# Intensive Adult Music Programs?



## hopkins

Hi! Newbie here. I'm a 29 year old female who is about to finish her PhD and has spring/summer available. I've always wanted to seriously learn classical piano and given the nice block of time available to me, now seems a good time to dive in. I'm looking for suggestions of programs which, in an ideal world, meet some or all of these criteria:

- Accepts beginners (obvious but important to note)
- Intensive/Extended program (3+ months is ideal, but anywhere in the 1-8 range is acceptable)
- Designed for adults/young adults (again obvious but noteworthy)
- Preferably international location (I'm located in the US and would, if at all possible, like to study abroad. I'm near fluent in Russian and intermediate in Spanish, however the courses/instruction would need to be in English).
- Cost is a factor in that I can't drop 10k USD for a semester long program, but am prepared to pay standard fees
- I'd like something all inclusive, which is a big one. I know I could just find a tutor in say, Austria--stay in a hostel, practice on my own...but in a perfect world I'd like an all inclusive program like those which are available for langauges. It'd be nice to get a total introduction through music theory lectures, music reading, etc. 


Any suggestions on programs/schools/websites to begin looking would be very much appreciated!


:tiphat:


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## hreichgott

If you go international the big issue will be practice piano availability. Sure, you can sleep in a hostel, but how many hostels will have a good practice instrument and let you play on it for big blocks of time daily? So being at a program would be a good idea. I assume you have already looked at the universities and music schools in locations that interest you to see if there are courses you can sign up for without being enrolled in a degree program. That would be a logical first step. 

In New York there is a nice program for adults called Pianophoria which is a one or two week intensive. They claim to be for all levels of adult students but they only build in 2 hours of practice a day so they probably aren't set up for advanced students. I can recommend the teachers highly. pianophoria.com, I think.


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## catdischawsehole

What about such a programs now?


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## catdischawsehole

hopkins said:


> - Preferably international location (I'm located in the US and would, if at all possible, like to study abroad.


I am also interested in this point


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## railssvelte

catdischawsehole said:


> I am also interested in this point


There are a lot of ways to study abroad, just try to find something in the forums for immigrants. But I would recommend you to research this point more, you might find a lot of cons to it. I found some interesting materials here https://eduzaurus.com/free-essay-samples/studying-abroad/ during preparing the coursework. Especially, if we talk about music, in every country the teachers have their own way of education and you might dislike it.


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## Nate Miller

I hope you realize that no instruction program can turn you into a musician. You have to practice, and you actually have to do the hard work for yourself. 

You know what I would do? I would find the best local teacher you can, take lessons, and block out all your free time to practice. That's how you learn to play.

There's no "program" or "school" or phone apps. You can't throw money at it. You have to do it and all you need is a piano and thousands of hours of time

I see many hours of 2 handed scales in your future if you really have the stones to be a piano player

good luck, and find a good teacher where you are and save your money


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## Luchesi

Nate Miller said:


> I hope you realize that no instruction program can turn you into a musician. You have to practice, and you actually have to do the hard work for yourself.
> 
> You know what I would do? I would find the best local teacher you can, take lessons, and block out all your free time to practice. That's how you learn to play.
> 
> There's no "program" or "school" or phone apps. You can't throw money at it. You have to do it and all you need is a piano and thousands of hours of time
> 
> I see many hours of 2 handed scales in your future if you really have the stones to be a piano player
> 
> good luck, and find a good teacher where you are and save your money


Yes, Glenn Gould said that he could teach a person to play like he did in one afternoon. What did he mean by that? I think one thing he meant was that there's so little to teach, and the rest is appropriate approaches by the brain (your idea of what music is and knowing the fundamentals from the physics) and muscle memory, and the development of sight reading skills. How much of that can be taught during piano lessons? (even though I think they're so important)?

I've taught children and adult beginners piano since the 1970s and I've thought long and deeply about how some folks will continue on and play for the rest of their life, but most will not continue to advance or even continue playing.

If I remember, you're a jazz improviser etc., and I'd like to know how you would teach beginning piano. Could we teach your approach in this TC forum? I could start people off here with probably what Gould would offer them.. And of course in-person a student will be impressed by a teacher's playing. So, there's that aspect for those kinds of students.

The problem is if you're not going to stick with it for years, it will be an interesting episode of your life, but it will fade..

There is the most basic approach which works for some adults who don't especially like the teaching relationship. You get the song sheets of 20 songs that you really admire and won't get tired of. Then you learn these 20 songs on your own while learning how to build chords. After that you wade into some simple, but tricky/clever classical pieces etc. It's always important to have something to fall back on that you already feel comfortable with, because learning to play is a journey of breakthroughs and mistakes and pitfalls, and eventually, effortless playing.


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## Nate Miller

Luchesi said:


> If I remember, you're a jazz improviser etc., and I'd like to know how you would teach beginning piano. Could we teach your approach in this TC forum? I could start people off here with probably what Gould would offer them.. And of course in person a student will be impressed by a teacher's playing. So, there's that aspect for those kinds of students.
> 
> The problem is if you're not going to stick with it for years, it will be an interesting episode of your life, but it will fade..


funny you should ask, because right now I'm teaching myself piano. For my money, the first thing to work on is chords, scales, and arpeggios. 

is practicing scales fun? of course not. I know from playing instruments all my life that there is no way around it. For a beginner you have to give them something they can have fun with so that they can see the reason for practicing all those chords and scales

but for me, its chords, scales, and arpeggios in 1 key a day, the next day another key. ( the 'Eating the Elephant one bite at a time' principle)

after that I will play something. I have some piano music around the house and I'll work though some things that are hard for me to play.

then after working through some of that, I just play. I improvise with the material from whatever I piece I was working with. 

the thing is that I am only needing to learn how to operate the instrument. I already know music. A true beginner has to learn music as well as the instrument all at the same time.

but you are absolutely right that if you dont keep playing, and for years, you'll never get there. I always believed that the true gift of music has nothing to do with how well you play, but that music enriches your life every day.

as a guitar player, being able to experience Beethoven first hand at the keyboard has been one of the most exciting experiences I've had in years. I feel like a kid, really, that excited. Even if it is just the Bagatelles for now. THAT is why I put in all that time playing 2 handed scales and arpeggios


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## Enthalpy

A half-solution to the availability of the instrument for hours a day is to *buy an electronic keyboard*. "Half-solution" because the behaviour of the keys isn't exactly like a piano, and because the range is usually smaller.

Music schools can be cost-free, for instance in Germany, and living here isn't quite expensive. It depends on the city. Saarbrücken is cheap, München or Frankfurt are expensive. But don't expect any flexibility from German music schools: if no intensive course is planned, they won't organize one.

I feel uncomfortable about *"seriously learn classical piano" and "1-8 months"*. A PhD proves that you can learn. But music is much more difficult than science and technology (I belong to both worlds) and it demands huge practice, which isn't the same as intellectual learning. Imagine that you find the finger force and concentration to practice for 3h/day (not at the beginning), after 6 months you might (or not) have the level of a future professional who practices 1h/day over 18 months as a child (as a teen it's much more). That is, you'll be able to play beginner's pieces.

Then comes the *age*, sorry for that. You learn languages, maths, engineering... faster with 30 years than with 6. For music it's not that clear. Violin at good amateur level is impossible to begin with 30, piano is apparently the same, as I know of no professional who started late. Did you play an other instrument as a child? A second instrument can be started late.

Are you *talented* for music? I suppose the piano would be your first instrument. Unless you're a Gipsy or a Jew, nobody can tell before you try. Without talent, no hope to become a musician, practicing is necessary but doesn't suffice. That's hard, unjust, call it as you want, but it's the reality. If you're a scientist, your chances improve: for unknown reasons, the same people tend to be gifted for both science and music.

"I've always wanted to learn *piano*" so your choice looks firm. The bad news are: we have too many pianists, they find no opportunity to play in groups and even less in public, even as amateurs. Plus, pianists must start learning as children. The oboe can be started later, the bassoon too, and these instruments are much in demand, with a general level far more accessible. The trombone maybe too. The level for piano and violin is just unmanageable.

"The courses/instruction would need to be in *English*": I wouldn't worry about that. You learn a music instrument much by imitation, and the vocabulary is limited. Again, music is a different kind of capability, essentially for movement, rather than intellectual understanding. "Intermediate in Spanish" will suffice I guess. Maybe you can afford a private teacher 1h/day and an accommodation in Mexico or Argentina?

The private teacher option is a very real possibility I believe. Most musicians are badly under-employed, pianists more so. The pianist of a symphonic orchestra is needed there from time to time, piano concerts are rare, pianists live from teaching like so many musicians do. If a pianist teaches at a school that closes during Summer (mind the hemisphere), he might be happy to give daily lessons to you.


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