# Glenn Gould's Mozart



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Is the most eccentric, colorful, & unique interpretations of the Sonatas to date.


That is my assertion, debate it!

:tiphat:


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

They are very good! Sehr gut!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Let's say : they are different.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Let's say : they are different.


That they are, probably my favorite eccentric take on the Sonatas. They stand alone in their own league. There are quite a few more normative takes on the Sonatas that I enjoy (Horowitz, Brendel, Krauss).


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> That they are, probably my favorite eccentric take on the Sonatas. They stand alone in their own league. There are quite a few more normative takes on the Sonatas that I enjoy (Horowitz, Brendel, Krauss).


Captain, we could be bothers. :tiphat:


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Just relistened and they may be my favorite versions. They always have so much energy and vigor, even if they weren't supposed to. Also, none of the sonatas are particularly dense or hard to understand, so I think hearing them fast makes them a lot more enjoyable. There's no need to plumb the depths of the Sonata facile, as I saw a person on YouTube say :lol: There are no depths to plumb.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is the most eccentric, colorful, & unique interpretations of the Sonatas to date.
> 
> That is my assertion, debate it!
> 
> :tiphat:


He's worth hearing in the 24th piano concerto, and in the studio K 475. You should also check out his live recordings of sonatas, at Salzburg.

Otherwise the dynamic, motoric approach gets on my nerves. It's not even original - Anthony Newman was doing the same sort of thing.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

mathisdermaler said:


> Just relistened and they may be my favorite versions. They always have so much energy and vigor, even if they weren't supposed to. Also, none of the sonatas are particularly dense or hard to understand, so I think hearing them fast makes them a lot more enjoyable. There's no need to plumb the depths of the Sonata facile, as I saw a person on YouTube say :lol: There are no depths to plumb.


You may not have found the minor key sonatas "dense" so far, but hearing Lipatti in the A minor or Pollini in the C minor Fantasy and Sonata would soon show you what they're really made of. Playing the music like a sewing-machine would also be a travesty of the delicate beauty of pieces like the A major sonata K331 or its F major successor K332. Gould basically disliked this music and I can't help wondering whether some of your comments above suggest that you do too!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> He's worth hearing in the 24th piano concerto, and in the studio K 475. You should also check out his live recordings of sonatas, at Salzburg.
> 
> Otherwise the dynamic, motoric approach gets on my nerves. It's not even original - Anthony Newman was doing the same sort of thing.


I have a couple of recordings of the 24th piano cncerto, one live, which are pretty good. Similarly a sonata live from Saltzberg made before Gould really went off his rocker interpretively. White on earth he recorded the Mozart piano sonatas is quite beyond me. He just seems to want to show them in their worst light to fit in with his ridiculous theory that Mozart died not young enough. They are pretty painful to listen to and I am a Gould fan. But I'm afraid it was one step too far for him. I Schnabel said young people play Mozart because of the notes and older pianists avoid Mozart for what lies behind the notes.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I only heard the Mozart sonata's through Gould's interpretation and the first time I heard them I though that's way too fast, he's mocking Mozart. But since I only heard Gould I can't really compare so does anybody have recommendations for the sonata's? I like a dry recording sound with no reverb, no pianoforte and obviously not as fast as Gould.


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## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

I share many of Gould's opinions, and I think he was maybe one of the top 5 performers of the 20th century. But the Mozart cycle is to me the worst thing he did, or very nearly. Instead of recording more music he liked, he decides to spend a ludicrous amount of time recording music he hates, to show people how bad he thinks Mozart is. And sure enough he gets the point across - makes genuine drama sound like a tacky cartoon (A min 1st mov), obliterates beauty where he thinks it's shallow or overexposed (A maj 1st mov), and so forth.

It's like someone who dislikes chocolate started a website of chocolate reviews, where they write scathing reviews about every chocolate bar they can find. The reviews are expertly written, and maybe very funny. Maybe they're so good and witty you could publish them in a book. But ultimately you're wondering if the person could find a better use for their time and literary talent.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

From what I've read Gould was asked by his recording company to go past Bach, hence the Mozart and LvB (incomplete) sonata cycles. Listening to his Mozart it's obvious that he just wants to get it out of the way. The limited dynamic range he uses tends to support this. He was a bit more interesting in Beethoven and his ultra slow version of the the opening movement of the Appassionata still fascinates me. It brings out aspects of the music that I hadn't heard or thought about when I was learning how to play it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I thought Gould hated Mozart.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I thought Gould hated Mozart.


He did. :lol: haha!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Myriadi said:


> I share many of Gould's opinions, and I think he was maybe one of the top 5 performers of the 20th century. *But the Mozart cycle is to me the worst thing he did, or very nearly.*


Unless one considers his Beethoven, Brahms or Prokofiev! :lol:


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Animal the Drummer said:


> You may not have found the minor key sonatas "dense" so far, but hearing Lipatti in the A minor or Pollini in the C minor Fantasy and Sonata would soon show you what they're really made of. Playing the music like a sewing-machine would also be a travesty of the delicate beauty of pieces like the A major sonata K331 or its F major successor K332. Gould basically disliked this music and I can't help wondering whether some of your comments above suggest that you do too!


I might listen to those versions you recommended. I love the sonatas Animal, but I don't think any of them are particularly deep.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He did. :lol: haha!


But then again, money makes the world go round.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

He continued playing solo Mozart right up to the end of the 1960s. Has anyone heard this?


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

mathisdermaler said:


> I might listen to those versions you recommended. I love the sonatas Animal, but I don't think any of them are particularly deep.


Fair enough - we can agree to differ about that. The Lipatti should be readily available but I'm afraid you'll be lucky to find the Pollini, a live recording which appeared only briefly on an obscure label called (appropriately enough) Exclusive a good few years ago. Jeno Jando on Naxos does as good a version as I've heard recently, though it doesn't quite have the sheer grit and heft of Pollini's account.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> He did. :lol: haha!


How can anyone who loves classical music hate Mozart?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hpowders said:


> How can anyone who loves classical music hate Mozart?


Because he loved Bach much more.


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## Crystal (Aug 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Because he loved Bach much more.


 Indeed! He loved Bach, hated Mozart!:lol:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Mandryka said:


> He continued playing solo Mozart right up to the end of the 1960s. Has anyone heard this?
> 
> View attachment 96549


Yes I have this


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Gould had this difficult theory that Mozart's earlier works were better than the later ones. He seemed to wSnt yo prove this by playing the late sonatas in a perverse fashion


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Gould had this difficult theory that Mozart's earlier works were better than the later ones. He seemed to wSnt yo prove this by playing the late sonatas in a perverse fashion


It's funny how we try to find truth and objectivity in art when the only truth is, it's good if you like it. You can discuss the objective facts about the music like meter, lyrics, and rhythms and use these facts to compare/contrast different music, but what you enjoy is purely subjective.

I'm so glad I've realized this at my young age, it's takes a lot of stress off my shoulders.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> Unless one considers his Beethoven, Brahms or Prokofiev! :lol:


Yeah. Seems like Gould was an idiot savant. He could play Bach convincingly on piano, but nothing else.

I will never forget his awful Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 that Leonard Bernstein, his conductor, had to apologize for before the performance. Slow and shapeless.

Claudio Arrau and Carlo Maria Giulini showed how a slow Brahms 1 could be magnificent.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Crystal said:


> Indeed! He loved Bach, hated Mozart!:lol:


What a jerk.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

hpowders said:


> Yeah. Seems like Gould was an idiot savant. He could play Bach convincingly on piano, but nothing else.
> 
> I will never forget his awful Brahms Piano Concerto No. 1 that *Leonard Bernstein, his conductor, had to apologize for before the performance. *Slow and shapeless.
> 
> Claudio Arrau and Carlo Maria Giulini showed how a slow Brahms 1 could be magnificent.


Except that in his old age Bernstein conducted an even slower performance with Zinnerman.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Animal the Drummer said:


> You may not have found the minor key sonatas "dense" so far, but hearing Lipatti in the A minor or Pollini in the C minor Fantasy and Sonata would soon show you what they're really made of. Playing the music like a sewing-machine would also be a travesty of the delicate beauty of pieces like the A major sonata K331 or its F major successor K332. *Gould basically disliked this music *and I can't help wondering whether some of your comments above suggest that you do too!


Its is therefore incredible that he played them let alone recorded them. He should have taken Richter's example. When Shostakovich asked him why he didn't play all his preludes and fugues Richter replied, "Why should I play the ones I don't like?"


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Except that in his old age Bernstein conducted an even slower performance with Zinnerman.


Actually only the adagio was slower in Bernstein/Zimerman's version. The First and Third movements were slower in Bernstein/Gould's version. (I have both)


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

I absolutely _adore_ Gould in a lot of repertoire - Bach and Schoenberg above all else - but I cannot stand his Mozart recordings. He doesn't like Mozart's music, he himself said that on various occasions - well, apart from the early sonatas which he apparently liked more than the later ones. His dislike of this repertoire shows in a complete misunderstanding of the idiom.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> He continued playing solo Mozart right up to the end of the 1960s. Has anyone heard this?
> 
> View attachment 96549


This turns out to be very good indeed, incandescent playing and particularly imaginative and successful in K 310. Well worth hearing, better than the studio recordings from 10 years before.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Apart from his more idiosyncratic interpretations I prefer Gould over anyone else I've heard, and even then I like his fast, sometimes "incorrect" tempos; it's the slow ones I don't like (as in sonata no. 11, for instance). At any rate you have to appreciate his superhuman articulation and sense of rhythm.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I thought I'd bring this thread back to the front page for more discussion. I still adore Gould's Mozart the best! It's so interesting and wild, it captures my imagination.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

It's interesting, I don't seem to enjoy his Bach as much as his Mozart.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It's interesting, I don't seem to enjoy his Bach as much as his Mozart.


I agree with you. And I've found that fans of Gould's Bach almost invariably hate his Mozart.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Apart from this fan who loves both equally!:lol:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

For me, Gould's Bach reaches from merely decent (e.g. Italian concerto) to great (e.g. Partitas), Mozart from horrible (Sonata facile) to pretty good (a minor sonata or the last one K 576), Beethoven from horrible (Appassionata) to great (e.g. Variations, concertos 1+2).


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