# Your Favourite Cerebral Music



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Been on a cerebral music binge lately, as evident in my own compositions in the Today's Composer's subforum. What are some of your favourites? As few hooks as possible, please!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

When I saw your post for some reason this popped into my head, which I've not heard for ages and so I listened to it. I think it's very good indeed.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> When I saw your post for some reason this popped into my head, which I've not heard for ages and so I listened to it. I think it's very good indeed.
> 
> View attachment 118334


Hard to find any of his stuff on Youtube, but he does show up on Spotify. Yes, his Preludes are quite abstract and cerebral, except for Prelude Nos. 5, 9, and 11 which are quite moody. No. 11 is almost too catchy, until he destroys the mood beautifully.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by cerebral music. Could you say a bit more or give some examples.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Enthusiast said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by cerebral music. Could you say a bit more or give some examples.


I'm going to wait and see what happens. I'm sure the answer will reveal itself.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Eno: Neroli • Thinking Music Part IV


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Your Favourite Cerebral Music*



Enthusiast said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by cerebral music. Could you say a bit more or give some examples.





millionrainbows said:


> I'm going to wait and see what happens. I'm sure the answer will reveal itself.


It was Charles Ives, I believe, who remarked that most people listen to music with their feet, implying that they did so rather than the alternative of listening with their ears (heads, brains).

I know I find listening to music with my ears (head, brain) more stimulating, enjoyable, worthwhile than listening with my feet (as being in a dance hall where a throbbing sound overwhelms and all one can process of the sound is a steady machine-like rhythm).

For me, so much music is "cerebral" in that I would not want to hear my Monteverdi, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Schoenberg, Cage, Penderecki, Xenakis, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Joe Henderson, Thelonious Monk, Beatles, Stones, Led Zeppelin or thousands of other such musics without the cooperation of my senses and intellect. Tapping my foot along to a beat is simply not enough to qualify to me as "a listening experience".

So, it's _all_ "cerebral music", or it is nothing at all -- certainly not worth listening to (on my time)!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This music (Milton Babbitt) has no life to me, and lacks color, but it is impressive.


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## infracave (May 14, 2019)

Ockeghem's missa prolationum
And the musical offering by Bach.

Also, Beethoven's PS 11 op22, 1st mvt. It's so full of clever motivic transformations.
Dunno if it really qualifies as cerebral, but it is to me.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by cerebral music. Could you say a bit more or give some examples.


Examples as in the original post. I guess we all may have different meanings of cerebral. To me it is music that I don't feel any emotions or mood in particular, more abstract music. I've heard of some Jazz described that way, like Eric Dolphy.



millionrainbows said:


> I'm going to wait and see what happens. I'm sure the answer will reveal itself.


Why? You think I have something up my sleeve?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I'm more or less with SONNET CLV in finding all music cerebral. And I also think all music is more or less abstract. But all the music I listen to moves me so I'm out of this one, I fear.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Your Favourite Cerebral Music*

I suspect we _could_ call the frequencies of brain waves "cerebral music". In a nutshell, we recognize four brain wave ranges: Beta (14-30 Hz) -- present in normal waking consciousness; Alpha (7-14 Hz) -- in states of relaxation; Theta (4-7 Hz) -- in meditative states; and the slowest, Delta (0.5-4 Hz) -- in deep sleep and profound meditative states. Recordings of brain activity (EEG) can conceivably be translated into sound by utilizing a speaker attached to the EEG unit, but unless one is capable of hearing sound in the range of 4-30 Hz, it shant do much good. Apparently, researchers insist one can use sound (music) to alter brain wave frequencies and produce specific desired results -- biofeedback.

Which brings up such "cerebral music" as this, I suppose:






It ain't Bach. But if _that_ floats your boat, it may be all the "cerebral music" you ever need.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Examples as in the original post. I guess we all may have different meanings of cerebral. To me it is music that I don't feel any emotions or mood in particular, more abstract music. I've heard of some Jazz described that way, like Eric Dolphy.
> 
> Why? You think I have something up my sleeve?


Looks like you enjoy it for every reason I dislike it!  :tiphat:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> This music (Milton Babbitt) has no life to me, and lacks color, but it is impressive.


Hardcore serialism isn't known for its colorful characteristics. I'm about to revisit Humphrey Searle's symphonies. I can't remember if there are any hooks, but I recall the music being rather dynamic.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I suppose Bach's Art of Fugue is cerebral, but I have plenty of feelings when listening to the work. If I don't feel the music, I don't want it.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

I think Tom Jonson is one of the most cerebral composers.

http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=83071
_But after 1975, while the same Reich distanced himself from the radicalism of his first works, and younger American composers came out with music that was lusher, more expressive, even sentimental, Johnson insisted on the unrelenting rigor of formalized processes._

Rational Melodies: _combinations of cycles of different lengths (I, IV, XI, XVII, XVIII), permutations (VII, X), the paper-folding or "dragon" formula (II, XIX), other automata (XVI, XX), or self-similar structures (XIV, XV)._


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Not sure how you get more cerebral than Beethoven's Op. 126.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

5906, a superpermutation on N=7 by Greg Eagan - Matt Parker





_"A superpermutation is a string formed from a set of n symbols such that every one of the n! permutations of those symbols appears exactly once as a contiguous block of n characters in the string."_ - Greg Eagan
https://www.gregegan.net/SCIENCE/Superpermutations/Superpermutations.html


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## infracave (May 14, 2019)

KenOC said:


> Not sure how you get more cerebral than Beethoven's Op. 126.


Why do you consider these pieces to be cerebral music ? I'm not really familiar with Beethoven's bagatelles.

Well except Für Elise and the one where he makes the bagatelle sound like an actual bagatelle (pinball). Pretty fun.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

tortkis said:


> 5906, a superpermutation on N=7 by Greg Eagan - Matt Parker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a funny video. I guess you can't get more cerebral, being mathematically generated. My idea of cerebral music originally was music that had a large human design factor that was geared towards the brain working and restrictive on sensual elements like mood, colour, emotion, even repetition, especially of a hook, like an ultra-Absolute music. I agree the Bach and Beethoven's later music has a cerebral quality, but I would say it isn't purely cerebral, which of course is a good thing since they operate more on the senses too.

My fave cerebral composer is Bartok. I excluded him in the OP, because of his detestable use of tone colour and certain hooks  So to me he isn't as pure as Babbitt or Webern, even though a famous critic or composer called him "too abstract"






While repetition and hooks are allowed, might as well include this.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

tortkis said:


> 5906, a superpermutation on N=7 by Greg Eagan - Matt Parker
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I listened to the first minute or so, then skipped ahead to the halfway point, then skipped ahead to the end, and it all sounded the same. With something like this, I feel like you can read the description of how it was produced and get the same experience of actually listening to it. So save yourself the 25 minutes!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> My idea of cerebral music originally was music that had a large human design factor that was geared towards the brain working


In order to eliminate ego, I suppose. So chance is probably an important part of the idea of cerebral music


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> That's a funny video. I guess you can't get more cerebral, being mathematically generated.


That may be a musical joke (Matt Parker is a comedian who was originally a math teacher), but in the middle ages music was taught as a part of mathematics and cerebral ideas had been long used in musical compositions. It was important that music represented the harmony of the universe which was thought to be based on the principle of numbers. The Parker's piece, as well as early hardcore minimalism, may be deeply rooted in the tradition of Western music. 



> My idea of cerebral music originally was music that had a large human design factor that was geared towards the brain working and restrictive on sensual elements like mood, colour, emotion, even repetition, especially of a hook, like an ultra-Absolute music.


I wonder how much cerebral the modern/contemporary compositions which sound abstract actually are. For example, is there any rigorous principle in the compositions of Ferneyhough, or he more or less writes the complex scores intuitively?


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## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

A few suggestions of works which perhaps could be described as "cerebral music". Though I doubt that one can separate mind and emotion to an absolute degree.

*Nikolaus Brass*

Void (for piano)





Void II (orchestral, first movement)





Songlines IV (for violin and double bass)





*Walter Zimmermann*

The Echoing Green (for violin and piano)





Lied im Wüstenvogelton (for bass-flute and piano)


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## sonance (Aug 20, 2018)

continued

Distentio (for string trio)





*Georg Friedrich Haas*

in vain (for ensemble)





My recording is by the Klangforum Wien (clip above); maybe you prefer a live performance?





Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich (for percussion and ensemble)





*Alberto Posadas*

Liturgia fractal (for string quartet, first movement)





*Almeida Prado*

Cartas Celestes no. 2 (for piano)


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I will take by "cerebral", music that I'm impressed to listen, savouring mainly its sonic qualities, and how they are produced, with little or no emotional attachment.

One of my favorites examples is this "Cassandra's Dream Song", written by Brian Ferneyhough back in the 1970s:






Of course, this is always rather personal, as what it's emotional for one person, it could not be for another. But in this particular case, I concentrate in the sounds, how they are (or not) related, and how they are produced, instead of the piece rousing any particular emotion in me.


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