# The Romantic Vivaldi



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Which Composer of the Romantic Era reminds you most of Vivaldi? In particular the Four Seasons. Specific works would be helpful. For me, Mendelssohn and Paganini come the closest. Both with their Violin Concertos. But am interested in hearing what others say on this topic.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Legnani maybe, who knows? I am not usually reminded of baroque music by romantic composers!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Legnani maybe, who knows? I am not usually reminded of baroque music by romantic composers!


I see your point. But I think Vivaldi is a little more Romantic than most Baroque Composers. That's just my feel when I listen to the Four Seasons. Very atmospheric. Something I think some of the Romantic Composers were also known for while being melodic. Romantic Era is very diverse imo. Which is why I thought I would get some interesting answers.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Maybe this wouldn't be such a farfetched idea if it was titled "The Romantic Mozart".


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

One composer who I can see influence of Baroque and pre-Baroque polyphonic styles is Richard Wagner. His dense, contrapuntal layers of leitmotif and many many layers of countermelodic ideas are a dead giveaway that he's done lots and lots of studying of that style of early music.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

The Beethoven-J.S.Bach connection is very obvious.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Perhaps also Grieg, to some extent, especially of course the Holberg Suite.


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

Try this Dvorak


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

For me Niccolò Paganini would be the most Vivaldi-like of the romantics. It's that incessant rapid scraping on the strings.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

When I was younger I used to find it easy to put together Bizet, Verdi, and Tchaikovsky, with Vivaldi in a certain sense.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> Which Composer of the Romantic Era reminds you most of Vivaldi? In particular the Four Seasons. Specific works would be helpful. For me, Mendelssohn and Paganini come the closest. Both with their Violin Concertos. But am interested in hearing what others say on this topic.


The late Baroque in Italy was a much different beastie than the same period in Austria/Germany. Tartini was not a fan of Vivaldi's music, but his own music sounds/feels like a connecting link to Paganini's - especially the latter's chamber music.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Uh, begging your pardon in advance, but...

http://www.talkclassical.com/24269-im-over-vivaldi.html


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Uh, begging your pardon in advance, but...
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/24269-im-over-vivaldi.html


Dude, that is totally like *three months* ago.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Uh, begging your pardon in advance, but...
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/24269-im-over-vivaldi.html


Dude, that is *totally* like three months ago.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Uh, begging your pardon in advance, but...
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/24269-im-over-vivaldi.html


Notice I only mentioned his Four Seasons. They are quite different from the rest of his work. I don't listen to much Vivaldi outside of the Four Seasons. I think he is a one hit wonder but I'd still like to find pieces similar to that in the Romantic Era. Maybe the greatest one hit wonder ever. And you are off topic. This isn't about me. Thanks for those support the discussion and don't disrupt it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Notice I only mentioned his Four Seasons. They are quite different from the rest of his work. I don't listen to much Vivaldi outside of the Four Seasons. I think he is a one hit wonder but I'd still like to find pieces similar to that in the Romantic Era. Maybe the greatest one hit wonder ever. And you are off topic. This isn't about me. Thanks for those support the discussion and don't disrupt it.


A failed romance, and the next being the romance on the rebound, are not good, or fair, or satisfactory to either party.

People are going to literally have to grasp at straws to pluck something from the repertoire to match your construct of associations in this request.

Handel, if you can get into opera and vocal music, is one of the most deeply expressive composers who ever composed anything, imho.

You've got, from me and others, a rather extensive list of neoclassical repertoire, which is in actuality almost wholly neobaroque, not neoclassical, and along with those the few "looking back" Hommage works like Tchaikovsky's serenade, Grieg's Holberg suite, etc.

There is only ONE four seasons by Vivaldi, just as there is only one Beethoven symphony no. 9. and I think you will really just have to accept that.

The far-stretch tangential set of associations you have put forth are also, even if a bit understood, highly idiosyncratic to you as an individual, so near impossible to second guess to come up with anything which might meet your request.

You're asking, imho, of people to participate in a near random guessing game, in hope that maybe some suggestion or other, without really knowing what will satisfy you, will hit the mark.


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> One composer who I can see influence of Baroque and pre-Baroque polyphonic styles is Richard Wagner. His dense, contrapuntal layers of leitmotif and many many layers of countermelodic ideas are a dead giveaway that he's done lots and lots of studying of that style of early music.


The Early Romantics, led by Mendelssohn, Schumann, and Chopin, were far more influenced by Bach than Beethoven, or the Baroque instead of Classicism; Chopin stands to be the first major composer who was very critical of Beethoven. It was only untill later; Wagner and Brahms, where the influence of Beethoven could be felt in Romanticism. But it seems that the Baroque Style, at least some parts of it, seem to be very imbedded into the early Romantic style.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> The late Baroque in Italy was a much different beastie than the same period in Austria/Germany. *Tartini was not a fan of Vivaldi's music*, but his own music sounds/feels like a connecting link to Paganini's - especially the latter's chamber music.


I thought it was only Vivaldi's vocal music, that Tartini wasn't fond of. Am I mistaken?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> A failed romance, and the next being the romance on the rebound, are not good, or fair, or satisfactory to either party.
> 
> People are going to literally have to grasp at straws to pluck something from the repertoire to match your construct of associations in this request.
> 
> ...


It's really not that hard. Just look for Vivaldi type characteristics. Forget the form as it is obviously all Romantic form. Characteristics such as light, melodic, atmospheric, and Violin oriented are some of those characteristics.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Characteristics such as light, melodic, atmospheric, and Violin oriented are some of those characteristics.


Sounds like a description for the mood music category, sorry.

"Romantic," even light, etc. is very much at odds with "Baroque."

Mendelssohn, you've noticed, is very much a classicist often enough, lightness, clarity, being prime traits.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Mendelssohn, you've noticed, is very much a classicist often enough, lightness, clarity, being prime traits.


Whilst this may be somewhat true of his early period, the evocative and structurally liberal nature of Mendelssohn's late works place him pretty firmly as one of the leading figures of Romanticism.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Skilmarilion said:


> Whilst this may be somewhat true of his early period, the evocative and structurally liberal nature of Mendelssohn's late works place him pretty firmly as one of the leading figures of Romanticism.


Sigh, I thought 'often enough' covered it.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I still think Paganini is the one most similar to Vivaldi. Mendelssohn to a lesser degree. Both excelled with the Violin and wrote some lighter Romantic music. Dvorak, Grieg, and Tchaikovsky have their moments as well. Obviously Bruckner and Mahler are about the farthest away from Vivaldi of the Romantic Era. Wagner as well.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Vaneyes said:


> I thought it was only Vivaldi's vocal music, that Tartini wasn't fond of. Am I mistaken?


Dunno. There may have been a general annoyance with The Red Priest imagery which extended to his music. I read those jacket notes some time back, the details have faded. Maybe I'll try Googling on "Tartini vs Vivaldi".


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