# HELDENTENOR TOURNAMENT (Round 1, Match 7): Völker vs Florian Vogt



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Franz Völker, Germanz, 1899-1965






Klaus Florian Vogt, Germany, 1970-






'In Fernem Land' from Wagner's _Lohengrin_.

Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Volker's rendition was truly excellent. Unlike many of the tenors that came after him he often maintains a strong legato line which contrasts nicely with the more "barking" effect that seems to be nearly exclusively employed in Wagner nowadays. His voice possesses an "easy power", much like Federer's forehand (I dunno, forum seems obsessed with tennis analogies these days so I thought I'd throw one in), that allows him to tower over the orchestra without straining; really, in a perfect world, all heldentenors should have this wonderful squillo. And what chest voice too!

On the other hand, trying to find Vogt's chest voice is like playing where's Waldo on hard mode when Waldo isn't wearing special clothes. Like the Sasquatch, Yeti, or Loch Ness Monster, people might think they have caught a fleeting glimpse of it, but the phonograph (pun intended) is always grainy and expert opinion has to land on the side of its non-existence. And who told Vogt that Lohengrin was supposed to be a sensitive and nuanced girly-man? I mean, this is a god-warrior alpha male being sung in a weak, mannered voice that makes you wonder if he's using falsetto.

I do think Bonetan just stuck in Vogt so we could have fun complaining though . Pairing him up against Volker here is like making Federer my hitting partner.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

BachIsBest said:


> Volker's rendition was truly excellent. Unlike many of the tenors that came after him he often maintains a strong legato line which contrasts nicely with the more "barking" effect that seems to be nearly exclusively employed in Wagner nowadays. His voice possesses an "easy power", much like Federer's forehand (I dunno, forum seems obsessed with tennis analogies these days so I thought I'd throw one in), that allows him to tower over the orchestra without straining; really, in a perfect world, all heldentenors should have this wonderful squillo. And what chest voice too!
> 
> On the other hand, trying to find Vogt's chest voice is like playing where's Waldo on hard mode when Waldo isn't wearing special clothes. Like the Sasquatch, Yeti, or Loch Ness Monster, people might think they have caught a fleeting glimpse of it, but the phonograph (pun intended) is always grainy and expert opinion has to land on the side of its non-existence. And who told Vogt that Lohengrin was supposed to be a sensitive and nuanced girly-man? I mean, this is a god-warrior alpha male being sung in a weak, mannered voice that makes you wonder if he's using falsetto.
> 
> I do think Bonetan just stuck in Vogt so we could have fun complaining though . Pairing him up against Volker here is like making Federer my hitting partner.


Caught red-handed :lol:

BUT I do want modern singers represented and apparently he's in demand in this rep so...maybe he has a Champion among us, willing to fight for him.

Or better yet, we can use this as an exercise and try to find nice things to say about KFV's rendition :lol:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There isn't much to say about pretty-faced choirboy Vogt that hasn't been said multiple times on this forum. A heroic knight of the Holy Grail he ain't (though maybe he could be an esquire in _Parsifal,_ just drafted from the local Boy Scout chapter, provided he's won his merit badge for helping old ladies across the street).

Volker is exemplary, and it's nice to hear the second part of his narrative, though Wagner was ultimately right to cut it, as it lacks the precise musical focus of the first part, presents no interesting new musical material, and holds up the plot's denouement unduly.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I voted Volker. I might even listen to the two examples at some point! Well, maybe not both of them.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barbebleu said:


> I voted Volker. I might even listen to the two examples at some point! Well, maybe not both of them.


It really is that easy, isn't it?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> I voted Volker. I might even listen to the two examples at some point! Well, maybe not both of them.


Oh, can I do that? I haven't listened yet, but I really didn't want to listen to the Vogt version. Do I have to? I'm sure I've been subjected to him singing this at some point quite recently.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> There isn't much to say about* pretty-faced choirboy* Vogt that hasn't been said multiple times on this forum. A heroic knight of the Holy Grail he ain't (though maybe he could be an esquire in _Parsifal,_ just drafted from the local Boy Scout chapter, provided he's won his merit badge for helping old ladies across the street).
> 
> Volker is exemplary, and it's nice to hear the second part of his narrative, though Wagner was ultimately right to cut it, as it lacks the precise musical focus of the first part, presents no interesting new musical material, and holds up the plot's denouement unduly.


You said EVERYTHING. This isn't a competition but illegal porno (I hope this word doesn't offend someone) with victim the pretty, ''young'' boy Florian. The MOST uneven competition ever made from our friend Bonetan and maybe I must not vote, because I consider myself (when I was young I was also singing in choirs, also I performed once in a operette, with very mediocre results) better than the second singer and this is absolute craziness and shame for this level... Thanks for all the comments.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Being that I have no idea which interpretation Wagner had in mind, the more ethereal and beautiful (but somehow boring) of Vogt's rendition or the more strong and passionate of Volker's, I simply must, once again, let my senses be my guide and choose Volker.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

One of the greatest recordings of "In fernem Land" against one of the worst (despite the fact that Lohengrin is probably Vogt's least objectionable roles).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

How about sending Boy Florian over for a few sessions with Mae "Dalila" West? https://www.talkclassical.com/71563-did-you-know-mae.html#post2106958 If anyone can make a man of him, she can. Not sure if he can rock the buzz cut though.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Volker shows all the "musicianly" singers of today that you can sing softly without sounding weak, ethereally without sounding insipid, and musically without sounding flaccid. You'd think that would be obvious, but since a demonstration seems to be necessary, Volker provides it magisterially.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Looking at the cover depicting Vogt I can only ask "Helden Who?"
Völker by a nautical mile and I'm not in the least objecting the longer way he takes to explain himself. Why, this kind of singing is damn rare these days... and these days have been going on for like forever now.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Azol said:


> Looking at the cover depicting Vogt I can only ask "Helden Who?"


The vocal fach of which Vogt is the leading exponent has not yet been invented.

I would like to suggest _hemidemisemitenor._


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> The vocal fach of which Vogt is the leading exponent has not yet been invented.
> 
> I would like to suggest _hemidemisemitenor._


I like "wimpentenor".


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## JoeSaunders (Jan 29, 2015)

I say this as someone who has been pleasantly surprised by Vogt's Lohengrin in-house: this is the easiest poll I've ever seen on this website - Völker!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I voted for Völker even though I didn't like the quasi-scream that the word _Gral_ shouldn't engender. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Vogt, whose *Lohengrin* I saw on DVD some time ago and whose interpretation I didn't dislike, sounds (at least on this video) underpowered but properly ethereal if that is what he aims for. The voice doesn't expand into heroic size or timbre like Völk's does naturally and whose singing brings the knight to life before our eyes (the photo helps) and ears.


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