# Alexander Scriabin: The Symphonies



## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Me thinking of buying this complete set of his four symphonies. Ashkenasy.

Do you approve? Or do you think this version is utter crap, if so, which other version do you suggest? Thank you.

Thoughts in general about these four symphonies appreciated, too.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

You can trust Ashkenazy, it's best recording of these I've ever heard. 

As for the works: they are worth of hearing, well written and stuff, though lack something, at least for my taste, to put them along with greatest late romantic symphonies. 1st is meant to be huge and solemn work but the choral finale sounded somewhat pretentious to me. Not because the idea was bad but because the idea was above Scriabin's skills at that time and the text he used to express the idea doesn't seem to be that good too. The 2nd is my favourite, it has quite memorable, very good final movement and the rest isn't bad either.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Bought.

Seems you're the only listener around here who understands these pieces.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Bought.
> 
> Seems you're the only listener around here who understands these pieces.


I have a recording of them but haven't listened enough in detail. I always think of Scriabin as more of a piano guy. Anyway, I think you'll like them to an extant.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2011)

violadude said:


> I have a recording of them but haven't listened enough in detail. I always think of Scriabin as more of a piano guy. Anyway, I think you'll like them to an extant.


Yeah, but I also think of Rachmaninov as a piano guy, but love his 2nd Symphony.

Honestly, I don't know that much about Scriabin - I only have 1 CD from him, all piano music. I didn't even know he wrote symphonies. You learn something new everyday.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

DrMike said:


> Yeah, but I also think of Rachmaninov as a piano guy, but love his 2nd Symphony.
> 
> Honestly, I don't know that much about Scriabin - I only have 1 CD from him, all piano music. I didn't even know he wrote symphonies. You learn something new everyday.


Well, what I meant was, his piano pieces left a better first impression on me than the symphonies, and I have been more eager to return to the former than the latter.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I have most, if not all, of Skryabin's orchestral works and although I enjoy them (Prometheus is a real hoot and I do rate his Piano Concerto) it does seem to me that his lofty ambition seemed to outstrip his overall aptitude for writing for larger forces (unlike, say, Mahler). Had he lived longer maybe it would have all suddenly coalesced (the epic Mysterium - had he completed it - would have either been laughed off the planet as being the ramblings of a crackpot or revered as a cosmic masterpiece to end them all) but I still feel that his later piano sonatas and pieces like Towards the Flame reveal the true essence of his talent and probably the genre that served him better for which he could harness his talents and realise his vision.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> I have most, if not all, of Skryabin's orchestral works and although I enjoy them (Prometheus is a real hoot and I do rate his Piano Concerto) it does seem to me that his lofty ambition seemed to outstrip his overall aptitude for writing for larger forces (unlike, say, Mahler). Had he lived longer maybe it would have all suddenly coalesced (the epic Mysterium - had he completed it - would have either been laughed off the planet as being the ramblings of a crackpot or revered as a cosmic masterpiece to end them all) but I still feel that his later piano sonatas and pieces like Towards the Flame reveal the true essence of his talent and probably the genre that served him better for which he could harness his talents and realise his vision.


Ya..that's what I was trying to say too. Thanks for saying it much better than I did  you hit the nail on the head I think.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I thank you! It took a lot out of me, that did - I think I need to lie down for a bit...


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

I have that version - it's one of my most recent CD purchases. I still haven't listened to all of the pieces on it, since I definitely have to be in a certain mood to want to hear Scriabin. But the performances of the _Poem of Ecstasy_ and the _Divine Poem_ were passionate, and the recording was first-rate.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Be sure to give us some feedback on that recording HC. I am starting to take an interest in Scriabin, but like some others here thus far have primarily explored his solo piano music.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I've only got _The Poem of Ecstasy _under Zubin Mehta on THIS disc. At first when I heard it I almost thought it should be titled _Poem of Boredom_. But now my opinion has changed totally, I really like it for the qualities that put me off at first, it's searching, vague quality, it's asking of questions rather than answering them. & there's a kind of dreamy mix of nightmare & sensuousness there, but I don't always hear that, only sometimes. It's all rather vague until he gets right to the end, gives the listener a huge over the top resolution with his "Bright Red" chord of C major.

In a word, good that you bought this up, HC. I haven't gone beyond this work in my experiences with his music yet, apart from bits of his piano output, here & there...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Will mention _Svetlanov_ and _Muti_ (now very cheap on Brilliant Classics - a big sound with a large string orchestra), whereas _Inbal_ is less involved, to my ears._ Golovanov _is extremely temperamental, but the old sound and somewhat incoherent playing style is no doubt too much for some listeners and surely they shouldn´t be the only recordings to have. Svetlanov is magnificent, but some don´t like the particular sound of Russian brass playing or the singing in the 1st Symphony.
_
Stokowski _made a rather uinteresting "Poeme de l`Extase" with Houston SO (very poor sound), whereas the one with the Czech PO is much better.

There are some good recordings of the Piano Concerto on you-tube - _Bashkirov_´s especially, I think.

Anyone interested in Scriabin should listen to the compositions by *Samuil Feinberg*, who is well represented on you-tube also. The only orchestral works seem to be piano concertos, though.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Feinberg, huh? http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD4037E45DBAB6E30

As for Scriabin's symphonies, they remind me of Tchaikovsky, actually. Raw instrumentation, incredibly charming melodies, opaque but discernible form. I think they are genius, especially the later ones, and that Scriabin holds up well compared to other great symphony writers. Sure, things can get anticlimactic and become "too much" for him to write, but I don't mind that at all, because that's how Scriabin is.

I'm also sure that since the texts relate to theosophy, that some people won't get them or see how they fit the piece of music. You know, vers la flamme was originally meant to be a large scale orchestral work, but he was short on time and had to make it into a piano piece. The text for that piece, the text for sonata 5, and the text for Prometheus make up my three favorite poemes by Scriabin.

By the way, kudos on that compliment to Dmitri Bashkirov and his recordings of the piano concerto. Those of you who enjoy perusing my Scriabin play list can find it there.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

If you want truly lush, warm sound, go with Jarvi on Chandos. Muti is good too, but it's really a moot point with the recordings being out of print and expensive. The Ashkenazy on Decca just doesn't sound as good, but it's not terrible. And it's a super cheap 2 disc set.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

starthrower said:


> If you want truly lush, warm sound, go with Jarvi on Chandos. Muti is good too, but it's really a moot point with the recordings being out of print and expensive. The Ashkenazy on Decca just doesn't sound as good, but it's not terrible. And it's a super cheap 2 disc set.


I have only started listening to Alexander Scriabin.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

starthrower said:


> If you want truly lush, warm sound, go with Jarvi on Chandos. Muti is good too, but it's really a moot point with the recordings being out of print and expensive. The Ashkenazy on Decca just doesn't sound as good, but it's not terrible. And it's a super cheap 2 disc set.


Personally for me the best .:tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

So it seems that Scrabian only composed three symphonies. Then there is the Poem of Ecstasy (aka Symphony 4) and the Poem of Fire (aka Symphony 5). Am considering getting a set, but was confused about the number of symphonies and this thread title didn't help. So, I think there are three symphonies in the narrow sense of the word.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> So it seems that Scrabian only composed three symphonies. Then there is the Poem of Ecstasy (aka Symphony 4) and the Poem of Fire (aka Symphony 5). Am considering getting a set, but was confused about the number of symphonies and this thread title didn't help. So, I think there are three symphonies in the narrow sense of the word.


Correct. His orchestral pieces are 3 symphonies, 2 symphonic poems (also called "symphonies" sometimes), 1 piano concerto, 1 short "Rêverie" and some unfinished music including the Mysterium (which was partially "realized" by another composer). 
You can find more information in his guestbook in the Composer Guestbook forums.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Also, for completists, there's an early "_Andante & Scherzo_" for strings;

and some orchestrations done by other composers:
- Gauk orchestrated a "_Symphonic Poem in d-minor_",
- Rozhdestvensky the "_Fantasia for 2 Pianos_",
- Nemtin created a version of "_Mysterium_",
- Nemtin made a series of movements for piano and orchestra based on solo piano pieces, "_Nuances_", etc.

Also, several have orchestrated some of the piano sonatas.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Fritz Kobus said:


> So it seems that Scrabian only composed three symphonies. Then there is the Poem of Ecstasy (aka Symphony 4) and the Poem of Fire (aka Symphony 5). Am considering getting a set, but was confused about the number of symphonies and this thread title didn't help. So, I think there are three symphonies in the narrow sense of the word.


Fritz - most sets (not Inbal, weirdly) have all five pieces contained therein, so it's just a case of what you want to call something; I've never referred to either "poem" as a symphony myself, it seems to be a new thing going on.

My favourite Scriabin is the early (and probably immature and atypical) Piano Concerto. Don't care, it's one of the most beautiful pieces out there by anyone!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

In my teens I was blown away by a live performaqnce of No. 3 ("Divine Poeme") by the BSO in Symphony Hall. There were no recordings so I awaited the Angel/Melodya (EMI) traversal (by Svetlanov?) to get there, and when ir did I put it on eagerly and said "Huh?" I've heard several other recordings over the years (including Ashkenazy) and still haven't found one that made it sound like misoc.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have had no experience with Scrabian before until a co-worker who is a pianist (has full sized grand piano in his living room) turned me on to him.  It is tempting to just jump right in with both feet and get this:










But I think they blew it because they have two different conductors and pianists for the symphonies and #2 looks like it is the one from the Brilliant Classics set, which I don't think can compare to Ashkenazy.



> CD11
> Symphony No.1 in E, Op.26
> Deutsches Sinfonie-Orchester, Berlin
> Vladimir Ashkenazy
> ...


Well, maybe I'll just play around listening on You Tube for a while.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Can I recommend this CD, as a Scriabin starter pack, Fritz? Ashkenazy Is unchallenged in the concerto, and the "4th & 5th Symphonies" here are fabulously intoxicating too. You'll be able to pick it up for a few of your strange currency units on Amazon, I'm sure.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

CnC Bartok said:


> Can I recommend this CD, as a Scriabin starter pack, Fritz? Ashkenazy Is unchallenged in the concerto, and the "4th & 5th Symphonies" here are fabulously intoxicating too. You'll be able to pick it up for a few of your strange currency units on Amazon, I'm sure.
> 
> View attachment 114012


Certainly a nice CD, but I might have to look for bigger sets. Also, if I can slip into my brick and mortar store, Dearborn Music, it would be great to see what is in there racks. In fact, I have an opera DVD on order with them so they should be calling me in a few days anyway.

But, keep the recommendations coming!


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

That complete works set looks great, and I'm tempted to buy it myself. However, a huge drawback is the fact that it seems to completely omit the man who is far and away the greatest pianist of Scriabin's works, Vladimir Sofronitsky. No survey of Scriabin's music is complete without giving him some attention. (Though having Horowitz and Richter on there has to be worth something, and Ashkenazy is probably my favorite of the "younger" pianists in his works).

I am a huge fan of Scriabin's piano works, but the symphonies/poems have yet to really click for me. I do like the piano concerto too. Always thought it's a damn shame that he never wrote any chamber music. I bet he coulda written a killer piano quintet or trio.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Been checking out sets of piano sonatas and this looks like a great set (more than sonatas too):


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Been checking out sets of piano sonatas and this looks like a great set (more than sonatas too):


It is a good set, tons of good music & playing. Though I often like Ponti, his Scriabin set is perhaps less convincing. Afterwards I'd supplement with further sonata recordings though - Ashkenazy's cheap twofer at least, since in the sonatas Lettberg doesn't always make them as impressive and grand as they can be.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I have that Ashkenazy set of the sonatas. It is good for sure, about all I could ask for in a full set of them, though I prefer the recordings of certain older Russians in certain specific sonatas. In particular Sofronitsky's Black Mass is one of the craziest things I've ever heard.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Muti with the Philadelphia for me. Symphony No.2 is gorgeous.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Other than some of the piano music, has anyone ever heard anything by Scriabin performed live? I can't recall ever seeing an announcement that any of the symphonies or other orchestral works would be played. Is he just another composer who lives only through recordings?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I know this is a symphony thread but figure we could broaden out a bit here. So for piano sonatas I also considered Ashkenazy, Varduhi Yeritsyan, and Taub.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm happy with my Ashkenazy set.
As far as piano, The Ponti set on Vox is a good performance, but is unusually bright in the mastering.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> Other than some of the piano music, has anyone ever heard anything by Scriabin performed live? I can't recall ever seeing an announcement that any of the symphonies or other orchestral works would be played. Is he just another composer who lives only through recordings?


As I mentioned earlier, I heard "Le Poeme Divin" back in the '60s in Symphony Hall. The BSO's then former concertmaster Richard Bergin, was always given a couple of subscription weeks with the orchestra, and the concerts were always better than you expected them be. Admittedly I was just a teenager and my taste may have been suspect, but I was mightily impressed until I started listening to recordings and decided that it was a pretty empty work.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

mbhaub said:


> Other than some of the piano music, has anyone ever heard anything by Scriabin performed live? I can't recall ever seeing an announcement that any of the symphonies or other orchestral works would be played. Is he just another composer who lives only through recordings?


During the height of my "obsession" with his music (in a positive way... I still love it, I'm just over my obsession ), I was lucky enough to find concert performances of his orchestral music not too far from home.

The first time, I heard Prometheus in Brussels (also the place where the piece was composed) with Jurowski as conductor. It was utterly fantastic.
And to my surprise, the next year I had the opportunity to go to another performance of Prometheus, again in Brussels, in the same concert hall. It was an unexpected gift from my girlfriend. This time performed by a local orchestra. It was a rather messy performance. Fortunately, the other music on the program was performed better, which included Sonata No. 7 and a staggering account of Vers La Flamme.
Last but not least, I heard both Symphony No. 1 & The Poem of Ecstasy in London with Gergiev.

Speaking of Jurowski, this is a great performance of Prometheus:


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

MarkW said:


> As I mentioned earlier, I heard "Le Poeme Divin" back in the '60s in Symphony Hall. The BSO's then former concertmaster Richard Bergin, was always given a couple of subscription weeks with the orchestra, and the concerts were always better than you expected them be. Admittedly I was just a teenager and my taste may have been suspect, but I was mightily impressed until I started listening to recordings and decided that it was a pretty empty work.


I used to like this symphony a lot and I still think there are some wonderful moments in the first movement. It is a very ambitious piece, but ultimately a tiresome ordeal. I prefer all his other orchestral pieces to Symphony no. 3 now. Maybe hearing it live provides a better experience.


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## Scrooge McDermott (8 mo ago)

Making a sweeping statement regarding virtually 3 hours of music is naive, Scriabins symphonies are absolute genius. You have to keep listening over and over and unless you're tone deaf, you'll be hooked, ask any professional classical musician or conductor.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I find Svetlanov's Scriabin recordings are the ones I return to most. For the piano works I often find Gordon Fergus-Thompson hard to beat. Scriabin in his hands seems to make more sense. His approach is balanced rather than going all out for intensity and craziness that many consider to be the main features of Scriabin's music.


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## Markbridge (Sep 28, 2014)

CnC Bartok said:


> My favourite Scriabin is the early (and probably immature and atypical) Piano Concerto. Don't care, it's one of the most beautiful pieces out there by anyone!


A kindred spirit here. I fell in love with his piano concerto the first time I heard it. Believe it or not, I actually drove three hours from eastern Connecticut to NYC to see Ashkenazy perform it! I was so hoping to get his autograph, but it was in the first part of the program and he was long gone by the end of the concert. I was young and naive, but it was fun seeing Ashkenazy in person. I believe I still have the program, sans Ashkenazy's autograph, sadly.

In so many ways, I hear sensuality in it. that may sound funny but I do. The last movement particularly. If Scriabin had continued on that same course I truly believe he would have rival Rachmaninov in popularity.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Scrooge McDermott said:


> Making a sweeping statement regarding virtually 3 hours of music is naive, Scriabins symphonies are absolute genius.


A sweeping endorsement


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## tbazar (Jan 14, 2017)

I have Scriabin's first three symphonies on vinyl conducted by Svetlanov. I love them. Scriabin is a wonderful composer and worth listening to.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I'm a huge fan of Scriabin's piano music but it's taken me longer to come around to his symphonies and orchestral works. To me, the most fascinating aspect of Scriabin's art is its liminal nature that exists somewhere in that murky twilight between late romanticism and modernism. Scriabin developed a quasi-atonal style independently of the 2nd Viennese School, yet never completely abandoned certain classical tonal or formal principles. What could've resulted in work that was "neither fish nor fowl" ended up making him a fascinating figure if just for his uniqueness in straddling that line. That, plus his mysticism and synesthesia provides a whole other dark, mysterious dimension that pushes his work towards the transcendent and otherworldly.

Yet I find these qualities harder to hear in his symphonies that seem much more indebted to the late romantic idiom, and in that idiom it's difficult not to make unfavorable comparisons with Mahler or Sibelius. However, with more listening I have been able to hear through the more cliched aspects to Scriabin's unique voice; though I still feel as if the thicker textures of symphonic music tend to obscure it, and I don't think he had the virtuosic handle on such forces compared to a Mahler, Strauss, or Wagner, so the occasional clunkiness can work against the ambitiousness of them, making them feel more pretentious than profound (Scriabin always walked that thin line anyway). However, when they hit they hit hard and stand with his best, especially Le Poème de l'extase that bears all the hallmarks of his later, more harmonically adventurous style. Though even it is so thick with undulating, ambiguous harmonies at times it feels like a swirling ball of primordial chaos that never quite coheres into any solid, it's still utterly hypnotic and powerful in the textures it is constantly creating, destroying, and recreating.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Over the past several months I've listened to nearly all of the orchestral music by recognized Russian composers born in the nineteenth century. Scriabin is easily one of my most favored Russian orchestral composers. Scriabin and Rachmaninoff were building upon several generations of fine Russian composers (beginning with Glinka). By their time, to sound Russian it was no longer necessary to employ folk music as a basis. To be sure, Rachmaninoff was influenced by Russian Orthodox church music whereas Scriabin was more cosmopolitan. Yet he developed a distinct harmonic and textural idiom, and perhaps the orientalism of certain previous and contemporary Russian composers is one source. 

In any case, his became one of the most unique and recognizable voices in classical music. There are many, many recordings of Scriabin symphonies by top orchestras and conductors in the catalogue. So I'm surprised at the hesitancy expressed in this thread towards them. Also I'm surprised there isn't one in the catalogue of Esa-Pekka Salonen conducting the _Poem of Ecstasy_ (Symphony No. 4). His interpretation is known for bringing clarity to this challenging work, as can be heard in this performance by the Philharmonia at the 2010 BBC Proms:



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scriabin+poem+of+ecstasy+salonen


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

David Phillips said:


> Muti with the Philadelphia for me. Symphony No.2 is gorgeous.


Yes! Any other fans of Ricardo Muti conducting Scriabin with the Philadelphia? I'e just listened to the _Divine Poem_ (Symphony No. 3) on YT (originally Warner Classics, 1989).


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Other than some of the piano music, has anyone ever heard anything by Scriabin performed live? I can't recall ever seeing an announcement that any of the symphonies or other orchestral works would be played. Is he just another composer who lives only through recordings?


This probably belongs on the Politics and Religion Sub-Forum but until I figure out how to answer a post from this forum over there, here goes:

Orchestra managements at least in North America might find certain Scriabin works too hot to handle because of his spiritual views. For example in the_ Divine Poem_ the proposition of the first movement is that Man is God. It's been a long time since the 1970's when I read the Faubion Bowers biography of Scriabin, but my impression is that Scriabin seriously felt himself to be a religious prophet. At that time I don't think Scriabin was performed much at all, especially his orchestral music, in North America -- and the biography was something of a sensation.

And then it seems to require a significant effort by a fine conductor and orchestra to make the works as wholes come off. But when they do as with Esa-Pekka Salonen and the _Poem of Ecstasy _on YT, well, I have to listen up. Mostly he lives on recordings, though, in this part of the world.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Roger Knox said:


> Yes! Any other fans of Ricardo Muti conducting Scriabin with the Philadelphia? I'e just listened to the _Divine Poem_ (Symphony No. 3) on YT (originally Warner Classics, 1989).


I'm not the greatest Muti fan, but his Scriabin cycle is superb. If you want to own only one set, it's an obvious first choice. It's dirt cheap in the Brilliant Classics incarnation too.



mbhaub said:


> Other than some of the piano music, has anyone ever heard anything by Scriabin performed live? I can't recall ever seeing an announcement that any of the symphonies or other orchestral works would be played. Is he just another composer who lives only through recordings?


I remember when the discussion about hearing damage and tinnitus among orchestral musicians started, Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy was singled out as a big culprit, being one of the "loudest" pieces in the repertoire. So I can imagine the piece - and Scriabin's orchestral works in general gaining some notoriety because of that and orchestral managements being reluctant to put it on the programmes. Just a theory though.


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