# How is composition generally taught?



## Delafin

Perhaps this question is more suited for the 'Today's composers' subforum but it seems I can't start a thread there, apologies if this is the wrong section for my question. 

As an amateur musician and rather late admirer of classical music I've wanted to learn more about music theory and specifially classical composition for several years now. 
I started composition classes in september at a local music school and while the teacher is definitely very knowledgeable the classes are highly unstructured. Generally I'm expected to write anything and he would give some comment on it. But there are no 'structured' classes in four part writing for example, or any lessons about form, orchestration, etc... 

When I read about composers of the past, they sometimes had several years of training in counterpoint for example. But how did this take shape in a practical sense? Did they only write contrapuntal music for 4 years under a teacher? Is there any literature available about the historical passing down of compositional knowledge? 

Any insights in this are greatly appreciated!


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## EdwardBast

A little more information might help in getting relevant responses. What country are you studying in? Is this a college class? Is it for music majors or open to a wider range of people? Any other relevant info about the program offering the course?

In music programs in which I have studied and taught at the college level, composition students tended to have two years of theory and a year of counterpoint under their belts — or equivalent competencies or a portfolio of completed compositions. Without more info on the program you're enrolled in I can't say for sure, but could the part writing skills and knowledge of form you mention be assumed?


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## mbhaub

It would be fascinating to know how composition classes were taught say in 1860 Leipzig. But teaching and learning composition methods are likely all over the place. Boulanger in Paris didn't teach classes per se, but let the student express himself and then discuss it bar by bar. In my nearby university, the comp classes are more of a seminar: students gather informally from time to time to listen to what each is working on and discuss. 

I took one semester of composition in college almost 50 years ago. To be admitted to the course the student must have completed two years of theory, solfeggio, counterpoint, orchestration/arranging, and demonstrate some keyboard skills. It started out simply: write song using the instructor provided text. ABA form. Over a couple of weeks we polished what we had done: add an intro, a coda, work on smoothing out modulations, etc. We met three times a week and with only six students in the class got a lot of individual attention. Next up: write a rondo for string quartet - ABACABA. Coming up with the themes was the hard part. No two consecutive sections could be in the same key...this took more time and a lot of sweat. Then came the wind quintet: two movements in contrasting style and the hardest demand: NO four bar phrases. The last item was a keyboard suite in four movements each about one minute with the designated titles: overture, lullaby, scherzo, finale. That was my worst submission by a mile. I was going to take second semester, but the first assignment was a 12-tone string trio and that went down a road I had no interest, or ability in. Math was taking up too much time anyway. 

Was my experience normal? typical? I don't know. In some ways I don't know if composition can even be taught. A lot of great composers never took a course called Composition 101! Still, I'd like to know what did Robert Fuchs teach in Vienna. How did Jadassohn produce such wonderful composers? Was there a textbook?


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## Tikoo Tuba

Here is a multi-trac recorder and a keyboard / Play . The Computer will print your composition but not exactly .

It is stupid .


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## EdwardBast

I had private lessons in composition as a master's student. They consisted of me coming in with whatever I had written that week, the teacher and I playing it, and then him critiquing my work and making suggestions on matters great and small, from details of voice-leading and harmony, to working methods and general aesthetic principles. A couple of his comments and suggestions have stuck with me, like "Do you really need an introduction? Have you considered maybe just starting the damn thing with the main idea?" and, of a string quartet I was ending with a fugue, he said with wry skepticism: "Yeah, when in doubt end with a fugue." Another thing he suggested, citing the working methods of Sibelius, a composer he greatly admired, was "When you come to a crucial juncture or transition point, try writing four completely different continuations — to assess the range of possibilities. It might lead to a direction you wouldn't immediately consider." He would also make many practical suggestions on orchestration and instrumental capabilities.


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