# Best Hammerklavier?



## Itullian

what's your pick?


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## kv466

This is a question I have not found any good answer to yet...it's also quite interesting, to me, that my two all time favorite pianists have both recorded it and I can't just jump out and say either is the best...I even have visions of unknown pianists I've seen perform it to other well-known and legendary names. I like different versions for different reasons and the best for me at this point is a mix of a bunch of different versions.


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## Manxfeeder

Like KV, I can't comment on the best. But as far as personally, I prefer Rudolph Serkin. The adagio sounds like the gradual breaking of a stiff upper lip.


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## Ukko

Manxfeeder said:


> Like KV, I can't comment on the best. But as far as personally, I prefer Rudolph Serkin. The adagio sounds like the gradual breaking of a stiff upper lip.


Yeah, that's Rudy.

There are probably umpteen fine performances. My favorite recording is by Beveridge Webster, and what makes it so is the adagio. The notes weave a spell, the warp and the woof gradually forming a pattern of deep contemplation - that the finale attempts to break in pieces. The strength of the best interpretations rests in how deep we have been taken, and how close to success - while failing - the fugue gets.

The last three sonatas would not be the miracles they are without the apotheosis achieved in 106.

[The 'take' that the finale is an enthusiastic acceptance of the adagio's 'conclusions' is certainly valid, but I like my version better]


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## Vaneyes

I have no idea, since I don't usually stay focused during it, for whatever reason(s). At the moment, I only have Pollini's. I've had or heard Gilels, Gould, Kovacevitch, Kempff, Schiff, probably others. I would like to hear Gulda's.


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## Taneyev

Cutner to me.


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## mleghorn

I like Rudolf Serkin. It's an epic and deep performance. The recording is somewhat dated. For a modern recording, I like Uchida. Uchida exhibits exceptional mastery of voicing and shading, and has technique to spare in the fugue.


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## Guest

Although he never recorded it, I understand that Lazar Berman's was amazingly powerful.


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## Guest

I don't know if it's "the best," whatever that actually means, but I certainly like the new one from Vestard Shimkus that arrived today. He displays enormous virtuosity as well as passion and imagination. Stunning multi-channel SACD sound, too. (He's also quite a composer: the opening piece is his own "EU Variations"--variations on the theme from Beethoven's 9th Symphony--even Volodos would be proud!)


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## Vaneyes

Kontrapunctus said:


> I don't know if it's "the best," whatever that actually means, but I certainly like the new one from Vestard Shimkus that arrived today. He displays enormous virtuosity as well as passion and imagination. Stunning multi-channel SACD sound, too. (He's also quite a composer: the opening piece is his own "EU Variations"--variations on the theme from Beethoven's 9th Symphony--even Volodos would be proud!)


Sampling, there's not much good in that recording. Below average interps and playing, with bright sound. Why anyone would want that in SACD staggers thinking.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Sampling, there's not much good in that recording. Below average interps and playing, with bright sound. Why anyone would want that in SACD staggers thinking.


Damn, I hate being wrong.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Surely a work like the _Hammerklavier _admits of so many equally valid interpretations that one should find oneself strongly liking several versions - say three or four. To insist that there is one best interpretation - even for any one listener - is attempting to impose an order which is simply nonexistent.


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## Guest

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Surely a work like the _Hammerklavier _admits of so many equally valid interpretations that one should find oneself strongly liking several versions - say three or four. To insist that there is one best interpretation - even for any one listener - is attempting to impose an order which is simply nonexistent.


Exactly. I can equally enjoy Shimkus', Ogdon's, Demidenko's, Gilels', Richter's, Pollini's...even Brendel's! (The live recording.)


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## UberB

Richter in Prague.

Makes even Pollini sound timid.


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## moody

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Surely a work like the _Hammerklavier _admits of so many equally valid interpretations that one should find oneself strongly liking several versions - say three or four. To insist that there is one best interpretation - even for any one listener - is attempting to impose an order which is simply nonexistent.


You are so right in what you say. I'm a newcomer but already I'm amazed by the silly claims made on this forum that this or this is THE GREATEST EVER, from what I read there is there is a sad lack of knowledge.
I doubt that there can be a "best" Hammerklavier" because these late sonatas are probably the pinnacle of pianism. They need a cerebral exponent to say the least/ Vastard Shimkuss looks very young and I don't think this is for young pianists but, on the other hand , I haven't heard him.
My favourites are: Artur Schnabel. Rec.1930's. It gives him a few problems at the speed he chooses, but it is noble.
The great Egon Petri, live recording from 1959 when he was 78 years old.
Charles Rosen, rec. 1970.
Wilhelm Kempff. rec. 1964.
somebody mentioned Gulda---that would be very interesting.


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## NightHawk

You have quite a collection - i'll bet the Kovacevich is very good. It is a long sonata 



Vaneyes said:


> I have no idea, since I don't usually stay focused during it, for whatever reason(s). At the moment, I only have Pollini's. I've had or heard Gilels, Gould, Kovacevitch, Kempff, Schiff, probably others. I would like to hear Gulda's.


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## moody

Odnoposoff said:


> Cutner to me.


There seems to be some confusion about this British pianists name. It was Solomon Cutner but he was always known only as Solomon on programmes, record sleeves,etc.


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## joen_cph

One pick:
- Yudina (vintage sound)

Five picks:
- *Yudina* (one of the most personal performances in existence)
- *Beveridge Webster *
(perhaps I should add that the sonata was also recorded by another Webster - Webster Aitken (live), one of the pianists (together with Beveridge Webster and Schnabel, to some extent Yudina, and maybe Petri, I don´t remember right now) who try to speed up the fast movements. But Aitken doesn´t have the technical fluency the others do, and the result is too awkward).
- *Kempff *stereo (a rather controlled performance, but an incredible Adagio with some true highlights)
- *Kovacevich* emi
- *Ernst Levy *; he is quite uneven, a Scherchen of the Piano (the Finale of the Appassionata being an example), but his Adagio is very moving. At 47mins, it is one of the broadest versions of the piece; Richter, Gilels and Gould are also rather slow. A competitor to Levy would be Gilels, for instance, IMO.


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## Ukko

NightHawk said:


> You have quite a collection - i'll bet the Kovacevich is very good. It is a long sonata


You have more, ah, congruity with Kovacevitch's interpretations than I do. Of the pianists _Vaneyes_ lists (I have heard only the Pollini and Gilels, I think), I would expect the most from Gilels, the least from Gulda - whom I have heard in other Beethoven sonatas. Gulda's interpretations tend to be fleet and shallow, and work well in their way until around Op. 33, and again in Op. 49 and 81a.

After Kovacevitch dropped the "Bishop", his playing seemed to me to become steely, rejecting the 'deeper' emotions along with the whimsy he may have been consciously targeting.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Charles Rosen - who is an eminent musicologist, of course (his book_ The classical style_ is a must read) - also turned in excellent performances of the last five Beethoven sonatas, including a very thoughtful and interesting _Hammerklavier _on CBS. It was already a reissue when I bought it in the early seventies.


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## Fiorentino

Of the 106s I've heard over the years, the one that sticks out to me is the live recording of Gilels from Moscow on 26 January 1984.


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## Ukko

Fiorentino said:


> Of the 106s I've heard over the years, the one that sticks out to me is the live recording of Gilels from Moscow on 26 January 1984.


Pretty sure I haven't heard it - but I would expect it to be very good. Any source for the CD that you know of?

[edit --Just noticed that this post is number 1898. That was the model year of the US military version of the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. Engraved in my memory as my first deer rifle, at age 11. Barrel cut back 6", and some of the wood removed.]


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## Fiorentino

Hilltroll72 said:


> Pretty sure I haven't heard it - but I would expect it to be very good. Any source for the CD that you know of?
> 
> [edit --Just noticed that this post is number 1898. That was the model year of the US military version of the Krag-Jorgensen rifle. Engraved in my memory as my first deer rifle, at age 11. Barrel cut back 6", and some of the wood removed.]


If I am not mistaken, it fills disc 4 of this set: http://www.amazon.com/Emil-Gilels-Plays-Beethoven-Box/dp/B000667FVA

Stupendous in its intensity and the grandeur of its conception (and a little rougher around the edges than his studio recording of the same year - though in no way does this detract!).


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## Ukko

Fiorentino said:


> If I am not mistaken, it fills disc 4 of this set: http://www.amazon.com/Emil-Gilels-Plays-Beethoven-Box/dp/B000667FVA
> 
> Stupendous in its intensity and the grandeur of its conception (and a little rougher around the edges than his studio recording of the same year - though in no way does this detract!).


Ordered it. There shouldn't be too many duplicates of performances I already have. I acquired a dozen or so Richter CDs of 'live in Russia' performances, and a few by Yudina, from an 'unauthorized' source (aka 'my man in Kiev'); but the guy apparently wasn't a Gilels admirer.

I hope the sound isn't _too_ bad.

Thanks for the heads-up; Gilels had a way with Beethoven.


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## Scarpia

I don't consider myself a great expert of recordings of the 32, but I have found Pollini's recording the most generally satisfying. The Gilels recording on DG is another that made an impression.


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## Ukko

Scarpia said:


> I don't consider myself a great expert of recordings of the 32, but I have found Pollini's recording the most generally satisfying. The Gilels recording on DG is another that made an impression.


Yes. For me, the 'point' (ref Rachmaninoff) is reached in the slow movement, not the finale. Fine musicians have demonstrated different ways of interpreting it. Some of them, e.g. Levy, seem to hear more in their heads than reaches their fingers. If the listener is simpatico enough, he hears those things too.


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## GGluek

Rosen's ca. 1970 recording was the one that first brought the slow movement into focus for me (after years of not getting it). If that works, the rest of the sonata works, regardless of how many notes are missed.


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## GrosseFugue

moody said:


> somebody mentioned Gulda---that would be very interesting.


I have the Gulda version! It's the one that's consistently in my iPod. His playing is just ferocious. I highly recommend it.
My personal favorite.


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## Ukko

GrosseFugue said:


> I have the Gulda version! It's the one that's consistently in my iPod. His playing is just ferocious. I highly recommend it.
> My personal favorite.


Gulda's Beethoven is quick, facile and light-hearted. Where that approach works, He is well worth hearing.


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## Scarpia

Hilltroll72 said:


> Yes. For me, the 'point' (ref Rachmaninoff) is reached in the slow movement, not the finale. Fine musicians have demonstrated different ways of interpreting it. Some of them, e.g. Levy, seem to hear more in their heads than reaches their fingers. If the listener is simpatico enough, he hears those things too.


I guess I feel like the odd man out on the Hammarklavier because the slow movement does not send me to transports of ecstasy. Same with the late quartets. The vigorous fast movements are, to me, the best music yet written, but the extended, meditative slow movements seem like too much of a good thing.


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## Ukko

Scarpia said:


> I guess I feel like the odd man out on the Hammarklavier because the slow movement does not send me to transports of ecstasy. Same with the late quartets. The vigorous fast movements are, to me, the best music yet written, but the extended, meditative slow movements seem like too much of a good thing.


 "Transports of ecstasy" are pretty rare. Getting bored in slow movements is not rare. I don't know how other folks get around that, but I usually kick back, follow the 'long line', and let the music work on my imagination. Somewhere around the fifth or sixth time I listened to 106, something floated into place. Don't remember who was playing.

Just a thought: can you handle '78' sound? If so, have you heard Schnabel's 106 a couple times? He doesn't mosey in the slow movement. Gulda is quick too, but I don't know if he gets deep enough for anything to grab you.


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## Scarpia

Hilltroll72 said:


> Just a thought: can you handle '78' sound? If so, have you heard Schnabel's 106 a couple times? He doesn't mosey in the slow movement. Gulda is quick too, but I don't know if he gets deep enough for anything to grab you.


I have the Schnabel set. I'm sure I've listened to his Hammerklavier, but I don't have any recollection of it. I think Pollini's recording is the one that has worked best for me, but I have a few sets on the shelf that I have only sparsely listened to. Recently got the Lortie set and maybe I'll dig out his Hammerklavier to see if the magic is there.


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## markgarm

Heartily agree with most suggestions so far . I'm partial to Kovacevich and Gilels for a large number of sonatas . But there's one pianist unmentioned so far I recommend as well - Claude Frank . Box set available and reasonably priced .


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## Bruce

I ran across this thread as I was looking for information regarding Beethoven's 29th sonata, and was interested in your response. If the slow movement doesn't "send you into transports of ecstasy," I was wondering if there were other slow movements, Beethoven's or others', which did? Any particular favorites?


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## merlinus

The Arietta of op. 111 is incredibly beautiful and moving.


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## merlinus

The last movements of Mahler's 2nd and 3rd symphonies, the Adagietto from the 5th, and the last movement of the 9th are others that are very emotionally moving.


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## hpowders

Best Hammerklavier I've ever heard is Annie Fischer on a Hungaraton CD.


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## Vaneyes

Pollini, Gulda, Schnabel.:tiphat:


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## Ukko

Somebody back there (maybe _Joen_) mentioned Beveridge Webster. The Dover LP may have been his only recording of it, and he isn't a Big Name anyway, but his slow movement holds together very well for me.


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## shadowdancer

Vaneyes said:


> Pollini, Gulda, Schnabel.:tiphat:


I would add Arrau here.


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## realdealblues

My picks would probably be...in no particular order.

Arrau, Solomon, Schnabel and both Serkin's, Rudolf & Peter.


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## Dan Hornby

The only one I own is Brendel's on Philips and it's a nice enough version for me!

Just listened to Gilels live in Moscow in 1984 though. The slow movement is 19.15 which is about right I think. He gives the piano a right bash in the opening movement though, sounds a bit overdone. Is he trying to wreck the thing?

Regarding Gilels, a few people have mentioned him as their favourite or "best Hammerklavier". I think his op.109 is the best I've heard so votes for Gilels seem fair enough. Yet to hear Gilels in studio version though.

The Guardian published their "definitive" Hammerklavier as being Gilels (DG 1983). Good old YouTube has it! There isn't the same bashing of the opening chords, which is definitely a positive in my book.

Listening to the opening movement he trumps Brendel and the adagio is stunning. 

Going to have to work out how I convince the wife I need a second set of Beethoven sonatas!


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## leroy

After listening to Andras Shiff's excellent lecture on op. 106 I started listening to alot of performances of the piece and so far I like Beveridge Webster's version the best. its too bad there is no remastered version available on cd.


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## Albert7

I am partial to the Gould recording but that is just my preference.


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## DavidA

There is obviously no definitive recording of this monumental piece. But recordings I have include:

Schnabel - out of his depth with the tempo he chooses for the first movement
Kempff - full of insights
Serkin - great Beethoven pkaying
Solomon - ditto
Richter live from the Festival Hall - takes no prisoners - they've all run off! Astounding!


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## JACE

The most convincing version that I've heard is Solomon's.

But there are many other "classic" versions that I've yet to hear!


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## leroy

Indeed Richter's festival performance is excellent, that is the one recorded in Blythburgh church correct? Solomon's is also excellent. I found this interesting German site that compares the average tempo of the Allegro excluding the ritardando and fermata measures. Schnabel's is the closest to Beethovens marked tempo at 131 and Solomon's is 112.5, I tend to enjoy the faster paced allegro's. They don't show the timing of Beveridge's version but I'm sure its up there with the faster ones, as he studied with Schnabel in Berlin as a teenager who was apparently very fastidious in following the metronome timing if Beethoven provided it.


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## hpowders

Check out the wonderful Vladimir Ashkenazy performance.


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## DiesIraeCX

I've heard three versions and I enjoyed them all, but it was Maurizio Pollini's that spoke to me the most! 

- Maurizio Pollini
- Wilhelm Kempff
- Sviatoslav Richter (on YouTube)


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## Guest

Igor Levit's new one is excellent. By the way, there is no "best"--just ones that some enjoy more than others!


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## KenOC

Kontrapunctus said:


> Igor Levit's new one is excellent. By the way, there is no "best"--just ones that some enjoy more than others!


Levit's is very good! Also Buchbinder's from his new Beethoven set. The Hammerklavier isn't really problematic IMO. Just choose the right tempi (the ones I like, that is), hit the right keys at the right times, add some nuance, and off you go! Really very simple. 

The next three, though, benefit from special handling.


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## Albert7

Uchida's recording of the Hammerklavier is pretty nice too: http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Opp-101-Hammerklavier/dp/B000RP4LDU

Cool beans! It's easy to find this recording on Philips.


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## DiesIraeCX

JACE, KenOC, and others, I have a question for you. Is there a pianist who excels in the _Hammerklavier_ Adagio the most to your ears? It doesn't necessarily have to be your favorite overall recording, similar to how my favorite overall LvB 9th is Karajan-1963, but my favorite 3rd Mvt Adagio is by Fricsay.


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## JACE

DiesIraeVIX said:


> JACE, KenOC, and others, I have a question for you. Is there a pianist who excels in the _Hammerklavier_ Adagio the most to your ears? It doesn't necessarily have to be your favorite overall recording, similar to how my favorite overall LvB 9th is Karajan-1963, but my favorite 3rd Mvt Adagio is by Fricsay.


I'd be hard-pressed to make that sort of call. Solomon's just works for me _as a whole_. It coheres in way that's bowls me over -- from beginning to end.

Sorry that I'm not any help on that front, DI.


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## DavidA

I also have Pollini's but seem to have mislaid it. A very highly rated performance!


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## DavidA

leroy said:


> Indeed Richter's festival performance is excellent, that is the one recorded in Blythburgh church correct? Solomon's is also excellent. I found this interesting German site that compares the average tempo of the Allegro excluding the ritardando and fermata measures. Schnabel's is the closest to Beethovens marked tempo at 131 and Solomon's is 112.5, I tend to enjoy the faster paced allegro's. They don't show the timing of Beveridge's version but I'm sure its up there with the faster ones, as he studied with Schnabel in Berlin as a teenager who was apparently very fastidious in following the metronome timing if Beethoven provided it.


The problem with Schnabel's is that his technique isn't really up to the tempo he chooses. Charles Rosen chooses a similar tempo but has a rock solid technique


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## Woodduck

Scarpia said:


> I guess I feel like the odd man out on the Hammarklavier because the slow movement does not send me to transports of ecstasy. Same with the late quartets. The vigorous fast movements are, to me, the best music yet written, but the extended, meditative slow movements seem like too much of a good thing.


Interesting. The slow movements of the quartets have never felt too long or less than wonderful to me, but the adagio of the _Hammerklavier_ has always given me trouble. The opening theme seems a bit blah, less striking than Beethoven's themes usually are, and he takes so long to bring it back in a basic form, after prolonged and complicated excursions far more arresting than the theme itself, that I get a feeling which no other movement in all of Beethoven ever induces: a feeling of rambling. When I look at the score I can see clearly enough what he's up to, but it doesn't quite convince me when I listen to it. I've been wondering for decades if anyone else feels this way, or if I'm jut missing a few brain cells somewhere - the "Hammerklavier neurons," wherever they might be located.


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## DiesIraeCX

Woodduck said:


> Interesting. The slow movements of the quartets have never felt too long or less than wonderful to me, but the adagio of the _Hammerklavier_ has always given me trouble. The opening theme seems a bit blah, less striking than Beethoven's themes usually are, and he takes so long to bring it back in a basic form, after prolonged and complicated excursions far more arresting than the theme itself, that I get a feeling which no other movement in all of Beethoven ever induces: a feeling of rambling. When I look at the score I can see clearly enough what he's up to, but it doesn't quite convince me when I listen to it. I've been wondering for decades if anyone else feels this way, or if I'm jut missing a few brain cells somewhere - the "Hammerklavier neurons," wherever they might be located.


Te absolvo a peccatis tuis 
in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.

No, I understand what you mean. I _still_ get a sense of "rambling" as you speak. That said, it moves me deeply and is among my favorite Adagios. I take the rambling as part of it, as if he were sitting at the piano writing down whatever popped into his head, to hell with continuity! 

PS. I have only recently warmed up to solo piano music, I avoided LvB's piano sonatas for over a year.  But what a mistake that was. Now, I consider them _almost_ as vital to my listening experience as the Quartets.


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## Woodduck

DiesIraeVIX said:


> Te absolvo a peccatis tuis
> in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti.
> 
> No, I understand what you mean. I _still_ get a sense of "rambling" as you speak. That said, it moves me deeply and is among my favorite Adagios. I take the "rambling" as part of it, as if he were sitting at the piano writing down whatever popped into his head, the hell with continuity!
> 
> PS. I have only recently warmed up to solo piano music, I avoided LvB's piano sonatas for over a year.  But what a mistake that was. Now, I consider them _almost_ as vital to my listening experience as the Quartets.


Well, I don't feel quite so lonely now.

Yes, the Beethoven piano sonatas were his laboratory. One surprise after another.


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## KenOC

The Hammerklavier occupies an interesting place in Beethoven's creative life, or so it seems to me. He had written nothing that was "big and important" for several years -- just some smaller works of highest quality, like the Op. 101 piano sonata and the Op. 102 cello sonatas, and a whole bunch of potboiler arrangements and variations on folk songs for the London market. Some of which, in fact, are pretty darned good -- but not the stuff of greatness.

Whatever the logjam was, the Hammer broke it up. He was back in business, and in a very big way. However he did it, he had reinvented music -- again.


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## DiesIraeCX

KenOC said:


> The Hammerklavier occupies an interesting place in Beethoven's creative life, or so it seems to me. He had written nothing that was "big and important" for several years -- just some smaller works of highest quality, like the Op. 101 piano sonata and the Op. 102 cello sonatas, and a whole bunch of potboiler arrangements and variations on folk songs for the London market. Some of which, in fact, are pretty darned good -- but not the stuff of greatness.
> 
> Whatever the logjam was, the Hammer broke it up. He was back in business, and in a very big way. However he did it, he had reinvented music -- again.


KenOC, as always, I appreciate your accounts of LvB. They always make me want to read the biographies again (Thayers/Suchet). But then I realize there just isn't enough time in the day. :-/

I also agree with you on the Op. 102 cello sonatas being of the highest quality, No. 4 should be at least ten times more popular than it is. I've been listening to often, as of late.


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## KenOC

DiesIraeVIX said:


> I also agree with you on the Op. 102 cello sonatas being of the highest quality, No. 4 should be at least ten times more popular than it is. I've been listening to often, as of late.


I've been surprised at how many people don't particularly like the cello sonatas, or find them uninteresting. I personally love them and have several sets -- never heard a bad performance! Makes me a bit peeved that Ludwig never wrote a cello concerto. Never even started one or even intended one, so far as I know.


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## Albert7

KenOC said:


> I've been surprised at how many people don't particularly like the cello sonatas, or find them uninteresting. I personally love them and have several sets -- never heard a bad performance! Makes me a bit peeved that Ludwig never wrote a cello concerto. Never even started one or even intended one, so far as I know.


Beethoven's Triple Concerto is as close as get to a cello concerto. Sadly enough, not his strongest work.


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## Ukko

Woodduck said:


> Interesting. The slow movements of the quartets have never felt too long or less than wonderful to me, but the adagio of the _Hammerklavier_ has always given me trouble. The opening theme seems a bit blah, less striking than Beethoven's themes usually are, and he takes so long to bring it back in a basic form, after prolonged and complicated excursions far more arresting than the theme itself, that I get a feeling which no other movement in all of Beethoven ever induces: a feeling of rambling. When I look at the score I can see clearly enough what he's up to, but it doesn't quite convince me when I listen to it. I've been wondering for decades if anyone else feels this way, or if I'm jut missing a few brain cells somewhere - the "Hammerklavier neurons," wherever they might be located.


Long ago, when the world and I were young, that adagio didn't work for me either - and I didn't have your 'thinking about it' malady to contend with. It was the 3rd or 4th time I listened to Webster's recording when the music worked. The adagio has to work you see, before the finale can. Hell, the whole sonata has to work before it can fulfill its mission.


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## leroy

Anyone have any thoughts on John Ogdon's rendition?


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## Guest

leroy said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on John Ogdon's rendition?


It's very good IMHO. I was expecting something a bit more thunderous, not that he shortchanges the drama at all, but it's still quite powerful. The crushingly difficult fugue poses no problems for him. The remastering sounds good, if a little light in the bass.


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## satoru

May add one more interpretation? It's by Mitsuko Uchida. A clean and clear performance.

Mitusko Uchida - Hammerklavier (on YouTube)


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## Blancrocher

KenOC said:


> I've been surprised at how many people don't particularly like the cello sonatas, or find them uninteresting. I personally love them and have several sets -- never heard a bad performance! Makes me a bit peeved that Ludwig never wrote a cello concerto. Never even started one or even intended one, so far as I know.


Perhaps because it's pretty hard to dominate a cello concerto with the piano accompaniment :lol:

As to the thread's topic, I'll put in another vote for Charles Rosen's performance, which is now available on Spotify for anyone who would like to sample it. Rosen admitted that this recording took a lot of time and editing in the studio, not that you'd ever know it.

I'm glad to have Rosen's full discography easily available again, btw, though I'm sorry it took his death for that to happen. His mind didn't seem to be slowing down even if his fingers had.


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## Ukko

Blancrocher said:


> Perhaps because it's pretty hard to dominate a cello concerto with the piano accompaniment :lol:
> 
> As to the thread's topic, I'll put in another vote for Charles Rosen's performance, which is now available on Spotify for anyone who would like to sample it. Rosen admitted that this recording took a lot of time and editing in the studio, not that you'd ever know it.
> 
> I'm glad to have Rosen's full discography easily available again, btw, though I'm sorry it took his death for that to happen. His mind didn't seem to be slowing down even if his fingers had.


The legend has it that Beethoven was concerned about the cello dominating the pianos of the time. Times and pianos have changed.

One of my 'friends never met', David Gable, is an ardent Rosen disciple. His take of the late years agrees with yours. From a greater distance, I thought his mind was running in deeper grooves.


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## Albert7

satoru said:


> May add one more interpretation? It's by Mitsuko Uchida. A clean and clear performance.
> 
> Mitusko Uchida - Hammerklavier (on YouTube)


I have this version on CD and it's just purely lovely.


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## DavidA

leroy said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on John Ogdon's rendition?


I have it. Pretty good! The technique is staggering!


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## Albert7

Wishing that Grimaud would have recorded this masterpiece.


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## Mandryka

leroy said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on John Ogdon's rendition?


Dissappointing.


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## jdscheepers

*Almost all pianists play the Hammerklavier too slowly*

Most pianists ignore Beethoven's tempo markings for the Hammerklavier. They think this is incorrect because the markings are way too fast, therefore Beethoven's metronome was malfunctioning, making the metronome markings wrong and the sonata unplayable at that speed. This is not the case.

I encourage you to listen to Andras Schiff's lecture about this sonata (and all the other sonatas). Schiff says about this, after having examined the metronome in question: "... I could have Beethoven's metronome in my hands, and I swear to God that it works".

I have long thought that the third movement is way too slow, with some recordings/performances lasting close to 30 minutes. As Schiff says: "This is a huge movement, it takes more than a quarter of an hour to play, but in Beethoven's wonderful tempo [92 to the quaver] it flows. It does not stop all the time, it does not fall to bits and pieces. Usually, great pianists of the past and present play this in a very... [he plays it like it is played usually, painfully slowly]... oh, we are very deep and profound, no? You can have lunch and dinner and breakfast. We are still sitting here. All I'm saying is that Beethoven was a very, very great, one of the greatest composers. If he writes something like metronome marks, if he takes the trouble, let's take him very seriously. At least give it a try. Let's not just say that it's wrong. It's wrong to try to be more clever than the composer."

Anyway. There is (relatively) obscure pianist named Paul Badura-Skoda who made good recordings of the hammerklavier on a period Broadwood 181X, and of course Schiff's recording is excellent.


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## chesapeake bay

You should listen to Beveridge Websters account if you like it fast, only available on LP but well worth the effort.


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## fluteman

Itullian said:


> what's your pick?


I learned a lot from the Backhaus Hammerklavier. Great integrity and insight, but early 50s mono only. He died before getting to it in his 60s stereo cycle.


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## Barbebleu

I'm a great fan of Beethoven's Hammerklavier. :lol:


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## Bulldog

Albert7 said:


> Beethoven's Triple Concerto is as close as get to a cello concerto. Sadly enough, not his strongest work.


I find it strong enough to give me a few hours of high enjoyment every year.:tiphat:


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## hpowders

Annie Fischer. In fact her complete 32 Beethoven Keyboard Sonatas is superb.

As a very fine HIP alternative, check out Ronald Brautigam on fortepiano, modeled on one Beethoven would have played.


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## Ukko

hpowders said:


> Annie Fischer. In fact her complete 32 Beethoven Keyboard Sonatas is superb.
> 
> As a very fine HIP alternative, check out Ronald Brautigam on fortepiano, modeled on one Beethoven would have played.


Peter Serkin also recorded Op.106 on I think, a Broadwood. Not the same piano he used for 109-111 anyway.


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## damianjb1

I'm listening to Gilels as I type. I'm just discovering this piece. I can't believe what I've been missing.


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## Ukko

damianjb1 said:


> I'm listening to Gilels as I type. I'm just discovering this piece. I can't believe what I've been missing.


By typing while listening, you are still missing.


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## hpowders

The best are by Rudolf Serkin and Annie Fischer.


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## jpar3

Itullian said:


> what's your pick?


Barenboim is very good in the late LVB sonatas


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## premont

fluteman said:


> I learned a lot from the Backhaus Hammerklavier. Great integrity and insight, but early 50s mono only. He died before getting to it in his 60s stereo cycle.


There are three excellent live recordings by Backhaus from the 1950es (also mono).


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## premont

hpowders said:


> The best are by Rudolf Serkin and Annie Fischer.


Yes, Rudolf Serkin in particular.


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## Konsgaard

So many to choose from:

Gulda, Serkin, Perahia, Goode would be my top picks.

Gulda is ferocious as someone posted in here, and so is Goode who excels in all sonatas. Serkin and Perahia have the right balance in all movements and bring out the structure of the piece. 

For more sentiment in the slow movement, it is hard to beat Barenboim (either EMI or DG). 

Kovacevich offers a cooler approach but impressive nonetheless. So does Pollini.

But it is such a complex work that it is impossible to pick just one. The new Perahia is really good, but then again so is Goode, and I really like Gulda's animated tempi.


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## chill782002

My favourite is Alfred Brendel's 1957 recording. Astonishing to think that he was so young at the time.


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## premont

chill782002 said:


> My favourite is Alfred Brendel's 1957 recording. Astonishing to think that he was so young at the time.


Could you provide a link to this recording? If 1957 is correct, it predates the recording he made for Vox, which, as far as I know, dates from about 1963.


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## chill782002

This is it, 1957 is given as the recording date on the back although I don't know if it's correct or not.


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## premont

chill782002 said:


> View attachment 105220
> 
> 
> This is it, 1957 is given as the recording date on the back although I don't know if it's correct or not.


Tuxedo released several Vox recordings, so this is almost certainly the Vox recording from 1963. I also do like it, finding it more stringent than his later Philips recordings.

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/labels/1438/browse


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## chill782002

premont said:


> Tuxedo released several Vox recordings, so this is almost certainly the Vox recording from 1963. I also do like it, finding it more stringent than his later Philips recordings.
> 
> https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/labels/1438/browse


Thanks for the info, appreciate it. I'll see if I can track down a copy of the Vox 1963 recording and check.


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## premont

chill782002 said:


> Thanks for the info, appreciate it. I'll see if I can track down a copy of the Vox 1963 recording and check.


If you can't, then send me a PM, and I shall upload it to you.


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## ClassicalMaestro

Sviatoslav Richter Prague Summer of 1975


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## Highwayman

Serkin, Arrau, Gilels, Slava, Horszowski, Annie Fischer, Levit, Badura-Skoda I like them all and some others.

But there is only one that I love and that is Kempff!

It is true that Kempff has not the perfect technique and I would probably choose one from the listed above for the outer movements. But his unique, delicate sound and insightful interpretation on the great _adagio_ wins me every time. His _scherzo_ is also very special. Almost everyone besides him plays it as a mere _intermezzo_.

All of his recordings are great and I love the broadcast from 64 but my favourite is the one from his 65 stereo cycle for DG.


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