# poetry in music



## michael walsh (Sep 6, 2009)

A talented pianist friend says she would like to put some of my poetry to music. At first glance this is very appealing - it is also, for me at least, problematic. 
I instinctively know that poetry does morph into the most beautiful music. From Schiller's Ode to Joy to the evocative Red Rose Cafe examples abound. Donovan always rated himself first of all a poet who transcribed his words to music. What a gift!

So here I am, staring at a blank piece of paper with finished poems, wondering where the lady goes from here? How on earth do you turn this into music:

The Glass of Wine

When time and distance separate us,
Then you will find the spirit of our togetherness,
In a glass of wine.
Ma vourneen; Make it a long stemmed glass,
To remind you that even the minute apart is the longest one.

Fill it to its very brim to symbolize the fullness that you bring to my heart;
Sip it gently, and often, that you may know that each slight touch or glance is a kiss from you.
And most of all; let its spirit warm you as yours has warmed me.

Raise the glass and salute both the past and the future that link us;
But most of all, toast the emptiness that lies between,
Without which there could be no anticipation.
And if the spirit of the glass brings warmth, peace and joy to the inner you,
Then you will understand what you have brought to me.

Let the shimmer of the wine's sparkle on your lips,
Hint at desire;
The coolness of the chilled bottle the long ago.
The chuckle of its pour, the future.
But most of all may it, as it becomes part of you,
Remind you that you are a part of me.

(Ma Vourneen. Gaelic for My Darling)​


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

That's fantastic! I'm thinking of Bach's rapturous first cello suite meeting with Rameau and Debussy (of all people). That's just my two cents, though. It really makes me think of French music on a cello, maybe Haydn, Mozart, or you could go for a Scriabinesque approach (Scriabin was a perfect composer for poetry, as he well proved to us all).

Either that or you could take a more pianistic approach to it and try to follow in Rachmaninoff, Lyapunov, Scharwenka, Blumenfeld, or Stenhammar's footsteps.


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## Scott Good (Jun 8, 2009)

michael walsh said:


> How on earth do you turn this into music:
> 
> The Glass of Wine
> 
> ...


As I have undergone the process of setting poetry a number of times to music (about 9 works to date), here is my basic approach.

First, one must absorb the poem - know it intimately. I like to break it down into sections that could possibly correspond to musical sections. In your fine work, there are 4 distinct sections, marked not only by the poetry, but also the spacing. My tendency is to be slave to the poem, so, I would follow this structure (at least, that is my gut feeling now, but usually this whole process takes days, if not weeks!).

I would also mark sections of stress, and indeed try to find focal points, words, phrases etc that I would want to highlight within the structure of the poem.

The next decisions are a bit trickier. I am drawn to the idea that "you" and "me" and "wine" are intimately connected, and would want this to be symbolized/represented in the tones and rhythms. I am feeling a work of medium fast tempo throughout, so the entire idea is connected under one long phrase, but the modes would change slightly, trans-versing between loneliness, and togetherness - I would establish the modes - perhaps something like the "you" and "me" themes alone are lonely (perhaps dorian), whereas when combined, would imply a new mode of togetherness. (perhaps a variation on mixolydian)

Then, by applying ideas of form and structure with ideas of modes and rhythms, I would go through and do a quick mock up of the rhythm of the words. Do the words fit into a regular meter, or will it have variety. This is one of the most fun and challenging parts of setting text - the rhythm of the singing of the words.

Of course, each stage affects the other, so during the process, I often go back and change some of my earlier notions.

Of course, this is a quick off answer! Any serious setting would have to have days of contemplation before any note is put to paper. The most difficult trick is to satisfy the emotion of the poetry, but also create a piece of music with it's own grammar and self fulfilling structure.

Or, I should say, this is what is important to me.


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## michael walsh (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks, both of you. As you surmise it isn't as easy as it first appears. I have been giving it much thought. All I can come up with is creating the music to fit the mood of the poet when composing it and the emotions he would wish to evoke. 

To this end a piano or guitar though admittedly I haven't given much thought to the possibility of the potential of other instruments as you imaginatively have. 

In simplistic terms a quick light melody for a polka, something far more sombre for a funeral. 

Richard Strauss, it is claimed, said he could compose music in such a way as to make the listener not only aware that it created the image of a woman but that she was also a redhead! hmmmm. I would love to put words to some music; especially Recuerdos de las Alhambra. 

The question certainly gave rise to much thought. I now have a new regard for librettists; a special breed that stands alone. Which comes first? The libretto or the music?


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## Cortision (Aug 4, 2009)

The relationship between music and poetry is interesting to ponder. I sometimes naively think of poetry as being like music set to words. Perhaps writing music to fit a poem is like trying to find the music that could have inspired the poem - that evokes the same spirit and emotions. Poetry has been defined as 'memorable speech', and you could argue that music is memorable sound. Both poetry and music are, to my way of thinking, at the pinnacle of all the arts - thus for a sculptor to be called a poet is a compliment, and a novelist can aspire to writing musical prose.

One song I admire, because it seems to me to be a wonderful fusion of music and poetry, is Paul McCartney's 'Blackbird'. And of course I love Beethoven's 9th, but because it is sung in German which I don't understand, I didn't know what the words meant until I bought a CD that had an English translation, and I thought it was a wonderful poem. Many people think Beethoven overdid the finale of this Symphony, but being a simple kind of person, I think it is a masterpiece. Another interesting example is Vaughan William's Sea Symphony, which sets to music some poems by Walt Whitman. In the last movement, as sailors set of to explore the vast ocean, the music slowly fades away like a ship slowly disappearing over the horizon. It makes for a wonderful ending to the Symphony.

Both composers and poets have my great admiration.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

My favourite is Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings! Might be a good one to listen to.

My advice would be not to *think* too much about expressing the words... i.e. don't make rules like "all words like 'high' must be sung on at a high pitch".
Just feel the poem and let your subconscious do the work.

Ok, I can't really express what I'm trying to say (not a poet) but I'm getting the jist across.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Ignis Fatuus said:


> My favourite is Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings! Might be a good one to listen to.
> 
> My advice would be not to *think* too much about expressing the words... i.e. don't make rules like "all words like 'high' must be sung on at a high pitch".
> Just feel the poem and let your subconscious do the work.
> ...


You mean work on theme primarily rather than being picturesque and accurate to the words of the poem?


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

Lukecash12 said:


> You mean work on theme primarily rather than being picturesque and accurate to the words of the poem?


I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't say that being picturesque and accurate to the words (tone-painting specifically) is not necessarily unartistic - I just think it can often descend into an intellectual excerise to find musical puns.

I used to think it was jedi nonsense when people said things like: "don't 'think' about composing, just 'feel' it". But I think I understand what they mean now, a little.

If you know a bit about the insides of a computer, it's a good analogy for how I see the brain. In a computer you have the CPU which does most of the work, but you also have 'dedicated' components that have very simple tasks but can do them very quickly, like the Graphics Processing Unit (graphics card). The GPU can complete picture-related tasks very quickly, but it can't do anything else.

It's the similar in the brain - though nowhere near as simple. Simplisticly, we could say there are 'dedicated' parts of the brain that can only do specific tasks like finding patterns in visual and audio input. However, if that's all that happened, we would not be aware/conscious of these patterns. The dedicated areas send their results to the cerbral cortex (the CPU equivalent), the part of the brain where consciousness is - and then we are aware if the patterens.

However, you can't be conscious of everything (the cerebral cortex has limitations of course). For example, I'm not at all pitch perfect (i.e. if you play a note, I can't tell you what pitch it is). However, if I'm listening to a piece of music, and think "What key is this in?", but not totally consciously, and I kind of fumble my hand over the piano keys to find the right one, I very often get exactly the right note. I think this is because we have a dedicate part of the brain which can measure frequency, but the conscious part of the brain doesn't always listen to it (probably for good reasons), but you can kind of cheat and bypass the cerbral cortex a little and make use of it.

Right, now I should apologise to Michael for going right off topic again. But yes, my advice: don't think about how to set the words, just play and let it happen. I know that probably doesn't help much.


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## Scott Good (Jun 8, 2009)

Ignis Fatuus said:


> I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't say that being picturesque and accurate to the words (tone-painting specifically) is not necessarily unartistic - I just think it can often descend into an intellectual excerise to find musical puns.


Examples?



Ignis Fatuus said:


> I used to think it was jedi nonsense when people said things like: "don't 'think' about composing, just 'feel' it". But I think I understand what they mean now, a little.


Can you name a composer who you admire that "didn't think" about the music they were creating? This is pop music "technique", and nothing wrong with that. But, the classical tradition is formed on top of people "thinking" about what they do.

So, ya, if you want to write a country crooning song, or a pop ballade, don't think. But, something for soprano and orchestra, It might be wise to spend some time thinking about the music.


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## Ignis Fatuus (Nov 25, 2008)

Scott Good said:


> Examples?


Oh, I have plenty of my own lutheran hymns (learning exercises) I could send you! Incidental music for Tom and Jerry cartoons would be the extreme example. Every visual action translated into the language of the orchestra.



> Can you name a composer who you admire that "didn't think" about the music they were creating?


Well, the work I'm listening to write now. The Symphony of Psalms of by Stravinsky. He claims not to have consciously chosen to use church modes. But if you analyse it, you find a bit of dorian here, a bit of phygian there (it's a setting of a religious text by the way). This is a perfect example of what I mean. He didn't just sit down and think: "right, what musical techniques can I employ to imply a religous work"... if you believe his own comments on the work, much of it was unconscious. Infact, if you TEACH me how to write anything like Stravinsky I would be most grateful.



> This is pop music "technique", and nothing wrong with that. But, the classical tradition is formed on top of people "thinking" about what they do.


Nonesense. Classical musicians spend many years learning functional harmony, but when you come to actually compose, if you just employ one academic technique after another you will get a thoroughly mediocre work. A great composer is not merely well-read... he has something very special, beyond his years of study.



> So, ya, if you want to write a country crooning song, or a pop ballade, don't think. But, something for soprano and orchestra, It might be wise to spend some time thinking about the music.


I think we are defining "think" in different ways. Obviously composition requires a certain amount of cerbral activity. But real, non-trivial composition is free, with your knowledge-base working the background making sure don't make stupid mistakes.

I also think you are being unfairly harsh on pop music. It's touch to draw the line between a pop song and Lied (for example). And that line is often based on extra-musical variables.

EDIT: I should just clarify. My point was not "tone-painting = bad". My point was "being overly preoccupied with conscious techniques such as tone-painting = bad".


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