# Saint-Saens Organ Symphony...Your recommendations...



## Itullian

I don't have his work.
What recordings would you recommend?
Thanks :tiphat:


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## Chatellerault

When I think of this symphony I think about the organ and the acoustics.

The organ, unlike the piano, is not made in an industrial scale. Each instrument is unique and adapted to the church's ou concert hall's acoustics and size.

There are three ways to record it:

*1. In a concert hall provided with an organ* 
That was the case of two recordings from the early days of stereo, with French conductors and American orchestras, that were much loved by audiophiles back then, especially to test their equipment's bass, and they still stand the test of time:

Paul Paray with M. Dupré, organ (Detroit, 1957)
https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saëns-.../dp/B0000057L4/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_txt?ie=UTF8

C. Munch with B. Zamkochian, organ (Boston Symphony Hall, 1969)
https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saëns-Symphony-Organ-Debussy-Escales/dp/B0002TKFGI

*2. Bringing the orchestra to a church* 
For this work, I much prefer churches' echoing properties than a concert hall's dry acoustics. I still didn't choose my preferred recording but some good options are:

Georges Prêtre with M. Duruflé, organ (Church of St. Étienne du Mont, Paris, 1964)
https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saens-Symphony-Carnival-Poulenc-Animaux/dp/B00005NPJT

Jean Martinon with Bernard Gavoty, organ (Church of St. Louis des Invalides, Paris, 1975)
https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saëns-Five-Symphonies-Camille/dp/B00008PW6G

F-X. Roth with D. Roth, organ (Church of St. Sulpice, Paris, 2010)
https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saëns-Symphony-No-Piano-Concerto/dp/B003Z420JC

In these three recordings, the organist was then titular of that church, meaning they knew that organ better than anyone else. And you get three excellent French organs, two of them by the famous Aristide Cavaillé-Coll, same manufacturer from La Madeleine church where Saint-Saëns was titular organist (1857-1877, apparently he left the job when his agenda got filled with composing and touring as a piano virtuoso).

One reviewer from Amazon nails it:
In any case, this was recorded in the ultra-reverberant acoustic of _Salle Wagram in Paris _[wrong: recorded in the church where Duruflé was titular organist from 1929 to 1986], apparently concurrent with the organ and not with it dubbed in later as is often the practice. While the performance itself is grand, sonorously blended, and expansive; one gets the impression that the venue is as much on display as the music. Many orchestral details otherwise evident in modern recordings are consequently lost in the thick voluptuous velouté. However, I often enjoy hearing this symphony performed in a "natural" acoustic and as something other than an in-your-face woofer-busting "sonic spectacular".

*3. Overdubbing the organ to an orchestral recording*, like Barenboim (1975), Dutoit (1982) and Jansons (1994) did. While some orchestral detail, such as piano and woodwind parts, may be much clearer in a concert hall, I still prefer church acoustics.

According to one Amazon reviewer writing about the Jansons CD:
"It's also quite obvious that the orchestra and organ were recorded in two separate venues with very different acoustics that don't mesh together. They needn't have bothered, because in this symphony, the benchmark for hi-fi goosebumps is still the 1959 Charles Munch on RCA, where the truly earth-shaking organ co-exists peaceably with the orchestra in the same acoustic (Symphony Hall in Boston)."


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## D Smith

This is one of my favourite symphonies and I’ve collected many recordings. My favourite remains Daniel Chorzempa/Edo de Waart/Rotterdam for the conducting and orchestral sound. I also love the venerable Ormandy/E Power Biggs recording. Also excellent are Munch, Dutoit, Barenboim, Martinon, Ansermet and de Waart’s later recording with Guillou/San Francisco. I may be forgetting some.


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## KenOC

My favorite Organ Symphony is the one in the $5.99 *Saint-Saens mega-download*, which is loaded with really excellent S-S performances. Originally issued on BIS (like most of the recordings in the download), the symphony has Hans Fagius at the organ and James DePriest (RIP) conducting the Stockholm Phil. Great conducting, great engineering, clear and transparent sound, and Fagius is renowned as an organist in that part of the world.

The symphony aside, this may be all the S-S you need. One of the best in the "99 Essential" series.


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## Heck148

Itullian said:


> I don't have his work.
> What recordings would you recommend?
> Thanks


I love the Barenboim/Chicago one, complete with overdubbed organ...the sound is unnatural to a degree, but it provides a remarkable "otherworldly" quality....wonderful clarity, with the organ sounding simultaneously from afar, but also right up front...

Ormandy/Phila is good, Munch/BSO OK...not too impressed with Paray/Detroit, my first real exposure to the work..there is some pretty weak sounding wind/brass work....


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## Oldhoosierdude

KenOC said:


> My favorite Organ Symphony is the one in the $5.99 *Saint-Saens mega-download*, which is loaded with really excellent S-S performances. Originally issued on BIS (like most of the recordings in the download), the symphony has Hans Fagius at the organ and James DePriest (RIP) conducting the Stockholm Phil. Great conducting, great engineering, clear and transparent sound, and Fagius is renowned as an organist in that part of the world.
> 
> The symphony aside, this may be all the S-S you need. One of the best in the "99 Essential" series.


I have that one, although the box was $. 99 when I purchased it. I also have The Big French Music Box with the symphony by "Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, Sergiu Comissiona, Frederick & Minger" ( two on the organ?). I quite like this symphony and believe these recordings cover it for me.


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## Merl

As others have mentioned, Munch is often many people's choice but there are some other really good options - Barenboim, Ozawa,. Myung-Whun Chung, Levine, Martinon and the account I was playing a few days ago from Soustrot and his Malmo forces, on Naxos. That's a really well-recorded disc.


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## Kiki

I like this, Pappano's live recording his the Santa Cecilia orchestra. Warm and operatic.

Also like the Karajan, which seems to be dismissed by most professional reviewers?


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## Merl

Kiki said:


> I like this, Pappano's live recording his the Santa Cecilia orchestra. Warm and operatic.
> 
> Also like the Karajan, which seems to be dismissed by most professional reviewers?


Strangely enough I've never heard Karajan's SS3 but most of the negative press wasn't about Karajan's handling of the symphony (which some like a lot and some think a bit 'germanic' ) . The biggest complaint is usually labelled at the organ sound which many say is too loud and distorted. I can't comment, personally, as I've never heard it. The Pappano is a new one for me. BTW, I missed Ormandy's account off my list as I don't like the muddy sound at all. Shame, as its otherwise a very good performance.


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## starthrower

Dutoit Montreal / Peter Hurford-organ on London
Bareboim Chicago on DG
Ormandy Philadelphia / Michael Murray on Telarc
Eschenbach Philly / Oliver Latry on Ondine includes the Saint Saens plus Poulenc's excellent concerto for organ, strings and timpani


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## Kiki

Merl said:


> Strangely enough I've never heard Karajan's SS3 but most of the negative press wasn't about Karajan's handling of the symphony (which some like a lot and some think a bit 'germanic' ) . The biggest complaint is usually labelled at the organ sound which many say is too loud and distorted. I can't comment, personally, as I've never heard it. The Pappano is a new one for me. BTW, I missed Ormandy's account off my list as I don't like the muddy sound at all. Shame, as its otherwise a very good performance.


Certainly Karajan can be very loud, not only the organ, but also the whole orchestra; but the playing in quieter passages, esp. in the strings, are also quite amazing. Certainly worth a listen.


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## realdealblues

Mostly same as others...

Munch/Boston/Zamkochian
Paray/Detroit/Dupre
Ormandy/Philadelphia/Briggs
Waart/San Francisco/Guillou
Barenboim/Orchestre de Paris/Litaize
Mata/Dallas/Guillou


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## NLAdriaan

Dutoit and Hurford on the early digital Decca/London recording deliver a great sound and very elastic performance. This was amongst my very first CD's back in the day and it proved to be a great demonstration of CD capabilities, still to this day. The full, direct organ sound without any distortion remains a gem. I don't mind that the organ sound was dubbed and recorded elsewhere. Digital recordings are always a puzzle of building blocks, even if there is only one musician playing.


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## starthrower

I had never heard of the Paray so I ordered a used CD.


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## Strange Magic

I also recommend the Munch/Boston/Zamkochian CD. You also get the Poulenc Concerto for Organ, Strings, and Timpani, and Franck's _Le Chasseur Maudit_. Beautifully recorded.


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## starthrower

Strange Magic said:


> I also recommend the Munch/Boston/Zamkochian CD. You also get the Poulenc Concerto for Organ, Strings, and Timpani, .


I actually prefer the Poulenc to Saint Saens.


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## JB Henson

Paray/Dupre on Mercury. Edges out Munch for being much cleaner sounding.


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## starthrower

JB Henson said:


> Paray/Dupre on Mercury. Edges out Munch for being much cleaner sounding.
> 
> View attachment 125020


I got my CD a couple weeks ago. Awesome recording!


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## Becca

I have the Munch/Zamkochian and Dutoit/Hurford but my two [current] favourites are the aforementioned:

Georges Prêtre / Maurice Duruflé / St. Étienne du Mont
Francois-Xavier Roth / Daniel Roth / St. Sulpice

The latter is particularly interesting as it is a live recording and the orchestra is Les Siecles which uses instruments of the period which makes for hearing things slightly differently than modern orchestra. I have read some reviews claiming that the 'monster' organ totally overwhelms the orchestra but at least with my headphone listening, it doesn't seem that way. Incidentally, the organist is the conductor's father. Here is an interesting video taken from the organ loft during the performance...


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## Rogerx

No. 1: Paray/Detroit/Dupre
No.2 :de Waart/San Francisco/Guillou
No.3 :Eschenbach Philly / Oliver Latry 
Ormandy Philadelphia / Michael Murray for the sensational over the top recording.


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## DavidA

Both pretty good. The Ormandy is very special. The Fremaux in very good sound.

This is pretty amazing too


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## DavidA

JB Henson said:


> Paray/Dupre on Mercury. Edges out Munch for being much cleaner sounding.
> 
> View attachment 125020


Brings back memories of my friend and I sitting and listening to this on LP when we were at school. As we are both now in our early 70s that gives you some idea of the date of the recording. But these old Mercury recordings were amazing.


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## flamencosketches

JB Henson said:


> Paray/Dupre on Mercury. Edges out Munch for being much cleaner sounding.
> 
> View attachment 125020


I couldn't possibly imagine this one being topped, it's so good!!! But I do have another in my library, Martinon/Orchestre National de l'ORTF, that I have yet to listen to, but that I have high hopes for.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I've heard a good handful of recordings: Dutoit, Barenboim, Paray, Munch and a few others. I haven't come across a disappointing one yet- it's really quite a tough work to mess up. Generally Paray is a good bet for a lighter, more "French" approach; but if you like your organ huge and jaw-rattling (which, it's worthwhile to note, is NOT marked that way in the score- the big entrance in the finale is marked _forte_, while most seem to play it _fortississimo_), then Dutoit and Barenboim are good bets. One rather obscure one that I really liked was Christopher Robinson with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra- it's another more understated interpretation but quite well-played.


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## bharbeke

I loved the Litaize/Barenboim/Chicago recording.


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## KenOC

My go-to organ symphony (I may have already mentioned this!) is this BIS-derived recording from Hans Fagius, organ, Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra with the late great James DePreist conducting. Performance and recording are great, clean and strong.

Best of all, it's in a big $5.99 collection with (probably) all the Saint-Saens you'll ever need.


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