# Carl Nielsen



## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

I did a search to see if other threads have been started about this composer but I couldn't find any. I just wanted to say I have been getting into Nielsen's symphonies and they are incredible, dare I say they are on par with with the the works other famous Nordic composers like Grieg and Sibelius, or better (ducks for cover). 

But why just compare him to other Scandinavian composers? He is seriously underrated and is as good as Bruckner and Mahler, and perhaps Tchaikovsky, but that would be pushing it! 

So, just interested in other people's views of Nielsen.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

His music is great, got 2 complete cycles of his symphonies, numbers 4 and 5 are the best known. My firm belief is when you get into a great work like either of those, comparisons with any of the other great works of any Great Masters become superfluous, and is impossible. I believe Beethoven's masterpieces come from a self-consciously self-important angle, and is usually taken as such, as long as it meets or exceeds the listener's expectations. But taking away the context of historical and self-importance, many works become on equal footing.

I don't see any reason why anyone can't say the Inextinguishable Symphony (which sort of has its own self-important angle) is not any less than Beethoven's Ninth or Brahms' 4th, outside of historical context and herd-mentality.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

beetzart said:


> I did a search to see if other threads have been started about this composer but I couldn't find any. I just wanted to say I have been getting into Nielsen's symphonies and they are incredible, *dare I say they are on par with with the the works other famous Nordic composers like Grieg and Sibelius, or better (ducks for cover).*


I'd defend you if you say that, but I might be the only one! :lol: I'd probably rank the Nordic Big 3 with Nielsen first, Grieg second, and Sibelius 3rd. I'm sure most people would go with the inverse though. Anyway, Nielsen is quite unique and I find his style to be quite interesting. I don't find Symphony No. 2 to be all that interesting, but I like the others. I like his VC and his Aladdin Suite is very enjoyable in a similar way to Peer Gynt. The Esa-Pekka Salonen Conducts Nielsen bargain boxset from Sony that came out last year (be sure not to get the older, more expensive one called "Salonen Conducts Nielsen") is a good way to get a lot of Nielsen (6 CDs) for around $20.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Do check out his concertos (violin, clarinet, flute) as well!


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes, I will be getting his concertos as soon as I have absorbed his symphonies. But they are something else, all these these years and I've never even given him the time of day. That is the beauty of classical music, it just never ruddy ends!


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Great that you are enjoying Nielsen. For the sake of exploration, Bentzon, Holmboe, Rangström, Rautavaara, and Langgaard are also major Nordic symphonists.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Portamento said:


> Great that you are enjoying Nielsen. For the sake of exploration, Bentzon, Holmboe, Rangström, Rautavaara, and Langgaard are also major Nordic symphonists.


Kurt Atterberg is someone worth checking out too.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

... and Alfven and Louis Glass and Sallinen and ......

it indeed never ends....


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

*Sigh*... and don't forget Nørgård either...


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## stejo (Dec 8, 2016)

And then we have the string quartets, "the Young Danish string quartet" on label Dacapo is playing 
them roughly and with heavy spirit.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

beetzart said:


> ... is as good as Bruckner and Mahler, and perhaps Tchaikovsky...


I respectfully disagree. Yes, his symphonies are really good, but not in the same league as Mahler's or Tchaikovsky's or Bruckner's best ones (7, 8, 9).


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Nielsen is great, particularly his 1st symphony. I'm not sure I could consider him as better than Sibelius but he's certainly not far behind.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

jdec said:


> I respectfully disagree. Yes, his symphonies are really good, but not in the same league as Mahler's or *Tchaikovsky*'s or Bruckner's *best ones (7, 8, 9)*.


I'll take this to mean that Tchaikovsky's best symphonies are non-existent, and I wouldn't disagree. :lol:


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Chronochromie said:


> I'll take this to mean that Tchaikovsky's best symphonies are non-existent, and I wouldn't disagree. :lol:


Obviously with "7,8,9" I was referring to Bruckner's. And obviously Tchaikovsky's best symphonies exist (4,5,6) which are far superior to any Nielsen's symphony, specially the Pathetique.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

jdec said:


> OAnd obviously Tchaikovsky's best symphonies exist (4,5,6) which are far superior to any Nielsen's symphony, specially the Pathetique.


A subjective opinion with which I totally disagree so it is not at all obvious.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Becca said:


> A subjective opinion with which I totally disagree so it is not at all obvious.


can only reiterate the point being made here-as far as I am concerned Nielsen is 'far superior' to Tchaikovsky ( a subjective opinion I know!)

and as this thread appears to feature reminders about other 'Scandanavians' (I am aware that the geographical definition is problematic) can we at least acknowledge both Madetoja and Melartin.......and Tubin-admittedly Estonian but did spend his latter years in Sweden.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Becca said:


> A subjective opinion with which I totally disagree so it is not at all obvious.


Yep you can disagree but, 'obviously' you will not find a Nielsen symphony in this Top 20 symphonies list (from the famous poll made to 151 living conductors), whereas Tchaikovsky's 6th is a top 10 there. I agree with them (the conductors) on that.

http://www.classicaltyro.com/blog/files/twenty-greatest-symphonies.html


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I hate Nielsen. I have tried many times to like his symphonies, but there is no composer who bores me more. Yes! Even more than Schubert and Liszt.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I hate Nielsen. I have tried many times to like his symphonies, but there is no composer who bores me more. Yes! Even more than Schubert and Liszt.


It's the snare drum that put you to sleep, yes?


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## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

Carl NIELSEN: Wind Quintet, Op. 43 (1922)

Along with the 4th and 5th symphonies, the Wind Quintet is my favorite Nielsen work, primarily for the great Praeludium & Tema con variazioni final movement, which is a set of character variations on a hymn tune. (More often than not, I skip the first two movements and go straight to the final movement.) The work was written for the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet, whose members Nielsen was quite friendly with, and the variations are meant to reflect both the character of the instruments and of the corresponding players of the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet. Nielsen was so happy with the group's playing of the work that he resolved to write a concerto for each member. Unfortunately, he only managed to complete the ones for flute and for clarinet. The group also made the premiere recording of the work, in 1936, with four of the five original members; it's an excellent performance in surprisingly good sound and is available on the Clarinet Classics and the Danacord labels-the former being the preferable transfer to my ears, as the latter sounds over-filtered/-processed. A private transfer of the recording is on YouTube: 




As good as that account is, however, I can't recommend it above the early '60s account by the New York Woodwind Quintet available on a Concert-Disc/Boston Skyline CD. It would be hard to imagine a performance with better rapport and coordination among the players. The Royal Chapel Wind Quintet account boasts more boldly characterized (but not necessarily better characterized) individual contributions, but the ensemble playing, good though it is, isn't on a par with that of the NYWwQ. The New Yorkers aren't hurting for character, in any event, and their characterization of the final movement's variations is dead-on; they're particularly good at bringing out the almost mediaeval quality/atmosphere of some of the variations. Also worthy of note is the general "sound" that the NYWwQ produces, individually and corporately: more plaintive and dry, less bright and fruity than other wind ensembles; this is partly due to the early '60s recorded sound, which though clean, detailed, and well balanced, is a tad dry and slightly lacking in bloom-enhancing atmosphere.

For something light and gently humorous, you might investigate Nielsen's _Serenata in vano_ (1914), for clarinet, bassoon, horn, cello & double bass (which is a coupling for the Wind Quintet on both the Clarinet Classics and the Danacord releases mentioned above). "_Serenata in vano_ is a humorous trifle," the composer wrote. "First the gentlemen play in a somewhat chivalric and showy manner to lure the fair one out onto the balcony, but she does not appear. Then they play in a slightly languorous strain (Poco adagio), but that hasn't any effect either. Since they have played in vain (in vano), they don't care a straw and shuffle off home to the strains of the little final march, which they play for their own amusement." There's a fine recording from 1937 that features three members of the Royal Chapel Wind Quintet, which can also be heard via a private transfer on YouTube:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Do we always need to compare Sibelius and Nielsen just because they are both from Scandinavia? They are very different and both wonderful in their own way


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Triplets said:


> Do we always need to compare Sibelius and Nielsen just because they are both from Scandinavia? They are very different and both wonderful in their own way


I usually group Sibelius, Nielsen and Hanson together, as the "Scandinavian symphonists" - yes, Hanson was American, but of Nordic descent - he gets a similarly craggy, powerful sound, that is not unlike the Great Finn, and the Great Dane...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Dirge said:


> Carl NIELSEN: Wind Quintet, Op. 43 (1922)
> As good as that account is, however, I can't recommend it above the early '60s account by the New York Woodwind Quintet available on a Concert-Disc/Boston Skyline CD. It would be hard to imagine a performance with better rapport and coordination among the players.


Agreed - the NYWW 5tet was a really great group - Boston Skyline had issued most of their 5tet recordings, which are really benchmarks for me...don't know if they are still available. Their Nielsen 5tet recording is tops for me.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Fortunately , Nielsen's music os no longer obscure , and his highly individual works are being performed more than ever internationally , and there are more recordings than ever before, too .
In America, his music was almost totally unknown until the 1960s, when lLeonard Bernstein discovered it and began to champion and record his symphonies . Jean Martinon made his classic recording of the 4th for RCA with the Chicago symphony around this time , and Morton Gould recorded the second with the same orchestra . Ormandy and the Philadelphia recorded the first and sixth .
Bernstein and the great clarinetist Stanley Drucker of the NY Phil. recorded the clarinet concert, and Bernstein recorded the flute concerto with its then principal flutist Julius Baker .
Jascha Horentein made h is famous recording of the 5th with the New Philharmonia orchestra ,
and even Sir John Barbirolli recorded the fourth with the Halle orchestra .
Before Bernstein , none of the renowned music directors of the so-caled "Big Five" orchestras 
had championed Nielsen . Koussevitzky, Toscanini, Reiner, Mitropolouos , Rodzinski . never performed his music and chances are , they barely knew of his existence . 
Stokowski did not conduct Nielsen until long after being music director in Philadelphia . 
Later , Blomstedt, Berglund, Neeme Jarvi , Myung Whun Chung , Sixten Ehrling , Karajan, Kubelik, Rattle , and other leading conductors made notable recordings of Nielsen's symphonies and other orchestral works .
Alan Gilbert , with the New York Philharmonic initiate the so-called "Nielsen Project ", performing and recording all six symphonies for a Danish record label plus the clarinet and flute concertos etc ., and this was received with considerable critical acclaim .
Even Nielsen's two operas "Saul and David " and "Maskarade " have been recorded in the digital era and Maskarade has even been prefer outside of Denmark and Scandinavia . 
There was an earlier live recording of "Saul & David " from Copenhagen conducted by Horenstein " which has been available intermittently , and a more recent Digital one with Neeme Jarvi conducting on Chandos , which I have and recommend highly if you can find it . 
There is a superb DVD from the Royal Danish opera in Copenhagen of "Maskarade " which you really must get if you love Nielsen , and CD recordings conducted by Ulf Schemer on Decca , and Michael Schonwandt on a Danish label which are both excellent .
The Minnesota opera in Minneapolis has done productions of both . Could a Met production be sometime in the future ? It's not impossible !


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

The 4th symphony is one of my all-time favourites, perfect from start to finish, it's steel and ice and snow and fire and Beethovenian willpower, but I haven't been able to expand my tastes on Nielsen much beyond that. Wonder what I should try...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Klassik said:


> It's the snare drum that put you to sleep, yes?


Actually, if I had to choose one Nielsen work that stands out as "beguiling", it would be his Woodwind Quintet.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Xaltotun said:


> The 4th symphony is one of my all-time favourites, perfect from start to finish, it's steel and ice and snow and fire and Beethovenian willpower, but I haven't been able to expand my tastes on Nielsen much beyond that. Wonder what I should try...


If you want something that will give you a lot to work on, but is completely and utterly unique, try the 5th symphony. You may find that on a first complete listen, you'll be a bit baffled by aspects of the first movement but by the very end of the finale an odd satisfaction could arise. That's what happened for me, and in retrospect, the feeling couldn't exist without the first movement which I now love. It's like the instruments are having a conversation, and on the whole moves like a good conversation.

The 6th on the other hand, is dark and magical. Some people find it less accessible but I found it easier to jump into than the 5th, especially as someone who likes Prokofiev and Shostakovich.

The 3rd is the most romantic. You have a symphony of proportions worthy of the next generation of Brahms and Dvorak. The finale in particular has a great melody.

The 2nd and 1st have their charms for sure, the 1st being wonderfully concentrated in it's energy like a good 1st symphony is under good circumstances, the 2nd being sort of like a tone poem.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

As someone who has recently gotten into Sibelius but developed a solid obsession with Nielsen two years ago, I feel them to be equals and very different. Sibelius is utterly organic and subtle, Nielsen is precise(especially from the 4th symphony on) and can be very forceful or very organic depending on the work/movement. They both can build into tremendously emotional passages. Sibelius perhaps a little more, but Nielsen has the virtue of being more harmonically and orchestrally modern.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> If you want something that will give you a lot to work on, but is completely and utterly unique, try the 5th symphony. You may find that on a first complete listen, you'll be a bit baffled by aspects of the first movement but by the very end of the finale an odd satisfaction could arise. That's what happened for me, and in retrospect, the feeling couldn't exist without the first movement which I now love. It's like the instruments are having a conversation, and on the whole moves like a good conversation.
> 
> The 6th on the other hand, is dark and magical. Some people find it less accessible but I found it easier to jump into than the 5th, especially as someone who likes Prokofiev and Shostakovich.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the very interesting descriptions! I've tried symphony 5, but it's escaped my feeble brain thus far. Perhaps the 4th exists at the happy crossroads (for me) between more romantic predecessors and more modern followers? "Dark and magical" I like if it's like Sibelius 4th, but Prokofiev and Shostakovich, less so. I think I'll try the three early ones then!


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Xaltotun said:


> Thanks for the very interesting descriptions! I've tried symphony 5, but it's escaped my feeble brain thus far. Perhaps the 4th exists at the happy crossroads (for me) between more romantic predecessors and more modern followers? "Dark and magical" I like if it's like Sibelius 4th, but Prokofiev and Shostakovich, less so. I think I'll try the three early ones then!


I can heartily recommend the 3rd...my personal favourite, Nielsen's symphonies being amongst the 'classical' music I listen to with greatest frequency.(clavichorder is bang on when they mention specifically the melody of the final movement)

(not to say that the 1st and 2nd are not worth your time either!)


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

My initial exposure to Nielsen was by a radio broadcast of Bernstein's recording of the 5th, and it hooked me immediately. I have since come to really enjoy the 3rd and 4th. The 1st and 2nd are nice but as with Sibelius' first two, are not the equal of the later works. The 6th is still somewhat of an enigma.

I can also recommend a number of Nielsen's shorter works such as _Saga-Drøm, An Imaginary Trip to the Faroe Islands_, and _Helios Overture._


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Pan og Syrinx is a delightfully weird tone poem too.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't know if this CD is still available, but if you can find the Chandos recording of three of Nielsen's choral works , Hymnis Amoris , Sleep and Springtime on Funen with Leif Segerstam and the Danish National orchestra and chorus , grab it .
Hymnis Amoris is in Latin and is a song of praise to love, not the sexual kind but more in the Greek sense of Agape . 
"Sleep " is a weird choral piece about the experience of sleep , but it's not at all somnolent !
The text explores both the peaceful and restful benefits of sleep and the disturbing ones , such as nightmares . The central section is the depiction of a nightmare, with some truly weird harmonies . 
"Springtime on Funen" is a charming folksy autobiographical cantata taken from Nielsen's childhood and youth growing up on the idyllic Danish island of Funen in the Danish archipelago . There are soloists in addition to the chorus , portraying the simple, idyllic life of Danish peasants .


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

beetzart said:


> I did a search to see if other threads have been started about this composer but I couldn't find any. I just wanted to say I have been getting into Nielsen's symphonies and they are incredible, dare I say they are on par with with the the works other famous Nordic composers like Grieg and Sibelius, or better (ducks for cover).
> 
> But why just compare him to other Scandinavian composers? He is seriously underrated and is as good as Bruckner and Mahler, and perhaps Tchaikovsky, but that would be pushing it!
> 
> So, just interested in other people's views of Nielsen.


Agreed. Additionally, his chamber works are outstanding, and equally underrated.

-09


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Nielsen is quite underrated in general and definitely deserves to be more renown and critically exalted. His 5th Symphony is quite astonishing and probably his most remarkable work.

I wouldn't agree with some users that feel his symphonies are on the same level as Brahms and Beethoven's (or Mahler's) very best -- but they're not that far out of the picture either. In addition to their ability to elicit emotion(s) through music, Beethoven and Brahms were also masters at conveying multiple emotions in the same phrasing of melody/theme (Brahms with even more ambiguous, enigmatic combinations), and then expanding on this exponentially and creatively from innumerable angles/points-of-view. Beethoven's and Brahms' mastery of "cyclic form" (and their incredible creativity and compositional economy with this) makes them _very_ difficult to surpass because it's not just the emotional/conceptual conveyance of their symphonies that are impressive, but also the "prismatic", "reverberating effect" that permeates throughout them, that keeps multiplying layers and layers of content into overwhelming depth (for Beethoven's symphonies, from the 5th forward in particular; for Brahms' 3rd and 4th in particular). Each theme/melody/motive (etc) takes on increasingly greater significance throughout, as from the beginning to the end they are being alluded to, echoed, altered, reflected upon and expanded before, during and after their main emergence in the works, into quotations of musical architecture, creating a "domino effect" of context and content. This makes the amount of emotional significance they can generate "per unit of time" quite substantial.

Typing hastily from my phone, so hope that makes sense.

Oh -- this thread is about Nielsen?

Oh yes, he is phenomenal btw


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I can't see comparing Nielsen to late romantic German heavyweights. But I listen to his symphonies more than Brahms. Nielsen, Honegger, Martinu, and Bax are the post romantic symphonies I've been listening to the most. And Sibelius a couple times a year.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I have been listening to this Nielsen set lately. What stupendous sound. LSO is quickly becoming one of my favorite labels. Their online music store can't be beat for ease of use, and features hi-res for basically everything. Highly, highly recommended.

As far as the music goes, it is definitely in the Sibelius sort of vein, with a bit more of a "classical" feel. Very enjoyable. It will take me a few more listens to situate him among my other favorites, but he's certainly at least in the same ballpark as a Schumann or a Schubert in terms of overall "desire to listen to again."


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I have been listening to this Nielsen set lately. What stupendous sound. LSO is quickly becoming one of my favorite labels. Their online music store can't be beat for ease of use, and features hi-res for basically everything. Highly, highly recommended.
> 
> As far as the music goes, it is definitely in the Sibelius sort of vein, with a bit more of a "classical" feel. Very enjoyable. It will take me a few more listens to situate him among my other favorites, but he's certainly at least in the same ballpark as a Schumann or a Schubert in terms of overall "desire to listen to again."
> 
> View attachment 125561


When I was at my favorite local record store last, I saw and just barely passed up on a CD from the LSO Live label of Sir Colin Davis conducting Dvorak's 7th. Your high praise of the label has just convinced me to go back there and snag it up. And I've never even heard Dvorak's 7th. I think it was going for $2.

As for Nielsen, I picked up my first Nielsen CD the other day but have yet to listen, the Bernstein "Royal Edition" with Nielsen's 2nd and 4th. Soon, maybe even today actually.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> When I was at my favorite local record store last, I saw and just barely passed up on a CD from the LSO Live label of Sir Colin Davis conducting Dvorak's 7th. Your high praise of the label has just convinced me to go back there and snag it up. And I've never even heard Dvorak's 7th. I think it was going for $2.
> 
> As for Nielsen, I picked up my first Nielsen CD the other day but have yet to listen, the Bernstein "Royal Edition" with Nielsen's 2nd and 4th. Soon, maybe even today actually.


Everything I've heard of Davis' Dvorak leads me to believe it will be a good one. And I have not yet picked up a bum set from LSO Live. I now have Sibelius Symphonies, Sibelius Kullervo, and Nielsen Symphonies by Davis, Mendelssohn Symphonies by Gardiner, and Scriabin symphonies by Gergiev, and the sound has been superlative on each. They are all post-2000 live digital recordings.

You can sample the Dvorak recording here:

https://lsolive.lso.co.uk/collections/downloads/products/dvorak-symphony-no-7-download


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm leaning toward the Blomstedt Nielsen box because it includes the six symphonies, his opera Maskarade, and the choral work, Hymnis Amoris. The LSO Live sets are cool but I don't have a SACD player to take advantage of the fidelity.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Some of the Davis LSO Live Nielsen's are very good. I remember when they came out being a bit surprised as Nielsen had not been a common choice for Davis. There are two sets that I like a little more than the others (I think I have heard them all) - both are with the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic:

















The Oramo recordings do cover all six symphonies but are only available separately.


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

Don't sleep on Alan Gilbert's set with the New York Philharmonic. Surprisingly satisfying performances, great sound, and the concertos are included.


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

I gave him a fair chance, but I am sort of handicapped in that I value melody over most other elements in music. Very little in Nielsen sticks to my memory. I value the smaller works over the symphonies for that reason. Even some chamber works for winds.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Tero said:


> I gave him a fair chance, but I am sort of handicapped in that I value melody over most other elements in music. Very little in Nielsen sticks to my memory. I value the smaller works over the symphonies for that reason. Even some chamber works for winds.


What? No memorable melodies from Nielsen's Symphonies? Then you have been hearing the wrong composer.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Tero said:


> I gave him a fair chance, but I am sort of handicapped in that I value melody over most other elements in music. Very little in Nielsen sticks to my memory. I value the smaller works over the symphonies for that reason. Even some chamber works for winds.


I don't quite understand this. There's a lot of melody in Nielsen, also in the bigger works. An obvious, prime example would be the finale of the 3rd Symphony.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I would like to listen to some of that Rozhdestvensky set but I cant find samples anywhere.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> I don't quite understand this. There's a lot of melody in Nielsen, also in the bigger works. An obvious, prime example would be the finale of the 3rd Symphony.


Could not agree more......the finale of the 3rd remains one of my personal favourite movements throughout music!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Kuchar is surprisingly good in the 6 symphonies on Brilliant 3CD. 
One does certainly need the 5th with Bernstein, though.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> Kuchar is surprisingly good in the 6 symphonies on Brilliant 3CD.
> One does certainly need the 5th with Bernstein, though.


Yes, and the third with Bernstein too.


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

MusicSybarite said:


> What? No memorable melodies from Nielsen's Symphonies? Then you have been hearing the wrong composer.


That is how it's been. I can "name that tune" for hundreds of pieces, or at least name the composer.

I think I have a bit of a handicap with harmony, so I memorize pieces of music such as this, so the third time around I know most of the phrases and what follows in order to the one bieng played:





Needless to say I am a big fan of rondos and popular music that goes like verse chorus verse chorus solo verse chorus.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

premont said:


> Yes, and the third with Bernstein too.


Essential Nielsen:
Sym #2 - Gould/CSO
Sym #4 - Martinon/CSO
recorded beautifully by RCA in the 60z...still benchmark performances..
reissued in knockout sound in complete Martinon/Gould/Chicago sets


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

Playing a disc of wind quintets, with Nielsen Opus 43 on it. Fits in with the rest and has a lot of melody.

For orchestral works, I like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Nielsen-Orch...+chamber+works&qid=1571831795&s=music&sr=1-11
I like most of it, but the Aladdin one is a bit...ordinary.

Went ahead and ordered the clarinet concerto, on a disc with Francaix.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Heck148 said:


> Essential Nielsen:
> Sym #2 - Gould/CSO
> Sym #4 - Martinon/CSO
> recorded beautifully by RCA in the 60z...still benchmark performances..
> reissued in knockout sound in complete Martinon/Gould/Chicago sets


Yeah, the 2nd with Gould is very good. Martinon's 4th is rather fast.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> Essential Nielsen:
> Sym #2 - Gould/CSO
> Sym #4 - Martinon/CSO
> recorded beautifully by RCA in the 60z...still benchmark performances..
> reissued in knockout sound in complete Martinon/Gould/Chicago sets


Yes, they are very good and for a long time the best you could get. But I do think we have equals to them available to us now.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Tero said:


> That is how it's been. I can "name that tune" for hundreds of pieces, or at least name the composer.
> 
> I think I have a bit of a handicap with harmony, so I memorize pieces of music such as this, so the third time around I know most of the phrases and what follows in order to the one bieng played:
> 
> ...


Don't lose sleep over this, Tero! Everyone tells me that Richard Strauss is full of gorgeous tunes, I never seem to allow them to register!

Nielsen does have some dammed good tunes, though. And some fine fingerprints, come to think about it. One to find is the catchy march from Aladdin? And it may be a remarkably cheesy and twee piece (I love it btw!) but there are singalong-a-bits-aplenty in Springtime in Funen.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I took to Nielsen quite a lot later than Sibelius. I think I was looking for a Danish Sibelius in his music but that is not what's there. In some ways they are almost opposites. With Sibelius I often envisage nature at its most elemental while with Nielsen I feel the music is more likely to make me picture community: towns and "human events".


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> Yeah, the 2nd with Gould is very good. Martinon's 4th is rather fast.


The Gould #2 is fast...very lively tempi,but it works because the orchestra is completely on top of it...lots of energy.
Martinon's #4 isn't esp fast, but it's plenty lively...lots of drive, and the orchestra playing is stunning, really non pareil....I knew low brass players who literally wore out LPs listening to it...woodwinds and strings are quite spectacular as well...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> Yes, they are very good and for a long time the best you could get. But I do think we have equals to them available to us now.


Really?? I've heard quite a few, but these gems from the 60s still top the list for me...Gilbert's NYPO efforts are good, well played and recorded, but the tempi seem a little staid....could use more drive, more forward momentum...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Heck148 said:


> The Gould #2 is fast...very lively tempi,but it works because the orchestra is completely on top of it...lots of energy.
> Martinon's #4 isn't esp fast, but it's plenty lively...lots of drive, and the orchestra playing is stunning, really non pareil....I knew low brass players who literally wore out LPs listening to it...woodwinds and strings are quite spectacular as well...


I prefer the 4th a little less light at times, but taste differs. I agree that Gould has some very good ideas in the 2nd (and a ditto combination of them).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> I prefer the 4th a little less light at times, but taste differs. I agree that Gould has some very good ideas in the 2nd (and a ditto combination of them).


Martinon's #4 is not what I would consider "light"...really powerful stuff!! tremendous sonic wallop from the orchestra....a perfect combination of energy and power...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Well, we'll have to agree about disagreeing then ... 

Timings aren't necessarily that telling, because of the contrasts of tempo even within the individual movements, but Martinon is definitely faster than average in the quicker sections of the first and fourth movements, making the whole atmosphere somewhat different from many others.

Martinon - 10:32 4:06 10:22 7:44
Blomstedt / San Francisco - 12:09 5:06 9:47 9:09

Some further ones:

Kuchar 11:08 4:31 9:34 8:47
Schønwandt 12:34 4:54 9:32 9:33
Järvi / Gothenburg 11:47 4:08 8:59 8:46
Bernstein 12:58 5:38 11:41 9:55
Karajan 12:59 4:57 11:46 8:48
Gilbert 11:28 5:16 10:10 9:06
Grøndahl 11:42 4:49 10:48 8:50


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## Tero (Jun 2, 2012)

Starting to like the clarinet concerto. I'm one of those weird people who listens to clarinet and piano duets. Even bassoon and piano.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Tero said:


> Starting to like the clarinet concerto. I'm one of those weird people who listens to clarinet and piano duets. Even bassoon and piano.


Piano and wind duets are quite enjoyable. Nothing weird about listening to that stuff.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

joen_cph said:


> Well, we'll have to agree about disagreeing then ...
> 
> Timings aren't necessarily that telling, because of the contrasts of tempo even within the individual movements, but Martinon is definitely faster than average in the quicker sections of the first and fourth movements, making the whole atmosphere somewhat different from many others.
> 
> ...


interesting....Martinon does not seem rushed at all, but rather very energetic, hard-hitting, and beautifully played in the slower, softer passages...the post-Reiner CSO was an amazingly aggressive ensemble, real go-getters....the Gould Nielsen #2 is characteristic as well of this aggressive, driving style that typified the orchestra.


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