# What are the ideal works to introduce someone to classical music?



## memewaffle (Apr 17, 2017)

I was thinking Tchaikovsky Serenade in C major, Grieg Lyric pieces, perhaps Beethoven piano sonatas-but I'd like some recommendations from you guys.


----------



## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

I think you will have a hard time generating a list that works for all. What is the musical background of the people you want to introduce to classical music? And how old are they? 

In the case that they are metalheads/rock music (and especially progressive rock/metal) fans I would pick Messiaen's "Apparition de l'église éternelle", Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" and Berg's "Three pieces for orchestra".

But in general, maybe pieces that "tells a story"? For example Also sprach Zarathustra, Pictures at an Exhibition or Scheherazade.


----------



## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Ravn said:


> I think you will have a hard time generating a list that works for all. What is the musical background of the people you want to introduce to classical music? And how old are they? (...)


My local classical radio station 'Klara' has developed a site called Klarafy that translates a pop/rock spotify playlist into a matching classical playlist.

https://klarafy.klara.be/nl/


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

My go-to works are Mussorgsky' Pictures at an Exhibition, Dvorak's New World Symphony, Barber's Adagio for Strings, or Holst: The Planets. Usually at least one of those will appeal to the person.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I am of the opinion you go for the greatest composers first. There is a reason they are popular and great because their works are more universal, that is, appealing to a greater worldwide audience. Once a person gets a composer it is often for life. Chasing after individual works might yield results or turn them off due to boredom. Also past musical habits are not predictive of what will appeal to newbie in the classical realm. IMHO of course.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

If someone is not moved by the slow movement of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto, it's safe to say that they just don't like music. Otherwise I would go for the "fast, exciting" stuff first - the finales of Moonlight and Appassionata, finale of Brahms 1st Piano Quartet, HIP performances of Brandenburgs, etc.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The Eroica symphony.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

MarkW said:


> The Eroica symphony.


Haha, good one. I think you need several years of classical music experience to appreciated the Eroica.

Many good choices already in this thread. I would add
Mozart Symphony 40 first movement
Sibelius Symphony 2 last movement
Bruckner Symphony 9 second movement
Rachmaninov Symphony 1 last movement
Beethoven String Quartet No 9 last movement
Smetana Ma Vlast
Borodin Symphony 2 first movement
Beethoven Moonlight Piano Sonata last movement
Shostakovich Symphony 8 second movement


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Haha, good one. I think you need several years of classical music experience to appreciated the Eroica.


It was actually the first complete Beethoven symphony I heard, and as a matter of fact, the first complete symphony by anyone I ever heard. I loved it right away, though it did take a couple years to fully understand in context of its innovation, etc. To this day it remains my second favorite Beethoven symphony after the 9th. I think the first movement is pretty irresistable to anyone.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> It was actually the first complete Beethoven symphony I heard, and as a matter of fact, the first complete symphony by anyone I ever heard. I loved it right away, though it did take a couple years to fully understand in context of its innovation, etc. To this day it remains my second favorite Beethoven symphony after the 9th. I think the first movement is pretty irresistable to anyone.


Oh, it's my favorite Beethoven symphony but it took me awhile to truly get into it. I think the lack of clear melodies and catchy harmonies may be what will take newcomers longer to appreciate.


----------



## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Usually people are quick to love Chopin and Impressionist music.


----------



## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

I would suggest any symphonies by Haydn, they are easy to listen to and sonata form is (IMO) still a great form of composition, in fact any work by Haydn is easily accessible.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I agree with Ravn. It really depends on who the person is. Their previous musical interests will determine what works for them. I think Beethoven symphonies are a good default.

As 20centrfuge mentioned, Holst's _The Planets_ is a good choice. I agree with some of Ravn's recommendations for those who like rock and would like to add Orff's _Carmina Burana_ to that list.

If the person wants music with singing, you could try Prokofiev's _Alexander Nevsky_. If they like things with pretty melodies, try something by Mozart.

Generally, I would pick excerpts or pieces that aren't very long. Good choices should typically be melodious and emotional. I wouldn't recommend something from before the Romantic Period unless there was some sign that the person would like that. Classical Period and Baroque Period pieces usually have less emphasis on emotion, and I think that can turn some people off because they find them "boring".

In most cases, you'll want to save very long pieces (e.g., Mahler), pieces with lots of ornamentation (e.g., Baroque Period pieces, some Classical Period pieces, most concertos), and opera (especially Wagner, although hopefully not for too long) for later, at least in my opinion.

Some other pieces I might reccomend are Nielsen's _Aladdin Suite_ and Tchaikovsky's _Nutcracker_.

If all else fails, try orchestral soundtracks. Even before I got into classical music, the _Star Wars_ soundtracks appealed to me.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Mozart Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Beethoven Symphony 5
J. Strauss An Der Schonen Blauen Donau
Holst The Planets
Vivaldi Le Quattro Stagioni
Bach Brandenburg No.3


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

These are probably the best for beginners:

Dvorak - New World Symphony
Bach - Brandenberg Concertos
Bach - The Art of Fugue
Penderecki - Dies Irae, Polymorphia, & De natura sonoris
Wagner - Gotterdammerung
Mozart - Symphony Nos. 40 & 41
Prokofiev - Piano Concertos 2 & 3
Bach - St. John Passion
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Beethoven - Piano Sonatas Nos. 8, 14 & 23
Stockhausen - Aus Den Sieben Tagen
Beethoven - Symphony Nos. 6 & 7
Gorecki - Symphony 3
Mahler - Symphony 4
Brahms - Symphony 4
Reich - Music for 18 Musicians


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Ravn said:


> I think you will have a hard time generating a list that works for all. What is the musical background of the people you want to introduce to classical music? And how old are they?
> 
> In the case that they are metalheads/rock music (and especially progressive rock/metal) fans I would pick Messiaen's "Apparition de l'église éternelle", Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" and Berg's "Three pieces for orchestra".


The Messiaen and Berg works would be guaranteed to send progressive rock and metal fans back to progressive rock and metal.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

We doin' this again?

Fine

*First 10*

Holst - The Planets, Op. 32. 1918
Dvorak - Symphony No.9 in E minor "From the New World", Op 95. 1893
Beethoven - Symphony No. 3 "Eroica"
Stravinsky - The Firebird. 1910	
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Festival Overture, Op. 49. 1882

Vivaldi - Summer, The Four Seasons. 1723
JS Bach - Brandenburg Concerto #6, In B Flat, BWV 1051. 1721.
WA Mozart - Symphony 41 in C "Jupiter", K. 551. 1788
Borodin - In the Steppes of Central Asia. 1880. 
WA Mozart - Overture from The Marriage of Figaro. 1786

*2nd 10*

Grieg - Peer Gynt: Suite No. 1, Op. 46, and Suite No. 2, Op. 55. (Original score, Op. 23). 1876 
Frederic Chopin - Polonaise Op. 53
Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition (Ravel orchestration). 1922
Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue 
Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring

Beethoven - Symphony No.5 in C minor, Op. 67. 1808 
JS Bach - Cello Suite No. 1 in G major, BWV 1007
Carl Orff - O Fortuna from Carmina Burana
Mussorgsky - Night On Bald Mountain (Rimsky-Korsokov arrangement). 1886	
Johann Sebastian Bach - Well-Tempered Clavier 2, Prelude F Sharp minor

*3rd 10*

Claude Debussy - The Sunken Cathedral
Sergei Rachmaninoff - Prelude Op. 23 No. 5
Franz Liszt - Consolation No. 3
Richard Strauss - Also Sprach Zarathustra
Ravel - Bolero

George Martin - Pepperland
Chopin - Prelude in Db "Raindrop"
Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 14 in C♯ minor ("Moonlight Sonata") 
Antonio Vivaldi - The Four Seasons
Rossini - Overture to "The Barber of Seville"

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?86027-A-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Classical-Music&highlight=


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Ethereality said:


> These are probably the best for beginners:
> 
> Dvorak - New World Symphony
> Bach - Brandenberg Concertos
> ...


I wouldn't call works by Mahler or Wagner good for beginners.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I came in by Tchaikovsky’s first piano concerto. Recording by Julius Katchen. Played it and played it.


----------



## memewaffle (Apr 17, 2017)

Good ideas guys-I decided on the Mendelssohn first piano concerto, the Planets, and Beethoven's Apassionata Sonata. For context, I'm curating a playlist for a bunch of highschoolers who don't listen to classical music at _all._ So basically I'd like to put forward the often sublime, often exhilerating nature of classical music, and then towards the end, perhaps add the more large scale works like Mahler or Beethoven symphonies, which are often a bit hard to understand without the necessary classical language. When I tried to listen Beethoven no.3, one of my favorite pieces of all time, a few years ago, without an understanding of music prior, it was very difficult for me to understand. Having immersed myself more as of late, it's incredible-especially the first movement. Currently, I'm obsessed with Mahler 2.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

I doubt there is a universal answer, because different music fits different temperaments. From my own experience, neither Mozart nor Beethoven were suited. I entered through the A Color Symphony by Bliss and then Brucker. For some people coming from prog rock backgrounds possibly Bartok or some other modernists might be a better choice.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

memewaffle said:


> Good ideas guys-I decided on the Mendelssohn first piano concerto, the Planets, and Beethoven's Apassionata Sonata. For context, I'm curating a playlist for a bunch of highschoolers who don't listen to classical music at _all._ So basically I'd like to put forward the often sublime, often exhilerating nature of classical music, and then towards the end, perhaps add the more large scale works like Mahler or Beethoven symphonies, which are often a bit hard to understand without the necessary classical language. When I tried to listen Beethoven no.3, one of my favorite pieces of all time, a few years ago, without an understanding of music prior, it was very difficult for me to understand. Having immersed myself more as of late, it's incredible-especially the first movement. Currently, I'm obsessed with Mahler 2.


Feel free to use my already in progress playlist.

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?86027-A-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Classical-Music&highlight=

I've posted up to #170, although my list-in-waiting is well over 500 entries.

I have only ONE that I'd change on my list . . . . I gave the 6th spot to *Summer* from *Vivaldi's The Four Seasons* rather than one of the other suites in the collection. While it may be subjectively the best of the lot, it is certainly the least accessible of them . . . it's deep and moody and requires more attention than the others. ANY of the others is probably a better choice there.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Jacck said:


> I doubt there is a universal answer, because different music fits different temperaments.


pretty much this. You could learn to appreciate things you don't like at first with time of course. But there's no such a thing like a short list of pieces that you make to listen to any random person and have an automatic appreciation as a reaction.
So... any list in this thread is at the same a good starting point and it's not.
The only thing I could say is that exactly because people can appreciate different things I would probably try to make them listen wildly different things and from very different periods.


----------



## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

DavidA said:


> I came in by Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto. Recording by Julius Katchen. Played it and played it.


So did I (Pogorelich/Abbado). Second one was Vivaldi's Four Seasons (Hudeček/Virtuosi Di Praga)...
...and then I watched Foman's Amadeus (again and again).

Generally, beginners may have problem with the length, so I recommend to start with short famous pieces:

Mozart - Piano Sonata A major, K. 331: Rondo: Alla Turca
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons, "Spring": Allegro
Bach - Orchestral Suite No. 3, BWV 1068: Air
Orff - Carmina Burana: O Fortuna
Beethoven - Bagatelle in A minor, "Für Elise"
Smetana - My Fatherland: The Moldau
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite No. 1: Morning Mood
Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 14, "Moonlight Sonata": Adagio Sostenuto


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Jacck said:


> I doubt there is a universal answer, because different music fits different temperaments. From my own experience, neither Mozart nor Beethoven were suited. I entered through the A Color Symphony by Bliss and then Brucker. For some people coming from prog rock backgrounds possibly Bartok or some other modernists might be a better choice.


It has to to with general consensus. If one does not know the potential listener likes or dislikes and Beethoven and Mozart share top prize for wealth of musical works and both are like top tier genius level then odds are stacked in their favor that more people will like their works than not.

I have brought this up before in so many ways but Beethoven transcends his works. If I go back to Beethoven after a break and listen to a work it has a "stamp" on it that somehow speaks to me. The work itself is some ways is secondary to the fact that Beethoven is the composer first. Mozart and Bach and others as well. If a person with some past history with heavy metal or rock is interested in exploring classical music so be it but you do not tell Beethoven what you want, you open your mind to what Beethoven has created and your mind will respond in due time as it will with other composers. No need to rush but throwing out classical hits, to me, are a waste of time. I seldom listen to Pictures at an exhibition/Sheherazade and many others. Better to focus on a composer and get the message. Once you feel you are on to something then you can keep going down the path.

That said, I have two versions A Color Symphony. Will listen again to it as I never really got it the first time.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

A few more:

Wagner Tannhauser Overture
Grieg Peer Gynt Suite
Rossini William Tell Overture
Bizet L'Arlesienne Suite No. 2


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Many Opera Overtures are good entry-level pieces.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> A few more:
> 
> Wagner Tannhauser Overture
> Grieg Peer Gynt Suite
> ...


I fell in love with Wagner's music through the _Tannhäuser_ overture! It's still one of my favorite orchestral pieces, and the rest of the opera is spectacular also! :angel:



pianozach said:


> Many Opera Overtures are good entry-level pieces.


Yes, for sure. Mozart's _Le nozze di Figaro_ overture was one of the first pieces that I became familiar with. It was one of my favorite pieces in my earlier classical-music-listening days. I'm glad MatthewWeflen mentioned the _William Tell_ overture. Most people aren't familiar with the first three sections, and it's very accessible. Even if someone who isn't familiar with classical music finds the first three sections boring (I don't see how they could! :lol, they will be rewarded by the familiar and exciting climax.


----------



## Flutter (Mar 26, 2019)

Personally I'd do these four to a first-time listener:

1. Something from Mauchat
2. Something from Bach
3. Something from Stravinsky
4. Something from Stockhausen 

Then, I'd recommend them more in the area of whatever they liked.


----------



## Flutter (Mar 26, 2019)

DaveM said:


> The Messiaen and Berg works would be guaranteed to send progressive rock and metal fans back to progressive rock and metal.


Nonsense, the opposite is true, it'll make them ditch prog rock/metal for 20th century classical.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Many Opera Overtures are good entry-level pieces.





adriesba said:


> I fell in love with Wagner's music through the _Tannhäuser_ overture! It's still one of my favorite orchestral pieces, and the rest of the opera is spectacular also! :angel:
> 
> Yes, for sure. Mozart's _Le nozze di Figaro_ overture was one of the first pieces that I became familiar with. It was one of my favorite pieces in my earlier classical-music-listening days. I'm glad MatthewWeflen mentioned the _William Tell_ overture. Most people aren't familiar with the first three sections, and it's very accessible. Even if someone who isn't familiar with classical music finds the first three sections boring (I don't see how they could! :lol, they will be rewarded by the familiar and exciting climax.


Overture Magic Flute
Overture Tannhauser
William Tell Overture
Overture Barber of Seville
Overture Marriage of Figaro
Don Giovanni
Underture from Tommy
Overture from The Pirates of Penzance

I'd like to add that a great many Broadway Musicals, both ancient and recent are quite good

Prologue West Side Story
Overture Gypsy
Overture Oklahoma
Overture Jesus Christ Superstar 
Overture The Fantasticks
Ouverture The Threepenny Opera


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

adriesba said:


> I fell in love with Wagner's music through the _Tannhäuser_ overture! It's still one of my favorite orchestral pieces, and the rest of the opera is spectacular also! :angel:
> 
> Yes, for sure. Mozart's _Le nozze di Figaro_ overture was one of the first pieces that I became familiar with. It was one of my favorite pieces in my earlier classical-music-listening days. I'm glad MatthewWeflen mentioned the _William Tell_ overture. Most people aren't familiar with the first three sections, and it's very accessible. Even if someone who isn't familiar with classical music finds the first three sections boring (I don't see how they could! :lol, they will be rewarded by the familiar and exciting climax.


I disagree about William Tell. I think anyone who has watched a cartoon in the last 75 years is familiar with both the storm and the pastorale afterward. So with the finale, almost everyone had heard 3/4 of it at some point. It's really astonishing what Rossini's batting average was.


----------



## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

DaveM said:


> The Messiaen and Berg works would be guaranteed to send progressive rock and metal fans back to progressive rock and metal.


I don't think that holds true in general - it certainly got me interested in modern classical. Also, when playing classical music to friends that favor rock music, they seem to enjoy composers like Berg and Messiaen much more than they enjoy Beethoven and Bruckner.


----------



## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

How about Kodaly's Hary Janos suite? Engaging and varied without being over-long.


----------



## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

I would recommend shorter pieces.

Saint-Saëns’s Danse macabre (orchestral)
Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte
intermezzo from Cavalleria Rusticana
intermezzo from Háry János


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I disagree about William Tell. I think anyone who has watched a cartoon in the last 75 years is familiar with both the storm and the pastorale afterward. So with the finale, almost everyone had heard 3/4 of it at some point. It's really astonishing what Rossini's batting average was.


I don't know. I had never heard the first three sections (at least that I can remember) before I actually got a CD with the _William Tell_ overture on it. I think Disney made an old cartoon about a windmill or something with the first sections, but I still haven't seen it. I've watched a lot of Tom and Jerry also and never heard it in those. Maybe it's in Looney Toons, but I don't know. I haven't heard any newer cartoons with those sections either. Maybe it's just the older cartoons that I haven't seen that had it.  I'm really confused... Which cartoons have those parts?


----------



## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

adriesba said:


> I wouldn't call works by Mahler or Wagner good for beginners.


Before classical, I listened to a lot of avant garde post rock and industrial music, and I started listening to classical starting from Arvo Part and Pendercki and Gorecki and Ligeti and the like, moving backwards to Shostakovich and Bartok and Mahler. Mostly listen to Wagner, Chopin, Verdi, Bach, Brahms, Beethoven etc. now, but no way would I have been interested starting there.

That is to say, it all depends on the person.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

adriesba said:


> I don't know. I had never heard the first three sections (at least that I can remember) before I actually got a CD with the _William Tell_ overture on it. I think Disney made an old cartoon about a windmill or something with the first sections, but I still haven't seen it. I've watched a lot of Tom and Jerry also and never heard it in those. Maybe it's in Looney Toons, but I don't know. I haven't heard any newer cartoons with those sections either. Maybe it's just the older cartoons that I haven't seen that had it.  I'm really confused... Which cartoons have those parts?


https://www.victorianopera.com.au/behind-the-scenes/where-have-i-heard-that-overture-william-tell


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> https://www.victorianopera.com.au/behind-the-scenes/where-have-i-heard-that-overture-william-tell


It seems these are mostly older cartoons. I just don't know what the first three sections have been in recently.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

adriesba said:


> It seems these are mostly older cartoons. I just don't know what the first three sections have been in recently.


My knowledge of cartoons is far from encyclopedic. I just know that when I sat down to listen to it seriously for the first time, 3 of 4 sections were quite familiar to me. I am certain parts of it have been in The Simpsons, for instance. The Pastorale theme is ubiquitous as a stand in for "morning" in popular entertainment.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

howlingfantods said:


> Before classical, I listened to a lot of avant garde post rock and industrial music, and I started listening to classical starting from Arvo Part and Pendercki and Gorecki and Ligeti and the like, moving backwards to Shostakovich and Bartok and Mahler. Mostly listen to Wagner, Chopin, Verdi, Bach, Brahms, Beethoven etc. now, but no way would I have been interested starting there.
> 
> That is to say, it all depends on the person.


Agreed, I think it can be very different for different people. I personally started from Romanticism (mainly Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, Wagner). The only problem with that was that it's been very difficult to get into Baroque and Classical period composers, even Mozart - compositions from Romanticism just feel the most emotionally charging. But I'm still in high school, so there's plenty of time to listen and get into all different kinds of composers  .


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I've noticed some people can't stand the archaism of pre-Romantic common practice music, in the form of certain phrases and cadences. But that archaism doesn't bother me very much. Rather, it makes the music sound somewhat distant from the modern aesthetics. My appreciation for modern cultural aesthetics (film scores, newage, metal, rock, jazz, minimalism, etc) is relatively low, so that sort of affects my view on later music.


----------



## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

howlingfantods said:


> Before classical, I listened to a lot of avant garde post rock and industrial music, and I started listening to classical starting from Arvo Part and Pendercki and Gorecki and Ligeti and the like, moving backwards to Shostakovich and Bartok and Mahler. Mostly listen to Wagner, Chopin, Verdi, Bach, Brahms, Beethoven etc. now, but no way would I have been interested starting there.
> 
> That is to say, it all depends on the person.


My recent experience (if I interpret your post correctly ) leads me to a similar conclusion. I recently introduced Shostakovich's 12th Symphony to a very diverse group of students when we were considering interpretations of the Russian Revolution...…….they all engaged with it, some asked me for 'playlists' with further suggestions and some are looking at Mark Wigglesworths description and assessment of the work from 'Marks notes'...…

Conclusion.....have not come to one in relation to the original post!


----------



## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

hammeredklavier said:


> I've noticed some people can't stand the archaism of pre-Romantic common practice music, in the form of certain phrases and cadences. But that archaism doesn't bother me very much. Rather, it makes the music sound somewhat distant from the modern aesthetics. My appreciation for modern cultural aesthetics (film scores, newage, metal, rock, jazz, minimalism, etc) is relatively low, so that sort of affects my view on later music.


So hearing the 'phrases and cadences' you mention doesn't compromise the uniqueness of such works? Almost identical phrases above identical chord patterns shared amongst all the composers of this period?


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

pianozach said:


> Overture Magic Flute
> Overture Tannhauser
> William Tell Overture
> Overture Barber of Seville
> ...


More Rossini needed for this list. In the past, I have recommended an album of Rossini overtures as a starting point. I've long had one by Giulini and recently gotten another one in the Szell box. Two others you left out: The overture to Candide and the overture to A Midsummer Night's Dream. And speaking of Mendelssohn, I haven't reviewed the entire thread, but I didn't see the Italian Symphony or the Violin Concerto mentioned last time I checked.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

perempe said:


> I would recommend shorter pieces.
> 
> Saint-Saëns's Danse macabre (orchestral)
> Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte
> ...


Yes, as an introduction to Classical music, I agree that shorter is better. Those first two are on my list.

.



jegreenwood said:


> More Rossini needed for this list. In the past, I have recommended an album of *Rossini overtures* as a starting point. I've long had one by Giulini and recently gotten another one in the Szell box. Two others you left out: The overture to *Candide* and the overture to *A Midsummer Night's Dream*. And speaking of Mendelssohn, I haven't reviewed the entire thread, but I didn't see the Italian Symphony or the Violin Concerto mentioned last time I checked.


Ah. Yes, a CD of *Rossini Overtures* might be a good choice. However, in my list I tried mightily to not overdo any one composer or genre/style at one time. Some have mentioned they love 20th Century works, and don't care for Baroque. Others have opposing views.

Better to keep the list, and the order of the list, eclectic, I think.

I had thought about including the *Candide Overture*, as several lists I found recommended it highly. I found that I couldn't remember it at all, and I know I've heard it. Nothing. I remember several of the songs in the show, but cannot dredge up what the overture sounds like at all.

I'll put that and the *A Midsummer Night's Dream* on my morning listening list.

With so many composers and works, my list is a flea market of great accessible works. Mendelssohn doesn't make his first appearance until #112, with the *Scottish Symphony (No. 3)*. His *Violin Concerto in E minor* is #120. The *Italian Symphony* is #129.

For having been neglected for the *Top 100 *spots on my list, it's actually remarkable that three works by a single composer would be clumped so close together.

*Mendelssohn* returns at #148 with his *String Octet*, and is absent until the mid-200s with *Quartet #1 in D*. Somewhere in the 300s is *Symphony #4 *and the *Hebrides Overture*. His *Piano Concerto No. 1 in G Minor* is in the 400s

But my list is pointedly subjective . . . and after the first 100 spots, is merely a safari through *Classical Music Land* - _"Look! There's some gazelle, Oh! over to the left - some zebra . . . Oh lookee there! Two lions mating."_ So much great music, and really no way to compare them to each other . . . . *Beethoven's 5th* vs. *Brandenburg #6*? *Bolero* vs. *Handel's Harp Concerto*? *Shostakovich's 8th Quartet* vs. *Vespers*?

One thing I have been doing as I've been posting the list is listening to others' recommendations though, and often sliding them into the list, or even moving them up the list so they'll be posted sooner.


----------



## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

annaw said:


> Agreed, I think it can be very different for different people. I personally started from Romanticism (mainly Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, Wagner). The only problem with that was that it's been very difficult to get into Baroque and Classical period composers, even Mozart - compositions from Romanticism just feel the most emotionally charging. But I'm still in high school, so there's plenty of time to listen and get into all different kinds of composers  .


I mostly feel the same and it's been many decades for me since high school 

I do listen to a little Mozart and a lot of Bach, but most other baroque composers don't do much for me and other classical era composers do nothing for me. Even the little Mozart I listen to is basically just his Requiem and his operas--my mind wanders at his instrumental music. I used to think it was old people's music, but I'm getting pretty close to old and it's still not clicking....

ETA - looking over the posts, it occurs to me that there's a lot of "big" music being recommended--symphonic music, overtures, etc. From my experience, many non-classical music lovers are often open to smaller, slower, more intimate pieces--Goldberg variations, Satie's Gymnopedies, Chopin op 28 no 15 ("raindrop" prelude), Bach's first cello suite in C, the first Brahms sextet, Barber's Adagio for strings, the adagietto from Mahler's 5th, Schubert's Death and the Maiden quartet, that kind of thing.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Something short and easy, especially music that has already influenced millions.

Handel's *Hallelujah chorus*, beginnings of *Also Sprach Zarathustra* or *Beethoven's 5th* symphony, Bach's *Brandenburg Concerto No. 3*, Mozart's *Eine Kleine Nachtmusik*, Tchaikovsky's *Nutcracker*, stuff like that.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

pianozach said:


> . . . .
> 
> I had thought about including the *Candide Overture*, as several lists I found recommended it highly. I found that I couldn't remember it at all, and I know I've heard it. Nothing. I remember several of the songs in the show, but cannot dredge up what the overture sounds like at all.
> 
> . . . .


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

larold said:


> Something short and easy, especially music that has already influenced millions.
> 
> Handel's *Hallelujah chorus*, beginnings of *Also Sprach Zarathustra* or *Beethoven's 5th* symphony, Bach's *Brandenburg Concerto No. 3*, Mozart's *Eine Kleine Nachtmusik*, Tchaikovsky's *Nutcracker*, stuff like that.


I agree that "short" is the way to go.

However, there's really nothing "short" about *Beethoven's 5th Symphony* (29 to 36 minutes long) or *The Nutcracker* (depending on the version anywhere from 60 to 90 minutes or more).

However, in spite of their lengthy, both are certainly 'accessible' works, so there IS that.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

jegreenwood said:


>


LOL

I actually have TWO versions of *Bernstein* conducting his *Candide Overture* cued up.

Here's the other . . .


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

howlingfantods said:


> I mostly feel the same and it's been many decades for me since high school
> 
> I do listen to a little Mozart and a lot of Bach, but most other baroque composers don't do much for me and other classical era composers do nothing for me. Even the little Mozart I listen to is basically just his Requiem and his operas--my mind wanders at his instrumental music. I used to think it was old people's music, but I'm getting pretty close to old and it's still not clicking....
> 
> ETA - looking over the posts, it occurs to me that there's a lot of "big" music being recommended--symphonic music, overtures, etc. From my experience, many non-classical music lovers are often open to smaller, slower, more intimate pieces--Goldberg variations, Satie's Gymnopedies, Chopin op 28 no 15 ("raindrop" prelude), Bach's first cello suite in C, the first Brahms sextet, Barber's Adagio for strings, the adagietto from Mahler's 5th, Schubert's Death and the Maiden quartet, that kind of thing.


Well, there are cds put together for newbies all the time--excerpts from larger works. And the adagio in g minor/albinoni, Barber adagio, Pachelbel canon so they must be onto something but the thing I noticed in reviews is that many do not seem to "graduate" from the first initial contact. I keep making this point over and over. It is one thing to hear "I love this piece!" and 5 to 10 years later, they are now listening to all kinds of classical music. Many are simply stuck on one cd or maybe a few pieces. So it does take work that each person has to be "wanting" to invest in the life of pursuing this type of music. I know more than a few people who simply never move on from where they started.

The other thing is I feel the same way as you do with various composers..so why invest time except on the radio. Why do I care if it does not "click" or that I LOVE THAT MUSIC!!!!!...like I need to be fanatical classical music fan with my eyes popping out of my heard or something.

And I do think members are being influenced to pursue their passions full swing but as the one poster said, if in high school, then just chill and relax, and take your time as the music is not going anywhere soon.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

jegreenwood said:


>





pianozach said:


> LOL
> 
> I actually have TWO versions of *Bernstein* conducting his *Candide Overture* cued up.
> 
> Here's the other . . .


And . . . the verdict is in. The envelope, please . . .

I prefer the earlier version much better . . . far more energy and pizzazz.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I do think it’s very important to introduce people to music that we liked when we began rather than music we necessarily like now. Of course we have to remember we are dealing with the younger generation but I believe that the music I first bought when I was a teenager still held up pretty well. If I remember correctly the first records I bought:

Tchaikovsky‘s first piano concerto
Handel’s water music
Beethoven’s Pastoral symphony
Mendelssohnn’s violin concerto
Holst Planets
Beethoven’s piano concerto 5


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

pianozach said:


> And . . . the verdict is in. The envelope, please . . .
> 
> I prefer the earlier version much better . . . far more energy and pizzazz.


I agree completely. But the other popped up first in my search.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I say short though the first I can recall buying on recordings were longer -- Beethoven's 5th, the Bach Orchestral Suites and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker suite. I liked all for different reasons. I had sung choruses from Messiah in high school; perhaps that was my short beginnings.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

larold said:


> ............................................


. . . sounds about right . . . .


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> We doin' this again?
> 
> Fine
> 
> ...


*31-40*

Wagner - Ride of the Valkyries 
Mozart - Symphony No.40 in G minor
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons "Spring"
Beethoven - Symphony No. 6	
Mozart - Requiem in D minor

Johann Strauss II - The Blue Danube, Op.314 
Tchaikovsky - Capriccio Italien
Paul Dukas - The Sorcerer's Apprentice	
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9
Schubert - Ave Maria

*41-50*

Ottorino Respighi - The Pines of Rome	
Beethoven's Symphony No. 7 
Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major, Op.50
Thomas Tallis (1505-1585) - Spem in Alium (40-voice motet), 1570
Beethoven's Piano Sonata No.21 in C Major Op.53 (The Waldstein)

Dvorak - Slavonic Dance No. 7, Op. 46 
Josquin des Prez - Missa L'Homme armé super voces musicales
Palestrina - Missa Aeterna Christi munera
Allegri - Miserere
Beethoven's String Quartet in F Major Op.59, no.1

*51-60*

Beethoven - "Razumovsky" String Quartets
Monteverdi - The Vespers
Mozart - Piano Concerto No. 20
Tchaikovsky - Sixth Symphony Pathetique
Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor, Op. 13 "Pathetique"

William Byrd - Mass for 4 & 5 voices
Bach - Brandenburg Concertos
Brahms - Piano Trio No. 1 Eroica Trio
Schubert - Death and the Maiden String Quartet
Mozart - Piano Concerto No. 21, Andante ("Elvira Madigan")

*"Beethoven tells you what it's like to be Beethoven and Mozart tells you what it's like to be human. Bach tells you what it's like to be the universe."
― Douglas Adams*


----------



## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

The piece that convinced my then-teenage rock-fan son that CM had something to be said for it was Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead. Rimsky's Russian Easter Overture would be a good intro, too.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Rimsky's Russian Easter Overture would be a good intro, too._

That was one of mine way back when. Glinka's Ruslan and Ludmilla overture too.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Another thing I’ve noticed is that often many mainstream classical radios (e.g Classic FM) play a lot of popular and light classical music that is easy to listen to and works pretty well as a background music. (It also depends on the radio channel though - the Estonian one plays very little mainstream classical but a lot of works by lesser known composers.) That would also help to understand what kind of classical music one could potentially like.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

annaw said:


> Another thing I've noticed is that often many mainstream classical radios (e.g Classic FM) play a lot of popular and light classical music that is easy to listen to and works pretty well as a background music. (It also depends on the radio channel though - the Estonian one plays very little mainstream classical but a lot of works by lesser known composers.) That would also help to understand what kind of classical music one could potentially like.


Agree. The thing that should be obvious is that these classical stations are being supported by listeners who listen to the music as background, are not musically educated, and probably most are nothing like many members on TC. They listen casually, might have a few cds (100 or so) and enjoy the "top forty picks as favorites". I am sure Pachelbel canon is on the list along with Beethoven's 9th.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

KUSC streams Classical 24/7.

During peak hours they do tend to play popular favorites by popular composers, although they often shuffle in obscurities, soundtrack edits, parlour pieces, and fun stuff all the time.

In the off hours, however, they're a bit more adventurous. Check out their playlists:

https://www.kusc.org/radio/playlists/

So, the last 10 things they played, in reverse order, as of 2:45 PDT:

Divertimento: Waltz - Leonard Bernstein
Keyboard Concerto #1 in d MWV 1052 - Bach
Giani Schicchi: O Mio Babbino Caro - Puccini
Orpheus in the Underworld: Overture - Offenbach 
Don Quixote: Overture - Telemann

Suite Espanola: Cadiz - Albeniz
Symphony #3 in F Op 90 - Brahms 
Oboe Concerto #2a in Bb HWV 302 - Handel
Nocturne #8 in Db Op 27/2 - Chopin
Cavalleria Rusticana: Intermezzo - Mascagni


----------



## bfBrian (Aug 12, 2018)

How about the Festive Overture from Shostakovich? Fast paced and festive and not too long, loud, melodic. The only problem would be if they liked it and wanted more of the same and thought they'd get it from Shostakovich.


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Composers:

Beginner

Holst
John Williams
Adams
Bernstein
Pärt
Scarlatti
Saint-Saëns
Reich
Grieg
Glass

Intermediate

Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Bach
Chopin
Rachmaninoff
Debussy
Shostakovich
Dvořák
Stravinsky

Advanced

Mozart
Schubert
Mahler
Brahms
Sibelius
Wagner
Shostakovich
Debussy
Prokofiev

Expert Esoteric

Reger
Bruckner
Myaskovsky
Delius
Schumann
Haydn
Janáček
Gluck
Martinu
Dufay


----------



## ZeR0 (Apr 7, 2020)

For individuals who have virtually never listened to classical music before, I often show them Mozart's Requiem. Some of them recognize hearing parts of it from movies. It usually doesn't fail to interest, and many ask me for more recommendations. Then I usually give them more of Mozart's greatest and most well-known compositions such as some symphonies and piano concertos.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

ZeR0 said:


> For individuals who have virtually never listened to classical music before, I often show them Mozart's Requiem. Some of them recognize hearing parts of it from movies. It usually doesn't fail to interest, and many ask me for more recommendations. Then I usually give them more of Mozart's greatest and most well-known compositions such as some symphonies and piano concertos.


IMO, the best "entry-level" Mozart works:

Symphony 41 in C "Jupiter"
Overture from The Marriage of Figaro
Symphony No. 40 in G Minor
*Requiem in D minor*
Piano Concerto No. 20

Piano Concerto No. 21 "Elvira Madigan"
Symphony No. 35
Symphony No. 36
Overture from The Magic Flute
Symphony No. 37

. . . Mostly symphonies and overtures, but honorable mention to *Horn Concerto No. 3
*
. . . but his *OPERAS* . . .

*The Marriage of Figaro*, as well as two of his other operas, *Die Zauberflaute (The Magic Flute)*, and *Cosi Fan Tutte* are masterpieces you cannot live without.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Mozart was one of the composers I listened to the most when I first started listening to classical music. Now I rarely listen to anything by him. Not sure why.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

adriesba said:


> Mozart was one of the composers I listened to the most when I first started listening to classical music. Now I rarely listen to anything by him. Not sure why.


Tastes change.

Newer composers have distracted you with fancier music. Beethoven put a choir in a Symphony. Tchaikovsky resorted to cannons.

Here's some obscure Mozart to let you "discover" him anew:

*Eine Kleine Freimaurer Kantate, K623*





Mozart wrote this 12-minute "Little Freemason Cantata" only a month before his death, for the dedication of the new location for his Masonic Lodge. It's nice how the opera singing is integrated into the composition.

*La Betulia Liberata, K. 118*





Mozart's only completed oratorio, written when he was just 15 years old; based on the Book of Judith story telling of the barbarian general Holofernes' beheading by the Israelite widow, Judith.

*Regina Coeli, K. 185*





The fifteen-year-old Mozart opens and closes the piece with a bouncy, joyous tune for chorus. In between are two contemplative sections featuring a soprano soloist (she gets to show off in the concluding "Alleluia" too).

*Notturno for Four Orchestras, K. 286*





Mozart achieves an incredible effect in this charming nocturne, the four small ensembles participating in an echoing conversation. Beware, however: many conductors on record have failed to achieve this acoustic effect; stick with the recording by Jordi Savall, the only readily-available recording that gets it right.

And each little orchestra gets a natural horn. So rich, so deep, so comforting.

*String Quintet in D, K593*





Ah, the wonders of having an extra viola.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

pianozach said:


> Tastes change.
> 
> Newer composers have distracted you with fancier music. Beethoven put a choir in a Symphony. Tchaikovsky resorted to cannons.


Distracted? Do you mean I need to listen to Mozart instead of later composers? lol. :lol:


----------



## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

OP: "Extroverted" pieces like Stravinsky's Rite might appeal to adventurous music fans. But really, unless you're are weirdo (as myself) or have a background in classical/jazz/art music, it's nigh impossible to suddenly acquire a taste for advanced forms of music—it's not practical or convenient.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Red Terror said:


> OP: "Extroverted" pieces like Stravinsky's Rite might appeal to adventurous music fans. But really, unless you're are weirdo (as myself) or have a background in classical/jazz/art music, it's nigh impossible to suddenly acquire a taste for advanced forms of music-it's not practical or convenient.


Actually, it would be helpful to know what sorts of music the intended victim, oops, I mean subject, enjoys.

For instance, if someone enjoys Prog, you might start with some of the pieces that prog bands have appropriated.

A Barry Manilow lover might enjoy Chopin's Prelude in C minor op. 28, no. 20 or the 2nd movement (Adagio sostenuto) of Sergei Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 in C minor, Opus 18.

A film/soundtrack fan? Also Sprach Zarusthustra, Bolero, Holst.

Etc.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Red Terror said:


> OP: "Extroverted" pieces like Stravinsky's Rite might appeal to adventurous music fans. But really, unless you're are weirdo (as myself) or have a background in classical/jazz/art music, it's nigh impossible to suddenly acquire a taste for advanced forms of music-it's not practical or convenient.


I suspect I have to join with the weirdo gang then :lol:. I have no background in music but fell utterly in love with classical music, quite suddenly as well.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

pianozach said:


> Actually, it would be helpful to know what sorts of music the intended victim, oops, I mean subject, enjoys.
> 
> For instance, if someone enjoys Prog, you might start with some of the pieces that prog bands have appropriated.
> 
> ...


That's a good point. I think another thing is also to determine whether the person generally prefers quick or slow pieces. If the person only listens to very energetic and fast music, it's no use to make him listen through a 20 minutes long adagio while for person who enjoys slower works, it might be a perfect introduction.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Beethoven Symphonies
Tchaikovsky
The Planets Suite
Vivaldi
Messiah
B Minor Mass
The Trout (good entry into chamber music)
Concerto For Orchestra (Good intro to Modernism)


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I think, from all the "answers" posted here, the best answer to the OP is "Who knows?" Everyone has different tastes and a different formative experience and generalizes from that as if everyone else is like him/her. The route to CM appreciation is circuitous and different for everyone.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

adriesba said:


> Mozart was one of the composers I listened to the most when I first started listening to classical music. Now I rarely listen to anything by him. Not sure why.


Perhaps watching videos like these can help you appreciate more.


----------



## mahlernerd (Jan 19, 2020)

It really just depends on taste. The best advice I can give is to try the “big guys” first, such as Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc. From them you could probably get a good idea of the type of music that you enjoy. For me, I was always into orchestral music (I started that passion by listening to the Beethoven symphonies). From Beethoven, I went to Mozart (late symphonies) to Brahms, to Berlioz, to Mahler (who is now my favorite), to Shostakovich, and now I have a wide variety of music that I enjoy. I would say just try listening to a few sonatas, trios, quartets, etc., symphonies, operas, and see what you like the best. From there, start to branch off into other composers well-known for that genre. If you’ve already done that, then here are some options:

For Orchestral music:
Brahms
Late Mozart
Late Haydn 
Mahler
Berlioz
Shostakovich

For Solo Piano:
Liszt
Chopin
Rachmaninoff

For Opera:
Mozart
Rossini
Wagner
Verdi
Puccini

I really don’t have a lot of experience with chamber music, so I don’t think that I could help you with that. However, these are just my suggestions, and your tastes may very well be different than mine. Hope I could help!


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Here's some obscure Mozart to let you "discover" him anew:
> *Eine Kleine Freimaurer Kantate, K623*
> *La Betulia Liberata, K. 118*
> *Regina Coeli, K. 185*


Good recommendations. (awesome avatar, btw)








Mozart's Catholic music was my gateway drug to the Salzburg masters, Michael Haydn and Johann Ernst Eberlin. (Missa a Due Chori being one of the most exemplary works of the latter)

I feel strong sense of nostalgia from sections like:
[ 3:24 ]
[ 9:28 ] 




[ 8:50 ]
[ 11:18 ]


----------



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

MarkW said:


> I think, from all the "answers" posted here, the best answer to the OP is "Who knows?" Everyone has different tastes and a different formative experience and generalizes from that as if everyone else is like him/her. The route to CM appreciation is circuitous and different for everyone.


I'm just teasing you, but, so when someone says "Hey, I'm new to classical music, what should I listen to?" Would you answer "Who knows?"


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm just teasing you, but, so when someone says "Hey, I'm new to classical music, what should I listen to?" Would you answer "Who knows?"


 Well, what I always say -- and have said a dozen times here -- is, listen widely and randomly, and when you hear something that makes your ears perk up, listen to it several more times, and look for similar things of that type/composer. Rinse. Repeat.

What I think may be a good introductory piece may leave someone else completely cold (and on many more than one occasion, has.)


----------



## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I would use several to demonstrate form and structure. For the fugue, the first p/f pair from WTC I. For sonata form, rondo, minuet-trio and a microcosm of general Classical structure, Eine kleine Nachtmusik. For the symphony itself, Beethoven's third, fifth, sixth or seventh. For Romantic piano music, Chopin's nocturnes and preludes. Once you understand the forms that are being used, it's easier to appreciate. Maybe Britten's "Young Person's Guide..." Also I think throwing Stravinsky, Bartók, Shostakovich or Schoenberg at someone right off the bat might be a bit much, but who knows. To each his own. I'd keep things accessible.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm just teasing you, but, so when someone says "Hey, I'm new to classical music, what should I listen to?" Would you answer "Who knows?"


Again, I'd answer with a question. Probably something along the lines of "Well, what kind of music do you enjoy the most? What Songs? What bands/artists? "

Once you have a sense of that, you have a better handle on what sort of Classical to recommend.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Hey I followed your link upthread to the mega post on the other site. I listened through the first 25 that I didn't already know about and bookmarked for future listening. Great stuff there, thanks.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Feel free to use my already in progress playlist.
> 
> http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?86027-A-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Classical-Music&highlight=
> 
> ...


Hopefully you're referring to my megalist.

I stuffed that thread full and it started having database errors near the end, so that thread

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?86027-A-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Classical-Music&highlight=

now has a Part 2, which starts at *171*.

http://www.yesfans.com/showthread.php?87259-A-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Classical-Music-Part-2&highlight=

Part 1 ended with Five Entry-Level Operas, and 5 Great Piano Concertos
Part 2 starts with 5 each from the BIG 3.


----------

