# Do You Think Bigfoot/Sasquatch Exists?



## ArtMusic

It's a myth or it's real? I know of witnesses. I think they are credible. Poll is anonymous.


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## Dim7

I think they are social constructs.


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## ArtMusic

Dim7 said:


> I think they are social constructs.


Why? Interesting theory.

I voted the second option. I think they are likely real but I have not seen one.


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## Bulldog

Next you'll be saying that you believe in Little Red Riding Hood. The world of fantasy is very interesting, but it isn't real.


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## Guest

Your OP, Art, is based on a "closed" question form. You ask a "Does it ..." question, to which the reply can only be "Yes, it does" or "No, it doesn't". In my own case, my reply is "No". Thus, debate is closed down.


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## ArtMusic

Bulldog said:


> Next you'll be saying that you believe in Little Red Riding Hood. The world of fantasy is very interesting, but it isn't real.


What makes you think it isn't real? I'm not questioning you per se, I am questioning what factors may have led you to conclude why bigfoots/sasquatchs are not real?

If they can be proven to be fakes, then I certainly would like to know too and say these creatures are not real.


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## ArtMusic

TalkingHead said:


> Your OP, Art, is based on a "closed" question form. You ask a "Does it ..." question, to which the reply can only be "Yes, it does" or "No, it doesn't". In my own case, my reply is "No". Thus, debate is closed down.


I agree. This is a very closed question.


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## ArtMusic

Someone voted yes, and have seen one. You can PM me your experience if you wish. Thank you.


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## Aramis

ArtMusic said:


> Do You Think Bigfoot/Sasquatch Exists?


Yes, you do xDX xD x D X xxD xDDDD


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## ArtMusic

Aramis said:


> Yes, you do xDX xD x D X xxD xDDDD


I'm not a bigfoot.


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## MoonlightSonata

I voted "unsure", because I have no proof that anything but myself exists.


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## Bulldog

ArtMusic said:


> What makes you think it isn't real? I'm not questioning you per se, I am questioning what factors may have led you to conclude why bigfoots/sasquatchs are not real?
> 
> If they can be proven to be fakes, then I certainly would like to know too and say these creatures are not real.


Do you believe in Superman and Batman? Do you need proof to feel they are not real?


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## ArtMusic

Bulldog said:


> Do you believe in Superman and Batman? Do you need proof to feel they are not real?


Unlike Superman and Batman, there are not numerous credible eyewitnesses who profess they have seen them flying in the sky. Do you now understand my point? The contrast is obvious. Pure and simple.


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## Ukko

What I saw was either Sasquatch or Lloyd Pelkey.


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## Mahlerian

No. And I find alien sighting reports unbelievable too.


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## Guest

MoonlightSonata said:


> I voted "unsure", because I have no proof that anything but myself exists.


Thank you, Mr Descartes. Can I call you René?


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## MoonlightSonata

TalkingHead said:


> Thank you, Mr Descartes. Can I call you René?


Only if you admit that you don't really exist.


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## Richannes Wrahms

I don't really exist.


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## Bulldog

ArtMusic said:


> Unlike Superman and Batman, there are not numerous credible eyewitnesses who profess they have seen them flying in the sky. Do you now understand my point? The contrast is obvious. Pure and simple.


What's with the "credible eyewitnesses"? Maybe you could point me to the official list.


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## Bulldog

Richannes Wrahms said:


> I don't really exist.


What do you see when you look in your mirror?


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## MoonlightSonata

Bulldog said:


> What do you see when you look in your mirror?


But non-existent entities cannot look in mirrors, surely?


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## Richannes Wrahms

Aluminium and glass.


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## ArtMusic

Bulldog said:


> What's with the "credible eyewitnesses"? Maybe you could point me to the official list.


A matter of opinion and there is no official list, that should be obvious enough.


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## ArtMusic

MoonlightSonata said:


> I voted "unsure", because I have no proof that anything but myself exists.


I have read about the giant Moa bird of New Zealand that became extinct.


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## MoonlightSonata

ArtMusic said:


> I have read about the giant Moa bird of New Zealand that became extinct.


So have I. Why do you mention it?


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## SeptimalTritone

Yes, Bigfoot exists. I could get in a whole lot of trouble at school for saying this because it's really confidential information, but here goes because I trust you guys: Caltech has captured him in the Sloan basement and is currently experimenting with him with a joint collaboration between bioengineering and electrical engineering. To my knowledge, they're doing experiments where they attach light electrodes to his nipples and seeing how sexually aroused he gets upon increased voltage.


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## Bulldog

The U.S. could clone the big guy, then use them on military missions. That's what we need - drones and clones.


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## GreenMamba

No.

First, there are not numerous and credible witnesses. There are probably ore people who claim to have been abducted by UFOs. In this age of cell phones, you'd think there'd be a decent photo. 

Second, what is it? If it's a different species, then where are the rest of them? Animals don't exist as one offs.


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## clavichorder

Richannes Wrahms said:


> I don't really exist.


You don't exist in a material form, but I believe in you.


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## ArtMusic

Interesting response above collectively, and pretty much exactly what eye witnesses fear if they wished to share their alleged bigfoot experience - pure social ridicule.


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## MoonlightSonata

ArtMusic said:


> Interesting response above collectively, and pretty much exactly what eye witnesses fear if they wished to share their alleged bigfoot experience - pure social ridicule.


Of course you can expect to be ridiculed if you make a highly unlikely claim with little or no evidence.


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## Balthazar

No. Pure and simple.


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## ArtMusic

MoonlightSonata said:


> Of course you can expect to be ridiculed if you make a highly unlikely claim with little or no evidence.


Thanks and that says a lot about certain things.


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## Krummhorn

No - and isn't it interesting that _all_ the photographs or film that I have seen of such a being are always out of focus ... even the most simplest of basic cameras would produce a sharp and clear image (?).


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## ptr

I really miss the choice: Yes, I am one! (my hairy chest is proof enough my ex would argue!) 

Had to answer "no" in the absence of the above argument!

/ptr


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## Nereffid

I voted "No".

If the option had been available I would have voted "Oh for f***'s sake, no".


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## Ingélou

Part of me would love to believe that there's some hidden mysterious creature around - but on balance of probabilities, I don't. 
Similarly, stories of big cats on the loose in Southern England don't seem to add up, and the photos are blurred or else look like an extra large domestic cat seen from an unusual angle.
These things are always very intriguing, however...


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## Trout

ArtMusic said:


> If they can be proven to be fakes, then I certainly would like to know too and say these creatures are not real.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot


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## Jos

No


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## brotagonist

'en' 'oh' spells...


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## isorhythm

In case there was any doubt before, I think the age of ubiquitous cell phone cameras has proven there is no such animal - it would be all over YouTube by now.


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## MoonlightSonata

ArtMusic said:


> Thanks and that says a lot about certain things.


Please elaborate; what are these "certain things"? I'm curious now.


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## Dustin

Krummhorn said:


> No - and isn't it interesting that _all_ the photographs or film that I have seen of such a being are always out of focus ... even the most simplest of basic cameras would produce a sharp and clear image (?).


It's because bigfoot is _actually_ blurry. It's not any issue with the cameras.


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## Dim7

I'm pretty sure we could interpret "bigfoot" so widely that it/he/she would exist. From wikipedia:

"Bigfoot is described in reports as a large hairy ape-like creature, in a range of 2–3 m (6.6-9.8 ft) tall, weighing in excess of 500 pounds (230 kg), and covered in dark brown or dark reddish hair. Witnesses have described large eyes, a pronounced brow ridge, and a large, low-set forehead; the top of the head has been described as rounded and crested, similar to the sagittal crest of the male gorilla. Bigfoot is commonly reported to have a strong, unpleasant smell by those who claim to have encountered it. The enormous footprints for which it is named have been as large as 24 inches (60 cm) long and 8 inches (20 cm) wide. While most casts have five toes — like all known apes — some casts of Bigfoot tracks have had numbers ranging from two to six. Some have also contained claw marks, making it likely that a portion came from known animals such as bears, which have five toes and claws. Proponents claim that Bigfoot is omnivorous and mainly nocturnal." 

There's probably some human being in the world who would roughly fit that description.


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## GreenMamba

Dustin said:


> It's because bigfoot is _actually_ blurry. It's not any issue with the cameras.


Like the starlets of yore, he benefits from a smear of vaseline on the camera lens.


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## EdwardBast

I will give you a serious answer: An undiscovered mammal of that size in a population large enough to maintain the genetic diversity required for species survival is vastly unlikely. That it could exist undiscovered on the west coast of the United States is impossible. Seriously dude, it's a hoax — like alien abductions and the moon landing.


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## Ukko

EdwardBast said:


> I will give you a serious answer: An undiscovered mammal of that size in a population large enough to maintain the genetic diversity required for species survival is vastly unlikely. That it could exist undiscovered on the west coast of the United States is impossible. Seriously dude, it's a hoax - like alien abductions and the moon landing.


Your argument is flawed. Saquatch/Abominable Snowman/Bigfoot is - if the genus exists - a Siberian/Tibetan creature that could have reached the northwest coast of North America via land or over ice. Try again.


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## ArtMusic

EdwardBast said:


> I will give you a serious answer: An undiscovered mammal of that size in a population large enough to maintain the genetic diversity required for species survival is vastly unlikely. That it could exist undiscovered on the west coast of the United States is impossible. Seriously dude, it's a hoax - like alien abductions and the moon landing.


That sounds very reasonable. Thank you for making a logical suggestion.


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## EdwardBast

Ukko said:


> Your argument is flawed. Saquatch/Abominable Snowman/Bigfoot is - if the genus exists - a Siberian/Tibetan creature that could have reached the northwest coast of North America via land or over ice. Try again.


How and whence it arrived is irrelevant. All of my points stand. However, I'll try again: If it exists, a lazy and omnivorous hominid of that size is inevitably going to end up in my garbage cans and dumpster diving behind the supermarket. It hasn't.


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## Ukko

EdwardBast said:


> How and whence it arrived is irrelevant. All of my points stand. However, I'll try again: If it exists, a lazy and omnivorous hominid of that size is inevitably going to end up in my garbage cans and dumpster diving behind the supermarket. It hasn't.


 A thoroughly fallacious and illogical argument. Not up to the EdwardBast standard by a margin that suggests a prejudice toward racoons.


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## GreenMamba

Ukko said:


> A thoroughly fallacious and illogical argument. Not up to the EdwardBast standard by a margin that suggests a prejudice toward racoons.


So do you believe Bigfoot exists?


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## MoonlightSonata

One TCer in 11 claims to have seen a bigfoot. We should rename the site SasqWatch.


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## EdwardBast

Ukko said:


> A thoroughly fallacious and illogical argument. Not up to the EdwardBast standard by a margin that suggests a prejudice toward racoons.


Some of my best friends are raccoons! One of them, whom I have named Cartman because of his roughly spherical physiognomy and general ill-temper, visits my woodland realm on occasion. I tried to stare him down one evening and ended up scared and shaken. Okay, I admit it, I might be a little bit prejudiced against them. But I love imaginary hominids of all varieties: vampires, zombies, zombie-woofs, unicorn herders, yetis, Rosicrucians, bigfeet, existentialists, golems and dybbuks.


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## Ukko

GreenMamba said:


> So do you believe Bigfoot exists?


Belief ain't in it. The hominid exists or it doesn't. I say that it _could_, at least in the Himalayas - or even in Siberia. The North American Pacific Northwest is a longer reach, more Homo sapiens about in there.

It may be useful to forget about the construct labeled Bigfoot that has been created by admen (the one EB seems to be referring to). Also, Lloyd Pelkey is human, and looks pretty much human.


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## joen_cph

This _Lloyd Pelkey _keeps turning up in the discussion on the aforementioned subject, but googling doesn´t seem to produce any results; how come - who is that?


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## Ukko

joen_cph said:


> This _Lloyd Pelkey _keeps turning up in the discussion on the aforementioned subject, but googling doesn´t seem to produce any results; how come - who is that?


Hah. I am the bringer-upper. Lloyd is a classmate (60th reunion in a couple weeks). He was 6'1" and ~300 lb at age 13. Same height, more muscle and 280 lb in the National Guard after high school. He could bench press his weight. Saw him last a couple years ago. He was long bearded and long haired, actually did look a bit uncivilized, but walked with a cane. Hey, no reason Sasquatch couldn't use his club for a cane.


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## joen_cph

Good that Chewbacca isn´t considered real evidence. But it turns out there´s a Scandinavia website compilation too (however, they _really_ try to include everything):

http://scandinavian-bigfoot.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Scandinavian_Bigfoot_sightings

Besides that, I found a local blogger here claiming that his father had seen one - or something like it - in a Copenhagen upscale suburb, Holte, many years ago.


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## Ukko

EdwardBast said:


> Some of my best friends are raccoons! One of them, whom I have named Cartman because of his roughly spherical physiognomy and general ill-temper, visits my woodland realm on occasion. I tried to stare him down one evening and ended up scared and shaken. Okay, I admit it, I might be a little bit prejudiced against them. But I love imaginary hominids of all varieties: vampires, zombies, zombie-woofs, unicorn herders, yetis, Rosicrucians, bigfeet, existentialists, golems and dybbuks.


Aha! You are using the 'Dilute to Refute' strategy. Sasquatch as existentialist indeed!


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## Dim7

EdwardBast said:


> Some of my best friends are raccoons! One of them, whom I have named Cartman because of his roughly spherical physiognomy and general ill-temper, visits my woodland realm on occasion. I tried to stare him down one evening and ended up scared and shaken. Okay, I admit it, I might be a little bit prejudiced against them. But I love imaginary hominids of all varieties: vampires, zombies, zombie-woofs, unicorn herders, yetis, Rosicrucians, bigfeet, *existentialists*, golems and dybbuks.


Don't existentialists exist by definition??


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## Ukko

Dim7 said:


> Don't existentialist exist by definition??


That could be one of those logic-loop thingies. Internal logic? Ground loop? Circular logic? One of those?


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## Ingélou

Rosicrucians don't seem to belong on the list of imaginary hominids - unless I imagined working alongside one (an American) as an assistant in a University Library of Education once.


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## Mahlerian

Dim7 said:


> Don't existentialists exist by definition??


Only if existence is part of their essence.


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## TurnaboutVox

MoonlightSonata said:


> Of course you can expect to be ridiculed if you make a highly unlikely claim with little or no evidence.


I always thought that in New Zealand you had a 6-foot invertebrate in the ecological 'niche' taken by 'Bigfoot' in North America...


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## EdwardBast

Ingélou said:


> Rosicrucians don't seem to belong on the list of imaginary hominids - unless I imagined working alongside one (an American) as an assistant in a University Library of Education once.


I threw in a couple of ringers just for fun - glad everyone is awake and alert! Earlier I threw in "moon landing" as an example of a hoax, even though I know it actually happened.


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## Dim7

EdwardBast said:


> I threw in a couple of ringers just for fun - glad everyone is awake and alert! Earlier I threw in "moon landing" as an example of a hoax, even though I know it actually happened.


I assumed you meant the "moon landing hoax" -hoax.


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## MoonlightSonata

TurnaboutVox said:


> I always thought that in New Zealand you had a 6-foot invertebrate in the ecological 'niche' taken by 'Bigfoot' in North America...


Oh, we get those in the garden all the time. They do tend to eat the chickens, though, so we shoot them if possible.


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## isorhythm

Dim7 said:


> I assumed you meant the "moon landing hoax" -hoax.


Of course.


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## techniquest

Daft as it may be logically, I believe there are such things as Bigfoot & Yeti. I'm not so convinced about the Loch Ness Monster or God however.


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## Guest

techniquest said:


> Daft as it may be logically, I believe there are such things as Bigfoot & Yeti. I'm not so convinced about the Loch Ness Monster or God however.


Rather like Einstein:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."


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## Guest

MoonlightSonata said:


> Please elaborate; what are these "certain things"? I'm curious now.


Some small, some tall. Often blurry.


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## EdwardBast

Dim7 said:


> I assumed you meant the "moon landing hoax" -hoax.


No, nor did I mean the hoax-hoax hoax, as in the sketch:



isorhythm said:


> Of course.


Brilliant sketch! Thanks.


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## senza sordino

Sasquatch Days in a town about 100 miles east of Vancouver. 
http://www.tourismharrison.com/Sasquatch-Days

Please come here to the Pacific Northwest and find out for yourself if the Sasquatch exists.


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## Albert7

I met one on the set of Harry and the Hendersons. He also appears in the GEICO commercials.


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## Guest

ArtMusic said:


> Unlike Superman and Batman, there are not numerous credible eyewitnesses who profess they have seen them flying in the sky. Do you now understand my point? The contrast is obvious. Pure and simple.


Rather too many negatives here, but I get the gist. More to the point, can you provide some of the testimony of the credible eyewitnesses? And do you mean credible to you, personally, or to society, generally?


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## ArtMusic

MacLeod said:


> Rather too many negatives here, but I get the gist. More to the point, can you provide some of the testimony of the credible eyewitnesses? And do you mean credible to you, personally, or to society, generally?


To me personally. Someone I know well.

I keep an open mind. If I am proven wrong, then so be it. Actually I'm not advocating for or against the existence of extinct/rare creatures. There seems to be a lot of people who do think they have seen creatures. But there are plausible, logical reasoning that the environment is *very, very unlikely to sustain these creatures* etc.

It's almost like religion, is there a god to the many different believers (God of the Old Testament, Allah of the Quran, a sun god, a zen god, a god of [X] etc.)


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## isorhythm

ArtMusic said:


> It's almost like religion, is there a god to the many different believers (God of the Old Testament, Allah of the Quran, a sun god, a zen god, a god of [X] etc.)


I'm not an expert, but I don't think there's really a "zen god."


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## Guest

isorhythm said:


> I'm not an expert, but I don't think there's really a "zen god."


You're right, but then the other gods don't exist either!


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## mtmailey

I think that is another distraction provided by the media,i think it is just someone in a costume or ape outfit going around.


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## ptr

This turns out to be the most amusing thread so far in the month of June! 

/ptr


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