# Witold Lutosławski



## Sid James

*Witold Lutosławski* (1913 - 1994) was one of the major European composers of the 20th century, and one of the pre-eminent Polish musicians during his last three decades. During his lifetime, Lutosławski earned many international awards and prizes, including the Order of the White Eagle, Poland's highest honour.

During his youth, Lutosławski studied piano and composition in Warsaw. His early works were influenced by Polish folk music. His style demonstrates a wide range of rich atmospheric textures. He began to develop his own characteristic composition techniques in the late 1950s. His music from this period onwards incorporates his own methods of building harmonies from small groups of musical intervals. It also uses aleatory processes, in which the rhythmic coordination of parts is subject to an element of chance. His compositions (of which he was a notable conductor) include *four symphonies*, a *Concerto for Orchestra*, and several instrumental *concertos* and orchestral *song cycles*.

(Above taken from Wikipedia)

I am just beginning to get into the music of Lutoslawski. I recently acquired one of the Naxos Cd's of his music. They have issued several volumes. He had a long life, and his output seems to be very diverse, stretching from the early more folk inspired works, to modernism and later, something that can be called post-modernism. The works on that CD are the _Symphonic Variations_, _Little Suite_, _Symphony No. 2 & Piano Concerto_.

*I'm interested of what works people have heard, and your impressions of his music.*


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## LvB

I don't know nearly as much of Lutoslawski's music as I should, but I will say that I think that the Concerto for Orchestra, which I've heard both live and in recordings, is one of the most exciting orchestral pieces of the mid-20th century. Lutoslawski had a virtuosic sense of color, and in each of the orchestral works with which I am familiar there are all sorts of amazing little details which reward repeated listening. Even in the Concerto his style is already becoming clear; he tends to work with small coloristic elements which expand into larger segments which throw off fresh elements which expand into new segments, all the while building in intensity (the Variations you have are a good short example; _Chain 3_ for orchestra is another). The music is rarely tonal in any conventional sense, but often uses tonal material. I don't know his chamber music at all, but find myself wondering if his approach, which works so brilliantly in larger ensemble music, would be as effective in smaller ones.


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## Sid James

LvB said:


> Lutoslawski had a virtuosic sense of color, and in each of the orchestral works with which I am familiar there are all sorts of amazing little details which reward repeated listening... he tends to work with small coloristic elements which expand into larger segments which throw off fresh elements which expand into new segments, all the while building in intensity...


That's a good description of what goes on in Lutoslawski's music. It's kind of organic. I listened to the _*Piano Concerto *_again last night, and to me, the way he builds up the music from bare bones is a bit like what Bartok did in his night musics in the 3 _Piano Concertos_. But Lutoslawski's _Piano Concerto _ seems to be even more ambigious, tense and sometimes anguished (especially in the few big orchestral climaxes). It's an interesting work and comes from the end of his long career (late 80's). Some critics have said this was one of his more lighter works but to me it seems pretty serious if you listen closely enough.

I haven't heard the _Concerto for Orchestra_, but will be getting it soon...


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## starry

I like Mi-parti from the 70s and his Symphony no3 from the 80s.


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## bdelykleon

I love Lutoslawski, his cello concerto is one of the greatest concertos of the century, a work of uncompromising passion, highbrow and extremelly passionate, great music. The 2nd and 3rd symphonies I like a lot, as well as Bela Bartók in memoriam. But Lutoslawski didn't make only dramatic music, his Danes, the concerto for oboe and harp and hte Venetian Games are very funny and witty music.


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## emiellucifuge

Agreed about the concerto, I like it alot.

I think Witold was one of the more effective users of aleatorism, he still retained some form of sturcture and musicality instead of just random everything.


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> I love Lutoslawski, his cello concerto is one of the greatest concertos of the century, a work of uncompromising passion, highbrow and extremelly passionate, great music. The 2nd and 3rd symphonies I like a lot, as well as Bela Bartók in memoriam. But Lutoslawski didn't make only dramatic music, his Danes, the concerto for oboe and harp and hte Venetian Games are very funny and witty music.


In your opinion it's one of the greatest concertos of the century. Opinion is not fact.


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## jhar26

I love this disc - one of Mutter's best.


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## bdelykleon

Mirror Image said:


> In your opinion it's one of the greatest concertos of the century. Opinion is not fact.


The million dollar question is that: why do you keep annoying others who like composers you can't fathom? Ok, you don't like it, so move on.


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> The million dollar question is that: why do you keep annoying others who like composers you can't fathom? Ok, you don't like it, so move on.


You're right, I can't fathom Lutoslawski. 

I think the real question is why do you continue to present your opinions as if they're facts?


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## bdelykleon

Mirror Image said:


> You're right, I can't fathom Lutoslawski.
> 
> I think the real question is why do you continue to present your opinions as if they're facts?


Because they are true.


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> Because they are true.


No, they're opinions and I don't have time to explain the difference between opinion and fact to you.


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## bdelykleon

Mirror Image said:


> No, they're opinions and I don't have time to explain the difference between opinion and fact to you.


In this case, it is my opinion and is pretty much shared by the people who matter. Obviously when the topic is more polemic I state clearly that it is my opinon, as when I said Berio's music is uneven.


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> In this case, it is my opinion and is pretty much shared by the people who matter. Obviously when the topic is more polemic I state clearly that it is my opinon, as when I said Berio's music is uneven.


As I stated above, I don't have time to explain the difference between opinion and fact to you, which you still don't understand.


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## bdelykleon

Mirror Image said:


> As I stated above, I don't have time to explain the difference between opinion and fact to you, which you still don't understand.


Pater, dimitte illis; non enim sciunt quid di****


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## Mirror Image

bdelykleon said:


> Pater, dimitte illis; non enim sciunt quid di****


Father, forgive them for they know not what they do? Is that the right translation?


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## Sid James

I'd actually give Lutoslawski a go, Mirror Image. I know you like jazz & he actually incorporates a lot of 'chance' elements into his music which is quite interesting. I suppose, a bit like jazz, no two performances of his music put to record are quite the same. This can be said more of Lutoslawski than any other composer I've heard...


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## emiellucifuge

Lets not get immature guys, people tend to present their opinions as fact - though it usually is not their intention to do so. Just ignore it.


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## Sid James

I thought I'd bump up this thread, since we haven't discussed Lutoslawski much around here recently.

I've just become familiar with his *Cello Concerto*, & agree with bdelykleon above that it's a very fine work. There's alot of tension, anguish & darkness there. The work begins with the cello asserting itself with a solo, but things gradually get out of hand, with the brass in particular making violent interjections. This is a work that takes about half a dozen listenings before it really makes sense. It stands in stark contrast to the poetically inspired Dutilleux concerto on the same Rostropovich disc. Lutoslawski conducted this performance, and despite his music being known for having chance elements, it seems to me that he knew exactly how he wanted his music to be performed, perhaps even more so than any other composer. Very little is left to chance in this recording...


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## Mirror Image

I've got a recording of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra that's coupled with Lutoslawski's "Concerto for Orchestra." I might have a listen to this soon as I haven't heard a note of his music before. Any thoughts on his "Concerto for Orchestra," Andre?


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## Sid James

I haven't heard Lutoslawski's _Concerto for Orchestra_, it's one I've been meaning to get, but LvB made some interesting comments on it above (the second post on the first page)...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I haven't heard Lutoslawski's _Concerto for Orchestra_, it's one I've been meaning to get, but LvB made some interesting comments on it above (the second post on the first page)...


Oh okay, I'll just what LvB said about it. Doesn't Lutoslawski use some atonality in his pieces? I heard he uses in a very convincing way. Could you perhaps ellaborate on this for rme?


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## Sid James

As far as I know (others more knowledgeable may care to elaborate on this), Lutoslawski was not only interested in atonality, but also in texture, harmony and aleatory processes (the element of chance). The _Concerto for Orchestra _comes from the early '50's, it's the work that established his reputation. Apparently, he uses alot of folk material in that work, but he would make a big departure from this direction later. I've mostly listened to some of his later works - _Symphony No. 2, Cello Concerto, Piano Concerto _- & there's no hint of folkishness in those...


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> As far as I know (others more knowledgeable may care to elaborate on this), Lutoslawski was not only interested in atonality, but also in texture, harmony and aleatory processes (the element of chance). The _Concerto for Orchestra _comes from the early '50's, it's the work that established his reputation. Apparently, he uses alot of folk material in that work, but he would make a big departure from this direction later. I've mostly listened to some of his later works - _Symphony No. 2, Cello Concerto, Piano Concerto _- & there's no hint of folkishness in those...


Hmm..interesting. I'll just listen to this "Concerto for Orchestra" and see if I like it or not. Thanks for the explanation.


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## bdelykleon

Chance appears mostly in Lutowslawski works in the 50's, like the Jeux Venetians, etc. It is not as great and central as in Cage, so it doesn't change completely the music.

But regarding tonality most of Lutowslawski works are slightly more atonal than Bartok's, the main difference is that Bartok conceal the atonality with the use of folk material, something not really common in Lutowslawski.


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## haydnguy

I was just looking at getting some Lutowslawski yesterday. There is one Phillips 2-fer set that looks really appealing called "The Essential Lutowslawski". I hesitated though because one of the reviewers said that the sound was not quite up to par on some of the pieces because of their age. 

I think I'll go the Naxos route because I've usually had pretty good luck with them and their price is good.


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## bdelykleon

haydnguy said:


> I was just looking at getting some Lutowslawski yesterday. There is one Phillips 2-fer set that looks really appealing called "The Essential Lutowslawski". I hesitated though because one of the reviewers said that the sound was not quite up to par on some of the pieces because of their age.
> 
> I think I'll go the Naxos route because I've usually had pretty good luck with them and their price is good.


this Essential Lutosławski is a very good set. I own it and I'm completely satisfied with it. But Wit's recordings with Naxos are also good recomendations, but the Phillips set has usually better performances, with the likes of Schiff, Argerich, Freire and Lutosławski himself.


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## Sid James

I just got one of the EMI Gemini 2 cd sets of Lutoslawski's orchestral music, songs, and string quartet.

I really like the _*5 Songs for Soprano & Orchestra* _(1957, orch. 1958). They are in Polish, and have the following titles: The Sea, Wind, Winter, Knights, Church Bells. I really like the way Lutoslawski uses texture and harmony in a startlingly original way to convey a sense of mood and place.

Another highlight of the set is the *String Quartet *(1964). Lutoslawski, much like Elliot Carter, uses the instruments as individual voices, whose melodies sometimes integrate and often diverge. The work is in a binary, two movement form, a structure which he often used, apparently. There is a sense of restlessness in the first movement, and some darkness & anguish in the second. The work ends in a slow tempo with much lyricism, but he seems to just leave you there hanging, because he doesn't give you a big grand ending that one is usually accustomed to. Neither does he seem to go back and repeat the initial theme. The performance, by the Alban Berg Quartet, is excellent, as are the other works on the set (which are conducted by Lutoslawski himself).


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## RichardF

Chain II and the Concerto for Orchestra are worth checking out. Heard the Chicago SO in one of the symphonies last year that didn't leave much of an impression.


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## Scott Good

Andre said:


> Another highlight of the set is the *String Quartet *(1964). Lutoslawski, much like Elliot Carter, uses the instruments as individual voices, whose melodies sometimes integrate and often diverge. The work is in a binary, two movement form, a structure which he often used, apparently. There is a sense of restlessness in the first movement, and some darkness & anguish in the second. The work ends in a slow tempo with much lyricism, but he seems to just leave you there hanging, because he doesn't give you a big grand ending that one is usually accustomed to. Neither does he seem to go back and repeat the initial theme. The performance, by the Alban Berg Quartet, is excellent, as are the other works on the set (which are conducted by Lutoslawski himself).


I just adore this piece! It is one of my favorite string quartets...period!

I had a great opportunity to coach a young-ish group of keen string players on this piece. What an experience for all of us. Exponential learning curve. I'm not sure if you realize this, but the music is organized around cuing and chance - there are no meters...at least not for the group as a whole. So, learning takes time, and must be thorough. Split second reflexes are needed continuously throughout. As well, the kinds of colours required to play it appropriately are very demanding. I must have spent an hour just on the first staccato notes in the solo violin to sound just right - perfect bow placement and speed and just the right amount of pressure and release (pedagogical technique being that if these notes can be played perfectly, it will reflect higher understanding to perform the entire work - I think it worked even though they got quite annoyed).

They just killed the piece in the end - breathtaking!


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## Sid James

I didn't know that Lutoslawski's SQ had no meters. That's very interesting. I've just read that he started using chance elements in his music after he heard some of John Cage's music on the radio in about 1958. It's always interesting to hear different interpretations of his work, I have two versions of the _Cello Concerto_ & they are both quite different from eachother. I can definitely hear the chance elements at work...


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## Scott Good

Andre said:


> I didn't know that Lutoslawski's SQ had no meters. That's very interesting. I've just read that he started using chance elements in his music after he heard some of John Cage's music on the radio in about 1958. It's always interesting to hear different interpretations of his work, I have two versions of the _Cello Concerto_ & they are both quite different from eachother. I can definitely hear the chance elements at work...


One thing I should mention is that the chance elements are quite controlled. All of the pitch material is notated - and the rhythms...but, it is the relationship between the parts that is loose...but not too loose!

It really is an amazing score.


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## cultchas

Andre said:


> *Witold Lutosławski* *I'm interested of what works people have heard, and your impressions of his music.*


Im lucky to have 1 CD him conducting his own music with Anne-Sophie Mutter on Violin, whom Partitia is dedicated to. His music on that album specially Partita and Chain (2,3) will make excellent music for suspense films .

In the tradition of Downbeat magazine, that album is 5 stars!!


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## Sid James

^bump^

Just listening to Lutoslawski's 3rd symphony (finished at the time that the Solidarity movement was being crushed in Poland in the early 1980's) and Shostakovich's 10th symphony (written not long after Stalin died) made me think about how we tend to "attach" contextual historical and political meanings to works like this. Lutoslawski denied any connections between the work and what was going on, although he did say that he could understand why some people thought that the work was a response to the increasingly repressive atmosphere in his country (the following is from the notes of the Naxos disc):



> After the first performance of the Third Symphony in Chicago on 29th September 1983 by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Sir Georg Solti, to whom the work is dedicated, one of the critics wrote that this symphony was exactly what might be expected at that time from a Polish composer. It must be remembered that at the time the effects of the introduction of martial law in Poland on 13th December 1981 were always apparent. Witold Lutostawski, who, after December 1981, took no part in the official life of the country, in the course of a meeting of the inner committee of musicologists in Warsaw, expressed his view of the American criticism. In accordance with his artistic principles, he did not confirm the supposition that he could have intended to express in his music the lot of the Polish people, and yet, he went on, _if we agree, all the same, that music can signify anything extra-musical, we should also recognise that we must consider music to be an art of many values. Man has, nevertheless, one single soul and events lived through must have some infiuence on him. If man has a psyche, then the world of sounds, while keeping its autonomy, is a function of this psyche. That is why I should like to associate myself here with a puzzling enough proposition, that if the last movement of this symphony produces an impression of this kind and if it keeps the audience in suspense, it is not the effect of chance. I must admit that I should feel myself honoured to have expressed something that could have relevance to the events lived through not only by me personally but also by other people. If that is true, I should regard it as a mark of the highest esteem._ (Witold Lutosfawski. 1983).


So, is there a connection to the country's experience under the Communist dictatorship, more than in his other works? It's hard to tell, none of Lutoslawski's works can be described as a "walk in the park." They are all shot through with not only emotional complexity but also darkness. There's no easy answer, but (obviously) just like any other artist, Lutoslawski was not only responding to external events, but also to things in his own life. For example, the earlier _Cello Concerto_ (1970) was written not long after the composer's mother died. There are many facets to Lutoslawski's work, but for me as a listener, I really like his sense of texture and rhythm. They are like a "fingerprint" of the composer...


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## Aramis

> finished at the time that the Solidarity movement was being crushed in Poland in the early 1980's


It wasn't crushed.


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## Sid James

Well, wasn't martial law introduced (the army used) as a response to the strikes by Solidarity? The Communists only wanted their government-sponsored unions, not independent ones like Solidarity. Obviously, the Solidarity movement survived, but the whole country was oppressed in the period leading up to the mid to late 1980's, when Gorbachev came to power in Moscow, and (as we know) - the rest is history. I'm glad that Lutoslawski lived to see these changes occur, and the country freed from the Communist dictatorship...


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## toucan

It was through the 3rd symphony (Barenboim conducting on Erato) that I discovered Lutoslawski. Far from being reminded of the politics of the 1980's, I thought I was being brought on a cosmic journey - all the way to the other side of the universe - far from the events of this earth.

I am convinced the dramatic opening chords of that symphony are destined to become as legendary as the opening chords of Beethoven's Fifth!

Lutoslawski's introduction to modern music was in concert, a performance of Szymanowski's third Symphony, which got him into several weeks of drunkenness. Back home he was able to recreate the symphony on piano, from memory. He was not yet a teen-ager.

Those who are curious to see how Szymanowski can transmutate into the ultra-modernism of the 1960's may want to listen to the three following works of Lutoslawski, in order: his *Lacrimosa* of 1937, a student piece, rather imitative of Szymanowski. Then the *Five Songs after Poems by Kazimiera Illakowicz* (1956/57), still Szymanowski but Szymanowski tending toward something else, though it is not yet clear toward what. And finally the *Trois Poemes d'Henri Michaux* of 1963, where Szymanowski is hardly recognizable, so transformed he is into one of the great & original choral piece of the post war era!

Albert Roussel seems to be a stronger influence on Lutoslawski's first symphony and his Concerto for Orchestra than the usually-cited Bela Bartok. The Concerto is overplayed and over-recorded relative to the great works of his late-blooming maturity - but it is great music! The Passacaglia (ie, the third movement) is especially clever as well as fun. It's basically the same theme, repeated without much change from beginning to end - other than change of instrumentations - and above all, of pitch: as it starts with the theme presented on upright bases, and then hops nd hops several times toward the next higher pitch - untill it climaxes on high pitch instruments. In principle similar to Ravel's *Bolero*, but perhaps more substantial, serious as music?

The chance hearing on the radio of Cage's Piano Concerto not only introduced him to aleatorism - it chocked him explosivelly into composing the great works of his maturity, the second symphony, the *Livre pour Orchestre*, *Mi-Parti*, etc.

The energy and inventiveness of the mature Lutoslawski - his violence - can be beyong belief. Take the second part of *Livre pour Orchestre*, where idea succeeds idea with unbelievable speed - each new theme implicitelly contained in the preceeding theme, organically growing out of it - though it is not till it is in the forefront that we realise this.

The use of brass by Lutoslawski is quite distinctive, like a signature. So much so that I do not like so much his all or mostly string pieces, like the quartet or *Preludes and Fugue* for 13 solo strings. I am also not crazy about his cello concerto, the contrast he creates between cello and orchestra just does not work for me.

Somewhere in the Second Symphony (perhaps as close to abstraction as Lutoslawski gets), there is a percusive part that sounds like a prefiguration of free jazz and even jazz-rock (same is true somewhere in Stockhausen's *Gruppen*)

The string glissandis in Lutoslawski are often expressive of something that sounds like despair.

The Third Symphony is transitional. It is still racy, modernist enough that beginners in the Contemporary movement in post-war music might need some time to penetrate it; and yet in it one can already detect the mellower Lutoslawski of the Piano Concerto and of the great, pessimistic, but resigned Fourth Symphony.

The Piano Concerto really ought to be performed more often. It could be such a crowd pleaser - for crowds that enjoy Prokofiev's piano Concertos. or Ravel's, or Gershwin, or even at times, Rachmaninov - without offending experts, as it is still great music - dramatic in the conflict it seems to present, between a possibility of happiness (the Gershwin parts - rare in Lutoslawski) - and something more ominous.

The pessimism and resignation of the Fourth Symphony suggests the hope expressed in the piano concerto ends in disappointment. Such a great symphony - one in which we are reminded of the vast perspectives of the great symphonists of the XIXth century.

I'd like to end on a little known gem of Lutoslawski's, his *Interlude* of 1989. Musically, it bears some affinity with Charles Ives masterpiece, *The Unanswered Question*, and with the trumpet part in Gyorgy Kurtag's near-masterpiece, *Grabstein fur Stefan*. Though it is contemporary with his mellowed, later work, what he seems to do with it is bring us back to the far away, remote corners of the universe to which he had brought us in works like *Livre pour Orchestre*. But it is a corner of the cosmos that has met with catastrophy - like the after math of nuclear catastrophy - the overriding sense being of calamity and desolation.

Sublime!

Highly recommended recordings are the Polskie Nagrania series (some of which were reprinted in the EMI Matrix collection). For the violin concerto, Anne-Sophie Mutter, for the piano Concerto, either Christian Zimerman or Eva Poblocka. There are two recordings of the fourth symphony, Lutoslawski conducting. on Kos records Warsaw and on Polskie Radio. *Interlude* can be found on a New Music Concert CD, recently reprinted by Naxos. This CD also includes the Partita and Chain II for violin and Orchestra, as well as *Chantefleurs et Chantefables*, Valdine Anderson, soprano


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## emiellucifuge

One thing I havent seen mentioned are his Polish Christmas Carols.

They are beautifully scored for a small orchestra and female choir, at first very consonant and melodic. However, as you progress through them they become more dissonant and adventurous even to the point of atonality.


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## Comus

I like his Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp. Never before have twelve-tone clusters sounded so good. The oboe melodies are interesting to no end, but the intriguing chords of the harp are my favorite aspect of this piece.


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## toucan

I should have mentionned one of the publishing events of 2009, Franz Welzer-Most and Leif Ove Andsnes' performance of the Lutoslawski piano concerto. If Welser-Most has one virtue, it is his taste for unconventional pairings and recordings (as when he paired Kaija Saariaho's *Orion* with Tchaikovski's _Pathetique_ Symphony) - and this excellent CD is another instance of this:










Zimerman/Lutoslawski, Poblocka/Lutoslawski, and now Andsnes/Welser-Most. Not a bad start for this Concerto. Would it be too much to ask that Haitink record it (and also a couple of symphonies since he did the third and fourth in Chicago)?


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## tdc

Recently purchased this (member Toucan's suggestion):










Great recommendation, I am quite impressed with all the pieces on this recording, definetely a composer I will continue to explore.


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## starthrower

Big Lutoslawski fan here! His orchestral music is superb! I recommend the 3-CD orchestral set on EMI, and the Sony disc of symphonies 3 & 4 conducted by Esa-Pekka Salonen.


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## lou

I recently attended a concert by The Wroclaw Philharmonic Orchestra, directed by Jacek Kaspszyk. The performance so impressed me, that I went looking for some of their recorded work to purchase. I found this CD on Amazon and am loving it!


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## sospiro

Can recommend this:










Review


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## starthrower

Comus said:


> I like his Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp. Never before have twelve-tone clusters sounded so good. The oboe melodies are interesting to no end, but the intriguing chords of the harp are my favorite aspect of this piece.


I love this piece as well. I have the excellent Naxos Vol 8 CD which also includes the Dance Preludes for clarinet, and Grave, for cello and strings.


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## DrKilroy

In Poland, we celebrate Lutosławski Year in 2013, so there are pieces by him in almost every concert in Warsaw Philharmony. Recently I attended two of them - I listened to Bucolics for viola and cello and Mi parti. I loved both! I especially liked the use of celesta at the end of the latter. I need to discover more Lutosławski's music. 

Best regards, Dr


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## Hausmusik

Upcoming release of possible interest:


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## starthrower

^
It's re-issued material, no? I have the single CD of 3 & 4.


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## Hausmusik

Star, I was not aware Salonen had recorded 1&2. I have that CD of 3&4 as well, like everyone on this thread probably.


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## starthrower

There was a CD of no. 2 paired with the piano concerto.


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## Vaneyes

Courtesy of The Guardian, a guide to *Witold Lutoslawski's* music.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/tom...5/contemporary-music-guide-witold-lutoslawski


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## science

The New Statesman wants some attention too: http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2013/01/lutosławski's-century-soundtrack-destruction


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## Vaneyes

science said:


> The New Statesman wants some attention too: http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2013/01/lutosławski's-century-soundtrack-destruction


And they get it with, "True Voice of the 20th Century." I like Luto, but Stravinsky and Shostakovich come rushing to mind.


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## Vaneyes

In celebration of *Lutoslawski *Centenary...

http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_concert_review.php?id=10789

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jan/31/philharmonia-salonen-review


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## PeterFromLA

Salonen had not previously recorded the First Symphony -- he'd only done the last three. This is the recording's first release, in a now repackaged set of all four symphonies, published in honor of the composer's centenary.

I am fortunate to have met the composer, back in 1986, when the San Francisco Symphony hosted a "Witold Lutoslawski Week" (he and his wife were incredibly gracious and charming, living echoes of an Old World past). The SF Symphony and the SF Conservatory hosted the composer and performed a large swath of his pieces, including the world premiere of Chain III (which I immediately loved), the Third Symphony, Les Espaces, the String Quartet, Chain I, and so forth. Charles Wuorinen, then the SFO's composer in residence, introduced Lutoslawski as "the world's greatest living composer," which I hadn't expected someone with his aesthetic to ever say. One of the events was Lutoslawski rehearsing the SF Youth Symphony in his Musique Funebre, an unforgettable experience. I went to every event, so I saw the composer conduct the Third Symphony three nights in a row! For one of the concerts I sat in the chorus section, which lies at the perimeter of the orchestra, and so has you facing the composer. This was my favorite vantage point, as I got to see the composer's face as he conducted. He looked like he was in heaven. (I also sat across from him in a church pew as members of the SFO performed his Quartet: he looked very pensive.) After that initial spurt I would go see WL whenever he visited the state (meaning LA or SF), and thus also got to see him conduct the world premiere of the Fourth Symphony in Los Angeles and Lynn Harrell in the Cello Concerto, among other pieces. The Fourth Symphony premiere was a huge event in the city's musical life. The local classical radio station broadcast a live performance and the LA Times published an editorial celebrating the composer (Los Angeles had it's own Lutoslawski Week proclaimed). Witold found a lot of love in San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Chicago, perhaps more than in any other American cities. I'm delighted to have been living in two of the three cities during that late blossoming of his career.

(It was a great time to be in California. I remember one night seeing Ligeti and Aimard present the Etudes in Berkeley, and Ligeti spoke about he had seen Lutoslawski the previous night conducting the SF symphony in the Piano Concerto [with Paul Crossley as soloist] -- a concert I also attended, and which also included his Concerto for Orchestra, if memory serves.)


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## julianoq

Just listened to the Cello Concerto for the first time, I am trying to know it before a concert that I will attend later this year (coupled with Shostakovich No. 10). I was not expecting that, kind of remind me of Messian quartet with a russian oppressive feeling. A lot to absorve there, but I liked it.


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## DrKilroy

And how do _you_ pronouce his surname? 

Best regards, Dr


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## elgar's ghost

DrKilroy said:


> And how do _you_ pronouce his surname?
> 
> Best regards, Dr


I'm thinking Lutt-oswaff-skee but feel free to correct.


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## DrKilroy

This is quite correct! Congratulations! 

Best regards, Dr


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## elgar's ghost

DrKilroy said:


> This is quite correct! Congratulations!
> 
> Best regards, Dr


Thank you.

:tiphat:


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## chalkpie

Count me in....I LOOOOOOOOVE Lut.

The only piece by this genius that hasn't grabbed me is the Piano Concerto, otherwise he is pure 24k gold. My favorite piece of his is Livre Pour Orchestra, a gem in its own right. I also dig his symphonies big time, especially 2, 3, and 4. His integration of aleatoric sections within a very rigid framework also adds color and texture to his already amazing musical ideas.

The two 'L's - Lut and Ligeti. I always lump these guys together, probably because they are in close proximity on my shelf! Gun to my head, I could not choose between the two. Both amazing, and easily Top Ten 20th Century composers from my vantage point.

Livre Pour Orchestra, Part I (1968); follow the link to part II in YT.


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## adrem

Very close to my heart composer (not to mention, that I'm from Poland - and for that reason please forgive me my english...i need much more practise). So subtle, gentle and sophisticated music. And that folk influences - pure Polishness.
My favourite works: 1 and 3 Symphony, Concerto for Orchestra, Paganini Variations, Cello Concerto.


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## joen_cph

Favourites: mostly some of the later works - Symphonies 3+4, Piano Concerto, maybe _Jeux Venetiens_ (sometimes a title can contribute to the experience of the attractiveness of a piece ;-) ) and _Chantefleurs_ ... . I own his works, but would have to catch up concerning a good deal of them, especially the earlier, neo-classical ones.

Zimerman is particularly superb in the Piano Concerto.


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## ericdxx

I have done quite some research (ie listening to many works) of Lutoslawski's music but I haven't found what I'm looking for so far.

I was under the impression that the massive, chaotic parts of Don Davis Matrix music stem from Lutoslawski. I haven't found anything like that.

These are examples of what I mean;: 
0:48 - 0:55





0:48-1:01


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## Garlic

I watched Rattle and the Berliner Phil do the Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp - this is a FANTASTIC work, one of the best new (to me) things I've heard in a while. I have to hear more of this guy's stuff.


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## Rehydration

I heard his Paganini Variations from the BBC Proms--
Stephen Hough is amazing.
The BBC Proms are amazing.
Witold Lutoslawski is amazing.
Also I like the Livre pour orchestra.


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## kevink

Witold, your music is kinda weird, that cello concerto was the weirdest music I've ever listened to...


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## starthrower

toucan said:


> I should have mentionned one of the publishing events of 2009, Franz Welzer-Most and Leif Ove Andsnes' performance of the Lutoslawski piano concerto. If Welser-Most has one virtue, it is his taste for unconventional pairings and recordings (as when he paired Kaija Saariaho's *Orion* with Tchaikovski's _Pathetique_ Symphony) - and this excellent CD is another instance of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zimerman/Lutoslawski, Poblocka/Lutoslawski, and now Andsnes/Welser-Most. Not a bad start for this Concerto. Would it be too much to ask that Haitink record it (and also a couple of symphonies since he did the third and fourth in Chicago)?


I just found the above pictured CD at my library, as I'm looking to explore various performances of the piano concerto. I only have the Naxos CD. Would like to hear the Zimerman on DG as well.


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## Oreb

The series of orchestral recordings on Chandos are my picks. A giant.


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## Richannes Wrahms

"If Bartok had composed a follow up to the concerto (which is a symphony but shhhh...)"

I'm still dubious on how to rate this guy, perhaps he is to Stravinsky, Bartok & Co. (even with some superficial Shostakovich) what Boulez is to Webern, Debussy & Co. Yet, Boulez seems much more 'evolved' in comparison...


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## Alypius

I have three of the four volumes in Edward Gardner's Lutoslawski cycle. There are uniformly excellent. Volume 4 is on my wishlist and I'll pick it up eventually. For those not familiar with his works, I recommend starting with his _Concerto for Orchestra_, then Symphonies no. 3 and 4:


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## tdc

Lutoslawski has a handful of works I find quite dazzling, a handful of works I find quite grating, and a whole bunch of other works I'm rather neutral on.

I sense he was a very good composer, but his musical style(s) and harmonic language generally doesn't quite work for me.


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## Morimur

Purchased this beauty not long ago...

View attachment 40704


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## Morimur

chalkpie said:


> Count me in....I LOOOOOOOOVE Lut.
> 
> The only piece by this genius that hasn't grabbed me is the Piano Concerto, otherwise he is pure 24k gold. My favorite piece of his is Livre Pour Orchestra, a gem in its own right. I also dig his symphonies big time, especially 2, 3, and 4. His integration of aleatoric sections within a very rigid framework also adds color and texture to his already amazing musical ideas.
> 
> The two 'L's - Lut and Ligeti. I always lump these guys together, probably because they are in close proximity on my shelf! Gun to my head, I could not choose between the two. Both amazing, and easily Top Ten 20th Century composers from my vantage point.


I share your enthusiasm for Lutosławski. A great artist.


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## Vaneyes

For chalkpie, I echo jc's sentiment re Zimerman/Lutoslawski PC. :tiphat:


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## chalkpie

Vaneyes said:


> For chalkpie, I echo jc's sentiment re Zimerman/Lutoslawski PC. :tiphat:


Yeah, there is no way I'm finished with the piece, I'll give it more spins. The problem is with me, not the music! I haven't heard it in a while to be fair and honest, but I just recall it being the one piece by Lut that didn't blow me away.

Ligeti's PC on the other hand is a diamond. :cheers:


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## hpowders

A little too much vibrato in Lutoslawski's 3rd Symphony with Salonen/LA Philharmonic.


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## Morimur

One of the greatest composers of the 20th century; a giant on par with Stravinsky. He's not well known in America and that's a shame.


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## Vaneyes

*Lutoslawski's* 3rd Symphony is examined this week by Service. CSO/Barenboim's my recorded pick.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...0/symphony-guide-lutosawski-third-tom-service


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## deprofundis

*Lutoslawski and Serocki*

It's my second trend on the subject of mr Lutoslawski, i had to says i enjoy is work symphony no 4 is nice but also concerto for cello and orchestra(i know i said that it were boring), i was wrong it's not, more so it's captivating.

Beside these two recording i had not heard anything so perhaps i should investigated furthermore.What should i pick up next from him?

Second part of the tread * Kazimier Serocki *he work a lot whit Witold Lutoslawski, i Wonder if he is good alone, the only sad part is, finding is work in cd or lp, hard to find as hell and pricy, naxos should do something about it(per se).

Thanks for reading


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## mmsbls

You might like the piano concerto. Naxos has a very reasonably priced recording with the Symphony No. 2, Symphonic Variations, and the Little Suite. I quite enjoy the Symphonic Variations and the Little Suite along with the piano concerto.


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## MagneticGhost

Morimur said:


> One of the greatest composers of the 20th century; a giant on par with Stravinsky. He's not well known in America and that's a shame.


I've had the Wit/Naxos box on heavy rotation over the last couple of days and I can only concur.
He really is one of the 'Greats'.


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## starthrower

mmsbls said:


> You might like the piano concerto. Naxos has a very reasonably priced recording with the Symphony No. 2, Symphonic Variations, and the Little Suite. I quite enjoy the Symphonic Variations and the Little Suite along with the piano concerto.


And what about the symphony? I really like that version.


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## starthrower

deprofundis said:


> Beside these two recording i had not heard anything so perhaps i should investigated furthermore.What should i pick up next from him?


The 3 disc set on EMI is a steal at under 6 dollars from Amazon vendors. And these works were all conducted by the composer.
http://www.amazon.com/Lutoslawski-O...F8&qid=1420074004&sr=1-3&keywords=lutoslawski

The Wit recordings on Naxos are good, but the composer's versions have more intensity.


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## brotagonist

Yes, I have that one. I admit that I don't know it well. I used to have the LP on Philips with Concerto for Orchestra, Funeral Music and Venetian Games. All 3 of these works are included, so it was a treat to have them again, but the other 2 discs worth are still fairly unknown to me. I don't know why I persistently let Lutosławski stagnate. I really need to give his music more attention. It seems to me that I say that nearly every day—about a different composer!


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## PeterFromLA

Mi-Parti (1976) is arguably Lutoslawski's most divine creation. I recommend that orchestral piece as an introduction to the composer, balanced perfectly between his more modernist middle period and his late period reconciliation of modernist technique with yearning lyricism and unabashed delight in beautiful sonorities. The most gorgeous recording of it was once available on vinyl (Supraphon), Jacek Kasprzyk conducting the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra. Not sure if it was ever transferred to CD. I haven't heard any other versions of the work that measure up to this one, unfortunately


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## Klassic

I remember the first time I heard Luto. I thought to myself 'this fella, though strange, is actually producing some kind of quality music.' Though I couldn't understand it I could tell there was something there, something beyond mere experimentation (not that he doesn't have that as well).


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## Janspe

The Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra announced their season 2017-18 today, and there were no less than four works by Lutosławski on the programme: Symphonies #1 and #4, the _Jeux vénitiens_ and the ever-wonderful Partita for violin and orchestra. I'm so excited about this, and can't wait to attend the concerts!

Inspired by this, I need to revisit some of my favourites from his oeuvre, especially the works for solo instruments and orchestra...


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## Tchaikov6

Janspe said:


> The Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra announced their season 2017-18 today, and there were no less than four works by Lutosławski on the programme: Symphonies #1 and #4, the _Jeux vénitiens_ and the ever-wonderful Partita for violin and orchestra. I'm so excited about this, and can't wait to attend the concerts!
> 
> Inspired by this, I need to revisit some of my favourites from his oeuvre, especially the works for solo instruments and *orchestra*...


Have you heard Mala Suita? What a fantastic work, remains one of my favorite works written post-1950!


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## Janspe

Tchaikov6 said:


> Have you heard Mala Suita? What a fantastic work, remains one of my favorite works written post-1950!


I think I've heard it a few times, but not enough to have formed a solid opinion on the piece. I'll make sure to check it out properly this time around!


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## Tchaikov6

My favorite version:


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## millionrainbows

I like it that in Lutoslawski's music there are areas of an aleatory or non-determined nature. It's a nod to Cage and Boulez, and is very modernist in spirit.


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## PeterFromLA

Lutoslawski was always very upfront about the profound shift in his thinking that occurred by virtue of his late night exposure to a radio broadcast of Cage's aleatoric Concerto for Piano and Orchestra (1951). It was nothing short of a revelation, and was first reflected in his orchestral work, Jeux vénitiens. Lutoslawski's use of aleatoric techniques was far more restricted than Mr. Cage's, but hearing Cage's unbridled aleatoricism nonetheless catapulted Lutoslawski to a stage in his compositional career that was truly pivotal for him.


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## Janspe

I've been delving _really_ deeply into Lutosławski's work over the past few weeks - meaning that I've listened to all of his works, or at least those that have been recorded and were available through Spotify. Browsing through a catalogue of his compositions, I think I managed to find most of it!

I'm so obsessed with his music now. There's such a mastery in _everything_ he wrote! And it's so interesting to see and hear his style evolve over the course of his career - starting from the early, quasi-Bartókian and folk-inspired phase, then to the un-apologetically radical modernist period that started with _Jeux vénitiens_; and finally the later period during which he infused his mature style with a newfound sense of lyricism, which can be seen in works like the Piano Concerto or the 4th Symphony. How fascinating!

My current favourite works include all of the concertante works (the Double Concerto for oboe and harp was a brilliant new discovery for me!) and the symphonies, the String Quartet, the _Three postludes_, the _Novelette_ and the haunting _Les espaces du sommeil_. But there are many more that I love!

*Everybody, listen to more of Lutosławski's music!*


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## Janspe

Revisiting the _Concerto for Orchestra_ tonight. As much as the later, mature works lie closer to my heart, there's no denying the stupefying power of this piece. The passacaglia movement is so bloody exciting!

Yesterday I listened to the _Cello Concerto_ in Rostropovich's classic recording. There are a lot of recordings of this piece that I haven't heard yet, including a recent one by Gautier Capuçon. Must investigate it soon...


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## flamencosketches

I've heard very little of Lutoslawski's music: the String Quartet, and then the first symphony. Both great, but radically different from one another, no...? I've been meaning to pick up this Naxos disc with his orchestral works that I always see at a local record store. I'll go ahead and grab it ASAP, on the strength of your praise for the guy


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## Janspe

flamencosketches said:


> I'll go ahead and grab it ASAP, on the strength of your praise for the guy


You wont regret it! Seriously, Lutosławski's work is absolutely essential. I know I rave on and on about many composers - my love is limitless and I have dozens of favourite composers - but there are only a handful composers I care so much about as Lutosławski.

Here are a few works I'd recommend as a "starter pack" to guide your way into his world, all orchestral compostions (the field where I feel he was at the height of his powers):
- Concerto for Orchestra
- Jeux vénitiens
- Symphony No. 2
- Cello Concerto
- Novelette
- Symphony No. 3
- Piano Concerto
- Partita, Interlude and Chain 2 (a combination of two works for violin and orchestra, linked by an additional interlude that was composed later; this is how the composer wanted the music to be played)

There are of course many others. I consider all of Lutosławski's compositions worth listening to! I personally should spend more time with his vocal works to understand them even more deeply.


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## Littlephrase

I think I share your enthusiasm for Lutoslawski, Janspe! It is music of immense excitement and energy, even in the moments of profound anguish.

I particularly love the symphonies and the concertos. Unbelievably great stuff.


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## starthrower

The Naxos series is pretty good. And I like the Salonen disc of Symphonies 3-4. If you can find used copies of the EMI recordings conducted by the composer, those are even better. I haven't heard any of the Chandos discs.


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## PeterFromLA

I enjoyed catching up on this thread. It reminded me of the piece through which I was introduced to Lutoslawski's music: his Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp, as performed by Heinz Holliger and his wife, Ursula Holliger, Michael Gielen conducting the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra.

The sound on that debut recording of the piece, at the time, was one of the best I'd ever heard. You literally felt like you were inside the orchestra, indeed, right inside the solo instruments in particular, it was incredibly immediate. The close-miked recording technique used on that LP made the oboe sound delightfully wooden and the harp sound resonantly plucked. The furious sawing tutti sections for strings were also engrossing. I loved that record, and I can still hear passages in my head, quite vividly, even now.

The Holligers re-recorded the piece, under the composer's direction, on the Phillips label, but the debut recording has always remained my favorite.


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## flamencosketches

PeterFromLA said:


> I enjoyed catching up on this thread. It reminded me of the piece through which I was introduced to Lutoslawski's music: his Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp, as performed by Heinz Holliger and his wife, Ursula Holliger, Michael Gielen conducting the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> The sound on that debut recording of the piece, at the time, was one of the best I'd ever heard. You literally felt like you were inside the orchestra, indeed, right inside the solo instruments in particular, it was incredibly immediate. The close-miked recording technique used on that LP made the oboe sound delightfully wooden and the harp sound resonantly plucked. The furious sawing tutti sections for strings were also engrossing. I loved that record, and I can still hear passages in my head, quite vividly, even now.
> 
> The Holligers re-recorded the piece, under the composer's direction, on the Phillips label, but the debut recording has always remained my favorite.
> 
> View attachment 122168











Might I assume this is the same recording you speak of? I'm going to have to pick it up for how cheap it is, for a two-disc set to boot.


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## PeterFromLA

Very likely, yes, it's been so repackaged.


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## starthrower

This great Philips 2 disc set can be had for 4 dollars and change. I have this set and it includes the concerto for oboe and harp with Heinz Holliger, and many other great works including a crack performance of the 3rd symphony.
https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Lu...sential+philips&qid=1565020830&s=music&sr=1-1

Here's another excellent low cost set conducted by the composer. This one includes the first two symphonies.
https://www.amazon.com/Lutoslawski-...rchestral+works&qid=1565021357&s=music&sr=1-5


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## philoctetes

The Salonen 3/4 was the first CD that really won me over... the Mutter disc is very good if you can find it... the live recording on Naxos represents the program I saw him perform live for a birthday concert in SF... and this BIS disc is an excellent coupling of two favorites...










I've come to appreciate Gielen more recently so I will look for that Oboe concerto


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## starthrower

I don't think it's one of his more popular works but the piano concerto is an interesting piece. Any opinions on the various recordings? I believe it was written for Zimerman who has recorded it twice. First with the BBC orchestra under the composer, and again with Rattle and Berlin. It's also been recorded by Salonen/Crossley, and by Louis Lortie/BBC on Chandos. The only one I've heard is the performance on Naxos under Wit.


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## joen_cph

I have three recordings (Paleczny/Wit, Zimerman/Lutoslawski, Poblocka/Kord) & have heard Andsnes too, but differences between them are relatively subtle or marginal, IMO. At first I liked Zimerman/Lutoslawski most, but I've come to like Paleczny/Wit more too.


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## jegreenwood

starthrower said:


> This great Philips 2 disc set can be had for 4 dollars and change. I have this set and it includes the concerto for oboe and harp with Heinz Holliger, and many other great works including a crack performance of the 3rd symphony.
> https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Lu...sential+philips&qid=1565020830&s=music&sr=1-1
> 
> Here's another excellent low cost set conducted by the composer. This one includes the first two symphonies.
> https://www.amazon.com/Lutoslawski-...rchestral+works&qid=1565021357&s=music&sr=1-5


That Philips set is terrific.


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## starthrower




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## starthrower




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## flamencosketches

Just picked up this:









Listening to the piece Jeux vénitiens. Wow, what a cool piece. These last two minutes or so are beautiful! Still struggling a bit to make heads or tails of Lutosławski's music; I think I'm just lacking context here, knowing very little about the composer and his development. What makes the music sound like this, so dissonant...? Is it 12-tone serialism? Or just raw atonality coupled with some kind of aleatoric methods? To draw a comparison, this reminds me somewhat of the works of Charles Ives, only somehow more objective and less terrifying. I am certainly enjoying this much more than I ever did anything of Ives', but that's the only touchstone so far. This is truly ultra-modern music, I think. Really need to find some good reading material on this composer and his life and works.


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## flamencosketches

... and onto Chantefleurs et Chantefables... wow, this is really great music. So glad I picked up this disc for a couple bucks. I'll be looking out for more of Antoni Wit's Lutosławski cycle if I can find it cheap. Might also pick up the Philips set as that looks like a lot of music for really cheap.

What are some other works of his worth checking out? According to the following article:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/t...5/contemporary-music-guide-witold-lutoslawski

... the Third and Fourth symphonies, and the Concerto for Orchestra, should be pretty worthy listens, so those will be the first thing I seek out, I think. While I still think I'm fundamentally missing some key element to understanding his music, something is still really alluring about it. Very unique stuff, and I've enjoyed everything so far...


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## starthrower

It doesn't sound extremely dissonant to my ears but maybe I've become too used to this kind of music? There are aleatoric sections in Venetian Games. The fourth symphony is a beautiful work which is why I uploaded Salonen's performance. There are a few moments where he ceases conducting and the orchestra keeps playing. I suppose that's an aleatoric moment.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> What are some other works of his worth checking out?


All of them, imo. Definitely symphonies 2-4, concerto for orchestra, cell concerto, and the concerto for oboe and harp.


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## starthrower

You might be able to navigate Concerto For Orchestra a bit easier than Venetian Games? It's not quite his cutting edge modernistic piece, but it's still great! Written in the mid 50s when he was still developing his music.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> All of them, imo. Definitely symphonies 2-4, concerto for orchestra, cell concerto, and the concerto for oboe and harp.


Thanks. I'll give that Salonen recording a listen, and then I think I'll pick up the Philips set with the composer conducting his own works to get a well-rounded overview I think. I also really want to hear more of Antoni Wit in this repertoire. He's a natural with this stuff I think.

Maybe you're right, re: dissonance; I don't find, say, Boulez very dissonant either (but I do Berio). This Chantefleurs does not contain much dissonance to my ears, it's almost impressionistic. But you may be right that perhaps we're just very used to this kind of tonal language. It's amazing, when I first heard a piece by Schoenberg, I was repulsed by the "shocking" dissonances, and nowadays, when I listen to much of atonal or 12-tone music, what I hear is a lush, beautiful explosion of color. Thus I feel pity when I hear people deliver diatribes about why atonal music is garbage, or "ugly", or that people are pretending to like it. What's most amazing is how quickly this all has grown on me. My point of entry into this music was Bartók, and then Webern. Both were extremely harsh upon first listen, but you get used to it. This was back in March, or April or so of this year.

Rant over. Whatever it is that this Lutosławski guy is doing with his music, he's onto something special.


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## starthrower

Yeah, it's just a matter of exposure and repeated listening. The Wit series on Naxos is fine as far as I've listened. I have 3 or 4 CDs. If I was starting from scratch I'd buy the 10 disc box for under 30 bucks. I love the Salonen Sony disc of symphonies 3&4 as well. But you can't go wrong starting with the Philips set.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


>


This was a fascinating video. Definitely going to be listening to the piano concerto soon. This sounds right up my alley.


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## starthrower




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## starthrower

Fantastic live performance of the mighty 3rd! Lintu has one Luto disc on the Ondine label. I hope he does more.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...lutos-awski-symphonies-nos-1-4-jeux-venitiens


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## NLAdriaan

It was in 1989 that I heard Lutoslawski conducting the Rotterdam Pilharmonic in public rehearsal and concert his third symphony and pianoconcerto. I already knew the symphony from a Salonen recording, but a public rehearsal is a interesting way to get to know a piece in more depth. I appreciate L's music, and he was somewhere in the back of my mind. So, thx to this updated thread, he is back again:tiphat:


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## flamencosketches

I'm listening to Lutosławski's string quartet, which was my introduction to his music. It's a really bizarre work, but I enjoy it very much. Very ambient and at times beautiful.






This is the performance, it's great. Also in the video are equally good performances of quartets by Penderecki and Mayuzumi. The latter two works are birds of a feather, but the Lutosławski is kind of its own beast.

I ended up ordering two more discs of Lutosławski: the Philips two-disc set, and then I just ordered Antoni Wit's recording of the 4th symphony along with the works Chain II, Interlude, Partita for Violin and Orchestra, and Funeral Music. It was very cheap on Amazon prime. Excited to get familiar with all this...


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## starthrower

Give a listen to the 3rd in that performance I uploaded. Play it through some decent speakers and turn it up. I was totally blown away by that orchestra.

His string quartet is very different. I have an old recording around here somewhere. It might be the LaSalle.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Give a listen to the 3rd in that performance I uploaded. Play it through some decent speakers and turn it up. I was totally blown away by that orchestra.
> 
> His string quartet is very different. I have an old recording around here somewhere. It might be the LaSalle.


I just put it on. I'll let you know what I think. Can't say I've ever heard of the Finnish Radio TV Symphony Orchestra.


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## starthrower

I just found my LaSalle DG string quartet CD. Listening to Luto's quartet now. I'm glad to be getting back into his music. There are still some pieces I haven't heard.


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## PeterFromLA

Lutoslawski was great in the pieces for large forces, such as the Symphonies, the Concerto for Orchestra, Mi Parti, and the Livre pour Orchestre.

However, he was also quite skilled at using smaller forces. This is apparent in his two piano piece, the Variations on a Theme of Paganini, his String Quartet, Partita for violin and piano (its original guise), and his tiny violin competition piece, Subito.

I recommend that folks consider also his vocal pieces. A vocal work that I like very much is the Five Songs, for soprano and piano; arranged for voice and thirty instruments. The work comes from his transitional period -- post Concerto for Orchestra, pre Jeux Vénitiens, so it's pretty accessible. I love it's atmospheric opening:






Another vocal work that I find appealing is his Paroles Tissées. The piece is for tenor and chamber orchestra, and it was written for the legendary Peter Pears. There's a clip of it on youtube, Pears and Lutoslawski performing, but you should also check out the premiere recording, with Pears and Lutoslawski, on Decca/London if you get a chance as the soncs in the youtube clip are not wonderful:






Then of course there is the highly regarded work, Les Espaces du sommeil, for baritone and orchestra. It was written for another vocal marvel, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau; and finally the last vocal piece mentioned above, Chantefleurs et Chantefables.

Lutoslawski had a knack for working superbly with his chosen texts, doing them justice in a satisfying way.


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## starthrower

Thanks for the links. I'm not familiar with the piece performed by Pears.


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## flamencosketches

OK, I'm starting to see where some of you guys are coming from with the superlative praise for this composer. Clearly, he is one of the greatest composers of his time. 

Some of his music is really growing on me. The First Symphony, the Jeux vénitiens, Chantefleurs, and the String Quartet especially. There are still several major works of his I have yet to hear and I'm going to take my time before getting to them. I feel like I have made a major discovery here. 

What seemed at first like fairly arcane music is now revealing itself to me as actually very accessible. Could it really be that I'm just getting used to this kind of harmonic language? He goes FAR out into atonality and even more arcane techniques such as aleatoricism (sp?), yet his music never strikes me as difficult the way that late Schoenberg, Berg, Berio, or even his younger compatriot Penderecki (the early works) do. I feel like he is tapping into something really raw and primal. It may be that Luto is not all that much more difficult than someone like Debussy.

Anyway, just wanted to vent a little as I've been going through a bit of a Luto binge today. I'm going to take my time with his music; as someone in another thread once told me when I was getting into another composer, it's best to "walk before I run". Clearly, there is something special here, and I don't want to blow it from overexposure.


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## starthrower

I haven't listened to the first symphony in a long time. I have the composer's recording on EMI. For me his strongest symphonies are nos. 2 and 3. There are a number of pieces I need to revisit including the Chains, Livre Pour Orchestra, and the double concerto.

I'm a big fan of all the great Polish composers including Szymanowski, Lutoslawski, Panufnik, Penderecki, Bacewicz, and Tansman.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> I haven't listened to the first symphony in a long time. I have the composer's recording on EMI. For me his strongest symphonies are nos. 2 and 3. There are a number of pieces I need to revisit including the Chains, Livre Pour Orchestra, and the double concerto.
> 
> I'm a big fan of all the great Polish composers including Szymanowski, Lutoslawski, Panufnik, Penderecki, Bacewicz, and Tansman.


I should have a disc of Szymanowski's two violin concertos coming to me today. Pendercki I like but need to explore further. The other names I'm not much familiar with at all, but Bacewicz seems like a good place to start (she wrote some string quartets that are supposed to be pretty good, no?)


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## starthrower

Yes, they are very good. There are a few recordings. I'd recommend the volume on Naxos with no.6


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## Janspe

flamencosketches said:


> Clearly, he is one of the greatest composers of his time.


This is *music to my ears!* :tiphat:



flamencosketches said:


> I feel like he is tapping into something really raw and primal. It may be that Luto is not all that much more difficult than someone like Debussy.


I feel like there is a very strong connection between Lutosławski and Debussy indeed, and the French school (if such a thing exists) in general. The music is raw and passionate, yes, but also very refined as well. It's so subtle, there's nothing over-the-top about it.


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## flamencosketches

Janspe said:


> This is *music to my ears!* :tiphat:
> 
> I feel like there is a very strong connection between Lutosławski and Debussy indeed, and the French school (if such a thing exists) in general. The music is raw and passionate, yes, but also very refined as well. It's so subtle, there's nothing over-the-top about it.


Completely agree. It took a bit for my ears to warm to his style and idiom (or really, to even understand what it is that he was doing exactly). In fact, I still don't quite completely understand it, but I think this enigmatic element just draws me into his music more. Refined is right. I wonder if he had taken any influence from Ravel in terms of craftsmanship and orchestration.

I would love to watch or read a good interview with the composer. Is anyone familiar with anything?


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> I would love to watch or read a good interview with the composer. Is anyone familiar with anything?


There was some great stuff on YT the last time I checked. Luto spoke very good English.

Here it is.


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## philoctetes

MIght want to try out Dutilleux if Luto and Debussy float your boat. Recordings vary, and I still like Erato's from the 90s. The newer Seattle recordings are a bit superficial. Also, Munch was an early advocate and he is still hard to beat.


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## starthrower

philoctetes said:


> MIght want to try out Dutilleux if Luto and Debussy float your boat. Recordings vary, and I still like Erato's from the 90s. The newer Seattle recordings are a bit superficial. Also, Munch was an early advocate and he is still hard to beat.


The Erato Centenary Edition has everything on 7 CDs for around 20 dollars. It includes the Munch conducted 2nd symphony.


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## flamencosketches

Ah yes, I've been meaning to check out Dutilleux and his works for some time now. I'll have to give a few of his pieces a listen sometime. That box set looks very cheap. When you say everything, @starthrower, do you mean it's his complete works?


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Ah yes, I've been meaning to check out Dutilleux and his works for some time now. I'll have to give a few of his pieces a listen sometime. That box set looks very cheap. When you say everything, @starthrower, do you mean it's his complete works?


I think so. He didn't publish all that much for posterity. Nevertheless there are several high quality pieces including symphony no. 2, the violin concerto, Les Citations, the string quartet, piano sonata, Mystere de I'Instant, cello concerto, and The Shadows Of Time.


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## millionrainbows

PeterFromLA said:


> I enjoyed catching up on this thread. It reminded me of the piece through which I was introduced to Lutoslawski's music: his Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp, as performed by Heinz Holliger and his wife, Ursula Holliger, Michael Gielen conducting the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> The sound on that debut recording of the piece, at the time, was one of the best I'd ever heard. You literally felt like you were inside the orchestra, indeed, right inside the solo instruments in particular, it was incredibly immediate. The close-miked recording technique used on that LP made the oboe sound delightfully wooden and the harp sound resonantly plucked. The furious sawing tutti sections for strings were also engrossing. I loved that record, and I can still hear passages in my head, quite vividly, even now.
> 
> The Holligers re-recorded the piece, under the composer's direction, on the Phillips label, but the debut recording has always remained my favorite.
> 
> View attachment 122168


I've ordered this one. Thanx Peter!


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> There was some great stuff on YT the last time I checked. Luto spoke very good English.
> 
> Here it is.


Is this dubbed? His english is amazingly good.

In either case, this is an amazingly illuminating conversation. Thank you.


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## starthrower

No, they are speaking English.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> No, they are speaking English.


Yeah, I believe it now; when it got to the scene of him conducting he starts going back and forth between Polish and English. He really is a natural. You'd think he spent time in England from a young age.

Luto seems to really hit home the idea that the Polish government, despite its proclamations and its state-sponsored "socialist realism", really had very little control or impact over the music that its citizens were making. Looking at the music of Luto and his younger contemporaries Penderecki, Górecki, Bacewicz etc. compared to the Soviet composers of the time, I'm inclined to agree.


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## Janspe

flamencosketches said:


> Ah yes, I've been meaning to check out Dutilleux and his works for some time now.


*Do it.* Dutilleux is one of the most brilliant composers of all time, even if his output remained painfully small. You can familiarize yourself with it fairly quickly, and it's most definitely worth it!


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## millionrainbows

I'm waiting for the Double Concerto for Oboe and Harp, as performed by Heinz Holliger and his wife, Ursula Holliger, Michael Gielen conducting the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. 
to arrive. Thanks to PeterFromLA for the mention.


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## Enthusiast

^ An excellent record!


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## flamencosketches

I have the Hollingers’ performance with the composer himself conducting, on the Philips compilation. Really good, but now I do also want to hear the Gielen.


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## PeterFromLA

Gielen was a great conductor. I'm amazed he prospered in Cincinnati, of all places, as he was very much in the mainstream of European high modernism, specializing in the Second Vienna School and their progeny. I'm glad folks at TC are seeking out Gielen's turn at the Lutoslawski Double Concerto.


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## Blancrocher

PeterFromLA said:


> Gielen was a great conductor. I'm amazed he prospered in Cincinnati, of all places, as he was very much in the mainstream of European high modernism, specializing in the Second Vienna School and their progeny. I'm glad folks at TC are seeking out Gielen's turn at the Lutoslawski Double Concerto.


I just bought it as well. Great recording. The very attractive Strauss oboe concerto, which is new to me, is a nice bonus.


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## gregorx

One of my favorites of the 20th century and, I think, vastly underrated. I came across his work on the previously mentioned Anne Sophie Mutter and Bartok discs.

But one of my favorites that hasn't been mentioned is part of why I like the guy so much:





 

Preludes and Fugue for Thirteen Solo Strings. Filmed in Poland in 1973, Lutoslawski conducts The Warsaw National Philharmonic Chamber Orchestra. From the opening where he walks up to the podium and leaf's through the pages aimlessly, to the Fugue where all 13 strings are going crazy and Lutoslawski is just standing there, listening, not conducting anything, it's absolutely exhilarating.


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