# Otello



## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

What are your thoughts on otello? I was thinking about seeing it Live in HD from the Met. Will it be any good for a newbie to opera? It is going to be only 3 hrs 30 minutes. Isn't that short for Otello?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Please don't don't let Johan Botha be your first Otello. You need someone who can act his socks off.!


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Please don't don't let Johan Botha be your first Otello. You need someone who can act his socks off.!


Well in terms of watchability it will be somewhere in the middle i think. Its not Verdi's easiest nor is it his worst.
Yes, Johan Botha....hear lots of nice things about his Lohengrin and Meistersinger but he's not for me. Have a DVD of him as Calaf in Turandot and he barely moves and has a nasal sound.

I love Otello and would highly recommend the Giusseppe Giacomini recording which is just stunning


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

My thoughts on Otello? Verdi's best opera by a long way. Astounding music - I think for me it is the zenith of romantic opera.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

I already watched a clip of opening of act III (where otello confronts desdemona about the hanky) and already I'm hooked. So what if its not the best tenor, as long as its got renee flemming it it thats enough for me.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Well if you want Renee Fleming save your pennies for this, with an excellent Otello:


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## Xavier (Jun 7, 2012)

stomanek said:


> My thoughts on Otello? Verdi's best opera by a long way.


By a long way??

Absolutely not!!

Yes _Otello_ is incredible but _Falstaff_ is still his finest opera.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Del Monaco/Tebaldi with either Karajan or Erede you're set.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I think Othello is a good introduction to Verdi, as would be Macbeth and Rigoletto - lots of psychodrama containing both death and tragedy but with a plot that's easy to follow. Falstaff is indeed a great work but not typical Verdi fare bearing in mind it's light-hearted qualities.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Xavier said:


> By a long way??
> 
> Absolutely not!!
> 
> Yes _Otello_ is incredible but _Falstaff_ is still his finest opera.


To me it is the zenith - I found Falstaff disappointing.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Xavier said:


> By a long way??
> 
> Absolutely not!!
> 
> Yes _Otello_ is incredible but _Falstaff_ is still his finest opera.


This. Most definitely.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm not really a Falstaff fan either, I've tried, honestly, and I DO like it, but to me it does not quite rise to the heights of Otello and Don Carlos. Mind you I've never seen it on stage, whereas I have the others (Otello with Domingo in his prime).


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

Otello is great. It's not as full of memorable tunes as Rigoletto is, but it's more interesting orchestrally, and the libretto is better. It really is a new development in Verdi's style -- similar to Das Rheingold in its musical variety and its attempt to musically mirror individual lines of the text, rather than trying to fit everything into set arias. It differs quite a lot from Shakespeare's play, I think, as is natural for a highly condensed opera version of one of our most loquacious playwright's works. I think the biggest difference is that, in the play, the most striking thing is how repulsive and sadistic Iago is, whereas in the opera, the focus is more on Otello and Desdemona, and Iago becomes more of a conventionally 'bad' guy.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

MamaScarlatti, that is the version that i saw a clip of on youtube. Absolutely outstanding. But here in Mexico City tickets to the met live in hd (in the largest venue in the world presenting them) start at just 50 pesos. Thats about $4.16 USD. Can't beat that. 

And about falstaff. That was his final opera wasn't it? I've heard that it has his most complex music in it. It ends with the fugue "All the world is a joke". I'm very much anticipating both my first otello and falstaff.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'm not really a Falstaff fan either, I've tried, honestly, and I DO like it, but to me it does not quite rise to the heights of Otello and Don Carlos. Mind you I've never seen it on stage, whereas I have the others (Otello with Domingo in his prime).


I liked it before but I liked it so much more after I'd seen it on stage.

Interesting that in his review David Karlin from Bachtrack said _"It's strange to say it of a Verdi opera, but for me, the music played a rather secondary role."_

I have to agree.

Going a bit OT here but my next _Falstaff_ will be this one.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

obwan said:


> MamaScarlatti, that is the version that i saw a clip of on youtube. Absolutely outstanding. But here in Mexico City tickets to the met live in hd (in the largest venue in the world presenting them) start at just 50 pesos. Thats about $4.16 USD. Can't beat that.


Well that is reasonable, and the music is still great. I've read some pretty savage reviews of Botha's singing in the theatre, but the consensus was that he was having a bad night or possibly ill, so he might have improved for the HD. But nothing will salvage his complete lack of acting. Makes Pavarotti look like Sarah Bernhardt.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

Mamascarlatti, can you share where you read reviews of Botha's acting? Or have you seen him in a performance?

I thought his acting was superb. There were times when his 'largeness' seemed to hinder his acting a bit, but other than that I was more than impressed. I would even venture to say his was the best of the entire cast. Just the way he would stare.... as if he had seen a ghost... you could read his thoughts. 

His singing was more than adequate as well. Only the Big 3 could have done better. 

There was a little innuendo, or subtext as it were, where it was alluded that Botha had indeed missed the last 3 performances due to a cold. It was also alluded, amongst other things that Renee Flemming herself got her own first big break at the met singing desdemona, that Botha and the entire cast was singing for an audience of 4,000 at the met and over 250,000 worldwide, that Botha was a huge fan of the play of Othello (he'd read it at least 5 times), the subtext being that Botha might have been ********** ** ** **** ** ******* *** today's televised matinee. 


The german baritone guy was great also. 

New favorite opera of mine.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Xavier said:


> By a long way??
> 
> Absolutely not!!
> 
> Yes _Otello_ is incredible but _Falstaff_ is still his finest opera.





Aksel said:


> This. Most definitely.


Too Wagnerian for you?


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

obwan said:


> Mamascarlatti, can you share where you read reviews of Botha's acting? Or have you seen him in a performance?
> 
> I thought his acting was superb. There were times when his 'largeness' seemed to hinder his acting a bit, but other than that I was more than impressed. I would even venture to say his was the best of the entire cast. Just the way he would stare.... as if he had seen a ghost... you could read his thoughts.
> 
> ...


My wife and I also so the HD production today and we agree with obwan's assesment.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Oh, well I'm pleased to hear that. My personal experience of Botha was limited to Aida and after seeing that I was determined never again.

Then I read some reviews on Parterre and they were very dismissive of him. But maybe Otello resonates more with him than Radames - certainly a more interesting character.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

brianwalker said:


> Too Wagnerian for you?


Nonsense. I adore Wagner. But Falstaff is such a great opera. Its orchestration is by far Verdi's greatest, and the character of Falstaff is just amazing.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Oh, well I'm pleased to hear that. My personal experience of Botha was limited to Aida and after seeing that I was determined never again.
> 
> Then I read some reviews on Parterre and they were very dismissive of him. But maybe Otello resonates more with him than Radames - certainly a more interesting character.


Huh. I actually saw Botha do Radames a few years ago in Vienna with Violeta Urmana as Aïda. I thought he was very good indeed.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Aksel said:


> Nonsense. I adore Wagner. But Falstaff is such a great opera. Its orchestration is by far Verdi's greatest, and the character of Falstaff is just amazing.


_"By far?" _

Which Otellos have you heretofore listened through?


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

brianwalker said:


> _"By far?" _
> 
> Which Otellos have you heretofore listened through?


Well, maybe _by far_ was taking it a bit too (heh) far, but I do think that Falstaff is Verdi's greatest opera. I won't deny that Otello is also a masterpiece, but I think Falstaff is better.

Oh, and mostly the Solti.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Aksel said:


> Well, maybe _by far_ was taking it a bit too (heh) far, but I do think that Falstaff is Verdi's greatest opera. I won't deny that Otello is also a masterpiece, but I think Falstaff is better.
> 
> Oh, and mostly the Solti.


Listen to the Karajan and get back to me.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

arpeggio said:


> My wife and I also so the HD production today and we agree with obwan's assesment.


I saw the HD production also and I agree with obwan's assessment also.

Botha was just coming off a bad cold and apparently missed all the earlier performances until literally the Saturday matinee which was telecast, and as a result of having rested up, he performed very well. He's had many health challenges as of late, possibly due to his weight, but on a good night, in my book, he can definitely keep up with the big three.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

brianwalker said:


> Too Wagnerian for you?


Funny, I would actually think Falstaff to be the most Wagnerian(whatever that means) of all of Verdi's Operas.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Aksel said:


> Well, maybe _by far_ was taking it a bit too (heh) far, but I do think that Falstaff is Verdi's greatest opera. I won't deny that Otello is also a masterpiece, but I think Falstaff is better.
> 
> Oh, and mostly the Solti.


I presume this is the version with Geraint Evans who was THE Falstaff of modern times.If you saw him in the part as I did on stage and on television his acting, as always,was stupendous.
With all of Verdi's operas the choice of stars is so important,e.g. Del Monaco was a geat Otello though he could be terribly loud in other parts. I suppose the greatest was Martinelli as long as you can get used to his sound--some people can't take it.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

moody said:


> I presume this is the version with Geraint Evans who was THE Falstaff of modern times.If you saw him in the part as I did on stage and on television his acting, as always,was stupendous.
> With all of Verdi's operas the choice of stars is so important,e.g. Del Monaco was a geat Otello though he could be terribly loud in other parts. I suppose the greatest was Martinelli as long as you can get used to his sound--some people can't take it.


Ambrogio Maestri is a brilliant Falstaff, I can recommend the new Robert Carsen production if it comes your way.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

I saw John Botha sing the Kaiser opposite Deborah Voigt's Kaiserin (this was way pre-little-black-dress, she was enormous but it was an enormous flowing role and gown) in Die Frau Ohne Schatten at Covent Garden, oh, this was maybe 2000 or 2001, and Botha was a match for Voigt visually and vocally. But I could discern no acting, but in his defense the opera can be pretty thankless dramatically. But five hours of Richard Strauss in one of the best opera houses in the world, I scarcely cared about a lack of drama.


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## rborganist (Jan 29, 2013)

I agree with Brian Walker. For sheer glorious singing of Otello, you can't beat Tebaldi and Del Monaco. Desdemonda might almost have been written for Tebaldi; it lies entirely in the loveliest part of her voice. She does an especially fine job on the Willow Song. Few tenors can sing Otello as effortlessly as Del Monaco, especially when Otello has to rage. There was a recording in the late 
1970s with Renata Scotto as Desdemonda, but her voice was already beginning to show signs of wear from pushing into dramatic parts. Stick with Tebaldi/Del Monaco.


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## AndyS (Dec 2, 2011)

I love Otello. I only have the Karajan (Del Monaco and Tebaldi) and the Solti (with Cossuta and Price). I've spent a lot more time with the Karajan, although Price's Desdemona is wonderful

I'll be getting the other Karajan with Vickers and Freni on my birthday (as part of the new EMI Verdi box)

However, with all those 3, I understand I still have to hear a good Jago!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

AndyS said:


> I love Otello. I only have the Karajan (Del Monaco and Tebaldi) and the Solti (with Cossuta and Price). I've spent a lot more time with the Karajan, although Price's Desdemona is wonderful
> 
> I'll be getting the other Karajan with Vickers and Freni on my birthday (as part of the new EMI Verdi box)
> 
> However, with all those 3, I understand I still have to hear a good Jago!


Otello is s great opera but Falstaff is something else. Quite magical. For me the greatest since Mozart. Try the Karajan version with Gobbi. Fantastic with baritone and conductor both at their peak. 
For Otello I have the Chung version with Domingo. I also have excerpts from both with Toscanini. Sound is dreadful but what conducting! And there is Vinay as Otello. Some rate him as the greatest of modern times - or ever? What do folks think?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I just purchased Karajan with Vickers and Freni. I know some critics were quick to condemn it as mannered but have you ever heard the love duet sung like this with Karajan drawing miraculous sounds from the BPO? This is surely what recording should be about.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

obwan said:


> What are your thoughts on otello?


along with _La Traviata_, _Otello_ is the best of Verdi operas, it also has the best libretto of all times.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

sharik said:


> along with _La Traviata_, _Otello_ is the best of Verdi operas, it also has the best libretto of all times.


In my opinion, the best Verdi opera (and possibly libretto) is Falstaff. But Otello is a close second.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> the best Verdi opera (and possibly libretto) is Falstaff


i have to admit i'm yet to watch _Falstaff_ ...i was not a big fan of the Italian Opera and i've come to it only after i ran out of Wagner's


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

It took me a long time to warm up to Falstaff. The first time I heard it was when I saw it lived. I found it rather inaccessible at the time and left at the end rather unappreciative. Certainly it was nothing like all of Verdi's previous work and it took me a long time after repeated listening to appreciate what all the fuzz was all about. Wish I did my homework more deligently before I went to see it. Otello was a lot easier to like. Memorable arias, lots of drama, tension, great chorus, after first listening, I was hooked.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

AndyS said:


> I love Otello. I only have the Karajan (Del Monaco and Tebaldi) and the Solti (with Cossuta and Price). I've spent a lot more time with the Karajan, although Price's Desdemona is wonderful
> 
> I'll be getting the other Karajan with Vickers and Freni on my birthday (as part of the new EMI Verdi box)
> 
> However, with all those 3, I understand I still have to hear a good Jago!


I think that Tebaldi and Del Monaco sound better in their earlier Decca recording .that's the important thing but then I'm not a Karajan disciple.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

AndyS said:


> )
> 
> However, with all those 3, I understand I still have to hear a good Jago!


Try Gobbi






PS Stand! You are in the presence of a master!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I must admit I only listened to 30 minutes of falstaff and got fed up - twenty years back. You all rave about it - I will get a recording and listen in the car to see if 20 years has improved my sensitivity to late verdi.


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## RobertoDevereux (Feb 12, 2013)

*stomanek*, let us know how you get on with this! At the moment, I am totally with you - I saw it three times (exactly to see what everyone was raving about (Solti's favorite opera!), and I still can't figure it out. (Otello though is just about the best opera I've heard. Ever.)

RD


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## Orselina (Mar 16, 2013)

I also was a little (ok, more than a little) underwhelmed with Botha.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Orselina said:


> I also was a little (ok, more than a little) underwhelmed with Botha.


That is my general feeling when confronted with him.


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