# Recordings that should never have been made



## DavidA

I'll start off with three:

*D F-D's final Wintereisse* with Perahia is a disaster because the voice had then completely gone. Unworthy of a great artist.

*Karajan's final set of Beethoven symphonies* are not bad but simply don't add anything to his legacy to what was there before. Even the recordings are not first rate.Pity!

*Callas second Tosca* was made as a potential money spinner by EMI. By that time Callas' voice was a shadow of what it had been, Gobbi was over the hill as far as the voice was concerned and Bergonzi - great tenor - was not really happy at being Cavoradossi. Put in the hum drum conducting of Pretre and you have a recording which makes you want to turn back to de Sabata where everything was right.

Anyone else got any thought on recordings that shouldn't have been made?


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## elgar's ghost

If we are talking A-listers then I've always thought that Sir Colin Davis's Bruckner 6th with the LSO failed to add to lustre to the reputation of either conductor or orchestra. Even allowing for the difficulties many conductors have had with the 6th over the decades this performance seems detached...uninvolved...bland - curious for a man who managed to conduct the likes of Berlioz with such energy and passion. Still, it does have its supporters so maybe it's a classic case of 'diff'rent strokes fer diff'rent folks'.


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## Blancrocher

Not to derail the thread right off the bat, but I'd be interested in your go-to for the Bruckner 6, elgars ghost.


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## elgar's ghost

Blancrocher said:


> Not to derail the thread right off the bat, but I'd be interested in your go-to for the Bruckner 6, elgars ghost.


My pleasure, B. I can't obviously claim to have heard them all, but the 6ths I like most are those by Klemperer, Stein and Skrowaczewski. Of the heavy hitters many people like Karajan's but he didn't seem to really nail it for me like he did with the other middle/later symphonies. I have other recordings that range from OK to quite good (plus a recording by Haitink on Haennsler which hasn't really sunk in due to infrequent plays) but the Davis is the one which I can't imaging playing with any trace of relish unless I undergo a serious Road to Damascus conversion.


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## Polyphemus

May I add one to 'Elgar's Ghost's' excellent suggestions.









It is really good.


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## Musicophile

Some may disagree, but IMHO anything from Anne-Sophie Mutter playing with Karajan (her more recent recordings are a completely different story).









You get the bombastic CD-era late Karajan and a young Anne-Sophie that had enormous technical talent and a beautiful tone, but tended to overdo everything.


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## Mahlerian

Amateurs should not be encouraged in this way. Kaplan doesn't give the piece any kind of coherent interpretation, and it's only the fact that the VPO and soloists are first-class that keeps this recording together at all.


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## joen_cph

Overall, countless provincial or repetitively uinteresting recordings of the standard repertoire, in all genres.


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## bigshot

I agree. But those are relatively benign. I wish forums had more discussions about great music instead of talking about composers who were *** holes and lousy performances by musicians who aren't up to the task. Sometimes it seems like all the discussion is about everything BUT the music itself.


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## Pugg

Muti: conducting Verdi's Don Carlo, 
Must be the worst recording he made, extreme bad sounds and the cast is not up to it.
(To put it mildly).

Another disaster;Te Kanawa as Violetta and Krauss as Alfredo in La Traviata on Philips.


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## Guest

Hilde Somer's recording of Ginastera's Piano Concerto No.2. Amateurish beyond belief, horrid sound, and glaringly audible edits.


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## TxllxT

Almost all recordings of Concentus Musicus Wien with Nikolaus Harnoncourt, where Alice Harnoncourt is playing the 1st violin. Harsh, false intonations, screeching violin sound, ugh, ugh, (- I'm starting to cough -), horror of horrors. Nikolaus without Alice is a complete different world.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I can't think of anything other than Kaplan......perhaps Boulez's recordings of Beethoven? Idk. Everything exists in comparison to other recordings so we know what's good and what's not!


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## Celloman

David Helfgott plays Rach 3:


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## DavidA

Celloman said:


> David Helfgott plays Rach 3:


About as credible as the film Shine I think!


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## DavidA

Sermon's late recordings of the Mozart piano concertos with Abbado were sadly done when he was past it as a pianist. A shame as he was a great interpreter of the concertos in his prime.


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## DavidA

DavidA said:


> Sermon's late recordings of the Mozart piano concertos with Abbado were sadly done when he was past it as a pianist. A shame as he was a great interpreter of the concertos in his prime.


Sorry, for Sermon read Serkin


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## Strange Magic

I do not care for Ashkenazy's extremely lugubrious interpretations of the several Sibelius tone poems he's recorded. En Saga sounds like the sled deep in the taiga is mired in molasses.


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## geralmar

I have no expertise in this, but I've read that Guiomar Novaes's recordings for Vox were made when she was far past her prime and do her reputation no justice.


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## Pat Fairlea

I agree that Ashkenazy should have left Sibelius alone. His symphony 4 is unremitting gloom without the grand scale and no hint of underlying structure.


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## 3raxftw

I can't say Zimerman's recordings of the Brahms piano concertos with Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic ever seemed to live up to the expectations you would have going into a recording from performers of that caliber. Kind of a shame really, I expected something amazing when I listened to those recordings the first time.


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## Animal the Drummer

My expectations of Rattle aren't generally high anyway TBH. Orchestras clearly like him and play well for him, but all too often I find his recordings - as I have found his live performances - too studied, intent on "doing something with" the music and nudging the listener's elbow rather than letting the music tell its own story. The one exception to that that I've come across is his accompaniment of Alfred Brendel in the Beethoven concertos, where he seems to check this tendency most of the time (perhaps because there's someone of Brendel's seniority at the piano?).


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## Stirling

Shine was fine... which not to be said of the recording.


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## Stirling

Or it be that you find Brendel more to taste than Rattle...


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## joen_cph

DavidA said:


> Sermon's late recordings of the Mozart piano concertos with Abbado were sadly done when he was past it as a pianist. A shame as he was a great interpreter of the concertos in his prime.


Agree. 
Among his last recordings, the Telarc Beethoven concertos with Ozawa, or the Reger Bach Variations on CBS-Sony were better.


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## joen_cph

Strange Magic said:


> I do not care for Ashkenazy's extremely lugubrious interpretations of the several Sibelius tone poems he's recorded. En Saga sounds like the sled deep in the taiga is mired in molasses.


The opposite for me concerning _En Saga_, but in the early Decca recording he made: 
I have never heard the fanfares at the end done better - the LP version however had better sound of them than the CD transfer.


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## joen_cph

3raxftw said:


> I can't say Zimerman's recordings of the Brahms piano concertos with Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic ever seemed to live up to the expectations you would have going into a recording from performers of that caliber. Kind of a shame really, I expected something amazing when I listened to those recordings the first time.


Same here, and the latest Chopin concerti on DG too IMO.


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## 3raxftw

joen_cph said:


> Same here, and the latest Chopin concerti on DG too IMO.


The ones with the Polish Festival Orchestra? I actually really enjoy those, mainly because the orchestral accompaniment really shines in a way that most recordings don't come close to, which I thought made it really unique. I also felt like the liberties Zimerman took actually worked and didn't detract from the music, unlike some of his other recordings. I can see how you wouldn't like them though, they can drag quite a bit at times.

What's your go to on those Chopin concertos by the way? I've had trouble finding a well recommended set.


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## joen_cph

3raxftw said:


> The ones with the Polish Festival Orchestra? I actually really enjoy those, mainly because the orchestral accompaniment really shines in a way that most recordings don't come close to, which I thought made it really unique. I also felt like the liberties Zimerman took actually worked and didn't detract from the music, unlike some of his other recordings. I can see how you wouldn't like them though, they can drag quite a bit at times.
> 
> What's your go to on those Chopin concertos by the way? I've had trouble finding a well recommended set.


Yes, and I see your point too, since that Zimerman has received some good reviews.

I have mostly been concentrating on historical recordings as regards those concertos, but among the later ones, some I like are for example Li/Davis or Argerich/Dutoit/EMI in the 1st, and Pogorelich/Abbado in the 2nd.


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## joen_cph

geralmar said:


> I have no expertise in this, but I've read that Guiomar Novaes's recordings for Vox were made when she was far past her prime and do her reputation no justice.


There is a great Beethoven 4th Concerto with Klemperer on Vox (confusingly, there may even be two, but then only one of them (on Majestic bbh 701) is really good and has an unusual, fast 2nd Movement).
Some other stuff is quite ordinary, as far as I remember (Chopin, 2nd Concerto, Nocturnes).


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## DavidA

joen_cph said:


> Same here, and *the latest Chopin concerti on DG too IMO*.


these had contrasting reviews. His first recording of the concerti with Giulini was brilliant. One of the best.

Try also Argerich / Dutoit or for no 1 an Argerich performance at Lugano which is breathtaking.


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## DavidA

Casals made a recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto in the 1950s when his bowing arm was way past it.


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## Animal the Drummer

DavidA said:


> Casals made a recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto in the 1950s when his bowing arm was way past it.


That's true as far as it goes, but I still find it a treasurable performance so I certainly couldn't agree the recording should never have been made.

My nomination (and I take positively no pleasure in this, as he's a favourite of mine and was coming back from injury) is Murray Perahia's first Baroque recital. In places on that CD his control of tempo deserts him and the music accelerates away.


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