# Do I just not get concertos?



## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

I apologize if a similar thread like this exists elsewhere, but I couldn't find anymore after searching.

In any case, as a lover of classical music I'm a big lover of symphonies, choral masses/requiems, concert pieces, and I'm even getting into opera more and more, but when it comes to concertos (piano, violin, cello, or even my beloved organ, etc.) I can't help but feel like I am missing something. I've listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others, yet I just can't get enthused by them like I can a symphony.

Is it me? Am I just listening to concertos wrong or is it actually an issue of preference?


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

PathfinderCS said:


> I apologize if a similar thread like this exists elsewhere, but I couldn't find anymore after searching.
> 
> In any case, as a lover of classical music I'm a big lover of symphonies, choral masses/requiems, concert pieces, and I'm even getting into opera more and more, but when it comes to concertos (piano, violin, cello, or even my beloved organ, etc.) I can't help but feel like I am missing something. I've listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others, yet I just can't get enthused by them like I can a symphony.
> 
> Is it me? Am I just listening to concertos wrong or is it actually an issue of preference?


It helps if you already like the sounds of piano music or violin music or cello etc..

But before you get disheartened, familiarize yourself with the Mozart piano concertos, 9 thru 27. See which ones are your favorites, but it does take listening time. You'll hear cliches (mostly for structure), but so much more.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

PathfinderCS said:


> I apologize if a similar thread like this exists elsewhere, but I couldn't find anymore after searching.
> 
> In any case, as a lover of classical music I'm a big lover of symphonies, choral masses/requiems, concert pieces, and I'm even getting into opera more and more, but when it comes to concertos (piano, violin, cello, or even my beloved organ, etc.) I can't help but feel like I am missing something. I've listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others, yet I just can't get enthused by them like I can a symphony.
> 
> Is it me? Am I just listening to concertos wrong or is it actually an issue of preference?


I'm not sure _how_ someone can help you if there's already a block in your mind keeping you from being drawn into these types of works. Personally, I think the problem is something that is personal and no matter what recommendations one gives you, you're still going to end up at that same dead-end road.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I recommend Martinů orchestral works in that case. He often used piano as just another orchestral instrument, not as a concerto showcase instrument. It's unusual still, and I enjoy the effect a lot. 

I still have a little trouble with shritchy scratchy violin concertos, but it was Beethoven who got me into the piano concerto, especially No. 5 "Emperor:" The contrast between the soft piano and then full on explosive orchestra can be exciting. Contrast is important to me, but I think in the end, if the themes are interesting I don't care if a single instrument is being showcased.


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## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

PathfinderCS said:


> I apologize if a similar thread like this exists elsewhere, but I couldn't find anymore after searching.
> 
> In any case, as a lover of classical music I'm a big lover of symphonies, choral masses/requiems, concert pieces, and I'm even getting into opera more and more, but when it comes to concertos (piano, violin, cello, or even my beloved organ, etc.) I can't help but feel like I am missing something. I've listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others, yet I just can't get enthused by them like I can a symphony.
> 
> Is it me? Am I just listening to concertos wrong or is it actually an issue of preference?


What is it about them that you think you're struggling with? Do you find that there's too much focus on instrumental display?

The recommendation to try Mozart's piano concertos is a good one. Especially if you enjoy his operas, you will probably hear a lot of the same sorts of things that draw your ear. Concertos 20, 23, and 27 are my personal favorites. You might also try something like Brahms' second piano concerto, which I've heard described as "a symphony with piano obbligato." So if you already enjoy the Brahms symphonies, that could be an entry point for you.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Alright, I'll make a few suggestions: Bernstein's _Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety"_ and Szymanowski's _Symphony No. 4, "Symphonie concertante"_. Both of these works are gloried piano concertos but have a strong symphonic undercurrent. The suggestion of Martinů is good one as well and two works of his that come immediately to mind that I think you'd enjoy are _Tre Ricercari_ and _Toccata e due canzoni_. Both of these works incorporate the piano to great rhythmic effect. These two works aren't concertos nor are they concertante works, but both contain piano obbligato parts.


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## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

Neo Romanza said:


> Alright, I'll make a few suggestions: Bernstein's _Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety"_ and Szymanowski's _Symphony No. 4, "Symphonie concertante"_. Both of these works are gloried piano concertos but have a strong symphonic undercurrent. The suggestion of Martinů is good one as well and two works of his that come immediately to mind that I think you'd enjoy are _Tre Ricercari_ and _Toccata e due canzoni_. Both of these works incorporate the piano to great rhythmic effect. These two works aren't concertos nor are they concertante works, but both contain piano obbligato parts.


Heartily second the Szymanowski.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

John Zito said:


> The recommendation to try Mozart's piano concertos is a good one. Especially if you enjoy his operas, you will probably hear a lot of the same sorts of things that draw your ear. Concertos 20, 23, and 27 are my personal favorites.


Yeah, but wouldn't the _sinfonia_ concertante be a good place for the OP to start? I hope he eventually _finds_ the _path_.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

The OP's love for organ brings to my mind a compelling 'Church Sonata' by Henri Sauguet (which is in essence an organ concerto). This work, however, doesn't appear to be available in YouTube ... so another suggestion is Ernest Bloch's 'Schelomo' for cello & orchestra.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

I would also recommend Mozart´s Piano Concertos. There the piano just sounds so good and blends perfectly with the orchestra. In some later romantic concertos there is maybe too much "heroism" and "spectacle" to the constellation for me to enjoy them all that often. Also the concerto by Schumann has many great Mozartian qualities. Neither the Violin Concertos by Beethoven and Brahms do I perceive as show off pieces. Then again, Violin Concerto by Sibelius is a show-off piece but damn it is exciting!

Concerto is not my favourite genre either but not everything has to be. For me, concerto is not a problem, but a lovely and necessary contrast to other genres.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm kind of sympathetic to the thesis here: concertos as a whole are not exactly my favorite genre, either. I despise the virtuoso showpieces from Wieniawski, Paganini and that ilk. I never, ever listen to the concertos for any instrument of Mozart. The only concertos I really like are the big ones of Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Korngold, Khachaturian, Prokofieff maybe. But things like Concerto for Contrabassoon, Concerto for Percussion, Concerto for Horn and Hardart? Not in my playlist. So many concertos are just novelty items without too much musical substance.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> I'm kind of sympathetic to the thesis here: concertos as a whole are not exactly my favorite genre, either. I despise the virtuoso showpieces from Wieniawski, Paganini and that ilk. I never, ever listen to the concertos for any instrument of Mozart. The only concertos I really like are the big ones of Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Korngold, Khachaturian, Prokofieff maybe. But things like Concerto for Contrabassoon, Concerto for Percussion, Concerto for Horn and Hardart? Not in my playlist. So many concertos are just novelty items without too much musical substance.


A truly great concerto takes the listener on a journey where there's a dialogue not only between the composer, the soloist and orchestra, but also the listener and composer. There are far too many concerti to list here that I love unequivocally. Hopefully, the OP replies to this thread again. There are some fine suggestions here.


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## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

I appreciate the suggestions as I really WANT to grasp the concerto and truly appreciate. For some reason, and I cannot understand why, is that it always feels like there is a disconnect between the orchestra and soloist. It really feels like the virtuoso is just taking the orchestra along for the ride. Maybe it's like Waehnan stated in that Romantic composers probably made their solo part a tad too...spectacular? I don't know, but I need a place to start and maybe starting with Mozart is a good idea.

It takes time; of course. It did with opera and I'm still growing with that. But yeah; I'll be giving the suggestions a good listen and will report back here. Thanks all!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

PathfinderCS said:


> I appreciate the suggestions as I really WANT to grasp the concerto and truly appreciate. For some reason, and I cannot understand why, is that it always feels like there is a disconnect between the orchestra and soloist. It really feels like the virtuoso is just taking the orchestra along for the ride. Maybe it's like Waehnan stated in that Romantic composers probably made their solo part a tad too...spectacular? I don't know, but I need a place to start and maybe starting with Mozart is a good idea.
> 
> It takes time; of course. It did with opera and I'm still growing with that. But yeah; I'll be giving the suggestions a good listen and will report back here. Thanks all!


In the best concerti, there is a narrative that happens within the music and, if the narrative is interesting enough, it'll sweep the listener along. Some of most exquisite music I know is found within concerti.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

PathfinderCS said:


> ... it always feels like there is a disconnect between the orchestra and soloist. It really feels like the virtuoso is just taking the orchestra along for the ride. ...


Sometimes you have to edge in sideways. So, I recommend you take on Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, and then the Lutosławski Concerto for Orchestra. Here you will find less "disconnect between the orchestra and soloist" since the soloist _is_ the orchestra. And it is you, the listener, who goes along for the ride with the orchestra.
Following your excursion into these two Concertos (for Orchestra), you might want to take on others of this form. There are many nowadays.

If you happen to like Spanish oriented music, I suggest you try Manuel De Falla's _Nights in the Gardens of Spain_. The composer doesn't title this a concerto, but it sort of fits the bill and provides a canny way to get closer to the pure concerto form. As may Gershwin's _Rhapsody in Blue_.

For the _pure_ concerto, I would start a symphony-loving newbie on two of the Rachmaninoff piano concertos: first the Third, and then the Second -- or maybe vice versa. These have a "symphonic" sound to them, and nobody playing an instrument goes along for the ride. It's drive seat all the way for all involved. After that I recommend a listen to two violin concertos: one by Samuel Barber, and the other by Erich Korngold. Then there's a Cello Concerto by a fellow named Finzi, who also wrote a Clarinet Concerto. Two more cello concertos are worth a listen: one is by Elgar, and another by a fellow named Dvorak. Follow up with the Double Concerto by Brahms and the Triple Concerto by Beethoven. And to cool down a bit (by entering a more intimate arena) take a listen to the Guitar Concerto -- the _Concierto De Aranjuez_ -- by Joaquín Rodrigo, and then to Ravel's Piano Concerto for the Left Hand Alone, and then to Handel's Harp Concerto. Greatness is not always bombastic. Which should edge you into the J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concertos -- all six of them. Again, all "drive seat" fare. And after that, slip back into the concerto mode with a listen to Alban Berg's Violin Concerto, which, hopefully, will lead you to the Sibelius Violin Concerto....

Well, this could go on all day ... and continue for a lifetime. It has with me. 

The concerto is a fascinating form with so much variety and some of the greatest, most original, most satisfying music ever composed. To ignore it is ... criminal. Well, _almost_ criminal, at least.

Did I mention Villa-Lobos's Harmonica Concerto? Vaughan Williams's Tuba Concerto? Hummel's Trumpet Concerto?


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I never had a problem with concerti when getting into classical music but >30 years later I can understand some of the concerns. There is a difficulty in virtuoso display drowning out other aspects or more generally balancing things out convincingly. Although I think Beethoven's concerti are about as good as it gets (in general and in achieving that balance), you could try either even more symphonic concerti, which is mostly Brahms in the standard repertoire (+ Reger, maybe Elgar, the Szymanowski mentioned that is actually called a symphony). 
Or try "lighter" pieces that are closer to chamber music (not "shallow" but with smaller ensembles, often shorter and often the solo(s) more integrated). This would include many baroque concerti (Vivaldi, Bach, Handel etc.), some Mozart (although I personally think Mozart concerti are as "concerto-like" as it gets and not likely to appeal to someone not fond of the genre) or 20th century pieces like Stravinsky (violin, piano), Hindemith Kammermusiken (mixed concerti a bit like baroque ones in scale)


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## cybernaut (Feb 6, 2021)

I don't get mushrooms.

So I eat other things.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Mozart's concertos (especially the piano concertos and clarinet concerto) were among my first loves in classical music. In fact, I loved them so much that I always found myself slightly disappointed when I ventured outside them to other concertos. This is not to say there aren't other concertos that I love--Schumann's Piano Concerto and Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto come immediately to mind as favorites--but I do think Mozart had an almost singular talent for the genre, perhaps one that developed from his operas in understanding the relationship and balance between a solo instrument and an orchestra. Mozart's concertos are almost like instrumental operas in themselves, with the instruments entering into dramatic dialogues with the orchestra, either in opposition or in unity, and with tremendous variety in how those aspects play out. I think some of that balance was lost with the advent of the romantic era's longing after grander emotional statements.

Beyond Mozart, I'd just recommend sticking with it at least until you can pin down precisely what it is you find lacking in the genre and whether or not that's something inherent in the genre or whether you just don't care for the specific works you've heard. One other thing I'd say is that concertos are innately more of a "player-focused" genre than symphonies or chamber music are. They're very much designed around talented soloists to express themselves through their instruments that are separated from the more "holistic" aspect of the orchestra. I think if you have or develop an appreciation for musicianship then concertos will perhaps be more appealing. That virtuosic aspect is one thing I've always admired about jazz and other genres that place emphasis on musicians as much as composers (obviously, in jazz the soloists are, in one respect, composers in their own right; while in classical the soloists are almost always just playing what the composers wrote).


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Aim for the big music rather than the many concertos that are show pieces. I second suggestions of Mozart (the mature piano concertos and the clarinet concerto) and Brahms (2nd piano concerto particularly but the violin concerto goes way beyond just being a heroic display for the violin). But also: the first violin concerto of Shostakovich is powerful and hard to resist: it is almost "symphonic" (perhaps more than many of his actual symphonies as he repressed it for a long time and had been freer with his musical language that he was with his more public symphonies) as well as being a true concerto. Then there is the Britten violin concerto which has seemed related to the Shostakovich to me. And the Berg is a wonderful work (again not at all about display). And, really, what about Bach's many concertos?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

An obvious bet would be to check out 

some very 'symphonic' concertos, as already suggested (including also Brahms and Busoni piano concertos, Elgar Violin Concerto, etc.),
or concertos featuring several soloists, like Beethoven's, Juon's or D'Indy's Triple Concertos, Haydn's and Mozart's Sinfonia Concertantes, or Messiaen's Concert a Quatre, to mention a few ...


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

John Zito said:


> What is it about them that you think you're struggling with? Do you find that there's too much focus on instrumental display?
> 
> The recommendation to try Mozart's piano concertos is a good one. Especially if you enjoy his operas, you will probably hear a lot of the same sorts of things that draw your ear. Concertos 20, 23, and 27 are my personal favorites. You might also try something like Brahms' second piano concerto, which I've heard described as "a symphony with piano obbligato." So if you already enjoy the Brahms symphonies, that could be an entry point for you.


Just what I was going to suggest.

Charles Rosen described Mozart's concertos as having a dramatic form - pitting the single voice against massed voices. Mozart's ability to maintain the balance is remarkable.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I find Mozart's concerti exemplary for the genre but because of this very fact I doubt that someone who has until now not been too fond of concerti would change his mind. It's a bit like recommending Agatha Christie to someone who has not liked classic murder mysteries


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> I find Mozart's concerti exemplary for the genre but because of this very fact I doubt that someone who has until now not been too fond of concerti would change his mind. It's a bit like recommending Agatha Christie to someone who has not liked classic murder mysteries


I beg to disagree. Mozart’s Concertos are exceptional in how good and brilliant and balanced they SOUND.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

You don't seem to get the point. I don't dispute this at all. But they clearly sound like concerti, don't you think? 
Do you expect someone who "listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others" and wasn't too fond of them would suddenly like Mozart's?
(I'd also be surprised if pathfinder CS has not already heard a bunch of Mozart concerti.)


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> You don't seem to get the point. I don't dispute this at all. But they clearly sound like concerti, don't you think?
> Do you expect someone who "listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others" and wasn't too fond of them would suddenly like Mozart's?
> (I'd also be surprised if pathfinder CS has not already heard a bunch of Mozart concerti.)


I think I get your point. But I happen to think that the Mozart Concertos are more balanced and brilliant sounding than the other concertos you listed. They are actually almost the only concertos I listen to as ”gorgeous music”. Other concertos I listen to as ”concertos”.


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## gfav611 (8 mo ago)

cybernaut said:


> I don't get mushrooms.
> 
> So I eat other things.


This is the way.
It obviously doesn't hurt to keep trying concertos out once in a while to see if something clicks, but don't be concerned about not liking them. I have the same issue with opera. I've played in the orchestra in a couple of operas and lots of musicals and vocal concerts, studied opera in history/theory class, subscribed for a year to Opera News, and regularly made time to listen to operas or watch DVDs each month for quite a while. I've come to the conclusion I just don't like opera. It does not ignite any interest.

When I was young, concertos were a big deal, and knowing the ones for my instrument and the big ones for instruments of colleagues was important. I enjoyed them at the time. I liked listening to different versions and discussing interpretations and recordings. As I've gotten older I have no desire to revisit them or listen to new ones. I don't know why, other than I just prefer the sound of full ensembles or chamber groups, and would rather spend my limited listening time exploring that.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Agree with all the above. If a certain type of music doesn't click for you, leave it to others to enjoy and spend your time and effort on the music you do like. I've tried numerous times in the past to persuade myself that I could like Mahler's music but never managed to do so, so I leave it to his (many) fans and wish them much joy of it. Whatever/whomever you don't enjoy, there will be more than enough elsewhere in the world of music to keep you occupied for a lifetime.


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## prlj (10 mo ago)

I've always felt the same way, and like others, have opted to not typically choose to listen to very many. I am digging the new perspective on Mozart's PC's, here, though. So I might give one or two of them a shot. 

I admire your willingness to give it them a chance, regardless!


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## Hogwash (5 mo ago)

Perhaps if you focus on the interplay between the soloist and the orchestra you might find concertos more enjoyable? Not everything is for everyone so it's possible you'll never enjoy concertos but don't give up on them!

I recommend the Mozart piano concertos featuring Szell and Casadesus.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Kreisler jr said:


> You don't seem to get the point. I don't dispute this at all. But they clearly sound like concerti, don't you think?
> Do you expect someone who "listened to various piano concerti pieces by Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Saint-Saens, Chopin, and plenty of others" and wasn't too fond of them would suddenly like Mozart's?
> (I'd also be surprised if pathfinder CS has not already heard a bunch of Mozart concerti.)


I did. It took me a long time before I came to enjoy Tchaikovsky and Chopin's concertos. I still don't find Saint-Saens that interesting. I liked Beethoven from the start, but I listen much more frequently to Mozart's concertos.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

I get it. I dont really listen to concertos either. I listen more to sonatas.

Its probably because being a guitarist, I don't play any concertos. There are concertos written for guitar, but fat chance I'm going to find an orchestra to play one with me, so I never bothered.

But you aren't abnormal or deprived or anything because you dont listen to them. Some forms just dont speak to me either, and I dont really listen to concertos either.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Haydn's Symphonies 6-8 subtitled Morning, Noon and Night are called symphonies but are more likely examples of concerto grosso or what later became known as concertos for orchestra. The pieces by Haydn are more accessible than Bartok of later versions in my opinion. 

If you like them and still disdain concertos it is probably the formality of concertos you dislike -- the orchestral introduction followed by opening solo statement followed by the interplay between the soloist and orchestra. It sounds like you want the orchestra to be dominant, not subordinate.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

To be a big lover of orchestral music but not like concertos is inexplicable to me. i can only assume this will suddenly and randomly shift for you.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

Weston said:


> but it was Beethoven who got me into the piano concerto, especially No. 5 "Emperor:" The contrast between the soft piano and then full on explosive orchestra can be exciting. Contrast is important to me, but I think in the end, if the themes are interesting I don't care if a single instrument is being showcased.


One 100% agree with you, try listening to the performance of the soloist Rubinstein under the baton of Krips. The whole thing is available in youtube. 


I have to say "concerto" as a genre is not my favorite, there are a lot of decent opuses, but it's very rare for me to find a piece that truly conquers my heart. 

I highly recommend you to consider listening to the baroque concertos, especially Bach's 6 Brandenburg's. and also his harpsichords concertos. they are contained and straight to the point. In Bach's concertos the soloist truly shines without being departed from the whole orchestra. Also try Tchaikovsky's Concert Fantasia, the piece is super entertaining!


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

Kreisler jr said:


> I find Mozart's concerti exemplary for the genre but because of this very fact I doubt that someone who has until now not been too fond of concerti would change his mind. It's a bit like recommending Agatha Christie to someone who has not liked classic murder mysteries


EXACTLY!


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## prlj (10 mo ago)

juliante said:


> To be a big lover of orchestral music but not like concertos is inexplicable to me. i can only assume this will suddenly and randomly shift for you.


I can be big lover of wine, but opt for red over white all the time.

I can be a big lover of sports, but avoid golf, soccer, and tennis.

I can be a big lover of cars, but only drive Hondas and Subarus...and never a US domestic. 

I think it's okay to not like a thing, even if you like other, similar things.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

If you're a lover of symphonies (as I am) I think the way to get into concerti is to find the biggest, most symphonic ones possible as a gateway. So Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius, and the like, recorded in a "big band" style to maximize the symphonic impact.


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## PathfinderCS (11 mo ago)

In regards to baroque pieces, I will admit I do enjoy those quite a bit. The Brandenburg Concertos are especially enjoyable. That said, I know baroque music isn't always comparable to that of the classical/romantic period so ymmv.

While I was at work I gave a few concertos some listening; mainly the Mozart piano concertos 20 & 27, as well as Rachmaninoff #3. I have a propensity for the keyboard instruments (piano, organ, harmonium, etc) so piano concertos are ones I tend to start with. The Mozart pieces (which I will admit I never even thought about) were actually quite delightful. I'll need some more time with them, but I actually think that was a good start.

As for Rachmaninoff, I'll also admit to never realizing he had a third piano concerto, but after listening to it, I I could actually appreciate what felt like an actual partnership between soloist and orchestra. Like I mentioned before I want to give it some listens (and locate preferred recordings). In the meantime I want to give a listen to a few more, and I failed to mention that there are some concertos that I have actually enjoyed.

Charles-Marie Widor wrote two piano concertos, as well as a Fantasy for piano and orchestra. I really enjoyed the first concerto and the fantasy piece was likewise marvelous, so I actually do have a starting point. Outside of that I want to give concertos centered on string, brass, and woodwind instruments a try.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions, advice, and recommendations. Garnering new perspectives is really my intention here as I want to appreciate as much music as I can.


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## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

PathfinderCS said:


> I appreciate the suggestions as I really WANT to grasp the concerto and truly appreciate. For some reason, and I cannot understand why, is that it always feels like there is a disconnect between the orchestra and soloist. It really feels like the virtuoso is just taking the orchestra along for the ride. Maybe it's like Waehnan stated in that Romantic composers probably made their solo part a tad too...spectacular? I don't know, but I need a place to start and maybe starting with Mozart is a good idea.
> 
> It takes time; of course. It did with opera and I'm still growing with that. But yeah; I'll be giving the suggestions a good listen and will report back here. Thanks all!


There shouldn't be too much disconnect, but the soloist is the star, the orchestra is just there to supplement and echo the soloist (at least that's how I see it). I tend to like concertos more than symphonies, but then I also prefer solo instrumental music... symphonies to me are somehow too diffuse, I think I like having a single voice that I can focus on, it feels more intimate and personal.

I always post this one, but I really do think it's the ideal concerto:


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## methuselah (10 mo ago)

Of the many I've tried, I'd only return to Shostakovich or Stravinsky, for now, and even then, I still do not understand the concerto form. I've only really enjoyed symphonies and string quartets when it comes to "classical" (1800s-1960) music (not stuff by John Cage, Charlemagne Palestine, Gavin Bryars, Briano Eno, Michael Nyman, Steve Reich, Cacciapaglia, etc).


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

PathfinderCS said:


> In regards to baroque pieces, I will admit I do enjoy those quite a bit. The Brandenburg Concertos are especially enjoyable. That said, I know baroque music isn't always comparable to that of the classical/romantic period so ymmv.


The concerto has a fascinating history. If you like Baroque music that's a great starting point with a wealth of repertoire. The concerto emphasized the interaction of different groups of musicians, which in the early Baroque could be vocal as well as instrumental. Bach's cantatas often were originally called "concertos." The wonderful Brandenburg Concertos offer a variety of groupings of instruments, and the tone colors and textures he achieved is amazing. By Bach's time the solo concerto had been developed also, and he wrote some excellent ones with violin or keyboard solo.

I think the concerto has more impact in live performance, where you sense the musical rhetoric of the individual vs. group, etc. The soloist takes on a heroic dimension by the romantic era, and experiencing that live or on DVD enhances the affect. If you know or like a particular instrument being in the soloist role, that will vastly increase your appreciation of the whole work in my opinion.


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## johnlewisgrant (Mar 11, 2013)

If you are bothered by the concept of “pitting” solo against tutti, then there’s always Bach, Brandenburgs to start with, then all the incomparable keyboard and violin concerti. The “soloist” in these instances is more of a participant then a prize fighter, for want of a better analogy. Mind you, I’ve always thought Beethoven’s G major piano concerto to be a nice compromise; a friendly collaboration, at least some of the time.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I don't understand. I feel a difference between few instruments and many instruments. The more the merrier. But what is the problem with an occassional solo (if other instruments come soon) ? Do you like flute or violin concertos ? Is piano only a problem ? Piano cannot be tuned to well as the rest of the orchestra, at least this article says so. But I am partially tone deaf, so I wouldn't know.
"It’s something you can actually hear when a piano joins an orchestra; the orchestra can play more “purely” in tune, while the piano needs to stick with its equal temperament. Try it: listen to any piano concerto that starts with just the orchestra; when the piano joins in, there’s a bit of a dulling effect; your ears will adjust, but it’s always a cool moment for tuning nerds." Nerding out: why you should definitely care what key your aria is in


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