# Intermediate difficulty piano piece written after 1945



## Praeludium

Hello,

I'm seeking for :

a) a piano piece written after 1945
b) preferably with a lively character, a fast tempo (not necessarily extremely fast but I need it to contrast with the other piece on my program).
b) Between 3 and 5 minutes
c) of intermediate difficulty - that's the hard point, since most of the contemporary music seems to be written to be of a stratospheric difficulty.
d) Written in a true contemporary language - not necessarily atonal, but definitely not one of those silly pedagogical pieces. I'd like to play a true work of the repertoire...



The other piece I'll be playing in my little program is Bach's Sinfonia n°2 (in c minor). I'll play those pieces as an entrance examination at my conservatory in September/October...

I've been thinking of Murail's Cloches d'adieu, et un sourire : too slow, probably way too hard. Same goes for one of the pieces of Henze's Cherubino.
It's maybe more on XXth century modernism side but I've been thinking of Mompou, Rodrigo, maybe Poulenc... Do you know any piece of them which could fit the bill? I'd still prefer what we think of as "contemporary music" but it'd also be fine.

About my level : the Bach will ask me a bit of work (first three voice piece), but it's of my level - eg. I could have begun to work on this with my teacher even if it wasn't the imposed piece. 
I'm also a more experienced guitarist, already studying at the conservatoire.

Thanks for your help !


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## Praeludium

So it doesn't exist ? ):


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## aleazk

What about this one?






I have not played the piece by myself, but I know an intermediate level pianist who plays it well.


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## LordBlackudder

all of the final fantasy and kingdom hearts piano collections are intermediate to advanced.


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## Praeludium

Aleazk : is it really intermediate ? o_o those chords and octaves seem quite hard.
I'll try to at least sight-read it anyway, if it's very pianistic I might try. Thanks for the link.


LordBlackudder : I doubt it'd be alright to play music for video games in a conservatory audition, but thanks.


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## aleazk

well, yes, definitely you need a decent technique to play it. But in comparison with other modern piano pieces (say, Ligeti's piano etudes, for example), this piece is of intermediate level. As you say, most of the modern piano repertoire is quite difficult.


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## Praeludium

aleazk said:


> well, yes, definitely you need a decent technique to play it. But in comparison with other modern piano pieces (say, Ligeti's piano etudes, for example), this piece is of intermediate level. As you say, most of the modern piano repertoire is quite difficult.


Ah I guess that if you compare it with Ligeti etudes it must seem very accessible q:


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## Norse

I'm not sure if this is 'contemporary' enough, but since you're thinking of Poulenc, I think it could be. It's from the early 50's so it's not too early, but it could be on the short side if something that takes around 3:01 to play is risky. (I'm thinking of the prelude here, you could throw in the fugue, but I think that will require a lot of work..) If this is 'almost something', you could look at the other pieces in op. 87, but most of the preludes are short and most of the fugues are fairly difficult. Plus, the Bach inspired qualities of the work in general might not be what you're after. (?)


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## SuperTonic

Kabalevsky's 3rd Piano Sonata was completed in 1945. I learned the first movement in college, and piano was not my primary instrument so it isn't super difficult, although I did find it quite challenging for my skill level. It may be a little longer than you were looking for though.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

*Ligeti's *Musica Ricercata is quite easy-intermediate. I think the movements usually range between under a minute to around four minutes in length. Here's one of them:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

This one's easier:


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## aleazk

You could also try Cage's 4'33''.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

aleazk said:


> You could also try Cage's 4'33''.


You'd need to have good stamina!


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## myaskovsky2002

I guess Sergei Prokofiev will do. He has beautiful sonatas. I didn't notice before that you compose. You don't seem like a teenager, you seem more mature. Happy birthday! You are Gemini, like my son. That is a double sign. I love Ligeti too. We can make a parallel with Schnittke. Ligeti is Béla Bartók's "son", his first string quartet is very bartokian. He was very imaginative, but all his life he liked to be a clown... Didn't he?

http://www.google.ca/search?q=gyorgy+ligeti&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CDjwT5ubBord0QHVoKn7Ag&sqi=2&ved=0CF8QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644

I love opera, thus I love _Le grand macabre_

To be followed.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I guess Sergei Prokofiev will do. He has beautiful sonatas. I didn't notice before that you compose. You don't seem like a teenager, you seem more mature. Happy birthday! You are Gemini, like my son. That is a double sign. I love Ligeti too. We can make a parallel with Shnittke. Ligeti is Béla Bartók's "son", his firts string quartet is very bartokian. He was very imaginative, but all his life he liked to be a clown...
> 
> http://www.google.ca/search?q=gyorg...QHVoKn7Ag&sqi=2&ved=0CF8QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644


I am a Cancer. Like Hans Werner Henze, Gluck and Cnote11.


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I am a Cancer. Like Hans Werner Henze, Gluck and Cnote11.


I am sorry... Today is July, the first. Cancer. I have an aunt who is Cancer. I read somewhere that they like to be home. Very "home-loving" people. They like slippers very much. Is that true? I don't know much about signs. I don't know who Cnote11 is/was. Wow, I am 4 times your age! You seem very mature for your age. Then, are you in secondary school? What about your leisures? Is it mostly music? Have you studied composition? Are you a "enfant prodige", do you speak any other language? How tall are you? What's your weight? Do you have interesting friends? Do they share your passion for music? Is your town very hot? What does your town look like? What about your parents? What do they do? Do you have brothers or sisters? Why you don't like to speak about yourself? Do you like Henze? I was trying to read your posts... I'm still trying.

Best

Martin, detective. Lol


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I am sorry... Today is July, the first. Cancer. I have an aunt who is Cancer. I read somewhere that they like to be home. Very "homey" people. They like slippers very much. Is that true? I don't know much about signs. I don't know who Cnote11 is/was.


I hope Cnote11 comes back soon. He was temporarily banned and it feels like he's been banned forever.


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I hope Cnote11 comes back soon. He was temporarily banned and it feels like he's been banned forever.


I'm really sorry to hear that. I was banned twice. Always the same guy. I prefer not to give details.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I'm really sorry to hear that. I was banned twice. Always the same guy. I prefer not to give details.
> 
> Martin


I'm sorry to hear that too. I think you are a wonderful member of TC, always helpful and encouraging and you have an excellent sense if humour!


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm sorry to hear that too. I think you are a wonderfulm member of TC, always helpful and encouraging and you have an excellent sense if humour!


Indeed, my sense of humour is one of my assets. I don't have many though... As I wrote as a motto, life is a comedy. I discovered this many years ago. I was banned because they told me I was using vulgar language. Once I wrote an expression in Spanish, in Spanish is not vulgar, but the moderator entered my words in google translator and he deducted they were bad words. I explained to him the real meaning, but reasoning with him is like trying to reason with Mike. Mike is very nice, but he's my DOG! Lol. This guy is very religious, I don't know if he is a priest or what... I'd say he is an "ORWHAT", a wannabe in life. Now I am avoiding every inconvenient word. That's not easy for me, but still... You haven't answer to my questions, I have spoken a lot about me. I'm a bit sad about that, I don't have your trust... I'll try to be patient.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Indeed, my sense of humour is one of my assets. I don't have many though... As I wrote as a motto, life is a comedy. I discovered this many years ago. I was banned because they told me I was using vulgar language. Once I wrote an expression in Spanish, in Spanish is not vulgar, but the moderator entered my words in google translator and he deducted they were bad words. I explained to him the real meaning, but reasoning with him is like trying to reason with Mike. Mike is very nice, but he's my DOG! Lol. This guy is very religious, I don't know if he is a priest or what... I'd say he is an "ORWHAT", a wannabe in life. Now I am avoiding every inconvenient word. That's not easy for me, but still... You haven't answer to my questions, I have spoken a lot about me. I'm a bit sad about that, I don't have your trust... I'll try to be patient.
> 
> Martin


I'm sorry. I have just been through an emotional climax in my private messages.  I have _vowed_ not to tell anyone *anything!!!*


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## PetrB

From what I surmise of your playing level, I think the Ligeti (nice suggestion from a Ligeti obsessed youngster  is beyond your grasp.

The intent of such date requirements on repertoire is a certain harmonic vocabulary, not 'late romantic' ala Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, etc. Poulenc, in the more edgy bitonal pieces, might do you very well.

William Schuman - Three-Score Set for piano (1943) - a bit early by date, but I am sure it would qualify. 





Darius Milhaud ~ La muse ménagère, Op.245 (1943)
This is a series of 14 miniatures, not 'difficult' but perhaps for you, 'tricky.' I've set the few which are 'up tempo' in bold font....

1.) La mienne (dédicace)
*2.) Le reveil*
3.) Les soins du ménage
4.) La poésie
*5.) La cuisine*
5.) Les fleurs dans la maison
6.) La lessive
7.) Musique ensemble
*8.) Le fils peintre*
9.) Le chat
10.) Cartomancie
11.) Les soins au malade
12.) La douceur des soirées
13.) Lectures nocturnes
14.) Reconnaissance à la Muse

they may all be too brief for the requirement -- good to know of in any case.









John Adams ~ China gates (1977) moderate tempo, this might be 'kinda perfect' for you, the program requirement, and running time (ca. 5 min -)





Toru Takemitsu ~ Far Away (1973)





The 'difficulty' of the Adams is more in the counting than the play. The Takemitsu too, may be 'new time' for you in the way of counting.

I just found this 'minimalist' toccata, which also might fit your bill, is also very 'up' in feeling and tempo, and to my ear does not sound 'too difficult' for you. Pleasant sounding thing, nice length for your needs, too.

Fulvio Caldini: Toccata n.1 op.38


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## myaskovsky2002

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm sorry. I have just been through an emotional climax in my private messages.  I have _vowed_ not to tell anyone *anything!!!*


It is ok for me.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

PetrB said:


> From what I surmise of your playing level, I think the Ligeti (nice suggestion from a Ligeti obsessed youngster  is beyond your grasp.
> 
> The intent of such date requirements on repertoire is a certain harmonic vocabulary, not 'late romantic' ala Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, etc. Poulenc, in the more edgy bitonal pieces, might do you very well.
> 
> William Schuman - Three-Score Set for piano (1943) - a bit early by date, but I am sure it would qualify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darius Milhaud ~ La muse ménagère, Op.245 (1943)
> This is a series of 14 miniatures, not 'difficult' but perhaps for you, 'tricky.' I've set the few which are 'up tempo' in bold font....
> 
> 1.) La mienne (dédicace)
> *2.) Le reveil*
> 3.) Les soins du ménage
> 4.) La poésie
> *5.) La cuisine*
> 5.) Les fleurs dans la maison
> 6.) La lessive
> 7.) Musique ensemble
> *8.) Le fils peintre*
> 9.) Le chat
> 10.) Cartomancie
> 11.) Les soins au malade
> 12.) La douceur des soirées
> 13.) Lectures nocturnes
> 14.) Reconnaissance à la Muse
> 
> they may all be too brief for the requirement -- good to know of in any case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Adams ~ China gates (1977) moderate tempo, this might be 'kinda perfect' for you, the program requirement, and running time (ca. 5 min -)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toru Takemitsu ~ Far Away (1973)


William Schumann... You made me know him. His music seems very interesting. Thank you!

About the French Milhaud.... His quality varies... He has good stuff and less good. Something I love is Le boeuf sur le toit, a bit Marc Chagal in music. Easy, direct, naive but kind of effective.






Sincerely,

Martin

Martin


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## PetrB

myaskovsky2002 said:


> William Schumann... You made me know him. His music seems very interesting. Thank you!
> 
> About the French Milhaud.... His quality varies... He has good stuff and less good. Something I love is Le boeuf sur le toit, a bit Marc Chagal in music. Easy, direct, naive but kind of effective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Martin
> 
> Martin


Martin: Milhaud's output is highly inconsistent ~ the recommended suite are all charmers, well-written and excessively musical: when I stumbled upon them, I thought, 'these are All good,' exactly because this composer is so frequently inconsistent.


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## Praeludium

Thanks a lot for your posts, it has broadened my choices quite a lot !
I think I'll sight-read the pieces mentioned (if I can find the sheets) and suggest the ones I prefer to my teacher.

The first Ligeti CoaG posted, the Ginastera and the Kabalevsky seem a bit hard but otherwise that's exactly what I was seeking for.
Takemitsu's For Away is great (I love Takemitsu, I played his _In the woods_ at a guitar exam recently. Great music.) but unfortunately it's too much static - if I had a lively invention/sinfonia as an imposed piece I'd definitely consider Takemitsu seriously..

One of the minimalist pieces could be a great choice as a contrast to the Bach, I'll definitely think about it. 
The Schumann pieces are very close to what I was seeking for in term of mood, tempo and pianisms.
Otherwise I'll think about Poulenc/Milhaud or even better, Alain 

Thanks a lot.


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## myaskovsky2002

PetrB said:


> Martin: Milhaud's output is highly inconsistent ~ the recommended suite are all charmers, well-written and excessively musical: when I stumbled upon them, I thought, 'these are All good,' exactly because this composer is so frequently inconsistent.


I couldn't agree more. Inconsitent is the perfect word. I didn't find it, you did. Bravo maestro! Those are the problems when English is not your mother tongue.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

Praeludium said:


> Thanks a lot for your posts, it has broadened my choices quite a lot !
> I think I'll sight-read the pieces mentioned (if I can find the sheets) and suggest the ones I prefer to my teacher.
> 
> The first Ligeti CoaG posted, the Ginastera and the Kabalevsky seem a bit hard but otherwise that's exactly what I was seeking for.
> Takemitsu's For Away is great (I love Takemitsu, I played his _In the woods_ at a guitar exam recently. Great music.) but unfortunately it's too much static - if I had a lively invention/sinfonia as an imposed piece I'd definitely consider Takemitsu seriously..
> 
> One of the minimalist pieces could be a great choice as a contrast to the Bach, I'll definitely think about it.
> The Schumann pieces are very close to what I was seeking for in term of mood, tempo and pianisms.
> Otherwise I'll think about Poulenc/Milhaud or even better, Alain
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Well... If the parameters are: minimalist, simple... pretty stupid, the best would be Philipp. Philipp whom? Philip Glass, natürlich!






"Le voir pour le croire" (you have to see it to believe it).

You have so many mediocre composers.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## Praeludium

Isn't it a bit harsh for John Adams ? 
I liked China Gates - which _could almost be new-age in some kind of way_, but fortunately isn't. 
The Glass piece you posted is just dumb, I agree.


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## Praeludium

Finally I've chosen the John Adams piece (China Gates). Much harder than what it seems, at least for me !
It took me two weeks (I work on the piano about 1h30/2h a day) to understand how to work on the piece properly (learning and understanding the RH so that's it can be on autopilot, without losing the pulse. Learning the LH, being careful with the rhythm, which is harder than it seems to be. Seeing where the "collisions" between the voices are (when the two hands play the same note). Putting this together, motive by motive, using your ears a great deal.). The central parts with eight notes on the two hands is really nasty. It's an relatively easy piece on a physical point of view (apart from the fact that there mustn't be any accent anywhere), but it's hard to actually play the piece accurately rhythmically.


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## PetrB

"Bump!" one year and a little + later... How did it go?


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## Praeludium

Thanks for asking  
I got accepted at my Regional Conservatory (in France, conservatories are public music schools. The Regional conservatories are the conservatories supposed to be just below the two National conservatories of Paris and Lyon. Of course the level depends of the schools, the teachers, etc.) to study piano on the top of guitar.
I don't remember when exactly I changed the pieces, but I had to play Grieg's Papillons instead of the John Adams piece (I liked the Adams piece better, I think, at least I do now), partly because the pieces had to be played from memory, and playing this from memory was going to be very hard ! q:
But the important thing (for me) is that I'm able to study one hour per week with a great piano teacher (I think of a regional conservatory teacher as an equivalent of an university teacher in the US) !
She assigned me three pieces for this summer, one of them being the last piece of Poulenc's wonderful "l'Histoire de Babar, le Petit Eléphant", not that far (I think) from the kind of repertoire you recommended to me back then  the others are Schubert op90/2 and Beethoven op3/1 1st movement (I chose this one actually but it had to be a first movement of an early Beethoven sonata). 


Now, the hard thing is to balance the two instruments, so that the piano doesn't become my first instrument instead of the guitar ! Not that easy (it depends of my mood and of the repertoire I'm working on), since the piano is a seriously attractive instrument for me (it has everything the guitar hasn't, even though there are things the guitar has the piano hasn't too !).
My goal is now to study guitar, composition AND piano (but in a few years not now) extensively at top music schools >_> (happily enough the tuitions fees are very low in continental Europe) even though I perfectly know I will never be a concert pianist, I can still try to learn the piano at the maximum of my abilities. 
And my biggest struggle right now (it's a huge problem for me) is discipline, which is something I've never learnt before, and something extremely difficult for me to integrate !! 
Switching from "never working, sleeping half of the classe time (even when I loved the class)" to "working 12 hours a day every day, every year, your whole life" is absolutely insane. This is very slowly getting better, but having high ambitions and poor discipline is something terrible - and entirely my fault.


By the way, my piano teacher gave Moskowski's op 72 and Hummel's op 125 to explore this summer (I'll probably have to work a lot on many of those pieces the upcoming year), and I was wondering if there was any simillar music in the XXth and XXIth century, apart from the Mikrokosmos ? Maybe do you know some piano music like that ?


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