# Schwartzkopf's sound - do you really like it?



## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

Well, here is another "is it just me or..." posts: I really dislike Schwartzkopf's voice, no matter how technically well and expressively she sings. Too much of a nasal, "witchy" sound, neither transparency as in a light voice, nor body or warmth. Am I alone? (A note: the only recording I have heard of here that didn't sound like that is the Strauss 4 Last Songs, NOT the famous one, but the one with Ackermann).


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

You may not be alone, but don't expect to win any elections.
Have you heard her Schubert lieder with Edwin Fischer? Her Marschallin with Karajan? If you have, I can recommend more options. I admire her delicacy, sensitivity to shape and phrasing, ability to convey emotion (not inconsiderable,though she was no Callas),and beauty of tone.


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## Green pasture (Aug 11, 2015)

To me her particular type of vocal timbre and temperament make her superb in portraying aristocratic, worldly and sophisticated ladies such as the Marschallin and the Countess Madeleine in Capriccio. But she is also capable of varying her tonal colours to portray spiteful, vengeful harridans like Donna Elvira in Don Giovanni.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

I have heard those, and I was only referring to her basic timbre, not to her many (other?) artistic qualities. Beauty of tone - that's where I disagree.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

Anyone remember the Schwartzkopf/della Casa comparison? Like the Callas/Tebaldi one, it is also about interpretative quality versus beauty of timbre (in order of appearance of singers, of course), so I my not be alone after all...


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## Green pasture (Aug 11, 2015)

It all boils down to personal tastes and preferences. A question like this is always going to generate a wide spectrum of answers. 

Where Schwarzkopf's vocal timbre is concerned, I consider myself a moderate. Where her artistry and musicianship is concerned, I'm an admirer.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

antoniolopes said:


> Anyone remember the Schwartzkopf/della Casa comparison? Like the Callas/Tebaldi one, it is also about interpretative quality versus beauty of timbre (in order of appearance of singers, of course), so I my not be alone after all...


Of course you are not alone  I don't mean I don't particularly admire timbre of"Lady Black Head" ( Schwartzkopf), but I can't say that I really dislike her voice. What I want to say is that we all come to forums , social nets, etc for finding like-minded people, to share our views, for support, etc, so to say to find out we are not alone with our opinions, sometimes to prove that we are not wrong thinking what we think, in short to know that we are not alone. But in reality it's quite clear that we are not alone, coz there are so many people in the world with different tastes and opinions, that it's for sure there are many who don't like or didn't like Schwartzkopf's timbre, there must be no doubt of it  and who cares if someone admitted she was a Diva or she was a genius, etc. Everyone can have his/her own opinion regardless what all well-known critics, conductors, showmen, etc say and make us believe......


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

I love everything 'about' Elisabeth Schwarzkopf's artistry: timbre, interpretative insight, and expression. . . and of course the synaesthetic effect of it all which is compounded by her 'looks.'

People are entitled to their own opinion with regards to beauty, but let's be honest- there's a reason some people consistently 'make it' on the _Harper's_ or the _Gramophone_ list- and others don't.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I adore Schwarzkopf's (please note no t) artistry _and_ her voice, the basic timbre of which I find absolutely ravishing. Just listen to her recording of Agathe's arias from *Der Freischutz*, the tone so pure and true, the legato line so firmly held.

I could find countless examples of her vocal sheen and beauty, but let me post just this one. Nobody, as far as I am concerned, not Te Kanawa, not Fleming, not even Lotte Lehmann, has sounded so ravishing in this piece.






The way she floats those top notes is just spectacular.

Nor am I alone in my appreciation. The late John Steane, a great writer and connoisseur of the voice, finds in her his most perfect exponent of the art of classical singing.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I adore Schwarzkopf's artistry _and_ her voice, the basic timbre of which I find absolutely ravishing. Just listen to her recording of Agathe's arias from *Der Freischutz*, the tone so pure and true, the legato line so firmly held.
> 
> I could find countless examples of her vocal sheen and beauty, but let me post just this one. Nobody, as far as I am concerned, not Te Kanawa, not Fleming, not even Lotte Lehmann, has sounded so ravishing in this piece.
> 
> ...


Ah-men.

'Ravishing' is right.

Korngold should have written an opera just for her.






I always envision how awesome Korngold's _Constant Nymph_ overture would sound with Schwarzkopf's voice coming in at 0:26+.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

plumblossom said:


> It all boils down to personal tastes and preferences. A question like this is always going to generate a wide spectrum of answers.
> 
> Where Schwarzkopf's vocal timbre is concerned, I consider myself a moderate. Where her artistry and musicianship is concerned, I'm an admirer.


With me it's just the opposite. I think her voice was lovely just as sound; it's her interpretive style I don't care for. For my taste -- and I realize this is going to sound like a cliche, so I apologize -- she had a little too much "character" and not enough legato. Listening to her I've often found myself wishing that she would "sing" the line instead of "fussing" it. Again, it's a common complaint about Schwarzkopf, but I happen to agree with it.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> I adore Schwarzkopf's (please note no t) artistry _and_ her voice, the basic timbre of which I find absolutely ravishing. Just listen to her recording of Agathe's arias from *Der Freischutz*, the tone so pure and true, the legato line so firmly held.
> 
> I could find countless examples of her vocal sheen and beauty, but let me post just this one. Nobody, as far as I am concerned, not Te Kanawa, not Fleming, not even Lotte Lehmann, has sounded so ravishing in this piece.
> 
> ...


Yes, I completely agree with you as far as the "vocal sheen" and purity are concerned.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

absolutely! lush, velvety, elegant, multicolored. she could sound like a bright, feminine lyric soprano and then turn around and sound like a deep, dark dramatic soprano (ex: Verdi Requiem).


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

plumblossom said:


> To me her particular type of vocal timbre and temperament make her superb in portraying aristocratic, worldly and sophisticated ladies such as the Marschallin and the Countess Madeleine in Capriccio. But she is also capable of varying her tonal colours to portray spiteful, vengeful harridans like Donna Elvira in Don Giovanni.


^this. imo, her voice sounds aristocratic to the point of classist.....but in a good way


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

Let's be specific: listen for example to the beginning of her Salzburg '53 Wolf recital with Furtwangler (Orfeo) - Im Fruhling, end of second phrase: mein AND (Flü)gel: are those beautiful sounds?? No, they just ARE opaque and dry (technically, too much horizontal formation and uncovered chest voice), that's what I call her "witchy" sound, and they should be lovely sounds. And PLEASE, much of everything else sounds beautiful, it's true, and the interpretation and technique (live recording) are amazing as always, etc. etc. But she DID produce some ugly sounds (which of course became predominant with age, like with almost all human beings). 
As with Callas, there seems to be a phenomenon going on here to the extent that everything a great singer intends to produce as beautiful sound has to materialize as that. Well, many times, it just didn't.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> she could sound like a deep, dark dramatic soprano (ex: Verdi Requiem).


 Do you really hear that there? (I'm assuming you mean the Giulini recording, not the De Sabata, where she sounds like a _lirico-leggiero_ forcing her voice...)
That was a physical/sonic impossibility for her, as for any pure lyric soprano (which was what she was), presuposing a strange standard for deep, dramatic soprano.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

MANY APOLOGIES FOR THE TYPO: DAME SCHWARZKOPF (no 'T')


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

^ May the 'Schwarz' be with you.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I had no idea she was divisive.

She's at her best in lieder, IMO.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> Let's be specific: listen for example to the beginning of her Salzburg '53 Wolf recital with Furtwangler (Orfeo) - Im Fruhling, end of second phrase: mein AND (Flü)gel: are those beautiful sounds?? No, they just ARE opaque and dry (technically, too much horizontal formation and uncovered chest voice), that's what I call her "witchy" sound, and they should be lovely sounds. And PLEASE, much of everything else sounds beautiful, it's true, and the interpretation and technique (live recording) are amazing as always, etc. etc. But she DID produce some ugly sounds (which of course became predominant with age, like with almost all human beings).
> As with Callas, there seems to be a phenomenon going on here to the extent that everything a great singer intends to produce as beautiful sound has to materialize as that. Well, many times, it just didn't.


It seems to me that most singers produce "ugly sounds" _at times_; I don't think it's humanly possible to produce "beautiful sounds" _exclusively_. And then there's the obvious point that terms like "ugly" and "beautiful" are basically subjective, so that it's hard to determine definitively what is an ugly sound and what is a beautiful one. The important question, I think, is "Were _most_ of the sounds the singer produced 'ugly,' or were most of them 'beautiful'?" Most of the Schwarzkopf I have heard on recordings has been beautiful tonally, if not always to my taste stylistically.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

antoniolopes said:


> Let's be specific: listen for example to the beginning of her Salzburg '53 Wolf recital with Furtwangler (Orfeo) - Im Fruhling, end of second phrase: mein AND (Flü)gel: are those beautiful sounds?? No, they just ARE opaque and dry (technically, too much horizontal formation and uncovered chest voice), that's what I call her "witchy" sound, and they should be lovely sounds. And PLEASE, much of everything else sounds beautiful, it's true, and the interpretation and technique (live recording) are amazing as always, etc. etc. But she DID produce some ugly sounds (which of course became predominant with age, like with almost all human beings).
> As with Callas, there seems to be a phenomenon going on here to the extent that everything a great singer intends to produce as beautiful sound has to materialize as that. Well, many times, it just didn't.


If your objection is just that she had better and worse performances, I don't think that is too controversial.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> Let's be specific: listen for example to the beginning of her Salzburg '53 Wolf recital with Furtwangler (Orfeo) - Im Fruhling, end of second phrase: mein AND (Flü)gel: are those beautiful sounds?? No, they just ARE opaque and dry (technically, too much horizontal formation and uncovered chest voice), that's what I call her "witchy" sound, and they should be lovely sounds. And PLEASE, much of everything else sounds beautiful, it's true, and the interpretation and technique (live recording) are amazing as always, etc. etc. But she DID produce some ugly sounds (which of course became predominant with age, like with almost all human beings).
> As with Callas, there seems to be a phenomenon going on here to the extent that everything a great singer intends to produce as beautiful sound has to materialize as that. Well, many times, it just didn't.


Could Schwarzkopf produce ugly sounds? Undoubtedly yes. Would she be able to justify the use of those ugly sounds? Also undoubtedly yes. Above all, Schwarzkopf was an expressive singer, and an intelligent musician. If she made an ugly sound, you can bet your bottom dollar that she intended it to be so. Personally, I've always found uniformly beautiful voices dull and boring.

Incidentally, I don't find the introduction of chest voice on the word _Flugel_ in the least bit ugly and I have no doubt that it is a decision that she and Furtwangler would have taken together. Such was the nature of Schwarzkopf's art, and is no doubt the reason some often use the epithet _mannered_ to describe (or do I mean denigrate?) it.

I would reply to your last paragraph that neither Callas nor Schwarzkopf ever intended to _always_ produce beautiful sound, though they no doubt sought to produce _truthful_ sound, that is truthful to the emotion expressed. To quote Keates, "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> Do you really hear that there? (I'm assuming you mean the Giulini recording, not the De Sabata, where she sounds like a _lirico-leggiero_ forcing her voice...)
> That was a physical/sonic impossibility for her, as for any pure lyric soprano (which was what she was), presuposing a strange standard for deep, dramatic soprano.


I love Schwarzkopf's contribution to the Giulini Verdi *Requiem*, her singing so intelligently, musically and dramatically conceived, whilst admitting that it is probably not quite the voice Verdi had in mind. I have no doubt that, had he heard it however, he would have appreciated her response to both music and text. Nor does it prevent my enjoyment of more vocally entitled singers of the part, such as Leontyne Price, Tebaldi and Jessye Norman (in a live broadcast from Munich, conducted by Muti).


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

No, it's not. This was a completely random example, she was in her prime, and I wasn't talking about the performance in general.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

Steatopygous said:


> If your objection is just that she had better and worse performances, I don't think that is too controversial.


No, it's not. This was a completely random example, she was in her prime, and I wasn't talking about the performance in general.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

GregMitchell said:


> I love Schwarzkopf's contribution to the Giulini Verdi *Requiem*, her singing so intelligently, musically and dramatically conceived, whilst admitting that it is probably not quite the voice Verdi had in mind. I have no doubt that, had he heard it however, he would have appreciated her response to both music and text. Nor does it prevent my enjoyment of more vocally entitled singers of the part, such as Leontyne Price, Tebaldi and Jessye Norman (in a live broadcast from Munich, conducted by Muti).


Entirely agree, not at issue.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> No, it's not. This was a completely random example, she was in her prime, and I wasn't talking about the performance in general.


Sorry. I'm not sure what this is a response to.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

It was a reply to Steatopygous post just above.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> It was a reply to Steatopygous post just above.


Yes, seen that now. Thanks.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

antoniolopes said:


> Do you really hear that there? (*I'm assuming you mean the Giulini recording*, not the De Sabata, where she sounds like a _lirico-leggiero_ forcing her voice...)
> That was a physical/sonic impossibility for her, as for any pure lyric soprano (which was what she was), presuposing a strange standard for deep, dramatic soprano.


precisely. the first few minutes she sounds like Tebaldi with better phrasing.


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> precisely. the first few minutes she sounds like Tebaldi with better phrasing.


Sounding like Tebaldi, while indeed a compliment, is in contrast with sounding like a deep, dramatic soprano (Tebaldi started as a pure lyric soprano and evolved into a quasi lirico-spinto).


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

I have read Geoffrey Parsons and Gerald Moore on Schwarzkopf's voice. So many of my books didn't survive the recent house move so my summaries mightn't be exactly right. Parsons (who loved his "wonderful Lizzie") said she sang long after her voice went into a decline. Gerald Moore (who numbered her among his three "beloveds") despaired of her way of recording. Under the influence of her domineering husband, Schwarzkopf would record far too many takes - striving for perfection at the expense of freshness and beauty of sound. He compared her with Fischer-Dieskau who never attempted more than three takes.

I have ideas of my own too. To my ears the Edwin Fischer recording (1950, 1952) catches her voice at its sweetest. As she was born in 1915, and what with the war and her time off for tuberculosis, I think we missed the best of her sound. She also loved Wolf (me too!) and he encourages sopranos to sound screechy.


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## Antony (Nov 4, 2013)

antoniolopes said:


> Well, here is another "is it just me or..." posts: I really dislike Schwartzkopf's voice, no matter how technically well and expressively she sings. Too much of a nasal, "witchy" sound, neither transparency as in a light voice, nor body or warmth. Am I alone? (A note: the only recording I have heard of here that didn't sound like that is the Strauss 4 Last Songs, NOT the famous one, but the one with Ackermann).


Dear Antonio!!!

For me, If Maria Callas is about heat, emotion, euphoria...extremely feeling, (think about someone can burn a house to the ground in a moment of rage), Dame Schwarzkopf is about delicacy, fragile, fine taste and self control...(think about a crystal rose, a veil of dew on a rose early in the morning. Or When you walk in the wood in a beautiful autumn day, you see smokes on some chimney, and the smell of burned wood, you hear the crackling, not too much, just enough...that is, for me, the feeling everytime I listen to E.Schwarzkopf.

A perfect example is Der RosenKavalier with E.Schwarzkopf, Sena Jurinac, Anneliese Rothenberger ( Von Karajan). At the end of act 1, the few seconds when she took the small mirror, looked at it and saw the reflection of her...she put back the mirror (face down) on the table.. She did not sing anything, no music... a look at her face, how she act, this few seconds are the best, for me, to say how ...delicate, and sheer beauty of resignation! .. At the end of The RosenKavalier, when she walked out and leave Sophie and Octavian alone....the way she waved her hand, not crying, walked out, not too fast, not too low, no looking back..perfect definition of Class and Dignity.

Really Love her singing lieder of Schubert and Hugo Wolf!

However, it was not E.Schwarzkopf made me love the 4last songs of Strauss, it was Jessye Norman. Still, once I got it, and came back later to those songs , and this time, with E.Schwarzkopf, well, I felt in love with her way of singing right away.

Maybe E.Schwarzkopf always kept with her the advice of her first teacher - be noble, my child -

Hope that help!


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## antoniolopes (Feb 28, 2010)

jenspen said:


> I have read Geoffrey Parsons and Gerald Moore on Schwarzkopf's voice. So many of my books didn't survive the recent house move so my summaries mightn't be exactly right. Parsons (who loved his "wonderful Lizzie") said she sang long after her voice went into a decline. Gerald Moore (who numbered her among his three "beloveds") despaired of her way of recording. Under the influence of her domineering husband, Schwarzkopf would record far too many takes - striving for perfection at the expense of freshness and beauty of sound. He compared her with Fischer-Dieskau who never attempted more than three takes.
> 
> I have ideas of my own too. To my ears the Edwin Fischer recording (1950, 1952) catches her voice at its sweetest. As she was born in 1915, and what with the war and her time off for tuberculosis, I think we missed the best of her sound. She also loved Wolf (me too!) and he encourages sopranos to sound screechy.


Enlightning. Thanks.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Reading these criticisms is illuminating and I understand where some of them are coming from.

But, come on....


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> Reading these criticisms is illuminating and I understand where some of them are coming from.
> 
> But, come on....


Just beautiful. Voice and expression in perfect harmony, and both voice and expression in perfect harmony with her pianist.


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## Antony (Nov 4, 2013)

FYI: In the box set of E.Schwarzkopf: the perfect Prima Donna, there are CDs of lieder of her singing with Edwin Fischer, Gerald Moore, Geoffrey Parsons and Wilhelm Furtwangler.


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