# Best troubadour and obscur one??, the messinger??



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Neidhart Von Reutal remain a center piece in this genra and era, discover also Jaure Rudel,Bernatt de Ventadorn: but i woud like to know more beside these key figure of movement and time.

From what i know this phenom occured in germany than in france, spain, i hardly know this era the early 13 century late 12 century, the birth of singner songwwritter, musician poets, the birth of secular music in europe.

:tiphat:

Please name fameous late 12 century troudour and early to mid 13 century troubadour, i would ain't know, worth checking out?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Guiraut Riquier.

I have a big problem with troubadours, I can't follow the old French and I can't find a translation either into modern French or English, the result is that the music starts to sound all the same to me after a while, beautiful but samey, I'm sure if I had the poems I would appreciate it better. There is a book by Zwitten, Rosenberg and Le Vot, but it's too expensive for me.

I hope you know about these

http://www.troubadours-ensemble.com/discographie.html


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Oswald von Wolkenstein is kind of a troubadour, though obviously not French. Poet-composer from the 14th century, so I hope he counts.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I have a big problem with troubadours, I can't follow the old French and I can't find a translation either into modern French or English, the result is that the music starts to sound all the same to me after a while, beautiful but samey, I'm sure if I had the poems I would appreciate it better.


Mandryka, Santa heard your cry and has provided this link which includes dozens of troubadour and trouvère texts along with English translations. Joyeux Noël.

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/modernlanguages/research/french/crusades/texts/occitan/


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks Rick, and happy Christmas to you. To celebrate I just listened to Riquier's _S'ieu ja trobat mon agues_ following the text in English, in all the versions I could find, I just chose it at random, And you know what, there was one which seemed much more interesting than all the rest, on this CD









I thought this was better than his second version with Troubadours Art Ensemble, partly because it's less melodramatic, and I prefer the voice.

So there's something to explore there!

(What on earth is your avatar?)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Tallisman said:


> Oswald von Wolkenstein is kind of a troubadour, ]


Yes he's an example of a composer who meant nothing to me, just boring music, until I bothered to find the text and follow what's going on in the songs, especially the autobiographical songs. There's a recording, by the way, which is very special. You may not like it but it is special. This


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> (What on earth is your avatar?)


It's a caricature of a Komuso ("monks of nothingness") which I've used on shakuhachi forums for years. The Komuso belonged to the Fuke sect of Zen Buddhism and used the shakuhachi, my main instrument, as a religious tool. They were itinerant, wandering the country and begging for alms as they played honkyoku, which are spiritual or meditative pieces mostly composed by the monks themselves. They wore a straw basket (called a "tengai") that covered their head as they played, symbolizing the absence of ego.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I know this is not what you meant, but have you tried Verdi's Troubadour, Il Trovatore? Awesome opera!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I know this is not what you meant, but have you tried Verdi's Troubadour, Il Trovatore? Awesome opera!


I thought the same. I also think Manrico is the best Troubadour.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I enoy very much Marc-Andre Dalbavie's Sextine-cyclus. Troubadour poems arranged to music that works very well with the source material. Sung in old French mostly I think, by the countertenor Jean-Paul Fouchecourt, sounds like a very nice mellow countertenor to me. The cyclus was written for his voice specifically by the way.

Names and works in the cycle:

*Moniot D'Arras (1213-1239)* - Ce Fu en Mai/Ce Fut en Mai 
*Peire D'Alvernhe* - Dejosta'ls Breus/Lorsque les Jours
*Walther Von Der Vogelweide (1170 -1228)* - Under der Linden and der heide/ Sous les Tilleuls, Sur la Bruyere
*Thibaut de Champagne (1201 - 1253)* -Chancon Ferai/Chanson Ferrai 
*Guiraut de Bornelh *- NoPosc Sofrir/Je ne puis

I found an English translation for just the first poem, with others I just wallow in sounds.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

I'm not enough of a purist to go seeking authentic troubadours. To my ancient ears,It would be hard to find a better personification than Il Trovatore where Bjorling is simply superb.

Of the recordings available, Milanov. Bjoring, Warren and Barbieri could hardly be bettered.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Marinera said:


> I enoy very much Marc-Andre Dalbavie's Sextine-cyclus. Troubadour poems arranged to music that works very well with the source material. Sung in old French mostly I think, by the countertenor Jean-Paul Fouchecourt, sounds like a very nice mellow countertenor to me. The cyclus was written for his voice specifically by the way.
> 
> Names and works in the cycle:
> 
> ...


This thing









It's a shame it's not online, as I feel a bit reluctant to take a punt on it!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I just want to draw everyone's attention to this CD, which I think is absolutely fabulous


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