# Mike Oldfield - Incantations



## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Wikipedia:
"Incantations is the fourth studio album by English musician, songwriter, and producer Mike Oldfield, released as a double album on 24 November 1978 by Virgin Records."

Does it belong here - in this classical forum? Is it any good? How does it compare with Reich, Glass and Riley et al. (Live version or if you don't want to listen to the intro chat go here).


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2019)

It doesn't seem to me to bear much relation to Reich, Riley or Glass, and it's at the back of my Oldfield collection not the front. No, any discussion about Oldfield's work belongs in the non-classical section.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> Well it rather depends what you're wanting people to say about it, doesn't it?


I'm not sure what you are saying. Oldfield seems to have roots in the same minimalism of the composers cited.

I'm just curious.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2019)

Sorry, I made a significant change to my post immediately after posting, having reread what you actually asked. I was initially confused by your "Does it belong here?"

Minimalism, if I've got it right, is about taking small phrases or bits of sounds and building whole sequences through repetition and variation, leading to quite different aural patterns and textures. Mike Oldfield writes tunes that he repeats and varies, and segues from one to another with bridge sections, but without the aim of creating different patterns and textures.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2019)

Here's an interesting article - up to a point.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/mar/02/minimalism-music-revolution-charles-hazelwood



> Think of Tubular Bells - an iconic example of minimalist influenced music. It takes simple grains of music or sound and repeats and repeats.


But the problem with the writer (conductor Charles Hazlewood) is that he also says:



> All western music up to this point (classical and popular) was narrative, goal-oriented music. It's like a story; it has an opening gambit (boy meets girl), a development (they fall in love), a climax (they lose each other), and a resolution (they marry or die). Minimalist music steadfastly does not do this.


Most of the Oldfield with which I am familiar (up to and including _Incantations_) clearly has a climax. _Incantations _even has a narrative! Whatever the philosophy behind minimalism, it seems to me that the actual techniques used by Oldfield are pretty conventional - not the same as minimalism. If Oldfield was in any way inspired by minimalism, the actual influence on his compositions was...well, minimal.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Although I am a pretty big Oldfield fan, I do not think he belongs in the classical forum. And I also don't consider him minimalism, although, I can see some loose connection. 

Oldfield also uses some Celtic folk influences, but that doesn't mean he belongs in a folk forum.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

janxharris said:


> Wikipedia:
> "Incantations is the fourth studio album by English musician, songwriter, and producer Mike Oldfield, released as a double album on 24 November 1978 by Virgin Records."
> 
> Does it belong here - in this classical forum? Is it any good? How does it compare with Reich, Glass and Riley et al. (Live version or if you don't want to listen to the intro chat go here).


Looks like you are completely off the mark.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> Here's an interesting article - up to a point.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/mar/02/minimalism-music-revolution-charles-hazelwood
> 
> ...


Thanks - Hazlewood's citation of Tubular Bells is preceded by the definition (well _his_ at least) 'its signature is repetition' - so it's woven from the same material but perhaps looks different from afar.

He also says:

_"But the young American revolutionaries - Glass, Terry Riley, Steve Reich and La Monte Young - made contemporary music that was hopeful and harmonious; music that chimed with the pulse-driven, youthful zeitgeist of rock."_


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

janxharris said:


> _"But the young American revolutionaries - Glass, Terry Riley, Steve Reich and La Monte Young - made contemporary music that was hopeful and harmonious; music that chimed with the pulse-driven, youthful zeitgeist of rock."_


It's an interesting thought, that Glass's white note harmonies suited American temperament after the Vietnam War more than the anguished dissonance of Babbitt and Boulez.

As for Reich, it's hard for me to imagine anyone thinking that his music is hopeful and harmonious, though he may have sold out, I don't know


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Simon Moon said:


> Although I am a pretty big Oldfield fan, I do not think he belongs in the classical forum. And I also don't consider him minimalism, although, I can see some loose connection.
> 
> Oldfield also uses some Celtic folk influences, but that doesn't mean he belongs in a folk forum.


Perhaps you are right in the sense that Oldfield has more clearly defined melody rather than pure minimalist texture.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> It's an interesting thought, that Glass's white note harmonies suited American temperament after the Vietnam War more than the anguished dissonance of Babbitt and Boulez.
> 
> As for Reich, it's hard for me to imagine anyone thinking that his music is hopeful and harmonious, though he may have sold out, I don't know


I can't help but wonder if there is anything remotely musical in Reich's piece.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

janxharris said:


> I can't help but wonder if there is anything remotely musical in Reich's piece.


Yes there is. The way he says "it's gonna rain" there's a melody, the syllables have a determinate pitch. And of course there's rhythm . . .


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> It doesn't seem to me to bear much relation to Reich, Riley or Glass,


One thing that it has in common with Glass and the later Reich is that all the instruments are playing at the same volume and the harmonies are tonal or modal. This is something minimalists took from pop music.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> Yes there is. The way he says "it's gonna rain" there's a melody, the syllables have a determinate pitch. And of course there's rhythm . . .


Can't argue with that.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> Yes there is. The way he says "it's gonna rain" there's a melody, the syllables have a determinate pitch. And of course there's rhythm . . .


I guess I struggle to find much that is of musical aesthetic value in such a piece. I would assume that once such a work is created then it would be quite easy to emulate.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Cuban missile crisis, the world looked on the brink of unimaginable disaster. Somehow what Reich is doing seems to fit in with that state of mind. That's why I reacted against Charles Hazlewood's "hopeful and harmonious"

As far as appreciation of it as music goes, in a weird way it's counterpoint. I think one source of pleasure comes from paying attention to how the two tapes relate, from enjoying that process.


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