# Baroque buffs only!



## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Which is the greatest set of Concerti Grossi after Handels Op 6 ?

I love the genre and have countless works in this form, Corelli springs to mind but the best ones I’ve discovered so far seem to be Geminiani’s Op 3.
Any other suggestions?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Charles Avison wrote quite a number of archetypal baroque concerti grossi you might enjoy. I fing them more contrapuntal than Handel, yet quite English sounding. Once upon a time I was such a baroque fan I could tell the contry of origin on first hearing a piece. I doubt I could still do that. Nevertheless Avison seems English.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

I have the Avison Op 6 concertos and they are very fine works but I feel not quite as good as Geminiani’s, but that might well be down to the performances I have, that can make quite a difference.
You’re right there is an Englishness to the sound of these composers, Boyce and Arne are other good examples but the latter as far as I know never wrote Concerti Grossi though he was about when they were popular.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

You guys seem to be stuck in GB.

Albinoni?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

The Corelli op.6 set reached classic status even during the Baroque period. A few sets explicitly in the Corellian model followed, as already mentioned, those by Francesco Gemaniani and Charles Avison. Of these two, I prefer the Avison set. Pietro Antonio Locatelli also wrote a set of twelve, although I have only a few of these on recording, not the whole set, with striking virtuosic passages for the violin.

As for Handel, who was generally more interested in vocal music, decided to compose and publish his own set also named "Opus 6" for commercial reasons much later in 1739 (Handel were professional colleagues with Corelli and Gemaniani). In a concentrated burst of artistic activity, Handel wrote all twelve concerti in one month, each concerto taking a couple to a few days. Together with Bach's _Brandenburg_, Handel's opus 6 represent the peak of Baroque orchestral music. (It is interesting to note that Bach preferred the Vivaldian three movement form of the Italian concerto format, whereas Handel preferred the four movement-multi movement Corellian form).

Georg Mufft also wrote a set of twelve. He was a contemporary of Corelli, both born in 1653. Note that Corelli's set was not necessarily an integrated set composed in one hit (like Handel's) but was likely a collection of bits and pieces (even within a "single" concerto) over a period of time.

Here's a Locatelli piece.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Very good post HC The only composer mentioned so far that I don’t know the works of is Muffat, I’ll have to look into is output. 
The Handel Op 6 concertos are the very pinnacle Concerti Grossi writing, every time I revisit them I’m totally blown away!


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> You guys seem to be stuck in GB.
> 
> Albinoni?


To be fair I don't think Albinoni actually strictly composed a Concerto Grosso, he seemed to favour the 3 movement concerto style like Vivaldi did.
Yes, GB, they seemed to remain more popular here for a lot longer than anywhere else with countless works written by native and immigrant composers.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I'm so glad I found this thread. I was searching "Charlse Avison-talkclassical" and came across it. I just listened to some Avison, and was pleasantly surprised. It does bear some semblance to Geminiani's work, with some "British Robustness."

William Boyce's three concerti grossi have not been mentioned yet, but I'll say here that they are very nice, even though few, and in my opinion rank up there with Handel and Corelli's in quality of music in their own way. .

Anyway, I sort of think of Corelli as being the classic model, and Handel as being the new fangled runner up. But sometimes I change in that and view Handel's work as superior. I want to say that I second Harpsichord Concerto's nomination of Georg Muffat and would like to put in a word for Alessandro Scarlatti. If we're into this ranking business(which is really just personal preference) would rank these two among the best as well. After these come the likes of Geminiani, Avison and also Sammartini(who is interesting to track as a composer, since these were from earlier in his career I believe, and yet he was a transitional figure into classicism). And I'm just getting to know Locatelli, so can't quite comment on him yet. There are also some other names I've come across like Manfredini, but they are still just names to me.
So in short, my preference is:

1) Corelli
2) Handel
3) Boyce
4) Georg Muffat
5) A. Scarlatti
6) Gemiani
7) Avison
8) Sammartini

and its really interchangeable from there. 

But I also have a question: can we consider the L'estro Armonico set by Vivaldi concerti grossi? And another question: do you think I've missed anyone essential that I might want to know more about? I'm sure I have.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Bach's Brandenburgs are concerti grossi are they not? They'd be first on my list.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

A blast from the past, but still a great thread! I have been enjoying music by Willelm De Fesch - Concerti Grossi and Violin Concertos - 





PS - I have joined the Blessed Order of Baroque Buffs, but as yet am only a novice!


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Wiki has a fascinating list which includes Vivaldi but not Bach. It also has some modern examples e.g. by Vaughan Williams


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Taggart said:


> Wiki has a fascinating list which includes Vivaldi but not Bach. It also has some modern examples e.g. by Vaughan Williams


That's quite a list, well worth exploring. For instance compare the Schnittke and Penderecki to the baroque entries, fascinating.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I have now decided that Alessandro Scarlatti's are equal if not greater than Handel's numerous.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

In my quest for fine Concerti Grossi, G. Valentini stands out, I'm seriously thinking of tracking down this CD, here's a wonderful bit of it-


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

:tiphat: Thanks, presto, this is lovely - and I never even heard of him before. So many riches in Baroque Music.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

presto said:


> Which is the greatest set of Concerti Grossi after Handels Op 6 ?
> 
> I love the genre and have countless works in this form, Corelli springs to mind but the best ones I've discovered so far seem to be Geminiani's Op 3.
> Any other suggestions?


"If we can expand the era just a wee bit...Schnittke."

Nevermind that guy. He's a troublemaker. Anyway, you have rightly named the BIG 3. Also, consider Locatelli and Torelli.:tiphat:


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## echo (Aug 15, 2014)

Biber another very under rated guy


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> The Corelli op.6 set reached classic status even during the Baroque period. A few sets explicitly in the Corellian model followed, as already mentioned, those by Francesco Gemaniani and Charles Avison. Of these two, I prefer the Avison set. Pietro Antonio Locatelli also wrote a set of twelve, although I have only a few of these on recording, not the whole set, with striking virtuosic passages for the violin.
> 
> As for Handel, who was generally more interested in vocal music, decided to compose and publish his own set also named "Opus 6" for commercial reasons much later in 1739 (Handel were professional colleagues with Corelli and Gemaniani). In a concentrated burst of artistic activity, Handel wrote all twelve concerti in one month, each concerto taking a couple to a few days. Together with Bach's _Brandenburg_, Handel's opus 6 represent the peak of Baroque orchestral music. (It is interesting to note that Bach preferred the Vivaldian three movement form of the Italian concerto format, whereas Handel preferred the four movement-multi movement Corellian form).
> 
> ...


It's amazing how quickly Handel was able to produce his masterpieces. I think he wrote the entire Messiah in a month.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> It's amazing how quickly Handel was able to produce his masterpieces. I think he wrote the entire Messiah in a month.


White hot productivity due to his being in the fever of inspiration.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Georg Muffat's 12 concerti gross are marvelously substantial, a fusion of many influences, these are not trifling, light pieces. There is a French elegance to them, with a Germanic substance, in the fundamentally Italian form of concerto grosso. I have found all 12 of his a delight to listen to.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2014)

Handel is the greatest. Corelli, next.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

It would appear that Locatelli wrote his own "Christmas Concerto" like Corelli's in G minor, only Locatelli's is in F minor. I am very impressed with it. Its on this CD:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

clavichorder said:


> It would appear that Locatelli wrote his own "Christmas Concerto" like Corelli's in G minor, only Locatelli's is in F minor. I am very impressed with it. Its on this CD:
> 
> View attachment 55661


That looks very tempting. I shall check it out. (Locatelli wrote a set of twelve concerti grossi, "the art of the violin" or something like that, with just about the most virtuosic passages possible for the instrument in a concerto setting.)


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