# How to backup CDs on PC?



## popof

So far, I have been using only my CD player, amplifier and loudspeakers to listen to my CDs. I do not plan to stop spinning CDs, but a backup of all my CDs looks like a good idea.

I have 1000+ classical CDs and I am confused as to where to start to make a backup of all of them. How do you people organise your CD backup recordings?

E.g. my PC has just a cheap CD drive. Should I install one that is particularly good for music? Which one?

E.g. should I upgrade my sound card? Which sound card is best for music?

Should I store the sound files on an external hard drive, or copy them on CDs or other media?

I am hesitating between MP3 320kbps or lossless WAV (double the space). Recommendations?

Should I organise these recordings piece by piece, or CD by CD? E.g. if recording a CD with a symphony by Shostakovich and a concerto by Prokoviev, should it be one folder, or two folders?

How do you copy the track information (movements, duration) and other details from the CD cover and booklet? Scan? That seems like a titanesque task! Is there a program or a widget that can assist me with that? E.g. a barcode reader that would scan each CD's barcode and display all that? And how do you associate that information with your sound files?

My CD collection is organised in a chronological-analogical way. I have medieval, baroque, classical, romantic etc. in that order. Within these, I have the composers by date of birth. Within the composers, I have the works by number of instruments: sonatas, duos, quartets, orchestra, orchestra with soloists and choir. How do I replicate that classification in a digital storage system that allows me to browse per genre / period?

A titanesque task ahead, but I suppose I'd better start somewhere...


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## Art Rock

I can't answer all your questions, but this one, yes:



> Should I store the sound files on an external hard drive, or copy them on CDs or other media?


Invest in *two *external hard drives, and copy the ripped files (WAV, FLAC, APE or MP3) on both of them. Store them in different places. Converting your collection to digital is a lot of work and you do not want to do that again if a drive crashes.


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## Philip

popof said:


> I have 1000+ classical CDs and I am confused as to where to start to make a backup of all of them. How do you people organise your CD backup recordings?


Personally: by folder structure



> E.g. my PC has just a cheap CD drive. Should I install one that is particularly good for music? Which one?


No. Cheap drive is fine.



> E.g. should I upgrade my sound card? Which sound card is best for music?


No. Soundcard has nothing to do with ripping. For listening purposes, most discrete audio cards (not onboard) are adequate, given that they have the features you need (input/ouputs, etc.).



> Should I store the sound files on an external hard drive, or copy them on CDs or other media?


Internal hard drive is the best value, then external, then other media.



> I am hesitating between MP3 320kbps or lossless WAV (double the space). Recommendations?


Neither, MP3 is not a backup, WAV is an uncompressed backup. You want a lossless codec like FLAC. A lossy codec like MP3 or AAC is fine, but first you must acknowledge that it doesn't completely represent the CD, in terms of data. A true backup consists of an image file (eg. ISO), but isn't necessary nor recommended for this purpose.



> Should I organise these recordings piece by piece, or CD by CD? E.g. if recording a CD with a symphony by Shostakovich and a concerto by Prokoviev, should it be one folder, or two folders?


1 Folder per CD.



> How do you copy the track information (movements, duration) and other details from the CD cover and booklet? Scan? That seems like a titanesque task! Is there a program or a widget that can assist me with that? E.g. a barcode reader that would scan each CD's barcode and display all that? And how do you associate that information with your sound files?


Online database (or scan) PS. You will never look at those scans, ever in your entire life. CD barcode is only a number.



> My CD collection is organised in a chronological-analogical way. I have medieval, baroque, classical, romantic etc. in that order. Within these, I have the composers by date of birth. Within the composers, I have the works by number of instruments: sonatas, duos, quartets, orchestra, orchestra with soloists and choir. How do I replicate that classification in a digital storage system that allows me to browse per genre / period?


Tagging (online database, or by hand) is the most complete and versatile solution. Alternatively, by folder structure (like your shelves).



> A titanesque task ahead, but I suppose I'd better start somewhere...


You can always pay someone else to do it. ($$$$)


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## Jeremy Marchant

popof said:


> So far, I have been using only my CD player, amplifier and loudspeakers to listen to my CDs. I do not plan to stop spinning CDs, but a backup of all my CDs looks like a good idea.


Why??
Do you anticipate losing your CDs? Do you think they are going to degrade in some way? Or that you won't have access to a CD player in the future?

If the answer to all these questions is no, then I respectfully suggest that backing up your CDs is a waste of time and money and will achieve nothing except (with one proviso) recordings of lower quality than the original.

The proviso is that I have heard convincing demos of CDs copied with sufficiently sophisticated software, and replayed through sufficiently expensive DACs (specifically Linn Klimax) that the sound quality is better than the same CDs played through comparable CD players (Klimax again). In this case, the purpose of making the copies is not for backup but for enhanced listening pleasure, something rather different. At something like 7 mins per disc, it will take some time to copy them all, and you'll need a decent DAC, too.


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## bigshot

Therenis a huge advantage of having a music server rather than physical CDs. It puts your whole collection in front of you at once and enables sorting and random playing.

I have a very sophisticated music server. It's Mac Mini based. The cheapest Mac Mini is all you need and it comes with everything you need. The DAC, soundcard and CD drive are all built in and have perfect sound. I think the Mini runs about $600. It is a wonderful computer. It even can be used with a remote. All you'll need with it is a keyboard, mouse and cheap monitor. There is a big advantage to having a dedicated music computer. You can keep it with your stereo components so it's handy.

I rip my CDs into iTunes as AAC 256 VBR files. They are very small and sound just as good as the original CD. It takes a long time to rip CDs, but it's worth it. My classical library is up to 60 days now and I've been ripping in my free time for several months.

My stereo system is very sophisticated. It's part of a hidef theater with 5:1 surround sound. The Mini can handle all that right out of the box. I really don't know why anyone would use anything else for this particular purpose.

I can't help you with PCs, because it's more complicated. But if you are willing to invest a little money into a Mac Mini, I'd be happy to help you get started on the right track.


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## popof

Thanks for useful info.

Unfortunately it would seem that the cheapest way to backup all my CDs, complete with their covers and booklets, would be to buy each CD twice...

Jeremy has a good point. Why backup? - The fact is that it would take a pretty big disaster for my collection to be annihilated. Within the past 2 years, it has survived over 50 earthquakes magnitude 5 and more, my city (Christchurch) has been destroyed... yet my CD collection is still here (and my house too, incidentally!).

I was just wondering if, at this point in time, there is a solution that would make such a backup easy... but obviously there isn't.


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## Ukko

popof said:


> Thanks for useful info.
> 
> Unfortunately it would seem that the cheapest way to backup all my CDs, complete with their covers and booklets, would be to buy each CD twice...
> 
> Jeremy has a good point. Why backup? - The fact is that it would take a pretty big disaster for my collection to be annihilated. Within the past 2 years, it has survived over 50 earthquakes magnitude 5 and more, my city (Christchurch) has been destroyed... yet my CD collection is still here (and my house too, incidentally!).
> 
> I was just wondering if, at this point in time, there is a solution that would make such a backup easy... but obviously there isn't.


Hmm. I was unaware of the Christchurch situation; there must be a defect in my news gathering.

Regarding backup, 'easy' is a subjective concept. So... here is my solution:

There is an electronic/mechanical device named 'the brennan', made in Great Britain (and not cheap). The model I have contains a 500GB harddrive. CDs may be inserted. The firmware facilitates copying the contents to the harddrive, identified by CD and track if the CD is in the device's database (CDDB) The data for unrecognized CDs can be entered manually, but it's a tedious process. The harddrive will hold ~3000 CDs worth of music if one selects 320KB/s MP3 as the format. The contents of the on-board harddrive can be backed-up to an external harddrive, via USB cable using the _brennan_'s firmware menu.

The attractiveness of this device for me is that it is connected to my living room music system (best sound, most comfort). When I have listened to a CD and determined that I will probably want to come back to it multiple times, I slide it into the brennan. Thus it becomes a repository for the (at least potentially) favorite music in my collection.

I'm pretty sure that all this doesn't directly answer your need; I'm shooting for indirectly.


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## bigshot

I think a good insurance policy is what you're looking for.


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## regnaDkciN

If you have a Windows system rather than a Mac, I would recommend the freeware Exact Audio Copy and compress to FLAC. If you're somewhat compulsive, use the AccurateRip feature that will compare the checksum of each track to a database of known versions of the disc, which is good for catching errors caused by a drive or media problem. And create a CUE sheet (under the Actions menu) after you've finished ripping the CD. What you'll wind up with is a folder-worth of FLAC files, one per track (ideal for use in a music server) plus, if you use software like ImgBurn and load the CUE sheet, you can eventually burn a CD that's bit-identical with the original.


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## bigshot

Have you ever found an error? I've ripped thousand of CDs using iTunes with the check rips box checked and I've never had a single error. My music plays 24/7 and if there had been a glitch, I would have heard it by now.


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## campy

bigshot said:


> Have you ever found an error? I've ripped thousand of CDs using iTunes with the check rips box checked and I've never had a single error. My music plays 24/7 and if there had been a glitch, I would have heard it by now.


I use iTunes and I get errors sometimes. Had one yesterday, in fact. I then tried the disc in Exact Audio Copy and got errors there too. Luckily, iTunes on another computer in the house ripped the disc cleanly.


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## regnaDkciN

bigshot said:


> Have you ever found an error? I've ripped thousand of CDs using iTunes with the check rips box checked and I've never had a single error. My music plays 24/7 and if there had been a glitch, I would have heard it by now.


Yes, I have -- mainly with used CDs.


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## bigshot

I wonder if the problem is the CD, the software or the drive. I tend to think it's the CD and the drive more than anything else.


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## Ukko

EAC finds errors. Itunes, who knows.


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## bigshot

Like I say, I've never had an error in iTunes after thousands of rips, so I don't know.


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## Ukko

bigshot said:


> Like I say, I've never had an error in iTunes after thousands of rips, so I don't know.


¿You aren't aware of the Hidden Hiccups?


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## bigshot

I run my server 24/7 and there haven't been any hiccups. I check the safe rips box when I rip and most of my cds are in good shape.


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## Ukko

bigshot said:


> I run my server 24/7 and there haven't been any hiccups. I check the safe rips box when I rip and most of my cds are in good shape.


I don't doubt that at all. I'm referring to the difference between bit-for-bit parity and automatic error correction.


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## Philip

You have to keep in mind that bigshot is constantly trying to clear up his conscience for using Apple products


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## bigshot

Ha! I'm so guilty over it, I'm having the time of my life.

Hilltroll, error correction normally puts things back to bit perfect again. But I don't worry about things I can't hear, and I haven't run into any error I can hear yet. I think people let their OCD overcome common sense sometimes.


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## Philip

bigshot said:


> Hilltroll, error correction normally puts things back to bit perfect again. But I don't worry about things I can't hear, and I haven't run into any error I can hear yet. I think people let their OCD overcome common sense sometimes.


Perhaps you've never borrowed a CD from the library?


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## bigshot

No, I have too many of my own to listen to. Besides, ripping CDs from the library would be A CRIMINAL ACT! Heaven forbid!


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