# Are you over-doing it?



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing. 

Yikes - I probably exceed that four-fold on most days (and sometimes far more than that)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Surely it's okay if you don't turn it up too loud? Yikes indeed!

I myself definitely listen to music for more than one hour a day, not just on YouTube or cds, but when I do my violin practice. I have taken to using earplugs, because violinists often do develop hearing problems, particularly in their left ear, the one that's nearest to the instrument. And my tinnitus - which I had before I returned to the fiddle, but which later subsided - has restarted & looks as if it's here for good. 
But since most people's hearing deteriorates as they get older, whatever they do, I think it's a sacrifice that's worth making.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

It doesn't matter. Methods to completely restore hearing are 10-15 years down the road.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I listen on average probably 8 hours per day, but nearly all of it is a single earbud in my left ear. Left ear already is my bad ear--trying to avoid any further damage to right ear. But in Heaven I suspect there will be music 24-7 and not just music but I'll be a participant and I will actually sound good too.


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## Dave Whitmore (Oct 3, 2014)

How do you limit yourself to just one hour a day? I'm just getting warmed up then!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

violadude said:


> It doesn't matter. Methods to completely restoring hearing are 10-15 years down the road.


Pardon! What did you say?


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> in Heaven I suspect there will be music 24-7 and not just music but I'll be a participant and I will actually sound good too.


... and if you're very good, you will be able to see Maria Callas perform whenever you wish - and she'll be singing both Dido *and* Cassandra in _les Troyens_ too!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I've been listening for many years and my hearing is acute. Of course I am not listening at rock concert decibel loudness.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Let's hope not because operas generally longer than one hour each time I listen in full.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Hearing loss is related to chronic loudness exposure and has nothing to do with the inherent quality or lack thereof from the music itself.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I've been listening for many years and my hearing is acute. Of course I am not listening at rock concert decibel loudness.


Did you say you are a cute ....... or your hearing is acute?


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## pierrot (Mar 26, 2012)

Also don't forget to carry your coats and gloves when going outside, a cold is no small matter.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

A link to the WHO info?

Listening to high-volume music and using earphones too much has long been considered problematic, likewise say various kinds of noises and music in working situations, etc. ...

But even in completely natural surroundings, sounds are bound to emerge - all the time.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

WHO paper: Make Listening Safe

"The daily recommendation safe volume level is 85 dB for a duration of a maximum of eight hours." And the chart on page 2 suggests that if you're at more like 75 or 80 dB listening can be unlimited.

Does anyone know where the headlines that say cut listening to an hour are coming from?


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

This warning should only apply to people using headsets/earphones or blasting speakers in a small room. If teens are blasting music in their ears with portable devices, it should be up to the parents to step in.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Did you say you are a cute ....... or your hearing is acute?


 My hearing is my best organ. My second best is my.... (thank the lord!!) and yes it is indeed cute!!


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

^^^ 
Almost too much information! :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

aajj said:


> ^^^
> Almost too much information!


Perhaps, but the other guy set me up, otherwise my ..... wouldn't have even been _brought up._ Whoops!!


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

I have actually recently considered posting to ask if anyone who has noticed a decline in their hearing if they think that that the use of headphones has contributed.

My dad has just turned 60. I was about 5 years ago that we realized he is partially deaf. He hardly listens to any music, much less loud music, but he is a carpenter and has spent almost everyday for the past 40 years working with obnoxiously loud machines. I'm not sure if that is comparable to loud music, but it makes me worry about my listening habits.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

hpowders said:


> My hearing is my best organ. My second best is my....


_*sense of humour*_ perhaps?


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## pierrot (Mar 26, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I'm both. My hearing is my best organ. My second best is my.... (thank the lord!!)


Pancreas? Skin?


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Perhaps, but the other guy set me up, otherwise my ..... wouldn't have even been _brought up._ Whoops!!


So you two are a comedy team and he's the straight man for your punchlines!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> _*sense of humour*_ perhaps?


Yes. Exactly what I meant. Wouldn't want to be guilty of _over-doing it._


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

aajj said:


> So you two are a comedy team and he's the straight man for your punchlines!


For many months. You new here? :lol::lol:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

marinasabina said:


> I have actually recently considered posting to ask if anyone who has noticed a decline in their hearing if they think that that the use of headphones has contributed.
> 
> My dad has just turned 60. I was about 5 years ago that we realized he is partially deaf. He hardly listens to any music, much less loud music, but he is a carpenter and has spent almost everyday for the past 40 years working with obnoxiously loud machines. I'm not sure if that is comparable to loud music, but it makes me worry about my listening habits.


When I was a student & worked in a cardboard box factory, the woman who loaded one of the machines, and had for years, was very deaf. She could have swapped with one of the other workers, but didn't, because her job got a better bonus. 
I think young people who go to very loud discos do damage their hearing. I must admit, I hadn't thought that quietish classical music would do the biz...


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

This is the WHO press release. Still doesn't say anything about 'an hour a day' as the BBC put it (various other news organizations had similar headlines).


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

marinasabina said:


> I have actually recently considered posting to ask if anyone who has noticed a decline in their hearing if they think that that the use of headphones has contributed.
> 
> My dad has just turned 60. I was about 5 years ago that we realized he is partially deaf. He hardly listens to any music, much less loud music, but he is a carpenter and has spent almost everyday for the past 40 years working with obnoxiously loud machines. I'm not sure if that is comparable to loud music, but it makes me worry about my listening habits.


I am really sorry to hear about your father's hearing. My non-educated guess is that all those decades with loud machines took their toll and i can see a comparison with loud music. I think i did a bit of damage to my hearing as a teen, when i would listen to all kinds of LOUD music using those old school Koss headphones. I'd listen to _Rite of Spring_ or Coltrane or The Velvet Underground and i wanted maximum volume. Not a wise move.


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

hpowders said:


> For many months. You new here? :lol::lol:


No, but i never saw you go "there" to that other organ before. Taking it to the next level! :lol:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

aajj said:


> No, but i never saw you go "there" to that other organ before. Taking it to the next level! :lol:


"There" is simply an inference on your part.


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## aajj (Dec 28, 2014)

hpowders said:


> "There" is simply an inference on your part.
> 
> Explain more.


NO way, you're the comic. Biology was never my forte.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

aajj said:


> No, but i never saw you go "there" to that other organ before. Taking it to the next level! :lol:


Some people are 'aurally' fixated.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

aajj said:


> NO way, you're the comic. Biology was never my forte.


As you wish. I could keep doing this forever.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing.
> 
> Yikes - I probably exceed that four-fold on most days (and sometimes far more than that)


It depends on how loud and intense.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Little tip for mac users: if you want to raise/lower volume by 1/4th of the usual amount, hold "shift" and "option" before pressing a volume key. Makes it easier to get the volume to the most comfortable level when using headphones. 

Went years without knowing this trick myself.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Blancrocher said:


> Little tip for mac users: if you want to raise/lower volume by 1/4th of the usual amount, hold "shift" and "option" before pressing a volume key. Makes it easier to get the volume to the most comfortable level when using headphones.
> 
> Went years without knowing this trick myself.


Wow! I had no idea. Thanks!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> It depends on how loud and intense.


Gosh! I'd never have thought that


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Possible to get ear fatigue? Maybe... if I listen to over 10 hours a day my ears get tired sometimes.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing.


I'm very sceptical about that! We are subject to sound all day (and night) long. It is listening too loudly? Or with earbuds? I read something a while back about earbuds being harmful, not just because of excessive volume, but also because of the proximity of the speaker to the eardrum and the vibrations that ensue.

I cannot imagine that listening for any length of time, at a reasonable level of volume, could be dangerous. If you have to shout, if your ears ring or are deafened after listening, if you are getting headaches from listening, etc., these are certain signs that you are causing yourself harm.

I just looked up the report on the BBC site. The report specifically refers to teenagers and young adults, as this age group is most strongly affected. "[A]udio players, concerts and bars were posing a 'serious threat'" due to "unsafe sound levels from personal audio devices" in 50% of the people in that age group and "damaging levels of sound from clubs and bars" in 40% of the people in that age group. They then conclude: "While it is important to keep the volume down, limiting the use of personal audio devices to less than one hour a day would do much to reduce noise exposure."

From my own experience, I have found that it is literally impossible to listen at a reasonable level of volume outdoors, on buses, in cars, in shopping centres, etc., due to the level of ambient noise already present in these venues.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

albertfallickwang said:


> Possible to get ear fatigue? Maybe... if I listen to over 10 hours a day my ears get tired sometimes.


Going by the standards referenced in the OP, you would have to take a week to listen to Feldman's 2nd string quartet.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ but a good excuse to put four intervals into Wagner for toilet breaks :lol:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing.
> 
> Yikes - I probably exceed that four-fold on most days (and sometimes far more than that)


Listen??? What about the people who are paid to PLAY it? '...sorry - we can't perform opera such as Verdi or Wagner because they're too long and we don't want to get into trouble with the Health Police...

Or reviewers - '...sorry - can't send my copy in about the exclusive new Birtwistle piece until tomorrow because I've listened to something else already and will overrun my recommended one hour listening time...'


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Headphone Hermit said:


> ^^^ but a good excuse to put four intervals into Wagner for toilet breaks :lol:


You might not be able to hear over the sound of the flush, be tempted to turn it up too high :lol:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> Listen??? What about the people who are paid to PLAY it? '...sorry - we can't perform opera such as Verdi or Wagner because they're too long and we don't want to get into trouble with the Health Police...
> 
> Or reviewers - '...sorry - can't send my copy in about the exclusive new Birtwistle piece until tomorrow because I've listened to something else already and will overrun my recommended one hour listening time...'


A study which came out of Australia said that horn players are the most susceptible to hearing loss. If you look closely in some concert videos, it is not unusual to see players with ear-plugs. Also sometimes they put clear plexiglas shields behind some of the noisier instruments. There is also a great picture of Sarah Willis, 4th horn in the Berlin Phil, with her fingers in her ears during the last movement of the Mahler 2nd, while behind her are two timpanists about to wack the tam-tams for all they are worth!!


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

My best guess is WHO came up with the one hour max because they assume people will have the music set too loud. If there's a reason for a limit on music irrespective of the decibel level, I'd love to know why.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing.
> 
> Yikes - I probably exceed that four-fold on most days (and sometimes far more than that)


These days when we are fed music continually in supermarkets and shopping malls it's a bit difficult! Of course, it depends how loud you play it. it sounds like the fun police are on the march anyway!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I know that headphones will "hurt" my head way before my ears get tired of the music from experience.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> Listen??? What about the people who are paid to PLAY it? '...sorry - we can't perform opera such as Verdi or Wagner because they're too long and we don't want to get into trouble with the Health Police...
> 
> Or reviewers - '...sorry - can't send my copy in about the exclusive new Birtwistle piece until tomorrow because I've listened to something else already and will overrun my recommended one hour listening time...'


.... there would have to be health warnings on CD covers .... maybe eventually you could only listen to them outdoors .... and you wouldn't be allowed to adopt children if the social worker saw you with one ... and perhaps they'd eventually be sold in plain covers!!!! :lol:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> These days when we are fed music continually in supermarkets and shopping malls it's a bit difficult! Of course, it depends how loud you play it. it sounds like the fun police are on the march anyway!


Supermarkets? Shopping Malls? What d'yer wanna go there for anyway?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> I know that headphones will "hurt" my head way before my ears get tired of the music from experience.


What do you mean by ears getting "tired"? What does that feel like?

Is it possible that that's hearing damage?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Someone who knows more about audio production can fill in the details about this, but it's worth noting that most classical CDs and audio files are automatically set at a lower volume (or volume saturation level or something) so the high-low spectrum can be heard more easily.


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## Fox (Feb 20, 2015)

I think they mean with headphones using speakers that are at a normal sound setting and normal distance would have minimal impact on hearing.

_What?_


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> .... there would have to be health warnings on CD covers .... maybe eventually you could only listen to them outdoors .... and you wouldn't be allowed to adopt children if the social worker saw you with one ... and perhaps they'd eventually be sold in plain covers!!!! :lol:


Not the same as parental advisory stickers, I would hope.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

If I cut down my music that much, what exactly am I saving my hearing for?


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

......Well, ****


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I'm pretty careful about volume (I never use earbuds, only a speaker system), but I'm taking a break. I do listen a fair bit when I'm home


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Lately I've been listening without headsets and it feels a lot more relaxing over the TV or stereo system.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: It ain't me who's over-doing it!!! :lol::lol::lol:


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> My best guess is WHO came up with the one hour max because they assume people will have the music set too loud. If there's a reason for a limit on music irrespective of the decibel level, I'd love to know why.


The WHO Press Release says, talking about things teenagers can do to save their hearing while still listening to music loudly (90+ dB) "They can also limit the time spent engaged in noisy activities by taking short listening breaks and restricting the daily use of personal audio devices to less than one hour."

But that is just one option. The quote from the Making Listening Safe brochure is "the daily recommended safe volume level is below 85 dB for duration of a maximum of *eight hours*." Personally this is what I am doing. I listen at a reasonable volume and listen all day.

There is a graphic in that brochure which i will reproduce as a chart

Permissible daily noise exposures:
85 dB - 08:00
90 dB - 02:30
95 dB - 00:47
100 dB - 00:15
105 dB - 00:04

Below 85 dB the times are unlimited (it actually lists 25 hours for 80 dB), though it still says "The daily recommended safe volume level of any sound is below 85 dB for a maximum duration of eight hours."

Above 105 dB the times are less than one minute. The less than one hour recommendation comes from the idea that the listening is at or around 95 dB.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

mountmccabe said:


> The less than one hour recommendation comes from the idea that the listening is at or around 95 dB.


But why are they assuming 95 dbs? That's what we don't get. Then there's this quote:

"While it is important to keep the volume down, limiting the use of personal audio devices to less than one hour a day would do much to reduce noise exposure."

Which seems to treat duration as a separate issue from volume. I mean, you could say listening to 5 minutes of music a day would reduce one's risk, or that you could listen to your heart's content at 70 dbs. Why use one hour as the headline?


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

One hour a day? There goes Wagner...


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> Why use one hour as the headline?


Yeah, headlines that tout a one hour limit are ridiculous and deceptive, chosen as click bait.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Music is the main passion in my life. Listening 3-4 hours a day is not over-doing it. I love it.

Without it, I doubt if I would even still be here, given the many disappointments in my life, "growing up".


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

More propaganda from the anti Morton Feldman lobby, I suspect.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Yeah, closer to 6 hours probably for me. I listened to a lot in all genres, and my hearing is as good as anyone's, based on noticing some quiet sounds.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

I'm a piano teacher and accompanist, so obviously I listen to music for MUCH more than an hour a day!! Sometimes it's more than ten hours a day, when you factor in all the teaching that I do, as well as my accompaniment gigs, and then the time that I spend listening to CDs for my own enjoyment. I love the music-filled life that I'm leading, and I'm willing to take the risk that I might have hearing problems in later life. 

I've read that Beethoven could still teach after he went deaf, by watching the students' hands to see if they hit wrong notes, so maybe I should learn to do that too and then I'll still be able to continue my career even if my hearing deteriorates! I'd better start working on my visual acuity just in case...:lol:


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

In my opinion, one should avoid extremes. But a one hour limit is a somewhat silly notion. I think it depends more on your habits. Always remember to turn it down a few notches! Never go for more than 2 or 3 hours straight without a break. You must take a half hour break... If you are listening to an opera, take the intermission between acts! And always mind the volume; try to keep it as quiet as you can get away with, I find I can almost always manage to go a few notches down without hurting the music. And make sure you are not trying to listening over background noise. To account for background noise you usually have to crank it to a damaging level, so its best to avoid it. I can't listen on the highway because my car gets too loud to overpower. Headphones should probably be limited to an hour a day though, they are more damaging. And noise canceling headphones will help a lot as well.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Volume level is the key. Listening to a loud TV, motorcycle, piece of machinery, or whatever is going damage hearing just the same as loud music. Softer music will do less harm. The softer the music, the more you can listen to without damage. 

It's hard to say how much music I listen to in a day. I'm only able to seriously sit down and listen to music on my home stereo 2-3 times a week. Those sessions can last an 1.5-4 hours depending on how much time I have. I may listen to music on the car radio for a couple hours a day during the week. Of course, even if I don't listen to music in the car, I'm still hearing road noise which can be pretty loud. 

On another note, outside of Beethoven, I'm not aware of any musicians off the top of my head who had significant hearing loss. Maybe it's just something that they'd never admit to. Some say Ormandy had pretty bad hearing towards the end, but I don't know. You'd think these conductors in their 70s and 80s would have terrible hearing standing in front of the orchestra after all those years, but they seem to be okay. Maybe not, I don't know.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I may be. I tend to listen to all genres of music fairly loud, and I almost always listen with headphones. I tend to constantly adjust the volume while listening and try to turn it down during louder parts.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

"Recommendations" like this just makes me sad. There must be a reason for them. Maybe there really are a lot of people who have lost the touch to reality so completely they need these. Do we have any hope?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Do as you feel comfortable with. I always have music on, from dusk till dawn


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Do as you feel comfortable with. I always have music on, for dust till dawn


You are OK!

I also do that. Some days, no music at all, sometimes "24/7".


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Do as you feel comfortable with. I always have music on, for dust till dawn


Nothing could possibly go wrong with this strategy!*

_* = Assuming you listen to 4'33" on a continuous loop all day._


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Klassik said:


> Nothing could possibly go wrong with this strategy!*
> 
> _* = Assuming you listen to 4'33" on a continuous loop all day._


Every four hours and 33 seconds.


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## WaterRat (May 19, 2015)

Headphone Hermit said:


> The World Health Organisation today advised that people should listen to music for no more than *one* hour a day so as to not damage their hearing.


Speak up, Sonny! I can't hear a word you're saying!


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Getting seriously sick of scare-mongering scientists trying to tell me that every enjoyable pastime will somehow give me a whole host of diseases...


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Tallisman said:


> Getting seriously sick of scare-mongering scientists trying to tell me that every enjoyable pastime will somehow give me a whole host of diseases...


You won't have to hear the critics if you just blast your stereo! Either the music will cover up their words or you'll be too deaf to hear anything! :lol:


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## Guest (May 26, 2017)

mountmccabe said:


> WHO paper: Make Listening Safe
> 
> "The daily recommendation safe volume level is 85 dB for a duration of a maximum of eight hours."


According to my decibel meter, I rarely listen at more than 85 db, so I'm good.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

I think it's lawyers behind the whole thing.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

I hope i am not over-doign it. If i am I know I am not alone ! :lol:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> I think it's lawyers behind the whole thing.


I would say the Russians.


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

Decibels. Sure. Logarithms are headscratchers, so I'll leave them for when I'm not listening to classical music.


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