# Underrated Conductors and Their Recordings



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I stumbled across a recording a few years back of Philippe Herreweghe doing Bruckner 5 and fell in love with it. I then listened to him doing Franck Symphony in D-minor. I am now a big fan of his, and have started exploring his Bach recordings. I don't seem to hear much talk of him which makes me wonder about other underrated conductors.

*So, are there conductors (and their recordings) you like which seem undervalued?*


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Well, he's not a nonentity, but not held in extraordinary esteem: Leinsdorf's Prokofiev is pretty good, and his Mahler holds up better then you would think (despite the horrendous sound of the BSO's first trumpet of the time). 

In the '50s someone named Joseph Levine made a series of ballet recordings on Capitol, with something called the "Ballet Theater Orchestra." They were actually really good, and I still have the Swan Lake excerpts (early LPs were pretty indestructible).

Ferenc Fricsay is not well known today, but in his day he was respected and especially his Beethoven is world class.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Jos Levine has a great recording of Antheil "Capital of the World", Schuman "Undertow" - Ballet Theater Orch (NY group??) great disc, terrific orchestra...
There are some foreign conductors who were very excellent, but little known in the US - Efrem Kurtz, Lovro von Matacic, Andre Cluytens... very fine, very solid...
Can't go with Leinsdorf, a definite 4th stringer, at best...he had a huge repertoire, most all of which he led with a deadly, pedestrian stodginess that I find compellingly soporific..his BSO tenure a real mess..I always classify him in the genre of Konwitschny, Swarovski, Hollreiser, Bongartz, etc...none of whom are under-rated...


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Heck148 said:


> ... Andre Cluytens... .


One of the best.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I find that Michael Gielen is not much appreciated outside of Germany. In Frankfurt am Main and southwest Germany he was much loved and admired. Over the past few months I have gotten more and more into his recordings with the SWR Sinfonieorchester, especially his complete Mahler symphony set. Although non-German commentators tend to categorize him as a champion of new music, I and, I think, German audiences are in the first instance in awe of his interpretations of Classical, Romantic, and Modernist repertoire.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I would say the most underrated conductors are all very well known making the whole underrated discussion somewhat suspect.

One of the biggest selling "underrated" conductors was *Antal Dorati*. He was one of only a handful of conductors who produced two 2 million sellers -- the Haydn symphonies on London and Beethoven's Wellington's Victory & Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture for Mercury. He also recorded almost everything in the standard repertory but is rarely spoken of with others that had his level of achievement.

Another conductor, probably the 4th-best selling conductor in history, was *Neville Marriner*. People that don't know him pigeonhole him as a conductor of Baroque music yet his repertoire was huge -- from the Renaissance to the 20th century. He also was selected to conduct the score for the greatest film ever about a classical composer, Amadeus. This was in 1983 when both Bernstein and Karajan were alive.

Other conductors, such as *Rudolf Kempe* and *Jascha Horenstei*n, never had posts at top orchestras so they were in the shadow of others in the golden era. Yet their recordings showed they were the equal of the Szells, Bohms and Ormandys that had top orchestras at their disposal and made hundreds of recordings.

Of today's living conductors one I would say would benefit everyone from more exposure is *James Gaffigan*. Listen to this Schubert mass he conducted in Cleveland in 2009 for one reason:






Gaffigan recorded a set of Prokofiev symphonies with his home symphony in the Nehterlands. He has also recorded the Dvorak 6th and Beethoven 9th symphonies among others, generally to very good to ecstatic reviews. Fanfare subscribers can read some of them on their website under https://fanfarearchive.com/indices/itop/performers/gaffiganjames.html

He is still young and poised, in my opinion, to capture a top spot internationally in this decade.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Among living conductors, James Conlon deserves much more attention...I've heard some very good things from him....


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I was reared on the conducting of Eugene Ormandy and found his non-histrionic, non-idiosyncratic approach simpatico over a whole range of composers and pieces. Also appreciated Dorati, Ansermet, Reiner, Lenny, Fricsay. I agree that Levine did some nice things with the Met orchestra--his Eroica is fine.


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## Caryatid (Mar 28, 2020)

Daniel Raiskin is obscure enough not to have a Wikipedia page, but I've quite enjoyed his recording of the Brahms symphonies.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Herman Scherchen. Okay, so he had some goofy ideas from time to time. He never recorded with a first-class orchestra, never held the music director position of a major orchestra, didn't record for major labels. And yet there's something really musical, devil-may-care and profound insight in his music making that I've always enjoyed. Even when I was a youngster getting to know the classics he was on the way out, his recordings consigned to budget labels. His Handbook on Conducting was my bible when I took up the baton. A musician I know played with Scherchen in Italy many, many times and has nothing but great things to say - his insights into Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler were life changing. 

Some of his best:

Mahler Symphony no. 7: Vienna Symphony is probably my favorite of his several recordings.
Gliere: Symphony no. 3: Unmatched still.
Dvorak: Slavonic Dances
Haydn: any of the symphonies
Beethoven: all of it interesting, the 3rd and 8th especially so
Bach: St. Matthew Passion

He was also a deeply humanitarian gentleman, leaving Germany when the Nazis took over. Too bad there is so little of him conducting on video.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

I like the Dutch/German conductor, Paul van Kempen who recorded some superb Philips discs in the 1950s. His Tchaikovsky 5 is stunning.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> Herman Scherchen. Okay, so he had some goofy ideas from time to time. He never recorded with a first-class orchestra, never held the music director position of a major orchestra, didn't record for major labels. And yet there's something really musical, devil-may-care and profound insight in his music making that I've always enjoyed. Even when I was a youngster getting to know the classics he was on the way out, his recordings consigned to budget labels. His Handbook on Conducting was my bible when I took up the baton. A musician I know played with Scherchen in Italy many, many times and has nothing but great things to say - his insights into Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler were life changing.
> 
> Some of his best:
> 
> ...


I've got quite a bit of Scherchen, mbhaub, and lots of sets of the Slavonic Dances but I've never heard of Scherchen doing Dvorak's Slavonics Dances. Link please, as I want to hear it!


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I have an odd choice for this thread. The conductor Jonthanan Pasternack is hardly a household name, but by all rights maybe he should be. The conducting career is brutal, and many very fine musicians, through no fault of their own, never land the top jobs. I don't inherently hold it against them any more than I would an actor who didn't quite crack the Hollywood scene: it has very little to do with their quality and far more to do with factors that are frankly extrinsic to the profession.

Anyway, Pasternack released a very intriguing CD with the LSO as a debut album, with an odd pairing of repertoire: Bartók's _Miraculous Mandarin_ suite, and Brahms Symphony No. 1. Let's get this out of the way: it's a very strange pairing to say the least. I won't attempt to justify it. Instead, I'll discuss this release essentially as two separate recordings, although it must be said the interpretation of both shows important commonalities.

The recording was made with an all-digital process, from mics to the final mixing and mastering. It is certainly exceptional in audio quality.

Full disclosure: I am personally acquainted with this conductor, and have worked with him professionally a few times, which I considered a privilege. However, this was a number of years ago, and I had nothing to do with making this recording.









Bartók _Miraculous Mandarin_ suite:

This is a hair-raising performance, with savage tempo contrasts and extremely bold playing from the LSO. It is superbly detailed, and vividly conceived. In general contrasts and detail are the order of the day for this interpretation, and the LSO is in excellent form.

Pasternack's interpretive approach is to gradually build tension, in subtle waves, that become less and less subtle. The opening is therefore tamer than some, but after all it is just a mundane street scene. The terror is still to come. We, the audience, do not know the horror that awaits, and Pasternack doesn't give it away.

All of the individual instrumental seduction solos are paced perfectly, starting innocuous ("hey, honey, looking for a good time?) but growing more and more desperate.

The chase fugue almost pushes the tempo too hard; the strings _just _hold it together. It's risky. It's terrifying. The effect is among the most hair-raising on disc.

I only wish it were the full ballet and not just the suite!

Brahms Symphony No. 1:

A general observation is that this is a big, broad, genius-philosopher-deep-in-thought interpretation, but warm in tone. That means that tempos, especially in the 1st movement, are a bit on the slow side. However, it is never sluggish; in fact, Pasternack does impressively well at maintaining rhythmic tactility at all times, with a supple melodic line that is continuous and always flowing. It is a deeply lyrical approach.

It also runs against the grain of much post-HIP interpretation, which is probably why, along with the strange coupling, this recording passed by mostly ignored.

What Pasternack does do is reserve ecstasy for only the most special moments. For example, in the last movement introduction, the horn solo is relatively restrained, which frankly matches Brahms's indication of merely forte (_not _fortissimo) sempre e passione. The solo is passionate, but the kind that actually wins the girl, not scares or embarrasses her away (if you'll pardon the metaphor) by trying too hard.

Similarly the opening of the first movement: only forte, as marked, poco sostenuto. (I will note one minor complaint, something I can't believe I am saying because my complaint is more often the opposite: the timpani are over balanced.)

So in the end is such attention to pacing, reserving climaxes, etc., mean that this is a boring performance? For me, far from it! It helps make those moments when the heavens open mean _more_, and become more exciting. My attention is held with the phrasing and continuous direction of the melodic line, without which this approach would not work. I don't need scene chewing every other phrase, but I do need the pacing and direction of the phrase to keep things moving. I will say that patient attention is well rewarded with the glorious coda in the fourth movement, when it all comes together. It is a superb moment in orchestral music, and this recording does it beautifully!

The recording from Abbey Road Studios is clear, warm, and resonant, with excellent reinforcement from the contrabassoon and double basses. It is as detailed in balance and nuance as the Bartók.

If my description of this against-the-current-grain interpretation intrigues you, do yourself a favor a give this recording a try.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Merl said:


> I've got quite a bit of Scherchen, mbhaub, and lots of sets of the Slavonic Dances but I've never heard of Scherchen doing Dvorak's Slavonics Dances. Link please, as I want to hear it!


Doh! Brain fart. I had Westminster in my head and anyway...the Slavonic Dances were by Rodzinski. Scherchen did some of the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies is what I was confusing. Sorry!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> Herman Scherchen. Okay, so he had some goofy ideas from time to time. He never recorded with a first-class orchestra, never held the music director position of a major orchestra, didn't record for major labels. And yet there's something really musical, devil-may-care and profound insight in his music making that I've always enjoyed. Even when I was a youngster getting to know the classics he was on the way out, his recordings consigned to budget labels. His Handbook on Conducting was my bible when I took up the baton. A musician I know played with Scherchen in Italy many, many times and has nothing but great things to say - his insights into Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mahler were life changing.
> 
> Some of his best:
> 
> ...


Many years ago I was visiting a longtime CM friend, and while we were talking over wine, he put Scherchen's Eroica on. I have an ability, when I know a piece, to be able to pay attention to nuance even while conversing, eating, or doing something else. So I was surprised to hear that not only was the performance fast (Beethoven's tempo?) but not just fast for the sake of fast, but there was a real performance behind it. Very impressive!


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## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

seitzpf said:


> I find that Michael Gielen is not much appreciated outside of Germany. In Frankfurt am Main and southwest Germany he was much loved and admired. Over the past few months I have gotten more and more into his recordings with the SWR Sinfonieorchester, especially his complete Mahler symphony set. Although non-German commentators tend to categorize him as a champion of new music, I and, I think, German audiences are in the first instance in awe of his interpretations of Classical, Romantic, and Modernist repertoire.


I was going to mention him as well for pretty much the same reasons.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I'd echo the Gielen comments wholeheartedly. His Beethoven, Mahler, and his Brahms and Bruckner too are of immense value. And yet he WAS a champion of new(er) music too, and when the next volume of the Gielen Edition comes out (post-1945 music) I expect that'll become clearer to a lot of people, including myself. And have a look at some of the works he premiered or championed very early on, that list is quite illuminating.

A couple of conductors I'd also mention as being under-rated would also include Adam Fischer, certainly in comparison with his little brother, and Janos Ferencsik. Similarly,, overlooked having spent most of their careers in Central Europe, Vaclav Neumann. Iron Curtains tend to limit appreciation, often until it's too late.....


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

I will list some of my favourites. Not sure if classed underrated but certainly not exposed like some.

*Konstantin Ivanov* (conductor) his a/c of Gluzunov 5th is recognised as one of the best but rarely mentioned.

*Stig Westerburg*(conductor) Championed Swedish Composers more than any other. His a/c of Stenhammar's 2nd is recognised as the benchmark to all others. I still think Blomstedt's renditions do not surpass it.

*Veronika Dudarova* probably underrated purely on her gender but her a/c of russian composition is with the best. Kalinnikov's symphonies are one example. Only Svetlanov rivals here.
*
Sian Edwards*. Her highlights being Britten's Young Person's Guide, and Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony, all with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

*Václav Smetáček* was a Czech conductor, composer, and oboist. Highlights Dvorak's 3rd and sixth Symphonies.

*Lovro von Matačić *(14 February 1899 - 4 January 1985) was a Croatian conductor . His rendition of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony is my favourite of the work. Highly regarded within his own country but rarely mentioned anywhere else.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Knorf said:


> I have an odd choice for this thread. The conductor Jonthanan Pasternack.


Thanks for the heads-up. I'm always looking for a good recording of the Bartok. I probably would have looked at the Naxos label and passed it up.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

For Bartok "Miraculous Mandarin" go for Martinon/CSO....A real thriller, brilliantly played and conducted. Kertesz performed it soon after with Chicago
(CSO archival set 1st 100 Years), and it is very similar...the final section is pushed at extreme tempo and the orchestra holds it together...but I slightly prefer Martinon - final section is just a tad slower, but he gets amazing "bite", drive to the tempo...incredible propulsion and violence...the great CSO low brass is in fine form - the hard articulations and shmeary glissandi sounded forth to great effect...


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I have the Martinon*/CSO _Miraculous Mandarin_, as well as a number of others. Mostly I own recordings of the full ballet, of course, but nevermind.

The Pasternack/LSO is competitive.

(*Martinon belongs on any list of underrated conductors. What happened to him in Chicago was unbelievably shameful.)


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

CnC Bartok said:


> I'd echo the Gielen comments wholeheartedly. His Beethoven, Mahler, and his Brahms and Bruckner too are of immense value. And yet he WAS a champion of new(er) music too, and when the next volume of the Gielen Edition comes out (post-1945 music) I expect that'll become clearer to a lot of people, including myself. And have a look at some of the works he premiered or championed very early on, that list is quite illuminating.
> 
> A couple of conductors I'd also mention as being under-rated would also include Adam Fischer, certainly in comparison with his little brother, and Janos Ferencsik. Similarly,, overlooked having spent most of their careers in Central Europe, Vaclav Neumann. Iron Curtains tend to limit appreciation, often until it's too late.....


Totally agree, CnC. Gielen did little wrong for me. Interesting you mention Neumann. Growing up I used to read the Penguin Guide and he was nearly always slated for his recordings and performances being "too stiff". I never have felt the same as those reviewers and now his older recordings are greeted as being straight, uncomplicated and natural. I never knew whether the anti-Neumann bashing was due to him being behind the Iron Curtain or whether it was just trendy to hate on him. At least the balance has been redressed in hindsight.


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Joachim Raff said:


> I will list some of my favourites. Not sure if classed underrated but certainly not exposed like some. (...)
> 
> *Lovro von Matačić *(14 February 1899 - 4 January 1985) was a Croatian conductor . His rendition of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony is my favourite of the work. Highly regarded within his own country but rarely mentioned anywhere else.


I know von Matačić for his Wagner ; his excellent 1959 Bayreuth Lohengrin & the 1962 Turin Meistersinger (in Italian). Well worth seeking out.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I agree with Gielen as underrated. His Mahler 8 might be the best of them all. Certainly it is one of the most coherent, without sacrificing any of the mysticism and rapture. I got to know Gielen first through his tremendous Cincinnati recording of Elliott Carter's Variations for Orchestra (one of my all-time favorite 20th c. orchestra pieces) and the Piano Concerto with the magical Ursula Oppens. A thorny nut, but one well worth cracking, with Gielen's lucid and musical guidance.

Neumann, as well. I encountered him first with Mahler 9, and his is a wholly remarkable account. His Suk Asrael Symphony is still unrivaled, as far as I know. 

Those are just a couple examples that popped into my head about both. Fabulous musicians!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Knorf said:


> I have the Martinon*/CSO _Miraculous Mandarin_, as well as a number of others. Mostly I own recordings of the full ballet, of course, but nevermind.
> (*Martinon belongs on any list of underrated conductors. What happened to him in Chicago was unbelievably shameful.)


Yes, Martinon was a very fine conductor, and underrated, imo.....he recorded and performed some great stuff with Chicago...top level efforts.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Lovro von Matacic was a very fine conductor...his Eroica is top level, one of my favorites (with Toscanini, Reiner)....he led a fine Bruckner 7, one of the very best, with CzPO, his #9 is good, too.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> Lovro von Matacic was a very fine conductor...his Eroica is top level, one of my favorites (with Toscanini, Reiner)....he led a fine Bruckner 7, one of the very best, with CzPO, his #9 is good, too.


Ditto on Matacic. The Scheherazade is top-drawer.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

I'll second the Gielen comments here. I recently discovered this conductor, through his recent sets of Mahler and the second school of Vienna, and his work with so-called modern languages is very impressive. His legacy deserves to be better known. For my part, I would like to know more about it in other more classical repertoires.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Sinopoli and Wagner's _Ring_ comes to mind for me. Even if the production was a disaster, I think that the musicians played well and that the musical performance overall was very intense and convincing. This was my first _Ring_ (together with Solti's) and it's still a personal favorite.


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## perdido34 (Mar 11, 2015)

Louis Lane was a fantastic conductor who was in Szell's shadow as long as he was in Cleveland. He made only a few recordings there, but many of his live performances were recorded for broadcast. Then he went to ATL, where he made a few Telarc discs with an orchestra not as good as Cleveland's.


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## Rangstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

My go to answer to this question for many years was Horenstein, but the last decade or so has really brought many of his marvelous performances to the forefront (in much better sound). So now I would go with Peter Maag: studied with Furtwangler and got off to a glorious start (try his Mendelssohn 3rd) and then put the brakes on. Never signed up with a major orchestra so you have to search for his recordings. Still it is worth the effort.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

One who comes to mind is David Atherton, one of the founders of the London Sinfonietta, later with the Royal Liverpool and Hong Kong Philharmonic. He was also in San Diego as music director of the San Diego Symphony in the 1980s, and later founder of the Mainly Mozart summer series. Regarding the SDSO, while he did some really good work there, he was partly responsible for the orchestra being disbanded in 1986 (it was later reconstituted.)


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Hans Vonk's Mozart Overtures with the Staatskapelle Dresden immediately spring to mind. Wonderful sound, peppy interpretations, horrendous album cover.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

*Antoni Wit* does not get the credit he deserves, especially for his sterling recordings of Penderecki's works .......

*Giuseppe Sinopol*i should be rated higher than he is, IMHO. Check out his Elektra, his Mahler 3 with the SWRRO Stuttgart is possibly the greatest recording of that work ever, Bruckner 3, 5 & 8 with the Dresdeners, his Schumann, 2VS, I could go on (and often do!)


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Speaking of Sinopoli, I adore this recording of Scriabin's Poems Divine and Of Ecstasy.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Knorf said:


> I have an odd choice for this thread. The conductor Jonthanan Pasternack is hardly a household name, but by all rights maybe he should be. The conducting career is brutal, and many very fine musicians, through no fault of their own, never land the top jobs. I don't inherently hold it against them any more than I would an actor who didn't quite crack the Hollywood scene: it has very little to do with their quality and far more to do with factors that are frankly extrinsic to the profession.
> 
> Anyway, Pasternack released a very intriguing CD with the LSO as a debut album, with an odd pairing of repertoire: Bartók's _Miraculous Mandarin_ suite, and Brahms Symphony No. 1. Let's get this out of the way: it's a very strange pairing to say the least. I won't attempt to justify it. Instead, I'll discuss this release essentially as two separate recordings, although it must be said the interpretation of both shows important commonalities.
> 
> ...


You have me interested. This is on the YouTube.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> I probably would have looked at the Naxos label and passed it up.


Wow man..............


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

CnC Bartok said:


> I'd echo the Gielen comments wholeheartedly. His Beethoven, Mahler, and his Brahms and Bruckner too are of immense value. And yet he WAS a champion of new(er) music too, and when the next volume of the Gielen Edition comes out (post-1945 music) I expect that'll become clearer to a lot of people, including myself. And have a look at some of the works he premiered or championed very early on, that list is quite illuminating.
> 
> A couple of conductors I'd also mention as being under-rated would also include Adam Fischer, certainly in comparison with his little brother, and Janos Ferencsik. Similarly,, overlooked having spent most of their careers in Central Europe, Vaclav Neumann. *Iron Curtains tend to limit appreciation, often until it's too late.....*


I agree. Klaus Tennstedt and Sawallisch in particular were victims of this geopolitical mess also. 
As for underrated conductors, *Jascha Horenstein* comes to mind (he made a plethora of very fine recordings, but was never appointed head conductor of a world-class orchestra). I agree with Larold above (I did not even see his mentioning of Horenstein until after I wrote this).

*Otmar Suitner *one can make a claim for him.


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