# pupils vs teachers?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

I said to my dad who do you preffer* William Byrd *or* Thomas Tallis*, he said he did knew william Byrd but to him Tallis was a nobody... so i said to him hmm well he is his teacher, whiteout Tallis they would not be william Byrd.

What can i says i like both but i preffer Tallis over Byrd, but than again let's stay democratic if he says Byrd better for him i can't argue whit it, since taste are base on opinion therefore non argumental.

But i maintain Tallis greater than Byrd , in the English master league of renaissance.

What about other case of teacher and pupils *perotin* and *leonin*, should we vs em, nope we should ain't it would be sarilgeous.

*Pomponio Nenna* VS *Carlo Gesualdo*, Pomponio was a hypotetical music teacher of Gesualdo from what i read they share a same chromatism(there music).

Have a nice day folks :tiphat:


----------



## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

sometimes it's difficult to answer. Let's take these pairs: *Salieri vs Beethoven* - some might say it's definite here, but if one listens to Salieri's works they are great and not even from second league.
*Mahler vs Bruckner* , in this pair it's difficult to vs them
*JS Bach vs Buxtehude* - of course the latter wasn't a direct teacher of Bach , but it's well-known Bach learned from his playing, etc
*C. Franck vs Chausson or Duparc*, here IMO definitely Franck is a Teacher and is greater than his pupils
*Liszt vs Czerny vs Salieri* - well, Czerny was his piano teacher, so probably we can't compare them as composers, but Liszt vs Salieri ?
*Satie vs Poulenc* ? not obvious teacher/pupil but still ...
*JS Bach vs CPE Bach*? ( father vs son as well)

*Tchaikovsky vs Taneev*? who is for Tchaikovsky? 
*Taneev vs Rachmaninoff,* at least much better known is Rachmaninoff
*Monteverdi vs Schütz *
*Giovanni Gabrieli vs Schütz* (Schütz considered only Gabrieli as a teacher, but anyway Monteverdi influenced him as well)
and another teacher - pupil is *Orlando de Lassus vs Gabrieli*

may be the list is to be continued if one will dig up, but at least it's what is left from my history of music classes :lol:


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

In the last year, I've come to like the music of both *Berg* and *Webern* more than that of their teacher *Schoenberg*. This was not always the case, but the more I listen, the more I feel that they were more consistently inspired.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

As a sometime teacher (albeit not of music) myself, I can assure you that some of my students will surpass me someday. That's life, and it's a good thing.

Tallis v. Byrd is a fun debate. IMO, Byrd has nothing to match _Spem in Alium_, but excepting that one work I find Byrd more consistently wonderful.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn must have had his hands full with the young, precocious Beethoven as his pupil.

There is an appealing peasant-like, masculine, rustic quality that they both share in their music.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I wonder how these student/teacher relationships really went. My go (baduk) teacher told me about one world champion (Cho Hunhyun) who taught another world champion (Yi Changho) and the lessons consisted of playing one game a year. I guess that helped. I wouldn't have paid much for it....


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

isorhythm said:


> In the last year, I've come to like the music of both *Berg* and *Webern* more than that of their teacher *Schoenberg*. This was not always the case, but the more I listen, the more I feel that they were more consistently inspired.


My thoughts ended up going in the opposite direction. I used to prefer Berg and Webern, but I think their teacher was overall the composer with greater range and expressive freedom.


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

science said:


> Tallis v. Byrd is a fun debate. IMO, Byrd has nothing to match _Spem in Alium_, but excepting that one work I find Byrd more consistently wonderful.


Tallis has a darkness and weirdness that Byrd usually doesn't, IMO, giving him a slight edge for me. They're both favorites though.

I would say Tallis' Lamentations are on the same level as Spem in alium.

Another student/teacher thing: I prefer *Messiaen* to all of his students that I can think of.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Binchois vs Ockeghem vs Josquin

My vote goes to Ockeghem. Josquin'd probably win the poll though.


----------



## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Haydn must have had his hands full with the young, precocious Beethoven as his pupil.
> 
> There is an appealing peasant-like, masculine, rustic quality that they both share in their music.


Agreed. I think Beethoven was in denial about how much Haydn really influenced him. I feel they have many, many things in common.


----------

