# Famous conductors/instruments



## Chi_townPhilly

A while back, I recognized that the primary instrument of famous (and probably not so famous) conductors is the piano. There are more examples of this than can easily be summarized: Solti, Karajan, Bernstein, Barenboim, Eschenbach, Previn [etc., etc., etc.].

However, after we move on from piano, what are the _next_ most well-represented instruments amongst prominent conductors? Eugene Ormandy and Neville Marriner were violinists. Frederick Stock is not the only violist to ascend to the podium, Toscanini (I seem to recall) was a cellist, and Leopold Stokowski played pipe organ. Would anyone care to contribute other examples of this? How do you feel about Ormandy's contention that you can sense former pianists' "percussiveness" in their conducting?

P.S.: Not to slight the accomplishments of Ashkenazy or Zukerman, but I would prefer to keep this conversation in the direction of those musicians who achieved their greatest fame as conductors.


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## opus67

Karajan was also a (part-time) pianist! 

Pinnock with the Harpsichord

Mozart and Beethoven. 



> P.S.: Not to slight the accomplishments of Ashkenazy or Zukerman, but I would prefer to keep this conversation in the direction of those musicians who achieved their greatest fame as conductors.


So I guess Slava is out. 
Menuhin and his Bath Festival Orchestra


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## david johnson

fritz reiner, timps
gerard schwarz, trumpet

dj


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## Chi_townPhilly

opus67 said:


> Karajan was also a (part-time) pianist!





Chi_town/Philly said:


> There are more examples of this than can easily be summarized: Solti, *Karajan* (emphasis added)...


I must've stuttered (just kidding )


david johnson said:


> fritz reiner, timps


I did not know that! Good add.


david johnson said:


> gerard schwartz, trumpet


I knew that, but escaped my initial net. Another righteous add.

The next wave of research showed that we can add Bernard Haitink to the "violin" column. I knew that Stock couldn't have been the only violist. He is hereby joined by Carlo-Maria Giulini.


opus67 said:


> So I guess Slava is out.
> Menuhin and his Bath Festival Orchestra


Possible alternate thread... instrumental virtuosos who have done creditably on the podium. If you build it, I will come.


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## david johnson

guido sarducci, bagpipes


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## Manuel

Zubin Mehta: double bass (I think he can be seen playing Schubert's Trout quintet with DuPré and Barenboim)
Lorin Maazel: violin. He conducts and plays the violin in the first Danse Macabre I ever listened


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## Edward Elgar

Personally, I hate it when great instrumentalists think that because they are virtuosos, they are automatically world-class conductors.


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## Manuel

Edward Elgar said:


> Personally, I hate it when great instrumentalists think that because they are virtuosos, they are automatically world-class conductors.


And what if they prove they are world-class conductors?

Dmitri Mitropoulos was a pianist. He recorded Prokofiev's third concert, as soloist and conductor at the same time.


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## oisfetz

So were Bruno Walter, Evgeni Svetlanov and others.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Edward Elgar said:


> Personally, I hate it when great instrumentalists think that because they are virtuosos, they are automatically world-class conductors.


Possible alternate thread... instrumental virtuosos who have done not so creditably on the podium.

[I'm also grateful to the "Southern Command" for adding to this thread.]


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## Edward Elgar

Manuel said:


> Dmitri Mitropoulos was a pianist. He recorded Prokofiev's third concert, as soloist and conductor at the same time.


Now there is one acception to the rule - I love the Mozart Piano Concerto recordings where Daniel Barenboim plays and conducts, but Bernstein's recording of Shostakovich Concertos done in the same way are quite mediocre.

This is a strange revelation to me because I recognise Bernstein as a great conducter and Barenboim as a not-so-good conducter.


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## oisfetz

IMHO, Baremboin as a pianist is a mediocre conductor, and as a conductor a mediocre pianist. He new how to sell himself, and get a fame totally undeserved.


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## Manuel

oisfetz said:


> IMHO, Baremboin as a pianist is a mediocre conductor, and as a conductor a mediocre pianist. He new how to sell himself, and get a fame totally undeserved.


What is, specifically, what you don't like about him as instrumentalist?


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## oisfetz

Boresome, inexpressive,superficial.


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## Manuel

oisfetz said:


> Boresome, inexpressive,superficial.


Really? I like both his Mozart and Brahms. The first one because it's neat and tidy, but yet catchy. And the second because of his expressive character.


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## oisfetz

Oquei Manuel. Yucan quip Baremboin if iu laic jim. No rison for discus abaut dis
subyect.


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## Rondo

oisfetz said:


> Boresome, inexpressive,superficial.


That's what a lot of people say about him. But, in that respect, he was actually much better with CSO than with BPO (not to say that there weren't some fine performances from the BPO under his direction).

hmm...Upon reading this thread, my respect for Fritz Reiner has increased somewhat. Funny, he never really "stuck out" among most of the other notorious conductors Ive seen or heard performances of.

As for others, John Williams is also a pianist.


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## Edward Elgar

oisfetz said:


> IMHO, Baremboin as a pianist is a mediocre conductor, and as a conductor a mediocre pianist. He new how to sell himself, and get a fame totally undeserved.


I wouldn't be too harsh, the man has obviously devoted his life to good music and spent hours upon hours practicing - true he's not the best, but he's damn good!


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## Chi_townPhilly

It might push the envelope of "famous," but my CD notes state that cello was also the "axe" of Joseph Keilberth.


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## opus67

You know, I might add another cellist conductor here, but I'm not sure if he's the kind of person you're looking for. (And he's certainly not Barenboim-famous; not even Keilberth- famous.) I listened to Dvorak's Rondo for Cello and Orchestra, yesterday, and the soloist was Dmitri Yablonsky, who was also conducting. I knew his name from a well-received recording of Tchaikovsky's piano concerto from Naxos.


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## nwarth

Ok, I'm new to the board, and my intense love of Classical Music brings me here. I don't know how active I will be, but on an off the wall suggestion of a friend, it was suggested I post on a classical forum. As I am a fan of "ranking" I thought I aught to throw out a ranking of conductors, and this seemed an apt place as any to do it. If you have any questions as to why this order, please query and I hope to reply, any complains and I hope to reasonably argue!

Best 15 conductors:

1. Carlos Kleiber
2. Fritz Reiner
3. Michael Tilson Thomas
4. Charles Dutoit
5. James Levine
6. Robert Shaw
7. John Elliot Gardiner
8. Claudio Abbado
9. Sir Colin Davis
10. Neville Marriner
11. George Solti
12. Andre Previn
13. Bernard Haitink
14. Adrian Boult
15. George Szell

Most overrated Conductors:

1. Herbert von Karajan
2. Leonard Bernstein (note: for conducting, not composing!)
3. Arturo Toscanini


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## Rondo

I happen to notice that Bruno Walter isn't on your list....and (to a lesser extent) neither is Herbert Blomstedt. 

Additionally, not to say that there weren't some magnificent performances under these conductors, I can see why you would believe those particular three are overshadowed. Personally, I believe Bernstein is over-rated for Mahler, however, for Beethoven he's up there...below Walter, Solti and Klemperer, of course


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## Rondo

Wasn't Charles Munch a prominent violinist?


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## Manuel

Ataulfo Argenta was also a pianist. A recording exists of a Brahms sonata with Grumiaux.


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## opus67

Currently listening to Schubert's Trout Quintet via the 'net.

*Sawallisch, Wolfgang*, piano
Pospichal, Jan, violin
Klos, Wolfgang , viola
Rehm, Wilfried, cello
Weissensteiner, Ernst, double bass

It's from this CD.

That was news to me.

I see that this doesn't answer CTP's question, but I'm just adding yet another conductor + part-time pianist to the list.


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## World Violist

Um... hello... John Barbirolli!?!?!? He was a cellist. He was in the cello section of the premiere performance of Elgar's cello concerto, and performed as the soloist himself later. I'm shocked his name hasn't yet so much as been mentioned here.

Oh - and Osmo Vanska's a clarinetist, but in my opinion one of the greatest living conductors.


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## confuoco

World Violist said:


> Osmo Vanska's a clarinetist


Colin Davis is clarinetist, too.

And I have to opine to Barenboim, I think he is noble pianist and his playing is intelligent, balanced and allows you to direct your attention to music itself and not the player. I think this is very important atribute of good interpret. He has gift to express spirit of works from different musical periods in the right way. And finally I have to mention at least his recordings of Beethoven sonatas, belonging to the best ever made.


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## hunter85

Bruno Walter


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## opus67

hunter85 said:


> Bruno Walter


Could you elaborate on what musical instrument(s) he was adept at playing?


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## Chi_townPhilly

This weekend, I read that *Klaus Tennstedt* was a concertmaster-level violinist, before a debilitating finger injury ended his efforts on that instrument.


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## Atabey

Mariss Jansons,both a pianist and a violinist according to Wikipedia.


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## Atabey

A good thing that finger injury prevented Tennstedt from becoming a violinist.He became a fascinating conductor.


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## World Violist

Well, that and Seiji Ozawa became the conductor he is because a rugby injury that broke both his index fingers cut his piano career short.


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## mueske

Some people might hate me for even saying his name, but his conducting is adequate enough for me.

Maxim Vengerov - violinist


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## World Violist

mueske said:


> Some people might hate me for even saying his name, but his conducting is adequate enough for me.
> 
> Maxim Vengerov - violinist


Well, I think this thread is about conductors who made their big fame in conducting. I mean, if we added in those who were violinists first, then conductors (or other instrumentalists, for that matter), we could add Menuhin, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Zukerman, Perlman, Zehetmair, and a host of others... I think Kremer is somewhat of a conductor too, isn't he?


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## mueske

World Violist said:


> Well, I think this thread is about conductors who made their big fame in conducting. I mean, if we added in those who were violinists first, then conductors (or other instrumentalists, for that matter), we could add Menuhin, Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Zukerman, Perlman, Zehetmair, and a host of others... I think Kremer is somewhat of a conductor too, isn't he?


Oh, I didn't think that mattered, I'm sorry, my mistake.


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## dmichaele

Interesting to note that the MD of the Berlin Phil. was a timpanist. I believe Colin Davis was a clarinetist. 

Gustav Meier, who taught conducting at Tanglewood for many years, believed that playing piano or a stringed instrument was not nearly as important as having a foundation in composition. It makes sense. As a conductor you are dealing with compositions, so having a foundation in theory, orchestration, etc. is important.

DmichaelE


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