# Unmasked: Your Classical Collection



## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

I was in town today and picked up a nice set of boxes that stack up and open like a filing cabinet for my classical collection today.

You know you have too many classical CDs when you have to buy a three drawer storage box! 

Anyway, I've been buying so much classical the past few months. I'm not sure how large my classical collection is now, because I seem to be constantly updating my list that I posted last week or so.

I would like to know three things:

1. How large is your collection?

2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?

3. Where do you store your classical music?

I figured this might be an interesting conversation and will leave little room for argument.


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

1) 23.8 days/55.8 GBs.
2)20th/21st century - 10.7 days, then Romantic, then Classical, then popular AND Jazz. I need more Baroque....
3)iTunes FTW.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Yagan Kiely said:


> 1) 23.8 days/55.8 GBs.
> 2)20th/21st century - 10.7 days, then Romantic, then Classical, then popular AND Jazz. I need more Baroque....
> 3)iTunes FTW.


Sorry, but downloading is lame. The ONLY way I would download anything is if it was a CD that is out-of-print and it was the only the way I could hear it. That's it.

Downloading is people who don't know **** about music and who don't value it. How's that for irony? I took your statement you made on another thread and juxtaposed it into this statement.


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## Daniel (Jul 11, 2004)

Stop this!

Now, be very careful, what you write! _Very_ careful! This is an official warning.

The moderation


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## Rachovsky (Jan 5, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> I figured this might be an interesting conversation and will leave little room for argument.


Oh how hilarious. "SORRY, but you are completely and utterly obtuse for doing such a thing. How dare you download music you insolent fool. This is an insult to music and humanity!" ...There is much irony in the fact that you told me a few weeks ago that I should be more tactful, but the more I read your posts the more I see how much you need to take your own advice.

Nonetheless, I will answer your question...
1. 12.8 days (more than half of Yagan's.. )
2. Romantic Period
3. iTunes


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Rachovsky said:


> Oh how hilarious. "SORRY, but you are completely and utterly obtuse for doing such a thing. How dare you download music you insolent fool. This is an insult to music and humanity!" ...There us so much irony in the fact that you told me a few weeks ago that I should be more tactful, but the more I read your posts the more I see how much you need to take your own advice.
> 
> Nonetheless, I will answer your question...
> 1. 12.8 days (more than half of Yagan's.. )
> ...


Do you actually own a CD, Rachovsky? Rachovsky do you actually listen to classical music? Why don't you own more? How long have you been listening to classical?


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

Around 60-70 gigs of classical, mostly romantic and post-romantic stuff. And yes, I download. I don't see the point of owning tons of plastic boxes with discs in them - they take ridiculous amount of space, they're only 700mb (or 74mins) and you gotta change them all the time. It's just so much more easier and comfortable to store it on hard drives - just pick an artist, an album and press play.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

nickgray said:


> Around 60-70 gigs of classical, mostly romantic and post-romantic stuff. And yes, I download. I don't see the point of owning tons of plastic boxes with discs in them - they take ridiculous amount of space, they're only 700mb (or 74mins) and you gotta change them all the time. It's just so much more easier and comfortable to store it on hard drives - just pick an artist, an album and press play.


 This is a funny post. I enjoyed this very humorous statement.  You don't see the point of owning tons of plastic boxes with discs in them? I guess having something to show for your purchases doesn't mean anything to you? If you get your downloads free, then you're a contributing member of piracy. Not only that but you can buy CDs much cheaper than you can downloads and with when you buy the CD you have something to show for your purchases. What do you get when you download something? A screen that says you "own" this music now?  This is too funny.

The truth is, Nickgray, you're obviously not a collector. You obviously don't care about the information that comes in the inside booklet. You obviously don't support your record labels and most importantly you obviously don't show any kind of sentimentality towards the music you enjoy, because if you did, then you would be a collector.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

I own 3000+ cds and most are classical. Main collections composer wise are Mahler,Haydn,Mozart,Beethoven, American composers (Copland,Creston,Diamond,etc)and British composers like Bax,Moeran,Dyson,Elgar.
I house most in a pine rack/shelf system I built myself that's 8' tall and 5' wide.

Jim


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

handlebar said:


> I own 3000+ cds and most are classical. Main collections composer wise are Mahler,Haydn,Mozart,Beethoven, American composers (Copland,Creston,Diamond,etc)and British composers like Bax,Moeran,Dyson,Elgar.
> I house most in a pine rack/shelf system I built myself that's 8' tall and 5' wide.
> 
> Jim


That's excellent Jim! Good to see your a big collector like I am. We are a rare breed these days to come across, but we do exist. 

Also, welcome to this forum.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for the welcome!! I only wish i had discovered this a LONG time ago. I have really missed out.

Jim


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

*1. How large is your collection?*

About 600+ CD's , plus about 20 GB of Downloaded stuff ( *most* of it purchased legally; not everything downloaded off the internet is illegal!)

*2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?*

Mainly Romantic but It might get quickly replace by 20th/contemporary Music once I finish my Shostakovich, Phillip Glass, and John Adams collections. 

*3. Where do you store your classical music?*

On several racks, but I've ripped all my CD's onto my hard drive so I mainly listen to the music off of the computer.

Oh, I hope I haven't said anything to garner a Flame from *Jtech*, PiracyCop!!!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm not a CD collector too. I would love to be. But I can't. First thing is money. Second - availability of classical music in my living place. You can't walk into the shop and say "I want this piano concerto and this symphony performed by blablabla orchestra conducted by blablabla conductor". It's a miracle when you can get anything but stuff like "best of classical", "Mozart's Greatest Hits". When i got the cash and possibility - I purchase original CD. When I don't - I don't. 

Now I got only few original CDs and they are:

Franz Schubert: 5 CDs set 

Paganini: 24 Caprices by Ithzak Perlman

Johannes Brahms: 3 CDs Set

Hector Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique and Romance for violin and orchestra

+ Some various Mozarts


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

> I guess having something to show for your purchases doesn't mean anything to you?


Uh... Nope, not in this case. Even if I did buy cds I would just rip them to my hd and then put them in the closet. Why in the world would I need to look at them?



> then you're a contributing member of piracy


I am  I have no desire to pay, say, ~$100 for Solti's Ring record. Solti's dead, Wagner's dead, so where does the money go? And there are many examples like that one, and not just for classical genre. If the music was reasonably priced and the most of the money would go to the artist instead of the copyright holder - I would have bought them, probably. But no way I'm supporting current system in which labels play the role (mostly) of a copyright holder - they make money just 'cause they "own" the music legally.



> you're obviously not a collector


Yep, I'm a listener  I'm not really interested in building a huge cd and boxset collection with booklets and stuff, to be honest. Some people like that sort of thing. I just don't.



> What do you get when you download something?


Music, sometimes full booklet scans. To defend my "music on hard drive" position... What would you prefer: a single Blu-Ray disc with (for example) DG's Beethoven Edition or ~150cds? I prefer my music to be on big hard drives, rather then taking space in my room.



> you obviously don't show any kind of sentimentality towards the music you enjoy


I do show sentimentality towards music. I just don't like the idea of being sentimental towards plastic boxes, booklets, discs, etc. It's music that really matters for me, not the package.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Does it really matter if your music collection is on CD or on hard drive? It's the MUSIC that matters! 

I'd only say it's lame listening to music from your PC if it's low quality lossy format through some little tinny speakers. The music should be allowed to shine with the help of a quality source and a quality hi-fi.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I have a written catalogue of music that I used to own in the days when I could only get it on cassette (I didn't have a record deck). It covers around 300-400 compositions, mostly from the classical period and later (I'm not that much into Baroque), and mostly orchestral. The best of those I'm now trying to obtain on CD - but to find out which version of any piece to buy on CD I use two methods: (1) reviews from books and sites/forums like this one, (2) sampling via DOWNLOADS! I may keep plenty of downloads even if they don't quite fulfil my criteria for purchase on CD though. They will supplement my CD collection and allow me to listen more easily while I work.


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## Lang (Sep 30, 2008)

jezbo said:


> Does it really matter if your music collection is on CD or on hard drive? It's the MUSIC that matters!


Most of mine is on vinyl. If I were a few years older it would have been on shellac!


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

I still have 78's of many works and some cylinders as well. My gramophone is a Harris portaphone from the early teens. Plays wonderfully!!
Something about hearing Caruso on a gramophone that transports one back to 1903.

Jim


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

Only 3 CDs and a box set for me, the rest is downloaded. I'm pretty new to the whole genre so I only have something like 21 hours of classical music.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Give or take a few hundred one way or the other and if I count a, say, 10 cd box set as 10 cd's it must be something like 4000 cd's I think. I'd say about 55% classical, the rest popular music (rock, soul, pop, blues, etc.) and jazz.

45% baroque and classical
40% romantic
15% modern

40% opera
10% other vocal stuff (oratorios, lieder, etc.)
30% symphonic (including concertos)
10% chamber music
10% solo piano

...something like that.

I'm strictly a cd person, but if others prefer downloading music I'm ok with it. Whatever works for you and keeps you happy.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Lang said:


> Most of mine is on vinyl. If I were a few years older it would have been on shellac!


If I were a few years older it would have been on wax cylinders.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> 45% baroque and classical
> 40% romantic
> 15% modern
> 
> ...


I must say, that is an extremely impressive piece of statistical analysis, Gaston - and with that two-fold division, too.

You can come and organise my collection if you like. I can't _find_ half my CDs most of the time, let alone count 'em.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> I must say, that is an extremely impressive piece of statistical analysis, Gaston - and with that two-fold division, too.


Those percentages are approximate of course.



> You can come and organise my collection if you like. I can't _find_ half my CDs most of the time, let alone count 'em.


I can find each cd in my collection within five seconds.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

nickgray said:


> Uh... Nope, not in this case. Even if I did buy cds I would just rip them to my hd and then put them in the closet. Why in the world would I need to look at them?
> 
> I am  I have no desire to pay, say, ~$100 for Solti's Ring record. Solti's dead, Wagner's dead, so where does the money go? And there are many examples like that one, and not just for classical genre. If the music was reasonably priced and the most of the money would go to the artist instead of the copyright holder - I would have bought them, probably. But no way I'm supporting current system in which labels play the role (mostly) of a copyright holder - they make money just 'cause they "own" the music legally.
> 
> ...


These kinds of arguments are exactly what is wrong with people who download music. They have NOTHING to show for their purchases and they don't realize they're being taken to the cleaners by companies like iTunes. Whatever...it's all really funny to me that someone would buy into the whole downloading thing when they can buy the CD cheaper and have something to show for their purchase.

Oh well, Nickgray, it's your loss, not mine. You have a piece of paper telling you what you "own" while I have the actual CD with all of the original material that comes with it. Information about when it was recorded, photographs of the composer, the conductor, the orchestra, etc. These are things that you maybe not care about, but as a lover of this music, I'm proud to say I do.

Perhaps you are sentimental with the music, but I honestly don't see why you or anyone else wouldn't want to know more about a recording. I guess when you read a book, that is if you read, you buy the book through one of those Kindle things and just read with one of them?

But like I said, you're obviously not a collector and your passion for classical music only runs so deep. In the future, I'll just laugh at your posts.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I can find each cd in my collection within five seconds.


That sounds like CD Heaven.....


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## the_unexpected (Mar 13, 2009)

I would like to know where I can find actual CD's cheaper than digital downloads (total honesty, no sarcasm here). Amazon, for example, routinely sells albums in their mp3 store for a good $5 or more less than it would cost to purchase a hard copy of the same album. I live nowhere near a sprawling metropolis with large music stores at my disposal...I have a rather crappy (by classical standards) music store, with maybe a rack and a half of classical CD's (at rather high prices, to boot). That being said, I vastly prefer to have CD's (for the booklets, mostly - as jtech said, such priceless information). 

As for storage, I don't really do much with the jewel cases besides throw them in a box. I keep the vast majority of my CD's in a portable binder for travel purposes. I'll be the first to admit that I have no life - the vast majority of my time is spent either in front of my computer (all my CD's have been ripped to my hard drive) or driving in my car, and it's quite a boon to be able to travel with just about anything I could want to listen to (even though I'm sadly limited by the size of the binder). 

As for size, I can't really tell, since all my classical music is stored in the same mass folder as all my other music, but just from a count of the folders, it's upwards of 90 gigs. Stylistically, it's all over the place from Bach through to John Rutter, heavy on Beethoven as well as other Romantics (Chopin, Liszt, Mahler, Puccini, Verdi, Wagner).

Hope that rambling post made some sort of sense.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

the_unexpected said:


> I would like to know where I can find actual CD's cheaper than digital downloads (total honesty, no sarcasm here). Amazon, for example, routinely sells albums in their mp3 store for a good $5 or more less than it would cost to purchase a hard copy of the same album. I live nowhere near a sprawling metropolis with large music stores at my disposal...I have a rather crappy (by classical standards) music store, with maybe a rack and a half of classical CD's (at rather high prices, to boot). That being said, I vastly prefer to have CD's (for the booklets, mostly - as jtech said, such priceless information).


Good post, the unexpected, but let answer your question right now with just one out of thousands examples I find everyday.

Let's just for an example take a box set I recently bought, and LOVE, Sir Colin Davis' 6-CD Philips box set of Berlioz: Complete Orchestral Works.

You can buy it as a download, from Amazon right now for $32.51:

http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Compl...f3_2?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1237504393&sr=103-2

Now, check this out. You can buy from a seller on Amazon for $29.98:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...ie=UTF8&qid=1237504393&sr=103-2&condition=new

Now, you will pay for shipping which is $2 more, BUT you will OWN the box set for the almost the same price you can download it for on Amazon and you will have the masters and you can make copies of them as much as you want AND you will have the nice booklet that comes with this set.

And what do you get with a download? NOTHING just the music. No artwork, no information...nothing.

This is where the Internet is absolutely killing retail stores, which are hanging on by a thread as we speak. When you deal with sellers on the Internet, there is no overhead for them to deal with, unless they are a big company.

People ask me where do you get all your CDs from and I say from Amazon. They look at me funny and say you pay Amazon's price? I say no I buy from Amazon sellers, which is the smart thing to do and will save you a lot of money down the road as far as collecting goes.

Unfortunately, you can't walk into a CD store anymore and even find someone like Stravinsky or even Saint-Saens. These stores are cutting way back on their inventory, because the fall of the retail business is happening right before our very eyes. It's sad, but I'll never pay retail price for anything when I know I can get a better deal online. You're throwing your money away at these retail stores I'm afraid.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

1. How large is your collection?
The entire collection is about 800 hours - half of that is classical.

2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?
All of them, but I have slighted the actual classic period somewhat and also the more modern periods. 40% baroque and 40% romantic. with early music, classic, and modern filling up the remainder.

3. Where do you store your classical music?
I have a mixture of CD's (which I too have ripped to hard drive) and also downloads. The CD's are stored unseen in a closet dedicated to them. Umm - as an FYI you often get the insert booklet in pdf format when you download and frankly it is much easier to read than microscopic CD inserts. So all are stored on a hard drive in a computer dedicated to music. They are also backed up on mp3 CD's so I do have something to show for my funds. The computer is my stereo. I may be getting old, but I do live in the 21st century.

Before anyone reprimands me about sound quality I would remind that not everyone lives in quiet ideal surroundings. I am immersed in noise pollution from airplanes, neighborhood pets, those ridiculous sub-woofer trunk rattling morons that drive slowly up and down the street for the express purpose of annoying people, etc. Isolation headphones help, but classical is a little weird in headphones -- unnatural. I am also old enough to have lost some hearing, so my advice to audiophiles is to go listen to everyone coughing at a live concert and leave me to actually enjoy the music in my own way.


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## the_unexpected (Mar 13, 2009)

JTech82 said:


> People ask me where do you get all your CDs from and I say from Amazon. They look at me funny and say you pay Amazon's price? I say no I buy from Amazon sellers, which is the smart thing to do and will save you a lot of money down the road as far as collecting goes.
> .


Excellent suggestion...not sure how I've managed to miss the sellers before...however, even their excellent deals can't solve my current problem...a shortage in the area of funds...  I'll have to keep an eye out for them in the future...thanks for the tip!


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Weston said:


> 3. Where do you store your classical music?
> I have a mixture of CD's (which I too have ripped to hard drive) and also downloads. The CD's are stored unseen in a closet dedicated to them. Umm - as an FYI you often get the insert booklet in pdf format when you download and franky it is much easier to read than microscopic CD inserts. So all are stored on a hard drive in a computer dedicated to music. They are also backed up on mp3 CD's. The computer is my stereo. I may be getting old, but I do live in the 21st century.


I'm well aware you can download .pdf booklets from websites like Chandos, for example, but I still don't call that "real." Yes, you can print the booklet out and if you have a CD design program you can print it on some nice glossy paper, but that's still not quite the same as owning the original.

Everybody enjoys music in their own way. I'm not disputing that and never did, but I just find it amusing that so many classical people here download most of their collections. I thought of all the people you guys would be pretty old school when it comes to technology. There are still many of you who have old LPs of music, which great, but the CD was the best thing that ever happened to music, especially classical and jazz. The CD is still the best sounding, most versatile medium available on the market.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I have nowhere near the amount of CD's that some of us have. I'd say about 150-200 or so, but then again I've only been collecting for about 2-3 years on a quite limited budget, so I think I'm doing pretty well.

I have mostly Late Romantic: A lot of Mahler, a LOT of Sibelius. Least: Classical. And I own exactly two CD's of Mozart. 

I keep it all on the shelves built into the wall in my room. A bunch of stuff goes in my room... but the CD's have their own space. They is special!


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

World Violist said:


> I have nowhere near the amount of CD's that some of us have. I'd say about 150-200 or so, but then again I've only been collecting for about 2-3 years on a quite limited budget, so I think I'm doing pretty well.
> 
> I have mostly Late Romantic: A lot of Mahler, a LOT of Sibelius. Least: Classical. And I own exactly two CD's of Mozart.
> 
> I keep it all on the shelves built into the wall in my room. A bunch of stuff goes in my room... but the CD's have their own space. They is special!


I'm not sure how many classical recordings I own now, I have a ton of box sets. If I had to guess I probably own around 500 recordings? I'm not sure I'll have to get back to you guys on this one. 

I've only been seriously collecting classical music for a couple of months now. Almost 95% of my collection is from the Romantic period and the other is from the Classical and 20th Century.

Right now, I'm storing them in a three drawer storage unit and each of these drawers are deep, long, and wide.

By the way, World Violinist, I received the Rubbra/Hickox box set today and I haven't listened to it yet, but I'm really looking forward to sinking my teeth into this one.


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

JTech82 said:


> Downloading is people who don't know **** about music and who don't value it.


That is as false as it is ridiculous. Not only I download a lot, but I also know a lot. I have already mentioned in other threads the collection of music I have (as well as the repertoire I am acquainted with) is indeed larger than yours; and I say this based on the items you listed in the "this is my collection" thread. I love music, I hold it in the greatest of steem. I educated myself on the subject and even though it has nothing to do with my professional development and aspirations (i.e: what I would call "my job") I never cease investigating.

You measure your collection in CD's, and you have about 500 of them. My collection is five to six times that, and I don't just OWN the items: I listen to them, I like them and I understand them. This idea alone proves false the statement I quote from you at the beginning of this post. So I won't debate on it anymore: I download a lot and I know more than you. That's it.

What's next?

Showing the cd's? To whom? Your friends, people that go to your house? You will eventually realize this is not necessary. In the meantime, we should all remember you recently posted something like "I realized I am THE guy when it comes to Ravel"...



> Information about when it was recorded, photographs of the composer, the conductor, the orchestra, etc. These are things that you maybe not care about, but as a lover of this music, I'm proud to say I do.


Not only all that information is usually available on the web, but also... active resource restrictions will make the information available on the booklets quite limited. If you are really interested in... the acoustic recordings of Hausegger... you will most likely resort to Google or your specialist friends to have some light shed on the subject. If you are interested in... the neoclassical turn of Vincent D'Indy, you can look for many profound essays on the subject, information that exceed the limits of a cd booklet.


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

> someone would buy into the whole downloading thing when they can buy the CD cheaper and have something to show for their purchase.


Uh... Yeah, I don't... really buy anything. I wouldn't pay for any kind of download unless it's some special circumstances. I also can't say that I care about "showing" that I actually "own" stuff. It's ridiculous. Music on hard drives is very real and it is a hard copy. Only on a much more convenient medium, in my opinion - instead of having all those boxes with discs you got one (or several) little rectangle-shaped thing(s) that got all your music. I use my 160gb iPod instead of old sony cd player for the same reason - it's more convenient, more easier, more music... etc.



> Information about when it was recorded, photographs of the composer, the conductor, the orchestra, etc.


Well, for information there's google and wikipedia. I can even grab a score sometimes, if I'm curious how to play a couple of phrases. And most stuff I download have full scans of booklets.



> But like I said, you're obviously not a collector


Yep. I'm not. I prefer to listen, not to collect.



> I guess when you read a book, that is if you read, you buy the book through one of those Kindle things and just read with one of them?


Not yet, but actually yeah. I like the idea of e-books - when somebody would release a flexible A4 e-paper I'm certainly gonna buy one. Why? First of all it's more convenient than "regular" book - you got all your books in one relatively small device (and copies of them on hard drive), second - you don't really believe that paper books would be used in the future? There are almost 7 billion people on our planet and the number continues to grow. The resources aren't gonna be here forever - sooner or later we're gonna come to the point where we just can't chop down trees anymore. So e-books are definitely doing something good for our environment.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> You measure your collection in CD's, and you have about 500 of them. My collection is five to six times that, and I don't just OWN the items: I listen to them, I like them and I understand them. This idea alone proves false the statement I quote from you at the beginning of this post. So I won't debate on it anymore: I download a lot and I know more than you. That's it.


You know more than I do? Hmmm....interesting considering you've done nothing, but try and prove a go nowhere point, which these kinds of statements that you made reveal your insecurity and inability to deal with the sad reality that you're WRONG..  How does it feel to be WRONG.


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> I guess having something to show for your purchases doesn't mean anything to you?


Yes well, even though I prefer to have the CD (little memento), you should be more interested in what is on the CD.



> If you get your downloads free, then you're a contributing member of piracy.


Piracy only damages artists if you actually sell the piracy, sites such as PirateBay do not hurt the artists.



> Not only that but you can buy CDs much cheaper than you can downloads


No you can't.



> A screen that says you "own" this music now? This is too funny.


What's funny about someone who prefers the what's on the CD to the plastic of the CD?


> You obviously don't care about the information that comes in the inside booklet.


FYI, most pirates come with the booklet. And a lot of that information can be found on the internet... (even Wikipedia).



> You obviously don't support your record labels and most importantly you


Why should he support a giant, multinational corporation that just rips of the Artists that you are listening to and making the corporation rich? These are the same greedy corporations that are contributing the the economy depression.



> obviously don't show any kind of sentimentality towards the music you enjoy, because if you did, then you would be a collector.


He has 'collected' 70gbs of MUSIC, rather than 20kgs of plastic. I can't stand being called a collector. I don't collect music. I listen to music that I like or are learning....



> PiracyCop!


Indeed, he should join the prosecution of PirateBay, they seem to not understand the method or repercussions of piracy.

I've started legally backing up my dad's vinyl collection to my computer. (It's amazing, just from the record player's out to my MacBook Pro's mic, record it in Logic.... the computers Analogue to digital converter is so good! I was so surprised. Sounds as good as the LP.



> These kinds of arguments are exactly what is wrong with people who download music. They have NOTHING to show for their purchases


They have the music. Or is the actualy reason we have music at all at fault now?



> Oh well, Nickgray, it's your loss, not mine. You have a piece of paper telling you what you "own" while I have the actual CD with all of the original material that comes with it. Information about when it was recorded, photographs of the composer, the conductor, the orchestra, etc. These are things that you maybe not care about, but as a lover of this music, I'm proud to say I do.


Almost all of that can easily be found online...



> Perhaps you are sentimental with the music, but I honestly don't see why you or anyone else wouldn't want to know more about a recording. I guess when you read a book, that is if you read, you buy the book through one of those Kindle things and just read with one of them?


Why would anyone want to know about the recording?? The piece or the performer maybe.

The main difference between you and me, is I care about the content. The art is what's on the CD, what's in the book. Not what's on it's cover. Brings up an old saying... I wonder what that could be.



> But like I said, you're obviously not a collector and your passion for classical music only runs so deep. In the future, I'll just laugh at your posts.


Collector/listener. Collectors only enjoy the superficial aspects of there collection they do not appreciate what they are collecting. I'd find it as an insult for you to call me a collector. And also, why are you trying to be such an **** all the time? You are as bad a Herzeliede in 75% of your posts.



> You can buy it as a download, from Amazon right now for $32.51:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Comple...04393&sr=103-2
> 
> ...


US$8 dollars more, and I have to wait 6 weeks for it to arrive.



> NOTHING just the music


And who care about that.



> I'm well aware you can download .pdf booklets from websites like Chandos, for example, but I still don't call that "real." Yes, you can print the booklet out and if you have a CD design program you can print it on some nice glossy paper, but that's still not quite the same as owning the original.


Why would that matter if you listen to the music on non-archaic machines? See you are preoccupied, not with the content but with how it is displayed. You are the person who is not appreciating the music. We only care about the music, you care about how pretty it is.



> You know more than I do? Hmmm....interesting considering you've done nothing, but try and prove a go nowhere point, which these kinds of statements that you made reveal your insecurity and inability to deal with the sad reality that you're WRONG.. How does it feel to be WRONG.


I read that three times and I still can't understand. I *think* you are trying to say that he is wrong because he is wrong. Profound statement to be sure.

Basically:
I don't collect superficial bits of plastic, I listen to music. I don't read the booklets on the CDs I buy, because better or equal information is online (in a much more accessible format). You have a brainwashed view of piracy, and you judge people on how many book covers they own.

If you want to look at the equivalent of piracy look at these websites:
http://magnatune.com/
http://www.beepbeep.nl/
http://amiestreet.com/
http://www.onclassical.com/

And it's amazing how a free album tops 'the charts':
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2...s-albums-top-2008-amazon-mp3-sales-charts.ars


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

That last post was so long i wondered if it would end LOL

Jim


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

Well I went to bed and found all this muck on the forum.

I have no problem with people preferring CDs. I do too (I like the memento). But to ridicule those who are after the music and boast about how much plastic you own is just superficial at best.


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

1: About 1400+ CDs. I do have an Ipod with about half of my cd's on it, but I never listen to it. I just like the quality and depth that cd's offer.
2: Mainly Romantic, but I have a very large variety.
3: I keep all the CD's in huge cd wallets, and all the cd cases in paper boxes in my storage unit. (I live in an apartment, so that's a lot of space. )


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Edmond-Dantes said:


> 1: About 1400+ CDs. I do have an Ipod with about half of my cd's on it, but I never listen to it. I just like the quality and depth that cd's offer.
> 2: Mainly Romantic, but I have a very large variety.
> 3: I keep all the CD's in huge cd wallets, and all the cd cases in paper boxes in my storage unit. (I live in an apartment, so that's a lot of space. )


Ah, another hardcore collector like me. Welcome aboard.


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Well, sheez, *Jtech* at first I thought you where just upset with online Piracy. But after reading all the posts on this thread you seem to oppose downloading in general.

You do realize that the CD is just carrying the *exact same* data that one might download off the internet. 
Sure you don't have any of the booklets or whatever other miscellanea that came with it. 
But if wanted to learn more about that piece there is a wealth of information on the internet, books, essays, etc.

And since when does *collector = music fan/cognoscenti?*


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Folks ... as a general reminder, and not directed at anyone in particular, Please read this 2007 post by Frederik Magle concerning the posting rules.

The conversation here has become rather crude ... ad homs will not be tolerated.


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

JTech82 said:


> Ah, another hardcore collector like me. Welcome aboard.


By _hardcore _you mean plastic, right? Plastic collectors?


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

JTech82 said:


> You know more than I do?


Indeed. Should I remind you that you posted a list of your collection? A 500 item one, which is quite narrow. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge for a beginner like you it does look like a good collection, but a narrow one. The work of a newbie. You absolutely ignore a truly fantastic period, as is the Baroque, and your list shows no traces of Bach, Haendel, Telemann, Corelli or Biber. And there's not a single opera there!


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## Yagan Kiely (Feb 6, 2008)

> Baroque, and your list shows no traces of Bach, Haendel, Telemann, Corelli or Biber. And there's not a single opera there!


Haven't you heard? It's a fact that Baroque music is ****.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Person A collects his music in one way. Person B collects his music in another.

Can someone please explain to me why these trivial differences matter _so much_ that they can be used as an excuse for the mixture of intolerant, ill-mannered, bad-tempered, ignorant, insulting, and downright hostile posts in this thread?

And also, why they should be so important that they look well set to continue even after the polite intervention of a moderator?


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I've been listening to classical music for 30+ years, even played in an orchestra in the past, I read about it and listen to it daily - yet I'd never claim to KNOW more than anyone else because I own so many CDs (or downloads) - it doesn't matter! I still feel like a beginner - still learning and discovering all the time.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Elgarian said:


> Person A collects his music in one way. Person B collects his music in another.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me why these trivial differences matter _so much_ that they can be used as an excuse for the mixture of intolerant, ill-mannered, bad-tempered, ignorant, insulting, and downright hostile posts in this thread?
> 
> And also, why they should be so important that they look well set to continue even after the polite intervention of a moderator?


Yes!! Thanks for saying that. I was going to echo the same.

Jim


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

jezbo said:


> I've been listening to classical music for 30+ years, even played in an orchestra in the past, I read about it and listen to it daily - yet I'd never claim to KNOW more than anyone else because I own so many CDs (or downloads) - it doesn't matter! I still feel like a beginner - still learning and discovering all the time.


Well put. I feel that way too. So much art - so little time.


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

jezbo said:


> I've been listening to classical music for 30+ years, even played in an orchestra in the past, I read about it and listen to it daily - yet I'd never claim to KNOW more than anyone else because I own so many CDs (or downloads) - it doesn't matter! I still feel like a beginner - still learning and discovering all the time.


I agree, wholeheartedly. But if I come up with some on-line ghost who, on a basis of a 500 item collection, acknowledges himself a Ravel specialist and something like a classical music God, for his own sake I will intervene. I am neither fighting nor showing off, but I regard mine is a therapeutic intervention. An idea should be pointed out to such people, and it's that their knowledge is not VAST and GRAND, but it quite narrow.
Hundreds of years turned out to produce a universe of composers and performers, and thinking of yourself as the greatest and more knowledgeable classical music fan just by showing off a collection of 500 volumes is quite ludicrous. It's laughable.



> Haven't you heard? It's a fact that Baroque music is ****.


I know now. So I should stop the rare 1938 recording of Tannhauser my Winamp is currently playing.
I realize now his list doesn't include chamber music either: no sonatas, no string quartets or quintets, just one requiem... That list is far from complete, and skips many, many great and interesting items.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> Person A collects his music in one way. Person B collects his music in another.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me why these trivial differences matter _so much_ that they can be used as an excuse for the mixture of intolerant, ill-mannered, bad-tempered, ignorant, insulting, and downright hostile posts in this thread?


It's disgusting. I bet that most members on a gangsta rap forum have better manners (and definitely less inflated egos) than some posters do here.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> It's disgusting. I bet that most members on a gangsta rap forum have better manners (and definitely less inflated egos) than some posters do here.


Thanks for saying that. I might be new here but still try to be a gentleman.

Please fellows: Have some common courtesy and manners. There are ladies and children that might be reading.

Jim


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

handlebar said:


> Thanks for saying that. I might be new here but still try to be a gentleman.
> 
> Please fellows: Have some common courtesy and manners. There are ladies and children that might be reading.


... and other gentlemen!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

To answer you, JTech:

*1. How large is your collection?*

About 100 classical cds (50 jazz), about 20-30 various genre LPs and 10 tapes.

I am a dinosoar - don't own a computer or an ipod. I hope they still keep producing cd's and cd players for us luddites. Hope they don't go the way of LPs in the face of all this digital technology!

*2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?*

The bulk of my collection is late romantic and C20th. Mostly orchestral, not much chamber (although quite a few works for string orchestra).

Don't have much Baroque or Classical - about 1 Bach CD, 1 Mozart, a few Beethoven.

Have multiple works (2 or more Cds) of Prokofiev, Walton, Shostakovich, Bartok, Britten, Debussy, Ravel (2 lps), Janacek, Bax, Brahms, Berlioz, Mendelssohn.

(& Single works or cds/couplings of things like Bruckner, Mahler, Stravinsky, Berg, Liszt, Kodaly, Schonberg, Schubert, Schumann, Hindemith, Bloch, Holst, Tippett, Rubbra, Huang Ruo, Alla Pavlova, Tchaikovsky, Myaskovsky, Grieg, Rachmaninov, Gounod, Delibes, de Falla, Massenet, Mussorgsky, Borodin, Khatchaturian, Rodrigo, Villa Lobos, Messiean, etc.)

I'm not into boxed sets. Listening to too many different works by the same composer becomes a bit repetitive for me. I'd rather be a generalist than specific.

*3. Where do you store your classical music?*

At the moment, the ones I bought many years ago are on the mantlepiece, the others in a plastic basket beside my cd player (the recent acquisitions) and some will inevitably end up on a new bookshelf that I have recently acquired.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

By the way, I still have a relatively good knowledge of music other than what I own as I regularly listen to classical radio stations here in Sydney which expose me to the wider repertoire. So I am aware of stuff other than what I own...


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## YsayeOp.27#6 (Dec 7, 2007)

Andre said:


> I'm not into boxed sets. Listening to too many different works by the same composer becomes a bit repetitive for me.


In my opinion, that applies only to Vivaldi: after listening to the 10th violin concerto, you may come to think there's no need to go on and reach the 300th. But think of Brahms', for example; what you hear (or play) in the Scherzo Op.4 has no real link with what you hear in any of the later Intermezzi. Or compare his two piano concertos.
In Schönberg's case, the structure and technique behind Transfigured night doesn't immediately relate to that of the violin concerto.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> In my opinion, that applies only to Vivaldi: after listening to the 10th violin concerto, you may come to think there's no need to go on and reach the 300th. But think of Brahms', for example; what you hear (or play) in the Scherzo Op.4 has no real link with what you hear in any of the later Intermezzi. Or compare his two piano concertos.
> In Schönberg's case, the structure and technique behind Transfigured night doesn't immediately relate to that of the violin concerto.


I agree that there is richness and variety in some composer's works which would merit acquiring boxed sets. I suppose if I was willing to spend more money I might get into them but it depends how big the box is. I mean, I have seen boxed sets of the complete Haydn symphonies & string quartets, but also a mammoth one of Beethoven's complete works. These are far too big for me. I don't want to listen to everything the man composed. But I could be flexible to maybe getting a boxed set of say Beethoven's piano concertos or symphonies.

However, I also like to listen to a variety of performers of the same composers music, and prefer to buy works like the Beethoven symphonies separately. It's interesting to hear the different interpretations & recordings from different eras. This is why I like listening to classical music stations. & there, they play popular pieces like the Beethoven symphonies many times. So this is why I haven't bothered acquiring them all, the only ones I have are my favourite (_Eroica_), No. 8 on the same CD and also the indispensable _Choral_. The others I am content to hear on radio when they are played. I especially like live broadcasts of concerts from either here in Australia or abroad, but studio recordings are great too.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Not long ago, I made a "shelf adjustment" on my CD collection. Here in my modestly-sized den, I have a pair of built-in shelf sets- and recordings pretty much take up one of the two sets. My alteration consisted primarily of "triple-stacking" more of my rock and pop music. The classical discs are "double-stacked," for easier access.

Current CLASSICAL disc count stands at 383. Of that number, nearly half of the total is accounted for by 5 composers:

*Wagner*: 23.2%
*Mahler*: 8.6%
*Bruckner*: 7.6%
*Beethoven*: 7%
*Shostakovich*: 3.3%

In the next tier
*Mozart*/*Tchaikovsky*/*Dvořák*/*Verdi*: @2.6% each, round out the composers with double-digit disc-counts.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Andre said:


> So this is why I haven't bothered acquiring them all, the only ones I have are my favourite (_Eroica_), No. 8 on the same CD. . .


That No 8 seems to crop up on all my Beethoven symphony CD's. I guess it's shorter and just fits better, but I won't ever need any more versions of it!

I'm with you on the boxed sets. I don't think one lifetime is long enough to decide which interpreter/performer warrants spending that much funds on an entire body of work. I do think I would like complete cycles though. If I'm using the term correctly, that's a little different from a boxed set. I'd like the Andras Schiff cycle of Beethoven piano sonatas for example, because my collection is sort of all over the map - everyone from Jeno Jando to Alfred Brendel.

I'd be interested in hearing others views on how they settle on one performer over another, or if one should even do that, and how it effects ones understanding of a body of work, but that would be another thread.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Not long ago, I made a "shelf adjustment" on my CD collection. Here in my modestly-sized den, I have a pair of built-in shelf sets- and recordings pretty much take up one of the two sets. My alteration consisted primarily of "triple-stacking" more of my rock and pop music. The classical discs are "double-stacked," for easier access.


This problem of storage has become acute. It's not so much the quantity of CDs _per se_, but the quantity of _books_ (and pictures to some degree): I'm running out of rooms and walls. I've never really faced up to the CD problem, so they've spilled out everywhere - a huge conglomeration on two big shelves, double- and even triple-stacked near the hifi system; there's a big cupboard-full of opera sets in the dining room, another cupboard for rock/pop and Bob Dylan bootlegs, a couple of racks upstairs in the spare bedroom, and then what I might describe as 'current listening' (mostly Baroque at present) piled up on the dining room table. I've no idea how to solve the storage crisis and I admit I have my head in the sand about it; I can see that dumping the CDs and resorting to digital storage would fix it, but I really, really don't want to go down that road.

I don't know how many there are - there must be about 100 CDs of Elgar alone I think; plus the Barbirolli, Boult, Davis, and Slatkin boxed sets. That's the biggest single section devoted to any one composer, by some distance (unless we count the Dylan bootlegs). In general though, the collection is very patchy - with many big names hardly represented at all, and other lesser figures represented in more depth than might be expected (Parry for instance) just because I love them. I've never attempted to be 'balanced' in my listening - I just follow my nose.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Glad to see this thread has become more civil--now I feel better about posting in it.

I'm truly just starting my collection of classical music; I bought my first album about 6 months ago (Vivaldi's Four Seasons) and have gradually expanded since then to about 40. Though no conscious effort was made to approach things chronologically, I seem to have more Baroque and Classical than later music.

The vast majority of my purchases have been through Amazon's download service, which I've found to be excellent. I do have a few CDs, and I like that they come with informative booklets. However, a typical scenario might go like this:


Visit talkclassical, browse various posts
Follow a youtube link from the opera DVD thread
It reminds me of a piece I heard an aria from that I really liked
Irresistible urge arises to own said piece and listen to it through
When the choice is between having it instantly, or paying for shipping and having to wait a few days, I succumb to the former

I keep copies on several computers and on my mp3 player. When I get a CD, I burn it right away, then keep it in the car in case I feel like listening to music in a suboptimal environment.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> *Wagner*: 23.2%
> *Mahler*: 8.6%
> *Bruckner*: 7.6%
> *Beethoven*: 7%
> *Shostakovich*: 3.3%


I love those decimal points, CTP! (The scientist in me wants to correct the Beethoven count to 7.0%, though, so as to demonstrate consistency of precision.)


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## jamzky (Jan 29, 2009)

I got rid of A LOT over the years cos I travelled a lot and couldn't hold on to everything  All together I must have owned a thousand CDs whereas at this moment I only have about 200 - but they are a damn good 200  I am collecting again these days. I like that. I download simply cos where I live there is no good record store nearby. I am buying music of my favourites at the moment. This creates a bit of an imbalance but tells a good amount too about my tastes

1. Sibelius
2. Stravinsky
3. Beethoven

I am stuck in Ludwig van and then perhaps it will be Prokofiev. In a year or so I will hopefully have most of the music I have always wanted good recordings off. One has to watch ones finances. 

J


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> I love those decimal points, CTP! (The scientist in me wants to correct the Beethoven count to 7.0%, though, so as to demonstrate consistency of precision.)


The Beethoven fan in me wants to correct it to 50.0%


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## FlyMe (Oct 7, 2008)

I have gone past the point of counting! I would estimate I have between 4-5000 CD's with about 85% classed as classical. I keep thinking I should stop buying but then I discover something new and away I go!

A few years ago when I had my study built I got a friend to design and build purpose built shelving for the CDs which I keep in composer order. At the time I thought I had gone mad ordering so many shelves, but they are now nearly full!

I have a large amount of opera but the collection covers everything from early music to 21st C new compostions.

Not very keen on downloads, I like to be able to read the booklet and my Naim Hi Fi is not set up for playing downloads (listening on a PC would not really compare).


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## jamzky (Jan 29, 2009)

Hi Flyme, 

I want a study like that. It is a future goal.  A place to sit with music all around. It is annoying not having the original sleeve with downloads. I also don't like listening using a PC so I will invest in some kind of good amp and speaker system to interact with an ipod docker. I am sure though that technology will open more doors in the coming years.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jamzky said:


> I am sure though that technology will open more doors in the coming years.


That's it! That's the answer! Make the _doors_ with CD-racks built-in, as part of the design! Just think - all that potentially useful blank door-space, going to waste ....


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

jamzky said:


> I also don't like listening using a PC so I will invest in some kind of good amp and speaker system to interact with an ipod docker. I am sure though that technology will open more doors in the coming years.


If you're concerned about sound quality - it's best to buy either a semi-pro sound card (like esi, e-mu or m-audio) or external dac. I really suggest that you google all that stuff first, because a computer being a "bad audio source" is a myth from early '90s, just like mp3s are still considered bad by some because of the late 90s-early 2000, but "xing 128" days are long gone now.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

FlyMe said:


> I have gone past the point of counting! I would estimate I have between 4-5000 CD's with about 85% classed as classical. I keep thinking I should stop buying but then I discover something new and away I go!


Wow - you can still buy houses in the UK with the kind of money you've spent on CDs!


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

nickgray said:


> If you're concerned about sound quality - it's best to buy either a semi-pro sound card (like esi, e-mu or m-audio) or external dac. I really suggest that you google all that stuff first, because a computer being a "bad audio source" is a myth from early '90s, just like mp3s are still considered bad by some because of the late 90s-early 2000, but "xing 128" days are long gone now.


I use a wireless SqueezeBox device attached to my hi-fi, plus a dedicated Heed headphone amp with a good pair of cans - I get excellent quality on .flac and .ape files, and even mp3s at 256k/s and above are damned good. I do collect CDs for the best stuff too.


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## FlyMe (Oct 7, 2008)

Well it has taken me nearly 28 years to build the collection. Longer than most mortgages!


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

-_-;; Wow, things really are a bit hostile in here. I guess that I've posted my collection and call this thread quits.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Yes they are. I thought cooler heads had prevailed but it seems like the kids are still chatting!

Jim


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I think the main protagonists have been banned.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

jezbo said:


> I think the main protagonists have been banned.


Delightful!!!!

As a moderator at The Fountain Pen Network i know what one has to do sometimes is not always enjoyable but necessary.

Jim


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

It has been about two-dozen posts since the last violative one, so I think we're in the clear, now. In sports/General Manager parlance, I think we're the beneficiaries of the application of that paradoxical-sounding phrase "addition by subtraction."

Not long ago, on another board (it's really a forum "backwater," very few people contribute there), I once someone sneer at another poster for having "only" a 300-disc collection! In a couple of other places, I've seen it go the other way, too, where folks with 5-digit count collections were accused of spending money selfishly and were further dismissed as 'no-lifers.'

I think it's in keeping with the spirit of this board to say that, if you're listening to 'you-tube' classical excerpts and are contemplating your very first recording purchase, you're welcome here! Likewise, if you have a collection that strains the ability of one room to contain it all, and you seek to share your enthusiam for the 'best-of-the-best' among your discoveries, you're welcome here, too!!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I think it's in keeping with the spirit of this board to say that, if you're listening to 'you-tube' classical excerpts and are contemplating your very first recording purchase, you're welcome here! Likewise, if you have a collection that strains the ability of one room to contain it all, and you seek to share your enthusiam for the 'best-of-the-best' among your discoveries, you're welcome here, too!!


I agree wholeheartedly. What we have in common on this website is that we all love classical music, in its different styles, genres and forms. Sharing the contents of ones collection should not be a situation of one-upmanship. It just informs people of what your preferences, tastes and interests are. After all, the repertoire is so vast and so much is available out there today that no individual can cover it all, even in a lifetime.

About downloads, I think inevitably they are going to be the way of the future. Even I see this, although I don't own an ipod or a computer (I am relatively highly computer literate otherwise, though). Many classical CD labels have facilities on their websites where you can download what you like from their catalogue for a fee. Naxos and Chandos are two labels that I know that do this. The question is, will CD's follow LP's and be ultimately ditched by the record companies, as CD sales decline and downloads rise? As a semi-dinosaur/luddite, I hope not, but it may be inevitable. Maybe CD players will also become a thing of the past, like turntables. Who knows what the future holds? & those who prefer downloads to CDs might just be going the way the wind is blowing at the moment, so its unwise to criticise or exclude them from contributing to this discussion...


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## agoukass (Dec 1, 2008)

1. I have approximately 750 CDs in my collection.

2. The main composers represented (in terms of CD quantity) are Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, and Brahms. I cover most of the periods except Early Music (pre-Bach). 

3. I store my collection in a large cupboard designed especially for CDs.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

I remember reading an article somewhere, in which the author looked at his book collection, did a quick count followed by an appropriate rough calculation, and then realised that he didn't have sufficent time remaining in his life to read, once more, every book in his library.

I wonder where the Grim Reaper fits into to our music collecting? I suppose it's a lot less depressing, because it takes so much less time to listen to a CD than to read a book.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I once someone sneer at another poster for having "only" a 300-disc collection!


Made a mistake here... it should have read "I once _saw_ someone sneer..." (too late to edit...)

I worked out the math elsewhere. Someone who has a (low-end) 5-digit CD collection would, if listening to 4 different discs a day, would take roughly ten years to cycle through the collection without repeats. But (having said that) some of the most interesting reading I've done on message boards has been the posts of inveterate collectors willing to share their observations.

Of course, there's also been plenty of interesting reading from people relaying their initial impressions concerning the early days of their classical journey.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Andre said:


> About downloads, I think inevitably they are going to be the way of the future. Even I see this, although I don't own an ipod or a computer (I am relatively highly computer literate otherwise, though). Many classical CD labels have facilities on their websites where you can download what you like from their catalogue for a fee. Naxos and Chandos are two labels that I know that do this. The question is, will CD's follow LP's and be ultimately ditched by the record companies, as CD sales decline and downloads rise? As a semi-dinosaur/luddite, I hope not, but it may be inevitable. Maybe CD players will also become a thing of the past, like turntables. Who knows what the future holds? & those who prefer downloads to CDs might just be going the way the wind is blowing at the moment, so its unwise to criticise or exclude them from contributing to this discussion...


As long as we don't have to compromise on sound quality, I don't really care. Chandos for example, make theirs available in lossless formats, which is great, but I think Naxos pipes its downloads through classicsonline.com, which only seems to offer 320kbps - not good enough for the discerning listener who wants to play it through a decent hi-fidelity audio system. I know I'd never buy the latter!


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I've some 1700 CD, but it's a very special collection. About 50 symphonics,200 solo piano, and all the rest are chamber instrumental works, and for violin, viola or cello and orchestra. 90% 19th.century.


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

jezbo said:


> As long as we don't have to compromise on sound quality, I don't really care. Chandos for example, make theirs available in lossless formats, which is great, but I think Naxos pipes its downloads through classicsonline.com, which only seems to offer 320kbps - not good enough for the discerning listener who wants to play it through a decent hi-fidelity audio system. I know I'd never buy the latter!


Ah, I agree with you completely. I'm a seriouse audiophile and have a custom made vacuum tube system. You really can here the loss of quality between the ipod and cds. Also, I like to be able to do whatever I want with the music I purchase. For instance, apple can do whatever they want with the music you buy from them. SO, if they decide that CD's are a thing of the past, they can make all the music you've bought limited to your ipod and computer. (Also, I'm a Linux OS users, so itunes is out of the question for me)


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I worked out the math elsewhere. Someone who has a (low-end) 5-digit CD collection would, if listening to 4 different discs a day, would take roughly ten years to cycle through the collection without repeats.


That's a workmanlike figure. 4 CDs a day (though more like 2 or 3 for me I think), 365 days in a year -> roughly 1500 CDs per year. So for anyone with a CD collection under 1500 it's perhaps a fair gamble that they could expect to be able to play them all in the time remaining, should they decide, and barring accidents ....


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

Wow, that really is quite the remarkable figure. =D


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

That's assuming you don't repeat any CD. Though I like listening to music that's unfamiliar to me and making some discoveries, I get MOST pleasure from listening to the pieces I know intimately - not just different interpretations of those pieces, but the ONE interpretaton that works best for me - and I usually repeat those every week or two.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Edmond-Dantes said:


> Ah, I agree with you completely. I'm a seriouse audiophile and have a custom made vacuum tube system. You really can here the loss of quality between the ipod and cds. Also, I like to be able to do whatever I want with the music I purchase. For instance, apple can do whatever they want with the music you buy from them. SO, if they decide that CD's are a thing of the past, they can make all the music you've bought limited to your ipod and computer. (Also, I'm a Linux OS users, so itunes is out of the question for me)


I only have what hi-fi enthusiasts would call a "budget" system - all Best Buy stuff though - but still I can hear the difference between lossless formats and bog-standard mp3s when piped through my SqueezeBox (which has an on-board 24-bit Burr-Brown DAC) - this distinction seems to stand out much more with classical than other genres. I want to know any music files that I store won't be wasted when I upgrade to better kit when I can afford it.


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## the_unexpected (Mar 13, 2009)

Edmond-Dantes said:


> Ah, I agree with you completely. I'm a seriouse audiophile and have a custom made vacuum tube system. You really can here the loss of quality between the ipod and cds. Also, I like to be able to do whatever I want with the music I purchase. For instance, apple can do whatever they want with the music you buy from them. SO, if they decide that CD's are a thing of the past, they can make all the music you've bought limited to your ipod and computer. (Also, I'm a Linux OS users, so itunes is out of the question for me)


I'm also a Linux user - if you're the downloading type, I'd highly recommend Amazon's MP3 download service - their collection of classical recordings is quite large and well priced, as well as DRM-free across the board. (I also don't know what program you use as a library program, but I've become quite accustomed to aTunes, which is apparently quite close to iTunes as far as interfaces go).

My collection, thanks to the tax man's kindness in giving me back my own money, will be growing shortly...updates on that to come.


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## Gorm Less (Dec 11, 2008)

jezbo said:


> I only have what hi-fi enthusiasts would call a "budget" system - all Best Buy stuff though - but still I can hear the difference between lossless formats and bog-standard mp3s when piped through my SqueezeBox (which has an on-board 24-bit Burr-Brown DAC) - this distinction seems to stand out much more with classical than other genres. I want to know any music files that I store won't be wasted when I upgrade to better kit when I can afford it.


Burr-Brown make a variety of DACs and the one fitted to Logitech's Squeezebox is, I believe, very much a budget one. I believe it is their PCM1748 model which has a 100db SNR, which is nothing much to get excited about. It is about on a par with the quality of DAC fitted to cheap stand-alone CD players.

In a reasonably decent internal sound card, such as Creative Labs "Extreme Music" X-fi, the SNR is 109 db. This is respectable but still not outstanding, and is broadly on a par with the DAC used in top end budget CD players.

On my PC system I have this Creative sound card linked to a decent integrated amplifier and pair of bookshelf speakers (each costing around £700 = $1000 approx). I upgraded it from the standard sound card that was shipped with the PC, and it made a vast difference to sound quality.

There is nothing wrong with my ears and I am very fussy about sound quality. I genuinely cannot tell the difference between MP3 at 256 or 320 kbps and lossless formats. Even at 192 kbits the quality is still pretty good on most material. Nor can anyone tell the difference whom I have asked to test the results based on a range of material.

However, on my living room system, which is all entirely conventional kit and which cost quite a lot more, small sound improvements are noticeable compared with using the PC as a sound source, but it is necessary to wind up the volume by quite a bit in order to appreciate it. The extra sound quality is not really worth it but it looks nicer with all its gleaming lights and polished aluminium etc. In any event I prefer the more intimate experience of my study which is ideal for listening to music.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I must upgrade my kit ! I am pretty satisfied with the sound quality on my budget system but there are only a few pieces that really blow me away with the quality (ie. you can almost imagine the performers are in the room if you close your eyes). I'd love to have that feeling with more pieces!


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

Gorm Less said:


> Burr-Brown make a variety of DACs and the one fitted to Logitech's Squeezebox is, I believe, very much a budget one. I believe it is their PCM1748 model which has a 100db SNR, which is nothing much to get excited about. It is about on a par with the quality of DAC fitted to cheap stand-alone CD players.
> 
> In a reasonably decent internal sound card, such as Creative Labs "Extreme Music" X-fi, the SNR is 109 db. This is respectable but still not outstanding, and is broadly on a par with the DAC used in top end budget CD players.
> 
> ...


I hear a lot of people that say the same thing about mp3 and lossless audio. I would definitely agree that the majority of people can't tell the difference, but I decided to test myself. I had my family make a playlist of various mp3's and flaac files and then had them play it. Out of 25 songs, I only couldn't tell the difference in 3 of them. 

That is why I consider my self a serious audio file. Though, I also can remember ALMOST every instrument in a piece after only hearing it a time or two. It's like I have photographic memory, but for sound. :-/ Stranger than that, I normally can't remember the names of songs. ^_^;;; Really, music is the only thing that my memory is geared towards; which, actually sucks quite a bit. I can't even remember my zip code and I've lived in the same two places for my whole life. (I've a memory problem due to complication when I was born.)



> I'm also a Linux user - if you're the downloading type, I'd highly recommend Amazon's MP3 download service - their collection of classical recordings is quite large and well priced, as well as DRM-free across the board. (I also don't know what program you use as a library program, but I've become quite accustomed to aTunes, which is apparently quite close to iTunes as far as interfaces go).
> 
> My collection, thanks to the tax man's kindness in giving me back my own money, will be growing shortly...updates on that to come.


Oh, I didn't realize that they were drm free. XD Though, I normally just go ahead and by a cd. I like to have options open in case I want to rip a cd into flaac files. Like I was just telling Gorm Less, I really see the quality difference between the two with my sound system. Though, it's always nice to know that you can download albums you might not be able to find on disc..


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh? Since when did they stop using DRM protected media? I KNOW that all the old stuff I bought was protected....


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Oh hell, everyone here seems to have loads and stocks of CDs that are counted in thousands. I've got less than 300 and I've been collecting for about 3 years. And that's a lot, in fact, 'cause it means I've been buying a CD every 4 days or so, in average. 

There are two reasons why I don't own more:

1. I don't have so much pocket money. I can't spend more than a third of my monthly 'income' on CDs. And that makes about 3-4 disks.

2. I don't see the point. I can tell you that, even now with about 200 and some dozens of classical, I still have to go through my collection every few months and check which CDs I should really re-listen, because I haven't done that in a year or more. And I feel, the more disks I have, the less I enjoy them. Although there are hundreds of candidates to be bought in the CD-shops I regularly visit, I think I'll have to stop and think - and rationalise my shopping spree. When I have 500, I intend to make a long pause.

3. + I never buy two versions of the same work if I can help it. Two recordings, I mean. First I want to hear many works, than I'll venture to hear many versions. Perhaps. Because I care more about the composer than about the performer.

Now to answer the questions:
1. As I said, 250-300 CDs.
2. Mostly Romantic, but I'm not so sure, might be more of 20th century.
3. On shelves. Neatly ordered according to my own system of classification, which is a cross between chronological, national and stylistic.


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

Nothing wrong with having 300 cd's. ;-) I have 1400+ cd's, but it's just a result of having collected them since I was 10. Also, I hardly EVER buy music anymore. I don't really need to most of the time. I DO however look for people I don't have. If I don't have a composer, like them and have had somebody recommend them to me, I'll normally try to buy them... ALSO, I have many different versions done by many different conductors and orchestras. So, a lot of the time, I'll go and listen to an opera 4 times, all different versions.

SO! If you divide the works by how many version I have, I probably have about 500cd's worth. ^^;;


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

My 3000+ collection is a result of 20 years worth of buying,trading,etc,etc. I love it and consider it as a part of the family in a way.I still buy music but usually rare works,rare composers,and special editions.
Needless to say,I don't listen to them all nor could I ever. But I can if I want to and that's the key point. I know what I have,who conducted what and when,etc. These years of listening,collecting and analyzing have taught me so much that I doubt any college could ever train me the same way. And I paid a lot less too!! I would say I paid an average of $2-5 per disc when added up. That's rather inexpensive over the period of time it has taken to amass these babies.

Jim


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## Edmond-Dantes (Mar 20, 2009)

I see. Well, I don't buy cd's for the sake of collecting. It just sort of happened.  Now, I don't have 4000+ cd's, but I HAVE listened to all of them at VERY LEAST once or twice. But then again, I love listening to different interpretations.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Will all our disks start tarnishing and decomposing one day? That is one of my greatest fears!


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

I have only had an issue with a cd and deterioration. Back in the 80's, Pearl/Opal and some Chandos CD's have a bronzing effect that was eating the disc away. The company that pressed them in the UK (PDO if I remember correctly). Fanfare magazine published an article on it and they took back all 25+ Cd's of mine and replaced every disc. Since then, not a problem with any CD in my collection.

Jim


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Lisztfreak said:


> Will all our disks start tarnishing and decomposing one day? That is one of my greatest fears!


Well let me put it this way, we'll all be dead before one of our CDs decomposes.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> Well let me put it this way, we'll all be dead before one of our CDs decomposes.


Well, as Jim points out, maybe not. See here also.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Elgarian said:


> Well, as Jim points out, maybe not. See here also.


I'm not too worried about it. I've been backing up all of my classical CDs on hard drives, but I also burn copies of all of them as well.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

I have about 1/3rd of my collection converted to mp3 and backed up on a hard drive. I want to eventually convert all of the collection but it is soo time consuming. Maybe someday.

Jim


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

handlebar said:


> I have about 1/3rd of my collection converted to mp3 and backed up on a hard drive. I want to eventually convert all of the collection but it is soo time consuming. Maybe someday.
> 
> Jim


Absolutely, converting CDs does take a lot of time, but the payoff is worth it and I'm glad I got an early start on my collection.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Lisztfreak said:


> ... I feel, the more disks I have, the less I enjoy them...I never buy two versions of the same work if I can help it. Two recordings, I mean...Perhaps. Because I care more about the composer than about the performer.


I only have about 150 CDs. About 50 of these are jazz & the rest classical. I intend to stop collecting for a while when I reach 200. I agree with Lisztfreak's comments. I'm very minimalist. I would only own about 3 cds maximum of works by the same composer, because any more and I tend to feel that I'm just duplicating, in a way. I'd rather explore & discover other composers, rather than listening to the same one over and over, no matter how much I like him. I don't own any boxed sets, although I do have a number of 2 cd sets of works by the one composer or by a group of performers.

I think that in many ways, for me, "less is more." & I also want to have time to do other things, not just listen to music. & I also want to listen to classical radio, and listen to friend's cds as well. There's more to life than simply amassing things...


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Andre said:


> I think that in many ways, for me, "less is more." & I also want to have time to do other things, not just listen to music. & I also want to listen to classical radio, and listen to friend's cds as well. There's more to life than simply amassing things...


I think there's nothing wrong with collecting. Many people enjoy collecting and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a huge collector.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> I think there's nothing wrong with collecting. Many people enjoy collecting and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a huge collector.


I don't have anything against collectors of CD's. or other things like vinyl records, or even stamps, bottletops, autographs, vintage books, or other such hobbies. These are some of the things that make people interesting & different. & I know that for CD collectors it's more than just the music, but also the sleevenotes & cover design, or having a whole set, for example.

I just like to keep my collection on the slim side because I want to be able to listen to the CD's regularly, and get to know them well. I also don't want to get overloaded with CD's, both physically and mentally, if you know what I mean. I like to intimately know what I have, rather than spreading myself out too much. That's just me, but everybody's different.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm the same, I review LOTS of stuff by downloading (I listen while I'm working) but due to space restrictions I limit my CD purchases (which I listen to in the evenings) to the best interpretations of my favourite pieces - those that I know I will play again and again. I only buy a couple of CDs a month normally.


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## Drowning_by_numbers (May 30, 2006)

1. How large is your collection?
Large - just had to upgrade my Ipod to a 160GB because I couldn't fit it all on on =(

2. That period of classical does your collection consist the most of?
20th/21st Century <3 I love Renaissance music too, especially pre-Palestrina.. really really not a big Romantic/Classical fan to be honest. Obviously there are big exceptions but I don;t like the simplicity of Classical and really don;t like over emotional romantic/late romantic music. But anything choral is pretty much my cup of tea =)

3. Where do you store your classical music?
ITunes. In a nutshell.


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

I have 2 modest cabinets full of CDs and some DVDs of concerts, operas and documentaries... i need a 3rd one for the latest purchases... they're temporarily sotred in Stack & Store plastic containers ... until i find time to shop for a 3rd... http://photos.friendster.com/photos/92/41/2861429/1_415770455l.jpg :-c 

... cd boxes that are too big / too heavy for the plastic boxes are stored in the closet...ahaha ...my aunt always scolds me complaining about the sad state of the closet demoted to the role of CD storage ....

The collection is music from 1600s - 1830s ... although there are the occasional world historical performances/premier performances of Chopin, Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Schubert etc. on modern instruments.

There are multiple albums of Biber, Rebel, Schmelzer, Matteis, Marais etc. played by different ensembles... i just like collecting different ensembles playing the same piece... 

... i don't buy mp3s :-.


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

JTech82 said:


> I would like to know three things:
> 
> 1. How large is your collection?
> 
> ...


Figured I'd post mine:

1) About 600 CDs
2) Baroque and 20th century, mostly. There's a lot of country music and Tin Pan Alley, too.
3) I've got a tiny closet that has near-perfect shelves for jewel cases. It couldn't work better.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

JTech82 said:


> 1. How large is your collection?


I have 1252 CD's, all but 5 are in western classical music (I have another 20 of jazz, tango and cuban music that I don't count), since I began buying CD's when I was 12, that means I bought circa 100 cds/year (roughly 1 for every 4 days), which I think is a quite large number. I'm not a collector in a sense of wanting to have every recording of a certain piece (I hardly own two or more recordings, which doesn't mean I don't know other), but I like to buy CDs of pieces I like or want to know. I would never use more money than now to buy a larger amount of discs. Exception to this some operas: I own several recordings of Boris Godunov, Rigoletto, Le Nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Zauberflöte.



JTech82 said:


> 2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?


It is quite balanced, as I think is balanced my taste.I have:
-* 7 *Cds (0,6%) of *pre-polyphony* and *non western classical music*, 
-*17* CDs (1,4%) of *polyphony *up until _Palestrina_ and _Thomas Tallis_, 
-*42* CDs (3,4%) (and 9 DVD's, all Monteverdi's) of *late-renaissence, early baroque *(11 of _Byrd _and 19 _Monteverdi_), 
-*310* CDs (24,8%) of *baroque *(arround 200 of _Bach_, 20 of _Handel_), 
-*441 * CDs (35,2%) of *Classicism *(20 DVDs, mostly MOzart) arround 250 of _Mozart_, 100 of _Haydn_, 40 of _Beethoven_; 
-*255 * CDs (20,4%) of *Romanticism *(44 DVDs), mostly _Mendelssohn_, _Brahms_, _Verdi _and _Mussorgsky _(depite his very meagre output)
-*180 * CDs (14,4%) (18 DVD's) of *20th and 21th century* (far more diverse, _Bartók_, _Stravinsky_, _Messiaen_, _Schoenberg _and_ Villa-lobos_ are the most common).



JTech82 said:


> 3. Where do you store your classical music?


I made some shelves to the large boxes like the Brilliant sets, but the larger part I store in some drawers made specially to the storage of Cds, so it is easy to store and to find them.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

JTech82 said:


> 1. How large is your collection?
> 
> 2. What period of classical does your collection consist the most of?
> 
> 3. Where do you store your classical music?


1. I would say now my classical collection is well over 1,000 CDs.

2. The Romantic and 20th Century seem to be the bulk of my collection, but I'm slowly acquiring more Classical and Baroque era recordings.

3. I keep them in large filing cabinets.


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## Mongoose (Jun 4, 2009)

Dear me! There are some folks who enjoy collecting,as I do with some 3000+ cds,plus lp's,tapes and 78's. I am a collector and also love music. Perhaps those who download do love music but don't want rooms full of plastic boxes and such. But those who download illegally are simply not helping anyone because they are stealing,plain and simple.
I keep my collection on wooden shelves got from such places as Argos and DIY stores,and strengthened,but I could do with a larger house.
I wonder what is the point of having cd's and then putting them into a server. If the thing crashes everything is lost,and one day it will happen,or one will get something better. Besides,think of the time spent on loading the cd's into the server. You could be enjoying the music!
Best wishes,Mongoose.


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## Mongoose (Jun 4, 2009)

I failed to mention my music choices. From the 18th century onwards,but mostly the period from 1800 to the middle of the 20th century,and my great love is Elgar.
Mongoose


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Mongoose said:


> Dear me! There are some folks who enjoy collecting,as I do with some 3000+ cds,plus lp's,tapes and 78's. I am a collector and also love music. Perhaps those who download do love music but don't want rooms full of plastic boxes and such. But those who download illegally are simply not helping anyone because they are stealing,plain and simple.
> I keep my collection on wooden shelves got from such places as Argos and DIY stores,and strengthened,but I could do with a larger house.
> I wonder what is the point of having cd's and then putting them into a server. If the thing crashes everything is lost,and one day it will happen,or one will get something better. Besides,think of the time spent on loading the cd's into the server. You could be enjoying the music!
> Best wishes,Mongoose.


Sounds like you've got a big collection like me! 

If I put my classical and jazz CDs together I would probably have around 7,000 albums. Thank goodness for a basement! 

Anyway, it's good to meet collectors like myself around here. Most people, not all of them, are so mp3 crazy that I can't have a decent conversation about collecting with anyone.

My classical collection has since been updated, so it's quite large now.


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

JTech82 said:


> The ONLY way I would download anything is if it was a CD that is out-of-print and it was the only the way I could hear it.


Disagreed. I try before I buy in all cases. It's musical natural selection, and saves the landfill from bad music...


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2018)

Daniel said:


> Stop this!
> 
> Now, be very careful, what you write! _Very_ careful! This is an official warning.
> 
> The moderation


Oh! Okay then. .


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