# Beethoven String Quartet 14. Just a Music Lover Perspective. (Week 24Feb /01March)



## Vicente

This activity is intended to listen this composition at least once during next week. Activity intentions are posted in following thread:

 Weekly Quartet. Just a Music Lover Perspective

Share, if you feel so, your emotions in this thread. Check if the repeated opus listening makes you increase the enjoyment.

I will use Julliard Quartet version as reference, and then check another groups interpretation.
This is the first time I test this way of listening, will share my impressions.

I have found will googleing two references that could help increase the knowledge of this string quartet, first one is rather descriptive:

 Exploring Beethoven String Quartets

The second one is Jonathan Brown, Cuarteto Casals viola, interview regarding Beethoven String Quartets, specially the late ones:

Interview Jonathan Brown

Enjoy
Vicente Vida


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## Oldhoosierdude

I have three recordings of this work. Yale, Colorado, and Cleveland Quartets. I will share after listening.

Great idea!


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## Vicente

User Mandryka has found an op 131 analysis that could be of interest.

Beethoven Op 131 analysis and concert introduction


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## flamencosketches

I'm listening now. I feel like this is one of the Beethoven quartets that has not yet "clicked" in my mind. I enjoy it, more than ever, now, but it doesn't have the divine significance in my life that it does for so many lovers of music. Thankfully there is always op.130, which I really love.

I love the fugue opening. I love the dance of celebration—first tentative, then joyous and ebullient—of the second movement. I really like the recitativo secco of the third movement. But I think the problem for me lies in the centerpiece of the work, the long movement 4 Andante. Somehow it doesn't seem as transcendent a set of variations as he was capable of writing by this point in time. But more likely it just hasn't clicked with me as I've said.


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## flamencosketches

Here's a pretty good video about the quartet I think:






I'll watch the whole thing later.


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## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> I'm listening now. I feel like this is one of the Beethoven quartets that has not yet "clicked" in my mind. I enjoy it, more than ever, now, but it doesn't have the divine significance in my life that it does for so many lovers of music. Thankfully there is always op.130, which I really love.
> 
> I love the fugue opening. I love the dance of celebration-first tentative, then joyous and ebullient-of the second movement. I really like the recitativo secco of the third movement. But I think the problem for me lies in the centerpiece of the work, the long movement 4 Andante. Somehow it doesn't seem as transcendent a set of variations as he was capable of writing by this point in time. But more likely it just hasn't clicked with me as I've said.


This totally reflects my viewpoint about the work. I prefer Nos. 12, 13, and 15; which truly elevate me to spiritual realms and are some of my favorite art of all time. The 14th is compositionally brilliant and portrays an incredible variety of emotions, but it has yet to fully hold my attention, especially in the central variations. My favorite movement is the opening fugue - absolutely black as hell. The kind of music that one can't listen to very often due to its painful rawness. Wagner called it "the most superhuman thing he ever wrote." But the rest of the quartet; with its blend of cheesy, purposeful naivety and boiling anguish, doesn't connect with me as much. The scherzo, however, is absolutely one of the most hilarious pieces of music ever written, maybe the only thing I actually burst out in laughter when I hear.


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## Merl

Incidentally, if you haven't seen it, check out the 2012 film 'A Late Quartet', starring Christopher Walken. It features this quartet extensively (played by the Brentanos). Its a good film and well worth a watch, especially if you're interested in SQ performance. Good story too. I'm a big fan of the Suske Quartets take on #14.


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## Selby

My initial days listening have been unrevealing. Prior to beginning this, I would argue that op.131 is one of the greatest works of art every created. This is a piece I've heard many times and I'm curious what the daily offering will bring. I had been listening to it paired with the Dutilleux piano sonata (from the companion listening thread) and had to stop, fearing that I would start associating the pieces with each other.


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## Josquin13

I recently heard Anders Hillborg's beautiful Kongsgaard Variations, and associated it with Beethoven's Op. 131 and the Op. 18, no. 3 SQs (as well as the Arietta from Op. 111), which it has been programed with on the new album by the Calder Quartet:


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## Mandryka

Selby said:


> My initial days listening have been unrevealing. Prior to beginning this, I would argue that op.131 is one of the greatest works of art every created. This is a piece I've heard many times and I'm curious what the daily offering will bring. I had been listening to it paired with the Dutilleux piano sonata (from the companion listening thread) and had to stop, fearing that I would start associating the pieces with each other.


The trick with listening to this seven times over seven days is to find seven interestingly different approaches. Calvet; Bernstein; Brooklyn Rider; Talich; ABQ; Vlach; Ébène; Et j'en passe.


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## Xisten267

This was the first string quartet I've ever listened to, when I was still entering the glorious realm of classical music, and my initial reaction to it was of intense dislike. "How could Beethoven write such a thing?" I thought at the time. Now, about twelve years later, and after repeating listenings over this time spam, I think that it's one of the major accomplishments of it's genre, and I now think that Op. 131 is very rich both in emotional and intellectual depths. The outer movements and the central theme and variations are what impresses and moves me the most on this piece. I still don't have a reference recording for this quartet though.


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## Allegro Con Brio

The Busch Quartet is an absolute must-listen for this!


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## Mandryka

Allegro Con Brio said:


> The Busch Quartet is an absolute must-listen for this!


But you said that you find your attention wondering, so it sounds like the Busch haven't done a good job with it.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Mandryka said:


> But you said that you find your attention wondering, so it sounds like the Busch haven't done a good job with it.


Well, it's the closest a recording has come to fully holding my attention I'll be listening to this quartet later today. What would you say is the best performance in terms of "holding your attention," especially in the variations movement?


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## flamencosketches

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Well, it's the closest a recording has come to fully holding my attention I'll be listening to this quartet later today. What would you say is the best performance in terms of "holding your attention," especially in the variations movement?


It's always the variations that loses me too. I guess I haven't heard a great recording either. I'm going to listen again later, either the Colorado SQ or the Kodály again. I'm in the market for another complete set-I'm torn between Takács, the old Hungarian SQ, the ABQ, or the Italiano, but am open to other options.


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## Merl

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Well, it's the closest a recording has come to fully holding my attention I'll be listening to this quartet later today. What would you say is the best performance in terms of "holding your attention," especially in the variations movement?


The Takacs, Veghs (stereo) , Suske, Brentanos, Itallianos, Kodalys, Auryns, Belceas and Alexanders (2nd cycle) and Cypress all hold my attention in this SQ but as I have multiple sets it depends what mood I'm in. Others swear by the Fine Arts and Busch quartets, who are both fine in these late quartets, but the Fine Arts I find frustrating (they put in quirky little idiomatic things that irritate me) and the Busch's recorded sound is really not nice (pitchy and boxey) but they are excellent performances....... I just find it hard to listen to them.


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## Mandryka

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Well, it's the closest a recording has come to fully holding my attention I'll be listening to this quartet later today. What would you say is the best performance in terms of "holding your attention," especially in the variations movement?


I don't have a problem with it, on the contrary, the variations are the high point for me. Sounds like it's just not your sort of thing.

One thing I like about the variations is that to me, they sound _mad_. Like a trivial silly tune going round a mad persons brain.


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## flamencosketches

Listening again today. This time, it's the Colorado String Quartet recording:










So far, so good. Though I think I like the Kodály Quartet better, I think the Coloradoans may have pulled off the variations movement better, or maybe I was just more attentive this time. I think they play with maybe a softer, sweeter sound than the Kodály, who dig into their strings a little bit more, maybe. Worth noting perhaps that this is an all-female ensemble, something I always appreciate. All in all, the music seems to be making slightly more sense, upon repeated exposure in a short timeframe.



Mandryka said:


> I don't have a problem with it, on the contrary, the variations are the high point for me. Sounds like it's just not your sort of thing.
> 
> One thing I like about the variations is that to me, they sound _mad_. Like a trivial silly tune going round a mad persons brain.


Interesting perspective, there, you might be onto something. I wonder whether those who fall in the "op.131-as-most-profound-utterance-of-all-Western-civilization" camp would agree with the theme as a trivial silly tune, & that all its variations and transformations represent a kind of insanity, or if these folks are hearing something else.


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## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> I wonder whether those who fall in the "op.131-as-most-profound-utterance-of-all-Western-civilization" camp would agree with the theme as a trivial silly tune, & that all its variations and transformations represent a kind of insanity, or if these folks are hearing something else.


There is a lot of "trivial silliness" in this quartet! The second movement seems laughably naive after the black depths of the opening fugue. The scherzo is almost rudimentary, downright silly in its repetitiveness and hilarious stops and starts. And I have always thought of the variations theme as being a very sweet, lilting melody from a Viennese night, transformed into an epic search for meaning in Beethoven's hands. In the end, he comes right back to that cheesy tune, like nothing ever happened. I think this work is really more about metaphysical/extramusical implications rather than the construction of the music itself. It's music unlike anything else, and nothing will ever be written like it. Sure, a lot of Mahler is like that, but I love Mahler's music even without his spiritual adventures. This, IMO, is not very likeable music unless you read some sort of program into it. Perhaps its that deep and unpenetratable mystery that leaves me cold even when I understand its significance. Today I listened to the Alexander Quartet (2009) recording, and thought it was very interesting. They take the first movement very quickly, which transforms it from a grueling lament into a breathless search for light. They leave very little space in between each movement, almost treating the work as an uninterrupted, hour-long utterance. And they don't go over the top on expressivity, conveying the notes pure and simple.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> Interesting perspective, there, you might be onto something. I wonder whether those who fall in the "op.131-as-most-profound-utterance-of-all-Western-civilization" camp would agree with the theme as a trivial silly tune, & that all its variations and transformations represent a kind of insanity, or if these folks are hearing something else.


Have you read Joyce's Ulysses? That's like the variations in op 131, each chapter in a different style, a lot of physicality in the writing, a lot of playfulness, genre-bending.


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## Judith

Merl said:


> Incidentally, if you haven't seen it, check out the 2012 film 'A Late Quartet', starring Christopher Walken. It features this quartet extensively (played by the Brentanos). Its a good film and well worth a watch, especially if you're interested in SQ performance. Good story too. I'm a big fan of the Suske Quartets take on #14.


I loved that film too


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> Have you read Joyce's Ulysses? That's like the variations in op 131, each chapter in a different style, a lot of physicality in the writing, a lot of playfulness, genre-bending.


I've read the first 10 pages of it, but couldn't make it much further  One day I'll take on the whole thing. Interesting that you bring that up. I am interested in such connections between music and literature. And surely, Ulysses has plenty in the camp that would have it as the most profound utterance in all western civilization, despite Beethoven, or anyone else.


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## Enthusiast

flamencosketches said:


> I'm in the market for another complete set-I'm torn between Takács, the old Hungarian SQ, the ABQ, or the Italiano, but am open to other options.


All of those are very good as are the Vegh and the Borodins (my own choices would be for the Vegh, the Takacs and the Borodins). But first there is the Busch Quartet's late quartets set: it is a must hear and impossible to resist. The sound is more than acceptable.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> other options.


Don't do anything for a couple of months, wait till Ebene Quartet release their complete Beethoven in March 2020, and sample it. In the meantime, there's this


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## Mandryka

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Well, it's the closest a recording has come to fully holding my attention I'll be listening to this quartet later today. What would you say is the best performance in terms of "holding your attention," especially in the variations movement?


Here's my suggestion to you.

1. Make sure you're alone and the curtains are closed.

2. Clear a space in the middle of the room and position yourself in it

3. Play a decent performance of the variations -- the Ebene one above will do.

4. Dance.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Mandryka said:


> Here's my suggestion to you.
> 
> 1. Make sure you're alone and the curtains are closed.
> 
> 2. Clear a space in the middle of the room and position yourself in it
> 
> 3. Play a decent performance of the variations -- the Ebene one above will do.
> 
> 4. Dance.


Though I didn't actually take you up on step 4, I thought this concept of listening to the variations was very interesting. There are certainly rustic dance elements throughout, as well as a lot of banal humor. Really none of the raw emotion of the first movement. I liked the Ebene performance, but I still can't get past the impression that the variations are all pretty homogeneous, with little characterization. One thing, this time around, that truly disturbed me was the deep cello "shake" that Beethoven keeps returning to throughout - it seems to serve no musical purpose. What could it be there for?


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## Mandryka

That cello idea is like a lurking menace in the background marking the threat of chaos, the void. It's present at the start of the 6th movement, which is as savage as the Rite of Spring or any Shostakovich Scherzo. It's there at the start of the presto, which in many ways is the most fabulous part of the quartet because it really is like madness, the stupid little tunes going round and round the deaf man's brain, he must have sensed the danger of falling into some sort of abyss.


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## Bwv 1080

-"tell you one thing about the Krauts,
they still clean up good..."
-"yeah, all you need is a little mozart..."
-"beethoven"
-"Sorry sir?"
-"Its not Mozart, that's Beethoven"






Only instance I know of 131 in a movie or TV show


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## Bwv 1080

For something different, listening to the period Quatuor Mosaique recording and this string orchestra arrangement:


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