# Opera beginner with a few questions



## Blue Miasma (Oct 17, 2014)

​Okay so after watching a film called Amadeus which I found myself falling asleep to until I heard something that awakened something in me (that being what I discovered is called the commendatore scene) and I can't explain how or why but after hearing it I couldn't get it out of my head, Classical & Opera music is something I've heard before but not heard like you hear bits on TV and films but that's about it I've never sat down and actually listened well until now, so after a troublesome night of trying to get to sleep (I couldn't get that scene out of my head) the following day I brought the film Amadeus on blu ray and watched it properly repeating the commendatore scene a little too much lol but it's just well words can't really describe it but the more I watched I started to take note of the other musical pieces in the film and then started to look up about Mozart online as after watching the film a good few times other bits started to have a effect on me namely the requiem pieces and I stumbled upon this forum while looking for a list of recommended Opera recordings as I'm a bit superstitious and knew there had to be a reason why that commendatore scene had such a effect on me and I needed to find out what it was and why yet at the same time a sense that maybe it's a sign or warning (maybe sounds stupid I know but...?) so I put the Black Metal music aside and started a journey into discovering Opera so far I've acquired these:

Bizet - 
Carmen - Pappano (DVD) 
Handel - 
Messiah - Marriner (CD) * not sure if this is classified as Opera? 
Mozart - 
Die Zauberflöte - Sawallisch (CD) 
- Die Zauberflöte - Davis (BR) 
- Don Giovanni - Mackerras (BR) 
- Le Nozze di Figaro - Pappano (BR) 
Puccini - 
Madama Butterfly - Barbirolli (CD) 
Rossini - 
Il Barbiere di Siviglia - Pappano (DVD) 
Verdi - 
La Traviata - Solti (DVD) 
Wagner - 
Tristan und Isolde - Böhm (CD)

And I have 7 different versions of Don Giovanni! A cenar teco as well as the very best of Maria Callas & Renata Scotto Italian Opera Arias on mp3 format on my phone.

Now all of this has been in the space of a month and everyday I've been getting pulled further into Opera and drastically moving away from Black Metal but at this stage I still consider myself as uninitiated with Opera so I have a few questions which I'm hoping your answers will greatly help me with this journey I'm having so here goes:

How important is the choice of a Opera CD/DVD regarding the conductor, what I mean is are there certain conductors that can bring out the best in the performers (Orchestra & Sopranos) that other conductors can't, are there certain conductors that are rubbish at Mozart but excellent at Wagner and how do you judge how good a conductor is?, if that makes sense because from my observations on the DVD's and please don't take offence as I'm no pro and although different Operas but this is just a example Pappano seems a bit too full of himself and just wearing a black shirt seems unprofessional compared to Solti who seems to be totally professional in his dress and seems to conduct with grace and authority.

How important is the libretto?, like when watching the DVD's I've had the subtitles turned off because I can visually see what's happening and at the moment I'm enjoying the pure beauty of the music and singing but this is the best I can explain it, take the aria "Poveri fiori" from Adrienne Lecouvreur now if I could understand a word that she [Callas] was singing I think I'd sink even further into depression yet the sound of her voice fills me with such joy that I can't stop listening to her, I'm worried that reading the libretto will ruin the pieces that I enjoy the most yet not so much with the DVD's because that's visual I already have a feeling what's being sung but it's more about the CD's.

Why does Opera seem to be a elitist music, catered to rich or upper class people, ticket prices @ ROH seem to give me this impression along with the advertisements in gramophone magazine and cost of some CD's/DVD's compared to other music genres?, I'll probably feel stupid about this question in the future but at the stage I'm at this is how I see it.

I'm ready (or feel ready) to plunge deeper into Opera and go to my first one in November @ ROH but what do I see Mozart's Idomeneo or Donizetti's L'Elisir D'Amore?, I haven't heard either and never been to a Opera before so don't know what to expect but I'm determined to see one of them while I can afford it.

Based on all the above is there any suggestions or recommendations that you have for me and thanks in advance for taking the time to read and reply.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2014)

What a way to get into opera! The commendatore sure can have that effect on you... 

Most recordings of operas on CDs that are widely available are excellent, so don't get bogged down trying to find the "perfect" recording. 

There's not one "proper" way to discover a new opera. 

I find that first listening to an opera while reading the libretto with translation is a great way to assimilate the music and the story. You could even read the libretto first, and then listen. Then you can watch a DVD without subtitles once you're familiar with the story.

Opera is very costly to produce so even ticket prices don't cover half of the expenses of an opera house. They need donors, sponsors, and more funding. So why don't you put those ideas of elitism aside. You can find a ton of CDS at your local library. 

I would go see Mozart Idomeneo. It's not produced nearly as often as Elisir D'Amore and I believe that you will enjoy it very much. I wish I could see that one live!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

WOW, Tristan already! Took me awhile on that one,

Just take it one at a time, And ask us.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The fact that you would rather not be bothered with subtitles is a plus. Your attention from the singers and the singing and the action going on onstage is diverted with subtitles. My suggestion is that you first read a synopsis (my bible for that is the Kobbe's Opera Book) or the libretto in order to familiarize yourself with the opera and then you will get a really good idea of what is going on without having to submit to subtitles.
It is always a more complete experience to see as well as hear an opera so when you can afford DVD's of your choice, do so.
I am in the minority when some suggest following the opera with the libretto. I much prefer having read the synopsis or libretto first and then listening with my heart instead of my mind to the whole opera and letting my imagination take over without any side disturbances.
Opera is coming down off it's high horse of the past where wealthy elitists all dressed up in gowns and tuxes. Today, opera is starting to appeal much more to the masses -- slowly but surely it has been making inroads to the younger generation thanks to the very attainable HD's in a nearby movie theater where you can chomp on your popcorn and drink your coke without anyone looking askance at you. 
I envy you and your new found enthusiasm for my passion. I wish I were back there again in the throes of discovery. What a wonderful road of riches you have before you.
Enjoy every moment -- and welcome to the most magnificent of obsessions -- opera.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I just recently got into opera in a big way, starting with a purchase of a DVD of Fidelio last December. Now I have videos of seven operas. I always like to read the libretto once and then watch with English subtitles until I am very familiar with the opera. Then when I play it on CD I know what is going on. I find the more I watch a particular opera the less I am looking at the subtitles. I found a lot of my operas by reading synopses of dozens of operas. I recommend careful selection of both CD and DVD for each opera. I like to check it out on You Tube before buying a DVD. So far I have Fidelio, La Cenerentola, La Sonnambula, La Serva Padrona, Martha (Flotow), La Fille du Regiment, and Meistersinger.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Met is Broadcasting Figaro to cinemas on Saturday night. I fear my duties as a grandfather may hinder me seeing it!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

To the OP, the thing about opera, as no doubt you are discovering is that it is so multi-faceted. Tunes, words, stories, orchestration, production, designers, costumes, singers, orchestra and conductors. And that makes it so compelling, as there's always a reason to go to any opera house, always a reason for yet another recording of the Ring Cycle.

My advice would be to get to know the core works first, as this pleasure of ours is nothing without Wagner, Verdi, Mozart et al. The chances are you'll be bowled over by many of them, regardless of who is performing.

If you buy DVD's get used to being disappointed! The sound and video quality and sometimes the productions may not hit the mark. I've found the Amazon Love Film DVD service saves me a lot of money, and the choice of operas is pretty large.

Don't forget that London also has ENO, where you're just as likely to enjoy the opera as Covent Garden. A lot cheaper too.

Oh, and don't forget to check out the famous aria from La Gioconda ;-)


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Blue Miasma said:


> [/LEF
> Why does Opera seem to be a elitist music, catered to rich or upper class people, ticket prices @ ROH seem to give me this impression along with the advertisements in gramophone magazine and cost of some CD's/DVD's compared to other music genres?, I'll probably feel stupid about this question in the future but at the stage I'm at this is how I see it.
> 
> I'm ready (or feel ready) to plunge deeper into Opera and go to my first one in November @ ROH but what do I see Mozart's Idomeneo or Donizetti's L'Elisir D'Amore?, I haven't heard either and never been to a Opera before so don't know what to expect but I'm determined to see one of them while I can afford it.
> ...




Why does opera seem to be elitist? That's a very big question and I'm sure sizeable books could be written on that subject, and probably have been. I'll confine myself to a few practical observations  Adverts in the Gramophone magazine are there to take advantage of the grey pound. Obviously they will try to push the most expensive audio equipment, full priced CDs, expensive event tickets etc. If you're young and impecunious, Gramophone probably isn't aimed at you, but since the internet came along I haven't felt tempted to look into its pages at all! Plenty of complete operas on YouTube as I'm sure you know, cheap CDs on eBay and Amazon Marketplace. That's where I get most things. A friend of mine regularly gets tickets for Covent Garden for around the £10 mark. I haven't spoken to him recently and some inflation may have taken place but I think it's still possible to get inexpensive seats, possibly involving booking a long way in advance. There have always been cash-strapped opera lovers and we may even be in the majority, not that you'd know it from glossy magazines which consist largely of adverts and advertorial, for obvious commercial reasons!​


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Alexander said:


> Oh, and don't forget to check out the famous aria from La Gioconda ;-)


I think I know the one you mean  but the equally famous Cielo e mar is probably a better tonic for low spirits!


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2014)

By the way, as an aside, when I was 17 and 18, I really got into death metal music. It was my descent to a new level of musical intensity after my teens spent listening to heavy metal. I don't think Black Metal existed back then, but I would probably have gotten into that. I started playing the electric guitar at 17, and enrolled at a music college at 18. But then one day I saw someone play the classical guitar. He was playing the famous Bach cello prelude, arranged for the guitar. I had never heard such beautiful and complex music on the guitar before, and in one instant I decided to put all my energies into learning classical guitar and music. 

After three years of college, I didn't continue to higher level university studies, because I found better career opportunities. However, music has always been part of me since. I'm 38 now. I started becoming maniacal and obsessed with classical music and opera about a year ago. Before that I would listen to classical music but I didn't have much time to get into it as I was really involved in my career. And for me passions tend to be all or nothing. 

Seeing an opera live for the first time really was the "turn of the screw" (pun intended) for me, convincing me further that this was the highest art form. I believe if you see a good opera live you will be hooked for life. Mine was Turandot. Idomeneo would have done it too!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

DoReFaMi-

Thank you for elaborating on what Black Metal is- I wanted to ask but was afraid of looking stupid! When I was young a lot of the brainy boys were into death metal and I can imagine them being CM fans in later life- because they were brainy that is, not because CM is like death/thrash metal!


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Keep in mind that ye olde youtube has a lot of complete operas on it. Type in the name of the opera, followed by _*,long*_ to remove the short videos from the search. eg. _*Carmen, long*_
That way you can try before you buy.
I picked these two randomly.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is a short opera, an intermezzo in fact, that has only two voices, bass and soprano. This singers in this are excellent.


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## Blue Miasma (Oct 17, 2014)

Thank you all for the responses & recommendations, I went ahead on DoReFaMi's recommendation out of the choices and will be seeing Idomeneo on the 6th of Nov I was sort of leaning towards that over L'Elisir D'Amore as it's Mozart that started this experience for me so it's his Opera that I should see first. I just wished that I discovered this music years ago but I probably wasn't ready for it then, at the moment I feel like a kid with his first chemistry set there's just too much to explore luckily I have a Amazon voucher saved so will be buying some random Arias from various Operas instead of buying a complete one hopefully this will give me a better insight into different composers also I learnt the importance of the libretto/subtitles today as was watching my Le Nozze di Figaro blu ray, now when watching before I thought the song "Non più andrai" was Figaro threatening to kill Cherubino for being in Susanna's bed lol only to find out that with the subtitles I was completely wrong and the Opera had me in fits of laughter I can't remember when I laughed as much as today it's pure magic and knowing what was happening definitely enhanced the viewing but I still don't feel ready to want to know what's being sung in Butterfly or Tristan just yet as it's too beautiful to want to know yet but will have subtitles on when I watch La Traviata later


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Blue Miasma said:


> I learnt the importance of the libretto/subtitles today as was watching my Le Nozze di Figaro blu ray, now when watching before I thought the song "Non più andrai" was Figaro threatening to kill Cherubino for being in Susanna's bed lol only to find out that with the subtitles I was completely wrong and the Opera had me in fits of laughter I can't remember when I laughed as much as today it's pure magic and knowing what was happening definitely enhanced the viewing but I still don't feel ready to want to know what's being sung in Butterfly or Tristan just yet as it's too beautiful to want to know yet but will have subtitles on when I watch La Traviata later


LOL, we've all been there with song lyrics and opera libretti. I once translated Hugo Wolf's song 'Herr, was trägt der Boden hier' ('Lord, what will the soil bring forth') as 'Sir, what is the floor wearing here?'. Maybe, having heard at least one version of the aria on your DVD, you could listen to Sir Charles Santley's famous 'Non piu andrai' if you haven't already. He was an old man when it was recorded and the sound quality isn't great, but it's proper elegant 19th century Mozart singing, and he doesn't sound like he's threatening to kill anyone!


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Very nice 1st post, congratulations! I also happen to have a Don Giovanni addiction. My remedy was & is: going Russian. Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev. Especially Tchaikovsky's 'Pique Dame' has moments as thrilling as the Commendatore scene. With Valery Gergiev as conductor, the operatic seas of emotion will for sure rise as high as you may have wished for in your wildest dreams and the Sirens will cause you to jump overboard...


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Even when the libretto is in English, I hardly concern myself with it. Get an idea of the basic storyline and let the music sweep you away. 

I'm listening to Don Giovanni now and I don't know a knick of what they're saying... I know the storyline, but the detailed verbiage I can do without. The music/vocals speak volumes, and it's lovely.


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