But in this age where recording has become so much easier, a lot of smaller groups are also strutting their stuff, and the BPO doesn't have quite as large a share of the recording market as they once had. Perhaps they were looking for youth and vigor (again, relatively speaking), in addition to someone who seemed to get on well with the performers.

I think of it in terms of sports - there are numerous teams that have those star players that make them stand out, but the better overall teams are the ones where they all work well together, and build on each others' strengths, rather than hanging all their hopes on one big-name showboat.


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

In any case, we should give some credit to the musicians, they've chosen him over all the other alternatives, so he must be doing something right. In any case I'm really curious about the future of the BPO.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I have a superb Bruckner 5th under Dohnanyi. And the simply tremendous DVD of Cosi under Fischer. Glad I didn't take your advice!


Hehe. Even the most terrible conductors have a few good ones. My list was of course subjective - since no objective exists. I disliked Petrenko (_Subjective view_). But, hey, maybe his tenure in Berliner Philharmoniker be a bright spot for the orchestra. A conductor who shuns publicity and rarely records. Who is humble and was chosen by the musician - meaning they get along with him, are compatible with him. He doesn't have any other chief conducting post which would result in him having to split his time with each orchestra, not to forget his performances as guest conductor with other orchestras. He is in his forties, perhaps from now he'll get only better conducting and all the while maintain youthful energy.

Hey, I think I can see the bigger picture now!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I haven't heard Petrenko conduct yet so I can't pass judgment on him . But I've heard a lot of highly favorable reports about him both from orchestral musicians and prominent critics , and very much want to hear his performances . 
Remember - the members of the BPO choose their top bananas , so it's highly unlikely that the new guy is an incompetent, talentless jerk who has made an artificial career created by slick publicity and 
cynical management .


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Kirill Petrenko has a certain resemblance to the cult horror movie actor Robert Englund , of the Friday the 13th movies . The French conductor Stephane Deneve has a curious resenmlance to Weird Al Jankovic !


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2015)

superhorn said:


> Kirill Petrenko has a certain resemblance to the cult horror movie actor Robert Englund , of the Friday the 13th movies . The French conductor Stephane Deneve has a curious resenmlance to Weird Al Jankovic !


You are mixing up your horror movies - Robert Englund portrayed Freddy Krueger from the Nightmare on Elm Street film franchise.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Oops. My mistake .


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## arbiter elegantiarum (Jul 5, 2015)

Let's face it: Berliner Philharmoniker is not superior to many other orchestras any more. And Petrenko won't be worse than Abbado and Rattle, I believe.


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