# Music You Consider to be Dramatic, Intensely Emotional?



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

*This thread is to post music you consider to be intensely emotional, maybe even emotionally exhausting; music that exhibits the equivalence of great tragedy in literature.

I will give you an example: Sibelius 2nd Symphony, Mahler 9th Symphony.*


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

To my mind:


Franz Schmidt: Symphony no. IV.
Josef Suk: Asrael Symphony.
Dvorak: Symphony no. VII.
Tchaikovsky: Symphony no. VI & Manfred. Opera "Mazeppa"
Glazunov: Symphonies nos. VI & VIII, Chant du Menestral.
Sir Arnold Bax: Symphonies nos. I, II, VI, Spring Fire.
Parry: Symphonies nos. IV & V.
Bruckner: Symphony no. IX.
Wagner: Tristan und Isode, Götterdämmerung.
Rachmaninoff: Symphony no. I, Opera "The Miserly Knight", songs "By the Fresh Grave" "Night is Sorrowful"
Massenet: Opera "Werther."
Mascagni: Opera "Cavalleria Rusticana"
Puccini: Opera "Tosca."
Scriabin: last three sonatas.
Myaskovsky: Symphonies nos. VI, IX, XIII, XVI, XIV.
Mahler: All of his symphonies (except nos. IV & VIII), esp. no. IX.
Shostakovich: Opera "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District."
Popov: Symphony nos. I & II.
Weinberg: Symphony no. VI & Cello Concerto.
Kabalevsky: Symphony no. IV, Cello Concerto no. II, Opera "The Sisters."
Bernstein: Symphony no. II "The Age of Anxiety."
Walton: Symphony no. I.
Kenneth Leighton: Cello Concerto.
George Lloyd: Symphonies nos. IV, XI.
Benjamin Frankel: Violin Concerto in Memory of the Six Million, Viola Concerto.
Prokofiev: Opera "The Fiery Angel."
Rubinstein: Opera "The Demon."
Mussorgsky: Opera "Boris Godunov."
Lyatoshynsky: Symphonies nos. I-III.
Tubin: Symphonies nos. V & VIII.
Nielsen: Symphony no. IV.
Madetoja: Opera "The Ostrobothnians."
Merikanto: Opera "Juha."
Melartin: Symphony no. VI, Sonata Apocalyptica.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Thanks for sharing Orfeo. Strange thing about Franz Schmidt: Symphony no.4. ...this is the closest Symphony to Mahler I have ever heard, but there is just something about it... while I like the adagio, I just can't fully embrace this work yet, part of it _seems_ artificial to me, like an exercise in Mahlerian-Mechanics (perhaps this merely displays my ignorance). I hear too much of Mahler, but not really Mahler, just the techniques of Mahler without getting the full cup of tea. Somehow I feel like I need more, but I do fancy the adagio. My impression of this Symphony can easily change with time.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There is music that sounds highly emotional in its intent that doesn't particularly move me personally. A lot of Mahler is like that for me. Then there's music that may not seem to strive to express strong emotions but which affects me powerfully. I find that some Sibelius can be like that. There isn't any necessary correlation between a composer's intent to express powerful feelings and our personal disposition to experience them.

A few works in which the two things come together for me are: Tallis's _Spem in alium;_ Bach's _B-minor Mass;_ the final chorus from Handel's _Messiah;_ Beethoven's _9th Symphony_ and certain movements from his other works (generally slow movements), Wagner's _Tristan und Isolde_, _Parsifal_, and parts of his other operas; Verdi's _Otello_; Sibelius's _4th, 5th and 7th Symphonies; Nielsen's 4th and 5th Symphonies; Elgar's 1st Symphony; _ the last movement of Mahler's _Das Lied von der Erde;_ many works of Rachmaninoff; Vaughan Williams' _1st, 3rd_ and _5th Symphonies;_ Barber's _Adagio._ There are certainly others, but these come readily to mind.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Klassic said:


> Thanks for sharing Orfeo. Strange thing about Franz Schmidt: Symphony no.4. ...this is the closest Symphony to Mahler I have ever heard, but there is just something about it... while I like the adagio, I just can't fully embrace this work yet, part of it _seems_ artificial to me, like an exercise in Mahlerian-Mechanics (perhaps this merely displays my ignorance). I hear too much of Mahler, but not really Mahler, just the techniques of Mahler without getting the full cup of tea. Somehow I feel like I need more, but I do fancy the adagio. My impression of this Symphony can easily change with time.


You're welcome. I think Schmidt's masterpiece is more removed from Mahler while closer to Bruckner (emotionally, it's sandwiched between the two, but towards the latter, while structurally, with its symmetry, it evokes Bruckner). I really do think its closest musical cousin is Suk's Asrael. I am more than convinced that Schmidt's Symphony, with its sense of longing announced by the horn, is truly a deep work. Mehta's Decca recording with the Vienna Philharmonic is the most persuasive to date that will likely answer and challenge any doubts about this symphony.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> There is music that sounds highly emotional in its intent that doesn't particularly move me personally. A lot of Mahler is like that for me. Then there's music that may not seem to strive to express strong emotions but which affects me powerfully. I find that some Sibelius can be like that. There isn't any necessary correlation between a composer's intent to express powerful feelings and our personal disposition to experience them.
> 
> A few works in which the two things come together for me are: Tallis's _Spem in alium;_ Bach's _B-minor Mass;_ the final chorus from Handel's _Messiah;_ Beethoven's _9th Symphony_ and certain movements from his other works (generally slow movements), Wagner's _Tristan und Isolde_, _Parsifal_, and parts of his other operas; Verdi's _Otello_; Sibelius's _5th and 7th Symphonies; Nielsen's 4th and 5th Symphonies; Elgar's 1st Symphony; _ the last movement of Mahler's _Das Lied von der Erde;_ many works of Rachmaninoff; Vaughan Williams' _1st, 3rd_ and _5th Symphonies;_ Barber's _Adagio._ There are certainly others, but these come readily to mind.


I am just now trying to get Nielsen's 5th under my belt. I know a piano concerto you might like... well, so far I only like the adagio, it reminds me of the non-major Rachmaninoff piano concerto adagios. Janis Medins piano concerto, here's the adagio:


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> Mehta's Decca recording with the Vienna Philharmonic is the most persuasive to date that will likely answer and challenge any doubts about this symphony.


Yes, this is the recording I like as well. The horn is lovely.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

Verdi: Requiem
Mozart: Requiem
Dvorak: Stabat Mater
Schoenberg: Verklarte Nacht
Shostakovich: Symphony #10


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Schubert's piano sonatas in C major, G major, and B-flat major. And much of the rest of his music, for that matter.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Ligeti: Requiem
and of course Beethoven's 9th for me too.


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## MrTortoise (Dec 25, 2008)

Schnittke - Piano Quintet
Bach - d minor chaconne
Ligeti - Trio for Violin, Piano, and Natural Horn
Brahms - Intermezzo in A, Op. 118, No. 2


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

MrTortoise said:


> Schnittke - Piano Quintet


The Schnittke Quintet is quite a moving experience. Am I mistaken about this piece, or is this the piece he wrote after his mother died?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Klassic said:


> I am just now trying to get Nielsen's 5th under my belt. I know a piano concerto you might like... well, so far I only like the adagio, it reminds me of the non-major Rachmaninoff piano concerto adagios. Janis Medins piano concerto, here's the adagio:


Thanks for the link, but I have to say I'm not impressed with Medins. He goes through the right motions for a Romantic concerto, but the substance is pretty thin. I tried some piano preludes but was quickly bored with them. Guess that's why I've never heard of him.


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## MrTortoise (Dec 25, 2008)

Klassic said:


> The Schnittke Quintet is quite a moving experience. Am I mistaken about this piece, or is this the piece he wrote after his mother died?


Yes, it was. Haunting work, it draws so many strong emotions from me I don't listen to it often.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2015)

Alban Berg - _Lulu_


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Varese-Ameriques


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

It has been mentioned already but I most definitely think that Josef Suk's _Asrael Symphony_ should be at the top of the list, followed closely by his subsequent symphonic poem, _Ripening_. That they are intensely emotional is no surprise given the trauma in Suk's life that triggered them - first the death of his father-in-law, Antonin Dvorak which was the reason for starting _Asrael_. Then, during the composition of it, his wife, Otilie, died very suddenly. _Ripening_ is a rough translation of the Czech title _Zrání_, which could also be translated as 'maturing' in the sense of personal growth after the tragedies.

Regarding mention of Nielsen's 5th, one of my very favourite works, while I agree that it is very dramatic, I would not describe it as emotional.

P.S. Listening to a very good recording of _Asrael_ is very emotional, sitting in a concert hall while it is played can be shattering.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> It has been mentioned already but I most definitely think that Josef Suk's _Asrael Symphony_ should be at the top of the list, followed closely by his subsequent symphonic poem, _Ripening_. That they are intensely emotional is no surprise given the trauma in Suk's life that triggered them - first the death of his father-in-law, Antonin Dvorak which was the reason for starting _Asrael_. Then, during the composition of it, his wife, Otilie, died very suddenly. _Ripening_ is a rough translation of the Czech title _Zrání_, which could also be translated as 'maturing' in the sense of personal growth after the tragedies.
> 
> Regarding mention of Nielsen's 5th, one of my very favourite works, while I agree that it is very dramatic, I would not describe it as emotional.
> 
> P.S. Listening to a very good recording of _Asrael_ is very emotional, sitting in a concert hall while it is played can be shattering.


Thanks for bringing up _Asrael._ It's been too long since I listened to it. It made a deep impression.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Tristan prelude(s) and ending get a lot of attention, Wotan's farewell and (somewhat inexplicably) the prelude to act 1 of Walkure get a lot of attention, Brunnhilde's immolation gets a lot of attention, etc., but, in spite of it being relatively neglected among 'wagner moments' I *still* in my years listening specifically for the most high-octane music, struggle to find anything *anywhere* with a more concentrated, desperate passion than the Act 2 Walkure prelude:






I really like the Furtwangler version with Frantz and Modl (whose battle cry is amazing on recording) a lot.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Becca said:


> It has been mentioned already but I most definitely think that Josef Suk's _Asrael Symphony_ should be at the top of the list, followed closely by his subsequent symphonic poem, _Ripening_. That they are intensely emotional is no surprise given the trauma in Suk's life that triggered them - first the death of his father-in-law, Antonin Dvorak which was the reason for starting _Asrael_. Then, during the composition of it, his wife, Otilie, died very suddenly. _Ripening_ is a rough translation of the Czech title _Zrání_, which could also be translated as 'maturing' in the sense of personal growth after the tragedies.
> 
> Regarding mention of Nielsen's 5th, one of my very favourite works, while I agree that it is very dramatic, I would not describe it as emotional.
> 
> P.S. Listening to a very good recording of _Asrael_ is very emotional, sitting in a concert hall while it is played can be shattering.


Becca, thank you for the background information here. This always helps me relate to a piece of music, because I know the composer forged it from his or her life experience.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Let me bring in an old master here; the first movement of Haydn's 49th Symphony. This is also my favorite recording (but then again I have not heard many recordings of this piece):


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Where to start?

Bach: Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, Toccata and Fugue in D minor, 

Toccata and fugue in G minor (The Great), Prelude and fugue in F Major.
Prelude in Eb minor from the Well Tempered Clavier book 1, Prelude in C 

Major Well Tempered Clavier book 1, Cello Suite #1 prelude

Wagner: Der Ring Des Nibelungen, Reinzi Overture, Flying Dutchman 

Overture and Prelude and Choruses from Act 3, Tannhauser Overture, 

Lohengrin Prelude, Tristan and Isolde Prelude to Act 1 Love duet Act2 

Prelude to Act 3 Liebestod Parsifal Overture and Act 1 Grail Ceremony 

and Act 3 interlude between scenes 1&2 and finale. 

Handel: "Isreal in Egypt" Closing Choruses, "Messiah" Behold the Lamb 

of God, Surely He hath Borne our Griefs-All We like Sheep, Halleluja, 

Worthy is the Lamb, Amen not "Messiah" Saraband in D minor, 

Passacaglia in G minor

Mozart: Symphony #40 in G minor, Requiem in D minor. "Die Hoele 

Rache" from The Magic Flute

Gluck: Iphegenia in Aulos Overture (Wagner revision)

Purcell: Dido and Aeneas "When I am Laid in Earth"

Saint-Saens: Samson and Dellilah "My Heart at Thy Sweet Voice" and 

Bacchanale, Symphony #3 the Organ

Sibelius: "The Swan of Tuonela"

Grieg: Peer Gynt "Death of Ase" "In the Hall of the Mountain King" not 

Peer Gynt "The Last Spring"

Gilbert and Sulivan: Ruddigore "When the Night Wind Howels", Mikado 

"The Living I"

Dukas: "Sorcerers Apprentice"

Stravinsky: "Rite of Spring"

Rimsky-Korsakov: "Scheherazade" "Symphony #2 Tamara" "Capriccio 

Espaniol" "Russina Easter Overture"

Rachmaninoff: Prelude in C# minor, Prelude in G minor, Prelude in G# 

minor, Vocalise

Shostakovich: "Lady MacBeth" Symphonies 4,5,8,9,10,11,12 "Music for 

Hamlet", String quartet 8, 

Kalinnikov: "Nymphs", Symphony #1

Mendelssohn: "The Hebrides Overture"

Prokofiev: "Seven, they are Seven", "Scythian Suite"

Tchaikovsky: Symphonies 4,5,6 "Swan Lake Act 4" "Marche Slav"

Verdi: Requiem "Dies Irae", Rigoletto Quartet, Aida Grand March (the 

whole thing with the chorusses at both ends and the ballet in the middle)

Richard Strauss: "Death and Transfiguration" "Also Sprach Zarathustra"
"Electra" "Dance of the Seven Veils from Solome"

Orff: "Carmina Burana" "Catuli Carmin" "Upote, Maepote from De 

Temporum Fine Comoedia"

Chadwick: "Jubilee"

Foster: "Beautiful Dreamer"

Gottschalk: "A Night in the Tropics"

Donnezetti: Luccia de Lammermour Sextet

Griffiths: "The Pleasuredome of Kubelai Khan"

Williams: End titles for "Star Wars Attack of the Clones"

Annon: "Poor Wayfairing Stranger"

Weinberger: "Polka and Fugue from Schwanda" (always best with the 

chorus)

Byrd: "Flow my Tears"

Henry Mancini: Music For "Lifefource"

Rosza: Music for "Ben Hur"

Give me a few more minutes and I'll come up with some more.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

so many possibilities but can I highlight the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 27th Symphony and Medtner's 2nd Piano Concerto....oh and......then again....


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Strauss' Elektra
Zimmermann's Die Soldaten


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

drpraetorus said:


> Bach: Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, Toccata and Fugue in D minor,


I agree very much; I love this piece, but more than anything I love the Stokowksi transcription. If this made it to the top of your list (and you like the Stokowski transcription, then you might appreciate this/ *Winograd Conducts his own version of Bach Contrapunctus XIV*:


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

jim prideaux said:


> so many possibilities but can I highlight the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 27th Symphony and Medtner's 2nd Piano Concerto....oh and......then again....


You are indeed correct about the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 27th Symphony, what a heartfelt piece of music. I would probably have NEVER listened to this piece if you did not post in this thread. I thank you very much!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

*Josef Suk: Asrael Symphony.* Does anyone have any recommendations for quality recordings of this piece? Twofold process, once you find a good piece of music the next task is to find a good recording.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

Ross Edwards "Symphony Da Pacem Domine".... Gorecki "Symphony No.3".


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Klassic said:


> *Josef Suk: Asrael Symphony.* Does anyone have any recommendations for quality recordings of this piece? Twofold process, once you find a good piece of music the next task is to find a good recording.


I doubt that you would go wrong with the one I have, Libor Pesek & the Royal Liverpool, neither would you do wrong with either Charles Mackerras or Jiri Belohlavek


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

alan davis said:


> Ross Edwards "Symphony Da Pacem Domine".... Gorecki "Symphony No.3".


Never heard of Ross Edwards, will listen as soon as I get the chance, love Gorecki No.3. Thanks for recommendations.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I would give an honourable mention for emotional to Shostakovich's 11th. I realize that it is not his most highly regarded work but it does it for me!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

My favorite moment in music is when you come across something that touches you to the core, so profound is the experience of the music that you are altered forever. I am _fortunate_ to be able to say that this has happened to me many times in my life:

*Handel Death March from Saul:*






*PURCELL - Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary*


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## kartikeys (Mar 16, 2013)

Lots by Zelenka
Depending on definition, Adagio by Albinoni
Eroica by Beethoven
A piano work by Liszt I do not recall.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Klassic said:


> music that exhibits the equivalence of great tragedy in literature.


Chopin Op 48/1 
Zimmermann Die Soldaten
Bach BWV 99/i as conceived by Harnoncourt (accept no substitutes)


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## Oscarf (Dec 13, 2014)

Becca said:


> I doubt that you would go wrong with the one I have, Libor Pesek & the Royal Liverpool, neither would you do wrong with either Charles Mackerras or Jiri Belohlavek


+1 for the RLPO/Libor Pesek version


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Orfeo said:


> You're welcome. I think Schmidt's masterpiece is more removed from Mahler while closer to Bruckner (emotionally, it's sandwiched between the two, but towards the latter, while structurally, with its symmetry, it evokes Bruckner). I really do think its closest musical cousin is Suk's Asrael. I am more than convinced that Schmidt's Symphony, with its sense of longing announced by the horn, is truly a deep work. Mehta's Decca recording with the Vienna Philharmonic is the most persuasive to date that will likely answer and challenge any doubts about this symphony.


Agree about Mehta in that symphony; Rudolf Moralt is also very interesting. Rajter is poor.

Some stuff I don´t think was mentioned:

Schnittke Viola Concerto
Mahler Symphony 10 completed
Pettersson Symphonies 6-8, 2nd Violin Concerto (Ida Haendel recording)
Busoni Piano Concerto
Lajtha Symphony 9 (Ferencsik recording)


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm not sure if I ever get particularly emotional about music, but I sometimes get a pleasurable tingling across my body if something I listen to seems especially beautiful. This is sometimes rather intense, sometimes barely anything (I think it's called ASMR).

I know I sound like a broken record, but Dufay's credo from MISSA L'HOMME ARME, interpreted by Oxford Camerata, is a recent example of a piece that's done this often, especially the last four minutes. Mostly it's just some classics, passages from Wagner.

Not that it's something I look for. Music to me is about a mental-aesthetic experience or perception, not emotion. If I want emotion, I can read the news.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Chordalrock said:


> I'm not sure if I ever get particularly emotional about music, but I sometimes get a pleasurable tingling across my body if something I listen to seems especially beautiful. This is sometimes rather intense, sometimes barely anything (I think it's called ASMR).
> 
> I know I sound like a broken record, but Dufay's credo from MISSA L'HOMME ARME, interpreted by Oxford Camerata, is a recent example of a piece that's done this often, especially the last four minutes. Mostly it's just some classics, passages from Wagner.
> 
> Not that it's something I look for. Music to me is about a mental-aesthetic experience or perception, not emotion. If I want emotion, I can read the news.


I think that might be the most interesting, head-scratching thing I've ever read on this forum........not that I don't often experience music more aesthetically than emotionally...but wow.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> I think that might be the most interesting, head-scratching thing I've ever read on this forum........not that I don't often experience music more aesthetically than emotionally...but wow.


Watch an emotionally manipulative Hollywood hack job, and you'll learn the true value of emotion. Of course, emotion combined with cool aesthetic stuff is nice, but it's the cool aesthetic stuff I listen for.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Chordalrock said:


> Watch an emotionally manipulative Hollywood hack job, and you'll learn the true value of emotion. Of course, emotion combined with cool aesthetic stuff is nice, but it's the cool aesthetic stuff I listen for.


I'd draw a distinction between shallow manipulation and deeper emotional connection. Emotion itself is hardly a bad thing.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> Emotion itself is hardly a bad thing.


No, just overrated. I think the idea that music is all about emotion is part of the reason why most people never bother to develop their taste. They think any music that "does it" for them is of equal value, so why bother putting any effort into such a hobby? What a shame.

But I don't want to hijack this thread, so here's another candidate for emotionally powerful music:

Penderecki's MAGNUS DOMINUS from SEVEN GATES OF JERUSALEM. And another that I just mentioned in a different thread:

Mozart's penultimate scene from DON GIOVANNI (the one where Don Giovanni is dragged into hell). And of course:

Elgar's CELLO CONCERTO first movement as played by Du Pre in the 1970 recording with Barenboim.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

In reading through this thread I am fascinated by the broad spectrum of what is considered 'intensely emotional'. It just goes to show that our individual emotional thresholds vary as widely as our tastes in music. That may seem obvious but is something that is often ignored.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Richard Strauss' Four Last Songs

Samuel Barber's Sonata Op. 26; Violin Concerto

Copland's Appalachian Spring and Fanfare for the Common Man

Beethoven's Ninth

Purcell's Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary

Bach: Sinfonia No. 9 in F minor

Schoenberg: Theme and Variations op. 43b

to name a few...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I'd draw a distinction between shallow manipulation and deeper emotional connection.


I'd be interested to see how you'd draw that distinction.

I notice about myself that performances which seem manipulative get my back up, as opposed to ones which seek to lead me through the music gently. But I'm not sure I could really explain it without metaphors. Anyway, manipulation / influencing with integrity seem to me a really important concepts in performance appreciation.

A very good example of a non-manipulative performer is Richard Egarr, at least in keyboard music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Chordalrock said:


> I'm not sure if I ever get particularly emotional about music,


No, nor do I. But I think that a part of what I experience is the music expressing emotions. A tombeau by Couperin expresses grief but listening to it doesn't make me grieve.



Chordalrock said:


> Music to me is about a mental-aesthetic experience or perception, not emotion.


Me too. The thing is that if we looked a little more into what the aesthetic element of the music appreciation experience involves, I bet we'd find that emotions expressed was part of it, at least some of the time.

I've been trying to how Willaert does this. How the harmonies he uses reflect in some way the meanings of the poems he set. It's not easy!


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Some dramatic piano pieces then.

Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 23, "Appassionata"




Played by Arrau.

Chopin - Ballade No. 1




Zimerman. This is my favorite recording, magically changing stool included.

Scriabin - Fantasie Op. 28




Sofronitsky, no recording compares, so deal with the quality. Such a hypercharged piece, with an intense, romantic climax. The long drawn out ending pretty much beats you into submission.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> No, nor do I. But I think that a part of what I experience is the music expressing emotions. A tombeau by Couperin expresses grief but listening to it doesn't make me grieve.
> 
> Me too. The thing is that if we looked a little more into what the aesthetic element of the music appreciation experience involves, I bet we'd find that emotions expressed was part of it, at least some of the time.
> 
> I've been trying to how Willaert does this. How the harmonies he uses reflect in some way the meanings of the poems he set. It's not easy!


I tend to think in terms of moods, so perhaps I'd agree. But I think of moods, in this context, as being something like mental landscapes that don't have an existence separate from the aural shape of the music, and are thus as varied as music itself. If they were emotion, they would be too subtle to make a difference. They must be perceptual phenomena instead. I suspect that if you see something as simple as joy in a piece by Mozart, you are perhaps deceiving yourself and reducing the music to simple concepts that are easy to talk about but don't really describe the music very well.

It's an interesting topic. I think it's easier to imagine that a piece of music expresses an actual emotion if a performer tries to put it there by using inessential elements of music (dynamics, rubato, etc). I think mechanic synthetic midi performances leave people cold because melody, harmony, and counterpoint are rarely enough to express something more intense than moods.

I've long been fascinated by how Dufay set the words of the credo in his L'HOMME ARME mass. Composers usually didn't pay attention to the words back then when setting the mass, but to me that particular piece seems to be an exception. Music does seem to be good at using sound to describe mental landscapes that seem related to moods or emotions, and of course it's very bad at creating specific mental images the way that language does.

Anyway, I guess that when people start imagining that a performance has a lot of emotion, they may also start empathising with the music, which would create an emotional experience similar to empathising with a person who wins a sports event or something.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

There is one other piece which I can't bring myself to listen to any longer because of emotional reaction - _Der Abscheid_ from _Das Lied von der Erde_. It is a piece that I have come to associate with the loss of very close family members.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I think it's more accurate to say that music is capable of evoking many different states of being. To call the dimensions of being simply "emotional" is misleading. Thought/feeling are often interactive, and one affects the other.

The Schoenberg Five Pieces for Orchestra do this for me; the thought-feelings they evoke are indescribable in simplistic terms, yet I get a strong feeling from them, as well as a kind of insight, or truth.

The Variations, op. 43b, is another example. I know that Schoenberg was in America at this time, and the music evokes a sense of changing times, of the end of an era, as if he were saying goodbye to the older classical tradition to which he was so attached, and so longed to be a part of, and in which he wanted to prove that his life and work counted for something; something proud, noble, and beautiful.

And yet, here he was in America, teaching for a pittance at UCLA, and playing ping-pong with George Gershwin. Nothing against GG, but not exactly the heroic ending I had in mind for Schoenberg.

This kind of aesthetic reaction is not simple emotion; a whole matrix of associations opens up for me.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Chordalrock said:


> I've long been fascinated by how Dufay set the words of the credo in his L'HOMME ARME mass. *Composers usually didn't pay attention to the words back then when setting the mass*, but to me that particular piece seems to be an exception.


I've often wondered about this, I remember once listening to lots of different Ludford's setting of "Sabaoth" in Missa Christi Virgo Dilectissima and imagining that he captures a sense of the fear that God's hosts might be expected to produce, the voices sound slightly intimidated, daunted, until they sing Hosanna in excelsis. And then they become serene for the Benedictus.

But maybe they weren't expressing their interpretation of the words at all.

Oh another thing I came across recently which (maybe) bears on this has to do with Obrecht's motet Factor Orbis -- this here commentary by Jennifer Bloxam.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...epage&q=obrecht factor orbis exegesis&f=false

It looks as though Obrecht was writing exegetical music, expressing ideas by the way he set the words.

Bach did this with text based instrumental music (Clavier Ubung 3.)


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> I've often wondered about this, I remember once listening to lots of different Ludford's setting of "Sabaoth" in Missa Christi Virgo Dilectissima and imagining that he captures a sense of the fear that God's hosts might be expected to produce, the voices sound slightly intimidated, daunted, until they sing Hosanna in excelsis. And then they become serene for the Benedictus.
> 
> But maybe they weren't expressing their interpretation of the words at all.


The Hosanna section is typically musically appropriate, and I'm sure there are other rather typical cases of composers paying attention to the spirit of the different mass sections, but what I really meant was that Dufay seems to be expressing sentence after sentence in music in the credo. If you listen to credos from the early and mid Renaissance, the music can be anything at all and seems to bear no relation to the words. Of course, the credo has a lot of words and ideas stuffed into it, unlike the other mass sections, so there's no generalised mood or spirit for the composer to express. He has to go all the way in terms of expressing the words or not do it at all. Gloria has a lot of words too, but not that much content.

However, the phrase "ex Maria Virgine" in the credo seems to often attract special attention from composers. I recall at least Josquin having some nice effects for that phrase, though I'm not sure he's so much trying to express the concept in music as he is emphasising the importance of Virgin Mary to the Catholic faith.

Motets are of course a whole different story.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Mahlerian said:


> I'd draw a distinction between shallow manipulation and deeper emotional connection. Emotion itself is hardly a bad thing.


I agree with this... when a composer has the technical know-how, but is not vulnerable in his/her music... when music is just an exercise in technique... Mahler was the exact opposite of this kind of composer.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Not sure these pieces were mentioned: 

Barber's Adagio for Strings (Bernstein)

Albinoni's Adagio (particularly either of the Karajan recordings).


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

*Arvo Pärt - Cantus in Memory of Benjamin Britten:*


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

jim prideaux said:


> so many possibilities but can I highlight the 2nd movement of Myaskovsky's 27th Symphony and Medtner's 2nd Piano Concerto....oh and......then again....


What can I say; having now listened to your recommendation of Myaskovsky over 20 times... I highly recommend this piece to anyone who has never heard of it! The work jabs at the heart, has moments of grandiosity and nobility, is over-all, very tenderly felt, is equal in melody to Tchaikovsky. Can't thank you enough.

This is best recording I could find online:


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

*Emotional associations*



Becca said:


> There is one other piece which I can't bring myself to listen to any longer because of emotional reaction - _Der Abscheid_ from _Das Lied von der Erde_. It is a piece that I have come to associate with the loss of very close family members.


Yes, I have this with Shostakovich 2nd Piano Concerto, favourite of a dear old friend, now deceased. But why not listen to the music, accept what it means to you and remember fondly?


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## M Palmer (Dec 31, 2015)

Schubert - Winterreise

Mahler - Kindertotenlieder


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Pat Fairlea said:


> Yes, I have this with Shostakovich 2nd Piano Concerto, favourite of a dear old friend, now deceased. But why not listen to the music, accept what it means to you and remember fondly?


The experience of some music is simply too painful, troubling or sorrowful. But we are creatures of emotion, which is a thing that drives our love for music. Some composers were exceedingly good at expressing loss (Mahler for example)... and if you think about it loss is an experience that really _matters_ to us. We are exceedingly fortunate to have so much wonderful music.


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## ganio (Dec 25, 2015)

The first piece that came to my mind.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

OP: A lot. But right now, Bach's cello suites come to mind. If that doesn't move you, you must be dead.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Ralph Vaughan Williams - Symphony No. 5, Part III: Romanza (Lento):


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The first movement of Brahms' Piano Concerto Number One is as dramatic and intensely emotional as I can handle!


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

Sibelius 2
Sibelius 5
Mahler 2
Mahler 9 
Mahler Das Lied von der Erde


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

EarthBoundRules said:


> Sibelius 2
> Sibelius 5
> Mahler 2
> Mahler 9
> Mahler Das Lied von der Erde


Agreed. 
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.


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## ribonucleic (Aug 20, 2014)

The second syllable of "Siegfried", as sung by Brigitte Nielsen at the end of Brunnhilde's Immolation Scene in Wagner's _Gotterdammerung_.

It's just one note and I would trade all of _Macbeth_ for it.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Schnittke - Faust Cantata


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Off the top of my head, two works more than any other :

Mozart's Requiem 
Kancheli's Lament (in memory of Luigi Nono)


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Stavrogin said:


> Off the top of my head, two works more than any other:
> Kancheli's Lament (in memory of Luigi Nono)


Thank you for recommending. I have never heard of this, I will be sure to give it a listen.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Klassic said:


> Thank you for recommending. I have never heard of this, I will be sure to give it a listen.


It's a sublime 40-minute prayer in an illuminating balance between slow, heartfelt pianissimos (led by the violin and th soprano) and violent, roaring bursts of the whole orchestra.

Unfortunately, on YouTube there isn't but an incomplete footage (with ludicrous video and audio quality) of what must have been an otherwise great live performance.
The only nice thing about that video is that the camera guy at a certain point speaks loudly to someone close to him and you can see the audience - including the composer himself! - turning angrily at him...


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Oh, a lot of stuff. Let's mention one: Brahms string sextet 1, movement 2.


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## bravenewworld (Jan 24, 2016)

I'm new to this thread and a young classical music novice of only 2 year's experience. In my short time listening to classical I have found several to be heart rending and passionate sometimes in a way that is quite incredible. 
Purcell- The Fairy Queen: If love's a sweet passion then why does it torment?
King Arthur: Passacaglia 



Arise, my Muse
Rimsky Korsakov- Scheherazade 
Mahler- Symphony no.1 mov. IV ( I know it is the least popular movement of Titan, but for some reason it gets me the most)
Bach- St Matthew's Passion: Kommt, Ihr Tochter, Helft mir Klagen!
Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor
Toccata and Fugue in D Minor
The Art of Fugue (I find the Academy of St Martin in the Fields to be the best here)
Allegri -Miserere mei Deus
Unknown (I think)- The Coventry Carol
Fargo, Season One theme song
Rustle of Spring (forgot who composed this)
Handel- Ombra mai fu
Dixit Dominus (the beginning, so I have a feeling it's an overture)
Dowland - Flow my tears
Beethoven- Symphony no.3 & 6
The Creatures of Prometheus Overture
Brahms - Hungarian Dances (the whole lot)
Mozart- Requiem
Perhaps the overture of The Magic Flute

When I look at my paltry list it seems very pedestrian... But then again, I'm only 15-so if you ask me in 60 years, maybe I could make a much more meaty list!


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Out of all the threads this is my favorite (and not just because I started it). A true lover of classical music is always looking for more quality music: we can never get enough! Thank you everyone who has contributed, keep on contributing! I have not been able to listen to every piece on this thread but am going to dedicate some serious time to the many hopeful recommendations that have been provided. Thank you all!


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## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

Klassic said:


> *This thread is to post music you consider to be intensely emotional, maybe even emotionally exhausting; music that exhibits the equivalence of great tragedy in literature.
> 
> I will give you an example: Sibelius 2nd Symphony, Mahler 9th Symphony.*


Mmm, are orchestral/vocal/choral works included, or is that cheating? Your mention of Sibelius brings to mind one of the most intensely emotional scenes in all of classical music (for me, anyway), the scene in Sibelius' Kullervo Symphony when Kullervo comes to the agonizing recognition that the woman he has just raped is his long-lost sister.


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## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

ribonucleic said:


> The second syllable of "Siegfried", as sung by Brigitte Nielsen at the end of Brunnhilde's Immolation Scene in Wagner's _Gotterdammerung_.
> 
> It's just one note and I would trade all of _Macbeth_ for it.


I'd trade all of Macbeth for a gently used tongue depressor. I have been trying for 45 years to come to grips with that piece (I assume you're speaking of the opera, not of Strauss' MacBeth), and just cannot find anything lovely or stirring or moving or anything else that we expect music to contain.


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## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

In the purely orchestral arena, the Mahler Ninth, the Mahler 10th, the Bruckner Seventh and Eighth, the Nielsen Fourth and Fifth, the Rachmaninoff Second, come to mind. I'm sure there's lots of stuff I'm missing. Oh, yes, the Suk Asrael Symphony. Oh, and even though this is choral/vocal, how can I leave it out, maybe THE most moving choral work ever written, IMO, Bloch's Sacred Service Avodath Ha-Kodesh. And while I'm not a Bernstein fan for most things, you have not heard this work until you've heard the Bernstein/Robert Merrill version.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

drnlaw said:


> In the purely orchestral arena, the Mahler Ninth, the Mahler 10th, the Bruckner Seventh and Eighth, the Nielsen Fourth and Fifth, the Rachmaninoff Second, come to mind. I'm sure there's lots of stuff I'm missing. Oh, yes, the Suk Asrael Symphony. Oh, and even though this is choral/vocal, how can I leave it out, maybe THE most moving choral work ever written, IMO, Bloch's Sacred Service Avodath Ha-Kodesh. And while I'm not a Bernstein fan for most things, you have not heard this work until you've heard the Bernstein/Robert Merrill version.


Good stuff here.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm going to go out of the box a little bit. I think the most intensely emotional bit of music that I've ever heard is "Lonely Woman" from Ornette Coleman's _The Shape of Jazz to Come_.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

alan davis said:


> Ross Edwards "Symphony Da Pacem Domine".


Intensely emotional is correct, what a lovely and heartrending piece of music. Sad, very very sad: 




Thank you for making me aware of this.


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## Martyn Harper (Jan 27, 2016)

I find Vaughan Williams Symphony No 3 (Pastoral) very moving. It has a very sad elegaic quality, a yearning for a pastoral world that has been so deeply wounded by the carnage of WW1. I also find that much of Shostakovich's music affects me emotionally.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## MonagFam (Nov 17, 2015)

MrTortoise said:


> Yes, it was. Haunting work, it draws so many strong emotions from me I don't listen to it often.


Some pieces can really affect me the same way. I don't know that I can listen to Schubert's Der Erlkonig for that very reason.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Bach Partita no2 BWV 1004

If it doesn't already move you?
Then watch/listen to Vengerov playing it in Auschwitz


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I'd recommend classical music :tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: Verdi's Manzoni Requiem covers all those bases. Dramatic and intensely emotional.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Brahms PC No.1
Sibelius VC
Tchaikovsky VC
It would seem I am a sucker for big romantic concertos


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

So many great mentions in this thread. I'll mention one I haven't seen mentioned, but which never fails to reduce me to a teary puddle:






Lyrics/Translation:

Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen

Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen,
Mit der ich sonst viele Zeit verdorben,
Sie hat so lange nichts von mir vernommen,
Sie mag wohl glauben, ich sei gestorben!

Es ist mir auch gar nichts daran gelegen,
Ob sie mich für gestorben hält,
Ich kann auch gar nichts sagen dagegen,
Denn wirklich bin ich gestorben der Welt.

Ich bin gestorben dem Weltgetümmel,
Und ruh' in einem stillen Gebiet!
Ich leb' allein in meinem Himmel,
In meinem Lieben, in meinem Lied!

Friedrich Rückert (1788-1866)

I am lost to the world
with which I used to waste so much time,
It has heard nothing from me for so long
that it may very well believe that I am dead!

It is of no consequence to me
Whether it thinks me dead;
I cannot deny it,
for I really am dead to the world.

I am dead to the world's tumult,
And I rest in a quiet realm!
I live alone in my heaven,
In my love and in my song!

Translation by Emily Ezust


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

*atsizat* ----thank you for the recommendations. Morricone has produced much beautiful music. His "Once Upon a Time in America" soundtrack has long been one of my favorites. I was not aware of the other pieces by him that you recommended. Thank you.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> So many great mentions in this thread. I'll mention one I haven't seen mentioned, but which never fails to reduce me to a teary puddle


Heartbreaking music of the earth. Thank you for providing the translation.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Klassic said:


> Heartbreaking music of the earth. Thank you for providing the translation.


You're very welcome.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)




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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

This is both sad and beautiful. If you like Barber's Adagio for string then you will probably appreciate this:


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