# An American 100



## Guest (Jan 5, 2015)

With apologies to patrons of the "Any interest in an American 100?" thread, who have already seen this:

Mary Anne Amacher, Sound Characters
George Antheil, Ballet Méchanique
Robert Ashley, In Sara, Mencken, Christ and Beethoven There Were Men and Women
Robert Ashley, Wolfman
Jonathan Berger, Meteora
Jonathan Berger, The Lead Plates of the ROM Press
Earle Brown, Octet I
Earle Brown, Four Systems
Cage, Imaginary Landscape no. 1
Cage, Credo in US
Cage, Perilous Night
Cage, 4' 33"
Cage, Cartridge Music
Cage, Etudes Boreales
Cage, Four
Elliott Carter, Double Concerto
Elliott Carter, String quartet no. 4
Elliott Carter, Sonata For Flute, Oboe, Cello & Harpsichord
Barney Childs, Take Five
Barney Childs, Roachville Project
Tony Conrad, Four Violins
Aaron Copland, Grohg
Aaron Copland, Piano Variations
Aaron Copland, Short Symphony
Aaron Copland, Inscape
Aaron Copland, Connotations
Stuart Dempster, In the Great Abbey of Clement VI
Todd Dockstader, Luna Park
Todd Dockstader, Omniphony
Todd Dockstader, Quatermass
Morton Feldman, String Quartet no. 2
Morton Feldman, Crlppled Symmetry
Morton Feldman, Flute and Orchestra
Morton Feldman, Patterns in a Chromatic Field
Philip Glass, La Belle et la Bête
Philip Glass, The Photographer
Andy Hosch, Quelques Sacre du Printemps
Andy Hosch, Ghosts of Spring
Charles Ives, Concord Sonata
Charles Ives, Symphony no. 4
Charles Ives, General William Booth Enters Into Heaven
Charles Ives, Three Places in New England
Donald Knaack, Dance Music
Robert Kurka, The Good Soldier Schweik
Alvin Lucier, I am sitting in a room
Alvin Lucier, Silver Streetcar for the Orchestra
Alvin Lucier, Vespers
Christian Marclay, Records
Christian Marclay (with Otomo Yoshihide), Moving Parts
Christian Marclay (with Yasunao Tone and Christian Wolff), Event
William Mayer, Octagon
Daniel Menche, Screaming Caress
Daniel Menche, The Face of Vehemence
Gordon Mumma, Hornpipe
Gordon Mumma, Megaton for Wm. Burroughs
Jon Christopher Nelson, objet sonore/ objet cinétique
Phill Niblock, Disseminate
Pauline Oliveros, I of IV
Pauline Oliveros (with Stuart Dempster and Panaiotis), Deep Listening
Bob Ostertag, Getting Ahead
Zeena Parkins (with Elliott Sharp), Psycho-Acoustic
Harry Partch, Daphne of the Dunes
Harry Partch, Delusion of the Fury
Harry Partch, Revelation in the Courthouse Park
Harry Partch, Ulysses Departs for the Edge of the World
Walter Piston, Symphony no. 2
Walter Piston, Incredible Flutist (complete ballet)
Steve Reich, Come Out
Steve Reich, Pendulum Music
Steve Reich, Clapping Music
Roger Reynolds, ...the serpent-snapping eye
Roger Reynolds, Coconino... a shattered landscape
Roger Reynolds, Myths
Roger Reynolds, Vertigo
Terry Riley, In C
Terry Riley, A Rainbow in Curved Air
Frederic Rzewski, The People United Will Never Be Defeated
William Schottstaedt, Dinosaur Music
Michael Schumacher, Room Pieces
Michael Schumacher, Filters and Filtered
William Schuman, In Praise of Shahn
Roger Sessions, Piano concerto
Roger Sessions, Symphony no. 3
Roger Sessions, Symphony no. 7
Roger Sessions, Concerto for orchestra
Alice Shields, Coyote
Alice Shields, The Transformation of Ani
Alice Shields, Apocalypse
Doug Theriault, Interface
Doug Theriault, Orange
David Tudor, Rainforest
David Tudor, Neural Synthesis
John Wiese, Circle Snare
John Wiese, Teenage Hallucination
Randy Yau, The Hidden Tongue
La Monte Young, Compositions 1960
La Monte Young, The Well-Tuned Piano
La Monte Young (with Marian Zazeela), Dream House
Z'ev, Symphony no. 2
Z'ev, As/If/When

This list is by someone who eschews lists, by the way. (I might as well come clean before someone else comes on and rats me out, eh?) Sometimes a project of this sort catches my attention, though. So in the meantime of waiting for a whole nominating and voting thing to get going, as per the "Any interest in..." thread, here's an American 100 list all done and ready for inspection and reaction. 

And yes, there will be  and , I am sure, as well as . Dinna fash. There will be plenty of :tiphat: as well, I am also sure. Pretty sure, anyway....


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I quite object to calling it "American" being only US centric, the US only being perhaps a sixth (?) of the total land mass of them North, Middle and South Americans!  

Some very lovely music on the list tho!

/ptr


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ptr said:


> I quite object to calling it "American" being only US centric, the US only being perhaps a sixth (?) of the total land mass of them North, Middle and South Americans!
> 
> Some very lovely music on the list tho!
> 
> /ptr


Sorry, but this is simple as pie. French music is European music, Dutch music is European music, by the outside world, rightly named or not, Swedish music is European music. Catch the drift? The continent is not at all one culture or mentality, Ergo, U.S.of American music, if you must have the geographical distinction spelled out. Yes, 'us Americans' are generally aware that Canada and Mexico are part of North America, that there is a Central America, and South America too. Blame the damned Spanish for the names


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2015)

ptr said:


> I quite object to calling it "American" being only US centric, the US only being perhaps a sixth (?) of the total land mass of them North, Middle and South Americans!
> 
> Some very lovely music on the list tho!
> 
> /ptr


You have just articulated my own objection to the adjective as well. But I just wussed out and accepted the American=US equation, even while on the inside I was wanting to include Canadians and Central and South Americans, who are some of my favorites. Well, good on you for calling me out on this. Everyone who accepts the American=US equation needs to be called out.

I accept my correction gladly.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry Pete, I don't like pie! I'm more of an international fusion foody sorta guy... 

Some Guy!, You've probably been round most of the Americas, can't You expand the list on the territories outside the USofA! (I know a few names, but it would be interesting to read what "people" in the composing business You feel is significant or interesting (or should be avoided), and of course anyone else with an interest up this alley are welcome to enlighten me!)

/ptr


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So now that we were handed the list, we can all go home now....even though I have many choices that are not on the list...???


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

ptr said:


> I quite object to calling it "American" being only US centric, the US only being perhaps a sixth (?) of the total land mass of them North, Middle and South Americans!
> 
> Some very lovely music on the list tho!
> 
> /ptr


"American", in North American English, means the United States thereof. (I understand the usage in South American Spanish is different.)

Sincerely,
A Canadian


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

hpowders said:


> So now that we were handed the list, we can all go home now....even though I have many choices that are not on the list...???


I can just sense your disappointment at the absence of Foster or Gottschalk from that list :devil:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

some guy said:


> You have just articulated my own objection to the adjective as well. But I just wussed out and accepted the American=US equation, even while on the inside I was wanting to include Canadians and Central and South Americans, who are some of my favorites. Well, good on you for calling me out on this. Everyone who accepts the American=US equation needs to be called out.
> 
> I accept my correction gladly.


I still say all "Americans" get to blame the Spanish for the too quick and general naming of two continents each larger than all of Europe and Scandinavia combined 

There are simply 'enough' U.S. Americans to stuff a list with over 100 composers.

Lotsa Canadians, too.

It isn't jingoistic to stay with U.S. Americans for one list. It is pragmatic...

Do Canada on its own, from where I bet there are also enough of interest to easily reach 100.

Mexico, I'm flat out ignorant, but imagine more currently there is a surge of young'uns it would be interesting to find out about.

South America is a huge continent, with classical music history going back for centuries, as has Mexico to some degree.

Call it jingoism, I think it is more a matter of limiting the subject so it is not literally swamped!

If Europe is done nation by nation, no reason "The Americas" should'nt be done similarly.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Re "America=US": that's a bitter issue in South America. There's still a resentment towards the US in South America because of what was an intervention from the part of the US in the internal politics of several South American countries during the 70s. This led to dictatorial regimes that, it's known, were supported, funded, and their leaders and troops trained, by the US. Many people were killed, concentration camps, etc... Of course, all this was in the context of the cold war, which makes all the thing even more complex.

Anyway, when people from the US say "America" in reference to the US only, this is interpreted in these South American countries as a continuation, at the discursive level, of the same 'imperialistic' thinking that led to the events in the 70s.

edit: Btw, I'm not 'accusing' nobody of 'imperialistic', of course ; with this comment, I was just trying to address how these kind of figures of speech can have a dramatically different meaning for different people.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't know enough US _of_ America D) composers as to make a list with 100 pieces. Anyway, I would like to add two composers from the Boston neoclassical school:

Irving Fine - Music for Piano

Harold Shapero - Four-Hand Sonata for Piano

Credit to PetrB for mentioning them in this forum.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Milton Babbitt hasn't been mentioned yet.

Don't you guys like him?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Milton Babbitt hasn't been mentioned yet.
> 
> Don't you guys like him?


Oh, it's just that fans of Milton don't like to talk much...:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Politically correct nonsense. Is there another nation in the continents of North or South America that has the term "America" in its name? We don't go about using the entire official names of other nations when referring to their citizens. "French Republicans" or "French"? "Federal Republicans of Germany" or just "Germans"? A "People's Republican of China" or simply "Chinese". Perhaps instead of referring to a citizen of North Korea we should use their "real" name and call them "Democratic People's Republicans of Korea"? 

What are the alternatives to "Americans"? USA-ers. United Statesians? It is interesting that when talk of "The Ugly American", or "Americanization" or "American Imperialism" or "American Interventionism" arises, there is no confusion as to who is being vilified.

By the way... I though politics were to be avoided in threads devoted to music.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Politically correct nonsense. Is there another nation in the continents of North or South America that has the term "America" in its name? We don't go about using the entire official names of other nations when referring to their citizens. "French Republicans" or "French"? "Federal Republicans of Germany" or just "Germans"? A "People's Republican of China" or simply "Chinese". Perhaps instead of referring to a citizen of North Korea we should use their "real" name and call them "Democratic People's Republicans of Korea"?
> 
> What are the alternatives to "Americans"? USA-ers. United Statesians? It is interesting that when talk of "The Ugly American", or "Americanization" or "American Imperialism" or "American Interventionism" arises, there is no confusion as to who is being vilified.
> 
> By the way... I though politics were to be avoided in threads devoted to music.


I agree with this.

However, the Italians were somehow able to come up with a demonym that actually sounds pretty catchy to my ear: "statunitense" (of course pronounced in Italian; unfortunately, in English this would sound horrible).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Milton Babbitt hasn't been mentioned yet.
> 
> Don't you guys like him?


I do, but I've been laughed at in the past for even mentioning his music. Some of it's really great, for sure.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Babbitt Jazz*

I have just checked out this thread and the line of discussion has lost me.

As far as Babbitt remember this neat post on Babbitt jazz from a year ago?

http://www.talkclassical.com/30292-pieces-have-blown-you-2.html#post597206

It does not sound any weirder than Ornette Coleman's Album _Sound Grammar_.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2015)

hpowders said:


> So now that we were handed the list, we can all go home now....even though I have many choices that are not on the list...???


On the other thread, the thread where this list originally appeared, I invited anyone who was able to provide their own lists of 100. And I also discouraged any tampering with the lists ala coming up with anything "definitive," preferring to keep each list as itself.

Did you miss that post? I know you have participated on that thread, both before and after my post.

So where did your "all go home now" thing come from? You haven't provided your own list of 100, yet, have you? Well? You can't go home until you do it. That's the rule.:devil:


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Politically correct nonsense. Is there another nation in the continents of North or South America that has the term "America" in its name? We don't go about using the entire official names of other nations when referring to their citizens. "French Republicans" or "French"? "Federal Republicans of Germany" or just "Germans"? A "People's Republican of China" or simply "Chinese". Perhaps instead of referring to a citizen of North Korea we should use their "real" name and call them "Democratic People's Republicans of Korea"?
> 
> What are the alternatives to "Americans"? USA-ers. United Statesians? It is interesting that when talk of "The Ugly American", or "Americanization" or "American Imperialism" or "American Interventionism" arises, there is no confusion as to who is being vilified.
> 
> By the way... I though politics were to be avoided in threads devoted to music.


All these comparisons are fallacious.
The term "France" does not appear in the name of the continent. Neither does "Germany" or "China".
"America" does.

This said, using Americans for "people from the USA" is a trope. As such, it is neither correct or incorrect, it is just a rethorical device, whose diffusion reflects its effectiveness.

However, in most cases a valid alternative to "American" could just be "US".











musicrom said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> However, the Italians were somehow able to come up with a demonym that actually sounds pretty catchy to my ear: "statunitense" (of course pronounced in Italian; unfortunately, in English this would sound horrible).


I confirm


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2015)

some guy said:


> You have just articulated my own objection to the adjective as well. But I just wussed out and accepted the American=US equation, even while on the inside I was wanting to include Canadians and Central and South Americans, who are some of my favorites. Well, good on you for calling me out on this. Everyone who accepts the American=US equation needs to be called out.
> 
> I accept my correction gladly.


In that case how about getting the title changed to US 100?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> In that case how about getting the title changed to US 100?


Sorry, I could not resist, but then someone will come in with some rant the thread is divisive, reading into it "Us vs. Them"

Leave it. Everyone knows the U.S of America goes by "America," and "American," and that is understood around the world.

Canadians think of themselves as Canadians, Mexicans as Mexicans, and of the central and south Americas, there are individual nations which the residents identify themselves as.

The flap about it is I think both petty academic and rather vogue-ish political correct tinged. Let It Be, it is well understood _by all_ as it stands.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2015)

As I have stated many times, I like seeing how threads develop beyond the stated purpose of the OP. But the mods here do not share my pleasure.

So we had best get back to the list of U.S. composers I supplied, critiquing it, adding to it, or simply responding with a fresh 100 of one's own.

As someone who is friends with many people from South and Central America, I symphathize with the naysayers here. I used the title that was given me, however, to make the connection between this thread and the other thread explicit. That's all.

If we aren't careful, the mods will bury this in the "Politics and Religion" subforum of the "Religious Music" forum. We don't want that to happen, do we? At least give everyone a chance to sample Alice Shields' _Coyote_ before it's moved.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I thought we were going to list our faves for an American 100, rather than forever ruminate ad nauseam.

Seems like the favored maxim on TC is take a simple concept and make it practically unrecognizable in newly found complexity.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Milton Babbitt hasn't been mentioned yet.
> 
> Don't you guys like him?


Sounds like a name out of a Dicken's novel.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2015)

hpowders said:


> I thought we were going to list our faves for an American 100, rather than forever ruminate ad nauseam.
> 
> Seems like the favored maxim on TC is take a simple concept and make it practically unrecognizable in newly found complexity.


Well? Make a 100 list of your own and post it here. It's that simple.

Why, you could make a 13 list or a 67 list if you wanted. No one will fault you for that.

In other news, "Babbitt" is in actual fact a character in a Sinclair Lewis novel.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

This is my personal list. Still, I feel many composers & genres are missing.
I am very interested in both each member's personal list and the collective American 100, which I will participate in once it starts.

Adams, J. C. - Century Rolls
Adams, J. C. - Lollapalooza
Adams, J. L. - Become Ocean
Adams, J. L. - Dark Wind
Alves, Bill - Mystic Canyon / Concerto for Violin and Gamelan
Benary, Barbara - Aural Schoehorning
Bernstein, Leonard - Mass
Bolcom, William - Songs of Innocence and of Experience
Branca, Glenn - Symphony No. 3 Gloria
Budd, Harold - String Quartet 2003
Budd, Harold - Bismillahi 'Rrahmani 'Rrahim
Budd, Harold - La Bella Vista
Budd, Harold - Jane
Cage, John - 4'33"
Cage, John - Etude Australes
Cage, John - Freeman Etudes
Cage, John - In a Landscape
Cage, John - Six Melodies
Cage, John - Sonatas and Interludes
Cage, John - Music of Changes
Cage, John - String Quartet in Four Parts
Cage, John - Two4 for Violin and Sho or Piano
Cage, John - First Construction (in Metal)
Chatham, Rhys - Guitar Trio
Copland, Aaron - Billy The Kid
Copland, Aaron - Appalachian Spring
Cowell - Mosaic Quartet
Crawford Seeger, Ruth - Music for Small Orchestra
Crumb, George - Black Angels
Diamond, David - String Quartet No. 8
Doty, David B. - Steel Suite
Dresher, Paul - Double Ikat
Erickson, Robert - Solstice
Erickson, Robert - Pacific Sirens
Feldman, Barbara - The Northern Shore
Feldman, Morton - Triadic Memories
Fink, Michael Jon - A Temperament For Angels
Fox, Jim - Descansos, Past
Fox, Jim - The City the Wind Swept Away
Fullman, Ellen - Body Music
Gann, Kyle - Long Night
Garland, Peter - String Quartet No. 1
Gershwin, George - Rhapsody in Blue
Gershwin, George - Porgy & Bess
Gordon, Michael - Rushes
Harrison, Lou - Suite for Violin with American Gamelan
Harrison, Lou - La Koro Sutro
Harrison, Michael - Music in Pure Intonation
Harrison, Michael - Just Ancient Loops
Ives - String Quartet No. 1
Ives - String Quartet No. 2
Ives - The Unanswered Question
Ives - Concord Sonata
Ives - New England Holidays
Johnson, Dennis - November
Keeril Makan - The Noise Between Thoughts
La Barbara, Joan - Persistence of Memory
Leach, Mary Jane - Feu de Joie
Lentz, Daniel - Los Tigres de Marte
Lentz, Daniel - Is It Love?
Lentz, Daniel - Point Conception
Lentz, Daniel - The Crack in the Bell
Lucier, Alvin - I am sitting in a room
Marshall, Ingram - Son of Soe-pa
McIntosh, Andrew Nathaniel - Hyenas in the Temples of Pleasure
Nancarrow, Conlon - Studies for Player Piano
Niblock, Phill - Five More String Quartets
Palestine, Charlemagne - Strumming for Bosendorfer Piano
Partch, Harry - The Wayward
Partch, Harry - Castor & Pollux
Partch, Harry - Delusion of the Fury
Partch, Harry - Dephne of the Dunes
Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians
Reich, Steve - Drumming
Reich, Steve - Octet
Reich, Steve - Music for a Large Ensemble
Riley, Terry - In C
Riley, Terry - The Harp of New Albion
Riley, Terry - Salome Dances for Peace
Riley, Terry - Shri Camel
Rochberg, George - String Quartet No. 3
Rosenblum, Mathew - Double Concerto
Rzewski, Frederic - The People United Will Never Be Defeated
Scott, Stephen - Rainbows I & II
Seidel, Dave - ~60Hz
Speach, Bernadette - Trio Des Trios III
Still, William Grant - Afro-American Symphony
Tenney, James - Spectral Canon for Conlon Nancarrow
Thomson, Virgil - The Feast of Love
Thomson, Virgil - String Quartet No. 1
Thomson, Virgil - String Quartet No. 2
Tudor, David - Rainforest IV
Vierk, Lois V - Cirrus
Wolfe, Julia - Steel Hammer
Wolff, Christian - Snowdrop
Worthington, Scott - Even the Light Itself Falls
Wuorinen, Charles - String Sextet
Young, La Monte - The Well Tuned Piano
Young, La Monte - Trio for Strings
Zorn, John - Cat O'nine Tails


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Sounds like a name out of a Dicken's novel.


_Babbitt _was a Sinclair Lewis novel from 1922, which helped win him the Nobel Prize in 1930.


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> I do, but I've been laughed at in the past for even mentioning his music. Some of it's really great, for sure.


Jeez, my mind flashed to a vinyl album we had in our house a million years ago called New Electronic Music, with music by Babbitt, Cage and Henri Pousseur and i was surprised to find an image.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

ptr said:


> I quite object to calling it "American" being only US centric, the US only being perhaps a sixth (?) of the total land mass of them North, Middle and South Americans!
> 
> Some very lovely music on the list tho!
> 
> /ptr


You know I love ya ptr but the fact is that anywhere in the world you say positive or negative about "Americans" anyone knows you are NOT talking about Canada, Mexico or any of the South or Central American countries. So, I see no need to set up qualifiers such as U.S. Americans to distinguish the music. Besides I think most Canadians and Mexicans would take offense at you calling them Americans. Like it or not Americans has become synonymous with the U.S.A. and it's citizenship.

Kevin


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2015)

Yes, we've gone over all of this already.

Now let's look at the two lists we have, the alternate pieces from the same composers, the duplicate listings, the vast wealth of material in the second list that is completely missing from the first list. (And some of those people are good friends of mine, too. Just not that thrilled by the music, sadly. I wish I were. I love those guys.)

And let's make ourselves some more lists, why not?

hpowers seems to have left the room, but surely there are others with 100 U.S. composer favorites. Or less. In this thread there is absolutely no compulsion to make a list of 100.

And talking, too. This lists aren't anything if they don't act as springboards for discussion. Discussion of music, that is!

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.:lol:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

some guy said:


> With apologies to patrons of the "Any interest in an American 100?" thread, who have already seen this:
> 
> Mary Anne Amacher, Sound Characters
> George Antheil, Ballet Méchanique
> ...


I don't know many of those composers, some I do know and their music can but not always engage me. I look forward to exploring some at my discretion.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Kevin Pearson said:


> You know I love ya ptr but the fact is that anywhere in the world you say positive or negative about "Americans" anyone knows you are NOT talking about Canada, Mexico or any of the South or Central American countries. So, I see no need to set up qualifiers such as U.S. Americans to distinguish the music. Besides I think most Canadians and Mexicans would take offense at you calling them Americans. Like it or not Americans has become synonymous with the U.S.A. and it's citizenship.


Hey Kev! You're taking my post way to seriously! It was only mad in jest! (Which I think Some Guy quite understood!)

/ptr


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2015)

some guy said:


> hpowers seems to have left the room, but surely there are others with 100 U.S. composer favorites. Or less. In this thread there is absolutely no compulsion to make a list of 100.


I could, perhaps, try - some time soon. But I don't know as many composers as you people, so my list would just be a list of favorites by Ives, Carter, Feldman, Cage, Partch, Crumb, Reich, Adams, and Coates...perhaps with a bit of Copland and Barber mixed in. I'm trying...but a couple years in the field can only yield so much.


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