# Suggestions to get into Atonal and Serial Music?



## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm wondering if any of you have a good idea of suggestions of pieces of atonal or serial music that would be easier to get into or listen to. I've become somewhat interested in the area of music since a bartok piece piqued my interest.

I am a bit conservative in musical tastes, so less abrasive and "difficult" pieces would be appreciated.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Alban Berg's violin concerto is a safe bet.


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## E Cristobal Poveda (Jul 12, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> Alban Berg's violin concerto is a safe bet.


Listening to it, it strikes me almost as if a Jazz piece was re-arranged for a classical ensemble. Of course the rhythms are different.
Interesting. It hasn't made me want to throw my speaker across the room yet, so that's good.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I like Anton Webern's symphony. It's more about points of sound than racing around with arcane tone rows. 

I also like Pollini's version of Webern's Piano Variations.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Atonal Music:

Webern - _Five Pieces for Orchestra_; _Six Pieces for Orchestra_
Schoenberg - Six Pieces for Piano (_Klavierstueke_), Op. 19


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Serial Music:

Luigi Dallapiccola - _Quaderno Musicale di Annalibera_ for piano


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Berg's _Lulu_ suite (or the whole opera, but the suite is less of a time commitment).


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Boulez - Rituel in memoriam Bruno Maderna.

Although not serial in the most conventional sense.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2018)

Boulez: Messagesquisse and Derive I were the first Boulez pieces I loved. I recommended them to someone who used to hate serial music, now he loves it.

Late Scriabin is worth it. Also, Schoenberg's piano concerto, Reginald Smith-Brindle's El Polifemo de Oro are two other good serial works.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

If you want a different sort of '12 tone' music and something that might be more approachable, try this from Lutoslawski. He developed a 12-tone technique which manages to sustain a kind of melody and harmony more recognisably 'tonal'.

Might be a good bridging work:


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

eugeneonagain said:


> If you want a different sort of '12 tone' music and something that might be more approachable, try this from Lutoslawski. He developed a 12-tone technique which manages to sustain a kind of melody and harmony more recognisably 'tonal'.
> 
> Might be a good bridging work:


I love the Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra but it leans toward tonal more than atonal; his next work "Funeral Music" is a bridge piece and I highly recommend that. Then if you stay with him, jump to his Symphony #4; it's a masterpiece.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Some of Ginastera's atonal music isn't too hard to listen to; try the second piano concerto , second cello concerto, or Popol Vuh. Copland's two atonal pieces, Connotations and Inscape, aren't too rough either and are great pieces of music.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2018)

Another Copland example, and probably one of the best serial compositions I have heard from an American composer, his Piano Quartet.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Roger Knox said:


> Atonal Music:
> 
> Webern - _Five Pieces for Orchestra_; _Six Pieces for Orchestra_
> Schoenberg - Six Pieces for Piano (_Klavierstueke_), Op. 19


I second these. Short pieces were easier for me to understand at first.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Babbitt - All Set.

Babbitt - Semi Simple Variations.

The obvious jazz influence and 'swing' in those pieces tend to make them accessible.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Stockhausen has the very melodic *Tierkreis* in many instrumental adaptations.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

*Henze - Symphony 7* - very accessible
*Schoenberg - Piano Concerto* - this got me into Schoenberg
*Berg - Violin Concerto
Berg - Wozzeck*
*Lutoslawski - Concerto for Orchestra*


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> I like Anton Webern's symphony. It's more about points of sound than racing around with arcane tone rows.
> 
> I also like Pollini's version of Webern's Piano Variations.


I agree with trying Webern. Although atonal, to my fairly conservative ears he is not at all dissonant - so I find his music very approachable. And when it hits the spot there is nothing like it.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

This piece might be a nice introduction to atonal music. You can call it dissonant polyphony, but still it has a calm and serene quality.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Vasks said:


> I love the Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra but it leans toward tonal more than atonal; his next work "Funeral Music" is a bridge piece and I highly recommend that. Then if you stay with him, jump to his Symphony #4; it's a masterpiece.


I have the Naxos 10CD box of Lutoslawski. I still haven't listened to everything on it; particularly the vocal music. I have listened to the Funeral Music and Symphony 4 more than anything else (they are on the same disc ) .

The reason I offered the Concerto is because I think it has just enough deviation from straight-up tonality to ease a listener into that sphere.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2018)

Kopachris said:


> I second these. Short pieces were easier for me to understand at first.


Different people have different reactions, of course. Exposure to these short pieces initially convinced me that atonal music was not for me, and I have still not warmed to them. What appealed to me were long-form pieces that I could recognize as familiar classical forms, untethered from tonality. Some have already been mentioned, the Berg Violin Concerto, the Schoenberg Piano Concerto, the Berg Chamber Concerto, the Webern Symphony, Schoenberg's Suite for Winds.


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## qualitywaffles (Apr 16, 2018)

Nikos Skalkottas (1904-1949) tends to be pretty accessible. I like his concertino for oboe and piano (1939):


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)




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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

Try this:


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2018)

It's best to approach your studies in a structured self-paced manner... Try to work your way through this series of modules -

"20th Century: Impressionism, Expressionism, & Twelve-Tone" -

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/musicapp-medieval-modern/chapter/playlist-for-the-20th-century/

"20th Century: Introduction to Primitivism, Nationalism, and Neoclassicism" -

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/m...to-primitivism-nationalism-and-noeclassicism/

"20th Century: Aleatoric, Electronic, and Minimalist Music" -

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/musicapp-medieval-modern/chapter/short-ride-in-a-fast-machine/

And finally allow me to repeat a bit of advice that I first presented in a different thread by recommending that you familiarize yourself with the concept of the "classic ad hominem attack" which is a weapon that may occasionally be needed in your arsenal...

"Ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Webern's lieder. If nothing else, you can appreciate a good singer.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Atonal music:

Elliott Carter's 1st String Quartet:






Alban Berg Chamber Concerto: 




However, the human voice might provide a better entry point:

Arnold Schoenberg: Pierrot lunaire, Op. 21, and Das Buch der Hängenden Gärten (The Book of the Hanging Gardens), Op. 15, based on poems by Stefan George:














Berg, Schoenberg, Schreker--"Frühe Lieder":





If you're willing to look further back, the "Prophetiae Sibyllarum" of Orlando Lassus: 




Serialism:

Pierre Boulez--Incises for Piano, and Incises, for pianos, harps & percussion:















Jean-Henri-Alphonse Barraqué Piano Sonata:


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

I find that I enjoy orchestral works the most in atonal compositions, so Schoenberg's piano concerto, Webern's six pieces for orchestra etc.. The complexity of timbral colour adds a whole new dimension of effects which atonality seems to me particularly able to exploit.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2018)

Berg's Three Pieces for orchestra are also terrific.


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