# Health-Share



## Ingélou

Health - if you have it, you almost don't need anything else (except music)!

As I get older, I notice that I'm going in for more 'organ recitals'. At the same time, it's been good to share my worries and get support from people on TC. And when members are ill, I like to wish them well.

So this thread is for:
a) Confiding what you want to about being unwell, so we can send good wishes and/or advice, if sought.
and
b) Sharing any health tips that you've come across that you think might benefit us all.


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## Ingélou

In today's newspaper - if you walk for 30 minutes 5 times, it reduces your chance of breast cancer by 25%, your risk of bowel cancer by 45%, your risk of developing dementia by 30%, the chance of having a stroke by 30% and of developing heart disease by 40%.

Other suggested beneficial exercises include dancing, cycling - and sex!


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## Ingélou

One food supplement that I do take now is magnesium. I took it at first because it reduces night cramps and twitches, so to help sleep. Recently after Taggart had had norovirus, his body had lost lots of valuable minerals & he got cold hands and feet and very bad cramps which prevented him from sleeping. The next day in a newspaper we read that magnesium supplements could help, so he went on to them too, and it did the trick.


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## Ingélou

Drinking a mug of boiled water, tout simple, is a great way to cleanse your innards and make yourself feel good.


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> Other suggested beneficial exercises include dancing, cycling - and sex!


But be aware of the health risk. I once got my tutu caught under a mud-guard during a particularly challenging manoeuvre.


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## Chris

If you continually find yourself craving for chocolate get tested for diabetes. Left undiagnosed diabetes does nasty things internally. Having Lucentis injected into your eyeballs is discomforting.


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## Ingélou

dogen said:


> But be aware of the health risk. I once got my tutu caught under a mud-guard during a particularly challenging manoeuvre.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

_(Well, they say laughter is the best medicine!)_


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## Il_Penseroso

I usually don't take cheese, butter, cream, jam or egg with a big loaf of bread for the breakfast as it's quite common in my country... It would be raw mushrooms, tomato, carrot, orange, sesame and walnut for me, with some barley mixed with a glass of warm milk instead of having cornflakes. I've totally omitted salt and sugar from my meals. I feel much better since I've changed my diet.  

***

Always be aware of how liver toxicity can damage almost all organs of your body by causing them work not properly. Try to have pomegranate-juice or barberry-juice sometimes to detoxify your liver.


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## spokanedaniel

Chris said:


> If you continually find yourself craving for chocolate get tested for diabetes. Left undiagnosed diabetes does nasty things internally. Having Lucentis injected into your eyeballs is discomforting.


Diabetes is so common, and goes unnoticed so frequently in its early stages, that getting tested is always a good idea. But craving chocolate??? Good gosh, I crave chocolate all the time, and my annual physical always shows that (among other things) I do not have diabetes.

As for sharing health concerns... no, you don't want to hear my hypochondriac rants. If you were to tell me in a sufficiently authoritative tone, that a pin-prick feeling in the right pinky toe was a symptom of heart attack, I guarantee that within a week I would start feeling pin-pricks in my right pinky toe. Leave it at this: Getting old is no fun.

Well, I'm going to do my stretching now, then put on some music and ride the exercise bike for an hour. The positive side about being a hypochondriac is that it helps motivate me to do my exercising, which helps me stay healthier, whether my imaginary symptoms mean anything or not.


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## Kieran

spokanedaniel said:


> The positive side about being a hypochondriac is that it helps motivate me to do my exercising


Exercise causes rabies and plague to happen. Symptoms include feeling tired and thirsty after exercise, oh and sweating too! :devil:


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## trazom

Ingélou said:


> Health - if you have it, you almost don't need anything else (except music)!
> 
> As I get older, I notice that I'm going in for more 'organ recitals'. At the same time, it's been good to share my worries and get support from people on TC. And when members are ill, I like to wish them well.
> 
> So this thread is for:
> a) *Confiding what you want to about being unwell, so we can send good wishes and/or advice, if sought*.
> and
> b) Sharing any health tips that you've come across that you think might benefit us all.


Speaking of which, thanks for letting me burden you with the occasional PM whenever I feel the need to.:kiss: It feels like some of the biggest hurdles lately, mental and emotional, seem less insurmountable when there's someone there to talk to.

:wave:


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## spokanedaniel

Kieran:

Rabies used to be called hydrophobia because affected people and animals would refuse to drink water. I drink lots of water during and after exercise, so I don't have rabies. Once, about 40 years ago when I first moved to a rural farmhouse in North Dakota, a rabid skunk got into the crawl space under my house. My landlord managed to trap it. Everyone who is concerned about rabies should make a point of jogging regularly, so as to be able to outrun any rabid skunks they come across.

The best way to prevent plague is to keep cats. If you have cats you won't have rats. And if you don't have rats you won't have the rat-specific fleas that spread plague. In the Middle Ages, a time dominated by "traditional" and herbal medicine, lacking a scientific understanding of diseases, many people blamed cats, which that superstitious age associated with the devil of Christian theology. So they killed all the cats. Without any natural predators, the rat population exploded, and I forget whether it was a third of the population, or two-thirds of the population, died of plague.

People at least had the excuse that science didn't exist yet. There is no excuse today for rejecting the scientific method, or evidence-based medicine.

I know your post was in jest, but it's sadly common for people to ridicule exercise, even while advocating a holistic approach to health.


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## Kieran

spokanedaniel said:


> Kieran:
> 
> Rabies used to be called hydrophobia because affected people and animals would refuse to drink water. I drink lots of water during and after exercise, so I don't have rabies. Once, about 40 years ago when I first moved to a rural farmhouse in North Dakota, a rabid skunk got into the crawl space under my house. My landlord managed to trap it. Everyone who is concerned about rabies should make a point of jogging regularly, so as to be able to outrun any rabid skunks they come across.
> 
> The best way to prevent plague is to keep cats. If you have cats you won't have rats. And if you don't have rats you won't have the rat-specific fleas that spread plague. In the Middle Ages, a time dominated by "traditional" and herbal medicine, lacking a scientific understanding of diseases, many people blamed cats, which that superstitious age associated with the devil of Christian theology. So they killed all the cats. Without any natural predators, the rat population exploded, and I forget whether it was a third of the population, or two-thirds of the population, died of plague.
> 
> People at least had the excuse that science didn't exist yet. There is no excuse today for rejecting the scientific method, or evidence-based medicine.
> 
> I know your post was in jest, but it's sadly common for people to ridicule exercise, even while advocating a holistic approach to health.


Relax, my friend, it was certainly a joke and I'm totally willing to encourage anybody who's exercising to help their health. I do it myself. Maybe the joke at your hypochondria was a tad off, but don't worry, I'm on your side when it comes to exercise...


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## Giordano

My health tip of the century (as promoted by many others, too):

Get the spite out of your twisted lips.
Realize that you are not entitled to anything.
Throw out every stupid idea in your head and listen to your body.
Don't worry. Be happy.


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## Triplets

Ingélou said:


> In today's newspaper - if you walk for 30 minutes 5 times, it reduces your chance of breast cancer by 25%, your risk of bowel cancer by 45%, your risk of developing dementia by 30%, the chance of having a stroke by 30% and of developing heart disease by 40%.
> 
> Other suggested beneficial exercises include dancing, cycling - and sex!


What about the risk of stepping on doggie do?


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## Ingélou

Giordano said:


> My health tip of the century (as promoted by many others, too):
> 
> Get the spite out of your twisted lips.
> Realize that you are not entitled to anything.
> Throw out every stupid idea in your head and listen to your body.
> Don't worry. Be happy.


Good advice. I've been trying to follow it all my life, and sometimes I manage it.


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## brotagonist

Nibbling on a toe of garlic every day is invigorating, cleanses the brain and the blood, and is linked to longevity.


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## Kivimees

Therapy for body and soul = sauna.


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## Ingélou

Cooked plain beetroot has been praised in recent research projects for a) normalising high blood pressure b) providing energy c) relieving constipation and d) helping male potency. Sounds good!


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## Guest

That's more or less what it says on my bottle of bio (= organic) beetroot juice which I often _jazz up_ with a good glug of lemon or lime juice and a hefty shot of tabasco.


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## geralmar

I used to suffer from painful and disfiguring cold sores. One day I read an article in a health magazine recommending L-Lysine as a treatment. When I felt my next bout coming on, I took a couple of L-Lysine tablets and my symptoms began to disappear-- literally within minutes. Some years later I noticed the beginnings of a painful rash on my back. My doctor shrugged it off and said it was just a developing case of shingles. On a guess I tried L-Lysine again and the next morning the rash was gone. I was too embarrassed to tell my doctor that I had self-medicated, so I have no doctor's opinion on the efficacy of L-Lysine for anything.


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## Giordano

Here is a recipe for an *energy drink*:

Garlic
Kale
Beet
Ginger
Maitake
Shiitake
Coriolus (optional - difficult to find)

Simmer in clean fresh water in large pot till dark bright red.
Drink chilled.

[Add a little bit of honey or maple syrup if desired.
Dilute if too strong for your taste.
Drink within approx. 5 days.]


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## Guest

My "health tips" aren't very revelatory:

Two things are needed. Not one thing and neither three. But just two.

Healthy, moderate lifelong diet.
Regular, varied exercise.

For me I choose specifically:

Vegetarian.
Running.
Swimming.
Porridge. Mmmm porridge.


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## Triplets

brotagonist said:


> Nibbling on a toe of garlic every day is invigorating, cleanses the brain and the blood, and is linked to longevity.


It also gets you your own pew in Church


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## spokanedaniel

Ingélou said:


> Cooked plain beetroot has been praised in recent research projects for a) normalising high blood pressure b) providing energy c) relieving constipation and d) helping male potency. Sounds good!


There are no miracle foods, and any time a single food is attributed with claims such as the above, a big red flag goes up. The best advice is, to quote Michael Pollan, "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much." I'd add, lots of variety. The danger of advice like the above is of narrowing your diet to be too heavy on one food.

All high-fiber veggies are good for a), b), and c) above. Nothing short of general good health or potent drugs with signifcant side-effects will help with d).

That said, I love beets. When they are fresh in season I remove the crown (which is impossible to clean) and then I peel and chop the roots, wash and chop the greens, and then steam the roots with the greens. Yum! When they're not fresh, the greens are not so good.


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## Ingélou

Ah well, I wasn't advocating a beetroot-heavy diet! Or saying that it's a miracle food - just that it's good in its place. 
There's a fabulous health supplement in our newspaper today; I hope Taggart will provide the link later.


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## sospiro

Ingélou said:


> In today's newspaper - if you walk for 30 minutes 5 times, it reduces your chance of breast cancer by 25%, your risk of bowel cancer by 45%, your risk of developing dementia by 30%, the chance of having a stroke by 30% and of developing heart disease by 40%.
> 
> Other suggested beneficial exercises include dancing, cycling - and sex!


Good advice! I walk to work (25 minutes) and back (er 25 minutes!) five days a week and feel good for it. I also listen to opera on my earphones which makes me feel even better.


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## spokanedaniel

Ingélou said:


> Ah well, I wasn't advocating a beetroot-heavy diet! Or saying that it's a miracle food - just that it's good in its place.
> There's a fabulous health supplement in our newspaper today; I hope Taggart will provide the link later.


With respect, you were attributing qualities to it for which there is really no evidence. It is quite common in the "alternative health" community to attribute special qualities to certain foods, sometimes giving rise to fads where those foods are viewed as being curative, when there's no evidence for such attributions and what's wanted is a little bit of many foods.

Beets are healthful and wholesome and delicious. But they won't do any of the things suggested, other than form one small part of an overall healthy, balanced diet.


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## Ingélou

spokanedaniel said:


> With respect, you were attributing qualities to it for which there is really no evidence. It is quite common in the "alternative health" community to attribute special qualities to certain foods, sometimes giving rise to fads where those foods are viewed as being curative, when there's no evidence for such attributions and what's wanted is a little bit of many foods.
> 
> Beets are healthful and wholesome and delicious. But they won't do any of the things suggested, other than form one small part of an overall healthy, balanced diet.


With respect, I wasn't coming at it from the alternative health side, (I am not an alternative health person) but from various studies. I even say 'various health projects' in my post. It was based on what I've read in newspapers and remembered, and obviously these projects have their flaws.

I googled these links just now, which may be helpful. 
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2010/06June/Pages/Beetroot-juice-and-blood-pressure.aspx 
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/277432.php
http://www.chron.com/news/health/ar...has-been-shown-to-increase-libido-4812030.php
http://www.webmd.boots.com/healthy-eating/guide/beetroot-benefits

As far as constipation is concerned, it's from personal experience - I suffer from Irritable Bowel System, & have had two colonoscopies to investigate my constipation in the past year. Of the various foods and oils that I have tried, beetroot is the most effective.

Beetroot is mentioned in the health supplement too, in today's Sunday Telegraph, which has the format of looking at health myths and saying how true or otherwise they are. The link isn't available yet, but this is what it says - it goes much further than I would:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Quoted from 'Finally: the Ultimate Guide on What to Eat' - Anna van Praagh considers the latest findings that flip our food wisdom on its head. Sunday Telegraph 15th Feb 2015)
*SUPERFOODS*
*What the line has been:* There is no such thing as a superfood.

*What the line is now:* There has been much debate over how to define a 'superfood' but it is now clear that certain foods - mostly fruit and vegetables - are extraordinarily nutrient-dense.
'There is strong evidence that some foods deliver far more micro-nutrients than others,' says Dr Mosley. 'Watercress, beetroot and spinach, for example, all seem to deliver it a record number of vitamins and micro-nutrients.'
*Recommended amount:* As much as you like.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obviously, everything in moderation - but where did I say otherwise? In my OP I suggest that this thread might be useful for *Sharing any health tips that you've come across that you think might benefit us all.*

Any such tip is meant to be taken as a sensible suggestion, not as some sort of panacea. As I make clear on your herbalism thread, I am a great supporter of modern doctors and conventional medicine. But there is a place for lifestyle advice too. I'm simply interested in what other members have found helpful, and have no axe to grind whatsoever.

Please do not turn this thread into a ping-pong style debate. I posted it because I wanted somewhere where we can share health concerns and worries, and ways of proceeding that have helped us, a group of online friends.

And after all, we *are* both agreed that beetroot has its part to play in a healthy diet.

Any 'health tips' you have from your own life or experience will be very welcome, and thank you for posting on this thread. :tiphat:

*With hindsight, maybe I should have put in the OP some caveat about seeking medical advice for serious ailments. It never occurred to me that it was necessary. But anyway, that warning is here now. *


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## Guest

I love making beetroot soup, using garlic and onion and topped with some blue or goats cheese. Just remember not to be alarmed later when you have a pee!


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## starthrower

Ingélou said:


> Other suggested beneficial exercises include dancing, cycling - and sex!


I get the same reaction from my partner when I tell her with a straight face how beneficial sex is.
Hey, at least I tried to get some exercise!


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## Ingélou

One thing recommended a lot these days is a glass of red wine. I like red wine, and it does put me in a better mood - but the next day, I often feel a bit tired & dehydrated, so these days I don't indulge very often. The Health Article says that scientists now think red wine is overrated, however.

Dark chocolate is also praised. I eat a little every day - only a square or two - and it rounds off my meal nicely, but I can't say I've noticed any particular effect.


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> One thing recommended a lot these days is a glass of red wine. I like red wine, and it does put me in a better mood - but the next day, I often feel a bit tired & dehydrated, so these days I don't indulge very often. The Health Article says that scientists now think red wine is overrated, however.
> 
> Dark chocolate is also praised. I eat a little every day - only a square or two - and it rounds off my meal nicely, but I can't say I've noticed any particular effect.


Re: the moderate wine thing. Take a glass of water to bed...


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## Kieran

Ingélou said:


> One thing recommended a lot these days is a glass of red wine. I like red wine, and it does put me in a better mood - but the next day, I often feel a bit tired & dehydrated, so these days I don't indulge very often. The Health Article says that scientists now think red wine is overrated, however.
> 
> Dark chocolate is also praised. I eat a little every day - only a square or two - and it rounds off my meal nicely, but I can't say I've noticed any particular effect.


Definitely won't take wine or chocolate until a school of scientists tell me it's okay to...


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## sospiro

Very pertinent to our discussions on here.

The truth about so-called 'miracle' foods.


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## Giordano

^^ Take the "miracle" out of the concept and be sensible. In any case, natural unprocessed foods are always better than mass-produced processed "foods." Moderation and balance, attuning to the changing needs of the body in different circumstances and at different stages of life, and knowing that you are on a journey of learning (rather than on a one way trip to the destination of the healthy and fabulous me) is key. IMO


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## Ingélou

Giordano said:


> ^^ Take the "miracle" out of the concept and be sensible. In any case, natural unprocessed foods are always better than mass-produced processed "foods." Moderation and balance, attuning to the changing needs of the body in different circumstances and at different stages of life, and knowing that you are on a journey of learning (rather than on a one way trip to the destination of the healthy and fabulous me) is key. IMO


Fabulous post, Giordano! :tiphat:

I was interested in reading about cider vinegar on your link, sospiro. When you have tinnitus, as I have, you get pretty desperate. I had heard that it might do some good (in clearing my sinuses), so tried some; sadly, its sole effect was to give me terrible indigestion.  

The tinnitus is still with me, but my white noise machine is helping me to sleep better at night; and I am just beginning to feel more 'habituated' to it.


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## Pyotr

*Food Allergies*

For the longest time I suffered from headaches, took all kinds of pain pills, until I finally realized that if I eliminated two types of foods(listed below) from my diet, the headaches would go away. The strangest thing about it was I got a delayed reaction to the food, it didn't give me a headache right away, but took days to manifest. This article literally saved me much pain.

THE ELIMINATION CHALLENGE DIET

The diagnosis of food sensitivities can be quite difficult. There are many tests available, however, none are 100% accurate. Skin scratch testing is generally considered worthless. Newer blood tests which measure white blood cell response to various food antigens (ALCAT) have given useful results in many cases and are available.

On the other hand you yourself are the best judge of whether or not you suffer from any food sensitivities. The most well accepted criteria are symptoms provoked by eliminating food from the diet then reintroducing single foods in a controlled fashion This is termed an Elimination-Challenge test and is considered tire gold standard of food allergy testing.

Foods can produce a wide array of reactions in a given individual. Some people have classic 
hypersensitivity responses which are very consistent. For example, whenever eating strawberries or 
shellfish the victim will break out in hives develop swelling, or have difficulty breathing These reactions are clear cut and predictable. They are mediated through a particular antibody called IgE and account for less than 10% of all food reactions.

The other type of food reaction is more vague, often delayed, low-grade, and difficult to define. The 
symptoms include headaches respiratory congestion, difficulty breathing, gastrointestinal symptoms, 
arthritis skin rashes anxiety and depression. The reactions can be immediate but often are not, and in fact 
could be delayed up to four days. Well-defined clinical syndromes such as migraines, mouth ulceration 
(canker sores), congestion, asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, colitis, eczema and arthritis are associated 
with food sensitivity in some people. By performing an Elimination-Challenge Diet you can isolate 
individual foods and determine if they are causing a problem The overall strategy is quite simple: Remove suspected foods from the diet, then reintroduce them singly and watch carefully for any reactions.

The most common elimination diet I recommend is a modification of Diet A as described in William 
Crook's Tracking Down the Hidden Food Allergy. In addition to the foods listed, I usually suggest 
removing yeast products, soy, tomatoes and nuts. Yeast foods include breads, pastries, alcohol, vinegar, 
peanuts peanut butter cheese fermented foods such as sauerkraut and pickles, mushrooms dried fruits, 
smoked or processed meats, fruit juices, melons and all sweets (sugar, honey syrup, molasses etc.). Soy oil is in a lot of processed foods. Consider removing any food you eat more than once weekly.

When you go on the diet, it is important that you do it 100% because any cheating will confuse the results. You should stay on the basic elimination diet for six or seven days. It is common to feel worse on the first few days with fatigue, irritability, headaches or aching. These are withdrawal symptoms and usually pass after one to three days. Food cravings may be strong during this period, and chances are you are craving the foods that are giving you problems. By day four to six you should be feeling better. If not, continue the elimination another few days to a week.

During the elimination phase you can eat the following: certain grains including oat, buckwheat, millet, rice and amaranth; meats, fish, chicken and turkey; vegetables including potatoes and salads be careful the dressing does not contain soy oil or-vinegar-- just try olive oil with basil and garlic; legumes; and fruit limited to non-citrus and non-melon, only one well-scrubbed or peeled piece daily. Liquids are limited to spring water and herbal teas. Sample menus include breakfast of oatmeal or rice cereal with cinnamon and fruit to flavor. Lunch is salad, tuna without mayonnaise, and rice cakes. Supper is meat, fish or chicken, vegetables, yeast-free rye wafers and rice cakes with tahini (sesame seed butter).

When you begin introducing foods do one food per day and always as a pure food. For example, if you are challenging milk, do not use other dairy products such as ice cream or cheese. Try to have milk at least three times during the day and in moderate quantity; e.g. 4 glasses of milk total. The next day take out the milk and go on to the next food. Remember to keep the challenges pure; don't use bread to challenge wheat, because it has many other ingredients including yeast. Consider Wheatina cereal made with water, or whole wheat crackers without additives. You can challenge yeast with brewer's yeast tablets, about 5 or 6 per meal. Avoid most drinks during the testing, including tap water. Use only spring water, distilled water, or herbal teas. If you think you are having a reaction but are not certain, continue the food another day or two before going on to the next food. If you have a severe reaction to a food and the symptoms are carrying over to the next day, then go back to the baseline elimination diet until your symptoms clear, and wait a day until the next challenge.

In addition to the foods listed on Diet A and yeast, you could of course be sensitive to any number of foods. These particular foods have been chosen because they are the ones that people most commonly react to. If there are any other foods you suspect, and in particular foods you eat frequently (i.e. twice or more per week), consider eliminating these also and challenging singly.

One other variable is that you may have a delayed reaction to a food which could confuse the identification of what food you are actually sensitive to. However, one week after withdrawing from foods your system will be most reactive to any challenge. Therefore 80-90% of reactions will occur within 24 hours. If there are any questions, you can challenge later.

Other variations on this regimen include using an elimination diet for 10 to 14 days, then challenge each food for 2-3 clays. This is also an excellent method, but takes longer to complete the trial.

The proper interpretation of the results depends on your keeping a careful record of your symptoms during both the elimination and challenge period. On page 79 of Dr. Crook's book is a sample diary which can be filled in on a daily basis. Eight foods cause 90% of all food allergic reactions. They are dairy, egg, wheat, peanut, soy, tree nuts, fish, and shellfish.


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## sospiro

Ingélou said:


> Fabulous post, Giordano! :tiphat:
> 
> I was interested in reading about cider vinegar on your link, sospiro. When you have tinnitus, as I have, you get pretty desperate. I had heard that it might do some good (in clearing my sinuses), so tried some; sadly, its sole effect was to give me terrible indigestion.
> 
> The tinnitus is still with me, but my white noise machine is helping me to sleep better at night; and I am just beginning to feel more 'habituated' to it.


I've never suffered from tinnitus but I have a friend who's nearly driven mad by it. You have my sympathy.


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## spokanedaniel

The only health tip I can offer is that most of us (myself included) need to eat less and exercise more. I have a few pictures on my fridge of myself at my favorite wilderness hiking lodge in Canada, to remind myself of why I should eat less. (The hiking is easier and much more fun when I am at or slightly below the middle of the healthy weight range for my height, than when I am near the high end.)

I apologize if I have offended anyone in this thread. There is today an epidemic of pseudoscience surrounding health and nutrition, and I feel it's important to counter that trend whenever possible.


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## Kieran

You have nothing to apologise for, Daniel. Your contributions have been interesting and I agree totally about the need to eat with restraint and exercise more. I get the feeling that exercise will become more scarce in the world, with the ubiquitousness of computers and online games, etc. Diet will suffer too. So be glad you're of the mind to enjoy hiking and getting out and about!


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## Triplets

Ingélou said:


> One thing recommended a lot these days is a glass of red wine. I like red wine, and it does put me in a better mood - but the next day, I often feel a bit tired & dehydrated, so these days I don't indulge very often. The Health Article says that scientists now think red wine is overrated, however.
> 
> Dark chocolate is also praised. I eat a little every day - only a square or two - and it rounds off my meal nicely, but I can't say I've noticed any particular effect.


 A glass of red wine after dinner helps put me to sleep an hour later while listening to music, and therefore lowers my blood pressure, because when sleeping my children cannot aggrevate me.


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## spokanedaniel

Thank you, Kieran.

BTW, with reference to red wine:

The Mayo Clinic says that alcohol in moderation may have some health benefits and probably does no great damage (moderation being an important concept here) but that the benefits are not well enough established to warrant recommending it to people who otherwise do not drink, especially given the risks of over-indulgence.

Elsewhere I've read (I cannot remember the source) that purple grape juice has the same "benefits" as red wine. Moderation being important here also, since fruit juice of all types is high in sugar.

I used to be an alcoholic. I am no longer. I still like the taste of beer and white or pink wine, but I never liked red wine. I didn't like the taste, and it always gave me a headache. If I do have too much beer (too much for me is anything more than about 1/4 of a bottle) I do not like the way it makes me feel.


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## Überstürzter Neumann

On another thread I mentioned that I my health could have been better. I am blessed with celiac disease, Sjögren's syndrom, interstitial cystitis and last bot certainly not least primary biliary cirrhosis. Needless to say, this has certain effects on my physical and mental well-being, and forces me to be careful with quite a few things. I can't really offer any concrete advice for illnesses, just emphasize the importance to try to focus on the good things in life when possible.


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## Ingélou

That does sound a raw deal, Lennart! I hope your conditions improve, and that whole hosts of good things come your way.


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## Überstürzter Neumann

Thanks a lot for that. But alas, those conditions are auto-immune, and as such quite tricky. The only thing I can hope to improve, is actually the liver and then a transplant is necessary. But for getting that my condition will have to be much worse, and in any case it is quite a big operation...


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## spokanedaniel

Lennart said:


> On another thread I mentioned that I my health could have been better. I am blessed with celiac disease, Sjögren's syndrom, interstitial cystitis and last bot certainly not least primary biliary cirrhosis. Needless to say, this has certain effects on my physical and mental well-being, and forces me to be careful with quite a few things. I can't really offer any concrete advice for illnesses, just emphasize the importance to try to focus on the good things in life when possible.


My sincerest sympathies. I do not take pleasure in the suffering of others, but your post reminds me to be thankful that my health problems are as minor as they are. Sometimes they seem serious. Then I consider the context of humanity as a whole and realize how petty my concerns are.


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## Ingélou

Lennart said:


> Thanks a lot for that. But alas, those conditions are auto-immune, and as such quite tricky. The only thing I can hope to improve, is actually the liver and then a transplant is necessary. But for getting that my condition will have to be much worse, and in any case it is quite a big operation...


I am really sorry to hear this. I don't know what to say. It all sounds terrible.
Wishing you whatever alleviations or solace may be possible.


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## Couchie

Kieran said:


> Definitely won't take wine or chocolate until a school of scientists tell me it's okay to...


The science is pretty clear: *not drinking a glass or two per day puts you at elevated risk of cardiovascular disease.* Public health authorities hold off on this outright recommendation because they have to temper their guidelines with consideration for the social ills of over-indulgence and alcoholism. But assuming one has no problem drinking 1-2 glasses per day and ONLY 1-2 glasses per day, they should drink... for their health!


----------



## spokanedaniel

Couchie said:


> The science is pretty clear: *not drinking a glass or two per day puts you at elevated risk of cardiovascular disease.*


Not so. According to the Mayo Clinic, the science is not clear at all. Alcohol *may* have some slight benefits for your heart and other conditions. It is far from certain. From this link:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/alcohol/art-20044551



> Even so, the evidence about the possible health benefits of alcohol isn't certain, and alcohol may not benefit everyone who drinks.


From your own link:



> Conclusions Light to moderate alcohol consumption is associated with a reduced risk of multiple cardiovascular outcomes.


"Associated with reduced risk" is a far cry from "not drinking ... puts you at elevated risk."

The recommendation remains: If you drink less than two drinks per day it probably won't hurt and it may help. If you do not drink the risk of starting is far greater than the risk of continuing to not drink. It is necessary to assess all risks. If you tell someone to drink, when they don't already, on the grounds that *IF* they can hold it down to two per day they'll be better off, you are assuming that there is no risk that they will drink too much, whereas for a non-drinker, the risks of starting are significant.

Further, not all risk is equal. There is a *slight* improvement in risk for most people who drink *in moderation*. There is a *large* risk from drinking in excess, and significant risk that a non-drinker who starts drinking will be unable to limit his drinking to the recommended amount. So on balance we arrive at the Mayo Clinic's advice: If you drink 2 or fewer drinks per day there *might* be some benefit, but if you don't drink *don't start*.

I'll add that I've know a lot of people whose lives were ruined by alcohol, and a few people who were able to drink in moderation.


----------



## Couchie

spokanedaniel said:


> Not so. According to the Mayo Clinic, the science is not clear at all. Alcohol may have some slight benefits for your heart and other conditions. It is far from certain. From this link:
> 
> http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/alcohol/art-20044551


"More than a dozen prospective studies have demonstrated a consistent, strong, dose-response relation between increasing alcohol consumption and decreasing incidence of CHD. The data are similar in men and women in a number of different geographic and ethnic groups. Consumption of one or two drinks per day is associated with a reduction in risk of approximately 30% to 50%"
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/94/11/3023.full#ref-2



spokanedaniel said:


> From your own link:
> 
> "Associated with reduced risk" is a far cry from "not drinking ... puts you at elevated risk."


"It is clear that a stepwise decline in CHD death occurs with increasing drinks per day. Because CHD accounts for one third or more of total deaths, those with no alcohol consumption have higher total mortality than those drinking one to two drinks per day."
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/94/11/3023.full#ref-2



spokanedaniel said:


> The recommendation remains: If you drink less than two drinks per day it probably won't hurt and it may help. If you do not drink the risk of starting is far greater than the risk of continuing to not drink. It is necessary to assess all risks. If you tell someone to drink, when they don't already, on the grounds that IF they can hold it down to two per day they'll be better off, you are assuming that there is no risk that they will drink too much, whereas for a non-drinker, the risks of starting are significant.
> 
> Further, not all risk is equal. There is a slight improvement in risk for most people who drink in moderation. There is a large risk from drinking in excess, and significant risk that a non-drinker who starts drinking will be unable to limit his drinking to the recommended amount. So on balance we arrive at the Mayo Clinic's advice: If you drink 2 or fewer drinks per day there might be some benefit, but if you don't drink don't start.


Did I not already state that guidelines are tempered by this very consideration? But it has no impact on the science of moderate drinking itself. And even the AHA article linked above does not preclude new drinkers from getting in on the benefits of drinking alcohol:

"Therefore, the following recommendations may be made for the individual patient who is considering *beginning* or continuing to drink alcohol.

1. Consult a physician for an assessment of the benefits and risks of alcohol consumption. Persons with a personal or family history of alcoholism, hypertriglyceridemia, pancreatitis, liver disease, certain blood disorders, heart failure, and uncontrolled hypertension, as well as pregnant women and persons on certain medications that interact with alcohol, should not consume any alcohol. Any recommendations should be tailored to the individual patient's risks and potential benefits.

2. If no contraindications to alcohol consumption are present, moderate consumption of alcohol (one or two drinks per day) may be considered safe."



spokanedaniel said:


> I'll add that I've know a lot of people whose lives were ruined by alcohol, and a few people who were able to drink in moderation.


This doesn't tell me anything aside from that you likely carry a personal bias against alcohol which does not necessarily reflect the true state of alcohol's risks.


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## Ingélou

Here is the health article in last week's Sunday Telegraph - also in the Sydney Morning Herald.

Hope it provides some interest. http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/die...t-you-can--and-cant--eat-20150217-13fk6l.html

One thing it suggests to me is that no sooner do you have a research project that proves that y is good for you, than another scientist organises one that shows that y is no use at all.


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## Figleaf

Ingélou said:


> Here is the health article in last week's Sunday Telegraph - also in the Sydney Morning Herald.
> 
> Hope it provides some interest. http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/die...t-you-can--and-cant--eat-20150217-13fk6l.html
> 
> One thing it suggests to me is that no sooner do you have a research project that proves that y is good for you, than another scientist organises one that shows that y is no use at all.


I've given up following what is a superfood/ bad for you/ causes cancer. I prefer to stick to the Marie Lloyd principle- 'A Little of What You Fancy Does You Good'.


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## Pyotr

*Four Suggestions to Help Relieve Lower Back Pain*

Back pain is very tricky. When any other body part hurts, if you rest it, it will usually heal. Not so with back pain. In many cases lying down is the worst thing you can do and will frequently exacerbate the situation. In general my back has been healthy for most of my life, but about 15 years ago it started hurting because of a few things I was doing that aggravated it: 1) sitting at the computer (or in front of the TV) for hours at a time, 2)doing a lot of uninterrupted driving, 3) I wretched it playing tennis. I remember one auto trip I drove for five straight hours and the lower back pain was so bad at the end I had to sleep on the floor of the motel room for the entire weekend. A very soft mattress is another killer of the back, and the motel had one.

Today, my lower back pain is under control and is almost nonexistent. Here are four things that I do that help.

1-Visit a chiropractor once a month for a general adjustment.

2-Take daily Calcium-magnesium-VitaminD supplements. Here is the brand I take:










I posted the picture because IMO there's a big difference between calcium carbonate and calcium citrate; the latter works much better. A friend of mine once said that her doctor told her that taking these supplements was worthless because her blood test did not indicate a calcium deficiency. This is not true because the body will leech calcium out of the bones to keep the ph-level of the blood at a certain level. The body considers the ph-level of the blood more important than strong bones and when you think about it from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense. If the blood's ph-level gets too out-of-whack you will pass out, leaving you on the ground. You are more likely to survive with weak bones than passing out from bad blood.

Also, as someone previously mentioned, these supplements help reduce cramps. There's a history of leg cramps in my family. My father used to wake up in the middle of the night with excruciating leg cramps. My brother too. Me also, but not as often. As long as I'm taking these supplements, legs cramps don't happen. I can't remember the last time I had any. Of course, exercise is important. Someone who regularly exercises is going to have stronger bones than one who sits around and just takes supplements, which brings me to my next suggestion.

3-Perform a few simple back exercises that the chiropractor gave me every day, such as knee-to-chest, etc. Takes no more than 10 minutes. I also make sure that I take a walk every day outside in the fresh air.

4-Use the Back2Life machine for 15 minutes each day. It's a very simple machine that was designed by an airplane pilot who almost had to quit his job because his back pain was so bad.










My wife and I watch 3 to 4 hours of TV each night. Sitting on the sofa that long in one position is bad for the back. So we break it up by using this machine for 15 minutes each night. Just lying on the floor with your legs draped over the machine, is a better position for the back than sitting on the sofa.

I should also add that I use back pillows on the car seat. I've also learned to not drive more than 90 minutes at a time without stopping for a break and walking around.


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## Ingélou

I have had my share of back pain: this is a very interesting & helpful post, Pyotr - thank you! :tiphat:


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## spokanedaniel

Couchie said:


> "More than a dozen prospective studies have demonstrated a consistent, strong, dose-response relation between increasing alcohol consumption and decreasing incidence of CHD. <...snip...>


Prospective studies are just that: prospective. They are useful for deciding what merits further research, but are a first step, not conclusive by any means. And meta-analyses can be very informative, or can be misleading, since it depends on the quality of the underlying studies being compared. You would need to examine the underlying studies to decide how good their methodology is and how to weight their reliability. Some are likely better than others, and you need to know whether the researchers of the meta-analysis took these factors into account, which means reading the entire study, not just the abstract.

In science, no single study is the final word. There is, rather, a process by which a consensus forms of experts in a field based on a pattern of results from many studies. When you take one published paper out of the context of the entire literature you risk following an outlier rather than the general consensus.

You are basing your conclusion on one meta-study, and accusing health professionals of making bad recommendations for political reasons.

I am basing mine on the recommendation of the Mayo Clinic, which I regard as more reliable than your or my reading of one published paper. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree.



Pyotr said:


> Back pain is very tricky. When any other body part hurts, if you rest it, it will usually heal. Not so with back pain. In many cases lying down is the worst thing you can do and will frequently exacerbate the situation. In general my back has been healthy for most of my life, but about 15 years ago it started hurting because of a few things I was doing that aggravated it: 1) sitting at the computer (or in front of the TV) for hours at a time, 2)doing a lot of uninterrupted driving, 3) I wretched it playing tennis. I remember one auto trip I drove for five straight hours and the lower back pain was so bad at the end I had to sleep on the floor of the motel room for the entire weekend. A very soft mattress is another killer of the back, and the motel had one.
> 
> Today, my lower back pain is under control and is almost nonexistent. Here are four things that I do that help.
> 
> 1-Visit a chiropractor once a month for a general adjustment.
> 
> 2-Take daily Calcium-magnesium-VitaminD supplements. [...]
> 
> 3-Perform a few simple back exercises that the chiropractor gave me every day, such as knee-to-chest, etc. Takes no more than 10 minutes. I also make sure that I take a walk every day outside in the fresh air.
> 
> 4-Use the Back2Life machine for 15 minutes each day. It's a very simple machine that was designed by an airplane pilot who almost had to quit his job because his back pain was so bad.


I'm sorry to hear about your back pain. I, too, have back issues: I hurt it shoveling snow about 20 years ago, and since then it acts up any time I lift something too heavy. However:

Chiropractors don't even know themselves what they are supposed to be doing. They claim to treat "subluxations," but none of them even knows what that means, and many if not most of them claim to cure conditions as diverse as earache and infections with spinal manipulations. One red flag of a scam is claiming that one treatment cures multiple, diverse, unrelated problems.

Consumers Union showed a bunch of chiropractors a set of x-rays and asked them to mark the "subluxations." *No two chiropractors marked the same spot on the x-rays.* And what's this with all the full-back x-rays? They serve no real purpose and just give you radiation exposure.

Supplements are a scam. Most of them don't even contain the claimed ingredients.

Exercises are good. Strengthening the weak muscles and stretching the tight ones. I know nothing about the machine you mention, but there are very good exercises for the back that do not require any equipment.


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## Ingélou

I am very pleased that Pyotr has found what works for him, and found a chiropractor that he can rely on and trust, whatever the general state of affairs. And I am very grateful to him for taking the time to post in such detail about his problem - I for one never heard of the back2life machine, but will remember it if I ever have any serious back trouble again, as I did in the 1990s.

That was my reason for calling this thread a 'health-share' - that we could share our problems and supposed solutions.

Maybe someone should start another thread about scientific research, or about conventional versus complementary medicine?

Re herbalism, here is the link for spokanedaniel's thread: http://www.talkclassical.com/36460-most-herbal-supplements-arent.html - here some of these issues have already been discussed.

Please keep the lifestyle advice and life experience coming. Always good to hear from friends. :cheers:


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## Couchie

spokanedaniel said:


> Prospective studies are just that: prospective. They are useful for deciding what merits further research, but are a first step, not conclusive by any means. And meta-analyses can be very informative, or can be misleading, since it depends on the quality of the underlying studies being compared. You would need to examine the underlying studies to decide how good their methodology is and how to weight their reliability. Some are likely better than others, and you need to know whether the researchers of the meta-analysis took these factors into account, which means reading the entire study, not just the abstract.
> 
> In science, no single study is the final word. There is, rather, a process by which a consensus forms of experts in a field based on a pattern of results from many studies. When you take one published paper out of the context of the entire literature you risk following an outlier rather than the general consensus.
> 
> You are basing your conclusion on one meta-study, and accusing health professionals of making bad recommendations for political reasons.
> 
> I am basing mine on the recommendation of the Mayo Clinic, which I regard as more reliable than your or my reading of one published paper. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree.


The above was a recommendation from the *American Heart Institute*. You are being purposely disingenuous by saying my conclusion is based me reading one study. And if you are going to base your opinion on a poorly referenced one-off online article by the Mayo Clinic written for laypersons then you can't have the double standard of saying that I need to analyze in detail the 84 studies making up the meta-study before I may present it as a source.

I never accused health professionals of making bad recommendations for political reasons. It is not their role to make an unbiased determination of the consensus of the pure scientific literature so it makes no sense to go to them for that. Their role is one of involved in the administration of public health policy. So their opinions are necessarily tempered by factors beyond what the primary science itself shows. One issue is whether the science shows that moderate drinking in itself is good for heart health, another issue is whether a guideline recommending such could lead to additional heavy alcohol drinking and the problems it is known to cause. Do not conflate them.


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## SixFootScowl

> ...dark chocolate -- look for cocoa content
> of at least 70 percent -- is loaded with flavonoids, the same
> beneficial compounds found in berries, red wine and tea. An ounce of
> chocolate a day has been shown to reduce risks for heart disease, and
> an ounce and a half may help reduce stress.


from the Cleveland Clinic: 5 Healthy Foods You Think Are Unhealthy

My favorite food:


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## Giordano




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## Guest

I have intermittent back problems. I used to go to a physio for help. I think it did help, but it took several sessions to get relief. I'm pretty much in the camp that discounts "alternative" but after serious recommendation I decided to see an osteopath for my back ache. I'm glad I did. I wouldn't bother with the physio again. (I don't think I'd go to a chiro - that sounds too scary).


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## spokanedaniel

dogen said:


> I have intermittent back problems. I used to go to a physio for help. I think it did but took several sessions to get relief. I'm pretty much in the camp that discounts "alternative" but after serious recommendation I decided to see an osteopath for my back ache. I'm glad I did. I wouldn't bother with the physio again. (I don't think I'd go to a chiro - that sounds too scary).


When I lived in Spain I hurt my back carrying a microwave oven several flights of stairs up to my apartment. Two days later I could barely walk. I was so desperate I found an osteopath in the phone book and went to see her. She began by massaging my back for a while to loosen the muscles. Then she twisted me up like a pretzel and pressed so hard it hurt, but she did not "snap" anything the way chiropractors do. I walked out feeling fine. When I paid her I asked when I should return, and she said it was not necessary. A week later I was jogging again. I had had that level of back pain before and it generally took four to six weeks to recover.

Half a year later I moved to another apartment, hurt my back again, returned to her with the same results. The only difference being that on that occasion she had an assistant do the massage to save her time.

When I returned home a year after that I found an osteopath and described what the Spanish woman had done. The one here was unable to repeat the results. However, I have incorporated into my pre-exercise stretching routine a stretch for my back which approximates as well as I can manage the kind of back stretch the Spanish osteopath did, and I'm very careful to avoid lifting anything too heavy. The biggest problem is traveling with heavy luggage. My scuba gear is very heavy, and short of giving up scuba or trusting my life to rented gear, I cannot avoid a little bit of heavy lifting on those trips. I quadruple my back stretching on those trips, as well as others when I have heavy luggage. (If you don't dive, you'd be surprised how heavy a scuba regulator and buoyancy compensator are. The wet suit, also very heavy, can be left at home because I don't mind renting that. I figure they disinfect them between customers.)


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## Guest

@spokanedaniel

Yes, I can imagine a lot can be down to the individual practitioner (ostepath). The one I see is worth her weight in gold.


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## spokanedaniel

Dogen, you list your location as Murcia. Is that Murcia, Spain? I know I visited there, but don't remember anything of the city. I lived in Seville for a year and a half, in Triana, a stone's throw from the Paseo de la Inquisicion. I wonder if osteopaths in Spain receive different training than those in the U.S.


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## KenOC

Ho! Indignity upon indignity! Colonoscopy tomorrow AM, in about 12 hours. Anoscopy a couple of weeks after that. Might as well check in at my local prison and call it taken care of.


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## Taggart

Best of luck! I've got a colonoscopy scheduled for mid March followed by an endoscopy a few days later.


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## Ingélou

KenOC said:


> Ho! Indignity upon indignity! Colonoscopy tomorrow AM, in about 12 hours. Anoscopy a couple of weeks after that. Might as well check in at my local prison and call it taken care of.


Hope all goes well! :tiphat:


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## spokanedaniel

KenOC said:


> Ho! Indignity upon indignity! Colonoscopy tomorrow AM, in about 12 hours. Anoscopy a couple of weeks after that. Might as well check in at my local prison and call it taken care of.


The media's portrayal of prison is as inaccurate and as exaggerated as its portrayal of everything else. That said, I hope you get through the ordeal okay.


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## Überstürzter Neumann

KenOC said:


> Ho! Indignity upon indignity! Colonoscopy tomorrow AM, in about 12 hours. Anoscopy a couple of weeks after that. Might as well check in at my local prison and call it taken care of.





Taggart said:


> Best of luck! I've got a colonoscopy scheduled for mid March followed by an endoscopy a few days later.


I wish you good luck with your ordeals. I have only had colonoscopy once in my life and I didn't find that so bad. Myself I am in for another gastroscopy the 17th of March, and given my particular luck I suppose I can't escape a banding this time either ("Every time the world goes against me, and it rarely fails to do so when given opportunity --- P.C. Asbjørnsen)...


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## Ingélou

Wishing you all the very best for your gastroscopy, Lennart. :tiphat:


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## Taggart

Lennart said:


> I wish you good luck with your ordeals. I have only had colonoscopy once in my life and I didn't find that so bad. Myself I am in for another gastroscopy the 17th of March, and given my particular luck I suppose I can't escape a banding this time either ("Every time the world goes against me, and it rarely fails to do so when given opportunity --- P.C. Asbjørnsen)...


All the best. I know the feeling only too well. I think I've given the world too much opportunity this year.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Cool thread- just got through reading every post...

I'm in a better place, health-wise, than I was this time last year-- and I could hold forth about how I'm two-thirds the man I once was (have dropped about 6 stone 6 this past year)- but there are still some "planks-in-my-own-eye" on the health-front.

I have enough leg-strength to power a small radio station (as befits someone capable of 100-mile bike-rides)- my resting heart rate is c. 20 bpm less than what it was two years ago (so my cardio's coming along)... but my upper-body is on the receiving end of benign neglect.

I'd welcome thoughts for upper-body activities that aren't stupefyingly boring...


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## Ingélou

I don't know any exercises, but I've certainly got better arm muscles now I play the violin & try to play the piano; also, painting walls and ceilings is very productive, and develops arm muscles. 

Probably it's best to find some sort of music that you can work out to - or else join a jive class?

Congratulations on all your improvements in such a short time! Good health to you. :tiphat:


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## Kivimees

Ingélou said:


> also, painting walls and ceilings is very productive, and develops arm muscles.


If you're keen on being productive, I've got walls and ceilings....


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## Ingélou

I discovered this health-blog which seems interesting:
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/04/an-apple-a-day-does-not-keep-the-doctor-away-more-bad-science/


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## Wood

Interesting article. The author also seems to think she has all of the answers.

Do we know anything more than:

1. We should eat a balanced diet.

2, Our food should be unprocessed, free range (in the case of animal products) and not grown with chemicals.

3. We should not consistently consume more calories than we burn off*?*

I was a serial dieter for 20 years, but I'm not sure that there is more to it than the above.

<Ingelou, is the question mark above in the right place?>


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## TxllxT

1 We have turmeric powder on our morning & evening bread. Turmeric / Kurkuma prevents a lot of nasty cancers (prostate) and strengthens the immune system.

2 My wife found an easy & very effective way of combating periodontitis / paradentosis: take a small bit (a teaspoon) of pure cocos oil (paste) into your mouth and mull it around for five minutes every day. The antibacterial effect of cocos leaves the good bacteria alive and removes the baddies + tartar. After a few days one will *see*: whiter teeth & no more blooding!!

3 Castor oil. The prophet Jonah was waiting for the uprooting of Nineveh from under a castor oil plant. This castor oil has 'miracle-working' effect on hair. Careful! a drop on the wrong place and hair will grow there. But women with troubled eyelashes, balding men, deadish hair... It used to be candle oil in the Egyptian pyramids, and the first engines had castor oil as lubricant.

4 Jojoba oil. Hair repair from nature.

5 Argan oil from Morocco. To be mixed with Jojoba & Castor oil.


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## SixFootScowl

I would get a lot of cramps and extra calcium is helping. I am also told Vitamin D helps cramps. Vitamin D is one that we often are short on. Magnesium can help too.

My wife and I try to walk 30 minutes every week day at a city park and on weekends we usually get closer to an hour out at the woodlands. I read that intense exercise is not needed, that walking is best with some brief spurts of more intense exercise mixed in. Also to vary your activity during the day so you are not sitting too long at once. At work I have a computer station that allows me to stand or sit as I please.

Also have been reading that excess sugar (and things like bread that convert to sugar) are the chief drivers of cancer. Perhaps. But definitely good to limit sugar.


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## Ingélou

Wood said:


> Interesting article. The author also seems to think she has all of the answers.
> 
> Do we know anything more than:
> 
> 1. We should eat a balanced diet.
> 
> 2, Our food should be unprocessed, free range (in the case of animal products) and not grown with chemicals.
> 
> 3. We should not consistently consume more calories than we burn off*?*
> 
> I was a serial dieter for 20 years, but I'm not sure that there is more to it than the above.
> 
> <Ingelou, is the question mark above in the right place?>


Question marks - I'm off duty! 

She does seem sure of herself - I haven't had a chance to read all the various articles in the blog & of course I don't know enough to say whether she's right or wrong. I just thought it looked interesting & I'll try to read it more carefully later on.

However, I think there is growing evidence that sugar is amazingly harmful stuff, and also that fruit juice & fructose cause a lot of obesity problems. I have stopped drinking juice now in favour of water and I did lose some weight without really trying & also feel better. And this week I read in the newspaper that there is a link between sugar-diabetes & dementia which gave me pause for thought. Years ago I read John Yudkin's book 'Pure, White & Deadly' and it did convince me at the time.

:tiphat: I think your three points are spot on, and of course add 4) walking & exercising regularly, preferably every day.


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## SixFootScowl

Buy organic and avoid GMO foods. I read that the big ag companies are allowed to use herbicide to speed drying of the plants so they can get the produce to market quicker. To me that is (or should b) criminal to market food that was dosed with herbicide. 

In my own domain, my yard, we have not used chemicals on the lawn in the 15 years I have been there. The lawn is diverse, not a chemical-dependent grass monoculture, and looks fine if kept neatly mowed. Wildlife also likes my yard.


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## TurnaboutVox

Ingélou said:


> I discovered this health-blog which seems interesting:
> http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/04/an-apple-a-day-does-not-keep-the-doctor-away-more-bad-science/


Her criticisms of the non-scientific basis of other people's dietary advice may contain some wisdom, but her own dietary advice might itself be taken with a pinch of salt, Ingelou, methinks. Some of her claims are demonstrably false, like the idea that cancer is a modern disease. The idea that starch / sugar is largely responsible for a range of illnesses is not, I think, going to stand the test of time. As is usual, it's more likely that complex multifactorial causal associations will emerge in time.

I liked one American food scientist's advice, which was, in toto: 'Eat everything in moderation, mostly plants. Don't eat anything your grandmother wouldn't recognise as food.'

PS I'd go on putting chemicals on food crops. Everything is made of chemicals, including water, calcium carbonate and ammonium nitrate fertiliser without which we'd have a great deal of difficulty raising crops at all. The question surely is - which chemicals and what technology should we use?


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## Ingélou

^^^^ Thanks, TVox. :tiphat: 

I wondered myself about that cancer statement as I remembered that Anne Hyde, wife of James VII and II when he was Duke of York, died of cancer. She is remembered for having cried out, 'Duke, duke - death is terrible!' - the poor woman. 

And of course today's situation is different because many more people survive to get cancer in later life, whereas in the past they might have died of TB or poor water or starvation or war. 

I did wonder too about her advice to eat protein and fat without the carbohydrate - a sure recipe for indigestion, in my case.


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## Guest

I have diabetes. At first, I controlled it with diet, but then I had to start taking medication (Metformin and Glipizide). In the 12 years that I've had it, I've lost 30 lbs! I generally feel better, sleep better, and my cholesterol has dropped considerably. Since I retired in June, I've been walking about 5 miles a day and my A1C (3-month average of blood glucose levels) dropped from 6.9 to 6.4 (below 6 is not even considered diabetic, and my blood pressure has also dropped.) So, people, stay active and watch sugar/carbs!

My main noticeable physical issue is stomach pain/discomfort--been going on for some 3 years. I've had CT scans, X-rays, blood tests, and colonoscopies--everything is negative (in a good way!). Since they are intermittent, I guess they are not terribly serious. My doctor now thinks it must be a by-product of diabetes since diabetics often don't digest food as easily as non-diabetics. It could just be trapped gas. Lovely, huh?


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## Ingélou

Kontrapunctus said:


> I have diabetes. At first, I controlled it with diet, but then I had to start taking medication (Metformin and Glipizide). In the 12 years that I've had it, I've lost 30 lbs! I generally feel better, sleep (below 6 is not even considered diabetic) So, people, stay active and watch sugar/carbs!
> 
> My main noticeable physical issue is stomach pain/discomfort--been going on for some 3 years. I've had CT scans, X-rays, blood tests, and colonoscopies--everything is negative (in a good way!). Since they are intermittent, I guess they are not terribly serious. My doctor now thinks it must be a by-product of diabetes since diabetics often don't digest food as easily as non-diabetics. It could just be trapped gas. Lovely, huh?


I can't 'like' the post, so I'll 'appreciate' it instead. Thanks for sharing, Kontrapunctus, and I hope the pain problem fades away. 
I have less painful digestive problems but still wanted an answer - all the tests turned up negative so the verdict is that I have that old stand-by 'irritable bowel syndrome'.


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## Guest

Thank you. I went back to add some info, and a bunch got deleted, so the new version should make more sense! I probably have some IBS, too--or that might be the main problem. I guess it's hard to diagnose.


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## Wood

TurnaboutVox said:


> I'd go on putting chemicals on food crops. Everything is made of chemicals, including water, calcium carbonate and ammonium nitrate fertiliser without which we'd have a great deal of difficulty raising crops at all. The question surely is - which chemicals and what technology should we use?


Do we understand the long term consequences of some of the chemicals sprayed on crops? I don't like having female hormones spread on my food. I'm quite happy being a man.

My 'research' suggests that humanure and growing food locally is the ideal solution, with the added advantage that our water sources aren't polluted with the chlorine which is necessary when disposing of sewerage. Getting cheap cash crops from the third world is morally questionable when the profits go to pay World Bank interest payments and the sustainable lifestyle of the local population is destroyed.

Of course, this will mean that food will become much more expensive, both in labour time and cost at the shops. There would need to be a substantial restructure of society for an outcome like this to become widespread.


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## Wood

Ingélou said:


> Question marks - I'm off duty!
> 
> She does seem sure of herself - I haven't had a chance to read all the various articles in the blog & of course I don't know enough to say whether she's right or wrong. I just thought it looked interesting & I'll try to read it more carefully later on.
> 
> However, I think there is growing evidence that sugar is amazingly harmful stuff, and also that fruit juice & fructose cause a lot of obesity problems. I have stopped drinking juice now in favour of water and I did lose some weight without really trying & also feel better. And this week I read in the newspaper that there is a link between sugar-diabetes & dementia which gave me pause for thought. Years ago I read John Yudkin's book 'Pure, White & Deadly' and it did convince me at the time.
> 
> :tiphat: I think your three points are spot on, and of course add 4) walking & exercising regularly, preferably every day.




Yes, I think you are right about sugar, certainly sucrose. I don't touch it if I can help it. Sometime back I read that fructose was better to take than sucrose, because it occurs naturally in fruit and metabolises better. However, it now would appear that fructose is used in Coke etc as it is sweeter than sucrose, and it is being blamed for the record obesity levels.

There is a juicer where I work. It takes a considerable number of oranges to make one glass of juice and a lot of the nutritious stuff is filtered out. Its much better to consume the fruit directly. This time of year is great as it is possible to wander the countryside browsing on wild berries, getting free healthy food and exercise too!


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## Ingélou

Wood said:


> Do we understand the long term consequences of some of the chemicals sprayed on crops? I don't like having female hormones spread on my food. I'm quite happy being a man...


I have read in the past that there is a rise in male infertility that can be attributed to chemicals from the female contraceptive pill getting into the water supply. Also that chicken and other meats can be injected with hormones. It's all a bit scary!


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## Ingélou

Wood said:


> There is a juicer where I work. It takes a considerable number of oranges to make one glass of juice and a lot of the nutritious stuff is filtered out. Its much better to consume the fruit directly. This time of year is great as it is possible to wander the countryside browsing on wild berries, getting free healthy food and exercise too!


Yes - I still eat a couple of small oranges a day, but I don't have orange juice any more. But you're right about the berries - there is nothing so delicious as a ripe blackberry growing wild.


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## Pugg

Wood said:


> Do we understand the long term consequences of some of the chemicals sprayed on crops? I don't like having female hormones spread on my food. I'm quite happy being a man.
> 
> My 'research' suggests that humanure and growing food locally is the ideal solution, with the added advantage that our water sources aren't polluted with the chlorine which is necessary when disposing of sewerage. Getting cheap cash crops from the third world is morally questionable when the profits go to pay World Bank interest payments and the sustainable lifestyle of the local population is destroyed.
> 
> Of course, this will mean that food will become much more expensive, both in labour time and cost at the shops. There would need to be a substantial restructure of society for an outcome like this to become widespread.


The whole world revolves around the damned money making .


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## znapschatz

Florestan said:


> Buy organic and avoid GMO foods. I read that the big ag companies are allowed to use herbicide to speed drying of the plants so they can get the produce to market quicker. To me that is (or should b) criminal to market food that was dosed with herbicide.
> 
> In my own domain, my yard, we have not used chemicals on the lawn in the 15 years I have been there. The lawn is diverse, not a chemical-dependent grass monoculture, and looks fine if kept neatly mowed. *Wildlife also likes my yard.*


Same here. Our back yard has been designated a "Certified Wildlife Habitat" by the National Wildlife Federation, which entitled us to a certificate that proudly hangs in a prominent place on our kitchen wall. In addition to opossums, raccoons, and groundhogs that have visited us (our cat, sadly, has been hard on the chipmunk population), we once found a deer munching on one of our bushes. And we live in an entirely urban setting! The deer, we think, had been carried downstream in a then swollen river not far from our home, and had made its way to our yard. It probably had guidance to our place from the NWF, which publishes a 
tourist guide for visiting animals, I believe  .


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## Ingélou

It's health check up time for John ('Taggart') after all his travails three years ago (pancreatitis; emergency hernia op; intestinal polyps). He's starting with the colonoscopy on Wednesday, then we've got a date for the endoscopy in April after our trip to York. 
Oh gosh - fingers crossed that all goes well and that everything is fine!


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## Pugg

Ingélou said:


> It's health check up time for John ('Taggart') after all his travails three years ago (pancreatitis; emergency hernia op; intestinal polyps). He's starting with the colonoscopy on Wednesday, then we've got a date for the endoscopy in April after our trip to York.
> Oh gosh - fingers crossed that all goes well and that everything is fine!


All the best from the other side of the pond.


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## Ingélou

Ingélou said:


> It's health check up time for John ('Taggart') after all his travails three years ago (pancreatitis; emergency hernia op; intestinal polyps). He's starting with the colonoscopy on Wednesday, then we've got a date for the endoscopy in April after our trip to York.
> Oh gosh - fingers crossed that all goes well and that everything is fine!


John's back home - the colonoscopy found one small polyp which has been sent for biopsy but we have no special reason to be worried about it.

Because in our house John *owns* the kitchen, he is now getting our tea ready - salmon sandwiches (Never Eat Cake - Eat Salmon Sandwiches And Remain Young! ) and is delighted to be told that he may now 'eat and drink as normal'.

The endoscopy, a trickier procedure, will take place in April, after our trip to York to eye up properties for sale.


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## Jos

The people have no bread, let them eat salmon sandwiches.

Best wishes to John. Good to hear there is no immediate cause for alarm. 
My dad had a colonoscopy a few months ago, he compared it to a somewhat heavy visit to the dentist. A bit unpleasant, but endurable. Mind you, he was given a mild sedative.


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## Guest

I think he needs a new dentist.


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> after our trip to York to eye up properties for sale.


I always fancied Dewsbury Terrace myself. Either that, or Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma-Gate. :lol:


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## Taggart

dogen said:


> I always fancied Dewsbury Terrace myself. Either that, or Whip-Ma-Whop-Ma-Gate. :lol:


We would need a house a little bigger than the street sign, which runs almost the length of the street.


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## Taggart

Jos said:


> The people have no bread, let them eat salmon sandwiches.
> 
> Best wishes to John. Good to hear there is no immediate cause for alarm.
> My dad had a colonoscopy a few months ago, he compared it to a somewhat heavy visit to the dentist. A bit unpleasant, but endurable. Mind you, he was given a mild sedative.


Thanks for that. I was sedated and it wasn't too bad. You can see what is happening on a screen in front of. Thankfully, the doctor didn't switch the camera on until just after he'd started.  The worst bit is the preparation and the less said about that, the better.


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## Guest

I've seen the future and it's low and no alcohol beer. Well, my future anyway


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## Ingélou

dogen said:


> I've seen the future and it's low and no alcohol beer. Well, my future anyway


John decided to give up alcohol after his attack of pancreatitis in 2014 - he doesn't miss it now. 
Hope it works out for you and your health improves - maybe give yourself extra helpings of chocolate and other delights?


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> John decided to give up alcohol after his attack of pancreatitis in 2014 - he doesn't miss it now.
> Hope it works out for you and your health improves - maybe give yourself extra helpings of chocolate and other delights?


You must be psychic, he says whilst savouring a salted caramel Lindt Lindor.


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## Ingélou

I'm laid up with an ear infection. Every time I eat something I feel sick unto death, so probably better not to. I'm taking an ear spray (prescribed by the doctor yesterday) - otomize - but it's too early to tell if it's working yet. What's problematic is that though I'm very tired, I'm too nauseous and my muscles ache too much for me to sleep very well.

I really just want to know if this is normal and how to manage it and whether I'm allowed to have something to help me sleep - but it's very difficult to get any medical advice. Tag tried ringing 'messages' this morning & was told it was busy - in the end he went physically to the doctors and was told that we'd get a call from the 'care team' later in the day.

But nobody has called yet.

It just makes me feel so alone and desperate. 

Any advice, anyone?
I'd love it if one of you who's had an ear infection would tell me that I'll be right as rain in a day or two after a bit of bedrest.


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## TxllxT

Ingélou said:


> I'm laid up with an ear infection. Every time I eat something I feel sick unto death, so probably better not to. I'm taking an ear spray (prescribed by the doctor yesterday) - otomize - but it's too early to tell if it's working yet. What's problematic is that though I'm very tired, I'm too nauseous and my muscles ache too much for me to sleep very well.
> 
> I really just want to know if this is normal and how to manage it and whether I'm allowed to have something to help me sleep - but it's very difficult to get any medical advice. Tag tried ringing 'messages' this morning & was told it was busy - in the end he went physically to the doctors and was told that we'd get a call from the 'care team' later in the day.
> 
> But nobody has called yet.
> 
> It just makes me feel so alone and desperate.
> 
> Any advice, anyone?
> I'd love it if one of you who's had an ear infection would tell me that I'll be right as rain in a day or two after a bit of bedrest.


Hydrogen peroxide 3% helps to prevent ear infection, but I don't know whether it treats ear infection. Wishing you well, take care! Clearing the eustachian tube: keep your nose closed and 'blow your nose'. That might relieve inner tensions on the inside of the eardrum. Otherwise a closed eustachian tube can make you feel sick very much.


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## Guest

I've had an ear infection twice. It was very painful, I think I needed antibiotics. I don't recall any other symptoms.

Have you checked the NHS site?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ear-infections/#symptoms


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## Ingélou

Thanks, TxllxT and dogen. :tiphat::tiphat:

Taggart just rang the 'messages' line again and discovered - with 20 minutes to go - that they'd got me an appointment with a nurse practitioner, so we dashed up, me carrying a sick bowl discreetly in a plastic bag, and saw her. At my request she prescribed me some tablets to stop me feeling sick. They will also make me drowsy, so I'm putting off taking them till later. 

The good news is that when she examined my ears she said there wasn't all that much wax - quite different from what the doctor said yesterday - so the spray must already be working and maybe that's why I'm feeling so sick. 

I am feeling a bit better now I'm home and have had my fifth lot of the spray, and also read your sympathetic messages. It's when I can't talk to anyone that I feel particularly bad. Because of my tinnitus (which necessitates white noise machines and birdsong on the computer), Taggart and I have a bedroom each, so I didn't like to wake him last night when I really felt as if I was at death's door. 

Hopefully that door will remain closed for a little longer...


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## TxllxT

Ingélou said:


> Thanks, TxllxT and dogen. :tiphat::tiphat:
> 
> Taggart just rang the 'messages' line again and discovered - with 20 minutes to go - that they'd got me an appointment with a nurse practitioner, so we dashed up, me carrying a sick bowl discreetly in a plastic bag, and saw her. At my request she prescribed me some tablets to stop me feeling sick. They will also make me drowsy, so I'm putting off taking them till later.
> 
> The good news is that when she examined my ears she said there wasn't all that much wax - quite different from what the doctor said yesterday - so the spray must already be working and maybe that's why I'm feeling so sick.
> 
> I am feeling a bit better now I'm home and have had my fifth lot of the spray, and also read your sympathetic messages. It's when I can't talk to anyone that I feel particularly bad. Because of my tinnitus (which necessitates white noise machines and birdsong on the computer), Taggart and I have a bedroom each, so I didn't like to wake him last night when I really felt as if I was at death's door.
> 
> Hopefully that door will remain closed for a little longer...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9ni%C3%A8re%27s_disease My mother used to have Menière's disease (has to do with the inner ear) and she got a special pair of glasses to get rid of the headache's etc.


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## KenOC

My wife had a periodically closed Eustachian tube (different symptoms though). It was diagnosed as an allergic reaction. It cleared up quickly using a neti pot. Every drug store (chemist's shop?) has these.


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## Pat Fairlea

Ingélou said:


> Thanks, TxllxT and dogen. :tiphat::tiphat:
> 
> Taggart just rang the 'messages' line again and discovered - with 20 minutes to go - that they'd got me an appointment with a nurse practitioner, so we dashed up, me carrying a sick bowl discreetly in a plastic bag, and saw her. At my request she prescribed me some tablets to stop me feeling sick. They will also make me drowsy, so I'm putting off taking them till later.
> 
> The good news is that when she examined my ears she said there wasn't all that much wax - quite different from what the doctor said yesterday - so the spray must already be working and maybe that's why I'm feeling so sick.
> 
> I am feeling a bit better now I'm home and have had my fifth lot of the spray, and also read your sympathetic messages. It's when I can't talk to anyone that I feel particularly bad. Because of my tinnitus (which necessitates white noise machines and birdsong on the computer), Taggart and I have a bedroom each, so I didn't like to wake him last night when I really felt as if I was at death's door.
> 
> Hopefully that door will remain closed for a little longer...


Sounds horrible. I used to get middle ear infections whenever I was generally run down. Antibiotics cleared it up after a few days, but the sensation of pressure and the occasional foul discharge into the back of the throat was a real downer. I hope you're very quickly restored to full health and find your ideal home in York.


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