# Am I the first to notice this crazy similarity between a piece of Haydn and one of John Field's nocturnes?



## jamesmayhew (8 mo ago)

Take a look first at 18:15 (4th mov) from the Haydn string quartet (Op. 76 No. 6) then listen to 52:21 (the middle section) of Field's nocturne in D minor.

Seems like a bit of copycatting.


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

I wouldn't say it's a case of plagiarism since composers borrowed from one another all the time.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I noticed that the main theme of the first movement of Schubert's string quintet is almost identical to a passage from the first movement of Beethoven's Fourth Symphony.

There are clearer instances of borrowing than the example you show.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*"Am I the first to notice this crazy similarity between a piece of Haydn and one of John Field's nocturnes?"*

[italics mine]
No. I suspect John Field was the first to notice this.
You may, though, be the second....


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## jamesmayhew (8 mo ago)

SONNET CLV said:


> *"Am I the first to notice this crazy similarity between a piece of Haydn and one of John Field's nocturnes?"*
> 
> [italics mine]
> No. I suspect John Field was the first to notice this.
> You may, though, be the second....


😂 Although if Field deliberately used the theme, I'm not sure the meaning of 'notice' is wholly applicable in his case - as far as my understanding takes me, I thought noticing is observing/realising something not at first noticed, so as long as Field knew he was using Haydn's tune in the first place then perhaps it wasn't possible for him to notice it.
🤷‍♂️
I know it's a bit of a cheesy title to the thread - wasn't trying to come across as arrogant


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## jamesmayhew (8 mo ago)

4chamberedklavier said:


> I wouldn't say it's a case of plagiarism since composers borrowed from one another all the time.


I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, it just seems such a striking similarity and as far as I know hasn't been picked up on beforehand


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## jamesmayhew (8 mo ago)

Who knows why he used the Haydn theme (I think it's pretty clear that the chances of Field coming up with such a similar passage originally are very slim); perhaps it was an intentional Haydn homage, or he was stuck for an idea and used that, or it could have been a subconscious influence from studying the work earlier in his life.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

What do you think about—

measure 18 in the slow movement of Mozart string quartet K.428: youtube.com/watch?v=bkNWCx-2AbU&t=14m38s









transpose it up a semitone to A major, it looks like this:








D -------------------------
---G#---A ---A#--- B --- C#
---B --- A ---G#-------
--------- F ---E ----------------

a passage from Wagner Tristan und Isolde Prelude:
youtube.com/watch?v=-QX7dgBqfgw&t=6m18s








D--------------------------
---G#---A ---A# --- B --- C#
B-------------
F--------------E--G#-B---- E


the ways to reach climax (before falling with arpeggios to the reprise of the initial material) in both Wagner and Mozart (sonata K.533), with a 7th chord built on F. The Wagner climaxes with a half-diminished 7th. The Mozart with a dominant 7th.
youtube.com/watch?v=fRu5f7BzdR4&t=5m5s ( 5:05 ~ 5:35 )
youtube.com/watch?v=-QX7dgBqfgw&t=7m ( 7:00 ~ 7:30 )









youtube.com/watch?v=I0CzPGo9ZFg&t=5m22s


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## jamesmayhew (8 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> What do you think about—
> 
> measure 18 in the slow movement of Mozart string quartet K.428: youtube.com/watch?v=bkNWCx-2AbU&t=14m38s
> 
> ...


Interesting!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Never even thought about it, now I am curious as can be, so going find out today.


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## CopistaSignorGomez (Dec 9, 2021)

@hammeredklavier


I ' ve been looking for similirities, musical references, borrowed themes, etc in Mozart

it took me years and years, because I do mainly by myself, I just decided to don't read more and find this jewels just listening by myself

Today I add another one

Really nice this one, cause I appreciate the first movement of Mozart symphony 27, so I was shocked I found here my loved Hasse

At that moment, I have a REALLY HUGE list of similaritirs, borrowing or call it how you like in Mozart, and also a list of other Galant Composers quoting others Galant/Barroc composers

I don't like romanticism, or listen to anything later than 1790

I think I'm a bit obsessed about that quotes that you will find over all styles, and in particular, Mozart uses SISTEMATICALLY , CONSTANTLY themes/ motif from others composers mainly Myslivecek, Michale Haydn and JC Bach, but the list of composers he quotes is very large

you may think I hate Mozart and I consider him a thief of themes, and believe I dont think that, In fact, I consider Mozart one of the most gifters composers, he was a terrible genius, probably without comparison in music or other arts, acording to my humble opinion

anyway, look at that











listen the first mov's and you will find something nice

( Nota bene: Mozart also uses this motif of Hasse in K87/iii )

It's not the first time I found Mozart using Hasse themes/motif, Mozart really liked Hasse music


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## CopistaSignorGomez (Dec 9, 2021)

so i experienced the fact ot listening something similar in Mozart opus , or between others galant composers very often

it's something magic

sometimes, you can think you are the first person that found this quotes after 2 centuries

that's why I prefer to find this jewels by myself, and the major part of them are not in Mozart literature, believe me


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

CopistaSignorGomez said:


> @hammeredklavier
> I think I'm a bit obsessed about that quotes that you will find over all styles, and in particular, Mozart uses SISTEMATICALLY , CONSTANTLY themes/ motif from others composers mainly Myslivecek, Michale Haydn and JC Bach, but the list of composers he quotes is very large






MH199/ii




K.497/ii


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