# Mozart and Salieri co-composition rediscovered



## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

> A musical composition co-written by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Antonio Salieri was found after more than 200 years by employees of the Czech Museum of Music in Prague.
> 
> The work will be presented to the media next week.


Link to the article.

Interesting that these two "rivals" actually worked together on a piece.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Looks interesting - not much info in the article though.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Interesting. If I have understood correctly, Mozart and Salieri were not much of rivals. In terms of piano performance and piano composition, Clementi was much more a rival to Mozart and Kozeluch in terms of reputation, employment, and mutual enmity.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

A bit more information here http://www.mozarteum.at/en/content/news/276

+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Storace


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## Lyricus (Dec 11, 2015)

clavichorder said:


> Interesting. If I have understood correctly, Mozart and Salieri were not much of rivals. In terms of piano performance and piano composition, Clementi was much more a rival to Mozart and Kozeluch in terms of reputation, employment, and mutual enmity.


Not sure about the enmity part. I thought Clementi was a big fan of Mozart, though Mozart didn't care for his compositions much.

But yeah, Salieri and Mozart weren't adversaries. I'm not sure that was even a belief until _Amadeus_ came around.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

The way I wrote that wasn't clear. I meant Mozart and Kozeluch with regards to enmity. Mozart had some professional jealousy regarding the technical skill of Clementi that led him to make overly harsh remarks on what he chose to see as Clementi's lack of musicality, but I think Clementi was oblivious or impervious to this.

The Czech composer Kozeluch on the other hand hated Mozart and Mozart likewise regarded him with contempt.

Regarding the myth of Mozart and Salieri, I think that actually had its origins in a 19th century play.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Lyricus said:


> I'm not sure that was even a belief until _Amadeus_ came around.


I was unaware of it till another forum member brought it up recently, but Pushkin actually has a short play from 1830 on the exact theme of the Schaffer play and subsequent film. It differs in many important details, but the similarities can't be accidental. Here it is, in case anyone would like to read it:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Salieri

Rimsky-Korsakov's opera "Mozart and Salieri" is based on the Pushkin version.

This is all by the way: Pushkin isn't any more reliable about the historical Mozart and Salieri than Schaffer.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Blancrocher beat me to it...


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't know if Mozart felt "threatened" by Clementi but he was well aware of his abilities. Beethoven acknowledged respect and admiration for Clementi's keyboard wizardry. His OP 33/3 and 34/2 are masterpieces. Now had Clementi killed Mozart, THAT would make a compelling movie.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

clavichorder said:


> The way I wrote that wasn't clear. I meant Mozart and Kozeluch with regards to enmity. Mozart had some professional jealousy regarding the technical skill of Clementi that led him to make overly harsh remarks on what he chose to see as Clementi's lack of musicality, but I think Clementi was oblivious or impervious to this.


Maybe, but Mozart always had pretty high ideals on taste vs. tastelessness in musicianship. He did say in one letter to his father that he had no time for "difficulties" or what he thought were vapid displays of virtuosity. Clementi and Mozart represented the highest technical keyboard skill but from two very different backgrounds of style. Mozart was more likely annoyed that his more subdued playing, which could be flashy when he wanted to be, mostly was appreciated and respected by the connoisseurs but never sent the average person into fits of frenzied, primal admiration the way Clementi or Liszt's piano playing would.


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## hagridindminor (Nov 5, 2015)

clavichorder said:


> The way I wrote that wasn't clear. I meant Mozart and Kozeluch with regards to enmity. Mozart had some professional jealousy regarding the technical skill of Clementi that led him to make overly harsh remarks on what he chose to see as Clementi's lack of musicality, but I think Clementi was oblivious or impervious to this.
> 
> The Czech composer Kozeluch on the other hand hated Mozart and Mozart likewise regarded him with contempt.
> 
> Regarding the myth of Mozart and Salieri, I think that actually had its origins in a 19th century play.


Thats Mozart being a spoiled brat for you and not wanting anyone to be near his level of skill. Lol


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

trazom said:


> Maybe, *but Mozart always had pretty high ideals on taste vs. tastelessness in musicianship. He did say in one letter to his father that he had no time for "difficulties" or what he thought were vapid displays of virtuosity. *Clementi and Mozart represented the highest technical keyboard skill but from two very different backgrounds of style. Mozart was more likely annoyed that his more subdued playing, which could be flashy when he wanted to be, mostly was appreciated and respected by the connoisseurs but never sent the average person into fits of frenzied, primal admiration the way Clementi or Liszt's piano playing would.


There's a pretty good hint for how Mozart would have wanted his sonatas to be played - he once wrote to his sister "now do not give up your soft and quiet way of playing"

There may well have been a trend towards flashiness and fortissimo style that M considered tasteless - goodness knows what he would have thought of Beethoven's hammerklavier sonata. I must admit it often galls my ears to hear the way many pianists tackle mozart which heavy handed beethovian treatment. I also stuggle with a lot of romantic piano music. The modern piano is quite a beast.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> I was unaware of it till another forum member brought it up recently, but Pushkin actually has a short play from 1830 on the exact theme of the Schaffer play and subsequent film. It differs in many important details, but the similarities can't be accidental. Here it is, in case anyone would like to read it:
> 
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Salieri
> 
> ...


Pushkin fed upon reports in a german rag that Salieri had admitted poisoning Mozart (they later retracted this story). A good writer will of course never allow the truth to get in the way of a good story. In the little play Salieri actually rationalises his killing of Mozart as a service to humanity.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> A bit more information here http://www.mozarteum.at/en/content/news/276
> 
> + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Storace


Many thanks for the Mozarteum link; that answers many many questions that were skipped over in the other articles I've seen.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2016)

And I do believe that Salieri also gave Beethoven a hand during the premier of the latter's Battle Symphony.


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