# The Spoken Word in Music



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have known for a long time now that I do not enjoy the spoken word in music. I just heard a work by Frederic Rzewski called Coming Together for spoken word and small ensemble. The speaker speaks throughout the work reciting a letter written from prison. I loved the music, but as usual, the spoken portion detracts significantly from the work. Other examples are Copland's Lincoln Portrait and Reich's Different Trains.

I don't know why I react to the spoken word in music in this manner. The words themselves do not matter since in general I don't pay much attention to the words. Perhaps the words appear to distract from the music for me. 

Do others have a similar reaction to spoken words in music? Has anyone disliked works with spoken words but later found that they can enjoy such works?


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way! I hate spoken words in music even if it's in a foreign language I don't understand. I always felt a bit weird for feeling that way, but I'm glad I'm not alone in that regard. I agree that the words distract from the music. The words also muddy up the instrumentation that I enjoy. I may be kicked off the board for saying this, but I find Beethoven's 9th to be a bit of a disappointment due to the vocals (I have found instrumental parts of the 4th movement that have satisfied me enough even though it's not the same as actually having it in with the rest of the symphony). Some of the symphonies of Mahler that are loved around here are disappointing to me in part because of the vocals. So on and so forth. Obviously opera is out of the question for me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way! I hate spoken words in music even if it's in a foreign language I don't understand. I always felt a bit weird for feeling that way, but I'm glad I'm not alone in that regard. I agree that the words distract from the music. The words also muddy up the instrumentation that I enjoy. I may be kicked off the board for saying this, but I find Beethoven's 9th to be a bit of a disappointment due to the vocals (I have found instrumental parts of the 4th movement that have satisfied me enough even though it's not the same as actually having it in with the rest of the symphony). Some of the symphonies of Mahler that are loved around here are disappointing to me in part because of the vocals. So on and so forth. Obviously opera is out of the question for me.


But Opera isn't spoken word...?

I have enjoyed some of Tom Waits spoken word stories that he puts to music. I also enjoy Leonard Cohen, who is really spoken word, I was blown away when I heard the single from his last album, "You Want it Darker": 



 Check it out!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> But Opera isn't spoken word...?


Spoken word...sung word...it's all hated by me!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> Spoken word...sung word...it's all hated by me!


Ah, ok.

Cool!

Whatever does it for you.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Ah, ok.
> 
> Cool!
> 
> Whatever does it for you.


No offense to anyone who does like it though. We all have different tastes. Sorry for getting in a sung word rant in a thread about spoken words. To be fair to opera fans, spoken word is worse than sung word IMO. John Adams' _Christian Zeal and Activity_ is particularly odd in terms of spoken words. Who wants to listen some preacher talk about a withered hand when listening to classical music?


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> But Opera isn't spoken word...?


It depends on the opera. Some operas do include spoken dialogue in place of recitative. For example, Singspiels such as The Magic Flute. I think that Bizet's Carmen has spoken dialogue as well. However, the spoken dialogue is usually not accompanied by music--it takes place between musical numbers.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Its just gimmicky


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

The first one that leaped to mind was Aaron Copland's _Lincoln Portrait_. What do we think of that one?


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I think that spoken sections can be very effective in a musical work, depending on how they are used. I love "A Song of Thanksgiving" by Vaughan Williams, a choral work which includes some spoken passages. I particularly enjoy the passage beginning at 2:15:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Harry Partch had a way of carrying this off, at least if you're so inclined. He based Barstow on graffiti from a highway railing. It's taking the profane and turning it into chant. (Warning: There is a F-bomb in there.)


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

You could also try Richard Strauss's "Enoch Arden" where he composed piano music to accompany a recitation of Tennyson's poem. Several years ago I heard it performed by Patrick Stewart and Emanuel Ax. Glenn Gould recorded it with Claude Rains.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> You could also try Richard Strauss's "Enoch Arden" where he composed piano music to accompany a recitation of Tennyson's poem. Several years ago I heard it performed by Patrick Stewart and Emanuel Ax. Glenn Gould recorded it with Claude Rains.


Is your username based on Radiohead's guitarist, Johnny Greenwood?


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Bettina said:


> It depends on the opera. Some operas do include spoken dialogue in place of recitative. For example, Singspiels such as The Magic Flute. I think that Bizet's Carmen has spoken dialogue as well. However, the spoken dialogue is usually not accompanied by music--it takes place between musical numbers.


Carmen does, and you're right. It's an opéra comique, the French genre mixing spoken dialogue and songs. Massenet often had spoken dialogue accompanied by music.


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

Totenfeier said:


> The first one that leaped to mind was Aaron Copland's _Lincoln Portrait_. What do we think of that one?


With the right speaker? A very powerful piece indeed.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

The narration between pieces in Carnival of the Animals can enhance the experience if done well.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

I enjoy _Lincoln Portrait_, but unfortunately, every time I decide to listen to it, my contrarian nature asserts itself and I listen to P.D.Q. Bach's _Bach Portrait _instead. Although Copland's is infinitely more inspiring, it really doesn't lighten my heart the way that Peter Schickele's parody does. Otherwise, the spoken word seems an artificial distraction: the human voice exceeds any other instrument in its range of nuance, why limit it? In my ears it tends to sound out of place and grating, and breaks up the flow of music.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Bettina said:


> It depends on the opera. Some operas do include spoken dialogue in place of recitative. For example, Singspiels such as The Magic Flute. I think that Bizet's Carmen has spoken dialogue as well. However, the spoken dialogue is usually not accompanied by music--it takes place between musical numbers.


I think I might actually enjoy opera if they replaced all the dreary recitative with the simple, straightforward spoken word.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Klassik said:


> Spoken word...sung word...it's all hated by me!


Kind of provoking


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Kind of provoking


Not at all. I have my preferences, but others can like whatever they want to like without complaint from me. Surely I can't be expected to like everything. One who likes everything really likes nothing at all. Ok, maybe not, but that sounds good.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Klassik said:


> Not at all. I have my preferences, but others can like whatever they want to like without complaint from me. Surely I can't be expected to like everything. One who likes everything really likes nothing at all. Ok, maybe not, but that sounds good.


I at least wasn't at all offended. To each their own! More power to you, in fact.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Usually I don't like it. An exception is the mentioned _Different trains_ by Reich, where the effect is haunting. Well, at least I think so.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Is your username based on Radiohead's guitarist, Johnny Greenwood?


Actually I am John E. Greenwood. I am an attorney and have commenced an action in Federal Court against Radiohead demanding my share of the royalties, as I laid claim to the name long before Jonny (sic) Greenwood did.

Seriously,I am a fan or Radiohead. Especially as it seems we share an interest in Thomas Pynchon.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> Usually I don't like it. An exception is the mentioned _Different trains_ by Reich, where the effect is haunting. Well, at least I think so.


The voice clips in _Different Trains _are quite evocative, though the work overall outlasts my attention span.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Lincoln Portrait is an occasional piece, meant to inspire feelings of patriotism (and make Copland a lot of money) at times like July Fourth. It succeeds admirably in both objectives, but I'd rather visit the Lincoln Memorial.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me the definitive performance of the narration from A Lincoln Portrait comes from the great Lincoln authority, Carl Sandberg.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I guess as expected, some people enjoy works with spoken words, others dislike them, and sometimes people will like a few such works. There really aren't a large number of such works so I rarely encounter them, but I am struck by how clearly the words effect my impression of the work. Maybe someday I'll find one that I appreciate although I imagine I'll have to change my attitude towards them. Of course that's the way into all new works.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I find the "spoken words" distracting. When I listen to music, it's to get away from all the "speaking".

I love the music in Copland's A Lincoln Portrait and I wish Copland would have written it as a purely orchestral tone poem.

I already wrote that the Carl Sandberg narration is definitive for me. Even so, I would rather have the narration eliminated.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The narrator in Beethoven's Egmond is a very good example how spoken words are working.


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