# What is the deal with Alberich?



## GrosseFugue (Nov 30, 2011)

Maybe there should be a separate sub-forum for Wagner? 

I'd like to get some feedback from the Wagnerites about Alberich. 
Because I don't understand some things about him. 

First, how can he breathe underwater? He's like deep in the Rhine, chasing the Rheinmaidens and I don't understand if he's meant to be a water creature or being a dwarf gives him special powers (like gills)? Wouldn't it have been more plausible to have him talk to the maidens from the BANK of the Rhein, than later DIVE IN to the river to fetch the gold?

Second, we never find out what happens to him in the end. Mime and his son are killed off. But what can we assume happened to Alberich? Is he an allegory that Greed and Corruption is never far away and we always have to keep vigil? If so, why wasn't Wagner more explicit with that message? I mean why not have a scene where Alberich laughs menacingly while Valhalla burns or something? :devil:


----------



## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

I imagine Wagner's Nibelung are rather poorly-defined as to their "powers." I suppose underwater breathing (and singing) aren't out of the question. As to his fate, he's definitely mortal (in a world where even immortals die) so he won't be around indefinitely... not to mention he kinda put all his eggs in one basket, and it didn't work out so hot. He'll never love (and without the gold, he can't even buy any more), and he made enemies out of his own kind.


----------



## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

When Alberich returns in Gotterdammerung to speak to his son Hagen, some stagings depict him as a ghost. Presumably, he dies between Siegfried and Gotterdammerung, so Siegmund's son can be slain by Alberich's son.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

GrosseFugue said:


> ...how can he breathe underwater? He's like deep in the Rhine, chasing the Rheinmaidens and I don't understand if he's meant to be a water creature or being a dwarf gives him special powers (like gills)? Wouldn't it have been more plausible to have him talk to the maidens from the BANK of the Rhein, than later DIVE IN to the river to fetch the gold?


Berger brought this up in his book "Wagner Without Fear."

My answer is- a race that is capable of producing shape-changing headgear (that has invisibility and teleportation as 'bonus powers') should have sufficient legerdemain to enable water-breathing, with the right preparation. As to why Alberich doesn't simply call to the Rhinemaidens from the bank- well, it seems that for dramaturgical purposes, Wagner wanted the physical interplay of the whole "chased/nearly caught/slipped again" visual sequence. [More on the other points later...]


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Well, if there ever was a work of art that's open to interpretations, it's the Ring. We cannot give definitive meanings or explanations about ANYTHING in the Ring, in my view. That was the way Wagner intended it, I think; it's a part of it's allure and lasting charm. 

Here are some of my thoughts:

Das Rheingold - and especially the beginning of it - happens at a VERY early time. The world and the primordial elements have just been created in the prelude; everything is still hazy and non-defined... mythological. What is Alberich? Is he a person, a divine being, an impersonal force, an allegory of corruption that is always present whenever there is consciousness (represented by the Rhinemaidens, as consciousness born out of Water, the element most crucial to Life)? If Alberich represents the element of Earth, he can co-exist with Water quite peacefully; after all, all bodies of water have a bottom. And there's mud - a combination of both. At the beginning of the Ring, the elements are pure, the music is pure; as time passes, everything gets more "muddled" and complex. Maybe the concept of "drowning" hasn't even appeared yet (humans haven't appeared yet, either). At any rate, mythological stories aren't "realistic" or even "consistent".

What might happen to Alberich at the end? Maybe he is the seed of corruption that can never be fully destroyed, unless the World itself is destroyed. Is the World destroyed, then? Perhaps not, as the Eddas hint of a new World born out of the ashes of the old one. So, a new "Das Rheingold" might begin after the end in "Götterdämmerung", with Alberich chasing the Rhinemaidens again. Or maybe there was no Alberich in Götterdämmerung at all, he was just a dream in Hagen's mind. At any rate, it's hard to imagine him laughing in victory, since he hasn't gained the ring, and it seems that he has no world to rule anymore. He is quite the "Karma Houdini", as they say, as we never see him killed or punished, but perhaps the greatest punishment is just being himself - especially without the ring. Or perhaps it is just the nature of Evil to survive. Perhaps he exists in the end, but cannot directly influence the World, because he is a mythological/spiritual/legendary being, like Wotan. Perhaps he exists only in the minds of men at this time in history (or individual development, if we see the Ring as allegory of that).

In the end, the Ring is a relationship-drama, a mythical story, a deconstruction and reconstruction of music, an explanation of the concept of Time, an amalgamation of the Greek and the Roman, the Roman and the German, with even Christianity thrown in the mix, an allegory of Western civilization/development of the mind/Hegelian view of history/ascent of the soul to higher spheres/the cyclic nature of the Universe... how many of these things are paradoxes? For example, how can you be both Hegelian and cyclic? The Ring is all of these things melded into one. It's the opposite of postmodernism - broken things come together, disharmony becomes harmony. Any reading is correct, but no reading is all-encompassing. I'm getting all religious again so I should stop, but that's what Wagner does to me


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

GrosseFugue said:


> Maybe there should be a separate sub-forum for Wagner?
> 
> I'd like to get some feedback from the Wagnerites about Alberich.
> Because I don't understand some things about him.
> ...


The Nibelungs were not necessarily human, so may have had different physical characteristics. Don't they live underground? Then they may have special ways to breathe or conserving oxygen.

:lol: Heh, heh, heh. Another years-old Ring thread dragged up.


----------



## Francis Poulenc (Nov 6, 2016)

It's fiction, not physics.


----------



## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

Francis Poulenc said:


> It's fiction, not physics.


Thank you. It's amazing that needed to be said after 6 years.


----------



## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

The dwarves certainly aren't human. In one story, they were made from the blood of Brimir and the bones of the giant Ymir (whose body became the world). In another, they were maggots crawling about Ymir's body. 

Guerber gives this account:

"While the gods were occupied in creating the earth and providing for its illumination, a whole host of maggot-like creatures had been breeding in Ymir's flesh. These uncouth beings now attracted divine attention. Summoning them into their presence, the gods first gave them forms and endowed them with superhuman intelligence, and then divided them into two large classes. Those which were dark, treacherous, and cunning by nature were banished to Svart-alfa-heim, the home of the black dwarfs, situated underground, whence they were never allowed to come forth during the day, under penalty of being turned into stone. They were called Dwarfs, Trolls, Gnomes, or Kobolds, and spent all their time and energy in exploring the secret recesses of the earth. They collected gold, silver, and precious stones, which they stowed away in secret crevices, whence they could withdraw them at will. The remainder of these small creatures, including all that were fair, good, and useful, the gods called Fairies and Elves, and they sent them to dwell in the airy realm of Alf-heim (home of the light-elves), situated between heaven and earth, whence they could flit downward whenever they pleased, to attend to the plants and flowers, sport with the birds and butterflies, or dance in the silvery moonlight on the green."

Man and woman were made from an ash tree and an elm tree. And while in the subject: The AEsir (Odin/Wotan and co.) were the son of a giantess and the grandson of a god frozen in a giant iceblock that was thawed by a magical cow. I'm not making this up, you know! Frey and Freya are Vanas (sea and wind gods from Vanaheim).


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> The Nibelungs were not necessarily human, so may have had different physical characteristics. Don't they live underground? Then they may have special ways to breathe or conserving oxygen.
> 
> :lol: Heh, heh, heh. Another years-old Ring thread dragged up.


I know it had to be you!


----------



## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

As for Alberich... His other names were Andvari, Elbegast, Gondemar, Laurin ... and Oberon. It's safe to assume he ended up in Shakespeare ("who must have been rather like me" - R. Wagner), in a play about magic potions and lovers forgetting their original lovers. Hopefully Titania made him happier than Grimhild.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

GrosseFugue said:


> Maybe there should be a separate sub-forum for Wagner?
> 
> I'd like to get some feedback from the Wagnerites about Alberich.
> Because I don't understand some things about him.
> ...


Too bad Wagner died. His suggestion box is closed.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> As for Alberich... His other names were Andvari, Elbegast, Gondemar, Laurin ... and Oberon. It's safe to assume he ended up in Shakespeare ("who must have been rather like me" - R. Wagner), in a play about magic potions and lovers forgetting their original lovers. Hopefully Titania made him happier than Grimhild.


Je suis Titania la blonde ...
:lol:


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Another oppprtunity for Regietheatre -- Alberich wearing an old fashioned diving suit!


----------



## KleineSurfMusik (Nov 18, 2020)

I tend to agree with bigshot. That seems the most satisfying simple explanation.
As someone else said, this great work of art (the Ring) is open to many, many interpretations, and we have had several very thought-provoking ones in the last decade.


----------

