# About how big is the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden?



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

This is a question for those who have attended both the Metropolitan Opera and London's Royal Opera House. Last year I was in the Met for the first time, to see L'ELISIR D'AMORE, and was truly amazed at the size of that house. I mean, I expected it to be big, but it exceeded my expectations in this respect. It's enormous (I was sitting upstairs, in the second-to-last row of the Family Circle). Currently, I'm watching the 2011 DVD of TOSCA from Covent Garden and am wondering how big that opera house actually is. My idea is that it's smaller than the Met -- and small enough so that more truly intimate productions are possible (at the Met, it's as though "intimate" is not really all that intimate, if you know what I mean). So, how does the Royal Opera House compare to the Met, with respect to size? And does anyone have any interesting memories of attending the Royal Opera?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The ROH is considerably smaller ... not quite half the seating, i.e. 2256 seats against the Met's approx. 4000.

While I haven't been in the Met, I have been to Covent Garden a few times to see both the Opera, the Royal Ballet and one time to see the NY City Ballet, all before the most recent updates to the house. My favourite recollection was seeing Salome from the seating below the lowest box level on the right of this picture, and just beyond the orchestra pit. It was quite an experience.
View attachment 96026


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I have been in both - though the ROH only once - and it felt significantly smaller, but not intimate.

The orchestra (floor) section of the Metropolitan Opera House has more than 1500 seats. The Royal Opera House at Covent Garden has less than 600 seats in the orchestra.

Another data point: War Memorial Opera House in San Francisco has a capacity of 3,126. Almost 1200 of these are in the orchestra. It does not feel that much larger than the ROH.

Stopera in Amsterdam, home of Dutch National Opera, holds 1600 and felt significantly more intimate, though again I've only been there once.


Though I may have a different idea of intimate: the last place I saw an opera had a capacity of 80. I sat in the front row and at times the singers were within arm's distance.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Becca said:


> The ROH is considerably smaller ... not quite half the seating, i.e. 2256 seats against the Met's approx. 4000.
> 
> While I haven't been in the Met, I have been to Covent Garden a few times to see both the Opera, the Royal Ballet and one time to see the NY City Ballet, all before the most recent updates to the house. My favourite recollection was seeing Salome from the seating below the lowest box level on the right of this picture, and just beyond the orchestra pit. It was quite an experience.
> View attachment 96026


Interesting. It seems the Royal Opera House is basically the same size as the Opera House at the Kennedy Center, which I've been in more times than I can count; the Kennedy Center Opera House has 2,362 seats:









I remember the first time I walked into a Broadway theater (1992, to see LES MISERABLES), I was astonished at how small it was, because I was expecting something similar to the Kennedy Center Opera House.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

mountmccabe said:


> I have been in both - though the ROH only once - and it felt significantly smaller, but not intimate.
> 
> The orchestra (floor) section of the Metropolitan Opera House has more than 1500 seats. The Royal Opera House at Covent Garden has less than 600 seats in the orchestra.
> 
> ...


The last place you mention sounds a little like The Barns at Wolf Trap (in Virginia). It seats 350-400 people, I think:


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> Interesting. It seems the Royal Opera House is basically the same size as the Opera House at the Kennedy Center, which I've been in more times than I can count; the Kennedy Center Opera House has 2,362 seats:
> 
> View attachment 96028
> 
> ...


Interestingly, the Broadway production of _Les Misérables_ opened with an 8-week tryout at the Kennedy Center Opera House before transferring to Broadway. (Of course, the musical had been seen in the original French first several years earlier and then ran for over a year in the West End before the pre-Broadway tryout in D.C. opened).

The musical opened at The Broadway Theater, which is one of the biggest at 1761 (beat only by the Lyric Theatre holds 1938, the Gershwin Theater holds 1933). But by 1992 the musical had transferred to the Imperial Theatre, which only holds 1443.

The smallest Broadway theater is the Helen Hayes, which holds 597. It mostly hosts plays, but as recently as 2011-2015 it had _Rock Of Ages_ (which opened and ran for a few years at the Brooks Atkinson Theatre).

I been to the Gershwin Theater, to see _Wicked_. It seems amazing that it only holds a few hundred fewer than the Royal Opera House!

It is one of the newer theaters, built in 1972, opening as the Uris Theater. It held the original run of Stephen Sondheim's _Sweeney Todd_, opening in 1979. it is also where Houston Grand Opera's 1976 production of _Porgy and Bess_ transferred after it was given in Houston.

The original Broadway performances of _Porgy and Bess_ 1935 were at the Alvin Theatre, now known as the Neil Simon. It holds 1467. The only show I've seen there is _Jesus Christ Superstar_ in 2012, in a production by Des McAnuff (who also directed the recent _Faust_ at the Metropolitan Opera. I disliked both productions).


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Becca said:


> The ROH is considerably smaller ... not quite half the seating, i.e. 2256 seats against the Met's approx. 4000.
> 
> While I haven't been in the Met, I have been to Covent Garden a few times to see both the Opera, the Royal Ballet and one time to see the NY City Ballet, all before the most recent updates to the house. My favourite recollection was seeing Salome from the seating below the lowest box level on the right of this picture, and just beyond the orchestra pit. It was quite an experience.
> View attachment 96026


Wow! Looks very impressive!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Wow! Looks very impressive!


Not if you sitting on the side balconies ( near the stage) you hardly see a thing.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

If you're at the back of the gods (amphitheatre) in Covent Garden the only intimacy is with your fellow opera-goers squeezed alongside you, although for a star-studded night it's worth doing if necessary. Unusual for opera houses the amphitheatre (i.e. top tier) has lots of rows, the lower portion is pretty excellent for sight and sound.

I love everything about the Met, except for the sheer size of the auditorium and didn't enjoy being in the stalls, much better up a couple of tiers. How's the NY City Opera doing? Does NYC have a full time second opera house now?


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Don Fatale said:


> If you're at the back of the gods (amphitheatre) in Covent Garden the only intimacy is with your fellow opera-goers squeezed alongside you, although for a star-studded night it's worth doing if necessary. Unusual for opera houses the amphitheatre (i.e. top tier) has lots of rows, the lower portion is pretty excellent for sight and sound.


You beat me to it, I was just about to post a similar reply. If you're right at the very back of the amphitheatre, the figures on stage are reduced to matchstick size.

The plus for me is that I'm vertically challenged when I sit down, being relatively small in the first place, but with disproportionately long legs. The amphitheatre is one of the very few places where I know that I'll be able to see the whole stage regardless of the size of the person sitting in front of me. It's not for anyone who doesn't like heights though, it's very steeply tiered.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> How's the NY City Opera doing? Does NYC have a full time second opera house now?


It is gone. In its place are ballets, etc.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

It has come back around the corner, though it is not a full-time company by any means. NYCO's 2017-18 season includes 4 full productions at Jazz at Lincoln Center’s Rose Theater. It holds about 1100, so quite a bit smaller than the Koch Theater (formerly the New York State Theater). And that house, from its opening, was always shared with the New York City Ballet.

The NYCO season also includes a couple of in-concert performances in Zankel Hall at Carnegie Hall, and two chamber operas. They have not announced where the latter are happening.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

mountmccabe said:


> Interestingly, the Broadway production of _Les Misérables_ opened with an 8-week tryout at the Kennedy Center Opera House before transferring to Broadway. (Of course, the musical had been seen in the original French first several years earlier and then ran for over a year in the West End before the pre-Broadway tryout in D.C. opened).
> 
> The musical opened at The Broadway Theater, which is one of the biggest at 1761 (beat only by the Lyric Theatre holds 1938, the Gershwin Theater holds 1933). But by 1992 the musical had transferred to the Imperial Theatre, which only holds 1443.
> 
> ...


Yes, I did see LES MIS at the Imperial Theater, which is rather intimate. Then, in 1994, I saw CRAZY FOR YOU at the Schubert Theatre, which I remember as relatively big and elaborate.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Don Fatale said:


> If you're at the back of the gods (amphitheatre) in Covent Garden the only intimacy is with your fellow opera-goers squeezed alongside you, although for a star-studded night it's worth doing if necessary. Unusual for opera houses the amphitheatre (i.e. top tier) has lots of rows, the lower portion is pretty excellent for sight and sound.


I think this is one thing that contributed to me thinking of Covent Garden as a large place; it is very tall.

Many of the Broadway theaters are very wide, but shallow, and with fewer tiers that are less high. Musical theater is often written as more intimate, with more importance on the acting (so it helps when the patrons are closer and can see faces). Opera often relies less on facial details, so perhaps it makes most sense to allow more people to see the stage more or less straight on to get a good overall picture.



Pugg said:


> Not if you sitting on the side balconies ( near the stage) you hardly see a thing.


Yeah, those seats do not offer a good view of the stage. I suppose it's a throwback to when Opera Houses (and other theaters) were more of a gathering place, where people went to see and be seen (rather than worry about what was on stage). If you wanted to spend your time seeing who so-and-so has in their box this week, or to pick out the best furs on the people in the center orchestra, or just want to be able to bring people to the opera without having to interact with the lower classes then the side boxes are nice.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

mountmccabe said:


> Yeah, those seats do not offer a good view of the stage. I suppose it's a throwback to when Opera Houses (and other theaters) were more of a gathering place, where people went to see and be seen (rather than worry about what was on stage). If you wanted to spend your time seeing who so-and-so has in their box this week, or to pick out the best furs on the people in the center orchestra, or just want to be able to bring people to the opera without having to interact with the lower classes then the side boxes are nice.


I'm going back a good few years, but for a while there were some seats at the side on the lowest level, close to the stage, which still gave a good view and cost little more than the front amphitheatre. The only part of the stage you couldn't see was a little bit at the side on which you were sitting. I was a "Friend" in those days, so had priority booking. I'd guess they all used to go before the public booking opened. I sat in them in a few times, but then the ROH cottoned on and the price of them suddenly shot up to a silly amount.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> Yeah, those seats do not offer a good view of the stage. I suppose it's a throwback to when Opera Houses (and other theaters) were more of a gathering place, where people went to see and be seen (rather than worry about what was on stage). If you wanted to spend your time seeing who so-and-so has in their box this week, or to pick out the best furs on the people in the center orchestra, or just want to be able to bring people to the opera without having to interact with the lower classes then the side boxes are nice.


When visiting London those where the only seats available, so sometimes one has no choice.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> It is gone. In its place are ballets, etc.


I apologize. I am obviously incorrect. They are s till producing some operas at the NYCO. Forgive my stupidity.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

nina foresti said:


> I apologize. I am obviously incorrect. They are s till producing some operas at the NYCO. Forgive my stupidity.


But it seems, far from a proper opera season. Feels disappointing (as an opera fan) that one of the world's greatest cities can't support a second full-time house. I'd love to see a small house company in operation there. It may even encourage me to pay a visit.

Back on topic... ENO (London's second opera house) actually has a slightly higher capacity than Covent Garden... and with its shape and better sightlines is more suited to ballet than opera.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

I saw 3 operas at ROH in 1990: Rosenkavalier with Tate, Prince Igor with Haitink, and Elektra with Solti.
I remember them all quite clearly.
I also remember the chaos in the box office that same year when tickets went on sale for Kleiber conducting Othello with Domingo, which I missed out on. I did wonder whether I could have picked up a return when Domingo subsequently withdrew with flu, but I doubt anyone would return Kleiber tickets. I may even have hung around on the night to see if I could somehow get in, but I don't remember.
(Confession time - I did once sneak into Acts 2 & 3 of Siegfried at Bayreuth without a ticket!)
Although I lived in London for nearly a year, I somehow never got to ENO.

Saw 2 operas at the Met in Nov 1990. I forget the conductors (Levine?), but one was Boris Godunov, where every voice (even the women!) seemed pitched at baritone or lower, and the other was Verdi's Masked Ball, with Pavarotti making what must have been one of his last live appearances in an on-stage opera as opposed to celebrity football stadium gigs. I guess he was pre-booked before the World Cup and chose not to cancel. Nice for me!
cheers,
Graeme


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi Graeme, I was at the Otello with Kleiber where Domingo was indisposed. It was 15 Jan 1990. Jeffrey Lawton stood in, and got a rapturous reception. The orchestra under Kleiber was electrifying, searing, scintillating. Covent Garden (except the auditorium) is unrecognisable now compared to 1990. The public areas (the old floral hall) are quite something.

FYI, Pavarotti was singing operas into this century. I saw him at the Met in Aida in 2000.

ps. well done on sneaking into Bayreuth. I can't top that!


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

GraemeG said:


> I also remember the chaos in the box office that same year when tickets went on sale for Kleiber conducting Othello with Domingo, which I missed out on. I did wonder whether I could have picked up a return when Domingo subsequently withdrew with flu, but I doubt anyone would return Kleiber tickets. I may even have hung around on the night to see if I could somehow get in, but I don't remember.
> Graeme


You could have had my ticket! I'd bought it before I'd heard Otello only to discover that, despite playing it over and over again, I really, really struggled with it. I persevered, because Domingo had been given so much acclaim for the role that I felt, having been lucky enough to have a ticket, that I really should experience hearing him sing it. When I discovered that he'd withdrawn, I sold the ticket on the night (for its face value) to a Kleiber fan and spent the money on Carreras CDs. As the Carreras CDs still give me pleasure and having watched the Kaufmann Otello recently and discovered that I still struggle with it to this day, I have no regrets.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, fancy that! The magic of the internet brings us together with our shared experience nearly 30 years later!
Obviously not everyone on the web is a pimply 19-year-old!
Actually, sometime in the last year or so on the wine-pages.co.uk website there was someone who heard Furtwangler conduct at the RFH in the BPO's first post-war tour to London.
Remarkable!
cheers,
Graeme


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

May I join this party?.

Dame Belowpar and I queued for that production. At the time we spent many evenings up in the slips, probably next to you lot. We were advised that normally you could get day tickets from 9 in the morning, but for something like that don’t be later than 6. We decided to be sure and get there early.

SO on a freezing night we arrived after a short kip about 3 in the morning to see a pleasingly short line of people ahead of us. When we started to talk to them, we discovered we were now queuing for returns! Apparently by the time the previous night’s performance had ended there were already enough people in line to take all the day tickets. Due to the extreme cold, Covent Garden staff had issued raffle tickets to them and invited them to return at 8 the next morning.

Never did get to see Domingo in Otello and wasted a day’s holiday to boot. 




As an aside I recall Jeremy Issacs referring to the “Slips crowd” shortly after he took over. He said the reduced prices didn’t really encourage a more diverse audience, instead it meant the same people were able to go EVERY night. Amongst the regulars I recall a bus conductor and a secretary being there every time I went. They refused to talk to each other as did the two barmen in the crush Bar! One of whom had a luxuriant ‘syrup’. Happy memories.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Belowpar said:


> May I join this party?.


Yes of course!

Those were the days! I could get a £14 return on the bus to take me from Newcastle to Victoria, a ticket for a tenner in the slips (I've got a recollection that even the Domingo one was only £19), and relatives in the Walthamstow area with whom I could stay. I'd travel down on a Thursday afternoon, queue at the half price ticket stand in Leicester Square for tickets to a West End show on the Friday afternoon, meet up with my aunt in the evening and take her to the theatre, go to the ROH on the Saturday, then travel back on the Sunday ready for work the next day.


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