# Favorite Vickers Recording



## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

I think most people agree Jon Vickers was one of the greatest tenors ever.

What's your favorite recording, that he's on?

I've seen his Otello DVD, and that has to be my favorite. His collapse, from lover to miserable wreck, is just titanic. And Renata Scotto, the rather aging Desdemona, knew exactly what she was about and played her role to the hilt.

I've seen his Norma DVD too, and although it's wonderful, he's not my favorite Pollione. The problem with this DVD is that if you only listen to it, as opposed to watching, it becomes clear that Norma and Adalgisa - Caballe and Veasey - are not on the same page! (Well, that wasn't something I noticed when I watched. Probably some picked up on that immediately.)

I thought his Troyens recording kind of unremarkable. Or at least I thought his part in it was unremarkable.

His Don Carlo I thought he sang well, but his supporting cast in that weren't memorable, at least to me. It's not a Don Carlo I go back to again and again, not by any means.

Well? Your thoughts?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

guythegreg said:


> I think most people agree Jon Vickers was one of the greatest tenors ever.
> 
> What's your favorite recording, that he's on?
> 
> ...


I don't regard him as highly as you do,but he was very dramatic and his "Fidelio" was famous.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I don't regard him so highly, either, but my favorite recording is his rendition of Peter Grimes.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

His Tristan and Siegmund are in a class few, if any, can match.


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## TrevBus (Jun 6, 2013)

Never really cared for him but I do agree on 'Peter Grimes'.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Yes, I'm in the Peter Grimes camp. But I do find him the most brutal Peter Grimes out. I like my Grimes with a little ambiguity.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seigmund in Walkure is incomparable. So is his Florestan in Fidelio and his Otello.
I have not heard his Tristan but it is very highly rated.
The Grimes is an astonishing performance, disliked by the composer, but admired by most other people.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

To the best of my knowledge I've only got one recording featuring Vickers, from back in the early 60s as Saint-Saens's Samson (bit of a tongue twister, that...), where he was generally commended for his performance, even for his French diction.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

schigolch said:


> I don't regard him so highly, either, but my favorite recording is his rendition of Peter Grimes.


I saw Peter Grimes once and didn't much like it, but maybe if I try his version I'll become a convert.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Rangstrom said:


> His Tristan and Siegmund are in a class few, if any, can match.


So I'll have to become a Wagner fan, eh? Well, it'll be a Tristan version I haven't tried yet, who knows ...


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yes, I'm in the Peter Grimes camp. But I do find him the most brutal Peter Grimes out. I like my Grimes with a little ambiguity.


So Grimes is your favorite Vickers, but Vickers is not your favorite Grimes? Sounds like you don't really regard Vickers so highly either...


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Seigmund in Walkure is incomparable. So is his Florestan in Fidelio and his Otello.
> I have not heard his Tristan but it is very highly rated.
> The Grimes is an astonishing performance, disliked by the composer, but admired by most other people.


Well, that's the phrase I was looking for ... "an astonishing performance" ... now i HAVE to see it!


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

elgars ghost said:


> To the best of my knowledge I've only got one recording featuring Vickers, from back in the early 60s as Saint-Saens's Samson (bit of a tongue twister, that...), where he was generally commended for his performance, even for his French diction.


Huh! Seems we don't have any real Vickers fans here!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

guythegreg said:


> Huh! Seems we don't have any real Vickers fans here!


Oh yes, DavidA certainly is.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

moody said:


> Oh yes, DavidA certainly is.


Yes, I am. But his voice is unusual so I can see why people don't like him. But for me his characterisations are incomparable. His Florestan is IMO the greatest ever. But, as ever, such things are subjective.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

I just found this thread. I have followed Vickers career all my life and was lucky to see him perform all his greatest roles. He brought a new dimension to all of his roles. He specialised in tortured character roles, outsiders. His Canio was scary, one actually believed he was about to muder Nedda. His Florestan was and still is the best I ever saw - no one has ever sung the opening scene of Act 2 "Gott! Welch' dunkel hier" the way he did , with the collosal power on the word "Gott" - I saw him sing it with Karajan which was superb, but the best was conducted by Reggie Goodall - truly magnificent. Reggie also conducted him in Parsifal which is burned in my memory. His outburst in Act 2 after being kissed by Kundry is mind bending. When he sings "Erloser, rette mich!" It Is almost heart stopping. His final scene "nur eine waffe taugt" has never been surpassed. I consider his Parsifal the best.
His Tristan( which I saw many times) was unsurpassable, the intensity, power, sensibility and pathos that he reached in act 3 was a miracle. He was the best of all time and I include Melchior among his competitors.
His Siegmund was also marvellous. 
Then we turn to all the Verdi he sang ,with Otello at the top of the list - I have seen many sing the role but never with the jealousy bordering on insanity that drove his characterisation on. There have been others with maybe a stronger top voice, but no one has conveyed the whole gamut of emotions from joy to rage to despair as well as he did. There is a wonderful DVD from the MET 1978 with Scotto and McNeil that puts all others in the shade. 
Add Radames in Aida, Riccardo in Ballo, Don Alvaro in Forza, Don Carlo in the ground breaking 1958 Covent Garden production (I saw him do it years later in Vienna - still great). 
The two Samsons, Handel and Saint Saens - the Saint-Saens with Shirley Verrett on DVD is another great performance.
The Trojans was a magnificent achievement - it is a difficult opera for most people at first. I saw the 1972 production at Covent Garden, which was much better than the recording he made. He was too tired while making that recording and he is not at his best.
There were other roles but his lasting achievement that can still be appreciated by today's generation is Peter Grimes.
The Philips recording is great, but the DVD of the, then new, Covent Garden production, has never been bettered. I have seen many portray Grimes, including Pears, but no one has ever shown the alienation of the character and what drives him to his ultimate destruction the way JV has. The production itself is just as fresh today as it was over 20 years ago.
What have I forgotten - a lot, but I am sure that I will post again on this thread.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

It's good to see someone else loves Vickers as I do! Possibly even more. I've got that Otello and it is a wonderful piece of work. Hard to imagine Otello being done better, although I know many prefer Domingo or others in the role. Vickers' fall was just titanic. And Scotto's desperation was raw. I do prefer other Iagos - I actually prefer someone else in any role I've ever seen or heard MacNeil in - but I couldn't say who.

And you're so lucky to have realized how wonderful opera is early enough to see classic performances! My biggest regret - really, my only regret in life - is that I didn't become an opera fan at 3, run away from home at 12, and start going to the Met. I would have seen Domingo, Scotto, Sutherland, Horne, Milnes, Plishka, Battle, Troyanos, Cotrubas (did she ever sing at the Met?) and so many others, all in or near their prime. Ah, what a fool I've been. Too soon old, too late smart!


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## Oreb (Aug 8, 2013)

What a great, great artist.

I hesitate to call this my favourite Vickers recording, because there are so many wonderful ones. But Parsifal may well be my favourite opera, and this is my favourite recording of it. He is flawless in bringing out, successively, the naivety, anguish and finally mature enlightenment. Not bad for a few hours work


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

guythegreg said:


> Cotrubas (did she ever sing at the Met?)


She sang at the MET from 1977 to 1987 in 52 performances and then returned in 1996 for Levine's gala.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Oreb said:


> What a great, great artist.
> 
> I hesitate to call this my favourite Vickers recording, because there are so many wonderful ones. But Parsifal may well be my favourite opera, and this is my favourite recording of it. He is flawless in bringing out, successively, the naivety, anguish and finally mature enlightenment. Not bad for a few hours work


I've never heard it and you know, I love Parsifal! Gotta move this up the todo list so it's closer to the top, eh?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Fidelio, Karajan, EMI...............


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Fidelio, Karajan, EMI...............


I know it's perverse but I have that and don't listen to it. I cannot get away from Mattila's performance for James Levine, with Rene Pape and Matthew Polenzani and I don't even care who played Florestan. Strange, I know.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

guythegreg said:


> I know it's perverse but I have that and don't listen to it. I cannot get away from Mattila's performance for James Levine, with Rene Pape and Matthew Polenzani and I don't even care who played Florestan. Strange, I know.


I remember when that production was new, in 2000, many critics and fans complained about it -- basically, they said it was too modern and that the lighting in Act II was too dark. I saw the telecast and loved it! Incidentally, Ben Heppner is the Florestan.

I will admit, though, that it's become pretty commonplace to see updated _Fidelio_s. What would be really unusual now is to see one set in Beethoven's time.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> I remember when that production was new, in 2000, many critics and fans complained about it -- basically, they said it was too modern and that the lighting in Act II was too dark. I saw the telecast and loved it! Incidentally, Ben Heppner is the Florestan.
> 
> I will admit, though, that it's become pretty commonplace to see updated _Fidelio_s. What would be really unusual now is to see one set in Beethoven's time.


Ah, you DREAMER!! lol


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> ...


...erm, not a Parsifal fan? :lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

guythegreg said:


> ...erm, not a Parsifal fan? :lol:


Some titillation for those in the know, and not so. 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/movies/2013/03/parsing-parsifal.html


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