# Top 10 Operas Set In England



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Interesting article: Top 10 Operas Set In England

10. Martha (Flotow)
9. Sweeney Todd (Sondheim)
8. The Mines of Sulphur (Bennett)
7. The Tudor Queens Trilogy (Donizetti)
6. The Rake's Progress (Stravinsky)
5. I Puritani (Bellini)
4. Wuthering Heights (Herrmann)
3. H.M.S. Pinafore (Sullivan)
2. Falstaff (Verdi)
1. The Turn of the Screw (Britten)

What do you think? Did they leave some good ones out?

I am very pleased to see Martha made the list. Martha and the Tudor Queens are among my favorite operas.

Love the Tudor Queens Trilogy--hey can we consider that one whole like we do with Wagner's Ring? If so, that makes the Tudor Queens Trilogy the second largest opera series at 7 disks (half of the Rings typical 14 disks). But what is the historically correct order to listen to the Tudor Queens?

Saw Sweeney Todd live at the Michigan Opera Theater in the 1980s, but it is not an opera I pursue now (a bit creepy).

Of the remainder, I only know I Puritani, and not very well. I enjoyed the Florez in it on DVD, but have not spent much time with it.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Donizetti: Rosmonda d'lnghilterra is missing.......:scold:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Donizetti: Rosmonda d'lnghilterra is missing.......:scold:


I have an idea. Once this thead has a lot of posts of missing operas, we can have a new thread to determine TC's top ten operas set in England!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I have an idea. Once this thead has a lot of posts of missing operas, we can have a new thread to determine TC's top ten operas set in England!


But please, no poll Fritz.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> But please, no poll Fritz.


Well, okay. A knockdown survival thread, maybe?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Well, okay. A knockdown survival thread, maybe?


Use "knockout"; it's more definitive.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> But what is the historically correct order to listen to the Tudor Queens?


Here is the answer according to the Wikipedia pages for the tree queen operas:

Anna Bolena: 1536

Maria Stuarda: 1587

Roberto Devereux: 1601

Now I have to order them that way on my player!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Well, okay. A knockdown survival thread, maybe?


Frankly TC is littered with enough of these tiresome games.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I don't know who on earth placed 'The Turn of the Screw' above Falstaff. Falstaff is one of the very greatest operas ever written which is more than can be said for Britten's.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

The Mines of Sulphur? (Must look that one up)


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

no mention of Norma?


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

Even though I love Britten, I'm not sure I would put The Turn of The Screw above Falstaff, either. Not to mention any number of other operas by Britten, chiefly among them Peter Grimes or A Midsummer Night's Dream. Here is a short list of some other operas set in the England:

The Rake's Progress
Il castello di Kenilworth
Elisabetta, regina d'Inghilterra
Emilia di Liverpool
Ivanhoe
King Arthur
Rosmonda d'Inghilterra
Die Schweigsame Frau
The Merry Wives of Windsor (if you consider it opera)
Aroldo
Owen Wingrave
Gloriana
...

If we include Scotland, then we get to add the likes of:
Lucia di Lammermoor
Le Joie Fille de Perth
Macbeth
La Donna del Lago
Ariodante


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> no mention of Norma?


Even though it's about druids, often associated with pre-Roman England, Scotland and Wales, Norma is set in Gaul. Or so I believe.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

This is my short list of favorites:

1.- Lulu (Berg)
2.- The Turn of the Screw (Britten)
3.- I puritani (Bellini)
4.- Peter Grimes (Britten)
5.- Maria Stuarda (Donizetti)
6.- Anna Bolena (Donizetti)
7.- Falstaff (Verdi)
8.- Der Templer und die Jüdin (Marschner)
9.- Gawain (Birtwistle)
10.- Merlin (Albeniz)


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

_The Turn of the Screw_ deserves a high ranking - Britten's music captured the very essence of rural isolation in Eastern England just as it did in _Curlew River_.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

_Donizett_i: Emilia di Liverpool and _Pacini_: Maria regina d'Inghilterra are also highly underrated.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

No mention of Tristan und Isolde!!!!

It is set in Cornwall.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I guess we are considering Cornwall to be one of the Celtic Nations, rather than England. :devil:


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

The Beggars Opera and Die Dreigroschenoper are set in London.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Then we have Britten's Gloriana:


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Sloe said:


> No mention of Tristan und Isolde!!!!
> 
> It is set in Cornwall.





schigolch said:


> I guess we are considering Cornwall to be one of the Celtic Nations, rather than England. :devil:


I don't know that Wagner places it in time specifically, but the legend of Tristan is set in the 6th century (when the historical King Mark of Cornwall lived). England was not a thing at that time.

Even if one takes "England" to mean the land rather than the nation, only one act out of three (plus the last few pages of the first act) is set in what is now England. The first act is almost entirely at sea, and the third act is in Brittany.


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Then we have Britten's Gloriana:


There is a production of Gloriana at the Teatro Real Madrid next April, Ivor Bolton conducting. I am sorely tempted to go. How often does this one get performed?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Not often:



Title:GlorianaStart date:1 Jan 2016End date:31 Dec 2019 


*From**To* 12Apr2018 24Apr2018 9Teatro Real de MadridGloriana_New production

_


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is a great opera set in England:


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> I don't know that Wagner places it in time specifically, but the legend of Tristan is set in the 6th century (when the historical King Mark of Cornwall lived). England was not a thing at that time.
> 
> Even if one takes "England" to mean the land rather than the nation, only one act out of three (plus the last few pages of the first act) is set in what is now England. The first act is almost entirely at sea, and the third act is in Brittany.


I see it as it is the place that is of interest. There was no such thing as France when Norma takes place but I still consider it set in France. Same for The Ring and Germany.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mercadante: Maria Stuarda regina di Scozia.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Don Fatale said:


> The Mines of Sulphur? (Must look that one up)


I've heard it. Don't bother!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Taplow said:


> Even though I love Britten, I'm not sure I would put The Turn of The Screw above Falstaff, either. Not to mention any number of other operas by Britten, chiefly among them Peter Grimes or A Midsummer Night's Dream. Here is a short list of some other operas set in the England:
> 
> The Rake's Progress
> Il castello di Kenilworth
> ...


A Midsummer Night's Dream takes place in Athens (or a wood on the outskirts of Athens) so wouldn't count in a list of operas set in England. Interestingly one scene in Macbeth does though.

I think we have covered the main operas set in England throughout this thread. It's interesting that most of these operas are either set during the Tudor period or were written by Britten.

N.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

A personal favourite of mine: Boughton's The Immortal Hour.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Several Vaughan Williams operas: _Sir John in Love, Hugh the Drover, Pilgrim's Progress_ (at least, it begins and ends in England).
Holst's _At the Boar's Head._
Lennox Berkeley's _A Dinner Engagement_ has its attractions.
Nowadays we should probably add Joubert's _Jane Eyre_ (2016). (There's also an extremely condensed 70-minute _Jane Eyre_ by Michael Berkeley).

Curious how tastes change. A century ago, Reginald De Koven's _Robin Hood_ (1890) would certainly have featured high on the list--possibly even at the head of it, at least in America. And his _Canterbury Pilgrims_ (1917) would have been mentioned, too.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gvn said:


> Curious how tastes change. A century ago, Reginald De Koven's _Robin Hood_ (1890) would certainly have featured high on the list--possibly even at the head of it, at least in America. And his _Canterbury Pilgrims_ (1917) would have been mentioned, too.


De Koven's operas must have had a rather transient success. I can barely remember reading of the composer's existence - the name is familiar - the operas are not mentioned in the _Victor Book of the Opera_ (1929) or in Upton's _The Standard Operas_ (1912), and i'm unaware of singers of the time recording anything from them. Perhaps they exemplify not so much significant changes in taste as simply the fact that art of little distinction is often successful in the moment for various reasons. On the other hand, works occasionally get lost in the shuffle and present good material for revival. Can you tell us anything about De Koven's music?


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> De Koven's operas must have had a rather transient success. I can barely remember reading of the composer's existence - the name is familiar - the operas are not mentioned in the _Victor Book of the Opera_ (1929) or in Upton's _The Standard Operas_ (1912), and i'm unaware of singers of the time recording anything from them. Perhaps they exemplify not so much significant changes in taste as simply the fact that art of little distinction is often successful in the moment for various reasons. On the other hand, works occasionally get lost in the shuffle and present good material for revival. Can you tell us anything about De Koven's music?


Yes, that's my point: De Koven's operas did have a very transient success and fell precipitously, not only from favor, but even from human memory. In fairness, _Robin Hood_ was really more operetta than opera, so one might not expect it to appear in the "serious" opera books of the period. I do think I saw it in some editions of the _Victor Book of the Opera_ (though it certainly isn't in others), and it did appear, e.g., in Dolores Bacon's _Operas That Every Child Should Know_ (1913) alongside other standard repertoire of the period, either still popular (_Fidelio,_ _Magic Flute,_ _Rigoletto,_ _Trovatore,_ _Aida_) or now faded (_Bohemian Girl,_ _Martha,_ Meyerbeer's _Prophet_). Perhaps that was about the level of its vogue. Its main hits ("O promise me," the Armorer's Song, etc.) were either still being recorded or, at least, still being played when I was young, but the work itself was long gone. There's a modern recording by the Ohio Light Opera on Albany Records, but I've never felt any impulse to investigate it.

De Koven's more serious _Canterbury Pilgrims_ triumphed _very_ briefly at the Met and was even canonized in the rarified realms of Kobbé's _Complete Opera Book!_


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

gvn said:


> Yes, that's my point: De Koven's operas did have a very transient success and fell precipitously, not only from favor, but even from human memory. In fairness, _Robin Hood_ was really more operetta than opera, so one might not expect it to appear in the "serious" opera books of the period. I do think I saw it in some editions of the _Victor Book of the Opera_ (though it certainly isn't in others), and it did appear, e.g., in Dolores Bacon's _Operas That Every Child Should Know_ (1913) alongside other standard repertoire of the period, either still popular (_Fidelio,_ _Magic Flute,_ _Rigoletto,_ _Trovatore,_ _Aida_) or now faded (_Bohemian Girl,_ _Martha,_ Meyerbeer's _Prophet_). Perhaps that was about the level of its vogue. Its main hits ("O promise me," the Armorer's Song, etc.) were either still being recorded or, at least, still being played when I was young, but the work itself was long gone. There's a modern recording by the Ohio Light Opera on Albany Records, but I've never felt any impulse to investigate it.
> 
> De Koven's more serious _Canterbury Pilgrims_ triumphed _very_ briefly at the Met and was even canonized in the rarified realms of Kobbé's _Complete Opera Book!_


Edward German's *Merrie England*, which I suppose one would term light opera, has suffered a similar fate. First staged in 1903, it was once very popular, certainly with amateur groups, but fell out of fashion after the Coronation year of 1953. It was the last operetta my father conducted before his untimely death in 1970 at the age of 47. Even then it was already rarely performed and the only reason it was staged was that it had been the first ever production by the Darlington Operatic Society, of which my father was musical director, twenty-five years earlier. It has to be said, it now seems rather twee and old fashioned. The music owes a lot to Gilbert and Sullivan, without their wit.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

SixFootScowl said:


> Interesting article: Top 10 Operas Set In England
> 
> 10. Martha (Flotow)
> 9. Sweeney Todd (Sondheim)
> ...





Tsaraslondon said:


> Edward German's *Merrie England*, which I suppose one would term light opera, has suffered a similar fate. First staged in 1903, it was once very popular, certainly with amateur groups, but fell out of fashion after the Coronation year of 1953. It was the last operetta my father conducted before his untimely death in 1970 at the age of 47. Even then it was already rarely performed and the only reason it was staged was that it had been the first ever production by the Darlington Operatic Society, of which my father was musical director, twenty-five years earlier. It has to be said, it now seems rather *twee and old fashioned. The music owes a lot to Gilbert and Sullivan, without their wit.*


Well, if HMS Pinafore is eligible, that means that *The Pirates of Penzance* qualifies as well. Pirates is a far better written work, and is probably performed more often in the USA these days than Pinafore.

In fact, this makes most of their entire operetta catalog eligible: *The Sorcerer, Patience, Iolanthe, Princess Ida, Ruddigore*, and *Yeoman of the Guard*.

There's also Sullivan's very successful grand opera, *Ivanhoe*. Popular, and rarely revived.


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