# Favorite "Unknown" Composers



## JTech82

List some of your favorite "unknown" classical composers or composers that you feel have still not got their due.

Here are mine:

Arnold Bax
William Walton
Edmund Rubbra
Arnold Malcolm
Samuel Barber (still VERY underrated, he did more than "Adagio For Strings" people!)
Vincent d'Indy
Zoltan Kodaly
Ture Rangstrom
Rues Langgaard (new symphonies box set coming out in March...I'm happy)
Darius Milhaud
Frederick Delius
Granville Bantock
Charles Stanford
Bohuslav Martinu
Frank Bridge

Of course, there are so many more. What are some of yours?


----------



## Yagan Kiely

Barber is not unkown (far from it); the bulk of his music is however, and he is as you said underrated.


----------



## David C Coleman

Franz Schmidt - Interesting composer, Richard Strauss contemporary, absorbed musical ideas from Bruckner, R. Strauss and Mahler.

Also a host of lesser known 18th century composers wrote attrractive stuff.

Dittersdorf,
William Boyce,
Charles Avison,
Thomas Arne,
CPE and JC Bach,


----------



## Tapkaara

Many of the composers on Jtech's list are not necessarily "unknown," I'd say. At least not in classical circles. I've heard of most of them, and have actually heard at least half of them. But alas, they would certainly be unknown to the public at large...hell, most people probably only know of Mozart and Beethoven.

Ture Rangstrom is one whose music I have. Swedish, thought of as "radical" during his time, though his music is actually quite conservative, especially when compared to a Stravinsky or Schonberg. I enjoy his music.

I have many favorite "unknowns," perhaps too many to list here. Here are two:

I'd throw in on my list Wojciech Kilar from Poland and Jon Leifs of Iceland. Kilar started out as a modernist in the tradition on Penderecki and Gorecki, but he "softened" as he got older and his idiom drifted towards a certain minimalism. He's probably best known for his score to Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula movie of 1992.

Leifs composed from the 1920s till his death in the 1960s. His music is very hard to describe...and it is hard to place into a specific style. It lies somewhere in late-Romanticism and harsh modernism. It combines the ancient with the modern in a way that can be quite baffling to many, I'd suspect. He has a penchant for describing the wonders of Icelandic natural phenomena such as geysirs and waterfalls in his music, making use of shattering percussion effects (rocks, wooden stumps, ship chains, anvils...and guns [are guns percussion? woodwind?]). One of his most famous works is Hekla, describing a volacano of the same name. Leifs saw it erupt in the 1940s, and it obviously made an impression on him. Often described as the loudest classical work ever written, it employs a bizarre percussion battery, as described above. While the music is short on melody, it has ample mood and character, and is really more of one big sound effect. By no means easy on the ears, it's at least interesting and shocking...and if you hate your neighbors, they should hear you blast this.


----------



## Taneyev

Eduard Franck
Richard Franck
Ottar Taktakishvilii
Alf Hurum
Leo Weiner
Paul Jouon
Karol Lipinski
Joan Manen
Arkady Filipenko
Josef Foerster
Zdenek Fibich
Igor Markevich
Robert Casadesus
Evgeni Svetlanov


----------



## jhar26

Not all of them are exactly unknown, but they probably aren't part of everyone's record collection here either. Not that I have a huge number of recordings myself of any of these - for some I have only one, but what I have I like enough to put them on my list.

Martin Y Soler
Mondonville
Ginastera
Cimarosa
Amy Beach
Dittersdorf
Zandonai
Taneyev
Menotti (maybe doesn't qualify since he's pretty famous, but he's underrated IMO)
Balakirev
Lili Boulanger (my knowledge of her music is very limited, but the very few pieces I've heard from her I like enough to make we want to get to known her work a little better)


----------



## Lang

Whether or not a composer is unknown or merely underestimated, depends very much on what country you happen to be in.

Havergal Brian, for example, is not unknown in the UK, but is pretty much everywhere else.
Minna Keale is another British composer of stature, not widely known abroad.
Also, not forgetting Andrej Panufnik, a Polish composer who settled in England. Despite writing some wonderful works, in an inimitable style, such as Autumn Music, the Concerto Festivo and many others, he has slid into obscurity after his death.

Another composer who is, in my opinion, the most outrageously underestimated of all, is Florent Schmitt, whose wonderful setting of Psalm 47, with its incandescent soprano solo, is a masterpiece.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JTech82 said:


> Arnold Malcolm


You know Arnold was his last name, don't you?

I agree with Tapkaara, in that it can't be said Walton, Kodaly, Martinu, Delius and Arnold (just not to name all your list) are obscure. That label may very well fit Siegfried Langgaard, though.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

I have a recording of Manen himself, but can't get recordings of _his _works.
I can say I enjoy the works of Jesús de Monasterio, but not enough to say he is a "favorite composer".



> Arnold Bax
> William Walton
> Edmund Rubbra
> Arnold Malcolm
> Frederick Delius
> Granville Bantock
> Charles Stanford
> Frank Bridge


Eight out of fifteen on your list are UK composers. I believe John Foulds out-obscures all of them. Ever heard his string quartets?


----------



## Taneyev

Manen's concierto español by Kaplan,plus Lalo. Get it. Beautiful piece.


----------



## Edward Elgar

Gideon Klein was a fantastic composer who is sadly "unknown" because he was killed in his early 20s by the Nazis and therefore unable to reach his full potential. It makes me so mad to think that those ignorant people took the life of a genius, as they did with many jewish interlectuals. Had he been allowed to live I think he would have been a great composer. Listen to some of these pieces to get an idea of his soundworld.


----------



## World Violist

Edmund Rubbra remains my favorite unknown composer. I don't know many of the others' music, but I am looking at a box (from BIS, no less!) of the symphonies of Vagn Holmboe--he wrote 13 symphonies!


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

Edward Elgar said:


> It makes me so mad to think that those ignorant people took the life of a genius, as they did with many jewish interlectuals.


Not only jews. Remember what happened to Karlrobert Kreiten.



> [Karlrobert Kreiten] was seen by Wilhelm Furtwängler and others as one of the most talented young pianists in Germany. Born in Bonn, his German mother was the classical singer Emmy Kreiten, nee Liebergesell, who sang under the stage name Emmy Kreiten-Barido. His Dutch father Theo Kreiten, was a composer, concert pianist, and writer. The Kreiten family originated in the area of the Lower Rhineland, along the current Dutch-German border.
> 
> He made his debut at the age of eleven with Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's Piano Concerto in A major in a live broadcast. He was educated in Vienna by Claudio Arrau.
> 
> Kreiten was reported to the Gestapo by Nazi neighbor Ellen Ott-Monecke about making negative remarks about Adolf Hitler and the war effort. He was indicted at the Volksgerichtshof, with Roland Freisler presiding, and condemned to death. Friends and family frantically tried to save his life, but to no avail. The family only accidentally learned that Karlrobert had been executed by hanging, with 185 other inmates, at Plötzensee prison.


His 1934 recording of Brahms' Paganini variations shows the world really missed a huge talent.


----------



## Tapkaara

Lang said:


> Whether or not a composer is unknown or merely underestimated, depends very much on what country you happen to be in.
> 
> Havergal Brian, for example, is not unknown in the UK, but is pretty much everywhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, I have two Brian CDs. Long-winded composer to be sure, but actually a very interesting musical mind...a mad genius, perhaps! He sort of sounds like Sibelius on acid, to me. But definitely worth exploring. I have a recodingof his 1st symphony as well as the 4th, the Siegeslied.
> 
> Rued Langgegard is another composer I am somewhat acquainted with. I have his 1st symphony and it's quite good too. I should listen to it again.
Click to expand...


----------



## JoeGreen

Nikolai Medtner (1880 - 1950)
is one of the few composers who's main output was for the piano and that I like.


----------



## JTech82

Yagan Kiely said:


> Barber is not unkown (far from it); the bulk of his music is however, and he is as you said underrated.


Like I said, his music is unknown, so therefore, that's what makes him underrated. Have you heard his "Canzonetta for oboe and strings?" Beautiful piece of music. Written not long before he passed away. It was his last piece of music that he wrote.


----------



## Rondo

I have an work entitled _Fire Dreams,_ written by Scott Steidl (I can't find any bio of the guy--how's that for "unknown"). Great music!


----------



## Herzeleide

Franz Schimdt. One of the great unrecognised geniuses.


----------



## Tapkaara

Sounds like we have have any number of composers whose talent...dare I say genius...is worthy of our knowing and educated praise, so I ask this questions to those in this thread:

If these composers are so great, WHY are they unknown?

I think a lot of it has to do with radio/concert programming.

I listen to a lot of classical radio online, and very rarely do I hear something that is quite far removed from the standard repertoire. Am i the only one who gets sick of hearing Mozart, Vivaldi, a Beethoven piano work, a Bach orchestral suite, etc. OVER and OVER again? Not bashing these guys, just saying, I wish radio stations recognized the fact that TRUE lovers of classical can cope with not being bombarded by the standard repertoire. Quite the opposite...real classical-o-philes have a undying hunger for exploration. Feed us!

And then, if you don't live in a big city like LA, New York, London, etc., I think the fare on live concert programs also tends to be too safe. I live in San Diego, and we have a great local orchestra, but the repertoire here tends to be very standard and safe, with little to no new/"unknown" music. Drive 2 hours north (with no traffic) to LA, and the LA Phil is surely a little more cutting edge.

What you you guys think?


----------



## Yagan Kiely

> Like I said, his music is unknown, so therefore, that's what makes him underrated. Have you heard his "Canzonetta for oboe and strings?" Beautiful piece of music. Written not long before he passed away. It was his last piece of music that he wrote.


I've heard a great deal of his music, sadly not that. I expect it would be beautiful. He is certainly underrated. But he still isn't unknown, just for that one piece of music that he wrote.


----------



## JTech82

Yagan Kiely said:


> I've heard a great deal of his music, sadly not that. I expect it would be beautiful. He is certainly underrated. But he still isn't unknown, just for that one piece of music that he wrote.


So with your logic, when you first got into classical music you knew who Samuel Barber was?

What I'm saying here is Barber is "unknown" in the respect that many people don't know his works.


----------



## JTech82

Tapkaara said:


> Sounds like we have have any number of composers whose talent...dare I say genius...is worthy of our knowing and educated praise, so I ask this questions to those in this thread:
> 
> If these composers are so great, WHY are they unknown?
> 
> I think a lot of it has to do with radio/concert programming.
> 
> I listen to a lot of classical radio online, and very rarely do I hear something that is quite far removed from the standard repertoire. Am i the only one who gets sick of hearing Mozart, Vivaldi, a Beethoven piano work, a Bach orchestral suite, etc. OVER and OVER again? Not bashing these guys, just saying, I wish radio stations recognized the fact that TRUE lovers of classical can cope with not being bombarded by the standard repertoire. Quite the opposite...real classical-o-philes have a undying hunger for exploration. Feed us!
> 
> And then, if you don't live in a big city like LA, New York, London, etc., I think the fare on live concert programs also tends to be too safe. I live in San Diego, and we have a great local orchestra, but the repertoire here tends to be very standard and safe, with little to no new/"unknown" music. Drive 2 hours north (with no traffic) to LA, and the LA Phil is surely a little more cutting edge.
> 
> What you you guys think?


I couldn't agree more. I LOATHE programmatic formats like radio, because they never play what the true classical fans want to hear.

That's why I DON'T listen to them, because they don't know. I can hit shuffle on my mp3 player and it will come up with more interesting programming than a radio station. One reason being is that radio stations don't have what I have to begin with, so if you don't have a good source to begin with, then you're going fail with whatever programming you choose to present to the public.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JTech82 said:


> One reason being is that radio stations don't have what I have to begin with, so if you don't have a good source to begin with, then you're going fail with whatever programming you choose to present to the public.


Well, I do have music _you don't have_ and I still listen to the radio. So I suppose yours is not a valid conclusion.


----------



## Yagan Kiely

> So with your logic, when you first got into classical music you knew who Samuel Barber was?


I don't know many people who don't know quote: 'Barber's Adagio'. He is underrated and most of his pieces are unknown, but because of that one piece he isn't unknown.


----------



## shsherm

I think instead of calling these composers unknown a better term would be "lesser known". I have heard music of many of the people on the preceding lists. I mentioned a Russian composer, Mikhail Kollontay, on a previous post and not many people had heard of him or his impossible to play piano music which I heard in Dallas, TX played by Elena Kuschnerova for whom this music was written. Several people who attended the performance that night were piano teachers who had come from Russia and trained in conservatories there.


----------



## Sid James

Tapkaara said:


> Lang said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not a composer is unknown or merely underestimated, depends very much on what country you happen to be in.
> 
> Havergal Brian, for example, is not unknown in the UK, but is pretty much everywhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that some composers are known in individual countries, at least to those interested in classical music, but not internationally. There are plenty of examples of this, including where I live in Australia. Who amongst you, who do not live here, have heard of Peter Sculthorpe, Richard Mills, Graham Koehne, Brett Deane or Carl Vine?
> 
> I also agree with the statements above that classical radio stations tend to leave people in the comfort zone of the fairly standard repertoire. Whenever I turn the radio on to one of those stations, I could either recognise the composer or at least the country/era. There are a few programs out there devoted to modern or contemporary classical music, but far less than the programs that offer standard classical fare. There are actually some good ambient/experimental programs on one of the classical stations here in Sydney, but that is on after midnight. So I think programers can afford to be at least a little more adventurous than they are. It would make it more interesting for not only seasoned listeners, but also those who are beginning to familiarize themselves with the repertoire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Tapkaara

I actually know of Sculthorpe, and I have his Naxos disc. Not bad stuff at all. Although he is a modern-day composer, his idiom is tonal and accessible. He uses a lot of cool percussion and even didgeridoos.

A while back he was the featured guest on classical KUSC, LA's classical station and the interview was interesting. They played a piece by him (the name of it I have forgotten), but it was awesome. I need to track it down...it was very good.


----------



## JTech82

Yagan Kiely said:


> I don't know many people who don't know quote: 'Barber's Adagio'. He is underrated and most of his pieces are unknown, but because of that one piece he isn't unknown.


Perhaps, Yagan, in your world of make-believe Barber is well known, but the reality is, he isn't.

Go talk to anyone who are versed in classical music and even they can't name that many pieces by him. I'm not talking about over the internet either. Go walk up to somebody in a music store that is supposedly labeled the "classical guy" and talk to them. Mention Barber and you will surprised by how little they know.

It's easy to talk somebody on the internet about Barber, because how do I not they just go to Wikipedia and copy and paste? I don't know and neither does anyone else. The real world affords us classical fans the opportunity to question each other.

Walk up to anyone on the street, they don't know who Barber is. My point? He's not well known enough by people for them to formulate definite answers like "I don't like him. He's a little too out there for me." I'm afraid the only people who know more than Adagio for Strings are the people that are deep into classical and possess a great wealth of knowledge for this music.

There's much more to classical than Brahms, Beethoven, and Mozart, but I'm afraid most casual listeners don't venture out into the unknown that much.


----------



## al2henry

> I listen to a lot of classical radio online, and very rarely do I hear something that is quite far removed from the standard repertoire. Am i the only one who gets sick of hearing Mozart, Vivaldi, a Beethoven piano work, a Bach orchestral suite, etc. OVER and OVER again? Not bashing these guys, just saying, I wish radio stations recognized the fact that TRUE lovers of classical can cope with not being bombarded by the standard repertoire. Quite the opposite...real classical-o-philes have a undying hunger for exploration. Feed us!


I agree wholeheartedly - so much air-time devoted to the top 200 pieces from the top 40 composers. That is why I found Sirius XM's Symphony Hall channel so refreshing. At least 50% of the time I end up breaking down and looking at the text read-out. I either discover I was wrong in my guess based on stylistic cues or that the selection is by someone I have never heard of.

Food indeed!


----------



## Weston

We must be fairly lucky in Nashville. The local classical station seems to play quite a bit of lesser known composers - or did at least when they were part of the library. I stopped listening largely because of the onset of the internet as a means of exploring new music.

My favorite lesser knowns, roughly in chronological order:

*J. H. Schein* - The Banchetto musicale pieces are awesome.
*Domenico Scarlatti *- must have composed in a complete vacuum. He is instantly recognizable and distinct from all other baroque composers.
*Jean-Philippe Rameau *- baroque music with sound effects - and he was one of the earliest to write about the theory of the 24 tone scale.
*Vincent d'Indy *- as mentioned above wrote some dandy pieces indeed.
*Joseph Jongen* - in a similar vein as d'Indy
*Max Reger *- left a solid body of work, mostly fugues and variations for piano.
*Albert Roussel* - mystical post impressionist
*Herbert Howells *- wrote some terrific piano concertos as well as chamber music along the lines of Ralph Vaughan-Williams.
*Bernard Hermann* - surely one of the greatest 20th century composers.
*William Grant Still *- successfully combines blues or jazz elements with classical where I believe Shostakovich, Stravinsky, and Milhaud fell short.
*Tobias Picker *- if only for _The Encantadas (for narrator and orchestra)_

Okay, I'll stop there. Strangely I skipped over the classical and much of the romantic eras. I like those periods. I just can't think of any lesser known composers that stick in my mind from them.


----------



## JTech82

al2henry said:


> I agree wholeheartedly - so much air-time devoted to the top 200 pieces from the top 40 composers. That is why I found Sirius XM's Symphony Hall channel so refreshing. At least 50% of the time I end up breaking down and looking at the text read-out. I either discover I was wrong in my guess based on stylistic cues or that the selection is by someone I have never heard of.
> 
> Food indeed!


Sirius is on their way out. The reason? Bad management, outrageous fees, and a staff that doesn't care about the music.

They also take stations off without letting anyone know. Like for example "Planet Jazz" and "Pure Jazz," which were the only reasons I subscribed in the first place. It certainly wasn't for their "talk" radio.

The classical stations were laughable at best. They didn't really play anything that I wanted or didn't have already. Pretty lame company, but their times about up. They've been loosing a lot of money, so it's only a matter of time before they pull the plug and quite frankly it serves them right.


----------



## LvB

Apropos the argument about Barber-- I suppose that, strictly speaking, _no_ composer who is "unknown" could be listed, for the simple reason that nobody would know him/her to list them! (  )

But.... some names I haven't seen yet:
Miroslav Raichl
Dmitri Cuclin
Vaclav Dobias
Stjepan Sulek
Svatopluk Havelka

These are all composers from behind the Iron Curtain whose music has, imo quite undeservedly, disappeared virtually completely. Dobias's Symphony #2 is still around, as is Sulek's 'Vox Gabrieli' Sonata for Trombone, but virtually nothing else. Each of these people wrote symphonies which are well worth hearing, and at least a couple of those symphonies (Dobias 2; Sulek 6) are truly major works.


----------



## JoeGreen

How about some Mexican Composers that I'm sure many aren't familiar with:

*Carlos Chavez*






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Chávez

*Silvestre Reveultas*






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Revueltas

*Manuel Ponce*






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Ponce_(composer)

*Arturo Marquez*






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturo_Márquez

*Conlon Nancarrow* (Lived in Mexico for most of his life and produced his best works there)






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlon_Nancarrow

*Juventino Rosas* ( the Mexican Johann Strauss)






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventino_Rosas


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

LvB said:


> Miroslav Raichl
> Dmitri Cuclin
> Vaclav Dobias
> Stjepan Sulek
> Svatopluk Havelka


These I never heard of.


----------



## Tapkaara

Joe mentioned Revueltas. I love Revueltas. Great composer, very original, I think. His "Night of the Maya" is awesome, especially the percussion-rich final movement. His tone poem Sensamaya is also famous...for those who know of this composer.


----------



## Elgarian

Tricky, this - deciding on who is 'unknown'. My list goes like this:

*Hubert Parry* (OK, not unknown, I know - but he's known predominantly for his choral stuff. His _symphonies_ are virtually never played, and yet, when you hear them, not only are they a delight in themselves (particularly 2, 3, and 4), but also Elgar's music acquires a fascinating historical context. His _Symphonic Variations_ is terrific, too.

*Amy Beach*. Her Gaelic Symphony is smashing.

*Couperin, Mondonville, Delalande* - all French Baroque composers that I'd never encountered until recently - and to that list I'll add the Italian *Durante*. Sheer delight, some of their stuff, crammed to bursting with great tunes and lovely passages.

I've tried hard with Bantock, but so far he hasn't really clicked for me.


----------



## Rondo

I just remembered another _far_ lesser known composer of a work (_Long March Symphony_) which has gathered quite a bit of dust in my music collection, *Shande Ding*. He is a Chinese composer (1911-1995). A brief biography of him, along with some of his works (the above mentioned included), can be found on the Naxos website.


----------



## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> *Amy Beach*. Her Gaelic Symphony is smashing.


I've heard of Amy Beach, but I haven't heard her music. I heard her Gaelic Symphony as you mentioned is really good. I've read quite a lot of reviews of her music.


----------



## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> I've heard of Amy Beach, but I haven't heard her music. I heard her Gaelic Symphony as you mentioned is really good. I've read quite a lot of reviews of her music.


The good news is that it won't cost you much to try it. See here  (US); or here (UK)


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JTech82 said:


> I've heard of Amy Beach, but I haven't heard her music. I heard her Gaelic Symphony as you mentioned is really good. I've read quite a lot of reviews of her music.


I used to like her piano concerto.


----------



## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> The good news is that it won't cost you much to try it. See here  (US); or here (UK)


Thanks, Elgarian. I've actually been looking at that one for awhile and you're right that is a very cheap buy.

Do you own this one? Does this Schermerhorn do a good job conducting? Apparently, Neeme Jarvi did a version of this symphony too, but I don't want to buy Barber's "School For Scandal" again.


----------



## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> The good news is that it won't cost you much to try it. See here  (US); or here (UK)


I have that Amy Beach disc too. She's good.


----------



## Saturnus

*Jan Dismas Zelenka* - Highly counterpointal baroque composer mainly active in northern Germany but really characteristic and totally different from Bach. He wasn't lucky getting jobs as a composer, mainly worked as a bass player in the Dresden Orchestra (Rameau described it as the best orchestra in Europe), so his ouvre is small by baroque-standards, but all his works are really high in quality and thought out. - I recommend Trio sonatas nos. 2, 5 & 6, Concerto for orchestra, Litaniae Lauretanae, Missa dei Filii, _Invitorium_ from Officium Defunctorum

*Johann Georg Pisendel* - A great violin virtuoso from the baroque era, he was a concertmaster of the Dresden Orchestra and didn't have much time to compose, but what he composed is really good. - I recommend Violin Sonata in D & Sonata for Orchestra in c

*Jón Leifs* - Icelandic composer who wrote a lot of powerful music inspired by the powerful element of Iceland's nature. He studied composition and conducting in Leibzig and held Beethoven in high regard so his music, characterized by loud and unorthodox percussion and highest and lowest notes in the orchestra's range, sounds like a more pastoral Varése. I recommend - Hekla, Variations on a theme by Beethoven, Organ Concerto, Dettifoss & String Quartets.

*Matyas Seiber * - The only piece I know by this composer (Improvization for oboe & piano) is the most beautiful and expressive 12 tone music I've heard.

*Antonio Rosetti* - Late classical era composer active in Austria. Should be interesting for all Haydn-fans.


----------



## Tapkaara

I love Leifs, and I mentioned him earlier in this thread. Glad to see you are also familiar with him.


----------



## JTech82

Tapkaara said:


> I love Leifs, and I mentioned him earlier in this thread. Glad to see you are also familiar with him.


I like Leifs' Saga Symphony. That's a great piece of music.


----------



## Tapkaara

The Saga Symphony is wild...in fact I revisted it a few days ago. I love the sound of the lurs (Viking brass instrument) in the final movement.


----------



## al2henry

Jtech82:



> Sirius is on their way out. The reason? Bad management, outrageous fees, and a staff that doesn't care about the music.


Chapter 11 doesn't necessarily mean "goodbye" - some bargain hunter will scoop the assets and service will continue. My guess is the three classical channels are pretty cheap to run. At least I hope so - having been a revolted aural witness of the total dumbing of the Cdn Broadcasting Corporation's "Radio 2"

I think I notice that many of the unknown's (both pieces, composers and performers) come from the Naxos catalogue. Sirius may not have a super business model (Millions $ to "Shock Jocks") but Klaus Heymann sure does - find them (Naxos) on Last.fm too!

Anyway, with only extremely limited broadband in my rural area, I remain an enthusiastic supporter of Channel 80 "Symphony Hall" - or keep buying CD's which I can't afford!


----------



## Weston

JTech82 said:


> Does this Schermerhorn do a good job conducting?


I cannot compare this recording to others since it is the only one I've heard of her symphony and piano concerto. It has not reached out and grabbed me like some masterpieces, but might do so if I gave it more focus.

I find Schermerhorn sounds solid on record - though sadly I thought a little less so live. He does a fine job on record with the Beethoven _Missa Solemnis_ and with some Sibelius pieces that I have heard, but that is with a different orchestra, the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra.


----------



## Elgarian

Weston said:


> I cannot compare this recording to others since it is the only one I've heard of her symphony and piano concerto. It has not reached out and grabbed me like some masterpieces, but might do so if I gave it more focus.


That's my situation too - this is the only version I've heard. I wouldn't want to stake out too much of a claim for the Gaelic Symphony, except to observe the absurdity of its obscurity, as with Parry's symphonies. The world isn't shaken to its roots by them, but it's a better place for their existence.


----------



## Tapkaara

I have the Missa Solemnis is question and Sibelius recordings by Schermerhorn. Sounds good to me! A good conductor.


----------



## Weston

Tapkaara said:


> I have the Missa Solemnis is question and Sibelius recordings by Schermerhorn. Sounds good to me! A good conductor.


Sadly he passed away a couple of years ago. I guess we all use the present tense in our reviews because that's what we're supposed to do when discussing books, movies, music, etc.

Back on topic - another semi-known composer, *Alan Hovhaness *with his beautiful sonorities. I can't remember if he had been mentioned above. He wrote about six thousand symphonies or a maybe bit less.


----------



## JoeGreen

Tapkaara said:


> Joe mentioned Revueltas. I love Revueltas. Great composer, very original, I think. His "Night of the Maya" is awesome, especially the percussion-rich final movement. His tone poem Sensamaya is also famous...for those who know of this composer.


"Night of the Maya" was actually what I was hoping to link but the only version on *youtube *was made using Sibelius ( notation software, not composer! ), still Sensemaya is good too.

And yeah, I can't believe I didn't mention *Alan Hovhaness*, I have several of recordings of his music. I doubt he wrote six thousand symphonies! I know he wrote a lot but not that much.


----------



## JTech82

According to Wikipedia, Hovhaness wrote 67 symphonies.


----------



## JoeGreen

So Weston was off by about two zeros.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JoeGreen said:


> "Night of the Maya" was actually what I was hoping to link but the only version on *youtube *was made using Sibelius ( notation software, not composer! ), still Sensemaya is good too.


I found this



> http://rapidshare.com/files/154118639/Mayas.rar
> 
> Orquesta Sinfónica de Xalapa
> Dir. Eduardo Mata
> 
> 1. Homenaje a Federico Garcia Lorca
> 2. Sensemaya
> 3. Ocho X Radio
> 4. Toccata
> 5. Alcancias: Allegro
> 6. Alcancias: Andantino
> 7. Alcancias: Allegro vivo
> 8. Planos
> 9. La Noche de los Mayas: I. La noche de los Mayas
> 10. La Noche de los Mayas: II. La noche de Jaranas
> 11. La Noche de los Mayas: III. La noche de Yucatán
> 12. La Noche de los Mayas: IV. La noche de encantamiento


----------



## Lang

Ooh, one I forgot. Xavier Montsalvatge, who has written some lovely songs - not familiar with the rest of his works.


----------



## JTech82

I also like Sir Charles Villiers Stanford a lot too. Another very underrated composer. He composed some beautiful melodies. His symphonies and rhapsodies are amazing.

I'm not sure if he's been mentioned yet or not, but Herbert Howells was also a great composer.


----------



## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> I also like Sir Charles Villiers Stanford a lot too. Another very underrated composer. He composed some beautiful melodies. His symphonies and rhapsodies are amazing.


Yes, I'd happily include him in my list, too; he doesn't quite light so many sparks for me as Parry does, but as with Parry, his orchestral music surely deserves more exposure than it gets. His Irish Rhapsodies are fine things, I think.


----------



## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> Yes, I'd happily include him in my list, too; he doesn't quite light so many sparks for me as Parry does, but as with Parry, his orchestral music surely deserves more exposure than it gets. His Irish Rhapsodies are fine things, I think.


I love his symphonies, but you are right his Irish Rhapsodies are marvels of beauty. I ordered a few days ago the Lloyd-Jones symphony cycle on Naxos and I also ordered the Chandos album with the six Irish Rhapsodies on them with Vernon Handley.

I also like Moeran a lot too. His Symphony in G minor is a thing of beauty.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JTech82 said:


> I also like Moeran a lot too. His Symphony in G minor is a thing of beauty.


As well as his chamber music. I like his shor e minor violin sonata.

On Stanford, I realized (for some reason) I don't have his Concert Variations "Down Among the Dead Men" anymore... A cd I should get again.


----------



## JTech82

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> As well as his chamber music. I like his shor e minor violin sonata.
> 
> On Stanford, I realized (for some reason) I don't have his Concert Variations "Down Among the Dead Men" anymore... A cd I should get again.


Yes, "Down Among The Dead Men: Concert Variations" is a great piece! I love it!

Be sure to buy the 2-disc release with "Down Among..." paired with his six "Irish Rhapsodies" and "Piano Concerto, No. 2" with Vernon Handley and the Ulster Orchestra on Chandos.


----------



## Elgarian

JTech82 said:


> Be sure to buy the 2-disc release with "Down Among..." paired with his six "Irish Rhapsodies" and "Piano Concerto, No. 2" with Vernon Handley and the Ulster Orchestra on Chandos.


Yes, this is the set to have, alright (another thing to thank Vernon Handley for).


----------



## JTech82

Elgarian said:


> Yes, this is the set to have, alright (another thing to thank Vernon Handley for).


It really is a shame about Hickox and Handley. Hickox was way too young to go. He was really just getting his "feet wet" so to speak.

Handley will be missed his readings are all classics in their own right.


----------



## JTech82

Another composer, though not "unknown" in the tradition sense of the word, is Ferde Grofé. What a great composer. "Grand Canyon Suite," "Mississippi Suite," "Death Valley Suite," etc are great.


----------



## JTech82

I also LOVE Hovhaness. Wonderful composer. One of my personal favorites along with Sibelius, Ravel, and Vaughan Williams.


----------



## bassClef

Vranicky, a Czech composer not well known outside his home land. Fibich is another. I've only become familiar with their music since coming to live here in Czech Republic.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

jezbo said:


> Vranicky, a Czech composer not well known outside his home land.


I got to know the man through his string quartets. Would you recommend any particular work of his production?


----------



## bassClef

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> I got to know the man through his string quartets. Would you recommend any particular work of his production?


All his symphonies are wonderful. This is well worth a purchase.


----------



## KScott

Nice assortment of composers, folks. Here are some unknowns that have not been mentioned:

*Norbert Burgmueller *- the brother of the other Burgmueller who wrote all those piano studies and the ballet La Peri. Norbert was lauded by Schumann, but died at the age of 26 from epilepsy, I believe. His two symphonies are amazing works, especially the first, which echoes not only the mature Schumann, but also Brahms. He lived from 1810 to 1836.

*Johann Rufinatscha *- another unknown composer who was born in the Tyrol section of Austria. A friend of Brahms, he stopped composing at the height of his powers around 1870. Of his six symphonies, only four exist, and all have been recorded by the Capella Istropolitana for a label fostered by the Tyrol Land Museum in Innsbruck, which houses a treasure trove of works by Tyrolean composers that they are resurrecting. The fifth and sixth symphonies are epic works of sheer beauty, while I am told his piano concerto is one of the finest ever composed.

I was exposed to these two composers by a musicologist friend of mine, and I have conducted the Burgmueller first in a reading in Philadelphia several years ago, and plan to do the Rufinatscha fifth sometime this summer.

*Ulysses Kay *- Until his passing in 1995, Kay was one of the most frequently performed African-American concert composers, conducted by the likes of Bernstein, Stokowski, Ormandy, Szell, Mehta and many others. A student of Hindemith's, Kay's early music is very much in the populist Americana-cum-neoclassical vein. Yet starting around 1950, his music becomes more chromatic and dense, and by the late 1960s, incorporates serial and improvisatory elements in his scores without sacrificing his classically sound structure. His music is in dire need of a revival, and there is a recording of four of his works on Albany Records conducted by... (ok, shame on me!)

*Healy Willan *- Best known for his organ music, but he has a couple of symphonies that are really worth investigating, not to mention a Requiem that should be done more often.

*Matthjis Vermeulen *- Considered the Dutch equivalent of Charles Ives, his seven symphonies broke new ground in many ways, most particular the second symphony of 1919, which not only takes up where Stravinsky's Rite left off, but also invokes sounds that one would hear from Stan Kenton, John Coltrane and Sun Ra! Mengelberg did not like his music, and it is still rarely performed in his native country. I can also add to this list other Dutch composers such as Wilhelm Pipjer, Lex van Dierden and Henk Badings.

*Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji *- More of a cult fave, he is still unknown to the general public, but then, how much of those who want their classical light want to sit through Sorabji's monumental Opus Clavicembalisticum, a solo piano work that takes five hours to perform, or his allegedly six-hour second organ symphony, or the massive _Missa Alta Sinfonica_, a five-hour work that makes Bach's B minor Mass look like a _Missa Brevis_, and whose forces rival those of Mahler's eighth, Schoenberg's _Gurre-Lieder _and Brian's Gothic?

The best introduction to this composer are his songs, the longest of which lasts seven minutes! His French settings can stand alongside the songs of Debussy, Hahn, Duparc and Poulenc.

Otherwise...I think many people covered all the composers here. If I can think of some more...I'll post!


----------



## handlebar

I would include:

Moeran,Bax,Creston,Diamond,Rorem,Wordsworth,Wallace,Dyson,Mennin,Thompson,R.Thomson,Foss,Sessions and Amy Beach. Just a few.

Jim


----------



## JoeGreen

I haven't seen his name on this forum so here it is...

*Nikita Koshkin (b.1956)* 
He's a classical guitarist and composer, and as far as I can tell he has only composed for solo guitar or guitar ensembles. But it is still very good music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Koshkin


----------



## Bach

3 composers hu r unknown in england were i live r beethovn, mozart and trykovsky - nun of my friends hav even herd of them!!!!!


----------



## JoeGreen

how about this one...

*Gyorgy Kurtag*(b.1926)

His *Jatekoks* I recommend.

Oh and Lol at Bach's post above.


----------



## FlyMe

Recently discovered Johann Baptist Vanhal - some very nice recordings available on Naxos.


----------



## ecg_fa

I echo Kurtag-- very interesting composer IMO.

Some others I've been enjoying lately: Renaissance composer Cristobel Morales; Baroque
composer Luigi Rossi; not exactly unknown but I've been discovering-- Buxtehude.
More contemporary-- Polish composers Penderecki (one of my fave 'modern' composers),
& Szymanowski. American composer Joan Tower; Swiss composer Frank Martin.

Those come to mind first anyway.

Ed


----------



## marval

I have also only recently discovered Johann Baptist Vanhal. Another one I have recently discovered is Johann Friedrich Fasch, I like both composers.


Margaret


----------



## shsherm

I would like to bring up the name of another composer in the lesser known category. That is George Whitefield Chadwick, an American composer from New England who was one of the people who taught Charles Ives. I have heard some of his music on WRR FM Dallas,TX and they are the only station that I ever heard his music on. They do have streaming on-line. I have never heard his music in any live performance. I have enjoyed his music when I heard it.


----------



## handlebar

I was wondering when Chadwick would be mentioned. I own a few cd's of his delightful music and consider him underrated too. Thanks for acknowledging him.

Jim


----------



## FlyMe

Oh dear.... Johann Friedrich Fasch ... that is new to me... how long can I stay away from Amazon before I start falling for the "Buy with 1 click button"


----------



## JTech82

Karol Szymanowski is also someone I've stumbled lately that I enjoy. Very underrated I think.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

JTech82 said:


> Karol Szymanowski is also someone I've stumbled lately that I enjoy. Very underrated I think.


I have the impression he is very well known. What evidence do you have to say he remains underrated?


----------



## JTech82

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> I have the impression he is very well known. What evidence do you have to say he remains underrated?


He's not popular in the regards of conductors championing his work and the actual recorded output, which is quite slim. That's the only proof I need.

Thank goodness for Simon Rattle and Antoni Wit or we might not even be able to hear Szymanowski.


----------



## TresPicos

My list:
Englund
Crusell
Chaminade
Francaix
Ibert
Reicha
Ireland
Delius
Cimarosa
Kraus
Lindblad
Stamitz
Cannabich


----------



## handlebar

I would say Ireland and Delius have been well represented but agree that they could be given more exposure.
Chaminade?? yes i agree! She has a few Chandos cd's out there. I own one and it is very fine.


----------



## Weston

TresPicos said:


> My list:
> Englund
> Crusell
> Chaminade
> Francaix
> Ibert
> Reicha
> Ireland
> Delius
> Cimarosa
> Kraus
> Lindblad
> Stamitz
> Cannabich


I can certainly agree with Antoine Reicha. I have only heard some of the wind quintets but find them somehow more interesting than that more famous Beethoven contemporary, Hummel.


----------



## Lang

handlebar said:


> I was wondering when Chadwick would be mentioned. I own a few cd's of his delightful music and consider him underrated too. Thanks for acknowledging him.
> 
> Jim


Yes, in the popular view, Chadwick has become a kind of 'person from Porlock'. Because of his attempts as a teacher to mould the unmouldable Charles Ives he is generally regarded as a highly inferior composer. But I heard some of his music some years ago, and I was quite taken aback by how good it was.


----------



## MM_Stanton

Hugo Alfven
Wilhelm Stenhammar
Kurt Atterberg
Ferdinand Ries
Nielsen 
Martinu
Rautavaara
Glazunov
Pejacevic
Joachim Raff

Definitely some of my favorite "unknown" composers.


----------



## MM_Stanton

Sergei Taneyev 
Cannabich

as well


----------



## Schubussy

I like Samuil Feinberg a lot, but I'm still working my way through the big names mostly.


----------



## Hassid

In my list of violin concertos, there are a lot of composers know by very few.


----------



## Vaneyes

One who might require further investigation, Russian Futurist *Arthur-Vincent Lourié* (1892 - 1966).


----------



## DrKilroy

Jean-Francois Dandrieu, Johan Helmich Roman, Charles-Valentin Alkan, Franz Berwald, Alberic Magnard, Karol Szymanowski, also Ralph Vaughan Williams, at least here in Poland - I think he is better known in United Kingdom.

Best regards, Dr


----------



## ampix

For over a year now I have made an effort to compile and listen to some of the lesser known Russian Symphonists. It has been a very interesting project. 

The ones I wholeheartedly recommend are Glazunov, Kallinikov, and Lyapunov. How Glazunov is not considered one of the greatest Romantic symphonic composers ever is utterly incomprehensible to me. He wrote 8 symphonies (and a single movement ninth), and each and every one of them is a great work. Stylistically they are reminiscent of Brahms, and they keep growing on me with each listening. Most have amazing and highly memorable scherzos. 

Kalinnikov and Lyapunov only wrote two symphonies each, but they are well worthwhile knowing if you can find a recording. 

Other single great works are Myaskovsky's 6th and Taneyev's 4th. And Borodin's 2nd (although that is pretty well known and more regularly performed than these others).


----------



## clavichorder

@Ampix, I realize you are focusing on symphonists, but what are your views on Medtner? Have you found value in his miniatures and skazki?(that is where his work exists at its most polished and imaginative). Or if you are coming from a symphonist background, do you like the big piano concertos? Medtner has been a favorite of mine for a while.

And what of Balakirev's 1st? I find it has some very strong points.

Glazunov is incredible, if you branch into concertos, I wholeheartedly recommend the 1st piano concerto. I have yet to look into Kallinikov, but Lyapunov I know for his solo piano music, which can be very fine.

One I very strongly recommend is Alexander Tcherepnin. He is a later composer, contemporary of Shostakovich and Prokofiev, wrote four symphonies. Rhythm and interesting scales are his strong points, but also very catchy themes. I do not know the second symphony, but the 1st is unique, very original and the second movement is percussion only. Its very accessible and lively. The third is very strong on exoticism and Stravinsky. The fourth is the masterpiece of the set in my opinion, it came out in the 60s, but it uses an exotic, and colorful tonal and orchestral language. The 6th Piano concerto came out at a similar time, and is the other masterpiece of Tcherepnin's that I've heard so far, the rhythm is incredible and it feels like an action movie sound track, though architecturally coherent and abstractly complex, and therefore not to be mistaken for film music, the work of a composer with his own voice.

1st symphony




3rd Symphony




and this will immediately make you think of Petrushka or Rite of Spring





Also, my favorite Myaskovsky symphony I've heard is no. 16, it has a more classic russian feel and sleek shape to it:


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Karl Reinecke made a Flute Sonata and a Flute Concerto, both now some of my most favorite pieces. He wrote at lot more besides that too, which I've not heard, but I can imagine just as lovely as those 2 flute works.

Joachim Raff is another great "unknown." His symphonies are what have caught my attention the most, but he wrote a ton of other music worth looking at. Both Raff and Reinecke were extremely prolific, opus numbers going into the 200-300s.

ARENSKY!!! My latest fad. I can't get enough of his piano and orchestral music. I'll be sad when I run out of things to listen to. 

I second all the other Russian composers mentioned above.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Brett Dean, Anthony Pateras, Kraus, Farrenc.


----------



## Andolink

Here's one I haven't seen mentioned anywhere on this thread: William Lawes (1602-1645)









Check out his Consort Setts, Royal Consorts, Fantasia-Suites and Sonatas. These represent the most innovative, forward looking (even proto-Romantic) works for viols of any composer of the 1st half of the 17th Century.


----------



## Sonata

I don't believe I've ever seen Adrian Munsey discussed anywhere. He does film music if I recall, and has only a few albums out that are not film music. But I love it, absolutely beautiful. I have his album entitled "Requiem" (though it's just a name, the music is not a structured requiem) and double album "Incognito"


----------



## hawk

Andinolink thanks for bringing William Lawes to my attention. I had a very quick listen to Suite No. 4 in D Major which I found enough to my liking to give a more serious listen when time permits...


----------



## violadude

I don't have a favorite unknown composer because I can't favor something that I don't know.


----------



## Nivmizzet

Um, I don't think any of the medieval/renaissance composers are known too much. 

The only medieval composers I can name without looking it up are yared (obviously) and hildegard von bingen, and the only renaissance I can name are josquin des prez, roland de lassus (I think that was his name?), and the 2 gabrielis.

edit: my most liked so far is yared, give him credit for inventing/creating/made music. 
As for music, probably andrea gabrieli, although des prez isn't bad. lassus is terrible IMO, the other gabrieli I've never heard his music, and hildegard isn't that good.


----------



## samurai

Please forgive me if he has already been mentioned in this thread, but I would nominate the two symphonies of Wilhelm Stenhammar, for those of us who like the works/styles of Sibelius and Nielsen.


----------



## SerbenthumInDerMusik

Hermann Goetz, Arthur Lourie. What's the upper limit of YT vids for "unknown" status? Both have less than 3 pages.

Glazunov and Myaskovsky are definitely not unknown.


----------



## Aries

- Frederick the Great, King of Prussia (1712–1786)
- Martin Scherber (1907–1974)


----------

