# Music for wind orchestra



## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

How many of you are familiar with music for wind orchestra?

I'm a clarinet player and have also found symphony orchestras very restrictive. Strings, especially violins, saturate the soundscape whereas wind orchestras offer much greater scope for woodwind players.

Since the 50s there's been an outpouring of music for wind orchestra. Composers such as Nigel Hess, Philip Sparke and even Eric Whitacre have written works for wind.

Living in England I've played in several wind orchestras at school, music school, university and music courses. Every half decent wind player in the U.K. has played the music of Nigel Hess and Philip Sparke at some point but it's not known outside wind orchestra circles of which there are few.

I've heard many people dismiss wind orchestral music because it doesn't contain strings.

What are your feelings?

Have you heard of any wind orchestral music?

More interestingly, if you are not a wind player have you listened to any wind orchestral music?

If you are a wind player, what are your thoughts?

The videos below are some of my favourite pieces - what do you think?

Music for a Festival - Philip Sparke






October - Eric Whitacre






New London Pictures - Nigel Hess


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

One of my favorites is much more classic, Hindemith's zany Symphony in B flat for wind band. Eastman does a dynamite recording on vinyl. I am also fond of the two suits by Holst.

If I recall correctly, arpeggio here knows a tremendous amount about this genre and has performed it for decades.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

John Williams wrote some pieces for winds.

His early Sinfonietta.






His concert arrangement called Scherzo fo X-wings.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm a fan of this kind of music, as shouldn't be surprising from my moniker. Ingolf Dahl's Sinfonietta and Paul Creston's Celebration Overture are two that I enjoy.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

There are several wind and band junkies around here.

I am an amateur bassoonist and I perform with two community groups.

There have been a few threads dedicated to wind and band music. I know I have submitted several posts on the music of Philip Spark.

We are lucky that in Washington is the home of the US Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Bands. These groups also support chamber orchestras. There concerts are free. Today my wife and I will be attending a recital featuring members of the US Navy Band.

I have submitted a few hundred posts. One can do a search of arpeggio and the keyword band to access them.

Some of my posts:

http://www.talkclassical.com/41486-works-attaining-age-50-a.html#post995816

http://www.talkclassical.com/40523-modern-composers-composing-tonal.html?highlight=band#post964732

http://www.talkclassical.com/39887-your-top-5ive-living-2.html?highlight=band#post942149

http://www.talkclassical.com/22354-concert-band-thread-2.html#post886341 I was at this performance.

http://www.talkclassical.com/23100-do-composers-have-any-2.html?highlight=Camphouse#post399371

http://www.talkclassical.com/34178-canadas-soul-classical-music.html?highlight=band#post725645

Awesome performance of the US Navy Band:


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm not a wind player myself, though my sister-in-law plays just about every single-reed instrument known to humanity. One composer who comes to mind as a prolific writer for wind ensembles is Malcolm Arnold. It might also be worth browsing Percy Grainger, who produced small-ensemble arrangements of a lot of his works.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I don't have much familiarity with the wind ensemble repertoire but not for lack of interest although my exposure has been more along the lines of RVW, Holst, Gordon Jacob, etc.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm not a wind player myself, though my sister-in-law plays just about every single-reed instrument known to humanity. One composer who comes to mind as a prolific writer for wind ensembles is Malcolm Arnold. It might also be worth browsing Percy Grainger, who produced small-ensemble arrangements of a lot of his works.


Many of Malcolm Arnold's orchestral works have been successfully transcribe for concert band. As a result many have the impression that they were originally concert band works.

To my knowledge the only original works he composed were for brass bands:

The three _Little Suites for Brass Band_
_Fantasy for Brass Band
Symphony for Brass Instruments, Op. 123_

I have performed several of the transcriptions including the _The Scottish Dances and The Tam o' Shanter Overture_. These works were transcribed for band by John P. Paynter.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

clavichorder said:


> One of my favorites is much more classic, Hindemith's zany Symphony in B flat for wind band. Eastman does a dynamite recording on vinyl. I am also fond of the two suits by Holst.
> 
> If I recall correctly, arpeggio here knows a tremendous amount about this genre and has performed it for decades.


Holst's suites are classic in every sense. So much fun to play and there's the 1st mvmt euphonium solo which is gorgeous and rare! Although they were very early examples of wind orchestral works, before it began to carve out its own style, distinct from the other classical music of the time.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Dismissing "wind orchestra" music (or "band music", as we call it here in Texas) merely because it doesn't have strings is just as intelligent as somebody else who dismisses strings-only music like Strauss' Metamorphosen or Vaughan Williams' Tallis Fantasia.

I used to be a band director for 15 years, but I have also been playing in orchestras (as a clarinetist) ever since I was 14 (in 1980, there, I just revealed my age for everybody), professionally since 1991. (It's a minor, regional orchestra that's never recorded anything, but we have tackled a bit of Mahler here and there among other similar "Mount Everest" challenges.)

So what I'm getting at is that I've been exposed to both sides of the coin for most of my life.

Playing clarinet in an orchestra is only "restrictive" if your conductor is selecting music that never gives the winds a chance to show what you can do. I sincerely hope that's not the case, because your concerts would be really boring after a while. On the other hand, if your conductor is picking music that does allow you chances to play (especially any repertoire from Beethoven and moving forward from there), then an orchestra can actually be a MORE rewarding experience than a wind band/orchestra, because you get the clarinet part all to yourself instead of having to share it with a whole bunch of other clarinet players who are as likely as not to obscure whatever individual nuances that you would like to put on the part. I actually find wind band/orchestra playing very frustrating in that regard, as if I could turn to the other clarinet players and tell them to shut up so I can play the part right.

(I'm first chair everywhere I play, plus I also won a number of competitions when I was younger, like the International Clarinet Society's annual competition, plus I sat first chair all the way through college at the University of Oklahoma (no small program there, mind you), and I was also first chair in my All-State organizations, so I guess it's safe to say that I'm a better clarinet player than most other people are, so when I feel like the other clarinet players need to shut up and get out of my way, there's a good reason for it. And if this all sounds terribly arrogant, then I'm sorry, but it's simply the facts. If that makes me "arrogant", then it wouldn't be the first time the accusation was aimed at me.)

So moving on from there to repertoire, I see the standards have already been mentioned (Holst and Ralph Vaughan Williams), but I would also add a large amount of wind band writing by Percy Grainger, as well as an American composer named Ron Nelson. (And you also might not realize that "Um Mitternacht" from Mahler's Rückert-Lieder entirely leaves out the strings, so it's a song by Mahler for alto, winds, and percussion only.)

Now, as for expanding your listening repertoire, one easy thing you can do is get on Amazon and type in "Dallas Wind Symphony". That will immediately bring up a rather impressive list of CDs recorded by the Dallas Wind Symphony, which is a professional wind band/orchestra in the Dallas, TX area. There are many people who consider them to be the finest wind band in America (although I suspect the US Marine Band might have something to say about it.)

But regardless, you'l find a rather extensive list of recordings they've made, and I can assure you from owning most of them myself that you won't find a bad one in the lot. Their quality of performance and also the quality of recording sound is uniformly excellent throughout.

Or you might also try putting "Royal Northern College of Music Wind Orchestra" in an Amazon search as well. I'm not as familiar with the Royal Northern College of Music Wind Orchestra as I am with the Dallas Wind Symphony, but I do own a few recordings of the Royal Northern College of Music Wind Orchestra, and they are all every bit as excellent as their counterparts in Dallas. The Royal Northern College of Music Wind Orchestra records for Chandos label, so considering that label's reputation for demonstration quality sound, I'm confident you won't need to have any hesitation about the quality of their albums.

And then, of course, there is always the redoubtable Eastman Wind Ensemble...

Hopefully this'll be enough to give you something to work with.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

arpeggio said:


> There are several wind and band junkies around here.
> 
> I am an amateur bassoonist and I perform with two community groups.
> 
> There have been a few threads dedicated to wind and band music. I know I have submitted several posts on the music of Philip Spark.


That's so great, I had no idea. I tried searching for wind band music on talkclassical but it didn't seem to come up with anything.

I love Philip Sparke! His Music for a festival was the first original wind band piece I remember playing and connecting with. His music is so lively and colourful.

I'll check out your other posts too, thanks!


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

Hi dsphipps, thank you for your contribution.

I'm already familiar with a huge amount of wind band works -Sparke, Gorb, Woolfenden, Nigel Clarke, Hess, Smith, everything that the Tokyo Kosei Wind Orchestra has ever performed and likewise I'm familiar with Dallas Wind, RNCM and Tim Reynish. I used to play with the National Youth Wind Ensemble of Great Britain.

I own the Chandos label recording of Hess's New London Pictures, it really is exquisitely recorded. 

Have you heard the Twisted Skyscape album from last year? First album of woodwind orchestra - Adam Gorb, Philip Sparke, Gary Carpenter and Christopher Hussey - utterly gorgeous.

Thank you for your ideas, I really want wind orchestral music to be more widely known. I know a lot about it and love it and I really want others to experience it and love it too. Everyone else reading this thread do let me know what you think of wind music


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

What do you think of the pieces I posted above? They're from very important figures in wind band music and are a good start to gauge the type of music wind ensembles perform.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

Becca said:


> I don't have much familiarity with the wind ensemble repertoire but not for lack of interest although my exposure has been more along the lines of RVW, Holst, Gordon Jacob, etc.


What do you think of the pieces I posted above? They're from very important figures in wind band music and are a good start to gauge the type of music wind ensembles perform.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes I have heard large wind band - student - orchestras play and I have generally enjoyed them.

A friend of mine told me how when he was a teen - his parents bought him an LP - he had asked for orchestral and they gave him K361 - grand partita. He was rather let down - after all 13 wind instruments! No brass violins etc. But he told me after hearing it he was just blown away.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

I decided that I'd throw in a couple of samples of the Dallas Wind Symphony just to "whet your appetite".









Here is Alfred Reed's "Russian Christmas Music", which is my 2nd-favorite "band" composition of all time:

View attachment 81452


(Don't let the "Christmas" part of the title throw you off or the Santa Claus cover photo embedded in the mp3 file. Alfred Reed wrote it using liturgical melodies from the Russian Orthodox Church's Christmas season, so none of it will sound "Christmasy" to our western ears. It'll simply sound like great music.)

And then, here is the Dallas Wind Symphony's recording of Walton's Crown Imperial, which is my favorite "band" composition of all time:

View attachment 81451


I should warn you that, for Crown Imperial, they add the massive 4,535 pipe C.B. Fisk Opus 100 organ in Dallas' Meyerson Symphony Hall, where the Dallas Symphony Orchestra performs and many of the world's orchestras come to play on tour since the Meyerson is one of the world's great concert halls.

I'll wager that when Prince William and Kate Middleton used Crown Imperial as the recessional for their wedding, it didn't sound this good.









After hearing these two pieces, I would simply say....WHO NEEDS STRINGS??????????










(Er, well, I guess Mahler might have an answer for that.............)

Anyway, hopefully this'll whet your appetite for the Dallas Wind Symphony.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Elizabeth de Brito said:


> Have you heard the Twisted Skyscape album from last year? First album of woodwind orchestra - Adam Gorb, Philip Sparke, Gary Carpenter and Christopher Hussey - utterly gorgeous.


I'm not familiar with that album, no. I'll head over to Amazon and check it out right now.









Edit: Or no, I won't, since I see they have their own website. Thanks again.









OK, I ordered it and it's on its way.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Welcome dsphipps100. Yeah! A band junkie who knows more than I do!!!!!!!! We need more band junkies.

As far as Marine Band vs. Dallas Wind Symphony? What can I say.

I lived in Fairfax county just outside of Washington and I hear the service bands all of the time.

I just attended a recital presented by members of the US Navy Band. One of the works they performed was the Janacek _Mladi_. Outstanding performance.

I have the Dallas Wind Symphony Recording of the Maslanka _A Child's Garden of Dreams_. I recently heard the Marine Band perform it. Where the Marine Band had the edge over Dallas was in the performance of the "Fourth Movement". The Marines were far better at maintaining the quality of their sounds with those long sustained passages. The oboists was outstanding.

One of the works they performed was _Ascension_ by the young Welsh Composer Tom Davoren: http://www.tomdavoren.co.uk/. He is a big band composer in Great Britain. _Ascension_ is a work for solo trumpet, euphonium and wind ensemble. Mr. Davoren was at the concert. Even though his works have been performed by some of the top bands in England, he claims that the performance of the Marine Band was the best he ever heard.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Vincent Persichetti's Sixth Symphony was written for band.

If I was a wind player looking for expanded wind music, I would chuck everything else and learn Mozart's Serenade No. 10 for 13 Wind Instruments.

One of the greatest works ever composed!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Try Myaskovsky's Symphony no. XIX for military band (though I love the string transcription of the middle movement he did in 1946).
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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

arpeggio said:


> Welcome dsphipps100. Yeah! A band junkie who knows more than I do!!!!!!!! We need more band junkies.
> 
> As far as Marine Band vs. Dallas Wind Symphony? What can I say.
> 
> ...


Wow, I bet it was excellent indeed.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

I know very little about wind bands, but as a wind player some of the most fun I've had has been playing wind chamber music. So why not beg borrow and steal some parts (or use IMSLP), get a quintet or octet (or whatever group you want) together and have a toot! Or just begin exploring the repertoire


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I used to play in a woodwind quintet. That is how I discovered the music of Reicha and Danzi.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Vincent Persichetti's Sixth Symphony was written for band.
> 
> If I was a wind player looking for expanded wind music, I would chuck everything else and learn Mozart's Serenade No. 10 for 13 Wind Instruments.
> 
> One of the greatest works ever composed!


Ugh no! Everyone knows Mozart. Tired and boring!


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

dgee said:


> I know very little about wind bands, but as a wind player some of the most fun I've had has been playing wind chamber music. So why not beg borrow and steal some parts (or use IMSLP), get a quintet or octet (or whatever group you want) together and have a toot! Or just begin exploring the repertoire


Hi, did you read the post at the beginning? check out the 3 pieces on video that I posted. these are some of the best examples of wind band music.

Okay, wind chamber music has existed for centuries but the wind orchestra only began properly developing its' own unique style in the 1950s due to the legend that is Frederick Fennell and the Eastman Wind Ensemble. They commissioned tons of new works and all the composers that were sick of the atonal, serialist, avant garde direction that contemporary classical music was going in flocked to compose kick *** new pieces for wind ensemble with greater melodies, opportunities for all wind and brass instruments to shine, and giving the sax a place which it has never really had in symphony orchestras. Perschetti, Philip Sparke, Nigel Hess, Alfred Reed, Charles Young are just a few composers that concentrate on wind band.

Wind orchestras also developed from the need for more music. In the last century more people were learning instruments, espeically wind instruments and while DSPhipps has spoken of the value of playing in orchestras, there still are only 2 of each instrument in an orchestra, so there were lots of people choosing to learn clarinet, flute, trumpet et al needing opportunities to play and develop their skills.

Nowadays every half decent wind player in the US and UK will have played Philip Sparke at least once in their career, whether at school, college or an adult community band. But look at you all, talking about chamber music and Mozart. It's great but everyone already knows this kind of stuff. half of you don't know what kind of music I'm really talking about! - this new sub genre of classical is cool, tuneful, catchy, brilliant arrangements and much more evenly divided amongst sections than orchestras, fairly often anyway.

I love it, I've played in the National Youth Wind Ensemble of Great Britain and lots of other brilliant wind bands including at Junior Guildhall and Harpenden Musicale. I want more people to know about it, not just wind players but the wider classical sphere too.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

dsphipps100 said:


> I decided that I'd throw in a couple of samples of the Dallas Wind Symphony just to "whet your appetite".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

Becca said:


> I don't have much familiarity with the wind ensemble repertoire but not for lack of interest although my exposure has been more along the lines of RVW, Holst, Gordon Jacob, etc.


In my first post I put some of my favourite wind band pieces. Much more recent and very cool. Listen to those and let me know what you think!

Holst 2nd Suite for military band is very cool though.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

DSPhipps what is your 1st favourite band composition then?


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Elizabeth de Brito said:


> How many of you are familiar with music for wind orchestra?
> 
> I'm a clarinet player and have also found symphony orchestras very restrictive. Strings, especially violins, saturate the soundscape whereas wind orchestras offer much greater scope for woodwind players.
> 
> ...


Didn't care for them.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Elizabeth de Brito said:


> DSPhipps what is your 1st favourite band composition then?


Crown Imperial. (Yes, yes, I know, everybody, it was originally written for orchestra, but I prefer the band version, so get over it.







)

If you look again at the post where I first posted the Dallas Wind Symphony samples, you'll see where I mentioned that Crown Imperial is my favorite.


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

poconoron said:


> Didn't care for them.


Any reason? The answer 'they didn't have strings' is not acceptable. joking, kind of.:lol:


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

dsphipps100 said:


> Crown Imperial. (Yes, yes, I know, everybody, it was originally written for orchestra, but I prefer the band version, so get over it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah I apologise, I have doing this on my ipad all day so can't always see the previous page and posts, it's not as easy as being on a computer. Anyway, good choice although it is an arrangement of an orchestral piece, would Alfred Reed be your favourite original work then?


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Elizabeth de Brito said:


> would Alfred Reed be your favourite original work then?


I suppose so, yes.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I need new glasses for certain. I read the thread as "music for weird orchestra" and got all excited.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Deleted by author


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## njk345 (Feb 14, 2016)

One composer I highly recommend is Johan De Meiji - he's written a number of pieces for winds and even brass band, my favorite of which is actually a rather unique piece - a euphonium concerto named the "UFO Concerto" in 5 parts. There are some great recordings on youtube with renowned euphonium player David Childs


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

njk345 said:


> One composer I highly recommend is Johan De Meiji - he's written a number of pieces for winds and even brass band, my favorite of which is actually a rather unique piece - a euphonium concerto named the "UFO Concerto" in 5 parts. There are some great recordings on youtube with renowned euphonium player David Childs


Ah yes I love Johan De Meij! I haven't heard his UFO concerto though, I will check it out. I love the T bone concerto, have you heard that?


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

I suppose Holst is incredibly famous, but I got to play his Suite in E-Flat a number of times (on bassoon), and I really liked it every single time.

I haven't been in band in a few years (if you'd believe it, one of the times I played Suite in E-Flat was on an orchestra trip, where we split off the winds for a little concert), I admittedly do miss it. However, I can't say that the symphony orchestra setting has ever really bothered me. Truth is that's where instruments like the bassoon really get to shine.

The university I'm planning on attending in the fall only has a band program, though. I'll get to see how band material treats the oboe, I suppose!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

A good source for information about music for band and wind ensemble is the Wind Repertory Project: http://www.windrep.org/Main_Page


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## Elizabeth de Brito (Feb 10, 2016)

Bands vs. Orchestras or why bands are way cooler – by John Mackey

“If you’re a composer who grew up wanting to write orchestra music, and you listened to Barber rather than Grainger, you probably start with the attitude that you should be writing orchestra music, and band somehow isn’t the goal. So, you marry Orchestra. Orchestra is hot. Okay, maybe not hot, but at least she’s the kind of hot that you know you should like. At the very least, she’s very pretty. And she’s really, really smart, and speaks, like, seven languages, and she knew everybody (but she only ever wants to talk about Beethoven). But you quickly realize that Orchestra thinks she’s better than you, and she acts like every minute she spends with you is some kind of charity work. You get her gifts, and shower her with attention, but you soon realize that she doesn’t appreciate you at all, and she’s neglectful, and at worst, abusive.

And then one day, you meet Band at a party.

“What do you do?” she asks. “Um, I’m a composer,” you reply, expecting little reaction, but Band lights up and exclaims, “oh my God, that’s HOT! Do you have any music I can play? The newer, the better! Let me get you a drink!”

Band is loud. She’s not quite as pretty as Orchestra, and she’s a bit, shall we say, bigger-boned, but she has that truly “hot” aspect to her that Orchestra never had. And most importantly, Band loves what you do. Whereas it was like pulling teeth to get Orchestra to look at your new music (and if she looked, she was generally not impressed, often comparing you unfavorably to one of her many ex’s — like Dvorak), Band thinks it’s awesome. Band tells you things like “you’re special and perfect and I’ll appreciate you and your music like Orchestra never has, and never will.”

What is Composer supposed to do?! Did I mention how loud and boisterous Band is? (Let’s say she’s a screamer. Totally your type.) You have a blast when you’re with her, and your friends agree that she’s a lot cooler than Orchestra, and they see how she treats you much, much better. How can Composer not be expected to stray?

Luckily for Composer, he figured this out around the age of 30, and not much, much later. He just feels bad for all of the other Composers who haven’t yet caught on and left their dysfunctional, abusive relationships.” – John Mackey


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

I had the pleasure of playing under John Paynter, including some of the music discussed here. A wonderful man and musician. Edit: My comment was in response to arpeggio's comments above about Malcom Arnold and Mr. Paynter's transcriptions for symphonic band (the term I usually see and use for such ensembles).


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Martin Saroch*

We have a new member. His name is Martin Saroch. He is a composer from the Czech Republic. He was composed an excellent work for wind ensemble. Check it out: http://www.talkclassical.com/42313-do-you-think-music.html#post1024795


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