# Something I've noticed. Am I alone in noticing this?



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I love browsing cds, even if I am never going to buy any of the ones I'm looking at, and one thing I've noticed, that No one ever packages Beethovens Symphonies in a different order, always 1,3, 2,4 6,8, etc. I was wondering, what's wrong with 1,2,3,4 or, going completely crazy in symphony order? Is it length of cd that prevents it or just practicality? This seems to be across the board when dealing with any large cycle of something.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

I think it has to do with the fact that you want to get as much music on as few CDs as possible, and so you group symphonies so that the time adds up as well as possible.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I haven't noticed but I would have to say it's the length, as well.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Length is an issue, definitely.

But with things like Bach's cello suites, I've noticed sometimes on these 2 disc sets with all the 6 suites, they either do them in sequential order or mix things around.

I think this has to do with what the makers of the disc & of course the musician/s decide is best to showcase that particular recording/performance. There are probably reasons we don't know why they choose to sometimes mix up the order, in other words. Eg. what is good as an opener on the set, what works in the middle, and what is good to finish off. That kind of thing, a bit like a concert program, etc...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Some have managed it - Weingartner plus Zinman and Chailly, as I recall. I'm assuming the duration of the 'Eroica' is at the root of it - if a performance is teetering on the 50 minute mark then it virtually rules out the possibility of the 4th (which often takes over 30 minutes) being its twin on the same disc. Come to think of it, I think there was also a disc of von Karajan's accounts of 3 and 4 that were just about shoehorned onto one disc but I can't recall which cycle it was from. I have his 60s cycle in a box set and 3 and 4 were paired with 1 and 2 respectively on that occasion.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Whether or not a recording has the repeats, or what repeats they include and omit, can also be an issue with what's coupled with what, etc...


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Some have managed it - Weingartner plus Zinman and Chailly, as I recall. I'm assuming the duration of the 'Eroica' is at the root of it - if a performance is teetering on the 50 minute mark then it virtually rules out the possibility of the 4th (which often takes over 30 minutes) being its twin on the same disc. Come to think of it, I think there was also a disc of von Karajan's accounts of 3 and 4 that were just about shoehorned onto one disc but I can't recall which cycle it was from. I have his 60s cycle in a box set and 3 and 4 were paired with 1 and 2 respectively on that occasion.


Yes, I have it (1962), 81:16.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

When TT wasn't an issue, and when business was better, more popular works in a series were often 
split up to sell additional CDs.

Sometimes companies would be extra obnoxious, and release 40-minute CDs.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks for the confirmation, Vaneyes - I remember that Mehta's Mahler 2 on Decca is of similar threshold-breaking length so it shows it can be done.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Vaneyes said:


> ...
> 
> Sometimes companies would be extra obnoxious, and release 40-minute CDs.


That happens sometimes now but not often. But when cd's came out in the 1980's, it was more common for them to do that. They were stuck in the mindframe of the limitations of the vinyl LP, I think, etc...


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Thanks for the confirmation, Vaneyes - I remember that Mehta's Mahler 2 on Decca is of similar threshold-breaking length so it shows it can be done.


I don't have them--Thielemann Bruckner 5 (DG) 82:31, and Mehta Mahler 2 (Decca) 81:14.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Sid James said:


> That happens sometimes now but not often. But when cd's came out in the 1980's, it was more common for them to do that. They were stuck in the mindframe of the limitations of the vinyl LP, I think, etc...


No, it was greed. Ozawa Dutilleux The Shadows of Time, 20-something minutes. A few DG Pogorelich under 50.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Not exactly on-topic, but related- sometimes a strict numerical sequencing beggars common-sense. An example of this is the [really, otherwise excellent] Rachmaninoff Three Symphonies set by Ormandy-Philadelphia (originally on Columbia). The play order is: disc one, Symphony 1 and half of Symphony 2... disc two, the other half of Symphony 2 and Symphony 3. Couldn't they just have placed Symphony 2 on one disc, and pair 1 & 3 to one another?! NOoooo...


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

The box set of Beethoven symphonies I have is ordered like this: CD1: symphonies one and two; CD2: symphonies three and four; CD3: symphonies five and six; CD4: symphonies seven and eight; CD5 symphony nine.










Each CD is under 80 minutes in length.

I also have one of HvK's cycles on LP, but I got it for two bucks at a second hand shop and it's missing no. 8. Oh well it's not that much of a loss really.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

My box goes: 1, 6 - 2, 5 - 3, 8 - 4, 7 - 9


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