# If you compose opera, what do you want out of a librettist?



## sunandshadow

Hope it's ok for me to post this here - it's partly about being a composer and how the art of composition interacts with having a libretto to work around, but it's not directly about composition.

I'm a writer, not too much background in music besides having written a few sets of song lyrics. But I have this idea for an opera libretto that's been bugging me. I wanted to know if anyone is actually interested in original librettos (libretti?), and what qualities do you think they should have to be good? What's helpful to get from a writer, and what's annoying?


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## sunandshadow

Actually, if you have ever composed music to go with lyrics of any kind, or would like to do so, feel free to respond. Just specify what kind of music and lyrics you are talking about.


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## emiellucifuge

I have set poetry to music and once began to draft an opera although I never finished it. I can tell you it is rare to find text that is suitable for opera. It needs to be a great script in itself, often the scripts of plays make a good start. But, a play is still unsuitable - it needs to be simplified, less characters, only a few plot points so that it can be a musical experience first and foremost.


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## sunandshadow

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus of the interviews with librettists I've been reading, and I can see it in the operas I've been watching too. The music is at its best when it's about intense emotion. Therefore for the scenes to be harmonious with the music, the scenes, while they do convey the plot, have to be ABOUT displaying a sequence of intense emotions. Each scene needs to surge forward before it wears out the interest that emotion holds for the audience. Probably why the most popular operas are those which have comedy, angst, excitement, anger, and romance all in there, taking turns so the audience doesn't tire of any of them. Some are more primarily one emotion or the other, but it can't be just sad sad sad or funny funny funny, because that would get old fast. It would be distasteful, like eating too much candy. And the plot development has the most powerful hold on the audience when it is linear; a mixture of suspense and surprise, but a minimum of things happening in parallel or otherwise diverging, because they can distract from the main thread. That's because of the emotion again, people can only feel one emotion at a time, and there a sort of emotional metabolism that makes some transitions between two emotions much more natural and satisfying than others.

People often use that phrase "tour de force" about a great concert or album, and that seems to be what to aim for when designing a good musical theater experience.


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## Turangalîla

The libretto itself must lend to the flow of the music—if your librettist does not know what he's doing, the natural emphasis of the text may not work with your intention for the music. And make sure that the librettist does not establish a "sad scene" so to speak, or a "funny scene". He must juxtapose more complex emotions to keep it engaging and interesting.

And avoid over-clichéd archetypes. Interesting characters make an interesting opera.


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## drpraetorus

I want a libretist who can read my mind. One who knows my work and personality well enough to know what works and what doesn't with my music. I would like a colaberator rather than a just drop it in the mail corespondent. Think Mozart and DaPonte or Strauss and Hoffmansthal or Wagner and Wagner.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Straightforward sung dialogue:


> Chou Enlai: Your flight was smooth, I hope?
> Nixon: Oh yes. Smoother than usual I guess. Yes, it was very pleasant. We stopped in Hawai'i for a day


 etc. I can't remember all the words right now but it's one of the best librettos ever written IMO.

As for more descriptive, more emotionally sung sections things like this are good:


> Isolde: Mild und leise
> wie er Lächelt,
> wie das Auge
> hold er öffnet -
> sent ihr's, Freunde?
> Seht ihr's nicht?
> Immer Lichte
> wie er leuchtet,
> stern-umstrahlt?


 etc. Not too many words per line because it takes longer to sing a word than to speak it.

I write my own libretti because I know exactly what I want. I've just started working on a libretto for an opera based on Shakespeare's _Twelfth Night_ and I decided to have some kind of prelude or introduction for chorus and orchestra that leads into the first scene describing a boat in a storm. It isn't very good compared to the two excerpts above, but anyway:


> Offstage choir: The ocean is a mighty beast,
> The ship its prey, the storm its temper.
> The beast's coral teeth chew its meal,
> Spitting out the bones of wood.
> 
> The fearsome animal strangles its prey,
> Licking its lips in delight as it feasts.
> The people wail in fear and terror,
> And a few escape merely as crumbs.


Rhyming librettos are overrated.


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## PetrB

A workable dramatic story: the premise of opera (melos + Drama = melody + Drama = Drama which is sung.) was a dramatic / emotional enough story which demands declamation beyond ordinary speech, ergo, at an emotional pitch high enough it needed to be sung rather than spoken.

A really great knowledge of singers, singing, and more to the point singable text. Much happens in singing in different ranges of the voice where the spoken word would not present a problem, but the vowels, especially, in the upper ranges of any type voice can get highly problematic.

Stage timing, including how long a scene change, costume change, etc. take. 

The traditional formats (both opera and music theater) of the 'in-one' in-two' / in front of the curtain, etc. mechanics of keeping the density and rhythm of voice(s) and activity varied, and to the purpose of the book, pacing and overall effectiveness of the show.

A command of the well-known artifice of somehow writing condensed text to sound like natural speech while still containing the complete story within several acts.

The rhyming thing: currently, more often found in musical theater and pop songs than contemporary opera. Interior rhyme can be quite musical and a less visible 'glue' to hold the text together.


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## Crudblud

Well, if I was so intent on writing an opera I would do it all myself. I'm not saying there's no chance I would be intrigued by someone else's words enough to set them, in fact I am currently doing the ground work for a setting of a sonnet cycle by quite a famous author, but if I really had the urge to write an opera I wouldn't go out looking for someone else to write half of it for me.


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## sunandshadow

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> The libretto itself must lend to the flow of the music-if your librettist does not know what he's doing, the natural emphasis of the text may not work with your intention for the music. And make sure that the librettist does not establish a "sad scene" so to speak, or a "funny scene". He must juxtapose more complex emotions to keep it engaging and interesting.
> 
> And avoid over-clichéd archetypes. Interesting characters make an interesting opera.


May I ask for some examples of operas you like, and the scenes in them you think are the best? Because when I think of my favorite scenes from operas, they usually star a strongly archetypal character expressing a fairly pure emotion, or progression between two clear emotions. For example, I'm a fan of patter songs, which usually express a person who is pleased with their own cunning and a bit egotistical - the Factotum aria from the Barber of Seville is a really well known example, though I actually like the one sung by the snake oil salesman Dulcamara in The Elixir of Love better. Or, I like the kind of song that introduces a comic character, like the bird-catcher in The Magic Flute. And I like the kind of song that expresses the angst of unrequited love.

But, songs and scenes that tell a story (which usually involves a whole sequence of emotions) can also be great; so I'm not saying I _only_ like scenes that are purely funny or sad.


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## sunandshadow

drpraetorus said:


> I want a libretist who can read my mind. One who knows my work and personality well enough to know what works and what doesn't with my music. I would like a collaborator rather than a just drop it in the mail corespondent. Think Mozart and DaPonte or Strauss and Hoffmansthal or Wagner and Wagner.


I think it would be an excellent idea for any librettist to familiarize themself with the music of a composer they were going to work with; but I don't think it's practical to expect any librettist to have the time to spend on becoming very familiar with the work of someone who hasn't yet indicated a pretty strong interest in working that librettist or any available librettist.


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## sunandshadow

Crudblud said:


> Well, if I was so intent on writing an opera I would do it all myself. I'm not saying there's no chance I would be intrigued by someone else's words enough to set them, in fact I am currently doing the ground work for a setting of a sonnet cycle by quite a famous author, but if I really had the urge to write an opera I wouldn't go out looking for someone else to write half of it for me.


This is a common opinion to find among artists as well, that if they wanted to work on a graphic novel or comic book they would do both the writing and the art. This is one of the factors contributing to the fact that there are always far more would-be graphic novel writers looking to team up with an artist than vice versa. I haven't known enough composers to say if the same applies here. Anyone have an opinion on whether this is so?

I don't have an opinion on whether it's better to collaborate or do everything oneself. I find collaborating more satisfying than working alone, no matter what sort of project I'm collaborating on, but that's just me. If I had been able to develop the skills to be a good composer or artist, I'm not sure I'd want to work with a writer. But as a writer it does get frustrating to be in an environment where there are more writers available than there is demand for them, with the resulting implications that writing might be somehow less valuable or less difficult than other art forms.


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## Crudblud

sunandshadow said:


> This is a common opinion to find among artists as well, that if they wanted to work on a graphic novel or comic book they would do both the writing and the art. This is one of the factors contributing to the fact that there are always far more would-be graphic novel writers looking to team up with an artist than vice versa. I haven't known enough composers to say if the same applies here. Anyone have an opinion on whether this is so?
> 
> I don't have an opinion on whether it's better to collaborate or do everything oneself. I find collaborating more satisfying than working alone, no matter what sort of project I'm collaborating on, but that's just me. If I had been able to develop the skills to be a good composer or artist, I'm not sure I'd want to work with a writer. But as a writer it does get frustrating to be in an environment where there are more writers available than there is demand for them, with the resulting implications that writing might be somehow less valuable or less difficult than other art forms.


If I was going to write a comic book (and I would love to) I would definitely need an artist because comic book art (and drawing in general) is something that I can't do, and I have no intention in sullying that great tradition. I would love to make video games, but I need developers, animators etc. because I can't do those things myself, and I have no intention of insulting the immensely talented people (at least, some of them are) that do those things for a living by being so arrogant. However, language was my thing long before music entered the picture and remains so to this day, I would feel confident in writing words and music because I am at home in both mediums.

From a purely personal perspective, collaboration depends not only on the mindset coming in to the project (if it's entirely my idea, I expect things to be done my way) but also on the person I'm working with. I've been to jam sessions with some very creatively stilted people who had no interest in exploring possibilities and extremities, on the other hand one of my best friends is considerably wilder than I am improvisationally and we can play off each other's ideas and really get somewhere. Also, I have a problem that many would call "a dislike of people", not misanthropy per se, but it's true that I do prefer to work in isolation.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^You could do Jackson Pollock style art for your comic book.


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## Crudblud

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> ^You could do Jackson Pollock style art for your comic book.


I could, but I'm not sure how effective that would be for a narrative medium. A better artist than I could probably find some way of making it work, of course, there are some brilliant experimental artists working in the comics industry these days, but then I'm sure they would have their own unique ideas on the art style.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Crudblud said:


> I could, but I'm not sure how effective that would be for a narrative medium. A better artist than I could probably find some way of making it work, of course, there are some brilliant experimental artists working in the comics industry these days, but then I'm sure they would have their own unique ideas on the art style.


You could do Carl Andre style art for your comic book.


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## Crudblud

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You could do Carl Andre style art for your comic book.


But I hate minimalism. =(


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Crudblud said:


> But I hate minimalism. =(


You can do Jacques Louis David style art for your comic book.


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