# Most unlikely personality/psychology for a classical genius?



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

What composer had or has the most unlikely personality or psychology for a classical genius?
I'm thinking perhaps Erik Satie. His place was in a shambles after he died. He didn't seem
to take a part of himself seriously, or didn't have the money for a housekeeper. 

I'm curious what composers seemed to be the most unlikely candidates for composing great music.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Haydn. He was uncommonly easy going from what we hear.


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Amadeus.........................


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Would have to think quite hard of a composer whose music differs from the established picture of his personality; 
in a way, *Satie*´s small-scale works seem quite consistent with his life being that of an increasingly ironic _flaneur_; 
but, speaking in these overall terms, *Bruckner*´s timid, unarticulated (and, it seems, quite dull) personality is usually seen as a big contrast to the expressive magnictude and cosmic cataclysms of his music.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

The picture of the "crazy genius" composer who is mentally unstable and misunderstood but is a poetic and artful soul deep inside is a Romantic Era stereotype. There is no "standard personality type" for a composer.


----------



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

violadude said:


> The picture of the "crazy genius" composer who is mentally unstable and misunderstood but is a poetic and artful soul deep inside is a Romantic Era stereotype. There is no "standard personality type" for a composer.


I know that but there is a certain professionalism associated with genius composers, or a certain
type of biography, a certain type of aptitude in early life. I realize many go against the grain of this,
and so I'd like to do more research into them. I believe Delius is a composer that took some time
to settle into being serious about it.


----------



## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

violadude said:


> The picture of the "crazy genius" composer who is mentally unstable and misunderstood but is a poetic and artful soul deep inside is a Romantic Era stereotype. There is no "standard personality type" for a composer.


But what a wonderful stereotype! Let's pretend it's true.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Lully was a greedy, sensual, treacherous entrepreneur - but wrote delightful ballet music, delicate classical operas and powerful church music.


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I'll go with St. Saens. He was remarkably tight-*****.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Haydn and Bruckner sort of 'stick out', hehe. Not infuriated geniuses, calm geniuses .


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

According to Wikipedia, Shochtakovich was said to be diffident. 

albeit given the circumstances and his on-and-off relation with the CCCP, it is understandable.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Charles Ives sold insurance. 

But maybe that just means he was an unlikely personality type for an insurance salesman.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Schoenberg, he was too regimental, superstitious. Genius minds are the most free minds.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ives was more than an insurance salesman. He pretty much invented the science of using insurance as a tool in estate planning, or so 'tis said.

"During his career as an insurance executive and actuary, Ives devised creative ways to structure life-insurance packages for people of means, which laid the foundation of the modern practice of estate planning. His 'Life Insurance with Relation to Inheritance Tax,' published in 1918, was well received. As a result of this he achieved considerable fame in the insurance industry of his time, with many of his business peers surprised to learn that he was also a composer. In his spare time he composed music..."


----------



## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Dim7 said:


> But what a wonderful stereotype! Let's pretend it's true.


As a crazy genius myself, I think not. Hardly wonderful.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Ives was more than an insurance salesman. He pretty much invented the science of using insurance as a tool in estate planning, or so 'tis said.
> 
> "During his career as an insurance executive and actuary, Ives devised creative ways to structure life-insurance packages for people of means, which laid the foundation of the modern practice of estate planning. His 'Life Insurance with Relation to Inheritance Tax,' published in 1918, was well received. As a result of this he achieved considerable fame in the insurance industry of his time, with many of his business peers surprised to learn that he was also a composer. In his spare time he composed music..."


Well that just shows he was an unlikely personality type no matter what he did. In an absolute sense. So to speak.


----------



## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

regenmusic said:


> What composer had or has the most unlikely personality or psychology for a classical genius?
> I'm thinking perhaps Erik Satie. His place was in a shambles after he died. He didn't seem
> to take a part of himself seriously, or didn't have the money for a housekeeper.
> 
> I'm curious what composers seemed to be the most unlikely candidates for composing great music.


I fail to see why differences in personality, or possible psychological disorders make people "unlikely candidates". Human diversity makes for unique perspectives.

Now from ArtMusic:


> Schoenberg, he was too regimental, superstitious. Genius minds are the most free minds.


This sounds more like something of an indictment or objectification of certain kinds of persons, than an honest assessment of their capabilities. People aren't required to fit into a model that makes sense to us in order to do what they do.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Richard Strauss , although he composed music full of passion and wild colors, was a rather down to earth . matter of fact guy whose dress and demeanor was more like that of a prosperous banker than a 
an inspired composer . 
He was very interested in making as much money as possible and spent much of his spare time playing the German card game Skat , a kind of poker or bridge , and was said to have been a master of it . He would sometimes cut rehearsals for concerts and opera performances short to get home in time to play Skat with his homies, which included some eminent conductors such as Hans Knappertsbusch and others . There is a Skat playing scene in his autobiographical opera Intermezzo .
He was also notorious for being a hen-pecked husband to his tempermental wife Pauline .


----------



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Lukecash12 said:


> I fail to see why differences in personality, or possible psychological disorders make people "unlikely candidates". Human diversity makes for unique perspectives.
> 
> People aren't required to fit into a model that makes sense to us in order to do what they do.


Agreement.

But with that said, I think Wagner genuinely stands out a bit, there is something other than the completely honest self-expression aspired to or exhibited by other composers in his music, that can make other music seem kind of innocent somehow.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> I think Wagner genuinely stands out a bit, there is something other than the completely honest self-expression aspired to or exhibited by other composers in his music, that can make other music seem kind of innocent somehow.


That is enigmatic and provocative. Tell us more.


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> Agreement.
> 
> But with that said, I think Wagner genuinely stands out a bit, there is something other than the completely honest self-expression aspired to or exhibited by other composers in his music, that can make other music seem kind of innocent somehow.


I think Wagner does stand out a little due to the fact he was very skilled at composition, yet was not a musician.

Other than that, personally I feel I could substitute the word Stravinsky with Wagner in the rest of your post and the description would work - or for that matter quite a few of the 20th century and later composers. Perhaps it isn't coincidence Wagner was arguably the gateway into what became the modern styles of composition.

However, I don't think it is necessarily due to less honesty in "self-expression" necessarily as much as exploring different types of textures and perspectives. It was a natural reaction against the excess of "self-expression" going on in the Romantic era.


----------



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> That is enigmatic and provocative. Tell us more.


Well, obviously Wagner was expressing what was in his heart and mind, he certainly wrote enough to indicate that, but in my view his music tends to have a distinct potency that goes beyond what someone who wasn't trying to prove themselves a superior being would typically care to employ or even attempt.



tdc said:


> I think Wagner does stand out a little due to the fact he was very skilled at composition, yet was not a musician.
> 
> Other than that, personally I feel I could substitute the word Stravinsky with Wagner in the rest of your post and the description would work - or for that matter quite a few of the 20th century and later composers. Perhaps it isn't coincidence Wagner was arguably the gateway into what became the modern styles of composition.
> 
> However, I don't think it is necessarily due to less honesty in "self-expression" necessarily as much as exploring different types of textures and perspectives. It was a natural reaction against the excess of "self-expression" going on in the Romantic era.


Good points, athough he wasn't a skilled musician I think the legend of his notoriously poor pianistic skills was overplayed, he was capable enough to play intermediate Bach pieces as well as his own works.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> Well, obviously Wagner was expressing what was in his heart and mind, he certainly wrote enough to indicate that, but in my view his music tends to have a distinct potency that goes beyond what someone who wasn't trying to prove themselves a superior being would typically care to employ or even attempt.
> 
> Good points, athough he wasn't a skilled musician I think the legend of his notoriously poor pianistic skills was overplayed, he was capable enough to play intermediate Bach pieces as well as his own works.


Grandiosity? Superiority complex? Megalomania?

You go, guy!

It started early. As a boy he wrote a play compounded of elements from several Shakespeare plays, in which 42 characters were killed off. He had to bring some of them back as ghosts in order to have someone onstage to finish the play. Now that's ambition!

I wouldn't say that that shows an _unlikely_ personality for a composer, exactly. _Unusual,_ perhaps - but what is more unusual than setting the whole world of music on its ear and turning a sleepy German burg into a shrine to your own work?

I agree that his music is larger than life. As was he.


----------

