# your thoughts on the protests in africa and middle east



## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

http://www.newser.com/tag/57087/1/libya-protests.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests

I have only recently began to tune into these events, and Im quite surprised with whats happening over there. From one successful revolt spread to over 20 nations in the continent and now alot of these nations peoples are protesting for democracy and end to tyranny and corruption (but there are other reasons as well)

the most bloody currently being libya, with estimates being as high as 10000 civilian deaths.

I just dont understand how these leaders have the nerve to order the army to fire on unarmed civilians, granted not all of them were unarmed (there were some cases with violence against police) but still i cant believe how reckless one can be to allow the slaying of your own nations peoples? and better yet with the help of a foreign nation as well?

if i had more links i would post them, but there everywhere, and its quite shocking to see what happens in the near future. My guess is that the eventually the entire continent will face a radical movement of protest against oppression, and make a bloody attempt at a reform for a true democracy (in their eyes)

thought id ask what other members thought about these events being undertaken?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Im very happy for the people that they are finding a means to express themselves and gain their freedom. Tunisia and Egypt both ended up (relatively) peacefully, and good reforms are being made.

Libya is completely shocking the manner in which Gaddafi has responded. When the 1973 SC resolution was accepted it was big relief, just hope it is effective.

I also very much hope this spreads until all the dictators in the region are gone. Weve seen/are seeing protests in:
Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Algeria, Mauritania, Sudan, Oman, Morocco, Lebanon, Palestine.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

Indeed, its growing and expanding, and thanks to sites like facebook and twitter large protests are organized very quickly, with youtube also exposing the realities of these protests as well.

It would be nice to see a brighter future for the continent, as theres been too much bloodshed and shady business conducted there for who knows how many centuries.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm afraid the Western/Arab League reaction will be too little too late since Gadhafi is smart enough to have survived in power for 4 decades, and his fake cease fire was a smart move to preempt the UN threats. What ultimately happens to him will have a huge impact on the form and fate of future protests in other nations. If he suffers significant losses under foreign military attack, is unsuccessful in turning this into martyrdom and cries that the imperialists want Libyan oil, and ends up ousted or killed, it will send a powerful message to other dictators that they should personally be better off by relinquishing power relatively peacefully like in Egypt rather than bloodily like in Libya. However if he succeeds in a prolonged strategy of attrition against the rebels and the UN, then this will embolden other dictators.

I look into the situation with some ambivalence and apprehension. While I am strongly for democracy and for the rights of the peoples in the region to self determination, I also fear the rise of extremist ideologies that could destabilize the region and the world.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Igneous01 said:


> I just dont understand how these leaders have the nerve to order the army to fire on unarmed civilians, granted not all of them were unarmed (there were some cases with violence against police) but still i cant believe how reckless one can be to allow the slaying of your own nations peoples?


It's not exactly a unique phenomenon. It's happened in the United States as well. Governments commit violence all the time.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I think 2011 might be ~ 1848. The revolutions by and large won't succeed, but the rulers have learned lessons, and their governments will be better. Democracy is coming to the Muslim world. 

The USA isn't going to like it, but we're losing the will and the ability to do anything about it; and if alternative energy tech advances far enough, we'll lose the motivation as well.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I think it still remains to be seen in which degree democracy and freedom actually introduce themselves in these countries, or wether an equally authoritarian (and perhaps more pro-muslim) regime installs itself.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

The Revolutions of 1848 didn't lead to democracy in Europe either, but they were a big step in that direction.


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## wingracer (Mar 7, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I look into the situation with some ambivalence and apprehension. While I am strongly for democracy and for the rights of the peoples in the region to self determination, I also fear the rise of extremist ideologies that could destabilize the region and the world.


Same here. Revolutions do not always bring more freedom, sometimes they bring less. Still, I wish them well.


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)

We were warned about this a few years ago, when it was said that a combination of the effects of peak oil, debt-driven economic crises, and climate change would lead to social unrest.

It will likely become worse due to increasing debt needed to solve problems due to increasing debt, a continued plateau in oil production leading to a drop by 2015, and the continued effects of climate change, including crop destruction.

This explains why we are seeing combinations of problems: high oil prices, high food prices, chronic unemployment, the threat of default due to sovereign debt, and unusual droughts, floods, and frost.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Ralfy said:


> We were warned about this a few years ago, when it was said that a combination of the effects of peak oil, debt-driven economic crises, and climate change would lead to social unrest.
> 
> It will likely become worse due to increasing debt needed to solve problems due to increasing debt, a continued plateau in oil production leading to a drop by 2015, and the continued effects of climate change, including crop destruction.
> 
> This explains why we are seeing combinations of problems: high oil prices, high food prices, chronic unemployment, the threat of default due to sovereign debt, and unusual droughts, floods, and frost.


I'm no expert on this, so I'm asking a genuine (naive?) question. Have we really reached peak oil? Just recently huge reserves were discovered in Brazil (pre-salt sea platforms) that are supposed to start flowing in about 9 years. Isn't it possible that similar new reserves will end up delaying peak oil significantly?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Basically, it all makes me think of this famous quote:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902) in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)




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## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Anyone who hasn't been elected into a position of power by the people they represent should be removed immediately. Anyone who has stayed in a position of power for more than five years without the approval of the people they represent should be removed immediately.


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