# Thoughts about "Glorious John" -- Sir John Barbirolli



## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Earlier this year, I heard Barbirolli's recording of Mahler's Sixth Symphony for the first time. It's a very _personal_ reading. I suppose some might call it "wayward," since his tempos are unconventionally slow. But I find it to be a reading full of vitality and strength. I immediately connected with it, and it has quickly became a favorite of mine. Plus, I gravitate toward Barbirolli's Andante/Scherzo ordering of the middle movements.

Before this M6, I only knew Barbirolli from two different recordings of Sibelius' Second Symphony. One was absolutely incandescent (with the RPO, originally recorded for Readers Digest) and the second was mediocre (with the Hallé, recorded for EMI).

Recently, I've stumbled on a few more Barbirolli recordings (Elgar's Cello Concerto & Sea Pictures; Dvořák's Eighth Symphony; Delius' orchestral works), and I've been really impressed. He strikes me as someone who might not have been the greatest of technicians or worked with the greatest of orchestras, but he seems to have brought a great deal of _warmth_ and _humanity_ to the music he conducted.

*So what do you think of Barbirolli?*

Do you have any favorite recordings?

Any anecdotes that you'd like to share?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

One of my favorite conductors. He brings a Klemperer like gravitas to his recordings which I love.
I have a Brahms cycle by him that's awesome. And his Elgar symphonies are classics.
His Mahler is grand as well.
His Sibelius is excellent too.
I am always on the lookout for his recordings. Especially old EMI ones.
His Brahms piano concertos with the young Barenboim are still my favorites.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

I've always liked his Mahler 9 with the BPO, his Elgar and Vaughan Williams string music, Tchaikovsky string Serenade, complete Peer Gynt with Halle . . . many excellent recordings.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Always makes me think of "Kaff"


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Itullian said:


> One of my favorite conductors. He brings a Klemperer like gravitas to his recordings which I love.
> I have a Brahms cycle by him that's awesome. And his Elgar symphonies are classics.
> His Mahler is grand as well.
> His Sibelius is excellent too.
> ...


He did a fine Mahler songs album with Janet Baker.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Barbirolli is excellent for British music. Sibelius too.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

GGluek said:


> I've always liked his Mahler 9 with the BPO.


Coincidentally, after posting this thread at the end of the day at work, I listened to Barbirolli's Mahler 9 on the commute home. 



hpowders said:


> He did a fine Mahler songs album with Janet Baker.


Oh yes, I forgot to mention Barbirolli's Mahler orchestral lieder disc with Baker. Immaculate!


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Badinerie said:


> Always makes me think of "Kaff"


Badinerie, I'm not sure what this means. Lost in UK English to USA English translation?


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

JACE said:


> Badinerie, I'm not sure what this means. Lost in UK English to USA English translation?


http://www.barbirollisociety.co.uk/latest/kathleen-ferrier


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> http://www.barbirollisociety.co.uk/latest/kathleen-ferrier


Oh, I see. "Kaff" = Kathleen.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Anyone have this? And if so, what do you think?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I don't care for any of his Mahler, but there are many Brits who think that his Mahler was the Bees Knees. i think his strengths were British Composers and Sibelius. His Halle version of Schubert's Great C Major was my introduction to the piece but has fallen out of favor with me.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

One thing I really like is his first recording of Elgar's second symohony. After the composer's own first recording, he's the best at bringing out the nightmarish qualities in the music.

Another thing I cherish is his highly lyrical, highly non-herioc, non Beethovenian, Brahms cycle with the Vienna SO

And of couse there's the famous Sibelius 2.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I have that box set. Lots of treasures there. I recall that most of it is mono if that makes a difference to you. Good sound anyway.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

I have his Mahler #6 and #9 from the EMI 'Complete Mahler' set -- absolutely superb readings.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Giovanni is one of My top 10 favourite conductors, love his Mahler and Sibelius, often enjoy his forages in British music-

/ptr


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Bump.

I got some new Barbirolli CDs. 

I've been listening to Sir John's recordings of Dvořák's Symphonies Nos. 7-9. These were originally issued on Pye in the UK and both Mercury (mono) and Vanguard Everyman (stereo) in the USA:

















These are EXCELLENT readings.

Incidentally, the sound is surprisingly good for the vintage. The recordings were made by Mercury engineers (i.e., Robert Fine) and they were remastered by Michael Dutton.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

C


JACE said:


> Earlier this year, I heard Barbirolli's recording of Mahler's Sixth Symphony for the first time. It's a very _personal_ reading. I suppose some might call it "wayward," since his tempos are unconventionally slow. But I find it to be a reading full of vitality and strength. I immediately connected with it, and it has quickly became a favorite of mine. Plus, I gravitate toward Barbirolli's Andante/Scherzo ordering of the middle movements.
> 
> Before this M6, I only knew Barbirolli from two different recordings of Sibelius' Second Symphony. One was absolutely incandescent (with the RPO, originally recorded for Readers Digest) and the second was mediocre (with the Hallé, recorded for EMI).
> 
> ...


JB always advocated the Andante/scherzo method for Mahler 6. To get a better picture of his greatness, try the Testament CD of Mahler 6 with the New Philharmonia, live from the Proms( in very good stereo) one night before he started recording the M6 you discuss above. You won't believe the difference. caught on the wing with an audience of 7000 plus, this is one of the greatest single performances ever caught on tape. I was standing in the audience that night (18 years old) and this, my first Mahler 6 was one of the seminal moments of my life.
Check out the JB Society, they have issued a great many marvellous CDs of many deleted recordings and some extraordinary live performances as well.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I don't think that I have heard his recordings before. What do you recommend me to start off with?


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

bigshot said:


> I have that box set. Lots of treasures there. I recall that most of it is mono if that makes a difference to you. Good sound anyway.


This Box Set is NOT mostly mono. It is mainly stereo! It comprises of many of his Pye recordings ( which were stereo) and his later EMI recordings.
Anyone who wants to get to know Barbirolli should start with this. It has the best of his recordings.
Check out the Society web site also for many re-issues and other unusual releases.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I like his BBC live recording of Bruckner's 8th with the Halle, made weeks before his death. Both the sound and playing aren't exactly in the luxury class but that's not really the point - this is music-making ruthlessly exposing its raw nerve-endings rather than being wrapped within an expensive fur coat. Anyone who's a fan of Bruno Maderna's similarly intense Mahler 9 might find a lot to like with this.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I guess I'm in the minority. I've heard quite a few of his Mahler performances and don't hear what the fuss was about. Sorry.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I've heard quite a few of his Mahler performances and don't hear what the fuss was about. Sorry.


Everyone hears music differently. That's one of the great things about it.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

albertfallickwang said:


> I don't think that I have heard his recordings before. What do you recommend me to start off with?


albert, the first Barbirolli recording that rocked my world was his Mahler Sixth. I'm familiar with his studio recording. That's where I would recommend that you start.










Pip, your recommendation has peaked my curiosity about the live version! 

EDIT:
Barbirolli's Sibelius is superb also. Here's his Sibelius Sixth with the Hallé Orchestra on YouTube: 




I particularly like Barbirolli's Sibelius First, Fourth, and Sixth with the Hallé Orchestra (in the EMI box) and, as I mentioned earlier, his Second with the Royal PO (on Testament and Chesky).


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Pip said:


> C
> JB always advocated the Andante/scherzo method for Mahler 6. To get a better picture of his greatness, try the Testament CD of Mahler 6 with the New Philharmonia, live from the Proms( in very good stereo) one night before he started recording the M6 you discuss above. You won't believe the difference. caught on the wing with an audience of 7000 plus, this is one of the greatest single performances ever caught on tape. I was standing in the audience that night (18 years old) and this, my first Mahler 6 was one of the seminal moments of my life.
> Check out the JB Society, they have issued a great many marvellous CDs of many deleted recordings and some extraordinary live performances as well.


Thanks for sharing that story Pip! There's nothing like the being in the audience when lightning strikes. And it sounds like it did that night!


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