# Futuristic-sounding avant garde style classical music pieces



## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

The only one that fits the bill that i know of is “mephisto waltz no.1” by lizst. Anyone know of any others?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm not sure how that Mephisto Waltz is futuristic or avant-garde, and so this is not likely what you're looking for, but for me, this piece fits the title of this thread to a tee:


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, Liszt's Mephisto Waltzes aren't meant to be 'futuristic' per se.

Futurism as an art movement of the early 20th century had musical examples too - some of the most well-known highlights worth hearing are

- Avramov - Symphony of Factory Sirens
- Russolo, all works
- Mossolov - Iron Foundry, piano music, 1st Piano Concerto
- Prokofiev - The Pas d'Acier, Symphony no.2, Piano Concertos generally, Skythian Suite (some of these works are more folkloristic, but they have sort-of-machinery content)
- Popov, Symphony no.1 (ditto)
- Varese, all works (again, with varying inspiration)
- Villa Lobos, New York Skyline

(etc.)


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## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

joen_cph said:


> Yes, Liszt's Mephisto Waltzes aren't meant to be 'futuristic' per se.
> 
> Futurism as an art movement of the early 20th century had musical examples too - some of the most well-known highlights worth hearing are
> 
> ...


Whether the Mephisto waltz no.1 was meant to sound futuristic is not the point. The fact is that it is the only classical music piece in existence that is avant garde and futuristic-sounding.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

ricky3 said:


> Whether the Mephisto waltz no.1 was meant to sound futuristic is not the point. The fact is that it is the only classical music piece in existence that is avant garde and futuristic-sounding.


what about Rebels Les Elements?


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## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

Jacck said:


> what about Rebels Les Elements?


Have you ever heard mephisto waltz no.1? It would be considered the most advanced of avant garde if it were composed in 2020. The fact that it was composed in the 1800's proves that this man liszt was lehavdil a musical "prophet," lehavdil l'elef lehavdils. Edit: of course he wasn't an actual navi. I'm just saying this piece he wrote is so ahead of its time it's scary.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

ricky3 said:


> Have you ever heard mephisto waltz no.1? It would be considered the most advanced of avant garde if it were composed in 2020. The fact that it was composed in the 1800's proves that this man liszt was lehavdil a musical "prophet," lehavdil l'elef lehavdils. Edit: of course he wasn't an actual navi. I'm just saying this piece he wrote is so ahead of its time it's scary.


I am on your side. I have said here many times, that Liszt was the most innovative composer of the 19th century. Extremely versatile, experimental. Far ahead even of Beethoven imho. His Christus oratorio is totally underrated masterpiece


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## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

Jacck said:


> I am on your side. I have said here many times, that Liszt was the most innovative composer of the 19th century. Extremely versatile, experimental. Far ahead even of Beethoven imho. His Christus oratorio is totally underrated masterpiece


I have just never heard anything as futuristic-sounding as Mephisto Waltz no.1, it's almost like Liszt had ruach hakodesh to peer into the distant future. Of course I'm exaggerating and as a goy he had no connection to kedusha whatsoever, but you get my point.


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## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

ricky3 said:


> I have just never heard anything as futuristic-sounding as Mephisto Waltz no.1, it's almost like Liszt had ruach hakodesh to peer into the distant future. Of course I'm exaggerating and as a goy he had no connection to kedusha whatsoever, but you get my point.


specifically the part starting at about 0:48 and ending at about 1:00


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

In a different way from the 19th century guys, the 18th century ones were also "innovative":

In the second of his 1931 essays on 'National Music', Schoenberg acknowledged Bach and Mozart as his principal teachers and told his readers why.
"My teachers were primarily Bach and Mozart, and secondarily Beethoven, Brahms, and Wagner."

(I think that Beethoven was a huge source of inspiration to Bartok and Shostakovich, but unlike Bach and Mozart, he doesn't seem to have had the "sense of wit" to use all 12 notes of the chromatic scale to form melody.)

Schoenberg called the B minor fugue from Bach WTC book1, the first twelve-tone music.






"Strict Serial Technique in Classical Music" by Hans Keller is an interesting read regarding this topic. ( It's only 12 pages. You can read it online for free if you register)

Here's an excerpt from the article:
"we note that K 428 in E♭ is another quartet of which the youthful Schoenberg had acquired an intimate, inside knowledge. The canonic opening of the first movement's development section (Ex. 3), which exposes the twelve notes within the narrowest space, is a mature example of strict serialism: an anti- (tri-) tonal row of three notes and its mirror forms (BS, I, R, RI) revolves both horizontally and vertically underneath the rotations of its own segmental subordinate row, which is a series in extremest miniature consisting of two notes at the interval of a minor second.








This is purest Schoenberg. In a forthcoming Mozart symposium, I am in fact trying to demonstrate that the passacaglia from the chamber-musical Pierrot lunaire is actually if unconsciously modelled on this development. At the same time, the latter's technique looks far into Schoenberg's own future, down to the (pan)tonal serial technique of the Ode to Napoleon. Beside unifying the anti-harmonic passage as such, that is to say, Mozart's strict serial method has to conduct it back into its wider, harmonic context, whence the series continue to rotate down to the perfect C minor cadence, every note of which remains serially determined."










"Schoenberg now proudly described himself as Mozart's pupil - and the final movement of the Suite, the 'Gigue', comes close to explicit homage to the G major Gigue, KV 574, in which Mozart at his most neo-Baroque and most harmonically chromatic seems almost to anticipate elements of Schoenberg's serial method." ( Arnold Schoenberg, By Mark Berry, Page 135 )


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)




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## ricky3 (Oct 14, 2020)

ok i'm changing this thread to just be about mephisto waltz no.1 and how futuristic/avant garde it sounds from 0:48 to 1:00 in the link i posted above. please no more submissions of other music


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

ricky3 said:


> Whether the Mephisto waltz no.1 was meant to sound futuristic is not the point. The fact is that it is the only classical music piece in existence that is avant garde and futuristic-sounding.


You've made your point.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

ricky3 said:


> The only one that fits the bill that i know of is "mephisto waltz no.1" by lizst. Anyone know of any others?


The challenge here is to grasp your concept of avant garde, but given that the Mephisto Waltz seems fall in the category, how about Hindemith's suite


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

In the 1920s, American avant-garde composer George Antheil was embraced by such groups as the Dadaists, Futurists and modernists. It is reported that at his early concerts Antheil often took a gun out of his pocket and put it on the piano to emphasize the rebellious spirit of his music. His works such as _Airplane Sonata_, _Death of the Machines_, and the 30-minute _Ballet mécanique_ seem to fit the bill as well or better than any others I can think of. Antheil gained a rather scandalous reputation for trying to imitate mechanical and industrial sounds on a completely unusual set of musical instruments. _Ballet mécanique_, which caused yet another Parisian riot after its premiere in that city, was the first piece to synchronize machines with human players and to exploit the difference between what machines and humans can play.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Jacck said:


> you are quite obnoxious for a new member here, aren't you? Is there a block function to place you on a black list?


Yes, there is a block function, and I've already used it.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

ricky3 said:


> The only one that fits the bill that i know of is "mephisto waltz no.1" by lizst. Anyone know of any others?


Considering that there was a whole century and half of music after it, no, it definitely isn't the only one that fits the bill. I'd say that Liszt himself wrote more progressive music.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

ricky3 said:


> Whether the Mephisto waltz no.1 was meant to sound futuristic is not the point. The fact is that it is the only classical music piece in existence that is avant garde and futuristic-sounding.


Bruh.

jfbkgdbgd


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

ricky3 said:


> Have you ever heard mephisto waltz no.1? *It would be considered the most advanced of avant garde if it were composed in 2020.*


LOL. That's funny.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Jacck said:


> I am on your side. I have said here many times, that Liszt was the most innovative composer of the 19th century. Extremely versatile, experimental. Far ahead even of Beethoven imho. His Christus oratorio is totally underrated masterpiece


I can agree Liszt is noteworthy in that regard. I think Ravel was inspired by this.





(I'm not really submitting this piece of music for the thread topic, I'm just replying to Jacck's post)


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

ricky3 said:


> Whether the Mephisto waltz no.1 was meant to sound futuristic is not the point. The fact is that it is the only classical music piece in existence that is avant garde and futuristic-sounding.


Oh...

So that is a _fact_. Good to know. 

Funny, to me it sounds much more like you are voicing a subjective personal opinion.

Also interesting to me is, I only listen to music of the 20th and 21st century, well beyond the era that Liszt wrote the Mephisto waltz, and much of it is both avant-garde and futuristic, in my opinion. And I would bet many people here would agree.

Now, to be clear, I am not saying that the Mephisto waltz was not avant-garde and futuristic for it's time. But to claim that there weren't avant-garde and futuristic pieces from before or after the Mephisto waltz no. 1, would require a bit more to convince me besides your personal opinion.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

Stravinsky's sonata and concerto for two pianos came to mind as I listened to that excerpt. Aside from that, I think Messiaen is the main composer to evoke a futuristic and cosmic feeling for me. I often think his music could have fit 2001 A Space Odyssey just as well as Ligeti's.

Maybe every movie about the future should just use the mephisto waltz though, since that is the only answer.


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