# Paul Hindemith (1895-1963)



## JTech82

A theorist, teacher, violist, conductor, and composer who is regarded by many as the foremost German composer of his generation, Paul Hindemith was one of the most central figures in music between the First and Second World Wars. Born outside of Frankfurt, Hindemith moved with his family to the city in 1902. It was here, in 1904, that Hindemith began taking violin lessons. By 1908, Hindemith became a student of Adolf Rebner, a teacher at the Hoch Conservatory in Frankfurt, who arranged for Hindemith to be awarded a free place at the conservatory the following year. Although he had long been composing, Hindemith, in addition to continuing his study of the violin, began to study composition formally. However, he was forced to leave the conservatory in 1917 when he was called up for military service. He spent most of his service as a member of a regimental band stationed about 3 kilometers from the front line.

After returning from the war, Hindemith again took to the concert stage, having switched to viola in 1919. In 1923 he was invited to join the administrative committee of the Donaueschingen Festival, a group over which he exerted an ever increasing amount of control; programming works of such composers as Schoenberg and Webern. The next year he married Gertrud Rottenberg, the daughter of the conductor of the Frankfurt Opera Orchestra, an ensemble in which Hindemith had been playing. In 1927 he received an appointment as professor of composition at the Hochschule für Musik in Berlin. In addition to maintaining an active performing career, Hindemith soon developed a strong interest in teaching, and even took on an evening class at the Volksmusikschule NeuKolln.

Early in 1934, the Nazi party began a campaign to discredit Hindemith, which culminated in a boycott of the composer's works announced by the Kulturgemeinde in November of that year. In January 1935, Hindemith was given a six-month leave from the Hochschule. However, as the boycott of his music was not endorsed by the music division of the Nazi party until 1937, Hindemith was allowed not only to return to teaching, but also to undertake a series of concert tours abroad, to have his music published, and to enter into an agreement with the government of Turkey to build an organized musical life in that country. However, in 1937, Hindemith left Germany for Switzerland, and in 1940 came to the U.S.

After a series of lecture and teaching engagements which had been arranged by friends, Hindemith took a position at Yale, teaching composition and, from 1945 to 1953, conducting the Collegium Musicum. In 1946, Hindemith became an American citizen. In 1951 he accepted a position at the University of Zurich and, after retiring from Yale in 1953, took up permanent residence in Switzerland. After retiring from his post in Zurich, in 1955, he became more active as a conductor. In November 1963, he was taken ill and transferred to a hospital in Frankfurt, where he died of acute pancreatitis.

(Article taken from All Music Guide)

I'm a big fan of this composer. His work is described as "neo-classical," but I think that's a pretty stupid label to put on someone. They did the same thing to Stravinsky.

Anyway, he's a great composer. Very neglected and there's not many recordings of his available to the public. Right now, I only have two recordings a Yoel Levi/Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and a 3-CD set of orchestral works with Herbert Blomstedt/San Francisco Symphony.

What do you guys think about him? Have any favorite compositions? Anything you would recommend to other people?


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## Sid James

This is an interesting article. I didn't know that he had served in WWI.

If I was forced to put a label on him, I would call him Expressionist...

Apart from his more well known works (eg. the infamous *Mathis der Maler Symphony *or the _*Symphonic Metamorphosis*_) I would recommend his concertos and chamber works.

I have heard his _*Violin Concerto*_, and it is an excellent work. Tension is never far below the surface, the violin sings and soars, all the way through to the chromatic and upbeat finale. I heard David Oistrakh's version, conducted by Hindemith himself in the early 60's. It's available here in Australia on Decca Eloquence.

I also like, for similar reasons, his _*String Quartet*_ No. 5 or 6 (can't remember) which I have as part of a 2 cd set of various composers (all exiles in the USA) played by the New World Quartet. It is a deeply expressive work, which can seem rather cold and contrapuntal on the surface, but when you dig deep, it has much warmth. This is the contradiction that presents us with many of his work. Like, at the end of that work, there is a fugue or something, which seems rather technical, but then he interrupts it with a dance (a waltz, maybe) and it comes alive.

His life was not without *controversy*, it is well known how he was *blacklisted* and left Germany due to the rise of *Nazism*, but on *Wikipedia* it also says that he *swoar an oath to Hitler, conducted for official Nazi concerts, and had accepted a commission from them to compose music for a Luftwaffe event *(though the music never materialised)...

I suppose he bowed to official pressure to a degree, but after his life was made intolerable due to the Nazis, he left for the USA. Apparently, he was very bitter towards Germany right until the end of his life, could never forgive them.


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## JTech82

Hindemith lived a very interesting life to say the least. His music is very different, but I can tell a Hindemith composition in a minute. It has such a unique sound. He really developed his own musical language. He used a lot of what I guess could be called _volume swells_ were the notes raise in volume at a certain speed depending on the tempo within the composition. These _volume swells_ are almost always low bass notes underneath a contrapuntal or melody line. He was also a brilliant orchestrator and amazing with counterpoint. There's always a certain drama to his pieces too which give the music a lot of feeling.

I have ordered 5 more recordings of Hindemith with Yan Pascal Tortelier and the BBC Philharmonic. I look forward to hearing them!


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## Bach

JTech, you once told me you disliked Hindemith..


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## JTech82

Bach said:


> JTech, you once told me you disliked Hindemith..


Well Bach, I went back and listened again and I now really like him. I'm sure this has happened to everyone at least once. We hear somebody and don't like them immediately, but then we go back and listen again and we appreciate them much more.

So yes, I did say I didn't like him before, but now I like him a lot. Do you like him Bach? What are your favorite compositions of his?


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## Bach

I do indeed like him, especially for his various sonatas. One of the few composers to write a sonata for every mainstream western instrument.. 

I also enjoy his symphonic works - Mathis der Maler and the Metamorphosen on a theme by CMvWeber are of particular note, I feel.

But he is certainly a man with consummate compositional technique - a wonderful teacher he would have made! 

I can tell you're way on your way to the second Viennese school.


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## Sid James

Whatever label you put on his music generally (Expressionist, Modernist, Neo-classicist), I think the _Mathis der Maler Symphony_ is one of the last great Romantic symphonies. Not only does the work go back to the time of the peasant's revolt in Germany in the C16th, and the paintings of Matthias Grunewald which are similarly full of emotion, it has a rich strand of deep humanism, which is also apparent in a long line of Germanic composers (Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler). & of course, that final grand chorale for brass, one of Hindemith's greatest creations, seems to hark back to none other than the great JS Bach. This is almost an archaic work, and were it not for the uncomfortable political subtext (human rights & revolution) the Nazis might have actually put up with it. But obviously, they didn't & banned it, despite the protestations of the music going public & conductor Furtwangler at the time.

There is also this sense of going back to the past to explore old ways expression in a new way in the _Symphonic Metamorphosis on themes of CM von Weber_. It is a superb work, mirroring not only Weber's classical Germanic tradition but the even older Chinese melodies embedded in the opera on whose themes it is based, Weber's _Turandot._

Bach is correct in saying that he skillfully wrote many sonatas, and concertos, for a wide array of instruments, all of which he had a great knowledge of. I've heard only two of these works, the _Violin Concerto _(which I discussed above) and also have one of his _Violin Sonatas _on CD. In these works, there is again a sense of craftsmanship and knowledge of old forms, but he is approaching them in a new light. It is a pity that these works are not that well recorded or played today, somehow they've been eclipsed by works of his contemporaries like Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev & Shostakovich. For example, one often hears the _Viola Concertos _of Bartok & Walton, & even once in a blue moon of Martinu, but it is not often that you hear Hindemith's superb _Trauermusic _(for viola & orchestra) which he wrote in only a space of days while he was in the UK, in memory of the king (forgot which one) who died at the time (in the '30s)...

But I think that he was, at heart, continuing the Germanic tradition which stretched right back to JS Bach right up to the time of the generations of Brahms & Mahler, and beyond into the mid C20th.

& I don't blame JTech for not liking him at first. As I said earlier, his works show a keen interest in technique, and this can often overwhelm the listener, much like a piece by JS Bach or Haydn. He often marks movements with technical descriptions, like the ostinato which is the last movement of his _Pittsburgh Symphony_. This could be a dry exercise in technique, but he always throws something in towards the end to make it exciting, like that gripping brass chorale at the end of _Mathis der Maler _or a banal upbeat tune that brings to mind the music of street bands at the end of _Pittsburgh_. So really, you have to not just hear but perceive - Hindemith challenges us to do this often. This is why I find his music so rewarding.


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## JTech82

Bach said:


> I do indeed like him, especially for his various sonatas. One of the few composers to write a sonata for every mainstream western instrument..
> 
> I also enjoy his symphonic works - Mathis der Maler and the Metamorphosen on a theme by CMvWeber are of particular note, I feel.
> 
> But he is certainly a man with consummate compositional technique - a wonderful teacher he would have made!
> 
> I can tell you're way on your way to the second Viennese school.


Funny should mention Mathis der Maler and Metamorphosis on a Theme By von Weber, because I was just listening to those last night. I also like his other symphonies, his concertos, and in particular Nobilissima Visione. Such a beautiful piece of music. He was such a gifted composer.

As far as me being on my way to the Second Viennese School, I'm not sure about that. I'm still traveling in the realms of tonality. Stravinsky and Hindemith are about as far out as I get.

But maybe one day I'll wake up, until then, I'm enjoying the sounds of Hindemith.


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## JTech82

Andre said:


> Whatever label you put on his music generally (Expressionist, Modernist, Neo-classicist), I think the _Mathis der Maler Symphony_ is one of the last great Romantic symphonies. Not only does the work go back to the time of the peasant's revolt in Germany in the C16th, and the paintings of Matthias Grunewald which are similarly full of emotion, it has a rich strand of deep humanism, which is also apparent in a long line of Germanic composers (Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, Mahler). & of course, that final grand chorale for brass, one of Hindemith's greatest creations, seems to hark back to none other than the great JS Bach. This is almost an archaic work, and were it not for the uncomfortable political subtext (human rights & revolution) the Nazis might have actually put up with it. But obviously, they didn't & banned it, despite the protestations of the music going public & conductor Furtwangler at the time.
> 
> There is also this sense of going back to the past to explore old ways expression in a new way in the _Symphonic Metamorphosis on themes of CM von Weber_. It is a superb work, mirroring not only Weber's classical Germanic tradition but the even older Chinese melodies embedded in the opera on whose themes it is based, Weber's _Turandot._
> 
> Bach is correct in saying that he skillfully wrote many sonatas, and concertos, for a wide array of instruments, all of which he had a great knowledge of. I've heard only two of these works, the _Violin Concerto _(which I discussed above) and also have one of his _Violin Sonatas _on CD. In these works, there is again a sense of craftsmanship and knowledge of old forms, but he is approaching them in a new light. It is a pity that these works are not that well recorded or played today, somehow they've been eclipsed by works of his contemporaries like Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev & Shostakovich. For example, one often hears the _Viola Concertos _of Bartok & Walton, & even once in a blue moon of Martinu, but it is not often that you hear Hindemith's superb _Trauermusic _(for viola & orchestra) which he wrote in only a space of days while he was in the UK, in memory of the king (forgot which one) who died at the time (in the '30s)...
> 
> But I think that he was, at heart, continuing the Germanic tradition which stretched right back to JS Bach right up to the time of the generations of Brahms & Mahler, and beyond into the mid C20th.
> 
> & I don't blame JTech for not liking him at first. As I said earlier, his works show a keen interest in technique, and this can often overwhelm the listener, much like a piece by JS Bach or Haydn. He often marks movements with technical descriptions, like the ostinato which is the last movement of his _Pittsburgh Symphony_. This could be a dry exercise in technique, but he always throws something in towards the end to make it exciting, like that gripping brass chorale at the end of _Mathis der Maler _or a banal upbeat tune that brings to mind the music of street bands at the end of _Pittsburgh_. So really, you have to not just hear but perceive - Hindemith challenges us to do this often. This is why I find his music so rewarding.


I agree with this assessment. It is an intelligent point Andre has made here, especially in this sentence:



Andre said:


> You have to not just hear but perceive - Hindemith challenges us to do this often.


This is so true, especially with Stravinsky, Hindemith, or any "neo-classical" composer. There's so much beauty to be found in these works. I'm just busting with excitement, because Hindemith very well may become one of my favorites of all time.

Thanks to Andre, Bach, and all who participated in this thread. Let's keep it going. This composer's work needs to be exposed!


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## Sid James

As Bach said, he wrote for many instruments. This quest for comprehensiveness can be seen in his chamber music (_kammermusik_) output, particularly of the 1920's. He also attempted to write simple music, which could be played by amateurs, but was of a high quality. A good example of this are his mainy sets of small pieces, such as the _Five Pieces _ for strings (which I have on CD on a compilation). They are very accessible and show his unique style.

By the way, his _Funeral Music (Trauermusik)_ for viola & orchestra, which I mentioned above, was written in January 1936 in memory of King George V.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> By the way, his _Funeral Music (Trauermusik)_ for viola & orchestra, which I mentioned above, was written in January 1936 in memory of King George V.


"Trauermusik" is such a beautiful piece of music. I only wish people would get into Hindemith more. I'm not sure what is holding people back.

In all your own opinions, why do you think Hindemith's music is not heard more?


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## PostMinimalist

I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold. 
While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


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## Mirror Image

post-minimalist said:


> I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold.
> While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


That's a fair assessment, but you can apply the same kind of analysis to Stravinsky too. His music isn't all that heart-breaking either, but this, in my opinion, doesn't make their music any less compelling.

Hindemith was a composer of great depth. I'm not sure what you own, but I own all the major releases and some more not so well-known and I love every single one of them. Hindemith never composed a piece of music that I didn't feel a deep connection to of some kind. Though his music rewards listeners of all guises if you listen more closely. It's emotion is in it's brilliant counterpoint and the way these motifs weave in and out of each other. It's really quite mesmerizing and beautiful if you ask me, but there is a Romantic sweep to the music that adds to the drama.

I still think it's a shame his music isn't played more, but I can understand why it's not too, because his pieces need a dedicated conductor and an orchestra of the highest virtuosic ability to play them who are willing to take more risks with music.

I whole-heartedly recommend Yan Pascal Tortelier's and Herbert Blomstedt's Hindemith cycle to everybody.


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## Bach

post-minimalist said:


> I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold.
> While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


Shallow, materialistic, philistine comment..


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> Shallow, materialistic, philistine comment..


While I agree with you Bach, everybody is entitled to his/her own opinions, but I don't really care what Post-Minimalist wrote. I feel an emotional attachment to Hindemith's music and I know you do too, so that's really all that matters.

Every composer has his group of fans and detractors. Best thing that I've learned through the years is just to walk away.

You know people used to really tick me off when they said something about Thelonious Monk that was derogatory, but now I don't think too much about it. When you get older, you start caring less about what people think and more about what's important to you.

I'm sure there are composers that Post-Minimalist likes that I would never listen to in a million years, but again it's all a matter of what he likes. I can voice my opinion all day long about a composer he likes that I don't, but an opinion should never dictate whether you like someone or not. You have to find out for yourself.


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## Mirror Image

My favorite Hindemith compositions are:

Symphonic Dances
Symphony Mathis der Maler
Symphonic Metamorphosis (Variation on a Theme by Von Weber)
Symphony in E Flat
Nobilissima Visione
Theme and Four Variations "The Four Temperaments" (for piano and strings)
Pittsburgh Symphony
Symphonia Serena
Symphony "Die Harmonie der Welt"
Trauermusik
Concerto For Cello and Orchestra


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## Sid James

post-minimalist said:


> I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold.
> While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


Hindemith did have an excellent mastery of the technical aspects of composition, especially counterpoint. Sometimes the sheer craftsmanship of his music can overwhelm the listener. But I think that there is still much emotion in his music, like in the _Trauermusik_ or the _Mathis der maler symphony_. It's just more subtle & less marked, more in the way he expresses ideas rather than the ideas themselves. Eg. the maginificent brass chorale at the end of the symphony, which seems to speak to the struggle for freedom against tyranny. He seemed to be reviving old forms and making them relevant to people in the modern era.

I have also read about a choral work which he composed after WWII, in memory of those who had died, called something like 'Requiem for those we loved.' Even though I haven't heard it, from what I read about it, it's quite an emotional work - for Hindemith, anyway. Pity that it doesn't seem to be so widely available, as with much of his music, apart from the more popular orchestral pieces.


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## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I have also read about a choral work which he composed after WWII, in memory of those who had died, called something like 'Requiem for those we loved.' Even though I haven't heard it, from what I read about it, it's quite an emotional work - for Hindemith, anyway. Pity that it doesn't seem to be so widely available, as with much of his music, apart from the more popular orchestral pieces.


Yes, it's called "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd: A Requiem for Those We Love" and it is quite beautiful. I only have one version of it by Robert Shaw and the Atlanta Symphony Orch. This seems to be the only available release of it right now, but it is fine piece of music. I would like to hear Yan Pascal Tortelier tackle this piece. I'm sure he could do it justice. Tortelier, as some may or may not know, recorded an outstanding Hindemith cycle on Chandos. I own all of these recordings and they're very highly recommended as is Herbert Blomstedt's Hindemith on Decca.


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## PostMinimalist

Bach said:


> Shallow, materialistic, philistine comment..


Fair game. I actually would ammend my comment to say that only when Hindemith was writing for his beloved viola did he really mange to look deep enough into his soul to create meaningful music. The swashbuckler and the solo sonatas are up there with regers works for the instrument.
So, maybe not too philistine now.
I was, after all only trying to answer M.I.s question. Which begs another: why ask questions if you don't care about the answers? (dirrected at Bach more than M.I.)

Shame that you guys openly addmit to not caring what others think. After all that's why we post on a forum and not just send emails to ourselves.
FC


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## Mirror Image

post-minimalist said:


> Shame that you guys openly admit to not caring what others think. After all that's why we post on a forum and not just send emails to ourselves.
> FC


It's not that I don't care what others think, it's just that I find it amusing that someone would say that a composer of Hindemith's stature is emotionally lacking and then kind of just dismiss him out-of-hand. How do you really know it is lacking emotion? Do you feel the same way about Stravinsky's music? If you're going to criticize Hindemith for lacking emotion you might as well say the same thing about Stravinsky. I mean both composers wrote the book on neo-classicism. They're both amazing and ushered in the 20th Century with some of the most profound works I've ever heard.

While you may not find any emotion in Hindemith's work, it's important to note that everybody feels something different from music. What you find emotionless, someone else may find full of emotion.

Bach, Andre, and myself are further proof that Hindemith's music continues to touches people in a deep and profound way and I'm glad I have people to share this joy with.


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## Bach

post-minimalist said:


> why ask questions if you don't care about the answers? (dirrected at Bach more than M.I.)


Don't entirely remember asking a question.. or saying I didn't care about the answer.

I just wasn't very keen on your subjectivist comment. I will agree that his music can shut out the listener at times..


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## PostMinimalist

Mirror Image wrote:



> In all your own opinions, why do you think Hindemith's music is not heard more?
> .....
> 
> While I agree with you Bach, everybody is entitled to his/her own opinions, but I don't really care what Post-Minimalist wrote.
> .....
> 
> I find it amusing that someone would say that a composer of Hindemith's stature is emotionally lacking and then kind of just dismiss him out-of-hand.


My post was this:



> I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold.
> While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


I would hardly say I just dismiss him. 'Great respect', 'very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering', and stating that I like his music.
Hmm.. What would you think of me if I actaully didn't like him?

There is a real technical reason why Hindemith is generally less emotional than other composers using a tonal system. His music is, to a large extent based on the interval of the 4th which gives rise to dry chords and angular melodies this system lacks the sonorous wealth offered by systems based on 3rds. There is a grittiness to this system and a constant tendancy to modulate either a 4th or 5th this makes his music roll forward a bit too much making tensions resolve themselves before they can excert their full power. His crescendos tend to be manufactured rather than organic.

Have you played the respective sonata for your instrument?
Which of Hindemiths sonata do you consider his best?
I find his Trumpet Sonata quite thrilling despite what I've said above.


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## Bach

> There is a real technical reason why Hindemith is generally less emotional than other composers using a tonal system. His music is, to a large extent based on the interval of the 4th which gives rise to dry chords and angular melodies this system lacks the sonorous wealth offered by systems based on 3rds. There is a grittiness to this system and a constant tendancy to modulate either a 4th or 5th this makes his music roll forward a bit too much making tensions resolve themselves before they can excert their full power. His crescendos tend to be manufactured rather than organic.


You see, now that was a good post.


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## PostMinimalist

Respect... dude!


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## Mirror Image

post-minimalist said:


> Mirror Image wrote:
> 
> My post was this:
> 
> I would hardly say I just dismiss him. 'Great respect', 'very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering', and stating that I like his music.
> Hmm.. What would you think of me if I actaully didn't like him?
> 
> There is a real technical reason why Hindemith is generally less emotional than other composers using a tonal system. His music is, to a large extent based on the interval of the 4th which gives rise to dry chords and angular melodies this system lacks the sonorous wealth offered by systems based on 3rds. There is a grittiness to this system and a constant tendancy to modulate either a 4th or 5th this makes his music roll forward a bit too much making tensions resolve themselves before they can excert their full power. His crescendos tend to be manufactured rather than organic.
> 
> Have you played the respective sonata for your instrument?
> Which of Hindemiths sonata do you consider his best?
> I find his Trumpet Sonata quite thrilling despite what I've said above.


Yeah, I know I said I don't care what you wrote, but I do, but I guess I should've said, no matter what people write about Hindemith I will always appreciate and love his music.


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## PostMinimalist

I learned his Sonata for Bass a longtime ago. It is about the best written modern piece for the instrument by a non bassist.

Here's a taste from virtuoso player Boguslaw Furtok.


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## Mirror Image

I guess why I'm happy about Hindemith and my new found obsession for his music is the fact that I completely wrote him off a month ago. I said I think he's terrible and I just can't get into him...or something to that effect.

Anyway, I learned my lesson this time. Never say you dislike somebody until you've given them a chance. Now, there is some music I know I can't get into, because I tried, like Schoenberg or Berg, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't at least keep trying to understand them. I have learned now that it's important to leave the door halfway open before you shut it completely.

My total ignorance of Hindemith ended up being a blessing, because I didn't know (insert derogatory word here) about him and I made a moronic comment like "I don't like him" or "I think he's terrible." Never again will I personally dismiss a composer out-of-hand like I did. That shows a great deal of stupidity and unwillingness to let music guide me instead of letting some set of pre-conceived notions guide me.


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## Saturnus

post-minimalist said:


> I don't think we hear too much Hindemith because his music generally does not have the emotional depth we've come to expect from 1st rate composers. Despite being very clever, interesting, noteworthy, daunting and towering structures there is little tear-jerking in Hindemith and that leaves audiences a bit cold.
> While I like Hindemith's music and greatly respect it, for the reasons I give above I can't say that I 'love' his music.


This is true for some of his music, but not all, especially not: 
-*Trauermusik*
-Clarinet quintet
-Oboe sonata


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## Mirror Image

Saturnus said:


> This is true for some of his music, but not all, especially not:
> -*Trauermusik*
> -Clarinet quintet
> -Oboe sonata


"Trauermusik" is a great piece of music. I liked everything I heard of Hindemith and I mean everything. In my mind, he hasn't done a bad piece of music and I own almost everything he's done in terms of orchestral music.


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## Mirror Image

Hindemith is just so great. What a composer!


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## Bach

I'm guessing you were moved by a piece and just couldn't help posting..


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## Mirror Image

Bach said:


> I'm guessing you were moved by a piece and just couldn't help posting..


Yes, and I think he deserves more credit than he's given around here and throughout the world. He composed some fantastic pieces of music. I finally heard "When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd: A Requiem for those we love" the other night and it was fantastic. It's so Hindemith even with vocals. The orchestral accompaniment is just so characteristic of his music. Being instantly identifiable is a major of accomplishment for any composer I think. He definitely created his own musical language.


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## DTut

*Hindemith?*

Any good Paul Hindemith recommendations to start out on? I've just heard a symphony and it was quite good.

Thanks,
Dave


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## Vaneyes




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## Trout

Kammermusik (especially kliene kammermusik, op. 24, no. 2)


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## Art Rock

Symphony Mathis der Maler
Requiem When lilacs last in the dooryard bloomed
Viola concerto Der Schwanendreher


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## Meaghan

I have played Hindemith's clarinet sonata and enjoyed it. Like much of his stuff, it's pantriadic, so it's _gently_ atonal. And nicely melodic.


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## Sid James

My familiarity with Hindemith is limited to three symphonies, the Violin Concerto, Music for strings & brass & the two sonatas for solo violin & one each of the piano sonatas, violin sonatas and string quartets. I think he is unfairly stereotyped as being dry and technical, but there are glimpses of humour and even wit in his music & sometimes you don't even have to listen closely for that. Take one of my favourite works by him, the _Pittsburgh Symphony_ - two outer very percussive movements imaging the city of steel encasing a walk in the park, complete with an aural image of a marching brass band. The brass band returns in the coda, playing a negro spiritual. There's nothing dry about this work at all, and I can say the same for most of the works that I have heard by him...


----------



## Air

The Mathis der Maler symphony is my favorite work by Hindemith, absolutely adore it. I think he perfected the neoclassicism of Stravinsky and Prokofiev, though his music always has a unique modern tang about it. It's almost as if it seeks to bridge and distill many eras of history into one single voice.


----------



## Sid James

Air said:


> The Mathis der Maler symphony is my favorite work by Hindemith, absolutely adore it. I think he perfected the neoclassicism of Stravinsky and Prokofiev, though his music always has a unique modern tang about it. It's almost as if it seeks to bridge and distill many eras of history into one single voice.


The rousing brass chorale concluding that symphony makes me think that Hindemith was thinking that the German people (& the world) would overcome the oppression of Nazism. Even though it's based on German late Gothic painter Grunewald's religious imagery, the symphony definitely has political connotations. The Nazis obviously read between the lines and promptly banned the work, despite Furtwangler's protestations. There seem to be parallels between Hindemith's Mathis der Maler Symphony & Beethoven's Eroica. Both are basically about the people overcoming oppression, they are both eulogies to freedom from tyranny...


----------



## irej

the opera, Mathis der Mahler, is magnificent ; i once heard a live broadcast om fm radio, maybe 20 years ago, from the Munich opera house, when travelling the autoroute Stuttgart to Salzburg ; if i am right (not sure), it was conducted by Sawallisch ; 
superb music it is, the performance was impressive, that warm july evening, speeding to Salzburg ;

and now, through the good service of this site, i found the impressive recording which Kubelik made in the same (?) house ; long days and years from Adolf H. tyranny, who justly gauged that this music was criticizing his statue ;

sure, it is 3 cd-s long, and it is not for casual listening ;


----------



## starthrower

I also recommend the 3 disc set on Decca pictured above.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I think his string quartets (seven in all) make up one of the finest (and undervalued) 20th century cycles I've heard - it really does trace the history of PH the composer and it seems a pity that they don't get more plaudits than they seem to. I like his larger orchestral works but I think his 'kammermusik' series, the many sonatas for wind and string instruments and the aforementioned quartets hold the most appeal for me. Although he was also a notable musical theorist he didn't infuse too much of his work with bloodless logic even if writing it for teaching purposes and no-one could accuse him of being a gratuitous note-spinner. Quite often his music seemed to have more than a hint of Poulenc-like playfulness, especially in the works featuring wind instruments. Oh, and his three piano sonatas are worth investigating - they had no less a champion than Glenn Gould, whose recording of them I have.


----------



## clavichorder

I really enjoy his symphony in E flat and his symphony for winds, they are two modern favorites indeed. He's so busy and concise and his themes are quite clear. He has soul to him.


----------



## Ukko

I'm glad so many of you are enjoying his music. I did too for awhile, and then it seemed like it was all too closely related; derivative of itself; like that great worm swallowing its tail.

My bad I think. Hindemith just couldn't please everybody.


----------



## Xytech

I like his Bassoon Sonata. One of the first 'real' works I played, the first movement is quite wistful but with its moments of anger, the second movement is to me a powerful political statement and is very exciting!

I should add that I think he writes so well for the bassoon because he was a bassoonist himself!


----------



## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> I'm glad so many of you are enjoying his music. I did too for awhile, and then it seemed like it was all too closely related; derivative of itself; like that great worm swallowing its tail.
> 
> My bad I think. Hindemith just couldn't please everybody.


I can see how you would think that, but in a way that's pretty old fashioned of him isn't it? He developed his own sound and within that sound he conceive of a large number of pieces. The development of a really unique sound is very 20th century of him, but to conceive a large number of pieces based on it, and he's a bit like a baroque or classical era composer, say Vivaldi, Haydn, or CPE Bach, who might be said to have that problem you described.

Either way, all his good works seem to stand well on their own.


----------



## joen_cph

The relative neglect of Hindemith - this thread, apparently being the most recent dedicated just to him (except from the "Mathis der Maler" opera thread), hasn´t received contributions for more than a year - makes it a delight to collect second-hand LPs of his works, since nobody else really seem to care much about them ... as a result, prices are usually low, especially on sales. Here´s what I´ve collected so far for very little money, also illustrating the diversity and richness of the oeuvre.

The "Harmonie der Welt" conducted by Mravinsky is one of my most cherished orchestral recordings of the 20th century and an ideal introdution to the lesser known Hindemith. The cello works are in general also recommendable, for instance.

LP "Cardillac", Opera i 3 akter op.39 (1926)/Keilberth,soli,KölnRSO/dg 69 2lp 139 435-46
LP "Hin Und Zurück",Operette f.Soli & Ens. (1927)/Grüber,soli,Berlin SO;StuttgSoli/candide ce 31044
LP "Mathis der Maler", Opera ()/Kubelik,F-Dieskau, etc./EMI 3LP

LP "6 Korsange" ()/Caillard-Kor/erato mus 19028
LP ”Die Serenaden” f.Sopr. & ens. Op.35 ()/Addison,solister/nonesuch h-71149
LP ”Martinslied” f.Tenor & Ens. Op.45,5 ()/Bressler,solister/nones h-71149

LP "Symfoni, Mathis der Maler" (1934)/Horenstein,LSO/unic 73 rhs 312
lp "Symfoni, Mathis der Maler" (1934)/Steinberg,PittsbSO/capitol mono p8364
LP "Symfoni, Es-Dur" (1940)/Kegel,DresdenPO/eterna 84 827 760
LP "Symfoni, Es-Dur" (1940)/Bernstein,NYPO/cbs 60288
LP "Symfoni, Es-Dur" (1940)/Suitner,DresdStKap/eternal st 8 25 843
LP "Sinfonia Serena" (1946)/Kegel,DresdenPO/eterna 84 827 760
LP "Symfoni f.Messingblæsere" B-Dur (1951)/Hindemith,PO/angel 57-xx st 60005
CD "Symfoni, Harmonie der Welt" (1951)/Mravinsky,LenPO/mel 65-95 74321 251952
LP "Symfoni, Harmonie der Welt" (1951)/Mravinsky,LenPO/mel 62-xx cm 02861-62
LP "Symfoni, Harmonie der Welt" (1951)/Hindemith,BPO/decca mono dl 9765

LP ”Konzertstück” f.Trautonium & Str. (1931)/Sala,Stadlmair,MüCO/telef 6.42520
LP "Violakoncert, Der Schwanendreher" (1935)/Barsony,Erdelyi,UngStO/hg lpx 11587
lp "Violakoncert, Der Schwanendreher" (1935)/Thompson,Epstein,MITSO/turnab 76 qtv 34687
lp "Violakoncert, Der Schwanendreher" (1935)/P.Doktor,E.Downes,LPO/cbs 72677
LP "Trauermusik" f.Viola & Ork. (1936)/Tolpygo,Serov,LeninCO/mel 80 c10 15989-90
cd "Violinkoncert" (1939)/D.Oistrakh,Rozhdestvensky,USSRSO/rev 62-97 rv 10075
LP "Violinkoncert" (1939)/Gertler,Ancerl,CzPO/sup 110 0508
LP "Violinkoncert" (1939)//D.Oistrakh,Rozhdestvensky,USSR RSO/sovdisc chant du m ldx-a 48.333
lp ”Violinkoncert” (1939/Gitlis,Reichert,WestphSO/turnab mono-st tvs 34276 
LP "Klaverkoncert, De 4 Temperamenter" (1940)/Nikolaeva,Sondeckis,LitSO/mel 83 a10 00033 003
LP "Klaverkoncert, De 4 Temperamenter" (1940)/Hindemith,Otte,BPO/dec mono dl 9829
lp "Klaverkoncert, De 4 Temperamenter" (1940)/Aller,Slatkin,ConcArtsO/capitol mono p8230
LP "Cellokoncert" (1940)/Perenyi,Lehel,UngRSO/hg lpx 11556
cd "Klaverkoncert" ()/Puchelt,Celibidache,BPO/membran 4cd mono 05 222336-354
LP "Klarinetkoncert" (1947)/Lächner,Kegel,DresdPO/eterna 84 827 797
LP "Hornkoncert" (1949)/Damm,Kegel,DresdPO/eterna 84 827 797
LP "Koncert f.Trompet,***** & Str." (1949)/Soli,Kegel,DresdPO/terna 84 827 797
LP ”Orgelkoncert” (1962)/A.Heiller,Horvat,ORF SO/telef 80 6.42520

LP "Kammermusik nr.1" f.Ork. op.24,1 (1921)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
cd "Kammermusik nr.2" f.Klav. & 12 Instr. op.36,1 (1924)/Richter,Nikolaevsky,MosEns/rev 78-97 rv 10093
LP "Kammermusik nr.2" f.Klav. & 12 Instr. op.36,1 (1924)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
LP "Kammermusik nr.3" f.Cello & 10 Instr. op.36,2 (1924)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
LP "Kammermusik nr.4" f.Vl. & Ork. op.36,3 (1924)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
lp "Kammermusik nr.4" f.Vl. & Ork. op.36,3 (1924)/Gerle,Scherchen,Ens./westm 74 wgs 8269
LP "Kammermusik nr.5" f.Viola & Ork. op.36,4 (1924)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
LP "Kammermusik nr.6" f.Viola & Ork. op.46,1 (1927)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23
LP "Kammermusik nr.6" f.Viola & Ork. op.46,1 (1927)/Tolpygo,Serov,LeninCO/mel 80 c10 15989-90
LP "Kammermusik nr.7" f.Orgel & Ork. op.46,2 (1927)/Reicherdt,Ens13/dhm 78 1c 65-99 721-23

LP "Konzertmusik" f.Viola & Ork. (1930)/Tolpygo,Serov,LeninCO/mel 80 c10 15989-90
LP "Konzertmusik" f.Piano, Harper & Messing op.49 (1930)/Howarth,JonesEns/argo 81 zrdl1000
LP "Konzertmusik" f.Str.& Messing op.50 (1930-31)/Hindemith,PO/angel 57-xx st 60005
LP "Konzertmusik" f.Str.& Messing op.50 (1930-31)/Howarth,JonesEns/argo 81 zrdl1000

LP "Das Nusch-Nuschi", Tanzsuite op.20 (1921)/Grüber,soli,Berlin SO;StuttgSoli/candide ce 31044
LP "Der Dämon", Kct.suite fra balletten op.28 ()/Grüber,soli,Berlin SO;StuttgSoli/candide ce 31044
mc "Konzert für Orchester" op.38 (1925)/Järvi,Chicago SO/st
LP "Morgenmusik" f.Messing (1932)/Howarth,JonesEns/argo 81 zrdl1000
mc "Nobillissima Visione" f.Ork. (1938)/Hindemith,Philh/053 mono
cd "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Furtwängler,BP/int mu 2cd 47-99 20.3138
cd "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Furtwängler,BP/arkadia 47-00 78592
lp "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Abbado,LSO/decca 69 sxl 6398
LP "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Bernstein,NYPO/cbs 60288
LP "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Hindemith,BPO/dec mono dl 9829
LP "Sinfonische Metamorphosen Webersche Themen" (1943)/Suitner,DresdStKap/eternal st 8 25 843

mc "Septet f.Blæsere" (1947)soli/st

LP "Klarinetkvintet" op.30 (1923)/Klöcker,Karolyi4/mhs or h-289
mc "Klarinetkvintet" op.30 (1923)/Buchberg4,Löffler/st

CD "1.Strygekvartet" f-mol op.10 (1919)/Kocian4/hm praga 95 pr250 088
LP "1.Strygekvartet" f-mol op.10 (1919)/Styvesant4/chant dm ldx a 8353
CD "2.Strygekvartet" op.16 (1920)/Kocian4/hm praga 95 pr250 088
LP "2.Strygekvartet" op.16 (1920)/Kreuzberg4/decca 76 6.42077
LP "3.Strygekvartet" op.22 (1922)/Kreuzberg4/decca 76 6.42077
lp "3.Strygekvartet" op.22 (1922)/Dvorak4/sup st sv 8213
CD "6.Strygekvartet" Es-Dur (1945)/Kocian4/hm praga 95 pr250 088
mc "Der Fliegende Holländer" f.Str4 (1925)/Buchberg4/st
mc "Minimax" f.Str4 (1923)/Buchberg4/st
LP ”Kvartet f.Violin, Klarinet, Cello & Klaver” (1938)/Klöcker,solister/mhs or-h 289

mc "2.Strygetrio" (1933)/Hindemith,Goldberg,Feuermann/053 mono
LP ”Trio for 3 Trautoniums” (1930)/Solister/telef 80 6.42520

lp "Cellosonate" op.11,3 (1919)/Aldulescu,Guttmann/eternal 71 st 826 140

mc "Violasonate" op.25,4 (1922)/Kashkasian,Levine/st
mc "Violasonate" op.11,4 (1924)/Kashkasian,Levine/st
lp "Violinsonate" E-Dur (1935)/Dratvova,Veselka/***
mc "Violasonate" (1939)/Kashkasian,Levine/st

LP ”Sonate for Obo & Klaver” (1938)/Kühn,Laugs/mhs or-h 292
LP ”Sonate for ***** & Klaver” (1938)/Prappacher,Laugs/mhs or-h 292
LP ”Sonate for Klarinet & Klaver” (1939)/Klöcker,Genuit/mhs or-h 292

lp "Harpesonate" (1939)/Korchinska/loiseau ols 176
lp ”Harpesonate” (1939)/Zabaleta/Everest 5 LP st 3144-5
mc "Harpesonate" (1939)/Ellis/053 st
lp "Saxofonsonate" (=Hornsonate) (1943)/Roth,Wyss/colos sm640
LP ”Duo for Violin & Cello” ()/Tarack,Kouguell/nonesuch h-71149

LP "Sonate f. Viola Solo" op.11,5 (1923)/Barsony/hg lpx 11587
mc "Sonate f. Cello Solo" op.25,3 (1923)/B-Bengtsson/st
LP ”Sonate for Violin solo” op.31,1 ()/G.tarack/nonesuch h-71149
mc "Sonate f. Viola Solo" op.31,4 (1924)/Kashkasian/st
CD "Sonate f. Harpe Solo" (1939)/Antonelli/arts 99 47532-2

LP "Suite 1922" f.Klav. op.26 (1922)/Billeter/mhs 2lp or-h 423-24
lp "Suite 1922" f.Klav. op.26 (1922)/Marcol/gig del jazz 91
LP "1.Klaversonate" (1936)/Heidsieck/emi falp 646
LP "1.Klaversonate" (1936)/ Billeter/mhs 2lp or-
LP "2.Klaversonate" (1936)/Heidsieck/emi falp 646
LP "2.Klaversonate" (1936)/ Billeter/mhs 2lp or-
lp "2.Klaversonate" (1936)/Havlikova/opus 84 9111 1335
LP "3.Klaversonate" (1936)/Heidsieck/emi falp 646
LP "3.Klaversonate" (1936)/ Billeter/mhs 2lp or-
lp "3.Klaversonate" (1936)/Gould/***
lp "Duet-Sonate" f.4Hdgt (1938)/Menuhin-Ryce Duo/everest ***
LP "Ludus Tonalis", 23 Klaverstykker (1942)/J.Carlson/emi stereo 65 scxh 120


----------



## science

We can merge these threads someday: http://www.talkclassical.com/13355-hindemith.html


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## Quartetfore

I have always liked the his music, in fact some of my first "LPS" were of his big works. That said it would seem that the record companys are keeping him a live. If you are concert goer as I am, can you remember the last time a work of his was played. I am afraid that he is going to share of say Ernest Bloch, by that I mean slipping off the stage
If you do like Hindermiths music, you should try to hear his Mini-Max for string quartet---very funny music


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## drpraetorus

The Symphonic Metamorphosis is about the only Hindemith I can really get into.


----------



## Arsakes

It is said that His tonal music is used to oppose the atonal music of Schoenberg .... but Hindemith wasn't talented enough or something like that. So was he up to something nice (tonal composition)?


----------



## Kostka

Metamorphoses are very good and very classical Hindemith, but I´d dare to opine, that he has written plenty of much deeper compositions. Despite his vibe may look "cold" and somehow "rational" I´m convinced this first seeming turns into something that goes straight to the soul, is warm and tender and human. Examples for me (which haven´t been mentioned so far, which is quite a mystery to me): Symphonia Serena. Horn Concerto. Clarinet concerto.


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## drpraetorus

It has been remarked that hindemiths music looks much better than it sounds. Shostakocitch was of that opinion. His scores are quite interesting to analize.


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## neoshredder

Great Composer. Decided to bump this thread for his birthday.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I listened to a Hindemith opera for the first time, the following DVD. You non-opera fans might like to give it a listen. It was eighty-eight minutes long and the protagonist was both a loved artist and a mass murderer.

_Cardillac_ (1926)


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## clavichorder

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I listened to a Hindemith opera for the first time, the following DVD. You non-opera fans might like to give it a listen. It was eighty-eight minutes long and the protagonist was both a loved artist and a mass murderer.
> 
> _Cardillac_ (1926)
> 
> View attachment 9943


That was a surprisingly good opera.


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## Sid James

Arsakes said:


> It is said that His tonal music is used to oppose the atonal music of Schoenberg .... but Hindemith wasn't talented enough or something like that. So was he up to something nice (tonal composition)?


Hindemith, as I understand it, was pretty neutral in attitude towards Schoenberg until after 1945. Or at least not that 'anti' atonality. But after 1945, Hindemith became one of the big critics of atonal/serial music. His criticisms are interesting to read (I've been reading some of them lately) and he does make points that come across as reasonable. I agree with some things he says, and not others. But a lot of his bitterness would have been sparked off by people like Boulez and Stockhausen saying he and guys like K.A. Hartmann where dinosaurs. Adorno even said Schoenberg didn't go far enough. They all worshipped Webern, his approach became the new dogma after 1945. So any composer doing music which was vageuly melodic or contrapuntal in a traditional way was put out in the cold. They threw out the baby with the bathwater, basically and HIndemith in his writings does in effect make this kind of point. He was not alone in this, other critiques like this came from composers like Krenek and Honegger and conductors like Ansermet.

I don't want to derail this thread into yet another one focussed on ideology, however I think due to Hindemith being not only a major composer and violist but also an important writer on music in the early to mid 20th century, I thought I'd mention this.


----------



## SottoVoce

Sid James said:


> Adorno even said Schoenberg didn't go far enough. They all worshipped Webern, his approach became the new dogma after 1945.


I don't think Adorno liked Webern, Sid. Here's a source of his rather disparaging remarks on Webern (it's near the end). I think he was very much in the Schoenberg and Berg camp when it came to twelve-tone technique. He actually disliked Hindemith for the lack of emotional content in his work, not for the excess of it. He saw Schoenberg as the pinnacle of hyper-emotionalism.


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## Cnote11

clavichorder said:


> That was a surprisingly good opera.


May I ask why you say _surprisingly_?


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## clavichorder

Cnote11 said:


> May I ask why you say _surprisingly_?


I did not initially have low expectations, in fact I was pretty optimistic and hopeful that it would be good, but the piece surpassed my expectations nonetheless.

One aspect of it is that its because its Hindemith, and I usually think of his stuff as intellectual and sometimes neutral sounding but with rhythmic vitality. I was fond of that Hindemith's music and artistic ideals, but I did not expect this kind of music from him. It was great to see this Hindemith signature translate into dramatically powerful music, although I had trouble envisioning it, thinking of him more as an absolute music composer. Keep in mind that before I had heard this work, I had not heard his most famous works Mathis de Mahler or Variations on a theme by Weber. Also, the opera is not well known, which is surprising considering how good it is.

The other aspect had to do with the story. For whatever reason, the name Cardillac did not prepare me at all for the dark depths this story explores.


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## Cnote11

Hmm... thanks for the quite in-depth answer, Clavi! I think I ought to check this work out for myself. I can definitely get a sense of your perception and I feel quite similar. This sounds like a rather exciting endeavor.


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## Vaneyes

Re *Cardillac* (1926), the central portion of the work enthralls me--V. Lied VI. Pantomime VII. Arioso un Duett VIII. Arie mit konzertierenden Instrumenten, thanks to Hindemith's majestic writing for woodwinds and brass.


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## Vaneyes

20th century's most neglected composer?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...he-20th-centurys-most-neglected-composer.html


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## Mahlerian

Vaneyes said:


> 20th century's most neglected composer?
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...he-20th-centurys-most-neglected-composer.html


Any author who defends a composer by saying they "aren't atonal" loses much of my sympathy. You shouldn't feel the need to trash other things while defending something's merits.


----------



## hreichgott

Vaneyes said:


> 20th century's most neglected composer?
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...he-20th-centurys-most-neglected-composer.html


I like their definition of neglected. "3 albums released this autumn, and only one symphony performance in Britain during the next month!!"
(Of course I always love to hear more Hindemith, but must we call everyone neglected?)


----------



## arpeggio

National Symphony will be performing _When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd_ Jan. 30 - Feb. 1, 2014.


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## starthrower

Hindemith conducts the CSO.


----------



## Vaneyes

In Praise of Paul Hindemith....

http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_features.php?id=11655

Note: Re *Selected Hindemith CDs* at the conclusion of this article, I suspect they were largely chosen for on-site convenience, in that they were reviewed there. If interested in these works, you may want to also audition other recs. :tiphat:


----------



## hpowders

Never took to Hindemith's music. Not for lack of trying.
Mathis der Maler, Violin Concerto, Symphonic Metamorphosis on Themes by Weber, etc;
Just doesn't appeal to me.


----------



## starthrower

^^^^
Well, thanks for sharing.


----------



## hpowders

starthrower said:


> ^^^^
> Well, thanks for sharing.


I should sleep well tonight, getting that off my chest!

To Paul: No hard feelings? :tiphat:


----------



## science

Does anyone have any opinions about Wergo's series of recordings of Hindemith's piano music?


----------



## elgar's ghost

science said:


> Does anyone have any opinions about Wergo's series of recordings of Hindemith's piano music?


Erm...expensive? :lol: And the running time of some Wergo discs leave something to be desired. However, I doff my cap to them as, along with cpo, they have served Hindemith well in recording many of his works which have been long-neglected, if not forgotten altogether.

To be honest, I would like their recording of the music for piano duet/two pianos as it pairs Hindemith's two key works for the genre(s) but I blanch at the price, as I do with other Wergo recordings I have considered (esp. the oratorio Das Unaufhoerliche - two-disc set which costs nearly £30). I have most of the solo piano works on three discs but on three separate labels, and am more than happy with them.


----------



## Blake

Overlooked this thread while creating a double. Been getting into Hindemith as of late. I'd put him in a similar realm as Stravinsky. Both strikingly intelligent, and can express grand ideas without becoming overly sentimental.

Albert's Orchestral set with CPO is quite nice.


----------



## Blake

Gould talks a bit about Hindemith, and plays his _Piano Sonata #3_:


----------



## Richannes Wrahms

I like the idiom, the logic, and many of the sonatas (not particulary the piano ones though). However, when it gets all 'neoclasical' I find it rather repellent.


----------



## Guest

What to people think of Hindemith as an opera composer? I've tried pretty much all his other genres and wondered if I should try the opera Mathis Der Maler or something...


----------



## elgar's ghost

arcaneholocaust said:


> What to people think of Hindemith as an opera composer? I've tried pretty much all his other genres and wondered if I should try the opera Mathis Der Maler or something...


I'd try one of the earlier ones first, if you can - the expressionist short operas, Moerder, Das Nusch-Nuschi and/or Sancta Susanna (sometimes considered to be a triptych although the plots are unrelated). All three combined last less than 2 hours. After that there is what is considered to be his operatic masterpiece, Cardillac, written at a time when he was tightening up his music within a self-formulated neo-classical aesthetic, although the psychodrama of the plot lends itself to expressionism. Then there is the 'zeitoper', Neues vom Tage, where his cooler, leaner style incorporates a hint of jazz/cabaret revue in order to to dovetail into a modern-day plot about two couples and their respective marital situations.

I'd put aside Mathis der Maler and Die Harmonie der Welt until after listening to some of the early stuff - these two are far more slow-moving and the musical variety seems to be stretched a little too thinly at times. Then, towards the end of his life, he composed the one-acter The Long Christmas Dinner (his only opera in English, in collaboration with U.S. playwright Thornton Wilder) - it sounds interesting but I have to admit not to hearing it.

You may come to disagree if you decide to investigate Hindemith's operatic output, but I think Hindemith peaked with Cardillac and Neues vom Tage.


----------



## starthrower

^^^^
I've listened to those shorter works, which are up on YouTube, and I think they're great!


----------



## elgar's ghost

starthrower said:


> ^^^^
> I've listened to those shorter works, which are up on YouTube, and I think they're great!


I'm glad they're available there - the first two have been recorded once, I think.


----------



## Krummhorn

Hindemith also wrote for the organ:


Organ Sonata No. 1 (1937)
Organ Sonata No. 2 (1937)
Organ Sonata No. 3 (on ancient folk songs) (1940)

I have played the Sonata No. 2 in concert on occasion. The middle movement I have also used as part of my music on Sunday mornings at the church service.

His organ music is, for lack of a better term, 'different ... I find it quite interesting and annoying at the same time ... but it continues to keep my interest.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Krummhorn said:


> Hindemith also wrote for the organ:
> 
> 
> Organ Sonata No. 1 (1937)
> Organ Sonata No. 2 (1937)
> Organ Sonata No. 3 (on ancient folk songs) (1940)
> 
> I have played the Sonata No. 2 in concert on occasion. The middle movement I have also used as part of my music on Sunday mornings at the church service.
> 
> His organ music is, for lack of a better term, 'different ... I find it quite interesting and annoying at the same time ... but it continues to keep my interest.


He also wrote an Organ Concerto, which does sound rather peculiar.


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## PetrB

Hindemith's Organ concerti (there are two.)

Kammermusik No. 7, op. 46 no. 2 (1927), 'Concerto for organ and chamber orchestra'





Paul Hindemith: Concerto for organ and orchestra (1962) (1/3) 





As per my personal taste, I prefer the early and middle period works, and react to the later ones badly. The later period works to me sound like the composer became impressed with and believed in his finally formed new premises and aesthetic of 'what music is and should be,' _as codified by the composer in his textbook on modern music theory,_ and he then proceeded to compose 'following rules,' and these became painfully academic sounding, and they often sound like they are bad parodies (and travesties) of Hindemith by Hindemith.

These early period Kammermusik pieces, 7 in all, are from his plucky, 'bad boy' period, I like their harmonic world, their spirit and ebullience. The middle works by comparison are already getting conservative, and they are lovely. I suppose what I like about Hindemith is that retro-conservative neo-classical aspect, i.e. older forms and procedures (his contrapuntal works often sound like they follow Bach's procedures to the letter) while it is all that with some nice newer harmonies.

Even when I was younger, none if it sounded terribly avant-garde or far out to me, but rather solidly crafted conservative modern music, if not a bit academic and plodding in feel at times.


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## Fugue Meister

I remember the first time I heard Hindemith, it was Sonata for trumpet in Bb it was an instantaneous connection with a music I'd never heard the likes of before and yet there was something so familiar to it. Now I know it was his heavy contrapuntal style but he shrouds it a musical language all his own. To me not since Chopin has there been such a distinct original voice behind the compositions(and I do not mean he sounds like Chopin or visa versa). The best part is his output is on the more extensive side so there's a lot to explore.


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## Blake

Had a sudden urge to dive into some Hindemith. He has that sharp-witted, magical essence I usually liken to Stravinsky. Very great.


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## GioCar

Time to bump his guestbook since I'd like to recommend this new album from HM









An unusual but fascinating selection of sonatas for various instruments (Alto Horn, Cello, Trombone, Violin - the sonata in E, Trumpet) and Piano he wrote between 1935, when he became persona non grata in Nazi Germany, and 1948.

The final movement "Trauermusik" of the sonata for Trumpet and Piano is a little gem indeed.


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

I think that his chamber works often brought out the best in him, and it's always interesting for me to compare the earlier sonatas for strings to the middle and later ones (primarily) for wind.


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## Guest

I've got some of his chamber works and he is always interesting to listen to; no padding. I'm surprised he's not more well known?


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## starthrower

Love that organ CD on the Apex label. His operas Das Nusch-Nuschi, and Mathis Der Maler are great, imo. I just ordered a Janos Starker CD of cello concertos, and Hindemith's is on this, so I'm looking forward to that.


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## Mandryka

If you like Hindemith you may also enjoy Christian Wolff. Try the CD by Sally Pinkas called Bread an Roses.


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## arpeggio

An American composer who studied with Hindemith was Norman Dello Joio. His music espoused most of the aesthetics of Hindemith. To my knowledge his most frequently performed word in the band composition _Variants on a Medieval Tune _. I have performed it many times myself.

There are many samples of Dello Joio's music on the You Tube.


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## 20centrfuge

Hindemith has been one of a handful of twentieth century composers that I dearly love. It all started with the wonderful trumpet sonata and Mathis der Maler and has grown to embrace the Piano Sonata no.2, the Symphony in B-flat for band, as well as Konzertmusik for Brass, Strings, etc.

I still have a lot of listening to do on this composer but I thought I would at least add my 0.02$.

Lastly, I have listened to literally dozens of recordings of the trumpet sonata. The recording by Thomas Stevens is hands down the greatest. It is a flawless performance, but it is more than that. The last section of the sonata "All Men must Die" - a hymn played by the trumpet is so full of pathos, it just about makes me cry on this recording. Sooo beautiful. Totally worth checking out if you are a serious fan of Hindemith.


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## violadude

Being a violist, my first exposure to Hindemith was through the viola sonatas. Surprising how many people haven't heard them. Hindemith himself was a professional violist and he wrote 7 sonatas for the instrument. If you include the viola concertos (Kammermusik 5 and possibly 6, Der Schwanendrer, Trauermusik), he probably wrote the largest body of compositions for viola by any one composer, certainly by any of the major composers.

The most immediately attractive viola sonatas are probably Op. 11 no. 4 and Op. 25 no. 4










My personal favorite viola sonata is op. 31 no. 4. The moto perpetuo first movement with an interesting use of "doubled open strings" (doubling an open string with the stopped version of the same note) as a method of accentuation is fun for everyone except the violist (ha) but its last movement is a brilliant set of variations.






His 7 string quartets are great, especially 3-5. Hindemith certainly knew string instruments very well and knew how to exploit the sound of the string quartet to a great advantage.

String quartet #3 is actually one of the pieces that put Hindemith on the map, for good reason.






I also recently listened through all the Kammermusiks. They are awesome. Hindemith at his most energetic and neo-classically brilliant.


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## TurnaboutVox

violadude said:


> Being a violist, my first exposure to Hindemith was through the viola sonatas. Surprising how many people haven't heard them. Hindemith himself was a professional violist and he wrote 7 sonatas for the instrument. If you include the viola concertos (Kammermusik 5 and possibly 6, Der Schwanendrer, Trauermusik), he probably wrote the largest body of compositions for viola by any one composer, certainly by any of the major composers.
> 
> His 7 string quartets are great, especially 3-5. Hindemith certainly knew string instruments very well and knew how to exploit the sound of the string quartet to a great advantage.
> 
> *String quartet #3 is actually one of the pieces that put Hindemith on the map, for good reason.*


That is where I got started with Hindemith as a teenager. I have no idea what gave me the idea to take out an LP of a Hindemith string quartet from the public library, but I'm glad I did. He's a very rewarding composer of chamber (and solo piano) music indeed, amongst other things.


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## violadude

TurnaboutVox said:


> That is where I got started with Hindemith as a teenager. I have no idea what gave me the idea to take out an LP of a Hindemith string quartet from the public library, but I'm glad I did. He's a very rewarding composer of chamber (and solo piano) music indeed, amongst other things.


Is it labeled #3 on the LP? We may be talking about different pieces if so. His first string quartet was recently discovered so what is now known as his 4th quartet was previously labeled his 3rd and so on.


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## TurnaboutVox

violadude said:


> Is it labeled #3 on the LP? We may be talking about different pieces if so. His first string quartet was recently discovered so what is now known as his 4th quartet was previously labeled his 3rd and so on.


The work in question was Op. 22 and labelled #3 on the 1968 LP. so yes, it is the current #4. Were you referring to Op 16?


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## violadude

TurnaboutVox said:


> The work in question was Op. 22 and labelled #3 on the 1968 LP. so yes, it is the current #4. Were you referring to Op 16?


Yes, I was referring to Op. 16. They are both awesome though. Op. 16 is the piece that established his "Hindemith style" though. His earlier pieces were mostly an amalgamation of various experiments in style.


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## Harrytjuh

Hindemith is truly an underrated composer whose works should be performed more. His style very unique and interesting. As a horn player, his horn sonata is one of my favourites, but all his pieces are very beautiful. I think his real strength is the fact that his pieces are all very different, but you'll immidiately know that it is Hindemith.


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## Torkelburger

Harrytjuh said:


> Hindemith is truly an underrated composer whose works should be performed more. His style very unique and interesting. As a horn player, his horn sonata is one of my favourites, but all his pieces are very beautiful. I think his real strength is the fact that his pieces are all very different, but you'll immidiately know that it is Hindemith.


Ditto for the tuba sonata as well (from a tuba player). And yes, a truly underrated composer who should be performed MUCH more. I agree.

One example has got to be his Concerto for Orchestra. I think it would be more well-known and even be considered equal to Bartok's and Lutoslawski's if only it were longer perhaps. It's my personal favorite of the three.





And The Harmony of the World (symphonic version) has to be one of the finest symphonies of the last century. Easily on par with Prokofiev and Shosty. Easily. But rarely played.


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## QuietGuy

I just finished listening to his Sonata per Arpa here:





Interesting composition!


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## Avey

violadude said:


> Being a violist, my first exposure to Hindemith was through the viola sonatas....Hindemith certainly knew string instruments very well and knew how to exploit the sound of the string quartet to a great advantage.





Harrytjuh said:


> As a horn player, his horn sonata is one of my favourites...





Torkelburger said:


> Ditto for the tuba sonata as well (from a tuba player). And yes, a truly underrated composer who should be performed MUCH more. I agree.


Let me continue the theme, albeit from a less talented, but generalized perspective: Being a _*listener*_, I certainly appreciate that Hindemith wrote music.


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## Albert7

Glenn Gould is a gateway to your works in fact. I got into your Piano Sonatas and then I am hoping to explore more of your works in the near future.


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## Guest

*Hindemith*

Any takers?

I'm interested in further delving. Possibly his string quartets? All I have is his violin sonatas, which I really enjoy. Apparently he was an accomplished viola player, so I'm thinking his SQs might be particularly worth investigating.

Thoughts, people. :tiphat:

(Searched for a thread on him, but to no avail)


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## Taggart

Please use the index. This thread has been merged with the original guestbook.


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## TurnaboutVox

dogen said:


> Any takers?
> 
> I'm interested in further delving. Possibly his string quartets? All I have is his violin sonatas, which I really enjoy. Apparently he was an accomplished viola player, so I'm thinking his SQs might be particularly worth investigating.
> 
> Thoughts, people. :tiphat:
> 
> (Searched for a thread on him, but to no avail)


Hindemith's string quartets have long been a favourite of mine, dogen. I struggled to find a satisfactory reading of all seven, but recently Naxos released the final disc of what has been an excellent 3-disc set by the Amar Quartet. I think it is now available as a box set.

I didn't care for the Juilliard Quartet's version which I found rather dry and uninvolving. People say good things about the Danish Quartet on cpo, though I've not heard that (it's on Spotify, I think.) I liked the Sonare Quartet's recording of #2 and #5.

As Violadude said above, the heart of the cycle is Nos. 3-5 (Op. 16, 22 and 32), though the others are rewarding too.

For a long time my only recording was a home made cassette of a 1968 record library LP of the Prague City quartet performing Op. 22 on Supraphon. But what a performance it is, gutsy and visceral, if that's not a tautology - the recording is a bit rough and ready, but still. It's now available as a flac download, btw.


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## Guest

Yes I've just noticed that Amar set. Will investigate, thanks. See where using the word pan-tonality ends up!


And thanks for finding this thread. I did Advanced search for Hindemith in Title Only and got nowt!


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## Guest

Wow just listened to snippets of the Amar set. Smokin' !


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## TurnaboutVox

Currently on sale...

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8257020--hindemith-complete-string-quartets


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## Guest

TurnaboutVox said:


> Currently on sale...
> 
> https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8257020--hindemith-complete-string-quartets


Thanks. I think I'll get it on Amazon, so I get the digital too.


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## CnC Bartok

The Amar set of the quartets is well worth seeking out. It's exceptionally good, in repertoire that is poorly looked after on CD.
There are more than enough Hindemith pieces I love for me to hold him in High regard, but there are quite a few pieces that I do find dry and uninvolving. A lot of his other chamber music, for example, and the rather bland Long Christmas Dinner spring to mind. And I have struggled to get much out of a recent investment, the oratorio Das Unaufhorliche.

Works I love:
Mathis, especially the opera, a real masterpiece.
Cardillac
Symphonic Metamorphosis
Nobilissima Visione
Konzertmusik for strings and brass
Many of the Kammermusiks
Der Schwanendreher

I would love to love Harmonie der Welt, either of them, but not yet! Ditto Ludus tonalis, and the Requiem. I'm "working on them...."!

Btw does anyone here have a clue what Das Nusch Nuschi is actually about? I'm very confused....

I think they have one at Chester zoo, but I'd have to check on that....


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## Guest

Just seen this: top 10 albums of 2017 as per the Guardian...

And guess what....

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/dec/21/the-top-10-classical-cds-of-2017-berlioz-les-troyens-debussy-schubert


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## eugeneonagain

Robert Pickett said:


> The Amar set of the quartets is well worth seeking out. It's exceptionally good, in repertoire that is poorly looked after on CD.


They are indeed good. I also have the Amar Hindemith quartets. Even though the entire set has been recently released in new packaging, it isn't the first Amar release of Hindemith Quartets on Naxos; they recorded all of them in 2012. I have no.2 and no.3 on a separate CD.



Robert Pickett said:


> There are more than enough Hindemith pieces I love for me to hold him in High regard, but there are quite a few pieces that I do find dry and uninvolving....


I can agree with you there, but my choices for the dry-as-dust works are almost entirely opposite to yours! I find Mathis der Maler (opera) exceedingly boring and trivial.

I like all of his music for brass, Sonata for 4 horns (most of his music for winds in fact). Concert music for brass/strings; Symphony in Eb; Concert for Orchestra; Sinfonietta; his quartets and trios; violin concerto.... He wrote for many interesting chamber ensembles and most of it is excellent music.

I've never managed to see what other people see in Mathis der Maler.


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## CnC Bartok

Eugene, you don't find the Odenwald scene and the finale immensely powerful?? Vive la difference, but trivial and boring!?!

The Konzertmusik is one incredible adrenaline rush as far as I'm concerned!!


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## eugeneonagain

Robert Pickett said:


> Eugene, you don't find the Odenwald scene and the finale immensely powerful?? Vive la difference, but trivial and boring!?!
> 
> The Konzertmusik is one incredible adrenaline rush as far as I'm concerned!!


Yes okay, trivial is probably a bit strong. The boredom element comes from my opera barrier.


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## Guest

eugeneonagain said:


> Yes okay, trivial is probably a bit strong. The boredom element comes from my opera barrier.


That's a natural thing.


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## kyjo

Anyone else know Hindemith's String Quartet no. 1? The first movement may be rather Brahmsian (and none the worse for that), but the other three movements are filled with originality and memorable ideas. The funeral march-like slow movement is truly haunting - a real find. The 2nd and 3rd quartets are great as well - I haven't heard the rest yet but I can already say that Hindemith's quartet cycle is really underrated. The Amar Quartet recordings on Naxos are superb.


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## Jacck

Hindemith is criminally underrated imho. I recently discovered his violin concerto and it is one the best pieces of the 20th century classical music I heard so far and the best single work of Hindemith I heard so far. I am now listening to his string quartets and they are at the same level of genius with Bartok, Shostakovich, Janáček and Smetana. The problem with Hindemith is, I think, that he lacks immediate appeal and needs time to sink in. But his musical language and harmonies are very unique, complex and deep.


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## cougarjuno

I agree with Jacck that the string quartets are great works. His music is identifiable which I find rare for many 20th century composers. The works for the stage generally are not his best works but I like Mathis and saw a concert version of Sancta Susanna years ago which is brilliant. I'll have to listen to violin concerto again. The Kammermusik Concertos also are worthy of repeated listening.


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## Guest

I agree. I have the Amar Quartet's performances of the complete SQs and his violin sonatas performed by Eliot (violin) and Jill (piano) Lawson.


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## BiscuityBoyle

A great piano composer too. Ludus Tonalis is a colossal work, but to get people into it I recommend to listen to this miniature which is honestly as beautiful a melody as anything ever written






And this is one of the quintessential modernist piano suites


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## CnC Bartok

Have started to quite enjoy the oratorio Das Unaufhorliche (which I assumed translates as "the unlistenable to" Ha!) Shows he's a composer well worth persevering with....

...I politely suggest to myself that Ludus finalise needs a bit more active work on my part. The encouragement above is welcome.


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## Jacck

I started digging into his Kammermusik and it is all wonderful. He wrote also several wonderful concertos and sonatas for several instruments such a clarinet, viola, organ. But as mostly the case with Hindemith, he is rarely appealing on the first listening. I need something like 3-4 listenings to each of his works to really start enjoying them. I can even play his music while reading, working etc and my brain absorbs the patterns subconsciously and then I start enjoying. His violin concerto reminds of Prokofiev's 2nd symphony (my most favorite P symphony) in terms of harmonies. I also love The Harmony of the World, although I heard only the symphonic suite and not the whole opera, or his clarinet concerto


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## BiscuityBoyle

Jacck said:


> I started digging into his Kammermusik and it is all wonderful.


I don't always love every single movement of even my favorite Hindemith works, but he's got some incredible stuff there. This one, the slow movement from the piano concerto Kammermusik, is simply astonishing. Great choice of art by the uploader too, this kind of expressionism goes well with Hindemith.


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## Jacck

Goebbels called Hindemith an "atonal noisemaker" :lol: But Hindemith, along with Strauss, was the most significant german composer of the 20th century, and in my evaluation, in the top10 among the world composers


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## MusicSybarite

I agree with the statement that Hindemith was a very important composer from the 20th century. Right now I'm revisiting the string quartets (the Nr. 5 is playing and having listened to the first 4 of them previously). I can say confidently this is one of the best cycles ever composed. I love those rhythms and witty moments that always amaze me. I also find many lovely moments mixed with irreverent passages, something that a genius can do easily.

This set is simply fantastic, possibly the best one about Hindemith's quartets.


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## Guest

Completely agree about the string quartets. I think they even surpass those of Bartok. I'm listening to them a great deal lately. So much inventiveness.


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## eugeneonagain

dogen said:


> Completely agree about the string quartets. I think they even surpass those of Bartok. I'm listening to them a great deal lately. So much inventiveness.


I'm listening to them right now. I'm on the finale of no.2. I'm less familiar with Bartok's, though I have listened to them all, but I always come back to Hindemith's. Bartok's strike me as less lyrical. Hindemith was more of a polystylist and he surprises you by springing out of a dissonant swirling mass into a beautiful melody or dropping into magnificent counterpoint, Hindemith rarely disappoints.


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## Guest

Just had them on in the car coming home. Philistine.


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## BiscuityBoyle

God knows I love Hindemith but the idea of 20th century string quartets that surpass Bartok's (in what ways?) is incomprehensible to me.


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## Jacck

and which one do you like best, dogen? I feel 1st is most accessible and immediately appealing. Overall I like the 5th the best. But it might change. Some works simply need to be listened more times than others to appreciate. Check also his Requiem if you have not heard it and are into vocal music at least a little.


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## Jacck

BiscuityBoyle said:


> God knows I love Hindemith but the idea of 20th century string quartets that surpass Bartok's (in what ways?) is incomprehensible to me.


and again comparisons  In what ways are the Bartoks quartets so much better? They are just different. Just like an apple is different from a pear, but not better, so different composers are different but not better. At least I cannot tell which one is better, Bartok of Hindemith. I enjoy both immensely


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## BiscuityBoyle

That's pretty much what I meant.


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## kyjo

Bartók’s quartets may be the “greater” works (whatever that may mean), but personally, I enjoy Hindemith’s more. I find them to be more variegated and accessible than Bartók’s, which often come off as rather gritty and astringent to me.


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## MusicSybarite

Both cycles of quartets by Bartók and Hindemith are equally enjoyable for me, or almost equally enjoyable. Regarding intensity and energy, I prefer the Bartók's. Regarding subtlety and wit, my choice are the Hindemith's.


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## Guest

Jacck said:


> and which one do you like best, dogen? I feel 1st is most accessible and immediately appealing. Overall I like the 5th the best. But it might change. Some works simply need to be listened more times than others to appreciate. Check also his Requiem if you have not heard it and are into vocal music at least a little.


I don't have a particular favourite. I still enjoy listening to the Bartok SQs, but for me the Hindemith are more enjoyable (maybe I prefer apples to pears). Bartok's SQs were the first full classical works I began listening to (about 40 years ago) so I know them inside out. There is such amazing switching between styles within the Hindemith; it keeps you on your toes!


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## CnC Bartok

Currently working my way through the quartets, for the first time in a while. I can't compare them favourably to Bartók's, in the 20th century nothing comes near (well, maybe Janacek does). But these are very very fine works indeed. As I said with Das Unaufhorliche, Hindemith is well worth persevering with.....

Got them on in the car as well. Another philistine! Unfortunately it's my main listening place these days. Bloody good sound system, mind..... will come back with a favourite when done.


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## elgar's ghost

If only the Wergo recording of _Das Unaufhörliche_ was cheaper - I can't imagine anyone else recording it this side of Doomsday and it's one of only four works I have left on my Hindemith wish-list after about fifteen years of assiduous collecting.


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## CnC Bartok

I got my copy of Das Unaufhorliche through what I suspect was a pricing error on Amazon. £4.83!!! They then told me it was out of stock, asked if I wanted to cancel, upon my reply to the contrary, sent it, and put the price up to over thirty quid! A small victory on my part!

Which are your other works on the wish list?


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## elgar's ghost

Excellent result, Robert - little victories like that are always pleasant (but sadly all too rare).

My mistake - it's only two apart from _Das Unaufhörliche_. The discs below aren't too expensive in the great scheme of things, but my usual parsimony prevents me from jumping in until the prices fall by a few quid. I do have excerpts of the two works below but the full works intrigue me even though they aren't exactly central to Hindemith's output.

_Plöner Musiktag_



_Tuttifäntchen_​


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## CnC Bartok

I have neither of those, but I suspect I have the same excerpts as you do, the Morgenmusik from Plon and the Suite from Tuttifantchen, both in the CPO/Albert set. The latter also with Sancta Susanna on Chandos (I wouldn't buy the Wergo Susanna, £15 for a 40 minute CD, c'mon!) Both likeable, especially the Ploner Musiktage stuff - a consummate example of his Gebrauchsmusik, surely? - but yes, as you say, not essential.

I am woefully short on his chamber music, but I suspect Hindemith is the sort that doesn't respond well to overload. Slowly slowly catchy Pauly....


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## Jacck

I have his *3 piano sonatas* played by Glenn Gould and like them. Hindemith's unique harmonic language seems to resonate well with me. His *organ sonatas* are great too, as are most of his other sonatas (he wrote for unusual instrumentations). Another great work I like is *Symphony for Band* or *Symphonia Serena* or *Der Schwanendreher*.


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## elgar's ghost

Robert Pickett said:


> I have neither of those, but I suspect I have the same excerpts as you do, the Morgenmusik from Plon and the Suite from Tuttifantchen, both in the CPO/Albert set. The latter also with Sancta Susanna on Chandos (I wouldn't buy the Wergo Susanna, £15 for a 40 minute CD, c'mon!) Both likeable, especially the Ploner Musiktage stuff - a consummate example of his Gebrauchsmusik, surely? - but yes, as you say, not essential.
> 
> I am woefully short on his chamber music, but I suspect Hindemith is the sort that doesn't respond well to overload. Slowly slowly catchy Pauly....


Yes, I can appreciate that, bearing in mind how prolific he was.

In general I prefer Hindemith's chamber music to all else when taken as a body of work - there was hardly an instrumental combination he didn't compose for, and I like what that kind of diversity brings. There are few chamber works of his which I don't have (please see below), but obtaining them would mean duplication elsewhere which is something I try to avoid - hearing them on youtube is sufficient when it comes to plugging the gaps in this instance, especially as the total playing time for the pieces below amounts to less than forty minutes:

Sonata for solo cello (1922)
Sonata for solo harp (1939)
_A Frog He Went A-Courting_ - variations on an old English nursery song for cello and piano (1941)
Sonata for double bass and piano (1949)


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## flamencosketches

I had no intention to check out this composer at this point in time, especially after having read Jan Swafford's unflattering description of him and his music in his Vintage Guide. But I found this CD for cheap at a local record store:









Cover caught my eye, it was cheap, so I figured what the hell. Listening to the Symphonic Metamorphosis. Not too bad so far.

Any fans here? This thread has been dead the better part of a year.

Edit: Want to update my post to clarify the bit about Swafford's book. What he says is that earlier in the century ('50s, '60s, '70s I'm guessing) Hindemith was seen as having a higher stature, often mentioned among names like Stravinsky, Bartók, and Schoenberg as the big names of the Modern era. But that with time and the development of music in the later parter of the 20th century, his status degraded on account of his conservatism not being a good fit with the direction music would take after that, and thus he was kind of forgotten. Is this a fair assessment? I wasn't alive then and couldn't say, but I'm curious.


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## starthrower

Why bother with critics? Listen to the music and decide for yourself. Hindemith wrote a lot of quality music. Loads of chamber music, orchestral, and opera. The 3 disc orchestral set conducted by Blomstedt is a good place to start. The Kammermusik sets by Chailly or Abbado are also recommended. And there are the string quartet on Naxos.


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## arpeggio

Our community orchestra programmed the _Symphonic Metamorphosis_ a few years ago. From a musicians point of view it was very challenging and really fun to play.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Why bother with critics? Listen to the music and decide for yourself. Hindemith wrote a lot of quality music. Loads of chamber music, orchestral, and opera. The 3 disc orchestral set conducted by Blomstedt is a good place to start. The Kammermusik sets by Chailly or Abbado are also recommended. And there are the string quartet on Naxos.


When I read that book (which is kind of a survey of different composers and eras in music, and is generally more objective than what I described), I knew next to nothing about classical music, and didn't know where to start. Otherwise I agree with that assessment and never bother reading reviews, music magazines and the like.

I'll look into those records you described. This Blomstedt CD I picked up I think is a decent place to start. But I am especially curious now about the quartets.

Hindemith is a strange composer. Does anyone else hear a kind of mechanical/machine-like quality to his orchestral music? Everything has this driving rhythm... very interesting.


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## Art Rock

flamencosketches said:


> I had no intention to check out this composer at this point in time, especially after having read Jan Swafford's unflattering description of him and his music in his Vintage Guide. But I found this CD for cheap at a local record store:
> 
> View attachment 117440
> 
> 
> Cover caught my eye, it was cheap, so I figured what the hell. Listening to the Symphonic Metamorphosis. Not too bad so far.
> 
> Any fans here?


If I could keep only one of my Hindemith CD's, it would be this one.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Hindemith is a strange composer. Does anyone else hear a kind of mechanical/machine-like quality to his orchestral music? Everything has this driving rhythm... very interesting.


I don't hear "mechanical" but yes there are rhythmically driven pieces as in Kammermusik No. 1. There is lyricism as well. Mathis der Maler, which exists in symphonic form as well as the opera. The sonata for solo harp, Trauermusik, Der Schwanendreher. His best quartet is probably the Op.22 which was originally numbered 3 but is now known as No.4. There are good complete modern sets by the Danish Quartet on CPO, and the Amar Quartet on Naxos.


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## flamencosketches

I'll seek out one or the other. Thanks. 

I don't know if mechanical is the right word, because his music does sound quite "organic" too. Everything just has a strange and interesting drive to it. Worth noting, I guess, is that I hear something similar in some of Stravinsky's neoclassical works like the violin concerto and the Symphony of Psalms.


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## starthrower

The Stravinsky comparison usually comes up when discussing Hindemith who was a teenager when Stravinsky's ballets were making their mark in the early part of the 20th century.


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## flamencosketches

I don't see his music as directly descendant from Stravinsky's, but I would be surprised if there wasn't at least some influence. Then again, who wasn't influenced by Stravinsky, directly or indirectly, during the 20th century... maybe not a very useful comparison to make.


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## starthrower

He was drawing more inspiration from the baroque and Bach. Stravinsky claimed inspiration from Mozart. Anyway, I just pulled out my Brilliant Classics orchestral set of Hindemith works to do some listening. I also have a couple of his operas. And I just remembered I bought the Glenn Gould Hindemith set on Sony. It has the three piano sonatas, several other chamber works for piano and various horns, and his song cycle Das Marienleben.


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## flamencosketches

Glenn Gould playing Hindemith... that sounds like a great match. Going to have to hear that one.


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## starthrower

I've picked up quite a few of the 2012 4 disc re-issue boxes of Gould including the Hindemith. They are a steal for 10 dollars.


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## flamencosketches

^I've grabbed a few as well. Beethoven sonatas and concertos. And I'm just about to grab the Schoenberg one. They are so cheap, and Gould was such a master pianist that I'm always willing to get more of his music, even if his style is not something I'm always in the mood to listen to. He has a good grip on just about (but not quite) everything he plays, amazingly, considering his unorthodox style. 

Anyway, I have since sampled a bit of his Hindemith and enjoyed it, but Schoenberg takes precedence for now.

Verdict on Hindemith, since I first resurrected this thread last month, is that he's awesome. Been really enjoying the Mathis der Maler symphony, Trauermusik, and Symphonic Metamorphosis CD with Blomstedt, and then Chailly and members of the Concertgebouw performing the Kammermusik pieces. Very good, and a very unique style. It is a shame history has somewhat neglected a once-highly-regarded composer with such an individual voice as Hindemith. 

I would love to hear more of his sonatas for various instruments and his chamber music. I enjoyed the solo viola sonata and the heckelphon trio.


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## Mandryka

Try Marienleben, Banse and Helmchen in the the first version, which came out just a couple of years ago, is excellent I think. The revised version seems less interesting to me, but people who like it like Janowitz’s recording.

But Ludus Tonalis is a masterpiece IMO, and has some exceptional performances, I can list some for you if you want to explore the places I’ve been.


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## joen_cph

I've maybe recommended it here before, but for truly 'Grand' Hindemith, the _Harmonie der Welt _symphony with Mravinsky.

Some of his works I just don't get, including _Ludus Tonalis_ ... but there are further, intriguing early piano cycles too, however - rather novelistic at times.


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> Try Marienleben, Banse and Helmchen in the the first version, which came out just a couple of years ago, is excellent I think. The revised version seems less interesting to me, but people who like it like Janowitz's recording.
> 
> But Ludus Tonalis is a masterpiece IMO, and has some exceptional performances, I can list some for you if you want to explore the places I've been.


Yeah, go ahead and list some of them. The Ludus Tonalis seems like a massive work that I'm not sure I'll be able to crack at this early phase of understanding Hindemith's music, but I'll always give something a shot.

As for the Marienleben, I will go for that Banse. She is a beautiful singer of Alban Berg's lieder so I'm sold.






This is a beautiful song. Almost impressionistic, no?


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## millionrainbows

My first encounter with Hindemith was this Glenn Gould recording. It is very lovely, and soothing, with a cool detachment. Gould remarked that "it was more fun to play than to listen to."






His ideas on dissonance and tonality are fascinating; I need to get the book.


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## Mandryka

For Ludus Tonalis I enjoyed, in different ways, the recordings by Siglind Bruhn, Hans Petermandl (the first recording on Supraphon), Sviatoslav Richter, Anatoly Vedernkov (I can let you have a transfer), Boris Berezowsky and maybe Bernard Roberts does some interesting things too. These are in no particular order. 

As far as « cracking it » goes, it’s no more necessary for a listener to work at it that with f.e. Art of Fugue. A good performance will make it speak for itself from an expressive point of view. Though having said that there is a knack to listening to polyphony for sure, but I’d have thought that this is no less accessible to hear than Bach’s counterpoint. 

I just dug out the first Petermandl and I’ve been listening to it while typing. It’s really very good!

There’s another piano piece which I remember enjoying a lot, the op 26 suite « 1922 » I’ve never really explored the sonatas or the Kammermusick or the octet, though I can sense that they are not without interest. I don’t know the quartets at all. I saw Mathis Der Maler in Covent Garden, a Peter Sellars production I think, I thought it was so boring that I would die of boredom.


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## joen_cph

I've got _Ludus Tonalis _with Mandel on Supraphon too, plus a similar LP where he plays piano cycles. Guess it's time for another listen these days.

An old Swedish LP recording by Jane Carlson wasn't very interesting IMO. I've also got a budget Point CD version with Dieter Goldmann.


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## Mandryka

Yes, I got to know about Hans Petermandel through Premont, who's also in Denmark, I'd never heard of him before, I wonder if he's a pianist who was well promoted in Scandinavia but less so elsewhere.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> Yeah, go ahead and list some of them. The Ludus Tonalis seems like a massive work that I'm not sure I'll be able to crack at this early phase of understanding Hindemith's music, but I'll always give something a shot.
> 
> As for the Marienleben, I will go for that Banse. She is a beautiful singer of Alban Berg's lieder so I'm sold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a beautiful song. Almost impressionistic, no?


Gould also recorded the unrevised Marienleben -- in fact I think those are the only two recordings of it. Some people don't like the sound of Gould's singer, but it's well worth a try. These are reasons for subscribing to a streaming service.


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## flamencosketches

Yeah, I have Apple Music and the free version of Spotify, but I don't like them. Most often I stream music on youtube.

Please feel free to send me that transfer of Ludus Tonalis (Vedernkov). I'd love to check it out. Is it a rip from vinyl?

The Kammermusik is quite good. I can recommend Chailly with (members of) the Royal Concertgebouw as that's the one I've been enjoying, but maybe there are other good ones out here. A few have told me about the great quartets cycle from the Danish String Quartet, as well as the Amar Quartet which I believe Hindemith himself was in (or maybe they took their name from his old quartet). The latter is on Naxos and pretty cheap, I think I will probably get that one eventually.


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## Mandryka

I'll put the Vedernikov in a PM


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> Yes, I got to know about Hans Petermandel through Premont, who's also in Denmark, I'd never heard of him before, I wonder if he's *a pianist who was well promoted in Scandinavia* but less so elsewhere.


Not as far as I know. I had never heard of Petermandel before, but got hold of the Supraphon Ludus Tonalis around 1975 at a dealer who had a lot of Supraphon LPs. Unfortunately I did not digitize it but parted with it. Fortunately Petermandel rerecorded the Ludus for Marco Polo, a recording which is at least as good or even better.


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## flamencosketches

Really good work!

Any other favorites among Hindemith's chamber music? It was something of a specialty of his.


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## flamencosketches

Just picked up this CD. This is a great performance from the great local symphony orchestra, but it was actually conductor Robert Shaw who commissioned this work back in 1946 in honor of the late FDR. Hindemith must have caught some feelings for his then-recent adoptive homeland, writing something of a Requiem in English, a setting of a text by Walt Whitman relating to the death of Abraham Lincoln.

Anyway, this is a halfway decent choral/orchestral work, and maybe something that is not quite as well known as some of his other works. Any fans? I'm not sure how many other recordings are out there, but I say this is the one to get.


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## elgar's ghost

I can listen to this one when I have one of my Hindemith binges but it doesn't get heavy rotation - the work holds no terrors but I simply prefer other things by him. A far chewier challenge for me was _Das Unaufhorliche_ (_The One Perpetual_) - a near 90 minute-long oratorio from 1931 set to an epic Blake-like poem on God, art, science etc. by Gottfried Benn. It still remains a bit of a tough nut but I prefer it to _When Lilacs_… which I find a little syrupy. I remember one wag translating the title of _Das Unaufhorliche_ as _The Never-Ending_! The recording below remains the only release as far as I know.


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## flamencosketches

Very interesting... I'm not familiar with this one at all. What a prolific composer. 

Who is performing in the CD you linked?


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## elgar's ghost

Ulrike Sonntag - soprano
Robert Wörle - tenor
Siegfried Lorenz - baritone
Artur Korn - bass
Rundfunk-Chor Berlin
Rundfunk-Kinderchor Berlin
Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin, conducted by Lothar Zagrosek


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## CnC Bartok

elgars ghost said:


> I can listen to this one when I have one of my Hindemith binges but it doesn't get heavy rotation - the work holds no terrors but I simply prefer other things by him. A far chewier challenge for me was _Das Unaufhorliche_ (_The One Perpetual_) - a near 90 minute-long oratorio from 1931 set to an epic Blake-like poem on God, art, science etc. by Gottfried Benn. It still remains a bit of a tough nut but I prefer it to _When Lilacs_… which I find a little syrupy. I remember one wag translating the title of _Das Unaufhorliche_ as _The Never-Ending_! The recording below remains the only release as far as I know.


I had Das Unaufhorliche translating as "The Unlistenable to", if that helps! (#122) It is indeed a tough nut to crack, but I have been persevering, and it's worth it!


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## joen_cph

sorry, deleted .............................


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## elgar's ghost

CnC Bartok said:


> I had Das Unaufhorliche translating as "The Unlistenable to", if that helps! (#122) It is indeed a tough nut to crack, but I have been persevering, and it's worth it!


Ah, so you did! I eventually managed to snare a used copy of _The Unlistenable To_ for a reasonable price which was too good an opportunity to pass up - it was one of my most sought-after Hindemith gap-fillers.


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## CnC Bartok

elgars ghost said:


> Ah, so you did! I eventually managed to snare a used copy of _The Unlistenable To_ for a reasonable price which was too good an opportunity to pass up - it was one of my most sought-after Hindemith gap-fillers.


Well, keep aufhoring to it (?) and I'm sure you and I will get there....:lol:


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## starthrower

I have a cheap re-issue on Apex of organ works that are really good. And I like his operas, although I only own recordings of Mathis Der Maler, and Das Nusch-Nuschi. I have to look for a used copy of Cardillac that's out of print. I haven't heard any of his choral music. Other than that I usually listen to the orchestral works by Kegel or Blomstedt. I haven't heard any of the CPO recordings.


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## philoctetes

Monteux has a fine NV on M&A, but youtube has the composer himself


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## elgar's ghost

starthrower said:


> I have a cheap re-issue on Apex of organ works that are really good. And I like his operas, although I only own recordings of Mathis Der Maler, and Das Nusch-Nuschi. I have to look for a used copy of Cardillac that's out of print. I haven't heard any of his choral music. Other than that I usually listen to the orchestral works by Kegel or Blomstedt. I haven't heard any of the CPO recordings.


Presumably you have the Wergo recording of _Das Nusch-Nuschi_, Starthrower? Pity the libretto didn't come with an English translation - there isn't even a synopsis to help one along.

Which recording of _Cardillac_ interests you? If it's the feted Keilberth release on DG then a libretto doesn't come with that, either - but I found one online in German and had it auto-translated (after a fashion). There appear to be mixed reviews of the Wergo recording (like their recording of _Das Nusch-Nuschi_ it includes a German-only libretto and no synopsis).


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## starthrower

Yeah, I have the Wergo. I suppose there aren't a lot of great choices for these operas. I was looking for the Cardillac on DG. And I have the Kubelik MDM.


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## flamencosketches

I've heard nothing of his operas. Are they good? It seems none of them have entered the larger repertory, as they say. 

I like the Mathis Der Maler symphony, but I'm not sure how well it would work as a full opera.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> I've heard nothing of his operas. Are they good? It seems none of them have entered the larger repertory, as they say.
> 
> I like the Mathis Der Maler symphony, but I'm not sure how well it would work as a full opera.


Is there a "larger repertory" as far as performances at the Met, or other famous opera houses? There are many fine operas beyond Puccini, Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, etc.. But the warhorses are programmed constantly.


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## CnC Bartok

flamencosketches said:


> I've heard nothing of his operas. Are they good? It seems none of them have entered the larger repertory, as they say.
> 
> I like the Mathis Der Maler symphony, but I'm not sure how well it would work as a full opera.


Mathis the opera is one of my favourite 20th century operas. It's very moving, especially towards the end. The Symphony is effectively lifted from the Prelude, an interlude towards the end, and the scene in the Odenwald, where the main protagonist has his enlightening visions. Hairs on back of neck standing up! Quite scary stuff!

Cardillac is great music, unpleasant story. There's a Deutsch Grammophon DVD of it conducted by Wolfgang Sawallisch. Worth seeking out! I have never managed to develop any love for Die Harmonie der Welt, in either of its incarnations,, but I suspect it's a better opera than it gets credit for?


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## Mandryka

I saw a Peter Sellars production of Mathis der Maler in Covent Garden once and I thought I was going to die of boredom.


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## CnC Bartok

Mandryka said:


> I saw a Peter Sellars production of Mathis der Maler in Covent Garden once and I thought I was going to die of boredom.


Perhaps he should have stuck with his Inspector Clouseau films? :devil:

Sorry, I'll get me coat.....


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Is there a "larger repertory" as far as performances at the Met, or other famous opera houses? There are many fine operas beyond Puccini, Mozart, Wagner, Verdi, etc.. But the warhorses are programmed constantly.


If he does have operas widely programmed in those kind of places, then I apologize, but I didn't realize, because I never hear about big opera houses putting on Hindemith. But I'm not much of an opera guy at all. I'll certainly take your word for it that there are more great operas out there beyond the big names, and I didn't mean any slight by saying that I didn't think that Hindemith's operas had quite hit the big time. I just know there are some great composers in other genres who have written operas that are a bit subpar and never really took off (Schubert and Mendelssohn are a few that come to mind).

Anyway, I'll probably end up checking out Mathis at some point since I like the symphony so much. Hindemith is definitely a versatile composer. I wouldn't be surprised if he could pull off an opera.


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## elgar's ghost

flamencosketches said:


> I've heard nothing of his operas. Are they good? It seems none of them have entered the larger repertory, as they say.
> 
> I like the Mathis Der Maler symphony, but I'm not sure how well it would work as a full opera.


As you said yourself Hindemith was prolific - I am not wanting to sound patronising but please walk before you run.


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## flamencosketches

:lol: I don't intend to rush out and buy Hindemith's complete operas on DVD. I was just curious, since Starthrower had brought it up, and one doesn't often hear of this side of his career. Excuse me if I sound eager. I get obsessive about music, and it's a cool feeling, going quickly from not knowing anything about a composer to really enjoying their music. 

There is not much information about the music of Hindemith online, so what little I know I've pretty much gleaned from the opinions of others here on TC.


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## starthrower

These days there's so much good stuff on YouTube, so if you've got a Smart TV and a decent sound system you can listen to dozens of operas there to get a feeling for what appeals to you. Hindemith is no Wagner as an opera composer but who is? You can't just rely on Met broadcasts because you might never hear great operas by Britten, Janacek, Enescu, Shostakovich, and many others. Hindemith had a couple of short operas in addition to Mathis Der Maler that are quite entertaining.


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## elgar's ghost

flamencosketches said:


> :lol: I don't intend to rush out and buy Hindemith's complete operas on DVD. I was just curious, since Starthrower had brought it up, and one doesn't often hear of this side of his career. Excuse me if I sound eager. I get obsessive about music, and it's a cool feeling, going quickly from not knowing anything about a composer to really enjoying their music.
> 
> There is not much information about the music of Hindemith online, so what little I know I've pretty much gleaned from the opinions of others here on TC.


My apologies, Flam - I could have worded my post much better as it looked more negative than I intended. I like your enthusiasm (especially for Hindemith as he has little enough support around here) as it reminds me of how I was some time ago, but I was only a little anxious that you might reach a kind of saturation point which could have an effect on your long-term enjoyment - something which has happened to me in the past with one or two composers. Sorry again - I wasn't trying to tell you what to do and I look forward to further posts from you in this thread.


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## flamencosketches

No harm done my friend :cheers: I definitely do understand where you're coming from. Many times have I been burned out on music, whether it's a particular composer or a work, or a recording, etc. So I know I would do well to avoid that. 

In any case I appreciate all the advice and recommendations from you, in this thread and others.


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## flamencosketches

Favorite recordings of Hindemith's piano sonatas? I'm thinking of going for the Gould. I like what I've heard.






I enjoyed this video. Gould was born to be a broadcaster.


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

Gould is a good choice for the sonatas - at least he recorded all three before his advocation for them cooled. Pity he never had a crack at _Ludus Tonalis_, though.


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## Larkenfield

flamencosketches said:


> Favorite recordings of Hindemith's piano sonatas? I'm thinking of going for the Gould. I like what I've heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I enjoyed this video. Gould was born to be a broadcaster.


Tremendous explanation and performance! The best 20th century fugue I've heard. It seems like an inevitable idea to bring the fugue into the modern era and his is so meaty and a great example.


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## Littlephrase

What an amazing fugue (and performance). Reminds me why I love Hindemith, a major composer whose status as such has fallen precipitously since his death. To think that at the time of this Gould performance, Hindemith was widely regarded as one of the truly great composers of the century. Now? Not so much. 

I don’t know. Maybe I’m off the mark here.


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## Gallus

Hindemith has become one of my favourite composers recently. The string quartets, Ludus Tonalis and the violin concerto are some of the greatest works of the 20th century IMO. 

Making a point to explore his chamber works and concertos more thoroughly.


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## flamencosketches

Hindemith was probably the all-around great chamber music writer of his century. I share the sentiment that it's a crime how much he's been neglected in the decades since his death. I have really grown to love his rich, unique musical language. One can usually pick out a Hindemith piece within seconds.






Here is another enjoyable video on Hindemith.

@Lark & Littlephrase, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. I thought it was a great video.


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## Mandryka

By coincidence I listened to this today, Ivo Janssen's recording of Ludus Tonalis. He's very good at counterpoint, and in the preludes you can hear his experience with jazz, something that's a good thing in Hindemith maybe.


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## millionrainbows

Mandryka said:


> View attachment 122246
> 
> 
> By coincidence I listened to this today, Ivo Janssen's recording of Ludus Tonalis. He's very good at counterpoint, and in the preludes you can hear his experience with jazz, something that's a good thing in Hindemith maybe.


This is an MP3. The original CD goes for $55 on Amazon.

It seems like this is Hindemith's version of WTC.


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## premont

millionrainbows said:


> This is an MP3. The original CD goes for $55 on Amazon.
> 
> It seems like this is Hindemith's version of WTC.


FLAC download here ca.. 13 EURO's:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7939005--hindemith-ludus-tonalis


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## Mandryka

Yes the version on Globe is identical to the one on VOID, which seems to be his own label operating out of the Janssenbeton


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## Dirge

It turns out that I'm a populist when it comes to Hindemith, as my favorite Hindemith works are his "most popular works" according to ArchivMusic-even my favorite recordings are by and large in the mainstream …

*String Quartet No. 4, Op. 22* (1921)
:: Zehetmair Quartett [ECM '06]
If the Zehetmair Quartett's performance weren't so darn gripping and compelling, I'd accuse the group of playing too freely and flexibly. The members of the group memorize their parts, allowing them to play more spontaneously and in the moment, but they also generate/maintain tension and hold the work together remarkably well in the process. Only the slightly too distant and too resonant recording gives cause for complaint. With this and its earlier recording of the Bartók 4th [ECM '99], the Zehetmair Quartett has made two of the great string quartet recordings of modern times-and I might easily have included its recording of Schumann's 1st [ECM '01].

*Concert Music for Strings and Brass* (1930)
:: Bernstein/Israel PO [DG, live '89]




This is one of Bernstein's famously/infamously extreme late recordings: in this case, a slow, intently serious, big-boned and sonorous affair that seeks to extract as much expression from the music as humanly possible. It doesn't seem like an obvious approach to the music of such a deadpan composer, but it works for me here. Whether this is my favorite account of the work on record, I'm not sure, but it provides the most food for thought. For a more brilliant and unflinchingly virtuosic approach, Steinberg/BSO [DG '71] is tough to beat, while Hindemith/Philharmonia [EMI '56] is surprisingly effective in its boringly serious Hindemithian sort of way.

*Symphony "Mathis der Maler"* (1934)
:: Steinberg/PSO [Capitol '56]




At any given moment, this comes across as a well-tempered middle-of-the-road performance of no great consequence, but over the long haul it generates great cumulative impact thanks to Steinberg's savvy control of tension/suspense/drama, crafty climax building, and classical sense of balance and proportion-and his phrasing is very much to my liking. As such, it's not a performance that immediately grabs you by the collar and commands you to listen; rather, it's a deceptive and insidious affair that gradually sucks you in and seduces you … quite different from Steinberg's more bravura-based and sonically splendid but shallower and less involving remake with the BSO [DG '71].

*Violin Concerto* (1939)
:: Gitlis, Rosbaud/SWF SO Baden-Baden [SWR '62] Hänssler




Oistrakh/Hindemith/LSO [Decca '62] is the knee-jerk recording recommendation for the Hindemith Violin Concerto, but I've long liked this Gitlis/Rosbaud/SWF account about as much in its very different way. Oistrakh has that sovereign Oistrakh tone, of course, but Hindemith leads a somewhat deliberate, heavy, foursquare accompaniment. The leaner & meaner Gitlis gives a more nimble and quicksilver and swashbuckling performance that's as well phrased if not as tonally opulent. Rosbaud and company provide good support in absolute terms, but it's not up to the team's usual standards, being less keenly alert and energetic than expected. Stern/Bernstein/NYPO [Columbia '64] is an excellent alternative for listeners who want the work played to the hilt as if it were a Romantic warhorse; the pace is quite slow, but the playing is more than highly charged and exciting enough to sustain it.

*Symphony in E-flat major* (1940)
:: Boult/LPO [Everest '58]




I'm not sure whether Boult loves or hates this symphony, but it elicits one of his (and the LPO's) finest efforts on record … and the recorded sound is superb to boot. The playing isn't uncommonly dynamic or severe or anything like that, but it is uncommonly focused and concentrated, bringing out the intricacies of the writing through fine internal coordination and choreography of parts. Indeed, it sounds like a performance that Hindemith himself would have directed had he been a much much better conductor; even the LPO's faintly gray/bland tone makes one think "Hindemith."

*Symphonic Metamorphosis of Themes by Carl Maria von Weber* (1943)
:: Kubelik/CSO [Mercury '53]




I'm not the biggest fan of _Symphonic Metamorphosis_, but this straightforward and intense yet deftly characterized performance powerfully presents the work in all its unaffected and unsentimental glory-no treacly crowd-pleasing affectations here (not that I have anything against treacly crowd-pleasing affectations, mind you). A powerhouse orchestra is needed to pull off such an approach, and the CSO is that, playing so well that no makeup is needed to make it look presentable. All that said, I haven't listened to very many recording of this work, so this is the least informed of my favorite Hindemith recordings.


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## starthrower

I don't think I've heard the violin concerto. Will have to give it a listen. His organ concerto is another good piece. And the Kammermusik 1-7 on EMI.


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## adrien

I've tried a few times to listen to his concerto. I love his Trauermusik.

But the concerto I can't get into, it seems a bit disconnected to me, just a sequence of disjoint /disconnected ideas, which never find any kind of real emotion for me. And all the recordings seem to have major intonation problems. Did he use quarter-tones?

Overall I found it very unrewarding.


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## Neo Romanza

Over the years, Hindemith has become one of my favorite composers. I think his neglect, especially over the perhaps 20 years (or longer) has been regretful. He's a truly unique composer with a singular voice (you can recognize his music in only a few measures). I think one of the most difficult things for many to get past is the fact that he was a composer that wrote in such a wide variety of styles and sometimes these styles were juxtaposed within the same work. He began as somewhat of a musical enfant terrible in that he wrote music that shocked his audiences (_Sancta Susanna_ anyone?) and his style was Expressionistic. He soon found himself in hot water and his style became more streamlined, Neoclassical and his later works have a more lyrical sound-world where he has reincorporated some of the lushness from his earlier period works. It seems people can't quite understand how his style changed or they simply don't understand the musical language. I find that the more time spent with his music, the more rewards the listener will receive.


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## Kreisler jr

I think Hindemith was quite highly regarded in the 1950s and around his death in the early 1960s, especially in Germany, but as shown by recordings his stuff was also played and recorded by American orchestras. He might have been a bit overrated 70 years ago but that he fell from almost the equal of Bartok and Stravinsky into a niche is certainly regrettable.


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## Neo Romanza

Kreisler jr said:


> I think Hindemith was quite highly regarded in the 1950s and around his death in the early 1960s, especially in Germany, but as shown by recordings his stuff was also played and recorded by American orchestras. He might have been a bit overrated 70 years ago but that he fell from almost the equal of Bartok and Stravinsky into a niche is certainly regrettable.


It's interesting you mentioned Stravinsky as he called Hindemith "a genius", but, yes, it seems that during his lifetime he achieved considerable success and rightfully so. But it seems that nowadays, he's fallen by the wayside and I seldom see any of his works on concert programs anymore. I'm not sure I agree about the whole "niche" comment of yours since I'm of the opinion that classical music in general is niche, especially now. When I tell people I listen to classical music, they seem to always look confused like I just said a word to them in a language that they don't understand.


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## arpeggio

I live in the Washington, DC area and have attended several performances of his works over the past few years.

When Slatkin was with the National Symphony he programed several of his works.

I have heard some of his chamber music at recitals.

I have also heard the Army and Marine bands perform his _Symphony in Bb for Band_.


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## Neo Romanza

arpeggio said:


> I live in the Washington, DC area and have attended several performances of his works over the past few years.
> 
> When Slatkin was with the National Symphony he programed several of his works.
> 
> I have heard some of his chamber music at recitals.
> 
> I have also heard the Army and Marine bands perform his _Symphony in Bb for Band_.


Very nice. What are some of your favorite Hindemith works?


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## arpeggio

Neo Romanza said:


> Very nice. What are some of your favorite Hindemith works?


People keep asking me questions like this and I do not know how to answer them.

There are a few works I do not care for like the _Pittsburgh Symphony_. Honestly, I like over 90% of the works of Hindemith I am familiar with. I have 158 recordings of his music in my library.

My favorite band work is the _Symphony in Bb_.


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## Highwayman

I just inspected the event records of my local orchestra (IDSO). Apparently they did not programme anything big (there is one _Trauermusik _performance in 2020) by Hindemith since 2014. This is very unsettling for me. Not only because Hindemith was one of the greatest composers of the past century but he also founded the first Modern conservatory in Turkey thus basically he is the father of the Turkish classical music. Show some respect!


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## Nawdry

Neo Romanza said:


> Over the years, Hindemith has become one of my favorite composers. I think his neglect, especially over the perhaps 20 years (or longer) has been regretful. He's a truly unique composer with a singular voice (you can recognize his music in only a few measures). I think one of the most difficult things for many to get past is the fact that he was a composer that wrote in such a wide variety of styles and sometimes these styles were juxtaposed within the same work. He began as somewhat of a musical enfant terrible in that he wrote music that shocked his audiences (_Sancta Susanna_ anyone?) and his style was Expressionistic. He soon found himself in hot water and his style became more streamlined, Neoclassical and his later works have a more lyrical sound-world where he has reincorporated some of the lushness from his earlier period works. It seems people can't quite understand how his style changed or they simply don't understand the musical language. I find that the more time spent with his music, the more rewards the listener will receive.


Hindemith's music (e.g. _Metamorphoses on Themes of Weber_) profoundly influenced my early musical development and the course of my life from early adolescence. "Neoclassical" is a curious term that I think merits more discussion and definition. Hindemith, among many other 20thC composers, represented a force creatively expanding the boundaries of inherited classical-music tonality, harmony, and form consistent with the continuing organic evolution of musical construction.


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## Nawdry

Dirge said:


> It turns out that I'm a populist when it comes to Hindemith, as my favorite Hindemith works are his "most popular works" according to ArchivMusic-even my favorite recordings are by and large in the mainstream …


To any listing of Hindemith's "greatest" or "most popular" works I would add his powerful ballet music suite _Nobilissima Visione_ ...


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## scott.stucky48

The first 20th-c. composer I came to appreciate (in high school, c.1965. through a few sonatas and the E-flat Symphony by Boult.) I still think he is the greatest musical polymath of the century. His relative obscurity is shameful.


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