# Children as intended or unintended opera audience



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Please, share your stories and tips here.

I'll start:

My 7 year old daughter after hearing yet another opera plot, where young people want to marry somebody else than their parents wish:
"I think all the operas are about the same thing, except of _Il Viaggio a Reims_"
Me: "You know, adult people are very interested in the question of who marries whom, especially women. You will find out when you grow up."
She, thoughtfully: "Well, I admit, even some episodes of the _Super 4_ are about that."
(_Super 4_ is a children's cartoon)


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Humperdinck’s _Hänsel und Gretel_ is often thought of as a children's opera but I don't think it's _only_ a children's opera. I listen to it regularly. But nobody is getting married in that one!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Menotti: Help, help the globolinks"


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Ravel's _L'Enfant et les Sortileges_


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## Hogwash (5 mo ago)




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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Zauberkinder: Children and Childhood in Late Eighteenth-Century Singspiel and Lieder


Author(s): Mueller, Adeline | Advisor(s): Smart, Mary Ann | Abstract: In this dissertation, I trace the complex negotiations of childhood play, display, power, propriety, and authenticity in the Singspiels and Lieder of the late eighteenth century. My central claim is that the musical culture of...



escholarship.org


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> Zauberkinder: Children and Childhood in Late Eighteenth-Century Singspiel and Lieder
> 
> 
> Author(s): Mueller, Adeline | Advisor(s): Smart, Mary Ann | Abstract: In this dissertation, I trace the complex negotiations of childhood play, display, power, propriety, and authenticity in the Singspiels and Lieder of the late eighteenth century. My central claim is that the musical culture of...
> ...


Actually, my younger daughter requested that I obtain the Zauberfloette for our next car ride. She knows zero about it, but the title sounded promissing to her  . Do you have a favourite recording ? Something with good sound, not Wunderlich etc.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> She knows zero about it, but the title sounded promissing to her


get her to watch-


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> Actually, my younger daughter requested that I obtain the Zauberfloette for our next car ride. She knows zero about it, but the title sounded promissing to her  . Do you have a favourite recording ? Something with good sound, not Wunderlich etc.




All star cast and the famous Decca sound ,happy listening.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

As to Mozart's Magic Flute, you may want to skip most and go with the Klemperer mostly because it doesn't have the spoken dialogue which a 7y/o might find tiresome - besides it's very well sung.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> Actually, my younger daughter requested that I obtain the Zauberfloette for our next car ride. She knows zero about it, but the title sounded promissing to her  . Do you have a favourite recording ? Something with good sound, not Wunderlich etc.


Well, I'd recommend the Ingmar Bergman movie -






but unless you have video in your car--

Other problem is it's in Swedish, which fits the music just fine, but subtitles would be a problem, plus every time someone spouts a moral--which is often--a placard with the Swedish text pops up from below or drops from above. 

Other than that--it's a very central staging, but with some of the problems adjusted--no blackface for Monastatos and minions (they're in jester outfits instead, but still mean) and Schikaneder's mysogynistic bits are done "just as part of the test".

Musically, there's not one world-beating vocal turn in the whole thing, and yet it's well-sung, without one "ugly" sound in the whole thing either. And the spoken bits segue into and out of the musical bits very smoothly. 

Really amazing and kid-friendly without ever being twee.

Postscript, after trying "Preview"--

Well, the Youtube account is not letting me post a direct URL. But search for

*THE MAGIC FLUTE 🎶 MOZART 🎞 BERGMAN [IT, EN, FR, SPA, PT (Br)]*

posted by FrancescoDiLuca Jr.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Is there an illustrated guide to Zauberfloette ? Something like MET offers on their webpage, but children need prettier pictures,not caricature-like.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> Is there an illustrated guide to Zauberfloette ? Something like MET offers on their webpage, but children need prettier pictures,not caricature-like.


I only know this :









Die Zauberflöte (Opera) Plot & Characters


Die Zauberflöte plot summary, character breakdowns, context and analysis, and performance video clips.




stageagent.com


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Actually, my younger daughter requested that I obtain the Zauberfloette for our next car ride. She knows zero about it, but the title sounded promissing to her  . Do you have a favourite recording ? Something with good sound, not Wunderlich etc.


*Not *Wunderlich? Seems impossible, but that’s your choice. For a child, you might want to get a version without dialogue, unless you know German. My favorite is the Klemperer, with casting in depth - the only caveat is that I don’t like Gedda (but love Wunderlich, though the women there are no match for him).


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I had no idea about opera as a child, so it's difficult to know what to suggest. However, I think the main thing is how accessible the music is. Magic Flute is a good choice.

Musically Elisir should appeal to children. The plot is of the usual who marries whom sort though.

N.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

For a child you might try to find a version in a language the child understands WITH dialogue. Otherwise one would need to narrate the story in between the music, like a radio play or so.
Abduction is a bit more straightforward and has only one aria one might want to skip... I have seen this one in a (much simplified) school production with children/teenagers who had a lot of fun.
Although neither really has a subject fitting for children despite the fairy tale/adventure elements.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> *Not *Wunderlich? Seems impossible, but that’s your choice.


Maybe it can be with Wunderlich, but could you please point me to a recording with a really clear sound ?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"You must know that I sincerely love all children, if they are good, pious, industrious, and obedient children; that I prefer their company to the most brilliant assembly of adults, because I often observe with pain how much the world sees the saddest betrayal of the hope that they had in their childhood years, whereas I behold in you such greater expectations and hopes. [...] This, my love for you, is even more increased, because I myself am the father of four children, whom I I love more than all the treasures on earth, more than the whole world, yes, I almost want to say, more than my life itself." —Christian Felix Weisse, writing as “Herr Mentor,” Der Kinderfreund


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> Maybe it can be with Wunderlich, but could you please point me to a recording with a really clear sound ?


My two top picks would be either Böhm (1964, DGG) which has Wunderlich as Tamino, or Klemperer (1964, EMI) which doesn't. The Klemperer doesn't include the spoken dialogues, as previously mentioned. Both are really good recordings. Both are in stereo. 

For even more recent sound, Karajan's 1980 recording is a good choice (it was Karajan's first ever digital recording, I believe; casting not as good as the other two but still pretty good). Edith Mathis and Francisco Araiza are Pamina and Tamino; Sarastro is sung by José van Dam, and Gottfried Hornik sings Papageno. Georg Solti recorded it twice, both in stereo, and one of those might also be a good choice. 

OK now that you've got me thinking about it I'm going to listen to this opera now. I think I'll go for the earlier Solti recording (from 1969) since I don't remember much about it.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> I had no idea about opera as a child, so it's difficult to know what to suggest. However, I think the main thing is how accessible the music is. Magic Flute is a good choice.
> 
> Musically Elisir should appeal to children. The plot is of the usual who marries whom sort though.
> 
> N.


Actually, my partner (!!!) listened to the tenor arias from L'elisir d'amore in a car. I am the driver of the household, so I take these liberties. And he said "this was actually quite listenable" ! He hates opera  . I kissed him and told him that I love him


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> Actually, my partner (!!!) listened to the tenor arias from L'elisir d'amore in a car. I am the driver of the household, so I take these liberties. And he said "this was actually quite listenable" ! He hates opera  . I kissed him and told him that I love him


Bless you 👏


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Actually, my partner (!!!) listened to the tenor arias from L'elisir d'amore in a car. I am the driver of the household, so I take these liberties. And he said "this was actually quite listenable" ! He hates opera  . I kissed him and told him that I love him


Great! Onto La Fille du regiment next!

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Maybe it can be with Wunderlich, but could you please point me to a recording with a really clear sound ?



The DG Böhm recording is in clear, stereo sound. I've never had a problem with it, nor in fact with any of Wunderlich's studio recordings.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> Is there an illustrated guide to Zauberfloette ?


In that Kenneth Branaugh movie, all the text is spoken or sung in English, just so you know.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I think the problem will not be the optimal singers, not even the recitatives, but the plot. I will have to properly memorize it. My kids don't speak German / English / Swedish and I am the narrator in the car. My older daughter became impatient, when I wasn't sure if is Pamina or Queen of the Night singing at the moment


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

-


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Best way for you to memorize it might be to listen to it a bunch of times, and then you can also use that as an opportunity to select your favorite recordings. This has the added benefit that you get to listen to a lot of Mozart!

Pamina and the Queen of the Night have very different music. If you can hear the pyrotechnics then it's the Queen of the Night. Her arias show up in commercial advertisements and elsewhere in day-to-day life, so I wonder if your children already know her music.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Monsalvat said:


> Pamina and the Queen of the Night have very different music. If you can hear the pyrotechnics then it's the Queen of the Night.


It started out as sad and resigned, so I thought it is the captive Pamina. But suddenly she started producing pyrotechnics. And then sounded sad and resigned again.


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## Branko (3 mo ago)

I would recommend Don Pasquale. Lots of fun in the plot and superb music. When I was a kid, we had a recording at home, cannot remember which one, but we had it blasting in the playroom a lot while playing with lego. Sang along loudly too. We had our own record player and our own vinyls.

The other one is La Cenerentola. Absolutely fabulous, uplifting music. And a fairy tale plot.

On another note, I have always found children respond to Tchaikovsky ballets really well. In my experience they seem to immediately relate to the different characters and moods you can hear just in the music alone, without the watching the show. The music seems to inspire and fire up the imagination quite a bit.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

In March, we can actually see Die Zauberflötte live, if my daughter will still think it is a good idea by that time.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

BBSVK said:


> It started out as sad and resigned, so I thought it is the captive Pamina. But suddenly she started producing pyrotechnics. And then sounded sad and resigned again.


She misses her daughter... I don't remember exactly if there was really originally a plan to have the Queen as the "good one" and Sarastro as the baddie and it was changed later or if it was just to make it more exciting, i.e. to deceive the audience along with Tamino about who are really the good guys.

(However, I cannot remember ever having heard a QoN aria in a commercial - I think the most popular arias in commercials are not by Mozart: Flower duet, Mio babbino caro, La donna é mobile etc.)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I don’t think any opera would’ve been intended for children…


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> I don’t think any opera would’ve been intended for children…


Technically, you are wrong. There are several made specifically for children. Our theater has this one: 


Spoiler: Peter Zagar: A Tale of a Happy End



A Tale of a Happy End | Slovak national theatre


But you are right, that most operas that are traditionally recommended for children are in fact not made for them primarily, so contain elements which are hard to explain. And don't get me started on Rusalka, a gothic horror disguised in fairy tale costumes


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I was told, the above mentioned children's opera by Zagar is good (pleasant), the example of the music also suggests that.


Spoiler: Music example - Zagar: A fairy tale about happy ending










My older daughter almost went to see it with her grandmother but Covid stopped it. However, this is a very unusual way for me to process the opera - seeing it live and no CD to listen to first or to return to the music at home.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

MAS said:


> I don’t think any opera would’ve been intended for children…


There are quite a few operas explicitly intended for children and some have been mentioned in this thread or elsewhere, e.g. Krasa's "Brundibar", Menotti's "Help, the Globolinks" and a few more.
But you are right that the 18th and 19th century operas often suggested for children, are not intended for them at all, not even Hänsel and Gretel although this is based on a very popular Grimm fairytale. Now one could argue that these tales were not intended for children but de facto they became tales for children very soon and later editions of Grimm's were "cleaned up", so it clearly was a children's tale when Humperdinck wrote the opera, and I think the composer made a difference between it and the more adult/tragic fairytale "Königskinder".


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