# Yet another thread on Regieoper



## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Yet another thread on Regieoper:

Should sex come before singing?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

"...productions such as Stefan Herheim’s Parsifal, Jonathan Miller’s Rigoletto, Peter Sellars’s Theodora and Dmitri Tcherniakov’s Eugene Onegin all work because, by removing the librettos from their original contexts, they open up levels of significance that would not have otherwise have been evident."

The librettos open up new levels of significance when you THINK and meditate on them, not when they are ripped out of context and while watching, you have to wonder about all kinds of stuff that has nothing to do with the author's idea!

Ufff.. I'd better not get going about this...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Actually I think all of these are good examples of interesting and thought-provoking productions. The Miller Rigoletto, particularly, is plain brilliant. I saw it 4 times in the 80s and it's my Rigoletto of choice. The updating to Little Italy of the 50s works on all levels and makes sense to audiences bought up on West Side Story and the Godfather. Don't forget that the court of Mantova was but one possibility out of many Verdi considered and it just happened to be the one approved by the censor, so that setting is arbitrary and not essential to the piece (unlike say, Tosca, which is very specific in terms of time and place).


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Of everything he said in the article, I think this is the single most important quote:



> some traditional productions in period costume are deader than dodos, and some deconstructed and wilfully provocative productions can be thrilling and revelatory. *It all depends on the intelligence and musicality of the director responsible, and the quality of execution*.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Aksel said:


> Of everything he said in the article, I think this is the single most important quote:


I think that even ardent Regie-haters would concede that the best Regie productions would be preferable to the worst traditional stagings; the thing is that when Regie productions fail, they fail spectacularly, at least far more spectacularly than poorly done traditional productions. It's much riskier, the fall is greater. A failed traditional production is, at worst, boring, merely boring.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

brianwalker said:


> I think that even ardent Regie-haters would concede that the best Regie productions would be preferable to the worst traditional stagings; the thing is that when Regie productions fail, they fail spectacularly, at least far more spectacularly than poorly done traditional productions. It's much riskier, the fall is greater. A failed traditional production is, at worst, boring, merely boring.


I'd take challenging and difficult over boring any day.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

My own feelings on this topic aside, something I am curious about is why Regieoper-haters will hate on a Regieoper production which has, what they believe to be the *wrong context*, when they will remain silent about the same opera in a Concert Opera form with singers in their street clothes, and *no context* _(and often no dialogue/recitatives)_?

Another thing which I am curious about is the bile that Regieoper-haters will pour on Regieoper. On the OPERA-L mailing list, someone went as far as to say that Regieoper-directors should be criminally prosecuted _(which would indeed by a trick considering the original works, for most part, are long out of copyright! )_. Considering that opera-goers always have the personal choice to attend any given performance, if a Regieoper director is successful and sells out their performances, then what is wrong with them offering *their* own personal vision of a work to *their* audience if no children or small animals are injured in the process?

_EDIT: Yes, I know- that these questions occur to me at all has marked me as one of those same ilk as political liberals (and in the States, a Democrat). :lol:_


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

For me, it still depends on the singers. I'll take top-notch singers in a perfectly idiotic Regietheater staging over mediocre singers in a fine traditional production. Of course, I'd be happier with top-notch singers in a fine traditional production (and I'm not a Republican!  ).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I'd like top singers in an excellent Regie production.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

MAuer said:


> For me, it still depends on the singers. I'll take top-notch singers in a perfectly idiotic Regietheater staging over mediocre singers in a fine traditional production.


Yes but when they change a fundamental part of the story it's so annoying.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

sospiro said:


> Yes but when they change a fundamental part of the story it's so annoying.


What, like a Traviata in which it turns out to have been nothing more than grippe, and they live happily ever after? I wouldn't mind seeing that. (Well, I say that now ...) lol


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

guythegreg said:


> What, like a Traviata in which it turns out to have been nothing more than grippe, and they live happily ever after? I wouldn't mind seeing that. (Well, I say that now ...) lol


Or like a *Götterdämmerung* from Copenhagen where Brünnhilde has a baby at the end. THAT I definitely do not want to see.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

guythegreg said:


> What, like a Traviata in which it turns out to have been nothing more than grippe, and they live happily ever after? I wouldn't mind seeing that. (Well, I say that now ...) lol


:lol:

Or a Jenůfa where the Kostelnička doesn't bury the baby under the ice but leaves it in a crib in an attic, presumably to starve to death??? Then a great chunk of the libretto is cut to fit in with this??


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Or like a *Götterdämmerung* from Copenhagen where Brünnhilde has a baby at the end. THAT I definitely do not want to see.


I love that Ring set., Baby and all.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

sospiro said:


> Then a great chunk of the libretto is cut to fit in with this??


I like Regieoper except when they change a word of the libretto. seriously. Not even a word.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

tyroneslothrop said:


> I like Regieoper except when they change a word of the libretto. seriously. Not even a word.


I think it depends on the context. Like the Lyon production of Offenbach's La vie parisienne changed the line "Voir la Patti dans Don Pasquale, et Thérésa dans le Sapeur" to "Voir la Dessay dans Don Pasquale, et Bartoli dans le Sapeur", in order to accommodate the updated setting (contemporary Paris instead of 1850's Paris). I certainly don't object to that, as it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the plot.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Aksel said:


> I think it depends on the context. Like the Lyon production of Offenbach's La vie parisienne changed the line "Voir la Patti dans Don Pasquale, et Thérésa dans le Sapeur" to "Voir la Dessay dans Don Pasquale, et Bartoli dans le Sapeur", in order to accommodate the updated setting (contemporary Paris instead of 1850's Paris). I certainly don't object to that, as it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the plot.


OK. I agree in such a case, but changing libretti is a slippery slope. I saw a _Regieoper_ Don Giovanni performance recently which was heavily tailored to the staging so as to not be anachronistic. While it was not atrocious, it definitely resulted in cognitive dissonance within my head when the words of Da Ponte were butchered in such a way.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

tyroneslothrop said:


> OK. I agree in such a case, but changing libretti is a slippery slope. I saw a _Regieoper_ Don Giovanni performance recently which was heavily tailored to the staging so as to not be anachronistic. While it was not atrocious, it definitely resulted in cognitive dissonance within my head when the words of Da Ponte were butchered in such a way.


That's not good. Which production was it?


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Aksel said:


> That's not good. Which production was it?


*this*

Remind me to wait until Tomer Zvulun has a bit more experience with _Regieoper_ before catching any other production of his...


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

tyroneslothrop said:


> *this*
> 
> Remind me to wait until Tomer Zvulun has a bit more experience with _Regieoper_ before catching any other production of his...


But were the words themselves changed? The review makes no mention of it. But it nevertheless sounds like something of a flop. There have been better updates of DG.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Aksel said:


> But were the words themselves changed? The review makes no mention of it. But it nevertheless sounds like something of a flop. There have been better updates of DG.


Yes, I know Don Giovanni like the back of my hand and not only did it get severely edited down for the Sesame Street attention span, even deleting entire arias, but the director changed some of the libretto to suit the futuristic time-period.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

tyroneslothrop said:


> Yes, I know Don Giovanni like the back of my hand and not only did it get severely edited down for the Sesame Street attention span, even deleting entire arias, but the director changed some of the libretto to suit the futuristic time-period.


Cutting is nothing new, and really shouldn't come as a shock, but changes to the libretto should be as few as possible.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Aksel said:


> Cutting is nothing new, and really shouldn't come as a shock, but changes to the libretto should be as few as possible.


As I said, while I appreciate _Regieoper_ productions, I actually hate it when they even change a word of the libretto. As you pointed out, that is perhaps overly strict, but it's the line I draw.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

tyroneslothrop said:


> As I said, while I appreciate _Regieoper_ productions, I actually hate it when they even change a word of the libretto. As you pointed out, that is perhaps overly strict, but it's the line I draw.


I largely agree. Although my views on this have evolved lately, mostly because of the Herheim Boheme.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Jonas Kaufmann speaking eloquently and at length on Regieoper _(the interview is in English)_!


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