# Are you misanthropic?



## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

I am, some of the time. I'd sincerely like to believe that people are generally good, and just make bad choices sometimes. But I can't accept that any more. The more I learn about human history and psychology, less respect I have for this species. People I've trusted and admired have revealed themselves to be hypocrites who abused their power in horrible ways. We are selfish, greedy, abusive, power-obsessed ********. We can't help but form hierarchies however egalitarian we think we are. Even when we treat people well it's for our own pride and gratification. I don't exclude myself from this. Of course I still care about people, after all no one chooses to be human. But I don't think the amount of pleasure in the world justifies the amount of pain, and I can only see things getting worse with the number of impending crises we face. I think the best solution is voluntary extinction, but I know that will never happen, and extinction will likely be a more drawn-out, painful process. Hopefully none of us will be around when it happens.

Sorry for the rant. I wonder if anyone can relate to those thoughts. Or if you strongly disagree and have a more sanguine perspective on humanity and its future it would be nice to hear.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

people are what they are. There's good and bad in each of us. Usually - but not always - cooperation and a willingness to compromise will better our relationships with each other. It's still best to steer clear of certain people with whom you don't think you can work in such a way as to not be cheated on as a matter of course


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Oh goodness, I would *not* want the world to be extinguished - so much beauty and so much love to be gone in a twinkling.

It *is *unbearable to think of the suffering of the poor and the victims of tyranny and disease.

I am not misanthropic - I like the human race and I love to hear about kindness, bravery, nobility and self-sacrifice, which people often show in a crisis. If I expected the worst, as the OP does, I would not be shocked, as I usually am, when a journalist reveals that yet another supposedly good person is in reality corrupt and uncaring.

On the other hand, I am rarely transported by idealistic fervour because I have a cynical inner voice telling me that it won't happen, because we all tend to be too lazy, self-centred and/or venal to carry the schemes through.

As deggial says, 'people are what they are'; which is *complex*. I can relate to the OP's thoughts, however, & I felt this way at least some of the time when I was younger. Maybe these days I'm just too old and tired to get worked up about it!


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Why should hierarchies not exist? I don't think of everyone as being "equal" in that sense. There's shirkers and layabouts, go-getters and head honchos. It's a big cake, people gonna eat the bits they like. We have to accept this creaturely aspect of humanity. Expecting us to shed our form and become angelic paragons is to actually not want to face reality.

As for your question, am I a misanthrope? No.

Now **** off! :devil:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

One could argue that we ARE in fact engaged in voluntary extinction, and that we are just too idiotic to realize it... 

As for me, I have gone from hating humans to loving them to virtually complete indifference.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I am a humanist, by inclination and intention. It's probably easier to maintain that attitude in semi-rural Vermont than in some other environments. There are a lot of decent people around here.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)




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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

- I am 100% misathrope... I just hate human race! - said John on the community forum - I look forward to sharing my misanthropic experiences with other people! Cheers!


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Simple answer no

Our prime purpose in this life is to help others, and if you can’t help them don’t hurt them.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I wish I loved the Human Race;
I wish I loved its silly face;
I wish I liked the way it walks;
I wish I liked the way it talks;
And when I'm introduced to one
I wish I thought What Jolly Fun!
-- Walter Raleigh


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)




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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Read *Lord of the Flies.* That is my argument now as well.

All this has been debated before. Summarized in the book.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)




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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes, I'm slightly misanthropic but fully aware of my diagnose!










/ptr


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## DrKilroy (Sep 29, 2012)

No.

Best regards, Dr


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Garlic said:


> ... But I don't think the amount of pleasure in the world justifies the amount of pain...


I tend to end up there as well. When the bad is so bad, what difference does any of the good do? But without that good, things would be even worse...

Even if we are all helplessly stuck on a speeding Earth going no place good really fast, we can still choose to be nice to the other passengers.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

TresPicos said:


> I tend to end up there as well. When the bad is so bad, what difference does any of the good do? But without that good, things would be even worse...
> 
> Even if we are all helplessly stuck on a speeding Earth going no place good really fast, we can still choose to be nice to the other passengers.


of course the good makes a difference. The good is the quiet resistance of humanity in the face of nihilism. Basically, life might be bloody difficult at times but to just throw one's hands up in defeat is to not live at all.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I don't think it's misanthropic to just think people are "inherently" evil. Misanthropy has to do with how you treat people, no matter your belief of their inward dispositions. You might think people are inherently good, but still treat them horribly because you feel no motivation to be kind to others for one reason or another.

As I've gotten older, the more evil and plain paltry I see this world. Everything is so temporary! I forget the joy of things after the moment is passed, things just don't last. Food, I never get a lasting joy from. Movies, Books, they leave lasting impressions, but something is lost after the first time it has been experienced, and will never return again. Music, that is only a bit longer since I hold the melodies in my heart for a longer time. But even memories of images and scenes will fade away too with time, and so good things are continually being forgotten. And why can't one joyful moment be enough to improve our moods the rest of our lives? That's why we keep having to reapply joyful moments to ourselves every day, because one is never enough and pain immediately drives out the joy every day. Yes, not to mention the actual _horrid _things that happen in this world! Life can be unbearable! For this reason, I do not hate humanity but in fact have great pity and love for it. We all experience the Human Condition together. We live in a broken world, that's the plain truth.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

No, sir.

..................................


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

No, I love people!

At least, I love them as long as they don't bother me when I want to not be bothered...


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

I can break correspondences and friendships quite easily. I don't usually mind unless you are someone who I need to know for education, etc., or unless you are very special to my heart....


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I don't know. What does it mean?


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

deggial said:


> of course the good makes a difference. The good is the quiet resistance of humanity in the face of nihilism.





TresPicos said:


> When the bad is so bad, what difference does any of the good do? But without that good, things would be even worse...





Ingenue said:


> Oh goodness, I would *not* want the world to be extinguished - so much beauty and so much love to be gone in a twinkling.
> 
> It *is *unbearable to think of the suffering of the poor and the victims of tyranny and disease.


Some interesting thoughts emerging assumptions about the balance between the 'good' and the 'evil' that we encounter, expect, dread, show...with some implied calculation about whether there is a balance.

Suppose we were to take the crudest calculation of the _effect _of good and evil, it would seem that 'good' has the upper hand, simply because our global population is growing, despite all the death and destruction.

However, it's one's personal experience that matters in judging where the balance lies. I don't think it's reasonable to generalise about the world 'out there' (the past world and the present) - which we encounter only through someone else's mis/philanthropic perspective. I'm fortunate in that my experience of life has been, on balance, positive, and I hope that others' experience of me has been the same; though I know I have been unkind, and said and done things that I shouldn't and regret - and will continue to do so - I know I've made people happy (at least my wife has stayed with me for long enough to draw that conclusion, and my sons still speak to me) and some of the children I've taught have learned well...

The world may be going to hell in a handcart, but I'd say there are two handcarts; one is going the other way, and it's up to you which one you ride in.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> [...]
> The world may be going to hell in a handcart, but I'd say there are two handcarts; one is going the other way, and it's up to you which one you ride in.


I think there is only one handcart for the world. I also think that I can - and do - have an infinitesimal but positive influence on its progress.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Ukko said:


> I think there is only one handcart for the world. I also think that I can - and do - have an infinitesimal but positive influence on its progress.


This seems a reasonable point of view. History is the result of innumerable acts and even the positive ones often go unrecognised till later...
(Hey, is that you?  )

Edit (response to post #27 below): Thanks: I just googled it. Fab idea!


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I don't think it's misanthropic to just think people are "inherently" evil. Misanthropy has to do with how you treat people, no matter your belief of their inward dispositions. You might think people are inherently good, but still treat them horribly because you feel no motivation to be kind to others for one reason or another.
> 
> As I've gotten older, the more evil and plain paltry I see this world. Everything is so temporary! I forget the joy of things after the moment is passed, things just don't last. Food, I never get a lasting joy from. Movies, Books, they leave lasting impressions, but something is lost after the first time it has been experienced, and will never return again. Music, that is only a bit longer since I hold the melodies in my heart for a longer time. But even memories of images and scenes will fade away too with time, and so good things are continually being forgotten. And why can't one joyful moment be enough to improve our moods the rest of our lives? That's why we keep having to reapply joyful moments to ourselves every day, because one is never enough and pain immediately drives out the joy every day. Yes, not to mention the actual _horrid _things that happen in this world! Life can be unbearable! For this reason, I do not hate humanity but in fact have great pity and love for it. We all experience the Human Condition together. We live in a broken world, that's the plain truth.


"_He who desires a lifetime of happiness with a beautiful woman desires to enjoy the taste of wine by keeping his mouth always full of it_." :lol: From Shaw's Maxims for Revolutonists.

And more, from Hazlitt:

"_The question whether life is accompanied with a greater quantity of pleasure or pain, may be fairly set aside as frivolous, and of no practical utility; for our attachment to life depends on our interest in it, and it cannot be denied that we have more interest in this moving busy scene, agitated with a thousand hopes and fears, and checkered with every diversity of joy and sorrow, than in a dreary blank._"

I'd respond myself, but others are so much better at it.. Or, like Proust said, "...one must never miss an opportunity of quoting things by others which are always more interesting than those one thinks up oneself." :lol:

Anyhow, I'm not misanthropic.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Ingenue said:


> This seems a reasonable point of view. History is the result of innumerable acts and even the positive ones often go unrecognised till later...
> (Hey, is that you?  )


Yep; I am no longer a troll-in-name-only, but an ukko for sure.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> This seems a reasonable point of view. History is the result of innumerable acts and even the positive ones often go unrecognised till later...
> (Hey, is that you?  )


Say nothing...he probably thinks we don't know it's him.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

moody said:


> Say nothing...he probably thinks we don't know it's him.


Who probably thinks what about whom?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Who probably thinks what about whom?


Oh.... *you* know! 

Talking about 'misanthropes', this is an amazing thread - for cheering us all up!


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> Oh.... *you* know!


Well, I know who he was, but not what he is now...

*Ukko*, sometimes also Äijä or Äijö (Finnish: male grandparent, old man, also thunder), parallel in Estonian mythology to Uku, is the god of the sky, weather,...

...or is he just...

Trendy golf clothing for fashion conscious men??


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Ukko said:


> Yep; I am no longer a troll-in-name-only, but an ukko for sure.


Who is? This ukko is going to be the Finnish of us,the way it thunders on. Or maybe it's an acronym for British (UK) knockout (KO) or should that be British stunner? 

(I included the wiki link)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

MacLeod said:


> Well, I know who he was, but not what he is now...
> 
> *Ukko*, sometimes also Äijä or Äijö (Finnish: male grandparent, old man, also thunder), parallel in Estonian mythology to Uku, is the god of the sky, weather,...
> 
> ...


Try this one:

http://howtosay.org/en_fi/Geezer


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Ukko said:


> Try this one:
> 
> http://howtosay.org/en_fi/Geezer


Definitely a Finnish colloquialism.  I thought it was you because you had the same avatar picture.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Ukko, you are a runaway success - brilliant marketing!


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