# The skull behind the smile



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I think there are some works, generally optimistic or even light-hearted in nature, that remind us of the threats lurking in even the most idyllic scenes. Two mostly-happy works that include somber or even ominous interludes:

- Shostakovich's 9th Symphony (2nd movement, moderato)
- Bartok's Divertimento for Strings (2nd movement, molto adagio -- scary, even!)

There must be more, probably 20th century. Your nominees?


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## Stirling (Nov 18, 2015)

The 1700's was full of it, were the New Testament was the smile behind every skull - for example Bach BWV 1077.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Vaughan Williams Symphony #3, which is most misleadingly called the 'Pastoral'. Rather than being an evocation of the countryside, it is a remembrance and memorial given his experiences in France during WW1


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Schoenberg's Serenade op 24 starts off quite upbeat, optimistic, hearty, and content. Then it gradually becomes more darker and lyrical and shadowy... But the whole time it maintains its positive self-confidence, with a boisterous baritone singer coming in a bit over halfway through. It's fun and happy music with a tinge of darkness and uncertainty behind it. Highly recommended.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

One of the most well respected and popular of them all, the second movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I've always thought the Landler (2nd movement) of the Mahler ninth had a creepy aspect to it.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

MarkW said:


> I've always thought the Landler (2nd movement) of the Mahler ninth had a creepy aspect to it.


Oh, definitely. It constantly vacillates between minor and major and (paraphrasing La Grange) twists common chord progressions into almost unrecognizable forms.


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## GKC (Jun 2, 2011)

Stirling said:


> The 1700's was full of it, were the New Testament was the smile behind every skull - for example Bach BWV 1077.


Do you mean "where" the N.T...?

What were the skulls in Bach's case?


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

A piece written quite a bit of time after the Schoenberg serenade, but with a similar mood and aesthetic:

Ferneyhough's La chute d'Icare for clarinet solo and small ensemble 




Also, check out Gerard Grisey's Vortex Temporum. 



 It starts off with an angelic ecstasy, but then becomes incredibly tense and dark, as if the meaning of life (I'm being figurative here! ) were just about to be unraveled in a dark night of the soul.

Feldman's Crippled Symmetry 



 also combines an ecstatic glow with an incredibly tense contemplation of absolute darkness.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ravel's _La Valse_ starts out well enough......


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Brahms' horn trio - the slow movement is really grim.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> One of the most well respected and popular of them all, the second movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony.


I don't see a lot of smiles there.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

When you think about whole works, many will have these moments. I wonder if this is the whole M.O. of Mahler, for instance. Or Bruckner? Or even Beethoven? Or Sturm und Drang? And later, the highlighting of tension (including between joyful/sinister) is central to expression! Maybe smaller works or movements would be more interesting??

Too lazy to think of any right now of course


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

The thread's title reminds me of:


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> One of the most well respected and popular of them all, the second movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony.





norman bates said:


> I don't see a lot of smiles there.


You don't see a lot of smiles in the exuberantly joyous first movement? Nor in the dancing and energetically rhythmic finale? I can't help but smile when listening.

It's the "Apotheosis of the Dance" for a reason.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Hm, I'm thinking of Ives' The Unanswered Question.

Only because the beautiful string section makes me smile, feels calm and at ease. But then, the questions!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra. It isn't a skull back there, it's the tentatively detected Things Unknowable.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

Third movement ("Purgatorio"), Mahler Symphony #10.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Haydn's Military symphony is a good one.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I think there are some works, generally optimistic or even light-hearted in nature, that remind us of the threats lurking in even the most idyllic scenes. Two mostly-happy works that include somber or even ominous interludes:
> 
> - Shostakovich's 9th Symphony (2nd movement, moderato)
> - Bartok's Divertimento for Strings (2nd movement, molto adagio -- scary, even!)
> ...


Haydn's 'London' Symphony is generally optimistic and assertive, but contains 'darker' hues, especially evident in the introduction, which recur throughout the symphony.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Rossini's Stabat Mater has lots of jolly tunes with a sadly grieving text.

Cujus animam gementem
Contristatem et dolentes
Pertransivit gladius.

O quam tristis et afflicta
Fuit illa benedicta
Mater unigeniti.

Quae morebat et dolebat
et tremebat cum videbat
Nati poenas inclyti.

_Whose soul, lamenting,
sorrowing and grieving,
has been pierced by the sword.

O how sad and afflicted
was that blessed
Mother of her only-begotten Son.

Who wept and grieved
and trembled to behold
the torment of her glorious child._


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

*RVW 3rd symphony*

Glad that someone else hears Vaughann Williams 3rd Symphony as a requiem. It's of a piece with some of Thomas Hardy' s poetry.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

You seem to be in a very happy mood of late, KenOC.  But that might just be that I've become a little more observant and contributive to the forum.

I would think a lot of Prokofiev would be included. 5th Symphony, Scherzo movement? Those malevolent woodwinds and brass...

Schnittke's rendition of Silent Night? The creepiest "Christmas" thing you'll ever hear... :lol:

And you can't forget, the Prokofiev's Cinderella macabre merry-go-round waltz which is suppose to be a happy moment in the ballet, but then you know how the story goes...


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