# Dvorak cycle?



## padraic

I just recently acquired Kertesz/LSO doing Symphonies 5,7,8,9.

Should I go for the whole Kertesz cycle? There's also Kubelik/BPO and Rowicki with LSO, who apparently did the whole cycle a few years after Kertesz.

Thoughts?


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## Pugg

padraic said:


> I just recently acquired Kertesz/LSO doing Symphonies 5,7,8,9.
> 
> Should I go for the whole Kertesz cycle? There's also Kubelik/BPO and Rowicki with LSO, who apparently did the whole cycle a few years after Kertesz.
> 
> Thoughts?


I would go for the whole Kertesz set , the Kubelik is good but when _you have_ to choose, the Kertesz :tiphat:


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## Truckload

Yes, the Kertész is an easy choice for a first complete Dvorak cycle. I have many recordings of the Dvorak Symphonies, this one by the LSO with István Kertész conducting is remarkably consistent and an incredible bargain.









Sound quality is good, performances are of course perfect as to be expected with the LSO, and the tempos and interpretation by Kertesz became the standard for the Dvorak symphonies. He gives the same loving care to each of the symphonies, even the lesser known first three. You can find better sound quality with newer performances but this is an enormous bargain.


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## Arsakes

Yes, Kertész is the best and the quality is still very good. For example listen to his Symphony No.3 II.Adagio molto, tempo di marcia. I doubt any other conductor can do it better!

And don't forget about Dvorak's other excellent works:

4 Piano Trios
2 Piano Quintets
2 Piano Quartets
Cello, Violin and Piano Concertos
Slavonic Dances
14 String Quartets (all are great, maybe except #2 and 3)
Suites, Serenades, Seven Interludes, Legend, Bagatelles and Drobnosti
Stabat Mater and Requiem
Overtures and Symphonic Poems (In Nature's Realm Overture, Othello, A Hero's Song, My Homeland, The Golden Spinning-Wheel, The Noon Witch, The Water Goblin, Wood Dove etc.)

For comparison those Symphonic Poems are at the same level of Sibelius. But I think Sibelius is a little better here.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I have a number of various choices when it comes to Dvorák's symphonies including Kertész, Ferenc Fricsay, Rafael Kubelik, Ivan Fischer, Karajan, George Szell, Karel Ancerl, Vaclav Talich, Bělohlávek, and Otmar Suitner. Obviously I don't believe in a single "best" performance of a given work of music... in most instances. My personal favorite recording for the entire symphonic cycle is Suitner, but you wouldn't go wrong starting with a complete cycle by any of the major players: Kertész, Kubelik, Fischer, Bělohlávek, Witold Rowicki, Vaclav Neumann...

The best way to feel out recordings is to get one of the music streaming services... I use Spotify... and listen to a number of different recordings. I took a quick look at Spotify options and they have almost every recording I mentioned above.


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## padraic

Thanks all.


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## Enthusiast

Certainly Kertesz but I wouldn't like to lose out on Kubelik's 8 (or 7 and 9, come to that). I do feel that Kubelik finds less in the lesser first four symphonies than Kertesz. Have anyone tried Neumann's set on Supraphon?


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## Triplets

Enthusiast said:


> Certainly Kertesz but I wouldn't like to lose out on Kubelik's 8 (or 7 and 9, come to that). I do feel that Kubelik finds less in the lesser first four symphonies than Kertesz. Have anyone tried Neumann's set on Supraphon?


 I heard the Neumann New World a few years back. It's hard to kill that piece but he didn't make the hairs stand on the back of my head either.


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## Enthusiast

Triplets said:


> I heard the Neumann New World a few years back. It's hard to kill that piece but he didn't make the hairs stand on the back of my head either.


I don't know about the behaviour of the hairs on the back of your neck but I do enjoy Neumann's New World even if it is not perhaps one of the numerous barnstorming accounts. It is as a complete set, though, that Neumann's effective, idiomatic and often gently lyrical approach can pay dividends. There are many really good New Worlds, at least two of them belonging to complete sets (those of Kertesz, which is an excellent set throughout, and Kubelik).


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## dieter

Enthusiast said:


> Certainly Kertesz but I wouldn't like to lose out on Kubelik's 8 (or 7 and 9, come to that). I do feel that Kubelik finds less in the lesser first four symphonies than Kertesz. Have anyone tried Neumann's set on Supraphon?


The Neumann is fantastic. He was such an under-rated conductor. His Mahler set is great as well.


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## dieter

*Suitner*

I like the Suitner set a lot as well. His tempi are on the brisk side but he has a magnificent orchestra and they play their guts out for him.
I don't rate the Kubelik set very much at all: Kubelik uses the wrong orchestra. The Berlin Phil played magnificent Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven and Strauss etc etc, but Bohemia isn't in their geist.


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## jim prideaux

I have recently got hold of the Suitner cycle and am really impressed. I was already more than happy with the Belohlavek recordings but could not resist.......individual recordings of the underrated early symphonies by Jarvi can be recommended as can Harnoncourt's 7th....I have a particularly soft spot for the Ancerl Supraphon recording of the 6th I bought in......Prague.


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## KenOC

I preferred the Kubelik cycle to the Kertesz, narrowly, but lately listened to some of the Neumann cycle in response to a Saturday Symphony and suspect I'll prefer it over both. But have to listen to more of it.


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## Pugg

padraic said:


> Thanks all.


And did you made a choice also?


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## Enthusiast

dieter said:


> I like the Suitner set a lot as well. His tempi are on the brisk side but he has a magnificent orchestra and they play their guts out for him.
> I don't rate the Kubelik set very much at all: Kubelik uses the wrong orchestra. The Berlin Phil played magnificent Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven and Strauss etc etc, but Bohemia isn't in their geist.


Thank you for that recommendation. I have enjoyed Suitner in the past and see that his Dvorak set can be had as a download fairly cheaply. I am quite tempted. And I agree with you on Neumann's Mahler and, indeed, his Dvorak. The Dvorak set is full of life - the performances are fresh and very enjoyable.


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## Xaltotun

Love the Neumann set. His 9th makes me think of the _heimlich_ Bohemia rather than the wild New World, so it's certainly different. The 5th, 6th and 8th may be highlights where his lyricism really pays off.


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## amfortas

I chose the Kertesz set and am happy with it, but haven't done the extensive comparisons of other posters.


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## jim prideaux

Xaltotun said:


> Love the Neumann set. His 9th makes me think of the _heimlich_ Bohemia rather than the wild New World, so it's certainly different. The 5th, 6th and 8th may be highlights where his lyricism really pays off.


taken note of this observation as any recording of the 9th which might drag the imagination away from the assumption that the 9th concerns the west rather than Dvorak's 'homeland' is to my mind a good thing!.......only problem is I now have to get hold of the Neumann set to check this out.....

Thanks Xaltotun....oh and by the way-having visited your city on a few occasions I can only express my admiration for such a wonderful place....


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## Animal the Drummer

Newer research suggests that the 9th may well have been inspired by Longfellow's "Hiawatha". That probably isn't the reason why most have tended to associate the piece with America rather than Bohemia, but as it turns out they may not have been wrong in doing so.


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## Vaneyes

Suitner for the cycle. Supplements: NYPO/LB's 7 (Sony, rec.1963); ACO/Harnoncourt 9 (Teldec, rec.1999). :tiphat:


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## jim prideaux

Animal the Drummer said:


> Newer research suggests that the 9th may well have been inspired by Longfellow's "Hiawatha". That probably isn't the reason why most have tended to associate the piece with America rather than Bohemia, but as it turns out they may not have been wrong in doing so.


great post! any idea where you came across this possible interpretation?

Dvorak is (alongside Sibelius,Nielsen and Martinu) probably the composer I listen to the most, often because of the lyricism and melodic invention-as I have pointed out on a number of other threads I believe he is often almost taken for granted because of this inherent accessibility..... funnily enough currently listening to Mendelssohn 1st and in the second movement I believe I can hear an apparent precursor of Dvorak!

back to agitating about the Neumann cycle!


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## Johnnie Burgess

Truckload said:


> Yes, the Kertész is an easy choice for a first complete Dvorak cycle. I have many recordings of the Dvorak Symphonies, this one by the LSO with István Kertész conducting is remarkably consistent and an incredible bargain.
> 
> View attachment 83428
> 
> 
> Sound quality is good, performances are of course perfect as to be expected with the LSO, and the tempos and interpretation by Kertesz became the standard for the Dvorak symphonies. He gives the same loving care to each of the symphonies, even the lesser known first three. You can find better sound quality with newer performances but this is an enormous bargain.


Yes it is a great recording of the symphony cycle.


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## Merl

Suitner and Neumann (both 70s and 80s cycles) are top of the shop for me, in Dvorak cycles, with Belohlavek 3rd and Kubelik a close 4th. Tbf, there's little between those recordings, quality-wise and most of the Dvorak cycles are at least good quality. Finally getting to hear the Kosler ones on Brilliant and they sound very good too. The only set I've never warmed to is Rowicki's. Maybe I'll lcome back to it soon.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Animal the Drummer said:


> Newer research suggests that the 9th may well have been inspired by Longfellow's "Hiawatha". That probably isn't the reason why most have tended to associate the piece with America rather than Bohemia, but as it turns out they may not have been wrong in doing so.


Antonín Dvořák wrote it while in America. It's premier was also in America.


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## Scarr

I still find the Kertesz set vital and satisfying. It was the first complete set of symphonies I ever bought. I frequently go back to it.I also have a couple of the original vinyls.


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## Pugg

Scarr said:


> I still find the Kertesz set vital and satisfying. It was the first complete set of symphonies I ever bought. I frequently go back to it.I also have a couple of the original vinyls.


I agree with you 100 % , but then again, lots of people have different taste.


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## Enthusiast

OK. I have now listened to most of Suitner's set (much of it twice) and have been blown away. It is at least the equal of Kertesz to my ears.


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## Triplets

Pugg said:


> I agree with you 100 % , but then again, lots of people have different taste.


Yes, but only my opinion matters:devil:


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