# Favorite London-based orchestra?



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

London might be the center of classical music in today's world. In any case, they certainly have far more than their fair share of major orchestras. In addition to the large, symphony orchestra-style groups–the London Symphony Orchestra, London Philharmonic Orchestra, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Philharmonia Orchestra, and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra–they have many chamber orchestras and specialty groups–the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, the English Concert, the English Chamber Orchestra, the Academy of Ancient Music, the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, etc.... and surely I'm missing some!

Clearly, this is a ton of orchestras. Makes me wonder how many professional musicians live in the area, it must be in the tens of thousands. I have never been to London but knowing this puts it high up on my list of cities to visit in my lifetime. 

Anyway, do you have a favorite? Is there any one that you think shines above the rest in terms of quality, consistency, etc...? I am especially curious of UK residents who have seen several of these groups in concert, but we can judge off of recordings too (which is what I will be doing). 

Personally, I say each one of the groups I've named has something to offer, but my favorites would have to be the LSO (sooo many classic recordings), the ASMF (ditto, especially under founding director Sir Neville Marriner, an excellent conductor), and the Philharmonia. 

What say you all...?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Over the years the symphony orchestras sort of take turns being the best -- depending on who the principals are at any given instant (many of the back-desk players play in several orchestras, and chamber orchestras and pick-up groups -- London is a good place to be a freelance musician).


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Tough question to answer. They all sound great - but there are so many variables: who's on the podium? What hall are they in? What music is in front of them? If I had to choose a "favorite", I would have to go with the LSO - virtuosity to spare, a rhythmic sense second to none, a brilliant sound, and a recorded legacy that is astonishing. But the LPO is right up there, too. The RPO I have a soft spot for - it was the first London orchestra I heard live.

If there was ever a greatest ever on records, the winner would be the National Philharmonic that producer/conductor Charles Gerhardt created for his astounding RCA movie soundtrack series - they went on and made other recordings as well. Pulling the top talent from London's major orchestras and freelancers, that was one heck of a group.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^Walter Legge's Philharmonia would also be at the top of the list - '50's and early 60's Karajan & Klemperer.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> London might be the center of classical music in today's world. In any case, they certainly have far more than their fair share of major orchestras. In addition to the large, symphony orchestra-style groups-the London Symphony Orchestra, London Philharmonic Orchestra, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Philharmonia Orchestra, and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra-they have many chamber orchestras and specialty groups-the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, the English Concert, the English Chamber Orchestra, the Academy of Ancient Music, the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, the Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique, etc.... and surely I'm missing some!
> 
> Clearly, this is a ton of orchestras. Makes me wonder how many professional musicians live in the area, it must be in the tens of thousands. I have never been to London but knowing this puts it high up on my list of cities to visit in my lifetime.
> 
> ...


Academy of Ancient Music
London Sinfonietta
The Nash Ensemble 
The Bach Players
London Contemporary Orchestra
Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I assume the London Mozart Players are still going?
And the Orchestra of St.John Smith's Square?

Impossible to pick any specific favourite, but thanks to Klaus Tennstedt, I always seemed to prefer the LPO over the LSO.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2019)

I wouldn't like to pick a favourite from any of those mentioned in post #1. They all sound first rate to me, based on many recordings I have by them. Although I worked in central London for many years, I must confess to not availing myself all that often of the opportunity to attend classical music concerts. That's because I'm not that keen on the concert experience, as I find I'm easily disturbed by noise around me. The only times I did so were during the Proms seasons, and then only a maybe a couple of occasions each year on average. I probably went to more rock concerts than classical concerts, where noise from those around you is less of a problem.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Mandryka said:


> Academy of Ancient Music
> London Sinfonietta
> The Nash Ensemble
> The Bach Players
> ...


Knew I was missing a high profile "symphony" style orchestra - Covent Garden is definitely major. I'm not familiar with the Bach Players or the London Contemporary Orchestra. The AAM is a killer band, but I haven't heard too many of their recordings, just a few of their Bach recordings with Hogwood on L'oiseau Lyre. Super tight sound. They were one of the first major HIP groups anywhere, not just London, no?


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

The London Philharmonic for me, chiefly because if its Bax recordings under the late Bryden Thomson, but also because it is a very good Bruckner orchestra (and Mahler as we well know). Its tonal weight, especially of its the brass section, has always impress me.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Narrowed it down to three …. So, still deciding.

Maybe you can help. Here are the three:
















I do think, though, that I'm leaning towards the Mickey Mouse in London Orchestra.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> Knew I was missing a high profile "symphony" style orchestra - Covent Garden is definitely major. I'm not familiar with the Bach Players or the London Contemporary Orchestra. The AAM is a killer band, but I haven't heard too many of their recordings, just a few of their Bach recordings with Hogwood on L'oiseau Lyre. Super tight sound. They were one of the first major HIP groups anywhere, not just London, no?


The London Sinfonietta is to modern music what the AAM is to early music. As to the Royal Opera House Orchestra, I'm really impressed with what Tony Pappano has done there over the last 15+ years.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> Knew I was missing a high profile "symphony" style orchestra - Covent Garden is definitely major. I'm not familiar with the Bach Players or the London Contemporary Orchestra. The AAM is a killer band, but I haven't heard too many of their recordings, just a few of their Bach recordings with Hogwood on L'oiseau Lyre. Super tight sound. They were one of the first major HIP groups anywhere, not just London, no?


In a way the greatest London orchestra, in some sense of _greatest_, doesn't exist any more, The Scratch Orchestra. I saw them once, they came together about ten years ago for a performance of Cardew's The Great Learning.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

I don't know about favourite, but I've had a great time at the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightnement "Night Shift" events where they put on programmes at pubs in the evening. They did a great night with trumpet stuff by Purcell and Handel a while back. The kind of thing more people should know about.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Academy of St Martin in the Fields. Didn't have to think about this one


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Judith said:


> Academy of St Martin in the Fields. Didn't have to think about this one


Excellent choice, a favorite of mine as well.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> Excellent choice, a favorite of mine as well.


Saw them live twice with Joshua Bell and the concerts were just amazing


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Of the mainstream symphony orchestras it must now be the LSO. It used to be the LPO. Both have maintained a standard of excellence for decades. There are many other bands that are very good.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

I think that each of the bands you mention, had their shining hours. But the quality of orchestra's varies over time and I second Enthusiast in his praise of the LSO. However, in the global picture, the LSO is probably not on the podium (1-2-3). 

Apart from the many classical orchestras apparently coming from London, it seems to be a handicap that there is no excellent venue to play classical symphonic music. The Barbican is second rate for its acoustics, Royal Festival Hall has a long history of bad acoustics, the Royal Albert Hall is too big, St Pauls Cathedral has, well, cathedral acoustics. ASMIF plays in a church.

I would certainly consider other classical music centres too if you would consider a trip


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

^^^ Well, you say that, but in the Gramophone survey which ranked the world's best orchestras and came up with a top 20, the London Symphony Orchestra came 4th, (behind the obvious three - Concertgebouw/Berlin/Vienna). Not bad, but the London Philharmonic did not even get a mention.

This survey is of course 100% correct and indisputable fact, and cannot be argued with, on pain of death or worse. :devil:


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

NLAdriaan said:


> I think that each of the bands you mention, had their shining hours. But the quality of orchestra's varies over time and I second Enthusiast in his praise of the LSO. However, in the global picture, the LSO is probably not on the podium (1-2-3).
> 
> Apart from the many classical orchestras apparently coming from London, it seems to be a handicap that there is no excellent venue to play classical symphonic music. The Barbican is second rate for its acoustics, Royal Festival Hall has a long history of bad acoustics, the Royal Albert Hall is too big, St Pauls Cathedral has, well, cathedral acoustics. ASMIF plays in a church.
> 
> I would certainly consider other classical music centres too if you would consider a trip


I don't know what is happening with it but Simon Rattle was reported to have insisted that a new hall be built for the LSO before he was willing to take up his position as principal conductor.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> I don't know what is happening with it but Simon Rattle was reported to have insisted that a new hall be built for the LSO before he was willing to take up his position as principal conductor.


There are plans afoot.....

https://www.barbican.org.uk/our-story/press-room/first-concept-designs-released-for-london-centre-for-music-project-as-next


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> I don't know what is happening with it but Simon Rattle was reported to have insisted that a new hall be built for the LSO before he was willing to take up his position as principal conductor.


Well, for what I know Sir Simon Rattle and the LSO are still playing in the Barbican.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

mikeh375 said:


> There are plans afoot.....
> 
> https://www.barbican.org.uk/our-story/press-room/first-concept-designs-released-for-london-centre-for-music-project-as-next











Well, this looks promising, a setting somewhat similar to the Berliner Philharmonie. Thx for sharing and hopefully a acoustical new start for the London classical music scene!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

mikeh375 said:


> There are plans afoot.....
> 
> https://www.barbican.org.uk/our-story/press-room/first-concept-designs-released-for-london-centre-for-music-project-as-next


I was at the Barbican Hall about three weeks ago, it really does need a lick of paint.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

In the early, mid 50s, the Philharmonia was the best of the London orchestras...
When Pierre Monteux took over the London Symphony in the 60s, he brought it to the top, and IMO, it has remained there...under Monteux's leadeship the LSO became one of the "greatest ever" orchestras - which made such stellar recordings under Monteux, Kertesz, Previn, Solti, Abbado, DOrati, etc...
During the 90s and early 2000s, I had the chance to hear the LSO, LPO, RoyalPO and Philharmonia in live concert...they all sounded good...but I thought LSO lead the pack...for me, the only conductors who could get the LPO to sound really first-class were Boult and Solti...the RoyPO and Philharmonia sounded good, but not at the top, at least at the time...
London-based musicians switch around constantly, or at least they used to...like musical chairs....much like the old NBC - NYPO - MetOpera - Philadelphia "switcheroos" that were so common in the 30s-60s in New York...


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> Clearly, this is a ton of orchestras. Makes me wonder how many professional musicians live in the area, it must be in the tens of thousands. I have never been to *London* but knowing this puts it high up on my list of cities to visit in my lifetime.


 If I was an American (or Canadian) citizen keen on classical music who hadn't visited the UK but wished to do so, I'd suggest that a trip during the "Proms" season (July-Sept) would be the best time to arrange it. As you probably know, the main venue is the Albert Hall, which is in central London. The other main venue for Prom works is the Cadogan Hall for chamber music. That's near Sloane Square/Belgravia, one of the poshest and most expensive areas of London. Sometimes they have open air concerts in Hyde Park, which is close by to the Albert Hall. There are several museums and Art galleries in that area.

If you might be interested to see a bit more of what England has to offer, I'd suggest taking a round trip taking in "Constable" country (where the famous landscape painter John Constable was based). From there, move on to the cities of Cambridge, Oxford and Bath. Cambridge is one the best university towns in the world, not just for its high educational status but for the general ambience, antiquity and architectural beauty of the place. Oxford is quite a lot busier but largely ditto. The City of Bath is definitely worth a visit for its Georgian elegance. If you've read any Jane Austen, the various "Northanger Abbey" sights are very nice to see.

From Bath, if time permitted, I'd also include a trip along the South Coast taking in resorts such as Dartmouth, Sidmouth, New Forest, Bournemouth. This would cover some the best of the English countryside in the Devon and Dorset area. Unfotunately, the main problem in doing anything like this is the traffic and congestion that you meet most places you go. The cost could be quite high too, since London is hardly a cheap place to visit.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

^^^^ Absolutely a great trip and worthwhile your visit. Please add visits to Cathedrals where you can listen to the incredible choral music tradition, which you will only find in England. This however is difficult in the holiday/proms season, as the choristers will be on holiday.

If anyone from outside Europe would want to drown in the best symphonic music Europe has to offer, I would save some (serious) money and get a Passe-Partout for the annual Lucerne festival. This is absolutely the best classical music festival, especially for orchestras. Just look at this year's program....:
https://www.lucernefestival.ch/en/program/sommer-festival-2019


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Partita said:


> If I was an American (or Canadian) citizen keen on classical music who hadn't visited the UK but wished to do so, I'd suggest that a trip during the "Proms" season (July-Sept) would be the best time to arrange it. As you probably know, the main venue is the Albert Hall, which is in central London. The other main venue for Prom works is the Cadogan Hall for chamber music. That's near Sloane Square/Belgravia, one of the poshest and most expensive areas of London. Sometimes they have open air concerts in Hyde Park, which is close by to the Albert Hall.  There are several museums and Art galleries in that area.
> 
> If you might be interested to see a bit more of what England has to offer, I'd suggest taking a round trip taking in "Constable" country (where the famous landscape painter John Constable was based). From there, move on to the cities of Cambridge, Oxford and Bath. Cambridge is one the best university towns in the world, not just for its high educational status but for the general ambience, antiquity and architectural beauty of the place. Oxford is quite a lot busier but largely ditto. The City of Bath is definitely worth a visit for its Georgian elegance. If you've read any Jane Austen, the various "Northanger Abbey" sights are very nice to see.
> 
> From Bath, if time permitted, I'd also include a trip along the South Coast taking in resorts such as Dartmouth, Sidmouth, New Forest, Bournemouth. This would cover some the best of the English countryside in the Devon and Dorset area. Unfotunately, the main problem in doing anything like this is the traffic and congestion that you meet most places you go. The cost could be quite high too, since London is hardly a cheap place to visit.


Noted. Great to see an English guy (unless I'm mistaken) proud of his home country. Seems this is not always widespread. Trust me, the UK is one of the places I most desire to see. I've sadly never been outside of North America, but I plan to change that in the coming year or two. Interestingly, though I've always had a desire for travel, getting into classical music has really ignited that desire into actually trying to make plans for it.

@NLAdriaan  that looks amazing!! I have got to go, if not this year then... eventually...


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2019)

NLAdriaan said:


> ^^^^ Absolutely a great trip and worthwhile your visit. Please add visits to Cathedrals where you can listen to the incredible choral music tradition, which you will only find in England. This however is difficult in the holiday/proms season, as the choristers will be on holiday.
> 
> If anyone from outside Europe would want to drown in the best symphonic music Europe has to offer, I would save some (serious) money and get a Passe-Partout for the annual Lucerne festival. This is absolutely the best classical music festival, especially for orchestras. Just look at this year's program....:
> https://www.lucernefestival.ch/en/program/sommer-festival-2019


The Lucerne Festival has been on my "bucket list" for some time. Another one I had thought about was the Salzburg Festival but I'm not sure is that one is still going. I recall looking into it a few years ago and spotted works by Schubert that interested me especially. That part of the world generally is spectacular, and worth visiting just for the scenery, but with a good classical music festival on top it's extra worth it. You've got me thinking now about this all over again.

You're right that any trip to the UK would be incomplete without adding in some old Cathedrals. In London, of course, the two most obvious ones are Westminster Abbey and St Pauls. It's a miracle that neither was hit by the Luftwaffe in WW2. Someone "up there" was possibly performing miracles to prevent it from happening. Other very old Cathedrals that could quite easily be fitted into the trip I mentioned would by Ely, Hereford, Worcester, Gloucester, Winchester. They're all roughly on the same journey with minor detours. In all cases I don't know about the chances of hearing any choral music.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

How good is the London Philharmonic...? They have quickly risen in my estimation, due in part to two great Brahms symphony cycles from 30 years apart: Jochum/EMI and Alsop/Naxos—but also, Klaus Tennstedt and his great (live) Mahler recordings there. It's between them and the Philharmonia for me as far as the big symphony orchestras go. Sorry, LSO; I still love you. As for the others, I've never been crazy about the BBC SO, and I think the Royal PO's best days are far behind them (unless someone more "in the know" wants to convince me otherwise). 

Moreover, the London Sinfonietta is a killer ensemble as well...


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

LSO + Rattle sounds way than BPO + Rattle (ambivalent sound) or LSO + Gergiev (lacks finer details) to my ears. They are going to do great things. The LSO recordings don't do the justice of the reinvigorated LSO sound.

LPO + Jurowski is very good. I am constantly impressed by their output. Their records have superior sound engineering.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> LSO + Rattle sounds way than BPO + Rattle (ambivalent sound) or LSO + Gergiev (lacks finer details) to my ears. They are going to do great things. The LSO recordings don't do the justice of the reinvigorated LSO sound.
> 
> LPO + Jurowski is very good. I am constantly impressed by their output. Their records have superior sound engineering.


Is the LPO under Jurowski exclusively putting out records on the LPO house label? Those that I've heard from there do sound great (esp. that Mahler 2; it's damn good!) I agree, I think the LSO is a better fit for Rattle than was the BPO and I have high hopes for his tenure there.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> Is the LPO under Jurowski exclusively putting out records on the LPO house label? Those that I've heard from there do sound great (esp. that Mahler 2; it's damn good!) I agree, I think the LSO is a better fit for Rattle than was the BPO and I have high hopes for his tenure there.


It appears so and I certainly hope so. Jurowski's Mahler and Tchaikovsky are quite good (the excellent sound really shines).


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

The London Philharmonic. Not because it was necessarily the greatest London orchestra; but because when I started my record collection in the late 1950s it was on the affordable (cheap) Stereo Fidelity label in the U.S. My affection for the orchestra remains six decades later.

I presume they were pick up orchestras; but I remember recordings by the Sinfonia of London and the Pro Arte Orchestra.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

In my CD collection I have almost as many recordings by London-based orchestras as by all U.S.-based orchestras. I do have a lot of 20th Century English music, but a lot of my Baroque, Classical, and Romantic music recordings are by London-based orchestras as well. I hadn’t actually realized that until I read this thread.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

London orchestras rise and fall. Historically there have actually been several London orchestras - the Philharmonia (previously the New Philharmonia), the Royal Philharmonic and the BBC Symphony as well as the two with London in their names. These days the LPO and LSO rule the roost but I think it is generally felt that the LSO is currently the greater band ... I don't think Rattle could have been attracted to the LPO.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> London orchestras rise and fall. Historically there have actually been several London orchestras - the Philharmonia (previously the New Philharmonia), the Royal Philharmonic and the BBC Symphony as well as the two with London in their names. These days the LPO and LSO rule the roost but I think it is generally felt that the LSO is currently the greater band ... I don't think Rattle could have been attracted to the LPO.


Good point. The LSO does have a certain prestige to it that the others don't seem to have; it wouldn't be unusual to hear them named in a sentence with the Berlin Philharmonic or the Concertgebouw. Perhaps it's because they're the oldest by a couple of decades...?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I think it was different some fifty years ago when the LPO was probably top dog - under conductors like Solti (who they didn't like) and Tennstedt (who they worshipped). I actually prefer the LPO as they are a little less slick (a bit more heart) but the LSO is certainly an awsome band these days. I wonder what the situation will be when the COVID crisis has done its worst.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I think it was different some fifty years ago when the LPO was probably top dog - under conductors like Solti (who they didn't like) and Tennstedt (who they worshipped).


I've never ranked the LPO at the top of the London orchestras....for me, Solti and Boult are the only ones who got them to sound like a really first class orchestra. They may have disliked Solti, but he got the sound from them. The VPO didn't esp like Solti either, but they produced some great results, and nobody minds getting those "Ring" royalty checks!!

I heard Tennstedt/LPO perform Mahler 5 in Boston Sym Hall - it was good, but not as good as Abbado/LSO which preceded them by a year or two. Neither of them matched the Solti/CSO performance I heard at Carnegie Hall.

As I posted previously - during the 50s, I think the Philharmonia was the top London orchestra....LSO was good, some great players, but kind of wild, ragged at times....Monteux came in and put things together - this was the great LSO of the late 50s-60s - which produced great recordings under Monteux, Kertesz, Solti, Previn, Abbado, Dorati...I believe LSO has maintained that standard to the present.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Well, living in London in the 1960s and 1970s it certainly seemed that the LPO was the better orchestra. I attended many concerts of both and that was certainly the way it seemed then ... and not just to me but to most classical fans that I knew at the time. I did hear Abbado do Mahler 5 at around that time (with the LSO) and although the orchestra was good it was not entirely a successful performance - there was little sign that Abbado would become a leading Mahler conductor. I do agree that Solti was one of the greats.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Well, living in London in the 1960s and 1970s it certainly seemed that the LPO was the better orchestra. I attended many concerts of both and that was certainly the way it seemed then


Interesting....I did not hear either LSO or LPO live during those years - my exposure was thru recordings. A friend of mine was a big Haitink/LPO fan and used to bring his items around for group listening sessions...They were good, decent, for sure I'd say B+/B level - good, but not at the top. 
The LSO recordings, otoh, were top-notch - the Monteux, Kertesz, Abbado. Dorati always sounded great...I thought the LSO had better principal players overall - some real All-Stars - Bennett [fl], De Peyer [cl], Tuckwell [hn], Waterhouse, Birnstingl [Bssn], Murphy[tpt], Wick [trbne]....to me, the LSO played with more "panache", more _bravura_...a lot more "balls". Boult and Solti seemed to be the ones to really kick the LPO into top gear.

The only live "head-to-head" comparison occurred some years later with the successive Mahler 5 performances with Abbado/LSO and Tennstedt/LPO within a couple years of each other. My previous impressions were confirmed, I thought the LSO sounded considerably stronger for the same reasons aforementioned. 
of course, this is orchestras on tour - musicians get tired, you're not always getting the best circumstances...but it was consistent with my previous experience.

I heard the [New] Philharmonia live in early 70s [Rochester, NY] - sounded terrific - great program - Sibelius 7, Till Eulenspiegel, Firebird suite, etc...I heard them again in the early 90s [Bergen, Norway] - good, but not as impressive as the previous event...


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> Interesting....I did not hear either LSO or LPO live during those years - my exposure was thru recordings. A friend of mine was a big Haitink/LPO fan and used to bring his items around for group listening sessions...They were good, decent, for sure I'd say B+/B level - good, but not at the top.
> The LSO recordings, otoh, were top-notch - the Monteux, Kertesz, Abbado. Dorati always sounded great...I thought the LSO had better principal players overall - some real All-Stars - Bennett [fl], De Peyer [cl], Tuckwell [hn], Waterhouse, Birnstingl [Bssn], Murphy[tpt], Wick [trbne]....to me, the LSO played with more "panache", more _bravura_...a lot more "balls". Boult and Solti seemed to be the ones to really kick the LPO into top gear.
> 
> The only live "head-to-head" comparison occurred some years later with the successive Mahler 5 performances with Abbado/LSO and Tennstedt/LPO within a couple years of each other. My previous impressions were confirmed, I thought the LSO sounded considerably stronger for the same reasons aforementioned.
> ...


LSO has a more exciting sound and sharper bite (a bit ragged sure). BBC symphony orchestra has a great sound as well. Philharmonia is still pretty good under Salonen.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

In its mid-50’s to early-70’s heyday under Klemperer, the Philharmonia/New Philharmonia was one of the greatest orchestras in the world, able to meet the demands of any conductor. I don’t think some of the more controversial recordings they made - Barbirolli’s Mahler 6, Klemperer’s Mahler 7, both renowned for their very slow tempi - could have worked with any other orchestra. The level of stamina, alertness, concentration, purity of tone, and chamber-like discipline that Klemperer cultivated in them was second to none. A great recording from the late 50’s from them that I really like is the Mahler 4 under Paul Kletzki. Dennis Brain is captured in stereo on principal horn shortly before his untimely death, and he handles the horn parts in that symphony like no other.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> In its mid-50's to early-70's heyday under Klemperer, the Philharmonia/New Philharmonia was one of the greatest orchestras in the world, able to meet the demands of any conductor. I don't think some of the more controversial recordings they made - Barbirolli's Mahler 6, Klemperer's Mahler 7, both renowned for their very slow tempi - could have worked with any other orchestra. The level of stamina, alertness, concentration, purity of tone, and chamber-like discipline that Klemperer cultivated in them was second to none. A great recording from the late 50's from them that I really like is the Mahler 4 under Paul Kletzki. Dennis Brain is captured in stereo on principal horn shortly before his untimely death, and he handles the horn parts in that symphony like no other.


Try Kletzki's Das Lied von der Erde from that same period w/ DFD and Murray Dickie. I know you're not big on DFD, but you might enjoy it otherwise. It's amazingly conducted and played. I wish Kletzki recorded more Mahler.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> Interesting....I did not hear either LSO or LPO live during those years - my exposure was thru recordings. A friend of mine was a big Haitink/LPO fan and used to bring his items around for group listening sessions...They were good, decent, for sure I'd say B+/B level - good, but not at the top.
> The LSO recordings, otoh, were top-notch - the Monteux, Kertesz, Abbado. Dorati always sounded great...I thought the LSO had better principal players overall - some real All-Stars - Bennett [fl], De Peyer [cl], Tuckwell [hn], Waterhouse, Birnstingl [Bssn], Murphy[tpt], Wick [trbne]....to me, the LSO played with more "panache", more _bravura_...a lot more "balls". Boult and Solti seemed to be the ones to really kick the LPO into top gear.
> 
> The only live "head-to-head" comparison occurred some years later with the successive Mahler 5 performances with Abbado/LSO and Tennstedt/LPO within a couple years of each other. My previous impressions were confirmed, I thought the LSO sounded considerably stronger for the same reasons aforementioned.
> ...


Was the Philharmonia concert under Maazel? I may have heard them on the same tour. Had friends at Smith College. Same Sibelius and Strauss. Had programmed Bartok Music for S, P, and C, but as soon as he heard the hall (small but alive) he switched to Miraculous Mandarin suite, which blew everyone away. Always liked the Phil. Was smallish but had a rich, dark sound.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

MarkW said:


> Was the Philharmonia concert under Maazel? I may have heard them on the same tour.


No, i forgot who conducted, an assistant i think, Japanese guy(??)can't remember, not a big name.



> Always liked the Phil. Was smallish but had a rich, dark sound.


Yeh, it was a really fun concert... they played very aggressively, really swinging for it...I remember in "Till" where the horns all go up to the high C (concert F) they were all blowing like h*ll. and somebody clammed it!! <<Hey, if you're going to make a mistake, make it a good one>> lol!! I think they played in the Auditorium Theater, which is smaller than the Eastman Theater.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't have a favorite but I admire all of the London based orchestras and English choral ensembles. I suppose the London Symphony was the first orchestra to appear on my radar from that country many decades ago.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

A listen to the Jochum LPO set of Haydn symphonies might persuade some that the LPO could do things that the LSO couldn't - it wasn't in their technical supremacy so much as their occasional ability to deliver something special. The LSO are a more disciplined force but that is not everything (and the LPO were usually on top of their game as well, anyway).


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