# Here goes nothing...(String Quartet attempt)



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

Any (constructive) criticism would be nice. I know I should work on the ending. And I have about 6 or 7 different versions of my 2nd movement. I'm stuck on it.


----------



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

O...kay. I guess the file was too large? Any idea how I can properly upload this Finale file?


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

You can't upload a finale file to your post. Try to upload it to soundcloud or Youtube,
( I mean the audio/video file)


----------



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

__
https://soundcloud.com/omoksha%2Fstring-quartet

Okay, should work. Thanks :|


----------



## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Very nice! I'm loving your style. It seems like you have a lot talent, and I really looking forward to hearing how you grow . At what point in your musical education are you? Have you just started composing, or have you been studying for a while? I'd be delighted to provide you with some learning materials that you might find beneficial.

So, some criticisms. It feels a little unbalanced overall. Sometimes it seems like it moves through ideas too quickly and sometimes it feels like it's dragging on. I can't really offer any advice on how to improve this other than to keep composing and keep listening to your favorite composers.

So this first section you have going. It's up to you, but I think it might benefit from some dynamic variation.

*0:04 - 0:09*: Firstly, harmonically this feels a little weird. It seems like you're trying to emphasize being on the dominant, but using the leading tone (G#) for this proves a little weak without at least an E to back it up. I'd recommend changing these to Es instead of G#s. There are quite a few problems of this nature in your work. Have you studied much counterpoint? I'd recommend a book called "Counterpoint in Composition" by Salzer and Schachter.

If I could give you some advice to really make your harmonies sing better, it would be to ensure that you always utilize every note in the chord that you're currently in, unless you're trying to be ambiguous or trying to achieve a "special effect". So, you start in A major on the tonic, so you'd want to make sure that you more often than not have A, C# and E playing at all times during this chord. (For instance, if you had the cellos playing A, the violas playing A, and the violins both playing E, you'd probably want to change either the viola or the second violin to a C# to make it sing better)

I should also clarify what I mean by "special effects". I'd consider 0:24 to 0:27 a special effect, where you're trying to achieve a lighter tone. So just to be clear, I'm not suggesting you sacrifice the light tone there in favor of having fuller harmonies. You'll need to make your own judgments for where this guideline applies and where it doesn't.

*0:04 - 0:09*: Secondly, it's far too repetitive. I understand what you're trying to do, but I think you could do it better. If you want to do it so literally, the way you're currently doing it, I recommend you limit it to three repetitions at most, any more and it starts to get monotonous. It begs for either some rhythmic variation or dynamic variation (add a diminuendo or change one of the eight notes to two sixteenth notes, or a triplet etc, just to keep things interesting).

I assume you're writing in sonata form? With this type of piece, it's unusual to have the first and second themes in the same key. Usually, the second theme would either be in the dominant or the relative minor (or relative major if in a minor key), and then it would be transposed to the tonic when played in the recapitulation. It's ultimately up to you what you want to do, but this method is used to provide variation and keep things interesting. If you haven't already, I'd recommend checking out a book called "Classical forms" by William E. Caplin, it's a wonderful book that talks all about the intricacies of the forms that Mozart, Beethoven and Haydn would have used.

*2:20 - 2:33*: Again, far too repetitive and monotonous, in my opinion. I found it boring. Maybe after the third repeat, you could make the next repeat consist of 6 eighth notes instead of 3 quarter notes?

*3:10*: The rests around here are far too long. I'd strongly recommend getting rid of the extra empty bars. It would sound much more balance with 3 beat rests instead of 7 beat rests.

*3:24 - 3:34*: This passage sounds excellent, but I think there might be technical issues with it. I'm not a string player, so perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong on this, but, unfortunately, I think this pizzicato passage would be far too difficult to play at tempo. Again, I'm not 100% sure.

*3:43*: This transition sounds a little weird to me. I can't exactly figure out why though.

*3:43 - 4:00*: Again, a little monotonous. Not nearly as bad as the other two passages I mentioned though. This might sound acceptable when played by a real string quartet.

*4:28 - 4:33*: The idea behind this passage is beautiful, but I don't think your execution does it justice. It sounds far too messy. I beg you rewrite it, taking more care with the harmonies.

I'll be frank, I hate the ending.

I very much look forward to hearing your future efforts!


----------



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed review! I know there was a lot of editing still needed in this, but it's always nice to have a second listens give me tips.

In college, I was a piano performance major, so composition was a side-passion (so-to-speak), which the theory professor would help me with here and there. I'm only at a junior level, scholastically.

As for my first movement, I am, too, by my 2nd theme's timidity...I know sonata form, but I suppose the stream-of-consciousness didn't help me here at all. I tried for D Major, but it obviously did not resonance anything but A Major throughout. As for my development, the transition is definitely awkward arriving and departing, I just got stuck. Seeing as how you are someone who prefers the same style of writing as I, I will definitely take these tips to mind when editing. And thank you for giving me a few books for which to look!


----------



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

Sigh...typing on a phone never works out. Meant to say a second listener, and that I am, too, bothered by my 2nd theme. -_- And resonate. Next time I'll stick with the computer.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The sounds were a granite wall barrier to my getting any further than one and a half bars into your piece.

There is no reason on earth for anyone, including the young composer, to work with or tolerate listening to such ghastly synth sound - not even for one second.

Anyone doing any kind of music Can Not afford to work _with_ those sounds.


----------



## omoksha (Aug 31, 2012)

You're certainly right, maestro. So, your solution would be...?


----------



## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

omoksha said:


> Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed review! I know there was a lot of editing still needed in this, but it's always nice to have a second listens give me tips.
> 
> In college, I was a piano performance major, so composition was a side-passion (so-to-speak), which the theory professor would help me with here and there. I'm only at a junior level, scholastically.
> 
> As for my first movement, I am, too, by my 2nd theme's timidity...I know sonata form, but I suppose the stream-of-consciousness didn't help me here at all. I tried for D Major, but it obviously did not resonance anything but A Major throughout. As for my development, the transition is definitely awkward arriving and departing, I just got stuck. Seeing as how you are someone who prefers the same style of writing as I, I will definitely take these tips to mind when editing. And thank you for giving me a few books for which to look!


I'll paste some links I posted in another thread:



> If you don't already have basic music theory knowledge, you can watch this Yale course: http://videolectures.net/yalemusi112f08_listening_music/
> Then, I recommend you pick and choose some lectures by this guy: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/professors/professor_detail.aspx?pid=3
> Once you felt you've listened to enough of those, check out Leonard Bernstein's Unanswered Question series:
> 
> ...


EDIT: Sorry, the links should work now.


----------



## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I read the comments first, then listened, so allow me to take Steven's detailed review as a starting point.



StevenOBrien said:


> *0:04 - 0:09*: Firstly, harmonically this feels a little weird. It seems like you're trying to emphasize being on the dominant, but using the leading tone (G#) for this proves a little weak without at least an E to back it up. I'd recommend changing these to Es instead of G#s. There are quite a few problems of this nature in your work.


I agree that there are mostly technical issues in the work, nut-and-bolts counterpoint issues mostly, although some of the harmony is odd as well I have yet to see it convincingly dealt with in the same way. I don't know whether I actually agree with this particular quibble, but I would take the time, if you want of course, to study counterpoint. I would always recommend Fux, but I am not as well read as others and have few comparisons to make.



StevenOBrien said:


> I assume you're writing in sonata form? With this type of piece, it's unusual to have the first and second themes in the same key. Usually, the second theme would either be in the dominant or the relative minor (or relative major if in a minor key), and then it would be transposed to the tonic when played in the recapitulation. It's ultimately up to you what you want to do, but this method is used to provide variation and keep things interesting. If you haven't already, I'd recommend checking out a book called "Classical forms" by William E. Caplin, it's a wonderful book that talks all about the intricacies of the forms that Mozart, Beethoven and Haydn would have used.


You say you were headed for D and implied the overall key of A. This is the issue. Keys like the subdominant and relative minor (don't know what examples Steven is thinking of when he says this is a standard secondary key in sonata form, but I would be fairly sure they're well after Beethoven) is that they reduce tension. The dominant and other "sharpy" keys increase it. Now, certain Romantic composers, Schubert at least I believe, did use the subdominant in the exposition however this was a new conception of form, where the opening tonic section was quite dramatic and so the modulation provides relaxation. Your piece does not start out like that, and a dominant modulation would have provided the said contrast, while the subdominant has little effect. It might also have broken the overall effect - perhaps a mediant relation would be better? - but that can actually heighten it in a paradoxical way. Anyway, that's the subdominant issue.



StevenOBrien said:


> *3:43*: This transition sounds a little weird to me. I can't exactly figure out why though.


I strongly suspect there is an issue with an implied tritone; check out your D's and G sharps in this section, and beware of this relation in a contrapuntal setting. I could be wrong of course.

I was fine with the ending.

Overall I agree with Steven, and would suggest working on the counterpoint, the harmony should take care of itself as you seem to have a good imagination for it. I would just remain critical, and try to tolerate little. Something doesn't have to be smooth, but I would allow something to pass if you're not sure it is emotionally congruous - if you're worried about technicalities it is a bad sign for the passage however. Good work overall!


----------



## OldKen (Aug 9, 2012)

Wow! A lot of negative stuff in the crit. Plus some very positive and detailed advice. I think I am at the same stage of trying to get on top of string quartet composition. I started fairly complacently but have to acknowledge the huge difficulty of producing something which works for me and says that I am on the right road. I have produced a piece called, rather imaginatively, _Study for String Quartet_ and if I could obtain a fraction of the advice given to Omoksha I would count myself very lucky.

The piece is at

__
https://soundcloud.com/
.

Thanks in anticipation,

OldKen


----------



## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

OldKen said:


> Wow! A lot of negative stuff in the crit. Plus some very positive and detailed advice. I think I am at the same stage of trying to get on top of string quartet composition. I started fairly complacently but have to acknowledge the huge difficulty of producing something which works for me and says that I am on the right road. I have produced a piece called, rather imaginatively, _Study for String Quartet_ and if I could obtain a fraction of the advice given to Omoksha I would count myself very lucky.
> 
> The piece is at
> 
> ...


Ah, this link works 

I like it as always. I like the melody and the way it is handled, and I also like the way it starts out in major and quite cheerful, and also the way it ends. The only thing is that I felt that perhaps the middle section (in the tonic minor yes?) could have been more of a contrast. Perhaps a greater emphasis on the relative major (of the tonic minor) in the middle of the middle section would have achieved this - the last part has an emphasis on the tonic minor (again I am assuming this is the key it ends in) which it has to for the ending to work - and the relative major would help establish the tonic minor as a separate entity from the tonic major. But the whole thing works how it is anyway - and I could be completely wrong in my tonal guessings anyway. Good work!


----------



## OldKen (Aug 9, 2012)

Yes - You are correct in your criticism of the form of the piece. The centre movement should have been in the relative minor rather than the tonic minor. But, when written I needed to concentrate on what, for me, is the much more difficult aspect of the composition - a feeling of wholeness.This is the closest I have come to achieving that.

But I do appreciate your observations. They are always helpful and indicate that you have listened to the piece carefully and critically. That's worth a great deal.

Best wishes,

OldKen


----------

