# The Bach Boys - JC and CPE



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Okay, so these two wrote a LOT of stuff:

JC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Johann_Christian_Bach

CPE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Carl_Philipp_Emanuel_Bach

So if you had to assemble a "starter kit" for each, what four or five pieces best represent their output? To narrow it down a bit, I'm looking more for secular instrumental genres like symphony, concerto, chamber music, solo piano/harpsichord, etc.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I know some of the music of CPE, so I will say:

Magnificat, Wq 215 (I know you said secular genres, but IMO this piece is worth listening to)
Four Symphonies, Wq 183
Cello Concerto in A minor, Wq 170
Wurttemberg Sonatas, Wq 49 
Flute concerto in D Minor, Wq 22


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

CPE Bach 
Sonatas & Rondos played by Pletnev






Solo Flute Sonatas played by Jed Wentz
Vol 1 of the Keyboard Concerti played by Miklos Spanyi or if you prefer modern grand:
Any of the 5 CDs of the Piano Concertos recorded by Michael Rische






The Hamburger Sinfonien by the Freiburger Barockorchester






Any of the Cello Concerti


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

JC Bach
Piano Concerto in F Minor played by See Siang Wong (One of his best!)






Quartet in B flat Major (Unbelievably beautiful.)






Symphony in G Minor (Almost Mozart)






Sonatas for Two Pianos






Oboe Concerto in F Major (For that beautiful singing style that was such an influence on Mozart.)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

You mean the Bach Brothers? 
Here's something interesting:



hammeredklavier said:


> This part of Beethoven Piano Sonata No.7 1st Movement has always reminded me of "Quantus tremor" from Christian Bach's Missa da Requiem.
> Have a listen:
> 
> *[ 0:44 ]*
> ...


The polyphony in this piece is masterful, even more memorable than the "Sicut erat in principio" from Emanuel's magnificat, (which is said to have been modelled on their father's B minor mass, which Emanuel conducted sometime in a charity concert in 1786, along with his own work)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

a typical, gorgeous slow movement by Emanuel:














reminds me of a Mozart church sonata:





sounds a bit "Romantic" at 1:22 ~ 1:40 :


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## CarlHaydn284 (Jul 12, 2020)

CPE BACH’s masterpieces are his 
1. Flute concerto in d minor
2. Prussian sonatas
3. Cello concerto 
4. Symphonies 


JC BACH masterpieces are nothing


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I like the counterpoint in this:





reminds me a bit of Mozart's 40th : 2:36





the finale is a banger : 6:49 





Emanuel famously wrote "my (CPE Bach's) own feelings" on the score of this:





expressive woodwind writing at 0:56


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Also don't forget the eldest Brother, who is more "capricious" in feel:


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Olias said:


> *The Bach Boys - JC and CPE
> *
> Okay, so these two wrote a LOT of stuff:
> 
> ...


CPE, JC, JCF, WF .... I'm musing that we're only a single letter E away from another great group with a varied ouevre of works to their name -- namely *The Beach Boys*.

I'll nominate "Good Vibrations".

Which sort of covers The Bach Boys as well.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I agree that WF, in spite of being apprently favoured by JS, isn't in the same league of interest. I got the Brilliant box of more or less complete works, but in spite of a few interesting pieces, I culled it. there's a lot of dullness there, the innovative aspect seems overrated, and I have fewer, selected works by him now (a bit orchestral + some works played on piano).

Some good suggestions so far, regarding CPE and JC. For instance, the Pletnev CPE piano works is indeed very good. Markovina is good too, but her huge box would mostly be for completists, I think.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Anyone here heard this?









Or this?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is my favourite piece of music by CPE Bach -






WF Bach is a bit too rococo to interest me much personally, the 12 polonaises are the most interesting thing I've found, given my tastes. I especially like this performance of the E flat minor polonaise


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

The best of WF Bach (to me):

The Polonaises played on Fortepiano by Robert Hill






Or on Spotify:






The Fantasias played by Antony Spiri. The Fantasia in C Minor is especially beautiful.











The Duetto for Two Harpsichords is one of WF Bach's Masterpieces:






His unfinished Trio for Two Flutes F. 49 is quite beautiful:






There's a recording of it on CBS done by Isaac Stern in which the opening bars of the unfinished second movement are included. The melody might be one of the loveliest WF Bach composed-if only he had finished it.

The final movement WF Bach's Piano Concerto in D Major is a real barn stormer showcasing his sense of humor (rare in WF Bach's music):






I also have the Brilliant Classics set of WF Bach's complete solo keyboard music. Unfortunately, Astronio's random decision to perform all of it on harpsichord (because he thinks WF didn't own a piano) doesn't do the music any favors. If find that WF Bach's Piano Sonatas are more interesting than CPE Bach's and are far more successful performed on a fortepiano or modern piano:






Lastly, WF Bach's Suite for Keyboard FK nv24 is a seldom performed and lovely gem.






Or here:






The Sarabande, which I play on the piano from time to time, is full of a heartfelt grief that the harpsichord just doesn't really capture in my opinion. There's a recording of it on piano by Helene Salome.

https://www.amazon.com/Klavierwerke...m+friedemann+bach+piano&qid=1604414520&sr=8-9


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

CarlHaydn284 said:


> CPE BACH's masterpieces are his
> 1. Flute concerto in d minor
> 2. Prussian sonatas
> 3. Cello concerto
> ...


Ouch, a bit harsh I think but okay. Personally, I'm really enjoying JC's Oboe Concerto and Symphony in G Minor Op.6 a lot as recommended earlier.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

To me, CPE's most interesting and enjoyable output is his four Wq 183 symphonies, and JC's is his wind concerti, of which I know six (2 each for traverso, oboe, and bassoon). That's about two CDs of music for CPE and two for JC. I have Koopman/Amsterdam Baroque for CPE and Anthony Halstead/Hanover Band for JC.


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## CarlHaydn284 (Jul 12, 2020)

Olias said:


> Ouch, a bit harsh I think but okay. Personally, I'm really enjoying JC's Oboe Concerto and Symphony in G Minor Op.6 a lot as recommended earlier.


Try his quintet in F major. Sublime! Maybe a master piece. His g minor symphony is nice too. Cant say I've listened to the oboe concerto


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

And JCF Bach. I'm not going to pretend he is an underestimated or major talent, but he nonetheless wrote some fine music that could hold its own among contemporaries. He was considered the finest keyboardist among the four composing sons of Bach who also claimed that he was best at performing their father's music. He followed Mozart and Haydn and tried to infuse their innovations into his own music. I like him for that. He strikes me as a very congenial and open-minded man-or at least I get that impression listening to his music.

These Sonatas for Fortepiano and Traverso are quite strong and, in my opinion, are superior to CPE Bach's in terms of the independence given to the two instruments.






And then there's this astonishing piano concerto:






Which, apart from CPE Bach, early Mozart and possibly Haydn, offers one of the finest piano concertos of that era. The final movement is as full of humor, sunshine and gaiety as you could possibly ask.

You can find another concerto of his performed on a concert grand here:






And here:


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

How are all you tasteless cretins disregarding PDQ Bach, who is arguably the most talented and innovative of them all?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> How are all you tasteless cretins disregarding PDQ Bach, who is arguably the most talented and innovative of them all?


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


>


:lol: This is one of the greatest things Ive ever see. Made my day!:lol:


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Would it be more admiring of _The Bach Boys_ to make a pop cover album with their best pose, or to refrain? I'm more tempted towards the former.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Christian wrote these while he was under Emanuel's tutelage in Berlin in the 1750s:
















hammeredklavier said:


> With Christian Bach though, I find the polyphony in sequentia della messa (1757) to be one of the most striking of its kind in the later half of the 18th century.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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