# A Question For The New Generation of Opera Fans



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

When you download music off the net in the operatic vein, do you favor contemporary artists or do you also seek out singers who were active before you came to opera but who are well reviewed? Are you familiar with singers such as Leonard Warren, Birgit Nilsson, Franco Corelli and further back to Ponselle and the like? Do you prefer to stick with the familiar?


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Well, I am not exactly a new generation of opera fans but going to when I started listening to opera back in early 1990's, I guess I was buying both contemporary singers as well as older sets but I would say that there were more older sets than contemporary sets. After all, if I want Aida, there were may be 2-3 sets with contemporary singers but a lot of older sets to choose from. I also think that for first exposure, I would want to get the set that would represent the ideal example of the operas. It would only make sense that if I want Wagner, I would go with Nilsson, Flagstad, Melchior, Vickers, Hotter, Furtwaengler, Karajan etc. 
If I want Verdi, Bergonzi, Corelli, Bjoerling, Milanov, Caballe, Tebaldi, Callas, Gobbi, Warren, Cossotto, Simionato etc etc.
After saying that, I almost always ended getting some contemporary singers as well since it is never enough to have just one or two sets of each opera. While I enjoy the older set, listening to record does not replace the experience of real live performance and it is nice to get recordings of singers that I actually have a chance to hear lived as a nice souvenir.
Of the contemporary singers (when I bought the CDs) that are my favourite recordings of that particular work probably includes Christie's set of Handel's Alcina, Cheryl Studer's Salome, Eva Marton's Elektra, Mackerras' Cosi fan tutti with Felicity Lott. Otherwise, the majority of my favourite recordings are with the older generation of singers.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm not 'new generation' but I did come late to opera. My route to opera was through discovering José Carreras & I started buying his CDs. 

They don't make many studio recordings of complete operas now so there's not much choice. I love the fact that there are so many DVDs with all the new singers. Makes a nice balance.


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## Zabirilog (Mar 10, 2013)

I think that I really am "new generation!" Saw Zauberflöte only in 2011... Now crazy in almost everything. And; I could say that I listen more for contemporary artists. But, the best ones are in the late 80's and early 90's...


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

I listen to only contemporary (20th century onwards) operas, so, for me, I choose contemporary artists.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

mostly contemporary but Siepi is my favourite male opera singer (and his 1954 DG my favourite DG) so I do listen to older recordings as well. One of my reasons for preferring contemporary is because I want to be able to go see them live.


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

I like much more the singers of the past. 
Sospiro is right, there are so few recordings of complete operas sung by contemporary singers that I really know little about them. 
Anyway, I think that nowadays no one can sing better Bel Canto than Pavarotti or Kraus, or sing a better Otello or Pagliacci than Domingo. Am I wrong?


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Interesting question! I think with most operas I've tried to get the most popular recordings. I know with Norma I started with Callas and Sutherland, and then with Ballo in Maschera I listened to everything I could get my hands on - but now having done my research on that almost all I ever listen to is Callas/Filippeschi or the live set with Leontyne Price, Robert Merrill, and Mignon Dunn. But I don't download music off the internet - it's really quite rare that I go to Youtube or any other online location to get music. I listened once to I seem to recall it was Simon Boccanegra in a very highly recommended set with Leonard Warren, and came away completely disappointed. Have kind of stayed away from Warren since then, although I'm certainly going to check out his Trovatore. And I seem to recall that on Nilsson's classic Turandot with Jussi Bjoerling, the tenor was kind of a weak link, in my opinion ... you know, Domingo isn't that technically accomplished a singer, I don't think, but he communicates so dang well that he's almost always my first choice, for a tenor.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

First of all, what do you consider "young"? There is much talk of whippersnappers and greybeards on here :lol: but I think people forget that there is a whole lot in between! 28-48 ish neither young nor old.

I am 30, I'd consider myself in that mid group


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Sonata said:


> First of all, what do you consider "young"? There is much talk of whippersnappers and greybeards on here :lol: but I think people forget that there is a whole lot in between! 28-48 ish neither young nor old.
> 
> I am 30, I'd consider myself in that mid group


The "new generation" of opera fans refers to everyone who has come to love opera in the last five years. Typically these are people in their fifties.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

30 is very young. When I go to Seattle Opera gray heads predominate. Actually anyone who came to opera after 2000 applies. I think most of the very best singers are in the past but I have a different perspective from people who may have come to opera of late. Mind you, Jonas Kaufmann can sing for me anytime


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Oh, OK I would be in the "new generation" then. I first became interested in opera at 28 (in 2010), while I was on maternity leave with my son.

I'm fairly evenly divided, looking at my collection. I go by whatever is highly recommended here, by and large and the samples I listen to. Amazon to a lesser degree. I have a mix of Callas (in Puccini roles), some Fleming, Mirella Freni, and Joan Sutherland. Those are names that pop up more frequently in my collection. I realize that other than highlights I cannot name too many of male singers, strange that. 

In general, I am drawn more to the singing voices in terms of pure music, rather than how well they sing-act per se. I am sure more patterns in my collection will emerge as I continue to listen. Planning to attend a live opera in 2014 and that may change everything!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sonata said:


> Oh, OK I would be in the "new generation" then. I first became interested in opera at 28 (in 2010), while I was on maternity leave with my son.
> 
> I'm fairly evenly divided, looking at my collection. I go by whatever is highly recommended here, by and large and the samples I listen to. Amazon to a lesser degree. I have a mix of Callas (in Puccini roles), some Fleming, Mirella Freni, and Joan Sutherland. Those are names that pop up more frequently in my collection. I realize that other than highlights I cannot name too many of male singers, strange that.
> 
> In general, I am drawn more to the singing voices in terms of pure music, rather than how well they sing-act per se. I am sure more patterns in my collection will emerge as I continue to listen. Planning to attend a live opera in 2014 and that may change everything!


 Marvelous. For me the big difference with live voices is hearing how they project in the house. Most sound much more thrilling. Many of my very favorites though I never heard live. Alas! I love the Met HD but miss the live sound. Glad you found opera and I think you have good taste.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> 30 is very young. When I go to Seattle Opera gray heads predominate. Actually anyone who came to opera after 2000 applies. I think most of the very best singers are in the past but I have a different perspective from people who may have come to opera of late. Mind you, Jonas Kaufmann can sing for me anytime


I got into opera while I was an undergraduate. Thanks to liberal art education, while I was a science major, through common core classes in music, I got interested in classical music and opera in particular. Then I took an intro course to opera for one of my elective and that was the beginning of one of my passion. At the time, I was still able to catch some of the greats close to the end of their career such as Freni, Horne, von Stade, Tomowa-Sintow, catching some right at the begining of their career: Fleming, Alagna, Gheorghiu, Voigt, Dessay, and managed to hear a few who were already officially retired like Caballe, Leontyne Price, de los Angeles. I think it is true that we don't have as many great Verdi or Wagner as in the past, the last 10-20 years, we have so many great lyric mezzo sopranos who are actively singing, more so than any given time that I could think of in the last 50-80 years, Bartoli, di Donato, Susan Graham, Jennifer Larmore, Susanne Mentzer, Kasarova and the list goes on and on (and not to forget Lorraine Hunt-Lieberson who unfortunately left us way too soon).


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

suteetat said:


> I think it is true that we don't have as many great Verdi or Wagner as in the past


must be the baroque and early belcanto craze (not that I mind, on the contrary).


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Mozart and Handel singers abound these days and many are superb. David Daniels is amazing! Big voices of the class of Milanov, Price, Nilsson and Flagstad, at least in the soprano repertiore have not really come along since their heyday in the Wagner and Verdi repertoire. Stephanie Blythe when I heard her a number of years ago was a mezzo in their class, but I hear rumors of vocal crisis problems there.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Mozart and Handel singers abound these days and many are superb. David Daniels is amazing! Big voices of the class of Milanov, Price, Nilsson and Flagstad, at least in the soprano repertiore have not really come along since their heyday in the Wagner and Verdi repertoire. Stephanie Blythe when I heard her a number of years ago was a mezzo in their class, but I hear rumors of vocal crisis problems there.


It is quite difficut to gauge the size of the voice from recording. Some singers, you can get a very good idea about how big the voice is from recording like Marton, Voigt, Behrens. Some voices are much more difficult to capture and you can only get a glimpse of their true size. I was a lot more impressed with Nina Stemme when I heard her Isolde live than her recording. Alexandra Marc was another one who blew me away when she sang Chrysothemis but her recording really was not all that exciting. That was the first time I understood what being pin to the seat by a wall of voice was. Too bad her voice was not very reliable and tended to have a lot of up and down. Leontyne Price was impressive on her recordings but I was not prepare for how big or powerful her voice really was when I heard her, I think she was 69 or 70. I could not imagine what Nilsson or Flagstad sound would be like live!
Delora Zaijick's voice is huge and she routinely outsang all the sopranos in Aida, Don Carlo, Trovatore although on recordings, her voice did not sound all that big. I remembered people used to say that her voice really is not considered all that big in comparison to Simionato, Barbieri or Cossotto (people also used to say that Cossotto voice was barely big enough for Verdi and her voice was nowhere nearly as big as Simionato, Barbieri) so I don't know how reliable that is but if Zaijick voice is not big or loud enough, I think I would go deaf hearing all those great mezzos from earlier time.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Marvelous. For me the big difference with live voices is hearing how they project in the house. Most sound much more thrilling. Many of my very favorites though I never heard live. Alas! I love the Met HD but miss the live sound. Glad you found opera and I think you have good taste.


Thank you


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I found this amusing/perspective rendering post in *another* thread:



schigolch said:


> _It's sad to look at the younger people going to the opera, they listen to Caruso, De Luca, Martinelli, Ponselle... and then think this is a time of great singers, when they have never known the true Golden Age of opera in New York._
> 
> James G. Huneker, New York Times, 1920.


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## Bardamu (Dec 12, 2011)

Sonata said:


> First of all, what do you consider "young"? There is much talk of whippersnappers and greybeards on here :lol: but I think people forget that there is a whole lot in between! 28-48 ish neither young nor old.
> 
> I am 30, I'd consider myself in that mid group


That's what I was going to ask 

I'm 28 and listening to Opera just the last tow years or so.

If I know nothing about the recordings about a specific Opera I tend to try first "older" singers (let's say those active at least 30 or more years ago) just because their fame are already established.
But I have no problem with contemporary singers (it all come down to my own ignorance).

For example I still regard the Catania '97 (Martinucci/Mazzola/Pasquetto) recording of Iris as the best with the Amsterdam '63 (Ottolini/Olivero/Capecchi)



Sonata said:


> *In general, I am drawn more to the singing voices in terms of pure music, rather than how well they sing-act per se.* I am sure more patterns in my collection will emerge as I continue to listen. Planning to attend a live opera in 2014 and that may change everything!


Me too!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

A difficult question. I generally choose recordings depending on reviews, recording technology, orchestral and dynamic treatment, but most especially, sound quality!

I have frequently found myself turning to relatively little known artists if I think the recording is the best one. I generally don't choose recordings primarily by the artist, however, any recording by Gardiner or Christie is an almost automatic choice. They usually have excellent artists in their entourage.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Novelette said:


> A difficult question. I generally choose recordings depending on reviews, recording technology, orchestral and dynamic treatment, but most especially, sound quality!
> 
> I have frequently found myself turning to relatively little known artists if I think the recording is the best one. I generally don't choose recordings primarily by the artist, however, any recording by Gardiner or Christie is an almost automatic choice. They usually have excellent artists in their entourage.


And for me, for Verdi especially, I like Lamberto Gardelli. I discovered Gardelli quite by accident at the start of my opera journey & I didn't know the singers. His recordings of the early Verdi are my favourites.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> do you favor contemporary artists or do you also seek out singers who were active before you came to opera but who are well reviewed?


- an incorrectly set poll, because when downloading a blu-ray or dts-dvd you don't get much of your Nilsson's and Corelli's.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> - an incorrectly set poll, because when downloading a blu-ray or dts-dvd you don't get much of your Nilsson's and Corelli's.


So those people who like the older generations of singers are therefore more likely to only listen on CD or even LP. I suspect the OP does just that.

A more polite way to make your point would have been to simply state that you watch DVDs and therefore favour contemporary singers. As do I.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

sharik said:


> - an incorrectly set poll, because when downloading a blu-ray or dts-dvd you don't get much of your Nilsson's and Corelli's.


I rarely watch opera at home. I listen in the car so it never occurred to me.I must be old


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> A more polite way to make your point would have been to simply state that you watch DVDs and therefore favour contemporary singers


was unable to make it an other way because in fact i'm not in favor of today's singers at all, and i deeply regret that the era of HD video & audio has arrived a hundred years too late - what a tragedy.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sharik said:


> wi deeply regret that the era of HD video & audio has arrived a hundred years too late - what a tragedy.


Or 270 years. What fun it would be to have Handel's original productions on DVD!


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Or 270 years. What fun it would be to have Handel's original productions on DVD!


ah, actually, no because at the moment it was too early that classical music came to its artistic heights to become one of the absolute values for mankind as it has in the 20th century, for example.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you there. Handel's music is of the highest quality. Your view seems to be the classic 19th century idea of progress. My view is the "every era has its geniuses who we can appreciate on their own terms". And I appreciate Handel immensely.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you there. Handel's music is of the highest quality. Your view seems to be the classic 19th century idea of progress. My view is the "every era has its geniuses who we can appreciate on their own terms". And I appreciate Handel immensely.[/Q
> Handel has some of the most emotionally moving and beautiful music in opera. A good director is needed to bring the action alive for today's audiences, but you can't find more heart wrenching music in opera than Caro Spoza ( sp?) from Rinaldo.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> My view is the "every era has its geniuses who we can appreciate on their own terms". And I appreciate Handel immensely.


totally in agreement about Handel's music (specifically operatic output) but - and I might be so off the mark here it's not funny - I have a feeling (based on the unprecedented ability of being aware of and directly learn from older generations via recordings) that we've got, right now, the best Baroque singers ever, so the original productions might not have been up to this level. It would have still been fun to see them  in fact, in the other thread about which singers you'd most like to see I wanted to say the singers who've created all these great roles from Monteverdi's time on.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

deggial said:


> totally in agreement about Handel's music (specifically operatic output) but - and I might be so off the mark here it's not funny - I have a feeling (based on the unprecedented ability of being aware of and directly learn from older generations via recordings) that we've got, right now, the best Baroque singers ever, so the original productions might not have been up to this level. It would have still been fun to see them  in fact, in the other thread about which singers you'd most like to see I wanted to say the singers who've created all these great roles from Monteverdi's time on.


I think you could be right IMHO. Plus we have David Daniels


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

deggial said:


> totally in agreement about Handel's music (specifically operatic output) but - and I might be so off the mark here it's not funny - I have a feeling (based on the unprecedented ability of being aware of and directly learn from older generations via recordings) that we've got, right now, the best Baroque singers ever, so the original productions might not have been up to this level. It would have still been fun to see them  in fact, in the other thread about which singers you'd most like to see I wanted to say the singers who've created all these great roles from Monteverdi's time on.


I think the productions would have been different - lots of stage effects and "magic" (think Rinaldo) but perhaps minimal acting.

But the singing, OMG. Apart from the extraordinary effect of their voice, castrati went through extremely rigorous and exhaustive training to develop their singing ability. Here is a typical day for boys at a Neapolitan conservatory:

Morning

One hour singing passages of difficult execution
One hour studying letters [including how words should be sung for understanding]
One hour singing exercises in front of the mirror...to guard against ugly grimaces

Afternoon

One-half hour theory
One-half hour improvisation
One hour studying counterpoint
One hour studying letters

As a result some of these castrati developed amazing technique (helped by their over-developed chest cavities). Farinelli, for example, famously could sing for one minute on one breath.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> One hour singing exercises in front of the mirror...to guard against ugly grimaces


singers nowadays might want to pay attention to this one 

the regimen sounds pretty gruesome. What about a typical day for a contemporary singer?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

deggial said:


> singers nowadays might want to pay attention to this one


Quite. Someone give Vesselina and Ceci a mirror please



> the regimen sounds pretty gruesome. What about a typical day for a contemporary singer?


I suspect most contemporary singers (except those who started in cathedral choirs, like Simon Keenlyside) wouldn't have trained so rigorously from such an early age. And nowadays even those in cathedral choirs would be expected to spend a good part of their learning time on non-musical subjects.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Caballe once said her teacher had her ONLY work on breathing ( like yogic breathing) for a very long period, say close to a year as i recall, before she was even allowed to sing!!!!!


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Quite. Someone give Vesselina and Ceci a mirror please
> And nowadays even those in cathedral choirs would be expected to spend a good part of their learning time on non-musical subjects.


This is a good thing though. Those castratoes were subjected to surgery at a very young age and underwent rigorous training 
all their early life long before they even knew if they had any chance of making it. Nobody ever talked about those that did not really had the talent or voice who nevertheless were put through the process only to be discarded. Whatever happened to them?

It is mind boggling to think that Ponselle went from Vaudville to the Met and sang with Caruso at the age of 20 or Varnay started singing all the heavy Wagner roles at 20 as well. A few rare exceptional voice may survive this but probably this is the right way for most people.

I don't know how important it is to start formal training at such early age. Is it better until the voice break and settle in its natural place before training or start before puberty. I think there are excellent singers who came out from both camps though.
Some were even trained musician who switched over to voice and still have a pretty good career such as Amelita Galli Curci.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Your view seems to be the classic 19th century idea of progress


not quite so, mine is rather a 20th century standpoint, where baroque comes across as some kind of exotic, a pop music of the time.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

suteetat said:


> This is a good thing though. Those castratoes were subjected to surgery at a very young age and underwent rigorous training
> all their early life long before they even knew if they had any chance of making it. Nobody ever talked about those that did not really had the talent or voice who nevertheless were put through the process only to be discarded. Whatever happened to them?


You are quite right, for every Farinelli there were hundreds who did not make the grade. They eked out an existence in church choirs. And even the most admired were also sneered at because of their operation.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

suteetat said:


> This is a good thing though. Those castratoes were subjected to surgery at a very young age and underwent rigorous training
> all their early life long before they even knew if they had any chance of making it. Nobody ever talked about those that did not really had the talent or voice who nevertheless were put through the process only to be discarded. Whatever happened to them?
> 
> It is mind boggling to think that Ponselle went from Vaudville to the Met and sang with Caruso at the age of 20 or Varnay started singing all the heavy Wagner roles at 20 as well. A few rare exceptional voice may survive this but probably this is the right way for most people.
> ...


Kathleen Ferrier, the British mezzo/ contralto with the rich chocolate timbre was a pianist who didn't start her vocal career until her 20's. Initally she had a limited range but expanded it by continued training up to high A before her death by cancer.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

Younger generation here (upper 20's) and it feels very odd saying that :lol:. I try to follow both but historic artists or artists now retired have a larger presence in my collection.

Montserrat Caballe was the singer who guided me into opera via her work with Freddie Mercury on the Barcelona album. As I have explored more, I have become increasingly a fan of Flagstad, Scwarzkopff, Popp, Callas, Edelmann and also more (relatively) recently inactive singers including Brigitte Fassbaender and Thomas Quasthoff. There are others and I am still finding others, such as Victoria De Los Angeles Whom I heard for the first time recently by accident, leading me to explore more on YouTube.

I find that when I am looking into new operas I look to older recordings. For example, I am going to explore Mozart's Operas so I have picked up the reissue box set containing Don Giovanni, Figaro, Zaubeflote and Cosi Van Tutte. Partly out of recognition of some of the singers, partly out of experience of other recordings by the combination of conductor and orchestra and through recommendations.

However, I do enjoy modern singers mainly thanks to recent productions on DVD or Blu Ray which inspire me to explore further. In particular, I have grown to really like for example; Bryn Terfel, Joyce Dedonato, Anne Sofie Von Otter, Diana Damrau and Renee Fleming.

The biggest difference I feel is how times have changed. How art is perceived, presented and taught. It is a very different world, better in some ways and not so much in others. This is why I try not to compare historical and contemporary singers - though I am not always successful.

(sorry for any typos by the way, using a touchscreen keyboard... poorly:lol


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I look for performances on CD that received the best reviews, but with the proviso that I want good/decent sound as well (so typically 1960 or later with a few exceptions).


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

AClockworkOrange said:


> Younger generation here (upper 20's) and it feels very odd saying that :lol:. I try to follow both but historic artists or artists now retired have a larger presence in my collection.
> 
> Montserrat Caballe was the singer who guided me into opera via her work with Freddie Mercury on the Barcelona album. As I have explored more, I have become increasingly a fan of Flagstad, Scwarzkopff, Popp, Callas, Edelmann and also more (relatively) recently inactive singers including Brigitte Fassbaender and Thomas Quasthoff. There are others and I am still finding others, such as Victoria De Los Angeles Whom I heard for the first time recently by accident, leading me to explore more on YouTube.
> 
> ...


 Very nice! Could never get into de los Angeles, but she has a huge following. I LOVE both Fleming and Damrau, the later who I was introduced to in a Rossini HDTV offering from the Met and found both a fabulous singer, lusciously beautiful and a very, very good actress. Have you heard Ewa Podles yet! She is a rare true contralto who could hold her own with Golden Age singers and has sung a vocal run in an opera from Eb6 to a baritonal C below middle C! Fleming is by far the most glamorous singer since Callas with the possible exception of the bitch with the voice of an angel, Kathleen Battle.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> I look for performances on CD that received the best reviews, but with the proviso that I want good/decent sound as well (so typically 1960 or later with a few exceptions).


 Do you ever listen to MetOpera on Sirius/XM. I ask because the have an AMAZING sound tech who has done sound restorations on performances from the 30's and 40's that sound almost current. and have a stereo sound. I know they offer some in their online store. Even the orchestras sound really good! I wish they offered this option with other singers that they offer with Caruso: they isolate the vocal part of his recordings and blend them with recordings of current performances by contemporary orchestras of the musical orchestration. Sounds amazing!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Nope, never listen to radio.


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

This thread is making me feel old......


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Very nice! Could never get into de los Angeles, but she has a huge following. I LOVE both Fleming and Damrau, the later who I was introduced to in a Rossini HDTV offering from the Met and found both a fabulous singer, lusciously beautiful and a very, very good actress. Have you heard Ewa Podles yet! She is a rare true contralto who could hold her own with Golden Age singers and has sung a vocal run in an opera from Eb6 to a baritonal C below middle C! Fleming is by far the most glamorous singer since Callas with the possible exception of the bitch with the voice of an angel, Kathleen Battle.


I love de Los Angeles very much especially for her Boheme with Bjoerling/Beecham and her 2nd Butterfly with Bjoerling. Unfortunately she was not really at her best as Antonia in Hoffman and Suor Angelica. She really showed how a lyric soprano could sing Butterfly and be just as dramatic as the heavier bigger voice while maintain illusion of a very young woman.

Glamour wise, I would throw in Te Kanawa, Schwarzkopf, and Della Casa as well. May be they are a bit more aristocratic than glamourous in the sense of a model or movie star, I suppose. There is a picture of Bidu Sayao in Traviata, I believe from the Met that just ooze with glamour.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Friend, I nominate you for the Fashion Police with Joan Rivers. You were right of course about all the others. Fleming sticks in my mind as I saw her from the front row here in Seattle in concert in a gown by Galianos ( sp?) and dripping in real diamonds and looking like her looks should be insured for a million bucks She has much in common with Kiri actually in her overall appearance actually.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Very nice! Could never get into de los Angeles, but she has a huge following. I LOVE both Fleming and Damrau, the later who I was introduced to in a Rossini HDTV offering from the Met and found both a fabulous singer, lusciously beautiful and a very, very good actress. Have you heard Ewa Podles yet! She is a rare true contralto who could hold her own with Golden Age singers and has sung a vocal run in an opera from Eb6 to a baritonal C below middle C! Fleming is by far the most glamorous singer since Callas with the possible exception of the bitch with the voice of an angel, Kathleen Battle.


No, I haven't heard of Ewan Podles yet and whilst I have heard of Kathleen Battle, I haven't heard her that I know of anyhow. To be honest I got into Opera and discover singers (and Classical music in general) in a rather haphazard way. Random, illogical but I know what like (or when something seizes my curiosity)and so far it has worked for me.

De Los Angeles came to my attention because I'm a fan of Sir Thomas Beecham and after hearing snatches of Carmen and La Boheme. Ironically, what really sealed my interest though as was the case of Flagstad and Quasthoff was hearing them on BBC's Desert Island Discs. The singing is paramount but getting a snapshot of the person also grabbed my interest.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I LOVE both Fleming and Damrau, the later who I was introduced to in a Rossini HDTV offering from the Met and found both a fabulous singer, lusciously beautiful and a very, very good actress. Have you heard Ewa Podles yet! She is a rare true contralto who could hold her own with Golden Age singers and has sung a vocal run in an opera from Eb6 to a baritonal C below middle C! Fleming is by far the most glamorous singer since Callas with the possible exception of the bitch with the voice of an angel, Kathleen Battle.


I like your quips on singers, although I don't know if KB's squeak is _angelic_  btw, I was just thinking today, there is a reason contraltos are rare in opera - they have flocked to blues. Pretty much all blues singers are contraltos.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Quite. Someone give Vesselina and Ceci a mirror please


haha, I didn't want to name names! however, I dig VK's amazing eyebrow control. That's what I focus on when she pulls a Japanese horror film mug.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

deggial said:


> haha, I didn't want to name names! however, I dig VK's amazing eyebrow control.


Haha, I must try that.



> That's what I focus on when she pulls a Japanese horror film mug.


It looks more like hamster in extremis to me.:lol:


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

guythegreg said:


> The "new generation" of opera fans refers to everyone who has come to love opera in the last five years. Typically these are people in their fifties.


Where on earth did you get that age group from ?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> It looks more like hamster in extremis to me.:lol:


oh dear, I'm never going to get that image out of my head! btw, it reminded me of yet another lovely mezzo in desperate need of a mirror: Vivica! and I think Magda Kozena makes some amusing faces, although likely not in the same league with Vesselina and Ceci


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Novelette said:


> A difficult question. I generally choose recordings depending on reviews, recording technology, orchestral and dynamic treatment, but most especially, sound quality!
> 
> I have frequently found myself turning to relatively little known artists if I think the recording is the best one. I generally don't choose recordings primarily by the artist, however, any recording by Gardiner or Christie is an almost automatic choice. They usually have excellent artists in their entourage.


How strange, I would have thought that opera of all genres would be chosen by the artists either appearing or on the recording.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I've been an opera fan since I was a teenager and got infected with the opera virus about 45 years ago !
I've heard an enormous variety of famous and no longer famous opera singers from primitive recordings of over a century ago to the newest opera stars . 
I've heard who knows how many complete opera recordings of who knows how many operas raning from Monteverdi to recent world premieres by contemporary composers . I've also heard so many recordings by legendary singers of the past such as Caruso, Lotte Lehmann, Bjorling, Beniamino Gigli, Fyodor Chaliapin, 
Flagstad, Melchior , Callas, Di Stefano, etc, 
As well as more and more DVD and youtube live performances , plus the various live performances at Lincoln Center , Pbs telecasts, radio performances, etc, not to mention playing live performances of operas by Verdi,Puccini,Bizet, Donizetti, Mascagni,and leoncavallo etc .
I know all the most famous operas backwards and forwards , and have also heard so many obscure operas by the like sof Albert Roussel, Alberic Magnard, Anton Rubinstein, Zdenek Fibich, Stanislaw Moniuszko, Daniel Francois Auber, Ambroise Thomas, Albert Lortzing., Heinrich Marschner, Eugene D'Albert, Antonio Calros Gomes, Walter Braunfels, Pavel Haas, Louis Spohr, Franz Schreker, Alexander von Zemlinsky, and others .
My advice is to listen to as wide variety of opera singers as possible, past and present . Try not to get fixated on one singer such as Callas, as so many opera fans have, and sneer at others .
No singer has a monopoly on any given role ,no mater how great .
We are fortunate to live at a time when it's possible to hear a wider variety of different operas and different opera singers and conductors than ever before . Make the most out of it !


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

moody said:


> Where on earth did you get that age group from ?


I don't actually recall .... but I think it's accurate. People get interested in opera later in life.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

guythegreg said:


> I don't actually recall .... but I think it's accurate. People get interested in opera later in life.


Apparently it's 48,I had no idea.
I first got into opera at age eight--a 78 record of the baritone Redvers Llewellyn singing Song Of the Toreador from Carmen on one side and Even Bravest Heart from Faust on the other,in English as ypu can see.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

moody said:


> Apparently it's 48,I had no idea.
> I first got into opera at age eight--a 78 record of the baritone Redvers Llewellyn singing Song Of the Toreador from Carmen on one side and Even Bravest Heart from Faust on the other,in English as ypu can see.


O lucky man!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

moody said:


> Apparently it's 48,I had no idea.
> I first got into opera at age eight--a 78 record of the baritone Redvers Llewellyn singing Song Of the Toreador from Carmen on one side and Even Bravest Heart from Faust on the other,in English as ypu can see.


I envy you. I wish I had.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

suteetat said:


> ... Glamour wise, I would throw in Te Kanawa, Schwarzkopf, and Della Casa as well. ...


Glamour is just the word. I don't know about Schwarzkopf or Della Casa, but Te Kanawa for sure. Glamorous. She doesn't have to sing, just be there and everyone around her feels lucky.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I first got interested in opera in the late 1990's, and even now I have a soft spot for the singers who were in their primes then (Bartoli, Larmore, Terfel, Fleming, Mattila, Heppner, etc.), so it's their CDs I tend to reach for first. I don't necessarily think these singers are _better_ than the great artists from the past (though it is my opinion that they hold up very well in comparison) -- but they are special to me because I have _personal_ memories of them, mostly from Met broadcasts. In my opera collection of complete recordings and recital discs, I currently have more recordings from the 1990's to the present than from any other period in time. However, when it comes to Verdi most of the recordings I have are from the 1960's and 1970's, with such singers as Pavarotti, Domingo, Milnes, Sutherland, Ghiaurov, and Leontyne Price. Surely there can be little argument that, at least as far as complete opera recordings are concerned, "the past" was a better period for Verdi.

When it comes to the operas of Mozart and Rossini, I admit that I much prefer more modern recordings to ones from the past (and here I consider "the past" to be anything prior to the 1980's). This definitely has something to do with the fact that in the past the Rossini operas, for example, were often abridged whereas in recent times the traditional cuts have tended to be restored. I also think that the modern singers are in general more adept at Rossini's music than past ones were. Here I'm not talking about such phenomena as Marilyn Horne and Joan Sutherland, who were superb even then; what I'm saying is that recently we've had a good supply of tenors, baritones, and basses who can sing florid music just as well as Callas, Sutherland, Horne, etc. could in the past. I also find more recent Mozart recordings more "relatable," somehow, than Mozart recordings from, say, the 1950's. Don't ask me why -- I just do.


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