# Kondrashin - Mahler recordings?



## apbsen

Which Mahler recordings by Kirill Kondrashin are "best"?

There's a box set from Melodiya with Symphonies Nos. 1, 3-7, 9, with Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra.

But there are other releases:

-1st with NDR Sinfonieorchester (Angel)

-3rd. (Urania)

-5th. (Denon)

-6th: with SWR Sinfonieorchester (Haenssler Classics)

-7th: with Concertgebouw (Tahra)

Are any of these more recommendable than others?

Thanks for any help!


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## realdealblues

I have the box set from Symphonies 1, 3-7, 9 with the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra as well as the 1st with NDR and the 7th with Concertgebouw on Tahra. I haven't heard the others. Of the ones I've listened too, they are all excellent and worth hearing in my book.


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## joen_cph

I´ve got 3 or 4 of the Melodiya recordings & have enjoyed the 9th in particular - there´s a sort of concise classicism to it, yet it is engaged, overall making it refreshing compared to the emotionally-focused and very tragic renderings by some of the other conductors.


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## Delicious Manager

I am a Kondrashin collector and have all of his Mahler recordings. Kondrashin had a fairly 'Classical' approach to Mahler that often differs from the standard Austro-German tradition we're used to. The Melodiya studio recordings in the boxed set are with either the Moscow PO or Leningrad PO and are highly regarded and well worth hearing.

The NDR Sinfonieorchester recording is especially notable because it was Kondrashin's very last performance and recording - he was dead within a few hours of finishing the concert. He was, at the time of this concert, living in Amsterdam and just about to be appointed the Concertgebouw Orchestra's principal conductor. Klaus Tennstedt was due to conduct Mahler 1 in the Concergebouw with the NDR orchestra, but pulled out at the last minute. As Kondrashin, a well-respected Mahler conductor and guest in Amsterdam, was in town celebrating his 67th birthday, he was asked to conduct the concert in Tennstedt's place. Against doctor's advice, he accepted and conducted the work on no rehearsal. Luckily, Dutch Radio was there to record the event. Kondrashin had a massive heart attack and died in his hotel room just hours after the performance. So, this is a spooky kind of tribute to the great conductor. Even without the back story, it's a fantastic performance, well recorded.

The Urania 3rd is the same Melodiya recording as in the boxed set, as is the Denon 5th. I have the excellent SWR recording of the 6th. Like the 6th in the Melodiya box, it's VERY fast, but incredibly exciting (and is better recorded than the Melodiya).

Best of all is the live 7th with the Concertgebouw Orchestra on Tahra. This is simply one of the best 7ths around and is a 'must-have' for any Mahler collector.


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## apbsen

Thank you for your comments, realdealblues, joen_cph and Delicious Manager.

Tremendously insightful and helpful!

It's very much appreciated that you take your time to share your thoughts and knowledge.


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## Enthusiast

I have (and greatly like) the Svetlanov set and I have been wondering whether to explore Kondrashin's Mahler recordings. Kondrashin is a conductor who I often really enjoy but he can at times leave me a little underwhelmed so I approach his recordings cautiously. Can anyone place Kondrashin's Mahler in comparison with other noted conductors? I'm trying to gauge how "essential" his Mahler is!


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## apbsen

Enthusiast said:


> I have (and greatly like) the Svetlanov set and I have been wondering whether to explore Kondrashin's Mahler recordings. Kondrashin is a conductor who I often really enjoy but he can at times leave me a little underwhelmed so I approach his recordings cautiously. Can anyone place Kondrashin's Mahler in comparison with other noted conductors? I'm trying to gauge how "essential" his Mahler is!


I'd like to know more about this, too -

can anybody enlighten us about Kondrashin's Mahler in comparison with other noted conductors?


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## Pugg

I can't answer that, the strange thing is that we do have quit a few Mahler addicts, and no one ever talks about these recordings.


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## chesapeake bay

There are a few mentions of Kondrashins Mahler in other threads, most notably in the one asking for sparer less romantic sounding Mahler. And that's what you get, an edgier sound, but I think if you like Mahler you will like Kondrashin he definetely knows what he's doing.


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## Manxfeeder

Pugg said:


> I can't answer that, the strange thing is that we do have quit a few Mahler addicts, and no one ever talks about these recordings.


That bothers me also. I really like his recording of the 3rd, and I've wondered if my enthusiasm is misguided.


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## Pugg

Manxfeeder said:


> That bothers me also. I really like his recording of the 3rd, and I've wondered if my enthusiasm is misguided.


I wouldn't loose any sleep over it if I where you, our fellow members are very outspoken , as that's the right they have is the same right to like what you want :tiphat:


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## techniquest

I heard Svetlanov's 2nd and 3rd and really couldn't get along with them. I think it's mostly about the highly spotlighted vibrato trumpet - definitely puts me off. I haven't heard Kondrashin Mahler, and wonder if the trumpet is similarly highlighted.


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## chesapeake bay

techniquest said:


> I heard Svetlanov's 2nd and 3rd and really couldn't get along with them. I think it's mostly about the highly spotlighted vibrato trumpet - definitely puts me off. I haven't heard Kondrashin Mahler, and wonder if the trumpet is similarly highlighted.


nope its trumpet with a straight mute, no vibrato


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

Manxfeeder said:


> That bothers me also. I really like his recording of the 3rd, and I've wondered if my enthusiasm is misguided.


Not misguided at all. It's a very fine recording of the 3rd and - in fact - all Kondrashin's Mahler recordings are worth tracking down. Look, in particular, for his 1st with the NDR Symphony Orchestra, and his amazing 7th with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw - if they're still available. Both are favourites of mine.


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## Enthusiast

techniquest said:


> I heard Svetlanov's 2nd and 3rd and really couldn't get along with them. I think it's mostly about the highly spotlighted vibrato trumpet - definitely puts me off. I haven't heard Kondrashin Mahler, and wonder if the trumpet is similarly highlighted.


Fair enough. I might have felt the same way once but now, that all orchestras seem to aim for the same sound and there is so little variation between the orchestral sound that is preferred in different nations, I treasure recordings of good orchestras with a distinctively Russian or French or even British or German/Austrian sound. I have searched widely from a remembered recording (EMI, I think) of Mravinsky doing Sibelius 7, with a wonderfully warbling trombone. It was coupled with Shostakovich 6 I think.


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## Larkenfield

Additional background on Kondrashin and Mahler that I found of great interest, from the Russian Melodiya website:

“He was the first Soviet conductor to realize a full concert cycle of symphonies by Mahler (except the Eighth) and Shostakovich. Kondrashin not only resumed the tradition of “Russian Mahleriana” that had been interrupted by the Soviet ideologists of music for three decades, - he actually rediscovered the world of Mahler’s music for the domestic audience, presenting its bright, independent and still so topical renditions. Kondrashin’s initiative was taken up by other conductors of this country, but no one ventured integral coverage of Mahler’s oeuvre.” 

Symphony 1, 5, and 9 are available at Melodiya. I find the Russians offering less sentimental, neuroticized, and more classically straightforward presentations of the symphonies, rather than what Bernstein was doing with the music after he left New York and moved to Europe. His performances with the New York Philharmonic were far less self-indulgent and exaggerated, in my estimation. I very much like the Russian slant on these great symphonies as a welcome change of pace. 

The Russians seem to know how to bring out Mahler’s orchestral colors and textures, focusing more on that than turning him into an emotional basket case. People sometimes forget how resilient he was after some grievous personal losses. He always bounced back. And I think he should be played that way. After his 9th Symphony was supposedly the end and his farewell to the world, he came back with the 10th and would have completed it if time hadn’t run out.


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## mbhaub

Kondrashin's three recordings of the 7th are wonderful, the Concertgebouw especially so. He's one of the few conductors that figured out the last movement - it has to move! Yes, that means ignoring Mahler's directions. It works. In general I like the Kondrashin recordings and it's no surprise he does well with them. He also was one of the best interpreters of Shostakovich and the influence of Mahler on him is clear. Kondrashin's 4th offers a totally unique chance to hear the last movement sung in Russian. The conductor died way too early. Younger listeners are unfamiliar with him unfortunately. So many of his all-too-few recordings are considered "definitive". I was lucky to hear him live once, at the Hollywood Bowl some 40 years ago. 

Svetlanov: I first tried his Mahler on a Seraphim LP of the 9th. Then I bought a few of the cd releases - 2, 5, 7 and that was enough. Svetlanov, good as he was with some music, just wasn't the right fit for Mahler, and it's no coincidence that he was entirely successful with Shostakovich. Tchaikovsky, Glazunov...the whole Russian school was his forte.


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## Zhdanov




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## Merl

I have the Melodiya set and I really like it. There's no hanging about in these performances. They shift! They're brisk, boisterous but exciting readings. The 6th is very quick. Not recommended as a first 'library' set but fascinating listening. I never used to like Kondrashin's 1st but now it's in my top ten. Great stuff.


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## Totenfeier

I've done some Youtubing on this, so, impressions:

Symphonies 1-3: Mildly O.K. It is most definitely stripped-down, classical, non-lush Mahler. Two or three steps behind the best. I did like the coda of 3, though: majestic. Reminded me very much of Levine.

Symphony 4: I really liked this interpretation until he bollixed up the adagio by rushing the climax. The singer wasn't right, either, and she seemed to be singing in Russian (same with #2 & #3)!

Symphony 5: Like walking out of your familiar front door in the morning and stepping out onto the surface of Europa. It sounded like a completely different piece. I thought it was utterly fascinating.

Symphony 6: "Gee, I don't know, officer; it all happened so fast!"

Other reports to come as listening warrants.


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## exAugsburger

I am just listening 3rd on Spotify and I have to share my experiences: they are so vivid. I just wanted to get information when it was recorded and I popped into this Forum and good to see some conversation and some other people with the same interest

One of my favourite Mahler's symphony. It is nothing I previously heard. If someone ask for the best then I would recommend late Abbado's recording w/Luzern Festival (I guess 3rd is only on DVD). That is spiritual.

Kondrashin's recording is very fresh: "we are the guy who just won the Great War" with full self-confidence. I feel myself in a good Soviet (not Russsian, I know the difference as I am Hungarian already lived in Soviet era) movie. It is nothing about a Central European feeling.

I like it, although I would not call authentic Mahlerish.


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