# Bruno Walter - The Complete Columbia Recordings - and previous masterings



## vmartell (Feb 9, 2017)

Hello,

So, finally got around to getting the recent Sony big box of Bruno Walter's Complete Columbia Recordings. It does seem definitive - as per the included book, they all are new remasters. One of the first things I listened was actually compare the early Beethoven with the NY Phil (or whatever name it had them, including Columbia Symphony) with the later Stereo Beethoven.

That did remind me. I have the impression that the early recordings were not officially available, given the number of alternative sources for them. Of those the one I remember the most was M&A's

https://www.musicandarts.com/bruno-walter-s-beethoven.html

However, never got around to getting them - having to order from outside the USA, the price, and well, the fact that the stereo cycle is great, ended up not being a priority...

But, got curious. For those of you that have both, how do the new official remasters from the big box compare to the M&A (and possible others)? Better ? Worse? Different? For those of us that have the big box - do we have now the definitive versions of those recordings?

Thnx!

v


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## vmartell (Feb 9, 2017)

Wow - no bites - I really thought the Walter box was more popular...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I've noticed that "hearing differences in newer remasterings" is not a popular idea around these parts.

I can, but I haven't heard the Bruno Walter box.

Even in the case of the Rudolf Kempe box set of Strauss, remastered from newly-discovered master tapes, people were not interested, and wanted to keep their old issues. (This box sounds fantastic, BTW)










I remember one member saying that he thought ALL modern remasterings of *anything* were "too bright."


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

millionrainbows said:


> I've noticed that "hearing differences in newer remasterings" is not a popular idea around these parts.
> 
> I can, but I haven't heard the Bruno Walter box.
> 
> ...


For most popular music I agree. My "96/24 hi-rez" _Some Girls_ by The Rolling Stones sounds horrible next to the original CD. If ever "night and day" were an apt measure of comparison, this would be it for me.

But for classical, it's definitely hit and miss. I'm quite pleased with the new Szell box, for instance.

Edit - just checked the Dynamic Range database - the 1986 CD of _Some Girls_ has an average dynamic range of 14; the 2011 hi-rez release has a dynamic range of 6.

Returning to Bruno, I own the prior box set (39 discs). The recordings of the Columbia Symphony Orchestra in L.A. had pretty good sound. In the instances where I can compare, the difference is less significant than it is with Szell.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> Even in the case of the Rudolf Kempe box set of Strauss, remastered from newly-discovered master tapes, people were not interested, and wanted to keep their old issues. (This box sounds fantastic, BTW)


Well, FWIW, the remasters used in this set are the same ones used in the previous issue - they just changed the cover and the slipcases:


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## vmartell (Feb 9, 2017)

Thnx for the replies!

Indeed - a few things that come to mind

1.- Specifically about these recordings - this is the first time MANY of those early Bruno Walters are officially available - I believe the M&A sources are either 78s or LPs - obviously - they have to be... the copyright IN EUROPE expired ON the recordings themselves - newer masterings are separate works and re-start the count. PLEASE be aware I am referring to THE RECORDINGS only - that is the copyright that expired. 

2.- Basically I wanted to know - was it worth the wait? Quite frankly, I imprinted on and love the stereo cycle. BUT I am also loving the energy of those early recordings.

3.- The M&A transfer peeps get lots of praise, sometimes bordering on sycophancy - well... is it true? how does their work compare to transfer from original sources.. still, for example, the Beethoven Symph No. 1 sounds like a VERY early electrical recording... probably the original source is what I've heard are called "matrices" . Do these transfer people work the wonders their fans claim working with 78s?

Did the official Sony (Columbia) transfer and remaster peep did a better job? (if so, hope they get fans!)


4.- You kind comments did bring up a point about remasters. As an Audio Enthusiast (I call myself that, instead of "Audiophile" because audiophiles believe in very stupid stuff) I am also an skeptic and apply that to my self. I doubt MY OWN ABILITY to hear some things. So yeah - I don't expect magical improvements.

THAT SAID

I love the recent trends in remasterings. Companies are re-doing them with a different approach. The used to DEADEN recordings in the name of total digital silence. NOW - I am HAPPY to hear some tape hiss - why? because the main thing, the music is (MOST OF THE TIMES, I KNOW, YMMV) closer to what the original recording sounded like. Most of the times, thru the tape hiss, you can hear some stuff that got killed in previous remasterings, like hall ambiance, a little bit more (NICE, not screechy) top end, etc. Compare the Warner Kemp Strauss box set against the previous one on EMI (granted, a bit more music on that box). I (YMMV) hear tape hiss AND a livelier sound...

5.- I did not get the impression this was a mostly musicology forum... I prefer to discuss new remasterings/editions to the many, many MANY threads on "what is the best X" in the forum!  hehe THAT IMHO screams "newbie". Us that have been in this for a while (all my life, in my case) know that there is no "best", only pros and cons...

v


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

vmartell said:


> Hello,
> 
> So, finally got around to getting the recent Sony big box of Bruno Walter's Complete Columbia Recordings. It does seem definitive - as per the included book, they all are new remasters. One of the first things I listened was actually compare the early Beethoven with the NY Phil (or whatever name it had them, including Columbia Symphony) with the later Stereo Beethoven.
> 
> ...


I understand extracting the discs from the sleeves without destroying the cardboard is a challenge...


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## vmartell (Feb 9, 2017)

Triplets said:


> I understand extracting the discs from the sleeves without destroying the cardboard is a challenge...


haha - that is indeed the case - wonder how much cardboard they save by making it so tight... at least, the packaging is designed so the CDs pull upward or outward - I hate (and Sony/Columbia is a particular offender on this) when they make it so you have to pull the CDs from the inside of that packaging... so fiddly... I am talking of course about the multi-cd cardboard sleeves... the Bernstein Mahler Cycle in both of its the latest incarnations, the Original Sleeves version and the second full all Columbia Bernstein Mahler edition (Carnegie Hall presents)... ugh you practically need to rip apart the sleeves...

v


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I am looking at that Walter set. These big box conductor sets tend to sell out their initial runs and then not be reissued. Fanfare had a very long review of this set.


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

Triplets said:


> I understand extracting the discs from the sleeves without destroying the cardboard is a challenge...


Maybe I got lucky but I'm about half way through the box and haven't yet had the slightest bit of trouble getting any CD out of its sleeve.


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## blondheim (Jul 6, 2020)

The two-disc cardboard sleeves are the worst.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I finally got around to purchasing this, and I am extremely happy with, difficulty with jackets (and the chopping of the first two bars of Eine Kleine notwithstanding). The mono recordings are superbly remastered and it’s a real treat to hear artists such as Nathan Milstein and Serkin in their prime.


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