# Puritans versus Caviar Socialist



## Vaneyes

France's "caviar socialist" Dominique Strauss-Kahn is in a world of hurt this time. He's taken his act to America and promptly been caught. All of a sudden, Obama and his Seals aren't Page One anymore.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2071693,00.html


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## Guest

Hmm, I love the title of that piece. Was it the title the author gave it, or did someone else along the line add it. Interesting - the phrasing. DSK must now "brace for the wrath of American Puritanism." I realize that continental Europe has long sheltered people like Roman Polanski from "American Puritanism," but am I to understand from the author that sexual assault and attempted rape are only viewed as serious concerns in "puritan" America? Are French politicians free to engage in sexual assault and attempted rape without repercussions on their political aspirations? I suspect not. I find it hard to believe that such activities would be countenanced by any European country.

While the U.S. is not ready for a Sylvio Berlusconi to step into the chief executive office, I don't think the outrage over the alleged crimes of DSK should be impugned simply because Americans are more "puritanical" than others.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Hmm, I love the title of that piece. Was it the title the author gave it, or did someone else along the line add it. Interesting - the phrasing. DSK must now "brace for the wrath of American Puritanism." I realize that continental Europe has long sheltered people like Roman Polanski from "American Puritanism," but am I to understand from the author that sexual assault and attempted rape are only viewed as serious concerns in "puritan" America? Are French politicians free to engage in sexual assault and attempted rape without repercussions on their political aspirations? I suspect not. I find it hard to believe that such activities would be countenanced by any European country.
> 
> While the U.S. is not ready for a Sylvio Berlusconi to step into the chief executive office, I don't think the outrage over the alleged crimes of DSK should be impugned simply because Americans are more "puritanical" than others.


A catchy headline, which has some truth in it, but DSK's quagmire may hinge on two things. One, NYC being a leader in prosecuting sex crimes against women, and Two, a pattern of sex assaults.

DSK/2002

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_18072760?nclick_check=1


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## Ukko

The 1st article appears to have been written by an idiot.


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## Guest

Hilltroll72 said:


> The 1st article appears to have been written by an idiot.


Agreed - such a shame this man should have his political career put in jeopardy over something so trivial as sexual assault and attempted rape followed by attempting to flee the jurisdiction.


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## Aramis




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## TxllxT

I hoped this had a tiny little grain of truth in it.


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## Vaneyes

DSK's Monday court appearance...

http://www.nypost.com/video?vxSiteId=fe3e21a8-49f1-4cec-9ba5-cfe372fa6572&vxChannel=PostTopFilmStrip&vxClipId=1458_1221636&vxBitrate=700


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## Almaviva

Wow! How much more idiotic can this article by _Le Nouvel Observateur_ be? 
In no part of it there is any mention that what this guy allegedly did is actually, if proven to have happened as claimed, wrong!!!
All that the article does is a relentless attack on American puritanism and politicians.
Then it compares what this guy allegedly did to what Tiger Woods did.
That I know, Tiger Woods' partners were consenting adults. He didn't run naked after them while they were trying to do their work, caught them, and forced himself into them repeatedly. And what the American politicians mentioned in the article did was also done with consenting adults.
Can this journalist see any difference between sexual assault/attempted rape and consensual sex?
The article seems to whine about what we'll say of the French after this (depraved and coward), and makes this all sound very unfair to the poor French.
Mr. Journalist, there was a very easy way for Mr. DSK and his compatriots to avoid any criticism: only engage in sexual acts with women who are actually willing to do it with them. And no, I won't say that the French as a whole are depraved and coward - I'm not in the habit of condemning a whole nation for the actions of one of their sons. I'll say, though, if proven guilty after due process runs its course, that *this* Frenchman is depraved and coward.


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## Vaneyes

Almaviva said:


> Wow! How much more idiotic can this article by _Le Nouvel Observateur_ be?
> In no part of it there is any mention that what this guy allegedly did is actually, if proven, wrong!!!
> All that the article does is a relentless attack on American puritanism and politicians.
> Then it compares what this guy allegedly did to what Tiger Woods did.
> That I know, Tiger Woods' partners were consenting adults. He didn't run naked after them while they were trying to do their work, caught them, and forced himself into them repeatedly. And what the American politicians mentioned in the article did was also done with consenting adults.
> Can this journalist see any difference between sexual assault/attempted rape and consensual sex?
> The article seems to whine about what we'll say of the French after this (depraved and coward), and makes this all sound very unfair to the poor French.
> Mr. Journalist, there was a very easy way for Mr. DSK and his compatriots to avoid any criticism: only engage in sexual acts with women who are actually willing to do it with them. And no, I won't say that the French as a whole are depraved and coward - I'm not in the habit of condemning a whole nation for the actions of one of their sons. I'll say, though, if proven guilty after due process runs its course, that *this* Frenchman is depraved and coward.


The Independent view...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/dominique-strausskahn-whats-in-a-reputation-2284965.html


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## Almaviva

Vaneyes said:


> The Independent view...
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...trausskahn-whats-in-a-reputation-2284965.html


Much, much better, and it's balanced view makes the French publication look even worse.


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## Guest

I think I have issues with this derision of "puritan" America and how that should be something shameful, as opposed to the laissez faire approach to sexual activities among politicians that seems to be taken, at least in France.

I think most Americans don't assume their politicians are Puritans. But we do actually expect them to hold their passions in check. Why? Well, as we can see in the case of Mr. Berlusconi in Italy, it can certainly distract them from what they should be doing. In the case of Mr. Spitzer in New York, it sets him up for a huge conflict of interest and calls into question his other actions, not to mention puts him in a precarious position. Open to blackmail?

For me, I find it hard to believe that a man will live up to the political promises he makes if he can't live up to the personal promises he makes to his wife. I am immediately suspect. If he can lie to someone he knows so closely and intimately, what guarantee do I have that he'll keep promises made to a mass of people he has never met?

But another issue is this - what good is a man who can't keep his passions in check, can't show moderation? Nobody has a problem with electing a politician who enjoys a glass of wine, a beer, some fine Scotch. Drinking alcohol is an accepted thing. But taken to its extreme, and it is no longer so innocuous. Who wants a drunk deciding national affairs. Who wants a binge drinker with their finger on the button? It goes to the heart of whether the person can control themselves. Someone with no self control is useless. So DSK enjoys women, is attracted to them? So what? What red-blooded heterosexual man isn't? But the vast majority of us manage to not leave a trail of allegations of sexual assault in our wake. Their is no logical bridge between being attracted to women and forcing yourself upon them, just as there is no link between enjoying a fine wine and drinking yourself senseless, or enjoying good food and stuffing yourself to the point of gluttony. This man treats women like his personal sex toys, and passes it off as a harmless attraction to the fairer sex. It is no more acceptable than is binge drinking and alcoholism or gluttony. Such a person has no place in a high position of power. And if the French press can't see that, then they are poor informers of the French populace, and are worse than useless.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> I think I have issues with this derision of "puritan" America and how that should be something shameful, as opposed to the laissez faire approach to sexual activities among politicians that seems to be taken, at least in France.
> 
> I think most Americans don't assume their politicians are Puritans. But we do actually expect them to hold their passions in check. Why? Well, as we can see in the case of Mr. Berlusconi in Italy, it can certainly distract them from what they should be doing. In the case of Mr. Spitzer in New York, it sets him up for a huge conflict of interest and calls into question his other actions, not to mention puts him in a precarious position. Open to blackmail?
> 
> For me, I find it hard to believe that a man will live up to the political promises he makes if he can't live up to the personal promises he makes to his wife. I am immediately suspect. If he can lie to someone he knows so closely and intimately, what guarantee do I have that he'll keep promises made to a mass of people he has never met?
> 
> But another issue is this - what good is a man who can't keep his passions in check, can't show moderation? Nobody has a problem with electing a politician who enjoys a glass of wine, a beer, some fine Scotch. Drinking alcohol is an accepted thing. But taken to its extreme, and it is no longer so innocuous. Who wants a drunk deciding national affairs. Who wants a binge drinker with their finger on the button? It goes to the heart of whether the person can control themselves. Someone with no self control is useless. So DSK enjoys women, is attracted to them? So what? What red-blooded heterosexual man isn't? But the vast majority of us manage to not leave a trail of allegations of sexual assault in our wake. Their is no logical bridge between being attracted to women and forcing yourself upon them, just as there is no link between enjoying a fine wine and drinking yourself senseless, or enjoying good food and stuffing yourself to the point of gluttony. This man treats women like his personal sex toys, and passes it off as a harmless attraction to the fairer sex. It is no more acceptable than is binge drinking and alcoholism or gluttony. Such a person has no place in a high position of power. And if the French press can't see that, then they are poor informers of the French populace, and are worse than useless.


The morals lesson is well taken, but I think some are getting too wound up about one faction of the French press. There is another that is tired of their country's privacy laws and extremely outdated chauvinism.

During DSK's current crisis some of them are attempting to circumvent the French government's reporting preference. Their news is often suppressed, as their women obviously have been. Slowly but surely much of Europe is changing in this regard, and much of it is due to good balanced still-in-the-minority press. What's happening in Italy was unthinkable just a few years ago.

Some are also too bruised by the Puritanical label. Some of that label is still warranted, but it's slowly fading, too. Except maybe for some backdoor (liquor store) Baptists.


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## Vaneyes

The Telegraph reports that DSK spent Monday night on a thin mattress in a bare, 11ft-by-13ft cell, digesting a dinner of turkey burgers, carrots, and mashed potato.

Sofitel to Rikers. Damn.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> The Telegraph reports that DSK spent Monday night on a thin mattress in a bare, 11ft-by-13ft cell, digesting a dinner of turkey burgers, carrots, and mashed potato.
> 
> Sofitel to Rikers. Damn.


Still, much more in line with his Socialist sensibilities, I should think.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Still, much more in line with his Socialist sensibilities, I should think.


Yes, and along the same line in my personal mail, "Think of it in terms of frugality. From 3000K per night to a gated community at government expense."


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Yes, and along the same line in my personal mail, "Think of it in terms of frugality. From 3000K per night to a gated community at government expense."


By the way, I had turkey burgers, carrots, and mashed potatoes just last week! What's wrong with that? I'm sure my wife's cooking, though, was much better than the head chef at Rikers.:lol:


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> By the way, I had turkey burgers, carrots, and mashed potatoes just last week! What's wrong with that? I'm sure my wife's cooking, though, was much better than the head chef at Rikers.:lol:


Due to popular demand, additional Rikers menus are detailed in this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387871/IMF-chief-Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-inmate-notorious-Riker-Island-Jail.html


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> Still, much more in line with his Socialist sensibilities, I should think.


It's now known that DSK/IMF received a discount rate of $800 per night at Sofitel. Far below the much publicized $3000.

The gated community of Rikers Island, at which he now resides, is about $200 a night. Government aka taxpayer picks that up.


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## Vaneyes

NY Post reports that DSK's alleged victim lives in AIDS housing. That'll give Team Brafman more to think on.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/imf_accuser_in_apt_for_hiv_vics_oZmUkbtouJ14RHw1434HvJ


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## Guest

So if I understand correctly, the general opinion of this guy in France was that he was someone they would love to have run their country but not allow anywhere near their daughters?

It seems to me that France may want a little bit of our puritan spirit. Despite our puritanical view of how politicians should acquit themselves, once in power, a great many still tend to get into trouble. So if a libertine lifestyle is already considered acceptable over there in France (and I have read where a healthy libido is often praised over there in male politicians), then it makes sense that those who overstep the bounds are going to do so in more egregious ways. If you draw that line in the sand a lot more conservatively, then overstepping it isn't quite as bad as if the line were drawn more liberally.

At any rate, the more details leak out, the more repulsive this man appears. What I find incredibly sad is that it took the sexual assault of a woman to make people finally admit what a cretin he is. From all I have read, this man has been abetted in his activities by any number of people. Even the IMF only gave him a slap on the wrist for an improper sexual relationship with a subordinate at the IMF.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> So if I understand correctly, the general opinion of this guy in France was that he was someone they would love to have run their country but not allow anywhere near their daughters?
> 
> It seems to me that France may want a little bit of our puritan spirit. Despite our puritanical view of how politicians should acquit themselves, once in power, a great many still tend to get into trouble. So if a libertine lifestyle is already considered acceptable over there in France (and I have read where a healthy libido is often praised over there in male politicians), then it makes sense that those who overstep the bounds are going to do so in more egregious ways. If you draw that line in the sand a lot more conservatively, then overstepping it isn't quite as bad as if the line were drawn more liberally.
> 
> At any rate, the more details leak out, the more repulsive this man appears. What I find incredibly sad is that it took the sexual assault of a woman to make people finally admit what a cretin he is. From all I have read, this man has been abetted in his activities by any number of people. Even the IMF only gave him a slap on the wrist for an improper sexual relationship with a subordinate at the IMF.


There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around. No one has the edge on that.

I noticed a reader's (who lives in France) comment to one of the US articles yesterday. He was happy the Americans caught this guy. His feeling was that it was long overdue and wouldn't have happened in France. He also stated that was the opinion of many in France.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> There's plenty of hypocrisy to go around. No one has the edge on that.
> 
> I noticed a reader's (who lives in France) comment to one of the US articles yesterday. He was happy the Americans caught this guy. His feeling was that it was long overdue and wouldn't have happened in France. He also stated that was the opinion of many in France.


That might be the opinion of many in France, but how much is "many?" Because recent polls before this scandal suggested that, were he to run, he might pick up more than 60 percent of the vote.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> That might be the opinion of many in France, but how much is "many?" Because recent polls before this scandal suggested that, were he to run, he might pick up more than 60 percent of the vote.


How many? is usually the cry about growing undercurrent, and it doesn't really matter whose poll said what anymore. We can only hope that *most* of the French can grow from this.


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## Vaneyes

A look at the Perp Walk...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/18/strausskahn-perpwalk-idUSN1828148020110518

DSK mugshot...


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## emiellucifuge

Im sorry... why are people in this thread talking as if he has already been convicted?

This could very well be Sarkozy's setup, and after all - innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.


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## Almaviva

emiellucifuge said:


> Im sorry... why are people in this thread talking as if he has already been convicted?
> 
> This could very well be Sarkozy's setup, and after all - innocent until proven guilty by a court of law.


No, I said "if proven to have happened as claimed" and said "if proven guilty after due process runs its course."
And we shouldn't start the conspiracy theories. I've read in French sources that Sarkozy actually had no reason to fear him, and wasn't worried about his candidacy at all.


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## emiellucifuge

Perhaps not you Alma..



DrMike said:


> What I find incredibly sad is that it took the sexual assault of a woman to make people finally admit what a cretin he is.


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## Guest

emiellucifuge said:


> Perhaps not you Alma..


From all accounts, even if you ignore this latest event, the man is still a lecher. Even if he is exonerated here, does that make any of the other characterizations of him any less true? Would you allow your daughter around him?


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## Vaneyes

By way of CNN In the Arena (5/19/11), perspective on what's ahead for DSK and his alleged victim. Spitzer (some irony here) interviews former NYC sex crimes prosecutor Linda Fairstein.

Video

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2011/05/19/exp.arena.victim.strauss.kahn.cnn.html

Transcript

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1105/19/ita.01.html


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> By way of CNN In the Arena (5/19/11), perspective on what's ahead for DSK and his alleged victim. Spitzer (some irony here) interviews former NYC sex crimes prosecutor Linda Fairstein.
> 
> Video
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2011/05/19/exp.arena.victim.strauss.kahn.cnn.html
> 
> Transcript
> 
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1105/19/ita.01.html


CNN ran a piece the other day, in the wake of DSK and Schwarzenegger, profiling sex scandals among politicians, and conspicuously omited Spitzer!


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## Vaneyes

Widespread European corporate culture?

"IMF's Culture of Sleaze"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389082/Revealed-Sleaze-lawless-corridors-IMF-women-afraid-wear-skirts-affair-threatens-sink-man-tipped-Strauss-Kahns-job.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3591047/IMF-chief-Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-roughed-up-two-hookers-high-class-madam-claims.html

Munich Re rewards policy

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3591736/Firm-laid-hookers-orgy-for-staff.html


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## Vaneyes

New IMF chiefess TBA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8527237/Christine-Lagarde-in-front-to-replace-Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-as-head-of-IMF.html


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## Vaneyes

"There is no doubt that Ms. Sinclair was aware of her husband's skirt-chasing, but in public, at least, seemed not to care."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/21/world/europe/21sinclair.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp


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## Vaneyes

"What is it about this city that attracts egotistical scum unfit to lick one's shoe? People who have no respect for decent American values?"

http://gothamist.com/2011/05/21/imf.php


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## Almaviva

Oh! My! God! The French are just going crazy!
See this quote from the article Vaneyes has posted above, by a major *female *French social comentator: "* just another minor alleged crime."*
If proven to have happened as claimed and if the guy is guilty after due process runs its course, what exactly is minor about chasing an unwilling woman down a hallway, shoving her into a bedroom, and forcefully shoving one's zizi into her mouth???? Would this female comentator be this _blasé_, had it happened to her?


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## Vaneyes

"How Dominique Strauss-Kahn's arrest awoke a dormant anger in the heart of France's women"

"Some observers believe that the stereotypical grand séducteur image of the Gallic male is becoming outmoded among a younger generation."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/22/dominique-strauss-kahn-arrest-dormant-anger-france-women


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## jhar26

DrMike said:


> So if I understand correctly, the general opinion of this guy in France was that he was someone they would love to have run their country but not allow anywhere near their daughters?
> 
> It seems to me that France may want a little bit of our puritan spirit. Despite our puritanical view of how politicians should acquit themselves, once in power, a great many still tend to get into trouble. So if a libertine lifestyle is already considered acceptable over there in France (and I have read where a healthy libido is often praised over there in male politicians), then it makes sense that those who overstep the bounds are going to do so in more egregious ways. If you draw that line in the sand a lot more conservatively, then overstepping it isn't quite as bad as if the line were drawn more liberally.
> 
> At any rate, the more details leak out, the more repulsive this man appears. What I find incredibly sad is that it took the sexual assault of a woman to make people finally admit what a cretin he is. From all I have read, this man has been abetted in his activities by any number of people. Even the IMF only gave him a slap on the wrist for an improper sexual relationship with a subordinate at the IMF.


What makes me sad that women are apparently even in the so-called 'civilized world' to which France belongs still viewed as second rate citizens. I wonder what the reaction would have been if he had attempted to rape a boy instead of a girl. This whole thing has nothing to do - or should have nothing to do with American versus European attitudes towards sex. This lady was not a consenting adult. This is a case of an attempt to rape somebody which should be treated the same way everywhere, irrelevant about how one feels about a promiscuous lifestyle.


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## Vaneyes

A sobering fact...

"Relatively few criminal charges wind up in a trial. Of more than 300,000 criminal cases in New York City in 2009, fewer than 500 went to trial and only 258 ended in convictions."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/15/us-strausskahn-steps-idUSTRE74E3OY20110515


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## Vaneyes

"Pepe le Pew" is a new nickname for DSK aka "Caviar Socialist" or "The Grand Seducer". He better be careful if he's surfing, because his new neighbor is infamous computer hacker Andrew "Escher" aka "Weev" Aurenheimer. What a building!

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-f...auss-kahn-becomes-madoff-style-cyber-prisoner

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/441024.php

http://www.fastcompany.com/1660623/crib-sheet-andrew-auernheimer-atts-ipad-hacker


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## Vaneyes

It seems every waking minute involved a hit by The Grand Seducer.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3594785/IMF-chiefs-bum-leer-at-airline-hostess.html

http://www.smh.com.au/business/eximf-chief-in-new-sex-claims-20110522-1eyvz.html


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## Vaneyes

It's a match. If it fits, you must convict. Isn't that how it goes?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520804576341780296769862.html


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## Vaneyes

Accuser payoff? And, "He is now hunting for a townhouse so he doesn't have to deal with belligerent co-op and condo boards, and has a $50,000 monthly budget, sources said."

Lots of leaks, maybe he'd be better back at Rikers. Meanwhile, the police deny the earlier report/leak of a DNA match.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/maid_offer_ya_can_refuse_joKw8dxbw6AkYOmJsEZiaN

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/new-york-police-deny-report-on-strausskahn-dna-20110524-1f2pn.html


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## Almaviva

This is interesting, about how the French have behaved regarding his chronic (criminal?) behavior:

"Because it is impossible to engage in this kind of behavior with impunity, and especially over the long term, without an enabling system in place. That enabling system consists of the fixers who clean up afterwards -- by hiding evidence, by discouraging victims from seeking justice (whether through persuasion, bribe or threat), and by using euphemisms such as "seduction" to describe coercion or rape."

"I also wonder whether we would have even heard of the latest accusations had they occurred in Paris, where the pressures that would have been brought to bear -- by the fixers and enablers -- on an African immigrant and single mother struggling to get by on a working-class salary might have convinced her that it was in her best interest to keep quiet."

Source:

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/...strauss-kahn-and-the-presumption-of-innocence


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## Vaneyes

Team DSK miscalculated. BTW DSK and mostly wife Anne are supposedly worth only $70M. Anyhoo, looking way ahead, a successful civil suit would likely net the maid many more $$$, than what's just been offered.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/we_re_above_material_things_even_uXCV27CkvdPTQzdOHBKAKJ


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## Vaneyes

"Sex Monster" moves.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sides_agree_kahn_new_location_for_2LivNFoPUdd57uRWPlwpVK


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## Vaneyes

Team DSK attack accuser's credibility, simultaneously complaining about leakage. It's not uncommon to have drip, drip, drip, from both sides in high profile cases. As battle ranks form for trial, a judge will firmly discourage such behavior. Drip, drip, drip may be slowed to drip...drip...drip.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/26/dominique-strauss-kahn-rape-credibility

Strauss-Kahn & Genghis Kahn? Leaks from the prosecution should be the least of Team DSK worries.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3603571/Strauss-Kahns-three-in-a-bed.html


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## Vaneyes

The battle ranks continue to form, as Team Maid lawyers up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-26/strauss-kahn-rape-accuser-adds-counsel-expecting-attack-on-her-reputation.html

Shark barred. Reminded me of that old SNL skit, "Telegram."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iehcUKfmmc0NekS-kZtl5iqWbnmw?docId=CNG.6c8821f1f24bf3cc28ce49877278ef6e.651


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## Vaneyes

"DSK's lawyers hire team to investigate accuser's life"

A common procedure, but I'd wager DSK has more baggage. The trial judge will ultimately rule on how much baggage will be brought forth, which I'd wager again, will be minimal.

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...eam-to-investigate-accusers-life-2660769.html


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## Vaneyes

Team DSK - The Suits, The Fixer, The Muscle, The Wise Guys.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/05/introducing-strauss-kahns-crisis-dream-team/38275/


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## Vaneyes

Team Maid

The Independent, May 31. 2011

The Prosecution...

Cyrus Vance Jr: The son of Cyrus Vance, a US Secretary of State under Jimmy Carter, the former litigator was appointed last year as Manhattan's district attorney. He has so far had an unremarkable 17-month run, and all eyes will be on his performance in his highest prosecution yet.

Artie McConnell: McConnell has been named as the lead prosecutor against Strauss-Kahn. He was also involved in the prosecution of "Manhattan Madam" Kristin Davis, who pleaded guilty in 2008 to running a high-end prostitution ring in New York, California and Pennsylvania.

Joan Illuzzi-Orbon: The recently appointed chief of the new Hate Crimes Unit, Illuzzi-Orbon has joined the prosecution team against Strauss-Kahn. One of her most recent high-profile cases was the prosecution of rapper Lil Wayne, who pleaded guilty to a gun charge in 2009.

Ann Prunty: Assistant district attorney Prunty has been involved in the case of Nicholas Brooks, the son of late songwriter Joseph Brooks, who is accused of killing a fashion designer last year in the Soho House club in Manhattan.

Jeffrey Shapiro: Although he won't be part of the prosecution team, personal injury lawyer Shapiro has been representing the alleged victim pro bono, and has spoken on her behalf to the media.

Team DSK

No more maids...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-cleaning-staff-14m-Manhattan-bail-house.html

And in Breaking News, another NYC hotel sex bust. What is it with bankers, and this one, at 74 years of age!? I smell a V-I-A-G-R-A defense.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/nd_banker_in_hotel_sex_bust_5t8SbxVPtY026XJSdsJPJM


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## Ralfy

It's best to focus on such crimes to keep the sheeple occupied. As for, say, Wall Street banksters....


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## Vazgen

Just the title "Caviar Socialist" betrays an urge to see hypocrisy behind Strauss-Kahn's political perspective, as if allegations of arrogant misogyny and sexual violence weren't bad enough.

Are we really supposed to believe that it's _hypocritical _for anyone well-off to support social safety nets and government spending for the less fortunate? It's as if progressive political views are fine if you're living below the poverty level, but as soon as you have a roof over your head, it's every crumb for himself!

-Vaz


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## TxllxT

Vazgen said:


> Just the title "Caviar Socialist" betrays an urge to see hypocrisy behind Strauss-Kahn's political perspective, as if allegations of arrogant misogyny and sexual violence weren't bad enough.
> 
> Are we really supposed to believe that it's _hypocritical _for anyone well-off to support social safety nets and government spending for the less fortunate? It's as if progressive political views are fine if you're living below the poverty level, but as soon as you have a roof over your head, it's every crumb for himself!
> 
> -Vaz


The title "Socialist" (without any caviar) at least ought to imply someone who is in touch with the people, someone who has ears and eyes for those who live below the poverty level. Now look in Spain and look everywhere: tell me, what are socialists doing for those who have no future perspective except staying poor with no job? All of a sudden these incompetent socialists become a-social. DSK's behaviour is a-social.


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## Vazgen

No one likes the "socialist" tag in the USA, and I'm not sure what it means in France. But I wish someone would explain what Strauss-Kahn ever did in his career that was even remotely socialist. He appears to have rubbed elbows with industry bigwigs in his career as a lobbyist, then went on a privatization spree and slashed sales taxes when he became Minister of Economics and Finance.

Not for nothing, but he seems like he'd be on the Republican ticket, or at least a Clinton centrist, in the USA.

-Vaz


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## TxllxT

In Holland we had a prime minister Wim Kok, who belonged to the 'Social Democrats'. When he retired from the job, he bought a castle in France. There are many examples of such bigwig socialists...


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## Vaneyes

Vazgen said:


> No one likes the "socialist" tag in the USA, and I'm not sure what it means in France. But I wish someone would explain what Strauss-Kahn ever did in his career that was even remotely socialist. He appears to have rubbed elbows with industry bigwigs in his career as a lobbyist, then went on a privatization spree and slashed sales taxes when he became Minister of Economics and Finance.
> 
> Not for nothing, but he seems like he'd be on the Republican ticket, or at least a Clinton centrist, in the USA.
> 
> -Vaz


For the unsure, Wikipedia to the rescue...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauche_caviar


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## Vazgen

Vaneyes said:


> For the unsure, Wikipedia to the rescue...


Can you point out where this politico acted like a socialist? Or is your crusade against Strauss-Kahn a fight against relevance as well?

-Vaz


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## Vaneyes

Vazgen said:


> Can you point out where this politico acted like a socialist? Or is your crusade against Strauss-Kahn a fight against relevance as well?
> 
> -Vaz


No crusade, just bringing the news (messenger).


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## Vaneyes

How France and US laws affect DSK news coverage...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/31/us-strausskahn-rapeshield-idUSTRE74U73B20110531

"One DSK is enough. We don't need any more."

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/tygrrrr-express/2011/jun/1/anthony-weiner-ed-schultz-mahmoud-abdel-salam-omar/

France's "Code of Silence" rebuffed...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393078/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-ally-Jack-Lang-accused-orgy-little-boys-Morocco.html


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## Vaneyes

"Shame on you," say maids. "Not guilty," says DSK. Next court date July 18.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/strauss_kahn_expected_to_plead_not_P8HfuFrGdymEOWA9iM4jJN


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## Vaneyes

Discovery Phase...

http://www.english.rfi.fr/americas/20110610-strauss-kahns-lawyers-say-confidential-messages-must-remain-secret-0


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## Vaneyes

"DSK's lawyers *may* do their own DNA testing"

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/123761509.html


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## Vaneyes

"Strauss-Kahn lawyers deny 'smear campaign'."

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/strauss-kahn-lawyers-deny-smear-campaign-_156395.html


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## Vaneyes

Can DSK dodge a criminal trial by claiming immunity? A thorough explanation of immunity for certain positions and titles here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/dsk_b_881313.html


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Can DSK dodge a criminal trial by claiming immunity? A thorough explanation of immunity for certain positions and titles here...
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haggai-carmon/dsk_b_881313.html


This is fairly old news - I think it was already pretty well determined that immunity would not apply here, as he was not in the country on official business, rather he was engaged in personal activities, I believe related to seeing his daughter.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> This is fairly old news - I think it was already pretty well determined that immunity would not apply here, as he was not in the country on official business, rather he was engaged in personal activities, I believe related to seeing his daughter.


I don't see how anyone could construe this reflective piece as late-breaking news, but I guess stranger things have happened.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> I don't see how anyone could construe this reflective piece as late-breaking news, but I guess stranger things have happened.


Has there been new information suggesting he was going to claim immunity? I say it is old news because it seems that all of the relevant individuals have already weighed in on this issue that he can't. Including the IMF. All the piece at HuffPo seems to be is an intellectual exercise after the fact. But I remember this discussion back when he was first being arraigned, and it was determined then by various experts that immunity didn't cover him here. So why this individual has just written this piece, I don't know, but it HAS already been discussed.

Update:
I found, for example, a very similar piece posted May 16 on the Foreign Policy website.

And also a posting at Opinio Juris on May 17th.

And this post on May 18 at the Blog of the European Journal of International Law.

So this HuffPo piece is really old news, as the topic has already been discussed.


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## Vaneyes

Update? You Google-searched for them June 23. That's the old news. LOL


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Update? You Google-searched for them June 23. That's the old news. LOL


It was an edit to my post - I didn't check to see if something else was posted before I edited my post.

But all of those articles are from a month ago, discussing already what your article is now discussing, one month later. So yes, I would say that this is old news. Are you arguing that this is some fresh, new topic? The HuffPo piece doesn't really bring anything new to the table that wasn't already discussed. It seem superfluous. In science, we usually look to see if someone has already published on a subject before we go and try to run a study. No sense in repeating what has already been done. Clearly the HuffPo writer didn't do his homework.


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## Vaneyes

DrMike said:


> It was an edit to my post - I didn't check to see if something else was posted before I edited my post.
> 
> But all of those articles are from a month ago, discussing already what your article is now discussing, one month later. So yes, I would say that this is old news. Are you arguing that this is some fresh, new topic? The HuffPo piece doesn't really bring anything new to the table that wasn't already discussed. It seem superfluous. In science, we usually look to see if someone has already published on a subject before we go and try to run a study. No sense in repeating what has already been done. Clearly the HuffPo writer didn't do his homework.


Firstly, you notify me that no immunity for DSK was fairly old news. I responded that it was a reflective article detailing types of immunity. You then respond to that, after Googling, saying someone else had already done that, and provide links to law and policy journals. I respond to that by saying that's the first you learned of these older reflections. Your response about editing puzzles, in that you still blame the messenger even in knowing you didn't have the in-depth immunity comparisons before you Googled for them, after I posted the Huff Post article. Huh? Who's on first? You not only criticize me for old news, you criticize the writer for not doing his homework.

Pardon, but I think it was the scientist who didn't do his homework. First in misconstruing the type of article it was, then playing catch-up about who published first. I just hope the element of catching up doesn't put an end to another thread, because I think the upcoming trial is important, and some of the material on this thread will be of interest in forthcoming reflections.


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## Almaviva

Tsk, tsk, children, children...
I thought we were among grown men here.
Right, do we need to close another thread? It's becoming tedious.
Can't you guys refrain from personal attacks? Dammit!!!
I'm getting sick and tired of this.
It looks like we should just do away with this whole Community Forum thing and just discuss Classical Music, because you guys can't manage to discuss anything without engaging in personal attacks. Gosh, this is so frustrating!
Here we go, let's close the thread temporarily so that the two of you calm down. I'll reopen it.
But if this happens again, then it will be closed for good.


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## Almaviva

It's been re-opened as promised.
But I'll have a very low threshold to close it for good.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


> Firstly, you notify me that no immunity for DSK was fairly old news. I responded that it was a reflective article detailing types of immunity. You then respond to that, after Googling, saying someone else had already done that, and provide links to law and policy journals. I respond to that by saying that's the first you learned of these older reflections. Your response about editing puzzles, in that you still blame the messenger even in knowing you didn't have the in-depth immunity comparisons before you Googled for them, after I posted the Huff Post article. Huh? Who's on first? You not only criticize me for old news, you criticize the writer for not doing his homework.
> 
> Pardon, but I think it was the scientist who didn't do his homework. First in misconstruing the type of article it was, then playing catch-up about who published first. I just hope the element of catching up doesn't put an end to another thread, because I think the upcoming trial is important, and some of the material on this thread will be of interest in forthcoming reflections.


By way of explanation - yes, I did Google those webpages yesterday. But I remembered reading about the issue last month. I don't follow the case enough to remember exactly where I had read it, so I did have to Google it. I only forgot the website where I read it, not that I had read it.

Regarding the Update in my post - I posted the first part, and then decided I should provide proof of what I was saying. So I went and found the posts, then came back and, rather than make a new post, I edited my existing post. I inserted the phrase "Update" to indicate that I was adding information after I had already posted my comment, in case someone had posted since mine (I hadn't refreshed the page to see if anyone had - otherwise I would have just made a new post).

My intention was to show that this really wasn't an issue anymore, and had been resolved some time ago. My criticism was leveled at the author of the piece at Huffington Post - he appeared to be behind the times, as he was commenting on an issue that was already resolved. None of my criticisms were leveled at Vaneyes, as I believe a re-reading of my posts will bear out.

My childishness will no longer trouble you here.

Adios.


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## Krummhorn

Almaviva said:


> Tsk, tsk, children, children...
> I thought we were among grown men here.
> Right, do we need to close another thread? It's becoming tedious.
> Can't you guys refrain from personal attacks? Dammit!!!
> I'm getting sick and tired of this.
> 
> But if this happens again, then it will be closed for good.


Done ... closed for good ... or bad 

If members want to go head-to-head on an issue like what has been presented here, then please do so using the Private Messaging option as nobody wants to see this kind of ugly bantering going on in a discussion thread.


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