# Favorite Brahms German Requiem recording?



## Orange Soda King

I'm looking for your opinions of the best/your favorite Brahms German Requiem recordings. I have the famous Klemperer one on LP, but I want one with a stronger choir; much clearer and less muddy sound. Also, I often sopranos that are flat or wimpy on the high soft notes in the first movement...

Any suggestions? 

EDIT: I just stumbled upon this one and absolutely adore what I am hearing so far. Gardiner never fails to deliver passion, but also intense clarity (very important in choral singing... Who likes a muddy choir?)


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## Bradius

Levine CSO, Very powerful. Love the drums. My number one.
Klemperer with the Philharmonia is a classic. Love DFD.
Gardiner is great too.


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## Llyranor

Yeah, it's the Klemperer for me. I adore it.


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## DavidA

Klemperer and Philharmonia. Classic.


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## Selby

I also lean towards the Klemperer, but I do really like the newer Gardiner. The Gardiner feels almost reduced; it's intimate, which I like. Although, the first Gardiner is by no means bad.


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## Vaneyes

HvK (DG, EMI), Herreweghe (harmonia mundi). :tiphat:


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## StlukesguildOhio

I love the Klemperer... but I'm also enamored of both Herreweghe's and Gardiner's recordings.


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## Novelette

Bradius said:


> Levine CSO, Very powerful. Love the drums. My number one.
> Klemperer with the Philharmonia is a classic. Love DFD.
> Gardiner is great too.


Agreed about all three! Klemperer's is still my primary recording, but Gardiner's is only barely second.


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## Selby

Such a rare thread in that there is so much consensus. Cheers.


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## Guest

Klemperer - hands down. After that, both of the Gardiner recordings - the one on Phillips and the one on SDG. Rafael Kubelik also has a good on on the Audite label with the Bavarian Radio Chorus and Symphony Orchestra.


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## hreichgott

I own and love Herreweghe/Harmonia mundi. Cannot comment on Klemperer as have not heard it. Apparently am a philistine.


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## Vaneyes

The OP wrote, "I have the famous Klemperer one on LP, but I want one with a stronger choir; much clearer and less muddy sound."

That's exactly how the EMI GROC CD came across to me. In addition to sub-standard projection/sound, I thought the proceedings were all too Klemperer-like (slow).


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## Moscow-Mahler

I have only one recording of this piece, which is one by Abbado, BPO and a Sweden chorus. I like it very much. I especially like the baritone in "Herr, lehre doch mich".

I have a shiver down to my spine during when he is singing about _Unruhe._


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## hwsoderlund

Moscow-Mahler said:


> I have only one recording of this piece, which is one by Abbado, BPO and a Sweden chorus. I like it very much. I especially like the baritone in "Herr, lehre doch mich".
> 
> I have a shiver down to my spine during when he is singing about _Unruhe._


Totally agree about the baritone, Andreas Schmidt. This is the recording on spotify:


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## Vinyl

I can't recall which recording I have on CD, but this thread inspired me to play the 1961 Klemperer/Schwartzkopf/Fiescher-Diesaku recording on EMI HMV, and despite a certain woolly charachter, particularly to the choir, this has my attention. There is a nerve here. And that often trumps other considerations. 
The CD I have (elsewhere, which is why I can't check what it is) didn't capture my interest, for some reason. It never called me to get played. It sat there and moped and despite bad conscience I never played it. 
Thanks to this thread, I have now thoroughly enjoyed the Germen Requiem for the first time, complete with goosebumps and held breath. Thanks. 
So, while possibly not my all-time favourite, pending future discoveries, here's a vote for Klemperer. I certainly get how it earned its rep as a classic performance.


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## realdealblues

I guess my...

Overall Favorite: Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia

Historical (Mono) Favorite: Rudolf Kempe/Berlin

Runner-up: Bruno Walter/New York


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## AClockworkOrange

realdealblues said:


> I guess my...
> 
> Overall Favorite: Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia
> 
> Historical (Mono) Favorite: Rudolf Kempe/Berlin


I couldn't agree more


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## Marschallin Blair

AClockworkOrange said:


> I couldn't agree more











Odd Marschallin Out on this one: My heady inclinations go to the sixties Karajan with Miss silver-throat Gundula, Berlin, and the Wiener Singverein. Karajan conducts the ending of the second movement like its the Missa Solemnis-- and not Brahms; and like his life depended on it.


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## DavidA

I have the Klemperer. Really great recording.


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## Marschallin Blair

DavidA said:


> I have the Klemperer. Really great recording.


It IS nice; lovely in a reserved way. It's just a dish too far for me. The Karajan Bordeaux claret is right at my heart.


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## DavidA

Marschallin Blair said:


> It IS nice; lovely in a reserved way. It's just a dish too far for me. The Karajan Bordeaux claret is right at my heart.


Have not heard HvK in this work. Guess I'll have to rectify that sometime!


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## AClockworkOrange

Marschallin Blair said:


> It IS nice; lovely in a reserved way. It's just a dish too far for me. The Karajan Bordeaux claret is right at my heart.


I must admit, I favour Kempe over Klemperer on this piece but it is _very_ close.


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## Marschallin Blair

DavidA said:


> Have not heard HvK in this work. Guess I'll have to rectify that sometime!


You're in for a treat, Dear. The Karajan has the most appealing double sense on this one: an ideal cast and an teeming-with-majesty reading. . . the sound is a bit constricted though; unlike the Klemperer.


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## Marschallin Blair

AClockworkOrange said:


> I must admit, I favour Kempe over Klemperer on this piece but it is _very_ close.


I haven't heard Kempe on this. I'd like to. I adore his Heldenleben.


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## nightscape

Wow, 2 pages in and no one has mentioned Blomstedt and the SFS?


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## Guest

nightscape said:


> Wow, 2 pages in and no one has mentioned Blomstedt and the SFS?
> 
> View attachment 33548


Any particular reason we should have? There are so many recordings - honestly, you are the first person I have seen recommend this recording.


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## nightscape

I'm not really on classical message boards a lot, so I'm not sure what other people discuss in terms of recordings of this work, but I guess I figured it was more well-known, just based on the quality of the recording and the performance.

I just looked up some reviews and it seems to be well-respected and recommended. Maybe give it a try if you can locate it, seems to be out of print, or in limited supply.


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## Oreb

I like the Simon Rattle from 2007. It's live and very engrossing.

Agree with the Klemperer consensus, probably my first choice.


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## SixFootScowl

If you are in the southeast Michigan area, the Brahms German Requiem is being performed April 4th at the Hill Auditorium on the University of Michigan campus. Hill Auditorium is supposed to be world class acoustics. I know Messiah sounded wonderful there last December.

University Musical Society Page on the Requiem


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## bnt

I have an interpretation by Giulini with the Wiener that I like very much
Will try the ones suggested by other members as well 

Happy listening everyone


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## SixFootScowl

Marschallin Blair said:


> View attachment 33494
> 
> 
> Odd Marschallin Out on this one: My heady inclinations go to the sixties Karajan with Miss silver-throat Gundula, Berlin, and the Wiener Singverein. Karajan conducts the ending of the second movement like its the Missa Solemnis-- and not Brahms; and like his life depended on it.


Ah yes, that is the first Brahms German Requiem I purchased, before I even knew if I liked the work, on the basis of Gundula Janowitz. I later saw it performed live. since them I keep the Janowitz track on my player but for my complete Brahms German Requiem I really like this live performance by the Academic Orchestra and Choir in Copenhagen (CLIPS).

Here is a later live Janowiz performance from the Brahms German Requiem:


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## DavidA

Marschallin Blair said:


> You're in for a treat, Dear. The Karajan has the most appealing double sense on this one: an ideal cast and an teeming-with-majesty reading. . . the sound is a bit constricted though; unlike the Klemperer.


The sound was deemed a problem when it first came out.


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## torbjoern

*Giulini*

My favourite is Giulini's recording with Wiener Philarmonic, rec.1987
Barbara Bonney and Andreas Schmidt soloists.


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## flamencosketches

Resurrecting a dead thread for a great work.

Here are my favorites in order:




























I need to spend more time wth the latter of these, Gardiner/ORR, but lately I am so enamored with the Karajan/Berlin that I don't want to hear any others. I also want to hear the Karajan/Vienna digital recording from late in his career. His late Vienna recordings tended to be amazing, so I have high hopes for that one. How many times did Karajan record this work? At least 4, I reckon.

The Klemperer is great, but it has for some reason been supplanted by the Karajan, which I know is lesser but somehow prefer lately.


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## Rogerx

I love this one, followed by the Karajan and Wolfgang Sawallisch with Margaret Price (soprano) & Thomas Allen (baritone)


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## flamencosketches

Is there any love for the Robert Shaw/Atlanta Symphony recording? I can't find snippets online. I came this close to buying it yesterday at a used store but ultimately passed it up.


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> Is there any love for the Robert Shaw/Atlanta Symphony recording? I can't find snippets online. I came this close to buying it yesterday at a used store but ultimately passed it up.


It's a pretty typical Shaw product. The chorus is superb, the soloists are strong, the ASO plays beautifully, and the recorded sound is excellent. But there's something missing - Brahms.


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## flamencosketches

wkasimer said:


> It's a pretty typical Shaw product. The chorus is superb, the soloists are strong, the ASO plays beautifully, and the recorded sound is excellent. But there's something missing - Brahms.


I see. I may have to check it out for the great sound alone. The Atlanta symphony is the home team for me so I like supporting them.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> I see. I may have to check it out for the great sound alone. The Atlanta symphony is the home team for me so I like supporting them.


Is that on Telarc? I bought a bunch of those when I was starting out with classical CDs in the mid 80s. The only Shaw CD I have is Handel's Messiah.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Rogerx said:


> I love this one, followed by the Karajan and Wolfgang Sawallisch with Margaret Price (soprano) & Thomas Allen (baritone)


Yes, this is an excellent recording. Probably the best digital modern instrument version.

But you can also get it in a box set of Brahms works with chorus and orchestra, a steal right now on Amazon:


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## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> Resurrecting a dead thread for a great work. I need to spend more time wth the latter of these, Gardiner/ORR, but lately I am so enamored with the Karajan/Berlin that I don't want to hear any others. I also want to hear the Karajan/Vienna digital recording from late in his career. His late Vienna recordings tended to be amazing, so I have high hopes for that one. How many times did Karajan record this work? At least 4, I reckon.


I haven't listened in ages, but I was very impressed with Karajan's last recording of the work with the WPO. Some of Karajan's late recordings have a directness of expression that seems to harken back to his earlier work in the 60's, and the rekindled relationship with the WPO late in life also seems to have inspired him to greater heights.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Is that on Telarc? I bought a bunch of those when I was starting out with classical CDs in the mid 80s. The only Shaw CD I have is Handel's Messiah.


Yep it's on Telarc. Good label.

That Sinopoli looks great too, I may try to check it out.


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## howlingfantods

Baron Scarpia said:


> I haven't listened in ages, but I was very impressed with Karajan's last recording of the work with the WPO. Some of Karajan's late recordings have a directness of expression that seems to harken back to his earlier work in the 60's, and the rekindled relationship with the WPO late in life also seems to have inspired him to greater heights.


My favorites are Karajan's last and his first--Hendricks and Van Dam on the last, Schwarzkopf and Hotter on the first.

For Furtwangler fans, the 1948 performance with the Stockholm SO is magnetic, but the sound is a little iffy.


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## Brahmsianhorn

howlingfantods said:


> For Furtwangler fans, the 1948 performance with the Stockholm SO is magnetic, but the sound is a little iffy.


The 1947 Lucerne is even more magnetic and the sound much, much worse. But I love the performance so much it's still my desert island Brahms Requiem.


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## howlingfantods

Brahmsianhorn said:


> The 1947 Lucerne is even more magnetic and the sound much, much worse. But I love the performance so much it's still my desert island Brahms Requiem.


That one is quite lovely but the sound really is very compromised. Of course, Lindberg-Torlind and Sonnerstedt are no match for Schwarzkopf and Hotter but I think you can get more of what Furtwangler is going for with the better sound of the Stockholm. Worth listening to both though, for sure. And Schwarzkopf and Hotter can be heard in much better sound on the 1947 Karajan, another very fine recording.


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## 89Koechel

Well, thanks to flamenco, RogerX, and especially Brahmsianhorn & howlingfantods for resurrecting this discussion ... and specifying some of the best of all. ... I have Sinopoli, on an old FM dub (plus Schicksalslied and Gesang der Parzen - BOTH, truly nice & interesting interpretations, of the lesser-known Brahms). ... As usual, I'll make a positive vote FOR Wilhelm F/WF, and the Stockholm 1948 performance ... in the reissue that I have - Music & Arts CD-289. I've also SEEN, on Amazon, the 1947 Lucerne performance (from HB Direct). Just wondered, are there any, LARGE differences between WF/'48, and WF/'47 and even the Sinopoli, or the von Karajan? Or, would you guys say that ALL are worthy of listening-to? I think I know the answers, to a degree - and, thanks!


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## Bill H.

wkasimer said:


> It's a pretty typical Shaw product. The chorus is superb, the soloists are strong, the ASO plays beautifully, and the recorded sound is excellent. But there's something missing - Brahms.


Shaw also made a much earlier recording, back in 1947 (about the same time as the Furtwängler and Karajan performances also mentioned here), with the RCA Victor Chorale and Orchestra, during the time of his ascendant reputation as a choral conductor in NYC. The soloists were Eleanor Steber and James Pease.

It's not a well known recording, but I like it, as it documents the wunderkind phase of Shaw's career. I made a transfer of an RCA LP reissue (it was originally on 78s). The LPs were rather noisy, but I cleaned up the sound as best I could and manually removed the worst of the clicks. Anybody is welcome to download the FLAC zip from this link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByTWd_3f2RpSdlk5UzYzT3o2UG8


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## Oakey

This is also the one I have. Love it. One of the most beautiful pieces of music to my ears


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## gellio

I just got the Klemperer recording. I now understand what all the fuss is about, but I still prefer the Harnoncourt to Klemperer (and Gardiner, Giulini and Karajan).

Any other recordings people suggest?


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## Brahmsianhorn

Heard the newest Gardiner yesterday and was floored by how awful it was. It sounds like a quartet of singers in a bathroom. Aside from the lack of opulence, the interpretation is not near as exciting or interesting as their first version, which is a reference for me. The new version is also fussier, with distracting overdone consonants.

To top it off, the soloists are some of the worst I have ever heard, particularly the soprano, who sounds like a college freshman making her debut as a soloist.

Overall, it was hard for me to believe this is the same outfit, as the first Gardiner is one of my favorite choral recordings.


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## vincula

This Karajan one doesn't get quoted as often. Live from Salzburg '57 with my beloved Lisa della Casa









It's also included in Karajan's Orfeo box _Salzburger Orchesterkonzerte 1957_, that packs some nice gems too...

















Regards,

Vincula


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## Granate

Brahms
*Ein Deutsches Requiem, op.45*

*Wilhelm Furtwängler,* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Hans Hotter, Lucerne Festival 1947
*Otto Klemperer,* Wilma Lipp, Eberhard Wächter, Wiener Philharmoniker 1958
*Bruno Walter,* Imgaard Seefried, George London, New York Philharmonic Orchestra 1954 (Columbia)
*Otto Klemperer,* Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Philharmonia Orchestra 1961 (EMI)
*Giuseppe Sinopoli,* Lucia Popp, Wolfgang Brendel, Czech Philharmonic 1983 (DG)

These are my five favourite recordings of the work done after challenging all recordings available. I'm leaving out modern recordings as good as the Harnoncourt or the Harding new one, which I praise for their sound quality.

If 1947 is a year that scares you in terms of sonic quality, the Furtwängler Lucerne performance will prove you right. It's as bad as it can get, but the performance and especially singing lives up to the legend. Bruno Walter did a great one but I don't remember why was it so good in studio. The Live recording with the same forces available in Archipel cannot be streamed at the moment. Klemperer shares to great recordings: one which just gives me the chills the Vienna radio performance in 1958, just posted in streaming platforms, once only available on Testament. The second and most famous one is the Philharmonia recording which I really liked and appreciated for very similar features. Finally, the Sinopoli Czech recording with the Prague Philharmonic chorus was the underdog of the stereo challenge. The stunning solo singing and the orchestral quality are the ones that lift the recording to heavens.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I much prefer the live Bruno Walter/NYPO with Seefried and London to the studio


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## Granate

^^

Good! I've never been able to listen to the live one. Do you know a place where I can stream it? In case we can't, could you share a rip of the cd you have to try it? Thanks.


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## Brahmsianhorn




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## Ras

gellio said:


> I just got the Klemperer recording. I now understand what all the fuss is about, but I still prefer the Harnoncourt to Klemperer (and Gardiner, Giulini and Karajan).
> 
> Any other recordings people suggest?


My favorites: 
Solti (Decca), Klemperer (EMI/Warner), James Levine (RCA), Kurt Masur (Warner), Bruno Walter (Columbia/Sony).
If I was forced to keep just two of them I would take Solti and Klemperer with me... (I also have: Gardiner (Philips), but I don't like it.)

I bought most of these in budget boxes, but I don't know if they are still in print.


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## Brahmsianhorn

So this one came as a surprise. I had never heard the digital DG Karajan. I think this may now be my favorite stereo version, topping even Klemperer and Gardiner.

The entire thing sounds beautiful, and the soloists are among the best on record. Karajan's pacing and phrasing is the major draw. He knew just how to do it right. (Klemperer is too unbending in this work for me)

The chorus sounds maybe just a bit recessed and lacking definition, but that is often the case with Karajan and fits with his homogenized sound world. It also seems there was a bit of playing around with the volume. About 2/3 through the 3rd movement, right when the soloist passage is concluded, the choir seems to suddenly drop off the face of the earth, only to slowly be brought back to life as the fugue begins.

But the main thing is how the spirituality of the piece comes through. I've listened to this 4-5 times now over the past week. It did not receive the same critical press that Karajan's earlier versions did, but the Amazon reviews seem to differ. The reputable Ralph Moore counts this as his top Requiem, so that's good enough company for me.


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## Orfeo

Brahmsianhorn said:


> So this one came as a surprise. I had never heard the digital DG Karajan. I think this may now be my favorite stereo version, topping even Klemperer and Gardiner.
> 
> The entire thing sounds beautiful, and the soloists are among the best on record. Karajan's pacing and phrasing is the major draw. He knew just how to do it right. (Klemperer is too unbending in this work for me)
> 
> The chorus sounds maybe just a bit recessed and lacking definition, but that is often the case with Karajan and fits with his homogenized sound world. It also seems there was a bit of playing around with the volume. About 2/3 through the 3rd movement, right when the soloist passage is concluded, the choir seems to suddenly drop off the face of the earth, only to slowly be brought back to life as the fugue begins.
> 
> But the main thing is how the spirituality of the piece comes through. I've listened to this 4-5 times now over the past week. It did not receive the same critical press that Karajan's earlier versions did, but the Amazon reviews seem to differ. The reputable Ralph Moore counts this as his top Requiem, so that's good enough company for me.


No argument here.


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## Endeavour

It's not one of my "favorite" works so I've only got about 15 recordings of the German requiem. Klemperer has always been my "go to" when I wanted to hear it, but I recently sat down with the Giulini/Vienna recording for the first time and for some reason it really resonated with me. I've never been a huge fan of Giulini but that one (at least on first listen) seemed to have something special to it for me.


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## Granate

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I much prefer the live Bruno Walter/NYPO with Seefried and London to the studio


This one is finally on streaming sites. Compared to the Studio recording, I liked the faster pacing, but in general I need a bit more depth in the chorus to appreciate it. I already own a scrambly Furtwängler to cover that gap.


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