# Moonlight Sonata is much more depressing than Chopin's Nocturne no 20. Who disagrees?



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

Moonlight Sonata is much more depressing than Chopin's Nocturne no 20. Who disagrees?

I am listening to both pieces in a depressed mood and drunk at the same time and I say Moonlight Sonata is much more depressing than Chopin's nocturne no 20. Who disagrees?


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I find neither piece depressing (and I take it you mean just the 1st movement of the sonata).


----------



## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

And Adagio in G minor is even more depressing than Moonlight Sonata.

I'd say that Adagio in G minor > Moonight Sonata > Chopin's Nocture No 20

The least depression one of all is Chopin's Nocturne No 20.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Are you sure you mean 'depressing' as in making one sad or down. That wasn't the intent of the composers (to make one depressed).


----------



## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

I'd say the OP's state of mind and inebriation has something to do with it.


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

How could they possibly depress you when you stated that you were already depressed before listening to them? Perhaps they are a different experience when you are sober, and the world takes on a brighter more serene color when you are not drinking. There are AA meetings in Turkey. Best wishes.

https://alcoholics-anonymous.eu/meetings/english-speaking-group-of-aa-2/


----------



## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Neither is more depressing than this piece:






Of course, if you insist on listening to sad music while depressed, may I suggest Tom Lehrer's Masochism Tango!


----------



## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Room2201974 said:


> Neither is more depressing than this piece:


To be fair it's a good movement from an otherwise rather dull symphony.


----------



## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

I think Chopin's Prelude in C minor is sadder than any of his nocturnes.



DaveM said:


> Are you sure you mean 'depressing' as in making one sad or down. That wasn't the intent of the composers (to make one depressed).


How do you know that? If a composer writes to please, well, there's a great deal of pleasure in sadness and depression.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Gallus said:


> I think Chopin's Prelude in C minor is sadder than any of his nocturnes.
> 
> How do you know that? If a composer writes to please, well, there's a great deal of pleasure in sadness and depression.


Hmm, that raises the question as to why people spend so much on drugs to prevent them.


----------



## BiscuityBoyle (Feb 5, 2018)

Room2201974 said:


> Neither is more depressing than this piece:


The most quintessentially Brahmsian piece, all light sadness with hints of pent-up passion...

Incidentally, the OP is genuinely hilarious.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The only music that is truly depressing is that written half-heartedly for money alone. And then, the music itself is hardly as depressing as the composer. Alas ....


----------



## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I challenge anyone to find a work more depressing than this:


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

SONNET CLV said:


> The only music that is truly depressing is that written half-heartedly for money alone. And then, the music itself is hardly as depressing as the composer. Alas ....


I suppose the composer should have kept silent and simply starved to death, without bothering us with his/her efforts to survive. Do I have that right?


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> I challenge anyone to find a work more depressing than this:


I hear this in an entirely different and positive light. "He is alone in his heaven... and in his love." This is not a song of sadness and there's an unmistakable sense of peace and calm that underlies it... He's simply lost to the tumult of the world and being "alone" is not the same as being cut-off from others or isolated as another possible misinterpretation. He's completely at peace with himself and the music arises out of a serenity that can be heard in so many of his other works, including the slow movements of his symphonies. Let's not anyone project something onto the composer that has nothing to do with the poem or the peaceful calm of this lovely setting. There's no complaint in it. Being "dead to the world" means being detached and unconcerned about the world, and actually, it sounds like he's enjoying himself and the peacefulness of the moment.


----------



## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> I challenge anyone to find a work more depressing than this:


Too luxurious with the strings. That to me sounds like your girlfriend has just dumped you and you're upset and feeling a bit sorry for yourself, but you know deep down that everything's fine and when you think about it she wasn't all that great anyway.






Now this CD by Froberger (thanks to Mandryka for the recommendation) is the closest I've heard in music to the feeling a few days after an MDMA binge, when all the serotonin has been sucked out of your brain as if by a vacuum cleaner, making all things feel dull and tasteless and you're lying in bed thinking "what am I doing with my life?", yet at the same time there's this strange feeling between your temples of something like an austere freshness which is almost enjoyable.

Daniel Barenboim said something which really rings true to me: "Music never laughs or cries, it always laughs and cries at the same time."


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I find the Moonlight Sonata pretty depressing too, it makes me want to hurt myself. Onother sad/depressive piece is
*Bach - Komm, süsser Tod (Come, Sweet Death)*





I find *Mahler : " What love tells me"* quite depressive too. It is probably supposed to sound beautiful, but I hear there a resignation and mourning over all things lost


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Gallus said:


> Daniel Barenboim said something which really rings true to me: "Music never laughs or cries, it always laughs and cries at the same time."


Huh, I would have thought Barenboim had heard enough music to know this can't be true.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Larkenfield said:


> I hear this in an entirely different and positive light. "He is alone in his heaven... and in his love." This is not a song of sadness and there's an unmistakable sense of peace and calm that underlies it... He's simply lost to the tumult of the world and being "alone" is not the same as being cut-off from others or isolated as another possible misinterpretation. He's completely at peace with himself and the music arises out of a serenity that can be heard in so many of his other works, including the slow movements of his symphonies. Let's not anyone project something onto the composer that has nothing to do with the poem or the peaceful calm of this lovely setting. There's no complaint in it. Being "dead to the world" means being detached and unconcerned about the world, and actually, it sounds like he's enjoying himself and the peacefulness of the moment.


This goes to show how different subjective responses can be! While I realize that this positivity is present in the poem, I do not hear it in the music until the end. Before then, the music very much seems to be telling a different story, one of loneliness and isolation. What I hear in the end is Mahler finding hope and positivity in his love and art. IE, the song seems to be moving from darkness to light, from depression to hope. I hear it similarly to the way I read Shakespeare's Sonnet #29, where the speaker spends the octave lamenting all of his short-comings and giving every reason to be depressed until, at the volta, he thinks upon his love and all is right with the world. I do not quite hear that level of triumphalism in Mahler, as his ending note of hope sounds more tentative than full of conviction. I'm afraid I can't hear it as peaceful without hearing the longing and loneliness; but perhaps that's just me!


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> This goes to show how different subjective responses can be! While I realize that this positivity is present in the poem, I do not hear it in the music until the end. Before then, the music very much seems to be telling a different story, one of loneliness and isolation. What I hear in the end is Mahler finding hope and positivity in his love and art. IE, the song seems to be moving from darkness to light, from depression to hope. I hear it similarly to the way I read Shakespeare's Sonnet #29, where the speaker spends the octave lamenting all of his short-comings and giving every reason to be depressed until, at the volta, he thinks upon his love and all is right with the world. I do not quite hear that level of triumphalism in Mahler, as his ending note of hope sounds more tentative than full of conviction. I'm afraid I can't hear it as peaceful without hearing the longing and loneliness, but perhaps that's just me!


Hi Eve. I can only speak of my own experience. Perhaps one must have already felt the peace and serenity that Ruckert's experiencing as a state of being before being able to recognize it in his poem and Mahler's setting, because I read nothing in his words and hear nothing in the composer's setting that suggests anything other than peace, serenity and a detachment from the tumult of the world, and nothing related to loneliness or depression. There's no inner conflict that I can see indicated in the words. Both poet and composer appear to be at peace with themselves and capturing the beauty of the moment, and with Mahler, he's written in that mood of great inner stillness and peace a number of times in his symphonies and elsewhere... The mood and state of mind in the poet appear clearly indicated in the words without anyone projecting something opposite to them in mood. Why would the composer write something contrary to the serene and meditative nature of Ruckert's words?-and how many listeners consider the peaceful nature of the words when hearing the music, or were the words and music separated from each other and experienced as being in conflict? But not for me... If the words weren't necessary as part of the mood and setting, I doubt if Mahler would have used them to compose a setting that to me sounds like it's in perfect harmony with Ruckert's sentiments. That's why I've not experienced this beautiful and still setting as "depressing." If it were me, I would hear it again with different eyes and ears and not read in anything of a negative nature, not in this poem, because there's nothing objectively suggestive that I can see as even remotely depressing in Ruckert's poem and Mahler's serene setting, thought the composer was certainly capable of experiencing loss and despair in some of his other works, but as a catharsis, not to depress, but to heal. Best wishes.

_Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen_

"I am dead to the world's tumult,
And I rest in a quiet realm!
I live alone in my heaven,
In my love and in my song."


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I agree there's no depression in this music.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Larkenfield said:


> Hi Eve. I can only speak of my own experience. Perhaps one must have already felt the peace and serenity that Ruckert's experiencing as a state of being before being able to recognize it in his poem and Mahler's setting, because I read nothing in his words and hear nothing in the composer's setting that suggests anything other than peace, serenity and a detachment from the tumult of the world, and nothing related to loneliness or depression. There's no inner conflict that I can see indicated in the words. Both poet and composer appear to be at peace with themselves and capturing the beauty of the moment, and with Mahler, he's written in that mood of great inner stillness and peace a number of times in his symphonies and elsewhere... The mood and state of mind in the poet appear clearly indicated in the words without anyone projecting something opposite to them in mood. Why would the composer write something contrary to the serene and meditative nature of Ruckert's words?-and how many listeners consider the peaceful nature of the words when hearing the music, or were the words and music separated from each other and experienced as being in conflict? But not for me... If the words weren't necessary as part of the mood and setting, I doubt if Mahler would have used them to compose a setting that to me sounds like it's in perfect harmony with Ruckert's sentiments. That's why I've not experienced this beautiful and still setting as "depressing." If it were me, I would hear it again with different eyes and ears and not read in anything of a negative nature, not in this poem, because there's nothing objectively suggestive that I can see as even remotely depressing in Ruckert's poem and Mahler's serene setting, thought the composer was certainly capable of experiencing loss and despair in some of his other works, but as a catharsis, not to depress, but to heal. Best wishes.
> 
> _Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen_
> 
> ...


I first heard this piece without access to the lyrics, and I remember finding the music extremely sad/depressing upon a first listen. After reading the lyrics I actually thought the music was fitting until those closing words. As for your question of: "Why would the composer write something contrary to the serene and meditative nature of Ruckert's words?" Part of the artistry of songwriting and opera is in using the music to editorialize words that may not have a definitive tonality on the page, or even to provide a different/alternative perspective to those words when they do. If all music could do was perfectly match the tone of the written word then song and opera would be a rather impoverished art-form. That said, I think that up until the ending of the poem the words are more ambiguous rather than decidedly serene. It would be entirely possible to interpret them as being lonely and melancholic rather than serene and meditative. So I don't think Mahler is necessarily composing something contrary to the words, but I do think the music is giving that mood/tone/perspective to the words. We can only agree to disagree over that. I've experienced serenity and peace, and I've experienced loneliness and depression; to me, Mahler's music there is much closer to the latter than the former. But, again, that's just how I hear it.


----------



## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

The only depressing music I know is music that I do not like.


----------

