# Schumann



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I think I am about to go through a "Schumann phase". The reason being, I have been listening to a lot of Schumann lately and like the emotion of his work. It took me quite a while to get used to it but now I don't think I could live without it.  
My favourite works by him are the concertos along with the fantasies and introduction and allegro appassionato for piano and orchestra.
Does anyone else share my feelings about Schumann?
What are your favourite works by him? Any stories and other anecdotes would also be nice.


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

I think there is a great number of us here at TC that share your exact sentiments towards, Schumann. I personally enjoy the man's music. It's full of hidden gems. I'm glad that are able to connect with his music on such an emotional level, and I think that you'll be pleasantly rewarded as you advance further in your exploration of his music. Some of my favorite works by Schumann include: The piano concerto, the violin concerto, the three string quartets, his Lieder and of course the symphonies. There is more that I could list, but I think for now I'll stop here.

Also, you may want to check out this thread if you already haven't. Novelette gives a thorough and well thought descriptions about the man and his music, which I think you'll enjoy greatly.

:cheers:

TPS


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

Listen to Maerchenbilder, Op. 113 and Maerchenerzaehlungen, Op. 132, they are fantastic chamber music compositions. Since January I have listened to most of his obscure compositions and I am very moved with them as well as with Schumann. Listen to the Four Marches, Op. 76, his violin sonatas, his Gesaenge der Fruehe, Op. 133 and whatever you come across.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Schumann is the archetypal tragic romantic. I like his music because it leans a little toward introspection compared to much of the romantic bombast of his time.

My favorite is the piano concerto (as long as it is not by Martha Argerich, sorry), and his symphonies. I am completely puzzled by the claim by some that his orchestration is lacking. I never knew what is meant by that. 

I can't say I care as much for his piano works, except Papillons which is an early work I think, and the Kinderschoenen (?) which are rather simple if I'm not mistaking them for something else. I need to spend more time with his more mature piano works, but what I have heard so far has not moved me much, probably through no fault of the music.

I think his Cello Concerto is vastly over-maligned. It has its moments.


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

And I recommend his Carnaval. Lovely music, which richly rewards listening and studying. And, as an extra added bonus, there's a brief but beautiful section called "Chopin"!!!!!!
Here's a performance by a chap who shows a lot of promise.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I hate Schumann. He's boring and his orchestration sounds like cats in heat.

[ sarcasm ]


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Klavierspieler said:


> I hate Schumann. He's boring and his orchestration sounds like cats in heat.
> 
> [ sarcasm ]


You're awesome. Just thought you should know.

That isn't at all sarcasm. I admire your admiration for the Great Schumann. I share it.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Weston said:


> My favorite is the piano concerto (as long as it is not by Martha Argerich, sorry), and his symphonies. I am completely puzzled by the claim by some that his orchestration is lacking. I never knew what is meant by that.










In these measures (the beginning of the recapitulation of Schumann's 3rd Symphony), we have the whole orchestra, winds, brass, and strings, asked to play triple _fortissimo_. If this direction is followed literally, the brass will overpower everyone else. Even if they pull back a little, the details of the inner voices will probably be lost, and give a murky impression, when one of power is desired. I can pretty much guarantee that the first tremolo eighth note in the first violins will not be heard at all, unless it is exaggerated by conductor and players.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> View attachment 16785
> 
> In these measures (the beginning of the recapitulation of Schumann's 3rd Symphony), we have the whole orchestra, winds, brass, and strings, asked to play triple _fortissimo_ if this direction is followed literally, the brass will overpower everyone else. Even if they pull back a little, the details of the inner voices will probably be lost, and give a murky impression, when one of power is desired. I can pretty much guarantee that the first tremolo eighth note in the first violins will not be heard at all, unless it is exaggerated by conductor and players.


There's something I could say here, but I think I won't.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Klavierspieler said:


> There's something I could say here, but I think I won't.


I think you would prove your ignorance of anything Mahler if you did, so it's good you refrained.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

I have no love for Schumann, the composer..  I like him as a music critic and a writer though..


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I was just going to ask, are orchestra musicians incapable of achieving balance? Any pianist could tell you that dynamics are often relative. When I play with strings, I have to keep in mind that my fortissimo should be realized as something like mezzo forte. Are horns and trombones incapable of this? Or does it just make that much difference that they are in an orchestral setting?


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Even I have to admit, despite my admiration, nay, idolization of Schumann, that his orchestration is often heavy--often awkward.

In his little book of advisory statements to young composers, Schumann advised becoming very familiar with the particular timbre of each instrument, so that the best effect may be employed that communicates a particular sentiment [Romantic Era mindset, _par excellence_], yet it is curious that Schumann often did not take this advice himself in his symphonies.

Still, let it be acknowledged that his other works that employ a full orchestra, his C Minor Mass, his Requiem, his two oratorios, and Genoveva, do not suffer from this orchestral heaviness. In fact, he brilliantly diversifies the melodic and harmonic obligations to the various instruments to achieve impressive effect.

The symphonies, however, are challenging. The full extent of this drawback is exaggerated when these works are performed by a full, modern orchestra. The orchestras to which Schumann had access in Leipzig and in Duesseldorf [although Duesseldorf's orchestra was the larger of the two] were not the full orchestras that we know today. Historically-informed performances reveal a surprising subtlety to Schumann's music and orchestration, especially those of Norrington. In the hands of fully staffed modern orchestras, the effect is often quite ghastly. But Schumann targeted his writing for those resources that were directly available to him. Notwithstanding, the complaint still holds.

Schumann suffered from both hearing difficulties and sight difficulties. Both deficiencies, as well as a very passive conducting style in the face of an ill-tempered orchestra, conspired to make Schumann a woefully unsuccessful conductor, as well.

But listen to Genoveva, the Requiem, the Missa Sacra, and the oratorios. You will find often pristinely balanced orchestration, even _with_ modern orchestras.

Mahlerian, the one work that has the heaviest orchestration is surely the Manfred Overture. Speaking as one greatly attached to this work, I can be candid about its deficiencies. The other concert overtures are fine enough, though.

As for the piano concerto, I recommend the performance by Alfred Brendel. It's the greatest rendering, in my opinion. Many have complained that Brendel's tone is muted and un-Romantic, but I beg to differ. His even approach has both great heart and sureness; likewise the orchestral counterpart is played beautifully. No fortefortissimo, but evenness instead. The bonus to that album is that it also includes Brendel's performance of the Op. 17 Fantasie; again, the finest recording in existence, in my opinion--and I've listened to many, if not most.

These deficiencies do not make me think less of Schumann. He was an extraordinarily accomplished composer, given to almost super-human bouts of productivity [although chronology may be deceiving when based upon the number of works published annually]. Further, his harmonic inventiveness never ceases to astonish. Truly a giant.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Klavierspieler said:


> I was just going to ask, are orchestra musicians incapable of achieving balance? Any pianist could tell you that dynamics are often relative. When I play with strings, I have to keep in mind that my fortissimo should be realized as something like mezzo forte. Are horns and trombones incapable of this? Or does it just make that much difference that they are in an orchestral setting?


Horns and Trumpets are just naturally loud. It's difficult to play softly and in tune, and one's first inclination upon seeing a triple F is to blast away as much as possible. All that aside, the orchestration is somewhat inherently imbalanced, and it might just be better to go with it, because then you can get by with a powerful impression.

I should add here that if one uses period instruments for Schumann, the tone colors are less homogeneous and will stand apart better. He had a keen ear for interesting orchestral sounds in his quieter passages. See the slow movement of the 4th for an example of that. That said, his tuttis have more or less the same scoring problem as Bruckner's; too much music scored similarly for too long.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> I think I am about to go through a "Schumann phase". The reason being, I have been listening to a lot of Schumann lately and like the emotion of his work. It took me quite a while to get used to it but now I don't think I could live without it.
> My favourite works by him are the concertos along with the fantasies and introduction and allegro appassionato for piano and orchestra.
> Does anyone else share my feelings about Schumann?
> What are your favourite works by him? Any stories and other anecdotes would also be nice.


I believe i caught the same thing you did. I've been eating, breathing, sleeping his violin concerto for the last few weeks now.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Pyotr said:


> I believe i caught the same thing you did. I've been eating, breathing, sleeping his violin concerto for the last few weeks now.


It's a very wholesome diet, indeed!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I had no regard for Schumann at all outside the piano Concerto. Then I started listening to his solo piano music. Wonderful!
Recommend: Carnival (Rachmaninov, Michelangeli or Cziffra)
Symphonic Studies (Cherkassky, Richter, Anda)
Kreislerania (Cherkassky, Lupu, Horowitz, Argerich, Anda)
Fantasie (Richter, Pollini, Argerich, Anda)
Davidsbundlertanze (Anda)
Kinderzeden (Lupu, Horowitz, Argerich)

That should keep you going. It's wonderful!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> I believe i caught the same thing you did. I've been eating, breathing, sleeping his violin concerto for the last few weeks now.


I also absolutely love the violin concerto, I also like the one by brahms.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I particularly like this recording by Argerich of Des Abends and a very exciting Aufschwung: 





I also love Op. 26 by Alicia de Larroccha:


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> I believe i caught the same thing you did. I've been eating, breathing, sleeping his violin concerto for the last few weeks now.


Nice lifestyle! If I were you I'd also add in a bit of his cello concerto into each meal.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> I also absolutely love the violin concerto, I also like the one by brahms.


I listened to Schumann's violin concerto this morning, at lunch, then just now. I still don't know what note is coming next. It seems to mock me for trying to predict where it's going saying: "haha you'll never catch me!"

I like Braham's too. I noticed that the Philadelphia orchestra is performing that concerto next month. I believe, it's Gil Shaham. I'm not a subscriber but two hours before each performance they release a group $10 tickets for the general public. I took advantage of this deal a few months ago when they were performing Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries and sat in the second row center. This will be the first violin concerto that I have ever attended.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Pyotr said:


> I like Brahms' too. I noticed that the Philadelphia orchestra is performing that concerto next month. I believe, it's Gil Shaham. I'm not a subscriber but two hours before each performance they release a group $10 tickets for the general public. I took advantage of this deal a few months ago when they were performing Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries and sat in the second row center. This will be the first violin concerto that I have ever attended.


I saw Brahms' Violin Concerto performed a few years ago in NYC, it was an incredible performance, although the name of the performer escapes me at the moment.

I would certainly travel to another city in order to hear Schumann's violin concerto performed! Every few months, I leaf through the programs of various orchestras in the US. But alas, I have not yet seen this concerto on the programs. =\


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

I am currently playing Schumann's Fantasiestucke Op. 12 (includes Des Abends and Aufschwung) and am obsessed with them. He made character pieces into an important genre in my opinion.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Schumann: Piano Concerto > Cello Concerto > Violin Concerto

All of his symphony have their charms and emotions. I love them all.
His Vocal/Lieder works are supreme.
I need to examine more of his chamber music.


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## OboeKnight (Jan 25, 2013)

I like...love his Three Romances  the best version is obviously with the oboe.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

Speaking of which, my iPod shuffled to a cello version of the Romances the other day, and I didn't even know I had it. How did I miss it before? I think that's my favourite version now. (The oboe one is good too of course. )

I don't think his piano sonatas have been mentioned here yet. They are some of my favourites of all time, especially the third one.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Here's some Schumann for our friend OboeKnight:


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Kivimees said:


> Here's some Schumann for our friend OboeKnight:
> 
> View attachment 16911


Interesting! I didn't even know that Schumann recomposed his Violin Sonata in A Minor, Op. 105 for oboe as well.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Feathers said:


> Speaking of which, my iPod shuffled to a cello version of the Romances the other day, and I didn't even know I had it. How did I miss it before? I think that's my favourite version now. (The oboe one is good too of course. )
> 
> I don't think his piano sonatas have been mentioned here yet. They are some of my favourites of all time, especially the third one.


Lucky you.........


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

I have read a lot of people talk about how they dislike Schumann, but I personally enjoy his work (what I have heard of it).


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

chrisco97 said:


> I have read a lot of people talk about how they dislike Schumann, but I personally enjoy his work (what I have heard of it).


Schumann's music is sometimes quite difficult to appreciate. He doesn't have a particularly conventional sense of melody. I spent most of my life actively disliking Schumann's music. But with far greater study of his music, I grew to adore it. These days, I am a devoted adorer--or obsessed. Either way, I am dedicated.

As for those who dislike Schumann, it's fair enough. There are composers whose music I deeply dislike. Variety is the spice of life.


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