# This is wonderful (Elgar's Enigma Variations)



## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

...I guess a lot of people know that already.

What do you think of it? Should it be more highly esteemed? Should the composer also?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I've never understood why the Elgar variations are variations. No one seems to be able to explain why.


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

pianozach said:


> I've never understood why the Elgar variations are variations. No one seems to be able to explain why.


I cant help you either. I dont even know what is meant by variations. Varaiations of a theme? in the same key? 

I'm not a musician as I'm sure you can tell lol

it just sounds great


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

There are hundreds of articles, books, lectures about this work and it is clearly a set of variations on a theme, although unlike other works in this form, Elgar doesn't first state that theme directly. But it doesn't take that much effort to hear the same tune throughout the whole work. It's a masterpiece of orchestral writing. I've played it many times and never get tired of it. The last time was a very interesting programming idea; everything was a theme and variation. Opened with Glinka's Kamarinskaya, then onto the Elgar. Intermission. Then Gliere's Russian Sailor's Dance followed by the Brahms Variations on a theme of Haydn.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

If this piece was a movie, I'd cue the end credits:






If you like the Enigma Variations, this would be the next piece I recommend, although Elgar wrote a number of esteemed works and in my estimation expresses he does a great deal of beauty and perfection of style, similar to some others I overrate as great. Try him on and if you pleasure in your time wearing him you'll have an expanded wardrobe for next year.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> ...I guess a lot of people know that already.
> 
> What do you think of it? Should it be more highly esteemed? Should the composer also?


Well, of course, when this work is programmed, everyone is waiting for Variation IX, Nimrod (at 14:45 here), _perhaps_ one of the greatest 4-5 minutes of classical music ever composed. Instead of listening only to Nimrod, listen to the Variation VIII before it because as VIII ends it acts as a wonderful lead-in, without a pause, to Nimrod. Also, notice the musicians as Nimrod begins because they go to a whole new level of seriousness. They know that this moment is magical! And it is a great performance of the work.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Wasn't there alleged to be a secret "hidden" variation no one has figured out, hence the title? Or is that apocryphal?


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I enjoy the work, but I don't rate it as one of Elgar's best. I prefer other works like _The Dream of Gerontius_, _Symphony No. 2_, _Sea Pictures_, the _Violin Sonata_, _Introduction & Allegro_, the _Violin Concerto_ and _The Spirit of England_. These works have had a deep impact on me and I consider them each masterpieces.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I love the work, and not to forget high in the funeral top 10 playlist


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Neo Romanza said:


> I enjoy the work, but I don't rate it as one of Elgar's best. I prefer other works like _The Dream of Gerontius_, _Symphony No. 2_, _Sea Pictures_, the _Violin Sonata_, _Introduction & Allegro_, the _Violin Concerto_ and _The Spirit of England_. These works have had a deep impact on me and I consider them each masterpieces.


I'm not familiar with some of these works, so thank you for mentioning them.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

DaveM said:


> Well, of course, when this work is programmed, everyone is waiting for Variation IX, Nimrod (at 14:45 here), _perhaps_ one of the greatest 4-5 minutes of classical music ever composed. Instead of listening only to Nimrod, listen to the Variation VIII before it because as VIII ends it acts as a wonderful lead-in, without a pause, to Nimrod. Also, notice the musicians as Nimrod begins because they go to a whole new level of seriousness. They know that this moment is magical! And it is a great performance of the work.


No perhaps about it Dave. Absolutely one of the greatest 4-5 minutes and I agree that this is a very fine performance of this work.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> I'm not familiar with some of these works, so thank you for mentioning them.


Check out his Oratorios 'The Apostles' and The Kingdom' if you haven't already. Both are full of some of the most beautiful and haunting music he ever wrote imo.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

mbhaub said:


> There are hundreds of articles, books, lectures about this work and it is clearly a set of variations on a theme, although unlike other works in this form, Elgar doesn't first state that theme directly.


What do you mean? The piece begins with the original theme.


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## ibrahim (Apr 29, 2017)

I saw his second symphony with the National Symphony Orchestra and was bored (not necessarily the fault of the composer ofc.) I like the Violin concerto, Enigma Variations, and Pomp & Circumstance.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Neo Romanza said:


> I enjoy the work, but I don't rate it as one of Elgar's best. I prefer other works like _The Dream of Gerontius_, _Symphony No. 2_, _Sea Pictures_, the _Violin Sonata_, _Introduction & Allegro_, the _Violin Concerto_ and _The Spirit of England_. These works have had a deep impact on me and I consider them each masterpieces.


Elgar is not known for his instrumental works but I agree the Violin sonata is top notch. Dont miss it


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

He used to be on the English £20 note...









now its Turner...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> .... everything was a theme and variation. Opened with Glinka's Kamarinskaya, then onto the Elgar. Intermission. Then Gliere's Russian Sailor's Dance followed by the Brahms Variations on a theme of Haydn.


Have you ever played Donhanyi's "Variations on a Nursery Tune" [Twinkle, Twinkle...]?? Neat piece, with excellent bassoon part...wonderful section soli 2 bssns/cbn....somewhat like Bartok CfO....really cool piece, great fun to play.


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> He used to be on the English £20 note...
> 
> View attachment 177742
> 
> ...


Were or are any other composers celebrated in this way, are they on their countries currency?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> Were or are any other composers celebrated in this way, are they on their countries currency?


Just a few from the top of my head:
Finland/Sibelius
Poland/Chopin
Norway/Grieg


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> Were or are any other composers celebrated in this way, are they on their countries currency?


I've got a Romanian 5 Lei bank note here (found it in an old book where it served as a bookmark...) that has Georges Enescu's portrait.
For the Enescu experts among us: what's the musical quotation on the other side from?


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Composers/Musicians on Coins? | Classical Music Forum (talkclassical.com)

we've had this topic before


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Why is Elgar not as much talked about as say someone like Rachmaninoff or Sibelius?


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Has anyone already mentioned this website?









Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater: the solution to Elgar’s Enigma Variations?


A new solution to the enigma at the heart of Elgar’s most famous work.




medium.com





“The scale degrees of the opening of the Enigma theme;
It’s worth mentioning another, non-musical solution: that the number Pi is the hidden theme. Proponents of this theory note that the opening notes of the Enigma theme are scale degrees 3, 1, 4 and 2, which they point out are the first four digits of Pi (3.142…).”

But the correct answer might be;

A new solution: Pergolesi’s Stabat Mater


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

From the sublime (the music) to the ridiculous (the 'solutions').


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## Wilhelm Theophilus (Aug 8, 2020)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> Why is Elgar not as much talked about as say someone like Rachmaninoff or Sibelius?


Can anyone speak to this?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Luchesi said:


> Has anyone already mentioned this website?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which were the first numbers the Germans plugged into the Enigma code machine in WW2 which is why the device was so named!

(No, that’s a joke..)


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

DaveM said:


> Which were the first numbers the Germans plugged into the Enigma code machine in WW2 which is why the device was so named!
> 
> (No, that’s a joke..)


I memorized Pi to 314 places to win small bets in bars while working at remote sites in AK. No roads, but we had bars. Dillingham, Galena, Shemya, King Salmon, I don't want to go back! I'm allergic to cold. I remember hearing the Variations for the first time, Armed Forces Radio ....there was a midnight sun. Very eerie and surreal.


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)




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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Wilhelm Theophilus said:


> Can anyone speak to this?


Well, I think a lot of comes down to demographics and perhaps influence as well. Elgar was really the first truly great 20th Century composer to come out of England. Before him, there really weren't a lot of composers that were writing symphonies, concerti et. al. in this country. England has a history of early music with Byrd, Tallis, Dowland et. al., but it wasn't really until Elgar came along that it shook off those Renaissance Era shackles and gave the public some bonafide orchestral music. Some critics saw Elgar's music as "old fashioned" by the time Vaughan Williams and Holst came onto the scene in England. There _are_ a few works from Elgar that a part of the standard repertoire besides the _Enigma Variations_ like the _Cello Concerto_, _Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2_, _Sea Pictures_, several of the _Pomp & Circumstance Marches_ and _The Dream of Gerontius_ (although I'm less sure how often this work is performed nowadays). Those willing to do a deeper dive into his oeuvre will uncover many gems. Elgar's best music, IMHO, always has this kind of emotional tug-of-war happening and a certain swagger to the music. I can't answer _why_ he's not spoken of in the same breath as Rachmaninov or Sibelius since these two composers also occupy a unique time in music history. I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that Elgar was an English composer and this country's greatest composers are pretty much alien to the Germanic, French and Russian classical worlds. I mean their music does get performed in these countries from time to time, but English composers have never had much of a foothold in these three musical cultures.


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