# Shirime Composes Music?? Face Reaveal!!! and BIG ANNOUNCEMENTS [NOT CLICKBAIT]



## Guest

yeh so i thought i'd just post some of my pieces ive done in this thread and you can listen if you want

heres one, its in a rather more conservative style than i am comfortable with:






(((i have a cameo appearance as page turner)))

The score is attached in PDF form and includes a programme note that you need not bother reading.

I will also use this thread for concert announcements of my music. I have a few coming up later this year.


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## KjellPrytz

Exciting music since it is so new to me. Not so melodic and it took a while until I got engaged but then it caught me. I guess it should be understood as sort of narrative music and therefore reading the program notes was fruitful for me.
I like that pizzicato glissando in the end as well as the whole piece.
Talking about rhythm, which one of the performers conduct?


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## E Cristobal Poveda

This is unlistenable. I hear very little musicality in this.

Did you perhaps spill ink on the score, is that what caused this?


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## Vasks

E Cristobal Poveda said:


> Did you perhaps spill ink on the score?


I recommend spending a little more time studying the score.


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## Guest

E Cristobal Poveda said:


> This is unlistenable. I hear very little musicality in this.
> 
> Did you perhaps spill ink on the score, is that what caused this?


That's okay! No one hears music the same way. However I kinda disagree with Vasks here; no one exactly needs to study a score to enjoy music or find something musical in any piece of music. We're all different, so let's celebrate that.


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## Manxfeeder

Nice! If my music teachers in college would have taught how to write like that, I wouldn't have quit and gone into another field.


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## Phil loves classical

I think I hear Penderecki?


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## dzc4627

While the score is very pretty and well put together, the music sounds absolutely dreadful and I must warn you that this idiom is numbered in years. The pursuit of ugliness exemplified in this music is not a cause worth following, and I find it paramount to the preservation of the tradition of Western classical music to idolize beauty, not grotesquerie.


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## St Matthew

dzc4627 said:


> While the score is very pretty and well put together, the music sounds absolutely dreadful and I must warn you that this idiom is numbered in years. The pursuit of ugliness exemplified in this music is not a cause worth following, and I find it paramount to the preservation of the tradition of Western classical music to idolize beauty, not grotesquerie.


Cheer up! Have a kit-kat!


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## St Matthew

Astounding piece, great craftsmanship. The flow, release and building of tension, the awesome piano arpeggiated clusters and rhythms. Very much drew me into the very mesmerizing narrative unfolding. The dissonance was bloody great too!


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## Guest

dzc4627 said:


> While the score is very pretty and well put together, the music sounds absolutely dreadful and I must warn you that this idiom is numbered in years. The pursuit of ugliness exemplified in this music is not a cause worth following, and I find it paramount to the preservation of the tradition of Western classical music to idolize beauty, not grotesquerie.


Thanks so much for letting me know! I will absolutely adjust my creative style to personally meet your criteria on idolising beauty and not grotesquerie so that I can better preserve a tradition that I have so far not let obstruct passions and interests that make the music true to me and 'absolutely dreadful' to you.


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## Guest

St Matthew said:


> Astounding piece, great craftsmanship. The flow, release and building of tension, the awesome piano arpeggiated clusters and rhythms. Very much drew me into the very mesmerizing narrative unfolding. The dissonance was bloody great too!


Geez, m8, I can't please everyone! dzc4627 already said it was an example of 'the pursuit of ugliness' that I'd best avoid, so......what am I supposed to do about _your_ extremely thoughtful and reassuring comment which has really made my day and given me warm feelings inside?


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## St Matthew

E Cristobal Poveda said:


> This is unlistenable. I hear very little musicality in this.


Did you forget to press play on the video? :lol:


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## Guest

Here's an older piece, performed by some buddies of mine. _Evolve_ composed in January in 2017, for clarinet, violin and piano.


__
https://soundcloud.com/jessop-maticevski-shumack%2Fevolve

The clarinettist has recently asked me to write a solo piece for him for a concert at the National Gallery of Victoria to accompany some artworks visiting from MoMA.


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## Ingélou

This music might not be my personal taste but I find it exciting and fresh and I admire your dedication and ability, shirime.
May you go far in the World of Music! :tiphat:


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## dzc4627

St Matthew said:


> Cheer up! Have a kit-kat!


All cheers here, Matthew.


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## MarkMcD

Whilst there are various schools of thought on what art and music should and should not be, for me, I think there should always be an element of beauty, something to captivate and inspire the audience. I did find parts of the piece quite intriguing but I can't say I liked it as a whole. I will however defend the right to produce whatever the artist may desire, in the end, the audience can be the only judge of success or failure. It may be possible to analyse the score and find a wealth of technical excellence, but that in itself doesn't guarantee good music. Sorry, I did try, but just not for me.

Regards
Mark


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## dzc4627

shirime said:


> Thanks so much for letting me know! I will absolutely adjust my creative style to personally meet your criteria on idolising beauty and not grotesquerie so that I can better preserve a tradition that I have so far not let obstruct passions and interests that make the music true to me and 'absolutely dreadful' to you.


I gave no specific criteria. Your insincerity makes it hard to reply to this post with any kind of substance. I don't expect you to adjust your creative style. All that I can say is that your creation is ugly and will not touch the hearts or minds of those not within the limited academic group that worships chaos. I want to dissuade as many musicians from this.


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## Guest

dzc4627 said:


> I gave no specific criteria. Your insincerity makes it hard to reply to this post with any kind of substance. I don't expect you to adjust your creative style. All that I can say is that your creation is ugly and will not touch the hearts or minds of those not within the limited academic group that worships chaos. I want to dissuade as many musicians from this.


I think both you and me have some things in common, though.

1. Resentment towards the insular bubble of academia
2. Valuing beauty and originality

I'll continue composing music that sounds beautiful to me and enjoyable for the people playing and listening to it. 
:tiphat:


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## Phil loves classical

Rhythmically I found it interesting, but harmonically I found it a little restrictive at first ( that's just how it felt to me). It seemed to flow better to me as the piece progressed. I liked the music more than the score, which to me can look dead simple, banal and boring like Mozart's and sound like heaven, or complicated as hell like Ferneyhough's and sound opposite. I know rhythmically it couldn't fit into a regular metre, but I admire those that don't need to change the time signature every bar personally.


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## Guest

Phil loves classical said:


> Rhythmically I found it interesting, but harmonically I found it a little restrictive at first ( that's just how it felt to me). It seemed to flow better to me as the piece progressed. I liked the music more than the score, which to me can look dead simple, banal and boring like Mozart's and sound like heaven, or complicated as hell like Ferneyhough's and sound opposite. I know rhythmically it couldn't fit into a regular metre, but I admire those that don't need to change the time signature every bar personally.


Thanks, and I get what you mean re harmony.

The pitch content of the piece, right up until the coda, was built on a 4 note chord multiplied on itself and then the entire group of pitches were inverted but connected by the A below middle C so that the lowest pitch of the original multiplied chord is the highest pitch of its inversion. Each different pitch, for the most part, is fixed in register, but I deviate from that every now and then, especially at the end.

I arranged the pitches into two four by four matrices where I gave myself particular guidelines as to how I could build melodies, but smaller chords could be extracted from any possible pitch, either by travelling along the x or y axes of each matrix or by moving only to the note the small interval on either side to the current one. Again, I deviated from these rules where I thought it was appropriate.

This approach helped me to create a defining harmonic language for the composition.

I had a lot of trouble with the metre, actually. Some of the longer rhythms in transitional sections were calculated in terms of multiplying a long duration by two thirds of itself a set number of times until it forms the anacrusis of the tempo of the next section. To make it rhythmically interesting I had to work around this, and I actually like how the rhythm sounds and it didn't take too much work to get into the 'groove' but the notation is horrendous.


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## Guest

I found this piece of music to be excellent; it held my interest throughout. Thank you for sharing it here.


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## paulc

I listened to Evolve, but the first piece posted is not showing up (black rectangle)... is it a YouTube clip? Why it stop working for me???


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## Guest

paulc said:


> I listened to Evolve, but the first piece posted is not showing up (black rectangle)... is it a YouTube clip? Why it stop working for me???


Yeah its YT. I just listened to it fine, no black rectangle here.


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## Guest

dogen said:


> I found this piece of music to be excellent; it held my interest throughout. Thank you for sharing it here.


Thanks, dogen.


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## Vasks

Phil loves classical said:


> I know rhythmically it couldn't fit into a regular metre, but I admire those that don't need to change the time signature every bar personally.


This makes no sense. With that kind of logic, you don't "admire" the Danse Sacrale from Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring"


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## Zeus

Fantastic work, well put together and many interesting ideas! I could perhaps use some silence in some places, sometimes the ear doesn't get enough rest (in my opinion).

Haven't looked at the score yet but I don't think I could tell you many things that you aren't already aware of.


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## Guest

Zeus said:


> Fantastic work, well put together and many interesting ideas! I could perhaps use some silence in some places, sometimes the ear doesn't get enough rest (in my opinion).
> 
> Haven't looked at the score yet but I don't think I could tell you many things that you aren't already aware of.


Thanks, Zeus.


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## Phil loves classical

Vasks said:


> This makes no sense. With that kind of logic, you don't "admire" the Danse Sacrale from Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring"


The Rite of Spring is my gold standard. I believe some of the notation with the rhythms in this piece could be reduced. Where there was a 11/16 and 7/16 next to each other could be 9/16 and 9/16, with accents where necessary. There were some bars with 3/4, 4/4, etc. where I felt the rhythm could have fit nicely into a more consistent notation.

Do rhythms really need that much variation in notation to be interesting? I feel the notation only needs to vary where absolutely required.


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## Vasks

Phil loves classical said:


> a 11/16 and 7/16 next to each other could be 9/16 and 9/16, with accents where necessary.


Of course, it can be done, but Stravinsky who lived a long time beyond Sacre's inception and who clearly revised some of his pieces later in life never did. Boulez in his "Le marteau sans maitre" has tons of changing meters.

But regardless, what I was reacting to was your choice of the word "admire". That's what made no sense to me.


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## Phil loves classical

Vasks said:


> Of course, it can be done, but Stravinsky who lived a long time beyond Sacre's inception and who clearly revised some of his pieces later in life never did. Boulez in his "Le marteau sans maitre" has tons of changing meters.
> 
> But regardless, what I was reacting to was your choice of the word "admire". That's what made no sense to me.


Oh, that. Just saying I admire the inevitability in rhythm. Rite of Spring I believe has that, and the changes in meter were necessary. But if there is no reason a 3/4 and 5/4 could not be combined from what I see here. if the rhythms themselves can achieve more coherence (not saying this is the case with Shirime's work here), then it loses the impact of inevitability for me, regardless of how it looks on paper.


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## Ingélou

shirime said:


> I think both you and me have some things in common, though.
> 
> 1. Resentment towards the insular bubble of academia
> 2. Valuing beauty and originality
> 
> I'll continue composing music that sounds beautiful to me and enjoyable for the people playing and listening to it.
> :tiphat:


This is an excellent post.
I was wondering about (2), shirime - which matters to you more, in terms of your gift or ambition or long term goals: to compose music that is *beautiful *(to you & others) or *original*?

Or would you always go for both, and suppress music that had one of those qualities but not the other?

Please don't answer unless you care to - I ask the question only out of interest.


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## Guest

dzc4627 said:


> I gave no specific criteria. Your insincerity makes it hard to reply to this post with any kind of substance. I don't expect you to adjust your creative style. All that I can say is that your creation is ugly and will not touch the hearts or minds of those not within the limited academic group that worships chaos. I want to dissuade as many musicians from this.


Well I liked it.


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## Phil loves classical

shirime said:


> I think both you and me have some things in common, though.
> 
> 1. Resentment towards the insular bubble of academia
> 2. Valuing beauty and originality
> 
> I'll continue composing music that sounds beautiful to me and enjoyable for the people playing and listening to it.
> :tiphat:


I agree there can be great beauty in some dissonance. It all depends on the listener. I dislike atonal dissonance, but love chromatic ones.


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> This is an excellent post.
> I was wondering about (2), shirime - which matters to you more, in terms of your gift or ambition or long term goals: to compose music that is *beautiful *(to you & others) or *original*?
> 
> Or would you always go for both, and suppress music that had one of those qualities but not the other?
> 
> Please don't answer unless you care to - I ask the question only out of interest.


I believe that as soon as any composer seeks to create something beautiful it will be undoubtedly original. Creating something beautiful, for me, is the goal; originality is hopefully a lucky side effect considering that what we find beautiful is a bit different for everyone.


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## Ingélou

shirime said:


> I believe that as soon as any composer seeks to create something beautiful it will be undoubtedly original. Creating something beautiful, for me, is the goal; originality is hopefully a lucky side effect considering that what we find beautiful is a bit different for everyone.


I agree. 
And the principle holds for other art forms, in my opinion.


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## Guest

*An Announcement!*

(currently doing dull, boring business stuff for this, negotiating fees and deadlines etc)

My friend Phil (associate principle clarinettist at the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra recently contacted me to commission a 7 minute solo clarinet piece for a performance at the *National Gallery of Victoria* in early August. The purpose of the performance is that it is meant to accompany some artworks by the German Expressionist painter *Ernst Ludwig Kirchner* as some of his works are here in Melbourne as part of a visiting collection from the *Museum of Modern Art, New York.
*
Phil was the clarinettist in the ensemble Plexus who commissioned _Evolve_ in 2017 (link to listen to that is a couple of pages back).

If there's anyone in or around Melbourne on the *6th of August*, it'd be lovely to have you here! The NGV/MoMA exhibits would definitely be worth visiting.


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## nikola

MarkMcD said:


> Whilst there are various schools of thought on what art and music should and should not be, for me, I think there should always be an element of beauty, something to captivate and inspire the audience. I did find parts of the piece quite intriguing but I can't say I liked it as a whole. I will however defend the right to produce whatever the artist may desire, in the end, the audience can be the only judge of success or failure. It may be possible to analyse the score and find a wealth of technical excellence, but that in itself doesn't guarantee good music. Sorry, I did try, but just not for me.
> 
> Regards
> Mark


I don't agree with this. 
I would send to Gulag all composers who don't compose music that I like. Unfortunately, I don't have enough power to become one of the worst world dictators anytime soon.


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## nikola

I find this piece of music pretty much interesting to listen to. Some fun and even pretty much good parts. 
Phil loves classical should learn from this, so his music wouldn't be so bad and ugly, but good and ugly. Ugliness is fine, but bad music is unforgivable.


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## Phil loves classical

nikola said:


> I find this piece of music pretty much interesting to listen to. Some fun and even pretty much good parts.
> Phil loves classical should learn from this, so his music wouldn't be so bad and ugly, but good and ugly. Ugliness is fine, but bad music is unforgivable.


hey, that's a stereotype. I write some more accessible stuff too. which some people have even called it beautiful  But of course your opinion is the only one I strive for


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## Norman Gunston

shirime said:


> I believe that as soon as any composer seeks to create something beautiful it will be undoubtedly original. Creating something beautiful, for me, is the goal; originality is hopefully a lucky side effect considering that what we find beautiful is a bit different for everyone.


What time you playing and can i bring my Harmonic?


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## Manxfeeder

shirime said:


> If there's anyone in or around Melbourne on the *6th of August*, it'd be lovely to have you here! The NGV/MoMA exhibits would definitely be worth visiting.


Let's see. There's enough time if I stow away on a tramp steamer. If they throw me overboard, know I'm at least there in spirit.


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## Guest

*An Announcement! #2*

For those who can't come down to *Australia* to see any of my upcoming works, I will be having a piece performed in *Hannover, Germany* in September, more details to come later!

In the meantime, I am currently working on a song for soprano, flute and xylophone for a performance on the 22nd of August here in Melbourne. The piece is called _A Spell Had Touched_ and will be performed in a concert hosted by *New Stage*, who have just recently formed to run a concert series devoted to New Music.


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## Jacck

It is great music, interesting and rhytmic. As someone already mentioned, it reminds me of Penderecki too.


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## Guest

Jacck said:


> It is great music, interesting and rhytmic. As someone already mentioned, it reminds me of Penderecki too.


Thanks, Jacck.


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## Guest

shirime said:


> In the meantime, I am currently working on a song for soprano, flute and xylophone for a performance on the 22nd of August here in Melbourne. The piece is called _A Spell Had Touched_ and will be performed in a concert hosted by *New Stage*, who have just recently formed to run a concert series devoted to New Music.


For anyone interested, here is my setting of the *second half* of _A Spell Had Touched._ There are still a few engraving issues I need to fix, more edits I want to make with articulation, but essentially this is what I have been working on.

I always *handwrite* my compositions before I engrave them on a computer. I am moving away from using *Sibelius 7.5* as the software I use to engrave with in favour of using *LilyPond*, which I have found gives me a *lot* more freedom with the visual appearance, fonts, layout etc. etc. etc..........

Does anyone else use *LilyPond*?

The only downside (which I actually believe to be an upside) is that the software doesn't have a playback function like Sibelius, Finale, Dorico, MuseScore et al do. However, what LilyPond *can* do is generate a MIDI file that can be read by any software that can read MIDI (including Sibelius, Finale et al) and perform it back using the instrument samples in their sound library.

SO

This video here is performed on *Sibelius Sounds* but engraved on *LilyPond.*

(and it's a work in progress, still more work I need to do)






X noteheads = key tapping

The first half will prominently feature the xylophone with the soprano. I will also compose a duet for the flute and xylophone between each half.

Thoughts and feedback are much appreciated.


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## St Matthew

I really like this one, the flute writing is superb. The rhythmic melodicism is very appealing to my own gestural tastes. 
I can feel both some Carter and Boulez in the instrumental writing there, though I'm not sure about what I feel with the harmonic content (it sounds awesome though!) after around 1:50, I like the balancing (for a lack of a better term) and growth between the alternating notes of the soprano and flute, I feel the tensions and releases to be very satisfying :tiphat:


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## Guest

St Matthew said:


> I really like this one, the flute writing is superb. The rhythmic melodicism is very appealing to my own gestural tastes.
> I can feel both some Carter and Boulez in the instrumental writing there, though I'm not sure about what I feel with the harmonic content (it sounds awesome though!) after around 1:50, I like the balancing (for a lack of a better term) and growth between the alternating notes of the soprano and flute, I feel the tensions and releases to be very satisfying :tiphat:


After 1:50 it gets a bit more _focussed..........._ the end is nigh, so I set up a return to the opening pitches/gesture. Are there other things you could recommend that I consider? I'd be glad to know. Thanks for the comments!


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## Phil loves classical

shirime said:


> For anyone interested, here is my setting of the *second half* of _A Spell Had Touched._ There are still a few engraving issues I need to fix, more edits I want to make with articulation, but essentially this is what I have been working on.
> 
> I always *handwrite* my compositions before I engrave them on a computer. I am moving away from using *Sibelius 7.5* as the software I use to engrave with in favour of using *LilyPond*, which I have found gives me a *lot* more freedom with the visual appearance, fonts, layout etc. etc. etc..........
> 
> Does anyone else use *LilyPond*?
> 
> The only downside (which I actually believe to be an upside) is that the software doesn't have a playback function like Sibelius, Finale, Dorico, MuseScore et al do. However, what LilyPond *can* do is generate a MIDI file that can be read by any software that can read MIDI (including Sibelius, Finale et al) and perform it back using the instrument samples in their sound library.
> 
> SO
> 
> This video here is performed on *Sibelius Sounds* but engraved on *LilyPond.*
> 
> (and it's a work in progress, still more work I need to do)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X noteheads = key tapping
> 
> The first half will prominently feature the xylophone with the soprano. I will also compose a duet for the flute and xylophone between each half.
> 
> Thoughts and feedback are much appreciated.


I used to use Lilypond, with the relative input, but it could throw everything an octave out, and making small changes can be a real headache to debug afterwards. It works ok with only a few voices, but whole orchestra I can't imagine using it. I never used bothered with the overrides and tweaks. The compiling takes a lot of time too. I only use Musescore now, and don't bother with anything I need to pay for.
?
BTW, is this piece serial, or just going by ear? How do you determine your notes and duration?


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## Guest

Phil loves classical said:


> I used to use Lilypond, with the relative input, but it could throw everything an octave out, and making small changes can be a real headache to debug afterwards. It works ok with only a few voices, but whole orchestra I can't imagine using it. I never used bothered with the overrides and tweaks. The compiling takes a lot of time too. I only use Musescore now, and don't bother with anything I need to pay for.


I see! Yeah, *MuseScore* is great, but I find it much more limited in what it can do. I am a bit obsessive-compulsive about the actual *engraving* of scores that I write; lately I have been very interested in how a score looks and whether it is nice and easy for musicians to read. *LilyPond* gives me way more control than any other scorewriter I have come across, even more so than the paid ones, because it is closer to the amount of control I have over the look and layout of a score if I am engraving completely by hand.

The visual output on *Frescobaldi* really speeds things up when it comes to locating sections of the score where there are problems. Overrides and tweaks _are_ extremely useful!



> BTW, is this piece serial, or just going by ear? How do you determine your notes and duration?


Unlike _Es irrt der Mensch so lang er strebt_ (which uses *serial* procedures amongst other things), _A Spell Had Touched_ is *not serial.* All of my compositions are composed with, I guess, some kind of 'informed intuition,' whereby I can draw on tools and techniques I have learnt to apply to the composition itself and make it sound as musical as I intend.

The pitches are sort of drawn from that opening motif/gesture, which I give what I can only describe as a tonic function (a 'resting place' for the music, I guess). Pitch-wise, the music progresses away from and returns to the opening pitch set (and a few transformations of it) in a linear fashion, much the same way Common Practice Era harmony works but with a non-tonal harmonic language.

The rhythms, also intuitive, are a developing interest of mine in the different gradations between complete rhythmic independence and interdependence and gestural similarities between parts. Whether they fit together homorhythmically or not and whether the gestures themselves are closely related or vastly different at any given moment are different extremes along the spectrum which I explore and exploit for its potential linear functionality. In other pieces I have/am extending this idea even further to include timbre and how I can establish linear functionality to a wide range of playing techniques.


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## E Cristobal Poveda

shirime said:


> I see! Yeah, *MuseScore* is great, but I find it much more limited in what it can do. I am a bit obsessive-compulsive about the actual *engraving* of scores that I write; lately I have been very interested in how a score looks and whether it is nice and easy for musicians to read. *LilyPond* gives me way more control than any other scorewriter I have come across, even more so than the paid ones, because it is closer to the amount of control I have over the look and layout of a score if I am engraving completely by hand.
> 
> The visual output on *Frescobaldi* really speeds things up when it comes to locating sections of the score where there are problems. Overrides and tweaks _are_ extremely useful!
> 
> Unlike _Es irrt der Mensch so lang er strebt_ (which uses *serial* procedures amongst other things), _A Spell Had Touched_ is *not serial.* All of my compositions are composed with, I guess, some kind of 'informed intuition,' whereby I can draw on tools and techniques I have learnt to apply to the composition itself and make it sound as musical as I intend.
> 
> The pitches are sort of drawn from that opening motif/gesture, which I give what I can only describe as a tonic function (a 'resting place' for the music, I guess). Pitch-wise, the music progresses away from and returns to the opening pitch set (and a few transformations of it) in a linear fashion, much the same way Common Practice Era harmony works but with a non-tonal harmonic language.
> 
> The rhythms, also intuitive, are a developing interest of mine in the different gradations between complete rhythmic independence and interdependence and gestural similarities between parts. Whether they fit together homorhythmically or not and whether the gestures themselves are closely related or vastly different at any given moment are different extremes along the spectrum which I explore and exploit for its potential linear functionality. In other pieces I have/am extending this idea even further to include timbre and how I can establish linear functionality to a wide range of playing techniques.


I can understand what you mean. A lot of my written "impromptus" use a type of intentioned atonality mixed with tonality. I don't really compose piano pieces that are actually atonal, but many of them could pass as atonal to an untrained listener.


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## Guest

*A Spell Had Touched*

Okay so here is a completed composition which I sent off for a performance in late August






The score is attached as well; it's the first time I have engraved anything on LilyPond so feedback on the engraving is especially appreciated!

Hope you enjoy. :tiphat:


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## Haydn70

shirime said:


> Okay so here is a completed composition which I sent off for a performance in late August
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The score is attached as well; it's the first time I have engraved anything on LilyPond so feedback on the engraving is especially appreciated!
> 
> Hope you enjoy. :tiphat:


Just some notation suggestions:

1. Beaming: you might consider beaming notes and rests in groups to show clearly where each beat is. I re-notated the first two measures of the piece as an example. I think it will be easier for the instrumentalists to read if notated this way. Of course, it is traditional not to beam vocal parts in this way.









2. Legato/slurs: if the last two (or three, etc.) notes in a group of notes under a legato/slur are tied it is preferred (at least according to my teachers way back when...and the way I have done it for years ) to have the legato/slur end on the right side of the last note, not on the first tied note. I re-notated mm. 60-62 in the flute part as an example.


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## Guest

Thanks, *ArsMusica,* I will consider using stemlets as per your first example, but recently I have found that the more 'usual' way of slurring tied notes (your second example) can look a little messy/confusing across line breaks, hence my avoidance of them.


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## Haydn70

shirime said:


> Thanks, *ArsMusica,* I will consider using stemlets as per your first example, but recently I have found that the more 'usual' way of slurring tied notes (your second example) can look a little messy/confusing across line breaks, hence my avoidance of them.


You are welcome, *shirime*.

One other thing: tempo? I realize that you want to allow a certain amount of freedom for the performers regarding tempo but I think you should at least put some kind of range, e.g., quarter note = 72 - 88 (just grabbing numbers here). After all, you had to designate a tempo for your recording and you state in the notes that the duration is approximately 5'30" to 6'30". As such you do have a clear idea of what tempo range you want.

Are you assuming that the performers will be listening to your recording to get a sense of the tempo? Even so I think you should consider a metronome marking, even if it is a 'wide range'.

Just curious, what playback engine are you using?

By the way I use Finale. Just recently I purchased the NotePerformer playback engine. Many sounds are superior to Garritan Instruments which is the engine that comes with Finale.


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## Guest

I haven't thought about specific tempi as of yet.....once the music is actually being played we would find a good pace and range for the tempo to be set (I'll go back and edit this later) as well as suitable places to adjust the tempo.

I am using the default Sibelius Sounds package that came with my Sibelius programme. I exported a MIDI file to run it through Sibelius to get the audio. I've been fairly content with that sound library. What does NotePerformer sound like?


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## Fredx2098

I like the new piece! It sounds very abstract, surreal, and intricate. I like strange/interesting small ensembles like that, especially with xylophone. At UIC I was working on a piece for xylophone and 2 gongs. I forgot about that, it was pretty cool. I could probably keep working on it without the instruments, but I lost the notebooks I was writing it in.... But I liked your new piece, though the wordless synth vocals were a little distracting!


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## Phil loves classical

I found I liked the parts with all 3 voices together a lot more than the first part with 2 only, regardless how complex the rhythms.


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## zootMutant

shirime said:


> yeh so i thought i'd just post some of my pieces ive done in this thread and you can listen if you want
> 
> heres one, its in a rather more conservative style than i am comfortable with:


I listen to music for many different reasons. Most of the time I'm in 'passive' mode where I am busy doing something else (studying, working, driving) and I expect the music to provide a bland backdrop but occasionally break through my inattentiveness and grab me and force me to listen. Sometimes, however, I shift to 'active' mode, where I focus all my attention on the piece and reflect on my thoughts and emotions.

I listened to the first 30 seconds of this piece in 'passive' mode while reading the comments with mild interest. 

Some of the comments were so harsh that I was jolted out of 'passive' mode into 'active'. I pulled my listening chair (the one with the comfy cushions) close to the computer, turned off the lights, put on my headphones and listened...

For me, music is abstract, but it can never remain abstract for long. It quickly becomes a soundtrack for the silent movie playing in my head. Sometimes I see patterns and colours, sometimes images. In this case I quickly conjured up explorers on a distant world... cautious, wary, determined, expectant. They weren't sure what they would find. Possibly something wonderful over the next rise, but possibly something horrific and tragic.

I'm not saying this is what your music is about, only that this is how it struck me. Judging from the title -- is "Man Is Wrong as Long as He Strives" a correct translation? -- I gather you were trying to convey something else. (Maybe I just read too much science fiction?)

This is not a 'happy-melody' piece, the kind that I'll whistle while I work. It is also not well-suited for listening to in 'passive' mode -- because of the changes in dynamic range and tempo. But if I paid good money to go to a concert and this was one of the pieces played, I'd consider my money well spent. Especially if it were part of an evening of music from different composers highlighting different styles.

... back to reading the comments. 

Cheers,
zoot


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## Guest

Thanks so much for that post, zootMutant! You are very kind. And yep that's a pretty accurate translation; it actually comes from Goethe's _Faust_, not exactly a story that makes me think of 'happy melodies'.


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## Fredx2098

Are you specifically influenced by any composers? I might guess Boulez and Lachenmann.


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## GeorgeMcW

Shirime - really enjoyed this. Thank you for sharing! Love the texture and sonorities.


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## Guest

Fredx2098 said:


> Are you specifically influenced by any composers? I might guess Boulez and Lachenmann.


I'm constantly composing whilst looking at as much of western music history as I can......I think rhythmically and textrually I have been most inspired by _ars subtilior_ up to high Renaissance polyphony more than anything! I am certainly influenced by Boulez and Lachenmann, but more for their values than their personal aesthetic sound. (Boulez and Lachenmann sound _extremely_ different to me and I actually can't easily imagine what a combination of the two would sound like).


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## Guest

GeorgeMcW said:


> Shirime - really enjoyed this. Thank you for sharing! Love the texture and sonorities.


Thanks, GeorgeMcW.


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## Guest

*Mit den Augen Kirchners (work in progress)*

I've really had to power through and compose as quickly as I can to get music to people on time. Here's the first three minutes of a clarinet piece I am working on.........

If there are (boehm system) clarinettists around these parts, do the multiphonics work? Do you have any advice on them?

also: 'timbre' over a wavy trill line = timbre trill (rapidly alternating between two fingerings of a single pitch)


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## Fredx2098

shirime said:


> I'm constantly composing whilst looking at as much of western music history as I can......I think rhythmically and textrually I have been most inspired by _ars subtilior_ up to high Renaissance polyphony more than anything! I am certainly influenced by Boulez and Lachenmann, but more for their values than their personal aesthetic sound. (Boulez and Lachenmann sound _extremely_ different to me and I actually can't easily imagine what a combination of the two would sound like).


That sounds very interesting. I love pre-Baroque music. I feel like it's more free and creative than, ya know, common practice, but I'm not familiar with the term ars subtilior. Could you recommend some pieces that have inspired you? I'm listening to some random stuff on youtube and it sounds great.

I definitely see what you mean about being inspired by the values of Boulez and Lachenmann as opposed to their sound. Your music seems to explore the intricacies of music in a similar way as those two without actually having a similar sound. I think a piece tonally inspired by both of them at once would sound very interesting though.

The clarinet piece you're working on looks very interesting. I love your intricate, abstract rhythms and melodies (though as a less than virtuosic musician I'd be a little intimidated to play it, namely that xylophone part in the other piece, as a percussionist). I wasn't aware that wind instruments could make multiple tones. I look forward to hearing that performed.


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## Guest

Thanks heaps, Fred! Yep, wind instruments can play a variety of multiphonics. They sound very beautiful on clarinet:


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## Guest

Also, what I find so attractive about _ars subtilior_ as a style is the extraordinary rhythmic independence of each line. Amazingly free counterpoint! The way I like to write rhythms is more 'gestural' than in pieces like this one, but the idea of each part _not quite lining up_ with the other(s) is inspiring to me.

Apologies for the lack of actual musicians here, but this is the only score video of modern notation that can really show how complex rhythm and texture can be in this kind of music:


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## Fredx2098

Wow, that sounds amazing. They each sound like an automatic Feldman chord. I love the sound of clarinets, on top of that.


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## Fredx2098

shirime said:


> Also, what I find so attractive about _ars subtilior_ as a style is the extraordinary rhythmic independence of each line. Amazingly free counterpoint! The way I like to write rhythms is more 'gestural' than in pieces like this one, but the idea of each part _not quite lining up_ with the other(s) is inspiring to me.
> 
> Apologies for the lack of actual musicians here, but this is the only score video of modern notation that can really show how complex rhythm and texture can be in this kind of music:


That's so awesome!

Each part not lining up is a common trait of Feldman's music if you didn't know. Like at the very beginning of For Philip Guston, each instrument is playing the same melody one note per measure, and each of the measures line up on the sheet music, but there's a different time signature for each instrument for each measure. The concept of precisely composing music to sound abstract and sort of random is super cool to me.


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## Guest

*Mit den Augen Kirchners*

A few weeks ago I was asked to compose a seven minute solo clarinet piece to accompany Kirchner's painting _Street, Dresden_, which is visiting the National Gallery of Victoria from MoMA, NY as part of their exhibition here. I was really fascinated by Kirchner's ability to create a sense of a busy city but almost entirely through painting _people_ rather than a scene of buildings. There's an odd asymmetry to the painting as well and a large gap of uncomfortable, pink ground that inspired me to interrupt streams of rapid notes with held multiphonics and air sounds on the clarinet.

This is what I have managed to complete (score is attached as well):


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## Phil loves classical

shirime said:


> A few weeks ago I was asked to compose a seven minute solo clarinet piece to accompany Kirchner's painting _Street, Dresden_, which is visiting the National Gallery of Victoria from MoMA, NY as part of their exhibition here. I was really fascinated by Kirchner's ability to create a sense of a busy city but almost entirely through painting _people_ rather than a scene of buildings. There's an odd asymmetry to the painting as well and a large gap of uncomfortable, pink ground that inspired me to interrupt streams of rapid notes with held multiphonics and air sounds on the clarinet.
> 
> This is what I have managed to complete (score is attached as well):


I think this is the piece that resonates with me the most. With the manipulation of timbre, and sonority and fluid rhythms and horizontal harmony.


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## Guest

Phil loves classical said:


> I think this is the piece that resonates with me the most. With the manipulation of timbre, and sonority and fluid rhythms and horizontal harmony.


Thanks! Achieving a sense of 'fluidity' with streams of irregularly divisive 'beats' has been a challenge I've been working to achieve over the last few years. I hope I can still fine tune those kinds of rhythms and get an even better feel for them so I can use them more intuitively in later works....................


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## ollv

Do not listen anyone). Thats good athmospheric sound. But it is not enough for me, there are trick which used in last fragments viola. (Sliding) It should be more.. more like of this. It was very testy. Also
ritmic picture.. able to improve.


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## Guest

*moving(,)meaning (work in progress)*

Been working on a new piece, this time for a local ensemble who will record it for me. The 'air sounds' in the flute and clarinet parts follow the same notational principle as in _Mit den Augen Kirchners_ but I do want some feedback about the notation in the other instrumental parts.......................


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## Fredx2098

shirime said:


> Been working on a new piece, this time for a local ensemble who will record it for me. The 'air sounds' in the flute and clarinet parts follow the same notational principle as in _Mit den Augen Kirchners_ but I do want some feedback about the notation in the other instrumental parts.......................


I'm surprised that you've written a piano and percussion part that I might be able to play! One question: what do you mean by "hit"? That seems like a rather vague term that could be interpreted in many ways. Does it mean to hit the piano with the side of your fists rather than the knuckles? If so, perhaps "pound" would be a better word. Also, it seems like there are many different places on a piano that you can hit to make different tones; are there specific spots you want it to be hit? It would also vary greatly between different types of pianos. It seems very interesting like some "musique concrète instrumentale" if you will.


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## Vasks

.......wrong posting...


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## Guest

Fredx2098 said:


> I'm surprised that you've written a piano and percussion part that I might be able to play! One question: what do you mean by "hit"? That seems like a rather vague term that could be interpreted in many ways. Does it mean to hit the piano with the side of your fists rather than the knuckles? If so, perhaps "pound" would be a better word. Also, it seems like there are many different places on a piano that you can hit to make different tones; are there specific spots you want it to be hit? It would also vary greatly between different types of pianos. It seems very interesting like some "musique concrète instrumentale" if you will.


Hmmm yes, I'm not yet sure _where_ the instruments should be hit, knocked or tapped, so I will have to experiment. I do exactly know that I want the cellist and violinist to hit the body of their instruments with their hands, so I will probably just specify that in the next version of the score.


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## Guest

https://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/program/mso-at-ngv-modern-music/

REPERTOIRE
Jessop Maticevski Shumack, Mit den Augen Kirchners (2018, World Premiere)
Terry Riley, In C (1964)
Tom Johnson, Composition With Descending Chromatic Scales In Eight-Voice Canon Played In Three Ways, Separated By Two Piano Interludes, Which Bring The Music Back Up To Its Starting Position (1993)

PERFORMERS
PLEXUS - 2018 MSO Ensemble in Residence
Philip Arkinstall, clarinet
Stefan Cassomenos, piano/glockenspiel
Monica Curro, violin

SPEAKERS
Monica Curro, violinist, PLEXUS
Jessop Maticevski Shumack, composer
Dr Ted Gott, Senior Curator, International Art, NGV International


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

^Wow, that's is pretty impressive COAG


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## aleazk

I assume that fella holding a violin is a recent picture of the composer featured in this concert?


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## Guest

Currently working on a piece called _Palimpsest_ for string quartet for a performance in Hannover in September. So far, the piece has the same number of bars as the fourth movement of Mozart's String Quartet no. 19, but takes material from the movement and re-invents the material as an interlocking web of vaguely related gestures. The form of the piece doesn't follow any tonal or phrasal plan of the original material, but it does examine the textures, registers and articulations of the original as some sort of starting point to create a form for the new music written over the old.


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## MarkMcD

Very interesting concept. I write poetry from time to time and once did a similar thing with Coleridge and Xanadu, taking the same word count, meter and phrasing, each first line letter, but completely different subject matter. It worked really well, but I never thought about applying that method to music. Thanks, I think it might well be worth an experiment or two.


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## Guest

The flyer has been made for the upcoming Hannover concert.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Quite liked the clarinet piece


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## Guest

Googled my name and found this:

_Wir haben drei junge Komponisten von drei unterschiedlichen Kontinenten beauftragt, für den Abend zu komponieren und sich mit dem Vorbild Mozart auseinanderzusetzen. Auf diese Uraufführungen darf das Publikum besonders gespannt sein - denn es wird auch provokante Ansätze geben wie der Arbeitstitel ‚I Killed Mozart' des 21jährigen australischen Komponisten Jessop Maticevski-Shumack verspricht, der mit seinen jungen Jahren schon auf eine beeindruckende Werkliste verweisen kann."_ (Thorsten Encke)

https://www.hannover.de/UNESCO-City...y-of-Music/„Jupiter“-–-oder-„I-Killed-Mozart“

I still think I will use the phrase 'I killed Mozart' somewhere in the programme notes for the piece.


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## Guest

Thread where you can hear the audio from the concert. Interesting to read the review in relation to the music!

Palimpsest

EDIT: I'm actually starting work on a new work for string quartet unrelated to _Palimpsest_ but I think there's a lot I've learnt from that previous effort I can take into writing a much more effective piece.

EDIT2: I forgot to post the reviews 
http://m.haz.de/Nachrichten/Kultur/Musica-assoluta-spielt-I-killed-Mozart
http://m.neuepresse.de/Nachrichten/Kultur/Beim-Jupiter!-Musica-Assoluta-startet-in-die-Saison


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