# your 5 favorite Beethoven string quartets



## science

How would you rank them? (You can say your 5 favorite, or your 5 top recommendations, or the 5 you consider the greatest, or all of these this or whatever.) You can count the Grosse Fuge separately or as part of the op. 130.


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## Taneyev

4,7,10,11 and 13.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

The *A-major Op. 18* with the superb set of variations.

*All three Razumovskys*.

The *late F-major*.


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## Ukko

The first 6 and the last 5. No further winnowing possible.


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## Olias

Although the middle quartets are hugely groundbreaking and the late ones some of the most sublime music written, I tend to listen to the Op 18 set more frequently.


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## Guest

The 3 Razumovsky quartets (Op. 59, Nos. 1-3), the 15th (Op. 132), and the Grosse Fuge (Op. 133).


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## starry

Favourite 4 

From the late ones op127, 130 (with original ending), 132

op18/3 - Mozartian elegance


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## Nix

In order of my favorites: 14, 16, 15, 7, 10 

The first 6 are nice enough, but a little too Mozartish/Haydn sounding. When I listen to Beethoven I want to hear Beethoven. The only one that I don't really like out of the bunch though is 8. Just not really my thing.


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## jurianbai

yap, the Op.18 is sound like new Haydn/Mozart thus set mostly in "happy" mode. They are really have memorable melody, all six of them.

My favorite :
No.9 in C, the way the first movement change from slow tempo to main theme is memorable
No.6 in Bb
No.2 in G
No.10 in Fm Seriouso
No.15 in Am


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## Jacob Singer

14, 7, 8, 11, Grosse Fuge


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## Webernite

jurianbai said:


> No.10 in Fm Seriouso


You mean No. 11, right?


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## jurianbai

yes, though the Harp is also very good, but I least favorite it. ;p


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## Webernite

Nix said:


> The first 6 are nice enough, but a little too Mozartish/Haydn sounding. When I listen to Beethoven I want to hear Beethoven.


You're missing out, especially if you do like Mozart's and Haydn's quartets. "Early" Beethoven is still Beethoven. He was easily one of the greatest composers in Europe well before writing the _Eroica_ Symphony...

Edit: In fact, in some ways, I feel his sense of motivic development to be stronger in the Op. 18 than in the _Razumovskys_, although that's just me.


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## Sid James

I haven't heard all or even most of them, so I can't judge. But I can't believe no one has mentioned the 14th Op. 131. It's got to have one of the most amazing openings of any work ever. What a journey...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Too hard. Many fine pieces of various moods and emotions.


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## starry

Andre said:


> I haven't heard all or even most of them, so I can't judge. But I can't believe no one has mentioned the 14th Op. 131. It's got to have one of the most amazing openings of any work ever. What a journey...


A couple did mention it. And while it is obviously a very good work I do prefer the central slow movements of 12 and 15 to the centerpiece in that quartet.


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## Sid James

starry said:


> A couple did mention it. And while it is obviously a very good work I do prefer the central slow movements of 12 and 15 to the centerpiece in that quartet.


Yes, I realise now a few did mention the 14th. I understand what you mean, nothing in the rest of the quartet can equal the sublime opening fugue. But I guess Beethoven was playing around with structure, in this quartet he opened with a fugue while in the original version of the Op. 130 he ended with one (& a massive one at that)...


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## Jacob Singer

Andre said:


> Yes, I realise now a few did mention the 14th. I understand what you mean, nothing in the rest of the quartet can equal the sublime opening fugue.


Wow, really? While I certainly really like the entire quartet, I find movements VI and VII to be possibly the most beautiful music I've ever heard.


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## starry

It's an excellent quartet it's just that more recently I haven't liked the central slow movement as much as some of his other slow movements. So taken as a whole I probably like some others by him more. I know it is one of his most ambitious, but ambition isn't everything to me. Even then I think op130 with the original ending is probably more ambitious in some ways.


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## Nix

Webernite said:


> You're missing out, especially if you do like Mozart's and Haydn's quartets. "Early" Beethoven is still Beethoven. He was easily one of the greatest composers in Europe well before writing the _Eroica_ Symphony...
> 
> Edit: In fact, in some ways, I feel his sense of motivic development to be stronger in the Op. 18 than in the _Razumovskys_, although that's just me.


Well I have acquainted myself with all of them and while I enjoy the first six I don't think it's Beethoven truly being Beethoven yet. And it makes sense if you look at the history surrounding them. The Op. 18 were premiered alongside a set of new quartets by Haydn, who was founder of the genre and considered a master in the form. Beethoven knew he was writing something in Haydn's turf and I think took a more cautious approach because of that, choosing to emulate rather then pioneer until he had truly discovered his own voice. This is also why I think the forms that Beethoven didn't consider Haydn or Mozart to be a master of, such as the piano and cello sonata, he became much more ambitious and individual in his writing. And I don't think I'm alone in my opinion, for Beethoven himself said that everything he had written before Eroica was useless (which I take to mean that he hadn't completely found his voice until the 3rd symphony- even if hints of it could be detected in earlier pieces).


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## starry

Nix said:


> And I don't think I'm alone in my opinion, for Beethoven himself said that everything he had written before Eroica was useless (which I take to mean that he hadn't completely found his voice until the 3rd symphony- even if hints of it could be detected in earlier pieces).


Composers when they enter into what they see as a new style or development in their work often dismiss earlier pieces of theirs, that doesn't mean the audience have to agree with them though.


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## Olias

Nix said:


> Well I have acquainted myself with all of them and while I enjoy the first six I don't think it's Beethoven truly being Beethoven yet. And it makes sense if you look at the history surrounding them. The Op. 18 were premiered alongside a set of new quartets by Haydn, who was founder of the genre and considered a master in the form. Beethoven knew he was writing something in Haydn's turf and I think took a more cautious approach because of that, choosing to emulate rather then pioneer until he had truly discovered his own voice. This is also why I think the forms that Beethoven didn't consider Haydn or Mozart to be a master of, such as the piano and cello sonata, he became much more ambitious and individual in his writing. And I don't think I'm alone in my opinion, for Beethoven himself said that everything he had written before Eroica was useless (which I take to mean that he hadn't completely found his voice until the 3rd symphony- even if hints of it could be detected in earlier pieces).


Those points are well made, and while I don't disagree with the comments, I would contend that Beethoven's early period (pre-Eroica) was more than an emulation of the Viennese Classical style. True, more radical innovations would come after 1803, but the Op 18 Quartets had many innovations of their own. The "Sturm und Drang" elements, the extreme rhythmic ambiguity, the manipulation of formal structure, the sudden harmonic changes, etc.

Yes, Beethoven was well aware that his Quartets were going to be compared to those of Haydn and Mozart, but they are by no means conservative works for the time in which they were written.

There is a MARVELOUS series of very detailed lectures by Dr Robert Greenberg on all 16 Quartets by Beethoven. It is well worth the purchase (wait until it goes on sale though, its about $40 during sale times).

http://www.teach12.com:80/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=7240


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## Webernite

Nix said:


> Well I have acquainted myself with all of them and while I enjoy the first six I don't think it's Beethoven truly being Beethoven yet. And it makes sense if you look at the history surrounding them. The Op. 18 were premiered alongside a set of new quartets by Haydn, who was founder of the genre and considered a master in the form. Beethoven knew he was writing something in Haydn's turf and I think took a more cautious approach because of that, choosing to emulate rather then pioneer until he had truly discovered his own voice. This is also why I think the forms that Beethoven didn't consider Haydn or Mozart to be a master of, such as the piano and cello sonata, he became much more ambitious and individual in his writing. And I don't think I'm alone in my opinion, for Beethoven himself said that everything he had written before Eroica was useless (which I take to mean that he hadn't completely found his voice until the 3rd symphony- even if hints of it could be detected in earlier pieces).


I just can't agree that it took him till he was 35 to "find his voice" and begin producing great works. Mozart was that age when he _died_. The Piano Concerto No. 3, the _Pathetique_, _Moonlight_ and _Tempest_ piano sonatas, the _Kreutzer_ violin sonata, two of those cello sonatas you mentioned, and of course the _Eroica_ Variations - all these were composed before the _Eroica_ Symphony.

My view is that his greatest characteristic - that extraordinary intuition for creating a piece of music organically out of small ideas - was present in Beethoven almost from the very beginning, and it's what makes the Op. 18 quartets different from those of Haydn and Mozart, if not always greater.


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## Nix

Webernite said:


> I just can't agree that it took him till he was 35 to "find his voice" and begin producing great works. Mozart was that age when he _died_. The Piano Concerto No. 3, the _Pathetique_, _Moonlight_ and _Tempest_ piano sonatas, the _Kreutzer_ violin sonata, two of those cello sonatas you mentioned, and of course the _Eroica_ Variations - all these were composed before the _Eroica_ Symphony.


I said 'completely find his voice.' I also said that he was more ambitious and individual in forms that he didn't consider Haydn and Mozart to have dominated- such as solo piano work, and the cello sonata- which make up most of the examples you gave. The piano concerto, while unmistakably Beethoven is still after all modeled after Mozart's K491. And every composer takes a certain amount of time before they attain a truly individual way of writing.

I should also reiterate that I enjoy most of Beethoven's work before the Eroica, and only gave that as a concrete example of his turning point in individuality because himself Beethoven did. I don't think Beethoven suddenly woke up one day and knew how he was going to change his writing style. I think it happened over time, and pieces like the 3rd piano concerto are transitionary pieces. But if we're to lump things one way or the other, I think it's safe to say that from Eroica and on Beethoven sounded much more like himself and much less like others. And the earlier you get the less this becomes the case, as is apparent with the Op. 18 quartets.


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## Webernite

(I edited my last post a bit, by the way.) 

But, yes, I suppose I wasn't arguing with you so much as with that Beethoven quote you gave, a remark which I felt to be wrong and even silly. 

I don't disagree with anything you have said, as such. What bothers me is that you seem to believe that any work written before he "found his voice" must really in the end be less good than what he wrote afterwards, and less worth listening to. I don't share that belief at all.


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## starry

People change over time though, so in that sense their voice may naturally change over time, their influences will change as well. We associate Beethoven so much with the 'heroic' voice because that is what some of his most famous pieces over time were composed in. But simplifying a composer to just one voice may not be helpful?


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## Nix

Webernite said:


> (I edited my last post a bit, by the way.)
> 
> But, yes, I suppose I wasn't arguing with you so much as with that Beethoven quote you gave, a remark which I felt to be wrong and even silly.
> 
> I don't disagree with anything you have said, as such. What bothers me is that you seem to believe that any work written before he "found his voice" must really in the end be less good than what he wrote afterwards, and less worth listening to. I don't share that belief at all.


I edited mine as well (not sure if you posted in time to see it or not), but between the two edits I don't think there's much more to say


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## jurianbai

again I'm going to post a youtube video about lecture on Beethoven's Quartet no.15 in Am, the slow movement , can be found on this blog:

http://silentstring.blogspot.com/2010/03/unstring-beethovens-heiliger-dankgesang.html


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## science

Olias said:


> http://www.teach12.com:80/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=7240


Thank you for that link. I will look forward to it. For now, browsing the site, I notice that the course on Beethoven's sonatas is on sale.


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## Efraim

Opp. 132, 131, 133, 127 and 59/1.


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## Olias

science said:


> Thank you for that link. I will look forward to it. For now, browsing the site, I notice that the course on Beethoven's sonatas is on sale.


All of Greenberg's lectures are fantastic. The one on the piano sonatas covers all 32 (some in more detail than others but he touches on all of them). He explains their historical significance, influence, public reception, and structure.

He's also one of the most entertaining speakers I've heard, mixing excitement and humor with great stories and well-researched facts. I've purchased about 20 courses from the Teaching Company and they've all been wonderful.


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## starry

jurianbai said:


> again I'm going to post a youtube video about lecture on Beethoven's Quartet no.15 in Am, the slow movement , can be found on this blog:
> 
> http://silentstring.blogspot.com/2010/03/unstring-beethovens-heiliger-dankgesang.html


Yeh it is quite a good lecture. I posted a youtube link to that on another thread quite a while ago.

My thoughts on it were...

To say ONLY Beethoven could ever have done something....an exaggeration? Also﻿ perhaps if someone is too ill maybe they can't compose, perhaps art can be more done in health remembering illness. Interesting saying that illness slows things down for someone (though this is conjecture with this piece).


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Andre said:


> _I can't believe no one has mentioned the 14th Op. 131._


The c#-minor Quartet can be one of the most difficult to grasp.

Recommend the Leipziger SQ's 1994 reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Str...00007TS1/ref=cm_cr-mr-img/175-3763385-2822503


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## Op47

No 4 Cm
No 7 F
No 9 C
Op 130 Bb w Grosse Fugue
Op 131 C#m


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## Lusvig

14
12
15
13
10

feels v wrong to leave out nos. 11, 16, 7 and pretty much all the other ones as well but yeah âœŠí ½í¸”


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## Lusvig

14
12
15
13
10

feels v wrong to leave out nos. 11, 16, 7 and pretty much all the other ones as well but yeah ✊


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## Merl

I couldn't even begin to rank them as I go through phases of playing the early, middle and late quartets. I can never settle on certain SQs. 
At the moment I'm playing the middles a lot and thoroughly enjoying #10.


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## starthrower

I can't remember five of them but I like No.1 and the Grosse Fugue.


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## Allegro Con Brio

5. No. 8 
4. No. 15
3. No. 12
2. No. 14
1. No. 13, including Grosse Fuge

I have spent a considerable amount of time with the late quartets and don't feel as if I've done the Razumovskys and the early ones justice. I can feel a Beethoven mood coming on, but it's not quite here yet!


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## flamencosketches

7 (op.59 no.1)
16 (op.135)
13 (op.130)
11 (op.95)
14 (op.135)

Haven't listened to much, if any, Beethoven in the new year. Need to revisit the quartets, especially the early-mid quartets.


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## gregorx

I'm with those who say the last four are the best; and some of the greatest quartets ever written. And Op. 59 No. 1 makes five.


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## Xisten267

My personal top five at the moment:

1. #15, Op. 132;
2. #14, Op. 131;
3. #13, Op. 130 (with the _Grosse Fuge_);
4. #12, Op. 127;
5. Tie between #7, Op. 59 no. 1 and #16, Op. 135.


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## hammeredklavier




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## Dimace

Has Beethoven composed string quartets? :lol:

I love them ALL!


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## Enthusiast

Merl said:


> I couldn't even begin to rank them as I go through phases of playing the early, middle and late quartets. I can never settle on certain SQs.
> At the moment I'm playing the middles a lot and thoroughly enjoying #10.


The three very different phases of Beethoven's creativity seem to be very distinct with the quartets (it is almost as if there are three different composers) and do indeed make it very difficult to choose favourites from among them.


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## fluteman

Dimace said:


> Has Beethoven composed string quartets? :lol:
> 
> I love them ALL!


Bingo. Every single one is extraordinary.


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## Merl

Dimace said:


> Has Beethoven composed string quartets? :lol:


Nah, you're getting confused with Mahler.


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## juliante

First to fifth - 15, 7, 9, 10, 13 

Based on frequency of listening.


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## Bigbang

Olias said:


> All of Greenberg's lectures are fantastic. The one on the piano sonatas covers all 32 (some in more detail than others but he touches on all of them). He explains their historical significance, influence, public reception, and structure.
> 
> He's also one of the most entertaining speakers I've heard, mixing excitement and humor with great stories and well-researched facts. I've purchased about 20 courses from the Teaching Company and they've all been wonderful.


Well, times change. I have purchased second hand a few of the Great Courses. Now I find that I can watch many through the library online using Kanopy. Worthwhile checking out to see if access is available in the area of the viewer.


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## Quartetfore

fluteman said:


> Bingo. Every single one is extraordinary.


Other than Op.132 which seems to put me to put me to sleep, I like them all too. I have several recordings of each work, and I can`t say which are the best. It seems to me that when it comes to the recording and playing any of the quartets,it brings out the best work in the group. Several years ago I went to a concert (Juliard String Quartet) That hand planned to play two of the last quartets. They were so tired after the first work, that they played an Op.18 work. I guess its hard work., Just a note about the the about the the Juliard Quartet. All the founders are gone and the members of the group teach at the school. My eldest daughter who played the viola in a string quartet for a number of years heard them play at the college that she teaches at, and she told me that they where outstanding.


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## Paulby

Working my way through them at the moment enjoying them all but too early to decide


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## Xisten267

Quartetfore said:


> *Other than Op.132 which seems to put me to put me to sleep*, I like them all too. I have several recordings of each work, and I can`t say which are the best. It seems to me that when it comes to the recording and playing any of the quartets,it brings out the best work in the group. Several years ago I went to a concert (Juliard String Quartet) That hand planned to play two of the last quartets. They were so tired after the first work, that they played an Op.18 work. I guess its hard work., Just a note about the the about the the Juliard Quartet. All the founders are gone and the members of the group teach at the school. My eldest daughter who played the viola in a string quartet for a number of years heard them play at the college that she teaches at, and she told me that they where outstanding.


Interesting how tastes may differ. Beethoven's Op. 132 is my current favorite chamber piece of all times and places. My favorite version is with the _Prazak Quartet_, and I recommend it.


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## hammeredklavier

Quartetfore said:


> Other than Op.132 which seems to put me to put me to sleep, I like them all too.


I do enjoy Op.132, but I like Op.127, Op.131 better.

Coincidentally, Tchaikovsky felt about Op.132 in the same way as you:
[..._Beethoven's late string quartets, one of which (the A minor quartet, Op. 132) made him feel quite "drowsy"._ ]


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## JAB142

1st Op 131, 2nd Op 132, 3rd Op135
Least favourite, though still liked :- 16th Op59 no.3 15th Op127 14th Op 95 (Serioso)


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## StDior

1	String Quartet #15 op.132
2	String Quartet #13 op.130
3	String Quartet #14 op.131
4	String Quartet #8 op. 59/2 (Razumovsky)
5	String Quartet #10 op.74 (Harp)

I cannot stop, so next	String Quartet #16 op.135, then String Quartet #11 op.95 (Serioso), then String Quartet #9 op.59/3 (Razumovsky)


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