# Random questions about Siegfried Idyll



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

It's not an opera, but I put this thread here anyway.

So Wikipedia says that performances of _Siegfried Idyll _were once faster than they are today. I thought the article told how long the piece originally used to last, but I don't see that information there. Maybe I'm imagining things or thinking of something else. But this is coming from Wikipedia. So I would like to know if this is actually true. My questions are -

1. Was the piece actually performed with faster tempi originally?

if so,

2. How fast was it originally?

3. Why did this change?

4. Are there recordings with faster tempi?


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

I think Cosima and Wagner wanted to have breakfast quick .

No, actually, Wikipedia gives a reference to that:

_[8] Brown, Jonathan (2012). Great Wagner Conductors - a listener's companion. O'Connor, A.C.T.: Parrot Press, pp. 769-770 (*a list of timings from Hans Richter, 14′ 30″, to Hans Knappertsbusch, 20′ 36″*) ISBN 978-0-9871556-0-3_

Hans Richter was part of the original ensemble who played at Wagner's private "premiere" of the piece.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> I think Cosima and Wagner wanted to have breakfast quick .
> 
> No, actually, Wikipedia gives a reference to that:
> 
> ...


But where did the 14'30" for Richter come from? And could his timing be considered typical for the time?


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> But where did the 14'30" for Richter come from? And could his timing be considered typical for the time?


I found an article analysing _Siegfried Idyll_ which had to be accessed first. Turns out that Wagner was concerned with the tempi as well but I don't have time to read it more thoroughly at the moment. I will do so later and let you know if I found anything interesting.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

So, there was a research conducted which found that the further back one goes, the faster the recordings of _Siegfried Idyll_ are (e.g. Weingartner conducted it in 15'44'', Toscanini in 16'05''). Siegfried Wagner himself conducted it in 16'19''. As the piece was regularly performed in the family home, also by Richard Wagner himself, it could be reasonable to assume that Siegfried had heard it enough times that he followed his father's own tempi and interpretation. Wagner wanted the piece to be played "sehr fließend". Nevertheless, it's reasonable to say that Wagner preferred brisk playing of the piece as the performances by the conductors of older generation, who had a close contact to Wagner or his circle, conducted it much faster than the contemporary conductors. Wagner's own tempi of his operas were also generally very fast.

I found the book which Wikipedia referenced: Richter's London performance of _Siegfried Idyll_ in 1880 lasted 14'30''.

As Wagner believed that tempo is inherent in the work itself, his omission of tempo markings aren't overly surprising. Largely seems to come down to different interpretations.


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## brahms4 (May 8, 2017)

Some faster modern,stereo recordings are Paray at 15'15'',Boult at 16'15",and Norrington at 16'18".


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