# Vincent d'Indy Orchestral works



## sdtom (Jul 7, 2014)

​I recently received volume six of the Chandos series of his orchestral works. What is the general opinion of d'Indy?


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Old fashined, even when he tried to be modern.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Never found much to interest me in d'Indy. Listening to his Clarinet Trio Op. 20 now. It sounds nice, but...


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## sdtom (Jul 7, 2014)

"Symphony on a French Mountain Air" I've experienced in a live concert.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Sort of like a French Brahms, lots of talent but no real inspiration! (Or transpiration for that), sort of one foot in "light music" and the other without a firm grip! (He was a confirmed Wagnerite I believe) Had he been German, I think that his legacy would have been seen as slightly Kapellmeisterisch... :trp:

/ptr


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

sdtom said:


> I recently received volume six of the Chandos series of his orchestral works. What is the general opinion of d'Indy?


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You made it through 6 volumes?


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## sdtom (Jul 7, 2014)

The releases were over 8 years and I've found some merit. He was a Wagnerite.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Not a top composer for me, no real highlights in his repertoire, but still worthwhile a spin occasionally. I have the same set.


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## sdtom (Jul 7, 2014)

I can still consider "Symphony on a French Mountain Air" one that stands out.


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## notesetter (Mar 31, 2011)

sdtom said:


> I can still consider "Symphony on a French Mountain Air" one that stands out.


One of the most lovable concertante works for piano and orchestra, in my opinion. I've never heard the Munch/Schweitzer/Boston recording, but would guess it's near authoritative.


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## iljajj (Jul 5, 2015)

I rather enjoy d'Indy, but much more in his early than in his later pieces. For me, highlights include the symphonic poems _Istar_, _Wallenstein_ and particularly _Le forêt enchanté_. The oddly Saint-Saënsian_ First Symphony_ ("Italienne") is a very enjoyable work, and the _Symphonie cénévole (sur un chant montagnard français)_ had earned a well-deserved spot as his best-known work. I haven't really studied d'Indy so most of this is conjecture, but my feeling is that in later years he got both more ambitious and less inspired. Post-1900 works like the last two symphonies, the _Diptyque mediterranéen_ and _Jour d'été à la montagne_ lack the melodic appeal, instrumental transparency and the lightness of touch that makes the earlier works so enjoyable.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Vincent d'Indy is the earliest composer within my sphere of interest.
Most of my favorite composers were born during or after the 1860s (Koechlin, e.g.).
Music written prior to the 1870s holds little-to-no interest to me, so d'Indy is (chronologically) the 'starting point' for me on the musical timeline/calendar. Not a favorite composer, d'Indy has nonetheless produced a number of works which I like (such as "Souvenirs", "Jour d'Ete a la Montagne", "Istar", "La Foret Enchantee", "Diptyque Mediterraneen" etc.)


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Er, ho-hum isn't nearly good enough for D'Indy!

He is one of the top French post-romantic composers, including Chausson, Ropartz, Magnard and others. A tremendous harmonist and orchestrator. I particularly like _La forèt enchantée_, Symphony No. 2 in Bb Major, _Istar_, _Diptyque méditerranéen_, and most of all _Poème des rivages_.


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

iljajj said:


> I rather enjoy d'Indy, but much more in his early than in his later pieces. For me, highlights include the symphonic poems _Istar_, _Wallenstein_ and particularly _Le forêt enchanté_. The oddly Saint-Saënsian_ First Symphony_ ("Italienne") is a very enjoyable work, and the _Symphonie cénévole (sur un chant montagnard français)_ had earned a well-deserved spot as his best-known work. I haven't really studied d'Indy so most of this is conjecture, but my feeling is that in later years he got both more ambitious and less inspired. Post-1900 works like the last two symphonies, the _Diptyque mediterranéen_ and _Jour d'été à la montagne_ lack the melodic appeal, instrumental transparency and the lightness of touch that makes the earlier works so enjoyable.


I'm not intimately familiar with d'Indy's music, but I'd tend to agree with this based on what I've heard. The _Symphony on a French Mountain Air_ is by far my favorite work of his, a gorgeously melodic work. (I also enjoy his Clarinet Trio, especially itslovely slow movement.) I listened to his Second Symphony recently and found it overall rather academic and unengaging.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

kyjo said:


> I listened to his Second Symphony recently and found it overall rather academic and unengaging.


I listened to it again yesterday and am still very fond of D'Indy's Second Symphony, also did some reading. I think the fugato for strings near the opening of the last movement is superb. The buildup of energy toward the end, and the great chorale, also. From my reading, one point of importance is that D'Indy's use of the cyclic principle is different than his teacher Franck's. While Franck would bring back themes from earlier movements in the finale, D'Indy would use motives from a theme, then vary them and use them in different ways throughout the work (which may contribute to a sense of academicism). At the same time his technically advanced style of French Wagner-influenced Romanticism shows great variety and originality in the harmonization, texture, and orchestration of passages (that I find appealing). D'Indy's Christianity is woven into his compositions, not as mysticism á la Tournemire or Messiaen, but according to his rather strict ideas related to Scholastic philosophy (Aquinas). He explains this in his _Cours de composition complète_. For a simple example, there is the battle of good and evil in a progression from darkness to light (orchestral works always beginning in the lowest register and ending with a blazing fortissimo in a high-register). I think D'Indy's tendency to rigidity became toxic in his anti-semitic attitudes and writings. That is one reason why his music does not get played or recorded by top orchestras.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

kyjo said:


> The _Symphony on a French Mountain Air_ is by far my favorite work of his, a gorgeously melodic work.


Having listened to D'Indy's _Symphony on a French Mountain Air_ (1887) again, I certainly agree with your endorsement! All three movements are evocative and the piano writing is brilliant. In the later 19th century the concerto was out of favour among many French composers, seen as a shallow and vulgar virtuoso vehicle. So there were a lot of concertante pieces written, e.g. several by Fauré, Chausson's _Poème_, and Chaminade's _Konzertstücke_, not to mention the Symphonic Variations by D'Indy's teacher Cesar Franck (1885). As a symphony with piano solo D'Indy's work was virtuosic but also innovative and musically rich. I especially like the old recording by the Philadelphia Orchestra/Ormandy with Robert Casadessus, himself a noted composer, as soloist. That wonderful large string section is what the work needs!

Also, I hear the _Symphony on a French Mountain Air_ as late romantic, D'Indy's Second Symphony (1904) as post-romantic. It is more questioning and enigmatic, though with an upbeat ending. The composer travelled a long way in 17 years.


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

Roger Knox said:


> I listened to it again yesterday and am still very fond of D'Indy's Second Symphony, also did some reading. I think the fugato for strings near the opening of the last movement is superb. The buildup of energy toward the end, and the great chorale, also. From my reading, one point of importance is that D'Indy's use of the cyclic principle is different than his teacher Franck's. While Franck would bring back themes from earlier movements in the finale, D'Indy would use motives from a theme, then vary them and use them in different ways throughout the work (which may contribute to a sense of academicism). At the same time his technically advanced style of French Wagner-influenced Romanticism shows great variety and originality in the harmonization, texture, and orchestration of passages (that I find appealing). D'Indy's Christianity is woven into his compositions, not as mysticism á la Tournemire or Messiaen, but according to his rather strict ideas related to Scholastic philosophy (Aquinas). He explains this in his _Cours de composition complète_. For a simple example, there is the battle of good and evil in a progression from darkness to light (orchestral works always beginning in the lowest register and ending with a blazing fortissimo in a high-register). I think D'Indy's tendency to rigidity became toxic in his anti-semitic attitudes and writings. That is one reason why his music does not get played or recorded by top orchestras.


Thanks for the detailed response - very interesting. I did very much like the triumphant ending of the symphony, but found much of what comes before a bit too emotionally subdued for my tastes. I'll have to give it another go someday!


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