# Richard Strauss - 4 Letzte Lieder / Fruhling. BLIND POLL



## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

The idea of this blind poll is that sometimes we are (more or less) preoccupied (positively or negatively) with the name of the conductor, singer, soloist, so our opinion isn't as unbiased as it should.

There are seven samples of *Fruhling*. You don't know the singer, the conductor, the orchestra. All you have is your ears. What you have to do is to listen to the samples (as many times you want), compare them and finally tell which performance liked you the most. After a sufficient amount of votes (hopefully >10-15), the names will be revealed.

Thank you for your participation!

*I am quite sure that some of you, will recognize some voices.
Please keep it for yourself until the end of the poll.
Thank you.*

*ATTENTION*
After the announcement of the singers' names, there will be a quiz of different kind, upon the samples.
STAY TUNED!


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)




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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)




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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)




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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Least Enjoyable - #1 - irritating vocals, too quick, little nuance or drama.

Best - #2 - great pacing and perfect vocals - has everything I could want.

The others are very good.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

No Strauss fans here?
Or too many samples?


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Skakner said:


> No Strauss fans here?
> Or too many samples?


I love this idea (and there have been several similar "blind comparisons" in the past) but you would have much more interest if you asked for the thread to be placed in the main forum, as the majority of members do not visit the games subforum. I will try to listen later


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I love this idea (and there have been several similar "blind comparisons" in the past) but you would have much more interest if you * asked for the thread to be placed in the main forum*, as the majority of members do not visit the games subforum. I will try to listen later


Thanks for the suggestion!
I will ask a moderator.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Becca usually does these kind of blind challenges. I'm not one who participates in games since I always have my own listening agenda. Check them out before doing one of these again. Have a nice day.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

No. 1: Very quick without nuance. This music should not be sung like light opera. I do very much like the soprano’s silvery voice but she is working with an impatient conductor. I think I know this one.
No. 2: Still a bit on the quick side but better pacing than 1. I like the darker voice of the singer and she shows great attention to the poetry of the text. Likable.
No. 3: The singer sounds more like a mezzo-soprano. Nice accompaniment. Quite an operatic rendition. 
No. 4: This version is instantly recognizable for me. The aching poetry, subtle nuance, and exquisite tenderness of the soprano’s voice makes this one of my favorite recordings of this song cycle.
No. 5: Nice methodical, luxurious pacing and phrasing from the conductor but I think the soprano’s voice is a bit too light and undernourished.
No. 6: Another one I recognize immediately from the second the vocalist enters. I do like it very much because the the soprano has such a unique and beautiful timbre, but I think there is just a little something missing to plumb the poetic depths like others do. The orchestral accompaniment, however, is perhaps unmatched.
No. 7: Gorgeous singing and sensitive orchestral playing. Perfect pacing. Of the ones I was (probably...) unfamiliar with I like this one best. 

This is certainly one of my favorite works in all classical music and one can hardly judge a performance fairly from the first 40 seconds, but this definitely is a nice study in varying interpretations.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Granate said:


> Becca usually does these kind of blind challenges.


Yes, but she's never done one where the clips are only 1 minute long. This one isn't time-consuming at all.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Not quite up my alley but this short excerpt thing motivated me. I liked all of them except the first one but 4-6 really stood out to me. Perhaps 4 was the better interpretation overall but I enjoyed the latter slightly better.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I will come back, the first three I recognized in two minutes, each that is .


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

No. 1: Very quick without nuance agree with A.C.B
No. 2:Good but a later recording sound more mature. 
No.3 : To slow .
No: 4 and 5 not my taste at all. 
No : 6 Another one I recognize immediately from the second the vocalist enters. I do like it very much because the the soprano has such a unique and beautiful timbre ( as quoted by A.C.B)
No.7: Only for the die hard fans like 4 and 5
Thus I cannot vote.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

OK, thank you all for your contribution!
I'll let one more day before the names announcement.

Now I am gonna ask the next question.

*Do you listen any other difference between the samples?*
I am not talking about good or bad performance, singing, instrument playing etc.

There is one difference (of some other kind) and there is a story behind it.
2-3 sec is enough time for a good ear...


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

I must add that *only one sample* is somehow different from the others and this difference can be heard *only by comparative listening*.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Number 6. I recognized it immediately. I'll let you reveal the names, but it's in a different class. The orchestra and singer are one. The singer sounds like she's coming from within the orchestra itself. Furthermore, the singing never sounds forced, strained or unnatural, which is the case for the rest of this great recording. The others sound like the orchestras could have recorded their parts first and then the singers came to the studio a week later to record their parts on top of it. I realize that's an exaggeration, but hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

1. The right voice, wrong conductor.
2. A little too much vocal mannerism for my taste.
3. Overall, my preference, although I'd like a somewhat less overtly operatic approach
4. Yeccch.
5. The vocalism is a little too "white" and disembodied for my taste.
6. The voice isn't bad, but her diction is dreadful.
7. Not bad, but there's just enough vocal unsteadiness to bother me.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Number 6. I recognized it immediately. What separates it from the others is the chemistry between the singer, orchestra, and conductor. They are on the same page. The singer sounds like she's coming from within the orchestra and all are one, instead of an orchestra playing its part and a singer laying a "solo" over it. Also, the singing is so natural and unforced, without any straining whatsoever. The others sound like an attempt at greatness; number 6 just is.

**Ooops! Sorry for the double-post. I have yet to make friends with technology.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Skakner said:


> I must add that *only one sample* is somehow different from the others and this difference can be heard *only by comparative listening*.


No. 1 is in mono sound?


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> No. 1 is in mono sound?


No, it's not mono.


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## hustlefan (Apr 29, 2016)

Skakner said:


> OK, thank you all for your contribution!
> I'll let one more day before the names announcement.
> 
> Now I am gonna ask the next question.
> ...


No. 4 - sounds like it is sung at a lower pitch than the others, i.e. transposed down a half-step.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I know who one of the singers is, so I feel like I'm biased.

1. Nice voice, but does seem rushed.

2. Not bad, but compared to others it doesn't seem as great. The singer might be trying too hard to be emotional.

3. Pretty good, but when compared to others, this singer strikes me as having to deep or dark of a voice for the music.

4. Something about this voice I don't like.

5. I might know who the singer is. Absolutely beautiful voice, but needs to sing a bit louder.

6. I know who is singing, so I might be biased. Very beautiful, and overall the most dreamy sounding. This is my favorite.

7. The voice can be pretty, but the high notes are too weak.

I feel like, because I am comparing such short selections and listening so closely and intently, that I am thinking about these way more than I would if I were to just listen to the recordings normally.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

By the way, thanks for making these YouTube links instead of downloads. I like that better.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

*The samples*
1 - Isokoski, Berlin Radio Symphony, Janowski (Ondine, 2002)
2 - Fleming, Houston Symphony, Eschenbach (RCA, 1995)
3 - Norman, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Masur (Phillips, 1982)
4 - Schwarzkopf, Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra, Szell (EMI, 1965)
5 - Auger, Wiener Philharmoniker, Previn (Telarc, 1989)
6 - Janowitz, Berliner Philharmoniker, Karajan (DG, 1973)
7 - Studer, Staatskapelle Dresden, Sinopoli (DG, 1993)










*Janowitz* (sample 6) took 5 votes
*Fleming* (sample 2) took 1 vote
*Norman* (sample 3) took 1 vote

I think that all seven performances are more than good. My personal preferences are Norman, Studer, Isokoski.

Thank you all for your contribution and the great comments!!


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

hustlefan said:


> *No. 4* - sounds like it is sung at a lower pitch than the others, i.e. *transposed down a half-step*.


Exactly! :clap:
Whoever plays (or have played an instrument) could detect this pitch difference in sample 4.

The story behind this...
Rumors say that by 1965, Schwarzkopf (50 years old) had some technical issues and "Frühling" was played a semitone down, probably because of her difficulty (or inability) to handle the high b properly. Walter Legge who was the producer and (Schwarzkopf's husband) maybre pulled some strings. Despite of the artistic outcome (which is a matter of personal taste), I think that a conductor of Szell's stature shouldn't accept to violate composer's score.

This b is the highest note of all four songs.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I have one wrong, I thought you had posted Schwarzkopf twice.
I did miss the famous Lucia Popp recording however.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Skakner said:


> *The samples*
> 1 - Isokoski, Berlin Radio Symphony, Janowski (Ondine, 2002)


I remember liking this one a lot when I first heard it - but I don't remember finding it nearly as rushed as it seemed when thus excerpted.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Skakner said:


> *The samples*
> 1 - Isokoski, Berlin Radio Symphony, Janowski (Ondine, 2002)
> 2 - Fleming, Houston Symphony, Eschenbach (RCA, 1995)
> 3 - Norman, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Masur (Phillips, 1982)
> ...


Wow, I was absolutely convinced No. 1 was Della Casa/Böhm. I'm not as good at recognizing singers as I am with pianists and orchestras/conductors. Norman/Masur is my favorite performance so I was surprised that I didn't recognize it. And I'm also shocked that I never noticed the pitch difference in the Schwarzkopf as that is a recording I have listened to many times!

P.S. Arleen Auger is a great Bach singer but I knew from the first second I heard that sample that her voice was too light and fluttery for this music.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Wow, I was absolutely convinced No. 1 was Della Casa/Böhm.


You're not alone...


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I guessed wrong about number 5. I did not know who that was. But I could easily tell that number 6 was Gundula Janowitz. She has such a distinct beautiful voice!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Rogerx said:


> I have one wrong, I thought you had posted Schwarzkopf twice.
> I did miss the famous Lucia Popp recording however.


I thought that the Studer sounded very like Schwarzkopf. My ears must be getting old!:lol:


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I’ll admit I like Schwarzkopf’s recording the best, which I find perplexing because I’ve assimilated the notion that she’s too mannered and, at age 50, had lost vocal agility. I had to hear it to come to my own conclusion. The recordings I have in my collection — della Casa and Diener — are still my favorites for various reasons, but this was a really fun comparison.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> I thought that the Studer sounded very like Schwarzkopf. My ears must be getting old!:lol:


But only the ears Barbebleu , that is how it goes. I know the problem.


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## Lordgeous (Sep 27, 2020)

Gosh, didnt spot Schwarzkopf, a recording I grew up with and thought I knew inside out! Have never spotted the pitch difference either! She IS very mannered but somehow her apparent struggle and frailty seem to suit these wonderful songs, and she moves me more than some more perfect voices do - though I DO like the Popp and Janovich. Interesting quiz. Thankyou


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