# Merging the current listening threads for classical and non-classical



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

There has been a suggestion to merge the two main "Current Listening" threads (Classical and Non-classical):
https://www.talkclassical.com/72073-listening-thread-without-genre.html

In addition to the comments in that thread, the mods/admins team would like to get input from the users via this poll. Note that this is an important input, but we will not automatically do what the majority of the poll suggests.

The poll uses the terms "regularly use it" and "hardly/do not use it" - for those who like clearer definitions, let's say that regularly means once a week or more frequently, and hardly less than that. For "use", read someone who posts and/or looks at the thread.

Comments in this thread are welcome, but please keep them to the subject at hand.

The poll will close two weeks from now.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> Note that this is an important input, but we will not automatically do what the majority of the poll suggests.


So to be clear Art - regardless of how the poll goes you ( the committee) will make your own decision on this. Why bother with a poll then? No point in saying that it gives you an idea of how people feel if you're going to ignore those feelings.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

It depends on the overall outcome, not in the sense of whether it 'suits' our own ideas. We don't even have strong ideas about this one yet. But let's say 55% would rather not merge it, and 45% would rather merge it, we would discuss further to see whether we think the benefits of merging for the ones who want to merge would outweigh the drawbacks of merging for the opponents. We might still follow the majority vote, but it would not be automatic, and we might also not follow the majority vote. On the other hand, if say 95% would prefer not to merge it, I think it's pretty clear what we'd do.


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

It would make more sense to merge the classical listening thread with the opera listening thread.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Andrew Kenneth said:


> It would make more sense to merge the classical listening thread with the opera listening thread.


But opera listening thread has had some amazing opera-related discussions and reviewing in the past. Such discussions would be drowned under all other current listening posts. I'm not super active in the general current listening thread, but I think the opera one in overall has had more discussion than the general thread. It's an important part of it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

annaw said:


> But opera listening thread has had some amazing opera-related discussions and reviewing in the past. Such discussions would be drowned under all other current listening posts. I'm not super active in the general current listening thread, but I think the opera one in overall has had more discussion than the general thread. It's an important part of it.


I agree with that - that's why I did not even bring it up.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I rarely post my non-classical listening largely because I don't think there are many (or even any) members who know or have interest in the non-classical music I am listening to. Also, I'm generally not too interested in others' non-classical posts as they are mostly made up of albums from my youth, most of which I tired of a long time ago. 

I would support a separate "jazz I'm listening to" thread.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

If _all _the 'what I'm listening to now' threads were combined, and members were encouraged to say something about what they're listening to besides posting pretty (sometimes not so pretty) album covers, it might make for a more meaningful experience altogether, and promote listening across sub-genres, instead of folks remaining in ghettos. You never know - there might be an increase in crossover between opera and others!

Those who want extended discussions about specific pieces can create separate threads, or use composer guest books, or post in Groups...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Oh no! My team is losing. 

Oh well. Happens to me most of the time.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> I rarely post my non-classical listening largely because I don't think there are many (or even any) members who know or have interest in the non-classical music I am listening to. Also, I'm generally not too interested in others' non-classical posts as they are mostly made up of albums from my youth, most of which I tired of a long time ago.
> 
> I would support a separate "jazz I'm listening to" thread.


There's already one: The Jazz Hole (I hate the title)



Forster said:


> If _all _the 'what I'm listening to now' threads were combined, and members were encouraged to say something about what they're listening to besides posting pretty (sometimes not so pretty) album covers, it might make for a more meaningful experience altogether, and promote listening across sub-genres, instead of folks remaining in ghettos. You never know - there might be an increase in crossover between opera and others!
> 
> Those who want extended discussions about specific pieces can create separate threads, or use composer guest books, or post in Groups...


I agree completely. I think the forum would be improved with more cross-genre discussion and exposure. The listening thread, IMO, is like sitting in a bar talking about our favorite music or what we're currently interested in - no matter if it's Classical or not.

It recognizes that we are not one-dimensional creatures.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I've said this in another post, but the problem with having everyone's listening in one place, it would result in a significant increase in pages to scroll through, and it would be overwhelming. As it is now, the Current Listening for classical music is so active, it generates several pages a day, and it's hard enough to keep up with that section alone. 

Personally, I'm here because I'm more interested in learning about classical music than I am in jazz, rock, hip hop, rap, pop, world, techno, metal, and whatever other subgenre is out there. I dip into the non-classical section occasionally, but my real interest in this forum is in what people are discovering in the classical realm. 

But I'm easygoing, so whatever everyone decides, I'll go with the flow.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

SanAntone said:


> There's already one: The Jazz Hole (I hate the title)
> 
> I agree completely. I think the forum would be improved with more cross-genre discussion and exposure. The listening thread, IMO, is like sitting in a bar talking about our favorite music or what we're currently interested in - no matter if it's Classical or not.
> 
> It recognizes that we are not one-dimensional creatures.


You operate under the assumption that people would be more willing to discuss things than they already are. The current listening thread inspires little discussion, I don't see how adding more to the pile would solve this.

In general, I agree with Manxfeeder


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

SanAntone said:


> There's already one: The Jazz Hole (I hate the title)
> 
> I agree completely. I think the forum would be improved with more cross-genre discussion and exposure. The listening thread, IMO, is like sitting in a bar talking about our favorite music or what we're currently interested in - no matter if it's Classical or not.
> 
> It recognizes that we are not one-dimensional creatures.


OK, Jazz Hole it is! Thanks.

But I could not agree less with the idea of having cross-genre discussions and I see nothing one-dimensional about discussing and sharing experiences with classical music alone. What would we gain from comparing it with music of a non-classical genre? We do quite often have threads asking us to compare a (usually prog) rock piece with classical music and IMO they are often very tiresome with posts claiming the rock piece must be just as good because it has got key changes and the like, thereby reducing classical music to one or two compositional techniques. That and little "yes it is" vs. "no it's not" arguments. I like a lot of non-classical music but I tend to like the music that stands on its own laurels within its own genre. Take Radiohead - a band that has some links to the classical world but never ever tries to make music that begs to be compared with classical music. Great non-classical music does not need to be validated by comparison with the classical.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

I kind of like having a random catch-all thread in addition to the CM thread just for the fun juxtopositions but I'm not sure how much interest it would gather.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> You operate under the assumption that people would be more willing to discuss things than they already are. *The current listening thread inspires little discussion*, I don't see how adding more to the pile would solve this.
> 
> In general, I agree with Manxfeeder


I absolutely agree with the enboldened portion of your comment - but would say that I have always thought of the current listening thread as being a place to garner ideas for listening, hearing about recordings that are new to me or I had temporarily forgotten about, that has some minimal comment. If I'm looking for in depth debate or analysis thats provided in the multitude of other threads that are available to peruse.
If each of the posts was accompanied by a major comment the thread, for me, would lose its raison d'être.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

fbjim said:


> I kind of like having a random catch-all thread in addition to the CM thread just for the fun juxtopositions but I'm not sure how much interest it would gather.


We do have one titled A Listening Thread Without a Genre Restriction.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I’m in favor of keeping things separated as they are right now. I will be honest and say that I don’t like that particular listening thread that’s essentially a ‘free for fall’ in the classical section of the forum. I’m all for listening to classical music and popular music, but these don’t belong in the same thread, so, if I had it my way, I would move it to the non-classical section of the forum.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

One assumes that those who use the thread regularly have no or few complaints. One might also assume that some of those who don't use it, might be more inclined to use it if changes were made, such as those being proposed.

It's not clear that more people joining in is regarded as A Good Thing, however. Is that the case?


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Manxfeeder said:


> We do have one titled A Listening Thread Without a Genre Restriction.


Hoho. :lol:

That was a joke...wasn't it?


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Malx said:


> I absolutely agree with the enboldened portion of your comment - but would say that I have always thought of the current listening thread as being a place to garner ideas for listening, hearing about recordings that are new to me or I had temporarily forgotten about, that has some minimal comment. If I'm looking for in depth debate or analysis thats provided in the multitude of other threads that are available to peruse.
> If each of the posts was accompanied by a major comment the thread, for me, would lose its raison d'être.


I agree.

I use the Listening thread to quickly scroll the pages glancing at the images of recordings, some of which interest me enough to listen to as well. There are other threads that are true discussions - and then there are the listening threads which IMO are just a place for people to post literally what they are listening to, which is of useful interest as well.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Malx said:


> I absolutely agree with the enboldened portion of your comment - but would say that I have always thought of the current listening thread as being a place to garner ideas for listening, hearing about recordings that are new to me or I had temporarily forgotten about, that has some minimal comment. If I'm looking for in depth debate or analysis thats provided in the multitude of other threads that are available to peruse.
> If each of the posts was accompanied by a major comment the thread, for me, would lose its raison d'être.


No, I totally agree with you. I just didn't see how SanAntone's idea would change that.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> No, I totally agree with you. I just didn't see how SanAntone's idea would change that.


My idea would not nor was it meant to change the manner in how the Listening thread has operated. The only change would be to expand the listening selections to include genres other than Classical music.

Which, from my standpoint, would be fun and interesting, as well as, simplifying the forum:

One thread for "What Are You Listening to?"


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> There's already one: The Jazz Hole (I hate the title)


I hate it too plus the original poster is long gone. I'd prefer that thread was called - Jazz I Am Listening To. Even with the preposition at the end!:lol:


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

SanAntone said:


> My idea would not nor was it meant to change the manner in how the Listening thread has operated. The only change would be to expand the listening selections to include genres other than Classical music.
> 
> Which, from my standpoint, would be fun and interesting, as well as, *simplifying the forum*:
> 
> One thread for "What Are You Listening to?"


I don't think the listening threads need simplifying - assuming the same levels of posting in all existing threads amalgamated into one, the thread would become cumbersome and time consuming to read through, that may well reduce activity and affect interest in the thread. 
I, for example, don't care for Jazz but would have to trawl through all the posts related to Jazz to find what what interests me - at present I know where the 'Jazz Hole' is and if my interests should develope to include Jazz then that's where I'd turn. Most people know the areas of their general interest and gravitate towards those areas.

Earlier today I posted 'If it ain't broke don't fix it' I stand by that thought.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I think the idea of an unorganized forum where ‘anything goes’ is completely chaotic and this is the main reason as to why I don’t post on the Steve Hoffman forum any longer. It was jumbled mess over there and you couldn’t find anything resembling structure, because the forum isn’t really divided up in a way that’s easier to navigate. If Talk Classical went this route, I would definitely find the experience cumbersome and difficult to keep up with, but I’m sure there are several members here who wouldn’t care if a TV show thread is right next to a Shostakovich thread.


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## JohnP (May 27, 2014)

I agree with Malx and Neo Romanza. Also, there's this: the forum is called Talk Classical. That's why I came here. I do enjoy jazz a bit and dip into Jazz Hole when I feel like it--I agree that that's an awful title. I know where to find it. I know where to find the classical Current Listening thread. Mixing all the Listening threads would require plowing through a bunch of posts of little or no interest to me. I might not even bother. It definitely ain't broke.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

But are you interested in every composer or work that is already being posted in the Listening thread? I know I'm not. I scroll past many posts of no interest; it doesn't really take long. So what if there are a few more posts that don't interest you? They very well might be interesting to someone else.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> But are you interested in every composer or work that is already being posted in the Listening thread?


Interesting question. There are composers/pieces that I didn't care about until I saw them continually coming up in the Current Listening thread, and that sparked interest. A recent example is, I wouldn't have anything to do with Scriabin until I saw all the posts of people listening to Maria Lettberg, and that led to a great purchase. Right now Xenakis is coming up a lot, and though I swore him off in the past, I'm getting curious again.



SanAntone said:


> So what if there are a few more posts that don't interest you?


First of all, I appreciate your willingness to think outside the box and to kick around new ideas. 
But on this subject, personally, I think if they merge them all into one, I'm afraid there will be more than just a few posts. Just my two cents, though.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Forster said:


> Hoho. :lol:
> 
> That was a joke...wasn't it?


No, there is really a thread with that title.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> No, there is really a thread with that title.


Wasn't the one I created to discuss the idea?


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I joined this forum because it was about classical music and has provided me with a lot of enjoyment and education on that subject. Let's keep any side discussions off to the side, please.

And I agree with other posters the "The Jazz Hole" is a horrible thread title. Perhaps with something more amenable I might post in that thread more regularly as I do listen to quite a bit of jazz.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> Wasn't the one I created to discuss the idea?


You're exactly right. My mistake. I meant the one titled Current Listening - Anything Goes.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

D Smith said:


> I joined this forum because it was about classical music and has provided me with a lot of enjoyment and education on that subject. Let's keep any side discussions off to the side, please.
> 
> And I agree with other posters the "The Jazz Hole" is a horrible thread title. Perhaps with something more amenable I might post in that thread more regularly as I do listen to quite a bit of jazz.


I wonder if a moderator here could change the title of that thread?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I could. The thread starter is gone, so it is ok. Make a suggestion.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Jazz - what are you listening to now.

or 

listening to what are jazz you now - if its free form.

Sorry couldn't resist.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Did you leave out the "you" on purpose?


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

SanAntone said:


> Did you leave out the "you" on purpose?


My mistake - old age and getting ahead of myself.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Blake explained in the third post as to why he called it _The Jazz Hole_. I don't mind the name myself - I thought perhaps a thread for hip music deserves to be given a hip title.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Blake explained in the third post as to why he called it _The Jazz Hole_. I don't mind the name myself - I thought perhaps a thread for hip music deserves to be given a hip title.


If it were "hip"  but since several of us don't care for it, let's change it. "What Jazz are you listening to?" or the one already suggested - just no "holes" please.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Barbebleu said:


> I hate it too plus the original poster is long gone. I'd prefer that thread was called - Jazz I Am Listening To. Even with the preposition at the end!:lol:


We need a poll!

Jazz I Am Listening To?

or

Jazz To Which I Am Listening?


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## JohnP (May 27, 2014)

Forster said:


> We need a poll!
> 
> Jazz I Am Listening To?
> 
> ...


Winston Churchill, not a bad linguist, had a famous riposte on the subject: "From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." As a retired English teacher, I've always enjoyed that immensely. :lol:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I voted to keep them separate. I enjoy both but I know there are many here who don't have much interest in rock or jazz. And since this is mainly a classical music forum the classical listening section shouldn't be muddied up with other genres.

For the jazz fans who don't like the name, Jazz Hole, I suggest it be changed to The Jazz Lounge.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> You operate under the assumption that people would be more willing to discuss things than they already are. The current listening thread inspires little discussion, I don't see how adding more to the pile would solve this.
> 
> In general, I agree with Manxfeeder


I don't want anything solved. I prefer the current listening threads to be uncluttered without lengthy back and forth discussion posts. That's what all the other threads are for. The way things are now with a few short remarks about what people are listening to keeps these threads from getting all clogged up with rambling opinion and polemical posts. And it saves viewers from wading through posts of albums and music they have no interest in seeing or exploring.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> You operate under the assumption that people would be more willing to discuss things than they already are. The current listening thread inspires little discussion, I don't see how adding more to the pile would solve this.
> 
> In general, I agree with Manxfeeder


I don't want to increase discussion, I am fine with the way the current thread is. People have already pointed out that the Classical listening thread has 10 times as many posts as the non-Classical thread, so at most traffic would increase on by about 10%. There might be some interesting new discussions based on the inclusion of non-Classical posts - but that's not my main interest.

I simply would prefer a single Listening thread with both kinds of music.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Now I understand a bit better what you're trying to get to. But at the end of the day this is a classical music forum, it's Talkclassical not Talkmusic. I wouldn't have a problem if it were Talkmusic, but it ain't, and people here come mostly for classical, some will venture to the _jazz hole_ or the non classical music listening thread, but the main attraction is classical and I understand that most here would object to transforming this into something completely different. That said, I also come here for the classical music discussion, games, and to garner new ideas for future listenings -of classical music mind you-, this last item covered in part by the current listening thread.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Looks like pretty strong results -- 50 to 6 right now, 30 to 4 among regular users. It also looks like there is an element of having a refuge from what people are calling "pop music." I voted for the merge but we might as well preserve the safe space for the people who want it.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Well, we have three of these type threads if you also consider the "what opera are you listening to" thread, though that is not titled "current listening."

So I rarely post to either of the subject threads and they get way too much traffic for me to keep up with at my present interest level in those threads, though I occasionally will post to one or the other. I do regularly post to the "what opera are you listening to" thread and appreciate it being separate from other classical music listening to threads.

So, as long as the opera listening thread is left alone, it would not bother me if the other to are merged, though it seems a bit weird to do so--they are such different realms of music. 

Hey what if the software allowed (it doesn't) a means for a pseudo thread that actually combined the two threads for those wishing they were combined, yet allows for the two separate threads to still exist. Only problem how could new content posted to the pseudo thread be put in the correct place? Well maybe the pseudo thread is only for viewing and likes. Of course some genius could program that on their own to pull from both threads and interleave them by post dates. Never mind. I am just daydreaming.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> I could. The thread starter is gone, so it is ok. Make a suggestion.


How about: What Jazz Are You Listening To Now?

Seems simple enough.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I picked Neo Romanza's suggestion and changed the title.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> I picked Neo Romanza's suggestion and changed the title.


Great! Sounds so much better than 'The Jazz Hole'.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I'm pulling up a chair in the "If it it broke, why fix it?" camp.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I thought it would be nice that I could share my schizophrenic taste in music with you! Terje Rypdal to Paco de Lucia and then Alessandro Cortini f.ex. or a wilder one Corelli, Mayhem, Dua Lipa. I often jump around in genres and styles and periods.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> I thought it would be nice that I could share my schizophrenic taste in music with you! Terje Rypdal to Paco de Lucia and then Alessandro Cortini f.ex. or a wilder one Corelli, Mayhem, Dua Lipa. I often jump around in genres and styles and periods.


Yeah - I don't often check all the other listening threads and thought it would be nice to see a variety of items in one thread. But I guess you and I are in the minority.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

SanAntone said:


> I don't want to increase discussion, I am fine with the way the current thread is. People have already pointed out that the Classical listening thread has 10 times as many posts as the non-Classical thread, so at most traffic would increase on by about 10%. There might be some interesting new discussions based on the inclusion of non-Classical posts - but that's not my main interest.
> 
> I simply would prefer a single Listening thread with both kinds of music.


I guess we're in the minority here. Again. Not sure why 'Current Listening' needs to be broken down into subcategories. But, whatever.


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> I picked Neo Romanza's suggestion and changed the title.


Thanks. While you're at it, is there anything to be done about Dutilleux's Composer Guest Book page title, "What's The Deal With Henri Dutilleux?" ?

Anyway I voted leave it as is. It's not a bad idea, merging them would stimulate discussion, but I think the result has potential to be a mess and TC would have lost two unique threads.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I changed the Dutilleux.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm late seeing this thread so if I may ask. In the classical Current Listening thread normally people post an album cover plus any comments about the album. If the Current Listening Threads (classical and non-classical) threads are merged does that mean that non-classical posts would include an album cover?

I regularly posted in the "Song of the Day" (non-classical) thread but I see that it has been closed. I regularly went there so I could see old songs that I hadn't heard about in a long time. We posted music videos in that thread. Would the merged Current Listening thread allow video clips for non-classical music?

Personally, I think that there are a LOT of people that come for the Classical Music and would get very frustrated at seeing a "Beatles post" (example) mixed in. :tiphat:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I don't think there are restrictions for the current Current Listening threads. If people would be listening to videos (classical or non-classical) and posting that, it would be OK in the current threads and in a combined thread.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

science said:


> Looks like pretty strong results -- 50 to 6 right now, 30 to 4 among regular users. It also looks like there is an element of having a refuge from what people are calling "pop music." I voted for the merge but we might as well preserve the safe space for the people who want it.


Amen.

liaskflashf


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Noooo!!! Don't merge!! 

It would be a big mistake, and a number of us will go on hunger-strike!


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Neo Romanza said:


> How about: What Jazz Are You Listening To Now?
> 
> Seems simple enough.


I started a very popular thread with that title on another music forum, but I think 'The Jazz Hole' is a brilliant title - much better.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

HenryPenfold said:


> I started a very popular thread with that title on another music forum, but I think 'The Jazz Hole' is a brilliant title - much better.


It's got a bit of character compared to the generic new title. I suggested The Jazz Lounge, but the pedestrian choice took precedence here.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

starthrower said:


> It's got a bit of character compared to the generic new title. I suggested The Jazz Lounge, but the pedestrian choice took precedence here.


Yes, I like 'The Jazz Lounge', but 'hole' is grittier


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

HenryPenfold said:


> Yes, I like 'The Jazz Lounge', but 'hole' is grittier


Yeah! Kinda like a lot of old jazz clubs. I remember Ronnie Scott saying something about his club. "It's like home. It's filthy and all my friends come to see me."


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

There was a place here in Seoul before COVID in a basement somewhere, supposedly a jazz bar. Lots of students performing, sometimes even a group's very first public performance together. If there were five musicians, they probably outnumbered the audience. Place was a hole, period, and man, do I miss it.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

starthrower said:


> Yeah! Kinda like a lot of old jazz clubs. I remember Ronnie Scott saying something about his club. "It's like home. It's filthy and all my friends come to see me."


I used to go to Ronnie Scott's so often in the 1990s - great memories.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

science said:


> There was a place here in Seoul before COVID in a basement somewhere, supposedly a jazz bar. Lots of students performing, sometimes even a group's very first public performance together. If there were five musicians, they probably outnumbered the audience. Place was a hole, period, and man, do I miss it.


And so much quality music emanated from places like that .............


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Just a side note (no pun intended): back in the 1960's/early 70's jazz drummer Shelly Manne was part owner of jazz club in Hollywood named _*Shelly's Manne-Hole*_.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

HenryPenfold said:


> And so much quality music emanated from places like that .............


Makes sense! People come to listen, not for the decor.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Haydn70 said:


> Just a side note (no pun intended): back in the 1960's/early 70's jazz drummer Shelly Manne was part owner of jazz club in Hollywood named _*Shelly's Manne-Hole*_.


That was pun on his name. "The Jazz Hole" was not a pun.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> "The Jazz Hole" was not a pun.


But it was a hip name. I find it far more endearing than "What Jazz Are You Listening To Now?"


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

starthrower said:


> But it was a hip name. I find it far more endearing than "What Jazz Are You Listening To Now?"


It sounded vaguely @[email protected] Oh for chrissakes


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

HenryPenfold said:


> I started a very popular thread with that title on another music forum, but I think 'The Jazz Hole' is a brilliant title - much better.


Well, thankfully, "The Jazz Hole" has been abolished in favor of the "pedestrian choice".


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

HenryPenfold said:


> And so much quality music emanated from places like that .............


I did hear some really good stuff.

I also heard some pianists who didn't know they had a left hand, drummers who were almost good enough to be in a garage punk band....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> It sounded vaguely @[email protected] Oh for chrissakes


You mean it was real? Like a jazz club? A hole in the wall! If all you could think of is a body part, whose problem is that?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I think the name was intended as something like light-hearted self-mockery. Like there's this whole hoity-toity board and then there's the jazz hole, a dark and horrible place where the proles might meet. Just silliness. But it hurt people's feelings so I guess it stopped being funny.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The score right now (74 votes):

Pro merging: 11%
Contra merging: 81%
Neutral: 8%

Clear enough. It's not going to happen. Thanks for voting!


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