# Pieces that best characterize the music of a country



## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

I was recently thinking about _Finlandia_ and how it is a good example of Finnish music, and I was wondering if there are other good examples of pieces that exemplify the music of their country. I have noticed that music of certain countries (e.g. Russia, Spain) have some things that just make them sound (e.g. "Russian," "Spanish"). Are there any pieces that you guys know of that just sound very characteristic of a country?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I suspect that if I heard Finlandia on the radio without knowing what it was, I'd have no idea whatsoever that it had anything to do with Finland...


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## Mister Man (Feb 3, 2014)

George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" sounds distinctly American.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I suspect that if I heard Finlandia on the radio without knowing what it was, I'd have no idea whatsoever that it had anything to do with Finland...


That's probably true, but someone who hasn't heard Finlandia probably also hasn't heard any Finnish music. I admit that I'm not the best person to ask about Finnish music, as almost all of the Finnish music that I've heard was from Sibelius, but I know that it was meant to evoke the Finnish spirit and it has similar aspects to it as other Finnish music that I _have _heard. I've also often seen it cited as an example of Finnish nationalism.

Anyways, my post wasn't meant for debating about Finlandia's merits as an example of Finnish music; I would just like to see and listen to music that's characteristic of certain countries.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The second and fourth movements of Tchaikovsky's Fourth Symphony couldn't be anything but Russian.

Charles Ives Concord Piano Sonata has American proudly written all over it.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

KenOC said:


> I suspect that if I heard Finlandia on the radio without knowing what it was, I'd have no idea whatsoever that it had anything to do with Finland...


If I'd see scene from _La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc_ without knowing the context or seeing subtitles, I'd have no idea whatsoever that it had anything to do with Joan of Arc.

Does it mean that the actress didn't portray the character?


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

Vaughan Williams's 5th instantly evokes that English countryside feel...


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Charles Ives Concord Piano Sonata has American proudly written all over it.


I don't know. Some say that in it Ives was influenced by Scriabin. Ives denied that he knew Scriabin at the time, but it seems that there are proofs that he had listened his music. I don't know if it's true that he was influenced by the russian composer writing the sonata but frankly listening to it I don't think "ok, that's clearly the work of an american man", even if I perfectly see the originality of Ives as a composer.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I suppose Jon Leif's _Hekla_ captures the spirit of Iceland, e.g. exploding geysers and erupting volcanoes, a country where one is in constant awe of natural forces.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Certainly some American music (Gershwin, some Gould, Copland and Bernstein) has pretty much established a recognizably American idiom, easy for anybody to hear -- or so I think.

Ditto France, at least through the early 20th century. Even in the baroque, French music is usually instantly identifiable.

Ditto again Spain. Rodrigo or Falla (listen to the 2nd movement of his harpsichord concerto...)


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Coming to the 20th century, this might be a precarious situation. Where does the characterisation of a piece of music as being from a country start, and where does it stop? eg. if I find something sounds like Debussy, can I say it sounds French? Or can I say that a Mozartean piece is very Viennese?

Where do we draw the line?


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

This is a post I made in another thread about a week ago.

I frequently think about the music and its country of origin.

I like to take lots of photos when I travel. And when I return, I like to make movies by setting my still photos to music as a slide show burned to a DVD. 

So now whenever I hear these pieces I always think of images from

Pomp and Circumstance #4 and London
Ravel's Piano Concerto in G and Paris
Pines of Rome and Rome
Mahler Symphony #4 and Switzerland
Beethoven's final of Symphony #5 and Berlin
Pictures at an Exhibition and Moscow
Swan Lake and St Petersburg
Holberg Suite and Norway
Rhapsody in Blue and New York


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2014)

The "Russian" sound and the "French" sound seem most easily identifiable. Of course, if you have no experience with the music of a country, it's not going to matter, but after a short period with, say, Russian music, I couldn't imagine Shostakovich or Rimsky-Korsakov could be mistaken for anything else. Same with French music from romanticism through impressionism.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

norman bates said:


> I don't know. Some say that in it Ives was influenced by Scriabin. Ives denied that he knew Scriabin at the time, but it seems that there are proofs that he had listened his music. I don't know if it's true that he was influenced by the russian composer writing the sonata but frankly listening to it I don't think "ok, that's clearly the work of an american man", even if I perfectly see the originality of Ives as a composer.


What are the Yankee hymn tunes then that pervade the sonata, German?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Mister Man said:


> George Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" sounds distinctly American.


But the very most typically American music was of course composed by that bearded bloke from Bohemia, er, whatsisname, Džvōzsžŝhak or something... 



schuberkovich said:


> Vaughan Williams's 5th instantly evokes that English countryside feel...


Vaughan Williams is indeed so utterly English it is almost scary. Lovely music though.

I find it interesting that America managed to develop a "typically American" sound, considering what a cultural hodgepodge it is. South Africa has that same kind of diversity, and I don't think we are anywhere close to developing anything resembling a national culture.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Copland, Appalachian Spring with that great Shaker hymn tune, "It's a gift to be simple".


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Don't forget Spanish music. I think it's really easy to tell if your listening to la musica de España [even if there's no guitar involved ]

Albeniz - Iberia
Granados - Goyescas suite [from this, Los Requiembros is the ESSENCE of Spanish celebration]


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Xenakis' _Persepolis_ is synonymous with the Alberta Badlands for me. The harsh, stark landscape, the laid bare strata of rock, coal, prehistoric seabeds and dinosaur fossils... to these the music is an eerie mechanical wailing threnody to the passage of eternity.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

KenOC said:


> I suspect that if I heard Finlandia on the radio without knowing what it was, I'd have no idea whatsoever that it had anything to do with Finland...


I suppose the title Finland...ia might give the game away.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2014)

Um, the scenario is "hearing it on the radio without knowing what it was," not "hearing a dj announce it as 'Finlandia' and then listening to it."


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

musicrom said:


> _Finlandia_


I wonder if Sibelius's reputation would be overall better if the score of that piece had been lost forever. I've listen to many Finnish composers and I wouldn't say Finlandia is a good sample. I'm containing myself from ranting over many correlated subjects.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> I wonder if Sibelius's reputation would be overall better if the score of that piece had been lost forever. I've listen to many Finnish composers and I wouldn't say Finlandia is a good sample. I'm containing myself from ranting over many correlated subjects.


Okay, I apologize for ever bringing up _Finlandia_. It was just a way for me to introduce this thread. It's not really my favorite either, but it does have something to it that somehow sounds "Finnish" to me. I would rather hear a better example of truly Finnish music than argue about _Finlandia_.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Copland, Appalachian Spring with that great Shaker hymn tune, "It's a gift to be simple".


I was hoping someone would mention Copland. I think a lot of people hearing Billy the Kid think of America, particularly the America of the Old West.

I think Roy Harris' 3rd symphony sounds American; its spaciousness reminds me of those long drives through Arizona I used to make. Also, Scott Joplin's rags don't sound like they came from anywhere else.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

"Rodeo" is pretty evocative too.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

For me Music evokes a personal feeling; a mood. I don't associate it with any specific 'country', but I suppose one can be conditioned make such associations. A strange question.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2014)

Here: 




Two countries for the price of one.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

_Britain:_ A Sea Symphony by Vaughan Williams. Combining the great choral tradition of this country with sea music, which, as an island nation, we've produced a lot of over the years.

_America_: I think of three different Americas. The glamorous city life of New York would be best represented by Rhapsody of Blue. The open plains would be represented by something by Aaron Copland, and the gritty, dark side would be represented by Leonard Bernstein's music.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> Xenakis' _Persepolis_ is synonymous with the Alberta Badlands for me. The harsh, stark landscape, the laid bare strata of rock, coal, prehistoric seabeds and dinosaur fossils... to these the music is an eerie mechanical wailing threnody to the passage of eternity.


Interesting... is there any real connection between the composition and the Alberta Badlands? I've never heard of the piece, but to my knowledge, Xenakis is from Greece and Persepolis is in modern-day Iran. Does it just remind you of the Alberta Badlands, or else what connection is there?


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## otaviomagnani (Feb 14, 2013)

Brazilian here. I can't say that I know much brazilian music, but here are two of my favorites:

_Batuque_, by Oscar Lorenzo Fernandez: 




The famous_ Trenzinho do Caipira_ (The Little Train of the Brazilian Countryman):


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ha! For Spain I turn to everyone's favorite Frenchman, Debussy and his "Iberia"!


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Sometimes Verklarte Nacht (Schoenberg) sounds so desolate it seems it's from Pluto.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Ha! For Spain I turn to everyone's favorite Frenchman, Debussy and his "Iberia"!


Or Bizet's Carmen? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Or Bizet's Carmen? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Yes, some French composers apparently wrote better Spanish music then than they did French.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

musicrom said:


> ... is there any real connection between the composition and the Alberta Badlands? ... Does it just remind you of the Alberta Badlands, or else what connection is there?


Xenakis wrote it to commemorate the ancient city of Persepolis in Iran, or events that took place there. It is likely that the landscape there is as similarly stark, arid and forbidding as the one near here. I have little doubt that, if heard there, the music would be anything less than ideal. However, the music speaks to my experience of an environment in a far more powerful and meaningful fashion, as it is my own experience and not an imposed one. As I have stated in many threads, I prefer to let music speak for itself.


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## mirepoix (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm enjoying reading the examples and accounts in this thread.
An example from my my own experience would be after waking one morning on the Trans-Siberian express as it hurtled east and hearing the opening bars of Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto, all the while the window framing what seemed to be never-ending rye fields, punctuated here and there by a solitary tree or a horse and cart moving at a more leisurely pace.

Perhaps more striking was on leaving a concert hall in southern Siberia late one night, not long after an evening of what was more or less a selection of 'Greatest Hits'. The fourth movement of Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kijé was still clearly sounding in my head as I opened the door into near pitch darkness and stepped inside a heavy flurry of snow, only to have my partner carefully but quickly pull me back - so that the troika out of nowhere could race past only a few feet in front of us and then disappear.
Those sort of moments live vividly in my memory and have now almost become part of the music for me.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Sometimes composers evoke thoughts of countries other than their origins
Brahms often uses gypsy themes in his music which makes me think about Eastern European countries like Hungary when I listen to it


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Yes, some French composers apparently wrote better Spanish music then than they did French.


Spanish music was quite popular outside of Spain in that period. 
Another example is Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

GioCar said:


> Spanish music was quite popular outside of Spain in that period.
> Another example is Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol.


Yes. That's a good one!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn man said:


> Sometimes composers evoke thoughts of countries other than their origins
> Brahms often uses gypsy themes in his music which makes me think about Eastern European countries like Hungary when I listen to it


There was that whole "Austro-Hungarian" Empire thing going on.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Sculthorpe's Earth Cry might be disqualified, but it is certainly recognizable.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

shangoyal said:


> Sometimes Verklarte Nacht (Schoenberg) sounds so desolate it seems it's from Pluto.


Really? I'd take Sciarrino's La Bocca, I Piedi, Il Suono if I thought of music that sounds like it's from Pluto.


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## Symphonical (Mar 15, 2013)

I've always thought that the first main theme of the 1st movement of Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto was as Russian as it gets, really. It's got so much Russian-character I wonder if he took it from somewhere...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yeah. Sounds a bit like the "Volga Boatmen".


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

science said:


> Really? I'd take Sciarrino's La Bocca, I Piedi, Il Suono if I thought of music that sounds like it's from Pluto.


I wouldn't know, haven't heard those pieces! But I do find the Schoenberg quite desolate or maybe it was just me?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

shangoyal said:


> I wouldn't know, haven't heard those pieces! But I do find the Schoenberg quite desolate or maybe it was just me?


It opens in a dark, desolate manner, to be sure (maybe impassioned is a better word here), but I find the ending D major very warm-sounding and anything but desolate.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think the late Ravi Shankar's pieces perfectly represent India


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> It opens in a dark, desolate manner, to be sure (maybe impassioned is a better word here), but I find the ending D major very warm-sounding and anything but desolate.


Yes, you are right. It progressively gets brighter and warmer, but I find it desolate in the sense that it's quite cerebral and "icy" - there seems to be no immediate emotion in it, even though that does not prevent me from enjoying it to the fullest.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

violadude said:


> I think the late Ravi Shankar's pieces perfectly represent India


I like Ravi Shankar because without him there would be no Norah Jones.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

shangoyal said:


> Yes, you are right. It progressively gets brighter and warmer, but I find it desolate in the sense that it's quite cerebral and "icy" - there seems to be no immediate emotion in it, even though that does not prevent me from enjoying it to the fullest.


I always find Schoenberg's music emotionally white-hot, especially Verklarte Nacht. Are you familiar with the poem it's based on? The work actually follows its emotional arc quite closely.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I like Ravi Shankar because without him there would be no Norah Jones.


I like Ravi Shankar because he could do this:


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I always find Schoenberg's music emotionally white-hot, especially Verklarte Nacht. Are you familiar with the poem it's based on? The work actually follows its emotional arc quite closely.


Not very well, though I remember skimming through it. I generally prefer not following extra-musical texts. But what you say is interesting. Maybe I picked up on how he seems to express his emotion very differently. I haven't heard more of his works.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> I think the late Ravi Shankar's pieces perfectly represent India


If you add the late Nikhil Banerjee (sitarist) to that, the representation is more replete.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

To me, what makes a music 'have a local accent' is very much a matter of its melodic character first (that can be within context of a short motif as well), rhythm being as much a part of that, with harmony and form then following while trailing far behind.

There is often a trait about the melodic which comes from one area, favoring a particular length, contour, and range (note-compass,) and often _the principal stream of sound we all have heard first from our birth and all afterwards_, our spoken language, is what has influenced the choice of rhythm, length of phrase, inflected contours of line, including note-range and perhaps even a preference for certain intervals over others.

Russian melodies (vocal / folk) tend to be within a very small compass, say of a perfect fourth, and from the Slavic and eastern European countries we also get very natural sounding phrases in uneven meters. From the French we get rhythms which are often triplets, or triplets with ties, "elisions" if you will, while from the German we have the near infamous dotted eighth - sixteenth, etc.

Other than that, I think there is no 'tone poem' evoking a place which characterizes the place musically, or seems to truly come from the place unless it has a lot of those above elements in it.

Someone cited a tone poem from a Finnish (Icelandic?) composer which described the landscape, volcanoes erupting and all: I had listened to it before, and it sounded to me like generic contemporary classical / film music, "international style" and with all the literal descriptiveness one might expect more in a film score than a current concert score (you can tell I did not think much of it at all, finding it without much voice or color, and a few cheap yet sensational effects  Ergo, there was 'nothing' nationalist trait about it, anymore than Hovhaness' _Mount St. Helens Symphony_ is truly 'indigenous' to North America, The U.S. of America, or the American state of Washington.

There are more abstract and 'emotive' aspects which can identify the 'where' of music... Stravinsky said of Sibelius that he rather liked that 'Italianate' aesthetic sounding like it had 'gone North' -- i.e. cooled down in temperament. And there is more an emotional reserve -- or coolness -- to Sibelius not found in composers from lower latitudes.

But the best way is to listen to whatever you can of the music from one place, preferably repertoire spanning as much time as there is classical music history from that place (of course, also looking into the folk music therefrom), to begin to pick out for yourself what traits it all might have in common, both musically and in that more abstract realm of attitude and emotion.

ADD P.s. I tuned in to a classical FM station and a a work new to me was already in play. I was instantly charmed, and intrigued. I was excited enough by it to be walking about the room while listening, and was thinking, "It sounds Italian... no, it sounds Russian. -- back and forth, repeated all the way through while listening. Piece ended, the announcer came on, "That was the suite from Stravinsky's _Pulcinella_" ~ dilemma solved


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Someone cited a tone poem from a Finnish (Icelandic?) composer which described the landscape, volcanoes erupting and all: I had listened to it before, and it sounded to me like generic contemporary classical / film music, "international style" and with all the literal descriptiveness one might expect more in a film score than a current concert score (you can tell I did not think much of it at all, finding it without much voice or color, and a few cheap yet sensational effects  Ergo, there was 'nothing' nationalist trait about it, anymore than Hovhaness' _Mount St. Helens Symphony_ is truly 'indigenous' to North America, The U.S. of America, or the American state of Washington.
> *
> There are more abstract and 'emotive' aspects which can identify the 'where' of music... Stravinsky said of Sibelius that he rather liked that 'Italianate' aesthetic sounding like it had 'gone North' -- i.e. cooled down in temperament. And there is more an emotional reserve -- or coolness -- to Sibelius not found in composers from lower latitudes.*


This is often said of the Finnish language too. Even language can be affected by climate. In addition, I'd like to note that Sibelius' use of modes possibly makes him more "cold" sounding than others. He definitely used the Dorian mode a lot more than other composers, even more than the Russians who preferred Myxolydian, and this choice I think may have been his attempt to sound like Finnish Folk Music, which is often minor-keyed, even Dorian. Ever heard Kalevala chant? Eerie, minimalist stuff. Always minor keyed.

Sibelius also achieved some other neat effects in his music in describing "What is Finland?" In his 5th symphony, he dedicates almost a whole movement to the sound of mosquitoes, a faint chromatic tremolo in the strings for many minutes. Surely mosquito swarms are found in many other places, but as far as I know, no other composers were interested in depicting that. Finland definitely does have a lots of mosquitoes in summer though, an abhorrent level! When I was there a number of years ago, when I was on an island at dusk (10PM), the whole forest was whirring with an eerie sound that took me a while to realize was simply mosquitoes, not crickets or anything like that. With so much water everywhere, the lakes and waterfront, it is a unique feature of the land, just like birds or anything else.

Starting at 1:25 intermittently, but especially the sections starting at 3:40 and 5:24 with just the strings and solo winds:






If you're curious, no I didn't make up this interpretation, I went to the Sibelius museum in Turku, Finland where they featured the background of this symphony.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> This is often said of the Finnish language too. Even language can be affected by climate. In addition, I'd like to note that Sibelius' use of modes possibly makes him more "cold" sounding than others. He definitely used the Dorian mode a lot more than other composers, even more than the Russians who preferred Myxolydian, and this choice I think may have been his attempt to sound like Finnish Folk Music, which is often minor-keyed, even Dorian. Ever heard Kalevala chant? Eerie, minimalist stuff. Always minor keyed.
> 
> Sibelius also achieved some other neat effects in his music in describing "What is Finland?" In his 5th symphony, he dedicates almost a whole movement to the sound of mosquitoes, a faint chromatic tremolo in the strings for many minutes. Surely mosquito swarms are found in many other places, but as far as I know, no other composers were interested in depicting that.


The entire American continent has insects in the summer, and at the higher latitudes, well north in the tundra, America or Eurasia, there is a latitudinal belt with a brief season of several weeks with the insects so heavily numbered that life without protection from them has people going near insane or dying from the bites.

Lucia Dlugoszewski's _Fire Fragile Flight_ is 'about' the American middle west landscape, trees-leaves, spring - summer, and insects


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Lucia Dlugoszewski's _Fire Fragile Flight_ is 'about' the American middle west landscape, trees-leaves, spring - summer, and insects


Ah! That sounds much like Bartok's ideal of "Night Music" only more "modern"/coloristically dissonant.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I listen to some South African jazz, and I can definitely hear a musical identity. Musicians like Hugh Masekela and Abdullah Ibrahim.

As for India and Ravi Shankar, there are different schools of Indian classical music.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

hpowders said:


> What are the Yankee hymn tunes then that pervade the sonata, German?


the fifth symphony of beethoven is german and it's quoted too in the concord sonata. I mean, the style of a piece can't be reduced to those quotations.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

norman bates said:


> the fifth symphony of beethoven is german and it's quoted too in the concord sonata. I mean, the style of a piece can't be reduced to those quotations.


Wrong. The rhythmic opening of Beethoven's 5th is quoted, not the actual notes.

I just YouTubed the 3rd movement, "The Alcotts". It's right here on TC somewhere. In this movement Ives is absolutely obsessed with the Beethoven, but he doesn't quote it note for note. He takes the rhythm of it only, not the direct notes. The Concord sonata is loaded with Yankee hymn tunes and it is proudly American.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

starthrower said:


> I listen to some South African jazz, and I can definitely hear a musical identity. Musicians like Hugh Masekela and Abdullah Ibrahim.
> 
> As for India and Ravi Shankar, there are different schools of Indian classical music.


There are a Southern and Northern 'school': One is thought of as more refined and 'purely classical' than the other, though which is which, I do not know.

Shankar was a representative of the 'more brash' school, and moreover, a lot of what he performed in and for western markets was more than a little tailored to more the western idea of what Indian classical music is.

I redressed the one-sideness by dropping in a link of Nikhil Banerjee, who was of the more 'older style classical' school.

Still, though maybe not the best thread for it, we have only two sitar master musicians, missing a lot of other representative Indian music, vocalists, other instrumentalists, of which I'm guessing there are also more than 'one school.'


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I posted a link to a performance by Hariprasad Chaurasia (wooden flute) yesterday. Another sitarist of note, still active, is Debashish Bhattacharya. I heard him in concert last year and now have several of his recordings. Both musicians are on YouTube.

As for the Hindustani versus the Carnatic schools, I could never tell much difference. I'm sure there are people who can go on and on about this, though.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Baroque England


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> Baroque England]


What are all those fiddles doing? The Royal Fireworks Music is scored for 24 oboes, 12 bassoons (and a contrabassoon), nine natural trumpets, nine natural horns, three pairs of kettledrums, and side drums which are given only the direction to play "ad libitum". Best try this:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> What are all those fiddles doing? The Royal Fireworks Music is scored for 24 oboes, 12 bassoons (and a contrabassoon), nine natural trumpets, nine natural horns, three pairs of kettledrums, and side drums which are given only the direction to play "ad libitum". Best try this:


I read the composer originally wanted to score it with string orchestra but was ordered by the Master of Ceremonies (of the fireworks event) to have military wind instruments only. In any case, it returned to normal string orchestra plus wind instruments when it was again performed in normal concert halls after the first open air event.


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## Eviticus (Dec 8, 2011)

senza sordino said:


> This is a post I made in another thread about a week ago.
> 
> I frequently think about the music and its country of origin.
> 
> ...


Great idea. To me most of this music transcends a particular place.

Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue is definitely american though.
Smetena's Ma Vlast (in particular the 4th movement) to me definitely has a feel for Bohemia





Tchaikovsky's March Slave is distinctly Russian (In fact his Capriccio Italien for me captures Italy perfectly).

Although Rimsky Korsakov did a good spanish capriccio - maybe something with a classical guitar would resemble it a little better for me. Then again i maybe reverting to stereo-types as when i think of France i think of an accordian...


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

PetrB said:


> To me, what makes a music 'have a local accent' is very much a matter of its melodic character first (that can be within context of a short motif as well), rhythm being as much a part of that, with harmony and form then following while trailing far behind.


In popular music I've felt the language and it's rhythms can have an effect on melody. Much classical is instrumental though. So if there is a connection it's through use of local sounding instruments, or to folk tunes which may eventually relate to words and the local language rhythms and sounds as well.

But classical music I think is particularly universal in it's styles, whatever local colour there may be in some periods can be less important than the general style across boundaries. And it's easy to slip into caricature and stereotypes, while pushing aside music that doesn't fit into that. So some may want to push pastoral English music, or some might want noble ceremonial music or some might want more introspective modern English music. Really you can look at many sides of something but ultimately whatever style a composer uses is their own choice and could relate to any place.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

-Charles Ives' Symphony no. III & Paul Creston's Symphony no. II are quintessentially American.
-Carl Nielsen's "The Fog Is Lifting" (Danish).
-Chausson's Poeme (French).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Once upon a time, England's sound was characterized by the music of Dunstable and Power. Hard to imagine that time - before the Americas were known to Europe, when the entire Southern Hemisphere was feared to be a region of monsters, the Earth stood still in the center of a universe small enough to spin around it each day, and the doctrine of the Catholic Church was almost unchallenged, when cannons were a new thing and muskets unheard of, when Burgundy could still rival France and books were handwritten on vellum and the latest news was the fall of Byzantium. Just an amazing time, like all times of course.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

It's hard not to think of a country or place when composers have given such titles as

Somerset Rhapsody
Espana
Pines of Rome
On the Steppes of Central Asia
Finlandia
Mars


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

senza sordino said:


> It's hard not to think of a country or place when composers have given such titles as
> 
> Somerset Rhapsody
> Espana
> ...


Mars was more an astrology reference though.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

There has been little or no mention of the following countries: 
Poland, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, Turkey, Japan, China, and others. 

It would be interesting to see some more examples for other countries.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado, for Japan!!!

"If you want to know who we are,
We are gentlemen of Japan...." :clap:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Several candidates for Germany.

Richard Strauss - Die Alpensinfonie: the definition of "grand", and "overblown" (overblown in a good way, just like the mountains are), but also of the Romantic (German Romantic!) attitude of admiration and connectedness to nature, to the native landscape, especially if that landscape is as glorious as the Alps. 

Richard Wagner - Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg, both for the dramatic setting - a medieval German town and a people who, not being professional musicians, nevertheless put great value on music, and for the sheer sound: the brass, the grandeur - and the lyricism, the earnesty, the romantic longing are all there. 

Schumann's 3rd ("Rhenische") symphony. It also has a lyrical and romantic, but at the same time upbeat, energetic, get-things-done quality.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Smetana The Moldau.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I'll do a list for several countries. 

Germany - Wagner: Die Meistersinger
Spain - De Falla: Nights in the Gardens of Spain
Poland - Chopin: Rondo à la Krakowiak (thanks to Pugg for reminding me of this amazing piece the other day)
Austria - Strauss: Blue Danube Waltz
France - D'Indy: Symphony on a French Mountain Air
Finland - Sibelius: Finlandia 
Russia - Gliere: Symphony No, 3, "Ilya Muromets"
England - Elgar: The Spirit of England
Czech Republic - Dvorak: Slavonic Dances
United States - Copland: Appalachian Spring
Italy - Verdi: Nabucco (because it was often interpreted as an allegorical commentary on Italian politics)
Brazil - Villa-Lobos: Bachianas Brasileiras

I've left many countries off this list because I couldn't think of any piece that represented them perfectly - I'll update this later if I think of anything for the missing countries!


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Sibelius isn't just a guy whose works accurately describe Finland, rather he's one of the guys whose works _made_ Finland. From all his works, I think I'll choose the symphony number 6 to represent my homeland and its people.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bettina said:


> I'll do a list for several countries.
> 
> Germany - Wagner: Die Meistersinger
> Spain - De Falla: Nights in the Gardens of Spain
> ...


I wish I could perform this for just one time in my life.


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## Vox Gabrieli (Jan 9, 2017)

I didn't bother checking to see if others had posted this: Shostakovitch: _Babi Yar_ is disctinctly Russian. As well as _The Nose_, _Lady Macbeth_, et. Al. _March Slav_...


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I can't think of anything more American than Barber's 'Excursions', especially his lovely 'Streets of Laredo' mash-up.

Just a warning though: Carmen is magnificently, scowlingly, skirt-twirlingly Spanish. And Georges Bizet was....? Oui, précisément!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

musicrom said:


> There has been little or no mention of the following countries:
> Poland, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, Turkey, Japan, China, and others.
> 
> It would be interesting to see some more examples for other countries.


Amazing, up to this point nobody has mentioned either Dvorak or Bartok, composers whose music is so closely associated with their respective nations!!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> Amazing, up to this point nobody has mentioned either Dvorak or Bartok, composers whose music is so closely associated with their respective nations!!


Actually, I did mention Dvorak's Slavonic Dances in my list (post #75). But your reference to Bartok reminds me - I forgot to include Hungary in my list. My two picks for Hungary are: Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 and Bartok's Hungarian Sketches.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Bettina said:


> Actually, I did mention Dvorak's Slavonic Dances in my list (post #75). But your reference to Bartok reminds me - I forgot to include Hungary in my list. My two picks for Hungary are: Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 and Bartok's Hungarian Sketches.


Kodaly and Enesco could certainly fit in here as well.


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## StDior (May 28, 2015)

Some people in my country, including me, consider Kodaly’s Galanta dances, which music best characterizes Hungary.


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## MissKittysMom (Mar 2, 2017)

So many for Russia:
Rimsky-Korsakov, Russian Easter
Mussorgsky, Pictures at an Exhibition
Borodin, Prince Igor
Prokofiev, Piano Concerto 2

Czech, Janacek, string quartet 1

Estonia, Tubin, suite from Kratt

Everything that Satie wrote is quintessentially French

The minimalists, Glass, Reich, Adams, Riley, all could only happen in America


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Pictures at an Exhibition seems a good one for Russia. I thought initially of Tchaikovsky but for me he is a more personal than nationalistic composer (the 1812, while beautiful, is more than a little ironic). 

England has to be something by either Elgar or Vaughan Williams. 

Clair de Lune from Suite Bergamesque always makes me imagine fin-de-siecle Paris... highly evocative of France. The musical equivalent of a Monet


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Many Kabalevsky works are distinctively Russian - he penned some of the most popular tunes of the Soviet Union. Take, for instance, his 3rd Piano Concerto:






Anther prime exeample are Rybnikov's film scores. In these works you hear an undeniable innocence that can only belong to Russia. Not many know about Rybnikov, whom I consider to be one of the best film composers still around today.

*MUST HEAR:*


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