# Educational qualifications for conservatoire entrance in the UK



## Jaws

This is another part of the conservatoire/university discussion that needs to be known about in the UK. I have been told that it is possible to get into a conservatoire in the UK with only one E at A level. I know that it is possible to get a place with two Es at A level. This is an extremely low educational qualification. I have a couple of questions to ask regarding this.

As the conservatiores offer Bmus hons degrees how does the standard of the degree compare with one from a university where the lowest A level pass accepted for entrance might be around 3 **? 

As most conservatoire students with degrees will eventually be competing for jobs with university music students with degrees what difference will the conservatoire application forms with educational qualifications including 2 Es at A level make to their chance of competing for a job against people who have higher standard A levels? Will this lead employers to think that university degrees are a much higher standard than conservatoire degrees? Are they correct?


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## PetrB

Simple. One does not need to know what a compound is, the names of all the bones in the human body, or calculus to be a most excellent performing musician. None of those are prerequisites to enter or do swimmingly well in theory classes, as a composition major, or a musicologist.

Your earlier academic degree, the courses covered, are enough that you should be able to write a decent academic paper (music history class, etc.) and basic maths are all that are needed to balance your checkbook, or to count rhythmic notation.

Superfluous, then, much of that education IF you are certain you will be dedicating yourself to a music training. The grading, 'the curve' at conservatory is no less than a demanding high-level university has for other subjects: grades and grading are on highly specialized music subjects (not offered in 'normal' unis without a music department), and your ability to deliver.

If not being hired for a music post, employers can and should pretty much dismiss a conservatory degree as only showing that the applicant 'finishes things.'

Time, methinks, to stop hedging your bets: nothing looks worse to any potential employer than an academic record that looks like you didn't care enough to major in the discipline needed for the job.


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## Ramako

I know someone who went to a conservatoire and needed 2 Es. I strongly assume she got them.

Incidentally, it used to be the case that once offered a place at Oxford or Cambridge all you needed was 2 Es, because they had entrance exams.

It is a fact that in our country, people graduating with university music degrees tend to go into careers in music. This is not the case with most other subjects (obviously there are exceptions - I suppose medicine is probably one). So it isn't that it is that different to a conservatoire.

But someone would have to be stupid (probably not that unusual but still...) to just stop working at A-levels, because all they need are two Es. If they get 3 As, like a university student, then there is no difference in A-levels as far as a job is concerned.


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## Jaws

Ramako said:


> I know someone who went to a conservatoire and needed 2 Es. I strongly assume she got them.
> 
> Incidentally, it used to be the case that once offered a place at Oxford or Cambridge all you needed was 2 Es, because they had entrance exams.
> 
> It is a fact that in our country, people graduating with university music degrees tend to go into careers in music. This is not the case with most other subjects (obviously there are exceptions - I suppose medicine is probably one). So it isn't that it is that different to a conservatoire.
> 
> But someone would have to be stupid (probably not that unusual but still...) to just stop working at A-levels, because all they need are two Es. If they get 3 As, like a university student, then there is no difference in A-levels as far as a job is concerned.


Before I started writing these threads I did a bit of research. There is a website that I looked at that described what graduates do in the UK after graduation. Music was put in with performing arts. The result was that roughly 25% of these students got jobs in hospitality, bars, restaurants, etc, basically the kind of job that doesn't need a degree level education.

I know that many ex conservatoire students are being advised to have portfolio careers.
I am sure that many people don't realise that after paying £36k in fees and about the same again in living costs to study for a degree at a London conservatoire that they will have to earn a living by doing lots of part time jobs. Even for those that get playing jobs the fees for two 3 hour sessions (6 hours ) working in London is in the range of £115 to £130. This is gross pay before tax. There is no holiday pay, maternity pay, sick pay, or pension.


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## Praeludium

For a while I thought about studying in the UK, and then I saw how much it costs. 
Even if musicians did find decent music-related jobs after their studies, they'd better not study in UK financially speaking.


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## Ramako

Jaws said:


> Before I started writing these threads I did a bit of research. There is a website that I looked at that described what graduates do in the UK after graduation. Music was put in with performing arts. The result was that roughly 25% of these students got jobs in hospitality, bars, restaurants, etc, basically the kind of job that doesn't need a degree level education.
> 
> I know that many ex conservatoire students are being advised to have portfolio careers.
> I am sure that many people don't realise that after paying £36k in fees and about the same again in living costs to study for a degree at a London conservatoire that they will have to earn a living by doing lots of part time jobs. Even for those that get playing jobs the fees for two 3 hour sessions (6 hours ) working in London is in the range of £115 to £130. This is gross pay before tax. There is no holiday pay, maternity pay, sick pay, or pension.


Indeed not. That is why going to a conservatoire is a risk. You go there to do music, not to get a job. I did that myself, though going to a university the risk is somewhat less. People should be aware of this, yes, but that doesn't make it a terrible thing to do.


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## Sonata

Jaws said:


> without holiday pay, maternity pay, sick pay, or pension.


I know it's better over in Europe, but unfortunately the lack of maternity pay is not a surprise. Maternity is a almost non-existant in my part of the United States. I never had it and I work in the medical field of all places.


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## Jaws

Ramako said:


> Indeed not. That is why going to a conservatoire is a risk. You go there to do music, not to get a job. I did that myself, though going to a university the risk is somewhat less. People should be aware of this, yes, but that doesn't make it a terrible thing to do.


The problem that I am finding though is that people ARE going to conservatoire thinking that they WILL get a playing job after spending all this money to go. School careers departments don't seem to be making it clear that there are not going to be music playing jobs for most people who study at a conservatoire. I feel that this information should be available to all students who are considering applying to a conservatoire. I don't believe that anyone can make an informed choice about where to study if they don't understand that most conservatoire students will ultimately be competing for jobs with university music graduates.


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