# RIP James Levine



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/17/obituaries/james-levine-dead.html


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I wonder what his legacy will be. He made some terrific recordings and gave many, many memorable concerts at the Met, in Boston, Chicago and everywhere else he conducted. Then the sordid events of his private life ruined it all. It's a shame - he could have been another Great American Conductor, but now he'll probably be swept aside. I won't be getting rid of my Levine CDs; there's so many excellent ones: Mahler, Brahms, Wagner, Tchaikovsky...RIP, maestro.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> I wonder what his legacy will be. He made some terrific recordings and gave many, many memorable concerts at the Met, in Boston, Chicago and everywhere else he conducted.


I suspect that we'll soon see appreciations of his accomplishments as a musician, which have been pretty much overshadowed during the past few years by his sordid nonmusical activities.

It's odd that he died more than a week ago, and it's just hitting the news today.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I remember seeing him in concert around 1990 in Evanston near Chicago. He played piano in a Dawn Upshaw recital. A few hours earlier I had seen him in a local park. RIP.


----------



## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> I wonder what his legacy will be. He made some terrific recordings and gave many, many memorable concerts at the Met, in Boston, Chicago and everywhere else he conducted. Then the sordid events of his private life ruined it all. It's a shame - he could have been another Great American Conductor, but now he'll probably be swept aside. I won't be getting rid of my Levine CDs; there's so many excellent ones: Mahler, Brahms, Wagner, Tchaikovsky...RIP, maestro.


Cancel culture.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Gargamel said:


> Cancel culture.


Grim Reaper cancels everyone


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Gargamel said:


> Cancel culture.


Not really. "Cancel culture" is about ruining people's lives because of something they may have said, not because of things that they actually did.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Yes, a great career, and a sadly tainted legacy. But with a conductor or musician--as opposed to, say, an actor--I don't find it that difficult to separate the person from their work, so I too have held on to my Levine recordings.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

This is so sad. 

I never got to any of his concerts (don't know if he ever came to the UK) but I would not part with the superb recordings I have - 2VS, Cage, Carter, Babbitt, Schuller, Brahms, Wagner, Mahler et al. 

R.I.P. Maestro, and thank you for the music .......


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

One of my favorite conductors.
His Brahms, Schumann are among my favorites.
He's in God's hands now.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

The Met speaks, after 2 weeks? Well, 1 week .....


----------



## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

His Brahms is sublime. He recorded the best performances of those symphonies


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Great musician, fine conductor...many great recordings, and many memorable live performances....I esp appreciate his revitalizing the BSO after the long, rather dreary, inconsistent Ozawa tenure...specifically- we heard a concert including Le Sacre, Schoenberg 5 Pieces for Orch, Ligeti "Atmospheres"....orchestra sounded better than they had in years..real energy, excitement...wonderful program...of course, then there was his "admission" process for Blossom Festival back in c1969-70.....


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

amfortas said:


> Yes, a great career, and a sadly tainted legacy. But with a conductor or musician--as opposed to, say, an actor--I don't find it that difficult to separate the person from their work, so I too have held on to my Levine recordings.


Indeed. I know nothing much about the details of the allegations, but I did look at the New York Times obituary linked to at the top of this thread. It stated that Levine and the Met settled his action out of court with a payment to him of $3.5m. So are the allegations proven, highly credible, doubtful, or what? What is an outsider with no detailed knowledge of the allegations or of the details of the settlement reached to make of this sort of stuff? Unless there has been a proper court process we outsiders are just left not really knowing. I find all this "settling" stuff hugely unsatisfactory. It is interesting that the Met remarks linked to above make no reference to them settling with him. What do we read into that, if anything?

A legacy is tainted, as you say, but what can an outsider make of any of it. I haven't the time to look into the Levine story, the Dutoit story, and the Pletnev story (and that's just a few from classical music), so I just end up feeling (as you also say) that it is all awfully sad, as well as feeling the truth that mud almost always sticks whatever the reality. What a world.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Eclectic Al said:


> Indeed. I know nothing much about the details of the allegations, but I did look at the New York Times obituary linked to at the top of this thread. It stated that Levine and the Met settled his action out of court with a payment to him of $3.5m. So are the allegations proven, highly credible, doubtful, or what? What is an outsider with no detailed knowledge of the allegations or of the details of the settlement reached to make of this sort of stuff? Unless there has been a proper court process we outsiders are just left not really knowing. I find all this "settling" stuff hugely unsatisfactory. It is interesting that the Met remarks linked to above make no reference to them settling with him. What do we read into that, if anything?
> 
> A legacy is tainted, as you say, but what can an outsider make of any of it. I haven't the time to look into the Levine story, the Dutoit story, and the Pletnev story (and that's just a few from classical music), so I just end up feeling (as you also say) that it is all awfully sad, as well as feeling the truth that mud almost always sticks whatever the reality. What a world.


Well said. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

Caravaggio and Gesualdo were horrible persons. Sartre, Althusser, Saint-Saens... Yet few people associate them with their crimes.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Eclectic Al said:


> Indeed. I know nothing much about the details of the allegations, but I did look at the New York Times obituary linked to at the top of this thread. It stated that Levine and the Met settled his action out of court with a payment to him of $3.5m. So are the allegations proven, highly credible, doubtful, or what? What is an outsider with no detailed knowledge of the allegations or of the details of the settlement reached to make of this sort of stuff? Unless there has been a proper court process we outsiders are just left not really knowing. I find all this "settling" stuff hugely unsatisfactory. It is interesting that the Met remarks linked to above make no reference to them settling with him. What do we read into that, if anything?
> 
> A legacy is tainted, as you say, but what can an outsider make of any of it. I haven't the time to look into the Levine story, the Dutoit story, and the Pletnev story (and that's just a few from classical music), so I just end up feeling (as you also say) that it is all awfully sad, as well as feeling the truth that mud almost always sticks whatever the reality. What a world.


When there are numerous allegations, stretching back over many years, I find it pretty persuasive. Cases typically get settled because it would be more costly--in legal fees and adverse publicity--to continue them.

As with artists of the past, I suspect both his life and his work will be remembered.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Gargamel said:


> Caravaggio and Gesualdo were horrible persons. Sartre, Althusser, Saint-Saens... Yet few people associate them with their crimes.


I think Gesualdo falls into a different category. Note the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia entry:

"Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa (c. 8 March 1566 - 8 September 1613) was Prince of Venosa and Count of Conza. As a composer he is known for writing intensely expressive madrigals and pieces of sacred music that use a chromatic language not heard again until the late 19th century. The best known fact of his life is his gruesome killing of his first wife and her aristocratic lover upon finding them _in flagrante delicto_. The fascination for his extraordinary music and for his shocking acts have gone hand in hand."


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I have fond memories of watching the Levine/The Met Mozart Die Zauberflote on VHS tape and then, later, the DVD. AFAIK, the music never appeared on CD. Only days ago, I separated the music off the DVD for use on a playlist.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Gargamel said:


> Caravaggio and Gesualdo were horrible persons. Sartre, Althusser, Saint-Saens... Yet few people associate them with their crimes.


Gesualdo's case has been treated in an anachronistic manner and milked for its sensational aspect based on had it happened today.

However, for his time, what he did was entirely in keeping with the social mores of his time. It was investigated and found that no crime had been committed. In fact, had he not responded in this manner to his wife's public adultery he would have lost standing in his community, of which he was a leader.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

SanAntone said:


> Gesualdo's case has been treated in an anachronistic manner and milked for its sensational aspect based on had it happened today.
> 
> However, for his time, what he did was entirely in keeping with the social mores of his time. It was investigated and found that no crime had been committed. In fact, had he not responded in this manner to his wife's public adultery he would have lost standing in his community, of which he was a leader.


You said "few people associate them with their crimes"--present tense. And it seems you agree with me about how today's audience views Gesualdo. If you were actually talking about how people in his own day reacted, that's a different matter.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Picasso and Gauguin did horrible things to people, too. It doesn't change whether their art is worth experiencing. 

We can admire the art while despising the choices of the man.

The list of things we can appreciate would become very slender indeed if we had to grade human accomplishments on the overall moral fiber of the human involved.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Picasso and Gauguin did horrible things to people, too. It doesn't change whether their art is worth experiencing.
> 
> We can admire the art while despising the choices of the man.


I see this as an entirely personal decision, one I would never try to dictate to someone else. And as I suggested above, for me at least it may depend on the kind of work--on how easy it is to distinguish the artist from the person. So a painter or musician may be less problematic than an actor, or the writer of a clearly autobiographical novel.


----------



## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Very true, Matthew. I would not have been best buds with Edison, but I am more than happy to benefit from his inventions.

Here are some big musical moments from Levine that I think should be appreciated and remembered:

His conducting and appearance in Fantasia/2000
Brahms Symphony No. 2 with the Vienna Philharmonic
Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (jazz band version orchestrated by Ferde Grofe)
Mozart Symphony No. 41 with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Mozart Violin Concerto No. 2 with Perlman and the Vienna Philharmonic


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

There are lots of people in art, music, and literature who did much to add beauty to the world who were not nice people otherwise. We have our groomers and gropers, the predators; the ones who were cold or abusive to family members; those who held to obscene prejudices and/or held membership in organizations that promoted such; and others who were just plain nasty people. I need not mention names because we all know who they are. But death and time seems to forgive all things eventually; well, except in the case of that one guy whose name I also don't have to bring up because we all know who that person is as well.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Coach G said:


> But death and time seems to forgive all things eventually; well, except in the case of that one guy whose name I also don't have to bring up because we all know who that person is as well.


Never shall you ask, nor trouble yourself to know, from whence he journeyed, what his name is, or what his origin.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I'm in general agreement with the posters here who were saddened and disgusted by the Levine scandal allegations, but who can still appreciate his music making. The man v. the artist -- two different beings, often enough. One may fail while the other excels. Part of the human condition.

I treasure one Levine recording, which dates from July 1984. I believe it is still the best ever recording of Tchaikovsky's monumental Sixth Symphony.















I shall continue to return to it when I want to hear this symphony the way I believe Tchaikovsky wanted it to be heard. The Tchaikovsky Sixth is one of the few symphonies for which I have a definite "first choice" recording, and it is the Levine/Chicago.

Perhaps this music speaks for James Levine's life as well.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

amfortas said:


> *You said "few people associate them with their crimes"--present tense.* And it seems you agree with me about how today's audience views Gesualdo. If you were actually talking about how people in his own day reacted, that's a different matter.


I think have mixed me up with someone else, since I did not say what you think I said.


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

SanAntone said:


> I think have mixed me up with someone else, since I did not say what you think I said.


You are absolutely right; my apologies. I plead encroaching senility.

Now get off my lawn!


----------



## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Eclectic Al said:


> Indeed. I know nothing much about the details of the allegations, but I did look at the New York Times obituary linked to at the top of this thread. It stated that Levine and the Met settled his action out of court with a payment to him of $3.5m. So are the allegations proven, highly credible, doubtful, or what? What is an outsider with no detailed knowledge of the allegations or of the details of the settlement reached to make of this sort of stuff? Unless there has been a proper court process we outsiders are just left not really knowing. I find all this "settling" stuff hugely unsatisfactory. It is interesting that the Met remarks linked to above make no reference to them settling with him. What do we read into that, if anything?
> 
> A legacy is tainted, as you say, but what can an outsider make of any of it. I haven't the time to look into the Levine story, the Dutoit story, and the Pletnev story (and that's just a few from classical music), so I just end up feeling (as you also say) that it is all awfully sad, as well as feeling the truth that mud almost always sticks whatever the reality. What a world.


One thing I've learned as a lawyer, including by being involved in some high-profile cases covered in the news media, is that the only way to get close to the truth in situations like this is in court, not in a "trial" in the news or entertainment media. We know Levine was guilty of causing a PR scandal for his employer, the Met, and therefore was forced to resign. Whether he deserved $3.5 million, $7 million, or nothing, we don't know. I agree with several posters above that his work as a musician was outstanding.


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

I think James Levine's memory is immortalised in the history of music as he had a fantastic career and made numerous recordings which we'll probably keep listening to. (It's funny i was reading his biography yesterday.)


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> I'm in general agreement with the posters here who were saddened and disgusted by the Levine scandal allegations, but who can still appreciate his music making. The man v. the artist -- two different beings, often enough. One may fail while the other excels. Part of the human condition.
> 
> I treasure one Levine recording, which dates from July 1984. I believe it is still the best ever recording of Tchaikovsky's monumental Sixth Symphony.
> 
> ...


That recording of the sixth is terrific and was tantalizing - what would have complete cycle been like? But maybe he just didn't have it in his blood. If would be really great if Sony would box all his RCA recordings into one large box, but given the nature of his alleged crimes, that probably won't ever happen.


----------



## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

Despite the sexual accusations that ruined his image, in the last years of his life, I prefer to remember him for some great recordings. Here is one of them.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I enjoy The Met's production of operas with traditional staging and conducted by Levine. 

RIP.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I just picked up the Compact Ring CD a few weeks ago. The orchestra sounds terrific. I only have a couple other Levine recordings. He'll be remembered as a great conductor as will Domingo as a great tenor.


----------



## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> This is so sad.
> 
> I never got to any of his concerts (don't know if he ever came to the UK) but I would not part with the superb recordings I have - 2VS, Cage, Carter, Babbitt, Schuller, Brahms, Wagner, Mahler et al.
> 
> R.I.P. Maestro, and thank you for the music .......


Henry: I also have that DG recording of Levine conducting modern American composers. It's the one with the American flag on the cover.

I believe the first time I heard Messiaen was when I heard a live radio broadcast of Levine conducting Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra at the Ravinia Festival in the early 90's. Half the crowd cheered, the rest booed quite loudly. It's a difficult piece, even by Messiaen's standards. I tape recorded it on my boom box! I think it's better than the cd recording Haitink recorded with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. I was supposed to see him and the Met Orchestra perform Das Lied von der Erde in the mid-90's but the concert was canceled a month or two before the scheduled date.

Musically, his legacy and tenure with the Met is up there with Mengelberg/Concertgebouw, Szell/Cleveland, Ormandy/Philadelphia and Karajan/Berlin. He was also a very good lieder accompanist on piano; my first lieder recording was a Salzburg recital disc in which he accompanied Kathleen Battle.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

> I also have that DG recording of Levine conducting modern American composers. It's the one with the American flag on the cover.


That Carter performance is a corker!


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

SearsPoncho said:


> Henry: I also have that DG recording of Levine conducting modern American composers. It's the one with the American flag on the cover.
> 
> I believe the first time I heard Messiaen was when I heard a live radio broadcast of Levine conducting Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra at the Ravinia Festival in the early 90's. Half the crowd cheered, the rest booed quite loudly. It's a difficult piece, even by Messiaen's standards. I tape recorded it on my boom box! I think it's better than the cd recording Haitink recorded with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. I was supposed to see him and the Met Orchestra perform Das Lied von der Erde in the mid-90's but the concert was canceled a month or two before the scheduled date.
> 
> Musically, his legacy and tenure with the Met is up there with Mengelberg/Concertgebouw, Szell/Cleveland, Ormandy/Philadelphia and Karajan/Berlin. He was also a very good lieder accompanist on piano; my first lieder recording was a Salzburg recital disc in which he accompanied Kathleen Battle.


Yes - the CD with the American flag!

I love the Messiaen anecdote - I think it's often a good sign to get boos!

His legacy with the Met is secure, people have to make the right noises now, then in the future it will be the music that will be remembered (not that I'm condoning any wrongdoing that he may have, or not, allegedly perpetrated)


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

starthrower said:


> That Carter performance is a corker!


Agreed. I listened to it this afternoon on learning of Levine's passing and it is an even better performance than I remember from last time I spun it!


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'll remember the music first and foremost. His brilliant Brahms, magnificent Mahler and super Schumann. His private life was a sad taint on a great career. One of the few heavyweights who never recorded a complete Beethoven cycle, sadly.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> I wonder what his legacy will be. He made some terrific recordings and gave many, many memorable concerts at the Met, in Boston, Chicago and everywhere else he conducted. Then the sordid events of his private life ruined it all. It's a shame - he could have been another Great American Conductor, but now he'll probably be swept aside. I won't be getting rid of my Levine CDs; there's so many excellent ones: Mahler, Brahms, Wagner, Tchaikovsky...RIP, maestro.


When the anti-sex victimhood culture ends Levine will be remembered for his musical accomplishments, not his sex life.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I listened to, and will listen in the next few days, some of Levine's greatest recordings: 
With Chicago:
Mahler Sym #3
Prokofiev Sym #5
Holst- Planets
Stravinsky- Petrushka 
Bach - From Ravinia 
Carter/Schuller - aforementioned

Levine did a great all-Schoenberg program with BSO - Pelleas/Melisande, 5 Orchestra Pieces, Variations for Orchestra....the BSO really got into the Variations, terrific performance...I think ths BSO welcomed the challenge of a less familiar work by a major composer.


----------



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

No one has mentioned this one yet, but for me, I have yet to find a Dvorak 7th that beats this one.


----------



## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

God wanted him back in the Heavens to conduct the Cosmos Symphony Orchestra 

(he's looking up at the Heavens) ...


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

starthrower said:


> Leave it to TCers to turn an obit thread in to the National Inquirer. Where are the mods to jump in with their red text to admonish the mob to keep it focused on the music?


Next time, please press the report button. Do you think we follow all threads live?

*I have removed a number of posts. An obituary thread is not the right place to discuss the accusations against a person at length. There are separate threads for that.
*


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The thread is now open for continued discussion.


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

His interpretation of the Firebird Suite was the first I've heard and remains my favourite.


----------

