# SS 29.10.16 - Rachmaninoff #1



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening! 
_*
*_For your listening pleasure this weekend:*

Sergei Rachmaninoff (1873 - 1943)*

Symphony No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 13

1. Grave - Allegro non troppo
2. Allegro animato
3. Larghetto
4. Allegro con fuoco

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Another weekend is here so I hope everyone will join in and give the Saturday Symphony a listen. This weekend it's Rachmaninoff's first. I haven't heard this one in a while either so I'm looking forward to giving it a listen. I think I will go with:









Mariss Jansons/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra


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## shadowdancer (Mar 31, 2014)

I will join this weekend with the only record that I have. 
Never really got into this symphony.
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Orchestra
Vladimir Ashkenazy, Conductor
Rec August 1982


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

shadowdancer said:


> I will join this weekend with the only record that I have.
> Never really got into this symphony.
> Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Orchestra
> Vladimir Ashkenazy, Conductor
> Rec August 1982


I go with this one also.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

I'll be listening to Vasily Petrenko & the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. Sorry about the picture size - I cannot seem to resize it from my phone.






​


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I'll go with Dutoit and the Philadelphia. It's so hard to imagine this symphony being a catastrophe at its premier. Rachmaninoff was Rachmaninoff right from the beginning of his career as a composer.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I'll listen to Previn/LSO here.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

shadowdancer said:


> I will join this weekend with the only record that I have.
> Never really got into this symphony.
> Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Orchestra
> Vladimir Ashkenazy, Conductor
> Rec August 1982


Man, and I just played it last week. Well, onto next Saturday (Glazunov's Sixth Symphony maybe?).


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

I'll listen to *Jansons* conducting the St. Petersburg PO:










If I have the time, I may also give *Ashkenazy* with the Concertgebouw a spin on the turntable:


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

I really like this symphony, so I'm looking forward to having something of a Rach 1-athon this weekend 
In my very humble opinion, the Ashkenazy / Concertgebouw is the best recording, but I have a few more to compare and look forward to reading what others think of the various recordings out there.
All being well, I shall listen to: 
Moscow State SO / Pavel Kogan (Alto)
Gdansk Philharmonic / Pavel Przytocki (Onyx)
BBC Welsh SO / Tadaaki Otaka (Nimbus)
BBC Philharmonic / Gianandrea Noseda (Chandos)
LSO / Previn (HMV)
Detroit SO / Slatkin (Naxos)


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Orfeo said:


> Man, and I just played it last week. Well, onto next Saturday (Glazunov's Sixth Symphony maybe?).


Glazunov's Sixth is on the list and coming up, but it's not next week as there are still a few that got more votes.


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## Marsilius (Jun 13, 2015)

The Moscow State SO / Pavel Kogan recording of Rachmaninoff 1 is superb.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2016)

I have not much choice in this repertoire but I hope this will do just fine.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

https://musescore.com/user/539481/scores/1226641

Someone has transcribed symphony no 1 for organ. Complete!


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Traverso said:


> I have not much choice in this repertoire but I hope this will do just fine.


This one for me too


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

AClockworkOrange said:


> I'll be listening to Vasily Petrenko & the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. Sorry about the picture size - I cannot seem to resize it from my phone.
> 
> View attachment 89782​


Love RLPO with Vasily Petrenko. Saw them live last year and they were amazing!!


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

AClockworkOrange said:


> I'll be listening to Vasily Petrenko & the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. Sorry about the picture size - I cannot seem to resize it from my phone.
> 
> View attachment 89782​


Will listen Petrenko also.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm going with Weller and the Suisse Romande.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ashkenazy seems to be in favour.


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## Bayreuth (Jan 20, 2015)

shadowdancer said:


> I will join this weekend with the only record that I have.
> Never really got into this symphony.
> Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Orchestra
> Vladimir Ashkenazy, Conductor
> Rec August 1982


The same one for me


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

I love Ashkenazy's recording, too. But I'll change it up a bit with this one.









Singapore Symphony Orchestra
Lan Shui (conductor)


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Marsilius said:


> The Moscow State SO / Pavel Kogan recording of Rachmaninoff 1 is superb.


Unfortunately however I made an error; my recording by this orchestra & conductor is of the 3rd symphony _not_ the 1st so I won't be including it  Sorry.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Ashkenazy again, from that superb box set. 

From the Rough Guide: "The premiere of Rachmaninov's first symphony was a spectacular failure thanks to its conductor, Glazunov, who arrived at the podium tanked up on Vodka and turned the performance into a humiliation for the young composer..." 

Rachmaninov then withdrew it and never heard it again. Bad Glazunov! Probably jealous... it's a wonderful, fiery, young man's symphony.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Judith said:


> Love RLPO with Vasily Petrenko. Saw them live last year and they were amazing!!


I just heard his Shostakovich #10 in that highly praised Naxos series and was totally blown away.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Mal said:


> I just heard his Shostakovitch #10 in that highly praised Naxos series and was totally blown away.


Listen to his Shostakovich 5 - it'll knock your socks off!  (sorry this is OT)


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Gdansk Philharmonie / Przytocki (Onyx/Point Productions, 1991)

I bought this at a second-hand CD store a few years back for £1.50. It's not a great recording, but it's well worth £1.50. The first movement opens a little timidly, but gets into it's stride reasonably well, though in the main climax of the movement there appears to be no glockenspiel. The slower section is rather nicely done - the strings don't sound too thin. The build up to the end of the movement is taken a little slower than I'm used to, but that's no bad thing and I wish the timpani didn't sound so 'muddy'.
The second movement is rather well done - it maintains a fairly brisk but not too fast tempo, carefully maintains the delicate feel of all the string and woodwind exchanges and doesn't go overboard during the short and sparse full orchestra outburst.
The slow movement on the other hand seems to wander a little aimlessly - it feels as though it's going through the motions but is ultimately bored; solo and ensemble phrases start well but then 'disappear' rather than end, particularly during the first few minutes. I wonder however if this is more to do with the recording than the performance as it does sound altogether more distant.
The finale opening certainly wakes you up though, but the strings struggle a little to keep together during the horn/string exchange just after the opening. The pace during the first part is okay and those big climaxes deliver plenty of cymbal, though overall the recording of the percussion is restrained which is fine, and I'm impressed with the horns and their long notes.
The string build-up to the main body of the movement is sluggish which makes the whole section feel a bit tired and lack-lustre, but the pace picks up a bit at the climax ending with a loud, rather tinny tam-tam and far too short a rest. The build up to the end is a hurried affair - this is a million miles from Ashkenazy's huge, grandiose interpretation - but it slows down at the very end with a better sounding tam-tam and good separation between the final two notes. 
This is never going to be the best Rachmaninov 1st on the market, but if you can pick it up for next-to-nothing, it's well worth a listen.


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

I will listen to it here along with excerpts from Mahler 8:









But seriously, Leonard Slatkin / St. Louis.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

motoboy said:


> I will listen to it here along with excerpts from Mahler 8:
> 
> View attachment 89809
> 
> ...


Ah... Horner's danger motive 

1 minute in...






Back on topic, the Ashkenazy box set.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

James Horner was adept at 'borrowing' other composers' themes and styles. Listen to the soundtrack from 'The Land Before Time'; it's pure Prokofiev.

Meanwhile back on topic:

Detroit Symphony Orchestra / Leonard Slatkin (Naxos, 2012)

Joining the budget category of Rachmaninov's 1st's is this Naxos recording from 2012. The first thing to say is that Slatkin has included a tam-tam in those initial big opening chords; a nice effect but it's not in the score. The remainder of the movement is well played and includes a beautifully recorded flute solo in the second half, though overall the recording is very dry.
The second movement doesn't have the restraint that I liked in the Gdansk recording (see above), quite the opposite; it's an aggressive interpretation.
The 3rd movement is far better however than in the Gdansk recording; the individual instruments and ensembles come forward where necessary and the whole thing has the kind of gentleness missing in the 2nd movement. The ominous second subject is truly frightening without relying merely on volume, but happily that gorgeous flute wins through and everything feels more peaceful again.
The opening to the last movement loses the clashing cymbals of the Gdansk, which is a pity, in fact it almost sounds stately! The dryness of the recording doesn't help this movement at all; instead it sounds clinical - sanitised. The climactic build-up to the tam-tam stroke (the part that sounds so much like the last movement of the 'Symphonic Dances') works okay but the strings are _so_ not together in some of this it's hard to believe (they've found the cymbal player though!). The Detroit tam-tam is bigger and quieter than Gdansk's, and the following build up to the coda slower and more akin to Ashkenzy in terms of pace and feel, but unfortunately Slatkin speeds up just a bit for the closing bars though the final two notes are excellent.
Overall I was disappointed with this recording.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Looking forward to this one


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Hmm - Id like to hear that Gergiev recording 

Meanwhile, here's my take on the Previn recording:

London Symphony Orchestra / Andre Previn (HMV Classics 1975, remastered 1993)

Previn includes a tam-tam in those first 3 big chords as well, but it's not quite as pronounced as Slatkins. It has to be said that this interpretation and recording oozes quality, you can hear every nuance of the phrasing whether it's solo or ensemble, though I wonder if the diminuendo at the end of the main loud part in this movement has been rather over-enhanced through engineering. 
The second movement is far slower than I'm used to - 9.21 as opposed to Slatkins 8.28 and Przytocki's brisk 7.42 (for comparison, Ashkenazy goes at 7.44) - so it sounds sluggish initially, but about half-way through I got used to it and almost forgave it, mostly due to the excellent playing and sound quality. Despite the slow pace, it still has the gentle quality I like in this movement rather than Slatkins' aggressive punchiness.
Previn's slow movement is exactly the same timing as Slatkin (9.55), and is a beautiful interpretation which takes you into a world from which you are really jolted by the opening of the finale! This is a really fast intro, but it slows down as the side drum roll diminishes and maintains a reasonable pace with tinkling triangle and tambourine and thudding timps and bass drum. In this recording you can hear the side drum make a reappearance before the quieter oboe solo. Anyhow the whole things builds up tremendously ending in a fiercely hissing tam-tam which is allowed to ring on. Everything to this point has been very, very good; but for me this performance now goes _completely_ wrong with a far too fast coda and an odd additional tam-tam just before the two final chords.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*Rachmaninov*: Symphony 1, w. St. Petersburg PO/Jansons. Recorded 1998, Philharmonic Hall, St. Petersburg. Recording Engineer: Mike Clements.


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## PeterF (Apr 17, 2014)

My only version is by Ashkenazy, so will play it tomorrow.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Mal said:


> Ashkenazy again, from that superb box set.
> 
> From the Rough Guide: "The premiere of Rachmaninov's first symphony was a spectacular failure thanks to its conductor, *Glazunov, who arrived at the podium tanked up on Vodka *and turned the performance into a humiliation for the young composer..."
> 
> Rachmaninov then withdrew it and never heard it again. Bad Glazunov! Probably jealous... it's a wonderful, fiery, young man's symphony.


It is not proven to be true. If anything, Glazunov made poor use of rehearsals, never fully studied the score, and the orchestra, the St. Petersburg Musical Society, was ill-equipped to perform this great, yet complex work. And the conservative establishment was not ready to receive the work, and attacked it and Rachmaninoff rather mercilessly.

And besides, let's say that Glazunov was drunk. Then why would he be allowed to conduct the programme?


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm a bit late on this one, but I saw the thread and felt like listening to it. This symphony has all of the qualities I expect from the Russian Romantics; it is powerfully emotional, and the orchestration is colorful and interesting. I listened to the St. Louis Symphony/Slatkin recording.

(Incidentally, the Slatkin recording is available as part of a $10 Vox Box download on U.S. Amazon containing about 8 hours of Rachmaninoff's concertos and orchestral music - a great way to get a lot of Rachmaninoff's music for very little money.)


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Third ear suggests that Slatkin's perfomance isn't very intense, and not up to the standards of Ashkenazy & the Concertgebouew. It suggests that only Jansons and Previn compare in the symphonies, and that Ashkenazy is "preeminent" and "all that most collectors will need to feel content" as regards Rachs orchestral music. I've certainly not felt the need to explore beyond Ashkenazy. What do others think? Are there more recent performances that are better? Are the extra works that Slatkin provides worth exploring?


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## Weird Heather (Aug 24, 2016)

I would agree that Ashkenazy is the golden standard here, though I found Slatkin's performance satisfying today. It's been a while since I have listened to most of the others in the set, so my memory is a bit vague, and maybe there are others who have listened to some of the other recordings more recently. I seem to listen to Rachmaninoff sporadically; I get in the mood and listen to a few pieces, and then move on to something else. There is so much music in my collection that it is hard to spend much time on the work of any one composer. Aside from the price, two things attracted me to that $10 download set. One was to get additional performances of the better known works - nice, but not absolutely necessary considering that I already had many of Ashkenazy's recordings. The other was to pick up recordings of those miscellaneous single-movement orchestral pieces and symphonic poems which don't show up as frequently, most of which were not yet in my collection. They are worth having, and if you don't already have recordings of them, $10 is a reasonable price, even just for that portion of the collection, though I am sure there are other suitable options out there. These sorts of pieces unfortunately tend to get overshadowed by multi-movement symphonies and concertos. I couldn't just listen to one work by Rachmaninoff today; after the first symphony, I listened to "Isle of the Dead" from that cheap Vox Box, and if anything, it grabbed me more strongly than the symphony did. It is a thoroughly satisfying twenty minutes of slow, moody music. Maybe we need to start a series of threads of "Saturday symphonic poems and other one-movement orchestral pieces."


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> Maybe we need to start a series of threads of "Saturday symphonic poems and other one-movement orchestral pieces."


Go right ahead - sounds like a great idea


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Weird Heather said:


> "Saturday symphonic poems and other one-movement orchestral pieces."


Why not choose a different day? You could base it on the "sticky" in this forum of "top orchestral pieces". Isle of the Dead is in there!


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