# Repetition, repetition, repetition



## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

Fugue, chaconne, passacaglia - Oh my!
Rondo, canon, ostinato - all the repeating lines!

I want to know:

1. Which form do you prefer?

2. An example of the above, or another that you just have to nominate.

3. Someone with a background - tell me the difference between some of these (like, passacaglia and fugue?)

4. What is it about repetition in music that makes it so _aurally_ mesmerizing? And why are these forms of such permanent interest for composers to write. These forms have lasted the eras.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

1. I like a lot of things that follow a passacaglia form, especially in orchestral music.

2. Fugue: 4th movement of Schumann 3. Passacaglia: 4th movement of Brahms 4, 4th movement of Shostakovich 15, 4th movement of Vaughan Williams 5. Rondo: Mahler 5 and 7 last movements. Canon: First movement of Beethoven 5. Ostinato: Snare drum rhythm in Bolero.

3. Passacaglia contains multiple repetitions(and variations) on a repeating *Bass* motif. Chaccone is like a passacaglia but the motif is not only in the bass instruments. There is not always a clear distinction between passacaglia and chaconne. Fugue: Begins with a motif (called the subject) presented homo or monophonically, then continues into free counterpoint while the subject is repeatedly presented in different keys. Canon: a technique in which a melody is played then restated after a certain duration in such a way that polyphony is created between the two melodies. Ostinato: A repeating rhythm.

4. I have no idea


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Fugue and canon don't really fall under the repetition umbrella, IMO. Sure there's repetition, but the dominant point is the polyphony.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Even LvB broke down once and wrote a chaconne -- his 32 Variations in C minor, WoO80. Good stuff.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Avey said:


> Fugue, chaconne, passacaglia - Oh my!
> Rondo, canon, ostinato - all the repeating lines!
> 
> I want to know:
> ...


It's just like this forum, repetition, repetition


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Oh Pugg, you rascal.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Oh, the irony...


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Avey said:


> Fugue, chaconne, passacaglia - Oh my!
> Rondo, canon, ostinato - all the repeating lines!
> 
> I want to know:
> ...


*Passacaglia* is a variation form, with variations taking place over a (usually) short repeated bass ostinato, although the line can occassionally move into other voices. Ground bass arias like the famous "Dido's Lament" from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas are a closely related form.

*Chaconnes* are not always easily distinguished from passacaglias, in part because the two terms are used sloppily and often interchangeably. If there is a meaningful distinction it is that chaconnes are normatively variations on a short harmonic progression rather than on a bass line.

*Rondos* alternate a repeated theme, usually in the home key each time, with contrasting digressions or episodes. Usual patterns are:

Five part rondo:

ABABA
ABACA

Seven part rondo:

ABABABA
ABACABA
ABACADA

There are longer forms with nine, eleven, etc., sections. Rondo form is usually used for finales in works of the Classical Era and in the Romantic Era more often in a hybrid form known as rondo-sonata form.

*Fugue* is a contrapuntal practice often described as a procedure or process rather than a form because its overall features are wildly variable. The common elements are that fugues begin with an exposition in which each voice begins with the same subject, alternating entrances on the tonic and dominant. The rest of the fugue consists of further subject entrances alternating with episodes derived from ideas in the subject. It modulates through related keys and ends with a final subject statement in the home key.

*Canon* is definitely a procedure and not a form. It simply means that two or more voices play the same melodic material beginning at different times in the manner of a round.

*Ostinato* means any continuously repeated element.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

1. Although chaconne and passacaglia are very important forms and considered "prototypes" of modern variation music, my favourite is still fugue.
2. Another worth-mentioning one is Ritornello form, which also thrives in Baroque era.
3. General and loose descriptions FYI: Passacaglia: variations on a fixed melody (no necessarily the bass). Chaconne: variations on a fixed harmony progression. Fugue: contrapuntal music on one or several subjects/melodies, usually containing an exposition (subject, countersubjects, answer), developments/episodes and restatements/recapitulation.
4. Because it is not just repeating the same idea, but also developing on it. If the core feature of the music is fixed and repeated, while other elements are changing, it makes listeners feel that the music is developing in a gradual and coherent way.


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## Guest (May 31, 2016)

My life is an ostinato and thank bloody god it isn't neverending.


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## Guest (May 31, 2016)

I do love a good canon though, lucky thing they can pop up in just about anything


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Since Anton mentioned it:

*Ritornello form* is the predominant form for the fast movements of baroque concertos. The ritornello theme, which is almost always the only important theme, alternates with developmental passages based on the technique of _Fortspinnung_ (spinning out) and/or freer passages of a virtuosic nature. Unlike the themes of rondos, those in ritornello form change keys fluidly. The pattern of keys tends to be:

I V x x x … I

The x means some diatonically related key other than tonic or dominant. By the way, the subject entrances in baroque fugues tend to follow this same key scheme.

A bit more on *canon*, since my explanation above was simplistic. They are not always like a simple round. There are numerous varieties in fact:

Canon in augmentation means that one voice echoes the other but in longer note values, usually twice as long.

Canon by inversion means that one voice follows the other exactly but in an upside down or mirror version. So if the first voice starts with an upward leap of a fifth, the second voice begins by descending by the same interval.

Retrograde (or "crab") canon means exact imitation but the first note of one voice is the last note of the other. Machaut wrote a famous retrograde canon called _Ma fin est ma commencement_.

There are other esoteric kinds of canons.


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