# Exploring the 555 Scarlatti Sonatas



## Air

One of the most fascinating but gargantuan bodies of work is Domenico Scarlatti's set of 555 keyboard sonatas. When I first began exploring Scarlatti, I had a lot of doubts, but soon I discovered that my fears were for nothing. In fact, as Chopin once noted, Scarlatti's style can be more likened to Mozart than to Bach. It dances, it's joyful, it's rhythmically complex, but it's always clear as crystal. His rapid rhythms and love of tonal modes always makes his works a joy to hear, but I love Scarlatti for very different reasons than I love Bach.

Though his works had a major impact on the development of the classical era and the piano works of Clementi, Mozart, and even Beethoven, Scarlatti began to fall out of fashion in the Romantic era, which was further accelerated by the revival of Bach. However, Chopin, who was a Scarlatti enthusiast, predicted that "the day will come when Scarlatti's music will often be played at concerts and that audiences will appreciate and enjoy it". Chopin was right, but it was not until the mid-20th century that this began to happen. Vladimir Horowitz was the most famous Scarlatti exponent of his era who played a handful of the sonatas as romantic-style miniatures in his concerts. Another great exponent was Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, whose clear, calculated style brings out the best of these jewels. Today, we are seeing an even more increased interest in Scarlatti, with top-notch recordings from pianists like Perahia to Pogorelich to Subdin. There has also been a notable development in HIP Scarlatti, where pianists like Scott Ross have picked up the work of Kirkpatrick and recorded all 555 of Scarlatti sonatas, a supreme accomplishment.

The truth is I personally only know Scarlatti through the various recordings I have by Horowitz and Michelangeli. Though this maybe a very narrow representation of his entire oeuvre, I'll admit that I've loved every ounce of it!

The purpose of this thread is to further explore the 555 sonatas and share the love for one of the greatest keyboard composers of all time who is wrongfully not as recognized as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, and Prokofiev in his contribution to solo piano literature.


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## wingracer

I have a cd by Pogorelich of 16 or 18 of the Scarlatti Sonatas that is truely excellent. I also have three of them by Glenn Gould that are very good.


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## tdc

I was introduced to the music of Scarlatti in a kind of unusual way - guitar transcriptions. So some of my favorite sonatas are admittedly influenced by the guitar versions I initially heard, but I equally enjoy listening to his many sonatas on harpsichord and piano.

k 213





k 27





k 24


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## Air

Michelangeli is my favorite Scarlatti interpreter... the one who I feel brings out the best in his works. Simply gorgeous control, touch, and sense of the music. His playing is very evocative, but always in the Baroque style... never flirting with Romanticism like Horowitz too often does.

k 9 and k 11





k 322





k 159





k 27


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## mmsbls

I have 6 by Horowitz, but I have access to hundreds on the Naxos website (many of these are by Richard Lester on Nimbus). Unfortunately I think most of these are on harpsichord which is not my favorite instrument. Could you suggest some of your favorites for listening? Do you designate them by the K number (whatever that stands for)?

Do you prefer them on piano or harpsichord?


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## Weston

I have several piano versions, but only about a tenth or less of the total number. Two stand out as my favorites:

The Sonata in E minor, K. 402 is very contemplative, not always perky like many of the rest of them, though it does have moments of lightness. It's also one of the longer ones, but still adheres to the ubiquitous form of two repeated and related sections.





The Sonata in G, K. 455 raises goose flesh when it starts what to my ears sound like very rapid modulations thrown at the listener with abandon, at about 1:30 in this video below. Musical acrobatics seldom get better than this. 





Oh - and I wouldn't limit them to either piano or harpsichord. They sound great on both. I've even heard them on accordion, mandolin ensemble, vibraphones, etc. I prefer them on synthesizers and the repeats _must_ be honored.


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## Couchie

I also love the K455, although I prefer a heavier harpsichord interpretation:


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## Air

mmsbls said:


> I have 6 by Horowitz, but I have access to hundreds on the Naxos website (many of these are by Richard Lester on Nimbus). Unfortunately I think most of these are on harpsichord which is not my favorite instrument. Could you suggest some of your favorites for listening? Do you designate them by the K number (whatever that stands for)?
> 
> Do you prefer them on piano or harpsichord?


Call me a philistine, but I actually prefer the piano for Scarlatti. I think a lot of Scarlatti has to do with tonal coloring and dance rhythms, and somehow the harpsichord just seems a bit stale and sluggish compared to the piano in fulfilling this task. As I've stated before, I feel that Scarlatti himself belonged more to the early Classical Rococo style than to the late Baroque style that Bach epitomizes. His influence in piano music was profound over the Classical era (even more so than Bach in this department) and contains the same sort of crystal-like perfection and beauty that one would find in Mozart. It's only my opinion, but I don't think the harpsichord does this aspect of his music as much justice as the piano does. Of course, it takes a very special sort of pianist like Michelangeli to play Scarlatti well, and I do like HIP Scarlatti enough to prefer any of Ross's work to an insensitive, gratuitously Romantic pianist who bangs out (or sugarcoats) these Sonatas and neglects every ounce of what I love so much about Scarlatti's music.

The Kirkpatrick (K. or Kk.) system of classification is almost always used today though once in awhile you'll see the Longo (L.) system or even more uncommonly the Pestelli (P.) system.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

The year 1685 was indeed a historically signifcant year for Baroque music. Three giants were born all in the one year, namely J. S. Bach, Handel and Domenico Scarlatti. We are very, very lucky today to have so much of their music performed and recorded.

For a mere sample of his sonatas on harpsichord, I can warmly recommend two CDs, followed by the whole lot pictured below. I am slowly going through the complete set. I'm sure there are many other fine sets.

*Trevor Pinnock*, harpsichord. This was my first CD of Scarlatti sonatas.









*Christophe Rousset*, harpsichord.









The complete set on harpsichord (majority), fortepiano and organ. *Peter Jan Belder*.
I heard the set by *Scott Ross *is quite good, too. Member mamascarlatti has it, I think.


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## mamascarlatti

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> The year 1685 was indeed a historically signifcant year for Baroque music. Three giants were born all in the one year, namely J. S. Bach, Handel and Domenico Scarlatti. We are very, very lucky today to have so much of their music performed and recorded.
> 
> For a mere sample of his sonatas on harpsichord, I can warmly recommend two CDs, followed by the whole lot pictured below. I am slowly going through the complete set. I'm sure there are many other fine sets.
> 
> *Trevor Pinnock*, harpsichord. This was my first CD of Scarlatti sonatas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Christophe Rousset*, harpsichord.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The complete set on harpsichord (majority), fortepiano and organ. *Peter Jan Belder*.
> I heard the set by *Scott Ross *is quite good, too. Member mamascarlatti has it, I think.


No, I'm afraid I don't. I prefer Scarlatti on the piano (or fortepiano) too and in fact prefer the harpsichord as a continuo rather than solo instrument. I went through a period of complete obsession with Scarlatti and collected a lot of CDs, but the majority were piano. I learned to play the piano so I could play K402, and managed to get far enough to play all the notes (if not the music).


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Here is a scintillating performance of the *sonata in D minor, K.517*. It is a little imperfect, perhaps but gives the listener a dazzling experience! I picked this clip so the viewer can see the skills involved.


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## Air

Wow! 

Thanks for sharing, HC. That is prestissimo indeed, and it's a good reflection of Scarlatti's own skill on the harpsichord, which was apparently very good (and he had to have been good to perform that!).

Talking about awe-inspiring technical feats, here's another one...






Of course, incredible and lovely Martha takes it faster than everyone else. She has a very unique but effective way with those repeated notes that I just envy.


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## wingracer

Wow, the beginning of that didn't even sound like a piano


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## mmsbls

The K. 455, K. 517, and K. 141 are all wonderful. The repeated notes have a distinctive sound that remind me somewhat of parts of Bach's unaccompanied violin sonatas and Partitas. Argerich is fantastic! it almost looks as though her fingers are not quite playing the repeated notes.

For the Classical Music Project Scarlatti's Essercizi Sonatas were nominated. Could some of you tell me why this particular group was nominated? Was it simply that they stand as a unit, or is there something considered especially wonderful about them? I did read Richard Lester's Thoughts on Scarlatti's Essercizi per Gravicembalo 
(http://www.harpsichord.org.uk/EH/Vol2/No1/scarlattiessercizi.pdf) which was interesting.


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## tdc

mmsbls said:


> For the Classical Music Project Scarlatti's Essercizi Sonatas were nominated. Could some of you tell me why this particular group was nominated? Was it simply that they stand as a unit, or is there something considered especially wonderful about them? I did read Richard Lester's Thoughts on Scarlatti's Essercizi per Gravicembalo
> (http://www.harpsichord.org.uk/EH/Vol2/No1/scarlattiessercizi.pdf) which was interesting.


I think it was mainly because they stand as a unit. Its easier than picking a bunch of different sonatas and trying to somehow group them together etc. Also because a lot of great sonatas are definetely in that set.

On another note this was a great thread idea, and I too have been floored by many of the awesome videos posted here.


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## mamascarlatti

mmsbls said:


> The K. 455, K. 517, and K. 141 are all wonderful. The repeated notes have a distinctive sound that remind me somewhat of parts of Bach's unaccompanied violin sonatas and Partitas. Argerich is fantastic! it almost looks as though her fingers are not quite playing the repeated notes.


To me they sound more like a plucked instrument. I always imagine Scarlatti surrounded by the street sounds of Spain and incorporating them into his sonatas.


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## wingracer

mmsbls said:


> For the Classical Music Project Scarlatti's Essercizi Sonatas were nominated. Could some of you tell me why this particular group was nominated? Was it simply that they stand as a unit, or is there something considered especially wonderful about them? I did read Richard Lester's Thoughts on Scarlatti's Essercizi per Gravicembalo
> (http://www.harpsichord.org.uk/EH/Vol2/No1/scarlattiessercizi.pdf) which was interesting.


I would have loved to nominate ALL of them, but that's just too much to nominate in one shot the way the board is set-up. So it was just a way to get a coherent group of 10 of them in. Plus they are great


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## Ravellian

They're lots of fun to play, I can say that! Most of them are easy enough to mostly sight-read through for an experienced pianist. Each sonata emphasizes a particular technical difficulty of the piano: crossing over, rapid leaps, repeated notes, etc. While I can't say they're miniature masterpieces on the level of Chopin (the development sections aren't very intriguing for the most part), they're still a groundbreaking body of work for the piano.


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## tdc

Ravellian said:


> They're lots of fun to play, I can say that! Most of them are easy enough to mostly sight-read through for an experienced pianist. Each sonata emphasizes a particular technical difficulty of the piano: crossing over, rapid leaps, repeated notes, etc. *While I can't say they're miniature masterpieces on the level of Chopin (the development sections aren't very intriguing for the most part), *they're still a groundbreaking body of work for the piano.


I don't think thats really a fair comparison. We are talking a fair stretch of time between the baroque and romantic periods. That'd be similar to me saying 'Chopin's development sections are very intriguing, but his pieces are not masterpieces on the level of Debussy and Schoenberg because Chopin's pieces are so predictably tonal.' You just can't fairly compare and contrast musical pieces across such wide spans of time.

I would suggest that for his time Scarlatti's musical contributions were more or less equivalent to those of Chopin in his time. They actually were kind of similar in ways, ie - sticking mostly to mastery of a solo instrument over orchestrated pieces.


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## Ravellian

I compared them to Chopin because they both wrote primarily A-B-A form pieces (If you want to get technical, Scarlatti's sonatas are closer to rounded binary, but the overall structures are still very similar). 

Regardless of the time span between Scarlatti and Chopin, you can tell when something was written by an inspired hand, regardless of how 'new' the compositional procedure was. And for the most part, the Scarlatti development sections are either bland and uninteresting or completely unrelated to the preceding material. I still love the sonatas, just for everything except the developments.


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## wingracer

But how would you say his developments compare to other composers of his own time?

Note: not being critical, actually curious to hear your thoughts.


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## Air

I actually rather like Scarlatti development sections and am not exactly sure what you are getting at, Ravellian. Scarlatti is very skilled at taking even the shortest motives from the exposition section and changing the tonal colors of that motive (for example - from major to minor, or vice versa) for extended exploration. Entire sonatas (both the A and B sections) are built around these simple, usually rhythmic, and often dance-like motives and when he develops in this way, I find it very charming and actually quite impressive.


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## Ravellian

Maybe I should clarify just a bit: From my ventures with Scarlatti, I have noticed that a large number of the development sections contain little more than simple sequential formulas repeated over and over (which, in my opinion, is boring and uncreative if the sequential pattern is repeated more than 2-3 times). You can find the scores on IMSLP if you want to follow along. Here are examples I can point out, from one volume:

K. 409 in B minor: the ENTIRE development is one long boring repeating sequence.
K. 412 in G major: M. 52-57 all a sequence, M. 63-72 all a long sequence.
K. 414 in D major: Sequences!! Everywhere!!
K. 415 in D major: Actually, the entire sonata is one big long sequence.
K. 416 in D major: M. 61-74 all a sequence, M. 86 - M. 119 (!!) all a long sequence.
K. 423 in C major: M. 59-75 all a sequence, M. 84-101 all a sequence.
K. 428 in A major: M. 27-30 all a sequence, M. 31-34 all a sequence..
K. 429 in A major: M. 34-39 all a sequence.
K. 431 in G major: M. 41-52 all a sequence.
K. 438 in F major: the ENTIRE development is one long boring repeating sequence.
K. 440 in Bb major: M. 17-32: same pattern repeats four times.
K. 441 in Bb major: M. 51-58 all a sequence, M. 59-69 all a sequence.
K. 448 in F# minor: M. 56-76 (!!) all a long sequence.
K. 454 in G major: M. 42-47 all a sequence, M. 58-62 all the same sequence.

Anyway, that's my point. I mean, there's nothing to really compare these pieces to, since they're the really the first keyboard pieces of its kind... I'm just saying, in my opinion, excessive use of sequences implies a bit of lacking in creativity, and it's something I've noticed in about half of his sonatas. Not in all of them, of course. Some of the sonatas are well-crafted all the way through, development sections included.


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## tdc

Ravellian said:


> Maybe I should clarify just a bit: From my ventures with Scarlatti, I have noticed that a large number of the development sections contain little more than simple sequential formulas repeated over and over (which, in my opinion, is boring and uncreative if the sequential pattern is repeated more than 2-3 times). You can find the scores on IMSLP if you want to follow along. Here are examples I can point out, from one volume:
> 
> Anyway, that's my point. I mean, *there's nothing to really compare these pieces to, since they're the really the first keyboard pieces of its kind... *I'm just saying, *in my opinion, excessive use of sequences implies a bit of lacking in creativity*, and it's something I've noticed in about half of his sonatas. Not in all of them, of course. Some of the sonatas are well-crafted all the way through, development sections included.


Well admittedly I haven't gone through all those scores, but a few things come to mind, for one I believe Scarlatti was in service to royalty in Spain during the time the many sonatas were written, so I think it is possible some of them were written in more simplistic ways to accomodate other people playing them? Secondly, by your own words you are acknowledging there are many with well crafted development sections in them as well as acknowledging the originality of the works - in saying there is nothing else from the time to compare them to - that in itself is in my opinion quite a compliment to Scarlatti.

Lastly, in some cases, ie - minimalism and a lot of other 20th century music, the use of repeated sequences can actually be quite effective. Some may see his use of repeated sequences as ahead of his time and/or unique. Since I haven't really heard that criticism before about his works I'm inclined to think this is just your opinion (which you are entitled to) but I think that by listening to the pieces that have been posted here in this thread the quality of the music is apparent, and it has stood the test of time and has been played by some of the most incredible musicians in the world.


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## Vaneyes

mmsbls said:


> I have 6 by Horowitz, but I have access to hundreds on the Naxos website (many of these are by Richard Lester on Nimbus). Unfortunately I think most of these are on harpsichord which is not my favorite instrument. Could you suggest some of your favorites for listening? Do you designate them by the K number (whatever that stands for)?
> 
> Do you prefer them on piano or harpsichord?


I bow to those who prefer "authentic" sound, but I prefer piano for the possibilty of added articulation.

I don't have any favorite "Ks", enjoying all that I've heard. D. Scarlatti CD purchases, so far, involve Sudbin, Tharaud, Zacharias, Pletnev, Queffelec, Tipo, Pogorelich, Gould, Scherbakov, Schiff, Horowitz, Ts'ong, Tomsic, Michelangeli, and Argerich. I look forward to many more.


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## Il_Penseroso

guys, I have a question and hope somebody could help me here: Which one of Scarlatti's works is played at the beginning of the film *The Devil's Eye* Directed by *Ingmar Bergman* ? It's surely in *E major* but I've searched everywhere and found nothing !


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## TresPicos

I remember, back in 1985, the Swedish classical radio channel played all 555 Scarlatti sonatas throughout the year. Three a day or something. Played by Scott Ross.


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## Vaneyes

Il_Penseroso said:


> guys, I have a question and hope somebody could help me here: Which one of Scarlatti's works is played at the beginning of the film *The Devil's Eye* Directed by *Ingmar Bergman* ? It's surely in *E major* but I've searched everywhere and found nothing !


Sonata in E major, K 380 
Sonata in D major, K 535 
Sonata in F major, K 446


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## Il_Penseroso

Vaneyes said:


> Sonata in E major, K 380
> Sonata in D major, K 535
> Sonata in F major, K 446


Thanks a lot, But could you tell me the Longo Catalouge (L) numbers too ?


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## mamascarlatti

Il_Penseroso said:


> Thanks a lot, But could you tell me the Longo Catalouge (L) numbers too ?


You just need this:

Converter for Scarlatti sonata numbers


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## Il_Penseroso

mamascarlatti said:


> You just need this:
> 
> Converter for Scarlatti sonata numbers


What a nice page ! Thanks !


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## giuseppe

*Sonata in E major Kk 380 - Andante comodo*



Il_Penseroso said:


> guys, I have a question and hope somebody could help me here: Which one of Scarlatti's works is played at the beginning of the film *The Devil's Eye* Directed by *Ingmar Bergman* ? It's surely in *E major* but I've searched everywhere and found nothing !


it is Sonata in E major Kk 380 - Andante comodo.

hope now you are happier!!!!

giuseppe


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## PetrB

Air said:


> One of the most fascinating but gargantuan bodies of work is Domenico Scarlatti's set of 555 keyboard sonatas. When I first began exploring Scarlatti, I had a lot of doubts, but soon I discovered that my fears were for nothing. In fact, as Chopin once noted, Scarlatti's style can be more likened to Mozart than to Bach. It dances, it's joyful, it's rhythmically complex, but it's always clear as crystal. His rapid rhythms and love of tonal modes always makes his works a joy to hear, but I love Scarlatti for very different reasons than I love Bach.
> 
> Though his works had a major impact on the development of the classical era and the piano works of Clementi, Mozart, and even Beethoven, Scarlatti began to fall out of fashion in the Romantic era, which was further accelerated by the revival of Bach. However, Chopin, who was a Scarlatti enthusiast, predicted that "the day will come when Scarlatti's music will often be played at concerts and that audiences will appreciate and enjoy it". Chopin was right, but it was not until the mid-20th century that this began to happen. Vladimir Horowitz was the most famous Scarlatti exponent of his era who played a handful of the sonatas as romantic-style miniatures in his concerts. Another great exponent was Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, whose clear, calculated style brings out the best of these jewels. Today, we are seeing an even more increased interest in Scarlatti, with top-notch recordings from pianists like Perahia to Pogorelich to Subdin. There has also been a notable development in HIP Scarlatti, where pianists like Scott Ross have picked up the work of Kirkpatrick and recorded all 555 of Scarlatti sonatas, a supreme accomplishment.
> 
> The truth is I personally only know Scarlatti through the various recordings I have by Horowitz and Michelangeli. Though this maybe a very narrow representation of his entire oeuvre, I'll admit that I've loved every ounce of it!
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to further explore the 555 sonatas and share the love for one of the greatest keyboard composers of all time who is wrongfully not as recognized as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, and Prokofiev in his contribution to solo piano literature.


The omission of one Ralph Kirkpatrick is glaring here. There might not be 555 Scarlatti Sonatas for us to talk about if it were not for Kirkpatrick, with whom Horowitz worked hand in hand when he was selecting a number of Scarlatti Sonatas to record.


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## Novelette

PetrB said:


> The omission of one Ralph Kirkpatrick is glaring here. There might not be 555 Scarlatti Sonatas for us to talk about if it were not for Kirkpatrick, with whom Horowitz worked hand in hand when he was selecting a number of Scarlatti Sonatas to record.


Ah, Kirkpatrick! I've read again and again that his study of Scarlatti's sonatas is a tremendous work of great perceptiveness, erudition, and quality. It's my ambition to obtain his work along with a recording of all of the sonatas. Soon, I hope!


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## worov

How come I haven't seen this thread before ?

I love Scarlatti sonatas. No, that's more than that : I'm a Scarlatti fanatic. In my opinion, Scarlatti is one of the greatest baroque keyboard composer. He's right up there with J.S. Bach. These sonatas are works of unsurpassed beauty.

Being a pianist, I must say I prefer them on the piano, though I like Scott Ross recordings.

My favourite performers are Horowitz, Pogorelich, Inger Södergren, Anne Queffelec, Mikhail Pletnev, Maria Tipo.

I strongly recommend the Naxos series. Naxos is currently recording the full set. Each volume is played by a different pianist. 14 volumes have been released already. All of them are excellent.

My favourite sonatas :

K1 : 




K24 : 



K27 : 



(my all-time favourite)

K69 : 




K87 : 




K141 : 




K213 : 




K427 : 




K443 : 




K492 :


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## maria barbara

Sorry sir, but the main Scarlatti enthusiast, and the one who put him back on the scene was Wanda Landowska : she played him in concert in 1902 !!!! Horowitz is far away... And Chopin was not the only fan : the main piece of Brahms' music collection was an original edition of the Essercizi... Not mentioning Clara Schumann...


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## maria barbara

Dear Worov,
according to the statistics, 7 on 10 of your favorite sonatas (27, 69, 87, 141, 213, 427, and 492) are on the list of the 20 most recorded sonatas : no surprise... The most recorded of all (first by Marcelle Meyer) is 87 : most of the others were Wanda Landowska's choice.


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## Mandryka

I've started to explore Gilbert Rowland's Scarlatti recordings. I first came across him through his Rameau suites, which I liked a lot, so I thought I'd take the plunge and buy one of his Scarlatti CDs. I chose volume 3 to start off, partly because I'm quite interested in K 215. There are some very distinctive recordings of that sonata -- Hantai really takes it very expansively, and Leonhardt (who's my favourite player of Scarlatti sonatas) finds great humanity in it.


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## maria barbara

You also have Andrea Staier on the 215. In my opinion, Leonhardt's Scarlatti is much less wild than Hantai's or Pletnev's. But, as we say in french : "des goûts et des couleurs, on ne discute pas"... (there's no point discussing tastes and colours)


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> You also have Andrea Staier on the 215. In my opinion, Leonhardt's Scarlatti is much less wild than Hantai's or Pletnev's. But, as we say in french : "des goûts et des couleurs, on ne discute pas"... (there's no point discussing tastes and colours)


Yes the stress on "wildness" I see as a bad thing, a superficial thing. Or at least, it tends to put the emphasis on shallow keyboard effects. But in some sonatas there's more to the music than that, and Leonhardt's good at finding those sonatas, and bringing out their humanity.

If you really want wild, there's always Sempé.


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## maria barbara

Hantai is definitely the wildest. What I mean by "wild" is that Scarlatti escapes from usual music, and specially from melody : he does not care cause his music is a "collage" of different short musical pieces which he rearranges (in the second part of the sonata) in a complete freedom. This means that the interpret must forget all he has learned and change his mind at every change of piece : you have to be a bit crazy to do that, a bit wild you know. Hantai does it well, but lots of famous pianists are unable to render that wildness, boldness of thought. The much celebrated Horowitz has not always succeeded to meet Scarlatti, nor, in my opinion, Marcelle Meyer. I dont mention Gould, who was wild enough, but for a reason I ignore, hated Scarlatti (he only recorded three of them, cut in half...).


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## Lukecash12

maria barbara said:


> Dear Worov,
> according to the statistics, 7 on 10 of your favorite sonatas (27, 69, 87, 141, 213, 427, and 492) are on the list of the 20 most recorded sonatas : no surprise... The most recorded of all (first by Marcelle Meyer) is 87 : most of the others were Wanda Landowska's choice.


No offense, but I fail to recognize whether or not this is a snide comment or just an observation. Btw, Meyer has a very light and even touch, what heavenly trills and what exquisite sensitivity to contrast.


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> Hantai is definitely the wildest. What I mean by "wild" is that Scarlatti escapes from usual music, and specially from melody : he does not care cause his music is a "collage" of different short musical pieces which he rearranges (in the second part of the sonata) in a complete freedom. This means that the interpret must forget all he has learned and change his mind at every change of piece : you have to be a bit crazy to do that, a bit wild you know. Hantai does it well, but lots of famous pianists are unable to render that wildness, boldness of thought. The much celebrated Horowitz has not always succeeded to meet Scarlatti, nor, in my opinion, Marcelle Meyer. I dont mention Gould, who was wild enough, but for a reason I ignore, hated Scarlatti (he only recorded three of them, cut in half...).


This is an interesting reply and thank you for taking the trouble to make it. I'm going to relisten to Hantaï's Scarlatti in the light of what you say. I call his style (which is similar most everywhere) "static electricity style" - it's as if the way he treats the articulation and ornamentation makes the music bristle and spark, the ornaments can be like little burrs of sharp metal. In the back of my mind I'd felt that style was too busy for Scarlatti, and I was more attracted to the more "tête reposée" style of Leonhardt or Enrico Baiano or even Vartolo.

But I we relisten to Hantaï in the light of what you've said.

Craziness in performance is something which interests me, so I think I understand what you say - Cortot was pretty crazy sometimes, in Schumann and Chopin.


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## clavichorder

Damn, ravellian's opinion here is well observed and stated, but I don't agree.


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## maria barbara

One has to keep in mind that Scarlatti's music is not usual "sentimental" and melodic music. It's a very special sort of enlightened music, only composed for the pleasure of the ear, and full of crazy repetitions, geometrical games, pure noises (crashes and bangs). When a friend of his, Ludwig L'Augier (reported by Burney, the 18th century musicologist) asked if he was aware that he broke all the rules of composition, he answered : yes I know, but does it offend your ears ?


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## maria barbara

In my opinion, Cortot was more than wild : he smoked opium or other stuff ; some of his recordings refer to other states of conscience. That's great music... from another world. Scarlatti would have appreciated, his music came from elsewhere too.


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## maria barbara

The answer is it's the only piece of music published (and signed) by Scarlatti (1739), 29 sonatas and the famous "cat's fugue". All the others have been copied and "saved" by the queen of Spain, Maria Barbara, who gave them to Farinelli.


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## maria barbara

this was an answer to mmsbis, page 1 (I forgot to quote)


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> Hantai is definitely the wildest. What I mean by "wild" is that Scarlatti escapes from usual music, and specially from melody :* he does not care cause his music is a "collage" of different short musical pieces which he rearranges (in the second part of the sonata) in a complete freedom. *This means that the interpret must forget all he has learned and change his mind at every change of piece : you have to be a bit crazy to do that, a bit wild you know. Hantai does it well, but lots of famous pianists are unable to render that wildness, boldness of thought. The much celebrated Horowitz has not always succeeded to meet Scarlatti, nor, in my opinion, Marcelle Meyer. I dont mention Gould, who was wild enough, but for a reason I ignore, hated Scarlatti (he only recorded three of them, cut in half...).


My emphasis. Unfortunately the bold bit isn't totally clear in English (sorry! I appreciate how hard it is, sometimes I try to write in French, it takes for ever and I'm never totally sure I've said it naturally) - it's the "he does not care cause" which isn't clear. And I suspect it's the critical bit of your idea.



maria barbara said:


> One has to keep in mind that Scarlatti's music is not usual "sentimental" and melodic music. It's a very special sort of enlightened music, only composed for the pleasure of the ear, and full of crazy repetitions, geometrical games, pure noises (crashes and bangs). When a friend of his, Ludwig L'Augier (reported by Burney, the 18th century musicologist) asked if he was aware that he broke all the rules of composition, he answered : yes I know, but does it offend your ears ?


Yes I think I can hear what you're saying about Hantaï, especially vol 1. The music is articulated into short cells, and melodies are interrupted. In the past I'd seen this style as busy. But you've made me think again about what he was trying to achieve. Thanks.

Do you think that you hear this style most clearly in the first volume of Hantai's Scarlatti, less so in the other two?


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> In my opinion, Cortot was more than wild : he smoked opium or other stuff ; some of his recordings refer to other states of conscience. That's great music... from another world. Scarlatti would have appreciated, his music came from elsewhere too.


There's a bit of Plato's Phaedrus where he talks about how madness is essential for poetry. I guess this is what Skip Sempé was really talking about when he wrote about Scarlatti and Duende.


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## Lukecash12

Mandryka said:


> There's a bit of Plato's Phaedrus where he talks about how madness is essential for poetry. I guess this is what Skip Sempé was really talking about when he wrote about Scarlatti and Duende.


Of course Plato was denigrating the Greek poets when he said that


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## maria barbara

sorry for my bad english. He does not care about melody, because he's interested in structure. His game ? Throw on the table some musical cells, any musical cells, put them side by side (first part of the sonata), and then rearranging them in another order (second part, usually more symmetrical, but not always). Remember Scarlatti said his sonatas were : "an ingenious jesting with art". here it is. Hantai has perfectly recognized (please read the text which goes with his 3 CDs) this structural nature of the sonatas, which I have carefully studied, and which gives interesting clues about the creation of Scarlatti, who appears much more modern (repetitive music, accent on structure more than melody, use of noise, aso) than is usually thought.


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## Mandryka

Lukecash12 said:


> Of course Plato was denigrating the Greek poets when he said that


You have to remember that Plato own chosen genre was pretty poetic.

Plato's idea seems to be that the poet is like someone possessed. I can't help but think of Rimbaud -- Je est un autre.


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## maria barbara

I know that Rimbaud smoked a lot of hachich. I'm not sure about Plato. But being crazy is certainly a distinctive aspect of Scarlatti music. Is n'it the most "imprevisible" music one can think of ? The next phrase in Mozart is easily guessed ; try with Scarlatti !


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## Mandryka

Haven't got the booklets to hand I#m afraid. Just huting around on the web for them briefly (without success) I found this review of Vol. 1 of Hantai's Scarlatti on amazon.fr, which made me smile -- especially when I read your comment about Scarlatti being more modern than usually thought. I wonder what this reviewer would say if presented with something by Xenakis.



> Il m'est d'autant plus difficile de critiquer Pierre Hantai, que j'ai encore en mémoire ce récital dans une petite chapelle de Catalogne où ce même claveciniste semblait recréer pas à pas les 'Variations Goldberg'. Mais trop c'est trop, et cette interprétation outrancière de sonates de D. Scarlatti ne semble avoir d'autre but que de se faire remarquer (objectif atteint, merci la critique professionnelle!). Pourquoi grossir constamment le trait? M. Hantai rêve-t-il de casser son clavecin, comme Liszt jadis, paraît-il ses pianos? L'audition de ce CD est moins lassante qu'assommante au sens propre. Un Italien résidant à Madrid au XVIIIème siècle était-il un barbare? C'est plutôt notre époque que ce fléau menace constamment. Seule la maîtrise technique de l'interprète motive notre troisième étoile.


Anyway, booklet or none, Maria Barbara, you've made me appreciate Hantai's Scarlatti, at least in Vol 1 -- and so thank you.


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## maria barbara

Very funny indeed ! This guy hates noise... even if it's music ! The three Hantai CDs (Mirare) are great, and his interviews are most interesting. I found this on the internet :
Scarlatti est en péril, sous-estimé par mes confrères clavecinistes. Ce sont jusqu'à présent les pianistes qui l'ont servi le mieux, ont su mettre en évidence la structure des sonates. Pourtant, le piano rend peu justice à cette musique qui exploite toutes les possibilités du clavecin. Scarlatti dans ses pages les plus flamboyantes, doit sonner comme du Liszt ou du Scriabine, mais les pianistes ont tendance à en faire des miniatures. Quant aux clavecinistes, leur problème vient de leur culture du détail et du raffinement. Scarlatti n'est pas Bach. Son langage * fait de courtes cellules répétitives qui créent et alternent des couleurs et climats très variés * ne se rapproche en rien de ce qui était connu à son époque. Pour le comprendre, il faut être attentif à ces particularités structurelles, être coloriste dans l'âme.

Apart from Hantai, Pletnev on the piano or Anzellotti (accordion) are some of the "colorists" he talks about, people who have understood the structural nature of the sonatas.


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## Lukecash12

Mandryka said:


> You have to remember that Plato own chosen genre was pretty poetic.
> 
> Plato's idea seems to be that the poet is like someone possessed. I can't help but think of Rimbaud -- Je est un autre.


Hmmm... I'm not trying to get off topic and not trying to argue over something inconsequential, how silly right? Rimbaud's a good reference, btw.

Now from our friend maria:



> I know that Rimbaud smoked a lot of hachich. I'm not sure about Plato. But being crazy is certainly a distinctive aspect of Scarlatti music. Is n'it the most "imprevisible" music one can think of ? The next phrase in Mozart is easily guessed ; try with Scarlatti !


I doubt Plato even knew what hashish was unless he was pretty well read, as hashish comes from the middle east. I'm sure we all know about Shakespeare's hash pipes, it wouldn't be surprising if Scarlatti did something like that to improve his creativity, I mean it wasn't long ago that cocaine was sold in tonics. People back then had an open attitude towards a lot of things like that, probably even to a bad extent because they didn't have the means to understand the risks involved with everything.

Regardless, Scarlatti demonstrated an endless imagination akin to Bach, except that they mastered different forms.


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## maria barbara

Have you had a look at the thread "Bach and Scarlatti" ?


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> Very funny indeed ! This guy hates noise... even if it's music ! The three Hantai CDs (Mirare) are great, and his interviews are most interesting. I found this on the internet :
> Scarlatti est en péril, sous-estimé par mes confrères clavecinistes. Ce sont jusqu'à présent les pianistes qui l'ont servi le mieux, ont su mettre en évidence la structure des sonates. Pourtant, le piano rend peu justice à cette musique qui exploite toutes les possibilités du clavecin. Scarlatti dans ses pages les plus flamboyantes, doit sonner comme du Liszt ou du Scriabine, mais les pianistes ont tendance à en faire des miniatures. Quant aux clavecinistes, leur problème vient de leur culture du détail et du raffinement. Scarlatti n'est pas Bach. Son langage * fait de courtes cellules répétitives qui créent et alternent des couleurs et climats très variés * ne se rapproche en rien de ce qui était connu à son époque. Pour le comprendre, il faut être attentif à ces particularités structurelles, être coloriste dans l'âme.
> 
> Apart from Hantai, Pletnev on the piano or Anzellotti (accordion) are some of the "colorists" he talks about, people who have understood the structural nature of the sonatas.


I know this may sound stupid, but when I think of repetitive cells creating varied colours, the example that I can't get out of my head is Schubert D850, the variations. Admittedly the cell is hardly short! But the point I want to make is that a good pianist can pull it off because of the timbral possibilities of the piano.

Listening this evening to Hantai vol 3, I can hear those small cells being repeated. But I don't always hear them producing alternate varied colours and "climats" - at least not in the same sonata. Each repetition of has the same colour - unless I'm being deaf. Sometimes I can hear what Hantaï says, because of changes in the counterpoint.

I keep thinking someone who's a colourist in their soul would chose clavichord or piano.


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## ribonucleic

I'm perfectly happy listening to Bach on piano but for Scarlatti it has to be harpsichord.

Between the complete sets, Ross is preferable to Belder - who is recorded too distantly.

But my go-to guy is Staier.


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## maria barbara

If one wants a complete and homogenous corpus, Scott Ross is the only good address, and it's true that this music has been created for the harpsichord and through the harpsichord. I mean : some crazy sounds can only be obtained with that instrument, which, furthermore, has a very special gift for imitation. Guitar, organ, human voice, all sorts of awful noises and... angel's whisperings - all that is almost unreachable for the piano or other modern instruments. But some pianists have nonetheless made beautiful things (Horowitz, Pogorelich, Pletnev...), even if the "oily" and soft ("bourgeois") nature of the piano' sound keeps it from the wild places where the harpsichord can lead you to.


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## Mandryka

I wonder what you think of Lena Jacobson's Scarlatti on youtube.

Christian Zacharias made some Scarlatti recordings on modern piano quite early in his career. At that time, he was a very bold pianist - his Mozart concertos have some special things - added sounds, synthesizers & co. There are some crazy piano noises in the recordings. But he never approaches the craziness of Lena Jacobson.

Zacharias even produced a CD of the same Scarlatti sonata played over 20 times (different live occasions - I haven't heard it.)

Joanna Macgregor used to talk about the affinity she saw between Scarlatti sonatas and Cage's sonatas. As far as I know no one plays Scarlatti on a prepared piano.


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## maria barbara

Sure, Zacharias is a great Scarlatti fan, and his record of K55 (I think, only "rappels", bis) is very interesting because it shows an evolution overs the years (30 I guess). He played it very fast in the beginnning and then slowly found the right tempo. Lena Jacobson plays very fast and puts on the table the question of Scarlatti's virtuosity. In my opinion, Scarlatti does not ask for mere virtuosity (sort of "waouw, incredible"), but for a perfect technics (see Pletnev) allied a strong sense of colouring and contrasting of the small musical cells.
The relation of Scarlatti music with Cage, Xenakis and Glass could be the subject of another thread...


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## Mandryka

Someone comments on youtube that Lena Jacobson makes K435 sound like Scarlatti Khoai, and they're right!


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## maria barbara

Khoai ? what's that ?


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## Mandryka

maria barbara said:


> Khoai ? what's that ?


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## satoru

Hi,

Anybody likes Clara Haskil? I admire her, and here is her Scarlatti! Although, the recording quality is not that great, you can appreciate her style. How do you think?


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## maria barbara

Sure : Haskill, Marcelle Meyer and befor them Wanda Landowska are the great scarlattian priestesses. One can add Violet Gordon Woodhouse, who was introduced to Scarlatti by the rich dilettante Sacheverell Sitwell (who published one of the first studies on Scarlatti : A background for Domenico Scarlatti, 1935). Here is Violet :







In fact, Scarlatti owes his glory to women : Maria Barbara, queen of Spain, first of all, and then lots of ladies in the XXth century : is his music feminine ?


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## hpowders

satoru said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anybody likes Clara Haskil? I admire her, and here is her Scarlatti! Although, the recording quality is not that great, you can appreciate her style. How do you think?


Yes! Clara Haskil was an excellent Beethoven and Mozart interpreter. Her performances at the Salzburg Festival were highlights of the season.


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## Albert7

Scott Ross seems to be the master of this although I am going to try Naxos and Brilliant cycles too.


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## Peter Gibaloff

Scarlatti - Ivo Pogorelich 

I am from Swiss, He is Croatian but he is The Artist


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## aajj

The Clara Haskil performance above is excellent. She is marvelous for Mozart as well. 
I've also heard outstanding recordings by Schiff and Michelangeli.


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## tdc

For the Scarlatti Sonatas on harpsichord I like Igor Kipnis.






There are other performers that sound faster and more precise in their playing, but what I like about Kipnis is he has such a good sense of dynamics (ie.speed/phrasing) his playing doesn't suffer from sounding mechanical and monotonous after a while as some other performers often do.

Scott Ross is also very good.


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## beetzart

I love Scarlatti. Every sonata is a gem, I haven't come across a bad one yet. Some of his discord harmonics are beyond even what Bach attempted. I have also noticed that in some sonatas he introduces a melody that may last for 3/4 bars then it just disappears as quick as it arose. Vastly ahead of his time.


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## Pugg

beetzart said:


> I love Scarlatti. Every sonata is a gem, I haven't come across a bad one yet. Some of his discord harmonics are beyond even what Bach attempted. I have also noticed that in some sonatas he introduces a melody that may last for 3/4 bars then it just disappears as quick as it arose. Vastly ahead of his time.


You mean all the 555 ?


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## Mandryka

beetzart said:


> I love Scarlatti. Every sonata is a gem, I haven't come across a bad one yet. Some of his discord harmonics are beyond even what Bach attempted. I have also noticed that in some sonatas he introduces a melody that may last for 3/4 bars then it just disappears as quick as it arose. Vastly ahead of his time.


Can we have some examples of these things, the harmonies, the disappearing tunes? I expect you're right but it would be nice to hear what you hear.


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## EdwardBast

Mandryka said:


> Can we have some examples of these things, *the harmonies*, the disappearing tunes? I expect you're right but it would be nice to hear what you hear.


beetzart might have been referring to the use of acciacatura (sp?), meaning "crushed" grace notes where (multiple) grace notes sound in a big crunch with their resolutions before being released to leave the chord tones. Technically, these aren't really harmonies, but combination of harmonic and nonharmonic tones. In any case, a startling effect.


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## lextune

Scarlatti's Sonatas will also modulate to rather remote keys at times. He was ahead of his time with many his keyboard exploits.


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## hpowders

Pierre Hantaï is the best I've ever performing Scarlatti on harpsichord.

Incredible virtuosity that just happens to be very musical.


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## Pugg

lextune said:


> Scarlatti's Sonatas will also modulate to rather remote keys at times. He was ahead of his time with many his keyboard exploits.


Not so strange, considering he's wroth 555 of them.


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## Animal the Drummer

EdwardBast said:


> beetzart might have been referring to the use of acciacatura (sp?), meaning "crushed" grace notes where (multiple) grace notes sound in a big crunch with their resolutions before being released to leave the chord tones. Technically, these aren't really harmonies, but combination of harmonic and nonharmonic tones. In any case, a startling effect.


Perhaps, but there definitely are some startling harmonies in Scarlatti here and there. Try the Sonata in A minor K175 which repeats a real note cluster in the left hand in its first couple of bars.


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## Bettina

Animal the Drummer said:


> Perhaps, but there definitely are some startling harmonies in Scarlatti here and there. Try the Sonata in A minor K175 which repeats a real note cluster in the left hand in its first couple of bars.


Yes, Scarlatti's use of dissonance is sometimes quite bold and dramatic, as you point out with regard to K175.

Another striking example can be found at the beginning of the Sonata in A Major, K101. It opens with leaps of a major seventh in the left hand.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Yes, Scarlatti's use of dissonance is sometimes quite bold and dramatic, as you point out with regard to K175.
> 
> Another striking example can be found at the beginning of the Sonata in A Major, K101. It opens with leaps of a major seventh in the left hand.


This is true. Can't argue. Some of the sonatas sound daring, almost modernistic.


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> Yes, Scarlatti's use of dissonance is sometimes quite bold and dramatic, as you point out with regard to K175.
> 
> Another striking example can be found at the beginning of the Sonata in A Major, K101. It opens with leaps of a major seventh in the left hand.


Who's playing on this video Bettina?
Can't play it in my neck of the woods.


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## Bettina

Pugg said:


> Who's playing on this video Bettina?
> Can't play it in my neck of the woods.


The pianist is Carlo Grante. I've read that he's currently working on recording the complete Scarlatti sonatas--he's already done about 200 of them. Almost halfway through!


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> The pianist is Carlo Grante. I've read that he's currently working on recording the complete Scarlatti sonatas--he's already done about 200 of them. Almost halfway through!


Thank you very much, so strange if I go to You tube and put his name in search I get him , if I use yours it does't work....
Anyway I am going to explore them. :tiphat:


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## starthrower

Just getting started with Scarlatti. Going with the Pieter-Jan Belder recordings on Brilliant Classics for hapsichord. And I have some piano versions by Marcelle Meyer. I can understand the piano preference for clarity and touch, but so far I'm enjoying harpsichord more than piano. But it depends on the recording.

Somebody uploaded an Argerich video of this sonata, but I prefer this live performance of the same piece. Bigger, fuller sound.


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## Guest

Overall, my favorite performances are by Yevgeny Sudbin--he has 2 volumes on BIS at the the moment. Other enjoyable ones are by Pletnev, Pogorelich, and the above-mentioned Grante, who plays them on a Bosendorfer Imperial Grand!

For those of you who play them, which ones would not be too hard for an intermediate pianist? I prefer minor keys. 

I've posted this before, but here is an interesting video about Sudbin and Scarlatti:


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## Animal the Drummer

I prefer Sudbin's earlier CD. His newer one contains some staggering playing but touches the music up in places (as in the first sonata in that video above), something I've noticed in one or two other recent Scarlatti recordings. I don't know whether doing this reflects performance practice in Scarlatti's time or not, but it can be taken too far and for my money he does that once or twice on the new CD. I'd mind less in a live concert, but it isn't what I want in recordings I'd be hoping to play numerous times.


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## Guest

Animal the Drummer said:


> I prefer Sudbin's earlier CD. His newer one contains some staggering playing but touches the music up in places (as in the first sonata in that video above), something I've noticed in one or two other recent Scarlatti recordings. I don't know whether doing this reflects performance practice in Scarlatti's time or not, but it can be taken too far and for my money he does that once or twice on the new CD. I'd mind less in a live concert, but it isn't what I want in recordings I'd be hoping to play numerous times.


That's understandable. I enjoy the fact that he takes advantage of the resources of a modern grand. Does he take too many liberties with the music in the process? I guess that's debateable! For me, he doesn't. If he made them sound like Godowsky transcriptions, then that might be a different story!


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## Bettina

Kontrapunctus said:


> For those of you who play them, which ones would not be too hard for an intermediate pianist? I prefer minor keys.


Thanks for the video and the suggestions for good Scarlatti recordings.

If you're interested in learning a Scarlatti sonata, I recommend the one in D minor, K32.

It's a good introduction to playing Scarlatti. It's one of his easier sonatas, but it's nevertheless quite lovely and harmonically rich. Its rhythmic patterns are graceful and flowing, with lots of variety. Some of it is in two-part counterpoint, while other sections use a homophonic texture.


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## Pugg

Kontrapunctus said:


> Overall, my favorite performances are by Yevgeny Sudbin--he has 2 volumes on BIS at the the moment. Other enjoyable ones are by Pletnev, Pogorelich, and the above-mentioned Grante, who plays them on a Bosendorfer Imperial Grand!
> 
> For those of you who play them, which ones would not be too hard for an intermediate pianist? I prefer minor keys.
> 
> I've posted this before, but here is an interesting video about Sudbin and Scarlatti:


In my top 10 list from last year....:clap:


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## Guest

Bettina said:


> Thanks for the video and the suggestions for good Scarlatti recordings.
> 
> If you're interested in learning a Scarlatti sonata, I recommend the one in D minor, K32.
> 
> It's a good introduction to playing Scarlatti. It's one of his easier sonatas, but it's nevertheless quite lovely and harmonically rich. Its rhythmic patterns are graceful and flowing, with lots of variety. Some of it is in two-part counterpoint, while other sections use a homophonic texture.


Thanks. I'm aware of that one. I'd like a fast easy one, though!


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## Animal the Drummer

Kontrapunctus said:


> That's understandable. I enjoy the fact that he takes advantage of the resources of a modern grand. Does he take too many liberties with the music in the process? I guess that's debateable! For me, he doesn't. If he made them sound like Godowsky transcriptions, then that might be a different story!


Interesting post and there's nothing in it with which I would or could directly take issue. The comparison I find myself making more often though is with Mozart concertos and the decoration which soloists are now expected to apply to them in places. A degree of discretion seems _de rigueur_ there, and by that kind of standard - not the much freer one by which Godowsky operated, perfectly reasonably - my own view is that Sudbin does somewhat overdo it. But _Vive la différence_!


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## Animal the Drummer

Kontrapunctus said:


> Thanks. I'm aware of that one. I'd like a fast easy one, though!


There is a collection entitled "12 Easy Scarlatti sonatas" edited by Alfred Mirovich. I don't know what that includes, but it sounds as though some of its contents might meet your needs.


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## hpowders

Air said:


> One of the most fascinating but gargantuan bodies of work is Domenico Scarlatti's set of 555 keyboard sonatas. When I first began exploring Scarlatti, I had a lot of doubts, but soon I discovered that my fears were for nothing. In fact, as Chopin once noted, Scarlatti's style can be more likened to Mozart than to Bach. It dances, it's joyful, it's rhythmically complex, but it's always clear as crystal. His rapid rhythms and love of tonal modes always makes his works a joy to hear, but I love Scarlatti for very different reasons than I love Bach.
> 
> Though his works had a major impact on the development of the classical era and the piano works of Clementi, Mozart, and even Beethoven, Scarlatti began to fall out of fashion in the Romantic era, which was further accelerated by the revival of Bach. However, Chopin, who was a Scarlatti enthusiast, predicted that "the day will come when Scarlatti's music will often be played at concerts and that audiences will appreciate and enjoy it". Chopin was right, but it was not until the mid-20th century that this began to happen. Vladimir Horowitz was the most famous Scarlatti exponent of his era who played a handful of the sonatas as romantic-style miniatures in his concerts. Another great exponent was Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, whose clear, calculated style brings out the best of these jewels. Today, we are seeing an even more increased interest in Scarlatti, with top-notch recordings from pianists like Perahia to Pogorelich to Subdin. There has also been a notable development in HIP Scarlatti, where pianists like Scott Ross have picked up the work of Kirkpatrick and recorded all 555 of Scarlatti sonatas, a supreme accomplishment.
> 
> The truth is I personally only know Scarlatti through the various recordings I have by Horowitz and Michelangeli. Though this maybe a very narrow representation of his entire oeuvre, I'll admit that I've loved every ounce of it!
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to further explore the 555 sonatas and share the love for one of the greatest keyboard composers of all time who is wrongfully not as recognized as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, and Prokofiev in his contribution to solo piano literature.


I don't know if you are still posting here but Pierre Hantaï has a terrific series of virtuosic Scarlatti Sonata performances on harpsichord.


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## Pugg

Look Bettina, at Amazon for almost nothing.


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## Guest

Animal the Drummer said:


> There is a collection entitled "12 Easy Scarlatti sonatas" edited by Alfred Mirovich. I don't know what that includes, but it sounds as though some of its contents might meet your needs.


Thank you--I'll check it out.


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## JohnD

I'm listening to the Pogorelich CD that wingracer mentioned in this thread's second post and am loving it!


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## Pugg

​I am listening these right now, wonderful.


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## starthrower

^^^
I bought his Schubert sonatas, but I'm not sure if I like Schubert? Maybe I need another 20 years of mellowing?


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## Heliogabo

Zacharias, Horowitz and Pogorelich are my choices, and Scott Ross for a harpsichord performance.


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## Pugg

starthrower said:


> ^^^
> I bought his Schubert sonatas, but I'm not sure if I like Schubert? Maybe I need another 20 years of mellowing?


And how about his piano playing?


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## hpowders

Heliogabo said:


> Zacharias, Horowitz and Pogorelich are my choices, and Scott Ross for a harpsichord performance.


I grew up with Horowitz/Scarlatti. I've never heard anyone on piano do it better.

For harpsichord performances, the Frenchman, Pierre Hantaï is dazzling!


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## Heliogabo

hpowders said:


> I grew up with Horowitz/Scarlatti. I've never heard anyone on piano do it better.
> 
> For harpsichord performances, the Frenchman, Pierre Hantaï is dazzling!


Yes, Horowitz infuses some deep feeling into this sonatas that is unique, not to mention his technical qualities.
I should try Hantaï on this, I usually like his playing. Thanks!


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## Nate Miller

I've been playing through some of the sonatas lately. I'm going to pick up about a handful this spring. At the moment I'm playing K.208 and K.209

I'm playing a transcription by the French guitarist Bernard Abiton. Very nice transcriptions, too. I picked these two for starters because I have recordings of both John Williams and Manuel Barrueco playing them, and they are also both in the collection of 60 sonatas for keyboard, so I have the original keyboard parts (which is always a plus when you are playing a transcription)

one thing about the guitar is that you get a sound that is closer to a harpsichord then you get with a modern piano. I like the Horowitz recordings I have a lot, and I see that people have rightly mentioned those already, but John Williams (the guitarist) playing the Scarlatti Sonatas is a real treat, if you haven't had a chance to listen to any of those yet.

here is one of th erecords I have. this is the one with K.208. It also has the "Cortege", another of my favorites.
https://www.amazon.com/Williams-Guitar-Recital-Essential-Classics/dp/B000024XBF/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1487961532&sr=8-8&keywords=john+williams+scarlatti

you can pick up a copy for 32 cents


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## Vaneyes

Update for my #25 post. Since then (2011), I've added CDs from Babayan, MacGregor, Demidenko (2), Weissenberg, Meyer, and another Sudbin. :tiphat:


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## jegreenwood

Just ordered the Pletnev (2 discs $8.00 plus shipping) and Zacharias (4 discs $15 plus shipping) from MDT.


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## JB Lully

Pletnev is fabulous.


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## Pugg

JB Lully said:


> Pletnev is fabulous.


If you like it and you are happy....that's the main thing.
( But Sudbin playing is also very good, to name just one.)


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## Omicron9

I'm sure it's been said, but the Scott Ross complete box set is mandatory here. And the price has really dropped; treat yourself!


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## Pugg

Omicron9 said:


> I'm sure it's been said, but the Scott Ross complete box set is mandatory here. And the price has really dropped; treat yourself!


You would have to like his playing though.


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## Animal the Drummer

...and want to listen to all that music on harpsichord. I have no problem at all with the harpsichord, but to me that would be too much of a good thing.


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## Pugg

Animal the Drummer said:


> ...and want to listen to all that music on harpsichord. I have no problem at all with the harpsichord, but to me that would be too much of a good thing.


That would be a real problem.


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## jegreenwood

Animal the Drummer said:


> ...and want to listen to all that music on harpsichord. I have no problem at all with the harpsichord, but to me that would be too much of a good thing.


I tend to agree. I look at that box from time to time, but I can't pull the trigger. I have a three disc (56 sonatas) set drawn from the box. I would love to have another 3 - 5 discs, but not 30.

What I would really love is for Warners to add the box set to Tidal.


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## Omicron9

jegreenwood said:


> I tend to agree. I look at that box from time to time, but I can't pull the trigger. I have a three disc (56 sonatas) set drawn from the box. I would love to have another 3 - 5 discs, but not 30.
> 
> What I would really love is for Warners to add the box set to Tidal.


All understood. If there was a full set of the 555 on piano, that would be wondrous. Is there such a beast and I've just missed it?

Regards,
-09


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## jegreenwood

Not complete yet.

http://www.carlogrante.com/music


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## Animal the Drummer

Naxos are building towards one, using mainly younger pianists and giving them one CD each.


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## Pugg

Animal the Drummer said:


> Naxos are building towards one, using mainly younger pianists and giving them one CD each.


They did the same with the Strauss family , if you wait a bit, you can get them for a much cheaper price all together.


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## Omicron9

Ah, totally cool; thank you!

I am very much enjoying the Scott Ross box, but a complete version on piano would be a thing of beauty. One big reason I bought the Ross was because it was (as far as I knew) the only complete box. 

-09


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## jegreenwood

Omicron9 said:


> Ah, totally cool; thank you!
> 
> I am very much enjoying the Scott Ross box, but a complete version on piano would be a thing of beauty. One big reason I bought the Ross was because it was (as far as I knew) the only complete box.
> 
> -09


http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14224/

With a comparison to the Ross box. (Ross wins by a nose.)


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## Omicron9

jegreenwood said:


> http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-14224/
> 
> With a comparison to the Ross box. (Ross wins by a nose.)


Thanks for this, jegreenwood; I'd not heard of it. Unfortunate that the cycle is all fortepiano; I've never been able to listen to that instrument for very long at a time. If only it were on modern piano....

Regards,
-09


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## premont

Omicron9 said:


> Thanks for this, jegreenwood; I'd not heard of it. Unfortunate that the cycle is all fortepiano; I've never been able to listen to that instrument for very long at a time. If only it were on modern piano....
> 
> Regards,
> -09


Belder plays only a few of the sonatas on fortepiano.


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## hpowders

I prefer Scarlatti on harpsichord. Spikier than the anachronistic muddy piano.


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## Pugg

Omicron9 said:


> Ah, totally cool; thank you!
> 
> I am very much enjoying the Scott Ross box, but a complete version on piano would be a thing of beauty. One big reason I bought the Ross was because it was (as far as I knew) the only complete box.
> 
> -09


Naxos is very consistent, so do not fear they won't complete it.


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## Omicron9

Pugg said:


> Naxos is very consistent, so do not fear they won't complete it.


Thanks, Pugg. I hope so; I've given up on their issuing a box set of the excellent and highly recommended Weiss lute sonatas (Barto). And as such, have been buying each release one-by-one. I think the latest is Vol. 11.

Thanks again,
-09


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## jegreenwood

Omicron9 said:


> Thanks, Pugg. I hope so; I've given up on their issuing a box set of the excellent and highly recommended Weiss lute sonatas (Barto). And as such, have been buying each release one-by-one. I think the latest is Vol. 11.
> 
> Thanks again,
> -09


Do you have the Cardin set on Brilliant? I have that and the first three volumes of Barto. I also have a Tidal playlist with the remaining discs.

note - I think I mentioned this somewhere before on this site - pardon if I'm repeating myself.


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## jegreenwood

So my Pletnev and Zacharias sets arrived. Disc 4 of the Zacharias set consists of 20 separate concert recordings of K 55. Has anyone ever actually listened to that beginning to end?

For the record, even if I treat this as an odd bonus disc, the price for the box set - about $14.50 - is still quite reasonable.


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## Blancrocher

jegreenwood said:


> So my Pletnev and Zacharias sets arrived. Disc 4 of the Zacharias set consists of 20 separate concert recordings of K 55. Has anyone ever actually listened to that beginning to end?
> 
> For the record, even if I treat this as an odd bonus disc, the price for the box set - about $14.50 - is still quite reasonable.


I bought that set earlier this year and also recommend it highly-I'd previously heard and enjoyed the 33 studio recordings, which are classic, but the mixed live album (disk 3) was new to me and it may be my favorite of the bunch. But I still haven't listened to the K.55 album--though if this is a dare maybe I will!


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## jegreenwood

jegreenwood said:


> So my Pletnev and Zacharias sets arrived. Disc 4 of the Zacharias set consists of 20 separate concert recordings of K 55. Has anyone ever actually listened to that beginning to end?
> 
> For the record, even if I treat this as an odd bonus disc, the price for the box set - about $14.50 - is still quite reasonable.


I've been listening to the two pianists. On first acquaintance I prefer Zacharias, but that may be because Pletnev's interpretations generally differ more from some imprint versions I have of certain sonatas. I will continue to listen.


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## Pugg

Omicron9 said:


> Thanks, Pugg. I hope so; I've given up on their issuing a box set of the excellent and highly recommended Weiss lute sonatas (Barto). And as such, have been buying each release one-by-one. I think the latest is Vol. 11.
> 
> Thanks again,
> -09


Volume 18 is out now played by: Sergio Monteiro, Piano


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## JeffD

I am learning mandolin transcriptions of Scarlatti K87 and K430. Mandolin arrangements by Victor Kioulaphides.

Listening to the piano to learn the mandolin. :lol:


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## Pugg

JeffD said:


> I am learning mandolin transcriptions of Scarlatti K87 and K430. Mandolin arrangements by Victor Kioulaphides.
> 
> Listening to the piano to learn the mandolin. :lol:


You should record it and post for us all to hear.


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## JeffD

Pugg said:


> You should record it and post for us all to hear.


Tears shed over answered prayers!


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## Pugg

JeffD said:


> Tears shed over answered prayers!


One can always try.


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## BYOH

Hi guys, 
the first post of this thread says that Chopin was really enthusiastic about Scarlatti sonatas.. I looked in many books (including the famous Eigeldinger one) and websites... but i have not found anything about it.. did the guy who started the topic invent it (including the 'quotes' by Chopin)? Or where can I find information about it? 
Thanks, sorry if i Made mistakes with the language


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## JeffD

Pugg said:


> One can always try.


Actually someone usually records the performance at the end of the festival (Festival of Mandolin Chamber Music) and I will link to the youtube.


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## Mandryka

L


BYOH said:


> Hi guys,
> the first post of this thread says that Chopin was really enthusiastic about Scarlatti sonatas.. I looked in many books (including the famous Eigeldinger one) and websites... but i have not found anything about it.. did the guy who started the topic invent it (including the 'quotes' by Chopin)? Or where can I find information about it?
> Thanks, sorry if i Made mistakes with the language


I checked in W. Dean Sutcliffe's book on Scarlatti and there's no reference to an influence in Chopin.


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## Bettina

BYOH said:


> Hi guys,
> the first post of this thread says that Chopin was really enthusiastic about Scarlatti sonatas.. I looked in many books (including the famous Eigeldinger one) and websites... but i have not found anything about it.. did the guy who started the topic invent it (including the 'quotes' by Chopin)? Or where can I find information about it?
> Thanks, sorry if i Made mistakes with the language


Chopin (allegedly) said that he loved Scarlatti's music and often taught it to his students. Here's the citation: https://books.google.com/books?id=C...=onepage&q=chopin scarlatti influence&f=false, on the bottom of page 8 of this book. I'm not sure how reliable this source is, so please do take it with a grain of salt!


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## hpowders

I wonder what Chopin thought about playing Scarlatti on Harpsichord?


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> Chopin (allegedly) said that he loved Scarlatti's music and often taught it to his students. Here's the citation: https://books.google.com/books?id=C...=onepage&q=chopin scarlatti influence&f=false, on the bottom of page 8 of this book. I'm not sure how reliable this source is, so please do take it with a grain of salt!


We are not going to sue you, I'll make sure of that.


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## Animal the Drummer

I'd be surprised if that quote weren't genuine. I've seen it repeated so often from so many sources and I can't imagine they'd all go for it if it were of doubtful provenance.


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## Pugg

Animal the Drummer said:


> I'd be surprised if that quote weren't genuine. I've seen it repeated so often from so many sources and I can't imagine they'd all go for it if it were of doubtful provenance.


But without the internet you wouldn't have seen it, anyone can writ anything on the net nowadays .


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## Animal the Drummer

That first bit is not true, mijnheer. I've been reading books and articles about Chopin for half a century, long before going online, and I remember reading about his approbation of Scarlatti (and Mozart) early on.


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## Mandryka

I guess it's possible that Chopin could have known about some Scarlatti sonatas through Clementi's books. I'm not sure what we know about Chopin's book collection.

Scarlatti's early reception is interesting, I think he was particularly popular amongst amateurs in England (think those things that Charles Avison made with Scarlatti's tunes, and Clementi was a Brit of course.)


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## Joe Kavalier

Scarlatti enthusiasts: I need your help!

I've recently stumbled upon the treasure that is Scarlatti's Sonata in F Major K.438/L.381/P.467 and it's been running through my head on a loop for several days now. The trouble is I can't seem to find any piano recordings of this sonata that I can buy for my listening pleasure. I've found plenty of harpsichord recordings, but none for piano.

Please, please, please tell me that this is down to my poor Google skills and not the fact that there are no piano recordings of this particular sonata. I don't think I could bear that.


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## wkasimer

Joe Kavalier said:


> Scarlatti enthusiasts: I need your help!
> 
> I've recently stumbled upon the treasure that is Scarlatti's Sonata in F Major K.438/L.381/P.467 and it's been running through my head on a loop for several days now. The trouble is I can't seem to find any piano recordings of this sonata that I can buy for my listening pleasure. I've found plenty of harpsichord recordings, but none for piano.
> 
> Please, please, please tell me that this is down to my poor Google skills and not the fact that there are no piano recordings of this particular sonata. I don't think I could bear that.


Challenge accepted:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JGSI51W


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## Pugg

Joe Kavalier said:


> Scarlatti enthusiasts: I need your help!
> 
> I've recently stumbled upon the treasure that is Scarlatti's Sonata in F Major K.438/L.381/P.467 and it's been running through my head on a loop for several days now. The trouble is I can't seem to find any piano recordings of this sonata that I can buy for my listening pleasure. I've found plenty of harpsichord recordings, but none for piano.
> 
> Please, please, please tell me that this is down to my poor Google skills and not the fact that there are no piano recordings of this particular sonata. I don't think I could bear that.


The last two I can also recommend you:

Scarlatti: Piano Sonatas (Volume 1) Zacharias 381/467
On Emi or now on Wraner


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## Joe Kavalier

wkasimer said:


> Challenge accepted:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JGSI51W
> 
> View attachment 95213


Thank you so much, wkasimer! You're a lifesaver!



Pugg said:


> The last two I can also recommend you:
> 
> Scarlatti: Piano Sonatas (Volume 1) Zacharias 381/467
> On Emi or now on Wraner


Thanks, Pugg! Those are great too. The rich wealth of Scarlatti's sonatas never ceases to amaze me.


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## Vaneyes

Terrific performance at YT--Wonny Seongwon Park. So much talent in the world, much of which we'll never enjoy with a nice sound recording. Wonny's choice of tempo, I find glorious. Cheers! :tiphat:






Related (translation required):

http://palaissommer.de/programm/wonny-seongwon-park-klaviernacht/


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## Larkenfield

In the event that the great Scarlatti Sonatas played by Dubravka Tomšic haven't been mentioned... She and Horowitz are personal favorites and I believe that both know how to bring out something idiomatic in these jewel-like masterpieces, sometimes with a guitar feel, which I consider appropriate for works written in Spain.

https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-World-famous-Sonatas-Vienna-Master/dp/B00092HMH8/ref=pd_cp_15_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00092HMH8&pd_rd_r=0V70H6PPKYZV0XHRS33C&pd_rd_w=dg0dP&pd_rd_wg=jOuZl&psc=1&refRID=0V70H6PPKYZV0XHRS33C


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## Vaneyes

Larkenfield said:


> In the event that the great *Scarlatti Sonatas played by Dubravka Tomšic *haven't been mentioned... She and Horowitz are personal favorites and I believe that both know how to bring out something idiomatic in these jewel-like masterpieces, sometimes with a guitar feel, which I consider appropriate for works written in Spain.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Wo...rd_wg=jOuZl&psc=1&refRID=0V70H6PPKYZV0XHRS33C


Good call. I've had this version for years. :tiphat:


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## Holden4th

As a new member of this forum I marked all posts as read and started from there. I've been lazy and have not read the whole thread but would like to mention some favourite performances.

Another tick for Tomsic, a much underrated pianist (You have to hear her Waldstein).

Also add
Horowitz
Sergei Babayan
Sudbin
Perahia
Gilels
Mordecai Shehori
Marcelle Meyer
Zacharias (on EMI)
Haskil

If I had to name a favourite, Babayan would win hands down. Stunning playing in stunning sound.


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## Selby

I have been listening to a lot Scarlatti for piano over the past couple of weeks. I have been mixing selections with Chopin nocturnes and Sorabji études and have found the experience highly rewarding.

I have been feeling enthusiastic about recordings by Horowitz, Schiff, and Hewitt.
I have been feeling let down by recordings of Pogorelich and Perahia.

I want to hear Sudbin and Grante. I've loved the YT videos I've watched of Grante but am unsure that I want to invest that much cash into his recordings.


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## Selby

I have been listening to a lot Scarlatti for piano over the past couple of weeks. I have been mixing selections with Chopin nocturnes and Sorabji études and have found the experience highly rewarding.

I have been feeling enthusiastic about recordings by Horowitz, Schiff, and Hewitt.
I have been not been feeling enthusiastic about recordings by Pogorelich and Perahia.

I want to hear Sudbin and Grante. I've loved the YT videos I've watched of Grante but am unsure that I want to invest that much cash into his recordings.


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## Pugg

> I have been feeling let down by recordings of Pogorelich


I am wondering: why?


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## Mandryka

Holden4th said:


> As a new member of this forum I marked all posts as read and started from there. I've been lazy and have not read the whole thread but would like to mention some favourite performances.
> 
> Another tick for Tomsic, a much underrated pianist (You have to hear her Waldstein).
> 
> Also add
> Horowitz
> Sergei Babayan
> Sudbin
> Perahia
> Gilels
> Mordecai Shehori
> Marcelle Meyer
> Zacharias (on EMI)
> Haskil
> 
> If I had to name a favourite, Babayan would win hands down. Stunning playing in stunning sound.


I'd be quite curious to know what you make of Anthony da Bonaventura, I'm not enough of a piano lover to make an informed judgement, but friends of mine who like piano rate what he does highly. There's an LP and a CD, the LP rather better I'd say, I can let you have a transfer privately if you want.


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## Mandryka

I listened to two Scarlatti recordings this week, both by Pierre Hantaï, his first for Astrée, and his last, Vol 5 for Mirrare. The first is great fun because it is so colourful, no one I know has given Scarlatti such colour. There's an ancient tradition of colourful Spanish keyboard music - Cabezon wrote for "tecla, arpa e vihuela" - and this early work of Hantaï seems to place Scarlatti in that tradition. It is also passionate, flamboyant. Skip Sempé talks about how some of the sonatas are about Duende, the Spanish concept of inspired flamboyant creativity which Lorca was so interested in. Well Duende is the right concept for Hantaï's Astrée recording.

Volume 5 seemed much less interesting to me I'm afraid.


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## Holden4th

Mandryka said:


> I'd be quite curious to know what you make of Anthony da Bonaventura, I'm not enough of a piano lover to make an informed judgement, but friends of mine who like piano rate what he does highly. There's an LP and a CD, the LP rather better I'd say, I can let you have a transfer privately if you want.


I'm listening to him now - the recording is on Centaur. I'll report back. I'm also interested in the private transfer. What I'm hearing of the Centaur sounds somewhat heavy handed, a bit stilted maybe as if he's not that in tune with this music. I have other Bonaventura recordings that are excellent.


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## Mandryka

Holden4th said:


> I'm listening to him now - the recording is on Centaur. I'll report back. I'm also interested in the private transfer. What I'm hearing of the Centaur sounds somewhat heavy handed, a bit stilted maybe as if he's not that in tune with this music. I have other Bonaventura recordings that are excellent.


I'll upload it tomorrow, I'll also let you have his Debussy études, which I rather like. I think he lost something between the LP (Vox?) and the Centaur.


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## hpowders

Kenneth Weiss has a nice Scarlatti Sonata CD, as it should be performed, on harpsichord.


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## CDs

Just picked up this Perahia CD. So good!
I also have one of Yevgeny Sudbin Scarlatti's CD. Which is also great!


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## Larkenfield

The Grante performance is far too legato for my taste, disempowering the spirit of Scarlatti's intentions, IMO, though technically it is performed well and with some measure of imagination. It's too nice and polite as if he's missing the point, rather than be played with more sparkle, clarity, wit, and sense of invention. I do not feel that he understands the composer or that his performance is what I would consider idiomatic of Scarlatti.


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## Pugg

CDs said:


> Just picked up this Perahia CD. So good!
> I also have one of Yevgeny Sudbin Scarlatti's CD. Which is also great!
> 
> View attachment 97754


He has two, both are fantastic.


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