# Sounds similar to Beethoven and Brahms?



## Tallefred

I don't know a lot about music. All I know is that these two composers are the two who consistently work for me. I can't identify what it is about them that does that, although if I had to put it into words I guess I would say that they're very stimulating- they're loud and bouncy and they keep me on my toes.

I've heard people comparing Mozart and Beethoven, but honestly I have always found Mozart to be exceptionally dull. When I listen to his music I find myself drifting away, and all it gives me is a headache. Whereas with Beethoven and Brahms I can't tear myself away, and always find myself waving my arms in time to the music. They completely blow me away. There is one piece by Mozart that I really, really like. Requiem, which is my favorite musical piece. But then that's not really Mozart, is it?

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could recommend some other composers that have the same feeling as the one that Brahms shares with Beethoven but Mozart does not? I don't know what it is. Just for the record, I'm discussing symphonies here. I haven't gone through any of their other music (with the exception of Beethoven's string quartets- didn't like them) because I don't have the time or the patience to spend months looking for music. But if you recommend a piece in another genre I'll give it a shot.

I've already tried Haydn, Mahler, Bach, Vivaldi, Pergolesi... maybe a few others. Bach had some choral stuff I liked, although the frequent solos drove me crazy- I think I would have loved St. Matthew's Passion if not for them, and considered deleting them to see how it sounded. I think Vivaldi's Four Seasons was decent, and I liked Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, although it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Hope that helps. 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## JAKE WYB

DVORAK - any symphony of the nine you cant beat at all there is an endless feeling of life and ceaseless melodic flow and invention


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## Tallefred

I'll take a look at them. Thanks.


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## Argus

All the S's.

Schubert, Schumann, Sibelius, R. Strauss. I'd explore them in that order.

Then possibly Smetana, very early Schoenberg, maybe Spohr and at a stretch Saint-Saens, Shostakovich, Szymanowski and Stravinsky. Then slowly progress onto Subotnick, Stockhausen, Schaeffer, Scelsi and Schnittke. That should take a few years.

I agree with JAKE that Dvorak's symphonies are very much worthy of comparison to Beethoven's best. I'd start with his later ones which are more familiar.

Also, revisit Bach at some point. Seeing as you like orchestral works try his Brandenburg Concertos, then move onto the Violin and Harpsichord Concertos. He did so much stuff I find it hard for anyone who likes classical music to_not_ to find something they like of his.


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## Kieran

Crikey! You find Mozart "exceptionally dull?" Have you got ears? 

Listen to Mozart's C-minor piano sonata, his 20th and 24th piano concertos - you'll hear Beethoven there. Loads of other places too, but I wouldn't want ya to fall asleep! 

Just teasing ya! 

And what do you mean, Mozart's Requiem isn't really Mozart? Yikes, in fact! He composed some of it on his death bed. Granted, he didn't finish it, but it's his. The good bits are, anyway. 

Happy hunting, and I think you may enjoy Mahler's symphonies, if you enjoy Beethoven's...


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## Serge

You should definitely look into Bruckner if you have not done so already. Not really quite like Brahms and Beethoven, but a unique and a great symphonist in his own right. And just like Beethoven and a bunch of other guys he happened to compose 9 or so symphonies. Coincidence? 

Also, he worked as an organist in a church and might even written one or two of those masses that seem to be to your liking as a genre.


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## Guest

Glad to find another Brahms lover! He's by far my favorite composer.

You might enjoy Mendelssohn. Try his Hebrides Overture and the 3rd and 4th Symphonies. Rachmaninoff is a good choice too, especially the 2nd and 3rd Piano Concertos.


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## Guest

Beethoven and Brahms are incredible. Here is what I would add to your list (symphonies only):

Schubert - the 8th and 9th. Wonderful symphonies! You can get them both on one disc with Charles Munch/Boston Symphony Orchestra - amazing recording.

Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique. Earlier Romantic period, not entirely similar to Beethoven or Brahms, but definitely not Mozart. I love it. Michael Tilson Thomas made a wonderful recording of it with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.

Dvorak - All his symphonies are nice, but start off with the last two, numbers 8 & 9. Go for Rafael Kubelik's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic (you get both on one disc).

Bruckner - really, there is much to enjoy in all his symphonies (the earliest ones, like the 0 and 00, maybe not as much), but if I had to start with one, I'd get the 4th. Sergiu Celibidache's recording is a transcendental experience, but some don't like the slower tempo. Gunter Wand's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic is a good starting point.

Mendelssohn - I really have only come to appreciate the 4th symphony. I don't have a preferred recording as of yet.

Tchaikovsky - his 6th gets the most attention, and for good reason, but don't neglect the others. The 3rd has lately fascinated me. I have Mariss Janssons recordings of the entire cycle with the Oslo Philharmonic, and have enjoyed them.

Rachmaninoff - I know, everybody talks about his piano concertos, but he did compose other stuff, and his 2nd symphony is as beautiful as many symphonies I have heard. Leonard Slatkin has a new recording with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra that I highly recommend.

Hovhaness - I haven't delved too deeply into this composer, but his symphony No. 2 "Mystery Mountain" had immediate appeal. I don't have a preferred recording, but have enjoyed the one by Gerard Schwarz and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra.

I tried to give you actual recording recommendations, and where possible money saving ideas (two symphonies on 1 disc), but without sacrificing quality. Kubelik's Dvorak and Munch's Schubert are no slouches.


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## Kieran

Hey Tallefred,

I was thinking, my reply may not have come across as witty as I intended! It sounds sarcastic, but this wasn't my intention. Of course, anyone can find Mozart - or anyone else - dull, I was trying to be whimsical, and flopped. Sorry!

The key to understanding Beethoven is to see where he came from, and largely, the influence in his early period is Mozart. With Mozart, sometimes the initial reaction is that his music is effortless, light and pretty. But after a while, it takes a more tragic or profound turn. The first impression is usually of one thing, but further listens reveal a more substantial happening beneath.

But if symphonies are your thing, then you have some great recommendations above, and Mahler is worth a listen too, just to see where the symphony went after Beethoven's innovations...


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## Conor71

Yes, I second recommendations for Schubert and Dvorak as well - for the Baroque period you may like Handel?.


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## Tallefred

I can't believe I forgot Schubert! I love Schubert. I have no excuse for why I forgot to include him on my list, although for some reason I do always think I'm going to hate him before I actually turn the music on. But as soon as I do, I can't understand why I felt that way. I don't know.

Thank you everyone for the music suggestions. I'm bookmarking this thread, and I'll start working on them.



Kieran said:


> Hey Tallefred,
> 
> I was thinking, my reply may not have come across as witty as I intended! It sounds sarcastic, but this wasn't my intention. Of course, anyone can find Mozart - or anyone else - dull, I was trying to be whimsical, and flopped. Sorry!
> 
> The key to understanding Beethoven is to see where he came from, and largely, the influence in his early period is Mozart. With Mozart, sometimes the initial reaction is that his music is effortless, light and pretty. But after a while, it takes a more tragic or profound turn. The first impression is usually of one thing, but further listens reveal a more substantial happening beneath.
> 
> But if symphonies are your thing, then you have some great recommendations above, and Mahler is worth a listen too, just to see where the symphony went after Beethoven's innovations...


No problem, I wasn't insulted. When I first started listening to classical music, Mozart was the first composer I really liked. Back then I was looking for relaxing music, and was listening to Celtic music as well. But after a while my tastes changed- I heard Epica's POTC, and Beethoven's work, and I realized how much energy there could be in classical music. I guess I had really bought into the way people my age generally think of classical music- as being calm, quiet, and boring.

These days I mostly listen to music when I'm writing, and for that I need the energy Beethoven and Brahms bring into their music. It's there to keep me focused and energized, and it does the job well, along with being so beautiful I could cry. Anyway, that's what Beethoven has that Mozart does not- the sheer, booming power he incorporates into his music.


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## Weston

As if you didn't have enough suggestions already, I am finding *Anton Rubinstein* remarkably Beethovenian. I was surprised and gratified to read (in Wikipedia) that many of his contemporaries who also knew Beethoven said he even looked like him and thought he must be Beethoven's illegitimate son!

Anyway, I love his music.


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## Sid James

If you like Brahms, try his friend - the Hungarian violinist who premiered his _Violin Concerto _- *Joseph Joachim*. He was a Brahmsian in every sense of the word. Some of the works you would try would (obviously) be his own violin concertos (he wrote several, but the one _"In the Hungarian Style"_ - below a youtube link to the first movement - is said to be the best), and some concert overtures (_Hamlet, Henry IV_). I still have a tape of all of these pieces, and it was available on disc in the 1990's, but I think it's out of print, as I can't find it on amazon - but I see Naxos have issued the violin concerto. Happy listening - I think you're 99% sure to like this...


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## jhar26

Tallefred said:


> These days I mostly listen to music when I'm writing, and for that I need the energy Beethoven and Brahms bring into their music. It's there to keep me focused and energized, and it does the job well, along with being so beautiful I could cry. Anyway, that's what Beethoven has that Mozart does not- the sheer, booming power he incorporates into his music.


It's a silly comparison, but that's like saying that Chuck Berry didn't have the booming power that Led Zeppelin had. But Chuck created the rock'n'roll of his time just like Led Zeppelin did for theirs. It's just that Led Zeppelin came along at a later period in the history of rock - it's a matter of evolution. Likewise Mozart sounds very different from Brahms because they composed at different periods of musical history. Brahms wouldn't have sounded like the Brahms we know if he had lived 100 years earlier and Mozart's music would also have been different if he had been born 100 years later. If you dislike the music of one of them it has nothing to do with a lack of ability on their part but only that you happen to like the style of music of the other man's era better.

If you want recordings of symphonies that sound almost exactly like those of Beethoven you should check out Ferdinand Ries' music. His music sounds so Beethoven-like that it wouldn't be an exaggeration to call him an imitator. Mind you - he's nowhere near as great as Beethoven, but if nine Beethoven symphonies isn't enough for you, you could add the eight that Ries wrote to your collection. They are not of the same quality as Beethoven's, but the're good enough to enjoy them.


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## Tallefred

jhar26 said:


> It's a silly comparison, but that's like saying that Chuck Berry didn't have the booming power that Led Zeppelin had. But Chuck created the rock'n'roll of his time just like Led Zeppelin did for theirs. It's just that Led Zeppelin came along at a later period in the history of rock - it's a matter of evolution. Likewise Mozart sounds very different from Brahms because they composed at different periods of musical history. Brahms wouldn't have sounded like the Brahms we know if he had lived 100 years earlier and Mozart's music would also have been different if he had been born 100 years later. If you dislike the music of one of them it has nothing to do with a lack of ability on their part but only that you happen to like the style of music of the other man's era better.
> 
> If you want recordings of symphonies that sound almost exactly like those of Beethoven you should check out Ferdinand Ries' music. His music sounds so Beethoven-like that it wouldn't be an exaggeration to call him an imitator. Mind you - he's nowhere near as great as Beethoven, but if nine Beethoven symphonies isn't enough for you, you could add the eight that Ries wrote to your collection. They are not of the same quality as Beethoven's, but the're good enough to enjoy them.


I never said Mozart was bad, I just said he didn't have the qualities I was looking for. I'm sure Mozart is incredible for the type of music he was trying to create, but it's not what I'm looking for.

It's like telling someone who doesn't like fish that the salmon is absolutely delicious and there's no way they wont like it. But what to you tastes delicious, to them only tastes more like fish.

I'll look up Ries. Thanks for the tip.


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## jhar26

Tallefred said:


> I'll look up Ries. Thanks for the tip.


Yes, check him out. But he's in my opinion not a 'great' composer, but 'merely' a good one. Here are a few other symphonies, all of them better in my opinion than anything Ries wrote that you might enjoy. Some of them have already been mentionned by others.....

- Mendelssohn's symphony No.4
- Farrenc's symphony No.2
- Tchaikovsky's symphony No.6
- Saint-Saens' symphony No.3
- Dvorak's symphony No.9
- Alfven's symphony No.2
- Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" (technically not a symphony, but an incredible orchestral work in four movements)


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## Guest

A friend of mine with a degree in music told me something once about Mozart. I had initially also not been that excited about Mozart, compared to Beethoven, and thought his music only cheery, unserious fluff. My friend related to me a conversation he had with a professor, who said that you start and end with Mozart. Mozart is great for starting classical music appreciation, because he seems light and simple and easily enjoyable. Then you feel you have to move on to weightier matters - Beethoven, Brahms, Mahler, Schoenberg, etc. And then after a while, you revisit Mozart, and once you have that musical appreciation, you come to realize that there is, in fact, more to Mozart. Great depth. Genius compositions. It isn't all fluff. There is a lot of serious stuff (and not just the Requiem). 

But to each their own. Brahms and Beethoven are also incredible.


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## Dim7

So which of Mahler's compositions have you listened to and what do you think about them so far?


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## eothen

Was just browsing through the forum threads and came upon this - the title caught my attention. i'm a big Beethoven and Brahms fan too - and i know EXACTLY how you feel about Mozart, cos that's how i felt for years. If it's the apparent lightness / fluffiness that you don't like in Mozart, then you should listen to his Great Mass in C minor, which sounds like a great gothic cathedral. And his Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor, which i swear has sections that sound almost like Beethoven. The Requiem too, of course. And his sonatas for piano and violin (i've got the recording by Uchida / Steinberg) - perfect depressing music for cold rainy days when you just want to curl up at home with a steaming cup of hot chocolate and wallow in non-work-related reading. 

Am starting to appreciate the rest of Mozart a lot more now - maybe it's age catching up with me, but i'm no longer so dismissive of apparent lightness and "fluff" as i used to be.


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## Fabulin

To me the closest to evoking the feelings that Beethoven's music does are the symphonies of Emilie Mayer (1812-1883). Not for nothing was she called _weiblicher Beethoven_ (female Beethoven) back in the day.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Just like Brahms


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## bfBrian

Charles Gounod dubbed Saint Saens "the Beethoven of France". Saint Saens was something of a style bender, who wrote in many different styles, sometimes switching styles for different movements of the same piece.

Although his 3rd symphony is the only one that gets much attention, the 2nd symphony sounds much more similar to Beethoven, particularly in the 1st movement.





I personally love every symphony he wrote, with Urbs Roma being my favorite.


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## janxharris

Tallefred said:


> I don't know a lot about music. All I know is that these two composers are the two who consistently work for me. I can't identify what it is about them that does that, although if I had to put it into words I guess I would say that they're very stimulating- they're loud and bouncy and they keep me on my toes.
> 
> I've heard people comparing Mozart and Beethoven, but honestly I have always found Mozart to be exceptionally dull. When I listen to his music I find myself drifting away, and all it gives me is a headache. Whereas with Beethoven and Brahms I can't tear myself away, and always find myself waving my arms in time to the music. They completely blow me away. There is one piece by Mozart that I really, really like. Requiem, which is my favorite musical piece. But then that's not really Mozart, is it?
> 
> Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could recommend some other composers that have the same feeling as the one that Brahms shares with Beethoven but Mozart does not? I don't know what it is. Just for the record, I'm discussing symphonies here. I haven't gone through any of their other music (with the exception of Beethoven's string quartets- didn't like them) because I don't have the time or the patience to spend months looking for music. But if you recommend a piece in another genre I'll give it a shot.
> 
> I've already tried Haydn, Mahler, Bach, Vivaldi, Pergolesi... maybe a few others. Bach had some choral stuff I liked, although the frequent solos drove me crazy- I think I would have loved St. Matthew's Passion if not for them, and considered deleting them to see how it sounded. I think Vivaldi's Four Seasons was decent, and I liked Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, although it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Hope that helps.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


Mahler's 1st symphony - second movement.
Sibelius 5th symphony - finale.


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## flamencosketches

Well, the OP is long gone. To answer the question for future generations, maybe Antonín Dvořák? He wrote in a lot of the same genres as Beethoven and Bach and in something of a similar manner. He also studied with Brahms I believe.


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## millionrainbows

*CHERUBINI *His string quartets are easily comparable to Beethoven's.


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## flamencosketches

flamencosketches said:


> Well, the OP is long gone. To answer the question for future generations, maybe Antonín Dvořák? He wrote in a lot of the same genres as Beethoven and Bach and in something of a similar manner. He also studied with Brahms I believe.


Definitely meant to say Brahms there, not Bach... :lol:


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## larold

Englishwoman *Ethly Smyth* was an acolyte of Brahms; her chamber music, Serenade in D and Concerto for violin, horn & orchestra all bear the classic-romantic imprint of Brahms. I don't know much about the rest of her stuff but it probably is similar in construction, style and mood.

I think the composer most akin to Beethoven that came after him -- though fellows like Ferdinand Ries tried to copy his style -- was *Mendelssohn*. His "Lobgesang" symphony is clearly modeled after Beethoven No. 9 and the impatience in his Mozart-like piano concertos also reflects early and middle periods Ludwig van. Their violin concertos are similarly mirrors of each other.

While Mendelssohn was of a much lower voltage personality there are many other parallels in their works, one being the comparison of Mendelssohn's oratorio Elijah to Beethoven's oratorio Christ On the Mount of Olives. The temperament of Mendelssohn's string quartets is like middle Beethoven, as well.

There are no other comparisons between the two I know but 8 of *Anton Bruckner's *9 numbered symphonies begin with a cadence similar to Beethoven 9. I think this probably more just the influence Ludwig had going forward in the 19th century.

I don't find much in *Mahler *that reflects Beethoven but there would never have been a Mahler "Resurrection" symphony without Beethoven 9, one of the most influential pieces of music in western civilization.

There are people that say the Symphony No. 1 of *Robert Simpson* has the electric charge of Beethoven. I understand that but wouldn't recommend anyone looking for Beethoven 150 years later to look for it in Simpson.


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## flamencosketches

larold said:


> There are no other comparisons between the two I know but 8 of *Anton Bruckner's *9 numbered symphonies begin with a cadence similar to Beethoven 9. I think this probably more just the influence Ludwig had going forward in the 19th century.


:lol: I haven't heard all of Bruckner's symphonies, but of those I've heard, that is so true. He definitely took the 9th symphony of LvB as a springboard for his entire symphonic output. Given that, I think it's amazing that he never wrote a choral symphony!

Mahler is about as far from Beethoven as a symphonist can get (while remaining a good symphonist), but one could also say he took Beethoven's 9th as a springboard for most of his big symphonies.

Good call on Mendelssohn, and I would also like to add Robert Schumann as a composer whose symphonies are somewhat Beethovenian, as are some of his piano works, although in the end he was an individual through and through.


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## Swosh

George Onslow string quartets and string quintets are a real treat, written around the same time too.


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## DaveM

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Just like Brahms


This could have been a Brahms lost symphony , particularly in the Largetto that starts at 10:00. Note the Brahmsian sequence at 12:25.


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## DaveM

This is a Brahmsian Symphony, particularly from the opening on of the Andante:


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## Kjetil Heggelund

DaveM said:


> This could have been a Brahms lost symphony , particularly in the Largetto that starts at 10:00. Note the Brahmsian sequence at 12:25.


The Gernsheim symphony premiered in 1875, a year before Brahms no. 1 ...


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## Bwv 1080

Well, most everything I like about Brahms came from Schumann and most everything I don’t like came from Beethoven


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## DaveM

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> The Gernsheim symphony premiered in 1875, a year before Brahms no. 1 ...


Then it's probably more appropriate for us to call Brahms symphonies Gersheimian.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

DaveM said:


> Then it's probably more appropriate for us to call Brahms symphonies Gersheimian.


I read somewhere they were friends and Brahms was the older one. Gernsheim is definitely an overlooked composer.


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## MatthewWeflen

Just chiming in late to say definitely Tchaikovsky. I would count Beethoven and Brahms as my top two, and Mr. T really does it for me.


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## Ethereality

Similar to Beethoven: _Gioachino Rossini?_


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## 1996D

You'd be better served by following the order chronologically. After Beethoven: Schubert, Schumann, Liszt, and Chopin are the most relevant. You could even add Mendelssohn. Then comes Wagner and Mahler.

Dvorak, Richard Strauss, Bruckner, and Sibelius are supplementary.


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## Dimace

Listen to Beethoven, forget the Brahms and embrace Liszt! Over. :lol:

(I'm recruiting new members for the Master's club). :lol:


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## 1996D

Dimace said:


> Listen to Beethoven, forget the Brahms and embrace Liszt! Over. :lol:
> 
> (I'm recruiting new members for the Master's club). :lol:


Both are great, Liszt was the better man but Brahms had the creativity. The most creative composers hog all the glory


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## Larkenfield

Unless one has heard everything by Beethoven and Brahms, perhaps the closest thing to them is more Beethoven and Brahms before branching out.


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## Razumovskymas

Tallefred said:


> I don't know a lot about music. All I know is that these two composers are the two who consistently work for me. I can't identify what it is about them that does that, although if I had to put it into words I guess I would say that they're very stimulating- they're loud and bouncy and they keep me on my toes.
> 
> I've heard people comparing Mozart and Beethoven, but honestly I have always found Mozart to be exceptionally dull. When I listen to his music I find myself drifting away, and all it gives me is a headache. Whereas with Beethoven and Brahms I can't tear myself away, and always find myself waving my arms in time to the music. They completely blow me away. There is one piece by Mozart that I really, really like. Requiem, which is my favorite musical piece. But then that's not really Mozart, is it?
> 
> Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could recommend some other composers that have the same feeling as the one that Brahms shares with Beethoven but Mozart does not? I don't know what it is. Just for the record, I'm discussing symphonies here. I haven't gone through any of their other music (with the exception of *Beethoven's string quartets- didn't like them*) *because I don't have the time or the patience to spend months looking for music.* But if you recommend a piece in another genre I'll give it a shot.
> 
> I've already tried Haydn, Mahler, Bach, Vivaldi, Pergolesi... maybe a few others. Bach had some choral stuff I liked, although the frequent solos drove me crazy- I think I would have loved St. Matthew's Passion if not for them, and considered deleting them to see how it sounded. I think Vivaldi's Four Seasons was decent, and I liked Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, although it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Hope that helps.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


I'm afraid there's no way around it, you will have to spend time to discover the gems. What did you think?


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## hammeredklavier

This thread was created 9 years ago, looking at his post count, the OP is not a very active member on the forum. I don't think he'll come back to read our replies but I'll do one too nonetheless (just for other people to see).



Tallefred said:


> There is one piece by Mozart that I really, really like. Requiem, which is my favorite musical piece. But then that's not really Mozart, is it?



















2:40
5:12
6:00
7:30






Missa brevis in B flat K275:

















Missa brevis in F K192:

















As for composers stylistically similar to Beethoven, try Beethoven's contemporaries Cherubini, Schubert, Dussek, Spohr, Danzi, etc.


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## Ethereality

Temperamentally and thematically, I would have to say Chopin is most similar to Beethoven.

Maybe with other elements of Beethoven's music, there are better options. But the overall rhythmic interpretation and emotion for life Beethoven had, I see in Chopin. Some of his music is like rough sketches of a Beethoven symphonic movement. Others very much parallel his harmonic development and quick melody.

This example doesn't do it justice, but it's one exampl I quickly found. Listen at these timestamps






















But there are plenty more examples. What's so great about Chopin at the end of the day is his own harmonic imagination


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## flamencosketches

Ethereality said:


> Temperamentally and thematically, I would have to say Chopin is most similar to Beethoven.


Really? I hear no Chopin in Beethoven nor Beethoven in Chopin (with the exception of one piece, the Fantasy-Impromptu in C-sharp minor, which I suspect was inspired by Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata).


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> Really? I hear no Chopin in Beethoven nor Beethoven in Chopin (with the exception of one piece, the Fantasy-Impromptu in C-sharp minor, which I suspect was inspired by Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata).


Funeral march.

we;svfcmjedslvnjedsbvolnmjd


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## Mandryka

Here's something by Chopin which sounds like Brahms to me


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## Mandryka

And this bit of Haydn sounds like Beethoven to me


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> Funeral march.
> 
> we;svfcmjedslvnjedsbvolnmjd


Beethoven's "marche funèbre" sonata is quite different from Chopin's to my ears, but I haven't heard either in some time.


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## hammeredklavier

Mandryka said:


> Here's something by Chopin which sounds like Brahms to me


I've always thought this sounded like some early preludes of Scriabin (which is why I don't like), Op.10 No.6 is good though.



Mandryka said:


> And this bit of Haydn sounds like Beethoven to me


Reminds me more of Schubert's 4th.
This video discusses many Haydnesque elements in Beethoven symphonies:


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## hammeredklavier

Ethereality said:


>


These sound more like Hummel than Beethoven to me. I don't see reason to consider Chopin more Beethovenian than Schumann and Liszt.
But in addition to the Chopin Op.66 - Beethoven Op.27 No.2 connection flamencosketches mentioned, compare the endings of Chopin Op.10 No.12 and Beethoven Op.111 first movement.


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## hammeredklavier

I find Clementi somewhat similar to Beethoven:


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## DaveM

hammeredklavier said:


> I find Clementi somewhat similar to Beethoven:


Thanks for posting these. Given that Clementi was 18 when Beethoven was born and the time period when these works were composed, it's more like Beethoven similar to Clementi.  The Piano Concerto sounds more like Mozart to me. I like the solemn opening of the Symphony #4, rather original for that era.


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## chu42

Parts of Schumann's Op.11 are very Beethoven. As are part of his symphonies.


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## Alfacharger

DaveM said:


> Thanks for posting these. Given that Clementi was 18 when Beethoven was born and the time period when these works were composed, it's more like Beethoven similar to Clementi.  The Piano Concerto sounds more like Mozart to me. I like the solemn opening of the Symphony #4, rather original for that era.


The 4 late Clementi symphonies that were reconstructed from parts kept in the Library of Congress and the British Museum were probably composed after Beethoven's first 8 were completed.

Now for that Beethoven/Brahms sound I give you Stanford's 5th.


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## hammeredklavier

I'm hearing some similarities between late Beethoven and late Hummel as well:

Hummel Etude Op.125 No.21 in B flat major

[1:38]









(notice the use of the pedal)

Beethoven Hammerklavier 1st movement:





the slow movement of Hummel Sonata in F sharp minor has an "early Romantic song-like quality" (I'm not sure it's the right term) that is also present in the slow movement of Beethoven Op.106 and the first movement of Op.101.
The fugal sections in the Hummel remind me of the ones in Beethoven Op.106, Op.110:

[20:07]
[21:40]
[24:38]






















other pieces I find interesting in this regard:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

flamencosketches said:


> ...with the exception of one piece, the Fantasy-Impromptu in C-sharp minor, which I suspect was inspired by Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.


Indeed, the sonata's third movement in particular.


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## hammeredklavier

This particular section in Beethoven Op.106 reminds me of Chopin Op.58

3:47










4:58










btw, I'm guessing starting the slow movement with a "fanfare" in Chopin Op.58 most likely came from Hummel. Hummel likes to do that often in his concertos.


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## Eusebius12

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Indeed, the sonata's third movement in particular.


The Moonlight sonata is much closer to Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor


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## flamencosketches

Eusebius12 said:


> The Moonlight sonata is much closer to Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor


Are you talking about the op. posth. Nocturne in C-sharp minor, or op.27 no.1? In either case, I disagree.


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