# I'm addicted to Vivaldi



## Marx (Dec 23, 2013)

I've downloaded this video and modified it in Audacity so the bass is amplified for my personal hearing. My hearing is not in any way impaired but Vivaldi is all about the bass line (Basso Continuo) - the underpinning. His movement 1 & 3 often converge to a poignant and transcendent fifth progression. Everything else is fractal but the fractal structure of reality is broken by the fifth progression. It is an enigma and the raw essence of creation woven into his concerti.

You should listen to the entirety of the video.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Sorry, but I could only handle about one minute of the clip. Modern strings are my problem.


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## Trillo (Jan 4, 2014)

Is someone able to identify the opening piece? It's one of the most alluring melodies I have ever heard!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vivaldi is awesome. No doubt about it.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I really like the Vivaldi religious choral works very much: Magnificat, Dixit, Gloria, etc.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Vivaldi is one of those composers that, once you've been addicted to him once, you'll never have to listen to him again.

At least that's how it was for me.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

There are plenty of former Vivaldi addicts on TC. Certainly enough to form a twelve-step group, at least, or as ViolaDude said, the addiction seems to have a sort of spontaneous natural end.

The addiction normally hits a high percentage of those who are just beginning to look into either classical altogether, or are for the first time looking into the Baroque


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

The addiction normally hits a high percentage of those who are just beginning to look into either classical altogether, or are for the first time looking into the Baroque 

Or it returns and remains with those who after digging deep into the Baroque and singing the praises of Lully, Rameau, Biber, Couperin, Monteverdi, Charpentier, Purcell, Corelli, Buxtehude, Alessandro Scarlatti, Albinoni, etc... realize that the Red Priest remains one of the true towering figures of the period.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I wouldn't say I'm addicted to Vivaldi, but I love his music. I have quite a few of his concertos, string symphonies, concerto grossi, and trio sonatas. I don't think there are any works that I don't find appealing, and many are simply wonderful. I definitely want to explore his vocal works more. My daughter just played the Concerto for 2 Cellos (RV 531). It's simply a gorgeous work. I have trouble believing I would ever tire of Vivaldi.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

It seems he is mostly known for his concertos. Did he write any solo pieces, or non-concerto like works?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> The addiction normally hits a high percentage of those who are just beginning to look into either classical altogether, or are for the first time looking into the Baroque
> 
> Or it returns and remains with those who after digging deep into the Baroque and singing the praises of Lully, Rameau, Biber, Couperin, Monteverdi, Charpentier, Purcell, Corelli, Buxtehude, Alessandro Scarlatti, Albinoni, etc... realize that the Red Priest remains one of the true towering figures of the period.


As you say, it takes its proportionate place vs. being a baroque mono obsession


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

guy said:


> It seems he is mostly known for his concertos. Did he write any solo pieces, or non-concerto like works?


Try this.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Try this.


Oh god, choral music. I just found his oboe sonata in c minor, so everything is okay. Thank you, IMSLP!


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

guy said:


> It seems he is mostly known for his concertos. Did he write any solo pieces, or non-concerto like works?


He composed much sacred, chamber, and operatic music. "La Griselda" and "Il Farnace" are my favorite operas of his.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

As for the concertos--I've definitely had the same experience as Violadude.

For years, I desperately wanted to get my hands on his Violin Concerto known as "Il Piacere"; just before Amazon.com became such a major market entity. By the time I finally got my hands on a decent recording, I was over it. I think playing a lot of Vivaldi in my violin lessons especially dulled my ears to his concertos.

His other music is still interesting to me. He was a great composer of concertos, there's no denying the fact.

Epilogue: the slow movement of "Il Piacere"--Violin Concerto in C, Op. 8/6, RV 180--is still enjoyable for me.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

Novelette said:


> He composed much sacred, chamber, and operatic music. "La Griselda" and "Il Farnace" are my favorite operas of his.


Oh dear, operas.... :/ Why does everyone write operas?!


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

guy said:


> Oh dear, operas.... :/ Why does everyone write operas?!


That's where all the "moolah" was back then.

But the real question is...why does everyone hate operas :/

(or vocal music in general).


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> That's where all the "moolah" was back then.
> 
> But the real question is...why does everyone hate operas :/
> 
> (or vocal music in general).


Instrumental music is so pleasant. That is what got me into Classical music.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

violadude said:


> That's where all the "moolah" was back then.
> 
> But the real question is...why does everyone hate operas :/
> 
> (or vocal music in general).


I dislike it on the principal that good music does not need words or actions to convey meaning.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I do believe he was called the Red Priest because he got so many musical compliments, didn't know how to accept them and was chronically embarrassed, hence, always flushed.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I do believe he was called the Red Priest because he got so many musical compliments, didn't know how to accept them and was chronically embarrassed, hence, always flushed.


Or he had red hair, and was a priest.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

guy said:


> Or he had red hair, and was a priest.


That's the traditional reason. Mine is revisionist.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

hpowders said:


> That's the traditional reason. Mine is revisionist.


Then what about the priest part?


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

The Gloria! <3

(I go through periods of obsessing over particular pieces, not so much particular composers. The Gloria and L'estro armonico were recent obsessions.)


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

Vivaldi's Le quattro stagioni never gets old. At least for me.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

Rachmanijohn said:


> Vivaldi's Le quattro stagioni never gets old. At least for me.


Especially the first movement of Winter and Summer. The last one is really tough, though.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Here is a good one:


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

I find his music sothing and beautiful


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

hpowders said:


> I do believe he was called the Red Priest because he got so many musical compliments, didn't know how to accept them and was chronically embarrassed, hence, always flushed.


I think he was called Red Priest because he was spiritual father of communism.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Aramis said:


> I think he was called Red Priest because he was spiritual father of communism.


No, it was because in his younger days, before almost accidentally stumbling upon music, he was in the Inquisition, and was noted for his savagery during interrogations and public executions of heretics. :angel:


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

:lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Aramis said:


> I think he was called Red Priest because he was spiritual father of communism.


That was my other theory.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

guy said:


> Then what about the priest part?


Do you know of any priest who sits around all day composing and re-composing the same piece of music for all four seasons of the year, year after year with minor variations and pretends he wrote 400 separate pieces? I think not. There obviously was no time for mass.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

brianvds said:


> No, it was because in his younger days, before almost accidentally stumbling upon music, he was in the Inquisition, and was noted for his savagery during interrogations and public executions of heretics. :angel:


I will read up on this. Sounds plausible.

Update: during the interrogations he played I Musici's versions of his music. He didn't have to wait long for the unfortunates to be completely broken.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Haters will hate


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

And satirists will satire.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

guy said:


> Oh dear, operas.... :/ Why does everyone write operas?!





> I dislike it on the principal that good music does not need words or actions to convey meaning.


Listen, man, I totally support your ignorant superstition towards Schoenberg but what you have written now about opera it simply ignorant superstition.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

guy said:


> I dislike it on the principal that good music does not need words or actions to convey meaning.


That explains why you LIKE instrumental, not why you dislike vocal. Why discount such a beautiful and expressive instrument as the human voice?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Sonata said:


> That explains why you LIKE instrumental, not why you dislike vocal. Why discount such a beautiful and expressive instrument as the human voice?


For me, not a fan of heavy vibrato. And instruments just sound better imo. Hard to argue taste. I just like the sound of instruments more. But I do like plenty of singing in rock music. With instruments still being a big part of the music.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Human voice is the greatest instrument. That is why I can love classical choral music sung in foreign languages. I really love to listen to sung German.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Properly informed singers of Bach and Handel do sing with limited vibrato.


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## Copperears (Nov 10, 2013)

Rachmanijohn said:


> Vivaldi's Le quattro stagioni never gets old. At least for me.


It was getting old for me, being overplayed on the radio, in the movies, etc. etc. but then over the holidays I chanced upon this:

http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-Four-Seasons-Elizabeth-Blumenstock/dp/B005HO1WAG

Which is a truly wonderful original instruments recording.

I still naturally gravitate to Pinnock and his horde for Vivaldi, but it's great to hear it made strange and not so music box-tinkly sweet, too.

And now let's argue over the ancient instruments approach; where's that thread?


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## Copperears (Nov 10, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> For me, not a fan of heavy vibrato. And instruments just sound better imo. Hard to argue taste. I just like the sound of instruments more. But I do like plenty of singing in rock music. With instruments still being a big part of the music.


Good vibrato, under fine control, is extremely difficult to do well. You don't dislike vibrato, you just dislike bad vibrato.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Flamme said:


> Haters will hate


Or, as Vivaldi would say:

They see me composin', they hatin', listenin' they tryin' to catch me composin' dirty


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

Sonata said:


> That explains why you LIKE instrumental, not why you dislike vocal. Why discount such a beautiful and expressive instrument as the human voice?


What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

Aramis said:


> Listen, man, I totally support your ignorant superstition towards Schoenberg but what you have written now about opera it simply ignorant superstition.


I do believe an explanation is in order.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.

Now that's the most bizarre attempt to feign a logical reason for a personal bias yet. What does the piano add to music? What does the violin add? The piano, the violin, the human voice all add a world of further possibilities... yet certainly none of them is necessary. There is great music without piano, without violin, without the human voice... but there is also an endless world of brilliant music that has made the most marvelous and expressive uses of the abilities of each of these instruments... and yes! The human voice is just one more instrument... but one of the most versatile and expressive.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

_Aramis- Listen, man, I totally support your ignorant superstition towards Schoenberg but what you have written now about opera it simply ignorant superstition._

I do believe an explanation is in order.

There's a certain embarrassment in having to ask someone to explain a joke. Better off to just nod your head, feign a bit of a smile or chortle... and pretend to got it.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

guy said:


> What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.


Your misconception is that words are somehow dominating the work if they are included and their presence forces the listener to perceive it through their meaning first and foremost. Meanwhile, words in many compositions settle the content of the piece in very vague way, just like the title does - they hint to something, and even that something might be very individual thing taken differently by each listener. This applies to Vivaldi, whose vocal works are hardly declamatory in nature. If you think that "to convey the meaning of the piece should be left to the listener", you might just as well refuse to listen to any piece of music meaning of which is in the slightest way expressed in it's title, program or any other extra-musical association conceived by it's author.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

guy said:


> What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.


So, should we assume you shun theater, films and books? They all, _just like music without words_, are calculatedly written to manipulate your thoughts and emotions, and the movies zOMG! use music to tell you how to feel while the scene is going on -- name of the game, ground floor and up.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I prefer movies without the manipulating background music to tell me when I should be scared or teary-eyed.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

guy said:


> What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.


By that argument I presume that all of your non-classical music listening (if applicable) is instrumental as well?

And you can easily enjoy the human voice without knowing what words the singer uses. I frequently listen to vocal classical music without looking up the text.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I prefer movies without the manipulating background music to tell me when I should be scared or teary-eyed.


Get teary eyed often do you ?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

guy said:


> Oh dear, operas.... :/ Why does everyone write operas?!


Know a lot about opera do you ?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

violadude said:


> That's where all the "moolah" was back then.
> 
> But the real question is...why does everyone hate operas :/
> 
> (or vocal music in general).


They don't really, but the ones who do don't understand it and people appear to be afraid of what they don't understand---also it's for grown ups of course.


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## guy (Jan 4, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> What does it really add, other than more tones? What is the purpose of the words? To convey the meaning of the piece? That should be left to the listener.
> 
> Now that's the most bizarre attempt to feign a logical reason for a personal bias yet. What does the piano add to music? What does the violin add? The piano, the violin, the human voice all add a world of further possibilities... yet certainly none of them is necessary. There is great music without piano, without violin, without the human voice... but there is also an endless world of brilliant music that has made the most marvelous and expressive uses of the abilities of each of these instruments... and yes! The human voice is just one more instrument... but one of the most versatile and expressive.


I don't disagree. There's lot's of great vocal works. _Winterreise_, for example. It's great. I just don't like the concept.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

The voice was human's very first and most natural instrument. It's quite extraordinary if you really listen.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Vesuvius said:


> The voice was human's very first and most natural instrument. It's quite extraordinary if you really listen.


Followed in short order by the rock and thighbone, for which many fine concerti were written. Sadly, none survive...


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vesuvius said:


> The voice was human's very first and most natural instrument. It's quite extraordinary if you really listen.


Every voice is unique. Some much more enjoyable than others. Even the good voices I prefer with accompaniment though. But I like every instrument with more accompaniment. There isn't one instrument that does it all for me. Though the piano comes close.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

The piano is most excellent, for sure.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I prefer movies without the manipulating background music to tell me when I should be scared or teary-eyed.


That is what books are for.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

That background music really gets to me. It definitely intensifies the situation. I like it if not overdone.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

violadude said:


> That's where all the "moolah" was back then.
> 
> But the real question is...why does everyone hate operas :/
> 
> (or vocal music in general).


It is entirely possible to dislike operas, yet not hate them. For example, in the introduction to the Cambridge Opera Handbooks series on Fidelio, they state:


> Fidelio... is an opera that many listeners otherwise averse to the genre claim to admire: it's intellectual seriousness and humanity, those listeners contend, save it from the frivolity and exhibitionism endemic to opera."


I couldn't agree more. But surely there are other good operas out there, yet Beethoven apparently could not find a suitable libretto for a second opera.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

I like the sadness in his musics.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2015)

I too enjoy the Vivaldi bass lines. Vivaldi and Bach had the best bass lines in all of classical music.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Vivaldi is one of my favorites for religious choral works. I have a lot of such Vivaldi.


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## candi (Nov 15, 2014)

Discovered tonight Vivaldi Concerto C major, RV558. And then bought the new CD for $2. Sweeet.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

candi said:


> Discovered tonight Vivaldi Concerto C major, RV558. And then bought the new CD for $2. Sweeet.


Good find!--that's basically a perfect recording.


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## Rik1 (Sep 22, 2015)

Apologies I've not read the whole thread, but if you love his bass lines check out Rachel Podger's recording of La Stravaganza. It's phenomenal and very addictive to listen to.


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