# Deep Tracks - The Kinks - "Face to Face"



## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

View attachment 107818


Please *choose up to nine selections* for this particular poll.

On all polls created if you click on the number of votes following the song title the username of all voters and their chosen selections will appear.

The tunes themselves will be found below the poll itself as links rather than as embedded videos due to bandwidth issues for those who wish to reacquaint themselves with a tune that may have receded a bit too far into the past to be remembered with the clarity that came when they were first released...

Next up is - The Kinks - "Face to Face" 

"Face to Face" is the fourth studio album by the English rock band the Kinks, released in October 1966. The album had marked the band's shift from the hard-driving style of beat music, catapulting them to international acclaim. Being their first album consisting entirely of Ray Davies compositions, it has also been regarded by critics as rock's first concept album.

Ray Davies suffered a nervous breakdown just prior to the major recording sessions for the album.

In contrast to the band's earlier "raunchy" sound, he had started to introduce a new, softer style of writing the previous year with compositions such as "A Well Respected Man" and "Dedicated Follower of Fashion".

In July 1966, the single "Sunny Afternoon", also written in that style, reached #1 in the UK, and the song's great popularity proved to Ray and the Kinks' managers that the group could find success with this style of songwriting. The new album would follow this pattern, as would the group's recorded output for the next five years. The 1966-71 period inaugurated by this album would later be called Ray's and the Kinks' "golden age".

Rock historians have credited the album as arguably one of the first rock/pop concept albums, with the loose common theme of social observation. In the album's original inception, Ray attempted to bridge the songs together with sound effects, but was forced to revert to the more standard album format by Pye Records before the album's release.

Two songs on "Face to Face", although written by Ray, were originally recorded and released by other British bands in the months prior to the release of this album. The Pretty Things had a minor UK hit in July 1966 with "A House in the Country", which peaked at #50; their final entry on the singles charts. *Herman's Hermits*, meanwhile, took their version of "Dandy" top ten in several countries (including #5 in the US and #1 in Canada), beginning in September 1966.

The album was released in a particularly tumultuous year for the band, with personnel problems (Pete Quaife was injured; he resigned and later rejoined the band), legal and contractual battles and an ongoing hectic touring schedule. The album was critically well received, but did not sell particularly well at the time of its release (especially in the United States), and was out of print for many years.

Personnel -

Ray Davies - lead vocals, rhythm guitar, mellotron

Dave Davies - lead guitar, backing vocals, lead vocals on "Party Line", "You're Lookin' Fine"

Pete Quaife - bass guitar, backing vocals (except where noted)

John Dalton - bass guitar on "Little Miss Queen of Darkness"

Mick Avory - drums, percussion

Nicky Hopkins - keyboards, piano, harmonium on "Sunny Afternoon"

Rasa Davies - backing vocals on "Sunny Afternoon", "Session Man" and "Rainy Day in June"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_to_Face_(The_Kinks_album)

Your commentary on any and every aspect of the album and especially any memories reawakened as a result of the poll is welcomed.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

"*Party Line*" -






"*Rosy Won't You Please Come Home*" -






"*Dandy*" -






"*Too Much on My Mind*" -






"*Session Man*" -






"*Rainy Day in June*" -






"*A House in the Country*" -






"*Holiday in Waikiki*" -






"*Most Exclusive Residence for Sale*" -






"*Fancy*" -






"*Little Miss Queen of Darkness*" -






"*You're Lookin' Fine*" -






"*Sunny Afternoon*" -






"*I'll Remember*" -


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Brilliant album - and their first great one. The band were about to hit a real purple patch but sadly _Face to Face_ was the last long player to get into the UK top twenty before Pye shamefully turned their back on them when it came to promoting albums of new material, preferring to rehash the hits with budget compilations on their Marble Arch subsidiary. In fact, _Face to Face_ was the Kinks' last non-compilation album to get into the UK top twenty period - a crazy statistic for a group which went on to produce so much great stuff.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't know much about the Kinks even though I've heard their music on the radio all my life. By coincidence I bought my first CD yesterday. It's a compilation. Sorry, Elgar! I like most of it save the sing a long live version of Lola. I'd have preferred the studio recording. I really wanted the 44 track compilation, but I bought the Essential set that was easily available locally. I'll explore their complete albums on YouTube and get more familiar with their music. Obviously I can't comment on the featured album here.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I don't know much about the Kinks even though I've heard their music on the radio all my life. By coincidence I bought my first CD yesterday. It's a compilation. Sorry, Elgar! I like most of it save the sing a long live version of Lola. I'd have preferred the studio recording. I really wanted the 44 track compilation, but I bought the Essential set that was easily available locally. I'll explore their complete albums on YouTube and get more familiar with their music. Obviously I can't comment on the featured album here.


There are links to each of the tunes listed above... Try or two per day until you finish the album. This '66 to '71 period really was their golden age but there are still half a dozen LPs which followed in the '70s/early '80s that I thought were just great and I still listen to them quite frequently.

The story of what happened to the Kinks and the disastrous effects that an American tour had on their career -

The group opened 1965 with their first tour of Australia and New Zealand, with Manfred Mann and the Honeycombs. An intensive performing schedule saw them headline other package tours throughout the year with acts such as the Yardbirds and Mickey Finn.

Tensions began to emerge within the band, expressed in incidents such as the on-stage fight between Avory and Dave Davies at The Capitol Theatre, Cardiff, Wales, on 19 May. After finishing the first song, "You Really Got Me", Davies insulted Avory and kicked over his drum set. Avory responded by hitting Davies with his hi-hat stand, rendering him unconscious, before fleeing from the scene, fearing that he had killed his bandmate. Davies was taken to Cardiff Royal Infirmary, where he received 16 stitches to his head. To placate the police, Avory later claimed that it was part of a new act in which the band members would hurl their instruments at each other.

Following a mid-year tour of the United States, the American Federation of Musicians refused permits for the group to appear in concerts there for the next four years, effectively cutting off the Kinks from the main market for rock music at the height of the British Invasion.

Although neither the Kinks nor the union gave a specific reason for the ban, at the time it was widely attributed to their rowdy on-stage behaviour. It has been reported that an incident when the band were taping Dick Clark's TV show Where The Action Is in 1965 led to the ban. Ray Davies recalls in his autobiography, "Some guy who said he worked for the TV company walked up and accused us of being late. Then he started making anti-British comments. Things like "Just because the Beatles did it, every mop-topped, spotty-faced limey juvenile thinks he can come over here and make a career for himself." following which a punch was thrown and the AFM banned them.

Lessons to be learned from the above - don't insult Mick Avory… especially when he's anywhere near a hi-hat stand...

Personally I find that phrase "mop-topped spotty-faced limey juvenile" to be somewhat spurious. As anyone who has ever met an American will attest when it comes to hurling epithets they have a talent that is second to none and I do not actually believe that any self-respecting American epithet-hurler would have used a phrase that scans as poorly as "mop-topped spotty-faced limey juvenile" and would have uttered an epithet of any kind without employing a rich diversity of the most colourful obscenities imaginable... Ray Davies just writes that "a punch was thrown" - he doesn't say by whom which makes me suspect that he was on the receiving end of said thrown punch and he may be embellishing the story somewhat... We all make ourselves the heroes of the stories that we tell about our lives.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

My favorite "British Invasion" band, now, not then (that was the DC5). This is the album that launched a legendary streak of great albums and singles, until they finally became "normal" again after Preservation... 

Face to Face
Something Else
Village Green
Arthur
Lola

+ all the singles... they really weren't "like anybody else"...

Got to hear them live twice, touring Schoolboys and Low Budget....


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Sydney Nova Scotia said:


> As anyone who has ever met an American will attest when it comes to hurling epithets they have a talent that is second to none


We have standards to uphold


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If bassist Pete Quaife is to be believed the band were once invited back for post-gig drinks by a certain John Wayne Gacy...


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> If bassist Pete Quaife is to be believed the band were once invited back for post-gig drinks by a certain John Wayne Gacy...


This is literally the only story that I could find on the subject -

https://bestclassicbands.com/kinks-john-wayne-gacy-6-23-15/

This is their tour itinerary for that time period -

June 18th New York opening for the Dave Clark Five.

June 19th w/ DC5 and Supremes in Philadelphia

June 20th w/ Paul Peterson, Bobby and the Argyles, and Rivieras in Peoria, IL

June 21st in Chicago w/ the Thunderbirds, Blue Knights, and the Ventrills

June 23rd Springfield, IL w/ Dick and Dee Dee, P. Peterson, H. Argyles, Rivieras

June 24th Denver w/ The Police (same name, different band)

June 25th Reno, NV w/ Dobie Gray

June 26th Sacramento, CA w/ Sonny and Cher, Dobie Gray, Linda Dawn, and more

John Wayne Gacy's house was located in Chicago, Illinois ( 8213 W. Summerdale Avenue) which is about 325 km (200 miles) from Springfield, Illinois which is where the Kinks concert was held that night.

As far as I can reckon that's about a 4 to 6 hour drive (the speed limit in the US is 88 kph (55 mph)) and from Google maps it appears as if there is a highway named US 55 (kind of odd, eh? - how they named the highway after the speed limit...).

So... how realistic is it to think that after having played a show in southern Illinois which would have ended around 10 or 11 o'clock they then drove for anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to arrive in Chicago on the morning of June 24th when they had a show scheduled in Denver later that evening? Even if there wasn't a flight from Springfield to Denver it would have made more sense to drive to St. Louis to catch a flight there as the distance between the two cities is approximately 160 km (100 miles).

RIP Pete Quaife - it may have been quite an anecdote to relate but it doesn't stand up to even a rudimentary fact check.

Verdict - apocryphal...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Pete Quaife mentioned it in a _MOJO_ magazine article but all my old copies are now hived away in storage boxes otherwise I'd dig it out to hopefully provide more info. I do recall Quaife referring to Gacy as 'a greaseball' - i.e. very polite but in a dubious kind of way.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> Pete Quaife mentioned it in a _MOJO_ magazine article but all my old copies are now hived away in storage boxes otherwise I'd dig it out to hopefully provide more info. I do recall Quaife referring to Gacy as 'a greaseball' - i.e. very polite but in a dubious kind of way.


I'm not disputing the "Gacy as promoter" aspect of the story - he may very well be responsible for the Springfield IL show but it's the rest of the aneccdote that is troublesome and to me of dubious authenticity if for no other reason than that is just doesn't make any sense from a logistical standpoint.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

My GF sez she waited on the Davies in LA once at a Four Seasons hotel, back in her student daze, she recalls a scene of playful bickering, the Sunny Afternoon lifestyle with drinks by the pool... she wasn't sure which was which, but they were the Davies...

Especially silly when you listen to the author of Victoria! mock us about hustling Rodeo Drive on Americana... as if... maybe Ray should go to the Sierras next time he's here, I could show him around...

Americana #2 sucks BTW... Ray's biggest dud ever.. anybody hear the new Kinks yet?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I ordered myself a couple Kinks albums. Arthur, and Something Else.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

starthrower said:


> I ordered myself a couple Kinks albums. Arthur, and Something Else.


Hope you report back with what you think about them, S.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I ordered myself a couple Kinks albums. Arthur, and Something Else.





elgars ghost said:


> Hope you report back with what you think about them, S.


Yes do so... Both titles are in the "Deep Tracks" pipeline along with "The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society" and "Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Part One"... unless I defect to the Steve Hoffman Forums beforehand because they don't require that you actually check your sense of humour (along with your hat, coat, and umbrella) in the cloakroom upon entering... They enjoy "irony" there - they eat it by the bowlful and drink it by the gallon...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

We do irony here, too - occasionally one has to dig deeper to find it, though. I know you weren't intentionally trying to give me these recurring nightmares where I'm chained to a rock Prometheus-style while watching a never-ending concert featuring Herman's Hermits and Freddy and the Dreamers (at least Prometheus only had to endure having his liver pecked daily by an eagle...).


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> We do irony here, too - occasionally one has to dig deeper to find it, though. I know you weren't intentionally trying to give me these recurring nightmares where I'm chained to a rock Prometheus-style while watching a never-ending concert featuring Herman's Hermits and Freddy and the Dreamers (at least Prometheus only had to endure having his liver pecked daily by an eagle...).


I wasn't referencing you although it was kind of a mistake to let me know what gives you nightmares...

https://www.talkclassical.com/47609-what-do-you-think-12.html#post1514202


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Sydney Nova Scotia said:


> Yes do so... Both titles are in the "Deep Tracks" pipeline along with "The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society" and "Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Part One"... unless I defect to the Steve Hoffman Forums beforehand because they don't require that you actually check your sense of humour (along with your hat, coat, and umbrella) in the cloakroom upon entering... They enjoy "irony" there - they eat it by the bowlful and drink it by the gallon...


I peruse the Hoffman forum but there's a huge amount of frivolous and goofy threads to wade through. And very little interest outside pop/rock music.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I peruse the Hoffman forum but there's a huge amount of frivolous and goofy threads to wade through. And very little interest outside pop/rock music.


Note to self... use "irony" judiciously... better yet, give it a rest for a few days... and get to work on "Turn It Up! - Freddie & the Dreamers" for EG who won't stop hounding me about it...


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

starthrower said:


> I ordered myself a couple Kinks albums. Arthur, and Something Else.


Put them on the box, light a Harry Rag, and enjoy your Shangri-la...

Btw, hope you got the deluxe version of Something Else... many good bonus singles were added...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I did. I got both in Deluxe. I was going to order the UK CDs with bonus tracks but read somewhere the mastering wasn't very good. I still may go that way if I pick up the Lola album because the deluxe is a lot more expensive for some reason.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2018)

starthrower said:


> I did. I got both in Deluxe. I was going to order the UK CDs with bonus tracks but read somewhere the mastering wasn't very good. I still may go that way if I pick up the Lola album because the deluxe is a lot more expensive for some reason.


The 2014 Deluxe edition included the Kinks' following album Percy as a second disc, also with bonus tracks. The 2-disc set is titled Lola versus Powerman and The Moneygoround and Percy.

Bonus Tracks on Lola -

14. "Anytime" 3:33
15. "The Contenders" (instrumental demo) 3:01
16. "The Good Life" 3:16
17. "Lola" (alternative version) 5:28
18. "This Time Tomorrow" (instrumental) 3:19
19. "Apeman" (alternative version, stereo) 3:42
20. "Got to Be Free" (alternative version) 2:03

Bonus Tracks on Percy -

14. "Dreams" (remix) 3:24
15. "Lola" (1970 mono single mix) 4:06
16. "Apeman" (1970 mono single mix) 3:53
17. "Rats" (1970 mono single mix) 2:42
18. "Powerman" (mono mix) 4:26
19. "The Moneygoround" (mono alternative version) 1:41
20. "Apeman" (mono alternative version) 3:41
21. "God's Children" (mono film mix) 3:18
22. "The Way Love Used to Be" (mono film mix) 2:07
23. "God's Children - End" (mono film mix)


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Just finished listening Arthur. I love it! The sound is great in the stereo disc. Haven't tried the mono.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Sydney Nova Scotia said:


> The 2014 Deluxe edition included the Kinks' following album Percy as a second disc, also with bonus tracks. The 2-disc set is titled Lola versus Powerman and The Moneygoround and Percy.
> 
> Bonus Tracks on Lola -
> 
> ...


I ordered it! Also ordered Muswell Hillbillies, and Sleepwalker.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

remember this one?


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2018)

Here's a really first-rate video of The Kinks in Concert (Live at the BBC - 1973) -

Set List -

01. Victoria
02. Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues
03. Dedicated Follower Of Fashion
04. Lola
05. Holiday
06. Good Golly Miss Molly
07. You Really Got Me
08. All Day And All Of The Night
09. Waterloo Sunset
10. Village Green Preservation Society


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Finally got around to listening to Face To Face. This one sounds beautiful. Of it's time yet timeless. I'll be ordering the deluxe edition. The consensus seems to be in favor of Village Green as their masterpiece. But I don't really like the sound of the recording. It sounds a bit too muddy and mired in the past as a recorded document. Face To Face has greater resolution and a more impactful immediacy. At least to my ears anyway.


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