# Listening to Choral Music at Home



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Has anyone noticed screeching on the high pitched notes in choral works such as the B Minor Mass while listening on headphones at home? What is the cause of that? Is it my headphones not being able to handle it?

Thanks for any advice you can provide.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

The screeching usually means hi-frequency distortion which can come from poor headphones, compressed music files or whatever you're using to play the music. If you only notice it when using headphones and everything else is the same then they are the most suspect.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> The screeching usually means hi-frequency distortion which can come from poor headphones, compressed music files or whatever you're using to play the music. If you only notice it when using headphones and everything else is the same then they are the most suspect.


Thanks for your help.

I have three headphones which are all supposed to be good headphones. I think I just need to turn down the volume.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It can also be caused by something in the chain being overdriven. An example might be driving an amplifier from a computer, where the amp's line-level inputs are connected to the computer's sound card speaker outputs.

What kind of setup do you have?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I have the Grado SR225e, Grado SR80e, and on ear momentum's by Sennheiser...?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I play CDs on a portable CD player with my three different headphones.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I play CDs on a portable CD player with my three different headphones.


Oh. Overdriving is probably out. This is a mystery as it should not be occurring unless there is something wrong in the CD player. Rare, but it does happen. But both channels??? I'm stumped, sorry.

Suggestion: Play one of the offending CDs on your computer and listen through the computer's headphone jack. It may not sound as good, but does the distortion go away?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I've reduced it to more of a ringing sound in the background in the louder portions...? Can that be explained?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I might just be hearing what is naturally on the CD too. I'm listening to the Otto Klemperer Mass in B Minor for reference.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

So, it played fine in my car...it's either my CD player or the headphones. I payed good money for my cans, so I'm hoping it's the CD player.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Did you try it on the computer, the way I suggested?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Did you try it on the computer, the way I suggested?


It went away in my car, but not my computer.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Do you mean listening to your computer using headphones?

Did you use headphones in your car?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Do you mean listening to your computer using headphones?
> 
> Did you use headphones in your car?


I used an external CD drive plugged in USB to my computer and the headphone jack, on the computer as well.

I used the car stereo, not headphones.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Portable CD, headphones = ringing
Car CD, speakers = no ringing
CD drive on computer, headphones = ringing

Sure sounds like headphones, but on more than one pair? I give up.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Portable CD, headphones = ringing
> Car CD, speakers = no ringing
> CD drive on computer, headphones = ringing
> 
> Sure sounds like headphones, but on more than one pair? I give up.


What is your set up?


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

I've been following this conversation since it started. It's highly unlikely that all 3 sets of cans are malfunctioning. Your headphones might be revealing, as they should, more information from the disc than your car stereo is able to reproduce. The disc you are using is a remastered analogue recording. Do you have some more current piece of choral music, something recorded digitally, to confirm that it is not the disc/recording itself?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Joe B said:


> I've been following this conversation since it started. It's highly unlikely that all 3 sets of cans are malfunctioning. Your headphones might be revealing, as they should, more information from the disc than your car stereo is able to reproduce. The disc you are using is a remastered analogue recording. Do you have some more current piece of choral music, something recorded digitally, to confirm that it is not the disc/recording itself?


So you think it is the disc/recording? When you say digital, can I use spotify? If so, do you have any suggestions?


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

I don't stream music, but I just looked at spotify's web page. If you have the premium version you will get HD sound, but either way, try listening to Will Todd's "Call of Wisdom" track #11 "You Have Seen a House Built". This will definitely put your cans through the paces. (Track #1 "The Lord is My Shephard" will show you how sweet your cans are).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What is your set up?


Computer, stereo amp, iPods -- all sound fine with headphones. If you have "ringing" issues with headphones and not with speakers, you might want to think about a possible hearing problem.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

I concur with Joe B. Grado headphones are extremely revealing (which is why I think they’re among the best for classical music - I have the 325’s). There must be a prior weak link in the signal chain causing distortion (file compression, amp distortion, or simply poor recording engineering). Also, high frequency vocals are among the hardest to reproduce without distortion. I experience this as well.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Joe B said:


> I don't stream music, but I just looked at spotify's web page. If you have the premium version you will get HD sound, but either way, try listening to Will Todd's "Call of Wisdom" track #11 "You Have Seen a House Built". This will definitely put your cans through the paces. (Track #1 "The Lord is My Shephard" will show you how sweet your cans are).


I don't have premium. I played the track, I'm still getting some ringing sounds on the high parts...I don't think my cans are malfunctioning, something is going on though. Turning down the volume seems to help!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Richard8655 said:


> I concur with Joe B. Grado headphones are extremely revealing (which is why I think they're among the best for classical music - I have the 325's). There must be a prior weak link in the signal chain causing distortion (file compression, amp distortion, or simply poor recording engineering). Also, high frequency vocals are among the hardest to reproduce without distortion. I experience this as well.


I think all I'm hearing is the natural distortion of the high frequencies. Listening at lower volumes does help the problem though.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I think all I'm hearing is the natural distortion of the high frequencies. Listening at lower volumes does help the problem though.


Yes, that could very well be. It's often an unavoidable situation with choral music.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I don't have premium. I played the track, I'm still getting some ringing sounds on the high parts...I don't think my cans are malfunctioning, something is going on though. Turning down the volume seems to help!


If you listen via your computer often, you may want to consider an external dac/headphone amp to improve your sound. I listen at my computer often (Oppo PM-2 cans and Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS). It's amazing how good the sound is playing CD's in the computer....not as nice as my main system, but qualitatively nicer than straight off the sound card.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Computer, stereo amp, iPods -- all sound fine with headphones. If you have "ringing" issues with headphones and not with speakers, you might want to think about a possible hearing problem.


I think the hearing problem may be that my hearing is too good! As I said above, I think what I'm hearing is the distorted high frequencies. It's more noticeable at higher volumes, turning it down is a good solution for me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Richard8655 said:


> Yes, that could very well be. It's often an unavoidable situation with choral music.


More reason to go see live music with those natural acoustics!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Joe B said:


> If you listen via your computer often, you may want to consider an external dac/headphone amp to improve your sound. I listen at my computer often (Oppo PM-2 cans and Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS). It's amazing how good the sound is playing CD's in the computer....not as nice as my main system, but qualitatively nicer than straight off the sound card.


Wouldn't that leave the listening experience even more exposed?


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Wouldn't that leave the listening experience even more exposed?


Don't know what you mean?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Joe B said:


> Don't know what you mean?


Wouldn't it reveal even more flaws in the recording?


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Wouldn't it reveal even more flaws in the recording?


You bet! That's exactly what I want to hear.....everything! There's nothing like having a clear window to the performance...warts and all. If the recording is flawed, you will know. Audiophile quality equipment, or for most of us equipment that gets as close as we can afford, is made to reveal all. Last night I was listening to a new release on the Delos label of the Poulenc Trio. At one point I realized I was hearing something that was not the music. Concentrating a little more, I realized I was hearing the action of the keys (if that's what they're called) on the bassoon. On another recording today, I could faintly hear the breathing of one of the performers. I don't have a problem with those kinds of "noise" at all.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Some thoughts: Portable CDs and CD drives/sound cards on computers may handle hi-frequencies poorly (particularly computer sound cards). On the other hand, some car stereos have excellent hi-frequency response. Also, this sort of ringing will more likely be noticeable on headphones than speakers. Also, as you already mentioned, watch the volume.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DaveM said:


> Some thoughts: Portable CDs and CD drives/sound cards on computers may handle hi-frequencies poorly (particularly computer sound cards). On the other hand, some car stereos have excellent hi-frequency response. Also, this sort of ringing will more likely be noticeable on headphones than speakers. Also, as you already mentioned, watch the volume.


What is a good alternative for listening to CDs on headphones at home and on the go?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What is a good alternative for listening to CDs on headphones at home and on the go?


I found portable CD players reliable back in the day when Sony and Panasonic marketed top-notch, albeit more expensive units. They don't make them anymore. In those days, it wasn't unusual that the cheap ones, such as GE etc., distorted at higher volumes and/or higher frequencies. These days I rip CDs to WAVs. If I want the best sound I transfer the WAVs unchanged to my iTouch or iPhone. The sound/music chips in the latter are excellent.

Btw, some DDD CDs from the early 80s had shrill high-ends due to the use of 'hot' microphones and other electronics that had jacked up high ends to compensate for vinyl's limitations, but were now being used for digital recordings.


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