# New Listener - Where to start?



## DoeSteve

Hi guys,

Ive just recently developed an interest/appreciation for classical music (before that, I just listened to whatever was mainstream at the time)

anyways, as many of you know, there is a LOT of classical music out there (its pretty overwhelming) and as a new listener, I dont know where to start my collection. I'm willing to buy whatever music/cd that's required, but again, I dont know where to begin.

I've started with the mega-famous composers - Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, but after those I start getting kind of lost.

Personally, I'm 19 years old, second year university, and honestly, not a lot of people in my demographic listen to this type of music (w/the exception of musicians, music majors) and it's hard to get solid advice.

Anyways, my question to you guys is: What specific cd's/composers do you recommend for somebody who has never really listened to classical music before? I'd like enough music now to last me to the end of the summer.

Additionally, are there any resources that you recommend for somebody who has no experience with composed music? I mean I don't really know what a forte or canto or any of those terms really mean. Is this necessary for me to appreciate it/analyze the piece, or am I getting ahead of myself.

I think that covers my general questions for now. I'm sure youll be hearing more from me soon.

Thanks.


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## DoeSteve

Again, to clarify, I'm looking for what is required for me to be a legitimate, intellectual participant of the classical music community. I have no real preference, for now, as to what's recommended, just that it's legitimate.

Additionally, I would like to start attending the opera on occasion. Any information as to how to get involved/up to speed in that regard? I'm extremely dedicated and willing to spend as much time as necessary.

Note: I have no previous music-playing experience or background. I don't know if that's significant, I would just like to state so.


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## bassClef

You're right - the genre is HUGE and also very varied - so perhaps you'd better tell us what you like so far, whether you like full-orchestral, choral, operatic, chamber, light or heavy, etc. What other types of music do you like?

There's quite a few web sites where you can preview the music before you buy - eg. Amazon, ClassicsOnline - so those could be good places to browse to get you pointed in the right drection, or at least the direction that will give you the most enjoyment from your study.

I'd also recommend doing some reading - as far as building a good collection of music I've found this book to be the most useful - it's become my bible. It's not a full musical reference by any means but I've found it invaluable - full of useful info and great recommendations.


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## DoeSteve

Wow, thanks. I'll definitely look into that book, sounds good and 15pounds is nothing for 1000 pages.

Um, in terms of genre, I'm too much of an amateur to really know what the difference between choral, operatic, chamber, etc really is. I think this is one of the reasons a lot of people in my age tend tend to become discouraged when just entering the classical music world and just turn to hip hop or something easier to enter.

One thing I CAN tell you is that Moonlight Sonata is what got me into wanting to learn classical music. I mean that song is amazing to a whole different level.

Nevertheless, once I find out my favorite branch, you'll be the first to know. I'm sorry I couldnt be more helpful.


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## bassClef

hip hop? - no please don't go there! Stay with us!!


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## mueske

DoeSteve said:


> Wow, thanks. I'll definitely look into that book, sounds good and 15pounds is nothing for 1000 pages.
> 
> Um, in terms of genre, I'm too much of an amateur to really know what the difference between choral, operatic, chamber, etc really is. I think this is one of the reasons a lot of people in my age tend tend to become discouraged when just entering the classical music world and just turn to hip hop or something easier to enter.
> 
> One thing I CAN tell you is that Moonlight Sonata is what got me into wanting to learn classical music. I mean that *song*is amazing to a whole different level.
> 
> Nevertheless, once I find out my favorite branch, you'll be the first to know. I'm sorry I couldnt be more helpful.


The term 'piece' would be more appropriate.

Try all of Beethoven's symphonies, numbers 3,5,7 and 9 are the most popular, but the others are also amazing pieces. 
Also a good way to expand on Beethoven are his piano sonata. Numbers 8, 21 and 23 are amongst the most popular (beside no. 14 ie. the moonlight), you should check them out. If you like them, why not listen to the rest? There's 32 of them, all of them sublime pieces of music.

For mozart, listen to the late symphonies, 37 - 41. Also, his piano concerti, numbers 20 to 25 are a great way into Mozart. And of course, all of his opera's!

Tchaikovksy is also a good composer for 'beginners'. Symphonies no. 4, 5 and 6 are great introductions to this Russian composer. There is also the first piano concerto and the violin concerto, both very popular. His ballets can also be a good start into his music, and other russian music.

To get more familiar with chamber music, you could try Brahms. His clarinet quintet, clarinet sonata, piano trio's , and the piano quartets are all good introductions into chamber music, in my opinion at least.


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## emiellucifuge

well first of all, the sonata is not a song - a song is a short piece with some singing. 

Chamber music is all the music for small ensembles such as string quartets or piano trios. I recommend Beethovens string quartets to start, but ill leave this genre to the expert.

Symphonies are large scale orchestral works that have evolved a lot through the centuries, by far my favorite form. Try a good range - Beethovens 5th maybe as well as his 6th and 9th, Moazrts 40th-41st, Mahlers 2nd, Sibelius 2nd, Dvorak 9th,Mendelssohn 4th.

Concertos are pieces for a solo instruments against an accompanying orchestra, usually of lot of virtuosity in the solo part. Mozarts piano concertos are a nice place to start, Dvoraks cello concertos also.


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## bassClef

Going beyond Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, I'd try these for starters in the Orchestral sphere:

Stravinsky - The Firebird Suite (more digestable than his Rite of Spring for beginners I think)
Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique
Debussy - Prelude a L'Apres Midi d'un Faune
Dvorak - 9th Symphony
Ravel - Daphnis & Chloe
Rimsky Korsakov - Scheherezade
Schubert - 8th Symphony
Sibelius - Karelia Suite, Pohjola's Daughter
Vaughan Williams - 5th Symphony
Mahler - 2nd Symphony
(some have vocal/choral elements)

Then for operatic :
Verdi - probably best to get some highlights from all his operas to see what you like then go from there.
Rossini - as above
Bernstein - Candide
Bizet - Carmen
Borodin - Prince Igor
Wagner - The Ring cycle (when you are ready - I've only ever listened to all of it once!)

And choral/vocal:
Orff - Carmina Burana
Britten - War Requiem
Prokofiev - Alexander Nevsky

I can't really advise on piano works and chamber music since I'm not knowledgeable in these spheres - though you could try the Schubert trios and Rachmaninov's 2nd piano concerto to start you off.

Avoid the "Only Classical Album You'll Ever Need" type compilations - they are poor. Try to listen to works in their entirety and read up the liner notes while you listen, find out about the composer and what he's trying to convey in the music. Some would say this is necessary for opera too but I'd dip your toe in first, to see what direction it takes you.


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## Toccata

In my opinion you would be better off listening to Classic FM (assuming you have access to it) for a few weeks in order to find out what genres you like. Then come back and ask for specific advice in those areas you have gained some interest and knowledge in.

This is because the scope of classical music is vast and I bet you will not like huge chunks of it if you were exposed to it all in an uncontrolled way. They tend to play only the popular stuff on CFM. You will soon become sick to death with CFM but it's a much cheaper alternative than making expensive mistakes buying CDs, some or all of which you probably won't like.

A problem to watch out for is that some people on Boards like this have spent time researching areas of interest to them and they tend to assume that their tastes will be enjoyed by others. I rarely find this to be the case in practice. Newbies tend to like Beethoven, Mozart, Handel, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius, Dvorak, Vivaldi. Depending on their country of origin they may also like a national composer (Elgar, Ives, Villa-Lobos, Suk, De Falla, Chopin etc). But beyond that interest tends to wane rapidly until they have spent much longer absorbing the finer points of classical music.

If despite this you would like to see a more detailed set of recommendations right now THIS THREAD is quite useful. The member who compiled this list referred to it as a "basic repertoire". As you will see, it's a list of major composers in alphabetical order with recommendations for their works and recordings. It's quite comprehensive and covers most of the genres in which the composers wrote. As I said, I wouldn't suggest you dive into this list until you have acquired more experience.


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## emiellucifuge

I think another good idea would be if I just named a few composers with recommended pieces and let you figure it out for yourself.

THese composers are all up there on that lofty rung along with the ones you mentioned:

Mahler - Symphonies 8, 9, 2.
Mendelssohn - Symphonies 4, 5 Midsummer Nights dream.
Tchaikovsky - Nutcracker and Swan Lake, Symphony 6, 1st Piano concerto.
Schubert - Quintet "Trout", Symphony 8
Schumann - 3rd symphony, MAnfred OVerture, 3rd string quartet, 1st piano trio
Wagner (operas) The ring, Tristan Und Isold
Prokofiev - 1 & 5 symphonies
Dvorak - Symphonies 7,8, 9 . Cello concertos, slavonic dances.

Vivaldi - Four Seasons

Bartok - String quartets 4, 5, 6, Music for percussion and celesta.


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## LvB

The Moonlight Sonata was one of the pieces which first got me really listening to classical music. It was amazing to me how much variety of sound and emotion could be contained within such a short time. You've definitely started out on a good path. 

Given that you responded to a piano piece so strongly, I'm going to recommend mostly piano music to start with. As you discover composers whose piano music you like, you might want to explore their other pieces, and work out from there. So--

For Beethoven, try the Sonatas #3 (especially the _Adagio_; #8 in c minor, "Pathetique;" #17 in d minor, "The Tempest," #21 in C Major, "Waldstein," and #23 in f minor, "Appassionata." After these, try the third and fourth piano concertos, then the fifth and sixth symphonies. By this time, you'll have a pretty good idea of what you're looking for in Beethoven, and can explore the rest of his music.

Another piano composer you will almost certainly enjoy is Frederic Chopin. To get an overview of Chopin's styles, start with the 24 Preludes, Op. 28, and the etudes, Op. 10. For drama, try the Ballades, especially #1 in g minor and #2 in F Major, and the Polonaises, especially Op. 26 in c# minor, Op. 40 in A major ("military"), and Op. 53 in A-Flat Major. Also the second sonata, in b-flat minor (which has the famous funeral march in it). More reflective music is found in the Nocturnes; the Waltzes are a mix of gentle and exuberant; my favorite in that one in c# minor, Op. 64, #2.

After Chopin the field opens massively, and you'll have tones of music to try. Some suggestions, still grounded in a connection with the 'Moonlight' Sonata:

--Alexander Scriabin: Etudes, Op.8 and Op. 42 (his later music becomes more dissonant and might take come getting used to-- though it is certainly worth exploring)
--Anton Rubinstein: Piano Sonata #3 in F Major, Op. 41; Three caprices, Op. 21, and Three serenades, Op. 22 (these are lovely; get the Leslie Howard recording). Rubinstein also wrote one of the most famous short piano pieces ever, the 'Melody in F, Op. 3,#1, which you, like millions of people over the last 150 years, enjoy. If you do, try his other short piano pieces (known as "salon music") such as _A la Fenetre_ or the Romance, Op. 44,#1. After these, try his fourth piano concerto and second symphony ("Ocean"), his most popular works in these forms.
--Johannes Brahms: Brahms can be a little tricky, and some people new to classical music find him a little hard to follow at first. Try the Piano Concerto #1 in d minor, Op. 15 (the Leon Fleischer recording with George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra, for my taste, but this is a subject which can be argued endlessly) or one of the piano sonatas (he wrote three). Moving out from there, the natural first stop is the first symphony, though you should also try the Piano Quintet in f minor, Op. 34 (very dramatic).
--Pyotr Tchaikovsky: His solo piano music isn't very important, but his first piano concerto, Op. 23, in b-flat minor, is a surefire thriller (it was either the first or second LP I bought on my own). If you like it, you'll probably like his orchestral music-- and by that time you'll be well on the way to knowing your own tastes...

Enjoy!


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## kg4fxg

*Start with books?*

Hello,

For me and I still love to read books that helps me understand the pieces that are recommended here.

I am currently reading Classical Music 101 A Complete Guide to Learning and Loving Classical Music by Fred Plotkin. There is also an Opera and Ballet version.

I am going through it a second time. Got it for just pennies on amazon used.

There are many used books on amazon for just pennies that describe the basic repertoire
and some come with a few CD's. With in these books you will find what you like that is considered the basic repertoire - what is a must to have in your collection.

If you search the internet it is not hard to find lists of the standards, and from there to experiement or drift into what you like. I find the books help me understand a piece better than just listening to it. These books are a good introduction to the composer, puts you into a period like say Baroque, and may explain the piece by movements.

I hope this helps....


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## mueske

emiellucifuge said:


> I think another good idea would be if I just named a few composers with recommended pieces and let you figure it out for yourself.
> 
> THese composers are all up there on that lofty rung along with the ones you mentioned:
> 
> Mahler - Symphonies 8, 9, 2.
> Mendelssohn - Symphonies 4, 5 Midsummer Nights dream.
> Tchaikovsky - Nutcracker and Swan Lake, Symphony 6, 1st Piano concerto.
> Schubert - Quintet "Trout", Symphony 8
> Schumann - 3rd symphony, MAnfred OVerture, 3rd string quartet, 1st piano trio
> Wagner (operas) The ring, Tristan Und Isold
> Prokofiev - 1 & 5 symphonies
> Dvorak - Symphonies 7,8, 9 . Cello concertos, slavonic dances.
> 
> Vivaldi - Four Seasons
> 
> Bartok - String quartets 4, 5, 6, Music for percussion and celesta.


Mahler for a beginner? My first gripe with that would be, that it is rather heavy music, very emotional at times, it could be overwhelming. And then there is duration. 80 minute mammoths for someone new to all of this, seems a bit much. Same for Wagner.

I agree with all the others you mentioned though. Except maybe Bartok's music for strings percussion and celesta, I'd recommend concerto for orchestra as on introduction for Bartok, as music for strings percussion and celesta is rather 'obscure' piece.


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## JAKE WYB

emiellucifuge said:


> I think another good idea would be if I just named a few composers with recommended pieces and let you figure it out for yourself.
> 
> THese composers are all up there on that lofty rung along with the ones you mentioned:
> 
> Mahler - Symphonies 8, 9, 2.
> Mendelssohn - Symphonies 4, 5 Midsummer Nights dream.
> Tchaikovsky - Nutcracker and Swan Lake, Symphony 6, 1st Piano concerto.
> Schubert - Quintet "Trout", Symphony 8
> Schumann - 3rd symphony, MAnfred OVerture, 3rd string quartet, 1st piano trio
> Wagner (operas) The ring, Tristan Und Isold
> Prokofiev - 1 & 5 symphonies
> Dvorak - Symphonies 7,8, 9 . Cello concertos, slavonic dances.
> 
> Vivaldi - Four Seasons
> 
> *Bartok - String quartets 4, 5, 6, Music for percussion and celesta*.


the bartok quartets arent a good place to begin with in that chamber genre
For earlier music my introdutions were-

*Schubert - symphonies 5 and 8, death and the maiden quartet
Brahms - symphonies 1-4, piano concerto 1, tragic overture, piano quintet
Dvorak - symphonies 7-9, the water goblin, cello concerto

For 20th century

Holst - Planet Suite
Stravinsky - Petrushka(1945 version) Firebird, Rite of Spring
Bartok - Concerto for orchestra, dance suite, 3 piano concertos
Shostakovich - 11th symhony
Vaughan williams - tallis fantasia, lark ascending, symphony 5, Job
Sibelius - Symphonies 1-7, en saga, the oceanides, 
Bax - Spring fire, syphony 5, Tintagel, Nympholept
*
trust me you cant go wrong with that - one very important tip -

never make a judgement on a composer based on his most poupluar and accessible works - I have always regretted the many times i have done that - for example I dismissed sibelius for years based on his most popular works - Finlandia, Karelia suite, Valse Triste - which are not representativeof his output. Sometimes it is necessary to be adventurous to find what you like and not to rely on the general concensus


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## Mirror Image

DoeSteve said:


> My question to you guys is: What specific cd's/composers do you recommend for somebody who has never really listened to classical music before?


This is a very tough question, because when I started seriously listening to classical I just dove right in with no recommendations at all.

Anyway, I'm going to try and limit my choices to five composers with two recommendations of recordings:

Vaughan Williams:

1. Fantasies; The Lark Ascending; Five Variants, Neville Marriner, Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, Argo (Decca)

2. The Complete Symphonies, Sir Adrian Boult, EMI, 8-CD set

Tchaikovsky:

1. The Complete Symphonies, Leonard Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony, 5-CD set

2. Swan Lake (complete ballet), Wolfgang Sawallisch, Philadelphia Orch., EMI, 2-CD set

Rachmaninov:

1. The Symphonies, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Royal Concertgebouw Orch., Decca, 3-CD set

2. Piano Concertos 1-4, Andre Previn, London Symphony Orch., Decca, 2-CD set

Brahms:

1. The Symphonies, Georg Solti, Chicago Symphony Orch., Decca, 4-CD set

2. Concertos for Piano No. 1 & 2, Eugen Jochum, Berlin Philharmonic, Deutsche Grammophon, 2-CD set

Mendelssohn:

1. The Symphonies, Herbert von Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic, Deutsche Grammophon, 3-CD set

2. Piano Concertos, Neville Marriner, Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, Sony

Good luck to you.


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## emiellucifuge

Alright you guys, I added Mahler simply because he was one of the first composers I enjoyed, and I wasnt sure what kind of musical background the asker is coming from.

Bartok - im sure youre both right, the list was hasty - but I was trying to put an overview of everything, I think those are good representations of earlier 20th century stuff.


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## JAKE WYB

The bartok quartets are a great place to END UP - of course you can never tell who will take to stuff at once and who will need a year or two or who just wont get it - it took me years to enjoy them fully and it can easily put people off when hearing some of the composers greatest but less accessible works - 

JANACEK - quartets perhaps may be a different story


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## emiellucifuge

Oh someone who mentioned it being hard to get into Brahms, well start with the Hungarian dances then!


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## DoeSteve

woww thanks guys. i knew that this was definitely the place to start. This is a much better response than i ever imagined.

I'll investigate some of the more frequently mentioned names as well as try to get involved in different genres. I'll let you know what I think and how it worked out for me.

Thanks again for all your replies.


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## DoeSteve

Oh, and I'm sorry for referring to Moonlight Sonata as a song. I guess that was just an amateur mistake. Thanks for correcting me.


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## Dim7

JAKE WYB said:


> The bartok quartets are a great place to END UP - of course you can never tell who will take to stuff at once and who will need a year or two or who just wont get it - it took me years to enjoy them fully and it can easily put people off when hearing some of the composers greatest but less accessible works -
> 
> JANACEK - quartets perhaps may be a different story


It's funny - I never found them particularly "difficult", while on the hand supposedly more accessible works like Concerto for Orchestra or Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta I still don't like, after repeated listens. I have pretty high tolerance for chromaticism & dissonance, but I have more problems with structural complexity.


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## JoeGreen

emiellucifuge said:


> Alright you guys, I added Mahler simply because he was one of the first composers I enjoyed, and I wasnt sure what kind of musical background the asker is coming from.
> 
> Bartok - im sure youre both right, the list was hasty - but I was trying to put an overview of everything, I think those are good representations of earlier 20th century stuff.


The 1st Symphony by Mahler, might actually be pretty digestible for a beginner.


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## PartisanRanger

Good luck in your excursion into classical music, DoeSteve. I was in your shoes less than a year ago. I have found that this forum is a great resource for finding pieces and composers worth exploring.


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## Dim7

IMO the only really "difficult" aspect about Mahler is the length of his symphonies. His music uses mostly fairly traditional minor-major tonality and it is pretty melodic. When he uses chromaticism he uses it in rather obvious "Now here's a stormy chromatic section!" way and not so much confusing and unpredictable way like modernists. Though romantic period music in general may be difficult to follow for a beginner.


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## mueske

JoeGreen said:


> The 1st Symphony by Mahler, might actually be pretty digestible for a beginner.


Or perhaps the fouth, maybe even fifth.

But 2,8 and 9 just seems too much. All are over an hour long, and no. 9 is such a dramatic work, that if it was my first symphony ever, I'd be so overwhelmed, I'd feel uncomfortable.


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## JAKE WYB

My introduction to mahler fairly early on was symphony 2 - the 1st and 3rd movments only however - sometimes as heretical as it feels, its perhaps bveneficial to to take excerpts as I loved those parts of the 2nd symphony - the latter half of symphony 2 was a step too far - until I saw it live.

i think its important to see the music live as soon as you strart listening and if theres any piece id recommend to see live is Mahler symphony 2 - its not that heavy going becasue each movement is so varied and colourful and the dramatic impetus is constantly gripping


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## Mirror Image

JAKE WYB said:


> My introduction to mahler fairly early on was symphony 2 - the 1st and 3rd movments only however - sometimes as heretical as it feels, its perhaps bveneficial to to take excerpts as I loved those parts of the 2nd symphony - the latter half of symphony 2 was a step too far - until I saw it live.
> 
> i think its important to see the music live as soon as you strart listening and if theres any piece id recommend to see live is Mahler symphony 2 - its not that heavy going becasue each movement is so varied and colourful and the dramatic impetus is constantly gripping


I would much rather see Mahler's Symphony No. 5 live than Symphony No. 2, although that would be a wonderful concert experience as well.


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