# English polyphony of the 15th century i need more info please?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Tallis ,Dunstable, Byrd 

Beside these 3 i dont know mutch about English polyphony , name a classical composer of this era and a cd you like whit label ect...

What do English has to offer beside these 3 names, i heard walter phrye except i can get my hand on a full of him.But he is good like Dunstable..i only have the naxos of the English godz.

Dunstable is underground to order these days beside naxos...

Tallis is great but i heard a lot of him for now

Byrd i only have a missa and his harpiscords...
I want to go in the depth whit the finest English gentelmen of this era of classic
Any new cd you would recommended whit cult figure of early renaissance england?

Im looking for motets or vocal music of choice bold and avant-garde for it's time
please musicologist and TC menbers impress me tell me what england best kept secret
among the composers.

:tiphat:


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2016)

deprofundis said:


> Tallis ,Dunstable, Byrd
> 
> Beside these 3 i dont know mutch about English polyphony , name a classical composer of this era and a cd you like whit label ect...
> 
> ...


I like to give you two very beautiful cd's to consider.First John Sheppard,the English choir The Sixteen made 4 cd's with his music on Hyperion.My first recommendation however is a cd with the Tallis Scholars.His Media Vita is one of my favorite pieces.
Second,John Taverner,The Sixteen have recorded his music on Hyperion.
My first recommendation is a recording of the mass "Gloria Tibi Trinitas with The Taverner choir directed by Andrew Parrott.
I am quite positive that you will like it.The Taverner mass is difficult to find but than you have something to live for.:tiphat:


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Taverner and Sheppard might have been the first names to come to mind for me as well. You can also try Christopher Tye and Thomas Ashwell.

Tallis Scholars have a recording of three Western Wind masses: Taverner, Tye and Sheppard. 

Ashwell really is from the 15th century (mostly) but is harder to find recordings of.

John Browne is another Tudor era guy. Tallis have a recording of his on Gimell.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I would say the big shining masterpiece of English polyphony is Taverner's Missa Corona Spinea.,

It would be good if someone has explored The Eton Choirbook, as I'd like to know it better. Same for the Peterhouse Partbooks.

Just looking over other people's responses, a composer worth listening to but unmentioned is *Ludford*, my own favourite is *Missa Christi Virgo Dilectissima sung by Cardinall's Music* - all their Ludford is good, as is Blue Heron's. There's also a thread here where we talked a lot about Parrott's Taverner recordings.

Another outstanding composer is Lionel Power - there are recordings by Blue Heron, Gothic Voices, The Binchois Consort.

Here are some notes of mine about various English choral recordings.

1. I'm sure there are many imperfections with the recording of *Christopher Tye's Missa Euge Bone by David Hill/Winchester Cathedral Choir.* The recording is hardly state of the art and I have a friend who says that the intonation is not the best (though I don't notice it.) But nevertheless in my opinion it is an astonishing performance because of the strength and personality of the voices, especially the lower voices - at times the male choruses made me think of those bits of Parsifal when the Grail knights start to get shirty because Amfortas won't open the shrine.

2. I am very impressed with this recording of *Taverner's* *Missa Corona Spinea from Peter Philips/Tallis* *Scholars*. The discussion above (and other reviews on Amazon) makes it sound as though the male voices have a really secondary role, but in fact they create some wonderful harmonies (again a surprise, just because Philips in Josquin is so timid about dissonances. But here, the harmonies are fabulously tangy!)

But more than this - and this shows he's a great musician IMO - the way he tells a story with the music is magic. The tempos are slow, but you (I) don't notice the time passing at all, such is his mastery of the music's structure.

I like the relatively small ensemble. The balance between ecstasy and control is wonderful too.

3. I know two recordings of *Walter Frye's Missa Flos Regalis, on CDs by Hilliard and Clerks' Group*. I prefer Clerks' Group for two reasons. One is they tend to chose slower tempos, which lets me smell the roses. It would be unfair to say that Hilliard are chaotic by comparison, but the faster speeds makes the music feel more complex than my brain can take: the polyphonic textures feel more like a tangled ball of string. And second, Hilliard (as always) are dominated by their countertenor's voice, and although I like David James's voice it it is sometimes so present it gets on my nerves. The blend is less annoying from Clerks' group.

Both deliver small scale performances where you're aware of the character of each singer. Furthermore, both deliver rather prayerful performance, rapt. This may be due to the nature of the music, or it may be just one of many equally valid performance styles. I'm not sure.

4. Some astonishing things on this collection of *English fragments from Liber unUsualis*. A lilting and gentle _Veni mater gracie/ Dou way Robin_ (Adel, Yorkshire, 1349); a harmonically interesting _Sanctus_ (Fountains Abbey, c.1380); the extraordinary polyphony and resulting harmony in _Doleo super te/ Absolon, fili me _(Norwich, c. 1320); the touching, haunting, searing and intense _Novi sideris lumen resplenduit_ (Bury St. Edmunds, c.1280); the complex and subtle _Pura, placens, pulcra/ Parfundement plure Absolon _(Bury St. Edmunds, 14th c.) and the fluid _Singularis laudis digna_ (Royal Chapel of Edward III, c.1350-60).

It's not all at this high standard, there are some less interesting monophonic music.



deprofundis said:


> Dunstable is underground to order these days beside naxos...


What do you mean? You can get Orlando and Hilliard can't you?


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

William Mundy's _Vox patris caelestis_ is one of my favorites, though I don't know much else by him:


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2016)

Taverner


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2016)

Sheppard verbum caro factum est


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Traverso said:


> Taverner


 I know three performances of this, the Philips one in that clip, one from Edinburgh Cathedral and one from Kings College London. It's the latter, directed by David Trendell, which is my favourite by far - for the balance and the sense of poise, the natural way the musical story unfolds.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

this Mundy cd

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55086


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Listening to John Taverner on Spotify... Nice. Cadences are either so rare or so smooth, phrasing so varied, you could say Taverner approaches modern sensibility. Would be even nicer in a one-voice-per-part performance. The closest to that I could find was Western Wind by Taverner Choir & Players with Andrew Parrott. They alternate between full choir and (it seems) one-voice-per-part. These thinned down sections sound very, very good. A whole mass sung and recorded like that, and with even better balance, would sound glorious.

edit: Nice indeed. That Taverner Western Wind mass is becoming one of my favs. Very strong thematic material, and Taverner does a lot with it. One of the peaks of the Renaissance I'd say.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Heliogabo said:


> this Mundy cd
> 
> http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDH55086


I have it.:tiphat:


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> I know three performances of this, the Philips one in that clip, one from Edinburgh Cathedral and one from Kings College London. It's the latter, directed by David Trendell, which is my favourite by far - for the balance and the sense of poise, the natural way the musical story unfolds.
> 
> View attachment 87581


 Thank you for your information.I feel a little ashamed,I never heard of this choir and director who is passed away.I understand that they sing the mass in a lower pitch and that makes me very curious.I know only the Sixteen recordings.
I have the Taverner mass Gloria tibi trinitas as download from the internet a cd copy is so hard to find.
Andrew Parrott EMI


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Traverso said:


> Thank you for your information.I feel a little ashamed,I never heard of this choir and director who is passed away.I understand that they sing the mass in a lower pitch and that makes me very curious.I know only the Sixteen recordings.
> I have the Taverner mass Gloria tibi trinitas as download from the internet a cd copy is so hard to find.
> Andrew Parrott EMI


He died young and didn't record much. If you want me to upload the CD for you I can, I know it's rare.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Chordalrock said:


> Listening to John Taverner on Spotify... Nice. Cadences are either so rare or so smooth, phrasing so varied, you could say Taverner approaches modern sensibility. Would be even nicer in a one-voice-per-part performance. The closest to that I could find was Western Wind by Taverner Choir & Players with Andrew Parrott. They alternate between full choir and (it seems) one-voice-per-part. These thinned down sections sound very, very good. A whole mass sung and recorded like that, and with even better balance, would sound glorious.
> 
> edit: Nice indeed. That Taverner Western Wind mass is becoming one of my favs. Very strong thematic material, and Taverner does a lot with it. One of the peaks of the Renaissance I'd say.


There aren't many small scale performances of Taverner, I think he probably wrote for quite big choirs, it's all a question of balance and conducting of course.

There's a live recording of Dum Transiset by Blue Heron on spotify.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> He died young and didn't record much. If you want me to upload the CD for you I can, I know it's rare.


 Thank you very much for offering this solution.:tiphat:.I tried to order it myself but they do not accept .PayPal.

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/aboutkings/index.aspx


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Traverso said:


> Thank you very much for offering this solution.:tiphat:.I tried to order it myself but they do not accept .PayPal.
> 
> http://www.kcl.ac.uk/aboutkings/index.aspx


Good find. I sent you a message.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2016)

I found with great difficulty these two cd's with English Polyphony.I will spend more time with this music and the music Mandryka was so kindly to share with me.



post a picture


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Traverso said:


> Thank you very much for offering this solution.:tiphat:.I tried to order it myself but they do not accept .PayPal.
> 
> http://www.kcl.ac.uk/aboutkings/index.aspx


No credit card either?


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2016)

Pugg said:


> No credit card either?


Master card, Maestro and Visa,I have none of them.Glad that I can pay with paypal.No Amazon for me..

My last purchases are from a French shop and my French is not so good,fortunately I managed.


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Tallis ,Dunstable, Byrd
> 
> Beside these 3 i dont know mutch about English polyphony , name a classical composer of this era and a cd you like whit label ect...
> 
> ...


robert fayrfax

thomas tomkins


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Traverso said:


> Master card, Maestro and Visa,I have none of them.Glad that I can pay with paypal.No Amazon for me..
> 
> My last purchases are from a French shop and my French is not so good,fortunately I managed.


You can always use google translate.


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