# Under Appreciated Traits of Great Singers



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I'll start with a few 
*Renee Fleming:* forget the top notes or the legato, that *chest voice*!
*Marilyn Horne:* apart from her pants roles, she was a top rate dramatic soprano (which is surprising, because the rest of the time she sounds like a contralto)
*Joan Sutherland:* 
1) anyone can sing some degree of coloratura, and many can sing fast, but Sutherland gave evenness and _line_ to the coloratura. 
2) the _heroic_ side of Sutherland's voice was under-utilized. gimme more Esclarmonde and Oberon.
*Lucia Popp:* best breath control of any singer I've ever seen
*Samuel Ramey:* a deep, dark, dramatic bass....but better coloratura than a bel canto soprano
*Shirley Verrett:* everything. she is basically what people thought Callas was, but did it all without harming her voice


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## Lensky (May 8, 2016)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> *Lucia Popp:* best breath control of any singer I've ever seen


Don't you forget Caballé?


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> *Shirley Verrett:* everything. she is basically what people thought Callas was, but did it all without harming her voice


Pray explain. I see people comparing Shirley to Callas all the time, even calling her the "black Callas". I fail to see why.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> Pray explain. I see people comparing Shirley to Callas all the time, even calling her the "black Callas". I fail to see why.


she sang everything from dramatic mezzo to dramatic coloratura soprano and had the necessary weight and agility to sing basically everything except Wagner and light soprano/mezzo coloratura. that's not to say that she did everything as well as Callas (ex: Callas's fiery declamation and fierce chest register are unrivaled by singers of ANY fach), but her diversity of roles was just as great, and she maintained vocal health until the end.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Lensky said:


> Don't you forget Caballé?


no, Caballe is second =)


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Any soprano (or in the case of Marilyn Horne, mezzo-soprano) who can master a superior trill. They are few and far between.
I don't think I can even name 10.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Any soprano (or in the case of Marilyn Horne, mezzo-soprano) who can master a superior trill. They are few and far between.
> I don't think I can even name 10.


1) Sutherland
2) Flagstad
3) Dessay
4) Callas
5) Sills
6) Popp
7) Ponselle

possibly
8) Moffo
9) Arroyo 
10) Hallstein

....I see what you mean, I had to do a quite a bit of digging for that XD

Edit: happy 1000th post


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

You can add one more: Magda Olivero


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Maybe not quite an "underappreciated trait," but...

Anna Netrebko -- I honestly think she must have one of the richest and most sensuous soprano voices ever recorded. Also, one of the most _even_ in that there are no register breaks whatsoever.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Maybe not quite an "underappreciated trait," but...
> 
> Anna Netrebko -- I honestly think she must have one of the richest and most sensuous soprano voices ever recorded. Also, one of the most _even_ in that there are no register breaks whatsoever.


in the right repertoire, yes. I wish she would go back to roles like this


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> You can add one more: Magda Olivero


I'm really going to have to listen to more of her. she is the ultimate example of a singer who all the most astute connoisseurs talk about, yet the general public has never heard of.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Sherrill Milnes -- great rhythmic sense and, when he had good direction, a wonderful actor.

Sumi Jo -- ideal voice for Gilda in _Rigoletto_ (I heard her on a couple Met broadcasts of that opera); it had purity and just the right "plaintive" quality for the character.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Samuel Ramey is essentially a basso cantabile, in other words, a pure Bass-baritone with great agilita and great top notes. I've listened to him perform "Sorge infausta una procella" on youtube and the top held G4 note is on the scale of my baritone high G4. But more than just high notes, he had a clean and articulate coloratura that rivals most Sopranos and Coloratura Mezzos.

Shirley Verrett is a basket case of "what if". She didn't go the full "La Callas" route but she did venture into operas and roles that would eventually be known as Callas staples -- Norma, Medea (French Medee), Aida, Alceste, Santuzza, Lady Macbeth (Probably one of her best roles honestly as a Soprano), and Tosca. And I disagree with her not harming her voice. By 1984, there was a big issue about whether or not her lower register could function anymore due to her taking on roles that probably weren't a fit for as she thought they'd be. Her grand performances of Lady Macbeth and Medea kinda left an impurity on her voice if that makes sense that she talks about in her autobiography released in 2003. In it she also talks about how Callas was a mentor to her and how she had one last chance to talk with la Divina before her unfortunate and untimely death.

Grace Bumbry on the otherhand, would be more like Callas than Verrett. Bumbry did Abigaille, Venus, Kundry, Norma, Tosca, Turandot(!!!), Carmen, Salome, Santuzza, Elisabeth, Ortrud, Gioconda. A gorgeous Dramatic Mezzo at it's core turned into an even bigger dramatic Soprano (with some abilities of agilty), just doesn't seem to get the recognition it deserves when compared to her black contemporaries -- Price, Arroyo, Norman, Battle, and even the self-proclaimed rival, Verrett. But out of all those wonderful divas, Bumbry really is the one you can compare to Callas on a repertoire and maybe even tempermental level.

Here's a leaving quote from Bumbry addressing her concerns of performing Norma, in 1988 (at age 50):

" 'Norma' is such a particular opera. But it needs everything to be right. I mean every tempo in the right place. I think no one has found all the correct tempi for 'Norma,' since Callas sang it with (Tullio) Serafin. I mean it: Most conductors choose all the wrong tempi."


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I do add Carlo Bergonzi, hardly anyone speaks about him any more, his voice was so superior in all thing he did, he knew his limits.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Mariella Devia for the excellence of her vocal technique and for maintaining that excellence to (and surely beyond) the age of 68 years:


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> she sang everything from dramatic mezzo to dramatic coloratura soprano and had the necessary weight and agility to sing basically everything except Wagner and light soprano/mezzo coloratura. that's not to say that she did everything as well as Callas (ex: Callas's fiery declamation and fierce chest register are unrivaled by singers of ANY fach), but her diversity of roles was just as great, and she maintained vocal health until the end.


Yes, that's right. Still, that is nowhere near enough to say she was "what people thought Callas was". Callas was a coloratura. Shirley definitely wasn't. She might have had enough agility and flexibility for roles such as Lady Macbeth or Norma, but was she an exemplary Amina or Lucia? Not even close. Did she kickstart her career singing Wagner alongside I Puritani ? I don't think so. 
Besides, Shirley's voice could only be described as luscious, velvety, rich..etc.. Things that people would hardly ever say about Maria, because obviously people always thought her voice was the exact opposite of those things. Callas' voice was steely and even shrill when necessary (in the best way), while Shirley's voice was smooth, plush and rounded.

Shirley's french diction is less than adequate tbh, As a french speaker I cringe at her "aux baisiiieuhhhh de l'aurore" because she tends to distort vowels, she does that in Italian too, but it's fairly less pronounced (But I still enjoy her greatly because of her beautiful voice.) Callas sounded more French/Italian than the respective Native singers. Shirley is a great singer, but she was not the extraordinary one-of-a-kind Musician that Callas was.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> *Lucia Popp:* best breath control of any singer I've ever seen
> voice


I think Lucia Popp, and Ingeborg Hallstein for that matter are being unfairly (to other singers) judged based on very few studio recordings in which they sound super-humanely perfect. The only live recording I could find of Ingeborg shocked me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> I think Lucia Popp, and Ingeborg Hallstein for that matter are being unfairly (to other singers) judged based on very few studio recordings in which they sound super-humanely perfect. The only live recording I could find of Ingeborg shocked me.


But her Four last songs and contributing to Mahler's fourth are out of this world.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> Yes, that's right. Still, that is nowhere near enough to say she was "what people thought Callas was". Callas was a coloratura. Shirley definitely wasn't. She might have had enough agility and flexibility for roles such as Lady Macbeth or Norma, but was she an exemplary Amina or Lucia? *Not even close. Did she kickstart her career singing Wagner alongside I Puritani ? I don't think so.*


great way to ruin your voice right there 
even if we include this though, Verrett also ventured deeper into the mezzo/contralto repertory, singing many of the same roles as Marilyn Horne, which Callas would never have touched.



> Besides, Shirley's voice could only be described as luscious, velvety, rich..etc.. Things that people would hardly ever say about Maria, because obviously people always thought her voice was the exact opposite of those things. Callas' voice was steely and even shrill when necessary (in the best way), while Shirley's voice was smooth, plush and rounded.


this is a fair assessment



> Shirley's french diction is less than adequate tbh, As a french speaker I cringe at her "aux baisiiieuhhhh de l'aurore" because she tends to distort vowels, she does that in Italian too, but it's fairly less pronounced (But I still enjoy her greatly because of her beautiful voice.) Callas sounded more French/Italian than the respective Native singers. Shirley is a great singer, but she was not the extraordinary one-of-a-kind Musician that Callas was.


that reminds me, I was going to add that

*Callas:* best French diction of any non-fluent singer to this day. she sounded better in French than either German or Italian hands down.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> great way to ruin your voice right there


:lol: worth it if it turns you into the greatest Opera legend of all time



> even if we include this though, Verrett also ventured deeper into the mezzo/contralto repertory, singing many of the same roles as Marilyn Horne, which Callas would never have touched.


Yes, because Shirley is actually a Mezzo. Of course she would venture deeper into Mezzo/Contralto repertoire than a Dramatic Coloratura Soprano would. All the more reason they are two radically different singers. Yes, their strengths and repertoires overlapped, but that's all there is to it.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

I honestly think Anna Netrebko would be good in the bel canto repertoire as well, just stay away from Norma, Lucia, Amina until she can develop better agility and a better tonal center on the top notes. It is a nice voice but it strikes me as a voice that likes to mimic other singers. For instance in that same aria you posted, it sounded like Renee Fleming with a mix of Angela Gheorgighu (on the top).


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

*clears throat* the following is not an attack on Anna Netrebko, but merely a detailed expalanation of why I disagree with the following statements and the fact that she is even mentioned here (the thread title says GREAT Singers.)
I do love Anna. Just not exactly for her singing. 


Bellinilover said:


> Maybe not quite an "underappreciated trait," but...
> 
> Anna Netrebko -- I honestly think *she must have one of the richest and most sensuous soprano voices ever recorded*. Also, one of the most _even_ in that there are no register breaks whatsoever.


That is, in my opinion, an overappreciated trait, and besides physical beauty and good acting, her only "asset", if an asset at all. 
She has a smokey small lyric sound, the kind of voice recordings are very kind to and which is easy on the non-connoisseur ears of the general public, ie as close as possible to "mainstream"/pop voices.

The timbre per se is (increasingly) insipid, muffled and "barky", and personally, I find it straight out boring. People describe the voice as colorful, to me it sounds monochromatic. Her high notes sound all exactly the same. She approaches every phrase exactly the same. It doesn't matter whether it's Norina, Mimi, or Lady Macbeth. It's all the same tiresome singing.
Excessive breathiness can hardly be described as beautiful. Not to mention she's no Ponselle, Tebaldi, or Cerquetti. 
Compare this : 



to this: 



I think it would make it easier to discern what is rich, sensuous and effortlessly beautiful from the muffled breathy microphone-friendly mess.



BaritoneAssoluto said:


> I honestly think Anna Netrebko would be good in the bel canto repertoire as well, just stay away from Norma, Lucia, Amina until she can develop better agility and a better tonal center on the top notes. It is a nice voice but it strikes me as a voice that likes to mimic other singers. For instance in that same aria you posted, it sounded like Renee Fleming with a mix of Angela Gheorgighu (on the top).


You can't be a bel canto singer if you can't handle such roles. To be good in the bel canto repertoire is to have an insanely good technique and the whole bel-canto-necessary arsenal of tricks under your belt; hair raising stuff like this: 



 or this 



Bel canto, whether we like it or not, is all about vocal show-off. Netrebko can't even dream of delivering the bare minimum in that repertoire. 
Besides, one does not simply develop "better agility" once they're past their "school days", let alone after 45 and when you're heading in the wannabe dramatic direction.
That's the most positive statement I would ever make about her voice.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

I mean I was giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'm a Callas stan and wholeheartedly believe that if you're not brought up in the ways of the Bel Canto stylings and schooling, you are not only going to fail as an operatic singer but overall your musicality fails as a result.

But to be honest, that Joan Sutherland didn't help Bel Canto in the 60's and 70's. Even Callas stated "Sutherland and Bonyge have taken my work of Bel Canto back a 100 years!" which shows Joan only made it back to the canaries singing the arias like it has no other purpose but to be sung like some school girl with no emotion or no musicality.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Shirley wasn't naturally a mezzo-soprano though and only through happenstance did she become it (after using the mezzo-soprano aria "Mon Coeur souvre ta'voix in a competition and it got her high praises). And really Callas wasn't a dramatic coloratura Soprano but in essence a pure Soprano Assoluto -- with great high notes and an even greater command of agility that is unrivaled and unsurpassed by anyone today or even after she retired.

Though it speaks volumes when audiences call her "La nere Callas", regardless if you agree with them or not. They must've seen something her or heard something in her that spoke to them like Maria would to us.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Tuoksu said:


> *clears throat* the following is not an attack on Anna Netrebko, but merely a detailed expalanation of why I disagree with the following statements and the fact that she is even mentioned here (the thread title says GREAT Singers.)
> I do love Anna. Just not exactly for her singing.
> 
> That is, in my opinion, an overappreciated trait, and besides physical beauty and good acting, her only "asset", if an asset at all.
> ...


Okay; you're entitled to your opinion. I mean, we all hear things differently. But I've been listening to Anna Netrebko for most of her career and disagree with nearly every negative thing you say. _And that's the most I'll say about your post._


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

"Callas vs the World" controversies: they come as surely as the monsoons to India, the Winters to Scotland and the blooming of the cherry blossoms to Japan. Without them, the entire ecosystem would collapse.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> "Callas vs the World" controversies: they come as surely as the monsoons to India, the Winters to Scotland and the blooming of the cherry blossoms to Japan. Without them, the entire ecosystem would collapse.


Rest assured, I'm as guilty as anyone else. This statement is meant neutrally lol.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

But that just shows you what her impact was on the world of opera that 60 years after her death, we're STILL talking about how wonderful she was and what her voice and talents did for the world of Opera. As a baritone what she did for acting is as similiar to what Babe Ruth did for Baseball or Alfred Einstein did for Science. It's those achievements that we are ABLE to talk about opera in the manner we do today and for that, I thank her and wouldn't wish it any other way .


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> she sang everything from dramatic mezzo to dramatic coloratura soprano and had the necessary weight and agility to sing basically everything except Wagner and light soprano/mezzo coloratura. that's not to say that she did everything as well as Callas (ex: Callas's fiery declamation and fierce chest register are unrivaled by singers of ANY fach), but her diversity of roles was just as great, and she maintained vocal health until the end.


But that is not everything that Callas was.

EDIT: I see I'm late to this conversation. Sorry. I go now.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'll point out Lauritz Melchior's legato. He has such declamatory force, and that's so often called for in his usual repertoire, that his ability to produce a seamless legato is rarely noted. Once you start noticing it, it's impressive. Just listen to him in "Vesti la giubba" (sung in German). Then hear his Tristan and Frida Leider's wonderful Isolde drawing out the gorgeous lines of "O sink hernieder," and note how he brings a firm legato even to the later, passionate pages of the duet where most tenors just manage to get out the notes (_if_ they do).


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> But that is not everything that Callas was.
> 
> EDIT: I see I'm late to this conversation. Sorry. I go now.


hahahaha, no worries. I honestly wanted to say more myself until I realized the circles this conversation was going to go in


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Mariella Devia for the excellence of her vocal technique and for maintaining that excellence to (and surely beyond) the age of 68 years:


Cool though, not one of my favorites.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

*Maria Callas:* amazing French singing in general
*Elisabeth Schwarzkopf:* her middle register could be quite deep and opulent, almost dramatic soprano-y at times
*Birgitt Nilsson:* could sing high and light like a coloratura soprano. while not her normal rep, her Sleepwalking Scene is unsurpassed, especially that pianismo high Db!
*Joan Sutherland:* among the best Turandots on record. she gave the role warmth, femininity, a necessary ethereal quality which made her sound the way she was supposed to sound: like a mystical princess


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Carol Vaness: Had a creamy middle voice that is quite big and even comparable to most Mezzo-Sopranos. She wasn't one of those stuck up opera divas who felt the need to "protect" her "interest", but rather knew her own instrument and why it was created. She clearly understood that opera is more than just having a beautiful voice as evident in her interpretation of Bellini's _Norma_ "In mia man, alfin tuo sei...":


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

BaritoneAssoluto said:


> ...l or Alfred Einstein did for Science....


Minor detail, it is Albert Einstein. Alfred Einstein (Albert's cousin) was a well-known musicologist.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Becca said:


> Minor detail, it is Albert Einstein. Alfred Einstein (Albert's cousin) was a well-known musicologist.


Thanks for the correction. I felt like an idiot when I saw that.


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## BaritoneAssoluto (Jun 6, 2016)

Sherrill Milnes: A penetrating top register (High Abs, As, Bs, and Cs) for the more dramatic high Verdian Baritone and an even more impressive sense of tempi and timing. GREAT timing out of everyone I've heard (outside of Callas and Fischer-Dieskau) and one of the more impressive dramatic baritone/Verdian Baritone selective repertoire for any male. As per usual, I like to share videos of my examples in play so here it goes. Enjoy!











And if you really want your fix of Grand Italian Operatic Arias, look no further than this clip of Sherrill Milnes performing those arias in this clip here:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

*Birgit Nilsson:* could effortlessly transform into a light coloratura and toss of high, bright phrases like they were nothing. she even occasional employed pianissimi that rivaled Caballe!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> *Birgit Nilsson:* could effortlessly transform into a light coloratura and toss of high, bright phrases like they were nothing. she even occasional employed pianissimi that rivaled Caballe!


I've never heard any Nilsson coloratura that wasn't smeary and approximate. Do you have any examples showing her skill in this area?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I've never heard any Nilsson coloratura that wasn't smeary and approximate. Do you have any examples showing her skill in this area?


I mostly meant tessitura, timbre and weight, but she had reasonable coloratura on occasion


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

*Leona Mitchell * with Surta e la Notte Ernani involami Tutto sprezzo che d'Ernani
Wonderful voice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I mostly meant tessitura, timbre and weight, but she had reasonable coloratura on occasion


No trill... But yah, reasonable.  I'm glad she refused to do Norma.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> No trill... But yah, reasonable.  _I'm glad she refused to do Norma_.


if only more modern sopranos had the humility to do the same......


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> if only more modern sopranos had the humility to do the same......


We would have no Normas whatsoever then :lol:


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Four who stand out as far as "musicality" is concerned are Callas, Steber, Olivero, Radvanovsky.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Maria Chiara "Ebben? Ne andrò lontana" La Wally
Another one snowed under in the battle of the singers .


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> We would have no Normas whatsoever then :lol:


I think Christine Goerke does a decent Norma.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I think Christine Goerke does a decent Norma.


Sondra Radvanovsky seems to be outstanding ( also DiDonato) in the Met, can't wait for Saturday.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Pugg said:


> Sondra Radvanovsky seems to be outstanding ( also DiDonato) in the Met, can't wait for Saturday.


she doesn't have the vocal flexibility to sing it adequately imo. more of a Verdi voice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I'll start with a few
> *Renee Fleming:* forget the top notes or the legato, that *chest voice*!
> *Marilyn Horne:* apart from her pants roles, she was a top rate dramatic soprano (which is surprising, because the rest of the time she sounds like a contralto)
> *Joan Sutherland:*
> ...


Preach! That is the only word I wish to say but it won't let me;-)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tuoksu said:


> Yes, that's right. Still, that is nowhere near enough to say she was "what people thought Callas was". Callas was a coloratura. Shirley definitely wasn't. She might have had enough agility and flexibility for roles such as Lady Macbeth or Norma, but was she an exemplary Amina or Lucia? Not even close. Did she kickstart her career singing Wagner alongside I Puritani ? I don't think so.
> Besides, Shirley's voice could only be described as luscious, velvety, rich..etc.. Things that people would hardly ever say about Maria, because obviously people always thought her voice was the exact opposite of those things. Callas' voice was steely and even shrill when necessary (in the best way), while Shirley's voice was smooth, plush and rounded.
> 
> Shirley's french diction is less than adequate tbh, As a french speaker I cringe at her "aux baisiiieuhhhh de l'aurore" because she tends to distort vowels, she does that in Italian too, but it's fairly less pronounced (But I still enjoy her greatly because of her beautiful voice.) Callas sounded more French/Italian than the respective Native singers. Shirley is a great singer, but she was not the extraordinary one-of-a-kind Musician that Callas was.


She was a truly astounding Norma and Arsace, so I think that would qualify her for being a coloratura, or what do all of those notes mean. I think she holds her own with Horne as Arsace... and that is saying a LOT. She had a good high D, so she could have handled Armida if given a chance in her prime.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> She was a truly astounding Norma and Arsace, so I think that would qualify her for being a coloratura, or what do all of those notes mean. I think she holds her own with Horne as Arsace... and that is saying a LOT. She had a good high D, so she could have handled Armida if given a chance in her prime.


and Calbo, and Lady Macbeth, and Abigaille. Shirley Verrett is one of the best coloratura singers of the post war era.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> and Calbo, and Lady Macbeth, and Abigaille. Shirley Verrett is one of the best coloratura singers of the post war era.


I like the way you expressing yourself. :angel:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Jon Vickers

An artist with a superlative amount of honesty and integrity.

N.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

CHRISTINA DEUTEKOM "REGNAVA NEL SILENZIO"


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

James Morris, besides having a beautiful legato "line," has/had a great deal of pathos in his sound. For example...


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Pugg said:


> I do add Carlo Bergonzi, hardly anyone speaks about him any more, his voice was so superior in all thing he did, he knew his limits.


Well, except for that one time when he tried to sing Otello in a concert performance.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Well, except for that one time when he tried to sing Otello in a concert performance.







I've heard other singes male/ female/ made bigger mistakes and they thought they where the best in the world.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> I've never heard any Nilsson coloratura that wasn't smeary and approximate. Do you have any examples showing her skill in this area?


But she could sing a glorious pianissimo


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

I'm constantly astonished by the cleanness of Callas's line.
Her intonation was flawless and the way she moved from one note to the next was nearly always perfect.
The other singer who has this ability is Caballe.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

The only time I have heard Placido Domingo in the opera house was at Covent Garden a few years ago in _I Due Foscari_ (the night I was there was when the DVD was filmed). Well-appreciated traits like his timbre and acting were obvious but I was surprised that the feature that I noticed most was the elegance of his phrasing. I was not fully expecting this because I find some of his records a bit charmless despite being well sung. In performance, his keen sense of style meant that some of the other singers sounded a bit coarse or careless in comparison.

In addition, while records might emphasise the piercing, almost nasal quality of his voice, the primary characteristics I noticed instead were a noticeable smoothness and comfortable volume which you might not expect in his baritone roles given the reviews. I appreciate I may be in the minority, but I was extremely pleased with this baritonal venture and I certainly was not sitting there thinking 'I wish he had a darker voice'. I didn't miss any gravitas and I could not hear the much-reported weakness on the low notes. If the alternative was to be a manufactured darker tone or more effortful delivery to sound more 'baritonal' they can keep it.

P.S. As an aside, I'm so glad that the reviews did not appear/ I did not see them until the next day. The performance got pretty rotten reviews which even Domingo did not fully escape - I recall the critic thought Domingo should retire. Instead, I'm glad I saw him and can have my own opinion on his singing: all things considered, his performance was probably the best I've seen in person.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

well i didnt view these Singers. well i like them Diana Damrau and Cecilia Bartoli


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

damianjb1 said:


> I'm constantly astonished by the cleanness of Callas's line.
> Her intonation was flawless and the way she moved from one note to the next was nearly always perfect.
> The other singer who has this ability is Caballe.


hardly underrated, though.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Pugg said:


> hardly underrated, though.


True.
I'm speaking for myself here, but if I want to show someone Callas I normally go to the Tosca Act 2 (film), or the final scene of Norma.
And then I listen to Ah, Non Credea and time stops for the sheer simple perfection of it.
I'm working my way through the two big box sets that have come out in the last few years and my admiration for her grows the more I hear.
Even the very late recordings of Verdi arias have so much beauty in them because of her musicianship.
But as you say, not underrated.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Virginia Zeani's Dramatic Lucia J Mad Scene 2 London 1957


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Pugg said:


> Virginia Zeani's Dramatic Lucia J Mad Scene 2 London 1957


Zeani gets too little recognition. She was a superb singer and actress. Of course this mad scene is modeled very closely, inflection for inflection, on that of you-know-who, who was actually the one to "breathe new life into what had, until then, been considered a completely outmoded, old-fashioned work."


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

EXTREMELY RARE! LIVE: Elly Ameling sings R. Strauss' 4 LAST SONGS (COMPLETE) in 1982 - Concertgebouw

Elly" Ameling (born 8 February 1933) is a Dutch soprano.


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