# Ring Challenge - part 4 - Gotterdammerung - Discussion thread



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I have just uploaded a streamable version of a live performance of Gotterdammerung and have sent links to it via PM to those who have asked to participate. As before it is a live performance done since 1980 and chosen such that participants can listen and comment (hopefully) without preconceptions about the artists. I will post the performance details after everyone has had a chance to comment, but if you just can't wait to know, please PM me after you have posted here.

Should anyone else wish to join in, please let me know.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

A very very very fine Gotterdammerung. Exceptional artist conducting--he/she displays awesome control to have the band play quietly to let these essentially lyrical singers ring out over the band, but while still with exceptional detail and dynamic range. Unlike so many, he doesn't just play the notes on the score, but really shapes the musical phrases. I say he/she but I'm like 99% sure I know who this is, and this person is my favorite living Wagnerian in the pit.

The Brunnhilde sings the part very well, with big beautiful notes. I like her much better than the Brunnhilde we heard in the Siegfried challenge although I see a lot more praise for that Siegfried Brunnhilde performer around these parts than this one. 

This Siegfried is good. Of recorded Siegfrieds over the past few decades, only Jerusalem springs to mind as a significantly better performer in the role. He's a bit overparted, and he sounds oddly deliberate at times, like he has trouble getting the syllables out. Still, he actually sings the role and doesn't sound like he's struggling overmuch.

An excellent Alberich, but not too great a Hagen--he's probably the biggest weakness of the recording. He's actually a good singer with a good voice but he's not imposing or threatening enough for the role, he just sounds like a pleasant chap. The Gunther, Gutrune, and the two trios of ladies are all fine. The Waltraute I recognize as one of my favorites ever in the role.

Very good overall. I like it quite a bit more than many of the live and studio recordings from the 50s and 60s that often populate the recommendations threads.

eta - apparently I shouldn't be 99% sure of anything. Different conductor than I thought it was but my description stands!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

howlingfantods said:


> A very very very fine Gotterdammerung. Exceptional artist conducting--he/she displays awesome control to have the band play quietly to let these essentially lyrical singers ring out over the band, but while still with exceptional detail and dynamic range. Unlike so many, he doesn't just play the notes on the score, but really shapes the musical phrases. I say he/she but I'm like 99% sure I know who this is, and this person is my favorite living Wagnerian in the pit.
> 
> The Brunnhilde sings the part very well, with big beautiful notes. I like her much better than the Brunnhilde we heard in the Siegfried challenge although I see a lot more praise for that Siegfried Brunnhilde performer around these parts than this one.
> 
> ...


I largely agree with your assessment. I know the performance, and am particularly impressed with the conducting, the orchestral execution, and the tenor singing Siegfried. He does sound a bit overparted, and his vibrato occasionally threatens to turn to a wobble, but he's always musical and avoids the temptation to shout and bark. I've heard the Brunnhilde live in this role, and I will confess that I found her less impressive in the flesh.

The bass singing Hagen isn't actually a bass - he's more a bass-baritone in a part that calls for a darker colored voice, but I do like his slight Russian accent; it emphasizes that he comes from a different world.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Agree with what was written. A very, very fine Götterdämmerung. Those who were able to hear it live have been very lucky. Probably the greatest performance of the challenge, although I didn't find the time to listen to all the other performances entirely.

The best are orchestra & conducting. Rich sound, rich in details, lots of different colors. The conductor knows how and when to emphasize warm strings, like before Siegfried's death or when to go for the full sharp brass drama during the vengeance trio. He/she doesn't shy away from occasional bombast, but never gets boring. All that in good sound quality does indeed beat some of the old recordings. 

The singing has only one miscast and that is oddly neither Brünnhilde nor Siegfried, but Hagen. With Götterdämmerung having 8 (mezzo-)sopranos, one tenor, one contralto and one baritone around and no other bass but Hagen, you need at least one singer with a really dark voice, otherwise the whole thing is somewhat lopsided. Especially as Hagen mostly appears with Gunther. These two shouldn't sound the same. Here they do. The Brünnhilde is quite different from the Siegfried one. A more typical one with a darker and bigger voice better suited for Götterdämmerung. I would have problems imagining her in Siegfried. Siegfried does more singing than screaming which is more than what can be expected from so many other Siegfrieds.

I am very curious to learn which performance that was.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Surprised who turned out to be the conductor. Hadn't heard really convincing Wagner from him.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

interestedin said:


> Surprised who turned out to be the conductor. Hadn't heard really convincing Wagner from him.


He led a fantastic performance of Parsifal back in the 90s that I have a bootleg of -- it sounds like one of those tape recorder in the vest pocket bootlegs though, the sound is decidedly not good but you can tell he has a great feel for the music. Ever since I heard that, I've been wanting to hear more Wagner from him but I was a trifle disappointed by what he has released. This Gotterdammerung is terrific though.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Maybe I should revisit that not-so-long-ago Tristan...


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I have listened and, honestly, don't have much to say. It's, fine?

Brünnhilde may be the best of the bunch, though in the first act she is mostly just bright and powerful rather than clear with the text? The Immolation is better, though.

I don't particularly care for Siegfried's voice. Same with Hagen.

The conducting does not seem smooth, and that's really what threw me more than anything.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I listened to most of the Goetterdaemerung yesterday (but I'm afraid I couldn't manage to get through the whole of it).

My main impression with this recording was that the conducting was so prosaic as to be dull. It meanders along as one continuous line of sound like a well oiled vehicle taking us on a tour of the motives without letting us experience the highs and lows of the score. And on the left you will see the World's Inheritance motif, as we seamlessly move onto the next section on your right... Ultimately I felt as there I was only observing the music rather than _experiencing_ it!

I quite liked the Gunther and Gutrune and the Norns were ok, however I couldn't get to grips with the Siegfried and Bruenhilde and although I liked some of the way Hagen interpreted the text there wasn't enough menace or authority here.

All in all this was entirely underwhelming, but it was the snoozy conducting that prevented me from getting all the way to the end of the recording.

N.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If there was ever any doubt about just how differently we all perceive performances, consider these - and they don't represent any judgment on my part...

_"the conducting was so prosaic as to be dull. It meanders along as one continuous line of sound like a well oiled vehicle taking us on a tour of the motives without letting us experience the highs and lows of the score"

"The conducting does not seem smooth, and that's really what threw me more than anything. "

"The best are orchestra & conducting. Rich sound, rich in details, lots of different colors. The conductor knows how and when to emphasize warm strings, like before Siegfried's death or when to go for the full sharp brass drama during the vengeance trio. He/she doesn't shy away from occasional bombast, but never gets boring."

"Exceptional artist conducting--he/she displays awesome control to have the band play quietly to let these essentially lyrical singers ring out over the band, but while still with exceptional detail and dynamic range. Unlike so many, he doesn't just play the notes on the score, but really shapes the musical phrases."_


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