# Sir Thomas Beecham



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I've just read John Lucas' biography of Beecham. The conductor comes over as a brilliant, self-obsessed man with a mania for making music. His irascible wit and the fact that he was practically self-taught - some of his contemporaries considered him an amateur - did not endear him the establishment. Nor did the fact that he would at times bite the hands that were trying to feed him by making ill timed speeches, attacking the very people who he was conducting for. An example that genius and sheer stupidity can walk hand in hand.
However, none of this detracts from the sheer brilliance of Beecham's conducting. Listening to his recordings one can hear the way he can lift an orchestra to play above themselves. Whatever the fashions in conducting, there is a musical rightness about what he did. 
Sadly in the arena which he excelled - opera - he made too few recordings. Just Die Zauberflote, Seraglio, Faust (x2), La Boheme and Carmen are all I know but each in its way is a classic. What a tragedy there is no more. 
I wonder in this thread people would like to share their opinions of Beecham and some of their favourites among his recordings. And perhaps some of their favourite quotes.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Beecham had more circumspection than The Donald does - most folks do - but he still followed the dictum stated in "I calls 'em like I sees 'em" about as much as _moody_ did. One of my favorite Beechamisms goes something like "I don't know why British orchestras are seeking out 3rd rate European conductors when there are 2nd rate British conductors available."


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## Templeton (Dec 20, 2014)

To an under-performing female cellist, “Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands – and all you can do is scratch it.” Classic.

A truly remarkable man and to some extent, quite underrated by today's classical listeners. I think that his version of Beethoven's 7th Symphony is up there with the very best of them and I really like some of his Richard Strauss.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

DavidA said:


> favourites among his recordings.


I have an ancient CD set _Beecham Conducts Delius_ (EMI, 1987) that I enjoy immensely. It's with the RPO. _Over the Hills and Far Away_, and _Summer Evening_ are just a couple of gems to be found in this recording.

Beecham viewed Delius as "the last great apostle in our time of romance, emotion and beauty", and really became an indispensable promoter of that composer's work.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Perhaps my favourite Beecham quote: "A musicologist is someone who can read music but can't hear it!" His recordings are very in-PC by today's HIP standards but all the time you know there is a true musician in charge.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Ukko said:


> Beecham had more circumspection than The Donald does - most folks do - but he still followed the dictum stated in "I calls 'em like I sees 'em" about as much as _moody_ did. *One of my favorite Beechamisms goes something like "I don't know why British orchestras are seeking out 3rd rate European conductors when there are 2nd rate British conductors available."*




I believe the barb was directed at Kubelick's appointment at Covent Garden. Beecham had often dreamed and schemed towards a British opera house, but this was not what he had in mind. Of course, he was not the man to actually run it - he could never get on with committees and the like and his managing of finance generally made Wagner look thrifty by comparison - but he was a brilliant opera conductor. So he had good reason to feel miffed he was not even invited to conduct there. It was also a great disservice to the British public.


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## Fat Bob (Sep 25, 2015)

I don't think Beecham was a fan of the harpsichord - I recall a comment along the lines of "the sound of two skeletons copulating on a tin roof". And when Karajan was becoming better known he was described as "a musical Malcolm Sargent". 

Favourite recordings of his: Schubert's 5th symphony and Sibelius 7th and Tapiola.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

As far as recordings, I also agree that his Delius recordings are superb. Also his Schubert symphonies.


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## KirbyH (Jun 30, 2015)

This is exactly the sort of thing I come to this website for - I believe one of my favorite quips by him is, upon being asked if he'd heard any Stockhausen, he replied "no, but I believe I'd trod in some."


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

As I've said, Beecham made too few recordings of opera.
The ones I have are superbly conducted:
Die Zauberflote from 1938 with BPO. This was masterminded by Walter Legge. Sadly Tauber was not in the cast as being part Jewish he did not want to risk being in Nazi controlled Germany.
Faust from 1948 with a capable but not outstanding French cast. This was neglected by EMI who promoted the version under Cluytons. But for conducting and the authentic French style, Beecham is the best.
La Boheme with de Los Angeles and Bjoerling. Absolute classic, especially as Beecham studied the score with Puccini himself.
Carmen with de Los Angeles is conducted with a swing and élan that no other version quite matches. There are other ways of doing it - de Los Angeles is a charmer rather than a seductress - but this has always set the standard.
Seraglio with Frick. The female cast could be better but Frick and Beecham are both superb. 
There is an early version of Faust in English which I haven't heard. And a Tristan which I believe is part conducted by Beecham. There are other recordings, I believe, of live performances in atrocious sound.
But these are the sum total of the Beecham opera recordings I know. Anyone know any others?


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I've just read John Lucas' biography of Beecham.


My copy of the book came with a CD of rehearsals. This is an intriguing document of Tommy at work - anecdotes, examples of him considering the score, samples of him shouting along as the orchestra play - interesting and enjoyable


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Sir TB was my very first choice when I tried to get my first Haydn symphony set (EMI). I still enjoy that recordings which I choosed over many others.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2016)

I've not listened to many of his recordings (just trying his Sibelius 6 now), but in 1980, I did see the play by Caryl Brahms and Ned Sherrin in London with Timothy West starring. It was hilarious and made much of his love for Delius.


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

I have quite a few of Beecham's recordings. My favourite 'Messiah' is still the one by Beecham with the RPO. As has been mentioned, he was a great champion of the music of Delius which I love a great deal. Both Beecham and Delius are buried in the same churchyard at Limpsfield, Surrey.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Some remarks by Shaw:



Hildadam Bingor said:


> https://books.google.com/books?id=B...When+I+entered,+Sir+Thomas+Beecham+struck+up"
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=B...him+as+if+he+were+one+of+the+second+violins."
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=B...t+him+accidentally+into+contact+with+Mozart."


I guess he was probably the world's greatest Delius conductor.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Genoveva said:


> I have quite a few of Beecham's recordings. My *favourite 'Messiah' is still the one by Beecham with the RPO*. As has been mentioned, he was a great champion of the *music of Delius *which I love a great deal. Both Beecham and Delius are buried in the same churchyard at Limpsfield, Surrey.


Careful! The HIP brigade have burned people at the stake for less!

He was of course a personal friend of Delius. The story goes that when rehearsing a piece (without the score) in the presence of the composer, Delius told Beecham a certain note had been played wrong. Beecham disagreed and when they looked it up in the score Tommy was right. At which point Beecham quipped: "Ah, Frederick, dear boy! If only you knew your music as well as I do!"


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

I regard Beecham very highly. In particular his ability to channel the spirit of the piece and the synergy he generated with the orchestras he worked with. He had a way with the music which just felt right - it always flowed naturally as though it could only have been written that way.

Even with Beethoven whom he didn't regard as highly as most, he brought a vitality and spirit which equal or exceed in some cases some of the more famous Beethovenian counterparts. His recording of the Second Symphony is up with Klemperer's and Skrowaczewski's in my estimation. His Seventh is excellent and his Ninth is really interesting too. I still haven't heard his recording of the Mass in C but if it is anything near his recording of Handel's Messiah it will be on this list.

His recording of Grieg's Peer Gynt with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra leaps to mind very quickly as a standout as do his recordings of Haydn's London Symphonies and 'The Seasons' with the same ensemble. I adore his recordings of Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique, Bizet's Symphony in C and Liszt's Faust Symphony.

Likewise, his grasp of Mozart, Sibelus, Schubert and Richard Strauss is incredible and his recordings of Puccini's La Boheme and Bizet's Carmen are also remarkable.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Without remembering the exact wording, I think he counseled that people who coughed during concerts would benefit by the gentle application of a warm steam roller to their throats.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Anyone who likes Russian music should try to hear, if they haven't already, Beecham's classic recording of "Sheherazade".


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Regarding Delius as a conductor, Beecham is alleged to have said something like
"I have seen good conductors, I have seen bad conductors, but seldom have I seen such incompetence as old Fred at the podium".


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