# vintage French opera albums (difficult-to-locate LPs & CDs)



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Hello, opera lovers.

Although I've been responding within threads here @ TC for months, this is my first post.

My focus will be on contemporary operas written by French composers and released on French record labels during the 2nd half of the 20th century (basically 1950s through 1990s).

I realize this a rather narrow area and will have limited appeal.

Nonetheless, I think there is enough material out there (although most would probably label such as "obscure") in this category to fuel a thread of its own. I hope a few members will find this interesting and, perhaps, even learn about some rarities they may never have known existed.

Please feel free to chime in with contributions of your own, if any, or chat about this or that being brought to the table.

I plan to cover at least 3 composers in separate postings. For this first one, I choose Marcel Landowski. 


*MONTSEGUR* (1987/1988) on Cybelia's 2-CD set CY 850 - 851










*LE FOU* [1980 (recorded in 1978)] on Erato's 2-LP boxed set STU71249










*LES ADIEUX* 1968? - not certain about the year of this one; the LP, which I was able to get, is monaural-electronically-simulated-into-stereo and I thought this album to be older than it is. Released as SMS 2577 via Gravure Universelle.










*LE VENTRILOQUE* (1963) on Pathé EMI's LP: DTX 346











Let me preface by stating that Marcel Landowski is not a top favorite composer of mine. Stylistically, Landowski is rather more conservative than, say, Henri Dutilleux (to say nothing about how far away Landowski was from the modernism of Pierre Boulez). But I like Landowski's music, which sounds not unlike an extension of Arthur Honegger's.

Any thoughts, comments or input regarding the above?

For one thing, I consider it intriguing that M. Landowski is rarely a topic of conversation nowadays despite a solid-enough reputation to have had multiple albums of his music surfacing regularly from 1960s onwards until his passing.

Those interested further in Landowski may wish to check out this website devoted to him (which I only just recently encountered):

http://www.marcel-landowski.com/discographie.htm


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I picked this up used, and couldn't believe how much it was going for on-line.















I'm pretty sure this Debussy is hard to find also. Whoops, I was going by the thread title, and I just realized this is limited to that one composer, Landowski. Oh well, I've already exhausted all my possibilities.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Hi, millionrainbows.

Sure there's lots of vintage albums that are hard to find. I'm being more specific, though, by focusing on those French Operas from the '50s through the '90s which had only a single recording/release.

However, this is by no means limited to Marcel Landowski. Composers whose works debuted during and after the advent of 1950s stereo recording technology are not likely deemed "old" enough - such as Debussy - to warrant multiple subsequent recordings of their operas.

It seems in some cases that that lone issue (whether initially on LP or CD) may very well be the only version we'll get on physical media (as it's not financially feasible to mount a second recording or even re-issue the original album contents...)


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

The next composer whose lyric/dramatic albums I wish to spotlight should be no surprise - Jean Prodromides!

Let me commence with the 1961 Philips LP of *LES PERSES*, whose cover image also serves as my avatar in TC.










This early and powerful work by Prodromides is a dramatic oratorio produced for French television. This genre-blending record could just as easily be classified as a soundtrack album as classical music. "Classical" because it is based upon ancient Greek tragedy, yet written in a modern musical vocabulary on par with contemporaneous works by the likes of Henri Dutilleux. A personal favorite which seems unlikely to receive a new digital recording.

Fast forward 20 years to 1981 in which the label Le Chant Du Monde released *LE LIVRE DES KATUNS*, along with other works which were all recorded during the 1970s.










Like the entry above, these are not operas per se but stage works which, nonetheless, I think are related enough to be included with the operas (which start below). {Le Livre Des Katuns, by the way, intrigued Polish film director Andrzej Wajda so much he commissioned Jean Prodromides to write the score for Wajda's DANTON}

Next up chronologically is Harmonia Mundi's 2LP boxed set of the 1984 opera *H. H. ULYSSE*, an image of which I'm unable to locate online.

My favorite opera by Prodromides (that I have heard thus far) is *LA NOCHE TRISTE*, a live recording of which was fortunately released by the Ades label on 2 CDs in 1991:










Very thorny & uncompromising in its dissonances, 1989's LA NOCHE TRISTE is not dogmatic regarding its atonality (i.e. serialism) but cannot be considered anything if not modern. LA NOCHE TRISTE is one of my personal favorite "Top 10" operas.

The most recent item by Prodromides is *GOYA*. This 1996 opera came out a year later in a 2-disc set by MFA.










One of the pages within the liner notes from GOYA lists a handy (though very selective) capsule of works by Prodromides:


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

This 3rd installment, which was promised, focuses on the lyric/dramatic music of Charles Chaynes.

The most recent opera by Chaynes, that I own, hails from Disques Chamade's 1995 2-CD set of *JOCASTE*:

















This live recording (likely the only one this work will receive) is from JOCASTE's performance during November of 1993.
Of the few albums I have, which follow below, with music by Charles Chaynes, JOCASTE is the one I like the most.

Next in reverse chronology is Cybelia's 2-discs of *NOCES DE SANG*, which was recorded in 1988:










With the paucity of CDs available containing music by Charles Chaynes, it's not the easiest of tasks to decipher Chaynes' musical signature style(s). Portions of NOCES DE SANG recall some of the sonorities, at least on the surface, created by Olivier Messiaen, such as with the clusters of brass and/or metal percussion. I won't say NOCES DE SANG is derivative; however, listeners who already appreciate the music of Messiaen will be in a position to best approach Chaynes.

Lastly, here's an image of the 1980 Calliope LP on *POUR UN MONDE NOIR*, four orchestral songs/poems for soprano, orchestra & African percussion:










Recorded in 1978, these pieces by Chaynes reside in close proximity to the soundscapes of Maurice Ohana with their emphasis on freely atonal depictions of African subject matters and their usage of ethnic percussion, rhythms and scales/intervals.
Overall, a unique album whose contents are worth investigating for the connoisseur of the contemporary.

This entry will probably be the last one on this thread, due to the lack of interest from amongst TC members in this subject.
I feel certain there is (and will be) enough admirers of French-language operas. Nevertheless, most members seem to rely on current technology, and, if a piece of music isn't available within a video clip in YouTube and exists only on an out-of-print vinyl record or scantly-distributed CD album, then such music is apparently deemed unworthy of exploration.

I hope my miniscule effort to help increase awareness of so-called obscure vintage albums and musical compositions hasn't been too much in vain and that a few members out there may have even benefited from it.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Prodromides said:


> This entry will probably be the last one on this thread, due to the lack of interest from amongst TC members in this subject....I hope my miniscule effort to help increase awareness of so-called obscure vintage albums and musical compositions hasn't been too much in vain and that a few members out there may have even benefited from it.


I have found this thread to be fascinating, especially as your preferences run to the modern side; I just think you are exploring an area of art unknown to most Americans. I think modern French opera is fascinating, and obscure modern French composers, labels and CDs, to be equally fascinating. I do have one piece, for organ, by Chaynes, on a Xenakis organ CD recorded at Notre Dame. Turn me on to a few more before you go.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

For my audience of one, I'll offer an assortment of individual highlights.

Olivier Messiaen's *SAINT FRANCOIS D'ASSISE* on DG is likely the most well-known:










For a more accessible and less challenging contemporary French opera, I'd suggest Laurent Petitgirard's *ELEPHANT MAN*:










Returning to modernity, here's one by Pascal Dusapin entitled *PERELA UOMO DI FUMO* on a 2005 CD set from Naive:










Finally, I recommend the music of Claude Ballif, perhaps the most uncompromising and astringent composer whom I cover in this thread. There's no formal opera by Ballif that I'm aware of, but there's a number of albums throughout the decades which showcase his vocal/choral compositions.

There's works by Ballif for chamber choir and trombone, for instance, on a 1992 Arion CD. Harmonia Mundi's 1984 LP of his "Un Coup De Des" for chorus and ensemble is another example. Perhaps the most significant release of Ballif's choral music is on MFA's 2-CD set from 1997 featuring Ballif's genre-blending opus 59 - *DEUXIEME SYMPHONIE MYSTIQUE* for baritone, 3 choirs, children's chorus and orchestra:

















Is this a symphony? Is this a choral work?

It's up to each listener to determine what this opus is for one's self ...


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks, Prodmoridès (you left out the accent over the e). I've actually managed to locate a couple of these specific discs, and other works by these composers. Perhaps in a week I'll be able to order some of this stuff. Here is an effort on my part, with some discs I find interesting:


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> Thanks, Prodmoridès (you left out the accent over the e). I've actually managed to locate a couple of these specific discs, and other works by these composers. Perhaps in a week I'll be able to order some of this stuff. Here is an effort on my part, with some discs I find interesting:


Thanks for the accent - I don't know how to add that accent over the letter "e", but I can always return here to copy it.

View attachment 6775


What you got there is the 1995 Signum CD from Germany. It's got Andre Jolivet's 1940 MESSE as its main program, but there's companion pieces by Uwe Lohrmann plus others.

Hope you enjoy your explorations into Jolivet, and Erato's 4-CD compilation on their vintage Jolivet albums (much of them analog recordings) is an excellent source.

View attachment 6776


Jolivet is perhaps my 2nd favorite composer after Charles Koechlin, but, much as I love these Erato editions, none of them are operas which is why I haven't mentioned them in this Opera forum.

The only orchestral version I could find of Jolivet's masterpiece CINQ DANSES RITUELLES resides within this set (on disc 4, I think). I attempted a number of times to nominate CINQ DANSES RITUELLES in TC's TOP 100 threads on modern music, but it never had a decent chance to make it onto the lists.

If you are so inclined, millionrainbows, search out for Erato's similar package of their recordings of music by Maurice Ohana.










Ohana is more of an acquired taste than Jolivet, but, if one can get "into" Ohana, then the volumes of albums by both the Erato and the Timpani labels are essential.
One of the works in this Erato set is Ohana's 1967 SYLLABAIRE POUR PHEDRE, which is actually a chamber opera (so it's relevent to this thread  ).

Also, some of the albums mentioned above do show up in the secondary marketplace so they are not impossible to find - just that one needs to search specifically for these items. LPs of Prodromidès and Landowski circulate in CDandLP.com on a regular basis and that Chaynes LP surfaced (surprisingly) at that U.S. Audiophile website.
Half of the key to locating these sorts of albums is simply having the _awareness_ that they had existed in the past.
That Philips LP of "Les Perses" was made before I was born, but with my persistance I was able to procure a copy eventually...


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Prodromides said:


> If you are so inclined, millionrainbows, search out for Erato's similar package of their recordings of music by Maurice Ohana.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ooh, that Ohana looks interesting! Also worth mentioning is Marius Constant's orchestration of Ravel's "Gaspard de la nuit."


----------



## Lariosik (Aug 4, 2015)

*Prodromides*,
Hello.
Where I can get acquainted with Jean Prodromides's operas and symphonies? (to buy, download or listen)

Yours faithfully


----------



## Tedski (Jul 8, 2015)

Prodromides said:


> For my audience of one . . .


Double that, at least. I'm reading; I just don't have any input to offer the discussion. :tiphat:


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Lariosik said:


> *Prodromides*,
> Hello.
> Where I can get acquainted with Jean Prodromides's operas and symphonies? (to buy, download or listen)
> 
> Yours faithfully


Not the easiest of tasks - I can assure you.

Probably half of the music by Prodromides that was ever recorded remains on vinyl discs and have yet to arrive onto digital media.
If you own a turntable, then you might be interested in acquiring some of the used LPs or EPs from a vendor (such as CDandLP.com) which deals with a lot of French discs.

Both the Philips LP of the 1961 "Les Perses" and the 1981 _Chant du Monde_ LP containing "Livre des Katuns" have multiple used copies for sale via different sellers.
Mind you, most of the used vinyl one might see for sale in the secondary marketplace are the French EPs from the early 1960s from French films and television.
As for his TV oratorio "Les Perses", this can also been seen in a YouTube video to acquaint oneself with one of his works at no cost:





Regarding the 2-CD sets of his operas "Goya" and "La Noche Triste", they appear to be only in stock at Amazon.fr:
http://www.amazon.fr/Goya-Jean-Prod...=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1440351837&sr=1-3

But don't be daunted. In order for me to have been familiar enough with Jean Prodromides myself to post about it here @ TC, years ago I had to hunt-n-peck around for these albums. I've been this way since 1993!  From the very start of my classical music collection over 20 years ago, I focused on the obscure and the hard-to-get precisely because I knew if I didn't grab it when I saw it, I might never get another chance to own it.

The music of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. will always be available at any time on various media. This is not true about 20th century composers, however.

My advice: go & search for those composers who you have never heard before and get some blind buys during the meantime.
In my experience, my blind buys remain in my collection and I have very few with which I discard and/or am strongly dissatisfied.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Tedski said:


> Double that, at least. I'm reading; I just don't have any input to offer the discussion. :tiphat:


Glad that you're interested!
Thanks for stopping by this thread.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Here's a nice scan of the reverse side of "Goya".


----------



## Lariosik (Aug 4, 2015)

Dear *Prodromides*!
Many thanks for prompt reply.
Thanks for your tips and links.
I for the first time heard Jean's music at cinema. It differs from usual music for movies. The author uses a wide set of musical instruments and width and depth of various sounds. And it is felt at once. I didn't know yet that Jean Prodromides writes operas, but I thought that he has to be someone more, than simply composer for cinema. And my hearing didn't deceive me.
I looked for information about Prodromides and came across this forum. Has to tell that thanks to you I learned a lot of interesting about the composer. More information, than anywhere.
It is very good that there are people who share such rare and valuable information.

You pay attention that it is difficult to find music of composers of the 20th century. It is the truth, and it is bad.
I not absolutely understand for what it becomes. Why cds with records of modern operas and symphonies aren't published. Publishers don't understand real music; or they want to impose to people pop music, that dulling people... I consider that music of composers of the 20th century isn't less interesting, than classical music.

I too prefer to buy works of unknown authors (not only music, but also literature etc.). But now in musical shops anything isn't present. And musical shops are uncommon. Only online stores with pop music from which it makes one sick to hear...
Where you buy cds and vinyl?


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Lariosik said:


> Where you buy cds and vinyl?


For new releases CDs, I can get them in a F.Y.E. store.
For the used/vintage material, I have used either Amazon Marketplace or CD&LP.com


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Wow, I was surprised to see this thread pop up again. He's not French, but Maderna's opera Satyricon is interesting. Also, speaking of obscure labels, Bvhaast.


----------



## Lariosik (Aug 4, 2015)

I hope that I won't violate the rule of this forum …
Allow to present you record of the opera "Les Perses" in high quality:
Les Perses - Théâtre (Tragédie antique)

Yours faithfully


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Hi, Lariosik.

That link leads to what appears to be a DVD quality print of "Les Perses". Nice to know, but that site doesn't mention Jean Prodromides, though, does it? I didn't see his name in the credits.

Anyway, I don't think it is a violation to post a link to a site that charges for a download? I think the main concern is when something is posted without permission from the publisher (i.e.: when the rights owner does not get any royalty money from it).

For fans of the composer and his music, the more pressing concern is (to me, anyway) regarding the album master of "Les Perses".
It was issued on Philips with deluxe packaging - so that LP must have been a high-profile prestige item back then.
Does Philips continue to own the master tape recordings for "Les Perses"? Do these album masters even exist at this distance in time? If so, then what needs to be satisfied in order for these tapes to be restored/re-mastered for digital media (that is, what is the cost of the licensing fee? and can another label besides Philips re-issue this material?). Perhaps the greatest concern here is simply lack of potential customers. Philips may not wish to exert effort to restore & reissue when the customer base for the music of Prodromides is maybe 6 people across the Earth. 
[I jest, of course, but I also doubt there would be significant sales on an item such as this]
If there were 10,000 customers around the world who would buy music by Prodromides, then all of this 'rare' stuff I talk about in this thread would be easily accessible in multiple media formats.
Just like monaural recordings, the music of many composers needs to accumulate a much larger fan base than currently exists if such is to be preserved and circulated for generations present and yet to come.


----------



## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi Prodromides- thank you for posting the YouTube link to Les Perses. I watched it earlier and couldn't believe that something so good had been commissioned for television! Interesting music (less of it than I would have expected from a 'dramatic oratorio', but none the worse for that) and a beautiful production. I don't know anything about the music of this era so I can't contribute much to the discussion, but I will be following this thread with interest!


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

You're welcome, Figleaf. I'm gratified that a few TC members have begun to explore this aural territory.

Most of my material, though, has already been posted earlier in this thread.
Not too much for me to add except that I think all interested parties should sample the vocal works by Maurice Ohana (if one hasn't done so already), who had some of his pieces recorded 'back in the day' on vinyl but since 1999/2000 has had much much more of his output made available on CDs.
I would also suggest Marius Constant, too. Though I'm unaware of any operas by Constant, his instrumental music enjoyed moderate distribution via multiple vinyl LPs (mostly on the Erato label).

There's likely plenty more French composers, but I can't stop wondering how many of them have never had their music recorded and how much of their music I'll never get to hear during my lifetime.
[Maurice Leroux, anyone?]


----------

