# First Xmas Contest: Schubert's Ave Maria. Pavarotti, Vaughan, Schwarzkopf



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Two opera singers and someone who to me sounded like an opera singer.




Schubert: Ave Maria, D. 839 (Arr. Gamley) · Luciano Pavarotti · National Philharmonic Orchestra · Kurt Herbert Adler 




By Franz Schubert (1797-1828) Recorded Jan. 17, 1951. New York. with Norman Leyden Orchestra. 




Ave Maria, Op. 52 No. 6, D. 839 (Live) · Elisabeth Schwarzkopf


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Pavarotti is not available here in the UK and I'm having difficulty finding the same version elsewhere on the site.

Ah, found it. It seems the order you put keywords into youtube's search facility affects what comes up.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The Pavarotti is not available here in the UK and I'm having difficulty finding the same version elsewhere on the site.
> 
> Ah, found it. It seems the order you put keywords into youtube's search facility affects what comes up.


I am fine with the fact that since Shaughnessy started my new routine this is the first issue we have run into. I'll be more careful of the input I give you. Thanks for doing the legwork.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am fine with the fact that since Shaughnessy started my new routine this is the first issue we have run into. I'll be more careful of the input I give you. Thanks for doing the legwork.


There's no way to be 100% certain with licensing issues - there are no clues as to when a problem may arise and this is why adding the info under each embedded video is so important - Kudos to you for taking the time to provide this much detail as it certainly helps.

Schubert: Ave Maria, D. 839 (Arr. Gamley) · Luciano Pavarotti · National Philharmonic Orchestra · Kurt Herbert Adler

Every so often, one of Tsaraslondon's videos are unavailable in the US and vice versa with the rest of us - With the printed info, we can each find an alternative that is licensed in our respective countries.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

By and large I prefer my Schubert _Ave Maria_ messed around as little as possible and, seeing as Schwarzkopf is the only one to sing it with the original piano accompaniment and in the original German, she has a head start, at least as far as I'm concerned. She also sings as if the prayer actually means something to her, and uses just the right amount of rubato. A beautiful performance

I love Sarah Vaughan's voice but I don't like what she does with this, either the arrangement or her more jazzy style. The Pavarotti is innocuous enough, but he doesn't do that much with it.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Pavarotti's version isn't available, but I'm already familiar with it.

Vaughn is interesting, this is good singing and it's a gorgeous voice. I've said it before, but I don't like this piece in latin. English is a better, but not by much. Mmmmm, I like this, but it's such a style all of its own that it reminds me of Patti's Voi che sapete.

I'm thinking that Schwarzkopf will walk this, will it be the Schubert Lied in German? Yes, it is! But now I'm in a quandary. I think the classic Schubert song has been sung better by others (Ludwig and Studer).

I'm going with Vaughn (although I will probably be alone in that).

N.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> I think the classic Schubert song has been sung... by others (Ludwig and Studer).
> 
> I'm going with Vaughn (although I will probably be alone in that).
> 
> N.


Marian Anderson's 78 was well-loved.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Sarah Vaughan is wonderful and made this interesting despite being far from idiomatic. I don’t care, I enjoyed it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Just like with Jeff Buckley last year who won the Corpus Christi Carol contest I have been surprised by how well you guys have embraced my occasional left field contestant. Vaughn could have sung opera but probably did better doing what she did. She had one of those very very rare true contralto voices, just like Mahalia Jackson. You don't get to be the diva singing contralto so she likely made much more money doing what she did. She had an exceptional range for a pop singer, going up into the soprano range..


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I just heard Josh Groban's Schubert Ave Maria and it is as gorgeous as is Barbra Streisand's. I highly recommend these two. They are extraordinary. Much more classical in style than pop.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

When you introduce the Divine Miss Sarah you start trouble for me. Unfortunately hers is only in English and I am adamant that my Ave Marias be in Latin. But she, of the 3, has the most gorgeous voice sound.
I cannot vote for Schwarzkopf because it is in German and that language takes away a certain sentiment from the beauty of the piece.
I am not normally a Pavarotti fan for the reason that he lacks passion in his voice, but with this psalm done in Latin by him, I find it more than acceptable, so my vote goes to Luciano.
(Just give me Lanza and I am happy.)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I couldn't listen to Sarah Vaughn past the first two lines. Did she _actually_ need a _breath_ between "Ave" and "Maria"? Holy mother of god...  

Pavarotti is Pavarotti. The most OK of great tenors. Or is that Domingo?

Guess who that leaves?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> When you introduce the Divine Miss Sarah you start trouble for me. Unfortunately hers is only in English and I am adamant that my Ave Marias be in Latin. But she, of the 3, has the most gorgeous voice sound.
> I cannot vote for Schwarzkopf because it is in German and that language takes away a certain sentiment from the beauty of the piece.
> I am not normally a Pavarotti fan for the reason that he lacks passion in his voice, but with this psalm done in Latin by him, I find it more than acceptable, so my vote goes to Luciano.
> (Just give me Lanza and I am happy.)


Say! What happened? I saw that Shaunessy voted for 2 so I thought I could too. I voted for Vaughan but my vote for Pav went away.
What gives? I thought we could vote for 2. I never did i before so I don't know the rules. Is it yes, or no (or just at whim?)


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I couldn't listen to Sarah Vaughn past the first two lines. Did she _actually_ need a _breath_ between "Ave" and "Maria"? Holy mother of god...
> 
> Pavarotti is Pavarotti. The most OK of great tenors. Or is that Domingo?
> 
> Guess who that leaves?


It's called jazz improvising and if you notice she didn't do it the second time. If you are not into Jazz you actually are probably better off not voting for her, gorgeous voice and all.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> It's called jazz improvising and if you notice she didn't do it the second time. If you are not into Jazz you actually are probably better off not voting for her, gorgeous voice and all.


In jazz it's called jazz improvising. In Schubert it's called stylistic irrelevancy and ineptness.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> I cannot vote for Schwarzkopf because it is in German and that language takes away a certain sentiment from the beauty of the piece.


This would come as a shock to Schubert, who composed the song to a German poem.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Say! What happened? I saw that Shaunessy voted for 2 so I thought I could too. I voted for Vaughan but my vote for Pav went away.
> What gives? I thought we could vote for 2. I never did i before so I don't know the rules. Is it yes, or no (or just at whim?)


Sometimes if I think the vote will be close I make it so you can vote for two if you can't make up your mind. I forget if I did on this but


Woodduck said:


> I couldn't listen to Sarah Vaughn past the first two lines. Did she _actually_ need a _breath_ between "Ave" and "Maria"? Holy mother of god...
> 
> Pavarotti is Pavarotti. The most OK of great tenors. Or is that Domingo?
> 
> Guess who that leaves?


Almost all pop singers including Ella are poor at phrasing their breaths. Christmas carols are awful at showing this up. Streisand ( the best), Josh Groban and Linda Ronstadt are among the very few who breathe when you are supposed to to make sense of a phrase. Actually Streisand holds notes as long and sings long phrases without breaths the way the very best opera singers do. You rarely ever see an opera star hold a note longer than 20 sec and Streisand has done that.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> This would come as a shock to Schubert, who composed the song to a German poem.


Perhaps I needed to add "language when sung or spoken" rather than read. But then this is only my subjective opinion and doesn't count for much more than to me.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> Say! What happened? I saw that Shaunessy voted for 2 so I thought I could too. I voted for Vaughan but my vote for Pav went away.
> What gives? I thought we could vote for 2. I never did i before so I don't know the rules. Is it yes, or no (or just at whim?)


When he created the poll, SOF checked off "Maximum selectable responses" and set it at "2", "Allow voters to change their votes", "Display votes publicly", and "Allow the results to be viewed without voting".

What you need to do to change your vote - Click on "Change vote" - Place a checkmark in the boxes next to both Pavarotti and Vaughn" - Click on "Cast vote" - and you'll see your two votes.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> When he created the poll, SOF checked off "Maximum selectable responses" and set it at "2", "Allow voters to change their votes", "Display votes publicly", and "Allow the results to be viewed without voting".
> 
> What you need to do to change your vote - Click on "Change vote" - Place a checkmark in the boxes next to both Pavarotti and Vaughn" - Click on "Cast vote" - and you'll see your two votes.


Thanks. This is a first for me (and likely a last). I don't like voting for 2.


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