# Suggestions required from experts



## Stefano (Mar 25, 2011)

Hi all,
I'm a big fan of Beethoven and Mozart and a little less than Bach.
I also like Vivaldi, Schubert and Rossini.

I own and I know the Beethoven 9 symphonies, five concertos for piano and orchestra, the 32 piano sonatas and all Overtures.
There is something remarkable that I'm missing of Beethoven?

I own and I know the Mozart 4 concertos for horn and orchestra, eine klein nachmusik (K525, K320 and K239), the symphonies from 35 to 41, Requiem.
There is something remarkable that I miss Mozart?

I own and I know the six Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, the passion of St. Matthew and Toccata and Fugue (organ).

I have the 4 seasons of Vivaldi.

Then I have something of Schubert (Symphony 8-9), Smetana (Ma Vlast) and Rossini (overtures).

In addition to Beethoven and Mozart (on what I'm missing), I really appreciate from you some advice on buying especially some works of Haydn and Wagner, keeping in mind that I prefer by far the symphonies (all instruments together with or without piano) rather than choral works (like Mozart Requiem or Bach’s S. Matthew Passions) or work based on single instrument (solo piano, solo violin and so on).
Closing, I would like your suggestions about some must-have masterpiece of Haydn and/or Wagner and/or Strauss and/or Schubert.
I thank you in advance.
Best regards
Stefano


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Beethoven: violin concerto, and in time (not directly) the late string quartets.
Mozart: piano concertos form #20 onwards, clarinet concerto
Schubert: Symphony 8, String quintet, Octet, Die Winterreise.
R Strauss: Don Juan, Metamorphosen; Vier letzte Lieder


----------



## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

There is a lot of 'remarkable' stuff you're missing. Just a few that pop into my head:

*Beethoven*
Violin Concerto
Cello sonatas
Violin sonatas
String quartets (16 of them, spanning the whole of Beethoven's composing career)
Piano trios (including _Ghost_ and _Archduke_)
Septet in E flat Op 20
Quintet for piano and winds Op 16
Fidelio (his only opera, a revision of the earlier _Lenore_)
Mass in C
_Missa solemnis_

*Mozart*
5 violin concertos
Clarinet Concerto
Piano Concertos 5-27
Symphonies 14, 17, 20, 21, 25, 29, 30-41
String quartets (23 of them)
Piano sonatas
Violin sonatas
Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola (one of his supreme works)
Divertimento for string trio K 563
Piano quartets
Piano trios
Operas (_Marriage of Figaro_, _Magic Flute_, _Don Giovanni_, _Seraglio_, _Impresario_,_ Idomeneo_)
Requiem
Mass in C minor
Serenade for 13 winds K 361


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2011)

Stefano said:


> Hi all,
> I'm a big fan of Beethoven and Mozart and a little less than Bach.
> I also like Vivaldi, Schubert and Rossini.
> 
> ...


Haydn is great. Try his symphonies - if you have to start anywhere, get the London Symphonies, or even the Paris symphonies. I know you prefer orchestral to choral, but I highly recommend his Lord Nelson Mass, and, above all, his Creation oratorio. If you can bring yourself to do it, try his string quartets, as well.

Schubert had some wonderful orchestral works, but where I think he really shines is in his chamber works. His piano sonatas are not to be missed, especially if you like Beethoven's. His "Death and the Maiden" and "Rosamunde" string quartets are simply incredible - some of the finest of the genre, imho. But don't be without his Lieder. His "Winterreise" lieder cycle is indispensable, but some of his independent lieder are not to be missed - Erlkoenig, especially, as well as Death and the Maiden, the tune of which is incorporated into the string quartet mentioned above. Finally, his string quintet.

Beethoven - as already mentioned, try his violin concerto. And while not given as much press, you might also enjoy his "Triple" concerto for violin, cello, and piano. Again, I know you don't like choral works as much, but his Missa Solemnis, especially if you enjoy the 9th symphony, is incredible. The string quartets are another area where his genius shines. I know someone already said his late string quartets, but it sounds like you would probably do better first trying his middle "heroic" period quartets - the Razumovsky and Harp quartets. Of the late ones, the 15th is my favorite.

Mozart - the piano concertos. Additionally, his violin concertos (5 of them) are also very nice, and don't forget the Sinfonia concertante, a concerto for both violin and viola. If you can bring yourself to it, I would definitely sample his operas. I generally don't enjoy operas that much, but Mozart is the exception. Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro, The Magic Flute - all great places to start.

Strauss - Alpensinfonie, Also Sprach Zarathustra, Ein Heldenleben.

Bach - now here you might not like my suggestions, because I love his choral works more than most other things wrote. His cantatas are wonderful. If you don't like the St. Matthew Passion as much, I say try his Mass in B Minor before you abandon his choral works. It is simply incredible. He has so many concertos it is hard to narrow down which to try, but definitely look into his violin concertos. His solo keyboard works are also wonderful. The Goldberg Variations are excellent. Some of my other favorite works of his get a little more tough to digest if you are just starting, but I'll mention them anyway - Die Kunst der Fuge, Musical Offering. Finally, his Cello Suites and Well-tempered Clavier are also great, but might be overload if you don't like solo instrumental. But at least listen to the very first of each.


----------



## Stefano (Mar 25, 2011)

I thank you very much for your very precious suggestions (I appreciate all your suggestions, but in particular I liked the details provided by DrMike).
I will buy what you recommended, starting from the works that are in common with your suggestions. 

To better understand my thoughts about Beethoven, below there is a ranking (even if is not easy because, we are talking about masterpieces):

Beethoven Symphonies:

1st: 9, 3, 6 symphonies;
2nd: 7, 8 and 4 symphonies;
3rd: 5 symponie;
4th: 2 and 1st symphonies;
5th: the ruins of Athens (overture

Beethoven Overtures:
1st: Ruins of Athens, Namensfeier, 
2nd: King Stephan, Die Weihe des hauses, Leonore, Fidelio, 
4rd: Egmont, Coriolan
5th: The creatures of Prometeus 

Beethoven Piano Concertos:
1st: 4 and 5 concertos, 
2nd: 1 concert,
3rd: 2 and 3 concertos 

Beethoven Piano Sonatas:
1st: Appassionata and Patetica,
2nd: the remaining sonatas (as I told you before, I prefer by far the symphonic works)


----------



## kmisho (Oct 22, 2009)

I've always been bowled over by the Wagner's overtures to Tannhauser and Tristan und Isolde.

Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel is just fun music, fittingly whimsical and colorful.


----------



## Stefano (Mar 25, 2011)

Thank you kmisho.
I'll take in account your suggestions!


----------



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Looking at your Beethoven rankings, you seem to be most attracted to his so called "Middle" or "Heroic" period. That being the case, you simply MUST purchase the violin concerto. Written smack in the middle of his heroic period, it combines the musical struggle common to Beethoven's works with a melodic lyricism that is gorgeous.

There are many great recordings out there, but my favorite is Hahn/Zinman. The recording quality is amazing and Hahn owned this concerto when she was younger. Its an amazing recording.


----------



## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

By no means an expert, but these are the things that quickly come to mind.

For Beethoven, I absolutely must must must recommend his *violin concerto*. It's by far my favorite of his compositions. It's so lyrical, especially the first movement. My favorite recording would be Szeryng's. Oistrach's is nice as well.

For Mozart, people have a lot of good to say about the *piano concertos* (I have one set - Uchida's - but haven't had the time to go into it seriously). My favorite works of his would be his *5 violin concertos* (especially the last 3) and his *sinfonia concertante for violin/viola *(my favorite composition of his). You can get a full set of these by Grumiaux, which is quite exquisite, for a pretty good price. His *clarinet concerto* is also quite nice (the 2nd movement is beautiful).

For Bach, two things come to mind (you may also notice a trend): his *3 sonatas and 3 partitas for solo violin *(Szeryng has a set of this which I find simply perfect - the Chaconne is out of this world!). And his *violin concertos (one for two violins, two for one violin, one for violin and oboe)*; I really like Julia Fischer's recording of these. His *6 unaccompanied cello suites* are really good. I'm only just getting into Glenn Gould's keyboard works, but the *Marcello concerto* is really great, as are the (later recording) *Goldberg Variations*.

Anyhow, based on your preferences, it seems you should really explore the concertos more, or symphonies by other composers.


----------



## wingracer (Mar 7, 2011)

For Bach, you should check out his orchestral suites. They are wonderful.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I'll just give what I feel is the single most glaring omission from each so you don't just end up with a comprehensive listing of each composers oeuvre by the end of this:

Beethoven: The 'Late' String Quartets
Mozart: Don Giovanni
Bach: The Well-Tempered Clavier (explore them here! http://www2.nau.edu/tas3/wtc.html)
Schuber: Death and the Maiden

I would put Vivaldi, Smetana, and Rossini on a back-burner until later.

Haydn: Don't bother.

Wagner: Tristan und Isolde. If you are new to opera, watch it first on DVD, it will be easier to digest rather than attempting to read the libretto while listening to the music (and being unable to focus on Wagner's gorgeous instrumentation).


----------



## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Art Rock and Dr. Mike have recommended Schubert pieces, and I advise to listen to them. You should start with Schubert's chamber output which is some of the greatest ever composed.

*Chamber music*

*1. String Quintet in C major D.956 *

- considered as one of the greatest chamber music ever written and certainly the best quintet, this masterpiece is Schubert at his finest. Incredible and gut wrenching, this piece will make you happy and sad at the same time.

*
2. Piano Trio no. 1 in B-flat major and Piano Trio no. 2 in E-flat*

- These piano trios rank among the best written in the genre.. Some even consider them finer than Beethoveen's Archduke. The first one is carefree and a revel of gladness, while the second one is moody and introspective. The second movements of these piano trios are very sublime and achingly beautiful. Kubrick used the 2nd movement of Piano Trio no. 2 in Barry Lyndon.

*
3. String Quartet no. 14 in D Minor, ''Death and the Maiden''*

- Together with Beethoven's last quartets, Schubert's no. 14 is the greatest achievement of String quartet repertoire in 19th century. It is one of the pillar of chamber music. The theme is death, and the quartet is hypnotic, haunting and heavenly.. This quartet shows Schubert, his powers at the genre. Must listen.

*Piano Music*

Schubert's piano music was neglected on 19th century, because people thought they were inferior to Beethoven. Today they are revered as masterpieces, different from Beethoven, but can stand on their own. I prefer Schubert's piano music than Beethoven.

*
1. Impromptus D.899*

- These piano pieces are gems! It spans a lot of moods, and characterizes Schubert penchant for melody. They are beautiful and full of melody that will fill your head at the long time.

*
2. Piano Sonata no. 21 in B flat major*

- My favorite sonata! If you want to glimpse what does heaven look like, listen to this. You will feel like you are lost in time, and you are ascending to heaven. This is Schubert at his most sublime..

*
3. Wanderer Fantasy
*

Schubert most virtuosic work, influenced Liszt and ushered a new style of piano music which was based on transformations of themes (thematic development). The second movement is the most beautiful virtuosic passage, imo.

*4. Fantasia in F minor, D.940*

Greatest. Piano. Duet. Ever.

Well, if you need more advice in Schubert, we're here.. You will discover some of the most sublime works, tinged with happpiness and joy, at the same time.. Happy listening! 

Edit: I can't vouch for Bach but his Double Violin concerto is awesome. Beethoven's piano concertos are good. If you prefer, a violin that plays in the background, then get Beethoven's violin concerto.


----------



## Stefano (Mar 25, 2011)

Many Thanks to all of you for the additional suggestions.
In a few days I'll purchase the most of the records that you have suggested and I will share with you my impressions.
Thank you again!
Stefano


----------



## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

@Stefano

You're very much welcome!


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

For Mozart , in addition to Don Giovanni,you should try his other operas such as Le Nozze Di Figaro(The marriage of Figaro),Die Zauberflote(The magic flute), Cosi Fan Tutte (So do they all), Die Enftuhrung Aus Dem Serail (The abduction from the Seraglio), and Idomeneo and La Clemenza Di Tito(The clemency of emperor Titus). 
There are many excellent recordings conducted by such eminent maestros as Karl Bohm,Carlo Maria Giulini, Herbert Von Karajan, James Levine,John Eliot Gardiner, Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Riccardo Muti, Sir Georg Solti, and Charls Mackerras,for example,with a galaxy of great singers,


----------

