# Favorite Zappa/Mothers Album



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Simple - select your favorite Zappa/ Mothers Albumif not listed here (god there are so many and still counting- trust still pumping them out hey!) list your favorite.

Simple Easy, Easy Meat right..............









Sooooo many choices and like them all too but I chose Uncle Meat over WOIIFTM for me.

Into Grand Wazoo at the moment even brought a nice vinyl copy in France while on hols. "In France" FZ reference call it conceptual continuity - I'm sure Frank would like that. lol

Damn the ghost of Zappa has selected one size fits all twice- maybe that is the answer......


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Eddie, are you kidding?? There are so many great Zappa albums to choose from!

My favourites are:

Absolutely Free 
WOIFTM 
Uncle Meat 
Live At Fillmore East 
Burnt Weeny Sandwich 
Make a Jazz noise here 
The Yellow Shark 

Too many man!!!

:lol:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Xenakiboy said:


> Eddie, are you kidding?? There are so many great Zappa albums to choose from!
> 
> My favourites are:
> 
> ...


Did you call?- well that is my name after all. You should have seen the reaction to my Mothers vs VU poll lol 
Don't know if even Flo would have approved of that one.

like your choices all good and my god there are a lot of them. I wonder if the trust keeps on releasing albums, could (in theory), if they go on releasing them at the current rate- out eclipse all other album releases in history. 
Would keep Zappa plays Zappa in material infinitely......... scary thought


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Did you call?- well that is my name after all. You should have seen the reaction to my Mothers vs VU poll lol
> Don't know if even Flo would have approved of that one.
> 
> like your choices all good and my god there are a lot of them. I wonder if the trust keeps on releasing albums, could (in theory), if they go on releasing them at the current rate- out eclipse all other album releases in history.
> Would keep Zappa plays Zappa in material infinitely......... scary thought


I still want to hear "The Rage and the Fury" album, of Varese pieces. Sir Edgard is a very important and much loved personally composer by many, it is one of the completed unreleased recordings that the world should get!

I still wish Zappa could have completed the uncle Meat movie, that always frustrates me. The concept is just plain awesome!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

With Gail gone who knows especially with recent report of trouble in the family eg Zappa plays Zappa Debacle, The Rage and the Fury might take some time...........

Uncle Meat movie would have been good - my favorite FZ album too


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm trying to get The complete orchestral version of Frank Zappa's "200 Motels" but can't find a copy here in OZ


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'm trying to get The complete orchestral version of Frank Zappa's "200 Motels" but can't find a copy here in OZ


Do you mean the "200 Motels Suites"?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Xenakiboy said:


> Do you mean the "200 Motels Suites"?


Yes by the Los Angeles Philharmonic, its not available in OZ I've tried and failed trying to get it- all the stores keep shoving at me was the original 200 Motels here - they have no idea!


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Yes by the Los Angeles Philharmonic, its not available in OZ I've tried and failed trying to get it- all the stores keep shoving at me was the original 200 Motels here - they have no idea!


Have you tried online? Like Amazon for instance? Who are definitely selling it


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I only recall having two Zappa Albums, "Just another band from LA" and "Overnight Sensation." I voted for "Just another band from LA." Overnight sensation has a lot of great guitar but some of the subject matter does not suit me anymore like it did when I was 17 years old. I do like "I am the Slime from the Video" a lot and I think that is on "Overnight Sensation." Beyond these I can't say that I have heard much other Zappa. 

I had some Zappa 8 track tape back in the day that I got sick of one day while driving down the road and I pulled it out and whipped it out the window on the highway. It cracked open and spooled out along the road. My friend freaked. "What'd'ja do that for? I'd have taken it." He said. "Too late" I replied. I remember it had some rather perverse stuff on it, something about Suzy Cream Cheese. Don't remember much more about it.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Billy was a mountain, Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Three favourites, _Sheik Yerbouti (Dancin' Fool, Jewish Princess), You Are What You Is (Heavenly Bank Account, Dumb All Over)_ and _The Yellow Shark_ (EVERYTHING).


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Think I haven't seen you in a while?! Nice you're back.

But why do you torture us with this poll? It would've been easier if you asked if there was a Zappa album I don't like that much.
But you're right listing One size fits all twice, maybe his best album, next of course to Civilization Phase III, Uncle Meat, Roxy & Elsewhere, Zappa in New York, Joe's Garage, You are what you is, Zappa's Guitar Albums, The Yellow Shark, YCDTOS 1-6 etc.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Florestan said:


> I only recall having two Zappa Albums, "Just another band from LA" and "Overnight Sensation." I voted for "Just another band from LA." Overnight sensation has a lot of great guitar but some of the subject matter does not suit me anymore like it did when I was 17 years old. I do like "I am the Slime from the Video" a lot and I think that is on "Overnight Sensation." Beyond these I can't say that I have heard much other Zappa.
> 
> I had some Zappa 8 track tape back in the day that I got sick of one day while driving down the road and I pulled it out and whipped it out the window on the highway. It cracked open and spooled out along the road. My friend freaked. "What'd'ja do that for? I'd have taken it." He said. "Too late" I replied. I remember it had some rather perverse stuff on it, something about Suzy Cream Cheese. Don't remember much more about it.


You were a moron, a vandal, a barbarian :devil::devil:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Uncle Meat
Weasels Ripped My Flesh


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Xenakiboy said:


> Have you tried online? Like Amazon for instance? Who are definitely selling it


thanks could do, main shop left here for such things is Jb HiFi but tried and failed


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Florestan said:


> I only recall having two Zappa Albums, "Just another band from LA" and "Overnight Sensation." I voted for "Just another band from LA." Overnight sensation has a lot of great guitar but some of the subject matter does not suit me anymore like it did when I was 17 years old. I do like "I am the Slime from the Video" a lot and I think that is on "Overnight Sensation." Beyond these I can't say that I have heard much other Zappa.
> 
> I had some Zappa 8 track tape back in the day that I got sick of one day while driving down the road and I pulled it out and whipped it out the window on the highway. It cracked open and spooled out along the road. My friend freaked. "What'd'ja do that for? I'd have taken it." He said. "Too late" I replied. I remember it had some rather perverse stuff on it, something about Suzy Cream Cheese. Don't remember much more about it.


do you realise how much that 8 track would be worth now ......... oh well

Just another band from LA is always go fun - Eddie are you kidding lol


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Uncle Meat
> Weasels Ripped My Flesh


good to see Weasels getting votes


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

What a difficult question - my favourite Zappa era was '72-'75. I love seeing the evolution of material from the Grand Wazoo, to the Petit Wazoo, to the '73 Jean-Luc Ponty band to the Roxy band to the YCDTOSA #2 Band, instrumental material was stellar and the songs were also great. I love the richness in the sound of all these groups, beautiful, warm horns (that blend so well with the violin in the '73 band), the flavour of Ruth's percussion, George Duke's unparallelled contribution on keys (in my opinion, he made the bands he was in just as much as Zappa did - his playing really complimented Zappa's style, but made it accessible too). Roxy would be an obvious choice - I personally prefer Road Tapes #2, more instrumental material, and the definitive version of Big Swifty. I also think Roxy By Proxy has some great material on that should have been released years ago (the early version of Inca Roads, the vibrant medley of Dog Breath, Uncle Meat and RDNZL - and by the way, what a ******* beautiful rendition of RDNZL. Despite the absence of the wonderful, lyrical melody from the YCDTOSA #2 version, those '73 performances really had a lot more raw energy in them, and always had great improvisations in them).

But the Mothers were so unique - I love how raw they are, and Zappa never replicated the weirdness of the old Mothers, that was a special time and place. I love Uncle Meat, Ahead of Their Time (what a majestic version of King Kong, and what lovely chamber music), and I almost think my favourite album of theirs is We're Only In It For the Money, but then I think of Burnt Weeny and Weasels and wonder if that really is so (what a beautiful moment in Little House, when the violin solo ends and you're suddenly hit by that surprisingly delicate chamber vignette). One thing I do wish is that Zappa had recorded and released his 1970 concert with Zubin Mehta and the LA Philharmonic. There are some lovely moments in that version of 200 Motels which I don't think I've heard elsewhere (http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=28296).

And I love The Yellow Shark, but I think the LSO album is mroe fun to listen to. Mo n' Herb's Vacation is among Zappa's finest orchestral works. In fact, I think his orchestral stuff is my favourite stuff of his, when all is said and done. And what's tragic is that some of his nicest pieces are left unreleased or unperformed (or both). Eddie, definitely persevere with the 200 Motels Suites, it's a great album (and I was lucky enough to have seen the London performance at Royal Festival Hall in October 2013!).

I suppose that's an incredibly long-winded way of saying I can't decide...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Money, Uncle Meat, and Lumpy Gravy are the best of the very early albums, imo. The melodies in tunes like Absolutely Free, and Oh No are very beautiful. I rarely ever listen to Freak Out, Absolutely Free, or Reuben and the Jets.

A 3 disc set entitled Meat Light is going to be coming out soon. It's another one of those project/object conceptual continuity projects like Lumpy/Money. It will be interesting to hear what's on it. And there are two other vault releases in the works. A Chicago 1978 show, and a Grand Wazoo era concert.


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

'66 -'73. After that, meh.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Fascinating essay by Simon Prentis.

https://www.facebook.com/zblackpage...822395007532/1133851310004636/?type=3&theater


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I forgot to mention that I once went to a Frank Zappa concert. I can't remember much at all but that at one point they brought a full-sized blow-up female doll on stage. It would have been in the time frame between 1978 and 1982.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Florestan said:


> I forgot to mention that I once went to a Frank Zappa concert. I can't remember much at all but that at one point they brought a full-sized blow-up female doll on stage. It would have been in the time frame between 1978 and 1982.


A prop for a song like Rubber Girl or Miss Pinky. FZ was very aware of the different types of fans in his audience, so for those who weren't really into the actual notes and compositions, there were always some silly sex songs.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

starthrower said:


> A prop for a song like Rubber Girl or Miss Pinky. FZ was very aware of the different types of fans in his audience, so for those who weren't really into the actual notes and compositions, there were always some silly sex songs.


Which in my opinion should be read as cynical comment on the mental health of young Americans and other First World inhabitants (including the mental health of some of his band members), especially the overeducated shitheads. Many Zappa songs that feature American boys or girls should be interpreted that same way imo. Zappa's the author/composer which doesn't mean all his songs voice his personal opinions. At least that is how I've also seen it but I'm not native to the language and sometimes miss out on the specific American context and lingo. It's possible I miss some of the nuances. So what is your opinion? Some of my female friends I tried to sell Zappa to in the past distrusted his lyrics and found him sexist and degrading to woman.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> Which in my opinion should be read as cynical comment on the mental health of young Americans and other First World inhabitants (including the mental health of some of his band members), especially the overeducated shitheads. Many Zappa songs that feature American boys or girls should be interpreted that same way imo. Zappa's the author/composer which doesn't mean all his songs voice his personal opinions. At least that is how I've also seen it but I'm not native to the language and sometimes miss out on the specific American context and lingo. It's possible I miss some of the nuances. So what is your opinion? Some of my female friends I tried to sell Zappa to in the past distrusted his lyrics and found him sexist and degrading to woman.


Your correct Zappa always said that he was commenting on US culture and he should be seen as a composer/ author who also believed strongly in free speech


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Of the Zappa albums, personally, I like Grand Wazoo. The obligatory Zappa prurient lyrics are nonexistent in this one (though there is, of course, some offensive graffiti on the cover, but you have to be looking for it). When it came out, I was into jazz, and a whole lot of heavy hitters were on it. I even transcribed Billy Byers' solo on the title track. And I actually own a Mystery Horn (actually, a C melody sax but not borrowed from Jackie Kelso). 

I also have a soft spot for Freak Out. Though some tracks are off color and don't match my present tastes, it comes with nice memories. My best friend in college had it, and he gave it to me. It has a big chunk taken out of one LP where he threw it across the room like a frisbee. I was stunned the first time I heard Varese's Ionisation, because I recognized it from Freak Out. And it was very cool when the Woody Herman band did a cover of America Drinks and Goes Home.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Casebearer said:


> Which in my opinion should be read as cynical comment on the mental health of young Americans and other First World inhabitants (including the mental health of some of his band members), especially the overeducated shitheads. Many Zappa songs that feature American boys or girls should be interpreted that same way imo. Zappa's the author/composer which doesn't mean all his songs voice his personal opinions. At least that is how I've also seen it but I'm not native to the language and sometimes miss out on the specific American context and lingo. It's possible I miss some of the nuances. So what is your opinion? Some of my female friends I tried to sell Zappa to in the past distrusted his lyrics and found him sexist and degrading to woman.


Overeducated shitheads? What are you talking about? And as far as the sordid subject matter of some of the rock n roll songs are concerned, I doubt FZ sat around dreaming up this stuff. It was usually related to an everyday matter, and life on the road. And if it made Frank laugh, he would immortalize it in a song. He didn't sit around reading classic literature and poetry for lyrical inspiration. St Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast is not only poking fun at the Catholic Church, but some of the references are related to a goofy American TV commercial for Imperial Margarine. Stuff like this is lost on a European audience. And other songs (Andy) can be more difficult to interpret, as Simon Prentis expounds on in the essay I posted.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Florestan said:


> I only recall having two Zappa Albums, "Just another band from LA" and "Overnight Sensation." I voted for "Just another band from LA." Overnight sensation has a lot of great guitar but some of the subject matter does not suit me anymore like it did when I was 17 years old. I do like "I am the Slime from the Video" a lot and I think that is on "Overnight Sensation." Beyond these I can't say that I have heard much other Zappa.
> 
> I had some Zappa 8 track tape back in the day that I got sick of one day while driving down the road and I pulled it out and whipped it out the window on the highway. It cracked open and spooled out along the road. My friend freaked. "What'd'ja do that for? I'd have taken it." He said. "Too late" I replied. I remember it had some rather perverse stuff on it, something about Suzy Cream Cheese. Don't remember much more about it.


One short Zappa song that I really like is titled, "Evelyn, a Modified Dog."

When I looked it up I saw that it is on the album, One Size Fits All. Now every song on that album is familiar, so it appears that I must have owned that album also.

But I am curious why One Size Fits All is listed twice in the poll.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

"Lumpy Gravy" is a singular album; I go through phases. Lately it's been Waka/Jawaka, because I'm in a jazz fusion mood. I periodically pull out "Sheik Yerbouti" to hear the "Yo' Mama" solo, and "Truckdriver Divorce" and the insanity that follows. Listening a lot also to the original mix of "Reuben & the Jets," a.k.a. "Greasy Love Songs" in the truck. 

"Burnt Weenie Sandwich" the other day, to hear all of it: out-of-tune sax on "Holiday in Berlin" and WPLJ.

The remaster of "Absolutely Free" sounds perceptibly better; so does Hot Rats, Lumpy Gravy, Burnt Weenie, Weasels, and many others taken from analog tape sources.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

200 Motels has some great melodies; I love "Sealed Tuna Sandwwich." Beautiful. And the closing "hymn," Lord Have Mercy…it's really emotional.

My mother, God bless her, heard me playing Hot Rats and got to liking "Peaches En Regalia." Of course, Jimi Hendrix's "Fire" and "Foxey Lady" were two of her favorites as well...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> "Truckdriver Divorce" and the insanity that follows.


 That is a crazy solo. I forget what tune it was extracted from? Them Or Us was the first Zappa album I bought on CD 30 years ago.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

starthrower said:


> Overeducated shitheads? What are you talking about? And as far as the sordid subject matter of some of the rock n roll songs are concerned, I doubt FZ sat around dreaming up this stuff. It was usually related to an everyday matter, and life on the road. And if it made Frank laugh, he would immortalize it in a song. He didn't sit around reading classic literature and poetry for lyrical inspiration. St Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast is not only poking fun at the Catholic Church, but some of the references are related to a goofy American TV commercial for Imperial Margarine. Stuff like this is lost on a European audience. And other songs (Andy) can be more difficult to interpret, as Simon Prentis expounds on in the essay I posted.


HARRY! ... HARRY, I used to think you were merely an OVER-EDUCATED ****-HEAD, but now that I finally .. 
from 'Harry as a boy' (Thingfish).

Did I say Zappa was dreaming it up? I think I don't understand your reply.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Casebearer said:


> .
> 
> Did I say Zappa was dreaming it up? I think I don't understand your reply.


No, you didn't. And I wasn't responding directly to you concerning that particular comment. But responding in general to casual listeners who think FZ was very weird based on some of the lyrics.

I resisted purchasing a copy of Thingfish for almot 30 years. I finally did buy the CD last year, but I haven't really gotten into it too deeply yet.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Why is there no selection for 'I don't like any of the above' , or indeed FZ is a boring self opinionated pratt.


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

starthrower said:


> I resisted purchasing a copy of Thingfish for almot 30 years. I finally did buy the CD last year, but I haven't really gotten into it too deeply yet.


I've yet to procure Thingfish. Admittedly, I only bought Absolutely Free for the first time this month, and though I was familiar with some of the tracks having owned Mothermania, it was also the first time I've ever heard it. I've also never heard Joe's Garage in its entirety, but based off what I've heard, I don't care to (it's not bad, but I'm not all that into the aesthetic - I also didn't much care for You Are What You Is the one time I listened to it). Sheik Yerbouti too, I only really know "Wild Love" for its inclusion on Quaudiophiliac (which I've yet to hear in surround sound, sadly...). 
I've found that I have a strange aversion to a lot of post-'75 material. I like some of it, but the bands from then on felt less authentic, and more like cover bands that happened to have the real Zappa leading them (I understand that is probably a controversial statement...). I feel like I'd have preferred to have watched those shows rather than listen to them, probably because there seemed to be less of an instrumental focus. And Tommy Mars' keys...what a great player, but some of those brass synths sound pretty poorly dated...

On another note, I listened to the first disc of the new 200 Motels yesterday - I enjoyed it a lot more when I went to see it live at the Royal Festival Hall. The music is great, but I could do without a great deal of the unnecessary Faux-and-Eddie imitator dialogue. I love Zappa's humour, but I'd love the option to hear the music WITHOUT the silly vocals, because jokes get old, especially cheap ones - music doesn't (I understand that Zappa's choice to graffiti on this great orchestral music is a joke in and of itself - but that joke also wears thin). 
I think it's really terrible that the Zubin Mehta 200 Motels Suite wasn't released by Zappa. It only shares SOME of the music, and in different orders, but there are some beautiful fragments in that performance that didn't ever seem to appear anywhere else - and it was pure, unmitigated music, with the band playing occasional interludes. And there's a tape cut in one of the tracks in the only available recording! It's tragic!



Polyphemus said:


> Why is there no selection for 'I don't like any of the above' , or indeed FZ is a boring self opinionated pratt.


I imagine because Eddie wasn't anticipating some bore imposing themselves and asserting their oh-so-important opinion...


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

I imagine because Eddie wasn't anticipating some bore imposing themselves and asserting their oh-so-important opinion...[/QUOTE]

What a typically stupid and aggressive response from 'dedicated fan'. To describe me as a bore is both stupid and facile, you don't know me. Your idiotic response is typical of the attitude that anyone who disagrees with your particular point of view is guilty of an almost criminal act.

Being of an independent frame of mind I confess to being guilty of such dreadful criminal acts. For instance I never consider the sacred cows that are the Beatles anything other than an average pop band and that any studio innovations were due to George Martin who got his studio licks from Walter Legge, and the fact that Eric Clapton wasn't actually God or even the best rock guitarist around.

I could state other crimes of which I am undoubtedly guilty like a loathing of opera and oratorio but allow me to remind you that as we live in a democracy I am allowed my opinion and also allowed to express it. I never claimed that my opinion was important any more than i consider your stilted outpourings to be of any significance.

Both are, whether you like it or not, opinions.

I found your opinion of my post both offensive and ill mannered in the extreme but no matter it is only your opinion which in the grand scheme of things is is of no import.


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

Polyphemus said:


> I found your opinion of my post both offensive and ill mannered in the extreme but no matter it is only your opinion which in the grand scheme of things is is of no import.


I don't care if you don't like Zappa, and frankly (no pun intended...), I didn't bother to read that tirade in the middle of your post. I made my comment because your original post added nothing to the discussion, which is what I found objectionable.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2016)

Polyphemus said:


> Why is there no selection for 'I don't like any of the above' , or indeed FZ is a boring self opinionated pratt.


Well....I guess this thread is for fans, not the detractors.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2016)

@ Polyphemus

Your opinions of no import seem identical to my opinions of no import!


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

If you didn't bother to read my 'tirade' how in gods name do you know it was a tirade. 
To say that my initial comment added nothing to the discussion is once again based on your own bias. FZ's record sales clearly indicate that vast swathes of the record buying public feel as I do. 
That you find my opinion not to your taste is of course your right as I do yours and claim the same right.
What I found objectionable was your out of hand dismissal of opinions contrary to your own in such offensive language.

I can only conclude that like most zealots you have no tolerance for any opinion other than your own.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

dogen said:


> Well....I guess this thread is for fans, not the detractors.


Vive la difference


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

Polyphemus said:


> If you didn't bother to read my 'tirade' how in gods name do you know it was a tirade.
> To say that my initial comment added nothing to the discussion is once again based on your own bias. FZ's record sales clearly indicate that vast swathes of the record buying public feel as I do.
> That you find my opinion not to your taste is of course your right as I do yours and claim the same right.
> What I found objectionable was your out of hand dismissal of opinions contrary to your own in such offensive language.
> ...


I skimmed it to find it was some bizarre froth that somehow got onto the Beatles or something... it seemed irrelevant, so I didn't pay it any more attention than that.
I know people don't like Zappa, and I don't care that they don't! I don't like Mozart, but I don't ram it down people's throats. I just don't see what kind of discussion you hoped to initiate with your original comment, other than the boring and inevitable "Zappa's GREAT for THIS reason!", "NO! Zappa's a CHARLATAN for THIS reason!" back and forth. You don't like Zappa, whatever, I get it, and I could have lived quite happily without knowing that of a person I have never and probably will never meet...


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

****** said:


> I skimmed it to find it was some bizarre froth that somehow got onto the Beatles or something... it seemed irrelevant, so I didn't pay it any more attention than that.
> 
> Well skimmed Sir.
> 
> ...


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

I think you're still missing my point quite spectacularly. Let me put it like this: if I was to see a thread entitled 'Favourite Mozart Symphony', I would assume that the discussion was aimed at those who were familiar with and liked Mozart's symphonies. So I would either reply discussing what I felt to be redeeming elements of a Mozart symphony I was familiar with, or I would not reply at all - because I'd have nothing of value to contribute, as so far, you haven't. I wouldn't just decide to enter the thread and boldly declare how bad I think Mozart is; that would merely serve to antagonise and at best would reduce the discussion to why everyone else likes Mozart vs why I don't. And that diverges spectacularly from the original discussion, which is for people familiar with the repertoire and enthused enough by it to discuss it, not for people who just want to make vague and general claims about how much they don't like the man and his music. So far you have offered nothing that isn't boring, insipid and irrelevant. Please return to the discussion if you have some input regarding the original point of discussion, rather than degrading the topic to 'I don't like Zappa, and I want everyone to know' - because before your ever so valuable interjection, that wasn't the discussion at all..,


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Florestan said:


> One short Zappa song that I really like is titled, "Evelyn, a Modified Dog."
> 
> When I looked it up I saw that it is on the album, One Size Fits All. Now every song on that album is familiar, so it appears that I must have owned that album also.
> 
> But I am curious why One Size Fits All is listed twice in the poll.


My law school roommate was a true Zappa fanatic with every LP imaginable, and Evelyn, A Modified Dog does stand out in my memory. Also, the Persuasions' interesting cover of The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing. And on an LP entitled The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band Part 1, a cover of Help I'm A Rock done in Jan and Dean surf rock style.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Your squirming is becoming quite amusing. Your assumption that because I have found Mr Z's work to be at best uninspiring somehow precludes me from commenting on his output. How boring this forum would be if we only chose to agree with each other and that debate was stifled because one has a tendency to overreact.
The simple truth of this discussion is quite simply that you chose to go on a ill mannered and rude offensive condemning me for offering a contrary view to your own. What you suggest is ludicrous beyond belief that all but the true believers are forbidden from commenting on a particular topic be it Mozart or Zappa. Buried in my vinyl vaults are the first 5 or 6 Zappa/Mothers albums never to see the light of day again because they did not please me. 
Simply put you saw a contribution in the topic which you did not like and as I have previously stated you reacted in a rude and offensive manner.
As you are undoubtedly an avid and dedicated Z fan I respect your right to defend him, but certainly not at the cost of being called a bore by someone who does not know me or as you have said have never met (God forbid). If you presume to assume that I am a bore because I don't like Z then I can only suspect you of having a closed mind and a restricted view of the freedom of thought. The mind boggles at what your attitude to a topic on freedom of speech or the press would be.
Simply put you were wrong to attack my views on the the Topic about the Poll, i refer you to all of Nerefids Polls which offer the choice I proffered.
I did simply ask for another option to be put to the poll after all.


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

There are only so many times I can make the same point, and at this point, I am as big a problem as you, so here it is, as succinctly as possible:
I don't care that you don't like Zappa, and I'm not questioning your right to voice that opinion, never once said or implied that I am. I am, however, calling into question the relevance of your 'contribution' to the topic at hand. Literally the only relevance your remark had to the original topic was the word 'Zappa', but as I said, the conversation specifically addresses Zappa's repertoire, not whether or not you like him or his music generally. Either talk about the music or don't say anything at all, but vague remarks like 'Zappa was a prat' are too vapid to even be considered relevant to the topic.

And I'm sure you're an ok man, but if you're hurt by being called a bore, don't act like one. Make a contribution, not a hollow judgement...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

****** said:


> Make a contribution, not a hollow judgement...


Yes, please! This is getting ugly and borish. Polyphemus has made it clear he doesn't care for Zappa. That's fine. He also stated that he filed away the first half dozen Mothers albums because they did not please him, but offered no musical/lyrical examples of what displeased him. And has made up his mind to never revisit any of Zappa's work for a re-assessment that might confirm or contradict his initial judgements.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I can't see many votes for _Joe's Garage_ flooding the poll but of the substantial _dramatis personæ_ featured over what was six sides of vinyl The Central Scrutinizer has to be one of Uncle Frank's greatest creations.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I was going to say that his live albums have the edge over his studio output then I remembered Weasels, Rats, Joe's Garage, Thingfish and loads of other great studio albums he made. There is nothing in Zappa's output I dislike but there are obviously things I play more than others e.g. YCDTOSA, Roxy and Elsewhere, Make a Jazz Noise Here, The Best Band You Never Heard, Sheikh Yerbouti, Apostrophe, Broadway the Hard Way and all the Shut up and Play Yer Guitar Albums. Favourite guitar solo has to be A Watermelon in Easter Hay.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Good to see Weasels polling so well one of my favorites


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

starthrower said:


> No, you didn't. And I wasn't responding directly to you concerning that particular comment. But responding in general to casual listeners who think FZ was very weird based on some of the lyrics.
> 
> I resisted purchasing a copy of Thingfish for almot 30 years. I finally did buy the CD last year, but I haven't really gotten into it too deeply yet.


'Overeducated shitheads' (with the peculair behaviour that comes from being overeducated) are an important part of Zappa's universe and worldview.

I don't understand why you would resist buying Thingfish as it's a great album that is an essential part of his conceptual continuity universe. You also seems to miss out on essential Zappa concepts and quotes by not listening to it.

Maybe better not quote me when you don't go into my questions and just reply in general.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> I was going to say that his live albums have the edge over his studio output then I remembered Weasels, Rats, Joe's Garage, Thingfish and loads of other great studio albums he made. There is nothing in Zappa's output I dislike but there are obviously things I play more than others e.g. YCDTOSA, Roxy and Elsewhere, Make a Jazz Noise Here, The Best Band You Never Heard, Sheikh Yerbouti, Apostrophe, Broadway the Hard Way and all the Shut up and Play Yer Guitar Albums. Favourite guitar solo has to be A Watermelon in Easter Hay.


We seem to play the same kind of Zappa albums. In addition to yours I also play Civilization Part III, You are what you is, Joe's Garage, One Size fits all and Uncle Meat quite often. And I might add Thingfish...


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

Casebearer said:


> We seem to play the same kind of Zappa albums. In addition to yours I also play Civilization Part III, You are what you is, Joe's Garage, One Size fits all and Uncle Meat quite often. And I might add Thingfish...


Civilization Part III is great, and even though I rarely play it, I think it may actually be my favourite, in that it feels the most important. It harks back to his early solo career, but is so different to anything else I've heard from him - it sounds so distinctly Zappa, yet it sounds even more intense. I can hear his orchestral style in there, but with the synclavier there to make impossible tasks possible for him, it just seems to take his style to its extreme - all the layers and busy, complex little passages just seem more intense than ever. But it's a very occasional listen for me, I either want to commit 2 hours to the whole thing, or I don't want to bother at all, I don't find it as rewarding as a casual listen.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Casebearer said:


> I don't understand why you would resist buying Thingfish as it's a great album that is an essential part of his conceptual continuity universe. You also seems to miss out on essential Zappa concepts and quotes by not listening to it.


The music is the most important element to get into and stay interested in an album, and Thingfish doesn't really do it for me. But I haven't given up on it. I'll revisit it again.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

****** said:


> Civilization Part III is great, and even though I rarely play it, I think it may actually be my favourite, in that it feels the most important. It harks back to his early solo career, but is so different to anything else I've heard from him - it sounds so distinctly Zappa, yet it sounds even more intense. I can hear his orchestral style in there, but with the synclavier there to make impossible tasks possible for him, it just seems to take his style to its extreme - all the layers and busy, complex little passages just seem more intense than ever. But it's a very occasional listen for me, I either want to commit 2 hours to the whole thing, or I don't want to bother at all, I don't find it as rewarding as a casual listen.


I also listen to this one very rarely. I bought it as soon as it was released, which is about 20 years ago now. Sure, it contains cutting edge music, and biting social and political commentary, but it's a bit too dark for my taste. I was never really able to embrace and enjoy this album. I actually enjoy Jazz From Hell a lot more, even if the technology is less sophisticated.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Zappa said that "Civilization Phase III" was a continuation of WOIIFTM and Lumpy Gravy, which I find fascinating. 

The darkness? Yes, there is a certain sense of paranoia expressed by the talking characters, a sense that Zappa perhaps identified with, as the creator of "Who Are the Brain Police," the Central Scrutinizer, "I'm the Slime," and more. 

What was this paranoia? It was presumably not drug-induced, as Zappa did not do drugs. What is your guess, as die-hard Zappa fanatics, who loved the man and his musical world?

I think it has to do with society, and the way citizens are 'assimilated' into it. Zappa was pursuing a non-conformist and singular course in his quest to create his own musical vision. This vision was probably considered to be 'dangerous' or at least subversive to the 'powers that be,' whoever and whatever guise they appeared in.

I'm reminded of William S. Burroughs, who just lumped all the various 'agencies' and powers into one convenient artistic metaphor, such as his Naked Lunch typewriters who were at once horrific insects, symbols of his own guilt, and government agents. See the movie, read "Assimilate" by Reed, and read Burroughs. His fiction is really not fiction, but a blend of sociology, art, anthropology, and more.

Zappa's bogus arrest was probably the first indication to him that "he was considered to be trouble." Note also the subsequent arrests, perhaps set-ups as well, of some of his bandmates, after his passing.

Comments? Cliches? Criticisms?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> What was this paranoia? It was presumably not drug-induced, as Zappa did not do drugs. What is your guess, as die-hard Zappa fanatics, who loved the man and his musical world?
> 
> I think it has to do with society, and the way citizens are 'assimilated' into it. Zappa was pursuing a non-conformist and singular course in his quest to create his own musical vision. This vision was probably considered to be 'dangerous' or at least subversive to the 'powers that be,' whoever and whatever guise they appeared in.


FZ was a child of the 50s. Communist paranoia, McCarthy witch hunts. He always had a strong mistrust of authority figures, and vehemently resisted conformist pressures and the herd mentality. And that extended to the art and music world as well as social, political, and working environments.

He was always cynical, but there was a spirit of cautious optimism in his outlook during the sixties, which pretty much evaporated by the early to mid seventies. He spoke of infiltration tactics as a way of purging government of stooges, corruption, and incompetence, but it just never materialized. If there were 30 or 40 million other people with his charisma and uncompromising attitude, it may have been possible, but most of us need our jobs to pay the bills, so we keep our "nose to the grindstone" and our mouths shut.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

starthrower said:


> ...If there were 30 or 40 million other people with his charisma and uncompromising attitude, it may have been possible, but most of us need our jobs to pay the bills, so we keep our "nose to the grindstone" and our mouths shut.


Do your job, and do it right
Life's a ball! TV here tonight…
Do ya love it, do ya hate it
There it is the way you made it,
Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

Maybe you should live with yo' mama….


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> Maybe you should live with yo' mama….


If one becomes too sharp a thorn in the flesh of societal norms, one may find oneself disenfranchised to the point of having to move back in with mom and dad. Unless you happen to be a genius artist who can get away with saying whatever is on your mind.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Overnite Sensation and Sheik Yerbouti are my faves.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

pretty amasing spread of votes - even Fillmore East hey, good going people


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Eddie, have you tasted the Austrailian Yellow Snow?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Do your job, and do it right
> Life's a ball! TV here tonight…
> Do ya love it, do ya hate it
> There it is the way you made it,
> ...


Nasty nasty nasty

Zappa did some great lyrics and songs in the 60's - love brown shoes but playing in at 120dB at home makes you wonder what the neighbours might think (His wile's attending an orchid show
She squealed for a week to get him to go), but what the hell Zappa would not care free speach for all!


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

starthrower said:


> Eddie, have you tasted the Austrailian Yellow Snow?


Is that the one from One Shot Deal (been a while since I played that album, so not sure if it's on that one)? I think there's a more comprehensive version of that '73 arrangement on Crux of the Biscuit, which includes the frantic intro, the Rollo Interior section, the fast repeat of St. Alfonzo, plus the "Join the March and Eat My Starch" intro to Father O'blivion. Although the One Shot Deal version has the advantage of being a better mix.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Eddie, have you tasted the Austrailian Yellow Snow?


Utubing now - didn't know of it, have seen/ heard some of the boots of Oz stuff- thanks for the hint.

love FZ/OZ brought it when it first came out, particularly the Oz Norman Gunston episode refer below for more Zappa/ Gunston madness.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Florestan said:


> One short Zappa song that I really like is titled, "Evelyn, a Modified Dog."
> 
> When I looked it up I saw that it is on the album, One Size Fits All. Now every song on that album is familiar, so it appears that I must have owned that album also.
> 
> But I am curious why One Size Fits All is listed twice in the poll.


Lots of parody on that album. Inca Roads parodies Chick Corea's Return to Forever Band. I thought Evelyn was a David Bowie parody. Not sure why.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Utubing now - didn't know of it, have seen/ heard some of the boots of Oz stuff- thanks for the hint.


There's a 20 minute live version from the Sydney '73 show on the new Crux Of The Biscuit CD.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

starthrower said:


> There's a 20 minute live version from the Sydney '73 show on the new Crux Of The Biscuit CD.


Thanks - will have to get it

there are lots of boots here from those shows in Oz from '73 too


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

I just remembered that between February and march, Filmore East was the one rock album I was listening to (the only one I felt like playing) and I had it on heavy repeat. I absolutely love that version of Willy The Pimp! (of course Beefheart's version is great). Talk about your..... :lol: 

"We are not groupies! You better understand that!.. I told Robert
Planet, I told Elton John, I told all those big guys..."
and many hilarious, "inappropriate" quotes about groupies and so on :tiphat:


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

starthrower said:


> The music is the most important element to get into and stay interested in an album, and Thingfish doesn't really do it for me. But I haven't given up on it. I'll revisit it again.


Please do. In my opinion it is somewhat like 200 Motels. Not all of it is maybe that much interesting from a musical point of view, although it has great pieces with beautiful harmonies like Brown Moses, The White Boy Troubles and different versions of older material, but then again it is a parody on Broadway musicals. So it should be listened to differently as a work of art in it's own right. I find it quite addictive.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Finally got a copy of 200 Motel The Suites- very hard to Find in Oz.
Went to JB HiFi in Adelaide Oz and they worked that some guy had ordered a copy (special import) in there Elizabeth Store thinking he had ordered the original album and did not pick it up as was not what he wanted. Net result lucky me got it for $37 Oz bucks yeah  now have release 101.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Casebearer said:


> Please do. In my opinion it is somewhat like 200 Motels. Not all of it is maybe that much interesting from a musical point of view, although it has great pieces with beautiful harmonies like Brown Moses, The White Boy Troubles and different versions of older material, but then again it is a parody on Broadway musicals. So it should be listened to differently as a work of art in it's own right. I find it quite addictive.


And the small interpolation of Amnerika!! 
Then there is the Torchem Never Stops and the briefcase drama at the end. It's certainly not an album you can forget easily!!


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Finally got a copy of 200 Motel The Suites- very hard to Find in Oz.
> Went to JB HiFi in Adelaide Oz and they worked that some guy had ordered a copy (special import) in there Elizabeth Store thinking he had ordered the original album and did not pick it up as was not what he wanted. Net result lucky me got it for $37 Oz bucks yeah  now have release 101.


Would that be around 25 euro's? I hardly ever buy one of these new Zappa releases after his death but I'm tempted lately, especially by this thread. I see The Suites cost around 20 euro over here. Same with The Crux of the Biscuit.

I've checked bol.com which is maybe a Dutch version of Amazon (which is not that big over here). I see there are many, many release on their site with titles that I've often not heard of before like:
- Dutch Courage (2 cd live in Rotterdam 1980); 11,78 euro ( have that concert on tape by the way)
- The New Maternity (1 cd, VPRO Radio Piknik 1970); 11,75 euro
- The Muffin Man Goes to College feat Captain B. (2 cd Rhode Island 1975); 11,15 euro
- Finer Moments (2 cd); 12,99 euro
- Mastered Turnip Cyclophony (1 cd); 12,65 euro
- Road Tapes #3 (2 cd Minneapolis); 19,49 euro

Road Tapes I know of of course, it's issued by Zappa Records, but the rest of it is issued by companies I've never heard of like Chrome Dreams, Sonic Boom, Outher Us, Other Int Universal, PhD Music.

I thought all this new stuff was issued by the Zappa Family Trust. Does anybody know about these other issues, could I buy them safely from a sound quality perspective?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> Would that be around 25 euro's? I hardly ever buy one of these new Zappa releases after his death but I'm tempted lately, especially by this thread. I see The Suites cost around 20 euro over here. Same with The Crux of the Biscuit.
> 
> I've checked bol.com which is maybe a Dutch version of Amazon (which is not that big over here). I see there are many, many release on their site with titles that I've often not heard of before like:
> - Dutch Courage (2 cd live in Rotterdam 1980); 11,78 euro ( have that concert on tape by the way)
> ...


25 Euro is what you get from the bottom end of the world lol, my copy is a ZFT and sounds quality is great and very funny, is pretty much a straight take on the original album, got a nice French pressing of that - makes for interesting driving in my Toyota Hilux 4wd


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Well Eddie, president of the jury, isn't it time to make up the final vote? On this one that is.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

One Size Fits All seems to have the popular vote but Uncle Meat wins for me


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Finer Moments, and Road Tapes are legitimate releases. The others on your list are bootlegs. I like the Road Tapes series, even if the fidelity is sub par. Finer Moments is ok, but not something I couldn't live without.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Finer Moments- have a copy on vinyl and is a good listen in a historical context


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> One Size Fits All seems to have the popular vote but Uncle Meat wins for me


Haha, you are quite a subjective president of the jury. I can live with the popular vote for once.

This is the top 5 of Zappa/Mothers albums TC-wise:
1. One Size Fits All (10 votes)
2. Uncle Meat and Hot Rats (ex aequo; 8 votes)
4. Weasels ripped my flesh and Grand Wazoo (ex aequo; 6 votes)

Will you start another Zappa Poll?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> Haha, you are quite a subjective president of the jury. I can live with the popular vote for once.
> 
> This is the top 5 of Zappa/Mothers albums TC-wise:
> 1. One Size Fits All (10 votes)
> ...


Oh Well I tried to pump for Uncle Meat its my fav and as president I make it compulsory listening, in fact all radio stations must play it once a day

New poll mmmmmmm I'm thinking, maybe best Zappa offshoot band album?


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

starthrower said:


> Finer Moments, and Road Tapes are legitimate releases. The others on your list are bootlegs. I like the Road Tapes series, even if the fidelity is sub par. Finer Moments is ok, but not something I couldn't live without.


Thanks. I like the Road tapes too. I might try the VPRO Radio Piknik recording though because the VPRO is and has always been the top of the bill broadcasting Radio and TV station in The Netherlands.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Oh Well I tried to pump for Uncle Meat its my fav and as president I make it compulsory listening, in fact all radio stations must play it once a day
> 
> New poll mmmmmmm I'm thinking, maybe best Zappa offshoot band album?


And rightly so. Just after you enjoyed One Size Fits All.

I'd prefer continuing with a poll on Zappa's remaining 70th's albums but hey I'm no president here. Maybe I'll learn something new...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> And rightly so. Just after you enjoyed One Size Fits All.
> 
> I'd prefer continuing with a poll on Zappa's remaining 70th's albums but hey I'm no president here. Maybe I'll learn something new...


70 and counting hey


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## motoboy (May 19, 2008)

Florestan said:


> One short Zappa song that I really like is titled, "Evelyn, a Modified Dog."
> .


I named my old race bike "Evelyn, The Modified Dog." 
It was an old '76 BMW R75/6. Later, after I heavily massaged the engine, carbs, frame and suspension I renamed it "Evelyn The Dog Having Undergone Further Modification." I thought I was so cute.

I had another race bike, a forest green EX500 that I named "A Little Green Rosetta" but everyone in the pits called it "The Green Bean."

Anyway, "Stage 3" is the best. 
No wait...Hot Rats

No, One Size.

Maybe half of Thing fish?

Läther, most definitely.

Final answer: Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I think you were cute also


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Still _Uncle Meat_ for me


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I remember seeing some c.1968 Mothers footage and Zappa was wearing a pair of straight-looking brown shoes. Was this one of his in-jokes or am I over-thinking?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> I remember seeing some c.1968 Mothers footage and Zappa was wearing a pair of straight-looking brown shoes. Was this one of his in-jokes or am I over-thinking?


I would say it was an in joke- brown shoes would never make it for Zappa


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Uncle Meat........


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