# Beethoven's contemporaries



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Let's open the thread for discussing all those composers born around the same time as Beethoven - generally those guys younger than Mozart, all the way up to Weber, including him... so, those born from 1756 to 1786. Exploring Hummel inspired me to start this thread.
I've noticed that they are often overlooked, and not well known, except few names like Weber, Rossini and Paganini (though they are still younger than Weber). I am choosing this period because it's transitional and it's interesting to see which alternative ways the music could have evolved if someone different than Beethoven had the prevailing influence.
Also, interesting question is, how different Beethoven was from his contemporaries? Not in sense of merit, but in sense of style, attitude, typology of music... etc. How much he was influenced by them? How much they were influenced by him?
So, from Wikipedia, I have gathered the following names, with a very quick info...

*Joseph Martin Kraus* (1756 - 1792) - The Swedish Mozart
*Ignaz Pleyel* (1757 - 1831) - Wrote the same number of symphonies as Wolfgang. Was very popular in his time; also built pianos.
*Jan Ladislav Dussek* (1760 - 1812) - A Czech who flirted with Romanticism; mainly composed for piano or harp
*Luigi Cherubini* (Beethoven's favorite) - (1760 - 1842) - Mostly wrote operas and sacred music
*Franz Danzi* (1763 - 1826) - some famous woodwind quintets
*Anton Eberl* (1765 - 1807) - Some of his works have been passed as Mozart's
*Samuel Wesley* (1766 - 1837) - The English Mozart
*Anton Reicha* (Great buddy of Ludwig and his exact peer) (1770 - 1836) Explored polyrhythm, polytonality, and microtonality
*Joseph Wölfl* (Beethoven's rival at some point) (1773 - 1812)
*Johann Nepomuk Hummel* (he inspired me to open this thread) (1778 - 1837) - influential as piano teacher, his piano concertos influenced Chopin and Schumman, wrote also for guitar, trumpet, etc.
*Fernando Sor* (1778 - 1839) - was considered the greatest guitarist of his time, wrote a famous ballet too
*Anthony Philip Heinrich* (1781 - 1861) (first full-time American composer)
*Mauro Giuliani* (1781 - 1829) - another guitar virtuoso
*John Field* (1782 - 1837) - influential pianist and teacher - an Irishmen in Russia...
*Daniel Auber* (1782 - 1871) - French operatic composer 
*Louis Spohr* (1784 - 1859) - wrote 9 symphonies, many violin concertos, string quartets... explored historical styles in his 6th symphony
*Carl Maria von Weber* (1786 - 1826) - mainly focused on operas

EDIT
Additions: 
*Étienne Nicolas Méhul (1763 - 1817) * - "the most important opera composer in France during the Revolution".He was also the first composer to be called a "Romantic".
*Bernhard Crusell (1775-1838)* - the most significant and internationally best-known Finnish-born classical composer and indeed, - the outstanding Finnish composer before Sibelius
*Ferdinand Ries (1784 - 1838)* - Ries was a friend, pupil and secretary of Ludwig van Beethoven. He composed eight symphonies, a violin concerto, eight piano concertos, three operas, and numerous other works in many genres, including 26 string quartets.

you can suggest other names too. Any of them your personal favorite? Which music you'd suggest for listening? Which of them is most classical, which most romantic, and which perhaps completely unique, not so influenced by general trends?


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm a member of a wind quintet so I've played a lot of music by Anton Reicha (he wrote a lot of them). For wind quintets, Reicha's are core repertoire. He was really the person who filled the gap of the lack of music for wind instruments at that time. My personal favorite is Op 88 number 2. His life seems interesting as well. For someone to be a lifelong friend of Beethoven is pretty rare.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

ZJovicic said:


> Let's open the thread for discussing all those composers born around the same time as Beethoven - generally those guys younger than Mozart, all the way up to Weber, including him... so, those born from 1756 to 1786. Exploring Hummel inspired me to start this thread.
> I've noticed that they are often overlooked, and not well known, except few names like Weber, Rossini and Paganini (though they are still younger than Weber). I am choosing this period because it's transitional and it's interesting to see which alternative ways the music could have evolved if someone different than Beethoven had the prevailing influence.
> Also, interesting question is, how different Beethoven was from his contemporaries? Not in sense of merit, but in sense of style, attitude, typology of music... etc. How much he was influenced by them? How much they were influenced by him?
> So, from Wikipedia, I have gathered the following names, with a very quick info...
> ...


Étienne Nicolas Méhul (1763 - 1817)

First Symphony (1808) - 4th movement

I understand that Beethoven was familiar with his work - and the similarities to his fifth symphony are obvious.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I would add Finland's Bernhard Crusell (1775-1838) to that list. He composed excellent works for clarinet (concertos and chamber music).

And Ferdinand Ries (1784 - 1838) just gets in. He was a friend, pupil and secretary of Beethoven, but a good composer in his own right (I like his chamber music in particular).


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

ZJovicic said:


> *Carl Maria von Weber* (1786 - 1826) - mainly focused on operas


Some of his orchestral works made it into Rob Cowan's Guiness "top 1000" list, and I agreed with his choices of:

Clarinet concerto No.1
Invitation to the Dance
Oberon overture

In fact I think I'd include more of his works in my top 1000, including all the works on "Weber: The 2 Clarinet Concertos; Concertino; Grand Duo Concertant" by Emma Johnson and English Chamber Orchestra (ASV) It won a Penguin rosette, and quite right to.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Just added them, perhaps we should include anyone older than Schubert? But I wouldn't like to dilute the conversation too much.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Right now listening to Carl Czerny (1791 - 1857) symphony no. 1 and I find it very fine.
He was also Beethoven's pupil and great piano teacher.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Friedrich Kuhlau (known as "the Danish Kuhlau") wrote some really good stuff.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Excellent thread idea! You got me to listen to symphonies by Spohr and Mehul today. Haven't drawn any conclusions yet.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

janxharris said:


> Étienne Nicolas Méhul (1763 - 1817)
> 
> First Symphony (1808) - 4th movement
> 
> I understand that Beethoven was familiar with his work - and the similarities to his fifth symphony are obvious.


Méhul's first symphony has often been compared with Beethoven's fifth and was written in the same year. But any resemblance is a coincidence since Beethoven's fifth had not yet premièred while Méhul was writing, and only Beethoven's first and second symphonies had been published in France at the time.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Méhul's first symphony has often been compared with Beethoven's fifth and was written in the same year. But any resemblance is a coincidence since Beethoven's fifth had not yet premièred while Méhul was writing, and only Beethoven's first and second symphonies had been published in France at the time.


No worries. This one by Ferdinand Ries sounds like it was influenced by Beethoven Fifth (and other works), and he definitely knew his Beethoven. He even used the same number! (5):






In fact, it has many Beethoven mannerisms but not the structural vitality.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

EdwardBast said:


> No worries. This one by Ferdinand Ries sounds like it was influenced by Beethoven Fifth (and other works), and he definitely knew his Beethoven. He even used the same number! (5):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Listening to Ries's Symphony No 5 now. A nice work but hardly in the Ludwig class!

It certainly owes a lot to Beethoven's music, which is hardly surprising. I seem to recall that Beethoven once scolded Ries for writing music too much in the style of his own.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Joachim Nicolas Eggert (1779-1813)

His second symphony

Christoph Ernst Friedrich Weyse (1774-1842)

His first symphony

Gaspare Spontini (1774-1851)

His opera La vestale


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Sloe said:


> Gaspare Spontini (1774-1851)
> 
> His opera La vestale


Beethoven spoke of Spontini: "There is much good in Spontini; he understands theatrical effect and martial noises admirably."


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