# Contemporary Music?



## shostako (Mar 5, 2012)

I've just joined, but I have to say that I'm shocked at how conservative the crowd here is -- lots of dead 18th and 19th century Europeans. Almost nothing before 1950 pops up, and even pre-1950 titans like Varese and Schoenberg are barely mentioned here, even though their influences in music are still strongly felt today.

Where are the admirers of minimalism and post-minimalism? The spectralists? The Helsinki school? What about Lutoslawski? Messiaen (other than Turangalila) and Boulez? Elliott Carter? All "tougher" composers, I admit (with exception of the minimalists), but incredibly rich variety of sonorities that are really rewarding once you get to know them better.

In my mind, the endless repetition of Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms in concert halls today reinforces the idea that the symphony orchestra just plays the same old symphonies from 150-200 years ago -- a totally stale anachronism that has lost relevance and will die off with the older generation. That's just sad.

Anyway, it'd be great to find people who find 20th century music and beyond as attractive as I do. I'm always on the lookout for new music to listen to, and would love to share ideas.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

There are plenty of us here who listen to modern music. Perhaps you should use the search engine for topics and composers of interest. There is a huge backlog of threads stored by this forum.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Yes, myself and starthrower both like contemporary styles quite a bit. We would both love to talk about contemporary classical music with you, along with other members of the forum.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

You must be rather optimistic to find it shocking that the majority of classical listeners are conservative in taste!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

It's a topic that comes up a lot. So I'd like to think about it... 

If we divide the eras of music up in 50 year periods (suggested by the OP's comment about the last 50 years), we get something like: 

1362-1412
1412-1462
1462-1512
1512-1562
1562-1612
1612-1662
1662-1712
1712-1762
1762-1812
1812-1862
1862-1912
1912-1962
1962-2012

So even if we didn't listen to Medieval music at all, but if we listened to and conversed about the rest of Western music proportionally, the last fifty years would be 1/13th of our listening and conversation. I'd bet it gets that. 

What seems more neglected is the Renaissance and early Baroque. 

As for me... well, I neglect that period too. I'm certainly stronger on the past 50 years than I am on 1300-1650.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I must confess that, in terms of classical music, i sometimes neglect mostly everything but the period 1685-1750...

However, i don't think it's fair to say that all members neglect contemporary music. In fact, if i look at the composer guestbook section of the forum, most of the threads are about 20th century composers.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

shostako said:


> I've just joined, but I have to say that I'm shocked at how conservative the crowd here is -- lots of dead 18th and 19th century Europeans. Almost nothing before 1950 pops up, and even pre-1950 titans like Varese and Schoenberg are barely mentioned here, even though their influences in music are still strongly felt today.
> 
> Where are the admirers of minimalism and post-minimalism? The spectralists? The Helsinki school? What about Lutoslawski? Messiaen (other than Turangalila) and Boulez? Elliott Carter? All "tougher" composers, I admit (with exception of the minimalists), but incredibly rich variety of sonorities that are really rewarding once you get to know them better.
> 
> ...


Welcome. Do name us some of your favourite 20th century composers and pieces. You will eventually find that most of us do listen to at least some 20th century music around here, and it is actually not as "stale" as you might presume.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Just have a look in the current listening thread and you'll see how interesting some of the actively listened to repertoire here gets. Not only 20th century, but obscurities from earlier centuries.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

It's been my experience on this forum that the members here are vastly more knowledgeable about contemporary classical music than the average classical listener that I know. Repeatedly people here express the desire to have more modern and contemporary music played on the radio and in concerts. Hopefully you can find many interesting threads on TC related to contemporary music and composers.

You might check out the thread Exploring Modern and Contemporary Music. That thread lists and discusses works by modern and contemporary composers. It has been dormant recently, but please feel free to post some music you like to get things going again.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I agree with most of what others have to say. There is some discussion here of more recent musics. You have to keep in mind though that this isn't just a contemporary classical forum, it's a general classical music forum. So there will be things here that may interest you, others not that much (eg. I rarely go to the opera forum, but I think it's a good thing it's there, I've been helped in that area by members who are regulars there).



shostako said:


> I've just joined, but I have to say that I'm shocked at how conservative the crowd here is -- lots of dead 18th and 19th century Europeans...


Funny you mention that. Recently I've been listening to a good deal of Australian music. I have put reviews of cd's I listen to, both of living and dead composers, on THIS thread I set up. You can do this, set up your own thread and talk about what you like, some people do take the time to read what you say & maybe respond, I have found.



> ...Almost nothing before 1950 pops up, and even pre-1950 titans like Varese and Schoenberg are barely mentioned here, even though their influences in music are still strongly felt today.
> 
> Where are the admirers of minimalism and post-minimalism? The spectralists? The Helsinki school? What about Lutoslawski? Messiaen (other than Turangalila) and Boulez? Elliott Carter? All "tougher" composers, I admit (with exception of the minimalists), but incredibly rich variety of sonorities that are really rewarding once you get to know them better...


I for one do listen to Messiaen fairly regularly, and as a matter of fact, _Turangalila-symphonie _is a work I rarely listen to (but do have on disc). I have found I have an urge to listen to his other works more for whatever reason, his song cycles, solo piano & chamber.

Of the others you mention, I do listen to works by Carter, Lutoslawski, Schoenberg fairly regularly. Boulez not that much, although love his piano sonatas. Varese was one of my gateways into post-1945 musics, but I rarely listen to him now as he's quite intense. But he's still a favourite.

A fair amount of people here listen to the minimalists (eg. of the USA who emerged in the 1960's - eg. Glass, Reich, Riley, etc.). As for post-minimalists, not much people here seem to, although I've heard some of that music, one of our own Australian composers, Nigel Westlake, can be described as that. Some members do listen to spectralists, eg. Saariaho and Murail, I think they are under that umbrella. As for the Helsinki School - do you mean Lindberg and Salonen? Some members here have listened to Lindberg, I know it for sure. But I'm not highly familiar of the modern Finns. I don't really like Rautavaara, but he's not in that group, he's older.



> ...
> In my mind, the endless repetition of Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms in concert halls today reinforces the idea that the symphony orchestra just plays the same old symphonies from 150-200 years ago -- a totally stale anachronism that has lost relevance and will die off with the older generation. That's just sad...


I felt like that before, and ranted about it a bit, but now realise it's better to expend positive energy. & that's what I do. I also realised that I like a lot of the older music, eg. of before 1900. My main area of focus is from 1800 until today. But I also like a number of composers from before 1800, quite a few actually.



> ...
> Anyway, it'd be great to find people who find 20th century music and beyond as attractive as I do. I'm always on the lookout for new music to listen to, and would love to share ideas.


Yes, that is good, and we look forward to your contributions here in future.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

There are many here who share your thoughts Shostako, you just haven't looked hard enough


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I listen to modern classical more than any other period. George Crumb, Stockhausen, Boulez, Schönberg, Bartók, Messiaen, Glass, Reich, Gérard Grisey, Xenakis, Avro, Ligeti, Carter, Shostakovich and the like are among my favorites. I've never been on a forum that has embraced contemporary classical as much as this forum.

Oh dear, how could I have forgotten Penderecki (and Stravinsky!)


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## shostako (Mar 5, 2012)

emiellucifuge said:


> There are many here who share your thoughts Shostako, you just haven't looked hard enough


Probably true. I was casually flipping through, and was kind of horrified when the list of 401 pieces to listen to were just littered with what reminded me of a "Best of..." compilation. And I was a little alarmed at the person who said he/she didn't see what was so great about Elgar's 2nd Symphony (no offense if this is you).

Things I listen to? I think I listed quite a few of them already -- Messiaen, Varese, Xenakis, and Boulez get lumped together in my mind. Berio, Ligeti and Stockhausen. Cage, Crumb and Carter. Lutoslawski and Penderecki. I think someone else mentioned most of these people?

But then there are others who get mentioned less often, I think. Like Reich/Glass/Adams -- all just brilliant. Or Kaija Saariaho and EP Salonen. Kurtag sometimes. The Rakowski piano etudes are fun, if not the most profound things ever written. Or random gems like this by Unsuk Chin:






And some totally guilty pleasures that may or may not be contemporary. Like William Schuman (though I HATE the New England Triptych), Walter Piston, Holst, Poulenc orchestral music, Walton, Milhaud, Schnittke, even Howard Hanson.

Anyway, enough from me.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

shostako said:


> And some totally guilty pleasures that may or may not be contemporary. Like *William Schuman* (though I HATE the New England Triptych), *Walter Piston*, Holst, Poulenc orchestral music, Walton, Milhaud, Schnittke, even Howard Hanson.


Hmm...nothing "guilty" about these pleasures, especially the bolded ones, which are great pleasures of mine that I am not guilty of.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I wasn't aware they would be considered "guilty pleasures" either.


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