# Baroque bows - how do they compare?



## Ingélou

I play classical, baroque & folk music with my teacher, who's brilliant at all types of music, though he doesn't come down to my level easily - not a good limbo dancer  ! He loves baroque most, though, & some of his other pupils have got baroque bows. I tried his out & found it very manoeuvrable but the sound a bit thin. I wonder if any violinists on the forum have experience of both baroque & modern bows & could give me the benefit of their experience?
Thank you.


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## Taggart

There's a nice discussion about Baroque violin in general at http://www.themonteverdiviolins.org/baroque-violin.html

Hope that helps.:tiphat:


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## Ingélou

I decided not to buy a baroque bow because I'm just not good enough (yet?) to justify the expense. So I bought a cheap fibre glass bow in a three-quarter length, and though it doesn't sound as sweet as my 'best' bow (actually my cheapest), the three quarter is so light and manoeuvrable. It's great for folk tunes & playford, and it's also good for trying out new pieces so I don't have to worry about wobble. So - sorted, for the time being.


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## Ingélou

A year later, I've changed my mind. I have now decided to take advantage of the fact that my fiddle teacher is an accomplished performer of baroque music & try to learn as much from him as I can, given my age and other disadvantages. So I am letting him order me a baroque bow on my behalf, as he says that I will find the special 'spoon-shaped' baroque bow strokes much easier with this shape of bow. I will tell you, world, how I get on - not that I suppose it will interest you much!


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## Ukko

Matter of fact, your experience-to-come does interest me, in particular the double-stop factor, both ease of and avoidance of.


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## Ingélou

Double stops are my Achilles heel when I'm playing folk fiddle, and obviously they're a big part of baroque harmonies, so I'm certainly hoping that the baroque-design bow will help me. You've hit the nail on the head, Ukko! :cheers:


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## Ukko

Ingélou said:


> Double stops are my Achilles heel when I'm playing folk fiddle, and obviously they're a big part of baroque harmonies, so I'm certainly hoping that the baroque-design bow will help me. You've hit the nail on the head, Ukko! :cheers:


Double-stops are a big part of bluegrass fiddle too. I have read that the Hardanger fiddle, because of the shallow arc of its bridge, is difficult to play without inadvertent double-stopping. Makes me wonder if a shallower-than-standard arc bridge has ever been used on a 'standard' violin to modify double-stop ability. [I wonder about a lot of things, some of which I used to know.]


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## Taggart

1 is Baroque 2 is modern. Taken from Monteverdi Violins where there is some discussion of Baroque violins.










A Hardanger bridge is equally flat.


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## Ukko

The Hardanger link takes me to a non-existent page.

So... the modern bridge + modern bow must help avoid inadvertent double-stops, eh? And make deliberate double-stops require more precise bow positioning.

_Another_ thing I read somewhere was about adjusting the bow's string tension. Seems like there is even a modification to allow adjustment while playing. _Ingelou_, you need to ask your teacher about that.


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## Ingélou

The Hardanger link takes me to the Hardanger Association of America - wonder what's wrong? (Oh, sorry - I see now that Taggart fixed it since you posted. )

Yes, I do loosen my bow when attempting tunes with double stops in. The trick to doing them is to imagine that you're bowing on an imaginary string in between the two strings you're bowing together. But judging by the terrible noise I make, I have no imagination... 

Both my teachers have tried to help me with double stops. But I remain a challenging pupil.


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## Ingélou

The odd thing is that when you start, or in my case return to, playing the violin, at first you have a hard time bowing on a string without hitting the one above and below it. Then you get used to bowing a single string, and can't double-stop on the others to save your life.


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## Aurelian

*Bach fugue*

Anybody tried Bach's monstrous C Major solo violin fugue with the curved bow he intended?


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## Ingélou

Interesting to find out; from my experience with 'Beau Noir' so far, the harmonies and tapering off would be a lot easier with a baroque bow. So far, so good, though it's not as light for lifting as I'd hoped.


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## Taplow

Hello, dear Ingélou ...

I am on the verge of taking the step to purchase a baroque bow. I've found a really nice one (with an equally nice price tag) that was made by a master german achetier in the first half of the 20th century. No cheap Chinese snakewood bows for me! The bow has a proper, though not high, convex curve on it and the classic pike's-head tip, suggesting a Corelli-Tartini style Italian sonata form. It weighs 56 grams, and at 695mm is a little shorter than your average full-size modern bow.

I have a modern bow that was around 55 grams, and I did like it, but the balance was a bit off. I had some work done on it and now that bow weighs about 61 grams. I've been playing around a bit with that on baroque pieces up to now.

I am curious to know what your experience has been in the passing of the years. Do you still have your baroque bow? Do you still use it? How does it play for you? Any caveats you can give me before I take the plunge?

Though it would not be my most expensive bow, it is still quite an investment. And I want to be sure I am not doing something too silly. Anyone else with experience of playing with a baroque bow is welcome to chime in.

(I'll be playing a French violin from around 1820, but I'm thinking of putting some gut strings on it.)


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## Ingélou

I still have my baroque bow and I still use it when I am playing baroque music - most recently when with my fiddle teacher I worked through Thistle & Minuet, a book of Scottish tunes from the eighteenth century both baroque & traditional. He says it makes a much better sound. I also used it when I was playing in public as it was an amulet against bow wobble due to nerves. 

However, I still do find it harder to lift for retakes - as you need to do often in baroque music - and less wieldy in general. Besides, I am now concentrating on folk/traditional music from Scotland, Ireland & England. For several years I used a three quarter bow, and I have now downsized yet again to a half-sized carbon fibre bow. I like its sound and I like its manoeuvrability. 

I am pleased to have my baroque bow - it came in useful in 2016 when I went to a baroque-music summer school - and I am pleased to have had the experience of it. I don't think if it had been a more expensive bow that I would have tried it at all, or that my use of it would have justified the expense. 

But then - in the final analysis - I am a fiddler not a violinist, and that is where my heart lies. 

In your case, it all depends on how much you play baroque music and how much you like it. It certainly does help to produce the right sound for that. 

Do let me know what you decide, and if you go for it, how you get on. :tiphat:


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## Taplow

Well, I put in an offer on the bow, which has been accepted! So in a week or so I should have it in hand and be able to give you an update. However, it may need rehairing before I can really put it through its paces.

Thanks for your response.


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## Ingélou

I look forward to hearing about it. In particular the curved design makes it better to produce the swelling and tapering off that is characteristic of notes in baroque music - my fiddle teacher calls them 'spoon-shaped notes', and any note that doesn't change like that was called 'a dead note' by a baroque cellist who taught us at the summer school. And the curved design also helps chords, including on three strings. 

Happy playing! :tiphat:


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## Taplow

Ingélou said:


> And the curved design also helps chords, including on three strings.


Quite a bit of that in the Corelli sonatas I've been working on.  :cheers:


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## Musicaterina

I'm still a beginner playing the tenor viol, and I've got a borrowed instrument and a bow with a frog with a screw, but with a pointed tip, like a baroque bow. But at a musical instrument fair (part of the Tage alter Musik ("Days of old music")) in Herne, Germany, I have tested some baroque bows with a clip-in frog. Somehow I felt better with the bows with the clip-in frog. Also I like it better when the bow is made of European wood instead of tropical wood because of the transport route. This is quite often the case in baroque bows.


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