# Round Two: Avant de quitter from Faust: Hvorostovsky, Souzay, Tibbett



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Artist: Dmitri Hvorostovsky Royal Opera House




Gérard Souzay singing Valentin's invocation "Avant de quitter" from Charles Gounod's opera "Faust".




Avant de quitter ces lieux (Faust) · Lawrence Tibbett Lebendige Vergangenheit - Lawrence Tibbett


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Now this is a challenge! The rendition I grew up on, by my favorite baritone in operatic history, singing like a god! Or a rendition by a man who was only a name until a few minutes ago and whose rendition made me fall in love with his singing on the spot. I know nothing of "French style" but I know the man is considered a great French singer and you can hear the degree to which he is saying something with every phrase, immediately. He removes the standard ritards, and doesn't do the typical ending and manages to make the bridge section sound like something other than "boy going loudly off to war"! And his voice has plenty of appeal. I guess Larry has his share of wins around here. For me the new discovery, Gerry, makes my day!

Hvorostovsky fan that I am, were this earlier in his career I would have expected him to do something wonderful with this as well but I'm assuming this is late because I did not find it wonderful.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I love Hvorotovsky’s dark tones, but he doesn’t sound comfortable in the highest reaches. Tibbet’s sovereign voice, lovely _legato _is a balm, but like ScottK above, I prefer Souzay’s rendition. It just sounds “right!”


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Now this is a challenge! The rendition I grew up on, by my favorite baritone in operatic history, singing like a god! Or a rendition by a man who was only a name until a few minutes ago and whose rendition made me fall in love with his singing on the spot. I know nothing of "French style" but I know the man is considered a great French singer and you can hear the degree to which he is saying something with every phrase, immediately. He removes the standard ritards, and doesn't do the typical ending and manages to make the bridge section sound like something other than "boy going loudly off to war"! And his voice has plenty of appeal. I guess Larry has his share of wins around here. For me the new discovery, Gerry, makes my day!
> 
> Hvorostovsky fan that I am, were this earlier in his career I would have expected him to do something wonderful with this as well but I'm assuming this is late because I did not find it wonderful.


Since just you and Mas had played I switched Hvorostovsky to a recording from 2004 which was almost 20 years ago so he should sound better.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I love Hvorotovsky’s dark tones, but he doesn’t sound comfortable in the highest reaches. Tibbet’s sovereign voice, lovely _legato _is a balm, but like ScottK above, I prefer Souzay’s rendition. It just sounds “right!”


I posted an earlier version of Hvor.... singing which should be better. Glad you enjoyed it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Now this is a challenge! The rendition I grew up on, by my favorite baritone in operatic history, singing like a god! Or a rendition by a man who was only a name until a few minutes ago and whose rendition made me fall in love with his singing on the spot. I know nothing of "French style" but I know the man is considered a great French singer and you can hear the degree to which he is saying something with every phrase, immediately. He removes the standard ritards, and doesn't do the typical ending and manages to make the bridge section sound like something other than "boy going loudly off to war"! And his voice has plenty of appeal. I guess Larry has his share of wins around here. For me the new discovery, Gerry, makes my day!
> 
> Hvorostovsky fan that I am, were this earlier in his career I would have expected him to do something wonderful with this as well but I'm assuming this is late because I did not find it wonderful.


Souzay is not available for much other than art songs on Youtube.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Souzay is an easy win for me. Tibbett sings magnificently of course, but Souzay does far more than sing. He really communicates the text and you feel he means every word. I also prefer the way he sings the aria pretty straight without too many ritartandi. His voice is very beautiful too.

Hvorostovsky came in third for me. The voice had less freedom than both Tibbett and Souzay and his French was not great.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

(oh dear here I go again into my little corner, I'll bet)
There wasn't even a doubt in my mind where I had to go back and compare. Tibbett easily wins the day for me, even though Souzay's French was superior. But that voice just blew me away. Hvor, who I can look at for hours and fantasize just had too much ingolata for me, much as I love his voice.
I'll just go cozy up to my spot after I read others and vote.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Since just you and Mas had played I switched Hvorostovsky to a recording from 2004 which was almost 20 years ago so he should sound better.


Excellent change… that is the sound I was expecting! Doesn’t change my vote but shows Dimitri in a much more competitive light and is just a pleasure to listen to!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Souzay gives a faultless performance and I'll vote for him, while noting that it's Tibbett whose voice makes the hairs on my arms stand at attention.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I am not an expert on Hvorostovsky, but I guess, this is not the best stage of his career and he could do better other time. I sensed effort.

For both other singers, I was relieved to get a slow conducting, which I want here, but didn't have it in the first round.
And I liked the voices. I listened to both twice.
However, Souzzay has several things in his favour:

he resembles the Valentine who lives in my head (I'll try to link that other guy, you probably never heard of him)
he sounds more like someone deep in prayer. I want Valentine to be passionate, but in an esoteric way.
a perfect French
a lighter baritone, less fatherly
Souzzay wins for me.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

The name of my Valentine is Lajos Miller. He was on the set of vinyls of the complete Faust, together with Peter Dvorsky, Sergej Kopcak and Magdalena Hajossyova. And he sung in a nice French, but youtube offered to me his Valentine in Hungarian, which gave me some laughs. Enjoy ! Isn't he handsome as well ?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> I am not an expert on Hvorostovsky, but I guess, this is not the best stage of his career and he could do better other time. I sensed effort.
> 
> For both other singers, I was relieved to get a slow conducting, which I want here, but didn't have it in the first round.
> And I liked the voices. I listened to both twice.
> ...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BBSVK said:


> The name of my Valentine is Lajos Miller. He was on the set of vinyls of the complete Faust, together with Peter Dvorsky, Sergej Kopcak and Magdalena Hajossyova. And he sung in a nice French, but youtube offered to me his Valentine in Hungarian, which gave me some laughs. Enjoy ! Isn't he handsome as well ?


I've had to wait so long to hear French opera sung in Hungarian that I'd completely given up hope.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BBSVK said:


> The name of my Valentine is Lajos Miller. He was on the set of vinyls of the complete Faust, together with Peter Dvorsky, Sergej Kopcak and Magdalena Hajossyova. And he sung in a nice French, but youtube offered to me his Valentine in Hungarian, which gave me some laughs. Enjoy ! Isn't he handsome as well ?


I think your Lajos Miller sounds pretty good ! I like him. I'd think he'd do well on here because he doesn't try to " make a baritone sound" I've definitely heard the name.....probably from Sam Goody days leafing through countless recordings of everything!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Can someone answer.....the first round drove me crazy with everyone coming right in on the first measure of accompanying 123's on the aria proper. I was sure there was a measure with no Singing but they all came right in. Then this group was mixed but at least Tibbet - I think- took the measure before singing. I sang this in a competition once ( don't ask!) and had no doubts about my expectation that there should be 4 123's before singing. Why does it differ?


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Souzay is not available for much other than art songs on Youtube.


This was a winner for "Historical Vocal" awarded by Gramophone - Maybe @Tsaraslondon can do a contest featuring one of the selections -











"This disc enshrines the most compelling accounts of "mélodies" by Fauré and Chausson over the past four decades and some of the most profoundly satisfying ever recorded. In the Fauré, Souzay's clear, finely pointed diction set a benchmark that few have ever reached."

Link to complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l9JGFk426cyqjiEvvU1lXECLX4oa63HXQ



*Works*

anon.: Tambourin
Boesset, A: Me veux-tu voir mourir
Canteloube: Songs of the Auvergne (selection)
Chausson: Cantique à l'épouse, Op. 36 No. 1 (Jounet)
Chausson: Le Charme, Op. 2 No. 2 (Silvestre)
Chausson: Le Colibri, Op. 2 No. 7 (de Lisle)
Chausson: Le temps des lilas
Chausson: Les Papillons, Op. 2 No. 3 (Gautier)
Chausson: Sérénade italienne, Op. 2 No. 5 (Bourget)
Chausson: Songs
Fauré: Après un rêve, Op. 7 No. 1
Fauré: Arpège, Op. 76 No. 2 (Samain)
Fauré: Au bord de l'eau, Op. 8 No. 1 (Prudhomme)
Fauré: Clair de Lune, Op. 46 No. 2
Fauré: En sourdine, Op. 58 No. 2 (Verlaine)
Fauré: L'horizon chimérique & other songs
Fauré: L'horizon chimérique, Op. 118
Fauré: Tristesse, Op. 6 No. 2


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> This was a winner for "Historical Vocal" awarded by Gramophone - Maybe @Tsaraslondon can do a contest featuring one of the selections -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, lots of song mainly. Unlike mezzos who are short on material I am fairly full on tenor arias now but if I ever start doing songs there I will look for him.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Yes, lots of song mainly. Unlike mezzos who are short on material I am fairly full on tenor arias now but if I ever start doing songs there I will look for him.


The post was intended for Tsaraslondon - not you - He's run this kind of competition before and when I read his post, it seemed like something that he might be interested in doing.

Slow down, comprehension is more important than speed - unless, of course, you're actually being chased by something that will kill you if it catches you, in which case, comprehension should be a distant second.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> The post was intended for Tsaraslondon - not you - He's run this kind of competition before and when I read his post, it seemed like something that he might be interested in doing.
> 
> Slow down, comprehension is more important than speed - unless, of course, you're actually being chased by something that will kill you if it catches you, in which case, comprehension takes a back seat to speed.


No no. I looked for arias to use him in because people really enjoyed his considerable talents. He sings almost all songs. You are right, T London might wish to post a song contest with him. I don't know French art songs well except for an album I have by Baker.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

May I recommend to the world at large Martial Singher? Paris Opéra in the 1930's, Met 1943-1958, recordings into the stereo era, notable pedagogue at the Curtis Institute:






This link is associated with a long and interesting Lebendige Vergangenheit playlist, strong in French repertory but including some Wagner in French (including the Telramund-Ortrud duet from Lohengrin with the pre-Met Marjorie Lawrence). He's also the Amfortas (in German) in this Parsifal (1936, Teatro Colón, Buenos Aires), 



Spoiler: 1936 Parsifal, listenable but not remotely hi-fi











and the Pelleas in this 1945 Met broadcast (exists in much better sound, but not on YouTube)






and the Golaud in this 1954 Met broadcast, which exists but not on YouTube

Pelléas.................Theodor Uppman
Mélisande...............Nadine Conner
Golaud..................Martial *Singher*
Arkel...................Jerome Hines
Geneviève...............Martha Lipton
Yniold..................Vilma Georgiou
Physician...............Luben Vichey

Conductor...............Pierre Monteux

and the Mephistopheles in the RCA Damnation de Faust with the Boston Symphony under Munch



Spoiler: 1954 Damnation de Faust, BS)/Munch


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> May I recommend to the world at large Martial Singher? Paris Opéra in the 1930's, Met 1943-1958, recordings into the stereo era, notable pedagogue at the Curtis Institute:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will look into including him in the contests. I learn a lot from you guys who are smarter than me.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> This was a winner for "Historical Vocal" awarded by Gramophone - Maybe @Tsaraslondon can do a contest featuring one of the selections -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe in the New Year, when I have more time. Fauré's _Après un rêve_ might be a good one, as it's been recorded so often, even by Barbra Streisand.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Tibbett. Les autres ne lui arrivent pas à la cheville.

Souzay ne chante même pas dans la même tonalité ! C'est franchement ridicule. Il baisse l'air d'un ton et nous livre un chant sans puissance. Y'a pas photo.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Maybe in the New Year, when I have more time. Fauré's _Après un rêve_ might be a good one, as it's been recorded so often, even by Barbra Streisand.


I made a contest with three contestants including Souzay. Most of the versions are for violin.Most of the vocals were graduate concerts with bad dresses.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I made a contest with three contestants including Souzay. Most of the versions are for violin.Most of the vocals were graduate concerts with bad dresses.


I think I could probably find more. Just give me time.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I love Tibbett, but I expect Souzay will win this, let's see.

Hvorostovsky I heard live in this and I like him, but he never struck me as being quite in the same league as those who came before him. He sings this nicely and has a pleasant voice, he sounds strained in the middle section and in any case I would want quite a bit more swagger or finesse... or something.

Souzay is in an entirely different league. The voice comes out flowing and free. This aria isn't a huge emotion wringer, but there's more intent behind his phrasing and shading than Hvorostovsky's plainly done performance. Very enjoyable.

Tibbett probably had the greatest voice of all three of these and he puts it to great use here. Souzay sounds more emolient, Tibbett more heroic. I like both and I'm not sure which I prefer. Souzay is more poetic and Tibbett more operatic. This is a difficult one, but I'm going to pick Tibbett here. I expect Souzay will win and I totally understand why.

N.


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