# strategies for familiarizing oneself with vast amount of standard repertoire?



## blakeklondike (Oct 28, 2020)

I am a professional musician with a degree, studying orchestral composition. Feeling overwhelmed by the sheer size of the repertoire available for study. Does anyone have any strategies for getting to know the rep? thinking specifically of a survey within genre, as well as the ouvre of individual composers. Also, the number of recorded performances available make it difficult— I have often disliked a piece when performed by one artist, then ‘heard’ it when performed by another.

Part of the problem, I think, is that we have all recorded music in human history available at all times— the process of learning and digestion was much simpler when one would buy a record and listen to it a bunch, then buy another!

Also, do different composers require different strategies? Would one approach coming to terms with Bach differently than Mozart, for instance?

An illuminating example from the world of jazz would be, for instance, to learn to ‘hear’ Coltrane by starting with his earlier work and listening to him play standards to familiarize oneself with his sound, then proceed to the further out stuff. 

Thanks for the help!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Getting to know the standard rep may seem daunting, but there are some reasonable paths. It must be understood that it takes time - years and years. I started seriously listening to and collecting classical music when I was 13 or so. Now, over 50 years later while I can honestly say I am knowledgeable of the rep, there are still weaknesses - Bach, Mozart, Haydn in particular. But having attended hundreds of concerts, played in orchestras continuously, conducted some, collected recordings and have a large library on composers, it's been fun and deeply rewarding.

Was there a system? Yes, to a degree. A sympathetic relative gave me the 2-volume *The Milton Cross New Encyclopedia of the Great Composers and Their Music *(1969 ed.). It has mini biographies of some 100 major composers and some minor. It discusses their major works. There was a short history of music and most useful of all: Basic Works for the Record Library. I didn't pay too much attention to the lists for chamber or choral music. But Orchestra music and operas I sought out and got to know well. A public library with a large - and largely unused - classical collection really helped.

There are likely similar books out that are more up-to-date, but my 52 year old Cross was a great way to start. Good luck!

PS: what instrument do you play? If it's an orchestral one, you really should get in an orchestra - any community, amateur, college group will do. You'll learn a lot of the basic rep just by participating.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

blakeklondike said:


> I am a professional musician with a degree, studying orchestral composition. Feeling overwhelmed by the sheer size of the repertoire available for study. Does anyone have any strategies for getting to know the rep? thinking specifically of a survey within genre, as well as the ouvre of individual composers. Also, the number of recorded performances available make it difficult- I have often disliked a piece when performed by one artist, then 'heard' it when performed by another.
> 
> Part of the problem, I think, is that we have all recorded music in human history available at all times- the process of learning and digestion was much simpler when one would buy a record and listen to it a bunch, then buy another!
> 
> ...


OK, so what you need to do is just the get a one piece by just the all-stars:

BACH: Brandenburg Concertos #1 -6 ALTERNATELY: Orchestral Suites #1-4
HANDEL: Water Music ALTERNATELY: Music for Royal Fireworks
HAYDN: Symphony #94 "Surprise" ALTERNATELY: Symphony #100 "Military"
MOZART: Clarinet Concerto ALTERNATELY: Symphony #40
BEETHOVEN: Symphony #5 & 6 "Pastorale ALTERNATELY: Symphony #9 "Choral"
BERLIOZ: Symphony Fantastique ALTERNATELY: Harold in Italy
MENDELSSOHN: Symphony #4 "Italian" ALTERNATELY: Symphony #5 "Reformation"
SCHUBERT; Symphony #8 "Unfinished" ALTERNATELY: Symphony #9 "The Great"
SCHUMANN: Symphony #3 "Rhenish" ALTERNATELY: Symphony #1 "Spring"
BRAHMS: Symphony #2 ALTERNATELY: Violin Concerto
WAGNER: Overtures and Orchestral Excerpts from "The Ring"
TCHAIKOVSKY: Symphony #6 "Pathetique" ALTERNATELY: Symphony #4
RIMSKY-KORSAKOV: Russian Easter Overture ALTERNATELY: Capriccio Espagnol
DEBUSSY: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun, ALTERNATELY: La Mer 
RAVEL: La Valse; ALTERNATELY: Rhapsody Espagnol
RICHARD STRAUSS: Till Eulenspiegel; ALTERNATELY: Also Sprach Zarathustra
STRAVINSKY: Rite of Spring NO ALTERNATE
SCHOENBERG: Survivor from Warsaw ALTERNATELY: Serenade

That's the most concise crash course in orchestral music I can offer. It's my experience that you will soon be bombarded by dozens of alternate plans others eager to help out on this forum. My advice is to choose ONE (and it doesn't have to be mine) and stick with it!


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

It would take years-- I familiarized myself with of the standard repertoire in four years. Since I don't know music theory, I reckon you can cover the distance I did quicker.

My advice is: 
--emphasize the most important composers
--make sure to diversify

Early music: Try Des Prez's Missa Pange lingua

Early Baroque: Monteverdi Vespers

High Baroque: 
Vivaldi: Gloria
Handel: Water Music, Messiah
Bach B Minor Mass, Brandenburg Concertos, Goldberg Variations, Double Violin Concerto

Early Classical: CPE Bach Magnificat

Classical: 
Haydn Cello Concertos
Mozart Piano Concertos 20, 21, 24, Symphonies 38-41

Late Classical: Beethoven Symphonies

Early Romantic: 
Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 2, Barcarolle
Mendelssohn: Italian Symphony, A Midsummer Night's Dream
Schubert Trout Quintet, Symphony no. 9 "Great"
Schumann: Symphony no. 1 "Spring"
Liszt: Faust Symphony

Late 19th century Romantic:
Brahms Symphony 3, Violin Concerto, A German Requiem
Dvorak: Symphony no. 9 "From the New World", Symphony no. 7, Cello Concerto
Bruckner: Symphony no. 7
Wagner: Parsifal and Tristan overtures
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies no. 5 and 6
Mahler: Symphony no. 1 "Titan"

Impressionistic: Ravel Piano Concertos, Debussy Children's Corner Suite

20th century romantic: 
Sibelius Symphony no. 5, Symphony no. 2
Rachmaninoff: Symphony no. 2

Modernist:
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring, Septet
Schoenberg: Chamber Symphonies, Five Pieces for Orchestra
Berg: Violin Concerto
Shostakovich: String Quartet no. 8, Symphonies no. 5 and 10
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra, Cantata Profana
Janacek: Glagolitic Mass
Orff: Carmina Burana

Late 20th century music [not part of the standard repertoire]: Xenakis Eonta, Schnittke Concerto Grosso no. 1, Part Tabula Rasa

And after this, you can familiarize yourself with other works. This represents a lot of styles with a bias towards orchestral music.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Here's something I've noticed from reading music Forums, such as this one. Often professional musicians reveal a lack of knowledge of composers and/or works which, to me, a non-musical professional, are long time acquaintances. It likely has a lot to do with the very fact that musicians work with music. If you play violin in an orchestra, you'll spend a lot of time during your day confronting a handful of generally well-known works, practicing them at home, listening to recordings of them to hear what you might learn, rehearsing them at the work site, playing them in the inevitable concerts. That's a lot of time spent with a handful of works. It also likely means the professional musician doesn't get a chance to explore a lot of "new" music, the unfamiliar, the lesser known works -- works not on his immediate itinerary.

I spent a lot of time working with literary texts -- a handful of the great ones, teaching them in various venues. When I got home to relax, I did that to music. I didn't read another Greek novel. As a result, I became acquainted with a lot of music, because I was curious to hear new works, and I had a love for music. Ironically, perhaps, my repertoire of literature (plays, novels, poetry) remains a lot smaller than I wish it were, and I've noticed over the years that on occasion a person would approach with questions such as "Have you read so and so's book?" or "What do you think of [enter a name of a writer]?" and I could not respond with anything but "I don't know that book/writer."

Or when I was directing or designing a play, or writing one, I spent a lot of time with that single play. When I left the theatre or my writing desk, I didn't jump right into reading a new play. Rather, I listened to a new symphony. When I got into theatre sound design I had a pretty good knowledge of music for creating moods or highlighting situations and setting backgrounds, so that became helpful. But the plays I tended to work on took a lot of time away from opportunities to read new stuff. Because, well ... you just need a break.

A well known guitar player may likely be an avid fisherman, and be good at it, while lacking knowledge of some very basic pieces of classical music. That doesn't surprise me any more. Instead of staying home and listening to music after a day of rehearsing Villa-Lobos etudes, he went fishing. Which is okay.

I hope you'll have success in your musical career, and I would wish you the opportunity to acquire a vast vocabulary of musical knowledge of works and composers. But don't fret too much if you don't experience as much music as others. You'll be doing valuable work honing to perfection that "handful" of music that you devote your life to, and that's important. And there is more than music in the world. (I've even gone fishing a few times!) So just relax into life, try to do the best job you can at your work, and treat your free time as opportunity to grow beyond the requirements of your professional resume. The music will be there, and it will continue to come forward, and you'll grow with it. But you'll also grow as a multi-dimensional human being. And that's important, too. Especially for an artist.

Who knows. You might relax by reading plays. Good gracious, I wish I could.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

blakeklondike said:


> I am a professional musician with a degree, studying orchestral composition. Feeling overwhelmed by the sheer size of the repertoire available for study. Does anyone have any strategies for getting to know the rep? thinking specifically of a survey within genre, as well as the ouvre of individual composers. Also, the number of recorded performances available make it difficult- I have often disliked a piece when performed by one artist, then 'heard' it when performed by another.
> 
> Part of the problem, I think, is that we have all recorded music in human history available at all times- the process of learning and digestion was much simpler when one would buy a record and listen to it a bunch, then buy another!
> 
> ...


I'm a bit gobsmacked that YOU'd be coming to US with this sort of problem. You're the one with the degree in composition, yes?

But I do see the challenge. Obviously, as a music major, you've already had "the best" composers thrown at you as examples of HOW music can be "assembled" by those we call "The Masters".

I've assembled a list of the *Best Soundtracks in Cinema*, starting way back in 1907 (*Ben Hur*) as a sidebar to my *Beginner's Guide to Classical Music*. Imagine a hundred years of music of music, and anywhere from 5 to 40 great film scores every year since 1935, and you've easily got 2,000 scores with which to familiarize yourself. If you listened to one every night it would take you several years to hear them.

And that's quite a small collection of music when compared to a list of *Symphonies*, or *String Quartets*, or *Concertos*. Or *Opera*.

Hell, *Haydn* wrote over a hundred Symphonies. It would take well over 40 hours to listen to them all.

But, yes, there is a way to hear what's necessary. Lists. I did the work for you when I started assembling my *Beginner's Guide to Classical Music*.

For instance . . . I Googled up Top Symphonies, or Top 25 Symphonies, and find 10 sites with LISTS. There might be 10, or 25, they might be in order. I prorated all the entries (Every time a Symphony is listed as #1 it gets 50 points; every symphony rated as #2 gets 49 points. Whoever gets the most points gets ranked closer to #1 on my list.

However, of course, there is a great deal of Classical music that is NOT symphonies, so I kind of had to shuffle. And I can't claim to be unbiased. The Top Twenty are my choices as being the MOST ACCESSIBLE Classical Music for "newbies".

So, 85% of my Top Twenty are orchestral. And Bolero misses the Top Twenty, coming in at #25.

Eventually I'll create a thread for it here, as they all have attached videos, usually live performances, and some explanations to help guide a novice listener.

Here's the first 20:

*Holst - The Planets, Op. 32. 1918
Dvorak - Symphony No.9 in E minor "From the New World", Op 95. 1893
Beethoven - Symphony No. 3 "Eroica"
Stravinsky - The Firebird. 1910	
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Festival Overture, Op. 49. 1882

Vivaldi - Summer, The Four Seasons. 1723
JS Bach - Brandenburg Concerto #6, In B Flat, BWV 1051. 1721.
WA Mozart - Symphony 41 in C "Jupiter", K. 551. 1788
Borodin - In the Steppes of Central Asia. 1880. 
WA Mozart - Overture from The Marriage of Figaro. 1786

Grieg - Peer Gynt: Suite No. 1, Op. 46, and Suite No. 2, Op. 55. (Original score, Op. 23). 1876 
Frederic Chopin - Polonaise Op. 53
Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel orchestration). 1922
Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue 
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

Beethoven - Symphony No.5 in C minor, Op. 67. 1808 
JS Bach - Cello Suite No. 1 in G major, BWV 1007
Carl Orff - O Fortuna from Carmina Burana
Mussorgsky - Night On Bald Mountain (Rimsky-Korsokov arrangement). 1886
Johann Sebastian Bach - Well-Tempered Clavier 2, Prelude F Sharp minor
*

There's only one I'd swap out: I'd take out Summer, and install one of the other seasons. I simply changed my mind . . . all of the other three are far more accessible.

There's my 2¢.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I guess, if I restate it a little, it's intriguing. How, over the course of so many years, did familiarity occur?

Probably anchoring on a few pieces and I bet as a kid I had time to do what I can't do now, which is listen over and over. Plus my brain is entirely different now, when I was younger I could multi-process, read, listen to music, juggle plates and work with my alchemy set at the same time. Now, if i put music on when I read, the music finishes-- and I haven't heard a note. 

I guess you'd hear a few pieces that catch you at first pass, and once you think you have a sense, I bet that similar works pass in more easily. One Brahms symphony, maybe a little tough, but once it's in, perhaps the others are more like -- buttah, as we say.


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## blakeklondike (Oct 28, 2020)

Thanks so much for all the great replies-- maybe I can clarify a little. My degree focus was in songwriting and finger-style guitar, and I am looking to dig deeper into the concert rep we studied. The problem I am trying to tackle is the sheer enormity of a catalogue like Haydn, Bach, or Mozart. Just to listen to all the Haydn symphonies and string quartets would take weeks, let alone absorbing and studying them. And someone like Bach is so dense, with so many different areas of focus that it can be difficult to wrap one's head around where to start. Hopefully that is helpful, and thank you all again!


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

blakeklondike said:


> Thanks so much for all the great replies-- maybe I can clarify a little. My degree focus was in songwriting and finger-style guitar, and I am looking to dig deeper into the concert rep we studied. The problem I am trying to tackle is the sheer enormity of a catalogue like Haydn, Bach, or Mozart. Just to listen to all the Haydn symphonies and string quartets would take weeks, let alone absorbing and studying them. And someone like Bach is so dense, with so many different areas of focus that it can be difficult to wrap one's head around where to start. Hopefully that is helpful, and thank you all again!


Bach actually wrote four Suites for lute which are generally played today on guitar. Quite a bit of finger pickin' in those works, believe me. It may be a place to start with Bach.

Here's one movement, the Allemande, of the first of those Suites, the Suite e-moll BWV 996: 




Here's a video of Suite e-moll BWV 996 that shows fingers at work:


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

Idrk how wanting to study the classical rep outside of guitar has to do with a guitar course. If you say you wanted to go deeper into what you worked with on your course, then start with that and study that.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

blakeklondike said:


> Thanks so much for all the great replies-- maybe I can clarify a little. My degree focus was in songwriting and finger-style guitar, and I am looking to dig deeper into the concert rep we studied. The problem I am trying to tackle is the sheer enormity of a catalogue like Haydn, Bach, or Mozart. Just to listen to all the Haydn symphonies and string quartets would take weeks, let alone absorbing and studying them. And someone like Bach is so dense, with so many different areas of focus that it can be difficult to wrap one's head around where to start. Hopefully that is helpful, and thank you all again!


Alrighty then. Google is your friend.

Google "Top 20 Works by Bach"
"Top 20 Works by Haydn"
"Top 20 Works by Mozart"

A dozen or more hits.

For *Bach* the first one I see is *"Best of Bach"* from *ABC Classic Australia*:

Goldberg Variations. 
St Matthew Passion.
Concerto for Two Violins.
The Well-Tempered Clavier.
"Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" from Cantata BWV 147, Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben. 
Six Suites for Solo Cello. 
Brandenburg Concertos. 
Mass in B minor
Toccata and Fugue in D minor.
Christmas Oratorio
Cantata BWV 140, Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme
Cantata BWV 208, Was mir behagt, ist nur die muntre Jagd
Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068
Magnificat in D major, BWV243

A great list of 14 works, many of the quite long.

*Gramaphone UK* has *10 best Bach works for "beginners"*, and, of course, lists 13:

Orchestral Suites 
Brandenburg Concertos 
Violin Concertos (period instruments) 
Violin Concertos (modern instruments) 
Goldberg Variations (piano) 
Goldberg Variations (harpsichord) 
Partitas (harpsichord) 
Partitas(piano) 
Cello Suites 
Well-tempered Clavier (48 Preludes and Fugues, or The 48) 
Solo Violin Sonatas and Partitas 
Mass in B minor 
St Matthew Passion

Again, a lot of these are collections . . . when you say *Bach Cello Suites*, you're talking about 6 complete suites, and Bach transcribed at least on of the suites (No. 5 in C minor) for lute. Arrangers have transcribed them for solo piano and many other solo instruments and orchestra.

Each of the suites are themselves in six movements or so (the "5th" movement of each is a collection of two "gallantries", either two minuets, two gavottes, or two bourrées).

*Project Revolver* gives their *Bach Top 5*

5. Suite No. 2 in B minor, BWV 1067, Badinerie
4. Harpsichord concerto, in D Minor, BWV 1059 : 2nd movement
3. Toccata in D Minor
2. Air on the G string Orchestral Suite No.3 in D major, BWV1068
1. Richter, Conciertos de Brandenburgo 1-6, BWV 1046-1051

I love the *Brandenburgs*. So does everyone else. They're generally regarded as some of the best orchestral works of the Baroque era. Each of the 6 concertos are arranged for different combinations of instruments. Each run from 10-23 minutes long. An excellent place to start, especially from an arranger's/orchestrator's POV.

Find the lists, read the explanations. Most have links, or cite specific recordings they feel are noteworthy.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

blakeklondike said:


> The problem I am trying to tackle is the sheer enormity of a catalogue like Haydn, Bach, or Mozart. Just to listen to all the Haydn symphonies and string quartets would take weeks, let alone absorbing and studying them.


I think the problem is "studying" this music. You could spend an entire life analyzing and studying just the works of Beethoven. You're right, just listening is a much less time consuming activity, but that is how most of us pursue music - we listen for enjoyment. The only time I study music is when I'm either playing it or conducting it. In the former I'm mostly concerned how my part fits with the rest of the ensemble. For the latter, that's where I really "study". Some music needs little study since it's so transparent and easy to follow - like The Nutcracker. But the Dvorak 8th took real time to study: the form, the harmonic structure, the tempo and dynamic relations, and most of all the orchestration. I studied with a score silently, by playing at the piano, listening to several recordings, and even playing through some orchestral parts (bassoon, clarinet, trumpet, viola) myself to get closer to it. How many lifetimes would it take to really study the Haydn symphonies?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> ..... How many lifetimes would it take to really study the Haydn symphonies?


A friend of mine, who is quite a good conductor, a good musician, did his doctorate in musicology - he knows every Haydn symphony!! name a Haydn symphony, specify a movement - he'll sing the main theme, ID the right key, the instrumentation, the form, everything....I've never known him to miss....pretty amazing....


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Listen widely and randomly (like to CM radio) and the rest will take care of itself.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

blakeklondike said:


> Thanks so much for all the great replies-- maybe I can clarify a little. My degree focus was in songwriting and finger-style guitar, and I am looking to dig deeper into the concert rep we studied. The problem I am trying to tackle is the sheer enormity of a catalogue like Haydn, Bach, or Mozart. Just to listen to all the Haydn symphonies and string quartets would take weeks, let alone absorbing and studying them. And someone like Bach is so dense, with so many different areas of focus that it can be difficult to wrap one's head around where to start. Hopefully that is helpful, and thank you all again!


The blog I created and am still adding to may have what you need. It focuses on the Classical Period but goes into a lot of repertoire and has many video walkthroughs:

http://somethingclassical.blogspot.com


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

SONNET CLV said:


> Here's something I've noticed from reading music Forums, such as this one. Often professional musicians reveal a lack of knowledge of composers and/or works which, to me, a non-musical professional, are long time acquaintances. It likely has a lot to do with the very fact that musicians work with music. If you play violin in an orchestra, you'll spend a lot of time during your day confronting a handful of generally well-known works, practicing them at home, listening to recordings of them to hear what you might learn, rehearsing them at the work site, playing them in the inevitable concerts. That's a lot of time spent with a handful of works. It also likely means the professional musician doesn't get a chance to explore a lot of "new" music, the unfamiliar, the lesser known works -- works not on his immediate itinerary.
> 
> I spent a lot of time working with literary texts -- a handful of the great ones, teaching them in various venues. When I got home to relax, I did that to music. I didn't read another Greek novel. As a result, I became acquainted with a lot of music, because I was curious to hear new works, and I had a love for music. Ironically, perhaps, my repertoire of literature (plays, novels, poetry) remains a lot smaller than I wish it were, and I've noticed over the years that on occasion a person would approach with questions such as "Have you read so and so's book?" or "What do you think of [enter a name of a writer]?" and I could not respond with anything but "I don't know that book/writer."
> 
> ...


Very interesting thought out post. Now it makes sense what i experienced a few years back with my sons piano teacher. I made a comment to her once how much i liked Brahms Handel variations. I was surprised when she seemed unaware of it. Now mind you i have no musical aptitude and couldnt play twinkle little star on a piano. But im a good llstener. Her response now makes sense to me.


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