# Shortage of dramatic voices. What do you think is the cause?



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Anyone reasonably acquainted with opera has probably asked "where have all the real dramatic voices gone?" What are some of your thoughts on the matter?


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

imo, it's primarily caused by the following factors 
1) a mindset of "you have to be older to sing dramatic rep". perhaps this is a little bit true of Wagner, in which one needs the stamina to make it through a 4 hour performance, but by and large, I think modern schools of singing veer too far in the opposite direction. Instead, we start out naturally big voices on rep which is inappropriate for them. Trying to squeeze large, powerful voices into light Mozart, art song, etc. 
2) many modern teachers are afraid of big sounds, so if such singers aren't squeezed into lighter rep, they tend to be pushed down into a lower range where they sound like they're "not straining". 
3) a lot of novice singers don't start out listening to opera before attending university, so they can come in with stereotypes like "tenor/soprano is bright, so I guess that's not me", "but I sang alto in choir! what do you mean?" or assuming that someone's voice is deeper than it is because opera sounds "dark" compared to contemporary singing styles with less developed voices. the increasingly liberal bent of "I just let them sing what they want" and "they need to discover their own path", can often enable misperceptions that can lead to vocal issues down the road. 
4) we live in an era where everyone is expected to look beautiful; however, there is a tendency for more dramatic voices to be accompanied by more robust builds, which unfortunately leaves them overlooked for roles for which they would otherwise be suited. granted, there are a number of exceptions here (plenty of singers like Franco Corelli, Jerome Hines, Shirley Verrett and Eula Beal had trim-to-average frames with powerful voices), but all the same, it is a contributing factor 
5) the corollary to point 1 is that singers often mistakenly believe that their voices will become more substantially dramatic with age. it's true that most voices will get a little bit bigger and darker with age as the voice fills out and high notes take a bit more effort, but singers like Regina Resnik and Christine Goerke who experience a substantial shift are the exception, not the rule. as a result, this often ends in more dramatic voices getting screwed over in the beginning of their career, and more lyric voices ruining their voices later if/when they decide to transition to work that isn't right for their voice.
6) under-development of the chest voice, leading to closed-throat singing, lack of squillo and unfulfilled vocal potential. I've talked at length about this on several other posts, so I won't go into detail here. 
7) not a lot of people even know what a real dramatic voice sounds like anymore. too often, what passes for "dark" is actually a kind of mushy, ingolata style of singing, and what passes for "bright" is more nasal, high larynx singing. in both cases, you are substantially limiting the kind of power necessary to sing dramatic roles, and not getting a clear idea of what your "real" voice actually sounds like.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Back in the day you would see great opera singers on Ed Sullivan, the Bell Telephone Hour and even Johnny Carson. Never today. Younger people in the general population would know what an opera singer sounded like. As a result of this one place you definitely see a huge decline in big voices is among African American singers. Remember when we had Price, Bumbry, Verrett, Norman as very prominent big voiced sopranos. They were among the top in the world. Now Larry Brownlee is the only prominent black singer I am aware of and he has a small voice. We had some wonderful black Verdi sopranos in Seattle 15 years ago, but their careers never made it to the Met. it surprised me. Back in the day if a famous black singer came to town there was a big consciousness of it in the black community and they would turn out in droves. That consciousness appears to be no longer there. It is so sad as all those I mentioned were among my very favorites in their day. A further tragedy is that even in popular music you rarely hear black artists sing with their often wonderful voices today, so complete has the rap culture hijacked the R and B scene. Beyonce is one of the few hold outs and she ain't no Ella or Sarah.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Please let us not forget the wonderful voice of Eric Owens.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Please let us not forget the wonderful voice of Eric Owens.


indeed, a fine voice, but in a way, it proves my point. in the 1960s, we wouldn't have called him a "bass-baritone", but just...a baritone. in that time period, ALL baritones had dark voices with powerful chest tones. those without them were assumed to be tenors and trained as such


----------



## kineno (Jan 24, 2015)

Though I haven’t heard her in person, I have the impression that Angel Blue can maybe be included with other large-voiced black sopranos.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

kineno said:


> Though I haven't heard her in person, I have the impression that Angel Blue can maybe be included with other large-voiced black sopranos.


She sure is beautiful. I am not that familiar with her singing, but I think she is a lyric soprano. People really like her a lot.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

kineno said:


> Though I haven't heard her in person, I have the impression that Angel Blue can maybe be included with other large-voiced black sopranos.


I have heard her in person and you are right!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Is Denyce Graves still around?

One of the best pop singers I've ever heard in my life was (is) Roberta Flack, who seemed to have been Classically trained (going strictly by her breath control). _The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face_ is forever a classic.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

For young people nowadays, singing means a microphone. Who needs to cultivate a big voice when the equipment takes care of that for you?


----------



## khalan (Jun 4, 2021)

Music taste and trends change like it does occur in opera too. Nowadays also weigh some other dynamics. Sometimes facing comparisons of past multiple representations of the same operas you have to re-invent and at times, alter a lot an opera to seem original and different also does not help out. Simply now some past lesser known opera being rediscovered since centuries does market also better, Simply because some people will find it as something new and fairly unknown. It's also hard to draw any comparisons with past performances as in some cases they do not exist if not as written in music history Books we can only have a faint idea of how such Operas were like, making it even more fascinating to discover something unknown rather than something you might have listened to more than a 1000 times in different versions.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Is Denyce Graves still around?
> 
> One of the best pop singers I've ever heard in my life was (is) Roberta Flack, who seemed to have been Classically trained (going strictly by her breath control). _The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face_ is forever a classic.


I love Denyce! She may be, but was much more in media in the past. She is 57. As recently as 3 years ago she was only appearing in Candide and a couple of recitals. You used to see her all the time. A great voice and so gorgeous. She is a mother now and may be limiting time away from home. She had her child in her early 50's with fertility treatment.
Roberta had such a silky voice and was mainly active 30 years ago before the decline in quality of pop music. I am such an old person re music.


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I'm sure there are plenty of dramatic voices out there, just a shortage of people who know how to use them. Chalk it up to technique.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of dramatic voices out there, just a shortage of people who know how to use them. Chalk it up to technique.


Genetically the potential should be greater now than ever with double the population BUT the problem is opera is much less in the popular mind, even popular songs are not " sung " like they used to be. At my church which sat about 500 people, I don't remember people using mics to sing solos. I am going to ask a friend. I have mentioned it before but I am convinced that the good church music programs in the mid 20th cent. helped to foster young operatic talent. EDIT: my friend couldn't remember us using mics in my church either. It was the most perfect acoustic theater I can remember. Lots of wood.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of dramatic voices out there, just a shortage of people who know how to use them. Chalk it up to technique.


exactly. because people today are afraid to teach real, open-throat singing


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Please let us not forget the wonderful voice of Eric Owens.


I heard Owens as Filipo a few years ago and it didn't strike me as a big voice. The Grand Inquisitor ate him alive, but Filipo is probably a bit low for him so perhaps that was the reason. Plus I was in the cheap seats lol

Here are a couple of articles I had saved about the lack of dramatic voices in opera going back a few years for anyone interested:

https://www.csmonitor.com/1983/0831/083100.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/arts/music/the-end-of-the-great-big-american-voice.html


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Posted in the wrong thread.


----------

