# Ludwig van Beethoven: The 32 sonatas for piano



## Daniel

Hello dear members of Talk Classical!

Let's start some new discussions about whole work-cycles and groups. You can write about anything you associate with some works, write about your favourites, special experiences or leave your questions - it is our musical garden!

Starting point: The piano-sonatas by Ludwig van Beethoven

The 32 sonatas are a kosmos of musical achievements, and reach a climax of form, inspiration and composition, and not only in the last three sonatas. And there we are: Do you agree with the standard listing into "Early, Middle, and Late Periods"? And where to settle them exactly? Any special signs which authorize such a structre? What sonatas did you play yourself? And what sonatas are your favourites? 

Awaiting your answers,
Daniel


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## Rondo

I prefer the late sonata's (Nos 30-32). The last one is so often underestimated, which is sad because of its beauty. There are other gems "in the middle," such as No. 23, 12 and 21. The 3rd mov't to the 12th is very nice; it sort of reminds me of the Allegretto movement from Symphony No. 7, with the slowly moving motif....the kind that echoes in your mind night after night (in a good way ).

Im not a pianist, only a listener, so I cant comment much on the playability.


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## ChamberNut

Daniel said:


> Let's start some new discussions about whole work-cycles and groups. You can write about anything you associate with some works, write about your favourites, special experiences or leave your questions - it is our musical garden!


Great idea Daniel!  Thanks for starting these up.

The Appassionata is still my favorite, but there are so many great piano sonatas of his. A close 2nd is the Walstein.

I have the Barenboim complete set of sonatas. My 2nd major classical music purchase, after Beethoven's complete symphonies!


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## Evan Roberts

Well the Pathetique seems to be the Eroica of Beethoven's Piano works, the first masterpiece. I have no doubt that all the famous ones are deserving of their status as great works, but I also particularly like No. 17 'The Tempest', along with the little discussed 27th and 28th. My favourite is either Hammerklavier, Appassionata or the last one


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## Leporello87

I really enjoy the Hammerklavier sonata, but it's always sort of struck me as an unusual "alien" sort of sonata for Beethoven. Although traditionally associated with the late sonatas, it seems quite different from the rest of them, except in the use of fugue that was a key hallmark of late Beethoven. Still, the Hammerklavier fugue is such a different sort of composition from the Grosse Fuge, despite sharing the key of B-flat.

Other late favorites include Op. 101 and 109, both to play and listen to. I love Op. 78 dearly, but for some reason, it is not a sonata I am as happy listening to -- I must play, it instead!  Actually, the same holds true for the early Pastorale Sonata, Op. 28, and the sublime E minor sonata, Op. 90.

I do very much enjoy the more famous nicknamed sonatas: Pathetique, Waldstein, Appassionata -- but for some reason, they do not speak to me as much as these other ones.


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## ChamberNut

I've been in a solo piano mood the last week, upon listening to Schubert's last piano sonata, Schumann's Kinderszenen and some of Chopin's Nocturne's, that I've decided to go through the Beethoven piano sonata cycle.

Today it's the final 3, Op. 109, 110, 111


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## ChamberNut

A rediscovery of sorts. Listening through the Beethoven piano sonata cycle, I've haven't listened to Piano Sonata No. 15 _Pastoral _ in D major Op. 28 in a long time. Such a pleasant, cheerful sonata.

I should listen to this again on Sunday morning, walking with coffee in hand.


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## Hexameron

Oh yes... Despite all the portraits of a frowning Beethoven, I can picture him smiling when I hear the "Pastoral" sonata. I also find Op. 14 No. 2 (Piano Sonata No. 10) in the same "pleasant, cheerful" league as the Pastoral.


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## Oneiros

I've only heard the Appassionata once, in performance, and it seemed pretty crazy and tempestuous, even for Beethoven. Other than this, the Moonlight sonata is a favourite, particularly the final movement. Overall I haven't heard many of these. Are the final few sonatas anything like Beethoven's late quartets?


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## cjr3559

For me, the ultimate question is where do you draw the lines between each period? I think there may be more distinct divisions than just "early", "middle", and "late".

If pressed to create a three part separation to group the Sonatas, this is how I would do it:

Early: Sonatas 1-7 (Op. 2 - Op. 10)

Middle: Sonatas 8-20 (Op. 13 - Op. 49)

Late: Sonatas 21-32 (Op. 53 - Op. 111)

As you can see, all three divisions overlap into another period of Beethoven's life. For instance Op. 13 was composed in 1800-1801. I would consider that to be early in his life, though we know that stylistically, he was already experimenting and this work was one of his more mature pieces of the period. 

The same holds true with what I classified as "Late". The Waldstein and Appassionata Sonatas were definitely ground breaking compositions, but he composed them in the middle of his lifetime, around the same time as the "Eroica" symphony. When compared to the late, late sonatas (Nos. 28-32) their form almost appears to be very straight foward when compared to their later counterparts, even though as far as Sonata form is concerned, they were way ahead of their time.

So, if I were to group the Sonatas into my own "periods", I personally would divide them into 7:

Period 1: Sonatas 1-4 (Op. 2 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 7)
Period 2: Sonatas 5-8 (Op. 10 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 13) 
Period 3: Sonatas 9-14 (Op. 14 Nos. 1-2, Op. 22, Op. 26, Op. 27 Nos. 1-2)
Period 4: Sonatas 15-20 (Op. 28, Op. 31 Nos. 1-3, Op. 49 Nos. 1-2)
Period 5: Sonatas 21-23 (Op. 53, Op. 54, Op. 57)
Period 6: Sonatas 24-27 (Op. 78, Op. 79, Op. 81a, Op. 90)
Period 7: Sonatas 28-32 (Op. 101, Op. 106, Op. 109, Op. 110, Op. 111)

For obvious reasons, it is nearly impossible to micro-classify the 32 sonats, mainly due to the fact that many works were written prior to others in the listing, however were published at a later date. For example:

Op. 14 was written before Op. 13, however it is my understanding that Beethoven wanted to give the "Pathetique" special consideration, therefore it was published seperately ahead of the Op. 14 sonatas. (This same consideration was taken upon publishing the first two piano concerti as well). Another example of piano sonatas published out of written order would be the Op. 49 works which were written in 1795-96.

So this still poses the question: What is the best way to classify the Sonatas into periods? By the works themselves, or should they be considered as a parallel with the rest of his musical output?


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## Manuel

Oneiros said:


> I've only heard the Appassionata once, in performance, and it seemed pretty crazy and tempestuous, even for Beethoven.


Beware. Many times pianists speed up at the third movement and the result, despite pyrotechnic, does not sound like that thing Beethoven had in mind. (I'm thinking in Yves Nat while writting this).

Ever heard Gould in the _Presto agitato _of the C sharp minor sonata? He runs throught it in about four minutes.


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## starry

cjr3559 said:


> For me, the ultimate question is where do you draw the lines between each period? I think there may be more distinct divisions than just "early", "middle", and "late".


I'd rather look at them as individual works, or maybe as part of their opus groups. You can look at them as to where they stand in his overall output but don't lose sight of each piece's individuality with their different aims and character. No30 is one of my big favourites but I can also like (in a different way) nos 19 and 20 his earliest works in this area. I'm not sure if Beethoven himself cared what 'period' he wrote a work in except maybe at the end where he seemed to think his last works were an improvement on what he had done before. But really Beethoven gave his best in this series of works as a whole.



Evan Roberts said:


> Well the Pathetique seems to be the Eroica of Beethoven's Piano works, the first masterpiece. I have no doubt that all the famous ones are deserving of their status as great works, but I also particularly like No. 17 'The Tempest', along with the little discussed 27th and 28th. My favourite is either Hammerklavier, Appassionata or the last one


Why does there have to an Eroica of the piano sonatas? Yeh you could say some pieces are grander or bigger but I think it's best just to look at them individually as to whether they succeed on their own merit. Beethoven did nice sonatas before the 8th, for example his 2nd.

My two biggest blind spots in the sonatas have probably been no26 and the last movement of the Hammerklavier, not sure if I've heard a performance that's fully convinced me about them.


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## Ravellian

The Hammerklavier is a lot like his Diabelli Variations - probably his two biggest intellectual achievements in the piano solo genre, but both are rather difficult to grasp for the listener. They are truly two of those pieces that require about 10 listens or so before one starts to appreciate its complexities. Are they as emotionally profound as the Appassionata or Pathetique? Probably not, since that was not his main goal in these pieces. His goal was to stretch the limits of what was possible in the traditional forms of sonata and variations.. and that he did successfully.


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## Guest

Don't forget the Andras Schiff Beethoven lectures that are available as a free d/l they cover all the sonatas also a lot more d/l under "recorded music" "free down loads"

Schiff lectures


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## shsherm

Andante said:


> Don't forget the Andras Schiff Beethoven lectures that are available as a free d/l they cover all the sonatas also a lot more d/l under "recorded music" "free down loads"
> 
> Schiff lectures


I heard several of the Schiff performances at Disney Hall in LA over the last two seasons.. I thought he played them very well indeed.


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## Efraim

I have all 32, several of them in 5, 6, 7 or more interpretations (Richter, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Gulda, Pollini etc.); there are only subtle differences between them. It seems that playing Beethoven's sonatas is not a big problem. The slow movement of the Hammerklavier (106) is an exception: I have eight recordings of it and heard a few more; all play this 3d movement at different paces, but all too slowly – even Richter who was known for his demonic dynamism -, so it falls apart and becomes dragged and almost boring. All but one; the guy who plays it the way I like (he is not famous at all) obviously holds that it must be slow but not stationary: you must feel that it is in continuous progress. This is meditative music but not reverie.


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## Guest

I have just downloaded the set of Beethoven P Son set By Brendel (no accompanying Booklet) I also have an old set by Ashkenazy, in the Ashkenazy set they are* in opus sequence *whereas the Brendel set follows a different pattern e.g., CD1 of Ashkenazy has Op2#1 #2 #3 the Brendel has Op2#1 #2 then Op13 Pathetique. These differences crop up a few times 
my question:: is this for a particular reason or just a whim by Brendel? The Ashkanazy fit onto 10CDs the Brendel takes 11CDs. Just curious.

I just realised that the Brendel set from the 70s would be transfers from vinyl, I think I have answered my own question


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## tonphil1960

109, 110 and 111, I have been bitten by a Beethoven bug recently and read on John Suchet's great site about these 3 Sonata's. Not having them in my collection I bought them immediately and was very moved my these pieces. I can't comment on the rest of the Sonata's but am on a mission to obtain every Beethoven work I can, study his works and then decide on my favorite of all. It's going to take a while, but it's gonna be fun. 

Regards Tony


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## David58117

tonphil1960 said:


> 109, 110 and 111, I have been bitten by a Beethoven bug recently and read on John Suchet's great site about these 3 Sonata's. Not having them in my collection I bought them immediately and was very moved my these pieces. I can't comment on the rest of the Sonata's but am on a mission to obtain every Beethoven work I can, study his works and then decide on my favorite of all. It's going to take a while, but it's gonna be fun.
> 
> Regards Tony


Cough cough Brilliant Classics "Complete Beethoven Edition" cough cough.

It's definitely a lovely box with some big names in it, especially if you're just hearing certain works for the first time. You've got Gulda for piano sonatas/concertos , Henryk Szeryng for Violin Concertos, Guarneri String Quartets, Kurt Masur Symphonies, Brendel piano variations...these aren't bargain bin nobodies at all.

Anyway, I LOVE this box (and the other Brilliant Classics releases too) so I highly recommend it.


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## tonphil1960

Thanks much David, I am going to look for it right now.

Tony


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## Crassus

Why don't you try Arrau's version of Beethoven sonatas?


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## DebussyDoesDallas

Once you get the bug for these works, much like the string quartets, you can never get enough, with so many subtly varying interpretations and endless depths of understanding, both of the work and of yourself, that are evoked on each listening.

Like the late quartets, the late sonatas, especially the final trilogy, will be on my playlists to the end of my days--or the end od days, whichever comes first.

In terms of complete sets, just when I think I've found the ultimate, I'll discover one sonata on it that's just *wrong* compared to my preferred rendition, as well as one that's just perfect. So far, I think every collection needs at least some Arrau, Brendel, Pollini (no complete set from him), Gilels (almost complete set), Gulda, Brautigam (my favorite HIPish forte pianist I've heard) Gould (controversial, yes, because when he clicks, he clicks BIG TIME) plus plenty of other names I've yet to check out. Not enough time in the day to hear everything.


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## Mandryka

Leporello87 said:


> I really enjoy the Hammerklavier sonata, but it's always sort of struck me as an unusual "alien" sort of sonata for Beethoven. Although traditionally associated with the late sonatas, it seems quite different from the rest of them, except in the use of fugue that was a key hallmark of late Beethoven. Still, the Hammerklavier fugue is such a different sort of composition from the Grosse Fuge, despite sharing the key of B-flat.
> 
> Other late favorites include Op. 101 and 109, both to play and listen to. I love Op. 78 dearly, but for some reason, it is not a sonata I am as happy listening to -- I must play, it instead!  Actually, the same holds true for the early Pastorale Sonata, Op. 28, and the sublime E minor sonata, Op. 90.
> 
> I do very much enjoy the more famous nicknamed sonatas: Pathetique, Waldstein, Appassionata -- but for some reason, they do not speak to me as much as these other ones.


It's true that I'd always linked the Hammerklavier with op 109- 111 without really thinking about it. Then I saw a review of Kempff's newly released live cycle (1961, Tokyo) which said that he made the op 106 sound too much like a late sonata, too much like one of the last three.

What are the main differences between the late sonatas and op 106? I'm not sure what's going on.

I'll just add that I listened to some Beethoven this week, a really nice performance of op 2/3 played by Arrau in Prague - an old APR CD I think. Very good, I like the op2s a lot.


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## nasoferm

cjr3559 said:


> For me, the ultimate question is where do you draw the lines between each period? I think there may be more distinct divisions than just "early", "middle", and "late".
> 
> If pressed to create a three part separation to group the Sonatas, this is how I would do it:
> 
> Early: Sonatas 1-7 (Op. 2 - Op. 10)
> 
> Middle: Sonatas 8-20 (Op. 13 - Op. 49)
> 
> Late: Sonatas 21-32 (Op. 53 - Op. 111)
> 
> As you can see, all three divisions overlap into another period of Beethoven's life. For instance Op. 13 was composed in 1800-1801. I would consider that to be early in his life, though we know that stylistically, he was already experimenting and this work was one of his more mature pieces of the period.
> 
> The same holds true with what I classified as "Late". The Waldstein and Appassionata Sonatas were definitely ground breaking compositions, but he composed them in the middle of his lifetime, around the same time as the "Eroica" symphony. When compared to the late, late sonatas (Nos. 28-32) their form almost appears to be very straight foward when compared to their later counterparts, even though as far as Sonata form is concerned, they were way ahead of their time.
> 
> So, if I were to group the Sonatas into my own "periods", I personally would divide them into 7:
> 
> Period 1: Sonatas 1-4 (Op. 2 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 7)
> Period 2: Sonatas 5-8 (Op. 10 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 13)
> Period 3: Sonatas 9-14 (Op. 14 Nos. 1-2, Op. 22, Op. 26, Op. 27 Nos. 1-2)
> Period 4: Sonatas 15-20 (Op. 28, Op. 31 Nos. 1-3, Op. 49 Nos. 1-2)
> Period 5: Sonatas 21-23 (Op. 53, Op. 54, Op. 57)
> Period 6: Sonatas 24-27 (Op. 78, Op. 79, Op. 81a, Op. 90)
> Period 7: Sonatas 28-32 (Op. 101, Op. 106, Op. 109, Op. 110, Op. 111)
> 
> For obvious reasons, it is nearly impossible to micro-classify the 32 sonats, mainly due to the fact that many works were written prior to others in the listing, however were published at a later date. For example:
> 
> Op. 14 was written before Op. 13, however it is my understanding that Beethoven wanted to give the "Pathetique" special consideration, therefore it was published seperately ahead of the Op. 14 sonatas. (This same consideration was taken upon publishing the first two piano concerti as well). Another example of piano sonatas published out of written order would be the Op. 49 works which were written in 1795-96.
> 
> So this still poses the question: What is the best way to classify the Sonatas into periods? By the works themselves, or should they be considered as a parallel with the rest of his musical output?


I agree with your periods; early, middle and late is not really enough when looking at the facts of what Beethoven was really going through when composing the piano sonatas. But I would like to change them around a little bit.

*Period 1: Sonatas 1-4 (Op. 2 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 7)*
Composed 1793-95 this (Op.2) is already the Beethoven we know and love, imho. People hear Haydn and sure he's there, but this is pure Beethoven. But they weren't published until march 1796. They should for sure be looked at as belonging to their own period. This is the premier of Beethoven - The Pianist. Maybe the first period should end right here simply because Op.7 was composed 1796/97 and parts of Op.10 was composed in 1795 so they might "belong" together. But clearly when looking at Op.10 - something is new! The line has to be drawn somewhere 

*Period 2: Sonatas 5-8 (Op. 10 Nos. 1-3 and Op. 13) *
The start of composing Op.10 was in 1795 but published 3 years later, they come in a package. Why group them together with Op.13? Op.13 was long considered to have been composed in 1798 but later we have learned that the paper used for Op.13's original wasn't used by Beethoven until 1799 so there might not have been a lot of time between the compositions Op.13 and Op14. BUT...since Op.14 is a step away from the row of 'Grande Sonates', it makes sense....but then with Op.22 he's back to Grande Sonates to sort of end the series and you can almost hear it. It's not boring but I think he realized that he was now at a point where he risked to be 'stuck' if not doing something completely new. Thus; I'd like to move Op.14 and Op.22 into Period 2.

*Period 3: Sonatas 9-14 (Op. 14 Nos. 1-2, Op. 22, Op. 26, Op. 27 Nos. 1-2)*
Time for a change! 
First, Beethoven went to Hetzendorf for the summer. Heavy clouds could be seen on the summersky. Beethoven had a dark secret. This is one year before the Heiligenstadt-testament and now he can't hold it in anymore. He writes to Wegeler and suddenly reveals that he is tormented by the neverending sounds in his ears. With that said it's natural that Op.26 marks the start of the third period. We know that he was working very hard during the summer and these three sonatas. But actually, timewise Op.28 was composed from start to finish during the same 6 months. Now why is Op.28 so different? This is not experimental music anymore. Well, I choose to believe that where there is darkness, there can also be light. The pastoral feeling in Op.28 can for sure be connected to "a good day" in Hetzendorf. We will never know, but I place Op.28 in this third period.

*Period 4: Sonatas 15-20 (Op. 28, Op. 31 Nos. 1-3, Op. 49 Nos. 1-2)*
It is 1802. Op 31 is not a big leap in terms piano development for Beethoven, but when we know the history about Heiligenstadt this is the start of a new period. It is bold, dark and tragic. It is bizzarre. It is Beethoven.
Now, Op 49 1-2 does not belong to this period. They where composed in 1795-96-97 so they should timewise belong to the first period.

This means that the fourth period would only consist of Op.31. Well, I think it's fair enough when considering what was happening in Beethovens life. This also shows that it makes more sense to look at the pianosonatas in a different way, more about that later in this post.

*Period 5: Sonatas 21-23 (Op. 53, Op. 54, Op. 57)*
Waldstein! It stands on its own and does not really connect with Op.54 Enough said. Op.54 composed in 1803 was again something new! 2 movements and really something special. Now, how does this period make any sense? Well, in august 1804 Beethoven offered Breitkopf&Härtel: Christus am Ölberge, the Eroica, the trippleconcerto and 3 pianosonatas - however he was as usual promising a little bit too much since the Appassionata was not completed or even close to it. It was mainly composed during 1805. When looking ahead towards Op. 78 we understand that this period of very different compositions has come to an end.

*Period 6: Sonatas 24-27 (Op. 78, Op. 79, Op. 81a, Op. 90)*
Suddenly a leap of 4 years without any piano sonatas composed. But what a return!! The introduction of Op.78 is magnificent and in my book it is SO different compared to the end of Period 5. That introduction is a one-time-only and leaves us waiting, but in vain. It never returns! It's like Beethoven suddenly looks inside himself and then suddenly realizes that it's too much and changes everything into a beatufil lyrical piece. Op.79 is a really pretty and beautiful piece with a happy ending. That first movement is just like a flow of water and still with variation and sudden changes á la Beethoven. If one means that these "bridge-sonatas" are just easy music, they are wrong! It has all the components of our Beethoven and should not be neglected  Onwards to 1810 and still in the sixth period as suggested by cjr3559 in his post. I agree. Like the last drops of happiness falling from Beethovens hands, Op.79 leaves us hanging. The sadness of his friend Rudolph leaving can be heard in the first three chords; Le-be-wohl (farewell). It gets better of course, when Rudolph returns! Is this the end of the sixth period going TOTALLY against what everybody has been saying for years and years? Well, Op.90 was composed about 5 years after Op.81a, which is the longest hiatus for Beethoven regarding the piano sonatas. Op.90 was published as a payment to the publisher Steiner that had taken over a loan that Beethoven had given to his brothers widow Johanna. When the payment wasn't made Beethoven gave Steiner Op.90 for free. The piece itself does not contain the introvert view of Beethoven that so clearly starts with Op.101 but I do not want to leave it alone, and therefore I agree; it can stay in the sixth period.

*Period 7: Sonatas 28-32 (Op. 101, Op. 106, Op. 109, Op. 110, Op. 111)*
We have reached the end and the beginning, or the beginning of the end. 1816 is the year. One could possibly pair Op.101 with Op.90 and make it "the lyrical seventh period" and then start the eight and final period with Op.106. Listen to the second movement of Op.90 and then the first movement of Op.101. See? It belongs together... For now I'll let nr 27 and 28 be separated 
Anyway. The rest is just a path towards introvert piano music for poor Beethoven. But what music it is! It is hard to describe in any other

Well, this is how I view the piano sonatas. I want to conclude that it is a wonderful thing to follow Beethovens piano sonatas as a flow of development.


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## millionrainbows

My "obscure" cycles are:

*Robert Taub (VOX), p*lus, he wrote a book about it.

*Idil Biret: A* fantastic female pianist. She does the Liszt symphonic transcriptions as well.

*Audiophile Classics:* This label issued a cycle on gold discs; the recording is superb, as well as the performances, which are by various obscure Russian pianists. You won't get bored with this one!


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## DavidA

DebussyDoesDallas said:


> In terms of complete sets, just when I think I've found the ultimate, I'll discover one sonata on it that's just *wrong* compared to my preferred rendition, as well as one that's just perfect. .


Yes, there can never be a 'perfect' cycle of these works.
Of those I have I have found that Glenn Gould is very very interesting. At his best you think it might be Beethoven himself improvising. 
Kempff is very good indeed and magical in many places. The 1950s set carries the magic best.
Must say I was disappointed in the cd of Gilels. Too much banging, I thought.
Richter is great but did not record a complete set.
Serkin ditto but is a great master of these works.
Schnabel us - Schnabel - immense but the recordings are ancient. When I first heard him I was surprised how idiosyncratic he actually sounds.
Pollini - great on the late sonatas as is Graffman and Solomon.
The list is endless - so many have something to say yet no-one says it all! Which is what Beethoven would have wanted!


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## apricissimus

millionrainbows said:


> *Idil Biret: A* fantastic female pianist. She does the Liszt symphonic transcriptions as well.!


You could have stopped at "fantastic".


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## nasoferm

DavidA said:


> Yes, there can never be a 'perfect' cycle of these works.
> Of those I have I have found that Glenn Gould is very very interesting. At his best you think it might be Beethoven himself improvising.
> Kempff is very good indeed and magical in many places. The 1950s set carries the magic best.
> Must say I was disappointed in the cd of Gilels. Too much banging, I thought.
> Richter is great but did not record a complete set.
> Serkin ditto but is a great master of these works.
> Schnabel us - Schnabel - immense but the recordings are ancient. When I first heard him I was surprised how idiosyncratic he actually sounds.
> Pollini - great on the late sonatas as is Graffman and Solomon.
> The list is endless - so many have something to say yet no-one says it all! Which is what Beethoven would have wanted!


I don't agree at all. I have found my endgame recording in Stewart Goodyears recent cycle. For me, that's simply as good as it gets. I've gotten rid of about 5-6 cycles after getting Goodyears.
It has been a lot of searching and endless hours of listening...


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## millionrainbows




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## millionrainbows

[HR][/HR]


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## hpowders

One truly does need a fine set of the Beethoven 32. 

I have the Annie Fischer set. Also the fortepiano set by Ronald Brautigham. Both sets, extremely fine.

I have 5 CDs of the Garrick Ohlsson set but got bored with his Chopin-like interpretations, so it will remain incomplete.


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## AH music

Is anyone else familiar with the set by Bernard Roberts? Hardly a star name, and he gets mixed reviews (negatives for sound and some reported errors in the long takes, rather than interpretation) - but I like them (although I have not done a lot of comparative listening). I have favourites from all the periods, but especially like the three last ones and the Op 31 set. They certainly repay concentrated listening and the effort to get to know and appreciate the ones that don't seem so easily accessible. Like some others, I still struggle with the Hammerklavier.


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## Blake

Paul Lewis is one of the newer cycles that's pretty sweet.


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## shangoyal

Usually, I listen to Claudio Arrau for the later, more serious sonatas and Wilhelm Kempff for the early and lighter sonatas. But Arrau is great in almost all, while Kempff is brilliant in some while being average in others (like the Moonlight). Haven't really tried any other pianist.


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## Selby

Vesuvius said:


> Paul Lewis is one of the newer cycles that's pretty sweet.


I like it. I'm not won by it, but then again, I've yet to be won by an single performer's cycle yet.


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## Selby

I read that Murray Perahia's current project is the Beethoven cycle. I am definitely interested.
(Although I'd prefer he would spend his time contributing to his Schubert repertoire


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## Vaneyes

LvB's Op. 2 would be a career for many. Once into Op. 7, the artistry is becoming something unusual.

Performance-wise the G's seem to have it. Gulda, Gilels, GG.


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## Alypius

Let me recommend a new set: Igor Levit, _Beethoven: The Late Piano Sonatas_ (Sony, 2013). Not a complete cycle -- at least not yet, but worth exploring.










I'm still absorbing it, but I find it a truly remarkable achievement. It's hard to believe that this is Levit's debut recording -- he's still in his 20s. Where do you go after this? It initially went out of print very quickly -- probably because of the buzz it was getting, not only in reviews, but via word-of-mouth. I suspect that Sony was taken aback by the surge in sales, and it took a while for them to get it available again, but I see that Amazon again has it. Here's some sample reviews:



> "Those who are searching for perfection can stop here. I have praised many sets of the last five Beethoven Piano Sonatas, and I wouldn't want to withdraw any of the plaudits I have given them, but this set, the first solo recording from Russo-German pianist Igor Levit, sets a new standard that will be very difficult to surpass…Revelatory experiences like this don't come often in a lifetime."
> --Michael Tanner, _BBC Music Magazine_





> "Imagine, if you will, the intellectual rigor of Brendel, the clarity of articulation of Pollini, combined with - excuse the pun - the wisdom of Solomon, and then you get an idea of the extraordinary combination of gifts that one finds fused here. Without supplanting any of those three (or, in my top five, Richard Goode and Schnabel), this set earns its place firmly alongside them. This is the finest release to have crossed my path this year."
> --Nicholas Salwey, _International Record Review_





> "All of the positive attention and high praise that 26-year-old pianist Igor Levit has garnered in Europe is thoroughly justified by his Sony Classical debut release encompassing Beethoven's last five sonatas. Levit's affinity for the composer's essentially linear style and intense expressivity borders on clairvoyance, if you'll forgive the cliché. You notice this immediately in Op. 101's first and third movements, where thoughtful voice leading and flexible lyricism mesh into a single entity. Impressive pianistic poise and thoughtful dynamic scaling give clarity and meaning to the Scherzo's obsessive march rhythms and difficult register leaps as well as to the Fugue's knotty textures. Levit takes the "Hammerklavier" first-movement Allegro at a tempo close to the composer's admittedly optimistic metronome marking, yet the music ebbs and flows with characterful assurance. The Scherzo also takes bracing wing; it features biting cross-rhythmic accents and a ferocious ascending F major scale from bottom to top. You might describe Levit's masterful Adagio sostenuto as a fusion of Rudolf Serkin's classical reserve and Claudio Arrau's depth of tone and vocally oriented inflection. In the finale's introductory Largo, Levit piles into the jazzy broken-chord accelerando with shattering abandon, and brings plenty of drama, dynamic contrast, and varied articulations to the fugue. Following Op. 109's eloquently shaped Vivace, Levit's well sprung and sharply detailed second movement is one of the few on disc to make Beethoven's detached and legato phrasings audible to the point where the music sounds faster than it actually is performed. Levit's heartfelt, beautifully sung out, and assiduously unified third-movement variations easily measure up to the catalog's finest versions. Op. 110 also stands out for Levit's brilliant synthesis of personal poetry and scrupulous detail, while Op. 111 matches Mauruzio Pollini's extraordinary exactitude (the first movement's driving 16th-note sequences impeccably in place, the Arietta's dotted rhythms' spot-on accuracy and inner "swing") with an extra hint of cantabile warmth. In short, this is Beethoven playing of the highest distinction, not to be missed."
> -- Jed Distler, ClassicsToday.com. Rating: 10 (of possible 10) Artistic Quality / 10 (of possible 10) Sound Quality


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## hpowders

For the adventurous, I recommend Ronald Brautigam's fine fortepiano set of the 32.

Excellent performances played on reconstructions of pianofortes available in Beethoven's day.

Very refreshing to hear this music on instruments it was intended for.


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## Selby

Alypius said:


> Let me recommend a new set: Igor Levit, _Beethoven: The Late Piano Sonatas_ (Sony, 2013). Not a complete cycle -- at least not yet, but worth exploring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still absorbing it, but I find it a truly remarkable achievement. It's hard to believe that this is Levit's debut recording -- he's still in his 20s. Where do you go after this? It initially went out of print very quickly -- probably because of the buzz it was getting, not only in reviews, but via word-of-mouth. I suspect that Sony was taken aback by the surge in sales, and it took a while for them to get it available again, but I see that Amazon again has it. Here's some sample reviews:


I have been accused of not appreciating Beethoven as much as I should, especially considering solo keyboard and string quartet are the two genres of music I listen to most.

I like Gilels Op. 106. I used to be very fond of Schiff's Op. 109. I like Hough's and Denk's Op. 111. I am fond of the Pollini collection. I am not enthusiastic about any single performers tackling of these 5 sonatas.

In general, I firmly believe in supporting new artists.

Upon your review I just bought this. I will update in a couple of days.

cheers.


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## Alypius

Mitchell said:


> I have been accused of not appreciating Beethoven as much as I should, especially considering solo keyboard and string quartet are the two genres of music I listen to most.
> 
> I like Gilels Op. 106. I used to be very fond of Schiff's Op. 109. I like Hough's and Denk's Op. 111. I am fond of the Pollini collection. I am not enthusiastic about any single performers tackling of these 5 sonatas.
> 
> In general, I firmly believe in supporting new artists.
> 
> Upon your review I just bought this. I will update in a couple of days.
> 
> cheers.


I too think it important to support new artists. Glad I'm not alone in this. Gilels is, for me, the most consistent overall, but I enjoy Brendel and Lewis (and wish that Denk would consider doing more). It is clear that Levit has something to say -- nothing idiosyncratic, just doing the works with verve and heart and entering into it all with singular focus and warmth. I look forward to hearing how you find it. All the best.


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## Selby

Re: Levit

At first I was surprised by the tempo he set with the opening of Op. 106, when the adagio came, I was in heaven. One of the most introspective and beautiful third movements I've heard for this sonata.

I like the opening of the Op. 110, which is often a good judge of what's to come.

I'm not sure what to think of his close of the Op. 111. I'm going to listen to it again today. I'm intrigued, but my initial reaction is "I prefer the Hough."

On the whole I find the interpretation valid, emotional, sincere, and worthwhile. I love, love, love hearing young artist take on these great works of existential inquiry. If the rest of you are like me, my greatest time of existential dread was my teenage years. In my thirties I am much more 'meh' and easy-going when twenty years ago I used to feel everything so deeply. I think we forget this as we age. I dislike how there is often this culture in classical that thinks the "deep" pieces need six or seven decades to give their due. Levit is a prime example of this.

I have so many cycles of these sonatas. The most recent full cycles I've bought were the Schiff and Lewis, but I have the Brendel and Kepmff and Barenboim and so on and so on. Never was totally grabbed.

I recommend this collection.


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## julianoq

Alypius said:


> Let me recommend a new set: Igor Levit, _Beethoven: The Late Piano Sonatas_ (Sony, 2013). Not a complete cycle -- at least not yet, but worth exploring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still absorbing it, but I find it a truly remarkable achievement. It's hard to believe that this is Levit's debut recording -- he's still in his 20s. Where do you go after this? It initially went out of print very quickly -- probably because of the buzz it was getting, not only in reviews, but via word-of-mouth. I suspect that Sony was taken aback by the surge in sales, and it took a while for them to get it available again, but I see that Amazon again has it. Here's some sample reviews:


Thanks for recommending this. Listening to the Op.109 and enjoying his style, very impressive for a musician that young. It reminded me a little of Brendel's playing, with more energy and freshness but still not exagerating. I will be listening to the other sonatas next.


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## Blancrocher

On the subject of recent Beethoven sonata recordings, here's an interesting review from Musicweb:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Mar14/Beethoven_sonata_survey.htm


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## Alypius

Mitchell said:


> Re: Levit
> 
> At first I was surprised by the tempo he set with the opening of Op. 106, when the adagio came, I was in heaven. One of the most introspective and beautiful third movements I've heard for this sonata.
> 
> I like the opening of the Op. 110, which is often a good judge of what's to come.
> 
> I'm not sure what to think of his close of the Op. 111. I'm going to listen to it again today. I'm intrigued, but my initial reaction is "I prefer the Hough."
> 
> On the whole I find the interpretation valid, emotional, sincere, and worthwhile. I love, love, love hearing young artist take on these great works of existential inquiry. If the rest of you are like me, my greatest time of existential dread was my teenage years. In my thirties I am much more 'meh' and easy-going when twenty years ago I used to feel everything so deeply. I think we forget this as we age. I dislike how there is often this culture in classical that thinks the "deep" pieces need six or seven decades to give their due. Levit is a prime example of this.
> 
> I have so many cycles of these sonatas. The most recent full cycles I've bought were the Schiff and Lewis, but I have the Brendel and Kepmff and Barenboim and so on and so on. Never was totally grabbed.
> 
> I recommend this collection.


Mitchell, Thanks for the review. I'm glad to hear that my recommendation proved worthwhile.

I've never studied the score of the Hammerklavier but I gather that the metronome marking is very fast and usually ignored. One of the comments that I read that Levit is unusual conscientious in adhering to Beethoven's tempo markings. If you (and any others) know the score and can comment, I would appreciate it. But, yes, it's the fastest opening I've ever heard -- but I find that it works. The architecture leaps into focus in a way it can get blurred by slower tempi.

I'm not sure that I know your reference to "the Hough" -- do you mean Stephen Hough the pianist? If so, has he done a notable cycle? I have his Chopin and his Rachmaninov, but have never heard any Beethoven by him.

Back to Levit: I love his accounts of #30 - #32. (I'm listening to his boogie-woogie in the #32, Arietta at the moment -- wonderfully spirited, brilliant shifts in volume through that latter half -- though I'm very fond of Jeremy Denk's recent account of this). Sonata #30 (op. 109) may be my favorite solo piano work, and I enjoy his casting of the shimmerings of the latter third of the opening movement.


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## Selby

Alypius said:


> Mitchell, Thanks for the review. I'm glad to hear that my recommendation proved worthwhile.
> 
> I'm not sure that I know your reference to "the Hough" -- do you mean Stephen Hough the pianist? If so, has he done a notable cycle? I have his Chopin and his Rachmaninov, but have never heard any Beethoven by him.
> 
> Back to Levit: I love his accounts of #30 - #32. (I'm listening to his boogie-woogie in the #32, Arietta at the moment -- wonderfully spirited, brilliant shifts in volume through that latter half -- though I'm very fond of Jeremy Denk's recent account of this). Sonata #30 (op. 109) may be my favorite solo piano work, and I enjoy his casting of the shimmerings of the latter third of the opening movement.


Yes, Stephen Hough did a performance of Op. 111 on a recital recording, which I find very haunting and beautiful. I've listened to this Levit 3 times now I enjoy and respect it more with each spin. cheers.


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## Blancrocher

Alex Ross has an interesting review of a recent recital by Igor Levit of the last 3 sonatas in NYC:

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2014/04/14/140414crmu_music_ross (subscription required for full article)

The tenor of the review is that Levit's recording is uncommonly masterful (as others in this very thread have suggested), but that for Ross the interesting thing was that live he took a lot of chances: made mistakes trying to achieve fast tempo markings, and tried for unique effects. Ross thought there was room for improvement, but that that only made things more interesting.

The most interesting revelation in the article for me was that Levit's been working on under-recorded composers, like Rzewski, Wolpe, Feldman, and Sorabji. I hope recordings and recitals incorporating these composers will follow (though perhaps this isn't the best place to say so :lol.


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## hoodjem

Sonata no. 30 in E, op. 109.
The third movement, _Gesangvoll mit innigster Empfindung_, is as lovely and profound as anything Beethoven ever wrote.

Listening to this movement feels as if one has taken a life-changing but fulfilling journey.


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