# Prokofiev



## Rachman

I was just wondering what you guys think about Sergey Prokofiev's compositions?

I recently started listening to his works, and I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to think about him.


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## vonK

Prokofiev made some *very* good music. Just go on listening to it then I'm sure you'll start to love it! Have you heard his 5th symphony? Karajan made a great recording of it (DGG).

vonK


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## Edward Elgar

Prokofiev's masterpiece has to be Romeo and Juliet. Not just the famous bit! The whole opus is continuously good in orchestration and tunes.


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## riverbank

I've always been a fan of Prokofiev. Certainly at his best, he is great. And I like Romeo and Juliet aswell. Not all of his music does it for me, for example I don't think any of his 5 piano concertos are that great, but generally speaking he gets thumbs up from me.


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## Lark Ascending

I have only one Prokofiev CD of familliar works - Peter and the Wolf, Symphony No 1 (Classical), Lieutenant Kije Suite and The Love of Three Oranges Suite. I haven't heard anything of his other than Romeo and Juliet ( I have to admit I prefer the music of his contemporary, Shostakovich).


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## Topaz

I have some Prokofiev which I bought mainly to fill a gap in my collection, not particularly because I greatly liked it. I have S1, S5, Piano Con 3, Lieutenant Kije, and Romeo & Juliet excepts. It's not really possible to dislike these works. S1 is very nice but a bit short. Lieutentant is exquisite. The piano con is quite good actually. That was the last piece I bought, the Martha Argerich version whom I like. I would say I like Prokofiev more than Shostakovich, but that's not saying much. I need to give Prokofiev a better chance, and will do so now that I'm reminded. 


Topaz


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## Saturnus

The compositions I have heard by Prokifiev are all good. I favour his fifth symphony. I have heard few of his compositions; only Peter and the Wolf, Piano Sonata no. 3, Symphs 1,5,6 and the Russian Overture (and this thread reminded me of my gramophone-record of Romeo and Juliet I always forget to check out).


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## JfW

I find that Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet to be the best work of that theme. Kije is likewise a great work. Prokofiev is one of my favorite composers, though I find Peter and the Wolf annoying. Do they make a STFU version where they just play the music? i just can't listen to the spoken portion after hearing it a few dozen times...


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## robert newman

I really like Prokofiev. The more I listen the more I like him. Again, I agree with Topaz. 

There are a string of other great works by him that are rarely heard, even today. One in particular I love. Its title will sound bland for sure - 'Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution', Op.74. I heard it first on one of those BBC discs that we used to be able to buy with a BBC classical music magazine. It was phenomenal - and a live recording made in London. I managed to lose it shortly afterwards - gnash !!!!!! Wow - must get it again somehow. The scoring alone should fascinate you - for 2 choruses, accordions & orchestra.


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## Rachman

Listened to some of his stuff. Pretty good! Especially his Sonatas and Romeo and Juliet.


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## johnnyx

I adore Prokofiev's music. I am especially fond of his violin sonatas and ballets. In fact, I am listenting to The Tale of the Stone Flower (Rozhdestvensky/Bolshoi Theater O.) as I write this.
x


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## robert newman

Hi Johnnyx

What did you think of The Tale of the Stone Flower by Prokofiev ? I am gettting really interested in Prokofiev these days. His work is wonderful. 

Somebody said they don't rate his piano concertos very highly. Wonder if they have ever really listened to gems such as the Prolofiev 3rd concerto ? I heard it over the weekend in a live performance by Martha Argerich. Wow - it was great !!!


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## johnnyx

Robert Nuewman
Hi. I enjoy all of Prokofiev's music, but seem especially fond of the ballets. Stone Flower, while not as good IMHO as Romeo & Juliet or Cinderella, is still a very nice piece of music. These works to me evoke an imaginary land of childlike memories, as do, for example, Tchaikovsky's ballets. This is no doubt due to the fact that my sister was a ballerina and ballet teacher, and I heard this music often in my house growing up. 

His cello music is very enjoyable as well. I am not as familar with the piano music, but will have to check it out. Lucky you to hear Argerich perform!
x


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## orquesta tipica

My favorite Prokofiev work is his 1st symphony. Everytime I listen to it, it never loses that freshness, that rush of inspiration.

My love for the "classical symphony" is followed closely by my love for his 5th and 6th symphonies, and I like his 7th, too. I suppose I'm partial towards his symphonies over his ballet scores. But of his ballet scores, no one has yet mentioned The Prodigal Son, which is very lyrical and moody. Also his Cinderella ballet score is very nice. 

I love how atmospheric Prokofiev's music is, how under-the-surface it lies in my consciousness. Prokofiev seems to be the introvert and Shostakovich the extrovert.

I also have his opera War and Peace on disc, but I haven't delved into it yet. The overture is beautiful enough, though.

One aspect of Prokofiev's music that I like is how he brings out the percussive qualities of the piano, and in his compositions overall. It struck me while listening to the 5th and comparing it to symphonies by other composers.


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## robert newman

Thanks Johnnyx and also Orquesta Typica, 

I would love to hear all the Prokofiev symphonies but at the moment know only that gem, the 'Classical Symphony', his 1st. 

Great to hear that there are many treasures with his cello music too. And with his stage music. Can't wait for someone here on this forum to hear, for the first time, Prokofiev's 3rd Piano Concerto - whether they love it or not. It's sure to provoke some sort of reaction. It left me truly amazed. Something wonderful !


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## johnnyx

"Prokofiev seems to be the introvert and Shostakovich the extrovert." - orquesta tipica
Yes!


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## ChamberNut

Looking for some recommendations on a good recording for Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet, Suites 1 & 2.

Merci a tous!


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## Guest

ChamberNut,

I'd recommend that you buy the entire ballet. Why settle for snippets? The whole piece is so extravagantly beautiful. And there are several good recordings. Kitayenko, Gergiev, Ozawa, Previn, Maazel, Mogrelia. I grew up on Leinsdorf's recording of excerpts, and Maazel's was the first recording I had of the complete ballet. It's very fine, but I probably listen to Previn or Gergiev most often nowadays. The Mogrelia is surprisingly good--real scrappy, though--and has the additional advantage of being on Naxos.

Otherwise, I was surprised to see Prokofiev described in this thread as the introvert and Shostakovich as the extrovert as that's the opposite of what most commentators have said. I would say that both views are wrong as too limiting. Both of those composers were great composers, so they both cover a wide range of musical meaning. Prokofiev covered the wider range, I'd say, but almost all my Russian friends prefer Shostakovich. Prokofiev's too "cool" and "acerbic" for their tastes, I suppose, though he's so much more than those two words imply.

As for the piano concertos, they're all great, except for maybe the first one, which is often kind of silly. But it's such an engaging silliness, it's difficult not to love it. The fifth is the least well liked, for some reason. It's practically the most perfect thing Prokofiev wrote, that and the Quintet and the eighth piano sonata. Which is saying a lot, as the quality of Prokofiev's music is pretty uniformly high. It's not immediately engaging, a lot of it, which is why only a few works seem to be well-known. Give it time, and you'll see how rich and various it all is.

And don't forget those operas, either. Eight of them, and at least four of those among the finest operas ever. At least. (_Love for Three Oranges, Semyon Kotko, Betrothal in a Monastery,_ and _War and Peace._ Which is not to say that _Maddelena_ and _The Gambler_ and _The Fiery Angel_ aren't well worth a listen. I don't know about _The Story of a Real Man,_ yet, as the only recording is of a truncated version of the truncated version. Yes, you read right.)


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## Frasier

some guy said:


> ChamberNut,
> 
> I'd recommend that you buy the entire ballet. Why settle for snippets? The whole piece is so extravagantly beautiful.


In fact even better a DVD of the ballet. Several are available but for the real classic it's Margot Fonteyn and Nureyev. Unfortunately the sound is less than perfect so it would attract a ballet rather than music fan. The Bolshoi have done a more recent one with Natalya Bessmertnova and Irek Mukhamedov.



> Otherwise, I was surprised to see Prokofiev described in this thread as the introvert and Shostakovich as the extrovert as that's the opposite of what most commentators have said.


yes, I couldn't understand that statement either. Shostakovich was the introvert of the two.

EF


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## Manuel

some guy said:


> As for the piano concertos, they're all great, except for maybe the first one, which is often kind of silly. But it's such an engaging silliness, it's difficult not to love it.


True. Visit the Broadcast corner thread, you can download a fantastic video for free.


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## alan sheffield

One of the greatest 20th Century composers. Hardly wrote a "dud" melody. Yes he is inconsistent but the "colour" of his music and the driving rhythms are what makes his music special. My recommendations are:

1st and 3rd Piano Concertos (the 3rd was my own intro to 20th century music)
3rd symphony 
6th Symphony
2nd String Quartet
both Vioin concertos
3rd and 7th Piano sonatas


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## barkingbartok

I really love his choral music. So much of his instrumental music sounds too similar to stereotypical modernist compositions, but his choral music has a fire about it that works really well with his style.


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## Guest

barkingbartok said:


> stereotypical modernist compositions


Say _what?_

(You'd didn't really think you'd be allowed to get away with saying that unremarked, did you? Besides, it's 2007.

Two thousand seven. So many compositions have been written since then... And even were it still 1952, there had been so many compositions up to then, so many different styles. I mean, be fair, that's what the 20th century was all about, pluralism.)


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## Manuel

some guy said:


> Say _what?_
> 
> (You'd didn't really think you'd be allowed to get away with saying that unremarked, did you? Besides, it's 2007.
> Two thousand seven. So many compositions have been written since then... And even were it still 1952, there had been so many compositions up to then, _so many different styles_. I mean, be fair, that's what the 20th century was all about, pluralism.)


I agree. I went to bed yesterday having an "electronics+percussion" private feast through Kaija Saariaho's _Gardens_. Not a single melody in there.


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## pasoleati

My Prokofiev favourites are
-Ivan the Terrible
-War and Peace
-Alexander Nevsky
-Cantata for the 20trh Anniversary of the October Revolution
-On Guard for Peace


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## Tapkaara

I greatly enjoy Prokofiev though I don't go nuts for all of his music.

Yes, the 5th Symphony is great, as is the 3rd Piano Concerto. My favorite work by this composer is the massive cantata Alexander Nevsky. It's Prokofiev at his most accessible.

Romeo and Juliet is also great. His Scythian Suite is often regarded as a rip-off of the Rite of Spring...and maybe this is tru to an extent...but it's also a very fun work.

Lt. Kije is Prokofiev-light, but completely engaging from beginning to end.


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## Air

Prokofiev's 3rd (Played by Martha Argerich) is the only REAL concerto on the planet.


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## Moldyoldie

Prokofiev can be experienced as both a Late Romanticist and as a 20th century Modernist and Neoclassicist -- take your pick! 

Of the many of his works in which I indulge, my single personal favorite is _Piano Concerto No. 2_.


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## jhar26

some guy said:


> And don't forget those operas, either. Eight of them, and at least four of those among the finest operas ever. At least. (_Love for Three Oranges, Semyon Kotko, Betrothal in a Monastery,_ and _War and Peace._ Which is not to say that _Maddelena_ and _The Gambler_ and _The Fiery Angel_ aren't well worth a listen. I don't know about _The Story of a Real Man,_ yet, as the only recording is of a truncated version of the truncated version. Yes, you read right.)


What would you recommend as a first buy among his operas? Which one is the most accessible?


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## Guest

I've lived with all these operas for so long now, that I have no idea which would be considered most accessible. And accessible to one person might be inaccessible to another, after all!

So how about a brief word about each for you? (I wouldn't do this for just anyone, you know!)

_Maddelena_: Early work. Sounds a bit like _Love for Three Oranges_ in parts. It's very charming, but it didn't charm me right at first. (Come to think of it, very little Prokofiev ever charmed me at first. Some horrible glitch in my brain, I'm sure.)

_The Gambler_: Probably the least liked of his well-known operas. It's maybe a bit rough, a bit uneven. He's trying out new things in it, though. And that's always interesting. Maybe save this one for later.

_Love for Three Oranges_: This one is wild and unrestrained. It's the _Le Grand Macabre_ of the early part of the century. Good, clean fun throughout. Plus there are a couple of excerpts from this that everyone has heard over and over again.

_The Fiery Angel_: Also maybe one to leave to the side for awhile. It's not ebullient or charming, but serious and obsessive and dark. Fiery dark. If you know the third symphony, you've already heard a lot of the music of this opera. I didn't find that that helped much, though. That might simply be because this was the first Prokofiev opera I bought (in an undistinguished performance and long before I was listening to any operas much).

_Semyon Kotko_: One of Prokofiev's finest works, I'd say. It's quite a powerful, passionate work. Don't be put off by the "Soviet" story line. The story is really about the people and their human responses to the events. But even if it weren't, the music is so glorious that the plot matters not one whit.

_Betrothal in a Monastery_: From just a year or two after _Semyon Kotko,_ this one's another comedy. Not as extravagent a set up as for _Love for Three Oranges,_ but scrumptious music throughout. I'd be tempted to call this one the most accessible.

_War and Peace_: This is a big, sprawling, wildly beautiful work. It's late enough in his career to be rather milder music, but it's still great stuff. If you can like the seventh symphony and _Stone Flower,_ you won't have any trouble liking this one, either. And it's much much better than either of those two.

_Story of a Real Man_: Still waiting for a complete version of this to be recorded. By Gergiev. Not likely, as it's blatantly Soviet and quite late so quite um well decadent/melodic/lush. Still, it is Prokofiev, and even bad Prokofiev is pretty good.

So there you are. You're on your own now, at least as far as I'm concerned. There may be other views of these from other people. Not likely, as people don't seem to listen to the operas much. A great pity, I think. Prokofiev's operas have some of his finest music.


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## jhar26

Thanks for the very informative post. I think I'll try Love for Three Oranges first sincce you say it has bits that everyone is familiar with.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Prokofiev: his best...*

His best are HIS operas!!!!!!!

Start by th efairy angel (not the gambler, it's kind of experimental)
Love for three oranges! wonderful!
Marriage in a monastery!
Simeon Kotko
WAR AND PEACE...his very best!!!!!
and many others.

These guys here speaking about Romeo and Julliete make me laugh...

Martin Pitchon


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## Huilunsoittaja

Prokofiev is officially my drug---err.... music of choice. He's completely stolen my heart and mind. Especially his PIANO MUSIC!! <3


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## myaskovsky2002

*His piano music...*

IS AWESOME!!!!!!!

so are his operas.

Amen

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002

*Semyon Kotko*

Semyon Kotko: One of Prokofiev's finest works, I'd say. It's quite a powerful, passionate work. Don't be put off by the "Soviet" story line. The story is really about the people and their human responses to the events. But even if it weren't, the music is so glorious that the plot matters not one whit.

===================================================
I don't think is one of the best...it is too commmunist for my taste and the music has a lot of repetion...tghe scene with his mother is kind of too long. The story of a real man is better (even being very communist too)

Martin Pitchon


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## superhorn

Prokofiev is certainly one of the greatest 20th century composers.His music has enormous range and variety. It can be grindingly dissonant or tenderly lyrical, full of humor, sarcastic or droll, or tragic. It can be simple or extremely complex. It contains all human emotions. 
It's Prokofiev who is the extroverted one,and Shostakovich who is the introverted one,not the other way around. Shostakovich is also a great composer,but vastly different. The two are apples and oranges. In genera lthough ,Prokofiev's music is positive and life-affirming.
Prokofiev wrote masterpieces in virtually every form;ballets,operas, symphonies,concertos,miscellaneous orchestral works,
choral works, chamber music, paino works etc.
Some of his most interesting works are not performed too often,but have been recorded.
The oratorio Ivan the Terrible,based on the music for the unfinished Eisenstein film,is a work of great sweep and incredibly vivid colors,and features two vocal soloists and a narrator.
I agree that the Stone Flower ballet is a wonderful work, and got to know it long ago during the LP era from the Rozhdestvensky/Bolshoi recording. I also recommend the much more recent Chandos version with Gianandrea Noseda and the BBC Philharmonic(not to be confused with the BBC symphony, which is based in London;the BBC Phil. is based in Manchester).
The classical and 5th symphony are staples of the orchestral repertoire, but the other five are very underrated in my opinion. The 4th,based on the ballet "The Prodigal Son", particualrly so. I prefer the longer 2nd version,though others prefer the original. Both are very much worth hearing.


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## superhorn

I forgot to mention the "Cantata on the 20th annoiversary of the Russian Revolution", for an enormous orchestra and chorus plus brass bands etc. Despite the awful, agit-prop Soviet propaganda text, a fasinating work. It's on a Chandos recording which I have conducted by Neeme Jarvi. It's extremely loud and brash but very exciting.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Piano concertos...*

I am an addict to his 2nd piano concerto.

Martin Pitchon


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## Huilunsoittaja

*Wicked*






Sounds like a chase scene doesn't it? I wonder if Prokofiev was able to escape his nemesis, you decide...


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## teccomin

Prokofiev is the master of repetition.


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## myaskovsky2002

*Repetition or recycling?*

I think he recycles his works...The march for the 3 oranges is used again and again...His Evgeny Onieguin and Queen of spades (please do not think about Tchaikovsky) are not good, plenty of recycling...The KING of repetion is Aram Kahachaturian..or Aram Khacharepeturian....LOL

Martin


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## jhar26

myaskovsky2002 said:


> His best are HIS operas!!!!!!!
> 
> Start by th efairy angel (not the gambler, it's kind of experimental)
> Love for three oranges! wonderful!
> Marriage in a monastery!
> Simeon Kotko
> WAR AND PEACE...his very best!!!!!
> and many others.
> 
> These guys here speaking about Romeo and Julliete make me laugh...
> 
> Martin Pitchon


I have since my previous post in this thread (which is over two years old) added DVD's of Betrothal in a Mosastery, The Fiery Angel and The Love for Three Oranges to my collection and I like all of them.....and yes - also the ballet Romeo and Juliette which I love also. I also have as of now not yet seen DVD's of War and Peace and the ballet Cinderella.


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## myaskovsky2002

*War and peace*

You have many versions of this DVD....as always, Gergiev is BAD! If you already have it...well...If not buy the French one!

http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Ber...ef=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1291239189&sr=1-4

It is the best! less complete than the Gergiev...but who cares! Just the Overture missing.

Martin Pitchon


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## jhar26

myaskovsky2002 said:


> You have many versions of this DVD....
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Ber...ef=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1291239189&sr=1-4
> 
> Martin Pitchon


That's the one I have.


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## myaskovsky2002

*War and Peace DVD*

Originally Posted by myaskovsky2002 
You have many versions of this DVD....

http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-Bert...1239189&sr=1-4

Martin Pitchon

That's the one I have. 
======================================
I have the two of them...The Gergiev's is so ....bad....

Good for you!!!!! ochien kharasho!


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## myaskovsky2002

Huilunsoittaja I suppose loves his flute sonata...beautiful indeed.

Martin


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## Huilunsoittaja

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Huilunsoittaja I suppose loves his flute sonata...beautiful indeed.
> 
> Martin


Yes, I can play it too! I've played the Finale at 2 adjudications last school year.  Loved it. One of the many ways I fell in love with Prokofiev.


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## myaskovsky2002

Prokofiev is refreshing indeed...He's always a little boy...a bit mischief...but ok...I forgive him many things because he gives us nice melodies...sometimes grotesque. I don't like symphony no. 1 classical (tedious), no.2 Messy....I like all the other symphonies...His 7th is a bit "I am a grandpa, I'm looking for my slippers" is the end of many things...the end of the BOY. He's grown up....I compare this to the end of career of Schönberg...a Grandpa too.... Diaduska...

Martin (59 since yesterday) who will be forever young...


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## myaskovsky2002

*His evil side...*






Martin


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## Huilunsoittaja

I thought he was _all_ evil...

JK! 

Do you agree with me that perhaps he was little crazy though? I mean, very subtly, but something a little wack about him, that only once in a while is revealed in his music?


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## myaskovsky2002

> Do you agree with me that perhaps he was little crazy though? I mean, very subtly, but something a little wack about him, that only once in a while is revealed in his music?


Well, you opened my eyes showing me how he had changed his mind afterwards with this religious obssession....

I like him evil...I am a bit like that...Each human been has the two sides...at least, I do.

and...what about this?






I love this!!!!! I love it!!!!

Please listen to it, everybody!

Martin


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## missbeethoven

I LOVE Romeo and Juliet. Evgeny Kissin plays it very nicely!


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## missbeethoven

Any idea where I could get free sheet music that, myaskovsky2002?


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## myaskovsky2002

> Any idea where I could get free sheet music that, myaskovsky2002?


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## starthrower

some guy said:


> I've lived with all these operas for so long now, that I have no idea which would be considered most accessible. And accessible to one person might be inaccessible to another, after all!
> 
> So how about a brief word about each for you? (I wouldn't do this for just anyone, you know!)
> 
> _Maddelena_: Early work. Sounds a bit like _Love for Three Oranges_ in parts. It's very charming, but it didn't charm me right at first. (Come to think of it, very little Prokofiev ever charmed me at first. Some horrible glitch in my brain, I'm sure.)
> 
> _The Gambler_: Probably the least liked of his well-known operas. It's maybe a bit rough, a bit uneven. He's trying out new things in it, though. And that's always interesting. Maybe save this one for later.
> 
> _Love for Three Oranges_: This one is wild and unrestrained. It's the _Le Grand Macabre_ of the early part of the century. Good, clean fun throughout. Plus there are a couple of excerpts from this that everyone has heard over and over again.
> 
> _The Fiery Angel_: Also maybe one to leave to the side for awhile. It's not ebullient or charming, but serious and obsessive and dark. Fiery dark. If you know the third symphony, you've already heard a lot of the music of this opera. I didn't find that that helped much, though. That might simply be because this was the first Prokofiev opera I bought (in an undistinguished performance and long before I was listening to any operas much).
> 
> _Semyon Kotko_: One of Prokofiev's finest works, I'd say. It's quite a powerful, passionate work. Don't be put off by the "Soviet" story line. The story is really about the people and their human responses to the events. But even if it weren't, the music is so glorious that the plot matters not one whit.
> 
> _Betrothal in a Monastery_: From just a year or two after _Semyon Kotko,_ this one's another comedy. Not as extravagent a set up as for _Love for Three Oranges,_ but scrumptious music throughout. I'd be tempted to call this one the most accessible.
> 
> _War and Peace_: This is a big, sprawling, wildly beautiful work. It's late enough in his career to be rather milder music, but it's still great stuff. If you can like the seventh symphony and _Stone Flower,_ you won't have any trouble liking this one, either. And it's much much better than either of those two.
> 
> _Story of a Real Man_: Still waiting for a complete version of this to be recorded. By Gergiev. Not likely, as it's blatantly Soviet and quite late so quite um well decadent/melodic/lush. Still, it is Prokofiev, and even bad Prokofiev is pretty good.
> 
> So there you are. You're on your own now, at least as far as I'm concerned. There may be other views of these from other people. Not likely, as people don't seem to listen to the operas much. A great pity, I think. Prokofiev's operas have some of his finest music.


Thanks for the descriptions! I found both Love For Three Oranges (Gergiev), and the massive War & Peace (Chandos) operas at my library. I can't wait to give them a listen!


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## Ukko

starthrower said:


> Thanks for the descriptions [_some guy_]! I found both Love For Three Oranges (Gergiev), and the massive War & Peace (Chandos) operas at my library. I can't wait to give them a listen!


Ditto on the thanks. I'm taking notes.


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## drpraetorus

I like him in small doses and mostly the early works. Scythian suite is quite good. They are Seven is also very good. 

Shostakovich was not very fond of him. Either his music or him personally. One of the things Shostakovich was quite critical of was that Prokovfiev used an orchestrator.


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## drpraetorus




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## KenOC

I like a lot of Prokofiev -- including the piano concertos, the ballets, the last three symphonies, and the Sinfonia Concertante (old-style name, so sue me). Shostakovich didn't seem to like Prokofiev personally very much, called him a snob and opportunist among otherthings. He also criticized Prokofiev's orchestration, claiming that P used his students for that. I have difficulty with the idea, given the singular excellence of P's orchestration. I don't doubt he had his students give it a try, but in the end (no doubt) the orchestration was his.

Shostakovich said he typically didn't start with a piano score of orchestral works at all (as P did), since he "heard" the music with orchestration. That may well be true.


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## bigshot

I thought I knew Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet inside out. Until I got this fantastic video...








http://www.amazon.com/Romeo-Juliet-Blu-ray-Tamara-Rojo/dp/B002E2M5OG/

Spectacular! It's amazing how we forget that opera and ballet aren't just disembodied sound on CDs. It actually has a context.


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## Pugg

​Remembering Mr Prokovjef's birthday.


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## KenOC

Worth remembering! In US concert halls, Prokofiev is the most popular composer of the 20th century.


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## mbhaub

Indeed he is. Prokofieff contributed more music to the standard repertoire than any other 20th century composer - and in so many genres: solo piano, chamber, opera, symphony, film music, concertos. Great composer, yet so many people only know a handful of works. Orchestras only have a small amount of his music in the repertoire: symphonies 1 & 5, 2 violin concertos, piano concertos 3 and maybe 5. Lt Kije, Alexander Nevsky, and that's about it. So much more to explore.


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## Strange Magic

For starters, they can check out the balance of the symphonies--No. 3 is my favorite, the piano sonatas, the balance of the piano concertos including the monster, amazing No. 2; also the two string quartets, especially No. 2 with its wonderful slow movement.


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## EdwardBast

To correct some misinformation earlier in this thread: Prokofiev orchestrated his own music. The only exception I am aware of is a few tiny bits of a late ballet. Prokofiev was ill when cuts were made, and to make the connection across the new "seams," a couple minor changes were required. If I remember correctly, the timpanist of the Kirov orchestra did the work.

Shostakovich seems to have thought some of Prokofiev's music was wonderful and he said so.


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## Trepanian

Strange Magic said:


> For starters, they can check out the balance of the symphonies--No. 3 is my favorite, the piano sonatas, the balance of the piano concertos including the monster, amazing No. 2; also the two string quartets, especially No. 2 with its wonderful slow movement.


His third symphony is great, his third piano sonata is great as well.


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## mbhaub

Shostakovich did make a comment once that it was too bad Prokofieff never learned to orchestrate properly. What's missing is that Prokofieff's orchestration is what makes it sound like Prokofieff. It is not as full-bodied and heavy as Shostakovich for sure. There are some things he wrote that are virtually unplayable. Musicians have work arounds. The 3rd and 5th symphonies both demonstrate masterly use of orchestral color and it's too bad that some conductors (George Szell!) saw fit to rewrite some passages.


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## EdwardBast

mbhaub said:


> *Shostakovich did make a comment once that it was too bad Prokofieff never learned to orchestrate properly.* What's missing is that Prokofieff's orchestration is what makes it sound like Prokofieff. It is not as full-bodied and heavy as Shostakovich for sure. There are some things he wrote that are virtually unplayable. Musicians have work arounds. The 3rd and 5th symphonies both demonstrate masterly use of orchestral color and it's too bad that some conductors (George Szell!) saw fit to rewrite some passages.


If you are referring to the quotation on page 28 of Volkov's _Testimony_-"And by the way, he never did learn how to orchestrate properly"-you will need another source to back it up. Nothing in that book can be assumed to be the words of Shostakovich. The evidence of fraud in its creation is overwhelming and unrefuted.


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