# Baroque opera



## Guest (Oct 14, 2011)

I don't know if there has been a thread on this topic, but I would love to know what people think about the theatre works of Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully, Monteverdi - all the baroque masters. My favourite is Handel - his operas are simply stunning and I cannot get enough of these. Rameau's "Pygmalion" is an absolute favourite of his and all of Purcell's theatre works are magnificent. What about specific performances of these works too? I'd love to hear about it.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I don't know if there has been a thread on this topic, but I would love to know what people think about the theatre works of Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully, Monteverdi - all the baroque masters. My favourite is Handel - his operas are simply stunning and I cannot get enough of these. Rameau's "Pygmalion" is an absolute favourite of his and all of Purcell's theatre works are magnificent. What about specific performances of these works too? I'd love to hear about it.


You'll find lots of information on the operas of all 6 composers above in their respective threads hosted at the Opera on DVD and Blu-ray subforum (operas on CD are allowed there, too).


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

I agree that Purcell and Handel were great with opera. Handel's _Ombra Mai Fu_ and _Where shall I fly_ are great pieces of opera seria.


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## jdavid (Oct 4, 2011)

Marc-Antoine Charpentier - 1643-1704 -









His MEDEA written in his mid-20's maybe, is fine. The recording to get, bar none, is by William Christie and Les Arts Florissants (devoted to Baroque works) here is the site - http://www.arts-florissants.com/site/accueil.php4

In the title role is the great Lorraine Hunt who passed from this earth at the zenith of her powers. The opera took a couple of listenings before it began to work its magic, so I would say that it is not as immediate as Handel, but then Handel is among the greatest of composers. Check out Andreas Scholl's beautiful (contre-tenor) all Handel album on Harmonia Mundi entitled OMBRA MAI FU - this guy's voice made me rethink the counter-tenor - his tone and musicality are not to be believed until heard!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Purcell's Dido and Aeneas is terrific. 

First post in the opera thread! Its about the only thing I can contribute at this point.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Like a good many classical music lovers I built a collection of the core repertoire... and then... with the passage of time... I began to delve deeper into the music of the Romantic, Post-Romantic and Early Modernist eras. beyond Mozart, Haydn, Gluck, and a few others I had (and still have) little from the "Classical Era". I was always enamored of Bach, and he along with Handel and Vivaldi were among the first composers whose music I purchased on my own. A couple of years ago I began to make a concerted effort to explore the baroque in far greater depth. With that effort, I discovered the Baroque was just as rich and diverse as Romanticism or any other era. Among the Baroque opera composers I have explored are Lully, Rameau, Alessandro Scarlatti, Johann Adolph Hasse, Antonio Vivaldi, Monteverdi, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Henri Purcell, and G.F. Handel. I have also explored any number of recitals of arias by the above composers as well as Nicolo Porpora, Giovanni Battista Alveri, Leonardo Leo, Antonio Caldara, J.C. Bach, Giovanni Battista Bassani, etc...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I don't know if there has been a thread on this topic, but I would love to know what people think about the theatre works of Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully, Monteverdi - all the baroque masters. My favourite is Handel - his operas are simply stunning and I cannot get enough of these. Rameau's "Pygmalion" is an absolute favourite of his and all of Purcell's theatre works are magnificent. What about specific performances of these works too? I'd love to hear about it.


My favourite Baroque opera composer is Handel, too. His best operas stand up well to any other opera from any period and conversations with experienced opera folks and perfomers alike place Handel along with Mozart, Verdi and Wagner as undisupted four masters of opera. Puccini might be included too.

Which operas of Handel have you listened to? Which ones are more special to you?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

HC... I have delved quite a bit into Handel's other vocal works, his cantatas, the Coronation Anthems, and a good number of the oratorios. So far with the operas I have _Tamerlano, Ariodante_, and _Rinaldo_. _Giulio Cesare_ is highly rated. Of the other operas, which 4 or 5 would you rate the highest. I'm looking to start plugging the gap in my collection of Handel's operas.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

...experienced opera folks and perfomers alike place Handel along with Mozart, Verdi and Wagner as undisupted four masters of opera. Puccini might be included too.

Don't forget Gluck and Richard Strauss. It is quite possible that Rimsky-Korsakov also ranks among the finest operatic composers.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> HC... I have delved quite a bit into Handel's other vocal works, his cantatas, the Coronation Anthems, and a good number of the oratorios. So far with the operas I have _Tamerlano, Ariodante_, and _Rinaldo_. _Giulio Cesare_ is highly rated. Of the other operas, which 4 or 5 would you rate the highest. I'm looking to start plugging the gap in my collection of Handel's operas.


Great start. In addition to the four operas you mentioned, I might add _Alcina, Rodelinda, Orlando, Agrippina_ in no particular order. Probably enough to get you on another level of appreciation! Have fun.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Don't forget Gluck and Richard Strauss. It is quite possible that Rimsky-Korsakov also ranks among the finest operatic composers.


Interesting you mentioned Gluck and Rimsky-Korsakov. Gluck wrote a lot of operas but only a fraction have been recorded. He certainly was quite influential and even at times Mozart have sounded Gluckian on a superficial level, and he was quite original enough to have a unique voice of his own. As for R-K, I try not to tempt myaskovsky2002 into turning anything of a mere mention that is Russian into a full blown Russian opera thread! Yes, I have some of R-K's operas though unfortunately some of the recordings deserved a better performance. I would probably include both these two folks in the next tier of capable folks. More needs to be discovered for Gluck's vast oeuvre and I would say, broadly speaking, some alternative recordings for R-K's.

R. Strauss is definitely right up there, too, in my humble opinion. I would go even further to suggest he was one of the very finest 20th century composers, easily. A joy to listen to his best operas. Excellent recordings all round of many of his finest, all part of standard repertoire.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Great start. In addition to the four operas you mentioned, I might add _Alcina, Rodelinda, Orlando, Agrippina_ in no particular order. Probably enough to get you on another level of appreciation! Have fun.


Can I add Hercules to this list, and Solomon even thought it's an oratorio.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Like a good many classical music lovers I built a collection of the core repertoire... and then... with the passage of time... I began to delve deeper into the music of the Romantic, Post-Romantic and Early Modernist eras. beyond Mozart, Haydn, Gluck, and a few others I had (and still have) little from the "Classical Era". I was always enamored of Bach, and he along with Handel and Vivaldi were among the first composers whose music I purchased on my own. A couple of years ago I began to make a concerted effort to explore the baroque in far greater depth. With that effort, I discovered the Baroque was just as rich and diverse as Romanticism or any other era. Among the Baroque opera composers I have explored are Lully, Rameau, Alessandro Scarlatti, Johann Adolph Hasse, Antonio Vivaldi, Monteverdi, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Henri Purcell, and G.F. Handel. I have also explored any number of recitals of arias by the above composers as well as Nicolo Porpora, Giovanni Battista Alveri, Leonardo Leo, Antonio Caldara, J.C. Bach, Giovanni Battista Bassani, etc...


Right, but what about Baroque opera?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Lukecash12 said:


> Right, but what about Baroque opera?


Am I missing something? Like some in-joke I'm unaware of? Cos this IS Baroque opera:



> Among the Baroque opera composers I have explored are Lully, Rameau, Alessandro Scarlatti, Johann Adolph Hasse, Antonio Vivaldi, Monteverdi, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Henri Purcell, and G.F. Handel. I have also explored any number of recitals of arias by the above composers as well as Nicolo Porpora, Giovanni Battista Alveri, Leonardo Leo, Antonio Caldara, J.C. Bach, Giovanni Battista Bassani, etc...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Of the Handel operas/oratorios/opera-ballets that I own on DVD, I've liked every single one of them, but particularly these highlighted in red (I got another one, Serse, but it is in my unwatched pile):

1. Giulio Cesare
2. Ariodante
3. Rodelinda
4. Alcina
5. Acis and Galatea
6. Admeto
7. Rinaldo
8. Orlando
9. Hercules
10. Tamerlano
11. Theodora
12. Partenope

The numbers refer to order of purchase, not order of preference.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...experienced opera folks and perfomers alike place Handel along with Mozart, Verdi and Wagner as undisupted four masters of opera. Puccini might be included too.
> 
> Don't forget Gluck and Richard Strauss. It is quite possible that Rimsky-Korsakov also ranks among the finest operatic composers.


I absolutely agree with placing Handel with Mozart, Verdi, and Wagner as the top four opera composers.

Unfortunately I only know three operas by Gluck, but all three are terrific:

1. Orfée et Euridice
2. Iphigénie en Tauride
3. Alceste

I would easily rank R. Strauss among the greatest, probably ahead of Puccini.
Another one that I personally rank among the greatest although most people wouldn't agree given his low output is Berlioz (3 operas, one opera/oratorio) - but I think that all 4 are outstanding, so I give him a special place as an opera composer who had no duds, even though he only tried his hand at opera four times.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Some of these selections by less well known Baroque composers suggests there is a real wealth of beautiful music still lurking there. When I first began to collect classical music almost nothing was known of Vivaldi and Handel's operatic output... and very little of what was known was actually available. Now we cannot help but recognize how much greater both composers appear in light of their operatic oeuvre. Take a look:

J.C. Bach- "Cara, la dolce fiamma..." from _Adriano in Siria_:






Antonio Caldara- "Tutto fa nocchiero esparto" from _Ifigenia in Aulide_:






Nicola Porpora- "Alto Giove" from _Polifemo_:






Johann Adolf Hasse- "Perder l'amato bene" from _Cleofide_:






Leonardo Vinci- "Non posso amarti, o Dio" from _La Partenope_:






Baldassare Galuppi- extracts from _L'Olimpiade_:






Galuppi's _Olimpiade_ was beautifully produced in a lavish... yet in some ways Minimalist production that is simply visually stunning.


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

I saw some clips of a production of Monteverdi's Return of Ulysses to his Homeland. It is completely magnificent. other than that, I have failed to get into Baroque.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Another one that I personally rank among the greatest although most people wouldn't agree given his low output is Berlioz (3 operas, one opera/oratorio) - but I think that all 4 are outstanding, so I give him a special place as an opera composer who had no duds, even though he only tried his hand at opera four times.

You'll eventually sell me on Le Troyens, Alma... I've only recently begun taking Berlioz more seriously after discovering his absolutely exquisite song cycle, _Les nuits d'été_.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Another one that I personally rank among the greatest although most people wouldn't agree given his low output is Berlioz (3 operas, one opera/oratorio) - but I think that all 4 are outstanding, so I give him a special place as an opera composer who had no duds, even though he only tried his hand at opera four times.
> 
> You'll eventually sell me on Le Troyens, Alma... I've only recently begun taking Berlioz more seriously after discovering his absolutely exquisite song cycle, _Les nuits d'été_.


It pays to be persistent.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Nicola Porpora is pure ecstasy to me, thanks for bringing him up. Now that was an Italian who could write good opera seria! Apparently he was a great teacher, too.

If Cimarosa's _Il Matrimonio Segreto_ hasn't been mentioned yet, it should be considered:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I would easily rank R. Strauss among the greatest, probably ahead of Puccini.


Yep.



Almaviva said:


> Another one that I personally rank among the greatest although most people wouldn't agree given his low output is Berlioz (3 operas, one opera/oratorio) - but I think that all 4 are outstanding, so I give him a special place as an opera composer who had no duds, even though he only tried his hand at opera four times.


If we're staying off topic to talk about great, low-output, non-Baroque opera composers, let's not forget the guy Karl Böhm (who knew a thing or two about the subject) regarded as the greatest opera composer of all time: Alban Berg.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

...let's not forget the guy Karl Böhm (who knew a thing or two about the subject) regarded as the greatest opera composer of all time: Alban Berg.

Poor Karl... there wasn't much they could do concerning mental illness back then.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

amfortas said:


> . . . let's not forget the guy Karl Böhm (who knew a thing or two about the subject) regarded as the greatest opera composer of all time: Alban Berg.


See? It's not hard.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Alban Berg is terrible. Gluck, Rameau, Handel, Vivaldi, :angel::angel::angel::angel:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, yes, if the only music you'll accept is Gluck, Rameau, Handel, and Vivaldi, then Alban Berg is terrible.

Personally, I think some pretty good music has been written since the 1780s.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

amfortas said:


> Well, yes, if the only music you'll accept is Gluck, Rameau, Handel, and Vivaldi, then Alban Berg is terrible.
> 
> Personally, I think some pretty good music has been written since the 1780s.


Naw, nothing of any significance has happened since the year 1780.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Well certainly there hasn't been much since 1780 that has to do with the subject of this thread: Baroque Opera.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

That's undoubtedly true, as far as new Baroque operas are concerned.

But just try this one, maybe it will be interesting for Baroque Opera aficionados:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Well certainly there hasn't been much since 1780 that has to do with the subject of this thread: Baroque Opera.


_Touché_!


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I don't know if there has been a thread on this topic, but I would love to know what people think about the theatre works of Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully, Monteverdi - all the baroque masters. My favourite is Handel - his operas are simply stunning and I cannot get enough of these. Rameau's "Pygmalion" is an absolute favourite of his and all of Purcell's theatre works are magnificent. What about specific performances of these works too? I'd love to hear about it.


I think I read on Wikipedia that Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully and Monteverdi were not baroque masters, but rather gods! And like good gods, they haven't died but just faded away a little bit. 

Handel is my favorite baroque composer too, though this may be a bit unfair as he was so prolific. I would add Vivaldi, Alessandro Scarlatti, and Gluck to the list for consideration.

In any event, I think the ultimate opera may be Monteverdi's "L'Incoronazione di Poppea". For some reason, I can never get this opera out of my head and in fact I believe if there is only one opera to see in life, this is it. To me, it truly reflects all aspects of humanity - the good, the bad and the ugly.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2011)

MAnna, it is great to see your enthusiasm for Monteverdi. I adore Incoronazione but also love L´Orfeo - a favola in musica. Yes, and Monteverdi´s madrigals are something else too. Gluck terrific, Scarlatti and even the hapless Stradella but I know zip about Vivaldi in terms of theatre works. Tell.


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> MAnna, it is great to see your enthusiasm for Monteverdi. I adore Incoronazione but also love L´Orfeo - a favola in musica. Yes, and Monteverdi´s madrigals are something else too. Gluck terrific, Scarlatti and even the hapless Stradella but I know zip about Vivaldi in terms of theatre works. Tell.


There's been a resurgence in recent years of Vivaldi's opera works championed by Spinosi, Bondi, Curtis and others - Orlando Furioso, Bajazet, L'Olympiade, Griselda and Hercules (including a recent CD release starring Diana Damrau and Philippe Jaroussky that I can't recommend highly enough) to name a few. I believe Hercules and Orlando Furioso are available on DVD.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

MAnna said:


> There's been a resurgence in recent years of Vivaldi's opera works championed by Spinosi, Bondi, Curtis and others - Orlando Furioso, Bajazet, L'Olympiade, Griselda and Hercules (including a recent CD release starring Diana Damrau and Philippe Jaroussky that I can't recommend highly enough) to name a few. I believe Hercules and Orlando Furioso are available on DVD.


Hi there. Good to see another Baroque opera fan here! Yep, I have all those Vivaldi operas you listed above. Very enjoyable. Just to clarify for folks who might not know the names that well, "Hercules" = _Ercole sul Termodonte_ (Hercules in Thermodon). I have this on DVD, which is the infamous version with full frontal male nudity (not good taste IMHO for an opera) but sufficently well played and sung overall.

How is that _Orlando Furioso_ version on DVD? You must be referring to the Marilyn Horne, San Francisco Opera version. Modern instruments?


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## jdavid (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't have a lot, but what I have I really like. I have Handel 'Julius Caesar' (w Beverly Sills, probably will not pass the litmus test, still beautiful, tho), and 'Faramondo' recent recording 4 stars, Marc Antoine Charpentier's 'Medea' w the late Lorraine Hunt (Les Arts Florissants) 5 stars, Vivaldi's 'Ercole sul Termodonte' also recent 5 stars, Monteverdi's 'L'Orfeo' (Harnoncourt) 3.5 stars, and John Eliot Gardiner's 'L'incoronazione di Poppea' 5 stars. The Vivaldi is a new recording (maybe a first recording) with EUROPA GALANTE and Fabio Biondi and is magnificent.

p.s. Handel is a genius, I think we tend to overlook him these days. His emotional content is so high in his slow arias that I am moved to tears, almost, and I don't even know what they're singing about as they are, of course, Italian operas. If you don't have the Sill's Julius Caesar you should get it - it made Sill's career and Maureen Forrester's profoundly beautiful mezzo is worth it - the mezzo duo in Act I, Sc 4 'Dove, Dove, inumani' is something I can play over and over and over.



CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I don't know if there has been a thread on this topic, but I would love to know what people think about the theatre works of Handel, Purcell, Rameau, Lully, Monteverdi - all the baroque masters. My favourite is Handel - his operas are simply stunning and I cannot get enough of these. Rameau's "Pygmalion" is an absolute favourite of his and all of Purcell's theatre works are magnificent. What about specific performances of these works too? I'd love to hear about it.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2011)

Almaviva, Serse is playing here in Vienna at the Theater an der Wien at the moment!! Oh God, more money to spend...!!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2011)

Please watch this devastating performance of 'Priva son d'oni conforto' from Handel's "Guilio Cesare". THIS SINGER IS UNBELIEVABLE. This is my favourite Handelian opera.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

I checked some of the other versions of Cornelia's aria and none of them can equal Abrahamyan. Very expressively sung and acted and such a beautiful voice. Thank you for posting this gem. If the rest of the performance is this good I would love to hear it.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I have a bit of a soft spot for Rameau and Purcell, though I haven't taken the time I'd like to to hear more of their music. I'm thinking particularly of the stunning DVD of Rameau's Indes galantes with Christie and Les Arts Florissants. As far as Purcell goes, my introduction to him was the famous Janet Baker, etc. version of Dido.

Anyway, that's all I feel capable of saying right now. I'll need to hear more of these guys when I get the time.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Purcell - The Fairy queen. I just listened to this yesterday.










Stunning.

Here is the beautiful plaint from the wonderful (and often hilarious) DVD from ROH:


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## Philmwri (Apr 8, 2011)

I love Baroque music. I like it more than I like Bel Canto. Baroque music has more fireworks/vocal acrobatics which is what I like. Baroque music doesn't get as much attention as Bel Canto does which is a shame.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2011)

Mammascarlatti, that is indeed a STUNNING recording of one of my favourite works.


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Purcell - The Fairy queen. I just listened to this yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yes, my favorite opera CD of all time!!! In fact, I haven't bothered to listen to any other recordings of it since I can't or refuse to imagine anything better.

Now, Dido and Aeneas, on the other hand, is a different story. I have 6 recordings of it and am still searching. I am pressed with torment that I just confessed


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

MAnna said:


> Now, Dido and Aeneas, on the other hand, is a different story. I have 6 recordings of it and am still searching. I am pressed with torment that I just confessed


If it's any consolation, I'll remember you, but ah! forget your fate.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2011)

Here's another segment from "Guilio Cesare" with the aforementioned Varhudi Abrahamyan, this time singing with another. It's written somewhere on the link who this other singer is - both of them are very fine. It's a STUNNING PRODUCTION.


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Hi there. Good to see another Baroque opera fan here! Yep, I have all those Vivaldi operas you listed above. Very enjoyable. Just to clarify for folks who might not know the names that well, "Hercules" = _Ercole sul Termodonte_ (Hercules in Thermodon). I have this on DVD, which is the infamous version with full frontal male nudity (not good taste IMHO for an opera) but sufficently well played and sung overall.
> 
> How is that _Orlando Furioso_ version on DVD? You must be referring to the Marilyn Horne, San Francisco Opera version. Modern instruments?


Yes, but sorry to say that I don't recall as I saw it many moons ago. BTW, I forgot to add Curtis' Motezuma (both CD and DVD) to the list.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

MAnna said:


> Yes, but sorry to say that I don't recall as I saw it many moons ago. BTW, I forgot to add Curtis' Motezuma (both CD and DVD) to the list.


I've just watched that. Very interesting, some great music, and a plot where the title male character is rather weak and rudderless, while the interesting character is his wife, sort of Lady Macbeth without the psychopathic dimension. And the love story is secondary. A lot of sympathy shown by Vivaldi to the conquered Aztecs - quite a modern approach.

The only quibble I have with the DVD is that due to the set construction and the way the characters move around the sound is a little variable. I would imagine this would be disturbing on the CD which looks as though it's just an audio recording of the live production.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> A lot of sympathy shown by Vivaldi to the conquered Aztecs - quite a modern approach.


Perhaps there was always a certain amount of that modernity to be found. A while back I saw a production of Dryden's _The Indian Emperor_ (1665), a play, written some seventy years before Vivaldi's opera, that also deals with Montezuma and the Spanish conquest of Mexico. Dryden too took a sympathetic view of the Aztecs, allowing them to express their outrage at the invading Europeans.

I guess so long as you weren't Spanish, it wasn't hard to take the Indians' side.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I guess you haven't heard about Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas, and the first laws for protecting the Indians enacted in the early 16th century, even before the conquest of Mexico.

In any case, I can give you a very long list of spanish plays and novels dealing with North American Indians and the US conquest of the West, that also took a sympathetic view of the natives, allowing them to express their outrage at the invading... Europeans?. 

I guess so long as you weren't an US citizen, it wasn't hard to take the Indian's side.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

schigolch said:


> I guess you haven't heard about Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas, and the first laws for protecting the Indians enacted in the early 16th century, even before the conquest of Mexico.
> 
> In any case, I can give you a very long list of spanish plays and novels dealing with North American Indians and the US conquest of the West, that also took a sympathetic view of the natives, allowing them to express their outrage at the invading... Europeans?.
> 
> I guess so long as you weren't an US citizen, it wasn't hard to take the Indian's side.


I guess my ideas came more from reading British Empire rhetoric, whereby any conquering of natives was seen as civilising them and therefore a Good Thing; and also reading a lot about the proselytising efforts of the catholic church, whereby conquering natives and bringing them into the fold of Mother Church was seen as the only way to save their eternal soul.

Vivaldi's attitude to the latter seems especially interesting in view of the fact he was a priest.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

In fact, you know, it was not necessarily Vivaldi's attitude but rather the librettist's. 

A few months ago, I attended a live performance of another Montezuma opera, Carl Heinrich Graun's, and the librettist was none other than the King of Prussia, Frederick the Great. Though Graun's opera was written some twenty years after Vivaldi's, the general setting was quite similar. It went with the times, to start with, and was also a good stance from a dramatic point of view.

This subject of the 'native' being overwhelmed by the evil conqueror has a long tradition, and we can trace it up to the last Hollywood blockbuster, _Avatar_. Or even to _Die Eroberung von Mexico_, the opera composed by Wolfgang Rihm in the 1990s, based on texts by Antonin Artaud and Octavio Paz.

Among all the Montezuma operas, however, my personal favourite (from a purely musical standpoint) is Roger Session's.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

schigolch said:


> That's undoubtedly true, as far as new Baroque operas are concerned.


Hm... can we count P.D.Q. Bach?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

schigolch said:


> In fact, you know, it was not necessarily Vivaldi's attitude but rather the librettist's.
> 
> A few months ago, I attended a live performance of another Montezuma opera, Carl Heinrich Graun's, and the librettist was none other than the King of Prussia, Frederick the Great. Though Graun's opera was written some twenty years after Vivaldi's, the general setting was quite similar. It went with the times, to start with, and was also a good stance from a dramatic point of view.
> 
> ...


Wow! I'm of about your live experience of Graun's _Montezuma_. Please do tell about the production, performers etc. I have this opera on CD, a rather mediocre recording of it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

This was about one year ago, at Teatro del Canal, in Madrid, a rather small venue used to stage mainly contemporary opera, with the occasional Baroque like _Montezuma_, or more recently the comedy-ballet _Le bourgeois gentilhomme_, by Moliére and Lully, performed by Le Poème Harmonique.

The opera itself is nice, though a little bit too long for my taste. There are some very beautiful arias, though. This is the CD I have:










and I agree it's not a really good recording. The version staged in Madrid had some important cuts included, this same version was later staged in Ciudad de México.

Countertenor Flavio Oliver was Montezuma. While his looks were very much aligned with someone's expectations of an Aztec emperor, his singing was not so well aligned with Graun's score.

Lourdes Ambriz was the soprano cast as Eupaforice, Montezuma's bride. This is the best role in the opera, with some spectacular arias, but difficult to sing. Let's say Ms. Ambriz worked hard for her money that evening.

The worst part of the performance were however the countertenors Adrian George Popescu (Hernán Cortés) and Christophe Carré (Pánfilo de Narváez). Agreed, they were the official bad guys, but they were supposed to sing well, nonetheless.

The rest of the cast was more or less ok, but with voices so small, that in a larger theater it would have been impossible to hear.

The orchestra was very good, the best thing by far. I know quite well the conductor and the concertino, and both are really outstanding in anything Baroque.

Stage director was Claudio Valdés Kuri, a Mexican. It was an avant-garde production, with a funny interchage of mineral water for Coca Cola bottles included. In the last Act, the orchestra and the singers are in modern costume, representing modern México. The last moments, with Eupaforice wrapped in a giant Mexican flag, that slowly falls while Montezuma is executed was really nice. Some poetic licences like Cortés taking advantage of Montezuma's unguarded _derrière_ were condoned in the light of the global concept.

This is perhaps the best aria from the opera, sung by a superb Joan Sutherland:


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you for your notes. I have the same recording too. It suffers from cuts, which is totally unacceptable. But it's the only recording available. Perhaps one day soon, a period instrument band will rectify this with a lavish production too.

As for the production, I'm not so sure of avant-garde coca cola bottles for Baroque opera seria. They sometimes just go too far, thinking these Baroque masterpieces are somehow museum pieces unfit for us "sophisticated modern" folks and need to dress it up for modern tastes. Buffalo excretum. Still, given the chance if I was there, I would have attended this live performance anyway for the sake of the fine music.

Superb clip. Thanks.


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