# Which quartets for late Beethoven?



## KenOC

Rather than put up a poll, I'll just ask: Which string quartet (ensemble) do you prefer for Beethoven's late works? Why? Any you'd avoid?


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## Manxfeeder

I like the first Lindsay recording of the C# minor and the Vegh for the Bb because they are so spiritual, though the later Lindsay recordings have better intonation. I also think the Fitzwilliam plays the Grosse Fugue at the proper tempo. I have the Takacs cycle and need to relisten to it before I'd give it full approval, but I liked it the last time I went through it.


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## Ukko

Fortunately there is more than one right way; there's a 'spectrum'. near one (mellow-dramatic) end is the Vermeer. Their Op. 132 draws sentiment about as far as it will go. Maybe the GF is too soft-edged, but it's interesting.

The Petersen play everything well, including late Beethoven.


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## joen_cph

Am not an expert in this field, but I like the Yale Quartet, the Hungarian Quartet (the first I heard) and some parts of the Hagen Quartet recordings.
The old Borodin Quartet recordings should be good too.


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## Guest

I have two recordings of the late quartets - the first one is by the Emerson String Quartet, the second is by the Takacs Quartet. Hands down, I love the Takacs recording, and highly recommend it. Actually, their recordings of the entire cycle are excellent. I am also fond of their recordings of Schubert's and Brahms' quartets.


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## kskdn

Emerson has always been my favorite. I've been listening to the Elias quartet recently after being exposed to them on Xuefei Yang's new Bach CD, and they've been playing my favorite (op130 in Bb) and blogging about the experience, but I don't know if they have released (or will) a recording of it. I did enjoy their youtube video explaining some of the peculiarities of op130, so I'd like to see them record it some day.


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## Ukko

Preference for the playing of the Emerson quartet reveals a personality trait, I'm pretty sure. Listen to their interpretation of the Schubert quintet, for instance. Can't get a handle on what that personality trait is though. CPA overflow?


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## millionrainbows

Hilltroll72 said:


> Preference for the playing of the Emerson quartet reveals a personality trait, I'm pretty sure. Listen to their interpretation of the Schubert quintet, for instance. Can't get a handle on what that personality trait is though. CPA overflow?


Preference for the playing of the Takacs quartet also reveals a personality trait, I'm pretty sure: some sort of gypsy thing. I've always liked the Guarneri, except on national holidays, when I listen to the Emerson, out of a sense of patriotism.
The Quartet in F, op. 135. I don't know why, except for those b9 dominant "stabs."


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## kskdn

Of the only other emerson enthusiast I know well, my college piano teacher, I'd say we're both soft-spoken, shaved-head cycling enthusiasts, but he's a classical player who has a big love of pop music while I'm a classical player who came from a pop background and can't get away from it (pop) fast enough...


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## jurianbai

these are the line up for my Beethoven quartet set. The Vermeer I second that one, is my favorite for their late quartet. Especially their no.15 in Am, is the best memorable rendering for me. The Alban Berg some say is technical but I don't see much problem with that and enjoy their late quartet as well.

the Vermeer








http://amzn.to/10QueWw

Borodin string quartet








http://amzn.to/Qof73E

Julliard string quartet








http://amzn.to/116QFGc

Alban Berg string quartet








http://amzn.to/SorXP6


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## Ukko

/\ I haven't heard the Borodin in those, but the others are fine (assuming that the Julliard isn't too recent). The ABQ plays with very tight ensemble, which maybe results in a diagnosis of 'technical'.


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## Head_case

Had around 6 different versions of the late quartets. They are well serviced and there is no shortage of great interpretations.

One of the world's most outstanding quartets have the whole set on release:










The effortlessness of their playing elevates the music into the metaphysical sphere beyond listening. Their approach is opulent and incisive. Harder yet not to slink back in awe at the craftsmanship of their work, when you listen to the sheer consistency across the complete string quartet cycle (as much as 'Late Quartets' are famed and elevated, like Schubert's Late Quartets or Beethoven's, it's not that the early ones were humdingers..)










Well I don't actually own this set (I wish....but not for several hundred $$$). The 1970's CD transfer recording is the one most of us come to know their masterpieces through. When listeners opine music as 'spiritual', it is that transcendance of the mirror gaze which the artistry of the Végh Quartet casts out as a fish net, to draw us into gaze at what is spiritual within. Their artistry does not obscure this dimension of the music; they become transparent vessels to convey the very music to the listener. This is my favourite cycle recording.

This rather unusual presentation is the one I'm hankering for: I still have the vinyl LPs before they were transferred:










The Vlach Quartet recordings are striking for the graceful cadence in which Beethoven's string quartets are conveyed. Over the years, this version is the one I warm to. The recording ...is indeed warm too.

Not so for the Emerson Quartet I opine lol. Their technical wizardry and rather breathless approach leaves me lamenting the passing of the Végh Quartet and the Quartetto Italiano, and indeed the Vlach Quartet. It's not that they're short of excellent: maybe they are just outdone by other interpreters of Beethoven, who do not rely on the excessive energy of their approach or the clinical dryness of their recordings compared to the Vlach Quartet. Their approach is very well suited for spreading Beethoven Quartets, although frankly, I find it as tiresome as these guys:










Admittedly I bought the set because it was very cheap and was curious to listen to another version after years being fed on the old-fashioned readings. Whaddya know. I is sick of revisionist string quartets. Bring back the old-fashioned gracefully tempered warm meditative spirit of the string quartet playing of the past 40 years


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## Head_case

Hilltroll72 said:


> /\ I haven't heard the Borodin in those, but the others are fine (assuming that the Julliard isn't too recent). The ABQ plays with very tight ensemble, which maybe results in a diagnosis of 'technical'.


That pretty much sums up what I think of the two quartet ensemble readings too.

The Borodin Quartet's reading is somewhat lacking; even my favourite Taneyev Quartet readings are rather strangely left of the field. The Harp Quartet reading is just so not in there. One of my less appreciative moments of the Taneyev Quartet. Maybe Soviets just can't read Beethoven?


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> Preference for the playing of the Takacs quartet also reveals a personality trait, I'm pretty sure: some sort of gypsy thing. I've always liked the Guarneri, except on national holidays, when I listen to the Emerson, out of a sense of patriotism.
> The Quartet in F, op. 135. I don't know why, except for those b9 dominant "stabs."


Wow, I have been described in numerous ways, but as a gypsy? That is a first.:lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I love ABQ.


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## Guest

I have some recordings by ABQ - some of Brahms' quartets, which I don't particularly care for, but their recording of Schubert's quintet with Schiff is my favorite (over the Emersons with Rostropovich).

I have heard criticisms of the Takacs Quartet in the past, but have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed their recordings, especially those on the Hyperion label, but also including their Beethoven Quartet cycle on Decca.


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## Ukko

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I love ABQ.


Have you heard their recording of the Schubert Quintet in C? _Very_ strong emotional effect, without a hint of warmth.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Hilltroll72 said:


> Have you heard their recording of the Schubert Quintet in C? _Very_ strong emotional effect, without a hint of warmth.


I think I have but it was a while ago.


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## Manxfeeder

millionrainbows said:


> Preference for the playing of the Takacs quartet also reveals a personality trait, I'm pretty sure: some sort of gypsy thing. I've always liked the Guarneri, except on national holidays, when I listen to the Emerson, out of a sense of patriotism.


I actually knew some gypsies; maybe that rubbed off.  I hadn't paid much attention the Guarineris until you brought it up a few weeks ago, but they are very good also.


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## KenOC

BTW the Takacs Quartet has been resident in Boulder, Colorado for 30 years...


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## Vaneyes

*Which quartets for late Beethoven?

*I like Takacs' finesse for the first half of LvB SQs, and ESQ's muscle for the latter half. So, the answer here is...ESQ.


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## millionrainbows

I like BBQ too, with sauce and a slice of onion. But seriously, folks, I have the Takacs, and two Guarneris (RCA analog and digital Philips), and Yale Quartet on Vanguard, and the Budapest 1960's Sony remasters (and Budapest from the 1930s), also those Budapest Live at the Library of Congress (Bridge).

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## Guest

I am now even more of a gypsy - I just bought the Takacs Quartet's new recording of Schubert's string Quintet with Kirshbaum.


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## Herjo

I have the first Lindsays cycle which I listend to quite a lot; I think it's magical. Every other version I've heard seems to be inferior to this......


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## Ukko

Herjo said:


> I have the first Lindsays cycle which I listend to quite a lot; I think it's magical. Every other version I've heard seems to be inferior to this......


Thanks _Herjo_, you have rejuvenated the power of "It takes all kinds."


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## Quartetfore

The Emerson, the Alban Berg for Op127 and 135, and the Quartet Italliano. All are different and its interesting to hear how the approach the works. The Quartetto Italiano seem to play the music a bit slower than the Emerson and the Alban Berg.


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## Guest

This thread has prompted me to listen to these works again - from the Takacs Quartet. Still loving it. I am not enough of a musicologist to discuss the various pros and cons of different groups - just what works for me. And they do. I am also going through my entire collection of recordings from this ensemble, including their recording of Schubert's Death and the Maiden quartet, which is one of my favorites.

Anyways, I have finished the early quartets and the middle ones (Harp and the 3 Razumovsky's), and loving them all. Add to all of that a sign from above that I am on the right track - this morning driving into work, the 6th Quartet, performed by the Takacs Quartet, was playing on my Sirius satellite radio, on the Symphony Hall channel. It was meant to be!


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## millionrainbows

Quartetfore said:


> The Emerson, the Alban Berg for Op127 and 135, and the Quartet Italliano. All are different and its interesting to hear how the approach the works. The Quartetto Italiano seem to play the music a bit slower than the Emerson and the Alban Berg.


I haven't heard the Quartetto Italiano on Beethoven; I must look into this...


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## Ramako

I really want to listen to all the Beethoven quartets again now...


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## Guest

Do it! I am very much enjoying the 14th. The late ones, in particular, are very rich. I love hearing the progression from the early to the late. And it was the Razumovsky and Harp quartets that first turned me onto the string quartet genre.


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## Head_case

Quartetfore said:


> The Emerson, the Alban Berg for Op127 and 135, and the Quartet Italliano. All are different and its interesting to hear how the approach the works. The Quartetto Italiano seem to play the music a bit slower than the Emerson and the Alban Berg.


Yes ...that's right. Just like the old-fashioned playing of the Vlach Quartet and even the Végh Quartet. These earlier quartet ensembles understood the interpretation of 'majesty' as a string ensemble, delivering majestic sweeping textures to the late Beethoven quartets within the intimate play of the four instruments.


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## Quartetfore

Rainbows, Just about a month ago, I found the Takacs recording of the Schubert #15 at a local library. Its the older Decca recording, but sounds great. I "burned" it to a Cd, and had my self a very, very fine performance


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## millionrainbows

Quartetfore said:


> Rainbows, Just about a month ago, I found the Takacs recording of the Schubert #15 at a local library. Its the older Decca recording, but sounds great. I "burned" it to a Cd, and had my self a very, very fine performance


Huh! I didn't know there was an older Decca version.


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## millionrainbows

What's the best one?


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## Quartetfore

Rainbow, I think that it was made when they recorded for Decca, that is before they started with Hyperion. There was a change in personal around that time.
QF.


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## Guest

I enjoy the Tokyo Quartet's new SACD recording:










as well as the Prazak Quartet:










(I don't think the Late Quartets are available separately as a group.)


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## Quartetfore

millionrainbows said:


> What's the best one?


They sound just about the same, though I think the Hyperion might have a bit better sound.


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## millionrainbows

I'm listening to the Op. 127 in Eb. It's so resonant and majestic. Also, there's a passage in there around measure 130 which is supposedly a test of open-tuning, using open strings. It tests the open-fifths, which should be adjusted in order to sound good. Are there any versions (like the Veigh) which might use different tunings, where this would be apparent? Hmmm...


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## Quartetfore

I can`t answer the question, but this is one of my very favorite Beethoven Quartets.


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## davinci

I have the Tokyo String Quartet box set for Beethoven's middle and late quartets. I bought them due to the fact that the Japanese are gaga over Ludwig. Is anyone familiar with these performances and how do they rate with with the big names like Emerson and Berg?


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## KenOC

davinci said:


> I have the Tokyo String Quartet box set for Beethoven's middle and late quartets. I bought them due to the fact that the Japanese are gaga over Ludwig. Is anyone familiar with these performances and how do they rate with with the big names like Emerson and Berg?


The Tokyo's have two complete sets. Both are listed in this ranking:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R3T5Y25MLG0WZW/ref=cm_pdp_sylt_title_1

The older RCA set, then very costly, has since been reissued in a much cheaper bargain box:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...8145&sr=1-1&keywords=beethoven+quartets+tokyo

In general, IMO they're up there with the best.


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> The Tokyo's have two complete sets. Both are listed in this ranking:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R3T5Y25MLG0WZW/ref=cm_pdp_sylt_title_1
> 
> The older RCA set, then very costly, has since been reissued in a much cheaper bargain box:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...8145&sr=1-1&keywords=beethoven+quartets+tokyo
> 
> In general, IMO they're up there with the best.


The Tokyo, in the older composition shown in the photo (2nd link), is very good, though their playing is idiosyncratic - as was the case with many fine sqs from that era. You should hear their Haydn Op. 50s, if you haven't yet.


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## Quartetfore

I have the Middle Quartet set (new) and the sound of the group is as beautiful as ever. I have heard them in concert many times, and they always provide a very fine experience. Here in New York City, they play a series every year at the "92 Second Street Y" all ways sell out. Its sad that they are disbanding after this season.


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## Guest

KenOC said:


> The Tokyo's have two complete sets. Both are listed in this ranking:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R3T5Y25MLG0WZW/ref=cm_pdp_sylt_title_1
> 
> The older RCA set, then very costly, has since been reissued in a much cheaper bargain box:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...8145&sr=1-1&keywords=beethoven+quartets+tokyo
> 
> In general, IMO they're up there with the best.


I don't think they are "laid back" as stated in that ranking--I'd use that phrase for the Quartetto Italiano.


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## KenOC

Kontrapunctus said:


> I don't think they are "laid back" as stated in that ranking--I'd use that phrase for the Quartetto Italiano.


I don't think so either. And I'd agree with the second half of your comment as well.


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## Ukko

^^ That ranking is highly suspect anyway. The Cleveland, Kodály, Melos and Lindsay sqs are all less than excellent ensembles.


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## KenOC

Hilltroll72 said:


> ^^ That ranking is highly suspect anyway. The Cleveland, Kodály, Melos and Lindsay sqs are all less than excellent ensembles.


A totally objective view, of course!


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> A totally objective view, of course!


More like a strongly held opinion, which I am happy to share. Among the degrees of IMO it is an *IMO*.


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## davinci

KenOC said:


> The Tokyo's have two complete sets. Both are listed in this ranking:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R3T5Y25MLG0WZW/ref=cm_pdp_sylt_title_1
> 
> The older RCA set, then very costly, has since been reissued in a much cheaper bargain box:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Com...8145&sr=1-1&keywords=beethoven+quartets+tokyo
> 
> In general, IMO they're up there with the best.


Thanks for the links, KenOC. As others have said, I don't find their playing "laid-back," just the opposite; very moving, it's not warm and smooth, it sounds very Beethoven "as written." IMO.


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## Head_case

Can't say that I've found any of the modern versions as warm as the Végh Quartet or the Vlach Quartet - have you tried the earlier Beethoven Quartet & Budapest Quartet recordings? Their tunings will be less stressy than the A=440Hz we are now used to. 

The Végh Quartet set which I rely on is from 1973 by Valois. I presume it is one of their legendary recordings from the Chaux des Fonds, however there is liner notes detailing this in the extensive vinyl LP booklet. Just listening to the string quartet no. XVI in F major - the warmth is incredible - there is something about the really natural ambience of the recording coupled with the very subtle inflexions of bowing which seems to bring the music in and out like the ebbing of a tide with the gentle crescendo and diminuendo along the movement. 

Either that or my turntable belt is knackered lol


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## davinci

Head_case said:


> Can't say that I've found any of the modern versions as warm as the Végh Quartet or the Vlach Quartet - have you tried the earlier Beethoven Quartet & Budapest Quartet recordings? Their tunings will be less stressy than the A=440Hz we are now used to.
> 
> The Végh Quartet set which I rely on is from 1973 by Valois. I presume it is one of their legendary recordings from the Chaux des Fonds, however there is liner notes detailing this in the extensive vinyl LP booklet. Just listening to the string quartet no. XVI in F major - the warmth is incredible - there is something about the really natural ambience of the recording coupled with the very subtle inflexions of bowing which seems to bring the music in and out like the ebbing of a tide with the gentle crescendo and diminuendo along the movement.
> 
> Either that or my turntable belt is knackered lol


Végh Quartet CD is unavailable, Vlach Quartet only early quartets, but I found Budapest Quartet...


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## Head_case

The Budapest Quartet recordings are the worse recorded set of the three string quartet ensembles sadly. 

All of my recordings are on vinyl LP - I think you can hunt them out on the internet and piece them together if you're fortunate. Not all CD transfers work out sadly. The middle quartets are also covered by the Vlach Quartet - they're available from the usual secondhand LP retailers. For the late quartets, I guess the Budapest Quartet CD cycle is probably the easier to find on the market.


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## davinci

Head_case said:


> The Budapest Quartet recordings are the worse recorded set of the three string quartet ensembles sadly.
> 
> All of my recordings are on vinyl LP - I think you can hunt them out on the internet and piece them together if you're fortunate. Not all CD transfers work out sadly. The middle quartets are also covered by the Vlach Quartet - they're available from the usual secondhand LP retailers. For the late quartets, I guess the Budapest Quartet CD cycle is probably the easier to find on the market.


Listening to strings on vinyl is the only way to go.


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## Head_case

Yay! 

Yes ....the warmth and textures of the vinyl LP era is something outstanding which I really lament with the clinically oversharpened digital CD media. 

When the British Journal of Photography editor was interviewed and asked why is it, in a digital era of cheap digicams and phone cameras, why film cameras and film are still doing so well, he responded stating that there is a romantic feel about film; film is sexy and visceral, in a way that digital just cannot replicate. People respond to film with their feelings; they respond to digital with their head. 

Same goes for vinyl 

All the arguments for digital MP3s yadayadayada are yadanathema except when pitted against the argument of cost and convenience.


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## davinci

*Head_case*... Yeah, it's a digital world. I'm so tired of it, I sent my 20 year old Linn Axis to be refurbished. It was serviced by one of the top Linn guys in the US. Now when u go into a Linn dealer and ask about TTs, they try to sell you a digital server.


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## Head_case

What is a digital server lol


Although I love vinyl, I'm finding the majority of new classical releases are made on CD or digital downloads only. Some 180gram pressings are made (of best sellers) although with a massive premium. It's the vintage LP stuff which I love hearing...the old world which the digital one doesn't care about (and the old world which costs a lot less than a new CD)


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## KenOC

Head_case said:


> ...the old world which the digital one doesn't care about (and the old world which costs a lot less than a new CD)


In the "old world" ca. 1963, a Columbia classical stereo LP cost $5.98. In today's dollars, that's $48. Think about it...


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## millionrainbows

KenOC said:


> In the "old world" ca. 1963, a Columbia classical stereo LP cost $5.98. In today's dollars, that's $48. Think about it...


You mean back in 1963 I was getting a $4 allowance instead of 50¢?

Re:vinyl: _*Yeah, but the reason vinyl sounds better to you is that you were listening to a turntable hooked up to a real stereo system, not MP3s through a cheap D/A converter in your computer.*_:lol:

I love my Denon 2900 DVD ($100 used). I hardly ever listen on my computer; it's only there for my portable devices.


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## Guest

I don't get why one would think digital is so much worse than vinyl. How exactly does the cracking and other "noise" of vinyl improve the hearing? Digital comes much closer to delivering the actual sound. Might I also assume that such people would detest a live performance, as it is missing all those memorable, "warm" sounds that come with playback on vinyl which seems so much more inviting? I suspect it is nothing more than nostalgia. 

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy listening to vinyl, and it brings back my sense of nostalgia for my youth. My family was always behind the times. I was still listening to records when most had tapes, tapes when most had CDs, and CDs when most had MP3 players. 

I like digital, because it is the most accurate way of recreating the sound. Additionally, vinyl fades over time. Vinyl can warp. You have to be careful to not scratch it, or else you have another level of "warmth" in that recording, if it doesn't cause the needle to skip all over the place. Digital can last forever, and is a much more robust format. It is also more convenient. With vinyl, I am limited as to where I can hear the music - to my knowledge, nobody has created a practical portable turntable. If there were car turntables that would allow you to listen to your music on the road, I am not aware of them. 

Remember, as well, that digital recordings predate MP3 and CD. There just wasn't a practical means of marketing digital format music, so they had to make do with what was available.


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## Head_case

Lol.......you are soooo behind the times!



















Get one now before they are all sold out! 

Wait .... they are all sold out. About 50 years ago. When the tape cassette was invented.

I listen to mini-discs in the car. Tried the iPod but the receiver kept on fluffing up around radio black spots and picking up interference. The mini-disc has a naturally higher quality amp (no reason why they can't do this for cheaper iPods).

It's not nostalgia. I'm sure you've had holes in your socks. Those are nostalgic. Most of us don't miss them and look forward to a new pair.

In a moment of thread rebelliousness, listening to Beethoven's Harp Quartet at the moment - Beethoven in the middle...on vinyl LP. Also available on high quality CD transfer:


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## Vaneyes

Head_case said:


> Lol.......you are soooo behind the times!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get one now before they are all sold out!
> 
> Wait .... they are all sold out. About 50 years ago. When the tape cassette was invented.
> 
> I listen to mini-discs in the car. Tried the iPod but the receiver kept on fluffing up around radio black spots and picking up interference. The mini-disc has a naturally higher quality amp (no reason why they can't do this for cheaper iPods).
> 
> It's not nostalgia. I'm sure you've had holes in your socks. Those are nostalgic. Most of us don't miss them and look forward to a new pair.
> 
> In a moment of thread rebelliousness, listening to Beethoven's Harp Quartet at the moment - Beethoven in the middle...on vinyl LP. Also available on high quality CD transfer:


Thanks for the hs memories. c1962, a friend had a 45 player custom-installed in his Corvair. 'Twas cutting edge.

View attachment 10834


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## millionrainbows

My problem with vinyl is not the medium itself; it's *DUST!*


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## Quartetfore

My problem with vinyl was the pops and clicks. I will take the cd "cold" sound an all any day.


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## Guest

You know, I sure do miss the days of the 5 1/4" floppy disk. It was just so much warmer and inviting than the cold, high capacity/minuscule size of the USB drives these days. Those big floppy disks just held data so much better - who the hell cares that the storage capacity was minuscule compared to modern disks and storage devices. It was just so much more personal and warm with that big clunky external floppy drive, and having to frequently swap out disks to go through an entire program. Why anybody now would want the cold new programs that have such better graphics and can do so much more due to the new "improved" data storage devices is beyond me.


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## Guest

From Wikipedia, these are some reasons that vinyl is not superior:



> Vinyl records do not break easily, but the soft material is easily scratched. Vinyl readily acquires a static charge, attracting dust that is difficult to remove completely. Dust and scratches cause audio clicks and pops. In extreme cases, they can cause the needle to skip over a series of grooves, or worse yet, cause the needle to skip backwards, creating a "locked groove" that repeats over and over. Locked grooves are not uncommon and were even heard occasionally in radio broadcasts. Vinyl records can be warped by heat, improper storage, exposure to sunlight, or manufacturing defects such as excessively tight plastic shrinkwrap on the album cover. A small degree of warp was common, and allowing for it was part of the art of turntable and tonearm design. "Wow" (once-per-revolution pitch variation) could result from warp, or from a spindle hole that was not precisely centered. Standard practice for LPs, which were more expensive than singles, was to include the LP in a plastic lined inner cover. This, if placed within the outer cardboard cover so that the opening was entirely within the outer cover, was said to reduce ingress of dust onto the record surface. Singles, with rare exceptions, had simple paper covers with no inner cover.
> 
> A further limitation of the record is that with a constant rotational speed, the quality of the sound may differ across the width of the record because the inner groove modulations are more compressed than those of the outer tracks. The result is that inner tracks have distortion that can be noticeable at higher recording levels.


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## Ukko

^^ Jeez, _Mike_, that article is one long whine. If it has a 78s part, I'm glad you left it out; the agony would be too much... well, even more too much.


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## Guest

Oh, there was more. I did spare you most of it.


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## realdealblues

While I have several recordings of Beethoven's string quartets (Sadly, I haven't seen this set mentioned yet either), this is the only one I actually feel I need.


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## Ukko

realdealblues said:


> While I have several recordings of Beethoven's string quartets (Sadly, I haven't seen this set mentioned yet either), this is the only one I actually feel I need.


The Amadeus SQ... a chance to use my newly created ITAK. Those people do not ring my chimes.


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## Guest

realdealblues said:


> While I have several recordings of Beethoven's string quartets (Sadly, I haven't seen this set mentioned yet either), this is the only one I actually feel I need.


I don't know much by this ensemble - actually, the only recording of theirs that I own is of Schubert's Trout quintet and the Death and the Maiden quartet.

@Hilltroll - what does ITAK mean?


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## KenOC

I have the Amadeus quartet cycle, very old DGG CDs. There are others I like a lot better.


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## Ukko

DrMike said:


> I don't know much by this ensemble - actually, the only recording of theirs that I own is of Schubert's Trout quintet and the Death and the Maiden quartet.
> 
> @Hilltroll - what does ITAK mean?


It Takes All Kinds.


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## Head_case

Oh my goodness. Adults actually quote wikipedia as a reliable source? *barrfff* 

Haha ... no doubt about it...the thought of having a *clean* environment without dust (that's what an Okki Nokki Record Cleaner is for) and going to a little diligence for good quality vinyl listening is beyond Wikiwriters. 

I'm glad I have a home; I'm glad I have a vinyl LP player in mine. Still love the digital minidisc: this is the great 1990's digital media which I love. 

Now back to Beethoven - the Végh Quartet cycle of the complete Beethoven String Quartets was available on the Naive label. Not sure if it still is. The vinyl LP era recordings may be from the mono era or later (mine are the mono ones which sound brilliant - but not stereo).


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## Guest

davinci said:


> Listening to strings on vinyl is the only way to go.


A good SACD, especially one recorded using DSD technology, can sound nearly as warm as vinyl minus the noise!


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## Head_case

It's a shame the industry killed off the SACD. I liked what I heard...and now that SACDs are as cheap as CDs, it's a great listener's experience. 

Interestingly, Musical Fidelity created a 'Super CD' player which rivalled the quality of sound of the SACD ..but the price was stratospheric. There's always a cost ratio balance for consumer listeners to think about and it was only ever designed for the privileged few. 

Right. I'm off to get a mega bass boom box underseat amplifier for my car stereo :lol:


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## Hausmusik

Ken,

By the time this thread has run its course every notable version of the late quartets will have been mentioned. That's the way this game works! But this is music with many dimensions, and at different times we look for different things in it, and different ensembles better approximate what we are looking for. You know my favorite used to be the Cleveland cycle, but these days it's Tokyo (both of them--and you know how I used to underrate the Harmonia Mundi cycle) and--wait for it--Kodaly [!], who have a warmth in this music that these days I find especially attractive.

CoAG, I agree ABQ's late Beethoven is among the very best, but the sonics are harsh so I have to steel myself.

Ken, you alerted me to Petersens, and they are among my favorites for 130/133. [Also, have you heard their Schubert string quintet? It's currently the one I listen to most--well, that and Belcea.]

I generally don't much like Emerson, but I do like them in late Beethoven.

Setting aside the Lindsays, there is only one I truly avoid. Borodin's late Beethoven on Virgin is flaccid and in terrible sound. Somebody over on the Amazon boards claims their Op. 132 is the best ever, which is the kind of remark that really damages one's credibility. I resold it. I have heard some of the Borodin's recent Onyx cycle; it is in better sound but still not outstanding.


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## Chrythes

I agree about the Kodaly Quartet. They are indeed "warmer" than most of the quartets I've heard, and their Beethoven middle quartets are great. But I'm a bit conflicted about the late ones. They play them beautifully, but sometimes they lack the dynamics that can be heard by the Takacs Quartet, though for me they are a bit over the top sometimes. Nevertheless, the Kodalys should get a honorable mention.


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## Hausmusik

Crythes, I've heard the Takacs in the early and middle quartets but not (I think) the late. (Over time it gets harder to keep track of these things without a spreadsheet--and actually, I do maintain a spreadsheet for LvB quartets, but I am not very good at keeping it current.) Their middle quartets rank near the top of the heap for me.

I agree with you that the Kodaly Qt. is more consistently outstanding in the middle than the late quartets, but I think they are superb in 127, 130/133 and 135. Your point about the lack of power is well taken, and I think especially applies to their 131.


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## Head_case

davinci said:


> Végh Quartet CD is unavailable, Vlach Quartet only early quartets, but I found Budapest Quartet...
> View attachment 10743


Okay....back on track away from the 'digital sucks' interjections of this thread...

Another fascinating recording to think about - the Quatuor Hongrois (Hungarian Quartet)'s 1950's mono recording is very temperamental and distinctive. It doesn't have the elegiac slow beauty of the Vlach or the Végh Quartet however offers a more petulant reading. I was surprised to see it's still available - must be its popularity:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=57944

The recordings are naturally much better than the Busch Quartet recordings from 1933 which sound distinctly like the best of the historical recording era. These Busch Quartet recordings are equalled in their complete recordings of Schubert's quartets (only a smattering committed to vinyl unfortunately).

I must say though: the *thought* of listening to mono recorded Beethoven does not appeal to me. When I flip a disc into the CD player, it grates me hearing the high pitched fuzz for the first few seconds.

Within a minute, I've completely forgotten and got swayed transported along with the flowing feeling and majesty of their intense playing. No one ever played tremolo violin appogiatura better than the Busch Quartet. These recordings really are special.

Back to the alternative reading by the Hungarian Quartet which hasn't been mentioned in this thread:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-String-Quartets-Quatuors/dp/B000002SBM

These listeners seem to share the same opinion about the stature of these wonderful recordings. As great as they are, if you are a real string quartet afficienado, I'd recommend you hang on out there for the complete Beethoven string quartet cycle by the Végh Quartet if you only ever intend on having one version. I have the Végh Quartet; the Vlach Quartet; the Quatuor Hongrois; the Busch Quartet and the Alban Berg Quartet readings and a real left of the field recording by the Taneyev Quartet. The Busch Quartet never completed the whole cycle for record (about 9 were recorded).

The only one which sticks out like a sore thumb...is the Alban Berg Quartet. They really do not grasp the spiritual dimension of this important string quartet oeuvre in the way their predecessors have. That is not to say that they play badly either. Perhaps they have watered down this dimension for the kind of audience that we have become...


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## Ukko

^^ I have several recordings by the Vegh SQ, all of them 'serviceable' except their Bartók set. I seem helpless to avoid stating that the Vegh is vague in Bartók. That is pretty useless of course; I mean that their interpretations leave me with the impression that they have taken all the edges off, and most of the spirit out.

BTW "I must say though: the *thought* of listening to mono recorded Beethoven does not appeal to me. When I flip a disc into the CD player, it grates me hearing the high pitched fuzz for the first few seconds." caused my eyebrows to wiggle in an aborted attempt to rise. That 'high pitched fuzz' is not (of course) a standard attribute of mono recordings. Being a really clever guy (something like Agent Smart), I almost immediately realized that you were referring to '78' recordings. It is important that the more inexperienced of the whippersnappers here not get wrong ideas about mono recordings.

 . . . .


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## Head_case

I'm referring to the noisy fuzz from the transfer recordings onto CD. Not whether it is mono or stereo...


The Végh Quartet's readings of the Bartok string quartet cycle are my favourite readings too - their students, the Keller Quartet comes in second. If you don't like them, it's okay to be left out in the cold - many warm to the Tacky recordings or the Emerson...


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## Ukko

Head_case said:


> I'm referring to the noisy fuzz from the transfer recordings onto CD. Not whether it is mono or stereo...
> 
> The Végh Quartet's readings of the Bartok string quartet cycle are my favourite readings too - their students, the Keller Quartet comes in second. If you don't like them, it's okay to be left out in the cold - many warm to the Tacky recordings or the Emerson...


"...warm to the Emerson"? Whatcha talkin' about, man?


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## Head_case

Haha. Oops. 

Well put it this way ... they aren't on my radar for Beethoven, Shostakovich, Bartok, or even Sibelius


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## mtgt

I would suggest the Orion string quartet. I also like the Busch and the Emerson. I believe my choice mostly depended on which one I get used to.


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## Klavierspieler

I only have the Emerson and they sound fine to me.


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## Quartetfore

Klavierspieler said:


> I only have the Emerson and they sound fine to me.


Me to, though I do have several versions.


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## KenOC

I very much like the late quartets by the Yale Quartet. You can check them out without financial pain because they're all included in the Bach Guild's 99-cent Big Beethoven Box.http://www.amazon.com/Big-Beethoven...=1364587614&sr=8-1&keywords=big+beethoven+box


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## userfume

Quartetto Italiano


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## ptr

My choice would be the Takács Quartet for all of the Beethovens, and perhaps the RTE Vanbrugh Quartet, the latter is quite a sleeper!
Quatuor Mosaïques only seem to have recorded the Op 18, otherwise they would be my Quartet to go for! 

/ptr


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## Quartetfore

userfume said:


> Quartetto Italiano


I have their complete set, and use it as a sort of reference set. I do find that they seem to play some of the works a bit slower than other groups. And yet, when their Op.59 #1 is compared to the Toyko Quartets version they are a minute faster! It`s hard to explain.


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## vertigo

I recently got No. 15 and 16 by the Brentano String Quartet. I enjoy it but I'm far from an expert...any opinions?


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## KenOC

Quartetfore said:


> I have their complete set, and use it as a sort of reference set. I do find that they seem to play some of the works a bit slower than other groups. And yet, when their Op.59 #1 is compared to the Toyko Quartets version they are a minute faster! It`s hard to explain.


I find the Italians mellifluous and with a beautiful sound. But in some quartets, especially the late ones, they don't "dig in" enough for my taste. Takacs!


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## Quartetfore

vertigo said:


> I recently got No. 15 and 16 by the Brentano String Quartet. I enjoy it but I'm far from an expert...any opinions?


The most important thing is that you enjoy the music, and you don`t have to be an expert to do that.


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