# Your opera journey



## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

_Forgive me if such a thread has been posted before--if so, and you've already shared in it, please do link!_

I would be quite curious to learn of others' journey/experiences/progression with regard to opera.

I think it is fair to say that opera, in contrast to e.g. the symphony, is not something that everyone just instantly likes--at least in our day and age--even among classical aficionados. Certainly such was the case with me for much of my life, and even now I have friends who poke fun at me for enjoying it. As such, I think it would be beneficial to talk about how you came to love it!

Here are some questions that might help in guiding discussion (though of course feel free to add to or ignore them as needed!):

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?

How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?

What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?

Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?

Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

And, if you've liked opera for some years:

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

I'm looking forward to hearing your responses!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

nefigah said:


> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all?


I became an opera fan in the mid-80's. Before that I didn't exactly hate it, I just wasn't interested.



> Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


No. I got into opera at the almost exact same time as I started to get into classical music as a whole.



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


First thing I owed was the semi-operatic recording of _West Side Story_ with Kiri Te Kanawa and Jose Carreras. Then a few other very accessible ones - _Carmen_ and _Porgy & Bess_. After that _Le Nozze di Figaro_. Then I was ready for a bit of 'far out' stuff like _Salome_ and _Elektra_. But all this happened within the space of just four or five months. I was sold on opera very quickly and I loved practically all the important works I heard, even though they were stylistically very different from one another.



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


Not really. I still love what I loved all those years ago, I just love more because I've heard more.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


I know people who like it, though none love it as much as I do. But (surprisingly maybe) I also know very few people in my circle of 'friends' who actually hate it.



> Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?


Yes - always keep in mind that every bird builds a nest, but not everyone can lay an egg. Other than that, I hope that you will enjoy the music as much as I've done for all these years.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


I've been into classical since I was a kid. both my parents were professional musicians, it's all we listened to. When I was four, I wanted to go see Dido and Aeneas but wasn't allowed to for some weird reason. I went as far as to 
write a letter to the opera director complaining about this  He gave me tickets for some musical which blew, and from that point on I was set on getting into an opera preformance



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


Not at all, because I wanted to see operas anyways



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


As said, Dido and Aeneas. I guess this is because when I was little, my Grandfather didn't know any fairy tales, but isntead kept either reciting greek and roman history (I dug it), or myths. that's why an opera on the subject had my attention.

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


When I was fifteen, I asked my mom if she'd buy us season tickets to the opera, and we still go now.



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


After a couple of full season I've seen operas from the beginning of it (saw Incoronazione di Poppea) to the end (Batistini or something, custom made. Man that was boring). I've decided I'll avoid any operas by the second Viennese school, as well as most contemporary compositions.


> And, if you've liked opera for some years:
> 
> Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?


It's ok to take a five minute nap in the middle of the piece =D


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

nefigah said:


> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


Yes, to both. I discovered classical music (Elgar, Sibelius, RVW mostly) at the same time as I discovered the Beatles, but I could only cope with orchestral music. I hated choral music and opera - seriously couldn't bear to listen to it.



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


Initially, not at all. Later, yes.



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


Bought a record of 'highlights' from _Gotterdammerung_ (Rita Hunter as Brunnhilde), just as an experiment, on the basis that since I loved what I might call 'Northern Romantics', surely I ought to get something from Wagner. First impression: 'Ugh!' Neither my wife nor I liked it. But the weird thing is this: we both kept playing it. We found that our normal favourites didn't seem quite as enticing as usual - and we kept playing this record. So after a few weeks we went and bought a record of highlights from _Rhinegold_. And then we were on the slippery slope.

Beore long we were saving and scraping every penny to try to afford the whole _Ring_ - and eventually managed to buy the Bohm Bayreuth version. Wagner swamped everything. We played our _Ring_ records every evening. We listened to a complete _Ring_ cycle on the radio. We read books. We went to see a live performance of _Gotterdammerung_, with Rita Hunter, Reggie Goodall and the ENO, and it was the most overwhelming experience of the kind that I'd ever had - nothing since has quite matched it. It was a hot summer night, we were horribly uncomfortable, but it hardly mattered. It wasn't just us - the audience exploded at the end of this phenomenal performance; we all rose to our feet, and simply wouldn't let them go home.

Bought a set of _Tristan_; went to see a performance, found it dull. You win some, you lose some.



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


For ages - many years - it was Wagner or nothing as far as opera was concerned. Couldn't hear any tunes in Verdi; couldn't get on with Mozart at all; but then I bought a record of highlights from _Rosenkavalier_ and the roof blew off. No 'getting to know it': it hit me on first listening. Puccini came next. Then no more progress, for years. And years.

Then I heard Elgar's _The Spirit of England_. I couldn't bear choral music, remember; so even though I'd always loved Elgar, I still couldn't tolerate his choral stuff. But _The Spirit of England_ proved to be one of those crucial turning points, and down came the barriers. _Gerontius_, _Kingdom_,_ Apostles_, _Caractacus_ - suddenly all these things were accessible, and I spent a long time exploring just Elgar's vocal music.

But it signalled a change - maybe physiological, or maybe it was just that I was emotionally and intellectually and spiritually ready for it; but suddenly all sorts of things were up for grabs. I became deeply involved in French C19th opera - Massenet, Gounod, Thomas etc. Started going to operas again. And now, only last year, came the big breakthrough into French baroque, and more recently Handel. The world of opera has never seemed more limitless than it seems right now.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


Yes, but she's not as keen as I am.



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


At the moment I can't see an end to my exploration of baroque opera, simply because there's so much of it, and it's proving intensely rewarding.



> Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?


Never rule anything out. If someone had told me, twenty years ago, that in the future I'd be spending all my time listening to operas and vocal music by Handel, Lully, Rameau, and Charpentier, I would have thought they were being entirely ridiculous.


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## Praine (Dec 20, 2008)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Yeah, definitely. I found operatic vocals very annoying at one time. But this was also at a time that I wasn't huge on classical music in general.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_

Didn't have too much of an effect on me. I only saw live opera only 1 or 2 times in my life.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

Carl Maria von Weber's Der Freischütz introduced me to the genre and it may just be my favorite. Either that or Gluck's Alceste.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

From completely shunning it to loving it, yeah I would say that my tastes have suprisingly changed. 

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

Nope.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Really look forward to hearing Umberto Giordano, but I'm having one heck of a time finding any of his works available. I'm also hoping to listen to Ruggero Leoncavallo's works in the near future and maybe some Catalini as well.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply so far. So interesting that we already have so many different journeys! From childhood love to conversion after many years, from introduction via West Side Story to Weber and Wagner. 

Anyway, I'm tickled! Don't mind me


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_
Yes, most of my life. I have gradually turned a corner on that style of singing, but it took decades. You folks will think me gauche, but the only way I learned to tolerate operatic singing, or almost any classical style of singing (other than very early music with little or no warbling vibrato) was to imagine it as some kind of theremin or synthesizer. Then I could tolerate it. It is still not exactly the most pleasant of sounds.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_
No. I have only seen DVD's of operas. I have seen oratorios and other vocal works live however.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_
I have said in the past it was the complete Ring cycle that I sat down and watched from start to finish, but that was the first opera I saw on DVD. I suppose I heard a Handel opera before that and followed the libretto as it was playing. But now I can't remember which one. Probably _Julius Caesar._

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_
I'm still too new to it.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_
No. In fact my former spouse did not even want to go with me to see a friend perform vocally in _The Planets_, fearing that it was opera music. I did say former.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_
I know nothing about the big names in Italian opera. I would like to experience an epic Verdi opera and maybe a Puccini.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

I grew up singing in the boy's choir of a high Episcopal church, and was therefore exposed to classical voice from a very young age -- singing Mozart, Bach, Haydn, etc. What a joy.

Growing up in Kansas City, I didn't see much opera, but each Saturday I tried to tune into the Met broadcasts. Being a regular boy I had plenty of distractions on Saturday, like riding my bicycle and later, my motorbike. I also squandered much of you youth in a billiard hall, learning to play an excellent game of pool -- I've played in many tournaments and I've also made lots of money batting on my skill. But I often stayed home and lietened to the Saturday Met broadcast, especially if the opera was Verdi, Puccini, or Mozart.

As a teen I joined a choral group (I was still a tenor then) and we sang Mozart's Requiem, Haydn's Creation, other great choral works. And I also began building a nice stereo and a collection of classical LPs. This was in the 50s-60s.

First opera I saw live was a local English language production of Carmen. I was also in the chorus, so the first opera I saw was the first opera I performed in. Funny, eh?

In college I sang in a choral group and also a blues band off campus and I also played electric bass. This was when my voice really changed to baritone. If a young boy is trained as a high boy soprano, during puberty his voice changes slowly, taking years sometimes.

I gave up singing for several years -- left the church, travelled around the country, bummed about Florida and the southeast, supporting myself with my pool playing (and other things -- heh heh). Soon after I went to work for the government and did some -- ah -- "intersting" work near Green Belt Maryland. During this time I had a TS (top secret) clearance. The things I saw!

Then I went back to Kansas City, got married and went back to school for my Master's in chemistry, had zero time to sing "seriously".

After divorce I moved to San Francisco and began to sing in church again, joined a choral group and began to study voice seriously for the first time. I joined a small opera company and began to perform in the chorus, singing in the original languages. After I returned to Houston I took many private singing lessons and became a fairly good amateur baritone, singing in quite a few operas, both chorus and in some small roles. It was hard work but great fun. My normal low is low-E and I can often get down to a low-Eflat. High? I regularly sing a strong G about C and sometimes can get up to A-natural and even B-flat about C. I also have excellent pitch and breath control, and I'm fearless on stage -- unafraid with zero stage fright, do some fun comedic roles like Antonio the Gardner in Nozze. 

During this tiem I did some, ah, "security" work but soon got away from that stuff -- too much pressure and too many people watching each other.

In the meantime I began to regularly attend Houston Grand Opera and the 3 or 4 opera companies set up in the university music programs here. During this time I found that opera is a genuine "babe magnet" and thoroughly enjoyed dating quite a few singers. I seemed to find mezzos the most fun. Luckily my income has been excellent and that pays my way into most any show I wish to see. And yes, when they come to Houston, I always get floor tickets for the Rolling Stones!

After my bad legs gave out and needed surgery, I reluctantly gave up stage work and then sang with a large choral society, singing Carmina Burana and so on.

Nowdays I'm very busy full time at work as an engineering consultant for the oil and gas industry, and occasionally I sing at weddings and such. I have season tickets to the Houston Grand Opera and my girlfriend and I go often. She's a newcomer to classics but she's really enjoying it. Rigoletto blew her away.

I've also just sent the corrected galley proofs to the publisher for my first novel, a private detective mystery. So I've been very busy. I'm also writing an articla for the NRA about gun safety and I'm working on 3 short stories. I'm also working on finishing my 2nd mystery novel. Whew.

Later I may get on with more formal singing but that will be perhaps a year later. The Mozart concert aria I'm learning now is Io Ti Lascio.

First opera I ever loved as Magic Flute! And it's still in my top 5 greatest. These days I have dozens of opera CDs and DVDs and listen/watch them regularly. I listen to opera at work or when driving around in my T-Bird. I still love Mozart the best, Don Giovanni, Magic Flute, and Nozze the best. I also love Verdi and Puccini, some Wagner and others. I also like Philip Glass.

So, after some active performance in operas, I'm nowdays a spectator only. But that's okay for me, at least for now.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks, Weston, it is good to get perspectives from those of us a bit newer to the genre as well!

@katdad:


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## Bgroovy2 (Mar 27, 2009)

Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all?
Very much so. Even though as was brought up around and played classical music, I did not care for opera

How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? 
The first opera that I attended was "Madam Butterfly." It was an interesting experiance. I began to see opera as an art-form that I needed to further explore. But what really got me to that point was my vocal coach. It was after begining my study of Bel-Canto singing that I really began to see and gain intrest in what these people were doing! At this time, I was in my mid thirties.

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?
Oh yes; I am now exploring the music of "Boy Sapranos." This falls into the realm of classical singing as well, but not nessesarly opera. I find these young voices to be pure and void of many of the defects that plague the "Professional."


Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? 
My wife, although not a big fan, appreciates this type of music and will go to a show with me!


Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?
There is always new material and styles to expolore. Right now, I am working on my first Alto arias: Behold a Virgin Shall Conceive, and O Thou that Tellest. These are both from the piece that I consider to be the greatest oritorio ever written, The Messiah. These peices fall well within my tenor vocal range.

Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?
Yes, throw away your 21st century, preconceived idea of what singing is supposed to sound like and listen with and open mind and let your heart feel the emotion of the aria, you will be surprized at what you begin to hear!


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Oh, yeah. I'm usually a much better speller but I was in a hurry that day. Eeeek!


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

On a side note, although I was into opera even as a young guy, it was my wife who got me interested in dance. She had studied under Eric Bruhn at the National Ballet of Canada and then danced in the corps at the San Francisco Ballet -- so she was pretty good.

Thanks to her, I've become a big fan of dance. Merce Cunningham is my fave.


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## David C Coleman (Nov 23, 2007)

Yes, I've still got get into opera properly. I like most forms of classical music, and indeed a lot of different types of music, but opera still evades me. I think primarily of the time-span of them. I like highlights and bits and pieces of opera, still got to go the whole hog!!...


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## Gneiss (Feb 3, 2009)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

My dad used to watch/listen the broadcasts whenever it was on, mostly sung in English in those days - as a child I just found it boring.

However I was always fascinated by the sopranos, more so from old films with the likes of Deanna Durbin who to this day I adore. Others notable names from film that stand out were Jeannette McDonald, Nelson Eddy and of course Mario Lanza. So I suppose it was that I came to appreaciate the operatic voice rather than opera.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

There is no doubt that the two experiences are entirely different but I'm happy to listen to recorded materiel in the comfort of my out home. It's fair to say that most theatre seats certainly make you suffer for the art!!

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

La Traviata has always been my favourite, and I can't really see that changing.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Possibly a little, but I don't think I'll ever fully appreciate Wagner.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_

My wife isn't really keen, although she enjoyed La Boheme (the movie) when we went to see it at Warwick Arts centre. And she is coming to see Anna Netrebko live with me…

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_

None I would rule out, but I do tend to stick to what I know I like and "discover" others by accident.

_And, if you've liked opera for some years:

Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Yes, just follow your nose and go with what YOU enjoy… If you don't think Maria Callas is the best thing since sliced bread them so be it!


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_
First, some background... I grew up with "Milton Cross- Stories of the Great Operas" in my house, so I was familiar with a few opera plots fairly early on. From there, I happily absorbed "Opera hits" vinyl selections at about the same time I developed in interest in other 'Classical Pops' pieces. It was a little while, though, before my adolescent attention span was equal to the demands of a complete opera.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_
I'm a great believer in the premise that opera is best enjoyed in live performance. The perennial obstacle, of course, is ticket prices. Possibly more important than performance attendance is performance philanthropy. Whether it's Opera or Symphony Orchestra, I try to find one worthy ensemble, and show some generosity to that group.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_
The first opera I saw live was Verdi's _Rigoletto_- and I remember the performance with fondness. The second opera I saw was Wagner's _Die Meistersinger_. My teenaged mental focus was insufficient to fully appreciate it. Verdi's "galley-operas" (Rig/Trav/Tro) were the gateway, along with Bizet's _Carmen_.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_
If someone had told my high-school self that I'd eventually embrace Wagner's lengthy constructs, I don't think I would have been too surprised. If someone had told me that I'd eventually enjoy Puccini... that _would_ have been a surprise.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_
Hot_town/Philly doesn't enjoy opera quite as much a I do... but we still take in performances together.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_
Yes, yes... and yes. How's _that_ for ambiguity!

_And, if you've liked opera for some years:
Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_
That old tape-company slogan "because the music matters" is a key thing to consider when beginning to absorb opera. However, having said that, it's now probably more important than ever to have a strong familiarity with the story before viewing an opera, whether live or on DVD. [This goes doubly for viewers of 'Euro-trash' productions.]


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> _Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_
> Yes, yes... and yes. How's _that_ for ambiguity!


That's not ambiguity, that's just not an informative answer.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Rasa said:


> That's not ambiguity, that's just not an informative answer.


There there, no one has to answer all the questions, and indeed most people haven't. They were just some ideas for things one could mention.

Surely you wouldn't have been bothered if he had simply not answered that one at all!


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## vavaving (Apr 20, 2009)

Operatics happen to be amusing in one way or another; e.g.

The Really Really Long Note

The Opera Singer

Vivica Genaux

O Fortuna I

O Fortuna II

That's about the extent of my interest...


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Yes before the age of 12 I wasn't really into music at all, but for some reason I joined band, picked up a instrument and the rest was history.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_

Very important recordings are nice, but seeing the staging the lighting the acoustical live orchestra adds so much more.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

_La Traviata_, I had seen other operas before but it was a recording of this one specifically, that ended up cpaturing my mind and from there on out I started to explorer other aspects of classical music.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Yes, I have started to move out of the Romantic and look into more 20th century works. Also with in the Romantic Sphere I've started explorer the works of lesser known composers and composer's who aren't particularly known for opera.
_
Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

No, this is my own solitary pursuit. And I like it that way. Altough I do like bringin freinds to the opera just to show them what's it's all about.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Yes, I'm hoping to explorer more Baroque operas. I couldn't say never to anything within classical music I find it all of it fascinating.

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Lots and lots of perseverance. Opera takes time, and one must understand that from the start.


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## wolf (May 16, 2009)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?
_
I became interested in opera the day I got interested in classical music. I hardly know of anyone who loves classical 'but not opera'. In this forum they are plentyful though.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

Of COURSE live opera is the greatest thing. And with a firstclass production with great singers it's an experience out of this world...Although that hadn't anything to do with my appreciation of opera really.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

Noone in particular. I loved them all.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Not much, although I shrugged of 'Samson & Dalila', and Donizetti, I enjoy them now, especially the former, who has became a favorite.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

Lucklily I still got plenty although they are slowly diminishing both in numbers and in musicality. I'm single now, but my former wife was a great opera fan.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Modern opera, todays you might say is still a field where I haven't done much listening. 
I have no wish to explore the 'combination stuff' with rock or 'popera'.

And, if you've liked opera for some years:

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Not much, just listen. If you have a hard time with recitatives, try not to attach too much importance to them. And remember there are all KINDS of operas.

A good bunch of questions.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Of course, before i liked any form of Classical

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

I had appreciation for the opera but when i went to my first opera i really loved it. Its much better to see them (even on DVD) than to just hear the music

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

Wagner, my favorite still is Die Walkure, but the one i saw live first that spawned this love was Janaceks The Makroupolous Case

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_
No

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

None of my friends  though my parents do..

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Im recently getting into the old italian stuff, Verdi and Puccini or Rossini.

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

much better to start with Baroque or Classical operas than anything Modern


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*La Scala*

Anyone ever been to La Scala?

I have to take a business trip and was thinking of staying over a few extra days in Milan to take it in.

Showing will be A Midsummer Night's Dream.

Thanks


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


I didn't know much about it (except "they're singing in there") till I read an opera book and wanted to see one. I didn't care and still don't care too much of other genres - except a few Lieder and Requiems.


How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?

My first opera was experience was live, but most of my favourites came from recordings and videos. Still, live is the best thing - but traveling and money... 



What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?

Trovatore was my first. I was immediately into Verdi, Puccini, Mozart and those with 1-2 popular works. 


Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?

Yeah. About 2 years ago I suddenly became obsessed with the Ring, and this year with Britten too.



Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?

Some friends yes, but we only meet on performances, that's too rare.


Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?

I'd need to explore Richard Strauss - all I heard was Salome on recording. I absolutely DON'T want to explore anything atonal.


Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?

Begin with Verdi or Puccini, continue with Mozart. The rest will come.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

This is so interesting, seeing all the different ways into opera.

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

My first real introduction to classical music was Stravinsky's Rite of spring which blew me away (aged about 12). Then Grieg, Mahler, Sibelius and romantic stuff. Opera just didn't do it for me. The one day aged about 20 I was listening to Radio 3 and Maria Callas came on singing La Traviata. I was immediately hooked. Verdi was my king!

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? 
_
At first I fed my interest though recordings. But then after university I went to live in London and I got subscription tickets to ENO first, and then Covent garden. Live performance was important to me, it made me appreciate the all-rounded nature of opera, music and theatre and humanity and emotions. Not to mention hearing live some pretty dem hot singers. (Ah Placido Domingo's legs in Samson and Dalilah...sigh.. Oh and the voice of course)

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

I remember going about 3 times to Jonathan Miller's Rigoletto at ENO (and eventually met the Rigoletto, John Rawnsley, on a champagne-fuelled flight back from Milan one day and realised that being an opera singer was (a) less glamorous than I had thought and (b) required a lot of resilience and preferably a good ego!)

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Again at that time I remember slumbering through a Xerxes and Philip Glass's Akhnaten. I am so angry now, I'd kill to go back and see them!! Particularly the latter as there's no chance of ever seeing it on DVD.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

No, my husband categorically said the other day "I can't stand opera" and I have no friends who are interested (thank goodness for the internet and forums!!). But a glimmer of hope - I took my 14-year old to see Eugene Onegin the other day and she was blown away. And she's going to see the Met broadcast of Tosca at the cinema with me next week. But the brightest hope is the 7-year-old who is glued to the screen every time I put a DVD on, and sometimes asks if she can have opera instead of her kid's programmes. The challenge there is finding things that are suitable (trying explaining severed heads, crotch fondling and men leading women around on a rope from the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare, not to mention the "that's a lady being a man, no, that's really a man even if he has a high voice" conversation !!)

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Like many others on this thread, I'm getting seriously into Baroque opera, particularly Handel (although the DVD thread is opening lots of possibilities too). The conventions are different from what I have previously been used to, but once you've got accustomed to the "all action stops for an aria" idea, the music is really awesome and I love the way it explores the character's emotions. 
As for not wishing to explore something, I've realised that you can get to like many things if you are in the right mood or try for long enough. So, maybe, one day, Wagner here I come!

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?
_
Get a well-paying job.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Interesting thread.

My venture into opera began with Baroque and Classical works, and so far, it seems I'm stuck there! It began with an oratorio, Handel's _Messiah_, which led me to explore more of Handel's music in general and of course that would inevitably land oneself to his operas and other oratorios. The first Handel opera I bought on recording was his _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ (Concerto Koln/Jacobs), still remains one of my favourite operas. I now have nearly all of Handel's roughly 40 operas on recording (and his oratorios, several of which are effectively operas). From there, I "expanded" out into other Barqoue and Classical operas. The first Classical opera on recording I bought was Mozart's _Die Entfuhrung aus dem Serail_ (Academy of Ancient Music/Hogwood).

The last decade or two have seen enormous number of recordings and performances of Baroque operas, much to my delight. Operas by Vivaldi, Telemann, Graun, Keiser have slowly but surely taking my spend on opera recordings.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> As for not wishing to explore something, I've realised that you can get to like many things if you are in the right mood or try for long enough. So, maybe, one day, Wagner here I come!


Never say never.

Just finished watching the entire Ring on Met Player and I'm listening to Flying Dutchman. Wagner rocks.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Yes, about six months ago.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_

Never seen live opera yet. Hope to change it soon.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

Der Freischutz by C.M von Weber and Verdi's Traviata.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

I started with light, easy-listening stuff and then moved to Wagner.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_

No.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_

Modern opera of 20th and 21st century.

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Forget the stereotypical ideas about opera and just listen.


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## Sandy (Dec 23, 2009)

I was really lucky in having my mother accompany well-known opera singers in the early 1940s . She toured with Nadine Conner and several others. Half the family studied at the Conservatory in Los Angeles where many of my cousins also attended. I had a very lovely soprano for a cousin and Mother promoted her and her husband and they ended up in the San Francisco Opera Company. In those days the entire company came to Los Angeles for several weeks a year and I got to attend all their performances. My favorte operas in those days were Mozart. I learned my Shakespeare love in the opera house. I kept notes and programs of the music and the costumes. I became a costumer for a Shakesperean theater in Los Angeles for many years and remember what stood out on the stage and how to spot the bad guys due to their colored costumes. 

When I married with my children we had "free opera" in Los Angeles in the park and in San Francisco where we would drive 450 miles to sit in the park and enjoy the music. My kids grew up with symphonic and opera music and my youngest girl still attends the Washington D.C. Opera company. 

I was not certain I could listen to Wagner in the same way I could listen to Mozart, Verdi or Puccini. The San Francisco did the complete Ring that came over my television in 4 separate nights. I had an eleven inch screen with poor audio but I was transfixed with how he used themes for his characters. On the fifth night I found myself missing the music and the voices and I knew I was hooked. Years before I sat through Parsifal with Svet Svanholm and I slept through most of it. I had a small surgery on my shoulder and I think too much pain medication. In my opinion the Dutchman and the Ring are fabulous.

There is nothing in Arizona that could compare with the San Francisco Opera Company but back then I was backstage during several rehearsals and had my fanny patted by Pinza after his performance as the great Don Giovanni. I was 18 and thrilled at this....Of course then I had a cute fanny.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Sandy said:


> I was really lucky in having my mother accompany well-known opera singers in the early 1940s . She toured with Nadine Conner and several others. Half the family studied at the Conservatory in Los Angeles where many of my cousins also attended. I had a very lovely soprano for a cousin and Mother promoted her and her husband and they ended up in the San Francisco Opera Company. In those days the entire company came to Los Angeles for several weeks a year and I got to attend all their performances. My favorte operas in those days were Mozart. I learned my Shakespeare love in the opera house. I kept notes and programs of the music and the costumes. I became a costumer for a Shakesperean theater in Los Angeles for many years and remember what stood out on the stage and how to spot the bad guys due to their colored costumes.
> 
> When I married with my children we had "free opera" in Los Angeles in the park and in San Francisco where we would drive 450 miles to sit in the park and enjoy the music. My kids grew up with symphonic and opera music and my youngest girl still attends the Washington D.C. Opera company.
> 
> ...


  Nice to know.

That's a good story, by the way.

My own opera journey is non-existant because I have yet to enjoy an operatic performance all the way through. I can dig bits and pieces, mainly the overtures, and the occasional aria but as a whole the concept doesn't appeal to me. And I know people always say you've got to see opera live to get the full experience but why would I go to see something already believing I won't enjoy it. Maybe in a few years my opinions will change. As little as 5 years ago I didn't imagine I'd even be listening to any classical music let alone playing classical guitar. It probably doesn't help that I know absolutely nobody who likes opera at all and most genuinely hate it.


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## Sandy (Dec 23, 2009)

Argus. It all depends on what we were raised with. My age group had no television as children and we did have radio and music records. My kids had all the classics and their own choices. My Son was an Elvis fan. My older girl was Dead Head and my younger loved Saint Saens. We shared Shakespeare as a family group and every year we celebrated Beethoven's birthday as the start of the Christmas holiday. We lived on a mountain top away from neighbors so we made our own entertainment. I had a baby grand piano and we all could play a tune or two. We had a bagpipe, several guitars and my old ukelele. The noise must have been terrible. We had a lot of free concerts in the Santa Monica Mountains and we attended all of them as I was always in need of money. We make our own culture as we please.


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

nefigah said:


> _Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?
> 
> I have always loved the human singing voice so after I got into choral music, opera was a natural step.
> 
> ...


_

I also want to say that I look forward to reading this forum._


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

My real introduction to opera must have begun via the music sung in church. We attended a Lutheran church, my mother sang in the choir, and Bach was certainly a central figure in the musical life. As a first grew interested in classical music, the Baroque was my starting ground: Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi. I began with the instrumental works: the Four Seasons, the Brandenburg Concertos, the Royal Fireworks Music, the organ pieces, Suites for Orchestra, etc... but soon I became interested in the choral works: the Mass in D, the cantatas, the Messiah, etc... From this point I began to branch out into collecting discs of opera overtures and arias. There was so much wonderful music that I wanted to delve into it deeper... but a full-blown opera seemed so forbidding.

In my first year of college both the orchestra (The Cleveland Orchestra!) and the opera made free tickets available to students on a first come/first serve basis. I got tickets to Verdi's _Aida_ and went with several classmates. The entire experience was magical. The theater with all the ornate gilding, frescoes, and Victorian rococo design was spectacular; the crowds of people dressed in their finest attire brought the paintings of Degas' theater scenes to life; a couple glasses of wine and then all the scents of all the womens' perfume as we were crowded together in our seats was an overwhelming sensory experience... something out of Baudelaire, with whom I was then deeply enamored. The show itself was spectacular... theater well beyond what one might have imagined... and then came the climactic scene in which all the conquered peoples are bringing tribute to the Egyptian Pharaoh: dancers with silks and satins, casks of gold and silver... and then came the animals: goats, horses, camels... and as the music neared the climax: a tiger! And then... at the very peak... three elephants came out upon the stage just as the stage lights were dramatically intensified creating an almost telescopic vision as the scene seemingly zoomed toward me. From the moment on I was an opera fanatic.

I have more than a sizable collection of opera recordings: current HIP performances... and collections of arias by many of the older singers of true genius: Maria Callas, Fritz Wunderlich, Beniamino Gigli, Joan Sutherland, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Jussi Björling, Rita Streich, Kathleen Ferrier, etc... In spite of this, I would never underestimate the value of seeing an opera in person before drawing any conclusions. My wife, who was in no way a big classical music fan... let alone an opera aficionado left her fist opera, _The Magic Flute_, in tears.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

New member here. 
35 years old, and I've only recently, as of about six months ago, started to get into opera. I was vaguely familiar with bits and pieces from Amadeus, TV commercials, and of course Bugs Bunny. My mom listened to classical music fairly often as I was growing up, and while it was not my favorite genre of music, I own most of the 'staples' on cd. What got me to learn more about opera was a recent rewatch of Amadeus. I love the music of course, except for the part from the Magic Flute (which I know now is Der Holle Rache). I always thought that was by far the worst music in the film and decided to investigate it more to see if it was something I was missing or if it was in fact as silly as it seems the way it's presented there.

That led to two things: first, the meaning of the aria in context of the opera's story, and secondly the Diana Damrau Covent Garden performance on Youtube. It goes without saying that I was blown away and my opinion of the aria did a complete 180 (though I still think the version in Amadeus is a poor version of it -- both June Anderson's singing (sounds like she's struggling to hit the F) and the way it is presented in the movie).

Instantly became a huge Diana Damrau fan and watched more of her clips, along with other famous songs. For example, I had always thought that song where a guy sings "Figaro" over and over again was pretty silly. And of course after watching some youtube clips (with translations), I found it was a very funny song. After watching Thomas Hampson sing it, I was again blown away. And then I found an instrumental version with the lyrics presented so you can try to sing it yourself -- a karaoke version, if you like -- and I found out that it was a ridiculously difficult, challenging aria; basically a tongue-twister set to music.

From there I kept watching more and more -- different songs, different singers, and so on. Recently went to my first opera (The Marriage of Figaro) and had an amazing experience. Next up is Tosca in Denver in April; it was recommended to me due to Sondra Radvanovsky in the titular role.

In honesty, I'm finding it difficult to get into Tosca and other Romantic period operas so far. Mozart is much more approachable in my opinion, which I'm certain is due to my relative novice status. And I find coloratura sopranos much more pleasing to the ear than Verdi or Full Lyric sopranos. Again, I expect that as I familiarize myself with opera more and more, my tastes will begin to mature.

I think opera is, at least theoretically, saleable to a wider audience than it currently enjoys. Granted I had at least some familiarity with classical music which helped, but I think targeting the more approachable operas to 20-somethings -- showcasing famous songs and *why* they are famous; i.e., Via Resti Servita is hilarious if given a good translation and not relying strictly on the music to sell it to the non-opera fan -- is definitely viable.

edit: for favorite opera, so far it would be Nozze. I've watched clips from many different versions on youtube and own a couple. Such great music, so many hilarious parts. And I love comparing / contrasting different takes on the same scene. My favorite version thus far is is the Alison Hagley - Bryn Terfel mid-90s version. Both are spectacular in their roles, and I love Bryn Terfel's voice.


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## OperaSaz (Feb 12, 2010)

I had always appreciated classical music since a young age as my grandfather was an enthusiast and I was exposed to the genre from a young age. However, with regard to opera I did not form an interest until my early 20's. My family, although they love classical music, did not listen to opera or appreciate it, so neither did I.

Then when I went travelling in South America in my early 20's I went to an opera performance in a beautiful church in Bolivia....and was taken aback at how beautiful and powerful it was experience live. It was not a particular opera but a collection of different songs/arias. From then on I tried to catch a lot more live perofirmances....and the rest is history! It's funny that of all the countries I developed a love for opera in, it was Bolivia. not the first place people associate operatic performance with!

Saz
------
"Opera is an 18th- and 19th-century art that must find a 20th-century audience."


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

Interesting topic! 

I'm 24, no one in my family (wife included now) listens to classical music. What got me started was a cd bundle that included a classical music sampler my dad bought from a garage sale when I was about 11. He didn't care for the sampler, so I took it and after hearing Bachs "air on the g string" I was hooked. 

My first try listening to opera was about 5 or 6 years ago with a library rental of Tristan und Isolde. I remember enjoying the prelude, but I just really wasn't ready for the singing...plus my then girlfriend (now wife) and her family also didn't understand it, and I was living with them at the time, so..it wasn't meant to happen. I suppose what warmed me up to vocal music over the years was the Bach Cantatas and Rachmaninoff vespers. When it was posted here that Die Meistersingers (Barenboim) was on sale for $6 (check amazon), I couldn't resist trying opera once again! 

I'm still getting use to it, I really can't say I was completely blown away by Die Meistersinger, but I enjoyed it enough to warrant a Tristan und Isolde (Barenboim) purchase. I think I'm headed next towards puccini. I would love to try the ring cycle, but...I'm not really someone who enjoys fantasy and myths (although I'll stomach it if the music is good). Real life is just too interesting and beautiful to spend time focused on water nymphs and the antics of Gods, I just can't do it, same goes for movies and books.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

David58117 said:


> I'm still getting use to it, I really can't say I was completely blown away by Die Meistersinger, but I enjoyed it enough to warrant a Tristan und Isolde (Barenboim) purchase. I think I'm headed next towards puccini. I would love to try the ring cycle, but...I'm not really someone who enjoys fantasy and myths (although I'll stomach it if the music is good). Real life is just too interesting and beautiful to spend time focused on water nymphs and the antics of Gods, I just can't do it, same goes for movies and books.


Definitely check out Mozart next (preferably on DVD/blu ray). Marriage of Figaro or Cosi Fan Tutte should be right up your alley, and are very approachable 

The Ring is some of the best music ever written, and the fantasy is just the setting through which common human themes are presented. That said, you might be interested in one of the many performances of the Ring that attempt to ditch the dragons-and-swords staging. In any case, if you plan to seriously tackle the Ring, I strongly recommend this excellent introduction. It does a lot toward explaining how the music is as important to the drama as the characters.

Everyone, this thread has turned out even better than I hoped  It's great to read your experiences!


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

nefigah said:


> Definitely check out Mozart next (preferably on DVD/blu ray). Marriage of Figaro or Cosi Fan Tutte should be right up your alley, and are very approachable
> 
> The Ring is some of the best music ever written, and the fantasy is just the setting through which common human themes are presented. That said, you might be interested in one of the many performances of the Ring that attempt to ditch the dragons-and-swords staging. In any case, if you plan to seriously tackle the Ring, I strongly recommend this excellent introduction. It does a lot toward explaining how the music is as important to the drama as the characters.
> 
> Everyone, this thread has turned out even better than I hoped  It's great to read your experiences!


For a realistic DVD of Mozart I would recomend The Marriage of Figaro by Ponnelle.He does really well with Rossini as well.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I pretty much discovered opera, and classical music in general, when I was about 13 and started taking LPs out at my library on Long Island, and just got hooked on opera and classical music.
My library had an extensive collection of classical LPs, and later CDs, including many complete recordings of operas, standard and non-standard. I learned to follow the librettos with translations in the booklets, and became familiar with Italian,French, German, and even Russian and Czech. 
Now when I listen to operas I know well, I don't even need the libretto. I have them practically memorized ! I've never regretted this !


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## TWhite (Feb 23, 2010)

Great topic!

Actually, my first real exposure to opera came when I was a music major in college and began accompanying solo singers. Before that time, I had concentrated mainly on piano solo or orchestral music or accompanying my high school chorus. 

Trying to remember back that far, I believe the first operatic aria I accompanied was "Un Bel Di" , and I really liked the way it was laid out for the piano. Then later, came the Verdi and Mozart arias, and gradually I began to want to hear if the operas that they were from were as interesting as the 'bits' that I was accompanying. 

I'd say my first exposure to complete operas was Puccini, Verdi and Mozart. I liked Puccini for the long melodic lines, Verdi for the drama and Mozart--well, pretty much because it was as close to perfect as I'd ever heard. 

As I continued on with vocal accompanying, realizing that it was my REAL forte and not solo piano music, I began exploring a lot of opera. Composers came and went--but mostly stayed--and by the time I was really 'traveling' in my professional career, I'd seen performances of a great deal of Puccini, Verdi, Mozart and Donizetti. My tastes were pretty Italianate at the time (Mozart being the sorta/kinda exception), and I really hadn't begun to explore German opera. 

My introduction to German opera was accompanying the "Composer's Aria" from Richard Strauss' "Ariadne Auf Naxos", and that was a pretty HEADY introduction, let me tell you. I became fascinated by Strauss, and then gradually worked my way back a little to Wagner. Then forward to Korngold and finally Berg. I don't mind telling you that I was hooked. Oddly enough, the victim of my new-found operatic loves, happened to be Puccini, the composer of the first aria I ever accompanied. Puccini gradually faded away (except for "Turandot"), and was replaced by Strauss' 'Big Three' ("Salome", "Elektra" and "Der Rosenkavalier") and then Wagner. At first, it was the earlier Wagner operas like "Dutchman" and "Tannhauser", then gradually I got the courage to tackle "Tristian" and "The Ring". I'm still running hot and cold on The Ring, but I have a VERY healthy appetite for "Die Meistersinger" and "Parsifal". And you couldn't DRAG me out of a good production of Strauss' "Capriccio", Korngold's "Die Tote Stadt" or Berg's "Wozzek," because I would nail myself to the seat. 

I've not really gotten into Russian opera, save for Mussorgky's "Boris Gudunov" and Borodin's "Prince Igor" (which has a lot more going for it than just the 'Polovstian Dances', BTW) , though I have heard a recording of Rachmaninov' "Aleko" that makes me wonder why it's hardly ever produced. 

French opera, I'm sorry to say, leaves me pretty much out in the rain, except for some parts of Debussy's "Pelleas et Melisande" and Ravel's very clever "L'Heure Espagnole". But by and large, for me, French opera seems to be more about 'things' than 'people' (I know, bad analogy, but it's the best I can come up with, right now). 

As for English and American opera--I'm still debating. I do like Britten's "Turn Of The Screw" and Barber's "Vanessa", but I've yet to find out just what contemporary opera composers like John Adams are trying to get at. It may come, it may not. If it does; fine. If it doesn't; Oh well--

But yes, live performances of operas can be remarkable. Just give me a decent performance, and I don't care if I'm in Orchestra, or the 'nosebleed' section of third balcony--if it's well written and well performed, I'll be leaning forward in my seat absorbing it totally. 

Tom


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

What a great thread, it's fascinating reading through everyone's journeys.

Some opera experts have derided my journey & in the past I've been embarrassed to share it but now I love opera so much I don't care what people think.

I got into it simply because I fancied José Carreras. I didn't like the singing much  I just thought he was the fittest guy ever. I eventually started listening to him but only collections. Or I'd play an opera & skip the non-José tracks. 

Then I got my first mp3 player & downloaded collections & operas. I couldn't be bothered to keep stopping to skip tracks & *sigh* had to *listen to the whole opera*. :angry: It wasn't long of course before I loved the whole thing.

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all?_

Yes. When I was young my parents tried too hard to get me interested & I rebelled.

_Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Same as above

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_

I adore 'learning' an opera before I go but I still love ones which I may not see performed

_What specific opera do you first recall loving?_

Simon Boccanegra

_What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

N/A José Carreras 

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Yes and yes - I am prepared to try really obscure ones now

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_

Unfortunately not at the moment.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_

I don't like English composers but I'm going to try & get over this prejudice.

_And, if you've liked opera for some years:

Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Get a well known opera with synopsis & libretto & give yourself time to get to know it. Don't expect to fall in love or even like on first hearing, but with a bit of an effort you will be rewarded a million times over.

Have fun


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## Sandy (Dec 23, 2009)

Speaking of Lucia Popp, I may have posted this before but it is worth doing do again.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

I've never really listened to opera previously, so I guess "don't care for it" would not be a fair choice of words. Certainly I spent most of my life not being interested in opera at all. I've casually listened to classical for eight or ten years, more seriously over the last two. Opera has come to interest me only in the past month or two

*
How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*

Not at all. We have a decent local music scene in my small area, but to my knowledge no opera to speak of.
*
What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

A little aside on how I came to the genre in the first place; even though I like classical music that wasn't what drew me in. I've listened to some modern bands whom use operatically trained singers; specifically Nightwish. My favorite songs by them are the ones that are less metal-ly and employ her operatic vocals (Specifically the Forever Moments....I recommend you check this song out, amazing!) I wanted more music like that, and wasn't satisfied. So I decided to skip the "operatically trained modern musicians" and go straight into opera.

I started compilations of famous duets and arias, to absorb smaller chunks. Once they started to grow on me, I went with Puccini to continue my exploration. The first one I've really fully explored and latched on to was Suor Angelica. I am a new mother with a four month old son, so the theme in the opera moved me deeply. Other than this one, I have not fully listened to a full opera through in one sitting, though I've completed Madame Butterfly in separate sittings and two acts of La Boheme.
*
Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

I would say "no" so far. Since I've only listened for six or eight weeks, that's not much time to evaluate.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?*

No. But my mother liked what I shared of Suor Angelica. We're both music nuts so I hope to win her over.

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

The next opera I want to explore would probably be Tosca, as I like some samples I've heard. But I probably should move on beyond Puccini at some point! The story of Wozzeck interests me. I haven't been inspired by the bits I've heard, but I know that fragments tell you nothing, so eventually I'll give it a try. I know I want to try out Verdi's Otello and Macbeth; I've always enjoyed Othello the play and I'm a sucker for dark haunting music, and I've heard Otello fits the bill.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

*Opera and HD home theater system..........*

I did not become big opera fan till last few years with affordable big screen HD home theater system being the key, ability to watch opera with subtitles with great sound and picture quality in comfort of home

CD versions now are much more enjoyable after you understand the opera and recognize scences while listening


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?

_Definitely. It took a couple of decades for me to get into opera, counting from my interest for classical music, and today I love opera a lot more than other genres of classical music._

How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?

_Not really - by the time I started to attend my first performances, I already liked opera from watching DVDs and listening to CDs_

What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?

_Carmen. Curiously, today it isn't one of my very favorites any longer._

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?

_Sure. I now love almost everything, accross the ages, and accross the languages, while at first I used to enjoy much more Italian opera_

Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?

_Yes, but I like it more_

Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?

_Many. I have a long list of goals, some 50 to 100 operas that I'm dying to explore. There is nothing that I don't want to explore. Even when an opera is not too good, I always manage to find some fragment, some aria, some ensemble that I like._

And, if you've liked opera for some years:

Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?

_Start by those with more popular appeal, such as La Traviata, La Bohème, Carmen, and then later the interest for others will naturally follow. Do some reading. Knowing more about the genre and the various vocal ranges and techniques, etc, enhances one's enjoyment, although it is not essential for starters, because the sheer beauty of operatic music is quite enough to conquer converts when you listen to a good performance._


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Wow, I was canvassing the board for Salome comments for our Recommended DVD projects and I bumped into this old thread. It's very interesting and worth resurrecting to the first page for safekeeping. Once I finish my job with the Salome vote I'll read it more attentively and contribute. Another reason to inject new life into this thread is that ever since we've had several opera fans joining the forum and they may want to share their stories too.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I think my first post was in this thread. Hard to believe it was nearly a year ago, and interesting to read my thoughts then compared to now.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I think my first post was in this thread. Hard to believe it was nearly a year ago, and interesting to read my thoughts then compared to now.


OK, nice, so, it was good that I bumped it. And happy TC anniversary!:tiphat:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Thanks alma this has been fascinating to read through again

And for any other new members who might be interested, there is some more biographical stuff here


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh, I said I'd contribute, and now I realize I had contributed already. Reading one's own past words is interesting. Six months later what would I change? I think that above I've underestimated live performances, when I think about my past journey more carefully. They were actually very important and if I make a better effort to remember correctly, it actually took me longer to get into DVDs than I seem to have indicated above. Also, by now I *did* find some operas that I don't like. I'm totally into baroque now which wasn't always the case, and I've enjoyed modernist and contemporary operas more than I had expected.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

_Simon Boccanegra_ is still my favourite


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Strange, I could have sworn I'd posted here before.

To oversimplify things, I once saw a famous Tosca DVD and didn't really care for it, so then the person who lent me the Tosca had me listen to Britten's Curlew River and that was more or less the thing that got me interested in opera (except that I was already intrigued). So I started listening to 20th century opera blah blah blah and now I'm here where people seem to think I know a bunch about 20th century opera.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

World Violist said:


> and now I'm here where people seem to think I know a bunch about 20th century opera.


Like they say, in the land of the blind...:lol:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

In my first post I said I might get into Wagner one day. Now I have 4 Rings on DVD.

The next challenge for me is Schoenberg. I'm scared.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Have you listened to Berg's operas?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Webernite said:


> Have you listened to Berg's operas?


Only Lulu, but I _did _like it.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

They are both very good. Hehehe, Berg is one of the few composers for whom we can say that 100% of his operas are very good.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Almaviva said:


> They are both very good. Hehehe, Berg is one of the few composers for whom we can say that 100% of his operas are very good.


Does that even count for those who wrote less than 3 operas? I don't think it should... kinda like cheating, really.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Only Lulu, but I _did _like it.


Well, Schoenberg wrote three one-act operas, one regular opera called _Moses und Aron_, which he left unfinished, and an operatic oratorio called _Gurre-Lieder_. Of these, the most important are _Erwartung_ and _Moses und Aron_. Neither of them are easy - they're both heavy on dissonance - but they're in different styles. Almaviva tried _Moses_, if I remember correctly, and he found it OK. So perhaps that would be the one to try first.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Webernite said:


> Well, Schoenberg wrote three one-act operas, one regular opera called _Moses und Aron_, which he left unfinished, and an operatic oratorio called _Gurre-Lieder_. Of these, the most important are _Erwartung_ and _Moses und Aron_. Neither of them are easy - they're both heavy on dissonance - but otherwise they're in different styles. Almaviva tried _Moses_, if I remember correctly, and he found it OK. So perhaps that would be the one to try first.


I found it "OK"??? I was completely blown away! I was stunned! I loved it deeply!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

World Violist said:


> Does that even count for those who wrote less than 3 operas? I don't think it should... kinda like cheating, really.


That's why I said "hehehe."

Beethoven is 100% too, 1 for 1.

I do think that Berlioz is 4 for 4, that's a bit more significant.

I'm still to find a Donizetti opera that I don't like, but he's got so many, at some point I may find one.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I found it "OK"??? I was completely blown away! I was stunned! I loved it deeply!


:lol: It was a while ago! My memory has faded.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I'm still to find a Donizetti opera that I don't like, but he's got so many, at some point I may find one.


Have you heard _Pia De' Tolomei_? I've only heard highlights but it's quite different from his usual fare. I've got _ Elvida_ but don't like it much.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Have you heard _Pia De' Tolomei_? I've only heard highlights but it's quite different from his usual fare. I've got _Elvida_ but don't like it much.


No, not these two.
But then, I don't *want* to find one that I won't like.

Here are the ones I have:

L'elisir d'amore
Lucia di Lammermoor
Roberto Devereux
Maria Stuarda
Lucrezia Boriga
La Fille du Régiment
Don Pasquale
Anna Bolena
La Favorita
Linda di Chamounix

I like them all.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> No, not these two.
> But then, I don't *want* to find one that I won't like.
> 
> Here are the ones I have:
> ...


Haha, just looked up Donizetti on Wikipedia. I knew he was prolific but holy cow, 75 operas? 
Now listening to some of the unknown ones on youtube. The military dance from L'assedio di Calais is quite nice.






User colorturafan has 10 minute excerpts of several of the lesser known Donizetti operas:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Haha, just looked up Donizetti on Wikipedia. I knew he was prolific but holy cow, 75 operas?


Offenbach composed 101. 2 operas and 99 operettas.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Those blasted composers know how to make a guy feel inadequate.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

rgz said:


> Those blasted composers know how to make a guy feel inadequate.


And very poor


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

sospiro said:


> And very poor


Haha, to be sure. I'm not independently wealthy as I like to presume the majority of you are  This upcoming NYC trip is essentially my disposable income for the near future. So please send good vibes Ms. Dessay's way if you'd all be so kind ... if she cancels due to illness I'll throw a fit and maybe even say a bad word or two.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

rgz said:


> Haha, to be sure. I'm not independently wealthy as I like to presume the majority of you are  This upcoming NYC trip is essentially my disposable income for the near future. So please send good vibes Ms. Dessay's way if you'd all be so kind ... if she cancels due to illness I'll throw a fit and maybe even say a bad word or two.


I'm sure Natalie will be fine & in perfect & amazing voice.

You'll have to start your own 'My trip to NYC to see Natalie Dessay thread. Sauce for the goose etc


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Haha, to be sure. I'm not independently wealthy as I like to presume the majority of you are  This upcoming NYC trip is essentially my disposable income for the near future. So please send good vibes Ms. Dessay's way if you'd all be so kind ... if she cancels due to illness I'll throw a fit and maybe even say a bad word or two.


Hm... Maybe I can send a goog vibe or two, but what do I get in exchange? Some support for one of Anna's DVDs?


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

rgz said:


> Haha, to be sure. I'm not independently wealthy as I like to presume the majority of you are  This upcoming NYC trip is essentially my disposable income for the near future. So please send good vibes Ms. Dessay's way if you'd all be so kind ... if she cancels due to illness I'll throw a fit and maybe even say a bad word or two.


I wish I were independently wealthy! If I were, I'd offer to fund a new productions of all of my favorite operas for our local company -- on the condition, of course, that they engage His Kaufmann-ness for all the leading tenor roles!

But since this isn't the case, I'll need to content myself with attending his performances in New York, Chicago, or Cleveland (with his pal Welser-Möst and the Cleveland Orchestra). I'll send lots of good vibes Ms. Dessay's way for your upcoming visit to the Big Apple if you'll send lots of good vibes Herr K's way if/when I head to New York this Fall for "_Faust_."


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

MAuer said:


> I wish I were independently wealthy! If I were, I'd offer to fund a new productions of all of my favorite operas for our local company -- on the condition, of course, that they engage His Kaufmann-ness for all the leading tenor roles!
> 
> But since this isn't the case, I'll need to content myself with attending his performances in New York, Chicago, or Cleveland (with his pal Welser-Möst and the Cleveland Orchestra). I'll send lots of good vibes Ms. Dessay's way for your upcoming visit to the Big Apple* if you'll send lots of good vibes Herr K's way* if/when I head to New York this Fall for "_Faust_."


@rgz - See, buddy, she's also negotiating. This is all a negotiation, buddy, you can't get something for nothing. So, if you want good vibes from me for your Dessay peregrination, I gotta see some support for Anna!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

MAuer said:


> I'll send lots of good vibes Ms. Dessay's way for your upcoming visit to the Big Apple if you'll send lots of good vibes Herr K's way if/when I head to New York this Fall for "_Faust_."


It's a deal 

@Alma -- Believe it or not, I've yet to see a full opera with Ms. Netrebko. My collection is small, maybe 20 or so. I don't even have all of Natalie's dvds yet, and she only has a half dozen or so.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> @Alma -- Believe it or not, I've yet to see a full opera with Ms. Netrebko. My collection is small, maybe 20 or so. I don't even have all of Natalie's dvds yet, and she only has a half dozen or so.


Oh, now I understand why you're not deeply in love with Anna. Once you get her DVDs, you'll be!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Offenbach composed 101. 2 operas and 99 operettas.


Wow, some of these are great. I really want the Met to stage La Perichole with Natalie. She would have a field day with some of these arias. Looks like they last staged it in 1971 -- time for a revival methinks!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Wow, some of these are great. I really want the Met to stage La Perichole with Natalie. She would have a field day with some of these arias. Looks like they last staged it in 1971 -- time for a revival methinks!


I've seen only four of Offenbach's, and loved all four - Les Contes d'Hoffmann, La Vie Parisienne, La Belle Hélène, and Orphée aux Enfers (I do have a fifth one, La Périchole, but it's in my UWP). To think that this is only 5% of his output!!

Offenbach's music is very contagious and inventive. I love his operettas, and of course Les Contes d'Hoffmann is a spectacular masterpiece. So I look forward to exploring more of his output, but his less famous operettas are very hard to find.

I wonder if in France we can find them more easily.


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## prettyhippo (Apr 19, 2011)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?
> 
> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?
> 
> ...


Well, when I was younger, I really liked the parts in cartoons, like Looney Tunes, when they'd pretend to sing opera or something. And I've really always liked classical music, but in recent years I've taken the time to learn about what I was listening to.

I haven't really been to a live performance, but I've watched and listened to recordings of live productions and I think either way it's all amazing, though I would really love to see my favorite operas live, I think it would be kind of emotional.

Well, I was introduced to opera mainly through Puccini. I bought one of those cheap Walmart cds that had a bunch of classical italian songs. I really liked the whole cd, but my favorite was "Nessun Dorma". Then I googled the song and found out that it came from an opera and for the first time, I listened to it with words, sung by Pavarotti. But even then, I would buy Pavarotti cds without knowing what the songs were about or where they came from. But about a year ago I was kind of tired of listening to these beautiful italian songs without knowing anything about them. So I started researching them and then watching the operas they came from. Now, I watch operas even if I've never heard one of its arias. The first opera I ever watched was La Traviata, the Stratas and Domingo film production. Because it's kind of my first, I'm biased, so it's also my favorite.

My tastes have changed. At first, I was like, "No, there are no singers that could possibly compare to Pavarotti. And there are no operas better than Italian operas." But really, I think that view was kind of ridiculous and I feel kind of ashamed for harboring it. But now I'll really listen to anything.

Unfortunately, no one in my life really shares my appreciation for classical or opera. My friends are pretty cool and listen to my raves about operas I've the watched or listened to, but it's more like talking at them. But that's kind of why I joined this site. 

There are a few Italian operas that I have yet to enjoy, but I would like to turn my focus to Russian, French, and German operas.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

prettyhippo said:


> Well, when I was younger, I really liked the parts in cartoons, like Looney Tunes, when they'd pretend to sing opera or something. And I've really always liked classical music, but in recent years I've taken the time to learn about what I was listening to.
> 
> I haven't really been to a live performance, but I've watched and listened to recordings of live productions and I think either way it's all amazing, though I would really love to see my favorite operas live, I think it would be kind of emotional.
> 
> ...


:tiphat:

Substitute José Carreras for Pavarotti & that's similar to mine.

Sadly though, despite the best efforts of my friends on here, I still think Italian operas are the best. French operas have got a toe hold but I keep going back to my Italian composers.

Well done for wanting to explore other types.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

prettyhippo said:


> My tastes have changed. At first, I was like, "No, there are no singers that could possibly compare to Pavarotti. And there are no operas better than Italian operas." But really, I think that view was kind of ridiculous and I feel kind of ashamed for harboring it. But now I'll really listen to anything.


Welcome to the forum if I haven't said it yet, and you came to the right place if you crave opera talk.
You shouldn't be ashamed of your early enthusiasm with Pavarotti and Italian opera, for two simple reasons:
1) Pavarotti *was* indeed one of the best operatic tenors in all of history. He was most definitely not a case of just hype and fame through his "3 Tenors" exposure to the general public. He was a _bona fide_ operatic tenor of the highest possible quality, especially in his earlier recordings, pre-3 Tenors. There is absolutely no shame involved in being a Pavarotti fan.
2) Italian opera *is* indeed very special. After all, the Italians have *created* opera, and Italian opera as well as opera in Italian by foreign composers (e.g. Handel, Mozart) represent a very significant portion of the operatic repertory, and the quality is astounding. Again, there is no shame involved in being a fan of Italian opera, which runs the gamut between light comedy and intense drama, between the baroque of Monteverdi and and the late hints of pre-modernism of Puccini, passing by classical, romantic, verismo... It's a vast universe, and after you do the tour of the main fare, there are still many gems to be discovered, not only by listening to more obscure works of the famous composers, but also to works by more obscure Italian composers.

This said, German/Austrian opera, French opera, Russian opera - and don't forget the Czech Republic and Great Britain (and even the USA!) - will deliver many pleasures to you as well. But you can perfectly explore those without feeling ashamed or ridiculous for also appreciating Italian opera.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all?


Sure. I've had an on/off relationship with opera, Mostly, I think, because I haven't been exposed to opera too much. I used to think that it was rather ridiculous. I've grown up since then and opera now does constitute most of my classical listening.



> Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


I've been into classical music as long as I can remember, really.



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


As I live about 1,000 km or so from the nearest opera house, I don't get to see many live performances. Sure, I do watch DVDs and performances when they are aired on TV, but live performances are different.
But I think my interest in opera increased after I watched Aïda at the Wiener Staatsoper and Lohengrin (with El Guapo) at Bayerischer Staatsoper in about a week a couple of years ago. So they definitely help as catalysts for further opera exploration.



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


I think the first opera I really, really fell in love with was Lohengrin. It was one of the first complete operas I heard/saw. Although all of the subtitles were in German and I didn't really know the story, I completely adored it when I saw it. I still remember I had goosebumps when Jonas Kaufmann sang "Im fernen Land".
The composer that led me into opera however, was Mozart. The first snippet of opera I ever heard was Papageno's first aria from Die Zauberflöte. I think I was about four at the time.



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


I'm not sure. I'm still very much exploring the repertoire, and so far, I've loved just about all of it.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


I do have some friends that enjoy opera. Unfortunately, none of them live near me anymore.



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


Oh, there is so much. I'm very much looking forward to exploring baroque opera even more. I've mostly been listening to those aria CDs that are so prevalent these days. I also want to explore more bel canto, going further than Barbiere, Cenerentola and Lucia. I'm also continuing on my Wagner quest.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? _

When I was an ignorant (though singing) child I knew nothing about opera... but I remember that in high school I already loved classical music. Also, around that time ( I was around 14 y.o), my father brought me to Rigoletto and Il Trovatore (live). I loved it very much, but that ended my opera exposure for a lot of time.

_Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se? _
Yes, during university, I only attended/bought classical/jazz music concerts. But, I lived in a city without an opera house...

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _
I love going to opera live, but that did not influence my love for opera. But, I prefer to "watch" the opera, if not live, than on DVD. After that, I listen to a CD/mp3.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre? _
ehehe... I always loved vocal music. I myself sang in all the choirs I could attend from elementary school to university. I had all Pavarotti, 3 tenors, P&friends CD/DVDs. 
Now, I am a "soprano-like", terrorizing my family!
But I started being an opera freak little by little, but not for a long time. I first borrowed one Angela Gheorghiu CD, and I was blown away by her Casta diva rendition. After that, I checked you tube for the same aria, and I bumped into Maria Callas. It was love at first sight. I ended up buying every CD I could find with her. Then, I am not sure, but I guess the first full opera I got was Rossini's Il Barbiere from the library, the Glyndebourne one, and I loved it desperately. Now I own 4 Barbiere.:lol: And so it goes.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways? _
I continue discovering new music/operas. I still have a waiting list that is quite long.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _
My husband tolerates me within some limits:tiphat:. He joins me when going to the opera house, but never watches/listens to opera CD/DVD other than being forced. He loves classical music, which was like a mandatory, ultimate condition for our friendship.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Yes, Wagner is still open for conquer. I like bits of pieces I listened to, but not everything. I am very Latin in my blood, and I hope I will manage to swallow, without too many hiccups, his Germanic style. But I love Mozart, so why not Wagner! 
Opera subject is quite vast. I doubt I'll manage to get it all. Actually, I am sure that's impossible!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> _Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? _
> 
> When I was an ignorant (though singing) child I knew nothing about opera... but I remember that in high school I already loved classical music. Also, around that time ( I was around 14 y.o), my father brought me to Rigoletto and Il Trovatore (live). I loved it very much, but that ended my opera exposure for a lot of time.
> 
> ...


I like your take on this, Sabrina, and also like the fact that you seem to grant to the visual aspects of a an operatic performance lots of importance, like me.

Yes, it's quite vast, I was surprised when I learned how many operas have been composed so far in these 400 years of history: about 40,000! Quite unbelievable! I had no idea that we had this many. Of those, some 1,000 to 2,000 are said to be worth exploring (depending on how tolerant of less than high quality material one is). And there are a good 300 to 400 that are really fabulous.

Wagner is a must, Sabrina! But I must warn you that Wagner is not like Mozart at all, and vice-versa. They are actually profoundly different. But together with Handel, Verdi, and Berlioz (I know, the latter is for many people a strange choice), they make my 5 favorite opera composers.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes, I know they are completely different. Only their mother tongue is the same.
Again, I love Mozart. But Wagner frightened me a little bit. I do not resonate with that kind of spirit. I love his overtures/preludes, but his opera seemed oppressive for me. I'll try again, maybe with a different approach.
I love Verdi, Handel so and so, but I have no idea about Berlioz in opera!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Sabrina (from another opera fan who doesn't yet 'get' Wagner) 

I loved reading your opera journey - hope you enjoy our discussions on here.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Thank you, Annie! And thanks again for helping me!
I am so happy to discover such a nice opera forum!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> Yes, I know they are completely different. Only their mother tongue is the same.
> Again, I love Mozart. But Wagner frightened me a little bit. I do not resonate with that kind of spirit. I love his overtures/preludes, but his opera seemed oppressive for me. I'll try again, maybe with a different approach.
> I love Verdi, Handel so and so, but I have no idea about Berlioz in opera!


Berlioz only tried his hand at opera four times (one of them is sort of controversial - is it an oratorio? Is it an opera? In my opinion it's an opera, although Berlioz himself would disagree).

But the thing is: *all* four times he produced something sublime.

So Berlioz is 4 out of 4. He's 100%. While many major opera composers have many more operas to their names, not all of them are good. The fact that Berlioz got it right all four times is quite extraordinary, in my opinion. Even Mozart, Wagner, and Verdi had some duds. Berlioz was not a prolific opera composer, but he had no duds.

Les Troyens.
La Damnation de Faust.
Benvenuto Cellini.
Béatrice et Bénédict.

All four, spectacular operas.

Les Troyens is my favorite. I'm crazy about it. It's my second favorite opera of all times, after The Ring of the Nibelung (taken as a whole). It's such an epic arc, shockful of beautiful and pungent music, with fabulous character development (Berlioz wrote his own libretti).

La Damnation de Faust is an incredible masterpiece; tight, fast paced, precise, intense, with incredible tone painting and dramatic flair. There isn't a single note that is superfluous, and there isn't a single note that is missing. Wow, what a wild ride!

Benvenuto Cellini is fun! It is lively, full of flair and wit, with such a seductive main character! It's modernity is incredible.

Béatrice et Bénédict is Berlioz's proof that in spite of his other three bombastic, intense, and eventful operas, he can do delicate orchestration, vocal writing, and poetry just as well. It's sort of a chamber opera, elegant and concise.

So why isn't Berlioz widely recognized as an operatic genius? Because there are only four. And they're in French. And he got smothered by his rival Meyerbeer. And the Parisian public wasn't into his precise and delicate writing, and would rather go for Meyerbeer's crowd-pleasing mediocrity.

But then, what other opera composer got a score of 100%? 
Well, maybe Beethoven - but he composed only one.
Maybe Berg - but he composed only two.

At least Berlioz composed four. And they are all four extraordinary. One wonders what else we have missed.

When I engage in silly fantasies about time machines and the such, my dream is to go back in time, meet Berlioz (who was insecure and had low self esteem) and tell him: "Sir, you're one of the all time five best. Please, give us the gift of composing more operas. You just can't go wrong, anything that is operatic and you put your hands on, is exquisitely sublime. We the fans want more of this."


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> ... But the thing is: *all* four times he produced something sublime.


Not sure I agree with you Alma. Don't know either Benvenuto Cellini or Béatrice et Bénédict but I do like 'Damnation' but have to confess I'm still struggling with Troyens.


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## hutchscott (May 13, 2011)

Hi. My name is hutchscott and I just signed up today.

I have been involved with classical music since I was a 5 year old starting piano lessons. I was the only one of my classmates into classical music, until middle school and then there was orchestra class. In high school I was in the youth symphony and we did "Amahl and the Night Visitors" where I played in the pit. I took only one year of high school choir but it was essential to my later thought process. After college I got involved with a very good church choir and studied choral music. Now that I am, well, basically middle-aged, I finally felt mature enough to understand opera. The bulk of my opera education has been getting DVDs from the local library. I did finally see one of the Met Live in HD broadcasts. Unfortunately I have not yet gone to see a Seattle Opera production, the closest to where I live. Also, I am hoping to get a computer that will allow me to access the Met Opera Player on-line.

I am the only person my age that likes opera. I try to include others in my opera studies but there is fierce resistance.

My very best purchase was a one-volume guide to opera that I use. I started with bel canto but tried to work my way through opera history. My niece is Russian so I made a point of studying Russian opera. Secretly I have a crush on Anna Netrebko.

The only person in my life that likes opera is my high school French teacher that I've kept a correspondance with these years. I joined this opera forum to access a wider on-line community.

I am fond of Richard Strauss, but I am not yet comfortable with the magnitude of Richard Wagner. That would be a goal.

This gives you an idea of the path that led me to love opera as much as I do.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

hutchscott said:


> Hi. My name is hutchscott and I just signed up today.
> 
> I have been involved with classical music since I was a 5 year old starting piano lessons. I was the only one of my classmates into classical music, until middle school and then there was orchestra class. In high school I was in the youth symphony and we did "Amahl and the Night Visitors" where I played in the pit. I took only one year of high school choir but it was essential to my later thought process. After college I got involved with a very good church choir and studied choral music. Now that I am, well, basically middle-aged, I finally felt mature enough to understand opera. The bulk of my opera education has been getting DVDs from the local library. I did finally see one of the Met Live in HD broadcasts. Unfortunately I have not yet gone to see a Seattle Opera production, the closest to where I live. Also, I am hoping to get a computer that will allow me to access the Met Opera Player on-line.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum, hutchscott, I think you came to the right place.
And here is to a fellow Anna Netrebko La Bellissima fan.:cheers:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Not sure I agree with you Alma. Don't know either Benvenuto Cellini or Béatrice et Bénédict but I do like 'Damnation' but have to confess I'm still struggling with Troyens.


Don't worry, Annie. If by then you still don't like Les Troyens, in 2012 I'll have an opportunity to use the wet fish method in person, to set you straight.:devil:


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## Guest (May 13, 2011)

My opera journey seems so logical, to me. But I've presented it so many times now with no sort of success at all (success being responses like "yes, that seems logical" or "I tried this after reading your post, and it worked), that I have to wonder.

But what I'm wondering about shall remain a secret.

Anyway, this is how I got into opera, for what it's worth. I never liked opera when I was a kid, though I did see productions of Marriage of Figaro and Aida when I was young. And even hanging out with an opera nut in college and going to productions of many Wagner operas and some Tchaikovsky, I was never really hooked.

I did like Janacek's music, extremely so. And outside of the operas, there's not all that much. If you want to listen to more Janacek than _Sinfonietta_ and _Taras Bulba_ and a couple of string quartets and a handful of other delightful pieces, then you really are going to have to listen to some operas. Well, I was (am) a big Janacek nut, so I got some of his operas. Then some more. Then all of them.

I tried the same thing with Dvorak. Then Berlioz (who hardly wrote any duds of any kind). And Prokofiev and Shostakovich. Eventually, I could buy an opera by a person I'd never heard of before without any qualms at all. (My first Kutavicius was Lokys, for instance.)

I still recommend this strategy, even though it doesn't get any respect! Well, whatever. It worked for me. To a point. I still don't have any operas by Wagner or Puccini or Donizetti or Meyerbeer or Bellini or Mozart. It could happen.

In the meantime, I have dozens of operas by Rachmaninoff and Norgard and Berg and Ashley and Reimann and Zimmermann and Lachenmann and Smetana and Chin and Czernowin and so forth, not because I like opera per se, but just because I love music by these people, and they wrote operas, too.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

hutchscott said:


> Hi. My name is hutchscott and I just signed up today.
> 
> I have been involved with classical music since I was a 5 year old starting piano lessons. I was the only one of my classmates into classical music, until middle school and then there was orchestra class. In high school I was in the youth symphony and we did "Amahl and the Night Visitors" where I played in the pit. I took only one year of high school choir but it was essential to my later thought process. After college I got involved with a very good church choir and studied choral music. Now that I am, well, basically middle-aged, I finally felt mature enough to understand opera. The bulk of my opera education has been getting DVDs from the local library. I did finally see one of the Met Live in HD broadcasts. Unfortunately I have not yet gone to see a Seattle Opera production, the closest to where I live. Also, I am hoping to get a computer that will allow me to access the Met Opera Player on-line.
> 
> ...


Welcome, hutchscott!

If you love opera, this forum is definitely the place to be! We have all sorts of lively and interesting discussions, and as you can see from the various posts, quite a range in tastes. I joined a few months ago and quickly became addicted.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Les Troyens.
> La Damnation de Faust.
> Benvenuto Cellini.
> Béatrice et Bénédict.
> ...


Dear count, where do yo find these Berlioz operas? I know Les Troyenes is better represented in the CD/DVD release, among Berlioz operas, but the other three? They are rarely played...


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

sabrina said:


> Dear count, where do yo find these Berlioz operas? I know Les Troyenes is better represented in the CD/DVD release, among Berlioz operas, but the other three? They are rarely played...


Colin Davis took care of whole Berlioz heritage and thus you always can trust in him. There is nothing of his major works that he wouldn't record at least in decent way, it applies also to non-troyens operas: his Benvenuto Cellini recording includes famous tenor - Gedda and can be safely recommended, I think. Tra la la de profoundis. Same with the other two, though I must admit that I didn't hear B&B. I mean Béatrice et Bénédict, not Bold & Beautiful.



Almaviva said:


> Béatrice et Bénédict is Berlioz's proof that in spite of his other three bombastic, intense, and eventful operas, he can do delicate orchestration, vocal writing, and poetry just as well. It's sort of a chamber opera, elegant and concise.


Wat you saying. Les Troyens are extremely poetic and have delicate moments. There is absolutely no bombasticism - first rate, true and pure drama yes, but it never gets bombastic. And poetry, by the way, does not equal delicacy. It can (and should) be intense.


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I found Faust on Amazon, and B&B and Les Troyenes at the local library. No Cellini! Huray! I'll let you know how I found Berlioz operas.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> Dear count, where do yo find these Berlioz operas? I know Les Troyenes is better represented in the CD/DVD release, among Berlioz operas, but the other three? They are rarely played...


Like you said, Les Troyens has fine recordings both on CD and DVD/Blu-ray so not a problem there. Here is the one I recommend with spectacular images and good enough singing, although the singing in some of the CDs is even better:



I much prefer the above (it's available on DVD and blu-ray) but the Met/Domingos version is very good too:



On CD both recordings by Colin Davis are good:



For La Damnation de Faust, it's a problem. There is very good concert version on DVD, but the sole staged version on DVD is considered to be deficient. The best bet is to watch the new Metropolitan Opera version on MetPlayer (it's not out on DVD and may never be released since it's been a while and they've released other productions of other operas that were staged more recently, and have totally neglected to release this outstanding production staged by Lepage). You can either pay-per-view on MetPlayer ($5) or sign-up for one free week - they won't bill you if you cancel before the week is over. You can have access to MetPlayer by visiting the Metropolitan Opera website; click here: http://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/information/index.aspx

Anyway, if you want the concert version conducted by Solti, like I said it is very good:



Benvenuto Cellini is also a problem. There is only one version on DVD and Blu-ray, and it is highly controversial, with an update staging that includes three robots and a helicopter, no kidding. I love it, though. It's one of the few Regie stagings that I don't mind.



Béatrice et Bénédict has never been released on commercial/professional grade DVD. You do find pirate versions but due to respect for copyrights, we don't recommend or advertise those. You do find however two very good CD version:



All of the above are easily found for sale on Amazon.com

Enjoy! You're in for a treat! These are four spectacular operas with sublime music.

Edit: Also look at this, on CD:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> I found Faust on Amazon, and B&B and Les Troyenes at the local library. No Cellini! Huray! I'll let you know how I found Berlioz operas.


Our posts crossed each other. Beware of Faust, read carefully what I said before you commit (and make sure you get Berlioz's Faust, not Gounod's). It's Les Troyens (although the lady Trojans are super fine).

Les Troyens is a loooong opera, and I think it is best enjoyed on video media (DVD, Blu-ray) to keep your attention by including the visual/theatrical aspects - although it does contain gorgeous music all along so if your library only has the CDs, fine - but see if you can watch it, instead.

Yes, you can find Cellini on Amazon, on DVD, blu-ray, and CD. Look again. They're all listed above with the cover pictures for you.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Colin Davis took care of whole Berlioz heritage and thus you always can trust in him. There is nothing of his major works that he wouldn't record at least in decent way, it applies also to non-troyens operas: his Benvenuto Cellini recording includes famous tenor - Gedda and can be safely recommended, I think.


Agreed.



> Wat you saying. Les Troyens are extremely poetic and have delicate moments. There is absolutely no bombasticism - first rate, true and pure drama yes, but it never gets bombastic. And poetry, by the way, does not equal delicacy. It can (and should) be intense.


Sorry, fellow Berlioz fan. I misspoke. I meant majestic, not bombastic. I don't see any single note wrong in any of Berlioz's operas. My admiration for all four in all aspects - orchestration, chorus, vocal writing, libretto, dramatic force, poetry - is immense. And poetry in Les Troyens and La Damnation de Faust is first rate, and intense like you said. It is very delicate in B&B, though - but it is perfect all around. Berlioz like you said wrote no duds, both regarding his music and his libretti.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Beware of Faust, read carefully what I said before you commit (and make sure you get Berlioz's Faust, not Gounod's)


Damnation is great but I confess to liking Gounod's Faust as well.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

some guy said:


> My opera journey seems so logical, to me. But I've presented it so many times now with no sort of success at all (success being responses like "yes, that seems logical" or "I tried this after reading your post, and it worked), that I have to wonder.
> 
> But what I'm wondering about shall remain a secret.
> 
> ...


In my opinion there is nothing wrong with your method, some_guy. Janacek is fantastic, and as good an entry point as any. Of the five by him that I know, I love four and only one didn't really impress me as profoundly (Kát'a Kabanová - the other four I consider to be all four masterpieces: Jenufa, The Cunning Little Vixen, From the House of the Dead, and The Makropulos Case). What else do you recommend from him?


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

I found a well-produced English recording of _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ in Naxos and have been listening to it today. I find it's nice to have English-sung performances, especially for the first time I hear something; that way I don't have to stare at a libretto for 3 hours.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Ravellian said:


> I found a well-produced English recording of _Giulio Cesare in Egitto_ in Naxos and have been listening to it today. I find it's nice to have English-sung performances, especially for the first time I hear something; that way I don't have to stare at a libretto for 3 hours.


Please no! I hate opera in translation! It's a betrayal of the melodic line of the language!
I have a good example to demonstrate it. I've said it a few times so maybe you've seen it already, but if not, here it goes:
Think of the spectacular American opera Porgy and Bess, and its signature aria Summertime.
Imagine a French translation.
So in the original you have: Summmmeeeerrrrrttiiiiiiiiiiiimeeeeee...... Up, down, up. With all the swing, all the heat, and the explosive open sound of the i vowel, which the two previous syllables prepare you for, hint at it, build up momentum. When the composer was setting the libretto to music, he was thinking of the sounds and rhythms of this word, summertime.
In French you would have: Étééééééééééééééééé. Failure. That's not what the composer had in mind.
See what I mean?


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. When you hear an opera in your own language, you're hearing it as the Italians hear Italian opera, or as the French hear French opera. You can understand every word, and the most important part of the of the opera, the MUSIC (pitches, phrases, dynamics, etc), remains perfectly intact. 

And again, I'm only using it as a learning tool to make operas that are unfamiliar to me more approachable. Once I'm more familiar with the opera, I'll switch to the original language. C:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm with Ravellian on this, particularly in terms of using the English version as a learning tool. My first 2 or 3 seasons of opera attendance were all at ENO which does opera in English. It seemed more accessible (and less terrifying) than Covent Garden. Once I'd seen a few I moved on.


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## hutchscott (May 13, 2011)

Yikes. My hometown symphony conductor relies on English translations of operas. I don't like, but I'm sure some do.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Learning tool? Rather than listening to an opera in translation, one can read the libretto with side-by-side translation, study it, do some homework, and then listen to the opera sung in original language. This is a much better learning tool than changing the musicality of the words by introducing completely different words and phonemes that were not intended by the composer. Gee, folks, to see that I'm right on this one, just look at the case of operas that had a version in a different language supervised by the composer: in most cases, the composer makes changes to the vocal music in order to accomodate the other language, so you guys can't say that it doesn't matter and it is the same music. It just isn't. In these cases at least the composer was involved. But to get an opera written by a composer who is not alive anymore and just translate it into a different language is doing violence to the original work. No, no, and no. It is not cool. More accessible? Well, if people do their homework they'll make of anything, something accessible. You don't need to change the language to make something accessible.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm with Alma on this. I've only ever seen one opera which wasn't in its original language & hated it; never again if I can help it. It was Don Pasquale & it hasn't exactly got a complicated plot. And I would never buy one which wasn't original language.

The rewards of listening & reading the side-by-side libretto & learning the words which are actually sung are tremendous.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, I agree with you guys now, I got Nabucco out of the library and then realised it was in English, aaargh, couldn't get it back there fast enough.

BUT... when I was starting off, it seemed OK when I was watching live opera. I wouldn't have had the patience or motivation to use a libretto, and it eased me in. Funnily enough I only ever bought recordings in the original language.

Mind you, those were the days before surtitles.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Damnation is great but I confess to liking Gounod's Faust as well.


Gounod's Faust has its moments, but I was just warning the user who is relatively new to opera to avoid the confusion, since she wants to explore Berlioz's work. Probably overkill, I guess it would be pretty hard to mix them up and what I said was unnecessary.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I'm with Alma on this.


I see that finally my wet fish threats are working.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm also with Alma on operas sung in translation. As much as I love Wunderlich, and even though I speak German (after a fashion) but not Italian, there's something about hearing "La Donna e mobile" rendered as "O wie so trügerisch" that just doesn't quite cut it. This is also the reason I prefer live performances sung in the original language with surtitles rather than sung in English translation. If I want the translation, I can read the surtitles. If I want to ignore the surtitles (which I usually do), I also have that choice.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

There are some interesting and enjoyable curiosities though:


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

You all are so cute. I'm glad there are people who are so passionate about opera and classical music in general 

Alas, perhaps I'm just not willing to devote that much time to researching and concentrating on the music. I generally listen to music while doing other relatively mindless things like studying or surfing the web; it's hard for me to just do nothing except listen (unless it's Wagner)


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I travel by train quite a lot & love taking a couple of libretti with me & plugging myself in to my mp3 player. Stops 'bores' trying to talk to me as well. :devil:


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## Guest (May 14, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> In my opinion there is nothing wrong with your method, some_guy. Janacek is fantastic, and as good an entry point as any. Of the five by him that I know, I love four and only one didn't really impress me as profoundly (Kát'a Kabanová - the other four I consider to be all four masterpieces: Jenufa, The Cunning Little Vixen, From the House of the Dead, and The Makropulos Case). What else do you recommend from him?


Well, I never meant to suggest that Janacek is a good entry point, though I don't have any trouble with that idea. But my point was that I got into opera by wanting to hear more by a particularly favorite composer. If I wanted to hear more of X, and there was only opera, then perforce I would have to listen to some opera! The X, in my case, just happened to be Janacek.

I would recommend _Kat'a_ very highly, for one, by the way! And also _The Excursions of Mr. Broucek._ But of all of them (including the early and not very characteristic Sarka and The Beginning of a Romance), I probably listen to _Osud_ the most frequently.

Be sure to avoid Mackerras's version with the English translation! (Native speakers, by the way, don't hear every word, as Ravellian suggests. Give _Peter Grimes_ a listen some day. Do you understand everything that's said? A teacher of mine in Germany once said that she understood maybe 40% of all the words in any Wagner opera.) My favorite of _Osud_ is Jilek's, but Albrecht's is also fine. There's one of Jilek's on Amazon for just 14 USD.

(The other operas by Janacek are also fine, just by the way. But as Almaviva had already mentioned them, I didn't think I had to do anything but agree. I agree.)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

some guy said:


> Well, I never meant to suggest that Janacek is a good entry point, though I don't have any trouble with that idea. But my point was that I got into opera by wanting to hear more by a particularly favorite composer. If I wanted to hear more of X, and there was only opera, then perforce I would have to listen to some opera! The X, in my case, just happened to be Janacek.
> 
> I would recommend _Kat'a_ very highly, for one, by the way! And also _The Excursions of Mr. Broucek._ But of all of them (including the early and not very characteristic Sarka and The Beginning of a Romance), I probably listen to _Osud_ the most frequently.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I got your method of trying to listen to more of a composer you like and spilling out to opera. Good method, why not? It started by Janacek, good start, and it went on to other worthy examples.

My problem with Kat'a is more theatrical than musical. I think it all happens too fast, there is too much packed in not enough time. It's not that I didn't like it; I did, it's just that I didn't like is *as much* as the other four by him that I know, which all blew me away. I'll check out your other suggestions.

Yes, absolutely, certain operas in English are very hard to understand, operatic singing in general distorts the sounds of words and often one needs a libretto or sub/surtitles even in one's native language, which makes the whole thing of opera in translation even more inappropriate, in my opinion.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm not a fan of performing any opera with the language parts re-written/translated into another, other than maybe for educational and training purposes.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

MAuer said:


> I'm also with Alma on operas sung in translation. As much as I love Wunderlich, and even though I speak German (after a fashion) but not Italian, there's something about hearing "La Donna e mobile" rendered as "O wie so trügerisch" that just doesn't quite cut it. This is also the reason I prefer live performances sung in the original language with surtitles rather than sung in English translation. If I want the translation, I can read the surtitles. If I want to ignore the surtitles (which I usually do), I also have that choice.


The biggest abortion I've ever heard was the Commendatore scene from Don Giovanni in some other language, instead of "Don Giovanni! A cenar teco...", one of the best moments in all of music, this language apparently forced "Blah Blah Blah! Don Giovanni..." 

Edit: _French..._


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

Producing an opera in other language than the original is a blasphemy. I am happy most producers think like me. Although I think Italian is best fitted for opera, even among Latin languages, I am sure composers who used other languages, they specially designed the phrasing, for the musicality of their piece of music. I love Die Zauberflote, as it is, in German. My basic level in German helps me a little bit. I recognize, that for languages other than Italian or French, I 'd rather have the opera on a DVD with subtitles. 
Thinking about languages, I don't know any opera in Spanish.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sabrina said:


> Thinking about languages, I don't know any opera in Spanish.


There aren't many operas in Spanish. I believe that the most famous ones are _La Vida Breve_ and _El Retable de Maese Pedro_ (which is a puppet-opera, mind you), both by Manuel de Falla. Other Spanish operas are few and obscure (more on them below). However, Spain has a rich tradition in operettas (hundreds of them), which in their specific subgenre are called Zarzuelas. The problem is, they aren't easy to find outside of Spain. This one, _Luisa Fernanda_, is probably the one that has the best version, available on both DVD and blu-ray, and is pretty good in my opinion:










There is another one on DVD, _El dúo de la Africana _but it isn't very good. There are a number of recitals and CDs of songs from Zarzuelas, with Plácido Domingo and Elina Garanca having recorded many Zarzuela tracks. The famous late soprano Victoria de los Ángeles was also responsible for introducing non-Spaniards to Zarzuelas, and has recorded them. I haven't explored Zarzuelas on CD but I'm sure they must be easier to find on CD than on DVD. I'd assume that in Spain more Zarzuelas can be found on DVD.

These are the most important composers of Zarzuelas: Francisco Asenjo Barbieri, Ruperto Chapí, Federico Chueca, Tomás Bretón, Pablo Sorozábal, and Federico Moreno Torroba.

Back to true opera, other than the two well-known Spanish operas by de Falla that I've mentioned above, a few other more or less obscure attempts exist: _Atlántida _by the same de Falla, _Goyescas _by Granado, _La Dolores _by Bretón, and there are a couple of modern ones, Ginastera's _Bomarzo,_ and the contemporary _Florencia en el Amazonas _by Catán.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> There aren't many operas in Spanish.












Not very good - Carreras should never have done it.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

How much for the journey, Ms. Loba-loba?


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

My Dad went to R.A.M and is a classical music phonetic! so it's safe to say his influence made classical music a massive part of my life, even my childhood. But I was never really 'into' classical music until I got to the age of about 12/13. The opera obsession didn't start until I was around 15 and I had to start light, there where pieces which where too heavy for me at that age but my ear and mind got used to them!

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? *

Having only known about the joys of Opera for about 3 years I have only seen two live performances. One was Carmen at The Royal Opera House, and the other was La Traviata at the Prague State Opera. Although these where both amazing, the thing that has fueled my exploration the most is the HD broadcasts, and other DVDs I have purchased. I have the Sky Arts Channels and they broadcast at least 2 recorded operas a week - usually from the met. This introduces me to a lot of new music, and although I had listened to hundreds of Operas, actually seeing them made a difference.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

Like most young listeners, I was told that Bizet's Carmen was the best thing to start on - and it really was. I was familiar with a lot of the tunes and the music was beautiful. After that I met Verdi, and then I fell in love.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

Definitely. I have gone from Verdi, to Mozart to Bel Canto and back again and found that Bel Canto Opera is my favorite right now. But I have a lot of exploring left to do!

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? *

I don't have anyone who is quite as obsessed as I am, my family try - and my Dad is probably the one who likes it the most (but he still prefers classical music)

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

I haven't explored Wagner yet and I have to say that I have pre-existing ideas about his music - that it is over dramatized and heavy, but I should really listen to it before making assumptions so that is a venture I should take in the future

*And, if you've liked opera for some years: Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*

Listen to Verdi, Puccini and Bizet first and if you don't like them then move onto Mozart and Rossini. A good singer to start listening to is Anna Netrebko as she appeals to the younger audience and the first-timer (Good looking, great actress and gorgeous vocal tone) A good first time opera would be either La Traviata (a whole lot of drama, gorgeous music and recognizable tunes) Carmen (a lot of recognizable tunes but possibly too long for a first timer) or Hansel and Gretel (nice and short and perfect for a young audience)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, Liss. 
Only moderators and administrators can delete posts and threads, but I did delete your duplicate post for you.
I hope you enjoy it here.


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Thankyou!


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Welcome to the forum, Liss.
> Only moderators and administrators can delete posts and threads, but I did delete your duplicate post for you.
> I hope you enjoy it here.


She had such nice things to say about La Bellissima, and you deleted her duplicate post???


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Nothing about Netrebko was deleted - no worries!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

- she's not pretty enough to erase memory about such terrible deed as recording this crap

Let's be honest...

SHE'S A WITCH

A WITCH

BURN HER

CONFESS


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Liss.

I love your opera journey & especially your statement "After that I met Verdi, and then I fell in love". I adore everything he's ever written, not just because his music touches me so deeply but for historical, political & social reasons as well.

I'm not deaf to his shortcomings & I know that La Traviata is a better opera than say, La battaglia di Legnano, but I love Battaglia just as much.

[this is the point where most members start yawning & say "oh no she's going on about her trip to Italy again" & search for more interesting discussions ]

Last year I went to Milan (actually to see the Italian Grand Prix but that's another story) & I visited Verdi's crypt at his home for retired musicians. A beautiful & peaceful place.

I did other opera-related stuff as well but I won't bore you to death on your first day.


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Oh that sounds amazing! 

Did you ever watch Antonio Pappano's TV series called 'Opera Italia' which was on BBC4? He tours Italy talking about all aspects of Italian opera and I'm pretty sure there was an entire programme about Verdi. 
I was really into Verdi before but finding out about his life made everything even more intriguing! 
The first time I watched La Traviata (The Fleming ROH HD recording) I cried and cried, my heart felt like it was going to burst!
Thats why I love him so much, his music breaks my heart!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Liss said:


> Oh that sounds amazing!
> 
> Did you ever watch Antonio Pappano's TV series called 'Opera Italia' which was on BBC4? He tours Italy talking about all aspects of Italian opera and I'm pretty sure there was an entire programme about Verdi.


Yes I did. I loved the programmes & Pappano's style - he is such a good communicator.



Liss said:


> I was really into Verdi before but finding out about his life made everything even more intriguing!


If you haven't already got it I can recommend this












Liss said:


> The first time I watched La Traviata (The Fleming ROH HD recording) I cried and cried, my heart felt like it was going to burst!
> That's why I love him so much, his music breaks my heart!


I know exactly what you mean!!


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Thanks for the recommendation, looks like something I might just have to buy!


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Aramis, I didn't know that video existed! Anna, what did you do? Oh my... haha


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

On the other hand you gotta admire a country which uses opera to sell mineral water. Haha think of that happening here in New Zealand.....


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

MAuer said:


> She had such nice things to say about La Bellissima, and you deleted her duplicate post???


Oh, I'd never act against a fellow La Bellissima fan! They get a free pass with me regardless of any bad behaviors, LOL. But she asked for the deletion, was trying to do it herself, I just helped.

On the other hand, I'm always willing to ban Draculette's fans.

Hmmm... big problem. What if she loves both Anna and Draculette??? The worst of it, I think she does! I believe I saw another post of her talking about Draculette.

Darn... what to do???


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> - she's not pretty enough to erase memory about such terrible deed as recording this crap
> 
> Let's be honest...
> 
> ...


LOL, I love it! Anna doing a commercial! And looking gorgeous!

[Hmm... Alma browses the Terms of Service furiously to see if there is anything to forbid users from calling Anna Netrebko La Bellissima a witch... can't find anything... thinks of talking to Frederik about it - we need this rule!!!]


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Liss said:


> Oh that sounds amazing!
> 
> Did you ever watch Antonio Pappano's TV series called 'Opera Italia' which was on BBC4? He tours Italy talking about all aspects of Italian opera and I'm pretty sure there was an entire programme about Verdi.
> I was really into Verdi before but finding out about his life made everything even more intriguing!
> ...


Yep, Pappano's series is terrific. I watched it (although it's never been shown in America) thanks to an even more terrific friend who sent me a copy.

I also feel very touched by Verdi's biography. Such a nice man, able to overcome adversity, generous with less fortunate people...


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## Liss (May 13, 2011)

Almaviva, I must admit that when I first started listening to Opera Angela Gheorghiu was one of my favourites... I still think she has a beautiful voice but her excessive cancellations tend to put me off now, I wouldn't turn down a chance to see her on stage, though. 

If I say something nice about Netrebko will you let me off?  haha


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Hmm... Alma browses the Terms of Service furiously to see if there is anything to forbid users from calling Anna Netrebko La Bellissima a witch..


You mean La Stregaissima?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> You mean La Stregaissima?


Hey, look at what I found in our Terms of Service:

"The most damaging and outrageous infraction of them all is calling Anna Netrebko La Bellissima a witch, even if done in Italian. The user who gets caught with such distasteful behavior earns an immediate temporary ban for 1,000 years. Because such ban is just temporary, it is fitting to add some extra punishments to it. Talk Classical, its owners and staffers reserve themselves the right to break into the user's home and steal his/her goldfish. Then they'll cut the users' head off and next they'll whip him/her silly at least 100 times. Oh wait, people whose heads have been cut off don't experience further pain, so never mind, make it the other way around, the whipping should come first and then the head comes off. Then the user's home will be covered with toilet paper so that the public is warned of the presence of such nasty person in the neighborhood. Oh well, maybe this step won't be necessary since the user will be dead by then, but we may as well do it just to stress the point."

I'll give you a pass on this one without enforcing this rule just because I like you, Aramis, but tread carefully, mate, tread very carefully!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Liss said:


> Almaviva, I must admit that when I first started listening to Opera Angela Gheorghiu was one of my favourites... I still think she has a beautiful voice but her excessive cancellations tend to put me off now, I wouldn't turn down a chance to see her on stage, though.
> 
> If I say something nice about Netrebko will you let me off?  haha


Well if you manage to post a picture of Anna just as revealing as the one Natalie has posted in the Lovely Soprano thread then I may forgive you.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I could understand stealing golfish, cutting off one's head and all this stuff if made in name of some grand person defending of which is matter of honor, for example Napoleon Bonaparte, but some lady who just happens to look good with considerable support of large and expensive makeup and can sing a little bit? Come on, Jerry.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> I could understand stealing golfish, cutting off one's head and all this stuff if made in name of some grand person defending of which is matter of honor, for example Napoleon Bonaparte, but some lady who just happens to look good with considerable support of large and expensive makeup and can sing a little bit? Come on, Jerry.


Well, sure, I'd agree with you if that was all that Anna had going for her, but she's also got great mammary glands, which makes her much more enticing than Napoleon Bonaparte.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Enticing for newborn babies, I suppose.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> LOL, I love it! Anna doing a commercial! And looking gorgeous!
> 
> [Hmm... Alma browses the Terms of Service furiously to see if there is anything to forbid users from calling Anna Netrebko La Bellissima a witch... can't find anything... thinks of talking to Frederik about it - we need this rule!!!]


In view of that photo Natalie posted, I'm assuming you mean Frederick's of Hollywood??


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


I am relatively new to both classical music and opera. I have always been a music fan, but it is as if someone just flicked a switch inside my head and I can't get enough. When I was first getting into classical, I never thought I would like opera. It seemed totally ridiculous, but then I started reading more and more into classical music in general and the greats like Wagner, Verdi, Puccini, Donizetti consistently were getting hight praise. Then i watched a series of online music lectures from Yale and learned a bit about opera in the process. It only seemed logical to view the human voice as an instrument and to let the best at composing for that instrument have a chance. I bought a CD of Verdi choruses in a charity shop and liked it, so bought Il Trovatore and listened to it 7 times in one weekend. I studied languages for a bit at school, so looking at the libretto and translations as I listened was fun. Opera is hard work to appreciate, but I like classical music, I like languages and I like storytelling.



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


I am still an opera virgin! I have only just started, but I recently branched out into buying my first opera DVD and it really makes a huge difference to have the visual element.


> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


Il Trovatore has an awful plot, I think it can be admitted. I prefer Verdi's music more, but the first opera I really liked the idea of was Lucia di Lammamoor. I am a big fan of bleak storylines and that has it in buckets. I will also recieve a copy of the Ring cycle in the next few days. I expect I will not be seen for a while. I don't think there is any going back after Der Ring.



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


I have an insatiable apetite at the moment. Anything goes, but i am attempting to get a good grounding with all the established greats first.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


My love of opera is my dirty secret. My girlfriend doesnt know or, if she does, not the full extent. I try to talk about classical music with a friend of mine and mentioned the Ring cycle. I dont think he is ready for classical and opera is a step too far. I rely on the gurus here for advice!



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


Just about everything! I am familiar with opera from the Romantic era, but nothing much outside that. I have listened to some Stravinsky, but it was Neoclassical. I have yet to get into Handel, Monteverdi and Strauss, but am enjoying the prospect of all three.  Adams and Berg also interest me, but i will get there eventually. There is nothing I dont wish to explore.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

:clap: What a brilliant first post!!

Welcome to the forum crmoorhead, really looking forward to reading more about your 'dirty secret' 

If you haven't already got this DVD, I can recommend it.










If a forum member called 'Almaviva' insists it's rubbish & only worthy of the trash can, just ignore him will you?


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol, it is very high up on my Amazon wishlist! I have been doing a lot of research (for which this forum has been very useful) and have a classical wishlist of 128 items, an opera on cd wishlist of 45 items and an opera on dvd wishlist of 17 items. I envision this lasting several years worth of purchasing! The one opera I have on dvd is Solti's 1994 La Traviata. Not the top recommendation here, but I enjoyed it and it was a big change from just listening to them on cd with the libretto. The 'film version' of La traviata starring Placido Domingo seems interesting. I watched the gypsies/matadors choruses on YouTube and it looked great. The top recommendation doesnt seem to be available on amazon.co.uk except as a region 1 import.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

@crmoorhead, just like Annie (sospiro) I have immensely enjoyed your first post. Welcome to the forum! I'm sure you'll be a formidable and enjoyable participant, with such enthusiasm! I'm absolutely thrilled to have you here.

As for that dreadful version of Il Trovatore that Annie endorses, please, please, don't go there. Not even close! It will destroy your budding love for opera, forever and ever. I have literally trashed it (no kidding, I really did take it physically and shoved it into my garbage can, first time ever I did such a thing).

Annie will say otherwise, but I'm planning to set her straight when I finally get to meet her in person in 2012 - we've been planning a trip to London to watch Les Troyens together. 

On that occasion, Annie will get a good dose of wet fish on the head, for daring to love such a lowly version of Il Trovatore. Of course, I'll only do it after she gives me my Les Troyens tickets, I'm no fool.

You know, I love Annie. She is great, she is fun, she is smart and cultured. But she has this weird, odd, bizarre love for this DVD, and acting as her good penpal friend that I am, I'll make sure that I take her best interest into consideration by using wet fish to remove this silly idea from her head. One day she'll see the light and thank me.

Meanwhile, do make sure that you watch lots of DVDs with Anna Netrebko La Bellissima. No need to be watching this dreadful Dmitri, much less Jose Cura.

Regards,

Alma


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Nat to the rescue of Annie and that great Trovatore DVD.










Take no notice of Alma, he's soft in the head due to the deletorious effects of rotting fish fumes.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)




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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


>


Alma - you've just killed Nat (aka my white knight)


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> Alma - you've just killed Nat (aka my white knight)


No, it's fine Annie, he just THINKS he did. The wet fish just made the armour a trifle rusty. Told you he was gaga.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> No, it's fine Annie, he just THINKS he did. The wet fish just made the armour a trifle rusty. Told you he was gaga.


Well, at least, I got you to be a little hoarse, given the location of the injury.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Didn't figure you for a GoT fan Alma! Have you read the books? Be nice here if someone shared my frustration at GRRM's rather leisurely approach to writing.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


Before my 18th birthday I didn't know, nor care. My first encounter with classical music was Mahler's 1st, the opening strings. Soon afterwards I heard Fischer Dieskau in Orfeo ed Euridice.



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


Not important, since my living place then was not that close to Amsterdam. Later on I was many times in the operahouses of Prague, but I find all those running surtitles, the hustle & bustle not so good for my concentration. Nowadays we live on an island, where the last ferry comes back at 21.30 pm.



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice. The composer who introduced me to the genre was Kurt Weill (Rise and Fall of the City Mahagonny)



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


From Gluck I got to Wagner; from Wagner I got to Mussorgsky; from Mussorgsky I got to Prokofiev. Surprising for me was the way how John Eliot Gardiner opened up the frontgate of Opera to me: Monteverdi's Orfeo. Now I enter opera from the frontdoor, the backdoor etc.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


My wife likes Dmitri Hvorostovsky, when he sings Russian folksongs.



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


Yes, yes and no. I guess I'm a bit orientated towards a lyrical style (Once you have heard the call of Orfeo [Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau] in hell: "Euridice!", it works like the Sirens singing to Odysseus; you are attracted to plunge into it deeper and deeper).



> And, if you've liked opera for some years:
> 
> Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?


Beware, in opera the Sirens do sing!


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol I am totally unaware of many names in opera, but after doing a search I will agree that she is La Bellisima. I haven't heard her sing, however, but that is but a minor consideration  I do notice that she is in the version of La Traviata that is most recommended here. I will try to obtain it or obtain a way of playing region 1 DVDs. Her version of La Boheme also seems very highly rated. Thanks to all for the welcome. I will try to catch up on my listening as fast as I can.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

crmoorhead said:


> Lol I am totally unaware of many names in opera, but after doing a search I will agree that she is La Bellisima. I haven't heard her sing, however, but that is but a minor consideration  I do notice that she is in the version of La Traviata that is most recommended here. I will try to obtain it or obtain a way of playing region 1 DVDs. Her version of La Boheme also seems very highly rated. Thanks to all for the welcome. I will try to catch up on my listening as fast as I can.


Anna's La Traviata is spectacular, but beware of the fact that she needs to do so much physical stuff, her breath control isn't at her best. Anna sings more beautifully than she did in that Traviata (see for example her I Puritani, or her Lucia di Lammermoor) but she does look great in that DVD. Another one in which she is the ultimate eye candy is her Manon. She does spectacular acting in her La Bohème, and is very funny in Don Pasquale and L'Elisir d'Amore. Anna is a fabulous opera artist.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Didn't figure you for a GoT fan Alma! Have you read the books? Be nice here if someone shared my frustration at GRRM's rather leisurely approach to writing.


rgz, I've been following GoT every Sunday and love it, and I've just received my boxset with the 4 books, but haven't started reading them yet. Apparently the 5th book is about to be released.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Ok I give up. What is GoT?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Game of Thrones. It's a fantasy/medieval fictional book series, now a TV series from HBO. The scene above with the knight bleeding all over the place is from it.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Ok I give up. What is GoT?


To quote the author, it's "fantasy for people who don't like fantasy". Probably the best fiction series in the last several decades, and it is great for what it does and how it does it; after Lord of the Rings was written in the 60s, for the next 4 decades every fantasy series followed the same outline:

- humble peasant is tasked with taking on the big bad
- big bad wants to rule the world. Why? Cause he's evil.
- humble peasant meets up with an unlikely band of heroes and, aided by a mysterious mentor, goes about his task.
- elves, dwarves, and wacky species a-plenty, and liberal amounts of magic
- although there is much danger, there's literally zero chance of anyone other than a 3rd tier character dying

GoT (actually A Song of Ice and Fire in book form, asoiaf for short) completely undermines each and every one of those cliches. There's no super good or super bad guy, it's just different families, each with their very real agendas, politicking and warring. Hardly any magic, no elves, and best of all (in my opinion) no character is "protected" by the author. Your favorite character will die. And then your new favorite character will die. And then your new favorite character will die. That's ok though, cause there's tons of great characters.

Interestingly, it's inspired by the War of the Roses and there are many parallels between that historical event and the events in the book.

In short, if you liked the political intrigue of something like Shogun, you'd definitely like GoT, in either tv or book format.

Alma -- oh man, well since the first season of the tv show is just about over, wait to read the books until after it ends. Wish I could be a bug on the wall of your living room over the remaining episodes so I could see your reaction; the last 20% of the book/season is just epic.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

OK, that's interesting. I like LOTR a lot (although as you say too many imitators now) so maybe this is not for me.

Also I don't know how you guys have time for TV. By the time I've got everyone into bed and out of my hair so that I can have my evening opera DVD fix there's no time left. As for reading, I've pretty much given up on fiction, it seems less satisfying than it used to.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I was on a big non-fiction kick for awhile and have just recently gotten back into fiction (largely thanks to my kindle and project gutenberg). Just finished Dostoevsky's "The Idiot" and Flaubert's "Madame Bovary", great stuff ... although I'm starting to get frustrated at how annoying life must have been back then, especially dating-wise.

As for TV, GoT and Community are the only shows I watch which makes for only 90 minutes of TV per week. Natalie Dessay misses me for those 90 minutes but she'll survive 

And I love LoTR as well, but imo GoT at least equals it, if not surpasses it. And you can trust me, since I have excellent taste in all things


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Nat, GoT is actually pretty, pretty good, like rgz said. I do like it more than LoTR. It's a lot more realistic in terms of real life intrigue, some sex (yes, boobs!), shades of grey, excellent character development. How do I have time for it: I record it on DVR and watch it (50' per week) when I'm tired of opera.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Right, I capitulate, I've ordered the first book from the library. It's obviously popular, I'm n.92 in the queue.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> How do I have time for it: I record it on DVR and watch it (50' per week) when I'm tired of opera.


Whaddyamean, tired of opera!! I am deeply shocked and disappointed. This is not some dilettante's playground, y'know, this is a serious forum. Those DVD reviews don't write themselves. Back to the grindstone, my boy, crank up the Blu-Ray player and don't let yourself be sidetracked by frivolity.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> ... and don't let yourself be sidetracked by frivolity.




You sound like a teacher ..... better not say how much time I spend on other stuff.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> You sound like a teacher ..... better not say how much time I spend on other stuff.


Don't forget I AM a teacher.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whaddyamean, tired of opera!! I am deeply shocked and disappointed. This is not some dilettante's playground, y'know, this is a serious forum. Those DVD reviews don't write themselves. Back to the grindstone, my boy, crank up the Blu-Ray player and don't let yourself be sidetracked by frivolity.


Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry ma'am. I swear I won't do it again, ma'am.
[Darn. No more GoT for me. Oh wait, maybe I can still watch it, but will be very careful to never mention it here]


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## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

Hello, everyone! Looks like I've found an opportune time/place for my first post... I'll include my introduction in this handy quiz. It will be long, but hopefully my longest!

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

I would say until the turning point, I wasn't interested at all in opera. I had a life-long interest in classical music sparked by my Dad's collection of supermarket "Greatest Classical Hits" LPs, along with taking piano lessons aged 8 through high school and singing in church choir (but we did no classical music). My only exposure to opera was the "tenors" they always seemed to feature on Lawrence Welk and Ed Sullivan and I absolutely could NOT stand that sound. Loved musicals, though, and there were a lot of musicals about in those days.

So I always loved classical music, but the majority of my music listening in college switched to the terrific popular music of the 60s.

I lived in Florida and at that time I had little to no exposure to live classical performances of any kind apart from school choruses and church. Then I went to Florida State Univ (which had an excellent music department and great program of visiting artists) and got to see live performances for the first time, but at that time I was more impressed with live theater (a performance of _The Hostage_ by Brendan Behan still sticks in my mind decades later).

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

I worked London in the 1970s (long story and much luck) and one evening was babysitting for a friend. The children were asleep and I turned on the TV (only 3 channels back then) to see, on a 12-inch black-and-white screen, a duet from _Der Fliegende Holländer_. I was dumbstruck, watched the rest of it and went the next day to get tickets (it was still playing). From the moment the orchestra started warming up (wow, real players!!) the magic and excitement never left me. (well, except for that time when I nodded off in _Don Giovanni_ at the ROH but it was a long day! and restricted view! and I just leaned my head down for a minute!).

This led to my getting season tickets to the English National Opera and the Royal Opera House in the mid-1970s. Just think: back in those days, working for a nonprofit and making really nothing in pay, I could still afford SEATS, although very high up, for a season of opera. Gone are those days. I was chiefly a Wagner fan and to my very great good fortune both houses were doing complete Ring cycles, the ENO in English and the ROH. I bought the LP recording of the ENO "Valkyrie" which was my favorite, and spent hours listening to Acts II and III because, ya know not so crazy about the tenors but LOVED Wotan. More on that later.

I saw a wide variety of operas (and at the time it didn't bother me when they were in English, because I quickly realized you couldn't understand them anyway!) and was sometimes surprised by things I didn't expect to like (Katya Kabanova, sorry about the sp) and sometimes surprised by things I hoped to like and thought were just ridiculous (_The Bassarids_ at ENO) and _The Ice Break_, premiere at the ROH.)

I also saw a (very well-reviewed) semi-staged student production of Monteverdi's _Orfeo_ that absolutely blew me away because I didn't really expect to enjoy it.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*

Live performance was the spark, and apart from my Valkyrie recording, I was only interested in live performances.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

The Ring Cycle, Wagner.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

Well the surprising thing would be that after I moved away from London, living in the US for a short time and then in the Austrian alps (another crazy story) my interest in opera completely vanished. I then moved to Munich (working for the Univ of Maryland/US military) and because one of my American colleagues' husband was getting small roles at the Bavarian State Opera, I did manage to see some opera there.

A final move back to the US and North Carolina pretty much was a death blow to my interest in opera (although to be fair there are several local opera companies). Occasionally I would listen to a Met broadcast on Saturdays but never a complete opera.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?*

I have a few friends from the choral group I sing with, whom I can sometimes persuade to attend Met in HD broadcasts.

Well, you may be wondering, how did I get back into opera? I have two words for you: Jonas Kaufmann.

When I heard the Met would be broadcasting their new Ring cycle in HD, I figured I had to give it a try. Plus I knew of Bryn Terfel and was looking forward to hearing someone different as Wotan. I enjoyed _Das Rheingold_ and immediately got tickets for _Die Walküre_ (with absolutely no idea who any of the cast, apart from Terfel, were. I'd been out of the "operafan" loop for decades).

The moment the double basses started up in W, I am not kidding the hair stood up on the back of my neck and I felt like I was in a time machine or something! About 5 minutes into the first act: wait, what? is this guy a tenor? I LOOOOOOOOOVE his voice! Plus, Siegmund & Sieglinde were actually acting and moving around the stage (I was very much used to the 'stand and shout' type of production). So instead of wishing I could fast forward through the whole formerly-boring-to-me Act 1, I was already thinking oh nooooooooooo....this is not going to end well, guys.

I became a born-again opera lover in that moment! And of course, at home I first booked my ticket for the encore and second set my google-fu in place, who IS this guy?

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

Well I now have 3 lieder CDs, thanks to you-know-who (I used to think lieder were boring, so shoot me) and of course the aria CDs and foresee a DVD introduction to many operas I've never seen before like _Lohengrin_ (I find the maligned Eurotrash productions intriguing rather than off-putting), _Parsifal_, _Werther_, _Faust_, etc.

*And, if you've liked opera for some years:
Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?
*

I have persuaded several of my musical friends who like opera but not necessarily Wagner to attend the W encore with me. I am hoping that JK will work his magic on them as well. Otherwise I would say, be open to new sounds and different kinds of opera. As for advice to myself, I am going to try to support the local opera companies and be open to new sounds and different kinds of opera!

And a tip o' the hat to you :tiphat: if you have read this far!


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi, FragendeFrau! Welcome to TC!

The Jonas Kaufmann Lohengrin is totally amazing! I love it to bits. I sat outside the Bayerischer Staatsoper at the premiere performance of it and was completely blown away.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Welcome to the forum FragendeFrau - fascinating first post & you will fit right in! Jonas has lots of fans on here.

I think it was forum member MAuer who gave him the nickname 'El Guapo' which we think he might hate but it suits him so well.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

@Fragende Frau:
If we've read this far? Of course we did! It's a very interesting first post! Welcome to the forum.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

FragendeFrau said:


> This led to my getting season tickets to the English National Opera and the Royal Opera House in the mid-1970s. Just think: back in those days, working for a nonprofit and making really nothing in pay, I could still afford SEATS, although very high up, for a season of opera. Gone are those days. I was chiefly a Wagner fan and to my very great good fortune both houses were doing complete Ring cycles, the ENO in English and the ROH. I bought the LP recording of the ENO "Valkyrie" which was my favorite, and spent hours listening to Acts II and III because, ya know not so crazy about the tenors but LOVED Wotan.


At very nearly the same time as you were doing this, I was discovering Wagner too. Rita Hunter and Alberto Remedios had recently put out a cheap recording of _Gotterdammerung_ highlights (with Mackerras)*, and it was a revelatory first exposure to the _Ring_. We played the grooves flat on that LP. We had no money, and lived far from London, but we scraped together enough to buy tickets for the ENO _Gotterdammerung_ at Manchester in the late 70s, when they took the _Ring_ on tour. It was a hot, humid summer night, and the air in the theatre was stiflingly uncomfortable, but Rita and Alberto between them blew my head off. That performance remains not only my most memorable Wagner 'event', but also the most overwhelming opera experience I've ever had. We weren't alone. The applause went on and on and on at the end - I've never witnessed such an audience response since.

* I just found the Gramophone review of the Hunter/Remedios selections disc here. It still stands today as a superb 'highlights' selection, and RH is still my favourite Brunnhilde, many _Ring_ cycles later.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Welcome to the forum FragendeFrau. Your live opera experience mirrors mine, up in the gods at ENO and Covent Garden, although my experiences were in the early 80s. Not all of it was park and bark - (although at the time I loved Domingo because he seemed like a great actor compared with some of the others) and there was even the odd regie production - Mazeppa and Barber of Seville at ENO.

I'm a great fan of Jonas' too - I turned the radio on the other day and nearly crashed because there he was, right in the middle of Walkure, and he sounded SOOO beautiful.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Welcome! I am beginning to enjoy this forum. Wish I knew some people as learned as you folks to mentor me in real life! Loved your intro, FragendeFrau! I am hopefully getting a bargain version of Solti's Ring in the post in the next few days.  I have not listened to any Wagner so far (not counting a documentary with Stephen Fry) because I am saving myself for when I have time to take the deep plunge.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

crmoorhead said:


> I am hopefully getting a bargain version of Solti's Ring in the post in the next few days.


The arguments will always rage about which of the recorded _Ring_s is 'the best', but the _uniqueness_ of the Solti isn't in doubt. (Perhaps one should say rather, the uniqueness of the _Culshaw production_ of the Solti recording.) My first recorded _Ring_ was the Bohm/Bayreuth version, which had just appeared when we were seeking to buy one, hampered by the disadvantage of not having any money. The price of the Solti put it out of reach, but the Bohm was just about affordable if we didn't eat for a month or two, so we settled for that; and very fine it was (and is) too.

But the Solti always represented for me a supreme standard for recorded _Ring_s. I'd heard large chunks of it played on a friend's state of the art hifi system, in a special listening room he'd designed, with a domed ceiling, and with electrostatic speakers mounted on a stage behind gauze curtains. (He projected moving images of clouds, water, fire etc onto the gauze as the music was playing.) I discovered then what an almost_ tangible_ sound stage the Solti recording was capable of producing, as if the characters were somehow projected into the room, so the listener became a silent participant in the drama, rather than a mere spectator.

When I finally bought a Solti set (quite recently), I was in no way disappointed. My memory hadn't fooled me. It really does project that quality of startling dramatic presence, and I wish you much joy in your bargain purchase, when it arrives.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Elgarian said:


> The arguments will always rage about which of the recorded _Ring_s is 'the best', but the _uniqueness_ of the Solti isn't in doubt. (Perhaps one should say rather, the uniqueness of the _Culshaw production_ of the Solti recording.) My first recorded _Ring_ was the Bohm/Bayreuth version, which had just appeared when we were seeking to buy one, hampered by the disadvantage of not having any money. The price of the Solti put it out of reach, but the Bohm was just about affordable if we didn't eat for a month or two, so we settled for that; and very fine it was (and is) too.
> 
> But the Solti always represented for me a supreme standard for recorded _Ring_s. I'd heard large chunks of it played on a friend's state of the art hifi system, in a special listening room he'd designed, with a domed ceiling, and with electrostatic speakers mounted on a stage behind gauze curtains. (He projected moving images of clouds, water, fire etc onto the gauze as the music was playing.) I discovered then what an almost_ tangible_ sound stage the Solti recording was capable of producing, as if the characters were somehow projected into the room, so the listener became a silent participant in the drama, rather than a mere spectator.
> 
> When I finally bought a Solti set (quite recently), I was in no way disappointed. My memory hadn't fooled me. It really does project that quality of startling dramatic presence, and I wish you much joy in your bargain purchase, when it arrives.


When I came in the early eighties in the Amsterdam library the choice was between Solti and Karajan: the Solti LPs were so scratched and dirtied, that I settled for the newer Karajan LP-boxes. I was and am still blown away by the orchestral perfection of the Berliner Philharmonie. All those _Vorspiele_ & _Zwischenspiele_ with all the metalclammer from the trolls have got inbetween my ears so much, that I experienced some disappointment with the otherwise superior (singing) Solti recording. When Hagen and his men start their call for battle in the _Götterdämmerung_, I cannot help but feel the pagan boiling of the blood with Karajan. Solti remains civilised....


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

sospiro said:


> Welcome to the forum FragendeFrau - fascinating first post & you will fit right in! Jonas has lots of fans on here.
> 
> I think it was forum member MAuer who gave him the nickname 'El Guapo' which we think he might hate but it suits him so well.


Oh, boy, another El Guapo fan!! Actually, another forum member gave him that very suitable designation after I'd referred to him as His Kaufmann-ness. But by any name, the guy is fantastic! (And how lucky for you to live in London and Munich! I'm envious!)


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

MAuer said:


> Oh, boy, another El Guapo fan!! Actually, *another forum member *gave him that very suitable designation after I'd referred to him as His Kaufmann-ness. But by any name, the guy is fantastic! (And how lucky for you to live in London and Munich! I'm envious!)


Yup, that was me. I'm so shallow!

Seriously, it's his voice I like. His killer looks are just the cherry on top.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yup, that was me. I'm so shallow!
> 
> Seriously, it's his voice I like. His killer looks are just the cherry on top.


Ooops, sorry Nat


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yup, that was me. I'm so shallow!
> 
> Seriously, it's his voice I like. His killer looks are just the cherry on top.


I'm glad that great minds think alike, because this is *exactly* the way I feel about his female counterpart, Anna Netrebko La Bellissima. Seriously, it's her boobs... oh wait, I mean, her voice I like. Her killer looks are just the cherry on top.:angel:

:devil:


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> I'm glad that great minds think alike, because this is *exactly* the way I feel about his female counterpart, Anna Netrebko La Bellissima. Seriously, it's her boobs... oh wait, I mean, her voice I like. Her killer looks are just the cherry on top.:angel:
> 
> :devil:


Yeah, el Guapo isn't as generous as La Bellissima when it comes to inadvertently displaying some of his other assets.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Bump...in the hope that some of our newer members might share their opera journey with us:tiphat:.

The original questions were:

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?

How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?

What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?

Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?

Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?

_And, if you've liked opera for some years:

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?
_


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

My father loved classical music, Bach over anything else, but he was not a big fan of opera (perhaps because Bach never wrote one). We did have a few recordings at home (Aida, Trovatore, Lohengrin, Norma, Madama Butterfly,....), but opera was a second rate form of art. It took me some years to jump over this childhood hurdle.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

Best place for opera is the theater, of course. Having said that, my main interest is in the music and the voices, so live performance is great, but it was not my catalyst.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

The Norma recording above. It was the Callas / Del Monaco / Simionato from La Scala.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

Changed, no. Of course, I've been exposed to many operas along the way, but I was very open minded from the beginning.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

Many.

I mean friends, not spouses. Of the last, I've only one.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?_

I wish to explore everything.

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?
_

There is no goal, the important thing here is the journey.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

schigolch said:


> _Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _
> 
> Many.
> 
> I mean friends, not spouses. Of the last, I've only one.


Good one! :lol::lol::lol:


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Bump...in the hope that some of our newer members might share their opera journey with us:tiphat:.
> 
> The original questions were:
> 
> ...


Rebump....


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all?*
When I was a young kid. Very young, that is. (Because when the three tenors did their shows, I watched them and had a great time. I was particularly amused by Pavarotti having a laugh during "O Sole Mio" when Domingo and Carreras had to double up. I was maybe ten.)

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*
I'm 50/50 with this. I must admit that I'm a sucker for good arias and if I can get that in a concert situation, I'm as happy with that as I am seeing a whole opera. The first opera I saw live in the house was an English adaptation of "Tosca" that left nothing to be desired, but when I saw a very talented busker in London doing all my favourite arias, _that_ left a lot to be desired.  For various reasons (see bottom of answer)

*What specific opera do you first recall loving?*
"Pagliacci." _Riiiiiiiiiidiiiiiiiii pagliacciooo, sul tuo amore infraaaaaaantoooooo, riiiidiii del duol, ha-ha, che t'avvelena... il coooor!_ has me in tears whenever I put it on. I still have a tape from when I was a teenager where I have Mario Lanza singing this aria - in amongst whatever other **** I listened to as a teen. :lol:

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*
I started out listening to Mario Lanza, Jussi Björling and Pavarotti and in my world that was all. Now I'm probably more into Giuseppe Giacomini than anyone else - but to me, his was a voice I had to _learn to love._ Once I did... Christ, I can't get enough of it. He's quite a difference from, say, Lanza 

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?*
My partner *is* an opera singer. He's the busker I mentioned above.


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## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

:cheers: Cheers operafocus, that is a wonderful story! 

Thanks for sharing your journey. Do you have a different perspective on opera, since you have a close attachment to its performance now?


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

FragendeFrau said:


> :cheers: Cheers operafocus, that is a wonderful story!
> 
> Thanks for sharing your journey. Do you have a different perspective on opera, since you have a close attachment to its performance now?


I do, actually. Before I was *into* opera, and knew the standard arias and had my three favourite tenors that I played quite a bit. Since knowing him, who's worked with and/or seen operas starring *many* of the greats, I've discovered an incredible amount of new talent, I don't only choose tenors (but I admit I stick to male voices - though in all ranges), I've attended more live operas than I've attended ordinary concerts, I've got an incredible insight into what it takes to *be* an opera singer and so on.

(Trust me, living with a spinto tenor on a narrowboat for a year and a half nearly rendered me deaf, as he did his daily warm-ups and rehearsed for roles. I ended up with an office in the garden shed :lol: )

I listen to opera now in a different way. I've learned about voice types, techniques, range... all the things I didn't get into when it was just me by myself with my opera interest. From only being able to distinguish a tenor from a soprano, I can now distinguish a lyric spinto tenor from a heldentenor, and which roles a certain voice type would sound best doing. It's like taking music eduation and yet I don't feel that I'm studying - but I suck up information like a mix between a vacuum cleaner and a tape recorder 

If only all things in life was as enjoyable


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Operafocus said:


> I do, actually. Before I was *into* opera, and knew the standard arias and had my three favourite tenors that I played quite a bit. Since knowing him, who's worked with and/or seen operas starring *many* of the greats, I've discovered an incredible amount of new talent, I don't only choose tenors (but I admit I stick to male voices - though in all ranges), I've attended more live operas than I've attended ordinary concerts, I've got an incredible insight into what it takes to *be* an opera singer and so on.
> 
> (Trust me, living with a spinto tenor on a narrowboat for a year and a half nearly rendered me deaf, as he did his daily warm-ups and rehearsed for roles. I ended up with an office in the garden shed :lol: )
> 
> ...


That's absolutely wonderful! And thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Living on a narrowboat with an opera singer would be my idea of heaven! I live near this canal & love the whole narrowboat/canal thing.


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## Operafocus (Jul 17, 2011)

sospiro said:


> That's absolutely wonderful! And thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
> 
> Living on a narrowboat with an opera singer would be my idea of heaven! I live near this canal & love the whole narrowboat/canal thing.


:cheers:

I wish I could say that life on a narrowboat is as romantic as it sounds. We have one up for sale in London if you want one


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Operafocus said:


> :cheers:
> 
> I wish I could say that life on a narrowboat is as romantic as it sounds. We have one up for sale in London if you want one


I know they can be bloddy cold in winter & expensive & complicated to maintain but I would still love to live on one. If I didn't have to work & had the money I might just take you up on your offer.

The trouble is I have this very costly addiction and there is no support or counselling available. Perhaps I could start one and call it *OAA* - *O*pera *A*ddicts *A*nonymous

What do you think?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I know they can be bloddy cold in winter & expensive & complicated to maintain but I would still love to live on one. If I didn't have to work & had the money I might just take you up on your offer.
> 
> The trouble is I have this very costly addiction and there is no support or counselling available. Perhaps I could start one and call it *OAA* - *O*pera *A*ddicts *A*nonymous
> 
> What do you think?


I think that the best way to treat this addiction is to feed into it. Just watch more and more opera so you're never at risk for withdrawal.


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## Dins (Jun 21, 2011)

I have been reading this forum for a while now, but not posted. So I guess this is a good place to make my first post.

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

It took me some years to get in to Opera. I have always listened to a wide variety of music, but i could just not get into opera. My first impression of opera was that they were screaming.  But since then i have come to know better. My journey to opera was through the classical music. I listened to a lot of classical music. And that led me to grand choral works like Bach's chorales, the final movement of Beethoven's 9th, Orffs Carmina Burana. And from that the step to opera wasn't that big. But it took me 10-15 years from the time a started to listen to classical, until I became an opera fan.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*

Opera is of course best when viewed live, but i still can appreciate a good performance on video, or on CD. But nothing beats being at the opera and seeing it all live. And of all operas my first live opera was Die Walküre. 

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?
*

That's easy. The first opera i ever watched was Ingemar Bergmans Trollflöjten (Die Zauberflüte). I was about 11 years old when it was shown on swedish TV for the first time. However it took me about 20 years after that before I really started to listen to opera.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?
*

Yes, my taste has changed, so that I listen to a wider range of opera. In the beginning i listen to Rossini, Mozart and Donizetti. After that i moved forward in time to Verdi, Puccini and later Wagner. Nowadays i listen to operas from Handel to Stravinsky.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?
*

Fortunately yes.

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?
*

I still have a lot of contemporary composers left to explore. But i still have a huge chunk of operas left to listen to up to Stravinsky, so for now that has to wait. That's unless my local opera happens to play an opera by a contemporary composer. Right now I am busy enough by filling in the many gaps I have in the top 154 (for now) opera list.

*Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*
Listen to things that you like. Don't force your self to like something because every one else says it is great. Trust yourself and learn what composers and singers you like and take it from there. When you feel comfortable with that repertoire it is time to broaden your listening. At least that is how I did it.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Welcome to the forum Dins.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Welcome to the forum, Dins! Good to have more Scandinavians here!

And what is the deal with all of these opera fans all of a sudden joining the forum? I love it!


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## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

Welcome Dins! Another Walküre lover? I like your advice at the end, too. Look forward to reading your comments.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Welcome, Dins!
And @ Aksel, I would proudly guess that the forum has been growing in quality, that's why we've been getting more quality members joining, and vice-versa - it's a self-feeding positive cycle. I'm very happy about it. I think we've been turning into the best place to discuss opera in the English-speaking cyberspace. Maybe what I'm saying is presumptuous but I do feel it's true.


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## Dins (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the kind welcomes.



FragendeFrau said:


> Welcome Dins! Another Walküre lover?


I am no die-hard Wagner fan. But i don't hate him either...  I think i prefer Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg over the ring. It might have to do with the Gothenburg Operas wonderful performance of it last year.

I cant embed the video, but some excerpts of it can be seen on 



 (5 hours of opera condensed to 2 1/2 minute  )


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Dins said:


> Thanks for all the kind welcomes.
> 
> I am no die-hard Wagner fan. But i don't hate him either...  I think i prefer Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg over the ring. It might have to do with the Gothenburg Operas wonderful performance of it last year.
> 
> ...


What a lovely production! And I also prefer Meistersinger.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Aksel said:


> What a lovely production! And I also prefer Meistersinger.


It does look quite lovely (though that final image caught me a bit off guard!). Another worthy effort we probably won't get to see on DVD.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Wow! this Meistersinger looks like it's a lot of fun!


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

*First opera experience?*

Hello everyone! Alright, I'm still very new to the Opera world and I'm curious as to how old you were, where you were, and what you were doing when you first encountered Opera? Did your parents play it at home? Did you stumble across it? What?

I was completely ignorant of opera untill I, by chance, came across a three minute clip on Youtube of a woman in very scary/beautiful costume. It was the costume that caught my eye. So, curious, I clicked on it and heard such a beautiful piece of music! Now I'm not sure if it was the acting, the singing, the asthetic, or maybe a combination of all three that got me hooked, but instantly I became a fan. 

I'm 19, this was four months ago, and the video clip was of Diana Damrau singing Der Holle Rache from Die Zauberflote. Before this, Opera was just this thing that I new existed elsewhere, and my only previous memories of Opera were from bugs bunny cartoons. 

Sadly it was never around when I was younger, but happily all it took to convert me was three miutes of my time. And thats all it was, I had no context, and couldn't understand a thing she was saying, but the artform was so powerful that it didn't matter! Ok I feel like I'm getting a bit after-school special here, almost done!

So please tell us about your first Opera experience! :tiphat:


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## Theophrastus (Aug 13, 2011)

Hello CountessAdele

In a wildly misjudged attempt to get me and my siblings into opera, my dad took us to The Flying Dutchman at the English National Opera when I was 13 or so. We had the worst seats in the house - even at 13 my legs were cramped - my sister lost an earing and sat there fuming while we were deafened for 3 hours by incomprehensible music. Afterwards he said he thought we must like Wagner because we listened to such loud music all the time.

I have discovered that I like bits of operas since then, but I still haven't got the hang of it. WHen I've been to operas since, I haven't been able to work out if I'm listening to music or watching a drama...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Hi, CountessAdele.
There is a thread for this already:

http://www.talkclassical.com/5222-your-opera-journey.html

I'll give you a little time to see this, then I'll move these posts to that thread.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I had long read that one of my favorite stories, _The Lord of the Rings_, was heavily influenced by Norse mythology among other things, and that Wagner's Ring Cycle has a very similar story. I read a synopsis on Wikipedia and thought, yes, this has some similarities, dwarves, giants, a magic ring, even self immolation. I had also been very taken with John Boorman's_ Excaliber_ movie which uses a lot of music from the Ring Cycle. I was then interested enough to want to go to the source.

I placed all four operas of the ring Cycle in my Netflix queue and immersed myself in Wagner's world for about a week. It was an epic experience. This was an early 1980's Bayreuth Festival production. I was just a bit disappointed in that as the story progresses, the costumes become more modern in that production until by the end everyone looks more film noir than epic mythology, but I didn't mind too much. I really enjoyed the story and the pageantry, in spite of the male hero being a bit of a dunce.

I was in my early 50's and that was my first real opera experience. Well, I seldom do things by half measures. I've watched a few operas since then, though never live, but none have quite compared to The Ring yet for me. My recent attempt at watching_ Tristan und Isolde_ was a complete flop. I wasn't in the mood I guess.


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Hi, CountessAdele.
> There is a thread for this already:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/5222-your-opera-journey.html
> ...


Oh, thank you Alma! I didn't realize.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Hello CountessAdele & welcome to the forum.

That Die Zauberflöte is a stunner & I'm not surprised you've been hooked. Buying opera DVDs is expensive & can become addictive but you may want to check out the 'nearly new' ones from Amazon. I usually get second hand ones now & not had a dud yet. 

Hope you enjoy our little community.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

18. University. Free tickets to _Tosca_ because I was writing for the student newspaper.


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

Neither really. I remember a landlord gave me a tape (remember those!) of various artists and i recall Mario Del Monaco in particular. From there i bought my first CDs of Mario Del Monaco, Guiseppe de Stefano and loved them. I also recall a scene (i think the death of Boris) from Boris Godunov.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*

Whilst i love watching opera live, i have not always lived close to an opera house. I do try and watch opera live but i get frustrated by either the cost or the only seat available. I might seem like a kill joy but i cant stand the coughing, munching, phones and moving about that the audience does during a live performance. So now i make do with DVD.

I used to collect cds and have something like 25 Madame Butterflys, and many, many versions of lots of operas i enjoy. About 2000 cds in total which is a good amount. Actually, i have done similar with DVDs but now when i have one i enjoy i try not to get another...except for Wagners Ring when i buy anything and everything. But i still have lots.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

oh for sure it was Verisimo, Puccini, Mascagni and Leoncavallo

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?
*

Much broader for sure. At first i did not like Berg and Wagner but over time i have grown to love these.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?*

Not in particular but they understand and will come along. It can be difficult. I remember watching Franz Kafka's 'K' performed in Paris and that was difficult for them to enjoy.

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

More Wagner, to try and understand Parsifal and sit through the whole thing.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I was 15 and we went to see The Makropoulos Case here in Amsterdam. Instant amazement


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Hi, CountessAdele, and another welcome to the forum.

I was still in diapers  when I first heard opera. My mom was from Germany and loved opera, so she was always either listening to it on the radio or playing recordings (this was back in the days of the old LPs). So it was something I grew up with and always liked.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Yashin said:


> Whilst i love watching opera live, i have not always lived close to an opera house. I do try and watch opera live but i get frustrated by either the cost or the only seat available. I might seem like a kill joy *but i cant stand the coughing, munching, phones and moving about that the audience does during a live performance*. So now i make do with DVD.


You know I'm beginning to feel like that too. The last time I had a seat neighbour who fidgeted noisily with her empty wine glass (sometimes even tapping it with her long nails) for the whole of the first part of Rheingold. I couldn't believe it, as she had informed me that she was a member of the local company's chorus, I'd have thought she would know better.


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## Yashin (Jul 22, 2011)

And sadly it has nothing to do with age or 'class' if i can use that word. I think they should have an announcement at the start of all performances (its aimed at the slightly older lady who should know better, but is a member of the friends of X opera company and gets her tickets at a discount.......)

"Please have a rummage through your handbag now to switch off your phone, find your glasses or your tissue. That big bag of individual wrapped sweets was not a good idea! Don't talk during the overture thinking that the Opera hasn't started-its not the adverts at the cinema! If you have a drink during the breaks then please try and clear your throat before the Opera starts again (why they need to i have no idea) and try to avoid coughing during the tenderest moments. Oh in fact if you have a bad cough, have the good sense to either (1) stay at home or (2) at least bring some water with you in case it starts. Don't translate every word for the person sat next to you. Don't wave your hands around pretending to conduct the overture or hum during the "memorable bits". If your husband hates opera don't bring him because he will just have a few drinks before it starts, fidget and fall asleep! Thanks Dear .....

sorry for the rant....Patronizing i know!!! But thats why i have gone off going to watch it.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yashin said:


> And sadly it has nothing to do with age or 'class' if i can use that word. I think they should have an announcement at the start of all performances (its aimed at the slightly older lady who should know better, but is a member of the friends of X opera company and gets her tickets at a discount.......)
> 
> "Please have a rummage through your handbag now to switch off your phone, find your glasses or your tissue. That big bag of individual wrapped sweets was not a good idea! Don't talk during the overture thinking that the Opera hasn't started-its not the adverts at the cinema! If you have a drink during the breaks then please try and clear your throat before the Opera starts again (why they need to i have no idea) and try to avoid coughing during the tenderest moments. Oh in fact if you have a bad cough, have the good sense to either (1) stay at home or (2) at least bring some water with you in case it starts. Don't translate every word for the person sat next to you. Don't wave your hands around pretending to conduct the overture or hum during the "memorable bits". If your husband hates opera don't bring him because he will just have a few drinks before it starts, fidget and fall asleep! Thanks Dear .....
> 
> sorry for the rant....Patronizing i know!!! But thats why i have gone off going to watch it.


While I agree with everything else, I do "air conduct" when I attend live performances - is it really annoying?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> While I agree with everything else, I do "air conduct" when I attend live performances - is it really annoying?


Yup. Better sit on your hands at Les Troyens.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yup. Better sit on your hands at Les Troyens.


 Darn!.........


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> While I agree with everything else, I do "air conduct" when I attend live performances - is it really annoying?





mamascarlatti said:


> Yup. Better sit on your hands at Les Troyens





Almaviva said:


> Darn! .........


I detect a bit of 'Alma-humor' (please note American spelling) in his *air conduct* comment?

If not, I know of a suitable punishment ...


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

sospiro said:


> I detect a bit of 'Alma-humor' (please note American spelling) in his *air conduct* comment?
> 
> If not, I know of a suitable punishment ...


Better yet, make him spend an entire day not listening to or looking at La Bellissima. He'll be begging for mercy! :lol:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

MAuer said:


> Better yet, make him spend an entire day not listening to or looking at La Bellissima. He'll be begging for mercy! :lol:


:devil: I like it!!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

sospiro said:


> I detect a bit of 'Alma-humor' (please note American spelling) in his *air conduct* comment?
> 
> If not, I know of a suitable punishment ...


Then we'll have him leaping out of his seat and screaming like a big girl and then rummaging around noisily in his backpack for wet fish to get his own back.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Then we'll have him leaping out of his seat and screaming like a big girl and then rummaging around noisily in his backpack for wet fish to get his own back.












Blimey. What to do??


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

sospiro said:


> Hello CountessAdele & welcome to the forum.
> 
> That Die Zauberflöte is a stunner & I'm not surprised you've been hooked. Buying opera DVDs is expensive & can become addictive but you may want to check out the 'nearly new' ones from Amazon. I usually get second hand ones now & not had a dud yet.
> 
> Hope you enjoy our little community.


Thanks Annie! I definatly will! Wow I'm glad I joined this forum, everyones been nice!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

CountessAdele said:


> Wow I'm glad I joined this forum, everyones been nice!


Just watch out for that amfortas guy. I hear he sits on his front porch all day and yells at kids to get off his lawn.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

amfortas said:


> Just watch out for that amfortas guy. I hear he sits on his front porch all day and yells at kids to get off his lawn.


 Nah, that's a rumor. Amfortas is homeless, he's got no lawn, he posts from the public computer at the homeless shelter.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Nah, that's a rumor. Amfortas is homeless, he's got no lawn, he posts from the public computer at the homeless shelter.


[Looks around for the hidden camera!]


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## FrankieP (Aug 24, 2011)

Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?
_I didn't particularly care for opera until relatively recently - a year or two ago - but I've been highly 'into' classical music for 9/10 years or so (I'm 17). _

How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? 
_I saw From The House of the Dead live and then had a great time exploring Janacek  But I saw a DVD performance of the Turn of the Screw and preferred it to seeing it live a few months before.._

What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?
_Again, I'd say Janacek. But the first opera I loved was Tosca._

Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?
_I've got much more into Italian opera recently _

Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? 
_My family don't mind it.. though they'd rather be watching Britain's Got Talent I think _

Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? 
_YES - I haven't got into MOZART yet!! It's top of my to-do list!_


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Another bump 

Some of these members don't post any more but some of us old timers are still around


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm not opera afficionado at this point; I casually listen to highlights here and there. I have been listening more recently, I'm rather into Figaro and Cosi Fan Tutte highlights at the moment. I decided to sample some French Baroque opera and just downloaded this, highights of Lully operas:









I'll give it my first listen tonight!


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

nefigah said:


> _Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_


_

I never cared for opera until 2008. I used to try it once in a while, and until I heard Norma nothing ever took.

As far as classical music goes, my parents had a lot of it and I gravitated to it as a kid. I had a lot of pop music too, and eventually all the pop music left and the classical music just took over like wild turkeys on a tricycle.



nefigah said:



How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?

Click to expand...

I went from recordings at the library to live in HD to moving to New York, that was the progression to me. One of the surprising things about performances in the theater is how much better the sound is on recordings, sometimes! Or in the movie theater! Recording engineers (I now believe) can display the sound an artist makes much better than the artist can (if that makes any sense).

Live performances have not been any kind of catalyst. I'm deeply motivated - and was before I got here - by the notion that there's a great deal of opera that others appreciate, that I don't. So I'm missing out. That's what I work on.



nefigah said:



What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?

Click to expand...

See above answer: Norma, Bellini. I don't actually listen to it much any more - the progression of an obsession - but I used to listen to Norma every night on my way home from work, and Sonnambula every morning on my way to work.



nefigah said:



Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?

Click to expand...

Within the genre of opera? I have kind of begun to think of operas as individuals, and each individual has his or her own cultural misconceptions and preconceptions and demands and expectations. Each opera is really its own genre. I mean, I've only been at it a few years, and so I don't have the experience to know, but that's how I think now. I'm surprised that I don't like Ballo in Maschera nearly as much as I used to, but I can't imagine why.



nefigah said:



Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately not. I had the chance at a friend who appreciates opera, but the whole relationship thing was far too demanding for me, and I couldn't manage it.



nefigah said:



Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?

Click to expand...

_Oh, god yes. Operas scare me, I think, and then to face my fears I'll give one a try. The problem with exploring an opera is you never, never know if you tried it the right way. I didn't like Lucia di Lammermoor, or Traviata, until I saw Natalie Dessay in them. Now they're both on my list of favorites. How could one actress make such a difference? It's scary. There could be so much good stuff out there that I'm only missing because I haven't seen the right performance.



nefigah said:


> _Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_


Gosh, what I wouldn't give for something funny to say here.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

guythegreg said:


> Gosh, what I wouldn't give for something funny to say here.


I think this counts:



> ....... eventually all the pop music left and the classical music just took over like wild turkeys on a tricycle.


:lol::lol::lol:


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

lol yeah, check it out: 




(sorry, don't have the markup language to make it appear here)


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## Dakota (Jun 30, 2012)

> _Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_


I only really discovered classical music in college when my best friends were musicians and I loved to sit on the floor in their practice rooms (cello and piano) and listen while I did my homework. When I first moved to NYC after college many of my friends were pianists and singers and it must have been their influence that got me to my first opera, wish I remembered but I don't.

I used to take the libretto out of the Lincoln Ctr library and read it sitting somewhere in the plaza, then grab a cheap seat or a standing room ticket, for NY City Opera mostly, it was cheaper than the Met. The only thing I saw at the Met in those early years was Butterfly from Family Circle. I also went to the ballet in both houses and to the Mozart Festival every August.

Then I descended into the maw of Wall Street for a few years, plenty of money for opera but no time, and then into the GIGANTIC maw of motherhood, no time, no money, no energy. Music became Raffi singing "Baby Beluga", LOL.

When the film Amadeus came out in 1984, I suddenly remembered all the things I loved that I was missing. But for the next 20 years opera was confined to Saturday radio broadcasts from the Met and a few random CDs. Then the Met in HD series arrived and opera clips on You Tube and the payments for braces and college tuition started becoming more manageable and I was able to exercise my passions again. 



> _How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_


Oh, very important, I have always seen opera as the one art form that includes them all: music, vocal and instrumental, acting, literature, dance, art, everything. I still do listen to streaming and live broadcasts on internet radio but I vastly prefer to see opera live. I have been lucky enough to see opera in NYC, DC and Santa Fe so far and look forward to more opera trips. 



> _What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_


I have always been a Mozart girl (ya think??) but I have loved everything I have seen. I still have a long way to go before I will have seen all of Mo-Z's (as my kids call him) operas.



> _Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_


Oh, definitely; I never would have imagined liking as many modern operas as I do but I enjoy Adams and Glass and plan to explore many more. I was totally intimidated by Wagner until the 2010-11 season but am beginning to see why people like him. I did my first (abbreviated) Ring Cycle when the Met put out all four from the HD series over two weekends recently.



> _Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?_


I wish............ A few friends who like opera but nobody who loves it as I do (but I did drive husband #1 nuts by playing Einstein on the Beach endlessly). :lol: (Note to self: investigate the correlation between opera and divorce.) With opera fans spread out all across the universe, I guess forums like this one are where opera friendships thrive.



> _Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _


Oh, I want to see and hear and experience everything; there is nobody knocked off my list yet!

And, if you've liked opera for some years:



> _Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_


Sure, just follow what you love. Maybe you hear a piece of music in a film, find out what it is and listen to more by that composer. Each composer will lead you on to others. Follow your joy...........


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Dakota said:


> Then I descended into the maw of Wall Street for a few years, plenty of money for opera but no time, and then into the GIGANTIC maw of motherhood, no time, no money, no energy. Music became Raffi singing "Baby Beluga", LOL.


So funny but so true!



Dakota said:


> Sure, just follow what you love. Maybe you hear a piece of music in a film, find out what it is and listen to more by that composer. Each composer will lead you on to others. * Follow your joy*...........


That's a great way of putting it!


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## Sandy (Dec 23, 2009)

My goodness, I had forgotten all about posting here. Thank you for sending me an email to remind me that there are others "into" the world of grand opera.

Several years ago my kids bought me a satellite radio that has been set to receive the N.Y. Met Opera. There are all kinds of radio stations, but the Opera is the one that I rely on for pure enjoyment. 

I grew up with Opera as my mother was an accompaniest for many opera singers so it was a sound that was heard day and night in the home. I moved to Palm Desert, California where several art movie theaters do the live taped performances with back stage scene changes and chats with the performers.

I'm getting very old and I wonder what else in my life on and off line that I have forgottten. I intend to wander all over the forum and renew many of you. Be patient with me as I am OLD and my sight is weak and my hands are arthritic and often hurt. My hearing is good.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Sandy said:


> My goodness, I had forgotten all about posting here. Thank you for sending me an email to remind me that there are others "into" the world of grand opera. ...
> 
> ... I intend to wander all over the forum and renew many of you. Be patient with me as I am OLD and my sight is weak and my hands are arthritic and often hurt. My hearing is good.


Hi Sandy! Take your time! We'll shout!


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

Yes, for many years I assumed (without the slightest evidence) that opera was a heavy, corny, melodramatic, sentimental art form in which I would take no interest. And yes, there were years when I only listened to classical music (along with other genres), but not opera. However, once I became seriously interested in classical music, about a year and a half ago, after about six months of exploring only instrumental music, I bought a CD of Solti "Ring" highlights. Since that time I have become more and more interested in opera. Strauss was a good gateway for me, since I first became a big fan of his orchestral works (especially 'Don Juan,' at first), and from there, exploring his operas was a natural step.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? *

I just saw my first live performance (of "Madama Butterfly") a couple of weeks ago, so live performance had nothing to do with the development of my interest in opera. Primarily this has been nurtured by renting DVDs from the library.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

There wasn't one in particular. Wagner was the first to introduce me to the genre, but now I would not say that I love his operas any more than Verdi's or Puccini's or Mozart's. I don't have one favorite opera -- I've come to admire pretty much all of the greats I've heard. I first thought that 'Lucia di Lammermoor' was kind of corny and formulaic, but after listening to it a few more times, I came to appreciate the simplicity of the plot and language, and the genuine beauty of the music.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

Well, it's still early for me. I'm still in a learning mode. I'm past the initial novice phase, but still have yet to get acquainted with operas by (for instance) Handel, Weber, Monteverdi and Britten. I think over the past year, my tastes have grown more catholic (in the "lower case C" meaning of the term) -- initially I had thoughts about much preferring Wagner and Strauss to Italian opera. However, now I see how wrong I was about that. The two styles are quite different, yes, but each style has its own strong points. One book that was helpful to me is "Opera 101" by Fred Plotkin. It's a great introduction for people who may be entirely new to opera.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? *

No. I don't know anyone who takes an interest in it! It is a fairly eccentric interest to have in 2012, at least in America.

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

Yes, many. I want to explore more deeply all styles and composers. I've learned to appreciate Mussorgsky and Tchaikovsky, but haven't yet heard operas by Stravinsky or Rimsky-Korsakov, for example. I've become a big fan of Verdi, Puccini and Donizetti, but haven't yet heard Bellini or Rossini. The reason for this is that I go slowly. I tend to ruminate over an individual opera for days, even weeks, re-watching it several times until I feel like I really understand it. I still need to explore Debussy's 'Pelleas et Melisande' -- I love Debussy's instrumental pieces, but when I tried to get into this opera, I was totally baffled.


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## Dakota (Jun 30, 2012)

Sandy said:


> I grew up with Opera as my mother was an accompaniest for many opera singers so it was a sound that was heard day and night in the home.


WOW, what a fantastic way to grow up!!! I bet you have some stories to tell!



> My hearing is good.


Since you are online, explore some of the fabulous live and recorded opera available. I recommend Operavore: http://www.wqxr.org/ WQXR has five stations online specializing in traditional classical music, opera, modern classical music and I have to admit I have not explored the other two yet.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Glissando said:


> I just saw my first live performance (of "Madama Butterfly") a couple of weeks ago, so live performance had nothing to do with the development of my interest in opera. Primarily this has been nurtured by renting DVDs from the library.


How did your first live performance affect you? Was it any good?

Personally I love that feeling of being in the same room as the performers, and of course the soundscape is so different from recorded music.


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> How did your first live performance affect you? Was it any good?
> 
> Personally I love that feeling of being in the same room as the performers, and of course the soundscape is so different from recorded music.


I did really enjoy it, and I definitely want to keep seeing more live operas. The ambience of having an audience watch something together with you live onstage was something you can't duplicate on DVD. However, I will admit that when I came home, I started comparing this live performance with the Freni/Domingo/Karajan 'Butterfly' that I have on DVD. In the performance I saw, I noticed some mistakes by the musicians, and I also felt that some of the voices (particularly the male singers) were not loud enough to carry over the music. So musically, it was at a lesser standard. But I don't think that will make me think any less fondly of the performance, since I can listen to the DVD any time, but I can't recreate the atmosphere of that night. It's not fair to compare every soprano with Mirella Freni, after all.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Glissando said:


> So musically, it was at a lesser standard. But I don't think that will make me think any less fondly of the performance, since I can listen to the DVD any time, but I can't recreate the atmosphere of that night. It's not fair to compare every soprano with Mirella Freni, after all.


Not to mention a live performance against a studio one where everything can be done until perfect, and the sound engineers can "correct" the balance.

But even so, I do get we are talking about Domingo and Freni.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

New poster here. As others have noted, this thread seems like a good place to start. For me interest beyond my classical music baseline was piqued in the late 80's by 1) the film "Moonstruck" which featured music from and even an actual performance of _La Boheme_. 2) a PBS broadcast of Robert Carsen's heavenly production of _Mefistofele_ at the San Francisco Opera. 3) A single Puccini/Verdi aria CD by Placido Domingo. When the Carsen _Mefistofele_ came to Chicago circa 1991 along with Turandot in the same season, it was enough impetus for me to get a season subscription.

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_

Though my interest in classical music started in my teens, I didn't really get into opera until my mid-20's - but that was more a matter of lacking exposure rather than lacking interest.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

I have a strong bias towards live performance to begin with, and the live experience is a big part of the draw for me. Between local companies, road trips, and summer festivals I generally see 10-12 live performances a year.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

First one I "fell for" was Mefistofele, but it was the music of Puccini that drew me in.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

They've definitely broadened in every direction from 19th century Italy. I've been surprised how much I enjoyed the exquisite production of Lully's _Atys_ at the Opera Comique last year as well as a few recent Western style operas by Chinese composers.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

Halfway thru the journey I met my current partner who happens to be an opera singer.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

Probably have at least delved into the most of the major ones at this point, looking forward to delving deeper. Have recently started studying librettos in the original languages. It's been both a disappointment and a pleasure (as in discovering a whole new level of enjoyment I'd been missing) to discover that most supertitles obscure the poetry and rhythm of the original words.

_And, if you've liked opera for some years:
Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_

Come for the music, stay for the drama!


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Welcome Cavaradossi! Next step - post your top 10 list! (the thread is labeled top 5, but nobody stopped at 5 I don't think) :lol:


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## Bardamu (Dec 12, 2011)

My interest in Opera is fairly recent, around a year if I'm not mistaken.

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_
I'll copy Cavaradossi answer word by word:
"Though my interest in classical music started in my teens, I didn't really get into opera until my mid-20's - but that was more a matter of lacking exposure rather than lacking interest."

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? _

Not much at all (I'm just still at one at the moment  ).
Music/melody is by far my most regarded aspect in Opera so just listen to CDs is good enough for me (but the right one is needed).
Then if I very like an opera I will watch a live performance.
Mind you an Opera full potential is only witnessed when you get the full deal.

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_

I gave a try to Norma just because of the famous Casta Diva.
Il barbiere di siviglia and the immortal Turandot with Cigna, Merli, Olivero and conducted by Franco Ghione sealed the deal.
So Bellini is the one for me.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_

No, I'm for the most part focused on italian Opera but I have many Operas (italian or not) to listen to.

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? _

Not at all, a bit of a shame.

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _

I'm looking to listen to more russian Operas.
And french too.
Oh and a more in deep listening to Strauss Operas.

Also I'm wondering if I'll ever find a post-Turandot (let's say post WW2) that I will love to death.



Cavaradossi said:


> They've definitely broadened in every direction from 19th century Italy. I've been surprised how much I enjoyed the exquisite production of Lully's _Atys_ at the Opera Comique last year *as well as a few recent Western style operas by Chinese composers.*


I'm curious.
Have some recommendations ?


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

Bardamu said:


> I gave a try to Norma just because of the famous Casta Diva.
> Il barbiere di siviglia and the immortal Turandot with Cigna, Merli, Olivero and conducted by Franco Ghione sealed the deal.
> So Bellini is the one for me.


Yayyy! another Bellini fan! (we have quite a few, but not as many as we need. The Wagner fans hog all the good threads. But try Parsifal anyway. And Lohengrin.)



> Also I'm wondering if I'll ever find a post-Turandot (let's say post WW2) that I will love to death.


Some of the members here are very high on Britten. Albert Herring, I think has been a recent fave, although I haven't tried it myself. And I know mamascarlatti recommended The Minotaur (Birtwistle) VERY highly.

Good luck ...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

guythegreg said:


> Some of the members here are very high on Britten. Albert Herring, I think has been a recent fave, although I haven't tried it myself. *And I know mamascarlatti recommended The Minotaur (Birtwistle) VERY highly*.


Yes, but to watch, not to listen to. Apart from Britten (especially Billy Budd, Turn of the Screw, and Peter Grimes), I haven't found any post-Turandot operas that I really enoy purely listening to either.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Bardamu said:


> I'm curious.
> Have some recommendations ?


Saw this at Central City in 2007. Unfortunately all I could find was this choppy clip.

POET LI BAI 
Music by Guo Wenjing
Libretto by Diana Liao and Xu Ying






And Tan Dun's "The First Emperor" made a big splash at the Met in 2006. Not for everyone, but I liked the fresh vocal style.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Yayyy! another Bellini fan! (we have quite a few, but not as many as we need. The Wagner fans hog all the good threads.

Hey! I'm a Wagner fan... but I also love Bellini. While it may be true that Wagner hogs up more than his share of threads (but he is the greatest opera composer after all... with the possible exception of Mozart) still Bellini fans don't need to worry about all the Nazi nonsense.:lol:


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yes, but to watch, not to listen to. Apart from Britten (especially Billy Budd, Turn of the Screw, and Peter Grimes), I haven't found any post-Turandot operas that I really enoy purely listening to either.


Gotcha.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

guythegreg said:


> Gotcha.


Menotti is really great.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

guythegreg said:


> Gotcha.


Aah, I just realised I told a lie. I have also listened with pleasure to Nixon in China and at one point became obsessed with Akhnaten.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

mamascarlatti said:


> Aah, I just realised I told a lie. I have also listened with pleasure to Nixon in China and at one point became obsessed with Akhnaten.


Ah, that's it. Did you hear that wump? Can you smell the smoke? There's now an empty hole where my brain used to be. What will I think with? Who cares? La la la ...


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Ah, Nat. You mentioned Nixon in China. That means this video must be posted:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Aksel said:


> Ah, Nat. You mentioned Nixon in China. That means this video must be posted:


It must indeed. Screamingly scary and brilliant stuff.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Hello Cavaradossi & welcome to the forum.

It's great to meet another _Mefistofele_ fan. I'm quite obsessed with this opera & have several DVDs & CDs. Do you have a favourite recording? I can never decide - I listen to Ramey and that's my favourite, then I listen to Ciepi and, no, _that's_ my favourite, then I listen to Ghiaurov etc etc


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

sospiro said:


> Hello Cavaradossi & welcome to the forum.
> 
> It's great to meet another _Mefistofele_ fan. I'm quite obsessed with this opera & have several DVDs & CDs. Do you have a favourite recording? I can never decide - I listen to Ramey and that's my favourite, then I listen to Ciepi and, no, _that's_ my favourite, then I listen to Ghiaurov etc etc


Thanks sospiro. I've only seen the Carsen SanFrancisco/Chicago production, first on TV (available on DVD?) then when it passed thru Chicago in 1991 and again 1998, all three times with Ramey. To be honest I was more enamoured of the production itself than Ramey. (That heavenly prologue scene... WOW!) So much so, that I'd be leary of seeing other versions that might detract from the strong first impression it made. I don't think I can say that about any other opera.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Cavaradossi said:


> Thanks sospiro. I've only seen the Carsen SanFrancisco/Chicago production, first on TV (available on DVD?) then when it passed thru Chicago in 1991 and again 1998, all three times with Ramey. To be honest I was more enamoured of the production itself than Ramey. (That heavenly prologue scene... WOW!)


If it's this one, I envy you so much that you saw this production. I would love to have seen it!

















Cavaradossi said:


> So much so, that I'd be leary of seeing other versions that might detract from the strong first impression it made. I don't think I can say that about any other opera.


I know what you mean. If I'd seen it live I don't think I'd want to see another version. There are some operas I've seen recently, _Les Troyens_ for example, where I just don't want to see or hear another version.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

After gorging myself with Wagner operas, I finally saw my first non-Wagner opera! It was _La Traviata._ It was nice and everything, I liked it! But, unsurprisingly, it was no Wagner.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Xaltotun said:


> After gorging myself with Wagner operas, I finally saw my first non-Wagner opera! It was _La Traviata._ It was nice and everything, I liked it! But, unsurprisingly, it was no Wagner.


:lol: Oh well, it's a start!


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Couchie's enthusiasm got me listening to Wagner (beyond the most popular excerpts) around January. I jumped around the late Bayreuth canon and have since then "acquired" around 100+ Wagner CDs. 

Subsequently: Otello, Turandot. 

The rest is history.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

It all started when I was in highschool, I saw the film Amadeus, as part of the music program. This was my eyeopener (or should I say earopener) for classical music. I had never heard these kind of sounds. The opera fascinated me, but it was too much for me at that time. From that moment on I started listening to (instrumental) classical music. It turned out my parents had classical records, after some months I knew them better than my parents. I also started to visit the public libary to read about the music and the composers. And I started to listen to more recordings. 

After a while vocal music started to appeal to me. I started with Mozart's requiem. Then I got a copy of Don Giovanni. I kept playing it, starting to love it. Then I was hooked and started to check out more composers. Now, some 25 years later, I always keep coming back to Mozart operas, Don Giovanni, Figaro and Magic Flute. I can never get enough of it.

I try to keep adding new works. A 'new' opera takes a lot of time until I can say that I'm familiar with it. I want to read about it, listen many times, and check out the different productions, and different singers/conductors. I also like to study the score. I'm so happy with IMSLP !


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Dongiovanni said:


> It all started when I was in highschool, I saw the film Amadeus, as part of the music program. This was my eyeopener (or should I say earopener) for classical music. I had never heard these kind of sounds. The opera fascinated me, but it was too much for me at that time. From that moment on I started listening to (instrumental) classical music. It turned out my parents had classical records, after some months I knew them better than my parents. I also started to visit the public libary to read about the music and the composers. And I started to listen to more recordings.
> 
> After a while vocal music started to appeal to me. I started with Mozart's requiem. Then I got a copy of Don Giovanni. I kept playing it, starting to love it. Then I was hooked and started to check out more composers. Now, some 25 years later, I always keep coming back to Mozart operas, Don Giovanni, Figaro and Magic Flute. I can never get enough of it.
> 
> I try to keep adding new works. A 'new' opera takes a lot of time until I can say that I'm familiar with it. I want to read about it, listen many times, and check out the different productions, and different singers/conductors. I also like to study the score. I'm so happy with IMSLP !


That's a great story DG! I'm so happy for you that you started your journey when you were young. It takes me a long time to learn a new (new to me) opera and I wish I'd started when I was younger.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Dongiovanni said:


> It all started when I was in highschool, I saw the film Amadeus, as part of the music program. This was my eyeopener (or should I say earopener) for classical music. I had never heard these kind of sounds. The opera fascinated me, but it was too much for me at that time. From that moment on I started listening to (instrumental) classical music. It turned out my parents had classical records, after some months I knew them better than my parents. I also started to visit the public libary to read about the music and the composers. And I started to listen to more recordings.
> 
> After a while vocal music started to appeal to me. I started with Mozart's requiem. Then I got a copy of Don Giovanni. I kept playing it, starting to love it. Then I was hooked and started to check out more composers. Now, some 25 years later, I always keep coming back to Mozart operas, Don Giovanni, Figaro and Magic Flute. I can never get enough of it.
> 
> I try to keep adding new works. A 'new' opera takes a lot of time until I can say that I'm familiar with it. I want to read about it, listen many times, and check out the different productions, and different singers/conductors. I also like to study the score. I'm so happy with IMSLP !


We have much in common!

Since i was little my father took me to every concert there was in my hometown (Madeira Island, Portugal). I'd never seen, though, an opera because there's no such place for that. I have always been familiar with what normally people call Classical music.

In college i was a member (and i am) to a student folkmusic group. There a singer (no related to Opera, but who liked it) show me one time Nessun Dorma. I didn't know what is was about until another friend of mine (this one is tenor) explained to me the story behind it. The next several nights (yes, in college i used to sleep durinde the day) i learnt as much as i could about Turandot, i became obsessive and i want to know other operas.

With time, my thoughts on music changed drastically. Every chord, every note should be justified according to the message Everything to me started to make sense i music, as a mean to express human feelings, should first serve for the sake of them instead of a cute tune or a good beat or kinky melody. And i wanted to know more. Sometimes i feel myself (if i may make such comparison) like Tristan standing between love and death.

I have a ritual for every new opera discovered by me. If i don't know who the composer is, i read about him first. Then i do a research about recording recommendations. Then i read the music comentaries in several sources, then the synopsis, then the libretto, then i hear the opera, then i read again about information about pivotal sections and go back again to the opera, and hear it again for several times, then i try to analyse the plot (or do some research again) until i know enough about this opera.

Because i like it so much, i started to learn how to read music and play piano. I hope someday play something. This is a long term project. I hope someday to play Tristan's prelude. (and i love IMSLP)


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

sospiro said:


> That's a great story DG! I'm so happy for you that you started your journey when you were young. It takes me a long time to learn a new (new to me) opera and I wish I'd started when I was younger.


Well nowadays I find it takes longer... I don't have that much time there are other things that also have to be done. Also, there is more in music than opera, which I also love to explore. It always is a great feeling when I discover something new, and when I connect with it.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

dionisio said:


> We have much in common!
> 
> Since i was little my father took me to every concert there was in my hometown (Madeira Island, Portugal). I'd never seen, though, an opera because there's no such place for that. I have always been familiar with what normally people call Classical music.
> 
> ...


This is so nice to read. We also have in common that we are both new on TC forum ! I guess we all have those pieces or aria's where we took of exploring opera. Nessun Dorma has such a powerful melody, too bad it gets all this bad media attention nowadays. For me it's the commendatore scene of Don Giovanni. I saw it on Amadeus (which is by the way a GREAT movie, there must be some threads here). I was immediately drawn to this piece, but a whole opera was just to much for me, that came later.

When I first started liking music so much, I also became a little obsessive, it took al the time I had  I also teached myself to read music and then I wanted to learn to play the piano, which I did en enjoyed and still do. What I really love doing is downloading the piano score of an opera and play through some of the arias, and when no one is near, I sing 

There is a lot I still have to discover, especially Wagner. All in good time.


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## peeknocker (Feb 14, 2012)

Like many, my first exposure to opera was as a child in the 70s when I was taken to see Humperdinck's "Hänsel und Gretel."
That definitely initiated my interest in opera. Afterwards, I would watch with my parents an opera on PBS whenever one would be broadcast with subtitles. But it was actually my reading Dostoevsky's "House of the Dead" that lead to my buying a copy of the Janacek's opera when I spotted it in a CD shop in the late 80s. I remember the thrill of intently listening to the CD whilst reading the accompanying libretto. I did the same with the Schubert song cycles. As an adult, I had the good fortune to see Nicolae Bretan's one act opera "The Golem" and Leoš Janáček's "Kata Kabanova" while visiting Prague in 1990. I even trekked to his former house in Brno (now a museum) and placed flowers on his grave. I have had a continuous interest in opera ever since.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

> Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?


I have been into classical music forever, but have only very recently started to enjoy opera. Up until the last month or two I have ignored opera almost totally.



> How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?


There is nowhere where I live to go to see opera, so it is irrelevant to my appreciation of the genre.



> What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?


I don't love any opera yet. Wagner has been my introduction: I have enjoyed orchestral music from 'The Ring' for years, but crossed the line via a 2-disc set of highlights from the Solti Ring (and also via Anne Russell's extraordinary and very funny description of the 'The Ring'). Then I found the complete Neuhold set for £3 at a car-boot sale and so the first opera I have ever listened to complete was 'Das Rheingold'.



> Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?


No, but I am looking forward to listening to a lot of music from composers I already love such as Shostakovich, Britten and Prokofiev as well as hearing for the first time music from composers I have never listened to such as Puccini.



> Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?


No, unfortunately. My listening is always solitary.



> Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?


As mentioned above, I am looking forward to exploring Puccini. On the other hand, wild horses couldn't drag me anywhere near Gilbert & Sullivan!


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## Pamina (Sep 5, 2012)

Hello all, I am new here but here is my story (using the questions from the OP):

_Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?_:
I grew up in a non-musical, non-artistic family (so I am the only one who likes opera, theatre, classical music, ballets, painting etc). I didn't know what classical music even was until high school! Same goes for opera (I discovered it in choir class in high school--I took it because I needed an elective and had liked to sing in church, but I had no music background). So I discovered classical instrumental music at the same time as opera. I liked both but really connected with opera because of the words, characters and the stories.

_How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?_ :
I started out listening to a lot of recordings, whatever I could get my hands on at the library or pick up cheap in a store. But once I definitely got to see one live (Rigoletto at the Washington National Opera in DC. had to beg my mother to take me! and she hated it...), I knew I wanted to see more!

_What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_: 
My first favorite was "Le Nozze di Figaro". Mozart was my first favorite composer, probably because what first exposed me to it was the movie Amadeus (we watched in high school choir). the opera scenes in that blew me away (when I heard the Queen of the Night for the first time, I had no idea a soprano could sing that high!). from Mozart it was a quick jump to Verdi, Puccini, Rossini and Donizetti.

_Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?_:
would definitely say that over the last twenty years or so I have definitely branched out. I disliked Philip Glass the first time I heard his music (Met premier broadcast of "The Voyage" in 1992). When the Met did Satyagraha for the first time a few years ago, I was skeptical, but I decided to give it a listen on the radio and found that I loved it. Later went back and re-listened to The Voyage and I appreciated it a lot more. same goes for other composers I didn't readily take to in the beginning--R. Strauss, Berg, Schoenberg, and Britten. Wagner was also an acquired taste (except for the Ring, I liked that right away).

_Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? 
_: I never really had any friends that were into opera, and my family isn't. My husband has actually gone to a few with me (he's not crazy about listening to them, but attending live where he can see what is going on onstage, he likes that--he loved Rigoletto and Carmen and his favorite Met opera is the Julie Taymor Zauberflote.) it is nice to have him to go with me at times.I wish I had more friends who like opera. but I guess that's what this community is for! 

_Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? _: I think I want to listen to more Russian and Slavic works as well as some of the less familiar French repertoire.

And, if you've liked opera for some years:

_Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?_:
My advice would be to try it, you might like it. Don't be afraid or intimidated by it. start with catchy lighter works, preferably some with familiar stories and be open minded and willing to let the composer, librettist, singers, etc take you on a journey. you will find it worth the ride!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Welcome Pamina. Nice story. Like you I started with Mozart and the Italians and have grown to love others - particularly Britten who is now one of my personal top 10. My latest love is Death in Venice.

My favourite Russian opera composers are Tchaikovsky (Eugene Onegin, of course, but also Pique Dame, Mazeppa and Iolanta); Prokofiev (War and Peace, Love for three oranges, The Gambler, Betrothal in a Monastery) and Rimsky Korsakov ( the Tsar's Bride, Le Coq d'Or, the Legend of the invisible city of Kitezh, and the Snow Maiden). I'm also devoted to Shostakovich's Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Pamina said:


> _What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?_:
> My first favorite was "Le Nozze di Figaro". Mozart was my first favorite composer, probably because what first exposed me to it was the movie Amadeus (we watched in high school choir). the opera scenes in that blew me away (when I heard the Queen of the Night for the first time, I had no idea a soprano could sing that high!).


That sounds familiar  Same happened to me ! That movie has done many good things for classical music appreciation. I also saw it in high school, and I can still remember how big an impression it made on me.

Did you also like Amadeus as a movie ? I did, and still do.


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## Sandy (Dec 23, 2009)

Thank you Dakota for the link to on-line opera stations. I must admit that I am spoiled rotten when my kids bought me a satellite radio hooked up to the N.Y, Metropolitican Opera station. There are other stations, but not for me. I lived through years of Elvis when I married a man with a high school son. I tried to listen. I have two daughters who put me through "The Greatful Dead" with many 78s and a live performance from the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. I came out of that performance silently screaming for instant death. Nothing should sound like that! My younger girl had better taste and played light classical stuff. 

I moved back to California and the kids added two extra speakers that pick up opera from the computer. The only problem is that there is a time space putting my original satellite receiver several seconds ahead of the speakers. My radio is in my office, one speaker in the kitchen and the other in the bedroom. It works when I listen first in the office and then slowly walk through the kitchen in to the bedroom. I keep the satellite on opera only. 

The system of listening to Opera has spoiled me. I have a television that plays DVDs and is small enough to move from one room to the other. My collection of opera DVDs is pretty good. For Christmas my kids bought me the Wagner Ring that had been on NPR and was thrilling with a great cast under the production of Robert Lepage. This was the last opera conducted by Levine and the sound is terrific. Bryn Terfel's Wotan is a joy to watch and Deborah Voigt did some fabulous acting as Bruhilde. The design of the opera is more circus than art but is fun to watch. The TV that plays DVDs is laughed at by my friends until they hear the reception of the sound. 

I live alone and please only myself when it comes to opera.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

My parents would undoubtedly have sympathized with you. My sister and I went through a period in the '60s of listening to the latest rock groups -- Beatles, Monkees, Herman's Hermits, and the rest of the menagerie. Fortunately, kids do grow up -- and yours sound like wonderful people.


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## musicican (Mar 7, 2013)

nefigah said:


> _Forgive me if such a thread has been posted before--if so, and you've already shared in it, please do link!_
> 
> I would be quite curious to learn of others' journey/experiences/progression with regard to opera.
> 
> ...


I think you could have added more interesting questions.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Instead of being critical why don't you ask some of these "more interesting questions"?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Sonata said:


> Instead of being critical why don't you ask some of these "more interesting questions"?


Seconded.

And these basic questions have provoked a wide variety of answers which give us insight into the opera journey of our fellow TC opera lovers.

Feel free to add to them.


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## davidsannderson (Aug 7, 2016)

I used to listen to Friday Night at the Opera on the radio. I had just gotten into classical music.
Oh, the memories.
They had the annual Ring Cycle month, and I HAD to go out and get a Ring Cycle. When I got there- glory of glories- they had an entire Wagner box- all the great Operas- for only about 60$!
I was in Heaven.
Electra, Salome and Hansel und Gretel naturally followed.
Later I got really into Italian Romantic Opera (Verdi and Puccini), but German Mythic Opera (especially late Wagner, Salome, Electra and Hansel and Gretel), Mussorgsky and Mozart are my greatest Opera loves.
I wish I had the opportunity to attend live performances, but I am in Heaven anyway. In any case, those modern re-stagings would ruin it for me.


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

I have been reading this long thread off and on for the last week or so, learning a lot while being entertained and enlightened by everyone's stories. I figure the least I can do is join in - especially since I never did an "introduce yourself" thread in the main board.

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

I didn't grow up around opera or classical music much at all. I did play trombone in stage and jazz band in middle school, but that was all over by 9th grade. My first exposure to opera was around 12th grade. Our Humanities class took us on a field trip to see Madame Butterfly. We spent a few days studying the libretto and learning all about what we were going to see. I remember liking it, but I was a high school kid more concerned with the pretty girls in my class than what was happening in front of me on stage.

Also, my best friend's mom collected soprano CDs. She would be blasting Bartoli and Te Kanawa and the like while cooking, and we always secretly made fun of her. Not an auspicious beginning.

(BTW, I wasn't scared of music and the stage -- I have loved broadway musicals since the first time I saw _Phantom _in high school, followed not long after by _Crazy For You_. Sadly, the only show I have seen on broadway is _Wicked _in 2004 - but that was pretty danged awesome.)

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? *

Some years later, my local opera house was putting on _Das Rheingold_. I knew nothing about it except it was supposed to be amazing and overwhelming. On a whim, I bought a ticket and saw it. I loved it. The music was overwhelming, in all the best ways. It didn't create an obsession with opera then, but it laid the foundation.

The third and last opera I have seen live was in Los Angeles around 2007 - it was _Manon Lescaut_, which I think starred Netrebko. I had bought one of her CDs. She was famous and beautiful and all the rage back then.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

It's only recently that I have been bitten by the bug properly. A revisit of the _Tannhauser _prelude was just about all it took, along with a viewing of *Wagner and Me*. I haven't properly dug into Wagner yet, but I have been watching and listening to a lot of Strauss, and it's been blowing my mind. The Trio in _Der Rosenkavalier_. . .that was the true beginning.

So: Wagner and Strauss.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

I am too new to properly answer that question. But I can say that based on my lifelong love of *Amadeus*, I would have thought it'd be Mozart's work that hooked me on opera first. Not so.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? *

Nope. That's why I spend so much time on this forum. 

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? *

All of it.

*And, if you've liked opera for some years:

Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*

Dead Heads have a saying: You don't find the Grateful Dead; the Grateful Dead finds you. That's how it worked for me and the Dead's music - after 20 years of trying off and on, one day it just clicked for me. Opera is the same way. I liked it okay ever since that first viewing around 1991. But despite trying off and on for 20+ years, it never clicked. Then one day, it did. Now I can't get enough.

So my advice such as it is: Keep an open mind, and try stuff now and then. You never know what will one day flip the switch.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

^^ scopitone

Very interesting and very entertaining.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

I can only say: WOW scopitone. :tiphat:


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

Yup, I can write long posts when I want to do. :lol:

This really is a great thread - I don't even know how I found it, but I am glad I read it all.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Scopitone said:


> Dead Heads have a saying: You don't find the Grateful Dead; the Grateful Dead finds you. That's how it worked for me and the Dead's music - after 20 years of trying off and on, one day it just clicked for me. Opera is the same way. I liked it okay ever since that first viewing around 1991. But despite trying off and on for 20+ years, it never clicked. Then one day, it did. Now I can't get enough.


* I don't blame you if you don't want to read all this crap, but here goes... *

Funny you mentioning the Dead. Similar to opera, my interest wasn't peaked for several decades, then it clicked. Everything has its place in time. The thing is, there's an awful lot of music in the world, and if you really want to delve into the full history of jazz, rock, blues, classical, and spend a lot of time listening to all of the great artists and their works, it takes a lifetime of effort.

Although I've been listening to classical music for about 34 years, my interest has intensified over the last five. And I decided to try a few operas about three or four years ago. My first two operas were Prince Igor, and Boris Godunov. I don't remember which one I listened to first? But I've always loved the Prince Igor excerpts that are found on Borodin CDs, so I knew about the opera for quite a while. I've owned a copy of the Tjeknavorian RCA album for a long time.

I've never been to a live performance, so it obviously has no influence on my recent interest. In fact, I'll admit to being rather undisciplined in my approach to opera. I am most interested in the effect and pleasure the music and singing alone brings to the listener. I really don't have much interest in the fairy tales and sordid plots of many of the great operas. So I don't read the libretto. But I do at least read the synopsis. And I don't watch DVDs. I'm totally satisfied with the aural experience.

My tastes in opera are broadening this year. For some reason I avoided most of the famous German and Italian operas in the past few years, but now I am listening to R Strauss, Wagner, and Verdi. The hardest thing is to find the time to really listen and absorb these works to the extent that they demand. It's much easier to absorb a short tone poem or a jazz record.

I have zero friends that listen to opera. I just don't travel in those kinds of social circles. I'm a working class stiff, so I don't hob nob with the opera or polo crowd. The people I know drink cheap beer and listen to the Allman Brothers. I like the Allmans too, but not cheap beer!

As far as opera styles yet to explore? I really haven't listened to anything earlier than 19th century with the exception of Gluck. I have the Gluck Great Operas box, which I need to spend more time with.

My only advice is that if you want to listen to a bunch of operas and you have a small budget, check your library, your local classical radio station, and youtube. If you want to buy CDs, you can pick up many beautiful opera sets super cheap if you buy them second hand. And you can get the deluxe editions with slipcase and libretto for under five dollars in many cases. And I can tell you from experience that many of these are in mint condition. I have quite a few beautiful editions that cost me only 3 or 4 dollars, so there's no need to spend 25 or 30 on a new copy. Happy listening!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Like most people I wasn't brought up with classical music or opera in the home, but my family liked music in general and my mother played the piano in church, where I started singing as an alto in the choir. I improvised harmony to the hymns and could play things by ear at the piano, and when I began to hear classical music on TV or records I knew it was meant for me.

My great grandparents left behind a few 78rpms of opera singers, and I loved that kind of music and singing, so when I got hold of some complete opera recordings and piano reductions of scores from the library I jumped right into the deep end of the pool. I checked out scores of Wagner's _Ring_, _Tristan_, _Parsifal_ and _Meistersinger_, and worked laboriously through them at the piano, savoring every magical chord change, learning how harmony worked from the master. My father complained about all the morbid stuff I was playing and wanted to know where the melody was, but what did he know anyway? When I'd play the recordings he'd gripe about the screaming women, but my mother would listen from the kitchen and marvel at her son's wonderful music and cry when Birgit Nilsson awakened to Siegfried's kiss or Maria Callas prayed to the moon goddess.

When I got to college I studied voice and soon worked as a tenor soloist at a local church. I went on listening to all the classical music and opera I could get my hands on, and the years went by. Most of them have gone by now, and they've gone mostly to music - a good place for them, I think. I still love opera and the human voice functioning at its uttermost capacity for beauty and drama, and Wagner in particular - that impossible, glorious little monster - remains a bosom companion. Putting my thoughts about him in writing, as I do here, is deeply satisfying, and feels, in a way, like repaying him slightly for a priceless gift. I guess that's what's called "paying it forward."


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

starthrower said:


> * I don't blame you if you don't want to read all this crap, but here goes... *
> 
> Funny you mentioning the Dead. Similar to opera, my interest wasn't peaked for several decades, then it clicked. Everything has its place in time. The thing is, there's an awful lot of music in the world, and if you really want to delve into the full history of jazz, rock, blues, classical, and spend a lot of time listening to all of the great artists and their works, it takes a lifetime of effort.


The sheer volume of material in opera alone - much less other classical genres - is enough to scare one off. As you say, it's a lifetime study. In the end, if you want to know music intimately, you have to pick and choose. That's always been my difficulty. :lol:


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Putting my thoughts about him in writing, as I do here, is deeply satisfying, and feels, in a way, like repaying him slightly for a priceless gift. I guess that's what's called "paying it forward."


Indeed. That kind of enthusiasm born from years of study and exposure is contagious, I promise you.


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## davidsannderson (Aug 7, 2016)

Scopitone said:


> *And, if you've liked opera for some years:
> 
> Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*
> 
> ...


That's a wonderful observation. Now that I think of it, I have discovered just about all of my favorite music that way, including the Dead, Opera in general, Wagner, Verdi/Puccini, and classical in general. And other stuff, like Tolkien.
Some things, like Wagner, click immediately, while others, like my latest discovery, Berlioz, take a long time, but the music does seem to find ME.
(You'd think that Berlioz would click immediately for a Wagner-lover, but then, if we understood how it works it wouldn't have the same magic, would it?)
Thank you for the insight.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

davidsannderson said:


> That's a wonderful observation. Now that I think of it, I have discovered just about all of my favorite music that way, including the Dead, Opera in general, Wagner, Verdi/Puccini, and classical in general. And other stuff, like Tolkien.
> Thank you for the insight.


Keep exploring, the opera world is full of wonders, dead and ....love .


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## Anna Viola (Aug 28, 2016)

My opera journey started on a whim. I saw the recording of La Bohème lying on the library shelf, picked it up and thought to myself: ” I guess this is an opera. Let's try it!” I was ten years old, too young to have any prejudices against opera. I had no idea of what La Bohème was about, but I loved the music. For me, opera wasn't an acquired taste, I loved it from the very beginning. 

I soon proceeded to explore further. Alas, it was quite slow, there was no internet yet, so I had only the few opera recordings at the local library, radio and occasional visits to the Opera House in Helsinki. I would buy a cd set of an opera when I could afford it, but they were expensive, so I had to think really hard which one to choose. In my early twenties, I was an au pair girl in Vienna, and there I had the chance to visit Vienna State Opera almost weekly, thanks to the standing room tickets. It was great!

My tastes haven't changed in any dramatic way. My first favourite opera was La Bohème (not a surprise) but Le Nozze di Figaro soon outshone it. Maybe the biggest surprise was falling in love with L'Incoronazione di Poppea. I had tried to get into it several times, and as I finally managed to plow through it, I was totally overwhelmed by its beauty and drama.

I still have a lot to explore. My opera knowledge is... kind of patchy. There are famous operas ( like the Ring, for example) I don't know at all, and obscure operas I know quite well (like Massenet's Chérubin). I have rarely explored anything outside my comfort zone... because it's entertainment! Not something you should cram and study... but on the other hand, if you never explore anything new, aren't you in danger of missing something great? I think I should try to be more adventurous... Maybe it's now time for the Ring...


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Anna Viola said:


> My opera journey started on a whim. I saw the recording of La Bohème lying on the library shelf, picked it up and thought to myself: " I guess this is an opera. Let's try it!" I was ten years old, too young to have any prejudices against opera. I had no idea of what La Bohème was about, but I loved the music. For me, opera wasn't an acquired taste, I loved it from the very beginning.


Great post. 

So your love of opera started quite by chance! Do you ever look back and think "I'm so glad I pick up that copy of La Bohème"?



Anna Viola said:


> I soon proceeded to explore further. Alas, it was quite slow, there was no internet yet, so I had only the few opera recordings at the local library, radio and occasional visits to the Opera House in Helsinki. I would buy a cd set of an opera when I could afford it, but they were expensive, so I had to think really hard which one to choose. *In my early twenties, I was an au pair girl in Vienna, and there I had the chance to visit Vienna State Opera almost weekly, thanks to the standing room tickets*. It was great!


Oh my, what an opportunity!! I've read about these tickets, it's a great view from there and far better than the view from 'standing' in ROH.



Anna Viola said:


> My tastes haven't changed in any dramatic way. My first favourite opera was La Bohème (not a surprise) but Le Nozze di Figaro soon outshone it. Maybe the biggest surprise was falling in love with L'Incoronazione di Poppea. I had tried to get into it several times, and as I finally managed to plow through it, I was totally overwhelmed by its beauty and drama.
> 
> I still have a lot to explore. My opera knowledge is... kind of patchy. There are famous operas ( like the Ring, for example) I don't know at all, and obscure operas I know quite well (like Massenet's Chérubin). I have rarely explored anything outside my comfort zone... because it's entertainment! Not something you should cram and study... but on the other hand, if you never explore anything new, aren't you in danger of missing something great? I think I should try to be more adventurous... Maybe it's now time for the Ring...


I don't think it matters what you like or don't like. If you 'get' opera you're at home amongst other opera fans.

A few years ago a few of us from the forum decided to meet up in London and see Les Troyens. I didn't know it and was in despair after listening to it for the first time. I even messaged one of the group to say I'd meet them but no way was I going to sit through 4½ hours of _that_!! I did persevere with it though in secret and eventually I totally fell in love with it.

Good luck on the rest of your journey.


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## Isolde121 (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi everyone, I'm new to this lovely forum and this is my first post ever:lol: greetings from Hong Kong!

How I started listening to opera is kind of an embarrassing story actually.. During my university entrance examinations I read an article online that listening to classical music can make you music, and at that time I was very desperate and just decided to try it. I first tried listening to Carmen and fell in love with it immediately. In my opinion Carmen is the most accessible opera ever and will definitely recommend it to non-opera lovers as a first opera.

During my study break I would listen to Carmen for 3-4 times a day non-stop (for 2-3 months!). Then I decided I wanted to try something new and tried Die Zauberflöte, but absolutely hated it back then. Then I listened to more Verdi, Puccini, and Wagner.

Definitely my taste is changing everyday and my favorite today is Tristan und Isolde. I have a very long list of operas that I want to explore.

I am really disappointed that all of my peers are put off by the idea of opera, because I desperately want to share the wonderful music with my friends.

Now the top of my bucket list (or the only item) is going to the Met, but at this point in my life this is quite impossible as my holidays are june to august, right between 2 Met seasons. So, no luck


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Isolde121 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to this lovely forum and this is my first post ever:lol: greetings from Hong Kong!
> 
> How I started listening to opera is kind of an embarrassing story actually.. During my university entrance examinations I read an article online that listening to classical music can make you music, and at that time I was very desperate and just decided to try it. I first tried listening to Carmen and fell in love with it immediately. In my opinion Carmen is the most accessible opera ever and will definitely recommend it to non-opera lovers as a first opera.
> 
> ...


What a lovely story, and a very warm welcome to Talk Classical.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I still love opera and the human voice functioning at its uttermost capacity for beauty and drama, and Wagner in particular - that impossible, glorious little monster - remains a bosom companion. *Putting my thoughts about him in writing, as I do here, is deeply satisfying, and feels, in a way, like repaying him slightly for a priceless gift.* I guess that's what's called "paying it forward."


Your thoughts on Wagner are deeply satisfying to those who read them as well - I am sure I am not the only one who finds them both interesting and edifying. Just curious about something: do you speak German? Or is it only classical-Wagnerian German?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Your thoughts on Wagner are deeply satisfying to those who read them as well - I am sure I am not the only one who finds them both interesting and edifying. Just curious about something: do you speak German? Or is it only classical-Wagnerian German?


Thank you for the nice words. Most of my knowledge of German comes from music, so I'm afraid that if I ever attempted to speak it I would be mistaken for a Nibelung.


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## russetvelvet (Oct 14, 2016)

Hello everybody, I joined this forum not very long ago in order to read your scintillating discussions This is going to be my first post.

My opera journey started the moment I entered the world of classical music 13 years ago. For a 16-year-old college freshman there were lots of new things in life to explore, so the reason for which I picked something as introspective as classical music to start with is very difficult to recall now; but my mind got hooked immediately. The several secondhand CDs bought from a senior completely replaced the pop albums I used to listen to all the time. Just like to many novices who made the same transition from pop to classical, my first love was (of course!) a collection of selected arias: after all, the length and singing form were both relatively familiar, and their melodies accessible. 

That miscellaneous disc is comprised from lyrical arias by Mozart, who remains my favourite composer. I would listen to them night and day, that in the end I could remember a large part of the libretto phonetically. But still it seemed too daunting to assault a 3-hour opera in a foreign language with lots of insipid (at that time, to me) recitatives, as back then I simply lacked the patience and would only enjoy things lighter and less symphonic, mainly chamber music. That was until Mahler's symphonies and orchestral songs suddenly captured me and led me back to the vocal art; also almost around the same time I happened to watch my first opera DVD - the 1994 ROH version of La Traviata, and got blown away. Then I went back in a frenzy and bought all the Mozart opera DVDs available and devoured them one by one, which was a revealing experience: finally the familiar arias made sense as they started to come together in a context! One gets to be thankful for such re-revelations. Mozart's music is sublime enough without narratives, but becomes even more with them.

I still think Mozart is the ultimate master of subtlety and balance, yet by and by I also learnt to appreciate works more dramatic and in a good sense, extreme. (On a side note: is it just me or does Mozart's operas perhaps lack a definitive tenor role? Ferrando, Tamino and Belmonte all have very fine moments but there seems to be few grand emotional bursts.) So my taste is still shifting back and forth, one day I would go back to listen to Handel, the next writhe myself with sweet bitterness in Puccini, yet another day absorb the total drama in Verdi...hopefully I'll get Wagner soon! Right now my staple food is Richard Strauss, especially Ariadne auf Naxos, it's funny, oddly but nonetheless delicately orchestrated, and with great arias that I would like to learn one day.

Speaking of which, I consider myself lucky that I have friends in real life to talk about operas with, since earlier this year I finally resolved to take a classical vocal class at an oh-not-so-green age, as well as Italian by myself...:-D Both my teacher and the other pupil would not stop once we started a discussion. It's been a great complement and enhancement to the listening experiences. So this will be my advice to opera beginners: listen and enjoy, and if you can, learn to sing what you like!


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

russetvelvet said:


> Hello everybody, I joined this forum not very long ago in order to read your scintillating discussions This is going to be my first post.
> 
> My opera journey started the moment I entered the world of classical music 13 years ago. For a 16-year-old college freshman there were lots of new things in life to explore, so the reason for which I picked something as introspective as classical music to start with is very difficult to recall now; but my mind got hooked immediately. The several secondhand CDs bought from a senior completely replaced the pop albums I used to listen to all the time. Just like to many novices who made the same transition from pop to classical, my first love was (of course!) a collection of selected arias: after all, the length and singing form were both relatively familiar, and their melodies accessible.
> 
> ...


Hello russetvelvet, and welcome to the forum ! I enjoyed reading your journey story, i recognize a lot of it in my own journey. Are you also attending live performances ?

In Mozart's time tenors were not as we know them now, they sang with a very different technique, and also there were still the castrato's around. This is the reason there are not so many parts around in Mozart opera. Maybe the most passionate tenor parts are for Don Ottavio from Don Giovanni.


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## russetvelvet (Oct 14, 2016)

Hi Dongiovanni, thanks for your reply! You are of course one of my favourite operas and Don Ottavio is a lovely character I searched a bit about the evolution of tenors after reading your post, and was very surpised to find that before 1830s all the high notes were not sung in full voice, that explains the characterization of tenors. A BBC documentary links castrati voices to countertenors that are still here nowadays, e.g.: 



 Very impressive!

Unfortunately I'm yet to listen to a live performance - I live in China and performances here are not that many. Hopefully it'll change in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

My sister was one of the very few opera singers from Mississippi and I initially got into it that way. I was obsessed with opera in middle school and high school. I grew away from it in college and up until I was 31 and moved to Seattle. I did massage and a couple of clients of mine who were older gentlemen resparked my interest and got me going to opera again. I can't believe Sutherland came to Atlanta when I was there and I passed it up, but I was more into disco at the time. Now it is my passion and I have done probably 20 opera appreciation talks to my Toastmasters clubs that have been received very positively. I have one opera buddy, but most of my connection is here in this forum and increasingly on the Facebook Opera Fan Clubs, where I get up to 60 likes on an essay I post. I used to like only excerpts from Wagner but now I appreciate whole Wagnerian operas. I have become a big fan of countertenors. I also have gotten more into male voices. I used to be only about the women.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My sister was one of the very few opera singers from Mississippi and I initially got into it that way. I was obsessed with opera in middle school and high school. I grew away from it in college and up until I was 31 and moved to Seattle. I did massage and a couple of clients of mine who were older gentlemen resparked my interest and got me going to opera again. I can't believe Sutherland came to Atlanta when I was there and I passed it up, but I was more into disco at the time. Now it is my passion and I have done probably 20 opera appreciation talks to my Toastmasters clubs that have been received very positively. I have one opera buddy, but most of my connection is here in this forum and increasingly on the Facebook Opera Fan Clubs, where I get up to 60 likes on an essay I post. I used to like only excerpts from Wagner but now I appreciate whole Wagnerian operas. I have become a big fan of countertenors. I also have gotten more into male voices. I used to be only about the women.


And you put some wonderful speeches on this site.:tiphat:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

I grew up with opera, but it wasn't until a decade ago that I got heavily into it.

Looking back, I can see that the seeds had been sown for full-blown opera mania sometime in childhood. Classical music was never anything alien. My parents enjoyed it, so it was always somewhere in the background. Before I'd gone to pre-school, I knew who Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev were; liked listening to Levine's recording of Mahler's 3rd (partly because the LP had animals on the cover); and had seen Joan Sutherland singing on television.

I grew up in Brussels; my parents went to performances at La Monnaie, and talked about productions of _Arabella_, _L'Italiana in Algeri_, _Pelléas et Mélisande_, _Khovanshchina_ and _Fledermaus _they'd seen. Their friends talked about music. Detective writers (Conan Doyle, Chesterton and Agatha Christie) talked about music, opera and theater. Going to opera was what adults _did_.

I listened to _Rheingold_ and probably _Walküre_ when I was 7, as one does, because I was into mythology.[*] I watched the BBC broadcast of _Pique Dame_ at Christmas 1993. I'd listen to opera CDs (the usual - Wagner, Gluck, Bizet, Moniuszko) or classical music recordings (Stravinsky's _Firebird_, I remember).

[*] As well as Greek mythology, I was reading Shakespeare in fourth grade, and sat enthralled through RSC productions on trips to the UK. I was _that _kid. (Or possibly the reincarnation of Wagner, who must atone for his ingratitude to Meyerbeer by championing French opera.)

The first live opera I saw was Gounod's _Faust_ (Sydney 1998) and Rossini's _Barber _(in English). I loved both, and borrowed videos of opera productions from my English teacher. It wasn't until Year 12 (2001), though, that I discovered Mozart (through the Losey _Don Giovanni_) and Rossini. About that time, I listened to some Verdi (Toscanini LPs). Five years later (2006), the Australian ABC's Classic FM 100 Countdown sparked interest. I discovered Wagner and Verdi, and started going to the opera regularly.

The next year, I discovered Meyerbeer. I watched the DVD of the Sydney _Huguenots_, and was floored. Here was a composer who was supposed to be second-rate, whose operas were obscure - and yet _Huguenots_ was extraordinary. The melodic genius of Mozart or Rossini, the drama of Verdi, and the serious themes of Wagner (world-historical and social rather than psychological). I visited the Meyerbeer Fan Club site (now apparently defunct) and learnt that he had dominated stages worldwide in the 19th century. That opened up a world. What other opera composers had written first-rate music but vanished from the stage?

So to those newly embarking on a similar journey, I say:
For God's sake, don't limit yourself to the warhorses! Don't think that Puccini and Verdi (or even Mozart) are the be-all and end-all of opera! Don't listen only to a composer's most famous works! Explore, listen, and make up your own mind!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I really don't know a damn thing about opera. I just started buying some CDs and listening to them. Right now I'm listening to Parsifal conducted by Herbert Kegel. It's a great sounding live recording from 1975, and it contains some of the most beautiful music I've heard so far. It's on Brilliant Classics, and as usual it's a fantastic value for the super low price. I also picked up Kegel's Wozzeck.

I really like Janacek's operas too. I recommend the excellent Decca 9 CD box by Mackerras.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se?*

My parents played some classical music records when I was young. I liked some of it; I remember being annoyed when anyone would turn down Bolero as it inevitably got louder. But once I started buying music for myself it was pop/rock.
Then one summer during college I stayed at a friend's house while they were out of town and listened to every CD they had. One was the Kleiber Beethoven's 5th and 7th. I had heard these symphonies before, but never like this. I realized that conductors and orchestras mattered, and was off.
I collected some opera in this time, but it was mostly overtures and other instrumental excerpts. Opera as a whole had not clicked and thus I only occasionally listened.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration?*

I saw a few performances from Arizona Opera. They were fine, but did not grab me. Once I moved to NYC I was drawn for the lottery for Satayagraha and was blown away. 6 weeks later I saw Lawrence Brownlee in La fille du regiment and was completely hooked. Somewhere in that time I started to want to see everything I could.

That desire remains, and I try to see as much live operas as I can, and my love for opera keeps being rekindled. I look at upcoming seasons to help guide my operatic exploration.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre?*

I have two, distinct answers. When I was young opera seemed very old fashioned and dull. I know I saw a little bit on PBS, but I was distracted by the period clothing, wigs, that to me signified boring and out of touch.

Then one day looking through classical CDs I saw a used copy of Nixon In China. This blew my mind: an opera, written about something that happened just a few years before I was born. (In this period, I also saw copies of The Death of Klinghoffer, which was based on events even more recent but I mistook for something of mythic legend). I didn't buy it that day, and when I went back to the shop determined to it was no longer available so it took a while for me to actually purchase the CD set, but the idea that opera was alive and vibrant started to sink in and combat all the ridiculous wigs.

La traviata was one of the early operas I saw in Arizona; that might have been the full opera I listened to most frequently. But it was the music of Wagner that was most seductive and would not let me give up. I got my father into opera, and he got more hooked than I did. I bougth him the Chereau Ring and he loved it. I only saw some of it, and found it very compelling, and it helped me realize that I needed to watch opera to appreciate it.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways?*

I generally ignored Donizetti and Rossini until I started to regularly see opera live, wanting to stick with "serious" opera, mostly listening to Wagner, Berg, Shostakovich, and such. After seeing La fille du regiment and enjoying it so much I realized what joys were available there. I still don't find operatic comedies funny, really (though there can be some stagings that are funny).
It wasn't until I separately got accustomed to early music that I had much patience for opera of the 16th and early 17th century; now it's something I seek out. At one time, I intensely disliked Richard Strauss; now he's one of my favorite opera composers (the change was due to, as with opera in general, taking the time to focus on his operas).

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera?*

My spouse is a theater fan, and while she is more into Broadway-style musicals and plays, she will see and appreciates some opera as theater. She generally doesn't really care for the music.
There are local opera fans I have met by seeing them repeatedly while attending operas and via social media.

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore?*

Right now I am most excited about post-Wagnerian works, including symbolism and early modernism. Late Massenet (which is barely post-Wagnerian) to Pfitzner, Schrecker, and Hindemith. Verismo is on the list of things I'm not that interested in exploring, but perhaps the intersection with the above might prove fruitful. Alternatively, perhaps an exceptional performance of something will convince me.

*Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*

I remember as a young adult seeing someone reading a book of opera plots. They were reading it as comedy, in a 'look at all these bizarre, mixed-up happenings!' This really fit in with my preconceived notion of opera as ridiculous and not worthwhile. What I didn't realize that the value in opera is, generally, not about the plot. And sure, wacky things happen, but they are often contrivances intended to generate distinctive emotional situations that can be expressed via arias, ensembles, and orchestral writing.

But also, that's just some operas; there are other types that are less wild and more human (though something I'm learning reading here, we may disagree on which operas are the silly ones with ridiculous plots). Similarly, opera has a history of over 400 years and has an incredible range. There are all types of operas: some are short, some are modern, some have giant casts and huge choruses, others have just one or two soloists.

And finally, opera is theater. Opera was conceived as theater, and the vast majority of operas throughout history have been written to be performed as theater. Watch it as much as you can; these works were meant to be seen. Opera, especially when you are exploring a new work, rewards attention. Opera houses (and even cinema-broadcasts) are great places to focus on opera. But when those are not practical, you can watch DVDs and streamed video.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

*Was there a time in your life you didn't care for opera at all? Similarly, was there a time when you were "into" classical music, but not opera per se? *

Yep! My step-dad got me into classical music, but he never listened to opera. He namely listened to Tchaikovsky. Laugh all you want, but it wasn't until I saw the film "Pretty Woman" that my discovery of opera began. I thought the music when he showed up in the limo was the most beautiful thing I had ever heard. As soon as it was out on VHS (LOL) I rented it and went straight to the credits to find out what that piece was. I immediately ran to the record store and bought Vivaldi's _Four Seasons_. It is now one of my favorite pieces, but boy was I disappointed. Back to the credits. This time running to the record store in hopes that it was _La Traviata_. That's where it began. Where it became a passion was after seeing _Amadeus_. I did movie nights with three other friends and we rotated bringing movies. On her night, my friend brought _Amadeus_. My first thought was f*uck. This was 1996. I was more interested in pop music and musical theater at that time, than I was in classical music. I thought I was going to be bored out of my mind. At the end of the night, my mind was blown. I was in love, with Mozart's music. A passion began, especially with regards to opera.

*How important was/(is) live performance attendance to your appreciation of opera? Was a live performance a catalyst for further exploration? *

Nope. I have a hard time sitting in an uncomfortable opera house for live performances. But will see Mozart and the Russians every time. I'm struggling with possibly going to SF Opera's Ring in '18, because I am a massive Ring lover, but I don't know if I can handle sitting for that long.

*What specific opera do you first recall loving? What composer "introduced" you to the genre? *

Verdi was my introduction, _Le nozze di Figaro_ was the first opera I ever loved, and it is still my favorite 21 years later. _Figaro_ turned an interest into a massive love. I have listened to it well over 1,000 times, and I swear I hear new things every time. Mozart was remarkable, and IMO _Figaro_ is the greatest of all operas, followed (ever so closely) by _Don Giovanni_.

Discovering Wagner and the Russians, were also highlights of my opera path. Even though, Wagner was far from love at first sight. I put more work into Wagner than I have ever put into any other artist in my life. It was well worth it.

*Have your tastes within the genre changed over time? In surprising ways? *

Yes. I first bought Wanger's Ring because I thought I had to have it. I thought it was the most awful thing when I first listened to it. So dull and boring. Of course, I knew the Ride of the Valkyries, but I did not like much else when I first started listening to it. Now, I'm like what the ***** was I thinking. Seriously, it's like the best rock concert for me (and I love rock n roll) when I listen to the Ring. So exciting, so powerful, so passionate. I now probably have 27 recordings of it. The Ring has opened up a further appreciation for Romantic Period opera. I no longer think Puccini is a dreadful bore, like I used to. When my fat butt went to the gym, I used to run for an hour listening to the Ring - it gave me so much energy.

*Do you have friends/a spouse (who is hopefully also your friend  ) who shares in your enjoyment of opera? *

No 

*Are there composers/styles you have yet to explore, are looking forward to exploring, or don't wish to explore? *

No. I tried the modern period, and it's like nails on a chalkboard. Renissance and Baroque are too aria heavy for my liking. I'll stick with the Classical and Romantic periods.

*Do you have anything to say to those newly embarking on a similar journey?*

1. Take the advice of those who have loved opera for a long time. The sales rep at Barnes and Noble that refused to sell me any other Carmen recording than the Callas recording opened up so many doors for me. I almost refused and bought Carmen elsewhere. Surely, I would have stumbled across Callas, but it might have been much later.

2. Explore and find out what you like, and don't let any other's opinions drag you down. Some opera buffs get hoytie-toytie. I love Gilbert & Sullivan and I don't give a blip what anyone says about their works. There is so many amazing stuff to listen to and discover, and all that should matter to you is what you like.

3. Talk with people - it's so fun to share and learn from others. I learn something new every day on this forum.


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