# Does anybody like Wellington's Victory?



## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

So I had never listened to this piece, but only knew it by reputation for a long time. I always heard people say it was the worst work Beethoven ever made. I listened to it, and while I don't think it has the depth of his symphonies, quartets and such, I found it kind of fun! Also it has "My country 'tis of thee" in there, which I was very surprised to hear. I was like, hey, I know that melody!

Anyway. I was just wondering, is this work universally disdained or is there anybody out there who actually likes the work? I just find it fascinating because of the fact that I avoided it out of hearsay, but actually thought it was rather fun in a guilty 1812 overture kind of way. Not the best music but... Just kinda fun! So what are the opinions of people on TC?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Dedalus said:


> So I had never listened to this piece, but only knew it by reputation for a long time. I always heard people say it was the worst work Beethoven ever made. I listened to it, and while I don't think it has the depth of his symphonies, quartets and such, I found it kind of fun! Also it has "My country 'tis of thee" in there, which I was very surprised to hear. I was like, hey, I know that melody!
> 
> Anyway. I was just wondering, is this work universally disdained or is there anybody out there who actually likes the work? I just find it fascinating because of the fact that I avoided it out of hearsay, but actually thought it was rather fun in a guilty 1812 overture kind of way. Not the best music but... Just kinda fun! So what are the opinions of people on TC?


"My country is of Thee" is actually "God save the King" in this context!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It's a shame that Beethoven couldn't have used La Marseillaise to represent the French, as Tchaikovsky later did. But in his Vienna at the time, that was politically unacceptable.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

That's one I have yet to hear. I think I'll check YT right now!

[It's on now  I think it would be a real hit at the shooting range :lol: Well, if it was on a disc, I wouldn't skip it, but I think the shooting could get a bit tedious after a bit ]


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Even Beethoven's contemporaries sneered at Wellington's Victory. But he remained fond of it. A decade after its first performance, a negative review drew his scrawled comment, "O du elender Schuft! Was ich scheisse, ist besser als du je gedacht!" Better use Goggle Translate for that one...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I do like it,

​Try this one, spectacular :tiphat:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I have that disc. It is worth the occasional listen.
I do wonder at the venom that gets heaped on the piece. So what if it isn't a towering masterpiece ?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Yes the Mercury Living Presence disk is the one to get. I like Wellington's Victory but don't listen to it a lot.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

In one of my a la carte polls (#115), 6 out of 48 voters said they liked _Wellington's Victory_. That puts it in the bottom one-sixth of all works voted on, which is certainly poor by Beethoven's standards.

Perhaps if I did a "which of these works do you _dislike_" poll it would be a winner, but 6 likes out of 48 votes definitely means it's nowhere near being "universally disdained".

De gustibus etc.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Wellington's Victory celebrated Wellington's victory well enough. Neither Wellington nor Beethoven were pacifists.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

I can't deny that I have previously gone on record as saying I don't like it in this very forum. But although it's not particularly good, it's not particularly bad either, by the standard of all the sounds being called 'music' I've ever heard. Wellington's Victory and maybe the Triple Concerto excepted, I actively like all the Beethoven works I've heard, is the difference.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

It gets a lot of heat from people but it's not meant to be serious, serious music that you listen to bolt upright with the top button buttoned. It's meant to be a stirring, descriptive programmatic rabble-rouser and judging from its popularity in its day (Beethoven made more money off this piece than anything else he ever wrote) it was wholly successful in its goal. It's not bad music---it's even got a fugal treatment of God Save the King in it. It's just meant to be popular and showy. That's not the same thing as bad. Appealing to the lowest common denominator yes (especially with the notated cannons), but bad, no. Tchaikovsky in his equivalent piece not only includes cannons but throws on church bells for good measure. But for some reason you don't see people taking a dump on the 1812.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Beethoven had it shamelessly published for the money. A great composer caught "slumming" on the strength of his name.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2015)

This recording I like better than the Dorati performance and less gunpowder in my nostrils.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

traverso said:


> This recording I like better than the Dorati performance and less gunpowder in my nostrils.
> View attachment 78641


But it's the smell of gunpowder that makes the Mercury Living Presence disk so wonderful!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It would be fun to hear the first version of the piece, as written for Malzel's Panharmonicon, a mechanical orchestra. Don't think it's ever been recorded that way, or if a panharmonicon exists, or even if anybody knows exactly what it was.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I have always liked it for what it is/was. Is it a profound piece compared to most of Beethoven's other pieces? No. But is it a great example of the sort of bombast one might write to celebrate a military victory? IMO, yes! To me, almost anything Beethoven wrote is/was worthwhile at the very least, including that in the 'fluff category.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

KenOC said:


> It would be fun to hear the first version of the piece, as written for Malzel's Panharmonicon, a mechanical orchestra. Don't think it's ever been recorded that way, or if a panharmonicon exists, or even if anybody knows exactly what it was.


The last surviving Panharmonicon is believed to have been destroyed in World War II. There are some photos of it and our attempt to synthesize what it sounded like on our Wellington's Victory page:

http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess108


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

When I hear it I can excuse Beethoven because an artist has to eat like anyone else!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Great article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington%27s_Victory

Includes his famous quote: "What I s*** (scheisse) is better than anything you could ever think up!"


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I listened again just to make sure I wasn't in error in my own disdain. I wasn't. I appreciate that an artist has to eat -- but so do I! Okay, the mini-fugal section isn't too horrible, but the rest is unforgivably boring. 

I'd be interested to know how much of a Beethoven fan are those who tend toward liking it? There is nothing intrinsically Beethoven-ish about it to my ears.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

Weston said:


> I listened again just to make sure I wasn't in error in my own disdain. I wasn't. I appreciate that an artist has to eat -- but so do I! Okay, the mini-fugal section isn't too horrible, but the rest is unforgivably boring.
> 
> I'd be interested to know how much of a Beethoven fan are those who tend toward liking it? There is nothing intrinsically Beethoven-ish about it to my ears.


Despite thinking the piece was fun on my first (and only) listen, I think I have to agree that it doesn't sound anything like beethoven.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I applaud Wellington's victory. That little cheese-eating psychopath needed to be stopped. But I could do without the celebration piece.

Veni, vidi, vici … eek!


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