# Favorite / least favorite operatic languages?



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Curious as to others favorite and least favorite languages for opera -- disregarding the operas themselves, which language do you like to hear sung most and least. I'm sure Italian will be the runaway winner for favorite, and I'll concur with that, with French being a very close second. Those languages (Italian in particular) seem almost custom designed for opera -- very musical and flowing. Least favorite would be English, not that there's a great many of them I have to suffer through  I guess it's because English has so many dip- and tripthongs, making it very difficult to sing operatically ("Summertime" usually comes out "Sew-more-tome"). English is just not a very pretty language -- the 'a' in the (American pronounced) "bathroom" is a very ugly sound when sung, and "i" ('eye') is extremely difficult to sing since the "eye" sound is a glide between 'ah' and 'ee' and impossible to hold on its own.

I wonder if the ill-suitedness of English for opera is the reason there are so few English-language operas.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

OK, Italian first, sure. French second. German third.

But hey, operas in English aren't that few. Here's a partial list, just considering American operas (in addition to the Brittens and Purcells and the such):

Amahl and the Night Visitors​ Amelia Goes to the Ball​ Antony and Cleopatra​ The Aspern Papers​ The Ballad of Baby Doe​ The Boor​ The Canterbury Pilgrims​ The Consul​ The Cradle Will Rock​ Cyrano​ David Rizzio​ The Death of Klinghoffer​ Doctor Atomic​ Evangeline​ A Full Moon in March​ Gallantry​ The Ghosts of Versailles​ Goya​ The Greenfield Christmas Tree​ A Hand Of Bridge​ Harvey Milk​ I Was Looking At the Ceiling And Then I Saw the Sky​ Introductions and Good-Byes​ Judith​ The Jumping Frog of Calaveras County​ The King's Henchman​ Little Women​ Lord Byron​ The Medium​ Merry Mount​ Miss Havisham's Fire​ Miss Havisham's Wedding Night​ Nixon in China​ Peter Ibbetson​ The Picture of Dorian Gray​ The Pipe of Desire​ Porgy and Bess​ Postcard from Morocco​ A Quiet Place​ Robin Hood​ The Ruby​ The Sacrifice​ The Saint of Bleecker Street​ Six Characters In Search of an Author​ Solomon and Balkis​ The Stoned Guest​ The Stronger​ Susannah​ The Tender Land​ Treemonisha​ Trouble in Tahiti​ Vanessa​ A View From The Bridge​ The Visitation​ A Water Bird Talk​ Will You Marry Me?​


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

But there are some 10,000+ recognized operas, no? I'd say that's a pretty small percentage there


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Of course Italian. So mellifluous.

French is second, but because I'm a native speaker I'm incredibly fussy about who sings it. I saw the "alternative" Fille du regiment with Ciofi yesterday and I could hardly bear to listen to the Italians massacring the language in the spoken dialogue. 

I'm quite fussy about Italian too, so people like Jennifer Larmore and Eric Cutler are on my no-no list for Italian Opera.

I love Russian, such a sexy language, and I have the added advantage of not noticing bad accents.

German is fine for sounding angry. Just listen to Albericht when he can't get his hands on those pesky water-maidens.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> But there are some 10,000+ recognized operas, no? I'd say that's a pretty small percentage there


Good point. Actually I read the number 40,000 once. It seems too big a number. I don't remember the source.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> German is fine for sounding angry. Just listen to Albericht when he can't get his hands on those pesky water-maidens.


German is fine for more than that. Just think of the Presentation of the Rose scene.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> French is second, but because I'm a native speaker I'm incredibly fussy about who sings it. I saw the "alternative" Fille du regiment with Ciofi yesterday and I could hardly bear to listen to the Italians massacring the language in the spoken dialogue.


Still had to be better than my mom's preferred version, the NYCO Beverly Sills English language Fille du Regiment. While it was better than expected, it was still rather disconcerting.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Even if German isn't necessarily the most singable language, I still find it a beautiful language and love hearing it sung. More so than Italian, actually. There's just something very satisfying about German, and I wish I knew more of it.

I don't really like the sound of English, but a bunch of my favorite operas are in English anyway (mostly Britten). English dipthongs _are_ a little silly to sing, but it is usually accomplished by sustaining the first (usually more open) vowel and singing the other just briefly. In my voice lessons and choir, when singing "eye" sounds, I'm usually told to sing "ah" and then tack the "ee" on at the very end. It's the excess of S's that makes English seem a little ugly to me.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Italian is, by far the best language for opera, at least for me. French is not bad. I don't like either German or English for opera. The only German operas I love are those from Mozart. I guess I would have loved Wagner if he was Italian. It is true that he should have changed the mythology also. Otherwise, his music itself is wonderful.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

English is just not a very pretty language --

And yet in spite of being such an "ugly" language, English has produced what is quite likely the greatest body of literature and poetry.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I love English (though it's a second language for me), only I don't like it in opera. But I guess that between German and English for opera I'd go for English. German is not melodious enough. I have the same feeling with Russian or some other Slavic languages. That has nothing to do with literature. Both Russian and German literature are awesome.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I like French, Finnish, and German sung quite a lot. The issue I have with sung Italian is that it feels very capricious and jumpy, so I just don't like it as much.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

German, then Italian...and, well..as far as the least favorite...English


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

favorite : Italian , Spanish 

less : French, Russian, Czech 

least favorite : German , English


But don't forget that a good opera composer has to study so carefully the poetic of the language he/she is going to set in opera, whether the language supposed to be musically beautiful or not. In addition there are problems such as tonic accent, the number or the position of vowels in a definite stanza, combination between musical rhythm and strophe accents, etc ... Therefore It's been usually better for libretto to be written by a musician or composer (Remember Arigo Boito, one of the best librettists in the history of opera).


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> English is just not a very pretty language --
> 
> And yet in spite of being such an "ugly" language, English has produced what is quite likely the greatest body of literature and poetry.


Oh don't get me wrong, I love English for its incredible versatility. The advantage of being a mongrel language is that you have an incredible wealth of words with subtle variations in connotation to choose from in writing or speech. Snicker, snigger, chortle, guffaw, titter, chuckle, giggle -- they all basically mean laugh, but each one has its own subtle flavor. But, in my opinion anyway, it's not an inherently beautiful sounding language ala French. But at least it's not as ugly as Dutch! My ex was Dutch and when she'd talk to her mom on the phone it always sounded like she was bringing up phlegm.

Now I'm curious -- are there any Dutch-language operas?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Il_Penseroso said:


> favorite : Italian , Spanish
> 
> less : French, Russian, Czech
> 
> least favorite : German , English


Spanish? There aren't many operas in Spanish in the repertory.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

My favourite is Italian. I love the sound of Italian, the telephone directory sung in Italian would still sound gorgeous.

French is my second favourite & not being a native speaker means I don't have to worry too much about pronunciation. I'm 'appy if it sounds approximately Français.

Then it's Russian, like Natalie I think it sounds so sexy. I think Renée Fleming sounds fabulous on the Eugene Onegin DVD. 

I really struggle with German & that's probably why I can't get into Wagner. Die Zauberflöte is the only German one I've bought & that was only because of Simon.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Then it's Russian, like Natalie I think it sounds so sexy. I think Renée Fleming sounds fabulous on the Eugene Onegin DVD.


Funny, I watched the Met Eugene Onegin one of these days with a Russian friend, who loves opera but is a recent immigrant and up to recently had only enjoyed Russian productions made for the local market with all-Russian casts so she is quite unfamiliar with international opera stars. When Renée started singing, she said "who is this woman with the awful pronounciation of Russian who is murdering the mother tongue?"


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Funny, I watched the Met Eugene Onegin one of these days with a Russian friend, who loves opera but is a recent immigrant and up to recently had only enjoyed Russian productions made for the local market with all-Russian casts so she is quite unfamiliar with international opera stars. When Renée started singing, she said "who is this woman with the awful pronounciation of Russian who is murdering the mother tongue?"


Yes & that's the same as my feeling about French. She might be murdering Russian but she _sounds_ fabulous to me.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

rgz said:


> Now I'm curious -- are there any Dutch-language operas?


I have never heard them, but they exist. For example Flemish composer August de Boeck, who wrote at least 3 in Dutch.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

My favorite opera language is German being that one of my favorite operas is Elektra. I would love to hear an opera sung in an asian language actually, that would be a neat experience I think. 

My least favorite..hm not sure. I don't think I have a least favorite. I don't really like Italian Opera that much except for a few exceptions, so Ill go with that. 

I like English in opera because I can understand what they're saying


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Spanish? There aren't many operas in Spanish in the repertory.


There are so many beautiful spanish traditional musical dramas called Zarzuela(s) composed by Barbieri, Vives and other spanish composers from the late 19th and early 20th century which I've heard and enjoyed so much. Better to catagorized them as operas.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

My preferred language for opera is German with Italian not far behind. German is such a beautiful language, and I do think it lends itself very well to music. Italian is wonderful too, much for the same reasons.

My least favourite language for opera I think is Norwegian. It just sounds strange, but I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's my mother tongue.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

My favourite is Polish because I don't need to go through translated libretto + it's kewl language, and the least favourite - English, because currently it's language of pop culture and I feel weird while listening classical works sung in it. I also love German, Italian and French all of which I'm trying to learn. Not really in love with Russian and can't stop laughing when hearing Czech. 

Hungarian seems rather unsingable to me. Need to hear more in Scandinavian ones.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm a big fan of English over any other language.

Of course, I think French and Italian are beautiful languages, but English is just such an expansive, fascinating language that I cannot help but adore it above all others, in every medium: spoken, written, or sung. Even people who dislike it in opera have pointed out here that it is incredibly versatile, given its rich history of amalgamating different languages into one, super whole! However, I would make the leap to say that this is precisely why I _do_ love it in music. I would hazard a guess that most people think it sounds strange and ugly because it's so widely spoken, and so familiar, yet, when we grow up, most of us are initially exposed to operas in foreign languages.

I also think the language more generally is far from ugly, at least if you speak it with a wonderful English accent like me!  And it has such versatility - if you have a tender moment that you don't wish to spoil with Teutonic vulgar, there are a wealth of latinate words to employ; and yet you can just as easily switch back to Germanic vitriol.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Spanish? There aren't many operas in Spanish in the repertory.


No DVD that I can find but I have this wonderful recording, done in 1978.










and this, but I can't recommend


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Favourite: Russian; least favourite: Czech. I speak & understand Czech, but I find it one of the least musical languages (I mean the inner-music inside the spoken language) I've come across with. It has to do with the language being revived in the 19th century. Janacek for one used a Silesian dialect, which still had its old 'singing' roots. Italian, French, English, German: they all have their specific temperaments & flavours. "Der Ring *muss* ich haben!" shows a  that only Germans are able to put on their face & in their language.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

My favorite language for any given opera is the one in which the libretto was originally written. I do not want to hear Verdi sung in German, Wagner sung in French, or Mozart sung in English.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Il_Penseroso said:


> There are so many beautiful spanish traditional musical dramas called Zarzuela(s) composed by Barbieri, Vives and other spanish composers from the late 19th and early 20th century which I've heard and enjoyed so much. Better to catagorized them as operas.


I know, I do own two zarzuelas, but I'd rather categorize them as operettas.
As for true operas, the only two I know are La Vida Breve and El Retablo de Maese Pedro. I'd like to get to know Florencia en el Amazonas.


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I know, I do own two zarzuelas, but I'd rather categorize them as operettas.
> As for true operas, the only two I know are La Vida Breve and El Retablo de Maese Pedro. I'd like to get to know Florencia en el Amazonas.


Operas or Operettas, anyway we're talking about operatic languages, and I think Spanish is a good one 

El Retablo is magnificant ! Falla's masterwork !


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## CaptainAzure (May 2, 2011)

rgz said:


> Curious as to others favorite and least favorite languages for opera -- disregarding the operas themselves, which language do you like to hear sung most and least. I'm sure Italian will be the runaway winner for favorite, and I'll concur with that, with French being a very close second. Those languages (Italian in particular) seem almost custom designed for opera -- very musical and flowing. Least favorite would be English, not that there's a great many of them I have to suffer through  I guess it's because English has so many dip- and tripthongs, making it very difficult to sing operatically ("Summertime" usually comes out "Sew-more-tome"). English is just not a very pretty language -- the 'a' in the (American pronounced) "bathroom" is a very ugly sound when sung, and "i" ('eye') is extremely difficult to sing since the "eye" sound is a glide between 'ah' and 'ee' and impossible to hold on its own.
> 
> I wonder if the ill-suitedness of English for opera is the reason there are so few English-language operas.


Anything but ******* English

Operas in my native tongue bother me.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Of course, I think French and Italian are beautiful languages, but English is just such an expansive, fascinating language that I cannot help but adore it above all others, in every medium: spoken, written, or sung. Even people who dislike it in opera have pointed out here that it is incredibly versatile, given its rich history of amalgamating different languages into one, super whole! However, I would make the leap to say that this is precisely why I _do_ love it in music. I would hazard a guess that most people think it sounds strange and ugly because it's so widely spoken, and so familiar, yet, when we grow up, most of us are initially exposed to operas in foreign languages.


I do like the mixed origins of English. Makes it easier for us English-speakers to pick up both Latin-based and Germanic languages. But it just isn't as rich-sounding to me as German. Maybe it is because it's my native language, so I don't hear much in it to interest, sort of like people don't normally hear their own speech as accented. But your English at least sounds prettier than American English.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

'UK' English is at a disadvantage to a degree in opera as it usually lacks the flowing flamboyance of i.e. French and Italian and also the blood and thunder of i.e. German and Russian and often sounds over-plummy as regional accents are usually unsuitable unless used for comic effect. However, when set to poetry in the reduced format of song English can be absolutely beautiful.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Of course Italian. So mellifluous.
> 
> French is second, but because I'm a native speaker I'm incredibly fussy about who sings it. I saw the "alternative" Fille du regiment with Ciofi yesterday and I could hardly bear to listen to the Italians massacring the language in the spoken dialogue.
> 
> ...





StlukesguildOhio said:


> English is just not a very pretty language --
> 
> And yet in spite of being such an "ugly" language, English has produced what is quite likely the greatest body of literature and poetry.


Mama - i agree with you on the order, and Italian is my second language so Im as fussy with that as you are with French. Russian is just a beautiful language to sing in (Reminds me of singing 'Bogoroditse Devo' by Rachmaninov). This is a very clean version of it, certainly not the best, just different 




Stlukesguild couldn't be more right - i dont believe English is ugly either, it may not be as fluid as say Arabic, but it's not fab for opera.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Bix said:


> Stlukesguild couldn't be more right - i dont believe English is ugly either, it may not be as fluid as say Arabic, but it's not fab for opera.


I'm going to re-post this here (Aksel has it on another thread) to show how effective English can be:


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## Philmwri (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm American so of course I'm a native english speaker.I don't think english sounds ugly but it can sound boring.Italian is awesome because it flow so beatifully.French is beautiful too but you have to learn to sing it well.German and English aren't as beautiful but I like the way they sound. I like all languages.I think each language has something to offer its listeners.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'm going to re-post this here (Aksel has it on another thread) to show how effective English can be:


Superb! Hercules is wonderful - English is the same as German to me in Opera, its best utilised in this way as both languages are naturally frictive. If you where not to concentrate solely on lyrics you could think it was German.

I do love Handel.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Each operatic language is perfectly well suited to the individual operas,in whatever language. Verdi sounds just right in Italian, but odd in English.Some people ghave said that the choruses in his operas sound like Gilbert and Sullivan in English translations ! 
I agree.
German is perfectly suited to Wagner,or Richard Strauss, or Berg etc. It doesn't sound ugly at all with the right singers. No one could say that it sounds ugly when sung by Fritz Wunderlich ! 
It's the same for French and Russian etc. Czech is very awkward to sing because it has 
tongue-twisting consonant clusters which are awfully hard to pronounce. 
For example the word for person in Russian is Chelovek . But in Czech it's 
Clovek. There's a chevron over the C in Czech which means that's it's pronounced ch , and there's no vowel between ch and l as in Russian. Cheovek vs chlovek.
There's a notorious tongue-twister in Czech that goes Strch prst skrz krk ! 
This means "stick your finger down your throat". No vowels !
Singers often don't get the accent right in singing other languages for the same reason that we all tend to speak foreign languages with an accent
Our brains are wired from childhood to pronounce our native languages, and it's difficult to reproduce certain phonemes correctly . However, some singers are very good at singing different languages,such as Nicolai Gedda, who could sing flawless
French,Italian,German and Russian. 
When he sang the role of Anatol in the world premiere of Barber's Vanessa at the Met in the 50s, critics noted the he had the best and clearest diction of the whole cast, which was otherwise all American ! 
Russian is very difficult to pronounce correctly too, to get the real flavor of the language. For example, the dark L sound ,unlike the clear l sound of Italian,French and German ,is often missing when non-russians sing this language.
I once heard a long out of print recording on Decca of Eugene Onegin which was recorded by Serbian singers at the Belgrade opera in the 50s. Serbian is very similar to Russian , but they all sang with a thick Serbian accent !


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

superhorn said:


> Each operatic language is perfectly well suited to the individual operas,in whatever language. Verdi sounds just right in Italian, but odd in English.Some people ghave said that the choruses in his operas sound like Gilbert and Sullivan in English translations !
> I agree.
> German is perfectly suited to Wagner,or Richard Strauss, or Berg etc. It doesn't sound ugly at all with the right singers. No one could say that it sounds ugly when sung by Fritz Wunderlich !
> It's the same for French and Russian etc. Czech is very awkward to sing because it has
> ...


My wife immediately recognises when someone sings Russian having no native Russian tongue. Bulgarians like Christoff & Ghiaurov she picks out on the spot; Bulgarian is even closer to Russian than Serbian.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I've been listening to folk music from the Caucasus as well as their spectacular dances
on you tube. The indiginous languages of the Caucasus ,which has been controlled by Russia for so long are truly weird ,and I wonder how any one can sing them.
Circassian and Abkhazian, for example,which are as different from Russian as Arabic, seem to contain nothing but countless different consonant phonemes .
Spoken , they are unbelievably guttural, filled with hissing,rasping,gurgling ,
whistling and buzzing sounds . They come from the very back of the throat, and have 
what are called ejective consonants, p,t and K etc pronounced by constricting the glottis 
so that the phoneme literally explodes out of the mouth ! 
They sound mre like Klingon than a human language !


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

superhorn said:


> I've been listening to folk music from the Caucasus as well as their spectacular dances
> on you tube. The indiginous languages of the Caucasus ,which has been controlled by Russia for so long are truly weird ,and I wonder how any one can sing them.
> Circassian and Abkhazian, for example,which are as different from Russian as Arabic, seem to contain nothing but countless different consonant phonemes .
> Spoken , they are unbelievably guttural, filled with hissing,rasping,gurgling ,
> ...


Can you post an example?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Just go to you tube and look for "Circassians", and go to the video called "The Hatti" (an ancient middle eastern people believed to have been the ancestors of the Circassians) ,and listen to this weird-sounding language. There are also lots of videos for Circassian music and dance. 
The Chechen language is also weird. It sounds like a tape of some one speaking some language running backward, and is full of hicoughing sounds !


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

superhorn said:


> I've been listening to folk music from the Caucasus as well as their spectacular dances
> on you tube. The indiginous languages of the Caucasus ,which has been controlled by Russia for so long are truly weird ,and I wonder how any one can sing them.
> Circassian and Abkhazian, for example,which are as different from Russian as Arabic, seem to contain nothing but countless different consonant phonemes .
> Spoken , they are unbelievably guttural, filled with hissing,rasping,gurgling ,
> ...


You didn't know? Klingon opera is fantastic!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

superhorn said:


> Just go to you tube and look for "Circassians", and go to the video called "The Hatti" (an ancient middle eastern people believed to have been the ancestors of the Circassians) ,and listen to this weird-sounding language. There are also lots of videos for Circassian music and dance.


Fascinating. I don't know where "Spencer Edward" comes into it though!



superhorn said:


> The Chechen language is also weird. It sounds like a tape of some one speaking some language running backward, and is full of hicoughing sounds !


It wouldn't matter then if the audience coughs during the performance.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)




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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Amazing. It reminds me of the music of that weirdo microtonal California composer Harry Partch (1901- 1974). You can also check this composer's music out at youtube.
He invented his own musical instruments which divided the scale into not 12, but 43 !
pitches ! 
The Circassians,like the Hungarians and Japanese, put peiople's first and last names backward. Edward Spencer was apparently an English historian who wrote about the Circassians. It's a very ancient and fascinating region, located between the Black and Caspian seas .


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

By the way, the great conductor Yuri Temirkanov, music director of the St.Petersburg Philharmonic, though usually described as a Russian, is in fact, an ethnic Circassian 
from the Caucasus.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2011)

I enjoy German the most, because I speak German (second language), so I can actually understand it. And I think it can be a very beautiful language sung - just listen to any of Schubert's Lieder, and you can hear the vast spectrum of emotions in sung German, or any of Mahler's Lieder. Or the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony.

Italian and French come in second.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Klingon opera is fantastic!


Absolutely--a seriously underappreciated genre. I'm shocked no Klingon opera made our Top 100 Recommended Operas list!

There are so many great ones, but my personal favorite is Aktuh and Maylota:






For the longest time I despaired of seeing these great works produced. But now, finally, there is reason for hope:






What can I say? It just doesn't get any better.

And of course, Wagner always sounds much better in the original Klingon . . .


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> It just doesn't get any better.


I'm glad that you're also a fan. And it's reaching mainstream:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I'm glad that you're also a fan. And it's reaching mainstream.


Make you a deal. When voting begins for the Top 101 - 200 Operas, let's make sure Aktuh and Maylota gets top billing. Don't tell anyone else about the plan, though. This is our little secret.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I cannot deny the value of Italian and German language for opera. Personally I love Russian. FOR ME: French, Spanish and English suck.

Martin


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

If I had to pick I'd say German, there's just something about that language that draws me to it. French and Italian are lovely too. English is my first language so it sounds very mundane to my ears, where as _every_ other language sounds exotic. Maybe thats why I prefer opera to be sung in any language but english.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

CountessAdele said:


> If I had to pick I'd say German, there's just something about that language that draws me to it. French and Italian are lovely too. English is my first language so it sounds very mundane to my ears, where as _every_ other language sounds exotic. Maybe thats why I prefer opera to be sung in any language but english.


The "exotic" thing applies to me as well--for that reason I never seem to enjoy an opera translated into English. The art form itself is so highly stylized, to my ear it somehow needs that distancing effect of being sung in a foreign language.

Of course it must be a very different experience for native-speaking Italian, French, or German listeners who grow up on opera in their own respective languages.


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## MAnna (Sep 19, 2011)

I guess I would pick Italian, mainly because it sounds good and I do not speak the language. I prefer hearing the notes and tones of the lyrics rather than the words. It's more aurally pleasing that way.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> The "exotic" thing applies to me as well--for that reason I never seem to enjoy an opera translated into English. The art form itself is so highly stylized, to my ear it somehow needs that distancing effect of being sung in a foreign language.
> 
> Of course it must be a very different experience for native-speaking Italian, French, or German listeners who grow up on opera in their own respective languages.


The problem is not with the English language in itself. There are some very beautiful operas in English. Case in point:






My problem is with operas that are translated into English. I believe that most of the time (with exceptions, usually those that were reworked by the composer himself) opera in translation is just not as beautiful, since the vocal writing when well done should take into account the specific sonorities, rhythm, and metric of the language.

Case in point, _Porgy & Bess_ - can you imagine a translation into French? The very beautiful and melodious opening of its most famous aria, the long and wavy uttering of the word "summertime" would be translated into - gasp - étééééééééé!


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I enjoy Opera in any language. I've heard a few: italian, german, french, english, russian, czech, hungarian, spanish, portuguese, romanian, dutch, swedish, danish, greek, polish,... Here below is one written in komi, a language from a small community living in the northen Ural Mountains, some 500,000 people all told. The composer is Serge Noskov:






About translations, it was quite normal to represent Opera during an extended period. Even today, companies like ENO perform in this way.

Apart from the cases where the composer himself adapts the Opera, that are fully acceptable, modern practice calls for the original version.

In my view, with the advent of subtitles technology, this is the right way to go. However, I enjoy operatic versions in other languages, if well sung. Of course, there are operas that are more amenable to it than others.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

schigolch said:


> I enjoy Opera in any language. I've heard a few: italian, german, french, english, russian, czech, hungarian, spanish, portuguese, romanian, dutch, swedish, danish, greek, polish,... Here below is one written in komi, a language from a small community living in the northen Ural Mountains, some 500,000 people all told. .


Whaaaat? You mean you've never heard opera in Klingon? Pffftt... Amateur!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Interesting opera excerpt from the Komi republic. The sound level was low, so I couldn't make it out very well. Actually, it sounded more like Russian to me. The Komi language is related to Finnish, Estonian and Lappish, and more distantly to Hungarian.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

The Opera is complete in youtube. 

My knowledge of Komi is non existent, and it sounds like Russian to me, too.


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

I would go for German -i find it a very lovely language, full of unspoken nuance! Then Russian, a language i don't understand but male Russian voices send shivers down my spine. I also love Czech. Janacek and Dvorak use the language so beautifully.

As for English, well it depends on the translation and when it was done. I really enjoy the Opera in English series by Chandos. Listening in English brings new insights into both the familiar and unfamiliar but i think it is a hard language to sing and i hate watching productions in English where you have to read the surtitles because the pronunciation is so bad


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## BalloinMaschera (Apr 4, 2011)

Least favorite must be Russian & Czech , as they are the two main-stream opera languages that I don't speak... which doesn't mean to say that I don't listen to or watch opera in these two languages.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> English is just not a very pretty language --
> 
> And yet in spite of being such an "ugly" language, English has produced what is quite likely the greatest body of literature and poetry.


For poetry is unbeatable, I think we are speaking about opera here...For judging also is better when you speak many languages...It is just an opinion (know to jedge better)

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Russian...a beautiful language for opera:






a modern version? LOL






Onieguin:






Martin


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Favorite - German. There is something earnest and passionate in its sound that is just perfect for telling stories about love and death or just beautiful tales.
Second favorite - English, much for the same reasons. 
Indifferent - Italian. It's OK, but doesn't give me any special emotions.
Least favorite - French and Russian. French I just plain don't like and Russian is difficult for me to associate with any "high art" at all.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I generally hate English Language Opera because I can then understand what they're singing about  My favorite languages would be: Italian, German, French, and I suppose Russian a distant 4th ('Eugene Onegin' Russian, of course, not 'Boris Gudunov' Russian  I do like some ELO, of course, 'Peter Grimes', 'Antony and Cleo' (Menotti's reconstruction, the only one I know), and 'Vanessa' to mention only three.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

What an interesting question. 

I am a native speaker of english, and also to be sure I enjoy understanding the opera by not having to read subtitles, however hearing opera in english is still a little bit weird and I don't appreciate it much. It has nothing to do with being an ugly language, I just appreciate italian and german more. 

I have studied both German and Spanish, and I must say that I do not agree at all with the idea that german is an ugly language. In my opinion the clear winner for ugliest language has got to be spanish. It has some of the worst sounds imaginable, try thinking of the infamous 'ch' sound from German (as in 'Bach'). At least in German that sound only appears in the middle or ending of a word, when Ch occurs in the beginning of a word it is pronounced like a straight 'K' sound. Spanish (at least here in mexico) actually has words that start out with that! (think: 'Güey') Spanish is a romance language, so you think it would be better. But, alas, no. 

Also I hate the 'nasal' sounding french. And, although I still appreciate them, whenever I attend a new opera (new to me) by a favorite italian composer to learn it was composed during his 'french' period, I am totally, totally dissappointed. 

Also one thing I appreciate about english and german more than the romance languages is rhyming. It isn't too hard to rhyme in romance language, where every word is declinated by gender, and though rhyming isnt the most important factor, english & german still win hands down to any of the romance languages.


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

What about Chinese?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dutch and Flemish have nothing particular to recommend them as a first choice - it is a number of the consonant sounds, especially, not the vowel sounds, which are what is really what are sung in any language.


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## tamerlano (Jul 12, 2012)

Italian and Russian are certainly the languages that ideally project the voice, I think that the French nasal sounds are pretty difficult to sing: 'mon enfant' does not ring naturally... Sandrine Piaud, a celebrated French soprano, has recently recorded a Frenh song recital, and you cannot really understand a single word...


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Russian, of course


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## Dakota (Jun 30, 2012)

NightHawk said:


> I generally hate English Language Opera because I can then understand what they're singing about


LOL, I totally agree, and also with Obwan's comments. When I hear an opera sung in English the words just get in the way of my appreciation of the music and are very jarring. The only thing worse, in my mind, than an opera written in English, is one *translated* into English; that is a complete abomination!


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

sah said:


> What about Chinese?


This video is so funny!!:lol:

But I can't understand the music. Is he sad, happy, in love or wants to revenge on someone? 
Or, he just is explaining that he suffers stomach pain? 
Is he singing or just complaining "ah, jih, oo..."

Just kidding...:lol:


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

I like all the languages, but better if I can understand the words (italian,catalan, spanish, finnish, english). For me if the opera is dubbed in english or in italian that makes it more understandable.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I speak Cantonese, but nobody understands me.

Martin, confused


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I speak Cantonese, but nobody understands me.
> 
> Martin, confused


Really? That's fun.
Don't worry,sure in China someone can.


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## SnowMaiden (Jul 29, 2012)

Prefer Russian because i'm russian lol Actually, Italian is perfect. I also love some coloratura arias in French if there's not so much of nasal sound like Dessay has for ex...


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

*I like the sound of Latin language.. very much*. Too bad there are no operas in Latin.

I like the sound of German and Italian too. I'd like to hear some opera in Spanish.

I have nothing against operas in French, though I do not like the sound of French language in general. Some people find it beautiful, I don't.

***
So, Latin (with the modernised pronounciation) is the best. Maybe someone will write an opera in it?


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Moscow-Mahler said:


> *I like the sound of Latin language.. very much*. Too bad there are no operas in Latin.
> 
> I like the sound of German and Italian too. I'd like to hear some opera in Spanish.
> 
> ...


Ah, but there is!
Mozart wrote at least one.

And I'm assuming you mean Italian Latin. Regional varieties still exist.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

Aksel,

yeah, thanks. German (or Russian gymnasium) Latin is also good -with "ts" not "tch". 

I mean not classical Latin with "k" everywhere.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Moscow-Mahler said:


> Aksel,
> 
> yeah, thanks. German (or Russian gymnasium) Latin is also good -with "ts" not "tch".
> 
> I mean not classical Latin with "k" everywhere.


I figured. Not particularly a fan of Slavic Latin, but oh well.

There are also Catholic oratorios which are usually in Latin. Like Vivaldi's Juditha Triumphans.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

English. 

I prefer spoken English to spoken German by a wide, wide margin. But, not in operatic music.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

German affricates is sometimes hard to sing, I suppose...


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I don't know that I have a "favorite" operatic language. Someone up-thread wrote that the only thing important to him/her is that the opera is sung in the language in which it was originally written. Generally I agree strongly with that, although I admit I wouldn't mind hearing an English-language FIDELIO or DIE ZAUBERFLOETE, as German and English are at least closely related. Also, I own a recording on the Chandos label of LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR sung in an English translation. I enjoy it because the translation used is excellent and because the opera is, of course, set in Scotland.

I guess if I had to pick favorite operatic languages they would be Italian and German, followed by Russian. English is good for musicals, whose songs tend to be vocally less wide-ranging, but the language can sound a little strange sung at extremely high or low pitches. I do think French tends to close up the voice and make projection harder; on the other hand, it seems good for keeping the voice "forward" and probably doesn't encourage over-singing. 

To comment on something else said up-thread, I don't believe there is an "ugly" language. I think every language has an inherent beauty that can be brought out when spoken well. German shrieked by Hitler sounds like quite a different thing than German spoken by a professional actor reading Goethe.* An anecdote: On an Italian-language news program I saw, a reporter was interviewing a girl about to start high school, where she would have to choose between taking English or taking French. She chose English because, as she said, "English is a more beautiful language."

* Edited to add: Think of the German of the Recognition Scene in ELEKTRA. It's tender-sounding and poetic. I love that word "Traumbild"; it's probably great for projecting the voice on the high note.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

I love all the languages, particularly Russian, Italian, French and German. They're good for different things, italian is very romantic, almost slushy but still retains an edge when it needs to. Russian and French are very seductive, and German is very noble sounding, elevated (especially with Wagner). 

Oh I forgot Hungarian sounds gorgeous in Duke Bluebeard's Castle.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

Moscow-Mahler said:


> *I like the sound of Latin language.. very much*. Too bad there are no operas in Latin.
> 
> I like the sound of German and Italian too. I'd like to hear some opera in Spanish.
> 
> ...


Dude check out stravinsky's Oedipus rex, its latin and its a wonderful opera.


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## Fermat (Jul 26, 2013)

Favorite: Italian
Least Favorite: German


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

I prefer English because I can understand it. Does that make me a philistine?


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

Favorites - Italian and German
Least Favorite - English and French

I love English vocal works, but in opera it just hurts my head. Of course I do like Gilbert and Sullivan.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I have no favorites.

English is my least favorite, because when I can understand the words, the mismatch between the melodic lines and the natural rhythm and flow of the spoken language is so much more obvious. 

Someone above mentioned musicals, and I can understand that because pop-style tunes in English seem to be more concerned with the normal patterns of the spoken language. Older operas originally written in other languages and translated into English were not melodically designed for the idiom. Modern operas written in English are usually, by nature, unmelodic to begin with and sound like one long recitative to me.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I like French (Lully, Rameau, Bizet) because I can understand it in part, and what I can't sounds so stylish. 

In a way, it's frustrating to watch an opera in English, because you often can't hear the words or work out the sentence till it's too late. If it's in Italian, I can just read the surtitles. Also, an English opera singer may have a bit of a posh accent, though these days a more neutral BBC sound is more common. I'm hoping my response to 'upper-crust' accents is not down to inverted snobbery* but because it sounds too buttoned-up & well-bred for the world of opera. 

(* Hope I've done enough here to fend off a riposte from the famous Knight in Armour!  )


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> English.
> 
> I prefer spoken English to spoken German by a wide, wide margin. But, not in operatic music.





> English is my least favorite, because when I can understand the words, the mismatch between the melodic lines and the natural rhythm and flow of the spoken language is so much more obvious.


Never say I don't repeat myself...................


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

While my Opera experience is somewhat limited. My preferred language for Opera is German. 

I also don't mind Italian or English.

I'm not big fan of French, Russian or Czech. At the same time I think I've only heard 3 in Russian, 2 in Czech...not sure how many French ones but probably under a dozen.

I don't know that I've heard any Operas in any languages other than those.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

Italian, Italian, Italian, and Italian.

And....oh, yes. Italian.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

^ that's how I see it as well. English opera sounds like one long recitative. Italian has such a flow to it, and it really works in opera. Lots of words that sound similar and work with each other. Even German, even though people don't like it (nutjobs), can sound amazing in operatic form. Mozart's German operas sit high up with the finest Italian operas.


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

The Italians invented the thing, for crying out loud. The word "opera" itself is Italian.


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

My favorite language for sopranos is German, and Italian for all other voice types. French is my second favorite and Russian third.

My least favorite language is English because: 1. It takes away the enigma for me. 2. Opera and the English language are just not a good match.


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## Oberon (Jan 18, 2013)

Celloman said:


> The Italians invented the thing, for crying out loud. The word "opera" itself is Italian.


Not that it should mean anything, though. The first modern novel was Spanish and I doubt if the country be now regarded as the epicentre of the genre.

This said, Italian is by far one of my favoured operatic tongues. That and German, which possesses such a spiritual quality. I mean- Schubert's Lieder ! I tend to feel that a stress-count language works much better for song, though English, one of my favourite idioms on paper, has always put me off when sung. French I can't stand- the only French opera I can listen to is Carmen.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Celloman said:


> The Italians invented the thing, for crying out loud. The word "opera" itself is Italian.


Actually, I think it's Latin -- the plural of opus. Of course, Rome is in Italy . . .


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Celloman said:


> The Italians invented the thing, for crying out loud. The word "opera" itself is Italian.


They call it opera, we call it _Gesamtkunstwerk_.


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## starlightexp (Sep 3, 2013)

For me I really don't mind any of the major opera languages, it all comes down to how the composer chose to use it. While Italian is great for the soaring arias we love and adore sometimes the recitative can get bogged down for my taste. Most of the Germanic languages are harsher to listen to in comparison to French or Italian but I wound't have The Magic Flute in any other. Mozart German is softer and more lyric then Wagner German. I know this is going to make me loose some 'street cred but I love English operas, in fact when first learning an opera I seek out an English recording if I can. I come to it in a reverse way where I first learn what the songs are saying then once I know the bulk of the libretto I can move onto just sitting and enjoying the music and lyric in it's original language. I also have 40+ recordings of the musical of HAIR and love hearing it sung in different languages so I don't look at is as a travesty of art but a way to help me gain a deeper understanding of the greater meaning of the work underneath the melody .


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## Lucrezia (Nov 21, 2013)

For me Italian is definitely number one. Then go Russian and French, which, however, can both be tricky as bad accents spoil all the pleasure. German is a bit harsh though I love to hear it being spoken.
English, however I adore it, is not an opera language for me. Neither is Spanish but, to be honest, I don't like it very much in general.


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## messadivoce (Apr 18, 2014)

I love the Swedish language sung. Russian is a nice language too. Of course Italian and French are great too.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Like -- Italian, French and German.
Dislike -- the rest. especially Russian.


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## Donata (Dec 28, 2013)

Italian, French, and German. When I was just getting into opera, I thought German was too harsh a language for romantic arias. That it was better suited for the more dramatic works of Wagner. Well, I have obviously been proven wrong!


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## Maritta (Apr 18, 2014)

As a Finn I not not always understand what vocalists sing in Finnish operas. Therefore I like Italian, French, German and Russian singing. Also I think that the Italian language in easy to study and pronounce if you are a Finnish singer, but the so popular foreign language English sounds not so good in operas, but is suitable for the communication and brilliand for the literature.


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## Resurrexit (Apr 1, 2014)

French and Italian are so nice for singing, we all know this!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

German and Italian are my favourite languages to listen to opera in. These languages sounds like they are made for opera. I know its the other way.
The languages I have difficulties with are French and Czech. French sounds like they are singing through the nose. Czech sounds like they are singing backwards.


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## Cantabile (May 24, 2014)

When the original language is translated into English, I dislike it intensely ( unless the original language IS English). The composer is setting a particular libretto in a particular language, matching musical phrases to those words and sentences, placing certain words and their vowels at high or low points, perhaps playing with rhythms of syllables and the percussive sounds of consonants, or musically painting the nuances of vernacular meaning. Things get lost in translation.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

There was a poll on this not too long ago. But my favorite sung language is German (I only know English). Don't know that I have a least favorite.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

My 'least favourite' language is probably German, because I don't know it, and since I do know Latin & French, the Romance languages tend to sound more graceful to my ear. I totally see why Cantabile, an experienced singer, dislikes English, and I know she's absolutely right on artistic grounds. But I have to admit that recent experiences seeing English Touring Opera perform Agrippina & The Magic Flute have won me over. It was just so nice to understand what was going on.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

Oberon said:


> Not that it should mean anything, though. The first modern novel was Spanish and I doubt if the country be now regarded as the epicentre of the genre.
> 
> This said, Italian is by far one of my favoured operatic tongues. That and German, which possesses such a spiritual quality. I mean- Schubert's Lieder ! I tend to feel that a stress-count language works much better for song, though English, one of my favourite idioms on paper, has always put me off when sung. French I can't stand- the only French opera I can listen to is Carmen.


I've been recently listening to a recording of "Ariane consolee par Bacchus" by Couperin. Stephane Degout is an excellent baritone and he made me mostly abandon my controversial feelings on singing in French language, I thought I began to love it, but in the last aria I became a little bit annoyed by the repeating of nasal vowels.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

German is my favorite with Russian a close second. French is way down on the list.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Italian is lonely at the top, followed by French, German.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

German is definitely my favorite. Its such an expressive language to sing. French is least favorite. I don't like the nasals


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Italian
French
Russian
Czech
English
German


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Favorite: Italian

Lukewarm: German

Awful: English


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I don't have general language preferences, only that concerning specific operas, for example, I prefer Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice in Italian, and not French


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Marinera said:


> I don't have general language preferences, only that concerning specific operas, for example, I prefer Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice in Italian, and not French


I have the same with _Alceste_, much more "likeable" then French.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

Marinera said:


> I don't have general language preferences, only that concerning specific operas, for example, I prefer Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice in Italian, and not French


Berlioz criticized the translation a lot, btw.


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