# Symphonic (Tone) Poems Recommendations



## ChamberNut

Hello dear TC members 

I've only heard a few symphonic or tone poems, and there are 3 that I really enjoy.

They are:

R. Strauss - Ein Heldenleben (A Hero's Life)
R. Strauss - Tod und Verklärung (Death and Transfiguration)
Dvorak - The Wild Dove

I'd like some recommendations for other great symphonic/tone poems?

Thanks a bunch!


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## Chi_townPhilly

Hi there, CN (that has a nice, quasi-nationalistic ring to it, doesn't it?):

I share your love for _Heldenleben_ and _Transfiguration_. My favorite R. Strauss tone poems remain *Also Sprach Zarathustra* and *Don Juan*. In fact, I love them all except for _Don Quixote_ and _Bourgeois Gentilhomme_ (not disliking them- just not crazy about them)... and _Sinfonia Domestica_

I'll leave the advocacy of the abbreviated Sibelius works (Finlandia, En Saga, etc.) to more capable hands

If I can bend the taxonomy a little bit, let me cite Tchaikovsky's _Romeo & Juliet_. Called a "fantasy-overture;" at almost 20 minutes, it kind of defies the size parameter for "overture." I think it rates a mention here.


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## Rondo

Sibelius: Finlandia, Night Ride and Sunrise, and Pohjola's (sp?) Daughter

Bax: Tintagel 

Rimsky-Korsakov: Stenka Razin

Elgar: In the South

Shostakovich: October (!!)

R. Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels Lustige Streiche ("Merry Pranks") and, or course, Also Sprach Zarathustra

Debussy: La Mer and Prélude à L'après-Midi D'un Faune (Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Faun)

Anyway, that's a start.


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## MungoPark

How about these:

Smetana: Die Moldau
Liszt: Héroïde funèbre and about a dozen others
Berwald: Erinnerung an die Norwegischen Alpen
Balakirev: Tamara
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition and Night on Bald Mountain
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade


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## Guest

You realize, of course, that asking for tone poems is like asking for symphonies or concertos or operas. But as long as you realize that...

Any of the other ones by Dvorak. _Wild Dove_ is the best of the lot, I think, but so what? The others are good, too.

And if you really like that romantic Czech stuff, and who doesn't, then you don't want to miss Smetana's offerings: _Hakon Jarl, Wallenstein's Camp, Richard III._ And of course, _Ma Vlast,_ which is a group of six tone poems. (Don't just settle for _Moldau._ The other five are all better.)

I keep expecting Kurkikohtaus to jump in here on the Sibelius side, but I'm tarred o' waitin', so _The Bard, Tapiola, Oceanides, Nightride and Sunrise, En Saga, and Pohjola's Daughter_ are all very fine. And Sibelius gives you a package deal, too: _Lemminkainen._ (Again, don't settle for _Swan of Tuonela_ from this suite. The other three are all better.)

And Nielsen wrote some nice tone poems, too. _Helios, Saga-Drom, Pan and Syrinx, and Rhapsodic Overture: An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands._ Those are all worth a listen.

But, and this is a BIG BUT, all these people are dead. I don't know if that matters to you. But buying music by people who are alive puts food on their tables, you know, so...

Paul Ruders' _Gong_ is very nice, especially if you get the performance by Segerstam. (The other one is just OK.)

And Iancu Dumitrescu. You deserve to have the Musique Action '98 cd with Dumitrescu's _New Meteors and Pulsars,_ Avram's _Nouvelle Axe,_ Cutler's _Life on Earth,_ and Hodgkinson's _Black Death and Errors in Construction._ (Ana-Maria, Chris, and Tim are all alive, too.)

But calling those things "tone poems" may not be quite the thing. (One could practically call any old piece of electroacoustic music a "tone poem," now, couldn't one? But I'm not sure the composers would go for that designation, so don't tell 'em I sent you.) And anyway, to do that might be to get on a slippery slope.

But if it's January, and you've got a sled, a slippery slope is just exactly what you want, isn't it? (Or July and a long stretch of mud ending in a pond. That's nice, too.)


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## ChamberNut

Thank you all for your recommendations. Obviously, the classification for symphonic/tone poems is much broader than I thought.

Otherwise I would definitely have included Mussorgky - Pictures at an Exhibition, as well as both Debussy's La Mer and Prelude d'un apres-midi d'une faune.  

I thought tone poems were normally 1 mvt. works? Or is that a misconception?

Would Schumann's Cello Concerto thus fall in this category?


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## opus67

Schumann pasted three movements together because he didn't like people applauding in-between movements.


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## Kurkikohtaus

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I'll leave the advocacy of the abbreviated Sibelius works (Finlandia, En Saga, etc.) to more capable hands





Eric683 said:


> Sibelius: Finlandia, Night Ride and Sunrise, and Pohjola's Daughter





some guy said:


> I keep expecting Kurkikohtaus to jump in here on the Sibelius side, but I'm tarred o' waitin', so _The Bard, Tapiola, Oceanides, Nightride and Sunrise, En Saga, and Pohjola's Daughter_ are all very fine. And Sibelius gives you a package deal, too: _Lemminkainen._ (Again, don't settle for _Swan of Tuonela_ from this suite. The other three are all better.)


For the love of Sam, people, give me some time. I have 2 weeks off from the orchestra now and have to catch up on many missed hours of *Diablo II*.

These Sibelius recommendations cover about every single Tone-Poem that he wrote, so you may be in a bit of a fluff trying to get to them, ChamberNut. I think the _worst_ thing you could do is to buy a "Sibelius: Tone Poems" CD and listen to all of them at once, hoping for some sort of _satori_.

So I will make a bold suggestion that I have _not_ suggested elsewhere. Since you are a sophisticated listener and not a mere casual music liker, cut to the chase with Sibelius and go immediately to *TAPIOLA*. It is the last major orchestral piece that he ever wrote (The incidental music to THE TEMPEST came later) and it is his final and definitive word on a form that spanned his entire career, from En Saga (1892) to Tapiola (1926).

But beware... this piece is not for the faint of heart, it is not big and flashy and full of effects and obvious tone-painting as are the works of _Strauss_ and _Smetana_. It is more of an _internal_ rendition of the _feeling_ that one might have upon accidentally wandering into Tapio's enchanted forest. It will require repeated listening's to a good recording (Vanska: Lahti Symphony) to have it grow on you, but once it does, the rewards are grand. Go for it!

P.S. And when you're done, don't forget a pretty little piece from his suite from _Kuolema_... I can't remember the name...


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## Guest

Hey big K, we know you're busy. That was just us covering for you. And leaving you the best tidbit of all for your very own, eh? That's a good recommendation for a seasoned listener. (I started with En Saga, myself, but that was long ago, and I was much less sophisticated then than ChamberNut is now. Or was I?)

What's the little piece from Kuolema? I can't remember, either!


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## Manuel

ChamberNut said:


> Would Schumann's Cello Concerto thus fall in this category?


If you listen this Schumann work, I'm entitled to suggest Vieuxtemps 4th concerto.


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## opus67

Manuel said:


> If you listen this Schumann work, I'm entitled to suggest Vieuxtemps 4th concerto.


Just curious - Why?


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## Saturnus

Don't forget the poems of Liszt! After all, he was the guy who started it all. Well, I know the poems derive from orchestral overtures, but Liszt began with this name and defined it thoroughly with his 15 Poems. Strangely, they are rather unknown, and only one of them enjoys some reputation and is performed regularly. I admit that it seems I have some "thing" for them so instead of recommending them all, I made a list of those I think are the most accessible and had the most influence.

Les Preludes (this one has the best reputation)
Tasso: lamento e trionfo
Promotheus
Mazeppa
Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe


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## Manuel

opus67 said:


> Just curious - Why?


Sorry, I should have written:

"If you *list *this Schumann work, I'm entitled to suggest Vieuxtemps 4th concerto."

As Berlioz said, Vieuxtemps 4th is more a symphonic work than a concertant one.


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## opus67

Ah, okay. I have not listened to the fourth yet...should do so, one of these days.


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## Lisztfreak

Saturnus said:


> Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe


That's an obscure one. On listings of Liszt's works, I haven't, frankly, ever seen this tone poem. And yet I've heard of it and surely it does exist, since you've heard it played. How come this weird situation?


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## LaciDeeLeBlanc

All of you are forgetting:

Respighi: _Pines of Rome_, _Fountians of Rome_, _Festivals of Rome_
Strauss: _Eine Alpensinfonie_


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## Rondo

I forgot to also mention: Lemminkäinen's Return, The Swan of Tuonela, The Oceanides (Aallottaret) ---Sibelius, and Hekla ---Jón Leifs , The Water Goblin ---Dvorak. I just remembered them and many arent labeled as poems in my library.


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## Saturnus

@Lisztfreak: Hmm... it is on my complete CD set of his tone poems and listed on Wikipedia. I knew that this is the only poem he didn't compose in the Weimar years (he composed it much later) but I never knew it was considered an obscure work. 

@Eric: I also forgot to recommend Leifs's poem Hekla!


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## Rondo

Someone mentioned Rachmaninoff's Third Pno Concerto in another forum and led me to come across another I had, _The Rock_, Op. 7.

Earlier, someone mentioned Nielsen's _An Imaginary Journey to the Faroe Islands_. I have this piece, as well, and it sort of reminds me of the main theme from the movie Fargo by Carter Burwell.


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## Andrew

I'd like to mention here Tchaikovskys "Francesca da Rimini" and Richard Strauss' "Eine Alpensinfonie" (Alpine Symphony). He named it a symphony, but in fact it's rather a tone poem. Another very impressive tone poem is Rachmaninovs "Isle of Death".

Edit: Sorry, "Eine Alpensinfonie" was already mentioned.


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## Guest

Well, if we're gonna have _Isle of the Dead_ and _The Rock,_ and of course we should, then we should also have _Prince Rostislav,_ too. (The only one I found on Amazon was in the three cd set of Leonard Slatkin conducting _The Bells_ and a bunch of other Rachmaninoff. It's a nice set to have--there are (12:11am PDT) 26 "used and new" ones starting at $7.25.)


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## Pantheon

Most of what I would recommend has already been said above, but I would add Mily Balakirev's _In Bohemia_, which has somewhat been forgotten. It's a beautiful orchestral piece based on three Czeck melodies.
Also, another very beautiful piece would be Sibelius' Rakastava, although this is not technically speaking a Symphonic Poem.

My favourites however remain Rachmaninov's Isle of the Dead, Scriabin's Prometheus and Sibelius' Swan of Tuonela.


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## LordBlackudder




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## Tristan

Yeah, it's definitely a broad category. Does the Roman Trilogy by Respighi count? Fountains, Pines, and Festivals of Rome? If so, look into those '

Edit: Didn't see how old this thread is, but still...always consider the Roman Trilogy.


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## Selby

I'll second all the Sibelius recos and Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain, which I saw performed a couple months ago - it was spellbinding.


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## TrevBus

Since so many have been listed, I am only going to deal w/one and he is pretty obscure(I think). Long name, so be ready for it;
Mikalojus Konstantinas Ciurlionis. Whew, that took awhile.

Lithuanian composer and painter(more of that than composer) who died very young(35) but left behind a great deal of compositions, the best known, his 2 Symphonic poems, IN THE FOREST and THE SEA. Both are recorded on a Seven Seas label KICC 76. This is the only recording I know of but it is a good one. Sad this man died so young, IMO, based on these 2 poems, great things where ahead. I like both of the works here but IN THE FOREST is, IMO, the best. Beautiful, haunting and inspiring. If you haven't already, check him out(disc may be hard to find), I don't think you will be disappointed.


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## Barelytenor

Hindemith, Mathis der Maler, the symphony/tone poem, not the opera. Might be another gender-stretcher but definitely worth repeated listenings!

Best Regards, :tiphat:

George


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## drpraetorus

Mendelssohn The Hebrides, 

Kalinikov "Nymphs"

Rimsky-Korsakov "Scherazade" Russian Easter Overture" "Flight of the Bumblebee"

Scriabin "Poem of Ecstasy" "Prometheus"

Liszt "Les Preludes" "Mazepa" 

Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique"

Tchaikowsky "Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture"

Saint-Saens "Danse Macabre" 

Dukas "The Sorcerers Apprentice"

Smentana "Ma Vlast"

Groffe "Grand Canyon Suite"

Gershwin "An American in Paris"

Wagner: Overture to "Flying Dutchman", Overture to "Lohengrin", Prelude to "Rheingold", "Ride of the Valkyries", Wotans Farewell and Magic Fire Music, Siegfrieds Funeral March and Brunhildes Immolation. 

Beethoven Symphony #6

Rossini Overture to William Tell

Frank "The Accursed Huntsman"

Well, that's a good start.


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## moody

drpraetorus said:


> Mendelssohn The Hebrides,
> 
> Kalinikov "Nymphs"
> 
> Rimsky-Korsakov "Scherazade" Russian Easter Overture" "Flight of the Bumblebee"
> 
> Scriabin "Poem of Ecstasy" "Prometheus"
> 
> Liszt "Les Preludes" "Mazepa"
> 
> Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique"
> 
> Tchaikowsky "Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture"
> 
> Saint-Saens "Danse Macabre"
> 
> Dukas "The Sorcerers Apprentice"
> 
> Smentana "Ma Vlast"
> 
> Groffe "Grand Canyon Suite"
> 
> Gershwin "An American in Paris"
> 
> Wagner: Overture to "Flying Dutchman", Overture to "Lohengrin", Prelude to "Rheingold", "Ride of the Valkyries", Wotans Farewell and Magic Fire Music, Siegfrieds Funeral March and Brunhildes Immolation.
> 
> Beethoven Symphony #6
> 
> Rossini Overture to William Tell
> 
> Frank "The Accursed Huntsman"
> 
> Well, that's a good start.


Not really---TONE POEMS !!


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## Notung

Wagner's "Siegfried Idyll" is a beautiful love note to his wife, named after their son. There's no narrative, but maybe it'll interest you?


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## PetrB

LordBlackudder said:


>


Neither a tone poem or classical, wildly inappropriate and off topic. I have to say you are persistent and consistent.


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## PetrB

drpraetorus said:


> Mendelssohn The Hebrides,
> 
> Kalinikov "Nymphs"
> 
> Rimsky-Korsakov "Scherazade" Russian Easter Overture" "Flight of the Bumblebee"
> 
> Scriabin "Poem of Ecstasy" "Prometheus"
> 
> Liszt "Les Preludes" "Mazepa"
> 
> Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique"
> 
> Tchaikowsky "Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture"
> 
> Saint-Saens "Danse Macabre"
> 
> Dukas "The Sorcerers Apprentice"
> 
> Smentana "Ma Vlast"
> 
> Groffe "Grand Canyon Suite"
> 
> Gershwin "An American in Paris"
> 
> Wagner: Overture to "Flying Dutchman", Overture to "Lohengrin", Prelude to "Rheingold", "Ride of the Valkyries", Wotans Farewell and Magic Fire Music, Siegfrieds Funeral March and Brunhildes Immolation.
> 
> Beethoven Symphony #6
> 
> Rossini Overture to William Tell
> 
> Frank "The Accursed Huntsman"
> 
> Well, that's a good start.


Re-inventing the definition of tone poem by leaps and bounds, only a small few from this entire list are tone poems. ROFL.


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## PetrB

ChamberNut said:


> Thank you all for your recommendations. Obviously, the classification for symphonic/tone poems is much broader than I thought.


Many of the pieces listed in this thread are not in any way, shape, form, or by intent, Tone Poems. It makes one rather despair that people now think it is alright to "just make stuff up."

Go to the Harvard Dictionary of music, (Wikipedia is often 'good enough' while often again not good enough by half.) You want some more creditable and reliable source for your definition.
You might want to look under "Program Music"

*http://www.thefreedictionary.com/program+music*

from the *Dolmetsch Online Dictionary (a great on-line source)*
Programme symphony: a symphonic work that follows an underlying narrative...
Program music: (U.S.) programme music, descriptive music

La Mer and L'apres midi d'un faun are not tone poems, Debussy never having written a tone poem in any phase of his career (Wiki-dubious-pedia says Debussy generally wrote all of his music 'in that form' (it is not a form -- ridiculous). La Mer is a formal three-movement symphony, the title notwithstanding, and L'apres midi d'un faun is a ballet score.

Ravel did not write one either. Sibelius wrote a bunch, Smetena, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. No symphony or concerto titled simply "Symphony" or "concerto" is a tone poem, which includes a number of symphonies subtitled, "Pathetique," etc. 

That is for starters. 
Fingel's cave overture is an overture, with the inspiration of that music named, but it is not an illustrative narrative tale, like Till Eulinspiegel's Merry Pranks, or Ma Vlast, which are narrative by nature and intent.

I'm afraid you've been recommended a lot of good music, but guess near half, to date, in this thread are not exactly tone-poems.

It gets worse the more people think they can name what they want as fitting a definition they don't even fully know. Sign of the times in some quarters, maybe generational.

Some individual's listings are great, and appropriate. I'm not going to name names, it is impolitic to do so, so you are on your own to look up the definition (other than in Wiki) and sort what I see as a rather sorry mess of information / misinformation out for yourself.


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## drpraetorus

PetrB said:


> Re-inventing the definition of tone poem by leaps and bounds, only a small few from this entire list are tone poems. ROFL.


I suspect that the objection is to the Wagner inclusions. I cannot see that there is much controversy in my other suggestions. But it seems I must defend my ignorance.

The first point I must make is that we should not be too strict in trying to define a genre that has no tight definition. There are thing that are characteristic of "Tone Poems" or "Symphonic Poems" or "Program Music" or what ever name you want to use. The first characteristic is that the work is inspired by extra musical subjects/objects. It is not a work of "absolute music" such as a purely musical piece such as a Bach Trio Sonata where the music makes no references to anything beyond itself. Tone Poems can be inspired by any number of things and will make reference to them in the title (usually). If I may be allowed, here is a quote from the Encyclopedia Britanica

symphonic poem, also called Tone Poem, musical composition for orchestra inspired by an extra-musical idea, story, or "program," to which the title typically refers or alludes. The characteristic single-movement symphonic poem evolved from the concert-overture, an overture not attached to an opera or play yet suggestive of a literary or natural sequence of events (e.g., Mendelssohn's Fingal's Cave, also called Hebrides Overture).

A second point, that I believe is necessary is that a tone poem need not have a program. Some do, some do not. "Till Eulenspeigel" does. Zarathustra does not, yet both are tone poems. they both draw on extra musical themes and ideas. Tone poems that do not have a program or story are trying to invoke a mood, feeling or image. "Scheherazade" is considered to be a great tone poem yet it does not have a strong narrative. The sections are named to get our imagination going in the direction that Rimsky wanted them to go but he is only painting a picture not telling a story. As also "The Isle of the Dead". Whatever narrative there is there is strictly in the ear of listener as Rachmaninov does not list it in the score and the inspiration is simply a rather gloomy picture.

Next, a tone poem need not be in a single movement. As noted above, Scheherazade is in four movements. Symphonie Fantastique is in five movements. The Planets is in seven. Here we get into a very fuzzy area. When does a symphony cross the line from absolute music to tone poem? We need to accept that symphonies will often cross that line and do it more often as we get more into the 19th and 20th centuries. The Tchaikovsky 4,5 and 6 are extremely programmatic yet we accept them as symphonies but keep their contemporary, Scheherazade, in the tone poem category. A lot of the definition needs to rest with the composer. What was the intent? Is the Eroica just a symphony or is it a musical representation of a "Hero"? Beethovens "Pastoral" #6 is very programmatic yet we insist that it is more symphony than program. I feel that is a false choice. Part of the problem is that, starting in the early 19th century with Beethoven and his contemporaries, symphonies had to be about SOMETHING. This necessitated music that was more programmatic and some symphonies, like the Tchaikovsky 4th with very specific programs.

Given the above, I think that my choices are, for the most part, self explanatory. But some are not. I included the Wagner works because he can, better than most, create pictures in the minds eye with his music. The Flying Dutchman overture is one of the best "storm at sea" tone poems regardless of the opera that it precedes. It can and does stand on its own as a work of music. The Lohengrin prelude is another overture that can stand independent of its opera. The prelude is a stunningly beautiful musical description of the process of revelation or enlightenment.

To understand the prelude to Rheingold you have to ask the same question that Wagner posed to himself. "What does the beginning of time sound like"? I suggest that you get a piano score to Rheingold and see what his visual intentions were for staging this prelude. You will see that it is a perfect evocation of the beginning of time. Likewise, what does the end of the world sound like? How do you eulogize the greatest hero the world has ever known? That is what Siegfrieds Funeral march and Brunhildes Immolation are all about. The music is so strong that we can create the images in our minds with sharp clarity. As also "The Ride of the Valkyries" and "Wotans Fairwell and the Magic Fire Music". I wish that modern movie music could be half a evocative as these excerpts.

The "Prometheus" is a bit hard to attach a meaning or program to, which is what Scriabin wanted. "Poem of Ecstasy" on the other hand is easy. It's about sex. Make sure the children have left the room when you listen to it. You'll never look at a trumpet the same way again.

The William Tell Overture is another overture that is descriptive and stands on its own as an independent work. Most people have never actually heard the full opera. Wagner thought highly of it. The overture has four sections. The first, with the beautiful cello ensamble is thought to be representative of the oppression of the Swiss people, a storm on the lake, calm after the storm and finally the famous March. It is a short, and wonderful tone poem. Don't take my word for it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703555804576102130512826172.html

Nun rede, weiser Zwerg:
wusst' ich der Fragen Rat?
Behalte mein Haupt ich frei?


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## DeepR

drpraetorus said:


> The "Prometheus" is a bit hard to attach a meaning or program to, which is what Scriabin wanted. "Poem of Ecstasy" on the other hand is easy. It's about sex. Make sure the children have left the room when you listen to it. You'll never look at a trumpet the same way again.


That's too superficial. Scriabin wrote a program and a long poem to go along with it, which I've read. Scriabin's ideas and texts may all be vague to us in the end, but at least I'm pretty sure there are deeper meanings behind it... it's more about spiritual ecstasy than just the physical act of sex.


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## Mahlerian

drpraetorus said:


> A second point, that I believe is necessary is that a tone poem need not have a program. Some do, some do not. "Till Eulenspeigel" does. Zarathustra does not, yet both are tone poems. they both draw on extra musical themes and ideas. Tone poems that do not have a program or story are trying to invoke a mood, feeling or image. "Scheherazade" is considered to be a great tone poem yet it does not have a strong narrative. The sections are named to get our imagination going in the direction that Rimsky wanted them to go but he is only painting a picture not telling a story. As also "The Isle of the Dead". Whatever narrative there is there is strictly in the ear of listener as Rachmaninov does not list it in the score and the inspiration is simply a rather gloomy picture.


Also sprach Zarathustra has a very specific program. Program and narrative are not the same thing.



drpraetorus said:


> Next, a tone poem need not be in a single movement. As noted above, Scheherazade is in four movements. Symphonie Fantastique is in five movements. The Planets is in seven. Here we get into a very fuzzy area. When does a symphony cross the line from absolute music to tone poem? We need to accept that symphonies will often cross that line and do it more often as we get more into the 19th and 20th centuries. The Tchaikovsky 4,5 and 6 are extremely programmatic yet we accept them as symphonies but keep their contemporary, Scheherazade, in the tone poem category. A lot of the definition needs to rest with the composer. What was the intent? Is the Eroica just a symphony or is it a musical representation of a "Hero"? Beethovens "Pastoral" #6 is very programmatic yet we insist that it is more symphony than program. I feel that is a false choice. Part of the problem is that, starting in the early 19th century with Beethoven and his contemporaries, symphonies had to be about SOMETHING. This necessitated music that was more programmatic and some symphonies, like the Tchaikovsky 4th with very specific programs.


The line is form. Liszt's tone poems had their programs added mostly ad hoc and changed at will, but they were not in any semblance of conventional symphonic form. For all of their formal eccentricities, the symphonies of Berlioz and Tchaikovsky fit within the outlines of traditional structures. Strauss's tone poems do not, by any stretch of the imagination, and neither, as far as I recall, does Scheherazade.


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## PetrB

A symphony with a known programmatic intent:
Darius Milhaud ~ Symphony No. 8 "Rhôdanienne"
"The Symphony No. 8, op. 362, subtitled Rhôdanienne... was written in 1957 on a commission from the University of California. Its four programmatic movements paint a musical landscape of the course of the Rhone River." ~ (Wiki)


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## mtmailey

DVORAK vodnik is great GERSHWIN an american in paris good also.


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## Tapkaara

Take your pick from anything by Sibelius. Any one of his tone poems are surely to satisfy anyone with a hankering for tone poetry. May I suggest specifically Night Ride and Sunrise. It's well known by Sibelius specialists, of course, but maybe lesser known by the classical music public at large. The first half is kinda quirky with its relentless ostinato rhythms portraying the "night ride" of the horse-drawn sledge. The second half is a resplendent sunrise with some of the most gorgeous horn writing you'll likely ever hear anywhere.


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## moody

Some wonderful eloquence above but altering the correct musical description of a tone poem will not be the result.
Incidentally the Wall Street Journal man is not any sort of authority.


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## Vaneyes

OP CN, MIA since 2011.


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## Ukko

The program, official or otherwise, does not make the poem.


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## drpraetorus

At the risk of opening a huge can of worms and getting this post removed, I will say something about Scriabins "Poem of Ecstasy".

Scriabin was a mystic, theosophist, symbolist Nietzschean. What that means, in short, is that he saw things from a different angle than most people. He was looking for enlightenment and through enlightenment, to become the god or Ubermensch of Neitzschen philosophy. For Scriabin, and for humans from time immemorial, they way to touch and merge with the divine was through the ecstatic experience of sex. This is not just your standard run of the mill encounter. This is a union that produces an orgasm that takes one out of the mundane and approaches the otherworldly state that only hallucinogenic drugs can mimic in an asexual situation.

That is Scriabins idea of ecstasy.

It is evident from just the music itself that Scriabin is describing this transcendent sexual experience. But there is also his own word in the matter. His first title for the Poem of Ecstasy was "Poème Orgiaque" or Orgiastic Poem. In his biography of Scriabin, Faubian Bowers writes:

"If the Third Symphony was to have been a "manifestation", the Fourth [Poem of Ecstasy] was a "manifesto". However, behind this distillation of Scriabins worldview was something blunt - sex. The first draft in the Italian Notebook of 1905 labels the compostion "Orgiastic Poem" (Poem Orgiaque). "Orgiastic" meant to Scribing "orgasmic". Some of the actual passages of the poem are explicit, and so are the central pages of the music score (measures 507-530) marked "with a voluptiousness becoming more ecstatic" (avec une volupte de plus extatique), although the line between physical and religious ecstasy has been blured."

The program notes from the L.A. Philharmonic performance this year (2013-2014) say this about the Poem of Ecstasy:

"A mystical Nietzschean, Scriabin fell under the sway of Madame Blavatsky's theosophical teachings in 1905, and his consuming egomania, fed by the adoration of Tatyana Schloezer, became boundless. The composer firmly believed himself to be the conduit for divine truth, and that it was his purpose to prepare humanity for the reconciliation of Man and Divinity that lay ahead by creating revelatory music and bringing about the ultimate commingling of all the arts. The state of ecstasy was a key component in Scriabin's theosophy, and in 1905 he wrote a long, rambling, mystical poem entitled "The Poem of Ecstasy," whose expressions of self-absorption would make Walt Whitman blush. This literary work served as the basis for both his Fifth Piano Sonata (Op. 53, 1907) and his orchestral Poem of Ecstasy. The latter work became the central piece in a trilogy with the earlier Third Symphony ("Le divin poème"; 1902-4) and later Prometheus ("Le poème de feu"; 1908-10).
In his notebooks, Scriabin first used the title Poème Orgiaque (Orgiastic Poem), and the voluptuousness of the piece, eventually renamed Poem of Ecstasy, seems to have been a musical representation of the explicit sexuality described in the verbal poem. In its free, single-movement form, The Poem of Ecstasy somewhat resembles Mussorgsky's St. John's Night on Bald Mountain, though Scriabin's work is meant to depict a sacred (i.e., Scriabin's own) orgy: the sensual glorification of the Man-God (i.e., of Alexander Scriabin). Faubion Bowers has provided the best capsule description of this sexually charged music:
"Its free sonata form consists of an exposition and development, with reprise and development almost identically paralleling each other. Harmonically, the entire composition sounds like a continuous suspension of dominant ninths, elevenths, twelfths. Passively languorous and emaciated at times, twisting and turning, dramatically fearful at others, strongly and unrelentingly building and increasing, slowing down only to speed up, softening so as to harden, and passing through shudders of fleeting ravishment to the ear moderato avec délice (with delight), presque en delire (almost deliriously), moments marked charmé (as if enchanted), The Poem of Ecstasy continues unabated towards the beginning of the orgasm with the clarinet sweetly singing, and finishes in spirit and in flesh. All color disappears here; only volume remains (the score calls for a pipe organ). Then a brief coda of weariness, and the end sees the composition's resolution in C major."

Yeah, it's about sex.

http://www.laphil.com/philpedia/music/poem-of-ecstasy-alexander-scriabin
http://books.google.com/books?id=Id...epage&q=text poem of ecstasy scriabin&f=false


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## drpraetorus

moody said:


> Some wonderful eloquence above but altering the correct musical description of a tone poem will not be the result.
> Incidentally the Wall Street Journal man is not any sort of authority.


One does not become the music and arts critic for a major newspaper without knowing a smidgeon about the subject.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6ykv0zhiui_b


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## Selby

drpraetorus said:


> At the risk of opening a huge can of worms and getting this post removed, I will say something about Scriabins "Poem of Ecstasy".
> 
> Scriabin was a mystic, theosophist, symbolist Nietzschean. What that means, in short, is that he saw things from a different angle than most people. He was looking for enlightenment and through enlightenment, to become the god or Ubermensch of Neitzschen philosophy. For Scriabin, and for humans from time immemorial, they way to touch and merge with the divine was through the ecstatic experience of sex. This is not just your standard run of the mill encounter. This is a union that produces an orgasm that takes one out of the mundane and approaches the otherworldly state that only hallucinogenic drugs can mimic in an asexual situation.
> 
> That is Scriabins idea of ecstasy.
> 
> It is evident from just the music itself that Scriabin is describing this transcendent sexual experience. But there is also his own word in the matter. His first title for the Poem of Ecstasy was "Poème Orgiaque" or Orgiastic Poem. In his biography of Scriabin, Faubian Bowers writes:
> 
> "If the Third Symphony was to have been a "manifestation", the Fourth [Poem of Ecstasy] was a "manifesto". However, behind this distillation of Scriabins worldview was something blunt - sex. The first draft in the Italian Notebook of 1905 labels the compostion "Orgiastic Poem" (Poem Orgiaque). "Orgiastic" meant to Scribing "orgasmic". Some of the actual passages of the poem are explicit, and so are the central pages of the music score (measures 507-530) marked "with a voluptiousness becoming more ecstatic" (avec une volupte de plus extatique), although the line between physical and religious ecstasy has been blured."
> 
> The program notes from the L.A. Philharmonic performance this year (2013-2014) say this about the Poem of Ecstasy:
> 
> "A mystical Nietzschean, Scriabin fell under the sway of Madame Blavatsky's theosophical teachings in 1905, and his consuming egomania, fed by the adoration of Tatyana Schloezer, became boundless. The composer firmly believed himself to be the conduit for divine truth, and that it was his purpose to prepare humanity for the reconciliation of Man and Divinity that lay ahead by creating revelatory music and bringing about the ultimate commingling of all the arts. The state of ecstasy was a key component in Scriabin's theosophy, and in 1905 he wrote a long, rambling, mystical poem entitled "The Poem of Ecstasy," whose expressions of self-absorption would make Walt Whitman blush. This literary work served as the basis for both his Fifth Piano Sonata (Op. 53, 1907) and his orchestral Poem of Ecstasy. The latter work became the central piece in a trilogy with the earlier Third Symphony ("Le divin poème"; 1902-4) and later Prometheus ("Le poème de feu"; 1908-10).
> In his notebooks, Scriabin first used the title Poème Orgiaque (Orgiastic Poem), and the voluptuousness of the piece, eventually renamed Poem of Ecstasy, seems to have been a musical representation of the explicit sexuality described in the verbal poem. In its free, single-movement form, The Poem of Ecstasy somewhat resembles Mussorgsky's St. John's Night on Bald Mountain, though Scriabin's work is meant to depict a sacred (i.e., Scriabin's own) orgy: the sensual glorification of the Man-God (i.e., of Alexander Scriabin). Faubion Bowers has provided the best capsule description of this sexually charged music:
> "Its free sonata form consists of an exposition and development, with reprise and development almost identically paralleling each other. Harmonically, the entire composition sounds like a continuous suspension of dominant ninths, elevenths, twelfths. Passively languorous and emaciated at times, twisting and turning, dramatically fearful at others, strongly and unrelentingly building and increasing, slowing down only to speed up, softening so as to harden, and passing through shudders of fleeting ravishment to the ear moderato avec délice (with delight), presque en delire (almost deliriously), moments marked charmé (as if enchanted), The Poem of Ecstasy continues unabated towards the beginning of the orgasm with the clarinet sweetly singing, and finishes in spirit and in flesh. All color disappears here; only volume remains (the score calls for a pipe organ). Then a brief coda of weariness, and the end sees the composition's resolution in C major."
> 
> Yeah, it's about sex.
> 
> http://www.laphil.com/philpedia/music/poem-of-ecstasy-alexander-scriabin
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Id...epage&q=text poem of ecstasy scriabin&f=false


Did anyone else, upon reading this, feel the urgent need to immediately go and re-listen to this?

The question is, which version? Luckily I can accomplish this while I take a lunch break today.


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## DeepR

Well, that's sort of what I meant. Saying it is just "about sex" sounds rather blunt without putting it into context. It is about the spiritual, immaterial side of sex... transcendence through ecstasy... rather than the carnal, physical side of sex.

From the Carnegie Hall site:



> The Poem of Ecstasy, Scriabin's most famous work, belongs to the second phase. It concerns spiritual striving for another world-another level of perception in a different configuration of space and time. The Poem of Ecstasy is based on an actual poem, but Scriabin suppressed it from performances, preferring the experience of the music to be absolute, unmediated by words. Even so, the titles of the three sections of the score provide sufficient clues to understanding his aims: the soul in the orgy of love, realization of a fantastic dream, and the glory of one's own art.
> 
> The soul, or ego, is represented heroically by a solo trumpet. The orgy of love is embodied by a series of half-pleasurable, half-painful chords derived from the whole-tone scale. The middle section of the score exploits a series of symmetrical chords that denote the suspension of time and space, as well as an agonized extension of the desire for ecstatic release. This desire could be described as sexual, except that Scriabin seeks to portray transcendence apart from the carnal human condition. (The Poem of Ecstasy refers to Richard Wagner's drama Tristan und Isolde, whose title characters seek to escape the material plane for the immaterial one.) The final section of the score offers, after 20 minutes of anguished dissonance, the revelation of C major. This key is a musical symbol of sorts for the ego fulfilling its quest for transcendence by transcending itself. The final words of the source poem confirm the feeling Scriabin wanted to express: "I," meaning the ego, "am Ecstasy."


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## Rehydration

I heard Vltava today. It was definetely worth it.


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## Celloman

Don't forget Arnold Bax. He wrote some excellent tone poems, such as Tintagel, The Garden of Fand, The Tale the Pine Trees Told, The Happy Forest, etc. I wish his music was played more often, it's really a pity. Good stuff.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I would recommend Les Préludes by Liszt but it was probably already mentioned .


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## KenOC

An oddball, but one I like. Shostakovich's only tone poem -- October. And it's his Op. 131, so it's gotta be good!


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## spradlig

Sorry for any misspellings:

Zubin Mehta called Gershwin's "An American in Paris" the "great American tone poem" and I agree.

Probably already mentioned it, but I Strauss's "Alpensimphonie". 

I like Moussorgsky's original version of "Night on Bald Mountain" (I am not referring to Rimsky-Korsakov's adaptation, which is much more often performed). It really is a completely different piece from the Rimsky-Korsakov arrangement, and is more scary.

"Francesca da Rimini" by Tchaikovsky - not sure if it an "overture" or "tone poem". Neglected, especially compared to the great but overplayed "Romeo and Juliet".

"Josephlegende" by Richard Strauss. Actually a ballet, but I don't think anyone danses to it.


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## LouisMasterMusic

I share MungoPark's admiration for Mussorgsky's A Night On The Bare Mountain, but in the Rimsky-Korsakov arrangement, but I also enjoy Debussy's Prelude A L'apres-Midi D'un Faune (and I don't consider a ballet; presumably Rondo also doesn't). Elgar's Cockgaine Overture (In London Town) is another one of my favourites. I also admire the Richard Strauss tone poems I have listened to (Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Also Sprach Zarathustra, although I only remember Sunrise, and Symphonia Domestica which I don't really remember anything of). The reason is because of how he uses the orchestra to tell his stories so vividly.

Oh, and while we're talking about vividness, let's not forget Tchaikovsky's incredibly moving retelling of Romeo and Juliet, true musical picture-painting and story-telling.


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