# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Semifinal 1): Callas vs Ponselle



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Maria Callas, Greece/USA, 1923-1977 (defeated Sutherland 25-4)






Rosa Ponselle, USA, 1897-1981 (defeated Boninsegna 10-9)






Who's singing did you prefer and why?

*do you think there's any advantage to singers going first or second in these matchups, a home-court advantage kind of thing?


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Both of these are fantastic recordings and its almost unfair to declare a loser here. In the end, what separated it for me is that although Ponselle has what I believe to be a better voice for this music, she sings it strictly as a lament, whereas Callas added more emotional nuance to the aria that, to my mind, made it more engaging and impactful.

As to the question in the OP; I don't think so. If it is close I usually end up listening to both multiple times and if it's not close then I don't think it could possibly have a large enough effect to change my decision. However, if forced to vote who has an advantage, I might be tempted to vote the singer going first as the first recording might leave an imprint on how the aria "should" go especially for listeners who have not heard the aria sung before.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

BachIsBest said:


> Both of these are fantastic recordings and its almost unfair to declare a loser here. In the end, what separated it for me is that although Ponselle has what I believe to be a better voice for this music, she sings it strictly as a lament, whereas Callas added more emotional nuance to the aria that, to my mind, made it more engaging and impactful.


The Ponselle version is a famous recording and one of her very best that displays her gifts to great advantage. Among her commercial recordings, much of which she disliked, this is one of the few that she personally found satisfying (if I remember correctly what I read somewhere). Making a choice between this and the Callas version is very difficult indeed and it's unfair, as you point out, to declare a winner and a loser here. In the end I opted for Callas' for virtually the same reason as you. Ponselle's is very beautiful and gives a great deal of pleasure but Callas' is musically and emotionally more interesting. I have a feeling competition is going to be very tight here.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

A very difficult choice. Both sings it very well. Miss Ponselle has a vastly superior instrument. Very beautiful, very even, very rich, very easy on the ear. She sings it well, in a very measured manner, very pleasing. 

Why then, do I prefer Miss Callas's version? It's possibly because I am more attuned to her voice, or because she has more colors to her voice. I don't know. Terry McEwen once said that of Callas, that she played "fabulous concerti on a broken violin." Cruel and hurtful to me, but it has a grain of truth.

I pick the fabulous concerto, but I must reserve the right to play Ponselle every fourth or fifth night, if it's still on YouTube.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I find Ponselle's superior voice overcomes any advantage Callas might have concerning nuance/color.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Again I may be asked to leave the forum for daring to say anyone could beat an interpretation of Callas's. And yet I must. To be honest this is like the best of the best of the Olympics of Youtube opera in this particular Forum contest. Both ladies sing perfectly. I can't think of any other singers who could sing on the level of these ladies in this particular aria !!!! Callas is in fabulous voice here. But in my opinion no one could defeat Ponselle on this. It is possibly the greatest recording of her voice and the vocal shading is absolutely unbelievable and the climactic note towards the end could possibly be the most perfect combination of astonishing vocal size and staggering beauty ever recorded. The dark richness of her voice is so perfect for this sad aria and the final piano note is haunting. Even Maria admitted that "Ponselle was the greatest of us all." Casta Diva is another one where Callas might be neck and neck in a contest with Ponselle if you use her 1929 version and Callas's first studio Norma.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This really is Sophie's Choice. Probably the two best versions of this aria to have ever been recorded (not that it's recorded that often, of course). Both ladies sing with superb legato and beautiful phrasing. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice and she is also steadier. Callas is in good voice on this recording, but just occasionally there is a hint of unsteadiness where Ponselle is rock steady. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice, but there is something so deeply affecting in the mere sound of Callas's voice, which has its own sort of beauty. 

Nobody should have to choose between these two great singers, and Callas herself would probably vote for Ponselle. However I'm going to give it to Callas, because Callas is the singer who has enriched my life more than any other since I first discovered her when I was about sixteen.


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## Saxman (Jun 11, 2019)

Ponselle is simply perfect . I thought she should have lost in earlier rounds, but boy does she bring the goods here.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Granted I expect to be completely out there in left field alone with my choice in this Callas (whom I also happen to adore) centered forum but the expressive way Ponselle made this plaintive beautiful aria into a prayer overtook any other thought but to give her the crown of roses for her superb rendition.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> Both of these are fantastic recordings and its almost unfair to declare a loser here. In the end, what separated it for me is that although Ponselle has what I believe to be a better voice for this music, she sings it strictly as a lament, whereas Callas added more emotional nuance to the aria that, to my mind, made it more engaging and impactful.
> 
> As to the question in the OP; I don't think so. If it is close I usually end up listening to both multiple times and if it's not close then I don't think it could possibly have a large enough effect to change my decision. However, if forced to vote who has an advantage,* I might be tempted to vote the singer going first as the first recording might leave an imprint on how the aria "should" go especially for listeners who have not heard the aria sung before*.


Nay, not so. I wasn't familiar with the aria and of course was completely ready to give it to Callas, saying to myself, "this is perfection. What could be better than that?" And then, along came Rosa. Case closed.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

An aside:
Bonetan, I simply must thank you for introducing me to an opera I had heard of but knew nothing about, nor did I know of Mercadante, the composer.
I am now waiting patiently for the Met to decide to resurrect this opera if for no other reason than so I can hear this glorious aria once again (albeit likely never as well done again as by these two)


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

nina foresti said:


> An aside:
> Bonetan, I simply must thank you for introducing me to an opera I had heard of but knew nothing about, nor did I know of Mercadante, the composer.
> I am now waiting patiently for the Met to decide to resurrect this opera if for no other reason than so I can hear this glorious aria once again (albeit likely never as well done again as by these two)


The composer is Gaspare Spontini. Mercadante wrote a different opera of the same name.

Two outstanding renditions. Another of my favorite of Callas' recordings. I ultimately prefer Ponselle because of her exceptional line and her perfect technique. I also like her low note better. She leans into it more than Callas does, which brings some nice drama into a very dignified aria.

Also, isn't this aria just wonderful?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

vivalagentenuova said:


> The composer is Gaspare Spontini. Mercadante wrote a different opera of the same name.
> 
> Two outstanding renditions. Another of my favorite of Callas' recordings. I ultimately prefer Ponselle because of her exceptional line and her perfect technique. I also like her low note better. She leans into it more than Callas does, which brings some nice drama into a very dignified aria.
> 
> Also, isn't this aria just wonderful?


Viva, it is a wonderful aria! I think the opera fell out of fashion for some reason.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Oh Spontini!! Thank you both for this. And yes, that great low note had me sit up and take notice as well. But her diminutive ending hit me really hard. It was just gorgeous.
Bonetan: Two perfect renderings by two giants of the opera world. 
To my ears, this is the best comparison study that you have put up so far.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Again I may be asked to leave the forum for daring to say anyone could beat an interpretation of Callas's. And yet I must. *To be honest this is like the best of the best of the Olympics of Youtube opera in this particular Forum contest.* Both ladies sing perfectly. I can't think of any other singers who could sing on the level of these ladies in this particular aria !!!! Callas is in fabulous voice here. But in my opinion no one could defeat Ponselle on this. It is possibly the greatest recording of her voice and the vocal shading is absolutely unbelievable and the climactic note towards the end could possibly be the most perfect combination of astonishing vocal size and staggering beauty ever recorded. The dark richness of her voice is so perfect for this sad aria and the final piano note is haunting. Even Maria admitted that "Ponselle was the greatest of us all." Casta Diva is another one where Callas might be neck and neck in a contest with Ponselle if you use her 1929 version and Callas's first studio Norma.


Heck, it's like the gold medal game of the Olympics of Youtube opera in this particular Forum contest! I, for one, am really intrigued to see which singer gets more votes in the end.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

nina foresti said:


> An aside:
> Bonetan, I simply must thank you for introducing me to an opera I had heard of but knew nothing about, nor did I know of Mercadante, the composer.
> I am now waiting patiently for the Met to decide to resurrect this opera if for no other reason than so I can hear this glorious aria once again (albeit likely never as well done again as by these two)


All credit to Viva!


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Oh boy, both renditions are so exquisite! I am really unable to cast my vote because I want both ladies to share the crown this round. Callas is dramatic but in a slightly less stable voice, Ponselle sounds more detached and dreamy. And this is a semifinal only? It's an opera's gold standard material. Oh boy, oh boy.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I agree with everyone else.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I agree with everyone else.


Short and sweet


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Short and sweet


Also something I may never have said before, and may never say again.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> *do you think there's any advantage to singers going first or second in these matchups, a home-court advantage kind of thing?


I haven't voted yet (this really IS a difficult one), but to answer your question I'm not sure about the order in which they are posted, I don't think so, but it is difficult when one of the recordings is one that I am familiar with as pre-conceived ideas about the recordings can't be avoided. I know both these recordings very well, so I will try and listen with fresh ears.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This really is Sophie's Choice. Probably the two best versions of this aria to have ever been recorded (not that it's recorded that often, of course). Both ladies sing with superb legato and beautiful phrasing. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice and she is also steadier. Callas is in good voice on this recording, but just occasionally there is a hint of unsteadiness where Ponselle is rock steady. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice, but there is something so deeply affecting in the mere sound of Callas's voice, which has its own sort of beauty.
> 
> Nobody should have to choose between these two great singers, and Callas herself would probably vote for Ponselle. However I'm going to give it to Callas, because Callas is the singer who has enriched my life more than any other since I first discovered her when I was about sixteen.


I agree with this. My vote went to Callas in the end as there is a tinge of melancholy in her tone that makes her version a touch more heart felt.

N.


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

I went with Ponselle.

Callas’ voice has quite a unique timbre that immediately sets her apart from most of her peers. For me, on initial hearing, her voice is like sweet ear candy... but like all candy, too much gets you feeling less than great. So it is with M. Callas for me. Ponselle might not be victor right out of the gate, but given repeated listens she is victorious. 



As an aside, I truly wish Callas sang Fiordiligi. She might’ve been perfect for that character.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Music Snob said:


> I went with Ponselle.
> 
> Callas' voice has quite a unique timbre that immediately sets her apart from most of her peers. For me, on initial hearing, her voice is like sweet ear candy... but like all candy, too much gets you feeling less than great. So it is with M. Callas for me. Ponselle might not be victor right out of the gate, but given repeated listens she is victorious.
> 
> As an aside, I truly wish Callas sang Fiordiligi. She might've been perfect for that character.


I don't normally think of Callas as having the ideal Mozartian voice with her distinct registers, but Come scolio would rock as they say under her artistry. I love what you said in the first paragraph.


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## niknik (Oct 4, 2014)

I think is quite unfair setting the tournament between Maria Callas and Rosa Ponsele with an humble air without a significant vocal range and not from Maria's most important and long singing roles


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> Maria Callas, Greece/USA, 1923-1977 (defeated Sutherland 25-4)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Bonetan,

Thanks for sharing - Ponselle, for me.

Both versions are excellent.

In Callas' version the line is perfect: it is mesmerising how she makes all those phrases join together. It is not just an artistic feat - it is practically an 'athletic' feat in terms of breathing.

I could barely hope for more, but Ponselle - I think - manages it. The luxury of Ponselle's voice is everywhere apparent: each word, even each vowel is absolute poetry.

Thanks again!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I fully expected Ponselle to win this round, as this is possibly _the_ classic Ponselle recording, but it also saddens me a little because it means Maria will not appear in any final round. Even so the race was quite close.

Had the comparison been something like _Sempre libera_, then things might have been different. But of course Callas's strength was never in individual arias. It was in her handling of the whole role, which she interpreted in one single arc, a phrase of recitative holding as much significance as a famous aria. Sadly we only have complete recordings of Ponselle in *Don Giovanni* (in very poor sound), *La Traviata* and *Carmen*. The Traviata is a justly renowned recording, but I suspect if Ponselle were pitted against Callas even as late as 1958 in London, Callas would win that round. The same would probably be true of Carmen.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I fully expected Ponselle to win this round, as this is possibly _the_ classic Ponselle recording, but it also saddens me a little because it means Maria will not appear in any final round. Even so the race was quite close.
> 
> Had the comparison been something like _Sempre libera_, then things might have been different. But of course Callas's strength was never in individual arias. It was in her handling of the whole role, which she interpreted in one single arc, a phrase of recitative holding as much significance as a famous aria. Sadly we only have complete recordings of Ponselle in *Don Giovanni* (in very poor sound), *La Traviata* and *Carmen*. The Traviata is a justly renowned recording, but I suspect if Ponselle were pitted against Callas even as late as 1958 in London, Callas would win that round. The same would probably be true of Carmen.


I agree with you about Carmen. However, had the contest been Sempre libera, then Ponselle would have been my choice as she is the only singers who doesn't need to 'cheat' in some way in that piece, but as you say Callas' achievements aren't best observed in single arias.

N.


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## Viardots (Oct 4, 2014)

The Conte said:


> However, had the contest been Sempre libera, then Ponselle would have been my choice as she is the only singers who doesn't need to 'cheat' in some way in that piece.


Sorry, afraid I can't get what you mean here. I thought Ponselle is the one who 'cheated' by transposing the key of the piece downward to make herself more comfortable with the exposed high notes.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I agree with you about Carmen. However, had the contest been Sempre libera, then Ponselle would have been my choice as she is the only singers who doesn't need to 'cheat' in some way in that piece, but as you say Callas' achievements aren't best observed in single arias.
> 
> N.


Unless you call transposing it down a cheat. How does Callas cheat by the way?

PS Just listened to Callas's 1955 La Scala performance of _Sempre libera_. I have no idea what you could possibly mean by cheating - and she sings it in the right key!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I fully expected Ponselle to win this round, as this is possibly _the_ classic Ponselle recording, but it also saddens me a little because it means Maria will not appear in any final round. Even so the race was quite close.
> 
> Had the comparison been something like _Sempre libera_, then things might have been different. But of course Callas's strength was never in individual arias. It was in her handling of the whole role, which she interpreted in one single arc, a phrase of recitative holding as much significance as a famous aria. Sadly we only have complete recordings of Ponselle in *Don Giovanni* (in very poor sound), *La Traviata* and *Carmen*. The Traviata is a justly renowned recording, but I suspect if Ponselle were pitted against Callas even as late as 1958 in London, Callas would win that round. The same would probably be true of Carmen.


Tsaraslondon, don't despair, as there will be another rather big contest with Callas coming up later, I am told. It is from a role considered as being one of her finest. DM me if you want details;-)


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Viardots said:


> Sorry, afraid I can't get what you mean here. I thought Ponselle is the one who 'cheated' by transposing the key of the piece downward to make herself more comfortable with the exposed high notes.


I'd forgotten that Ponselle transposed it. It's the downward phrase of slurred notes that only Ponselle sings full out and clear without sounding like Tarzan. Callas manages it by singing them quietly, 'cheating' or clever artistry? Ponselle cheated in a different way and so you are right.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I'd forgotten that Ponselle transposed it. It's the downward phrase of slurred notes that only Ponselle sings full out and clear without sounding like Tarzan. Callas manages it by singing them quietly, 'cheating' or clever artistry? Ponselle cheated in a different way and so you are right.
> 
> N.


What do you mean by the downward slurred notes? The downward scales or the ones separated into duple quavers? Both singers sing them very well, but actually Callas articulates the trills on _degg'*io*_ and _folleg*gia*re_ more clearly. Mind you at the break-neck speed Panizza takes it, it's surprising Ponselle is as accurate as she is! Of course by 1958 _Sempre libera_ is more of a hurdle for Callas, but, though strained in the upper reaches, she still manages it with consummate skill, and she is singing in the correct key. In all her recordings up to the 1955 La Scala performance, the singing is phenomenal.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> What do you mean by the downward slurred notes? The downward scales or the ones separated into duple quavers? Both singers sing them very well, but actually Callas articulates the trills on _degg'*io*_ and _folleg*gia*re_ more clearly. Mind you at the break-neck speed Panizza takes it, it's surprising Ponselle is as accurate as she is! Of course by 1958 _Sempre libera_ is more of a hurdle for Callas, but, though strained in the upper reaches, she still manages it with consummate skill, and she is singing in the correct key. In all her recordings up to the 1955 La Scala performance, the singing is phenomenal.


The ones separated into double quavers. For most sopranos these come out as war whoops! (It may be Verdi's writing that is at fault, yes, the phrase has a poetic beauty to it, but if sung as written it lies in a part of the voice that it's difficult to avoid the Tarzan effect.) Ponselle presumably doesn't have the problem because she sings it in a different key. Callas avoids it by finding an ingenious solution. All others that I can think of have a problem at that point (although I can't remember how De los Angeles handles it).

N.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This really is Sophie's Choice. Probably the two best versions of this aria to have ever been recorded (not that it's recorded that often, of course). Both ladies sing with superb legato and beautiful phrasing. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice and she is also steadier. Callas is in good voice on this recording, but just occasionally there is a hint of unsteadiness where Ponselle is rock steady. Ponselle has the more beautiful voice, but there is something so deeply affecting in the mere sound of Callas's voice, which has its own sort of beauty.
> 
> Nobody should have to choose between these two great singers, and Callas herself would probably vote for Ponselle. However I'm going to give it to Callas, because Callas is the singer who has enriched my life more than any other since I first discovered her when I was about sixteen.


With full, as always, respect and acceptance to the choices have been made by our fellow members and good friends, I found the poll results a complete absurdity not to say insanity, despite the fact that I AGREE with the quality criteria of our members and I trust their knowledges.

Two or three years before his death, the GIANT Arthur Rubinstein, gave a last master class in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem. He was blind and death. Logically speaking, the young students were playing better than him the Chopin pieces they have prepared for the class, despite they were there to listen his opinion. The master was trying mostly by speaking (he had also problems to speak clearly) and making noises, when he was trying to sing some passages, to explane to the students the correct way to play the piano. If you listen ANY of the students playing that day, ALL are better than the Master Arthur. (he tried many times to play also the piano, like the GREAT Paul Badura-Skoda in his last master class. The result wasn't good.) I believe you understand what I mean. Yes, maybe I have played once the Liszt sonata better than the XXXX great pianist, but this doesn't make me better than him in any case. *The moment is important, but the life time performance and highest levels stability is EVERYTHING. *

Congrats for this post, my dearest (I didn't read all of them. If someone has an opinion as yours, also congratulations, and, to repeat it, RESPECT for ALL the opinions has been written.)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> The ones separated into double quavers. For most sopranos these come out as war whoops! (It may be Verdi's writing that is at fault, yes, the phrase has a poetic beauty to it, but if sung as written it lies in a part of the voice that it's difficult to avoid the Tarzan effect.) Ponselle presumably doesn't have the problem because she sings it in a different key. Callas avoids it by finding an ingenious solution. All others that I can think of have a problem at that point (although I can't remember how De los Angeles handles it).
> 
> N.


I've always thought Callas's handling of those double quavers exemplary. You can clearly hear the difference between them and the straightforward downward scales. Most sopranos don't even make the distinction. Both De Los Angeles and Cotrubas do attempt the double quavers, but not as gracefully as Callas.

Incidentally I wouldn't blame Verdi's writing. Isn't it just like Callas that she would find a _musical_ solution to a technical problem?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've always thought Callas's handling of those double quavers exemplary. You can clearly hear the difference between them and the straightforward downward scales. Most sopranos don't even make the distinction. Both De Los Angeles and Cotrubas do attempt the double quavers, but not as gracefully as Callas.
> 
> Incidentally I wouldn't blame Verdi's writing. Isn't it just like Callas that she would find a _musical_ solution to a technical problem?


Callas owns the Sempre Libera if there were a contest between Callas and Ponselle as the Ponselle is rushed too much by the conductor and she can't do the optional Eb6. The rest of the role is more of a toss up as to who triumphed there. There it is hard to say... even in the slow intro to Sempre Libera. It is like choosing who was more stunning: Sophia Loren or Elizabeth Taylor.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Dimace said:


> With full, as always, respect and acceptance to the choices have been made by our fellow members and good friends, I found the poll results a complete absurdity not to say insanity, despite the fact that I AGREE with the quality criteria of our members and I trust their knowledges.
> 
> Two or three years before his death, the GIANT Arthur Rubinstein, gave a last master class in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem. He was blind and death. Logically speaking, the young students were playing better than him the Chopin pieces they have prepared for the class, despite they were there to listen his opinion. The master was trying mostly by speaking (he had also problems to speak clearly) and making noises, when he was trying to sing some passages, to explane to the students the correct way to play the piano. If you listen ANY of the students playing that day, ALL are better than the Master Arthur. (he tried many times to play also the piano, like the GREAT Paul Badura-Skoda in his last master class. The result wasn't good.) I believe you understand what I mean. Yes, maybe I have played once the Liszt sonata better than the XXXX great pianist, but this doesn't make me better than him in any case. *The moment is important, but the life time performance and highest levels stability is EVERYTHING. *
> 
> Congrats for this post, my dearest (I didn't read all of them. If someone has an opinion as yours, also congratulations, and, to repeat it, RESPECT for ALL the opinions has been written.)


Are you saying that Ponselle is like an amateur who had an occasional great day? Or that we can't use a single aria as a firm basis of comparison? Of course we can't, which is why we are just comparing the singing of these two renditions of an aria.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Tsaraslondon, don't despair, as there will be another rather big contest with Callas coming up later, I am told. It is from a role considered as being one of her finest. DM me if you want details;-)


I'm having 2nd thoughts lol. Callas overload on TC these days!


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Bonetan said:


> I'm having 2nd thoughts lol. Callas overload on TC these days!


Why? We never talk about Callas on TC. In fact, before this thread, I can't even remember the last time she was brought up.


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