# Next Brahms cycle - Jochum, Mackerras, Celibidache, Walter, Dohnanyi, Furtwangler



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

So,looking at a fourth Brahms cycle as his music grows ever more indispensible to me.
Hugely enjoying both Levine/CSO and Wand/NDRSO: Karajan/BPO (80s) starting to excite me a little less.
Looking for something excellent and/or different to what I know, and have kind of narrowed it to these six sets. Go on, choose for me.



















Dohnanyi: rave reviews.
Celibidache: not everyone's cup of tea, but his Bruckner is mine. And I really like what I've heard of the Brahms 4 from this set.
Furtwangler: bound to open up new sounds for me, no?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Continued...













Jochum: rave reviews (or the EMI/LPO set?)
Mackerras: a more HIP Brahms would be refreshing for me, and I love his Schubert.
Walter: his Brahms - warm, lyrical, exciting - sounds like something I would enjoy (or his Columbia set?)
Thanks in advance!


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Oops don't think this one got through...
View attachment 76454


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Harnoncourt and the BPO?


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Wand's NDR cycle and Levine's Chicago cycle are about as good as it gets, add Klemperer's Philharmonia cycle, Abbado's Berlin cycle, Jochum's London cycle on EMI, Sanderling's Dresden cycle and Dohnanyi's Cleveland cycle and you have to me the best cycles available on disc.

For something really different you could try Bernstein's DG cycle. Mackerras if you want an HIP style. Walter is very good, but I would get his stereo cycle. Furtwangler is...well Furtwangler, Celibidache is not my cup of tea in Brahms but if that's what you like, go for it. You don't have either of them listed but I personally would avoid Harnoncourt and Chailly's Brahms cycles as they don't live up to the hype. I have over 30 cycles but if I had to pick a Top 3 it would be Klemperer/Philharmonia, Levine/CSO and Wand/NDR. Top 5, add Abbado/Berlin and Jochum/London.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks both! Realdealblues, it's partly in response to your previous Brahms posts that I've built up my collection post-Karajan (I also have 2/3 from Sanderling which I really enjoy, and might get the other 2).
Klemperer looks a must.
Do you also recommend Kempe with Munich? Currently in a bargain box with a Klemperer Beethoven cycle...


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks both! Realdealblues, it's partly in response to your previous Brahms posts that I've built up my collection post-Karajan (I also have 2/3 from Sanderling which I really enjoy, and might get the other 2).
> Klemperer looks a must.
> Do you also recommend Kempe with Munich? Currently in a bargain box with a Klemperer Beethoven cycle...
> View attachment 76457


Yeah, I remember us discussing Brahms at one point. Glad I could help in recommendations and I'm truly glad you are enjoy the Levine and Wand sets. They really are two of the best in my opinion. Klemperer is the other must in my book. You can get the Brahms box set from Klemperer really cheap now. 
View attachment 76459

With it you also get the best German Requiem on available on disc and one of the finest Alto Rhapsodies with Christa Ludwig. Klemperer just can't be beat when it comes to Brahms. The Symphonies are from the late 50's so there's a little age to them but they still sound good. The German Requiem is from 1961 and sounds great.

I still like the Kempe set with Munich, but admit I have a soft spot for Kempe. I know others don't rate his Brahms (or Beethoven for that matter) very highly. It's very sensible and straightforward. He's wasn't as dynamic or dramatic and exciting in the classic German symphonic standards like Klemperer or Wand were. Kempe was much more exciting in Richard Strauss and Wagner and works with lots of orchestral color instead of symphonic development. There's nothing wrong with his interpretations per say, they just aren't as dynamic and as exciting as some others. And obviously the Munich orchestra isn't Vienna or Berlin, but they play well. It's good straight ahead Brahms so I don't believe it's a bad cycle and I personally enjoy it but looking at it from a more objective standpoint you can do better with the others I've mentioned.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I would do Klemperer, Furtwangler, Sanderling, and Andrew Manze for an (a)historically informed cycle, Manze.
For sonic greatness with good rousing peromances, I do Janowski


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't forget the in my opinion underrated Solti/Chicago symphony set on Decca . Solti was often accused of being harsh and driven , not something I agree with, but these performances are quite warm ,mellow and supple, without any loss of his characteristic vigor and propulsion .


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

Triplets said:


> I would do Klemperer, Furtwangler, Sanderling, and Andrew Manze for an (a)historically informed cycle, Manze.
> For sonic greatness with good rousing peromances, I do Janowski


Agree with the above. For a contemporary, very clean version, Chailly. Not all perfect, but very organic.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks everyone! Great suggestions. I do like the look of Manze, and there are some positive and articulate reviews. Even had a quick listen to start of all 4 of his on YouTube. 
Very fresh-sounding. Wow, does he start #3 fast! But I could def grow to love it...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Just been listening to Toscanini/NBC doing #1.






Intense, hard-driven stuff! Guess I should hear both Furtwangler and Toscanini in Brahms to get a pair of differing, but classic perspectives.


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## billeames (Jan 17, 2014)

I have about 25 versions including the ones you mentioned. The best in bearable sound are Kempe, Jochum BPO DG, and Beinum CGO, Walter NYPO in slightly lesser sound as you listed. Klemperer is high on the list too. 

Furtwangler on an absolute basis regardless of sound could be the best of all. His Brahms 1 NDR is killer. 

I really thrill to all the above but Furtwangler takes some forgiveness of sound, Walter less so. There are many arguably other ones that are very good too. Its hard to find a really great Brahms set. Many famous conductors cant. (Abbado, Bernstein DG except the 4th, Giulini VPO unless you love super slow, etc, Muti)

Bill


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks Bill, and others! I must try and hear that Furtwangler First.
Been looking for a really dramatic, menacing opening to the First, with thunderous timpani like the drums at the gates of Hell, or something. This might be the one for me:


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

billeames said:


> Furtwangler on an absolute basis regardless of sound could be the best of all. His Brahms 1 NDR is killer.


Wow, yes. Listening now. Very special. Thanks!


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

jim prideaux said:


> Harnoncourt and the BPO?


This is on my wish list. I've had Mackerras conducting the Scottish Chamber Orchestra for years, my mother bought it for me. It's a lean sound, very clean. I really like it. But I was thinking of a different set for myself too. On amazon the Harnoncourt set is not expensive. My problem is that I have no more shelf space to keep any new CDs.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

senza sordino said:


> This is on my wish list. I've had Mackerras conducting the Scottish Chamber Orchestra for years, my mother bought it for me. It's a lean sound, very clean. I really like it. But I was thinking of a different set for myself too. On amazon the Harnoncourt set is not expensive. My problem is that I have no more shelf space to keep any new CDs.


I have also considered getting hold of the Mackerras recordings primarily because I imagine the sound to be just as you have described-have also looked repeatedly at the Berglund COE recordings!


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