# Classical Percussionist vs Pop percussionist



## Thomas

Do u realise that percussionists are just rude, arrogant and really silly? Go to any website...classical or not...And while people are posting serious stuff, they post nonsense! But I find classical percussionists a whole lot better. What about u people? Or is it just me who feel this way? They are really uncouth, and are huge jerks. I hate the way they throw stupid comments into formal discussions. They think it's funny, but it's not. Sorry, no offense, But I'm sure not all the percussionists are like that. But having that destructive few is enouhj to spoil the day. :angry:


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## Daniel

I know what you mean. I think the modern percussionists are like that because of the music they do with their "instruments": agressive, cold, if we are talking about that metal, rock..... You can't generalize that, there are always excerpts. This forum will be posted with classical percussionists of course.


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## 009

Well.... It's interesting how people see one another. They think that they're cool and we're stuck up elites. 
On the other hand, we percieve ourselves as dignified, intelligent and matured beings, and them as animals....
It's funny how one's self rescpect is treated as trash and stupidity by the other party... I wonder what the pop drummers are thinking of us right now. Hmmmm...


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## Quaverion

I know what you mean. Have any of you ever heard of Rob Dougan? He does a lot of music with orchestras and a solo drum combined. Just the orchestra and the drum. He did some of the Matrix music. Almost all of his songs are based on one very basic rythm though. You can listen to some of them on http://www.RobDougan.com/


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## Thomas

> * He did some of the Matrix music. Almost all of his songs are based on one very basic rythm though.*


Wow! I love the matrix music.
It's fantastic how one basic rhythmic pattern can develop into something so complex.
The Complexity Theorem?


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## baroque flute

I agree with Daniel that percussionists (mainly in pop) are rude and insensitive because their music is. I mean , you pratice that kind of stuff day in day out, and you either become a rude, stupid person (if not to begin with) or you go nuts! I have seen better people among classical percussionists, for a fact. 

HAve you heard of "Bach On Wood" by Brian Slawson? He is a classical percussionist who got it into his head to play baroque pieces on various unusual percussion instruments (not modern ones!). I like orchestra better, but it still is interesting and funny.


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## 009

> *HAve you heard of "Bach On Wood" by Brian Slawson? He is a classical percussionist who got it into his head to play baroque pieces on various unusual percussion instruments (not modern ones!). I like orchestra better, but it still is interesting and funny.*


Yes... I find it really amusing as well. It's good to see this kind of special arrangement sometimes. Destress.  
I think yr right about the knid of music that they play...I think for musicians...You are what u Play/listen...pretty much like One is what one eat. U agree?


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## The Angel of Music

Thomas said:


> Do u realise that percussionists are just rude, arrogant and really silly? Go to any website...classical or not...And while people are posting serious stuff, they post nonsense!
> 
> I notice that too! Wieeeeerd!!! <_<


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## Thomas

Ahaha...At leat now I know I'm not the odd one out when it comes to sorting people.


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## becky

I guess I've met different percussionists. I never thought they were rude. In fact the valedictorian of my graduating class was a percussionist. The ones I have met are respectable musicians! Of course I haven't met any on web forums. That may have a lot to do with it! A person can act however they want to on a forum and not have the repercussions of people knowing what their face looks like.


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## 009

> * A person can act however they want to on a forum and not have the repercussions of people knowing what their face looks like.*


Agree. But certainly not us. We have more self respect. :lol: And it's really rude ( besides being plain silly ) to throw nonsense in someone else's forum. It's very rude. :angry: 
I think it depends on the kind of people they hang out with also. Percussionists may play crap, but may not be crap, unless they hang out with crap. :angry:


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## Rondo

To revive an old discussion, feel free to drop in....

As a former percussionist myself (_not_ a cellist  ) I find that the stereotypes of percussionists (not to be confused with 'drummer') still remain to this day. They can't read music! They don't sight-read, they only improv!

I'm glad, but also rather disappointed, that it takes someone who either knows one or more percussionists or years of music performance experience to realize that these stereotypes are not just _sometimes_ true, but *never* entirely true! Personally, I can't understand why (or how) there would be any connection between personality and the instrument someone plays, regardless of how long they have played it.


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## BuddhaBandit

I can't quite agree with you, Thomas. Now, I've never really gotten to know any classical percussionists, but, as a jazz/rock pianist, I've jammed with many jazz/rock drummers. With only a few rare exceptions, they've all been great people. I'm going to go with Rondo when he says that:



> I can't understand why (or how) there would be any connection between personality and the instrument someone plays, regardless of how long they have played it.


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## Yagan Kiely

The [classical] percussionists at my uni are the most professional there (on average).


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## fox_druid

DW said:


> Well.... It's interesting how people see one another. They think that they're cool and we're stuck up elites.
> On the other hand, we percieve ourselves as dignified, intelligent and matured beings, and them as animals....
> It's funny how one's self rescpect is treated as trash and stupidity by the other party... I wonder what the pop drummers are thinking of us right now. Hmmmm...


That's absolutely true!

But aside from that, however, I think it's also true that mostly they come from lower social
class, I mean it's not just a stereotype that classical music listener have better education than them, because it takes more to be able to understand classical music.


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## Guest

fox_druid said:


> That's absolutely true!
> 
> But aside from that, however, I think it's also true that mostly they come from lower social
> class, I mean it's not just a stereotype that classical music listener have better education than them, because it takes more to be able to understand classical music.


*And you are in an elite social class,* OMG ???. this is pigeon holing of the worse kind and I am amazed that this attitude exists on this forum 
Like BuddhaBandit I have played with many wonderful DRUMMERS in Jazz Bands, Dance Bands and Percussionists in Orchestras, "this is when I was in the UK" they are just as diverse as other instrumentalists. *unbelievable *


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## Yagan Kiely

Calling it 'lower social class' is extremely elitist (even if you don't mean it that way, it can't be taken any other way). But you are perfectly find by saying that we do have a higher education - Jazz is the closest.


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## Rondo

Yagan Kiely said:


> But you are perfectly find by saying that we do have a higher education - Jazz is the closest.


To my knowledge, that has to be an empirical statement.


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## Yagan Kiely

It is a generalisation, but like most generalisations, it is generally true. There are lots of institutes for Classical Music, and (though fewer) Jazz Music. There are MUCH less for contemporary 'pop' (etc.) music. 

Also take into account that Classical Music and Jazz music is FAR more theoretically and audibly complex than (most) popular music.

It is a requirement of classical music to have a high education, and there are more institutes to get the required education. Put these two together and you get my statement before.


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## fox_druid

I am terribly sorry, I didnt mean that. Maybe it just come to wrong term  
I am not speaking English as my first language and calling a 'lower social class' is considered as a polite way in my living region daily life. I'm not just making an excuse, but I really don't know about that. And I realize that it was wrong, I was just trying to refer to the less educated people who think they're cool. It's just my stupid generalisation based on what I see here, and I know I'm just living in a small third world country, and it's really a stupid idea to make a statement based on a limited point of view. But I do learn from this experience


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## Guest

Yagan Kiely said:


> It is a requirement of classical music to have a high education, and there are more institutes to get the required education. Put these two together and you get my statement before.


In what way is a high education a requirement for classical music and what do you call 'high education" ?? do you mean University that is what I would call a higher education and by that time your choice of a career should already have been made.


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## Guest

*fox_druid*
I apologise for being* unPC*, that is me, I did not realise that English was not your first language.


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## Yagan Kiely

> In what way is a high education a requirement for classical music and what do you call 'high education" ?? do you mean University that is what I would call a higher education and by that time your choice of a career should already have been made.


I really don't care where you get a better education. What I mean by higher is that you need to know much more. Beethoven didn't go to uni, he got a good musical education elsewhere. The same knowledge isn't a requirement of most popular music and could even be a hindrance to it.


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## Rondo

Whoa! Off topic...but, nevertheless....

In many places classical music has an upper-class, elite appeal to it. However, things like that never remain static. People listen to what they like. I recall reading an article which found that those who were educated (operationalized as having at least a college degree) had a more diverse selection in music than average. In other words, the link between classical music and education may not be as persistent as once thought. 

Now, that is in the US and is the extent of my knowledge on the matter. In other countries it may be different, which may be why Fox Druid stated that.


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## Yagan Kiely

I;m talking about performers (as this is about percussionists). And Classical (lets keep it with percussionists) is much more complex (at times) than pop music percussion.

But even listeners, it is much easier to appreciate a beatles song than Ionisation, Threnody or even Wagner and Strauss. To appreciate it, requires an education, HOWEVER, for listners the extent of this education need not be any more than listening to such pieces quite a few times (and with an open mind).


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## Guest

Yagan Kiely said:


> I really don't care where you get a better education. What I mean by higher is that you need to know much more. Beethoven didn't go to uni, he got a good musical education elsewhere. The same knowledge isn't a requirement of most popular music and could even be a hindrance to it.


 I see, you mean once you have started your musical studies, my mistake, I though you considered it a pre requisite to even start studying, which IMO would have been nonsense.

*Rondo*, I agree a lot of people call classical "elitist music" it is a thoughtless remark and may translate as "I do not like it" they just have a narrow and limited knowledge of music.


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## tutto

percussionist is someone who like to hang-out with musicians...


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## Rondo

tutto said:


> percussionist is someone who like to hang-out with musicians...


Careful.  Just because someone is a percussionist doesn't mean they are musically incompetent.


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## Guest

The poor old skin bangers, always the BUTT of jokes by tiny minded musicians, as is the poor old Viola player, if any one is interested have a look at the two links below, one from Classical and one from Jazz. it may change your view but I won't hold my breath.

http://www.trustcds.com/pages/artists/Farr.html Gareth Farr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Roach#Biography Max Roach


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## Kezza

I've been a percussionist for about 9 years or so now and I only listen to and play Classical.
I don't think I'm a very arrogant person but rather a gentle kind hearted and caring person who loves other people. Put me on a sporting field and my personality completely changes but I'm playing music more.

I quit Drumming so to speak when I went into College (yr11 here in Canberra) because every that I had to play with were arrogant death metal playing wierdos. So instead every music lesson at school I just taught myself piano and continued my percussion studies outside of school. Classical Percussion that is. Love my Marimbas and Timps


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## cachow6

To be honest, I am somewhat surprised and amazed at some of the attitudes expressed in this thread. To generalize about the education levels and even personalities about an entire group of musicians based solely on the instrument they play is, to me, astounding. Speaking as a classical percussionist AND a rock drummer, I feel that percussionists are no different from any other group of musicians in that some of them you might like, and some of them you might not. Many of the nicest people I know include drummers, and some of the most arrogant and rude people I know happen to be violinists or flutists.


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## Bgroovy2

How do ya get a drummer off your door step, pay for the pizza...lol

My step son is a drummer and very good at what he does, it's just that I don't like what he does. It's nothing personal, he's a great guy. Don't judge the person by the instument they play cause hey, we all know that vocalists are elitest snobs, right? I am just of the opinon that todays music has to much rhythm and percussion in it. For example; I purchased a track for "The Lord's Prayer" online. When I finally got it, I was infuriated! They added a rather long tag on the peice, which was ok but it turned into this kind of rock ballad thing with screaming guitars and pounding drums. Why is it that modern arrangers can't compose a peice without a trap set in it? I get so eritated. Leave the classics classical! But hey, we have people in our culture that believe that Pink Floyd is classical.....urgh.


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## Rondo

Bgroovy2 said:


> But hey, we have people in our culture that believe that Pink Floyd is classical.


I think I just vomited in my mouth after reading that sentence.


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## Kezza

tutto said:


> percussionist is someone who like to hang-out with musicians...


Every percussion teacher/music teacher I've ever had said that you're a musician before you are a drummer/percusionist. And the same applies to other instruments too. You don't refuse to learn Bass clef just because you play violin for example. The same goes for percussionists, you learn all the theory and notes and stuff even though you may just play snare drum.

As for the social status of classical? I'm very middle class. Went to public school had to get a job in high school to help pay rent and for my own school excursions. My mum listens to country and western and all my friends listen to punk/rock etc so I don't think it has anything to do with social status at all. It just depends on what kind of person you are.

And you will find that all the good pro rock drummers and the like will have had some kind of classicalish training, they will know all their rudiments and the theory behind the music they write and things like that. All the snobby ones that think all they need to do is hit the drums will probably get nowhere as a drummer. Same for classical though it's not about just playing the NOTES, you also have to play the MUSIC


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## kv466

Wow, what a very sad and limited view of things...


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