# How do you know if a Piece is too difficult?



## Davzon

Hi all, I just had a thought about piano pieces how do you know if the song you have chosen is too advanced ? should being able to play a bar a week good or is that really bad? cause I tend to just play both hands at the same time when I work things out, and I pay attention to the key and then look to see what's the lowest note then the highest to I can roughly get my hands in the right place. unless I'm doing it all wrong and I should just play a piece first with each hand separately. I find that I'm always reading music. I would just like to know what's a good time to finish a song, so like ermm.. Franz Schubert Impromptu in G flat op 90 no 3


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## Taggart

Basically, play hands separately to see where things are going. You want to minimise movement so your hands basically sit in place rather than jumping about. This helps to "chunk" a piece. When you have a run fingering, in general, should follow scale patterns which you should know. if you have "leaps" these can be practised separately so that you feel safe with them. Practice the "difficult" bits until you feel safe with them, but also work on the lead in and lead out so that it doesn't sound "choppy". When you put hands together,start off a lot slower until you get the coordination.

There's a list of pieces here based on the abrsm grades. You'll see that the Bach two part inventions come in about grade 5 which should allow you to compare things to your own standard.

Enjoy your playing.


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## Davzon

Thanks for the reply, yes jumping around isn't a good thing cause then I will lose my place. ya I will have to start of slow with anything but what I find is if I play faster I tense up and then my fingers hurt after, I have to say I do like that grade listing.


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## Taggart

The thing is not to play faster than you can think - i.e. follow the music easily. As you get the fingering right, then you can follow the music faster and the piece is bound to speed up. If you force it, you're struggling and that's where the tension comes in.

When you get a lot of extended chords , one trick to get the fingering is to play it as solid chords (with the correct fingering). I'm ignoring the flats for speed of typing here. The first few bars are basically a G chord in first inversion, then switching to an E chord in first inversion then an A chord. At the same time, you've got a D above this, held on with the pedal then a B then an A. So to get the shape, you can play it as D, pedal down, two lots of G chord in first inversion,change pedal,D, G chord in first inversion,change pedal, D, G chord in first inversion,change pedal, B two lots of E chord in first inversion,change pedal etc.

That way a) you get the shape of the fingers and b) you have a structure for learning the thing.

I'm sure we'll get hreichgott in on this cos she's much better than me.


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## PetrB

There is a general rule of thumb which applies all the way through your progress and development.

*If you cannot sight-read a piece at about 65% of the original tempo *(without a fair amount of the more normal --and brutal -- mistakes) *then the time it takes you to fully learn that piece is not the most efficient use of your time.* _(At later more advanced levels the expectation is to sight-read it at 90% tempo.)_

Efficient in learning has two senses: 
That *you can figure out, practice, and play a piece well after working on it for one, two, or three months maximum.* (At the very beginning, make that weeks, not months.)

Efficient in *what is accomplished to move you forward to greater ability and facility.*
Staying at the basic level of ability and building upon it, you get better in reading, sight-reading, a grasp on slightly more complex pieces (and more complex playing.) *The natural and most efficient progression is ione of many small steps. The skills are built upon many small things, and cumulatively. You progress steadily, but slowly.*

The fable of the Tortoise and the Hare is apt here: Slow and steady wins the race.

You read both hands at once - good. I'm old school: 
*if you cannot read and play the piece with both hands in the initial read through, and then practice it from that foundation, you shouldn't be working on it.* _(There is benefit, when needed, of practicing hands alone. There is no benefit initially learning hands apart.)_

*One measure a week, or per day, for learning just one piece (let alone one measure per week) is horribly inefficient and gains you nothing. The Schubert Impromptu is a good goal, but it is at present a goal for some years from now. … you have no real business tackling that at present.* A student player should be working on two or three pieces all the time, perhaps one to be finished in one or two weeks, the others a bit longer.

You sound like a very near beginning self-teaching pianist. The speed you work at now means you must go first to the very basics, and repertoire for those just beginning. Then you can, with work and patience, move progressively forward.

Try the Bartok Microcosmos, Books I, II and maybe the third book, some "Beginners Bach" -- a staple collection of shorter pieces for the early level player. The Bartok will train you to read both notes, rhythms, and is so well laid out it has pieces which set a keyboard range, then later, help you learn and get comfortable with shifting your hands to other areas of the keyboard. I think you need to, and must, start at the beginning.

"You can only start from where you are."

*A decent teacher, of course, is what sets you on the optimum course to play well, while offering you the most efficient (fastest) progress possible for you.*


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## hreichgott

Thanks for the vote of confidence Taggart. PetrB said most everything I would have said.
(I don't sight-read new repertoire at 90% tempo though. Just saying.)
I do think there is value in the occasional super-long-term piece -- but only if you really love the piece, won't get bored if it takes you 4 years to learn, and if you have other shorter-term repertoire you're learning in the meanwhile. 
Also I'm an old Suzuki kid (and teacher) and I value continuing to play repertoire long after you've finished learning it.


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## Davzon

Well I do try to play things slow at first and if I can't sight right both hands then I just workout the one hand. I have been learning really beginner pieces but I don't know what level they are, and they don't come up in the grade listing either. I can play them better much within a few days of cause the speed is slow but at least I can make my way through them. As I said before they are just simple songs. I have learned Chopin's Prelude op 28 no 20. but that again is just a small piece and of cause it's popular cause of Barry manilow using it in could it be magic. I have started learning Stride piano too purely cause I want to get better at playing the root note and then leaping to play chords. but I think the reason I pick some songs up quicker is cause I've heard them or they are familer, so i cause it's cheating and can't call it sight reading at all if you know roughly how they go.


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## maestro57

For me, I know it's a difficult piece when my wife says, "Sweetie, I mean this in the nicest way, but what the hell is that you're playing?"


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## Davzon

Well I have new light in the area, cause you always have to aim for harder pieces or you'll never improve but I guess if it takes you like a week to learn one bar then... maybe it's a bit too far ahead.. I mean I learnt this piece from a grade 5 book called Miniature in D minor, and I was able to learn if fast took me like maybe a day or two, sure I miss up in areas but for the most part of the piece it's sounding good. I have no idea what it's doing in a grade 5 piece 2011 to 2012, but saying that for most part of the piece your hands are crossed over each other..


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## Festus

"The thing is not to play faster than you can think - i.e. follow the music easily. As you get the fingering right, then you can follow the music faster and the piece is bound to speed up. If you force it, you're struggling and that's where the tension comes in."

This is probably the best advice I have heard regarding learning to play.
Thank you!


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