# Brahms Symphony no. 1, which one?



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

If you were a music teacher and wanted your students to watch a youtube video of Brahms no. 1, would you show them Bernstein with the Vienna Phil or Skrowaczewski and Hamburg Phil...(Asking for myself). The students are in high school and 17/18 years old, not many know classical music apart from what I thought them in music history since last autumn.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> The students are in high school and 17/18 years old, not many know classical music apart from what I thought them in music history since last autumn.


It doesn't matter which performance, what matters is the video. I would choose this, the Brahms starts at 34 secs

[video=dailymotion;x3dj1u7]https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3dj1u7[/video]


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> It doesn't matter which performance, what matters is the video. I would choose this, the Brahms starts at 34 secs
> 
> [video=dailymotion;x3dj1u7]https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3dj1u7[/video]


On my "reply with quote" there is a video, but it doesn't show in your post...


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Aha! Last mvt. of a Brahms there


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

i think the Bernstein videos are very good.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I’m familiar with that Bernstein video, and though Lenny’s Vienna Brahms cycle has its admirers, I’m not one of them though I am a tremendous admirer of Brahms and Bernstein alike. Way too artificial and idiosyncratic; the last movement loses drama due to the constant pushing about of tempi. Go with the straightforward Skrow, then maybe play Lenny to the students to show them the immense difference that interpretation can make


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This comes closest to Brahms himself, and avoids the overladen interpretation.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

This one is well shot with great sound, and the tempii are brisker.

But whatever floats your boat.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Karajan ‘64 would be my pick for an introduction


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

ArtMusic said:


> This comes closest to Brahms himself, and avoids the overladen interpretation.


What do you exactly mean by this?


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

My pick would be any of the recordings by von Karajan.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Highwayman said:


> What do you exactly mean by this?


Period instruments, smaller forces, and brisker tempi. However, I think Gardiner is misguided in thinking Brahms would have wanted his approach.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

ORigel said:


> Period instruments, smaller forces, and brisker tempi. However, I think Gardiner is misguided in thinking Brahms would have wanted his approach.


That's a generalization.

By the time of the 1870's there were already conductors who were only a generation away from the conductors who recorded music in the mid-20th century or earlier, many might have worked with Brahms himself or were students in some circle associated with Brahms. So what we hear from Gardiner is not winding the clock backwards from 1870's but is mostly consistent with that period over to the 20th century.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

It's not that far back to Brahms, is it? I've played in an orchestra under Wilfred Lehmann. He studied with Alfred Hill. Alfred Hill played in the Gewandhaus Orchestra and was conducted by Brahms himself. And Lehmann is still alive. Three degrees of separation!


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

the 1st part of this simphony narrates about war and genocide, the prayers of victims and cruelty of perpetrators; the timpani in the beginning lead march into the combat zone, where thousands are to be slayed:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I can't remember if it was Tony Blair or Neil Kinnock who used the pompous last movement as he walked on stage in a Labour Party Conference. I can't find any footage on YouTube.



Zhdanov said:


> the 1st part of this simphony narrates about war and genocide, the prayers of victims and cruelty of perpetrators; the timpani in the beginning lead march into the combat zone, where thousands are to be slayed:
> 
> []


I too hear the first movement as perfect for footage over a war zone. There's a Giulini which is perfect for this, on BBC Legends I think, with an Mozart symphony, but no one's made the video!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

GraemeG said:


> . Three degrees of separation!


That's a lot in something as fickle and fashion dependent as commercial music performance.



ArtMusic said:


> That's a generalization.
> 
> By the time of the 1870's there were already conductors who were only a generation away from the conductors who recorded music in the mid-20th century or earlier, many might have worked with Brahms himself or were students in some circle associated with Brahms. So what we hear from Gardiner is not winding the clock backwards from 1870's but is mostly consistent with that period over to the 20th century.


I think there's some evidence that it's the stuff that people like Furtwangler and Mengelberg did which is a 20th century anachronism, and that Brahms intended small orchestra and lithe performance. The work of Thomas Zehetmair is important for reconstructing this, there's a good essay in the booklet of his CD.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> ... and that Brahms intended small orchestra and lithe performance...


If that`s true, Brahms surely composed the wrong music...


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

According to THE ROUGH GUIDE to Classical Music:

Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra; Karajan
(Deutsche Grammophon; with Schumann Symphony No. 1)
Karajan recorded this symphony several times, but it’s in this
1963 version that his grip on the music is at its strongest. The
many great moments are lithe, muscular and unswerving in
their sweep and authority, but there’s also a greater degree
of poetry than you find in most accounts, and the orchestral
playing is superb throughout.

Philharmonia Orchestra; Klemperer
(EMI; with Alto Rhapsody & Tragic Overture)
Some critics find Klemperer a ponderous rather than
inspired Brahms interpreter. It’s true that his reading of the
first symphony is extraordinarily stately, but it’s also majestic,
with grandeur and warmth going hand in hand.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Ok people! We are freaks who can listen to this music...I decided to play Skrowaczewski on YouTube for my students. They had enough half way through the 1st movement. Some started talking and some looked really tired...Last class before the weekend. Must have been something with the interpretation :devil:


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Ok people! We are freaks who can listen to this music...I decided to play Skrowaczewski on YouTube for my students. They had enough half way through the 1st movement. Some started talking and some looked really tired...Last class before the weekend. Must have been something with the interpretation :devil:


Brahms symphonies can be pretty tough going for a bunch of impatient students. I didn't really appreciate them until I was in my 40's. They might be more attuned to the Hungarian Dances, the overtures, or the violin concerto.


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