# There is no "H" in Italian



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I know I have a reputation for being the "singers these days..." guy, so this time, I thought I'd go after a technical issue that was less era-specific. Overly aspirated fioratura has been a relatively common problem for most of recorded operatic history.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

for some reason, a lot of people have this idea that "that's how baroque is supposed to be sung"....no, it isn't. there's literally zero evidence to support that other than that singers (with bad technique) suddenly decided to brand it that way a few decades ago. in, say, 1940, bad technique and aspirated singing were still around, but none of the best singers would dream of singing that way and saying "come on guys! it's baroque!"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

It's not just baroque singers. There are moments when even great singers will aspirate grace notes or accidentals in much later composers. Puccini asks for quite a few little grace notes in _Vissi d'arte_. Many sopranos simply omit them and some, Tebaldi included, introduce a little aspirate to enable them to articulate the notes. Callas of course is exemplary.

That reminds me of a story Schwarzkopf told about when Callas was recording with Legge; I don't know what opera it was. Legge pointed out to Callas that she was singing H's. "Me? Never," she responded. But she listened to the playback and was appalled. "Record something without me for the rest of the day. I'm going to fix this." The next day, she was back in the studio and the H's had disappeared, which, Schwarzkopf said, was one of the most difficult things to do and was a perfect example of Callas's work ethic.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> *It's not just baroque singers. There are moments when even great singers will aspirate grace notes or accidentals in much later composers.* Puccini asks for quite a few little grace notes in _Vissi d'arte_. Many sopranos simply omit them and some, Tebaldi included, introduce a little aspirate to enable them to articulate the notes. Callas of course is exemplary.
> 
> That reminds me of a story Schwarzkopf told about when Callas was recording with Legge; I don't know what opera it was. Legge pointed out to Callas that she was singing H's. "Me? Never," she responded. But she listened to the playback and was appalled. "Record something without me for the rest of the day. I'm going to fix this." The next day, she was back in the studio and the H's had disappeared, which, Schwarzkopf said, was one of the most difficult things to do and was a perfect example of Callas's work ethic.


bingo. that's exactly the problem. even the greats messed it up sometimes. with that said, an occasional "I was trying to get the right vowel/consonant" is a little more forgivable than "me see fast notes, me sing like machine gun!" as many singers are prone to do (we both know who the worst offender is...)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Congrats to Barbieri for not aspirating, but the right notes would also be desirable.

Who on earth was that first woman? I didn't think anyone could equal Bartoli in freakishness.

Quasthoff's Hermann Prey send-up was hilarious.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

What on earth is Bartoli doing? The difference between her awkward, effortful, bizarre singing and Mantelli's natural, effortless, elegant singing couldn't be bigger. Mantelli sounds much more beautiful too, to be honest. I mean when people talk about how badly acoustic recordings mangle a signers tone quality, I think of sounds like those that Bartoli makes and wonder what her excuse is.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bartoli is a weird phenomenon. I think her natural voice is quite fine, and she's done some lovely things; I have a few of her recital discs and have enjoyed much of their content. But as a performer she's the very definition of mannerism. The aspirated, machine-gun coloratura is really quite impressive but too strange to be musical, and the physical contortions that accompany it are bizarre. One of a kind, and one too many.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Bartoli is a weird phenomenon. I think her natural voice is quite fine, and she's done some lovely things; I have a few of her recital discs and have enjoyed much of their content. But as a performer she's the very definition of mannerism. The aspirated, machine-gun coloratura is really quite impressive but too strange to be musical, and the physical contortions that accompany it are bizarre. One of a kind, and one too many.


Hahahaha! I tend to agree.

I only have one of her discs. It's called Opera Probita and has a picture of her dressed to look as if she was in Fellini's La Dolce Vita. Some of the slower music is meltingly beautiful but as she starts rattling off (never were words more appropriate) the fast stuff, the results are bizarre and actually un-musical. I'm reminded of Beecham's description of the harpsichord, "Two skeletons copulating on a tin roof".


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Pardon me for nit picking, but the H sound is found in the Tuscan dialect especially around Siena , where locals tend to substitute an actual aspirated H for G and a few other consonants . In Italy, it's known the la groggier Toscana "- the Tuscan throat .


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

superhorn said:


> Pardon me for nit picking, but the H sound is found in the Tuscan dialect especially around Siena , where locals tend to substitute an actual aspirated H for G and a few other consonants . In Italy, it's known the la groggier Toscana "- the Tuscan throat .


interesting. noted


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Hs in Italian are added to consonants C and G to “harden” the sound when followed by vowels E and I. For instance, Cherubino and ghirlanda.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Bartoli is a weird phenomenon. I think her natural voice is quite fine, and she's done some lovely things; I have a few of her recital discs and have enjoyed much of their content. But as a performer she's the very definition of mannerism. The aspirated, machine-gun coloratura is really quite impressive but too strange to be musical, *and the physical contortions that accompany it are bizarre.* One of a kind, and one too many.


Kind of a clown show. Lots of fun to watch.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Oops ! Damn autocorrect . It should be "la gorgia Toscana "], not "groggier ".


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