# Mahler - Bernstein DG or Chailly?



## Siegfried

Well, I think it's time I got a Mahler symphony set.

Based on the reviews, both Bernstein's DG set and Chailly's set would make a solid start.
But if you were to recommend one of the two to a newbie, which one would it be?

My Mahler experience so far consists of Solti/CSO 8th, Chailly's 3rd, Abbado/VPO 4th, Rattle 9th, and Nanut 1st.

I find Bernstein's Brahms (with VPO) dull. As for Beethoven (VPO), only his 6th and 9th sounded truly inspired to me.

I know next to nothing about Chailly... although his Mahler 3rd sounded pretty amazing...

Sound quality matters.


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## Aramis

If you're going to listen some symphonies for the first time there is no better set than this:










All symphonies are recorded with great clarity and though there are some relatively better interpretations, Solti makes everything visible since first listen, every tasty thing is exposed so you can understand Mahler ideas etc. It is the most clear and straight road to dig all Mahler. Did I mention that Solti has best singers in almost every symphony?


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## handlebar

I just cannot pick one set. The Chailly M2,M3 and M9 are very well done IMHO but then again the DG Bernstein set has a lot of merit as well.
If I HAD to pick a Desert Island set to take with me that had great sound,interpretation,etc I think I would take the MTT recordings to be honest. They are simply superb. And the Rattle series is fine too. Just too many great recordings out there.

But the best solution is to choose different recordings for all the symphonies.

Jim


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## Guest

The Tilson Thomas set is a fine one, and he also has the advantage of also having recorded "Das Klagende Lied." The sound is a major selling point, though.

But his Das Lied von der Erde (if you are going to count that among the symphonies) is less than impressive.

Of those you listed, I would go for Bernstein. There are more hits than misses with him, and he knew his Mahler. But the problem with cycles by a single composer is that they are not always the best available. For example, with Bernstein, his recording of the 9th with Vienna, also on DG, but not in this set, is superior. And neither of these two has my favorite recording of the 2nd, or even in my top 5, so that would be tough for me, as it is my favorite of the symphonies. However, I do enjoy the 1st and 5th in the Bernstein set.


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## handlebar

I agree that the MTT Das Lied is not top notch. For the Das Lied I would count the Klemperer with Wunderlich and Ludwig as my personal favourite.

For the M3 I count Horenstein and MTT as fav's as well as many of the Boulez DG cd's too. 

I guess that's why I have over 300+ Mahler CD's in the collection.

Jim


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## World Violist

If you're looking for boxes go with either Bernstein's earlier set on Sony or whatever else, maybe Gary Bertini? I haven't heard him but people tend to say he's the greatest Mahler interpreter, so he can't be that bad.

For individual releases you can't go wrong with James Levine. An underrated powerhouse Mahlerian, he gave unbelievably intense readings of all the symphonies except for Nos. 2 and 8 for RCA, but they're all out of print except for No. 4, so be prepared for some bigger prices. However, he did rerecord the 6th and 9th, and the 6th I can vouch for; it's my favorite out of some 10 or so other recordings I've listened to. (if you want to go the more expensive route, and I understand if you don't, start with No. 3; it is the best one out there, as far as I know)


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## David58117

I voted "other" - I have the early Bernstein on Sony, and have heard the Bertini set - I recommend the Bertini. The sound quality is heads and shoulders above the Bernstein, and I think it's the 5th where his orchestra falls completely flat. 

Plus you got Das Lied von der Erde with the Bertini..


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## World Violist

David58117 said:


> Plus you got Das Lied von der Erde with the Bertini..


The set you have of the Bernstein is apparently the older one... they've remastered that set and included Das Lied (the IPO recording with Christa Ludwig and Kollo (I think)).

Still, I feel that if Bertini is the better choice anyway (I haven't heard any Bernstein Das Lied's yet) then go for it.


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## handlebar

I own all of the above sets mentioned as well as 10 others including Abbado,Boulez,Tennstedt,Kubelik,Haitink,MTT,Solti. All have merits and low points. All are subject to individual likes and dislikes.While Bertini is certainly not bad, some might not rate it as the best. Likewise with any of the above listed conductors. Bruno Walter recorded most of Mahler's works and knew the man very well. Yet his recordings are not considered the best out there. His M9 from 1938 on EMI is among the best recorded as far as viscera and temperament goes but the audio quality leaves many cold.

Hence my point that there are a LOT of Mahler recordings to choose from and one of the wonders and joys in life (as far as Mahler disciples are concerned) is listening to all of them and discovering new outlooks and viewpoints.

Don't you just love this lifestyle!!!????So much to listen to and digest!!

Jim


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## scytheavatar

Chailly is highly overrated and inconsistent. Bernstein DG is clearly inferior to Bernstein Sony and I wouldn't recommend Bernstein to a Mahler newbie anyway since he has a tendency to make Mahler more long winded than what he already is at times. Some will prefer other conductors to Bertini, but his box set is highly consistent, cuts out the exaggeration, presents Mahler straight and comes with Das Lied von der Erde (albeit with a Tenor/Baritone pairing that I personally couldn't stand), making it a good recommendation for a first Mahler set. But the Solti boxset is really the only Mahler boxset you need, his Mahler is powerful and exciting, with no real weak links save his 3rd. Now that it is available at a much lower price I'll recommend it as your first choice as a first Mahler set.


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## handlebar

scytheavatar said:


> Chailly is highly overrated and inconsistent. Bernstein DG is clearly inferior to Bernstein Sony and I wouldn't recommend Bernstein to a Mahler newbie anyway since he has a tendency to make Mahler more long winded than what he already is at times. Some will prefer other conductors to Bertini, but his box set is highly consistent, cuts out the exaggeration, presents Mahler straight and comes with Das Lied von der Erde (albeit with a Tenor/Baritone pairing that I personally couldn't stand), making it a good recommendation for a first Mahler set. But the Solti boxset is really the only Mahler boxset you need, his Mahler is powerful and exciting, with no real weak links save his 3rd. Now that it is available at a much lower price I'll recommend it as your first choice as a first Mahler set.


A newbie isn't going to know Bernstein is long winded is he?? So why would you dismiss him to a new listener? Also, how is Chailly overrated and inconsistent? Just curious.

Bertini is good,yes. I have the set and agree it is well done with the exception of the M8 and M1.(My opinion only of course).

Jim


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## Guest

scytheavatar said:


> Chailly is highly overrated and inconsistent. Bernstein DG is clearly inferior to Bernstein Sony and I wouldn't recommend Bernstein to a Mahler newbie anyway since he has a tendency to make Mahler more long winded than what he already is at times. Some will prefer other conductors to Bertini, but his box set is highly consistent, cuts out the exaggeration, presents Mahler straight and comes with Das Lied von der Erde (albeit with a Tenor/Baritone pairing that I personally couldn't stand), making it a good recommendation for a first Mahler set. But the Solti boxset is really the only Mahler boxset you need, his Mahler is powerful and exciting, with no real weak links save his 3rd. Now that it is available at a much lower price I'll recommend it as your first choice as a first Mahler set.


And here you see what a hornet's nest you have stirred up!

The problem with Mahler (actually, with most composers), is that there are any number of different conductors that have recorded his symphonies, each with their own style coming in (although some can be lumped together as similar).

For me, I much prefer Bernstein to Solti. Solti does a wonderful Wagner, but I just don't care for his Mahler. While I don't love all of Bernstein's Mahler recordings, whether the Sony set or the DG set, I more consistently enjoy him conducting Mahler than Solti.

I would throw another set into the mix - Kubelik's Audite recordings. Again, they aren't all going to be excellent, but he is another conductor to not overlook. I have the 1st, which gets very high reviews, and Das Lied von der Erde, which likewise gets high praise. I have read good things, too, about his recording of the 3rd. I also do a lot of my shopping on iTunes, and the prices for these recordings are astounding - with the exception of the 2nd, 3rd, and 8th, all of these can be had for $5.99 a piece - the 3rd is $11.99, the 2nd is $11.99, and the 8th is $7.99. I didn't see the 4th, though.

Bernstein is very much heart-on-the-sleeve Mahler, so if you like the emotion to really come through, he is a good choice. On the other end is Boulez, who often gets described as cold, or cerebral. If that is to you liking, his recordings are nice (I have the newer recordings of the 2nd and 3rd, and have been very pleased with them).

If you really end up enjoying Mahler (and I don't think any of these options will turn you off of Mahler), you will probably get other recordings in time, so don't sweat it too much and go with one that looks good. Do a little research, read some reviews, and make sure you aren't picking a lemon. Otherwise, I don't think you'll go wrong with either option (I haven't heard the Chailly recordings, but have read good reviews about several of them).


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## Lemminkainen

Any love for Inbal?


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## handlebar

Actually I found his M9 rather nice although a bit dry in the sonics(Denon always have had good quality sound). The tempo was fine and the presentation good.


Jim


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## scytheavatar

DrMike said:


> And here you see what a hornet's nest you have stirred up!
> 
> The problem with Mahler (actually, with most composers), is that there are any number of different conductors that have recorded his symphonies, each with their own style coming in (although some can be lumped together as similar).
> 
> For me, I much prefer Bernstein to Solti. Solti does a wonderful Wagner, but I just don't care for his Mahler. While I don't love all of Bernstein's Mahler recordings, whether the Sony set or the DG set, I more consistently enjoy him conducting Mahler than Solti.


Indeed, there are no shortages of Mahler conductors to choose from. But the Solti set is available at $46.77 from amazon.com at the moment and is one of the cheapest Mahler set you can get right now. The sony Bernstein isn't that much more expensive at $52.27, but for every person who thinks Bernstein's Mahler > Solti's Mahler there's going to be someone who thinks the other way round.


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## robert

I don't believe any one conductor gets them all right.....

Robert


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## drth15

*Mahler sets*

Most mahler sets, including the Sony Bernstein and the Solti, were recorded over several years, often with conductor & recording team changing over time. So Bernstein's set has truly great 2nd,3rd, 6th, 7th, & 9th, a charming, not-quite finished 4th, a fervent but badly-recorded 8th, and a hectic so-so 1st, actually the last recorded!

Solti Chicago is still the best-played & one of the best-recorded. But Solti admitted he never really sympathized the 3rd or 7th, & those performances especially of the third are not convincing. The 5th and 6th, first recorded in the series around 1970, are really stunning in their power and dynamics. Solti's earlier 4th with the Concertgebouw was more attuned to the works delicacy. Both his 2nds, are fine. I have always wanted to 'fuse them together- the electric tension of the first 3 movements from the 1966 LSO performance, and the expansive power, fervent Choral singing, and huge dynamic range of the 1980 Chicago. Both his 9ths are under-rated. Solti had a great grasp of the 'Mahler-Schoenberg' era, and his 9ths have unsurpassed clarity and tension even if they are not as loftily spritual as the usual recommendations. His 8th has always been a prime recommendation, and like the 5th & 6th, remains unsurpassed in physical dynamic.

Chailly's set documents a competent & intelligent conductor maturing over time. The 1st, 4th, & 6th are pretty neutral, the 5th marks the new-improved Chailly with vastly expanded control & commitment, the 7th very interesting-almost a'cuddly' performance worlds away from Bernstein I & Scherchen etc. 8 is really fine-almost as exciting as Solti, but with more realistic sound. 3 & 9 project amazing focus & detail. And as often happens, the cycle ends with a let-down, an erratic, hot & cold 2nd .

Good individual choices:

1-Kubelik DGG
2-CSO Abbado DGG or either of Bernstein's NY recordings (many would disagree w me)
3-VPO Abbado or either NY Bernstein
4 Cleveland Orch/ Szell
5 The Solti or Chailly as discussed above. Kubelik's live performance on Audite is also magnificent. Avoid Solti's digital remake
6 CSO Solti is still great, but hard to find outside the complete set The Inbal Franfurt 6 was really great-what happened to this series? have always been moved by Tennstedt's- & the live 6th is supposedly superior to the studio recording
7 There's something compelling about early 7ths- the work sounds so audacious. So try to hear the old Scherchen recording from 1954 & also the 1964 Bernstein. Newer recording are infinitely better-played, but lose some missionary zeal. Tilson Thomas's SF recording is very fine-the last movement has never been played more brilliantly.
8 Solti's is now available on Decca Legends.
9 Many great & individual ways to go here-This work has a vast & intense performance history. early 9ths-the 1938 Walter & 1952 Horenstein, like the 7th, convey a visionary intensity. Bernstein's 1965 Sony has the best of his Mahler work-a wiry intensity, massive power, & soaring lyricism-it really works & the orch is with him all the way. Giulini's with Chicago is less flexible but the last movement really burns. Abbado's Berlin remake is one of his greatest performances.
10 try to find the Sanderling berlin performance.


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## World Violist

I would actually greatly disagree with recommending Solti's Mahler 8th, as the whole thing is based on a sort of banal sense of raw excitement, and while some may indeed see this as exciting I see it as more or less circus tricks. Seiji Ozawa released a very exciting Mahler 8th that is much more insightful and inspired than Solti's is throughout, including a first movement that can breath instead of being utterly strangled; and he is actually true to the score throughout!


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## Guest

For my "dream" cycle, I'd go with the following:

1 - Kubelik/Audite
2 - Klemperer/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on EMI
3 - Boulez/Vienna on DG
4 - Tilson Thomas
5 - Bernstein/Vienna on DG
6 - Tilson Thomas
7 - Tilson Thomas
8 - Nagano - Harmonia Mundi
9 - Rattle/Berlin on EMI
10 - Rattle/Berlin on EMI
Das Lied von der Erde - Ludwig, Wunderlich; Klemperer on EMI or Kubelik on Audite
Das Klagende Lied - Tilson Thomas


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## World Violist

Hmm... My favorite recordings of each symphony... sounds rather familiar to a different thread, but whatever.

1- Boulez
2- Boulez
3- Levine
4- Levine
5- I don't really care for this symphony, so...
6- Levine/BSO
7- Boulez
8- Nagano
Das Lied- Reiner
9- Boulez (haven't heard either of Levine's yet, though...)
10- Levine


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Good thread.

Got me thinking maybe I should get a complete set of Mahler symphonies too. Life is too short to exclude such as a significant set of works, even if I end up hating it after listening to them all.

Naxos has a set (Polish symphony etc.). Why am I thinking this one? Price! Anybody here have them? Opinions? But I just want a decent fine set to begin with. If I end up hating the music (likely), then no harm done. If I think there is more potential for explorations, then I would buy other sets (like I do with other works I enjoy). What puzzles me about the Naxos set is it contains 15 CD's (not withstanding it also includes the 10th completed by some scholar). Other versions seem to have around 10, 11 CD's. Why?

Otherwise, it may be the Chicago route with Solti.


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## World Violist

I've just found a re-issue of Bernstein's DG set on Amazon for an astonishing price: around $40! It can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Symphonies-Co...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272158588&sr=8-3

The reasons for having more discs in some cycles than others has to do with a lot of considerations, for example if the set has things other than the symphonies (Das Lied von der Erde, Das Klagende Lied, the Wunderhorn songs, etc.) or how the discs are laid out (if the 4th symphony has its first movement(s) on the same disc as the second bit of the third symphony, and especially if the second, sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth symphonies take one or two CDs (as the usual timings hover around 80 or so minutes). It's very easy to justify the extra discs, actually.

I honestly don't think the Solti set is the best one to start with. It can tend toward the bombastic (from what I've listened to) and I still hold to my view of his 8th as overrated. Bernstein's Sony set is still one of the most enthusiastic, ecstatic sets around (after more than 40 years!). It's a set you really can't go wrong with, regardless the rather dated sound. I uphold Levine's as the best in individual releases, but for first box sets--Bernstein I it is for me (as indeed it was).


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## handlebar

I will say that the Bernstein DG M4 is NOT to my liking with the boy vocalist. While he does an admirable job for such a lad of his tender years, I consider this an adult work that requires adult breath control,range and intelligence.

Among my many favourite M4's are the MTT recording as well as the Zander issue with Tilling as vocalist. Superb!!

I think Zander does reasonably well in most of his recordings. He does not get much respect though.


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## tahnak

Aramis said:


> If you're going to listen some symphonies for the first time there is no better set than this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All symphonies are recorded with great clarity and though there are some relatively better interpretations, Solti makes everything visible since first listen, every tasty thing is exposed so you can understand Mahler ideas etc. It is the most clear and straight road to dig all Mahler. Did I mention that Solti has best singers in almost every symphony?


Yes I am very comfortable with Solti's Mahler. It has spine and verve.


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## PoliteNewYorker

Solti's cycle is good for a while, a few performances on there just don't hold up, however. (I'm thinking of the third in particular...) I like the EMI Tennstedt cycle, and it's quite cheap if you can find it. I own Bernstein's 1963 2nd and 8th, and both are very good performances. That will be the next Mahler cycle in which I will invest.


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## Marc

A _dream box set_ would consist of various performances with various conductors, with a weak spot for Kubelik in the earlier ones (especially nos. 1 & 4).

My favourite integral might be Gary Bertini's, who's offering very consistent and convincing readings, in a both lyrical and dramatical way.

Chailly might be a good choice if you want a clear vision with brilliant orchestral playing. Bernstein is digging deeper, though maybe sometimes too deep. My fave Bernstein set would be the DVD collection of telly performances during the Seventies.


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## violadamore2

If you can stand to listen to the slightly dated sound, you might want to at least sample the CBS/Columbia recording of Bruno Walter and the New York Philharmonic. You can hardly get more authentic.


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## David58117

Is the 2nd in the Solti set the same as the one in the pic here? I remember renting it from the library years ago and being blown away, we've since moved but I'd love to hear that performance again!


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## Vaneyes

Bernstein (Sony) and Bertini (EMI) have about half right, which is pretty good. Others, much less so. To repeat an oft-repeated phrase, sets are not the way to go.

Is the Chailly set overrated? Not if you like it. I'm not fond of some of Chailly's phrasing and tempi. Also, I think the recordings spot-miking does little to enhance.

With ACO, I think Jansons is on a better Mahler path, but he has a way to go before completion. Hopefully, Maestro's ticker holds out.

Mahler recording preferences I have...

1. Muti, Solti (1983)
2. Scherchen, Suitner
3. Bernstein (Sony), Horenstein, Nagano
4. Harding, Horenstein
5. Bernstein (DG), Shipway
6. Barbirolli (EMI), Boulez.
7. Abbado (2001), Solti (1971)
8. Boulez (DG), Bernstein (Sony LSO/66)
9. Bernstein (Sony), Karajan (DG '79-'80)
10. Ormandy, Harding
DLVDE Tennstedt (EMI), Herreweghe (arr. Schoenberg)
DKW Herreweghe


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## Moscow-Mahler

I quite like the boy soprano Helmut Wittek in Besrnstein's recording.

At first, I was a little bit dissapointed by hearing a boy instead of a standart mezzo-soprano. But after the 5th listening I began to like it

Besides, the boy has excellent pronounciation. 


As to Solti - as I've mentioned before I think he is too fast in the 1st part of the 8th. But the Second part is excellent and not brutal at all.


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## techniquest

> Naxos has a set (Polish symphony etc.). Why am I thinking this one? Price! Anybody here have them? Opinions? But I just want a decent fine set to begin with. If I end up hating the music (likely), then no harm done.


If you're unfamiliar with Mahler and may not like the music, then there seems little point in spending a lot of money for a big box set. The Naxos recordings are hit & miss and the only ones I still own are the 2nd (really rather good) and the 8th (up there with the best - superb recording). I used to have the 3rd but it has a really awful edit somewhere in the 1st movement. 
Personally I would never recommend Solti for Mahler - he's brilliant with Wagner but his Mahler simply doesn't do it for me at all.



> I quite like the boy soprano Helmut Wittek in Besrnstein's recording.


But Max Emmanuel Cencic is far, far better...


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## Bix

Before I purchase any more Mahler I'm going to YouTube it. Headphones check, red wine check, air con check.


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## bigshot

Solti put me off Mahler for a long time... too strident. Currently, I'm listening to the Columbia Walter recordings. They are just about perfect. It takes someone with that touch of Viennese flair to pull them off.


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## apricissimus

World Violist said:


> If you're looking for boxes go with either Bernstein's earlier set on Sony or whatever else, maybe Gary Bertini? I haven't heard him but people tend to say he's the greatest Mahler interpreter, so he can't be that bad.
> 
> For individual releases you can't go wrong with James Levine. An underrated powerhouse Mahlerian, he gave unbelievably intense readings of all the symphonies except for Nos. 2 and 8 for RCA, but they're all out of print except for No. 4, so be prepared for some bigger prices. However, he did rerecord the 6th and 9th, and the 6th I can vouch for; it's my favorite out of some 10 or so other recordings I've listened to. (if you want to go the more expensive route, and I understand if you don't, start with No. 3; it is the best one out there, as far as I know)


I realize this is an old post, but what the heck:

The Levine Mahler symphonies on RCA are now available in a super-cheap box set:

http://www.amazon.com/James-Levine-...&qid=1373291324&sr=8-1&keywords=mahler+levine

Of course they are, as you mentioned, not complete, missing the second and eighth symphonies. Still a great value though.


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## korenbloem

The First Mahler symphony recording I heard was Karajan's 9 (the famous live version on DG), but only short fragments and not really a classical music lover, but this wasone of those records that throuly pushed me over the edge in to the unknown lands of classical music. Then Mahlers 1st symphony by Bernstein on DG, This was a major discorvery, and still one of my favorite classical discs. The first sympony box I heard was Rattle. Didn't do anything for me. I have the EMI-label box. And there are some fine recordings on that.

But then I meet a girl, and she was a true mahler fan. But most of all of his 5th symphony. I thought his 5th, what is so impressive about that record. I tried different recordings and I couldn't hear why this would be someone favorite. Even Barbirolli (EMI) didn't transfere the big emotional statement I was looking/hoping for. Then DG reissued the Bernstein cycle. So Bernstein again? I thought to myself. 
Bernstein it became and that was again the recording I was looking for. Because from that moment on I could say from every cell in my body: Mahler's 5th is one of his greatest symphonies .

Bernstein's cycle is not perfect. And when It is possible and recordings could be presued for decent prices (say like 1 or 2 dollar a disc), I would recommend to buy single versions of the symponies and focus a while on one sympony and try and compaire different recordings. But If that is not an option: Bernsteins DG cycle is the one cycle I think you should get.


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## elgar's ghost

korenbloem said:


> The First Mahler symphony recording I heard was Karajan's 9 (the famous live version on DG), but only short fragments and not really a classical music lover, but this wasone of those records that throuly pushed me over the edge in to the unknown lands of classical music. Then Mahlers 1st symphony by Bernstein on DG, This was a major discorvery, and still one of my favorite classical discs. The first sympony box I heard was Rattle. Didn't do anything for me. I have the EMI-label box. And there are some fine recordings on that.
> 
> But then I meet a girl, and she was a true mahler fan. But most of all of his 5th symphony. I thought his 5th, what is so impressive about that record. I tried different recordings and I couldn't hear why this would be someone favorite. Even Barbirolli (EMI) didn't transfere the big emotional statement I was looking/hoping for. Then DG reissued the Bernstein cycle. So Bernstein again? I thought to myself.
> Bernstein it became and that was again the recording I was looking for. Because from that moment on I could say from every cell in my body: Mahler's 5th is one of his greatest symphonies .
> 
> Bernstein's cycle is not perfect. And when It is possible and recordings could be presued for decent prices (say like 1 or 2 dollar a disc), I would recommend to buy single versions of the symponies and focus a while on one sympony and try and compaire different recordings. But If that is not an option: Bernsteins DG cycle is the one cycle I think you should get.


Korenbloem, have you heard any of Bernstein's Mahler on Sony? Over the years I've found that some folk's ideal Bernstein cycle is a combination of recordings from both Sony and DG. Many seem to favour his Sony 4th because they're unconvinced about the boy soloist replacing the soprano for the DG recording and others have raised doubts about the acoustics on some of the DG set.


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## korenbloem

To be honest not serious. the cycle or some recodings are on my to listen list.

PS I meant that people should get different preformance by different conducters with different orchestra's/solist from different labels of the mahler symphonies.


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## Vaneyes

elgars ghost said:


> Korenbloem, have you heard any of Bernstein's Mahler on Sony? Over the years I've found that some folk's ideal Bernstein cycle is a combination of recordings from both Sony and DG. Many seem to favour his Sony 4th because they're unconvinced about the boy soloist replacing the soprano for the DG recording and others have raised doubts about the acoustics on some of the DG set.


My preference for the Sony set (though I don't own sets) is due to some of the expansive readings on DG. For instance, nos. 6, 7, and 9 are singles in Sony, and doubles in DG. For me, No. 5 is the only must-have from the DG set. :tiphat:


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## bigshot

I agree. I like having the Vienna Mahler on video, but for CD, I much prefer the Sony.


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## Xaltotun

Bernstein / Sony hooked me right from the start with its gripping and intense performances.


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## Baeron

Bernstein is a good deal when it comes to Mahler !
I own the cycle you are refearing to and it is pretty good in my opinion.


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## jimsumner

If forced to choose just one Mahler symphony cycle, I would opt for Bernstein's CBS/Sony cycle. As much as I like Bernstein, he tended to get a bit mannered as he aged. IMO.


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## Itullian

I like the Sony cycle as well.


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## bilahn

*I have to disagree on Solti/Mahler*

Solti's Mahler recordings are, for me, among the least satisfactory available, and I am someone who frequently finds Solti to be an amazing conductor.

For the most part, his interpretations are excessively frenzied, with little subtlety, poor clarity of texture, and no real feeling for the Viennese sensibility of Mahler.

This is particularly serious in the middle symphonies 5-7 which, seriously, are the least favorite of mine I have heard.

Others such as the Third, Fourth and Ninth are very good in their own way, but there are much better. Tempos are too fast and lack majesty.

Exceptions: Part II of the 8th is among the very best, sumptuous and elegant, and I agree the singers are ideal. (Part I is another story).

Solti's old LSO recording of the Resurrection is among the best.


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## bilahn

I think Solti's recordings of 5-7 are awful. He has no sense of what this music is about at all. Thick, turgid and frenzied. 

The rest are good, but there are better - I do like his Part II of the 8th, however, and his old LSO of the 2nd is wonderful.


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## bigshot

Bruno Walter is necessary


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## nightscape

I'm of the opinion that Bernstein's NY/Sony Mahler set is much, _much_, better. It's really not even close. The only DG performance that I would consider masterful is the 5th, which is my reference recording. DG 1st and 9th are fine. His loudly lauded 2nd for DG is nearly unlistenable.

But those 60s NY recordings are fantastic, not to mention the wonderful tenor/baritone Das Lied with Vienna sung by King and Fischer-Dieskau. Debatably the best 7th available, extremely good 3rd and 4th, etc. If you're going to choose any Bernstein/Mahler set go with his first 60s cycle before he started to micromanage and get too musically bloated.

Truthfully, I'm not much a fan of complete sets anyway. No conductor, as far as I have heard, has gotten Mahler 100% right on each symphony.


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## Jeffrey Smith

nightscape said:


> I'm of the opinion that Bernstein's NY/Sony Mahler set is much, _much_, better. It's really not even close. The only DG performance that I would consider masterful is the 5th, which is my reference recording. DG 1st and 9th are fine. His loudly lauded 2nd for DG is nearly unlistenable.
> 
> But those 60s NY recordings are fantastic, not to mention the wonderful tenor/baritone Das Lied with Vienna sung by King and Fischer-Dieskau. Debatably the best 7th available, extremely good 3rd and 4th, etc. If you're going to choose any Bernstein/Mahler set go with his first 60s cycle before he started to micromanage and get too musically bloated.
> 
> Truthfully, I'm not much a fan of complete sets anyway. No conductor, as far as I have heard, has gotten Mahler 100% right on each symphony.


Mostly in agreement with that last, although I think Inbal is consistently good throughout.


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## CanadianMaestro

My favorite recordings ("Five Stars"):

#1, Solti/LSO '64
#2, Mehta/VPO; Bernstein/NYP '87
#3, Bernstein/NYP '61
#4, Klemperer/Phil
#5, Bernstein/VPO
#6, Bernstein/VPO
#7, Bernstein/NYP '65; Abbado/Chic
#8, Abbado/BPO
#9, Bernstein '79/Rattle 2007, both BPO

Also Worthy:
#1: Walter/Columbia
#2: Solti/LSO '66
#3: Chailly/RCO; Bychkov/Koln
#4: Szell/Clev; Bernstein/NYP '60
#5: Schwarz/LSO '59; Chailly/RCO; Barshai/Junge Deutsche
#6: Abbado/BPO; Herbig/Saarbrucken
#7: Chailly/RCO; Gielen/SWR Baden; Gergiev/LSO
#9: Boulez/Chic; Chailly/RCO


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## Pugg

CanadianMaestro said:


> My favorite recordings ("Five Stars"):
> 
> #1, Solti/LSO '64
> #2, Mehta/VPO; Bernstein/NYP '87
> #3, Bernstein/NYP '61
> #4, Klemperer/Phil
> #5, Bernstein/VPO
> #6, Bernstein/VPO
> #7, Bernstein/NYP '65; Abbado/Chic
> #8, Abbado/BPO
> #9, Bernstein '79/Rattle 2007, both BPO
> 
> Also Worthy:
> #1: Walter/Columbia
> #2: Solti/LSO '66
> #3: Chailly/RCO; Bychkov/Koln
> #4: Szell/Clev; Bernstein/NYP '60
> #5: Schwarz/LSO '59; Chailly/RCO; Barshai/Junge Deutsche
> #6: Abbado/BPO; Herbig/Saarbrucken
> #7: Chailly/RCO; Gielen/SWR Baden; Gergiev/LSO
> #9: Boulez/Chic; Chailly/RCO


Great first post, welcome to Talk Classical.


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## jegreenwood

CanadianMaestro said:


> My favorite recordings ("Five Stars"):
> 
> #1, Solti/LSO '64
> #2, Mehta/VPO; Bernstein/NYP '87
> #3, Bernstein/NYP '61
> #4, Klemperer/Phil
> #5, Bernstein/VPO
> #6, Bernstein/VPO
> #7, Bernstein/NYP '65; Abbado/Chic
> #8, Abbado/BPO
> #9, Bernstein '79/Rattle 2007, both BPO
> 
> Also Worthy:
> #1: Walter/Columbia
> #2: Solti/LSO '66
> #3: Chailly/RCO; Bychkov/Koln
> #4: Szell/Clev; Bernstein/NYP '60
> #5: Schwarz/LSO '59; Chailly/RCO; Barshai/Junge Deutsche
> #6: Abbado/BPO; Herbig/Saarbrucken
> #7: Chailly/RCO; Gielen/SWR Baden; Gergiev/LSO
> #9: Boulez/Chic; Chailly/RCO


Have we exchanged opinions on Head-fi?


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## Oakey

I have the Rattle set, like it very much. Now I am curious about the Bertstein and Chailly ones, never heard them but will give them both a listen.


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## CanadianMaestro

jegreenwood said:


> Have we exchanged opinions on Head-fi?


Likely. :cheers:

In any case, more here at my other sites:

https://www.head-fi.org/members/canadianmaestro.372518/
https://sites.google.com/site/favoriterecordings/

cheers


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## CanadianMaestro

Does anyone recommend Gielen's Das Lied von der Erde with Cornelia Kallisch (mezzo) (Hanssler) and the SWR Baden?
I have Ferrier/Walter, which is a legendary recording.


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## CanadianMaestro

Does anyone recommend Gielen's Das Lied von der Erde with Cornelia Kallisch (mezzo) (Hanssler) and the SWR Baden?
I have Ferrier/Walter, which is a legendary recording.


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## Merl

I've not heard Gielen's DLVE but his cycle is solidly good, especially 5,6 and 7, for me. Haven't listened to the others in aong times, tbh. Time for a re-appraisal? It's been a coupe of years since I heard them. Much. Better than De Waart's 'nice' but boring cycle though.


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## AfterHours

CanadianMaestro said:


> Does anyone recommend Gielen's Das Lied von der Erde with Cornelia Kallisch (mezzo) (Hanssler) and the SWR Baden?
> I have Ferrier/Walter, which is a legendary recording.


I wouldn't recommend it over the astounding Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich Das Lied, which I feel is the greatest ever (with Haitink/Baker/King its closest challenger and possibly its equal, then probably Oue/DeYoung/Villars and Kletzki/Fischer-Dieskau/Dickie the next closest)


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## wkasimer

AfterHours said:


> I wouldn't recommend it over the astounding Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich Das Lied, which I feel is the greatest ever (with Haitink/Baker/King its closest challenger and possibly its equal, then probably Oue/DeYoung/Villars and Kletzki/Fischer-Dieskau/Dickie the next closest)


Bertini with Heppner and Lipovsek is my go-to Das Lied.


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## Pugg

Ludwig/ Wunderlich/ Klemperer, unbeatable .


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## Granate

Oakey said:


> I have the Rattle set, like it very much. Now I am curious about the Bertstein and Chailly ones, never heard them but will give them both a listen.


Both have pretty good No.5s (well, that Bernstein Vienna is legendary).
I am also quite fond of the Rattle set. All my respects to his Mahler work (except his M10 zzzzzzzz).


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## SixFootScowl




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## Larkenfield

If one is into Mahler, I wouldn’t settle for only one set by anyone. What’s fascinating about the composer is that no one has the final say even if they might seem to come close.


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## SixFootScowl

Larkenfield said:


> If one is into Mahler, I wouldn't settle for only one set by anyone. What's fascinating about the composer is that no one has the final say even if they might seem to come close.


Yep. I also have the Bernstein set and some miscellaneous performances. In fact, just bought another 5th last week.


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## Becca

My personal opinion is that no conductor does all of the symphonies equally well. In some cases they even admit that they don't sufficiently 'get' individual symphonies and so don't perform them. I happen to like quite a few of Simon Rattle's performances but, for example, I don't care for his 2nd. Klemperer did many very well, but his 7th ... no thanks. Bernstein, IMO, really distorts some of the later symphonies by adopting unreasonably slow tempi. The only good solution if someone is to get good versions of all is to pick and choose. My current picks are...

1 - Barbirolli / Halle
2 - Klemperer / Philharmonia (maybe BRSO instead, check with me in a few days!) - possibly also Barbirolli / Stuttgart (live)
3 - Tennstedt / LPO (live performance)
4 - Rattle / Shafer / BPO (live performance) - possibly also Barbirolli / Harper / BBCSO (live/Prague)
5 - Barbirolli / New Philharmonia
6 - T. Sanderling / St. Petersburg Phil.
7 - Abbado / CSO
8 - Rattle / National Youth Orchestra (live/Proms)
9 - Rattle / BPO & Barbirolli / BPO
10 - Harding / VPO (Cooke III)

The Rattle 4th is only available in their Digital Concert Hall archive.

There is a live Proms performance of the 6th with Barbirolli, done around the same time as his studio recording which potentially could be on this list but so far I have only been able to access the 1st movement.

P.S. There are very personal reasons for not including Das Lied von der Erde


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## RBM

My ideal Mahler cycle is as follows:
Das klagende Lied: Tilson Thomas/San Francisco Symphony 
1: Ozawa/Saito Kinen Orchestra
2: Litton/Dallas Symphony Orchestra
3: Bernstein/New York Philharmonic (1987)
4: Fischer/Budapest Festival Orchestra
5: Levine/Philadelphia Orchestra
6: Sanderling/St. Petersburg Philharmonic
7: Bertini/WDR Symphony Orchestra Cologne
8: Tennstedt/London Philharmonic (1991)
Das Lied von der Erde: Solti/Kollo/Minton/ Chicago Symphony Orchestra
9: Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic
10: Lan Shui/Singapore Symphony (Carpenter version)


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