# Most perfect piece of music ever written????



## elysimonoff

Jay Nordlinger in a recent commentary declared JS Bach’s organ chorale prelude “Leibster Jesu, wir sind hier” to be “merely the most beautiful and perfect piece of music ever written”. Au contraire (with all due respect to the great Bach). In the words of Robert Goldberg (I’m paraphrasing) “How does one process the ineffable beauty of the slow movement of Mozart’s A Major Clarinet Concerto”? I agree; comments?


----------



## PetrB

Well set up with argument or not, there will never be universal agreement.

Let's nominate, say -- and this nomination is sincere -- 
Morton Feldman ~ Piano and String Quartet, _which I believe is (one of) the most beautiful and perfect piece(s) of music ever written._





Some other candidates could be:
Debussy ~ L'apres midi d'un faun / Stravinsky ~ Symphonies d'instruments à vent / many others could easily be added, from something by Guillaume de Machaut (1300'a) to a work just now freshly completed....

In other words, You've got to be kidding... or in that more rural vernacular, "I do declare."


----------



## Nereffid

There's a bunch of pieces of music that I characterise as "when I'm listening to it, it sounds like the best piece of music _ever_". 
Let's pick one: the last movement of Beethoven's Piano concerto no.1.
But that's just me, obviously. 
And "perfect"? I have no idea how to define that!


----------



## Cheyenne

I can't even decide which one I myself like the most.


----------



## MagneticGhost

Mahler 2 is my stock answer at times like these. But truly this question is unanswerable.


----------



## Xavier

Ridiculous question... but if just one:

Schubert's Unfinished Symphony.


----------



## nightscape

To name something "the most perfect" at anything when talking about art is, of course, impossible. That being said, I can name a piece(s) that I believe to be perfect in the sense that I could not comprehend addition or subjection of any element, a la Salieri in _Amadeus_, ""Remove one note and there would be diminishment".

Debussy - Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Mendelssohn - The Hebrides
Stravinsky - Rite of Spring
Mahler - Symphony No. 2
Beethoven - Symphony No. 9


----------



## Forte

Bach's _Mass in B minor_ has got to be one of the most structurally perfect pieces of music. But what you, or anyone for that matter, means by "perfect" is not known.


----------



## Feathers

Xavier said:


> Ridiculous question... but if just one:
> 
> Schubert's Unfinished Symphony.


Ironic choice, but I agree. 

I'm going to add Mozart's PC 20 and Mendelssohn's Hebrides in there. I can't really define "perfect", but I wouldn't even think about changing a note of those pieces, so I guess they are perfect to me.


----------



## Blancrocher

Even Beethoven couldn't improve upon Mozart's 20th Piano Concerto, in my view.


----------



## PetrB

Blancrocher said:


> Even Beethoven couldn't improve upon Mozart's 20th Piano Concerto, in my view.


He knew better than even to try, just wrote some cadenzas, not only legitimate, but _expected of any performer at the time._


----------



## Guest

First, can I be pedantic and observe that perfection (if such a thing exists) can't be qualified - one piece of music cannot be 'more' perfect than another, nor one piece, the 'most' perfect? On that basis, let me offer the two pieces that seem to me to be sufficiently small and perfectly formed to merit the term 'perfect'. I don't think I've changed my opinion since this question, or one very similar, was last posed.

Debussy - Arabesque No. 1
Brian Eno - The Big Ship

One of the reasons I've nominated two short pieces is that, IMO, the listener needs to be able to physically master the whole, and Beethoven's 9th and the Feldman - which I'm enjoying as I type - are too large to master.


----------



## Ondine

Piece? 

Makes me think of something small; almost a fragment. Thus:

Eine Kleine Nachtmusik.

Vespre Solemnis de Confessore, K 339

Do not rush; I know that most TC members will disagree


----------



## Trout

With a subject as subjective as music, I interpret "perfect" as something that I cannot conceive of any way to improve upon with my imperfect knowledge and discernment. This may seem strange, but while many of these are among my favorite pieces of music, there are quite a few of my favorites that I just could not list here (Bruckner, Mahler, and Messiaen, namely) simply because I feel there are some structural flaws that I perceive which may not reflect the pieces' own shortcomings, rather my own.

Tallis: Spem in Alium
Bach: Mass in B minor
Mozart: Serenade No. 10 "Gran Partita"
Mozart: Le Nozze di Figaro
Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral"
Brahms: Clarinet Quintet
Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis
Stravinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps
Ives: Symphony No. 4
Strauss: Four Last Songs
Adams: The Dharma at Big Sur


----------



## Ondine

Trout said:


> Mozart: Serenade No. 10 "Gran Partita"


Trout! I was tempted to mention that one. It's unique in its own genre.


----------



## Guest

MacLeod said:


> One of the reasons I've nominated two short pieces is that, IMO, the listener needs to be able to physically master the whole, and Beethoven's 9th and the Feldman - which I'm enjoying as I type - are too large to master.


I guess I've just owned up to being small-minded!


----------



## Forte

Blancrocher said:


> Even Beethoven couldn't improve upon Mozart's 20th Piano Concerto, in my view.


I don't see why he'd even want to. Then it would just be a weird mix of his style in some places and Mozart's style in others. In that sense, Mozart would not be able to improve any of Beethoven's works either unless he pretty much rewrote them in his own language, and even then they would say different things.


----------



## Blancrocher

PetrB said:


> He knew better than even to try, just wrote some cadenzas, not only legitimate, but _expected of any performer at the time._


Of course you're right--but only because they were all wrong!


----------



## Crudblud

I believe that perfection is unattainable by sentient beings, and that if we were to be presented with something perfect we would not be capable of understanding it because it would be totally alien to our nature.

Also, something is either perfect or it isn't, there aren't degrees of perfection. Nothing can be "the most perfect."


----------



## PetrB

Blancrocher said:


> Of course you're right--but only because they were all wrong!


Which "they?"

Here is a list of all the known Mozart Piano Concerto cadenzas _by Mozart_. 
N.B. there are none for K.466!

KV. 175: Two versions for each of the first two movements.
KV. 246: Two for first movement, three for the second.
KV. 271: Two for each movement.
KV. 365: First and third movements.
KV. 413: First and second movements.
KV. 414: All movements, two for second.
KV. 415: All movements.
KV. 449: First movement.
KV. 450: First and third movements.
KV. 451: First and third movements.
KV. 453: Two for first and second movements.
KV. 456: Two for first movement, one for third.
KV. 459: First and third movements.
KV. 488: First movement (unusually, written into the autograph).
KV. 595: First and third movements.


----------



## Garlic

Something by Milton Babbitt


----------



## PetrB

Crudblud said:


> I believe that perfection is unattainable by sentient beings, and that if we were to be presented with something perfect we would not be capable of understanding it because it would be totally alien to our nature.
> 
> Also, something is either perfect or it isn't, there aren't degrees of perfection. Nothing can be "the most perfect."


Are you as tired as I am with all the critical hyperbole, such as in the quote in the OP? I'm all for making the argument or point some work or another is superb, but "Most Perfect," yada-blah... its getting downright irritating, nearly as irritating as the Poll Composer boxing rounds, ______ vs. _______.


----------



## Celloman

The most perfect piece of music ever written?

It hasn't been written yet.


----------



## Guest

Celloman said:


> The most perfect piece of music ever written?
> 
> It hasn't been written yet.


And yet...if we set aside the pedantic...we could still try to answer the 'spirit' of the question: of all pieces so far written, which comes closest to perfection?


----------



## Blancrocher

PetrB said:


> Which "they?"
> 
> Here is a list of all the known Mozart Piano Concerto cadenzas _by Mozart_.
> N.B. there are none for K.466!


OK, OK--I take my cheeky comment back. In fact, I'm not even sure I like K466 anymore.


----------



## Forte

Again, perfect _by what measure_? On a test you can get all of the questions correct and receive full points, in which case you've scored perfect. How can you possibly judge a piece of music by that? All of the methods I can think of would be subjective in at least one way and require a particular set of aesthetics which may be different from person to person.


----------



## apricissimus

Duke Ellington's "Come Sunday" is on my short list.


----------



## Guest

Forte said:


> Again, perfect _by what measure_? On a test you can get all of the questions correct and receive full points, in which case you've scored perfect. How can you possibly judge a piece of music by that? All of the methods I can think of would be subjective in at least one way and require a particular set of aesthetics which may be different from person to person.


Quite right. I'm not claiming that either of the pieces I've posted are objectively perfect - just an offering to others of two of my favourite pieces and at least one criteria by which I stake my subjective claim that they approach perfection.


----------



## Crudblud

PetrB said:


> Are you as tired as I am with all the critical hyperbole, such as in the quote in the OP? I'm all for making the argument or point some work or another is superb, but "Most Perfect," yada-blah... its getting downright irritating, nearly as irritating as the Poll Composer boxing rounds, ______ vs. _______.


I have been tired of critical hyperbole for some time now, I am not surprised by it any longer, but, just as the critics in question continue to feel compelled to make such statements, I continue to feel compelled to call them out on their stupidity in making them.


----------



## PetrB

nightscape said:


> ...perfect in the sense that I could not comprehend addition or subjection of any element, a la Salieri in _Amadeus_, ""Remove one note and there would be diminishment".


Author Shaffer had Salieri saying that, referring to Mozart's trait of removing one note from the activity, the harmony then turning, elegantly and often surprisingly, to a diminished (vs. major, minor, augmented) harmony.

It was a comment on how pliant (and enormously expressive) music was under Mozart's pen.

The pith being, that often in "italiante" mode, i.e. using three, not four pitches, Mozart was, still is, famous for being able to subtly but surprisingly modulate, "turn on a dime." and more often than not while using that minimum of pitches -- no cover, no thickeners -- in so doing.


----------



## trazom

PetrB said:


> He knew better than even to try, just wrote some cadenzas, not only legitimate, but _expected of any performer at the time._


The cadenzas don't fit at all with the piece, they're too different, stylistically: the trills and octave runs up to the top registers of the keyboard, etc. The best that could happen is if Mozart's own cadenzas for that concerto were discovered, if they even exist.


----------



## chrisco97

In my mind, many of Beethoven's works are perfect. However, if I am being honest, they are not. That is what makes them so great for me. You can hear the imperfections and how honest and real Beethoven's music is. It comes from him. It does not feel forced, nor does it feel fake. It feels like Beethoven. That is what I love about his music...he is the real deal.


----------



## chrisco97

If I had to pick a work I consider "perfect" though, I would probably vote for something like Beethoven's Op. 132 String Quartet or his Pastoral Symphony. That is a really, really hard question to answer. :lol:


----------



## DavidA

For perfection you might try Figaro or Cosi, both by the master of perfection, WA Mozart.


----------



## PetrB

DavidA said:


> For perfection you might try Figaro or Cosi, both by the master of perfection, WA Mozart.


But, just about all of Mozart, slight incidental dinner music to the weightier and more serious works, is perfect!


----------



## PianistFingers

Nocturne No. 9- Chopin.


----------



## Schumann

Bach: Mass In B Minor, BWV 232 - Agnus Dei: Agnus Dei / Bach: St. John Passion, BWV 245 - Herr, Unser Herrscher


----------



## Kieran

Nereffid said:


> And "perfect"? I have no idea how to define that!


Definition of _perfect _when it comes to music?

"You couldn't have written it better yourself!" :lol:

Hard to single out one above others, especially since I wouldn't have the technical nous to dissect it and see where it jars or fumbles. Today, it's the Haffner Serenade. But in general, I think of works like Mozart's adult operas, his PC's etc, as being perfect. I certainly couldn't fault them. Likewise, Mahler's 5th, Beethoven's piano sonatas, Schubert's lieder, Hugo Wolf songs.

They're perfect for me, when I'm in _that _mood that needs them....


----------



## Itullian

I'll play. 

Beethoven 5 and 6.
Handel's Messiah
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Bruckner 8
Meistersinger
Tristan und Isolde


----------



## Guest

Kieran said:


> Definition of _perfect _when it comes to music?
> 
> "You couldn't have written it better yourself!" :lol:


'Perfect' would then include 99.99% of all classical (assuming the broadest definition of 'classical': I'm sure I could compose something matching the remaining 0.01%!)


----------



## isridgewell

Probably not the answer you are looking for but, the first movement of Walton Symphony No 1. Absolutely awesome writing.


----------



## rarevinyllibrary

the" Chesterfield " Symphony by A.Bourukov


----------



## Mahlerian

MacLeod said:


> 'Perfect' would then include 99.99% of all classical (assuming the broadest definition of 'classical': I'm sure I could compose something matching the remaining 0.01%!)


I'm sure most any random guy off the street who isn't tone deaf (and some of the ones who are) could top the symphonies of Richard Nanes in invention and technique.


----------



## Crudblud

Mahlerian said:


> I'm sure most any random guy off the street who isn't tone deaf (and some of the ones who are) could top the symphonies of Richard Nanes in invention and technique.


I have a feeling, a gut feeling, that someone is out there is currently penning _Nanes the Progressive_.


----------



## Eschbeg

Arbitrarily defining a perfect piece as one in which I perceive no flaws, I'll go with the following for starters:

Lasso: _Tristis est animea mea_
Bach: Webern's orchestration of the Ricercare from _A Musical Offering_
Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 20
Puccini: _Turandot_
Ravel: _Ma mere l'oye_
Reich: _Proverb_


----------



## maestro57

This is a very easy question for me to answer.

Beethoven - Piano Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Op. 57


----------



## edge

I'm pretty new so I don't have a lot to compare between but I'd say on the macro scale, I find Beethoven's 5th to be almost perfect as a whole. On the micro scale, I'd have a hard time finding anything more perfect than the Queen of the Night Aria.


----------



## Celloman

John Cage's _4'33"_ is as close to perfect as it gets. But it's still just a smidgen too loud.


----------



## Aries

Most perfect? 

Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV 565


----------



## leomarillier

I have a few works in mind. The King of Thule from Berlioz's damnation of Faust. As grandiloquent may the rest of the work seem, this gothic ballad remains to me so perfect in terms of balance between musical flow, poetic qualities of the text, and musical simplicity.
The other work would be the Unanswered question, by Charles Ives. First of all, because its moral and philosophical consequeces on people is mind-crushing. Second, because I think that simplicity is the most refined definition of perfection. Everything is essential here.
Wagner's Ring also intrigues me by its musical perfection of agencement of leitmotiv, the deeper you go in the web, the more it makes sense.


----------



## Notung

Between the Beethoven 9 or the Parsifal Prelude (probably the former).


----------



## Notung

edge said:


> I'm pretty new so I don't have a lot to compare between but I'd say on the macro scale, I find Beethoven's 5th to be almost perfect as a whole. On the micro scale, I'd have a hard time finding anything more perfect than the Queen of the Night Aria.


In the soprano repertoire, the aria balances emotion and technique. Very perfect.


----------



## mmsbls

I'll take perfect to mean that every moment seems fills me with a wondrous joy.

Tallis - Spem in Alium
Mozart - Symphony 41
Mozart - PC #20
Wagner - Tristan Liebestod (if portions of a work count)


----------



## echmain

That's easy, "Shave and a Haircut...two bits". Possibly the best 7 notes ever written.


----------



## nightscape

Eschbeg said:


> Ravel: _Ma mere l'oye_


Dude, yes, especially "Le Jardin feerique" which is one of the loveliest pieces of music ever conceived.


----------



## schuberkovich

I found this thread and just wanted to mention something.
It dawned on me that, in my humble opinion, the first movement of Brahms' Piano Trio no.1 in B major is absolutely perfect. The melodies are exquisite, yet they are perfectly developed throughout the movement so as to never seem overdone. The variety in mood is masterfully handled. When I listen to it I feel that every second contains amazing music.

However, the most amazing part of the movement is the tender second subject, which is actually two melodies in counterpoint. It is difficult to discern which of them is the actual second subject because they both seem so perfectly formed, yet they both work wonderfully together and do not detract from each other.

I am gushing quite a bit, but the movement seems so amazing to me. It's a shame that I don't really like the other three movements in the rest of the trio - the lack the magic and structural perfection.


----------



## hpowders

Prelude #1 in C Major, WTC Book One by JS Bach.


----------



## Ingélou

I'll take 'perfect' in the sense of exquisite, not a note out of place, & so full of character that the work seems like a creature with life independent of its composer. 

I choose, for instrumental music, Biber's Rosary Sonatas/ Boccherini's Fandango/Granville Barker's Pibroch for Cello & Harp/ Robert Moran, Requiem: Chant du Cygne.

For choral works, Vivaldi's Stabat Mater/ Charpentier's Te Deum / Handel's Messiah.


----------



## Jos

Pffff, perfect.....
Well, if I must: Corelli's Sonata da chiesa, recently played them and I love them. But it might well be Bach's toccata 911. 
Obviously this can change very quickly, and probably will once I've clicked the "post" button......

Cheers,
Jos


----------



## arpeggio

*4'33"*



Celloman said:


> John Cage's _4'33"_ is as close to perfect as it gets. But it's still just a smidgen too loud.


I second. There is no faulty harmony, voice leading, or orchestration to complain about. Wait, there is that guy snoring in the back row.


----------



## hpowders

arpeggio said:


> I second. There is no faulty harmony, voice leading, or orchestration to complain about. Wait, there is that guy snoring in the back row.


Sorry about that, but I'd rather be listening to Bach.


----------



## Ebab

“The most perfect music that I’ve encountered yet” – how exciting and encouraging!

In contrast, the notion of “perfect music” seems as absolute as death.


----------



## PetrB

Ebab said:


> "The most perfect music that I've encountered yet" - how exciting and encouraging!
> 
> In contrast, the notion of "perfect music" seems as absolute as death.


I agree it could not get much more drab, like saying to all "Here is the end of your journey but this is also just it, repetition from now on, even after death (a kind of hell, then.)

As far as anything can be truly perfect, and of that quest to name the music which is, there are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to many legitimate candidates to make a discussion at all worthwhile.


----------



## guy

(I may list multiples for each composer, if so, they are in order of greatness)

Bach: Passacaglia and Fugue BWV 583, Contrapunctus XIII BWV 1080, or Toccata and Fugue in D minor BWV 565
Mozart: Requiem in D minor
Beethoven: Grosse Fuge
Schubert: Piano Trio in C minor, 1st mvmt
Mendelssohn: String Octet: Scherzo
Brahms: Piano Quintet, 1st mvmt
Saint-Saens: Organ Symphony, 1st mvmt
Debussy: Arabesque No. 1
Schoenberg: Verklarte Nacht

The greatest is probably the Grosse Fuge, although Passacaglia and Fugue comes in a close second place.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

When you all are talking about something being "perfect" you are only speaking of perfectly _good_. But there are different kinds of perfection. What about perfectly _bad_??

I nominate this piece as_ perfectly bad_...










Because we can't help being attracted to perfection of_ any_ kind. :tiphat:


----------



## dgee

If this was about perfection within a "type and style" or a specific intention then it might be more interesting. Ole Blue Danube would have to be a starter, as would Eine Kleine - they both thoroughly do what they set out to do and do it very, very well


----------



## Blake

I think Beethoven came the closest to perfection. But this is such a subjective opinion that I can't even take myself seriously


----------



## PetrB

Huilunsoittaja said:


> When you all are talking about something being "perfect" you are only speaking of perfectly _good_. But there are different kinds of perfection. What about perfectly _bad_??
> 
> I nominate this piece as_ perfectly bad_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because we can't help being attracted to perfection of_ any_ kind. :tiphat:


OH DEAR! I think you've mistaken 'pretty' or 'beautiful' in some conventional context as part of the absolute criteria of perfection


----------



## Nevum

Maybe this piece:





And I dont like Prokofiev myself. That's the single of piece of him that I like. But in my opinion it may well be the best piece of classical music ever.


----------



## PetrB

*WHAT THIS THREAD IS:*

A list of pieces varied individuals find completely satisfying.

Ergo, _*Yet Another Favorites Thread Re-Tread*_


----------



## arpeggio

*S. O. S.*

I used to read a lot of history. I stopped after reading my fifth book on the Battle of Gettysburg. The South always loses. 

One of the problems with threads like this is that the same music keeps winning.

Let me guess, the eventual winner would be something by Bach. As a matter of fact the piece I am thinking of is by Bach.

In order to spice things up I seconded the Cage to be silly. :devil:

Now if the Johnson _Concerto for Piccolo and Fifteen Accordions_ won.


----------



## guy

Vesuvius said:


> I think Beethoven came the closest to perfection. But this is such a subjective opinion that I can't even take myself seriously


This topic is meant to be subjective.


----------



## hpowders

For me the most perfect musical piece is the Prelude #1 in C Major from the Well Tempered Clavier, Book One by JS Bach. 3-4 minutes of musical heaven. Equally fine on piano or harpsichord.


----------



## Guest

K364

Perfect transitions of thematic material. Perfect development. Perfect conversation of solo instruments and orchestra. Perfect balance of harmony and textures. Perfect sense of devine joy throughout. This is my favorite of all music in the history of the world.


----------



## beetzart

Beethoven's 5th piano sonata 1st movement. A perfect example of how to compose a masterpiece while sticking to the rules of sonata form, Haydn style. This piece though is not mechanical though but takes you on a emotional adventure. The use of dramatic contrasting dynamics is what makes it shine.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Somehow, the following pieces come to mind:
Beethoven, Piano concerto no. 4 in G Major, Piano Sonata No. 26 in E-flat Major, 'Les Adieux'; Mozart, Piano concertos no. 21 in C Major, No. 23 in A Major; Haydn, Symphony No. 104 in D Major, 'London'; Choruses from the Creation; Schubert, Impromptu Op. 142 No. 1 in F minor; G. P. Telemann, Ouvertüre. Grave - Allegro; Händel - Messiah - And He Shall Purify; For Unto Us a Child is Born. 

There are of course many others .


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

PetrB said:


> *A list of pieces varied individuals find completely satisfying.*


*

You may also find a piece that is completely dissatisfying, and the only way that can be possible is if a highly-skilled composer sets up the expectation for immense satisfaction, and doesn't give at the expected moment, a perfect anti-climax. It would be music that rocks you in your seat, perhaps makes you want to throw something in irritation. Especially if the piece can disrupt your own interpretation of the meaning of the piece. That's why I nominated the Prokofiev 2 in that vein since it ends in darkness rather than renewal. You're left with a dead hero.*


----------



## Guest

Eschbeg said:


> Arbitrarily defining a perfect piece as one in which I perceive no flaws, I'll go with the following for starters:
> 
> Lasso: _Tristis est animea mea_
> Bach: Webern's orchestration of the Ricercare from _A Musical Offering_
> Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 20
> Puccini: _Turandot_
> Ravel: _Ma mere l'oye_
> Reich: _Proverb_


An interesting definition, in the context of music...

So, by implication, any work _not _selected must have flaws. Ravel's _Daphnis et Chloe_ is flawed, for example? In what way?


----------



## Blake

guy said:


> This topic is meant to be subjective.


Which is why it's reminiscent of a fart in the wind.


----------



## Guest

I bet there is no answer to the OP that would command anything like widespead support. 

The peak of this particular "hill" is probably very flat for miles around with umpteen different candidates vying for top position. 

Anything among the field of possible candidates could be criticised on one way or another: piece is not long enough, not complex enough, too schmaltzy, too saccharine, too boring, not popular, too popular, too much like something else, composer not well known and the rest of his output is rubbish, etc.

It's not even worth trying.


----------



## Guest

Partita said:


> I bet there is no answer to the OP that would command anything like widespead support.
> 
> The peak of this particular "hill" is probably very flat for miles around with umpteen different candidates vying for top position.
> 
> Anything among the field of possible candidates could be criticised on one way or another: piece is not long enough, not complex enough, too schmaltzy, too saccharine, too boring, not popular, too popular, too much like something else, composer not well known and the rest of his output is rubbish, etc.
> 
> It's not even worth trying.


The OP - if read fully - is inviting us to do more than just make a subjective recommendation of a 'perfect piece'. What's wrong with that? You, my dear Partita, need not try, but there's no need to scoff at those who have (or might yet).


----------



## Guest

MacLeod said:


> The OP - if read it fully - is inviting us to do more than just make a subjective recommendation of a 'perfect piece'. What's wrong with that? You, my dear Partita, need not try, but there's no need to scoff at those who have (or might yet).


You may wish to re-read my post which simply stated my view that any subjective recommendation of the "most perfect piece of music ever written" is unlikely to command widespread support given the intrinsic difficulty of reaching any consensus on this topic. I was not scoffing any individual's recommendation, nor suggesting that no other opinion but mine is valid. With this mind I trust that you won't mind if I ask you kindly to refrain in future from giving me a lecture on how I might respond to threads of this nature.


----------



## EdwardBast

Perfection is overrated.


----------



## DeepR

Today I say Beethoven - Symphony No. 3 - Movement 1. 
But that's because I've been listening to it a lot in the last few months.


----------



## DeepR

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Händel - Messiah - For Unto Us a Child is Born.


Good choice, I love this piece. Have you heard Mozart's transcription of the Messiah?






It's in german and this piece starts at 33:29.


----------



## Cheyenne

DeepR said:


> Today I say Beethoven - Symphony No. 3 - Movement 1.
> But that's because I've been listening to it a lot in the last few months.


"That movement, the first challenge of the new music, remains its last word. It is the noblest piece of absolute music ever written in sonata form, and it is the noblest piece of programme music. In Beethoven, indeed, the distinction between the two became purely imaginary. Everything he wrote was, in a way, programme music, including even the first two symphonies, and everything was absolute music. ... The older I grow, the more I am convinced that the most portentous phenomenon in the whole history of music was the first public performance of the Eroica on April 7, 1805. The manufacturers of programme notes have swathed that gigantic work in so many layers of banal legend and speculation that its intrinsic merits have been almost forgotten. Was it dedicated to Napoleon I? If so, was the dedication sincere or ironical? Who cares - that is, who with ears? It might have been dedicated, just as well, to Louis XIV, Paracelsus or Pontius Pilate. What makes it worth discussing, today and forever, is the fact that on its very first page Beethoven threw his hat into the ring and laid his claim to immortality. Bang! - and he is off. No compromise! No easy bridge from the past! The second symphony is already miles behind. A new order of music has been born. The very manner of it is full of challenge. There is no sneaking into the foul business by way of a mellifluous and disarming introduction; no preparatory hemming and hawing to cajole the audience and enable the conductor to find his place in the score. Nay! Out of silence comes the angry crash of the tonic triad, and then at once, with no pause, the first statement of the first subject - grim, domineering, harsh, raucous, and yet curiously lovely - with its astounding collision with that electrical C sharp. The carnage has begun early; we are only in the seventh measure. In the thirteenth and fourteenth comes the incomparable roll down the simple scale of E flat - and what follows is all that has ever been said, perhaps all that ever will be said, about music-making in the grand manner. What was afterward done, even by Beethoven, was done in the light of that perfect example. Every line of modern music that is honestly music bears some sort of relation to that epoch-making first movement."
- H.L. Mencken


----------



## DeepR

And it seems I'm not the only one who likes it a lot.  I'm glad I grew fond of it by myself, getting to know the piece by ear, while being unaware of opinions like these, its importance and technical merits. I don't want to be influenced by all these things. I only knew the 3rd was one of his most famous symphonies.


----------



## Guest

Partita said:


> You may wish to re-read my post which simply stated my view that any subjective recommendation of the "most perfect piece of music ever written" is unlikely to command widespread support given the intrinsic difficulty of reaching any consensus on this topic. I was not scoffing any individual's recommendation, nor suggesting that no other opinion but mine is valid. With this mind I trust that you won't mind if I ask you kindly to refrain in future from giving me a lecture on how I might respond to threads of this nature.


I didn't say you were scoffing at any individual's recommendation. But, IMO, you were scoffing at anyone who tried what you deem not worthy of trying.

What does it matter whether anyone's suggestion commands widespread support?

And, no, I won't mind your asking...


----------



## shangoyal

The finale of Beethoven's fifth.


----------



## KenOC

shangoyal said:


> The finale of Beethoven's fifth.


Nah, too short. He should have kept going for a while. :lol:


----------



## shangoyal

KenOC said:


> Nah, too short. He should have kept going for a while. :lol:


That's like saying a pinch of uranium has less energy than a tonne of coal.


----------



## Blake

shangoyal said:


> That's like saying a pinch of uranium has less energy than a tonne of coal.


A teaspoon of a neutron star has more mass than the entire human population. Imagine that.


----------



## clara s

PERFECT (Oxford Dictionary) :

having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be:

•	free from any flaw or defect in condition or quality;

*Brahms violin concerto *

exquisite structure, diabolic perfectionism, sublime main theme

•	precisely accurate;

*Mahler s. No 5 *

asymmetrical rhythmic accents at their best

•	highly suitable for someone or something; exactly right:

for me: *Bolero by Ravel*

the absolute perception of time and space perfection

•	thoroughly trained in or conversant with:

*Vexilla Regis by Anton Bruckner*

excellent contemplation of human voices

THESE ARE FOR THIS MONTH


----------



## shangoyal

Vesuvius said:


> A teaspoon of a neutron star has more mass than the entire human population. Imagine that.


And a piano has more keys than I have teeth!


----------



## guy

Vesuvius said:


> Which is why it's reminiscent of a fart in the wind.


Um... What? I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean.


----------



## KThreeSixFour

Jerome said:


> K364
> 
> Perfect transitions of thematic material. Perfect development. Perfect conversation of solo instruments and orchestra. Perfect balance of harmony and textures. Perfect sense of devine joy throughout. This is my favorite of all music in the history of the world.


Yes, what?

Oh, umm... yes! Quite agree!


----------



## guy

Oh, are we talking about perfect as in perfect form? Who'd ever want to listen to that?!


----------



## lupinix

rachmaninov 3rd piano concert <3


----------



## SARDiver

Vesuvius said:


> A teaspoon of a neutron star has more mass than the entire human population. Imagine that.


I dunno. I've met too many dense people for me to really believe that.


----------



## hpowders

shangoyal said:


> And a piano has more keys than I have teeth!


Not me. I have 2 sets of uppers and lowers.


----------

