# Pristine Classical remastered recordings.............



## Itullian

Anyone here have any or familiar with these?
Their remasterings of old recordings are supposed to be
wonderful.


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## bigshot

If you like 78s to sound more like modern recordings, they're good. But I prefer straight mono, no digitized stereo ambience. Both Dutton and Pristine add stereo reverbs.


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## Itullian

bigshot said:


> If you like 78s to sound more like modern recordings, they're good. But I prefer straight mono, no digitized stereo ambience. Both Dutton and Pristine add stereo reverbs.


Pristine does only by request.
you can order without.


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## Ukko

Pristine has done a good 'recovery' job with some Schnabel recordings. If you have been unable to make the EMI-to-Pearl crackle adjustment, it's worth a shot.


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## bigshot

The best complete Schnabel was Mark Obert Thorne's for Naxos.


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## Ukko

bigshot said:


> The best complete Schnabel was Mark Obert Thorne's for Naxos.


There is no general agreement about which remastering is 'best'. I am aware of several, ah, positions on the matter, but the subject doesn't fit this thread.


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## bigshot

I've actually done digital restoration of Schnabel... the Eroica and Diabelli variations. I can post a link if you're interested. It's not easy to strike the balance between digital restoration and leaving well enough alone. But knowing what is actually in the recordings in the way of response, dynamics and detail, it's pretty easy for me to know what kind of baby is being thrown away with bathwater. It doesn't take much knowledge at all to know that EMI's thin brittle tone and Pearl's complete lack of noise reduction sound bad though.


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## moody

I believe that the price is pretty wonderful as well.


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## moody

Mistake please ignore. 'though somebody will probably post that this is all wrong !!!


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## KenOC

Schnabel -- now there's a worthy undertaking for the Zenph people. But it seems they've pretty much given up on new re-performances.


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## moody

KenOC said:


> Schnabel -- now there's a worthy undertaking for the Zenph people. But it seems they've pretty much given up on new re-performances.


What's a Zenph person?


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## KenOC

moody said:


> What's a Zenph person?


The Zenph people do (did?) re-performances of old piano recordings using computers driving a highly modified Yamaha piano. My favorite 1955 GG Goldbergs are the Zenph recording -- just like the original, but in good stereo sound and no humming along!

http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg...TF8&qid=1367992851&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+zenph


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> The Zenph people do (did?) re-performances of old piano recordings using computers driving a highly modified Yamaha piano. My favorite 1955 GG Goldbergs are the Zenph recording -- just like the original, but in good stereo sound and no humming along!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg...TF8&qid=1367992851&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+zenph


Didn't they do something by Rachmaninoff?


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Didn't they do something by Rachmaninoff?


Yes they did and it consists of the usual short pieces,pity they didn't do the Chopin recording.
This recording is available through Amazon (UK) I see,but I have his piano roll recordings which include these encores so I see no point in acquiring same. I wonder why they stopped as this is the only recording apparently available.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> Yes they did and it consists of the usual short pieces,pity they didn't do the Chopin recording.
> This recording is available through Amazon (UK) I see,but I have his piano roll recordings which include these encores so I see no point in acquiring same. I wonder why they stopped as this is the only recording apparently available.


I think the Standard Argument is that the piano rolls>mechanical player combination does not reveal the pianist's 'touch', which I interpret as being the particular sounds he could cause the instrument to produce. If that argument is valid, the piano that the mechanism is playing, being unknown to (in this case Rachmaninoff) would add to the error.

_Theoretically_, the Zenph process being based on an audio recording, more data regarding 'touch' may be accessible.

And I deny any personal knowledge about the accuracy of any of those opinions. I just dunno.


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## bigshot

Schnabel himself would have hated the idea! He was courted by reproducing piano companies for endorsements and turned them down flat. When a representative of the Duo-Art piano company proudly told Schnabel that their player piano was able to reproduce 16 distinct levels of dynamics, Schnabel dryly replied, "That's unfortunate, because I play with 17."


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> I think the Standard Argument is that the piano rolls>mechanical player combination does not reveal the pianist's 'touch', which I interpret as being the particular sounds he could cause the instrument to produce. If that argument is valid, the piano that the mechanism is playing, being unknown to (in this case Rachmaninoff) would add to the error.
> 
> _Theoretically_, the Zenph process being based on an audio recording, more data regarding 'touch' may be accessible.
> 
> And I deny any personal knowledge about the accuracy of any of those opinions. I just dunno.


I'm not talking about your saloon piano-player but very sophisticated machines that have a robot playing exactly what the pianist played complete with all the pedalling ,degree of touch etc, in fact every nuance,
But these machines must be very carefully set up and on certain recordings they had not been.


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## KenOC

Hilltroll72 said:


> Didn't they do something by Rachmaninoff?


Yes, Zenph did a Rachmaninoff album, evidently from old acoustical recordings. It's quite good; R. comes across as a very precise, restrained, and "classical" player. A fine pianist, certainly, but in these short pieces at least not a demigod. A Zenph software engineer notes: "This album was re-performed on a 1909 Steinway model D on which Rachmaninoff may have very well played." Here's the album:

http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-...1368037645&sr=1-1&keywords=rachmaninoff+zenph

It looks like Zenph is out of the re-performance business now. They probably found that the process takes a whole lot more time, labor, and expense than they anticipated. I suspect that in the older recordings a lot of the information is supplied by our brain's pattern-recognition prowess, something computers still have troubles with.


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## bigshot

The degree of accuracy also probably depends on the quality of the recording. But the better the recording, the less reason to do a robot version.

I seriously doubt that Schnabel would have been a good candidate for this process. His touch was extremely sensitive, and his recordings are notoriously diffuse.


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## moody

bigshot said:


> Schnabel himself would have hated the idea! He was courted by reproducing piano companies for endorsements and turned them down flat. When a representative of the Duo-Art piano company proudly told Schnabel that their player piano was able to reproduce 16 distinct levels of dynamics, Schnabel dryly replied, "That's unfortunate, because I play with 17."


The old ones are the best ones.


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## moody

KenOC said:


> Yes, Zenph did a Rachmaninoff album, evidently from old acoustical recordings. It's quite good; R. comes across as a very precise, restrained, and "classical" player. A fine pianist, certainly, but in these short pieces at least not a demigod. A Zenph software engineer notes: "This album was re-performed on a 1909 Steinway model D on which Rachmaninoff may have very well played." Here's the album:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-...1368037645&sr=1-1&keywords=rachmaninoff+zenph
> 
> It looks like Zenph is out of the re-performance business now. They probably found that the process takes a whole lot more time, labor, and expense than they anticipated. I suspect that in the older recordings a lot of the information is supplied by our brain's pattern-recognition prowess, something computers still have troubles with.


"At Least Not a Demi -God".
That is certainly a surprise to me because as a pianist he remains renowned,not least among pianists,as one of the greatest.
Have you listened to many of his recordings, such as his Beethoven's 33 variations. his account negotiates every nuance (there's that word again) from utmost delicacy to thunderous virtuosity' Schumann's Carnival, Op.9 and Chopin's Funeral March Sonata which is a whole new look at the piece and most fascinating.
Have you heard Earl Wild on Rachmaninoff,he knew the family.


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## KenOC

moody said:


> "At Least Not a Demi -God".
> That is certainly a surprise to me because as a pianist he remains renowned,not least among pianists,as one of the greatest.
> Have you listened to many of his recordings, such as his Beethoven's 33 variations.


Please note that I was commenting, as stated, on a particular recording.


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## bigshot

Your description of robo-Rach doesn't sound much like the real Rach.


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## KenOC

bigshot said:


> Your description of robo-Rach doesn't sound much like the real Rach.


Maybe it's not. But it's very good.


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> [...]
> It looks like Zenph is out of the re-performance business now. They probably found that the process takes a whole lot more time, labor, and expense than they anticipated. I suspect that in the older recordings a lot of the information is supplied by our brain's pattern-recognition prowess, something computers still have troubles with.


 I gave your post a 'like'... thought I maybe should quote the part I liked. I don't recognize your description of The guy's playing.


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## KenOC

Hilltroll72 said:


> I gave your post a 'like'... thought I maybe should quote the part I liked. I don't recognize your description of The guy's playing.


Not unlikely that you might disagree with my sense of the playing! That certainly happens from time to time around here.  You can sample the playing at the link below and decide for yourself. Note that the top half of the list are the recordings for headphone listening; the bottom half for speakers. It's a Zenph thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-...binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1368064161&sr=1-1


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> Not unlikely that you might disagree with my sense of the playing! That certainly happens from time to time around here.  You can sample the playing at the link below and decide for yourself. Note that the top half of the list are the recordings for headphone listening; the bottom half for speakers. It's a Zenph thing.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Rachmaninoff-...binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1368064161&sr=1-1


Amazon's samples are way too short. BTW it's the bottom ones that are binaural.


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## Itullian

Can we please get back to Pristine Classical's remastering ?
Make your own thread for Schnabel's Beethoven please.
thank you.

Anyone out there buying Pristine's remasters?
And how do you like them?
thank you


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## Bill H.

Some sound pretty decent, others I don't care for, at least when hearing the lengthy preview excerpts on the website--I give Pristine credit for doing that, unlike the 30 second snippets one usually hears on other sites. He sometimes goes overboard on the noise reduction and that does weird effects on the musical signal. Generally I like the "ambient stereo" effect and use something similar in my own remixes, but I don't like it when someone adds artificial reverb.

It should be stated that not all the remasters on the site are done by Andrew Rose--many are done by Mark Obert-Thorn, who uses a different approach that is often less interventionist in nature. So, in the end it's going to come down to whether you like the approach taken....I would always recommend listening to the excerpts on the site first before deciding.



Itullian said:


> Can we please get back to Pristine Classical's remastering ?
> Make your own thread for Schnabel's Beethoven please.
> thank you.
> 
> Anyone out there buying Pristine's remasters?
> And how do you like them?
> thank you


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