# Greatest musical fragment of all time?



## stevederekson (Jan 5, 2014)

I have thought widely and deeply about this. Out of every musical form that exists, I don't believe there is a particular fragment of music more moving than the last 10 minutes or so of Mahler's 3rd.

I am referring to those pieces of music that make every nerve in your body twitch. What are your suggestions?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> I have thought widely and deeply about this.


Interesting. Can one think widely and deeply about such meaningless, pointless and unanswerable question as "what is the greatest musical fragment of all time"?

Still, I can't help but to admire that you have explored all existing music to be able to say that



> Out of every musical form that exists


it's Mahler 3rd.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Schoenberg : _Erwartung_ makes me twitch with Erwartung 

I noticed that Schoenberg left a lot of things unfinished: _Moses und Aron_ is another notable one.


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## stevederekson (Jan 5, 2014)

Aramis said:


> Interesting. Can one think widely and deeply about such meaningless, pointless and unanswerable question as "what is the greatest musical fragment of all time"?
> 
> Still, I can't help but to admire that you have explored all existing music to be able to say that
> 
> it's Mahler 3rd.


I must succumb to such unbearable wisdom.


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## TitanisWalleri (Dec 30, 2012)

I believe that perhaps the greatest musical fragment of what I have listened to is the chorale from Jupiter, The Bringer of Jollity. It makes my spine tingle every time I listen to it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The first 5 minutes of the adagio second movement of Schuman's 10th symphony (American Muse). Hauntingly beautiful.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Recognizing (very pedantically) that what you're really responding to is not the moment in itself so much as the moment in the context of the piece/movement as a whole...

I'd go for the appearance of the "Ewig" motif halfway through *Das Lied von der Erde's* _Der Abschied_, and the exclamation on "O ewigen Liebens - Lebens - trunk'ne Welt!". There's still so much darkness left to go, but already hope has made its appearance, and it only needs time to ultimately reveal itself in the glorious burst of C major at the conclusion.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, in a PM I've already alluded to setting yourself up to be flamed for looking for 'just bits,' -- but here is an assembly, while I most recommend at least listening to the entire movement, which makes 'the bit' as effective as can be, where isolation and a quick thumbing through never will.

My tastes go to later music more, and I've been up all night. Here are a few bits which 'float my boat' in a similar fashion, to me. If you are looking only for 'bits' in the same / similar late romantic genre, you are that much more limited -- few pieces end on a quiet sort of peroration, or a gesture or series of gestures fading to nothing, as few have stately apotheosis; most last movements end with a brisk to downright zippy finale.

if half of a full-length symphony qualifies, try the first half (in two contiguous movements) of Carl Nielsen's Symphony No. 5, the entirety of which I think you might find engrossing, if not mind-blowing in a good way  For a stunning finale, start at 26'30''

Sibelius ~ Symphony no. 7, start at about 17'00'' to get the contrast of the drama of the shift to the quiet sustain and somewhat surprise timing of of the finale.





The last segment of Stravinsky's Apollo, for string orchestra, is an elegant and quietly stunning Apotheosis, this final segment of the score marked "Apotheosis" -- hauntingly beautiful.





Prokofiev ~ piano concerto No. 3, 3rd movement finale (the entire 10'13'') Allegro ma non troppo, with a highly lyric and romantic mid-section which segues directly into a climactic fughetta - like finale at 08'07''





You must be familiar with the final movement of Saint-Saens over-the-top gigantic and grand Symphony no. 3?





One of the Tchaikovsky symphonies ends in a quiet fading whisper -- I'm certain near anyone other than me knows which.

De Falla ~ Nights in the Gardens of Spain, at 07'15'' in the final movement, one last large sweeping gesture, then fading to another haunting still quietness...





Resphigi's Fontane di Roma both begins and ends slowly and quietly.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

PetrB said:


> One of the Tchaikovsky symphonies ends in a quiet fading whisper -- I'm certain near anyone other than me knows which.


The "Pathetique", in B minor.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Aramis said:


> Interesting. Can one think widely and deeply about such meaningless, pointless and unanswerable question as "what is the greatest musical fragment of all time"?
> 
> Still, I can't help but to admire that you have explored all existing music to be able to say that
> 
> it's Mahler 3rd.


You're not exactly welcoming to new members, are you?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Also, the entire third movement ("The Alcotts") of Ive's Concord piano sonata. One of the most beautiful pieces I know.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

maestro267 said:


> You're not exactly welcoming to new members, are you?


I know, I know - I should have added "_Welcome on TC_ :tiphat:" at the beginning.

Sorry.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Like the Nazis welcoming the passengers on the trains.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I'm not talking your definition of fragment here, these are instances that are made extremely rewarding by the musical material before.

One that always sticks out to me: 4:23-4:27 of Janacek's Sinfonietta in this video, its those high "whistling" strings





And then at 7:08-about 7:16 in the 1st mvt of Bruckner's 7th, those whooping horns amidst the brass chords:





Also, after the most famous part of Also Sprach Zarathrustra, 4:07 to around 4:30, the most amazing string climax I can think of off hand, orgasmic


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

4th movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony...glorious music. I never knew such sounds were possible. How could mere man have written such music?


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

The minute or so of Gershwin's _An American in Paris_ before the "blues" section, starting with a question asked by solo violin, in which the celesta is prominent, containing a chord similar to the "Petrushka chord" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrushka_chord: major triads separated by a trichord plus an octave or two) but somehow not sounding terrible. It literally sends a chill down my spine every time I hear it.

Note: above, I used the word "similar" because someone wrote on Wikipedia's Talk page that a "Petrushka chord" _must_ have C major and F sharp major. I don't know enough to argue with that.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

I love it too, but is it a "fragment"?



Rachmanijohn said:


> 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony...glorious music. I never knew such sounds were possible. How could mere man have written such music?


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

If you think of it as part of a whole (The 9th Symphony) then yes, it is. Part of what's moving about its heart-on-the-sleeve outpouring of joy is partly because of what has come before in the previous 45 min.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

I'd say the last couple of bars before the abrupt ending of Contrapunctus XIV in the Art of Fugue, the first part of the Waldstein Sonata, or the complete evil aura given off by the fugue in BWV 565. (Toccata and Fugue in D minor) Either that, or the F-A-D-A-F-E-F#-G# motive of Contrapunctus XIII (inversus). All favourites of mine.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

spradlig said:


> Note: above, I used the word "similar" because someone wrote on Wikipedia's Talk page that a "Petrushka chord" _must_ have C major and F sharp major. I don't know enough to argue with that.


Wikipedia Theoreticians are even more pedantic than their established academic counterparts, it seems.


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

The last minute or so of Ravel's Concerto for the Left Hand. After a long section for piano solo, low woodwinds emerge with rays of hope. Then the music climbs, trumpets flourish, and the piece ends in defiant triumph.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Rachmanijohn said:


> 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony...glorious music. I never knew such sounds were possible. How could mere man have written such music?


Perhaps this "mere man" had divine assistance.


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Perhaps this "mere man" had divine assistance.


I'm inclined to agree.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> Wikipedia Theoreticians are even more pedantic than their established academic counterparts, it seems.


Well, I would agree another polytonal major-major triad not a tritone apart would disqualify, but _I would not be surprised if Wiki may at least seem to read like 'if that same relationship is transposed it is not admissible'_ because we all know who writes and edits wiki... flawed folk such as ourselves, and it ain't always genuine expertise combined with the allure of a decently paid writing job what got their stuff up on that page.

[To top that or perhaps match the pettiness of which you speak -- if my recall is correct -- one triad is in root position, the other in second inversion, which is essential to 'that sound :-]


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

maestro267 said:


> You're not exactly welcoming to new members, are you?


Whatever you make of it, there is a near absolute constancy there which shows a complete absence of personal discrimination -- or any other feelings at all -- toward any


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

The _Lever du jour_ movement in Ravel's _Daphnis et Chloe_ for me is one of the most emotionally captivating six minutes in music I know.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Neo Romanza said:


> The _Lever du jour_ movement in Ravel's _Daphnis et Chloe_ for me is one of the most emotionally captivating six minutes in music I know.


From the complete version only, with the full chorus, naturally


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

PetrB said:


> From the complete version only, with the full chorus, naturally


Why of course! Without the wordless chorus, it sounds completely naked!


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

In the first movement of the Chopin Cello Sonata, there is a fragment, a phrase, that tears at my heart. Here it occurs at approximately 7:40 and at 10:47:


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

@stevederekson, First off, *truly be welcome* to a very fine Forum. I see nothing at all wrong in your premise, as the term "fragment" seems to be wide open to interpretation; unless, of course, you wish to distill its meaning down further. 
If not--in any case--I find your inaugural posting here to be very interesting and thought provoking. *Thank You*. Now I have to go and consider some appropriate responses to your fine post. :cheers:


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

And Schubert created a few seconds during this beautiful song that have the same effect, for me, at about 49 seconds and again at 1:59. Hmmn, wonder why those descending melodic phrases just stop me in my tracks? Anyway, here:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

John Adams Dharma at Big Sur, II -- Sri Moonshine... a declamatory violin (electric, six string electric) slowly builds in long-breathed phrases to an ecstatic dance-like finale, with an insistent and continually layered orchestral accompaniment adding to the intensity under the continually climbing violin lines.

I consider the whole work a masterpiece, and even after having gained more than fair amount of familiarity with it, when I listen, as the music wends its very directed way into and through the finale, it nonetheless still has the skin of my scalp going tight, accompanied by those involuntary chill-like frissons.

If you must go 'with bits', start this second half / movement at 05'59'' -- because out of context, without the aria-like precedent to the dance buildup -- well....


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## Jacob Brooks (Feb 21, 2017)

I am certainly resurrecting an old thread but I just love the concept of it and wanted to share a particular moment of the Hammerklavier sonata: 




Something about this seems so brave and profound, and the melody recalls that of the Eroica. It fills my lungs with a sense of direction, meaning and purpose. What an excellent little section!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

That little five-note bit at about the 3:56 mark of Vieuxtemps' fourth violin concerto.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I thought a fragment was an incomplete work?


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

The answer to this question will change daily for me. Right now, I can think of this one:






Just this 2 phrases from 9:44-10:10, _"Ist auf deinem Psalter, Vater der Liebe, ein Ton" ("If there is on your psaltery, Father of Love, one note")_, when the male chorus enters. Heavenly!


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the first statement of the second theme of the Andante of Mahler's Sixth, first by the English horn, then supported by the clarinets. I stop whatever I happen to be doing at the moment, and my hand conducts it. I can't help it.

And of course, can't forget _Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen_ - I just gotta face it, I'm a sucker for a dreamy cor anglais lick.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'l just remind you all about the 'sunrise' passage in Sibelius' Night-Ride & Sunrise, when layers of brass rise gently above the grey horizon etc etc. Nothing ostentatious or bombastic about it, and it is followed by a little bit of bird-song. Delightful.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

The climax in Bruckner's 8 adagio, if that doesn't light up one's entire being, I don't know what will....


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## gHeadphone (Mar 30, 2015)

For me when the piano melding into the orchestra during the 2nd movement or Ravels Piano Concerto in G gets me every time.

However there are loads which can get me on the right day!


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## JamieHoldham (May 13, 2016)

Unsure if it's been said, but I will say it again... the climax to Wagner's Tristan und Isolde: Libestod is the single greatest piece of music in my opinion.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Final few minutes of Mahler's 9th


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

I've said this so many times but I'll say it again: Schubert's String Quintet in C, 1st mvmt


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

gHeadphone said:


> For me when the piano melding into the orchestra during the 2nd movement or Ravels Piano Concerto in G gets me every time.
> 
> However there are loads which can get me on the right day!


That's a really good one. I heard someone refer to that movement as having a kind of 'Mozartian purity'. So true.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

This will do:

Mahler 2 Finale: with an easy to follow annotated vocal score in 1080p HD. Mahler - Symphony No.2 'Auferstehung' (Resurrection) Finale with Vocal Score. Maris Jansons, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Netherlands Radio Choir, Bernarda Fink, Ricarda Merbeth.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

DeepR said:


> The climax in Bruckner's 8 adagio, if that doesn't light up one's entire being, I don't know what will....


Isolating a fragment never does it justice, in fact you simply need to listen to the entire movement, or entire symphony.

Still, I choose the "fragment" starting exactly from here:






...until 23:15.


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## gprengel (Dec 21, 2015)

There are so many magical moments in classical music ... but one that means so much to me is from Beethoven's 9th slow movement when the haunting 2nd theme reappears in the woodwinds (45:08) and then the violins add to them with a heavenly counter motif at 45:43 ...


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