# How can classical be most enjoyed?



## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

_*How can classical be most enjoyed?*_

for example, can classical music be appreciated in full and enjoyed at its maximum,
when heard in an extraordinary environment?

I have realized what real beauty means in 2 occasions.

_My first experience was in Rome, in the Baths of Caracalla,
when one beautiful August night I watched Tosca._

Among the most impressive ruins of the building that Emperor Caracalla built,
the Teatro dell' Opera di Roma presented a most exquisite spectacle and performance.

The second one was in an other diamond open theater,_ the Herod Atticus in Athens._

It was a warm July, just before midnight, with the best view of the Parthenon,
_listening to the 6th symphony of Mahler, the tragic,_ with the Philarmonic Orchestra
of the Scala di Milano by Semyon Bychkov.

At that specific time, yes, I admitted, that classical music had a different sound there
and a very distinct influence on me.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I love listening to early choral music in old cathedral settings. I have heard the Mass described as a sort of proto-Gesamtkunstwerk, whereby the combination of sights, sounds and even scents add to the overall experience. I remember seeing The Sixteen perform Palestrina in Durham Cathedral, and that was simply heavenly!

My only preference, however, is for small and intimate rather than big and grand. I can get just as much pleasure out of listening to a CD at home, or listening on my iPod whilst on a nice walk, than I can from going to concerts. I like having that complete control over the music, i.e. I can listen to exactly what I feel like at any given moment and I can stop a piece if it gets boring. 

Different listening experiences for different moods, I guess


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Between the ears


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Without doubt, unusual physical environments can heighten one's experience, but you would be limiting yourself to enjoying intensely only very little music if you cannot appreciate the music without the props 

One of my favourite ways to enjoy it is to lie down on the living room floor in the dark (sometimes with a pillow and a blanket). It's forces me to focus closely on only the hearing sense.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Lying down in a dark room with great speakers.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I can surely understand receiving the notes in such aesthetically beautiful settings, as clara s describes in Rome and Athens. I have seen those specific venues. However, I feel most comfortable listening to music in the sanctuary of my own listening room without distractions of people or amazing scenery.

I once attended an outdoor evening concert in the Hollywood Bowl in California and found myself gazing at the hollywood hills more than I was actually listening to the music.

Too much of a good thing I guess.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Lying down with blankets and a pillow is a recipe for instant sleep for me. I have to be upright, either sitting or standing. The home is the least distracting environment. At concerts I feel a little restrained. It's not that I jump around, but head-bobbing is not unknown.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^^Was that you in Nashville? I'll never sit behind you again!


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I don't know for sure because I've never experienced this, but I would imagine the best way would be to hear world-class European orchestras or musicians perform the music of the greats in the same churches/buildings where those composers played and composed hundreds of years before. That's truly a dream for me and I'll be ecstatic out of my mind when the day comes that I can make the trip to travel all over Germany, Austria, and other surrounding areas.


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## Frei aber froh (Feb 22, 2013)

Playing it is by far my favorite way of enjoying most music; playing it at the absolute best of my capability in a space with great acoustics, and with great musicians if it is scored for an ensemble. As for things I can't play or times when I can't play it, listening is my favorite way to appreciate music, either in a concert hall, a beautiful place or moment in my day-to-day life, or a dark room with good headphones or speakers.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Between the ears


"... I beg of you to keep the matter of my deafness a profound secret
to be confided to nobody, no matter whom..."
L. van Beethoven

there must be more than "between the ears"


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Life needs variety


"When a pebble is thrown into a lake, everything, down to the furthermost depths, moves with it."

Even when you lie down on the floor or the couch, in absolute darkness and listen to CDs or mp3s,
it is impossible not to see images and pictures and beautiful landscapes or even the abyss,
passing by your eyes

classical music can be real genious
and it can trigger all 5 senses, as well as the mind and the soul.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Immersion! I like to get my hands on a work so good that I can and want to simply immerse myself in it, that is, I want to listen to it over and over, read about it, study it, hear various conductor's interpretations of it--just become super familiar with it like an old friend. Ideally one should know it by playback of CD, but also a live concert will add a dimension of reality that is otherwise not available with playback.

A few such works in my opinion are Handel's Messiah, and Beethoven's Eroica, Ninth, and Fidelio, but there are more, many more.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

For me personally, I have a rocking chair and I love to listen in the dark rocking.... 

But the experience of live music is incomparable, even if the performers aren't always up to the standards of world-class musicians enjoying multiple takes.... I can remember specific things about many of the concerts I've gone to, even when the performers were just university orchestras, but rarely do specific things about times I've listened to recorded music stick in my memory, because the experiences are so much richer in live performance.

And choral music in particular, especially the older liturgical music, is just a whole different experience in person than it is recorded. Or at least my speakers cannot reproduce the spatial wealth of that music. I know the Russian liturgical tradition is a bit foreign to mainstream Western classical music (though it's been slowly gaining ground for the past 20 years or so), but I've had opportunities to hear that live lots of times in monasteries and seminaries, as well as a few concerts, and it's just... whatever... no recording I've experienced even nearly captures it.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

With a beer and a pIzza.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Clara, it's wonderful that you have had these memorable experiences. I think everyone has memories where music is attached to an event. Whether that be attending a concert in unique settings or a symphony hall, or what we were listening to when we fell in love and had that first kiss. However, for the most part, these are the extraordinary events in our lives. If we're not careful we kind find ourselves spending a lot of money and time hunting for that next elusive "experience". That next musical "high". It's kind of like having a religious experience and then trying to find what we need to do to experience it again. We can find ourselves jumping from church to church (or concert to concert) trying to have that bliss of worship and a divine touch (musical ecstasy). It may happen again or we could spend our entire lives seeking it out only to never have that kind of experience again. That said I don't think it's wrong for us to expect to connect with the music we listen to. If music does not connect with us in some deep way it will be like a passing thought. Here for a second but never laid hold of to benefit from and become memorable.

Music can often be elusive and there can be many reasons why. We may not be in a proper state of mind when we hear a piece for the first time, or we may not be able to appreciate a piece yet because our musical experience and knowledge have not given us the tools to enjoy a piece. Sometimes, or maybe most often, music does not bring forth it's riches easily and requires something on our side. That might mean repeated listening to become familiar with a work, or reading up on it and trying to understand what the composer intended for us to find. No matter what though I personally don't believe you can enjoy Classical music to the full without concentrated listening. For me that means undivided attention being given. I try to not listen to Classical music as background. I may put on some Baroque or Classical period pieces as background occasionally but it doesn't really give the music the focus that it deserves.

I also think that if you can read music that following the score can be quite helpful. Learning about the composer and reading reviews can also be helpful but not necessary. The only thing necessary to enjoy music is to listen with open ears and a willingness to let the music take you where it will. Some works will speak more to you, and stay with you, and you will find yourself coming back again and again to those pieces. Other works might be interesting and even stimulating intellectually but not reach you on a deep level. That's OK because everyone is different and what one person finds meaningful another may not.

It is also helpful to find other like minded listeners who have similar tastes as they can be invaluable resources for new discoveries that you would never have found on your own. This forum has provided such for me and I am glad to have made some friends here and listeners who I trust. I hope you enjoy Talk Classical as much as I do!

Kevin


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

GGluek said:


> With a beer and a pIzza.


They don't allow those in Symphony Hall Boston. For some reason. I remember the fight they had at the Pops a few years ago. Hmm... maybe just pizza with no beer. How about root beer?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Radames said:


> How about root beer?


If it's the real thing, made with sassafras, sure thing!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Kevin Pearson said:


> Clara, it's wonderful that you have had these memorable experiences. I think everyone has memories where music is attached to an event. Whether that be attending a concert in unique settings or a symphony hall, or what we were listening to when we fell in love and had that first kiss. However, for the most part, these are the extraordinary events in our lives. If we're not careful we kind find ourselves spending a lot of money and time hunting for that next elusive "experience". That next musical "high". It's kind of like having a religious experience and then trying to find what we need to do to experience it again. We can find ourselves jumping from church to church (or concert to concert) trying to have that bliss of worship and a divine touch (musical ecstasy). It may happen again or we could spend our entire lives seeking it out only to never have that kind of experience again. That said I don't think it's wrong for us to expect to connect with the music we listen to. If music does not connect with us in some deep way it will be like a passing thought. Here for a second but never laid hold of to benefit from and become memorable.
> 
> Music can often be elusive and there can be many reasons why. We may not be in a proper state of mind when we hear a piece for the first time, or we may not be able to appreciate a piece yet because our musical experience and knowledge have not given us the tools to enjoy a piece. Sometimes, or maybe most often, music does not bring forth it's riches easily and requires something on our side. That might mean repeated listening to become familiar with a work, or reading up on it and trying to understand what the composer intended for us to find. No matter what though I personally don't believe you can enjoy Classical music to the full without concentrated listening. For me that means undivided attention being given. I try to not listen to Classical music as background. I may put on some Baroque or Classical period pieces as background occasionally but it doesn't really give the music the focus that it deserves.
> 
> ...


Kevin

what you wrote here is really precious, because it involves your experience and feelings for classical music.

but how can anybody tell, that I am not fully concentrated to a classical music piece,
when i enjoy it in a theatre, live, performed by a great artist or orchestra?

I do not think that i loose the real meaning and chase an elusive experience, by attending concerts
in some special places!

On the contrary, I love to experience how Norma is heard in a great opera theatre,
or how Bruckner's 8th reaches me in a famous concert hall.

Of course, there are times, that i want to stay in darkness and listen to Mozart's requiem.

I also enjoy classical music in my office, when I work by myself, and I want peace of mind to prepare a work.

But for me, variety in enjoying music is important, because I want always to search and discover something new in what I hear.

So, yes, it depends on the individual person and his needs, personality, 
pleasures and favourite ways of enjoying classical music.

Of course, no need to say that your last two paragraphs are the real money, 
and I will follow every line of them and see the results.

and yes, I admit, I enjoy this site very much.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

brotagonist said:


> If it's the real thing, made with sassafras, sure thing!


no alcohol to root beer?


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## jlaw (Jan 25, 2014)

Put the radio dial on pop station for a week, then turn to the classical station.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2014)

clara s said:


> _*How can classical be most enjoyed?*_


There can't be any general rules for this. It must depend on a range of factors like one's age, the kind of music you like, and how often you want to listen to it.

I used to like going to concerts but they are now very rare occurrences. The kind of music I prefer generally doesn't benefit greatly from a concert. I'm happy to listen to the occasional orchestral work, including an opera, but mostly I prefer music at the other end of "size" spectrum: things like Montevedi madrigals, Romantic era lieder, and most of all 18th & 19th chamber music including piano solo.

For this type of thing I can't beat the comfort of my own home.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2014)

clara s said:


> "... I beg of you to keep the matter of my deafness a profound secret
> to be confided to nobody, no matter whom..."
> L. van Beethoven
> 
> there must be more than "between the ears"


...and yet, did he compose music _not _to be heard (between the ears)?


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

jlaw said:


> Put the radio dial on pop station for a week, then turn to the classical station.


meaning what?

I didn't get it


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

MacLeod said:


> ...and yet, did he compose music _not _to be heard (between the ears)?


of course he composed music to be heard,

but not ONLY between the ears

His music is heard simultaneously by ears, and also by other important receivers


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

jlaw said:


> Put the radio dial on pop station for a week, then turn to the classical station.





clara s said:


> meaning what?
> 
> I didn't get it


I took it as a beat your head against the wall because it feels so good to stop type of thing.:lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Actually the answer to the original query is: with one's favorite alcoholic beverage.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Florestan said:


> I took it as a beat your head against the wall because it feels so good to stop type of thing.:lol:


I see

is the time frame of a week crucial,
or it can be extended to a forthnight?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

clara s said:


> I see
> 
> is the time frame of a week crucial,
> or it can be extended to a forthnight?


Depends on how much garbage one must be fed before they will appreciate a good meal.

Much of the music on the radio today would only take moments to turn me back to classical.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Depends on how much garbage one must be fed before they will appreciate a good meal.
> 
> Much of the music on the radio today would only take moments to turn me back to classical.


seriously now, one has not to be fed with garbage to turn to quality meal.

I do not have to listen to radio garbage, to appreciate the value of classical music

we are well trained here in classical sounds

thats why I asked the meaning of jlaw's sentence


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

clara s said:


> seriously now, one has not to be fed with garbage to turn to quality meal.
> 
> I do not have to listen to radio garbage, to appreciate the value of classical music
> 
> ...


Oh I am not saying that one has to be fed garbage to enjoy quality meals, just that apparently there are some that do, or so that seemed to be the jist of the original comment. Actually, those fed garbage tend to want more of the same, as the immense popularity of pop music would tend to suggest.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Oh I am not saying that one has to be fed garbage to enjoy quality meals, just that apparently there are some that do, or so that seemed to be the jist of the original comment. Actually, those fed garbage tend to want more of the same, as the immense popularity of pop music would tend to suggest.


I absolutely agree

the more you feed somebody with low quality art, the more he wants it

the brain wash is an everyday act


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Under a blanket on the settee with my wife


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Remove the blanket and the wife and I totally agree with you.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

If we are listening to a particular favourite of hers e.g. Brahm's Violin Concerto then I would rather try to persuade a hungry lioness to be parted from it's latest kill.
She might also agree with your comments but directed at me!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

You are lucky your wife likes classical music.

I once dated a gal and she asked me what kind of music I like. After I replied, she shouted *"I hate classical music!!!* as if it was as repulsive as castor oil. Needless to say the relationship didn't last!


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

I believe classical music is most enjoyed at the moment you hear it whether it be in a sound-proofed listening room with your favourite wine or on the open road with Radio 3 on the go. 
All my most memorable listening experiences (most enjoyable?) were by chance switching on the radio, and it happened to be the beginning of Beethoven's Coriolan overture conducted by Furtwangler in a live 1943 recording: within a few minutes the room I was sitting in turned dark and swear the atmosphere changed with the power of that recording - I have never experienced anything like it before or since. On another occasion I switched on a recording of Sammons in Elgar's violin concerto - it was bliss from start to finish. So both musical experiences cost nothing but I will remember them for a lifetime.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

For sure the best listening is when you have reasonably good sound and you have no distractions from the listening experience.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

Florestan said:


> For sure the best listening is when you have reasonably good sound and you have no distractions from the listening experience.


Maybe it's when the listening experience distracts you from everyday life.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> For sure the best listening is when you have reasonably good sound and you have no distractions from the listening experience.


Agreed. I used to attend concerts regularly. Always the same thing. Chronic pneumonia. Rustling of program pages. Occasional talking during the music. Sitting between two 350 pounders. Fighting for the armrest, etc;

I finally wised up. Do all my listening at home alone on an excellent sound system. Never been happier!


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Alydon said:


> I believe classical music is most enjoyed at the moment you hear it whether it be in a sound-proofed listening room with your favourite wine or on the open road with Radio 3 on the go.
> All my most memorable listening experiences (most enjoyable?) were by chance switching on the radio, and it happened to be the beginning of Beethoven's Coriolan overture conducted by Furtwangler in a live 1943 recording: within a few minutes the room I was sitting in turned dark and swear the atmosphere changed with the power of that recording - I have never experienced anything like it before or since. On another occasion I switched on a recording of Sammons in Elgar's violin concerto - it was bliss from start to finish. So both musical experiences cost nothing but I will remember them for a lifetime.


I agree with you

these two specific times, I strongly believe that your psychological condition was such,
that you wanted to live such an experience.

I am sure that in order to have so powerful musical expriences,
a lot of parameters must be combined together at the same time.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Agreed. I used to attend concerts regularly. Always the same thing. Chronic pneumonia. Rustling of program pages. Occasional talking during the music. Sitting between two 350 pounders. Fighting for the armrest, etc;
> 
> I finally wised up. Do all my listening at home alone on an excellent sound system. Never been happier!


you too Brutus? hahaha

and you said you would protect clara


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> you too Brutus? hahaha
> 
> and you said you would protect clara


I did and I will. Just get your pneumonia shot 2 weeks before the concert.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Dimly lit room, glass of wine, good sound system disconnect the phone and doorbell, bliss.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I agree except for the dimly lit room.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

hpowders said:


> I agree except for the dimly lit room.


Yea, the room should only be candle lit so You don't pollute the power that Your amp sorely needs to render the musical gestalt! 

/ptr


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

ptr said:


> Yea, the room should only be candle lit so You don't pollute the power that Your amp sorely needs to render the musical gestalt!
> 
> /ptr


Yes, but I wouldn't want to deplete the oxygen supply in my listening room. I can be there for quite a long time!
I want the music to make me feel light headed, not my dying brain cells due to oxygen depletion.

It's always something!!!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

clara s said:


> I absolutely agree
> 
> the more you feed somebody with low quality art, the more he wants it
> 
> the brain wash is an everyday act


How have we managed to avoid it?


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

clara s said:


> I absolutely agree
> 
> the more you feed somebody with low quality art, the more he wants it
> 
> the brain wash is an everyday act


As Shakespeare said in Hamlet: "As if increase of appetite had grown by what it fed on."


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

science said:


> How have we managed to avoid it?


by resisting to everything, that looks and sounds "easy"

we want to see behind the "shop window"


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

Alydon said:


> As Shakespeare said in Hamlet: "As if increase of appetite had grown by what it fed on."


Shakespeare is top in quotes

something similar had told in Troilus and Cressida

"Then every thing includes itself in power, 
Power into will, will into appetite; 
And appetite, a universal wolf..."


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