# Plastic Surgery



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Where do we draw the line between medical necessity and cosmetic vanity? I read a peculiar article in the Guardian this week stating that the surgery undertaken by a man who was severely disfigured by a gun accident is "miraculous" but simultaneously undermines diversity.

His issue seemed to be less about the operation itself, which he implicitly conceded was necessary, but about its media representation, specifically because of the visual aspect - of before and after images; a man deformed bereft of worth, his humanity restored along with his face. I think this is rather hyperbolic - it was fundamentally a treatment for the sake of a person's appearance, so providing images is natural, not superficial. I also think it's silly to claim that restoring the face of a severely disfigured man counts as using medical techniques to dull diversity. It's also not the beginning of a slippery slope (the writer stated that cosmetic surgery is already accepted as normal for healthy people, but I don't think it is that widely accepted).

It seems obvious to me that there is a range of natural differences to be left alone and appreciated - with widely-regarded "ugly" features needing to be much less stigmatised than they are today - and physical disfigurements that are worthy of plastic surgery. I think our responses to disfigurement are not just conditioned, they are instinctive, so an idealist, intellectual approach to looking only at someone's "inner" beauty is naive and hopeless.

What do you think?


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

It's come a long way, plastic surgery has...but what's wrong with functionality, rather than facsimile or fake smile?

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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I saw that you'd replied and knew instantly what I'd be in for. Do you use TC as a testing ground for stand-up material? I don't think I've seen a post by you that isn't a one-liner!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Yeah, the whole inner beauty stuff is a bit whatever, but on the other hand a lot of people who go to get plastic surgery have minds I'd never be attracted to. I think there is bit of a problem when I see a lot of people under the assumption that they aren't "normal". I know a lot of foreigners, and I know a lot that attempt to be an average American Caucasian because their nose "isn't normal" or something like that. I find this an absurd attitude and it annoys me when people focus so heavily on those things. Majority of plastic surgery is entirely unnecessary and is a lot of it is done really because the person has some mental issue, and that is something the plastic surgery cannot fix.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> Yeah, the whole inner beauty stuff is a bit whatever, but on the other hand a lot of people who go to get plastic surgery have minds I'd never be attracted to. I think there is bit of a problem when I see a lot of people under the assumption that they aren't "normal". I know a lot of foreigners, and I know a lot that attempt to be an average American Caucasian because their nose "isn't normal" or something like that. I find this an absurd attitude and it annoys me when people focus so heavily on those things. Majority of plastic surgery is entirely unnecessary and is a lot of it is done really because the person has some mental issue, and that is something the plastic surgery cannot fix.


What's your take on deformity? Do you think that people with deformities should embrace their difference and push for a world that doesn't care?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

It depends on what you define as deformity. Some patients that undergo a deformity from an outward action are well-served by plastic/reconstruction surgery. It can be very traumatizing for someone and it does help ease that. In the case of the man in the OP, then yes I think he is well-served by plastic surgery. It can be a useful tool that we shouldn't completely shun. It would be far too difficult to embrace traumatizing deformities for both the populace and the one who is deformed on a broad scale. As you stated, this would not dull diversity and that is silly. Diversity comes from genes and traumatizing events certainly do not. Having said that, I've known people with little things they classified as a "deformity" such as a slightly bent foot. I don't see the purpose in having it worked on when it is hardly noticeable and is no danger to them medically. These little types of "deformities" I see as pointless in looking at them as so. By undergoing reconstruction surgery you are causing yourself pain and opening yourself up to actual potential medical issues, as well as spending a lot of money for the process. 

That is my opinion on the spectrum.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I'll give $/€/£1 to anyone who can find a picture of a successful cosmetic surgery.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

my thoughts:

their is beauty in the ugliness and the flaws,

good thing no one attempted plastic surgery to Beethovens Grosse Fugue!


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

Cnote11 said:


> Yeah, the whole inner beauty stuff is a bit whatever, but on the other hand a lot of people who go to get plastic surgery have minds I'd never be attracted to.


How many people would that be?

I see it somewhat differently. Plastic surgery is not only about cosmetics and appearance. Plastic surgeons:

- treat burns victims
- remove skin cancers
- reattach severed fingers
- repair skin injuries (e.g. I recently saw a patient who had half his face torn off in an accident - it is called a "degloving injury" because the skin comes off like a glove)

Plastic surgeons have an undeserved reputation as Porsche driving playboys who make a living from women with low self-esteem. But - I remember my lecture from years ago from a plastic surgeon about what to do when a woman comes to you for a breast job. "Ask yourself if her problem is with her breast or with her head. Ask yourself what her real agenda is", he said. "Otherwise you will be submitting her to the risk of an operation, and the anaesthetic risk, and you won't fix her problem. You should do everything you can to avoid surgery for this woman".


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I completely agree with you, as per my second post in this thread. The sad thing though is you have plenty of plastic surgeons who view it as a free choice an adult is able to make and don't fuss around outside of that.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

"I read a peculiar article in the Guardian this week stating that the surgery undertaken by a man who was severely disfigured by a gun accident is "miraculous" but simultaneously undermines diversity."

This is just stupid... People in that situation shouldn't have to bear the burden of being a walking billboard for deformity (or "facially challenged", whatever the new PC codeword is) awareness or whatever; whatever helps them personally cope is fine, and nobody should question it. These "diversity-minded progressives" can't see the forest for the trees.

At the same time, it's not black & white. I still see no problem in pushing for less marginalization for people who won't or can't undergo successful reconstruction. (How that is pushed is another matter--I won't pretend I don't usually find the execution preachy and offputting.)

As for cosmetic vanity, I don't really care, I was never interested in telling people what they can/can't do with their bodies. It's a personal dealbreaker for me though, because I think it indicates a lot of bad things about the person's personality, not to mention I'm not a fan of the "perfect" alien celebrity look.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

For the most part I just don't get the point. If it looks good, it's subtle, and if it's subtle then it probably wasn't worth the money. If the work isn't subtle, then it doesn't look good.

Then again, I'm biased because I was born the visage of aesthetic perfection (see avatar).


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