# Who was the first Classical composer?



## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

No, really; does Gregorian Chant count as Classical music? Did Medieval composers even exist? And did the Renaissance give a bloom in music from Medieval music as well (aside of ballet which was originally from Italy at that time)?


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

In "The Complete Classical Music Guide", the first composer to appear is Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179). It seems that she was the first great composer whose name survived until our days.






Léonin (fl. 1150s-1201) and Pérotin (ca. 1155-ca. 1200) were the first non-anonymous composers to make use of polyphony, and are among the earliest notable names of classical music aswell.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

There was a fierce argument raging between Sumerian and early Egyptian composers as to who was really the first classical composer. Unfortunately we have yet to fully decipher their cuneiform and hieroglyphic scripts in order to find out who won.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I measure its history from Hildegard von Bingen because she is still being performed and listened to by those who love classical music. Church music has been an important part of its history.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I wonder how accurate our performances of Hildegard's music are. If she were to hear them, would she even recognize them? Does anybody have thoughts on this?


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2019)

Gregorian Chant dates back to the 9th & 10th centuries, but I don't believe any of it can be ascribed to any individual named composer. It's monophonic in style, i.e. uses a single melodic line.

Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179) is the first big name composer in classical music. She was German and the Abbess of a Benedictine Convent in Germany. Another composer of roughly the same time was Leonin (1130-1201), and slightly later there was Perotin (1170-1220), but their output and general popularity is less.

Hildegard's two main works are normally set out as collections:

1. _Ordo Virtutum_ ("Play of the Virtues") - This covers the songs and instrumental pieces connected with a Morality Play of the same name that that she wrote.

2. _Symphonia armonie celestium revelationum_ - This includes a large body of religious songs of various types dedicated to various entities, e.g. I. Songs to God the Father and God the Son; V. Songs for Patron Saints. There are 8 sections in total.

I have all of this. My collection is by various artists: Sequentia, Oxford Camerata, Gothic Voices.

Like Gregorian chant, all of Hildegard's works are monophonic, but several of her songs are rather more "upbeat". I enjoy religious music and don't have any problems with the "sameyness" of much of her work She was also very talented in other areas, and was canonised i.e. recognised by the Church as a "Saint".


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

An interesting aside but we've only discussed religious music here but it's no doubt worth considering the first large collection of secular songs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana
Is this 'classical' music?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

M


KenOC said:


> I wonder how accurate our performances of Hildegard's music are. If she were to hear them, would she even recognize them? Does anybody have thoughts on this?


On 10 May 2012, Pope Benedict XVI... called her "perennially relevant" and "an authentic teacher of theology and a profound scholar of natural science and music." While not everything she wrote and composed may have been preserved, I believe that most of her documents and music have been accurately preserved because of their importance to the history of the church. By every account that I've read, there is every indication that she was a remarkable, spiritually devoted and brilliant woman whose works have been considered well worth preserving. Mentioned by Partita, "in addition to the Ordo Virtutum, sixty-nine musical compositions, each with its own original poetic text, survive, and at least four other texts are known, though their musical notation has been lost. This is one of the largest repertoires among medieval composers."


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

KenOC said:


> I wonder how accurate our performances of Hildegard's music are. If she were to hear them, would she even recognize them? Does anybody have thoughts on this?


In his excellent _Medieval and Renaissance Music: A Performer's Guide_ Timothy McGee, who has worked for decades on early music and performance practice issues as both a scholar and an active musical director, writes: "That there is no single 'right way' to perform a composition of any era is one of the beauties of the art. At any one point in history one can find substantial variations in the interpretation of the repertory, and this is as true of the early centuries as of any other era. We can assume that in the early centuries there was as much variety in the voices and styles of delivery as there is today, but we shall probably never know for certain what was considered to be a standard of beautiful vocal sound - or even whether there was a standard."


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Hildegarde von Bingen. In addition to being the first (VERY) important composer, she was also perhaps the last important female composer for centuries. If there are any I’m missing please let me know. I think the shortage of female composers in the history of classical music is a travesty, but if nothing else we must all be eternally grateful to Hildegarde and her haunting, mystical music.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

^^^^ from the top of my head:

Clara Schumann and Louise Farrenc.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Hildegarde von Bingen. In addition to being the first (VERY) important composer, she was also perhaps the last important female composer for centuries. If there are any I'm missing please let me know. I think the shortage of female composers in the history of classical music is a travesty, but if nothing else we must all be eternally grateful to Hildegarde and her haunting, mystical music.


The baroque period has a relatively large and important number of female composers. At the very least you should listen to Barbara Strozzi and Elizabeth Jacquet de la Guerre.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_date


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I wonder how accurate our performances of Hildegard's music are. If she were to hear them, would she even recognize them? Does anybody have thoughts on this?


The notation she used conveyed pitch unequivocally (in the relative sense) but was indefinite as to rhythm, meter, and tempo. The melodic writing was distinctive enough that she would, IMO, be likely to recognize her work no matter how we butchered it.


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## ECraigR (Jun 25, 2019)

classical yorkist said:


> An interesting aside but we've only discussed religious music here but it's no doubt worth considering the first large collection of secular songs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana
> Is this 'classical' music?


My understanding is that these texts don't contain any music, just words. Whether or not you want to call songs without music classical music is a different topic, but I've thought of them as just poetry.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

There are several ways the word "classical music" is used. One is that it refers to all "through-composed" music. Another is that it refers to all music before the 20th century. In that case, people refer to music written in the 20th century as "_20th Century_ Classical Music". The subtext is that _classical music_, as a living, breathing art at the forefront of musical development, more or less ended at the end of the 19th century, and that through-composed music these days is a niche form that is "like" classical music but all but irrelevant. Another is that "classical music" refers to a specific period of time between rococo/pre-classical period and the proto-Remantic and Romantic Period. I've always enjoyed music history so when someone says "Classical Music", I always think of music during the late 18th century. Otherwise, to me, it's like calling everything between 1950 and now, "Rock Music".

So, when I saw your question, my first thought was "Joseph Haydn".


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

ECraigR said:


> My understanding is that these texts don't contain any music, just words. Whether or not you want to call songs without music classical music is a different topic, but I've thought of them as just poetry.


some of them had musical notations and have been made into music for example by Clemencic Consort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmina_Burana#Musical_settings


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

ECraigR said:


> My understanding is that these texts don't contain any music, just words. Whether or not you want to call songs without music classical music is a different topic, but I've thought of them as just poetry.


Roughly one quarter of the poems are accompanied by a basic musical notation


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> Hildegarde von Bingen. In addition to being the first (VERY) important composer, she was also perhaps the last important female composer for centuries. *If there are any I'm missing please let me know*. I think the shortage of female composers in the history of classical music is a travesty, but if nothing else we must all be eternally grateful to Hildegarde and her haunting, mystical music.


Well, since you asked ...

About 2 years ago the BBC's Radio 3 programme devoted its week long "composer of the week" to the music of the Court of *Ferrara *in Italy during the 16th C. Ferrara was a major cultural centre at the time, and attracted artists including composers from far and wide across Europe.

The works of several composers associated with this school were featured: Agostini, Aleottii, Cipriano de Rore, *Eleonara D'Este*, Giaches de Wert, Luzzaschi, Marenzio.

*Eleonara D'Este* (1515-1575) was a Ferrarese noblewoman (of high rank), who became a nun, and was connected with this school as a composer. She may have been the composer of some 40+ motets under the title _Musica quinque vocum motetta materna lingua vocata_, that were published in Venice in 1543.

There is no proof that Eleonora was the composer, but her name has been suggested as being the likely source. She was virtually disqualified from being named at the time, since she was a woman, a nun and a princess.

I recorded the music from that "composer of the week" schedule and have it listed in my collection under "Ferrara". For Eleonora I have 7 of the 40+ motets referred to above.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

vtpoet said:


> There are several ways the word "classical music" is used. One is that it refers to all "through-composed" music. Another is that it refers to all music before the 20th century. In that case, people refer to music written in the 20th century as "_20th Century_ Classical Music". *The subtext is that classical music, as a living, breathing art at the forefront of musical development, more or less ended at the end of the 19th century*, and that through-composed music these days is a niche form that is "like" classical music but all but irrelevant. Another is that "classical music" refers to a specific period of time between rococo/pre-classical period and the proto-Remantic and Romantic Period. I've always enjoyed music history so when someone says "Classical Music", I always think of music during the late 18th century. Otherwise, to me, it's like calling everything between 1950 and now, "Rock Music".
> 
> So, when I saw your question, my first thought was "Joseph Haydn".


Nonsense. No one in their right mind believes this. The 20thc produced some of the most popular music in the standard repertoire and classical music was a living breathing tradition throughout. Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, Bartok, Ravel Sibelius, Vaughan-Williams, Debussy and many others were part of this tradition. Some lived into the 1970s.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2019)

vtpoet said:


> There are several ways the word "classical music" is used. One is that it refers to all "through-composed" music. Another is that it refers to all music before the 20th century. In that case, people refer to music written in the 20th century as "_20th Century_ Classical Music". The subtext is that _classical music_, as a living, breathing art at the forefront of musical development, more or less ended at the end of the 19th century, and that through-composed music these days is a niche form that is "like" classical music but all but irrelevant. Another is that "classical music" refers to a specific period of time between rococo/pre-classical period and the proto-Remantic and Romantic Period. I've always enjoyed music history so when someone says "Classical Music", I always think of music during the late 18th century. Otherwise, to me, it's like calling everything between 1950 and now, "Rock Music".
> 
> So, when I saw your question, my first thought was "Joseph Haydn".


I'm surprised to see this very narrow interpretation of "classical music".

Classical music as normally understood - like for example here at T-C- comprises:

1. Early period (Medieval & Rennaissance)
2. Common Practice Period (Baroque, "Classical", Romantic)
3. 20th & 21st C (Modern, Post Modern/contemporary)

The OP clearly had this broader definition in mind, in asking about aspects of the Medieval period..


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

ECraigR said:


> My understanding is that these texts don't contain any music, just words. Whether or not you want to call songs without music classical music is a different topic, but I've thought of them as just poetry.


They were set to music using neumes.


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## ECraigR (Jun 25, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> They were set to music using neumes.


Were they really? That's interesting; I was unaware. I've read through some of them in the Latin because I'm a Latinist, and I just thought that the music had been lost or something along those lines. Thanks for the information!


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

I sometimes feel that Hildegarde von Bingen is unfairly upheld as the only medival composer of note. It is true that Hildegarde von Bingen had the good fortune to have all her works survive (as far as we know), but there were other figures from the period such as Hermann von Reichenau.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2019)

BachIsBest said:


> I sometimes feel that Hildegarde von Bingen is unfairly upheld as the only medival composer of note. It is true that Hildegarde von Bingen had the good fortune to have all her works survive (as far as we know), but there were other figures from the period such as Hermann von Reichenau.


There's a very long list of medieval composers given in Wiki. This is the first place I would look for anything about music of a general nature I didn't know. I found this in a jiff, simply by googling "medieval composers".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medieval_composers

As may be seen from the list, apparently the first was _Romanos The Melodist_, born around 490 in the region of Syria.

He was followed by dozens of others.

However, the first big name composer was, as already mentioned, Hildegard of Bingen (I'm not aware an "e" at the end of "Hildegard").

She was then followed by a further long list of names.

Among these, there are 3 whose names stand out well above the others. Two of them, Leonin and Perotin, I mentioned previously.

The other is Guillaume de Machaut (1300-1377), generally considered to be the most famous composer of the 14th C. He is the first of the main medieval composers for whom there is a lot of biographical information. He wrote in a range of styles, and his most famous work is probably _Messe de Nostre Dame._


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Partita said:


> The other is Guillaume de Machaut (1300-1377), generally considered to be the most famous composer of the 14th C. He is the first of the main medieval composers for whom there is a lot of biographical information. He wrote in a range of styles, and his most famous work is probably _Messe de Nostre Dame._


I remember that Machaut in a poll made by musicologists was considered the greatest composer of all times, not exactly a footnote in music history.
In any case since this thread is really interesting I was listening to Kassia on youtube and I hear a lot of polyphony... I guess that with those ancient composers we can just have a not very close approximation of the real intention of the composer.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

norman bates said:


> I remember that Machaut in a poll made by musicologists was considered the greatest composer of all times, not exactly a footnote in music history.
> In any case since this thread is really interesting *I was listening to Kassia on youtube and I hear a lot of polyphony*... I guess that with those ancient composers we can just have a not very close approximation of the real intention of the composer.





Allerius said:


> In "The Complete Classical Music Guide", the first composer to appear is Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179). It seems that she was the first great composer whose name survived until our days.
> 
> *Léonin (fl. 1150s-1201) and Pérotin (ca. 1155-ca. 1200) were the first non-anonymous composers to make use of polyphony*, and are among the earliest notable names of classical music aswell.


Perhaps the information I provided is not accurate at all. Here is what is written in the book "The Complete Classical Music Guide", my source:

"The rise of polyphonic (literally 'many-voiced') forms of composition from approximately the 12th century took place within the Church, as singers elaborated on the basic plainsong by the addition of other vocal parts on special occasions, such as Christmas or Easter. In the Cathedral of Notre-Dame de Paris, *Léonin and Pérotin are credited with having written the first body of two-, three-, and four-part music to be circulated in manuscript form*. By the 13th century, a large repertory of polyphony was found in major churches across Europe, and secular forms of music were also being written in more than one part. By the 15th century, polyphonic music was widespread and had become a necessary part of important religious and courtly celebrations." 

The book is from 2012.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

How did music that had been intended for ecclesiastical purposes come to be aggregated into 'classical music'? Is it just a case of it being old and not intended for popular consumption? If the latter, why are so much of what would be considered as 'popular' music of a period also included in CM? It seems that there are some very arbitrary and perhaps questionable definitions being used.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

norman bates said:


> I remember that Machaut in a poll made by musicologists was considered the greatest composer of all times...


Sounds like a perverse group of Machauvinists.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Becca said:


> How did music that had been intended for ecclesiastical purposes come to be aggregated into 'classical music'? Is it just a case of it being old and not intended for popular consumption? If the latter, why are so much of what would be considered as 'popular' music of a period also included in CM? It seems that there are some very arbitrary and perhaps questionable definitions being used.


I'm not sure, but perhaps it's _classical_ in the sense that it survived for so much time and is still worthy of being listened today. The best example to illustrate my point is the medieval popular song Douce Dame Jolie, by Machaut, which continue to have significance nowadays, being covered by many musicians of our time, classical or not (by Annwn in the video below).


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^If that is the case, at what point do we consider survival as a sufficient qualification for inclusion? 100 years? or...? That certainly starts raising any number of questions about the meaning of the term classical ... as if there aren't already plenty of questions. And then there is the term 'art music' ... another can of worms.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Becca said:


> ^^If that is the case, at what point do we consider survival as a sufficient qualification for inclusion? 100 years? or...? That certainly starts raising any number of questions about the meaning of the term classical ... as if there aren't already plenty of questions. And then there is the term 'art music' ... another can of worms.


True. If you consider "classical music" as something that stood the test of time, you have a lot of contemporary _classical_ that is not "classical" in that sense, but that can still be classified as "art music", a term that has it's problems for it's possibility of blending non-popular with popular music compositions, and that may not include some popular music from centuries ago.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

While I would not accuse anyone of doing this intentionally, it does seem to me that many of the definitions are rather arbitrary and mostly designed to serve the greater glory of classical music compared to that which we consider as non-classical. Beyond that, the further that one goes back in time AND the closer one gets to the present, there is little consistency in the criteria.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2019)

Becca said:


> How did music that had been intended for ecclesiastical purposes come to be aggregated into 'classical music'? Is it just a case of it being old and not intended for popular consumption? If the latter, why are so much of what would be considered as 'popular' music of a period also included in CM? It seems that there are some very arbitrary and perhaps questionable definitions being used.


I assume you are referring to medieval ecclesiastical music?

If so, you've got to be careful here because what you say about medieval music applies with much the same force in respect of much of the music of the Rennaisance era, the early baroque, and quite a lot of the mid baroque era too. Think of all the masses, hymns, motets and whatever else of the same ilk was produced over these centuries.

Therefore, on your argument, some or all of this later ecclesiastical music, after the medieval period, is also of dubious relevance to "classical music". I don't think so.

I wouldn't wish to put an exact date on it but would guess that it wasn't until the late baroque or early classical era that church music in its various forms became less significant in terms of the amount produced.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The area does tend to get more fuzzy the deeper one goes. As to your comments about later ecclesiastical music, maybe, but I do think that there was an increasing distinction between the motivation and/or sponsor of a piece, the composer and the consumer. The question of consumer is by itself more complicated as it went from those who were part of the church establishment and more and more became the congregation.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2019)

Becca said:


> The area does tend to get more fuzzy the deeper one goes. As to your comments about later ecclesiastical music, maybe, but I do think that there was an increasing distinction between the motivation and/or sponsor of a piece, the composer and the consumer. The question of consumer is by itself more complicated as it went from those who were part of the church establishment and more and more became the congregation.


I don't have any problems in identifying sacred music in all of its guises, throughout the ages, as being part of the overall classical music scene. If it were to be excluded completely, there would be hardly anything remaining before around the mid 16th C.

I cannot see that there is any justification for excluding such music on the basis that its purpose was to meet ecclesiastical requirements. That would be hard to defend since there is no reason to believe that the compositional principles underpinning the otherwise accepted classical music of the day could not be applied to ecclesiastical music as well as secular music.

In fact, it's very likely that ecclesiastical music throughout the ages, including the medieval period, is correctly treated as classical music because its principal customers, i.e. the Church and possibly the lay nobility, were no doubt fussy and demanding clients who could afford the best, and demanded the best music (as they saw it), that was available.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I consider Hildegard von Bingen part of classical music because as time progressed she's often listened to by those who listen to Bach, Mahler, and many of the other immortals. I feel that her monophonic writing is tremendous, consisting of exactly one melodic line. The melodies can be soaring and have a certain singular freedom rather than the polyphonic writing that was later to come. There's such a clear relationship between her music and text. Not only in music, but let's not forget her brilliance as a human being and woman as a writer, philosopher, natural healer, Christian mystic and visionary. I would love to have met her. She wrote the pure melodic line.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2019)

Larkenfield said:


> I consider Hildegard von Bingen part of classical music because as time progressed she's often listened to by those who listen to Bach, Mahler, and many of the other immortals. I feel that her monophonic writing is tremendous, consisting of exactly one melodic line. The melodies can be soaring and have a certain singular freedom rather than the polyphonic writing that was later to come. There's such a clear relationship between her music and text. Not only in music, but let's not forget her brilliance as a human being and woman as a writer, philosopher, natural healer, Christian mystic and visionary. I would love to have met her. She wrote the pure melodic line.


The very first time I heard any of her sacred works I was highly impressed with its quality. I used to like Gregorian Chant, and still do, but Hildegard added considerably to this basic form with clear lines of text and more variation in melody. It's quite amazing to think that this high quality of music was being performed such a long time ago. Far more of her music survives than that of any other medieval composer. Of all the medieval composers, she is surely the most famous and popular these days.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> Nonsense. No one in their right mind believes this. The 20thc produced some of the most popular music in the standard repertoire and classical music was a living breathing tradition throughout. Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, Bartok, Ravel Sibelius, Vaughan-Williams, Debussy and many others were part of this tradition. Some lived into the 1970s.


Not saying that I agree with this, but it's worth pointing out that every one of those composers, listed by you, were born in the last decades of the 19th century.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

ECraigR said:


> Were they really? That's interesting; I was unaware. I've read through some of them in the Latin because I'm a Latinist, and I just thought that the music had been lost or something along those lines. Thanks for the information!


This ridiculously long link should lead to images of Hildegard's manuscripts. She used neumes on a four line staff with C and F clefs:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hil...KHYrOC_MQsAR6BAgHEAE&biw=1475&bih=660&dpr=0.9


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

vtpoet said:


> Not saying that I agree with this, but it's worth pointing out that every one of those composers, listed by you, were born in the last decades of the 19th century.


Shostakovich was born in 1906. In any case, you specified music of the 20thc, not music composed by people born in the 20thc.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> Shostakovich was born in 1906. In any case, you specified music of the 20thc, not music composed by people born in the 20thc.


As you know, it's perfectly clear that the OP was asking about the first composer of what is generally understood today to be classical music. It seems like a waste of time arguing with people who have taken an incorrect interpretation of classical music, thinking it to be music of the "classical style" of the second half of the 18th C.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Partita said:


> I don't have any problems in identifying sacred music in all of its guises, throughout the ages, as being part of the overall classical music scene. If it were to be excluded completely, there would be hardly anything remaining before around the mid 16th C.


There was a tradition of secular art song for 200 years before the mid-16th century -- Machaut, Landini, Dufay, Binchois, Busnois, Ockeghem, Casserta, Solage, and many more -- some of the most beautiful and advanced music of the era. If all the ecclesiastical music disappeared there would be plenty left.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> There was a tradition of secular art song for 200 years before the mid-16th century -- Machaut, Landini, Dufay, Binchois, Busnois, Ockeghem, Casserta, Solage, and many more -- some of the most beautiful and advanced music of the era. If all the ecclesiastical music disappeared there would be plenty left.


Thanks for this. I accept that there was secular music of various types (art song and instrumental) before the mid-16th C. In fact, I have examples from several composers including those above. My remark was therefore over-stated that there would be hardly anything remaining before around the mid 16th C if ecceleasistical music was excluded.

However, as a partial excuse, I offer the following wiki article on the subject of Renaissance music, 1400-1600 aprox. It refers to the existence of secular music over this period, with names like Dunstaple, Binchois Du Fay as examples from the earlier/mid parts. But the emphasis seems to be on "sacred" music. It also notes that secular music became more significant from the mid-16th C onwards, i.e. late Renaissance period.

Given this, if all sacred music was stripped out pre mid 16th C, and we were left only with secular music, it's perhaps debatable whether the word "plenty" is the appropriate word to describe the amount of classical music that would exist over that period. At any rate, I think that it's the sacred music that is probably the best remembered component.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_music


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's a 13th-centry secular (I think) ditty: Guiot de Dijon's _Chanterai por mon coraige_. The video says it's early 1200s. A nice piece!


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Partita said:


> As you know, it's perfectly clear that the OP was asking about the first composer of what is generally understood today to be classical music.


Never said he wasn't.



Partita said:


> It seems like a waste of time arguing with people who have taken an incorrect interpretation of classical music, thinking it to be music of the "classical style" of the second half of the 18th C.


That's not an incorrect interpretation of "Classical Music". It _does_ actually mean that in certain contexts. Ignorance of that fact doesn't make it untrue. Just saying.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> Shostakovich was born in 1906. In any case, you specified music of the 20thc, not music composed by people born in the 20thc.


What's our point in all this? That you disagree with people who don't consider 20th Century through-composed to be classical? Well, good for you. You've made yourself clear.

My own point wasn't to agree with them, simply to mention the different ways "classical" is used.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2019)

KenOC said:


> Here's a 13th-centry secular (I think) ditty: Guiot de Dijon's _Chanterai por mon coraige_. The video says it's early 1200s. A nice piece!


Why is a teddy-bear climbing on the backs of the two soldiers loading the catapult?


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## Edi Drums (Jan 17, 2020)

I totally agree: Joseph Haydn (1732-1809) - who cited CPE Bach and Nicola Porpora as heavy influences.

Kapellmeister Franz Josef was soon churning out the early classics for the fans, courtesy of a stable residency and frequent gigs and touring. 1750s deep and tribal [Ester]háus.


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## Edi Drums (Jan 17, 2020)

vtpoet said:


> ... when someone says "Classical Music", I always think of music during the late 18th century. Otherwise, to me, it's like calling everything between 1950 and now, "Rock Music". So, when I saw your question, my first thought was "Joseph Haydn".


I totally agree: Joseph Haydn (1732-1809) - who cited CPE Bach and Nicola Porpora as heavy influences.

Kapellmeister Franz Josef was soon churning out the early classics for the fans, courtesy of a stable residency and frequent gigs and touring. 1750s deep and tribal [Ester]háus.


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