# Participants needed for study on appreciation of classical music



## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

Dear all,

my name is Fiona and I am currently working on an MA dissertation about the influence of different learning processes on the appreciation of classical music at City University London.

I have compiled a short questionnaire that is aimed at anyone who enjoys classical music which I would invite you to take. It is entirely anonymous and will take less than five minutes to complete. You can access it here: Music Appreciation Survey

As of now, there is little to no research on my specific area of interest, which is why every response is much needed and greatly appreciated!!

Thank you


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the interesting survey. Just completed it - would be curious to find out about the results.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

I would love to know what a certain member with >9000 of something... has to say about this survey! I think he would be able to provide Fiona here with some helpful advice about... the intent of classical music and art in general, the normative question of how classical music should listened to, and the descriptive question of how various types of people listen to classical music!

And I mean it seriously... the question of how people engage with classical music and how it _should_ be engaged is very important. This is very important research, I think.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> I would love to know what a certain member with >9000 of something... has to say about this survey! I think he would be able to provide Fiona here with some helpful advice about... the intent of classical music and art in general, the normative question of how classical music should listened to, and the descriptive question of how various types of people listen to classical music!
> 
> And I mean it seriously... the question of how people engage with classical music and how it _should_ be engaged is very important. This is very important research, I think.


Leave Peter alone!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I looked at it. I think it was question No. 2, "I have played _*a classical instrument*_ in the past," which turned me off and away (_What, pray tell, is "a classical instrument?"_. It appears that whomever wrote the poll / survey questions are musically, and verbally, illiterate, or I am the dummy, flummoxed by whatever is meant by "a classical instrument." 

On the other hand :devil: I might complete it, skewing all sorts of stats by not answering honestly, just to mess with the results :tiphat:

But, naw, there are better sorts of fun to make and find.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Done. Entirely painless. When will the results be available?


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

PetrB said:


> I think it was question No. 2, "I have played _*a classical instrument*_ in the past," which turned me off and away (_What, pray tell, is "a classical instrument?"_


Dear PetrB,
at the top of the page you mentioned, I have given a short description of how the term "classical music" is employed within the study (although admittedly a brief one for survey purposes). Consequently, any instrument used in any of the musical pieces covered by this definition should therefore be considered as "classical" for the purposes of my research. I apologise for not having made this any clearer and I appreciate you alerting me to the fact that the terminology strikes you as problematic.



SimonNZ said:


> When will the results be available?


Thank you for your interest. The results will be available in September.

Many thanks to everyone for their rapid input!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Leave Peter alone!


Well, if you meant Petr, then, my sincere thanks, Bro -- but I'm a big boy, and can take it


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

Done. Not too difficult. What caused me to pause was how to answer the question about an "undergraduate degree"? I'f you've got a degree, you're not an undergraduate - it's a contradiction in terms!

It also - perhaps deliberately, of course - narrows the idea of childhood influences to what your parents do. As I reported in my responses, my older brother was much more important to me.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yep. Did my bit, answered honestly, no attempt to skew the data.

I've PM'd the OP re: some confusion of how the questions are written, though I think about all can deduce what is meant. One, at least, of the questions literally makes no sense as it is written, but most native English speakers will get through with the slightest of hiccups.

I also think 'immediate family' would count, even though it says 'parents.' So, yeah, several of the questions /statements could be far better written


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Interesting survey, good possibilities for cross-tabbed results. Yes, I figured "undergrad degree'"meant "4-year degree." Otherwise, no major issues.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Interesting survey, good possibilities for cross-tabbed results. Yes, I figured "undergrad degree'"meant "4-year degree." Otherwise, no major issues.


Why "4-year"? What's a 3-year degree then? (And no quips about it being 25% less valuable!)


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

I honestly appreciate the criticism and have since changed the parts that might have been too unclear. Thanks again for helping!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

MusicAppreciation said:


> I honestly appreciate the criticism and have since changed the parts that might have been too unclear. Thanks again for helping!


I think we are all curious and interested to see what, if any, conclusions can be reached from tallying the responses.

Do drop in when it is done, and you've had time to catch your breath, and tell us what you've found.

Best regards.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

MusicAppreciation said:


> I honestly appreciate the criticism and have since changed the parts that might have been too unclear. Thanks again for helping!


Thanks Fiona.

(That's the main reason I did the survey: one of my sisters is called Fiona )


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Interesting survey, good possibilities for cross-tabbed results. Yes, I figured "undergrad degree'"meant "4-year degree." Otherwise, no major issues.





MacLeod said:


> Why "4-year"? What's a 3-year degree then? (And no quips about it being 25% less valuable!)


Some weird cultural differences will crop up here. In England the standard length of an undergrad degree is 3 years because the English stay longer at school. In Scotland, the standard length of an undergrad degree varies between 3 and 4 years - 3 for an "ordinary degree" reaching a level in most subjects about equivalent to the level of first year in an English university but covering about six different subjects; and 4 for an honours degree similar to an English degree. The Scots system differs because they stay at school for a shorter time and go up to university earlier. They also have a much longer tradition of widespread university education having had 4 universities by 1600 to the English 2 for a much larger population.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

MacLeod said:


> Why "4-year"? What's a 3-year degree then? (And no quips about it being 25% less valuable!)


We deliver both 4-year and 3-year degrees in the UK, albeit the norm is for a 3-year degree. 4-year degrees tend to be associated with teaching degrees for primary schools (where the students undertake a lot of time in school as well as 'academic' study), degrees with work-placements or foreign experiences (eg management degrees, language degrees) or those which lead straight to Masters level (such as my daughter's degree in physics).


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Done, though if I were supervising this research, I would push you heavily to consider using qualitative rather than quantitative methodologies - don't you want to gain insight into the *detail* of the topic and uncover the nuances of experiences, rather than just have a large number of responses?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Dear PetrB,
> at the top of the page you mentioned, I have given a short description of how the term "classical music" is employed within the study (although admittedly a brief one for survey purposes). Consequently, any instrument used in any of the musical pieces covered by this definition should therefore be considered as "classical" for the purposes of my research. I apologise for not having made this any clearer and I appreciate you alerting me to the fact that the terminology strikes you as problematic.
> 
> Thank you for your interest. The results will be available in September.
> ...


I sincerely hope my MD can keep me alive through September. :lol::lol:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

Ok. My question was directed at Ken, because as a possessor of a 3 yr Hons with a PGCE, I wanted to know what he meant by a 4 yr. Ken is in the US, yes? Are all their degrees 4 year ones?


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

Much easier to answer than Taggart's surveys & quizzes.








Hope you'll have some interesting results! :tiphat:


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Done, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure what can come out of it that will at all useful -- except a Master's Thesis.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Done.

All of those "Do you remember" questions could annoy some of us geezers...


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## satoru (May 29, 2014)

Just finished the survey! Love to see the overall result.

Yes, I had to pose and bring back some memories on some questions... I guess now I'm a geezer, too.

Good luck with your research, Fiona!


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Done, though if I were supervising this research, I would push you heavily to consider using qualitative rather than quantitative methodologies - don't you want to gain insight into the *detail* of the topic and uncover the nuances of experiences, rather than just have a large number of responses?


I'd be very interested in that but because the specific things I am looking for have not been well-researched in this context yet, I have to work towards a conceptualisation of the field first. That is why looking at a larger number of people was the first logical step.

That's why I snuck in a qualitative question at the end, to give you a chance to provide more detail


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

GGluek said:


> Done, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure what can come out of it that will at all useful -- except a Master's Thesis.


I will work with whatever information you give me  Evaluating learning processes can be difficult for many reasons. One of them is that often the learner himself is not actually aware of the learning process taking place. In hindsight he might realise that he has learnt something, or he might not. This applies especially when we don't think of learning as acquiring or improving certain, measureable skills, but include more abstract concepts like the acquaintance with and appreciation for music and what sparks or encourages it.

Thanks for helping out!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

MusicAppreciation said:


> I'd be very interested in that but *because the specific things I am looking for have not been well-researched in this context yet*, I have to work towards a conceptualisation of the field first. That is why looking at a larger number of people was the first logical step.
> 
> That's why I snuck in a qualitative question at the end, to give you a chance to provide more detail


Classic reason for using a Grounded Theory approach! It is a good way of letting the theory be derived from the data and emerge from that data rather than from your preconceptions

and the 'qualitative question at the end' is hardly what I would count as a research methodology


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Done. That was fun. I'm in a profession which requires me to listen to people all day, so anytime I finally get to talk about myself is fun.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Fiona, is your department psychology, sociology, education, or something similar? If those are your fields (which is fine) then I highly recommend talking to a prof. in music, or even two. Explain to them what your research is and what you're trying to figure out.

The way the questions were presented and what you have been saying in this thread is to me... unsettling. Classical music can be enjoyed 100% without needing to learn how to _appreciate_ it. All that's necessary is to be an attentive listener. Indeed, I do know some basics about harmony, counterpoint, and form because I'm a hobbyist beginner composer, but that wasn't necessary to enjoy classical music. And yes, I have played violin since age 6, but that also wasn't necessary to enjoy classical music (and I know plenty of people in my college-kid age range who play but don't really enjoy classical that much).

For a lot of the post-1950 music I listen to (and enjoy a whole lot!) the serialist procedures of some composers (Milton Babbitt, Charles Wuorinen, Per Norgard...) are so advanced that one would need a serious music degree to even scratch the surface! Actually... I bet that even Scriabin (a cult classic composer around the turn of the 20th century) is already quite out there. And so I know nothing, yet I can fully appreciate it because I have, per encouragement of the people on this forum, learned to just be attentive and engaged!

The fact that you relate music education, learning to play an instrument to _appreciation_ of music is already a huge problem. I know people who have the education (beginner education like in your survey, not serious university degrees), but no spirit and excitement for the music, and vice versa!

There is a similar problem with mathematics education... okay that's a different story. But "muscle-building" and "appreciation" are not always combined, and they are not always separate.

Please please please talk to some music professors, make sure you have no misconceptions of the point of classical music and what it means to appreciate it (I even hate the word appreciation because it conjures up the view that classical music is elitist), and make sure the the music professors agree that whatever study you're trying to do, that it's based on correct premises.

Sincerely,
-SeptimalTritone.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> The way the questions were presented and what you have been saying in this thread is to me... unsettling.
> 
> Please please please talk to some music professors, make sure you have no misconceptions of the point of classical music and what it means to appreciate it (I even hate the word appreciation because it conjures up the view that classical music is elitist), and make sure the the music professors agree that whatever study you're trying to do, that it's based on correct premises.


What concerned you? What makes you think that the author of the survey hasn't been referring her work to her tutors? What, specifically do you think 'music professors' will bring to the survey that it currently misses?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Part of the problem for me is the emphasis on common practice and beyond rather than early, medieval and renaissance music. I came in through folk and then into early music and on into Baroque - preferably HIP. You seem to have missed out on the dance element of music - again another way in to Baroque is through Playford and other seventeenth and eighteenth century dance music. We have friends who go earlier - branles and so forth - and later, like us, Scottish and English country dance. This gives you access to a wide range of music and a different "appreciation" of it - because you're looking at how it fits for dancing rather than just for listening.


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Fiona, is your department psychology, sociology, education, or something similar? If those are your fields (which is fine) then I highly recommend talking to a prof. in music, or even two. Explain to them what your research is and what you're trying to figure out.
> 
> The way the questions were presented and what you have been saying in this thread is to me... unsettling. Classical music can be enjoyed 100% without needing to learn how to _appreciate_ it. All that's necessary is to be an attentive listener. Indeed, I do know some basics about harmony, counterpoint, and form because I'm a hobbyist beginner composer, but that wasn't necessary to enjoy classical music. And yes, I have played violin since age 6, but that also wasn't necessary to enjoy classical music (and I know plenty of people in my college-kid age range who play but don't really enjoy classical that much).
> 
> ...


SeptimalTritone,
Thank you for your thoughts.
I just wanted to clarify that I am not at all presupposing that the enjoyment of music stems from any kind of learning process and has to be taught or studied; or that any of the different learning experiences mentioned in the questionnaire are necessary or can even relate directly to someone's enjoyment or appreciation of music (or the degree thereof - how would you measure that?) In fact, this is exactly what I am questioning.

Let me explain, hopefully without going too far. You have touched upon a very important topic here which is the idea of musical apprecation having to be "facilitated" in some way. I am very aware that there are stong opinions in regards to this and you are certainly not the only one to disagree with this concept. However, it remains highly popular in the industry. I would even go so far as to say that is becoming increasingly popular with cultural organisations everywhere spending increasingly huge amounts on facilitation programmes and material. (an example: The Royal Opera House in London stated in its 2012 annual reports that their Education Programme is now considered a "third pillar" of their institution, equivalent to the Opera and Ballet departments themselves) Many of these organisations are championing the idea of having a responsibility to pass on cultural heritage but obviously also have future audience development in mind.
However, there is little research actually providing insight on wether this is a good or even remotely appropriate method to further musical enjoyment, which I found very surprising indeed, considering how established and costly many of these programmes/measures are. In short, evidence that teaching enjoyment in such a way can actually be fruitful is scarce. I am therefore trying to create a map of the personal experiences _you _as participants have had. I would like to refrain from stating my personal opinion here for reasons of objectivity but I hope it has become obvious that it is not actually me that is presupposing a relation between "muscle-building" and "appreciation" (as you stated), but rather that this is a popular industry concept that I am trying to investigate. I apologise if I might have given a different impression.

What I do presuppose is that all of you enjoy music because you are active users on this board. The fact that you regularly spend your leisure time sharing music and discussing it is to me a solid indicator of your enthusiasm. Even if you answered each and every one of the survey questions negatively, your love for classical music is still a given here. All the rest is a variable. That makes you an especially interesting study population for me (as opposed to the music students you mentioned above, who are a „textbook case" as in having enjoyed years of classical training but are still lacking true interest in the subject).

Thanks a lot for your participation and feedback, again. It is really much appreciated.


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

Taggart said:


> Part of the problem for me is the emphasis on common practice and beyond rather than early, medieval and renaissance music. I came in through folk and then into early music and on into Baroque - preferably HIP. You seem to have missed out on the dance element of music - again another way in to Baroque is through Playford and other seventeenth and eighteenth century dance music. We have friends who go earlier - branles and so forth - and later, like us, Scottish and English country dance. This gives you access to a wide range of music and a different "appreciation" of it - because you're looking at how it fits for dancing rather than just for listening.


Thank you Taggart. That is an excellent point (that I did miss!) and I have to agree that the idea of appreciating the music through dance rather than pure listening is indeed important, and not accounted for in my survey. Would you mind if I saved this as a comment to refer to when analysing the results? It strikes me as important.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Thank you Taggart. That is an excellent point (that I did miss!) and I have to agree that the idea of appreciating the music through dance rather than pure listening is indeed important, and *not accounted for in my survey*. Would you mind if I saved this as a comment to refer to when analysing the results? It strikes me as important.


Aha! A grounded theory approach could have helped you to avoid the pitfall of incomplete anticipation of possibilities like this. Eh well ... good at least that you are aware that there are subleties to be uncovered (Eg ... I had music lessons whilst at school and played in the school orchestra yet ..... I really think my enjoyment of classical music grew independently of that 'training' but I am unsure how your questionnaire will uncover that level of detail)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Thank you Taggart. That is an excellent point (that I did miss!) and I have to agree that the idea of appreciating the music through dance rather than pure listening is indeed important, and not accounted for in my survey. Would you mind if I saved this as a comment to refer to when analysing the results? It strikes me as important.


There may be some controversy regarding the importance of Scottische dancing; I have so far avoided investigating the issue - if there is one.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> The way the questions were presented and what you have been saying in this thread is to me... unsettling. Classical music can be enjoyed 100% without needing to learn how to _appreciate_ it. All that's necessary is to be an attentive listener.


I don't think you understand how perception works. Focusing on complex classical music without the necessary mental framework that advanced listeners have (whether they're children or not) is like trying to focus on a movie whose dialogue is in a foreign language and the symbology foreign to you - it's hard, and it may not help.

Indeed, if only attentive listening was required for appreciation, almost everyone would be a classical music buff. I personally developed my musical perception for years by trying to listen to classical music attentively so I know what I'm talking about. Perception develops slowly for adults, and not only "attention" is required for appreciation. I've come such a long way in classical music appreciation you wouldn't believe, and you certainly wouldn't be able to explain it from your perspective, which is ignorance and guesswork presented as everyone-knows-this.


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Aha! A grounded theory approach could have helped you to avoid the pitfall of incomplete anticipation of possibilities like this. Eh well ... good at least that you are aware that there are subleties to be uncovered (Eg ... I had music lessons whilst at school and played in the school orchestra yet ..... I really think my enjoyment of classical music grew independently of that 'training' but I am unsure how your questionnaire will uncover that level of detail)


I would be delighted to hear from you should you be willing to go into more detail about your own experience, especially if you feel that my survey does not represent your experience appropriately!

You already stated that you didn't particularly care for my last question (the open-ended one), but that was actually the way I intended it: I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain what you yourself believe has had the greatest influence on you.

I do realise this is not a simple topic. As stated before learning in itself is a hugely complex concept that is extremely hard to tie to any concrete outcome. It is also doubtful if musical affinity can actually be linked to any one certain experience or activity, or if a participant can even provide relevant information about themselves in regards to what has been their greatest influence, as a person is so often unaware of the processes of familiarisation that are taking place in the brain and might not even become aware in hindsight.

I feel like I am talking too much background here - I don't want to influence any responses! But please rest assured that I am interested in collecting numeric data to create a descriptive map of you as participants and what your personal experience has been rather than jumping to conclusions as to which means what.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2014)

MusicAppreciation said:


> You already stated that you didn't particularly care for my last question (the open-ended one), but that was actually the way I intended it: I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain what you yourself believe has had the greatest influence on you.


By the time I got to the last question, I had fully realized that I needed to go to the bathroom. I hastily typed "talkclassical.com" and bolted


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## MusicAppreciation (Aug 1, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> By the time I got to the last question, I had fully realized that I needed to go to the bathroom. I hastily typed "talkclassical.com" and bolted


Just as useful to me nonetheless! Thanks for helping.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Aha! A grounded theory approach could have helped you to avoid the pitfall of incomplete anticipation of possibilities like this.
> 
> ..... I really think my enjoyment of classical music grew independently of that 'training' but I am unsure how your questionnaire will uncover that level of detail)


The text box at the end asking about influences does at least allow a story to be told. I'm with you about grounded theory though.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Dear all,
> 
> my name is Fiona and I am currently working on an MA dissertation about the influence of different learning processes on the appreciation of classical music at City University London.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I shall take a look. I hve strong views on what is and what is not classical music. (I scored a good mark at school for expressing my thoughts.) Interesting survey.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Thank you Taggart. That is an excellent point (that I did miss!) and I have to agree that the idea of appreciating the music through dance rather than pure listening is indeed important, and not accounted for in my survey. Would you mind if I saved this as a comment to refer to when analysing the results? It strikes me as important.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalcroze_Eurhythmics

In early childhood, I did something like this program / approach to music. Being so young I could not account for its actual effect upon me -- I'm certain it was noticed at home that I strongly responded to music; with parents who were very canny about noticing their children's interests and a care to help their child develop, perhaps in directions not at all of their inclinations or 'future plans for', I was entered in those classes.

Jacqueline Du Pre's mother taught a similar study, and she brought her children through it, too.

These movement to music classes, in a number of formats, are what Isadora Duncan was teaching and promoting. I'm certain there are multiple known benefits for any developing young child who goes through any such class, whether they later become fans of music, play an instrument, or not.

IMO, an area more than well worth looking into.


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

> I have bought at least 5 recordings of classical music in the past twelve months.


Past two weeks. Felt the same way I did when I encountered "I have had more than 3 drinks in past week" question on health survey.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

MusicAppreciation said:


> Thank you Taggart. That is an excellent point (that I did miss!) and I have to agree that the idea of appreciating the music through dance rather than pure listening is indeed important, and not accounted for in my survey. Would you mind if I saved this as a comment to refer to when analysing the results? It strikes me as important.


No problem.



PetrB said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalcroze_Eurhythmics
> 
> In early childhood, I did something like this program / approach to music. Being so young I could not account for its actual effect upon me -- I'm certain it was noticed at home that I strongly responded to music; with parents who were very canny about noticing their children's interests and a care to help their child develop, perhaps in directions not at all of their inclinations or 'future plans for', I was entered in those classes.
> 
> ...


There's been quite a bit of work on this. When you said music and movement it brought back a load of memories of the 1950's BBC series of that name. Interestingly, a lot of this is going back into rhythm awareness again.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

The only real conclusion to be gained from this, I think, is that _everyone is different._


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2014)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The only real conclusion to be gained from this, I think, is that _everyone is different._


Shouldn't we leave the conclusions to the person conducting the study who will have all the responses and has framed the hypothesis and the questions?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

ArtMusic said:


> Thank you. I shall take a look. I hve strong views on what is and what is not classical music. (I scored a good mark at school for expressing my thoughts.) Interesting survey.


I earned perfect marks in Regression Analysis, in college, for disclaiming my carefully qualified opinion and dispassionately contending with population sample results that supported correlations that I found personally distasteful. :tiphat:


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