# "Learning" to Like New Works



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm interested in people's experiences in coming to like works that they previously had disliked. I think there are several ways this can happen including:

1) Reading/learning about a particular work to understand more about the composer's intent or more about details of the piece.
2) Repeated listening. 
a) Hearing the work over and over several or many times.
b) Repeated listening with a specific intent to hear more detail within the work. This only differs with (a) in that you begin listening with a specific purpose in mind (e.g. to listen to the cello line in a string quartet). I'm not good at this so I may not have great examples.
3) Listening to similar works in a genre over a period of time. Listening to various dissonant works may make hearing a new dissonant work more enjoyable.
4) Other methods?

I'd love to hear people discuss a particular work that they came to enjoy and why/how they think that happened. If anyone wants to discuss "learning" to enjoy a composer (or even a genre) rather than a work, I'd love to hear about that as well.

In general, #3 above seems to have helped me enjoy some more dissonant (compared to Romantic, not compared to much of modern) works of modern music. General listening has allowed me to hear works as less jarring and appreciate (or even hear) the beauty more. The first couple of times I heard The Rite of Spring, I definitely did not enjoy it. After hearing _much_ more modern music, I listened again to The Rite and found no parts unpleasant and many parts quite nice. I don't view it as the great work many others do, but my appreciation has increased enormously.

I have not had much luck with "learning" to like particular works. My one great success was Beethoven's Grosse Fuge. When I first heard it, it was not awful but clearly not enjoyable. I listened repeatedly focusing on hearing the fugal lines of each instrument. Eventually each line seemed beautiful and finally the whole piece seemed to fall into place. I now view it as my favorite Beethoven quartet and one of my favorite quartets from any composer.

I'd appreciate anyone sharing similar journeys coming to like or love previously disliked works/composers/genres.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

4) Try and play the piece yourself.

This one works better than anything else for me. Just like OP, I disliked the Grosse Fuge at first; in fact, I didn't begin liking it even after listening to it dozens of times. But once I decided to play a transcribed version for the piano, it instantly became my 2nd favorite fugue.

Then I applied this method to 20th century music (e.g. some of the recommendations I got here) and it instantly worked for those too. Though I frankly have no clue why this works so well.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

My own "strategy" has been to have no strategy at all. In other words, I come to like previously disliked works by accident, rather than by repeated effort. Although it could possibly work in some instances, and may work for others more than it does for me, I find it quite off-putting and difficult to maintain the _intention_ of coming to like a work while listening to it. Instead, I stay aware of pieces I dislike that have good reputations and come back to them periodically to see if my perception of the piece changes. If it does change for the better, then there are many things in the intervening months that could have happened, but I don't approach the issue with any particular tactics. I just think, "let's give that one another try", and sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised for reasons I don't know.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I had a hard time making _any_ sense of the Grosse Fugue, until I heard it in the place it belongs, the finale of Op. 130. Then I heard and recognized the themes from the other movements, and the basis for the fugue became apparent.

The piano sonatas of Benjamin Lees took a couple listens to get into, but then I had enough grasp of his idioms to appreciate his string quartets. It seems that, if the composer has enough works 'out there' to be heard, there will be a key among them that opens the lock. That process would probably work for Bartók, if one struggles with the string quartets.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

1. Listen in bed, in the dark, with headphones, eyes closed.

The most intimate and absorbing way to listen to music, to discover new music and to me also the most important way to discover what I really feel about the music.
Music that is simply too ugly or annoying will also quickly become apparent this way.

2. Listen intensively over a longer period of time. For example once or twice a day for a month or more.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

I find if I show "good will" to a piece of music by approaching it with an open mind and trying to let go of any baggage that I might have then I can like most all music to some degree.
I think repeated listening is a simple strategy and can help one become familiar with music and overcome any barriers resulting from a piece simply sounding "new".
I really like it when I suddenly come to the realization that I like a piece of music I previously found difficult - sometimes it just happens for no apparent reason which is a wonderful feeling!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Conor71 said:


> I find if I show "good will" to a piece of music by approaching it with an open mind and trying to let go of any baggage that I might have then I can like most all music to some degree.
> I think repeated listening is a simple strategy and can help one become familiar with music and overcome any barriers resulting from a piece simply sounding "new".
> I really like it when I suddenly come to the realization that I like a piece of music I previously found difficult - sometimes it just happens for no apparent reason which is a wonderful feeling!


Repeated,'intensive' listening may, depending on how your minds works, be contraindicated. If I listen to a work so often that I 'know' it, approximately 93.2% of the pleasure in hearing it is gone. If you have that problem, you know who you are.

The classic example is Beethoven's 5th Symphony; I very much appreciate the music, but have to avoid hearing it for years at a time, so that when I _do_ hear it some of the details are 'semi-new' again.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

DeepR said:


> 1. Listen in bed, in the dark, with headphones, eyes closed.
> 
> The most intimate and absorbing way to listen to music, to discover new music and to me also the most important way to discover what I really feel about the music.
> Music that is simply too ugly or annoying will also quickly become apparent this way.
> ...


What a dreadful idea.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Repeated,'intensive' listening may, depending on how your minds works, be contraindicated. If I listen to a work so often that I 'know' it, approximately 93.2% of the pleasure in hearing it is gone. If you have that problem, you know who you are.
> 
> The classic example is Beethoven's 5th Symphony; I very much appreciate the music, but have to avoid hearing it for years at a time, so that when I _do_ hear it some of the details are 'semi-new' again.


Yes I agree repeated listening could have a negative effect depending on the individual!
Personally speaking I love the familiar and tend not to be so interested in novelty so re-listening to well known pieces is generally a pleasure


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

moody said:


> What a dreadful idea.


Hah. _DeepR_'s #1 is an attractive notion. I have tried it several times over the years, except in a darkened liviingroom, in a recliner. Unfortunately, I invariably doze off; which throws a serious hitch into the plan.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

My own "strategy" has been to have no strategy at all. In other words, I come to like previously disliked works by accident, rather than by repeated effort. Although it could possibly work in some instances, and may work for others more than it does for me, I find it quite off-putting and difficult to maintain the intention of coming to like a work while listening to it. Instead, I stay aware of pieces I dislike that have good reputations and come back to them periodically to see if my perception of the piece changes. If it does change for the better, then there are many things in the intervening months that could have happened, but I don't approach the issue with any particular tactics. I just think, "let's give that one another try", and sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised for reasons I don't know.

I'm going to have to say that my "strategy" is much the same as Polednice's "non-strategy". I like some music and I dislike other music (and a lot of music simply falls somewhere in the middle) and I see no reason to attempt to force myself into liking something just because someone else has insisted as to its brilliance. I actually do have a very broad range of music that I do like for the simple reason that I like a variety. I can listen to a Byzantine chant followed by an opera by Massenet, move on to a string quartet by Haydn, then a bit of Thelonius Monk and Muddy Waters, on to Steve Reich, and then some Stanley Brothers. Nevertheless, there is much I have no use for (Rap, Heavy Metal, most Pop, that pseudo-country music that's really just pop with an accent, a good deal of the more experimental strains of contemporary "classical" music, etc...). I try not to judge without giving the music a chance... and if it doesn't resonate with me on the first hearing I'll commonly give it another chance or two owing to the possibility that I just wasn't in the mood, etc... If others whose opinions I value continue to champion something I dislike, I may even give more attempts... try alternative recordings, etc...

I found, for example, that this worked with Purcell's _Dido and Aeneas_. I had purchased the highly-recommended recording featuring Janet Baker... but I really couldn't stand her interpretation of the role... in spite of the fact that I generally love her. Eventually, I picked up an HIP recording of the work, and immediately fell in love with it.

Beyond this... I don't make any concerted effort to get myself to like what I don't like... beyond, as Polednice suggests... giving another listen after the passage of a period of time to see if perhaps my opinion has changed. I don't like Lima Beans or Liver and Onions and I'm not about to engage in any Pavlovian experiment of eating nothing but for a week or two until (perhaps) I may actually start to like it. Neither do I see any value in making some concerted effort to develop an abiding love for Schoenberg, Ligeti, or Stockhausen. There's just too much other music that I do love that I would rather be spending my time with.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I always find success with new works when I have a full orchestral score to analyze while listening.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I personally think the best example for me is Mahler's second symphony. The first time I heard it, I was completely uninterested and didn't give it a second thought. This was due to several reasons...poor audio quality, a bad performance in general, wasn't paying full attention to it, and wasn't really in the mood fro that kind of music. Later I decided I'd give it a second chance and pay a bit more attention to it; I had never listened to anything by Mahler before then and wanted to give him a fair chance. The second go-around, I noticed much more of what was going on in all the movements, and decided to go check out a halfway decent recording. I also looked it up on google and found a description of what each movement was meant to represent. Once I found a good recording and listened to it in full, the whole thing hit me like a brick! To this day it's my favorite piece of music.


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

Often times when we revisit a piece of music, we tend to expect the same things we heard before and listen in the same manner as we did during the first listening. If your first experience with a piece of music was a bad one, than you have to find a new way of listening to it in order to appreciate it.

I remember listening to the first movement of _Mahler's 5th_ at least two dozen times, desperatley trying to find a programmatic meaning to it all because it made no formal sense to me. Then one time I tried forgetting that I had ever heard the piece before, and as I listened to the opening trumpet fanfare I discovered that the phrases seemed to regroup in a different manner in my mind, and as I listened to the rest of the movement the thematic transformation of those opening bars finally made sense to me.

Long story short, listen to it as if it was your first time again and let your mind comprehend it how it wants to without forcing yourself to see it a certain way. Hope it helps you like it helped me.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think I am most like Conor. I just have an open mind about whatever piece I am listening to. I try to come to terms with the composer and their composition instead of setting my own strict standard to judge pieces across genres. It works for me I guess...


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm surprised by some of the posts here. I've always found that "listening techniques" (or whatever you want to call them) are fundamental to an enjoyment of classical music - even if it just means listening several times or listening extra carefully. When I first tried classical music, the only works I liked on first hearing were the Brandenburg Concertos. If I hadn't made a deliberate effort to appreciate other compositions - i.e. listen repeatedly to them, try different recordings, read about them, sometimes look at the score - I'd never have gotten anywhere. Maybe it's different for people who are brought up on classical music, I don't know.

Particularly with longer works, I almost always "get lost" the first time I hear them. It takes quite a lot of time and effort before I develop a subconscious map of the work so that I can enjoy it properly.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Webernite said:


> I'm surprised by some of the posts here. I've always found that "listening techniques" (or whatever you want to call them) are fundamental to an enjoyment of classical music - even if it just means listening several times or listening extra carefully. When I first tried classical music, the only works I liked on first hearing were the Brandenburg Concertos. If I hadn't made a deliberate effort to appreciate other compositions - i.e. listen repeatedly to them, try different recordings, read about them, sometimes look at the score - I'd never have gotten anywhere. Maybe it's different for people who are brought up on classical music, I don't know.
> 
> Particularly with longer works, I almost always "get lost" the first time I hear them. It takes quite a lot of time and effort before I develop a subconscious map of the work so that I can enjoy it properly.


I've found that with myself the ability to "develop a subconscious map of the work so that I can enjoy it properly", as you put it, is like a muscle and it gets stronger and, in this particular case, faster over time. Has it been so with you?


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

violadude said:


> I've found that with myself the ability to "develop a subconscious map of the work so that I can enjoy it properly", as you put it, is like a muscle and it gets stronger and, in this particular case, faster over time. Has it been so with you?


I'm definitely better at it now than I was when I first started listening to classical music, so I'd say yes.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Olias said:


> I always find success with new works when I have a full orchestral score to analyze while listening.


I would point out that most of us--I would guess----can't read music.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

When I hear works I don't immediately like but want to "learn" to like it, I sometimes close my eyes and try to imagine it as a soundtrack/score to a film and what kind of film it would be, what would happen as the music progresses, or what it would look like if someone had choreographed dance pieces to the music. It may sound weird but I think a lot in images, so to me it makes perfect sense.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening / Repeated Listening.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't know how to answer. But I can tell you that for most of the pieces that I love now, I have never imagined, in the first listen, that those pieces would be my favorites now.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Webernite said:


> I'm surprised by some of the posts here. I've always found that "listening techniques" (or whatever you want to call them) are fundamental to an enjoyment of classical music - even if it just means listening several times or listening extra carefully. When I first tried classical music, the only works I liked on first hearing were the Brandenburg Concertos. If I hadn't made a deliberate effort to appreciate other compositions - i.e. listen repeatedly to them, try different recordings, read about them, sometimes look at the score - I'd never have gotten anywhere. Maybe it's different for people who are brought up on classical music, I don't know.


I was not brought up on classical music and only came to it well after college. For me almost all classical music has been very easy to like/love with one notable exception - modern music. One of the things that has surprised me most on TC is that people who love classical music do not like certain composers throughout history (Bach. Mozart, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, etc.) For me all the "major" and most minor composers were immediately likable. I just had to listen to the works that were considered "good" works (i.e. from compilations of the "canon" or other lists of "great" music), and I liked or loved them. When I "hit the wall" with much modern music, I was dumbstruck. How did this happen when almost all the classical music that I had tried in the past was, in general, wonderful?



aleazk said:


> I don't know how to answer. But I can tell you that for most of the pieces that I love now, I have never imagined, in the first listen, that those pieces would be my favorites now.


Almost universally works that I enjoy the most were works I instantly fell in love with. From the moment I heard them, I was staggered by the immense beauty of the piece, and that beauty has not diminished.

From posts such as Webernite's, aleazk's, and others on this thread (and elsewhere on TC), I've come to believe that there are listening techniques that would greatly benefit my enjoyment of modern music and probably all music. PetrB and others have mentioned "repeated listening", and I agree that can help at least somewhat. However, since repeated listening has not really helped me significantly to like most works that I have struggled with, I have to believe that I am not listening in a "productive way". Maybe liking classical works was so easy with almost everything besides modern, I did not develop the kind of listening that would enable me to enjoy a work that immediately strikes me as unpleasant.

I have several books on how to listen to classical music, but while they have been helpful, they have not enabled me to "break through" with music that I dislike (so far). Probably the thing to do is try listening is "new" ways (assuming I can figure out how) and see if that helps.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

^^^^yes. The basic technique is repeated listening. Also, it's helpful to divide a work in different aspects and try to understand them individually and their relation. Take Ligeti for example. I have told you, @mmsbls, that if you can't enjoy the dissonance, try to listen the rhythms of his late piano pieces. A great deal is about rhythm in those pieces. Now, once you catch the rhythms, you will be able to understand why the pieces are so dissonant: in general, the technique that Ligeti is using in those pieces requires a lot of notes played very fast. So, if you use all the notes of the chromatic scale, your job will be more easy. In this way you can see some relation, and even the necessity of dissonance!!. As @violadude says, you must give the composer a chance: try to understand his idea (the composer's idea, not what @violadude says!! :lol.
edit: In fact, in his first piano etude, "Desordre", Ligeti deliberately gives to the left hand only black keys and white keys to the right hand. The result of course sounds very dissonant. But Ligeti does this because in that way his rhythmic ideas are more clear in the score and they are more easy to play (they are a lot of octaves in both hands played in the same register, at that speed, they are only playable if one hand is in the black keys and the other in the white keys). So you can see in this example that Ligeti is not very interested in the harmony of his piece (he's more focused in realize his rhythmic idea, and that is already very hard!), why should you? 
Watch carefully the video and you will see what I say:


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> ^^^^yes. The basic technique is repeated listening. Also, it's helpful to divide a work in different aspects and try to understand them individually and their relation. Take Ligeti for example. I have told you, @mmsbls, that if you can't enjoy the dissonance, try to listen the rhythms of his late piano pieces. A great deal is about rhythm in those pieces. Now, once you catch the rhythms, you will be able to understand why the pieces are so dissonant: in general, the technique that Ligeti is using in those pieces requires a lot of notes played very fast. So, if you use all the notes of the chromatic scale, your job will be more easy. In this way you can see some relation, and even the necessity of dissonance!!. As @violadude says, you must give the composer a chance: try to understand his idea (the composer's idea, not what @violadude says!! :lol


You're technique is super helpful as well. I have listened to a piece multiple times paying attention to different aspects of it each time. Also if you can, it helps to try and hear every single part thats going on at any moment so practicing that is good!


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

violadude said:


> You're technique is super helpful as well. I have listened to a piece multiple times paying attention to different aspects of it each time. Also if you can, it helps to try and hear every single part thats going on at any moment so practicing that is good!


yes, I think this can be helpful for @mmsbls. He seems very focused in the harmonic part and in not liking dissonance. It would be helpful for him if he starts to pay attention to other aspects as well, e.g., rhythms, tone colour (as I already recommended for a section of Atmospheres), etc.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

aleazk said:


> yes, I think this can be helpful for @mmsbls. He seems very focused in the harmonic part and in not liking dissonance. It would be helpful for him if he starts to pay attention to other aspects as well, e.g., rhythms, tone colour (as I already recommended for a section of Atmospheres), etc.


It's true that I respond most positively to the harmonic and melodic parts of works. I guess the real question is whether I can learn to enjoy other parts to anywhere near the extent I enjoy harmonies and melodies. I do not know to what extent that enjoyment is learned or whether some people will never respond to other elements in a similar way. I wouldn't say that I'm focused on not liking dissonance (you may not have meant that), but that some dissonance is unpleasant and that affects my enjoyment.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

By psychology standards, repeated exposure to something you like a lot in the first place should make you grow fonder of it. I've had nothing but this experience myself.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> It's true that I respond most positively to the harmonic and melodic parts of works. I guess the real question is whether I can learn to enjoy other parts to anywhere near the extent I enjoy harmonies and melodies. I do not know to what extent that enjoyment is learned or whether some people will never respond to other elements in a similar way. I wouldn't say that I'm focused on not liking dissonance (you may not have meant that), but that some dissonance is unpleasant and that affects my enjoyment.


Well, I didn't know that about you. But, yes, if you want to get a full understanding of music, you must enjoy those other aspects as well, even if they are paired with dissonance. Simply because they form a whole together: music. Maybe Ravel is a good starting point for tone colour. Try to get the orchestral version of his piano works, and compare them with the original version for piano.
edit: when I have said that you are focused "on not liking dissonance", I meant the following. You have said many times that you want to understand modern music, but at the same time you always make the remark about "not liking dissonance". You sound contradictory. If you really want to understand modern music, then it is of vital importance that you can analyze those other aspects of music (like Einstein says: if you want different results, don't do always the same thing!). It is for that reason that I have done that remark about Ligeti's piano etude, I'm trying to help you in your goal, but you must do your part and forget about dissonance, since it's only a little part of the tale!, I mean, if you don't like it, there are plenty of other aspects to like!. Who knows, maybe if you can enjoy those other aspects you can reach your peace with dissonance .


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> By psychology standards, repeated exposure to something you like a lot in the first place should make you grow fonder of it. I've had nothing but this experience myself.


I haven't always found this to be true...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

violadude said:


> I haven't always found this to be true...


Well it isn't supposed to be 100 percent, but a general inclination of the public response to things. Care to elaborate on things you fell out of love with?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

By psychology standards, repeated exposure to something you like a lot in the first place should make you grow fonder of it. I've had nothing but this experience myself.

So by employing the Pavlovian method we can come to convince our-self that we actually like something that we really dislike? Of course is this not how pop music works? We hear the work repeatedly over the radio and on TV until there is a recognition factor... we recognize the tune and perhaps can't get it out of our head. Is this really how we should come to loving a work of music?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Well it isn't supposed to be 100 percent, but a general inclination of the public response to things. *Care to elaborate on things you fell out of love with?*


Just ask one of my Ex's lol.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> By psychology standards, repeated exposure to something you like a lot in the first place should make you grow fonder of it. I've had nothing but this experience myself.
> 
> So by employing the Pavlovian method we can come to convince our-self that we actually like something that we really dislike? Of course is this not how pop music works? We hear the work repeatedly over the radio and on TV until there is a recognition factor... we recognize the tune and perhaps can't get it out of our head. Is this really how we should come to loving a work of music?


No, no. On the flip side, (in general) if someone initially dislikes something genuinely, the more they are exposed to it, the greater they will come to detest it. At least this is what they suggest, especially for things like interpersonal relationships.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I also have to agree with aleazk and violadude in the idea of needing to listen to certain parts in order for the whole to make sense. You have to adjust the way you usually listen because that isn't necessarily the foundation of the composition you are currently listening to. I think this is a big problem for most music listeners when crossing into other genres, etc.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

violadude said:


> I've found that with myself the ability to "develop a subconscious map of the work so that I can enjoy it properly", as you put it, is like a muscle and it gets stronger and, in this particular case, faster over time. Has it been so with you?


Also, I find this to be very true. It is just like learning to do anything. The skill develops overtime to the point where it no longer feels taxing in any way. It starts to come naturally after awhile.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

Well, I hated Shostakovich's String Quartets at first, really, I found them to be vulgar and ugly, but after repeated exposure I started noticing things that I liked, not because I made myself to like them, but because all the "noise" that I was hearing before wasn't as dominant, so other things that were more to my liking became more noticeable. Eventually I ended up liking the vulgarity. 
I had the same thing with Bartok's 1st SQ lately. I listened to it a few times before and I always found it to be boring and ugly, but the last time I heard it actually sounded much better than I thought it would. 
So I guess I'd go with the repeated exposure as well, because otherwise I might miss music that I might actually like.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Chrythes said:


> Well, I hated Shostakovich's String Quartets at first, really, I found them to be vulgar and ugly, but after repeated exposure I started noticing things that I liked, not because I made myself to like them, but because all the "noise" that I was hearing before wasn't as dominant, so other things that were more to my liking became more noticeable. Eventually I ended up liking the vulgarity.
> I had the same thing with Bartok's 1st SQ lately. I listened to it a few times before and I always found it to be boring and ugly, but the last time I heard it actually sounded much better than I thought it would.
> So I guess I'd go with the repeated exposure as well, because otherwise I might miss music that I might actually like.


awwwww, yeahhhhhhh :lol:


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

moody said:


> What a dreadful idea.


Your loss then.
Listening in bed doesn't work if one's too tired obviously.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

DeepR said:


> Your loss then.
> Listening in bed doesn't work if one's too tired obviously.


No, you apparently have completely missed the point. the dreadful idea is this robotic idea of yours, isn't this what they do in lunatic asylumsa---strap you down and force feed you with noise (I mean in the old days naturally).


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

mmsbls said:


> I'm interested in people's experiences in coming to like works that they previously had disliked. I think there are several ways this can happen including:
> 
> 1) Reading/learning about a particular work to understand more about the composer's intent or more about details of the piece.
> 2) Repeated listening.
> ...


You covered all my bases there, basically.

The "other" I would add is attending live performance of the work. Esp. work with strong visual/theatrical element (not necessarily opera). Some long song-cycles are being staged this way here in recent years. I have been able to better appreciate these works by seeing the dramatic element - eg. lighting, choreography, miming, dancing, visual projections, etc. It's more interesting to me than just a recording, and tells the story of the songs. But it doesn't have to be live, it can be on DVD, etc. It puts the work in context & can be great if done in a creative and imaginative way.


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