# The characters of Manon and Des Grieux



## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

I was not very aware of the operas "Manon" or "Manon Lescaut" (Massenet or Puccini) until I started studying them recently, since both are playing the Met this season. I'm really excited for the Massenet, which I'll be seeing one week from tonight. (The Puccini is several months away.)

As I absorb this excellent opera comique through recordings, video and libretto, I'm constantly struck by the similiarities between the Manon/Des Grieux relationship and, variously ...

Violetta/Germont 
Rudolfo/Mimi
Don Jose/Carmen

Of course, the source material of "La Traviata" refers directly to the novel "Manon Lescaut", though Verdi's opera precedes Massenet's or Puccini's. And of course it was Puccini who wrote "La Boheme" so the question of the meaning of these similarities must have been noted by many. Since I'm always interested in character archetypes, I'm just wondering what the literary and cultural significance is of a dark comedy involving a complex femme fatale and a smitten male suitor. Isn't that the story all these operas tell? Since "Manon Lescaut" is based on a novel published way back in 1731, would it be reasonable to assume that the original character of Manon as found in this novel influenced all of these characterizations?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

H Marc. Nice to have you back.

I don't know the whole history of the femme fatale archetype, but it certainly informs these operas (though it's so diluted in _Boheme_ that it's overwhelmed by romantic sweetness). Dalila, Kundry, Turandot and Lulu come to mind as further incarnations. Dumas's "Lady of the Camellias" may have been influenced by Prevost, but I'm pretty sure Merimee didn't have Prevost in mind when he created Carmen, who is like no other character in opera.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I've read _Manon Lescaut_, _La Dame aux Camélias_ and _Carmen_ and, to be honest, I find very little similarity between the three portagonists. Manon's love of finery and luxury is at the root of her downfall and she is really quite silly. She loves Des Grieux as well as she can, but really she loves luxury and finery more. Incidentally, I think Massenet's setting is much closer to the spirit of the novel than Puccini's and Massenet's Manon is closer to the Prévost character than Puccini's. Marguerite Gaultier, based on the real life character Alphonsie Du Plessis, who in turn becomes Violetta in Verdi's *La Traviata*, is very different. She is primarily a business woman and it is love that is her downfall. The book makes it very clear that she will not accept a penny from Armand/Alfredo because she needs him to know that what she gives, she gives freely. This is made obvious in the opera too when she shows Germont that it is she who is funding her and Alfredo's country idyll. Carmen is a different kettle of fish altogether, a free spirit who lives by her own rules, unfettered by the will of any man. She becomes unstuck because of her involvement with someone who is dangerously unhinged, choosing death rather than giving in to him. Death is preferable to a loss of liberty.

I haven't read Murger's _Scènes de la vie bohème_ but the opera concentrates on Mimi's sweetness and rather romanticises her being a woman of "light virtue". Unlike Manon, she is quite happy with simple things, nor has she had the business acumen to accumulate Violetta's wealth and she's a million miles from Carmen.

There are more similarities between Des Grieux and Armand/Alfredo (both from well to do families, the reputation of which they are sullying by dallying with women of easy virtue) than between them and Rodolfo and Don José, or between each other. Rodolfo is a poet who cares little for society morals, the other a simple soldier from a village who becomes dangerously obsessed with a woman who probably couldn't love anyone.


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> H Marc. Nice to have you back.


Thanks. I tend to come out of the woodwork when the Met opens for the season. Thanks for the hints to other similar characterizations!


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## marceliotstein (Feb 23, 2019)

Tsaraslondon said:


> There are more similarities between Des Grieux and Armand/Alfredo (both from well to do families, the reputation of which they are sullying by dallying with women of easy virtue) than between them and Rodolfo and Don José, or between each other. Rodolfo is a poet who cares little for society morals, the other a simple soldier from a village who becomes dangerously obsessed with a woman who probably couldn't love anyone.


I definitely agree that the characters of Manon, Mimi, Violetta and Carmen are all very different - and yes, I see more similarities between Des Grieux, Rodolfo, Germont and Don Jose. They are all knocked out by their respective women - in each case, the obsession becomes their defining characteristic. They know they are in over their heads, and they know they are making decisions they may regret, even as they commit themselves fully. So, yes, I find the tenors more similar than the sopranos. And I find this fact meaningful in its own way.

I wonder to what degree these characters may be based on Colombine and Pierrot?


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