# Unjustly Overshadowed Works



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

In your view or others, which works are unjustly overshadowed by more inferior popular works either by the same composer or another composer? This is a good opportunity to dig out some hidden gems.

Jephtha and Theodora by Handel are exquisite, but overshadowed by Messiah, which the composer felt was unjust himself.

Here is my personal list:

I feel personally Grieg’s Lyric Pieces for piano are unjustly neglected, while his Piano Concerto is a warhorse, which is less original or inspired in my view.

Ligeti’s string quartets are overshadowed by his pieces for the 2001 Space Odyssey soundtrack.

Beethoven’s Les Adieux gets overshadowed by Moonlight, Appassionata, etc., but I think is just as good, and way more meaningful to me. 

Brahms’ Clarinet Quintet doesn’t get as much recognition as his symphonies or concertos.

Shostakovich’s last quartet may be his best but is not anywhere recognized as his more popular ones

Verdi’s Otello is a real powerhouse, while Rigoletto and others get more performances.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Bach St. John Passion is overshadowed by Mass in B Minor and St. Matthew Passion.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Ravel's L'enfant et les sortilèges is overshadowed by Bolero. Well, just about any of Ravel's works are overshadowed by Bolero, followed by the Pavane.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Are there whole composers who might qualify?

One of my favorite authors, John O'Hara, is hardly read much today. He is a heck of a good writer. But he had the bad luck to be writing at the same time as that mountain who put all in his shadow, Hemingway.

So who, perhaps, was quite good, but because of the greatness around, is not as known today, that I might be listening to.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Beethoven's Les Adieux gets overshadowed by Moonlight, Appassionata, etc., but I think is just as good, and way more meaningful to me.


Les Adieux is perhaps my favorite Beethoven sonata, so agreed on this point.


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## josquindesprez (Aug 20, 2017)

Bach's third sonata for violin and harpsichord, especially the allegro ma non tanto movement, is easily as beautiful as his other works, yet hardly gets a mention. And actually when I hear it my first thought goes to the Albinoni Adagio in g, though I'd place the Bach right beside it.

Tallis's Felix Namque (either version) is excellent, and quite a bit unlike the other harpsichord music I've heard from that time, but it doesn't seem to get much mention.

And my namesake's Qui Habitat is a marvelous example of Renaissance polyphony, but doesn't seem to get discussed or recorded much.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Otto Luening: Sonata for Piano In memoriam Ferruccio Busoni (1966)





Otto Luening - Legend, for Oboe and Strings


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Luigi Dallapiccola - Piccolo concerto per Muriel Couvreux

Check out the third movement at 17:23


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> Ravel's L'enfant et les sortilèges is overshadowed by Bolero. Well, just about any of Ravel's works are overshadowed by Bolero, followed by the Pavane.






Maurice Ravel - Le tombeau de Couperin: Prélude

Was having a problem finding a good piano version so there is this one.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

The entire genre of art song.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Josef Suk's very Mahlerian "Asreal" symphony, composed from similar matieral as Mahler's 9th with a death motif ongoing throughout. 

I would also put in a vote for Darius Milhaud's Percussion Concerto Op. 109.

As to the original listing, I don't think any of that music is overshadowed by anything else. To say a Beethoven piano sonata (any of them) or a Brahms clarinet piece is overshadowed ... I can't believe that. How many complete sets are there in recordings? Everyone knows most of that music and much of it is played in concert and recorded often. Perhaps not the Ligeti, I agree, but his is niche music.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Verdi's Otello is a real powerhouse, while Rigoletto and others get more performances.


I don't think Otello is an unjustly overshadowed work, certainly not in comparison with, say, Simon Boccanegra.

That said, the list of such works is sure to be exhaustive, certainly in regards to works of Russian, Scandinavian, English composers: Symphonies of Myaskovsky, Glazunov, Bax, Melartin, operas of Rimsky-Korsakov, Merikanto, Dargomyzhsky, Tchaikovsky, ballets of Delibes, Khachaturian, you name it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There are several works that I promote whenever I can. In a world where people still love the symphonies of Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak and such, how these three are ignored and are unperformed baffles me. If you don't know them, you will not be disappointed.

1) Ernest Bloch symphony in C# minor 
2) Mily Balakirev - Symphony no. 1
3) Arthur Lemba - symphony


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

larold said:


> Josef Suk's very Mahlerian "Asreal" symphony, composed from similar matieral as Mahler's 9th with a death motif ongoing throughout.


That reminds me that the "Asreal" won a miscellaneous collections game I was running a few weeks ago. So perhaps its neglect is declining.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Carlos Chavez's most well know piece is easily his second symphony, "Sinfonia India". While a great deal of his other work is in a much more modernist vein, they are still deserving of much more attention than they get. In addition, much of Villa-Lobos' oeuvre is ignored in favor of a few of the Bachianas Brasileiras and Choros.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Piano sonatas always seem to overshadow violin sonatas — or cello, or viola, or flute, or banjo sonatas. Why? The latter usually include piano as well, but have even more timbres to present.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

I consider Rachmaninov's 4th piano concerto to be the greatest he wrote - with the 3rd coming really close, of course. I also think that the 1917 revision of the 1st concerto is much more interesting than the 2nd concerto... It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to like the 4th one the least! It's an intense and very moving work, written by a composer in an attempt to explore new musical styles of the turbulent era, and he managed to create a work of stunning vitality, with really dark undertones. It ends so wildly and abruptly, as if an untimely death strikes and that's it.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Something else I think is worth mentioning are Tchaikovsky's orchestral suites. These are really interesting pieces where Tchaikovsky explores some different areas from some of his more famous works, and they are really worth listening to.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> There are several works that I promote whenever I can. In a world where people still love the symphonies of Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak and such, how these three are ignored and are unperformed baffles me. If you don't know them, you will not be disappointed.
> 
> 1) Ernest Bloch symphony in C# minor
> 2) Mily Balakirev - Symphony no. 1
> 3) Arthur Lemba - symphony


I know the first two ones. It would be interesting to discover the Lemba's.


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## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

Sir William Walton's fiery and youthful Symphony No. 1 overshadows his fine Symphony No. 2 from his maturity:


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There's one recording - on Chandos with, who else, Neeme Jarvi. Like Bloch, it's also in C sharp minor. Wonderful music.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

R3PL4Y said:


> Carlos Chavez's most well know piece is easily his second symphony, "Sinfonia India". While a great deal of his other work is in a much more modernist vein, they are still deserving of much more attention than they get. In addition, much of Villa-Lobos' oeuvre is ignored in favor of a few of the Bachianas Brasileiras and Choros.


Completely agree about Villa-Lobos, I recently discovered his string quartets. There are 17 each with a distinctive style. Well worth exploring.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Phil loves classical said:


> In your view or others, which works are unjustly overshadowed by more inferior popular works either by the same composer or another composer? This is a good opportunity to dig out some hidden gems.
> 
> Jephtha and Theodora by Handel are exquisite, but overshadowed by Messiah, which the composer felt was unjust himself.
> 
> ...


You list great music. I'm not sure any of it is overshadowed for anyone who gets past the early stages of classical music appreciation, but you are no doubt right that in each case there are other works of the composer that are more frequently performed. So, you made a good list. In another recent thread we've been discussing Jacques Ibert as an unduly neglected composer, beyond his most famous works, Escales and the Divertissement. So I'll add his name to this thread.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Weston said:


> Piano sonatas always seem to overshadow violin sonatas - or cello, or viola, or flute, or banjo sonatas. Why? The latter usually include piano as well, but have even more timbres to present.


And the same really applies to the entire genre of piano chamber music. "Piano music" very often refers to just solo piano plus piano concertos with a curious exclusion of piano chamber, while "chamber music" often exclusively focuses on string quartets, yet I personally find chamber ensembles with piano to be the most interesting of all.

I suspect it has to do with solo piano and concertos being the most commonly seen in concerts, and string quartets being the most common performing groups in chamber music.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

You wait a very long time to hear any of Dvorak's late symphonic poems in a concert. But they're just as worthy as any of his symphonies in my view.
Graeme


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Debussy's Clair de Lune during an eclipse.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> There are several works that I promote whenever I can. In a world where people still love the symphonies of Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak and such, how these three are ignored and are unperformed baffles me. If you don't know them, you will not be disappointed.
> 
> 1) Ernest Bloch symphony in C# minor
> 2) Mily Balakirev - Symphony no. 1
> 3) Arthur Lemba - symphony


Sincere thanks for listing the Lemba symphony - had no knowledge of this composer.It strikes me as being cut from the same musical cloth as Elgar - or am I missing something?

It is available at


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> In your view or others, which works are unjustly overshadowed by more inferior popular works either by the same composer or another composer? This is a good opportunity to dig out some hidden gems.
> 
> Jephtha and Theodora by Handel are exquisite, but overshadowed by Messiah, which the composer felt was unjust himself.
> 
> ...


Of course, once a thread is in the members' domain it must take on a life of its own but I - ever pedantic - will try to stick with what I read from your examples as your intention. Many of the examples you give are pretty well known even if they are not as popular as the boulders they may be in the shadow of.

Jeptha and (especially) Theodora are beautiful works although not from quite the same genre as Messiah (they are dramatic works while Messiah is a "straight" oratorio). I love all three but do not find it hard to see why Messiah is so incredibly popular. It is surely the equal of Theodora but a lot more rousing.

Something similar applies to many of your other examples. So, I love those popular Beethoven sonatas but only as much as many others (including Les Adieux) but they do have movements that have stronger earworm qualities. Many of your examples (Grieg, Ligeti, Brahms) compare orchestral (choral with Ligeti) works with chamber works and I think this merely reflects a general preference among those who like a little classical music but do not go deeply into it. You could have chosen many Beethoven symphonies and chosen almost any of his chamber works as overshadowed by them.

The case of Shostakovich is an interesting one. Many of his - often sparser and more prickly - late masterpieces are indeed neglected in comparison with the best of his earlier but mature work. The two violin concertos provide another example as do many of the symphonies compared with 14, which is surely one of his greatest works. I do not know why this is but it is probably similar to the comparison between the rousing Messiah versus the beautiful and moving and (perhaps) more profound Theodora.

I am not sure of Otello versus Rigoletto but do note that this is another example of a late work being overshadowed in popularity by an middle period one.

As for other examples, it is an unusual one but aren't Mendelssohn's precocious very early works more interesting in many ways than his mature work? There are probably other examples, as well, from those who I feel as in the second rank of composers where their early work is more interesting than much of their mature work.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Grieg's _Symphony in C-minor_ is certainly overshadowed by his other works. It's hardly ever performed or thought about, which is unfortunate, since it's an excellent Romantic symphony, better than those of his teacher, Niels Gade, and nearly as fine as the _Symphony #1 in D_ by his contemporary and countryman Johan Svendsen. The neglect of Grieg's work is partly his own doing, since hearing Svendsen's symphony prompted him to withdraw his own and write on the manuscript "Must never be performed." Being an early work, it doesn't sound very much like Grieg except in places - no obvious national flavor or poignant chromaticism - but it's still fresh and engaging. The Svendsen is itself unfortunately neglected, but not overshadowed by his other works, which are even less well known.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Brahms Opus 118, no 2. I think it gets lost in the light of the other late Brahms piano works, but it's a true gem. That it does not require the technical virtuosity of some of the later works does not detract from its beauty. The close canon in the middle section....sublime.


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## SCSL (Apr 7, 2018)

Dvorak's Symphony No. 7 is overshadowed by the widely popular No. 9.

Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto in D Minor is overshadowed by his canon Concerto in E Minor.


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

Franz Schmidt's Second Symphony is in my top five favourite pieces but the fourth is the one that most people know. The second is a unique piece and never fails to stimulate, which is what I desire most of all from a piece of music. Ravel was mentioned earlier and I adore 'Ma mère l'Oye' (so clever) but again, it is Bolero that overshadows it. Finally, how about Richard Strauss and 'An Alpine Symphony', surely one of the most uplifting pieces ever written but totally overshadowed by the operas and perhaps the other tone poems.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Room2201974 said:


> Brahms Opus 118, no 2. I think it gets lost in the light of the other late Brahms piano works, but it's a true gem. That it does not require the technical virtuosity of some of the later works does not detract from its beauty. The close canon in the middle section....sublime.


I suspect that if you were to ask around you might discover that this piece is a favorite of many. Is there a more sustained outpouring of pure melodic beauty in Brahms? Radu Lupu plays it just the way I want to hear it:


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Grieg's _Symphony in C-minor_ is certainly overshadowed by his other works. It's hardly ever performed or thought about, which is unfortunate, since it's an excellent Romantic symphony, better than those of his teacher, Niels Gade, and nearly as fine as the _Symphony #1 in D_ by his contemporary and countryman Johan Svendsen. The neglect of Grieg's work is partly his own doing, since hearing Svendsen's symphony prompted him to withdraw his own and write on the manuscript "Must never be performed." Being an early work, it doesn't sound very much like Grieg except in places - no obvious national flavor or poignant chromaticism - but it's still fresh and engaging. The Svendsen is itself unfortunately neglected, but not overshadowed by his other works, which are even less well known.


Thanks especially for the mention of the Svendsen #1. I was unfamiliar with it. Wonderful Brahmsian solemn opening of the Adagio. I think it is better than the Grieg -at least I like it better.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DaveM said:


> Thanks especially for the mention of the Svendsen #1. I was unfamiliar with it. Wonderful Brahmsian solemn opening of the Adagio. I think it is better than the Grieg -at least I like it better.


Grieg thought so too!


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Handel's Dixit Dominus is probably overshadowed by his more popular works. Especially the last part: Gloria Patri, how is that not one of the greatest compositions, well, ever? (starts at 3:30)


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Room2201974 said:


> Brahms Opus 118, no 2. I think it gets lost in the light of the other late Brahms piano works, but it's a true gem. That it does not require the technical virtuosity of some of the later works does not detract from its beauty. The close canon in the middle section....sublime.


Just wanted to point out that the Intermezzo, op. 118/2 is by far his most frequently recorded intermezzo. Far from being lost, it's at the top of the mountain.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

I stand corrected, but am hugely satisfied to get in a plug for one of my all time favorite works.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Glière - Symphony No. 3 Ilya Murometz written from 1908 to 1911 and dedicated to Glazunov. The premier took place in Moscow in 1912 One wonders how much Gliere was influenced (if at all) by Stravinsky's Firebird of 1910 or vice versa. The Gliere work is also similar in style to Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy that also tends to overshadow the former in terms of the number of performances and recordings.

The cost of performing/recording the Gliere must be one of the most daunting factors due to the size of the orchestra required and the length of the work

True, the frequent repetition of the principal theme can be a little off-putting on first acquaintance but IMHO the work is utterly worth repeat hearing

Here is the Downes recording (an overshadowed conductor):


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I agree about Gliere's 3rd Symphony am puzzled with its lack of fame. Tchaikovsky works are all over the place, but Gliere's symphony is just a dot on the canvas.


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## Gottfried (Feb 16, 2018)

The premise of this thread is welcome and interesting: not only _which_ works are overshadowed, but, tacitly, as some have suggested, _why_ they are overshadowed.

Indeed, we might note the whole field of aesthetic appreciation as a shifting movement of light and shadow, where what lays in obscurity for some period of time is suddenly highlighted at another. Very likely, there will be more durable and persistent historical reasons as to where the light falls, while in other cases the reasons will be more specific to circumstance. After all, what is foregrounded, and what marginalised, will bring into play most of the salient factors involved in aesthetic appreciation: technical concerns, musicological and popular fashions, historical reactions, the apparently readier appeal of orchestral in contrast to chamber works. A decisive problem over the past hundred years is the emergence in the arts of an esotericism of expertise whereby initiates of 'modern' art, architecture, music and the like develop a sensibility quite remote from those who do not participate in particular discourses. These tendencies give rise to cross currents of marginalisation. The discourse of initiates will tend to thrust, say, Rachmaninov's piano concertos, or Rubbra's symphonies, into the shadows as works of obsolete neo-romanticism, while a more popular taste might find the string quartets of Carter more or less incomprehensible. Yet, such cross currents, do not operate in neat complementarity. Messiaen's quartet (and Stockhausen's helicopters) might be recognised by both groups, but for different reasons.

I concur, too, with much of the opening list, and some of the suggestions and reasoning in other posts.

Ligeti's SQs, along with many of his later (and tellingly, more conventionally named) works, strike me as more intrinsically interesting, and in many ways more impressive, than the earlier innovations with which he made his name. No doubt, _atmospheres, _is a striking piece, exploring a novel approach to composition and orchestration, but how many listenings does it merit? SQ2, the Requiem, the Piano and Violin concertos and the Etudes are surely among his best works.

Similarly, I have long thought Shostakovich's SQ15 is his best. I would be happy to nominate it for a shortish list of the C20th's most remarkable works.

Recently, I have been making a more extensive exploration of Mozart's chamber works, and have discovered his (adult) violin sonatas. Both individually, and as a group, these later sonatas most emphatically seem to me an example of inexplicable overshadowing.

Writing of Mozart's chamber works: I yet to understand why K515 and K516 so much overshadows K593.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I've heard of every overshadowed work here and heard most in performance and agree even the greatest composers have hidden gems.

Beethoven's *Name-Day or Namesfeier overture* is overshadowed by almost all his others and every other famous overture.

Mozart's music for *Thomas King of Egypt *is virtually unknown.

Mendelssohn's *Double Concerto for Violin and Piano* gets no air time on radio or performance. The same is true for his *Piano Sonata No. 1 Op. 6*.

A great work for cello virtually unknown is Offenbach's *Concerto-Rondo, Cello Concerto or "Military" Cello Concerto*; it goes by all three names in various disguises.

The last time you programmed Debussy was it the delightful ballet *Jeux*?

Perhaps the greatest mystery to me is why Rossini's *Messe di Gloria* has stayed so long in the shadow of his operas and even the Petite Messe Sollenelle.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I wonder, when unjustly neglected or overshadowed works get discussed, the extent to which posters are really saying that their own subjective personal favourites are objectively (is there such a thing?) "greater" than the work that seems to overshadow them? I feel (I may be deluding myself) that there is a difference between a work that I love but does not enjoy universal approval and a work that I really do feel is being neglected unjustly ... and that I can sometimes feel the difference. 

An example might be Dvorak's Piano Concerto. It has long been one of my favourite Romantic piano concertos but I know it is flawed and not "as great" as many of the concertos that I personally prefer it to.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

People thinking of the music of Prokofiev generally do not dwell on his two excellent string quartets. The second especially appeals to me because of its tincture of orientalism, most notable in the marvelous _Adagio_. Prokofiev was relocated to Naltchik, a small town in the Caucasus, the capital of the province of Kabarda, as the Nazis advanced into Russia. While a resident there, he was allegedly asked by the local powers to incorporate Kabardan themes or at least flavor into some of his compositions. The result was the No. 2 quartet: "It seemed to me that the association of original oriental folklore, absolutely new, with the most classic of classical forms such as the string quartet, could yield interesting and unexpected results." wrote P. And so it did.


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## Gottfried (Feb 16, 2018)

Prokofiev's string quartets are a delight, and their charm is, as SM suggests, often overlooked. Admittedly, though, I was at first averse to them in as much as they did not accord with what I had come to enjoy in the string quartets of other composers. They seemed to me then 'slippery'. Now, however, I would argue that just this quality shows them as distinctive.

I agree, too, with Enthusiast that we need to distinguish between those relatively ignored works that we enjoy, such as, say, (for me) Rubbra's symphonies, and those we believe ought to be more generally celebrated, such as the Prokofiev string quartets mentioned above.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Enthusiast wrote:
"I wonder, when unjustly neglected or overshadowed works get discussed, the extent to which posters are really saying that their own subjective personal favourites are objectively (is there such a thing?) "greater" than the work that seems to overshadow them?"

Though there may be much justification for this statement within the wider community. one would hope that most of us on this thread have sufficient breadth of exposure to a wide range of classical music that objectivity prevails over personal tastes.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

An extreme case of a composer's best work being overshadowed may be the chamber music of Vincent D'Indy. Who plays it or even talks about it? His "French Mountain Air" thing is very nice but is all many will have heard of, along with (possibly) a few other sprawling orchestral works. But I discovered a couple of his string quartets a little while ago and was stunned. They struck me as among the best obscure music I'd ever heard - inspired, well-constructed, constantly engaging - and worthy of a prominent position in the chamber music repertoire. 

Another case of really interesting music is the moody, rather dark piano music of Louis Vierne, which languishes in obscurity while organists often program his organ symphonies. 

I find that the early 20th century was an interesting time in French music, containing many buried treasures. While Debussy, Ravel, Satie, and Poulenc grab most of the attention, composers like D'Indy, Chausson, Caplet, Roussel, Ropartz, Dukas, Magnard, Koechlin, Tournemire, Vierne, Schmitt, and Roger-Ducasse left a large body of music of real quality that synthesizes variously the influences of Wagner and German Romanticism, Faure, Impressionism, and, in chamber music, Classical formal disciplines. I theorize that much of it, like a lot of excellent but not necessarily innovative music composed during the "Modernist" period, is overshadowed simply because it falls outside the "mainstream" of music history. Thank goodness for recordings!


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

More examples of "overshadowed" works might surely include many of the compositions of Villa-Lobos. Not that there is anything wrong with the marvelous Bachianas Brasileiras, but the number 5 is performed and played fairly regularly, whereas the rest of the piece is largely ignored.

Ditto his piano compositions like the Suite Floral Op 97 and Carnaval das Criancas, just to name a couple. Tonight, I intend to listen to the two piano concertos performed by the wonderful Christina Ortiz. Nothing subjective about praising these works!


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

You have done it again Woodduck! I'd vote for Chausson and D'Indy any time. Alas, I'm not familiar with most of the others you mention


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

aussiebushman said:


> You have done it again Woodduck! I'd vote for Chausson and D'Indy any time. Alas, I'm not familiar with most of the others you mention


You have many wonderful discoveries ahead. :tiphat:


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

aussiebushman said:


> Enthusiast wrote:
> "I wonder, when unjustly neglected or overshadowed works get discussed, the extent to which posters are really saying that their own subjective personal favourites are objectively (is there such a thing?) "greater" than the work that seems to overshadow them?"
> 
> Though there may be much justification for this statement within the wider community. one would hope that most of us on this thread have sufficient breadth of exposure to a wide range of classical music that objectivity prevails over personal tastes.


On this thread you are probably right but it is a common trend and this thread is young. There is lots of time for it to start here, too.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Are these overshadowed? Georges Bizet- Variations Chromatiques (De Concert). Glenn Gould did quite a nice job with them and had a minimum of mouth noises.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> I suspect that if you were to ask around you might discover that this piece is a favorite of many. Is there a more sustained outpouring of pure melodic beauty in Brahms? Radu Lupu plays it just the way I want to hear it:


Great stuff. I had not heard these Brahms pieces.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

When I mentioned "the two" piano concertos of Villa-Lobos, it referred to the only two I could find at the time. Happy to add that the second CD in the set, comprising the 3rd, 4th and 5th concertos turned up. having been put into the wrong case.

What a joy these works are - especially with Ortiz. I seriously commend them to anyone who has not heard them - they definitely belong in the "overshadowed" category

Here is the 4th - with Ortiz:


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## id0ntmatter (May 8, 2018)

There is a *TON* and I mean A FRIGGIN CRAPTON of music that is neglected that ought to be studied more. Part of the reason I want to be a famous pianist is so I can save these guys from scrutiny. Stefano Gollineli, Anton Rubinstein, Charles Czerny, the Scharwenka bros, Cecile Chaminade, Alessandro Longo and Giuesspe Martucci are just a few composers I feel don't get the due credit they deserve.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)




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## Konsgaard (Oct 24, 2014)

> Bach St. John Passion is overshadowed by Mass in B Minor and St. Matthew Passion.


So much agree!!!


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

All of Berlioz's oeuvre after Phantastique. At least for me anyway - took me years to get round to listening beyond Phantastique...and now I love several pieces by him. Albeit not quite as much as Phantastique.


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## Gottfried (Feb 16, 2018)

_Les nuits d'été, _for example. Gorgeous, and most definitely worthy of more sunlight (or evening illumination).

Having enjoyed the measured and lucid perceptiveness of Larkenfield on another classical music forum, I am delighted to once again have the pleasure.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Vaughan Williams Concerto for two pianos isn't mentioned around these parts. Overshadowed by a number of his other works.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DuaS83931Qxs&ved=0ahUKEwi47tXik_vaAhXl7YMKHUcyAE0Qt9IBCEYwBQ&usg=AOvVaw3n0IjhYkBNzQo0ye_R1Ufw


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Glad to see Suk's wonderful but harrowing Asrael Symphony being mentioned here, albeit way back in November! It is probably that composer's best-known work, the Scherzo And the Serenade for Strings notwithstanding. But putting the boot on the other foot, Asrael itself overshadows debatably even finer works from Suk, notably what I see as his masterpiece, A Summer Tale.


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## Gottfried (Feb 16, 2018)

Haydn's earlier symphonies and string quartets. Common presentations of Haydn rarely do him justice. 

For the most part, emphasis is given to the London symphonies, Opus 76, the Creation and the Nelson Mass. Were this emphasis not often to the exclusion of much that preceded these works I would have no quibbles. However, Opus 33, Opus 20, and Opus 50 contain quartets just as wonderful as those in Opus 76. Similarly, some of his piano trios are delightful – though, admittedly, the Gypsy trio is regularly, and deservedly, played on radio.

Regarding the symphonies: for all that Haydn was, I gather, quite an urbane individual, his rustic confinement enabled him to compose in what seems to me a more spontaneous and exploratory way. The commissioned, more publicly overt, phase of his compositional activity did, in my view, more favours to his vocal works: the later masses and the oratorios – than to his symphonic undertaking. Assuredly, his London symphonies were excellent – the marvel of Haydn is the consistency of excellence throughout such a vast oeuvre – but Mozart seemed to me better suited to that style of composition, and while I think Haydn's immense overall symphonic achievement surpasses that of Mozart, I would contend that Mozart's last four shade any of Haydn's last twelve.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Gottfried said:


> Haydn's earlier symphonies and string quartets. Common presentations of Haydn rarely do him justice.
> 
> For the most part, emphasis is given to the London symphonies, Opus 76, the Creation and the Nelson Mass. Were this emphasis not often to the exclusion of much that preceded these works I would have no quibbles. However, Opus 33, Opus 20, and Opus 50 contain quartets just as wonderful as those in Opus 76. Similarly, some of his piano trios are delightful - though, admittedly, the Gypsy trio is regularly, and deservedly, played on radio.
> 
> Regarding the symphonies: for all that Haydn was, I gather, quite an urbane individual, his rustic confinement enabled him to compose in what seems to me a more spontaneous and exploratory way. The commissioned, more publicly overt, phase of his compositional activity did, in my view, more favours to his vocal works: the later masses and the oratorios - than to his symphonic undertaking. Assuredly, his London symphonies were excellent - the marvel of Haydn is the consistency of excellence throughout such a vast oeuvre - but Mozart seemed to me better suited to that style of composition, and while I think Haydn's immense overall symphonic achievement surpasses that of Mozart, I would contend that Mozart's last four shade any of Haydn's last twelve.


thanks for this. Could You say give a favourite quartet from Opus 33, Opus 20, and Opus 50?


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## Gottfried (Feb 16, 2018)

Opus 20 – 2,4 & 5
Opus 33 – 1, 3 & 5 (or all six!)
Opus 50 – 4,5 & 6


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Many years ago I heard a symphony in a radio broadcast and could not accurately catch the name of the composer (probably due to the Australian accent of the programme host). Finally I have identified the composer as Kaljo Raid (1921-2005)

This composer seems to belong in the "overshadowed" category. Here is one highly recommended recording: 




I welcome comment from others


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Brahms wrote many great sets of variations for the piano. However, they are unjustly overshadowed by the Handel Variations.

The Variations on an Original Theme, Op. 21 No. 1 (aka _"Philosopher" Variations_) is a beautiful piece. It looked far ahead to the idyllic and pastoral mood of the second symphony and the violin concerto, which Brahms would compose 20 years later.

The coda of the final variation sound like the door of heaven is opening.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

4'44", the extended mix....................


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## leonsm (Jan 15, 2011)

Symphonies no. 3 by Villa-Lobos, Enescu and Pärt are overshadowed works in these composers oeuvre.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Unjustly overshadowed works?
- Definitely *Haydn's piano concertos beyond the three* that stars like Emmanuel Ax and Leif Ove Andsnes recorded.
- Also *Haydn's violin concertos* - Try and hear Simon Standage playing it with Trevor Pinnock on Archiv/DGG.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Mozart's solo piano works are dominated by the Sonatas, even though I think the 4 Fantasies, 3 Rondos, and Adagio in Bm are generally superior (the last two Fantasies are sublime). 

Haydn's Piano Trios are overshadowed by his String Quartets. I feel they're just as good, and often better. 

Brahms's chamber music seems unjustly overshadowed in general by his orchestral output. I find his chamber works the pinnacle of his artistry. 

Handel wrote dozens of great oratorios and operas that are completely overshadowed by Messiah. That's a travesty less because Messiah isn't great (it is), but more because the others are just as great. 

Stravinsky's neo-classical period is generally overshadowed by his early work. I've come to prefer his neo-classical work. 

I think many of Schumann's late works are unjustly maligned compared to his early masterpieces. I think a lot of it's quite interesting even when it isn't always wholly successful. The Violin Concerto is one example, but I especially love many of the late song cycles. I also rather like two choral works he did (Das Paradies und die Peri and Scenes from Goethe's Faust) that don't get any attention. 

Depending on who you ask, Verdi's Don Carlos is perhaps overshadowed by Otello, Aida, and his mid-period masterpieces; yet I think it's probably Verdi's greatest work, problematic though it may be. 

Bruckner's late symphonies tend to overshadow the early ones, even though I've come to think 4-6 are probably the equals of 7-9. 

Rossini's Barber of Seville obviously dominates people's impression of him, but he wrote a lot of great operas beside it that deserve more attention.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

LezLee said:


> Completely agree about Villa-Lobos, I recently discovered his string quartets. There are 17 each with a distinctive style. Well worth exploring.


Also agree, but even within the complete Bachianas Brasileiras, the numbers 3 and 6 are rarely heard compared to the number 5. Naxos has (per usual) released a wonderful recording of the complete set of 9 with the Nashville Symphony - not an orchestra I had even heard before but in the hands of Kenneth Schermerhorn it achieves true greatness and the piano playing of JOSE FEGHALI is world class.

Any recording with Cristina Ortiz is also worth exploring - and not just for Villa Lobos - her Shostakovich piano concertos are in my opinion, the best of many fine performances


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

In my opinion (which probably won't be shared by many others, if any), Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is far better than the 9th symphony, which were both composed around the same time. It also seems like, to the general public, Bach's longer pieces are largely ignored in favor of his shorter pieces like those in Das Wohltemperierte Klavier.

Aside from the most famous composers, it's a bit hard to name pieces that are overshadowed. 

In terms of Feldman pieces (yeah, yeah, I know, I like to talk about him), it seems like Rothko Chapel is the most well-know piece in general, and The King of Denmark is famous in the world of percussionists. Neither of those pieces are in the top 50% of my favorite pieces of his.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> In your view or others, which works are unjustly overshadowed by more inferior popular works either by the same composer or another composer? This is a good opportunity to dig out some hidden gems.
> 
> Jephtha and Theodora by Handel are exquisite, but overshadowed by Messiah, which the composer felt was unjust himself.
> 
> ...


On the contrary, I think its in the top 5 pieces of all time, all genres, according to the Talk Classical Official List (which I dont know where to find at the moment). I do see an incongruous amount of conversation around it on this site, though. It is an amazing piece!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

mathisdermaler said:


> On the contrary, I think its in the top 5 pieces of all time, all genres, according to the Talk Classical Official List (which I dont know where to find at the moment). I do see an incongruous amount of conversation around it on this site, though. It is an amazing piece!


From another site:
Favorite Clarinet Works (all genres):
1 - Mozart: Clarinet Concerto
2 - Brahms: Clarinet Quintet
3 - Mozart: Clarinet Quintet in A major
4 - Debussy: Rhapsody for Clarinet & Piano
5 - Brahms: Clarinet Sonata Op. 120 #1 in F minor
6 - Adams: Gnarly Buttons (clarinet chamber concerto)
7 - Copland: Concerto for Clarinet, Strings, Harp & Piano
8 - Weber: Clarinet Concerto #1 in F Minor
9 - Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time
10 - Finzi: Clarinet Concerto


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