# Joseph Martin Kraus



## clavichorder

Here's a classical era composer really worth getting excited about. I've seen his name mentioned on this forum, so he's not a complete unknown. This symphony in C Minor is very interesting 



. He was known as the "Swedish Mozart". I believe the symphony above was written for Haydn, who thought very highly of it, going so far to say, Kraus would be known for the centuries to come. That really didn't happen, but I like that symphony a whole lot.

Kraus guestbook page in business now if there wasn't one already, and I searched to one too, but correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Naxos has done him a great service. I have Volumes 1 through 3 of his symphonies, and they are worth hearing.


----------



## Weston

I find his style seems to go from baroque to almost romantic. The single movement above is a good example. That makes his music as timeless as Beethoven's to my ears. Timeless, yet way ahead of his time.


----------



## Aramis

I was digging his music some time ago interested by portrait of him. It was only portrait of classical era composer I saw that was actually colourful and attracted attention. It had character. I thought that his music could be the same. I don't know if it is. I listened to two of his symphonies and one overture. It was fine but didn't strike me as something great. Since then I didn't explore him further.


----------



## TresPicos

> Here's a classical era composer really worth getting excited about. I've seen his name mentioned on this forum, so he's not a complete unknown.


No, he's not a complete unknown, but almost. Even here in Sweden, sadly enough. Thanks for creating a guestbook for him. I think he's worth it.


----------



## clavichorder

@ Aramis: Do you mean the portrait where he has the very tall glass of beer? That's quite an interesting one.

I'm so glad that I've "grown up" classically speaking, in a time where you can learn about just about any composer. According to my teacher, in the 60s, Haydn symphonies only had Antal Dorati cranking a new one out every once in a while. Those Antal Dorati only sound good on the later Haydn. Modern performances are often so crisp and they are doing the old music justice.


----------



## Aramis

clavichorder said:


> @ Aramis: Do you mean the portrait where he has the very tall glass of beer? That's quite an interesting one.












Yes, it's interesting, the pose is very unusual - most of them (classical period geezers) are shown from profile and these portraits look extremely conventional. This is diffrent. I like his position, the green parts of his clothes are in great harmony with the rest of picture.


----------



## Air

Kraus is my third favorite symphonist of the classical era after Haydn and Mozart. The contrapuntal work in the beginning of the c minor symphony is sculpted to perfection, yet eerily emotional at the same time. The dissonances somehow remind me both of Bach and late Romantic composers like Wagner. When the music really gets stormy, Kraus manages to pull off a very Mozart or even Mendelssohn like pulse and melodic line. The contrast between the slow and fast parts also reminds me a ton of Haydn's "Sturm und Drang" use of contrast.

Another great Kraus symphony besides the c minor would probably be the c sharp minor, which has a lot of the same dissonant work, emotional aura, use of contrast, and fiery passion fused into it.

1st mvt. 



3rd mvt. 




The C Major symphony "Violin obligato" anticipates Berlioz's "Harold in Italy" in its balancing of the symphony and the solo instrument to a very unique effect - allowing the work to maintain its primarily symphonic flavor. The concertante work is also very elegant, quite reminiscent of Mozart's violin concertos in my opinion.






Kraus also wrote a Symphonie funebre whose striking use of drums may have influenced Berlioz in some way or another.


----------



## mmsbls

The C major ("Violin obligato"), the C minor, and especially the C sharp minor mentioned above are wonderful. I also love the D major ("Sinfonia da chiesa").






I'm a bit surprised he is so rarely played especially given the relative paucity of famous classical period composers.


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Manxfeeder said:


> Naxos has done him a great service. I have Volumes 1 through 3 of his symphonies, and they are worth hearing.


Excellent recordings. I have them. Very stylishly played by the Swedish Chamber Orchestra, modern instruments but adhering to historically informed principles.

Kraus alsow wrote good string quartets worth digging into.


----------



## jurianbai

is the only Kraus I have, a pleasure chamber piece.And there is another CD by Salagon string quartet as well, but I haven't heard.


----------



## neoshredder

Discovering him right now thanks to the top 10 list based on posters that like Vivaldi. Sounds great so far.


----------



## PetrB

Mozart sure spoiled it for the other good composers of that era: The one element always present in Mozart's music is the unpredictable.

Kraus' music is 'very well written,' I checked a few other pieces on other links -- it is also much more in that arena of 'the predictable,' -- a little foursquare, you have more an idea of what is coming. CPE Bach is less predictable than Mr. Kraus....


----------



## ptr

^^PetrB just collected mu thoughts on JM Kraus. Thank You!

Kraus was about as high quality as the Swedish court of the period could afford importing, miles better then the local competition but only slightly above par compared to the international top players. At least us Swedes can be proud that he has received a decent accolade from posterity!

/ptr


----------



## Blake

He was definitely unfortunate to come up in a time where he is constantly compared to, in my mind, the greatest composer of all time - Mozart. However, Kraus was certainly a brilliant mind... very much so.

Heck, even Haydn considered this guy a genius.


----------



## clavichorder

I am listening to some more Kraus.  I don't think it is much more foursquare than the likes of much Mozart and Haydn(though the Symphony in C minor I cited earlier is no longer the first work I would recommend, because I don't think it is his most elegant, despite the harmonic daring), though Kraus has a more contrapuntal bent and also does distinctly Beethovenian gestures before Beethovenenian gestures were a thing.

For the awesome contrapuntal bent of Kraus, try this symphony:





For something with a little more of the progressive in it, but still highly elegant, try this symphony:





The shortcomings of Kraus that I can see are not in quality in the works he did produce, but rather in quantity and also in the low output of keyboard works(that I know of).

However, if you disagree with me, I would like to hear it and discuss it in detail. I think my ears are well attuned to the norm of that era and not just of the gold standard, so that may make my perspective a little different.


----------



## violadude

clavichorder said:


> I am listening to some more Kraus. I don't think it is much more foursquare than the likes of much Mozart and Haydn(though the Symphony in C minor I cited earlier is no longer the first work I would recommend, because I don't think it is his most elegant, despite the harmonic daring), though Kraus has a more contrapuntal bent and also does distinctly Beethovenian gestures before Beethovenenian gestures were a thing.
> 
> For the awesome contrapuntal bent of Kraus, try this symphony:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For something with a little more of the progressive in it, but still highly elegant, try this symphony:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shortcomings of Kraus that I can see are not in quality in the works he did produce, but rather in quantity and also in the low output of keyboard works(that I know of).
> 
> However, if you disagree with me, I would like to hear it and discuss it in detail. I think my ears are well attuned to the norm of that era and not just of the gold standard, so that may make my perspective a little different.


From what I've heard, Kraus is one of my favorite non-Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven Classical Era composer.


----------



## mmsbls

clavichorder said:


> The shortcomings of Kraus that I can see are not in quality in the works he did produce, but rather in quantity and also in the low output of keyboard works(that I know of).


I have both of those symphonies by the Concerto Koln. I have liked everything I heard from him. Kraus is certainly one of my favorite Classical era composers (behind the Big 3 of the era). I do also wish he had composed a few more works. For awhile now I have planned to listen to more of his string quartets and violin concertos, but there's simply too much varied music and too little time.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

clavichorder said:


> I am listening to some more Kraus. I don't think it is much more foursquare than the likes of much Mozart and Haydn(though the Symphony in C minor I cited earlier is no longer the first work I would recommend, because I don't think it is his most elegant, despite the harmonic daring), though Kraus has a more contrapuntal bent and also does distinctly Beethovenian gestures before Beethovenenian gestures were a thing.
> 
> For the awesome contrapuntal bent of Kraus, try this symphony:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For something with a little more of the progressive in it, but still highly elegant, try this symphony:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shortcomings of Kraus that I can see are not in quality in the works he did produce, but rather in quantity and also in the low output of keyboard works(that I know of).
> 
> However, if you disagree with me, I would like to hear it and discuss it in detail. I think my ears are well attuned to the norm of that era and not just of the gold standard, so that may make my perspective a little different.


Sounds quite similar to Sturm-und-Drang era Haydn. Nice interpretation too, who's playing here? Very nice classical era symphonic music.


----------



## clavichorder

PetrB said:


> Mozart sure spoiled it for the other good composers of that era: The one element always present in Mozart's music is the unpredictable.
> 
> Kraus' music is 'very well written,' I checked a few other pieces on other links -- it is also much more in that arena of 'the predictable,' -- a little foursquare, you have more an idea of what is coming. CPE Bach is less predictable than Mr. Kraus....


I really don't agree with this. Kraus wrote far less than Mozart and Haydn, but the symphonies he did produce are gems to rival nearly the best of both's output.

Kraus is a thing unto himself.


----------



## Tchaikov6

Kraus is absolutely blowing me away! His Symphony in E-flat is so completely amazing I don't know how he's so unkown... I guess Mozart and Haydn overshadowed him. But Kraus (at least it sounds like it) was very ahead of his time. There are lots of Beethoven-like surprises in the music. Certainly more adventurous than Mozart- though I can't go ahead and say he's greater. Mozart and Haydn still lead Kraus by a fair margin, but the "Swedish Mozart" is impressing me immensely!


----------



## KenOC

Kraus wrote a symphony for the Esterhazy orchestra of which Haydn spoke very highly.


----------



## Tchaikov6

KenOC said:


> Kraus wrote a symphony for the Esterhazy orchestra of which Haydn spoke very highly.


Yes, Haydn admired Kraus a lot.


----------

