# Which works would you choose for the next Disney's "Fantasia" movie?



## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

What pieces do you think could make for good animated musical stories that could enthrall kids (and not so kids) in the next Fantasia movie?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Great question!

It could help to know what was in the first two. Here are the links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasia_%28film%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasia_2000

Some of mine are a bit long winded and may need excerpted. In no particular order:

Kilar: Exodus
Ligeti: Clocks and Clouds
Prokofiev: The Evil God and Dance of the Pagan Monsters

[Edit. A few more.]
Mendelssohn: Hebrides Overture
Mozart: Symphony 39, movement 3. Menuetto and trio
Rameau: Les Indes galantes. Les Sauvages, but then it would be hard to top this routine.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

For more recent works, maybe Adams' Short Ride on a Fast Machine


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

You can bet your bottom dollar that the film will be a piece of trash unless they hire a real director. Chances are they won't (they seldom do) and it'll simply be an obscenely expensive turd. No composer worth his salt would want to be associated with that thing.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

In my case, extra-musical associations significantly lessen the intensity of my first listen to a piece. Perhaps a Disney animated complete opera (not just excerpts) would be a good enough classical music promoter (not necesarily for little kids but still could be). (I think I don't even have to mention that this suggestion is because a lot of ignorant people, perhaps deceived by certain cartoons, think opera is only fat women badly singing overly dramatic or boring stuff. While in reality many operas are very enjoyable in their entirety both in terms of the music and the plot itself)


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## cournot (Jan 19, 2014)

My suggestions are not based on just what I want but music I think Disney might plausibly approve.

In that case, I think maybe:

Flying Dutchman Overture
Gounod Funeral March of a Marionette
Stravinsky Petrouchka
Dvorak 9th
Copland Appalachian Spring
Mozart Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Brahms Academic Festival Overture

Of course the long pieces will need to be excerpted.


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## ethanjamesescano (Aug 29, 2012)

Joaquin Rodrigo's Concerto de Aranjuez


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## Mister Man (Feb 3, 2014)

I thought Fantasia 2000 was appalling.

Mozart - Requiem Mass
Strauss II - Die Fledermaus Overture
Franz Lizst - Les préludes
Shostakovitch - Piano Concerto No.2, movement 2.
Gustav Holst - The Planets
End with Beethoven symphony No.9, movement 4.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Absolutely must include something by Bartok, e.g. the slow movement from the Concerto for orchestra (which always reminds me of an underwater scene, with sharks gliding about) or Music for strings, percussion and celesta (which could perhaps be illustrated by a kid riding around on his tricycle in the deserted hallways of a haunted hotel... )

And how about one of the orchestral nocturnes by Debussy, or Afternoon of a faun?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mister Man said:


> I thought Fantasia 2000 was appalling.


I didn't think it was appalling, but it was hardly a scratch on the first one...


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Maybe do a chamber music Fantasia? Transfigured Night? :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

How about a cartoon on the Funeral March from the Eroica? It would require a lot of imagination of course. Opening with the funeral cortege, caissons and all, winding through dreary streets in the rain...


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> How about a cartoon on the Funeral March from the Eroica? It would require a lot of imagination of course. Opening with the funeral cortege, caissons and all, winding through dreary streets in the rain...


Nice. I was thinking of the equivalent for Mahler's First. All the Disney animals burying Uncle Walt...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> In my case, extra-musical associations significantly lessen the intensity of my first listen to a piece. Perhaps a Disney animated complete opera (not just excerpts) would be a good enough classical music promoter (not necesarily for little kids but still could be). (I think I don't even have to mention that this suggestion is because a lot of ignorant people, perhaps deceived by certain cartoons, think opera is only fat women badly singing overly dramatic or boring stuff. While in reality many operas are very enjoyable in their entirety both in terms of the music and the plot itself)


BINGO!

I feel quite the same about 'story' where there is none in music, but thought _a full-length production_ of an opera -- or my first thought was my favorite ballet, Stravinsky's _Petrushka_ -- could be an opportunity to get away from the more usual presentations ala 'filmed staging' and instead make the opera or ballet directly for the film medium. That could be very exciting and satisfying. That said, the commercial viability is probably a certain _null and void._

Another approach is a complete abstraction, i.e. non-representative shapes in a non-literal "choreography," which if an entire film was done this way might be a more than unfortunate parallel to a hippie-style hallucinogenic slide show ca. the mid 1960's, a rock-pop band in the Fillmore auditorium, LOL. -- a likely bust and straight to DVD.

Most of the public would want 'stories' or some suggested 'meaning' along with the music, and like you, I'm agin it because I think it limits the listener's imagination as to what they are hearing.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I think we may be underestimating the listener's imagination. Fantasia did not limit mine. I don't think of dinosaurs when I hear Rite of Spring.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Good choices. I especially liked:

Mendelssohn: Hebrides Overture
Flying Dutchman Overture
Dvorak 9th (the 2nd movement picturing Hiawatha in his canoe)
Brahms Academic Festival Overture
Strauss II - Die Fledermaus Overture
Debussy's Prelude to Afternoon of a faun

Other good contenders in my opinion could be:

Excerpts of:
Sinfonie Fanstique (Berlioz) or
Scheherezade (Rimsky-Korsakov) or
Pictures at an Exhibition (Mussorgsky-Ravel's orch.), with Donald duck doing promenades at the picture gallery 
Classical Symphony (Prokofiev)

Danse Macabre (Saint-Saens)
Overture to Ruslan and Ludmilla (Glinka) 



Tuonela Swan (Sibelius)


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> In my case, extra-musical associations significantly lessen the intensity of my first listen to a piece. Perhaps a Disney animated complete opera (not just excerpts) would be a good enough classical music promoter (not necesarily for little kids but still could be). (I think I don't even have to mention that this suggestion is because a lot of ignorant people, perhaps deceived by certain cartoons, think opera is only fat women badly singing overly dramatic or boring stuff. While in reality many operas are very enjoyable in their entirety both in terms of the music and the plot itself)


I agree with this. I prefer not to have specific images artificially forced on me as a music-to-image association, but to each his (or her) own.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Maybe do a chamber music Fantasia? Transfigured Night? :tiphat:


Right. Disney Co. underwriting a story of a woman who is pregnant out of wedlock 'confessing' it to her suitor is going to go over big as a proposal in the board room


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Weston said:


> I think we may be underestimating the listener's imagination. Fantasia did not limit mine. I don't think of dinosaurs when I hear Rite of Spring.


But can you ever listen to Dukas' _L'apprenti sorcier_ without at least a hint of a _Le spectre de Mickey Mouse_, or Amilcare Ponchielli's _Dance of the hours_ without some lingering thoughts about _Hippopotimi in tutus?_

*That is the question *


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Right. Disney Co. underwriting a story of a woman who is pregnant out of wedlock 'confessing' it to her suitor is going to go over big as a proposal in the board room


Eh, they did sacrificial ritual and satanic rite already. A little adultery isn't going to push things much further...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> Eh, they did sacrificial ritual and satanic rite already. A little adultery isn't going to push things much further...


So how thrilled are you that they plan an illustrated version of the complete Das Lied von der Erde? Hmmmm?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> But can you ever listen to Dukas' _L'apprenti sorcier_ without at least a hint of a _Le spectre de Mickey Mouse_, or Amilcare Ponchielli's _Dance of the hours_ without some lingering thoughts about _Hippopotimi in tutus?_
> 
> *That is the question *


Or, for that matter, can you ever read Goethe's _Der Zauberlehrling_ without at least a hint of Dukas's music?


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## GodNickSatan (Feb 28, 2013)

Good thread! Fantasia left pretty high standards that I don't think the sequel was ever going to meet, but it's still an enjoyable film. The highlight for me was the Shostakovich sequence. Not sure what works I'd use if they were going to make a new one, but if they do I hope they use traditional animation.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

PetrB said:


> So how thrilled are you that they plan an illustrated version of the complete Das Lied von der Erde? Hmmmm?



.....
.....
That would be...*breaks down into muffled sobs*


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

If it's in 3-D...
George Crumb's _Night of the Electric Insects_.

One and half minutes of pants-pooping terror and your children will never ask you to fork out for overpriced movie tickets again.


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## cournot (Jan 19, 2014)

violadude said:


> I agree with this. I prefer not to have specific images artificially forced on me as a music-to-image association, but to each his (or her) own.


I'm actually surprised that no one has made the attempt to do a high quality animated opera. I would think that Lohengrin could easily be made into a story that would sell to a cable company such as HBO or even AMC. And if that worked, it would not be a stretch to go to the full Ring Cycle. After all, who thought just a few years ago that there would be a mass audience for Game of Thrones? And animation solves the problem of finding good looking actors who also sing well.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

cournot said:


> I'm actually surprised that no one has made the attempt to do a high quality animated opera. I would think that Lohengrin could easily be made into a story that would sell to a cable company such as HBO or even AMC. And if that worked, it would not be a stretch to go to the full Ring Cycle. After all, who thought just a few years ago that there would be a mass audience for Game of Thrones? And animation solves the problem of finding good looking actors who also sing well.


Much of 'even educated' America _does not do or tolerate subtitles at all well_... it seems they have no patience for it. So I would think twice about _Lohengrin sung in English, because that is what Disney would do!_ 
(About as hideous a notion as that famed recording of _Carmen -- auf Deutsch!_)


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PetrB said:


> But can you ever listen to Dukas' _L'apprenti sorcier_ without at least a hint of a _Le spectre de Mickey Mouse_, or Amilcare Ponchielli's _Dance of the hours_ without some lingering thoughts about _Hippopotimi in tutus?_
> 
> *That is the question *


ACTUALLY, I can very much _not _think about cherubs and pegasuses (pegasi?) when listening to Beethoven 6. You know why? Because when I was only 4 or 5, I SKIPPED that part of Fantasia most of the time because it was boring. :lol:


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

PetrB said:


> But can you ever listen to Dukas' _L'apprenti sorcier_ without at least a hint of a _Le spectre de Mickey Mouse_, or Amilcare Ponchielli's _Dance of the hours_ without some lingering thoughts about _Hippopotimi in tutus?_
> 
> *That is the question *


I don't really listen to Dance of the Hours, but it's true about The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I guess I do mentally see Mickey Mouse. It could just be a statement on the innovation of the Rite of Spring that I don't now picture dinosaurs -- or it might have just been the full nude version I saw recently having something to do with it.


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## cournot (Jan 19, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Much of 'even educated' America _does not do or tolerate subtitles at all well_... it seems they have no patience for it. So I would think twice about _Lohengrin sung in English, because that is what Disney would do!_
> (About as hideous a notion as that famed recording of _Carmen -- auf Deutsch!_)


There is a long tradition of performing opera in translation. I believe even Wagner encouraged the use of English for the Ring in England. And I thought the Goodall Ring was quite good. Hansel and Gretel could be done in English. It is a Christmas staple often performed in English. In fact H and G might be a good production with some appeal. Again, we're not talking blockbuster, but acceptable for a specialized cable audience.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> Or, for that matter, can you ever read Goethe's _Der Zauberlehrling_ without at least a hint of Dukas's music?


I can't even just sweep my floors without, sui generis, thinking of Goethe's _Der Zauberlehrling._ Damned nuisance, a brainworm like that!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Weston said:


> I don't really listen to Dance of the Hours, but it's true about The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I guess I do mentally see Mickey Mouse. It could just be a statement on the innovation of the Rite of Spring that I don't now picture dinosaurs -- or it might have just been the full nude version I saw recently having something to do with it.


Ahhhh, yes, Bach's Brandenburg No. 3 will never be the same.... (Start @ 14'48'')


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I can't listen to Il Barbiere without hearing Bugs singing...

_Welcome to my shop
Let me cut your mop
Let me shave your crop
Daintily
_


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Copeland _Rodeo_.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> Copeland _Rodeo_.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Awesome post*

Absolutely awesome!!!!! It is because of the great friends that I have had the privilege to meet and posts like this I participate in TC. :tiphat:


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Mister Man said:


> I thought Fantasia 2000 was appalling.
> 
> Mozart - Requiem Mass
> Strauss II - Die Fledermaus Overture
> ...


YES!!!!! :cheers:


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## Mister Man (Feb 3, 2014)

If only I could correct that typo.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Mister Man said:


> If only I could correct that typo.


Specifically, that you truly found Fantasia 2000 app_e_aling?

No worries, there. An understandable sentiment to boot: few things in this world as glorious as flying whales[!!!!!]. Were they only cuttlefish--_that_ would have been truly extraordinary.


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## WorthyYeti (May 18, 2014)

Mahler 5, first movement-I just imagine a king rising from the ground leading his troops in battle.
The Bat
Sibelius' first symphony, first movement
Sibelius Violin Concerto


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

I don't mean to be a smart ***, but _see_ http://www.talkclassical.com/27532-what-would-you-want.html for this same discussion.

It would at least provide 20-something extra posts to this thread.


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

But, also, to keep the thread running regardless...

- I think illustrating (in picture) the _Prelude to the afternoon of a faun_ may be too Rated-R for Disney, but that's an obvious starting point - to getting true musical paintings on screen.

- _Water Goblin_, *Dvorak*, as this could obviously be an exciting, cel-shaded show, sort-of avant-garde exposition. But again, probably _too_ literal for Disney.

- Or, if we aren't concerned with length, I would pay overpriced admission for a ticket to see _Daphnis and Chloe_ in animated form -- a pastoral ballet, or city-scape tragedy, or jejune, kindergarten faux-love story sort of thing (the latter being clearly a stretch).


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## mirepoix (Feb 1, 2014)

'La cathédrale engloutie' - Debussy.

It even has a ready made Disney Princess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahut if that's your bag.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

WorthyYeti said:


> Sibelius' first symphony, first movement


I would imagine the 5th to be more apt for the task. I mean, if you want you can find from the calls and dances of various birds to falling leaves to a hunting and the whole thing has such a narrative 'feel'.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I had an interesting experience yesterday that kind of relates to the subject of this thread. For Memorial Day, my 8 year old neighbor triplet girls came over with their parents. At one point out of the complete blue, one of the girls makes a reference to opera and how much she hates it. This caught my attention and so I questioned her on why she hated it. She told me because she had watched a cartoon where Mickey Mouse was watching an opera and he covered his ears or his ears fell off(something along those lines). Now I don't know if there really is a cartoon like this. She might have just misunderstood what was going on. But regardless I actually found it kind of funny that this little girl thought she hated opera just because of a scene with Mickey Mouse. Afterwards, I tried to convince her otherwise and told her how great opera was and half-jokingly offered her my blu ray copy of Cosi Fan Tutte. She told me "Yuk!" and refused it. Haha! Anyway, hopefully if this horrible cartoon really does exist, someone will have it removed before it poisons the minds of any more little kids.


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