# How much would a professional composer compose per day/week?



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

I know this can't have a definive answer, but I think for composers such as myself (and many that I know in TC), it could be beneficial to our own progress as composers.

In this situation, we can put well-known composers (especially proficient ones) and look at their compositional procedures/how they approach large amounts of music, how they write so many pieces in short spaces of time etc. To try to learn something here. 

I think this thread will be helpful for other composers, so let's start! :tiphat:


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

So, this is a discussion (obviously) and I don't have the answers, but a place that may be good to start at is composers sketches. Such as: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Stravinsky, Shostakovich etc.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

_How much would a professional composer compose per day/week?_

It is extremely individual and tells nothing about the quality of the music.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

premont said:


> _How much would a professional composer compose per day/week?_
> 
> It is extremely individual and tells nothing about the quality of the music.


Did you read the rest of it??
It's a given that it's individualistic, that's what this thread is. Looking at different composers compositional practices and the average amount they composed


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## Yombie (Jun 16, 2016)

I can't really comment on composers, but I will compare it to another form of art of which I am very familiar with. When I paint, which I do as my sole vocation, I will paint 5-15+ hours at a time, often forgoing meals if there's wet paint on my easel, across multiple paintings, often around 3-4 different ones simultaneously. It's often the case a color I have an excess of is required for another painting, or a streak of inspiration strikes me which might apply to a painting I had not been working on, this process repeats until I am too tired to continue. 

When I make music, it's similar. I found that even when I am not actively thinking about it, random note progressions will often kind of haunt me hours after listening to classical or instrumental music. I've not had any real outside influences on the development of my artistic or musical education due to being unlearned, so perhaps it's different than the normal procedure.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Telemann, apparently, composed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for 86 years.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Having a non-composer interest in this thread, I am going to ask two of the people that I know who have commissioned pieces what they paid. Both these individuals commissioned works for a single instrument. I was prompted to consider the idea for myself because since I've entered this new phase of my music listening I see that commissioning music is going all the time all over the place at all levels.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Xenakiboy said:


> So, this is a discussion (obviously) and I don't have the answers, but a place that may be good to start at is composers sketches. Such as: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Stravinsky, Shostakovich etc.


:XenakisB: I love your enthusiasm and ambition but I think it would be more realistic to start with new composers and much less famous composers. I am sure people here on TC could give you a sense of that. Of course I would also imagine it's going to vary by music type: single instrument, single voice and instrument, chamber work, or probably the most costly of all symphonies and soundtracks.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> :XenakisB: I love your enthusiasm and ambition but I think it would be more realistic to start with new composers and much less famous composers. I am sure people here on TC could give you a sense of that. Of course I would also imagine it's going to vary by music type: single instrument, single voice and instrument, chamber work, or probably the most costly of all symphonies and soundtracks.


I say those because they are generally the models from the whole genre and they where prolific, so I'd think they'd be a good thing to analyse?

Yes, solo instrumentalist pieces may be an interesting thing to look at!


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## zhopin (Apr 7, 2016)

I know this doesn't apply to all composers, but Wagner wasn't very constant with writing music. He went through phases, often taking long breaks in between.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Xenakiboy said:


> I say those because they are generally the models from the whole genre and they where prolific, so I'd think they'd be a good thing to analyse?
> 
> Yes, solo instrumentalist pieces may be an interesting thing to look at!


But you have chosen people from completely different social structures and time periods: At various stages Bach was paid by a court, the Lutheran Church (which was still relatively one institution in the Germanic lands of Bach's time), and Zimmerman's Coffee House; also you have to take into account his person style--Bach was a very frugal man, but also a humble man. It would be interesting to compare his various salaries (and tremendous corresponding responsibilities!!! read what was required of him by the Church in Leipzig) to Monteverdi who considered himself God's gift to humanity and let everyone know that....

This above is one example. Think about what James Horner made per soundtrack to say Schnittke when he was starting out because I believe that is how he started out to support himself: soundtracks.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

zhopin said:


> I know this doesn't apply to all composers, but Wagner wasn't very constant with writing music. He went through phases, often taking long breaks in between.


Precisely :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I can't help but think (again) of Brahms's response when asked how he had spent his day (from memory). "I spent the morning adding an eighth note to the first movement of my symphony. I spent the afternoon taking it out again."


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

zhopin said:


> I know this doesn't apply to all composers, but Wagner wasn't very constant with writing music. He went through phases, often taking long breaks in between.


But they weren't really breaks. He wasn't just writing music; each opera required a vast amount of background research into subjects for treatment, theoretical conceptualization of both dramatic presentation and musical style, and the drafting of scenarios and libretti. All of that took more time than the actual writing of the music. Additionally, he wrote essays about many subjects musical and nonmusical, conducted concerts, directed the Dresden opera early in his career, and founded and directed the Bayreuth Festival toward the end.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

zhopin said:


> I know this doesn't apply to all composers, but Wagner wasn't very constant with writing music. He went through phases, often taking long breaks in between.


That's not the point though, it doesn't matter if he stopped composing for 30 years.
I never stated it was about specifically prolific composers anyway, prolific ones help in this discussion though because they where composers that found a pattern or a routine which allowed them to compose such large amounts of music!

May I add though that Wagner composed LARGE works of music, those operas aren't for the faint-hearted


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

KenOC said:


> I can't help but think (again) of Brahms's response when asked how he had spent his day (from memory). "I spent the morning adding an eighth note to the first movement of my symphony. I spent the afternoon taking it out again."


I love that quote!


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## zhopin (Apr 7, 2016)

Xenakiboy said:


> That's not the point though, it doesn't matter if he stopped composing for 30 years.
> I never stated it was about specifically prolific composers anyway, prolific ones help in this discussion though because they where composers that found a pattern or a routine which allowed them to compose such large amounts of music!
> 
> May I add though that Wagner composed LARGE works of music, those operas aren't for the faint-hearted


Yeah, I see your point. His operas _were_ very long - too long for many members of the audience to appreciate...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

zhopin said:


> Yeah, I see your point. His operas _were_ very long - too long for many members of the audience to appreciate...


Not according to all his fans though.


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## Samuel Kristopher (Nov 4, 2015)

> Yeah, I see your point. His operas were very long - too long for many members of the audience to appreciate...


WHAT IS THIS HEATHEN NONSENSE?????

Joking aside, we shouldn't forget the oft-forgotten composer Simon Sechter, who allegedly wrote around 5,000 fugues (he tried to write a fugue every day for most of his working life).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Samuel Kristopher said:


> WHAT IS THIS HEATHEN NONSENSE?????
> 
> Joking aside, we shouldn't forget the oft-forgotten composer Simon Sechter, who allegedly wrote around 5,000 fugues (he tried to write a fugue every day for most of his working life).


Well! _I'm_ certainly not one of those who would forget such a distinguished musical figure! 

I'm one of those who never heard of him to begin with.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Joking aside, we shouldn't forget the oft-forgotten composer Simon Sechter, who allegedly wrote around 5,000 fugues (he tried to write a fugue every day for most of his working life).


Teacher of Anton Bruckner, and the man who held him back from composing anything for years? Yeah, I remember him.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Mozart wrote the Linz symphony in about four days!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

According to reminiscences of both Shostakovich and Prokofiev's second wife Mira Mendelssohn, Prokofiev actually sat down to compose from sometime in the morning until about 1 or 2 PM, and then would return to composition sometime between 5 and 8 PM, and work well into the night. He composed every day, allegedly, when not performing or otherwise engaged in necessary activities of life, and was always scribbling themes into a notebook he carried for the purpose. Mendelssohn-Prokofiev maintained that Prokofiev was always actively thinking about his music, and despaired whenever he was forced to give it up for whatever reasons. No specifics are provided as to lines per day or whatever; it's just testimony of constant involvement with composing.


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## zhopin (Apr 7, 2016)

Message deleted, I was becoming off-topic


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

zhopin said:


> Message deleted, I was becoming off-topic


Self knowledge is a great virtue.:tiphat:


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

I've recently commissioned two works from two different professional composers.

One wrote an unaccompanied piece which is 4'30" long for 6-part choir. It took him about 4 hours.

The second was an unaccompanied choral suite of 5 movements, lasting 17'40". It took over 6 months. The composer was working on other pieces at the same time.

The American composer Carson Cooman seems to compose at a phenomenal rate (Google him, see he's young and how many pieces he's composed).

The French composer Duruflé was one of the slowest composers ever. He spent a great deal of his time reviewing his work, making very slight changes.

I'm not sure you're going to find a definitive answer but a small number of composers simply pour out pieces as if their brains were crammed full with compositions from birth. Others take ages. I spent 6 months writing a choral mass - and it's rubbish!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I would think Cage's 4'33" didn't take very long once he'd got the idea. I do know someone who worked with Britten as a copyist said that britten wrote his music faster than they could copy it.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Johann Sebastian Bach said:


> I've recently commissioned two works from two different professional composers.
> 
> One wrote an unaccompanied piece which is 4'30" long for 6-part choir. It took him about 4 hours.
> 
> ...


Good to see you, JSBach! Would you mind sharing the price you paid for these commissions? Also, how much license did you give the composers? I would imagine that varies tremendously upon the commissioner and for what particular reason s/he commissions the piece.


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

JosefinaHW said:


> Good to see you, JSBach! Would you mind sharing the price you paid for these commissions? Also, how much license did you give the composers? I would imagine that varies tremendously upon the commissioner and for what particular reason s/he commissions the piece.


I think it's better that I don't air publicly the price paid, except to say that two of the professional bodies in the UK which represent the profession (Incorporated Society of Musicians and Making Music) have pages on their website which recommend fees. We pay this as "the going rate".

I gave one composer plenty of guidance because he's only recently started his career. I told him the length of the piece, the mood and gave him the text. The suite comes from the pen of a very experienced composer who I've known for years. We therefore trust each other. I supplied him with the text of five poems and an explanation of their derivation and effect on me.


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## John T (May 5, 2016)

Mahlerian said:


> Teacher of Anton Bruckner, and the man who held him back from composing anything for years? Yeah, I remember him.


Perhaps you forgot to forget him.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Johann Sebastian Bach said:


> The American composer Carson Cooman seems to compose at a phenomenal rate (Google him, see he's young and how many pieces he's composed).


I haven't heard a note from him, but I saw his website. That's a little scary!!! 
Kind of like Leif Segerstam's Symphonies....


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

:Xenakiboy: Well that's quite a change in your avatar.  I realize that I totally misread your OP: you know the expression about burning the candle at two ends? Well my whole candle fell into the fire-pit last week.  Sorry, about going off the track of the OP.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> :Xenakiboy: Well that's quite a change in your avatar.  I realize that I totally misread your OP: you know the expression about burning the candle at two ends? Well my whole candle fell into the fire-pit last week. Sorry, about going off the track of the OP.


Most people have misread it, which is funny :lol: and frustrating! 

 :tiphat:

Yeah, I've been experimenting with my avatar the last few days, trying to find something that works!


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