# Mozart: Requiem



## EricIsAPolarBear

Really though, who do you rate as having recorded the best of this magnificent piece? I apologize if this has been previously posted, but had no luck searching. there is money on the line here people, what's the score?


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## StlukesguildOhio

Well... I will always hold a soft spot for the Marriner recording... which was used in the film Amadeus... and was a true turning point in my admiration of Mozart and classical music:










Karajan's is a magnificent "old school" recording:










For a solid HIP recording I take Herreweghe...










or John Eliot Gardiner...










Seriously, I don't think any one or two of the available recordings stands out as the clear and obvious choice as it does on a number of other works. Given but a single choice... I'd probably go with the Marriner... but that's purely a personal preference.

:tiphat:


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## EricIsAPolarBear

i also have a soft spot for AoSM thanks for your extensive reply friend!


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## Chi_townPhilly

EricIsAPolarBear said:


> i also have a soft spot for AoSM thanks for your extensive reply friend!


Nice topic- and welcome back. It's been a while!

(You have a pretty memorable user-name.)


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## HarpsichordConcerto

The single most important point to bear in mind with regards to this great work is the version performed/recorded before your ears. We all know Mozart didn't complete it and Franz X. Sussmayr (1766-1803) cobbled it together as his version of the completed work, a version that Mozart would not have necessarily endorsed. Indeed, it seems Sussmayr was *not* the first composer approached by Constanze Mozart (Mozart's wife) as the ideal candidate to complete the work.

With that in mind, almost any version completed even by leading scholars today could be considered as viable sources/alternatives of this great work. In addition to the standard Sussmayr version (the most popular version, as a matter of historical accident), I also have versions completed by Mozart musicologists Richard F. Maunder and Robert Levin. Most of these base their completions on Mozart late choral works, including late operas as ideal models.


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## EricIsAPolarBear

Thank you very much for your kind greetings Chi, i have been away too long and wish to immerse myself in discussion again. In the interim I have discovered a number of composers (new to me) that inspire me. I look forward to gaining a greater understanding of classical music and of course the positive and encouraging banter on this forum.

Thanks as well for the extensive scholarship that you are able to provide for me HC, I know very little about this work except that I find my walks in Budapest (where I currently reside) are great at night listening to this magnificent piece. I have purchased the Karajan + Weiner recording, but am not so satisfied with it. I lost my AoSM + Sir Neville Marriner and I think I will buy it again. It may just be that my familiarity with that recording is so solid that the differences are so striking.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does HIP mean?


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## StlukesguildOhio

HIP= Historically Informed Performance (sometimes known as Period Performance or Authentic Period Performance). This denotes performances employing proper period instruments and performance style according to what we know of the history of the music. In other words, and HIP of Mozart would not utilize the large Romantic era orchestra or a Modern grand piano, but rather the piano-forte. The performance style would also follow what we know of performances of that era as opposed to playing Mozart as if he were Beethoven or Mahler.

You tube has an entire performance of the Requiem by Mark Minkowski, a leading HIP practitioner (his recording of the last two symphonies is incredibly muscular), available:






In the HIP manner, I most recommend John Eliot Gardiner's recording.


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## scytheavatar

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref...eywords=mozart+requiem&ie=UTF8&qid=1300169396

I recommend this, Solti usually is unbeatable when it comes to any religious choral works.


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## EricIsAPolarBear

scytheavatar said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref...eywords=mozart+requiem&ie=UTF8&qid=1300169396
> 
> I recommend this, Solti usually is unbeatable when it comes to any religious choral works.


Could you please recommend another recording by Solti. Also, by last two symphonies are you referring to 40 and 41 by Mozart?

I have acquisition syndrome for these kinds of pieces at the moment. Since my hiatus on this website, I have been exploring earlier works (Bach, Scarlatti etc.) but still prefer my Romantics. Best wishes, and thanks so much for your replies everybody. It makes me wonder why I couldn't find time to participate in the last couple years! I hope to offer my own insights and discoveries, of course contextually specific to my personal taste, but isn't that the point?


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## StlukesguildOhio

I recommend this, Solti usually is unbeatable when it comes to any religious choral works.

As in...?


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## StlukesguildOhio

For religious choral works I most certainly wouldn't think of Solti first... not usually. I will offer a few suggestions:










J.S. Bach is the unrivaled master of sacred choral music. Keep an eye out for this set through Amazon.com's secondary dealers. The price cannot be beat for 22 discs including the _St. Matthew Passion_, the _Saint John Passion_, the _Magnificat_, the_ Mass in B-minor_, the _Christmas Oratorio_, and 11 discs of cantatas. These recordings are all among the critic's first choices for any of the works included and in some cases, just a single work (The _St. Matthew Passion_) may be nearly as costly as the entire set.



















While your major interest leans toward the Romantic era, no one with a love of choral music should go without Handel's _Messiah_. I highly recommend either of these recordings. The latter one on Naxos is incredibly inexpensive and very, very good... although it presents a version of the _Messiah_ sans female singers.

Before leaving the classical era of Mozart you should really listen to Haydn's masterpiece, Die Schöpfung (The Creation), which I would argue is equal or greater than any of Mozart's choral compositions. Either of these two recordings are to be recommended, both Gardiner and Christies being masters in the genre:



















Of course I also love the "old school" recording by Karajan with the unbeatable singers Wunderlich, Fischer-Dieskau, and Gundula Janowitz

Since this started with Mozart... we can't forget the Mozart's Great Mass in C-minor:










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## StlukesguildOhio

Onto the choral works of the Romantic era... let's start with Beethoven:



















Schubert:




























Rossini:










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## StlukesguildOhio

Berlioz _Te Deum_ and _Requiem_:










Brahms' great German Requiem:




























Gardiner's is the most muscular and performed in a Historically Informed manner, but both Lehmann's and Klemperer's "old school" recordings are magnificent.

And then there's Verdi:










In this case I agree that Solti's is the one to beat.

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## StlukesguildOhio

Mendelssohn's _Elijah_:










Anton Bruckner:



















And surely Faure's beautiful Requiem is equal to Mozart's and Brahms':



















Charles Dutoit's recording is as much a classic for Faure as Neville Mariner's is for Mozart's Requiem... but the Harry Christophers are a recent marvelous addition.

Dvorak:










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## StlukesguildOhio

Rachmaninoff:



















Grechaninov:










Massenet:










I'll also offer some possibilities moving into the 20th century... yet focusing upon those works that maintain a traditional tonality:

Poulenc:










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## StlukesguildOhio

Edward Elgar:










Benjamen Britten was one of the greatest composers of the 20th century (one often sadly underrated) and one of the greatest composers for the human voice, including opera, songs, and a wealth of gorgeous choral music:




























The War Requiem is undoubtedly the most stridently Modernist of the works here... but it is also incredibly powerful.

Herbert Howells was another of the great British composers of choral music:



















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## StlukesguildOhio

Frank Martin was a talented devotee of Bach whose marvelous oratorio, _Golgotha_, was only recently recorded. It is an impressive and moving work:










Among the so-called "Holy Minimalists" I would surely recommend you look into Gorecki's mournful Symphony of Songs...










...as well as works by Arvo Part, Peteris Vasks, John Rutter, John Tavener, and Morten Lauridsen:





































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## StlukesguildOhio

I would also recommend you be willing to go back a bit beyond Bach... and give a listen to at least Monteverdi's Vespers:










I'd also recommend this exquisite disc of sacred songs:










AS a choral music fanatic, I can recommend many others... including Modern works by David Lang, Tarik O'Regan, James McMillan, and others... but I leave it at this for now.

:tiphat:


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## tdc

Woah, thats a lot of recs there... but very good recommendations at that Stlukes this is a thread I am going to continually check back on.


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## Toccata

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> We all know Mozart didn't complete it and Franz X. Sussmayr (1766-1803) cobbled it together as his version of the completed work, a version that Mozart would not have necessarily endorsed. Indeed, it seems Sussmayr was *not* the first composer approached by Constanze Mozart (Mozart's wife) as the ideal candidate to complete the work.


I believe that Sussmayer was the first composer to whom Constanze turned to complete the Requiem, but she was unable to contact him and she then turned to Joseph Eibler. The latter undertook to complete the work but was unable to do so. Eventually Constanze finally made contact with Sussmayr who completed the Requiem, partly using various notes that WAM left behind although the extent to which these were actually used is uncertain.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Toccata said:


> I believe that Sussmayer was the first composer to whom Constanze turned to complete the Requiem, but she was unable to contact him and she then turned to Joseph Eibler. The latter undertook to complete the work but was unable to do so. Eventually Constanze finally made contact with Sussmayr who completed the Requiem, partly using various notes that WAM left behind although the extent to which these were actually used is uncertain.


Interesting. The notes/papers/chapters I have read suggested what I wrote earlier. But regardless who Constanze may have had in mind, the point is most musicologists are of the view that Sussmayr's completion was rather mediocre. Indeed, one of my versions (ed. Richard F. Maunder, The Academy of Ancient Music/Hogwood) ignored Sussmayr's, unless it was based on extensive Mozartian sketches, as far as they could be determined.

Eybler was certainly a talented composer. Mozart himself wrote a testamont of him: _"I, the undersigned, attest herewith that I have found the bearer of this, Herr Joseph Eybler, to be a worthy pupil of his famous master Albrechtsberger, a well-grounded composer, equally skilled at chamber music and the church style, fully experienced in the art of the song, also an accomplished organ and clavier player; in short a young musician such, one can only regret, as so seldom has his equal."_

Eybler composed a requiem in C minor. A recording of it by Bremen Steintor Barock (on period instruments) (CPO label), if you are interested. Not a bad piece.


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## Toccata

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Interesting. The notes/papers/chapters I have read suggested what I wrote earlier. But regardless who Constanze may have had in mind, the point is most musicologists are of the view that Sussmayr's completion was rather mediocre. [/IMG]


I got my information from Agnes Selby who as you probably know is a recognised authority on the life of Constanze Mozart. Agnes wrote an article on "_The Provenance of the Requiem_" on another music forum (CMG) in August 2008, in which all these matters are set out.

Mozart's Requiem is obviously one of the classical music greats. But it's no longer among my favourite sacred works. I got a little tired of it after many repeated listenings, rather like Faure's Requiem and Brahms German Requiem. These works are great for a while but then, after a while, boredom can sometimes set in, and you hear something better .... I'm not talking about Bach's Mass in B minor or Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, neither of which grabs my attention all that much despite their fame.

The truly outstanding sacred work which I haven't tired of is Schubert's Mass No 6 in E flat, D950. Whenever I feel the need for a "spiritual lift" this is an absolutely splendid work that I can't praise too highly. I have several versions of this work but the best for me is by Sawallish with Helen Donath, Bridgette Fassbaender. It's a marvellous work throughout, but the high spot for me is the "_Et Incarnatus Est_" in the Credo: pure Schubert at his blissful best.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Toccata said:


> _Schubert's Mass No 6 in E flat, D950: pure Schubert at his blissful best_.


I heard that! Also *Bruckner*'s *e-minor and f-minor Masses* have curious secrets to reveal.


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## EricIsAPolarBear

Wow, St.Luke'sGuild, I am so appreciative of this exhaustive list of works. They are really what i crave from sampling them. I wish i could afford to purchase them or even have the time to enjoy them. I'll do some "soul-searching" and get back to you on which works I consume!


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Toccata said:


> The truly outstanding sacred work which I haven't tired of is Schubert's Mass No 6 in E flat, D950. Whenever I feel the need for a "spiritual lift" this is an absolutely splendid work that I can't praise too highly. I have several versions of this work but the best for me is by Sawallish with Helen Donath, Bridgette Fassbaender. It's a marvellous work throughout, but the high spot for me is the "_Et Incarnatus Est_" in the Credo: pure Schubert at his blissful best.


That's a nice piece. I have only one version of it, along with Schubert's other masses in a 4CD set of his complete masses played by Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment/Bruno Weil (on period instruments). I suppose the HIP approach may have something to do with how "Classical" these pieces sounded to me.


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## Guest

For the Requiem, I recently acquired Bruno Weil's recording with Tafelmusik and the Tolzer Knabenchor. It is a combination of Sussmayr and a few others. The horns are less prominent than in the regular Sussmayr version. This is a HIP recording, and is very nice - not as heavy and ponderous as others, but you still get some hair-raising moments.

For more traditional recordings, I really like the Bohm recording on DG. Slower tempi, but still wonderful.


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## Vaneyes




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## 1648

Vaneyes said:


>


 Hah, I was going to suggest that one - albeit with a warning, the stereo sound is dreadfully thin and the orchestral playing rather rough-hewn; tough the chorus is lighter and more transparent than one usually hears in other "traditional" interpretations by the likes of Böhm and Karajan. But despite various technical shortcomings Scherchen - as usual - yields very personal, interesting insights. Harnoncourt's 2006 recording is also highly recommendable, far more expressive than any of the HIP recordings posted so far - at least in my opinion.

I can also vouch for the Lehmann recording of Brahms' German Requiem, his attention to the text/music relationship is unrivaled. Klemperer's '61 studio recording doesn't show him at his best, the '56 German broadcast production available on ica is superior - and one of the fastest performances ever captured, at 63 minutes it's barely one minute slower than Norrington's, my preferred HIP version. If you're looking for a modern "traditional" version, Kegel and Abbado would be fine choices.


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