# So you are having dinner with a great composer and have to tell him your quibbles



## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

1. Mozart- Why no solo cello sonatas
2. Mozart- Why does the cello merely take the role of accompaniment in your piano trios.
3. Beethoven- A String Quintet please
4. Schubert- A concerto please, and a good fugue every now and again in your great works.
5. Schumann- A 2nd piano concerto please. And try to improve the counterpoint in your orchestral works. Take some classes from Mendelssohn.
6. Brahms- You don't necessarily have to publish only your best compositions.True fans will enjoy the music you put in your trash.
7. Bruckner- A concerto please
8. Liszt- writing in the traditional forms in a traditional manner will not hurt.
9. Tchaikovsky- Carrying on a homosexual relationship with your nephew is plain sick and disgusting.
10. Wagner- stop spending money like a drunken sailor and stop getting involved in politics. You could have written 3 more operas with the time you will waste on those things.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Bruckner - stop dinking around revising your symphonies and complete your 9th symphony. God is watching you.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I think Bruckner did complete his 9th, or at least some evidence suggests that, but the manuscript of the final movement was lost. As for a concerto by Bruckner, one for his own instrument, the organ would be highly appropriate. But he hardly composed any works for even solo organ, he was first and foremost a great organist of other composer's musics, and also an improviser (Gounod said Bruckner was the best organist of that time, putting him above fellow Frenchman, Saint-Saens, who was also a great organist).

Anyway, here's a few I can think of:

1. Beethoven - Finish _Macbeth _(the opera), which you apparently started but it didn't get off the ground. I wish you'd done more opera as _Fidelio_ is easily amongst my favourites (even though I'm not a big fan of opera in general).

2. Boulez - Less ideology (and maybe less conducting?) & more music, esp. in solo piano and song cycles, which I've enjoyed from your exalted self.

3. Varese, Barber, Walton, Durufle, Sibelius, Rachmaninov and all composers who were discouraged for whatever reason from composing more - JUST DO IT! (usually they were discouraged for being 'out of step with modern trends' by critics and cogniscenti but sometimes, in Varese's case, for the opposite reason (too radical); or maybe personal reasons like depression too, or lack of funding/support)

4. Peter Sculthorpe - I wouldn't mind hearing another piano concerto, since I like your first & only one so much.

5. Arvo Part - More good stuff like you were doing before the early 1990's, less rehash which you've been wasting your talents on since (imho!).


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

Wagner - I'd like to be the ghost of Christmas yet to come and bring him to the future - say 1944 or so - where he could see the horrendous effects of anti-Semitism. 

Mussorgsky - get some help to stop drinking. When you sober up, your Muse may not still be there, but you won't die a wretched early death.

Mozart - hire a money manager, who invests your money wisely and keeps you and Constanze on a reasonable allowance. Quit gambling, or at least keep it to a few schillings a month. This way you won't have to work on five different projects at the same time.

Scriabin and Lully - get that infection looked after right away...


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

1) Mahler: Write more music! 
2) Wagner: Write a few symphonies later in your career.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Wagner - I'd like to be the ghost of Christmas yet to come and bring him to the future - say 1944 or so - where he could see the horrendous effects of anti-Semitism.

And undoubtedly you'd like to do the same for nearly every other composer in history... raised in a predominantly Christian Europe where antisemitism would have been quite commonplace.

Mussorgsky - get some help to stop drinking.

Indeed! And then sit your butt down and learn to orchestrate your own music and stop relying on Rimsky-Korsakov and others.

*Mozart*- Take Salomon up on that invite to London and write some more mature symphonies, choral works, and a couple more operas. And finish the Requiem!

*Schubert*- How about scoring some of these lieder for orchestra... or even a small chamber ensemble?

*Korngold*- Enough with those film scores... lets hear more music like your violin concerto or those great early operas!

*Shostakovitch and Prokofiev*- Get the f*** out of the Soviet Union!

*J.S. Bach*- Get the f*** out of that back-water town and head somewhere where you can write some operas and some more instrumental/orchestral music. I hear London, with your old buddy Handel, is quite nice.

*Vivaldi*- Enough of those concertos for those damn girls. Lets hear some more solo violin and viola sonatas... and more operas and choral music.

*Berlioz*- More marvelous song cycles like _Les nuits d'ete_; everything doesn't need to be bombastic.

*Rachmaninoff*- Keep doing what you're doing... what you love... and ignore those Modernist critics.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

*Mahler *- You should have stuck to conducting. You have absolutely no business writing music.

*Wagner *- You are an ***hole. But, alas, the world is full of ***holes, and you give us the most beautiful and powerful music ever penned. It is infinitely better to be an ***hole who gives the world such beauty to admire for all eternity than an honest man who does little more than keep warm before dying. Therefore, you are forgiven.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Sibelius - When you write that 8th symphony, for goodness sake don't chuck it in the fire...

GG


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

GraemeG said:


> Sibelius - When you write that 8th symphony, for goodness sake don't chuck it in the fire...
> 
> GG


But please, you should have done it to all your other symphonies!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

To *Ligeti:* I love you-_YOUR MUSIC_ I mean. More operas please. And I think a few short symphonies would have been nice. Nothing too big, not too grand, but fill our ears with colour. The amazingly vibrant tone colours of your music fill me with wonder. Your early works are like a fire the way they dance and burst with energy and light. Your middle period works drench my ears in colourful sonic landscapes. When I close my eyes and listen it's like the waves on a beach have pulled me out to sea and the micropolyphonic textures cover my body like a school of fish swimming around me while the incredible orchestrations are like exotic coral reefs bursting with vibrant colours and endless energy. Your later works are like all that you have done before but the rhythms really ignite something in me that make me feel so uplifted. My passion for your work is immense, but yeah as I said before, more operatic works would be nice. You did a couple of good anti-operas and one good opera and I can really see the dramatic elements in your later polyrhythmic style that would make good accompaniment for a stage work.

To Elgar: **** you I hate your stuff. It is the musical equivalent of poo I don't even know why you even bothered composing.


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> 2. Mozart- Why does the cello merely take the role of accompaniment in your piano trios.
> 3. Beethoven- A String Quintet please
> 4. Schubert- A concerto please, and a good fugue every now and again in your great works.


2- This is the case with all piano trios(and virtually all chamber music) from Classical Era. Strings are less important than piano in these. Beethoven has the first to attribut them equally-important roles.

3- Beethoven already has a string quintet ! I am talking about the *String Quintet, Op. 29 in C major* composed in 1801 (so it belongs to the classical style).

4- I want that too !

ON-thread :

Bach - More chamber/orchestral music ! If you hadn't wasted so much time with the cantatas you would have composed more instrumental music by now.

Mozart - Please compose something that do not bores me to death !

Liszt - More symphonic works, I know you can do it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sonata said:


> 1) Mahler: Write more music!
> 2) Wagner: Write a few symphonies later in your career.


Mahler doesn't need to be prolific to be good
Wagner's already existing 1.5 symphonies are enough. He wasn't a man for the symphony orchestra. He does the music dramas! And I personally think 10 good and 3 not so good operas are *not enough.* He should have written at least ten more!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Wagner was planning to write a Symphony after _Parsifal_. He died instead.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Wagner was planning to write a Symphony after _Parsifal_. He died instead.


Interesting. I do hope he planned for it _not_ to be in a conventional layout, orchestration and length like he did with his early ones. Now that I think about it, I reckon an unconventionally brilliant symphony by Wagner would have been nice after Parsifal. I can imagine three long movements of half and hour to fifty minutes each and _not_ depicting a storyline, but developing motifs just as he does in his operas. The story can be left up to the listener.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd invite Stockhausen but not before putting a whoopee cushion on his chair.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Mozart - Tell us another one of your fart jokes in the land of backwards. As for your music, just concentrate on writing operas and piano concertos, both are your favourites anyway. Forget the other junk.

Cage, Stockhausen, Xenakis, Ligeti _et. al._ - Please, stop farting in your music.

JS Bach - Stop shagging your wife so often, so you don't spend so much time looking after the kids as a result and be stuck in a local school.

Handel - At your service, Mr Handel. Anything you need, just send me a message. Yours truely, HarpsichordConcerto, patron. I'm available 24-7.

Haydn - You should have bargained for more privilege with your super wealthy boss, and divorce your wife.

Schoenberg - I know a good psychiatrist.

Beethoven - You need a shower.

Schubert - Make up your mind, you can't have both boys and girls.

Messiaen - You should follow your master-idol, Richard Wagner and write more operas.

Richard Wagner - We want a prequal trilogy to _The Ring_.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Cage, Stockhausen, Xenakis, Ligeti _et. al._ - Please, stop farting in your music.


Believe it or not, those twentieth century composers do not fart in their music. Their sheer and utter brilliance causes your brain to malfunction and send messages to your huge tanks of methane gas in your belly to erupt and fire large quantities of noisy stink out of your rear end. They don't fart at all. _You_ have a farting problem, kind sir. 
:tiphat:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Beethoven - You need a shower.


That's harsh! For the standards of the day he was probably quite hygienic (wasn't it his frequent washing in cold water that helped exacerbate his health problems?) - what he probably really needed later on in life was to have spent more money at the laundromat.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Calm down, dear folks. This thread is just a TV show, the comedy channel to be precise.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Mahler doesn't need to be prolific to be good
> Wagner's already existing 1.5 symphonies are enough. He wasn't a man for the symphony orchestra. He does the music dramas! And I personally think 10 good and 3 not so good operas are *not enough.* He should have written at least ten more!


I completely agree re: Mahler. He is my favorite composer.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

> Schubert- A concerto please, and a good fugue every now and again in your great works.


(with Viennese accent)

*Reply: *

_
"Oh well, I'm planning to write a piano concerto in my 35th year, sadly I have died before that.. Consider yourself lucky that I intended to write one, I have left so many unfinished works that it blows my mind how would I end them!..

Darn that fugue! I wrote one in my Mass in E Flat but it seems it needs a little more work. You see, I'm taking counterpoint lessons to this old fart, Simon Sechter and he keeps saying that I need to ignore the "melody" first before the structure. It's hard. Sadly, I died after taking a couple of lessons to him..  I badly needed to write a "Große Fuge Part 2" to my idol, Beethoven. If I ONLY have so much time left. I died at 31!!"_



> How about scoring some of these lieder for orchestra... or even a small chamber ensemble?


*Reply:*

_
I wrote one in my Rosamunde music, it's called Romanze for soprano and orchestra. I am busy with my friends drinking beers on these taverns in Vienna, and it's more simple to write on the piano.. I prophesied that years from my death, this old farts named Mahler and Strauss would write one. I want to hear them too. But for me piano works better for my tastes._


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## Dakota (Jun 30, 2012)

waldvogel said:


> Mozart - hire a money manager, who invests your money wisely and keeps you and Constanze on a reasonable allowance. Quit gambling, or at least keep it to a few schillings a month. This way you won't have to work on five different projects at the same time.


Yes, please take better care of your health. At least make it to 36 and finish that Requiem.......... or have another 36 years too!


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Bach - How about an opera? More concertos? Surely you've written enough cantatas at this stage.

Wagner - Dude, stop with the antisemetic essays, they're only going to serve to hinderyour music in the future. Now, how about a symphony or two?

Mendelssohn - I've really been enjoying your performances of Bach, but how about putting down the baton for a year or two and focusing soley on your compositions?

Glass - How are how are how are how are how how how how how how how are you how are you how are you hooowww hooowww hoooww hoooww are are are are are you you you you doing today? More symphonies in the same direction that your 8th took please!

Brahms - Hey, come on, I liked that piece, don't throw it away. Let your fans decide what pieces should be forgotten or remembered, it's not going to have a detrimental effect on your career if you put out one bad piece, and what if it's good? You could be depriving the world of a potential masterpiece!

Mozart - Here's some money. Get yourself to London and meet up with Haydn. Write some new symphonies and maybe even an English opera, and please try not to die in this timeline.

Schoenberg - YOU HAD ONE JOB ARNY, ONE JOB!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

StevenOBrien said:


> Glass - How are how are how are how are how how how how how how how are you how are you how are you hooowww hooowww hoooww hoooww are are are are are you you you you doing today?


Eliane Radigue - Hhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Reincarnated as Anton Webern, Mozart did get around to writing that Sonata for 'Cello and Piano.'

Not yet reincarnated, Schubert was simply never interested in any work which was about virtuosic display ~ and may God and Apollo bless him for that.

Reincarnated as Arnold Schoenberg, Wagner did get around to writing that symphony, the Kammersymphonie Op.9, and in its clarity of writing and turgid brevity, made up for all his past-life sins.


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## Jaws (Jun 4, 2011)

Mr Bruckner sir, please could you replace the sign outside your door that reminds people that you have designated your house as a nudist camp?


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

norman bates said:


> Eliane Radigue - Hhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


Wagner:

Act I: How
Act II: Are
Act III: You?


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## Dakota (Jun 30, 2012)

StevenOBrien said:


> Glass - How are how are how are how are how how how how how how how are you how are you how are you hooowww hooowww hoooww hoooww are are are are are you you you you doing today? More symphonies in the same direction that your 8th took please!


:lol: ROFLMAO!



> Mozart - Here's some money. Get yourself to London and meet up with Haydn. Write some new symphonies and maybe even an English opera, and please try not to die in this timeline.


Yeah........... if only..............


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## Very Senior Member (Jul 16, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> To *Ligeti:*
> 
> To Elgar: **** you I hate your stuff. It is the musical equivalent of poo I don't even know why you even bothered composing.


Interesting.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Interesting. I do hope he planned for it _not_ to be in a conventional layout, orchestration and length like he did with his early ones. Now that I think about it, I reckon an unconventionally brilliant symphony by Wagner would have been nice after Parsifal. I can imagine three long movements of half and hour to fifty minutes each and _not_ depicting a storyline, but developing motifs just as he does in his operas. The story can be left up to the listener.


It would probably still have been like a music drama but then without the words, like a symphonic poem really.


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

prefer to keep myself far away, have no dinner with any of them and just enjoy their music... most of the composers were (are) dissapointing by their personal characteristics !


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

Schubert: Okay, what's the deal on the Unfinished?

Cherubini: Doesn't it bother you that Beethoven is so much more popular than you?

G. Gould: Your string quartet is outstanding. Why didn't you write more?

Brahms: So you and Clara were really just friends?

Beethoven: Is it true that you came to dislike the chorale finale of your Ninth and intended to replace it with an instrumental one?

Salieri: Honestly, what happened?

Mendelssohn: Why didn't you publish your Reformation Symphony? It's your best one!

Sibelius: How come you lost all your hair, eyebrows and all?

Berg: Has anyone ever told you that you look like Oscar Wilde?

Mahler: So, what did Freud say?


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Wagner was planning to write a Symphony after _Parsifal_. He died instead.


Not the best choice...


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Bach: More violin concertos please!
Mozart: DON'T DIE SO YOUNG
Beethoven: Don't care what they said about Grosse fuge. Grosse fuge is a great work
Wagner: DON'T WRITE SO MUCH OPERA!
Sibelius: Don't care about the critics etc...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Andreas said:


> G. Gould: Your string quartet is outstanding. Why didn't you write more?


He would have if he didn't die. As af age 50 his main focuses were to be composing and conducting.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Bach: More violin concertos please!

Ummm... he only wrote two... or at least only two which have survived... as well as one "double concerto" for two violins.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

*Great Composers*: _<slightly drunk>_ "I thought this was going to be a nice dinner. Let's try this, you don't tell me how to compose and I won't tell you how to cook, alright?"


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

"So, Mr. Ligeti...*you* seem like a fun guy..."









"Mr. Ligeti??"









"Ah...Mr. Ligeti?????"









"Okay. *Now* you're seriously scaring me, bro."


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Wagner was planning to write a Symphony after _Parsifal_. He died instead.


 People ought to stick to their schedules!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> View attachment 6267
> 
> 
> "So, Mr. Ligeti...*you* seem like a fun guy..."
> ...


Love this post. Must print it and frame it.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Scriabin: Be as crazy, eccentric and megalomaniac all you want, just shave more carefully!
Beethoven: Spare us all and destroy Für Elise


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

DeepR said:


> Scriabin: Be as crazy, eccentric and megalomaniac all you want, just shave more carefully!
> Beethoven: Spare us all and destroy Für Elise


But I _like_ Für Elise (when I can tolerate tonal music)


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I could tolerate a lot of atonal music if that meant not having to listen to Für Elise.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Bach: More violin concertos please!
> 
> Ummm... he only wrote two... or at least only two which have survived... as well as one "double concerto" for two violins.


I know, less organ works and more violin works please!


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Enough about farting, this is a classical site.



ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Believe it or not, those twentieth century composers do not fart in their music. Their sheer and utter brilliance causes your brain to malfunction and send messages to your huge tanks of methane gas in your belly to erupt and fire large quantities of noisy stink out of your rear end. They don't fart at all. _You_ have a farting problem, kind sir.
> :tiphat:


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Believe it or not, those twentieth century composers do not fart in their music....


Well, there is an intentional 'fart' at the end of one of the movements of Ligeti's '6 Bagatelles for wind quintet.' When I heard it in recital, the audience quietly laughed, they got the 'joke.' But its got its serious side too, with one movement being a elegiac tribute to Bartok.

So, a fart can be the best (well, funniest) part of a piece. If carefully placed like that. We'll have no random farts, people! Let's impose a Stalinist dictat on that (& those Bagatelles, written in Stalinist Hungary, where never performed there at the time, we think of them as 'conservative,' but the party censors certainly did not!).


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## chee_zee (Aug 16, 2010)

taneev, y u no write memorable melodies


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Andreas said:


> ...
> Beethoven: Is it true that you came to dislike the chorale finale of your Ninth and intended to replace it with an instrumental one?...


Well, I've read kid of the opposite, that he intended the finale originally to be purely instrumental, then scrapped that and it became choral/vocal as we know today. Part of the old instrumental finale of 9th symphony ended up recycled in the finale of the Op. 132 quartet. Apparently, the British wanted a choral symphony - typical for them! - so they suggested it to Beethoven, but he eventually sold it to a local publisher and it was premiered in Vienna, not London. So 'Messiah Mark 2' did not happen as the Brits expected, but that has not dimmed its popularity everywhere.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Sid James said:


> Well, I've read kid of the opposite, that he intended the finale originally to be purely instrumental, then scrapped that and it became choral/vocal as we know today. Part of the old instrumental finale of 9th symphony ended up recycled in the finale of the Op. 132 quartet. Apparently, the British wanted a choral symphony - typical for them! - so they suggested it to Beethoven, but he eventually sold it to a local publisher and it was premiered in Vienna, not London. So 'Messiah Mark 2' did not happen as the Brits expected, but that has not dimmed its popularity everywhere.


I've read that too, but I've also read that after the premiere Beethoven said that he regretted writing the choral finale. He planned on composing purely orchestral symphonies after the ninth (and I believe he had at least another six planned!)


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Bruckner, your grand fortissimo climaxes would be even grander with a bit more percussion in them.

Gershwin, please write a symphony!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2012)

norman bates said:


> Eliane Radigue - Hhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww


Sweet!

Sachiko M - H..................................................... o

................................................................................................................................................... w


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

maestro267 said:


> ....
> 
> Gershwin, please write a symphony!


Sadly, before his premature death, Gershwin said he wanted to do exactly that. As well as write a string quartet, which would be a boon to chamber fans such as myself. But we have what we have. Like many of the greats, he gave us so much in his short life.


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## Orpheus (Jul 15, 2012)

Sibelius: Why just... STOP? 

Did you make some kind of vow to Apollo like Samson's Nazirite vow, and therefore lost all your inspiration along with your hair? 

Did the Muses stand aloof and offer you no more help once you ceased to wear that divinely spectactular moustache in their honour? 

Or did you take part in some theologically dubious Masonic ritual of epilliatory sacrifice that left you unable to compose again lest the Dark Shadow came for you before the agreed time? (This would explain why your eyebrows creepily went too, and why your last actually completed composition was some rather unsettling organ and vocal music for the Masons. It wouldn't explain the phantom "8th Symphony" though, unless of course that was incinerated as another sacrifice to Darkness...)

I hope I'm not requesting Forbidden Knowledge here or anything, but I suppose since I'm supping with the Dead already, I've gone down that road too far now to have anything to lose at this point.


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