# Schubert’s 3rd symphony recommendations



## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

A very good symphony IMO by a relatively young Schubert. I have the Kleiber one coupled with the 8th. Since Kleiber is a legendary conductor and this is one of his only 5 symphony studio recordings I was wondering how well it holds up to others. In other words, what are your favorite performances of this symphony? Feel free to also leave your thoughts on this piece below


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I first heard it on Beecham's record (coupled at the time with the 5th and with a lovely Mediterranean deep blue sky dominating the cover picture of Sir Thomas if I remember rightly). That remains a special recording for me but I have found many others over the years including (from memory) Harnoncourt's with the Berlin Phil and Kertesz. There are quite a few that leave me a little cold (but no need to mention them) and some that I find "good but ...".


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

I know only the Abbado/COE cycle, which is recommended. However, I've been focusing on the 8th and 9th...so the 3rd has not yet made an impression.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

On ionarts.blogspot.com you can find an interesting survey by Jens Laurson that I recommend checking out.

Personally I went with Otmar Suitner, conducting the Berlin Staatskapelle, on Denon. Beautifully played, warm interpretations.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I like the Kleiber a lot, the unconventional aspect is the fast tempo for the second movement, allegretto (but most others seem lame and staid after hearing his...). The piece seems hard to ruin, only a very heavy-handed reading might do that. I don't think the early recordings of Schubert 2-8 the young Maazel made with Berlin Philharmonic around 1960 are easily available outside of boxes but I'd recommend them as well. I am not too fond of Beecham, he comes close to "heavy" for modern tastes and this works better for me in #6 (and even #5). A modern sound "mainstream" recording, beautifully played, is Davis/Dresden (box or single w/1 and 8).


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## Great Uncle Frederick (Mar 17, 2021)

My recent charity shop bargains included a most enjoyable Philips CD of Symphonies 2, 3 and 5 featuring the Orchestra of the 18th Century under Frans Brüggen.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm a big Kleiber fan and his "Unfinished" is my favourite version, but I can't enjoy his Schubert 3 because of that controversial tempo for the second movement. Abbado's been mentioned and, though he's not always my favourite conductor (certainly less so than Kleiber, ironically) I do like his way with the earlier Schubert symphonies in general.


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## Caroline (Oct 27, 2018)

Another for Abbado


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

the earlier Schubert symphonies are firm favourites (I listen to 1-5 with far greater frequency than 8-9)

recent live Harnoncourt COE
Minkowski Louvre 
Manacorda Potsdam......

and on vinyl....Bohm/BPO.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The Blomstedt/Staatskappelle Schubert cycle is on sale at PrestoClassical. Does anyone have any experience with that set?


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Van Beinum was a great Schubertian and his 1955 Concertgebouw Orkest recording of the 3rd is exemplary.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Give these a try, EB.

Harnoncourt (all excellent)
Abbado
Muti
Menuhin (both)
* Immerseel
Bruggen
Suitner
Dausgaard

* the last one I listened to a while back and thoroughly enjoyed.



Manxfeeder said:


> The Blomstedt/Staatskappelle Schubert cycle is on sale at PrestoClassical. Does anyone have any experience with that set?


Yep, had it years. Its a fine set. When did Blomstedt do much that wasn't at least good? Like his Beethoven, Nielsen, etc it's high quality and easily recommendable.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I like the Kleiber performance, too, but yes, it is slightly more controversial. Amazingly, Kleiber manages to find a more authentic 'Viennese' sounding Schubert within this score, despite the obvious Haydn influence, if that makes sense? as he seems to consciously resist focusing on the more Haydn-like aspects of this symphony, but instead is able to find & bring out the elements of Schubert's own distinctive, emerging voice--even though it wasn't yet fully formed, IMO (see my comments below).

Here are some other fine Schubert 3rd recordings that I've liked over the years, if you're interested in doing some selective, comparative listening--in order to get a better sense of where exactly Kleiber's Vienna performance stands, interpretatively, within a crowded field of recommendable recordings:

I. On modern instruments (i.e., the older, more traditional interpretations),

--Wolfgang Sawallisch, Staatskapelle Dresden, Philips--an analogue recording from the 1960s--for me, this performance has its own unique musical insights, although some may find it too old fashioned & overly slow in places. (IMO, Sawallisch's time in Dresden produced some of the finest recordings of his career: the period included a very good Schubert 1-9 cycle, & one of the top cycles of Robert Schumann's 4 Symphonies, as well as Sawallisch's earliest, superb recordings of three of Schubert's best known masses).






--Herbert Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden, issed by both Berlin Classics & Brilliant--an analogue recording from the 1970s. Here is the great Staatskapelle Dresden (in those days) recorded a decade or so later in slightly better analogue sound than under Sawallisch. For me, both Sawallisch & Blomstedt are more insightful Schubertians than Abbado.






--Sir Thomas Beecham, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, from 1958-59. In my view, this is the best of the pre-stereo era recordings of Schubert's 3rd symphony--at least I believe it's late mono (but very good mono), & a stylish, strongly characterized performance:






--Otmar Suitner, Berlin Staatskapelle, Denon--Suitner's set is currently my digital cycle of choice among the 'old school' accounts (it was recorded in 1988); since I can find Sir Colin Davis's Dresden cycle to be hit & miss; though admittedly Sir Colin was perhaps at his best in Schubert's earlier, more "Haydn-esque" (or Mozartian) symphonies (& the 8th), such as the third, seeing that he was a Haydn conductor of the first rank. So you may wish to compare the Suitner & Davis digital 3rds (see my links below).

Though personally, I can't tell much, if any difference between Davis's style of conducting in Haydn & his Schubert 3rd myself--as it sounds exactly like his Haydn, style-wise, & I'm not sure that's entirely a good thing?, especially after you've heard some of the period & HIP performances... such as Immerseel's, for example (see below). Nevertheless, the Staatskpelle Dresden does play fantastically well here, as usual (in superb digital sound), & it's a very fine performance:

Suitner:





Davis:





Eugen Jochum was another great Schubert conductor, but I don't believe he ever recorded the 3rd. Nor did Pablo Casals, either. You might also want to check out Istvan Kertesz's Schubert, too, since he likewise had a good reputation in this music.

II. HIP, on modern instruments (all digital recordings),

1. Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra--speaking of hit & miss conductors, here Harnoncourt dusts off the cobwebs with his extensive experience in the period movement, & turns in a riveting HIP performance of the 3rd that is extremely well played by the Concertgebouw musicians--definitely one of my top 3 or 4 picks, overall:

Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D. 200: I. Adagio maestoso - Allegro con brio
Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D. 200: II. Allegretto
Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D. 200: III. Menuetto. Vivace - Trio
Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D. 200: IV. Presto vivace

2. Antonello Manacorda, Kammerakademie Potsdam, Sony:
https://open.spotify.com/album/2NimhoIUkYOPTbTKkKMTAx

3. David Zinman, Tonhalle-Orchester Zürich:
Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D.200: I. Adagio maestoso - Allegro con brio

III. On period instruments,

--Jos Van Immerseel, Anima Eterna Bruges, Zig-Zag territories--from a complete 1-9 cycle. What separates Immerseel's Schubert from other cycles is that he took the pains to find authentic Viennese horns from Schubert's own time, and the different orchestral balances that creates can be fascinating to hear. With the result being that you tend to notice the horns more, which is a good thing, IMO, because it makes the symphony sound a lot more like Schubert was under the spell of Beethoven, in places, rather than just Haydn. Which appropriately puts the symphony into a later context, where I think it belongs. Hence, this is one of my most essential top picks for the 3rd:

Sinfonie No. 3 in D Major, D. 200: I. Adagio maestoso - Allegro con brio

--Frans Bruggen, Orchestra of the 18th Century, Philips--another terrific period cycle & 3rd. I can never decide which cycle I prefer between Bruggen & Immerseel's. Both are excellent. Though Bruggen does have the more extensive experience conducting Haydn Symphonies, if that matters here (though, to be honest, I've never actually sat down and compared their 3rds).

Schubert: Symphony No. 3 in D Major, D.200 - 1. Adagio maestoso - Allegro con brio

Bruno Weil is another period conductor who is very fine in Schubert, however, I don't believe he has recorded the 3rd.

I've not heard Marc Minkowski's Schubert.

With that said, as mentioned, I don't think Schubert had quite fully found his voice as a symphonic composer by the time of the 3rd, & wouldn't do so until his 4th & 5th Symphonies (both of which I prefer to his 3rd). To my ears, Schubert's first three symphonies tend to be more heavily under the influence of Haydn & Mozart, & at times Beethoven. Which doesn't make them bad or any less enjoyable, but I don't think of them as being fully mature Schubert yet. So, perhaps the 3rd benefits from what Kleiber does to it?


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Josquin13 said:


> I like the Kleiber performance, too, but yes, it is slightly more controversial. Amazingly, Kleiber manages to find a more authentic 'Viennese' sounding Schubert within this score, despite the obvious Haydn influence, if that makes sense? as he seems to consciously resist focusing on the more Haydn-like aspects of this symphony, but instead is able to find & bring out the elements of Schubert's own distinctive, emerging voice--even though it wasn't yet fully formed, IMO (see my comments below).
> 
> Here are some other fine Schubert 3rd recordings that I've liked over the years, if you're interested in doing some selective, comparative listening--in order to get a better sense of where exactly Kleiber's Vienna performance stands, interpretatively, within a crowded field of recommendable recordings:
> 
> ...


incredible post, thanks for all the recommendations and I’ll be checking all of them out. Thank you for also describing each recording which always helps for me!


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Merl said:


> Give these a try, EB.
> 
> Harnoncourt (all excellent)
> Abbado
> ...


I heard a lot of good about muti’s cycle and I’ll check it out


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

EvaBaron said:


> I heard a lot of good about muti’s cycle and I’ll check it out


I only said give those a try. They weren't all my personal recommendations, EB! Lol. Tbh, if I was in the market for a first, really well-played, well-recorded set (analogue or stereo) then Blomstedt, Harnoncourt (esp Concertgebouw) and Abbado are all much better options than Muti. I know a certain critic loves the Muti (and I did used to rate the Muti highly but then I started collecting the others and nearly all surpass Muti) . The problem is (like his Beethoven cycle) he's so 'safe'. He never takes any chances in the music so whilst nothing is 'bad' there's not much that excites either (see also Nott and that awful, stuffy Barenboim cycle). Life's too short - look elsewhere!

PS. The Suitner is a gem but it's always expensive.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Interesting, Merl: you prefer Harnoncourt's Concertgebouw set to the Berlin one. It has a lot to recommend in it (including a stunning 4th) but is a lot darker than the Berlin set and falls down (IMO) on its 8th and 9th. I certainly agree that Muti can be bettered, even by the rather slick Abbado!


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Great Uncle Frederick said:


> My recent charity shop bargains included a most enjoyable Philips CD of Symphonies 2, 3 and 5 featuring the Orchestra of the 18th Century under Frans Brüggen.


I bought the Bruggen Schubert cycle (as a download) Presto has it in FLAC for $13, which is what I paid. 

(A search brought up a second FLAC set of the same recordings (I presume) at double the price.)


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> The Blomstedt/Staatskappelle Schubert cycle is on sale at PrestoClassical. Does anyone have any experience with that set?


I like it.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Interesting, Merl: you prefer Harnoncourt's Concertgebouw set to the Berlin one. It has a lot to recommend in it (including a stunning 4th) but is a lot darker than the Berlin set and falls down (IMO) on its 8th and 9th. I certainly agree that Muti can be bettered, even by the rather slick Abbado!


Those recommendations were based on a mix of price /availability /quality. Like you, Enthusiast, I much prefer the Berlin set but last time I looked it was stupidly expensive and you could pick the Concertgebouw cycle up really cheap (I paid an obscene £3 for it). That was some time ago and I'm probably out of step with prices so yeah, if the Berlin one is at a good price, I'd go for that but I suspect it'll still be stupidly priced. I love the Suitner but thats really overpriced. The Abbado is a bit 'slick' but it's a decent set and you can usually get it at a good price. Blomstedt has always been great value and you still see it at cheap prices. That's the problem with the Schubert cycles, they don't seem to hang around long on the catalogue. Some cycles disappeared rapidly (Viotti, Bott, Zander, Maag, Zinman, etc) and now command daft prices.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Sorry for the double-post. Of the 10 sets I have on cd (pic below) I have an eye for a bargain and none of these sets cost me more than a fiver and some were ridiculously priced (the Marriner being the silliest price at only £3). I have most of the other cycles on the HD but I've never been able to get hold of a few due to their rarity. The Davis set was a similarly silly £2 and I really like him in the symphonies up to #6. The other issue with the Muti, btw, is that the 9th is stupidly split over 2 discs. As I mentioned in another thread, some time back, I got around that by burning the whole symphony onto a spare blank disc (not that I ever play it these days). My current set on the car USB is Zander, which is pretty decent. Before that I'd had the Herreweghe, Dausgaard and Immerseel sets in the car. The Immerseel and Dausgaard are the priciest sets I've bought on download. Got the others way cheaper.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Merl said:


> Those recommendations were based on a mix of price /availability /quality. Like you, Enthusiast, I much prefer the Berlin set but last time I looked it was stupidly expensive and you could pick the Concertgebouw cycle up really cheap (I paid an obscene £3 for it). That was some time ago and I'm probably out of step with prices so yeah, if the Berlin one is at a good price, I'd go for that but I suspect it'll still be stupidly priced. I love the Suitner but thats really overpriced. The Abbado is a bit 'slick' but it's a decent set and you can usually get it at a good price. Blomstedt has always been great value and you still see it at cheap prices. That's the problem with the Schubert cycles, they don't seem to hang around long on the catalogue. Some cycles disappeared rapidly (Viotti, Bott, Zander, Maag, Zinman, etc) and now command daft prices.


Ah, OK. The two best sets that I know IMO are that Berlin Harnoncourt one (currently £35 from Presto but double that from Amazon UK) and the Kertesz one (Amazon UK has a used - vg condition - one for £30). I don't know the Suitner (I really must search it out for a listen after your praise) and as you say it seems to be OOP.

I know others that have merits - Zinman, van Immerseel etc - but they also seem to be OOP. Minkowski's set can be had for a little under £30 and is good if occasionally a little driven. And then there is Menuhin (the one with Sinfonia Varvosa) which I like a lot and has an extraordinarily fast 9th (fast but it works!) and can be had from Amazon UK for £15 (less for used). Finally there is Bohm - some find it dull but it has a certain style in the way that much of Bohm's work for Classical period music did - that can be had for under £20 and has a great 9th and a pretty good 8th.

As you say recordings come and go very quickly and I have found it impossible to keep up. Some sets get started (recently Holliger and Jacobs) but then get lost. *But the thing is for me is that symphonies 1-6 are slight works and need a special touch to really flower. That's why Berlin Harnoncourt and Kertesz are worth the money for me.*


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Merl said:


> Sorry for the double-post. Of the 10 sets I have on cd (pic below) I have an eye for a bargain and none of these sets cost me more than a fiver and some were ridiculously priced (the Marriner being the silliest price at only £3). I have most of the other cycles on the HD but I've never been able to get hold of a few due to their rarity. The Davis set was a similarly silly £2 and I really like him in the symphonies up to #6. The other issue with the Muti, btw, is that the 9th is stupidly split over 2 discs. As I mentioned in another thread, some time back, I got around that by burning the whole symphony onto a spare blank disc (not that I ever play it these days). My current set on the car USB is Zander, which is pretty decent. Before that I'd had the Herreweghe, Dausgaard and Immerseel sets in the car. The Immerseel and Dausgaard are the priciest sets I've bought on download. Got the others way cheaper.


Our posts crossed. You obviously got a bargain with the Marriner set - I've been looking at it for years and it has often been over £100 (as it is now).

And. oh yes, I had forgotten the Davis set ... also one I remember as being very good. I must replay some of it to refresh my memory.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Thanks for all the recommendations, based on this I will be checking out Suitner, Harnoncourt (berlin), Kertesz and Davis. Luckily price and availability is not a problem for me since I stream everything


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Enthusiast said:


> Our posts crossed. You obviously got a bargain with the Marriner set - I've been looking at it for years and it has often been over £100 (as it is now).


That Marriner has gotta be my bargain of the Century. I was looking on Fleabay one day, about 10 years ago, when I put in 'Shubert' for a bit of fun (missing out the C - btw this trick doesn't work anymore!). A few things came up but one was the Marriner set labelled as 'Shubert simphonies' (it was on auction with a starting price of £3 including p&p), had no bids, there was no pic (but it did say 6 discs in the description) and only a day or so left. A few days later still no bids and 15mins left so I threw in a bid (with a top bid of about £8) expecting it would go nuts. Unbelievably I was the only bid so got it at initial price. The guy sent me a message afterwards saying "you got a bargain". I certainly did but with the spelling mistakes and the fact he'd put it in the wrong category (LPs) I didn't say anything. I also picked up a few other items from him at silly prices on 'buy now' on the same day (also poorly labelled on his adverts).


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I love the recording by
asmf/Marriner

from the 10 symphony set


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Marriner is great in the early symphonies, I find him lightweight and superficial in the 8th and 9th.
And that completed 10th, ugh Just listen to what Bartholomee/Liege does with it - or rather, don't bother at all.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Merl said:


> I was looking on Fleabay one day, about 10 years ago, when I put in 'Shubert' for a bit of fun (missing out the C - btw this trick doesn't work anymore!). A few things came up but one was the Marriner set labelled as 'Shubert simphonies' (it was on auction with a starting price of £3 including p&p), had no bids, there was no pic (but it did say 6 discs in the description) and only a day or so left.


Sentimental Viennese Sh


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

The 3rd is such a sweet and magical work. I actually like it better than the 5th or 6th. I'm not even terribly picky about the recording because it's a hard one to mess up.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

clavichorder said:


> The 3rd is such a sweet and magical work. I actually like it better than the 5th or 6th.


So do I, 2 and 3 are my favorites of Schubert 1-6.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I just listened to the Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden set, and it is very high quality. It's a very easy recommendation, especially at its current Presto Classical sale price of six bucks.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I think I will listen to that Blomstedt cycle. I already have recordings for 8 (Kleiber) and 9 (Munch) but is the cycle good for 1-6?


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

EvaBaron said:


> I think I will listen to that Blomstedt cycle. I already have recordings for 8 (Kleiber) and 9 (Munch) but is the cycle good for 1-6?


Of the 4 cycles I own, the Blomstedt is at least tied for best in the earlier symphonies (which I quite like).


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I've probably said this already (in this thread or elsewhere?) but there are many good recordings of Schubert 3 but there are very few that really make it sparkle as it can. Without that sparkle it is a good young Romantic composer's symphony but it can rise to the top of that pile in the right hands.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

clavichorder said:


> The 3rd is such a sweet and magical work. I actually like it better than the 5th or 6th. I'm not even terribly picky about the recording because it's a hard one to mess up.


I certainly prefer it to no.6, but no.5 is probably my favourite of all of them. I've heard the "Unfinished" a tad too many times now and I've always found the Great C Major easier to admire than to love.


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