# Alzheimer and classical music, a good match?



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

I read an article about the positive influence of music on Alzheimer patients. It seems that Alzheimer patients who got lost in this world, can really connect to music. There are people who visit elderly homes with a set of wireless headphones and playlists, with great results.

If I read which music they play, the most classical option is my countryman Andre Rieu. 
I wonder why. Is it because he is the most popular and easiest available classical musician?

I wonder if it would work to have Alzheimer patients listen to more 'difficult' classical music, like the pieces we discuss here on the forum. Also if these people are new to this music. Wouldn't it be great if one could still connect to a somewhat deeper musical level if your world is limited to an elderly home, often even behind locked doors? What would happen if you would hear Mahler, Bach, Wagner, Schumann etc etc for the first time all in the intimacy of your own headphone? Could it be the same experience that anyone of us had when we first got to learn our favourite music and were carried away by it? If it would work, I guess the lonely lives of many people could be enriched. 

Does anyone have experience with this kind of experiment?

Am curious to hear your views.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Not an experiment but a case in point. Someone who was in late stage kidney failure experienced, and in lucid minutes commented on, how having a recording of Bach organ music played would bring him back from wherever his mind had wandered. Incidentally this was a particular recording which he had enjoyed for many years.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Music is processed initially in the basal ganglia which are less vulnerable to destruction than the cerebral cortex during the early and mid-stages of Alzheimer’s. Thus, it has not been unusual that Alzheimer patients show signs of recognition and pleasure when presented with music they were familiar with before the onset of the disease.

I don’t think the evaluation of more difficult unfamiliar music has been tested on Alzheimer patients. However, it has been said that since the processing of new music occurs at the basal ganglia level and thus, new music is initially processed similarly in normal and Alzheimer patients, it is possible that Alzheimer patients might enjoy hearing new music. However, since advanced processing of ‘difficult’ CM likely involves higher centers of the brain possibly affected by the Alzheimer’s, the ability of the patient might be limited in doing so.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I do have some experience with this. No surprise about Andre Rieu - he plays "happy" music, and everything is plays is familar. And that's what Alz patients seem to respond to - what they know and like. My late father-in-law was an Alz patient and seemed lost to the world. But boy, put on his favorite country music and he'd light up, tap his hands and toes, sing along...it was amazing. For him Bob Wills, Hank Williams, Marty Robbins, Gene Autry and Sons of the Pioneers wakened some response. If he was in the room when I had "my" music on, there was no response of any kind. Beethoven, Mahler, Prokofiev, Dvorak - meaningless. He never listened to that when he wasn't an Alz patient, so no surprise there.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

NLAdriaan said:


> I read an article about the positive influence of music on Alzheimer patients. It seems that Alzheimer patients who got lost in this world, can really connect to music. There are people who visit elderly homes with a set of wireless headphones and playlists, with great results.
> 
> If I read which music they play, the most classical option is my countryman Andre Rieu.
> I wonder why. Is it because he is the most popular and easiest available classical musician?
> ...


my grandmother when she had Alzheimer thought that the figures embroidered on the cushions would have died if someone turned the cushions upside down. I'm not sure she would have been able to appreciate Wagner.
In general I suspect that they could appreciate songs of pieces of music they know already. For what I know the memory for music is quite strong: there was a famous jazz pianist (I don't remember who he was, and no, I'm not talking of Horace Silver, altough he had alzheimer too) who was famous to be able to play from memory thousand of pieces, and he had that ability even with alzheimer.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

mbhaub said:


> I do have some experience with this. No surprise about Andre Rieu - he plays "happy" music, and everything is plays is familar. And that's what Alz patients seem to respond to - what they know and like. My late father-in-law was an Alz patient and seemed lost to the world. But boy, put on his favorite country music and he'd light up, tap his hands and toes, sing along...it was amazing. For him Bob Wills, Hank Williams, Marty Robbins, Gene Autry and Sons of the Pioneers wakened some response. If he was in the room when I had "my" music on, there was no response of any kind. Beethoven, Mahler, Prokofiev, Dvorak - meaningless. He never listened to that when he wasn't an Alz patient, so no surprise there.


I may have posted this before on this forum. My dad had Alzheimer's. During the last year of his life the one way I knew how to communicate with him was to sing the show tunes he had listened to since his youth. When he was in comfort care during the last two weeks I left a CD player in his room playing Ella and Frank on a loop. Several days before he passed, Ella was singing some Cole Porter and I joined in. When the song ended, I said that her voice was better than mine. "Yes it is," he replied. I believe those were his last spoken words.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Thx for your interesting and moving reactions. 

Maybe this indicates there is hope for all of us here when Alzheimers would hit us, as most of us have invested heavily in our brain, filled with the best interpretations of great music, we should be able to still appreciate it when our world became small. It might be a good idea to prepare a personal playlist or fill a music player, now that you are still able to do so. In order to prevent Andre Rieu from spoiling your old age....


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## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

12 months ago I could name the composer/work of say 90% of CM I heard on the radio but gradually I am finding this difficult, watching a quiz show on TV last night was a question who composed "The sorcerers apprentice" I got it wrong, I am worried. 
Could it be just a case of memory fade? at least I know something is going on.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

My mother had loved classical music since her childhood but in her last ten years when she had severe Alzheimer's we watched as her understanding and enjoyment of music declined and then vanished. Perhaps music helps some patients but not all? 

There may be many things that help some patients. I saw in the newspaper today that some researchers had found that lifelike dolls (small baby size) led to improvements with Alzheimer's patients.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

mrdoc said:


> 12 months ago I could name the composer/work of say 90% of CM I heard on the radio but gradually I am finding this difficult, watching a quiz show on TV last night was a question who composed "The sorcerers apprentice" I got it wrong, I am worried.
> Could it be just a case of memory fade? at least I know something is going on.


Memories do deteriorate as we age but if you are worried it would make a lot of sense to take your worry to a doctor and get checked out.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

mrdoc said:


> 12 months ago I could name the composer/work of say 90% of CM I heard on the radio but gradually I am finding this difficult, watching a quiz show on TV last night was a question who composed "The sorcerers apprentice" I got it wrong, I am worried.
> Could it be just a case of memory fade? at least I know something is going on.


I'm losing nouns, but apparently that's not unusual in the over-60s.

A friend who understands these things put it thus:

"Forgetting where you put your keys is just normal age-related forgetfulness. Don't worry about it. Forgetting what keys are for is more serious. Seek help."

I'm at the stage of "Oh I know this! It's ... wotsit.. by... thingy...y'know, Estonian, big beard. That's it - Lutoslawski!"


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## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm losing nouns, but apparently that's not unusual in the over-60s.
> 
> A friend who understands these things put it thus:
> 
> ...


Yes that's me so all is not lost just normal old age.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

mrdoc said:


> Yes that's me so all is not lost just normal old age.


It's normal even at a much younger age. Or at least I hope so.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm losing nouns, but apparently that's not unusual in the over-60s.
> 
> A friend who understands these things put it thus:
> 
> ...


The NY Times had an Op-Ed on this topic two weeks ago (or was it three weeks ).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/opinion/sunday/age-memory.html?searchResultPosition=1


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm losing nouns, but apparently that's not unusual in the over-60s.
> 
> A friend who understands these things put it thus:
> 
> ...


Here's part of that Op-Ed:

So how do we account for our subjective experience that older adults seem to fumble with words and names? First, there is a generalized cognitive slowing with age - but given a little more time, older adults perform just fine.

Second, older adults have to search through more memories than do younger adults to find the fact or piece of information they're looking for. Your brain becomes crowded with memories and information. It's not that you can't remember - you can - it's just that there is so much more information to sort through. A 2014 study found that this "crowdedness" effect also shows up in computer simulations of human memory systems.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Good diet and Azheimer's is a good match. I would bring walnuts and some organic dark chocolate https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/82-year-old-woman-dementia-1492859

The response to music is so instanteneus, it's probably emotional stimulation. I think, overall probably it would be much more usefull for the brain to learn to play musical instrument. The other way to keep brain in good condition would be meditation. I took up meditation myself, although not for those reasons. I read about it and looked into the scientific reaserch, and the more I find out, the more impressed I become. 
The recent article on brain and meditation https://www.collective-evolution.co...year-old-can-have-the-brain-of-a-25-year-old/


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

jegreenwood said:


> Here's part of that Op-Ed:
> 
> So how do we account for our subjective experience that older adults seem to fumble with words and names? First, there is a generalized cognitive slowing with age - but given a little more time, older adults perform just fine.
> 
> Second, older adults have to search through more memories than do younger adults to find the fact or piece of information they're looking for. Your brain becomes crowded with memories and information. It's not that you can't remember - you can - it's just that there is so much more information to sort through. A 2014 study found that this "crowdedness" effect also shows up in computer simulations of human memory systems.


Oh that's wonderfully reassuring! I have often thought how useful it would be to plug into the cerebral USB port and download a few terabytes of redundant memories.

On a point closer to the OP, there is a lot of evidence that music and song lyrics are one of the last things to go with certain forms of dementia, and with other forms of mental distress. When Malcolm Arnold was at his most broken-down and confined to residential care, apparently he could hardly string a few words together but would sit and play the piano for hours, including requests from other inmates. And we have probably all heard stories of elderly folk in advanced dementia states who suddenly perk p when they hear music from their youth and even start singing.


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## mrdoc (Jan 3, 2020)

jegreenwood said:


> Here's part of that Op-Ed:
> 
> So how do we account for our subjective experience that older adults seem to fumble with words and names? First, there is a generalized cognitive slowing with age - but given a little more time, older adults perform just fine.
> 
> Second, older adults have to search through more memories than do younger adults to find the fact or piece of information they're looking for. Your brain becomes crowded with memories and information. It's not that you can't remember - you can - it's just that there is so much more information to sort through. A 2014 study found that this "crowdedness" effect also shows up in computer simulations of human memory systems.


Its a pity we could not have an external brain that could store some of this seldom used info that we could tap into when needed.


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