# Round Two: Sleepwalking Scene. Ludwig, Nilsson



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Last two before the juggernaut that is Callas.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Ludwig’s take is idiosyncratic- odd speaking of the first two words, weird stresses on others, a refusal to go into her chest register, strange cutting off of last syllables. I wouldn’t count it as a success - she got through it, but without the _pianissimo _high D. Perhaps a first attempt as a soprano.

Nilsson is more successful, and she has some good ideas, but some intonation problems. At time she uses _la voce bianca _which helps give an eerie feeling to some of the words, but she also skips some words at difficult transitions in favor of a vowel. She ends with an eerie high D, a soft scream.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Ludwig’s take is idiosyncratic- odd speaking f the first two words, weird stresses on others, a refusal to go into her chest register, strange cutting off of last syllables. I wouldn’t count it as a success - she got through it, but without the _pianissimo _high D. Perhaps a first attempt as a soprano.
> 
> Nilsson is more successful, and she has some good ideas, but some intonation problems. At time she uses _la voce bianca _which helps give an eerie feeling to some of the words, but she also skips some words at difficult transitions in favor of a vowel. She ends with an eerie high D, a soft scream.


If you didn't have Callas, Nilsson would be very effective in this scene. This is better than some of her other Verdi roles, though she did well as Aida here in our contest. She even has the needed power on the low passages. Also remember that her voice is darker in person they say.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Every singer of Lady Macbeth has to strike a balance between musicality and histrionics in a role that demands plenty of the latter but risks tipping over into caricature. For my taste Ludwig engages in too much acting and not enough pure singing. I find as well that her voice is not consistently flattered by the tessitura; she sensibly (or of necessity) takes the lower option at the end. An interpretation that may have worked well in the theater comes across less effectively for pure listening.

I gather that this was one of Nilsson's favorite Italian roles, and it shows in her well-thought-out and executed performance of this scene. She is much more successful than Ludwig at drawing out Verdi's long, legato lines, partly because she's less intent on acting out every word and partly because she's more comfortable with the tessitura. I think the slow tempo also helps her create a sense of breadth in the phrasing. Though the suitability of her voice to this repertoire will always be a matter of taste, Lady M is an extraordinary role where unusual voices might find a home. I'm happy to give this match to her.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> If you didn't have Callas, Nilsson would be very effective in this scene. This is better than some of her other Verdi roles, though she did well as Aida here in our contest. She even has the needed power on the low passages. Also remember that her voice is darker in person they say.


The color of the voice is so bright at the top that it overshadows the rest of it or even the memory of the voice. For instance, I can’t remember how she sounds in the _todesverkündigung _scene.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> The color of the voice is so bright at the top that it overshadows the rest of it or even the memory of the voice. For instance, I can’t remember how she sounds in the _todesverkündigung _scene.


It starts at 3 min mark. She is not Flagstad but she is always audible 



At the 30 sec mark she sounds just fine in Der Manner Sippe 



. She always had some brightness down low but she could be heard easily.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It starts at 3 min mark. She is not Flagstad but she is always audible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there any passage in opera with such prolonged low writing for soprano and tenor? I can't think of one.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Is there any passage in opera with such prolonged low writing for soprano and tenor? I can't think of one.


I think it's only rival might be the Norma Pollione duet in the last act, but this is lower. Flagstad did it best in her Wagner lesson video!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Though not with a soprano, the Amneris-Radames duet in *Aida *exploits the tenor and mezzo lower registers (as well as their higher ones) in their confrontation. I particularly like this one


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^ Since I first heard _Aida_ at around age 15 that's been one of my favorite parts. Corelli and Cossotto sing the bloody heck out of it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Flagstad did it best in her Wagner lesson video!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A voice in fifty million. It's like having her in the room with you, or like sitting front row center at a recital - or like being Siegmund and hearing your death foretold. If I were him I'd leave Sieglinde to the vultures and go to Walhall where I could listen to Flagstad forever.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

They are both wonderful but Ludwig didn't do the high note and Nilsson's was beautiful -- however, I happen to prefer the richer, earthier sound of Ludwig so I am going with her. (back in my little corner alone again???)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Ludwig video above is not available here in the UK, so I found another. I don't know if it's the same performance.





Anyway, I find myself disagreeing with most of my fellow forum members here. I wouldn't say Ludwig was particularly suited to the role and she has to take a lower option at the end, but I thought her reading more natural than Nilsson's, despite occasionally fussing with the vocal line.

Both performances, I would suggest, have been influenced by Callas's studio recording, which caused such a furore when it was issued in 1959 and at times Nilsson sounds as if she is literally copying Callas, but whereas Callas's effects sound totally natural, Nilsson's sound applied.

I'm voting for Ludwig, but I'm not convinced by either.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> A voice in fifty million. It's like having her in the room with you, or like sitting front row center at a recital - or like being Siegmund and hearing your death foretold. If I were him I'd leave Sieglinde to the vultures and go to Walhall where I could listen to Flagstad forever.


But there would be zero of sex, just sumptuous advertisement.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The Ludwig video I found is not available here in the UK, so I found another. I don't know if it's the same performance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your initiative. Just like videos only on Youtube Premium I can't tell and picking an alternate version by an artist available in your region is the route to go I say. Just cue us in on what you did like you did.
Ludwig is in general a very strong actress and I can't help but feel her interpretation is likely stronger when one can see it.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The Ludwig video above is not available here in the UK, so I found another. I don't know if it's the same performance.


They are one and the same - The disc below contains only excerpts - There is a 2cd set of the complete recording on the Opera d'Oro label but while the individual selections are available on YouTube, there isn't a one page link which contains all of them in order.

Sherrill Milnes (Macbeth), Christa Ludwig (Lady Macbeth), Carlo Cossutta (Macduff), Karl Ridderbusch (Banco), Ewald Aichberger (Malcolm), Gildis Flossmann (Dama), Ljubomir Pantscheff (Medico)

Wiener Staatsoper, Karl Bohm














https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lPWrV9H1ToLS-IpdTT6BN0XMPKt-fwBXU


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Birgit Nilsson (soprano), Giuseppe Morresi (bass), Giuseppe Taddei (baritone), Piero de Palma (tenor), Bruno Prevedi (tenor), Silvio Maionica (bass), Dora Carral (soprano), Virgilio Carbonari (bass), Guido Mancusi (boy soprano), Giovanni Foiani (bass), Laura Carboni (soprano), Mario Canali (baritone)
Coro dell'Accademia Nazionale Di Santa Cecilia, Orchestra dell'Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia
Thomas Schippers
Recorded: 1964-06-22
Recording Venue: Accademia di Santa Cecilia, Rome

The above is an alternative Nilsson recording - 1964 with Schippers conducting - in which the word "eccentric" is used in almost every review that I've read.

The aria in the contest is a fan recording of this 1962 release with Birgit Nilsson · Orchestra of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden · Argeo Quadri -


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've heard both of these in the past and I fully expect to vote for the Ludwig. However, it's worth hearing and comparing them to see if that turns out to be the case.

I'm listening to Nilsson first as the Ludwig isn't available. This is impressive and the sound of her voice is suitably haunting as the Lady. However, there is very little in the way of interpretation and word painting (Callas has spoiled us).

Ludwig gives me just what I want here. Is it too expressionistic? Well Verdi wrote a very experimental scene based on word painting and Ludwig does it justice.

Ludwig wins easily.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've heard both of these in the past and I fully expect to vote for the Ludwig. However, it's worth hearing and comparing them to see if that turns out to be the case.
> 
> I'm listening to Nilsson first as the Ludwig isn't available. This is impressive and the sound of her voice is suitably haunting as the Lady. However, there is very little in the way of interpretation and word painting (Callas has spoiled us).
> 
> ...


Especially later in her career Nilsson was a very very effective physical actress but aside from soft to loud dynamics she is not so much of a vocal actress like Callas was. In a role like Elektra live she could be devastating with incredible movements and expressions.. Does this sound reasonable? Callas skill shows up more in recordings.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I don't know this aria with Callas, the expectations do not hinder me, and I am completely happy with Christa Ludwig, she has my vote.
Birgit Nilson sings beautifully, but I don't think she orchestrated several murders.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Nilsson. Hearing that Wagner-sized voice pull off that fil di voce is just....I have to remind myself every time it's actually her, because it sounds like it should come from a soprano with a voice 1/4 higher. She floats high notes better than even Caballe and sounds like a friggin fairy princess.

In the context of the opera, this is more than just a party trick. We can think of the Sleepwalking Scene as a kind of mad scene. It's common Cluster B individuals in general to have delusions about their attractiveness, and in the case of women, this often takes the form of deluding themselves that they're still young, virginal ingenues.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Nilsson. Hearing that Wagner-sized voice pull off that fil di voce is just....I have to remind myself every time it's actually her, because it sounds like it should come from a soprano with a voice 1/4 higher. She floats high notes better than even Caballe and sounds like a friggin fairy princess.
> 
> In the context of the opera, this is more than just a party trick. We can think of the Sleepwalking Scene as a kind of mad scene. It's common Cluster B individuals in general to have delusions about their attractiveness, and in the case of women, this often takes the form of deluding themselves that they're still young, virginal ingenues.


I am glad someone acknowledges how remarkable it is that probably the biggest soprano voice of her era could also be so spectacular at piano singing. She is in my opinion in the same league as Caballe but doesn't use it without discretion like Caballe does.


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