# Bach's Teaching Methods



## Minona (Mar 25, 2013)

Hello.

I read today that J.S Bach taught his students first, to fill out (on paper) figured bass exercises he himself had devised or selected, then eventually write a bass of their own.

I'm a little confused about this. I can understand that the pupil learns to space chords correctly from doing a pre-figured bass, getting all the parts to flow, etc... but otherwise, isn't a bass line that has been figured, essentially, already 'composed'? 

I mean, how do you actually learn what chords to use for your own bass or compositions by doing that and not counterpoint?

This brings me to my second question: Why did such a master contrapuntalist reject the teaching of species counterpoint according to Fux? It seems such an efficient method of teaching counterpoint skills (i.e. covering every conceivable rhythmic variation). Did he expect pupils just to study his keyboard works and learn from them? Did he perhaps not like the idea of using another teacher's idea or material for teaching? 

We know Mozart, Haydn, Cherubini (especially) and Beethoven all revered and taught Fux's method, so it really puzzles me. Also, J.C Bach, though taught by his father, was still keen to learn Fux counterpoint from Padre Martini. So... it's even more strange. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Minona


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Minona said:


> Hello.
> 
> I read today that J.S Bach taught his students first, to fill out (on paper) figured bass exercises he himself had devised or selected, then eventually write a bass of their own.
> 
> I'm a little confused about this. I can understand that the pupil learns to space chords correctly from doing a pre-figured bass, getting all the parts to flow, etc... but otherwise, isn't a bass line that has been figured, essentially, already 'composed'?


It teaches voice-leading, ensures absolute familiarity with the notation, and indeed how to get a good melody out of the harmonic progression, but yes, it has effectively already been composed.



Minona said:


> I mean, how do you actually learn what chords to use for your own bass or compositions by doing that and not counterpoint?


Well, first of all he teaches what to do with the chords, then, once the student is entirely familiar with the 'technical' aspect, if you like, he then, as you say, encourages them to write a bass of their own. It means he has removed one complex creative aspect of the process first (i.e., the writing of the bass) so they could learn voice-leading etc. first.



Minona said:


> This brings me to my second question: Why did such a master contrapuntalist reject the teaching of species counterpoint according to Fux? It seems such an efficient method of teaching counterpoint skills (i.e. covering every conceivable rhythmic variation). Did he expect pupils just to study his keyboard works and learn from them? Did he perhaps not like the idea of using another teacher's idea or material for teaching?


It is known that Bach admired Fux's text, which I suppose makes the answer even less obvious... One thought is that Fux's text only came out in 1725, at which point he was 40, and maybe stuck in his ways? Fux starts his text out, if my memory serves me correctly, saying that his text was perhaps mainly aimed at students who had no teacher. Perhaps, since Bach was a teacher, decided to teach in the way he wanted to? It is an interesting problem.



Minona said:


> We know Mozart, Haydn, Cherubini (especially) and Beethoven all revered and taught Fux's method, so it really puzzles me. Also, J.C Bach, though taught by his father, was still keen to learn Fux counterpoint from Padre Martini. So... it's even more strange. Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Minona


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## Minona (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks. I know that Bach (J.S and CPE) rejected Rameau's harmony method which is now the basis of modern harmony teaching (e.g Walter Piston), and that Mozart, Haydn, Cherubini, Beethoven never used the method either. 

But I wasn't sure how figured bass harmonies get written in the first place (without counterpoint lessons) and according to CPE Bach, his father followed more of a figured bass teaching practice. I mean, I get how counterpoints actually create music, but I'm not too sure how figured bass is applied in composition even though figured bass enables the realisation of counterpoints. 

Maybe I need to study it to find out.


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## Minona (Mar 25, 2013)

I just found one answer to the counterpoint question: 

"A letter from Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach to J.N. Forkel of January 19, 1775 attests to J.S. Bach's preference for actual music in the teaching of composition as against 'the dry species of counterpoint that are given in Fux and others', but the same letter places Fux at the head of those (contemporary) composers whom J.S. Bach most admired: J.J. Fux, Antonio Caldara, George Frideric Handel, Reinhard Keiser, Johann Adolf Hasse, Johann Gottlieb Graun, Jan Dismas Zelenka (a pupil of J.J. Fux's), and Franz Benda."


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Minona said:


> Did he expect pupils just to study his keyboard works and learn from them?


Yup. Read the intro to the 2 and 3 part inventions:










(Straightforward Instruction, in which amateurs of the keyboard, and especially the eager ones, are shown a clear way not only (1) of learning to play cleanly in two voices, but also, after further progress, (2) of dealing correctly and satisfactorily with three obbligato parts; at the same time not only getting good inventiones, but developing the same satisfactorily, and above all arriving at a cantabile manner in playing, all the while acquiring a strong foretaste of composition. )

This was extended in WTC book 1:










The Well-Tempered Clavier, 
or 
Preludes and Fugues 
through all the tones and semitones 
both as regards the tertia major or Ut Re Mi 
and as concerns the tertia minor or Re Mi Fa. 
For the Use and Profit of the Musical Youth Desirous of Learning 
as well as for the Pastime of those Already Skilled in this Study 
drawn up and written by Johann Sebastian Bach.


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