# Final Round: Sleepwalking Scene: Callas, Nilsson, Varnay, Dimitrova



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Your role in this is two-fold: vote for Callas  of course and tell me why she is so fabulous and you MUST pick your second favorite as she was not the only person to sing this role.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

At the risk of repeating myself, _Una macchia è qui tuttora _is the music that made me realize that there was more to opera than I had first thought. The aria was included on the TIME-LIFE series called *The Story of Great Music *- _The Romantic Era, _which included one disc with the music of Verdi. The singer, of course, was Maria Callas and the aria was from Callas’s 1958 aria album called *Verdi Heroines *in which she gives a veritable lesson in interpretation while following the composers markings to perfection. My love affair with opera and with Callas started the day I heard that record, though at the time I knew nothing of what she was doing, I only knew that it sounded right!

Most of the other singers heard on this contest fall far short of the example she sets on the recording, though one can hear that they have taken her example to heart short of copying everything she did. Of course, even if they had copied everything, they lacked the genius that she had; her ability to color the music to suit her thoughts, her uncanny way with rhythm and tempo; the ability to vary the dynamics as written; her way of marrying words to music.

Of the singers above, I found Nilsson and Dimitrova compete for the runner-up crown, but as Dimitrova eschews the high D-flat, I have to choose Nilsson, who can give us the asked for _pianissimo _on that note, an astonishing feat for a reigning Brunhilde.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I seem to remember discussing Callas's versions of the Macbeth Sleepwalking Scene just a few months ago. Whereas most seemed to prefer the earlier 1952 performance, which we have here, I preferred the 1958 version. I've always felt that De Sabata takes it a mite too fast and Callas is less able to make her points. You could argue that this fast, nervous tempo is perfectly suited to the nightmareish dream Lady Macbeth is living through, but Verdi has left incredibly detailed markings in his score and a slower tempo is not only indicative of Lady Macbeth's dreamlike state, but allows Callas to fully realise all the detail in the score.






So I may prefer Callas's 1958 studio recording, but even at this fast speed, Callas is in a different world of interpretation from any of the others we have heard and, for me, she is so far ahead of the competition that I find it impossibble to award a second choice. If Verrett had made it to the final, then I would have voted for her. As it is, John, I'm sorry I can't vote for any of these runners up. I find them all unsatisfactory.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

No need to say much more about Callas, except that you have to keep her out of mind when listening to others. Of the others, Varnay's harsh, heavy voice comes between me and the music (most music, actually). Like the1952 Callas, it sets out at a fast pace, but it sounds more hurried due to Varnay's lack of vocal agility and the lack of detail in her interpretation. Nilsson also lacks vocal agility; she's best in music with lots of long notes, and here her conductor's slow tempo works in her favor. She's very conscientious in expressing the text, and she takes the high ending (more important than one might think). Dimitrova is creditable but not memorable, and like Varnay uses the lower option at the end. 

In spite of a bright vocal timbre that may be less than ideally suited to the character of Lady M, Nilsson gives what I think is the most fully realized performance of the three.

Does anyone know whether Verdi did any touching up of this scene when he revised the opera? I've never heard _Macbeth_ in its original form


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> No need to say much more about Callas, except that you have to keep her out of mind when listening to others. Of the others, Varnay's harsh, heavy voice comes between me and the music (most music, actually). Like the1952 Callas, it sets out at a fast pace, but it sounds more hurried due to Varnay's lack of vocal agility and the lack of detail in her interpretation. Nilsson also lacks vocal agility; she's best in music with lots of long notes, and here her conductor's slow tempo works in her favor. She's very conscientious in expressing the text, and she takes the high ending (more important than one might think). Dimitrova is creditable but not memorable, and like Varnay uses the lower option at the end.
> 
> In spite of a bright vocal timbre that may be less than ideally suited to the character of Lady M, Nilsson gives what I think is the most fully realized performance of the three.
> 
> Does anyone know whether Verdi did any touching up of this scene when he revised the opera? I've never heard _Macbeth_ in its original form


Varnay does not use the lower option. I hear the D flat.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Does anyone know whether Verdi did any touching up of this scene when he revised the opera? I've never heard _Macbeth_ in its original form


The Sleepwalking Scene is in the original score, exactly as is. _La luce langue_ replaced the much more conventional aria that was at the same point in the original.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Francasacchi said:


> Varnay does not use the lower option. I hear the D flat.


I've listened several times, and each time I hear Varnay distinctly starting the last phrase on the lower Db and singing Db - F - Ab - Db, not F - Ab - high Db - Db. Maybe you're hearing an overtone. Anyone else want to check?


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I've listened several times, and each time I hear Varnay distinctly starting the last phrase on the lower Db and singing Db - F - Ab - Db, not F - Ab - high Db - Db. Maybe you're hearing an overtone. Anyone else want to check?


She takes the lower option.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The Sleepwalking Scene is in the original score, exactly as is. _La luce langue_ replaced the much more conventional aria that was at the same point in the original.


Thanks. There are some wonderful modulations that bring his late works to mind.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Deleted deleted


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

MAS said:


> She takes the lower option.


In 1962, she does. This is from the 1951 performance in Florence when she did not.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Francasacchi said:


> In 1962, she does. This is from the 1951 performance in Florence when she did not.


I'm listening to this one, which is posted above:






She sings Db - F - Ab - Db.


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> I'm listening to this one, which is posted above:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She sings a very soft high D flat. I am familiar with this performance. I own the CD. At this point in her career she sang many pianissimo high notes and did sing that note in this series of performances.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> She sings a very soft high D flat. I am familiar with this performance. I own the CD. At this point in her career she sang many pianissimo high notes and did sing that note in this series of performances.


But where doese she sing this soft, high Db. Certainly not in the closing measures, where she sings Db - F - Ab - Db, not Verdi's F - Ab - Db in alt - lower Db.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Francasacchi said:


> She sings a very soft high D flat. I am familiar with this performance. I own the CD. At this point in her career she sang many pianissimo high notes and did sing that note in this series of performances.


Where is that high Db in the phrase Varnay sings? The phrase has only four notes in it. It's a simple arpeggio, two intervals up and an octave down to finish. In the high option, the high Db is the third note in the phrase. In the low option the third note is Ab. I hear Varnay begin on Db, make the arpeggio to F and then to Ab, and descend a perfect fifth to finish on the lower Db. All four notes are distinctly audible. There's no fifth note available for that high Db. 

Wax in your ears...? 😈


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Where is that high Db in the phrase Varnay sings? The phrase has only four notes in it. It's a simple arpeggio, two intervals up and an octave down to finish. In the high option, the high Db is the third note in the phrase. In the low option the third note is Ab. I hear Varnay begin on Db, make the arpeggio to F and then to Ab, and descend a perfect fifth to finish on the lower Db. All four notes are distinctly audible. There's no fifth note available for that high Db.
> 
> Wax in your ears...? 😈


No. She goes up a fifth. And she does the same thing in a German performance in 1954. And she modifies the approach, as explained by Geoffrey Riggs in his book The Assoluta Voice in Opera, starting lower than what is written.


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> But where doese she sing this soft, high Db. Certainly not in the closing measures, where she sings Db - F - Ab - Db, not Verdi's F - Ab - Db in alt - lower Db.


for clarification, see Geoffrey Riggs explanation of her approach in The Assoluta Voice in Opera


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> for clarification, see Geoffrey Riggs explanation of her approach in The Assoluta Voice in Opera


I don't care what Geoffrey Riggs says in his book. Just try playing the notes on a piano. She starts the arpeggio lower than what's written in the score in order to avoid the top Db. It's a trick many Lady Macbeths use, if they don't have the note.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Please note that MAS, Seattleoperafan, Tsaraslondon and I hear the same thing. Here's the 1962 Strasbourg performance which I just found on YouTube. The sound is wretched, but Varnay seems to be taking the higher option, based on the first two notes of it (F and Ab). What happens after that I can only surmise, but this must be the performance you're thinking of. It happens at 1:58:35.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> she sings the high d flat. keep it up and you will be reported and blocked


I posted the aria and the contest and I don't hear a Db. I hear perhaps an orchestral Db but she goes down.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I seem to remember discussing Callas's versions of the Macbeth Sleepwalking Scene just a few months ago. Whereas most seemed to prefer the earlier 1952 performance, which we have here, I preferred the 1958 version. I've always felt that De Sabata takes it a mite too fast and Callas is less able to make her points. You could argue that this fast, nervous tempo is perfectly suited to the nightmareish dream Lady Macbeth is living through, but Verdi has left incredibly detailed markings in his score and a slower tempo is not only indicative of Lady Macbeth's dreamlike state, but allows Callas to fully realise all the detail in the score.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Over half only voted for Callas. This is a Callas crowd.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Over half only voted for Callas. This is a Callas crowd.


I voted for Callas and Nilsson, not because I think we really need a Colonel Sanders bucket along with our canard à l'orange flambé, but because making you happy is worth the risk of being considered untutored and provincial.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Over half only voted for Callas. This is a Callas crowd.


Perhaps they just didn’t read the instructions?


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Please keep the discussion civil in line with the TC rules. Some posts have been deleted or edited.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Only picked Nilsson. Callas is better in the role overall, but not in this scene. No one, I repeat, *no one* touches Birgit Nilsson's fil di voce.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Only picked Nilsson. Callas is better in the role overall, but not in this scene. No one, I repeat, *no one* touches Birgit Nilsson's fil di voce.


A D-flat! A D-flat! My kingdom for a high D-flat! (Sorry. Wrong play.)


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Only picked Nilsson. Callas is better in the role overall, but not in this scene. No one, I repeat, *no one* touches Birgit Nilsson's fil di voce.


I beg to differ


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I beg to differ


Yes you are correct. I would say Caballe was very well known for her fil di voce, in fact she often overdid them, but to me it is more notable in Nilsson's case in that while Caballe had a big voice Nilsson's voice was much bigger and it was more of a feat when she did them. Nilsson is often not given the credit due her because everyone always points to Caballe and Nilsson's were equally good. To take one of the biggest voices of all time and do the type of fil di voce she did was really an amazing feat!


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

MAS said:


> She takes the lower option.


I distinctly here her taking the higher option...

Edit: I just listened again and if I listen for the lower option that is what I hear, same for the higher option. On second thoughts she most likely took the lower option and the orchestra as well as her overtones can make it sound like the higher option.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Only picked Nilsson. Callas is better in the role overall, but not in this scene. No one, I repeat, *no one* touches Birgit Nilsson's fil di voce.


This suggests that the only important note in the whole sene is the _fil di voce _Db, and that everything before it should be discounted. Nilsson may have the best top note, but Callas has a better legato, a much wider range of tone colour, a more imaginative treatment of the text, and her intonation is better. We obviously have different priorities.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This suggests that the only important note in the whole sene is the _fil di voce _Db, and that everything before it should be discounted. Nilsson may have the best top note, but Callas has a better legato, a much wider range of tone colour, a more imaginative treatment of the text, and her intonation is better. We obviously have different priorities.


My take is that overall Callas has the superior performance, but elements of Nilsson's singing are quite wonderful and if I couldn't have Callas performing live Nilsson would have put on one helluva performance, likely better than most other sopranos, especially in this aria. Others might handle the other coloratura elements of the role better than Nilsson, though.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

"Sylvia Sass is certainly a vivid Lady Macbeth. She presents a woman of depth and determination, developing convincingly through the depression of ''La luce langue'' and the forced gaiety of the Brindisi to her hollow, otherworldly somnambulist's voice. The voice itself has a fearful fascination, its low notes (Callas-to-excess-of-it) now a weird _tour de force_ on their own account. But too much is unsteady, ungainly and uncontrolled."
- Gramophone

"Unsteady, ungainly and uncontrolled..." - Sylvia Sass is Irish?... Jaysus... Ya learn somthin' new every day now, don't ya?









Verdi Macbeth


It is not likely that many libraries...




www.gramophone.co.uk


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> "Sylvia Sass is certainly a vivid Lady Macbeth. She presents a woman of depth and determination, developing convincingly through the depression of ''La luce langue'' and the forced gaiety of the Brindisi to her hollow, otherworldly somnambulist's voice. The voice itself has a fearful fascination, its low notes (Callas-to-excess-of-it) now a weird _tour de force_ on their own account. But too much is unsteady, ungainly and uncontrolled."
> - Gramophone
> 
> "Unsteady, ungainly and uncontrolled..." - Sylvia Sass is Irish?... Jaysus... Ya learn somthin' new every day now, don't ya?
> ...


I've always quite liked Sylvia Sass (Hungarian and still with us), though this is quite late in her career. I'm assuming the above review is by John Steane, who was a regular contributor to Gramophone. It certainly seems like his style.

Sass did quite a good recording of the Sleepwalking Scene for her debut Decca recital, which is somewhat better than this one. By the time of the complete recording the tendency for the voice to become squally on loud high notes has become more pronounced.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've always quite liked Sylvia Sass (Hungarian and still with us), though this is quite late in her career. I'm assuming the above review is by John Steane, who was a regular contributor to Gramophone. It certainly seems like his style.
> 
> Sass did quite a good recording of the Sleepwalking Scene for her debut Decca recital, which is somewhat better than this one. By the time of the complete recording the tendency for the voice to become squally on loud high notes has become more pronounced.


What did he mean by " its low notes (*Callas-to-excess-of-it*) now a weird _tour de force_ on their own account"?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My take is that overall Callas has the superior performance, but elements of Nilsson's singing are quite wonderful and if I couldn't have Callas performing live Nilsson would have put on one helluva performance, likely better than most other sopranos, especially in this aria. Others might handle the other coloratura elements of the role better than Nilsson, though.


Nilsson seems to have loved performing Lady M - who wouldn't? Being bad is such fun - and she was well aware of the difficulties it posed for her (and of Callas's brilliance in it). She remarked that the role required three different sopranos, a dramatic, a lyric, and a coloratura. I'd say she was quite good at the first, pretty good at the second, and not very good at the third, but luckily there aren't "too many little notes" (Nilsson's description of Norma) in Lady M's music to prevent a singer from giving a decent performance. I imagine those other unwieldy Wagnerians, Astrid Varnay and Martha Modl, were quite compelling in the role, even if their recordings do lack vocal finesse.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've always quite liked Sylvia Sass (Hungarian and still with us), though this is quite late in her career. I'm assuming the above review is by John Steane, who was a regular contributor to Gramophone. It certainly seems like his style.
> 
> Sass did quite a good recording of the Sleepwalking Scene for her debut Decca recital, which is somewhat better than this one. By the time of the complete recording the tendency for the voice to become squally on loud high notes has become more pronounced.


I thought that this was just superb - Thank you for posting this - I've listened to the better part of the entire disc and will be finished soon - She would have gotten my second vote without hesitation as I prefer this version far more so than any of the others in either Semi-Final round.

If anyone is interested in the complete label authorized recording, this is the link - 



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kdL9TjvtNRbM9F-DX50YEmcOUdVvGEac4



She has an entire page of recordings available - Perhaps SOF can add them to the warehouse - 



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVqK96X7Q3j8RnI0oB9o-UQ


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Nilsson seems to have loved performing Lady M - who wouldn't? Being bad is such fun - and she was well aware of the difficulties it posed for her (and of Callas's brilliance in it). She remarked that the role required three different sopranos, a dramatic, a lyric, and a coloratura. I'd say she was quite good at the first, pretty good at the second, and not very good at the third, but luckily there aren't "too many little notes" (Nilsson's description of Norma) in Lady M's music to prevent a singer from giving a decent performance. I imagine those other unwieldy Wagnerians, Astrid Varnay and Martha Modl, were quite compelling in the role, even if their recordings do lack vocal finesse.


I think even more so than Norma it was a role many did but Callas had it in her back pocket. They might do 2 but she was the only one that had all three soprano capabilities. The version I saw had a soprano that had 2 out of 3 and I still greatly enjoyed it- but maybe not on record.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Sass did quite a good recording of the Sleepwalking Scene for her debut Decca recital, which is somewhat better than this one. By the time of the complete recording the tendency for the voice to become squally on loud high notes has become more pronounced.


This is tremendous. I've not heard Sass's first recorded work before now. Is the rest of that recital as good, artistically and vocally?


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Woodduck said:


> *This is tremendous. I've not heard Sass's first recorded work before now. Is the rest of that recital as good, artistically and vocally?*


Give it a listen -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kdL9TjvtNRbM9F-DX50YEmcOUdVvGEac4












*Sylvia Sass - Opera’s Sensational New Star - 1977*

Sylvia Sass (soprano)
London Symphony Orchestra, Lamberto Gardelli

List of contents and recording information -









Sylvia Sass - Opera’s Sensational New Star


Sylvia Sass - Opera’s Sensational New Star. Decca: E4756415. Buy download online. Sylvia Sass (soprano) London Symphony Orchestra, Lamberto Gardelli



www.prestomusic.com


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Give it a listen -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of the most beautiful opera singers.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ColdGenius said:


> *One of the most beautiful opera singers.*


Yep... can't get anything past me -


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> Give it a listen -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's an impressive debut recital. Sass is best where she can be most dramatic, and the _Macbeth_ scene is the best example. I do find that her determination to find the drama in every moment can compromise the musical line at times, and even become wearying in a collection like this. It makes one appreciate all the more the subtlety, variety and sheer musicality of Callas, whom Sass clearly wanted to emulate.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This suggests that the only important note in the whole sene is the _fil di voce _Db, and that everything before it should be discounted. Nilsson may have the best top note, but Callas has a better legato, a much wider range of tone colour, a more imaginative treatment of the text, and her intonation is better. We obviously have different priorities.


To suggest that that being the deciding factor meant everything else before was discounted is a little silly. The thinking was really something closer to "A- singing from Nilsson vs solid A singing from Callas...but the fil di voce counts as extra credit that bumps up her score to just above Callas (ex: maybe the difference between a 94 and a 96)".


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> It's an impressive debut recital. Sass is best where she can be most dramatic, and the _Macbeth_ scene is the best example. I do find that her determination to find the drama in every moment can compromise the musical line at times, and even become wearying in a collection like this. It makes one appreciate all the more the subtlety, variety and sheer musicality of Callas, whom Sass clearly wanted to emulate.


She made some good records (there's an interesting Wagner recital on Hungaraton, where she sings one of the best _Senta's Ballad _I've heard) but live she was't so interesting. I heard her three times in the theatre, twice in staged performances and once in concert. Her Norma wasn't good at all (Baltsa's Adalgisa easily stole the show that night) and her Elisabetta was just so so. The best was Turandot in concert, given with the full Afano ending. She had a tendency to sing either very loud or so soft that you could hardly hear her, which was less in evidence in Puccini than in Bellini and Verdi.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> She made some good records (there's an interesting Wagner recital on Hungaraton, where she sings one of the best _Senta's Ballad _I've heard) but live she was't so interesting. I heard her three times in the theatre, twice in staged performances and once in concert. Her Norma wasn't good at all (Baltsa's Adalgisa easily stole the show that night) and her Elisabetta was just so so. The best was Turandot in concert, given with the full Afano ending. She had a tendency to sing either very loud or so soft that you could hardly hear her, which was less in evidence in Puccini than in Bellini and Verdi.


I always found the voice too raucous and the sound could be glassy; her low register was weak, though she could occasionally lean into a low note and make it sound.


----------

