# Acid folk



## Guest (Dec 31, 2017)

Here is a thread for the appreciation of Acid Folk. 

Acid folk came out of the psychedelic music of the sixties. Usually performed with acoustic instruments, it can be quite trippy, weird and atmospheric to a greater or lesser extent. Mostly, it wasn't very successful commercially, and many artists and groups released just an album or two. Indeed, from the Seventies until the start of this century it was pretty obscure and underground. The twenty first century has led to the revival of interest in original artists as well as new ones coming on the scene.

Some examples from back in the day are Vashti Bunyan, The Incredible String Band, The Tree People, Linda Perhacs, Nick Drake and Tim Buckley whilst in the past few years there is Joanna Newsom and Davendra Banhart. There are many more of course, and it is quite fun to listen to this music by these and other artists as there is a great deal of fine musicianship, interesting artist back-stories and some quite different and original sounds.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Does Espers count?

I have their second album.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I like it, I listened to the bands you listed and for example Linda Perhacs - Parallelograms is such an exuisite album


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2017)

Dr Johnson said:


> Does Espers count?
> 
> I have their second album.


Absolutely, I believe they were central to the revival of the genre.

Do you mean _The Weed Tree_? I've not heard that one, but I do like Espers II. The analogue recording sounds crystal clear.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> Absolutely, I believe they were central to the revival of the genre.
> 
> Do you mean _The Weed Tree_? I've not heard that one, but I do like Espers II. The analogue recording sounds crystal clear.


I meant Espers II.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2017)

Jacck said:


> I like it, I listened to the bands you listed and for example Linda Perhacs - Parallelograms is such an exuisite album


It certainly is! Surprising to hear that she made that sound without using drugs.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I believe she was a dental nurse before the muse beckoned.

Perhaps she did have access to something.


----------



## Guest (Jan 1, 2018)

In the 80s and 90s folk was largely sneered at in the UK (unless it was Irish) but this was seemingly not the case overseas where some good music was produced utilising the folk traditions of the local cultures.

Sedmina's Il Dejanje is a Slovenian album with strong performances and a slightly unusual combination of instruments from 1982.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

some psychedelic folk from Japan


----------



## Guest (Jan 1, 2018)

Jacck said:


> some psychedelic folk from Japan


I like the 'On the love beach' album and also Ghost's eponymous album from the same period in Tokyo.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I don't know if this is acid folk or not, but sounds like it
Beth Gibbons & Rustin Man - Out Of Season


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I think this was the book (leant to me by a friend) in which I read that Linda Perhacs was a dental nurse:


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

dental nurse? then she must have had access to ketamine :lol: Ketamine is sometimes used a research alternative to LSD because it is much less stricly controlled.


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2018)

Jacck said:


> I don't know if this is acid folk or not, but sounds like it
> Beth Gibbons & Rustin Man - Out Of Season


Yes it does. There seems to be quite a few different influences in that record. Good singer too.

Improvisation is often a feature of this genre. It is in this 1979 record by Basque group Haizea (Wind). There are also nice folk songs, chanting, bells, water, flute and more! The album is called Hontz Gaua (Night Owl).


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2018)

Jacck said:


> dental nurse? then she must have had access to ketamine :lol: Ketamine is sometimes used a research alternative to LSD because it is much less stricly controlled.


Perhacs said that she saw and felt sound as multi-dimensional phenomena which represent energy frequencies that are common in our universe. We are too low in our vibration to see and hear them.

Is it possible to talk like that if you are not stoned?

:lol:


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2018)

There can't be any doubt that the 1968 album 'The Moray Eels eat the Holy Modal Rounders' was not created without copious amounts of amphetamine.

'Bird Song' from the album was used in Dennis Hopper's classic 'Easy Rider'.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

This playlist has early examples, although on the better trip side of things.






Not sure if playlists actually link, you might have to click the youtube button in the TC site video window to have it open in another tab, or highlight the above and right click to go to it.





Private Label Christian Xian Psychedelia and Folk


----------



## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

CocoRosie, two sisters making weird and beautiful music. Sometimes described as "freak folk" , don't know if this fits into the OP's definition, but highly recommended all the same.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CocoRosie , For discography and additional info


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Nice thread, Tulse! All good music has folk roots somehow and somewhere and the acid variant makes it even more interesting. Thanks for letting me in on these performers.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2018)

regenmusic said:


> This playlist has early examples, although on the better trip side of things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks regenmusic. I found the playlist by putting 'Private Label Christian Xian Psychedelia and Folk ' into the youtube search bar.

Christian and Taoist acid folk is new to me. I'm checking some of these out right now.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm surprised John Martyn hasn't been mentioned yet.

I'm not sure where he stands officially in the canon but I'd have thought he would be considered an important influence.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Tulse said:


> Thanks regenmusic. I found the playlist by putting 'Private Label Christian Xian Psychedelia and Folk ' into the youtube search bar.
> 
> Christian and Taoist acid folk is new to me. I'm checking some of these out right now.


The Xian term is a Chinese word but here it's not related to Taoism it's just like Xmas, a short form of Christian. You can find things on ebay too by searching on Xian Psych. Many of these albums go for over $500, some even over $1000!


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2018)

Jos said:


> CocoRosie, two sisters making weird and beautiful music. Sometimes described as "freak folk" , don't know if this fits into the OP's definition, but highly recommended all the same.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CocoRosie , For discography and additional info


Freak folk was a term generated in the US media in the early 2000s to describe the resurgence of psychedelic folk, so yes, artists labelled in this way are at the heart of this genre in contemporary times. Nothing could be more weird than the sister's upbringing. I've just played their debut 'La maison de mon rêve' and like it a lot. their experimenting with different vocal styles and various unusual sounds, and the roughness of the recording make for an endearingly fragile music.

There is also a seeming vulnerability in this 1979 album from Eugene, Oregon based The Tree People.


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> I'm surprised John Martyn hasn't been mentioned yet.
> 
> I'm not sure where he stands officially in the canon but I'd have thought he would be considered an important influence.


Yes. absolutely, especially with his Echoplex.

I've always wondered what went on in John Martyn's head. This album cover above seems to provide some clues. 

Londoner Bill Fay made 'Time of the last persecution' in 1971 then disappeared until a growing cult status enabled him to record again in 2012.






Something of the desperation of Nick Drake in his voice, while his mystical lyrics suggest the end of the world.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> Yes. absolutely, especially with his Echoplex.
> 
> *I've always wondered what went on in John Martyn's head.* This album cover above seems to provide some clues.
> 
> .


:lol:

A lot of acid and dope, whatever else may have gone on.

Good documentary here:


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2018)

regenmusic said:


> The Xian term is a Chinese word but here it's not related to Taoism it's just like Xmas, a short form of Christian. You can find things on ebay too by searching on Xian Psych. Many of these albums go for over $500, some even over $1000!


Thanks for explaining that regenmusic, I was getting confused as to where the Chinese connection was as I went through the playlist!

Here is an album that mixes Christian and Hindu, some Krautfolk by Popul Vuh:






Mystical and becoming hypnotic as the music progresses.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2018)

Popul Vah (Florian Fricke mainly) were primarily known for their collaboration with German auteur Werner Herzog. Here are the opening and closing clips of Aguirre, Wrath of God. The intensity of both scenes requires this remarkable soundtrack:


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2018)

Still on Krautfolk and the eponymous album from Bröselmaschine released in 1971.






Lots of influences here, British folk, Indian ragas & more. most of the singing is in English.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

A very-much abused selling term which spawned "wyrdfolk" movement in late 80s/90s.

In fact there are only a handful of true SEVENTIES "acidfolk" lps. You can have the odd acidfolk track on an otherwise straightforward lp, but full-blown acidfolk lps are rare indeed.

Comus "First Utterance" is one.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Listened to this one last night. A fantastic album, imo. Brilliant songs, arrangements, and production. Just a great sounding record!










Roy Harper-The Dream Scociety


----------



## Guest (Jan 14, 2018)

The Deacon said:


> A very-much abused selling term which spawned "wyrdfolk" movement in late 80s/90s.
> 
> In fact there are only a handful of true SEVENTIES "acidfolk" lps. You can have the odd acidfolk track on an otherwise straightforward lp, but full-blown acidfolk lps are rare indeed.
> 
> Comus "First Utterance" is one.


I'm playing First Utterance just now. It is quite a ride. Drip Drip.

What are the other albums from the Seventies which are full-blown acid folk?


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

That would be telling.:devil:


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

I would think the term "acidfolk" is more a Euro/Brit concoction. In US it is more known as downer folk.

Good example would be Bill Bixby "Ode To Quetzacoatl".


You mention Tree People but a very good wyrd one is US group Trees. (I forget the exact title. very mystical, spooky. Do not confuse with that "Delawny" folk lp by the UK Trees.))


Also if your into downer ,Bill Fay, I would check out Armando Piazza "Suan" lp.

If you dont know it already, try Jan Dukes de Grey "Rats & Mice in the Loft".



Boujeiwyn de Groot "Nacht de Onjii" side two, sidelong track is a wyrd-spooky one.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> I'm playing First Utterance just now. It is quite a ride. Drip Drip.
> 
> What are the other albums from the Seventies which are full-blown acid folk?


The first gig I ever went to was Mungo Jerry.

They were supported by Comus!

Little did I think that decades later I would own First Utterance.

(Should have said that I was 12 years old and completely bemused by Comus)


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Now there was a match for you.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Same record label (Dawn).


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Robert Hinchliffe [UK] - a_4. Words Upon An Ocean


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

The Deacon said:


> Boujeiwyn de Groot "Nacht de Onjii" side two, sidelong track is a wyrd-spooky one.


Boujeiwyn de Groot? Who would that be, mister wiseguy? Could you by any circumstance mean Boudewijn de Groot's album 'Nacht en Ontij'?


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2018)

Casebearer said:


> Boujeiwyn de Groot? Who would that be, mister wiseguy? Could you by any circumstance mean Boudewijn de Groot's album 'Nacht en Ontij'?


You must be so honoured to have the work of a Dutch singer as one of only a handful of genuine acid folk albums according to new member The Deacon. Unfortunately included in this short list is an electronic pop group from the eighties and an actor who played 'The Incredible Hulk' but did not release any records. 

More seriously, I enjoyed the 'Nacht en Ontij' album. How does it translate, 'Night of Evil'?

Are there any more artists from the Netherlands who broadly fit into the psychedelic folk category?


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

No,there are not.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Casebearer said:


> Boujeiwyn de Groot? Who would that be, mister wiseguy? Could you by any circumstance mean Boudewijn de Groot's album 'Nacht en Ontij'?


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

You are talking to yourself.

I don't care about ignorance in music and misspellings the way you seem to do. I'm not a member of any church. Just serving you with the correct spelling as I know you care.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Tulse said:


> You must be so honoured to have the work of a Dutch singer as one of only a handful of genuine acid folk albums according to new member The Deacon.
> 
> More seriously, I enjoyed the 'Nacht en Ontij' album. How does it translate, 'Night of Evil'?
> 
> Are there any more artists from the Netherlands who broadly fit into the psychedelic folk category?


I could be honoured but as I'm not that chauvinistic it's a relative joy. I must admit however that The Deacon is quite knowledgeable in several areas of music. Nobody's perfect. All I object to is his or her style.

Ontij is an old Dutch word that isn't used by itself anymore, only in the combination 'Nacht en Ontij', which means 'at a very late hour'.

Ontij by itself means something like that part of the 'etmaal' (an old word we use to describe the 24 hour period of day and night, there is no equivalent in English as far as I know) in which it is dark and people should fear trouble. So Nacht and Ontij both refer to the same period of an 'etmaal' but Nacht is objective and Ontij is subjective and has a connotation of fear. Maybe ontij can be translated literally into untime but I'm not sure about that.

I Wouldn't know about any other Dutch acid folk but I'm no expert on that.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Casebearer said:


> I'm not a member of any church.


This is a mortal sin.

You belong to the Church of PROG.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> The first gig I ever went to was Mungo Jerry.
> 
> They were supported by Comus!
> 
> ...


Mutton chops.

That's quite a double act. I'm envious, by the time I got to go to concerts my bands were either past their best or had split.

Sonja Kristina, ex-Hair, Curved Air lead singer & Stewart Copeland's husband, resuscitated the genre in 1991 with 'Songs from the Acid folk'.










Available on Spotify.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Weird coincidence! The second band I saw live was Curved Air! 1972, Bristol, Colston Hall.

No acid folk from Sonja in them days. 

Above album looks interesting.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> Weird coincidence! The second band I saw live was Curved Air! 1972, Bristol, Colston Hall.
> 
> No acid folk from Sonja in them days.
> 
> Above album looks interesting.


Spooky, & I'm doubly envious now!

Yes, its not revolutionary but I liked it, decent singer songwriting & acoustic band. Includes 'Melinda (more or less).'

How did you get to go to these when so young (if you don't mind me asking)? I didn't get to anything more than a (hated) barn dance at that age.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> Spooky, & I'm doubly envious now!
> 
> Yes, its not revolutionary but I liked it, decent singer songwriting & acoustic band. Includes 'Melinda (more or less).'
> 
> *How did you get to go to these when so young (if you don't mind me asking)? I didn't get to anything more than a (hated) barn dance at that age.*


Easy going parents (and long suffering ones too, they drove me and a mate to Mungo Jerry/Comus). I think a different chum's mother drove us to Curved Air. It was the 70s.


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I've just remembered I saw Tír na nÓg in a pub in Yeovil in 1974 (?). 

Do they count as acid folk?


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> I've just remembered I saw Tír na nÓg in a pub in Yeovil in 1974 (?).
> 
> Do they count as acid folk?


↑↑↑ great parents! Not just that, but you had great taste at that age. I was a teeny bopper at 12. Gary Glitter and the like.

I don't know them but apparently their three albums have a 'sprinkle of strangeness'. That's good enough for me.

Are they worth checking out?


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> ↑↑↑ great parents! Not just that, but you had great taste at that age. I was a teeny bopper at 12. Gary Glitter and the like.
> 
> I don't know them but apparently their three albums have a 'sprinkle of strangeness'. That's good enough for me.
> 
> *Are they worth checking out?*


I have to be honest, I can't remember much about their music. Perhaps that's answer enough! :lol:

(BTW, I was 16 in 1974).


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> I have to be honest, I can't remember much about their music. Perhaps that's answer enough! :lol:
> 
> (BTW, I was 16 in 1974).


Stand by! I'll report back.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Tír na nÓg are still extant, I believe. My brother liked them as I recall.


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

dogen said:


> Tír na nÓg are still extant, I believe. My brother liked them as I recall.


They have their own youtube channel...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCptggR2oSYcgU5tunBKAeIQ

I'm adding this clip of their cover of Joni Mitchell's "Woodstock" so that I can take a wholly gratuitous cheap shot at her for her well-deserved reputation as "Canada's Sourpuss" in which she has nothing positive to say about anyone or anything and who never passes up the opportunity to scold and admonish everyone and everything - ...

Being Canadian and vehemently anti-American unfortunately is all too common in my country but being Canadian and vehemently anti-Canadian quite frankly makes little to no sense and as a nation we collectively find her to be tedious and tiresome and wish that she would permanently stay in SoCal or San Francisco or wherever it is in the States that she's currently haunting and would please stop crossing over the 49th parallel...


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

So you don't like Joni?


----------



## Guest (Jan 21, 2018)

Tulse said:


> So you don't like Joni?


Honestly... she's so freaking and relentlessly cranky that if she were a forum member she would spend so much time arguing in "Analogies for Atonality and Tonality" or "Anything Wagner" that she would eventually need to buy a condo so that she would have some place to stay because she would never leave... Whatever you do don't repeat don't let her join your "The State of Britain" group because she likes the UK just about as much as CA and the US which is to say "not very much"...

And on a completely unrelated note - (I'm here by the way - not that anyone cares - because there is very little to do in Saskatoon Saskatchewan on a Sunday morning and everyone has caller ID and I'm virtually certain that everyone is "ignoring" my calls for fear that if they pick up I'll never stop talking which quite frankly is a very real fear to have)...

There's a game tonight which means that this morning's skate is "optional" which means that it will only be me and a rookie goalie who says things like "stop shooting the puck at me" _while he's standing in front of the freaking net_...And if you ask him "so where am I supposed to shoot?" - He'll say "anywhere but at me"... It is at this moment that I decide that every puck that I shoot will be aimed squarely at his head... He tries to skate away to the safety of the locker room but no one skates slower than a goalie and I still manage to fire off at least a dozen pucks to the back of his head, back, and padded a**... My slap-shot is crazy wild but my "wrister"... geez that "wrister" hits the bulls-eye (or the goalie's head) most every time!

Anyway... I'm so bored that I'm posting music clips on groups that I never heard of on a thread the title of which "Acid Folk" literally has no meaning to me whatsoever but as a good teammate I like to pitch in when I can... I can't even do any more of my homework as I appear to be about 3 months ahead of everyone else...

I will refrain from any commentary as I find it almost impossible not to be insulting and I like everyone who posts in this section (well, almost everyone) and don't want to make any unnecessary enemies.... "Necessary enemies"? - Now those you can never have too many of...











And throwing this one in for the good Doctor... -






And hey...Britannia... please do not allow either these hair styles or clothing to ever come back in fashion, eh?... Thanks!


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Why you youtubing that in an acidfolk thread?

...

And that Kristina lp isn't much of acidfolk either.


.......


----------



## Guest (Jan 22, 2018)

regenmusic said:


> Robert Hinchliffe [UK] - a_4. Words Upon An Ocean


That's good, and very rare!


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2018)

dogen said:


> Tír na nÓg are still extant, I believe. My brother liked them as I recall.


I played the first couple of albums. They were okay. Extremely mellow.


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

How bout Jefferson Airplane? They are my favourite acid folk band. Today is one of my fav songs of all time


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> I played the first* couple* of albums. They were okay. Extremely mellow.


You've taken two for the team! :tiphat:


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The Airplane is great, but how could we forget...Lothar and the Hand People!


----------



## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

This might seem a bit of a stretch but an interesting case is made for it in the excellent book, Electric Eden:


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Youse have NO concept of acidfolk (the correct term ,by the way is wyrdfolk) if you are including Airplane and Lothar.


----------



## Guest (Feb 7, 2018)

Dr Johnson said:


> This might seem a bit of a stretch but an interesting case is made for it in the excellent book, Electric Eden:


We read the same books Dr Johnson. A remarkable transformation by Talk Talk in a short period of time and notable too for the ubiquitous Danny Thompson being on the record.

Here is Synanthesia from 1969:






Ne'er give heed unto an evil counsellor.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Young's book is a biggun.
But size don't count.

He pretty well ignores Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

And he does Canada a disservice by calling clown-Cohen and Joni mitchell Americans and Figgy Duff band British.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Oh man!
The scrotes bagg-burn is intense on this thread.

Not sure I can handle it.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

There are just too many ludicrous things going down in this thread.
A veritable avalanche of falsehoods.

For one: Harper, Martin , Buckley & Drake are now "acidfolk"????

Aye . And the Pope is Jewish.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

I know that Tim Buckley is babbled freely about the internet as being of this stupid term, "acid folk". This must be because of the "Lorca" lp. If forced, I would use an equally stupid term to describe that strange (and very difficult) lp: exptal folk. It is not wyrd music in any sense and neither is it psychedelic (acid). It does not encompass the thematic constraints of wyrd (such as the supernatural or paganism) and you cannot have something be psychedelic that is completely _vocals_-heavy.

The early lps are straight folk. The only Buckley I have in my collection is the wonderful "Hello Goodbye" lp. Most certainly NOT acidfolk. I don't care what your book says.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

The Deacon is very uncomfortable with your term "acidfolk".
"Folkrock"? Most certainly a creation of God.
But what is this mythical creature, "acidfolk"? Like Genesis' squonk, has anyone actually seen this creature? I maintain that - outside of a handful of questionalble lps - no. The very concept is hare-brained.

You see, it all comes down to this: what do you mean/infer by "acid".
Way I see it, the clear take on the term acid is one (or both) of two qualities:
1/literally acidic: cutting, biting. Like acid eats into metal. This would infer: a/ bitter or uncomfortable-ness/dark LYRIC .America had way better terms for this "genre" - "loner" or "downer" folk. (Earlier in this thread I called Bill Bixby's "Ode To Quetzacoatl" lp something like acidfolk...when the correct term would clearly be downer: he is pulling you, the listener down. Afterall its all about giving-up and suicide.)

Acid also severe, unsettling, threatening...acerbic. Like the voice itself being rough, grating -acid (or caustic! Heehee!). Comus, Current 93. _Not_ the quaint picture of gentle hippies-in-the-sunny-field (as on the cover of your book.)

Incredible Stringband always comes up as being acidfolk , as do the solo lps of Mike Heron. Robin Williamson , like say Dave Cousins of Strawbs, certainly has that voice perfect for what I prefer to call wyrdfolk (that 90s phenomenon), but Heron?? Have you ever heard a Heron solo lp? I have - just recently, by the by. It is SONG-WRITER. Nowhere near your strange concept of "acidfolk".

Okay- back to the point:
In this sense, The Deacon finds it definitely lacking/insufficient. For one thing, its way too GENERAL: blues can be extremely dejecting, yet have you heard the term, "acidblues"? (Well, I certainly HOPE not.) It is unworkable because it can be found in so many musical genres. Folk does not hold all the cards when it comes to the tragic, to the depressing, to the self-loathing/self-centered - shoite, then most all early Dylan is this "acid" of yours! Even the perky,up-tempo Monkees did "Going Down" , "Early Morning Blues and Greens", and "Writing Wrongs".

That leaves us with 2/. The sense I'm pretty sure you mean.

That is to say "psychedelic".

The godawful term "psychfolk" or -even more ignorant - "psychefolk" (Hey dimwits! Psyche was mythology - the beloved of Eros.)


----------



## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

One very Oweslyan evening on the Mayan moored in a summer clime David said to Stephen and Paul, "Hey listen, I can make my guitar sound like the crashing of waves." And Stephen and Paul said, " Hey that's sounds great. We just both finished reading a John Wyndham novel. "

Might not be *the* definition of acid folk, but it certainly is a good example.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

No idea.

Is this nonsense like Dylan's "Tarantula"?


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

So we come to this notion of acidfolk = psychedelicfolk.

For music to be psychedelic it has to attempt to facsimilize the altered state of consciousness (brought on by LSD).
The musicians (and vocalists) must incorporate studio & compositional "trickery" to disconcert,confuse, defamiliarize the listener and,send him to another level - to Satanic Request's "In Another Land".
This is accomplished by various means:
echo, reverb,flanging,multi-tracking,melodies/vocals deliberately off-key (ISBand) or exotic. Backtracking. Varispeed.tempo changes,dissonance, foreign modalities.

Now the trouble with trying this on folkmusic is that it is just too difficult since folk music for the most part is SPECIFIC not universal. It is specific to VOCALS;to well-tried themes (social concerns such as labour's rights ,religion...). It is too securely _tied to the traditional_ to be made convincingly psychedelic.
Can you see Martin Carthy or Pete Seeger ever being psychedelic? No. (In the case of Carthy, folkrock yes, but psychfolk, no.)

Lyrics are very important in folkmusic and lyrics always tie a piece to a particular time - in Folk's case, never the future. I don't really want to say this, but this is why folkmusic quickly and easily becomes "dated".

So - think of it - what a curious choice of genre to attempt to psychedelicalize.

Its like trying to paint a blue bum on a hippo and calling that slap-together "creation" a baboon.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Finally we come to wyrdfolk. The one term that The Deacon _is_ accepting and comfortable with.

Why so?
Because it is easier to replicate false Paganism than it is to do altered mind states.
And because wyrd is prettywell ******* Wickerman-ish and oldendays time specific; it is right there indeed in the very roots of folkmusic.

A few 80s/90s bands into this mystical, supernatural Standing Stones scene are: Gwydion Pendderwen (first lp only) , Stonebreath/Tim Renner, Green Crown, The Trees Community.( I suppose In Rowan Ring also, but I have not heard that in ages and perhaps they were a bit more into Deadcandance-drone than folk.)


----------



## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Acid Folk has been known to focus on the illusion rather than the reality, especially after its practitioners have dropped a few tabs beneath the radar of conventionality. The individual referred to in the third person as The Deacon seems to have embodied the spirit of whatever he’s on about, and I can only salute the depth of his irascible wisdom. Third person Larkenfield says hello while floating in clover.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

The Deacon seems to be very focused on semantics and definitions. I agree these are important. Nevertheless I also think The Deacon overestimates his influence on the world. And maybe wasting his time here at Talk Classical is not the best strategy to achieve his goals. I also don't understand how he can propose a compound word like wyrdfolk. What is that 'wyrd'? Esperanto? It certainly isn't English according to Cambridge and Oxford dictionaries. Wyrd!


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

Phil loves classical said:


> How bout Jefferson Airplane? They are my favourite acid folk band. Today is one of my fav songs of all time


Airplane are one of my favourite bands.Skip Spence wrote 'My best friend' on Surrealistic Pillow and was drummer on the debut album Jefferson Airplane Takes Off. Unfortunately his life spiralled downward, due to schizophrenia, high drug use and a black magic woman.

Whilst incarcerated in a mental institution he wrote 'Oar'. He made some demo tapes on his release which were put out by Columbia in their raw form and became their worse selling album to date. It is a remarkable collection of songs and my best non-classical find of 2018.






Spence's musical output was over after this record, at the age of 23, but he survived for another 30 years of drug addiction, mental hospitals, half way houses. trailers and street living.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

Spirogyra were named after a type of algae. It was Martin Cockerham's band which included Canterbury scene singer Barbara Gaskin and Fairport Convention drummer Dave Mattacks. This is their 3rd and last album:






Gaskin went on to get a UK number one in 1981 with Dave Stewart covering 'It's my party'.


----------



## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

If I was teaching Rock and Roll 101 and you handed in a paper called _Acid Folk_ and you didn't cover the Airplane, I'd mark you down. They are too big of an overlap of Venn Diagrams and the subject matter! _The Farm, Wooden Ships, Good Shepard_!!!!! And those are just the examples on one album.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Jeff Airplane are NOT that which you claim. Period.



















The "Oar" lp by Spence is simply bad downer music. (By the way, speaking of mentals, I read somewhere that ALL members of Comus back in the day had mental issues. That is something, considering there were as many as 7 members of the band at the very start. Mebbe it was commune-madness?)

Spirogyra, yes. I would consider them in your acidfolk catagory. Not that much "Bells Books & Shambles" but moreso, 'St Radiguns" lp. (There is a demo tape '70-'71 cd called "Burn The Bridges" but this - I'm thinking,since I have not played it in ****'s - is more traditional folk.)

By the way, The Deacon has "Bells..." lp on German Brain press , haze-laminated sleeve (which is rare enough, but the UK org. is worth a small fortune).
....................

Casey: the term "wyrdfolk" was coined - guess around 1998 - by Timothy Renner.Used in a magazine he created. He got the word from Pratchett's book, "The Wyrd Sisters" Renner started out with the wyrdfolk band ,Mourning Cloak. Then he went full-acoustic with the band ,StoneBreath . Following that cd was a V.A. tribute to Clive Palmer & Incredible String Band called "Winged We Are" (or something like that.) Then comes the much-recommended cd by Spectral Light Mooncoin Firefly Snakeoil Jamboree. He learned banjo in 2 years and on this cd you have queer, dark Appalacian ballads (plus chants and Persianfolk-influenced thingies.)


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Is it more fun to concentrate on the music, or instead to concentrate on the name of the music?


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

Does this count? Who cares, I love The Roches.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

dogen said:


> Does this count? Who cares, I love The Roches.


Who cares indeed! The main thing is that yet more good music is shared.

No doubt we will be told if it counts in due course.

I'm playing their Rock Goes to College performance at Loughborough just now. They remind me a bit of the Indigo Girls, but funnier.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2018)

Tulse said:


> Who cares indeed! The main thing is that yet more good is music shared.
> 
> No doubt we will be told if it counts in due course.
> 
> I'm playing their Rock Goes to College performance at Loughborough just now. They remind me a bit of the Indigo Girls, but funnier.


Hadn't heard of them. On YT you can see the Indigo Girls performing Hammond Song, with Suzzy Roche's daughter Lucy.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Did you know Spirogyra has Nick Drake's old school buddy doing the strings?

Spiro has some of the perverted lyric to share with the un-copyable Comus, but nowhere near that degree of evil. Not that intense/frantic and not the wild acoustic guitar work.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Casey: "wyrd" is derived from Old English. Also used in Norse and Teutonic mythology.

Tolkien, Herbert and Moorcock used it in their books.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Is this the meaning of 'wyrd' you meant?

wyrd1 [] 1. f (-e/-e), n (-es/-) fate, chance, fortune, destiny; Fate, the Fates, Providence; event, phenomenon, transaction, fact; deed; ge~ condition; pleasure; [weorðan]; 2. f (-e/-e) verbosity

Source: http://old-engli.sh/dictionary.php


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

There is a Norse goddess sorta like one of the Three Fates. Urd. Some say "wyrd" comes from there.


Is any of this relevant?


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Maybe not if you know what 'wyrd' means but I don't. What does it mean then according to you?


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Weird folk/folkrock with supernatural,Pagan, pre-Christian moves.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Early definition: 
"The point where folk music starts to go
strange around the time of psychedelia in 1967 onwards and makes a connection back to
it's traditional roots encompassing dark story telling, non-christian religion, local
rites and a deep appreciation of nature. Inspired by early Pink Floyd and Nick
Drake, there is no actual grouping, only a number of musicans and bands working in a
similar area. Psychedelia opened perceptions and allowed folk music to progress (or
regress depending on how you see it) and take in influences into the music. The
music is variously known as "acid-folk", "wyrd-folk" and "dark-folk" but the sound is
unmistakable, a darker, simple folk music that reaches into our shared past."


I don't know about being "inspired" by Pink Floyd. Early Floyd (on lp, not live) was, afterall, pop music.


----------



## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

The Deacon said:


> Weird folk/folkrock with supernatural,Pagan, pre-Christian moves.


So 'wyrd' equals 'weird' in your textbook (as I expected). But 'wyrd' does not mean 'weird'. See my quote from the old english dictionary above.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Casebearer said:


> So 'wyrd' equals 'weird' in your textbook (as I expected). But 'wyrd' does not mean 'weird'. See my quote from the old english dictionary above.


That's like saying William Byrd is related to a beird!


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Found this post I made back in 2000 (when I was still spelling it "psyche"!):

1/acid BITES
2/"acid" guitar leads HAVE to be electric .(When acoustic guitar even 
APPROACHES "Acid", it ventures more into the domain of "quirky" 
or "grotesque")
3/sitar is equivalent to psyche, not "acid"
4 "acid-leaking cover art"- now this clearly means drug-
induced,psychy, arabesque-whatnot art. But "acid" rock, "acid"folk 
has nothing to do with drugs - it means the music CUTS like razor 
wire!(Better than fuzz guitar is backwards guitar - this lacerates in 
both directions!)


Whatever "acidfolk" is, one thing for sure: we all want this "acidy 
feel" (except, of course, in the pit of our stomachs.)

I suggest W.G. drop the "acidfolk" term and use instead "electric 
psyche-folk". (But I'm just being a martinet.)

Acidfolk is one thing,but when dealers become purposely 
vague,misleading and equivocate, thats another.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

TREES "The Christ Tree"

US band (not to be confused with the UK folk band.) 

"Like some wyrd-*** parallel universe Jesus 
Christ Superstar concept album if it has been filtered through a 
Comus/Wiccan vibe. Actually, imagine the Revolutionary Army of the Infant 
Jesus album with These Trails vocals and you would be getting close.
The lp was created in 1975 and came out on the Private label "Pomegranate". As stated on the lp it was recorded in real time with the musicians picking up and putting down instruments as they went through the pieces. The lp was recorded in an old flour mill somewhere in Michigan on a 16 track recorder.

The lp is a concept lp with the correct title being "The Trees perform The Christ Tree, a musical meditation". The instrumentation used is too varied to list but instruments vary from Harp, Pump Organ, Sitar, 1/4 tone Zither to Banjo, Mexican Bell Wheel, Koto and Shenai. Seeing the instrumention as listed sort of harks back to the Incredible String Band documentary where the band outlines the instruments used in their performances (scary stuff). Vocally the lp relies on the use of choral like vocals and a 60 voice Trappist Monk choir is even used. Considering the lp was recorded "go to whoa" in one shot, it makes this lp truly unique and wonderful. I havent heard anything like it before as a whole and it would surely be classed Wyrdfolk. Unfortunately it is an lp that doesnt seem to turn up at all. "


----------



## Guest (Feb 17, 2018)

I wonder if Hawkwind's debut album could be classified as acid folk.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

You are stating this because its more acoustic and totally different fro what followed?

The only track I recall offhand is "Hurry Down Sun(sumart)" and its got a happy-vibe.

But then again, Hawkwind sometimes had wyrd inspiration. (And Moorcock helped.)


----------



## Guest (Feb 17, 2018)

What about Current 93?


----------



## Guest (Feb 17, 2018)

The Deacon said:


> You are stating this because its more acoustic and totally different fro what followed?


Yes./////////////////////


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Current 93 was considered wyrdfolk right from the start. (Was listening to "All The Pretty Horsies" just yesterday!)

Myself - I dont really see it as folk, but it certainly has that sinister vibe going.

Some COIL is similar - like "Horse Rotovator" lp. Did you know the label screwed them out of royalties on this title and another?)


----------



## Guest (May 29, 2018)

*MIGHTY BABY*






There is so much more obscure stuff waiting to be discovered. Mighty Baby were an English band. Their eponymous album was released in 1969.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

Yes, but nothing to do with the subject.


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2018)

Some members of Mighty Baby got into Sufism and made an album of Arab music but with soft vocals. They were The Habibiyya and a couple of tracks are available on YT from their album If Man But Knew.


----------



## The Deacon (Jan 14, 2018)

I know that lp well.
It sucks.

If you're into that sound, you are much better off with Third Ear Band.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Roger Rodier - Upon Velveatur (1972)

Although the album has some rock aspects, I can't help associating him with folk because of his acoustic guitar playing.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Mark Fry - Song For Wild (Psychedelic 'Acid' Folk 1972)


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Espers - Flowery Noontide

A new "Acid Psych" band, not so scary after all.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

These Trails -[12]- Garden Botanum

Let this one play to the 1:20 part, a lot of weird synths come in, very nice. It's not true acid folk perhaps because of them. The album is also online.

I'm getting these from an acid folk playlist but it seems maybe it's a wide genre?


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2018)

The Incredible String Band






Eponymous debut


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2018)

Victor Redseal said:


> What about Current 93?


David Tibet is a rather unique individual. Listening to the album below is like wandering in on some kind of service being held by a weird Christian cult.






It is one of those records where it is good to hear the words but not understand the lyrics.


----------

