# Usage of Locrian Mode



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

Does anyone have any examples of Locrian used in classical? I know Debussy and Ravel have used it in certain passages but I don't know the pieces.

I also support the viability of the mode in general, and reject the notion that it's unuseable or inherently sounds bad. I don't think a collection of notes without any context can be called inherently ugly. It's difficult to use but composition often requires to use igenuity and outside the box solutions. Granted, it's difficult to have tonic be a diminished triad (which can only be done via repetition, drone, or static harmony hat remains entirely in Locrian as there's no way to tonicize a diminished chord by cadential resolution. But I have heard people take this approach and make it sound good!), but this is viewing the Locrian mode through the narrow lens of traditional, by the book functional harmony. We've been liberated fron functional harmony for over a century so why is the Locrian mode so useless then? For example, I've found that Locrian can be used well over quartal harmony to circumvent the problem of the tonal center being an unstable diminished triad. 

Locrian can also be used well when composing with riffs and a couple chord changes, which I've found myself as well as in other people's music. 

Also, non-Western classical music doesn't use vertical harmony the way we're accustomed to so Locrian could be used in a melodic, non-Western way. I've yet to find any examples of this myself though. Through my research on the subject I've seen mentions of a maqam being similar to Locrian but need to dig deeper there.

(EDIT: It's the maqam Lami, which is admittedly a rarer maqam but one nonetheless)

Locrian is really unexplored territory in music and I've found excellent examples of its implementation online (I can provide examples, I'm just too lazy to grab the links right now). The dark, unique qualities of the mode deserve more use and I think the blanket dismissal of the mode is one of the most narrow-minded music theory narratives.


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## Bwv 1080

I guess for true believers in CST, Mozart used the Locrian mode every time a half-diminished chord appeared

Seriously, it had no usage in older modal systems (its not part of the Indian Thaat system either)

The characteristic intervals do show up in non-tonal music - you can play it over Bartok’s z-cell (016), for example


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## Torkelburger

> *I also support the viability of the mode in general, and reject the notion that it's unuseable or inherently sounds bad. I don't think a collection of notes without any context can be called inherently ugly.* It's difficult to use but composition often requires to use igenuity and outside the box solutions. Granted, it's difficult to have tonic be a diminished triad (which can only be done via repetition, drone, or static harmony hat remains entirely in Locrian as there's no way to tonicize a diminished chord by cadential resolution. But I have heard people take this approach and make it sound good!), but this is viewing the Locrian mode through the narrow lens of traditional, by the book functional harmony. We've been liberated fron functional harmony for over a century so why is the Locrian mode so useless then? For example, I've found that Locrian can be used well over quartal harmony to circumvent the problem of the tonal center being an unstable diminished triad.


I agree 100%. Very good point. It's a very distinctive mode and can sound quite colorful and even pretty when played on a harp for example. Melodically and harmonically.

And the best way to avoid the problem of the "unstable" tonic, is to *omit the fifth degree completely* (the flatted fifth that creates the diminished triad) when you want to use the tonic chord at a cadence, etc. and need it to be "stable". Just double the root and/or third, whatever the situation and voice-leading calls for, and it should sound final, stable, etc. It will have a "minor" sound since it is a minor third. That way it won't sound "diminished". Try it out. You should be good to go.


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## Roger Knox

Fauré - String Quartet: 2nd movement, opening melody. It is exact A Locrian Mode (Vln.1, range a'-a").
Debussy - Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: Interlude (2nd movement), opening melody. It is exact C Locrian Mode (Fl., range f'-f" with c" as centre).


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## Doublestring

The old modes were based on the quint finalis-tenor, the forerunner of tonic-dominant, so Locrian was impossible. There are fragments of Debussy, Bartok and Shostakovich (String Quartet No. 8), composers who used modern modality.

However if you omit the fifth that would make it Phrygian.


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## Torkelburger

Doublestring said:


> The old modes were based on the quint finalis-tenor, the forerunner of tonic-dominant, so Locrian was impossible. There are fragments of Debussy, Bartok and Shostakovich (String Quartet No. 8), composers who used modern modality.
> 
> However if you omit the fifth that would make it Phrygian.


No, it doesn't. I said omit the fifth when you simply write the tonic chord at a cadence. That doesn't make it Phrygian.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

Torkelburger said:


> No, it doesn't. I said omit the fifth when you simply write the tonic chord at a cadence. That doesn't make it Phrygian.


A good way to put this into practice I've found is using a dimished 7th as the dominant instead of a V chord so that the Locrian colour of the flat 5 isn't washed away by shoehorning a natural 5 in the V chord. After the cadence, one can play a flat 5 to reinforce the Locrian.


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## pianozach

*'Army of Me'* by *Björk* and '_*Juicebox'*_ by *The Strokes* dabble in Locrian.


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