# Rachmaninov: The Symphonies



## HarpsichordConcerto

Sergei wrote three symphonies over four decades (1896-1936). Relatively speaking, these symphonies don't get much of a mention compared with other symphonies or even his other works.

I am very familiar with #3, which I have come round to enjoying with increasing admiration after listening to all of his solo piano works for some strange reason. (I recently bought his complete piano solo works on CDs).

Which versions of recordings do you have/hate/recommend? All comments/opinions about these works and recordings welcome. Don't be shy!


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## Aramis

I consider this recodring to be first among all:










As for the works.

1st has some notable moments like the ending with gong, very characteristic and simply awesome. Overally it's not stunning work though - it's simply very good symphony that doesn't go under level that you would expect from great composer.

In 2nd he overdosed some of his patents. Too much of those romantic themes, they are in all movements and it has no balance. This symphony makes great listening only if you feel like having really huge portion of those mephitis from Russian soul. If you're hungry for it - it will please you as no other symphony.


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## Delicious Manager

We're lucky to have the First Symphony at all. Its first performance, conducted by a drunk Glazunov (a regular state for him, apparently) was a disaster - under-rehearsed and appallingly conducted. It was so bad the 24-year-old composer rushed from the concert hall and spent hours on a late-night tram with his head in his hands. He had a severe nervous breakdown and composed almost nothing for four years. This now famous Second Piano Concerto was dedicated to his therapist. Rakhmaninov banned any further performances of his First Symphony and the score was lost altogether. Eventually, in 1945, two years after his death, the orchestral pars to the First Symphony were found in a basement in Leningrad and the score reconstructed. The Second Symphony is very famous and often played (at least in many parts of Europe). Some used to consider it over-long and used to cut it savagely. Luckily this trend has died out, although it needs a good conductor to hold this unwieldy monster together. I love the Third with its semi-Hollywood sound. One wonders what a Rakhmaninov film score might have sounded like.

I think Rakhmaninov wrote four symphonies, as I consider his last work, the Symphonic Dances of 1941, as a symphony in all but name - and the best of them all. Interesting how Rakhmaninov quotes the main recurring motif of the First Symphony (which he assumed would never be heard again) at the end of the first movement of the Symphonic Dances. And don't forget the choral symphony _The Bells_!

As to performances, the only performance to have of the First Symphony is the old 1966 recording with Yevgeni Svetlanov conducting the USSR Symphony Orchestra. This performance has so much commitment and fire, nothing else comes close.

Svetlanov recorded the Second Symphony at least twice and his 1964 recording with the Orchestra of the Bolshoi Theatre is a marvel, despite its unfortunate cut in the finale. His later recording with the USSR Symphony Orchestra is almost as fine, but the best of all is Gennadi Rozhdestvensky's 1980s recording with the London Symphony Orchestra.

Svetlanov again has it for the Third - again, he recorded it twice.

As for the Symphonic Dances, the old 1961 recording by Kirill Kondrashin and the Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra is simply one of the best recordings of any of Rakhmaninov's music and, even 50 years later, no other performance has come close.


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## Ukko

Aramis said:


> In 2nd he overdosed some of his patents. Too much of those romantic themes, they are in all movements and it has no balance. This symphony makes great listening only if you feel like having really huge portion of those mephitis from Russian soul. If you're hungry for it - it will please you as no other symphony.


That is simple juvenile BS. Listen to the harmonies.


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## Meaghan

The 2nd was the first whole symphony I ever played. It does get a little soupy at times, but I love it. The first movement is so deliciously brooding and dramatic, the second has a nifty fugue, and the third has a beautiful clarinet solo.  And if you like big romantic symphonies, it doesn't get much more romantic than Rach 2.


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## haydnfan

I like the colorful performances of Jansons. Ashkenazy is more of a powerful Russian reading, so they compliment each other. My favorite recording is Stokowski.


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## tdc

I've listened to a fair bit of number 3 and the Symphonic Dances, both of which I like quite a lot. I've listened to the second Symphony perhaps 2 or 3 times now. I can't really gauge quite yet, where this one stands with me... though I am leaning towards liking it. 

Yet to hear the first, but its something I plan to pick up soon!


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## Sofronitsky

Best second movement of all time anyone?


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## TxllxT

I listen to both Askenazy + RCO and Jansons + St. Petersburg Philharmonic. The Decca recording of the Concertgebouw is one of the best ever and it captures the extreme over-over-overemotional mindblowing highs & depths of these symphonies magnificently. Wait for the explosions in the 1st & 3rd symphonies and check the woofers, whether they survived it: all 'hardrock' will seem soft as a cow's flan compared with this. Jansons interpretation reveals fine details and holds on its own. But Ashkenazy works cathartic to format all harddisks in your head.


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## presto

Aramis said:


> I consider this recodring to be first among all:
> 
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> As for the works.
> 
> I have these wonderful recordings.
> I've only ever heard the 2nd symphony live so I'm a bit bias but I think it's his best one, it certainly has a remarkable impact in the concert hall.
> 
> 1st has some notable moments like the ending with gong, very characteristic and simply awesome. Overally it's not stunning work though - it's simply very good symphony that doesn't go under level that you would expect from great composer.
> 
> In 2nd he overdosed some of his patents. Too much of those romantic themes, they are in all movements and it has no balance. This symphony makes great listening only if you feel like having really huge portion of those mephitis from Russian soul. If you're hungry for it - it will please you as no other symphony.


I have these wonderful recordings. 
I've only ever heard the 2nd symphony live so I'm a bit bias but I think it's his best one, it certainly has a remarkable impact in the concert hall.


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## itywltmt

I own the (budget priced) set under the label "Point Classics", I believe Igor Golovchin conducts. The set is OK, no great shakes. I also have a vinyl recoording of the Second by Maazel and the Vienna Philharmonic (GD, mid-80's I believe). That one is much better. The second symphony is my favourite of the three...

I should make a point of shopping for a better set. I'll monitor the thread for your suggestions!


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## jaimsilva

This is, in any kind, a different reading of Rachmaninov's Symphonies. It should be listened as well.


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## luismsoaresmartins

Penguin Guide recomends the Pletnev recording, recently reissued by DG on a "Collectors Edition". I'm strongly undecided wich set to buy: Pletnev or the above mentioned Ashkenazy... Anyone can advise me? I loved the Previn/Ashkenazy performance of the piano concertos, that can be a good indication to continue on Ashkenazy's Rach!


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## Stargazer

I actually just started on his symphonies (only listened to 2 so far in full) and was pleasantly surprised, it was really good! I'm actually rather obsessed with it now lol, it's not too often nowadays that I find a new work that really floors me. I had always thought of Rachmaninoff as pretty much a "piano composer" much like Chopin but now I see I was mistaken, at least in part. Can't wait to get started listening to the rest!


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## StlukesguildOhio

I quite like this set:










Conducted by Mariss Jansens it includes the _Symphonic Dances_, _The Isle of the Dead_, etc...










This 2nd was particularly strong.


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## Ukko

2nd: Steinberg/Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. The Command Classics recording on 35mm film -either the open reel or original LP release. Do not confuse this with the ABC mutilation.


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## Vaneyes

The EMI Jansons is a very good set recommendation. From it, I have Symphonies 1 & 3 as singles, with Isle of the Dead, and Symphonic Dances as their couplings. For Symphony 2, I like LSO/Rozhdestvensky.


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## Ferranov

Hi, yesterday I began with Rachmsninov symphonies and I have a questiom for you guys.Im lovin the first symphony, movment num.1, and I'm pretty sure I've listened somewhere before, do you know if it have been featured in some movie or something??

Thank you and sorry for my bad english!!


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## techniquest

> Hi, yesterday I began with Rachmsninov symphonies and I have a questiom for you guys.Im lovin the first symphony, movment num.1, and I'm pretty sure I've listened somewhere before, do you know if it have been featured in some movie or something??


Hmm. I don't know about the 1st movement, but the opening of the last movement of the 1st symphony was used as the theme music to a current affairs program way back in the '60's or '70's. I had thought that the program was 'This Week' but I know that show used a Sibelius piece from his 'Karelia Suite', so I must do some more research.


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## techniquest

Got it! It was BBC's 'Panorama'.


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## joen_cph

Weller and the old, fascinating but inconsistent Golovanov haven´t been mentioned, or Lin Tung in the 2nd. Rozhdestvensky´s 1st on Russian Revelation is good too.

De Waart and especially Otaka are rather boring by comparison.


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## Ferranov

ok... I just discovered whats happening here... and its plagiarism.

just listen to the first 30 seconds of this:





and now, at 32seconds mark...:





mistery resolved...

edit:
OMG, this is more serious than I though...


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## techniquest

James Horner is well known for nicking other composers music either in style or through direct quote. Listen to the music from 'The Land Before Time' - it's pure Prokofiev through and through.






The part at 2.06 until the entrance of the female choir is a direct quote from Prokofievs' 20th Anniversary Cantata





The music and the orchestration and the arrangements are beautiful, but they aren't original.


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## tdc

My favorite Rachmaninoff work are his Symphonic Dances. I feel he could've been one of my favorite composers if he would've done more music like this, as opposed to most of his works that (to my ears) are so over-saturated with such over-the top Romanticism. I do enjoy a fair number of his works regardless of this though.


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## techniquest

Going back to the 1st Symphony for a moment (especially as it's my favourite Rachmaninov symphony along with the wonderful 'Symphonic dances'), there really hasn't been a better recording than that by Ashkenazy. I know it's been mentioned before on page one of this thread, but, listening to it again, I have to stress just how good and how powerful this performance is. The ending of the final movement is unique in the very slow tempo that Ashkenazy takes accentuating the rasping brass, a ground-shaking bass drum, screaming strings and woodwinds, and a proper tam-tam that can be heard above everything else. It is as if Rachmaninov is tearing into the earth itself with this desperate, angry and ultimately desolate music. Fantastic!


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## Selby

No love for the Bells symphony? I read that, along with the All-Night Vigil (Vespers), it was one of Rach's favorite pieces.


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## mtmailey

I like the final movements of all his symphonies they have a dance like feel to them.


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## Neo Romanza

I never thought highly of the Rachmaninov symphonies to be honest. They certainly pale in comparison with many other composer's symphonies during that time IMHO.


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## SixFootScowl

Selby said:


> No love for the Bells symphony? I read that, along with the All-Night Vigil (Vespers), it was one of Rach's favorite pieces.


Ah yes, a very interesting symphony. I am listening right now on You Tube. Choral! Nice! So Rachmaninov has four symphonies really.


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## Vahe Sahakian

I have the original 5 CD set of Rachmaninov/ff orchestral works with Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy recorded in 1981-84 on LONDON. The First is probably the finest recording of this work, I see that Ashkenazy is re-recording these works again and I wonder why, to me the sound of Concertgebouw is hard to beat.
I aslo have what I consider the finest Second, it is on BIS label with Litton conducting BPO. Speaking of Second symphony Beatles "borrowed" the main melody of the Second's slow movement in one of their songs.


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## Sloe

Selby said:


> No love for the Bells symphony? I read that, along with the All-Night Vigil (Vespers), it was one of Rach's favorite pieces.


I love the Bells but is it really a symphony?

My favourite Rachmaninov symphony is the third.


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## 13hm13

Thx to my local public library, I'll be sampling some Rach. symph. recordings.

My pref. for #2 is ...










Maybe Zinman/BSO will also come thru for #3.

No guess about #1 yet.


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## Strange Magic

I am very fond of all three symphonies, and was so delighted to first hear the First, after reading that Rachmaninoff had destroyed it after its snake-bitten premiere--what luck that enough was found later to reconstruct it. I'm not a big symphony fan in general, but Rachmaninoff shares with Brahms a distinction of have penned a choice few that really appeal to me, all almost equally.


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## EdwardBast

Sloe said:


> I love the Bells but is it really a symphony?


Yes, it is really a symphony.


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## mbhaub

13hm13 said:


> Thx to my local public library, I'll be sampling some Rach. symph. recordings.
> 
> My pref. for #2 is ...
> 
> 
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> 
> Maybe Zinman/BSO will also come thru for #3.
> 
> No guess about #1 yet.


Great, under-rated recording and it is one of the very, very few that is absolutely complete - most "complete" versions still skip the 1st movement repeat. Zinman once again shows his ability to inspire an orchestra.


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## 13hm13

mbhaub said:


> Great, under-rated recording and it is one of the very, very few that is absolutely complete - most "complete" versions still skip the 1st movement repeat. Zinman once again shows his ability to inspire an orchestra.


This was a golden age for BSO ... with Zinman at the helm. Roughly in the same timeframe, the DZ/BSO team was recording Barber (the Argo CD), as well as Elgar (Telarc) and other goodies ... all superb.


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## CnC Bartok

For me the three Rachmaninov Symphonies gradually get weaker from One to Three, a not uncommon perception, but considering how good No.1 is, no insult either. I know his piano works are "more important", but it is this part of his output that I have the greatest regard for. I'd rank the Symphonic Dances as his masterpiece.

There are some wonderful cycles and recordings out there, and a set from a bygone age - Ormandy's - should get a mention. Previn and Ashkenazy are superb, Jansons, Pletnev extremely good. But probably my favourite set is the one Andrew Litton did with the Royal PO on Virgin. No Bells, alas, but No.1 and No.3 are so exciting with him, and so are the Dances. I see he has done a new cycle (on BIS), which I don't know, I'm afraid.


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## mbhaub

Don't ignore the early Symphony in D. A one-movement work that just reeks of Russian Nationalism. Pair it with Prince Rostislov and Caprice Boheme for a wonderful hour of listening.


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## SixFootScowl

mbhaub said:


> Don't ignore the early Symphony in D. A one-movement work that just reeks of Russian Nationalism. Pair it with Prince Rostislov and Caprice Boheme for a wonderful hour of listening.


Is that the one called the "Youth Symphony"? If so, am listening to it right now.


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## mbhaub

Fritz Kobus said:


> Is that the one called the "Youth Symphony"? If so, am listening to it right now.


That's the one.


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## SixFootScowl

mbhaub said:


> That's the one.


An excellent one it is!


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## flamencosketches

I'm giving Rachmaninoff's second symphony a listen for the first time. The recording is Eugene Ormandy conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra. I decided to buy this set for a couple of reasons: (1) the composer shared a special relationship with this orchestra and conductor, and (2) it was cheap. So far I am really enjoying the music. It's actually much better than I expected. I've never been much of a fan of Tchaikovsky's symphonies in the past and I guess I was expecting the same thing here. Not quite. Great, late-Romantic, Russian music.










I'd like to also hear the late Mariss Jansons' recordings of the Rachmaninoff symphonies.


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## Pat Fairlea

Nice thread!
I think each of the symphonies has to be considered for itself, not as part of a series. They were written too many years apart.
And the Symphonic Dances are wonderful in orchestral and in 2-piano versions.
Conductors? Previn for no.2.


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## SixFootScowl

Delicious Manager said:


> I think Rakhmaninov wrote four symphonies, as I consider his last work, the Symphonic Dances of 1941, as a symphony in all but name - and the best of them all. Interesting how Rakhmaninov quotes the main recurring motif of the First Symphony (which he assumed would never be heard again) at the end of the first movement of the Symphonic Dances. And don't forget the choral symphony _The Bells_!


Well that puts him right up there with Mendelssohn for number of symphonies!


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## SixFootScowl

13hm13 said:


> Thx to my local public library, I'll be sampling some Rach. symph. recordings.
> 
> My pref. for #2 is ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Zinman/BSO will also come thru for #3.
> 
> No guess about #1 yet.


So I have #2 and #3 with Zinman, but apparently he did not record the first symphony.


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## SixFootScowl

Picked this one up the other day. Very good!


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## mbhaub

I've enjoyed the entire Dutoit recordings of Rachmaninoff. They often are ignore or put down, but I like them. Great playing, dramatic, and he really gets to the emotional core of the music. Try the 2nd, too! It's great.


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## regnaDkciN

flamencosketches said:


> I'm giving Rachmaninoff's second symphony a listen for the first time. The recording is Eugene Ormandy conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra. I decided to buy this set for a couple of reasons: (1) the composer shared a special relationship with this orchestra and conductor, and (2) it was cheap. So far I am really enjoying the music. It's actually much better than I expected. I've never been much of a fan of Tchaikovsky's symphonies in the past and I guess I was expecting the same thing here. Not quite. Great, late-Romantic, Russian music.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to also hear the late Mariss Jansons' recordings of the Rachmaninoff symphonies.


Ormandy is considered an excellent Rachmaninoff conductor but, beware, the version of the Second Symphony in that set is heavily cut (as used to be the standard practice at the time it was recorded).


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## regnaDkciN

Vahe Sahakian said:


> Speaking of Second symphony Beatles "borrowed" the main melody of the Second's slow movement in one of their songs.


Not the Beatles but Eric Carmen -- "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again." The same "songwriter" also cribbed much of "All By Myself" from the same composer's Second Piano Concerto.


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## SixFootScowl

I have this set, should be released as box set instead of separately.


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## SearsPoncho

flamencosketches said:


> I'm giving Rachmaninoff's second symphony a listen for the first time. The recording is Eugene Ormandy conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra. I decided to buy this set for a couple of reasons: (1) the composer shared a special relationship with this orchestra and conductor, and (2) it was cheap. So far I am really enjoying the music. It's actually much better than I expected. I've never been much of a fan of Tchaikovsky's symphonies in the past and I guess I was expecting the same thing here. Not quite. Great, late-Romantic, Russian music.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to also hear the late Mariss Jansons' recordings of the Rachmaninoff symphonies.


For Rachmaninov's orchestral works, in Ormandy I trust. Ormandy's recording of the Second was the second or third romantic symphony I ever heard. It's one of my favorite symphonies and recordings. I'll never forget when I first heard the slow movement and instantly recognized, "never gonna fall in love again..." Eric Carmen, one of the great thieves in pop music.:lol:

For an extra special treat, listen to Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra's recording of R's greatest composition, the Symphonic Dances.


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## SearsPoncho

mbhaub said:


> I've enjoyed the entire Dutoit recordings of Rachmaninoff. They often are ignore or put down, but I like them. Great playing, dramatic, and he really gets to the emotional core of the music. Try the 2nd, too! It's great.


Yes! I attended a concert of Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony Orchestra playing Rach's Symphonic Dances, and it rocked.


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## mbhaub

SixFootScowl said:


> I have this set, should be released as box set instead of separately.


I've enjoyed Dutoit's Rachmaninoff set a great deal. David Hurwitz poo-pooed it and I don't understand why. They're brilliantly played, the recorded sound is top-notch and the conducting exciting and dramatic. But don't expect a boxed set of anything from Dutoit for the foreseeable future: the #metoo movement caught up with him and he's a persona non grata in the music world - at least in the US. Too bad, he is a great, great conductor.


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## Geoff48

The EMI (Warner) Previn complete symphonies with the Bells and Symphonic Dances has recently been reissued coupled with the complete Piano Concertos played by Lugansky. priced about £15 on Amazon
Previn initially recorded the last two symphonies on RCA. The second was the cut version. Then he recorded the full version for EMI. It was, I think, the first time it had been recorded and it was magnificent. I believe that Jack Brymer was the clarinetist in the slow movement. Whilst it is now about fifty years old it wears its years lightly and EMI recordings of that period were well recorded. In fact they were far more realistic than many of today’s offerings.
If you don’t mind the once traditional cuts and mono then there is a revelatory recording on Deutsche Grammophon under Kurt Sanderling. However it does sound its age.


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