# A Tale of Two Cities



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Once upon a time, there were 2 great Conservatories in Russia. There was one in St. Petersburg, and another in Moscow. They began relatively at the same time by 2 brothers with the same intentions: to produce musical greatness for Russia. But over time, a gap between the musical personalities and values began to emerge. The tale of these 2 cities is a vast and complex one of tense relations, and yet there's an undermining current of desire for reconciliation.

THE SAINT PETERSBURG CONSERVATORY
It holds the title of Russia's oldest conservatory, and was considered the premiere school of Russia for decades. The home of the Mighty Handful, and the birth of Russian Nationalism and general conservative values. It was not that the Mighty Handful were _products_ of this school, but rather they were the prime influence of many further generations uniquely there alone. Compositional idiom and taste was on par with one's personal loyalty to Russia. "Don't let us pull the _treason_ card on you!" See link for all the illustrious representatives and graduates.

THE MOSCOW CONSERVATORY
It can be said this school was an outgrowth from St.Petersburg, since often graduates from there took their independent careers in Moscow (Tchaikovsky and Arensky are examples). And yet, Moscow began to show major deviations from the values of those of the older predecessor. The more modern voice of cosmopolitanism arose, a world-embracing feeling of music where it wasn't treason to write in foreign style if you were still patriotic at heart. And is one's country, with all its interests and fascinations, all that you should write for? What about your own personal feelings on life? See link for all the illustrious representatives and graduates.

From the present perspective, Russian composers are often bunched into a single category, and yet in their time it was hardly the case in the 1800s. These 2 schools highly respected each other, but there was real tension. There was competition. Who was more talented, more impressive... more famous? Composers from each city went to the other to promote themselves, sometimes highly opposed. Mainly, St. Petersburg composers were quite hostile to Muscovites on occasions. For this reason, I don't put Tchaikovsky and Arensky in the category of St. Petersburg composers, because they lost the support of St. Petersburg, and did their own style in Moscow.

Another factor was the ever-increasing modernism emerging in both conservatories. However, it can be reasonably said that the Moscow School held perhaps the first proponents of musical revolution (beginning with Scriabin and Rachmaninoff) unlike what was seen before with Glazunov or his contemporaries. Some reasons could be the "weak holding of the reins" in Moscow as opposed to the highly iron-fisted control of the St.Petersburg composers and critics. Of course with the coming of Stravinsky, the establishments were shattered to a degree (although even then Stravinsky had to "escape" Russia if he wanted to be a cosmopolitan, turning to France). What once kept Moscow and St. Petersburg separate began to fall apart, but now they found a new point to differ on. Into the 20th century, as both schools were swayed by musical revolution, the schools differed in their reactions to change. As Shostakovich once wrote, he considered going to_ Moscow_ instead of St. Petersburg for composition because of its more free attitude toward music. Moscow's cosmopolitanism created a segue for Russia as the whole world turned cosmopolitan in the 20th century. Furthermore, the term "Soviet" composer signaled change, where musical style was no longer dictated by city, but by entire country.

So I give this question to you all today. If you were living at the turn of the 20th century in Russia, what conservatory would you personally stand with? Which school's representatives and values do you respect/appreciate/identify with more? Or even today, looking back, which do you prefer? On this topic, I'm mainly speaking of composers, though musicians/conductors could hold a role in you opinion. This is open discussion, no poll.

As you can tell by my very long post, I'm really into this stuff. :lol:


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Well, I don't know as much of these people as I probably should, and actually now that I think about it I have hardly anything from St Petersburg compared to the Moscovites like Tchaikovsky. It seems slightly strange to me, as I was under the impression that socially speaking at least, Moscow was much more conservative, or 'Russian', and St Petersburg more 'European', and made by Peter the Great to be so (with a German name and all ). Were the conservatories contrary to their cities, or have I got it all wrong?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Saint Petersburg seems 'stronger' in having later well-known composers pass through its doors, the Moscow, more performers.

You always choose a school by your major, and the teachers on staff for that subject.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I like Санкт-Петербургская государственная консерватория имени Н. А. Римского-Корсакова more 

I can't find some of my favorite composers there, maybe they were too old to join or worked by themselves. Like Mussorgsky, Balakirev, Ippoltov Ivanov, Glinka and Borodin.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Moscow - So many performers that I know and like come from there. Besides, my music teacher went there.  

(Are they very good reasons? I don't know...)


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Saint Petersburg seems 'stronger' in having later well-known composers pass through its doors, the Moscow, more performers.
> 
> You always choose a school by your major, and the teachers on staff for that subject.


Yes, over time, St. Petersburg drew in more composers, and Moscow more musicians. Looking at the graduates, each definitely lean more to one side.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Ramako said:


> Well, I don't know as much of these people as I probably should, and actually now that I think about it I have hardly anything from St Petersburg compared to the Moscovites like Tchaikovsky. It seems slightly strange to me, as I was under the impression that socially speaking at least, Moscow was much more conservative, or 'Russian', and St Petersburg more 'European', and made by Peter the Great to be so (with a German name and all ). Were the conservatories contrary to their cities, or have I got it all wrong?


I don't know, you could be right. The schools themselves are only a handful of people out of the entire city populations. It would be interesting to study further, into what made Moscow and St. Petersburg different culturally.

Through reading some books by Tolstoy, it was further evidence that there was even the slightest tension between the cities otherwise. Sometimes they wouldn't trust each other, or each had its "stereotypes," Petersburg being the more lurid one.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Sounds a bit like the Melbourne versus Sydney rivalry of days past here, but now it appears less marked. But Melbourne still has more of an 'artsy' image and Sydney relies more on its natural attributes (eg. the harbour and beaches).

I have said this a lot on this forum, but in his time, Tchaikovsky kind of fell between the two chairs of these polarities you speak of. In Western Europe, his critics said he was too Russian, but at home, they said he was too European. You never can win with ideology, can you?

But thanks for making the effort for this, Huilu, I had never thought about this to any depth. Its interesting though how its hard to draw strong boundaries though (I think). Tchaikovsky had his '1812 Overture' premiered in Moscow (commissioned by the Tsar for the opening of the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour, which Stalin later demolished but in recent times its been rebuilt) but his ballets as I understand it where done for the ballet at St. Petersburg (centre of the Tsarist empire, all those grand buildings and opulence). I know the latter city had a huge underground gay subculture - made up largely of nobility and intellectuals - that also drew Tchaikovsky in. He is a fascinating composer, as is his historical context, and I've been researching about him lately a bit.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

It is interesting that you offer an image of St. Petersburg as the bastion of Conservatism as opposed to Moscow as the more international and progressive. I have long sensed the exact reverse to be true. Even from the very establishment of St. Peterburg by Peter the Great, it was a city deeply involved in reaching out to the culture of the West. It is telling that the Hermitage, that great repository of European art, is to be found in St. Petersburg and not Moscow. Add to that the great Western-style architecture, which Sid mentions... far more in line with European styles of Neo-Classicism and the Rococo than with native Russian style. And then you have the various cosmopolitan/international artists from St. Petersburg: Alexander Pushkin, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, Vladimir Nabokov, Anna Akhmatova, Piotr Tchaikovsky, Sergei Prokofiev, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Dmitri Shostakovich, Igor Stravinsky... even Anna Netrebko!!!... and I really can't see St. Petersburg as the home of Russian conservatism at all.

I read up a bit, however, and find that the "Mighty Five" did indeed push their musical ideas from the St. Petersburg Conservatory, while Tchaikovsky was employed at the Moscow Conservatory, yet I don't know if we should define them as "conservatives" as opposed to Muscovite "progressives"... nor that we should imagine that they represent the conservative culture of St. Petersburg as a whole vs progressive Moscow. In many ways it would seem to me that the idea of creating a music based in Russian folk music traditions and opposed to rooted in Western European ideas could be seen as part of the entire push of the era (which crossed all national borders) toward a musical nationalism. We hear this as much in Wagner, Debussy, Dvorak, Grieg, etc... as we do in Mussorgsky, Balakirev, etc... Indeed, from what I have read of The Five, they argued that theirs was the progressive/modern position... a desire to create a truly Russian national music as opposed to a music based upon older German and Italian models. Part of Tchaikovsky's strength lies in the manner in which he merged the native Russian with the finest elements of European music as a whole.

If I had to choose one or the other... there's absolutely no comparison: St. Petersburg all the way.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Which one had Schnittke?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I'd like to add to what stlukes said above. St. Petersburg was called Russia's 'window to the West.' Of course, Peter the Great and his successor Catherine the Great where involved in establishing the city as a kind of hub of exchange with Western Europe. 

But its not surprising, maybe, how since it became the capital of the USSR, I know more about Moscow's more recent history - and let's face it, Stalin made his mark in 'modernising' the city, building the metro and other infrastructure, those 8 or so ugly 'wedding cake' style towers that are I think still standing, building row upon row of apartments for the party cadres to live in, various big halls for trade shows and stuff of the sort. Successive Soviet rulers did more and of course now in the post-Soviet era we've got skyscrapers and all that stuff. At the same time, during the Soviet era, much of those heritage buildings in St. Petersburg kind of decayed and had to wait until after Communism to be restored to their former glory.

Just an 'update,' but I'd say that in terms of the centre of power since 1917, Moscow has really been in the spotlight. & maybe its a bit like Washington DC and New York in the USA. Or Sydney and Melbourne as I said. But parochialism is less so now than before. Its all about money, basically.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Just an 'update,' but I'd say that in terms of the centre of power since 1917, Moscow has really been in the spotlight. & maybe its a bit like Washington DC and New York in the USA.

Actually I think Washington D.C. is rather culturally irrelevant. If New York has a serious competitor it's LA. After that New Orleans and Chicago... although I would say that was more accurate in the past.


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