# Where to start in sacred music?



## Shea82821

I have to admit: for a very long time, I've generally found most vocal music somewhat dull. I expressed that sentiment from the start of my love of classical music, as a kid. Why exactly, I can't say.

But recently, I've been dipping my toes into the immense depths of that genre. And I've found myself most attracted (so far) to sacred or sacral-based music. The only problem is I'm a bit lost as to what would be a good piece for a newbie like myself, to start with as a first. First piece here, as in a first to listen through completely. I've so far only been sampling bits here and there. 

If I sound a bit naïve here, I'm sorry about that. I guess it's what happens when you ignore something as expansive as this for so long.


----------



## Art Rock

I'd start with Faure's Requiem. Beautiful, and not too long.


----------



## Rogerx

This is one of Haydn's masses, or the Verdi Requiem. Not to forget Bach Masses.


----------



## Kreisler jr

Many pieces like large scale oratorios are a bit long and can try ones patience if one is not used to them. So I'd try shorter pieces around 30-40 mins.

Bach: Magnificat, also try some of the famous cantatas like BWV 80 (A mighty fortress/Ein feste Burg...) or 140 (Sleepers, awake!/Wachet auf...) that have the eponymous chorale tune as "frame" and a good mix of choral and solo movements.

Handel: Dixit dominus, Utrecht Te Deum, Chandos anthems

Pergolesi: Stabat mater

Mozart: "coronation mass" K 317, Mass in c minor (a bit longer but you can split it up in parts)

Haydn: Nelson mass (in angustiis) and Mass in time of war (in tempore belli)


----------



## hammeredklavier




----------



## SanAntone

For me the best sacred music is *Early Music*, from *Gregorian Chant* up to *Palestrina*.

One vocal ensemble which brings a unique aesthetic to the music is *Graindelavoix* led by *Björn Schmelzer,* almost any of their recordings would do for a recommendation, but my favorite is their performance of the *Machaut* _Messe de Nostre Dame_.






You will notice, this is not calm, pretty, music, but has some edge, grit, and heft. Spirituality is not for the timid.


----------



## Manxfeeder

As a fan of sacred music, I agree with all the suggestions. 

One thing I appreciate about mass settings is, the text doesn't change, so once I learn that text, I don't have to bury my head in a libretto trying to figure out what they're singing about. And that opens the door to a ton of great sacred music.


----------



## eljr

SanAntone said:


> For me the best sacred music is *Early Music*, from *Gregorian Chant* up to *Palestrina*.
> 
> One vocal ensemble which brings a unique aesthetic to the music is *Graindelavoix* led by *Björn Schmelzer,* almost any of their recordings would do for a recommendation, but my favorite is their performance of the *Machaut* _Messe de Nostre Dame_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice, this is not calm, pretty, music, but has some edge, grit, and heft. Spirituality is not for the timid.


Found this in HD on one of my steaming services, I placed it in my queue.


----------



## SanAntone

eljr said:


> Found this in HD on one of my steaming services, I placed it in my queue.


Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Shea82821

Manxfeeder said:


> As a fan of sacred music, I agree with all the suggestions.
> 
> One thing I appreciate about mass settings is, the text doesn't change, so once I learn that text, I don't have to bury my head in a libretto trying to figure out what they're singing about. And that opens the door to a ton of great sacred music.


Quite, and it's fairly easy to memorize also. Least in the basic setting.


----------



## Shea82821

SanAntone said:


> For me the best sacred music is *Early Music*, from *Gregorian Chant* up to *Palestrina*.
> 
> One vocal ensemble which brings a unique aesthetic to the music is *Graindelavoix* led by *Björn Schmelzer,* almost any of their recordings would do for a recommendation, but my favorite is their performance of the *Machaut* _Messe de Nostre Dame_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice, this is not calm, pretty, music, but has some edge, grit, and heft. Spirituality is not for the timid.


I understand that. Actually, reminds me of a discussion I had on this, with a friend not too long ago. He suspected part of the reason for my avoidance, was just for that: a fear of the spiritual aspect of it.

While plausible, considering it did partially arise when I was still an atheist, I find it isn't the whole story. I suspect the answer lies more in my past stubbornness to anything that wasn't instrumentally "perfect." Which in essence equaled in having as much a taste in the music, as the pop-culture stereotype of classical music occasionally suggests. Very basic, very inane, simplistic, &c, &c. It's not a surprise that my recent interests, comes after having let go of that stubbornness.


----------



## joen_cph

Shea82821 said:


> I have to admit: for a very long time, I've generally found most vocal music somewhat dull. I expressed that sentiment from the start of my love of classical music, as a kid. Why exactly, I can't say.
> 
> But recently, I've been dipping my toes into the immense depths of that genre. And I've found myself most attracted (so far) to sacred or sacral-based music. The only problem is I'm a bit lost as to what would be a good piece for a newbie like myself, to start with as a first. First piece here, as in a first to listen through completely. I've so far only been sampling bits here and there.
> 
> If I sound a bit naïve here, I'm sorry about that. I guess it's what happens when you ignore something as expansive as this for so long.


It would also depend on what you usually like to hear ... not being religious myself, I tend to enjoy mainly the musical content, and to sympathize with religious works at least as dealing with general and existential problems ...


----------



## JTS

Handel’s Messiah.


----------



## SixFootScowl

JTS said:


> Handel's Messiah.


For sure. Then I would recommend listening to sacred music of your favorite composers. For masses, Haydn has some delightful masses. For something massive (pun) I would go with Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.


----------



## KevinW

Handel's Messiah conducted by Sir Colin Davis.


----------



## Rogerx

If you still searching:


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast

Bach's Motets or Palestrina's Missa Papae Marcelli. Fauré's Requiem, recommended by ArtRock, is also a great choice.


----------



## Dorsetmike

Monteverdi - Vespro Della Beata Vergine 1610;


----------



## Rogerx

João Domingos Bomtempo (Lisbon, December 28, 1775 -- Lisbon, August 18, 1842) was a Portuguese classical pianist, composer and pedagogue.

Work: Requiem in C-minor, Op.23 "À memória de Camões" (c.1818)

Highly recommended.


----------



## Ariasexta

I started with JS Bach`s Mass in B minor and Palestrina`s missa Papae Marcelli 20 years ago, both would be good starters.


----------



## Rogerx

Ariasexta said:


> I started with JS Bach`s Mass in B minor and Palestrina`s missa Papae Marcelli 20 years ago, both would be good starters.


Always good, I think I was 15 years that my mother took me to see the "St Matthew Passion"


----------



## Chilham

I started with Herreweghe/Collegium Vocale Gent's versions of Bach's Mass in B Minor, and Monteverdi's Vespro Della Beata Vergine. Both delightful. Herreweghe seems to have a slightly lighter 'touch' than others which works for me. Might be the same for you.


----------



## jegreenwood

I don’t think I’ve seen a mention of Bach Cantatas.


----------



## Kreisler jr

I mentioned Bach cantatas (in general and a few specific ones) in #4 in favor of his longer choral works for a beginner. The motets could be added to that and also some Psalms or the funeral music (Musikalische Exequien) by Schütz. But most people find early mid-17th century music a bit tougher than late baroque.


----------



## Ariasexta

Rogerx said:


> Always good, I think I was 15 years that my mother took me to see the "St Matthew Passion"


 Wonderful kind of pilgrimage. I always remember the old theatre of my town which is demolished now, where my childhood was condensed with movies and musical performances(The screen was an oldtyle large piece white curtain, a stage for actual performance is behind it when lifted up).


----------



## Ariasexta

jegreenwood said:


> I don't think I've seen a mention of Bach Cantatas.


Bach cantatas are varied in styles and individual pieces in numbers, so probably no one can be sure which to recommend. Me too, I would always recommend large scale pieces like masses or Te Deum of Marc Charpentier.


----------



## Rogerx

Ariasexta said:


> Wonderful kind of pilgrimage. I always remember the old theatre of my town which is demolished now, where my childhood was condensed with movies and musical performances(The screen was oldtyle white curtain, a stage for actual performance is behind it).


Mine was a church, wooden seats .


----------



## Ariasexta

Rogerx said:


> Mine was a church, wooden seats .


Nobody dares to ruin the church then, it could be the most wonderful property of the church, those wooden benches and old scratches are a part of the romance. Chinese billionaires are buying up protected by govt old houses with old wooden stuffs and selling us concrete skyscrapers.


----------



## hammeredklavier




----------



## Chatellerault

Kreisler jr said:


> Many pieces like large scale oratorios are a bit long and can try ones patience if one is not used to them. So I'd try shorter pieces around 30-40 mins.
> 
> Bach: Magnificat, also try some of the famous cantatas like BWV 80 (A mighty fortress/Ein feste Burg...) or 140 (Sleepers, awake!/Wachet auf...) that have the eponymous chorale tune as "frame" and a good mix of choral and solo movements.
> 
> Handel: Dixit dominus, Utrecht Te Deum, Chandos anthems
> 
> Pergolesi: Stabat mater
> 
> Mozart: "coronation mass" K 317, Mass in c minor (a bit longer but you can split it up in parts)
> 
> Haydn: Nelson mass (in angustiis) and Mass in time of war (in tempore belli)


I second that. Bach's Magnificat and BWV 80 Cantata feature some of his best chorales and solo arias and it's not as long and demanding (and gloomy) as the Passions.

And in the two mentioned Haydn masses, we get to know Haydn's most dramatic side, from the time of the Napoleonic wars. Quite different from most of his symphonies and the cliché of "happy Haydn / serious Beethoven"

From 20th century choral music, I recommend you to check Ligeti (Lux Aeterna) and Messiaen (Trois petites liturgies)


----------



## Rogerx

Suddenly I thought at this one, good starters point .


----------



## CnC Bartok

I'd politely suggest trying:
Allegri: Miserere
Pergolesi: Stabat Mater
Beethoven: Mass in C major (then move on to the other mass, which is quite good!)

I'd also recommend the Janáček Glagolitic Mass, but a wildly unconventional mass by a confirmed agnostic is maybe not the best place to start, even if it is one of the great choral works of the last century.


----------



## Rogerx

You can also stay with Bach.


----------



## SanAntone

*Durufle*: _Requiem_, Op. 9






It worked for me.


----------



## Rogerx

Messe de requiem: Prélude - Requiem aeternam (Live)

Les Pages et Les Chantres, Orchestre des musiques anciennes et à venir, Olivier Schneebeli

Campra: Messe de requiem & In convertendo


----------



## 59540

Shea82821 said:


> I have to admit: for a very long time, I've generally found most vocal music somewhat dull. I expressed that sentiment from the start of my love of classical music, as a kid. Why exactly, I can't say.
> 
> But recently, I've been dipping my toes into the immense depths of that genre. And I've found myself most attracted (so far) to sacred or sacral-based music. The only problem is I'm a bit lost as to what would be a good piece for a newbie like myself, to start with as a first. First piece here, as in a first to listen through completely. I've so far only been sampling bits here and there.
> 
> If I sound a bit naïve here, I'm sorry about that. I guess it's what happens when you ignore something as expansive as this for so long.


Bach's Magnificat would be a good starting point. In this video you're provided a translation of the text in subtitles.


----------



## Rogerx

von Suppe 1855 Requiem
Stunning


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Chatellerault said:


> From 20th century choral music, I recommend you to check Ligeti (Lux Aeterna) and Messiaen (Trois petites liturgies)


Britten's War Requiem made a huge impression on me the first time I heard it many decades ago, and it still does.


----------



## ORigel

Brahms A German Requiem [Focuses on comforting the living-- doesn't follow Requiem text]

Dvorak Stabat Mater

Janacek Glagolitic Mass [In Old Czech not Latin. The composer was an atheist but you wouldn't be able to tell from the music]

Berlioz Te Deum [Grand]

Arvo Part-- Credo (Summa) [Short and beautiful]

Schnittke Requiem [avant-garde]

Ligeti Requiem [eerie, used in 2001: A Space Time Odyssey]

Rutter Requiem

Brunel Earthquake Mass

Monteverdi Vespers [One of my favorite choral works]

Monteverdi Missa in illo temporae

Schubert Mass No 6

Mendelssohn's Elijah [One of my favorite works because of its storyline]

Stravinsky's Mass

Byrd Mass for Four Voices

Beethoven Heiliger Dankgesang [A movement from a string quartet; depicts praying for relief and being healed of an illness and feeling new strength]

CPE Bach's Magnificat


----------



## ORigel

Also, try this setting of Marian material to then-popular medieval song tunes, The Miracles of Notre Dame by Coincy:


----------



## Rogerx

For this time of the year 
Weihnachtskonzert: DIE GEBURT CHRISTI - ORATORIUM VON HEINRICH VON HERZOGENBERG


----------



## Emperor of the North

There are lots of great sacred works from chant to nearly operatic orchestrations by many great composers. One of my favorites, at least as far as composers go, is Luigi Cherubini. I find his Masses to be highly enjoyable. I have a set on EMI conducted by Richard Muti and Neville Marriner bought off of Amazon. A 7-disc set for less than $30 that has gotten quite a bit of play at home, at work, and in the car.


----------



## marlow

If you want something a bit lively get a load of this by JSB


----------



## 59540

Ariasexta said:


> Bach cantatas are varied in styles and individual pieces in numbers, so probably no one can be sure which to recommend. ...


Here's a good starter:


----------



## mr bob

Rogerx said:


> For this time of the year
> Weihnachtskonzert: DIE GEBURT CHRISTI - ORATORIUM VON HEINRICH VON HERZOGENBERG


Nice suggestion! Never heard of this Austrian composer. Would be good if you could recommend something like this but in English language.


----------



## marlow

mr bob said:


> Nice suggestion! Never heard of this Austrian composer. Would be good if you could recommend something like this but in English language.







What about this?


----------



## Philidor

> Where to start in sacred music?


First thought: This depends from your preferences with classical music.

If you're into baroque music, Messiah or Christmas Oratorio could be obvious recommendations. But Monteverdi's Vespers and Biber's Missa Salisburgensis (= the obvious predecessor of Mahler 8  ) could be worth a try.

If Beethoven is your favorite, the Missa Solemnis. (The Mass in C major isn't too bad.)

Etc. ... Mendelssohn -> St. Paul, Elijah. But "Lobgesang"/"Hymn of Praise" could do the job.

Bruckner -> Te Deum and Psalm 150. Maybe Mass No. 3 F minor.

Brahms -> Deutsches Requiem

French Repertoire: Faure, Requiem; Duruflé, Requiem (charming!); Poulenc: Gloria



Ariasexta said:


> Bach cantatas are varied in styles and individual pieces in numbers, so probably no one can be sure which to recommend. Me too, I would always recommend large scale pieces like masses or Te Deum of Marc Charpentier.


Oh, that's no so difficult. Just listen to all cantatas several times, and you have a good overview. 

Early: BWV 131, BWV 106 ("Actus tragicus")
Weimar: BWV 61, BWV 21, BWV 63
Leipzig I: BWV 22/23, BWV 69a, BWV 95, BWV 65
Leipzig II: BWV 2, BWV 93, BWV 180, BWV 127
Leipzig III: BWV 56, BWV 98, BWV 79
Later, including "Ratswahl": BWV 80, BWV 51, BWV 29, BWV 82, BWV 140


----------



## hammeredklavier

---------------------------


----------



## Rogerx

If you like modern composers, this is a must have.


----------



## mr bob

marlow said:


> What about this?


I think yes, thanks. Despite I don't usually like funeral theme. But, on the first listen, the composition is beautiful. Will listen again. I'm open to further suggestions (for pure choir), if length is not longer than 8-10 minutes  The problem for me is that some pieces are quite long, often with about 3 large parts, like "La Messe de Nostre Dame" which is 28 min. long.


----------



## lele23




----------

