# Thou Shalt Not Ignore Felix Weingartner!



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

This fella deserves his own thread. This is because there are probably many people who have never heard of him. He deserves some emphasis. Trust me, if you love the symphonies of Mahler, Bruckner (particularly their adagios), Wagner Preludes, then you will probably love the music of Weingartner.

My advice, Weingartner has seven symphonies: *Start out by listening to the Adagios.*
















Please share your thoughts.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

Ever heard of the Composers Guestbooks section?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

You can download for free, Weingartner's 1935 Beethoven Ninth from HERE. Presumably the age of the recording puts it in the public domain?


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

nathanb said:


> Ever heard of the Composers Guestbooks section?


Yes, but I don't think this post is out of place here. Also, if the point is to introduce certain people to Weingartner (Mahler, Bruckner, Wagner fans) then this is the wiser option.

It only takes one person who sees this thread, plays the music, is very happy they were introduced to it, and yet confesses that they probably wouldn't have discovered it if it was posted on the Composers Guestbook. At least this one person would be happy it was posted here.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Klassic said:


> Yes, but I don't think this post is out of place here. Also, if the point is to introduce certain people to Weingartner (Mahler, Bruckner, Wagner fans) then this is the wiser option.
> 
> It only takes one person who sees this thread, plays the music, is very happy they were introduced to it, and yet confesses that they probably wouldn't have discovered it if it was posted on the Composers Guestbook. At least this one person would be happy it was posted here.


By this reasoning, we should get rid of the whole Composers Guestbook section.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Composers Guestbook? Am I missing something? Weingartner is primarily known as a conductor, not a composer (or so I have believed).


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Honestly, the Composers Guestbook is the best place to look for composers specifically, and recommendations and discussion. I will move it there as a part of our extensive composer archive on permission of the poster nevertheless, but the consequence you can expect to have is this thread to fall into the thousands of abandoned threads this main Classical Discussion Forum has, and be difficult for anyone to find again.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> By this reasoning, we should get rid of the whole Composers Guestbook section.


I think I see the problem here. I started out this thread by saying, "I think fella deserves his own thread." Yes, I agree this is what the Composer's Guestbook is for. However, what I meant, was that I believe he deserves to be mentioned in the general section (a post with his name in the title) instead of my previous thread where I merely alluded to him by other means: http://www.talkclassical.com/42374-mahler-fans-why-didnt.html. [Damn this is confusing.]

Anyhow, I hope someone who has never heard of him before sees this thread and likes his music to make it all worth it. I'm just trying to spread as much quality, musical literacy as I can.


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## sweetviolin (Jun 21, 2015)

What made me confused at first when searching for him at Spotify. 

His own music is nice though.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank for introducing me to another new composer.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2016)

Klassic said:


> I think I see the problem here. I started out this thread by saying, "I think fella deserves his own thread." Yes, I agree this is what the Composer's Guestbook is for. However, what I meant, was that I believe he deserves to be mentioned in the general section (a post with his name in the title) instead of my previous thread where I merely alluded to him by other means: http://www.talkclassical.com/42374-mahler-fans-why-didnt.html. [Damn this is confusing.]
> 
> Anyhow, I hope someone who has never heard of him before sees this thread and likes his music to make it all worth it. I'm just trying to spread as much quality, musical literacy as I can.


I could flood this forum mighty quick with that kind of thinking. As I recall, a member recently got in a bit of trouble here and there for flooding.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Ever heard of the Composers Guestbooks section?


This, and one can make up his own mind also


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I just gave a try to his symphonies, and was captivated from the first bars. I must have somehow missed him during my exploration of Viennese late romantics.

This is indeed no "arguable" or second rate stuff. It's a Viennese Tchaikovsky :angel:

Bruckner, Mahler, Weingartner.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Fabulin said:


> I just gave a try to his symphonies, and was captivated from the first bars. I must have somehow missed him during my exploration of Viennese late romantics.
> 
> This is indeed no "arguable" or second rate stuff.
> 
> Bruckner, Mahler, Weingartner.


I am not so sure. I discovered him some time ago. His symphonies sound great at first hearing (great instrumentation, he was a conductor), but when you give them more time, they are not that great. He is certainly no Bruckner and no Mahler


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Jacck said:


> I am not so sure. I discovered him some time ago. His symphonies sound great at first hearing (great instrumentation, he was a conductor), but when you give them more time, they are not that great. He is certainly no Bruckner and no Mahler


I find Mahler boring and at times even annoying in terms of both orchestration and melody. Weingartner on the contrary reminds me more of Tchaikovsky, Schumann, and Mendelssohn, in that he took care of both the melodic longline and logic, and the efficiency and clarity of the orchestral execution.

His music shows a mind clearly thinking of the listener, not its own ego, and he certainly has his own character, different than Dvorak, Bruckner, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, and other symphonists. The same cannot be said of Zemlinsky or the earlier Raff, for example.

Weingartner sounds very much like a continuous adventure, and takes the listener on it. He is not crying for help, but seems to himself be offering something instead. I love such a "leadership" mindset in music.

Of course I will give him many more listens, and see where my opinion ultimately lands, but in really great music some things are apparent from the get go, and I am honestly shocked how complete enjoyment did I get from his works. I never would have expected that from any "unknown" late Romantic composer left for me to uncover on a random Tuesday afternoon.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Fabulin said:


> I find Mahler boring and at times even annoying in terms of both orchestration and melody. Weingartner on the contrary reminds me more of Tchaikovsky, Schumann, and Mendelssohn, in that he took care of efficiency and clarity in addition to great melody and orchestral execution thereof.


I am not the biggest Mahler fan either. I find him pompous. I will have to relisten to Weingartner. I was just reporting about my impression of his music (or my memory of it).


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Jacck said:


> I am not the biggest Mahler fan either. I find him pompous. I will have to relisten to Weingartner. I was just reporting about my impression of his music (or my memory of it).


I edited my post, you might wish to take another look at it.

In any case, I am also just reporting my huge surprise. I am deeply interested in, and at the same time, based on experiences so far, a bit skeptical towards previously unheard works of such late-late Romantics as Schreker, R. Strauss, Zemlinsky, or Korngold, not to mention lesser fry, whether Austrian, German, or Russian, and I always think afterwards "yep, that's why this is not considered first rate".

But with Weingartner... this just did not happen at any point. The final notes rang, and I was still excited.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Jacck said:


> I am not so sure. I discovered him some time ago. His symphonies sound great at first hearing (great instrumentation, he was a conductor), but when you give them more time, they are not that great. He is certainly no Bruckner and no Mahler


That's my impression as well. He's not a first-rate composer, but I wouldn't mind listening to one of his symphonies every decade or so.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I enjoy the Weingartner symphonies, they're brilliantly orchestrated for sure. But like most every other composer-conductor he was far better with a baton in his hand than a pencil.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> I enjoy the Weingartner symphonies, they're brilliantly orchestrated for sure. But like most every other composer-conductor he was far better with a baton in his hand than a pencil.


Which composer-conductors in your view wrote better music than Weingartner, and didn't bear the surname "Mahler"?


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

I do have that fat boxset of complete Weingartner symphonies by cpo and I enjoy a listen now and then, but his works are not in the top league in my opinion. Some works are more enjoyable than others and even have lasting power (like you can find yourself whistling snippets and bits). For example - check out the Overture 'Aus ernster Zeit', Op. 56, very recommended listen. Weingartner had some fun with national anthems and it's like the themes were having a musical equivalent of World War among themselves.


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