# Melchior and / or Hotter



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Are there any Wagner fans here that don't care for these singers?
Or prefer other singers to them?
:tiphat:


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Melchior is the greatest tenor not named Caruso.

Hotter is overrated.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Melchior is the greatest tenor not named Caruso.


I totally second this!



> Hotter is overrated.


You're a hopeless case :lol:. I'm very fond of Hotter - I think he was a super intelligent artist but that's entirely my personal opinion.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

There's no beating Melchior as Siegfried, Tannhauser, or Tristan imo, but in the less dramatic heldentenor roles I prefer Volker. But I should point out that I haven't heard any full recordings of his.

Hotter varies from performance to performance more than most, he can even be downright bad, but at his best I don't think a more complete Wotan has ever lived.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

What on earth caused you to dismiss Hotter like that? He was generally recognised as one of the greatest bas/baritones of his generation. His Wotan was superlative


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Bonetan said:


> There's no beating Melchior as Siegfried, Tannhauser, or Tristan imo, but in the less dramatic heldentenor roles I prefer Volker.


Melchior also rules Siegmund. Volker is right up there with the very best. Their Lohengrins are basically tied for me.



> What on earth caused you to dismiss Hotter like that? He was generally recognised as one of the greatest bas/baritones of his generation. His Wotan was superlative


I've laid it out in a couple of other threads, but the gist is that I think Hotter made his sound overly dark so that it lost flexibility, range of color, and clarity. I'm afraid I just don't hear much of the characterization that many say they hear, at least not vocal characterization, in his singing. I mostly hear a woofy monotone that lacks squillo and has vibrato problems. His earlier work is much better, particularly th e1938 recording with Fuchs and Seidler-Winkler. For an example of what I consider more affecting vocal acting, Hans Reinmar's recordings of Wotan are a strong preference, though others have said they don't find him expressive. He does all his expression through the coloration/registration of his voice and the vocal line. Schorr also does this very well.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> There's no beating Melchior as Siegfried, Tannhauser, or Tristan imo, but in the less dramatic heldentenor roles I prefer Volker. But I should point out that I haven't heard any full recordings of his.
> 
> Hotter varies from performance to performance more than most, he can even be downright bad, but at his best I don't think a more complete Wotan has ever lived.


I was very disappointed to hear his '53, '54 Bayreuth performances - his voice was very unsteady even then, though much less so than on the Solti recordings. I still admire him for his authority, but that was a shock. I guess it's one of his voice's characteristics.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I've laid it out in a couple of other threads, but the gist is that I think Hotter made his sound overly dark so that it lost flexibility, range of color, and clarity. I'm afraid I just don't hear much of the characterization that many say they hear, at least not vocal characterization, in his singing. I mostly hear a woofy monotone that lacks squillo and has vibrato problems. His earlier work is much better, particularly th e1938 recording with Fuchs and Seidler-Winkler. For an example of what I consider more affecting vocal acting, Hans Reinmar's recordings of Wotan are a strong preference, though others have said they don't find him expressive. He does all his expression through the coloration/registration of his voice and the vocal line. Schorr also does this very well.


As it happens, I'm listening to Hans Reinmar's German Verdi Arias just now. Undoubtedly a magnificent voice and a wonderful singer!

I'm still not tired of talking about Hotter. I said "intelligent" in my last post and I mean this very literally. When I read some excerpts from his memoirs, I got a sense of a very wise person - both intellectually and as a singer. His vocal acting is somewhat different from the vocal acting in the late 19th and early 20th century, but Hotter still achieved it through vocal colours and immense expressivity of his voice. There was complex interpretative thought behind his singing and this I highly appreciate. I can overlook all vocal problems, which I've become used to as I've listened to Hotter, but there were the deep philosophical ideas behind his Wagner interpretations that I consider an essential part of Wagner's operas (although maybe that's a bit of a personal obsession). But yea, as I said, personal opinions . I surely have to thank you for introducing me to Reinmar - he made some utterly stunning recordings!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Melchior is the greatest tenor not named Caruso.
> 
> Hotter is overrated.


I get where you're coming from with Hotter and from a vocal standpoint I can't disagree, at least for much of his career. But when he was singing the way he did in the 40s and before I don't think he can be beat as Wotan. In manner, appearance, and color of voice he was Wotan. He had the majesty, the thundering power, and the soft, tender lieder singing in the quieter, fatherly passages. And he lacked for nothing on the top or bottom of his range in a role that asks for more than 2 full octaves. I can't think of any other Wotans who checked all of those boxes as he did. That's why I say a more complete Wotan has never lived.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Itullian, are you trying to tell us you don't like either? tsk tsk tsk :lol:

They are both some of my favorite singers, amazing and incomparable. Hotter is my favorite Wotan, and honestly I think I'd also like basically anything he sings. Though some don't, I love his timbre, and he sang with so much emotion.

Melchior was the definitive Heldentenor as I'm sure others have repeated over and over because it really is true. I prefer Jess Thomas and Sándor Kónya for Lohengrin, but those are the only Wagner roles I can say I'd for sure prefer another singer. Melchior is definitely unequalled as Tannhäuser.

By the way, it's not exactly relevant, but this thread conveniently was just started shortly before I just found out that Melchior and Gigli were born on the exact same day. Two major tenors, one in Wagnerian and one in Italian repertoire on the same day, what a coincidence!


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> As it happens, I'm listening to Hans Reinmar's German Verdi Arias just now. Undoubtedly a magnificent voice and a wonderful singer!
> 
> I'm still not tired of talking about Hotter. I said "intelligent" in my last post and I mean this very literally. When I read some excerpts from his memoirs, I got a sense of a very wise person - both intellectually and as a singer. His vocal acting is somewhat different from the vocal acting in the late 19th and early 20th century, but Hotter still achieved it through vocal colours and immense expressivity of his voice. There was complex interpretative thought behind his singing and this I highly appreciate. I can overlook all vocal problems, which I've become used to as I've listened to Hotter, but there were the deep philosophical ideas behind his Wagner interpretations that I consider an essential part of Wagner's operas (although maybe that's a bit of a personal obsession). But yea, as I said, personal opinions . I surely have to thank you for introducing me to Reinmar - he made some utterly stunning recordings!


Could you tell me where I can read these memoirs?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

adriesba said:


> Could you tell me where I can read these memoirs?


It's his autobiography, translated and edited by Donald Arthur...

https://www.amazon.com/Hans-Hotter-Memoirs/dp/1555536611


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## zxxyxxz (Apr 14, 2020)

Itullian said:


> Are there any Wagner fans here that don't care for these singers?
> Or prefer other singers to them?
> :tiphat:


I'm not bothered about Melchior, its been a long time since I've listened to some of his recordings but I always found he didn't sound right to me. Not youthful enough. Windgassen any day.

As for Hotter I like him as anything but Wotan. I find his Wotan too dull. A bit samey, though I will concede he does very well in the finale to Die Walküre.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I was looking at the MET Opera database and was rather surprised by the lukewarm reviews for Melchior's first performance there. His acting was strongly criticized, and one reviewer, Samuel Chotzinoff, criticized his singing. The last reviewer on the page was more positive though.

http://archives.metoperafamily.org/...xedate=&theterm=1925-26&x=0&xhomepath=&xhome=


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

adriesba said:


> I was looking at the MET Opera database and was rather surprised by the lukewarm reviews for Melchior's first performance there. His acting was strongly criticized, and one reviewer, Samuel Chotzinoff, criticized his singing. The last reviewer on the page was more positive though.
> 
> http://archives.metoperafamily.org/...xedate=&theterm=1925-26&x=0&xhomepath=&xhome=


So interesting! I was surprised to read this part:

It is quite likely that Mr. Melchior sang beautifully two years ago, but yesterday's performance revealed the familiar qualities of the usual German tenor voice. Mr. Melchior's , it is true, has not the unpleasant "bleat" which we are accustomed to hear from the throats of other Tannhäusers and Tristans at the Metropolitan, but the same old method is there - the same throaty emission, the straining on high notes, the sudden explosions.
.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Bonetan said:


> So interesting! I was surprised to read this part:
> 
> It is quite likely that Mr. Melchior sang beautifully two years ago, but yesterday's performance revealed the familiar qualities of the usual German tenor voice. Mr. Melchior's , it is true, has not the unpleasant "bleat" which we are accustomed to hear from the throats of other Tannhäusers and Tristans at the Metropolitan, but the same old method is there - the same throaty emission, the straining on high notes, the sudden explosions.
> .


Yes, that's the part I found most interesting. I wonder, was Melchior having a bad day? Was that reviewer just pessimistic? Did Melchior sing differently early in his career? I find that critique most curious.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

You're correct! I'm not crazy about either of these icons.
Hotter seems unwieldy and almost too overwhelming sometimes.
I never really liked Melchior. To me he sounds like he has cotton in his mouth.
I don't care for his sound/tone.
I know this is heretical, but i just prefer others.
Guess i should duck now.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'll mention Melchior's Parsifal, which is deeply sympathetic, intense, and of course splendidly vocalized. He leads us powerfully through the whole evolution of _der reine Tor_'s psyche from callow youth to compassionate healer and leader. Conrad Osborne wrote of the "heady exaltation" of Melchior's "Nur eine Waffe taugt," which no one else could quite equal. It's hard to disagree:






The only Wagner tenor role in which I prefer others to Melchior is Lohengrin, for whom I prefer a softer timbre.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

As much as I love Hotter in Wagner, I think where I love him most is in lieder. I never had a grandfather, but when I listen to Hotter singing lieder I imagine him as my grandfather telling me stories in song and singing me to sleep like this...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> As much as I love Hotter in Wagner, I think where I love him most is in lieder. I never had a grandfather, but when I listen to Hotter singing lieder I imagine him as my grandfather telling me stories in song and singing me to sleep like this...


He sounds old, don't you think, and a bit frail? Not like someone who projected Wotan from the stage of an opera house.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> He sounds old, don't you think, and a bit frail? Not like someone who projected Wotan from the stage of an opera house.


Yes! I've always thought Hotter sounded somewhat grandfatherly, even before he was actually old. I hear tender rather than frail however.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> Yes! I've always thought Hotter sounded somewhat grandfatherly, even before he was actually old. I hear tender rather than frail however.


I hear both! It starts off in a wonderful hushed tone. He really speaks the text rather than making a seamless, legato like Fischer-Dieskau's version. However, his voice wavers and succumbs to weakness later on in the piece. Interesting, but did he sing it better at another point in his career?

N.


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