# Ye Wimbledon Watchers...



## Ingélou

Wimbledon 2013.

Come on, all you tennis fans - who do you think will be the Men's Singles Champion? The Women's Singles Champion? The Champions of the various doubles matches?

And it would be nice to have your reaction to the matches & players (& the Great British Weather) as we go along.

Enjoy - we will!


----------



## Ingélou

I wonder if this is the year that Andy Murray will finally win Wimbledon...?
(I wonder, but being British - both Xhim and meX he & I - I doubt it!  )


----------



## Kieran

If he gets to the second week, Nadal will win it. Only injury or grass-rust will stop him.

And I know, the moaning ninnies will berate me now and say, "huh! He's seeded FIFTH! He might face Federer, Djokovic and Murray in successive rounds."

My reply is prompt and articulate: "So what?"


----------



## MagneticGhost

I hope for a Murray win. My heart says Murray but my head says Nadal. He's a man on a mission after being out for all that time.
Whatever - it should be über exciting.
You can never rule out Fed. Djokovic is always top notch.
Murray proved last summer he can compete with the best.
Hope the big four all make it to the semis if that's possible with Nadal seeded fifth.


----------



## Kieran

MagneticGhost said:


> Hope the big four all make it to the semis if that's possible with Nadal seeded fifth.


Yeah, he could get #4 seed, David Ferrer, in the quarters, which is how I think it should be (but whether it will or not...)...


----------



## Ukko

Serena's matches don't seem to be of interest here. ?


----------



## Kieran

Hilltroll72 said:


> Serena's matches don't seem to be of interest here. ?


Women's tennis is really poor at the mo, far as I can see. Serena is great and should win Wimbo, but the rest are a flotsum bunch of shankers and shrinking violets. It would be a huge upset if anyone had the temerity to withstand Miss Williams. The only one with the spite to do so - imho - is Azeranka...


----------



## Crudblud

I think the quality of women's tennis would be improved greatly if they didn't scream every time they hit the ball. If they're in pain they should stop playing, and if they're not in pain they should shut up. Same goes for any men who do the same, just in case anyone was planning a tennis themed repeat of the Jennifer Higdon thread.


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Serena's matches don't seem to be of interest here. ?


I can't bear her at any price,she should be in the men's singles.


----------



## Ukko

moody said:


> I can't bear her at any price,she should be in the men's singles.


Hah. A strong athlete, maybe not enough endurance to compete with the top men. I find her quite admirable.


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Hah. A strong athlete, maybe not enough endurance to compete with the top men. I find her quite admirable.


Yes,but you're a bit kinky---she'd devour you.


----------



## deggial

Serena is a great athlete. I'm surprised the decade + Williams domination of the game did not inspire other players to go for the game of strength (not that it's a pretty game to watch, it's just I'd like to see players give her a run for the money).


----------



## DavidA

I do not know because my wife insists on having the matches on. There is an incessant bang bang of ball on racket and interminable games that never seem to finish. Then there is the agony of watching a British player get so far but no further. They should ban British players from Wimbledon to save the public all that agony.

Having said that I wish Andy the best of luck. He will sure need it! It would be an incredible achievement to win it in the face of Nadal, et al.


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> I can't bear her at any price,she should be in the men's singles.


Moody, she's there to play tennis, something she does rather well!


----------



## Ingélou

Ye WW, who is your favourite commentator? I rather like John McEnroe...


----------



## ProudSquire

I'm rooting for Novak Djokovic even though Federer is who I really want to win. Albeit, if Nadal continues to play well I don't really see anyone beating him. Murray's time is due, I'm just not convinced that it'll be this time around. :{

Serena and Sharapova for the women's finals with Serena edging Sharapova for the win. 

I hard pay attention to the announcers, but this time around I'm going to try to. :]


----------



## moody

DavidA said:


> Moody, she's there to play tennis, something she does rather well!


But not this year--she's withdrawn !!!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Ye WW, who is your favourite commentator? I rather like John McEnroe...


He's brilliant and so is Jimmy Connors when he can be persuaded to come over.
As long as I don't have to listen to the awful Andrew Castle who was a lousy player and behaves like a twelve year old schoolboy.


----------



## Ukko

moody said:


> But not this year--she's withdrawn !!!


Nah, that was Venus; she's been fighting injuries for awhile now.


----------



## Ingélou

moody said:


> I can't bear her at any price,she should be in the men's singles.


It's wittily put, but it's unjust. Serena is tall and strong and has a competitive attitude, but she has a feminine appearance, demeanour and voice. You know, that's the sort of criticism women have faced throughout history, you Victorian patriarch, you...


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Nah, that was Venus; she's been fighting injuries for awhile now.


Damn and I was glad,Venus is a spent force.


----------



## Ingélou

If a final takes place between the Championship Holder, someone who's won it for a number of years, and a new kid on the block, do you root for the old pro, wanting them to break a few records and not be disappointed, or do you want the younger challenger to knock them for six, regime change? I am always torn.

My favourite moment in Wimbledon history was when an old battler, Goran Ivanisevitch*, finally got his day in the sun. 

*Edit: Ivanisevic. (Don't want another Sergei/Sergey moment...)


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> It's wittily put, but it's unjust. Serena is tall and strong and has a competitive attitude, but she has a feminine appearance, demeanour and voice. You know, that's the sort of criticism women have faced throughout history, you Victorian patriarch, you...


It really has nothing to do with it I suppose,but your description doesn't add up to me.


----------



## Taggart

Ingenue said:


> My favourite moment in Wimbledon history was when an old battler, Goran Ivanisevitch*, finally got his day in the sun.


After all the rain delays against Tim .... (in the semis)


----------



## Ingélou

Taggart said:


> After all the rain delays against Tim .... (in the semis)


Isn't it just great that they've got a roof now!


----------



## Kieran

TheProudSquire said:


> I'm rooting for Novak Djokovic even though Federer is who I really want to win.


Ah a Federer fan casting a spoiler vote! _Anyone but Ralph Nadal! _ 

I think as long as Nadal stays in the draw, Federer's chances grow slimmer, but if anyone can stop Rafa, it might be Novak. It'll depend, I think, on Nadal. If he's still sharp after his recent schedule, he'll be tough to stop. But then, so will they all. This might be the bloodiest Wimbo in years.

I like the BBC commentators, but they're beginning to catch the dreadful American habit of yapping too much. I had to switch Jim Courier off during the French Open final because you could sense during play that he couldn't wait for a point to end so he could finish his meaningless dribble. My favourite commentators were Dan Maskill - of course - and John Barrett, but I like McEnroe too, and Connors was great the year he sat in the booth...


----------



## Ingélou

There is one commentator - can't remember who - whose main point is that a player needs 'belief' in order to win. Whatever faults occur, it's because the tennis ace didn't have enough 'belief'.  I always feel like screaming at the screen, 'No matter how much 'belief' he has, if he can't serve for nuts and his backhand is rubbish, it just won't work, you moron!'

But of course, I don't. I'm British, dammit.


----------



## Kieran

Ingenue said:


> There is one commentator - can't remember who - whose main point is that a player needs 'belief' in order to win. Whatever faults occur, it's because the tennis ace didn't have enough 'belief'.  I always feel like screaming at the screen, 'No matter how much 'belief' he has, if he can't serve for nuts and his backhand is rubbish, it just won't work, you moron!'
> 
> But of course, I don't. I'm British, dammit.


:lol:

Of course, you're both right. How many times have we seen players falter against a player with lesser ability, and it's down to confidence? I think a lot of Federer's difficulty against Nadal is down to the fact that Rafa can block out so much stuff and focus in the heat, whereas Roger gets intimidated by him. But when it comes to winning majors, I think it's largely what's between the ears that wins them. Look at the transformation in Novak in 2011, compared to previous years. It was mainly that he copper-fastened his brain and stuck with it, believing he could win. He was brittle before that, retiring from matches with the most lame excuses...


----------



## Vaneyes

I don't like Serena, but she's a beast and should win.

Joker should be back in full force, after the clay loss to you-know-who.

Speaking of Rafa, why doesn't he demand that his sponsor supply him shorts that fit. He's picking wedgies throughout his matches, and that does bug me.

Federer, I have a soft spot for. He should play with bigger racket heads. There have been far too many rim-shots in his advancing years.

Enjoy! :tiphat:


----------



## Ingélou

I've noticed the Rafa habit. It's become a superstition of his, almost - he does it most when he's under stress. But it is *most* unbecoming!


----------



## Kieran

It's the oddest thing I've ever seen in tennis. Disgusting, actually...


----------



## deggial

eh, I'd take the wedgie over his playing style - so boring to watch.


----------



## Kieran

deggial said:


> eh, I'd take the wedgie over his playing style - so boring to watch.


Oh no! Nadal is the most exhilarating of them all. All that muscle and industry, the rubber-faced intense frown, the _Harrison-Fordness _of his integrity, the guy is great to watch - especially when he does this...


----------



## deggial

Kieran said:


> All that muscle and industry, the rubber-faced intense frown,


all that sweat and labour exhausts me! gimme the coolness and accuracy of (peak) Federer any day.

Nadal = the Beethoven of tennis


----------



## Kieran

deggial said:


> all that sweat and labour exhausts me! gimme the coolness and accuracy of (peak) Federer any day.
> 
> Nadal = the Beethoven of tennis


That's true - and when he faces Federer it's the only time I ever prefer Beethoven to Mozart! :devil:


----------



## deggial

I can't believe you just said that!

:lol:


----------



## neoshredder

I'm rooting for Nadal but expecting Djokovic to win it.


----------



## Vaneyes

Not many "Andy" takers here. Currently, 2nd betting favorite. 

View attachment 19860


----------



## ProudSquire

_Rafael Nadal getting seeded No. 5 at Wimbledon_

Hmmm. This doesn't bode well for Federer and Murray. If Federer's unlucky enough and he has to face Nadal in the quarters, I really hope he brings his A game. Murray is going to need all the support he can get if he has to face Rafa in the quarters, but then again, if Rafa goes against Djokovic, I fully expect Djokovic to walk away victorious.

Imagine Ferre vs. Federer in the semis.......


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> There is one commentator - can't remember who - whose main point is that a player needs 'belief' in order to win. Whatever faults occur, it's because the tennis ace didn't have enough 'belief'.  I always feel like screaming at the screen, 'No matter how much 'belief' he has, if he can't serve for nuts and his backhand is rubbish, it just won't work, you moron!'
> 
> But of course, I don't. I'm British, dammit.


Well naturally I always do.


----------



## Pyotr

I think djokovic will win and also the us open. Shame that Rafa will spoil his grand slam. I would like to see somebody do that in my lifetime.


----------



## Taggart

Pyotr said:


> I think djokovic will win and also the us open. Shame that Rafa will spoil his grand slam. I would like to see somebody do that in my lifetime.


The joys of age. I've seen it done four times now -Laver in 62 and 69, Margaret Smith Court in 70 and Steffi Graf in 88 (the only non Australian in the open era).


----------



## Vaneyes

Sharapova and The Beast are ready to ...rummmmble!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sharapova-sends-verbal-shot-serena-150141656--ten.html


----------



## Air

Go Roger! #18 on the floor that you own!


----------



## Skilmarilion

I second anything and everything already mentioned by Kieran.  Rafa being seeded 5th will only make that desire burn even more.

Vamos!


----------



## Ingélou

The weather's not looking too great, is it?


----------



## Taggart

Ingenue said:


> The weather's not looking too great, is it?


I know only 2 inches of rain a day - not really what you expect of Wimbledon. Mark, we haven't had a drought recently so the rain making part of the festival has probably been toned down.

Seriously, our sympathies to all those affected by serious weather events.


----------



## Pyotr

Ingenue said:


> The weather's not looking too great, is it?


Rain in England? I am shocked.


----------



## Pyotr

Well, that was a bad start for Rafa. What a wake up call. Not the same player off of clay.


----------



## Pyotr

Rafa is down 0-2 in sets. omg!


----------



## Air

Rafa is done in straight sets... wow.


----------



## Ingélou

And Murray is through. Hope springs eternal in the human breast...


----------



## Kieran

Darcis was excellent, and Rafa looked shell-shocked. Great win for the Belgian geezer, but it's punctured my balloon a bit, I must admit. I s'pose I'll root for Murray now.

Och aye, Muzza!


----------



## Taggart

Gallant little Belgian!


----------



## Ingélou

Ah here we are, first day of Wimbledon, and so perishing cold we've had to put the central heating on...


----------



## DavidA

I thought Nadal was a great sportsman. He was obviously in trouble with his knee but refused to talk about at the press conference afterwards. Did not want to detract from his opponent's achievement. Good man!


----------



## Vaneyes

Unfortunately, I missed the match everyone's talking about. Could we please have the wedgie-picking count? 

"I cannot see past Djokovic and Murray as the two finalists." -- Boris Becker


----------



## Ingélou

We only saw the ending of the Rafa match. We were watching Murray when his match was transferred to 'the red button' & we followed him there, rather cross that he'd been shunted. At that point Rafa was down a set & a bit, but we had no reason to think he'd be beaten. Makes you wonder whether the BBC keep a little old lady with a crystal ball in the back room...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Golly, I don't take any of my sporting fanhoods _that_ seriously, but I thought Rafa's loss was really sad. I've seen that look of helplessness in his eye before. I really, really hope this was just a one-off and not a repeat of last year's lay-off.

But, all the credit to Darcis! Being a lower-ranked tennis player can be unforgiving, and this is a phenomenal moment for him pretty late in his career. He played beautifully. :tiphat:

In the meanwhile, Go Jo!


----------



## Air

Jo will always be my sentimental favorite until he wins his first Grand Slam. I really wanted it to be at Roland Garros, but at this point I'll really be satisfied with anything.

I hated how Federer, Murray, Tsonga, and Nadal were all on the same side of the Wimbledon bracket whereas Djokovic and Ferrer basically got (get) a free ride until the semis.

Nadal getting bounced changes everything though. Everything. Biggest winner is Federer, without a doubt. He won't have to face anyone tough until the semis now, giving him some much needed rest.

I'm not going to speak too soon though. Stranger things have happened.


----------



## Pyotr

Air said:


> Biggest winner is Federer, without a doubt. He won't have to face anyone tough until the semis now, giving him some much needed rest.


Djokovic has to be pretty happy too.


----------



## belfastboy

*Rafal Nadal*

Rafal Nadal - oh dear....Tennis is dead :trp:


----------



## neoshredder

Pyotr said:


> Djokovic has to be pretty happy too.


Murray will beat Federer.


----------



## Ingélou

May you prove a true prophet, neoshredder!


----------



## Kieran

Air said:


> J Biggest winner is Federer, without a doubt. He won't have to face anyone tough until the semis now, giving him some much needed rest.


Absolutely. Let's face it, Federer isn't winning any majors as long as Nadal is still in the draw. Of his 17, he's beaten Nadal only twice to take the title - the last time way back in 2007. I think it was a brutal draw for both Fed and Nadal, but Roger is 31 as well, so he'll be glad that match isn't gonna happen...


----------



## Taggart

belfastboy said:


> Rafal Nadal - oh dear....Tennis is dead :trp:


Rather like Mark Twain on reading his obituary, I am sure that many will say that such reports are exaggerated. :cheers:

Shame that even if Murray wins, we *still * won't have had an *English *champion for 77 years (and counting).


----------



## moody

************************** phooey.


Don't anybody dare give this a"like" !


----------



## moody

Laura Robson did well today beat Kirilenko---no mean feat !.


----------



## Ingélou

moody said:


> ************************** phooey.
> 
> Don't anybody dare give this a"like" !


Oh well, who could resist an invitation like that?  (Not that I've any idea what your post was about....)


----------



## Pyotr

Taggart said:


> Rather like Mark Twain on reading his obituary, I am sure that many will say that such reports are exaggerated. :cheers:
> 
> Shame that even if Murray wins, we *still * won't have had an *English *champion for 77 years (and counting).


Well, at least it will explode that myth(propagated by the English) that Scotland is the worst tennis playing nation on earth.


----------



## Rehydration

There's one commentator that I find very annoying--I can't think of names right now, but if I were watching, I'd be able to.
I hope for Djokovic in men's and Azarenka in women's. Serena I find deathly annoying (no offense).


----------



## moody

Rehydration said:


> There's one commentator that I find very annoying--I can't think of names right now, but if I were watching, I'd be able to.
> I hope for Djokovic in men's and Azarenka in women's. Serena I find deathly annoying (no offense).


Probably the dreadful Andrew Castle and I agree about Serena (plenty of offense).


----------



## Ingélou

Andy Murray beat Lu - in 3 straight sets, he's through! 

But what a day. Sharapova is out, and players are falling left right and centre & ceding, like lovely Tsonga. The commentators are calling it 'Withdrawal Wednesday'!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Andy Murray beat Lu - in 3 straight sets, he's through!
> 
> But what a day. Sharapova is out, and players are falling left right and centre & ceding, like lovely Tsonga. The commentators are calling it 'Withdrawal Wednesday'!


Oh no,not my Maria !!


----------



## Kieran

Ingenue said:


> Andy Murray beat Lu - in 3 straight sets, he's through!
> 
> But what a day. Sharapova is out, and players are falling left right and centre & ceding, like lovely Tsonga. The commentators are calling it 'Withdrawal Wednesday'!


Yeah, it's bizarre! What happened to Tsonga. And was Maria injured too? Darcis withdrew to complete a perfect W - he beat Ralph then nobody beat him. Well done, feller! You just ruined my Wimbledon!


----------



## moody

Kieran said:


> Yeah, it's bizarre! What happened to Tsonga. And was Maria injured too? Darcis withdrew to complete a perfect W - he beat Ralph then nobody beat him. Well done, feller! You just ruined my Wimbledon!


Azarenka fell over and blames the courts--I thought she would know how to play on grass.


----------



## Air

I heard Vika is injured too... this is unreal.


----------



## sospiro

Ingenue said:


> Andy Murray beat Lu - in 3 straight sets, he's through!
> 
> But what a day. Sharapova is out, and players are falling left right and centre & ceding, like lovely Tsonga. The commentators are calling it 'Withdrawal Wednesday'!


So pleased the 'Grunter' is out. I can't watch when she's playing.

Federer on the ropes but fighting back!!


----------



## Ingélou

Federer goes out - as Sergiy Stakhovsky said, when asked to explain how he managed to beat Roger, it must have been 'magic'. You have to feel sorry to see a great champion disappointed but Sergiy (what a spelling!) seems a very engaging character. I suppose he'll be knocked out in the next round - that's what always seems to happen after an upset like that. 
Exciting, though.


----------



## DavidA

Hey! Federer goes! What a game!

Opens everything up!


----------



## DavidA

sospiro said:


> So pleased the 'Grunter' is out. I can't watch when she's playing.
> 
> Federer on the ropes but fighting back!!


The only problem is the lass who beat her grunts even louder!


----------



## Rehydration

Geez.
I hope Nishikori wins his next match so at least one of my favorites will have succeeded.


----------



## Kieran

Wasn't Stak amazing? Serve volleyed like Pete! They say S&V tennis can't be played anymore, well it just was! He was brilliant. Federer had s good run, so no shame there.

Psst! Stak's missus was a babe! :kiss:


----------



## deggial

Kieran said:


> Wasn't Stak amazing? Serve volleyed like Pete! They say S&V tennis can't be played anymore, well it just was!


I love S&V, none of that back of the court back and forth malarkey for me; serve and bury it!



sospiro said:


> So pleased the 'Grunter' is out. I can't watch when she's playing.


never liked her attitude and has been a letdown as an athlete - good riddance!

I'm curious how far Robson manages


----------



## Kieran

What about Stak's wife, eh? The *real *revelation! :kiss:


----------



## Pyotr

They may as well stop play and hand the trophies to Serena and Novak.


----------



## Kieran

Pyotr said:


> They may as well stop play and hand the trophies to Serena and Novak.


Och nae! Wurrabout Muzza?


----------



## neoshredder

Murray's draw opening nicely. Fed lost!


----------



## Kieran

neoshredder said:


> Murray's draw opening nicely. Fed lost!


And Tsonga's gone too - potential QF opponent...


----------



## deggial

Kieran said:


> What about Stak's wife, eh? The *real *revelation! :kiss:


:lol: keep focused! I know I like cats, but she's a bit too much of a kitten for me...


----------



## Kieran

deggial said:


> :lol: keep focused! I know I like cats, but she's a bit too much of a kitten for me...


She is a kitten, isn't she? Meow!


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> Wasn't Stak amazing? Serve volleyed like Pete! They say S&V tennis can't be played anymore, well it just was! He was brilliant. Federer had s good run, so no shame there.
> 
> Psst! Stak's missus was a babe! :kiss:


Agreed on all fronts.  

He played wonderfully. Not sure I've seen anyone so clinical at the net against a top 10 player, let alone Roger at Wimbledon. Also, it felt like his 1st serve went in ... every time! Most impressive - he played some spectacular points when down break and set points in the match, and wasn't afraid to keep attacking the net. Bravo, sir. I hope he goes far.


----------



## Kieran

Skilmarilion said:


> Agreed on all fronts.
> 
> He played wonderfully. Not sure I've seen anyone so clinical at the net against a top 10 player, let alone Roger at Wimbledon. Also, it felt like his 1st serve went in ... every time! Most impressive - he played some spectacular points when down break and set points in the match, and wasn't afraid to keep attacking the net. Bravo, sir. I hope he goes far.


Exactly! On set point down in the 4th, he came rushing the net. Principles adhered to under fire. I thought he was magnificent, a throwback, actually, to old S&V tennis, which was great...


----------



## Vaneyes

Need we say anything more? 

View attachment 20237


----------



## neoshredder

Yep expecting a Murrovic Final. Hoping Murray wins of course.


----------



## Op.123

Strawberries and cream or else ye shall loose ye kneecaps. So... All ye Wibeldon watchers beware... Ye wouldn't want to loose ye knees now... Would ye?


----------



## Op.123

Burroughs said:


> Strawberries and cream or else ye shall loose ye kneecaps. So... All ye Wibeldon watchers beware... Ye wouldn't want to loose ye knees know... Would ye?


.....................


----------



## Taggart

Burroughs said:


> Strawberries and cream or else ye shall loose ye kneecaps. So... All ye Wibeldon watchers beware... Ye wouldn't want to loose ye knees now... Would ye?


Lets all have a knees up for Murray!


----------



## Kieran

Taggart said:


> Lets all have a knees up for Murray!


Rafa might decline to join in on this one. Don't think his knees could bear up to it...


----------



## Pyotr

Rain doesn't seem to be a factor this year, which is cool.


----------



## Ingélou

Pyotr said:


> Rain doesn't seem to be a factor this year, which is cool.


It wasn't a factor - till *you said it*!


----------



## Vaneyes

*Andy* to play *The Beast*? Stay tuned. 

http://espn.go.com/tennis/wimbledon...-wimbledon-andy-murray-says-a-match-vs-serena


----------



## Pyotr

Breakfast at Wimbledon.


----------



## Pyotr

Ingenue said:


> It wasn't a factor - till *you said it*!


So, so, so, sorry!


----------



## Kieran

Well done Pyotr! I was enjoying that match between Sharapova's bloke and some nobody....then it rained! :devil:


----------



## Vaneyes

"Must we pose with ball persons?"

View attachment 20268


----------



## Air

Serena/Petra
Nole/Andy

I'll put money on it.


----------



## Sonata

I haven't had the opportunity to watch this time around, but my husband updates me on the news. Astounded by the upsets this year!


----------



## Ingélou

The latest thing is a jokey reference to a match between Andy Murray and Serena Williams based on Twitter. Better not to happen, I think - whatever the final score there are too many opportunities for humiliation on both sides.


----------



## Ingélou

Laura Robson's through - hurray, hurrah, hurroo.
God save the Queen, Rule Britannia, and There'll always be an England!
:lol:


----------



## Kieran

I think Serena should play Murray - but only if his ankles are tied together and he plays left handed. She'd win a game in that one.

Sharapova's bloke is out! Ah well, ya can't have everything...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Laura marches on. Quality stuff.

Didn't know until recently that she has Aussie blood in her veins though. Awkward, much?


----------



## Kieran

Skilmarilion said:


> Laura marches on. Quality stuff.
> 
> Didn't know until recently that she has Aussie blood in her veins though. Awkward, much?


I didn't know that! She played well today, didn't she? I have to say, BBC commentators are hilariously partisan in the box. You could almost imagine them frothing at the mouth and doing jerking hand signals at her opponents like football fans...


----------



## Taggart

Skilmarilion said:


> Laura marches on. Quality stuff.
> 
> Didn't know until recently that she has Aussie blood in her veins though. Awkward, much?


Not really no more than Rusedski being mainly Canadian or the fact that we failed to give Djokovic British Citizenship.

Robson was born on 21 January 1994 in Melbourne, Australia, the third child of Australian parents Andrew, an oil executive with Royal Dutch Shell,and Kathy Robson, a sports coach and former professional basketball player. Robson and her family moved from Melbourne to Singapore when she was 18 months old, and then to the United Kingdom when she was six.

Thankfully, that means she has an English accent.


----------



## Kieran

Taggart said:


> Not really no more than Rusedski being mainly Canadian or the fact that we failed to give Djokovic British Citizenship.


Did Djokovic ask for a British passport? He always wears his Serbian patriotism so loudly (from his tax haven hideaway in Monte Carlo)...


----------



## Taggart

No but the Brits went after him.


----------



## Ingélou

Murray wins again, straight sets. Let's hear a *huzza* for *Muzza*!


----------



## moody

Skilmarilion said:


> Laura marches on. Quality stuff.
> 
> Didn't know until recently that she has Aussie blood in her veins though. Awkward, much?


So--I've got German,Irish and English blood in mine but I could have played for England.
Know many pure bloods do you and coming to think of it what is Aussie blood --it's from all over >


----------



## moody

Taggart said:


> Not really no more than Rusedski being mainly Canadian or the fact that we failed to give Djokovic British Citizenship.
> 
> Robson was born on 21 January 1994 in Melbourne, Australia, the third child of Australian parents Andrew, an oil executive with Royal Dutch Shell,and Kathy Robson, a sports coach and former professional basketball player. Robson and her family moved from Melbourne to Singapore when she was 18 months old, and then to the United Kingdom when she was six.
> 
> Thankfully, that means she has an English accent.


I would suppose that Rusedski is mainly Polish. My family are from Canada but I didn't mention it because like Australia it's not a race is it?


----------



## Ingélou

Rusedski's mother was from Dewsbury, reet. So ey oop, why shouldn't 'e choose to be British?


----------



## Taggart

moody said:


> I would suppose that Rusedski is mainly Polish. My family are from Canada but I didn't mention it because like Australia it's not a race is it?


The mother was English, hence he could play for England the father was Polish \ Ukrainian. I think the only race in Canada (or Australia) is the one to get out of the place!


----------



## Skilmarilion

moody said:


> So--I've got German,Irish and English blood in mine but I could have played for England.
> Know many pure bloods do you and coming to think of it what is Aussie blood --it's from all over >


Didn't mean to derail this thread - just stating a fact which I think is interesting given the increasing occurrence of British athletes being born abroad, a la Kevin Pietersen, Mo Farah etc. This is just another part of the beauty of multiculturalism in this country, imo.

However, I could've done without Rusedski representing the UK!


----------



## Pyotr

Ingenue said:


> The latest thing is a jokey reference to a match between Andy Murray and Serena Williams based on Twitter. Better not to happen, I think - whatever the final score there are too many opportunities for humiliation on both sides.


If I had to choose one American tennis player who I thought might have a chance against Andy, it would be probably be Serena. But having them play is a pretty silly idea. For what? If it's for some charity, why can't Serena open up her checkbook and write a check to that charity, she makes $10 million a year in endorsements. 
If they were going to do it as a fun thing, it would be more entertaining is she played Pete Sampras or John McEnroe or Jimmy Conners.


----------



## Vaneyes

For the whippersnappers, there is BOS precedent. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)


----------



## moody

Skilmarilion said:


> Didn't mean to derail this thread - just stating a fact which I think is interesting given the increasing occurrence of British athletes being born abroad, a la Kevin Pietersen, Mo Farah etc. This is just another part of the beauty of multiculturalism in this country, imo.
> 
> However, I could've done without Rusedski representing the UK!


Now what has he done to upset you ?Mo Farrah's father was born in England and although Mo was born in Somalia he was here from the age of eight.
Kevin Pietersen's mother is English,he moved here because of his disagreement re: the racial quota in South Africa.
My wife was Welsh so I suppose my children could appear for Wales,England,Ireland Canada,and Germany.
My opinion of multiculturalism would probably get me banned.
But you sound as if these people mentioned bear some sort of guilt.


----------



## moody

Pyotr said:


> If I had to choose one American tennis player who I thought might have a chance against Andy, it would be probably be Serena. But having them play is a pretty silly idea. For what? If it's for some charity, why can't Serena open up her checkbook and write a check to that charity, she makes $10 million a year in endorsements.
> If they were going to do it as a fun thing, it would be more entertaining is she played Pete Sampras or John McEnroe or Jimmy Conners.


Of course we've been through this before,I didn't find it particularly edifying.


----------



## moody

Vaneyes said:


> For the whippersnappers, there is BOS precedent.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)


Sorry,I skipped over your post.


----------



## moody

Taggart said:


> The mother was English, hence he could play for England the father was Polish \ Ukrainian. I think the only race in Canada (or Australia) is the one to get out of the place!


I imagine you may be in trouble now,I suppose it must be a bit like the myriad Scots who got out of that beleaguered place.


----------



## Kieran

Pyotr said:


> If I had to choose one American tennis player who I thought might have a chance against Andy, it would be probably be Serena. But having them play is a pretty silly idea. For what? If it's for some charity, why can't Serena open up her checkbook and write a check to that charity, she makes $10 million a year in endorsements.
> If they were going to do it as a fun thing, it would be more entertaining is she played Pete Sampras or John McEnroe or Jimmy Conners.


Serena wouldn't win a game against Murray, or Sampras, but yeah, against Mac or Borg, it might be entertaining, but even then she'd have to have concessions given her, like that she can hit into the alleys...


----------



## Skilmarilion

moody said:


> Now what has he done to upset you ?Mo Farah's father was born in England and although Mo was born in Somalia he was here from the age of eight.
> Kevin Pietersen's mother is English,he moved here because of his disagreement re: the racial quota in South Africa.
> My wife was Welsh so I suppose my children could appear for Wales,England,Ireland Canada,and Germany.
> My opinion of multiculturalism would probably get me banned.
> But you sound as if these people mentioned bear some sort of guilt.


Not at all. I think it's a wonderful thing that such athletes _decide_ to represent England/UK, that they are made to feel that they truly belong to this national indentity. Pietersen could easily have played for South Africa. Farah could have represented Somalia ...

The compelling counter situation is that of Maria Sharapova, Michelle Larcher de Brito, etc., who moved to the USA at around the same age as Robson moved to the UK, grew up playing tennis there and yet _choose_ to represent Russia and Portugal.


----------



## moody

Skilmarilion said:


> Not at all. I think it's a wonderful thing that such athletes _decide_ to represent England/UK, that they are made to feel that they truly belong to this national indentity. Pietersen could easily have played for South Africa. Farah could have represented Somalia ...
> 
> The compelling counter situation is that of Maria Sharapova, Michelle Larcher de Brito, etc., who moved to the USA at around the same age as Robson moved to the UK, grew up playing tennis there and yet _choose_ to represent Russia and Portugal.


I'm beginning to wonder if it's me--the two ladies have no way of playing for the USA unless they actually change their nationality,do you see that or not ?


----------



## Skilmarilion

Right. So they have decided against US citizenship. Considering they've lived there for so many years, it's a simple step that they've been unwilling to take and instead fly the flag of the country of their birth. 

Anyway, Robson just pulled off a quality comeback! And she'll play a lower ranked player in the 4th ...


----------



## Ingélou

What a struggle, though. I was ready to 'stick a fork in her' in the second set! Phew, I need to lie down now...


----------



## Kieran

Robson did well there, didn't she? Other girl was well in control.

Watching Tomic and Gasquet now. I have a little sympathy with Tomic over his daddy-ban. Surely there had to be some sort of tribunal before they ban him? It seems they just read about it in the paper and said, "yup..."


----------



## Taggart

Skilmarilion said:


> Anyway, Robson just pulled off a quality comeback! And she'll play a lower ranked player in the 4th ...


Hmm. Erakovic is ranked 71 to Robson's 38 and look what happened there. Laura made a fine match against the number 10 seed Maria Kirilenko so maybe she needs higher ranking opposition to bring out the best in her.


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> What a struggle, though. I was ready to 'stick a fork in her' in the second set! Phew, I need to lie down now...


I have suffered through English women players since Christine Truman and thought ,watching Ms.Robson, here we go again.
So switched off and retreated, imagine my chagrin when I saw the eventual result !!!
Nevertheless ,she is too heavy and must work on her rather cumbersome movement.


----------



## Taggart

moody said:


> I have suffered through English women players since Christine Truman and thought ,watching Ms.Robson, here we go again.
> So switched off and retreated, imagine my chagrin when I saw the eventual result !!!
> Nevertheless ,she is too heavy and must work on her rather cumbersome movement.


Hmm. Not the nicest thing to say! she was a little static in the early stages but did warm up later. She won (and *that's *the main thing)!


----------



## moody

Taggart said:


> Hmm. Not the nicest thing to say! she was a little static in the early stages but did warm up later. She won (and *that's *the main thing)!


Only in one way,because she now has to continue and what does being nice have to do with it?
I'm right or wrong, niceness doesn't come into it.and I'm not saying it to her but to this thread. A bit less niceness and we would have more champions I think !! The girl's hefty !!


----------



## Ingélou

I thought you meant 'heavy' in the sense of could run faster and more lightly; there, I agree - but not that she's 'hefty'. I do think she needs to have more get-up-and-go. She has a good streak of stubbornness but could be more proactive & competitive. Good luck to her, anyway.


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> I thought you meant 'heavy' in the sense of could run faster and more lightly; there, I agree - but not that she's 'hefty'. I do think she needs to have more get-up-and-go. She has a good streak of stubbornness but could be more proactive & competitive. Good luck to her, anyway.


Well her legs are reminiscent of a grand piano, a stone off and she will wait and see.


----------



## Kieran

Anybody else think del Potro is sliding nicely through the draw, and he's feeding off the confidence he gained from last years Olympics?

A dark horse, maybe? I'm beginning to think he'll be tough for Novak if they meet in the semis...


----------



## Air

Beetween Haas, Berdych, Del Potro, and Ferrer, Nole* will have to face some pretty decent competition before he can make it to the Finals. Del Potro has pulled off the upset in the past so it's definitely not beyond him.

*Edit: If he played like he did today, I don't know if anyone can beat him. 2 UFE's on grass is incredible.


----------



## Ingélou

Original post (restored): Just back from Scottish dancing. At the interval we talked about tennis & I tried out moody's opinion, that Laura Robson was 'hefty'. There was a howl of outrage from everyone at the table.  A posse will be heading moody's way shortly...


Edit: Tennis is taking over a bit at the minute. Watching the harrowing Laura non-hefty Robson match used up my violin practice time...
I hope in a way that she doesn't get through the next match to face Serena!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Just back from Scottish dancing. At the interval we talked about tennis and I tried moody's opinion on them, that Laura Robson was 'hefty'. There was a howl of outrage from everyone at the table.  A posse will be heading moody's way shortly...


Why ask them,surely you can see for yourself.
But,take courage,when Martina first came into the limelight she was big and look how she ended shape wise.


----------



## Ingélou

Darn - didn't change my original post fast enough. Moody was lurking!

Look, stop analysing women players' shapes. Just watch their game...


----------



## Vaneyes

Ingenue said:


> Darn - didn't change my original post fast enough. Moody was lurking!
> 
> Look, stop analysing women players' shapes. Just watch their game...


Excepting *The Beast *of course. *TB* beat up a 42 year-old today.


----------



## Vaneyes

Ingenue said:


> Original post (restored): Just back from Scottish dancing. At the interval we talked about tennis & I tried out moody's opinion, that Laura Robson was 'hefty'. There was a *howl of outrage *from everyone at the table.  A *posse* will be heading moody's way shortly....


Surely, moody's* Iron Dome Air and Ground Defence System *will prevail.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Go atomic Tomic


----------



## Pyotr

Ingenue said:


> :
> 
> Look, stop analysing women players' shapes. Just watch their game...


I agree.(although my wife did mention that she thought that her tennis skirt didn't flatter her). But that was an amazing comeback, after looking so bad for the first set and a half.


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Darn - didn't change my original post fast enough. Moody was lurking!
> 
> Look, stop analysing women players' shapes. Just watch their game...


My comments were on what might affect her game,it was you in denial of what is there before your very eyes to verify who caused it to drag on. Was the lumbering almost immobile Christine Truman before your time--probably I would guess.
But as I've already tried to say she will be a different shape for sure soon and incidentally I will most certainly make any comment that I wish. You put this thread up but don't actually own it my dear.
Are you not going to defend the Beast while you're at it ?


----------



## Ingélou

I do remember Christine Truman - just. In our house she wasn't seen as 'lumbering', however.

Of course I don't 'own the thread'. You have a right to say whatever you like, and you do, just as I have a right to take you up on it.

Nobody I have spoken to thinks that Laura Robson is 'hefty', and telling young girls that they should lose weight when they are perfectly okay and healthy has done a lot of damage in our society.

But Vaneyes, Vaneyes - I couldn't get to sleep last night for chortling. :lol: Fabulous!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> I do remember Christine Truman - just. In our house she wasn't seen as 'lumbering', however.
> 
> Of course I don't 'own the thread'. You have a right to say whatever you like, and you do, just as I have a right to take you up on it.
> 
> Nobody I have spoken to thinks that Laura Robson is 'hefty', and telling young girls that they should lose weight when they are perfectly okay and healthy has done a lot of damage in our society.
> 
> But Vaneyes, Vaneyes - I couldn't get to sleep last night for chortling. :lol: Fabulous!


Well I certainly hope that Ms.Robson does not get upset at what I said!
As for Christine Truman--I am coming to the conclusion that we see things through different eyes,
but of course you are a northerner and they tend to be lumpier so I suppose the norm up there is different.
Also I note that you were defending the Beast in your post 20.
Enough of this ,you can just hope that Laura wins ---which she won't !


----------



## Ingélou

moody said:


> Well I certainly hope that Ms.Robson does not get upset at what I said!
> As for Christine Truman--I am coming to the conclusion that we see things through different eyes,
> but of course you are a northerner and they tend to be lumpier ...


The word is 'feistier'. Just watch it, southerner!


----------



## Pyotr

*The Walkover*

I heard this term mentioned quite a few times this past week because of all of the injuries. When a player wins because the other player couldn't play because of an injury, or for any other reason, that's known as a walkover. From Wiki: "A walkover is the awarding of a victory to a contestant because there are no other contestants, or because the other contestants have been disqualified or have forfeited (the winner has merely to "walk over" the finishing line)....... The word originates from horse-racing in the United Kingdom, where an entrant in a one-horse race run under Jockey Club rules has at least to "walk over" the course before being awarded victory.

As wiki mention, it originated from horse racing. One of the most amusing youtubes I have ever seen was Spectacular Bid's win in the 1980 Woodward Stakes, the last walkover in this country in a stakes race. Notice how the announcers are commenting on the horses run. Hilarious!


----------



## Ingélou

So Laura is out -  - but no surprise after a lack-lustre game. Still, she is spared Serena. (Good luck to Kala Kanepi!)


----------



## moody

Our hefty heroine bites the dust and she was lack-lustre and hesitant--pitiful.
But at least the Beast is going back to its lair.


----------



## Taggart

moody said:


> Our hefty heroine bites the dust and she was lack-lustre and hesitant--pitiful.
> But at least the Beast is going back to its lair.


No way to talk about Serena - she did win a set!

Robson did not too bad either.


----------



## moody

Taggart said:


> No way to talk about Serena - she did win a set!
> 
> Robson did not too bad either.


Well I agree with your wife and she must learn to go for it and fight ,I should think she will---I hope !!!


----------



## Vaneyes

Shocker, The Beast going down. I was sucker-punched by that. 

But, I'm not skipping a beat...*Li Na*.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Brava, Sabine - she's deadly on grass.

With no Serena or Maria I may be able to actually watch the women's final this year!


----------



## moody

Apart from the Beast match it's been sooo boring !


----------



## Ingélou

Muzza through - typically British wobble in the middle, though!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Muzza through - typically British wobble in the middle, though!


Scottish wobble unless he wins the title.


----------



## Air

moody said:


> Apart from the Beast match it's been sooo boring !


Li vs Radwanska will be a good one.


----------



## neoshredder

Murrovic still on course.


----------



## Air

I like Tomic's game. At only 20 years of age, he may be a future star.


----------



## Ukko

Does the women's side now consist only of slender blondes? Is there a way to tell them apart, except for the noises they make?


----------



## Taggart

Hilltroll72 said:


> Does the women's side now consist only of slender blondes? Is there a way to tell them apart, except for the noises they make?


Na.. there's Li for a start!


----------



## Ingélou

It isn't just the women. Murray's opponent did his share of grunting, I noticed ... glad he's out!


----------



## Skilmarilion

My man Berdych got through a tricky one today. I think his huge serve and thumping groundstrokes are just made for grass. 

I hope he takes Novak out on Wednesday like he did 3 years ago!


----------



## Skilmarilion

Btw, it's incredible how the draw's opened up for Murray. Verdasco next, and then potentially Kubot/Janowicz? Amazing. He'll have to earn it though.

Also, apparently Laura threw a bit of a hissy fit in her post-match presser. These young'uns ... so naive!


----------



## neoshredder

Great to see Lisicki beat Serena.


----------



## neoshredder

Skilmarilion said:


> My man Berdych got through a tricky one today. I think his huge serve and thumping groundstrokes are just made for grass.
> 
> I hope he takes Novak out on Wednesday like he did 3 years ago!


Not happening this time. Djokovic is in the best form of his life. Peaking at the right time.


----------



## Taggart

neoshredder said:


> Not happening this time. Djokovic is in the best form of his life. Peaking at the right time.


That means the only way is .... down!


----------



## Kieran

It's a day off at Wimbledon today...


----------



## Pyotr

Off day? No, I enjoy watching the ladies, although I wish Anna Kourniikova was playing. 

Just woke up and watching the Stevens-Bartoli match. Enjoying the silence when the points are played. Ok, who are the remaining grunters left in the draw?


----------



## Pyotr

Ouch. Rain delay. Stevens looks a little sluggish and is making too many unforced errors. She seems to wait until the third set to start playing. 

I am sick of all this rain we've been having in my area. It has rained every day for the last three weeks. Had to cancel my last two golf outings and my last three tennis matches.


----------



## Kieran

Yeah, the rain is irritating, but Wimbledon has done well so far. However, I dislike play under the roof. Last year's final (men) was a travesty, imho. It started outdoors and favoured Federer once the roof came out. The conditions are utterly different and they may as well have been playing on glass, not grass. 

Radwanska did well to get the win there. I kept thinking Li Na would turn it completely around...


----------



## Air

Brava, Aga! Her style of play deserves to be rewarded more these days.

Kvitova is hard to watch at times. She's way better than Flipkens, but she looks so nervous. It's either a winner or an unforced error. In order to beat a player like Aga (who is the model of poise), she'll need to compose herself.


----------



## Vaneyes

Li Na gets waxed...I haven't a clue...no luck with the ladies...it's a free-for-all.

Go rain! Go *Lisicki*!


----------



## moody

Vaneyes said:


> Li Na gets waxed...I haven't a clue...no luck with the ladies...it's a free-for-all.
> 
> Go rain! Go *Lisicki*!


I thought Li Na played very badly in the third, apparently no thought and no plan---I had hoped for better.


----------



## Air

Flipkens was the model of poise today. Congrats. Kvitova was an absolute headcase out there with her 50 (I wasn't counting, but 50 seems about right) unforced errors. I'm still waiting for her to get it together up there (mentally).

That said, everything Kirsten does, Aga does better. Lisicki or Radwanska win the tournament - and I'll be pleased. Women's tennis is kind of blah right now. Tomorrow should be more exciting.


----------



## Vaneyes

moody said:


> I thought Li Na played very badly in the third, apparently no thought and no plan---I had hoped for better.


Not challenging a line call in the first set was a crucial error. Thereafter, she looked frazzled (we've seen it before), though still in the match. Physical game's good. Head game is somewhere else.

Onward we go. Tea anyone?

View attachment 20590


----------



## Kieran

Berdych really annoyed me today, choking away the tiebreak and then a double break in the second. Big tough guy, eh?

Del Potro played excellently considering his knee. I wonder will he wake up tomorrow and it's gotten worse? He had a nasty fall early on today...


----------



## Kieran

Murray's all over the shop out there. Has he underestimated Verdasco? Boris Becker is right - Andy is too passive...


----------



## Vaneyes

Shocker in the making.

View attachment 20591


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> Shocker in the making.
> 
> View attachment 20591


yeah, he's feeling the heat...


----------



## ProudSquire

Not looking too good for Andy : :


----------



## Air

I have faith.

He will win.

You will see.


----------



## Kieran

Air said:


> I have faith.
> 
> He will win.
> 
> You will see.


I think he might, too, but hasn't Verdasco settled well at the start of the fourth?


----------



## elgar's ghost

Wasn't this tournament actually called 'Ye Wimbledon' the last time a British guy won the singles final? :lol:


----------



## Vaneyes

Tennis hair greats--*Pancho Gonzales*, *Fernando Verdasco*.

View attachment 20594
View attachment 20595


----------



## Vaneyes

Any doubt?


----------



## Air

Vaneyes said:


> Any doubt?


Five posts down. 

Never doubt the heart of a champion.


----------



## neoshredder

Murrovic still on. Though that was a shaky performance. I guess getting used to a lefty played a big part in it. Murray will have to return better against Janowicz.


----------



## moody

Vaneyes said:


> Tennis hair greats--*Pancho Gonzales*, *Fernando Verdasco*.
> 
> View attachment 20594
> View attachment 20595


Oh no, Gonzales was the greatest ever ask any of the most famous players,there is no comparison.


----------



## moody

moody said:


> Oh no, Gonzales was the greatest ever ask any of the most famous players,there is no comparison.


B----r you were talking about hair ? Wrong glasses !


----------



## moody

Why do British players like to make us suffer so much--talk about tears caused by music !!


----------



## Crudblud

neoshredder said:


> Murrovic still on. Though that was a shaky performance. I guess getting used to a lefty played a big part in it. Murray will have to return better against Janowicz.


I'm no tennis expert, don't watch much either, but it seemed to me that Murray kept his energy in reserve while Verdasco kind of wore himself out after a couple of sets with his frenetic playing style. A patient and well considered strategy by Murray that won in the end.


----------



## neoshredder

Crudblud said:


> I'm no tennis expert, don't watch much either, but it seemed to me that Murray kept his energy in reserve while Verdasco kind of wore himself out after a couple of sets with his frenetic playing style. A patient and well considered strategy by Murray that won in the end.


Verdasco is a very fit player. So I don't blame him for thinking he could go all out early in the match and find a way to win. I know he has a more powerful racquet now. But Murray is probably the most fit player in tennis right now. He got it done. We'll see how he recovers against a powerful Janowicz.


----------



## Kieran

Crudblud said:


> I'm no tennis expert, don't watch much either, but it seemed to me that Murray kept his energy in reserve while Verdasco kind of wore himself out after a couple of sets with his frenetic playing style. A patient and well considered strategy by Murray that won in the end.


This is how Murray looks. He's kind of downbeat all the time. His great weakness as a younger man was a lack of initiative in going for the throat. So we'd watch him make the latter rounds of slams and he'd want to rally - when Nadal would slam away winners and take the prize. It takes more than patience to win at this level. I was amazed at how many times Murray hit neutral, non-controlling shots just to keep the rally going. Often, he had chances to seize the nettle and he balked. This is old Murray! he had kind of expunged this under Lendl last year, but I fear he's reverted. He looked timid against a knackered Federer in Oz, he faded against Djoker in the final there, too.

It's good enough against most guys, but not at the very highest level. This is why I say there isn't a Big 4 in tennis: there's a Big 3+1. Murray is still a way off the other three, imho...


----------



## neoshredder

Kieran said:


> This is how Murray looks. He's kind of downbeat all the time. His great weakness as a younger man was a lack of initiative in going for the throat. So we'd watch him make the latter rounds of slams and he'd want to rally - when Nadal would slam away winners and take the prize. It takes more than patience to win at this level. I was amazed at how many times Murray hit neutral, non-controlling shots just to keep the rally going. Often, he had chances to seize the nettle and he balked. This is old Murray! he had kind of expunged this under Lendl last year, but I fear he's reverted. He looked timid against a knackered Federer in Oz, he faded against Djoker in the final there, too.
> 
> It's good enough against most guys, but not at the very highest level. This is why I say there isn't a Big 4 in tennis: there's a Big 3+1. Murray is still a way off the other three, imho...


If you take away clay, Federer and Nadal have dropped off big time on the other surfaces. Their return of serves have really dropped. It's really a big 1 now on surfaces off of clay. Djokovic being that 1.


----------



## Kieran

neoshredder said:


> If you take away clay, Federer and Nadal have dropped off big time on the other surfaces. Their return of serves have really dropped. It's really a big 1 now on surfaces off of clay. Djokovic being that 1.


If Nadal can stay fit on hard courts, I think we may see a Big 2. But yes, tennis is moving back to the early days of Federer, when Roger was winning slams against _Um _and _Uh_. Looking for the next great player is proving a difficult proposition. I like Jerzy, but I don't think he has the mind to be consistent...


----------



## Art Rock

It was an amazing comeback, but Murray's indecisive play is what gave him problems in the first place. If the QF's are the shape of things to come, Djokovic will destroy Murray in the final (3-0 with multiple breaks each set).


----------



## Skilmarilion

I felt for Verdasco in the end. He's such a talented player who's really drifted into the wilderness the past 2-3 years, and somehow he's regained his confidence these couple of weeks and played beautifully. It would have been a defining moment in his career. 

Sometimes I find it really difficult to get behind Murray. His play for much of today was completely uninspired, verging on utterly boring. For all the talent he has I think it's a shame he doesn't play more attacking tennis. He's essentially always been a grinder, just waiting for his opponent to take the risks in the rally and make a mistake.

He needs to step up his game enormously and play with far more purpose if he wants to win this thing.


----------



## Air

I think people get behind Murray because of his resilience and his hype as an "English" player. Personally, I don't really enjoy his style of play, yet I am able to sympathize greatly with his attitude - which I often like to describe as the "heart of a champion". You have to admit that the fight he has shown throughout his career is pretty remarkable.

If you look at his results in the past few years, you would see that he always makes it deep into the tournament but rarely wins it all. With his style of play, that's usually the case.

One of my least favorite players in the Tour is David Ferrer, who is basically a poor man's Murray. That, and he doesn't have the story and hype that makes a Murray run (especially in Wimbledon) exciting. Basically, he will never win a major unless all the top players are eliminated, which would be pretty sad.


----------



## moody

Air said:


> I think people get behind Murray because of his resilience and his hype as an "English" player. Personally, I don't really enjoy his style of play, yet I am able to sympathize greatly with his attitude - which I often like to describe as the "heart of a champion". You have to admit that the fight he has shown throughout his career is pretty remarkable.
> 
> If you look at his results in the past few years, you would see that he always makes it deep into the tournament but rarely wins it all. With his style of play, that's usually the case.
> 
> One of my least favorite players in the Tour is David Ferrer, who is basically a poor man's Murray. That, and he doesn't have the story and hype that makes a Murray run (especially in Wimbledon) exciting. Basically, he will never win a major unless all the top players are eliminated, which would be pretty sad.


Watch it,you'll be in deep trouble because he is a Scot ---you knew that now didn't you !


----------



## moody

Art Rock said:


> It was an amazing comeback, but Murray's indecisive play is what gave him problems in the first place. If the QF's are the shape of things to come, Djokovic will destroy Murray in the final (3-0 with multiple breaks each set).


I don't think so.


----------



## Air

moody said:


> Watch it,you'll be in deep trouble because he is a Scot ---you knew that now didn't you !


Hence the quotes.

Do you think England really cares though? They haven't had a good tennis player for ages, so they treat him like he's one of their own.

I'm not English or Scottish though so I don't really know how it works over there.


----------



## Kieran

Air said:


> Hence the quotes.
> 
> Do you think England really cares though? They haven't had a good tennis player for ages, so they treat him like he's one of their own.


They had Tim Henman! Guy was fourth best in the world at one stage...


----------



## Air

Kieran said:


> They had Tim Henman! Guy was fourth best in the world at one stage...


You're only a hero once you win. Before that, you're just another hope.


----------



## Kieran

Air said:


> You're only a hero once you win. Before that, you're just another hope.


I think if I ever become 4th best in the world at something I'd consider that more winning than losing, I _hope_...


----------



## Vaneyes

I don't know anything about Verdasco's career, but it was plain to see he nor Murray lacked any fitness at the end of an always gruelling five-set slugfest. Can you even get to a fifth set without being fit? 

Also, there was little difference that I could see in mental toughness. The bounce-back factor was evident for both, and often impressive.

The winning edge for Murray (apart from a makeover, and strategic work with Coach Lendl) was the home crowd. You can never underestimate the screaming buddy.

A big part of Jerk to Joker's success has been creating goodwill, thus screaming buddies. The respect is there now from most, if not unconditional love.

War at Wimby coming up.


----------



## moody

Kieran said:


> This is how Murray looks. He's kind of downbeat all the time. His great weakness as a younger man was a lack of initiative in going for the throat. So we'd watch him make the latter rounds of slams and he'd want to rally - when Nadal would slam away winners and take the prize. It takes more than patience to win at this level. I was amazed at how many times Murray hit neutral, non-controlling shots just to keep the rally going. Often, he had chances to seize the nettle and he balked. This is old Murray! he had kind of expunged this under Lendl last year, but I fear he's reverted. He looked timid against a knackered Federer in Oz, he faded against Djoker in the final there, too.
> 
> It's good enough against most guys, but not at the very highest level. This is why I say there isn't a Big 4 in tennis: there's a Big 3+1. Murray is still a way off the other three, imho...


You seem to misunderstand Murray completely,he is a counterpuncher and does what you describe to that end.
May I remind you that he is the world no.2 which means that the only player superior to him is Djokothing


----------



## moody

Air said:


> Hence the quotes.
> 
> Do you think England really cares though? They haven't had a good tennis player for ages, so they treat him like he's one of their own.
> 
> I'm not English or Scottish though so I don't really know how it works over there.


Yes,we'll take him when he wins,but the Scots are fiercely nationalistic about these things.
So is Murray.


----------



## Blue Hour

moody said:


> Yes,we'll take him when he wins,but the Scots are fiercely nationalistic about these things.
> So is Murray.


I was born in Scotland and I'm not nationalistic in anyway, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. :tiphat:


----------



## moody

Surreal said:


> I was born in Scotland and I'm not nationalistic in anyway, you can't tar everyone with the same brush. :tiphat:


Why aren't you,it would seem natural. May I remind you that there is an independence vote coming up and the Scots are famous for nationalism---especially those living in England of course.


----------



## Kieran

moody said:


> You seem to misunderstand Murray completely,he is a counterpuncher and does what you describe to that end.
> May I remind you that he is the world no.2 which means that the only player superior to him is Djokothing


No, Murray isn't a counterpuncher, he weaves a rally web and waits for the opponent to slip up. He's very reticent when it comes to turning defence into attack and he has many opportunities to take control of the point but he maintains a status quo position in the rally. I wish he was a counterpuncher because this would mean that at some stage he'd strike a lethal blow, but _passive_ is a word that isn't wasted on Andy...


----------



## Blue Hour

moody said:


> Why aren't you,it would seem natural. May I remind you that there is an independence vote coming up and the Scots are famous for nationalism---especially those living in England of course.


Of course? The BBC conducted a poll last month which had 60% or just above of SNP voters not in favor of independence. If that's true of SNP voters then I would think those Scottish folk living in England and Wales would be more likely to vote to remain within the UK. A possible reason why you are denied a vote if you are not living in Scotland.

The polls also show and have done for as long as I can remember those in favor of independence to be in the minority. It will likely come down to voter turn out and who can be bothered to vote.

As for me I cannot vote as I've lived outside Scotland for the past 8 years. I do however find it convenient to have British citizenship and have a townhouse in London and would very much like to stay within the UK. If Scotland did decide to vote for independence then I'd consider taking English citizenship if I ever wanted to live in the UK again.

I don't know why I am not nationalistic I find the whole concept of nationalism at best pitiful and at worst dangerous.


----------



## Kieran

Well, surely you can be a nationalistic Scot and want to remain in the UK, too?


----------



## Blue Hour

Kieran said:


> Well, surely you can be a nationalistic Scot and want to remain in the UK, too?


True I didn't mean to imply otherwise.


----------



## moody

Kieran said:


> No, Murray isn't a counterpuncher, he weaves a rally web and waits for the opponent to slip up. He's very reticent when it comes to turning defence into attack and he has many opportunities to take control of the point but he maintains a status quo position in the rally. I wish he was a counterpuncher because this would mean that at some stage he'd strike a lethal blow, but _passive_ is a word that isn't wasted on Andy...


I wonder if you know the game,when he's woven his web he normally finishes it off with a devastating drive. He's also known as one of the best returners of service in the sport--that's counterpunching for a start.
I note you've come up with no explanation as to why this limp and passive creature is world number two !


----------



## moody

Surreal said:


> Of course? The BBC conducted a poll last month which had 60% or just above of SNP voters not in favor of independence. If that's true of SNP voters then I would think those Scottish folk living in England and Wales would be more likely to vote to remain within the UK. A possible reason why you are denied a vote if you are not living in Scotland.
> 
> The polls also show and have done for as long as I can remember those in favor of independence to be in the minority. It will likely come down to voter turn out and who can be bothered to vote.
> 
> As for me I cannot vote as I've lived outside Scotland for the past 8 years. I do however find it convenient to have British citizenship and have a townhouse in London and would very much like to stay within the UK. If Scotland did decide to vote for independence then I'd consider taking English citizenship if I ever wanted to live in the UK again.
> 
> I don't know why I am not nationalistic I find the whole concept of nationalism at best pitiful and at worst dangerous.


There is a very large group who are in favour of Scottish independence--they are know as the English!


----------



## Kieran

moody said:


> I wonder if you know the game,when he's woven his web he normally finishes it off with a devastating drive. He's also known as one of the best returners of service in the sport--that's counterpunching for a start.
> I note you've come up with no explanation as to why this limp and passive creature is world number two !


He's number two because he's the best of the rest. David Ferrer is going to be number 3 after Wimbledon and his biggest weapon is his heart. Murray is a good returner but to say he's a great counterpuncher implies he reacts to aggression with some definitive aggression of his own. He doesn't. He sits back and waits, lets the opponent dictate. He's not a pushover but really, the great counterpunchers are Nadal and Djokovic, who turn defence into attack with one killer sucker punch...


----------



## elgar's ghost

English tennis fans, like those in golf, don't tend to discern where in the UK a decent player comes from - when Henman did well for a while the fans still mainly brandished Union flags rather than St. George's ones. Whatever Murray's own views on Scottish matters the vast majority of people in England would still want him to win. England has often been viewed as synonymous with the UK because it forms the largest part of the country and this has over the years irked the Welsh/Scottish and slightly confused foreigners in equal measure.


----------



## Guest

I'm officially gonna cheer for Jerzy Janowicz, despite his long odds.

By the way, Jerzy is pronounced YE-zhi - almost rhyming with "messy" but with the zh sound as in the middle of "pleasure" instead of the "s" sound. No "r" sound at all in Jerzy.

And Janowicz is yaNOveech.

I wince a bit at how its typically pronounced by broadcasters. Of course Lech Walesa's name has been mutilated for decades.


----------



## elgar's ghost

BPS said:


> Of course Lech Walesa's name has been mutilated for decades.


True enough - I was put right on this matter c. 1981 by a next door neighbour who had the foresight to escape (after certain guerilla activities) before the Soviets took over the half where he was from over 40 years before. His words - 'remember his name - in English it's pronounced Lekh Vowensa'. It was only after he died that I discovered that he took part in further combat in Italy and Germany and was medalled up both by the US and UK. My neighbour was such a quiet man, but the possibility that a totally free Poland that he was dreaming of only really happened once he died.


----------



## Ingélou

Right, here we go today, men's semis. I don't know if I can bear to watch Murray's match. Fingers & toes crossed, though!


----------



## Kieran

This one's a bear fight, isn't it? Del Potro getting back in it has made it very interesting. If the crowd get behind him on Murray's behalf, Nole may renege...


----------



## Taggart

Then again, the last time they met here (olympics) Nole went out. Interesting to see who has the B E L I E F as the commentators keep saying.


----------



## Air

Djokovic vs Del Potro was a thing of beauty.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Janowicz will be ranked in the top 5 within a year.


----------



## Vaneyes

No doubt. 

View attachment 20714


----------



## Vaneyes

"Not another five-setter!"


----------



## Vaneyes

"Enough of this heart-to-heart talk. Professional tennis is a cold and calculative business."


----------



## Ingélou

Aha! Murray versus Janowicz, 3-1 in Murray's favour, and now - *the Great Roof Controversy*.

Hope it doesn't scupper his chances. Janowicz is a yeller & growler, isn't he? Reminds me of the large reptilian *Gorns* in the original Star Trek. 
And you lot keep complaining about women making a noise! 


(PS Murray did show a bit more initiative & aggression this time,TTL!)


----------



## deggial

^ people just expect the ladies to be... ladylike


----------



## Crudblud

Ingenue said:


> Aha! Murray versus Janowicz, 3-1 in Murray's favour, and now - *the Great Roof Controversy*.
> 
> Hope it doesn't scupper his chances. Janowicz is a yeller & growler, isn't he? Reminds me of the large reptilian *Gorns* in the original Star Trek.
> And you lot keep complaining about women making a noise!


Men making _tennis yelps_ are not off the hook either! I'd prefer it if the incessant warblers in the commentary box put a sock in it too. And stop interviewing the players after the match, asking them how/why they won, if you can't see that the winner won because he scored more points than the loser you shouldn't be employed to cover tennis matches because you obviously have no idea how the game works.

I apologise, it's just that every time I see sports on TV the manner in which the coverage is delivered makes me want to punch someone in the face. I only watch a little bit every now and then and I'm still sick of it!


----------



## Vaneyes

4 sets with a little whinging, from you-know-who. No matter, *War at Wimby* is almost upon us.

Pee-Ess, what's all that England sunshine about?


----------



## Taggart

Vaneyes said:


> 4 sets with a little whinging, from you-know-who. No matter, *War at Wimby* is almost upon us.
> 
> Pee-Ess, what's all that England sunshine about?


It's a mistake! Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible - snow is forecast for Sunday


----------



## Skilmarilion

Air said:


> Djokovic vs Del Potro was a thing of beauty.
> 
> I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Janowicz will be ranked in the top 5 within a year.


Goodness me, Del Potro was absolutely stunning. After a few of his shots today I seriously don't think I've seen a tennis ball come off somebody's racket at that speed. He was ailing a little physically towards the end, which was a shame. He deserved to win. I'm hoping this is the match that signals him being truly back.

I'm hoping Murray can do this, but Djoker is money right now.

Also, John McEnroe should never, ever be allowed to pronounce Janowicz's name again!


----------



## aleazk

Crudblud said:


> Men making _tennis yelps_ are not off the hook either! I'd prefer it if the incessant warblers in the commentary box put a sock in it too. And stop interviewing the players after the match, asking them how/why they won, if you can't see that the winner won because he scored more points than the loser you shouldn't be employed to cover tennis matches because you obviously have no idea how the game works.
> 
> I apologise, it's just that every time I see sports on TV the manner in which the coverage is delivered makes me want to punch someone in the face. I only watch a little bit every now and then and I'm still sick of it!












That little button has done wonders for me. :tiphat:


----------



## aleazk

Skilmarilion said:


> Goodness me, Del Potro was absolutely stunning. After a few of his shots today I seriously don't think I've seen a tennis ball come off somebody's racket at that speed. He was ailing a little physically towards the end, which was a shame. He deserved to win. I'm hoping this is the match that signals him being truly back.


Indeed!. I used to watch tennis, but I can't stand the feeling of injustice sometimes!.


----------



## Vaneyes

aleazk said:


> That little button has done wonders for me. :tiphat:


Right, you are. I usually listen to classical music instead of listening to yelps and talking heads stuff, nothing new stuff that's been said for 50 years. :tiphat: back at yuh.


----------



## Guest

Sports fans love singing along to Verdi while watching Wimbledon:


----------



## elgar's ghost

No chance of rain so at least we'll be spared an impromptu singalong with Cliff Richard.....won't we????


----------



## neoshredder

Murrovic final here we come.  And hope Lisicki beats Bartoli.


----------



## neoshredder

Vaneyes said:


> Right, you are. I usually listen to classical music instead of listening to yelps and talking heads stuff, nothing new stuff that's been said for 50 years. :tiphat: back at yuh.


Great combination. Watching tennis while listening to Classical music.


----------



## Vaneyes

neoshredder said:


> Murrovic final here we come.  And hope Lisicki beats Bartoli.


Fastest serve speeds (mph) -

Lisicki (125) Bartoli (108)

Murray (145) Joker (136)

Murray's fastest was clocked six years ago. The others from various sources are more recent, but certainly not very recent. Anyone have this week's speeds? Lisicki's is a particularly huge edge.

Related -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves


----------



## moody

Air said:


> Djokovic vs Del Potro was a thing of beauty.
> 
> I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Janowicz will be ranked in the top 5 within a year.


Maybe,but what a nasty piece of work.

Kieran's quiet ,no comment on the passive Murray who tore the Polish beast up !!


----------



## Kieran

moody said:


> Maybe,but what a nasty piece of work.
> 
> Kieran's quiet ,no comment on the passive Murray who tore the Polish beast up !!


No, he played great, much more aggressive than usual, which he has to be. Was impressed by JJ's attitude but I think he's too erratic and easily distracted. Murray's more experienced and it showed.

Let's see if he plays aggressive tomorrow when he has to. He reverts into his shell sometimes, including last W and January in Oz. Waits for the other guy to miss: it's his default setting - but Lendl's doing well resetting the defaults!


----------



## Taggart

elgars ghost said:


> No chance of rain so at least we'll be spared an impromptu singalong with Cliff Richard.....won't we????


Why do you think they put the roof on?


----------



## Taggart

BPS said:


> Sports fans love singing along to Verdi while watching Wimbledon:


Given the way they hit the balls, the Anvil Chorus would seem appropriate!


----------



## moody

What single-mindedness and dedication by Marion Bartoli and you will note that she's a dumpy girl.
I hope Laura Robson was watching and picked up some inspiration.


----------



## Pyotr

I like that two-handed forehand that Bartoli uses. More players should use it including club hackers. It minimizes tennis elbow when you get older too.


----------



## Kieran

I think Bartoli would irritate me if I was a) a female and b) good enough to play her. All those strange rituals at the back of the court: standing with her back to the court and playing invisible points against nobody. Touching the backstop for good luck. Burning incense candles on the change over. The helicopter serve.

She's a worse distraction that JJ, and he was irritating...


----------



## neoshredder

Heck Bartoli is irritating even watching on the tv. Disappointing final to say the least. Hopefully the mens final is better.


----------



## Rehydration

Bartoli is one of my favorites, but so is Lisicki, so I didn't know who I was rooting for while watching the finals. 
I thought Lisicki was going to put up more of a fight. 
'Twas just nerves, however. You can't blame her for that, what with those huge victories.


----------



## deggial

Kieran said:


> I think Bartoli would irritate me if I was a) a female and b) good enough to play her. All those strange rituals at the back of the court: standing with her back to the court and playing invisible points against nobody. Touching the backstop for good luck. Burning incense candles on the change over. The helicopter serve.


 gotta love a quirky woman!


----------



## Kieran

Okay, so Andy v Novak tomorrow. 3rd slam final out of the previous 4 between them, that's fairly strong. That's actually a "rivalry." Fedal is past-tense now, is it? These two are getting to expect it.

I hope it's a really long match, five sets, huge amounts of chaos and drama, and Andy wins.

Though, listening to Andrew Castle might just turn me into the Djokolite for the afternoon....


----------



## deggial

I hope it's a short one and Andy wins. He needs to stop this five setter thing. I really dislike them as I get all worked up  in fact, I like 5 setters so little, I wish they did away with them.


----------



## Ingélou

The sports writer in our newspaper was quite witty about the effects of Murray's matches on the hapless spectator. 

'You feared that at any moment your internal organs would try to make a break for it by vaulting clean out of your mouth.' 

He says also that Kim Sears, Murray's girlfriend 'managed somehow to look simultaneously tanned and pale' & finishes by suggesting that for the final, the Wimbledon committee have a trench dug round the court, to be filled with smelling salts.


----------



## Taggart

deggial said:


> I hope it's a short one and Andy wins. He needs to stop this five setter thing. I really dislike them as I get all worked up  in fact, I like 5 setters so little, I wish they did away with them.


That wouldn't have done Andy any good against Vedasco! I hope it's a short one too. Either Andy wins and we're all happy, or he goes out quickly and we don't have too much grief. Alternately we have long and enthralling five setter where Djokovic is obviously sturggling to keep up with the genius of Murray.

Drat, I can't find the smiley for a flying pig!


----------



## deggial

Taggart said:


> Either Andy wins and we're all happy, or he goes out quickly and we don't have too much grief.


I'll have that. My point is he'd have adjusted his game against Verdasco if he knew he only had 3 sets. And it's so true about the internal organs... whew! a few years ago I used to be quite a bit of a Petrova fan, as I enjoyed her varied game. But dear god it was always tedious watching her inability to finish a match properly. So basta to that. Gimme a player who knows when to press for closure.


----------



## moody

Kieran said:


> Okay, so Andy v Novak tomorrow. 3rd slam final out of the previous 4 between them, that's fairly strong. That's actually a "rivalry." Fedal is past-tense now, is it? These two are getting to expect it.
> 
> I hope it's a really long match, five sets, huge amounts of chaos and drama, and Andy wins.
> 
> Though, listening to Andrew Castle might just turn me into the Djokolite for the afternoon....


The annoying thing is that the dreadful Castle doesn't work for the BBC except for Wimbledon.


----------



## moody

Rehydration said:


> Bartoli is one of my favorites, but so is Lisicki, so I didn't know who I was rooting for while watching the finals.
> I thought Lisicki was going to put up more of a fight.
> 'Twas just nerves, however. You can't blame her for that, what with those huge victories.


I'm not sure,Bartolli wiped out the girl in the semis completely.


----------



## Vaneyes

Hopefully, Lisicki can build on her Wimby successes. I love that smile.

View attachment 20804


----------



## Vaneyes

Onward to *War at Wimby*.

This?

View attachment 20805


Or this?


----------



## deggial

praise all gods, he's managed to forgo the 5 setter! whew. Now on to normal life.


----------



## Ingélou

Vaneyes said:


> Onward to *War at Wimby*.
> 
> This? Or this?
> 
> Thank goodness - it was *this*. I almost lost my trolley during that match but it was worth it.
> 
> Well done, Andy!  :tiphat:


----------



## Kieran

Absolutely delighted for Andy. Immense effort. Huge. Gigantagious. The man was brilliant and he deserved the win. Ah! I thought he blew it and he didn't. Great! 

And Mitsuko in the Royal Box, representing Wolfie. Class!


----------



## moody

I'm delighted and he certainly deserved the title. All my life I've been waiting for a British winner among the males and at last it happened. Well done young man !!

Andrew Castle was asinine as he always is.


----------



## deggial

^ now you'll have to hang around for the female one!


----------



## Taggart

Don't annoy him. Laura Robson will be around shortly, but he doesn't seem to think much of her.


----------



## deggial

he'll change his tune when she wins


----------



## moody

deggial said:


> ^ now you'll have to hang around for the female one!


We've had a number of female champions,you should know that.


----------



## Kieran

moody said:


> I'm delighted and he certainly deserved the title. All my life I've been waiting for a British winner among the males and at last it happened. Well done young man !!
> 
> Andrew Castle was asinine as he always is.


Spot on, and especially about Andrew Castle. Really irritated me this W. But Murray, he grew! And Grew! And GREW!


----------



## MagneticGhost

Amazing!!  now that Murray is the current holder of 2 Grand Slams and Olympic Gold we'll stop hearing from people saying he's rubbish and nowhere near the level of the big three! Perhaps!


----------



## deggial

moody said:


> We've had a number of female champions,you should know that.


I'm just goading you  in a wacky way, maybe. I'm a bit overexcited...


----------



## moody

deggial said:


> I'm just goading you  in a wacky way, maybe. I'm a bit overexcited...


Well go and have a lie down dear---I don't believe you anyway.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Congratulations to Murray and Great Britain! 77-year drought CRUSHED! I watched the last minutes of the game on TV.


----------



## neoshredder

Murray did it! Vamos.


----------



## Kieran

Now let's hope Rafa stays fit and we'll have a new 1,2,3.

1. Rafa
2. Murray
3. Djokovic...


----------



## elgar's ghost

Well well well - within the last calender year Brits have won the US Open and USPGA golf championships, the Wimbledon and US Open tennis tournaments and the Tour de France - until relatively recently this would have been totally unthinkable. Now if only England's overpaid and perennially underachieving footballers could get THEIR arses in gear and do their country proud for a change...


----------



## TresPicos

Congratulations, Britain! :tiphat:


----------



## Taggart

elgars ghost said:


> Well well well - within the last calender year Brits have won the US Open and USPGA golf championships, the Wimbledon and US Open tennis tournaments and the Tour de France - until relatively recently this would have been totally unthinkable. Now if only England's overpaid and perennially underachieving footballers could get ... in gear and do their country proud for a change...


Trouble is several things - all the things you mention are individual competitions (OK the Tour is worked through teams but an individual gets the credit). Football is a team sport and we don't seem to have the talent in depth with a commitment to the team. The FA doesn't help by scheduling really big matches ahead of England games. Finally, Ipswich haven't developed (yet) managers of the calibre of Alf Ramsey or Bobby Robson who could go on and take England to glory.


----------



## Skilmarilion

That final game is one of the most compelling I've ever seen. Maybe it's crazy to say, but I had the feeling it would be decisive either way - if Novak had broken after Murray had seen championship points go begging, I think it could well have gone the distance. But Andy put together some sublime points to survive the scare and then clinch it in style.

A huge congrats to Andy! He need only look at where he was 12 months ago to realise how far he has come and that he is a true champion. Most of all, he's a great guy with a lot of humility. Well deserved. 

Oh, and ...

http://data.whicdn.com/images/56174499/tumblr_m6yvtwgHTn1ryj9vdo2_r1_500_large.gif

The Djoke's on you!


----------



## Vaneyes

1936 to 2013...how time flies! Congrats, Andy. Magnificent win. Some things are meant to happen.

View attachment 20855


----------



## Vaneyes

Kim Sears and Judy Murray, are they speaking? They sat about as far as they could from each other. After victory, Andy climbs into the stands, kissing and glad-handing everyone including girlfriend Kim Sears. But ignores his mother, until someone reminds him. 

Uchida was there, with sunglasses extraordinaire. Too bad I couldn't find a pic of her wearing the stupid things. Well, I guess she is, if you count on top of her head.

View attachment 20861


Justin Rose, 2013 US Open (golf) champ was there. Actually, right behind Uchida.










Bradley Cooper & Gerard Butler were there, taking selfies. Yes ladies, they're a couple.

View attachment 20862


----------



## Vaneyes

Found a pic of Uchida wearing those things. 

View attachment 20867


----------



## elgar's ghost

Vaneyes said:


> Found a pic of Uchida wearing those things.
> 
> View attachment 20867


Eeww....

As for Cooper and Butler, I've never even heard of them.


----------



## moody

Bradley Cooper is a bum who appeared in some TV shows.


----------



## moody

Bradley Cooper is a bum who appeared in some TV shows.
At least Gerald Butler is Scots,he was Leonidas in "300"--nothing there to boast about.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Now let's hope Rafa stays fit and we'll have a new 1,2,3.
> 
> 1. Rafa
> 2. Murray
> 3. Djokovic...


1. Rafa - Clay, 1. Andy - Grass, 1. Joker - Hardcourt.


----------



## moody

Vaneyes said:


> 1. Rafa - Clay, 1. Andy - Grass, 1. Joker - Hardcourt.


Do remember that Murray is the US Open champ--that's on hard courts my dear sir,is it not?


----------



## neoshredder

moody said:


> Do remember that Murray is the US Open champ--that's on hard courts my dear sir,is it not?


True. Joker prefers slower hardcourts. Like the Aussie Open.


----------



## Vaneyes

moody said:


> Do remember that Murray is the US Open champ--that's on hard courts my dear sir,is it not?


Though Andy's on a wee roll, it may be a wee early for full-fledged suspender-snapping.

Since 2011, Joker holds 4 hard court GS titles, and Andy 1.


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> Though Andy's on a wee roll, it may be a wee early for full-fledged suspender-snapping.
> 
> Since 2011, Joker holds 4 hard court GS titles, and Andy 1.


Since Oz 2012 (when his streak fizzled out) Djoker has 1 GS out of 6.

Murray has 2.

Nadal has 2.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Since Oz 2012 (when his streak fizzled out) Djoker has 1 GS out of 6.
> 
> Murray has 2.
> 
> Nadal has 2.


That's a convenient fizzle.


----------



## Pyotr

This is a huge win for Andy. I never thought he could do it. Oh, I knew he could beat the top three, and he has, but to do it on that stage. If he could learn to use the home crowd for his advantage then, the sky's the limit. The way Jimmy Connors and Pete Sampras use to use the home crowd for their advantage. Some players can't and shrink in front of the spotlight, but this win proves that he's going to be tough to beat anywhere.


----------



## Vaneyes

Andy Murray stumbles over the big q. 8 years?


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> That's a convenient fizzle.


I doubt Novak would agree!


----------



## Taggart

Vaneyes said:


> Andy Murray stumbles over the big q. 8 years?


He's a bloke - he doesn't do commitment. He's a Scot - he doesn't do public emotion. He's a tennis player for goodness sake not some drunk on a reality TV show.


----------



## moody

Taggart said:


> He's a bloke - he doesn't do commitment. He's a Scot - he doesn't do public emotion. He's a tennis player for goodness sake not some drunk on a reality TV show.


I seem to remember him weeping at last year's Wimbledon.


----------



## Vaneyes

Wow, *Andy-can-do-no-wrong* is turbo-charged. Well, that's okay, a bandwagon always has a wee more room.

Before we know it, the US Open will be upon us. I expect *The Fizzler* will try to make amends.

PEE-ESS:

Put a ring on that girl's finger, Andy. Or, do you wish to join the Cooper/Butler bromance?


----------



## elgar's ghost

Dear God...no sooner has AM hoisted the trophy aloft than our illustrious Prime Minister gets in on the act and sounds off about a knighthood! Murray to his credit downplayed it when told but I think Call Me Dave's over-reaction says more about the desperate state of the men's game in this country in the 50-odd years prior to the revival under Henman and Rusedski than it does anything else.


----------



## Kieran

Give him a knighthood! If he gives a huge donation to the government, like he oughta should do. Why should Murray get a knighthood for achievement? No! Fill the coffers and they'll be in touch...


----------



## deggial

Vaneyes said:


> PEE-ESS:
> 
> Put a ring on that girl's finger, Andy. Or, do you wish to join the Cooper/Butler bromance?


I liked his answer to that.


----------



## Air

Something else to be optimistic about after watching Wimbledon... Delpo is back to form. Injuries have hindered him from winning his second grand slam, but it's definitely not over yet... he's still only 24!


----------



## Kieran

Air said:


> Something else to be optimistic about after watching Wimbledon. Delpo is back to form. He's still only 24.


Wouldn't it be great if he stayed fit? Seriously, he's an immense talent and cold as a shark. His performance against Novak was the turn of the show, but also his humour and cool under pressure. Definitely the best of the post-Big 4...


----------



## Vaneyes

And, what does *Andy Entourage* get? Putting up with putting up for alllll those years. Credit to Andy, he did acknowledge their beyond-the-call-of-duty shortly after The Fizzler trouncing.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Wouldn't it be great if he stayed fit? Seriously, he's an immense talent and *cold as a shark*. His performance against Novak was the turn of the show, but also his humour and cool under pressure. Definitely the best of the post-Big 4...


Cold as a shark? That's not *our Andy*. We want more of his honest Big Bubba Watson droplets.


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> Cold as a shark? That's not *our Andy*. We want more of his honest Big Bubba Watson droplets.


Ah no, I was talking about del Potro. Andy is quite passionate but he's got a great temperament too...


----------



## neoshredder

Air said:


> Something else to be optimistic about after watching Wimbledon... Delpo is back to form. Injuries have hindered him from winning his second grand slam, but it's definitely not over yet... he's still only 24!


He's close. But I thought the same after Indian Wells. He just can't get through all the big guns.


----------



## Vaneyes

neoshredder said:


> He's close. But I thought the same after Indian Wells. He just can't get through all the big guns.


Sounds like a bunch.

I'm keeping my eyes on Raonic and Almagro, two smashers, lately trying to balance the big game in earnest. Good luck to them.


----------



## Vaneyes

Andy on holiday, mistaken for a flour factory worker.

View attachment 21314


http://www.express.co.uk/news/showb...she-holidays-with-Wimbledon-champ-Andy-Murray


----------



## Ingélou

Ah, the tennis season approacheth... I can't wait.

Does anyone have any favourites for Wimbledon champion this year? Can Andy do it again?


----------



## Matsps

Ingélou said:


> Ah, the tennis season approacheth... I can't wait.
> 
> Does anyone have any favourites for Wimbledon champion this year? Can Andy do it again?


Nadal and Djokavich* are so far ahead in rankings (at 1 & 2 respectively) that I'm sure one of them will win it. They may even meet in the final, which would be absolutely great. For Federer fans (like myself) - Even though Federer has the best Wimbledon record of any current player (any player ever maybe?), I think he has had his last win there already. To be honest, I'm quite amazed his world ranking is still so high (4th)! He looked ready to retire a couple years ago when he was slipping out of the top ten.

As for Murray, he's way off the pace. I think he will lose to someone like Warinka or Del-Potro, probably in the 1/4 finals.

*Apologies for any names spelt incorrectly, but I don't feel like Googling all of them.


----------



## JCarmel

RE Andy...No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...ad infinitum.


----------



## Ingélou

*Wimbledon 2014 begins on Monday, June 23 and ends on Sunday, July 6*

_(Just so you know...) _


----------



## shangoyal

Andy should rejoice as long as he is still champion - cause come July 6, he's not gonna be...


----------



## Dustin

French Open going on now! Djokovic is the slight favorite in the odds but if Nadal's back holds up I'll take him. Looking forward to this next week as the top guns start to play each other.

As far as Wimbledon, I'll once again take Nadal, assuming he can rid himself of this nagging back issue for good. I think Federer's time has passed. He's WAY too inconsistent and it's hard to watch him continuously dump unforced forehand errors into the net. Especially seeing as how in his prime, that forehand was magical.


----------



## Ingélou

Yes, Federer was so smoothly consistent - that was the point of him. I hate seeing champions fade as Old Father Time takes hold. And love it if they do it one more time. My favourite moment was when Ivanisevich, the wild card, won Wimbledon and gave O. F. Time a kick up the khyber.


----------



## Dustin

Ingélou said:


> Yes, Federer was so smoothly consistent - that was the point of him. I hate seeing champions fade as Old Father Time takes hold. And love it if they do it one more time. My favourite moment was when Ivanisevich, the wild card, won Wimbledon and gave O. F. Time a kick up the khyber.


I'm relatively young so I haven't been watching a real long time. I became a fan around 2006 when Nadal was kind of new on the championship scene and him and Federer were having those unbelievable Wimbledon battles starting in 2006 and culminating in the 2008 final in what a lot of the experts say is the best match of all time. The last 8 or 9 years have really been a golden era for tennis with the Big 4 and I'm lucky to have noticed how great this sport is.


----------



## Ingélou

Watching tennis is certainly much more interesting now that new rules & restrictions mean you don't get those boring 'big-serve' matches where the server just kept getting love games and the matches went on for ever - such as you got when Pete Sampras was King. He was a fabulous player, though.


----------



## Dustin

Ingélou said:


> Watching tennis is certainly much more interesting now that new rules & restrictions mean you don't get those boring 'big-serve' matches where the server just kept getting love games and the matches went on for ever - such as you got when Pete Sampras was King. He was a fabulous player, though.


Yeah I've got to agree. Aces are good for the players but not really for the fans. There's nothing better than those extended baseline rallies where you've got either Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, or Federer just hammering shots back and forth with incredible will, power, and creativity.


----------



## shangoyal

Can't wait to watch Sabine Lisicki at Wimbledon this year! I hope she wins.


----------



## Ingélou

French Open winners - Nadal & Sharapova. That should cheer up Kieran!
So - are these the Wimbledon Champions too?


----------



## Taggart

Fascinating to see that Murray has chosen Amelie Mauresmo as his coach. Wonder if a woman's touch will mean that he retains his Wimbledon crown. She's also won the Australian which Andy hasn't - yet.

Nice to see that Wimbledon finishes just before the York Early Music festival.


----------



## hpowders

Ingélou said:


> French Open winners - Nadal & Sharapova. That should cheer up Kieran!
> So - are these the Wimbledon Champions too?


Excellent! Now Sharapova can afford to buy 1300 more mirrors from which to admire herself.


----------



## clara s

hpowders said:


> Excellent! Now Sharapova can afford to buy 1300 more mirrors from which to admire herself.


who cares about Sharapova? hahaha

Rafa came back again for his 9th victory


----------



## hpowders

clara s said:


> who cares about Sharapova? hahaha
> 
> Rafa came back again for his 9th victory


I do! She has an open invitation to visit. My bathrooms all have wide panoramic mirrors. So far, the phone hasn't rung, but there's always tomorrow!


----------



## Dustin

Nadal is just a walking legend... Maybe even better as an all-time great than Federer and therefore the GOAT. His record against Federer is just dominating and he's just behind him in Grand Slam wins. 9 out of 10 French Opens is just unreal and the one he lost he was hobbled. 

Looking forward to Wimbledon for sure! I'll take Nadal once again.


----------



## clara s

hpowders said:


> I do! She has an open invitation to visit. My bathrooms all have wide panoramic mirrors. So far, the phone hasn't rung, but there's always tomorrow!


have you got a tennis court with panoramic mirrors?

in case she wants to practice hahaha


----------



## clara s

Dustin said:


> Nadal is just a walking legend... Maybe even better as an all-time great than Federer and therefore the GOAT. His record against Federer is just dominating and he's just behind him in Grand Slam wins. 9 out of 10 French Opens is just unreal and the one he lost he was hobbled.
> 
> Looking forward to Wimbledon for sure! I'll take Nadal once again.


that makes two of us


----------



## hpowders

clara s said:


> have you got a tennis court with panoramic mirrors?
> 
> in case she wants to practice hahaha


Good one. I owe you another Euro point! I will go broke laughing!! Ha! Ha!


----------



## clara s

hpowders said:


> Good one. I owe you another Euro point! I will go broke laughing!! Ha! Ha!


euro point visa will do nicely


----------



## hpowders

clara s said:


> euro point visa will do nicely


I'm too smart to ever give a shopaholic a visa!!


----------



## Kieran

Vamos! Rafa took Paris, an incredible, mind-blowing, record shattering achievement.

Has he anything left in him for Wimbo?

Will Novak recover quickly from his terrible defeat?

Has Murray enough time to find his game?

Is Roger _so yesterday_?

What about an outsider? Raonic? Wawrinka? Gulbis? kei? How quickly these names sound more like bandwagons, than tennis players... :devil:


----------



## Ingélou

It's all happening tomorrow - the weather's perfect at present. Not that *that* will last long!


----------



## Ingélou

Murray leads two sets to love over Goffin. Just hope it's not one of these 'British' matches that then goes to five sets & is lost, a la Henman! :lol:

Edit: nope, he's through.


----------



## Vaneyes

It's that time again?

Women's - Bouchard

Men's - The Joker

Men's Singles Draws (pdf)

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/draws/ms/msdraw.pdf

Women's Singles Draws (pdf)

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/draws/ws/wsdraw.pdf


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Vamos! Rafa took Paris, an incredible, mind-blowing, record shattering achievement.
> 
> Has he anything left in him for Wimbo?
> 
> Will Novak recover quickly from his terrible defeat?
> 
> Has Murray enough time to find his game?
> 
> Is Roger _so yesterday_?
> 
> What about an outsider? Raonic? Wawrinka? Gulbis? kei? How quickly these names sound more like bandwagons, than tennis players... :devil:


Wedgie has the devil on his side. Tough to beat. But this time goodness prevails. The Joker.

Raonic and Bouchard, Canada's only hope, after a teamless WC and Stanley Cup final.

Andy and Roger are done. :tiphat:


----------



## Kieran

Nice picks, Vaneyes.

This time Rafa enters, with rackets in one bag and a bunch of caveats in the other. My concern for him is the length of time it takes him to recover from majors. Last year, he skipped Halle because he was so wrecked after paris, and then was dumped in the first round at Wimbledon. He won the US Open, but his form dipped terribly after it.

He barely finished the final in Oz, with a crippled back that left him unable to move, and had Djoker won the 4th in Paris, I think Rafa would have been a lame duck again in the fifth. So what has he got left for Wimbledon? It's a mystery, and I suppose he's difficult to pick to win it, until we see how he is. Certainly, if he breezes through the first week, I'd expect him to do well in the second.

I thought both Andy and Novak looked great yesterday. We have Roger and Rafa today. Hope the weather stays good! :tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Wimbledon Weather is amazing, isn't it?

The Queue for tix is always available. 











Current singles action. Raonic should go through, but "Wedgie's" uncertain. 

http://www.wimbledon.com/index.html


----------



## Kieran

Young Wedgie stepped up and looked quite sharp at the finish. Bit nervous at first, then he started to get a tight grip. I thought he moved well, served harder than in paris and generally looks a lot better than he did at this stage last year. Um, the first round! He has Rosol the Destroyer next.

Good!


----------



## Dustin

I watched some of Nadal's match today and he looked better and better as the match went on. He is the ultimate momentum player. Like Ingelou said, I think if he wins his first 3 matches, he could go on a tear in the second week because he just seems to need a little time to warm up to the grass and when he does, the beast in him comes out.


----------



## Ingélou

It was Kieran who said it, I think. But you're most probably right, Dustin!


----------



## Kieran

He has Rosol next, and Rosol will be like Klizan in the sense that he'll be up for it. The guys who played Federer, Murray and Djoker seemed just happy to be there. With Rafa, they maybe sense his vulnerability the first week and want to make a name for themselves, the little so and so's.

But I agree, he started at a higher level this year, maybe more aware of the threat...


----------



## Vaneyes

Shocked & Stunned. Querrey/Tsonga match (9/9 in the 5th) suspended due to darkness. Hey, Wimby, this is embarrassing.

Even Wrigley Field eventually went bright. In 1988!


----------



## Taggart

I think Murray's through, I blinked, and the match was over.


----------



## Vaneyes

Fognini is punished. Glad to see Wimby getting some of their money back.

http://espn.go.com/tennis/wimbledon...fabio-fognini-fined-27500-wimbledon-outbursts


----------



## Kieran

Fognini is an idiot. I don't like sportsmen who pride themselves on being volatile. I prefer disciplined ones. Speaking of which - Rafa faces kryptonite today. This time Superman wins, right?


----------



## Ingélou

Well, Rafa is through. But one of my friends says his pre-serve ritual (straightening his shorts over his rump) is driving her nuts, and I know *just* what she means! How did he ever get into this habit?


----------



## Kieran

Yeah, he has an ever-expanding repertoire of tics and strange wardrobe adjustments. i think they're mainly post-watershed titillations of a degenerates substance - but wasn't he magnifique today! He was on the canvas, groggy and asking the ref who he was and what planet was he on - then his hand began to twitch like Hulk Hogans and he revived and saved set point with a lovely wristy bit of bling sent down the line.

Vamos! 

He looks mean and alert, people - let's hope he sustains it... :tiphat:


----------



## neoshredder

Vamos Rafa. Well done coming back from a set and a break. Rosol is dangerous.


----------



## Dustin

Glad Nadal made it through today! Now in the next round or two we'll start getting some really good match ups. 

I'm a little disappointed my fellow American Sam Querrey was knocked out but it was a heck of a match.


----------



## Dustin

Watching the Dolgopolov-Dimitrov match right now. Good stuff! These guys are hammering the ball and I have no idea who will come out of this. Dolgopolov just took the first set in a tiebreak.


----------



## shangoyal

Great fighting match between Petra Kvitova and the aging Venus Williams. As equal as they come, really.


----------



## Ingélou

Murray is through ... at last!


----------



## Matsps

I think it really shows Federer's strength at his peak when you consider him to have had a pretty terrible season last year and then see at Wimbledon he's seeded 4th... Both him and Nadal playing today. Could there be a shock like the woman's singles yesterday? Maybe...


----------



## Ingélou

Nope - Federer and Rafa are both through.


----------



## Vaneyes

Joker and Andy are journeying toward confrontation.

The inevitable is waiting for Roger--a thrashing by Wawrinka.

Raonic and Nishikori should tussle for a Wedgie meeting. Both can beat Wedgie, if the stars align. Tall order at this stage in their careers. 

Not long ago, Nishikori gave Wedgie a bloody nose, but let him off the hook by coming up lame. Raonic needs to intimidate Wedgie with 1st serve. His soft shots are not quite there yet. I like Nishikori's overall game, and Raonic's power. Of the two, Raonic should be the first to get to the next world level.


----------



## Kieran

Young Ralph is looking ominously in the mood for a scrap. That's five matches out of his last six at a Grand Slam - including Ferrer and Djoker in Paris - where he's lost the first set and sternly battered through in four.

He took his time today, but in the last three sets he was returning and smiting backhands as well as ever. He'll be tough to stop.

I didn't see Federer, but he's gliding through. Serena is out, though! That's a shock, n'est pas (as her opponent might put it)...


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> Not long ago, Nishikori gave Wedgie a bloody nose, but let him off the hook by coming up lame. Raonic needs to intimidate Wedgie with 1st serve. His soft shots are not quite there yet. I like Nishikori's overall game, and Raonic's power. Of the two, Raonic should be the first to get to the next world level.


They're not Wedgies - he's adjusting his Duracell batteries...


----------



## sabrina

Now as both Serena and Li Na are out, the next seed is Simona Halep, who originally was seed 3...
Sharapova is still on....so is E.Buchard...


----------



## Kieran

sabrina said:


> Now as both Serena and Li Na are out, the next seed is Simona Halep, who originally was seed 3...
> Sharapova is still on....so is E.Buchard...


Yeah, that's 3 strong players still in. I think Sharapova has possibly become favourite now, has she? I'd like Halep to get it, though...


----------



## Vaneyes

Keeping my eyes on Bouchard (13) and Woz (16). Both are better than their double-digit seeds.Perhaps Woz has extra incentive...on the rebound from that all-consuming Rors relationship. Woz has the toughness. Bouchard needs more of that.


----------



## Skilmarilion

I'm quite late to this party. 

I'll have to do what is obligatory, and that is praise the mighty Rafa for every ounce of energy he's putting into this dog-fight - and it's exactly that for him at this stage in his career. The ominously speedy grass at SW19 has been a little much for his knees to handle in recent times.

Trouble for everyone else is - this guy is a champion, one of the greatest ever and in actual fact the greatest grass-court player of our generation except for Mr. Gillette. The nice thing about watching him this year is how he's using his now veteran savvy to get through these tricky openers, and slowly but surely he's remembering - re-finding that magic.

I don't think he's a big favourite, but I think he can do it. For now, Muzza and the Djoke look like the men to beat.

Vamos. :tiphat:


----------



## Skilmarilion

side issue -- 10 years on and I still really fancy Maria.


----------



## Vaneyes

That's enough, fanboy. Those (Wedgie & Maria) are the two villains.


----------



## Vaneyes

Stuff on the man/coach who helped make Andy what he is today. Can Andy repeat without "Ivan the Terrible"?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotla...reason-andy-murray-split-with-lendl-1-3424521

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/shortcuts/2014/jun/22/wimbledon-wont-be-same-without-ivan-lendl

http://variety.com/2014/dirt/real-estalker/ivan-lendl-re-lists-rural-connecticut-estate-1201253189/


----------



## shangoyal

Don't forget Sabine Lisicki, who can surprise just about anybody.


----------



## neoshredder

Bad luck for Nadal with the scheduling. He will now have to play on Tuesday and Wednesday to be fair with the scheduling in his half of the draw. Breaking up his nice pattern of every other day in slams. Frustrating decision not to have the unfinished matches played on Sunday.


----------



## shangoyal

neoshredder said:


> Bad luck for Nadal with the scheduling. He will now have to play on Tuesday and Wednesday to be fair with the scheduling in his half of the draw. Breaking up his nice pattern of every other day in slams. Frustrating decision not to have the unfinished matches played on Sunday.


I'd say with the brand of power tennis Nadal plays, it's quite fair to have him play two days in a row. I mean, it's not _really_ fair, but it's not blasphemy as he beats a lot of players on stamina alone.


----------



## Kieran

shangoyal said:


> I'd say with the brand of power tennis Nadal plays, it's quite fair to have him play two days in a row. I mean, it's not _really_ fair, but it's not blasphemy as he beats a lot of players on stamina alone.


I dunno if it's stamina or will, but he seems to have more of both, anyway. I don't think he'll suffer playing two days in a row - he might have bit your hand off if you offered that to him last week. And he gets to hang up his knickers for a days extra rest, too...


----------



## neoshredder

Kieran said:


> I dunno if it's stamina or will, but he seems to have more of both, anyway. I don't think he'll suffer playing two days in a row - he might have bit your hand off if you offered that to him last week. And he gets to hang up his knickers for a days extra rest, too...


Well the extra day off I think actually hurts him imo. I think nerves kick in more the longer you wait between matches. So he might go 4 or 5 sets. Then he has to play the next day hoping his opponent struggled just as much to get to the next round. Kyrgios is a very dangerous player. Huge serve and forehand.


----------



## shangoyal

I like Nadal a lot because of how relentless he is, but I want to see Djokovic or Murray or Federer win this time. Just can't explain it - the Mallorcan seems to have had his fun already on clay.


----------



## Ingélou

It was nice watching Murray go through yesterday, though as a Brit, he couldn't get through the match without a wobble, when he got his serve broken back after the rain-break. But maybe we'd be disappointed if he didn't make us suffer! :lol:


----------



## shangoyal

Anybody watched Kerber v Sharapova? It was a treat, one of the greatest matches I have seen in a while.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kyrgios is playing magnificently. I suspect Wedgie/Devil will hafta find something beside the kitchen sink to throw at him. Gamesmanship, medical time-out? :devil:


----------



## Vaneyes

shangoyal said:


> Anybody watched Kerber v Sharapova? It was a treat, one of the greatest matches I have seen in a while.


Muh belle Bouchard's gonna have a tough go, unless her 1st serves start hitting paydirt.

The Woz, dumped again.


----------



## Vaneyes

A star is born.


----------



## sabrina

OMG, Nadal has just lost to Kyrgios...Anyway I was more drown into the ladies tournament, but without Nadal, the men just lost my interest, LOL. I love Nadal, but I am OK with his loss. Congrats to the young Greek who won. 
What I hate in men's tennis is the huge un-returnable service... That makes the game slightly boring.


----------



## Taggart

Incredible match. Somebody said it was close, so we thought we'd watch. At first, I thought it was Rafa, dropping the first set as usual. Then as the match progressed, it was obvious that Nick Kyrgios was something special. We missed the trick shot though. Fascinating, it's available in the UK on the BBC site, but the You Tube version isn't so you'll have to google for it.

Interestingly, in today's Telegraph Rod Laver was saying that Kyrgios was a potential Slam winner. Hope it's not for a while so that Murray can pick up some more silverware.


----------



## shangoyal

Great day of tennis!

I was a little shaken to see what happened to Serena today though:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/serena-williams-wimbledon-withdraw-sick-doubles


----------



## Kieran

Kyrgios was like Sampras reborn. No complaints. The little **** was too good! :lol:


----------



## Bulldog

I just want some new people to win - so tired of hearing about the Williams sisters, Federer, Nadal, etc. Maybe this will be the year with the sisters both gone. Another good sign with Nadal blowing his match.


----------



## neoshredder

Nadal never plays well with 2 days off. He is such a rhythm player.


----------



## shangoyal

I told you Rafa had had it with 9 titles in RG - it's already too much, his load is getting heavier, he should retire. It's not FAIR to keep playing!


----------



## Vaneyes

Joker & Andy seem certain for one sf. Not so fast for the other, which could be any of four possible combos.

Andy is getting dangerously close to repeating.

Re Ladies, Bouchard and Kerber winner vs Halep sf, should present the Wimby winner.


----------



## neoshredder

Djokovic will win Wimbledon this time.


----------



## Vaneyes

And Andy is getting dangerously close to expulsion.


----------



## Taggart

Gone. Definite changing of the guard. If Wawrinka beats Federer, then only Djokovic will remain of the big four - if he does.

Shame Andy couldn't have made more of a match of it but the demolition job by Dimitrov was impressive.


----------



## Vaneyes

A "Sad Eyes" tribute to Andy's '14 Wimby.


----------



## Kieran

Andy went out with nary a whimper. Virginia Wade caught flak for saying the nurturing, nourishing female tones of Amelie would be a poor substitute for the disciplined intensity of Lendl: she was right.

Federer is down a set and Djoker is struggling to dispatch Cilic.

I would love if they both lost too, and we had a Dimi-Cilic semi on one side, and Kyrgios-Stan on the other...


----------



## Ingélou

I'd love it too - it would vindicate the fall of our heroes!


----------



## Kieran

Federer is through - Stan seemed to have problem with his stomach. Butterflies, most likely.

Young Nick looks knackered out there, but Raonic is looking good...


----------



## shangoyal

This is an interesting read here: http://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis...to-to-fix-tennis/story-fndkzym4-1226967591030

PS. I think Fedex has a real chance this time.


----------



## Matsps

I'd love to see Federer win one more Wimbledon, but I just can't see it happening. =/


----------



## Kieran

I'd hate to see Federer winning Wimbledon! :lol: He sneaks in when Rafa is injured or beaten and takes them. If he beat Rafa now and then, I wouldn't begrudge him. Rafa goes through everybody to win them, but Roger always goes round Rafa.

I think he has a definite chance, though. Hard to say how the two youngsters will handle their first Wimbledon semis...


----------



## shangoyal

Federer played 36 consecutive grand slam quarter-finals by going around the great players. Right!


----------



## Vaneyes

I thought Raonic (39 aces) and Bouchard (better service, ferocious volley) played their best matches so far.

It's time for Roger to go. Bouchard with three consecutive grand slam sfs is ready for the next level.

Joker rushes by Dimitrov and toe-taps for his usual big payday.


----------



## senza sordino

Milos Raonic is the first Canadian to make it to the semi finals in over 100 years according to the news this evening. Highest ranked Canadian ever.


----------



## Vaneyes

senza sordino said:


> Milos Raonic is the first Canadian to make it to the semi finals in over 100 years according to the news this evening. Highest ranked Canadian ever.


I wish he would give serve lessons to Genie.


----------



## Kieran

shangoyal said:


> Federer played 36 consecutive grand slam quarter-finals by going around the great players. Right!


He's only beaten Rafa twice at slam level, the last when Rafa was 21. He heaved a huge sigh and threw a party when Rafa was beaten, believe me - it meant he actually had a chance, as opposed to having none. Don't get me wrong, Federer is great, but I think he's jammy too, but also, it's not his fault Rafa lost. He's looked after his own section quite well.

Rafa is increasingly finding that notoriously difficult FO-Wimbledon Double hard to complete. He's done it twice, but it's harder for him now to make that transition to grass, after winning the French. Slam tennis is taking more out of Rafa now, than it did. But next year, there's an extra week between the two, so that'll help him, hopefully.

Is this Roger's really final chance to win a major? I think all four will be thinking it's a great opportunity, but who knows how the youngsters will respond to the pressure? I expect a Federer-Djokovic final with Novak taking the title on Sunday - unless it rains and they play indoors. Then, it could get interesting...


----------



## shangoyal

Kieran said:


> He's only beaten Rafa twice at slam level, the last when Rafa was 21. He heaved a huge sigh and threw a party when Rafa was beaten, believe me - it meant he actually had a chance, as opposed to having none. Don't get me wrong, Federer is great, but I think he's jammy too, but also, it's not his fault Rafa lost. He's looked after his own section quite well.
> 
> Rafa is increasingly finding that notoriously difficult FO-Wimbledon Double hard to complete. He's done it twice, but it's harder for him now to make that transition to grass, after winning the French. Slam tennis is taking more out of Rafa now, than it did. But next year, there's an extra week between the two, so that'll help him, hopefully.
> 
> Is this Roger's really final chance to win a major? I think all four will be thinking it's a great opportunity, but who knows how the youngsters will respond to the pressure? I expect a Federer-Djokovic final with Novak taking the title on Sunday - unless it rains and they play indoors. Then, it could get interesting...


I hope Dimitrov wins and gives us new air to breathe.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Nick was great win first up time against Nadal 


Lets see what he can do next grand slam


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

sabrina said:


> OMG, Nadal has just lost to Kyrgios...Anyway I was more drown into the ladies tournament, but without Nadal, the men just lost my interest, LOL. I love Nadal, but I am OK with his loss. Congrats to the young Greek who won.
> What I hate in men's tennis is the huge un-returnable service... That makes the game slightly boring.


Was great win first up note that hes an Aussie, not Greek Don't let the name fool you


----------



## Kieran

shangoyal said:


> I hope Dimitrov wins and gives us new air to breathe.


:lol: You and me both!


----------



## Vaneyes

Isn't Joker fresh air? Go Novak! I know Milos is. Go Milos!

Today, muh belle kept the pedal to the metal, and beat a fine wounded warrior in Halep. Three of the ladies semi-finalists are wounded warriors. Yes, Genie meets another on Saturday.

I like Genie's aggressiveness, but there are times when it doesn't take a smash to a corner to beat an opponent. The fine edge will come for this to be champion. The service will come, too. We fans must be patient about greatness developing. :tiphat:


----------



## Kieran

Are we looking at a Canadian Double at Wimbo?


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Are we looking at a Canadian Double at Wimbo?


Wonder what the bookies pre-Wimby odds on that were. Apart from astronomical.

Genie, yes. Milos must continue his ace-crazy ways, and even that may not be enough.


----------



## Kieran

Milos has been quite calm too, hasn't he? Does he have what it takes to beat the great veteran, on centre court? Well, the huge serve will help but if it goes to tiebreaks, he'll need more...


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> Milos has been quite calm too, hasn't he? Does he have what it takes to beat the great veteran, on centre court? Well, the huge serve will help but if it goes to tiebreaks, *he'll need more*...


Calmness is absolutely required at this level now. The field is too deep. The wildmen of the past only fill pages of lore.

Milos the lumbering giant has some room for finesse, that's for sure. However, for sake of argument, Roger's slowed a step or two...his bigger racket has helped some, but a jumbo might be needed for his sf. :lol:

i'm concerned for the Joker. He must be feeling all those involuntary gymnast moves in the last match. He was already ailing. Re wounded warriors, the stars are trying to align for Genie and Milos.


----------



## Kieran

What's with Milos right arm? It's white. Is it metallic too? With wires inside, humming away diligently when he starts his serve? Looking more closely at him, he looks like a 1950's spaceman. Is he sent here from the past, some mechanical technology that was hidden from view? I'm suspicious of him now. In his pressers he makes random beeping sounds. Hmm...


----------



## Vaneyes

From a coupla days ago, Brad Gilbert speaks.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kieran said:


> What's with Milos right arm? It's white. Is it metallic too? With wires inside, humming away diligently when he starts his serve? Looking more closely at him, he looks like a 1950's spaceman. Is he sent here from the past, some mechanical technology that was hidden from view? I'm suspicious of him now. In his pressers he makes random beeping sounds. Hmm...


OK, that's enough jars.


----------



## shangoyal

To me, Milos Raonic looks like the James Bond who never was.


----------



## Vaneyes

shangoyal said:


> To me, Milos Raonic looks like the James Bond who never was.


No. Superman.


----------



## Vaneyes

Roger on Superman...

"Well, he's got a big serve. Clearly that's what is most visible when you see him play. That's the hardest to deal with, I guess. It keeps him in the match. Doesn't matter almost how he plays his return game, he's been serving very well for this entire tournament. 
I've played him in some interesting places like Halle where we basically didn't have any rallies whatsoever. I think it was 7‑6 in the third. I played him in Madrid. I think it was even on the blue clay back then where it was also very difficult a manage his serve. 
So I've played him some interesting places. Here clearly on the grass with a serve like that it's never going to be an easy match. That's where you then sort of go back to your own game and say, I'll take care of my own serves and see what I can do on the return. That's my mindset right now."


----------



## shangoyal

I like how Federer betrays the belief that he is going to beat Raonic. He seems to be saying - "come on, it takes more than a big serve to beat me."


----------



## Vaneyes

shangoyal said:


> I like how Federer betrays the belief that he is going to beat Raonic. He seems to be saying - "come on, it takes more than a big serve to beat me."


"F" sounds frightened to me.


----------



## Vaneyes

Too bad Wimby to YT edited the fun parts (Baby Bieber, Twitter marriage proposals, etc.) from *Princess of Wimby's* post-Halep-match interview today. They went with official stiff upper lip.


----------



## Dustin

Well I haven't commented because I've just finished my 2 day binge of men's quarterfinals watching on the DVR. Didn't watch every minute but I watched a lot of them. I am super excited for Djokovic-Dimitrov. Dimitrov looks extremely impressive this year and I think it could be a tight match. 

In the other semi, I guess I'll take Federer although I've not got a lot of confidence in the pick. Roger was getting crushed by Stan in the first set and then Stan started playing bad and let him back in. 

For a prediction, I'll say Dimitrov beats Djokovic, Roger beats Raonic, and in the final, Dimitrov wins. Dimitrov could lose that potential final if the nerves overpower him though. But based on talent, I think he's better at this stage in their careers.


----------



## Kieran

Fed was damning Raonic with faint praise, wasn't he? He's done this before, when the teenage Rafa start mugging him everywhere, old Wodger said Rafa was a "one dimensional" player and he'd figger him out. To be fair, he's still got time.

He's right about how important it is for him to hold his own serve and try sneak in a few returns, and he's good at the game plan too. A lot will depend on whether Milos gets tight, or blazes freely. He might also get his chances in Roger's service games if he pressures him enough...


----------



## shangoyal

Gosh Kieran, you have to bring in Rafa into every argument!


----------



## Kieran

shangoyal said:


> Gosh Kieran, you have to bring in Rafa into every argument!


No, I'm showing the guy has previous in these kinda remarks. I often snigger when I hear people say he's classy, humble, all that stuff. I think of him as a preening narcissist who would lick himself to death if he was made of cream...


----------



## shangoyal

Hehe, maybe. Interesting thought that. Even I don't want to see him winning Wimbledon. We need more Grigors, Nicks and Miloses at the top.


----------



## Kieran

That's true. One thing I liked about Nick is that he barged Rafa out of the way. A lot of the youngsters seem to be waiting for the older guys to basically die before they make their move, and that'll be the curious thing about today: will Grigor and Milos have the guts and wherewithal to disrespect their elders?

EDIT: you may have noticed that I don't like Federer and I love watching Rafa! :lol:


----------



## Taggart

Kieran said:


> EDIT: you may have noticed that I don't like Federer and I love watching Rafa! :lol:


It's not really *that *obvious.


----------



## Dustin

Kieran said:


> No, I'm showing the guy has previous in these kinda remarks. I often snigger when I hear people say he's classy, humble, all that stuff. I think of him as a preening narcissist who would lick himself to death if he was made of cream...


Haha I've kinda noticed this too. He IS pretty arrogant. I remember the time a few years back when he had Djokovic on the ropes in a US open match and Djokovic hit an unbelievable return of serve for a winner to save match point I believe. Djokovic then went on to win the match. I don't remember Fed's exact words after the match, but he said something along the lines of his shot was risky and stupid to try so he shouldn't have even tried it and I should be the winner.

But hey, if I was in the top 1 or 2 greatest tennis players ever, I can't say if I would be arrogant or not because it's probably a hard thing to fight with his accomplishments.


----------



## Dustin

Ok so it's Federer vs Djokovic XXXXXXI (or something close to that). Predictions?

I really am torn on this one. I have no idea what will happen or what I want to happen. I'll say Djokovic wins in 4 though.


----------



## Ingélou

I want Federer to win (so there, Kieran - I *like* him!) but I think Djokovic will, and he's nice too.


----------



## Matsps

One of those days where you wish you weren't working while the final is on. <___< :'(


----------



## Vaneyes




----------



## Vaneyes

*Genie* wins Saturday, and *Joker* wins Sunday. Oh, wouldn't that be grand.


----------



## neoshredder

Djokovic will beat Federer on Sunday.


----------



## Kieran

I'm between a rock and hard place on Sunday. I suppose Djoker winning is the least worst option.

Whoever's pretty in the women's final, I hope she wins....


----------



## neoshredder

Kieran said:


> I'm between a rock and hard place on Sunday. I suppose Djoker winning is the least worst option.
> 
> Whoever's pretty in the women's final, I hope she wins....


Bouchard it is then.


----------



## sabrina

OMG what a boring game for the women's final. Great for Kvitova...In men I have no clue, and no big favourite. I don't like Federer, so I guess hopefully Djoky will win.


----------



## Kieran

sabrina said:


> OMG what a boring game for the women's final. Great for Kvitova...In men I have no clue, and no big favourite. I don't like Federer, so I guess hopefully Djoky will win.


I wonder is there a way that both of them can lose?

Yeah, glad I didn't watch the women's final...


----------



## Vaneyes

The dynamic Canuck-duo fairytale is over. May we now proceed to the Joker and "F" streetfight.

My goodness, Milos aka Superman and Genie aka Princess of Wimby were treated like ragdolls the past two days. Hopefully, they can learn from, and return to battle stronger. Potential career-makers for both...or else.


----------



## shangoyal

The Bryan brothers are so good, they play like robots. The other pair looks more human and shaky and expectant of what might be a big moment for them. They are also playing better than the veterans.


----------



## Vaneyes

shangoyal said:


> The Bryan brothers are so good, they play like robots. The other pair looks more human and shaky and expectant of what might be a big moment for them. *They are also playing better than the veterans.*


Maybe they should be tested.

For those interested, the latest juice on juice (for performance enhancement) in the world of pro tennis.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ca/

Whispers started again this week with Serena Williams' strange behavior in her doubles match. I'll guess it might be something she's taking for weight-loss...not the bulking up we saw in her heydays.


----------



## Vaneyes

McEnroe analysis.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/28176400


----------



## Kieran

30 minutes to go, I feel like cheering!

Come on, none of them!!!


----------



## Ingélou

Roger takes the first set! I'm expecting the Joker to win, but at least honour is satisfied.


----------



## Kieran

Ingélou said:


> Roger takes the first set! I'm expecting the Joker to win, but at least honour is satisfied.


Well, apart from the break of serve, Roger has looked more sure on the big points. He's more aggressive. This second set might be problematical for Nole to serve it out...


----------



## Kieran

He held and won the set. It's a good match so far, high level. Hard to say who wins, but I think that Nole has looked better, apart from the big points in the first. But Wodger is a tough old cussed son of a...


----------



## Ingélou

The Joker takes the second - despite his disturbing new hobby of grass-skating. I do agree with you, Kieran, that he's the stronger player, alas.


----------



## Kieran

I can't believe you like Federer, Ingelou! What do you like about the guy?


----------



## Ingélou

Joker takes the third set! 

What do I like about Federer? He has a lovely face with heart-melting eyes, he's a married man with two sets of twins, he's Swiss, like my cousins, and he has a very elegant & stylish way with shots when he's on form. Also, I always like it when older ones show that the game's not over for them yet.

Not to say that I dislike the Joker - he's nice too, and anyway, he's probably going to win.


----------



## Ingélou

Roger's back in! After having a championship point against him, he broke the joker and took the fourth set. What a match this is!

*But the Joker wins - really well done, Djokovich!*


----------



## hpowders

Ingélou said:


> Roger's back in! After having a championship point against him, he broke the joker and took the fourth set. What a match this is!
> 
> *But the Joker wins - really well done, Djokovich!*


Very dramatic.


----------



## shangoyal

I don't get the glassy-eyed hero worship everybody has for Federer right now. He is almost bigger than the sport. But he played amazingly well, no doubt.


----------



## neoshredder

Vamos Djokovic. My second favorite player.


----------



## Kieran

Thanks Ingelou!

Great win by Novak, I thought he was a goner after the fourth. Dramatic stuff - and credit to Roger, he's amazing the way he kept in there, especially given that he's five years older than Novak....


----------



## Dustin

Unbelievable match and highly entertaining. I'm happy for Novak because of the fact that he is in his prime and has struggled in the crucial moments of Slam finals for a couple years now. Roger has enough Slam wins for 10 normal tennis players lives so I don't feel too bad for him.


----------



## Vaneyes

For more than a few moments, I thought my horse was going to break, and the "old man" would cross the finish line first.

A great match, which served as a fine testament to both careers.:tiphat::tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Ingélou said:


> Joker takes the third set!
> 
> What do I like about Federer? He has a lovely face with heart-melting eyes, he's a married man with two sets of twins, he's Swiss, like my cousins, and he has a very elegant & stylish way with shots when he's on form. Also, I always like it when older ones show that the game's not over for them yet.
> 
> Not to say that I dislike the Joker - he's nice too, and anyway, he's probably going to win.


Whuh is it, that nobody talks about Roger's nose.


----------



## sabrina

I was quite happy for Djokey for his great win. Awesome fight...Happy Federer did not win. I didn't like his position after the match...a bit too selfish, in a way understandable.


----------



## Kieran

Vaneyes said:


> Whuh is it, that nobody talks about Roger's nose.


It's the...um...elephant in the room...


----------



## Ingélou

Vaneyes said:


> Whuh is it, that nobody talks about Roger's nose.


Because its beauty is so obvious?


----------



## Vaneyes

Ingélou said:


> Because its beauty is so obvious?


Okay, now I understand.


----------



## Vaneyes

sabrina said:


> I was quite happy for Djokey for his great win. Awesome fight...Happy Federer did not win. I didn't like his position after the match...a bit too selfish, in a way understandable.


I thought his answer about up 'n coming talent was interesting, to say the least.

Post-match transcripts:

"F"

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=100739

Joker

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=100741


----------



## shangoyal

I think Federer is being realistic about up and coming talent. Obviously, 2-3 years down the line will be a time when the Big 4 will not win most of the tournaments, but it is difficult to imagine how champions like Fed, Raf, Novak, and Andy could emerge from the current crop of youngsters. I think the next true champion is still probably 14 or 15.


----------



## Kieran

That's true. I mean, Dimitrov is hardly an 18 year old rookie: he's 23. That's not young by any measure. I know players are peaking later, but that's a physical thing, not mental. Dimitrov did well, but didn't Kyrgios look more the real deal, by barging Rafa outta the way, instead of waiting in line until he basically dies, or retires?

I would love to see the likes of Dimitrov show more impatience to take their place, but I think you're right, shangoyal - the next great champ may not yet be on the radar...


----------



## shangoyal

Yes, most good players turn into Lleyton Hewitts and Andy Roddicks, who were great but you know... (shrugs)


----------



## Vaneyes

I know there's great affection for Andy here, but why is he part of a Big 4 discussion, when he's only won two majors? Big 3, okay.

I know the "resemblance" question was asked of Roger, so he answered it the best way he could after a gruelling five-setter. But rather than pontificating in such a setting, he could've/should've saved it for a book once he hangs up the jock. Reflection, then. Now? Just thank God you're where you are at this point in time, and leave it at that.

Ol' fart athletes are the worst at such. I think of the Big 3 in golf---Palmer, Nicklaus, Player. Same thing.


----------



## Radames

Some kid could come out of nowhere any day. I still remember when some nobody called pete Sampras beat Ivan Lendl at the US Open. Nadal has had health problems and Federer is pretty much done - he will be a 33 yo geezer next month. Djokovic and Murray have consistency problems. Milos Raonic, Dominic Thiem, Matteo Donati, Nick Kyrgios, and Bernard Tomic are all said to have potential.


----------



## Dustin

Vaneyes said:


> I know there's great affection for Andy here, but why is he part of a Big 4 discussion, when he's only won two majors? Big 3, okay.
> 
> I know the "resemblance" question was asked of Roger, so he answered it the best way he could after a gruelling five-setter. But rather than pontificating in such a setting, he could've/should've saved it for a book once he hangs up the jock. Reflection, then. Now? Just thank God you're where you are at this point in time, and leave it at that.
> 
> Ol' fart athletes are the worst at such. I think of the Big 3 in golf---Palmer, Nicklaus, Player. Same thing.


I think Andy is placed in the "Big 4" because despite his comparatively low number of majors, he is still significantly better over the last 5 or 6 years than anyone outside it. He also does quite well in big tournaments outside the majors. I have no problem with him being part of the "Big 4" although there is obviously some separation within the "Big 4".


----------



## Ingélou

*Wimbledon 2015* - will soon be here!

In today's paper - John Inverdale has been dropped as anchorman of the BBC's Wimbledon coverage after a string of on-air gaffes, including his notorious remark that a female tennis champion (Marion Bartoli) was 'never going to be a looker'.

You saw it here first - well, some of you! 

I must say, there's a photo of Ms Bartoli alongside the article, and she looks very nice. Hmmm!


----------



## Ingélou

Just out of interest - which Wimbledon commentators do you like best? I do enjoy John McEnroe, I confess. And Sue Barker is always fab as the lead presenter.


----------



## Ingélou

This was the thread in which I argued with moody :tiphat:, who said similarly sexist things about women tennis players' body builds. But I wish he was still on the forum to argue with.

Hopefully, he'll be watching Wimbledon in his nursing home, and finding something to enjoy in his illness.


----------



## Pugg

Ingélou said:


> Just out of interest - which Wimbledon commentators do you like best? I do enjoy John McEnroe, I confess. And Sue Barker is always fab as the lead presenter.


Sue Barker is a legend , I also like Andrew Castle.
I like to hear how Andy Roddick is going to do things.


----------



## Proms Fanatic

John Inverdale just spent two weeks presenting the French Open on ITV alongside Marion Bartoli so I guess she's already forgiven him!

Could working for ITV be the reason why he's not fronting the BBC coverage anymore?


----------



## Ingélou

Proms Fanatic said:


> John Inverdale just spent two weeks presenting the French Open on ITV alongside Marion Bartoli so I guess she's already forgiven him!
> 
> Could working for ITV be the reason why he's not fronting the BBC coverage anymore?


Sounds plausible - not as good to read about in a newspaper, though! :lol:


----------



## Ingélou

Okay, we now need you to name who you think is going to win Wimbledon this year, male and female?
The Correct Ones will earn honour and renown - yes, I'm doing this on the cheap...


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Boring choices for me I'm afraid, Djoko and Serena.


----------



## Ingélou

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon-2015-andy-murray-roger-5874043

Is Roger Federer 'past it' now, though?


----------



## Skilmarilion

Ingélou said:


> Just out of interest - which Wimbledon commentators do you like best? I do enjoy John McEnroe, I confess. And Sue Barker is always fab as the lead presenter.


Becker was best, before he took up that job on the dark side!

I don't find anyone in the BBC coverage interesting aside from McEnroe. I actually quite like Rusedski's work for Sky. I know he does a little bit for the BBC during Wimbledon but I think he could be pushed higher up the pecking order.



Ingélou said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon-2015-andy-murray-roger-5874043
> 
> Is Roger Federer 'past it' now, though?


The only one in that article who is certainly past it is Lleyton Hewitt.


----------



## Ingélou

Some interesting stuff about Djokovic - it's an 'open secret' that he & Federer don't get on, apparently!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/

and today: http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/novak-djokovic/


----------



## Ingélou

Not long to go now - there was an article at the weekend where Andy Murray's wife said she thought he could win Wimbledon this year. If only...!


----------



## Pugg

I do hope that _Tomáš Berdych_ is doing well this year, winning seems almost impossible .
It's such a nice guy, so, go Tomáš ........make your fans proud. :tiphat:


----------



## Ingélou

Yep - the first day of Wimbledon 2015 is here at last!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon/11704584/wimbledon-order-of-play-today.html

I wonder if there'll be any shock results in the first round? :devil:


----------



## Ingélou

Apparently - and incredibly, given what the weather's been like for us - the authorities at Wimbledon are getting worried that there'll be a heat wave, with health problems for spectators and players alike. Gosh - but I hope not, of course!


----------



## Taggart

Ingélou said:


> Apparently - and incredibly, given what the weather's been like for us - the authorities at Wimbledon are getting worried that there'll be a heat wave, with health problems for spectators and players alike. Gosh - but I hope not, of course!


Probably means we'll go into a third week because of rain delays. :devil:


----------



## Pugg

Taggart said:


> Probably means we'll go into a third week because of rain delays. :devil:


Or even worse ; playing on _Sunday_ to keep the order of play intact :lol:


----------



## Ingélou

Djokovic and Serena through - surprise, surprise! 
Who's up for today? - oh yes, Andy Murray...


----------



## Proms Fanatic

The first rounds I very rarely watch the top players - the vast majority of the matches are one-sided and uncompetitive.

I much prefer to watch perhaps the lower seeds or the wildcard Brits, there's plenty of exciting matches on the outside courts!


----------



## Pugg

Proms Fanatic said:


> The first rounds I very rarely watch the top players - the vast majority of the matches are one-sided and uncompetitive.
> 
> I much prefer to watch perhaps the lower seeds or the wildcard Brits, there's plenty of exciting matches on the outside courts!


But if one depends on only the BBC (outside the U.K) , we don't have "The Red button"
So it's either that or nothing.....


----------



## Vaneyes

Haven't watched much yet, but that end is nigh.

Some extra reading...:tiphat:

'At the heart of Wimbledon lies the IBM bunker'

http://arstechnica.com/information-...loring-the-ibm-bunker-the-brain-of-wimbledon/


----------



## Vaneyes

Afterthought...wondering if those bunker folk enjoy *Pimm's* with their *Pringles*.


----------



## sospiro

Dustin Brown was outrageous!!!!!!! So pleased he's won. A BBC journalist said earlier "Everyone loves Rafa". Erm no - _everyone_ does not love him cos I don't!


----------



## Ingélou

Gosh! What will Kieran say? 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/33371484


----------



## Guest

Ingélou said:


> Apparently - and incredibly, given what the weather's been like for us - the authorities at Wimbledon are getting worried that there'll be a heat wave, with health problems for spectators and players alike. Gosh - but I hope not, of course!


To be fair, it's probably the wrong sort of heat.


----------



## Kieran

Ingélou said:


> Gosh! What will Kieran say?
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/33371484


Shocked. Annoyed, actually. Why do players pick Rafa to play their greatest, once-a-lifetime match? Brown is 31 and he has a game that's tailor-made for Wimbledon, so why hasn't he played like this every time he steps on court? Bloke can't even pop the top 100. If I was his coach, I'd sue him for lost earnings. He'll dribble it all away against Troicki. I don't understand blokes like that. Rosol was the same. All the geezers who mug Rafa at Wimbo are going to form a football team someday in the future. It's kinda bizarre how fired up these blokes are for Rafa.

And Rafa himself is playing awful. His forehand is like kids putting stink bombs in your letterbox. Euuggh! All the stuff that usually works, doesn't. He's struggling. He'll be back, I'm sure, but the aura is taking a hiding.

Stan looks good though, doesn't he? Great event for Brits too, with James Ward getting through, and Heather facing Serena tomorrow...


----------



## TurnaboutVox

Kieran said:


> And Rafa himself is playing awful.


Well, surely this is more than half the problem...

Andy Murray looks nicely angular and atonal this year though. Surely a Federer - Murray semi and the winner of that vs. Djokovic in the final?


----------



## Taggart

TurnaboutVox said:


> Andy Murray looks nicely angular and atonal this year though. Surely a Federer - Murray semi and the winner of that vs. Djokovic in the final?


Maybe even Andy v Stan?


----------



## Pyotr

I think he needs to dump uncle Tony. Get a new coach, make a new start. He doesn't have that jump in his step anymore. Maybe Rafa needs a new workout program. He needs a plan. Do something.


----------



## Albert7

Hurrah, my gal just kicked butt yesterday afternoon.










She crushed an American player like a flattened steak sandwich. Go girl!


----------



## Skilmarilion

If there were rankings for grass court play only, Nadal probably wouldn't make the top 75. Given his results here since 2012, I don't understand how this was a "stunning" loss or anything like that. No. I read the headline yesterday without raising an eyebrow.

The real worry has been off the grass, for us Rafa cheerleaders. But believe me, going forward, we will still dare to dream. :tiphat:

As ever in situations like these, rooting for Stan becomes our exception to the _No Nada, no botha'_ rule.


----------



## Skilmarilion

And yes Albert, Sabine Lisicki is bloody gorgeous.


----------



## Vaneyes

Boris looked dapper, eschewing ice-cream vendor attire for Wimby.


----------



## Vaneyes

Andy's gone to the dogs.


----------



## Vaneyes

It's looking like the *Big 4 *will make it into the semis, after swatting off weak challenges. Granted, two of them have yet to play their guaranteed outcome. That is, if Joker can muster strength after apology to ballgirl. 

More prognosis, if I may. The eventual '15 men's champ will come from the Joker & Stan match. 

DM Wimby tidbits and photos::tiphat:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-got-embroiled-racism-row-court-outburst.html


----------



## Pugg

_I do_ like to mention the brave attempt of Vasek Pospisil.
He fought like a lion, _and_ he had more sets under his belt .
Well done Vasek, I wish you a bright future.


----------



## Taggart

Another year when the top 4 men's seeds fail to make it through to the semis. Shame really, I was hoping Stan could knock out the joker to make things easier for Murray.


----------



## Vaneyes

Taggart said:


> Another year when the top 4 men's seeds fail to make it through to the semis. Shame really, I was hoping Stan could knock out the joker to make things easier for Murray.


ESPN - Breaking bad: Both Gasquet and Wawrinka managed to create nine break-point opportunities, but Gasquet won one more (on the critical-mass point), for a 5-for-9 success rate.

Joker has a free ride now...another Wimby title. :devil:


----------



## Vaneyes

Pugg said:


> _I do_ like to mention the brave attempt of Vasek Pospisil.
> He fought like a lion, _and_ he had more sets under his belt .
> Well done Vasek, I wish you a bright future.


"Popsicle", a nice guy, as is Raonic. But both need a little more mean. Andy didn't break a sweat, conserving for "F" match.


----------



## Guest

Serena beat Maria, so I only have one thing to say...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kieran

I'm glad Serena won! For a start, I think Maria is a lousy cheat and a bully - so when an even lousier cheat and bigger bully can beat her up, I'm happy! But also, it's kinda riveting watching Serena chase history. Her run in Paris was like watching a summer blockbuster, and now at Wimbo, the had that great emotional tussle with the gorgeous Heather, then she struggled with Azerenka, now she's one match away from holding all four again - and going to NYC to make history. It's great to see. 

I'm kinda looking at Federer and wondering how the bloke is still around, given how much mileage he has. It's kinda unique, but I fancy Murray to tie him to the baseline and wear him down. The young devour the old, and all that. Djoker looks heavy-hearted to me. he's not as spry and hungry-looking as you;d expect. I think Andy might be about to take his second Wimbledon title. It's a great chance for him, anyhow. Marriage has worked wonders for the lad! :tiphat:


----------



## Albert7

I dislike Serena but Maria is awful. Maria needs a better coach and more focus on her playing.

Honestly I am gonna support










Go girl.


----------



## Kieran

^^ Oh dimples. She's gorgeous, isn't she? :kiss:


----------



## Albert7

Men's tennis used to be much better during the late 1980's with the long drawn out battles. I was a kid raised on the days of 36 tie breakers.

Those days are over. Guys just want to smash the ball and get the match over with. For me, that's boring. If the tennis match didn't last as long as Parsifal then I lose interest because it's just a slamfest. The artistry is lost.

Ball placement down the line is something I look for. 52 aces not so much.

Plus, the ladies are more classy. I like the way they try to focus on outwitting each other like foxes. For me, that's meaningful.


----------



## Kieran

Tennis in the 80's was much tougher, alright. Kinda like shark infested waters: Borg, mac, Connors, then Lendl, Wilander, becker, Edberg, Cash. There were distinctive seasons, indoor tennis was flash and swift, clay was heavy-going and dirge-like, grass had the great serve-volleyers. Nowadays, one size fits all, and that helps the top players to rack up these ridiculous records.

Tennis in the nineties was fairly wild too.

I love tennis still, but I don't buy the notion that today's players are any greater than the greats of the past. It's played differently now, and it was played differently then. You have to fit in and play as well as you can in the era you play in. I kinda miss the quicksilver grass, and the serve-volley game...


----------



## Ingélou

Ah, Kieran - I agree that every age is great, and the game different too. You posted just in front of me. 

Answering Albert - I think men's tennis is a bit more interesting now that it's not just the biggest server wins, though. Pete Sampras was awesome, but in his day the matches were more boring in my opinion when there weren't many rallies. 

I've never got used to the grunting that came into the women's game with Monica Seles. It really irritates me!


----------



## Albert7

Ingélou said:


> Ah, Kieran - I agree that every age is great, and the game different too. You posted just in front of me.
> 
> Answering Albert - I think men's tennis is a bit more interesting now that it's not just the biggest server wins, though. Pete Sampras was awesome, but in his day the matches were more boring in my opinion when there weren't many rallies.
> 
> I've never got used to the grunting that came into the women's game with Monica Seles. It really irritates me!


Seles' grunts made her style pretty signature style and unique. She was the Callas of tennis. ugly sound but got the drama done at least LOL.


----------



## Art Rock

Which reminds me...


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Albert7 said:


> Men's tennis used to be much better during the late 1980's with the long drawn out battles. I was a kid raised on the days of 36 tie breakers.
> 
> Those days are over. Guys just want to smash the ball and get the match over with. For me, that's boring. If the tennis match didn't last as long as Parsifal then I lose interest because it's just a slamfest. The artistry is lost.


The matches now are longer than ever. There have been many finals of recent years lasting over 4 hours. The guys are so fit and can get everything back into play.

If anything the tennis of the 70s/80s was faster-paced as the conditions were much more suited for serve/volley tennis which leads to shorter rallies and less "outwitting each other like foxes".

I also enjoy watching women's tennis for the same reasons you do. Agnieszka Radwanska and Francesca Schiavone show what you can do against the big hitters despite having such a diminutive stature.


----------



## Albert7

Proms Fanatic said:


> The matches now are longer than ever. There have been many finals of recent years lasting over 4 hours. The guys are so fit and can get everything back into play.
> 
> If anything the tennis of the 70s/80s was faster-paced as the conditions were much more suited for serve/volley tennis which leads to shorter rallies and less "outwitting each other like foxes".
> 
> I also enjoy watching women's tennis for the same reasons you do. Agnieszka Radwanska and Francesca Schiavone show what you can do against the big hitters despite having such a diminutive stature.


Yeah. Also disappointing is the lack of Asians on the tennis circuit. No Michael Chang.

I guess that the Asian guys all lost interest?


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Albert7 said:


> Yeah. Also disappointing is the lack of Asians on the tennis circuit. No Michael Chang.
> 
> I guess that the Asian guys all lost interest?


Kei Nishikori on the men's side. Li Na and Date-Krumm on the ladies (+ I think another Japanese girl made it to the 3rd round of Wimbledon this year).

Maybe this is the exception proving the rule though.


----------



## Kieran

A Gasquet v Murray final would be a treat to see...


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Federer was absolutely outstanding today. I don't see Djokovic getting in his way if Federer continues to serve as well as he has been doing for the past month.


----------



## Kieran

How can Federer still be fresh as a daisy, aged almost 34? The bloke is defying nature!

I thought Andy was out of his depth today, and where it mattered in the sets, he got pushed around. I don't expect Novak to be pushed around on Sunday, but there's rain forecast, and so it may become an indoor match...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> How can Federer still be fresh as a daisy, aged almost 34? The bloke is defying nature!
> 
> I thought Andy was out of his depth today, and where it mattered in the sets, he got pushed around. I don't expect Novak to be pushed around on Sunday, but there's rain forecast, and so it may become an indoor match...


It's that time of the year brother, that we start cheerleading for Djoker.

I still ain't done repenting from last year. 

btw -- Murray having to beat 2 out of Djoker, Nadal and Fed on the way to a slam is just probably too much for him. Always has been. I think he needs another Slam, otherwise to me he's on a par with the likes of Hewitt, Safin, Roddick ... even Wawrinka. No harm in that, at all.


----------



## Vaneyes

*Nastase* at Wimby '15. He's now a General, or President, or Field Marshall, or Ice Cream Vendor.


----------



## Pugg

Kieran said:


> How can Federer still be fresh as a daisy, aged almost 34? The bloke is defying nature!
> 
> ...


That's taking good care off your body, :tiphat:

I do hope he wins Sunday, he so deserves it.


----------



## Albert7

Looks like my second choice will be my predicted winner for this weekend.


----------



## Ingélou

I can't help hoping Federer wins too - always like it when the 'older person who's been written off' wins! 
At least he doesn't shout at ball girls.


----------



## Pugg

Ingélou said:


> I can't help hoping Federer wins too - always like it when the 'older person who's been written off' wins!
> At least he doesn't shout at ball girls.


Such a distinct gentlemen :tiphat:


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> I love tennis still, but I don't buy the notion that today's players are any greater than the greats of the past. It's played differently now, and it was played differently then. You have to fit in and play as well as you can in the era you play in. I kinda miss the quicksilver grass, and the serve-volley game...


Thank you, man. :tiphat:

I just despise the media narrative of "Federer's the greatest", said uncontested every time. So he's won 3 more slams than Rafa or Sampras -- who cares?

If anyone is going to utter those words, they better have a working knowledge of the *entire history of tennis*, not just the past bloody 10 years. And they better qualify it. Because winning the most of something is meaningless without context. Like, people conveniently ignore that Fed was lucky enough to dominate a 3/4 years stretch (around 03 - 06) and rack up slams (idk, he won probably around 8 in that period) against very, very weak competition (relative to the competition that would come later once Nadal began to establish himself, and what came before during the Pete and Agassi years).

I mean seriously, his first Wimbledon win came against Mark Phillipousis in the final. LMAO.

He has an extremely poor record against his biggest rival, Nadal. He has lost to Nadal in a slam final on every surface. He has only managed to beat Nadal in a slam at Wimbledon, when Nadal was 20 & 21.

Anyway, if he wins tomorrow, yet more of this garbage narrative will get chucked around. And by who? Tim Henman, Sue Barker & John Lloyd? Give me a break. LOL.


----------



## Ingélou

Skilmarilion said:


> Thank you, man. :tiphat:
> 
> I just despise the media narrative of "Federer's the greatest", said uncontested every time. So he's won 3 more slams than Rafa or Sampras -- who cares?
> 
> If anyone is going to utter those words, they better have a working knowledge of the *entire history of tennis*, not just the past bloody 10 years. And they better qualify it. Because winning the most of something is meaningless without context. Like, people conveniently ignore that Fed was lucky enough to dominate a 3/4 years stretch (around 03 - 06) and rack up slams (idk, he won probably around 8 in that period) against very, very weak competition (relative to the competition that would come later once Nadal began to establish himself, and what came before during the Pete and Agassi years).
> 
> I mean seriously, his first Wimbledon win came against Mark Phillipousis in the final. LMAO.
> 
> He has an extremely poor record against his biggest rival, Nadal. He has lost to Nadal in a slam final on every surface. He has only managed to beat Nadal in a slam at Wimbledon, when Nadal was 20 & 21.
> 
> Anyway, if he wins tomorrow, yet more of this garbage narrative will get chucked around. And by who? Tim Henman, Sue Barker & John Lloyd? Give me a break. LOL.


Burst on your banjo! :clap:
It *is* possible to want Federer to win without going through all that stuff, though. 
'One last time' would be nice - that's all I feel, honest, guv.


----------



## Skilmarilion

> Burst on your banjo!


So I Google'd this, because I had no idea what it meant ... and now I long for those times of cluelessness. 



Ingélou said:


> It *is* possible to want Federer to win without going through all that stuff, though.


It is possible of course, yet profoundly frowned upon.


----------



## Ingélou

Skilmarilion said:


> So I Google'd this, because I had no idea what it meant ... and now I long for those times of cluelessness.


 OMG - I googled it too! In my day, it just meant having a rant. That expression has died the death and a whole new world of meaning has become attached to the harmless banjo.

Sorry.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Ingélou said:


> OMG - I googled it too! In my day, it just meant having a rant. That expression has died the death and a whole new world of meaning has become attached to the harmless banjo.
> 
> Sorry.


lol, no worries there.


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Skilmarilion said:


> He has an extremely poor record against his biggest rival, Nadal. He has lost to Nadal in a slam final on every surface. He has only managed to beat Nadal in a slam at Wimbledon, when Nadal was 20 & 21.


This has always also been my objection to those that say that Federer is the greatest of all time. Can you really claim to be the best of all time with such a horrendous record against your biggest rival?



Skilmarilion said:


> Like, people conveniently ignore that Fed was lucky enough to dominate a 3/4 years stretch (around 03 - 06) and rack up slams (idk, he won probably around 8 in that period) against very, very weak competition


I think you're being a bit unfair with the level of competition Federer's had to face; the strength in depth is stronger than it has ever been.

Who would you rank as the greatest of all time?


----------



## Ingélou

Personally, although I found his game boring simply because he *was* so good, I rate Pete Sampras.


----------



## Dr Johnson

MacLeod said:


> Serena beat Maria, so I only have one thing to say...
> 
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I share your pain.

If I have awoken from my post-prandial doze in time I shall watch the Ladies' Final to see if the plucky Spaniard can beat Serena.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Ingélou said:


> Personally, although I found his game boring simply because he *was* so good, I rate Pete Sampras.


Pete was cool.

But really, this guy was cooler.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Proms Fanatic said:


> I think you're being a bit unfair with the level of competition Federer's had to face; the strength in depth is stronger than it has ever been.
> 
> Who would you rank as the greatest of all time?


I was referring to the early years of his dominance, say 2003 - 06. Who was the real competition then? Roddick, Ferrero, Safin, Hewitt. Not very strong at all, in a relative sense. Nadal, Djoker, Murray ... even Del Potro, who he lost in the 09 US Open Final, are just in a different league. Having said that, the only one of the earlier bunch that I always rated highly was Roddick, and who knows how many slams he could have won if not for losing to Federer very late in slams. I'd say at least 5.

An example -- Federer's 'finals' path when he won the 2006 Australian open:

QF: Davydenko
SF: Kiefer
F: Baghdatis

Federer's French Open win was not particularly convincing to me, either, with 09 being the only year between 2005 to 2014 that Nadal didn't make the final. He of course lost in part due to being injured, since he then had to pull out of Wimbledon. This is unlike Nadal's wins in Australia and the US, where he beat Federer or Djokovic in each final.



Proms Fanatic said:


> Who would you rank as the greatest of all time?


I don't particularly care. Part of the problem is I don't understand the infatuation with having to constantly rank players in any sport in historical terms. Federer, Messi, Tendulkar ... all are called the greatest, a lot of the time without much foundation and/or any proper understanding of the whole history of the sport.

I do place Nadal's legacy above Federer's, and that's just my view. Whether Nadal is the greatest or not -- I don't really know, and couldn't care less.


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Skilmarilion said:


> I was referring to the early years of his dominance, say 2003 - 06. Who was the real competition then? Roddick, Ferrero, Safin, Hewitt. Not very strong at all, in a relative sense.


You could argue that Federer forced everybody else to raise their games and he set a standard for the younger players to reach.

Part of Federer's greatness is his consistency. He reached 23(!!) consecutive Grand Slam semi-finals. The next highest number is 10.

BTW Federer has a plus record against everyone except Nadal.



Skilmarilion said:


> Federer's French Open win was not particularly convincing to me, either, with 09 being the only year between 2005 to 2014 that Nadal didn't make the final. He of course lost in part due to being injured, since he then had to pull out of Wimbledon. This is unlike Nadal's wins in Australia and the US, where he beat Federer or Djokovic in each final.


You can only beat what's put in front of you! The fact that he's done it more times than anyone else surely has to be a significant factor when assessing how good he has been.



Skilmarilion said:


> I do place Nadal's legacy above Federer's, and that's just my view. Whether Nadal is the greatest or not -- I don't really know, and couldn't care less.


Federer's had more success on a wider variety of surfaces than Nadal. Furthermore it's looking like Federer's going to have a longer period of playing at the highest level.

FWIW I'm only 27 years old and I've only ever seen players from Sampras onwards - I can't really compare Federer to the older guys with any confidence.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Proms Fanatic said:


> You could argue that Federer forced everybody else to raise their games and he set a standard for the younger players to reach.


Well you could but it's not a particularly important point. The stretch of about 2003 - 06 was objectively a substandard era in Men's tennis. Juan Carlos Ferrero was world #1 in 2003. That says it all.



> The fact that he's done it more times than anyone else surely has to be a significant factor when assessing how good he has been.


I don't agree. "More times" is only significant if the conditions are held constant. His 17 vs Nadal's 14 were won in very different circumstances. For me, Nadal faced far greater challenges en route to winning his slam titles than Federer. We also don't consider the number of slams that Nadal either missed entirely or pulled out of due to injury. Federer has not missed a single event, by my reckoning. Nadal has a far higher conversion rate because of this,



> Federer's had more success on a wider variety of surfaces than Nadal. Furthermore it's looking like Federer's going to have a longer period of playing at the highest level.


Well Nadal has won multiple slams on each surface. Federer hasn't. How do you define "more success"? Nadal made 5 Wimbledon finals, which early on in his career, you could never have predicted. He won Olympic Gold on Hard court in Beijing. Federer never won a Gold, despite all Olympics in his career being on either Hard/Grass. Nadal, on his way to winning the most Masters 1000 ever, has also won plenty of the Masters on Hard, incl. Indian Wells and Rogers Cup multiple times.

For the record, Nadal has beaten either Federer or Djokovic en route in 12 of the 14 Slams that he's won.

Djokovic has beaten either Nadal or Federer en route in 6 of the 8 slams he's won.

Federer has beaten Nadal or Djokovic en route in only 6 of the 17 slams he's won (and in 5 of those 6, Nadal or Djokovic were 21 or younger).

For Murray, it's 2 out of 2, beating Djokovic in each final of his major wins.

So in % terms:

Murray: 100%
Nadal: 86%
Djokovic: 75%
Federer: 35%

So maybe Murray's the greatest.


----------



## Ingélou

Skilmarilion said:


> ...
> So maybe Murray's the greatest.


:lol: Just shows how stats don't prove anything. 
Interesting discussion. Go it, guys! :tiphat: :tiphat:


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Skilmarilion said:


> We also don't consider the number of slams that Nadal either missed entirely or pulled out of due to injury. Federer has not missed a single event, by my reckoning.


I see this as a plus point for Federer, not Nadal. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point!



Skilmarilion said:


> Well Nadal has won multiple slams on each surface. Federer hasn't. How do you define "more success"?


Nadal has owned the clay courts and the French Open. Nobody else has had a chance because Nadal has been outstanding on that surface - his achievements will not be surpassed for a long time. 9/14 of Nadal's Grand Slams have been at the French.

Federer's favoured surface is grass. He's won 7/18 on there and 11 elsewhere.

I'll accept your points about Nadal's prowess on hard courts - they're probably of a similar ability on this surface.



Skilmarilion said:


> For the record, Nadal has beaten either Federer or Djokovic en route in 12 of the 14 Slams that he's won.
> 
> Djokovic has beaten either Nadal or Federer en route in 6 of the 8 slams he's won.
> 
> Federer has beaten Nadal or Djokovic en route in only 6 of the 17 slams he's won (and in 5 of those 6, Nadal or Djokovic were 21 or younger).
> 
> For Murray, it's 2 out of 2, beating Djokovic in each final of his major wins.


Great research!

However I feel that this harks back to one of the points I made in my previous posts. Federer has been so incredibly consistent over a long period of time. Federer hasn't beaten the top guys in finals as much because they've been knocked out or they've been injured, while Federer is always there or thereabouts.


----------



## Taggart

Question now is can Serena do the calender Grand Slam? This would be the first this century - Graf did it in 1988,which would also put her equal with Graf on 5 consecutive titles. Then can she beat Mo Connolly's record of 6 consecutive titles?


----------



## Dr Johnson

All good luck to Serena but I enjoyed watching the plucky Spaniard give her a run for her money.


----------



## Kieran

Taggart said:


> Question now is can Serena do the calender Grand Slam? This would be the first this century - Graf did it in 1988,which would also put her equal with Graf on 5 consecutive titles. Then can she beat Mo Connolly's record of 6 consecutive titles?


Don't forget Martina! She won six in a row between 1983 and 1984. Somehow, Helena Sukova dumped her out in Oz when she was chasing the Grand Slam. Goes to show, upsets can happen, but at the moment, Serena is incredible...


----------



## Kieran

I think that in the Fedal argument, this is one that'll run and run, but certainly I believe that Rafa's total has definitely been affected by injuries and the cycles of withdrawal, recovery, return - especially over the last few years - and Federer has benefited from this. He's beaten Rafa only twice at the slams, and these before Rafa came of age, tennis-wise. Plus, Rafa has two slams on each surface, whereas Roger has only one on clay. I'm still smarting after that Oz fiasco last year when Rafa's back broke or caved in or whatever, during the final with Stan.

Fed has definitely arguments on his side too: record number of Wimbos and US Opens (shared), 4 Oz, all them unbroken runs to the semis and quarters. remarkable physical attributes, given that other similar high-enders in the sport had been showing drastic effects of wear and tear much younger, like Rafa is. I was literally stunned into believing the BBC were showing highlights of Federer circa 2006 during the Murray match - was it raining, I wondered - the old geezer was so dainty and sprightly on his toes.

I reckon that when they're long gone, their names will be tied together, in appreciation, in argument, in their incredible achievements and the classic matches between them. Kinda like Borg and Mac, but multiplied...


----------



## Proms Fanatic

An excellent article on the BBC about how great Serena really is:

Wimbledon 2015: Serena Williams should be cherished like Federer


----------



## Taggart

Kieran said:


> Don't forget Martina! She won six in a row between 1983 and 1984. Somehow, Helena Sukova dumped her out in Oz when she was chasing the Grand Slam. Goes to show, upsets can happen, but at the moment, Serena is incredible...


Not forgetting the all time great Margaret Court who also has 6 - 1969 US Open to the 1971 Australian Open - probably before your time.


----------



## Kieran

Yeah, Margaret doesn't get her dues in these conversations. It's almost as if tennis started with colour TV. All the old greats get put downs instead of plaudits for their greatness...


----------



## Taggart

Kieran said:


> Yeah, Margaret doesn't get her dues in these conversations. It's almost as if tennis started with colour TV. All the old greats get put downs instead of plaudits for their greatness...


Laver usually gets a mention and a camera check.


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Kieran said:


> Yeah, Margaret doesn't get her dues in these conversations. It's almost as if tennis started with colour TV. All the old greats get put downs instead of plaudits for their greatness...


I find it very difficult to comment on people who I never saw play. My tennis viewing started at the back end of Graf followed by the period of many champions until the Williams sisters have been dominating since.


----------



## Vaneyes

"In the matches against him, I went through a lot of different emotions and things that allowed me to understand what I need to do to become a better player and to win against him and win Grand Slam trophies. He's the greatest ever."

- Joker

May I have a big piece of that humble pie, please?


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> Fed has definitely arguments on his side too: record number of Wimbos and US Opens (shared), 4 Oz, all them unbroken runs to the semis and quarters. remarkable physical attributes, given that other similar high-enders in the sport had been showing drastic effects of wear and tear much younger, like Rafa is. I was literally stunned into believing the BBC were showing highlights of Federer circa 2006 during the Murray match - was it raining, I wondered - the old geezer was so dainty and sprightly on his toes.
> 
> I reckon that when they're long gone, their names will be tied together, in appreciation, in argument, in their incredible achievements and the classic matches between them. Kinda like Borg and Mac, but multiplied...


I know this is becoming a long-winded ordeal now, given that it's not like Federer's playing Nadal tomorrow. :lol:

I will just say a couple of general things re: what you said here:

i) I don't fully subscribe to the "Fed has had amazing body conditioning, physical attributes, endurance, etc. to be where he is now" notion. My view point is, Fed wasn't pushed physically enough, for someone who won so many slams, early in his career. The first time he began to play out those mammoth 4 hour finals came against Nadal at Wimbledon.

This is unlike Nadal who had to slug away, pound himself in epic 5-setters from an early age, to try and win slams. He did not have the benefit of racing to Slams by knocking off the likes of Phillipousis, Hewitt, Gonzalez, Baghdatis, etc. to become champion. The mammoth matches that Nadal participated in then went to *another * level when Djoker rose to prominence big time in 2011. At age 25 he played that ridiculous Australia final in 2012 that was bloody 6 hours.

The reason Fed still looks like a spring chicken at age 34 has as much to do with *circumstances* as it does with any kind of physical attributes or conditioning.

ii) when it's all said and done for the boys we've been discussing, I doubt it will be as simple as a Nadal vs Fed debate. No. That debate will not be had with a certain Serbian's name being mentioned as well. And with great seriousness.


----------



## Proms Fanatic

Skilmarilion said:


> The reason Fed still looks like a spring chicken at age 34 has as much to do with *circumstances* as it does with any kind of physical attributes or conditioning.


I agree/can understand most of what you said but I don't think this statement is accurate.

Federer's style of play is more predicated on keeping the points short, his serve has always been an extremely potent weapon combined with a fair bit of serve/volley, chip/charge and standing up on the baseline taking the ball early. Furthermore his service motion is very simple.

Nadal purposely looks to play long points from deep behind the baseline and his heavy top-spin forehand is a very violent stroke which I'm guessing puts a lot of stress on his body. Also the fact that he's playing with his wrong hand might increase the risk of injuries?

Nadal's injuries and Federer's health could also just be luck of course.

It will be very interesting to see where Djoko ends up.


----------



## Vaneyes

"F" must've found what The Beast is using.


----------



## Albert7

One of the worst female tennis finals ever. My gal lost badly.

Anyways I think that I will skip the men's finals. I did better when my World Cup soccer team won last year.


----------



## Skilmarilion

Proms Fanatic said:


> Federer's style of play is more predicated on keeping the points short, his serve has always been an extremely potent weapon combined with a fair bit of serve/volley, chip/charge and standing up on the baseline taking the ball early. Furthermore his service motion is very simple.
> 
> Nadal purposely looks to play long points from deep behind the baseline and his heavy top-spin forehand is a very violent stroke which I'm guessing puts a lot of stress on his body.


Can't argue with this one. 

So ...

Vamos Nole.


----------



## Kieran

It's a bit of a tussle, eh? Tense. A break of serve each. Impressed by Djokers reply to being broken. Enjoying Roddick in the commentary...


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> It's a bit of a tussle, eh? Tense. A break of serve each. Impressed by Djokers reply to being broken. Enjoying Roddick in the commentary...


Roddick? Excellent.
Henman? Not so much.


----------



## Albert7

go Djo Djo Djo...

This match is making up for my terrible yesterday with the ladies.

And I don't want my experience with the guys to be like one of those never-ending bad dates that cause a lemming to become sushi sandwiches.


----------



## Kieran

Djoker choked that second set, right? Should be looking forward to the trophy presentation, instead he has a bit of work to do...


----------



## Kieran

Skilmarilion said:


> I know this is becoming a long-winded ordeal now, given that it's not like Federer's playing Nadal tomorrow. :lol:
> 
> I will just say a couple of general things re: what you said here:
> 
> i) I don't fully subscribe to the "Fed has had amazing body conditioning, physical attributes, endurance, etc. to be where he is now" notion. My view point is, Fed wasn't pushed physically enough, for someone who won so many slams, early in his career. The first time he began to play out those mammoth 4 hour finals came against Nadal at Wimbledon.
> 
> This is unlike Nadal who had to slug away, pound himself in epic 5-setters from an early age, to try and win slams. He did not have the benefit of racing to Slams by knocking off the likes of Phillipousis, Hewitt, Gonzalez, Baghdatis, etc. to become champion. The mammoth matches that Nadal participated in then went to *another * level when Djoker rose to prominence big time in 2011. At age 25 he played that ridiculous Australia final in 2012 that was bloody 6 hours.
> 
> The reason Fed still looks like a spring chicken at age 34 has as much to do with *circumstances* as it does with any kind of physical attributes or conditioning.
> 
> ii) when it's all said and done for the boys we've been discussing, I doubt it will be as simple as a Nadal vs Fed debate. No. That debate will not be had with a certain Serbian's name being mentioned as well. And with great seriousness.


I agree with that, about Federer, but I also think the bloke is unnatural, you know what I mean? He should be showing severe signs of wear and tear by now, and he seems exempt. He's light and flighty, great reflexes, speed. Whatever he has for breakfast works for him. 

Looking at Novak, I think he's destined to be the third wheel to the other two. Like Rafa, he's had to negotiate his way through all-time greats to win his slams, as opposed to the comparatively easy road Roger had while Rafa was growing up. But we see it today, Novak can be more fragile than Fedal when it comes to crushing his foe. He's miles ahead of the rest but he's often shown to be mentally a lot more fragile than them blokes...


----------



## Albert7

Rain delay in third set... This is good because I want our five set fullness. Please give us 40 tie breakers in the final set.


----------



## Albert7

Kieran said:


> I agree with that, about Federer, but I also think the bloke is unnatural, you know what I mean? He should be showing severe signs of wear and tear by now, and he seems exempt. He's light and flighty, great reflexes, speed. Whatever he has for breakfast works for him.
> 
> Looking at Novak, I think he's destined to be the third wheel to the other two. Like Rafa, he's had to negotiate his way through all-time greats to win his slams, as opposed to the comparatively easy road Roger had while Rafa was growing up. But we see it today, Novak can be more fragile than Fedal when it comes to crushing his foe. He's miles ahead of the rest but he's often shown to be mentally a lot more fragile than them blokes...


The secret to Federer is as ArtMusic puts it pure and simple.










Honestly with a wife like that poirquoi pas ne jeue la jeux parce que?
I can promise that breakfast isn't the secret here. I ate a bunch of eggs awhile back but that did not motivate me to play like Federer. Unless it is the breakfast d'amour.

Behind every great tennis player is a woman (or man).


----------



## Kieran

I love Mirka, she suffers through everything. Kinda feel for her even though I dislike Wodger...


----------



## Albert7

Albert7 said:


> The secret to Federer is as ArtMusic puts it pure and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly with a wife like that poirquoi pas ne jeue la jeux parce que?
> I can promise that breakfast isn't the secret here. I ate a bunch of eggs awhile back but that did not motivate me to play like Federer. Unless it is the breakfast d'amour.
> 
> Behind every great tennis player is a woman (or man).


http://www.sportsgrid.com/uncategorized/why-sex-before-a-tennis-match-might-just-be-necessary/
Scientific proof that more footwork off the court is helpful. Or footsies.


----------



## Taggart

A triumph for the _wrong _oldie. Djokovic is the oldest player to win nine majors in the Open era. (at 28!)

And they've got to close the roof for the presentation!

Still, it was a good match.


----------



## Albert7

Beautiful and legendary finish and rally. D man is the Corelli of tennis.

Okay a beer tonight for this and making up for my fiasco yesterday.


----------



## Skilmarilion

*BOOM!*

And now, back to Rafa's side we return. :tiphat:


----------



## Skilmarilion

Kieran said:


> *Looking at Novak, I think he's destined to be the third wheel to the other two.* Like Rafa, he's had to negotiate his way through all-time greats to win his slams, as opposed to the comparatively easy road Roger had while Rafa was growing up. But we see it today, Novak can be more fragile than Fedal when it comes to crushing his foe. He's miles ahead of the rest but he's often shown to be mentally a lot more fragile than them blokes...


What he has left to do:

- Win the French
- Win the Olympics next year
- Surpass Nadal's record of most Masters 1000 titles (Djoker has 24, Nadal has 27 ... Fed has 23)

I'd be amazed if he doesn't achieve the third. I'd also be quite surprised if he misses out on the first two (although Olympics is a bit unpredictable). And naturally he will add to the 9 slams he has now.

I don't think there's any chance he doesn't end up with a legacy on par with Raf and Rog.


----------



## Vaneyes




----------



## Pyotr

Shame he didn't win the French. We'd be looking at a Grand Slam attempt, the Holy Grail, at the US Open.


----------



## Taggart

The only man to do this in the Open era (he also did it before as well) was an Australian - Rod Laver. This was back in the days when Australia was too far to travel for most players.

Interestingly, around the same time, another Australian - Margaret Court did the women's grand slam. She had done the Grand Slam in mixed doubles in 1963 and 1965. Along with Navratilova, she has won every major Grand Slam title - singles, doubles and mixed doubles.

Why can't we have more all round men's players?


----------



## Kieran

I think the game's too tough for the men to commit to doubles. It's a shame, really, because a lot of great in the past, such as Edberg and McEnroe, were also great doubles players. Nowadays, maybe because it's all more or less played from the baseline in singles, playing doubles would be too much of an addition to their schedule, although often we see Rafa play doubles in smaller events, just to tune up...


----------



## Pugg

Taggart said:


> The only man to do this in the Open era (he also did it before as well) was an Australian - Rod Laver. This was back in the days when Australia was too far to travel for most players.
> 
> Interestingly, around the same time, another Australian - Margaret Court did the women's grand slam. She had done the Grand Slam in mixed doubles in 1963 and 1965. Along with Navratilova, she has won every major Grand Slam title - singles, doubles and mixed doubles.
> 
> Why can't we have more all round men's players?


Vasek Pospisil has a lot of potential, good and cool head on his shoulders.
Shame he had to do five setters before the Murray match


----------

