# Schubert and Dvorak: early symphonies



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Prompted by a comment on a thread (elsewhere on the Web):
_Dvorak symphonies, a complete set ! - Do you like watching paint dry?_

I only really know the late symphonies of both (8 & 9 and 7-9) respectively. And how wonderful they are.
Don't really know the rest, though quite taken with Schubert 3 and 5, and Dvorak 5 and 6.

I have read comments like that above about both composers - to whit, that the first 4-6 symphonies or so by each aren't all that captivating.

Fair in both, one or neither case?


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

My 2 cents...

I absolutely love Schubert's 1st and 2nd symphonies and feel they are totally overlooked. Most days I actually prefer to listen to them over all of his others. All of Schubert's are worth repeated listens in my book and should be staples of any symphonic music lover's diet. 

Dvorak is a different matter. I think Symphonies 1-4 deserve to be heard, because they are enjoyable and there are some good moments in them, but on the whole they are not on the same level as 5-9 in my book.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The early Dvorak symphonies are quite underrated and hardly ever performed live ,but there are plenty of excellent recordings of them on CD, fortunately .
The first two are extremely interesting and though not quite mature, filled with spontaneous melodic invention . The third is probably the first mature one and just plain gorgeous . I fell in love with it
long ago when I was just a kid before CDs existed from the classic Kertesz/LSO recordings on LP.
If you are looking for a first rate, inexpensive set of all nine Dvorak symphonies, you cannot go wrong with these Kertesz recordings .


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

superhorn said:


> If you are looking for a first rate, inexpensive set of all nine Dvorak symphonies, you cannot go wrong with these Kertesz recordings .


I am eyeing up, respectively, cycles by Abbado/Blomstedt/Bruggen/Harnoncourt, 
and perhaps more predictably, 
Kertesz/Kubelik/Rowicki/Suitner...
Bruggen and Rowicki perhaps shading each, because of their apparent fine treatment of said early symphs!


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I love Schubert's early symphonies. I have the Harnoncourt complete set and they are amongst my most played pieces. Dvorak, not so much, as far as his Symphonies 1-4 go, though I enjoy them well enough.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Each to his own. No recs I've heard got me excited about Schubert 1 - 3, and Dvorak 1 - 4, so I think there's some value in the generalizations cited by OPie. But I must add, that I do think Muti and Suitner, respectively, do a fine job with the cycles. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

All of their symphonies have some value, but I would certainly agree that there's some sort of gap. For what it's worth, I think 4-6 are a good bit better than 1-3, in both cases. Schubert's 4th and 5th are especially good, imo.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

I think there is a trend with all composers to get better as they go along. Even Beethoven's first 2 symphonies are not considered to be the landmarks of the bunch, and his last is considered by many to be his greatest. That is a natural progression of development as a composer and artist.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

there may well be a natural development, and the later works may be considered more 'significant' but they are also possibly more familiar and there is much to be enjoyed and appreciated in discovering the 'delights' of apparently lesser known works-I have listened with great frequency to the Dvorak symphonies and as I have pointed out previously I think the 3rd (particularly the second movement)is a glorious work-I also find myself often turning to the 3rd and 4th of Schubert........and while it might appear that I am just being contrary I have really enjoyed getting to know the first two symphonies of Beethoven as opposed to listening again to the 6th or 7th etc.......

Jarvi and the SNO on Chandos perform Dvorak's 3rd impressively,and while I have the Abbado/COE recording of the 3rd and 4th of Schubert I have also frequently considered either the van Immerseel/Anima Eterna or Bruggen sets!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Jerome said:


> I think there is a trend with all composers to get better as they go along.


Yes, I'm sure you're right. I've just seen this theory put forward a lot for both these composers in particular (perhaps because I love, and thus read lots about, both).

Wondering which works buck this later-is-better trend (and obviously some believe that early Schubert does).
I suppose Bruckner 2 _perhaps _ doesn't quite stand up to the exalted 5-9 (what could?), but boy it's good.
Aware that Brahms 1 doesn't work here, as it took a long time coming...


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

Steve Wright said:


> Yes, I'm sure you're right. I've just seen this theory put forward a lot for both these composers in particular (perhaps because I love, and thus read lots about, both).
> 
> Wondering which works buck this later-is-better trend (and obviously some believe that early Schubert does).
> I suppose Bruckner 2 _perhaps _ doesn't quite stand up to the exalted 5-9 (what could?), but boy it's good.
> Aware that Brahms 1 doesn't work here, as it took a long time coming...


Of course I mean that the trend is apparent in the general popularity of a composers works over the course of their development. But nobody has to follow general popularity. I absolutely love LvB's first two symphonies and have recently discovered a love for Schubert's first two after hearing the Dausgaard recording on BIS.

postscript: *Another exception is Prokofiev's first which I LOVE far and away better than the rest of his symphonies.*


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2015)

jim prideaux said:


> Jarvi and the SNO on Chandos perform Dvorak's 3rd impressively,and while I have the Abbado/COE recording of the 3rd and 4th of Schubert I have also frequently considered either the van Immerseel/Anima Eterna or Bruggen sets!


The Jarvi set is really good across the board but I haven't yet found of love for Dvorak's early symphonies.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Dvorak's 3rd symphony is my preferred symphony of his behind the 9th and the 6th. A fantastically entertaining work. Also, Schubert's 4th is my preferred of all his works. I won't come here and argue it was technically greater by any means, but I do enjoy it the most.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Avey said:


> Dvorak's 3rd symphony is my preferred symphony of his behind the 9th and the 6th. A fantastically entertaining work. Also, Schubert's 4th is my preferred of all his works. I won't come here and argue it was technically greater by any means, but I do enjoy it the most.


Of his symphonies, Schubert 4 is my favorite also.

Age and any perceived writer's blockage aside, "out of the gate" was especially kind to Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, Sibelius, Nielsen. :tiphat:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't think Schubert's first two or three symphonies contain all that much to get excited about, but they were probably invaluable as teeth-cutting exercises in orchestral composition for someone who was still in his teens when he wrote them.

Dvořák's first four symphonies were largely ignored by the composer himself - for many years his 5th was known as the 1st, which possibly tells its own story. They're steady enough but, especially in the case of the first three, lack that individual flair which really only started to manifest itself in Dvořák's output from about 1874-5. The 3rd in particular seems to drag on for too long but the 4th is a significant improvement which tentatively points the way to greater things, despite sounding little more than a tribute to Wagner in places.


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