# Opera Pet Peeves



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

what are some pet peeves you have with certain performances, productions, vocal trends, etc? I'll start with a few that bother me:
1) soprano Carmens 
2) tenors without at least a reasonably strong middle voice
3) casting of singers whose timbre does not match the role they are playing at all. common examples: Adalgisa sung by a deep, dark dramatic mezzo, Zerlina sung by an old, wobbly soprano, The Queen of the Night sung by a bright, sweet lyric coloratura 
4) opera productions which try to be like Broadway 
5) singers who do not understand the concept of vocal weight and think they can simply push their voices to sing more dramatically
6) producers who select an opera to put on without regard for their retinue of singers. Turandot, Wagner and Norma come to mind as the primary offenders. 
7) Wagnerian singers who think wobbly vibrato is actually a _good_ thing and that singing with elegant technique need only apply to specialists of Italian rep. 
8) singers who get overly emotional and fall on their face technically 
9) male singers who sing high notes like they are barking rather than singing
10) singers who think that cleanly executing vocal runs is optional. even worse, singers of the above ilk who claim they are "coloratura sopranos".


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## wagner4evr (Jul 10, 2010)

Does it have to be performance related? Because I'll tell you what really pisses me off:

1. People who come to the opera looking like they just stepped out of a coal mine. I'm not expecting tuxes, suits, or gowns, but c'mon...there is at least some element of respect for the performers. Who goes on a date or interview with shredded jeans, sweatshirt, and a fishing vest?

2. People who arrive late and shove their way through your row, forcing you to move/get up during the performance.

3. Curtain call bailers: People who can't be bothered to applaud _at all_ because _they_ have to be first out of the parking garage, are so _ultra_ important that five minutes can't be spared to show the performers some much deserved respect, and who instead prefer to shove their way through an entire row.

The me, me, me generation >.>


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Coughing. Take some cough mixture why don't you. Always the worst up in the amphitheater. I swear some people only turn up to cough through a performance.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Very entertaining list Balalaikaboy. Some resonated with me more than others. I give the opera houses the benefit of the doubt that they try to get the best singers they can.

_4) opera productions which try to be like Broadway _
Yeah, please keep jazz hands and audience stares out of opera. We're not stupid and don't need spoon feeding.

Wagner4evr, I guess I'm not quite so curmudgeonly. The typical opera audience (certainly in the UK) is polite and considerate. Catching the last train home has been an issue for theatre-goes for more than a century. Surely performers are used to it.

Now we come to my pet peeve. It concerns productions, modern or otherwise.

1) Bad lighting. Turn on those spot lamps on so we can see what's going on!
2) Leather trench-coats, lounge-suits and other grey generic clothing. I've been going to opera so long I remember the good ol' days when productions were in colour!


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> what are some pet peeves you have with certain performances, productions, vocal trends, etc? I'll start with a few that bother me:
> 1) soprano Carmens


seriously though, what soprano can do THIS?


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## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

wagner4evr said:


> 2. People who arrive late and shove their way through your row, forcing you to move/get up during the performance.
> 
> The me, me, me generation >.>


The ushers shouldn't allow latecomers until an intermission. That's the policy at my opera house, and I assume most others.


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## wagner4evr (Jul 10, 2010)

papsrus said:


> The ushers shouldn't allow latecomers until an intermission. That's the policy at my opera house, and I assume most others.


Yeah it's pretty standard procedure. But we have had this happen to us a few times -at our last opera, in fact -and it's annoying as ****. Same people also also bailed without a single round of applause. I wanted blood.

Still, probably nothing is quite as bad as TALKERS.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> 2) tenors without at least a reasonably strong middle voice


I'm gonna extend this to all voice types (notably girly lil teacup coloratura sopranos. they are nice to listen to for 5 minutes or so, but after that, give me less icing and more cake please)


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Alexander said:


> 2) Leather trench-coats, lounge-suits and other grey generic clothing. I've been going to opera so long I remember the good ol' days when productions were in colour!


Leather trench-coats changed my mind about 'modern' productons.

For example this






However, if repeated it must be boring.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The rude ones that rush up the aisle at curtain call time to catch a bus or train without having the graciousness to at least applaud the cast and show their appreciation. They step on your toes trying to get out of the row. So what do I do? I purposely drop something on the floor that I have to pick up, stopping the offender from barreling his/her way through the row. I LOVE doing that!!

The ones who douse themselves in Giorgio or other obnoxious perfumes that make everyone around them gag.

The show-offs who can't wait to immediately applaud before the final note is finished or directly after an aria that needs to be respected for the reverence of the moment like the Ave Maria in _Otello_, for example.

The booers to singers that have tried to do their best but are having a bad night.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

Audience clapping in piano parts.

Quiet singers who should sing with wireless mic in operetts or musicals instead.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Balalaikaboy wrote:

*singers who get overly emotional and fall on their face technically*

There are few things more embarrassing to witness than this. And to it I'd add "so-called vocal acting that sounds unmusical."

I don't mind "opera productions which try to be like Broadway," however.

My other pet peeves are:

-- Singers onstage together who don't make eye contact with each other.
-- Singers who wobble. I'm not talking here about a vibrato, or even a "wide" vibrato a la Pilar Lorengar, but an actual wobble, or an _inconsistent_ vibrato that affects pitch, like the kind you often hear in singers who are way past their primes.
-- Sopranos with thin, nondescript middle voices.
-- Singers with no notion of legato.
-- Soprano Carmens or soprano Rosinas.
-- When Germont in LA TRAVIATA is played as a totally unsympathetic "heavy."
-- Pared down, "abstract" stagings of Bellini's operas. IMO, this kind of staging simply doesn't look right with the music, if you know what I mean.
-- Cutting the Duke's Act II cabaletta in RIGOLETTO.
-- Any cuts at all in LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR.
-- Audience members who wait until the very last second before the performance begins to stop talking.
-- Audiences who cough every time there's a quiet passage.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> And to it I'd add "so-called vocal acting that sounds unmusical."


indeed



> -- Singers who wobble. I'm not talking here about a vibrato, or even a "wide" vibrato a la Pilar Lorengar, but an actual wobble.


especially if they believe they can get away with it because they're "dramatic"



> or an _inconsistent_ vibrato that affects pitch, like the kind you often hear in singers who are way past their primes


a la Tebaldi



> -- Sopranos with thin, nondescript middle voices.


mmhmm a thin middle register means a lack of fortitude and consistency. two things needed more in opera than almost anywhere else



> -- Singers with no notion of legato.


PREACH! legato is the lettuce in the salad of opera. you can skip out on the onions, the cheese or the olives, but the lettuce is what holds it all together.



> -- Soprano Carmens or soprano Rosinas.


soprano Rosinas aren't preferable, but they can work if done tastefully (which they usually aren't). soprano Carmens on the other hand....no (well, except Callas of course, but does that even count? lol). hell, I think plenty of _mezzos_ aren't deep enough for Carmen.

another one: singers who put zero effort into low notes (yes, this even bothers me about Sutherland, despite how much I love her). this seems to be especially common in men. for whatever reason, low notes in males don't seem to be very highly valued unless one is a basso profundo. one would think it would be the opposite given traditional gender roles, but I guess not (this holds doubly true in popular music). I don't expect every singer to have a lower register like Leontyne Price, Ewa Podles or Samuel Ramey, but give me _something_. low notes have the potential to be exciting, sinister and formidable, and they deserve more attention.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

The only thing that bothers me in operas---

opera CUTS!


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

I am super allergic to duster like this on stage. To me this is more disgusting than a spaceship Parsifal or a streetwalker Violetta.








I detest Patrice Chéreau with a passion. Why did he love to dress everyone with these awkward dusters?

Not just in opera. Here is his production of Racine's _Phèdre_. Amazing actors and actresses, in filthy chereau-styled dusters:






P/S: chereau-styled suits are annoying, too!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

wagner4evr said:


> Curtain call bailers: People who can't be bothered to applaud _at all_ because _they_ have to be first out of the parking garage, are so _ultra_ important that five minutes can't be spared to show the performers some much deserved respect, and who instead prefer to shove their way through an entire row.


I went to Seattle a few years ago and I was very surprised when half the audience got up seconds after the opera ended and before the curtain came up. At first I assumed it was because they were wanting to get seats for Speight Jenkins' after show Q and A session. I hurried off to the hall where the session was taking place and for ages, I was the only one there. Then I realised that people were just in a hurry to leave the theatre.


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## wagner4evr (Jul 10, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I went to Seattle a few years ago and I was very surprised when half the audience got up seconds after the opera ended and before the curtain came up. At first I assumed it was because they were wanting to get seats for Speight Jenkins' after show Q and A session. I hurried off to the hall where the session was taking place and for ages, I was the only one there. Then I realised that people were just in a hurry to leave the theatre.


Indeed, it's become pretty rotten. It wasn't just a _few_ absconders at the curtain of our most recent performance (Tosca) either, but rather a fairly healthy/ignominious percentage of the floor evacuating en masse. Probably the same idiots who have no problem dedicating hours to a Wagner production, but can't spare five minutes to applaud performers who've spent a lifetime training and may have flown halfway around the world to make the opera possible.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

wagner4evr said:


> Indeed, it's become pretty rotten. It wasn't just a _few_ absconders at the curtain of our most recent performance (Tosca) either, but rather a fairly healthy/ignominious percentage of the floor evacuating en masse. Probably the same idiots who have no problem dedicating hours to a Wagner production, but can't spare five minutes to applaud performers who've spent a lifetime training and may have flown halfway around the world to make the opera possible.


I'm gong to call Marty later and tell him, he'll be appalled. Their mother didn't introduce Frazier and Niles to the Opera so they could behave like philistines!


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I can understand a little about people having to catch he last public transport home, some towns and cities have appalling services.
My biggest peeve though is under staged productions. I like to have some sort of scenery or costumes to look at. Also lighting. I dont expect to have to squint into the dark void to see if there is anyone actually on stage. I have seen at least two productions that were guilty of this. I dont want to have to take any special equipment with me into the auditorium!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

I will confess I’m just as irritable and easily distracted as the rest of you….

But it could be worse.
Re leaving early. IN the 1920’s one of the biggest acts on Broadway was Ukulele Ike (later he sang When you wish upon a Star for Disney). His last train left so early that he had his contracts state his performance would finish at 9pm. He never appeared for a curtain call.

I’ve sat behind ladies with 12” hairdo’s (and I’m tall). Beside serial twitchers, ball scratchers (“pocket hockey champs”), hummers, non washers and the chap who kept trying to use my shoulder as his pillow. I’ve waited 7 minutes at the start of Anything Goes for the row in front of us to be filled by Sarah Ferguson and her pals (the management definitely were in on this – shame on them). Seen productions so dark you couldn’t make out who was singing. And yet, and yet….

All of the above were once standard fare at the Opera. The more fashionable you were the later you came. If you stopped talking it was only when the acknowledged star stepped to the front of the stage and sang their big number – which was often interpolated form last years hit. NO A/C and bathing not a regular occurrence.

Sometimes it’s bad to day but wasn’t it always? Positively and negatively the audience is a part of the live performance too.

Continue to vent….


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

so many comments about the _audience_. that's totally fine, I just wasn't expecting this thread to take that direction.  I confess, the only distracting experience I've had in the audience was during a performance of The Mikado when I had to sit in the same section of the balcony with a men's choir full of drop dead *gorgeous* specimens. "noooo! I'm trying to concentrate! stop being so hawt!  "


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## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

I guess I'm a philistine. 

Occasionally, when I've sat in an aisle seat, back row of the forward section of the balcony right next to an exit, I have spun and headed for the door as soon as the curtain dropped. I'm on the aisle. I'm not climbing over anyone. I paid for the ticket. I've sat quietly throughout the performance, enjoyed the music and the performance. It's a free country. It's late and how I exit the theater is nobody's business, as long as I'm able to do so discretely. 

I'm not stampeding up a long aisle from a front row seat. But if I'm next to an exit, and can duck out discretely, sure.

As for the production itself, I try to take it on its own terms. I'm not evangelical about "dusters" or the mid-range quality of sopranos. You're in the moment. There's some sort of artistic vision being offered. Enjoy it for what it is. 

Now, I will admit to occasional annoyance at those who somehow find themselves unable to sit attentively for a few hours and focus on the performance. The candy wrapper-rustlers, fidgety jewelry-clangers, those who feel it necessary to talk, etc. But, it's a live performance. There's going to be occasional distractions. There will also undoubtedly be riveting stretches where the performers and orchestra and wonderful music hold the audience in the palm of their hands. Those are the moments I let envelop me.

I'm sure I'll be roundly ostracized for such boorish attitudes, but just try not to rattle your gold bracelets while you shake your fist at me.

:tiphat:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Wow, I've never noticed any audience members leaving before the curtain calls. But I have noticed plenty of people at Local State Opera Company who are allowed to come in late! It really annoys me because it's noisy and throws shafts of light across the stage. In a more big-name opera house they wouldn't be allowed to do it.

Two more things: I don't like period-instrument productions of Mozart's operas (but I know I'm in the minority here on that), and I don't like it when singers do too much "straight-toning," or singing without any vibrato, because it tends to make them sound as if they're singing flat. But I must say that I haven't actually encountered this in the opera house, only on recordings.

Oh, and how could I have forgotten this one: awkwardly written surtitles are a major pet peeve of mine. By "awkwardly written" I mean translations that are literal to the point where what's actually being sung is far more poetic and subtle than the version of it that appears on the surtitle screen. Some of these translations are laugh-inducing, and some are just boringly prosaic.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

papsrus said:


> I guess I'm a philistine.
> 
> Occasionally, when I've sat in an aisle seat, back row of the forward section of the balcony right next to an exit, I have spun and headed for the door as soon as the curtain dropped. I'm on the aisle. I'm not climbing over anyone. I paid for the ticket. I've sat quietly throughout the performance, enjoyed the music and the performance. It's a free country. It's late and how I exit the theater is nobody's business, as long as I'm able to do so discretely.
> 
> ...


Absolutey! That's being thoughtful of others and I certainly agree that there are those who have to catch that last train but they need to do it in a non-disruptive style just like you suggested.
Bravo!

I also forgot to add those who immediately jump up at curtain calls, forcing all behind them to stand up too.
Drives me crazy. (Waters down the true standing ovation which has bit the dust these days.)


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

One not mentioned before, members of the Orchestra who get up and wander out for a jar every time they have a few bars off. 
WTF stay and listen to the best music in the world. Don't move about, it distracts me and I'm paying your wages!

Yes horn section. I'm talkin to you!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> ... I don't like it when singers do too much "straight-toning," or singing without any vibrato, because it tends to make them sound as if they're singing flat. But I must say that I haven't actually encountered this in the opera house, only on recordings.
> ...


Interesting - quite a lot of the time I prefer singers when they don't use vibrato, if only because they don't then sound like they're trying to gargle shards of glass.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> One not mentioned before, members of the Orchestra who get up and wander out for a jar every time they have a few bars off.
> WTF stay and listen to the best music in the world. Don't move about, it distracts me and I'm paying your wages!
> Yes horn section. I'm talkin to you!


I would honestly think that was kinda funny for some reason 

that said now that you mention the orchestra, I have another pet peeve with many conductors with regards to pumping up the orchestra inappropriately loud. especially when
1) the singer is a lyric soprano/baritone/tenor
2) the singer is younger (like, 23-30) and not able to keep up 
3) the acoustics of the hall are such that hearing the singer is already difficult in some areas 
and/or
4) you have a voice which is _already_ too small for a given role


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Interesting - quite a lot of the time I prefer singers when they don't use vibrato, if only because they don't then sound like they're trying to gargle shards of glass.


singers who are singing properly do not "use" vibrato. it is the singers who sing straight-toned who are "using" a certain stylistic technique. vibrato is the natural result of healthy release of the vocal chords.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> soprano Rosinas.


- histrionic coloratura soprano Rosina: no
- soprano Rosina with warm, creamy middle register and relaxed delivery: yes (a la Moffo  )


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Maybe this isn't a pet peeve as it has little to do with me personally, but something I can't figure out is why an opera-goer would show up at an opera knowing little to nothing about it -- not any of the music, not even the story line. I've always made it a practice to listen to the whole opera before I attend -- or if I don't have time to do that, I listen to a couple of the main arias and read a detailed plot summary. I recently sat next to two women who were apparently encountering the plot of SALOME for the first time, via the program notes, minutes before the curtain went up. One of them remarked, "I'm already confused."


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Maybe this isn't a pet peeve as it has little to do with me personally, but something I can't figure out is why an opera-goer would show up at an opera knowing little to nothing about it -- not any of the music, not even the story line. I've always made it a practice to listen to the whole opera before I attend -- or if I don't have time to do that, I listen to a couple of the main arias and read a detailed plot summary. *I recently sat next to two women who were apparently encountering the plot of SALOME for the first time, via the program notes, minutes before the curtain went up. One of them remarked, "I'm already confused."*


Imagine her surprise when Salome strips down to a G-string and gets handed a head on a platter.

"Well, I declare, no pot roast of mine ever came out looking like that! And couldn't she dress for dinner? No wonder these Arab fanatics are beheading... Oh, dear me!"


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

When the overture starts and it's being played at a tempo you're not comfortable with...or you can't hear the basses etc.
That puts me in a bad mood and the curtain hasn't even gone up yet.

Then, the curtain goes up and there's nothing but a solitary chair on the stage. Is it too early to sneak out?


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## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

When somebody switches out the overture to "Take Me Out to the Ball Game".


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

1) composers of Wagnerian opera who take the tempo tastelessly slow, drudging pace to the point where it is reminiscent to retirement home reminiscent 
2) composers of bel canto who take the tempo way to fast and the singers are unable to actually sing the runs


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Do you mean conductors?


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Celloman said:


> When somebody switches out the overture to "Take Me Out to the Ball Game".


A little _Night at the Opera_ reference there, for those of you who didn't know.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Alexander said:


> 2) Leather trench-coats


The least creative way to enhance the evilness of the villain.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Alexander said:


> Do you mean conductors?


whoops! yes I did XD


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Alexander said:


> Leather trench-coats, lounge-suits and other grey generic clothing. I've been going to opera so long I remember the good ol' days when productions were in colour!


With you 100%. Whilst visiting my parents, I saw a production of Otello that was set on battleship. I hope everyone likes grey!


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

When audience members don't know when to applaud. They either don't applaud when they're supposed to, or they applaud too early, cutting off the last few notes.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Bellinilover said:


> ...or they applaud too early, cutting off the last few notes.


Oh yes. Or in the middle of an aria, after the tenor has stretched out a money-note way too long.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> Oh yes. Or in the middle of an aria, after the tenor has stretched out a money-note way too long.


Another baffling situation is when some people who don't know the work think the end of Act I is the end of the opera. Like years ago when I was at a performance of _Il barbiere di Siviglia_, as Act I ended I overheard someone say something like, "The opera's over, right?" Yeah because, I mean, all the conflicts of the plot have been resolved.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> With you 100%. Whilst visiting my parents, I saw a production of Otello that was set on battleship. I hope everyone likes grey!


So the director read the libretto as far as 'L'orgoglio musulmano sepolto e in mar' and decided it was about the war on terror? At least it makes a change from Nazis. 

I way prefer the original costumes, even if they weren't quite as macho:


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

That Otello one makes me chuckle. I think we should start a quiz thread where we have to name the opera from a picture of a production. I'll see if I can dig some out.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Imagine her surprise when Salome strips down to a G-string and gets handed a head on a platter.
> 
> "Well, I declare, no pot roast of mine ever came out looking like that! And couldn't she dress for dinner? No wonder these Arab fanatics are beheading... Oh, dear me!"


- "Is that recipe _Mind Over Platter_?- or 'pure' rump roast?"

- "Nothing butt."


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Figleaf said:


>


Yearning, or dying?


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Looks more like indigestion to me . . .


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

opera pet peeve is when someone who is much taller than me blocks my view to the stage  and I can't move my seat.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> Yearning, or dying?


The latter, I believe. Photographs of the great singers of that era are fascinating because they show a completely different style of operatic acting, one that's all about big, statuesque gestures. It seems to suit the heightened, larger than life nature of the music better than a more pared down, naturalistic modern style of acting does. I think that's why the grand, beautifully painted backdrops and arguably OTT costumes of the nineteenth century will always seem appropriate for the operas of that era, and Otello on a modern battleship dressed in army surplus clothing will always feel like a disappointment.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> The latter, I believe. Photographs of the great singers of that era are fascinating because they show a completely different style of operatic acting, one that's all about big, statuesque gestures. It seems to suit the heightened, larger than life nature of the music better than a more pared down, naturalistic modern style of acting does. I think that's why the grand, beautifully painted backdrops and arguably OTT costumes of the nineteenth century will always seem appropriate for the operas of that era, and Otello on a modern battleship dressed in army surplus clothing will always feel like a disappointment.


Acting styles do change with the times, even in straight theater and, indeed, in film. Theater acting in 1900 would probably not be agreeable to us in its extreme stylization of gesture, but it does seem that most of us can still enjoy acting styles grander than the naturalism prevailing today. The demands of singing make perfect naturalism inpossible in opera, and singers must find ways of making larger gestures and music work together for a convincing expressive effect. Anyone who has watched the remarkable film of Act 2 of _Tosca_ from Covent Garden with Maria Callas and Tito Gobbi has seen two consummate masters of the art of operatic acting who can move confidently between naturalism and music-based stylization with no incongruity and with telling dramatic effect. Callas always said that she found the key to portraying a character in the music, and she made her whole body, as well as her voice, an eloquent instrument of the composer's emotional intent.

If you haven't seen that film, drop what you're doing and watch it.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Oh another pet peeve... when I watch an opera DVD please no subtitles in white on a light background. I can't read those very well .


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Acting styles do change with the times, even in straight theater and, indeed, in film. Theater acting in 1900 would probably not be agreeable to us in its extreme stylization of gesture, but it does seem that most of us can still enjoy acting styles grander than the naturalism prevailing today. The demands of singing make perfect naturalism inpossible in opera, and singers must find ways of making larger gestures and music work together for a convincing expressive effect. Anyone who has watched the remarkable film of Act 2 of _Tosca_ from Covent Garden with Maria Callas and Tito Gobbi has seen two consummate masters of the art of operatic acting who can move confidently between naturalism and music-based stylization with no incongruity and with telling dramatic effect. Callas always said that she found the key to portraying a character in the music, and she made her whole body, as well as her voice, an eloquent instrument of the composer's emotional intent.
> 
> If you haven't seen that film, drop what you're doing and watch it.


Thank you for that link. I'd never seen it before. Gobbi is absolutely riveting. Having watched the clip, I couldn't understand why I'd overlooked such an amazing artist for so long- then I played a couple of his song recordings, and remembered why.  Perhaps he needed a really meaty acting role to be interesting as a singer. Callas is charismatic, but I find her (over)acting a bit distracting (perhaps it was more effective from a distance in the theatre, as opposed to in cinematic close-ups), and a few wobbly high notes in 'Vissi d'Arte' spoiled the aria a bit for me. I suppose her legend has taken on such a life of its own that the reality has trouble competing with it. Even though I'm carping, it's a very exciting performance, and the powerful acting could probably convert quite a few people who think they don't like opera!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Albert7 said:


> opera pet peeve is when someone who is much taller than me blocks my view to the stage  and I can't move my seat.


That's one of the reasons why I love the front row of the stalls/balcony! Or at least the end of the row so if the person in front is tall, I can peer round him/her without annoying the person behind.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

sospiro said:


> That's one of the reasons why I love the front row of the stalls/balcony! Or at least the end of the row so if the person in front is tall, I can peer round him/her without annoying the person behind.


Some of us tall people are aware of the issue. People don't pay good money to see the back of my head. I often go for side/aisle/rear for that reason. While we're on this diversion: Balcony/box seats, people in front who lean forward, blocking the view of the person behind. Sit back people!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Tito Gobbi? Opposite Callas, simply the best Scarpia I have ever heard.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Alexander said:


> Some of us tall people are aware of the issue. People don't pay good money to see the back of my head. I often go for side/aisle/rear for that reason. While we're on this diversion: Balcony/box seats, people in front who lean forward, blocking the view of the person behind. Sit back people!


I hope you don't think I'm blaming the tall person! That's a lovely thing to do but it's such a shame that you have to choose a seat you may not really want in order to be considerate to the person behind.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Thank you for that link. I'd never seen it before. Gobbi is absolutely riveting. Having watched the clip, I couldn't understand why I'd overlooked such an amazing artist for so long- then I played a couple of his song recordings, and remembered why.  Perhaps he needed a really meaty acting role to be interesting as a singer. Callas is charismatic, but I find her (over)acting a bit distracting (perhaps it was more effective from a distance in the theatre, as opposed to in cinematic close-ups), and a few wobbly high notes in 'Vissi d'Arte' spoiled the aria a bit for me. I suppose her legend has taken on such a life of its own that the reality has trouble competing with it. Even though I'm carping, it's a very exciting performance, and the powerful acting could probably convert quite a few people who think they don't like opera!


There's certainly a huge difference between acting on stage and acting for the camera. When stage performances, especially of opera where people are singing strenuously, are filmed we're seeing things from quite an unnatural perspective, and have to make a mental adjustment for it. After all, people in the back of the theater have to see what's going on. I don't think there's the least suspicion of overacting in that performance. I've watched it probably seven or eight times and am permanently overwhelmed by the depth of creativity those two people possessed. They bring to Puccini's little melodrama a Shakespearean power, beside which all other performances I've seen seem weak and boring. I've shown this film to people who don't know opera and they've been amazed; I'd like to think Callas and Gobbi are still winning souls for the gods of opera and classical music.

Hmmm..... This is supposed to be about pet peeves.  How about: 1.) They didn't film Acts 1 and 3; 2.) This is the only Callas staged performance on film; 3.) This should be required watching for every pop/rock/rap-addled student in every school on earth.

(As far as those problematic high notes go, Callas was only a year from her last appearance in opera. You have to love the fact that, despite vocal deterioration, she never spares herself, and even if a high C is vocally perilous it's dramatically powerful.)


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> There's certainly a huge difference between acting on stage and acting for the camera. When stage performances, especially of opera where people are singing strenuously, are filmed we're seeing things from quite an unnatural perspective, and have to make a mental adjustment for it. After all, people in the back of the theater have to see what's going on. I don't think there's the least suspicion of overacting in that performance. I've watched it probably seven or eight times and am permanently overwhelmed by the depth of creativity those two people possessed. They bring to Puccini's little melodrama a Shakespearean power, beside which all other performances I've seen seem weak and boring. I've shown this film to people who don't know opera and they've been amazed; I'd like to think Callas and Gobbi are still winning souls for the gods of opera and classical music.
> 
> Hmmm..... This is supposed to be about pet peeves.  How about: 1.) They didn't film Acts 1 and 3; 2.) This is the only Callas staged performance on film; 3.) This should be required watching for every pop/rock/rap-addled student in every school on earth.
> 
> (As far as those problematic high notes go, Callas was only a year from her last appearance in opera. You have to love the fact that, despite vocal deterioration, she never spares herself, and even if a high C is vocally perilous it's dramatically powerful.)


_The only Callas staged performance on film_? That seems like surprising number of missed opportunities, given that her career lasted into the era of television. I didn't realise that this performance was quite so late in her career, which explains the high notes. Better a great artist who's a little past their best than an ordinary one in his or her prime.

The paucity of movie footage of great singers of the past (I'm talking pre-Callas, though there may be surprising omissions in the case of later singers) is a regret of mine too. Most of the experimental synchronised sound films of opera singers made in the first few years of the twentieth century seem to have been lost, and it's a 'pet peeve' of mine that nobody seems to care enough to scour archives and private collections for the missing prints. (This may be a future project of mine, though I rather hope somebody with more contacts and superior language skills gets there first and saves me from having to do the work!)


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> There's certainly a huge difference between acting on stage and acting for the camera. When stage performances, especially of opera where people are singing strenuously, are filmed we're seeing things from quite an unnatural perspective, and have to make a mental adjustment for it. After all, people in the back of the theater have to see what's going on. I don't think there's the least suspicion of overacting in that performance. I've watched it probably seven or eight times and am permanently overwhelmed by the depth of creativity those two people possessed. They bring to Puccini's little melodrama a Shakespearean power, beside which all other performances I've seen seem weak and boring. I've shown this film to people who don't know opera and they've been amazed; I'd like to think Callas and Gobbi are still winning souls for the gods of opera and classical music.
> 
> Hmmm..... This is supposed to be about pet peeves.  How about: 1.) They didn't film Acts 1 and 3; 2.) This is the only Callas staged performance on film; 3.) This should be required watching for every pop/rock/rap-addled student in every school on earth.
> 
> (As far as those problematic high notes go, Callas was only a year from her last appearance in opera. You have to love the fact that, despite vocal deterioration, she never spares herself, and even if a high C is vocally perilous it's dramatically powerful.)


Absolutely.

There is nothing ever 'melodramatic' or 'hyperbolic' about Callas- she expresses herself suitably appropriate to the occasion; so much in fact that masters of theater and cinema-craft like Zeffirelli and Visconti expressed a fervent interest in her at an early point of her career.

Zeffirelli worshipped her and Visconti was always fond of telling the story of how from the early days when she first did Kundry and Norma, he would secure his own special box for the occasion and shout like a mad fanatic and send her flowers when Callas took her bows.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

The constant head-bobbers are the worst. I went to a chamber concert recently, and the gentleman in front of me constantly weaved, bobbed, nodded, and swayed through four movements of Schubert and four of Fauré. I wanted to snap his neck! I mean, I can appreciate that all of us music-lovers will occasionally get carried up in the moment, but two hours of constant cranial acrobatics??? I really, really tried to block it out -- no go. Get a rope.


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## papsrus (Oct 7, 2014)

Barelytenor said:


> The constant head-bobbers are the worst. I went to a chamber concert recently, and the gentleman in front of me constantly weaved, bobbed, nodded, and swayed through four movements of Schubert and four of Fauré. I wanted to snap his neck! I mean, I can appreciate that all of us music-lovers will occasionally get carried up in the moment, but two hours of constant cranial acrobatics??? I really, really tried to block it out -- no go. Get a rope.


We would like to experience live events on our own ideal terms. But that's impossible when surrounded by hundreds of other people who also want to experience the event on their own ideal terms.

What to do. What to do.

We could get a job with an opera company (run away with the circus) and sit in on full dress rehearsals in empty theaters, undisturbed by anyone. Except we'd be lonely and run the terrifying risk of some assistant director halting the entire production mid-course to reposition a lamp. The emotional wreckage would be too much to bear.

A private box all to our lonesome? Costly but at least feasible.

At my opera theater there are a couple of seats off to each side right in front of the orchestra pit that are all by themselves, separated from the rest of the seating (see below). Not sure why. Maybe they just had a few extra seats laying around. A possible solution.









But in the end, I'll trade one candy wrapper rustler behind me for a whole row of head bobbers in front, no questions asked. I can close my eyes, not my ears.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Please do not eat potato chips in front of me while I am trying to enjoy Madame Butterfly. Thanks .


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

sospiro said:


> I went to Seattle a few years ago and I was very surprised when half the audience got up seconds after the opera ended and before the curtain came up. At first I assumed it was because they were wanting to get seats for Speight Jenkins' after show Q and A session. I hurried off to the hall where the session was taking place and for ages, I was the only one there. Then I realised that people were just in a hurry to leave the theatre.


I think the Seattle Center Parking Garage is the culprit as if you get back to your car when most are exiting you can find yourself in a half hour traffic jam and I suspect many want to avoid that, especially after a long opera. Rude but practical I guess when one is tired.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

My all time opera pet peeve was paying $175 to sit in less than ideal seats for Die Walkure, one of my favorite operas, at Washington National Opera to hear Domingo. They proceeded to strip all the Nordic god intentions of the composer away from the opera and set it in Appalachia in the American South ( being sung in German)!!!!!!! My gay nerves!!!!!! I left after the second act when Sigmund and Sieglinde were cavorting under a freeway with trashed sofas and the detritus of homeless people! My gay nerves!!!! I want horns and breastplates for God's sake!!!! Am I a plebeian for wanting a Wagner opera instead of Coal Miner's Daughter.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My all time opera pet peeve was paying $175 to sit in less than ideal seats for Die Walkure, one of my favorite operas, at Washington National Opera to hear Domingo. They proceeded to strip all the Nordic god intentions of the composer away from the opera and set it in Appalachia in the American South ( being sung in German)!!!!!!! My gay nerves!!!!!! I left after the second act when Sigmund and Sieglinde were cavorting under a freeway with trashed sofas and the detritus of homeless people! My gay nerves!!!! I want horns and breastplates for God's sake!!!! Am I a plebeian for wanting a Wagner opera instead of Coal Miner's Daughter.


At least it was set in the Caledonians.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I just read a review of a recent new production of Lucia di Lammermoor at the Bavarian State Opera, where the director decided to shift events from 17th century Scotland to the mid-20th century U.S., where Edgardo became a sort of James Dean figure and Lucia sang the Mad Scene in front of a microphone, wearing a sequined evening gown reminiscent of that worn by Marilyn Monroe at JFK's birthday bash. The reviewer thought it was great. I though . . . um, why is a guy (Ashton) in the U.S. worried about some Mary replacing some William on the throne of Scotland?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAuer said:


> I just read a review of a recent new production of Lucia di Lammermoor at the Bavarian State Opera, where the director decided to shift events from 17th century Scotland to the mid-20th century U.S., where Edgardo became a sort of James Dean figure and Lucia sang the Mad Scene in front of a microphone, wearing a sequined evening gown reminiscent of that worn by Marilyn Monroe at JFK's birthday bash. The reviewer thought it was great. I though . . . um, why is a guy (Ashton) in the U.S. worried about some Mary replacing some William on the throne of Scotland?


My sister was lead soprano in Darmstadt, Germany for 15 years back in the 70's. She said she is so grateful to have had a career before Eurotrash became fashionable and she could wear gorgeous hand made period gowns that made a singer feel like she was the character in the opera as written.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

New Opera houses are just too big!

Seriously. Aida was composed for the opening of a new Opera house in Cairo. Seating 660!

I've been to Palais Garnier and have no interest in going to the Bastile/Earls Court etc etc.

I believe that many great voices of the past that were considered large just wouldn't cut the mustard in e.g. today’s Met.


I realise how impossible my peeve is, I certainly wouldn't pay 10x the price to see Don Giovanni in the EstatesTheatre Prague, but it is a peeve of mine that Opera is so much less intimate than most composers envisioned.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Belowpar said:


> New Opera houses are just too big!
> 
> Seriously. Aida was composed for the opening of a new Opera house in Cairo. Seating 660!
> 
> ...


Can you imagine Joan Sutherland's voice in a theater as small as the historic one in Venice, where she did Alcina!!!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Can you imagine Joan Sutherland's voice in a theater as small as the historic one in Venice, where she did Alcina!!!


_Ab-so-LUTE-ly!_- or Callas in her 1949 Princess Abigaille mode for that matter.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> There's certainly a huge difference between acting on stage and acting for the camera. When stage performances, especially of opera where people are singing strenuously, are filmed we're seeing things from quite an unnatural perspective, and have to make a mental adjustment for it. After all, people in the back of the theater have to see what's going on. I don't think there's the least suspicion of overacting in that performance. I've watched it probably seven or eight times and am permanently overwhelmed by the depth of creativity those two people possessed. They bring to Puccini's little melodrama a Shakespearean power, beside which all other performances I've seen seem weak and boring. I've shown this film to people who don't know opera and they've been amazed; I'd like to think Callas and Gobbi are still winning souls for the gods of opera and classical music.
> 
> Hmmm..... This is supposed to be about pet peeves.  How about: 1.) They didn't film Acts 1 and 3; 2.) This is the only Callas staged performance on film; 3.) This should be required watching for every pop/rock/rap-addled student in every school on earth.
> 
> (As far as those problematic high notes go, Callas was only a year from her last appearance in opera. You have to love the fact that, despite vocal deterioration, she never spares herself, and even if a high C is vocally perilous it's dramatically powerful.)


While is is not very good quality, there is a video of parts of Callas in Traviata which I recently found on YouTube. I will look for it and add the link to this post.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Singers who intentionally drown out other singers.

Singers singing their parts as if by rote.

Audience members who refuse to applaud until after the final note of an act is over.

Incessant coughers who always cough at the most sensitive hushed, beautiful orchestral parts.

Snorers. Why do they even bother attending?

Audience members who unwrap a piece of candy for the same length of time as a Mahler adagio.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Snorers. Why do they even bother attending?
> 
> Audience members who unwrap a piece of candy for the same length of time as a Mahler adagio.


Years ago there was an Orchestra strike at Covent Garden and all perfomances wer cancelled. When it was finally sorted the Evening Standard had a cartoon with two businessmen talking in front of a News hoardings saying "Opera Strike Resolved."

The bubble had one of them saying "Oh thank God, I've been sleep deprived..."

I know one can't hear the other audience members when the Orchestra is fortissimo, so it seems like they wait for the Piano sections to cough etc, but I once sat next to a woman who only thought to have a sweet during the quieter sections!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> While is is not very good quality, there is a video of parts of Callas in Traviata which I recently found on YouTube. I will look for it and add the link to this post.


A precious fragment. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Becca said:


> While is is not very good quality, there is a video of parts of Callas in Traviata which I recently found on YouTube. I will look for it and add the link to this post.


Thank you it was new to me. And as I saw Kraus as a very stylish Duke in Rigoletto about 20 years ago, I'm now claiming only 2 degress of separation from Maria!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Here's the good news, we are not a covey(sic) of grouches. We are likely all collective genius's(?)/genii(?)/SMART

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...and-noisy-eaters-might-make-you-a-genius.html


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