# Create your very own Ultimate "Dream Team" production of "Les Troyens"



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Create your very own Ultimate "Dream Team" production of "Les Troyens"*

In the spirit of the Carmen thread...

Every singer is at the absolute peak of their career... they are healthy, happy, know all of their lines, and show up on time for rehearsals... no one cries in their dressing room and refuses to come out...

Every singer is willing to check their ego at the stage door and will accept a secondary role with alacrity...There are neither tempers nor tantrums... There are neither feuds nor rivalries...

You are an impresario who wishes to create the Ultimate-Definitive-Reference "Dream Team" production of Berlioz' _Les Troyens_

Each role needs to be cast...

You must choose a conductor... again whether or not they ever actually conducted this production is completely irrelevant...

You must choose an orchestra...

You must choose a venue...

Your performance will be recorded .. you must decide whether you want to record a live performance or a studio recording...

Your forum peers will judge your production...

Here are the roles for "Les Troyens" along with the suggested voice type -
Énée - tenor
Cassandre - mezzo
Didon - mezzo
Chorèbe - baritone
Narbal - bass
Iopas - tenor
Ascagne - soprano
Anna - mezzo
Hylas - tenor

N.B. I don't have any cracked ribs (yet) so making me laugh is acceptable.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

OK. Here goes. 

Enée - Jon Vickers
Cassandre - Maria Callas alternating with Janet Baker
Didon - Janet Baker alternating with Maria Callas 
Chorèbe - Gérard Souzay
Narbal - Pol Plançon
Iopas - Juan Diego Flórez
Ascagne - Mady Mesplé
Anna - Régine Crespin
Hylas - Fritz Wunderlich

Conductor would be Sir Colin Davis (who else?) with the London Symphony Orchestra.

I'd stage it at La Scala, Milan.

Visconti would direct, with designs by Salvatore Fiume (who designed the costumes and sets for Callas's La Scala Medea).

Recorded live to catch the frisson one only gets with a live performance, though it would have to be recorded twice of course.

I'd want Lorraine Hunt Lieberson standing by in case either Callas or Baker was indisposed.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> OK. Here goes.
> 
> Enée - Jon Vickers
> Cassandre - Maria Callas alternating with Janet Baker
> ...


Great picks, though I'm never entirely comfortable with Vickers in French opera, heroic though he can be; I don't like his Samson (or Rita Gorr's butch Dalila, putting their old recording out of the running for me - but I digress...). I know there were some good French dramatic tenors back when there were good French singers, but that's a weak area of knowledge for me. Georges Thill, maybe?

Incidentally, Crespin was a fine Didon, and I was in the chorus when she sang it in Boston in the '70s. A little past her prime, but still commanding, at least from the wings.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Great picks, though I'm never entirely comfortable with Vickers in French opera, heroic though he can be; I don't like his Samson (or Rita Gorr's butch Dalila, putting their old recording out of the running for me - but I digress...). I know there were some good French dramatic tenors back when there were good French singers, but that's a weak area of knowledge for me. Georges Thill, maybe?
> 
> Incidentally, Crespin was a fine Didon, and I was in the chorus when she sang it in Boston in the '70s. A little past her prime, but still commanding, at least from the wings.


In my LP days, I had a recording of Georges Thill singing _Inutiles regrets_, and mighty impressive he was too. I'd be quite happy to have him if Vickers wasn't available.

Incidentally I don't have the same antipathy to Vickers as Samson as you do, though Gorr sounds terribly matronly to me. I can't imagine why people wax lyrical about her.

Crespin is a singer I have equivocal feelings about. I like her better in repertoire, where she can exploit her sense of Gallic wit and suave sophistication. In music that needs more passion, I always get the feeling she is holding back, as if she's afraid of mussing her perfectly coiffed hair.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> In my LP days, I had a recording of Georges Thill singing _Inutiles regrets_, and mighty impressive he was too. I'd be quite happy to have him if Vickers wasn't available.
> 
> Incidentally I don't have the same antipathy to Vickers as Samson as you do, though Gorr sounds terribly matronly to me. I can't imagine why people wax lyrical about her.
> 
> Crespin is a singer I have equivocal feelings about. I like her better in repertoire, where she can exploit her sense of Gallic wit and suave sophistication. In music that needs more passion, I always get the feeling she is holding back, as if she's afraid of mussing her perfectly coiffed hair.


Completely agree about Crespin. No matter what she's singing, I see her wearing an exquisite Coco Chanel ensemble, her hair piled in perfect curves, tilting her long cigarette holder at just the right angle. There's something in the voice, something always sophisticated and slightly blase in the way that (we stereotypically think) only the French can be. I think of Callas, hearing a recording of Crespin singing a Verdi aria, saying "That is not Verdi!" I'm not entirely sold on her Wagner (Sieglinde and Brunnhilde) either. But I've generally liked her in French music.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Completely agree about Crespin. No matter what she's singing, I see her wearing an exquisite Coco Chanel ensemble, her hair piled in perfect curves, tilting her long cigarette holder at just the right angle. There's something in the voice, something always sophisticated and slightly blase in the way that (we stereotypically think) only the French can be. I think of Callas, hearing a recording of Crespin singing a Verdi aria, saying "That is not Verdi!" I'm not entirely sold on her Wagner (Sieglinde and Brunnhilde) either. But I've generally liked her in French music.


Me too, though here too she is better in, say, Poulenc and Ravel, than Berlioz. I adore her recording of Ravel's _Schéhérazade_, but find her altogether too urbane in Berlioz's _Les Nuits d'Eté_, for which my preferences would be Baker, Hunt Lieberson and Steber.

I started listening (on Spotify) to the new box set, issued by Warner, but haven't managed to get past disc one yet. Whether it be Verdi, Wagner, Rossini or Berlioz, the singing is unfailingly musical and tasteful, but I found myself longing for Callas or Tebaldi or Scotto in the Verdi, for Caballé in the Rossini, for Schwarzkopf or Grümmer in the Wagner, and for Callas or Baker in the Berlioz (_D'amour l'ardente flamme_).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

"Urbane" is exactly the concept I was dancing around and failing to light upon. Thanks!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

My problem with Vickers as Énéeis that he often overwhelms the Didon, although it is quite probable that it wouldn't happen with Callas. That is part of the reason why I so like the Susan Graham / Gregory Kunde combination as their voices merge so beautifully particularly in Nuit d'Ivresse.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Here it is! Here it is!






They don't make 'em like that any more.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> My problem with Vickers as Énéeis that he often overwhelms the Didon, although it is quite probable that it wouldn't happen with Callas. That is part of the reason why I so like the Susan Graham / Gregory Kunde combination as their voices merge so beautifully particularly in Nuit d'Ivresse.


Well, as you say, I don't think he'd overwhelm Callas. Nor does he overwhelm Baker in a strange broadcast of a Covent Garden performance, at which she deputised for an ailing Veasey. Baker had been singing the role with Scottish Opera but only knew it in English. So she sings in English, whilst the rest of the cast sing in French.

Callas really admired Vickers after working with him in *Medea* and wanted him to sing Pollione to her Norma. At the time he wouldn't do it because of the top C, though when he did eventually sing the role (with Caballé in Orange) he ducked the top C anyway.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

I would go further back in time to the late 1920s just as an excuse to hear some wonderful singers whose records I have enjoyed at different times 

Énée - tenor *Georges Thill*
Cassandre - mezzo *Gina Cigna*
Didon - mezzo *Rosa Ponselle*
Chorèbe - baritone *Armand Crabbé*
Narbal - bass *Marcel Journet*
Iopas - tenor *Hermann Jadlowker*
Ascagne - soprano *Lucrezia Bori*
Anna - mezzo *Maartje Offers*
Hylas - tenor *Andre D'Arkor*

*Thomas Beecham* conducting a wonderful French orchestra and chorus in totally anachronistic Dolby Digital Surround Sound would be fab


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Here it is! Here it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wonderful. Maybe I'll have Thill after all.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I have spent part of the afternoon trying to come up with a different but equally good cast to Greg's (what better way to spend a Saturday afternoon!) It hasn't been easy, but...

Énée – tenor - Alberto Remedios *
Cassandre – mezzo - Maria Callas **
Didon – mezzo - Christa Ludwig
Chorèbe – baritone - Norman Bailey
Narbal – bass - Geraint Evans
Iopas – tenor - Luigi Alva
Ascagne – soprano - Maria Ewing
Anna – mezzo - Frederica von Stade
Hylas - tenor - Ian Bostridge

Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (*with* Berlioz' originally specified brass)
Rafael Kubelik

* Yes I know, same as Carmen, but he sang a lot of the same roles as Jon Vickers.
** I can't outdo this, and of the two roles, Callas has to do this one.

Wow, a totally non-Francophone cast!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> I have spent part of the afternoon trying to come up with a different but equally good cast to Greg's (what better way to spend a Saturday afternoon!) It hasn't been easy, but...
> 
> Énée - tenor - Alberto Remedios *
> Cassandre - mezzo - Maria Callas **
> ...


Didon was in Christa Ludwig's repertoire (as you may know). I heard her in a Met broadcast of it, but specific memories of the occasion have faded.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> I have spent part of the afternoon trying to come up with a different but equally good cast to Greg's (what better way to spend a Saturday afternoon!) It hasn't been easy, but...
> 
> Énée - tenor - Alberto Remedios *
> Cassandre - mezzo - Maria Callas **
> ...


I had a recording on LP of Ludwig singing Dalila in *Samson et Dalila*. James King was the Samson. I'm not sure French opera really suited her. Mind you, the whole recording was a bit dull. I'm still trying to find a totally successful recording of *Samson et Dalila*. I'm not sure it exists.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I had a recording on LP of Ludwig singing Dalila in *Samson et Dalila*. James King was the Samson. I'm not sure French opera really suited her. Mind you, the whole recording was a bit dull. I'm still trying to find a totally successful recording of *Samson et Dalila*. I'm not sure it exists.


Domingo/Meier satisfies me.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Domingo/Meier satisfies me.
> 
> N.


Doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid. I do wish Verrett had recorded the role. She was a superb Dalila.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2018)

Post moved to "Carmen" Ultimate Dream Team thread...

Took so long to write that I got logged out and then lost my place when logging back in...

Carry on...


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I vote for Becca. I know nothing about golden-age singers' abilities with French, not to mention my first time with LT was like everything sounded loud an epic all time and no rest stop it bye.

But why Kubelík?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Granate said:


> I vote for Becca. I know nothing about golden-age singers' abilities with French, not to mention my first time with LT was like everything sounded loud an epic all time and no rest stop it bye.
> 
> But why Kubelík?


_However, the 1957 production at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden conducted by Rafael Kubelík and directed by John Gielgud, has been described as "the first full staging in a single evening that even approximated the composer's original intentions"

In 1973, Rafael Kubelík conducted the first Metropolitan Opera staging of Les Troyens, in the opera's first performances in New York City and the third staging in the United States._


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2018)

GregMitchell said:


> OK. Here goes.
> 
> Enée - Jon Vickers
> Cassandre - Maria Callas alternating with Janet Baker
> ...


That really was a first-rate post - my compliments on a job well done... Had to offer a few words of praise as clicking the "Like" button just didn't do it justice...

Now that I wrote something so nice would you be willing to comp me two sets of two tickets at the will-call box? One set for when Callas is Cassandre and one set for when she is Didon...

Thanks! - :tiphat:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Nudge and a Wink said:


> That really was a first-rate post - my compliments on a job well done... Had to offer a few words of praise as clicking the "Like" button just didn't do it justice...
> 
> Now that I wrote something so nice would you be willing to comp me two sets of two tickets at the will-call box? One set for when Callas is Cassandre and one set for when she is Didon...
> 
> Thanks! - :tiphat:


I'll have a word with the powers that be. :tiphat:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Conductor: Hector Berlioz

Imagine how happy he'd be if he could see and hear the whole work!


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