# I find it hilarious that..



## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Schoenberg's thread has been locked!

The most controvercial artist of all time. Schoenberg, to you - I tip my hat.

That is all.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Yeah it was funny.

And we all know that it could be carried on here if people are so inclined.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

It is "temporarily closed" ... 

And not because it is about Schoenberg ... rather for the off topic content that seems to have changed the discussion to other things as opposed to the composer himself. 

While we realize that little variants of off topic postings will occur within any discussion, the variants in that particular thread are a bit excessive, and are not contributing to the thread topic anymore. 

The thread will re-open ... in a day or two perhaps.


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

Herzeleide said:


> And we all know that it could be carried on here if people are so inclined.


Yeah, but you guys will most likely cause a _buffer overrun_ on the moderator and he will close this thread too.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm not criticising your decision, I just think it's flabbergasting that someone dead for more than fifty years can still have such a profound effect on the public imagination.

An undeniable testament to his greatness.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Schoenberg's thread has been locked!
> 
> The most controvercial artist of all time. Schoenberg, to you - I tip my hat.
> 
> That is all.


Schoenberg wasn't controversial. People are the ones that create controversy. I'm sure in Schoenberg's mind, he was just trying to think outside of the box and do something different, unfortunately for him, there weren't that many people that actually liked what he was doing.

Whether or not we like or dislike his music isn't the point, he ushered in a whole new way of looking at not just classical, but music in general.

I've already made my feelings quite clear about him, so that's as far as I'll go.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> An undeniable testament to his greatness.


A composer's "greatness" is merely subjective to the person listening and how they are received by the classical community as a whole. All of the classical fans I know think there's nothing great about him. Yes, he developed a rather unconventional way of organizing notes, but so did Hindemith and George Russell, so I find that argument rather invalid since there are plenty of composers and theorists who developed new ways of writing music. This doesn't make someone's music great just because it's "different."


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Leave it to Bach to start yet another thread that does nothing but create animosity amongst people.

Bach, all you seem to do is spew venom everywhere you go. You're just a little kid. Grow up.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I mean this in the kindest and least inflammatory way possible but, I think it would be a good idea if you gave your own posts a thorough read before laying accusations on others. I don't know how old you are, but you don't articulate yourself terribly well - constant usage of personal attack and subjectivist gobbledegook in your largely nonexistent arguments. As much as I wish to avoid any form of aggression, your petty insults are rather tiresome so you force me to make some form of comment. Sorry. 

Anyway, enough silliness JTech my man - we don't know each other and never will. Let's cut the hypocritical rubbish and get on with debating music like gentlemen.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I think I'm going to let that little post speak for itself, sonny jim.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Anyway, enough silliness JTech my man - we don't know each other and never will. Let's cut the hypocritical rubbish and get on with debating music like gentlemen.


I'm glad we don't know each other, because I bet in person you would never talk to anyone the way you talk on here with that condescending attitude you project, because chances are if you did talk to somebody the way you do on here, somebody would mop the floor with you...literally. Hope you like Mop-N-Glo with your fries.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

How ironic that locking the Schoenberg thread has actually compounded the problem of which locking the thread was meant to effect a discontinuation.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

By the way, Bach go read what I posted to you in the Ravel thread. Grow up little man.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> How ironic that locking the Schoenberg thread has actually compounded the problem of which locking the thread was meant to effect a discontinuation.


Yeah, leave it to Bach to start another thread about the worst composer of all time.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> I'm glad we don't know each other, because I bet in person you would never talk to anyone the way you talk on here with that condescending attitude you project, because chances are if you did talk to somebody the way you do on here, somebody would mop the floor with you...literally. Hope you like Mop-N-Glo with your fries.


Oh god, I'm terrible - really awful. Quite an abrasive character.

169th post - I luv sex!


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Oh god, I'm terrible - really awful. Quite an abrasive character.
> 
> 169th post - I luv sex!


Bach, you mentioned in a post somewhere that you like jazz. I'm curious what jazz musicians do you like?


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

John Coltrane, Oscar Peterson, Charlie Parker, Wynton Marsalis, Clifford Brown, Count Basie, Laurence Cottle (little known bassist - amazing though), Pat Metheny, Michael Brecker, Herbie Hancock, The Brecker Brothers in general are sick. Gershwin's songs (if you want to classify them as Jazz standards). I also have a soft spot for Django Reinhardt (but only in a silly way)

I'm into a lot of hard bebop and Jazz fusion big band stuff. Generally fused with funk and rock.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> John Coltrane, Oscar Peterson, Charlie Parker, Wynton Marsalis, Clifford Brown, Count Basie, Laurence Cottle (little known bassist - amazing though), Pat Metheny, Michael Brecker, Herbie Hancock, The Brecker Brothers in general are sick. Gershwin's songs (if you want to classify them as Jazz standards). I also have a soft spot for Django Reinhardt (but only in a silly way)


Good list. Here is my list:

Thelonious Monk, Ben Webster, Bill Evans, Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Miles Davis, Bill Frisell, Tomasz Stanko, Dizzy Gillespie, Tomasz Stanko, Sonny Clark, Enrico Rava, Paul Desmond, Duke Ellington, Paul Motian, John Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Zoot Sims, Clark Terry, McCoy Tyner, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Hancock, Sonny Rolllins, Dave Holland, Max Roach, Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Nicholas Payton, Art Blakey, Cannonball Adderley, Modern Jazz Quartet, Dave Brubeck, Art Pepper, Blue Mitchell, Stefon Harris, Ron Carter, Benny Carter, Joe Locke, Paolo Fresu, Hampton Hawes, Ed Bickert, Rob McConnell, David "Fathead" Newman, Bud Powell, Eliane Elias, John Abercrombie, Chet Baker, Gigi Gryce, Nguyen Le, Horace Silver, Marian McPartland, Tommy Flanagan, Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Michel Petrucciani, Maria Schneider, Bob Brookmeyer, Harold Land, Wes Montgomery, Shirley Horn, Diana Krall, Cassandra Wilson, Fred Hersch, Steve Nelson, Woody Herman, Jim Hall, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, Jan Garbarek, Pat Metheny, Shelly Manne, Kenny Dorham, Jimmy Heath, Johnny Griffin, Stan Kenton, Amina Figarova, Charles Lloyd, Frank Wess, John Hicks, Woody Shaw, Kenny Wheeler, Renee Rosnes, this list could go on forever...


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Oh god yeah, there are lots of names in there that I could have added to my own rather stunted list.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

You really must looks into the Brecker brothers if you haven't already - Michael Brecker's solo works or their joint albums. I recommend Heavy Metal Bebop


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> You really must looks into the Brecker brothers if you haven't already - Michael Brecker's solo works or their joint albums. I recommend Heavy Metal Bebop


I'm not a Brecker fan, sorry. I never have been able to get into him, BUT Randy Brecker is a good trumpeter and Brecker was a good saxophonist, but I find their own solo work to be not to my liking.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach, you will find that there aren't a lot of people knowledgeable about jazz quite to the extent I am.  I don't mean to sound egotistical, but it's true and I have talked to A LOT of jazz people through the years.

Especially considering that it was the first music that I feel head over heels in love with, I have over 5,000 jazz recordings in my music collection.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

The Ad homs will stop ... *there will be no further warnings ... *
Controversial discussions ARE allowed and encouraged on this forum ... but when personal attacks against other members start taking place, that's where we draw the line.

Starting another thread on this same subject is not necessary ... as stated, the original thread will re-open ... it just won't be today as I don't have the time to deal with it right now. Contrary to popular belief, the mods do have lives outside this forum ... we can't possibly be here 24/7, nor should we expected to be.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Jazz has always been my secondary love really - although I recently composed a rather convincing big band tune in the Brecker sort of tradition, so I'm learning all the time about Jazz. And it must be said, I do love to hear jazz influence in classical compositions too.

Interestingly I have a very worrying weakness for Hip Hop.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach, I'm glad you're influenced by jazz, because as a composer myself, jazz pretty much stays in my head 24/7.

Classical is my second love, but I'm learning to love them both equally.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I never compose without my best friend syncopation (as stolen from my buddies over in the J department) - a good example is the last movement of the string quartet that I've posted on this very website: http://www.talkclassical.com/4175-string-quartet-no-2-a.html

Only if you're interested, of course! I'd be very interested to hear something you've written..


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I stayed away from the Schoenberg thread precisely because I knew it might stir me up. But at the end of the day, it's all just sounds. No one dies.

I do respect Schoenberg a lot for thinking so far outside the box and I think I have found a new way to express my admiration:

jh54mn crfo ??? sd ew443 SDm ddoma / jh56nm crff ??? sd( with a )sdrgv SDw la la la!


[Edit: joking aside - I have heard his pre-serialism music and it is quite nice. So I cannot dismiss him out of hand - merely out of self preservation.]


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm not surprised that the Schoenberg thread has been locked. I mean, this website has become something like a virtual fishbowl, with people attacking eachother over trivial things. I think people should learn to express their opinion without badgering, attacking and bullying others. That would improve the quality of experience we can all get out of this website. People should share their knowledge and opinions, not use them like a sledgehammer to bang others over the head with. It just doesn't make sense, and it's of no use to anybody for this to happen. R - E - S - P - E - C - T !


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> I'm not criticising your decision, I just think it's flabbergasting that someone dead for more than fifty years can still have such a profound effect on the public imagination.
> 
> An undeniable testament to his greatness.


What? It says he is controversial, that's all. He is great, but that has nothing to do with it. Mozart is great, but he isn't controversial.....
@YsayeOp.27#6, do you feel clever now or something? The irony of your statement is baffling.



> Anyway, enough silliness JTech my man - we don't know each other and never will. Let's cut the hypocritical rubbish and get on with debating music like gentlemen.


Yes please do, all I get is uncalled for personal attacks from people, just because I defend and HAVE opinions. Quite sad really.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Yagan Kiely said:


> What? It says he is controversial, that's all. He is great, but that has nothing to do with it. Mozart is great, but he isn't controversial.....
> @YsayeOp.27#6, do you feel clever now or something? The irony of your statement is baffling.
> 
> Yes please do, all I get is uncalled for personal attacks from people, just because I defend and HAVE opinions. Quite sad really.


Yeah, but yet we never hear anything positive from you Yagan. After awhile, when all you do is come back with a defense or whatever. It becomes tiresome. How about telling us what composers you like and really respect? That might be a good start.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

I have to say that I think this is a very productive thread. People who would normally be agressive and stubborn, resorting to personal comments when cornered are actually ironing out their differences here. It's like a 'how to' thread. I had a run in with Yagan recently which we resolved in personal messages so I'm not talking from a pulpit here. I would strongly advise the moderators to leave this thread open for just this reason.
FC


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

I too received a message from Kiely. Too desperate to respond I presume.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> I agree with JTech. And... the locked thread wasn't closed for holding a heated discussion on Schönberg's greatness, but because it started to show Yagan's littleness. A boy who, if not stopped, would freely distribute rants, forever.


Indeed! In the Schoenberg thread he:


Argued against the pro-Schoenbergians


Argued against the anti-Schoenbergians.

The end result being that he had no coherent or consistent position to take on anything, and seemed rather to simply revel in the amount of disagreement taking place.


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

The point is not the non-existence of (musical) competences of any of you, it is the way how some people discuss. There is indeed no need to start any verbal harassment. It is an innocent, immature behaviour, which will not be tolerated. Please act like human beings with well educated manners and respond in an on-topic, polite way. Thank you!


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> Indeed! In the Schoenberg thread he:
> 
> 
> Argued against the pro-Schoenbergians
> ...


Just because my opinion on the matter was a sort of middle ground between the two extreme camps, that doesn't mean I'm inconsistent in my position. What you are setting up is a false dichotomy.



> I too received a message from Kiely. Too desperate to respond I presume.


I do sleep. And I have got back to you know. Why did you even bring this up?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Bach said:


> I'm not criticising your decision, I just think it's flabbergasting that someone dead for more than fifty years can still have such a profound effect on the public imagination.
> 
> An undeniable testament to his greatness.


Dear Bach, I imagine that it would be to your chagrin that this situation has not changed five years later still.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

Bach said:


> I'm not criticising your decision, *I just think it's flabbergasting that someone dead for more than fifty years can still have such a profound effect on the public* imagination.
> 
> An undeniable testament to his greatness.


Isaac Newton, anyone?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

guy said:


> Isaac Newton, anyone?


Aristotle?


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