# Gergiev....



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I was saying that I didn't like this guy so much...He has a modern...rather capitalist vision of music...

Some people think like me:

Amazon.com about his double Boris, double fiasco:

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A sheer disappointment, July 14, 2009 
By E. RAPOPORT "ER"This review is from: Mussorgsky: Boris Godounov (1869 & 1872 Versions) (Audio CD) 
A sheer disappointment 
I have Boris Godunov conducted by Fedoseyev since 1985, and after so many years, I still find that it is superb, with excellent voices and orchestra and excellent quality of performance and recording. Reading the various reviews in this site, glorifying Gergeiev's version,I was tempted to have a newer DDD recording and performance with the famous Gergeiev, along with the opportunity to compare the first 1869 and the 1872 final version. 
What a disappointment!!! I find the performance very mediocre, standard, without any spark of inspiration, so is the recording. The male voices, basses and tenor unintersting. The basses lack the grandeur and depth of the Russian basses, and do not stand any comparison with the excellent soloists of Fedoseyev. The tenor in the 1869 version is not more than adequate, while the one in the 1872 version has a very dry dull voice. 
In my view, Philips should scrap this recording and keep that of Fedoseyev. My advice to listners is to stay away.( I noticed that one commentator stated that Fedoseyev's version is the worst. His statement reflects only his personal taste, and not any absolute fact. I made it clear that I am speaking from my experience only.) Help other customers find the most helpful reviews 
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I bought many Gergiev's: mainly Rimsky-Korsakov's operas: The tsar's bride, and all the others...Kitezh, many many....I compared these with my LP and I was never happy, finally I got Svetlanov, Melik-Pashayev, etc with wonderful singers (Kozlovsky, Lemeshev, Vizhnestkaya) and I am really satisfied.

I know not everybody shares my point of view...but knowing the former versions should change your mind. Gergiev didn't "invent" anything, he used a small budget and a lot of charisma (the guy knows "business")...Good think about him, he allowed the Western poublic to better know Russian opera, that is GREAT!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*you would love Gergiev*

maybe because you like the operas he conducts...But when you can compare with another version...what a disappointment you will have....I'm telling you this because I bought ever Rimsky-Korsakov in the 1970's on LP. The versions were wonderful but LP remains LP. I bought a lot of Gergiev buy gladly all the LPs I had are now available on CD. I bought them again, there are much better! Of course a matter of opinion but you will find many people sharing my opinion. Rimsky-Korsakov group, everybody knows Gergiev as the better-than-nothing version...and sometimes less expensive....Gergiev was always with Philips...Why?

Martin


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

So it is the singing that you have a problem with? Certainly singing and playing has gotten more homogeneous world wide since the 40s and 50s (maybe later for the USSR), but I really don't find the Russian casts used in the Gergiev Russian opera recordings objectionable. As far as I can tell, it is idiomatic. Certainly reviews that I've read in Fanfare and Gramophone and on MusicWeb were favorable. I don't give much weight to Amazon reviews but that is just me and I'm not sure what the Rimsky-Korosakov group is. Issues of bland uniformity aside, I don't miss the old russian orchestra wind tone at all. Will the HIP purists demand a return to bleating oboes for Shostakovich symphonies?

Do you think that Gergiev and Philips were in a conspiracy to only record poor singers?

I have some of those older Soviet LP recordings but I seldom listen to them since the pressings were dreadful. As I like to listen to alternative performances (I have Boris from Cluytens, von Karajan--in all its R-K glory--,Fedoseyev, 2 Gergiev, Lazarev/DVD and Dobrowen, not to mention the highlight discs) so I'll continue to explore other recordings maybe even Svetlanov. Still I do not regret the Gergiev recordings that I have. In fact, they are some of my favorites.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*good news.*

all your old LP were recorded again on CD, it shows you that they are worth! I bought them again....I'm not just speaking about very old versions...but the 1950's

Snegurotchka, Tsarskaya nevesta, Tsar Saltan, Kitezh, Ruslan, a life for the tsar, Boris, etc...all of them in excellent versions.

I can't speak about a cospiracy...I don't hate Gergiev, he had the talent to make know better Russian opera in the West...but his interpretations are too personal...a bit as Pierre Boulez...I'd call that *questionable* interpretations. Rather than very bad...

Martin


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I like Gergiev, A year or so ago I saw him perform Tchaikovskys 5th wth the orhestrated pictures at an exhibition - I also have a few CDs of his work. What strikes me his the organic and lively feel with which he conducts. None of the super rigid tempo and precision but definitely the feeling of the music is conveyed to its fullest. Kind of hit and miss.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*I loved many of his recordings too*

I have some Prokofiev by him...He's terrific. My problems are with his operas...Is he an opera guy? This is a point. You have many conductors that are better for opera and others for symphonic. I think Gegiev is great for symphonic....less good for opera.

Martin


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

Some opera singers (and not only them) blame him for having very busy schedule and only a little time for rehearsals. Lots of people in Russia hate him for making non-rehearsed concerts with his orchestra playing so-so. In fact we don't have much opportunities in Russia. 

E.g. Yuri Simonov is a great conductor, but his repertoir is a little bit conservative. Still, he is a great teacher and orchestra-trainer. I respect him so much. Polyanski has good chorus, but so-so orchestra (I was dissapointed by their Mahler). Spivakov? Does he conducts anything interesting for me, I mean Mahler or Bruckner or even Stravinsky? I hate that I don't live in Berlin or Amsterdam.

I'm really tired of Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov and 3rd concert by Prokofiev! Maybe, it's unpatriotic, but when I saw Berlin Philharmonie pogramm for 2010-2011 I was crying: "Why I don't live there?"

Maybe he is not so bad, but we need more then the same Gergiev and the same Matsuev all the time. If you have too much of chocolate you begin to hate it.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I couldn't disagree more. Gergiev is definitely one of the greatest living conductors,and great both in opera and orchestral repertoire. I like the Fedoseyev Boris, but the Gergiev double version is every bit as good. 
This is the REAL Mussorgsky - stark, rugged and totally unprettified. Gergiev can be erratic at times, but his best performances are unforgettable, and he's made some of the best recordings of Russian music ever made . No one who loves Russian opera should be without his recordings such as Rimsky-Korsakov's Sadko, Kashchei the Immortal, The legend of the Invisible City of Kitezh, The Tsar's Bride, The Maid of Pskov, Mussorgsky's Khovanshchina,
Borodin's Prince Igor, Tchaikovsky's Pique Dame, Prokofiev's Love for 3 Oranges, The Fiery Angel, War and Peace, Semyon Kotko, Betrothal in a Monastary , the Gambler, 
The Nose by Shostakovich etc. 
And don't miss the DVD of the Met's new production of Boris when it comes out on DVD. I saw it on PBS,and it was the Met at its best.
He's not only good in Russian music,. Verdian's should not miss his Philips recording of the original version of La Forza Del Destino, possibly not "idiomatic", but it packs a punch !
He's no slouch in Wagner,either.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

superhorn said:


> ... Verdians should not miss his Philips recording of the original version of La Forza Del Destino, possibly not "idiomatic", but it packs a punch!












I'm interested  - - can you explain further what you mean by 'idiomatic'?


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

sospiro said:


> I'm interested  - - can you explain further what you mean by 'idiomatic'?


Actually this Gergiev recording of La Forza is one of his few flaws. It's a pity that this re-premiere of La Forza in the Mariinsky Theatre was done so uninspiredly. Not to be recommended.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

superhorn said:


> He's not only good in Russian music, Verdians should not miss his Philips recording of the original version of La Forza Del Destino, possibly not "idiomatic", but it packs a punch!





TxllxT said:


> Actually this Gergiev recording of La Forza is one of his few flaws. It's a pity that this re-premiere of La Forza in the Mariinsky Theatre was done so uninspiredly. Not to be recommended.




This is one of the reasons I love this art form. When I first got into opera, I used to feel inadequate & ignorant if I liked something the so-called experts didn't. Now of course I understand how subjective it is.

Even more tempted now! :tiphat:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

From what I hear Gergiev's reputation rests primarily on white-heat live performances - conversely he seems to often flatter to deceive in the studio. I have a number of his Philips 'Kirov' opera recordings which were recorded in the theatre but not in front of an audience and I've no issue with any of them.


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

elgars ghost said:


> Philips 'Kirov' opera recordings


Yeah, they're pretty good. Some of them, afaik, were never recorded in stereo before, and it's kinda nice to see people recording new stuff, rather than recording yet another Beethoven's symphony.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Idiomatic is a sort of loaded term in opera,meaning "authentic" in style.
Not every one agrees what this authenticity is. Sometimes,for example,when a non-italian conductor conducts or records an Italian opera, opera mavens will dismiss it as "unidiomatic",ie, stylistically inauthentic. 
For example, some experts consider Karajan's recordings of Italian operas such as Falstaff,Otello,Aida, Il Trovatore,La Boheme,Tosca,Madama Butterfly and Turandot to be "unidiomatic". However,you can't deny that Karajan makes these operas, which have been too often led by hack Italian conductors giving their umpteenth hum drum performances
of them ,sound fresh and exciting, and full of new insights. Try them yourself.
Supposedly, Italian singers and conductors have some sort of monopoly on the "authentic" style of performing them. NOT!!!!!! Nobody does !


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

I didn't say that he is bad conductor, but I said: "Some opera singers (and not only them) blame him for having very busy schedule and only a little time for *rehearsals".*

Solti said in his memoirs that the orchestra MUST have a lot of time for rehearsals.

I love Gergiev's "Nose" and "Fiery Angel" and his Mussorgsky orchestral works. Haven't heard his Wagner. But as far as I know, no one found the idea of performing 4 operas in a week (in London) to be a good one.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I guess he could be called the Billy Graham of classical music, in as much as his revivals travel quickly from town to town to town. His numbers of converts aren't as impressive as Rev. Graham's.


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