# HELDENTENOR TOURNAMENT (Round 1, Match 5): Lorenz vs Skelton



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Max Lorenz, Germany, 1901-1975






Stuart Skelton, Australia, 1968-






'Ein Schwert' from Wagner's _Die Walküre_.

Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Stuart Skelton appears to be one of those modern "heldentenors" (quotation marks necessary). His voice doesn't seem too small at least, but isn't baritonal in the way Lorenz's is and (probably) isn't quite as big. He sounds like he is straining lots of the time (thankfully no wobble) and has a slight nasality to his voice that I find rather unattractive here.

Max Lorenz, on the other hand, does justice to the music. An easy choice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Let me get something off my chest right away. Wagner did not instruct that “Wälse! Wälse!” be held until the tenor is blue in the face and in need of a ventilator. If you are Lauritz Melchior you can get away with it, but if you are Stuart Skelton you are merely hoping that people will forget the fact that you are a heldentenorino.

I admire Max Lorenz for avoiding this temptation, as well as for his strong voice, heroic timbre, sense of style, verbal acuity, and basically everything. I'm not always a fan of his sometimes wild and over-the-top vocalism, but here I find the musical/dramatic balance exemplary.

Stuart Skelton, one of today's leading exponents of Wagner's heldentenor roles, is, admittedly, better than Klaus Florian Vogt.

That's all.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Skelton could be worse. He is largely wobble free, which is refreshing, but yes there are other issues with the voice.

Lorenz is at his best here. Lorenz seems to have a devoted fan base on YT that thinks he is better than a certain heldentenor, but I think that's crazy. The legato is not smooth enough, and the sound sometimes becomes harsh and unappealing, and that problem only worsened as time went on. In terms of ease of emission, the comparison with Urlus and that certain tenor leave him in the dust (in the comparison with Skelton, he comes out just fine). Still, in his prime it is a very solid voice capable of turning out exciting performances that probably would have been very enjoyable in the theater.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I'm generally not a fan of Max Lorenz - particularly later in his career, what Wooduck described as his "over-the-top" delivery is something that really grates on my nerves. But this is fairly early, and he avoids scenery-chewing.

Skelton is OK by 2021 standards, but he's no match for any number of his predecessors, including Lorenz.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I know little of this although it was my first Wagnerian opera and all I remember is the "Walse" as sung by many different tenors and never have I heard it taken as long as Skelton which makes me wonder if it wasn't just edging on obnoxious in holding a note overlong simply to impress (look at me!). Seems there is a point of dignity and beyond that it becomes show-offy.
Lorenz.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Stuart Skelton, one of today's leading exponents of Wagner's heldentenor roles, is, admittedly, better than Klaus Florian Vogt.
> 
> That's all.


Damned with faint praise indeed! :lol:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

No contest. Mr. Lorenz has the goods. These days, one could be happy to encounter Mr. Skelton as I did in the Hong Kong *Die Walküre*, but only because there's a dearth of proper Wagnerian singers, at least in my experience. Having heard Mr. Kozub recently, and Mr. Lorenz today, Mr. Skelton is small beer, though his voice is not uningratiating. Lorenz in this instance takes the prize.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> heldentenorino


Bravo!!! I should remember this new term.

Lorenz sounds quite "pushy" here, but in an appropriate and wonderful way, he really does justice to the music.

Skelton, on the other hand, just does not have anything to "push" with, his best effort being more lyrical passages but that's it. Not much core, he sounds damn underpowered and that awful "Wälse" is... ugh! Not something I'd wish to hear again, life's too short for that.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Damn! I voted for Skelton by mistake, so PLEASE subtract that vote and give it to Lorenz. 

Skelton sounds a bit better than some of today's so-called Heldentenors, but that's all he has in his favour. And I absolutely hated that ridiculous showing off on "Wälse! Wälse!". He needs a conductor with a strong hand.

Lorenz is fine, though I'd rather be hearing Vickers.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^ At least you didn't accidentally vote for a Tory.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> ^^^ At least you didn't accidentally vote for a Tory.


Heaven forbid! Unfortunately there seem to be an awful lot of other people "accidentally" voting for them. I learned recently that the term Tory is derived from a seventeenth century word meaning "outlaw, robber or brigand". So they are still living up to their name.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Heaven forbid! Unfortunately there seem to be an awful lot of other people "accidentally" voting for them. I learned recently that the term Tory is derived from a seventeenth century word meaning "outlaw, robber or brigand". So they are still living up to their name.


I had just looked it up out of curiosity and discovered the same thing. I think we need to revive the term over here.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

*Max is very superior here.* I have the Seattle Box Set (still unopened) and I'm negative surprised from the poor sound quality. (I still consider this box as a good collectible, but with such sound is only for my bookshelf.) This was a no contest poll.


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