# Organising music in the head



## Roberto (Jul 17, 2010)

Thought this might be of interest to some.....

Has anyone ever thought of how many musical quotations - of several bars at least - they can hold in their head at the same time? 

How many pieces can you remember substantial parts of?

How many listenings does it take to get a piece of music really embedded into one's mind?

After that, how do we then arrange all these pieces in our heads? What is the mental filing system? How do people cope with overload? Or with the feelings that certain pieces are too dominant (sure we have all felt that)?

I suppose if you are a composer the question becomes really important. But with so much music available, it is also an issue for everyone


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Why is it necessary?


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## Roberto (Jul 17, 2010)

To maintain a sense of order amidst all the chaos!

But maybe I like order than most people, or maybe I find it harder to establish, I don't know


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Roberto said:


> Thought this might be of interest to some.....
> 
> Has anyone ever thought of how many musical quotations - of several bars at least - they can hold in their head at the same time?
> 
> ...


I remember better the songs I love most.  It's the pieces I get an actual emotional response to which helps me remember it.

It takes at least 2 (1 time is very rare), but in very complex, long music cases, 5 or more.

Learning to play a piece of music really helps to memorize it. I've completely memorized some of my flute solos, so that I remember even what the accompaniment is doing at any given time.

Mental overload? Is that possible? Well, I hate it when I get a song stuck in my head (especially if it isn't so great). As for "mental filing system" the brain is too complex to set up even in that way. I often blur pieces of music I listen to together, especially if they share similar characteristics, such as theme, rhythm, or even melody. For me, the only ways to get a song out of your head is 1) listen to something else 2) go do something other than listening to music.

Here's an example: I dare you to take the first measure of the main theme of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, and juxtapose it with the first measure of the main theme of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto. See what you notice.


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Here's an example: I dare you to take the first measure of the main theme of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, and juxtapose it with the first measure of the main theme of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto. See what you notice.


My head nearly exploded.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Here's an example: I dare you to take the first measure of the main theme of Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, and juxtapose it with the first measure of the main theme of Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto. See what you notice.


Am I hearing what I'm supposed to be hearing? 'Cuz it sounds really good.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Kopachris said:


> Am I hearing what I'm supposed to be hearing? 'Cuz it sounds really good.


Oh, I forgot to note, it's the melodies from the _3rd_ movements of both.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Oh, I forgot to note, it's the melodies from the _3rd_ movements of both.


Well, the third movements sound pretty good together, too. Or is that just me?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Kopachris said:


> Well, the third movements sound pretty good together, too. Or is that just me?


What I noticed is that both themes use the exact _rhythm _(in the first measure of both), just different notes and keys.

1+a 2+ 3+ 4+


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## 151 (Jun 14, 2010)

Your question came across to me as being a bit sketchy. You might be skating around a very profound question though.

It's very hard to quantify or assess qualitative abilities of the brain. To summarise, I'd just say we process different energies and values in different ways.

What is interesting to me is when something occurs to our memories and remembrance of the musical events and that's when we begin to re-combine, modify and play with the ideas. Something visual, such as a sunset can become part of a memory of a sound. It only hints at the powers of the sub-conscious and is a teaser, showing that we constantly approximate things with pattern and familiarise ourselves with things in groups to make it easier.

I was asking myself the other day -

When I felt all these themes and heard such powerful music in my imagination as a child, how much of it was influenced by the creators around me (films, television, computer games, conversation, playing recorder and piano, singing in assembly and in choir) and how much is original creation? Or rather, how did I learn to make music around what I had heard, merely with associations.

I have a head full of music. I think science holds the opinion that you can generally only concentrate on a certain about of things at one time, I don't really hold an opinion in contrary.

I think we try to cope with overload by using strange sort of algebraic logic. I think we remember by re-affirming and simulating certain experiences and attracting the repetition, seeking numeral or infinite sets of reasoning around energies we deem beneficial.

Oops, lengthy.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Often when I do not have access to music I will play entire symphonies in my head.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> After that, how do we then arrange all these pieces in our heads? What is the mental filing system? How do people cope with overload? Or with the feelings that certain pieces are too dominant (sure we have all felt that)?


Perhaps you'll agree that we all need a robust head case to achieve these tasks? 

How do we organise our emotions - or file them? How do we organise our knowledge - learnt and applied (theory and experience)?

I suppose I see 151's point of view: there is a general question in there somewhere, however it tries to be too specific. Specifically about organising music, whereas organising of cognitions; emotions; experiences; memories ... and life ... takes precedence ["How do we organise what we experience?" being the general question] if we are not to become a mental wreck carried along tempestuously by the direction of a sonata form; allegro, scherzo, andante, allegro assai. That would be chaos. An individual needs anchors, so that he is not blown by the wind 

Maybe to start off.... pick any theory of learning you know of .. .and then explore how that theory considers how listening to music (one form of sensory experience) becomes encoded as 'meaningful' in the head [case]


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Roberto said:


> I suppose if you are a composer the question becomes really important.


Not just _composers_, mind you...

Take, for instance, Piano & Violin virtuosi. They have a set repertoire of concerto showpieces, and are expected to play them publicly without referring to the sheet-music.

The more famous anecdotes concerning knowledge of musical detail are attached to conductors, some of whom routinely led performances from memory, without using podium-scores--


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## Mike Saville (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd also add that in my experience as a player and teacher many people seem to have an aversion to memorisation. They give up before starting. In reality I find that everyone can memorise something - even if it is only a few bars.

I also think it is a skill like anything else that you can practice and improve.

From my own experience I first memorised some pieces for a recital I gave 20 years ago. But for a few notes I can still remember the pieces in their entirety. 

If you memorise music I find it tends to stick


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