# How far can you make it?



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Silly thread I just had to post after clicking on this:




I made it 13 seconds and felt too embarrassed for Bocelli to continue. I know it's not fair to hold him to any kind of real operatic standards but by that same measure he shouldn't be trying to sing Pour Mon Ame


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

34 for me........


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I won't even try. I can't stand him, not a single second. It's Friday, it would ruin my weekend! I don't want to throw up.
Worst of all is that a friend of mine, knowing about my opera passion, gave me as a birthday gift a DVD of one of the recitals of "opera singer" Andrea Bocelli. I had to control my facial expression to be able to say "how thoughtful, oh wow, great, thank you so much!"


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

You're a good friend Almaviva


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

12 seconds. I thought I was going to explode. I hadn't realised he was SO APPALLING.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Bochornelli?*

I gladly would hire him in order to clean up my house...I don't remember...I think he's blind...Isn't he?...oh...I have forgotten it. Does he cook well, at least? Some pasta?

Martin, curious.

P.S. _Bochorno_ is a Spanish word for shame or something like that.


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## Lipatti (Oct 9, 2010)

So most of you guys didn't even hear his attempts at those high Cs? Good for you :tiphat:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Bad, bad choice - not that the blue-rinse brigade will care all that much.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I need an antidote, faaaaaast:






Even a 59 years old Kraus can do a lot better!!!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> 12 seconds. I thought I was going to explode. I hadn't realised he was SO APPALLING.


To be fair (and mind you, I'm no fan of his), I think this was a particularly bad day for him to sing an aria that is particularly beyond his skill set. He's not actually quite as terrible as this makes him out to be.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> To be fair (and mind you, I'm no fan of his), I think this was a particularly bad day for him to sing an aria that is particularly beyond his skill set. He's not actually quite as terrible as this makes him out to be.


You're guilty of having clicked on his clip in the first place!:devil:


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I have learned my lesson, believe me.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

I am watching the whole thing because i can't not hear those c's....
it's pretty atrocious but at least he gets up to the c's, more than most can say.
sounded overall lazy though, i can't stand him


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I actually made it to 1:12 :lol: But it was more out of curiosity and fascination. (I'm one of those who love to watch American Idol and such shows to have a laugh about contestants who can't sing) I can stand to hear people sing badly but I had to give up after the first few high Cs.
I had little respect for Bocelli to start with but when I read that he made the choice to do crossover because he was "lazy" I had no respect left. sorry.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

OK, here is the perfect antidote:


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

I listen to that all the time


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

It didn't seem that bad at all to me :X

Maybe not Pavarotti-esque, but I thought he could still sing it...


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Ravellian said:


> It didn't seem that bad at all to me :X
> 
> Maybe not Pavarotti-esque, but I thought he could still sing it...


I was discussing this aria via email with my mom, who is a very casual opera fan (i.e., owns no recordings and likely would never go to an opera on her own, but will happily attend if someone wants her to go with them and knows the names of several current singers), and she had kind of a similar reaction

My email:
_Just an interesting comparison
JDF singing the same portion of the aria (last portion, only a couple minutes in length) in a similar setting as the Bocelli link below (as always, choose the highest quality possible at the bottom right of the video):





And Bocelli:





Were you able to make it all the way through? _

Her reply

_Listened to JDF first and then AB. JDF obviously better, but not striking. Then I immediately replayed JDF again and it was astoundingly better. Like listening to Pavarotti after Paul Potts...._

See if you don't have the same reaction listening to them in that order. I chose those two links as they are the most similar in presentation (just the Pour Mon Ame portion, and in a concert setting with only a piano as accompaniment).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I think Bocelli sounds like a labrador trying to bark the tune.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> See if you don't have the same reaction listening to them in that order


You mean you want us to listen to it again?


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> You mean you want us to listen to it again?


It's my special torture for those who refuse to acknowledge Natalie Dessay as the ne plus ultra. :devil: Save yourself, Alma - there's still time to repent!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

OK, I found something very interesting on YouTube: David Gilmour (former Pink Floyd) singing _Je crois entendre encore._ To tell you the truth, I liked it a lot. He is not an operatic singer, obviously, but I think his rendition was interesting and well arranged.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Bravo! Bravo!*



> I think Bocelli sounds like a labrador trying to bark the tune.


Martin, clapping my hands


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Pink Floyd being my favourite band and Gilmour favourite member (no, not Waters, not even Barret) I'm so glad to see that people appreciate him!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

graaf said:


> Pink Floyd being my favourite band and Gilmour favourite member (no, not Waters, not even Barret) I'm so glad to see that people appreciate him!


Oh, I love Pink Floyd as well, and like you, Gilmour has always been my favorite. I saw him live once, and it was quite an experience!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Pink Floyd...I remember the Wall...it was great...Oldy now.

Martin


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Oh, I love Pink Floyd as well, and like you, Gilmour has always been my favorite. I saw him live once, and it was quite an experience!


Ditto. Saw Gilmour Floyd in Kansas City in 1994, great show. Had the chance to see Roger Waters in Omaha last year but the gal I wanted to ask out turned me down :lol:
Didn't feel like going alone, and all my friends are old, married, and boring, so...

And for the record, Roger Waters > David Gilmour. But this is definitely a case where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. DSotM is perhaps *the* most important work in the entire rock genre.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Ditto. Saw Gilmour Floyd in Kansas City in 1994, great show. Had the chance to see Roger Waters in Omaha last year but the gal I wanted to ask out turned me down :lol:
> Didn't feel like going alone, and all my friends are old, married, and boring, so...
> 
> And for the record, Roger Waters > David Gilmour. But this is definitely a case where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. DSotM is perhaps *the* most important work in the entire rock genre.


Well, sure, Roger Waters is a better composer and musician and more creative than Gilmour, who is on the other hand a better performer, in my opinion.

If your friends are boring, why do you befriend them?:lol:

About the gal - good riddance. If she doesn't like Pink Floyd, then it was good that she turned you down.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Well, sure, Roger Waters is a better composer and musician and more creative than Gilmour, who is on the other hand a better performer, in my opinion.
> 
> If your friends are boring, why do you befriend them?:lol:
> 
> About the gal - good riddance. If she doesn't like Pink Floyd, then it was good that she turned you down.


They didn't used to be boring. I think it's kids that do it to people.

Well she liked Pink Floyd, she just didn't like me


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

rgz said:


> Had the chance to see Roger Waters in Omaha last year but the gal I wanted to ask out turned me down :lol:


Her loss not yours



rgz said:


> Didn't feel like going alone ...


Going alone is better than not going. I was apprehensive when I first ventured alone through the hallowed portals of ROH but not now.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> They didn't used to be boring. I think it's kids that do it to people.
> 
> Well she liked Pink Floyd, she just didn't like me


Hey! I have kids and I'm not boring!!!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

The exception that proves the rule


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I've just played again the Gilmour clip... I really like it. I wonder what the surely opera-naïve audience thought of it. Probably they found it to be very beautiful (and it is) and would be surprised to know that it comes from an opera.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

I think that Gilmour "saved" Pink Floyd name by spliting with Waters. Don't know how you may feel about Waters' albums after Pink Floyd, but I see them as something completely out of track with "Floyd tradition". For example, I would say that A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell are more "floydian" than The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, Radio KAOS or Amused to Death, which seem to be kind of a therapy for Waters and his childhood problems, absence of his father and pressing influence of mother. Even last PF albums were under the this spell; but while The Wall had it packaged as real art, in Final Cut it was already too obvious.

What I am trying to say is that even if we say that all art comes from "neurosis", it can still be presented in more or less artistic way - it is one thing to make an album, or an opera, or even a novel which is product of neurosis, but has some kind of universal value that one can relate to, but completely another to sit down and write autobiography of one's problems. I can relate to his song Mother on album The Wall, but not to songs from his later albums.

Although I do admit that non-Waters PF albums lack "concept".

Please understand that English is not my native language so I couldn't express my self fully, so while I'd like a response, I wouldn't like to see someone clinging to every word I wrote - I couldn't be more precise than I was.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

graaf said:


> I think that Gilmour "saved" Pink Floyd name by spliting with Waters. Don't know how you may feel about Waters' albums after Pink Floyd, but I see them as something completely out of track with "Floyd tradition". For example, I would say that A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell are more "floydian" than The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, Radio KAOS or Amused to Death, which seem to be kind of a therapy for Waters and his childhood problems, absence of his father and pressing influence of mother. Even last PF albums were under the this spell; but while The Wall had it packaged as real art, in Final Cut it was already too obvious.
> 
> What I am trying to say is that even if we say that all art comes from "neurosis", it can still be presented in more or less artistic way - it is one thing to make an album, or an opera, or even a novel which is product of neurosis, but has some kind of universal value that one can relate to, but completely another to sit down and write autobiography of one's problems. I can relate to his song Mother on album The Wall, but not to songs from his later albums.
> 
> ...


Your English seems just fine to me. You said it beautifully.
Yes, I grew tired of Waters' endless repetition of this take - although I think The Wall makes more reference to Barret's problems, doesn't it? I don't know very well, I love their music but I'm not an expert in their biography.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> The exception that proves the rule


Hm... Natalie (mamascarlatti) has kids and is not boring.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> Hm... Natalie (mamascarlatti) has kids and is not boring.


He he, I though I might defend myself but then I realised that instead of partying I spend every evening "talking" on this contraption to you lot.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Your English seems just fine to me. You said it beautifully.
> Yes, I grew tired of Waters' endless repetition of this take - although I think The Wall makes more reference to Barret's problems, doesn't it? I don't know very well, I love their music but I'm not an expert in their biography.


I believe the standard view is that Wish You Were Here is essentially a long ode to Barret, whilst The Wall is a much more personal story about Roger Waters's experiences as a child and a rock star.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Hm... Natalie (mamascarlatti) has kids and is not boring.


I think the idea is that once the kids move out of the house, one can become non-boring again. But, and this is based soley on anecdotal evidence, it seems that if you have young children at home that you necessarily become boring as you are constantly too tired to actually ever do anything.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I think the idea is that once the kids move out of the house, one can become non-boring again. But, and this is based soley on anecdotal evidence, it seems that if you have young children at home that you necessarily become boring as you are constantly too tired to actually ever do anything.


Natalie is a late mom-bloomer. She has young kids at home. Mine, on the other hand, are gone, so I guess I'm back to being non-boring. Some people might differ, though... I guess my Anna obsession *is* boring...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I believe the standard view is that Wish You Were Here is essentially a long ode to Barret, whilst The Wall is a much more personal story about Roger Waters's experiences as a child and a rock star.


But Waters didn't plunge into schizophrenia like Barret, and the main character in The Wall seems to be on the verge of psychosis. Anyway, I guess you're right; like I said, I have stopped following the ins and outs of their biographies.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Hm... Natalie (mamascarlatti) has kids and is not boring.


I don't suppose Anna is boring either & she's got a little 'un.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I don't suppose Anna is boring either & she's got a little 'un.


Don't remind me that she is not available!:scold:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*I*

I didn't like Anna in La Bohème...She's kind of ordinary..Just her bo...are wow!

Martin


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

Well... at least he got up to those High C's?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

OK, to put things in perspective - and to put poor David Gilmour on his place (although I do like him a lot) - let's listen to the same aria with Placido Domingo:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Well, sure, Roger Waters is a better composer and musician and more creative than Gilmour, who is on the other hand a better performer, in my opinion.


Gilmour is definetely a better musician (ie better at playing his instrument) than Waters. Waters does excell in the conceptualization/creative dept. as you mentioned.


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## scytheavatar (Aug 27, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I've just played again the Gilmour clip... I really like it. I wonder what the surely opera-naïve audience thought of it. Probably they found it to be very beautiful (and it is) and would be surprised to know that it comes from an opera.


That's the problem with Pink Floyd post Waters: Gilmour's a beautiful musician, but he's playing rock, not classical music. Waters was the one who added the grit to Pink Floyd that made them much more emotionally powerful than many of their overpolished prog rock peers of the 70's. Without him they are just yet another boring guitar/keyboard mashing setup. Waters wasn't wrong to say that Pink Floyd was a spent force when he left them, but so too was Genesis, Yes and all of their peers. Their era was over already, and it took the new generation of prog rock artists (Porcupine Tree, Riverside, Spock's Beard etc) to revive the genre.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

tdc said:


> Gilmour is definetely a better musician (ie better at playing his instrument) than Waters. Waters does excell in the conceptualization/creative dept. as you mentioned.


Maybe I chose poorly my words, but when I said performer, I meant that Gilmour plays his instrument well. I think we agree, it's just that I didn't say it properly.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh, dear . . . I won't even attempt it. What I find truly disturbing are the number of major opera houses of late that are allowing this man on their stages - the Wiener Staatsoper and the Met are two that come to mind. Granted, his appearances at these houses appear to be as concerts; he isn't being engaged for roles in any operas. But I'm afraid such appearances lend legitimacy to efforts by his promoters and at least some of his fans to pass him off as a bona fide opera singer -- something he is not and never has been.

As a side note, I'm a newcomer to this forum. I've very much enjoyed reading all of the other members' posts. This is going to become addictive . . .


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

MAuer said:


> Oh, dear . . . I won't even attempt it. What I find truly disturbing are the number of major opera houses of late that are allowing this man on their stages - the Wiener Staatsoper and the Met are two that come to mind. Granted, his appearances at these houses appear to be as concerts; he isn't being engaged for roles in any operas. But I'm afraid such appearances lend legitimacy to efforts by his promoters and at least some of his fans to pass him off as a bona fide opera singer -- something he is not and never has been.
> 
> As a side note, I'm a newcomer to this forum. I've very much enjoyed reading all of the other members' posts. This is going to become addictive . . .


A very warm welcome MAuer from a bona fide opera addict. There are many poor souls here who are similarly afflicted so you'll feel right at home.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Welcome MAuer, come and vote, look forward t reading yur coributios. 

And yes, it is addictive, it's 6.45am and I'm checking out new posts.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Maybe I chose poorly my words, but when I said performer, I meant that Gilmour plays his instrument well. I think we agree, it's just that I didn't say it properly.


Thats what I thought you meant, just clarifying. Anyway not intending to derail the topic here. Im quietly lurking and educating myself on opera a little before I chime in more.  Carry on!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

MAuer said:


> Oh, dear . . . I won't even attempt it. What I find truly disturbing are the number of major opera houses of late that are allowing this man on their stages - the Wiener Staatsoper and the Met are two that come to mind. Granted, his appearances at these houses appear to be as concerts; he isn't being engaged for roles in any operas. But I'm afraid such appearances lend legitimacy to efforts by his promoters and at least some of his fans to pass him off as a bona fide opera singer -- something he is not and never has been.
> 
> As a side note, I'm a newcomer to this forum. I've very much enjoyed reading all of the other members' posts. This is going to become addictive . . .


Oh wow, it's good to have another member interested in opera joining our forum. Welcome, it's been fun and the more contributors, the more fun we'll all have.


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## Sistersheila (Jan 16, 2011)

Like MAuer, I am new to this forum, although a longtime lurker. The answer is not long, of course, but I while searching for a download of "Au fond du temple saint," I discovered David Byrne's version. Egad! The worst thing I have heard since the Sarah Brightman ads for some CD on which she apparently tried her hand at opera. Any suggestions as to what I next listen in order to cleanse my ears?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Sistersheila said:


> Like MAuer, I am new to this forum, although a longtime lurker. The answer is not long, of course, but I while searching for a download of "Au fond du temple saint," I discovered David Byrne's version. Egad! The worst thing I have heard since the Sarah Brightman ads for some CD on which she apparently tried her hand at opera. Any suggestions as to what I next listen in order to cleanse my ears?


Welcome to active membership, ex-lurker!:tiphat:

Try this, from the same opera (but in Italian version):


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Sistersheila said:


> Like MAuer, I am new to this forum, although a longtime lurker. The answer is not long, of course, but I while searching for a download of "Au fond du temple saint," I discovered David Byrne's version. Egad! The worst thing I have heard since the Sarah Brightman ads for some CD on which she apparently tried her hand at opera. Any suggestions as to what I next listen in order to cleanse my ears?


Welcome Sistersheila. I don't know David Byrne but I certainly can sympathise about Sarah Brightman. I had an opera compilation from the library on the other day and everything was going tickety-boo until I got startled out of my happy reverie by her "singing opera" and had to make a mad dash to the CD payer to skip the track.


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## Sistersheila (Jan 16, 2011)

Thank you for the welcomes. One may have complaints against the Catholic Church, but you have to admire the authoritativeness and taste of the late archbishop of NYC, Francis Spellman, who, I once read, told the Kennedy family and Andy Williams that Williams could NOT sing the Shubert Ave Maria at RFK's funeral because he was not an operatic tenor.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Hello Sistersheila & welcome to the forum

You'll find lots of goodies in the YouTube thread to clean out your ears :lol:


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Sistersheila said:


> Thank you for the welcomes. One may have complaints against the Catholic Church, but you have to admire the authoritativeness and taste of the late archbishop of NYC, Francis Spellman, who, I once read, told the Kennedy family and Andy Williams that Williams could NOT sing the Shubert Ave Maria at RFK's funeral because he was not an operatic tenor.


Oh, how I wish owners/managers of local retail establishments would follow Cardinal Spellman's example during the weeks preceding Christmas. It seems one can't enter a mall, book shop, or other store during December without one's ears being assaulted by some pop singer's rendition of either the Schubert "_Ave Maria_" or the Cantique de Noel.


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## wirorg (Feb 17, 2016)

Bocelli is ok; he takes all high Cs; he sings confidently. Ok, that's not a Pavarotti timbre, but he does sing well.
Moreover, he is a crossover artist.

Here's a russian pop-artist singing "O mio babbino". A true pornography. :devil:




I don't see anything disturbing in Bocelli after this :angel:


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