# James Webb Space Telescope



## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

James Webb Space Telescope arrives at its destination
January 27, 2022 |


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## KevinW (Nov 21, 2021)

Ariasexta said:


> James Webb Space Telescope arrives at its destination
> January 27, 2022 |


Good. I am studying for Astronomy competitions now. Pretty sure they would put some photos taken by James Webb Telescope in the exam.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

James Webb Space Telescope snaps first images – a star and a selfie 

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A great moment for all the world, but I am a bit worried that Webb would not see as much stars as Hubble does on near Earth orbit. I suspect that many stars can be visible at all when moved further from the gravitational influence of Earth. Stars probably need gravitational lens to be visible, as well as an EM field. Just my assumption. If no stars to see there, please feel free to move back toward near Earth orbit. (Maybe Webb is trying to look for some other things than those tasked for Hubble.)


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> James Webb Space Telescope snaps first images - a star and a selfie
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> A great moment for all the world, but I am a bit worried that Webb would not see as much stars as Hubble does on near Earth orbit. I suspect that many stars can be visible at all when moved further from the gravitational influence of Earth. Stars probably need gravitational lens to be visible, as well as an EM field. Just my assumption. If no stars to see there, please feel free to move back toward near Earth orbit. (Maybe Webb is trying to look for some other things than those tasked for Hubble.)


I don't know, but it has probably already locked onto its pointer stars for the many alignments.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Ariasexta said:


> James Webb Space Telescope snaps first images - a star and a selfie
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> A great moment for all the world, but I am a bit worried that Webb would not see as much stars as Hubble does on near Earth orbit. I suspect that many stars can be visible at all when moved further from the gravitational influence of Earth. Stars probably need gravitational lens to be visible, as well as an EM field. Just my assumption. If no stars to see there, please feel free to move back toward near Earth orbit. (Maybe Webb is trying to look for some other things than those tasked for Hubble.)


I estimate this spacecraft is about 50 feet across, judging from a photo I saw of it in the hanger with humans working around it. 
The Selfie:


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I searched through the NGC objects nearby our galaxy(within 100 million ly radius with Sun at the center), found that we are quite nicely crowded with many large and bright neighbours(A very warm community). But it might not always mean that we are a young galaxy family compared to those that are very far away, because we have M87 as our host galaxy to all local families which is a also a very aged galaxy.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> I don't know, but it has probably already locked onto its pointer stars for the many alignments.


Gold coating of Webb glasses is meant to absorb more infrared lights but not that the colors should only be monochrome, even Hubble pictures are all repainted into theoretical colors by computer algorithms. So the golden glasses should be able to show colorful pictures as well, wait and see what will happen to their coming pictures.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Gold coating of Webb glasses is meant to absorb more infrared lights but not that the colors should only be monochrome, even Hubble pictures are all repainted into theoretical colors by computer algorithms. So the golden glasses should be able to show colorful pictures as well, wait and see what will happen to their coming pictures.


You don't think they should paint with specific colors? I've heard this complaint before online.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> I searched through the NGC objects nearby our galaxy(within 100 million ly radius with Sun at the center), found that we are quite nicely crowded with many large and bright neighbours(A very warm community). But it might not always mean that we are a young galaxy family compared to those that are very far away, because we have M87 as our host galaxy to all local families which is a also a very aged galaxy.


You think M87 is much older than our galaxy? That doesn't sound right to me, but I'm not up to date.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> You think M87 is much older than our galaxy? That doesn't sound right to me, but I'm not up to date.


Elliptic galaxies are those formed from merging several spiral ones like our own, of course they are much older.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Elliptic galaxies are those formed from merging several spiral ones like our own, of course they are much older.


From what I can find from good sources;

MW 13.6 billion years

M87 13.3

M31 10.1


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

> M87 13.3


Exactly to say, 13.3 billion years ago, two or more older galaxie merged into M87.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

eljr said:


> I estimate this spacecraft is about 50 feet across, judging from a photo I saw of it in the hanger with humans working around it.
> The Selfie:


You met the glass angel then. Any hypothesis about its Hexagonal formation? It looks somehow metaphysical than scientifical-- the golden hexagon.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Ariasexta said:


> You met the glass angel then. *Any hypothesis about its Hexagonal formation?* It looks somehow metaphysical than scientifical-- the golden hexagon.


My guess, to provide stability, strength. Rather straight forward.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

eljr said:


> My guess, to provide stability, strength. Rather straight forward.


Nice explanation, as the size that large, hexagonal structure could provide some rigor to resist the extreme cold in the space, I heard that the telescope would endure a rapid change in temperature at its initial placement in the orbit. The design is still stunning in terms of elegance and beauty.,

Golden coating could be a means to resist material degradation by deep space radiation and letting in more visible lights:

_Although sheets of gold are not used to cover entire satellite bodies, real gold is in fact used on some satellite components. From vapor-deposited gold taping to gold coating, gold is used because of its multiple benefits in outer space. Gold helps protect against corrosion from ultraviolet light and x-rays and acts as a reliable and long lasting electrical contact in onboard electronics.

Gold is also used by NASA in the construction of spacesuits. Because of its excellent ability to reflect infrared light while letting in visible light, astronauts' visors have a thin layer of gold on them to protect their eyes from unfiltered sunlight._

--As Good As Gold: Are Satellites Covered in Gold Foil?


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Ariasexta said:


> You met the glass angel then. Any hypothesis about its Hexagonal formation? It looks somehow metaphysical than scientifical-- the golden hexagon.


The shape might well have something to do with collimation too. The mirrors might be adaptive in the sense that each individual segment can be minutely adjusted for perfect focus. So called adaptive mirrors/optics are used on some ground based scopes to nullify atmospheric turbulence in order to steady the image.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

mikeh375 said:


> The shape might well have something to do with collimation too. The mirrors might be adaptive in the sense that each individual segment can be minutely adjusted for perfect focus. So called adaptive mirrors/optics are used on some ground based scopes to nullify atmospheric turbulence in order to steady the image.


So does it mean each individual glass can adjust itself in angles to focus on the object, I think it might a bit complicated in terms of optics; if each individual piece can focus and take picture on itself, then does it means scientists have to find a perfect picture from all 18 pieces taken of the same objects or even to take repeatedly with different glasses to select or forge a perfect image from the whole collection? Or maybe can these individual glasses also work as a whole piece of glass to collect more lights to make clearer images? If to see distant targets only, the former function would seem unnecessary, maybe separate glasses can be used as power salvage purpose when lesser projects are at hand? maybe even multi-tasking?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

mikeh375 said:


> The shape might well have something to do with collimation too. The mirrors might be adaptive in the sense that each individual segment can be minutely adjusted for perfect focus. So called adaptive mirrors/optics are used on some ground based scopes to nullify atmospheric turbulence in order to steady the image.


Good thought but would shape make a differance?

Any shape could be made adjustable, no?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Ariasexta said:


> So does it mean each individual glass can adjust itself in angles to focus on the object, I think it might a bit complicated in terms of optics; if each individual piece can focus and take picture on itself, then does it means scientists have to find a perfect picture from all 18 pieces taken of the same objects or even to take repeatedly with different glasses to select or forge a perfect image from the whole collection? Or maybe can these individual glasses also work as a whole piece of glass to collect more lights to make clearer images? If to see distant targets only, the former function would seem unnecessary, maybe separate glasses can be used as power salvage purpose when lesser projects are at hand? maybe even multi-tasking?


But your question spoke to the shape. I don't see any of this being shape dependent. Is it and I am missing it? I am not a student of such things so it's certainly possible.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I'm surprised that no one has attempted to launch a satellite that orbits the moon, or perhaps Mars or Venus.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

pianozach said:


> I'm surprised that no one has attempted to launch a satellite that orbits the moon, or perhaps Mars or Venus.


Also surprising is although China has a rover Yutu II(Jade rabbit II) on the moon for 2 years still I have only seen no more than 2-3 pictures taken by it so far, never expect anything better from China in terms of information transparency, they do not even bother to photoshop to publish, they just completely keep away from people.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

eljr said:


> But your question spoke to the shape. I don't see any of this being shape dependent. Is it and I am missing it? I am not a student of such things so it's certainly possible.


Hexagonal shape being better for collimation is new to me, but, it might be the best next to round shape. To adjust in different angles and directions in separate pieces while keeping the seams togather as much as possible, given to divide a whole circular disc in equal parts can not be smaller circles, if not octogonal then it must be hexagonal. The hexagonal design can be taken as a result of optimal segmenting of a collimation lens which would be circular, for the purpose of individual functions in collimation and adjustments both as separate and coordinated operations with other pieces.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

pianozach said:


> I'm surprised that no one has attempted to launch a satellite that orbits the moon, or perhaps Mars or Venus.


for the purpose of?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> I'm surprised that no one has attempted to launch a satellite that orbits the moon, or perhaps Mars or Venus.





eljr said:


> for the purpose of?


Because it's there?

Curiosity?

To map potential landing sites?

To study the stars without atmospheric pollution of images?

Spectral analyisis to locate possible resources?

To sell HD photos to the public?

To push technology to its limits?


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Ariasexta said:


> So does it mean each individual glass can adjust itself in angles to focus on the object, I think it might a bit complicated in terms of optics; if each individual piece can focus and take picture on itself, then does it means scientists have to find a perfect picture from all 18 pieces taken of the same objects or even to take repeatedly with different glasses to select or forge a perfect image from the whole collection? Or maybe can these individual glasses also work as a whole piece of glass to collect more lights to make clearer images? If to see distant targets only, the former function would seem unnecessary, maybe separate glasses can be used as power salvage purpose when lesser projects are at hand? maybe even multi-tasking?


Adaptive mirrors are used to focus light from objects to a single point where imaging takes place. Ground based adaptive optics are quite remarkable in that they are constantly in computer controlled motion.

@Zach.. There have been imaging satellitites put in orbit around Mars, the Moon and Venus.

https://mars.nasa.gov/mro/
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/clementine.html
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/missions/pioneer-venus-1/in-depth/


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

eljr said:


> Good thought but would shape make a differance?
> 
> Any shape could be made adjustable, no?


I'm no real expert eljr, just an amateur astronomer so I'm not sure about shape implications. Adaptive optics are more about alignment of mirrors and their flexibility to changing conditions in order to focus an image. This is done on Earth with the aid of lasers.

In the case of the JWT perhaps the hexagon shape was decided upon as the best way to furl and unfurl the mirror system as much as being used for good collimation. One could imagine a sturdier linkage and structure being attainable on unfurling from a hexagon as opposed to a circular shape. Ground based scopes use circular lens from what I've seen in diagrams, although I'm not sure as to the actual shape of the plane of the mirror, ie concave, convex etc.
Still just speculating here....


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

mikeh375 said:


> Adaptive mirrors are used to focus light from objects to a single point where imaging takes place. Ground based adaptive optics are quite remarkable in that they are constantly in computer controlled motion.
> 
> @Zach.. There have been imaging satellitites put in orbit around Mars, the Moon and Venus.
> 
> ...


There is no much specifications available online now, wiki is not accessible from china, although not always reliable but always resourceful. One more apparent reason for segmenting is the size, we could not be able to polish a whole piece of glass of that size, but feasible for making from smaller ones and then assemble into one. Hexagons are ideal design for this cause. Each glass taking pictures independently might has been a make-up-for-it for such a design as forced by technological feasibility of making a lens that large. But obviously, giving the size of the whole piece and the number of glasses and seamlessness of assemblage, the entire body of glasses shall be able to function as good as a circular whole piece of somewhat smaller size.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

^^ the mirrors do not take pictures, they reflect light (infrared and visible) to a secondary mirror which then reflects it to a focal point for the scientific instruments. My guess is that the hexagons are adaptive i.e. adjustable for collimation/maintenance purposes only as I can't see a need to adjust them in space once aligned. NASA does however say that the hexagons are 'deployable'.

The arrangement of mirrors looks a lot like the Schmitt-Cassegrain arrangement which is what I have in my scope with the focal point just behind the centre of the primary mirror.

https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

After reading the above link I feel the shape as a whole piece and individual glasses was a result of the imaging algorithm.



> The team developed and demonstrated the algorithms using a 1/6th scale model telescope testbed. They have simulated and rehearsed the process many times and are now ready to do this with Webb.


But I am still a bit confused, if not considering the difficulty in polishing a whole large piece of glass, is this algorithm really necessary? what is the 10 billion for this whole defocused pictures and computer reworking. They do not explain the whole thing, this algorithm is too circumventing for just analyzing some faint distant lights, even imaging is a rework, if no better details in forthcoming pictures, more questions will go for the big budget.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Have a little faith AriaS, they know what they are doing, they are not idiots but some of the best in the world in their respective fields. Space is not without risk but everything to do with JWST from conception to build is high quality.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

If the main imaging process is dependent on defocused stack, this is the same principle of digital cameras, even the segments can be roughly compared to pixels on a CMOS sensor or on LED displayers. But, not a bad design after all.

I do realize the sensor is in the front now, gold can reflect infrared lights but what a waste using such mirror only to see infrareds, gold coated glass can also detect many other wavelengths of light in high resolution worthy of astronomical observation. But judging from the level of coating on Webb, the main target is still infrared lights, so I just have doubt that such algorithm is that suitable for infrared objects, hexagons are a good design for infrared, but it still seems to be more than just an algorithmic design, infrared is delicate, treating it with STACKING computer reworking is a bit like eating russian caviar with chewing gum. If I were to design, I would make a huge concave golden mirror, the more reflected infrared the better, just more lights please, concavity can collect more infrared, if necessary, putting two or several more onto the orbit.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

mikeh375 said:


> Have a little faith AriaS, they know what they are doing, they are not idiots but some of the best in the world in their respective fields. Space is not without risk but everything to do with JWST from conception to build is high quality.


I complained they do not explain well. I believe Webb telescope is more than they have explained so far.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Making up for a perfect concavity so they try to use each segment to adjust individually and still defocused, if the algorithm has to go for complex operations it means more power is necessary. This is so complex and technologically strange, read and dont you think it is more like a tracker of something in vicinity rather than faint and distant stars and galaxies.



> *One by one*, we will move the 18 mirror segments to determine which segment creates which segment image. After matching the mirror segments to their respective images, we can tilt the mirrors to bring all the images near a common point for further analysis. We call this arrangement an "image array."
> 
> 2. Segment Alignment
> 
> ...


The information is interesting, each segment can work or mean to work individually. The term of the "correctness" is also unexplained, what is the term of correctness of 18 pieces individually to work as in perfect alignment and still not as one.

The alignment is not temporary, but meant to be routine.



> 7. Iterate Alignment for Final Correction
> 
> After applying the Field of View correction, the key thing left to address is the removal of any small, residual positioning errors in the primary mirror segments. We measure and make corrections using the Fine Phasing process. We will do a final check of the image quality across each of the science instruments; once this is verified, the wavefront sensing and controls process will be complete.
> 
> As we go through the seven steps, we may find that we need to iterate earlier steps as well. The process is flexible and modular to allow for iteration. After roughly three months of aligning the telescope, we will be ready to proceed to commissioning the instruments."


They never say alignment will never be repeated, note that each segment can function individually, they do not make this function of adjusting within 50 nanometre accuracy just to play it once. They do value the delicacy of infrereds to the point of engineering such complex systems of alignment and algorithm. I am sorry that I meant only to see distant galaxies not considering nearby objects, this was my fault:tiphat: But, in spite of many mysteries, very nice engineering marvel.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Amazing then, it seems Webb will not only be able to see distant galaxies but also asteroids, meteors, many obscure objects beside us.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

pianozach said:


> I'm surprised that no one has attempted to launch a satellite that orbits the moon, or perhaps Mars or Venus.


Seems there might be a satellite of sorts, although not an intentional or useful one, orbiting the moon:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...may still be orbiting the moon—or it exploded.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Ariasexta said:


> You met the glass angel then. Any hypothesis about its Hexagonal formation? It looks somehow metaphysical than scientifical-- the golden hexagon.


From jest.nas.gov:



> The hexagonal shape allows for a roughly circular, segmented mirror with "high filling factor and six-fold symmetry." High filling factor means the segments fit together without gaps. If the segments were circular, there would be gaps between them. Symmetry is good because there need only be 3 different optical prescriptions for 18 segments, 6 of each (see above right diagram). Finally, a roughly circular overall mirror shape is desired because that focuses the light into the most compact region on the detectors. A oval mirror, for example, would give images that are elongated in one direction. A square mirror would send a lot of the light out of the central region.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

You can look at the site for the diagram, but it's of course grouped based on the distance of the center of each hexagon from the origin.

I work with a bunch of engineers who are very passionate about what they do and many of whom take on science projects (including in the field of astronomy) as a hobby. As you can imagine, the James Webb sparked a lot of discussion.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> From jest.nas.gov:


*jwst.nas.gov

jhshcudueheu


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> You can look at the site for the diagram, but it's of course grouped based on the distance of the center of each hexagon from the origin.
> 
> I work with a bunch of engineers who are very passionate about what they do and many of whom take on science projects (including in the field of astronomy) as a hobby. As you can imagine, the James Webb sparked a lot of discussion.


I was fascinated with looking at the sky so much that I would not live in large cities, for sky is opaque.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

> Finally, a roughly circular overall mirror shape is desired because that focuses the light into the most compact region on the detectors. A oval mirror, for example, would give images that are elongated in one direction. A square mirror would send a lot of the light out of the central region.


In short symmetry of the overall design will optimize the reflection of light unto the detector. Hexagon is such a wonderful shape, it is also on Saturn`s north pole as a storm formation. I feel a bit mesmerized by this shape, my avatar is hindu-buddhist sign of wisdom, a bit similar to the Webb mirror. :lol:


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Exactly to say, 13.3 billion years ago, two or more older galaxie merged into M87.


Yes, the large galaxies received large collisions early on. So did our MW.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> Yes, the large galaxies received large collisions early on. So did our MW.


Ell galaxies are strange things, there two small ell galaxies already orbiting Andromeda which is onto collision with Milky in 100 million years. One is M110, another is smaller I forgot the name.
(I found the name of the second, M32)


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> Ell galaxies are strange things, there two small ell galaxies already orbiting Andromeda which is onto collision with Milky in 100 million years. One is M110, another is smaller I forgot the name.
> (I found the name of the second, M32)


I don't know if this is the current consensus of understanding, but 10 or 15 years ago it was discovered that dwarf galaxies have a lot more Dark Matter, for their size, than was expected. How could this happen? This seemed to indicate that they were much older (from back during a time when Dark Matter was everywhere well-distributed) and confirmed the view that dwarf galaxies came together to form the first average-sized galaxies, ..and this process is continuing to this day. It also indicates how VERY young this universe is, compared to its expected lifetime and its maturing clusterings.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> I don't know if this is the current consensus of understanding, but 10 or 15 years ago it was discovered that dwarf galaxies have a lot more Dark Matter, for their size, than was expected. How could this happen? This seemed to indicate that they were much older (from back during a time when Dark Matter was everywhere well-distributed) and confirmed the view that dwarf galaxies came together to form the first average-sized galaxies, ..and this process is continuing to this day. It also indicates how VERY young this universe is, compared to its expected lifetime and its maturing clusterings.


I remember dark matter is used to explain the irregularities of universal galactic movements in the light of classical cosmology, where blackhole is the largest gravitational pull of all the universe. But this is not true according to actual observations. There comes this theory. As to the nature of dark matter is not yet clear, there is also no consistent model of it, they attempt to define it with temperatural and quantum characteristics, temperatural mathematical models have some magics to it as it can be used to construct many imaginative status of the universe like entropy--this is a very controversial philosophical idea that have many mathematical formulations. Quantum is already exposed by me as a pure random process of approximation toward almost any possible outcome dictated by people using statistical methods. Entropy is the philosophical and mathematical component that quantum mechanics collaborate with to try to explain the dark matter. You will notice that heat method has been used by Perelman to prove Poincare`s conjecture, therefore, heat or entropy has a lot of pure math/statistical roles to play. But actually speaking, either the symmetry and irregularities observed in the whole universe are never consistently explained. They are trying to unify Classical Mechanics with Quantum Mechanics through dark matter in cosmology, scientifically not very attractive as contradictory to their Beautiful Science belief. I do not feel any elegance from this idea.



> > Aesthetic considerations can guide theory choice in situations of under-determination of theory by the data, leading to the adoption of one empirically adequate theory over another. Ernst Mach's principle of 'economy of thought', for example, is one such methodological application of simplicity as a heuristic guide to empirically adequate theories. Beauty is also often taken to stand in a special epistemic link to truth. Many scientists argue that a beautiful theory is more likely to be true. *Paul Dirac famously defended beauty's special epistemic role, claiming that 'one has a great confidence in the theory arising from its great beauty, quite independent of its detailed successes'.* Such ideas are present in contemporary science as much as they were part of debates in the early twentieth century, but how can such a link between beauty and truth be justified?


--Aesthetics in Science
Milena Ivanova
Ludwig Maximilians University of Munich

Can you feel any beauty from prevalent nuclear powerplants? from smogs? prodigal waste of power？ Math bases its ideas on convergence of the integrals but their own practices in science do not know where to converge.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

There is nothing controversial or imaginative about the Second Law of Thermodynamics ASexta. I don't understand the connection you are making between entropy and dark matter, which is believed to be a particle of some sort.
Unification of Quantum and Relativity is being sought in string theory, not dark matter so far as I know. Can you cite any reference material that corroborates your post. As I understand it, unification has been found in 10 dimensions thanks to supersymmetry (?), but it's been a while since I read about this so I might be in error.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

mikeh375 said:


> There is nothing controversial or imaginative about the Second Law of Thermodynamics ASexta. I don't understand the connection you are making between entropy and dark matter.
> Unification of Quantum and Relativity is being sought in string theory, not dark matter so far as I know. Can you cite any reference material that corroborates your post. As I understand it, unification has been found in 10 dimensions thanks to supersymmetry, but it's been a while since I read about this.


Supersymmetry is what is costing astronomical amount of power to experiment, ugly. 


> We show that the concept of entropy and the dynamics of gravitation provide the linchpin in a unified scheme to understand the physics of black hole computers, spacetime foam, dark energy, dark matter and the phenomenon of turbulence. We use three different methods to estimate the foaminess of spacetime, which, in turn, provides a back-door way to derive the Bekenstein-Hawking formula for black hole entropy and the holographic principle. Generalizing the discussion for a static spacetime region to the cosmos, we find a component of dark energy (resembling an effective positive cosmological constant of the correct magnitude) in the current epoch of the universe. The conjunction of entropy and gravitation is shown to give rise to a phenomenological model of dark matter, revealing the natural emergence, in galactic and cluster dynamics, of a critical acceleration parameter related to the cosmological constant; the resulting mass profiles are consistent with observations. Unlike ordinary matter, the quanta of the dark sector are shown to obey infinite statistics. This property of dark matter may lead to some non-particle phenomenology and may explain why dark matter particles have not been detected in dark matter search experiments. We also show that there are deep similarities between the problem of "quantum gravity" (more specifically, the holographic spacetime foam) and turbulence.


 Entropy and Gravitation-From Black Hole Computers to Dark Energy and Dark Matter

I can not access to the full paper though, but dark matter math is based on heat equations and heat equations are the foundation of entropy theory. Of course dark matter can be a potential agent of unification. Relativities have to be based on blackhole theory and Einstein in his late age had recognized that blackholes might not exist. But,,pure math has its fun so I am not going headlong for whatever the truth. I just wanna cut the exploitations on nature.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

....what the hell is a black hole computer, do Apple make 'em, they certainly charge enough for their PC's and create black holes in accounts.  What are infinite statistics? And who wrote the paper?


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

> Comments: 23 pages; LaTeX; invited review paper; typos corrected; references added
> Subjects: General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc); High Energy Physics - Theory (hep-th); Quantum Physics (quant-ph)
> Cite as: arXiv:1910.00040 [gr-qc]
> (or arXiv:1910.00040v2 [gr-qc] for this version)
> ...


"Entropy and Gravitation-From Black Hole Computers to Dark Energy and Dark Matter"

I am afraid of copyright issues so I must not quote any material from that paper. It appears that the full paper can be read on arxiv, blackhole computer is not an actual computer but using blackholes as a factor for computing the universal space-time. PDF: page 6th from the first paragraph untill the end of the page.

Interesting read, do not need to worry about the formulae you will be missing a lot of meat and spices, just read whatever you can understand.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Infinite Statistics is the nickname of Boltzmann statistics:
_
Boltzmann statistics is a special case of Gibbs statistics - the canonical ensemble for a gas consisting of non-interacting particles. The Boltzmann statistics is the limit case of Fermi-Dirac statistics and Bose-Einstein statistics at sufficiently-high temperatures, when quantum effects can be neglected.

The Boltzmann statistics was proposed by L. Boltzmann in 1868-1871. _

Also a part of thermodynamics, it is surely obvious statistics dominate high energy physics.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I am not saying entropy is wrong, far from that, I just do not believe in endless wasting energy just to prove something. Entropy, Quantum mechanics need to settle to praticality in economic energies and transparency in ethical conducts, Dark matter is s great revelation and putting in this thread is fully justified because Webb telescope can also be used to detect dark matter as well. 
_
What will the James Webb Space Telescope reveal to us about dark matter?

By Chelsea Gohd published December 20, 2021 _
_
The James Webb Space Telescope could help to solve the pressing mysteries of dark matter.

Dark matter is a mysterious, invisible form of matter that is thought to make up about 27% of the known universe, outweighing visible matter about six to one. Still, despite making up a considerable chunk of the universe, it has eluded our understanding since its existence was first suggested in 1933 by Fritz Zwicky, a Swiss-American astronomer. To date, dark matter has never been directly detected.

While the James Webb Space Telescope cannot directly "see" dark matter, scientists think that by measuring the effects it has on its surrounding, Webb could answer some major questions about dark matter. This, in turn, would greatly advance our knowledge of the universe at large.

Scientists don't know exactly what dark matter is made of, and they are still working out a way to detect it directly. Currently, scientists are developing such methods with experiments at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research. Unlike these experiments, Webb won't be able to detect dark matter directly, but it can study its effects on normal, visible matter.

"When you observe dark matter, you have to sort of always go in a roundabout way because you can't see it. But Webb does have the capability to try and get at that in new, orthogonal ways, looking at the dynamics of galaxies," Klaus Pontoppidan, a project scientist at the Space Telescope Science Institute, told Space.com in a news conference in May.

For example, as a "roundabout" method of detecting dark matter, astronomers can use existing technologies to measure how much mass is in stars and galaxies. Some of the main evidence for the existence of dark matter is that many galaxies could not exist and move as they do without a large amount of invisible mass.

To help astronomers more precisely locate that dark matter, Webb will take extremely sharp images in which researchers will be able to observe disturbances caused by gravitational lensing, pointing them to where the invisible mass is lurking. Gravitational lensing is a phenomenon described by Einstein's general theory of relativity. With this phenomenon, when a light beam passes a large mass, it will be slightly deflected as the fabric of spacetime is slightly curved by the mass.

Image Gallery: Dark matter across the universe
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In imaging distant galaxies, Webb can find these masses and determine what's "missing," or not observable, which would then likely be dark matter. "Webb will be particularly well-suited for this type of measurement, because its very sharp images will allow very small disturbances to be measured, and because it can see so deep into space, giving it access to many more background galaxies to measure disturbances caused by this gravitational lensing effect," according to a NASA fact sheet about Webb.

"Also, Webb will observe many statistics of galaxy evolution," the fact sheet adds, "and scientists can compare these observations to theories of the role that dark matter played in that process, leading to some understanding of the amount and nature of the dark matter in galaxies."
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Webb is designed to see farther into space than we've ever seen before, which will also allow it to see farther back in time. By making these observations so deep into space, Webb will be able to study the early beginnings of the universe and its galaxies, and the role that dark matter may have played in their evolution.

Scientists continue to work to understand when the universe's early galaxies formed, Pontoppidan said. The processes involved in this formation are "driven by dark matter evolution models, putting different parameters on the first galaxies at different times."

Pontoppidan added that Webb can be used to measure some of the basic parameters of those first galaxies in the universe and allow us to understand their luminosity, mass distribution and much more.

Webb is set to launch on Dec. 24, 2021 atop an Arianespace Ariane 5 rocket from Europe's Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana.

Email Chelsea Gohd at [email protected] or follow her on Twitter @chelsea_gohd. Follow us on Twitter @Spacedotcom and on Facebook._

Entropy is a great revelation as well, and the thermodynamical methods also contain profound relationship with pure mathematics and cosmology also Quantum mechanics, as a branch of classical mechanics. Heat phenomena is surely more than 
vibrating molecules as most of time people consider it to be. The heat holds some key to great mysteries. But again, we need to stop profuse wastes of resources and energies in the name of science.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

mikeh375 said:


> There is nothing controversial or imaginative about the Second Law of Thermodynamics ASexta. I don't understand the connection you are making between entropy and dark matter, which is believed to be a particle of some sort.
> Unification of Quantum and Relativity is being sought in string theory, not dark matter so far as I know. Can you cite any reference material that corroborates your post. As I understand it, unification has been found in 10 dimensions thanks to supersymmetry (?), but it's been a while since I read about this so I might be in error.


I think the 10th spatial dimension was used to unify gravity and the 3 forces, but it's only a mathematical solution.

I speculate wildly that Dark Matter isn't peculiar or exotic, but what's peculiar is OUR probing with EM. That's what's rare inside universes (if we look at the big picture, instead of just our freak of a universe with so much of what we call 'normal matter'.).


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Collimation is coming along nicely......









https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/02/webb-telescope-reaches-major-milestone-all-its-light-is-in-one-place/


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I wonder if the Webb photos are going to be as abstract as the blackhole photo and these 2 first photos all the time or like legible Hubble photos in later adjustments? If all photos are going to be like impressionist representations of some captured infrareds then the hurdle for many popular interests would be very high then and the official interpretation will weight a lot to highlight the features that are hidden and not legible for common readers.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> I wonder if the Webb photos are going to be as abstract as the blackhole photo and these 2 first photos all the time or like legible Hubble photos in later adjustments? If all photos are going to be like impressionist representations of some captured infrareds then the hurdle for many popular interests would be very high then and the official interpretation will weight a lot to highlight the features that are hidden and not legible for common readers.


Yes, it's the data that's gathered and it can be enhanced in many ways.

It's possible that an advanced group of aliens might come around and steal our JWST. That would get the attention of humans!

How would that affect you and others in here?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The Hubble photos, edited, were spectacular. But I'd think that perhaps the general public can feel a certain fatigue after having been presented with the first 100 galaxies photos. It will be real nouveautes, very special phenomena, planets and generally sensational, accompanying scientific discoveries, that will stimulate interest in the new pictures series.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> The Hubble photos, edited, were spectacular. But I'd think that perhaps the general public can feel a certain fatigue after having been presented with the first 100 galaxies photos. It will be real nouveautes, very special phenomena, planets and generally sensational, accompanying scientific discoveries, that will stimulate interest in the new pictures series.


I have a silly suspicion running through my mind that these very expensive projects are a result of our professed ignorance of what's out there and the need to be more and more sure about what might be dangerous to planet Earth. It might not be possible to know but we're trying.

Do you know if there's ever been a public statement about this from governments? The universe might be a very scary place for us - we just don't know.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> Yes, it's the data that's gathered and it can be enhanced in many ways.
> 
> It's possible that an advanced group of aliens might come around and steal our JWST. That would get the attention of humans!
> 
> How would that affect you and others in here?


I know strange happenings have been a norm in space, alien attack is nothing more surprising than the current Ukraine, just a problem of hostility or friendship. Ontological shock thing is a joke, JWST is a modern and international scientific observatory and its relevance to other fields does not expand into further aspects of human life whether it got kidnapped by aliens. But after all, I know it would be delusional to take dark matter overtly magical, it is possible that human science can still come around without borrowing magical concepts and it is goal of modern science, to interprete everything as computable, logical, statistical. 
I am not against this ideal, although I would take another direction which is neither spiritual nor scientifical, anything can become magical when a person sees his own magic. I am interested to see how far JWST and this computable science can go.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Luchesi said:


> I have a silly suspicion running through my mind that these very expensive projects are a result of our professed ignorance of what's out there and the need to be more and more sure about what might be dangerous to planet Earth..


There's a lot more dangerous to planet earth coming from sources on planet earth, especially right now, than anything coming from space.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

My blog theories serve as a solution to all ontological shocks, we need to calm down and think whatever happens: we are human beings, all we can do is to retain this humanity whatever happens. Only in this way, we can always become truly better.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

joen_cph said:


> The Hubble photos, edited, were spectacular. But I'd think that perhaps the general public can feel a certain fatigue after having been presented with the first 100 galaxies photos. It will be real nouveautes, very special phenomena, planets and generally sensational, accompanying scientific discoveries, that will stimulate interest in the new pictures series.


I never get bored with Hubble photos, I saved a lot of them from the internet. Hubble has achieved a phenomenal scientifical and artistical wonder. In the past months, chinese media misrepresented JWST as the successor to Hubble but this is totally wrong as I have learned recently, JWST and Hubble are working on two distinctively different agendas in terms of technological and theoretical specifications.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

The latest Webb picture has come.
_
New James Webb image exceeds 'most optimistic prediction'
March 19, 2022

The James Webb Space Telescope's mirrors are now aligned and scientists are very impressed with the result.
The next-generation telescope arrived at its destination back in January and has since been undergoing a six-month commissioning process to get it ready for general use.

As evidenced by the photograph above, one part of this process - the alignment of its 18 hexagonal beryllium mirrors so that they function as one - has now been completed successfully.

The image, which shows a star roughly 2,000 light years away, exhibits an exceptional level of sharpness indicating that the telescope is performing even better than scientists had expected.

"You not only see the star and the spikes from the diffraction of the star, but you see other stars in the field that are tightly focused, just like we expect, and all sorts of other interesting structure in the background," said engineer Lee Feinberg._

Wonderful resolution and picture showing interesting backgrounds to the central object. The infrared spectrum means to be a bit darker than other lights but as you can see from the picture, distant galaxies showing up behind the star which is only 2000 ly away from us. You will not see such components in pictures of other sort of pictures except frok infrared, probably because of the generally lacking interference in this low frequency spectrum anything weaker would be almost invisible. However, X rays and Gamma rays are too strong to be seen by naked eyes too.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Some Hubble pictures of distant galaxies also show foreground stars in our vicinity, but they are not focal objects...With distant galaxies in the background showed with clear structures and a star in the focus within our galaxy is probably only to be seen in Webb pictures.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I will share some of my own aphorisms here too, all my instant flashes, to highlight the intensity(originality not guaranteed, if predecents exist, you are welcomed to alert me). 

"Some knowledges only meant for sharing between yourself and God, each person should have some little, beautiful aeternal secrets."


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

So beautiful, my goodness. Thanks Webbael the angel. 

See and have the picture of 2048X960. 

My internet life comes down to this moment for these 24 years.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

The Ocean of Roses.

Imbued with the color of dusk and dawn, 
Shines above the pinnacle of Horus`s crown.
You aeternal Light of all,
That penetrates all inanimate ashes`pall.
Animating, blessing, breathing them into a new life with your fallen petals,
Leading them all come togather to the aeternal moment of revivals.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> So beautiful, my goodness. Thanks Webbael the angel.
> 
> See and have the picture of 2048X960.
> 
> My internet life comes down to this moment for these 24 years.


What's the best URL for pictures?


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> What's the best URL for pictures?


I do not how to post URL or links here but search this title:

"New Webb Telescope Is Higher Than We Thought Says NASA As It Focuses Completely On A Star For The First Time."


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

This is my wall-paper now.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

On a related note, I found this picture on another site and thought I'd plop it here. The sphere represents the sun and the blue balls inside represent the Earth... and to think our sun isn't particularly large when it comes to stars in the universe.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

What if the size is just an illusion, does it really matter if we can measure it so precise? knowing ourself and knowing the others in measurements and spirits. :tiphat:


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Ariasexta said:


> What if the size is just an illusion, does it really matter if we can measure it so precise? knowing ourself and knowing the others in measurements and spirits. :tiphat:


spirits are funny


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

deleted ggsfgfsdgdgdfgfdgfdgsd


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Luchesi said:


> spirits are funny


In grand occaisions, spirit can be used for a sanctuary sense, a sanctuary of territory, like what most politicians talk about sacred territory. Sanctuaries exist anywhere people pay tributes and respects and love.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Sanctuary is also such a beautiful word too. :angel:


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