# Getting their names right!!!



## SalieriIsInnocent

We all know that some composers have some hard names to pronounce. I had the hardest of times pronouncing Liszt's name. So if everyone would pop in a composer/singer/conductor with the correct pronunciation it would help me or anybody else.

_Ex_ Bach - Bock


----------



## KaerbEmEvig

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> We all know that some composers have some hard names to pronounce. I had the hardest of times pronouncing Liszt's name. So if everyone would pop in a composer/singer/conductor with the correct pronunciation it would help me or anybody else.


Um, you just need to know that in Hungarian "sz" stands for "s" (the sound behind the letter "s" is pronounced almost exactly the same throughout the whole Europe) and vice versa, and thus the word that is pronounced almost the same as his surname is the English word "list".



> _Ex_ Bach - Bock


Do you mean that this is the correct pronunciation? It is not. It may be how English speaking people say it but it is far from the correct way.

Bach: *b*all, f*a*ther, *H*ussain.


----------



## Aramis

Many people pronounce Berlioz in french manner - Berlio or something. It's not the east side of the west side... NOT IT'S NOT! It's not the west side of the east side... NOT IT'S NOT! It's a BERLIOZ... I am correct! Pronounce it as you write it since it's orgin is not french.


----------



## World Violist

I once heard an American radio host maul "Daphnis et Chloé"... said something like "Daphnis and Klo." just ridiculous. That's right, just ignore the accent at the end of Chloé...

I know that wasn't a composer's name, but hey, it's still mispronounced regularly.

Oh, and how does one properly pronounce Debussy's name? some people say "DeBUSsy," and some say "DEbussy," and still others say "debusSY." Sorry to seem an ignoramus in this regard, but inquiring minds probably want to know.


----------



## mueske

World Violist said:


> I once heard an American radio host maul "Daphnis et Chloé"... said something like "Daphnis and Klo." just ridiculous. That's right, just ignore the accent at the end of Chloé...
> 
> I know that wasn't a composer's name, but hey, it's still mispronounced regularly.
> 
> Oh, and how does one properly pronounce Debussy's name? some people say "DeBUSsy," and some say "DEbussy," and still others say "debusSY." Sorry to seem an ignoramus in this regard, but inquiring minds probably want to know.


Just let it roll of your tongue, no emphasis on any part of it.

I'm looking into the Berlioz thing, can't seem to find where his name originated from...


----------



## Aramis

> I'm looking into the Berlioz thing, can't seem to find where his name originated from...


Germany. He told me himself.


----------



## mueske

Aramis said:


> Germany. He told me himself.


Oh, then I'll gladly believe you!


----------



## Weston

World Violist said:


> Oh, and how does one properly pronounce Debussy's name? some people say "DeBUSsy," and some say "DEbussy," and still others say "debusSY." Sorry to seem an ignoramus in this regard, but inquiring minds probably want to know.


I was going to ask this very question. I once heard a very erudite host pronounce it DEbussy, but with an ever so slight hint of an "r" sound after the "e" -- not quite DE(r)bussy, but the vowel was somewhere between "eh," "ih," and "uh." Very hard for American English speakers to pronounce (unless they're from Quebec, I guess).

I am also very curious why Ralph Vaughan-Williams is pronounced like "Rafe."

I'm not even going to attempt Poulenc.


----------



## TresPicos

Weston said:


> I was going to ask this very question. I once heard a very erudite host pronounce it DEbussy, but with an ever so slight hint of an "r" sound after the "e" -- not quite DE(r)bussy, but the vowel was somewhere between "eh," "ih," and "uh." Very hard for American English speakers to pronounce (unless they're from Quebec, I guess).
> 
> I am also very curious why Ralph Vaughan-Williams is pronounced like "Rafe."
> 
> I'm not even going to attempt Poulenc.


I think "Rafe" is the proper pronounciation of "Ralph" in the UK. Like "Rafe" Fiennes. 

Poulenc = Poo-LANG-k (where the "lang" sounds like the last name of k d lang) or Poo-LANC (with "lanc" from Burt Lancaster).


----------



## Polednice

Bach - as somebody said, it should be pronounced with the German 'ch' sound at the end. Thus, the 'b' and the following vowel should sound like the *bar* in *bark*, but the ch (without an equivalent in standard English) is a sound at the back of the throat.

Berlioz - *bear - lee - oze*, if I'm not mistaken. The first syllable sounding exactly like the animal. I have no idea from where this name originates, though, if it is from Germany (which I don't doubt, I'm just not sure), then it clearly falls outside standard German pronunciation, or it would be said: bear - lee - ots.

Debussy - If in doubt about the stresses in French words, work from the two general rules that 1) French stresses should sound much less significant than they are in Germanic languages - try to make them equal; and 2) the primary stress should come on the _penultimate_ syllable (i.e. 'bus'). Of course, given the French 'u' sound, this renders the name *duh - BOO - see* (rather than the 'u' in 'bus'; and the 'de' is rightly 'duh', not 'day').

Vaughan-Williams's first name, Ralph, is pronounced 'Rafe' simply because it is a (typically middle/upper-class) English pronunciation of the name. No doubt, it began to become bastardised into 'ralf' when the Americans seized the language! 

Poulenc - *poo - lonk* - no need for further explanation on this one I hope!

I think that should be a fair contribution for now!


----------



## TresPicos

World Violist said:


> I once heard an American radio host maul "Daphnis et Chloé"... said something like "Daphnis and Klo." just ridiculous. That's right, just ignore the accent at the end of Chloé...
> 
> I know that wasn't a composer's name, but hey, it's still mispronounced regularly.
> 
> Oh, and how does one properly pronounce Debussy's name? some people say "DeBUSsy," and some say "DEbussy," and still others say "debusSY." Sorry to seem an ignoramus in this regard, but inquiring minds probably want to know.


Deh-byou-SEE, where "eh" in Deh is like the vowel sound in "first". The middle part is not English-compatible, but a quick "you" is okay.

Well, I think you can get away with a Deh-beh-SEE or Deh-b'-SEE). 

And the primary stress is, of course, on the LAST syllable, like (almost) always in French.


----------



## TresPicos

KaerbEmEvig said:


> Do you mean that this is the correct pronunciation? It is not. It may be how English speaking people say it but it is far from the correct way.
> 
> Bach: *b*all, f*a*ther, *H*ussain.


I would rather say b*a*ll, r*u*n, *H*ussain.

Here we go: http://www.wordnik.com/words/Bach/pronunciations

But I think English-speaking people should make the "a" sound a little longer than it actually is, in order not to confuse other English-speaking people who think Bach is pronounced "baak".


----------



## emiellucifuge

Tchaikovsky is actually pronounced ch - ee - kov - ski

Shostakovich may be pronounced - Sha - sta - ko - vich
Because there is no Umlaut on the first o, though the grammatic rules in russian are unclear.


----------



## Aramis

emiellucifuge said:


> Tchaikovsky is actually pronounced ch - ee - kov - sk


Noooooooooooooooooo!

His name comes from a bird Czajka, you pronounce it like "Tchaika", not "Cheeika".



> Shostakovich may be pronounced - Sha - sta - ko - vich


Another mistake. Sho-, not Sha-.


----------



## TresPicos

Aramis said:


> Noooooooooooooooooo!
> 
> His name comes from a bird Czajka, you pronounce it like "Tchaika", not "Cheeika".
> 
> Another mistake. Sho-, not Sha-.


Yep.

Tchaikovsky: Chai (child minus "ld") - KOV (like cough, but more V than F) - skee (like "ski" in skiing)

Shostakovich: Shoh (shot minus "t") - stuh (like stuff minus "ff") - COAH (like core minus "re") - vitch (like witch but with V instead of W). The "Sho" should really not be a "show". The third syllable ("-ko-") could be substituted with the "co" sound in "co-pilot", if needed.


----------



## Argus

A hard one for me is Smetana. I used to pronounce it as it was written Smet - ah - na, rhyming with banana, but most people say it like Smet - en - er.

Another one would be Pachelbel. I used to say it like Pash - el - bell like the place in France, Passchendaele, but now think it's more like Pac - o - bel.

Another would be Fucik. Or the first time I heard someone say Dvorak I didn't have a clue who they meant. I thought D'borjack, who the hells that.

And not a composer but I always say tremolo as trem - o - low, like I would expect an Italian word to sound, rather than trem - el - low. Probably because I learnt the word in books before I heard the word said. Don't even start on acciaccaturas.

It's become a trend to overpronounce names like Bach. I always hear posh people say Bockk like they're hocking up some phlegm. Same with van Gogh.


----------



## Weston

Argus said:


> Another one would be Pachelbel. I used to say it like Pash - el - bell like the place in France, Passchendaele, but now think it's more like Pac - o - bel.


My ex used to call it Taco Bell's Canon.


----------



## Aramis

Argus said:


> A hard one for me is Smetana. I used to pronounce it as it was written Smet - ah - na, rhyming with banana, but most people say it like Smet - en - er.


You pronouncted it correctly.


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> A hard one for me is Smetana. I used to pronounce it as it was written Smet - ah - na, rhyming with banana, but most people say it like Smet - en - er.
> 
> Another one would be Pachelbel. I used to say it like Pash - el - bell like the place in France, Passchendaele, but now think it's more like Pac - o - bel.
> 
> Another would be Fucik. Or the first time I heard someone say Dvorak I didn't have a clue who they meant. I thought D'borjack, who the hells that.
> 
> And not a composer but I always say tremolo as trem - o - low, like I would expect an Italian word to sound, rather than trem - el - low. Probably because I learnt the word in books before I heard the word said. Don't even start on acciaccaturas.
> 
> It's become a trend to overpronounce names like Bach. I always hear posh people say Bockk like they're hocking up some phlegm. Same with van Gogh.


Smetana sounds like Smeh-tah-nah, so it does rhyme with banana, sound-wise. When it comes to the stress, I've usually heard it with fairly equally divided stress on the three (short) syllables, or with stress on the first syllable. Here is Wikipedia's opinion, though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Cs-Bedrich_Smetana.ogg

Pachelbel is a tricky one. Since he was German, it ought to be pronounced PAHH-el-bell, with the same sound as in "Bach" or "Achtung", but I think the usual English pronunciation is PUCK-el-bell. The stress is usually on the first syllable (yeah, like "Taco Bell"), but Puh-KELL-bell doesn't seem to be wrong either.

Fucik should be pronounced "Foot-chic". Dvorak should be "D'voh-shuck", if you're not Czech...

TREM-o-low is fine. Acciaccaturas should be ah-chuck-ah-toorahs.

In Dutch or in Posh, van Gogh should be something like "fan Hhohh", but you'll more likely to be understood with "fan Gogg" or "van Gogg".


----------



## Argus

Aramis said:


> You pronouncted it correctly.


I thought so. It just sounded more Czech as Smet - ah - na but English people seem to like to pronounce names of composers in a Germanic way.

How about Janacek?

I'm just glad there aren't more famous Polish composers. It's like they are trying win some kind of human name game of Scrabble by using as many z's, j's and w's as possible. Extra points' for using y's instead of vowels.

The Brit's need a composer called Cholmondeley or Mainwaring to truly confuse foreigners.


----------



## Argus

TresPicos said:


> Smetana sounds like Smeh-tah-nah, so it does rhyme with banana, sound-wise. When it comes to the stress, I've usually heard it with fairly equally divided stress on the three (short) syllables, or with stress on the first syllable. Here is Wikipedia's opinion, though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Cs-Bedrich_Smetana.ogg
> 
> Pachelbel is a tricky one. Since he was German, it ought to be pronounced PAHH-el-bell, with the same sound as in "Bach" or "Achtung", but I think the usual English pronunciation is PUCK-el-bell. The stress is usually on the first syllable (yeah, like "Taco Bell"), but Puh-KELL-bell doesn't seem to be wrong either.
> 
> Fucik should be pronounced "Foot-chic". Dvorak should be "D'voh-shuck", if you're not Czech...
> 
> TREM-o-low is fine. Acciaccaturas should be ah-chuck-ah-toorahs.
> 
> In Dutch or in Posh, van Gogh should be something like "fan Hhohh", but you'll more likely to be understood with "fan Gogg" or "van Gogg".


I actually searched for a piece by 'Smettener', thinking he was a composer I'd not yet heard, before realising the DJ had pronounced it differently/incorrectly.

I've never heard Dvorak pronounced like you say. I always hear a jh sound instead of a sh and a b instead of a v.

I thought Fucik was pronounced like you say but have yet to hear any one pronounce it the same way twice. Foo - chick makes sense but DJ's seem to say Foo - seck.

It's mainly guitarists who say trem - el -low as the 'whammy bar' found on Stratocasters or Floyd Rose equipped guitars was labelled wrongly as at its inception as a 'tremolo arm' even though it's used more for vibrato.

Van Gogh I have heard pronounced many differents ways. van Goff, van go, van gock, van hock, van gow etc.

Another one that seems to have changed over years is Hercules. It used to be pronounced Heracles but seems to be pronounced more logically these days.


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> I thought so. It just sounded more Czech as Smet - ah - na but English people seem to like to pronounce names of composers in a Germanic way.
> 
> How about Janacek?
> 
> I'm just glad there aren't more famous Polish composers. It's like they are trying win some kind of human name game of Scrabble by using as many z's, j's and w's as possible. Extra points' for using y's instead of vowels.
> 
> The Brit's need a composer called Cholmondeley or Mainwaring to truly confuse foreigners.


YAH-nah-check.

Lou-toe-SWAVV-skee, Pen-deh-RETT-skee and Seaman-OV-skee? I like it when a seemingly innocent L becomes a W, while the W is really a V.


----------



## Aramis

Argus said:


> How about Janacek?


Ya-NA-cek? Difficult to write how "c" should be pronounced, so I won't try to replace it with some "ts" or something else.



> I'm just glad there aren't more famous Polish composers. It's like they are trying win some kind of human name game of Scrabble by using as many z's, j's and w's as possible. Extra points' for using y's instead of vowels.


I can't think of really many of those with "sz" or "cz" combined together. In fact it's enought to learn to pronounce russian surnames - the difference is that russian ones are transcribed straight from cyrillic alphabet to english, so they are written in nglish way. If you would have them written with western letters you wouldn't see any difference between polish and russian names, they both use the same group of sounds. Well, except ę and ą, but I know only once composer with ę (Zarębski).


----------



## Aramis

> Seaman-OV-skee?


Mistake in the beginning: not sea- (like see), rather shi-. It's not totally good, but there is no other way to write it better. If pronouncing Szymanowski etc. fascinates you I could record the correct pronouncements and upload them at soundclould.


----------



## TresPicos

Argus said:


> I actually searched for a piece by 'Smettener', thinking he was a composer I'd not yet heard, before realising the DJ had pronounced it differently/incorrectly.
> 
> I've never heard Dvorak pronounced like you say. I always hear a jh sound instead of a sh and a b instead of a v.
> 
> I thought Fucik was pronounced like you say but have yet to hear any one pronounce it the same way twice. Foo - chick makes sense but DJ's seem to say Foo - seck.


Well, the "r" in Dvorak is impossible for non-Czechs to get right, I've heard, it should be something between a "r" and a "sh". Maybe that's what you mean with "jh". Well, here is Wikipedia again: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Cs-Antonin_Dvorak.ogg

The "c" (in Fucik) is pronounced as "ts" in many Eastern European languages, and c with some stuff on top becomes "tsh".


----------



## TresPicos

Aramis said:


> Mistake in the beginning: not sea- (like see), rather shi-. It's not totally good, but there is no other way to write it better. If pronouncing Szymanowski etc. fascinates you I could record the correct pronouncements and upload them at soundclould.


Sorry, mixup with Hungarian, there.


----------



## Il Seraglio

TresPicos said:


> Well, the "r" in Dvorak is impossible for non-Czechs to get right, I've heard, it should be something between a "r" and a "sh". Maybe that's what you mean with "jh". Well, here is Wikipedia again: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Cs-Antonin_Dvorak.ogg
> 
> The "c" (in Fucik) is pronounced as "ts" in many Eastern European languages, and c with some stuff on top becomes "tsh".


Wow, if it's not impossible then it definitely takes some ridiculous effort.

'Sibelius' is pronounced si-BAY-lee-us for anyone in doubt. Not to be confused with the pronunciation of 'Delius' which is simply DEE-lee-us.

Anybody know how to pronounce 'Süssmayr'?


----------



## Aramis

Il Seraglio said:


> Anybody know how to pronounce 'Süssmayr'?


ü is something between u and y, if you're bulging your lips forward in this part, then you're correct. The "ss" equals ß, treat it like single "s".


----------



## Il Seraglio

Aramis said:


> ü is something between u and y, if you're bulging your lips forward in this part, then you're correct. The "ss" equals ß, treat it like single "s".


It's okay... I understand that bit. I'm just not so confident with the 'mayr'.


----------



## Romantic Geek

I've never heard anyone say De - BOO - see. Gotta have the dipthong in there. It's the French way. Beeyoo (all in one syllable).


----------



## Rasa

mayr:

my -er


----------



## Polednice

Romantic Geek said:


> I've never heard anyone say De - BOO - see. Gotta have the dipthong in there. It's the French way. Beeyoo (all in one syllable).


The dipthong, I believe, should only be present in a different, almost-equivalent 'u' sound as in 'lieu'. In 'Debussy', however, the single 'u' should be pronounced as 'boo' just as you would find it in the second-person pronoun 'tu' (French 'you') - I think we can at least agree that 'tu' would never be pronounced 'teyoo' (unless by a non-native speaker!).

Of course, 'oo' is only an approximation of the French vowel sound, as it doesn't exist in English, which is why English learners of French often struggle with the pronunciation of any word that includes it.


----------



## Fsharpmajor

I believe De-boo-see is as close as you are going to get in English. My French teacher in high school, though, wouldn't let you get away with that. You need to scrunch your lips together for the "oo" to make it come out right.

I'd be interested to know what pronunciations people have heard for Varese. With the "accent grave" on the first "e," it should probably be pronounced Vah-ress. But he never gets played on the radio, so I've never heard his name spoken aloud.

Also, I've always wondered why Ralph Vaughan Williams's first name is pronounced "Raiff"--does anybody know?


----------



## TresPicos

Fsharpmajor said:


> I believe De-boo-see is correct, or as close as you are going to get in English.
> 
> I've always wondered why Ralph Vaughan Williams's first name is pronounced "Raiff"--does anybody know?


"Rafe" is the traditional British pronunciation.


----------



## Polednice

Fsharpmajor said:


> I believe De-boo-see is as close as you are going to get in English. My French teacher in high school, though, wouldn't let you get away with that. You need to scrunch your lips together for the "oo" to make it come out right.
> 
> I'd be interested to know what pronunciations people have heard for Varese. With the "accent grave" on the first "e," it should probably be pronounced Vah-ress. But he never gets played on the radio, so I've never heard his name spoken aloud.
> 
> Also, I've always wondered why Ralph Vaughan Williams's first name is pronounced "Raiff"--does anybody know?


I think the best (although still confusing!) description of how to pronounce that awkward French 'oo' (another example in German being 'uber') is to say 'oo' with your mouth shaped as though you were going to say 'y' (as in the start of 'you').

As for Varèse, with the grave accent on the first 'e', it would sound more like Vah - rez.


----------



## Romantic Geek

Polednice said:


> The dipthong, I believe, should only be present in a different, almost-equivalent 'u' sound as in 'lieu'. In 'Debussy', however, the single 'u' should be pronounced as 'boo' just as you would find it in the second-person pronoun 'tu' (French 'you') - I think we can at least agree that 'tu' would never be pronounced 'teyoo' (unless by a non-native speaker!).
> 
> Of course, 'oo' is only an approximation of the French vowel sound, as it doesn't exist in English, which is why English learners of French often struggle with the pronunciation of any word that includes it.


There is a difference though between tu and Debussy. There is another vowel before the u in Debussy. It is unnatural to say Deh-BOO-see. In the process of closing for the b, you create the dipthong. Trust me...speaker of the language here. French heritage  I'm not new to the language.

The ou actually more represents the OO sound. (vous, ou, oui, courant, beaucoup, etc.)

You don't say brun (brown in French) broon. Unless you're completely anglicizing it.


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent

_"Hey, it's that Bucket woman_"

*Hyacinth*: "_It's Bouquet"_


----------



## Romantic Geek

Wouldn't it be Hi-ya-synth?


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent

Romantic Geek said:


> Wouldn't it be Hi-ya-synth?


Correct pronunciation!


----------



## Guest

Although I am American, I did learn German and lived in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria for a few years. There are a few quirks of the German language that take some practice.

The first is umlauted letters (those two dots that appear over a, o, and u occasionally - ä ö ü). Often you will see these exchanged for the letter followed by an e - i.e. ae, oe, ue. This is helpful if you don't have a keyboard with an umlaut, and hate inserting a symbol all the time. Thus, you could spell Wilhelm Furtwängler as Wilhelm Furtwaengler (which I often do). The pronunciation roughly corresponds to the sound of those two combined letters, but not quite. They are hard to explain, easier to teach by saying - as I once learned. But one simple way is to pronounce the original letter in the very long form (in German, A would be like ah, O is long, like in Obama, U is also long, like ooh), and then raise your tongue to the top of your mouth. ä then goes from the ah to sounding more like eh. ö goes from the long o sound to something harder to explain, almost like saying the sound of the ea in Earl. The ü goes from the ooh sound to one that I'm not even sure how to describe.

Remember that the German V is pronounced like the English F, and the German W is pronounced like the English V. The German J is pronounced like the English Y when used as a consonant, as in yoga or yogurt. The German Z is pronounced like English TS together. Thus, Volkswagen is properly pronounced Folksvagen.

Ludwig van Beethoven - Lud-vig fahn Bay-toe-fen (don't make the mistake of calling him Ludwig VON Beethoven - his family was Dutch, and "van" is the Dutch equivalent of the German "von", meaning from, a title for a "landed" family).

Johann Sebastian Bach - Joh-hahn Seh-bah-stee-ahn Bah-chhhhhh! Depending on the region in Germany, the "ch" can have any number of pronunciations. Some German dialects pronounce it like a hard K, some like you are clearing your throat quietly, some like you are hocking something up (especially some of the Swiss German dialects), and some (in Eastern Germany, I believe), even pronounce it like "sh." 

Johannes Brahms - Yoh-hahn-ness Brahms

Franz Schubert - Frah-nts Shoo-bairt (ai like in "air", or like the ea in bear).

Gustav Mahler - Gooh-stahf Mah-ler

One final thing, which for the life of me, I can't find an example for - In German, the combination of the vowels E and U - EU - is pronounced like "oi" as in "boy" and "toy."

Wait, here is an example:
Bayreuth - Bye-roi-t
Bye - like saying good-bye
Also, they don't say "th" like we do in the English "the" - they pronounce it more like a very short "t." One sign of a German who has learned English very well is their ability to say "the" as "the" and not "de" or "ze" or to be able to pronounce the name "Smith" without saying "Smit" or "Smis."

Let me know if I can help with any other German names or words - and if there are any better German speakers (or actual Germans) that spotted a mistake, let me know. It has been 12 years.


----------



## TresPicos

Romantic Geek said:


> There is a difference though between tu and Debussy. There is another vowel before the u in Debussy. It is unnatural to say Deh-BOO-see. In the process of closing for the b, you create the dipthong. Trust me...speaker of the language here. French heritage  I'm not new to the language.
> 
> The ou actually more represents the OO sound. (vous, ou, oui, courant, beaucoup, etc.)
> 
> You don't say brun (brown in French) broon. Unless you're completely anglicizing it.


A pretty good mnemonic: _Deb you SEE_

Someone came up with this suggestion: "say W C really fast"


----------



## Aramis

> "van" is the Dutch equivalent of the German "von", meaning from, a title for a "landed" family


No, there is serious difference - "von" means that one has noble roots, "van" doesn't, it's just a ordinary link.


----------



## Guest

Thanks for that clarification - I'm not up much on my Dutch. But am I correct in thinking I read somewhere that it was actually added by his grandfather (or perhaps someone else further back) upon their exodus to Germany? Perhaps to make them sound more impressive?


----------



## Aramis

DrMike said:


> Thanks for that clarification - I'm not up much on my Dutch. But am I correct in thinking I read somewhere that it was actually added by his grandfather (or perhaps someone else further back) upon their exodus to Germany? Perhaps to make them sound more impressive?


Probably not, one of his ancestors, Jan van Beethoven (born in 1485) had "van" in his name before LvB's grandfather moved to Bonn from somewhere in contemporary Belgium.


----------



## mueske

Ludwig isn't pronounced in the German way, but in the Dutch way. 

No -Vig-, just say it as it is written.

Also seriously doubting the Schubert pronunciation by DrMike. Isn't his name German?


----------



## Polednice

Romantic Geek said:


> There is a difference though between tu and Debussy. There is another vowel before the u in Debussy. It is unnatural to say Deh-BOO-see. In the process of closing for the b, you create the dipthong. Trust me...speaker of the language here. French heritage  I'm not new to the language.


OK, I trust you 



Romantic Geek said:


> The ou actually more represents the OO sound. (vous, ou, oui, courant, beaucoup, etc.)
> 
> You don't say brun (brown in French) broon. Unless you're completely anglicizing it.


Indeed - without an English equivalent, it's difficult to describe quite how to describe it. I much prefer using the phonetic alphabet for things like this, but I'm assuming (maybe wrongly!) that not everyone here has a working knowledge of it!


----------



## Polednice

mueske said:


> Ludwig isn't pronounced in the German way, but in the Dutch way.
> 
> No -Vig-, just say it as it is written.
> 
> Also seriously doubting the Schubert pronunciation by DrMike. Isn't his name German?


I would have said Frants Shoo - burt.


----------



## emiellucifuge

DrMike said:


> Thanks for that clarification - I'm not up much on my Dutch. But am I correct in thinking I read somewhere that it was actually added by his grandfather (or perhaps someone else further back) upon their exodus to Germany? Perhaps to make them sound more impressive?


Beethoven once pretended that the Van meant nobility in order to get the custody battle of his nephew to a noble court.

But yes Van, does not have any noble connotations, neither does 'de' or any other dutch 'Toevoegsel

Ludvig is actually not a ducth name as the equivalent is "Lodewijk"

Lo - de- wei - k

The "ij" or "ei" is an extra letter that the dutch alphabet contains, and its very hard to explain the pronunciation.

The dutch G such as in Van Gogh is a grating back of the throat sound.

"Van (the 'a' is pronounced as the 'u' in 'shun') g (hard grating sound) o (as in top) and then gh (which is again the grating sound)

Rembrandt. The dt is an ending particle to verbs only depending on the conjugation, in this case Brandt means burning.

R is a rolling r on the tongue, em - bra (a as u again "shun") nd..

The renessaince composer Sweelinck.

the 's' should be pronounced more as a Z.
-
wee - sounds like way
-
link.

Also apologies for the false information on Tchaikovsky and SHostakovich.


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent

I used to pronounce Herbert Von Karajan's name Kare-Ra-Han. My band teacher in grade school pronounced it Ka Raj an, but I have seen several documentaries and they all say Ker-Ai-an, so I have stuck to that pronunciation. 

Oh you can show the pronunciation of Works as well as conductors.


----------



## TresPicos

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> I used to pronounce Herbert Von Karajan's name Kare-Ra-Han. My band teacher in grade school pronounced it Ka Raj an, but I have seen several documentaries and they all say Ker-Ai-an, so I have stuck to that pronunciation.
> 
> Oh you can show the pronunciation of Works as well as conductors.


It should be something like HAIR-bare-t fon KAH-rah-yan. Same "air" sound in both syllables in the first name. And same "ah" sound in all three syllables in the last name.


----------



## Guest

Sorry, I was wrong about Schubert. As I said, I am a little rusty. 

Karajan is, in fact, pronounced, as I said before, with the J pronounced like a consonant Y in English (as in "yes").

Regarding Beethoven - his ancestry was Dutch, but he was born after they settled in Germany, and no doubt spoke German. Would it be off base to assume that, perhaps, his parents would have given him a German name, and not a Dutch name? Certainly they may have kept the Dutch pronunciation of the surname, but would Beethoven himself have regarded himself as Dutch or German? I suspect German, and I tend to think he would have gone with the German pronunciation of Ludwig (Lood-vig). If anybody has evidence to the contrary, I would be very much interested, as I don't claim any evidence for my conclusion, rather it is a supposition.


----------



## Polednice

DrMike said:


> Sorry, I was wrong about Schubert. As I said, I am a little rusty.
> 
> Karajan is, in fact, pronounced, as I said before, with the J pronounced like a consonant Y in English (as in "yes").
> 
> Regarding Beethoven - his ancestry was Dutch, but he was born after they settled in Germany, and no doubt spoke German. Would it be off base to assume that, perhaps, his parents would have given him a German name, and not a Dutch name? Certainly they may have kept the Dutch pronunciation of the surname, but would Beethoven himself have regarded himself as Dutch or German? I suspect German, and I tend to think he would have gone with the German pronunciation of Ludwig (Lood-vig). If anybody has evidence to the contrary, I would be very much interested, as I don't claim any evidence for my conclusion, rather it is a supposition.


I have no evidence either way, and I don't really have a vested interest in the question, but you should be careful about assuming Beethoven would consider himself German. After all, look at all those Americans with immigrant ancestry of several generations back to Ireland who think that they're as Irish as the indigenous population


----------



## mueske

DrMike said:


> Sorry, I was wrong about Schubert. As I said, I am a little rusty.
> 
> Karajan is, in fact, pronounced, as I said before, with the J pronounced like a consonant Y in English (as in "yes").
> 
> Regarding Beethoven - his ancestry was Dutch, but he was born after they settled in Germany, and no doubt spoke German. Would it be off base to assume that, perhaps, his parents would have given him a German name, and not a Dutch name? Certainly they may have kept the Dutch pronunciation of the surname, but would Beethoven himself have regarded himself as Dutch or German? I suspect German, and I tend to think he would have gone with the German pronunciation of Ludwig (Lood-vig). If anybody has evidence to the contrary, I would be very much interested, as I don't claim any evidence for my conclusion, rather it is a supposition.


He loved his grandfather, who was from Mechelen (Belgium), so it wouldn't surprise me. And as emiellucifuge has already stated, it is the German form of Lodewijk.

I really do remember reading it somewhere, but don't quite recall where. Might be in one of my books about music history.


----------



## kmisho

There's one composer's name I find myself always stumbling over. I believe it's spelt (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) "John Bull."

signed

Wojciech Długoraj


----------



## andruini

The hardest one for me was Milhaud, I always pronounced it and heard it pronounced mill-houd, but I recently found out it's actually me-shaw or me-jaw (between those two; it's so hard to write phonetic pronunciations ).


----------



## mamascarlatti

Polednice said:


> The dipthong, I believe, should only be present in a different, almost-equivalent 'u' sound as in 'lieu'. In 'Debussy', however, the single 'u' should be pronounced as 'boo' just as you would find it in the second-person pronoun 'tu' (French 'you') - I think we can at least agree that 'tu' would never be pronounced 'teyoo' (unless by a non-native speaker!).
> 
> Of course, 'oo' is only an approximation of the French vowel sound, as it doesn't exist in English, which is why English learners of French often struggle with the pronunciation of any word that includes it.


I agree with you on this one. No diphthong. "u" as in tu.

Syllables fairly evenly stressed with a faint stress on the last syllable.

(I'm bilingual French/English, born in Switzerland and schooled in French until age of 12.)


----------



## Polednice

mamascarlatti said:


> I agree with you on this one. No diphthong. "u" as in tu.
> 
> Syllables fairly evenly stressed with a faint stress on the last syllable.
> 
> (I'm bilingual French/English, born in Switzerland and schooled in French until age of 12.)


Ha - two Frenchies with contradictory pronunciations and here I am stuck in the middle  All I can say is that, in the many times I've heard it spoken, I have never heard it with a diphthong, and _always_ without one, so I think I'll just stick to the latter :/


----------



## mueske

andruini said:


> The hardest one for me was Milhaud, I always pronounced it and heard it pronounced mill-houd, but I recently found out it's actually me-shaw or me-jaw (between those two; it's so hard to write phonetic pronunciations ).


Eh?

That doesn't even begin to sound right.

It's more like "mi-jo", actually.


----------



## TresPicos

andruini said:


> The hardest one for me was Milhaud, I always pronounced it and heard it pronounced mill-houd, but I recently found out it's actually me-shaw or me-jaw (between those two; it's so hard to write phonetic pronunciations ).


Milhaud should be pronounced "Mee-YOH".


----------



## andruini

mueske said:


> Eh?
> 
> That doesn't even begin to sound right.
> 
> It's more like "mi-jo", actually.


Alright, yeah, you guys are right.. I didn't know how to write it properly..


----------



## mueske

French people like to swallow... their letters.

Keep that in mind.


----------



## TresPicos

*French names?*

Here we go... 

sound guide: 
- AA = a in father
- AE = first a in pancakes
- AH = u in cut
- É = first e in here
- EE = ee in meet
- EH = e in leg 
- OE = e in her
- OH = o in more
- OO = oo in moose
- UU = French u or German ü, the vowel you pass halfway from the initial "ee" sound to the final "oo" sound in "you". Well, "oo" if you must...
- ZH = the "s" sound in "casual" = the sound which is to "sh" what "z" is to "s"

Alain: ah-LAEN
Alkan: ahl-KAANG
Auber: oh-BAER
Auric: oh-RICK
Berlioz: baer-lee-OHZ
Bizet: bee-ZÉ
Boismortier: boo-a-mohr-tee-É
Boulez: boo-LEHZ
Brumel: broo-MEHL
Campra: kaam-PRAH
Chabrier: shah-bree-É
Chausson: shoh-SOHNG
Chopin: shoh-PAEN(G)
Couperin: coo-peh-RAENG
Debussy: deb-uu-SEE or "deb you see"
Delibes: deh-LEEB or 
Josquin des Prez: zhohs-KAEN dé PRÉ
d'Indy: daen-DEE
Duparc: duu-PAHRK
Dupré: duu-PRÉ
Duruflé: duu-ruu-FLÉ
Dutilleux: duu-tee-YOE
Fauré: foh-RÉ
Francaix: frahn-SEX *
Franck: FRAANG-K
Gilles: ZHEEL
Glière: glee-AER
Gombert: gohm-BAER
Gossec: goh-SSECK
Gounod: goo-NOH
Honegger: oh-neh-GAER
Ibert: ee-BAER
Jolivet: zhoh-lee-VÉ
Koechlin: koe-KLAEN
Lalo: lah-LOH
Leclair: loe-KLAER
Loeillet: loe-YÉ
Lully: luu-LEE
Marais: mah-RAE
Méhul: mé-UUL
Messiaen: mess-ee-AENG
Milhaud: mee-YOH
Molique: moh-LEEK
Pierné: pee-aer-NÉ
Poulenc: poo-LAENG-k
Rameau: rah-MOH
Ravel: rah-VEL
Roussel: roo-SEHL
Saint-Saëns: saen-SAAN-s
Satie: sah-TEE
Tailleferre: tah-ee-FAER (= how you would pronounce the English words "tie fair")
Varèse: vah-RAES
Widor: vee-DOHR
Vierne: vee-AERN
Vieuxtemps: vee-oe-TAAM
Ysaÿe: ee-sah-EE

* "Françaix said that the French always pronounced it "Frahn-SAY" but his family, 
which was Belgian, preferred "Frahn-SEX." He said either pronunciation was fine with him."

UNSURE: 
Boulanger: should be boo-long-ZHÉ, but it might be boo-long-ZHAER
Dukas: should be duu-KAH, but it might be duu-KAHZ
Dufay: should be duu-FEH, but it's actually Flemish, so duu-FAH-ee (rhymes with fly) might be more correct


----------



## Polednice

TresPicos said:


> *French names?*


Some... interesting pronunciations there  maybe it's a regional vs. standard thing. I think I'll just stick with the pronunciations I learned for French because they're yet to fail me!


----------



## Argus

TresPicos said:


> Gounod: goo-NOH


I still prefer to call him Gonad.

I have realised the way to correctly pronounce French words is to downturn the sides of your mouth, raise your eyebrows ever so slightly and then imagine you have a disdain or contempt for not only the word you are uttering but everyone else present in the room. Then they roll off the tongue effortlessly. For a masterclass in this observe Eric Cantona.


----------



## Romantic Geek

I have an (l)oux ending in my last name. If someone says loucks...I near murder them (with my eyes!) To think Francaix wanted his name to be said like that is well...blasphemy!


----------



## Polednice

Argus said:


> I still prefer to call him Gonad.
> 
> I have realised the way to correctly pronounce French words is to downturn the sides of your mouth, raise your eyebrows ever so slightly and then imagine you have a disdain or contempt for not only the word you are uttering but everyone else present in the room. Then they roll off the tongue effortlessly. For a masterclass in this observe Eric Cantona.


Even though I'm English and have always lived in England, speaking French should be no trouble for me - I ooze disdain and contempt everywhere I go, so my face must constantly be in the right position! Saying that, most English people are bloody miserable, though I suppose that's just because they like to complain. I have that added extra of hating everything I see


----------



## kmisho

I didn't read every single name in TresPicos's list, but all I looked at looks basically right.

By the way Polednice, you win in that other thread that was apparently too incendiary and had to be executed. Best romantic composer: Brahms.


----------



## mueske

TresPicos, Debyousee isn't right, I'm sorry.

http://www.forvo.com/word/claude_debussy/


----------



## Polednice

kmisho said:


> I didn't read every single name in TresPicos's list, but all I looked at looks basically right.
> 
> By the way Polednice, you win in that other thread that was apparently too incendiary and had to be executed. Best romantic composer: Brahms.


Indeed! It's an irrefutable fact! And, if anything, it should be 'Bach, Mozart and Brahms' 

Just to stay on topic, in case anyone didn't know, it's pronounced 'brarms' (as in 'arms' with a 'br' )


----------



## Aramis

Polednice said:


> Just to stay on topic, in case anyone didn't know, it's pronounced 'brarms' (as in 'arms' with a 'br' )






 - let Brahms speak his name for himself


----------



## Polednice

Aramis said:


> - let Brahms speak his name for himself


Ha - that recording makes it sound like he's too old to remember his name.


----------



## TresPicos

mueske said:


> TresPicos, Debyousee isn't right, I'm sorry.
> 
> http://www.forvo.com/word/claude_debussy/


I know it isn't "right" right. It's only a mnemonic to get it fairly right. Only speakers of French get that one perfectly right. However, I doubt that any English-speaking person would ever get in trouble by pronouncing it "Deb-you-SEE". You just have to get the stress right and not let the vowel sounds go off the chart to "pass the test". 

Actually, almost all other names on that list was easier to "translate" than Debussy.


----------



## kmisho

mueske said:


> TresPicos, Debyousee isn't right, I'm sorry.
> 
> http://www.forvo.com/word/claude_debussy/


Even with the link, it's basically correct with mild Anglicization.

closer to du-boo-see, with the oo and the ee extremely closed, much more closed than normally occurs in English.


----------



## TresPicos

I read (and heard) somewhere that Stenhammar should be pronounced "sten-hahm-er", which is pretty good, but not perfect. 

The stress is on "sten" all right (with the sound of the first "e" in "here"), but the "sten" sound should also be a bit longer (actually as long as that first "e" in "here"). But most of all, the last syllable should have the same vowel sound ("hum" as in "hummingbird") as the middle one, and not an -er (as in hammer). 

In my ad hoc notation, it would be: STÉÉN-hahm-mahr

However, unlike the French, no Swede would ever expect a perfect pronunciation of a Swedish name by a foreigner. In fact, the average Swede would probably think "Wow, that guy has actually heard of Stenhammar!" or, more sadly, "Who is Stenhammar?"


----------



## kmisho

forvo.com is a great site!

I don't recall this one coming up.

Sergei Rachmaninov

ser-ge rach-mon-ye-noff

The r's are flipped (the capital R may be rolled). The thing most people leave out is that "y" sound that falls between the two n's.


----------



## TresPicos

It seems Paul Dukas actually pronounced the "s" at the end of his last name, in an "un-French" manner:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2006/11/how_to_say_francis_poulenc.shtml


----------



## Polednice

TresPicos said:


> It seems Paul Dukas actually pronounced the "s" at the end of his last name, in an "un-French" manner:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/magazinemonitor/2006/11/how_to_say_francis_poulenc.shtml


According to that link, I was also wrong about Poulenc (I gave the normal French pronunciation, which it isn't). I've always pronounced the 's' in Dukas; I thought we had that one a couple of pages ago. I'm losing track!


----------



## kmisho

It's interesting how in some cases the only source is an original or close-to-original source and if those sources are unavailable...there is no source!

For instance, how do you really pronounce Guillaume de Machaut (died 1377)?

Look at my screenname, which contains a transliteration. I could actually be distantly related to him.


----------



## Polednice

kmisho said:


> It's interesting how in some cases the only source is an original or close-to-original source and if those sources are unavailable...there is no source!
> 
> For instance, how do you really pronounce Guillaume de Machaut (died 1377)?
> 
> Look at my screenname, which contains a transliteration. I could actually be distantly related to him.


It's interesting - and this is outside my realm of knowledge - how linguists and philologists attempt to piece together the pronunciations of the medieval predecessors of our current languages. For example, I study 'Old English' (the language spoken by the Anglo-Saxons prior to 1066, thus, no French influence, only Germanic), and all the basic guides to the language contain pronunciation keys, but there is clearly no survivor to help them out. Yet, even though Old English looks _entirely_ foreign (unlike Middle English), linguists somehow manage a reverse-evolution trace of phonetic changes in a language and suggest a pronunciation, while saying that it could all be wrong anyway!

Of course, there are special circumstances that make things particularly awkward, such as the still-in-circulation name 'Featherstonehaugh', which appears to have a fairly simple pronunciation, but should actually be said 'fawn-shaw', which is nothing like how it is spelt. So, if you come across a Medieval individual who happened to fancy an alternative pronunciation to an otherwise normal-appearing name, then we'll never know the truth!


----------



## emiellucifuge

Well I have a friend named Guillaume and he pronounces it

Gee-yom (with the 'o' from 'omen') - Roughly!!

I assume 'de Machaut' is pronounced

de - ma - show


----------



## TresPicos

emiellucifuge said:


> Well I have a friend named Guillaume and he pronounces it
> 
> Gee-yom (with the 'o' from 'omen') - Roughly!!
> 
> I assume 'de Machaut' is pronounced
> 
> de - ma - show


I agree.

And the "G" in Guillaume is the same as in "good".


----------



## Golaud

mueske said:


> TresPicos, Debyousee isn't right, I'm sorry.
> 
> http://www.forvo.com/word/claude_debussy/


Charles Dutoit (French speaking conductor born in Switzerland) studied under Debussy friend Ernst Ansermet and he pronounces it "Deb-You-SEE".


----------



## Polednice

Golaud said:


> Charles Dutoit (French speaking conductor born in Switzerland) studied under Debussy friend Ernst Ansermet and he pronounces it "Deb-You-SEE".


Then I bet Debussy must have become annoyed at people who knew him constantly saying his name wrong


----------



## TresPicos

Here's a challenge: Bulgarian composer Krassimir *Kyurkchiyski*.


----------



## emiellucifuge

maybe :

Kee - yur - k - chee - ee - ski


----------



## Romantic Geek

emiellucifuge said:


> Well I have a friend named Guillaume and he pronounces it
> 
> Gee-yom (with the 'o' from 'omen') - Roughly!!
> 
> I assume 'de Machaut' is pronounced
> 
> de - ma - show


I'm assuming by Gee, you mean like the beginning of Geese "Gee"


----------



## Jeremy Marchant

Have we done the Hungarian composer/conductor and former associate of Stockhausen (pr. Sht---), Peter Eötvös?


----------



## TresPicos

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Have we done the Hungarian composer/conductor and former associate of Stockhausen (pr. Sht---), Peter Eötvös?


The stress is on the first syllable, the E is silent, the ö is more or less the vowel sound in "hurt" and the s is pronounced sh.


----------



## jurianbai

interesting. I always wrong with Chopin, Dvorak , but those already mentioned. How about:
Fuchs
Edvard Grieg
Ignaz Pleyel 
Louis Spohr

French ? :
crotchet 
quaver


----------



## sospiro

Hope it's OK to put this here (it's not a composer) but I had always pronounced Pelléas et Mélisande as on here but when I booked with the Barbican earlier this week the guy on the phone snorted "Oh do you mean Pelléas et Mélisand*aay*?"

Which is correct?


----------



## Boccherini

Édouard-Victoire-Antoine Lalo.
I'm pretty sure you don't emphasize the last 'd' in the first name... and probably a few letters more...

*Guillaume de Machaut* - Gi Yom De Masho.
*Hayne van Ghizeghem*
*Gottfried Scheidt* (No, it is not).


----------



## TresPicos

sospiro said:


> Hope it's OK to put this here (it's not a composer) but I had always pronounced Pelléas et Mélisande as on here but when I booked with the Barbican earlier this week the guy on the phone snorted "Oh do you mean Pelléas et Mélisand*aay*?"
> 
> Which is correct?


The regular French pronunciation would be "mel-ee-SAUND", with an audible "d" at the end, just like in your link. So, unless "Melisande" is some sort of exception to the rule, the guy on the phone was wrong.

However, in English-speaking countries, a slight mispronunciation is usually the way to go in order to be understood properly.


----------



## TresPicos

Joker64 said:


> Édouard-Victoire-Antoine Lalo.
> I'm pretty sure you don't emphasize the last 'd' in the first name... and probably a few letters more...


"Ed-WAHR Vic-TWAHR Ahn-TWAHN Lah-LOH" should be good enough, where AH is the vowel sound in "fun" and "gun" and OH is the sound in "more".


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Some of you have mentioned the pronunciation of Russian composers? The Tchaikovsky one I'm split on, because I see the logic to saying "Chai" but in another source I found, it was "Chee" (a website were a bunch of Russian composers names were said, seemed legitimate). I'll stick to Chai.

But there were some other interesting finds on that website: for Prokofiev, it's Prah-KOhf-ee-eff," the "ah" as in "apple." Also, Rachmaninoff is like "Rahh-mAhn-yee-noff" (notice the yee). I can no longer find that website, unfortunately.


----------



## Air

Huilunsoittaja said:


> But there were some other interesting finds on that website: for Prokofiev, it's Prah-KOhf-ee-eff," the "ah" as in "apple." Also, Rachmaninoff is like "Rahh-mAhn-yee-noff" (notice the yee). I can no longer find that website, unfortunately.


Good stuff.

Another interesting one is their first names. In the case of Rachmaninoff, Sergei is pronounced "sir-GAY". In the case of Prokofiev and Koussevitzky, who adopted the French form of their name, Serge is prounounced "serzh" or "serj".

So it would be "sir-GAY rahh-mAhn-yee-noff" and "serzh prah-kOhf-ee-eff".


----------



## CDs

Glad to see I'm not the only one that can't pronounce composers names. I even have issues with some conductors names such as Philippe Herreweghe.


----------



## Pugg

CDs said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one that can't pronounce composers names. I even have issues with some conductors names such as Philippe Herreweghe.


As long as we all know who you mean, we are alright.


----------



## Bettina

I know that Haydn should be pronounced with a crisply articulated D, not with the lazy alveolar flap that we use in American English. But I feel like it would sound pretentious to pronounce it correctly, so I just flap it like every other American (actually, though, most Americans aren't talking about Haydn at all...:lol


----------



## Pugg

Bettina said:


> I know that Haydn should be pronounced with a crisply articulated D, not with the lazy alveolar flap that we use in American English. But I feel like it would sound pretentious to pronounce it correctly, so I just flap it like every other American (actually, though, most Americans aren't talking about Haydn at all...:lol


Well..... you lot have to do what Europe brought you on good composers, but we do like to share.:angel:


----------



## hpowders

Bettina said:


> I know that Haydn should be pronounced with a crisply articulated D, not with the lazy alveolar flap that we use in American English. But I feel like it would sound pretentious to pronounce it correctly, so I just flap it like every other American (actually, though, most Americans aren't talking about Haydn at all...:lol


From now on, I will attempt to pronounce his name correctly. I will write it as "Hay*D*n"...and if I get hundreds of cards, letters and PMs because of it, I will simply forward them all to you.


----------



## Pat Fairlea

OK Scandwegiaphiles, how about Niels Gade? 

Gah-duh or Gah-thuh?


----------



## Klassik

I have a co-worker who enjoys some classical music so we "talk classical" frequently. It seems that a third of our time goes to discussing the actual music, a third goes to discussing the odd lives that many of these composers lived, and a third goes to trying to figure out how to pronounce the names! It's odd to have so much knowledge about some of these composers, but then end up not even knowing how to say their names. But, yeah, I'm glad that this is a textual forum and not a spoken one or else I'd really embarrass myself trying to discuss these composers.


----------



## Bix

CDs said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one that can't pronounce composers names. I even have issues with some conductors names such as Philippe Herreweghe.


His name is pronounced 'fill-eep Herrr-eh-ve-ge' roll the rrrrs and say all of the last name sections together - the 'eh-ve-ge' bits are short and crisp.


----------



## Bix

Pat Fairlea said:


> OK Scandwegiaphiles, how about Niels Gade?
> 
> Gah-duh or Gah-thuh?


This is a weird one, I would know how to pronounce it in Swedish but as he is Danish I'm not sure. I'll ask a Danish colleague when I next see him.

In Swedish it would be 'Neelsh Gah-dhuh'.


----------



## Bettina

I'm confused about how to pronounce Saint-Saëns. I've heard a wide variety of different pronunciations on the radio and I don't know what's right. Is the final s pronounced or is it silent? And how is the pronunciation affected by the umlaut (well, technically I suppose it's a dieresis)?


----------



## hpowders

Of course, pronunciation has changed dramatically since 2010 when this thread originated.


----------



## Pugg

Pat Fairlea said:


> OK Scandwegiaphiles, how about Niels Gade?
> 
> Gah-duh or Gah-thuh?


I would say Gad uh with.


----------

