# Write like Mozart!



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, that would be nice. A new Coursera course on the Internet:

"This course aims to give students a set of approaches for composition in the style of Classical and Romantic era European art music. The principles and skills in this course engage one as much as possible in the thinking of composers from those eras, giving the student compositional freedoms that composers of that era enjoyed. The issues of harmonic progression, voice leading, and texture are addressed in addition to relevant compositional concepts such as common tones, leading tones, repetition, variation, and elaboration."

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp

I took one of these courses a while ago and it was quite fun.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Does anyone recall the adverts in magazines and on the back of matchbooks, for drawing school, those with a drawn illustration of a woman's head, saying, "Draw Me," followed by "you can have a career as a professional artist" blahbahblah?

This is one of those similar pitches, and probably similar "rackets," even if they think they offer a decent lesson plan...

{{ For starters, Wolferl had never heard of 'voice-leading,' but instead had studied modal counterpoint -- most very likely as laid down in principle by Fux -- at the academy in Rome. For nexters, lol, he did that in his very early teens. }}

Then, done with this fantastically thorough course, you're a successful Monkey who can type out Hamlet, and various spins of Hamlet.

As a business, it may rake in something more respectable than more than just a slightly few shekels (like those writer's correspondence schools, fueled and fed by so many vanity wannabe fantasists.)

What is not linked in the heading of this OP, and it ought to be since it is the most hysterical part of the whole deal, i.e. course length? SIX WEEKS.

So... the whole thing could be thought of, and might have in the past been advertised as:

*Learn how to write like Mozart in just six weeks!*

I owe it to you overall and once again, 
a very sincere thanks for the laughs.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

It looks like an interesting course for music students to to get a grasp on classical style than a proper music theory course for people wishing to be composers actually. I really don't think it should be packaged as "compose like Mozart."

However, it does look useful for students, like classroom activities. Are there any for other styles?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> It looks like an interesting course for music students to to get a grasp on classical style than a proper music theory course for people wishing to be composers... However, it does look useful for students, like classroom activities.


Unless there are some fairly serious level pre-requisites, the course may offer something far more primary, basic, than it wants to appear to offer...

and the ad pitch / title given it?

a grotesque sham


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Unless there are some fairly serious level pre-requisites, the course may offer something far more primary, basic, than it wants to appear to offer...


Trouble is the pre-requisites are suitably vague - roman numeral analysis and common harmonic progressions. The suggested refresher is on "music theory rudiments". What's even more interesting is that the course leader is a composer who " performs live electronic music solo and with his trio Ang Mo Faux. "

As to further courses, if you click on the link at the bottom of the page labelled categories, there are some more (basic) music courses but none on composition per se.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

The National University of Singapore can _Leck mich im Arsch_.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Taggart said:


> Trouble is the pre-requisites are suitably vague - roman numeral analysis and common harmonic progressions. The suggested refresher is on "music theory rudiments". What's even more interesting is that the course leader is a composer who " performs live electronic music solo and with his trio Ang Mo Faux. "
> 
> As to further courses, if you click on the link at the bottom of the page labelled categories, there are some more (basic) music courses but none on composition per se.


God bless the internet


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Then, done with this fantastically thorough course, you're a successful Monkey who can type out Hamlet, and various spins of Hamlet.
> 
> As a business, it may rake in something more respectable than more than just a slightly few shekels (like those writer's correspondence schools, fueled and fed by so many vanity wannabe fantasists.)


I agree that "learn to compose like Mozart" can only lead to unoriginality, they should make "learn to compose like Boulez" so the composers can be original.

Anyway, first I'd like to hear some works by authors of this course that prove that THEY can compose like Mozart. How could they teach to do so otherwise?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> The National University of Singapore can _Leck mich im Arsch_.


I had similar thoughts. Writing like Mozart is fairly easy:

"...and I told him you can #[email protected]#@ lick my ##[email protected][email protected] and go $%#$ your %$#@ grandmother..."

Now composing like Mozart may well be another matter altogether.

:angel:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

brianvds said:


> I had similar thoughts. Writing like Mozart is fairly easy:
> 
> "...and I told him you can #[email protected]#@ lick my ##[email protected][email protected] and go $%#$ your %$#@ grandmother..."
> 
> ...


But that would have to be in a mixture of German, Italian and perhaps English


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Aramis said:


> Anyway, first I'd like to hear some works by authors of this course that prove that THEY can compose like Mozart. How could they teach to do so otherwise?





PetrB said:


> God bless the internet


Ask and it shall be given unto ye. The course director has a website with samples of his work. Or you can find an example of his work on YouTube - "Hareu! Hareu!" for Guitar Solo


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I just took the course, but unfortunately the music came out "hpowders'.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

This course is not exactly going to be of much use to composition students.....grab some theory textbooks for that. This is like a prepackaged cheap plastic magic trick than a composition course :lol:

If you want to be a composer, study ALL styles of music, learn from textbooks that don't limit you to the style of a small handful of composers. Being able to compose something that sound like Mozart is just a cheap trick these days. People try and fail because they can never be Mozart. They can try though, and they will always learn from trying.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

But Mozart already wrote a bunch of great music. You should learn how to write like Ken OC instead.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Program doesn't recognize "KenOC". Puzzling! I typed it 3 different times!


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

violadude said:


> You should learn how to write like Ken OC instead.


Well, judging by his latest avatars, prepare yourself for a mixture of Adams, Ligeti, and Webern!. I wonder if Ken would pay to see his own avant-garde music...


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Does anyone recall the adverts in magazines and on the back of matchbooks, for drawing school, those with a drawn illustration of a woman's head, saying, "Draw Me," followed by "you can have a career as a professional artist" blahbahblah?
> 
> This is one of those similar pitches, and probably similar "rackets," even if they think they offer a decent lesson plan...
> 
> ...


Participating in a Coursera class is free of charge, so it's not a "racket", I don't think. I've participated in a couple of courses through them. They are honest and the courses are generally taught by actual experts in their fields (mostly university professors).

And I'm sure the course title is intentionally somewhat facetious.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

aleazk said:


> Well, judging by his latest avatars, prepare yourself for a mixture of Adams, Ligeti, and Webern!. I wonder if Ken would pay to see his own avant-garde music...


He's just trying on lower income brackets to get a feel of how the other half lives


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

apricissimus said:


> Participating in a Coursera class is free of charge, so it's not a "racket", I don't think. I've participated in a couple of courses through them. They are honest and the courses are generally taught by actual experts in their fields (mostly university professors).
> 
> And I'm sure the course title is intentionally somewhat facetious.


The you always get what you pay for is not ALWAYS true; some people are actually quite generous with what they know, and their time in giving that to others.

The course title is just funny 

Here are some members of Ang Mo Faux, no electronics in sight, playing 
Lou Harrison ~ _Threnody for Carlos Chavez_ which if the procedures of this era are taught, is well after the "write like Mozart" course


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The courses are free but do require some time and, sometimes, outside reading (web links are usually provided for that). If you want to participate fully, you can take the exams and prepare the required essays, and if everything is OK you'll get a certificate of some kind.

I just audited the last course I took, which was offered through the Curtis Institute of Music. This new Mozart course is offered by the National University of Singapore.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2014)

Or you could always learn how to manipulate sound files on a laptop and do electroacoustic improv.

Or you could buy yourself some turntables and CD players and play them like instruments.

Or you could learn how to make electronic circuitry to produce sounds.

Or you could explore (or encourage your performer friends to explore) the sonic possibilities of their instruments beyond the band permitted by 18th and 19th century practice.

You could learn to paint and to dance and to make videos and sculptures, too.

Lots of stuff to do.

In fact, come to think of it, gotta go. I have a half-finished novel waiting for me to get off the internet and finish it. Probably be a good idea to do that.:lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't want to write like Mozart and I don't want to be buried like Mozart.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

some guy said:


> Or you could always learn how to manipulate sound files on a laptop and do electroacoustic improv.
> 
> Or you could buy yourself some turntables and CD players and play them like instruments.
> 
> ...


Or buy a book about Fluxus.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

hpowders said:


> *I don't want to write like Mozart* and I don't want to be buried like Mozart.


I don't think you'll ever have to worry about that part. I'd rather be cremated, too.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Ooops. double post.......


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I don't even think if Mozart reincarnated into another body that he would write like Mozart.... Too many variables.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2014)

Aramis said:


> Or buy a book about Fluxus.


Excellent idea. I should do that myself.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Vesuvius said:


> I don't even think if Mozart reincarnated into another body that he would write like Mozart.... Too many variables.


I've seen a documentary once about some Austrian lady that believed she IS reincarnated Mozart. She was lesbian and her partner was, supposedly, reincarnation of certain soprano with which Mozart had, supposedly, an affair. They went, with cameras, to certain place in Vienna and both started to cry "oh, here we parted in XVIIIth century! Here I told her good-bye!". Wait, why do I mention this... ah, she said that people ask her why doesn't she (that is: she the Mozart) write anymore in this life and she said it was all in fingers and the fingers are new. So yes, you're right, if Mozart composing skills were in his fingers, he wouldn't write like Mozart anymore. And I'm sure they were in the fingers indeed. Harmony in the forefinger, form in ringfinger etc.

And by the way, about these two reincarnated ladies, they were invited to infant school. As Mozart & his soprano lover, to talk to the children.

It's a interesting world we live in.

Isn't it.

Well.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Aramis said:


> And by the way, about these two reincarnated ladies, they were invited to infant school. As Mozart & his soprano lover, to talk to the children.


I find that rather charming!


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Maybe a few talented students could knock out a few extra symphonies Mozart didn't compose!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Aramis said:


> I've seen a documentary once about some Austrian lady that believed she IS reincarnated Mozart. She was lesbian and her partner was, supposedly, reincarnation of certain soprano with which Mozart had, supposedly, an affair. They went, with cameras, to certain place in Vienna and both started to cry "oh, here we parted in XVIIIth century! Here I told her good-bye!". Wait, why do I mention this... ah, she said that people ask her why doesn't she (that is: she the Mozart) write anymore in this life and she said it was all in fingers and the fingers are new. So yes, you're right, if Mozart composing skills were in his fingers, he wouldn't write like Mozart anymore. And I'm sure they were in the fingers indeed. Harmony in the forefinger, form in ringfinger etc.
> 
> And by the way, about these two reincarnated ladies, they were invited to infant school. As Mozart & his soprano lover, to talk to the children.
> 
> ...


Interesting, indeed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Just audited one of the lectures (circle of fifths progression). There seem to be about 33 lectures total, ranging from 8-15 minutes each, with musical illustrations played. Quite technical and dry. Little pop quizzes (multiple choice) are sprinkled in the lectures to make sure you're paying attention.

You will have to know standard notation and roman numeral chord descriptions, among other things, but links to on-line reference material are provided.

If you want to participate fully, that will involve homework and assignments, including composing. You will need a music notation program. But you can just audit the course if you want.

I think I'll go all the way through this one. The price is certainly right!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aramis said:


> I've seen a documentary once about some Austrian lady that believed she IS reincarnated Mozart. She was lesbian and her partner was, supposedly, reincarnation of certain soprano with which Mozart had, supposedly, an affair. They went, with cameras, to certain place in Vienna and both started to cry "oh, here we parted in XVIIIth century! Here I told her good-bye!".
> 
> *And by the way, about these two reincarnated ladies, they were invited to infant school. As Mozart & his soprano lover, to talk to the children.*


*I'm for that! It is never too early to learn and realize that some people are so self-centered that they are completely absorbed within their own self-conceits, and that sometimes that is so extreme it makes them seem completely out of their minds. This is a good life-lesson for young schoolchildren!*


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Plowing through the lectures. I now know what voice leading is, the sins of parallel fifths, the perils of parallel and "hidden" octaves, the evils of doubled leading tones, the various types of inversion (neither yoga nor sexual), the unspeakability of melodic augmented seconds, classes of textures and voicings, and similar things. A treat if you're interested in that stuff!

Did you know that heterophony is almost never encountered in classical-era music? This kind of knowledge can be handy!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I really don't think it should be packaged as "compose like Mozart."


Yeah, what self-respecting composer would want to write like Mozart? :3

But in all seriousness this does reek of scam/false-advertising. It may have some good elements, but they shouldn't be selling it as somethign it really isn't, banking on people not knowing any better. Thats scummy business practice.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Yeah, what self-respecting composer would want to write like Mozart? :3
> 
> But in all seriousness this does reek of scam/false-advertising. It may have some good elements, but they shouldn't be selling it as somethign it really isn't, banking on people not knowing any better. Thats scummy business practice.


Uh...it's free. All Coursera courses are free. There's nothing for sale. Hello?

BTW it seems to me that for anybody interested in classical-era composing practice, this particular course will be very interesting indeed.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't get the harsh reactions people post here. I am an an aspiring (amateur) composer and it has helped me a lot in terms of theory. Learning classical on your own is a drag and seeing some just doing those voice leading exercises already helped me greatly. 

The title is cheesy but come on it's for free. The guy who is giving those lectures is pretty clear about the course direction. It's an introductory course in to classical era writing which is excellent for me because I already can write jazz but not classical music


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## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Plowing through the lectures. I now know what voice leading is, the sins of parallel fifths, the perils of parallel and "hidden" octaves, the evils of doubled leading tones, the various types of inversion (neither yoga nor sexual), the unspeakability of melodic augmented seconds, classes of textures and voicings, and similar things. A treat if you're interested in that stuff!


All information you could have got from a decent general book on harmony if you had been so inclined


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Yardrax said:


> All information you could have got from a decent general book on harmony if you had been so inclined


More fun to watch it on the telly!


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## lupinix (Jan 9, 2014)

I want to write like myself again.... hopefully my teachers advice will help getting out of this stupid writersblock


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Yardrax said:


> All information you could have got from a decent general book on harmony if you had been so inclined


It helps to see someone do these things, besides it's free(all the coursera courses are free), books are not.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> It helps to see someone do these things, besides it's free(all the coursera courses are free), books are not.


Plus, of course, you can hear samples online - unless of course you have access to a keyboard. I have some (oldish) harmony textbooks - picked up second hand - and they suggest playing through your examples at the keyboard. One of them actually suggests playing by ear and then adding harmonies.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2014)

KenOC said:


> ...the sins of parallel fifths, the perils of parallel and "hidden" octaves, the evils of doubled leading tones, the various types of inversion (neither yoga nor sexual), the unspeakability of melodic augmented seconds....


If your tongue is not firmly in your teeth, then I have to conclude that you listen to very little actual music by actual composers.



KenOC said:


> Did you know that heterophony is almost never encountered in classical-era music? This kind of knowledge can be handy!


Serialism, either. And turntables and CD players were non-existent.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

lupinix said:


> I want to write like myself again.... hopefully my teachers advice will help getting out of this stupid writersblock


I loved this, from a professional composer acquaintance, the actual practice of it doesn't quite work for me, but the spirit does, and has sometimes helped if I am stuck....

"Choose some notes and write them down. You can always change them."

The above is similar to this other I have never forgotten, from a theory teacher,
"Draw a plan of the piece; notes, or a graphic, or just shapes. Then at least you have something to deviate from."


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Uh...it's free. All Coursera courses are free. There's nothing for sale. Hello?
> 
> BTW it seems to me that for anybody interested in classical-era composing practice, this particular course will be very interesting indeed.


What exactly is Coursera? I want to learn how to become a better composer, but I'm not registered with the site. Can anyone just take classes from that website for fun, or what?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Did you know that heterophony is almost never encountered in classical-era music? This kind of knowledge can be handy!


Meanwhile, during the same era, throughout Asia....


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

musicrom said:


> What exactly is Coursera? I want to learn how to become a better composer, but I'm not registered with the site. Can anyone just take classes from that website for fun, or what?


Answer: Yes. Here's the link to the course mentioned in this thread.

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp


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## lupinix (Jan 9, 2014)

PetrB said:


> I loved this, from a professional composer acquaintance, the actual practice of it doesn't quite work for me, but the spirit does, and has sometimes helped if I am stuck....
> 
> "Choose some notes and write them down. You can always change them."
> 
> ...


Thanks ^^
I will try 
though the real problem is that I dont have ideas/reasons for writing, rather that though I have so many ideas I seem not to be able to work them out and really compose something out of it for the past (one or two little things but I dont feel them as much as I used to)
but well, I guess its gonna be alright, just a chaotic period thing I guess 

also sorry its kind of off topic, I just didnt know what to think of 'compose like mozart' (or any composer) and then thought of it


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

some guy said:


> If your tongue is not firmly in your teeth, then I have to conclude that you listen to very little actual music by actual composers.
> 
> Serialism, either. And turntables and CD players were non-existent.


They talk about the fact that those things don't sound stylistically appropriate for classical era music and that is the subject of the course. It's the same stuff any full time music student needs to learn.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Piwikiwi said:


> They talk about the fact that those things don't sound stylistically appropriate for classical era music and that is the subject of the course. It's the same stuff any full time music student needs to learn.


Indeed! The whole idea is classical-era style, which is very restrictive in some ways. The instructor points out that these rules don't apply to music of other cultures (gamelan is specifically mentioned), jazz, pop/rock, Debussy, and so forth. It seems strange to criticize the course on those grounds.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Only good can come of learning. As long as a variety of sources and views are used. The course being talked about here seems pretty good for gaining some insight to the compositional practices of the classical era.

Composition is to some degree a matter of problem solving. Throughout history, student composers have been made to study such things as _species counterpoint_. A very restrictive and limiting set of rules helps to develop ones compositional 'muscles'.

The narrower the 'brief' the more the focus is concentrated.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Indeed! The whole idea is classical-era style, which is very restrictive in some ways. The instructor points out that these rules don't apply to music of other cultures (gamelan is specifically mentioned), jazz, pop/rock, Debussy, and so forth. It seems strange to criticize the course on those grounds.


Um. I was not criticizing the course at all on any ground in that comment of mine. I was being sarcastic about your comment about heterophony. Of course it's not found in classical era. Aside from all the Asian stuff from forever ago, for classical music it was a twentieth century thing, hence my reference to serialism.

Nothing to do with the course at all. (It seems strange to realign my remark to make it point to something it doesn't really point to.)


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2014)

Petwhac said:


> Only good can come of learning.


As a teacher, I cannot agree with this. Actually, I don't even have to be a teacher to disagree with this. But apparently I thought it might be a good idea to mention that.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> Only good can come of learning.


IF (mammoth_if_, that) the teacher is a good teacher and the student is a good student.

The "Only good can come of learning" generalization rather belies the rarer incidence of good teacher / good student lining up each and every time.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

It's too difficult/impossible to write like the *originality* of many Mozart pieces. It might be easy to write like other composers, a point which I have mentioned several times before in other threads, but as for the great Mozart, I wouldn't dare assume.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> It's too difficult/impossible to write like the *originality* of many Mozart pieces. It might be easy to write like other composers, a point which I have mentioned several times before in other threads, but as for the great Mozart, I wouldn't dare assume.


The title only means that you learn some basics in the Classical style.


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