# Great Conductors #1: Leonard Bernstein



## Lord Lance

*A new series with no fixed interval. To kick off this tentative series, I've picked one of my all time favorite conductors: *
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LEONARD BERNSTEIN (American - 1918-1990)
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State your favorite recordings!
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_In no particular order:_

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## JACE

A few of my Bernstein favorites:









Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique / NYPO









Ives: Symphonies Nos. 2 & 3 / NYPO









Liszt: Les Preludes; Hungarian Rhapsody No. 1 / NYPO









Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection" / NYPO









Mahler: Symphony No. 9 / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam


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## Lord Lance

JACE said:


> A few of my faves from Lenny:
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> Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique / NYPO
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> Ives: Symphonies Nos. 2 & 3 / NYPO
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> Liszt: Les Preludes / NYPO
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> Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection" / NYPO
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> Mahler: Symphony No. 9 / Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam


Interesting you'd pick his Mahler 2/NYPO over his Mahler 2/LSO. Any particular reason?

Or why not Israel-Mahler 9 over the RCO one?


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## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Interesting you'd pick his Mahler 2/NYPO over his Mahler 2/LSO. Any particular reason?
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> Or why not Israel-Mahler 9 over the RCO one?


The Concertgebouw M9 was the very first Mahler recording that grabbed me. It made me a Mahler convert. It is an extreme, exaggerated reading -- but I still love it, if only because it was my gateway into Mahler's world.

Likewise, the DG NYPO "Resurrection" was the first M2 that I heard, so I guess I "imprinted" on it.

Also, I've never heard those other recordings that you mentioned.


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## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> View attachment 60550


I'd like to get this CD. I've heard nothing but good things about it.


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## Lord Lance

JACE said:


> I'd like to get this CD. I've heard nothing but good things about it.


Or, you could simply go here.

Oh, and don't forget to listen to this.


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## Lord Lance

JACE said:


> The Concertgebouw M9 was the very first Mahler recording that grabbed me. It made me a Mahler convert. It is an extreme, exaggerated reading -- but I still love it, if only because it was my gateway into Mahler's world.
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> Likewise, the DG NYPO "Resurrection" was the first M2 that I heard, so I guess I "imprinted" on it.
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> Also, I've never heard those other recordings that you mentioned.


You haven't heard his Mahler/VPO-LSO/DVD cycle? Watch it on YouTube here.

And the Faust recordings are linked above. For Tchaikovsky, go to Naxos and for his Beethoven/VPO/DVD cycle - enjoy!


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## SixFootScowl

Not much background to be a judge of these things, but my favorite conductor is:









Funny thing is I was just thinking about starting a thread on favorite conductors (dead or alive). Now I don't have to.


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## Itullian

The greatest conductor of the 2nd half of the 20th century imo.
The first half belonging to Furtwangler.


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## Lord Lance

*Hold on*



Florestan said:


> Not much background to be a judge of these things, but my favorite conductor is:
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> Funny thing is I was just thinking about starting a thread on favorite conductors (dead or alive). Now I don't have to.


It is still a primitive idea. Depends on the success of this thread. TC really loves Fricsay's records, doesn't it?


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## elgar's ghost

For my sins, I've got very little by Bernstein the conductor apart from his own output and Mahler. From this meagre collection I would say my favourites are:

Mahler 2 (DG)
Mahler 3 (Sony)
Mahler 6 (DG)
Copland 3 + Quiet City (DG)
Bernstein - On The Town (Sony)


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## Lord Lance

Itullian said:


> The greatest conductor of the 2nd half of the 20th century imo.
> The first half belonging to Furtwangler.


Since go "greatest" exist, the closest one could come is having the highest number of definitive performances. Because of that logic, we have Karajan as the "greatest" conductor.


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## omega

Among the (too) few Bernstein recordings I have listened to so far, here are my favourite:

*Rimsky - Korsakov* _Shérérazade_
New York Philharmonic (Sony)







Certainly the most colourful performance of this work! Wonderful percussions...

*Mahler* _Symphony n°1 "Titan"_
Concertgebouw Amsterdam (DG)







The best Number One ? It is the only Mahler recording by Bernstein I know, and it is splendid.

*Bernstein* _Chisester Psalms_
Israel Philharmonic







Bernstein as composer and conductor

And I forgot the unique:
*Tchaikovsky* _Symphony n°6 "Pathetic"_
New York Philharmonic (DG)


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## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Or, you could simply go here.


Is this the actual performance that was released on the DG CD?

YT, Spotify, etc are all fine for _previewing_ music, but -- if I really like something -- I prefer to have the recording on CD or LP. Primarly, because the sound quality is usually much better. And secondly because I'm enough of an old fart that I prefer for my music collection to consist of tangible objects.


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## DavidA

Now if you really want to hear something life enhancing try Bernstein's Falstaff! Carried on with tremendous brio from the conductor!


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## Itullian

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Since go "greatest" exist, the closest one could come is having the highest number of definitive performances. Because of that logic, we have Karajan as the "greatest" conductor.


Disagree of course.
Who says whats definitive?


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## Lord Lance

Itullian said:


> Disagree of course.
> Who says what's definitive?


Touché.

Quite right. My personal definition.


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## csacks

For those Bernstein enthusiasts like me, DG released a pack of 4 sets with almost all his records. It is a good chance to have access to both his highlights and some of his unknown recorded pieces. I have only 2 of the 4, but it worths. They also have one with Abaddo and 2 with Fricsay. Probably they will release a set of, lets we say, 1800 CDs with von Karajan´s production.
IMHO, Bernstein is a wonderful expression of passion and refinement. Good starting point for a thread.


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## Orfeo

JACE said:


> The Concertgebouw M9 was the very first Mahler recording that grabbed me. It made me a Mahler convert. It is an extreme, exaggerated reading -- but I still love it, if only because it was my gateway into Mahler's world.
> 
> Likewise, the DG NYPO "Resurrection" was the first M2 that I heard, so I guess I "imprinted" on it.
> 
> Also, I've never heard those other recordings that you mentioned.


Bernstein's recording of Mahler's Ninth is likewise my favorite of the symphony. It's an extreme reading, but I would not go as far as to say it's exaggerated. It is deeply personal, with Bernstein pondering his own mortality by that time (he was to pass on a mere two years later). I am convinced of the sincerity of the journey as envisioned in and demonstrated by this special album.

That said, I have deep admiration of many Bernstein's recordings, like, for instances:
Sibelius' Second with the VPO (nothing comes close to the power and profundity of the playing).
Tchaikovsky's Fifth with the NYPO (DG).
Ives' Second with the NYPO (DG).
Copland's orchestral music incl. his Third Symphony (DG).
Franck's Symphony in D (DG).
Mahler's First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, & Eighth (DG).

It is regrettable that he did not record Creston, Weinberg, or even Schmidt or even Glazunov for that matter. But his legacy is nothing short of astonishing.


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## SixFootScowl

Itullian said:


> Disagree of course.
> Who says whats definitive?


The composer would be the only one who could tell us what is a definitive performance, and some composers might not even be able to do that!


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## GreenMamba

I don't have much by Lenny, but I like this a lot, even though his NYP one seems to get more attention.


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## shadowdancer

I have several records with Bernstein. I would like to point one that, in my opinion, is underrated.
This record shows how Bernie could handle different stuff with great passion.


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## Lord Lance

*Replies*



dholling said:


> It is regrettable that he did not record Creston, Weinberg, or even Schmidt or even Glazunov for that matter. But his legacy is nothing short of astonishing.


Bernstein's Columbia's contract allowed him to record whatever he wanted. His albums had that sort of guaranteed mark of quality. That's why Columbia didn't worry what he recorded. That's why his SONY records [Symphonies + Concertos + Orchestral + Misc. Orchestral (Ballets, etc.)] go to a staggering 150 discs. Bernstein recorded *whatever *he wanted. No barrels held. He didn't have die with unfulfilled wishes. If he didn't record Glazunov/Schmidt/Weinberg/Creston, it probably means he _didn't want_ to. Be thankful he didn't push out albums for the sake of it. Low quality cash-ins. Karajan _might _have done that on a few occasions. But with the highest quality of course.



JACE said:


> Is this the actual performance that was released on the DG CD?
> 
> YT, Spotify, etc are all fine for _previewing_ music, but -- if I really like something -- I prefer to have the recording on CD or LP. Primarly, because the sound quality is usually much better. And secondly because I'm enough of an old fart that I prefer for my music collection to consist of tangible objects.


Yes, it is. There is no other Bernstein/Boston Symphony Orchestra/Eine Faust-Symphonie.

YouTube downscales all audio tracks to 192KB/s MP3. If you wish to simply listen to the audio of a YouTube video, more specifically, convert and download it, download this application. Also converts playlists.



Florestan said:


> The composer would be the only one who could tell us what is a definitive performance, and some composers might not even be able to do that!


Several have. Elgar did. So did Sibelius. Not to forget of course, Debussy, Ravel and Stravinsky.



csacks said:


> For those Bernstein enthusiasts like me, DG released a pack of 4 sets with almost all his records. It is a good chance to have access to both his highlights and some of his unknown recorded pieces. I have only 2 of the 4, but it worths. They also have one with Abaddo and 2 with Fricsay. Probably they will release a set of, lets we say, 1800 CDs with von Karajan´s production.
> IMHO, Bernstein is a wonderful expression of passion and refinement. Good starting point for a thread.
> View attachment 60615


Bernstein's has three box sets currently: Symphony Edition; The Album Collection and the one mentioned above.

Karajan has four box sets that encompass his entire studio legacy (labels like Testament round off his live recordings). 
His EMI box sets: Vol. 1 - Orchestral Works; Vol. 2 - Vocal Works
His DG recordings run for 240 discs. 
His Decca box set: 9 disc set

For more information on Bernstein's and Karajan's recordings - Interesting Statistics.



shadowdancer said:


> I have several records with Bernstein. I would like to point one that, in my opinion, is underrated.
> This record shows how Bernie could handle different stuff with great passion.
> View attachment 60632


I will scourge YouTube for that recording. Hopefully, I'll find it. If not, iTunes.


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## Skilmarilion

This live performance of Bernstein leading the Vienna Phil through Sibelius' 7th is, for me, simply remarkable ... it just draws you in at every turn. This was the grand maestro, towards the end of his life, simply on top of his game.


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## nightscape

Bernstein was very hit or miss with me. He is, however, the owner of the hands-down best version of Barber's Adagio for Strings with LA Philharmonic


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## Lord Lance

nightscape said:


> Bernstein was very hit or miss with me. He is, however, the owner of the hands-down best version of Barber's Adagio for Strings with LA Philharmonic


Yes, he is. Have you listened to his Brahms/VPO/DG cycle available on video DVDs and audio CDs?


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## Orfeo

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Bernstein's Columbia's contract allowed him to record whatever he wanted. His albums had that sort of guaranteed mark of quality. That's why Columbia didn't worry what he recorded. That's why his SONY records [Symphonies + Concertos + Orchestral + Misc. Orchestral (Ballets, etc.)] go to a staggering 150 discs. Bernstein recorded *whatever *he wanted. No barrels held. He didn't have die with unfulfilled wishes. If he didn't record Glazunov/Schmidt/Weinberg/Creston, it probably means he _didn't want_ to. Be thankful he didn't push out albums for the sake of it. Low quality cash-ins. Karajan _might _have done that on a few occasions. But with the highest quality of course.


Low quality cash-ins? Maybe, then again, how could we be so sure? It's all subjective. Nevertheless what you said before that I agree.


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## GioCar

Bernstein recorded the most moving version of Mozart's Requiem I have ever heard.










Just one year before his death.


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## Lord Lance

dholling said:


> Low quality cash-ins? Maybe, then again, how could we be so sure? It's all subjective. Nevertheless what you said before that I agree.


Would love to hear the low quality cash-ins of Bernstein, if you find any.


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## Orfeo

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Would love to hear the low quality cash-ins of Bernstein, if you find any.


Bruckner's Sixth Symphony with the NYPO? Which is not well regarded by most Brucknerians incl. critics (though well done overall).

Nielsen's Fourth (which pales in comparisons with his takes on the Third & Fifth, the latter which is one of Bernstein's greatest achievements).


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## Orfeo

GioCar said:


> Bernstein recorded the most moving version of Mozart's Requiem I have ever heard.
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> Just one year before his death.


In loving, moving memory of his late wife Ms. Felicia Montealegre (pictured in that cover) who passed on in 1978. I always love that album.


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## aajj

Standing the test of time...


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## Woodduck

Skilmarilion said:


> This live performance of Bernstein leading the Vienna Phil through Sibelius' 7th is, for me, simply remarkable ... it just draws you in at every turn. This was the grand maestro, towards the end of his life, simply on top of his game.


Leave it to Bernstein to make Sibelius sound like a German Romantic. This is the fattest, heaviest reading of this music I've ever heard. When the beautiful chorale-like writing for strings begins at 3:12 he's already laying on the vibrato as if this were _Tristan und __Isolde_. The climaxes are Wagnerian in their weight and expansiveness, the Vienna brass in full _Gotterdammerung_ cry, but the scherzando sections of the score have too little of the lightness and fleetness implied in the writing. The sonic picture is in general more blended, smooth and rounded than sharp and clear - the sort of sound I love in a Bruckner adagio but, I'm afraid, not in Sibelius. The final pages are, as usual in late Bernstein, as distended as he feels he can can get away with. Mahler is just around the corner.

It's a distinctive view, strong on it's own terms I guess, but not my idea of Sibelius.


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## donnie a

I have a love/hate relationship with Bernstein's conducting. I grew up watching him on the Young People's concerts and enjoying his recordings and writings. At his best, he could bring out things in a piece that no one else could. But I think he could also ruin a piece of music faster than about anybody by going overboard. One thing about it, his performances were hardly ever boring. One of the great minds, great artists, and great personalities of the twentieth century, no doubt about that.

I've seen reference to the fact that there was a lot of animosity between Bernstein and the critic Harold Schonberg during Bernstein's years with the NY Philharmonic. Can anyone enlighten me on that? What was it exactly that Schonberg disliked about him?


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## Marschallin Blair

Woodduck said:


> Leave it to Bernstein to make Sibelius sound like a German Romantic. This is the fattest, heaviest reading of this music I've ever heard. When the beautiful chorale-like writing for strings begins at 3:12 he's already laying on the vibrato as if this were _Tristan und __Isolde_. The climaxes are Wagnerian in their weight and expansiveness, the Vienna brass in full _Gotterdammerung_ cry, but the scherzando sections of the score have too little of the lightness and fleetness implied in the writing. The sonic picture is in general more blended, smooth and rounded than sharp and clear - the sort of sound I love in a Bruckner adagio but, I'm afraid, not in Sibelius. The final pages are, as usual in late Bernstein, as distended as he feels he can can get away with. Mahler is just around the corner.
> 
> It's a distinctive view, strong on it's own terms I guess, but not my idea of Sibelius.


You express my sentiments beautifully, and of course just a tiny bit 'better' than I could._ ;D_

I've never warmed to the DG Bernstein Sibelius _Seventh_ because I always thought that it was ponderous and leaden sounding. . . so 'Jehovah-like.' Where are its wings?

- You say it better though.


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## Xaltotun

His Haydn masses are explosive, radiant affairs. 

To me, Bernstein embodies the ideal conductor - not that he was always right and not that it is exactly his approach and temper that conductors should strive for, but that he infused everything with his unique personality, vision and passion - THAT is what conductors should be doing. No one can give us Beethoven. Beethoven is dead. But you can give us your own vision of him.


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## phlrdfd

Like a lot of people, I associate Bernstein with Mahler more than any other composer. Some of my favorite Mahler recordings by him are the first on both Sony and DG (I think he nails the third movement better than anyone), the first NY recording of the 2nd on Sony, the 5th and 6th with the VPO on DG and the 7th on Sony.
I also enjoy his recordings of Shostakovich's 5th with NY from the late 50s and the Shostakovich 7th with the CSO, his Schumann cycle with the VPO. He was a very good Sibelius conductor as well; both the early and late recordings. 
I don't mind the slower tempos in his later DG recordings that turn some people off; including in the Tchaikovsky 6th.


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