# Make your own pretentious statement on music!



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

These recent threads gave me this quite innovative, intellectually enriching and cutting edge idea:
http://www.talkclassical.com/23561-art-verbiage.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/23509-dancing-about-architecture.html

You can say anything about music, as long as its long winded, laden with jargon and gobbledigook, equivocal and pretentious, and so on. In other words, the words are more important than the message.

Here is one of mine to start off:

_In annulling his dedication of the work to Napoleon, Beethoven transformed his Eroica symphony into an emotionally heightened discourse on the opposition of the composer to Napoleonic hegemony._

*Resources for this thread: Roget's Thesaurus (a boon to us in our uni days when we where made to use fancy words in place of simple ones...logical aint it?)

*Prerequisites for this thread: read every book ever writen by Derrida (and that's just a start!).


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I've never heard of Derrida, so I'm scared that my statement won't be pompous or pretentious enough!! How's this??

The distinguished convalescence of intellectual superiority that arises from the thematic elements of Mozart's 41st symphony may only be veraciously appreciated by those individuals who have been fully trained in the distinct art of musical perception.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Hang on, let me dig through my older posts...


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I have never read Derrida... But anyway, here are one or two excerpts of my musings. I'm sure I've written better though (more pretentious).



> The importance of the unity implied by Mozart's derivations ... should not be obscured either by the novelty of effect he has created, nor any apparent irrelevancy and pedantry in the techniques used to show these relations. ... The result is a sonata movement, which ... is so simple as to show clearly the power and integrity of Mozart's technique and of his genius





> (Footnote) Cf. ibid, p. 156-157 for Rosen's definition of this structural [convention]. Needless to say, his dismissal of it stems from a desire of the musical dynamic to conform to a Beethovenian stereotype.





> (different essay) The sonata may therefore be seen as a juxtapositioning of the depiction of this idyll, a process of 'wandering' in the development section and a final return to Arcadia in the recapitulation.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Some more of my own:

_The schism which developed in the late 19th century between the opposing protagonists of programmatic and absolute music had far reaching synergistic effects on music throughout the Twentieth Century.

After the cessation of hostilities in 1945, there was a bifurcation among the adherents of atonality and serialism which ultimately resulted in ongoing inquiries into the philosophical basis and legitimacy of musical innovation.

One of Bruckner's greatest achievements was the organic expansion of the essence of symphonic thought, away from the strictures of Brahmsian Classicism, towards a narrative of holistic integrity wrought on a massive template which had its basis in the ongoing interchange between the spiritual and the temporal aspects of human aspiration._

****, I don't even know what the hell these mean exactly. All the better I can sit of the fence and not have to have an opinion. The third one basically means that I think Bruckner's music is TOTALLY AWESOME...or COMPLETE ********. Take your pick.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

_Viva yo._

Or let's try and sound smart with a short sentence in Latin: _Quae sublimitas Schubert scriptor music._


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## mensch (Mar 5, 2012)

This thread reminds me of the Postmodernism Generator. Which satirises the dense (and some say overcomplicated) works of Derrida, Kristeva, Deleuze and others.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

mensch said:


> This thread reminds me of the Postmodernism Generator. Which satirises the dense (and some say overcomplicated) works of Derrida, Kristeva, Deleuze and others.


This is absolutely brilliant!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The symphonic works in Bruckner's oeuvre depict an overriding metanarrative which reflects an overarching schema depicting awe and holy reverence for the Deity in an admixture of musical cogitation combining devotion to the Christian soterial formula and strict adherence to melodic and harmonic formulae promulgated by Simon Schechter, presented in the milieu of fin de siecle Vienna.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Lucidity and obfuscation are tools of equal value in purposeful communication.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Lucidity and obfuscation are tools of equal value in purposeful communication.


I gravitate towards the Henry Higgins' school of language:

"use proper English you're regarded as a freak: 
Oh why can't the English learn to speak?"


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

John Cage (United States) makes conceptual artworks and media art. By experimenting with aleatoric processes, Cage tries to increase the dynamic between audience and author by objectifying emotions and investigating the duality that develops through different interpretations.
His conceptual artworks never shows the complete structure. This results in the fact that the artist can easily imagine an own interpretation without being hindered by the historical reality. By examining the ambiguity and origination via retakes and variations, he formalizes the coincidental and emphasizes the conscious process of composition that is behind the seemingly random works. The thought processes, which are supposedly private, highly subjective and unfiltered in their references to dream worlds, are frequently revealed as assemblages.
His works feature coincidental, accidental and unexpected connections which make it possible to revise art history and, even better, to complement it. Combining unrelated aspects lead to surprising analogies. With a subtle minimalistic approach, he creates work in which a fascination with the clarity of content and an uncompromising attitude towards conceptual and minimal art can be found. The work is aloof and systematic and a cool and neutral imagery is used.
His practice provides a useful set of allegorical tools for manoeuvring with a pseudo-minimalist approach in the world of conceptual art: these meticulously planned works resound and resonate with images culled from the fantastical realm of imagination.

Generated on-line from name, country and five keywords (link).


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Music is to existence what chewing gum is to beavers.


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

_Academic language_: When scrutinizing closely the propensities and inclinations of the public, and likewise their disinclinations, one will draw some inevitable conclusions about the status quo; for example, when looking at things clearly, without exceptional malevolence or powerful pusillanimity, it is clear that Mozart is not unlike Beethoven, at least in that their music is generally seen as part of the current musical paradigm, and that seeing someone enjoying thoroughly their aesthetic creations is not an uncommon sight.

_All piffle removed_: When looking at things honestly, it is clear that, like Beethoven, Mozart is often listened to and enjoyed.

_Actual point_: Mozart is popular.

I deliberately avoid pointless pseudo-profundities like those by never analysing music much: the futile too often masquerades as the profound. As much as I would like to be able to describe in detail my personal experience with music, I am simply not a good enough writer to do so. (I question whether anyone is. As Gustav Mahler famously stated: '_ Ich weiß für mich, daß ich, solang ich mein Erlebnis in Worten zusammenfassen kann, gewiß keine Musik hierüber machen würde_'.) Orwell's essay Politics and the English Language (https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm) remains poignant today, and the effect of letting the abuse of language get too far is what Orwell attempted to illustrate with newspeak.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2013)

I love a line from "Hamlet" in which the eponymous hero describes *bad acting*... it's Shakespeare, but verbose:

"I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well - they imitated humanity so abominably".


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I love a line from "Hamlet" in which the eponymous hero describes *bad acting*... it's Shakespeare, but verbose:
> 
> "I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well - they imitated humanity so abominably".


But _CA_, there seems to be no shorter way to express the sentiment. "They were bad actors" is hopelessly inadequate.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

A_ Gold Medal of Obfuscation (GMO)_ to Manxfeeder's post on Bruckner. Wow!

Some more that aren't as good but racking my brain like this is...severely discombobulating...or like mental dessication of my cerebrum?:

_- Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique interweaves premonitions of death with imaginings of conjugal love and in terms of this it presents a metanarrative dealing with the dichotomous essence of human existence.

- Stravinsky's Rite of Spring[ is a symphonic depiction of primal urges which simultaneously overlap with practices of pagan idolatry providing for various methods of human sacrifice.

- Varese's Deserts presents the listener with an antagonizing moonscape bereft of life which is populated by portentous mechanically generated sounds notated in Morse Code._


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Well, I don't really think that the end ofthe band, can be assessed as of itself as being the end because what does the end feel like? It's like saying when you try to extrapolate the end of the universe, you say, if the universe is indeed infinite, then how - what does that mean? How far is all the way, and then if it stops, what's stopping it, and what's behind what's stopping it? So, what's the end, you know, is my question to you

or - We're very lucky in the band in that we have two visionaries, David and Nigel, they're like poets, like Shelley and Byron. They're two distinct types of visionaries, it's like fire and ice, basically. I feel my role in the band is to be somewhere in the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water

Not sure which is crazier or more pompous?


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> But _CA_, there seems to be no shorter way to express the sentiment. "They were bad actors" is hopelessly inadequate.


Yeah, Hilly, it doesn't have the same kind of "punch" does it? And we wouldn't want students of Shakespeare to actually UNDERSTAND what's being said, now would we??!!


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2013)

Sid James said:


> A_ Gold Medal of Obfuscation (GMO)_ to Manxfeeder's post on Bruckner. Wow!
> 
> Some more that aren't as good but racking my brain like this is...severely discombobulating...or like mental dessication of my cerebrum?:
> 
> ...


Now, I have to agree with his assessment of Varese here!!!!!!

Here I am, sitting in the kitchen on a balmy evening by the sea laughing my head off (plop; woops - I've just scooped to pick it back up off the floor again) at some of the pompous language which has been created on this thread. Funny.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Art Rock said:


> John Cage (United States) makes conceptual artworks and media art.


Is it okay if I actually learned something from this?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Well, it does mean you learned something from a more or less random word generator....


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Art Rock said:


> Well, it does mean you learned something from a more or less random word generator....


Wouldn't that be very Cagian?

Anyway...

The music of Ives exists in that liminal world situated between "popular" and "elite", "secular" and "sacred", "American" and "European", transversing the boundaries of these dualistic bifurcations and bringing together dialectical poles in a transgressive democratic space that subverts traditional patriarchal hierarchies even as the composer's rhetoric attempts to preserve them, thus encapsulating all of the tendencies of his age, progressive and nostalgic.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> The music of Ives exists in that liminal world situated between "popular" and "elite", "secular" and "sacred", "American" and "European", transversing the boundaries of these dualistic bifurcations and bringing together dialectical poles in a transgressive democratic space that subverts traditional patriarchal hierarchies even as the composer's rhetoric attempts to preserve them, thus encapsulating all of the tendencies of his age, progressive and nostalgic.


This actually makes sense. Should I get over to Urgent Care or check into the emergency ward directly? :lol:


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

KenOC said:


> This actually makes sense. Should I get over to Urgent Care or check into the emergency ward directly? :lol:


Makes sense to me too, it's just loaded with all kinds of unnecessary verbiage!


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Just wrote this on another thread:

On the subject of Schoenberg and serialism, it is interesting, and perhaps instructive, to note that he considered the technique of developing variation to supersede polyphony. After Bach, he says, music is fundamentally homophonic, and it is the treatment of the motives over time that provides the music with it's intellectual satisfaction, though there might be polyphonic elements to it.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Ramako said:


> Just wrote this on another thread:


Hmm, that doesn't sound pretentious to me; it's actually interesting. Doggone it, I keep learning things from these posts.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

In the light of Mozart's achievement and it's Protean variety, ancient preconceptions and received ideas fall away. How, one wonders, could he have been thought of as pre-eminently a synthesiser, a culmination of other people's work, and not as an innovator? ...He is simultaneously both kinds of artist, the as simulator and perfecter, and the innovator.

Bonus points if you read the above in the voice of William F. Buckley.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> In the light of Mozart's achievement and it's Protean variety, ancient preconceptions and received ideas fall away. How, one wonders, could he have been thought of as pre-eminently a synthesiser, a culmination of other people's work, and not as an innovator? ...He is simultaneously both kinds of artist, the as simulator and perfecter, and the innovator.
> 
> Bonus points if you read the above in the voice of William F. Buckley.


Bonus points to you for using the word Protean.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

As perhaps we might expect from such a large source, it contains not only a great number of examples [motets] which follow, and hence support, our traditional expectations of the genre; it also contains, however, a number of motets which challenge our conventional taxonomies and force us to acknowledge and engage with the great stylistic diversity and fluid conception of genre which characterised musical life in the thirteenth century.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Ramako said:


> As perhaps we might expect from such a large source, it contains not only a great number of examples [motets] which follow, and hence support, our traditional expectations of the genre; it also contains, however, a number of motets which challenge our conventional taxonomies and force us to acknowledge and engage with the great stylistic diversity and fluid conception of genre which characterised musical life in the thirteenth century.


Now you've got it, but you need to throw in the word heuristic in the future!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Some more:

_- The fundamental precis of Verdi's music is the channeling of aspirations of ideologies of national unification into symbolic parables which have settings in cultures which serve as reference points outside the geographical entity which was to become known as unified Italy.

- The symphonies of Beethoven follow a trajectory from the oppression of the ancien regime to the aspirations of the originators of Enlightenment thinking vis a vis the doctrine of the French Revolution of "liberty, equality and fraternity."

- Bela Bartok's use of folkoric elements taken from his scrupulous enquiry into the multifarious musical traditions of South-Eastern Europe resulted in his mature style which catapulted these primordial cultures into an aesthetic linked to the universal planetary language of humanity reaching beyond the physical vicissitudes of life._


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

"One can not appreciate classical music without a thorough understanding of its theory and forms."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> This actually makes sense. Should I get over to Urgent Care or check into the emergency ward directly? :lol:


I'd be scheduling tests to screen for Parkinsons' -- or at least find out if dementia is setting in 

Do like a number of these, good for a 'serious' laugh while being perfect examples of why, though I loved learning, I often enough loathed academe.... That sort of writing / talk with the seriously padding and pretentious word usage, as if those might lend 'weight of authority' to a spare and straight enough statement. Too, one hears rife throughout the energy of the on-campus 'toadying' mode; the prof has used / favors these words, terms, ergo, I'll load the paper up with 'em.

E. B. White's "Elements of style," must be a banned book in the quads housing the art crit / lit crit crowds --where things need "Inform one's sensibilities" and other such preciousness.

*It is enough to foment a wont to ditch all formalism and go for the less academic, the chaotic, the cthonic and / or the dionysian approach....*


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

sorry, redundant copy.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> E. B. White's "Elements of style," must be a banned book in the quads housing the art crit / lit crit crowds --where things need "Inform one's sensibilities" and other such preciousness.


"Elements of Style" was required reading when I got my first job out of college. It was an ancient gem then and it still is. Best of the best.

Not helpful in this thread of course. :lol:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Did I really need to dig? I possibly just made one, and with a high degree of speculative sincerity:

On Scriabin's piano music:


> To me, there is a fully realized genius at work there, bonkers though he was. I would cautiously say that his music is nearly as great as Chopin and Brahms's, but I just don't remember it all as well, and perhaps that's just because I don't know as much. Its possible though that its a little over ornamented, very organic in feel(that's why I think its so genial) but things are a little too buried hiding behind all those dark harmonies.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

^ The words that annoyed me were "cautiously" and "nearly".


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

DeepR said:


> ^ The words that annoyed me were "cautiously" and "nearly".


If its an issue of wording, its just me trying to compensate for not being able to exactly articulate my viewpoint. Some would argue that's where I should say nothing at all, but to me that sounds miserable. My brain works better when I can "think out loud."


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Not my own statement, but this one by Igor Stravinsky on his Octet for wind instruments is a gem.

_________________________

"Some Ideas About My Octuor (Octet)" - Igor Stravinsky

My Octuor is a musical object.
This object has a form and that form is influences by the musical matter with which it is composed.
The differences of matter determine the differences of form. One does not do the same with marble that one does with stone.
My Octuor is made for an ensemble of wind instruments. Wind instruments seem to me to be more apt to render a certain rigidity of the form I had in mind than other instruments - the string instruments, for example, which are less cold and more vague.
The suppleness of the string instruments can lend itself to more subtle nuances and can serve better the individual sensibility of the executant in works built on an 'emotive' basis.
My Octuor is not an 'emotive' work but a musical composition based on objective elements which are sufficient in themselves.

The reasons why I composed this kind of music for an octuor of flute, clarinet, bassoons, trumpets and trombones are the following: First, because this ensemble forms a complete sonorous scale and consequently furnishes me with a sufficiently rich register; second, because the difference of volume of these instruments renders more evident the musical architecture. And this is the most important question in all my recent musical compositions.

I have excluded from this work all sorts of nuances, which I have replaced by the play of these volumes.
I have excluded all nuances between the forte and the piano; I have left only the forte and the piano.
Therefore the forte and the piano are in my work only the dynamic limit which determines the function of the volumes in play.
The play of these volumes is one of the two active elements on which I have based the action of my musical text (which is the passive element of the composition), the other element being the movements in their reciprocal connection.
These two elements, which are the object for the musical execution, can only have a meaning if the executant follows strictly the musical text.

My Octuor, as I said before, is an object that has its own form. Like all other objects it has weight and occupies a place in space, and like all other objects it will necessarily lose part of its weight and space in time and through time. The loss will be in quantity, but it cannot lose in quality as long as its emotive basis has objective properties and as long as this object keeps its 'specific weight'. One cannot alter the specific weight of an object without destroying the object itself.

The aim I sought in this Octuor, which is also the aim I sought with the greatest energy in all my recent works, is to realise a musical composition through means which are emotive in themselves. These emotive means are manifested in the rendition by the heterogenous play of movements and volumes.
This play of movements and volumes that puts into action the musical text constitutes the impelling force of the composition and determines its form.
A musical composition constructed on that basis could not, indeed, admit the introduction of the element of 'interpretation' in its execution without risking the complete loss of its meaning.
To interpret a piece is to realise its portrait, and what I demand is the realisation of the piece itself and not of its portrait.

It is a fact that all music suffers, in time, a deformation through its execution; this fact would not be regretted if that deformation were done in a manner that would not be in contradiction to the spirit of the work.
A work created with a spirit in which the emotive basis is the nuance is soon deformed in all directions; it soon becomes amorphous, its future is anarchic and its executants become its interpreters. The nuance is a very uncertain basis for a musical composition because its limitations cannot be, even in particular cases, established in a fixed manner; for nuance is not a musical fact but a desideratum.
On the other hand, a musical composition in which the emotive basis resides not in nuance but in the very form of the composition will risk little in the hands of its executants.

I have arrived at this conclusion: when the center of gravity finds itself in the form considered as the only emotive subject of the composition, when the author puts it into such a force of expression that no other force could be added to it (such as the will or personal prediliction of the executant) without being superfluous, then the author can be considered as the only interpreter of his musical sensations, and he who is called the interpreter of his compositions would become its executant.

I admit the commercial exploitation of a musical composition, but I do not admit its emotive exploitation. To the author belongs the emotive exploitation of his ideas, the result of which is the composition; to the executant belongs the presentation of that composition in the way designated to him by its own form.

It is not at all with the view of preserving my musical work from deformation that I turn to form as the only emotive basis of a musical composition; deformation is always fatal and inevitable. I turn to form because I do not conceive nor feel the true emotive force except under co-ordinated musical sensations.
These sensations only find their objective and living expression in the form which, so to speak, determines their nature.
To understand, or rather feel, the nature of these sensations according to that form (which is, as I said, their expression) is the task of the executant.
According to his temperament, the executant will bring out, more or less plainly, the sensations which have created that form. They will establish the form of the composition.

In this case the deformation that music will inevitably suffer through time by the numerous successive manners of execution, will follow its normal path; and this path will be pointed out by the form of the composition. Then the deformation will not be in contradiction to the spirit of the music because its form will be the only guiding point for the executant.

Form, in my music, derives from counterpoint. I consider counterpoint as the only means through which the attention of the composer is concentrated on purely musical questions. Its elements also lend themselves perfectly to an architectural construction.

This sort of music has no other aim than to be sufficient in itself. In general, I consider that music is only able to solve musical problems; and nothing else, neither the literary nor the picturesque, can be in music of any real interest. The play of the musical elements is the thing.
I must say that I follow in my art an instinctive logic and that I do not formulate its theory in any other way than _ex post facto_.

___________________________

Thankfully, Stravinsky usually composed rather than wrote.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Okay, so we should conduct an experiment: find something that we all think is pretty pretentious and then do several phases of re writing it, cutting off a certain amount of extraneous verbiage. We'll see what's left then(each of the participants gets to cut off one pretentious aspect so one person doesn't do all the work).

We could even have demolition phases and a reconstruction phases.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Try this for size:.....
Rap Music” demolition phases ??
----------------------------------------------
One of my assumptions, as Williams implies, was the existence of a single genre of music called “Rap.” I therefore used my analyses of works by two specific, and rather eccentric, groups of rap artists to draw conclusions about the compositional process of rap music in general. As Williams correctly notes, “rap styles are more varied than the article suggests” and my conclusions run the risk of presenting an overly simplistic view of a genre that comprises an enormous variety of sub-genres and styles. It is true, for example, that one can hardly use the music of A Tribe Called Quest to describe standard rap practices (if one can speak of “standard practices” at all), even for the time during which the group was in its prime. 

In fairness, however, I should point out that Williams seems to make the same sorts of generalizations. The rap artists that Williams references indicate as much of a bias on his part towards late-1990’s/early 2000’s rap (Eminem, Jay-Z, Kanye West), as my own bias towards rap that was popularized a decade earlier. Preferences for a given style are not problematic, but Williams, like myself, seems to generalize his observations to “Rap Music,” sometimes ascribing to this fictitious genre characteristics that do not hold true for all rap, especially early rap (for example, his assertion that “rap music is composed for the studio” ). His trend towards generalization is most obvious in his response to my parenthetical note about the minor mode, discussed further below. Here, he aims to demonstrate that minor-mode accompaniments, such as the one to “Children’s Story,” are normative for rap music—then justifies this assertion by referencing the Billboard top ten from over 20 years after “Children’s Story” was released. True, 20 years does not seem like sufficient time for significant changes in stylistic norms, especially for musicologists and music theorists, who are accustomed to generalizing about entire centuries. But since Williams takes care to point out the explosion of styles that occurred even over the short period commonly referred to as the “golden age” of rap, his use of the 2009 Billboard chart in a discussion of late-1980’s rap is a problem. 
This discussion is not intended to defend my own assumptions by simply pointing out that Williams seems to share them. Such an ad hominem tu quoque defense would hardly be valid or productive. Rather, it points to an even larger-scale problem in rap scholarship, which is the identification of what, precisely, constitutes rap music. Of the nine minor-mode “rap” singles on the Billboard chart that Williams cites, at least one, “Heartless” by Kanye West, does not contain any rapping at all. Additionally, Williams cites as “rap artists” Erykah Badu, who does far more singing than rapping, and Bone-Thugs-n-Harmony, who also incorporate singing into their music. That Williams is able to subsume all of these songs and artists under the umbrella term “rap” speaks to the increasingly blurry boundary between rap, R & B, neo-soul, and other genres. Many popular songs from the past decade contain both singing and rapping, performed either as a collaboration between singers and rappers, or by a single artist. In many songs, the “singing” itself is closer to rapping on a steady pitch (this is the case with much of “Heartless”). One artist who is extremely difficult to categorize in this regard is Nelly, whose lines of verse tend to be chanted on a single pitch followed by an ending formula, in a manner oddly reminiscent of psalmody.
The issue of whether the search for unity is a valid analytical goal, especially regarding rap music, occupies much of Williams’s response. I agree that “unity” itself may be a poor word choice, given its music-theoretical baggage, but I prefer “coherence” to Williams’s suggested “consonance,” a term with its own rich history. A full critique of the goal of “unity” would be inappropriate in the present article and, indeed, Williams notes the extensive discussions of unity found in the work of Maus and others. Nevertheless, some discussion of the merit of locating moments of unity in rap is worthwhile here, as it may also open up areas of future study. 
------------------------------------
It goes on further (much further), but I had to stop - could't take it anymoreeeee......


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Now you've got it, but you need to throw in the word heuristic in the future!


Or hermanuetics!!


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> Okay, so we should conduct an experiment: find something that we all think is pretty pretentious and then do several phases of re writing it, cutting off a certain amount of extraneous verbiage. We'll see what's left then(each of the participants gets to cut off one pretentious aspect so one person doesn't do all the work).
> 
> We could even have demolition phases and a reconstruction phases.


Our "de-throned" Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, was a master of obfuscation and pomposity and he used to bandy about phrases like "programmatic specificities". He is one of the world's greatest bores.

On second thoughts, I should have written this in the "Personality Disorders" thread!!!:lol:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Sibelius has more programmatic specificities, than either Beethoven or Wagner............. and better pianistic skills!


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

As far as music goes, I couldn't be pretentious, even if I tried. Most of you seem to be pretty good at this.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

^ Oooch.......... but glad we are good at something!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> As far as music goes, I couldn't be pretentious, even if I tried. Most of you seem to be pretty good at this.


Oh,don't be so modest.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

One is tempted to quote Stanley Unwin on Jazz



> Who cannot apreciakers the leaders such as .Satchy. John Dodgey, Jacky in the Tea Garden, Woodman Herm, Artful Shorm, Ben Goodymamber and the boppy-mods, Charles Parky, Dizzy Glips, The Loans Monkey, Davey Brewbetter and Smiley Daves, many more to include addy finite em as to need throoty form pages to note, so suffice to say and cease it there.
> 
> So a deep enjoym of this musicool from major-blaskit spiitty throom of the trumpy,
> tricklyhow clarineppers woodwilly, tromslidy huffalow dowd, caressy fingolds strikeit
> ...


Beats all those random generators hollow.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I just did in the Wots ya listenin' to" *thread*...

/ptr


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