# BARITONE BATTLE: Hvorostovsky v Merrill



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Hello TC Fam! I hope those of you who celebrate Thanksgiving had a nice one 

I got the idea that it might be fun to compare singers in various arias head-to-head! Especially since we've been digging deeper into what makes for truly great singing.

I don't know if anyone will enjoy the idea, but if it goes well perhaps we can do more, maybe even tournament style! An 8 singer tournament would be fun wouldn't it??

Dmitri Hvorostovsky, Russia, 1962-2017






Robert Merrill, USA, 1917-2004






What say you? Who sang it better?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

My reasoning:
Merrill's beautiful voice is the more powerful and strong baritone of the two but Dimi's lighter sound has much more expression in his voice and for me emotion trumps power any day.
BTW: Neither sang it better than the other. They were both stellar. It is a matter of personal preference and for me Hvorostovsky's voice is the more fulfilling.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

"Trademark" gasping breath of DH is what usually puts me off his singing, beautiful tone and all.
RM is more relaxed and, as result, his voice carries better.

Still, I do not know how both recordings were taken, looks like DH has to use more power to project the sound than RM.
Is RM one recorded on stage or in a studio set?


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I think the idea of a sort of tournament sounds fun, as long as we all agree that it is for fun. We could have one aria per round. Il balen is a perfect aria since virtually everyone except Battistini recorded it (unless I've missed it) and there are a few others that pretty much every important singer has done, like Si puo and Cortigiani, and Largo al factotum.

As for this one, I can't say I loved either of these performances. In terms of voice production, it's Merrill in a rout no question. His phrasing is somewhat choppy though, and he almost sounds like he's struggling to sustain the line in places. Hvorostovsky isn't any better though, because he way overacts it in my opinion. Dramatically, I see this aria in two parts: the first is a slower, more aristocratic reminiscence of her celestial beauty, while the second part, starting at the second occurrence "Ah l'amore" is essentially a drinking song and should be sung up tempo and with gusto. He's a Count, but he's also not in control of his emotions "la tempesta". I find Hvorostovsky overplays the first part, and underplays the second. His "Sperda il sole" is almost inaudible and he isn't even singing there, just breathing loudly, and there's not enough oomph in his voice to make the second section more than a chore. I hear no "tempesta" at all. There are a couple nice moments though in the first section, and he's definitely much better than say Lucio Gallo... Overall I'd say Merrill, but Gino Bechi has it all in this aria, imo.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I liked them both, but if I ultimately voted for Hvorostovsky, it's because he seemed more involved and remembered it is a love song. Merrill had the more beautiful tone, but hardly varied it. Of course the Hovrostovsky was taken from a stage performance and the Merrill looks as if it were taken out of context, perhaps from a tv show, and this could have something to do with his seeming lack of involvement.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I had to go with Hvorostovsky, more for musical/dramatic involvement than for vocal quality. Some of H's effects don't come off, but at least he's doing something. Merrill is choppy and perfunctory.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I find that Merrill has the better voice; Hvorostovsky is too emotional for me.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Deleted post......!


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Yes, I like this idea. We should do more! 

I agree with those who say Hvorostovsky puts more emotion into the performance, but I personally am not too fond of his voice, too nasally or something. Merrill had a better voice to my ears, but his performance did seem kind of dull. Not sure who to pick, honestly.

Edit: Gave them another listen and picked Hvorostovsky. Merrill was just too boring.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

adriesba said:


> Merrill was just too boring.


I suspect he got involved in a Yankees game after singing the national anthem and forgot he had to appear on TV that night until the last minute, when he called a cab and rushed to NBC studios. He probably didn't miss too much of the game.

Merrill did open many Yankees games. He once said that "The Star-Spangled Banner" should be sung straight, and disliked the way modern singers mucked around with it. I don't know... It's a pretty crummy anthem.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

I have Merrill in the Solti Rigoletto and he is absolutely marvellous. People said he was dull but nothing dull about that performance at all.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I suspect he got involved in a Yankees game after singing the national anthem and forgot he had to appear on TV that night until the last minute, when he called a cab and rushed to NBC studios. He probably didn't miss too much of the game.
> 
> Merrill did open many Yankees games. He once said that "The Star-Spangled Banner" should be sung straight, and disliked the way modern singers mucked around with it. I don't know... It's a pretty crummy anthem.


Presumably he also thought Verdi should be sung straight ie with no expression whatsoever, not even the expression Verdi wrote into it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

At least one of them is a Verdi singer. The other, a Verdi killer.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I know he's not up for discussion here, but I suspect that De Luca would win hands down if he were included in the competition.






It's also interesting to follow along with the score and note how many times Verdi asks for the singer to sing _pianissimo_ and _dolce_, injunctions that Merrill ignores completely. Hovrostovsly at least tries to respond to some of Verdi's markings.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It was a different vocal world back then. But I wonder why De Luca avoids the melismatic cadenzas. He doesn't sound incapable of executing them. Did Verdi himself provide the simpler option on "tempesta," or was that an editor's work?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> It was a different vocal world back then. But I wonder why De Luca avoids the melismatic cadenzas. He doesn't sound incapable of executing them. Did Verdi himself provide the simpler option on "tempesta," or was that an editor's work?


Budden says nothing about it in his _The Operas of Verdi_, though he does comment on how the aria starts in normal baritone country but rises to almost temporal heights towards the end, which is why so many baritones fear the role.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I know he's not up for discussion here, but I suspect that De Luca would win hands down if he were included in the competition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my favorite versions, but de Luca avoids the most difficult notes in the piece for whatever reason. Lets save de Luca and other baritones please. If we went further this was a version I was going to include in the next faceoff.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> One of my favorite versions, but de Luca avoids the most difficult notes in the piece for whatever reason. Lets save de Luca and other baritones please. If we went further this was a version I was going to include in the next faceoff.


Apologies. Will try not to stray in the future.

Regarding the two performances selected for comparison, clearly the majority prefer Merrill, but I find it lacking in poetry, monochromatic and rather dull. He probably has a better instrument than Hvorostovsky but he doesn't do anything with it, which is why I prefer Hvorostovsky's more nuanced interpretation, though it's still not ideal


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

I’m absolutely unable to choose. Like some others, I also think Hvorostovsky’s interpretation is more effective and his singing more engaged. Merrill on the other hand has a more beautiful voice and he doesn’t gasp like Hvorostovsky (Hvorostovsky didn’t have that problem always. I wonder what caused it....). I need to think a bit more before choosing.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I agree with the general consensus here. DH is more engaged and gives a more nuanced performance, but I'm a voice first kind of guy and Merrill has DH beaten in that regard by a huge margin imo. An insurmountable one for me. I consider Merrill to have the most beautiful baritone on record and DH's artificially darkened singing to be off putting.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Budden says nothing about it in his _The Operas of Verdi_, though he does comment on how the aria starts in normal baritone country but rises to almost temporal heights towards the end, which is why so many baritones fear the role.


Would you recommend this book to a singer exploring Verdi roles?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

What do you guys think of this? We let the poll run for a week, then begin a new one? Maybe every Monday we can start a fresh one and do the tournament format? Each round of the tournament focusing on a new aria as Viva suggested? Then when the tournament is done we can start a new tournament with a different voice type? 

Also, I think we should get a good mix of modern and historic singers. For example in this tournament:

1. Hvorostovsky
2. Merrill
3. de Luca
4. Tezier
5. Stracciari
6. Milnes
7. Bastianini
8. Ruffo

Thoughts? Is 8 a good number? Could be expanded to 16 to include more arias and more singers...

9. Tibbett
10. Cappuccilli
11. Kelsey
12. Granforte
13. Warren
14. Gobbi
15. Bechi
16. Battistini (can we find a way to include him even without an il balen recording?)

Am I forgetting anyone who should be here?


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

^ Sounds great, Bonetan ! I like this idea a lot and I think it’s a great way to get better acquainted with the style of different singers. What I really appreciated about this particular “battle” is that it gave room for discussion and different views.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> What do you guys think of this? We let the poll run for a week, then begin a new one? Maybe every Sunday we can start a fresh one and do the tournament format? Each round of the tournament focusing on a new aria as Viva suggested? Then when the tournament is done we can start a new tournament with a different voice type?
> 
> Also, I want to get a good mix of modern and historic singers? For example in this tournament:
> 
> ...


I like the plan. One aria per week sounds good. 8 singers at a time seems not too unwieldy.

I love to hear people's impressions of singers of the same voice type doing the same aria. I don't know a better way to study singing from a listener's point of view, and it can certainly be helpful to singers as well. Back in the 1960s High Fidelity magazine had an article by the venerable Conrad L. Osborne comparing baritones from the early 78rpm era up through his day, using "Eri tu" fom _Un Ballo in Maschera_ as the main musical test piece. Osborne had an exceptional ability to describe singer's voices and technical characteristics, and that essay was so enlightening and provocative that I went out and bought recordings of Battistini, Amato, and Stracciari and discovered in one easy lesson what great singing sounds like.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Yes, Bonetan, I like this idea! Are you thinking we would compare eight singers in one week or eight over the course of a month? I would love to do a comparison with Warren and Gobbi!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> Am I forgetting anyone who should be here?


Panerai? I really like his Di Luna on the first Karajan recording.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> What do you guys think of this? We let the poll run for a week, then begin a new one? Maybe every Monday we can start a fresh one and do the tournament format? Each round of the tournament focusing on a new aria as Viva suggested? Then when the tournament is done we can start a new tournament with a different voice type?
> 
> Also, I think we should get a good mix of modern and historic singers. For example in this tournament:
> 
> ...


It completely depends how much time you want to give to it and on the repertoire you'd like to cover: it could probably go on and on :lol:. Perhaps some of these are interesting/controversial for generating discussion?

Ancients
Pasquale Amato

LP
*Rolando Panerai *
*Giuseppe Taddei 
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau* 
*Cornell MacNeil *
*Giorgio Zancanaro*
Matteo Manuguerra

More recent
*Renato Bruson*
*Leo Nucci
Thomas Hampson
Placido Domingo*
Simon Keenlyside
Ambrogio Maestri

If we are including translations then *Heinrich Schlusnus* or *Josef Metternich* in German




and *Pavel Lisitsian* in Russian can be worth a listen





Edit: *Bold* have recorded Trovatore complete or Il Balen


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> What do you guys think of this? We let the poll run for a week, then begin a new one? Maybe every Monday we can start a fresh one and do the tournament format? Each round of the tournament focusing on a new aria as Viva suggested? Then when the tournament is done we can start a new tournament with a different voice type?
> 
> Also, I think we should get a good mix of modern and historic singers. For example in this tournament:
> 
> ...


Is there a particular reason that, except for Kelsey, there are no current baritones like Lucic, Finley, Mattei, Keenleyside?
(Take a look at the restrained performance of Lucic's Jack Rance in "La Fanciulla del West" with Westbroek and Kaufmann. No phony acting just pure sincerity in depth of character.)


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

We can always do another tournament with different baritones in the future. I would suggest we go with 8 for now.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

nina foresti said:


> Is there a particular reason that, except for Kelsey, there are no current baritones like Lucic, Finley, Mattei, Keenlyside?


I don't believe that they've performed or recorded "Il balen".


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

annaw said:


> I'm absolutely unable to choose. Like some others, I also think Hvorostovsky's interpretation is more effective and his singing more engaged. Merrill on the other hand has a more beautiful voice and he doesn't gasp like Hvorostovsky (Hvorostovsky didn't have that problem always. I wonder what caused it....).


I heard Hvorostovsky about a half dozen times at various points in his career, and his intakes of breath were always distressingly audible, as was the lack of brilliance of his top notes. Certainly he was a more imaginative and nuanced singer than Merrill, but I care more about sheer vocalism, and in that respect it's no contest.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> I heard Hvorostovsky about a half dozen times at various points in his career, and his intakes of breath were always distressingly audible, as was the lack of brilliance of his top notes. Certainly he was a more imaginative and nuanced singer than Merrill, but I care more about sheer vocalism, and in that respect it's no contest.


In fact, he had these gasping intakes of breath right from the beginning of his career.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Azol said:


> In fact, he had these gasping intakes of breath right from the beginning of his career.


Those "gasping intakes of breath" you speak of were because he was a smoker but after he quit so did the G I of B.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> Is there a particular reason that, except for Kelsey, there are no current baritones like Lucic, Finley, Mattei, Keenleyside?
> (Take a look at the restrained performance of Lucic's Jack Rance in "La Fanciulla del West" with Westbroek and Kaufmann. No phony acting just pure sincerity in depth of character.)





wkasimer said:


> I don't believe that they've performed or recorded "Il balen".


This is the answer. I also included Tezier who I believe is regarded as the best Verdi baritone of the moment.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> I heard Hvorostovsky about a half dozen times at various points in his career, and his intakes of breath were always distressingly audible, as was the lack of brilliance of his top notes. Certainly he was a more imaginative and nuanced singer than Merrill, but I care more about sheer vocalism, and in that respect it's no contest.


Even if that vocalism is all at one level and ignores pretty much all of Verdi's copious markings? How can that be considered an accurate execution of the score? Not that Hvorostovsky's version is perfect, but at least I feel he is trying to carry out Verdi's intentions, where Merrill's performance is just a fine voice singing a wonderful tune.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> Would you recommend this book to a singer exploring Verdi roles?


It's actually three volumes. Volume 1 covers the operas from *Oberto* to *Rigoletto*, Volume 2 *Il Trovatore* to *La Forza del Destino* and Volume 3 *Don Carlo* to *Falstaff*. Each opera is given one chapter, with even separate chapters for *Jérusalem * and *Aroldo*, which were reworkings of *I Lombardi* and *Stiffelio*. Each volume starts with chapters on Verdi's development and each individual chapter on each opera details the cicumstances of its composition before embarking on a fairly detailed assessment of the opera itself with copious musical examples. It's probably the most scholarly and detailed publication ever written on Verdi, but his writing style is not at all stuffy and anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of music should be able to enjoy it.

I'd recommend it to anyone (singers, conductors, musicologists or just Verdi enthusiasts) who loves Verdi.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Osborne had an exceptional ability to describe singer's voices and technical characteristics, and that essay was so enlightening and provocative that I went out and bought recordings of Battistini, Amato, and Stracciari and discovered in one easy lesson what great singing sounds like.


He still does and has his own blog, which is worth following.

http://conradlosborne.com/


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Quote Originally Posted by wkasimer 
"I don't believe that they've performed or recorded "Il balen"."

Say, that's a pretty good reason.:tiphat:

PS. I challenge anyone to hear Hvorostovsky's gasping intakes of breath on this "Il balen" aria. It was after he stopped smoking when he did this.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Since I am late to this party, I purposely did not look at any responses before making my comments. I think it's a tie. Merrill's dark, effortless sound is lovely but he does seem to rather toss off this aria, and takes some needless breaths that break up the line. He could do better but was awfully sloppy in some of his singing. Nonetheless, I do love his natural instrument.

Dima, on the other hand, does the opposite. He sounds like a giant iron lung, and the very first phrase where he ties three lines together draws one's attention to his breathing. (I remember what a sensation he caused at the 1989 Cardiff Singer of the World competition (he won) where he sang endlessly long phrases of the Don Carlo death scene, "Io morró, ma lieto in core.") But not long after he begins, you hear him audibly breathing, or gasping, to bring in as much air as quickly as possible. This is a definite sign of a vocal flaw and very distracting from the aria. Nonetheless he does what both Merrill and (in BB #2) Bastianini do not, which is to linger on the money notes, the Gs in this case. 

Now that I have written my response, I note the comment from nina above on the same issue.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

with respect to the late Hvorostovsky, this is not even a contest.


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