# Women singing male arias?



## emmagould (Feb 7, 2013)

What do you think of women singing traditionally male arias? I'm a mezzo, and I really want to sing Wolfram's aria from Tannhauser (O du mein holder Abendstern), which was obviously written for a baritone. However, the range and tessitura are perfect for my voice (an octave higher, of course) and the words are easily applicable to a woman, since Wolfram is singing an ode to the evening star. I wouldn't be singing it for an audition or anything--just a informal voice recital. What are your thoughts on this? Is it so bad for a woman to sing male solos, particularly male arias from grand opera?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

emmagould said:


> What do you think of women singing traditionally male arias? I'm a mezzo, and I really want to sing Wolfram's aria from Tannhauser (O du mein holder Abendstern), which was obviously written for a baritone. However, the range and tessitura are perfect for my voice (an octave higher, of course) and the words are easily applicable to a woman, since Wolfram is singing an ode to the evening star. I wouldn't be singing it for an audition or anything--just a informal voice recital. What are your thoughts on this? Is it so bad for a woman to sing male solos, particularly male arias from grand opera?


All of Mahler's songs (aside from parts of Das Lied) were written with a male voice in mind, but they are often performed by women, which can give them a different meaning, especially in the Kindertotenlieder. I don't see a reason not to sing something that you feel fits your range, even if you don't have the exact intended voice type.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

As a semi-educated layperson and unfanatical Wagner fan, I don't see a problem with it (provided it's sung extremely well of course). And as one who has sat through a goodly number of voice recitals, it could make an intrigiuing change of pace, given in the proper spirit and atmosphere.

Over the holidays, I was at a rehearsal for Handel's Messiah where the supremely accomplished contralto sang not only her own arias but those of the tenor, whose plane was delayed.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I think, as long as you don't play Wolfram in an actual production of the opera, it should be fine.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I think, as long as you don't play Wolfram in an actual production of the opera, it should be fine.


What would be wrong with that? :3 Gender-swapped Ring.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

There would be *a lot* wrong with that (and I hope no European opera stage director is reading this forum, he might get ideas).


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There would be *a lot* wrong with that (and I hope no European opera stage director is reading this forum, he might get ideas).


Enlighten me?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, just imagine Wotan singing soprano or a Siegfried-girl dealing anvil-splitting blows with her sword while also singing soprano (and what with all the "sons" in the libretti, changing them to "daughters" would not always be feasible) and you will be enlightened.

Wagner's heroes are true men and true women, and that's the beauty of them.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Well, just imagine Wotan singing soprano or a Siegfried-girl dealing anvil-splitting blows with her sword while also singing soprano (and what with all the "sons" in the libretti, changing them to "daughters" would not always be feasible) and you will be enlightened.
> 
> Wagner's heroes are true men and true women, and that's the beauty of them.


What do you mean by true men and true women? o_o


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Men who are strong, courageous and loving and women who are faithful to the grave and beyond, of course.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I personally kind of enjoy listening to women singing men's parts and vice versa. It gives everything a whole new sound. Of course I'm thinking more from the perspective of standalone arias or songs here, for an entire opera I think it's typically better to stick to the defined roles.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Some of the comments here I find "Sexist". Lol.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There would be *a lot* wrong with that (and I hope no European opera stage director is reading this forum, he might get ideas).


Historically, it was very common for men to play women's roles. Obviously I don't like the misogyny of it, but it seemed to work for them for a long time,


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There would be *a lot* wrong with that (and I hope no European opera stage director is reading this forum, he might get ideas).


hehe, I actually hope for the contrary. Nice way to mix things up a bit. Courageous women and faithful men :tiphat: what's wrong with that?!


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

I have a real problem with performances of Messiah where the Alto sings the Bass solos. Usually The People Who Walked in Darkness.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Men who are strong, courageous and loving and women who are faithful to the grave and beyond, of course.


Where do I even begin with whats wrong with this?

Well first, women can be strong and courageous and loving, and men can be faithful and loyal in spades, and that doesn't make them any less "true" than other women and men.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Oh yes, women can be courageous and men can be faithful, but if you read Wagner's libretti, you will see there are plenty of reasons a girl can not play the part of "the world's greatest hero". And no, I am not interested in discussing gender as a social stereotype and other politically correct rubbish.

Now in case some European director is reading this forum and getting perverted ideas, I will give him advice that, I think, Wagner would agree with: go compose your own opera and leave his works alone. After all, did not Wagner say: "Kinder, schafft Neues" ("Children, make something new")?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> And no, I am not interested in discussing gender as a social stereotype and other politically correct rubbish.


fair enough, but how about gender in theatre/arts in general? As a form of expression, not as a political statement? I don't know, I find gender play very interesting. Remember _L'Incoronazione di Poppea_ where men can very well play female roles and women can play male roles? A hoot, imo. You might say Wagner isn't Monteverdi, but I think the oeuvre of a guy who was so pivotal in the reinvention of what opera can be and in pushing the boundaries in music in general (and who was very fond of silk robes, mind) can very well incorporate gender play.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Maybe in case of Italian opera such a change would go easier on the eyes and ears, but most of Wagner's heroes, especially those of the Ring, are such manly men and womanly women, both physically and in their inner world, that swapping their sex would seem almost like a sacrilege. But then I am very conservative as concerns opera anyway, and this would be just one more Regietheater staging to avoid. And as I said before, I think it would be better if the people in the opera world concentrated their efforts on producing another work equal to the Ring (if that is humanly possible  ) instead of inventing new ways of twisting the intent of the long dead master.


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