# The TC Top 100+ Modern Classical Music List



## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

(using same outline as Trout's thread)

*Introduction*

This is part of a series of the TC Top Recommended Lists project (previous ones can be seen here).

(This list was made as a reaction to the Modern Classical Music Project.)



> The project philosophy is summarized below:
> 
> - The TalkClassical members with a wide variety of interests and experiences can reach a consensus on the top works from a variety of musical forms.
> - The process should lead to some interesting debate and discussion regarding these various specialized areas of music.
> - The resulting list will be posted as a Sticky Thread and may be used as reference points for both newcomers and long-time classical listeners to the world of classical music and to specific areas of classical music as defined by these lists.


*Pre-Nomination Discussion*

Before we begin voting, we're going to have to make a set of criteria collectively. Or in other words, we must agree on the requirements for works to be nominated.

And here is what I think (which of course will need to be edited):

1. It can be of any genre of any sort (as long as it's "classical"), film music is iffy but I'll let that be part of the discussion.
2. The general rule of thumb is that it should be post-1900. There are, of course, *EXCEPTIONS* to this rule, such as Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun. Mahler, Elgar, Puccini, Rachmaninoff, Rimsky-Korsakov, Grieg, Saint-Saens, Sibelius, and R. Strauss are not allowed, but early Schoenberg, Ravel, Debussy, and Satie are. Scriabin and others are going to be a problem. But we'll discuss this.
3. Neoclassical and other neo-whatever are allowed (e.g. Stravinsky).
4. We'll consider works such as Ligeti's Etudes as a single work if they are almost always recorded as a group, if they are not collectively too large - not more than 2 or 3 hours - and if the individual components wouldn't merit much consideration alone. These are vague guidelines because no very firm rule will fit all cases, so the community of participants can discuss any particular ambiguous choices. (from science's Classical Music Project)
5. The work must be published (I'm looking at you, CoAG)
6. We'll cross bridges when we come to them.

The first round should start in a couple of days once the qualifications are solidified and everyone has had enough time to listen and brainstorm their selections.

All users (new and old) are welcome to join! Ask question is needed about the criteria, or if the work you want to nominate fits the criteria, or whatever.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Anything on this list is applicable.

Adams: Harmonielehre
Adams: Nixon in China
Barber: Violin Concerto, Op. 14
Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra, Sz. 116, BB 123
Bartók: Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, Sz. 106, BB 104
Bartók: Piano Concerto No. 2 in G major, Sz. 95, BB 101
Bartók: String Quartet No. 4, Sz. 91, BB 95
Bartók: Violin Concerto No. 2, Sz. 112, BB 117
Berg: Piano Sonata, Op. 1
Berg: Violin Concerto
Berg: Wozzeck, Op. 7
Berg: Lyric Suite
Britten: War Requiem, Op. 66
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Crumb: Black Angels
Debussy: Images pour piano, Sets 1 and 2, L 110 and L 111
Debussy: La mer, L 109
Debussy: Pelléas et Mélisande, L 88
Debussy: Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, L 86
Debussy: Préludes, Books 1 and 2, L 117 and L 123
Dutilleux: Tout un monde lointain…
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue
Gershwin: Porgy and Bess
Glass: Akhnaten
Górecki: Symphony of Sorrowful Songs, Op. 36
Ives: The Unanswered Question
Ligeti: Atmosphères
Ligeti: Études, Books 1, 2, and 3
Ligeti: Lux Aeterna
Ligeti: Requiem
Lutosławski: Symphony No. 3
Lutosławski: Concerto for Orchestra
Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
Messiaen: Turangalîla-Symphonie
Messiaen: Vingt regards sur l'enfant-Jésus
Pärt: Fratres
Pärt: Tabula Rasa
Penderecki: Symphony No. 7 "7 Gates of Jerusalem"
Penderecki: Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima
Poulenc: Gloria, FP 177
Prokofiev: Cinderella, Op. 87
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 3 in C major, Op. 26
Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 7 in B-flat major "Stalingrad", Op. 83
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet, Op. 64
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 5 in B-flat major, Op. 100
Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 1 in D major, Op. 19
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé, M. 57
Ravel: Gaspard de la nuit, M. 55
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major, M. 83
Ravel: Piano Trio in A minor, M. 67
Ravel: String Quartet in F major, M. 35
Reich: Different Trains
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
Satie: Gymnopédies
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso No. 1
Schnittke: Viola Concerto
Schoenberg: Moses und Aron
Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire, Op. 21
Schoenberg: String Quartet No. 2, Op. 10
Schoenberg: Verklärte Nacht, Op. 4
Shostakovich: Piano Trio No. 2 in E minor, Op. 67
Shostakovich: Piano Quintet in G minor, Op. 57
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 3 in F major, Op. 73
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8 in C minor, Op. 110
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 in D minor, Op. 47
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 10 in E minor, Op. 93
Stockhausen: Gruppen
Stravinsky: The Firebird
Stravinsky: Petrushka
Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
Varèse: Amériques
Villa-Lobos: Bachianas Brasilieras
Webern: Six Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 6

I personally think late Scriabin should fit the criteria, but the definition of "late" is a grey zone.

Also, some people on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_20th-century_classical_composers_by_birth_date are controversial (e.g. Elgar, Mahler) I think we should use this as a guide and then create our own list of composers that are applicable.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Might I suggest that the nominations in this thread be post-1911 instead of post-1900.

This could aid in the editing away of a lot of "grey" area music composed after the 19th century up to and including the year of death of Mahler.

Also, focusing on 1912 through present would yield an even 100-year period.

I'm thinking a possible rule-of-thumb criteria could be: "If it's over age 100, it's excluded "

What would be your thought on this?


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

My thought is that anything less than 100 years old isn't classical music. But that's a completely different discussion...


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Because it is a rule of thumb and there are exceptions, then I don't see the problem. But some problems arise when there are romantic composers who still composed past 1912 (e.g. R. Strauss's Eine Alpensinfonie), so there's still that grey area involved, so we'll still have to create a definitive list of composers that are applicable and not applicable.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I'd like to suggest that, rather than having a set of arbitrary rules to determine what qualifies, we let the group decide on a case by case basis and incorporate that into the voting process. Anyone can nominate any piece they want. Borderline pieces are not likely to receive enough support to make it past the nomination round. That in and of itself will serve as a disincentive for people to nominate questionable pieces because they would potentially be wasting one of their votes by doing so. 
If, by chance, such a piece does make it past the nomination round and to the voting round, it can be challenged by anyone, which would trigger a separate vote on whether or not it should be allowed. Any piece can only be challenged one time. If it wins the challenge it is eligible for inclusion even if it doesn't make the list that round. If the challenge is successful it can no longer be nominated. The list moderator will abstain from voting except when needed to break a tie.

Just a suggestion as a way to avoid arbitrary rules. I'll participate regardless.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

There is a good case to be made for having things decided on a case by case basis, but I still think we should discuss this so that there are guidelines.

One issue I had with the 'Modern Project' was that it ended up being very conservative and leaning heavily into the romantic composers working in the early 20thc. I hope that this project will actually focus on 'modern' music.


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

How about basing it off of the composer's first published work? Any composer who's first work was published prior to 1912 doesn't qualify.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

^A lot of composers are knocked out if we do that. (e.g. Debussy, RVW, Stravinsky)

I like SuperTonic's suggestion, but if we do that, then the deadlines for voting are going to have to be pretty long (5-7 days?)


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

dmg said:


> How about basing it off of the composer's first published work? Any composer who's first work was published prior to 1912 doesn't qualify.


Its an interesting idea, but it would for example, exclude any work by Stravinsky whose later works certainly qualify as 'modern'.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Before we start going crazy about the definition of "modern", can we first decide if film music, like Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky, belongs here?


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

As a soundtrack collector myself, there are 100s of favorites I have in this medium (which should have its own thread/category).

As much as I love film scores, I say film music should not be included in this thread.

There's quite enough concert music as it is which hardly gets recognition; pitting film scores against such concert pieces is _too_ much competition, I think.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm okay with excluding film scores, but what about cases, such as Alexander Nevsky or Lieutenant Kije, where the composer arranged a concert suite from the film score?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

I think the concert suite (and cantata, in the case of Alexander Nevsky) should be allowed.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

SuperTonic said:


> I'm okay with excluding film scores, but what about cases, such as Alexander Nevsky or Lieutenant Kije, where the composer arranged a concert suite from the film score?


I would say film scores should be okay if the composer primarily does their work in classical music.


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

I like the post-1911 thought. But that would also mean that some early expressionistic works by Schoenberg and Webern will be excluded. I think we can make an exception. Atonal pieces are applicable, and atonality is still modern even if it was written more than a 100 years ago.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

I still like SuperTonic's idea where we can challenge a work if we think it's not modern enough. The rigid date measurement is too narrow and doesn't incorporate the fact that there were romantic compositions after 1911 and modern before it. Even though there are exceptions, those exceptions are obviously going to be controversial, which is where SuperTonic's idea comes into play.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I mostly like these from your list:

Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 3 in F major, Op. 73
Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8 in C minor, Op. 110
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 in D minor, Op. 47
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue

Is Hovhaness a good candidate for this thread?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Yes, he is.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

If there are no further discussions on the criteria, then I think we should start brainstorming.

Here are the edited guidelines (which are not written in stone):

1. The rule of thumb is post-1911, with exceptions. However, this does not mean everything post-1911 is eligible.
2. You can nominate anything that you think is modern, but anyone can challenge this (during the nomination rounds) by commenting, and when two people challenge, we'll have a separate vote to see if it is eligible. If the majority agrees that it is eligible, then the piece stays. If the majority agrees that is not eligible, then the piece goes, and the nominator(s) must change their vote, and the piece can never be nominated again. Appeals can be made if the nominator absolutely thinks the piece is modern, but needs to have good reasoning.

Or we can avoid this altogether during the brainstorm.

3. Film scores are not allowed, but arrangements by the composer him/herself (e.g. Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky -> cantata) are.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Hovhaness Symphony No. 22 4/4

Buying some votes for Hovhaness!


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

I'm interested. And I nominate Janáček's _String Quartet #2_.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Is Ravel's Introduction and Allegro for Harp, Flute, Clarinet, and String Quartet eligible?


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

> 1. The rule of thumb is post-1911, with exceptions.


I think we should drop all post-1911 Debussy and Ravel works, as well as romantic Schoenberg. Expressionist Schoenberg, Webern, and maybe Ives, should be eligible. The 1890-1911 era is somewhat fading away from today's concept of "modern" music. Something happened with music around the outbreak of the Great War. The Rite had profound impact on modern classical music.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

berghansson said:


> I think we should drop all post-1911 Debussy and Ravel works, as well as romantic Schoenberg. Expressionist Schoenberg, Webern, and maybe Ives, should be eligible. The 1890-1911 era is somewhat fading away from today's concept of "modern" music. Something happened with music around the outbreak of the Great War. The Rite had profound impact on modern classical music.


This means only expressionist, neo-classical and minimalist music?

What about J.Adams' 'Chairman Dances' as a nominee?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

The Chairman Dances is eligible.

I disagree with dropping all Debussy because there are some things that actually sound modern, like Set 2 of his Preludes. Same with Ravel and his Piano Concerto in G.


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

Oops..  I actually meant to drop all *pre*-1911 Debussy and Ravel works! When it comes to Debussy he sounded and approached a very modern style in his final years, like the Preludes Set 2, Jeux, and the fantastic Sonata for Cello and Piano.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

I want to say yes to that, but I also want to drop Bolero (1928) then.


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

Ok. But it seems that I'm the only one here who actually likes Bolero.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

If there are no further questions/comments/whatever, I'll start Round 1 tomorrow.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Arsakes said:


> This means only expressionist, neo-classical and minimalist music?


No, you can have nearly every style that was active in the 20th/21st century.

To name a few others; serialism, electronic music, futurism, spectralism, post-minimalism, conceptual stuff, new simplicity etc...


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

To confirm, these composers are absolutely not allowed:

Mahler, Elgar, Puccini, Rachmaninoff, Rimsky-Korsakov, Grieg, Saint-Saens, Sibelius, R. Strauss, Myaskovsky, Satie, Holst, Scriabin, Beach, EARLY Schoenberg (Verklarte Nacht, Gurrelieder, String Quartet No. 1), EARLY Debussy (pre-1911, Nocturnes, Images, La mer, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, String Quartet, Danses sacree et profane, Suite bergamasque, Pour le piano, Preludes BOOK 1, Pelleas et Melisande), EARLY Ravel (pre-1911, Daphnis et Chloe, Sheherazade, Jeux d'eau, String Quartet, Introduction et Allegro, Rapsodie espagnole, Gaspard de la nuit), EARLY Janacek (pre-1911), EARLY Nielsen (pre-1911), EARLY Zemlinsky (pre-1911), EARLY Vaughan Williams (pre-1911), EARLY Bartok, EARLY Enescu

I'm too lazy to go through the rest...

I'll start in a few hours.


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

I really hope The Rite of Spring qualifies! 

But how about the other two (Firebird and Petrushka)? Is it EARLY Stravinsky?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

All of Stravinsky is eligible (especially his Ballet Russes ballets).

Maybe not Pulcinella...


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

*Round 1: Nominations*
for Positions 1 to 10

Criteria:
1. It can be of any genre of any sort (as long as it's "classical"), EXCEPT film music. However, if the composer has arranged the music into a suite, for example, then the suite is eligible (e.g. Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky).

2. The general rule of thumb is that it should be post-1911. The following is a list that is NOT eligible:
Mahler, Elgar, Puccini, Rachmaninoff, Rimsky-Korsakov, Grieg, Saint-Saens, Sibelius, R. Strauss, Myaskovsky, Satie, Holst, Scriabin, Beach, EARLY Schoenberg (pre-1906), EARLY Debussy (pre-1911), EARLY Ravel (pre-1911), EARLY Janacek (pre-1911), EARLY Nielsen (pre-1911), EARLY Zemlinsky (pre-1911), EARLY Vaughan Williams (pre-1910), EARLY Bartok (pre-1907), EARLY Enescu (pre-1911)

3. Neoclassical works and other neo- works are allowed (e.g. Stravinsky).

4. We'll consider works such as Ligeti's Etudes as a single work if they are almost always recorded as a group, if they are not collectively too large - not more than 2 or 3 hours - and if the individual components wouldn't merit much consideration alone.

5. You can nominate anything that you think is modern, but anyone can challenge this (during the nomination rounds) by commenting, and when two people challenge, we'll have a separate vote to see if it is eligible. If the majority agrees that it is eligible, then the piece stays. If the majority agrees that is not eligible, then the piece goes, and the nominator(s) must change their vote, and the piece can never be nominated again. Appeals can be made if the nominator absolutely thinks the piece is modern, but needs to have good reason to do so.

6. The work must be published.

(*A list of works on the project not eligible: Daphnis et Chloe, Prelude a l'apres-midi dun faun, La mer, Gaspard de la nuit, Verklarte Nacht, Images pour piano, String Quartet by Ravel and Debussy, Introduction et allegro, Nocturnes)

*Nominate your top 15 favorite modern works in order of preference.*

This round will close in 60 hours.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

I think the entire list should just be post-1911 to make the guidelines more concise and then disregard any "non-modern" pieces/composers.



Toddlertoddy said:


> *Nominate your top 15 favorite orchestral works in order of preference.*


Only orchestral?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

1. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
2. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
3. Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8
4. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
5. Schoenberg: Pierrot Lunaire
6. Stravinsky: Petrushka
7. Stravinsky: The Firebird
8. Ligeti: Lux Aeterna
9. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
10. Berg: Violin Concerto
11. Crumb: Black Angels
12. Stockhausen: Gruppen
13. Varese: Ameriques
14. Part: Tabula Rasa
15. Bartok: Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Trout said:


> I think the entire list should just be post-1911 to make the guidelines more concise and then disregard any "non-modern" pieces/composers.
> 
> Only orchestral?


Woops. It should be all genres

Also, the strict post-1911 guideline will include R. Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie (e.g.), but won't include The Firebird (e.g.), which seems weird.

EDIT: Oh wait, I totally ignored your last comment about disregarding the non-modern...

But still, not including the Firebird is weird.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Toddlertoddy said:


> Also, the strict post-1911 guideline will include R. Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie (e.g.), but won't include The Firebird (e.g.), which seems weird.


...which is why I said to disregard those "non-modern" pieces or composers after implementing the 1911 requirement. And we could always "cheat" with the Firebird by nominating its 1945 suite, for example. 

Though, I am confused as to why this list should be devoid of any pieces that are not considered modern even if they were composed in modern times. This list is supposed to represent our favorite pieces from the last century, not pieces that are the most "modern," no?


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

My number 15 is confusing. I would make it _The Firebird,_ which I see you nominated, but that was composed in 1910. If it is eligible, then I'll replace it. But I'm also not sure if _The Lark Ascending_ is modern enough, but you nominated _Tallis Fantasia_, so I figured it was. If it isn't, I'll substitute it with Britten's _Peter Grimes._ Unless of course _The Firebird_ is eligible, in which case ignore the last two sentences.

1. Janáček: _String Quartet #2_
2. Crumb: _Black Angels_
3. Berg: _Wozzeck_
4. Stravinsky: _The Rite of Spring_
5. Berg: _Violin Concerto_
6. Shostakovich: _String Quartet #8_
7. Britten: _War Requiem_
8. Messiaen: _ Quartet for the End of Time_
9. Britten: _Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings_
10. Berio: _Coro_
11. Stravinsky: _Petrushka_
12. Bartók: _String Quartet #4_
13. Schoenberg: _Violin Concerto_
14. Bartók: _Violin Concerto #2_
15. Vaughan Williams: _The Lark Ascending_


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

Trout said:


> Though, I am confused as to why this list should be devoid of any pieces that are not considered modern even if they were composed in modern times. This list is supposed to represent our favorite pieces from the last century, not pieces that are the most "modern," no?


I wonder if we're stretching the definition of 'modern.' Even if it were a survey of the last 100 years, that's an awful lot of music from contrasting styles to make into an ordered list. I wonder if a list of post-WWII works would be more insightful. It would certainly be filled with modern works, regardless of the composer's idiom.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Even post-WWII is still full of contrasting styles. Compare Glass to Stockhausen to Rautavaara. But here's my reasoning for including WWI:

If we label this list as "modern", we might expect music that is atonal or "unconventional", so if we only include post-WWII, then we exclude the 2nd Viennese School and others. But if we just label the list as post-WWII, then I would wonder why we would pick such an arbitrary date. The reason I say post-1911 is to give a general idea, not a rigid criterion that only limits the works past that date. Again, it's arbitrary, but I didn't specify that it HAS to be past that the date. So if we say post-WWII, and someone wanted to nominate a work from 1944 (or 1938), John Cage for example, and it was very avant-garde, would we include it?


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Let's see how many of my nominations will be shot down...

1. Vaughan Williams - Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
2. Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
3. Stravinsky - Petrushka
4. Ravel - Daphnis et Chloé
5. Messiaen - Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps
6. Bartók - Concerto for Orchestra
7. Stravinsky - The Firebird
8. Copland - Appalachian Spring
9. Respighi - The Pines of Rome
10. Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10 in E minor
11. Prokofiev - Romeo and Juliet
12. Varèse - Amériques
13. Shostakovich - String Quartet No. 8 in C minor
14. Glière - Symphony No. 3 in B minor "Ilya Muromets"
15. Bartók - Violin Concerto No. 2


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Trout said:


> Let's see how many of my nominations will be shot down...
> 
> 1. Vaughan Williams - Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
> 2. Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
> ...


Ravel definitely.

Not sure about Gliere or Resphigi. I would challenge the Gliere though.

You were totally asking for it.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Toddlertoddy said:


> Ravel definitely.


And what makes _Daphnis et Chloé_ any less modern than, say, _Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis_ (which you, yourself, nominated)?


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

1. Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
2. Schoenberg - Pierrot Lunaire
3. Barber - Adagio for Strings
4. Shostakovich - Symphony #10
5. Shostakovich - String Quartet #8
6. Stravinsky - The Firebird
7. Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time
8. Berg - Wozzek
9. Britten - Peter Grimes
10. Messiaen - Turangalila Symphony
11. Prokofiev - Symphony #5
12. Schoenberg - Chamber Symphony #1
13. Webern - 5 Pieces for Orchestra
14. Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra
15. Ligeti - Etudes for Piano


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Looks like Gaspard de la nuit is disqualified as well.

1. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
2. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
3. Ravel: Piano Concerto in G
4. Shostakovich: String Quartet No.8
5. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
6. Britten: War Requiem
7. Barber: Violin Concerto
8. Pärt: Tabula Rasa
9. Berg: Wozzeck
10. Shostakovich: Symphony No.5
11. Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.3
12. Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time
13. Berg: Violin Concerto
14. Gorecki: Symphony of Sorrowful Songs
15. Stravinsky: Firebird


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

1. Aarre Merikanto's symphonic poem PAN (1924), opus 28
2. Charles Koechlin's QUINTETTE for Piano and Strings (1921), opus 80
3. Giacinto Scelsi's UAXUCTUM for Ondes Martenot, 7 percussionists, timpanist, chorus, & 23 instruments (1966)
4. Arne Nordheim's SPUR for Accordion and Orchestra (1974)
5. Edgard Varese's ECUATORIAL for Bass Voice, Brass, Piano, Organ, 2 Ondes Martenot & Percussion (1934)
6. Roberto Gerhard's SYMPHONY NO.4 "New York" (1967)
7. Karol Szymanowski's SYMPHONY NO.3 "Song Of The Night" for Tenor, Chorus & Orchestra (1916), opus 27
8. Andre Caplet's LE MIROIR DE JESUS for Mezzo-Soprano, Harp, String Quartet, Contrebass, & Chorus (1923)
9. HAFIS for Chorus and Orchestra (1965), opus 63 by Jon Leifs
10. Erik Bergman's DREAMS for female chorus (1977), opus 85
11. Luis de Pablo's DANZAS SECRETAS for solo Harp and Orchestra (2007)
12. Andre Jolivet's MANDALA for solo Organ (1969)
13. LA NOCHE TRISTE - an Opera in 5 Tableaux (1989) by Jean Prodromides
14. Maurice Ohana's LUX NOCTIS for Children's Chorus and 3 Choirs of 16, 32 & 64 Voices and 2 Organs & Percussion (1988)
15. Henri Dutilleux's L'ARBRE DES SONGES for Violin and Orchestra (1985)


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

1. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
2. Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé
3. Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra
4. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
5. Reich: Music for 18 musicians
6. Stravinsky: The Firebird
7. Messiaen: Turangalîla-Symphonie
8. Ligeti: Lux Aeterna
9. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
10. Berg: Violin Concerto
11. Prokofiev: Symphony No. 5
12. Crumb: Black Angels
13. Pärt: Tabula Rasa
14. Ligeti: Etudes for piano
15. Adams: Harmonielehre


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I have to cheat and listen to all music you suggest and I have in my collection. It seems everything is allowed!

1. Shostakovitch - Symphony # 5
Vaughan Williams - Fantasia on a Theme
Shostakovitch - Piano Concerto # 2
Hovhaness - Symphony No. 22 'City of Light' Op. 236
Ravel - Daphnis et Chloé
Shostakovitch - String Quartet # 8
Prokofiev - Romeo and Juliet
Hovhaness - Concerto # 8 for the orchestra
Shostakovitch - Symphony # 7
Bartok - Piano Concerto # 1
Shostakovitch - Symphony # 3
Roussel - Symphony # 3
Bartók - Violin Concerto # 2
Shostakovitch - Violin Concerto # 2
15. Stravinsky - Petrushka (actually it is a good composition)


My list is consisted of Shostakovitch and others to fill the list :lol:
Many are reserved for the next rounds.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Trout said:


> And what makes _Daphnis et Chloé_ any less modern than, say, _Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis_ (which you, yourself, nominated)?


I think we should eliminate all Vaughan Williams (and Daphnis et Chloe) then.

Does everyone agree?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

1.	Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis	
2.	Shostakovich: Symphony No.5	
3.	Barber: Violin Concerto	
4.	Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.3	
5.	Shostakovitch: Piano Concerto # 1	
6.	Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet	
7.	Part: Tabula Rasa	
8.	Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé	
9.	Prokofiev: Symphony #5	
10.	Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring	
11.	Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony	
12.	Copland: Appalachian Spring	
13.	Barber: Adagio for Strings	
14.	Janáček: String Quartet #2	
15.	Berg: Violin Concerto	

On the issue of Vaughan Williams and Daphnis et Chloe I disagree. I would strongly oppose Daphnis et Chloe being cut, but I would probably have less qualms about VW.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I would hate to not be able to nominate Vaughan-Williams' late symphonies. I think at least those should be allowed (Symphony #4 and later).


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

1. Zimmermann Die Soldaten
2. Berg Wozzeck
3. Schoenberg Moses und Aaron
4. Berg violin Concerto
5. Stravinsky Rite of Spring
6. Boulez Le marteau sans maitre
7. Bartok Concerto for Orchestra
8. Berio Sinfonia
9. Ligeti Piano concerto
10. Webern 6 pieces
11. Adams Harmonielehre
12. Messiaen Quatuor pour le fin de temps
13. Bartok Quartet 5
14. Schoenberg 2nd Quartet
15. Ravel Daphnis (if allowed, otherwise Piano Concerto G)


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Let's eliminate Vaughan Williams's works written before 1924. Agree? That means Symphony no. 4 to no. 9, Piano Concerto, Concerto Grosso, Job, and the Oboe Concerto are allowed.

And we'll allow Daphnis because the consensus is to keep it.


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

Bump

And those who voted for Vaughan Williams' Fantasia can replace it (maybe with the Turangalila-symphony ).


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

New vote (replacing my last one with VW Fantasia)

1.	Shostakovich: Symphony No.5	
2.	Barber: Violin Concerto	
3.	Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.3	
4.	Shostakovitch: Piano Concerto # 1	
5.	Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet	
6.	Part: Tabula Rasa	
7.	Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé	
8.	Prokofiev: Symphony #5	
9.	Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring	
10.	Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony	
11.	Copland: Appalachian Spring	
12.	Barber: Adagio for Strings	
13.	Janáček: String Quartet #2	
14.	Berg: Violin Concerto	
15.	Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Instead of Vaughan Williams: 
*Britten - Concerto for Piano*


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

*Round 1: Voting*
for Positions 1 to 10

Top 10 so far:

1. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
2. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
3. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
4. Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8
5. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
6. Berg: Violin Concerto
7. Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe
8. Stravinsky: The Firebird
9. Berg: Wozzeck
10. Stravinsky: Petrushka

Vote for *five* of the previous works in order of preference.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

1. Stavinsky - The Rite of Spring
2. Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra
3. Berg - Wozzeck
4. Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time
5. Stravinsky - The Firebird


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

1. Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe
2. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
3. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
4. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
5. Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

1. Stravinsky: Rite
2. Bartok
3. Shostakovich
4. Messiaen
5. Stravinsky: Petrushka


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

1. Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8
2. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
3. Stravinsky: Petrushka
4. Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe
5. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra

-3 The Rite of Spring!


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

1. Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring
2. Stravinsky - Petrushka
3. Ravel - Daphnis et Chloé
4. Messiaen - Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps
5. Berg - Violin Concerto

Great top 10


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

1. Berg: Wozzeck
2. Stravinsky: Rite of Spring
3. Berg: Violin Concerto
4. Shostakovich: String Quartet #8
5. Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

1. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
2. Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe
3. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
4. Berg: Violin Concerto
5. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

1. Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring
2. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
3. Messiaen: Quatuor pour la fin du temps
4. Stravinsky: The Firebird
5. Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

1. Rite of Spring
2.Berg VC
3. Bartok Concerto
4. Berg Wozzeck
5. Ravel D&C


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Messiaen
Stravinsky: Rite o' Spring
Bartok
Stravinsky: Firebird
Berg: Wozzeck


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

This is the first of several posts in which I will suggest examples from the "grey" area between film scores and the concert pieces derived from such.

I own this 1993 Ades CD of Florent Schmitt's music from _SALAMMBO_:










_SALAMMBO_ was released in 1925, and Florent Schmitt was commissioned to write an accompanying score (which, purportedly, was not very well synchronized with its visuals). Afterwards, Schmitt culled 3 suites from this score for orchestra and chorus, which became his Opus 76.






Based upon the initial criteria within this thread, I see no reason why this work shouldn't be acceptable as a candidate for this list.






Any thoughts about its eligibility?


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## Cygnenoir (Dec 21, 2011)

Yeah....and the winner is.........?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm thinking of redoing the round again after a conversation with Trout. Because "modern" has such a subjective and vague definition, we might have to alter the guidelines again.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, even though it would be fairer if the round was redone, participation may be compromised as a result and even so the top 10 nominations would look pretty similar to the ones in this round. If this thread has already lost its momentum and you want to reestablish the qualifications, then perhaps a new thread should be created?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Well why dont you post what the new 'guidelines' may look like, and we can discuss it?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Eligible composers come from the modern section of this list: http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best-classic-comp2.html.

However, the modern composers also have some Romantic pieces, so we remove them. "Them" will be determined by challenging works that seem Romantic to you, which will start a separate vote to see if it is modern or not, because we can't set a strict date guideline.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

The "modern" section lists a Top 50 (with composers ranked in some fashion), followed by honorable mentions, which sorts an additional 40 composers by first name.

Not quite 100, but even if this list were to exceed 100 names, there's still so many more composers whose output is modern enough to be eligible for consideration within this thread.

Consulting my own raw data on composers (on whom I've got at least 1 composition) in my album collection, I have upwards of 500-some names. There's duplication of data, of course, as most of the composers on that above referenced website already inhabit my listing. Bear in mind, though, that the 400+ composers that I'm posting below are far from being comprehensive, as these are simply ones I've got - not everybody in existence.

Ablinger, Peter
Ades, Thomas
Agobet, Jean-Louis
Agopov, Vladimir
Aho, Kalevi
Akses, Necil Kazim
Akutagawa, Yasushi
Alain, Jean
Alwyn, William
Ambrosini, Claudio
Amram, David
Amy, Gilbert
Ancelin, Pierre
Andriessen, Louis
Aracil, Alfredo
Arambarri, Jesus
Arnold, Malcolm
Arseneault, Raynald
Artyomov, Vyacheslav
Atli Heimer Sveinsson
Auric, Georges
Baaren, Kees van
Babbitt, Milton
Bacri, Nicolas
Badings, Henk
Bainbridge, Simon
Baird, Tadeusz
Ballif, Claude
Banks, Don
Barber, Samuel
Barraine, Elsa
Barraque, Jean
Bartok, Bela
Bashmakov, Leonid
Bax, Arnold
Bazelon, Irwin
Bedford, David
Benjamin, George
Bennett, Richard Rodney
Berg, Olav
Bergman, Erik
Berio, Luciano
Bernstein, Leonard
Bialas, Gunter
Birtwistle, Harrison
Bitsch, Marcel
Blacher, Boris
Blaha, Joseph
Blak, Kristian
Bliss, Arthur
Bloch, Ernest
Blomdahl, Karl-Birger
Boesmans, Phillippe
Bolcom, William
Bonnet, Antoine
Boucourechliev, Andre
Bozza, Eugene
Brandmuller, Theo
Brant, Henry
Brehm, Alvin
Brewaeys, Luc
Brian, Havergal
Britten, Benjamin
Broadstock, Brenton
Brouwer, Leo
Brown, Earle
Busby, Gerald
Busoni, Ferruccio
Bussotti, Sylvano
Cage, John
Calame, Genevieve
Campana, Jose Luis
Canat de Chizy, Edith
Caplet, Andre
Carter, Elliott
Cary, Tristram
Casterede, Jacques
Castiglioni, Niccolo
Cerha, Friedrich
Chagrin, Francis
Chailley, Jacques
Chamouard, Philippe
Chavez, Carlos
Chaynes, Charles
Chen Qigang
Chou Wen-Chung
Coates, Gloria
Colgrass, Michael
Constant, Franz
Constant, Marius
Conyngham, Barry
Copland, Aaron
Cowell, Henry
Cresswell, Lyell
Crumb, George
Dalbavie, Marc-Andre
Dallapiccola, Luigi
Damase, Jean-Michel
Daniel-Lesur, Jean Yves
Danielpour, Richard
Dao, Nguyen-Thien
David, Thomas Christian
Debussy, Claude
Delerue, Georges
Denhoff, Michael
Denisov, Edison
Desenclos, Alfred
Dillon, James
Domselaer, Jakob van
Donatoni, Franco
Drattell, Deborah
Druckman, Jacob
Dubois, Pierre Max
Dufourt, Hugues
Dumas, Henri
Dunser, Richard
Durieux, Frederic
Dusapin, Pascal
Dutilleux, Henri
Eliasson, Anders
Eller, Heino
Emmanuel, Maurice
Enescu, George
Englund, Einar
Eotvos, Peter
Escaich, Thierry
Estevez, Antonio
Farnon, Robert
Fedele, Ivan
Feldman, Morton
Fernandez Guerra, Jorge
Ferneyhough, Brian
Ferroud, Pierre-Octave
Fine, Irving
Finzi, Gerald
Florentz, Jean-Louis
Francaix, Jean
Francesconi, Luca
Frankel, Benjamin
Furrer, Beat
Gagneux, Renaud
Gaubert, Philippe
Gerhard, Roberto
Ghedini, Giorgio Federico
Ginastera, Alberto
Glass, Paul
Globokar, Vinko
Godard, Marcel
Goehr, Alexander
Goldsmith, Jerry
Gorecki, Henryk Mikolaj
Griffes, Charles Tomlinson
Grisey, Gerard
Groven, Eivind
Gruber, Heinz Karl
Gubaidulina, Sofia
Gunning, Christopher
Hadley, Patrick
Hakola, Kimmo
Halffter, Cristobal
Hameenniemi, Eero
Hamilton, Iain
Harbison, John
Harrison, Lou
Harsanyi, Tibor
Harvey, Richard
Hauer, Josef Matthias
Haug, Halvor
Hayashi, Hikaru
Heininen, Paavo
Heinio, Mikko
Helble, Raymond
Hennagin, Michael
Henze, Hans Werner
Herrmann, Bernard
Hersant, Philippe
Hindemith, Paul
Hoddinott, Alun
Hodkinson, Sydney
Holloway, Robin
Holmboe, Vagn
Holst, Gustav
Honegger, Arthur
Hosokawa, Toshio
Hossein, Andre
Huber, Klaus
Husa, Karel
Iannaccone, Anthony
Ibarrondo, Felix
Ibert, Jacques
Ikebe, Shin-Ichiro
Imbrie, Andrew
Inghelbrecht, Desire Emile
Ives, Charles
Jansen, Pierre
Johansson, Bengt
Jokinen, Erkki
Jolas, Betsy
Jolivet, Andre
Jon Leifs
Jon Nordal
Jongen, Joseph
Josephs, Wilfred
Kaipainen, Jouni
Kalomiris, Manolis
Kalsons, Romualds
Kamen, Michael
Karkoff, Maurice
Keller, Alfred
Kelterborn, Rudolf
Kernis, Aaron Jay
Keulen, Geert van
Keuris, Tristan
Klami, Uuno
Kleven, Arvid
Knussen, Oliver
Koch, Erland von
Koechlin, Charles
Kokkonen, Joonas
Koppel, Herman D.
Kortekangas, Olli
Koskelin, Olli
Koskinen, Jukka
Kraft, William
Krenek, Ernst
Krohn, Felix
Kupferman, Meyer
Kurtag, Gyorgy
Kyburz, Hanspeter
Kyllonen, Timo-Juhani
Labey, Marcel
Lachenmann, Helmut
Laderman, Ezra
Landowski, Marcel
Langlais, Jean
Lansio, Tapani
Lazarof, Henri
Leduc, Jacques
Leeuw, Ton de
Legrand, Michel
Lemeland, Aubert
Levinas, Michael
Lewin, Frank
Ligeti, Gyorgy
Lindberg, Magnus
Linkola, Jukka
Llanas, Albert
Loevendie, Theo
Lohrmann, Uwe
Lopatnikoff, Nikolai
Lutoslawski, Witold
Lutyens, Elisabeth
MacMillan, James
Maderna, Bruno
Makino, Kantori
Malec, Ivo
Malipiero, Gian Francesco
Manoury, Philippe
Marcland, Patrick
Marco, Tomas
Martin, Frank
Martino, Donald
Martinu, Bohuslav
Marttinen, Tauno
Maslanka, David
Mathias, William
Matthews, Colin
Maurice, Paule
Maw, Nicholas
Maxwell Davies, Peter
Mayuzumi, Toshiro
McCabe, John
Melartin, Erkki
Menotti, Gian Carlo
Merikanto, Aarre
Merilainen, Usko
Messiaen, Olivier
Miaskovsky, Nikolai
Mihalovici, Marcel
Milhaud, Darius
Monrad Johansen, David
Moreno-Torroba, Federico
Morricone, Ennio
Mostel, Raphael
Muldowney, Dominic
Murail, Tristan
Musgrave, Thea
Mustonen, Olli
Neuwirth, Olga
Nielsen, Carl
Nigg, Serge
Nobre, Marlos
Nono, Luigi
Nordgren, Pehr Henrik
Nordheim, Arne
Norgard, Per
Norholm, Ib
North, Alex
Nummi, Seppo
Nunes, Emmanuel
Nystroem, Gosta
Obst, Michael
Ohana, Maurice
Otaka, Atsutada
Ott, David
Pablo, Luis de
Panufnik, Andrzej
Part, Arvo
Patterson, Paul
Paulus, Stephen
Payne, Anthony
Penderecki, Krzysztof
Perle, George
Persichetti, Vincent
Pesson, Gerard
Petitgirard, Laurent
Petrassi, Goffredo
Pettersson, Allan
Philippot, Michel
Pingoud, Ernest
Pinkham, Daniel
Pintscher, Matthias
Pizzetti, Ilbrando
Porter, Quincy
Poulenc, Francis
Pousseur, Henri
Powell, Mel
Previn, Andre
Prin, Yves
Probst, Dominique
Prodromides, Jean
Prokofiev, Sergei
Radulescu, Horatiu
Raid, Kaljo
Raitio, Vaino
Rands, Bernard
Rasmussen, Karl Aage
Rautavaara, Einojuhani
Ravel, Maurice
Rawsthorne, Alan
Revueltas, Silvestre
Rey, Cemal Resid
Riegger, Wallingford
Riehm, Rolf
Rihm, Wolfgang
Ringger, Rolf Urs
Rivier, Jean
Roger-Ducasse, Jean
Rorem, Ned
Rosenberg, Hilding
Roslavets, Nikolai
Rossum, Frederic van
Rouse, Christopher
Roussel, Albert
Rozsa, Miklos
Ruders, Poul
Ruggles, Carl
Saariaho, Kaija
Saguer, Louis
Sainton, Philip
Sallinen, Aulis
Salmenhaara, Erkki
Salonen, Esa-Pekka
Salonen, Sulo
Satie, Erik
Sauguet, Henri
Saxton, Robert
Saygun, Ahmed Adnan
Scelsi, Giacinto
Schat, Peter
Schierbeck, Poul
Schifrin, Lalo
Schmitt, Florent
Schnebel, Dieter
Schoenberg, Arnold
Schulhoff, Ervin
Schuller, Gunther
Schuman, William
Schurmann, Gerard
Sciarrino, Salvatore
Scott, Cyril
Sculthorpe, Peter
Searle, Humphrey
Segerstam, Leif
Sermila, Jarmo
Sessions, Roger
Shaw, Francis
Silvestrov, Valentin
Simpson, Robert
Sisask, Urmas
Skalkottas, Nikos
Skrowaczewski, Stanislaw
Solbiati, Alessandro
Sonninen, Ahti
Sorensen, Bent
Stenius, Torsten
Stockhausen, Karlheinz
Stravinsky, Igor
Suk, Josef
Syberg, Franz
Szymanowski, Karol
Tabachnik, Michel
Tabakov, Emil
Tada, Eiichi
Takemitsu, Toru
Tal, Josef
Tan Dun
Tanguy, Eric
Tansman, Alexandre
Tavener, John
Tcherepnin, Alexander
Terzakis, Dimitri
Theodorakis, Mikis
Thomas, Augusta Read
Thommessen, Olav Anton
Thoresen, Lasse
Thorkell Sigurbjornsson
Thorne, Francis
Tiensuu, Jukka
Tiessen, Heinz
Tihanyi, Laszlo
Tippett, Michael
Toch, Ernst
Tomasi, Henri
Ton That, Tiet
Tournemire, Charles
Tower, Joan
Tremblay, Gilles
Tubin, Eduard
Turina, Jose Luis
Turnage, Mark-Anthony
Tuukkanen, Kalervo
Tuur, Erkki-Sven
Tveitt, Geirr
Ullmann, Viktor
Uyttebrouck, Paul
Valen, Fartein
Varese, Edgard
Vasks, Peteris
Vaughan Williams, Ralph
Vella, Joseph
Veress, Sandor
Vermeulen, Matthijs
Vierne, Louis
Viitanen, Harri
Villa-Lobos, Heitor
Vine, Carl
Vivier, Claude
Vogel, Wladimir
Vries, Klaas de
Vuataz, Roger
Vuori, Harri
Wagemans, Peter-Jan
Wagenaar, Diderik
Waldrop, Gideon
Walton, William
Warren, Elinor Remick
Waxman, Franz
Webern, Anton
Wehrli, Werner
Weill, Kurt
Weisgall, Hugo
Welcher, Dan
Wellesz, Egon
Werle, Lars Johan
Werner, Jean-Jacques
Wessman, Harri
Wiener, Jean
Wilkins, Blake
Williamson, Malcolm
Wilson, Richard
Wilson, Thomas
Wiren, Dag
Wissmer, Pierre
Wolfe, Julia
Wolff, Christian
Wolpe, Stefan
Wordsworth, William
Wuorinen, Charles
Xenakis, Iannis
Yoshimatsu, Takashi
Yun, Isang
Zbinden, Julien-Francois
Zeisl, Eric
Zender, Hans
Zimmermann, Bernd Alois
Zimmermann, Udo
Zinsstag, Gerard
Zograbian, Ashot
Zwilich, Ellen Taaffe


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

How far in will we get when we start hitting not-so-famous borderline composers? Should be stop at 100 then?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm not sure I understood what was wrong with the earlier rules. They might not be perfect, but they were reasonably well defined. Do we really want to change and start over? I thought we got off to a pretty good start.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

bump for more opinions?


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