# New Forum Area



## Krummhorn

We have decided to alter our stance a little bit regarding political/religious discussions. Realizing that some discussions within Classical music are related to political or religious views and points, the staff, after a lengthy study session and meeting have decided to allow these discussions to occur on the open boards.

We have created a new forum area Politics and Religion in Classical Music specifically for the _Discussion of political, religious, and other potentially contentious topics in relation to classical music_ - please note the keywords "*in relation to classical music*".

The new forum area is in the Music & Repertoire area entiled "Politics and Religion related in classical music".

Down and out discussions about politics/religion unrelated to classical music will not be allowed. Period!

As always, the same rules apply about being _civil_ to one another, and this new forum has certain restrictions in place from the start ...

Here's the catch ...

Only members with *3 or less active *infraction points will be able to participate (create new threads, post in threads) in its discussions.

Those with *4 or more active* infraction points will not be allowed to post in that particular forum area. Most infractions are time limited and eventually expire ... once the active infraction points drop to 3 or lower, the member will once again have access and will be able to participate.

The Rules & Regulations have been revised.


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## Nereffid

For clarity: I assume this means don't _start_ a thread unrelated to classical music (perfectly reasonable), but what about thread drift? These discussions have a tendency to go from specifics to generalities, and their relevance to music recedes into the distance. Is this acceptable? To take a specific example, would the "Tchaikovsky wasn't gay" thread be stopped at the same point or allowed to continue further?

Anyway, thanks for creating the new area - I look forward to some interesting discussions...


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## aleazk

I don't agree in putting this subforum immediately after the main forum "Classical Music Discussion". I think that the other subforums until "The movie corner" are more important.


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## Mahlerian

aleazk said:


> I don't agree in putting this subforum immediately after the main forum "Classical Music Discussion". I think that the other subforums until "The movie corner" are more important.


I agree. I would preferably have it moved below the genre-specific sections, above The Movie Corner.


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## Frederik Magle

aleazk said:


> I don't agree in putting this subforum immediately after the main forum "Classical Music Discussion". I think that the other subforums until "The movie corner" are more important.





Mahlerian said:


> I agree. I would preferably have it moved below the genre-specific sections, above The Movie Corner.


Do not worry  The "Politics and Religion" forum will not stay where it is for long. It will instead likely be moved to a position right above the Movie forum (as you both suggest), or perhaps turned into a subforum of the Classical Music Discussion. The exact placement hasn't been decided yet, but it will be soon.

The reason for its current prominent placement is simply to "kick-start" it.


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## Frederik Magle

Nereffid said:


> For clarity: I assume this means don't _start_ a thread unrelated to classical music (perfectly reasonable), but what about thread drift? These discussions have a tendency to go from specifics to generalities, and their relevance to music recedes into the distance. Is this acceptable? To take a specific example, would the "Tchaikovsky wasn't gay" thread be stopped at the same point or allowed to continue further?
> 
> Anyway, thanks for creating the new area - I look forward to some interesting discussions...


I think it's impossible to set exact rules about "drifting", but as long as a thread doesn't drift _too_ far away, I don't see a problem - as long as there is a clear line from the original topic. If it drifts too much, we will probably post a message in the thread asking everyone to get back on track


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## JCarmel

I'm seeing my Doctor for 'thread drift' tomorrow morning.....


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## Cheyenne

This will escalate really quickly, won't it?


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## Schubussy

Oh dear. I like the people here, nothing can change that quicker than learning that they have horrible (to me at least) political views


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## Skilmarilion

I know it's silly to be bothered by it, but "classical music" isn't capitalised and yet all key words in the other sub-forums are!


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## Vesteralen

Schubussy said:


> Oh dear. I like the people here, nothing can change that quicker than learning that they have horrible (to me at least) political views


My solution is to stay out. No politics or religion for me. I spend a lot of effort just trying to avoid talk radio.


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## Frederik Magle

Skilmarilion said:


> I know it's silly to be bothered by it, but "classical music" isn't capitalised and yet all key words in the other sub-forums are!


Certainly can't have that!


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## KenOC

As somebody said (Harrison Ford?), "I have a bad feeling about this..."


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## Blancrocher

KenOC said:


> As somebody said (Harrison Ford?), "I have a bad feeling about this..."


I know what you mean--I myself was hoping for a forum area specifically devoted to Wagner and Nazism to keep discussion there focused. However, as always I appreciate the moderators' time and efforts with this wonderful site, and just hope they aren't creating too much more work for themselves!


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## SiegendesLicht

The first time I saw this other announcement about "Politics and Religion in Classical Music" I thought: "oh, just another shut-up-about-those-topics memo", but this is a pleasant surprise. Thank you guys! This is one more proof that we have a great team on here


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## SiegendesLicht

Blancrocher said:


> I know what you mean--I myself was hoping for a forum area specifically devoted to Wagner and Nazism to keep discussion there focused.


A forum area specifically devoted to the Meister sounds like a great idea to me


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## Taggart

SiegendesLicht said:


> This is one more proof that we have a great team on here


You mean you needed proof?


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## Taggart

Blancrocher said:


> I know what you mean--I myself was hoping for a forum area specifically devoted to Wagner and Nazism to keep discussion there focused. However, as always I appreciate the moderators' time and efforts with this wonderful site, and just hope they aren't creating too much more work for themselves!


I think they've done it very nicely with the ban on people who have been infracted. The clever thing is that if you are having a good well mannered and interesting discussion in the new forum, but lose your rag on a general forum, then your infraction will stop you continuing with that discussion - neat! 

Not only do we have good mods, we've got *clever *ones! :tiphat:


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## sospiro

Cheyenne said:


> This will escalate really quickly, won't it?


Hopefully!! :devil: ..............................


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## Skilmarilion

Frederik Magle said:


> Certainly can't have that!


Thanks!


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## StlukesguildOhio

I just came upon the latest brilliant development at TC used to keep us uppity ones in line. It seems that there's d a new forum to house all the contentious discussions of a political or religious nature. Members with 3 or more active infraction points are banned from posting on the threads there. 

Initially I thought, "Big deal! I rarely ever post on the threads dealing with politics or religion, anyway." 

But it seems that the management has a broad interpretation of what qualifies as political/religious debate. Threads on favorite hymns? So am I no longer permitted to discuss Bach's cantatas or Mozart's Requiem? 

The thread "Are Listeners Permitted To Dislike, And Express Such Dislike, Of Pieces Of Music?". 

I'm guessing this was placed under the political/religious sub-forum so as to prevent "inappropriate" or alternative views from being expressed. 

I can't say I am likely to stick around at a forum where any controversy or debate will result in censorship of the voices of certain members. I suspect there are others who feel the same way.

:tiphat:


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## StlukesguildOhio

I think they've done it very nicely with the ban on people who have been infracted. The clever thing is that if you are having a good well mannered and interesting discussion in the new forum, but lose your rag on a general forum, then your infraction will stop you continuing with that discussion - neat!

Yes, clever idea indeed. Voltaire would have loved it.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


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## KenOC

StlukesguildOhio said:


> "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."


This has been argued before, but a privately-run Internet site is not necessarily a forum for free speech. House rules are set by the owner of the house.


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## Frederik Magle

Let me make this clear: No one is trying to censor any particular opinions! The reason why the "Are Listeners Permitted To Dislike, And Express Such Dislike" was moved to the political forum was because it had turned _political_. We are, however, currently debating whether we should change practice in the future and leave the longer threads where they are, and instead ask people to stay on topic (off politics) - or outright close the thread - rather than moving it.

In any case, the restrictions of the Political forum has _nothing_ to do with censoring views, but instead it's an attempt at allowing political and religious discussions without turning the forum in to a flame fest, which such topics has a tendency to ignite.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> I just came upon the latest brilliant development at TC used to keep us uppity ones in line. It seems that there's d a new forum to house all the contentious discussions of a political or religious nature. Members with 3 or more active infraction points are banned from posting on the threads there.
> 
> Initially I thought, "Big deal! I rarely ever post on the threads dealing with politics or religion, anyway."
> 
> But it seems that the management has a broad interpretation of what qualifies as political/religious debate. Threads on favorite hymns? So am I no longer permitted to discuss Bach's cantatas or Mozart's Requiem?
> 
> The thread "Are Listeners Permitted To Dislike, And Express Such Dislike, Of Pieces Of Music?".
> 
> I'm guessing this was placed under the political/religious sub-forum so as to prevent "inappropriate" or alternative views from being expressed.
> 
> I can't say I am likely to stick around at a forum where any controversy or debate will result in censorship of the voices of certain members. I suspect there are others who feel the same way.
> 
> :tiphat:


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## Ukko

Taggart said:


> I think they've done it very nicely with the ban on people who have been infracted. The clever thing is that if you are having a good well mannered and interesting discussion in the new forum, but lose your rag on a general forum, then your infraction will stop you continuing with that discussion - neat!
> 
> Not only do we have good mods, we've got *clever *ones! :tiphat:


Excuse me while I clear my throat... hargh... OK; the 'have been "infracted"' thing isn't how it's set up; it's more than 3 _current_ infraction points. Veteran troublemakers like me - temporarily point-free - are not turned away, so the threat of disruption is present.


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## StlukesguildOhio

This has been argued before, but a privately-run Internet site is not necessarily a forum for free speech. House rules are set by the owner of the house.

And that is fully understood. Almost any online forum has rules with regard to profanity, name-calling, etc... This division between members who are permitted to voice opinions and those who are not is something altogether different.


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> Excuse me while I clear my throat... hargh... OK; the 'have been "infracted"' thing isn't how it's set up; it's more than 3 _current_ infraction points. Veteran troublemakers like me - temporarily point-free - are not turned away, so the threat of disruption is present.


I doubt you will deliberately disrupt us, Hilltroll72.  And I will forever clear my throat "hargh." That is simply ingenious.


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## StlukesguildOhio

In any case, the restrictions of the Political forum has nothing to do with censoring views, but instead it's an attempt at allowing political and religious discussions without turning the forum in to a flame fest, which such topics has a tendency to ignite.

And this applies to the thread on "favorite hymns" how? Surely the threads on sports, overrated albums, Wagner... and the endless polls (Mozart vs Haydn, Mozart vs Beethoven, Gesualdo vs Miley Cyrus) are likely to be more controversial?


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## mstar

I am at least glad that the new forum, though, is helping to prevent controversial arguments on the main forum. Even so, I personally feel that not many people will deliberately start a political or religious discussion - they tend to shift into those when straying off-topic. So it may just be ingeniously discouraging, in that way, all political or religious discussions in the entire forum! Nice job, Magle, nice job....  

I think that the sooner we move the new forum down to the lesser-important areas in the list. We have a pretty intelligent staff here at TC....


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## mamascarlatti

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I
> But it seems that the management has a broad interpretation of what qualifies as political/religious debate. Threads on favorite hymns? So am I no longer permitted to discuss Bach's cantatas or Mozart's Requiem?


Please note that "the management" did not place this thread in the new forum, the OP did. The forum was pretty new and I guess we were all feeling our way.

Anyway, as it relates more to classical music than religion, it's been moved to the Classical Music Discussion forum/


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## Frederik Magle

Just an update: there is now a consensus among the staff in general _not_ to move whole non-political threads turned political to the new forum in the future. We are still discussing what to do with then (splitting them up is one option), but that's another matter which the staff will decide on soon.

In any case, StlukesguildOhio, both your complaints have now been addressed, and in both instances we actually _agreed_ with your point! (see also mamascarlatti's reply regarding the hymnal thread above).

Regards,
Frederik


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## Guest

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Gesualdo vs Miley Cyrus


[email protected], did I miss this poll?? Let me get there quick!



Frederik Magle said:


> The reason why the "Are Listeners Permitted To Dislike, And Express Such Dislike" was moved to the political forum


It was? I didn't even notice - seamless work by the mods then.


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