# Faulty files on streaming



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I've used Google Play for streaming and am noticing these irritating bad files. Usually fading out at the end of a tracks but other problems too.

Examples -

Puccini: _Turandot_ (Molinari-Pradelli recording) - fading at the end of disc 1 track 5 and "Nessun dorma" (disc 2 track 10)

Rossini: _Guillaume Tell_ (Gardelli recording) - first half of overture completely missing!

Stravinsky: _Le Sacre du Printemps_ (Nagano recording) - fading at the end of "Augers of Spring" (disc 1 track 3)

Wagner: _Der Fliegende Holländer_ (Klemperer recording, 2 of the 3 releases) - fading at the end of disc 1 track 21 (Senta's ballad complete) followed by three more tracks (22, 23, and disc 2 track 1) which are Senta's ballad again but chopped up between the tracks. Basically, the ballad gets played again when it's not supposed to.

Wagner: _Lohengrin_ (Kempe recording) - fading at the end of the "Bridal Chorus" (disk 3 track 2), fading at the end of disc 3 track 3, fading at the end of "In fernem Land" (disc 3 track 14)

So is anyone experiencing problems like this on other streaming services? I would like to know if this problem lies with Google or not. I'm thinking it might be the record label though, as all of these releases are recordings that are currently owned by Warner.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I've had some problems with Tidal over the years (of various sorts), but not so many that I would give it up. (Unless it's been repaired, don't even try to listen to Annie Fischer's Beethoven on Tidal.)

But most of the examples you describe suggest a problem with gapless playback - not pausing between tracks. With a pop album, a pause between tracks is generally expected - _pace_ fans of "Dark Side of the Moon." But with opera and a number of other classical works, the pause can ruin the flow of a work. Sometimes these pauses are so short that they are barely noticeable, but other times they are not. I don't know why that is.

This can be avoided, but the technology in the chain of hardware used for streaming must support gapless. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but the basic idea is that the player has to tell the music source, "OK - start sending me the next track - I'll store it, so I can begin playing it immediately once the current track is over," and the source has to know how to respond to it. For instance, I know that my Google ChromeCast Audio streamers do not handle gapless. (Although there may be ways to trick them into doing so.)

As for the others (William Tell and Senta's ballad), does this happen every time? Those are more like problems I have when my network hiccups.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

jegreenwood said:


> I've had some problems with Tidal over the years (of various sorts), but not so many that I would give it up. (Unless it's been repaired, don't even try to listen to Annie Fischer's Beethoven on Tidal.)
> 
> But most of the examples you describe suggest a problem with gapless playback - not pausing between tracks. With a pop album, a pause between tracks is generally expected - _pace_ fans of "Dark Side of the Moon." But with opera and a number of other classical works, the pause can ruin the flow of a work. Sometimes these pauses are so short that they are barely noticeable, but other times they are not. I don't know why that is.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's a problem with gapless playback. If that were the case, I would expect there to simply be a pause between tracks. That's not the case though. The problem is with the tracks themselves, not issues arising with playback. When I say the tracks fade at the end, I mean they sound as if someone is turning the volume down. In many of these tracks, the end of the track sounds as if the next track is starting to play (this is before the track has actually ended). After the fading, the next track plays with the music heard during the fading of the prior track being heard again. The tracks play this way every time, in the same place. This fading is written into the track. (Hopefully I explained that well.)

As for the _William Tell _overture and Senta's ballad, yes, it is the same every time. The problem is that the tracks themselves are this way, not that there is a playback issue. The _William Tell _overture is actually listed as only being 6:16 in length. It has been that way for at least a few years, as long as I've used Google Play.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

adriesba said:


> I don't think it's a problem with gapless playback. If that were the case, I would expect there to simply be a pause between tracks. That's not the case though. The problem is with the tracks themselves, not issues arising with playback. When I say the tracks fade at the end, I mean they sound as if someone is turning the volume down. In many of these tracks, the end of the track sounds as if the next track is starting to play (this is before the track has actually ended). After the fading, the next track plays with the music heard during the fading of the prior track being heard again. The tracks play this way every time, in the same place. This fading is written into the track. (Hopefully I explained that well.)
> 
> As for the _William Tell _overture and Senta's ballad, yes, it is the same every time. The problem is that the tracks themselves are this way, not that there is a playback issue. The _William Tell _overture is actually listed as only being 6:16 in length. It has been that way for at least a few years, as long as I've used Google Play.


This is probably still a problem with the playback device and its settings, not the files themselves. Some music players have default settings where there's exactly the kind of fade out between tracks as you describe. In my personal experience, I've always been able to go into the settings and turn this off, so there's no fade out. (I don't know why anyone would ever want this. But I guess some people do if it's a common feature in digital music players.).

I don't use Google Play, so I don't know if this is something you can adjust on your end, but it's worth checking out. Is there a settings menu you can tinker with?


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

apricissimus said:


> This is probably still a problem with the playback device and its settings, not the files themselves. Some music players have default settings where there's exactly the kind of fade out between tracks as you describe. In my personal experience, I've always been able to go into the settings and turn this off, so there's no fade out. (I don't know why anyone would ever want this. But I guess some people do if it's a common feature in digital music players.).
> 
> I don't use Google Play, so I don't know if this is something you can adjust on your end, but it's worth checking out. Is there a settings menu you can tinker with?


There are no such settings in the app. Wouldn't it put a fade between every single track if that were the case though?


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I looked on Amazon and saw that they also apparently only have half of the _William Tell _overture.

View attachment 140048


And based on what I can see of the track titles and from the sound samples, they seem to have the same problem with Senta's ballad. The track timings are also identical to those on Google Play.

View attachment 140049


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I am still convinced that this is a problem with the files. Here is the same problem but on YouTube. Here is "Nessun dorma" with fading at the end like on Google Play.






Here is the next track.






This is exactly how it is on Google Play. Same fading and repeating with the same tracks. I have this album on CD, and there is no such fading.

Of course, Google does own YouTube, but based on what I saw on Amazon. I'd say you'll probably find the same problem on other streaming platforms.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

adriesba said:


> I don't think it's a problem with gapless playback. If that were the case, I would expect there to simply be a pause between tracks. That's not the case though. The problem is with the tracks themselves, not issues arising with playback. When I say the tracks fade at the end, I mean they sound as if someone is turning the volume down. In many of these tracks, the end of the track sounds as if the next track is starting to play (this is before the track has actually ended). After the fading, the next track plays with the music heard during the fading of the prior track being heard again. The tracks play this way every time, in the same place. This fading is written into the track. (Hopefully I explained that well.)
> 
> As for the _William Tell _overture and Senta's ballad, yes, it is the same every time. The problem is that the tracks themselves are this way, not that there is a playback issue. The _William Tell _overture is actually listed as only being 6:16 in length. It has been that way for at least a few years, as long as I've used Google Play.


I just streamed "Nessun dorma" from Tidal to a Squeezebox player (which can do gapless) and heard exactly what you heard: not a gap, but a fade out/fade in. The one thing it brought to mind - from 40+ years ago - was the end of the side of an LP, where the music was continuous. I remember in particular my first Beethoven's 9th (Cluytens) which was squeezed onto one disc with the third movement broken in two. IIRC it had a similar fade out/fade in. And it too was EMI. And several of the recordings you mention are from the LP era.

But that theory would not account for the Nagano. However, there I heard something different. I heard the fade out, then a pause and then the last percussive note of that section repeated (full volume) properly leading into the next section.

To me it just sounds like crappy work by Warners. I know my Klemperer Magic Flute download from Presto had to be replaced.

Edit - it might have been the Giulini "Don Giovanni," that was replaced. I bought them at the same time.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

jegreenwood said:


> I just streamed "Nessun dorma" from Tidal to a Squeezebox player (which can do gapless) and heard exactly what you heard: not a gap, but a fade out/fade in. The one thing it brought to mind - from 40+ years ago - was the end of the side of an LP, where the music was continuous. I remember in particular my first Beethoven's 9th (Cluytens) which was squeezed onto one disc with the third movement broken in two. IIRC it had a similar fade out/fade in. And it too was EMI. And several of the recordings you mention are from the LP era.
> 
> But that theory would not account for the Nagano. However, there I heard something different. I heard the fade out, then a pause and then the last percussive note of that section repeated (full volume) properly leading into the next section.
> 
> ...


I thought once that it might have been a remnant of lps, but too many things contradict that idea, such as the two fading on the _Lohengrin _being too close together to be difdifferent lp sides or the lack of fading on the _Turandot _discs. Plus that does not eexplain the Nagano recording, the sloppy Senta's ballad, or the half-missing _William Tell _overture. Not sure how Warner messed them up.

When you say that you replaced your download from Presto Classical, do you mean you downloaded it again from Presto and the problem was gone?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

adriesba said:


> I thought once that it might have been a remnant of lps, but too many things contradict that idea, such as the two fading on the _Lohengrin _being too close together to be difdifferent lp sides or the lack of fading on the _Turandot _discs. Plus that does not eexplain the Nagano recording, the sloppy Senta's ballad, or the half-missing _William Tell _overture. Not sure how Warner messed them up.
> 
> When you say that you replaced your download from Presto Classical, do you mean you downloaded it again from Presto and the problem was gone?


Yes - Presto acknowledged that the initial file(s) they got from Warner was defective.

Whatever is going on, it just seems to be Warner screw-ups.


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## rspader (May 14, 2014)

I just listened to the "Nessun dorma" track on Spotify. It has the same fade out as the YouTube example that you provided so I am guessing that it is in the recording itself. As to why it is that way, my technical "expertise" has nothing to offer.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

rspader said:


> I just listened to the "Nessun dorma" track on Spotify. It has the same fade out as the YouTube example that you provided so I am guessing that it is in the recording itself. As to why it is that way, my technical "expertise" has nothing to offer.


There is no fade out on the CD though. I have no idea how that would have been introduced into the recording.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Actually, I think it makes marginally more sense on Spotify. If I wanted to put together a playlist of favorite Puccini arias. I wouldn't like them simply to be cut off.

How do they do it on opera highlights discs? I don't own any.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

jegreenwood said:


> Actually, I think it makes marginally more sense on Spotify. If I wanted to put together a playlist of favorite Puccini arias. I wouldn't like them simply to be cut off.
> 
> How do they do it on opera highlights discs? I don't own any.


That might have something to do with it. Perhaps they accidentally swapped files from highlights albums.


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