# Mahler 7th Symphony



## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Always find when listening to this one, that there are elements of the sixth symphony, especially in the first movement. For that reason, I listen to the sixth and seventh together as its like one symphony instead of two. Anyone else agree?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Me too! My current favorites of the Mahler symphonies, but only with the Andante before the Scherzo in the 6th as the composer instructed his publisher and the symphony was publicly played while he was alive. I find the 6th too top-heavy with turbulence otherwise. It was his wife Alma who meddled with his revised published order years after he died.

My favorite 7th is by Michael Tilson Thomas with the London Symphony Orchestra. This symphony is a cornucopia of ideas and inspiration but very difficult to get to cohesively hang together. Mahler’s genius running on all 8 cylinders! 

These two are probably the deepest and darkest symphonies that he wrote, but they are not without light at the end of the tunnel. This man had resilience and it’s one reason why I like him. Deaths, crushing divorce, and illness repeatedly knocked him down, but he always got off the mat! After he was supposedly finished after the 9th, he wrote the 10th and then time simply ran out. I never saw any diminishment of his fantastic imaginative creativity even with his heart problems toward the end of his life—a giant of inspiration so vulnerable and human, and a melodic genius.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The 7th was the first Mahler symphony that really got into my head and soon I was obsessed with it. The Bernstein first recording. I've collected 40+ versions and have heard it live many times. Just can't get enough. When I heard the sixth I was overwhelmed by it, too, and yes - they make a great, natural pairing. There are so many fine recordings of each, and some dogs, too. I especially enjoy listening to them on dark, stormy days for some reason. Given the bad reputation the 7th has, it's interesting how many great conductors have gravitated to it and I suppose for many reasons, not the least is the orchestral wizardry displayed.


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

The 7th has been described as 'phantasmagorical' which I think is a pretty good description of it. I too, like the MTT/LSO recording on RCA. My top preference is Bernstein's DG recording with the NYPO. Nothing wrong with his great Sony recording. The inner movements on the Sony are miraculous. The DG's 1st and 5th movement are powerfully recorded and realized by conductor and orchestra. Lenny had a wonderfully natural feel for this work. It is the one Mahler symphony that reminds me most of Bernstein's own music. It is an old fashioned kind of approach. It's not a modernistic view, which Boulez seems to convey.
The music shape-shifts and go's through so many moods. Klemperer recorded it and it is probably the slowest 7th on record, going well over 90 minutes! 
Another version I like is the Chailly/Concertgebouw. Abbado/CSO is good but a bit too straight for me. After hearing Lenny's take on it, it became tough to sit through the Abbado. Solti takes it as a sort of concerto for orchestra. Great playing, but a bit lacking in atmosphere, which is absolutely essential to this work.
The 5th, 6th and 7th are all linked being that they are all instrumental works that Mahler composed over a period of four or five years, between 1901 and 1905. The 7th had to wait until 1908 for it's premier performance. They comprise the great 'Ruckert' triptych. These three works are two pillars with a top stone, leading us right into the twentieth century.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Well, although I've long considered the Sixth to be among the greatest of symphonies, the Seventh sours my stomach.


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## Donna Elvira (Nov 12, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> Me too! My current favorites of the Mahler symphonies, but only with the Andante before the Scherzo in the 6th as the composer instructed his publisher and the symphony was publicly played while he was alive. I find the 6th too top-heavy with turbulence otherwise. It was his wife Alma who meddled with his revised published order years after he died.
> 
> My favorite 7th is by Michael Tilson Thomas with the London Symphony Orchestra. This symphony is a cornucopia of ideas and inspiration but very difficult to get to cohesively hang together. Mahler's genius running on all 8 cylinders!
> 
> These two are probably the deepest and darkest symphonies that he wrote, but they are not without light at the end of the tunnel. This man had resilience and it's one reason why I like him. Deaths, crushing divorce, and illness repeatedly knocked him down, but he always got off the mat! After he was supposedly finished after the 9th, he wrote the 10th and then time simply ran out. I never saw any diminishment of his fantastic imaginative creativity even with his heart problems toward the end of his life-a giant of inspiration so vulnerable and human, and a melodic genius.


I certainly like the 7th but I will look for a connection between it and the 6th next time when I listen to the two together.
Should find some time, it's not any longer than an average length opera.
The 7th does seem to have a lot of experiments in it, and I love the mystery that certain movements evoke.
I think those elements are well brought out in Bernstein's first rendition, found them lacking in the 2nd rendition so I sold it.

Resilience....it's in the genes, as I wrote to my forum friend the other day (but on a different topic.)


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

To address the original question, rather than my subjective judgment: I don't find their languages to be enough similar. And to posit a connection also sort of means the Sixths tragic inevitability is just a way station towards an eerie triumph, which I can't see Mahler meaning.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Lenny's NYPO is the reference for the atmosphere I feel sure Mahler intended, but I'll put in a word for the Kerstmatinee performance by Haitink with the Concertgebouw. Until I heard it, I never thought about just how much _fun_ it must be to _play_.

A side note: I have no use at all for the final movement. It is the only thing in all of Mahler that I find irredeemable and unlistenable. My suggestion is to drift gently off to sleep with the Nachtmusik II, and then have the first bars of the finale as your alarm clock in the morning. And hit that button pretty damn fast.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

The 7th is wonderful, my favourite Mahler symphony. I agree with Larkenfield that the Michael Tilson Thomas / LSO recording is very special, although there are a couple of others that I rate just as highly and I'm not sure I can choose between them. I love the whole thing all the way through but the end of the first movement and the beginning of the second movement are my personal highlights. The end of the first movement sounds like the end of the world and the beginning of the second with the mournful, echoing horns always sends a shiver down my spine.

I like the 6th as well but had never really considered that there might be a connection between them, I'd always felt the 6th was more sombre and despairing, although with moments of great beauty here and there. I'm not sure I've ever listened to them back to back. I'll give it a go.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Mahler's 3 "middle symphonies are certainly unique and powerful works - I find #s 5 and 6 to be among his very best, with #9 being the pinnacle. but, as with Beethoven - Mahler at his best is near the top of all compositions...
I don't rate #7 as highly, mainly because it is looser structurally...more episodic and choppy - this is esp true of the finale.
The Finale of #5 just flows along so smoothly - yes, there are definitely contrasting sections, but the musical argument unfolds with a wonderful momentum and irresistible logic and direction. The different sections flow so smoothly into the next...the closing section is one of the great sound spectaculars in the symphonic literature, when done well.
#6 is a dark, tragic, even brutal work [Solti/CSO] - gawd, what a beat-down!! but again, the flow, the logic of the musical presentation is quite clear and irresistible.
I had read that Mahler struggled more in composing his #7 - that the ideas and development just didn't come as easily as they did with the preceding 2 symphonies....


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

The 6th has often been called Mahler's greatest symphony by musicologists and scholars because it is structurally true to traditional symphonic form. As long as it is, it's form truly IS uniform to these 'qualifications'. That said, of the three middle symphonies it is the 5th that became the most popular among listeners and concert-goers. For most of the twentieth century, the 7th remained the 'least convincing' of all Mahler's symphonies. Over the past forty years this perception has changed with repetition and familiarity in recordings and concerts. As the Mahler-craze flourished over the years, the 7th is now right up there as a favorite with some listeners.
I read an article in Gramophone magazine from the 1990's that said the 7th was 'nobody's favorite'.
Another article I read, (I can't remember magazine) stated that the 7th was 'Mahler's red headed step-child'. "You may like it but can never love it', another one read. I have never been able to go along with these assessments because when I first heard these three symphonies they all took repeated hearings for me to digest their content. I kept trying though, becoming more fully addicted with each listen."There is something really interesting going on here", I thought. It took a while but now they are as familiar to me as Mozart's Jupiter (Symphony 41) or Beethoven's 7th. A lot of truly great music takes time for a listener to grasp. I can't imagine being without them.


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## gustavdimitri (Nov 7, 2017)

The 7th I most like is the one conducted by Solti, from his cycle.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

For the first three movements, Mahler 7 is packed full of his very finest music, but I share a feeling common here that it loses its way after that, with the second Nachtmusik, or with the Finale, take your pick. I often have a blitz on not just 6, but put in 5 as well, as a trio they seem to share a lot, certainly if set aside 4 or 8.

My favourite recording has to be Claudio Abbado's earlier Chicago recording on DGG, but I also love Haitink's oldest version, Solti's, and the Neumann recording with the Czech Phil. It may not be Mahler's strongest work, but I still love it to bits!

The Klemperer recording on EMI has to be the worst performance of any major symphonic work ever committed to disc!


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Agreed on the Klemperer. Why he thought he understood the 7th but not the 6th is a complete mystery to me.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

In fairness to Klemperer: the middle movements are actually very well done. Beautifully played, well-balanced, tempos seem perfect. The first movement at times is effective enough, but too often the glacial pace just ruins it. And the finale, too, is too slow. It's amazing how few conductors get that finale right, and I'm not so sure Mahler's tempo markings help. Kondrashin with the Concertgebouw nails it like few others have. And Totenfeier asks another unanswerable: why did Klemperer deem the 7th worthy of performance, but he couldn't stand the 1st. His 2nd is greatly overhyped as far as I'm concerned.


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