# Bob Dylan: Murder Most Foul



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Isn't this the most wonderful song to listen to, during the great isolation? It's hypnotic, to me:


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I wonder if he's been listening to latter day Sun Kil Moon. That's what comes to mind with this freer, more stream-of-consciousness style of songwriting.

Anyway, it's great to hear new words from Bob. I was wondering if he'd ever get over his "Great American Songbook" phase. His voice also sounds great. Thanks for sharing.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

flamencosketches said:


> I wonder if he's been listening to latter day Sun Kil Moon. That's what comes to mind with this freer, more stream-of-consciousness style of songwriting.
> 
> Anyway, it's great to hear new words from Bob. I was wondering if he'd ever get over his "Great American Songbook" phase. His voice also sounds great. Thanks for sharing.


I wouldn't be surprised who he' listens to, he seems to have a great mind for storing songs. His voice is great on this, isn't it? and the words flow easy, almost like conversation. The arrangement is great too, if this is the sound of the rumoured new album, it has me bought. 17 minutes long! Doesn't feel like it, that's part of the beauty of it...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Kieran said:


> I wouldn't be surprised who he' listens to, *he seems to have a great mind for storing songs*. His voice is great on this, isn't it? and the words flow easy, almost like conversation. The arrangement is great too, if this is the sound of the rumoured new album, it has me bought. 17 minutes long! Doesn't feel like it, that's part of the beauty of it...


That he does, makes me miss the "Theme Time Radio Hour" he used to do on Sirius/XM. Yes, his voice sounds better than it has in years. I'm looking forward to a new album too. I haven't been following his career lately because I've been less interested in the covers albums.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

flamencosketches said:


> That he does, makes me miss the "Theme Time Radio Hour" he used to do on Sirius/XM. Yes, his voice sounds better than it has in years. I'm looking forward to a new album too. I haven't been following his career lately because I've been less interested in the covers albums.


Same here, I skipped the Frank Sinatra albums, too many others have horribly ploughed that field. I tend to skip his albums of cover versions anyway - Tempest is the last Bob album for me...


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

A return to form indeed. Great stuff.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

I love Bob's new song... but the first verse made me think of this


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

philoctetes said:


> I love Bob's new song... but the first verse made me think of this


THat's a great song, bloke has a great voice. Definitely a great speaking song, but bob has a lot of them too. I love this song though, thanks!


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Kieran said:


> THat's a great song, bloke has a great voice. Definitely a great speaking song, but bob has a lot of them too. I love this song though, thanks!


Greg Brown, from Iowa, has a huge following in the alt-folk world, has his own record company, has a number of great songs in this form... check out the title song of the album, Poet Game...

He also has a well-deserved reputation as a bad boy, I have personally sen him perform very poorly and very well... best to catch him when he's sober...

Anyway, I think Bob is trying to say something bigger... Dylan as Morpheus


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

philoctetes said:


> Greg Brown, from Iowa, has a huge following in the alt-folk world, has his own record company, has a number of great songs in this form... check out the title song of the album, Poet Game...
> 
> He also has a well-deserved reputation as a bad boy, I have personally sen him perform very poorly and very well... best to catch him when he's sober...
> 
> Anyway, I think Bob is trying to say something bigger... Dylan as Morpheus


Greg Brown has a great voice, will definitely check him out! As for Bob as Morpheus, let's hope this is the start, and there's a new album with similar instrumentation, this song has a great sound...


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

A bit of backstory for the tune -

'Murder Most Foul' Is the Bob Dylan Song We Need Right Now -

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/bob-dylan-murder-most-foul-974108/

Bob Dylan: Murder Most Foul review - a dark, dense ballad for the end times -

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...-foul-review-jfk-assassination-john-f-kennedy

A List Of The Songs Named In Bob Dylan's 'Murder Most Foul' -

https://www.npr.org/sections/allson...he-songs-named-in-bob-dylans-murder-most-foul


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Duncan said:


> A List Of The Songs Named In Bob Dylan's 'Murder Most Foul' -
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/allson...he-songs-named-in-bob-dylans-murder-most-foul


That's really interesting. The whole song is a beautiful lament, isn't it, and I'm thinking the songs and plays and films he asks to play are a solace in a troubled time. Sometimes it seems like it's President Kennedy himself, in the back of the car, with the remains of his head on Jackie's lap, requesting these songs while he passes. It's a weird, beautiful song...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

One listen was enough for me. It's a bit too mellow dramatic, literal, and name check-y.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

The song resonates deeply with old guys like me who remember where they were on the day it happened. I like the line "when you're in Deep Ellum put your money in your shoe." When I lived in Dallas I was going into that area, and I remember that one night a dentist got murdered, shot in the head. Nice place, Dallas.
This seems to be a song for older people like us who are going through the melodrama of retrospect, literal history, and the names that we remember as the people who were there in the world with us.
The only thing similar I can remember Dylan doing was a song called "Lenny Bruce," also a lament of sorts. I like that word, "lament." Nice post & insight in post #12, Kieran. Thank you, sometimes I still hurt thinking about it all. I was in the playground, it must have been the third grade. I remember The Beatles coming over, too. The world was 'holding our hand' as you are, here, Kieran. This eventually leads to Woodstock, Altamont...see how it resonates? Brilliant song, from a brilliant mind.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> The song resonates deeply with old guys like me who remember where they were on the day it happened. I like the line "when you're in Deep Ellum put your money in your shoe." When I lived in Dallas I was going into that area, and I remember that one night a dentist got murdered, shot in the head. Nice place, Dallas.
> This seems to be a song for older people like us who are going through the melodrama of retrospect, literal history, and the names that we remember as the people who were there in the world with us.
> The only thing similar I can remember Dylan doing was a song called "Lenny Bruce," also a lament of sorts. I like that word, "lament." Nice post & insight in post #12, Kieran. Thank you, sometimes I still hurt thinking about it all. I was in the playground, it must have been the third grade. I remember The Beatles coming over, too. The world was 'holding our hand' as you are, here, Kieran. This eventually leads to Woodstock, Altamont...see how it resonates? Brilliant song, from a brilliant mind.


Nice post, Millions, very evocative of a time and place long lost...

The line "When you're down on Deep Ellum, put your money in your shoe" is a Dylan riff on the Dead's "Deep Elem Blues" with the original lyric being "If you go down to *deep elm* put your money in your shoes"...

At no time in my life did I ever think that Dylan would reference a tune by Gerry and The Pacemakers -

"Slide down the banister, go get your coat
* Ferry 'cross the Mersey* and go for the throat"

Here's another article on the backstory -

"*Beyond JFK: 20 Historical References in Bob Dylan's 'Murder Most Foul'*"

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-murder-most-foul-jfk-references-974147/


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> The song resonates deeply with old guys like me who remember where they were on the day it happened. I like the line "when you're in Deep Ellum put your money in your shoe." When I lived in Dallas I was going into that area, and I remember that one night a dentist got murdered, shot in the head. Nice place, Dallas.
> This seems to be a song for older people like us who are going through the melodrama of retrospect, literal history, and the names that we remember as the people who were there in the world with us.
> The only thing similar I can remember Dylan doing was a song called "Lenny Bruce," also a lament of sorts. I like that word, "lament." Nice post & insight in post #12, Kieran. Thank you, sometimes I still hurt thinking about it all. I was in the playground, it must have been the third grade. I remember The Beatles coming over, too. The world was 'holding our hand' as you are, here, Kieran. This eventually leads to Woodstock, Altamont...see how it resonates? Brilliant song, from a brilliant mind.


I wasn't alive when JFK was killed, but his life and death certainly had a deep resonance in Ireland. My parents were coming out of the Adelphi cinema on Abbey Street when they heard the news. It became a moment measured to be bigger than any other: do you remember where you were when they killed President Kennedy? And then Bobby Kennedy, then MLK. Though all these men might deserve closer scrutiny in different ways had they lived and worked now, it's clear that at the time they represented a new future for America, in terms of moving on from the older generation from WW2. New leadership, and new movements, especially in terms of race.

And new hope, that was quashed and left a huge scar in the American psyche. This anyway, is how it seems to me. It maybe a superficial reading, but culturally, these three assassinations affected American confidence extremely. And this is what the song is addressing, for me. A worried nation in decline, lacking confidence. Even Dylan refers to Kennedy as "the King", which in a republic brings memories of learning that Mark Antony tried three times to place the crown on the head of Caesar. Sometimes a man may transcend the politics in a way that's not justified, but is still natural. We romanticise, and this is often good for us. But when the romance dies, the lamenting begins. When the romance dies at the hand of violence, then chaos ensues.

From the POV of the song, I think it starts awkwardly but then hits an unstoppable stride, with a performance as masterly as Dylan has ever give. I love the occasional pauses, like just before the line, "play something for the Birdman of Alcatraz", a deeply satisfying line, coming after "all that junk, all that jazz." Beautiful surprise pay-offs, like "play it for me, and Marilyn Monroe"

And maybe humour too, because I've read that Bud Powell didn't actually sing, Take Me or Leave Me, but rather, he repurposed the tune for this - in a very Dylan-like way - for a song called Get It. Wonderful stuff, brilliantly intelligent song, deeply moving too...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Duncan said:


> At no time in my life did I ever think that Dylan would reference a tune by Gerry and The Pacemakers -
> 
> "Slide down the banister, go get your coat
> * Ferry 'cross the Mersey* and go for the throat"
> ...


Thanks for the article, Duncan!

Yeah, his range of references is incredible, really, and in the space of a few seconds, he scoops up Stevie Nicks, Clark Gable and Carole Lombard (It Happened One Night), Elvis (One Night of Sin), Terry Malloy, and Lady MacBeth. It's beyond mere list-making really, isn't it? It's too deliberately panoramic. I've been using this helpful site for the lyric references:

https://genius.com/Bob-dylan-murder-most-foul-lyrics

It gives this wonderful suggestion, though who knows if it's true?



> Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" is actually in C-sharp minor, but that doesn't rhyme. Dylan clearly has taken some poetic license!
> The fact that Dylan is asking the audience to play "Moonlight Sonata" in the wrong key might also reflect the upside-down state that the nation was in following Kennedy's assassination.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Kieran said:


> Thanks for the article, Duncan!
> 
> Yeah, his range of references is incredible, really, and in the space of a few seconds, he scoops up Stevie Nicks, Clark Gable and Carole Lombard (It Happened One Night), Elvis (One Night of Sin), Terry Malloy, and Lady MacBeth. It's beyond mere list-making really, isn't it? It's too deliberately panoramic. I've been using this helpful site for the lyric references:
> 
> ...


If you run through what are literally rhyming moon with June lyrics -

Play "Misty" for me and "That Old Devil *Moon*"
Play "Anything Goes" and "Memphis in *Jun**e*"

Play "Lonely at the Top" and "Lonely Are the *Brave*"
Play it for Houdini spinning around in his *grave*

Play Jelly Roll Morton, play "*Lucille*"
Play "Deep in a Dream", and play "Driving *Wheel*"

Play "Moonlight Sonata" in F-*sharp*
And "A Key to the Highway" for the king on the *harp*

Play "Marching Through Georgia" and "Dumbarton's* Drums*"
Play darkness and death will come when it *comes*

Play "Love Me or Leave Me" by the great Bud *Powell*
Play "The Blood-Stained Banner", play "Murder Most* Foul*"

"Sharp" rhymes with "harp" thus the line reading...

I don't think that even the most delusional Dylan fan (yes, you Barbebleu - :lol would be able to admit with a straight face that Dylan had even the vaguest idea that "Moonlight Sonata" was actually in C-sharp minor and not F♯ as he doesn't have the ability to read music and thus I'm not entirely certain that he knows what C-sharp minor even means...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

In a (slight) defense of old Bob, he's known to have a liking for classical music, but I definitely agree, the rhyme was easier with F-sharp and it probably rolled off his tongue and he wouldn't be interested in fact-checking it either. He doesn't give facts pride of place in his songs, when they might ruin a good line. :lol:

The rhymes are all easy-peasy rhymes, moon-in June, but it kinda feels conversational so I wouldn't hang him on it (and I'm sure that isn't your point).

A tiny thought strikes me that he watched The Irishman, with its recurring line, "it is what it is", and its theme of betrayal and the true power behind the throne, but I doubt he wrote this song because of that. I don't know when or why he wrote it, but hopefully it means he has an album ready to be unleashed.

By the way, does anyone know what instruments are used here? It seems like a cello at the start? Isn't there a violin or a viola too? Is Bob playing the piano? Doesn't sound like his normal style...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

It's been noted by jazz historian Ted Gioia that Bud Powell didn't play Love Me, Or Leave Me. Makes for for a good line, though.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

starthrower said:


> It's been noted by jazz historian Ted Gioia that Bud Powell didn't play Love Me, Or Leave Me. Makes for for a good line, though.


The suggestion has been made elsewhere that Bud Powell used elements of Love Me or Leave Me to create a new song, in a very Dylan'like method, inferring that perhaps old Bob is joking a little here...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

He most likely improvised a new melody over the same chord changes which is what the beboppers did. Charlie Parker was famous for that.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Kieran said:


> By the way, does anyone know what instruments are used here? It seems like a cello at the start? Isn't there a violin or a viola too? Is Bob playing the piano? Doesn't sound like his normal style...


"Piano, violin, and light percussion..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_Most_Foul_(song)


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

starthrower said:


> He most likely improvised a new melody over the same chord changes which is what the beboppers did. Charlie Parker was famous for that.


I think that's true. Dylan has done the same, many times, it's a valid "theft", one that both enriches the culture while providing reference to it too...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Post 16:



Kieran said:


> ...I've read that Bud Powell didn't actually sing, Take Me or Leave Me, but rather, he repurposed the tune for this - in a very Dylan-like way - for a song called Get It.





Kieran said:


> ...Dylan has done the same, many times, it's a valid "theft", one that both enriches the culture while providing reference to it too...


Yes, the folk tradition uses 'formulas' in the same way jazzers use tunes like Sweet Georgia Brown, I Got Rhythm, etc. You can hear some of this on the first couple of Dylan albums.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> Yes, the folk tradition uses 'formulas' in the same way jazzers use tunes like Sweet Georgia Brown, I Got Rhythm, etc. You can hear some of this on the first couple of Dylan albums.


I think then, it's humorous to hear Dylan refer to Bud Powell's source song.

I'm listening again to the song, I think there must be overdubs, there's two string instruments going at the same time...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Kieran said:


> I think then, it's humorous to hear Dylan refer to Bud Powell's source song.
> 
> I'm listening again to the song, I think there must be overdubs, there's two string instruments going at the same time...


You're probably catching some resonances here that younger people will miss. In this sense, I think this is Dylan talking to "us" as his old standby audience, now oldsters like him, who were there with him, in his lifetime. That's very sweet of him. I consider it like reading a letter...a letter from a dear old friend.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Duncan said:


> If you run through what are literally rhyming moon with June lyrics -
> 
> Play "Misty" for me and "That Old Devil *Moon*"
> Play "Anything Goes" and "Memphis in *Jun**e*"
> ...


Delusional sir? How very dare you. It's pistols at dawn. If I'm not there by ten past, start without me!:tiphat:


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Actually, while the song is pretty simple, I think Bob deserves more credit... is not the F# scale same as the C# Mixolydian scale... which as a harmonica and piano player, Bob may actually know quite well...he has led bands all his career and one doesn't even have to sight-read notes on a staff to read a key signature and "guess" the key,, and it would be quite easy to mistake F# for the tonic instead of C#, as they are just a fourth apart...

Would not be surprised if he can actually play MS on the harmonica...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

philoctetes said:


> Actually, while the song is pretty simple, I think Bob deserves more credit... is not the F# scale same as the C# Mixolydian scale... which as a harmonica and piano player, Bob may actually know quite well...he has led bands all his career and one doesn't even have to sight-read notes on a staff to read a key signature and "guess" the key,, and it would be quite easy to mistake F# for the tonic instead of C#, as they are just a fourth apart...
> 
> Would not be surprised if he can actually play MS on the harmonica...


I was with you until you made me imagine Bob playing the moonlight sonata on his harmonica. :lol:

This is interesting. I don't think any songwriter inspires people as much as Dylan, and one area where fans and Dylanologists (for this, they are called) go really deep is in analysing his words, tracing sources and meanings, trying to understand the songs better. This is a fairly compelling and convincing example, which I found on Scott Warmuth's Twitter feed. A reference to Eminem's recent song, Darkness. I think this is true, and makes sense:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244007347787165698


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Kieran said:


> I was with you until you made me imagine Bob playing the moonlight sonata on his harmonica. :lol:
> 
> This is interesting. I don't think any songwriter inspires people as much as Dylan, and one area where fans and Dylanologists (for this, they are called) go really deep is in analysing his words, tracing sources and meanings, trying to understand the songs better. This is a fairly compelling and convincing example, which I found on Scott Warmuth's Twitter feed. A reference to Eminem's recent song, Darkness. I think this is true, and makes sense:
> 
> ...


I can play Pavane for a Dead Princess, the Gigue from Bach's 147, a lot of Dvorak's S9, Brahms S2/m3 (similar to Nature Boy)).... Bob's style is not really for classical but a lot of people don't know how difficult some of his harmonica solos are...


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Kieran said:


> I was with you until you made me imagine Bob playing the moonlight sonata on his harmonica. :lol:
> 
> This is interesting. I don't think any songwriter inspires people as much as Dylan, and one area where fans and Dylanologists (for this, they are called) go really deep is in analysing his words, tracing sources and meanings, trying to understand the songs better. This is a fairly compelling and convincing example, which I found on Scott Warmuth's Twitter feed. A reference to Eminem's recent song, Darkness. I think this is true, and makes sense:
> 
> ...


OMG there is a horror lurking in that Twitter feed... John Prine has been hospitalized... Joan Baez singing Hello in There...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Dylan can play the "Moonshine Sonata" on his harmonica.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> Dylan can play the "Moonshine Sonata" on his harmonica.


He's the king of the harp!


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## Moon Unit (Jun 3, 2020)

Kieran said:


> He's the king of the harp!


Exactly! I think this one has been solved. All the clues are in this video -






"Play Moonlight Sonata in F-sharp"


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

It's actually not that new, I read somewhere it's a few years old. He just released it now. I like it too.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

regenmusic said:


> It's actually not that new, I read somewhere it's a few years old. He just released it now. I like it too.


I think those rumours have been off the mark. The reliable sleuths have debunked the idea that it's an old song by tracing the recording studio activities, which narrow it down to a recording in LA in either January or February this year, and also interviews with the likes of Robbie Robertson and Gina Gershon which mention Dylan showing them new lyrics recently.

I'm only pointing this out in anticipation of his new album next week, to suggest that the fires are still burning and that he's not scrambling together stuff to appease a contract. And I can't wait for this record! They've gone silent now for a few weeks, since they released False Prophet, so we don't even have a full track list but the expectation is high, given what we know so far...


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