# Operas you want to see



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

This may rapidly descend into a silly thread, but maybe not.

I am not much into opera, though this is perhaps mainly because I can't afford to actually go _see_ one, and an opera is a show - you can't just listen to it. But I have rather liked the ideas for operas that I have seen from some modern composers. _Nixon In China_ comes to mind - how refreshing, after centuries of old myths.

It occurred to me that many films might also work quite well as operas, including, say, _Star Wars_ (which, in a sense, is pretty much a modern version of some old myths). (And _Plan 9 from Outer Space_ might make for a quite delightful comic opera!  )

So, what operas would _you_ want to see composed? Which composers? Tell us more!


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

I think a kung fu opera would be pretty awesome.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

brianvds said:


> I am not much into opera, though this is perhaps mainly because I can't afford to actually go _see_ one, and an opera is a show - you can't just listen to it.


I guess opera CDs aren't a thing then.

To actually answer the OP, I'd like to see Sciarrino write another Shakespeare opera, his Macbeth being so good, maybe Hamlet?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I wish Beethoven had written some more opera's.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Chronochromie said:


> I guess opera CDs aren't a thing then.
> 
> To actually answer the OP, I'd like to see Sciarrino write another Shakespeare opera, his Macbeth being so good, maybe Hamlet?


Shakespeare probably lends itself well to operatic treatment. But it also falls into the category of old been-there-done-that. 

If you ask me, a certain recent election would make a wonderful opera (it actually already was one, just without music). But they should wait a while before composing it, so that its significance can first become more clear.

And then there are all manner of other recent or relatively recent historic events: sinking of the Titanic, for example.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Pugg said:


> I wish Beethoven had written some more opera's.


I agree. He had planned to write operas on Macbeth and Faust, but he never got around to it. I so much wish that he had followed through with those plans...both of those topics would have been perfect for him!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Beethoven actually made some sketches for his Macbeth opera but didn't get very far. Some think he used his sketches for the witch's cauldron scene in the slow movement of his _Ghost _piano trio, which certainly has a strange and uncanny effect.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

brianvds said:


> Shakespeare probably lends itself well to operatic treatment. But it also falls into the category of old been-there-done-that.
> 
> If you ask me, a certain recent election would make a wonderful opera (it actually already was one, just without music). But they should wait a while before composing it, so that its significance can first become more clear.
> 
> And then there are all manner of other recent or relatively recent historic events: sinking of the Titanic, for example.


I dunno, I haven't seen any Hamlet operas around. I'm sure there was one by a Meyerbeer-type fellow, though, but a great one would be welcome. Plus have you heard Sciarrino's Macbeth? Hamlet would suit him fine.


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

I have been thinking about Serpieri's Druuna as a libretto for my 2nd opera... anyway I'm not sure much female singers will agree with the stage action... :lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Hamlet is a grand opera in five acts of 1868 by the French composer Ambroise Thomas, with a libretto by Michel Carré and Jules Barbier based on a French adaptation by Alexandre Dumas, père, and Paul Meurice of William Shakespeare's play Hamlet. --Wiki


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Hamlet is a grand opera in five acts of 1868 by the French composer Ambroise Thomas, with a libretto by Michel Carré and Jules Barbier based on a French adaptation by Alexandre Dumas, père, and Paul Meurice of William Shakespeare's play Hamlet. --Wiki


Rather a good opera, too. Best known these days for the mad scene, but has some fine arias:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Roman history is full of good stories. The Julio-Claudians are always popular - and how many operas have been written about Nero alone?

My choice, though, would be Caracalla (r. 198-217). Tried to kill his father. Murdered his brother in his mother's arms. Put Alexandria to the sword. Haunted by ghosts. Murdered by soldiers. Yikes!


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Arguably, the more important action by the Emperor Caracalla was his Edict in 212, to give all free men in the Roman Empire the Roman citizenship. 

Personally, I'd like an opera set during the First Punic War, preferably in Sicily.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Bettina said:


> I agree. He had planned to write operas on Macbeth and Faust, but he never got around to it. I so much wish that he had followed through with those plans...both of those topics would have been perfect for him!


Considering how much it took out of him to write _Fidelio_, I don't think he had any more operas left in him. ;-)


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

schigolch said:


> Arguably, the more important action by the Emperor Caracalla was his Edict in 212, to give all free men in the Roman Empire the Roman citizenship.
> 
> Personally, I'd like an opera set during the First Punic War, preferably in Sicily.


Important, but less dramatic! Universal Roman citizenship might be a subject for a German composer or Milhaud. Caracalla is ripe for a bel canto composer.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Actually, listening to operas on CD is a great way to experience them . You can follow the libretto in the booklet with an English translation . True, not all complete opera sets have this, but these are mainly the budget labels with pirated live performances . 
You can use your imagination to follow the drama without the distraction of singers who are overweight and don't look glamorous , which sometimes happens . You can have an idealized picture of the action and sets in your own mind !
But it's also great to watch them on DVD or PBS telecasts etc .


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

superhorn said:


> Actually, listening to operas on CD is a great way to experience them . You can follow the libretto in the booklet with an English translation . True, not all complete opera sets have this, but these are mainly the budget labels with pirated live performances .
> You can use your imagination to follow the drama without the distraction of singers who are overweight and don't look glamorous , which sometimes happens . You can have an idealized picture of the action and sets in your own mind !
> But it's also great to watch them on DVD or PBS telecasts etc .


Like following a movie's sound without watching it? And then you can imagine the movie, and not be distracted by stars that are too ugly? 

I have tried listening to opera, and reluctantly came to the conclusion that I can't stand it. The only thing that might make me change my mind is if I can see one; perhaps the show as a whole is better than the sound alone.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

brianvds said:


> Like following a movie's sound without watching it? And then you can imagine the movie, and not be distracted by stars that are too ugly?
> 
> I have tried listening to opera, and reluctantly came to the conclusion that I can't stand it. The only thing that might make me change my mind is if I can see one; perhaps the show as a whole is better than the sound alone.


Buy a ticket, go and seen one, best solution.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The Met revived Thomas' Hamlet several years ago ; I saw the PBS broadcast and enjoyed it . It may be on DVD now, so check arkivmusic.com or amazon . 
There are recordings on EMI and Decca , conducted respectively by Antonio De Almeida and Richard Bonynge , with Joan Sutherland as Ophelia on Decca . Sherrill Milnes is Hamlet on Decca and Thomas Hampson sings the role on EMI . Both recordings are excellent and well worth hearing .


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I've seen it several times, but I wouldn't mind going to Britten's Peter Grimes at the Met.

The only problem is finding an adequate singer for the title role, now that Jon Vickers is no longer "available".


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

brianvds said:


> Like following a movie's sound without watching it? And then you can imagine the movie, and not be distracted by stars that are too ugly?
> 
> I have tried listening to opera, and reluctantly came to the conclusion that I can't stand it. The only thing that might make me change my mind is if I can see one; perhaps the show as a whole is better than the sound alone.


What about operas especially made for radio?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

superhorn said:


> The Met revived Thomas' Hamlet several years ago ; I saw the PBS broadcast and enjoyed it . It may be on DVD now, so check arkivmusic.com or amazon .
> There are recordings on EMI and Decca , conducted respectively by Antonio De Almeida and Richard Bonynge , with Joan Sutherland as Ophelia on Decca . Sherrill Milnes is Hamlet on Decca and Thomas Hampson sings the role on EMI . Both recordings are excellent and well worth hearing .


And well worth having I might add, do noy forget the DVD with Dessay and Keenlyside


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Buy a ticket, go and seen one, best solution.


Around here, opera productions are fewa and far between, and when they do happen I cannot remotely afford it.



Sloe said:


> What about operas especially made for radio?


It's called oratorio.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

brianvds said:


> Around here, opera productions are fewa and far between, and when they do happen I cannot remotely afford it.
> 
> It's called oratorio.


Not even a live transmission from the MET in your neck of the woods?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Not even a live transmission from the MET in your neck of the woods?


Not that I know of. Last time I looked around on YouTube I didn't see much there either, at least not that has subtitles. Actually kind of strange, considering that almost anything else music-wise is available on the 'Tube. Mind you, I did find a modern opera there: film composer Rachel Portman's opera "The Little Prince." And I have to say, I found it quite delightful.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

brianvds said:


> It's called oratorio.


No, it's called radio opera.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> No, it's called radio opera.


That soprano has a face made for radio opera!


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Has anyone composed Lord of the Rings opera yet?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Has anyone composed Lord of the Rings opera yet?


I've started, have to finish the Trump one first.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> That soprano has a face made for radio opera!


Ouch!!!!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Has anyone composed Lord of the Rings opera yet?


Wagner sort of beat Tolkien to it.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

brianvds said:


> Wagner sort of beat Tolkien to it.


Goodness, another can of worms....


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Operas I want to see?

A Wagner opera commemorating the establishment of the State of Israel.


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## lluissineu (Dec 27, 2016)

schigolch said:


> Arguably, the more important action by the Emperor Caracalla was his Edict in 212, to give all free men in the Roman Empire the Roman citizenship.
> 
> Personally, I'd like an opera set during the First Punic War, preferably in Sicily.


A wonderful idea. Never thought of it, but it could be amazing. Good my friend madrileño.


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

The Grand Macabre!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Here in South Africa, we'll probably sooner or later see an opera about Nelson Mandela...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

lextune said:


> The Grand Macabre!


Can I say just one word?

Washington D.C.


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

brianvds said:


> Like following a movie's sound without watching it?


This is an interesting comparison, and has led me to reflect on my own response to opera in visual and aural mediums. Because as an avid opera fan I find that outside of seeing an opera live in the theater, I usually prefer listening to an audio recording of an opera to watching a video taping of a live performance. But the question is, why? I mean you're absolutely right, listening to the audio of a film without the picture would absolutely ruin the experience, so because there is a visual component to an opera one would think that I would be losing something _crucial_ by only listening to an opera and not seeing it as well. Yet I don't find this to be the case, and I'm persuaded to believe this is largely due to the fact that opera isn't primarily a visual art form in the same way that a film is.

In a film, the director is often the most important driving creative force behind the project, and are responsible for portraying their "vision" onto the screen. It's a story being conveyed through images, and while words and music often assist in the process, they aren't always necessary (or even present, i.e. silent films). Angles of shots, lighting, effects, editing, etc.; all of these are incredibly important to the art of film. In opera, on the other hand as I've noted before, the drama is primarily unfolding through the music as it investigates the subjective emotions and thoughts of the characters in crucial dramatic situations. There usually isn't a whole lot of exterior action that a viewer has to follow; indeed, when I'm in the opera house after I've taken in the essence of the scene (the scenery, costumes) I can casually glance up at the surtitles above the stage, glance back down at the characters, and let the music carry me along without feeling like I'm losing anything by not concentrating on the performers the entire time. And while everyone is going to be different obviously, I find that for me I can easily manufacture this basic "essence" of the scenes in an opera in my own mind by reading the description of it in the libretto, and often in a more preferable manner than what's presented on many opera stages. Also, not being a native speaker of many operatic languages, listening to a recording offers me other benefits as well: I can get a more intimate understanding of the words being sung, and the interplay between text and music, which allows me to flesh out the characters in an altogether fuller way than I'm able to when I'm following the surtitles above the stage or subtitles on a video recording, which are often paraphrased and omit many of the verses being sung by secondary characters when one or more person is singing at once in an ensemble. I'm actually not a fan of watching operas recorded on stage and presented in video format most of the time, because I find that watching extended close-ups of singers standing and staring at each one another, or off into space while singing is not exactly the most gripping thing to see. When you're watching an opera live in the theater you are observing the entire scope of the stage, including the choreography of other characters moving around, which is something usually lost in video recordings that focus on close-ups of that sort. The acting of singers is for me more natural and believable when seen from a distance rather than when observing sweat rolling down their brows and their mouths hanging open. But anyways, just my two cents.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Pugg said:


> I've started, have to finish the Trump one first.


_*Trumperdammerung!!!*_


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

Anything outside of love, religion and tales of medieval knights would seem odd to me.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Operas I want to see?
> 
> A Wagner opera commemorating the establishment of the State of Israel.


Judendämmerung... 



Faustian said:


> This is an interesting comparison, and has led me to reflect on my own response to opera in visual and aural mediums. Because as an avid opera fan I find that outside of seeing an opera live in the theater, I usually prefer listening to an audio recording of an opera to watching a video taping of a live performance. But the question is, why? I mean you're absolutely right, listening to the audio of a film without the picture would absolutely ruin the experience, so because there is a visual component to an opera one would think that I would be losing something _crucial_ by only listening to an opera and not seeing it as well. Yet I don't find this to be the case, and I'm persuaded to believe this is largely due to the fact that opera isn't primarily a visual art form in the same way that a film is.


Also true - in opera the music is quite an important component, and the good bits are perfectly listenable on their own. But I find all that endless recitative boring, or at least, it's boring if I can't see what's going on.

Of course, this is one again a question of personal taste. I tend to prefer abstract music anyway. Lots of people who dislike opera do so because, they say, it's all just so unrealistic. With me it's the opposite - I dislike opera because it's way too real! 



Norma Skock said:


> Anything outside of love, religion and tales of medieval knights would seem odd to me.


Well, one can drag love and religion into almost any story. Medieval knights perhaps not so much. Would Jedi knights do?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Massenet: La Navarraise
That would be a treat.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I think Hillary Clinton would be far more suitable as a subject for a modern opera than Trump because there is ambition, hauteur, adultery and a downfall involved. Trump is just too plain, monosyllabic and childish as a character to be believable as an opera protagonist but he would suit well as an antagonist. 

I think many more stories would suit but often we don't know enough about what exactly went on and who where the main players to see it in front of us. I'm thinking the former shah of Persia, the rise and downfall of Sadam Hussein or the WikiLeaks-affair. 

From The Netherlands - and for the Dutch - an interesting subject would be our former queen Juliana, her husband Prins Bernhard and the so called "Greet Hofmans-affair".


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

I would have loved to see an opera by J S Bach.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

LesCyclopes said:


> I would have loved to see an opera by J S Bach.


That would be really a nice surprise .


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> _*Trumperdammerung!!!*_


You may get your wish sooner than you think.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Sondra Radvanovsky doing a classic Norma, oh wait...that dream is coming, in September.:clap:


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