# Ear training trouble



## kev222

Hi, I am a beginner trying to develop relative pitch. I have been singing solfege for months. So far only the first 3 syllables Do Re Mi. I can sing the perfectly in any order and any root within my (pathetic) vocal range. I have verified this with a digital tuner.

However I cannot hear the scale degrees, I am unable to transcribe the simplest of melodies (single octave, do re mi only, the root as a bass note under the melody and the root played before the melody for reference). barely ever get it right.

I have searched far and wide online for anyone else with this problem but it seems I am alone! Any ideas? I don't see that continuing to sing the notes will help and it's impossible to make the listening exercises any simpler.

Please feel free to flat out tell me I have no hope, I have all but given up on the idea of ever having a good ear at this point, you'd be putting me out of my misery in fact!


----------



## Bettina

Try listening for intervals rather than scale degrees. You should learn to differentiate between seconds (steps) and thirds (skips). Once you can hear the difference between these two intervals, then you'll be able to notate any melody that is based on do re mi. Seconds and thirds are the only two intervals that could possibly occur in such a melody.


----------



## kev222

Thanks. That is a good idea. I will try that.


----------



## Minor Sixthist

I will have to second Bettina avidly here.

Intervals will truly be the foundation of your success in ear training. Melodic/harmonic dictation and sight singing, whether number or solfege, fixed do or not, is so dependent on your ability to learn and become quick at identifying your intervals, and it will help you immensely to start training yourself.

Many people start by familiarizing themselves with a tune associated with each interval, e.g. Star Wars theme for perfect fifth, Brahms lullaby for minor third, and NBC theme for major sixth . . . there are lots you could consider with each one. You could do a simple google search like "musical interval terms" to find bunch of common tunes for each one.

If you could start practicing memorizing those tunes, you'll soon realize you have a grasp on the intervals. I remember the first days being introduced to intervals and telling myself, I could never learn all these, I'll just wing it on the tests . . . honestly, for me, the period between being clueless on them and being able to identify them in less than an instant when they're played is a blur for me. The transition from tunes to just knowing them with as much certainly as your birthday or the alphabet was pretty seamless. 
It'll become more natural with practice. For most you'll drop the need for a tune, and like I said, it could become as automatic as the alphabet. They become very distinct. P4 is dignified. M6 is jovial and pleasant, and m2 is Jaws. nah, Dvorak 9. Take your pick.

A site I recommend: teoria.com. it's great for practicing intervals. You could set up quizzes on intervals, pretty sure you could have them played or see them on the staff. It's pretty helpful. 

Regarding relative pitch, all I know is I one day realized I was able to find and sing A without external help. I attribute to being in so many orchestras that habitually tune to A, and I guess it started sticking with me. That combined with relative pitch is essentially as effective as perfect for me. Just a note. Teaching yourself to always hear a note might be more difficult.

Hope this helps. Intervals will get you far if you give it time!!


----------



## jegreenwood

I found a iPhone App called Tenuto that will quiz you on it.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenuto/id459313476?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo=4


----------



## Pugg

kev222 said:


> Thanks. That is a good idea. I will try that.


Please do let us know how you get on.


----------



## brianvds

Minor Sixthist said:


> If you could start practicing memorizing those tunes, you'll soon realize you have a grasp on the intervals. I remember the first days being introduced to intervals and telling myself, I could never learn all these, I'll just wing it on the tests . . . honestly, for me, the period between being clueless on them and being able to identify them in less than an instant when they're played is a blur for me. The transition from tunes to just knowing them with as much certainly as your birthday or the alphabet was pretty seamless.


Some years ago I became interested in ear training. There is a piece of free software that helps with interval recognition (I can't remember the name or whether it is still available). I played around with it a bit and very quickly became good at instantly recognizing intervals.

The trick I never could master was recognizing them on printed sheet music. How on earth does one go about that!? There doesn't seem to be any kind of consistent pattern; the moment you throw in some key signatures and accidentals, it becomes a nightmare. The ability that some musicians have, to take an orchestral score and audiate it at a glance, seems to me close to supernatural: I never mastered the ability to do it even with the simplest of tunes.


----------



## Miggypiggy

teoria.com was already suggested. I would also suggest tonedear.com/


----------



## Larkenfield

If you are able to sing in-tune, and you clearly know that you are able to sing in-tune, you should be able to master relative pitch with practice. Sometimes it's a matter of conditioning and developing pitch memory. If not, it may be more important for you to first develop pitch matching, such as hearing a note on the piano or a tuner and matching it as accurately as possible in voice. It usually costs, but sometimes working with a voice teacher can make all the difference in the world, even if it's only an occasional lesson. In any event, you sound motivated and inspired and you could end up surprising yourself.


----------



## Jacred

jegreenwood said:


> I found a iPhone App called Tenuto that will quiz you on it.
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tenuto/id459313476?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo=4


musictheory.net is useful too, if you don't want to get the Tenuto app


----------



## JeffD

Bettina said:


> Try listening for intervals rather than scale degrees.


Unless one has perfect pitch, which very few people have, this is all one can do. Recognize that two notes are a third apart, but not what either note is or where in the scale they are intended.

Now if you tell me this note here is the tonic, and if I can hear the intervals (i'm ok at it, nothing special) I can tell you the scale degree. But if you don't tell me the tonic, all I know is the interval.


----------



## Sekhar

Yes, I second using Teoria exercises (intervals, melodies, etc.). But while these kind of exercises on sites and software will help, IMO the progress will be rather slow, erratic, and somewhat frustrating/de-motivating. I strongly suggest taking a musicianship class at a local community college: there is no substitute for actually singing and listening alongside other music students, and I think you will make much better and lasting progress that way.


----------

