# Throwing The Budget Labels Out With the Bath Water?



## Mark Dee (Feb 16, 2021)

Hi all,

Does anyone collect budget labels? Or should we turn our nose up at them/disregard them/ignore them?

I have recordings on CD and Vinyl from what I'd class as the lower end of the spectrum, e.g.:

Music For Pleasure/Classics For Pleasure
EMI Fanfare
Chevron
Marble Arch
Stereo Gold Award
Senator
ARC
Fidelio
Pye Golden Guinea
Contour
IMP Classics
Pilz
Tring
Allegro
Musicbank
World Record Club
Concert Hall (not sure if this actually counts as a budget label)
Emporio.

Only occasionally have I been disappointed with either the performance or the quality of the recording.

Do I set my sights too low, or is there a plethora of high quality budget recordings still out there that need investigating?

Just last night I was listening to an LP that was gifted to me by someone who is not into classical music at all. It was 'Marches from the Opera' played by The London Philharmonic Orchestra under Reinhard Linz. Recorded in Mono in 1958 and released on Marble Arch around 1965. (I am guessing it was a re-issue of something released at the time of recording, but I couldn't trace the original release).

I was really quite surprised by how good it sounded. There are some vinyl labels which I would tend to stay away from (Arcade, K-Tel, Ronco, Pickwick), not necessarily because of the orchestras or pieces, but because the ones I have had come into my possession have by and large been poorly recorded and/or mastered, and the pressings are sometimes quite nasty - no definition, often pressed off centre, lots of surface noise, and even warped.

But as for the ones listed at the top of the post (including those on CD), at least 90% of them have been very pleasant to listen to, which is my criteria for a 'keeper'.

If anyone has any views or opinions on this I'd love to read them.

Many thanks, Mark


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Mark Dee said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone collect budget labels? Or should we turn our nose up at them/disregard them/ignore them?
> 
> ...


*CDs:*

*Brilliant Classics and Naxos* can be on a par with full-price labels, of course, but it really depends on the exact recordings, an old discussion and subject it is. Full-price labels aren't a guarantee for the best content.

*Alto *often has good performances, but the sound can be less satisfying.

*Membran*, *TIM* and *ArtOne *has a lot of interesting, very inexpensive stuff, sound tends to historical or mono though. Often very interesting, historical performers, sometimes rare repertoire (like the 10CD box of _Harald Genzmer_ orchestral music, in new recordings, licensed from another label).

*Pilz* has its fans, some lesser known repertoire there, but the performances I've heard weren't smashing, IMO. I have kept a couple of Hindemith releases.

Generally I don't care much about sound quality, it's qualities in the performance, or lesser known repertoire, that attract me.

*LPs:*

*Allegro* - generally very poor sound, sometimes faked performers, of less interest IMO. The _Emperor Concerto _with "Eric Silver" has some moments, but the sound is like 1945.

*World Record Club* - very varying. I don't have that many or much knowledge about it. For example I have an interesting LP with Messiaen as a soloist in his "_Quatuor _...".

*Pye* - often fine, British standard performances with quite good sound.

*MHS, Musical heritage Society *- mostly stereo, very comprehensive, encyclopedic repertoire, performances of varying interest, often good, even some early digital stuff from major labels.

*MMS* - very varying performances, some decidedly poor with outdated sound, mono or fake stereo, but also a few interesting features, such as pianists Newton-Wood, Johannesen, Goldsand; violinists Odnoposoff, Kaufmann etc., conductors like Goehr, Ackermann etc. I've collected some because of the cover designers, besides for the music itself.

*VOX, Turnabout, Candide, Nonesuch* - stereo sound often OK, often very interesting, encyclopedic repertoire, and often good performances of the Romantic and 20th century repertoire, less so the classical and to some extent the Baroque/early music, IMO. Candide generally tends to be very good.

*Murray Hill* - like above, often the same performers, but very cheap box sets with poorer sound, and usually just standard repertoire, albeit encyclopedically covered.

*Fidelio I* - dated sound, sometimes faked stereo, obscure or faked performers, an old series from the 1960s-1970s. I've tended to somewhat like some _Tchaikovsky_ orchestral recordings by "Felix Heiss" and the "Danzig Philharmonic", still have to do research on whether they're faked ...

*Fidelio II:* there's also a more modern Fidelio series with stereo recordings, releasing say _John Field_'s complete piano concertos with O'Connor/Furst, very fine, and orchestral music by _Foulds/Havergal Brian/Parry_ etc.- these are good and interesting things.

*Classical Excellence* - stereo. Sometimes interesting, typically Austro-German repertoire, lesser known performances (conductor Horvath etc.)

*Critic's Choice* - mostly acknowledged stereo recordings, often of standard repertoire, often interesting cover art.

*EDIT sorry about the many edits *


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

The budget labels are like any label they have their share of excellent recordings/performances and a bunch of also rans. It wouldn't be sensible to disregard any label just because of its name, frankly some of the Naxos recordings put the so called majors to shame both in performance and recording quality.
Just trust your ears and you won't go far wrong - treat them as your best friends, believe what they tell you.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

There are plenty of music snobs who won't touch budget labels but there's always a killer performance just around the corner to be found. Here's some examples of goid ones and crackers from some of the labels mentioned in the opening post.

Classics for Pleasure - Mackerras / RLPO Beethoven symphony cycle, Macal Dvorak 9, Mackerras Dvorak symphonies 7-9
Pye - Barbirolli / Halle Dvorak 8
Contour - too many to mention
IMP Classics - Skrowaczewski / Halle Brahms symphonies
Pilz - Mendelssohn String Quartets (Bartholdy quartet), any Anton Nanut Beethoven or Mahler disc. 
Tring - Holst Planets (Greenberg - but that's a pseudonym, it's probably Nanut), Planets (Handley), Mahler 5 (Shipway), Mahler 1 (Simonov), etc
Allegro - Klemperer's Beethoven 5&6 with the VSSO.
Membran - some interesting rarer releases

I won't even include Naxos or Brilliant Classics here as they have so many tremendous recordings and I don't consider them 'budget' in any way. Tbh, I won't discount any recording till I've heard it, regardless of cost. Don't be a snob, there's some great bargains out there hiding in ugly cd sleeves on crappy labels


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Classical music sells so poorly in general that sometimes major recordings end up orphaned to repackaging almost immediately. There is no shortage of fabulous music in fabulous recordings by fabulous performers on "budget labels."

More quixotically, sometimes orchestras you've never heard of turn out unbelievably good performances. Several I have found on Naxos by Eastern European orchestras have just blown my doors off.

Yesterday, while researching Maurice Ravel, I found several recordings by the Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra conducted by Nodar Tsatishvili(who?) Freaking AWESOME recordings. I assume that's the country Georgia not the US state.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

NoCoPilot said:


> Yesterday, while researching Maurice Ravel, I found several recordings by the Georgian SIMI Festival Orchestra conducted by Nodar Tsatishvili(who?) Freaking AWESOME recordings. I assume that's the country Georgia not the US state.


The problem with the eastern Europe budget labels is that there are thousands of dodgy recordings flying around (which ive alluded to on a number of threads on TC over the years). Unfortunately this means that we will never know who played on some of these recordings (eg. The recordings of Alfred Scholz). This is sadly the case in your Ravel recordings, NoCoPilot. The Georgian Simi Festival Orchestra and Nodar Tsatishvili are pseudonyms likely used to dodge contractual ties. However, its very likely that many of the Georgian Simi Festival Orchestra recordings are either Eastern European pick-up orchestras or members of the Tbilisi Symphony Orchestra freelancing. The conductor could be a decent student, one of the Kakhidzes (Vakhtang or his son) or if an older recording Scholz himself. Pseudonyms and pickup orchestras are a black hole in Eastern European budget recordings, im afraid. All that matters is that you like the recording, NCP. Quite who you are listening to you may never know.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Merl said:


> This is sadly the case in your Ravel recordings, NoCoPilot. The Georgian Simi Festival Orchestra and Nodar Tsatishvili are pseudonyms likely used to dodge contractual ties.


That thought did cross my mind. However Shazam could not identify the recordings as being anybody else.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

NoCoPilot said:


> That thought did cross my mind. However Shazam could not identify the recordings as being anybody else.


Shazam nor anyone (even the actual budget labels themselves) actually know the origin of many of these recordings. They are of a kind and of mixed quality and parentage. Just enjoy them or disregard them on what you hear. Incidentally I have the cobbled together Beethoven cycle by the 'Georgian Simi Festival Orchestra'. Most of the conductors credited don't exist and the recordings are very mixed. Some are hilariously bad but a few are OK. However, considering I paid £1.52 for the 5 disc set, on Amazon, 5 years ago I don't care. I just put it with all my other LVB symphony cycles and smile as I pass it on the cd racks. Lol.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

I don't doubt that what you say is probably true. Shazam couldn't confirm it, but that means nothing. As you say, I really don't give a rat's patoot who the actual orchestra is. The only part that matters is it's a great performance immaculately recorded on a bargain CD.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I am actually more interested in the bath water aspect. Is this already used water we are taking about here?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I love me some Vox boxes! I used to buy more stuff on budget labels when records stores were thriving. Back in those days Naxos was budget at 4-5 dollars a CD. But now they are huge and not cheap anymore. I've never heard of most of the labels mentioned by the OP other than Pilz. I got introduced to Debussy's piano works on that label. I used to buy some LaserLight titles too.


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## Mark Dee (Feb 16, 2021)

I forgot about LaserLight - they also have some good recordings, too.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

I used to discard Naxos, however I have discovered some very interesting recordings from former soviet countries also some obscure stuff you hardly find anywhere else.
Laser Light is the one I never buy still - awful artwork and poor recording/production quality.


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## Mark Dee (Feb 16, 2021)

For a list of faked performers and conductors:

https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Budget_recordings_of_Alfred_Scholz/Lists

Serge Tchaikov is always the one that makes me chuckle...


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

erki said:


> I used to discard Naxos, however I have discovered some very interesting recordings from former soviet countries also some obscure stuff you hardly find anywhere else.
> Laser Light is the one I never buy still - awful artwork and poor recording/production quality.


I have never understood the Naxos aversion. They have some outstanding performers. They also offer lesser know works and composers that the"major" labels won't touch. That niche has made them an industry powerhouse.

Naxos is my go to label when I'm looking for a recording. I don't always go with them but often.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

erki said:


> I used to discard Naxos, however I have discovered some very interesting recordings from former soviet countries also some obscure stuff you hardly find anywhere else.
> Laser Light is the one I never buy still - awful artwork and poor recording/production quality.





starthrower said:


> I love me some Vox boxes! I used to buy more stuff on budget labels when records stores were thriving. Back in those days Naxos was budget at 4-5 dollars a CD. But now they are huge and not cheap anymore. I've never heard of most of the labels mentioned by the OP other than Pilz. I got introduced to Debussy's piano works on that label. I used to buy some LaserLight titles too.


The cheap labels are an adventure. There are a few threads floating around about hidden gems. The Pilz label is especially known for good offerings.

Denon Essentials is a digital cheap label that has surfaced. I have been listening to Brahms Piano concertos featuring D. Tomsic. That recording has been tossed around the cheap labels for a few decades using different artists names at times. Denon actually lists the same recording under different names. It's a trip. But a good rendition of Brahms and cheap.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

Mark Dee said:


> Just last night I was listening to an LP that was gifted to me by someone who is not into classical music at all. It was 'Marches from the Opera' played by The London Philharmonic Orchestra under Reinhard Linz. Recorded in Mono in 1958 and released on Marble Arch around 1965. *(I am guessing it was a re-issue of something released at the time of recording, but I couldn't trace the original release)*.


https://www.discogs.com/Reinhard-Li...rchestra-Marches-From-The-Opera/master/782412


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## Mark Dee (Feb 16, 2021)

NoCoPilot:

Thanks for this - that looks like the Alshire US release from 1960 - it looks like it was first released in the UK on Pye Golden Guinea in 1960 (ish), and then re-released on Marble Arch in 1965 (which would make sense as Marble Arch was a budget subsidiary of Pye).

Thanks for the info.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I have never understood the Naxos aversion. They have some outstanding performers. They also offer lesser know works and composers that the"major" labels won't touch. That niche has made them an industry powerhouse.
> 
> Naxos is my go to label when I'm looking for a recording. I don't always go with them but often.


The best time to buy Naxos discs in the UK was back in the early 2000s when Woolworths were going outta business. My nearest Woolworths at the time (Stockport) sold all their Naxos cds off initially at any 5 for £10 in the last month. In the last few days of trading that pricechanged to 5 for £5 for big name composers (Beethoven, Brahms, etc) and 2 for £1 for any other more obscure discs. I got in late on the last Saturday they were open but still managed to bag around 30 cds at the time. I later found out that one of the parents of a child in my class worked there and she would have got me as many as I wished with a huge staff discount a d coukd have had anything left at the end of the last day for free. I was gutted.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Mark Dee said:


> For a list of faked performers and conductors:
> 
> https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Budget_recordings_of_Alfred_Scholz/Lists
> 
> Serge Tchaikov is always the one that makes me chuckle...


Far longer ago than I care to remember, I was visiting a schoolfriend's house and his mum put on a Fidelio LP of Mozart's D minor piano concerto conducted, so the sleeve said, by one Wilhelm Havagesse. I tried to stop myself laughing but didn't quite make it.


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## Mark Dee (Feb 16, 2021)

Serge Tchaikov is so obviously fake ... might as well be Van Ludwig (as in Van Cliburn, or Van Morrison), or even Bert Schu... the list could be endless ...


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

erki said:


> Laser Light is the one I never buy still - awful artwork and poor recording/production quality.


I agree, but to their credit, Laserlight was the first label to issue the Rostropovich/Boult recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.


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## Geoff48 (Aug 15, 2020)

wkasimer said:


> I agree, but to their credit, Laserlight was the first label to issue the Rostropovich/Boult recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.


Originally recorded by EMI. The budget labels often issue recordings which fall outside the 50 year copyright period and given that late fifties and sixties stereo is quite acceptable are often great value for money.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Mark Dee said:


> Serge Tchaikov is always the one that makes me chuckle...


Tssss.. They could not even go for Tchaikofiev?

Loads of excellent CDs on budget labels, especially Naxos (less recorded repertoire but also e.g. Respighi's Roman trilogy and Hyand's string quartets) and Brilliant Classics (especially their re-issues taken from more famous labels).


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