# What is your favourite recording of Beethoven 2nd symphony?



## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I have seen a lot of threads on recordings of beethoven symphonies but in google i put in 'beethoven symphony no. 2 recordings talkclassical' and i only got 'Beethoven symphony recordings suggestions' so i want to start this first ever separate thread on TC about his 2nd symphony which is probably the least popular amongst all his symphonies. So fire away, you can give recommendations or you can just express your thoughts about this symphony, both are fine!


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Beecham - wonderfully exhuberant. He makes the best case I have heard.

Jochum/DG is also very good. Jochum IMO was a near ideal conductor for Classical repertoire - Haydn, Mozart, and early Beethoven.

.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

EvaBaron said:


> I have seen a lot of threads on recordings of beethoven symphonies but in google i put in 'beethoven symphony no. 2 recordings talkclassical' and i only got 'Beethoven symphony recordings suggestions' so i want to start this first ever separate thread on TC about his 2nd symphony which is probably the least popular amongst all his symphonies. So fire away, you can give recommendations or you can just express your thoughts about this symphony, both are fine!


Harnoncourt.

Mxmxx x x x


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Two recommendations:

Karajan 1977. It strikes a great balance between HIP-py tempo and lush beautiful sound.






Gardiner 1994. A little less plush, slightly faster. Good for picking out different instrumental parts.






Both are brisk and exciting, which for me is a prerequisite for Beethoven's 2nd.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Walter/NYPO
Szell
Solti
Toscanini/NBC
Reiner - dvd


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> *Walter/NYPO*


My favorite....


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

I like all of the Beethoven 2nds that I have in the recordings I own. I’ve stated before that Szell/Cleveland is my favorite cycle. So I took another approach. I decide to think about the one recording that I DO NOT like. Most respectfully to Matthew Weflen,it is the Karajan(60s) that I don’t like. I listened to the above example. Karajan always is very good in the big symphonies;3,5,7,9. Less so in the rest(1,2,4,6,8). It’s the Karajan treatment. Way too lush and plush. Too much legato. Early Beethoven that sounds like Brahms. In the picture,one has to decide if one likes the traditional German approach(Bohm), big band but lean and mean(Szell) or all the various incarnations of HIP-y interpretations.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

FrankinUsa said:


> I like all of the Beethoven 2nds that I have in the recordings I own. I've stated before that Szell/Cleveland is my favorite cycle. So I took another approach. I decide to think about the one recording that I DO NOT like. Most respectfully to Matthew Weflen,it is the Karajan(60s) that I don't like. I listened to the above example. Karajan always is very good in the big symphonies;3,5,7,9. Less so in the rest(1,2,4,6,8). It's the Karajan treatment. Way too lush and plush. Too much legato. Early Beethoven that sounds like Brahms. In the picture,one has to decide if one likes the traditional German approach(Bohm), big band but lean and mean(Szell) or all the various incarnations of HIP-y interpretations.


The 77 is much more sprightly and has sharper attacks than the 63. But it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round


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## Michael122 (Sep 16, 2021)

The 2nd was probably the most bashed LVB symphony by critics of the time, supposedly because they didn't like its jocularity. Too bad for them. 
My favorites, in order are:
Furtwangler,
Karajan,
Szell,
Monteux, and
Bernstein with VPO.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I've not listened to them for a bit but ones I recall, off the top of my head, are Stan the Man, Krivine, Haselbock, Ivan Fischer and especially Mackerras (the RLPO cycle - that's a really impressive one). Plenty of good older ones too but it's my least favourite LVB symphony by some margin, tbh, so I can't be dealing with anyone dragging it out. :lol:


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

Michael122 said:


> The 2nd was probably the most bashed LVB symphony by critics of the time, supposedly because they didn't like its jocularity. Too bad for them.
> My favorites, in order are:
> Furtwangler,
> Karajan,
> ...


I always thought that his 8th is the most bashed one, by both critics and listeners.. some people refer to it as the dwarf between the two giants.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Michael122 said:


> The 2nd was probably the most bashed LVB symphony by critics of the time, supposedly because they didn't like its jocularity. Too bad for them.
> My favorites, in order are:
> Furtwangler,
> Karajan,
> ...


I left off Furt because the sound on his one extant recording is atrocious, but musically it stands right beside the Beecham in my book. Not the bloated, ponderous reading some may assume without hearing it.

Cluytens and Klemperer were also excellent in this symphony.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Mackerras/Royal Liverpool


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Cleveland - Szell (1960s)
BPO - Karajan (1963)
Anima Eterna - Jos van Immerseel (HIP/Period Instruments)
Le Chambre Philharmonique - Krivine (Period Instruments)


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

Tarneem said:


> I always thought that his 8th is the most bashed one, by both critics and listeners.. some people refer to it as the dwarf between the two giants.


The 8th didn't get as big of a reception as the 7th and 9th at the time but I'm not aware of any serious critic that has denied its genius. Beethoven himself thought highly of it, and I've known many listeners (myself included) who prefer it over both the 7th and the 9th.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I've always loved the Second, it's probably the Beethoven symphony I listen to most besides the Sixth. 

Threads like this inevitably are heavily weighted towards recordings before 1980, and you might get the impression nothing of value or interest has appeared since. If so, I believe that to be an incorrect impression. 

Pre-1980, my favorites are Szell/Cleveland, Karajan/Berlin (1962, but some prefer the 1977, and also the 1980s one is excellent), and Steinberg/Boston. Anyone who says Karajan is just legato or only smoothed over is someone whose ears I cannot trust. Brüggen on period instruments (2nd cycle) is arguably softer edged, and slower, and so is Walter/Columbia (although I actually like both).

Post-1980 with modern instruments, my favorites are Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken, Abbado/Berlin, Jansons/BRSO, Haitink/LSO, Chailly/Leipzig. 

For period instruments, my favorites are Immerseel/AEB and Norrington/LCP.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Ansermet (1960) and Norrington (1985) for clarity, immediacy, drive and power. Bohm is also good though more Germanic with a tendency to make the music bigger than it is. These conductors all did the other "feminine" Beethoven symphonies well -- Nos. 4, 6 and 8.

I also liked William Steinberg's with Pittsburgh from back in the LP days.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

The 2nd is one of the highlights of Nikolaus Harnoncourt's cycle with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe, & it's one of my favorite 2nds. Other favorites include Eduard van Beinum's live 1958 recording with the Philharmonia, and Rafael Kubelik's two recordings, especially the second one with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on Audite, but also his recording with the Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam on DG. I also like Kurt Masur's more classically orientated two recordings with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra on Philips. Lastly, among period recordings, Frans Bruggen's 1st recording on Philips is exceptional (& IMO, preferable to his second live account on Glossa).

The 2nd Symphony was composed during the time of the Heiligenstadt Testament (a letter written by Beethoven to his brothers in 1802), where Beethoven revealed that he had contemplated suicide due to his encroaching deafness. As with the letter, the symphony starts out in a troubled state of mind. It would appear that all the turmoil, anger, frustration, despair & anguish that Beethoven was experiencing in his life at the time got poured out into the first two movements of his 2nd Symphony; indeed I hear an intense light and dark struggle going on in the 1st movement. There is something almost disjointed, furious, harrowing, troubled, and distracted about the music--that is, in the right hands. Then, Beethoven eases up a bit in the 2nd movement, where the music at times becomes more poignant & lilting, but the sense of disturbance lingers. He then, most surprisingly, composes a very positive resolution to his symphony in the 3rd & 4th movements. It is as if the dark turbulence had lifted, or he'd bravely decided that he'd be able overcome his worsening disability. Or, perhaps he thought this might well be his last symphony and he didn't want to go out on a negative note, not while his powers remained strong & he still had most of his hearing intact.

The first three conductors that I mentioned above, IMO, thoroughly understand the troubled nature of this symphony, with its surprisingly positive resolution, better than most, & especially Beinum, whose performance makes a near ideal measuring stick by which to judge others, at least in this regard; since I expect you'll find that many conductors don' see the intense light & dark struggle in this music to the same extent that Beinum does.

My four top picks,

--Beinum, Philharmonia: 




--Kubelik, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks or Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra: 




--Harnoncourt, COE: 




--Bruggen, Orchestra of the 18th Century: 




Others that I've liked,

--Kubelik, Concertgebouw Orchestra (from his DG cycle): 



--Masur, Gewandhaus Orchestra, Leipzig 1 (1972--from his 1st analogue cycle for Philips: 



--Masur, Gewandhaus Orchestra, Leipzig 2 (from his later digital cycle in Leipzig for Philips, which had the advantage of using the newly corrected, at the time, Leipzig based C.F. Peter's edition of Beethoven's score. Overall, I tend to prefer Masur's earlier 1970s cycle, but his 1st, 2nd, & 4th are at least competitive from the 2nd digital cycle for Philips.):


















Bernard Haitink with the Concertgebouw and Eugen Jochum with the Berlin Philharmonic are both good in this symphony, too.

--On period instruments, as mentioned, the best I've heard is Frans Bruggen's 1st recording for Philips, but I've also liked Christopher Hogwood's recording.

--While among HIP performances on modern instruments, as mentioned, the best I've heard is Harnoncourt's (& arguably Masur's, since he uses the same sized ensemble that Beethoven used), though John Nelson's 2nd is well worth hearing, too; even though Nelson doesn't get quite the same pronounced sense of a light & dark struggle going on in the first movement that Harnoncourt does: 



.

Finally, I wanted to add that with Beethoven's first three symphonies, in particular, it is, IMO, very important, given their style, to choose de-Brucknerized, de-Wagnerized interpretations. All three symphonies are very dynamic works & should be played that way, rather than in a slow, ponderous, & heavy late (or post) Romantic Germanic manner that Beethoven wouldn't have recognized.


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## Nipper (Jun 5, 2020)

I've been listening to the Second quite a bit more in the last few years. In addition to some of the great recordings listed already, let me add a few favorites:

Kletzki/CPO
Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin
Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden
Wand/NDRSO


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Rene Leibowitz and the RPO


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Karajan with the Berliners, Bernstein wit the Wieners and the New Yorkers , try them, bit excitement


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

larold said:


> ...
> 
> I also liked William Steinberg's with Pittsburgh from back in the LP days.


Huh? What do you mean: "back in the LP days"?

That recording is just as good today as when it was when first released. And _I_ still play the LP.















----

Let me add another to the list:





















The Kempe remains a "go to" set for me.


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## arbiter elegantiarum (Jul 5, 2015)

These are the essential recordings of the Second:

1936 Beecham LPO
1938 Erich Kleiber Orchestre National de Belgique
1938 Weingartner LSO
1949-1951 Toscanini NBC


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

arbiter elegantiarum said:


> These are the essential recordings of the Second:
> 
> 1936 Beecham LPO
> 1938 Erich Kleiber Orchestre National de Belgique
> ...


Nobody in the last 3/4 century knew how to conduct or play Beethoven's second?


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Of course there are too many recordings to count. Of the ones I have avoid the weighty ones like Klemperer and Furtwangler who are interesting but out of style. 
Toscanini 1852 is great but thinly recorded. Karajan 1963 probably the best ever but his Philarmonia runs it close in everything except recording. Norrington or Gardiner for HIP


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

marlow said:


> Of course there are too many recordings to count. Of the ones I have avoid the weighty ones like Klemperer and Furtwangler who are interesting but out of style.
> Toscanini 1852 is great but thinly recorded. Karajan 1963 probably the best ever but his Philarmonia runs it close in everything except recording.* Nor ringtone or Gardiner for HIP*


Someone else with a ridiculous spellchecker on their phone. Lol


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Merl said:


> Someone else with a ridiculous spellchecker on their phone. Lol


Thanks! When your spellchecker knows best……..:lol:


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Schmidt-Isserstedt/VPO is mine favorite.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

marlow said:


> Toscanini 1852 is great but thinly recorded.


For the record I'll say that recordings from that time were very primitive.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

marlow said:


> Toscanini 1852 is great but thinly recorded


Yes I would give modern recordings a slight edge but the effort matters


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Bernstein/NYPO, Karajan/BPO (60s and 70s), Gardiner/ORR, Abbado/BPO and Toscanini/NBCSO are my top choices for the 2nd. To choose between them depends on my mood.

I don't know Walter's, and this thread made me want to hear it.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Böhm/VPO is a great one, if it hasn’t been mentioned


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## arbiter elegantiarum (Jul 5, 2015)

haziz said:


> Nobody in the last 3/4 century knew how to conduct or play Beethoven's second?


Not necessarily. This was an addition to other recordings mentioned in this thread.

OTOH, the performances of the Beethoven symphonies are becoming more and more generic. Current standards of the orchestral execution are unprecedentedly high, but there is hardly anything beneath the superficial polish. Most of the contemporary readings are difficult to distinguish from each other.

Let me add one more recording from the mono era. The 1958 Schuricht OSCC is stupendous.


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Gardiner's Piano concertos 4-disc set on Archiv contains a chamber version of the 2nd symphony.
(for piano, violin & violincello)

Worth a listen.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

*Ernest Ansermet *and *L'Orchestra de la Suisse Romande *for power and clarity mated to sensitivity very Toscanini-like. The two conductors were friends and often saw music similarly. They were sort of the pre-HIP period performers.

FYI this Japanese enhanced recording is a bit bass heavy. The original LPs maintained Ansermet's signature clarity.

BTW all these years later Ansermet's is still my favorite integral Beethoven symphony cycle. Here's his Second Symphony:






For period enthusiasts I also enjoy Norrington's first go round in 1985 for tuttis that build and explode more quickly than we'd ever heard previously:






Of newer period versions Jordi Savall's with the omnibus Le Concert Des nations is pretty good. No Youtube version sad to say; you have to buy it.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Currently listening to the Jarvi recording he made in Bremen with the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie...

really rather good, particularly the second movement!


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

jim prideaux said:


> Currently listening to the Jarvi recording he made in Bremen with the Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie...
> 
> really rather good, particularly the second movement!


Yes, very good cycle overall. No.4 is my favourite. A real barnstormer


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I love Harnoncourt's take on the Beethoven symphonies.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

The Schuricht sounds interesting and his LvB cycle has been mentioned on a couple of forums I frequent apart from this one.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I love Harnoncourt's take on the Beethoven symphonies.


I find Harnoncourt to be too quirky sometimes


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

the 2nd is one of Harnoncourt's best, I think, all over his cycle the woodwinds of the CoE really shine and the first two movements of the 2nd give them plenty of opportunity.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

I think Konwitschny/Leipzig deserves to be mentioned.
Konwitschny was superb in the "lighter" symphonies, and while I think the 4th is the highlight of his cycle, the 2nd is terrific too.

I also found an RCA Leinsdorf/Boston 2nd at the charity shop, I bought it because of the Prometheus excerpts that you don't hear every day but the 2nd is a nice bonus. How well is Leinsdorf regarded in this work?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

RobertJTh said:


> I also found an RCA Leinsdorf/Boston 2nd at the charity shop, I bought it because of the Prometheus excerpts that you don't hear every day but the 2nd is a nice bonus. How well is Leinsdorf regarded in this work?


Leinsdorf's Beethoven was hit or miss, for me. Most of it was decent enough and I like the first two as he keeps tempi lithe. He gets bogged down in a few of the middle ones and the 7th lumbers a bit. The star of the show in his cycle is that 9th, which I personally consider to be one of the great ninths around. Articulation is snappy, rhythms really tight and he has a top quartet of singers. It's the one recording from the set where everything comes together, organically. As a buyer, if you're not a lunatic cycle collector like me, you can easily get hold of a cheap copy of that 9th, secondhand. Buy it. You won't be disappointed. As a heads-up to anyone wanting a good 2nd symphony (and consistently, surprisingly good quality cycle) for a super cheap price at the moment then look out for Menuhin's mostly ignored vastly underrated Varsovia cycle. I've seen it at ridiculously cheap prices online recently (£3 a few weeks ago on Fleabay with p&p). If the 2nd from that set doesn't grab you then check out the Pastoral. It's a really strong one. Don't get me wrong, it's not a top class cycle but it's spirited and well-played and an antidote to those lumbering accounts like Beinum's quite awful BBC 2nd with the Philharmonia (not aided by quite dreadful sound). Check out Stan the Man's 2nd with the Saarbrucken forces if you want to hear how this one should be played. That's pretty special too.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Merl said:


> Leinsdorf's Beethoven was hit or miss, for me. Most of it was decent enough and I like the first two as he keeps tempi lithe. He gets bogged down in a few of the middle ones and the 7th lumbers a bit. The star of the show in his cycle is that 9th, which I personally consider to be one of the great ninths around. Articulation is snappy, rhythms really tight and he has a top quartet of singers. It's the one recording from the set where everything comes together, organically. As a buyer, if you're not a lunatic cycle collector like me, you can easily get hold of a cheap copy of that 9th, secondhand. Buy it. You won't be disappointed. As a heads-up to anyone wanting a good 2nd symphony (and consistently, surprisingly good quality cycle) for a super cheap price at the moment then look out for Menuhin's mostly ignored vastly underrated Varsovia cycle. I've seen it at ridiculously cheap prices online recently (£3 a few weeks ago on Fleabay with p&p). If the 2nd from that set doesn't grab you then check out the Pastoral. It's a really strong one. Don't get me wrong, it's not a top class cycle but it's spirited and well-played and an antidote to those lumbering accounts like Beinum's quite awful BBC 2nd with the Philharmonia (not aided by quite dreadful sound). Check out Stan the Man's 2nd with the Saarbrucken forces if you want to hear how this one should be played. That's pretty special too.


I feel really dumb but which conductor is meant with Stan the man?


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

EvaBaron said:


> I feel really dumb but which conductor is meant with Stan the man?


Stanislaw Skrowaczewski


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Chilham said:


> Stanislaw Skrowaczewski


It's what us Mancunians called him when he was the Principal Conductor of the Halle Orchestra. 'Stan' is fondly remembered in Manchester. The Halle was not in great shape when he came due to problems with the Free Trade Hall and funding but he left them in a much better position (partly due to him improving standards and then Manchester City Council finally giving them a decent venue to play in). Although I miss the Free Trade Hall for rock gigs it was bloody awful for orchestral concerts. They added acoustic panels and all sorts of stuff but it was still rough.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^The only thing I remember the Free Trade Hall for were school speech nights


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## Nipper (Jun 5, 2020)

Merl said:


> Leinsdorf's Beethoven was hit or miss, for me. Most of it was decent enough and I like the first two as he keeps tempi lithe. He gets bogged down in a few of the middle ones and the 7th lumbers a bit. The star of the show in his cycle is that 9th, which I personally consider to be one of the great ninths around. Articulation is snappy, rhythms really tight and he has a top quartet of singers. It's the one recording from the set where everything comes together, organically. *As a buyer, if you're not a lunatic cycle collector like me, you can easily get hold of a cheap copy of that 9th, secondhand.* Buy it. You won't be disappointed. As a heads-up to anyone wanting a good 2nd symphony (and consistently, surprisingly good quality cycle) for a super cheap price at the moment then look out for Menuhin's mostly ignored vastly underrated Varsovia cycle. I've seen it at ridiculously cheap prices online recently (£3 a few weeks ago on Fleabay with p&p). If the 2nd from that set doesn't grab you then check out the Pastoral. It's a really strong one. Don't get me wrong, it's not a top class cycle but it's spirited and well-played and an antidote to those lumbering accounts like Beinum's quite awful BBC 2nd with the Philharmonia (not aided by quite dreadful sound). Check out Stan the Man's 2nd with the Saarbrucken forces if you want to hear how this one should be played. That's pretty special too.


That's what I did (bought the single RCA cd). Although I'm a bit crazy with 40 Beethoven symphony cycles currently on my shelf. Leinsdorf's Ninth is one of my favorites; top five out of the 55 I own.


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