# Eric Coates



## Sid James

*Eric Coates* was undoubtedly one of the best English composers of light music during the first half of the C20th.

Coates was born in Hucknall, Nottinghamshire in 1886. He studied viola at the Royal Academy of Music in London from 1906 under the great Lionel Tertis. From 1910 he played in the Queen's Hall Orchestra under Henry Wood, eventually becoming principal violist. After about a decade he left the orchestra to devote his time fully to composition. An early champion of his works was Sir Edward Elgar.

His most memorable works were used by the BBC as signature tunes for programmes and in films, such as the _*Knightsbridge March *_(1933), _*By the Sleepy Lagoon *_(1930, still used to introduce the programme _Desert Island Discs_), and the _*Dam Busters March*_ (1954). He died in Chichester in 1957.

I really like the above three pieces. They have memorable tunes and are very entertaining. Similar in style to Elgar's _Pomp & Circumstance Marches_. He was not a serious composer, but his music was very British nonetheless.


----------



## handlebar

I have three CD's of his music and admire the delightful tunes very much. Sleepy Lagoon is his most popular in my opinion. He was an outstanding conductor as well.
ASV had issued some wonderful CD"s. Check them out.

Thanks for mentioning this underrated composer.

Jim


----------



## Edward Elgar

His music is really the commercial film music of it's day. The producer of the "Dam Busters" film approached him and said, "we need a patriotic theme tune for a war film" and he replied, "I've just composed it". I like the three tunes you mentioned and have them on my mp3 player, but nonetheless, this is music with money in mind, perhaps that's why he is underrated.


----------



## CypressWillow

One of my most-loved songs. I haven't heard much of what Coates wrote, but this I listen to over and over. 
First, in Swedish, by one of Jussi's brothers, Gosta Bjorling:






And then in English, by Thomas Allen:






I know he wrote lots of 'light' music, but this is something I value as serious music.


----------



## Figleaf

^^ That is a lovely performance by Gösta Björling. He is very delicate: ideally I like a bit more muscularity in this music to offset the potential tweeness. It's all about the ardent, passionate heart inside the buttoned-up Edwardian exterior- utterly irresistable! I had a very nice, if also not quite ideal, record of this- a black label Columbia, was it Walter Midgley? Long time ago, I can't remember. There don't seem to be as many recordings of this beautiful song as one would expect, and certainly none by singers with a strong personality to stamp on the music and a believable way with the words- where is John McCormack when we need him? I did find this perfectly competent, inoffensive and utterly forgettable rendition by Stuart Burrows, IMO probably the least charismatic tenor ever recorded:






This brings me to my 25 year long quest to find the perfect recording of 'Bird Songs at Eventide'. Anyone not familiar with the lovely (albeit syrupy) melody can see at once from the title what the problem is: the words are terrible. Normally John McCormack owns this repertoire, but here his remarkable diction is a liability, and for all his wonderfulness, I'm not convinced that he's convinced by the song. Usually he sounds much more committed.






Strangely enough, Richard Tauber (whom I usually find unbearably mannered) fares much better: perhaps it was recorded before he spoke enough English to realise how dire the words are. :devil: This is the best Birdsong I've heard so far, with a gorgeous, shimmering pianissimo at the end:






I wonder if Gösta recorded 'Bird Songs'? I was under the impression that he did, but I can't find it, and I may have been confusing it with 'I Heard You Singing'. As a rule of thumb, any Edwardian song whose lyrics mention either 'eventide' or 'the vale of dreams' benefits from being translated into the most obscure language available- Swedish is as good a choice as any, especially when there are Björlings available to sing it. Anyway, having mostly given up 78 collecting, I was all birdsonged out for years, until yesterday I accidentally came across Tony Poncet's record of the song. Although he sings attractively, he seems to suffer from the same lack of commitment (and unforgivingly clear diction) as John McCormack- perhaps because it's a long way from his core repertoire,or perhaps the problem is that the French lyrics force the singer to stress the wrong words, like _les_ and _dans_ in the phrase _les oiseaux dans le soir_. Still, it's attractively sung (especially the softly sung final note on '_amour_') and not oversentimentalised. I prefer it to Georges Thill's better known recording, which is a bit 'meh'.

Tony Poncet: 




Georges Thill:


----------



## MoonlightSonata

I really need to listen to more Coates. Does anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## Figleaf

MoonlightSonata said:


> I really need to listen to more Coates. Does anyone have any recommendations?


You could start with Coates conducting his own music. As well as being indisputably 'authentic', the vintage sound seems to suit the nature of the music itself, which is so evocative of the 30s England we know from black and white movies. I can't find the Coates CD I have, but I think this recording of the London Again Suite was on it:






Or you could just listen to all the recordings of 'Birdsongs at Eventide' and bring me the best one. 

I'll get me Coates...


----------



## Headphone Hermit

Sid James said:


> *Eric Coates* was undoubtedly one of the best English composers of light music during the first half of the C20th.
> 
> He was *not a serious composer*, but his music was very British nonetheless.


Although I am not a pasionate advocate of the music of Coates (or similar 'light' music of the mid C20th) I'm surprised that Sid got away with this.

I personally don't appreciate this genre of music - I recognise the catchy, simple tunes can be appealing but I care nothing for nostalgia for the 1930s in Britain. This was the time when my grandfather was a dock worker who had to walk to the docks twice a day to seek work that was poorly paid, dangerous and unpleasant - a full week's work was a luxury for him and, like most dockers of the time, any work was obtained through the discretion of (and payment of a backhander to) the foreman. The world of Bertie Wooster and 'light music' was not one that connects much to me.


----------



## Delicious Manager

Headphone Hermit said:


> Although I am not a pasionate advocate of the music of Coates (or similar 'light' music of the mid C20th) I'm surprised that Sid got away with this.
> 
> I personally don't appreciate this genre of music - I recognise the catchy, simple tunes can be appealing but I care nothing for nostalgia for the 1930s in Britain. This was the time when my grandfather was a dock worker who had to walk to the docks twice a day to seek work that was poorly paid, dangerous and unpleasant - a full week's work was a luxury for him and, like most dockers of the time, any work was obtained through the discretion of (and payment of a backhander to) the foreman. The world of Bertie Wooster and 'light music' was not one that connects much to me.


What an odd thing to say. If one examined the times around the composition of most music, one could find plenty of examples of hardship, social injustice and early demise; one surely has to separate the music from the social context - unless the two are designed to relate to one another. I am no real fan of light music either, but make no mistake about the degree of skill and talent it takes to write these seemingly effortless trifles. One earlier comment about this music being more about money than art was also a little strange. Light music is about entertainment and little more. Composers have to eat and live as much as anyone else and so what is wrong with earning a healthy living if one can deliver such gems?


----------



## Figleaf

Headphone Hermit said:


> Although I am not a pasionate advocate of the music of Coates (or similar 'light' music of the mid C20th) I'm surprised that Sid got away with this.
> 
> I personally don't appreciate this genre of music - I recognise the catchy, simple tunes can be appealing but *I care nothing for nostalgia for the 1930s in Britain. This was the time when my grandfather was a dock worker who had to walk to the docks twice a day to seek work that was poorly paid, dangerous and unpleasant - a full week's work was a luxury for him and, like most dockers of the time, any work was obtained through the discretion of (and payment of a backhander to) the foreman. The world of Bertie Wooster and 'light music' was not one that connects much to me.*


I think I understand what you are saying, and this kind of nostalgia is indeed problematic for those of us who are politically engaged and/or have heard older family members tell of traumatic times during the 1930s depression. (My own family were in rural East Anglia and, with farm work presumably still available and access to cottage gardens and so forth, probably avoided the worst of what the urban working class had to endure- though doubtless I don't know the half of it.) I suppose that, bearing in mind the dire condition of the poorest classes through most of history that Delicious Manager mentions, one must distinguish between history, art, and fantasy. 'History'- the social context of the work, the lived experience of our own family and our own class at the time of the works' composition- is more or less self explanatory, 'art' ( in the widest, most commonly accepted sense of the word) is something we should be able to apply even to 'light' music without too much difficulty, but I think it's the 'fantasy' element that provides the nostalgia, and it's not (or at least not purely) an insensitive, inappropriate nostalgia for the 30s Britain of hunger marches and the Road to Wigan Pier. Rather, it's a nostalgia which is baked into the music itself. Coates' music, mostly dating from the 20s and 30s, preserves a turn of the century feeling , the zeitgeist of the period in which the young violist musically came of age. It's particularly apparent in the songs: we can see how lyricist Royden Barrie's diction (such as the 'vale of dreams' in 'I heard you singing' which I complained about earlier) preserves the tropes of the late Victorian/ Edwardian parlour song which was perhaps no longer quite fashionable but still rampantly popular in the 20s and 30s. So, we have not just a fantasy recreation or continuation of a genre from a slightly earlier era but a fantasy of a fantasy, since English middle class culture (of which that parlour song genre is an excellent example) is intrinsically fantasy-based, being simultaneously driven by aspiration towards something better, nostalgia for something half-remembered and fear of a future which may not be as kind to one's own class as the present. (Wodehouse, whom you mention, is also the inventor of a fantasy world much further removed from reality than anything dreamed up by Coates and Barrie: he is the equal of Terry Pratchett, his successor in surreal-ness and joyously absurd wordplay, in that respect. While Wodehouse was by no means a man of the left, and it would not take much ingenuity to paint the Wooster novels as an apology for a corrupt and iniquitous social order, I don't think that he would have enjoyed anything like the popularity he still enjoys if his novels were in any way a true reflection of the life of the English upper classes, or even intended to be taken as such.)

So, while Coates may have been commercially driven, musically reactionary, and very much an Establishment figure, it would be a shame to reject his music on those grounds, just as it would be a shame to reject Shakespeare's history plays just because they seem to celebrate the English monarchy. Coates is of course no Shakespeare (and Royden Barrie certainly wasn't!) and he needs to be saved not just from left wing critiques of his bourgeois music but from a certain kitschy decadence intrinsic to the music itself, which frustratingly obscures the qualities of beauty and fundamental sincerity which I believe can also be found there if one cares to look. This is at the root of my quest for the perfect performance of Coates' songs: they are not (or not just) some manipulative, 'strange how potent cheap music is' piece of hackwork, but they capture a deeply moving sense of yearning (for want of a less naff word). If you don't believe me about the merit of Coates' songs, just play the video of Gösta Björling: like his celebrated brother, he's not perfect, but he's often the closest thing we have!


----------



## Headphone Hermit

Delicious Manager said:


> What an odd thing to say. ?


indeed  - I meant I didn't care for the nostalgia aspect (as Figleaf suggests) but it *is* an odd comment because I don't make any such connection with most of the rest of the music I listen to. I guess it is an element of the subconscious to make such connections sometimes



Delicious Manager said:


> make no mistake about the degree of skill and talent it takes to write these seemingly effortless trifles.


yup - I don't dispute this



Delicious Manager said:


> Composers have to eat and live as much as anyone else and so what is wrong with earning a healthy living if one can deliver such gems


you are right - I have no axe to grind here


----------



## Guest

I wonder how many people mix him up with Gloria Coates?


----------



## Headphone Hermit

^^^^ as I'd not heard of Gloria, it wouldn't be me. 

More likely to be thought to be a relative of Albert Coates, a well-known English conductor who was roughly comtemporaneous


----------



## ptr

Kontrapunctus said:


> I wonder how many people mix him up with Gloria Coates?


If You do, then You have no sense of history at all! :guitar:

/ptr


----------



## Steve Kirby

MoonlightSonata said:


> I really need to listen to more Coates. Does anyone have any recommendations?


I strongly recommend the 2-disc set "The Music of Eric Coates" on the Classics for Pleasure label. All the tracks are in stereo. The conductors are Sir Charles Groves, Sir Charles Mackerras and Reginald Kilbey - say no more!.. NB this is currently available from Amazon.


----------



## Wood

I used to have this CD, but being young and lacking in confidence I was mortified by the album cover, so kept the thing hidden until I eventually ditched it. Coates has the honour of being the only classical composer whose work I have jettisoned.










:lol:


----------



## Figleaf

Wood said:


> I used to have this CD, but being young and lacking in confidence I was mortified by the album cover, so kept the thing hidden until I eventually ditched it. Coates has the honour of being the only classical composer whose work I have jettisoned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


I would have kept it prominently displayed on the dresser next to my Charles and Di royal wedding commemorative mug.  (Although ironic retro royal worship is less funny now that the real thing is resurgent...)


----------



## Badinerie

I love Eric Coates, but I admit that's a terrible cd cover. That's definitely the Queen Mums "Only one more royal visit and I can get to that bottle of gin" Smile.


----------



## Delicious Manager

ptr said:


> If You do, then You have no sense of history at all! :guitar:
> 
> /ptr


... or any ears!


----------



## Wood

Figleaf said:


> I would have kept it prominently displayed on the dresser next to my Charles and Di royal wedding commemorative mug.  (Although ironic retro royal worship is less funny now that the real thing is resurgent...)


And I would have put my Anne and Mark wedding mug next to yours (once I've cleaned out 40 years worth of detritus because of it being used for cleaning paint brushes after decorating).

Badi, that was funny. :lol:


----------



## Sid James

Last month, AClockworkOrange made the following two posts on the Current Listening thread. I think these provided excellent coverage of Eric Coates' music, and am reposting them here (with kind permission from AClockworkOrange).



AClockworkOrange said:


> *Eric Coates: Orchestral Works, Volume 1
> John Wilson & the BBC Philharmonic*
> - The Merrymakers (A Miniature Overture)
> - The Jester at the Wedding (Ballet Suite)
> - Dancing Nights
> - Ballad, Op.2 (for String Orchestra)
> - Two Symphonic Rhapsodies
> - By the Sleepy Lagoon
> - London (London Everyday - Suite for Orchestra)
> 
> Eric Coates' music is a recent discovery. I discovered this Composer by chance via a Naxos release featuring Andrew Penney and the Slovak Radio forces on my streaming platform. I bought said disc as well as both volumes of Orchestral Works conducted by John Wilson with the BBC Philharmonic.
> 
> So far, this disc is an excellent listen, "The Merrymakers" making a good introduction before moving on to "The Jester at the Wedding" suite which is particularly enjoyable and absorbing. "Dancing Nights" continues in a very positive vein.
> 
> As with my previous listening of Malcolm Sargent's Holst - his interpretation of Beni Mora making a very positive impression - this is my first listen to this disc. If what I have heard so far is indicative of the whole disc, it will be going into rotation in my listening.





AClockworkOrange said:


> *Eric Coates: British Light Music, Volume 4
> Andrew Penny & the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra, Kenneth Edge* (Saxophone)*
> - By the Sleepy Lagoon
> - Springtime Suite
> - Saxo-Rhapsody*
> - Footlights Waltz
> - Four Ways Suite
> - The Eighth Army March
> - Lazy Night
> - Last Love
> - High Flight March
> 
> My final listening tonight is the album which introduced me to the music of Eric Coates. When I found this album on my streaming platform, I listened to it three times over two days before making the decision to purchase it along with the John Wilson recordings. The only doubling of works are "By the Sleepy Lagoon" and "Lazy Night" so between the three discs I have a fairly broad range of Coates' Orchestral Works.
> 
> One particular piece on this disc which has caught my ear is the Saxo-Rhapsody. I haven't heard a great deal of Saxophone in this genre and I quite enjoyed this piece.
> 
> The two Suites are also very interesting, both the Spring Time Suite and the Four Ways Suite offer a great deal of variety and quality in quite compact forms.
> 
> As with the Wilson/BBC Philharmonic recordings, this disc is an excellent collection of music. The Slovak Radio Symphony sound excellent. My only prior knowledge of the Conductor, Andrew Penny, is from his excellent collection of Malcolm Arnold Symphonies and he doesn't disappoint here.


----------

