# What do people think of Tchaikovsky Sixth Symphony?



## Guest

I have heard it only twice or thrice but the first movement is long and just goes dead silent for some time, sometimes. Patience testing. Do you like it?


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## Ukko

karajan said:


> I have heard it only twice or thrice but the first movement is long and just goes dead silent for some time, sometimes. Patience testing. Do you like it?




Thanks for this post, _karajan_. Those silences shouldn't be dead; the listeners are expected to be in them. If you are in the music, you will be in the silences too.


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## ScipioAfricanus

Tchaikovsky's 6th= Greatness


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## Art Rock

One of the best romantic symphonies.


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## Guest

Hilltroll72 said:


> Thanks for this post, _karajan_. Those silences shouldn't be dead; the listeners are expected to be in them. If you are in the music, you will be in the silences too.


why was the karajan in italic? "_karajan_"?

What does be in the silences mean?

MY question, precisely, how do you "be" in the music?


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## Ukko

karajan said:


> why was the karajan in italic? "_karajan_"?
> 
> What does be in the silences mean?
> 
> MY question, precisely, how do you "be" in the music?


1) I use italics to identify the word as a member's moniker.

2) See 'in the music'.

3) Listening to the music, one (I hope) becomes involved with/_in_ it. The silences are part of the music, part of its effect on the listener. Sorry, I don't know how to tell someone the process for being 'in the music'. Far as I know, it just happens. It must have happened to you, or you wouldn't be a member here, eh?

:tiphat:


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## aszkid

The first full symphony that i listened to. The one that got me into this musical world. Geez, the final of Allegro Non Troppo, the final of Allegro Con Grazia (dat pizzicatto kills me), the fabulous Allegro Molto Vivace, and the fully romantic expression of the last movement, Adagio Lamentoso. Gotta love it.


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## Avey

Tchaikovsky's Sixth is.


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## moody

aszkid said:


> The first full symphony that i listened to. The one that got me into this musical world. Geez, the final of Allegro Non Troppo, the final of Allegro Con Grazia (dat pizzicatto kills me), the fabulous Allegro Molto Vivace, and the fully romantic expression of the last movement, Adagio Lamentoso. Gotta love it.


You obviously got into the silences !!


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## aszkid

I really can't find a lot of silences on it. The final of the first movement is really slow and the oboe barely sounds. But it does. And if you pay careful attention to find it, you'll get your brains blowed when the second movement comes in.


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## aszkid

Hilltroll72 said:


> 1) I use italics to identify the word as a member's moniker.
> 
> 2) See 'in the music'.
> 
> 3) Listening to the music, one (I hope) becomes involved with/_in_ it. The silences are part of the music, part of its effect on the listener. Sorry, I don't know how to tell someone the process for being 'in the music'. Far as I know, it just happens. It must have happened to you, or you wouldn't be a member here, eh?
> 
> :tiphat:


Is that Zarathustra, in your avatar?


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## Feathers

It is one of my favourite pieces of music of all time and definitely my favourite piece by Tchaikovsky (one of the only composers from whom I have a definite favourite piece). I don't find it "patience testing". It's perfection.


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## Ukko

aszkid said:


> Is that Zarathustra, in your avatar?


Zarathustra is the globe-holder facing us, Ptolemy is the one facing him. It's a detail from a painting by Raphael.


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## moody

aszkid said:


> Is that Zarathustra, in your avatar?


No,it's farmer Giles and he's a hillbilly, Also he's not had much to say recently.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Zarathustra is the globe-holder facing us, Ptolemy is the one facing him. It's a detail from a painting by Raphael.


How pretentious--and I could have sworn you were farmer Giles.


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## techniquest

I think all symphonies - certainly romantic period onwards - have 'silences' which are as integral a part of the music as anything else written into the score.
I remember reading the score many years ago and seeing that the clarinet in it's descending solo around the middle of the 1st movement is marked _pppppp_; not silent, but as close as you can get without actually stopping!
As for what I think of the symphony: beautiful and tragic. Full of emotion and power and one of the greatest symphonies of its' time.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> How pretentious--and I could have sworn you were farmer Giles.


I have been unable to locate a suitable portrait of Farmer Brown - the one with the daughter and the shotgun.


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## moody

It's a fabulous piece of music,one of the first LP's I had. Conducted by Cellibidache and was the only official recording he made I believe.


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## anshuman

I have the Abbado recording. I esp. like the third movement,a great prelude to the tragic denouement


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> I have been unable to locate a suitable portrait of Farmer Brown - the one with the daughter and the shotgun.


Farmer Giles--don't you upset him !!!


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## moody

anshuman said:


> I have the Abbado recording. I esp. like the third movement,a great prelude to the tragic denouement


Renditions that I have and particulary enjoy are Horrenstein, Stokowski, Talich, Mitropoulos and Toscanini.
Abbado does nothing for me.


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## Ukko

In 1968 Oistrakh conducted a performance of the 6th during the 50th anniversary celebration of the Soviet Union. It was recorded, and released in a 2LP set. The recording engineer let the tape saturate in a couple places, but it still is a helluva performance. Russian brass doing its thing in there.


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## julianoq

I was "into" this symphony instantly, found it amazing from the very first notes to the end. Patience testing is definitely not a good definition for this amazing work!

I like Gergiev verison, specially for the tempo of the second movement.


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## drpraetorus

The 6th is a major advance in Tchaikovskys writing. It is not at all like the previous 5. Seeing where he was going, it is tragic that he died shortly after finishing it.


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## starry

I probably prefer the 5th more, I also think the third is very enjoyable and underrated. The 6th though is obviously very good, my favourite parts in the past the last two movements.


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## Skilmarilion

The 6th is a truly great work. I think for some the balance of the movements doesn't quite work, but to me placing the seemingly triumphant march before the heartbreaking adagio finale is a masterstroke. The 2nd movement waltz in (an almost bizarre) 5/4 time is one of my all time favourite movements. 

Absolutely a revolutionary work and an inspiration to many of the other greats for sure.


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## Guest

Hilltroll72 said:


> 1) I use italics to identify the word as a member's moniker.
> 
> 2) See 'in the music'.
> 
> 3) Listening to the music, one (I hope) becomes involved with/_in_ it. The silences are part of the music, part of its effect on the listener. Sorry, I don't know how to tell someone the process for being 'in the music'. Far as I know, it just happens. It must have happened to you, or you wouldn't be a member here, eh?
> 
> :tiphat:


And why would that be so? As far as i know only Beethoven 3,5,7,9 have really captured me with ninth being my all time favorite composition!

Perhaps his one or two piano concertos, but outside of that i haven't really found any work where i am simple _in the music_

Most of them have testing Andantes. [Looking at you, Bruckner and Mahler!]

Heck, i just cant seem to enjoy Andantes at all! Be Brahms, Tchaikovsky or Dvorak. No one seems to do it for me. But ofcourse i am not even a 6 month baby yet. So a long and exciting journey awaits me!


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## Guest

The responses make me feel like the odd child.... I shall listen to the piece a few more time and "rejudge" the pieces...


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## jim prideaux

I personally associate this symphony with everything I can dislike about classical music-overwrought emotionally and sounding too obviously like the outpourings of a tortured soul-but then again what do I know?


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## moody

jim prideaux said:


> I personally associate this symphony with everything I can dislike about classical music-overwrought emotionally and sounding too obviously like the outpourings of a tortured soul-but then again what do I know?


You asked the question,why not answer it !


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## DavidA

I have a particularly tortured version of this symphony by Pletnev.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Honestly, _karajan_, you seem to have a rather limited range of classical music that you do like... to such an extent that one might question whether you really like classical music at all.

How much of the recorded oeuvre of your namesake have you actually listened to?


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## Guest

Yes, Stu [whatever] . I have listened and enjoyed a limited range of musical works. Orchestral, piano, harpischord and cello works work for now but otherwise nothing seems to hit. To such an extent that i have actually asked myself the question if i am just a listener. Chamber works and other works are so boring and patience requiring that it's annoying. For now i shall divulge further in the above given works and not try the god forbidden string quartets....


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## moody

karajan said:


> Yes, Stu [whatever] . I have listened and enjoyed a limited range of musical works. Orchestral, piano, harpischord and cello works work for now but otherwise nothing seems to hit. To such an extent that i have actually asked myself the question if i am just a listener. Chamber works and other works are so boring and patience requiring that it's annoying. For now i shall divulge further in the above given works and not try the god forbidden string quartets....


No,you're more like just a talker.


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## Feathers

karajan said:


> Yes, Stu [whatever] . I have listened and enjoyed a limited range of musical works. Orchestral, piano, harpischord and cello works work for now but otherwise nothing seems to hit. To such an extent that i have actually asked myself the question if i am *just a listener*. Chamber works and other works are so boring and patience requiring that it's annoying. For now i shall divulge further in the above given works and not try the god forbidden string quartets....


What does "just a listener" mean?


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## StlukesguildOhio

I have listened and enjoyed a limited range of musical works. 

That's fine. No criticism of the fact. Everyone begins somewhere.

Orchestral, piano, harpischord and cello works work for now but otherwise nothing seems to hit.

"For now..." nothing seems to hit. So then why all the posts supposing that these works which haven't yet "hit" with you ("Let's be honest here...") haven't hit with a great many others. The very phrase "let's be honest here" seems to suggest that you imagine that the majority of us likely agree with your disdain for string quartets or solo piano music or opera or whatever.

i have actually asked myself the question if i am just a listener.

Aren't we all "just listeners"? Some with more experience than others... some having acquired a taste for music you currently dislike... all of us with different likes and dislikes.

Chamber works and other works are so boring and patience requiring that it's annoying.

Does that speak to a failing of the composer or the genre... or is it rather a failing on your part? You may actually be surprised to discover that with time you come to love some works you once hated... and some works will never speak to you. That's fine. Perhaps a better way of broaching the subject of music that doesn't speak to you is something along the lines of:

"I've recently listened to a number of string quartets by Beethoven and Haydn but I just can't seem to get into these. For those of you that love works of this genre what am I missing? Where do you recommend I start? "

Such would seem more productive than the conspiratorial:

"Let's be honest here; none of you really like those boring string quartets, do you? I mean honestly... its all just a pretentious facade, right?"


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## Guest

Very well.... Where should i start with string quartet?


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## Bone

karajan said:


> Very well.... Where should i start with string quartet?


Bartok 4 - nothing boring at all.

Beethoven Grosse Fugue - gripping and unrelenting. Also unplayable, so good luck finding a decent recording.

George Crumb Black Angels - if you're into that kind of thing.


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## agglerithm

It's a bit of a train wreck, but I like it.


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