# Conductor characteristics



## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

Hi everyone. I'm quite new here and this is my first thread. I really appreciate all the incredible experience and wisdom available here. Thanks to all. 
I have long been intrigued how one can have a favourite conductor. I have no where near that degree of insight into the various characteristics that would allow one to favour a particular conductor(s). One day I hope to be there. I would imagine years of comparative listening are required. 
Nevertheless, I would love to hear specific descriptions of your favourite conductors. More categoric or defininitive than general terms such as 'good, great, boring, dull etc'. I understand that much is subjective, but I am curious how much so? How descriptive can we go before contradiction sets in completely? Please feel free to comment how you listen and learn to appreciate a particular quality or style.


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

I'll go first (and embarass myself with my ignorance).

For Mahler, when I want to hear emotionally charged, over-the-top sentimentality, I listen to Bernstein or Mehta. If I want intellectual precision and hearing every voice in the piece, I listen to Boulez. If I want it all, I listen to Michael Tilson Thomas.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

sbmonty said:


> Hi everyone. I'm quite new here and this is my first thread. I really appreciate all the incredible experience and wisdom available here. Thanks to all.
> I have long been intrigued how one can have a favourite conductor. I have no where near that degree of insight into the various characteristics that would allow one to favour a particular conductor(s). One day I hope to be there. I would imagine years of comparative listening are required......... Please feel free to comment how you listen and learn to appreciate a particular quality or style.


This is a very good question - and there is much to include in a complete answer. You are right, it does take alot of listening, comparing different recordings - same work, different conductors, different orchestras, etc...
If you have access to a decent library - check out a few versions of the same work - say Beethoven Sym #5, or Tchaikovsky 5, Schubert #9, whatever... and compare them...

Some quick thoughts OTTOMH - listen for tempo [what speed they take], clarity [can you hear different instruments or choirs], rhythm and articulation - is it sharp, hard-edged or more smooth and rounded?? orchestral sound, what's the emphasis?? - brassy and bright, or a darker smoother, more string dominated sound?? is there good dynamic contrast - soft to loud...or is it too much "middle dynamic" - never gets really soft, never gets really loud?? is the conductor driving it ahead, or is it more laid back?? does the tempo drag, the music sort of plod along?? or is there forward momentum, is it driving ahead....is it frantic or sloppy sounding...too fast, too pushed?? is it interesting?? or does your mind wander??....
there are many more aspects to hear, but these are some basics that can get you going. 
You will start to listen for these characteristics and you'll form your own opinions on what you like the best....this of course, may change the more you listen...that's one of the great things about enjoying music - there is always more to explore.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Much of my view of conductors has been from seeing the backs of many of them :lol: how they seemed to communicate with the orchestra and what the end result was. Some that I have seen are Zubin Mehta, Carlo Maria Giulini, John Barbirolli, Colin Davis, Simon Rattle, Pierre Boulez, Claudio Abbado, Georg Solti, Riccardo Muti and probably quite a few others that I can't bring to mind at this point. The ones who most impressed me in a positive way were Barbirolli, Giulini, Davis, Abbado and Rattle. While they are all quite different, what is interesting is that they clearly have a definite viewpoint on the music, can see the long line of the work and know how to make you feel that you have been on a well-thought-out journey and reached a real destination. That is not to say that the others don't do that (although I have my opinions about some of them!), but they often left me with the feeing that their personal biases outweighed the composer's intent.

A suggestion for you, there is a documentary film available on YouTube called _The Art of Conducting_. It shows many well known 20th century conductorfs, inclludes comments by some of them and commentary from those who worked with them. Included are Furtwangler, Bernstein, Klemperer, Karajan, Toscanini and Stokowski.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Conductors are idiosyncratic and each will add their own twist to a work
Some are champions of a particular style or body of works and that can yield positive results in terms of consistent performances, thus giving me a good place to start when looking to broaden my horizons e.g. Vernon Handley is consistently good with British composers
I never realised until I joined TC just how much variation in interpretation is out there, and if you have a streaming service then I can recommend digging in to a few works you are familiar with. Much pleasure has come my way comparing various Beethoven and Haydn performances.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

This is a very good question - and there is much to include in a complete answer. You are right, it does take alot of listening, comparing different recordings - same work, different conductors, different orchestras, etc...
If you have access to a decent library - check out a few versions of the same work - say Beethoven Sym #5, or Tchaikovsky 5, Schubert #9, whatever... and compare them...



> Some quick thoughts OTTOMH - listen for tempo [what speed they take], clarity [can you hear different instruments or choirs], rhythm and articulation - is it sharp, hard-edged or more smooth and rounded?? orchestral sound, what's the emphasis?? - brassy and bright, or a darker smoother, more string dominated sound?? is there good dynamic contrast - soft to loud...or is it too much "middle dynamic" - never gets really soft, never gets really loud?? is the conductor driving it ahead, or is it more laid back?? does the tempo drag, the music sort of plod along?? or is there forward momentum, is it driving ahead....is it frantic or sloppy sounding...too fast, too pushed?? is it interesting?? or does your mind wander??....
> there are many more aspects to hear, but these are some basics that can get you going.
> You will start to listen for these characteristics and you'll form your own opinions on what you like the best....this of course, may change the more you listen...that's one of the great things about enjoying music - there is always more to explore.


Excellent suggestions. Thank you.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

Much of my view of conductors has been from seeing the backs of many of them :lol: how they seemed to communicate with the orchestra and what the end result was. Some that I have seen are Zubin Mehta, Carlo Maria Giulini, John Barbirolli, Colin Davis, Simon Rattle, Pierre Boulez, Claudio Abbado, Georg Solti, Riccardo Muti and probably quite a few others that I can't bring to mind at this point. The ones who most impressed me in a positive way were Barbirolli, Giulini, Davis, Abbado and Rattle. While they are all quite different, what is interesting is that they clearly have a definite viewpoint on the music, can see the long line of the work and know how to make you feel that you have been on a well-thought-out journey and reached a real destination. That is not to say that the others don't do that (although I have my opinions about some of them!), but they often left me with the feeing that their personal biases outweighed the composer's intent.



> A suggestion for you, there is a documentary film available on YouTube called _The Art of Conducting_. It shows many well known 20th century conductorfs, inclludes comments by some of them and commentary from those who worked with them. Included are Furtwangler, Bernstein, Klemperer, Karajan, Toscanini and Stokowski.


I will check this out. Thanks Becca.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

I think it is a lot of personal preference and listening and identifying characteristics that draw you as the listener in. 

Trying to give a simple, easy to hear example I would think of comparing Furtwangler to Toscanini. Furtwangler always wanted a very thick and heavy sound from his orchestra. Toscanini on the other hand favored a thinner, tighter sound from his orchestra. 

In general I feel Furtwangler was more about the moment and trying to create drama with his conducting. He might try to do something different in concert. Sometimes the orchestra might not have been ready for this and you might get some sloppy playing for example but Furtwangler was willing to sacrifice technique for the moment. 

Toscanini was more thought out where he would demand more orchestral precision and maybe sacrifice the moment for clarity and more fidelity to the score. He might feel the score has all the drama you need if you play it with precision, clarity and energy where Furtwangler might feel that the live atmosphere might yield to more expression of the moment and how he was feeling or perhaps what he felt the audience might be feeling.

Keep in mind, these are very general statements of how I perceive them but I know some others who would agree with me.

Neither of them is wrong in my opinion or necessarily better. Some might want to hear the score as it was written, some might feel that it needs more interpretation in the moment. Both work for me and thus I like both. But I know lots of other people that want to hear the score exactly as written. No changes to the dynamics or tempo, etc. Others are more free and want to hear what creative energy someone might use to put their own stamp on it.

That's more of where you have to decide what works for you and what you like best and sometimes both work and sometimes you like one on specific works and/or composers. Others works and composers you might only want to hear it one way. Those are all personal decisions you'll have to make.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I agree with Realdealblues, and would add only that my preference for performing style often varies with the repertoire, and a fundamental preference that the performance represents a detailed knowledge of the score, an attempt to realize what's there, and nothing just for the sake of originality or showmanship.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

realdealblues said:


> Toscanini was more thought out where he would demand more orchestral precision and maybe sacrifice the moment for clarity and more fidelity to the score....
> Keep in mind, these are very general statements of how I perceive them but I know some others who would agree with me......
> Neither of them is wrong in my opinion or necessarily better.


I don't think that Toscanini or other "precision" conductors,like Reiner and Solti sacrifice anything in their expression of the drama and intensity of the music - the precision is simply a powerful vehicle, a tool, to express that drama and intensity. Toscanini, Reiner and Solti really let it rip when needed - incredible intensity of sound - and it is balanced, together and precise!!
some other control freaks - ie -Szell, von Karajan - are accused, with some validity, of keeping things "bolted down too tightly", the lid clamped on too firmly in the interests of precision and balance. this, for me, is certainly true of Karajan - he just won't put the pedal to the metal...
Szell, maybe sometimes too stiff and precise, but when he lets the orchestra go, opens the gate, it is really amazing. like Reiner, Toscanini and Solti, the precision is there, but the drama and intensity just burst forth...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MarkW said:


> I agree with Realdealblues, and would add only that my preference for performing style often varies with the repertoire, and a fundamental preference that the performance represents a detailed knowledge of the score, an attempt to realize what's there, and nothing just for the sake of originality or showmanship.


Very strong and valued point.
+ 1


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Heck148 said:


> I don't think that Toscanini or other "precision" conductors,like Reiner and Solti sacrifice anything in their expression of the drama and intensity of the music - the precision is simply a powerful vehicle, a tool, to express that drama and intensity. Toscanini, Reiner and Solti really let it rip when needed - incredible intensity of sound - and it is balanced, together and precise!!
> some other control freaks - ie -Szell, von Karajan - are accused, with some validity, of keeping things "bolted down too tightly", the lid clamped on too firmly in the interests of precision and balance. this, for me, is certainly true of Karajan - he just won't put the pedal to the metal...
> Szell, maybe sometimes too stiff and precise, but when he lets the orchestra go, opens the gate, it is really amazing. like Reiner, Toscanini and Solti, the precision is there, but the drama and intensity just burst forth...


I agree which is why I added that it was a very general statement trying to give the OP a very general idea of what I was talking about. They all had the ability to let things go when they wanted too. That's why I have pretty much every recording available from Toscanini, Reiner, Szell, Solti, Karajan and Furtwangler.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks to all. 

So far it seems precision and more close attention to the score applies to:
Toscanini
Reiner
Solti
They play close attention to detail but can manipulate the dynamic range without losing control of tempo?

Van Karajan and Szell are also very detail oriented and more likely to remain true to the score without personalization? 
Furtwangler is less detail oriented, with more personalization of the score to achieve dramatic effect.
Does this seem fair so far?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

sbmonty said:


> Thanks to all.
> 
> Van Karajan and Szell are also very detail oriented and more likely to remain true to the score without personalization?
> Furtwangler is less detail oriented, with more personalization of the score to achieve dramatic effect.
> Does this seem fair so far?


No, Von Karajan did a lot of personalization particular in regard to the overall sound. It is not for nothing that he has been called the Emperor of Legato. Beautiful sound was what it was all about for him in later years.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

There's just a lot of little bits and pieces that you pick up from listening to the music and to what people are saying about the conductors. During my initial explorations of classical music, I picked a recording with a lot of views on YouTube, and I made mental note of which conductors were working for me most often and which were not. Since no conductor is the same all the time, I paid attention when people would describe particular recordings as typical or atypical of a conductor and why.

One conductor choice I have learned is that Christopher Hogwood likes to take every possible repeat in a Mozart symphony, which explains why his are almost always longer than Adam Fischer's versions.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

sbmonty said:


> Thanks to all.
> So far it seems precision and more close attention to the score applies to:
> Toscanini
> Reiner
> ...


Sort of....but not quite...being attentive to the score does not preclude "personalization".

It's more like precision and, balance and rhythmic accuracy are tools thru which drama, intensity and expression my be presented.



> Furtwangler is less detail oriented, with more personalization of the score to achieve dramatic effect.


yes, that is close - the overall effect was the goal, the details not so much...
Karajan once said that <<pay attention to all the details, and the big idea will take care of itself>>, or something to that effect. I don't buy it, the details are vital, but they must be considered with the "big picture" in mind.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Paying too much attention to the details ends up with a sense of the piece being micro-managed when it should seem to flow organically. "Pay attention to the big idea and the details will take care of themselves" :lol:


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

I myself tend to favor more precise, accurate conducting and playing, although I definitely can appreciate conductors who are willing to be a little more free. However, this differs by the composer too, as I am more likely to favor a less accurate, more emotional performance of a Tchaikovsky symphony than a similar performance of Bruckner.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

If you have access to a steaming service then I would suggest jump in and have a listen to some of the suggestions and let your ears decide
If you don't have a streaming service then I would strongly recommend one unless you have deep pockets and want to buy multiple versions of the same work.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks. Good idea. I have been on Classics Online but they just recently reduced their catalogue extensively, at least in higher resolution streaming options. 
I compared Dvorak No. 9. Kertasz/VP and Rowicki/LSO yesterday. I found I preferred the Kertasz a little more. The strings seemed brighter and more resolved. The music seemed more forward driven, and not as relaxed. Some of that may be the recording itself though. But it was enjoyable to compare. Thanks for the help.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Important to remember - when doing A-B comparisons of recordings, try to set the volume level the same for each sample...people will often interpret louder as better recorded, better performed, etc, when that may not be the case at all. one recording may have been produced at a louder recording level.
This was an old Hi-Fi Stereo Store trick...the salesman, if pushing a certain brand of speaker, amp, etc...would set up an A-B comparison in the audio showroom, but he'd make sure the one he wanted to sell was played back at a higher volume....sleazy, but effective if one is not wary....


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

As others have noted, it's a complicated issue, without a sound byte friendly response. I suppose I look for a Conductor that really appears to be inside the composer, who has mastered the rhetoric of the creator, who doesn't seem to think that there any throw away moments


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

sbmonty said:


> Hi everyone. I'm quite new here and this is my first thread. I really appreciate all the incredible experience and wisdom available here. Thanks to all.
> I have long been intrigued how one can have a favourite conductor. I have no where near that degree of insight into the various characteristics that would allow one to favour a particular conductor(s). One day I hope to be there. I would imagine years of comparative listening are required.
> Nevertheless, I would love to hear specific descriptions of your favourite conductors. More categoric or defininitive than general terms such as 'good, great, boring, dull etc'. I understand that much is subjective, but I am curious how much so? How descriptive can we go before contradiction sets in completely? Please feel free to comment how you listen and learn to appreciate a particular quality or style.


The following link comes to my mind, check this out:

http://www.ted.com/talks/itay_talgam_lead_like_the_great_conductors


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Of course, evaluating different conductors is such a highly personal and subjective thing . I've been listening to so many different ones since I was just a teenager nearly 50 years ago , I've learned to try not to be dogmatic in judging them . 
There is no one right way to conduct any given orchestral work , and no conductor can ever give the "definitive" live or studio performance of one . It's very easy to get imprinted on the first recording you hear and prefer it to others, but I've heard so many different ones I can no longer choose one favorite recording of whatever orchestral work by Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms , Dvorak, Tchaikovsky , Bruckner ,Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev , Shostakovich or other great composers . 
I've certainly gotten imprinted on certain recordings in the past, but I'm long over this . And there are still so many recordings of orchestral masterpieces I haven't heard but would like to . 
One factor in imprinting on recordings is tempo. If you listen to different recordings of this or that orchestral works, you will notice that some conductors choose faster or slower tempi . If your first recording of say, a Beethoven symphony is by conductor X, when you hear other recordings, they may seem either too slow or too fast to you . But you can get accustomed to different approaches .
For example, if your first set of the 9 Beethoven symphonies is the famous one on RCA by Arturo Toscanini and the NBC symphonies , and then you listen to the equally famous one by Otto Klemperer and the Philharmonia orchestra , you may find Klemperer's much too slow . The Toscanini recordings are swift, propulsive and impetuous , even aggressive. But Klemperer chooses the exact opposite approach . His tempi are considerably slower , and his approach stresses the music's grandeur and solemnity . The symphonies seem hewn out of granite . You may not like Klemperer's tempi at first .
If your first set is the one by Klemperer, Toscanini may seem rushed , hectic , punchy and petulant .
Which conductor is right ? Impossible to say .
In one of the very long symphonies by Bruckner and Mahler, there may be as much as ten minutes or more difference in timing between different recordings by different conductors .
Some have said that you really don't know any orchestral masterpiece until you;ve heard several different recordings of it, and I agree ! Comparisons are fascinating .


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

I was fortunate enough to once get a 'return' ticket to a VPO concert when I was in Vienna-Bruckner 6th and Mozart 26th as well as some modern piece-Franz Welser Most was the conductor but from my seat (while the sound was magnificent) I could not see him-it made little difference to me!

I know I admire certain conductors-Harnoncourt,Fischer,Jarvi,Belohlavek,Vanska,Abbado,Oramo and stay away from Hvk (generally)Solti,Mehta-problem is I know I have acquired prejudices but I cannot recall precisely why!!!


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

jim prideaux said:


> I was fortunate enough to once get a 'return' ticket to a VPO concert when I was in Vienna-Bruckner 6th and Mozart 26th as well as some modern piece-Franz Welser Most was the conductor but from my seat (while the sound was magnificent) I could not see him-it made little difference to me!
> 
> I know I admire certain conductors-Harnoncourt,Fischer,Jarvi,Belohlavek,Vanska,Abbado,Oramo and stay away from Hvk (generally)Solti,Mehta-problem is I know I have acquired prejudices but I cannot recall precisely why!!!


I also agree with the previous 'poster' regarding first hearings-Ifirst heard Pollini,Abbado and the VPO performing Brahms 2nd PC on DG and from there I established my view of the work.

I must now appear to be some kind of half witted megalomaniac having posted the same stuff twice so before anyone starts 'kicking off' apologies to all.


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

superhorn said:


> Of course, evaluating different conductors is such a highly personal and subjective thing . I've been listening to so many different ones since I was just a teenager nearly 50 years ago , I've learned to try not to be dogmatic in judging them .
> There is no one right way to conduct any given orchestral work , and no conductor can ever give the "definitive" live or studio performance of one . It's very easy to get imprinted on the first recording you hear and prefer it to others, but I've heard so many different ones I can no longer choose one favorite recording of whatever orchestral work by Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms , Dvorak, Tchaikovsky , Bruckner ,Mahler, Sibelius, Prokofiev , Shostakovich or other great composers .
> I've certainly gotten imprinted on certain recordings in the past, but I'm long over this . And there are still so many recordings of orchestral masterpieces I haven't heard but would like to .
> One factor in imprinting on recordings is tempo. If you listen to different recordings of this or that orchestral works, you will notice that some conductors choose faster or slower tempi . If your first recording of say, a Beethoven symphony is by conductor X, when you hear other recordings, they may seem either too slow or too fast to you . But you can get accustomed to different approaches .
> ...


Thanks. That's quite helpful. I am quite curious to listen and compare multiple recordings. That does seem truly fascinating to me. I honestly don't feel there is a correct version and the differences probably will keep the work from ever becoming stale to the listener.


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