# Piano Sonata no. 2: Progress Thread



## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

So I have decided to write a piano sonata in A major. My main inspiring composer for this sonata is Mozart.

I do have some difficulties writing the exposition of a sonata, more specifically the closing theme. Often I feel as though the closing theme should be shorter than any other theme but as I try to write the closing theme, it feels incomplete and once the exposition repeats, it feels jarring.

So far I have the first theme down, not sure yet how I am going to transition to the second theme.

Here is what the first theme looks like so far








And here is what it sounds like
View attachment Piano Sonata no. 2.mp3


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I think the rhythm to the melody for the first 3 bars should be varied a bit more. It sounds a bit mechanical. The scale runs remind me a lot of the Sonata in C K545. I think it's a good exercise though to get you to start exploring some techniques. The trill seems to go a bit for too long.


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

So as always when I write a sonata, I get the first theme down fast but I have trouble with writing the second theme. I know I want the second theme to be in E major. And I want to have a bouncy feeling to the sonata which so far I have achieved using dotted rhythms and scales. Staccato would be a perfect addition as a second theme and would reinforce the bouncy feeling of the sonata. But I have no idea what to do as far as melody and harmony is concerned. I don't know why but I always reach a composer's block with the second theme.

Here are the things I have thought about doing:


Melody in left hand(Too fugal in my opinion for this sonata, would do it though if I wanted to get across a feeling of uncertainty)
Alberti Bass with a twist(Would probably sound like I transposed the left hand, plus I can't do alberti bass at 120 bpm for all that long if it is 16ths(which it is in my sonata), otherwise I feel the burn in my hand)
Staccato(Bouncy, but how can I get expression out of it? It isn't as variable as legato is)


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## lachlan1415 (Jul 30, 2018)

Hey, this is interesting. I can definitely sense the inspiration of mozart. Just try not to copy him too much, I can definitely hear traces of mozart's k. 545 sonata (the scales) . Also, I think you should just go along with what your mind is thinking, instead of telling yourself "I'm going to modulate to e major by the second subject" just go with the flow and write whatever comes down to mind. I used to do a lot of the planning and I never got any of my good ideas down because of how I was trying to "force" my music in one direction, instead of going for what's best. I do think it is a good start though. I do want to see the full length of this sonata.


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

*Not sure what key to have the closing theme in*

Okay so I looked at my 2 books of piano sonatas and I see this as far as the key of the closing theme(ending chord to be more specific) and the rest of the exposition:


*Composer**First Theme**Second Theme**Closing Theme*HaydnTonicDominantEqually likely to be in the tonic and the dominantMozartTonicDominantAlways in the dominantBeethovenTonicDominantMost of the time in the dominant but sometimes in the tonic

This makes me wonder what key I should have the closing theme in. Since the second theme is in E major, this tells me to keep it in E major. But I don't really know if I should have that in E major. I mean my closing theme + the transition(which some might argue is part of the second theme) will probably be just as long as the first theme. My second theme is, at least currently only 7 measures long. There does come a point where if you stay in a key long enough, it gets tonicized and the original tonic is not the tonic anymore. With C major and C minor, this is nothing to really worry about. But with A major and E major, suddenly A major becomes the subdominant even though it is the original tonic and so you have to retonicize A major to make it not be jarring(plagal cadences from IV to I are not all that common, especially nowadays).


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Classical (aka 1760-early 1800) closing themes are almost always in the dominant key. I personally have never seen one in the tonic. However, you live in the 21st Century. You can use any key you like.


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## MarkMcD (Mar 31, 2014)

Hi Caters,

The thing I noticed more than anything is that bars 3 to 8 seem to be almost exact copies of Mozart k545. I think it's fine to be influenced by other composers, most of us are, but I would try hard not to "copy" whole passages. I'm sure it wasn't a conscious decision to do that, but take a look at the k545 sonata right after the opening theme of the first movement and see what you think.


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## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

Pianists can use more than 4 fingers at once, you know.


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

E Cristobal Poveda said:


> Pianists can use more than 4 fingers at once, you know.


Yes, I know, its just whenever I am composing, because I have hands for which an octave is the longest interval that is comfortable, and a 9th is the longest interval I can reach, those are my limits. And while yes, I have written 10ths in my compositions before, unless the notes are on separate staves, I compromise by having 1 of the notes go down an octave or by having both notes come towards each other to make a 6th interval.


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