# A classical music library - the inexpensive way?



## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Hi friends,

I have decided my classical library is in a dire need of a facelift, however, I simply don't have the money to buy whatever I well please wherever...I am still a college student! Anyway, I wanted your suggestions on how you were able to build your classical music library with quality recordings inexpensively.

Have any of you tried used things on Amazon? Etc.


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

I use amazon all the time. The third party sellers section is very good, usually much cheaper than what amazon charges. Like the Bertini Mahler set, $65 usd on amazon new, $30.24 usd new from a third party seller. So, that's my recommendation!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

1) Getting a turntable and collecting LPs. One will be acquainted with the canon of artists and a vast repertoire without having to pay much. I suppose that Cincinatti must have its share of second-hand record shops also, and classical LPs were always cheap in the US. Reserve CDs for special priority repertoire/recordings. The LP-sound is usually sufficient and it can even be really great.
2) Joining a downloading company like e-music, where you get a certain number of MP3-tracks
monthly for very little money.
3) Trying to be selective, though it was not my own strongest side. Perhaps start by getting a lot of different music with substance in it, say major works by 30 selected composers, and discover what your own preferences are - what you tend to listen to again and again.
4) Brilliant Classics has some great issues, like their box sets of Russian artists and pianists. In Denmark they go for about 3,5 $ per CD, but this is about the cheapest I´ve seen anywhere. There are excellent box sets with Oistrakh, Gilels, Kremer, Sofronitsky, Mravinsky etc. etc.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Amazon has some remarkably good deals if you like MP3 at all. You can get some quite expensive DG CDs track by track for $1 per track, etc. (and if you're looking at Mahler or Bruckner, that's a boon).

For CDs, Amazon is the best there is. Arkivmusic has only full-price and only occasionally shaves a buck or two off their CDs for a sale. However, Amazon marketplace is truly remarkable (I remember getting a CD of Boulez conducting Mahler 6 and getting over 80% off at one point).


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

You could always copy/rip Discs that you loan from Libraries / Friends and build a digital collection to listen to on your Computer or MP3 Player?.


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Conor71 said:


> You could always copy/rip Discs that you loan from Libraries / Friends and build a digital collection to listen to on your Computer or MP3 Player?.


Unfortunately the library I'm at now is a bit more strict in their CD loaning policy...

So basically browsing the Amazon marketplace! Sounds like a good idea. I know what kind of things I want to start with in my expansion of my library...I was just wondering though what kind of values I could find.


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## JSK (Dec 31, 2008)

The Berkshire Record Outlet is great, especially for non-classical beginners, because they carry tons of cutouts/out of print CDs at often extremely cheap prices. Shipping can be a little much for a small purchase, but is worth it if you have a chunk of cash to spend. Not too many titles on big labels, but Hyperion tends to go for $7 and Naxos for $4. Also a lot of Harmonia Mundi and some very cheap Brilliant Classics sets on there too.

My preferred method of buying is thrift shops, but they often carry absolutely nothing of interest.

And I see you are attending CCM. I'm applying for Musicology, but have so far been way too busy to complete the application yet.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Conor71 said:


> You could always copy/rip Discs that you loan from Libraries / Friends and build a digital collection to listen to on your Computer or MP3 Player?.


This is piracy and, therefore, highly illegal for any recordings less than 50 years old and/or containing music which is in copyright. Shame on anyone who suggests music piracy and stealing from musicians!


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

eBay?

Also, BMG is still doing business on yourmusic.com where you can get CDs at $6.99 or lower when on sale (shipping included), although I find their selection extremely limited these days.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Delicious Manager said:


> This is piracy and, therefore, highly illegal for any recordings less than 50 years old and/or containing music which is in copyright. Shame on anyone who suggests music piracy and stealing from musicians!


The suggested activity - ripping library CDs for one's own use - is more accurately described as 'unauthorized copying'. If one were to distribute those copies, it would be piracy. Both actions are illegal, and also unethical, but there are degrees of shame.


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## Jules141 (Nov 20, 2009)

Spotify if you don't mind being connected to internet to listen.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I might be wrong, but I think Naxos lets you hear complete albums on their website for a subscription fee. 

I'm in a couple web groups that upload concerts and radio broadcasts. A lot of them are better than commercial recordings, and I've been able to hear pieces that it turns out I wouldn't want to have paid for.


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

Manxfeeder said:


> I might be wrong, but I think Naxos lets you hear complete albums on their website for a subscription fee.
> 
> I'm in a couple web groups that upload concerts and radio broadcasts. A lot of them are better than commercial recordings, and I've been able to hear pieces that it turns out I wouldn't want to have paid for.


I was looking into the Naxos one for awhile, but it's pretty expensive and the sound quality was pretty low unless you opted to pay a higher fee for near cd quality. I went with Rhapsody in the end, which had a respectable classical selection. It was around $9 usd a month..there's a free 14 day trial, definitely recommend it for music fans on a budget.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

David58117 said:


> I was looking into the Naxos one for awhile, but it's pretty expensive and the sound quality was pretty low unless you opted to pay a higher fee for near cd quality. I went with Rhapsody in the end, which had a respectable classical selection. It was around $9 usd a month..there's a free 14 day trial, definitely recommend it for music fans on a budget.


Thanks for the update.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

NAXOS. Enough said.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Actually if you're a college student I hear Naxos is free. Haven't tried it yet though.


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

World Violist said:


> Actually if you're a college student I hear Naxos is free. Haven't tried it yet though.


Haha, I wish!

I think some schools have deals with them though, and allow music students access if the school subscribes. That's a question for the dean of your music department I suppose. Anyway, that's what I remember when I was looking into it some time ago.


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

Delicious Manager said:


> This is piracy and, therefore, highly illegal for any recordings less than 50 years old and/or containing music which is in copyright. Shame on anyone who suggests music piracy and stealing from musicians!












:devil:


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## Listener (Sep 20, 2010)

I've got quite a few cds through Amazon marketplace and ebay.

Won't get into the debate about piracy, it just isn't worth it.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Delicious Manager said:


> This is piracy and, therefore, highly illegal for any recordings less than 50 years old and/or containing music which is in copyright. Shame on anyone who suggests music piracy and stealing from musicians!


Pah. First off, I didn't know there were degrees of legality, and it there were burning CD's from the library would be at the very bottom. Most of the libraries I've been to have a 15-20 CD limit... if they're letting people take 20 CD's at a time then they KNOW you're there to burn them- and keep in mind this is a government run system. The whole point of a library is to loan you something, not pay for it. I COULD check out the CD's every time I wanted to listen to the music and not pay a cent, it's just easier for me and everyone else who wants to check it out to put it on my computer. I'm not selling the music, I'm not making a profit. And the musicians make next to nothing on CD royalties... it's the label that gets the money. For anyone who isn't financially secure (such as a college student majoring in music like myself), I think using the library is perfectly acceptable. If I ever do become financially stable (unlikely- see my major), I will most definitely become a patron of the arts and pay it back there, not to mention be creating art myself where I'm sure someone will be "stealing" from me.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The piracy debate has been going on for decades. Inner sleeves of vinyl albums sometimes had a cassette made up to look like a skull with the legend 'home taping is killing music - and it's illegal'. Assuming 90% of blank cassettes were bought for that very purpose (I'm guessing the police bought most of the rest for interview purposes) I think that it was significant that the sale of blank tapes was never prohibited or hiked up in price to deter the practice. It was one of those situations where the breach of the rule was more accepted than the observance.


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Manxfeeder said:


> I might be wrong, but I think Naxos lets you hear complete albums on their website for a subscription fee.
> 
> I'm in a couple web groups that upload concerts and radio broadcasts. A lot of them are better than commercial recordings, and I've been able to hear pieces that it turns out I wouldn't want to have paid for.


I already have access to Naxos. I'm talking about a collection I can put on my iPod - physical CDs...things of that sort. Not internet based pieces.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Romantic Geek said:


> I already have access to Naxos. I'm talking about a collection I can put on my iPod - physical CDs...things of that sort. Not internet based pieces.


Thanks for clarifying. The groups I was referring to upload files of concerts and out of print recordings, and they work on my iPod. But sometimes the sound isn't the same quality as a professional recording, so I know where you're coming from.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> The piracy debate has been going on for decades. Inner sleeves of vinyl albums sometimes had a cassette made up to look like a skull with the legend 'home taping is killing music - and it's illegal'. Assuming 90% of blank cassettes were bought for that very purpose (I'm guessing the police bought most of the rest for interview purposes) I think that it was significant that the sale of blank tapes was never prohibited or hiked up in price to deter the practice. It was one of those situations where the breach of the rule was more accepted than the observance.


Far as I know, 'home copying' of _owned_ recordings has never been illegal in the U.S. It's the distribution of those copies that was/is illegal.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Nix said:


> Pah. First off, I didn't know there were degrees of legality, and it there were burning CD's from the library would be at the very bottom. Most of the libraries I've been to have a 15-20 CD limit... if they're letting people take 20 CD's at a time then they KNOW you're there to burn them- and keep in mind this is a government run system. The whole point of a library is to loan you something, not pay for it. I COULD check out the CD's every time I wanted to listen to the music and not pay a cent, it's just easier for me and everyone else who wants to check it out to put it on my computer. I'm not selling the music, I'm not making a profit. And the musicians make next to nothing on CD royalties... it's the label that gets the money. For anyone who isn't financially secure (such as a college student majoring in music like myself), I think using the library is perfectly acceptable. If I ever do become financially stable (unlikely- see my major), I will most definitely become a patron of the arts and pay it back there, not to mention be creating art myself where I'm sure someone will be "stealing" from me.


You make a lot of excuses without changing any laws. There is considerably more flexibility in the ethics of the practice, simply because - within societal norms - everyone has their own ethical standards. Mine and yours don't agree on this issue. This is unlikely to be a big deal.

:tiphat:


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Mine and yours don't agree on this issue. This is unlikely to be a big deal.
> :tiphat:


Good 

And I guess I need at least 10 characters to post a message.


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

No problem...yeah, I'm actually talking about building an actual library. I love Naxos...I just wish I could put that stuff on my iPod for access whenever, wherever. I find many of their recordings in very decent quality, though, I don't trust Jeno Jando as having a good interpretation of the piece...but I think their American Classics series is absolutely phenomenal as a whole. I'm sure when I turn to getting pieces by Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Haydn, etc...I'll stray away from the Naxos label CDs. 

It look like Amazon's classical music superstore is a good place to start, though it's 2.98 shipping per CD. I wonder at what point it's just cheaper to order it on Amazon and save on the shipping


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## David58117 (Nov 5, 2009)

I know you're actually building a physical library, but if you want something for your ipod, Rhapsody has an app that allows unlimited streaming and even downloading (for when wifi isn't available). I have the ipod touch and it's a very good app and service.


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## ladyrebecca (Mar 19, 2009)

Whatever you do, one way to be more frugal is to err on the side of selectivity. I end up buying a lot of music that I want to just hear once or whatever, and it's not always something I want to keep in my collection. Also, sometimes when recordings are released multiple times, with different mastering, etc., it's worth investigating so that you don't end up buying something just to wish you had bought another version. This is mostly a problem with older reissues. Have fun!


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree with *Amazon Marketplace* I managed to haggle with a company who sell CDs via Amazon Market Place. I manged to get *Gavriel Lipkind's* Bach Cello Suites new and unused still in cellophane. For just £15 including delivery, Superb CDs and nice box and extras as well.



I also bought new and unused, The Complete EMI Recordings of *Jacqueline Du Pre* and *Mstislav Rostropovich* from different sellers for £20 and £25 respectively


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

An inexpensive way? Tell me when you find one...


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## dmg (Sep 13, 2009)

Do you have a second-hand book store nearby, like Half Price Books? They may have CDs on clearance for very, very cheap. That's where I shop for most of my collection, with CDs (often great quality and key recordings, too) as low as $1 and $2 each.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I have had mostly good experiences with used CDs and opera DVDs. Only occasionally I got some less than ideal deals - but even those were more issues with the box having wear and tear, etc., while the disc inside might even have a couple of scratches but would play flawlessly. I made a habit of always checking the Used offers in Amazon.com marketplace, and often get good material for one fourth of the price of the new item. My usual cut-off is the "very good" description (meaning, I'd mostly only buy the "like new" and "very good" options) but I've bought "good" and even "acceptable" items and was at times surprised with fact that they were better than advertised.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Manxfeeder said:


> I might be wrong, but I think Naxos lets you hear complete albums on their website for a subscription fee.


I subscribe (I think it's a paltry £10 per year) so I can stream Naxos CDs online. The sound quality is perfectly acceptable for listening through my computer in the office, but I haven't tested it through my hi-fi in the living room.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Nix said:


> Pah. First off, I didn't know there were degrees of legality, and it there were burning CD's from the library would be at the very bottom. Most of the libraries I've been to have a 15-20 CD limit... if they're letting people take 20 CD's at a time then they KNOW you're there to burn them- and keep in mind this is a government run system. The whole point of a library is to loan you something, not pay for it. I COULD check out the CD's every time I wanted to listen to the music and not pay a cent, it's just easier for me and everyone else who wants to check it out to put it on my computer. I'm not selling the music, I'm not making a profit. And the musicians make next to nothing on CD royalties... it's the label that gets the money. For anyone who isn't financially secure (such as a college student majoring in music like myself), I think using the library is perfectly acceptable. If I ever do become financially stable (unlikely- see my major), I will most definitely become a patron of the arts and pay it back there, not to mention be creating art myself where I'm sure someone will be "stealing" from me.


Many people seem to think that it's OK to steal from musicians as long as you don't sell-on your ill-gotten gains. While it is acceptable to burn a 'backup' copy of a CD you have bought - or perhaps want an extra copy for the car - it is NOT acceptable to borrow CDs from another source and rip them. This is stealing. If you want a recording you should BUY the damn thing, or you are robbing the musician who recorded the CD (and the recording company who shelled-out a lot of money to record, edit, print, package and market the CD) of their rightful income. It would be the same if you made your ripped copy of a CD you own available to anyone else for THEM to rip (whether you charge them or not is actually immaterial).

Any unlicenced reproduction or distribution of copyrighted material is illegal and is classed as PIRACY (just because you don't like this, it doesn't mean it isn't so!). To claim financial insecurity is just a cop-out. It's like saying "If I can't afford it, I'll steal it." If you can't afford it, GO WITHOUT. You say musicians get 'next to nothing' on CD sale royalties. Do you know all the various licencing permutations between a musician and recording company? I do; because I WORK in that business and I can tell you it varies a LOT. Did you know that, in these straitened times, there are an increasing number of CDs issues where the musician pays for their own recordings costs (which can be considerable - and sometimes have to make other contributions to the production costs on top) and rely on royalties from the sales of that CD to recoup their losses? Well, it's true. Copy (STEAL) their CDs and it's like taking the money straight out of their pocket. And rob the CD companies enough (and do you have any idea how much it COSTS to record, produce, edit, print, package and market a CD?) and they will be unable to continue in business. That means fewer CDs and less music - we ALL lose out.

You DO profit from illegally ripping CDs - you have gained a recording that you should otherwise have bought (oh, hang on, that sounds like STEALING, doesn't it?). I wonder how you will feel when you are a struggling musician trying to make a way in a tough and competitive (and undervalued!) profession when people expect YOU to do things for nothing (how will you pay your bills - most people think musicians can exist on thin air)?


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Blame technology - play live, you get paid every time


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## beethovenian (May 2, 2011)

I like to think we classical music listeners buy music and respect intellectual rights more than our pop/rock..etc counterpart.

Classical music piracy on the Internet is pretty limited. But i can see that ripping borrowed CDs is a big problem.


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