# How many young people listen to classical music



## glennbuck

I got interested in classical music about 18 months ago.Im 34 i think it takes people maybe,later in life to appreciate what classical music has to offer.If pubs and clubs had small groups of classical music performers playing around the world,it would become available to the masses again and introduce a younger audience.I have a classical violin, piano and cello video website for members to watch performers from the past 50 years if you like.http://www.classicalviolinvideos.com/


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## trazom

Well, I'm 19 and have been listening to it for about 6 years now. It started with me taking flute lessons and then switching over to piano, which I'm better at, even though it's easier to sight-read with the flute.


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## JSK

I'm 19 and have been playing music since I was 8, but I didn't start actually listening to it seriously until I discovered Beethoven at around 15.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

I've been into classical music since early age, I'm 21 now. But if it wasn't for Batman I wouldn't do many things I do today.


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## Guest

Music appreciation used to be taught at School, I remember starting with the Triangle and Tambourine at the age of about 7 or 8 and of course the School Choir but I suspect that is obsolete now, you need to hear quality music to realise how bad some of the other stuff is,


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## World Violist

Andante said:


> Music appreciation used to be taught at School, I remember starting with the Triangle and Tambourine at the age of about 7 or 8 and of course the School Choir but I suspect that is obsolete now, you need to hear quality music to realise how bad some of the other stuff is,


Yeah... they forced us to play recorder (about 5-6 years ago) at my elementary school. Those sounded pretty terrible, and we didn't know how to tune them or anything... a performance of a given piece (monophonic) sounded more akin to a howling quarter-tone cluster spanning about a minor third than whatever we were supposed to give the impression of playing.

After I recovered from that trauma, by about a year, I got into classical music (at about 13 or so years old). I started viola shortly before. So yeah... here I am at 17.


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## xJuanx

I'm 18 years old, and i've been listening to classical music since I was 9 years old.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

I am about 18 years old right now, and I have been listening to classical music since I was 5. My father would have me listen to it all the time, and I eventually started to really enjoy it. Young people most of the time don't understand classical music and cannot comprehend it, which is why young people primarily listen to music like pop and rap, because it's easy to comprehend.


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## JustAFan

Interesting question - I've always had the general impression people either "get it" and pick up an interest in classical fairly early in life or they never do - I suspect with every passing year the chances of any given person suddenly catching the wave become smaller.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Young people tend not to understand anything complex such as Classical Music or Technical Progressive Extreme Death Metal.


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## PartisanRanger

I'm 21 and I started getting into classical music about a year ago. I don't know that it's an age thing so much as a musical passion and curiosity thing. Some have been fortunate to have been brought up on classical music, but for most of us I'd guess it took some exploration and patience to get into classical music.

I don't think there's any credence to the argument that younger listeners can't grasp "complex" music because of intellectual immaturity or what have you. I've always been of the opinion that the value of music is in the sensual and emotional sensation of listening to it, not in some inane academic evaluation of its worth based on perceived complexity or whatever other metrics one might have.


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## Guest

JustAFan said:


> Interesting question - I've always had the general impression people either "get it" and pick up an interest in classical fairly early in life or they never do - I suspect with every passing year the chances of any given person suddenly catching the wave become smaller.


I like your user name and Avatar,  I know several people that came to Classical at a later stage in their evolution in their late 50s and one case the man was 60, I don't know what that proves but life is full of surprises


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## JustAFan

Andante said:


> I like your user name and Avatar,  I know several people that came to Classical at a later stage in their evolution in their late 50s and one case the man was 60, I don't know what that proves but life is full of surprises


Ah, so there's hope for my friends yet!


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

PartisanRanger said:


> . I've always been of the opinion that the value of music is in the sensual and emotional sensation of listening to it, not in some inane academic evaluation of its worth based on perceived complexity or whatever other metrics one might have.


Nothing of the sort. Young people of course can not decipher complex music, unless they are taught so or start mastering their ears by themselves at early age. Anyone can enjoy a simple symphony but not everyone can follow rapidly one instrument at a time, especially when every single instrument plays at a fast and complicated speed, not to mention that sometimes every instrument might play different melodies, tempos, and techniques from each other. Now , with that in mind, think about trying to enjoy a 10 instrument song as a kid. Nothing to do with academics, its just getting the time to exercise your ear starting with something simple to something complex, that's all.


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## PartisanRanger

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Nothing of the sort. Young people of course can not decipher complex music, unless they are taught so or start mastering their ears by themselves at early age. Anyone can enjoy a simple symphony but not everyone can follow rapidly one instrument at a time, especially when every single instrument plays at a fast and complicated speed, not to mention that sometimes every instrument might play different melodies, tempos, and techniques from each other. Now , with that in mind, think about trying to enjoy a 10 instrument song as a kid. Nothing to do with academics, its just getting the time to exercise your ear starting with something simple to something complex, that's all.


No one follows one instrument at a time when listening to a symphony. Indeed, it would be missing the whole point. The great part about symphonies is listening to the glorious interplay between instruments. I don't see any reason why older people would be any more able to enjoy a 10-instrument song than younger people.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

1) Simple symphonies are not complex. No matter how many instruments a song has, they tend to follow the same tempo, same melody, same technique, etc.. with the exception of the one or two lead instruments.

2) That's easy for people of any age to understand, NOW, I'm not saying enjoy, since one can understand rap music, decipher it, follow it never getting lost, etc.. but not enjoy it. Do you see where I'm standing now?

3) People who have been training their ears to complicated music tend to enjoy it more than any person who has never trained their ears. You can pick that up at any age whatsoever, but if early the better.

4) The reason why many kids don't follow classical might be because they are not willing to master their ear or are just don't know that you have to do that in order to at least enjoy it. Other reason is because kids want something more exciting that makes them jump or talks to them (The power Rangers songs, Barney, Pokemon with its "You gotta catch them all", etc..). Remember that kids are mostly hyper, with the exception of some kids who prefer something calm. It is not till later where they outgrow simplicity and look for something a lil bit more complex.

But hey nothing in here is written on stone.


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## Tapkaara

Young people do not listen to classical.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Some do, but tend to enjoy more the easy stuff.


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## Guest

JustAFan said:


> Ah, so there's hope for my friends yet!


There is always hope,I hope, I should have added that they were music lovers all of their life but not Classical, and when it happens latter in life I think it hits them harder they become obsessed, born again.


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## Herzeleide

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> Young people most of the time don't understand classical music and cannot comprehend it, which is why young people primarily listen to music like pop and rap, because it's easy to comprehend.


It's also why lots of young people listen to metal.


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## Aramis

It's sad how much depends on parents. Some of you say "I listened classical since I was 5" etc. I guess you had wonderful parents that send you to musical school or gave you some kind of lessons themselves when you were little child.


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## danae

I don't have time to write all the things I'd like to so, that's why I'm posting just one thought, because a lot of stuff was said about complexity in classical music: classical doesn't hold the monopoly in compexity. Try listening to a 3 hour gamelan piece or an equally lengthy raga improvisation. There is also a lot of jazz, electro etc music that is extremely complex.


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## Herzeleide

Aramis said:


> It's sad how much depends on parents. Some of you say "I listened classical since I was 5" etc. I guess you had wonderful parents that send you to musical school or gave you some kind of lessons themselves when you were little child.


I completely agree with this. I strongly resent people I know who were provided with a world of opportunities with music from a very young age, but who now couldn't care less about it.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Herzeleide said:


> It's also why lots of young people listen to metal.


Still, it all depends on the genre. Young kinds tend to listen to easy metal such as Black Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Traditional Heavy Metal, and others.

Not many tend to listen to Progressive Metal, Extreme Technical Progressive Death Metal, or Avant Garde Metal.


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## PartisanRanger

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> 1) Simple symphonies are not complex. No matter how many instruments a song has, they tend to follow the same tempo, same melody, same technique, etc.. with the exception of the one or two lead instruments.


I was talking about any symphony, not just "simple" ones. No one tries to parse out each individual instrument from the others for basic listening purposes. You're trying to get the full effect of the instruments playing in conjunction.



> 2) That's easy for people of any age to understand, NOW, I'm not saying enjoy, since one can understand rap music, decipher it, follow it never getting lost, etc.. but not enjoy it. Do you see where I'm standing now?


No. I don't see why anyone should get "lost" listening to any sort of music. This isn't rocket science here. You either enjoy a piece of music or you don't. I don't think there's anything innately complicated about classical music that warrants a higher level of intellect to comprehend.



> 4) The reason why many kids don't follow classical might be because they are not willing to master their ear or are just don't know that you have to do that in order to at least enjoy it. Other reason is because kids want something more exciting that makes them jump or talks to them (The power Rangers songs, Barney, Pokemon with its "You gotta catch them all", etc..). Remember that kids are mostly hyper, with the exception of some kids who prefer something calm. It is not till later where they outgrow simplicity and look for something a lil bit more complex.


You're just speculating now. Most kids don't follow classical for the same reasons most adults don't follow classical.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

PartisanRanger said:


> No. I don't see why anyone should get "lost" listening to any sort of music. This isn't rocket science here. You either enjoy a piece of music or you don't. I don't think there's anything innately complicated about classical music that warrants a higher level of intellect to comprehend..


It has nothing to do with science or intellectual level, it seems that you just want to read what you want to read and not what has been written.

Quote me once again and bold any sentence that states intellectuality or science.


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## Mirror Image

Coming from a jazz background, I came to classical on my own without the help of anybody. I researched and read a lot about it and started figuring out the composers I enjoy through various Internet sound samples, then I just jumped in and started buying CDs.


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## PartisanRanger

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> It has nothing to do with science or intellectual level, it seems that you just want to read what you want to read and not what has been written.
> 
> Quote me once again and bold any sentence that states intellectuality or science.


What is it then that prevents kids from enjoying classical music? I don't understand your argument.


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## Bach

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Still, it all depends on the genre. Young kinds tend to listen to easy metal such as Black Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Traditional Heavy Metal, and others.
> 
> Not many tend to listen to Progressive Metal, Extreme Technical Progressive Death Metal, or Avant Garde Metal.


Probably because they sound bad.


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## Edward Elgar

Define young! Classical music for a young person takes too much effort to like. Classical musicians don't have the money and the women that hip-hoppers are seen to have so why try and aspire to be like them or pay the slightest bit of interest towards them? Poor guys!


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Bach said:


> Probably because they sound bad.


Many of the bands I know have released good HI-FI/ HD quality cd's.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

PartisanRanger said:


> What is it then that prevents kids from enjoying classical music? I don't understand your argument.


I'm going to give you an example.

People like Calculus, not everyone does, but for those who love it, they first have to understand it. But how do they understand Calculus?

Well, they began learning at some age how to add, subtract, divide, multiple. Then as the times passed they knew how to handle efficiently more arithmetic problems, algebraic problems of all levels, etc.. until they got to trigonometry. Know they know the roots of everything they are doing. They understand calculus more efficiently and it comes more naturally from them to learn more.

Now, many people might have the ability to know all of this, but hate anything related to math and still prefer to do other things such as Literature, Geography, history, etc.... 
Following this criteria, you now can see how many of us find Hip Hop, Pop, etc.. to be easy and understandable, yet we (I assume you too) don't like such styles of music.

Hope that helped.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Edward Elgar said:


> Define young! Classical music for a young person takes too much effort to like. Classical musicians don't have the money and the women that hip-hoppers are seen to have so why try and aspire to be like them or pay the slightest bit of interest towards them? Poor guys!


Isn't young 4 - 8?


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## PartisanRanger

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> I'm going to give you an example.
> 
> People like Calculus, not everyone does, but for those who love it, they first have to understand it. But how do they understand Calculus?
> 
> Well, they began learning at some age how to add, subtract, divide, multiple. Then as the times passed they knew how to handle efficiently more arithmetic problems, algebraic problems of all levels, etc.. until they got to trigonometry. Know they know the roots of everything they are doing. They understand calculus more efficiently and it comes more naturally from them to learn more.
> 
> Now, many people might have the ability to know all of this, but hate anything related to math and still prefer to do other things such as Literature, Geography, history, etc....
> Following this criteria, you now can see how many of us find Hip Hop, Pop, etc.. to be easy and understandable, yet we (I assume you too) don't like such styles of music.
> 
> Hope that helped.


Your analogy still includes an element of intellectual maturity since children are unable to comprehend advanced mathematics until a certain stage of mental development. If this implication was unintended, I'd say that you seem to be arguing that appreciation of classical music is tied more to exposure to it than to age. Let me ask this: do you think a 12 year old with 5 years of classical music experience has less potential for enjoying such music than a 30 year old with the same experience?


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## Margaret

I'm wondering what some people's definition of "young" is. At my age "teenage" is young. But a number of people have posted they started listening in their teens only for someone to come along and say that "Young people do not listen to classical." If you don't think that teenage is young, _*you're still young yourself*_.

I started listening to classical music in my teens. I was in love -- not with the music, with a guy, albeit a fictional one. The things you'll do when you're a teenager with a crush. But it got me into classical music and the cello. Both of which I still love.


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## Guest

Margaret said:


> I'm wondering what some people's definition of "young" is. At my age "teenage" is young. But a number of people have posted they started listening in their teens only for someone to come along and say that "Young people do not listen to classical."


For me any age below mine is young


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

PartisanRanger said:


> I'd say that you seem to be arguing that appreciation of classical music is tied more to exposure to it than to age.


Exactly my thoughts; but as I myself mentioned before, many young kids (not all of them) do not get exposed to classical music by themselves.


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## PartisanRanger

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Exactly my thoughts; but as I myself mentioned before, many young kids (not all of them) do not get exposed to classical music by themselves.


Indeed, but I'd say this is true for people generally. I'd guess that most people don't have exposure to classical music beyond movie scores.


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## Margaret

PartisanRanger said:


> Indeed, but I'd say this is true for people generally. I'd guess that most people don't have exposure to classical music beyond movie scores.


Really? What about........
TV shows
Commercials
Cartoons
School 
Being put on hold
Possibly restaurants and other shopping experiences
Websites you go to that play classical music
For all I know there are probably some games that use classical music

Even if I don't put in a CD I probably hear classical music every day.

Just today I was watching TV and wondering what that famous piece is being played on this commercial for some fast food place that's added lobster nuggets to its menu. I know I know the piece, but can't recall the title.

There was a thread a couple of months back where I pointed out that we're constantly exposed to classical music (in the "western" world). Which does not mean that people are going to choose to seek it out to listen to it. That's a whole next step most people don't make.


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## Marco01

I bought my first classical CD when I was 14. 

It was Stravinsky's Rite of Spring (along with Jeu de Cartes and Concerto in D for String).

Fortunately I went to a very good school where the arts were quite a strong focus. Although initially I had no particular interest in classical music, being exposed to it on a regular basis did help.

Saying that, my main motivation for buying Rite of Spring was reading Zappa going on about how it was the most important piece of music ever written, and being a fan of his music I felt obliged to give it a go. It took me 3 listens before I started to really 'get it' but then after the doors to classical music were wide open. 

The likes of Bartok, Ives and Prokofiev followed shortly. In fact, the next cd I bought was Bartok's Piano Concertos (I, II & III) ... and I loved it!


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## PartisanRanger

Margaret said:


> Really? What about........
> TV shows
> Commercials
> Cartoons
> School
> Being put on hold
> Possibly restaurants and other shopping experiences
> Websites you go to that play classical music
> For all I know there are probably some games that use classical music
> 
> Even if I don't put in a CD I probably hear classical music every day.
> 
> Just today I was watching TV and wondering what that famous piece is being played on this commercial for some fast food place that's added lobster nuggets to its menu. I know I know the piece, but can't recall the title.
> 
> There was a thread a couple of months back where I pointed out that we're constantly exposed to classical music (in the "western" world). Which does not mean that people are going to choose to seek it out to listen to it. That's a whole next step most people don't make.


You have a point about TV. I guess I'm thinking in terms of comparison with pop music.


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## Sorin Eushayson

Reading all these posts I never thought I'd feel old at 20! Look at all you young 18-year-old wippersnappers!


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## Mirror Image

I think it's important for young people to be exposed to all kinds of music whether they understand it or not.

Let's take me for example, my Dad always had jazz, classical, and rock records playing, even though I didn't understand this music, especially jazz and classical, I was left with the impression of this music early on.


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## Sid James

Let's face it, most of classical music is about the past. If you don't have an interest in history to some degree, you won't be interested in classical music.

For young people, rock & pop is about the 'here & now.' It's about popular culture now. This is not a new thing. Before the advent of rock, young people were also into jazz. Like techno today, it was the beat that fuelled them in those smoky nightclubs of yore. Classical music has never given a comfortable background to having a few drinks & catching up with friends, etc. (Unless you count salon music, which was more for the upper classes, anyway). It also isn't a focus for establishing identity in your teens or rebelling against your elders. There is nothing radical about listening to Bach, but listening to the latest rock or pop album can provide a real focus for teenagers in their struggle to be different to the previous generation.

Classical requires some contemplation & concentration, something which is incompatible with the fast lives of teenagers today, who not only go to school & hang out with friends, but maybe have a casual job, do sports, spend time online, watch movies, play computer games, etc. Life for young people today is even more full of other things than it was in the past, so they don't have time or energy to devote to 'serious' music,' unless they are say, studying to play an instrument. But even that can be an add-on to other things, and not a major thing in itself.

These are some of the reasons why young people do not listen to much classical music (in the sense of sitting down & listening, say at home or at a concert. I don't mean exposure to classical via popular culture as in cinema or on television).


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## danae

Andre said:


> Let's face it, most of classical music is about the past. If you don't have an interest in history to some degree, you won't be interested in classical music.


Not exactly true. You can be utterly indifferent about the 18th century and still feel moved by Bach.



Andre said:


> Classical requires some contemplation & concentration, something which is incompatible with the fast lives of teenagers today


I know a lot of young people (teenagers for instance) who tell me that they can't study while listening to music. Why? Because they need to pay attention to it. So, contemplation and concentration are not aspects of classical music only.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

I have to agree with Andre. Classical music like many other things in life require extreme hardcore ultra orthodox concentration.


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## classidaho

I'm 72 and have no idea what the question was but I gotta join in and say I love what we're talking about! , Chuck


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## Margaret

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> I have to agree with Andre. Classical music like many other things in life require extreme hardcore ultra orthodox concentration.


Couldn't prove it by me. Most of the time when I listen to classical music it's as background music for my life. I play it when I'm on the PC or, if I'm going on a long drive especially out West where there are a lot of radio dead areas, I bring classical CDs to listen to as I drive. I play it as I read or even when I'm just thinking and day dreaming. I have conversations and even get togethers with classical music going in the background. Unless I'm searching trying to identify a clip, I rarely pay strict attention to what I'm listening to. And even if I am searching for a clip I can multi-task certain things while still paying enough attention to recognize a clip. Last clip I found while I was in the kitchen cooking dinner. I never listen to classical music (or any kind of music) with "extreme hardcore ultra orthodox concentration." It plays and my life goes on around it.


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## Guest

classidaho said:


> I'm 72 and have no idea what the question was but I gotta join in and say I love what we're talking about! , Chuck


At last some one that is not with the Fairies, it is great to be able to chat about things when you have not the faintest idea what any one is on about< Welcome join the club> you are amongst friends.


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## Drowning_by_numbers

Andante said:


> Music appreciation used to be taught at School, I remember starting with the Triangle and Tambourine at the age of about 7 or 8 and of course the School Choir but I suspect that is obsolete now, you need to hear quality music to realise how bad some of the other stuff is,


Completely agree, there needs to be a better musical education. In the UK anything pre A-level is pretty poor. That is 17/18 for those outside the UK - before that all we ever did was hit glockenspeils playing 12 bar blues etc. Bad times. And I was fortunate enough to have a great music teacher, just a rubbish syllabus.

I'm 20 and I have played piano since I was 3 so I've been brought up on classical music. But I started taking it more seriously when I was about 11 after I joined a church choir. Now I've studying contemporary composition for two years and I can't really bear to listen to much else as I find it so boring! I've just grown to except that by my friends standards I have become a music snob!


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## bdelykleon

I'm 25 not young anymore, but on to classics since I was 12, and I bought Boulez Répons when I was 14, so I was able to enjoy complex music early on (and I do know several other examples of this).


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## harry224

well, i'm 14 years old.


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## emiellucifuge

Played the piano as a young child, then the classical guitar. Like some other I was forced to play the recorder at school.

For a number of years I was extremely into metal and then found Classical, I still like metal though.

Im now 15.



Drowning_by_numbers said:


> Completely agree, there needs to be a better musical education. In the UK anything pre A-level is pretty poor. That is 17/18 for those outside the UK - before that all we ever did was hit glockenspeils playing 12 bar blues etc. Bad times. And I was fortunate enough to have a great music teacher, just a rubbish syllabus.


I completely agree, before the GCSE I didnt get anything, I only got into the right musical way of thinking about 2 days before my exam last week. Hopefully A level will be better.


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## motpasm23

Music as an art form has this odd atmosphere about it in which people think it's boring to pay attention to what was made before 1960. Yet in the Visual Art world, people tend to only 'appreciate' works before 1920 (pre-modern) and in Literature works after 1950 (especially those by American authors) are considered pulp fiction. Since culture is a sequential affair, it baffles me when people say they don't like classical music. Luckily I go to a school where most at least pretend to have some appreciation for it...

I'm 20, but my parents played it a little bit when I grew up, but my interest was never really sparked until I took college-level music theory, and since then I've realized what I've been missing. Even if Pink Floyd's longest song is 26 minutes, it can't possibly produce the kind of affect that an 80-minute Bruckner symphony can.


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## JoeGreen

Margaret said:


> Really? What about........
> TV shows
> Commercials
> Cartoons
> School
> Being put on hold
> Possibly restaurants and other shopping experiences
> Websites you go to that play classical music
> For all I know there are probably some games that use classical music
> 
> Even if I don't put in a CD I probably hear classical music every day.
> 
> Just today I was watching TV and wondering what that famous piece is being played on this commercial for some fast food place that's added lobster nuggets to its menu. I know I know the piece, but can't recall the title.
> 
> There was a thread a couple of months back where I pointed out that we're constantly exposed to classical music (in the "western" world). Which does not mean that people are going to choose to seek it out to listen to it. That's a whole next step most people don't make.


Exposure, but not concentration. In all these formats the music serves as a background noise, it's role is submission, or just to set the mood, but to serve as the focal point.

And that's how the wider public perceives it, it is not to be taken "seriously".


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## emiellucifuge

I think all the comments in this thread concerning the complexity of classical music and that youth dont enjoy it because of this are absurd. Despite what you older people think, i assume about 30% of todays youth are not so media and mass-consumer-culture-driven as you believe. Im 15, im not anything special, yet i listen to the more challenging 20th century as well as the easier going Classical, for example aleatoric and serial styles can be found on my ipod - composers such as Penderecki, Lutoslawski and many from the Second Viennese School most notably Schoenberg, Webern and Berg of course.

Yes its true i get above average grades but im not the only one i know, there are still young people in the world with discernable intellect who dont necessarily follow the 'trends'.

And Classical music is by far not the hardest music to listen too, despite its apparent complexity in terms of purely theoretical means - it is important to remember that the tools used by composers apply to all genres of music. In one thread someone argued that Metal was unlike Classical music because it didnt use hexachordal somethings and neapolitan somethingelses. This is completely ridiculous.


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## Cyclops

Well I was listening to classical when I was in short trousers,i don't know how or why I got interested at such a young age because neither of my parents listened to it (tho my dad was quite musical) 
And none of my siblings listened to it either(I'm the last of 7 children). 
I don't know any young people that like classical per se altho Jonny at work who is in a punk band,will listen to classical guitar occasionally.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

Bach said:


> Probably because they sound bad.


You, good sir, are incorrect!


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## Cyclops

I hated music class at school. You know why? Cos they had all these instruments there including a piano I was dying to get my hands on(i was drawn to keyboards at an early age) but what did they give me to play? The bloody triangle!


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## danae

Whatever the case may be, one can't generalize in the way the title of this thread suggests. Yes, young people do listen to classica music, and no, young people don't listen to classical music... Both notions naive and generalized... and the wierd thing is that they are both true!


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## danae

OK, please don't kill me, I got carried away by the replies. The title of the thread may be somewhat rough or suggests a kind generalization, but it's not what I posted above.


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## Guest

danae said:


> OK, please don't kill me, I got carried away by the replies. The title of the thread may be somewhat rough or suggests a kind generalization, but it's not what I posted above.


You can edit your posts and add things that you missed, or are you trying to boost you post count??


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## danae

Andante said:


> You can edit your posts and add things that you missed, or are you trying to boost you post count??


If you seriously think I'm trying to increase my posts, then I suggest you read some of them. If you discover that they were unneccesary or simply useless......


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## wolf

danae said:


> If you seriously think I'm trying to increase my posts, then I suggest you read some of them. If you discover that they were unneccesary or simply useless......


I think that Andante meant that instead of posting twice you could have edited the first one. But then it should have been a little queer if some readers had already seen it, so I think perhaps you did the right thing to post twice.

As for kids listening to classical, it's not so strange that most of them do not. Laziness doesn't come into it, nor lack of exposure, or fear of not being fashionable. At least thats my view.


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## emiellucifuge

If none of this thiongs come into it, then what are the possible reasons in your view?


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## Library Bob

Tapkaara said:


> Young people do not listen to classical.


Except for a lighter stuff, or music connected with a movie, such as _Fantasia._ A few years ago, when Tower Records still existed, I bought a CD with Ravel's _Bolero_ on it, and the clerk, a college-aged girl who obviously didn't know much about the classics otherwise, said, "Oh, this is great! I just _LOVE_ Ravel's _Bolero._ It's just my favorite piece. By the way, who wrote it?" Well, I couldn't resist, and told her "Cole Porter, I think." She thought I was serious!

As to myself, I discovered classical music, in a big way, the spring after I turned 14. It was March of 1972, and I went with my dad to a Young People's Concert at (then) Philharmonic Hall, with Thomas Schippers guest conducting. The main work was Mussorgsky/Ravel's _Pictures._ That, and the whole Lincoln Center mistique, had me sold, and I've been an avowed classical and opera fan ever since.

And what's sad is, I think that I'm part of the last generation of young people who ever grew up to appreciate the classics. I think, for a lot of today's kids, a trip to the local symphony or opera is little more than a day out of school...after which they go home, plug in their ipods, and listen to the latest rockers.


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## kg4fxg

*Viktoria Mullova*

Well

It is interesting to grow up with artists. What I mean is that I can remember buying a Viktoria Mullova CD as a teen and I just bought one the other day. I feel like we grew up together. You can lean more about her via her website: http://www.viktoriamullova.com/index.asp

Of course I have always liked classical music and beautiful women, nothing is more wonderful than sitting in the front row of a concert and hearing the solo violinist play, seeing her captivate the audience, her feminine presence a gift to us all, while a lilting glimmer of her perfume drifts past my seat.

No, I don't have a thing for Viktoria but rather all female artists. To me it just sounds better if it is a women artist - sorry. It really is not sexual either, I love to hear Martha Argerich play and would love to meet her in person - she is amazing and beautiful!

Yes, I do keep some men in my collection. Alfred Brendal is very gifted and so are others.


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## starry

I think it depends completely on the individual. Of course environment can affect things as well but if the individual is curious enough they will find a way to hear things whether it be radio, a library or nowadays the internet.

Although some classical music is complex much of it isn't. People could hear classical music on the tv or radio as background to something or in an advert and now the internet (for instance youtube) and that could be their way into it, by accident really. The next step would probably be to hear some classical music 'greatest hits' compilation and find composers they want to hear more of and go from there.

Of course classical music isn't the dominant style of music now in most areas of the world, but that's been the case for quite a while. Maybe that means most people will listen to pop music first but that doesn't stop them listening to other types of music over time. How quickly they do that depends on the individual.


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## Praine

I'm almost 18 and only really threw myself into the fire, so to speak, about 3 months ago. Since then, I've found it extremely go back and listen to my prior listening habits again. Classical music just has so much to offer that cannot really be measured with the 'newer' genres of music.


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## Herzeleide

Drowning_by_numbers said:


> Completely agree, there needs to be a better musical education. In the UK anything pre A-level is pretty poor. That is 17/18 for those outside the UK - before that all we ever did was hit glockenspeils playing 12 bar blues etc. Bad times. And I was fortunate enough to have a great music teacher, just a rubbish syllabus.
> 
> I'm 20 and I have played piano since I was 3 so I've been brought up on classical music. But I started taking it more seriously when I was about 11 after I joined a church choir. Now I've studying contemporary composition for two years and I can't really bear to listen to much else as I find it so boring! I've just grown to except that by my friends standards I have become a music snob!


Music education is Britain is an absolute disgrace. One can tell how much contempt is held for music literacy by the fact that one does not have to read music for music GCSE! And harmony and counterpoint only begin at A-level... and even then they're optional!


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## Guest

danae said:


> If you seriously think I'm trying to increase my posts, then I suggest you read some of them. If you discover that they were unneccesary or simply useless......


Wow, did I touch a raw nerve? lighten up sport! 
Your 2nd post would have fitted very easily and coherently as an edit, but do it your way


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

I find kids just don't listen to classical music for two reasons, both stated, but I will be using my past experiences as references.

1.) They don't understand it - This one seems to me as the most apparent. A few months ago on my lunch period at my school, we were driving to go out to lunch, and it was my turn to turn on music. Without thinking I just put my mp3 player on randomize, and on came Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite (Russian Dance) and my friends gave me a wierd look. They asked why I like this kind of stuff, I told them I have listened to it for a while. They thought that (at least this particular part) was mere noise, because of all the instruments seeming "off rhythm" and playing "different melodies." It just made me laugh and I turned on some Led Zeppelin so they could shut up. :rollseyes:

2.) The fear of being "uncool" or "not popular" - This one is less apparent because kids seem to be more closed about their desire to be popular to not appear lame, I have never seen a kid say they don't like classical music because its "not popular," but this can mainly be seen throughout time periods of music. Jazz had its time where it was popular, then rock and roll, then hard rock and psychedelia, then rap and hip hop/pop.


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## Herzeleide

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> Jazz had its time where it was popular, then rock and roll, then hard rock and psychedelia, then rap and hip hop/pop.


... then metal.


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## Cyclops

In my experience kids don't listen to classical because they associate it with old people,men in tweed jackets and a pipe,on big country estates. And authority figures. Kids don't like authority figures.


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## Cyclops

Herzeleide said:


> ... then metal.


Metal came along well before psychodelic pop etc. Back in the early 70s there was a band called Iron Maiden. Now hang on I don't mean the Eddie toting Bruce Dickinson band but an earlier band that had that name but soon folded. But even before that there was Led Zeppelin,the gods of proto metal some would say. Actually they were more Blues rock.


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## Herzeleide

Cyclops said:


> Metal came along well before psychodelic pop etc. Back in the early 70s there was a band called Iron Maiden. Now hang on I don't mean the Eddie toting Bruce Dickinson band but an earlier band that had that name but soon folded. But even before that there was Led Zeppelin,the gods of proto metal some would say. Actually they were more Blues rock.


Yes, I wasn't being strictly chronological. Rather, I took issue with metal being raised above its status as a form of popular music, which it manifestly is.


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## Cyclops

Yes indeed metal is a form of popular music especially if you take the true meaning of popular as 'of the people',its not as popular as pop per se. I can take or leave modern metal,especially the death metal stuff which really needs laying to rest alongside rap and hip hop. Oh and what they now call R&B,which is nothing like true R&B. More like B&B


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

Herzeleide said:


> ... then metal.


NWOBHM. Not Metal. It was a subgenre that had a rock and roll sound that became popular. You will never find a period in time where death metal or black metal was popular.

EDIT #2: And also nowadays with the metalcore/nu metal scene. These genres aren't even considered metal, while NWOBHM is. Metalcore and nu/metal do take influence from pop, rap, and pop pock and punk rock. People think they are metal merely because they are loud, screaming, and have distorted guitars, when that is not the case. That does not really define metal.

But yes, one sub genre of metal was popular for a good decade and are still popular today.


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## Cyclops

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> NWOBHM.


What on earth is that? I'm useless with acronyms


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## Praine

It stands for the New Wave of British Heavy Metal.


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## Guest

At the concerts that I go to 75% of audience would be in the over 65 group, the rest being made up of a mixture between say 25 - 65 but some of this group (25-65) do bring children with them (under 16s get in free) so at least some kind of effort is being made,


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## wolf

Andante said:


> ...but some of this group (25-65) do bring children with them (under 16s get in free) so at least some kind of effort is being made,


Yes, that is a crime to the rest of the listeners, lol. Seriously todays kids are more certain to accidentally or otherwise, hear classical music. My daughter didn't hear anything else at home. She doesn't care for it one bit.

At least until 1926 few had grammophones or radio, and how often were there concerts they could afford? Classical is everywhere, in movies, sometimes on radio channels, Youtube, in music lessons in school, in your parents or grandparents CD collections.

Many started in classical music when they heard 'spring', 'fuhr Elise', and suchlike, got curious and listened more and more, millions have heard those pieces today TOO. Look at youtube Mozarts 'Elvira Madigan', countless of poplisteners obviously who had heard it somwhere and likes it. Why don't they 'go on' it's only a computerbutton away, and on the commentairies board at the 21th K467, many friendly classicals are advising them to listen to this and that also. Surely some of them do. But they don't go on. So, whats wrong?


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## Guest

wolf said:


> Many started in classical music when they heard 'spring', 'fuhr Elise', and suchlike, got curious and listened more and more, millions have heard those pieces today TOO. Look at youtube Mozarts 'Elvira Madigan', countless of poplisteners obviously who had heard it somwhere and likes it. Why don't they 'go on' it's only a computerbutton away, and on the commentairies board at the 21th K467, many friendly classicals are advising them to listen to this and that also. Surely some of them do. But they don't go on. So, whats wrong?


You are quite correct, just look at this forum and how many times we get asked "What is this tune" etc, at least it makes them aware that they have heard something classical and it obviously had some impression upon them, I don't think there is anything wrong, at least the particular piece has made them take notice and it may grow over the years


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

Cyclops said:


> What on earth is that? I'm useless with acronyms


The New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Pretty much the transition of Hard Rock becoming Heavy Metal. Metal then took its course from there.


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## bdelykleon

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> NWOBHM. Not Metal. It was a subgenre that had a rock and roll sound that became popular. You will never find a period in time where death metal or black metal was popular.


Curiously, most metalheads are scared with the word popular. Being popular or mainstream is their worse scenario, in wikipedia it is urious that every metal subgenre has a tag to it "mainstream appeal", this is really important to them. I would dare to say that most headbangers enjoy being underground for reasons suh as wanting to separate themselves from society, misanthropy, or God knows what.

Classical music is not popular, but I do not have anything against people hearing and discussing Beethoven, Schütz, Albéniz, whatever in the street and MTV starting to broadcast MET operas and recitals with Pollini playing Boulez 3 sonatas. The more the better.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

bdelykleon said:


> Curiously, most metalheads are scared with the word popular. Being popular or mainstream is their worse scenario, in wikipedia it is urious that every metal subgenre has a tag to it "mainstream appeal", this is really important to them. I would dare to say that most headbangers enjoy being underground for reasons suh as wanting to separate themselves from society, misanthropy, or God knows what.
> 
> Classical music is not popular, but I do not have anything against people hearing and discussing Beethoven, Schütz, Albéniz, whatever in the street and MTV starting to broadcast MET operas and recitals with Pollini playing Boulez 3 sonatas. The more the better.


Metal listeners don't like their music being mainstream for the idea that they believe that their music is pure being in the underground. Becoming mainstream means to most listeners that the music will be abused with advertisement, and ruin the whole point of their music. There is also the idea of bands "selling out."


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## wolf

Andante said:


> ...I don't think there is anything wrong, at least the particular piece has made them take notice and it may grow over the years


Yes but that has always been the case, why is it more SELDOM it happens today, when the possibilities are greater? I mean, just 20 years ago there were 2 - if not three - record stores selling NOTHING but classical in my home town. Now you have difficulties finding anything but "The best of..." even in the largest stores. As classical gets less and less percentage of listeners every year, what has happened?



Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> ...1.) They don't understand it...2.) The fear of being "uncool"...


 The first reason, yes but why don't they 'understand', the second is not unimportant, although it's not the main reason...



bdelykleon said:


> ...I do not have anything against people hearing and discussing Beethoven, Schütz, Albéniz, whatever in the street...


 Nor do I - I only wished that I heard it sometimes...lol.


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## JoeGreen

Library Bob said:


> Except for a lighter stuff, or music connected with a movie, such as _Fantasia._ A few years ago, when Tower Records still existed, I bought a CD with Ravel's _Bolero_ on it, and the clerk, a college-aged girl who obviously didn't know much about the classics otherwise, said, "Oh, this is great! I just _LOVE_ Ravel's _Bolero._ It's just my favorite piece..


Good Point, take for example That Twilight Book/Movie Series, it recently made Debussy's Claire de Lune popular among the teenage girl fans.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

wolf said:


> Yes but that has always been the case, why is it more SELDOM it happens today, when the possibilities are greater? I mean, just 20 years ago there were 2 - if not three - record stores selling NOTHING but classical in my home town. Now you have difficulties finding anything but "The best of..." even in the largest stores. As classical gets less and less percentage of listeners every year, what has happened?
> 
> The first reason, yes but why don't they 'understand', the second is not unimportant, although it's not the main reason...
> 
> Nor do I - I only wished that I heard it sometimes...lol.


They don't understand it because most kids nowadays are not exposed to it too much, if at all, and are too used to listening to more simple music, so when they listen to something more complicated, they are unable to comprehend it and are unable to enjoy it.


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## emiellucifuge

No matter what your opinion is of metal, i think I have seen a lot of evidence to show that Metal does act as a sort of Bridge - especially for younger people, to get into classical Music.


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## Jaichan

Im 15 years old but i started playing the piano since i was six, and i also had interest in classical Music maybe around 8 or 9 years old, Originally i was interested in classical music, I had proper training for 6 months now, so im still an amateur i can play Valse opus 64no.2 no.4, minute waltz, by chopin, still an amateur thu


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## starry

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> I find kids just don't listen to classical music for two reasons, both stated, but I will be using my past experiences as references.
> 
> 1.) They don't understand it - This one seems to me as the most apparent. A few months ago on my lunch period at my school, we were driving to go out to lunch, and it was my turn to turn on music. Without thinking I just put my mp3 player on randomize, and on came Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite (Russian Dance) and my friends gave me a wierd look. They asked why I like this kind of stuff, I told them I have listened to it for a while. They thought that (at least this particular part) was mere noise, because of all the instruments seeming "off rhythm" and playing "different melodies." It just made me laugh and I turned on some Led Zeppelin so they could shut up. :rollseyes:
> 
> 2.) The fear of being "uncool" or "not popular" - This one is less apparent because kids seem to be more closed about their desire to be popular to not appear lame, I have never seen a kid say they don't like classical music because its "not popular," but this can mainly be seen throughout time periods of music. Jazz had its time where it was popular, then rock and roll, then hard rock and psychedelia, then rap and hip hop/pop.


1) Of course nobody when they first listen to classical music will be attuned to it, unless they are brought up from when they are very young listening to it. As I said before it hasn't been the mainstream musical style for a long time, this is *nothing new*. That doesn't however mean that someone can't get used to a particular style. You can't expect someone to go straight to listening to Beethoven's third symphony for example. I remember when I started and I heard a bit of Solti's set of Beethoven symphonies, it was way too daunting for me at that point. It's when people start with the simpler famous tunes (which is what they normally do) that they can progress eventually to the more complex pieces.

2) Of course some will just go with what is cool and stay with that. Others will go with what is cool and then look beyond that. It depends on the individual. But pop music is the main musical style of the media and has been for ages, most people will naturally start with that.



wolf said:


> At least until 1926 few had grammophones or radio, and how often were there concerts they could afford? Classical is everywhere, in movies, sometimes on radio channels, Youtube, in music lessons in school, in your parents or grandparents CD collections.
> 
> Many started in classical music when they heard 'spring', 'fuhr Elise', and suchlike, got curious and listened more and more, millions have heard those pieces today TOO. Look at youtube Mozarts 'Elvira Madigan', countless of poplisteners obviously who had heard it somwhere and likes it. Why don't they 'go on' it's only a computerbutton away, and on the commentairies board at the 21th K467, many friendly classicals are advising them to listen to this and that also. Surely some of them do. But they don't go on. So, whats wrong?


Yeh but as I said classical music has always been around in TV commercials or background music or whatever. It is available even more now with the internet for instance. The normal way into classical music hasn't changed...it's about hearing a famous melody and wanting to hear it in full.

But remember in the age we live in now although there is much more classical music potentially available, there is also much more of other types of music available, there are many computer games available, there are many more films and TV programs available. There's a huge resource of things now to fill people's leisure time and alot of this is because of the internet and it's global reach. There is too much out there for someone to look at everything, there are many competing distractions. I actually read that in Britain computer games are actually outselling music now.


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## Cyclops

Mainstream means mediocre to many people,and noone wants to be mediocre.


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## Herzeleide

bdelykleon said:


> Curiously, most metalheads are scared with the word popular.


Yes, it's funny how seriously they take themselves.


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## danae

Andante said:


> Wow, did I touch a raw nerve? lighten up sport!
> Your 2nd post would have fitted very easily and coherently as an edit, but do it your way


Yeah Andante, actually you did, because you -even momentarily- assumed something about me which was entirely unfounded. And since I always pay attention to what's being said and I never post comments without content, naturally I was offended.


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## livemylife

I'm 17 and when I was around 4, my mom bought a cassette of famous violin pieces. Even though my parents are not musicians themselves, I think they still enjoyed classical music. Anyways, I subconsciously remembered Liebesfreud, Liebesleid, and Zigunerweisen when I heard them again in my teens.
That and playing the cello encouraged me to love classical music. I think playing an instrument gives you a deeper connection to the music regardless of age.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

emiellucifuge said:


> No matter what your opinion is of metal, i think I have seen a lot of evidence to show that Metal does act as a sort of Bridge - especially for younger people, to get into classical Music.


Agreed. Even though I was introduced to classical at a young age, I never really got into it until after I started listening to it. Then I really started to understand and enjoy classical music, now so more than metal. This is true with most of my friends whom are into metal, they either get into classical or jazz later on, or both.


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## Lisztfreak

Cyclops said:


> Mainstream means mediocre to many people,and noone wants to be mediocre.


... and then everyone is mediocre.

But I think most people just don't think about mediocrity. They listen to trash music and enjoy it. And are unaware of how pathetically mediocre they are...


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## 2xreed

I can never remember a moment in my life without classical music being a part of it. I'm 16 now, started learning piano at around age 6 and took up oboe when I was ten. Now oboe has become my main instrument and I accompany on the side to keep up with my piano skills. My mother studied piano from kindergarten through college. She wasn't a music major, but she was very good. There was always music playing in our house and for that I am grateful. I would say that my interest in classical music has been developing since as far back as I can remember. Since I was around 10 years old, oddly enough, it would be me begging my parents to take me to the next orchestra concert or recital.

While many of my friends do not have any interest at all in classical music, some are completely obsessed with it, and not just the "simple" stuff or war-horse pieces. A lot of it, in my opinion, does have a lot to do with their parents and how they grew up (this is especially true in my own case). However, some of my friends' parents have no interest in classical music at all, and their children had to find their love for classical music by themselves.

This is not to say that I only listen to classical music and nothing else. There is a lot of good quality music outside the classical genre that has become popular. Not all of it is "mediocre trash music" 

My $0.02


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## wisetankian

I am 17 years old right now, and really got into actually listening and researching classical music maybe at the end of my 16th year...I started studying violin at the age of 4, and now, play the viola full time, switching to the viola at the end of 2008...I absolutely love classical music now- I have maybe an unusual attraction and appreciation for it especially for my age- whilst the normal majority of seniors of highschool do not partake in such listening...I'm enthusiastic about classical music very much so- especially cello, viola, and violin concerti as well as sonatas or other forms that just appeal to me...I'd love to meet someone my age who has the some love and enthusiasm towards classical music...


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## wisetankian

and i dont know if this says anything, but at a local library, I rented out 35 classical cds...loved em all soo so much..


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## Cortision

I consider myself fortunate to have been exposed to classical music from a young age. I was brought up listening mainly to Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and Mozart. My knowledge of composers and works was limited, but I remember being ostracised at Primary School because i liked 'opera' (although I was no real opera fan; the other kids just had no idea what was what). 

When I was about thirteen or fourteen I became interested a lot more with Pop music, mainly from the sixties and seventies, not having much of a stomach for rap, death metal or anything too heavy. Coincidentally or not, this roughly coincided with the period between our record player breaking and the purchase of a CD player - the radio being the only source of music at the time. By the time I was fifteen or so I was heartily sick of it, having worked out that there was more variety and emotional depth in a single Beethoven symphony than the entire life's work of most pop bands. I went back to classical music, listening with great enthusiasm to the standard repertoire. 

Recently I have started to explore more and more music, and my CD collection (although about 0.1% of MI's collection) is starting to build up, as finances permit. Coincidentally or not, this has coincided with my deciding to start piano tuition, better late than never, at the age of 23. I am now 24.


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## Mirror Image

Cortision said:


> Recently I have started to explore more and more music, and my CD collection (although about 0.1% of MI's collection) is starting to build up.


Well that's good you started to explore more classical, there is so much out there and so many composers. Somedays I don't even know who to listen to!


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## bplary

I'm 17 and have played piano for around 10 years now. But, I didn't start listening to classical music until really about a year ago. I've turned into quite the avid listener/collector now...love it.


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## Mirror Image

bplary said:


> I'm 17 and have played piano for around 10 years now. But, I didn't start listening to classical music until really about a year ago. I've turned into quite the avid listener/collector now...love it.


You're an avid collector? About how many classical CDs do have in your collection?


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## bplary

Well, since I'm fairly new to classical music I don't have a massive collection but I'd say around....100 maybe? A lot of it is downloaded digitally via itunes so it translates over to 7.94 GB worth.


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## Mirror Image

bplary said:


> Well, since I'm fairly new to classical music I don't have a massive collection but I'd say around....100 maybe? A lot of it is downloaded digitally via itunes so it translates over to 7.94 GB worth.


Don't get me started on downloading. It's a....forget it, just don't get me started on it.


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## bplary

I can definitely see why people don't like downloading and personally I love having a hard copy the CD and a nice case as well. Mostly the reason I download is for value rather than convenience, money is hard to come by as a 17 year old


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## Mirror Image

bplary said:


> I can definitely see why people don't like downloading and personally I love having a hard copy the CD and a nice case as well. Mostly the reason I download is for value rather than convenience, money is hard to come by as a 17 year old


I can buy a whole box set of Bruckner symphonies cheaper than you can download it right now. Are you familiar with Amazon Marketplace sellers? They sell merchandise on Amazon a lot cheaper than Amazon has something listed for. I seldom buy directly from Amazon (if ever). You should definitely check that out.


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## bplary

I actually just discovered that today, prompting my purchase of four new CDs!


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## Mirror Image

bplary said:


> I actually just discovered that today, prompting my purchase of four new CDs!


You'll save a lot more money buying from Marketplace sellers than you will buying from Amazon directly. Before you know it, you're collection has doubled in size! 

I probably own around 2,500 classical CDs to give a guess. I haven't actually counted them yet.


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> I can buy a whole box set of Bruckner symphonies cheaper than you can download it right now. .


Then you are d/l from the wrong place,


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Then you are d/l from the wrong place,


Well I don't download music at all. I enjoy buying CDs, especially when their cheap.


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## Yoshi

I'm 16 and I love classical music. Actualy I remember loving some composers especialy Beethoven when I was 6 or even younger. I never had anyone in my class at school that liked classical because... that's just how it is. (Most) Teenagers will always be obsessed with popularity, and classical music among them is seen as something that 'old' people do. It's not popular therefore they are scared to be left out because of it, BUT this doensn't mean they wouldn't like it. Trust me, I knew some that liked it but didn't want to admit in front of others. And there's the ones that refuse to give it a try too.


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## The Cosmos

Man, I don't think anyone needs to be old and mature to appreciate it. I'm 21, and I love it for the music part alone! I've still yet to 'mature' (never will I think; the idea sounds too boring ) but exposing classical music to people without any form of pretension should fix half the problem. I can say for sure that this is true with all other forms of music too, not just classical. A lot of great artists hardly get any exposure and the media mass marketed music now-a-days unfortunately ain't all that great.


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## emiellucifuge

Im 15.

I do prefer to buy CDs but it isnt always the most practical.

My itunes library (bear in mind this includes CDs ive ripped) is about 70GB of classical. about 6000 tracks with a total length of 25.6 days listening.

I have a lot of other music too.


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## Sorin Eushayson

"...I am credibly informed that young humans now suppress an incipient taste for classical music or good literature because it might prevent their Being Like Folks; that people who would really wish to be - and are offered the Grace which would enable them to be - honest, chaste, or temperate refuse it. To accept might make them Different, might offend against the Way of Life, take them out of Togetherness, impair their Integration with the Group. They might (horror of horrors!) become individuals."
-Screwtape, _The Screwtape Letters_

I was shocked when I read that - it's exactly how I view it! C.S. Lewis wrote that more than half a century ago, anticipating this digression even then.


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## Very Senior Member

emiellucifuge said:


> Im 15.
> 
> I do prefer to buy CDs but it isnt always the most practical.
> 
> My itunes library (bear in mind this includes CDs ive ripped) is about 70GB of classical. about 6000 tracks with a total length of 25.6 days listening.
> 
> I have a lot of other music too.


Taking your classical selection only, have you tried to work out how many hours of music you have in net terms, i.e. taking only one version of each work? I did this exercise for my collection earlier this year and found that my total collection of classical music came to about 1500 hours and the net figure was 1150 hours. The largest number of hours in net terms was for Haydn, then Mozart, then Beethoven. In total I have works by some 300 classical composers from Hildegard von Bingen up to Ligeti. Most of it however is concentrated in the period 1760-1890.


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## Davidjo

I don't know what Medieval Miami is on about. Following one instrument at a time? Ridiculous. But also remember, that in these days of multi-tracking you can easily have more than 10 instruments playing - and playing quite independent lines and tempos - even in "simple" pop songs. 

I think young people listen to classical music all the time: in films, on TV adverts. They are mostly unaware of it and they rebel at the idea of focussing on classical music alone . However, its there, somewhere in their sub-conscious, whereas 150 years ago very few people would ever hear classical music. They would know only folk music.


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## nimmysnv

Hi,

I just love to have classical music as, this is something that trully touches your soul and also make you feel very relaxed and calm.


I am trully a big fan of classical music as it just flows through my soul.


Thanks!!


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## 3rdplanetsounds

I'm 41 but remember getting into classical when I was 19,I listened to rock and pop up until then,but found the music getting a little bland in the 90's,so I got classical 'hits' when I got my first CD player in 1990,and never looked back!It took me a good few years to fully understand the diffrent musical language but never found it boring.There are some very boring peices of classical but the genre is so vast youll always find something you would like.It just takes time to do it.I think Classical music now is so more accesable and accepted by young people then in my days, in the 1980's classical music in the UK was very much looked on as only posh people listen to,but it is music for everyone.I see classical music as the 'pop' music now and listening to my favourate rock groups,(I'm really into Muse right now) as the more in specialist listening.


----------



## nimmysnv

Hi
I'm starting to listen to classical music when I am studying. Helps me concentrate more. I listen to a classical radio station when I am studying. It's actually not that bad. One time I listened to guitar playing on that radio station and I was able to concentrate more. I would listen to that even if I wasn't studying. I just love how the guitar sounds. It was so peaceful.


----------



## maestro267

I'm 20 and I've been into classical music for about 3 years-ish now. I think there's room in the world (or at least my music collection) for both pop/rock and classical. One minute I'll be listening to Mahler and then I might put some Pink Floyd on (or something like that).


----------



## Argus

I am 21 and have been listening to classical music for about 18 months now. I can pretty much show my musical progression in a chronological timeline.

Age: 0-12 pop music
12-15 dance/techno/hip hop
15-17 indie and modern rock
17-19 classic rock/metal/prog/krautrock
19 jazz
20 classical

The big change in my musical tastes came when I began to first learn the bass and then the guitar when I was 17. I suddenly began to look back through time for good music and became less discriminatory towards music of previous generations. I listen to almost none of the same stuff I listened to before I started to learn an instrument and study music theory.

I am definitely the exception to most people in that I got into classical and romantic music through modern composers like Terry Riley and John Zorn or Prog Rock bands like King Crimson and Yes. I still can't get into ELP though.

Most people I know my age just won't give classical music a chance and have a predisposed mindset of classical being posh or boring or exclusive even though they will happily listen to it in a film or television show.

However, classical music is far more popular amongst young people than one of my other favourite styles of music, Jazz. I sometimes play some free jazz or dodecaphonic music to my friends or at work. It garnishes some intereting responses.

My final point is that if classical music is to become even slightly more popular amongst youth in Britain,there needs to be a complete overhaul of the way music is taught in schools. I learnt practically nothing about music in school. Maybe some kind of music appreciation class or even a general art appreciation class where music from the likes of Purcell, Elgar and VW can be explored alongside other great British artists like Brian Eno, John McLaughlin and Led Zeppelin.


----------



## Comus

Argus said:


> I am definitely the exception to most people in that I got into classical and romantic music through modern composers like Terry Riley and John Zorn or Prog Rock bands like King Crimson and Yes. I still can't get into ELP though.


I'm also 21 and got into classical through prog. Progressive rock gave me an appreciation for more technical music and music as art. I can't get into ELP either!

In the US I think people are largely ignorant of how expansive classical music is. They view it as Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven who all lived 400-500 years ago. They think it's way in the past, but we all know that Beethoven was still alive fewer than 200 years ago and it didn't stop there. It's also not taken as seriously in school as it should. "Band kids" seem to be involved in it for Band rather than the music. Given a choice between a piece of art music playable at their level and the soundtrack to Aladdin they'll choose the latter because it's fun and silly. This way it's hard to appreciate music as anything more than a part of the Band cult in high school.

These are not from a lot of first hand experience, but my girlfriend played French horn for years and quit because the High School music programs "killed it" for her.


----------



## Wicked_one

I'm 20, but I've started with classical since I was a kid... about 7 or 8.. in the same time I've started listening to heavy metal and now they complete each other  I get to listen to heavy metal and when I'm bored of it (yeah, it does happen), I turn to my classical collection .

Then again I have moments when I turn a musical idea from the classical world into a heavy metal riff ( I play guitar  )... yeah, a bit Malmsteen-esque (for those of you who know about him.. rock guitarist), but heavy enough and changed a bit, of course. Not copy/paste.

So yeah, I do listen and I'm glad to see young people from 6-7 years old to 20-30 attending all kind of concerts. Don't know about the opera, cause I'm not that interested in it, but I think there are young people as well


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## Listener

I'm 27, and first got into classical around 19. While I listened to music before that I was never serious about music before I got into classical.


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## Huilunsoittaja

MEEEEEE!

I'm 17, and I love classical music. I prefer it over almost everything else. I want to be a professional musician, in consequence. Or is is that I want to be a musician that I love classical music? :O


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## grignon

Few. 
I think it's because the lyrics and repetition of popular music are just more attractive to most youth. Under 20 years or so.

Both of my sons play cello. A high school freshman and 6th grader. They seem to enjoy it and don't grouse when I insist on 20 minutes a day practice. I bought the Dvorak, Elgar and Shostakovitch cello concertos to play on our long drives to visit my mom. Their response was either "That's nice dad. Put on Warren Zevon or Steely Dan." or "Can you turn it down? I can't hear my Ipod."

The freshman really enjoys the background/theme music from video games and anime. Most of his mp3 files are these. Much of it is scored for orchestra or a digital simulacrum. Some is high quality but the attraction is in how it evokes his experience playing the game or watching the anime.


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## Ravellian

Not very many, because (1) they have short attention spans and (2) classical music uses older instruments, so young people won't think they're hip and cool. At least, that's what I thought when I was younger... and lots of my friends.

Now of course I'm 21 and I can't stand listening to pop music because most of it is so stupidly simple. For me, listening to most pop music as anything besides background noise is about as exciting as staring at the carpet.


----------



## MattTheTubaGuy

I'm 20, and I have listened to classical all my life. 
I have a large collection, 278 hours in all (11.6 days), most from the local library, which has a fantastic collection. my library is also subscribed to Naxos, so I can listen to any of the music on there for free.

my favourite composer is Tchaikovsky, but Russian composers in general are good, like Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky, and Rachmaninov.

modern pop music is just plain boring, and irritating. far too repetitive, and why do they all seem to have a constant irritating drum beat?


----------



## Random

I'll throw in my opinion on the "Why young people don't like classical music" discussion.

The main reason I believe the majority of young people don't like classical music is because they are not open minded about things. There opinion/brain/hobbies is like a box, and whatever is the coolest trend is, is whats in the box, nothing else can get in the box unless it is the newest coolest trend that all their friends do or wear or listen to. They simply won't consider anything else unless it is what their friends or everyone else is into. This only goes for the majority of young people, not all people. Young people also worry about what other young people think, even though they do not admit it. Young people tend to only care about "fitting in" when it comes to what they do, say, wear and listen to.

Also when I say "young people'" I'm talking about people under the age of at least 20 or so.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

MattTheTubaGuy said:


> I'm 20, and I have listened to classical all my life.
> I have a large collection, 278 hours in all (11.6 days), most from the local library, which has a fantastic collection. my library is also subscribed to Naxos, so I can listen to any of the music on there for free.
> 
> my favourite composer is Tchaikovsky, but Russian composers in general are good, like Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky, and Rachmaninov.
> 
> modern pop music is just plain boring, and irritating. far too repetitive, and why do they all seem to have a constant irritating drum beat?


 Yay! Another Russian fan!

I agree with the comment on pop music. I've had to play even a version of a rap song in my marching band as a stand tune, and that really fought my patience. I wanted to rip up that music, which was hardly anything anyways, just repeating like 4 notes.


----------



## Argus

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Yay! Another Russian fan!
> 
> I agree with the comment on pop music. I've had to play even a version of a rap song in my marching band as a stand tune, and that really fought my patience. I wanted to rip up that music, which was hardly anything anyways, just repeating like 4 notes.


Grandmaster Flash > Glazunov.


----------



## Banchan

I'm 16 and I listen to a lot of classical music. My mother is a pianist so I learned to appreciate classical music at a young age.

I've found that almost all of my friends listen to classical music (though not exclusively). We're a quiet bunch so I think the general opinion on teenagers and their music tastes is based on the outspoken popular-music loving demographic


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Argus said:


> Grandmaster Flash > Glazunov.


 You have declared war.

Sike, I don't care so much anymore.


----------



## bestmann

Living in Paris I have a different view. Here classical music sales are three times what they are in America (i.e. 9% of overall sales). As an expat, I see America devaluing the arts and cutting their coverage in the press.
If you care, classical music is as addictive as any drug and I was hooked as a teen. Never looked back and don't listen to anything else. David Byrne has nothing on Mozartbest education


----------



## jhar26

Random said:


> I'll throw in my opinion on the "Why young people don't like classical music" discussion.
> 
> The main reason I believe the majority of young people don't like classical music is because they are not open minded about things. There opinion/brain/hobbies is like a box, and whatever is the coolest trend is, is whats in the box, nothing else can get in the box unless it is the newest coolest trend that all their friends do or wear or listen to. They simply won't consider anything else unless it is what their friends or everyone else is into. This only goes for the majority of young people, not all people. Young people also worry about what other young people think, even though they do not admit it. Young people tend to only care about "fitting in" when it comes to what they do, say, wear and listen to.
> 
> Also when I say "young people'" I'm talking about people under the age of at least 20 or so.


Good points. Many youngsters are also obsessed with image. Which 17 year old wouldn't want to be a pop or rock star, earning millions, boinking as many chicks as you can, partying with Paris Hilton and Amy Whinehouse.....sounds much more attractive to them than what they consider to be a bunch of nerds in a suit fronted by a spastic making funny faces at them and waving his arms about.

And compared to the time when I was a teenager even popular music is much less important to today's youngsters. Today there's competition from the internet, video games, movies on DVD and many other things that compete with music for the attention of young people.


----------



## Random

jhar26 said:


> Good points. Many youngsters are also obsessed with image. Which 17 year old wouldn't want to be a pop or rock star, earning millions, boinking as many chicks as you can, partying with Paris Hilton and Amy Whinehouse.....sounds much more attractive to them than what they consider to be a bunch of nerds in a suit fronted by a spastic making funny faces at them and waving his arms about.
> 
> And compared to the time when I was a teenager even popular music is much less important to today's youngsters. Today there's competition from the internet, video games, movies on DVD and many other things that compete with music for the attention of young people.


True, teenagers would much rather spend an hour texting or doing something fun online than spend an hour listening to a symphony, sad but true in my opinion. You're right about how young people are obsessed with image, things like music videos make it seems like its all just unbelievably fun and a person with a life full of nothing but fun is too much for a young person to resist idolizing.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I am 16 years old. hehe ...


----------



## elp

this thread reminds that i been thinking what if there was one of thos youth subcultures around classical music

it will be really annoing


----------



## Redheaded Soprano

*I am still learning......*

I have a 20-year old daughter who listens to just about everything. Her ipod can go from Zach Brown to Bach to The Beatles to Little Big Town to Bing Crosby to Patsy Cline. She is now downloading her favorite Christmas stuff, and her choices are also quite varied. I am proud of her. I was a classical music snob most of my life (with the exception of the Beatles...saw them live at Hollywood Bowl). I usually can't stand country western (although I love Zach Brown's "Sic 'em on a Chicken). I hate rap, which really isn't music at all, just rhythmic speaking, and what they call rock 'n roll today doesn't compare to the 60's. But she loves it all.

In my own defense, my family has its share of classical composers and professors and opera singers. My grandfather was the prof. of Music at the University of Illinois in the 40's, 50s, and 60s. I had the Messiah totally memorized by the age of 12 and Beethoven's 9th by 15, German and all. My great-grandfather, however, was Charles Austin Miles, composer of "In the Garden", the old Gospel song. He believed it a sin to NOT use your talent to deliver Gospel music, whether you sang or composed. My grandfather, his son, disagreed and they never really spoke late in life. As I loved my grandfather so deeply, I sided with him. Classical music, for the most part, soothes me, makes me happy and makes me cry. When I am performing on stage I feel, sometimes, as if I am all alone and not surrounded by several hundred other singers. It is my world, and I revel in it.

But my daughter has taught me to be more open about music. I actually listen now. Some of them are talented...many are not. HOW do some of these new 'singers' get recording contracts? On the other hand, there are some, like Taylor Swift, who write their own stuff, play the guitar AND sing wonderfully. I will probably never be so 'snooty' again. At 57, I am still learning......


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## Meaghan

elp said:


> this thread reminds that i been thinking what if there was one of thos youth subcultures around classical music
> 
> it will be really annoing


Haha. Depending on how you define a subculture, one could argue there _are_. Through my youth orchestra in high school and then the music department at my college, I've become part of communities of young people who are very passionate about classical music.


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## elp

Meaghan said:


> Haha. Depending on how you define a subculture, one could argue there _are_. Through my youth orchestra in high school and then the music department at my college, I've become part of communities of young people who are very passionate about classical music.


but there is a diference beatween people who enjoy music, and people who make music this life, that is how i understand a subculture


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## Meaghan

elp said:


> but there is a diference beatween people who enjoy music, and people who make music this life, that is how i understand a subculture


If that is your definition, it seems to me that at least conservatory students would qualify.


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## mIndex

Many of these reasons of why teenagers don't like classical are just stereotypes that do apply to SOME teenagers. Many do just follow whatever MTV and pop radio stations feed them. However, if these people weren't just listening to easily accessible music, many probably wouldn't be motivated to listen to anything. Most of them are just casual listeners who would probably not be very interested in classical no matter what. Some of them do choose their music just to look cool. 

Many, however, just listen to what they want, which in many cases just isn't classical. Then there are the ones, like me, that do listen to classical. I would say its less of "youth don't listen to classical" than "Not many new people become interested in Classical" at this point in time. 
I would say that many of the people who listen to music for the image wouldn't really be that welcome in the classical community anyways, but judging by the poorly thought out and quite frankly childish attacks on metal that seem so frequent here, I think they'd fit right in, unfortunately.


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## clavichorder

I thought I'd take this as an opportunity to reveal my age to the TC community, I'm 19. Another exception to the teenage norm here, and I've been listening intently since age 8, and I've never liked music with words as much, though I did go through a classic rock phase, so even classical songs don't impress me much usually. The only singing I ever grew to like was classic rock and blues singing because I grew up with it, its my father's music. My tastes definitely do not take after my parent's tastes, and I've yet to meet another person my age with such an interest in obscure classical era composers.


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## regressivetransphobe

Kids are insecure and desperate for peer approval, so things like art exist purely in a social context for them. The Decemberists' new album (or whatever their particular clique likes) is trendy and gives them something to chat about; Faure's requiem does not. Same with the new Transformers movie and, say, The Seventh Seal. 

I'm generalizing, but teens aren't really the complete people adults are. Getting into classical music is like approaching something in a vacuum for most of them. It would probably be like me trying to get into gangsta rap, I'd just have no idea where to start.


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## Guest

Regressivetransphobe: you make a lot of sense here. "Kids are insecure and desperate for peer approval", yes. I am an ex-highschool teacher and well know about all this. However, I used to bring serious music into the classroom for senior students and, because I had the kids' respect, whenever anyone dissented the rest would howl, "shut up, and don't show your ignorance". Yes, that was a buzz.


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## itywltmt

Three words: Saturday morning cartoons:

http://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/itywltmt/217-itywltmt-s-klassical-music.html


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## Guest

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I used to bring serious music into the classroom for senior students and, because I had the kids' respect, whenever anyone dissented the rest would howl, "shut up, and don't show your ignorance". Yes, that was a buzz.


Are children taught music appreciation to day? I thought it was a thing of the past


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## arts

My father introduced me to classic music when I was 15. when my daughter was 3 years old, I started bring her to see opera and symphony. It was sad to see that very few young people go to enjoy the classic play. My daughter loves classical music now. I think that we can be programed when we were young for almost everything, not just music.


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## Guest

arts said:


> My father introduced me to classic music when I was 15. when my daughter was 3 years old, I started bring her to see opera and symphony. It was sad to see that very few young people go to enjoy the classic play. My daughter loves classical music now. I think that we can be programed when we were young for almost everything, not just music.


You are absolutely spot on arts, the home environment is so important in every way


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## Klavierspieler

I'm fifteen and there is very little that I can stand other than classical music.


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## Klavierspieler

Andante said:


> Are children taught music appreciation to day? I thought it was a thing of the past


At my school there is only a Jazz band and (of course) recorder ensemble. I also would not consider the education the kids are getting in this area to be of much worth. However, there is a school in my state where families will move into the area if their kids have musical ability just so they can go to this High School.


----------



## Stasou

I am 14 but started seriously listening about a year ago.


----------



## Curiosity

Not many - I've never encountered another person of my age group who does.


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## violadude

I'm almost 20, I think I still count as a young person.


----------



## Aristotle

i'm seventeen and i guess there is only 100 people that like classical music/play classical pieces , in city i live in.
population is around 5000000 over here ,so:
100/5000000 ~ 1 in 50000


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## samurai

Aristotle said:


> i'm seventeen and i guess there is only 100 people that like classical music/play classical pieces , in city i live in.
> population is around 5000000 over here ,so:
> 100/5000000 ~ 1 in 50000


@Aristotle, How did you arrive at that figure  Is it just a "guesstimate" or do you have something more concrete to base it on? Just wondering.


----------



## cowboylogger

I am 19 I been lesson to classical music sine I was 6 years old


----------



## Kopachris

I just turned 18 this summer--I've been listening to classical music (I think) since I was 13.


----------



## SuckerForWaltzes

I'm 24, not that young anymore, but still only listened to classical starting when I was about 15. I went through that little "trying to be popular by listening to what everyone else was listening to" phase in about 7th grade, but then realized I just didn't like it as much as classical. But even now, even being a graduate student in history/archaeology, I'm still the only one I know who only listens to classical music . . .


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## Guest

*@sucker.............* But where did you first come into contact with classical was it in your home???


----------



## Fju

Recently I started listen to the classical music and I'm 16. I don't have any music background and I didn't listen any music. Before I attempted music like gothic, metal etc. but it didn't work.


----------



## SuckerForWaltzes

@ Andante:

It's difficult to remember exactly, since I was probably very young (like 5 years old or younger), but I suppose my first contact with classical music was probably at home at some point. My older sister played violin, and my dad was a high school band teacher, so music was always around. I'd say I was raised listening to mainly folk though, and really discovered my true love for classical by myself through NPR and playing my cello.


----------



## Guest

SuckerForWaltzes said:


> @ Andante:
> 
> really discovered my true love for classical by myself through NPR and playing my cello.


What is the NPR?? and you took to Cello before trying classical? what music were you into at that stage (for Cello)


----------



## hawk

NPR = National Public Radio


----------



## SuckerForWaltzes

Thank you hawk for explaining NPR.

@ Andante

Well, I'd say I didn't really have any music preferences when I started playing cello, since I was in the third grade (about 7 for me), and that's pretty young to really start listening to a certain genre, let alone buying music (at that time tapes, not CDs). When you get to third grade, that's the time when music programs start. I initially wanted to play violin, since that's what my friend and sister were playing, but my parents convinced me to choose cello because it wasn't as popular (and my dad didn't want two violins in the house!). So, overall, I would say I was somewhat introduced to classical through my parents playing it on the radio every once in a while, combined with folk music, and then when I decided to start playing cello, that's when my classical music interest really took off.


----------



## Guest

Do you play in a St Qt, that would be the ultimate IMO much better than an Orch.


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## SuckerForWaltzes

I did play in a string quartet for a semester in college and had a blast. But I wouldn't say I like one more than the other. Unfortunately I don't really get to play much right now, with graduate school and all. But if I had a bit more time, I'd try to find a string quartet rather than a full symphony.


----------



## Guest

No room for mistakes in a quartet and the intimacy compared to an Orch is IMO much preferred


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## Albert7

I'm in my late 30's and have been sticking it out with classical music since the age of 7. I do enjoy other forms of music like hip hop and rock and jazz as well.


----------



## hpowders

About 0.00375%


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

hpowders said:


> About 0.00375%


Ahem, yes, that would be me.


----------



## Morimur

How many young people listen to classical? Not many. They're too busy screwing and killing each other.


----------



## ToneDeaf&Senile

Too few. I had hoped that with so much classical music available at YouTube these days, more folk of all ages would become curious, expose themselves to it, and some at least would enjoy it enough to eventually become converts. This doesn't seem to have occurred, not to any significant extent. Not yet at any rate. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## mtmailey

Most young people listen to popular music like hip hop/rap,pop & so on.Some kids listen to hip hop/rap because they want to belong to that group.Other are done in by peer pressure.When i was younger hip hop rap was not as popular like it is now.


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## MoonlightSonata

hpowders said:


> About 0.00375%


...so about 70,000 then. I feel so special now.


----------



## Schubussy

I was looking at this site which creates the 'quintessential' profile of fans of specific things based on UK gov surveys. Great site to browse to kill some time by the way. Anyway I naturally started searching for classical composers, and the results are pretty interesting. A ton young people say they like Beethoven & Debussy (albeit apparently from the opposite sides of the political spectrum), but Mahler is almost entirely old people (and myself). Make of that what you will.

https://yougov.co.uk/profiler#/


----------



## Albert7

Proof that young people are still into classical music and not a lost cause.

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/articles/2014/10/16/classical-music-dying.html


----------



## musicrom

Schubussy said:


> I was looking at this site which creates the 'quintessential' profile of fans of specific things based on UK gov surveys. Great site to browse to kill some time by the way. Anyway I naturally started searching for classical composers, and the results are pretty interesting. A ton young people say they like Beethoven & Debussy (albeit apparently from the opposite sides of the political spectrum), but Mahler is almost entirely old people (and myself). Make of that what you will.
> 
> https://yougov.co.uk/profiler#/


Wow, this is amazing! Apparently, fans of Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov really like pecan pie. I do too!


----------



## ahammel

Schubussy said:


> I was looking at this site which creates the 'quintessential' profile of fans of specific things based on UK gov surveys. Great site to browse to kill some time by the way. Anyway I naturally started searching for classical composers, and the results are pretty interesting. A ton young people say they like Beethoven & Debussy (albeit apparently from the opposite sides of the political spectrum), but Mahler is almost entirely old people (and myself). Make of that what you will.
> 
> https://yougov.co.uk/profiler#/


Fascinating site. Thanks for the link! It's a pitty there's no profile for classical music fans in general.

The profiles I looked at for composers were interesting. 60+and 18-25 were consistently the biggest age demographics. Perhaps YouTube is causing a resurgence of interest?

I suppose instead of asking what we can do to get young people interested in CM, we should be asking what we can do to get boomers into it.


----------



## ahammel

The 60+crowd is by far the last likely to claim an interest in music in general, interestingly.


----------



## hpowders

An impossible % to ascertain. Listening to Classical Music is not PC, so for most age groups, except perhaps senior citizens, folks who listen to it would be embarrassed to admit it and simply say they like whatever mainstream music is acceptable that wouldn't elicit a surprised frown.


----------



## science

One of my favorite things about being a classical music fan is that I still count as a young guy.


----------



## Bulldog

ahammel said:


> The 60+crowd is by far the last likely to claim an interest in music in general, interestingly.


Good hearing is one of the first things to go.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I searched George Orwell on that site, does anyone find it ironic that his fans tend to be right wing?


----------



## starthrower

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I searched George Orwell on that site, does anyone find it ironic that his fans tend to be right wing?


Not really. The mistrust of authority/government, and fear of the future/change is more prevalent among right wingers.


----------



## science

starthrower said:


> Not really. The mistrust of authority/government, and fear of the future/change is more prevalent among right wingers.


Also, almost no one can imagine themselves as a threat to other people's freedom.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

starthrower said:


> Not really. The mistrust of authority/government, and fear of the future/change is more prevalent among right wingers.


In Australia, right wingers _love_ the government (when they are right wing also) despite things like misinformation, broken promises and very insulting comments that they might make!


----------



## ahammel

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I searched George Orwell on that site, does anyone find it ironic that his fans tend to be right wing?


And old. His two most famous novels are anti-Communist, which would appeal to your 60+ Tory, I imagine.

They're probably not thinking of Homage to Catalonia or Down and Out in Paris and London.


----------



## starthrower

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> In Australia, right wingers _love_ the government (when they are right wing also) despite things like misinformation, broken promises and very insulting comments that they might make!


This is a generalization, but in America, the right wingers are the guns & ammo, country music listening crowd, who will punch you in the face for being an atheist/gay/Obama sympathizer. The left wingers are the more liberal, faith in government, public radio listeners. And the media pundits love to fan the flames. It's a good money making spectacle.


----------



## Albert7

I have a suspicion that a lot of young folks here don't admit to listen to classical music because it seems to be elitist. However, I disagree and with recent efforts of orchestras and classical music radio stations to become a lot more public friendly, listening to classical music can become part of everyday activity and not just "special" occasions.


----------



## starthrower

I wish classical radio would have more balls and feature more contemporary music. Playing the greats and warhorses is fine, but there needs to be a bit more balance and exposure for other music.


----------



## Albert7

starthrower said:


> I wish classical radio would have more balls and feature more contemporary music. Playing the greats and warhorses is fine, but there needs to be a bit more balance and exposure for other music.


I agree with you there and that is the main reason for iTunes being so awesome. Exploring new composers that I never heard of.


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## ahammel

albertfallickwang said:


> I have a suspicion that a lot of young folks here don't admit to listen to classical music because it seems to be elitist.


I've not yet come up with a good way to answer the question "what kind of music do you listen to?" without sounding like a prat.


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## science

ahammel said:


> I've not yet come up with a good way to answer the question "what kind of music do you listen to?" without sounding like a prat.


I say something like, "All kinds of music but usually classical because that's my favorite," and it never seems to go over badly.


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## ahammel

science said:


> I say something like, "All kinds of music but usually classical because that's my favorite," and it never seems to go over badly.


Not bad, but it wouldn't be true in my case.


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## science

ahammel said:


> Not bad, but it wouldn't be true in my case.


What is the truth?


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## ahammel

science said:


> What is the truth?


I listen to classical music almost exclusively. Sometimes I switch to jazz, but that's even worse


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ahammel said:


> And old. His two most famous novels are anti-Communist, which would appeal to your 60+ Tory, I imagine.
> 
> They're probably not thinking of Homage to Catalonia or Down and Out in Paris and London.


Ummm how is 1984 anti-Communist? To me it seems more relatable to the NSA and Rupert Murdoch and the huge amounts of biased information we are presented with in the media.......

I know that Animal Farm is a criticism of the way communism was handled in Russia and how it was manipulated to put ultimate power with whoever was on top, but I always thought everyone knew Orwell was anti-authoritarian and a leftist, not an anti-communist.....


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## ahammel

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Ummm how is 1984 anti-Communist? To me it seems more relatable to the NSA and Rupert Murdoch and the huge amounts of biased information we are presented with in the media.......


 It's a pretty direct criticism of Stalin's cult of personality and censorship policies (as well as the use of language in the press, among other things).



> I know that Animal Farm is a criticism of the way communism was handled in Russia and how it was manipulated to put ultimate power with whoever was on top, but I always thought everyone knew Orwell was anti-authoritarian and a leftist, not an anti-communist.....


He was anti-Stalin, certainly:



> Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it.


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## Cosmos

I've been listening since I was...13/14, and I'm 20 now.

Though I'd say music classes in grammar school is a great idea. Here in the US, they've been cutting the arts out in favor for the sciences and literature. Of course they're important, but why can't there be some time for the arts? My interest for classical grew out of playing the xylophone and watching Disney's Fantasia.


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## Albert7

Cosmos said:


> I've been listening since I was...13/14, and I'm 20 now.
> 
> Though I'd say music classes in grammar school is a great idea. Here in the US, they've been cutting the arts out in favor for the sciences and literature. Of course they're important, but why can't there be some time for the arts? My interest for classical grew out of playing the xylophone and watching Disney's Fantasia.


Wow, I remember watching Fantasia as a kid too. Not sure whether listening to Dukas inspired me to listen to more classical music however. I think the basis for most of my exposure was my dad's record collection.


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## starthrower

Cosmos said:


> I've been listening since I was...13/14, and I'm 20 now.
> 
> Though I'd say music classes in grammar school is a great idea. Here in the US, they've been cutting the arts out in favor for the sciences and literature. Of course they're important, but why can't there be some time for the arts? My interest for classical grew out of playing the xylophone and watching Disney's Fantasia.


I bet they don't cut the budgets for football. Gotta love the good ol' USA!


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## MoonlightSonata

Cosmos said:


> I've been listening since I was...13/14, and I'm 20 now.
> 
> Though I'd say music classes in grammar school is a great idea. Here in the US, they've been cutting the arts out in favor for the sciences and literature. Of course they're important, but why can't there be some time for the arts? My interest for classical grew out of playing the xylophone and watching Disney's Fantasia.





albertfallickwang said:


> Wow, I remember watching Fantasia as a kid too. Not sure whether listening to Dukas inspired me to listen to more classical music however. I think the basis for most of my exposure was my dad's record collection.


Fantasia seems to be quite popular in music education. At music class at school (which in my case largely consists of being told to shut myself in a practise room and compose or practise whatever I want  ) we watched this as well. People seemed most amused by the sound of the bassoon.


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## hpowders

They get introduced to it with Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf; Britten's Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra.

When I was around 6, my folks bought me a series of 78's called "Rusty in Orchestraville"; a nice introduction to the instruments of the orchestra for young kids.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ahammel said:


> It's a pretty direct criticism of Stalin's cult of personality and censorship policies (as well as the use of language in the press, among other things).


Yes and the importance of the book (and the scary thing about it) is that it's relatable to the world of today as much as it was on Stalin. We can draw parallels between the way any extreme ideology works upon examination of things like censorship and power as seen in the book, I don't doubt you know that though.


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## Morimur

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Yes and the importance of the book (and the scary thing about it) is that it's relatable to the world of today as much as it was on Stalin. We can draw parallels between the way any extreme ideology works upon examination of things like censorship and power as seen in the book, I don't doubt you know that though.


It's interesting: Communism doesn't work because people are willingly and easily corrupted by power and like to own ****. Capitalism has proved, at least in my eyes, to be no better because it excessively caters to human nature, which is morally bankrupt, destructive and therefore suicidal.

_Definition of insanity: Human beings._


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## ahammel

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Yes and the importance of the book (and the scary thing about it) is that it's relatable to the world of today as much as it was on Stalin. We can draw parallels between the way any extreme ideology works upon examination of things like censorship and power as seen in the book, I don't doubt you know that though.


I have to say that I don't think any modern liberal democracy is in danger of suddenly turning into a USSR-style totalitarian dictatorship; but some of the ideas about language and how to use it to talk about things without thinking about what they mean are as relevant as ever they were.

I should read it again some time. Great book.


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## hpowders

OP: Probably close to the same number of young people who actually read real life books, one can hold in ones' hands.


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## Albert7

hpowders said:


> OP: Probably close to the same number of young people who actually read real life books, one can hold in ones' hands.


E-books I guess don't count?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Morimur said:


> It's interesting: Communism doesn't work because people are willingly and easily corrupted by power and like to own ****. Capitalism has proved, at least in my eyes, to be no better because it excessively caters to human nature, which is morally bankrupt, destructive and therefore suicidal.
> 
> _Definition of insanity: Human beings._


My biggest problem with capitalism is how it's been skewed to exploit people (remember those factories in places like China whose workers suffer overlong work ours and exposure to dangerous material for barely any pay) and our environment for the benefit of the rich. Communism as it has been played out in real life has been a manipulation of Marxist theory to put some power hungry jerk on top. One thing interesting about how "Communist" totalitarian leaders have gained power is their eradication of religion, they effectively are just getting rid of competition so that citizens of the new totalitarian state should have complete faith in their dictator!

Capitalism is very subtle, and it poses itself as a desirable system becuase it plays with people's materialistic _wants_ as sort of like a bribe to accept that "it's working." In first world countries many of the real problems it has caused for huge populations in other countries and huge changes in our environment resulting in climate change. But for people who are in charge of companies which provide us with information/news, the types of people who are hired and the type of news which is presented _is_ biased (Fox News, anyone?) towards certain viewpoints and certain topics that ultimately ensure that the middle class and up of consumers are happy with the shape the world is in for them and can continue being consumers, vote for the right people at the right time and essentially keep the people who are effectively plutocrats running the country and the problems _out_ (or at the very least, ignored).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

hpowders said:


> OP: Probably close to the same number of young people who actually read real life books, one can hold in ones' hands.


There _are_ young bibliomaniacs (but they often read the pop culture stuff) and I have a feeling there are more of them than young classical music listeners!


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## MoonlightSonata

hpowders said:


> OP: Probably close to the same number of young people who actually read real life books, one can hold in ones' hands.


It would be interesting to see how much these correlated. Twice I have participated in the national finals of the international "Kids' Literature Quiz", as I believe it is called. The first year, three of the four people in my team were interested in classical music. This year, there were two of us.
Perhaps the two areas attract similar people?


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## hpowders

MoonlightSonata said:


> It would be interesting to see how much these correlated. Twice I have participated in the national finals of the international "Kids' Literature Quiz", as I believe it is called. The first year, three of the four people in my team were interested in classical music. This year, there were two of us.
> Perhaps the two areas attract similar people?


I would think so.

When you are holding that big heavy book, don't ever let them see you sweat.


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## hpowders

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> There _are_ young bibliomaniacs (but they often read the pop culture stuff) and I have a feeling there are more of them than young classical music listeners!


There's more of everything than classical music lovers, except for cockroaches.


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## MoonlightSonata

hpowders said:


> I would think so.
> 
> When you are holding that big heavy book, don't ever let them see you sweat.


We tried to scare the other teams into submission this year. I displayed my braces at every opportunity, and one of the others wore her glasses for exactly the second time in the year she'd had them.
It didn't work though, we'd been studying the classics and the questions were largely about modern picture books


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## DeepR

I'm 33 but I've always liked classical music one way or another, starting with only the most famous pieces. I didn't really start exploring cm until mid 20s.


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## hpowders

MoonlightSonata said:


> We tried to scare the other teams into submission this year. I displayed my braces at every opportunity, and one of the others wore her glasses for exactly the second time in the year she'd had them.
> It didn't work though, we'd been studying the classics and the questions were largely about modern picture books


Ahhhh.....braces! No wonder your fingers look so straight!!


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## hpowders

People here are only thirty freakin' three?? There ought to be a law!!


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## science

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> My biggest problem with capitalism is how it's been skewed to exploit people (remember those factories in places like China whose workers suffer overlong work ours and exposure to dangerous material for barely any pay) and our environment for the benefit of the rich. Communism as it has been played out in real life has been a manipulation of Marxist theory to put some power hungry jerk on top. One thing interesting about how "Communist" totalitarian leaders have gained power is their eradication of religion, they effectively are just getting rid of competition so that citizens of the new totalitarian state should have complete faith in their dictator!
> 
> Capitalism is very subtle, and it poses itself as a desirable system becuase it plays with people's materialistic _wants_ as sort of like a bribe to accept that "it's working." In first world countries many of the real problems it has caused for huge populations in other countries and huge changes in our environment resulting in climate change. But for people who are in charge of companies which provide us with information/news, the types of people who are hired and the type of news which is presented _is_ biased (Fox News, anyone?) towards certain viewpoints and certain topics that ultimately ensure that the middle class and up of consumers are happy with the shape the world is in for them and can continue being consumers, vote for the right people at the right time and essentially keep the people who are effectively plutocrats running the country and the problems _out_ (or at the very least, ignored).


Most of the workers in China are much better off now than they ever were under the old communist system, let alone under the even older traditional society.

Capitalism works slowly and painfully but it works, and nothing else does.

What I worry about most is that we are turning away from capitalism to plutocracy, essentially returning to the kind of government that has existed for most of world history, in which the government extracts wealth from the workers and passes it around to well-connected elite. We may already have lost the battle: our children might be the equivalent of peasants, and if we try to do anything about it.... Well, let's say, I'm too scared to try to do anything about it. I've surrendered and just hope that I manage to live out my time without offending the state. Freedom was nice while it lasted, for those who really had it. And we probably have at least a couple decades left of feeling free.

And all this is being and has been done in the name of ideals like freedom. So Orwell was right. If he were writing in the 2010s instead of the 1940s, he'd have written about Ingcap or Inglib.

I wonder what the music is that is about all this?


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## MoonlightSonata

hpowders said:


> Ahhhh.....braces! No wonder your fingers look so straight!!


But they were on my teeth, not my fingers...
Thankfully, they're gone now anyway (none of the emoticons express the joy I feel)


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## Chronochromie

hpowders said:


> OP: Probably close to the same number of young people who actually read real life books, one can hold in ones' hands.


Not in my experience. Over here reading is way more common than listening to classical, which is seen as odd and/or uncool.


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## Morimur

science said:


> Most of the workers in China are much better off now than they ever were under the old communist system, let alone under the even older traditional society.
> 
> Capitalism works slowly and painfully but it works, and nothing else does.
> 
> What I worry about most is that we are turning away from capitalism to plutocracy, essentially returning to the kind of government that has existed for most of world history, in which the government extracts wealth from the workers and passes it around to well-connected elite. We may already have lost the battle: our children might be the equivalent of peasants, and if we try to do anything about it.... Well, let's say, I'm too scared to try to do anything about it. I've surrendered and just hope that I manage to live out my time without offending the state. Freedom was nice while it lasted, for those who really had it. And we probably have at least a couple decades left of feeling free.
> 
> And all this is being and has been done in the name of ideals like freedom. So Orwell was right. If he were writing in the 2010s instead of the 1940s, he'd have written about Ingcap or Inglib.
> 
> I wonder what the music is that is about all this?


So, in the end we both arrive at the conclusion that no man-made system works because, though well meaning, it always degenerates into tyranny. We finally agree on something.


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## KenOC

Morimur said:


> So, in the end we both arrive at the conclusion that no man-made system works because, though well meaning, it always degenerates into tyranny. We finally agree on something.


At least with the system used by the United States, if it degenerates, we know whose fault it is.


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## Morimur

KenOC said:


> At least with the system used by the United States, if it degenerates, we know whose fault it is.


Oh yeah, Chuck Colson went to prison and Nixon went . . . home. We sure know how to hold our leaders accountable.


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## hpowders

Morimur said:


> Oh yeah, Chuck Colson went to prison and Nixon went . . . home. We sure know how to hold our leaders accountable.


And what a home! I walked the beach in San Clemente California and saw it.

No young people on that beach were listening to classical music on their portable radios by the way.


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## hpowders

Der Leiermann said:


> Not in my experience. Over here reading is way more common than listening to classical, which is seen as odd and/or uncool.


Well, one sees fewer books and more tablets these days.

I will never buy one of those Kindle tablets. I ADORE the feel of a real book in my hands and the tactile stimulation of being able to turn real pages.


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## KenOC

Morimur said:


> Oh yeah, Chuck Colson went to prison and Nixon went . . . home. We sure know how to hold our leaders accountable.


My point exactly. You said it perfectly. Just look in the mirror.


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## Kibbles Croquettes

hpowders said:


> Well, one sees fewer books and more tablets these days.
> 
> I will never buy one of those Kindle tablets. I ADORE the feel of a real book in my hands and the tactile stimulation of being able to turn real pages.


I like the smell of books.

A smell module shouldn't be too hard to incorporate in to a kindle.


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## science

Morimur said:


> So, in the end we both arrive at the conclusion that no man-made system works because, though well meaning, it always degenerates into tyranny. We finally agree on something.


Well, maybe all man-made tyrannies eventually collapse too. Hope is not dead, though I have little of it myself.

Which is one reason I'm glad I have music. Bread and circuses will do just fine for me!


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## Albert7

Show of hands... how many young people here listen specifically to baroque music?


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## Chronochromie

hpowders said:


> Well, one sees fewer books and more tablets these days.
> 
> I will never buy one of those Kindle tablets. I ADORE the feel of a real book in my hands and the tactile stimulation of being able to turn real pages.


The tablet thing is true, but reading isn't as uncommon as you think.
And I too prefer real books to eBooks.


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## Kibbles Croquettes

I once worked as a librarian. That cured me of excessively sentimental feelings towards books.


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## Kopachris

In answer to the OP: at last count, there are 24 of us. We have a social group.


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## Albert7

Der Leiermann said:


> The tablet thing is true, but reading isn't as uncommon as you think.
> And I too prefer real books to eBooks.


I like both options but still find it easier to read an actual book.


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## Chronochromie

Kopachris said:


> In answer to the OP: at last count, there are 24 of us. We have a social group.


Very active obviously.


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## Declined

I'm 19 and listen to Classical music.


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## MoonlightSonata

Kopachris said:


> In answer to the OP: at last count, there are 24 of us. We have a social group.


25 now I've joined.


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## soundoftritones

I'm 18 years old and I've had a growing interest in Classical music since I was 8 years old - when I first started my piano lessons. From there, I suppose my interest waxed and waned with the troubles some lessons gave me, but now, I appreciate and see it as more than just background music in classy restaurants. It's my absolute favourite genre (I don't think it's correct to categorize Classical music as thus, but for the sake of brevity... ), and I'm extremely grateful to have been exposed to it at a relatively young age.


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## SeptimalTritone

soundoftritones said:


> I'm 18 years old and I've had a growing interest in Classical music since I was 8 years old - when I first started my piano lessons. From there, I suppose my interest waxed and waned with the troubles some lessons gave me, but now, I appreciate and see it as more than just background music in classy restaurants. It's my absolute favourite genre (I don't think it's correct to categorize Classical music as thus, but for the sake of brevity... ), and I'm extremely grateful to have been exposed to it at a relatively young age.


I like your name. A lot 

I'm 20 years old, and I play violin and viola. Welcome to TalkClassical!


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## MoonlightSonata

soundoftritones said:


> I'm 18 years old and I've had a growing interest in Classical music since I was 8 years old - when I first started my piano lessons. From there, I suppose my interest waxed and waned with the troubles some lessons gave me, but now, I appreciate and see it as more than just background music in classy restaurants. It's my absolute favourite genre (I don't think it's correct to categorize Classical music as thus, but for the sake of brevity... ), and I'm extremely grateful to have been exposed to it at a relatively young age.


Piano lessons introduced me to music as well, and at about the same age. Hooray for piano lessons!


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## soundoftritones

Haha, thank you for the warm welcome and compliment! 
I like your username very much as well


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## soundoftritones

SeptimalTritone said:


> I like your name. A lot
> 
> I'm 20 years old, and I play violin and viola. Welcome to TalkClassical!


Haha, thank you for the warm welcome and compliment! 
I like your username very much as well


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## MoonlightSonata

soundoftritones said:


> Haha, thank you for the warm welcome and compliment!
> I like your username very much as well


Tritones are invading TC! :lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

soundoftritones said:


> I'm 18 years old and I've had a growing interest in Classical music since I was 8 years old - when I first started my piano lessons. From there, I suppose my interest waxed and waned with the troubles some lessons gave me, but now, I appreciate and see it as more than just background music in classy restaurants. It's my absolute favourite genre (I don't think it's correct to categorize Classical music as thus, but for the sake of brevity... ), and I'm extremely grateful to have been exposed to it at a relatively young age.


You are extremely cool. 
Glad to have you here at TC!


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## science

MoonlightSonata said:


> Tritones are invading TC! :lol:


Don't worry. A couple steps in contrary motion will resolve them. We can take those steps whenever we want.


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## DeepR

Define "young". I'm 33 and I've always liked classical music, but didn't start seriously exploring it until I was old.


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## hpowders

Tritones? 

I moved to Florida specifically to avoid 'em.


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## MoonlightSonata

I can't complain though, there are lots of minor ninths in the Moonlight Sonata.


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## spokanedaniel

My mom liked classical music, so I've listened to it since I was a baby. I cannot remember a time when I didn't enjoy it. Throughout my school years, until I reached college I only ever knew one person who said he liked it when I had it on the phonograph. I felt as though I was an oddity in enjoying classical music at that age.


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## trazom

trazom said:


> Well, I'm 19 and have been listening to it for about 6 years now. It started with me taking flute lessons and then switching over to piano, which I'm better at, even though it's easier to sight-read with the flute.


ahhcck. I hate seeing my old posts. They should stay in the past lost in cyberspace where they belong and I don't have to face the writing voice of my old self.


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## MoonlightSonata

trazom said:


> ahhcck. I hate seeing my old posts. They should stay in the past lost in cyberspace where they belong and I don't have to face the writing voice of my old self.


At least your old self didn't hate all music from after 1930. Not as much as mine, at least. I shudder at the memory and hope that nobody finds my first few posts


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

deleted this post for my own safety


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## Richannes Wrahms

You know you are all just tempting evil spirits like me to unearth those little treasures hidden in the archives of the forum, don't you?


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