# Your absolute least favorite major composition by your all time favorite composer/s



## DavidMahler

OK.... major composition as in, something that wasn't written when the composer was 3 years old. Something held in high regard, but just your least favorite effort by this composer.

Please explain why


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## tdc

My least favorite Ravel composition is probably Bolero. I don't mind it, it has enjoyable moments, but it is very repetitive and for the same reasons alluded to by the composer himself (lacking actual 'music'), its just not a piece I would consider as one of his better works - more of a musical joke kind of thing. It was an interesting experiment though and not something I would discard all together.


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## Dodecaplex

Mozart seems to have had an attraction towards frivolous and lightweight music when he wrote this.

Bach's writing-robotic-music senses were probably tingling when he wrote this.

Alkan seems to have been on acid when he wrote this.

Beethoven must have felt very grumpy (not to mention very deaf) while he was writing this.

Liszt's ego seems to have been very proud of itself while it was writing this collection of musical cliches.

sarcasm


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## Jeremy Marchant

Well, _Finlandia _is one of my least favourite of Sibelius's compositions. His later music is amongst music that is most important to me, full stop. But the jingoistic ra-ra just grates. That it is heartfelt is laudable, but doesn't make it more palatable.


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## Trout

Beethoven's _Moonlight Sonata_ is probably my least favorite of his piano sonatas and probably my least favorite of his works altogether. I always get this very dizzy feeling while listening to it and is nowhere near the caliber of his later ones (especially his last 7 sonatas). How it is so highly ranked is beyond me.


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## Guest

Brahms' piano concertos.


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## pjang23

Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No.1


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## Trout

DrMike said:


> Brahms' piano concertos.


WHY???


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## Polednice

The 17th Hungarian Dance.


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## Itullian

Polednice said:


> The 17th Hungarian Dance.


had to sell out, didn't you. :scold:


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## Tapkaara

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Well, _Finlandia _is one of my least favourite of Sibelius's compositions. His later music is amongst music that is most important to me, full stop. But the jingoistic ra-ra just grates. That it is heartfelt is laudable, but doesn't make it more palatable.


I can never figure out why people don't like Finlandia!! Well, maybe I can. It's been played and performed so many times, I guess it just gets old for the non-obsessed (like me.) My least favorite Sibelius piece, if I can even pick one, is Valse triste. I hardly ever listen to it. I'm really not sure why because it is actually very good. I guess it's just because I have heard it so many times. Familiarity does sometimes breed contempt, justified or not!

I am sure, Jeremy, that you and I can agree that Finlandia is a nationalist piece. But I will disagree with you that it is jingoist. Jingoism suggests to me a sort of domineering and prideful national chauvanism. That is was never the intent of Finlandia. It rallied a supressed people together when they were under the thumb of Imperial Russia. Very different from, say, the Pomp and Circumstance marches, a piece where the nationalist intentions are more in line with what you are thinking.

Nationalism does not necessary equal jingoism. And having pride in one's nation is, on a very fundemental level, a beautiful and necessary thing. The Finns have such a pride and Finlandia, as overplayed as it is, is a very pure, forceful and _harmless_ expression of that.


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## DavidMahler

DrMike said:


> Brahms' piano concertos.


you must explain this


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## DavidMahler

I think Mahler's weakest symphony is his 1st.

Of the major Brahms works that recieve a LOT of acclaim, I would probably say that the cello sonatas dont do it as much for me.


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## clavichorder

I'm not overly fond of Medtner's 3rd piano concerto, it is a bit dull to me.


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## mmsbls

Although I must have a least favorite composition of all my favorite composers, I do not know any major works that I do not like. The closest I could come was Prokofiev's Violin Concertos. I would not place Prokofiev as one of my favorite composers, but I do like his symphonies, piano concertos, and some piano sonatas a lot. The violin concertos, however, don't seem to move me at all.


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## regressivetransphobe

Tapkaara said:


> having pride in one's nation is, on a very fundemental level, a beautiful and necessary thing.


Not really. Arbitrary lines on a map only have the spiritual significance you project.

Carnival of the Animals, I just think it's kind of banal. I always thought Saint-Saens was right to mostly suppress it until after his death, but now it's the work everyone knows him for, so what do I know.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Tapkaara said:


> I am sure, Jeremy, that you and I can agree that Finlandia is a nationalist piece. But I will disagree with you that it is jingoist. Jingoism suggests to me a sort of domineering and prideful national chauvanism. That is was never the intent of Finlandia. It rallied a supressed people together when they were under the thumb of Imperial Russia. Very different from, say, the Pomp and Circumstance marches, a piece where the nationalist intentions are more in line with what you are thinking.
> 
> Nationalism does not necessary equal jingoism. And having pride in one's nation is, on a very fundemental level, a beautiful and necessary thing. The Finns have such a pride and Finlandia, as overplayed as it is, is a very pure, forceful and _harmless_ expression of that.


I agree! Maybe 'jingoistic' was a bit harsh, but it is how I perceive _Finlandia_. The meaning of a message is what the recipient makes of it, after all. And I can't say I am thrilled by _Valse triste_ myself.


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## elgar's ghost

Mahler's 8th. I don't dislike it, but it's without doubt my least favourite Mahler symphony. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he designated this as a symphony but not Das Lied von der Erde, a work I prefer and one which seems to make more sense to me as regards symphonic structure. Perhaps if Mahler had written Das Lied v d E first then maybe it instead would have been designated Symphony no. 8, rather than the official no. 8 which I've always thought of more as an oratorio-style work than a symphony. As regards Mahler's symphonic cycle as a whole, no. 8 has always struck me as being something a bit anomalous - a square peg in a round hole.


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## Sid James

Beethoven is one of my favourite composers, but I don't like his_ Sym. #5_ that much now. But then again, I hardly listen to his symphonies anyway, but I don't like that one in particular.

Bartok's string quartets don't grab me at all, even though I like a good deal of his other music. But I aim to listen to them again, it's been a while. I'm similar with his _Violin Concerto #2_ as well, I think it's kind of boring now but before (I'm saying over 10 years ago), I thought it was the bees knees so to speak. I have heard his _Bluebeard's Castle _and _Miraculous Mandarin _and I don't particularly want to hear them again for various reasons.

I don't mind Ravel's _Bolero_ but I did too much repeated listening to his _Daphnis et Chloe _(the complete ballet) a few years back & haven't been able to listen to it since (overkill).

I don't like to listen to Stravinsky's _Rite of Spring _many times now either, I'm more interested in his other things, esp. chamber.

I do like some things by R. Strauss, some of them to the max, but I have little time for his large scale orchestral things. His operas the same but opera isn't my area in general, so that's not surprising.

Berlioz has also kind of dropped off my radar, I rarely listen to his music now, part of the reason is less small scale things available from him.

Except for Strauss, these are composers whose music I either love or generally like, so with these types of composers, I find it hard to think of something by them that I really don't like. Of course this can change, I like a lot of "cliched" things now that I didn't before, eg. Rodrigo & Saint-Saens, I tend to go through cycles with these things, a lot of it can be related to overkill, too much of a good thing, etc...


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## StlukesguildOhio

Polednice... you seem to have missed the point: the least favorite piece of music by your favorite composer. In other words... what do you think sucks by Brahms.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I think Mahler's weakest symphony is his 1st.

And I've long loved this one.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Carnival of the Animals, I just think it's kind of banal. I always thought Saint-Saens was right to mostly suppress it until after his death, but now it's the work everyone knows him for, so what do I know.

And Saint-Saens is your all-time favorite composer?


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## StlukesguildOhio

Beethoven is one of my favourite composers, but I don't like his Sym. #5 that much now. But then again, I hardly listen to his symphonies anyway, but I don't like that one in particular.

I think a lot of works fall into that over-played category: Beethoven's 5th and the _Moonlight Sonata_, Vivaldi's _Four Seasons_, Bach's _Brandenburgs_, etc... because I almost never listen to the radio or watch TV... and because of the scale of my music collection... I am able to largely avoid this sort of saturation. I was quite impressed with Tchaikovsky's_ Nutcracker_ in a recent Gergiev recording... although it is a work that I must have listened to the point of saturation when I was younger along with _The Rite of Spring, Carmina Burana_, Tchaikovsky's 6th, and a few others.

Bartok's string quartets don't grab me at all, even though I like a good deal of his other music. 

Here I'm surprised. I quite enjoy these... as knotty as they are. They must be among the finest quartets of the century... alongside Shostakovitch'.

I have heard his Bluebeard's Castle and Miraculous Mandarin and I don't particularly want to hear them again for various reasons.

Hmmm...?

Berlioz has also kind of dropped off my radar, I rarely listen to his music now, part of the reason is less small scale things available from him.

On the other hand, I've been slowly coming around to Berlioz. Alma has convinced me to give Les Troyens another listen... and soon I shall.


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## Sid James

^^I don't mind some "warhorses," or maybe even a lot. Sometimes it has little to do with them being overplayed, eg. I don't like Tchaikovsky's _Pathetique _as I find it depressing, but I still think it's a great work, pivotal, seminal, etc. It's hard to tell why one things keeps clicking years and dozens of listens later and others don't. Eg. I love Mozart's _Eine Kliene Nachtmusik_, & yet can't stand Beethoven's 5th. Maybe it's that Beethoven's darkness to light thing has been copied heaps of times since his time. The original has kind of become cliche in a way, due to being overcopied. This isn't surprising, heaps of innovations now commonplace occured in ages past. So we're used to them and sometimes, for whatever reason, they irritate us...


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## StlukesguildOhio

Now... my turn... hmmm...? Let's see, is there anything by Bach that I actually don't like? This is gonna be hard. I will admit that I don't like this:






Actually makes me wanna barf. But then again... at this point it's not really by Bach anymore, is it?

I was going to suggest the Musical Offering... but in all reality, I simply haven't listened to the work enough to offer much of an opinion one way or another. The only version that I do have includes a rather bland version of the Art of Fugue as well... so it may just be the performance. I actually have the recording by Jordi Savall on the way.

I think I'm going to have to get back to you on this one.


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## Guest

Trout said:


> WHY???


 I just can't get into them. I don't know why. For a while I didn't much care for his symphonies either, but have gotten into them through John Eliot Gardiner's new recordings.


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## Sid James

*@ stlukes, re. J.S. Bach* - I don't like _*Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring *_either. Probably because it's been overplayed. The organ version I find not too bad though, but anything with vocals by Bach tends not to work with me, or hasn't so far, but I'm not worried.

Re _*The Musical Offering*_, I recently purchased Davitt Moroney's recording on Harmonia Mundi white label. I have loved the _Trio Sonata _ from Part II for years, remember it well, but had never heard the bits either side of it. The _Ricercar a 6_ from Part I, a six voice counterpoint piece for solo harpsichord, is pretty amazing on a technical level, and the way he plays it is very emotional. As for Part III, nothing much sticks in my memory from that, but it is good. I know what you mean about it, people I know who love Bach heaps say it's kind of dry compared to his other things, but I like it's intimacy & in terms of the _Trio Sonata_, it's basically easy listening, quite relaxing. That bit is quite popular, but not exactly what I'd call warhorse. I like how he balanced pushing the harpsichord techniques in the outer parts and just writing something not too demanding to listen to in the middle part, that's kind of how the dedicatee Frederick the Great wanted it to be, and that's exactly what he got...


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## StlukesguildOhio

stlukes, re. J.S. Bach - I don't like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring either. Probably because it's been overplayed.

Oh, don't get me wrong... I quite enjoy it as it was written... as part of _Cantanta 147_... but taken out of this context it certainly is played too much... and often in the most schmaltzy of manners... as is the youtube example... which you will probably wish to avoid (already disliking YouTube and this piece).:lol:


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## clavichorder

StlukesguildOhio said:


> stlukes, re. J.S. Bach - I don't like Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring either. Probably because it's been overplayed.
> 
> Oh, don't get me wrong... I quite enjoy it as it was written... as part of _Cantanta 147_... but btaken out of this context it certainly is played too much... and often in the most schmaltzy of manners... as is the youtube example... which you will probably wish to avoid (already disliking YouTube and this piece).:lol:


I just posted an insulting comment on that video. Thank you for bringing it to my attention so I could give it at least some of the verbal lashing it deserves.


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## Lisztian

Grand Galop Chromatique
Polonaise Melancolique in C Minor

Neither can be considered major works, although I can't think of any of his major works i'm not fond of, except maybe his Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations, and the Fantasy and Fugue on B-A-C-H, but i've only heard both a couple of times, and they are supposed to be works that take getting used to, especially the former.

Oh and while I don't mind this piece, I never was particularly fond of the 'Rigoletto' paraphrase.


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## Igneous01

Liszt Faust Symphony, I dont know, its just wierd, it feels to me like it never goes anywhere, I always fall asleep through the middle and forget the thematic material.
Beethoven 9th, I just find it too bombastic, and too overplayed
Prokofiev SQ 1, Just never clicked, I played it twice in succession so I could remember the thematic material and flow more, but It just doesnt click for me.


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## Art Rock

Mahler VIII.


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## Comistra

DrMike said:


> I just can't get into them. I don't know why. For a while I didn't much care for his symphonies either, but have gotten into them through John Eliot Gardiner's new recordings.


I had a similar reaction to Brahms' piano concertos. No matter how many times I listened to them, by the time they were over, I'd completely forgotten what I just heard. I didn't actively dislike them by any means, but there was nothing there I cared for.

Then yesterday I caught the last movement of the first concerto on the radio and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So now I have to go back and listen to the whole thing and see what I think. I might still not care for it, but it's worth another try.


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## Lisztian

Oh and I also forgot to mention, although I love his symphonic poems...Die Ideale is awful. I'm also not terribly fond of Prometheus. I actually really like some of these works that are known to be poor works though, like Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, Mazeppa, Festklänge, and Hungaria. And of course I LOVE Les préludes, Orpheus, Héroïde funèbre, and Tasso: Lamento e Trionfo.


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## Klavierspieler

I'm with the people who don't like Moonlight. (Despite the impression I might give, Beethoven remains my favourite composer)


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## violadude

Lisztian said:


> Oh and I also forgot to mention, although I love his symphonic poems...Die Ideale is awful. I'm also not terribly fond of Prometheus. I actually really like some of these works that are known to be poor works though, like Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, Mazeppa, Festklänge, and Hungaria. And of course I LOVE Les préludes, Orpheus, Héroïde funèbre, and Tasso: Lamento e Trionfo.


Do you like "Die Hunnenschlacht"?


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## Lisztian

violadude said:


> Do you like "Die Hunnenschlacht"?


That is actually the symphonic poem of his that I am least familiar with. I've only heard it one or two times, for some reason. I remember having a pleasant experience listening to it...but i'm not sure. As soon as I finish listening to the piano music i'm currently listening to I will have another listen of Die Hunnenschlacht and tell you what I think. Why do you ask?


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## Oskaar

BOLERO


tdc said:


> it is very repetitive


Hmm. Repetition is important in the piece...Adding gradually more instruments. The whole idea is repetition!


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## violadude

Lisztian said:


> That is actually the symphonic poem of his that I am least familiar with. I've only heard it one or two times, for some reason. I remember having a pleasant experience listening to it...but i'm not sure. As soon as I finish listening to the piano music i'm currently listening to I will have another listen of Die Hunnenschlacht and tell you what I think. Why do you ask?


I got a CD of some of his Tone Poems and Die HunnenSchlacht and Les Preludes were my favorite ones.


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## Lisztian

Oh okay  What other ones are on that CD? (and what CD is it?).


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## waldvogel

Samuel Barber's Piano Concerto is his attempt to write a twelve-tone composition. Barber hated twelve-tone music, hated that he had to write it in order to sound "modern", and it clearly shows in this strict, angry piece.


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## violadude

Lisztian said:


> Oh okay  What other ones are on that CD? (and what CD is it?).


 http://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Symphon...=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1322081433&sr=1-5


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## Huilunsoittaja

I really dislike that cantata "Seven, there are Seven" by Prokofiev. It was just a disturbing idea. Music to worship demons is kind of scary, and I don't know what his motivation was in writing it, but it quite worries me.


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## elgar's ghost

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I really dislike that cantata "Seven, there are Seven" by Prokofiev. It was just a disturbing idea. Music to worship demons is kind of scary, and I don't know what his motivation was in writing it, but it quite worries me.


I'm guessing Prokofiev admired Konstantin Bal'mont (his op. 36 songs were on his texts) - I can't think of any other possibility, really.


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## TrazomGangflow

Mozart's Symphony no. 41 (Jupiter). I respect this as a great work but I feel like I'm at a circus when I listen to it. I would rather listen to his 40th symphony instead.


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## regressivetransphobe

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I really dislike that cantata "Seven, there are Seven" by Prokofiev. It was just a disturbing idea. Music to worship demons is kind of scary, and I don't know what his motivation was in writing it, but it quite worries me.


Don't worry, there's no such thing as Hell or demons. Your soul is safe


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## Couchie

regressivetransphobe said:


> Don't worry, there's no such thing as Hell or demons. Your soul is safe


You obviously haven't met my ex-wife.


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## hespdelk

While I love just about everything by Brahms, the notable exception are his piano concertos for myself as well. I don't dislike them per se, but have never been much drawn to them either.

Not a fan of Prokofiev's symphonies (with the exception of the 1st) - the 5th and 7th symphonies are, for me, some of his most uninteresting music. I can't really comment on the others as I'm not very familiar with them -something I should get around to rectifying in the near future.


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## kv466

I have to say that with Bach, there are actually quite a few pieces (non-keyboard) that I do not care for at all.

With my other favorite, Beethoven, I have to go with the overtures and the no. 5, 1st mvt.


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## Lisztian

violadude said:


> Do you like "Die Hunnenschlacht"?


Just listened to Die Hunnenschlacht and....I LOVED IT! It is certainly one of his finest symphonic poems. Liszt avoided the temptation to let the piece drag on (which in some of his tone poems he doesn't avoid that temptation, and even though I like some of these, they would be better if he didn't overextend them), and in the 14 or whatever minutes it goes for it certainly packs a punch! I can see it becoming one of my favourites by him.


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## violadude

Lisztian said:


> Just listened to Die Hunnenschlacht and....I LOVED IT! It is certainly one of his finest symphonic poems. Liszt avoided the temptation to let the piece drag on (which in some of his tone poems he doesn't avoid that temptation, and even though I like some of these, they would be better if he didn't overextend them), and in the 14 or whatever minutes it goes for it certainly packs a punch! I can see it becoming one of my favourites by him.


Good! Glad I mentioned it to you.


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## Glissando

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum. I look forward to rapping with you all about classical music.

I am generally a big Wagner fan, but I found watching entire acts from _Das Rheingold_ and _Siegfried_ to be a disappointment. I just found the story silly, the characters unlikeable and the constant use of the leitmotifs irritating. There are long stretches where it felt like nothing musically compelling was happening. The whole project just seems self-indulgent and aimless to me. I still enjoy highlights from The Ring (the Forging song from _Siegfried_ is a brilliant piece) but have no plans to give another stab at immersing myself in this particular _gesamtkunkstwerk_ experience.

I also love Bach, but apart from the famous Passacaglia, I'm not really into his organ music. However, this has more to do with my idiosyncratic dislike of the organ's sound. As an instrument it sounds oppressively blaring, and its lack of the expressive touches allowed by other instruments somehow bothers me.


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## Taneyev

PIT "1812" Effectist and theatrical. Never liked it. Something like LvB "Wellington".


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## violadude

Glissando said:


> Hello everyone. I am new to this forum. I look forward to rapping with you all about classical music.
> 
> I am generally a big Wagner fan, but I found watching entire acts from _Das Rheingold_ and _Siegfried_ to be a disappointment. I just found the story silly, the characters unlikeable and the constant use of the leitmotifs irritating. There are long stretches where it felt like nothing musically compelling was happening. The whole project just seems self-indulgent and aimless to me. I still enjoy highlights from The Ring (the Forging song from _Siegfried_ is a brilliant piece) but have no plans to give another stab at immersing myself in this particular _gesamtkunkstwerk_ experience.
> 
> I also love Bach, but apart from the famous Passacaglia, I'm not really into his organ music. However, this has more to do with my idiosyncratic dislike of the organ's sound. As an instrument it sounds oppressively blaring, and its lack of the expressive touches allowed by other instruments somehow bothers me.


Welcome to the forum bro!


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## elgar's ghost

Glissando said:


> Hello everyone. I am new to this forum. I look forward to rapping with you all about classical music.
> 
> I just found the story silly, the characters unlikeable and the constant use of the leitmotifs irritating.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Never let a story get in the way of a great opera! :lol::lol:


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## Huilunsoittaja

regressivetransphobe said:


> Don't worry, there's no such thing as Hell or demons. Your soul is safe


Worried about my soul? Not at all! I'm worried about _his _soul! But I think it's too late to worry about that...


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## Glissando

violadude said:


> Welcome to the forum bro!


Thank you, sir!


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## eorrific

Umm... Beethoven's Fidelio. :scold: Just yuck! It nauseates me more than his Bagatelle in A minor (or maybe not)


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## teccomin

hespdelk said:


> While I love just about everything by Brahms, the notable exception are his piano concertos for myself as well. I don't dislike them per se, but have never been much drawn to them either.
> 
> Not a fan of Prokofiev's symphonies (with the exception of the 1st) - the 5th and 7th symphonies are, for me, some of his most uninteresting music. I can't really comment on the others as I'm not very familiar with them -something I should get around to rectifying in the near future.


If you are not a fan of Prokofiev's symphonies except the 1st, then you are not a fan of Prokofiev at all


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Musca Ricercarta I by György Ligeti. Hopeless effort. 1 second's worth it maybe. I much prefer the Kammerkonzert.


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## jalex

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Musca Ricercarta I by György Ligeti. Hopeless effort. 1 second's worth it maybe. I much prefer the Kammerkonzert.


Woah. I really like the Ricercata. Why do you hate it?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

It's only the first one as a matter of fact. One note repeated in different rhythms and octaves gets tedious. No harmonic development. Just one note. And then the note a perfect fifth below/fourth above played once to round it off.


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## nefigah

I honestly don't know all of the works of any composer well enough to voice a real opinion, but if I pick my favorite composer (Beethoven) and the body of his works with which I'm most familiar (the piano sonatas), I can pass some judgment: I don't care for no. 26 ("Les adieux/Das Lebewohl"). That it is one of the most popular makes it all the more vexing. 

I could try to do the same for Bach and his organ works, but it would be more difficult because there are so many and their quality is pretty consistent. But the hymn/chorale settings don't do much for me, even the famous ones like "Wachet auf..."


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## Lisztian

Had to revive this thread because of some recent listening of mine...And to confirm some thoughts from one of my earlier posts in this thread...And yeah, I know i'm listing way more than one, and most of them aren't major...but I felt like making a list. 

Polonaise mélancolique: Still not getting it...
Grand Galop Chromatique: I struggle listening to this piece. I understand it's a flashy showpiece...but Liszt wrote countless other ones that I enjoy much more.
Variations on a theme from Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen: Leslie Howard says this is one of Liszt's finest works...I don't hear it, in fact I don't find it easy to listen to. Then again Leslie Howard's recording is the only one i've heard...I should try some other ones as Leslie, at times, brings out the worst in a piece.
Cantique d’amour: A supposed masterpiece (in the loose solo piano use of the word) in the Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, but it's one of my least favourites in the set. I don't really like it. Then again, like the previous piece, i've only really heard Leslie Howard.
Hamlet: One of Liszt's more respected symphonic poems, and supposedly a masterpiece - I never did understand this work.
Die Ideale: Known as perhaps his most flawed symphonic poem, and I agree.
Prometheus: Known as one of his finest symphonic poems, it leaves me cold. It's like...powerful music that has no power to it, at least not to me.

But again, with Liszt a lot of pieces take me a LONG time to get...I will keep giving them a chance. And also with some pieces get recordings that aren't Leslie Howard (love some of his playing, but some is very poor IMO).


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## jalex

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> It's only the first one as a matter of fact. One note repeated in different rhythms and octaves gets tedious. No harmonic development. Just one note. And then the note a perfect fifth below/fourth above played once to round it off.


Well, it only makes sense in context. I find it sufficiently rhythmically interesting and short that it doesn't become boring. And the effect of the D after however long of just hearing A's is interesting.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

jalex said:


> Well, it only makes sense in context. I find it sufficiently rhythmically interesting and short that it doesn't become boring. And the effect of the D after however long of just hearing A's is interesting.


I suppose so. It still remains my least favourite work by Ligeti.


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## BradPiano

pjang23 said:


> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No.1


This piece sounds like it would be a lot better without the piano. The orchestra parts aren't actually that bad.


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## science

I'm not sure, but maybe my favorite composer is Brahms. 

And my least favorite works by him are op. 52 and 65, the liebeslieder. Lieder is usually a hard genre for me anyway, and these have not yet connected with me.


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## csolomonholmes

No all time favorite per say as I like different things for different moods. Two that stick out at the moment are György Cziffra's Fantaisie roumaine, improvisation sur deux airs folkloriques dans le style tzigane and Stravinsky's Petrouchka.


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## spradlig

Mahler: Symphony #1: The melodic material is not good enough to merit the loud, bombastic, and lengthy treatment it receives.

Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto: insipid, cloying, wimpy.

Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #1: very cheesy. Also, Tchaikovsky couldn't figure out what to do with the opening theme of the work after a few minutes.

Beethoven: Symphony #3, last movement: the theme is so lame even Beethoven couldn't do much with it. I like one of the variations, maybe two, tops.

Brahms: Serenade #2 (the one with the weird orchestra): stuffy, trite.

Copland: Appalachian Spring (esp. "Simple Gifts" part): I really can't stand that "Simple Gifts" song.

R. Strauss: Death and Transfiguration: I love almost all of his other major tone poems, but I just don't get it. The themes aren't very good, and Strauss didn't redeem them. Where's the beef? I think John Williams did a better job with a theme he may have cribbed in a song he wrote for the "Superman" movie.

Cesar Franck: Symphony in D: pretentious inflation of merely decent melodies, similar to many Beethoven symphonic movements. "All ye, kneel before The Great Theme!"



Just my opinion, of course. No flames please! Some of these pieces are overplayed, and I've heard them too many times. If I'd only heard them once or twice, I might like them, but I can't tell anymore.


----------



## Winterreisender

As much as I love Schubert, the popularity of the "Great" 9th Symphony remains a mystery to me. Yes, it is longer than your average classical symphony, but I don't believe the material is sufficiently weighty to justify the added length.

I also love Schumann, and especially his piano music, but I do find the "Carnaval" Op. 9 a bit of a novelty, which I became tired of rather quickly. 

Another favourite composer is Vaughan Williams, but the Sea Symphony is bombastic, overblown nonsense (in my humble opinion).


----------



## motoboy

Das Lied von der Erde


----------



## Cosmos

Some least favorite works by some favorite composers:

*Beethoven*: Symphony 4. It's not one of the "bigger" Beethoven symphony, but all the symphonies are revered as some of the best so I just have to say it. The 4th bores me to tears. I've listened to it multiple times yet I still can't hum a melody from the work because it is so forgettable for me. The fact that it was written between the grand third and the awesome (though overplayed) fifth and sixth baffles me.
*Mahler*: Symphony 3. This looks odd, because there's this general opinion I've noticed that the 8th or the 1st is the least likable (in the case of 8, it's an "all that glitters is not gold" situation). But the third hasn't really impacted me the same way as the others. The first movement is awesome, but the rest of the work (the last hour nearly) is just dull to me. I don't mind listening to it, because it's Mahler, but it doesn't captivate me nearly as much as the others.
*Chopin*: Nocturne op. 9 no. 2. Really because it's so overplayed, it's lost its magic. Especially considering the nocturne that comes before it, which is in the same calming mood just in a minor key, and all the superb nocturnes that came after it. I'd also include his first piano sonata, which isn't considered a masterpiece so it may not count for this thread. I bring it up because his 2nd and 3rd sonatas have become staples of the Romantic piano sonata repertoire. If I remember correctly, this one was supposed to be a homework assignment for the conservatory, so I can forgive Freddie here.
*Scriabin*: Piano Sonata 6. I love his sonatas, but this one just doesn't do it for me. He shuddered while playing it because of the darkness within the music. I would have shuddered too, because it's just boring.
*R. Strauss*: Till Eulenspiegel. Nothing merry about this one.
*Bach*: The Harpsichord Concertos. Nothing wrong with the music at all, I just don't care for the sound of the instrument, pared with baroque orchestral writing.

These are the only ones that come to mind right now, so I'm not going to force any others. Plus, why stay stuck on negativity?


----------



## Cosmos

motoboy said:


> Das Lied von der Erde


BLASPHEMY!!!


----------



## Vesteralen

Schumann "The Two Grenadiers" Op 49 #1

Oh yeah, I'm supposed to explain why.

Just the kind of martial music I hate with a passion.

There is not a "martial" atom in my body, and not a "martial" thought in my brain.


----------



## tempo

Is this one of those threads where people try to look oh-so-clever by claiming to feel sick when they hear a piece of classical music that's generally enormously popular?!


----------



## Cosmos

tempo said:


> Is this one of those threads where people try to look oh-so-clever by claiming to feel sick when they hear a piece of classical music that's generally enormously popular?!


I don't think anyone's trying to be clever, they're just answering the question.


----------



## Mister Man

Beethoven's late String Quartets, I think they're dry.


----------



## Chronochromie

Surprisingly I'm lukewarm regarding Schubert's 9th Symphony, but I've only heard it once and wasn't paying full attention.
Sibelius' Violin Concerto doesn't move me much.
I haven't heard a lot of Dvorak, but I like everything so far except his Cello Concerto.


----------



## mikey

Schumann fmin Sonata - Love Schumann but can't get into this piece. Maybe need a new recording.
Sibelius - 4th symphony, listened through and did not understand a bar of it. (perhaps repeated listening will help)
Mendelssohn - 2nd piano Concerto. No idea why I can't get into this piece.
Mozart - PC 25, likewise.


----------



## BurningDesire

Mister Man said:


> Beethoven's late String Quartets, I think they're dry.


What do you mean by dry?


----------



## tempo

Mister Man said:


> Beethoven's late String Quartets, I think they're dry.


Brilliant example of what I said in my previous post in this thread. Beethoven's late String Quartets are "dry"??!?!?

Hilarious, really. I'm inclined to think that this has either been said for pure effect or said by someone who's not really listened to the late Quartets properly or by someone who's not good at selecting adjectives.

Dislike them, by all means, but to call them "dry" is daft, at least without further explanation of what you mean.


----------



## tempo

BurningDesire said:


> What do you mean by dry?


My sentiments exactly.


----------



## Badinerie

Love Dvorak Symphonies....No 9? Please no! 

I totally agree with Ravel/Bolero The man was a brilliant composer, and all most people know is something Torvil and Dean smashed about on ice to? Good Grief!

Something that also bugs me is when the most famous part of a work is the weakest. Eg Strauss's Also sprach zarathustra. Everything that is genius about that work is after the famous intro. 
Carmina Burana? Nice beginning and end...but the filling in the sandwich is far tastier! Possible a thread on its own right there!


----------



## Op.123

DrMike said:


> Brahms' piano concertos.


What! No! You _can't_ say that! Are you out of your mind!

:lol:


----------



## TresPicos

tempo said:


> ...
> Hilarious, really. I'm inclined to think that this has either been said for pure effect or said by someone who's not really listened to the late Quartets properly or by someone who's not good at selecting adjectives.
> ...


Or by someone who has listened to them properly and found them to be dry...


----------



## Op.123

Brahms - 2nd Symphony


----------



## tempo

TresPicos said:


> Or by someone who has listened to them properly and found them to be dry...


And if you believe that you'll believe anything.

Sorry, but what does ''they're dry'' even mean? Do you know? I certainly don't.

If you don't like LvB's late quartets - widely viewed as among the great achievements of musical composition - do you actually like classical music? I mean, what string quartets DO you like, if you don't like these?


----------



## KenOC

C'mon now, calling Beethoven's late quartets "dry" isn't exactly sacrilege! And didn't a very famous composer call them "uncorrected horrors"? :lol:


----------



## Mahlerian

tempo said:


> And if you believe that you'll believe anything.


I believe that different people experience things differently. Does that make me gullible?



tempo said:


> Sorry, but what does ''they're dry'' even mean? Do you know? I certainly don't.


Generally, people use the word to mean that something may be of academic or abstract interest, but not of much interest to them personally as they normally enjoy music. Something that seems uninviting and arid, overall an off-putting thing to experience.



tempo said:


> If you don't like LvB's late quartets - widely viewed as among the great achievements of musical composition - do you actually like classical music? I mean, what string quartets DO you like, if you don't like these?


Perhaps he likes the earlier Beethoven quartets? Is it inconceivable that one can enjoy some things and not others? That one does not enjoy everything that is viewed as great (I am sure you do not) simply shows that, like everyone else, that person has individual taste.


----------



## hpowders

tempo said:


> And if you believe that you'll believe anything.
> 
> Sorry, but what does ''they're dry'' even mean? Do you know? I certainly don't.
> 
> If you don't like LvB's late quartets - widely viewed as among the great achievements of musical composition - *do you actually* *like classical music? *I mean, what string quartets DO you like, if you don't like these?


Whatever happened to tolerance for folks who have different viewpoints from your own?


----------



## hpowders

For me it's Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. The second movement scherzo with its machine gun rhythms gives me a headache and the finale is mass hysteria set to music.

Beethoven should have published the first movement as a separate work, perhaps as "The Sorcerer's First Apprentice".

For the record, I *LOVE *classical music. If you love this work, fine. Enjoy it! :tiphat:


----------



## tempo

hpowders said:


> For me it's Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. The third movement scherzo with its machine gun rhythms gives me a headache and the finale is mass hysteria set to music.
> 
> Beethoven should have published the first movement as a separate work, perhaps as "The Sorcerer's First Apprentice".
> 
> For the record, I *LOVE *classical music. If you love this work, fine. Enjoy it! :tiphat:


The scherzo is the SECOND movement.


----------



## tempo

hpowders said:


> Whatever happened to tolerance for folks who have different viewpoints from your own?


Sorry, but of all the things to say you don't like, let alone describe as ''dry'', the late string quartets by Beethoven strikes me as a thoroughly bizarre choice.


----------



## KenOC

hpowders said:


> For me it's Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. The third movement scherzo with its machine gun rhythms gives me a headache and the finale is mass hysteria set to music.


Maybe you should give it another listen. I understand that they've moved the scherzo...


----------



## tempo

KenOC said:


> Maybe you should give it another listen. I understand that they've moved the scherzo...


Yes, a work you dislike so much you're not even sure when the bit you hate actually occurs.


----------



## Mister Man

tempo said:


> Brilliant example of what I said in my previous post in this thread. Beethoven's late String Quartets are "dry"??!?!?
> 
> Hilarious, really. I'm inclined to think that this has either been said for pure effect or said by someone who's not really listened to the late Quartets properly or by someone who's not good at selecting adjectives.
> 
> Dislike them, by all means, but to call them "dry" is daft, at least without further explanation of what you mean.


I don't need to explain myself. Since "dry" is such an offensive adjective, I've reassessed the late quartets in your honor.

They are the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire.


----------



## tempo

Mister Man said:


> I don't need to explain myself. Since "dry" is such an offensive adjective, I've reassessed the late quartets in your honor.
> 
> They are the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire.


Offensive? No.

Imprecise and therefore meaningless? Yes.

_"the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire"_

Is English your first language, may I ask? Only this doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense. Again.


----------



## KenOC

tempo said:


> _"the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire"_
> 
> Is English your first language, may I ask? Only this doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense. Again.


It may help to have a strong visual imagination. Or perhaps it's better not to...


----------



## Mister Man

tempo said:


> Offensive? No.
> 
> Imprecise and therefore meaningless? Yes.
> 
> _"the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire"_
> 
> Is English your first language, may I ask? Only this doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense. Again.


Yes, it does make sense, if English is your first language.

I don't need to reaffirm your musical tastes by elaborating on what I mean by "dry". Beethoven's late quartets are dry, concluded.

What I actually mean has no bearing on your listening.


----------



## tempo

Ok, I'm going to back down and quite arguing on this one. I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets are of no value. Still, takes all sorts, I guess...


----------



## hpowders

tempo said:


> The scherzo is the SECOND movement.


Yes. Shows how much time I've spent avoiding the work. 

I went back and corrected it, thanks.

My proofreader is off on Sundays.


----------



## violadude

Mister Man said:


> They are the festering dreg uncomfortably caked between the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire.


I think they are spattered at the very end of the posterior of Beethoven's repertoire, actually.


----------



## violadude

tempo said:


> Ok, I'm going to back down and quite arguing on this one. I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets are of no value. Still, takes all sorts, I guess...


If you it makes you feel any better, I don't get it either. But to each their own I guess (when it comes to music, at least).


----------



## tempo

To Mister Man and violadude - if you can't cope with Beethoven's (largely magnificent) late string quartets, may I ask which string quartets you actually DO like? I'm curious.


----------



## hpowders

tempo said:


> Sorry, but of all the things to say you don't like, let alone describe as ''dry'', the late string quartets by Beethoven strikes me as a thoroughly bizarre choice.


Well, perhaps he likes the Bartok quartets more than Beethoven's. He wouldn't be alone. Or maybe Haydn's quartets or Mozart's. Some folks may find the Beethoven quartets too long or too serious and don't have the concentration required to get the most out of them.

Not everyone follows the party line.

We are all different and thankfully, are free to listen to whatever we want, whenever we want.


----------



## violadude

tempo said:


> To Mister Man and violadude - if you can't cope with Beethoven's (largely magnificent) late string quartets, may I ask which string quartets you actually DO like? I'm curious.


No, I actually adore those quartets. I was simply correcting Mister Man's placement of them as "in the middle" of the late period rather than at the end.


----------



## Ingélou

(As we're on the subject of Beethoven, I interject a small aside: I don't like his Ecossaises for piano - they just aren't 'Ecossais' enough - no way!)


----------



## Mister Man

tempo said:


> Ok, I'm going to back down and quite arguing on this one. I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets are of no value. Still, takes all sorts, I guess...


I said they're dry. I didn't say they have no value.


> To Mister Man and violadude - if you can't cope with Beethoven's (largely magnificent) late string quartets, may I ask which string quartets you actually DO like? I'm curious.


I'm not a fan of string quartets in general. (added after Ingélou's Like)


----------



## tempo

Mister Man said:


> I said they're dry. I didn't say they have no value.


Sorry, you're right. Still have no idea what your point is though - but keep it to yourself, by all means.


----------



## tempo

hpowders said:


> Well, perhaps he likes the Bartok quartets more than Beethoven's. He wouldn't be alone. Or maybe Haydn's quartets or Mozart's. Some folks may find the Beethoven quartets too long or too serious and don't have the concentration required to get the most out of them.
> 
> Not everyone follows the party line.
> 
> We are all different and thankfully, are free to listen to whatever we want, whenever we want.


I wasn't aware there was a ''party line'' - I've just honestly never heard someone summarise LvB's late quartets negatively before.


----------



## KenOC

tempo said:


> I wasn't aware there was a ''party line'' - I've just honestly never heard someone summarise LvB's late quartets negatively before.


Actually I gave an example a bit earlier. Louis Spohr, certainly no slouch in the composing department, called the late quartets "indecipherable, uncorrected horrors." Many perfectly sane and rational people through the 19th century agreed.

But I suppose people were kind of dumb in those days, and we're much smarter now. Right? Or maybe it's simply that we've been assimilated by the Beethoven Borg!


----------



## violadude

KenOC said:


> Actually I gave an example a bit earlier. Louis Spohr, certainly no slouch in the composing department, called the late quartets "indecipherable, uncorrected horrors." Many perfectly sane and rational people through the 19th century agreed.


That's why Beethoven is Beethoven and Sphor is Sphor


----------



## tempo

KenOC said:


> Actually I gave an example a bit earlier. Louis Spohr, certainly no slouch in the composing department, called the late quartets "indecipherable, uncorrected horrors." Many perfectly sane and rational people through the 19th century agreed.
> 
> But I suppose people were kind of dumb in those days, and we're much smarter now. Right? Or maybe it's simply that we've been assimilated by the Beethoven Borg!


Oh, absolutely. These are the words that come to my mind when I hear this. 






I'd suggest that there's something rather contrary and therefore 'fashionable' about critiquing Beethoven's most oft-celebrated works. Rather like a pop critic bemoaning the work of the Beatles. It makes you look smart, right?


----------



## Rhombic

I am sorry, because this composer is one of my favourites, but, while not particularly disliking it, I don't really get into Borodin's Symphony #1. However, it is a curious fact that I enjoy all B minor symphonies that I have listened at least 3 times (for example: Borodin II, Lyapunov I and Lyatoshynsky III).


----------



## KenOC

violadude said:


> That's why Beethoven is Beethoven and Sphor is Sphor


Herr Spohr is wounded. Deeply wounded.


----------



## dgee

I have a number of these and I'll tell anybody who'll listen because it makes me feel important . But really, it's the wonders of individual taste!

Beethoven 6th Symphony and Schubert 9th Symphony especially - they just don't seem to have anything to say (although I also don't especially like the late Beethoven quartets)
Don Giovanni - the end is quite exciting but the rest is humdrum
Brahms PC 1 - as a big Brahms fan it's like hearing all the things Brahms dislikers hear 
Turangalila - like a big fake smile
Bartok's Cantata Profana - don't dislike, but I don't get the fuss
Pulcinella - yawn


----------



## KenOC

tempo said:


> Oh, absolutely. These are the words that come to my mind when I hear this.


I quite agree with you. It's a shame that Spohr never got around to leaving us a corrected version. A bit more work by a proper composer and the Cavatina might have been quite listenable!


----------



## violadude

KenOC said:


> Herr Spohr is wounded. Deeply wounded.


I like Spohr. He was certainly a competent and skilled composer.

Is that better?


----------



## hpowders

tempo said:


> I wasn't aware there was a ''party line'' - I've just honestly never heard someone summarise LvB's late quartets negatively before.


 Except for Opus 135, I find the late quartets too long. I prefer Bartok, Haydn and Mozart for string quartets. Listen to the late Beethoven quartets all you want with my blessing.

Everybody's different. Tolerance, by the way, is a noble virtue.


----------



## TresPicos

tempo said:


> Ok, I'm going to back down and quite arguing on this one. I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets are of no value. Still, takes all sorts, I guess...


I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets must be loved by everyone, and that those who don't are freaks with an agenda.


----------



## hpowders

TresPicos said:


> I can't quite get my head around someone honestly thinking that these string quartets must be loved by everyone, and that those who don't are freaks with an agenda.


I prefer quite a few other string quartets to Beethoven's late and middle quartets; Bartok's 2-5, Mozart's Haydn and Prussian Quartets, Haydn's opus 76. I acknowledge the greatness of those Beethoven quartets, but they are not for me.


----------



## Vesteralen

I don't mind contributing to a thread like this one even though I'm disinclined to be negative about music for two reasons:

1) By the very nature of the thread, we are talking about FAVORITE composers and

2) I can't think of one time that I've ever been stopped from listening to something myself because someone else doesn't like it


have you?


----------



## Jordan Law

Hello,

I hate to say this, but I can not stand Beethoven. I think his music is quite dull yet there are some occasional pieces that are not too bad. I enjoy music that has a dramatic and ethereal flair. I am more of a lover of the romantic period


----------



## shangoyal

Out of the major and well-known compositions:

J.S. Bach - nothing! Everything which is famous is IMO, rightly so.

Beethoven - again, difficult. The 4th symphony is a piece I haven't been able to appreciate.

Mozart - the 20th piano concerto. It's not bad, just nothing special IMO, especially compared to Mozart's high points. I don't get dramatic Mozart that much.

Chopin - Nocturnes, Op. 32. The worst set of nocturnes he composed.


----------



## hpowders

I'd go with the Debussy Etudes; a tough nut to crack. His least accessible music, in my opinion.


----------



## Mahlerian

hpowders said:


> I'd go with the Debussy Etudes; a tough nut to crack. His least accessible music, in my opinion.


Not Jeux? That's the one I've heard cited most often as his most "difficult" work.


----------



## Andreas

Brahms, German Requiem. I want to like it, since I love Brahms dearly, but somehow it just sounds wrong to me. Has great moments, though. But overall, I don't like it.

Sibelius, 2nd Symphony. Sibelius at his most late romantic? Good thing that he abandoned that style. In his other works, I find, he manages to composer powerful music with much pathos and grandeur yet without this particular kind of bombast.


----------



## Piwikiwi

hpowders said:


> I'd go with the Debussy Etudes; a tough nut to crack. His least accessible music, in my opinion.


Those are my favorite!


----------



## QuietGuy

I'd have to say that Ravel's Sonata for Violin and Cello is my least favorite work of his. I enjoy his other chamber music, his orchestral works and his piano music ... just not the Sonata.


----------



## Bradius

Not crazy about Mahler's Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Sounds kind of lightweight & silly to me.


----------



## Mahlerian

Bradius said:


> Not crazy about Mahler's Des Knaben Wunderhorn. Sounds kind of lightweight & silly to me.


It's not "a" composition, though; it's a collection of song settings from over a decade's worth of Mahler's life. It covers a whole range of moods.


----------



## Avey

Interesting thread. Let us bring it back.

Admittedly, I have never been a fan of *Brahms'* Piano Concertos. On a quick check, I cannot think of another piece of his that I dislike. Those two, however, even after repeated listens, even live, have simply failed to pierce my figurative veil (of pleasure, or something like that). Real lack of dopamine.


----------



## Becca

Sibelius - Symphony #1 - I really like most of his works including the early ones such as Kullervo but for some reason, the 1st symphony just seems too much like Tchaikovsky

Wagner -_ Lohengrin_ - I don't know why but this is the one of his fully mature works that just never seems to have worked for me.


----------



## MoonlightSonata

I must confess - please don't kill me - that I am not exactly mad about Beethoven's _Eroica_.
I don't dislike it, I've just never really warmed to it.


----------



## Chronochromie

Beethoven's Cello sonatas, Messiaen's Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum, Bartok's Violin Concertos, Ravel's Bolero, Stravinsky's Ebony Concerto. As for Schubert and Debussy, I haven't found a work by them that I really disliked.


----------



## bharbeke

So far for Haydn, it's Symphony No 34. I found the Hogwood version of it to be boring and have not yet tried another version like Fischer or Dorati.

For Mozart, it's Violin Sonata No 11 (the Cooper/Podger version).

Still, both composers have pretty exceptional track records with me.


----------



## hpowders

Joseph Haydn's "Seasons" which I found a major disappointment after the inspired "Creation".


----------



## Woodduck

I'll take this to mean "least favorite _major_ works by favorite composers."

Beethoven: _Symphony #4_. Nothing wrong with it, don't hate it, just don't care. Also the _Choral Fantasy_.

Schubert: _Symphony #9._ Too long for its material, even without taking the repeats.

Brahms: _Liebeslieder Waltzes._ OK a few at a time, but if I want more than 5 minutes in waltz time I'll go for the Strausses (and I think Brahms would have agreed). Also the chamber music for strings only, much of which seems rather turgid and grumpy - odd, considering that I adore the chamber works for mixed ensembles. I can also live without his organ music.

Wagner: _Tannhauser._ If I have to listen to this opera, it has to be the Paris revision with the orgiastic Venusberg ballet. Basically I can't get into the title character's sexual obsession, or Elisabeth's saintly purity, or boy scout Wolfram and his incredibly dull and priggish Wartburg friends who can't come up with a single decent tune.

Sibelius:_ Symphony #2._ I love the first half but can do without the rest, Sibelius's two least interesting symphonic movements.

Vaughan Williams: _Symphonies #4, 6, 7_ and _9._ I just don't care for VW's bleaker moods.

Rachmaninoff: The string quartets. If he'd made them piano quintets they'd probably have morphed into something glorious like the _Cello Sonata_.


----------



## scratchgolf

Woodduck said:


> Schubert: _Symphony #9._ Too long for its material, even without taking the repeats.


How dare you, good sir? I hold you in the highest regards but a little piece of me just died inside after reading your post.


----------



## Woodduck

scratchgolf said:


> How dare you, good sir? I hold you in the highest regards but a little piece of me just died inside after reading your post.


The little piece will revive if you'll just sit still for 4'33."


----------



## scratchgolf

Woodduck said:


> The little piece will revive if you'll just sit still for 4'33."


Plus, a Wagnerite calling ANYTHING too long is like an alcoholic offering to be the designated driver, no?


----------



## hpowders

Mozart's Requiem 'cause it never got finished and because in contrast I get to see what hack composers are in comparison to Mozart, who attempt to complete it.


----------



## hpowders

Beethoven Second Piano Concerto-an uncharacteristically dull composition by the master.


----------



## Woodduck

scratchgolf said:


> Plus, a Wagnerite calling ANYTHING too long is like an alcoholic offering to be the designated driver, no?


One cannot imbibe too much of Liebestrank, vintage 1859.


----------



## hpowders

Mahler Second Symphony. Too much time wasted until the final glorious climax.


----------



## scratchgolf

Woodduck said:


> One cannot imbibe too much of Liebestrank, vintage 1859.


Perhaps not, but one can certainly try.


----------



## hpowders

William Schuman Symphony No. 9 "Le fosse Ardeatine"

Uncharacteristically unrelenting gloominess.

Instruction to Schuman: Perhaps modeling your symphony after a tragic Nazi massacre wasn't such a grand idea?


----------



## Woodduck

scratchgolf said:


> Perhaps not, but one can certainly try.


You're a hail fellow, Scratchgolf. Now we _must_ keep that dinner date.


----------



## DavidA

Beethoven Wellington's Victory. But the man had to eat so we'll excuse him.


----------



## hpowders

Vincent Persichetti Piano Sonata No. 11.

After the approachable, witty, tuneful piano sonatas preceding it, this one is a major disappointment for me. A very difficult listen.


----------



## Cosmos

Cosmos said:


> *Bach*: The Harpsichord Concertos. Nothing wrong with the music at all, I just don't care for the sound of the instrument, pared with baroque orchestral writing.


I am baffled that I said this! The Harpsichord Concertos are great, as well as the sound of the harpsichord


----------



## Janspe

Mahlerian said:


> Not Jeux? That's the one I've heard cited most often as his most "difficult" work.


Funnily enough, Jeux is the first orchestral work by Debussy which I discovered, so somehow I've never been able to see it as a difficult work - I like it quite a bit!

The études, on the other hand, rank among my favourite pieces for solo piano. Marvelous gems! Pity that they're so damn hard to play...


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## Weston

How did I miss this thread the couple or four times it's been revived? 

I can no longer say I have a favorite composer, but certainly Beethoven is still way up there. I'll second the votes for Wellington's Victory as his all time worst, with the Symphony No. 4 tied with Fidelio running a distant second. 

Honorable mention might go to Shostakovich's Suites for Jazz Orchestra, Nos. 1 and 2. What the heck are those all about?


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## hpowders

Charles Ives, Fourth Symphony.

I just don't get it and not for lack of trying.


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## hpowders

J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concertos. Sewing machine music, though admittedly, high quality music to sew by.

After encountering the Keyboard Partitas, Goldberg Variations, WTC and the B minor Mass, a disappointing letdown.


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## elgar's ghost

Weston said:


> How did I miss this thread the couple or four times it's been revived?
> 
> I can no longer say I have a favorite composer, but certainly Beethoven is still way up there. I'll second the votes for Wellington's Victory as his all time worst, with the Symphony No. 4 tied with Fidelio running a distant second.
> 
> Honorable mention might go to Shostakovich's Suites for Jazz Orchestra, Nos. 1 and 2. What the heck are those all about?


If there's one DSCH work I can't be doing with it's his third ballet, The Limpid Stream. The plot is dull (a ballet troupe visit a collective farm - don't stifle all of your yawns at once) and the music rarely rises above the mundane. It beggars belief that it was pilloried by Pravda as the simplistic nature of the work was the epitome of the sort of Socialist Realism in the arts that the Culture Commissars were espousing. My only theory is that they didn't dislike it at all but just picked on it to reinforce the lambasting that was given to the contemporaneous Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District.


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## DiesIraeCX

*Beethoven*:
_Symphony No. 4_, definitely not his strongest. It looks even worse being sandwiched by the monumental "Eroica" and 5th symphonies. Kinda like an average looking person standing in between two super models!
_Violin Concerto_, don't get me wrong, I do _like_ it, but it's just too long. I'm not the biggest fan of violin concerti in the first place. I do adore the slow movement, though.

As for Woodduck mentioning Schubert's 9th. I agree with the part about the repeats, then again, I think the same for Beethoven's 5th and 7th, no repeats please, thank you! Sorry scratchgolf, I'll crash that dinner party of yours, anyway! 

My least favorite Mahler symphony is the 8th. Probably because I compare it to _Das Lied von Der Erde_ and, well, the latter wins by quite a large margin.

My least favorite Brahms symphony is the 2nd, just doesn't do it for me like the 1st and 4th.


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## hpowders

Brahms Double Concerto. A disappointment after the two great piano concertos and violin concerto.

Too bad Brahms didn't write a cello concerto. Now THAT may have been grand!!


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## SixFootScowl

Für Elise (Beethoven).


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

Ravel's violin sonata....the various ceremonial pieces Wagner wrote.


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## isorhythm

Brahms' Violin Concerto...I love Brahms but have never been able to get into this piece at all.


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## Woodduck

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> Ravel's violin sonata....*the various ceremonial pieces Wagner wrote.*


Wagner agreed with you. He said the best thing about the _Philadelphia Centennial March_ (no kidding) was the money he got for it. We might presume it gave a boost to Sousa's ego.


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## Weston

DiesIraeVIX said:


> *Beethoven*:
> 
> _Violin Concerto_, don't get me wrong, I do _like_ it, but it's just too long. I'm not the biggest fan of violin concerti in the first place. I do adore the slow movement, though.


Ah, but the version for piano and orchestra, what I like to think of as the Piano Concerto No. 4 and a half, is nearly my favorite piano concerto. Simply beautiful through and through.


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## hpowders

Mozart Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

Save for the second movement Romanze, this is trivial Mozart.


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## hpowders

Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2.

Disappointing. Prokofiev was obviously straining to make a big, profound "look at me!!" concerto statement and IMHO, he failed because of too much bombast and not enough profundity.

He got it right with the terrific Third Piano Concerto.


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## Orfeo

Honesty I like* Beethoven's *Wellington's Victory a lot. Sure it is not his masterpiece, but it is a fun piece (one can even take it as a bit of a satire: his use Rule Britannia" and "God Save the King" for the British, and "Marlbrough s'en va-t-en guerre" for the French shows his usual ingenuity, not in the higher order, but it's there).

But more on topic: I'll pick *Tchaikovsky's* First Piano Concerto. It's a fine piece, but to me, it pales with his Second Concerto. As to *Shostakovich*, I'm kind of leaning to his Seventh Symphony as my least favorite of the symphonies. Yes, it's more substantial than his party-ladened though interesting 2nd and 3rd, but minus the first movement (a masterpiece in and of itself), this work meanders. I do love the coda though.


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## Vesteralen

Being a little less contrary than I used to be....

Since Brahms is at least _One_ of my favorites, I do have to say that I've never enjoyed the Violin Concerto much. I find the first two movements a bit tedious. I wake up a bit for the finale.

(Love the Piano Concertos, though.)


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## hpowders

Aaron Copland Connotations for Orchestra.

Come on Aaron! I'd rather have an Appalachian Spring part deux.


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## DiesIraeCX

Weston said:


> Ah, but the version for piano and orchestra, what I like to think of as the Piano Concerto No. 4 and a half, is nearly my favorite piano concerto. Simply beautiful through and through.


Wow, how have I not heard about this? And I call myself a Beethoven fan, shame on me! Thank Weston, I'm listening to it on YouTube right now (Barenboim, London). It was arranged by Beethoven himself, which is good to know. I don't think it'll supplant the 4th Piano Concerto as my favorite, but I'm enjoying it so far, even if I'm already very familiar with the orchestral parts because of the Violinkonzert.

Thanks again, Weston!


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## hpowders

D. Scarlatti, Keyboard Sonata #312. Could have been better.


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## Weston

^Ah yes, that one. 

Um, how does it go again?


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## Itullian

hpowders said:


> D. Scarlatti, Keyboard Sonata #312. Could have been better.


:lol:.........................................


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## hpowders

Weston said:


> ^Ah yes, that one.
> 
> Um, how does it go again?


Dah Dah....deedala deedala deedala deedala Dah Dah... (más o menos)

Scarlatti is wandering into that adventurous remote key of D Major, like for 193 times already?


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## hpowders

Stravinsky The Firebird. Stravinsky as Tchaikovsky doesn't work for me.


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## hpowders

Sibelius Tapiola.

What the heck was he thinking? This from the composer of the great, epic Seventh Symphony?


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## Oscarf

Most of this already mentioned by other posters

Ravel Bolero
Mahler symphony#8
Saint saens Carnival of the animals
Beethoven Wellingtons victory
Mozart Eine Kleine Nachtmusicke


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## violadude

hpowders said:


> Sibelius Tapiola.
> 
> What the heck was he thinking?


He was thinking "Man, some day, a guy going by the internet alias Violadude is going to LOVE this piece.".


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## Woodduck

violadude said:


> He was thinking "Man, some day, a guy going by the internet alias Violadude is going to LOVE this piece.".


:lol: This is the best post of the day. :tiphat:


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