# Is anyone else bothered by incompleteness?



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Completeness bothers me more. Those conductors/orchestras who record all of Haydn's symphonies, do they really like them all? I doubt it. I'd rather hear them play the ones they really, really like.

Ah, I didn't read carefully. You're talking about completeness in a single work, especially a work that is made up of separate parts. If they were meant to be heard together, then incompleteness in Grieg's lyric pieces would probably bother me. Just as hearing a few select songs from my beloved Schubert song cycles "Winterreise" and "Die Schoene Muellerin" would really bother me.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


I think it all depends on 'who is king'. 
If the composer is king, then yes: highlights and bits annoy me.

But there are, just occasionally, times when 'performer is king (or queen)'. And I would rather listen to Callas doing 'Puccini and Bellini highlights' than not hear her. Assuming that those recordings were as she made them: that the marketing droids from the recording company haven't just ripped some bits out of whole-opera reecordings, that is. If she recorded this aria then that one and then the other... well, I want to hear that performance!

So then, the 'bitiness' is allowed.

But there are very few artists I can think of that make me make that allowance.

On the specific point about 'a single <artist> doing a whole <thing>'. That bothers me less. It's rare for one artist to be able to maintain the artistic concentration needed throughout a long cycle. Gardiner's Bach Cantatas are quite uneven, I think, as a for-example. So in those cases, I'd prefer to pick and choose their best bits rather than put up with great wodges of stodge with merely a rare current of wonder in the middle of it.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

For all the greatness of some performers, like Maria Callas, I just don't see the point of picking and choosing a part of a larger work. Most of the time for me it's a marketing ploy, even one consciously made by the artist, not only the record company. I'm not saying that artists shouldn't get their dues, but there are some artists below that very high caliber that just do that. For me, don't record it all if you can't handle it. Choose something else. 

On the Bach cantatas. Yes, I agree. But Bach's cantatas weren't written to be played all together, so yeah that annoys me less. Same thing with the Haydn symphonies mentioned by Open Book. Pick the ones you like best or the ones you perform best.


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Some 'complete sets' of pieces were of course never intended to be performed as 'a whole'. Many are just 'pick your favourites'. But collecting complete sets of say 'Haydn symphonies' (as already mentioned) are really a collectors obsession and have very little to do with the actual musical content.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


From what I know, there are complete recordings of those Grieg pieces - Lagerspetz on Finlandia, Nøkleberg on Naxos, Austbø on Brilliant, Knardahl on BIS.

Whereas the old Vox curiously lacks pieces in each opus number.

Famous recitals include Gilels, and Andsnes. Austbø is probably the least inspired of them, IMHO, I got Lagerspetz in stead of Austbø, also owning the Vox, Gilels, and others.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

joen_cph said:


> From what I know, there are complete recordings of those Grieg pieces - Lagerspetz on Finlandia, Nøkleberg on Naxos, Austbø on Brilliant, Knardahl on BIS.
> 
> Whereas the old Vox curiously lacks pieces in each opus number.
> 
> Famous recitals include Gilels, and Andsnes. Austbø is probably the least inspired of them, IMHO, I got Lagerspetz in stead of Austbø, also owning the Vox, Gilels, and others.


I had settled on listening to an Andsnes recording that goes through all 10 books, but doesn't play all the pieces. I will look for the ones you mentioned. Thank you!


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> For all the greatness of some performers, like Maria Callas, I just don't see the point of picking and choosing a part of a larger work. Most of the time for me it's a marketing ploy, even one consciously made by the artist, not only the record company. I'm not saying that artists shouldn't get their dues, but there are some artists below that very high caliber that just do that. For me, don't record it all if you can't handle it. Choose something else.


Well, I think it's got something to do with performance practice of the relevant periods, too. Callas did recitals. Her bejewelled audience were there to see and hear her, not sit through an entire Bellini opera. And recitals were a thing (and still are): if she did recitals (which she did), I'm glad she recorded them. They're a record of something that happened (as opposed to something the marketing droids thought would sell). That stuff should be preserved and celebrated for what it was/is, I think.

But I take your general point. I just think a Rostropovich recital, or a Heifitz one are worth hearing for themselves, not for whether they include complete works or not. But the artists worth that are, indeed, very rare.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I thought Godel took care of that.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Well, I think it's got something to do with performance practice of the relevant periods, too. Callas did recitals. Her bejewelled audience were there to see and hear her, not sit through an entire Bellini opera. And recitals were a thing (and still are): if she did recitals (which she did), I'm glad she recorded them. They're a record of something that happened (as opposed to something the marketing droids thought would sell). That stuff should be preserved and celebrated for what it was/is, I think.
> 
> But I take your general point. I just think a Rostropovich recital, or a Heifitz one are worth hearing for themselves, not for whether they include complete works or not. But the artists worth that are, indeed, very rare.


Yes, I guess you're right. But it's definitely something that works better live than on a record.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I am very much bothered by incompleteness, because it really


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Yes. One of the reasons why my CD collection has spun out of control. I do not need 50 different versions of each work I like, but once I have e.g. some symphonies of a composer I like, I want all of them.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Incompleteness used to bother me, but it doesn't now. I remember when I was looking for a CD set of Liszt's _Hungarian Rhapsodies_ I just had to have a set with all of them, even though I mostly just wanted to hear #2. Recently I'm less picky with this sort of thing. If the works go together but are still separate works (e.g., a composer's symphonies or piano sonatas), I don't care if some artist made a set with just some of them. I don't mind opera highlights albums either. If I like the singer, then having an album with them singing a variety of pieces is enjoyable for me. There are some singers that I wish had highlights albums.

Things that bother me are when works like operas are presented to me as "complete" but have cuts or albums that only give highlights of symphonies or piano sonatas such as those "best of albums" that give you only the 1st movement of Beethoven's 5th, the 4th movement of the 9th, the 1st movement of the "Moonlight" sonata, etc.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> For all the greatness of some performers, like Maria Callas, I just don't see the point of picking and choosing a part of a larger work. Most of the time for me it's a marketing ploy, even one consciously made by the artist, not only the record company. I'm not saying that artists shouldn't get their dues, but there are some artists below that very high caliber that just do that. For me, don't record it all if you can't handle it. Choose something else.
> 
> On the Bach cantatas. Yes, I agree. But Bach's cantatas weren't written to be played all together, so yeah that annoys me less. Same thing with the Haydn symphonies mentioned by Open Book. Pick the ones you like best or the ones you perform best.


Sviatoslav Richter played a lot of Greig. In the box set _Richter in Hungary_ (recorded live) he does just what you're complaining about. He picks and chooses, and assembles a program for his concert. In this case, it works for me. And he's Richter, so he can get away with it.
With works like Debussy's Preludes, I like to hear the whole book, usually Book II, because it seems like a "program" of pieces anyway.
Do the Grieg pieces you speak of seem like they were designed to work as a complete program?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book.


You mean like this? 








It was on the Brilliant Classics label.

Yes, I am a Complete Freak. No question. I lived for a long time with the selections of Songs from the Auvergne (Canteloube) but wasn't satisfied until I got the whole set on Vanguard. I own no cds of highlights from any opera - it's always the whole thing or why bother?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Admittedly, regarding the reading of threads, I'm not always a completist either ...


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I am very much bothered by incompleteness, because it really


You had me. And it is unnerving!


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

millionrainbows said:


> Sviatoslav Richter played a lot of Greig. In the box set _Richter in Hungary_ (recorded live) he does just what you're complaining about. He picks and chooses, and assembles a program for his concert. In this case, it works for me. And he's Richter, so he can get away with it.
> With works like Debussy's Preludes, I like to hear the whole book, usually Book II, because it seems like a "program" of pieces anyway.
> Do the Grieg pieces you speak of seem like they were designed to work as a complete program?


Well, they are arranged in books. So each book is a complete set. I wouldn't mind listening to different pianists play different complete books, but just picking a few of each is really annoying for me. 
Thanks to joen_cph I'm listening to Eva Knardahl's complete recordings and they're wonderful.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> Yes, I am a Complete Freak. No question. I lived for a long time with the selections of Songs from the Auvergne (Canteloube) but wasn't satisfied until I got the whole set on Vanguard. I own no cds of highlights from any opera - it's always the whole thing or why bother?


Yes, I agree. 
What's this complete set of the Songs from the Auvergne that you are talking about? I discovered the work last year, but I think the recording I listened to (by Dawn Upshaw if I remember correctly) wasn't complete.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The Vanguard set with Natania Devrath. Her voice is perfect for the songs - simple, pure and non-operatic.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> I own no cds of highlights from any opera - it's always the whole thing or why bother?


Well, for folks who aren't into opera per se but love some of the music in the opera, it's the perfect way to go.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> Well, for folks who aren't into opera per se but love some of the music in the opera, it's the perfect way to go.


Yeah, I don't mind "bleeding chunks" as long as the chunks feel like complete pieces in their own right. Like, I find it hard to listen to "Ride of the Valkyries" because it blends right into the next scene. But Tannhauser Overture? Sign me up!

So in answer to the OP, incompleteness is fine, as long as it is a completed "thought" so to speak. Schubert's Unfinished or Bruckner's 9th are perfectly satisfying.

I wish Mahler had completed fewer symphonies. I'd like them better 

As far as listening to a complete cycle of this or that, while I certainly strive to over the course of a week or so, I can't do it in one sitting. And is it important to listen to all 104 Haydn symphonies at a stretch? Nah.

I actually just came up against this last night. I was listening to the Beaux Arts "Complete Beethoven Trios" set, which I have been listening to in order over the past week (they're superb). I got to the Symphony No. 2 arranged for Trio, and I thought "do I really have to listen to this?"

Of course, I did end up just listening to the whole thing, but not because it would have irked me to turn it off. I was reading.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Re lieder and piano works: what I do find irritating is when a complete _oeuvre_ has been recorded but there is no rhyme or reason in terms of sequencing (i.e. the splitting up of opus numbers across discs - what's the point in doing it like that when everything is going to be recorded anyway?). The Brahms lieder series on cpo is to be applauded as the cycles are not just kept together but everything is also pretty much in opus number order from the beginning of disc one through to the end of disc nine, with the WoO songs gathered together on a tenth disc.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

I am not bothered by incompleteness, even if I fundamentally am a completist. However things like the Brilliant set of all Haydn's baryton trios seems to me to be overkill.

If I hear an excellent interpretation of say four LvB piano sonatas, I often long for a complete set of the sonatas by the pianist in question, and I would readily accept, if there were some bummers in between. For instance the fact that neither R Serkin nor S Richter recorded all the sonatas is regrettable, because they certainly would have made very fine recordings of most of the sonatas.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Re lieder and piano works: what I do find irritating is when a complete _oeuvre_ has been recorded but there is no rhyme or reason in terms of sequencing (i.e. the splitting up of opus numbers across discs - what's the point in doing it like that when everything is going to be recorded anyway?).


Yugh. Pay no attention to the CD.

Music is to it, as the your mother's message is to the postcard. Pay attention to the message! The rest is just packaging. And yeah, they can be a bit weird with the packaging!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> You mean like this?
> View attachment 150504
> 
> 
> It was on the Brilliant Classics label.


That's the one I have. In fact, there is a seven-disc set of Grieg piano works on Brilliant from the same pianist which incorporates this one.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Yugh. Pay no attention to the CD.
> 
> _Music is to it, as the your mother's message is to the postcard. Pay attention to the message!_ The rest is just packaging. And yeah, they can be a bit weird with the packaging!


Fine, as long as words from the same message aren't spread across numerous postcards.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


When I first read the title of this post, I assumed you meant composer's incomplete works. That would have been interesting to discuss.

So, this is about incomplete recording cycles. Well that depends on business, doesn't it? It's what the recording company thinks will sell. So if one cycle doesn't have a complete oeuvre, then just move on to another alternative.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

premont said:


> For instance the fact that neither R Serkin nor S Richter recorded all the sonatas is regrettable, because they certainly would have made very fine recordings of most of the sonatas.


Maybe they didn't like all the sonatas. Why record something they can't feel strongly about and tarnish their reputations?

I watched a video put online by the Boston Symphony Orchestra this summer. It was the (advanced) student orchestra, the Tanglewood Fellows, in a performance of the Brahms first piano concerto with Paul Lewis.

It was the best thing I have heard Lewis do. So I was most surprised, in the interview that followed, to learn that Lewis has never yet played the Brahms second concerto in public. He said he wasn't ready for it, joked about needing another 10 years to think about it. Sounds like he didn't think he had a convincing viewpoint.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

I want to clarify again that I'm not complaining about someone not recording Haydn's 104 symphonies or the 32 Beethoven piano sonatas.



ArtMusic said:


> When I first read the title of this post, I assumed you meant composer's incomplete works. That would have been interesting to discuss.


An interesting topic, of course. Perhaps you're right, more interesting than mine. But I never meant for it to be interesting anyway. 
Perhaps you could post another thread. My title in that case wouldn't be surely that it bothers or annoys me that composers couldn't or didn't know how to finish their works. I'm only saddened by these kinds of things.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Open Book said:


> Maybe they didn't like all the sonatas. Why record something they can't feel strongly about and tarnish their reputations?


Maybe you are right, and it is just me, but I can't think of any convincing reason why a pianist at the level of Serkin or Richter shouldn't like all the sonatas.


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## EnescuCvartet (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm pretty sure that Eva Knardahl recorded all the Grieg solo piano music. I also think I've seen a set of LPs from a Norwegian label that was specifically the Lyric Pieces, but I can't find it anywhere now.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

0:00 Vorspiel
3:10 Winterstürme wichen dem Wonnemond
6:54 Siegmund! Sieh auf mich.
19:13 Ride - Hojotoho!
35:40 Weis' Ich dir mehr Helden zur Wal
42:20 Der diese Liebe
57:15 Leb wohl


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Open Book said:


> Completeness bothers me more. Those conductors/orchestras who record all of Haydn's symphonies, do they really like them all? I doubt it. I'd rather hear them play the ones they really, really like.
> 
> Ah, I didn't read carefully. You're talking about completeness in a single work, especially a work that is made up of separate parts. If they were meant to be heard together, then incompleteness in Grieg's lyric pieces would probably bother me. Just as hearing a few select songs from my beloved Schubert song cycles "Winterreise" and "Die Schoene Muellerin" would really bother me.


I'd rather they record all of the Haydn symphonies so we can listen to them and hear the underrated gems in the cycle.

At least 6, 22, 26, 31, 43-49, 52, 53, 59, 60, 82, 83, 84, 88-104. And I haven't listened to every symphony not listed here yet.

Usually, I don't care so much. But Haydn's symphony cycle is really high quality.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

ORigel said:


> I'd rather they record all of the Haydn symphonies so we can listen to them and hear the underrated gems in the cycle.
> 
> At least 6, 22, 26, 31, 43-49, 52, 53, 59, 60, 82, 83, 84, 88-104. And I haven't listened to every symphony not listed here yet.
> 
> Usually, I don't care so much. But Haydn's symphony cycle is really high quality.


Very much agreed. I am glad that complete Haydn or Mozart cycles exist, recorded in good quality. For that matter, Dvorak, Schubert, Shosty, etc. etc. I don't listen to them in "completeness" all the time, to be sure. But I dive into the lesser known stuff now and again.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

I'm finding this whole discussion utterly absorbing.

I'm seldom satisfied with "highlights" discs, because they're chosen by someone else--someone who, inevitably, has different tastes and preferences from mine. Even if I want to (e.g.) skip the Norns scene when listening to Wagner's _Ring_ (which depends on who is singing the Norns!), still _I_ want to make that decision myself, and not have it made for me by someone else. (And my decision will tend to vary from one listening session to another.)

This also applies to sets of multiple works. As it happens, I do enjoy (and revisit) all 104+A+B of Haydn's symphonies. But even if I didn't, I would still prefer to buy the whole set and choose my favorites for myself, rather than have some record company executive tell me which ones are the "best."

Moreover, when a composer has arranged works in certain groups, I generally want to play the works in those groups, not in some other way.

Brahms did nothing random or carelessly. If he published his Lieder in groups of 2-6, it was because he wanted to present them to the public in those groups. And when I listen to them, that's generally the way I like to listen to them. That's why I prefer the CPO and DG (DFD/Jessye Norman) Brahms complete Lieder sets to the Hyperion set. I fully accept that Graham Johnson has the right to reshuffle Brahms's Lieder into new sequences of his own. That's fine. But personally, I prefer Brahms's own sequences.

The CPO and DG sets also have the advantage of practicality. When I want to play (e.g.) Op. 59 No. 3, I know exactly where to find it. With the Hyperion set, I have to locate the index, then look it up to see which disc has Op. 59 No. 3, then locate that disc. I'm lazy!

I also fully accept that performers have a right to perform whichever works they choose, and to abridge them in whatever ways they choose. But sometimes, I don't buy their discs as a result. As far as I know, the only "complete" recording of Anton Rubinstein's piano trios performs them in substantially cut versions. That's fine. But I'm happy to wait until a truly uncut, complete recording comes along. There's quite enough other music to keep me occupied in the meantime!


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

_On the specific point about 'a single <artist> doing a whole <thing>'. That bothers me less. It's rare for one artist to be able to maintain the artistic concentration needed throughout a long cycle. Gardiner's Bach Cantatas are quite uneven, I think, as a for-example. So in those cases, I'd prefer to pick and choose their best bits rather than put up with great wodges of stodge with merely a rare current of wonder in the middle of it. _

So, A Greatest Hits Album then...


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## Rmathuln (Mar 21, 2018)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


For the two Composer/Genres you cite there are complete sets, they just aren't covenient wrapped together as a one purchase box or bath.

Eva Knardahl (BIS) Hakan Astbo (Brilliant Classics) recorded all of the Grieg Lyric Pieces, but only Knardahl can be purchased without buying other stuff. To get Knardahl, you have to buy each individual CD. You can get cheaper though by buying the complete solo piano works in a wallet box. Boxes with other works are the only way I know to get Astbo.

Daniel Adni's EMI cycle is OOP. And one of the best ever, Liv Glaser, has never been released on CD ( was on four RCA LPs, but I am not sure RCA/Sony has sufficient copyright ownership to allow a reissue)

The same is true for complete Brahms Lieder sets on CPO and Hyperion, though I think the CPO cycles is boxed now.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

The Grieg has been solved. Anyway, that was just an example. I also know the CPO cycle of Brahms lieder and it is also incomplete, don't remember exactly what is missing tho.


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## Rmathuln (Mar 21, 2018)

Overall I am bothered more by completeness when it produces everyday uninspired performances. 

There are some grand scale cases of completeness that took the artists years to finish, but the artists were so passionate about the music they never produced anything routinely (Dorati's Haydn Sym., Harnoncourt/Leonhardt Bach Cantatas, for example). 

The Russel-Davies Haydn Sym. and Leusink Bach Cantatas are both examples of complete sets of the same music as the cited "good" examples where the desire for completeness (in both cases to make it in time for a celebration) resulted in mountains of humdrum boring performances; a few good ones, but mostly stinkers.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I definitely am in the "annoyed by incompleteness" group. I understand not recording a whole symphony cycle but to record just Mahler's Adagietto from the 5th symphony rather than the whole symphony is an annoyance. Very much a "greatest hits album" kind of thing to do which I don't care for.

I'm not familiar enough with Grieg's works to be helpful but it appears a few others posted some options and I agree even if it was a different pianist recording different books, I'm perfectly happy with that.

In a live recital I understand playing a bit from here and there. Maybe you do a Chopin evening and play a couple of his nocturnes because you aren't going to play all of them in one evening and so you are just playing a few favorites. That's fine with me, but in a studio recording, I would like to hear a complete sonata, not just 1 movement from it or all of Debussy's Preludes from Book 1, not just 1 or 2. I'm still trying to figure out why Samson Francois recorded all of Debussy's Preludes, except #11 from Book 2 which is never anywhere to be found. Why would you leave just one out? Unless he did record it and the master recording was just lost and has thus never appeared on disc, very strange.

Opera, well I can kind of understand. Any of the operas I love I do want to hear the complete opera, but I admit there are a lot of operas that bore me to tears other than a specific aria so if Callas or whomever sings a few highlights from French operas I understand because maybe she didn't want to learn the entire opera or it wasn't a character she wanted to play or perhaps she wasn't given an option to play the role by a producer or album company, etc. as we are talking about a massive production with lots of people involved, not just 1 person sitting in front of a single instrument. But I agree I don't want to hear Highlights from Don Giovanni, I want to hear the complete performance and if I don't have 3 hours at once that's fine, I can break it up into acts.


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## Rmathuln (Mar 21, 2018)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I want to listen to all of Grieg's lyric pieces for piano. I haven't found a single pianist that has recorded all of them, only selections that they like from each book. Same thing happens with a lot of his song cycles. Last year I wanted to listen to a lot of Brahms' lieder, same thing, although there are some supossedly complete volumes, there are a few incomplete cycles. I could find more examples of that, but is anyone else really bothered by recordings that pick and choose only certain parts of a whole work? I understand of course it's very demanding to record a whole work and the space on a cd is limited, but I just cannot stand to listen to something that is only a fragment of a greater work. I will also never understand opera highlights or recording just an aria.


I am not so sure the composers intended the music to all be played together, even when published in a single volume. Perhaps a case could be made for that with thematic works like Die Schöne Magelone, or Schubert' s trio of thematic song cycles, but I am quite certain that was never intended for most other cases.

The same applies to Grieg's Lyric Pieces. These are not like Sonatas or other forms that are designed by the composer from the start to be only played as a complete set. Batching them together simply makes for a practical means of publication.

As far as opera highlights and arias, performances of single arias, duets, trios, choruses, etc. has been commonplace long before the invention of the gramophone. Many times selected arias were published individually for that very purpose, as many places lacked sufficient musicians, theater, or financial resources to stage a full opera.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Rmathuln said:


> I am not so sure the composers intended the music to all be played together, even when published in a single volume. Perhaps a case could be made for that with thematic works like Die Schöne Magelone, or Schubert' s trio of thematic songs, but I am quite certain that was never intended for most other cases.
> 
> The same applies to Grieg's Lyric Pieces. These are not like Sonatas or other forms that are designed by the composer from the start to be only played as a complete set. Batching them together simply makes for a practical means of publication.


This is what I was thinking. When composers publish works in books or volumes, isn't that just how they are published, not necessarily how they are meant to be performed? I can't remember what it was or who the composer was, but I seem to recall reading about some piano pieces that were published likewise and that the composer said to just pick what you would like to perform essentially.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

adriesba said:


> This is what I was thinking. When composers publish works in books or volumes, isn't that just how they are published, not necessarily how they are meant to be performed? I can't remember what it was or who the composer was, but I seem to recall reading about some piano pieces that were published likewise and that the composer said to just pick what you would like to perform essentially.


Well, it's even said of Chopin's op.28 Preludes ...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> The Grieg has been solved. Anyway, that was just an example. I also know the CPO cycle of Brahms lieder and it is also incomplete, don't remember exactly what is missing tho.


You are absolutely right - it is incomplete. Most of the omissions seem minor (i.e the odd unfinished song and a few Bach transcriptions) but for some reason the WoO32 volkslieder weren't included, whereas the WoO31 and WoO33 sets were. Were the WoO32 songs superseded by the other folksong collections, I wonder?


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Fine, as long as words from the same message aren't spread across numerous postcards.


The analogy would be that your aunt sends a message across multiple postcards and you transcribe each of them into a word processor as they arrive, finally having a Word document (or whatever) that contains the entire message. The multiple postcards aren't really an issue, provided you get the message in the end.

Anyhow: Leaving metaphor behind: "what I do find irritating is when a complete oeuvre has been recorded [has been] split up … across discs". Rip the devils and then re-arrange on the hard disk. Problem solved. Don't let the limitations of physical media irritate you! That was all I was trying to say, really.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> The analogy would be that your aunt sends a message across multiple postcards and you transcribe each of them into a word processor as they arrive, finally having a Word document (or whatever) that contains the entire message. The multiple postcards aren't really an issue, provided you get the message in the end.
> 
> Anyhow: Leaving metaphor behind: "what I do find irritating is when a complete oeuvre has been recorded [has been] split up … across discs". Rip the devils and then re-arrange on the hard disk. Problem solved. Don't let the limitations of physical media irritate you! That was all I was trying to say, really.


Ripping/rearranging? No, thank you - too much trouble by half. I just prefer the idea of sets that make some kind of sequential sense, that's all - for example, breaking up a six-song cycle and sticking the songs on different discs strikes me as both pointless and counter-productive. Bothers me, but I appreciate that it wouldn't bother you. Different strokes for different folks, obviously.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Rmathuln said:


> I am not so sure the composers intended the music to all be played together, even when published in a single volume. Perhaps a case could be made for that with thematic works like Die Schöne Magelone, or Schubert' s trio of thematic song cycles, but I am quite certain that was never intended for most other cases.
> 
> The same applies to Grieg's Lyric Pieces. These are not like Sonatas or other forms that are designed by the composer from the start to be only played as a complete set. Batching them together simply makes for a practical means of publication.
> 
> As far as opera highlights and arias, performances of single arias, duets, trios, choruses, etc. has been commonplace long before the invention of the gramophone. Many times selected arias were published individually for that very purpose, as many places lacked sufficient musicians, theater, or financial resources to stage a full opera.


The Grieg pieces might not have been meant to be played as a group. Schubert's song cycles were meant to stay intact. A story unfolds with each song. The tension and listener involvement builds from one to the next. Musically they benefit from following one another in the sequence they were intended. I admit I'll play an individual song or skip around in the sequence with some listening sessions. But it's always with a mind to where in the story that song puts me. I don't think I've ever heard any artists encore just a single song from Schubert's song cycles.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Is anyone else bothered by incompleteness?*

The first thing I do each day when I awaken from my sleep is to check to see if I still have all my body parts. That's enough completeness for me. I certainly don't measure it against how many gaps are in a symphony cycle on my CD shelves, or how many arias some soprano chooses to sing, and certainly not how many Grieg Lyric Pieces have or have not been recorded by so and so or by the other fellow (or lady). Life's too short. But having all one's body parts helps make it more easily doable.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

SONNET CLV said:


> *Is anyone else bothered by incompleteness?*
> 
> The first thing I do each day when I awaken from my sleep is to check to see if I still have all my body parts. That's enough completeness for me. I certainly don't measure it against how many gaps are in a symphony cycle on my CD shelves, or how many arias some soprano chooses to sing, and certainly not how many Grieg Lyric Pieces have or have not been recorded by so and so or by the other fellow (or lady). Life's too short. But having all one's body parts helps make it more easily doable.


Hopefully you'll never go down Gregor Samsa's path


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