# Does/Can cover art influence your impression of classical music for the better/worse?



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Sometimes, I have noticed that unappealing covers to albums have given me low opinions to music. This is only to music I am unfamiliar with and, perhaps, by composers that I am somewhat uncertain about.

What do you think?

Or, if you consume digital files (where there is no cover), does a lack of preconceptions influence your impression? Or does it reduce your interest?

For me, this can sometimes make the music less interesting to want to get into (unless I already know the composer, of course).


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Sometimes, I have noticed that unappealing covers to albums have given me low opinions to music. This is only to music I am unfamiliar with and, perhaps, by composers that I am somewhat uncertain about.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> ...


Generally, I am not influenced by the covers unless they are _really_ good or bad.
With digital files, the lack of a cover does not reduce my interest, and may even encourage me to pay more attention to the composer and title.


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

Not in the least. I do admire great covers, but it means nothing if the content/s of the album are not to my liking. Also, a lack of cover doesn't influence my impression of the music at all, at least for me. If the music sounds good to my ear, that's sufficient enough. But of course a great album cover is always appreciated. :tiphat:


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Nah, the cover art usually doesn't influence my opinion of Classical Music. Though, It does influence my opinion of Rock Music and some other genres where they try harder to capture the feeling of the album with the cover (usually more for the worst cause the covers can be really cheesy, especially when they are trying too hard to be "hardcore").


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Of course, the cover art is entirely unrelated to the music. I recognize that. But, when I see an album in a store or the cover displayed online and it is music by an unfamiliar composer that I am not sure whether I want to explore, I might reject the album (unless I later learn more about it).

I was thinking of an album I used to own in the '70s, by Franz Liszt, who I didn't know anything about, except that he was a piano whiz. I was in my late teens/early 20s at the time and just getting into classical music.

Here is the (horrid to me) cover:









This album was always a sore thumb in my collection, because I thought it so ugly and I never got into the music because of it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Maybe apropos to album covers, an experiment from many years ago. A group of randomly-selected males was split, again randomly, into two groups. Group A was shown a series of photos of cars and asked to estimate what each car cost. Group B was shown the same photos, but with beautiful girls posed along with the cars, and asked the same question. On average, group B guessed several thousand dollars higher than group A.

Appearances count, it seems.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I want to say "no." But I know I'm highly sensitive to visual imagery. I suspect that when I was younger I reacted to recordings, their covers, and their inserts as if they were part of a single enchanting experience. Even the smell of certain albums had a magic (the smells of the Solti _Ring_'s boxes and libretto booklets - the very paper and ink - were intoxicating!). I, like many others I suspect, have fond, indelible memories of certain album graphics, and still associate them with the music they accompanied. I think, though, that after decades of listening to multiple performances of favorite works and looking at their individual graphics, my opinions of musical works are at least as unaffected by particular graphics as by particular performances.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I started buying LPs in my high school years. Graphics on a 12" x 12" surface! I have always gone for the repertoire, often the modern / contemporary leaving no choice or perhaps two choices Cover art has never influenced me; it is what is on the recording that counts, the rep and the performers.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Of course, the cover art is entirely unrelated to the music. I recognize that. But, when I see an album in a store or the cover displayed online and it is music by an unfamiliar composer that I am not sure whether I want to explore, I might reject the album (unless I later learn more about it).
> 
> I was thinking of an album I used to own in the '70s, by Franz Liszt, who I didn't know anything about, except that he was a piano whiz. I was in my late teens/early 20s at the time and just getting into classical music.
> 
> ...


Just wait till you get that old.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> Of course, the cover art is entirely unrelated to the music. I recognize that. But, when I see an album in a store or the cover displayed online and it is music by an unfamiliar composer that I am not sure whether I want to explore, I might reject the album (unless I later learn more about it).
> 
> I was thinking of an album I used to own in the '70s, by Franz Liszt, who I didn't know anything about, except that he was a piano whiz. I was in my late teens/early 20s at the time and just getting into classical music.
> 
> ...


I recognise that guy:


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)




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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

Of course it can, and of course it does, to each and every one of us. The questions are: how much or how little? And, how conscious or subconscious is the influence?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The cover art has nothing to do with the music. It doesn't influence me.
If it's Heifetz or Rubinstein "inside", who cares?


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

hpowders said:


> The cover art has nothing to do with the music. It doesn't influence me.
> If it's Heifetz or Rubinstein "inside", who cares?


It does influence you. Sounds like it's purely subconscious in your case.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

A kitschy cover can at times make me loose interest, unless I already know the performer or composer being interesting. For example, Westminsters LP covers are often tasteless, satirical or mysteriously humourous, yet the soloists make up for it. Usually I think I know approximately what the recorded content is, so I don´t care that much about the cover.

I´m collecting LP cover designers & therefore I even occasionally buy cheap LPs I don´t plan to listen to - except from a short sample, to know if I´m missing something.

Now whether the cover somehow influences the listeners perception of the music - it probably can, at least until you get to know the music and recording better, maybe with something else to compare with. But a hypothetical, deeply heroic picture accompanying a highly conventional symphony by Sammartini might have an effect on the perception of the work initially. Likewise, a classical statue or painting illustrating Webern or Stockhausen might force us to think a bit differently concerning their musical work - _with_ tradition, or _against_ tradition, etc. etc.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Well if I was going out to buy a specific piece of music with no knowledge and one had a beautiful cover and the other had a picture of a crusty old man sitting at a piano I would say the cover art would influence me greatly.

In the very old days of my pop purchasing - when I could only afford one album a month - the cover art would be the thing to sway my decision one way or t'other.

In my knowledge, maturity and increased spending power it is more or less irrelevant.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm mostly repertoire driven so covers are usually only a fun bonus, but the Go 2 cover Norman is Showing above was a real eye catcher when it came out in 1978, but by then I was already an avid XTC fan!

/ptr


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> It does influence you. Sounds like it's purely subconscious in your case.


One of my favourite CDs, which I guarantee nobody bought for the cover art:









Of course, niche CDs were often sold mail order, and from what I remember Symposium's catalogue wasn't illustrated, so the visuals weren't important. They did start making more of an effort later on. This is a nice one:


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

They don't influence me regarding the music, but I _am_ of the opinion that I generally much prefer more modern covers. Older ones tend to look badly dated oftentimes. I think contemporary covers, often abstract, are more appealing to a potentially wider audience. (But that's just my take on it)...clearly...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

The cover art for some Crossroads LPs certainly lightened my mood, and that must have had a residual effect.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

To those claiming not to be influenced because "I like an album with a bad cover" or "I like the album for the music" - you mistake my point for being black and white. These influences are typically subtle and subconscious.

I find that various vibrant colors in album art are one of my primary subconscious influences.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes and no. If you have 10-20 recordings of a work, the cover becomes a less important factor in the perception.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> Yes and no. If you have 10-20 recordings of a work, the cover becomes a less important factor in the perception.


Naturally. Non-musical influences are at their peak with music relatively new to one's ears. They decline from there.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

There's no one-to-one correlation - which would be a cover I deem "good" equals something I might buy, and a cover I deem "bad" equals something I won't - but of course the cover has an influence. And, as arcaneholocaust says, that influence is subtle and subconscious.

The idea that a recording is some sort of pristine artifact that we only engage with on a musical level, in some sort of objective way, strikes me as rather delusional. On another thread recently one person gave their opinion of a piece of music and someone else, who disagreed with that opinion, said it was just "projection", to which I think well, duh, of course we project our ideas onto the things we listen to or look at.

Aside from covers, I find that in general if I think I _might_ like something (for whatever reason - predisposition to the performer's previous work, an idea for a recital that sounds interesting, and so on), that increases the chance that I _will_ like it.

So, yeah, you can and do judge a book by its cover.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

arcaneholocaust said:


> To those claiming not to be influenced because "I like an album with a bad cover" or "I like the album for the music" - you mistake my point for being black and white. These influences are typically subtle and subconscious.
> 
> I find that various vibrant colors in album art are one of my primary subconscious influences.


How do you know this, if it is subconscious?


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

gog said:


> How do you know this, if it is subconscious?


Anyone who is self-aware and reflects upon their own actions and/or thoughts can glean information about their own subconscious thought patterns after the fact. As someone who's been in a therapist's office 2-5 times a month for 8 years, I can attest to this 

I believe the layman's expression is "putting 2 and 2 together".


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Of course it influences me. The music may decide the purchase but assuming that I know nothing about the recording, the cover decides if I should listen to it at the store. If the label can't be bothered with packaging, how can I be certain that they haven't cut corners with the audio? I know the budget is tight but in what other industry would it be okay to appear unprofessional? 

Even the major labels churn out some dull covers which is strange when you're trying to sell to folks with creative minds. Spoiler alert: Music is art. What shall we use on the cover? a) photo of someone conducting b) generic painting with a possible but not necessarily reference to the work c) awkward portrait of soloist d) stock image.

You can't leave it up to the musicians. They were the school nerd - they don't know what's cool! Get an art director on board.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The only cover art that influences me negatively is if the cover is overtly sexual. I have grandkids constantly in the house, and there's too much potential for problems. 

Also, if the cover is overly seductive, like those ridiculous covers with a bare-chested lady covering her naughty bits with a violin, I'll pass on it. Having that kind of thing in my collection makes me look pathetic. 

If the album is too good to pass up despite the cover, I'll download it digitally.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> Also, if the cover is overly seductive, like those ridiculous covers with a bare-chested lady covering her naughty bits with a violin, I'll pass on it. Having that kind of thing in my collection makes me look pathetic.


Exactly! This is the only sort of classical album our local library stocks. Vanessa Mae looking sexy, and the like. Even if I was curious about the music (and for all I know it could be really good), I'm far too much of a snob to be seen checking out some kind of Classic FM fodder with a soft porn cover!


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Packaging affects all of us -- even when we don't realize that it does.

KenOC mentioned one study, and there's a great deal more research that backs the assertion that we are _definitely_ influenced by all sorts of factors over and above the product itself -- including packaging. Read psychologist's Robert Cialdini's _Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion_. All sorts of examples in there.

Besides, would you rather have this? 









Or this? 









The music is exactly the same.

But I'd MUCH rather have the second CD.

That purple cover manages to be both _nondescript_ and _ugly_ at the same time. That's quite an accomplishment.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

+JACE I absolutely agree with you. The psychology of marketing and persuasion is a huge industry.

As for the two covers you show as examples, I am positively disposed to both of them. The first is straight: the titles and relevant information in bold; the image doesn't distract; the colour is bold. They are selling the music on the merits of the music. The second is a prettier cover, with a cursive font, that still tells the same information as the other cover, but with more flourish. The art is pretty, too, of a scene known to just about anyone as being Russian. Still, it has a somewhat dated look (although this might be subjective), with the 'early internet' fake wood frame and the oversized label logo.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

JACE said:


> Besides, would you rather have this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's funny, but I feel the opposite. I like the minimalist cover; it has a modern feel. The other one looks old, like something my parents would have.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Oh well. So much for my design instincts! 

Good thing I'm not a graphic artist/designer!!!


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

It does for me, to some degree - can't say how much. Usually it is while I scan quickly through albums at the library - I stop at the ones that catch my eye. Lots of times, though, that mainly catches my attention because it brings to mind a particular label that I like. For example, if I see that "Living Stereo" I stop immediately and check it out. Similarly, the beautiful artwork that Hyperion puts on many of their albums. But I also have my share of plain-to-ugly album artwork. I appreciate the extra effort that some labels make to make the album look nice as well - Harmonia Mundi, Hyperion, AliaVox in particular. I even like the artwork on the Naxos albums. I really don't like the ones where it is just a close-up of the performer or conductor. I like it even less when it is a conductor/performer in some ridiculously irrelevant setting - think Karajan in front of a plane, or Tilson Thomas in a jungle setting.

But I'll buy it if I think the music is good. That wins out in the end. Mostly I listen on my iPod, and only rarely see the cover art. But it does matter, even with digital downloads. I still make sure all my albums in my iTunes library have the correct cover art.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Well, this is a side issue, but I don't have any objections to artists who try to look presentable on their album covers. If the Janine Jansen picture above is an example of someone "posing like a lingerie model" then tbh I'm not sure the problem is with Ms Jansen or her record label.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I don't think I have ever bought a classical CD based on cover alone, but I have checked out pop/rock bands because their covers intrigued me. A recent example is the Antlers:

View attachment 54368


a band that I had never heard of and explored after seeing this cover. Very much worthwhile music!


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

Cheyenne said:


> No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --


To each their own.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Well, that is hardly the worst picture I could think of (and no lingerie model pose!) -- but I still dislike that way of presenting the soloist.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Cheyenne said:


> No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --


Don't let youth and beauty get under your skin. _;D_

Its all about the music. . . 'right'?


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

I want to say no, but I realized that the only reason I picked up this Gliere album was because the photo captured my attention










Though "bad" album covers don't create a negative perception of the music


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## mirepoix (Feb 1, 2014)

I don't believe that classical music cover art can play a part in creating a huge positive or negative impression on me. Having said that, I'm sure that on some level it triggers some sort of response I'm unaware of.



Cheyenne said:


> No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --


I believe the type of covers you refer to are aimed at middle aged men. And as with most stuff nowadays, looks are increasingly considered important. So as always, the market matters.

(That's not a good photo - there's degradation over her ear due to overexposing/being too near the background, only one catchlight/onset of panda eyes, and it appears there's a huge boil or carbuncle on her wrist. Really, that's not a difficult type of shot to get right - it's beginner's stuff. If you're going to exploit the female image, do it in a competent manner.)


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Ah, worry not: I have no grudge against youth and beauty; but to figuratively place the achievements of an entire musical crew beneath the physical appearance of some soloist for abject marketing purposes has always bothered me. I merely would rather not see said pictures among my collection -- and now I do not.















Mind you, it happens with both genders.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Cheyenne said:


> Ah, worry not: I have no grudge against youth and beauty; but to figuratively place the achievements of an entire musical crew beneath the physical appearance of some soloist for abject marketing purposes has always bothered me. I merely would rather not see said pictures among my collection -- and now I do not.
> 
> Mind you, it happens with both genders.
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm just kidding, Sweetie. . .

You need to post your attachments again though-- they don't come up when they're clicked.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

If I purchased classical CDs in the same manner I purchase books, it's possible the cover could influence me very slightly. I purchase classical CDs by taking my long list of desired CDs to the store and searching for them. Since I've already decided on which CDs I wish, the cover doesn't have an effect.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

Cheyenne said:


> No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --


I'm guessing your thinking more of these images from Ms. Jansen (who is actually a quite good violinist, in addition to being easy on the eyes).


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## Blue Miasma (Oct 17, 2014)

For me when I buy music regardless of the genre I have to admit that cover art and packaging has a large impact on me even though I tell myself no I'm buying it solely for the music like for instance










I'm definitely more likely to buy that (which I did) compared to some standard plastic case with a pic of the conductor on the cover, the artwork has to relate to the music in some way so that when I listen to the music I can look at the cover and think about the image with the music as I believe that when both are done correctly it enhances the listening experience like seriously seeing some hot violinist on the cover ain't gonna help me think of the actual music, if I'm parting with my cash I want as much attention put into the artwork and packaging as the music itself which isn't always possible when the record labels want to do things cheaply


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> It's funny, but I feel the opposite. I like the minimalist cover; it has a modern feel. The other one looks old, like something my parents would have.


Lordy, yes. I find the first cover is so-so, but the second is utterley dire! - a perfect example of a tragically dated cover.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2014)

I detest these covers:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

The cover of a cd can definitely help persuade me to buy it, just as the list of contents can. I'm thinking about when Taggart & I browse in the record shop after we've bought our Norwich Baroque tickets for the year. We've often come away with a cd that looks really interesting. 

Then there's that horrid moment when you play it in the car while going home, and realise how irritating it is. One example that springs to mind is a cd of Purcell drinking songs that we fell for. And the songs themselves might have been fine. It's just the horribly arch way in which the posh men sang the bawdy lyrics - as if they were 'slumming' at a maypole dance. Straight into the charity shop bin it went.

So yes, attractive covers can influence me - but not for long. Try the comely orange, but if it's rotten inside, the colourful peel won't save it.


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## stevens (Jun 23, 2014)

The cover art has nothing to do with the music *BUT* I cant stand some ugly covers or all those "best of" editions even if the music is ok


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Some artwork can be unpleasant/low budget/arty-farty/sexed-up but the saving grace is that it spends most of its time on the shelf, hidden from view.

I would say that the nearest I've ever got to being allured into purchase by cover art was Gergiev's series of Kirov recordings on the Philips label -in addition to what was usually an action shot on the front there was a classy use of pale blue as an accent colour, both with the Kirov logo and on the rest of the sleeve, especially the spine. I did end up with about half a dozen of them, but I like to tell myself that I would have bought them anyway!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413A45XKD7L.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GRF36YM9L.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VIl1XdaxL._SX425_.jpg

And here's the exception to the theme, no doubt due to the title of the work!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M2DFE4Z2L.jpg


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> One example that springs to mind is a cd of Purcell drinking songs that we fell for. And the songs themselves might have been fine. It's just the horribly arch way in which the posh men sang the bawdy lyrics - as if they were 'slumming' at a maypole dance. Straight into the charity shop bin it went.


Oxford choral scholars for sure. The ones I was at university with, I used to play John McCormack CDs to. They would smile politely, then go away and sing just as you describe, as if John had taught them nothing of the value of the words and of not condescending when singing music of a more vernacular kind. I did enjoy May morning though: at the top of Magdalen tower in the 6am mist, nobody can hear you being arch!

Edited to ask: was 'Try the comely orange' one of the Purcell songs in question? Maybe from one of his Christmas albums?


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Yeah, it absolutely does when I'm not sure of the quality of the music beforehand, if I'm going in "blind". If I'm browsing used classical CDs, I am more enticed by the nicer covers. It probably ain't logical, but it's just the way it is.

If I had to choose between these two, I'm obviously choosing one over the other. One of them is an eyesore.















By the way, I'm a big fan of some of the Mahler-Boulez individual CD cover art (DG).


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DiesIraeVIX said:


> By the way, I'm a big fan of some of the Mahler-Boulez individual CD cover art (DG).


I am as well. I love the ones you posted, but also his Das Lied (which has disappointing singing on it, though Boulez does a fine job):


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

No, but I refuse to buy a disc with one of those banal covers featuring a supposedly attractive soloist posing like a lingerie model. I don't own a single disc like that, and would like to keep it that way. We all know the artists who are most used for said covers: --



Believe it or not, sex sells. It always has and always will. Even the guys take advantage of this:










Indeed, one might point out that a great deal of music... of all art... deals with sexuality/sensuality/eroticism.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality - what does that have to do with the music? In addition, it's such a double standard, because you won't see James Ehnes sprawled out on a chaise lounge. 

I try not to be influenced by the cover, though I'm sure it does. But I will say, overt sexuality on the cover puts me off, I probably won't buy the CD on principle. 

I do like to see art on the cover, particularly art from the same time and place as the composer. Klimt and Mahler goes together well. Debussy and Monet goes together well. Etc.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Corporations spend billions a year on advertising and visual promotions. We can probably surmise that they wouldn't be doing this if the results were not worth the investment. CD covers may have little or nothing to do with the quality of the recorded performance... but it certainly has the potential to attract my attention and lead me to giving consideration to a disc I might not otherwise have considered. It may also have the opposite effect. As another member suggested, it is possible that I may see a crappy or cheap-looking cover and find myself wondering whether the only corners being cut were on the visuals. I will admit to having long avoided these marvelous George Szell recordings due to the incredibly cheap-looking covers:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Sexual content in covers can take suprising forms.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality - what does that have to do with the music?

It may have nothing to do with the music... but it has much to do with marketing the performer.

In addition, it's such a double standard, because you won't see James Ehnes sprawled out on a chaise lounge.

Really? So they don't use sexuality to market male performers?










This one just happened to be sitting near me right now. A true Hollywood "bad-boy" look going on there.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

At the risk of being called a CM snob, I find covers like this particularly revolting:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41241WAJQ6L.jpg


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality - what does that have to do with the music?
> 
> It may have nothing to do with the music... but it has much to do with marketing the performer.
> 
> ...


Why are people so afraid of beauty and sensuality?-- is what I wonder.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Well... America still has a strong strain of Puritanism.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Well... America still has a strong strain of Puritanism.


<Ping!>

. . . and envy.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Why are people so afraid of beauty and sensuality?-- is what I wonder.


Beauty and sensuality are very nice. I've no problem with the covers featuring handsome gentlemen- or pretty ladies! It's the pornier covers that people don't like, because they are embarrassing. Imagine queuing up in a library or record store with a CD with a semi naked lady on it- or people finding said CD in your collection and imagining it's there because you are too inhibited to look at actual pornography (which I am told is available on the internet) rather than because you wanted to listen to some Vivaldi or something!


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Well... America still has a strong strain of Puritanism.


When it comes to the display of men yes. It is of course fine if it is a woman on the cover.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Why are people so afraid of beauty and sensuality?-- is what I wonder.


... and why so keen, too, to equate beauty and sensuality with sex?

Sometimes an attractive young woman lounging in a chair is _just_ an attractive young woman lounging in a chair.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Nereffid said:


> ... and why so keen, too, to equate beauty and sensuality with sex?
> 
> Sometimes an attractive young woman lounging in a chair is _just_ an attractive young woman lounging in a chair.


What if it was an attractive man? Would you still find it appealing?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> What if it was an attractive man? Would you still find it appealing?


Hmm, am I a misogynist or a bisexual, is that what you're asking? 

An attractive man lounging in a chair... yeah, why would that not be appealing? Actually I had misgivings about using the word "attractive" because that can easily be taken to mean "sexually attractive"; "beautiful" or simply "good-looking" would have sufficed.
The assumption I'm questioning is the one that thinks that just because a person deliebrately looks "good" (for whatever value of "good") they are trying to arouse whoever's looking at them. Why can't they look good in their own right?


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Piwikiwi said:


> What if it was an attractive man? Would you still find it appealing?


Sure. Attractive is attractive is attractive.

Human beings are attracted to other human beings. In every sense of the word.

There are many, many dimensions to the idea of "attractiveness." One of those dimensions is sexual attraction. But it's only _one_ dimension.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I am very much attracted to beautiful album covers, and likewise repulsed by ugly ones. I'm a highly visual person and I used to listen to non-classical music for decades before I got into classical music, and there, usually, when the recording is at least as much a part of the work of art as the composition, people usually pay more attention to the design on the cover, making it a part of the total work of art. Of course it has commercial implications, precisely as much as the music itself.

In classical music, when it's the composition that's the real work of art, and the performance and the recording are separate from it, well, it's only natural that the cover is also separate. I dislike almost all classical music covers that I've ever seen, because even with the best ones that show a beautiful painting or somesuch, there's a separateness involved. That's just natural because of what CM is. So, a CM record cover can never truly impress me, unless living composers start to get involved in the record making and cover design. Thus, what CM covers should in my view aspire to is not being ugly (ugly defined as inappropriate / annoying in context).


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality


Well I do! So if anyone has any Cd's that feature attractive young performers in repose with their instruments (Or not) please feel free to post them to me! ( Address supplied on request).:tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

senza sordino said:


> I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality...


I consider this "added value" in a CD. Wanna see my collection of Yuja Wang pics?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio View Post
"I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality"

Ummm... that most certainly is not my post.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio View Post
> "I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality"
> 
> Ummm... that most certainly is not my post.


That was Senza Sordino's post. Right?

By the way, I've wondered for a while. Why don't you like utilizing the "Reply with Quote" function?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio View Post
> "I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality"
> 
> Ummm... that most certainly is not my post.


Yes, and you forgot to change the color of the text in post #56 so it looks like cheyenne's post is actually yours, which comes across as very confusing!


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## Karafan (Aug 18, 2013)

Definitely, it affects me. When uploading CD tracks to my iPod for instance I seek out online the old album artwork, where that differs from the CD cover, and replace it with that. Here's an example:








Erich Kleiber in Beethoven 5 and made of milk chocolate to boot! What's not to love?


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio View Post
> "I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality"
> 
> Ummm... that most certainly is not my post.


That was my post, and I stick by it.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

I bought this highlight album just for the cover. Music is pretty good too!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio View Post
> "I do not like seeing female performers posing and strutting their sexuality"
> 
> Ummm... that most certainly is not my post.


Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

- No, it most certainly _wasn't_. . . thank _God_. _;D _


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Pardon me....my bad! Apologies to StlukesguildOhio, Dodgy 'reply with post' edit...Been a loooong day!

I still want all the Sexy Cd's though!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Badinerie said:


> Pardon me....my bad! Apologies to StlukesguildOhio, Dodgy 'reply with post' edit...Been a loooong day!
> 
> I still want all the Sexy Cd's though!


"Less than All cannot satisfy Man."

- William Blake


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Marschallin Blair said:


> "Less than All cannot satisfy Man."
> 
> - William Blake


I find that even All leaves me vaguely unsatisfied half an hour later.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

KenOC said:


> I find that even All leaves me vaguely unsatisfied half an hour later.


Then you need to reach for that target others couldn't even_ see_, let alone _reach_--- like Berlioz did with _Benvenuto Cellini._

(Which is what I'm listening to right now.)
_
;D_


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

_All art is erotic._ -Gustav Klimt

_Sex and art are the same thing._ - Pablo Picasso

_I am still of opinion that only two topics can be of the least interest to a serious and studious mood - sex and death._ -W.B. Yeats

_The artist's experience lies so unbelievably close to the sexual, to its pain and its pleasure, that the two phenomena are really just different forms of one and the same longing and bliss._ 
-Rainer Maria Rilke

_Art can never exist without Naked Beauty display'd._ - William Blake

_The great artists of the world are never Puritans, and seldom even ordinarily respectable._ 
-H. L. Mencken

_Why should I be ashamed to describe what nature was not ashamed to create? _
-Pietro Aretino

And one of my favorites:

_Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea._ -John Ciardi

:lol::devil:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I find that even All leaves me vaguely unsatisfied half an hour later.

Ummm... I don't think that the Marschallin was discussing Chinese take-out.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I find that even All leaves me vaguely unsatisfied half an hour later.
> 
> Ummm... I don't think that the Marschallin was discussing Chinese take-out.


KenOC needs to go to a _real_ Roman Festival-- and then see if he can even stand up let alone talk.

_;D_


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> _All art is erotic._ -Gustav Klimt
> 
> _Sex and art are the same thing._ - Pablo Picasso
> 
> ...


My vote's for the Mencken.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't intend to be influenced by the cover art, but I'm sure that I am. Sometimes I'm even consciously aware of it, as with the bad Philips covers, and the Sony newspaper covers, and many Naxos covers. Trying to ameliorate at least a little the inevitable dishonesty of my tyrannical subconscious mind, I search out the best cover art I can find for use in my iTunes library, hoping to give every recording I have the best possible chance.

One thing I'm sure Hyperion has gotten right is its cover design. I think its covers are the most consistently great of the major classical music labels. A mediocre cover by Hyperion's standards -

View attachment 54502


- would be a great cover by Philips' standards. Deutsche Grammophon should thank all the blessed spirits that the Philips catalog wasn't married to the Hyperion cover art.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Nereffid said:


> Hmm, am I a misogynist or a bisexual, is that what you're asking?
> 
> An attractive man lounging in a chair... yeah, why would that not be appealing? Actually I had misgivings about using the word "attractive" because that can easily be taken to mean "sexually attractive"; "beautiful" or simply "good-looking" would have sufficed.
> The assumption I'm questioning is the one that thinks that just because a person deliebrately looks "good" (for whatever value of "good") they are trying to arouse whoever's looking at them. Why can't they look good in their own right?


I my apologize. I spend the last couple of days arguing with those misogynist #gamergate idiots on twitter and that has made me a bit oversensitive.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I remember once when working in a classical record shop, a customer came in asking for a recommendation for Strauss's _Vier letzte Lieder_. Of the recordings we had in at the time, I recommended Schwarzkopf/Szell, a colleague Norman/Masur and yet another both, which wasn't exactly helpful. He went for Schwarzkopf, because he preferred the cover.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> I my apologize. I spend the last couple of days arguing with those misogynist #gamergate idiots on twitter and that has made me a bit oversensitive.


:tiphat:
Keep fighting the good fight!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

OK, fans of soft porn covers, tell me whether this is sexy or just embarrassing! (Nobody's denying that Vanessa is a very attractive lady.)









It could be worse- at least she's wearing big knickers (I think I have some like that) and not a G string! It is totally disingenuous to to compare pictures like that, which took roughly three seconds to find on Amazon, with the sultry yet remarkably modest covers featuring gentlemen like Jonas Kaufmann. Heck, on the Winterreise cover, he's practically wearing a burkha!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I remember once when working in a classical record shop, a customer came in asking for a recommendation for Strauss's _Vier letzte Lieder_. Of the recordings we had in at the time, I recommended Schwarzkopf/Szell, a colleague Norman/Masur and yet another both, which wasn't exactly helpful. He went for Schwarzkopf, because he preferred the cover.
> 
> View attachment 54527
> View attachment 54528


That reminds me of the story where this guy was in the front row of a _Rosenkavalier_ performance with Schwarzkopf as the Marschallin, and upon seeing her in real life for the first time, leans over to his friend and says, "And she_ sings _too?"

Goddess.

Jessye's singing's absolutely ravishing too by the way; if lacking the psychological penetration of the text and accompanying subtle voice inflections of the Schwarzkopf.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> OK, fans of soft porn covers, tell me whether this is sexy or just embarrassing! (Nobody's denying that Vanessa is a very attractive lady.)
> 
> View attachment 54532
> 
> ...


Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

-- My_ father _actually has that cd.

My sister and I used to tease him about it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I have no problem whatsoever if an album cover takes advantage of the artist's looks, provided that it is done classy (and sexy can be done very classy). The Vanessa Mae cover posted here is awful though. It takes a special kind of talent to come up with a cover like this if the artist you are doing it for is a beauty like her. The corny pose is already totally off, the tiny "costume" is ridiculous, and the paper cut-out mock angel wings are hideous. It looks like a photoshop job gone wrong.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> OK, fans of soft porn covers, tell me whether this is sexy or just embarrassing! (Nobody's denying that Vanessa is a very attractive lady.)
> 
> It could be worse- at least she's wearing big knickers (I think I have some like that) and not a G string! It is totally disingenuous to to compare pictures like that, which took roughly three seconds to find on Amazon, with the sultry yet remarkably modest covers featuring gentlemen like Jonas Kaufmann. Heck, on the Winterreise cover, he's practically wearing a burkha!


Well, I was taking issue with the claim that Janine Jansen was posing like a lingerie model. You also can't compare Ms Jansen's pictures to Vanessa Mae either.
Unless you or someone else is actually saying that "attractive woman" pretty much equates to "soft porn"?


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Figleaf said:


> OK, fans of soft porn covers, tell me whether this is sexy or just embarrassing! (Nobody's denying that Vanessa is a very attractive lady.)
> 
> View attachment 54532
> 
> ...


Now that is dreadfull! I feel a bit queazy now...cheers for that


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

I appreciate the discussion in this thread a lot. I am afraid there may be a hidden strain of puritanism in me, and it would probably be wise to attempt to eliminate it!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I think this is as gratuitous as it gets...

http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/630x630/music/943/8959943.jpg


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> I think this is as gratuitous as it gets...
> 
> http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/630x630/music/943/8959943.jpg


This one is much better than the vanessa mae one


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> Well, I was taking issue with the claim that Janine Jansen was posing like a lingerie model. You also can't compare Ms Jansen's pictures to Vanessa Mae either.
> Unless you or someone else is actually saying that "attractive woman" pretty much equates to "soft porn"?


That wasn't me- I never heard of Janine Jansen until she was mentioned on this thread. I think her album covers shown here would be hard to take exception to.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> I think this is as gratuitous as it gets...
> 
> http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/630x630/music/943/8959943.jpg


Definitely in the 'So bad it's good!' category! :lol:


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

DG can indeed make ugly covers.

The gap between the quality of the music and that of the cover is ludicrous sometimes.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Stavrogin said:


> DG can indeed make ugly covers.
> 
> The gap between the quality of the music and that of the cover is ludicrous sometimes.


Someone at DG seems to have had such reservations about the quality of the performance that they decided to throw all the instruments into the crater of a volcano!


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## rspader (May 14, 2014)

For me, CD covers work much like labels on wine bottles. If I'm not familiar with what is inside, an impressive label will seal the deal. I've been burned by this time and again but I always end up with more music and more wine. Life goes on.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> OK, fans of soft porn covers, tell me whether this is sexy or just embarrassing! (Nobody's denying that Vanessa is a very attractive lady.)
> 
> View attachment 54532
> 
> ...


I think the purpose of "soft porn covers" like that one was to convey the idea that classical music is not all about a bunch of old dudes dressed in tuxedos. With this one they have really overdone it.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Beauty and sensuality are very nice. I've no problem with the covers featuring handsome gentlemen- or pretty ladies! It's the pornier covers that people don't like, because they are embarrassing. Imagine queuing up in a library or record store with a CD with a semi naked lady on it- or people finding said CD in your collection and imagining it's there because you are too inhibited to look at actual pornography (which I am told is available on the internet) rather than because you wanted to listen to some Vivaldi or something!


Dress changes the manners, certainly.

And a scanted mini-skirt will raise the hormones.

But when one claims that 'most people' don't like the racier and more sensual covers, that flies in the face of marketing facts. Most people in fact _do _love those types of covers, and I can positively assure you as a former classical music buyer for Tower Records (when I was in my teens and early twenties) that a new Anne Sophie Mutter release would always outsell a new Gil Shaham or Itzak Pearlman release by a considerable margin.

But marketing aside, I come from an entirely different premise, myself. Beauty, like intelligence, is its own excuse for being; and it doesn't have to seek anyone's sanction to exist.

People that don't like those types of covers are free to buy cd's that don't have them. The great thing about freedom is that you can vote with your dollars. Last time I checked, Amazon.com carried Schoenberg as well as Britney Spears.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> People that don't like those types of covers are free to buy cd's that don't have them. The great thing about freedom is that you can vote with your dollars. Last time I checked, Amazon.com carried Schoenberg as well as Britney Spears.


And who's sexier now?


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