# Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'll be seeing a performance of these on April 6th. I'm looking forward to it!

I'm listening to it now...






This is the complete program:

ENRICO CHAPELA: Radioaxial (World Premiere, CSO Commission)
BARBER: Piano Concerto
RACHMANINOFF: Symphonic Dances


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I have always loved the old Soviet recording by Kiril Kondrashin, because it sounded like it was recorded in an old armory -- which acoustic suited the piece amazingly well.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Love the Symphonic Dances! If only old Sergei could have had another ten years--the Dances were like a rebirth of his creativity. Don't forget the two-piano transcription--great, thunderous clangor. Imagine R and Vladimir Horowitz at the two grands in Rachmaninoff's California home, pounding out the Dances after dinner :lol:.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Absolutely adore the Symphonic Dances. One of the very few times that I can actually enjoy the saxophone! I'm hoping that this work will turn up in the 'Saturday Symphonies' series at some point in the near future so that we can compare recordings and cite the merits (or otherwise) of them. Meanwhile, a question: let the tamtam ring on at the end, or not?
Enjoy the concert; it looks like an intersting program.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'll be seeing a performance of these on April 6th. I'm looking forward to it!
> 
> I'm listening to it now...
> 
> ...


Great programme, going to be a good night.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Great music, wish it were programmed more often. I've played it several times - it's not easy, but sure fun!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Alas, if only they would produce a complete Rachmaninoff set.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

The Barber Concerto is going to be insane to hear live! A wicked composition.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> The Barber Concerto is going to be insane to hear live! A wicked composition.


Yes! What a treat to have that as contrast/complement(?) to the Rachmaninoff. I hope the premiere is good.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Yes! What a treat to have that as contrast/complement(?) to the Rachmaninoff. I hope the premiere is good.


The Rach has strong moments, but the Barber is just jarring and on it's feet the whole time! So I'd say its more of a contrast.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Great program. Rachmaninoff's late works show a transformed, wonderfully subtle harmonist and a brilliant orchestral master who still couldn't be anyone but the composer of the second concerto and the second symphony. The fact that this work and the Barber were written in the middle of the 20th century and succeed, in their different ways, in being at once gorgeously romantic, bracingly modern, and enduringly captivating, is a perfect rebuke to any then-current dogma about what sort of music contemporary composers "ought" to be writing.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Another big fan of the Symphonic Dances. For me they are Rachmaninov's best piece. I haven't seen them played live, so a hint of jealousy infuses this post...


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2018)

I love both the piano version as well as the lushly orchestrated one - the last 'composition' (arrangement actually) from Rachmaninov, by the way.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I like Symphonic Dances, although I'm not really transported by the music. There's not much going on that's particularly interesting or captivating in terms of emotion, mystery and atmosphere. It's "just" very enjoyable music. And sometimes that's enough. 
Personally, I wish he had composed more orchestral music in the vein of Isle of the Dead, which does have those qualities to me.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

His supreme achievement.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2018)

manyene said:


> His supreme achievement.


A lot of critics agree with you. And I was reading up about the pianist with Argerich on the recording I posed; Nicolas Economou and it's a somewhat sad story. Died in a car accident but people are unsure whether it was suicide or not.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

DeepR said:


> I like Symphonic Dances, although I'm not really transported by the music. There's not much going on that's particularly interesting or captivating in terms of emotion, mystery and atmosphere. It's "just" very enjoyable music. And sometimes that's enough.
> Personally, I wish he had composed more orchestral music in the vein of Isle of the Dead, which does have those qualities to me.


I'm with you on this. Strangely enough, given that you mentioned the work, there is a quotation from Isle of the Dead in the Symphonic Dances, as well as one from his First Symphony, suggesting an autobiographical dimension. Most peculiar is that Rachmaninoff had destroyed all extant copies of the First Symphony's score and it had not yet been reconstructed (from a set of parts) when the Symphonic Dances were premiered, so the quotation, Rachmaninoff must have believed, would be recognized by no one. That's Rachmaninoff all over: the man could keep a secret and he was content with encoding a message only he would understand.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Christabel said:


> I love both the piano version as well as the lushly orchestrated one - the last 'composition' (arrangement actually) from Rachmaninov, by the way.


I have a feeling I am getting the piano version...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Aren't the Symphonic Dances more or less a symphony? If so, then Rachmaninov has four symphonies, but what number would the Symphonic Dances be?



And while I am at it, what is Rachmaninov vs. Rachmaninoff? Are they the same person or what?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Rachmaninoff preferred that the English spelling of his name be Rachmaninoff, not Rachmaninov.


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## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

Apparently, jazz was an influence on this piece. Rachmaninoff had a great private enjoyment of jazz, often listening to it with his friends at his New York home. That may be surprising to some people, as Rachmaninoff was a famously aloof and aristocratic sort, and was never really at home while in exile. I guess jazz was one aspect of American culture he appreciated to some extent.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Strange Magic said:


> Rachmaninoff preferred that the English spelling of his name be Rachmaninoff, not Rachmaninov.


I wonder if that was so that English-speaking people would pronounce it properly.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Aren't the Symphonic Dances more or less a symphony? If so, then Rachmaninov has four symphonies, but what number would the Symphonic Dances be?
> 
> And while I am at it, what is Rachmaninov vs. Rachmaninoff? Are they the same person or what?


No, that would make five. "The Bells" is a symphony. But I think there are just four. Symphonic Dances is really more of a dance suite.



Fritz Kobus said:


> I wonder if that was so that English-speaking people would pronounce it properly.


It might be from his time in Germany, where he established a name for himself as an opera conductor in Dresden (1905-7?). I'm not sure, but might that have been the first time he needed a transliteration to advertise personal appearances in the West? No, I think he might have gone on the road with his second concerto a year or two earlier. Of course he likely performed that in Germany too. Anyway, if he started with a Germanic transliteration he might have decided to just go with it in other countries. And remember, he spent lots of time in Switzerland, where he kept a home.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Its my favorite Rachmaninov work along with the 3rd Symphony. The late works were more influenced by modern harmony and really 'speak my language'.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Aren't the Symphonic Dances more or less a symphony? If so, then Rachmaninov has four symphonies, but what number would the Symphonic Dances be?
> 
> Arguably, The Bells is another symphony -a choral one this time. It has the requisite movements to qualify plus evident thematic links with the Symphonic Dances.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes, *The Bells* is labeled as a "choral" symphony. As for the *Dances*, no it's not a symphony. If it was, it'd be titled Dance Symphony. By him calling it Symphonic Dances he's merely saying it's a set of dances for orchestra.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DeepR said:


> I like Symphonic Dances, although I'm not really transported by the music. There's not much going on that's particularly interesting or captivating in terms of emotion, mystery and atmosphere. It's "just" very enjoyable music. And sometimes that's enough.
> Personally, I wish he had composed more orchestral music in the vein of Isle of the Dead, which does have those qualities to me.


While I love _Isle of the Dead_, I feel it's a one-off, mining its vein as deeply as it can go and allowing no successor (rather like Sibelius's _Tapiola,_ my other candidate for the most powerful tone poem ever written).

I get a lot of emotion and atmosphere from _Symphonic Dances_, and locate it primarily in the subtle chromatic harmony; with it R creates a play of evanescent moods fascinating in the context of dance rhythms. When I was younger I responded more readily to the wholehearted emotionality of R's earlier works, but I've since come to find an indescribable poignancy in this piece. The strange chromatic waltz of its second movement haunts me - the last dance before death calls - and the quote from the first symphony at the end of the first movement, transformed from a bold fanfare to a song of love for something or someone long past, breaks my heart.

I recommend this performance by Kirill Kondrashin above any other:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> While I love _Isle of the Dead_, I feel it's a one-off, mining its vein as deeply as it can go and allowing no successor (rather like Sibelius's _Tapiola,_ my other candidate for the most powerful tone poem ever written).
> 
> I get a lot of emotion and atmosphere from _Symphonic Dances_, and locate it primarily in the subtle chromatic harmony; with it R creates a play of evanescent moods fascinating in the context of dance rhythms. When I was younger I responded more readily to the wholehearted emotionality of R's earlier works, but I've since come to find an indescribable poignancy in this piece. The strange chromatic waltz of its second movement haunts me - the last dance before death calls - and the quote from the first symphony at the end of the first movement, transformed from a bold fanfare to a song of love for something or someone long past, breaks my heart.
> 
> I recommend this performance by Kirill Kondrashin above any other:


This version is great! I am kind of hoping to get the orchestral version of the dances, I think I prefer them to the piano version. They are only advertising one pianist for the show, so, my guess is I may get my wish!


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> While I love _Isle of the Dead_, I feel it's a one-off, mining its vein as deeply as it can go and allowing no successor (rather like Sibelius's _Tapiola,_ my other candidate for the most powerful tone poem ever written).
> 
> I get a lot of emotion and atmosphere from _Symphonic Dances_, and locate it primarily in the subtle chromatic harmony; with it R creates a play of evanescent moods fascinating in the context of dance rhythms. When I was younger I responded more readily to the wholehearted emotionality of R's earlier works, but I've since come to find an indescribable poignancy in this piece. The strange chromatic waltz of its second movement haunts me - the last dance before death calls - and the quote from the first symphony at the end of the first movement, transformed from a bold fanfare to a song of love for something or someone long past, breaks my heart.
> 
> I recommend this performance by Kirill Kondrashin above any other:


You've summed up my own reactions to this work very well


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Alas, if only they would produce a complete Rachmaninoff set.


What was I thinking. They do have it. Two different sets. Have to think the DECCA is better than the Brilliant set.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Just got back from the show, it was a lovely time!


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