# Are BOX SETS a problem.....?



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

They are cheaper, in some cases remarkably cheaper than collecting 'all' individual discs. But in some cases you don't want ALL the individual discs. BUT are box sets harder to take down from the shelf and take the individual disc out to play, then just reaching for a seperate individual packaged disc.... Do we play 'box sets' less... or am I the only one with this deep psychological problem......


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Personally, I seem to prefer box sets. Record companies are cramming a lot of good music into little boxes nowadays at budget prices, so I don't feel as guilty putting money out for a box than for an individual CD. I've never been bothered by pulling a disk out of a box rather than pulling a CD off of my shelf, though I have dropped the boxes and had to put them back together, and that's a pain.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Depends on the box really. I have collected a large number of them and they are a convenient and cheap way to build a library. You're right that they often don't store so well. That complete Wagner opera collection on DG doesn't fit on the shelves. The Philips collection (minus the 3 early operas) does. When I get a boxed set I usually play straight through it - like the two recent Munch sets. Sometimes I pick up sets just to hear music I otherwise would likely never purchase - like the Hanssler 56 disk set of Mendelssohn. If I don't like some of it, what the heck, it only cost me $1.50 per disk - it's a steal. My biggest gripe is that so often when disks originally in SACD come out in boxes, they're only the standard Red Book CD layer. RCA, Bis, Tudor are all guilty of this.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

John Lenin said:


> BUT are box sets harder to take down from the shelf and take the individual disc out to play, then just reaching for a seperate individual packaged disc.... Do we play 'box sets' less... or am I the only one with this deep psychological problem......


The cumbersome mega boxes are more of a pain, which is why I don't buy them. I don't need endless repetition of standard repertoire. But I love the smaller clam shell boxes of 20 discs or less.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I've had boxed sets but never kept any other than one set of Beethoven symphonies. I have found over 50 years' collecting that no conductor or group has the key to all or much of a composer's output. There is simply too much that is mediocre by recording standards in almost any boxed set.

If I am going to buy recordings with the concept of retaining and listening to them, possibly for posterity, I want what's in my collection to be absolutely top notch. I find anything less than that isn't worth keeping -- and this is the problem I have with boxed sets. Plus they create storage problems.

For me it is much easier to search and/or listen until I find what I want, cherry pick, and download the recordings I want or buy them on CD if the CD is worth it.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

larold said:


> For me it is much easier to search and/or listen until I find what I want, cherry pick, and download the recordings I want or buy them on CD if the CD is worth it.


I'm getting spoiled by downloads. It's easier to search for a title or album on the computer than to go to my CD stack and try to find what I'm looking for, and I don't have to bother with loading and unloading discs.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

I shall answer 'yes, they are a problem', but not just for the reasons mentioned hitherto.

They make a right mess of maintaining a proper digital music catalogue!

So you buy a boxed set of Mozart's complete works: fine. It's all by Mozart, it all gets ripped and catalogued nicely. It's a bit of a pain to have to keep remembering to change the performers and recording dates, but it's mostly fine.

But if you buy a boxed set of, say, Kleiber conducting: you're going to have CDs with a symphony from 2 or 3 different composers and maybe a filler piece by a third. I mean, it's not _impossible_ to rip that neatly into three separate folders, but it's a pain to have to do for 15, 30 or more CDs at a time. I'd prefer not to do battle with 'themed' box sets like that, where the 'theme' is not the composer.

I also agree with larold that not all boxed sets are born equal. If they carefully curate a collection, fine. If they happen to license a bazillion dodgy recordings on the cheap and shove them into a single box as a 'colleciton', then: it's a collection of dodgy recordings you're unlikely to want to keep for long! My Brilliant Classics Mozart is surprisingly competent (given it was so cheap). My Brilliant Classics Bach was a good way to get into a lot of Bach very quickly... but I almost never play anything from it these days, because most of it was pretty dreadful (the Leusink cantatas are quite possibly the worst of their kind on the planet!)


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Box sets are not a problem for me! I mean, for my wallet, maybe...

As someone who started his collection with DG's Karajan "decade" box sets, I loved getting a big chunk of repertoire for a relatively small investment per disc. I have since supplemented with many smaller box sets, e.g. Complete Haydn Trios, Complete Schubert Quartets, Complete Shostakovitch Symphonies, etc. This is not to say I haven't purchased individual albums, certainly I have. I may tend to try to get individual discs as downloads instead, because the price differential for individual albums (Presto usually has FLAC downloads of single albums for $8 or so) is more favorable than with box sets vs. box set downloads (why companies try to charge $80 bucks to download a $50 box set is beyond me).

As long as you do a little research to ensure it's not a smash and grab operation with subpar recordings, box sets are a great way to build a collection, IMHO. Presto Classical generally has high quality samples of almost all of their sales catalog, so you can do some listening before you buy.

I do not have the physical issues of taking out unwieldy box sets because I rip the contents as FLAC onto my music players. I agree that this can create problems of cataloguing, depending on whether the box set is broken up by album with original album art (my strong preference) or mixed by material.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I do not have the physical issues of taking out unwieldy box sets because I rip the contents as FLAC onto my music players. I agree that this can create problems of cataloguing, depending on whether the box set is broken up by album with original album art (my strong preference) or mixed by material.


There is no such thing as an 'album' in classical music.
Discuss...


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> There is no such thing as an 'album' in classical music.
> Discuss...


I think we can confine that discussion to the other half dozen threads in which that dead horse is suffering...


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I think we can confine that discussion to the other half dozen threads in which that dead horse is suffering...


Damn. I must have missed them!


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I've rarely bought box sets - too many cd's at one time.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Damn. I must have missed them!


OK, half a dozen _might _be an exaggeration. But the issue has been exhaustively treated by you in this thread:

When you rip classical music CDs what is the order in your title?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I have multiple symphony boxsets but not many by single conductors / Composers with disparate works on as they can be too fragmented, as someone has alluded to. The ones I do have are classy, though. I have no beef with no sets unless they are badly put together or the single performances can be bought cheaper individually.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> OK, half a dozen _might _be an exaggeration. But the issue has been exhaustively treated by you in this thread:
> 
> When you rip classical music CDs what is the order in your title?


Oh well, so long as I treated it _exhaustively_. I mean, it's not like it's a trivial subject or anything! 

Anyway, I take the hint.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Like others I avoid the larger ones due to unwanted duplication. I do have a fair amount of what can be called box sets but only a few of them comprise of ten discs or more:

Solti's Ring cycle (14)
Haitink's Shostakovich (11)
Steve Reich - _Works 65-95_ (10)
Kubelik's Mahler (10)
Mozart's piano concertos - Barenboim/ECO (10)
Glenn Gould's Bach (10)


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I have a set of CPE Bach works (not including the Magnificat, unfortunately), a set of Brahms chamber music (String quartets, string quintets, string sextets, piano quintet, clarinet trio, and clarinet quintet), three Beethoven symphony cycles (Krips, Karajan '63, and Gardiner), one Beethoven string quartet cycle by Emerson, and a set of compilation CDs (I don't listen to the latter).

I've also purchased streaming sets on the now defunct* Google Play Music: The Complete Haydn String Quartets, the Complete Haydn Piano Sonatas, and Complete Bach Organ Works. However, they're poor quality. That's not important for the piano sonatas but _vital_ for the organ works.

*I was able to move the stuff over to Youtube, but that has ads that I can only remove if I get a subscription. Bah!


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

larold said:


> I've had boxed sets but never kept any other than one set of Beethoven symphonies. I have found over 50 years' collecting that no conductor or group has the key to all or much of a composer's output. There is simply too much that is mediocre by recording standards in almost any boxed set.
> 
> If I am going to buy recordings with the concept of retaining and listening to them, possibly for posterity, I want what's in my collection to be absolutely top notch. I find anything less than that isn't worth keeping -- and this is the problem I have with boxed sets. Plus they create storage problems.
> 
> For me it is much easier to search and/or listen until I find what I want, cherry pick, and download the recordings I want or buy them on CD if the CD is worth it.


I have three Beethoven cycles. Krips is mediocre, but Gardiner and 1963 Karajan are wonderful in most of their symphonies. Gardiner is best in 1, 2, and 4, fair in the others save the Ninth. Karajan is best in 3, 5, 7, and 9; his only dud is the Sixth.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm getting spoiled by downloads. It's easier to search for a title or album on the computer than to go to my CD stack and try to find what I'm looking for, and I don't have to bother with loading and unloading discs.


I do almost all my listening on my phone; however, I am building up a CD collection because they are higher quality.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

ORigel said:


> I do almost all my listening on my phone; however, I am building up a CD collection because they are higher quality.


Oh. Sorry. I don't want to get didactic, but no, you can *choose* what audio to put on a phone. MP3, WMA, WAV, FLAC.. all are generally possible. There is no fundamental reason why you cannot have 16-bit 44100Hz sampling audio on your phone (I do). And that's _precisely the same_ audio quality as you will get with CDs.

Now, it's possible you only put 128kbps MP3s on your phone because of space constraints, and then that's fair to say 'phone v. CD, CD wins'. But that's a _choice you have_ and which _you make_. It's not an inviolate, intrinsic attribute of the various audio systems as you've described it.

I won't bang on about it, because I am aware that I can sound like a broken record on the subject. But there is _nothing_ mystical about CD audio quality which means you cannot have exactly equivalent audio quality on _any digital device you choose_. My fridge can play CD-quality audio, for heavens' sake!

And more specifically: don't build up a physical CD collection just because you want CD-quality audio! That precise quality can be yours in half the physical disk space, and a millionth of the physical storage space, if you simply rip CDs to FLAC (or lossless WMA if you're that way inclined).


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Oh. Sorry. I don't want to get didactic, but no, you can *choose* what audio to put on a phone. MP3, WMA, WAV, FLAC.. all are generally possible. There is no fundamental reason why you cannot have 16-bit 44100Hz sampling audio on your phone (I do). And that's _precisely the same_ audio quality as you will get with CDs.
> 
> Now, it's possible you only put 128kbps MP3s on your phone because of space constraints, and then that's fair to say 'phone v. CD, CD wins'. But that's a _choice you have_ and which _you make_. It's not an inviolate, intrinsic attribute of the various audio systems as you've described it.
> 
> ...


Hear, hear 

FLAC is king, and it's available for download from many providers (including my favorite Presto Classical) if you don't want to deal with the physical disc.

I do dare say, however, that most would not be able to distinguish a 320kbps MP3 against a CD-quality FLAC file. The beauty of FLAC is that it retains all of the data of the CD, which makes turning it back into a CD (for a friend, say) a trivial matter.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> There is no such thing as an 'album' in classical music.
> Discuss...


I agree with you, but there is at least someone out there talking about classical albums:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31557-my-essential-classical-albums/


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

SixFootScowl said:


> I agree with you, but there is at least someone out there talking about classical albums:
> https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31557-my-essential-classical-albums/


Well, he opens by saying he listens to (wipes mouth and spits somewhere) Jazz and Rock 

It is an odd way to approach it, isn't it!


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

I appreciate boxes of complete cycles or meaningful collections, like complete recordings of certain musician from the label. 
I'd hesitate buying those big boxes with a seemingly random assortment of recordings. I have two, and they're rarely touched simply because most of the contents were not wanted in the first place. And I have all my music in a NAS. 


Collecting individual discs is sadly not an option most of the time. And it's not even a matter of money. Many out of print CDs are simply impossible to find now. Slightly obscure stuff can disappear from the market only a few years after they're released. I am glad when recording companies reissue them in boxes.


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

Space is the problem. I have too many CDs.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

John Lenin said:


> They are cheaper, in some cases remarkably cheaper than collecting 'all' individual discs. But in some cases you don't want ALL the individual discs. BUT are box sets harder to take down from the shelf and take the individual disc out to play, then just reaching for a seperate individual packaged disc.... Do we play 'box sets' less... or am I the only one with this deep psychological problem......


I'm pretty much only interested in box sets because I generally want ALL the discs. I want to hear all the recordings by a particular artist, whether that's a conductor or a pianist, violinist, cellist, etc. or an ensemble or in some places a composer. They take up way less space because I do want all the discs. Every day is like Christmas because I get to decide which disc I want to listen to.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This is the best, all 52 CD's :lol:


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

ArtMusic said:


> This is the best, all 52 CD's :lol:
> 
> View attachment 150240


Ha ha..... imagine spending a year alone with that..... one CD a week..... and nothing else


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Oh. Sorry. I don't want to get didactic, but no, you can *choose* what audio to put on a phone. MP3, WMA, WAV, FLAC.. all are generally possible. There is no fundamental reason why you cannot have 16-bit 44100Hz sampling audio on your phone (I do). And that's _precisely the same_ audio quality as you will get with CDs.
> 
> Now, it's possible you only put 128kbps MP3s on your phone because of space constraints, and then that's fair to say 'phone v. CD, CD wins'. But that's a _choice you have_ and which _you make_. It's not an inviolate, intrinsic attribute of the various audio systems as you've described it.
> 
> ...


Not only do I use 128 to 196 kbps MP3 files, my phone speakers are poor quality (though I have used aux cords before and got better results).


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## daco (Jan 5, 2021)

I find that I'm skeptical of the cheap box sets from the Bach Guild. I somehow assume that if the recordings were any good, they would be more expensive.

Take this current offering of Stravinsky, currently on sale for $0.99, normally $4.99:

https://www.classicselectworld.com/products/big-stravinsky-box-5-hour-digital-download

Granted, this is only 5 hours, so it's more like 4 or 5 CDs (not much of box set). But even though I *know* that it's normally $4.99, just seeing the $0.99 price makes me think "cheap, not worth it". The generic packaging also makes me skeptical.

Whereas this one is more appealing, even though it is more expensive:

https://www.classicselectworld.com/products/strawinsky-le-sacre-du-printe

This certainly says more about my own personal "consumer psychology" than it does about the merits of box sets.

Actually, this second one now looks interesting to me! Does anyone know if these performances / recordings are any good? :lol:


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

I still love my CDs: they usually come with documentation, and you have the option of playing them on sound systems far superior to phones or computers. 

As for box sets, I tend to buy for performers rather than composers. Yes, I have some of the performances on individual discs, but the per disc price of the box still allows me to economically plug a lot of gaps in my collection. The various box sets by Adrian Boult, Eugen Jochum, Janet Baker and Frederica von Stade are all gems.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I think box sets of all the works of a particular composer might have a tendency to be a little uneven. I'd have separate box sets for, say, Bach's cantatas and organ or other keyboard works.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Love them or load them, just follow your own instinct.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

ORigel said:


> Not only do I use 128 to 196 kbps MP3 files, my phone speakers are poor quality (though I have used aux cords before and got better results).


Well, you make those choices, and that means the qualities concerned are your choices too. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But the original sentence was 'I am building up a CD collection because their quality is higher than my phone". It was a general statement that CDs are higher quality audio than what you can get on a phone, and that is simply and factually not the case.

I will certainly agree that phone speakers are not a good high end audio experience, but I honestly didn't think anyone would ever be talking about them as though they were worth anything, ever! Most people listening to music on their phones would be taken to mean "via decent quality headphones", which is the only way "phone audio" is ever going to be comparable to anything. (As you say, plugging your phone into a hifi system via a 3.5mm headphone jack and the aux input line of your amplifier can work well, too).


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Fredrikalansson said:


> I still love my CDs: they usually come with documentation, and you have the option of playing them on sound systems far superior to phones or computers.


I don't get that last part of that sentence at all. If you think those of us with a computer at the heart of our sound systems are content to listen via [email protected] PC speakers or something, well... We don't. External DACs are a thing, and they mean you can route your digital audio into the highest end sound system you can afford.

You can also choose to use a free onboard audio chip and some [email protected] desktop speakers if you like, of course. But no-one that cares about their music would do that.

Still love your CDs if you like, of course. Nothing wrong with that at all. But do it for good reasons, not ones that aren't fact-based.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Well, he opens by saying he listens to (wipes mouth and spits somewhere) Jazz and Rock
> 
> It is an odd way to approach it, isn't it!


Yep, I guess he is too new to classical to understand that we don't do albums in classical. The whole concept does not make sense for a work such as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Maybe one could call a set of lieder an album, but generally classical is not albums.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

SixFootScowl said:


> Yep, I guess he is too new to classical to understand that we don't do albums in classical. The whole concept does not make sense for a work such as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Maybe one could call a set of lieder an album, but generally classical is not albums.


I had someone email once wanting a discussion about the third 'track' of a symphony or other.

You're spot on about 'mood CDs' or 'theme CDs', of course, too. I try and avoid those, for the same reasons Boxed Sets make me wary.


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## thejewk (Sep 13, 2020)

I love them, and I foresee 99% of my future purchases being boxed sets or downloads. The vast majority of my listening time is spent listening to digital files from my computer, so ripping a boxed set as FLAC removes the issues of unwieldy splits in pieces and messing about with the physical media past the first few days. If downloads were consistently the same price or cheaper than the physical sets, I would go entirely to downloads.

I strongly dislike having different pieces back to back on a CD, and I separate out the music when I rip it to either opus numbers or individual works, resorting to a themed collection folder such as Assorted Lieder when there are a bunch of add ons included.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

thejewk said:


> I love them, and I foresee 99% of my future purchases being boxed sets or downloads. The vast majority of my listening time is spent listening to digital files from my computer, so ripping a boxed set as FLAC removes the issues of unwieldy splits in pieces and messing about with the physical media past the first few days. If downloads were consistently the same price or cheaper than the physical sets, I would go entirely to downloads.
> 
> I strongly dislike having different pieces back to back on a CD, and I separate out the music when I rip it to either opus numbers or individual works, resorting to a themed collection folder such as Assorted Lieder when there are a bunch of add ons included.


Sounds pretty much what I'd do, too. I organise by composer/genre/composition, to keep things a bit more manageable on the file system level. And yeah: confronted with 321 Irish Songs by Beehoven that all last 54 nano seconds, they get ripped as a 'theme' to a single 'Irish Songs' folder. So, I think we're on the same page.


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## Geoff48 (Aug 15, 2020)

I really enjoy box sets but consider they may be getting a little too large. When the icon sets started they tended to include a selection of the music played by the featured artist, often on 10 CDs or thereabouts. This often led to complaints particularly when a favoured disc was not included. I remember complaining when the Solomon 7 cd set had no Chopin. And the CDs were often crammed with music, often taken from more than one LP. And the sets were reasonably priced, often about £20 or thereabouts.
At the same time EMI issued 5O cd sets of Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert as well as 50 ballet CDs and 51 opera highlights ( Cav and Pag sharing a disc). And 30 cd sets of Elgar and Vaughan Williams. All sets were comprehensive but not complete. And the performances were often leading versions from LP days. Tate and Barenboim respectively in Mozart Symphonies and Concertos Cluytens in the Beethoven Symphonies, Menuhin in Schubert symphonies and Sawallisch in a selection of his Choral Music and Barbirolli in orchestral Elgar.
But now there is a tendency to complete sets, often in the region of 100 CDs. And even excluding the question of justifying the expense of buying then there is the issue of actually listening to them in the context of a busy life. The Brilliant Bach box is on 150 CDs and would probably take over a month to listen to properly. And that would mean eschewing other composers for that time.
I really love music but I enjoy a wide selection of classical music. And I appreciate that there are only so many hours in the day, even in a time of the pandemic and lockdown, to devote to music.
So, except for the libraries and academics, I believe that the mega boxes have grown too big. And I dread the arrival of the complete Vivaldi or Telemann. Because as an inveterate collector I will probably buy them whether or not I have time or inclination to actually listen to more than a small fraction of them. For me I would like to go back to the small selection boxes which introduces us to a composer or artist without overwhelming. Remember the first line of Twelfth Night.
Now I have to practice what I preach.
And another gripe. Do we really need the facsimile LP. CDs hold in excess of 80 minutes of music. In RCAs first living stereo box it was usual for two LPs to often share a disc. By box 2 each former LP had its own disc. Beethoven piano concertos under Rubinstein took 5 CDs. And Rossini’s Barber took 4 CDs which is ridiculous given that the breaks were not always in the logical place. And Otello took 3 and still manage to omit the ballet music which I seem to remember was on LP.
Which ends the rant for today.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Single composer/single artist boxes are fine, with the caveat that they're rarely the last word for those works. Celi's Bruckner, Karajan's Beethoven, Gieseking's Debussy, Milstein's Bach.
And if the box isn't too big, then the EMI Icon-style series & equivalents are pretty good, although that can really overlap the duplication. So, Single performer / Multi composer. Yes, I'm in for those.

I generally avoid the enormous single composer / multi-artist boxes. 300 CDs of Bach, 150 of Mozart. Too hard to store - never listen to them.
And finally Multi artist / Multi composer. This can be hit or miss. I bought the first 60-CD Vivarte brick because I had so little of the music (less than half) and is was SO cheap. I bought the ICA BBC Legends Vol 1 (20 CD) because it really did seem to be the cream of BBC historical broadcasts never before released (and the price was right). And the DG box of 'The Violin' (42 CD) I bought because there was a fair bit I didn't have as far as repertoire go, price was good, and I play the violin!

Shelf storage gets messy though. Alphabetical by composer is my default (like everyone), yet there's not a single performance of Brahms violin concerto under 'Brahms', despite my owning 9 of them (5 different ones by Oistrakh!) So there's a 5000-line spreadsheet as well!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I like those big box sets but I have never bought any. It's a good marketing effort to promote the great music of those masters.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The only problem with big box sets is if it is too expensive and I want it!


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

No. Most recent box sets from major labels are of good quality.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I intend to be buried with my CD box sets, which is why I've pre-ordered four caskets.

'Nuff said. (You may surmise that I like box sets.)


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

the recent (is it recent?) trend of "original jacket" boxes are nice since it's a tacit acknowledgement that classical record sleeves used to look good and look like crap now

seriously cmon here bring this kinda thing back


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

SONNET CLV said:


> I intend to be buried with my CD box sets, which is why I've pre-ordered four caskets.
> 
> 'Nuff said. (You may surmise that I like box sets.)


I would recommend a giant casket with CD racks on all sides so you will have Surround Sound! 

Count on buying maybe 4 grave sites side by side so you can have that big casket planted crosswise to them all. Then your headstone should be something like a giant facsimile of your all time favorite box set.

My brother has a '93 Mustang on his headstone because he was a gearhead and his casket is colored in primer grey!


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