# Obscure impressionist composers: GO!



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I am planning on getting my grandfather some CDs as a present, but I'm not sure what to get for him. He is a big fan of Ravel and Debussy, so I was thinking of looking into lesser-known impressionist composers (he already has most of the major stuff). Any suggestions? This is one area that I am not well versed in at all lol!


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## palJacky (Nov 27, 2010)

unless it must be French, delius might be the ticket.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't call him "obscure", but he isn't listened to as often as most composers, I suppose. The composer I'm referring to is Federico Mompou. I'm not sure if he has his works yet, but I would recommend them.


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

I do not know if these are "oficially" impressionistic, but that's what I would recommend:

Erik Satie's piano works
Alberic Magnard's Promenades
Szymanowski's Mythes and Metopes
Perhaps some Charles Griffes' works?

Best regards, Dr


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I was going to suggest Frank Gorshin.


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

Try Cyril Scott ! The man is extraordinary...and prolific. He is considered the "Father of British modern music" by Eugene Goossens, and was quite popular in his time...(mostly because of his eccentric character and occult writings)


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Charles Griffes is perhaps one that is overlooked as well. I will second that recommendation.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I second Scott and third Griffes.

Also Respighi (Pini di Roma, Fontane di Roma), Falla (Nights in the gardens of Spain). Although these are not really obscure of course.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

If perhaps Cyril Scott, perhaps also Selim Palmgren?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Perhaps also some early Scriabin and some of Toru Takemitsu's works, although neither are obscure in any way.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> I second Scott and third Griffes.


I'll fourth Griffes. Look for The Pleasure Dome of Kubla Khan, The White Peacock, and Poem especially.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Florent Schmitt ('transitional' somewhat 'inbetween' styles composer)

Paul Dukas, of course ~ his Ballet 'La Peri'

Another in his own category, the prolific Charles Koechlin.
Try his orchestrated version of the sixteen piece piano suite, Les Heures Persanes.... wonderful music, quiet and subtle.













John Alden Carpenter ~ Adventures in a Perambulator













Deems Taylor ~ Through the Looking Glass [these links are of the premiere recording, you will want to find a performance with better audio, of course.]













By 'percentage' the Carpenter, then the Taylor, have a lot of 'earmarks' of the impressionist harmonic vocabulary, some of the gestures. To these ears, Debussy is the 'only' impressionist, Ravel a neoclassicist with some very Southern European sensuality in the fabric of the music.
Add: it seems general consensus is in agreement with what I have thought of -- re: 'Impressionism' as a pet peeve as to labels and style in music 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressionist_music
End Add.

There are, for many an 'average' listener, "all the rest of" Debussy and Ravel, the complete piano works, the chamber music, of which there is plenty on an equal footing with their larger and more overt orchestral pieces.

If available, the complete orchestral works of Debussy as recorded with The New Philharmonia orchestra, Boulez conducting, is a very fine gift; the first time Boulez recorded these, beautiful and intelligently led, are 'warmer' than his many years later second such recording. The complete piano music has been recorded by many, of which lately I found the remarkable musician pianist Monique Haas, I imagine available in a CD or CD set.

The complete piano music of Ravel, in what I would call an 'archive' set with still very fine audio, is available with Samson Francois, piano. The two piano concerti are also available with Francois playing - those now reissued on 'EMI.' There is also the 'vintage' very fine recording of 'Daphnis et Chloe' in a startlingly fine performance with the Boston Symphony, Charles Munch conducting.


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## AndorFoldes (Aug 25, 2012)

Get Dutilleux.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

DrKilroy said:


> Erik Satie's piano works


can't say this enough (particularly the Gymnopedies)


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

oogabooha said:


> can't say this enough (particularly the Gymnopedies)


Especially the ones orchestrated by Debussy himself.

There are a lot of good suggestions here. And one groaner (Vaneyes knows which one.)


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

Gabriel Pierné?
I don't know if he's considered obscure, but his chamber compositions, especially for the violin and piano are quite enjoyable, though very salon wise.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Pierné's Cello Sonata, Op. 46 is rather good, haven't heard much else from him though. Didn't get a particular impressionist vibe but maybe that's more evident in his orchestra work?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I´ll concentrate on other lesser known French/Belgian composers more related to the "impressionists" Debussy and Ravel:

*Jean Cras* has recently experienced a revival and deservedly so. Attractive music often describing nature and landscapes, such as Brittany - both orchestral and chamber. Can´t go wrong with him, I think.

Would also suggest *D´Indy* works, such as the "Symphonie Cevenole" for piano & orchestra

- *Gustave Samazeuilh*, *Rhene-Baton*, *Guy-Ropartz*, *Guillaume Lekeu*, *Deodat de Severac* (attractive piano music), *Maurice Emmanuel* (generally less captivating though) are some of the others, who wrote good chamber and piano music in particular.

This *Dukas* disc is very colourful and has a particuarly lively recording of his great, exotic ballet "La Peri" and the virtuoso "L´Apprenti Sorcier":








This one has a good compilation of piano trios by *Rhene-Baton and Guy-Ropartz*:








This one has some good piano works by *Samazeuilh*:








The Timpani label´s *Jean Cras* series have beautiful art work as well:


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

*Peggy Glanville-Hicks*, an Australian composer, has some works like this. Try her *Three Gymnopedies*. Can't find it on youtube though. There's obvious influence here from Satie, but also Ravel & Debussy, and Vaughan Williams who taught Glanville-Hicks (himself being taught briefly by Ravel).

*Villa-Lobos *has some French, incl. Impressionist type, influence in his music. He spent time in the 1920's and '30's in Paris. Try the work on the Naxos disc below, all of them sound to be a combination of French and Brazilian elements (except the duo for violin and viola, which comes across more as contrapuntal Germanic, like say HIndemith).










Another one is *Bax*, some of his tone poems do have this influence (esp. of Debussy), Summer Music and Tintagel are two I know well but he did many others.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Some of Les Six knew there way about the impressionist language even though their styles were not so strictly impressionist. Honegger(the less harsh works), Milhaud, and Poulenc are the ones I know about. 

I like Mompou, but it is piano music and you will need to be very choosey about your recordings so listen to the samples. 

Going back a ways, try Emmanuel Chabrier's piano music, being very influential pre impressionist romantic music. Pieces Pittoresque is the set to look for, and be just as choosey about your pianists. I like Ginette Doyen's renditions but there may be better and more current ones out there.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Stargazer said:


> I am planning on getting my grandfather some CDs as a present, but I'm not sure what to get for him. He is a big fan of Ravel and Debussy, so I was thinking of looking into lesser-known impressionist composers (he already has most of the major stuff). Any suggestions? This is one area that I am not well versed in at all lol!


Your grandfather will be pleased by the recommendations of Jean Cras and the Bretagne impressionists (Ropartz, Ladmirault) - we started exploring Cras in the recent thread:

http://www.talkclassical.com/22819-your-favorite-2012-classical-3.html

and of course, the incredibly difficult to get ....superlative album by Bonnal:










It's reviewed here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2001/Aug01/Bonnal.htm

Ciurlionis also wrote some impressionist influenced folk pieces - the title 'The Sea' is a bit of a giveaway:









You can hear a clip here: 
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iZ_ZVRItNY]/video]

Back to France - Lekeu is an interesting composer with the same influences: less ambiguous than Tailleferre, and certainly less abrasive than Honneger:










Granddad is going to be very happy and you are going to be very broke at the end of this thread lol


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## Aecio (Jul 27, 2012)

Amongst others :

- Enescu, a romanian student of Fauré, try impressions d'enfance or the 3rd sonata for Violin and Piano. 

- Mompou, has already indicated, try cançons i danses or Musica Callada. Jordi Maso in naxos is quite good

- Turina has some nice piano trios that are heavily indebted to Ravel and Debussy chamber music


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm surprised (unless I just didn't see perusing this thread) no one has mentioned *Jaques Ibert *yet.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Another great composer with some very impressionistic tendencies is *Joaquin Rodrigo*.

edit - another of my personal favorites is *William Walton* - try his Viola and Violin Concertos.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Chrythes said:


> Gabriel Pierné?
> I don't know if he's considered obscure, but his chamber compositions, especially for the violin and piano are quite enjoyable, though very salon wise.


I like his music alot. This is my favourite of his:

http://gosong.net/download/BNj5pillKPY/Gabriel_Pierné:_Voyage_au_Pays.html

I just wish that he could be better serviced in discography. Almost all of his works are released as tidbit parts of other collective albums.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

I think these releases reflect his chamber works really well -


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

You're more up to date than me!~ 

I've not looked for his music for decades until this post....and lo! It's Timpani Records once more. 

What a fantastic little company!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

He wasn't really an impressionist as such, but Albert Roussel wrote some truly colorful music which is enjoyable as hell . Try the ballet score Bacchus & Ariane, the insect ballet "The Spider's Feast",
the "Evocations" for orchestra and chorus , based on his visit to the great exotic temples of Indochina ,
"Prelude to a pagan festival", for example. 
Evocations may be difficult to find , but try arkivmusic.com, the best website for hard to find recordings .
Roussel's music is too rugged and spiky to be called impressionist , but try it anyway !


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Agree on Roussel not being as impressionist perhaps as Cras, Dukas, Ropartz, Bonnal. 

His flute pieces have a similar orientalesque inspiration - 'Joueurs de flute - 'Pan'; 'Krishna' etc are very short 1 sheet pieces which are great fun. His string quartet is lovely (not angular or spiky) too. 

He's another French composer whose works tend to be scattered across compilations...unless Timpani has released his chamber CDs lol


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Super-budget Brilliant Classics issued a Roussel double-cd with all his chamber music
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Aug07/Roussel_8413.htm

The performances are good.

Perhaps they might even do a composer portrait multiple-cd-box one day, buying up recordings by other companies ;-).


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm an obscure impressionist composer!~


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, but you're not any good.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

^harsh. haha.

Great topic. Debussy & Ravel is two of my absolute favorites, and i have never heard of any other impressionists (Im pretty sure that satie is not a impressionist, but a minimalist? great composer though)


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> Yes, but you're not any good.


:'( thats not very nice


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> I'm an obscure impressionist composer!~


Lol. You didn't give us that impression


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Lol. You didn't give us that impression


Really? I thought I kept myself rather composed though :3


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Keep it up! Very hard on young (i.e. not yet dead) composers to gain anything beyond obscurity for following impressionist trends. The same goes for art movements where it is treated with the kind of disdain, which a urologist might have when visiting an old person's home. 

Anything you care to show us?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Keep it up! Very hard on young (i.e. not yet dead) composers to gain anything beyond obscurity for following impressionist trends. The same goes for art movements where it is treated with the kind of disdain, which a urologist might have when visiting an old person's home.
> 
> Anything you care to show us?


I can email you some of my work, though I should add I'm not strictly impressionist. I just am heavily influenced by the aesthetic X3


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

If it's string quartets? 

I'm not very good at listening or critiquing anything other than string quartet music which is what I listen to mostly. I do enjoy other music, which I might reference once or twice a month! 

The one thing I can't figure out...like for instance sound clips/video clips - I've done a few recordings of myself playing, and they run into 115MB or larger. How do you send such files across without blowing up the other person's inbox or exceeding my mobile dongle allowance?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Head_case said:


> If it's string quartets?
> 
> I'm not very good at listening or critiquing anything other than string quartet music which is what I listen to mostly. I do enjoy other music, which I might reference once or twice a month!
> 
> The one thing I can't figure out...like for instance sound clips/video clips - I've done a few recordings of myself playing, and they run into 115MB or larger. How do you send such files across without blowing up the other person's inbox or exceeding my mobile dongle allowance?


I have a piece for string quartet, and I send mp3s instead of huge WAV files X3


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

yes yes yes. 

PM sent!


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Goodness that's a lot of recommendations so far to sort through, you people are gonna kill me lol! I greatly appreciate all of the input


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2013)

Head_case said:


> You're more up to date than me!~
> 
> I've not looked for his music for decades until this post....and lo! It's Timpani Records once more.
> 
> What a fantastic little company!


HC - I found the Bonnal SQ's you recommend and another album of chamber music on iTunes (US). I'll probably get the other album as I prefer a little piano with my strings. The Pavane label also looks interesting though Timpani sure has them beat for artwork.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Cool. Don't slate me if you find it's music you're going to use as frisbees lol. 

Timpani's covers are the best I've seen. Every album cover is consistently inspiring. 

Naxos should take notes


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2013)

Try Faure. He's to Impression what Beethoven was to Romanticism.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I know Sibelius isn't impressionism but he does have very relaxing music similar to Impressionism. His Symphonies are all good. Edvard Grieg's Peer Gynt is quite nice as well. Neither are obscure either.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Some of Ives' music is very impressionistic in style, and if you like impressionists, I highly recommend exploring the music of Wagner, the Russian romantic composers like Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Cui, Mussorgsky, and Tchaikovsky, and Schoenberg's music. The treatment of harmony and timbre are in a similar, magnificent fashion to those of the impressionists, and the Russians were a big influence on composers like Debussy and Ravel.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Some of Ives' music is very impressionistic in style, and if you like impressionists, I highly recommend exploring the music of Wagner, the Russian romantic composers like Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Cui, Mussorgsky, and Tchaikovsky, and Schoenberg's music. The treatment of harmony and timbre are in a similar, magnificent fashion to those of the impressionists, and the Russians were a big influence on composers like Debussy and Ravel.


Agreed. Much more so than the Germans. Maybe why I prefer the Russians.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Agreed. Much more so than the Germans. Maybe why I prefer the Russians.


It could be that you prefer primarily homophonic rather than primarily contrapuntal music. I remember you don't even like Bach all that much.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> It could be that you prefer primarily homophonic rather than primarily contrapuntal music. I remember you don't even like Bach all that much.


Well you remembered WRONG! Is he my favorite? Not sure. But he's top 5 for me. I was commentating about German Romanticism which is mostly Mendelssohn, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, and Mahler. Very different from French Impressionism.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Well you remembered WRONG! Is he my favorite? Not sure. But he's top 5 for me.


I was just recalling some of your negative comments about him as a proto-minimalist here and at the other forum.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with homophonic music in my mind, either. Debussy is a top 5 composer for me, along with Bach and Mahler.



neoshredder said:


> I was commentating about German Romanticism which is mostly Mendelssohn, Brahms, Bruckner, Wagner, and Mahler. Very different from French Impressionism.


And all much more contrapuntally driven (with the possible exception of Wagner, who had some impressionist traits, actually).


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I gotta admit I'm not much of Mahler fan. But Bach is quite different from Mahler. Putting all the Germans together and you get a ton of styles. I was talking mainly about German Romanticism.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I was just recalling some of your negative comments about him as a proto-minimalist here and at the other forum.
> 
> And there's absolutely nothing wrong with homophonic music in my mind, either. Debussy is a top 5 composer for me, along with Bach and Mahler.
> 
> And all much more contrapuntally driven (with the possible exception of Wagner, who had some impressionist traits, actually).


Well I mentioned one work that was sort of minimalism as it stayed in the same key the whole time. Yes it had some nice variations in it. Still not a favorite.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I was just recalling some of your negative comments about him as a proto-minimalist here and at the other forum.
> 
> And there's absolutely nothing wrong with homophonic music in my mind, either. Debussy is a top 5 composer for me, along with Bach and Mahler.
> 
> And all much more contrapuntally driven (with the possible exception of Wagner, who had some impressionist traits, actually).


What about CPE Bach and Mozart? I like them a lot.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Well I mentioned one work that was sort of minimalism as it stayed in the same key the whole time. Yes it had some nice variations in it. Still not a favorite.


There are plenty of works that stay in one key, especially in the Baroque era, or among variation sets in general. That doesn't automatically relate them to the minimalist style of the mid-late 20th century, which is much more about slowly changing repetition of material than tonality. The Goldberg Variations have constantly changing material, which puts them very far away indeed.



Neoshredder said:


> What about CPE Bach and Mozart? I like them a lot.


The classical era and style were far more homophonic in general than the late Baroque.

Once again: this is not any kind of value judgement. I love Mozart and Beethoven and Bach and Mahler and Stravinsky and Messiaen and Schoenberg and Debussy and I wouldn't be without any of them, despite their different styles.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't think you can label me as not a fan of contrapuntal works because I do like Bach. And I do feel he has better works than Goldberg Variations imho.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> I don't think you can label me as not a fan of contrapuntal works because I do like Bach. And I do feel he has better works than Goldberg Variations imho.


I didn't say that, I said you may prefer homophonic music in general. And my favorite Bach work is the B minor Mass, not the Goldbergs, although I do hold them in high esteem.

Anyway, it may surprise a few people here to learn that none other than Anton Webern held Debussy in the highest esteem, especially his opera Pelleas et Mellisande.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> I didn't say that, I said you may prefer homophonic music in general. And my favorite Bach work is the B minor Mass, not the Goldbergs, although I do hold them in high esteem.
> 
> Anyway, it may surprise a few people here to learn that none other than Anton Webern held Debussy in the highest esteem, especially his opera Pelleas et Mellisande.


I have no idea what I prefer. I just listen to what I like or might like. And late Baroque is one of my favorite perids. From Corelli-Telemann. I tended to prefer the Italians and Germans over the French in the Baroque period.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Always with that other forum. Which other forum exactly? Brighcecelia? GMG? Yahoo? Amazon? 

Not to be a snark, I just find it funny. I agree with Neo that its hard to really find consistency of preference sometimes, things will shift around. Certain things don't though, like Beethoven or Tchaikovsky with me.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Since we are getting a little bit vaguer about this, I'll put in my everlasting word for Nikolai Medtner. Check this dude out, its some serious music, but not heart on sleeve.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Amazon. And that forum made it like I hated Bach because I mentioned Goldberg Variations wasn't one of my favorites. They have these voting games that irritate me because I always disagree with their decisions. Enough with that forum. I don't post much there anymore except in the listening thread.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> I second Scott and third Griffes.
> 
> Also Respighi (Pini di Roma, Fontane di Roma), Falla (Nights in the gardens of Spain). Although these are not really obscure of course.


I wouldn't have thought they were impressionist either.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

"Impressionism has also influenced at least some of the music of Isaac Albéniz, John Alden Carpenter, Frederick Delius, Paul Dukas, Manuel de Falla, Charles Tomlinson Griffes, and Ottorino Respighi" [The Columbia Encyclopedia: "Impressionism, in music": 6th ed. New York: Columbia University Press].

Link.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

"Impressionists": Albert Roussel, Florent Schmitt, Déodat de Séverac, Ottorino Respighi, Charles Griffes, Delius, Lili Boulanger, Erik Satie.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> "Impressionism has also influenced at least some of the music of Isaac Albéniz, John Alden Carpenter, Frederick Delius, Paul Dukas, Manuel de Falla, Charles Tomlinson Griffes, and Ottorino Respighi" [The Columbia Encyclopedia: "Impressionism, in music": 6th ed. New York: Columbia University Press].
> 
> Link.


"Has influenced" is what was said.
I can't see that Roman legions maching along or fountains playing in a most explicit film-music way is impressionist and is nothing at all like Debussy!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

We have to agree to disagree then. If not the two famous roman trilogy tone poems, what Respighi would be impressionist? I have heard most of his recorded output, and for me these two come close to the impressionist tonescapes.


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## Ayazid (Aug 21, 2011)

Some music of Vaughan Williams also shows a clear impressionist influence (which makes sense, given that he took lessons from Ravel), albeit his style is predominantly late romantic. For example The Lark Ascending or London Symphony.


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## matsoljare (Jul 28, 2008)

Josef Matthias Hauer


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

That is not impressionistic ^


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## Bone (Jan 19, 2013)

*Charles Koechlin*

"The Jungle Book" with Zinman and Berlin RSO or "Parisian Hours" with Segerstam and Rheinland-Pfalz SO. Great stuff and very atmospheric.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2013)

Renaissance said:


> Try Cyril Scott ! The man is extraordinary...and prolific. He is considered the "Father of British modern music" by Eugene Goossens, and was quite popular in his time...(mostly because of his eccentric character and occult writings)


Thanks for those I don't know why I haven't heard him before,


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## Benny (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi Friends,
I'm new here - only yesterday made the acquaintance with this website and only a few minutes ago registered. Looks nice here! It's a long time I was looking for such a place to share musical tastes and experiences!

Most of the composers mentioned here were either romanticists or modernists. Quite amazing how short was the impressionist wave in music! Disappointing, in view of the immense potential of this style and the greatness of Debussy and Ravel.

Let me add another name: *Moisei Weinberg*. Most of his music is modern, and his really good pieces are quite rare, but the second movement of his flute concerto is simply thrilling. If you ask me, it should be rated as one of the most beautiful 20th century works. And, yes, it's quite impressionistic. Must listen to it:






Benny


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2013)

Absolutely beautiful Benny The Flute comes into its own in the impressionist period if only I could play like that _sighhhhhh_


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> Let me add another name: Moisei Weinberg. Most of his music is modern, and his really good pieces are quite rare, but the second movement of his flute concerto is simply thrilling. If you ask me, it should be rated as one of the most beautiful 20th century works. And, yes, it's quite impressionistic.


Definitely not impressionistic in his cello works; string quartets and piano ensemble music! His string quartets are like Shostakovich without the morning coffee.

This flute work is reminiscent of the British composer Malcolm Arnold's flute music. I agree this piece stands out as one of the tonal masterpieces of Weinberg's repertoire. The rest of his chamber stuff I've been sifting through with little joy. Thankfully his flute works are exceptional in this regard.

Another French obscure impressionist whose CD I'm still waiting for. Anyone heard it yet?


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## Benny (Feb 4, 2013)

Thank you for the feedback, Andante!
Head case, I looked for Cartan in Youtube, and this 



 is the only thing I found! 
Impressionistic - yes, maybe; more like Poulence and Milhaud (are they considered impressionists?), while I'm looking for something closer to Debussy and Ravel.
As for Weinberg - as I wrote, most of his work is modern, and (you're right) unfriendly; his good works are sparse and unfortunately less played - but still exist. Try this piece: 



 (or here: 



). He called it "Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes", but it's quite easy to track the Hasidic motifs (Weinberg was Jewish, and suffered a lot for it, so maybe he tried to "hide" behind the Moldavians...), esp. at7:25 minutes; this way or the other, it sounds very much like Kodaly (one of my favourite composers, by the way), i.e. folk-romanticist with soft-modernist touch (esp. at 2:00 and again 7:25). And this is Weinberg!!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Benny said:


> Impressionistic - yes, maybe; more like Poulence and Milhaud (are they considered impressionists?)


No, they're considered Neoclassicists, a la Stravinsky (20s~50s) or Hindemith.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Andante said:


> Absolutely beautiful Benny The Flute comes into its own in the impressionist period if only I could play like that _sighhhhhh_


Perhaps as a flute player, you could try working on another impressionist piece - the Debussy Syrinx flute solo:






It is a very short 2 minute and 2 second piece (tempo allowing) which has a lot of accidentals. Take a bar a day


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Benny said:


> Head case, I looked for Cartan in Youtube, and this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Debussy's chamber repertoire is very interesting. The Bonnal and Ropartz string quartets impresses on me most as the brother quartets of his splendid first effort.

There's a lot of Jean Cartan material on the internet - here. Maybe because I'm bilingual and I can spell Jean Cartan in French (bad j/k) - here's some short samples:

String Quartet No. I:

http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/4359141
http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/4359139

String Quartet No. II:

http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/4359148

Sonatine for flute and clarinet:

http://player.qobuz.com/#!/track/4359144

Poulenc's flute sonata is also very impressionistic. I love playing the wistfully nostalgic first part marked allegretto malincolico. The second part played 'giocoso' is more lively and humourous. His impressions of mood are very striking - although written in 1957, it still holds that strongly impressionistic character of Debussy's own flute works. Definitely far removed from contemporary neoclassism or modern barbarism.

Not obscure though: this is one of the top five performed flute sonatas says his publishers.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Poulenc's flute sonata is also very impressionistic. I love playing the wistfully nostalgic first part marked allegretto malincolico. The second part played 'giocoso' is more lively and humourous. His impressions of mood are very striking - although written in 1957, it still holds that strongly impressionistic character of Debussy's own flute works. Definitely far removed from contemporary neoclassism or modern barbarism.


What are you talking about? It's unquestionably Neoclassical, and not the least Impressionistic.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

It should be, shouldn't it? Just from Poulenc's association with neoclassicism.

guess I'm going to question that unquestionably neoclassical tenet 

Where are the motoric and rhythmic repetitive elements in the Poulenc flute sonata score? 

It is a very emotional piece for flute players. I find it impressionistic - that is to say - evocative of a variety of mood colorations rather than being evocative of nature; it is evocative of the mood climate. You can feel it across the score ...from allegretto malincolico to 'leger et mordant' from the sweeping entry of the sonata, to the 'surtout sans ralentir' pace quickens to 'A peine plus vite'. The emotional burst of 'Subito with the echoing of the intro's high E notes in very pianissimo are anything but neoclassical: this is not restraint formalism. It is musically delicacy flavoured with strong rhythmic character . The second movement 'Cantilena' runs at 'assez lent' at 52bpm and is a score which would not look out of character between Malcolm Arnold and York Bowen's flute sonatas. 

It's not known as a neoclassical flute piece: more '20th century contemporary repertoire' as opposed to 19th century romantic repertoire. Poulenc himself wasn't bothered with whether it was neoclassical or impressionistic: he was more interested in making his US$750 and was pleased that the Elizabeth Coolidge Foundation accepted the piece, such that he had a reason to travel to America to premier it. And before anyone argues that it is actually then a 'romantic flute piece' - neither is it this. Poulenc never even met the woman and just wanted his money. 

If anything, it's down to the listener to interpret what the overriding flavour is: you see neoclassical in the flute sonata (what makes it so though, according to your reason). I see it as impressionistic as a flute player. Like many of the French 20th century composers, their influences of both impressionism and neoclassicism are distilled in their works, so that there is enough for listeners of different persuasions to enjoy. That's what good music does: it invites pluralistic entry and draws on different threads of influence.



















PS - It's still not friggin' neoclassical :lol:


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Beautiful, and interesting piece. I don't know in which category i would place it... But certainly not impressionism. It leans toward neoclassicism, but yet again there is some heavy romantic bursts... Lets call it: French.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Head_case said:


> It should be, shouldn't it? Just from Poulenc's association with neoclassicism.
> 
> guess I'm going to question that unquestionably neoclassical tenet
> 
> Where are the motoric and rhythmic repetitive elements in the Poulenc flute sonata score?


All over the first movement's pseudo alberti bass accompaniment, for one thing.



> The emotional burst of 'Subito with the echoing of the intro's high E notes in very pianissimo are anything but neoclassical: this is not restraint formalism.


It is quite emotionally restrained, when compared with Romanticism or Expressionism, which is what Neoclassical is restrained in comparison to. The kind of expression and use of tonality are very different.



> PS - It's still not friggin' neoclassical :lol:


How you feel about it doesn't change its style. It's Neoclassical, whether you like it or not, and why on earth should that affect your enjoyment of the music?


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

I guess because it feels nothing like a neoclassical piece when it is played; nor is it referred to it as a model example of neoclassicism in flute literature and in fact, not a single player I've come across ever referred it to this. That's why. 
Perhaps those who know the work less well, bracket it along with Poulenc's past. Yet let's remember this broad generalisation doesn't hold: Poulenc never termed his late music of 1957 'neoclassical' either.

So referring to the unquestionable point that it has to be neoclassical, no buts about it...! That is questionable.....it has to be questioned, if we are to grasp the identity of the music with more than a superficial pigeonholing.

I used to think Poulenc was representative of this group of Six, and certainly all the superficial wikipedia stuff tells us that convention has it that his flute sonata should be 'neoclassical' since the rest of his music can be thought of in this way. Perhaps it is Poulenc's biographer, Roger Nichols who sheds a new hypothesis about Poulenc's relationship with this neoclassical style:



> Both the Flute Sonata and the Clarinet Sonata, the latter dedicated to the memory of Arthur Honegger, follow the early chamber works in their 3-movement, fast-slow-fast patterns, with a moderate first movement of almost religious serenity, a gentle middle one in a contrasting key, and a sprightly finale. The Flute Sonata, in particular, has become a modern classic, both in its original form and in the orchestral arrangement made in 1977 by Sir Lennox Berkeley. The Oboe Sonata, written in memory of Sergey Prokofiev and Poulenc's last work of any stature, alters the succession of movements to slow-fast-slow, ending with a 'Deploration' which the composer described as "a sort of liturgical chant".
> 
> It is clear from this final sonata that Poulenc was, at the time of his death, reconsidering the materials of his style. Not that he was considering becoming a twelve-note composer, despite the note-rows in the Elégie, but while remaining the tonal, tuneful composer he had always been, he was searching for new ways of putting his ideas together. Like his friends Honegger and Milhaud, he had the courage to resist the serialists' diktats and remain true to himself. Now that the serialist terror has passed, those of us who love Poulenc's music can hold up our heads in the most sophisticated company, while never forgetting the earthy, provincial roots, which give his works their strength and endurance. And if it all seems so simple, we should remember the long maternal line of craftsmen that stands behind him - for him, as for them, the art consists in concealing the artifice.


Nichols takes up this stylistic individuality, and traces Poulenc's later style, as an expression of his personal catholic belief, rather than using broadbrush strokes derived from a musical analysis, to pigeonhole him in the neoclassical tradition from which his early musical voice sprung. He sees the bigger picture: he sees Poulenc's restrain, as a derivation of his later spiritual faith, incorporated into his work, not because Poulenc has purposefully followed some other neoclassical stylistic tendency, but because he himself as a man has changed. Interesting that Poulenc conveys a different impression and seemed to be rather chirpy and quirky about penning music as a paid performer in his correspondence, dismissing any self-aggrandissement of himself as an overserious religious composer. He seems rather down to earth and rather likeable in this respect; and if Nichols is correct, then Poulenc's shift in worldview, led to a shift in his composing.

This idea of different stylistic traits has been taken up by many commentators on Poulenc's distinctiveness in his early works vs late works: the flute sonata is a late work, written within 10 years of his death:

https://urresearch.rochester.edu/in...DC425092448857897F8?institutionalItemId=14155

so you're right to mark out the neoclassical stylistic which on the surface, the flute sonata can seem to convey. Here's the three traits:



> The first stylistic trait: Experimental, dominates the early works, appearing less often afterwards, usually serving to provide "instability" to transitions and introductions. It reflects some of the prevailing "mainstream" compositional tendencies in Paris in the 20's. Influenced by Stravinsky, the music of this trait is characterized by the non-tonal use of exact sequences, exotic scales, chords in oscillation, ostinati and parallelism, as well as polymeters, isomelody and the manipulation of pitch within cells.
> The* Neo-classical trait[/B appears in most of the middle and late works, often associated with both primary and secondary thematic material. Unlike Stravinsky and Hindemith, whose "neo-classical" tendencies at the time are more aptly described as neobaroque, Poulenc tends to utilize here melodies, formal structures, harmonies, textures and rhythms evocative of eighteenth-century classic music. Also, cyclic themes appear, along with quotations from Stravinsky's works and Poulenc's own compositions.
> The last stylistic trait, Popular, discussed in Chapter 5, is found in four of the works (one early, both middle works and one late work) and is almost always associated with secondary thematic material. It is characterized by melodies and textures reminiscent of Parisian popular songs and music hall revues from the 20's through the 40's, modulating fifth relation harmony and syncopated rhythm. *


*

He doesn't bring these three traits completely successfully, however well crafted they are in the flute sonata. That 'restraint' which listeners detect in Poulenc, may in fact, have nothing to do with neoclassicism, anymore than the restraint of Gabriel Faure's chamber music can be attributed to neoclassicism. Perhaps the danger of polystylistic compositions is that it can seem derivative: the flute sonata is a very evocative piece which is the original intent of Debussy's concept of impressionism and is anything but. As a piece, it does not embody any strong representative model of any particular neoclassical tradition. Its influences are there. But then, neoclassicism is evident in Schoenberg, and he doesn't represent neoclassicism either lol.

Neoclassical it is (a part 1/3 or perhaps no more). Impressionist it feels 100% *


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Head_case said:


> I guess because it feels nothing like a neoclassical piece when it is played; nor is it referred to it as a model example of neoclassicism in flute literature and in fact, not a single player I've come across ever referred it to this. That's why.


How does a Neoclassical piece feel? I'm curious as to how such a broad movement would have a single affect for its performers.



> Perhaps those who know the work less well, bracket it along with Poulenc's past. Yet let's remember this broad generalisation doesn't hold: Poulenc never termed his late music of 1957 'neoclassical' either.
> 
> So referring to the unquestionable point that it has to be neoclassical, no buts about it...! That is questionable.....it has to be questioned, if we are to grasp the identity of the music with more than a superficial pigeonholing.
> 
> I used to think Poulenc was representative of this group of Six, and certainly all the superficial wikipedia stuff tells us that convention has it that his flute sonata should be 'neoclassical' since the rest of his music can be thought of in this way. Perhaps it is Poulenc's biographer, Roger Nichols who sheds a new hypothesis about Poulenc's relationship with this neoclassical style:...


Absolutely nothing you've quoted here supports either of your arguments, that the flute sonata is Impressionist, or that it is not Neoclassical.



> But then, neoclassicism is evident in Schoenberg, and he doesn't represent neoclassicism either lol.


What is described as Neoclassical in Schoenberg's 12-tone music is usually in the realm of form. In his Suite Op. 25, for instance, we have the outlines of Baroque forms, the Minuet, the Musette, the Gigue. The same goes for his appropriation of (more or less) sonata form or rondo form for works like the 3rd String Quartet. Neoclassicism as a movement through Stravinsky, Hindemith, and Satie was a movement away from the chromatic harmony and expressive aesthetics of the late Romantic and Expressionist movements, features which were retained by Schoenberg in his 12-tone works.



> Neoclassical it is (a part 1/3 or perhaps no more). Impressionist it feels 100%


No it doesn't. It doesn't sound like Impressionist music, it isn't written like Impressionist music, so no matter how it feels, it isn't Impressionist music. It sounds like Neoclassical music, it is written like Neoclassical music, so not matter how it feels, it is Neoclassical music.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Hope we're not ruining this thread with a neoclassical diversion :lol:

Have a listen to this piece:






This is by Aleksander Tansman, one of my favourite neoclassical string quartet composers. The strong taut motoric drives created by the rhythmic pressure expresses that very character of the neoclassical school (Bacewicz in Poland; Boulanger in France) which makes the music instantly identifiable.

How does it feel? For a flute player, you will know by your fingering rhythms. It feels like ... 20th century Bach, or put simply, the neo-baroque strength of taut rhythmic dance like structures given through the fingerings on the flute, which mirror the same motoric rhythmic 'dance' which you heard in the Tansman piece above.

The most obvious piece reflecting dominant neoclassical qualities in flute repertoire which I've played is the Robert Muczynski sonata (this is standard ABRSM Grade 8 test repertoire or "Beginners Grade repertoire according to some dental poster on the forum  ). Here you can hear the same motoric neobaroque elements:






Now listen to the spiritually ethereal Poulenc sonata - still firmly anchored in earth and salonesque easy-going laidbackness with its soaring melodic lines: devoid of those motoric repetitive motifs:






As I said before: I'm not referring to concrete pigeonholing of the Poulenc flute sonata, anymore than I am saying that Poulenc's work is de facto impressionism. It is not: it is Debussy's concept of impressionism which is more interesting: and conceptualisation is not easily reduced into either/or.

I'm not trying to employ a reductionist approach to simplify Poulenc's work to 'grasp it' as your efforts have shown. Rather, I'm doing the opposite - and of course, I must be wrong and completely mistaken to think or dare to. But I'm not the first to discover a different dimension of Poulenc's work. If not, that's okay too, and it's fine to remain concrete and insist on stated aphorisms about Poulenc's musical style to suit a given preconception that his music must be neoclassical...

Now to rewind and play Debussy's Syrinx straight after the Poulenc Flute sonata.....they fit very well programmed next to one another....


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Neobaroque motor rhythms (which do appear, after a fashion, in the Poulenc, noting the near constant pulse in eighth notes/quavers) are far from the only or most important aspect of Neoclassical practice. it is a way of treating tonality and the diatonic scale that was significantly different from common practice.

How about the "soaring melodic lines" (well, long-breathed at least) of Stravinsky's violin concerto?








Head_case said:


> Hope we're not ruining this thread with a neoclassical diversion


I hope not too...


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Yeah Debussy, Ravel, Satie, and some of Faure is plenty of music imo. If you've got the complete works of all these Composers, than it might be worth digging deeper. I don't think Impressionism is deep enough where someone can develop their own style through Impressionism. They would just be considered a Debussy or Ravel rip off similar to Yngwie in neo-classical metal music.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Love Gil Shaham - he is such an expressive player! Wish I could say the same about Stravinsky :lol:

Stravinsky's barbaric motoric steps descending the scale makes it stark neoclassical point very quickly. It's still a very fine violin concerto conveying a very dramatic and tense experience (like sitting in a beach hut enjoying scones and tea waiting to be raided by the Vikings :lol

The 'soaring melodies' of neoclassicism were immortalised in string quartet literature by Grayzna Bacewicz's famous string quartet no. IV:






I love this string quartet. The Wienawski Quartet are the new kids on the block and look like they are going to be producing an interesting cycle of this wonderfully underrated neoclassical composer. The Amar Corde and the Wilanow Quartet recordings are both out of print so it's exciting to see the Naxos factory start to bring it back into print to show us how 'beautiful' and 'neoclassicism' is not a contradiction.

Here's the beautiful Dutilleux Sonatine for flute and piano - an interwar piece which fans of Debussy and Ravel might take to:


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Love Gil Shaham - he is such an expressive player! Wish I could say the same about Stravinsky :lol:

Stravinsky's barbaric motoric steps descending the scale makes it stark neoclassical point very quickly. It's still a very fine violin concerto conveying a very dramatic and tense experience (like sitting in a beach hut enjoying scones and tea waiting to be raided by the Vikings :lol

The 'soaring melodies' of neoclassicism were immortalised in string quartet literature by Grayzna Bacewicz's famous string quartet no. IV:






I love this string quartet. The Wienawski Quartet are the new kids on the block and look like they are going to be producing an interesting cycle of this wonderfully underrated neoclassical composer. The Amar Corde and the Wilanow Quartet recordings are both out of print so it's exciting to see the Naxos factory start to bring it back into print to show us how 'beautiful' and 'neoclassicism' is not a contradiction.

Here's the beautiful Dutilleux Sonatine for flute and piano - an interwar piece which fans of Debussy and Ravel might take to:


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Love Gil Shaham - he is such an expressive player! Wish I could say the same about Stravinsky :lol:
> 
> Stravinsky's barbaric motoric steps descending the scale makes it stark neoclassical point very quickly. It's still a very fine violin concerto conveying a very dramatic and tense experience (like sitting in a beach hut enjoying scones and tea waiting to be raided by the Vikings :lol


Sorry if this analogy makes no sense to me whatsoever. If I may be allowed, in spite of Stravinsky's rampant proclamations, to attach any kind of feeling or mood to the concerto's middle movements, I would call it more nostalgic or regretful rather than tense and dramatic. There is the occasional outburst, but the whole is very subdued and, because of this, quite expressive.

And why "barbaric"? Stravinsky left behind his "primitivist" style over a decade before this concerto. The final movement is actually quite sunny in character.

(Stravinsky didn't write any great music for string quartet, unfortunately. Does that count against him in your book?)



Neoshredder said:


> Yeah Debussy, Ravel, Satie, and some of Faure is plenty of music imo. If you've got the complete works of all these Composers, than it might be worth digging deeper. I don't think Impressionism is deep enough where someone can develop their own style through Impressionism. They would just be considered a Debussy or Ravel rip off similar to Yngwie in neo-classical metal music.


Messiaen and Takemitsu, among others, took the Impressionist aesthetic to new places, as did the aforementioned Dutilleux. Even Boulez's more recent music has some Impressionist attributes.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Love is not an analogy! I love Gil Shaham's contribution to classical music. I can't say I love Stravinsky. The former is expressive for his playing...the latter expresses himself in a manner I find florid and wish he'd go express it out of my hearing range :lol:

Sadly I don't find Stravinsky's work interesting at all (which isn't to say he has no admirers - he has plenty) although I do like much of the neoclassical composers. Tansman's rivetting Triptych with its psycho-motor barbarism is one of those high points in neoclassical literature and barbarism is not a euphemism either: it's coarse gutteral connection with substance, opposes the ethereal or spiritual impressionism of music such as Messiaen, Dutilleux or Poulenc, who share much more in common beyond their musical aesthetic. Or as Roland Barthes puts it (paraphrased and misquoted by me) - that 'punctum' or point which pricks our consciousness to bring an awareness of an emotional quality which had escaped us as we drift along the river of soaring melody.

I guess your point about Stravinsky' absence of proper string quartet contribution is valid. I'm not a balanced listener of concerto repertoire and only listen to a handful of violin concertos in anycase, so I couldn't really tell if Stravinsky's contribution was astounding. I just know I wouldn't wish to listen to it very often at all. Impressionism I can listen to whatever the weather. Neoclassicism, I pick the day more assiduously.

Listening to the graceful movement of Bacewicz's string quartet no.IV, Stravinsky's violin concerto is filled with harsh barbaric textures. The regret or nostalgia escaped me. I suppose repeated listening beyond the surface of it would reveal more of its character for me and I'll have to return to it and listen harder. I like neoclassicism most when it either approximates its neo-baroque dance like spirit (Tansman), or when it strips this away to reveal its elegant form (Bacewicz)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Love is not an analogy! I love Gil Shaham's contribution to classical music. I can't say I love Stravinsky. The former is expressive for his playing...the latter expresses himself in a manner I find florid and wish he'd go express it out of my hearing range :lol:


I was referring to your comment regarding "conveying a very dramatic and tense experience (like sitting in a beach hut enjoying scones and tea waiting to be raided by the Vikings", which makes no sense to me either in itself or in connection with this music.

Stravinsky is one of my favorite composers. His music is always strikingly original, even when it is modeled on one predecessor or another (Bach, Mozart, Webern), well-crafted, and eloquent.



> Sadly I don't find Stravinsky's work interesting at all (which isn't to say he has no admirers - he has plenty) although I do like much of the neoclassical composers. Tansman's rivetting Triptych with its psycho-motor barbarism is one of those high points in neoclassical literature and barbarism is not a euphemism either: it's coarse gutteral connection with substance, opposes the ethereal or spiritual impressionism of music such as Messiaen, Dutilleux or Poulenc, who share much more in common beyond their musical aesthetic.


Such as a love of Stravinsky's music? They all considered him an important figure in one way or another, whether for his use of rhythm (Messiaen and Dutilleux) or his Neoclassicism (Poulenc).

Stravinsky's music has plenty of the ethereal and spiritual in it. One of the few works he wrote without a commission was his Mass for choir and wind ensemble, which is austere and starkly beautiful.






(Once again, forgive me for hijacking the thread away from Impressionism. I present the following as a kind of penance.)


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Sorry to ressurect this argument, but I checked this with some professors and they said it was classical in form, but impressionistic in tone. (Poulenc flute sonata)

So you're both correct.

But it really doesn't matter.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Don't know whether it has already been mentioned, but I am listening right now to Sibelius' symphonic poem Oceanides, and it strikes me how impressionist it sounds.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2013)

Head_case said:


> Perhaps as a flute player, you could try working on another impressionist piece - the Debussy Syrinx flute solo:


Unfortunately my old Flute lays on the book shelves unused for a few years as I no longer play any musical instrument I am past my "use by date"


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Okkkk...maybe the bar is set too high. 

It's fun just blowing into the flute now and then to make any sound. And then, taking a few bars of an orchestral piece, like the Rite of Spring, and playing just those few bars. 

It really impresses people, and they might not know, that those few bars are all you know how to play :lol:

That's funny....my old flute used to lay on the book shelves. 

Now my book lays on the flute shelves :lol:


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2013)

Head_case said:


> Okkkk...maybe the bar is set too high.
> 
> It's fun just blowing into the flute now and then to make any sound.
> :


Perhaps I am not explaining my self clearly Hc I used to play the Flute but have retired


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Andante said:


> Perhaps I am not explaining my self clearly Hc I used to play the Flute but have retired


Oh. You don't find it fun anymore? 
Retirement sounds like hard work! 

I used to think I'd like to retire.... so that I can play the flute.

Nuts. Maybe I'd better keep on pen pushing at the desk job so that I can enjoy the flute more ...


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2013)

And the best of luck to you, may your eyesight stay focused and your fingers remain supple.


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## Ayazid (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't know if his name has been already brought up or not, but Vincent d'Indy (1851-1931) also deserves to be mentioned, albeit he was essentialy a late romantic (which makes sense, given the year of his birth). His 20th century works definitely show a Debussian influence (for example, _Jour d'été à la montagne_ and _Poème des Rivages_). It's a high quality music in any case.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Ayazid said:


> I don't know if his name has been already brought up or not, but Vincent d'Indy (1851-1931) also deserves to be mentioned, albeit he was essentialy a late romantic (which makes sense, given the year of his birth). His 20th century works definitely show a Debussian influence (for example, _Jour d'été à la montagne_ and _Poème des Rivages_). It's a high quality music in any case.


Oh, my!!!!!! Thank you for introducing me to this composer


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Andante said:


> And the best of luck to you, may your eyesight stay focused and your fingers remain supple.


Thanks 

Maybe not in another 30 years time but I take each day as it comes . It's great being able to enjoy finger dexterity as a flute player.

Even when playing a game of SNAP! I remain unbeaten by all my younger supposed to be nimble little nieces and nephews :lol:


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## Ayazid (Aug 21, 2011)

His Poeme des Rivages from 1919 is a nice example of French late Romanticism with some impressionist elements. Sure, it's no Debussy or Ravel, but still a pretty interesting music:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Not mentioned yet: Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco is mainly known for an absolutely great guitar concerto, but early in his career he composed piano pieces somewhat along the line of Debussy:






I just love his work; all of it really beautifully crafted.

Other work which is arguably impressionistic: Joseph Canteloube's charming, atmospheric folk song arrangements. The most famous is "Bailero," but the others are every bit as haunting, like this one:


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## Aquos (May 26, 2013)

I have a question, can you consider Delius Requiem as impressionist?


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## Benny (Feb 4, 2013)

Hi, friends!
I've got a gorgeous impressionist discovery. Respighi was mentioned above (p. 1) by his orchestral works - that are far from being "obscure" - but try this piano Notturno:





By the way, someone recommended Mompou's piano works - and they're really good! (I bought a CD).
Gutt Shabbos,
B.


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## Benny (Feb 4, 2013)

Ayazid and Brianvds, thank you for your recommendations in the previous page.
B


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## TrevBus (Jun 6, 2013)

There was an American Composer/Teacher, who is best known as one of Bernstein's teachers at Harvard; Edward Burlingame Hill, who's pieces-"Prelude for Orchestra", the tone poem- "Lilacs" and finally, maybe his Masterpiece- "Stevensoniana Suite #1", all, as Bernstein said "admired for it's personal apporiation of impressionist techniques" and "who loved Debussy". That love can really be found in "Prelude for Orchrestra".

I don't have a recording of 'Lilacs' but I have the other 2

Prelude for Orchrstra--on a Sony disc, The American Masters(Also contains a work by another teacher of Berstein-Walter Piston. Bernstein conducting. Also has Blitztein"s 'Airborne Symphony', Orson Wells, Narrator.

Stevensoniana Suite #1--on a Bridge disc. Karl Krueger conductor. Also includes works By; Louis Coerne, Horatio Parker and John Alden Carpenter.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Arvid Kleven

Norwegian impressionist/expressionist

_Poeme for Oboe and Piano.op4(1922)_





_Appasionato (Piano solo 1921)
_




_Dæmring_





I would also like to recommend his "Symphonic Fantasy Op. 15", "The Sleeping Forest Op. 9" and "Lotusland Op. 5"

You can find those at spotify.


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## Benny (Feb 4, 2013)

Samuel Barber's piano music is impressionistic, and beautiful!! 
It should have been played much more.
This performance is not the best, but have a try:


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## Adair (Feb 9, 2016)

I also vote for Cyril Scott. He was known as the English Debussy in his early and more successful years (he suffered terrible neglect after the 1930s). His Piano Concerto #1, despite a poor third movement, has amazing, very original, almost hyper-Impressionist sounds. I read a short story once by Alfredo Franco, the Cuban author, in which the protagonist listens to this concerto at slow speed on a phonograph just to elongate the hypnotic effect of certain passages. Scott's solo piano music is also wonderful.


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

I've by no means listened to all of these, but here are some French impressionist names that come to mind. You've probably heard of these names, but hey, a list for reference never hurts!:

Duparc
Dukas
Schmitt (very Ravel-like)
d'Indy (a very consistent composer -- no memorable works, but you never feel disappointed)
Ibert
Magnard
Roussel (excellent composer -- for some reason, his music reminds me of French Rococo paintings like this)
Pierné
Guy-Ropartz
Koechlin (a mix of Satie and Bach)
Bonnal (I think only his two string quartets are recorded, but, again, very Ravel-like)
Satie
Les Six (Poulenc, Honegger, Tailleferre, Milhaud, Auric, Durvey)


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## Medtnaculus (May 13, 2015)

Good to see some love for Schmitt. A true favourite of mine.

Decaux's only work has a very impressionistic movement, La Mer.
Frank Bridge has some lovely pieces such as his sunset.
Vaughan William's 5th symphony is quite impressionistic in parts.
Joseph Jongen has some wonderful works you should check out.
William Baines also has quite a lovely output, though a limited one at that.
Jean Huré has a fantastic quintet too.
Vitezslav Novak has a symphonic poem for solo piano, pan.

And many others; Debussy, Ravel (of course), Schmitt, Koechlin, Bax, Falla and Resphi


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