# classical composers you hate whit a passion, a post dedicated to haters



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

You either like ,dosen like or hate so this mean 3 choices

I had many lisen of *Arthur Honegger *and guess what my love and hate turn to hate
to be fair i like only one movement of lithurgie symphony no 3. movement 2 can be moving but the
rest annoy me, and please dont say le roi david is awesome, le seigneur est mon berger ,im so goeing to hell for bashing this work if there are fanboys of him.

But i value i respect honnesty, so be honnest about your hatred and explain why you hate them so mutch, not liking is like mild hatred it dosen count.

:tiphat: have a nice day


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

There already is a worst composer thread and I hate no composers. If I don´t like their music I just don´t listen to it.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2015)

Let's just cover all the bases for what half the forum is thinking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_20th-century_classical_composers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_21st-century_classical_composers


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Almost nobody here hates all of the 20th century. Why do people keep repeating the myth that people hate the"20th century"? Mahler, Strauss, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Ravel, Sibelius, Vaughan-Williams, Shostakovich, Bartok, Prokofiev, Stravinsky - all are 20th century composers....


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Dim7 said:


> Almost nobody here hates all of the 20th century. Why do people keep repeating the myth that people hate the"20th century"? Mahler, Strauss, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Sibelius, Vaughan-Williams, Shostakovich, Bartok, Prokofiev, Stravinsky - all are 20th century composers....


As long as there is one....

He also linked to a list of 21st century composers, who are probably for the most part victims of ignorance rather than hate.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Even the most hated guys - Schoenberg and Cage, I'd guess - are actually more popular than most Renaissance composers. It is a lot easier to find a fan of Schoenberg and Cage than of Ockeghem or Pierre de la Rue.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

very true science, i would agree to this statement


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

science said:


> Even the most hated guys - Schoenberg and Cage, I'd guess - are actually more popular than most Renaissance composers. It is a lot easier to find a fan of Schoenberg and Cage than of Ockeghem or Pierre de la Rue.


Yes, but Ockeghem and de la Rue aren't hated. They aren't blamed for the downfall of music. They don't have to suffer the waves of idiotic criticism and accusations of atonality (although their music isn't any more tonal than Schoenberg's). They aren't repeatedly joked about as if their very existence is something to be mocked.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Sloe said:


> There already is a worst composer thread and I hate no composers. If I don´t like their music I just don´t listen to it.


Yeah, I don't get this "hate" business. Why be _angry_ about trivia?

ETA: I'm not too clear on where the corollary of hate, victimhood, is coming from either.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

I'll never pass up an opportunity to proclaim my utter dislike of of Schumann & Liszt.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Even in my slightly more energetic youth I found it hard to generate a quality of hate that could be described as "with a passion".

These days, the only thing that gets me riled up is reckless driving.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Fugue Meister said:


> I'll never pass up an opportunity to proclaim my utter dislike of of Schumann & Liszt.


Oh, go ahead and pass a few of them up, why don't you?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Mahlerian said:


> Yes, but Ockeghem and de la Rue aren't hated. They aren't blamed for the downfall of music. They don't have to suffer the waves of idiotic criticism and accusations of atonality (although their music isn't any more tonal than Schoenberg's). They aren't repeatedly joked about as if their very existence is something to be mocked.


I acknowledged that they were the most hated guys, and I know that what you say is true, so I didn't deserve this harangue.

Edit: And also, I have often promoted the music of modernist composers, including Cage and Schoenberg.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

I hate quite a few, but find that talking about it usually just helps the objects of my hate (so I'm not naming names - though I named a couple the other day in a different thread here). Hatred is basically an acknowledgement of _some_ kind of greatness


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Epilogue said:


> I hate quite a few, but find that talking about it usually just helps the objects of my hate (so I'm not naming names - though I named a couple the other day in a different thread here). Hatred is basically an acknowledgement of _some_ kind of greatness


Among the composers I've seen hated rather fervently are Eric Whitacre, John Tavener, John Williams, Karl Jenkins, Jennifer Higdon, and Johann Strauss II.

Beating them all put together, however, is Yanni.

I really don't know.


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## padraic (Feb 26, 2015)

I've not encountered one yet.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

Tavener is one of those composers for whom I can't quite figure out whether I hate him - which would imply that he has at least some significant degree of talent - or just hate people for liking him.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Epilogue said:


> Tavener is one of those composers for whom I can't quite figure out whether I hate him - which would imply that he has at least some significant degree of talent - or just hate people for liking him.


Incomprehensible to me either way.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

"Hate" is a word I reserve for things like war, greed, pedophilia, etc. But a composer I find annoying enough to avoid listening to him is Vivaldi.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

@MarkW That makes as much sense to me as reserving "love" for peace, generosity, consensual sex.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

If I don't like the music of certain composers, I do not use enough energy to 'hate' them. I just ignore them.

At worst, I feel annoyed when I hear music by one of these composers.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Epilogue said:


> @MarkW That makes as much sense to me as reserving "love" for peace, generosity, consensual sex.


Love is harmless; hate is next to murder.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

science said:


> Love is harmless


Oooooooooh boy, _no_.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

These kinds of threads make me wonder what is the purpose of it all. So, when we "hate" a certain composer, do we get some sort of thrill if someone says, "I hate them, too"?

Do we just have so much internal anger we feel it necessary to vent?

All I see is some people "hate" some composers about whom I am totally indifferent. Some hate composers I love (I.e. Schumann, Vivaldi).

So, thanks for sharing your "hate".

I'm sure we're all much better off for it.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

this has the purpose of fooling around, and expressing someone opinion, some people will pretend they like em all , i also agree hate is a strong word... but i try to infuse some hidden humor Inside, second degree.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

People generally "hate" music only if they feel it's being forced on them in some way. Otherwise they'll merely be indifferent.

This explains, for example, the phenomenon of Mozart-haters.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> People generally "hate" music only if they feel it's being forced on them in some way. Otherwise they'll merely be indifferent.
> 
> .


I hate music where I feel the composer is forcing himself on me, bullying me into feeling a certain way - influencing me without integrity. I feel like this about quite a bit of romantic music, I see it as a major failing of romanticism.


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## SteveSherman (Jan 9, 2014)

As Reggie Jackson (American baseball player) said in a different context, "They don't boo nobodies."


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

'Hate' is a strong word. I don't hate any composer but I am not fond of the minimalists.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

I like my words like I like my women: Strong and polyvalent.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

I dislike Alma Deutscher. Come at me with hatchets, I'm ready.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I've encountered enough contemporary composers personally to hate one or two, but they're such obscure pipsqueaks that only Some_Guy might have heard of them.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

@Aramis Oooh, what are their names?


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

As others have said, hate seems kind of a strong word for composers whose music I just don't like.

What comes to mind are three men whose music I both don't care for nor understand the popularity of:
- Hector Berlioz
- Gustav Holst
- Carl Orff

Come to think of it, from the music by these dudes I do know, it seems they're all One-Hit-Wonders [of course we can all agree to disagree on the subjective quality of an artist]


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

If I don't find something to be appealing, I don't listen to it again (for a good long while, anyway, until some new spark reignites enough interest to give it another try). It never gets to the point of hatred.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> As others have said, hate seems kind of a strong word for composers whose music I just don't like.
> 
> What comes to mind are three men whose music I both don't care for nor understand the popularity of:
> - Hector Berlioz
> ...


I would not call Hector Berlioz and Gustav Holst one hit wonders.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

Cosmos said:


> Hector Berlioz... One-Hit-Wonders


Yeah, no.



Sloe said:


> I would not call Hector Berlioz and Gustav Holst one hit wonders.


Well, Berlioz just isn't, but why not Holst?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Epilogue said:


> Yeah, no.
> 
> Well, Berlioz just isn't, but why not Holst?


Saint Pauls suite, The Planets.
These are two.
I also hear other music by Gustav Holst quite often.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

Thank you for elaborating. This is the first time I've even heard _of_ the St. Paul's suite.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm surprised nobody is reacting negatively to my public confession of dislike for Alma Deutscher. The modern "child prodigy" concept just makes me feel even more inferior and disgusted with myself than I already am.


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## Epilogue (Sep 20, 2015)

The only reason I have low expectations for Alma Deutscher is because she's English.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Cosmos said:


> As others have said, hate seems kind of a strong word for composers whose music I just don't like.
> 
> What comes to mind are three men whose music I both don't care for nor understand the popularity of:
> - Hector Berlioz
> ...


whether you like these composers or not is entirely up to you (and of little interest to me) but to suggest Berlioz is a 'one-hit wonder' demonstrates considerable ignorance of the quality of his output


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

There are some Composers whose Music is touted by their devotees that I have tried to appreciate and concluded that I never will
Get. Bax, Medtner, and Glazunov lead the list. I don't hate them, but I regret the loss of my time and money.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Triplets said:


> There are some Composers whose Music is touted by their devotees that I have tried to appreciate and concluded that I never will
> Get. Bax, Medtner, and Glazunov lead the list. I don't hate them, but I regret the loss of my time and money.


The key point that a number of us are trying to make in this thread is that surely we should bin 'hate' as a term to use when talking of music we don't appreciate.

Quite frankly, simple *lists* of composers that member 'x' dislikes or doesn't respond to appear to be a waste of reading time


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I hate no classical composers, but I hate anachronism.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I'm surprised nobody is reacting negatively to my public confession of dislike for Alma Deutscher. The modern "child prodigy" concept just makes me feel even more inferior and disgusted with myself than I already am.


But do you dislike _her_, or is it what she represents?

It seems to me you dislike the latter, which isn't unreasonable. If you actually dislike _her_, then... yeah, be disgusted with yourself for being so insecure that you feel the need to publicly dislike a little girl. :devil:


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> But do you dislike _her_, or is it what she represents?
> 
> It seems to me you dislike the latter, which isn't unreasonable. If you actually dislike _her_, then... yeah, be disgusted with yourself for being so insecure that you feel the need to publicly dislike a little girl. :devil:


But I am a little girl.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> But I am a little girl.


Older than Deutcher, anyway. Everything's relative, including relativity.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

There is music I love, music that I like, and music that I am indifferent to. The stuff I'm indifferent to, I don't listen to.
If it came on the radio - I wouldn't throw the radio across the room. I can't imagine hating a composer with a passion.
Pop performers are different because sometimes a particular voice can rub you the wrong way.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I suppose I can't really blame him.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

Blancrocher said:


> I suppose I can't really blame him.


I hate it when people judge composers on only one work.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I hate it when people judge composers on only one work.


I think he just did it for humorous purposes. Heck, he doesn't even hate the entire work--just the cello part.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm sure I would like Bach better if he hadn't been pushed at me as God for most of my life. The worst offender was probably TIME magazine which once plastered him on its cover. Fortunately I'm gradually overcoming my decades-long antipathy.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

My elaboration: I've heard his other "great" works and just don't care for them, and from my perspective I see more talk about Symphonie Fantastique than the others. Again, just my opinion, I listened, shrugged them off, didn't hear the quality everyone else seems to


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> My elaboration: I've heard his other "great" works and just don't care for them, and from my perspective I see more talk about Symphonie Fantastique than the others. Again, just my opinion, I listened, shrugged them off, didn't hear the quality everyone else seems to


Well, it *is* his most famous work, and if you don't like it, you don't like it. But calling Berlioz a one-hit wonder isn't correct.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

geralmar said:


> I'm sure I would like Bach better if he hadn't been pushed at me as God for most of my life. The worst offender was probably TIME magazine which once plastered him on its cover. Fortunately I'm gradually overcoming my decades-long antipathy.


You're fortunate not to have this problem with classical music in general.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The key point that a number of us are trying to make in this thread is that surely we should bin 'hate' as a term to use when talking of music we don't appreciate.
> 
> Quite frankly, simple *lists* of composers that member 'x' dislikes or doesn't respond to appear to be a waste of reading time


So sorry to have wasted 5 seconds of your life and that I didn't get the 'official' vibe of the thread that you and others established.
Perhaps you could place a tag on each thread defining what the intent of the thread is, regardless of what the title says, so that frivolous posts will not trouble your Cerevral Cortex.


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

I have a rather burning hate towards Liszt.
I haven't heard enough of his works ,but I have hated the few pieces I've heard (Love Dream was beautiful though).
I can feel is arrogance and will to just show his virtuosity. Also from what I've read about him, he was really a terrible person, so I really hate him personally.
One time when I was listening to the radio I heard a piece that I didn't know, and i just hated it. It was lacking all musicality. I was so curious to hear who is the composer so i listened until the end-and you can guess it was one of Liszt's Paganini's variations.


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## Gustav Mahler (Dec 3, 2014)

Also, I don't like Johann Strauss II that much either.
He is very overrated, and I can see why-he music is sweet, full of joy and easy to listen to.
He didn't really compose serious pieces. Also if you ask me, waltzes are the easiest to compose-you are already given a kind of "weight", it is enough to add a banal melody and it will still sound okay. I urge you to try it on the piano or through singing. 
There are some genius waltzes-Shostakovich's waltzes from the Jazz suites for example.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I can't be bothered to care about your opinion on Liszt's music, but I'm curious to know why you think he was a terrible person?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> I'm surprised nobody is reacting negatively to my pueetblic confession of dislike for Alma Deutscher. The modern "child prodigy" concept just makes me feel even more inferior and disgusted with myself than I already am.


I Do not like Alma Deutschers music that much either but since this forum is the only place I notice here I Do not bother about her. The same with noise music or what it should be called. It is worse when I have to listen to some minimalist music for 2 hours or Villa Lobos. It is boring.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Some time ago there was a voting game on another forum titled "Composers who definitely will NOT be on your desert island iPod." One composer took 1st place by a wide margin.


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

DeepR said:


> I can't be bothered to care about your opinion on Liszt's music, but I'm curious to know why you think he was a terrible person?


Perhaps because he was a serial adulterer as a young man? And he supported Wagner as well?



KenOC said:


> Some time ago there was a voting game on another forum titled "Composers who definitely will NOT be on your desert island iPod." One composer took 1st place by a wide margin.


Lemme guess, it's Cage?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Lemme guess, it's Cage?


No................ I'm really not at liberty to say, because if I do a certain member here will be all over me, for reasons too tiresome to explain. But a hint: A horribly and confusedly dyslexic music lover might spell his name EWNREB.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

KenOC said:


> No................ I'm really not at liberty to say, because if I do a certain member here will be all over me, for reasons too tiresome to explain. But a hint: A horribly and confusedly dyslexic music lover might spell his name EWNREB.


Webern. I can't believe you don't like Webern. Consider yourself a marked man, KenOC.

:tiphat: :lol:


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2015)

KenOC said:


> No................ I'm really not at liberty to say, because if I do a certain member here will be all over me, for reasons too tiresome to explain. But a hint: A horribly and confusedly dyslexic music lover might spell his name EWNREB.


If this is the forum you've referenced before, I'm not remotely surprised. I think I recall their top 100 works of the 20th century having like one German work, period. I've heard farts in church that were less embarrassing.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

nathanb said:


> If this is the forum you've referenced before, I'm not remotely surprised. I think I recall their top 100 works of the 20th century having like one German work, period. I've heard farts in church that were less embarrassing.


Well, you might want to count again. But it's for sure that the Russkies kicked some serious Kraut behinds in the 20th century. As soon as Schoenberg shouted, "I have made a discovery that will assure the primacy of German music for 100 years," the game was up. Even Mahler rolled his eyes, which was difficult, him being dead and all.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Morimur said:


> Webern. I can't believe you don't like Webern. Consider yourself a marked man, KenOC.


Who said I don't like Webern? I never even met him.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Abraham Lincoln said:


> Perhaps because he was a serial adulterer as a young man? And he supported Wagner as well?


Extremely low level sins, as far as these go.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> Extremely low level sins, as far as these go.


Liszt was also quite an Anti Semite, but that is considered fashionable again...


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Triplets said:


> Liszt was also quite an Anti Semite, but that is considered fashionable again...


I'm curious about this. Alan Walker in his biography says that, although Liszt's support for Wagner in the "War of the Romantics" tarred him with guilt by association, "The charge that Liszt himself harboured anti-Semitic feelings will not withstand scrutiny. There is not a single recorded comment from Liszt that would allow us to brand him as a racist."
In a footnote Walker says "That has not prevented the charge from being made, however. Liszt was accused publicly of being an anti-Semite by the Hungarian critic Sagittarius in his pamphlet _Franz Liszt über die Juden_. The source of the charge went back to certain passages in Liszt's book _Des Bohémiens_, some of which are worthy of Wagner's pen. We know today that these pages were actually written by Princess Carolyne. [Walker subsequently discusses this in more detail] It remains to be added that Liszt was extremely unfortunate in this matter. A number of people to whom he felt closest on this earth were demonstrable racists. To the name of Wagner we must add those of Princess Carolyne, Cosima Liszt, and Hans von Bülow".

So I'm wondering what is Walker not telling us?


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