# Underrated or little-know operas that you like.



## OldFashionedGirl (Jul 21, 2013)

What operas do you like that are little-know or you considered are underrated? And also what operas do you think deserve to have more recognition?


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Die Tote Stadt by Erich Wolfgang Korngold might fit this category. Aside from the ubiquitous Mariettes Lied, I think the opera itself has been somewhat underrated and deserved more than the one (afaik) recorded version that was available for a long time. I suspect that this might be changing as I've learned that there is a new recording out there.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I think Suor Angelica is a very beautiful, moving opera. Unfortunately my opinion is not shared by many!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Revenant said:


> Die Tote Stadt by Erich Wolfgang Korngold might fit this category. Aside from the ubiquitous Mariettes Lied, I think the opera itself has been somewhat underrated and deserved more than the one (afaik) recorded version that was available for a long time. I suspect that this might be changing as I've learned that there is a new recording out there.


My favourite CD recording:










And the DVD that I think might have pushed this gorgeous opera into my current top ten:


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Mariette's lied is not nearly as nice as the big baritone song a bit later on (can't remember the name off the top of my head). Big ups to Suor Angelica also - one of my favs

Before this thread really kicks off: 

I've recently been impressed by Die Gezeichneten by Franz Schreker which is full of lovely moments
Abduction from the Seraglio is so delightful - easily as delightful as Cosi and Don G (but probably not quite as amazing as Figaro)
The fact that list of top operas don't always include Ravel's L'enfant et les sortilèges means that it's criminally underrated


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

dgee said:


> The fact that list of top operas don't always include Ravel's L'enfant et les sortilèges means that it's criminally underrated


If this doesn't convince people, they are made of stone:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

dgee said:


> Mariette's lied is not nearly as nice as the big baritone song a bit later on (can't remember the name off the top of my head).


"Mein Sehnen, mein Wähnen" - I think it trumps Mariette's Lied as well.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I love this opera. And this is a great recording of it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I was in the audience at Frankfurt at the time of the recording of Vogt's and Weigel's version of _Die Tote Stadt_. It was a very nice evening, with Vogt at his best in the role of Paul. I rate, however, the classical Leinsdorf's recording and the one of Runnicles at Szalburg just as high in my preferences.

I also equally love the two songs that are part of the fiction, Marietta's and Pierrot's. The duet "Glück das mir verblieb" is wonderfully inspired, and sickly romantic. This is a great version, by Anton Dermota and Hilde Zadek:






"Mein Sehnen, mein Wähnen" is also a great piece, and one of the staples of baritone's repertory in German. This splendid version is by Karl Hammes in 1930, in my favorite tempo, and with a wonderful effect by the eight sopranos choir in the background (starting at 2:18):






However, if I were to select only one fragment of the opera, I would probably go for Paul's monologue in the First Act, just after meeting Frank. We can hear the rendition of Torsten Kerl in a recent production:






We have a thread devoted to _Die Tote Stadt_ here at TC:

http://www.talkclassical.com/15606-second-thread-opera-depth.html


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm disappointed to enter thread about 'little known" operas and read so many familiar titles - Die Tote Stadt? I saw it mentioned so often ever since I started to read opera forums here and elsewhere. It appears to be among sub-favourites for lots of people. And Suor Angelica? Come on, it's Puccini. 

I may complain about that because I'm mean geezer who likes to complain or maybe because it's sad how people have their circle of interest with circumference reaching no further than to operas such as these and yet they think they're really deep into the subject. With such notion they feel no need to dig further and the truely little known and underrated operas remain as they are.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I love Korngold's _Die Tote Stadt_, Schreker's _Die Gezeichneten_, Puccini's _Suor Angelica_, Ravel's _L'enfant et les sortilèges_... and certainly Humperdinck's _Hansel and Gretel_... which I have three recordings of... but I must agree with Aramis; these are surely not "little-known" operas. I suspect most of Vivaldi's operas and quite a few of Handel's are less well known than almost any of these works.

Some "less well known" operas that I like include:

Daniel Catán's _Rappaccini's Daughter_ (based on a tale by Hawthorne re-imagined by Octavio Paz):










Also by Daniel Catán is the marvelous _Florencia en el Amazonas_:










Both are Neo-Romantic in style and suggest elements of Puccini, Debussy, Richard Strauss, Korngold, Stravinsky, Ravel, and Berg.

Schubert most likely would have eventually become an astonishing operatic composer considering his mastery in composing for the voice, and the strength of his late orchestral works. Unfortunately, as a largely unknown composer, he was forced to work with the most mediocre (and worse) librettos. The resulting efforts are uneven... with brilliant passages... and those that are less than brilliant. Perhaps his strongest effort, outside of his Rosamunde... which is more of a play with music than an opera... is _Fierrabras_:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Another opera worthy of exploration is surely Paer's _Leonora_... based on the same French libretto that the libretto for Beethoven's _Fidelio_ was based on. There are more than a few marvelous passages... indeed it is quite good... and has been afforded a recording with some rather talented singers:










Johann Strauss II is known for his overtures almost as much as his waltzes... yet only _Die Fledermaus_ seems to have remained in the regular repertoire. This is a loss considering that both _Der Zigeunerbaron_ (The Gypsy Baron) and _Eine Nacht in Venedig_ (A Night in Venice) have much to recommend them... including brilliant post-War recordings with Erich Kunz, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf and Otto Ackermann:










Yet even more obscure is _Simplicius_ based on the darkly comic 17th century German novel _Simplicius Simplicissimus_ by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen set during the dark days of the 30 Years War:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I only discovered Enescu's _Oedipe_ recently... but it is every bit worthy of hearing:










Some operas SHOULDN'T be virtually unknown... but they really are. I have rarely ever heard mention of Stravinsky's _Le Rossignol_:










... yet it is truly a marvelous piece.

Bartók's _Duke Bluebeard's Castle_ is an Expressionist masterpiece worthy of being placed alongside Strauss' _Salome_ and _Elektra_ and Berg's _Lulu_... but again it is rarely mentioned... in spite of a magnificent recording with the husband and wife team of Ludwig and Berry:


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Other operas that SHOULDN'T be little known include almost any by Berlioz... who seems sadly underrated by many. I would especially draw attention to his Béatrice et Bénédict:










With the exception of _Orphée et Euridice/Orfeo ed Eurydice_ and perhaps _Alceste_, Gluck is another composer whose operas are grossly underrated.

_Philémon & Baucis, Iphigénie en Aulide, Iphigénie en Tauride, Ezio, Armide, and Paride ed Elena..._










... as well as _Orphée et Euridice/Orfeo ed Eurydice_ and _Alceste_, are all worth exploring... especially by anyone who admires the operas of Handel and/or Mozart as they represent the transition from Handel and Baroque opera toward Mozart's classicism. Not only are they historically important... but they are actually damn fine operas.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

A truly delicious, sumptuous French bon-bon is Jacques Ibert's _Persée et Andromède_ which turns the original classical legend upon its head in true French, comic/absurd style:


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I actually really enjoyed Schubert's Fierrabras. He isn't really known as an opera composer and his operas never got much recognition. It may not be as polished as some others, but it still has some decent music and a good story!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*The last savage*

Back in 2011 my wife and I attended the Sante Fe Opera. They staged a performance of the _Last Savage_, a little known rarely performed opera buffa by Menotti. It was fantastic and one of the funniest operas we had ever seen. :lol:


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I absolutely love Bellini's I PURITANI. While I'm aware that it's marginally in the standard repertoire and that most people consider it musically sublime, I also think it's underrated as drama. But I remember reading once that the trouble with it (and with Bellini's operas in general) is that the drama is more "internal" than "external." Unlike, say, LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR, I PURITANI doesn't quite have an equal balance of "public" and "private" scenes. Most of it is about the characters' feelings, and this can be hard to "put across" for an audience.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ you know I like you, but your post made me remember that little known opera I love - Le Nozze di Figaro


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Oh. I Puritani, yeah.

Let me post some Moniuszko to wipe out the shame.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Aramis said:


> ... Let me post some Moniuszko to wipe out the shame.


Been trying to get the Semkow Halka which I understand is the best. Cheapest I can find at the moment is £99; will keep looking.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

sospiro said:


> Been trying to get the Semkow Halka which I understand is the best. Cheapest I can find at the moment is £99; will keep looking.


You might also want to look for Robert Satanowski's recording which shares some important cast members with the one by Semkow as alternative, I can't say you will make much worse choice by getting it - if you can't find Semkow in reasonable price right now, I suggest you save it for later, when you will find decent occassion.










http://www.amazon.co.uk/Halka-Stani...d=1381689220&sr=8-1&keywords=halka+satanowski - is £14.19 fine?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, Bellini have some operas that are less frequented than Puritani. For instance, _Beatrice di Tenda_. This is a recording complete in youtube, from a live performance at Naples's San Carlo, back in 1962, with Joan Sutherland singing Beatrice. The sound is not very good, but Ms. Sutherland's performance is great:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Aramis said:


> You might also want to look for Robert Satanowski's recording which shares some important cast members with the one by Semkow as alternative, I can't say you will make much worse choice by getting it - if you can't find Semkow in reasonable price right now, I suggest you save it for later, when you will find decent occassion.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Halka-Stani...d=1381689220&sr=8-1&keywords=halka+satanowski - is £14.19 fine?


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll order this version. I had read the review which gave it only one star but I trust your judgement.

That aria you posted was exquisite & can't wait to hear the whole opera.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

sospiro said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I'll order this version. I had read the review which gave it only one star but I trust your judgement.


I feel like sitting on the pins now, afraid to break the trust and cost you £14.19 paid for disappontment!

Now, what I really belive to be cause of the 1-star rating is the live performance quality which might hurt some audiophile. The orchestra doesn't blast you with wide stereo sound, that is true. It is also true that you can hear footsteps of dancers during the ballet scene. It is also very much in favour to Semkow recording to mention presence of the great bass singer, Bernard Ładysz, not equaled by his colleague from Satanowski CD.

Still, the performance itself, especially by singers, reaches highest quality at times and the sound, all in all, isn't any worse than on many famous live/mono opera recordings that are acknowledged as reference CDs. So I trust you will not regret trusting me and really enjoy this beautiful opera in this version.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Aramis said:


> I feel like sitting on the pins now, afraid to break the trust and cost you £14.19 paid for disappontment!


£14.19 won't break the bank & I won't blame you if I don't like it but I'm sure I will!



Aramis said:


> Now, what I really belive to be cause of the 1-star rating is the live performance quality which might hurt some audiophile. The orchestra doesn't blast you with wide stereo sound, that is true. It is also true that you can hear footsteps of dancers during the ballet scene. It is also very much in favour to Semkow recording to mention presence of the great bass singer, Bernard Ładysz, not equaled by his colleague from Satanowski CD.
> 
> Still, the performance itself, especially by singers, reaches highest quality at times and the sound, all in all, isn't any worse than on many famous live/mono opera recordings that are acknowledged as reference CDs. So I trust you will not regret trusting me and really enjoy this beautiful opera in this version.


I expect I'll be able to get a cheaper Semkow version if I wait. Patience!

And thanks again for the advice.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Well, there could be a difference here between underrated and little-known - Le Rossignol, the Gypsy Baron and Bluebeard's Castle are all well known to me (heck, I've even played two of em and excerpts from the first!) - nut we can probably agree that in our own opinions wea re putting forward operas that we don't thin get their due or are unfairly looked over, relatively speaking

Allow me to add La Clemenza di Tito - you've probably all heard it, annotated the score, bought the t-shirt but shouldn't it get a few more airings than it currently does?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

dgee said:


> Allow me to add La Clemenza di Tito - you've probably all heard it, annotated the score, bought the t-shirt but shouldn't it get a few more airings than it currently does?


It did get a Live in HD broadcast last season. That's quite a massive airing. Good performance too.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Continuing with Moniuszko, here goes an aria from opera outside his "famous" (eh?) two - _Hrabina_ (translated as The Countess). Other than being brilliant bel canto aria, it also differs from the standard subjects of such arias. As she sings it, the countess is standing before the mirror in self-adoration over her looks in new dress and fancies about being worshipped and adored by her guests during the ball that she is soon to host:


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

dgee said:


> Allow me to add La Clemenza di Tito - you've probably all heard it, annotated the score, bought the t-shirt but shouldn't it get a few more airings than it currently does?


guilty as charged, I can recite it from memory  and yes, it should be aired at least once every few months. I certainly do 

however, Caldara's version is as boring as dry paint. Have heard bits of (one of) Hasse's 3 versions and some of Gluck's: both better than Caldara's but not on par with THE Tito. I'm game to hearing the Galuppi and Mycheslyvek or whatever his name was's versions (although probably not once every few months).


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Aramis said:


> I'm disappointed to enter thread about 'little known" operas and read so many familiar titles - Die Tote Stadt? I saw it mentioned so often ever since I started to read opera forums here and elsewhere. It appears to be among sub-favourites for lots of people. And Suor Angelica? Come on, it's Puccini.
> 
> I may complain about that because I'm mean geezer who likes to complain or maybe because it's sad how people have their circle of interest with circumference reaching no further than to operas such as these and yet they think they're really deep into the subject. With such notion they feel no need to dig further and the truely little known and underrated operas remain as they are.


You know, I took no objection to the first paragraph. So you're annoyed that the listed ones aren't true rarities, I've no qualm with that. The latter paragraph bothered me, the extended judgements you try to make about the people who make those choices. "yet they think they're really deep into the subject" which one of us made that claim?? I certainly didn't. There is some opera music I absolutely loved, but I certainly never claimed and superior knowledge. I look forward to exploring more operas down the line, but my "circle of interest" has a circumference that spreads well beyond simply opera. I am also eager to explore more classical and non-classical music, anthropology, art, psychology. Opera is but one of many pursuits


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Sonata said:


> You know, I took no objection to the first paragraph. So you're annoyed that the listed ones aren't true rarities, I've no qualm with that. The latter paragraph bothered me, the extended judgements you try to make about the people who make those choices. "yet they think they're really deep into the subject" which one of us made that claim?? I certainly didn't. There is some opera music I absolutely loved, but I certainly never claimed and superior knowledge. I look forward to exploring more operas down the line, but my "circle of interest" has a circumference that spreads well beyond simply opera. I am also eager to explore more classical and non-classical music, anthropology, art, psychology. Opera is but one of many pursuits


Yes,the point is that you didn't actually ask for rarities but underrated or little known operas. Different from 99% of people have never heard of them really. So as much as I admire St.Lukes' staggering examples they come into the completely unknown I would have thought--but he's like that.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Aramis said:


> I'm disappointed to enter thread about 'little known" operas and read so many familiar titles - Die Tote Stadt? I saw it mentioned so often ever since I started to read opera forums here and elsewhere. It appears to be among sub-favourites for lots of people. And Suor Angelica? Come on, it's Puccini.


I think there's a big difference between little known and little known by oneself. A few years' ago I was 'Carmen' eh don't they make heated hair rollers?














Aramis said:


> I may complain about that because I'm mean geezer who likes to complain or maybe because it's sad how people have their circle of interest with circumference reaching no further than to operas such as these and yet they think they're really deep into the subject. With such notion they feel no need to dig further and the truely little known and underrated operas remain as they are.


I understand what you mean but it's not easy to find stuff. You don't know what you don't know. I've found operas I would never have known about by following singers/conductors & buying their CDs.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

When I listen to a little known opera I usually soon discover why it is little known!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Sonata said:


> "yet they think they're really deep into the subject" which one of us made that claim?? I certainly didn't. There is some opera music I absolutely loved, but I certainly never claimed and superior knowledge. I look forward to exploring more operas down the line, but my "circle of interest" has a circumference that spreads well beyond simply opera. I am also eager to explore more classical and non-classical music, anthropology, art, psychology. Opera is but one of many pursuits


Nobody made such claim directly, but by writing about opera by Puccini or Bellini in thread concerning little-known operas, one obviously assumes that these operas count among hidden gems and if he/she knows and appreciatest them, the deep familiarity with the artform is achieved and there is little need to explore even deeper.

The problem is that, apart from such person being wrong, someone else might enter the thread, see these choices and leave with notion that the attractive and worthwhile operatic repertoire truely ends with operas like _Suor Angelica_. And the harm is done, because if there is thread such as this, it should encourage diving deeper rather than barely going under the surface.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

DavidA's point above is spot on in many cases of music of all types.
But even with Puccini I am surprised at a)" La Rondine " has ten listings in Italian under that title both as CDs and DVDs at Presto. I asked some "normal" people about this and nobody knew of it.What a great pity ! b) "Le Villi" there are four listings and one of those is from 1927.
So there is no reason to dig around in the debris for neglected operas,they are with us in full sight.


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## peeknocker (Feb 14, 2012)

What a strange list. It contains very little that is either underrated or little known.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I just became acquainted with something that might actually be little known and is surely underrated: Purcell's King Arthur. Great, occasionally surprising, tunes.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

Its not very obscure, but I always find myself coming back to Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex, its just a phenomenal work and really moves me. A masterpiece of neo-classicism and eclecticism.

this is the only recordings I can find of this aria, one of Oedipus' best:





it also has a killer chorus that makes your hair stand on end


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Jobis said:


> Its not very obscure, but I always find myself coming back to Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex, its just a phenomenal work and really moves me. A masterpiece of neo-classicism and eclecticism.
> 
> this is the only recordings I can find of this aria, one of Oedipus' best:
> 
> ...


Is that version the original recording in which Jean Cocteau (the librettist) introduces the opera? I listened to that version in vinyl back in 1963.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

Revenant said:


> Is that version the original recording in which Jean Cocteau (the librettist) introduces the opera? I listened to that version in vinyl back in 1963.


I don't think so, that recording may well be on youtube, I just searched for the isolated aria.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Jobis said:


> I don't think so, that recording may well be on youtube, I just searched for the isolated aria.


That first version was pretty good too, but I don't know if it's still commercially available. What a concept: Cocteau had his entire libretto translated into Latin, and Stravinsky set that to music!


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

The mentioning of Oediphe calls for Antigona to be here as well. There is very good opera on this theme by Tommaso Traetta, written in classical style that still has some of baroque period in it:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Revenant said:


> That first version was pretty good too, but I don't know if it's still commercially available. What a concept: Cocteau had his entire libretto translated into Latin, and Stravinsky set that to music!


This is in Latin, and the introduction is done in French by Lambert Wilson:


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I love Luigi Rossi's _Orfeo_, premiered in Paris in 1647. There is a very good recording, conducted by William Christie.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> This is in Latin, and the introduction is done in French by Lambert Wilson:


Does Wilson also use the Cocteau text for the French introduction? Iirc, Cocteau opens with a dramatic "_Spectateur_!...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Revenant said:


> Does Wilson also use the Cocteau text for the French introduction? Iirc, Cocteau opens with a dramatic "_Spectateur_!...


I think it probably is. I've transcribed the first two sentences so you can make up your own mind:

_Spectateur, vous allez entendre une version latine d'Œdipe roi. Afin de vous épargner tout effort d'oreille et de mémoire, et comme l'opéra-oratorio ne conserve des scènes qu'un certain aspect monumental, je vous rappellerai, au fur et à mesure, le drame de Sophocle. _


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

mamascarlatti said:


> I think it probably is. I've transcribed the first two sentences so you can make up your own mind:
> 
> _Spectateur, vous allez entendre une version latine d'Œdipe roi. Afin de vous épargner tout effort d'oreille et de mémoire, et comme l'opéra-oratorio ne conserve des scènes qu'un certain aspect monumental, je vous rappellerai, au fur et à mesure, le drame de Sophocle. _


Yes, that is the perfervid and olimpically hortatory and prescriptive Cocteau text that I remember, alerting the audience that this is an (opera-) oratorio and not an opera, and that the singers will just stand there and sing, not move around nervously.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

I learned about this one while reading a Gilbert & Sullivan joint biography. Could be well-known by some, mostly British music lovers I suppose, but it certainly is not highly rated as an opera, I don't know if deservedly or not as I've never listened to it.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

This is an interesting opera. A few years ago, I attended auditions of a short cycle of "Ivanhoe" operas, including the one above, plus _Il Templario _by Nicolai, the rossinian pastiche _Ivanhoe _and _Der Templer und die Judin_ by Marschner. Both this last opera and _Il Templario_ are really fine pieces, in my view.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Les Troyens.

Sure, it's hardly an obscure one but severely underrated - at least in my neck of the woods where Carmen every season seems like good financial sense.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I quite like Ravel's L'Enfant et les Sortileges


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

A composer I have become familiar with recently is Cavalli. I love his Il Giasone with Christophe Dumaux and Ercole Amante with Luca Pisaroni, and I couldn't get enough of his Elena from the festival of Aix-en-Provence. Favourite scene from the latter: where the handmaiden is lamenting that the princesses have all the fun, being abducted by lovely men like that, and what about her?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Bernd Alois Zimmermann : _Die Soldaten_


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

I'll wade in here but as much as I love it, I wont mention "Die Tote Stadt"... Delius' "A Village Romeo and Juliet" is one opera whose tunes haunt me for days after a listenning. How well known is Braunfels "Die Vogel"? Schumanns "Genoveva" rarely sees the light of day as does Faure's "Penelope" but all these contain much wonderful music.


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## mchriste (Aug 16, 2013)

Once my list of operas to listen to reached Donizetti's "Don Pasquale", I got this CD based on the suggestions from TC:









Yes, this CD of Don Pasquale is indeed excellent. But it also includes *Il Campanello di Notte* which I had never heard of. So I listened to it and loved Don Annibale's cavatina "Bella cosa, amici cari".

What a cute little opera buffa, only about an hour long. And it's even on youtube!





(the cavatina starts here, though I like the version on the CD mentioned above even better)


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Indeed.

_Il Campanello_ started as a Neapolitan farce, with a lot of dialogue and Annibale Pistacchio talking and singing in Neapolitan. There were only 5 numbers:

1.- Evviva don Annibale!... Bella cosa, amici cari
2.- Non fuggir, t'arresta, ingrata!
3.- Il segreto per esser felici (taken from _Lucrezia Borgia_)
4.- Ho una bella, un'infedele (inspired in_ Marin Faliero_)
5.- Da me lungi ancor vivendo

Later, Donizetti completed the _opera buffa _version, including, among other things, the very funny number "Mio signore venerato... La povera Anastasia". Alfredo Mariotti and Alberto Rinaldi are great in the CD mentioned above.


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## rborganist (Jan 29, 2013)

Opera seems to be victim to fashion; once upon a time Gluck's Orfeo was performed regularly; now it is seldom in opera company's repertoire. Companies often perform Gianni Schicchi and forget about Il Tabarro and Suor Angelica. I've been listening to opera on radio and recordings for over forty years and I've only seen Suor Angelica once. I love Ravel's L'Enfant et les sortileges, but it requires quite a large cast and some tricky special effects. I've heard that Ravel hoped that Disney would do an animated version, but that it never happened. I'd like to see some of Verdi's early operas, but the only early one I've seen is Nabucco (and I love it). Who does Oberto, Stiffelio, Giovanna d'Arco--maybe a few houses in Italy, but few elsewhere. How about some company doing an occasional operetta such as "The Gypsy Baron" or "La Perichole" or "The Merry Widow" for an evening when everyone is still alive at the end? Come to think of it, I'd like to see Wagner's "Rienzi" but who ever performs it? And while I'm not a fan of twentieth-century opera, I do love Bluebeard's Castle. I have a morre recent recording with Elena Obratsova as Judith, and there is no excuse for not doing this one as it requires only two singers, and maybe a spoken narrator.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

rborganist said:


> Companies often perform Gianni Schicchi and forget about Il Tabarro and Suor Angelica.


An excellent Suor Angelica in this trilogy which won the Gramophone 2013 award.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

rborganist said:


> I love Ravel's L'Enfant et les sortileges, but it requires quite a large cast and some tricky special effects. I've heard that Ravel hoped that Disney would do an animated version, but that it never happened. I


Who needs Disney (uugh) when you can have Glyndebourne:


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

rborganist said:


> [...] Come to think of it, I'd like to see Wagner's "Rienzi" but who ever performs it? [...]


I've got this stage production in blu-ray. Very good, imo, considering it's a small, provincial but respectable opera house (Toulouse).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Revenant said:


> I've got this stage production in blu-ray. Very good, imo, considering it's a small, provincial but respectable opera house (Toulouse).
> 
> View attachment 27038


That's quite good. I slightly prefer this one - the staging is more interesting.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

My understanding is that Bluebeard is performed fairly regularly as a semi-staged opera (in the concert hall with limited effects) - it certainly lends itself to this sort of treatment given its length and two singers. 

And yes - I enjoy Il Tabarro more than Gianni Schichi (sp?) - apropos I've always wondered why opera "double features" aren't done more often. Any of the Triticco could be matched with a contemporary 1 acter for a pretty good night out


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Indeed they are.

I attended, for instance, a double feature evening with _Il prigioniero _and _Suor Angelica _one year ago, at Teatro Real.


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## HumphreyAppleby (Apr 11, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> Les Troyens.
> 
> Sure, it's hardly an obscure one but severely underrated - at least in my neck of the woods where Carmen every season seems like good financial sense.


All of Berlioz's operas have suffered a similar fate, which is a shame because they're quite extraordinary. That being said, _Les Troyens_ is not a favorite of mine, at least not yet, as I've had trouble getting involved in the music. That isn't to say it isn't a good opera. But _Benvenuto Cellini_ is also a wonderful opera, full of fire and thrilling arias and choruses. And _Beatrice et Benedict_, while not a barn-burner like _Cellini_, has some truly gorgeous music. People often say that Berlioz's operas are difficult to perform, but that hasn't stopped companies from putting on operas like _Siegfried_.

How is this glorious operatic music not performed regularly?:
Benvenuto Cellini
And this painfully beautiful duet from Beatrice et Benedict

And to the list of underrated and poorly known operas I'd add Donizett's final masterpiece _Dom Sebastien_. It's in a different style than is usual for Donizetti, but it is quite incredible. Imagine if he had stayed sane... I think he would have forged an interesting operatic form. Here's the incredible aria 'Seul sur le terre' in Italian: Deserto in terra.

As an unrelated side note, is it just me or do Italians seem to do their best with their last operas? _Guillaume Tell_, _Dom Sebastein_, _Falstaff_, and _Turandot_ are all their composers' masterpieces (the Donizetti being debatable, of course).


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## Autumn Leaves (Jan 3, 2014)

Hansel und Gretel. Can't wait to see it live. The perfect children's opera!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Montemezzi's "L'amore dei tre re"


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)




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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

"Merry Mount", the only opera by Howard Hanson , is in my humble opinion one of the best operas by an American composer . It was premiered in the 1930s by the Met , was very enthusiastically received by the Met audience at the time, but was never revived there and has been sadly neglected ever since . 
Hanson's music is passionate and colorful , and anything but staid as the lives of the Puritans was said to have been . 
The opera deals with sexual and religious intrigue among the Puritans of Massachusetts in the 17th century , and the conflict between them and more recent settlers form England who were much more illiberal and permissive , as well as the local Algonquian Indian tribes .
The main role is that of a Puritan preacher who is torn by sexual repression and sexual desire , and the role was created by the once very famous American bass-baritone Lawrence Tibbett . 
The conductor was of all maestros, Tullio Serafin ! Other one famous Met singers such as Gladys Swarthout were in the cast . 
You can hear a radio broadcast on youtube, but the sound leaves much to be desired as you can well imagine .
More recently, Gerard Schwarz, former music director of the Seattle symphony and a staunch champion of Hansons's orchestral music , led a revival in concert form with the Seattle symphony which was released by Naxos, in much better sound of course . 
I don't know if it's still in print, but it's well worth looking for .


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

Le Grand Macabre, György Ligeti's only opera, (the anti-anti-opera opera) might be a bit more than "little known" (medium known?), but for this listener is has always been hugely underrated.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

*Luigi Mosca - L'Italiana in Algeri*
Totally delightful, pre-dates Rossini and uses mostly the same libretto. Pappataci scene sounds as if Rossini has lifted all his ideas from Luigi Mosca, you must hear it to believe. Utterly charming performance! Of course Rossini took this libretto to another level (as happened to poor Paisiello's Barbiere di Siviglia - a worthy opera but how many of you have actually heard it?)









*Michael William Balfe - Falstaff*
Another hidden gem, this time singing is of more varied quality, but Marcel Vanaud does the title role justice. Falstaff/Ford duet ("Voi siete... Or comprendo") is hilarious and it uses one of the themes presented in the overture (another highlight). Very recommended!









*Daniel-François-Esprit Auber - Gustave III, ou le Bal masqué*
Now this is a must-hear for any serious opera afficionado. It deserves no less recognition than Verdi's Ballo in maschera. And believe me, ballet music of the last act is one of the highlights of this recording - a pity they cut the most famous part, Galop, which was made available as bonus track to the Richard Bonynge recording of another Auber work, Le Domino Noir (in fact, the whole overture and ballet suite were included as bonus to CD2). You wouldn't want to miss it!


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## niknik (Oct 4, 2014)

My first approach to Beverly Sills who became one from my beloved sopranos


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

Can I add Szymanowski's Krol (King) Roger to the list having loved and enjoyed Simon Rattle's recording for two decades. A few years ago Vic Opera put on a production in Melbourne and I couldn't buy my ticket quick enough knowing it was probably a once in a lifetime opportunity to see it live. What a fabulous evening. The opening must be one of the most dramatic in all opera.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'll second Szymanowski's *Krol Roger*. Gorgeous work.

Underrated or not well enough known?

All Berlioz's operas. Although better known now than they once were, they still are hardly repertoire works. Dramatically *Béatrice et Bénédict* has its problems, but has some gorgeous music. *Benvenuto Cellini* and *Les Troyens* are both works of genius.

Enesco's *Oedipe*. 
Holst's *Savitri* - it's very short, but could easily be paired with something like Ravel's *L'Enfant et les sortilèges*.
Britten's *Gloriana* - sadly neglected compared to his other operas.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'll second Szymanowski's *Krol Roger*. Gorgeous work.
> 
> Underrated or not well enough known?
> 
> ...


Mention of Holst's _Savitri_ - which impressed me too - brings to mind another opera on an Indian subject, Alfano's _Sakuntala._ I've heard only excerpts, which I enjoyed, but it's been called Alfano's best and its title role has attracted sopranos such as Magda Olivero and Anna de Cavalieri.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> All Berlioz's operas. Although better known now than they once were, they still are hardly repertoire works. Dramatically *Béatrice et Bénédict* has its problems, but has some gorgeous music. *Benvenuto Cellini* and *Les Troyens* are both works of genius.


I entirely agree. I listen to _Benvenuto Cellini_ as often as any opera and am shocked every time that it isn't more widely performed. My understanding is it's fiendishly difficult to perform even by modern standards so that might have something to do with it.

I don't listen to _Les Troyens_ as often due to the length and I do think it's starting to get the recognition it deserves. Due to the length and scale of the opera live performances will quite likely always be a rarity.

As a final note, I think if more people understood how influential Berlioz was on Wagner (Berlioz was probably the living composer Wagner respected the most followed by Liszt) Berlioz might gain in prestige. I've even seen people claim that Wagner was the first to write his own Librettos and thereby instill a greater sense of artistic unity on his works when, of course, it was Berlioz who pioneered this. You can also see Berlioz's influence in the increasing role of the orchestra in the opera and even the Leitmotif technique found its nascent beginning in what Berlioz referred to as an "idée fixe" (of course, Wagner took both these things to greater heights than Berlioz ever did).


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

BachIsBest said:


> fiendishly difficult to perform even by modern standards


I assume you mean _instrumental_ playing standards. 

Seriously though, I completely agree about _Cellini_. It is a wonderful piece. Cellini's arias are really spectacular, and it has a verve that many better known works lack.


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## zxxyxxz (Apr 14, 2020)

Broughton's The Queen of Cornwall.

A nice english take on Tristan and Isolde, I always find the beginning a little hard but once it gets going I find it pretty good.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

-------------------


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

I have become a big fan of Salieri's operas, particularly _Falstaff_, _La Scuola de' Gelosi_, _Tarare_, _Les Danaïdes_ and _La grotta di Trofonio_. Some fantastic music, and we are blessed with top record labels, conductors, orchestra and signers recording his works, finally.

I also love Corigliano's _The Ghosts of Versailles_ and the new recording on the Versailles label is fantastic.

Leonardo Vinci's _Artaserse_ in my opinion is one of the greatest, and certainly most fun, baroque opera. I also love Porpora's _Germanico in Germania_. Two gems.

Harnoncourt's recording of Schubert's _Alfonso und Estrella_ is absolutely wonderful.

There are so many works, outside the main repertoire that are fantastic and if one doesn't venture outside, one misses out.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> When I listen to a little known opera I usually soon discover why it is little known!


Hogwash. Why? Because some asshat critic or opera snob says so? It's like I look at that "What are you listening to now" thread and I always think BORING. It's Tristan, and Aida, and Norma over and over and over and I think does anyone listen to anything else. It's like when that moronic critic called Karajan's Ring a chamber Ring and I have heard that over and over and over, and it's stupid. It's not a chamber Ring in the least, and I didn't buy it for over a decade because this moron listened to all the other morons who said it was. I like to discover things for myself and come to my on conclusions (not saying you don't, at all). If you don't ever play outside the sandbox, you miss out on so much.


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## ThankYouKiwi (May 2, 2021)

Schulhoff's Flammen totally knocked my socks off. Absolutely psychedelic

Tippett's King Priam was a very pleasant surprise too. Tons of cool brass writing and even an aria accompanied by a gnarly atonal solo guitar!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

gellio said:


> I also love Corigliano's _The Ghosts of Versailles_ and the new recording on the Versailles label is fantastic.
> 
> .


I really like it too and think it a dreadful shame that the video of the Met premiere with Stratas and Fleming never made it to DVD. It deserves a reissue.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Hasn't been mentioned yet, but Albéric Magnard's Guercoeur contains some spellbinding passages:


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## VasileA (Oct 31, 2020)

*The tale of Tsar Saltan *and *The golden cockerel *by Rimsky-Korsakov. Gorgeous music, punchy librettos.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Lovely work. Entartete Musik, of course


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)




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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

The Globolinks is one of the ca. 3 rare operas I have seen on stage (it was mainly aimed at children) but I don't think I'd want to listen to a recording. 
Another one that was really cool although it might have been even longer ago (more than 20 years) was Max Brand: Maschinist Hopkins


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Massenet: La Navarraise

Lucia Popp (Anita), Alain Vanzo (Araquil), Vincenzo Sardinero (Garrido), Gérard Souzay (Remigio), Claude Meloni (Bustamente), Michel Sénéchal (Ramon)

Ambrosian Opera Chorus, London Symphony Orchestra, Antonio de Almeida


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov: Le Coq D'Or

Beverly Sills, Norman Treigle, Enrico Di Giuseppe, Julius Rudel ‎-


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Giordano - Madame Sans-Gêne / Mirella Freni, Merighi, Buda, Ranzani


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

-------------------------------------


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Schreker: Der Schatzgräber
Schnittke: Life With An Idiot
Enescu: Oedipe 
Verdi: La Battaglia di Legnano
Dallipiccola: Il Prigioniero


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

------------------------------------------


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*Magnard*: _Guercoeur_
Jose Van Dam, Hildegard Behrens, Gary Lakes, Nadine Denize, Orfeon Donostiarra
Michel Plasson, Orchestre National du Capitole de Toulou










This recording has a phenomenal cast and it might be the only recording for the opera, which is not well known nor often staged. But the music is extraordinary. It occupies the territory between Wagner and Debussy.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mascagni: Parisina


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Moore / LaTouche: The Ballad of Baby Doe


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Rogerx said:


> Moore / LaTouche: The Ballad of Baby Doe


I know this opera and remember it well from the '70s, when for some reason I seem to think it was mentioned more. I don't think of it as little known but I suppose it has been ignored. Very fine work, and an American opera that deserves more productions.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

SanAntone said:


> I know this opera and remember it well from the '70s, when for some reason I seem to think it was mentioned more. I don't think of it as little known but I suppose it has been ignored. Very fine work, and an American opera that deserves more productions.


In Miss Sills book "Bubbles" there's a nice piece about the recordings.
Higley recommended reading.


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## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

Donizetti - Parisina, L'assedio di Calais, Maria di Rohan, Maria de Rudenz, Poliuto (all very melodic - good Opera Rara recordings - I have no idea why these are not performed as much as his repertoire operas).
Gluck: Iphigenie in Aulis (maybe a small step down from Tauride but doesn't deserve its relative neglect IMO)
Halevy: La Reine de Chypre (great new Bru Zane recording)
Handel: Ottone, Alessandro, or Arminio (all with outstanding recent recordings on Decca)
Mascagni: Iris
Massenet: Don Quichotte (gets performed occasionally - I think it's one of his best)
Mercadante: Orazi e Curiazi, Il Giuramento, Virginia
Rossini: Mose in Egitto (recommend Phillips recording), Mathilde de Shabran (love the Decca recording with Massis and Florez)
Salieri: Les Horaces or Les Danaides
Verdi: Attila (not sure if any Verdi opera could count as little known)


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Catalani: Loreley


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Rogerx said:


> Catalani: Loreley


I find this opera much more enjoyable than the supposedly superior La Wally.

N.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

The Conte said:


> I find this opera much more enjoyable than the supposedly superior La Wally.
> 
> N.


I couldn't agree more.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Donizetti: Belisario
Another one, almost extinct


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Kreisler jr said:


> The Globolinks is one of the ca. 3 rare operas I have seen on stage (it was mainly aimed at children) but I don't think I'd want to listen to a recording.
> Another one that was really cool although it might have been even longer ago (more than 20 years) was Max Brand: Maschinist Hopkins


There is a great video of it.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*THOMAS*: _Hamlet_










CONDUCTOR: Louis Langrée
OPHELIE: *Marlis Petersen*
GERTRUDE: *Jennifer Larmore*
HAMLET: *Simon Keenlyside*
CLAUDIUS: *James Morris*

At the Met for the first time in over 100 years, *Simon Keenlyside* inspired this revival of this undeservedly neglected opera. AMBROISE THOMAS is known mainly for _Mignon_ and _Hamlet_ but his operas have generally been ignored throughout the 20th century, but since the 1980s there have been a few new productions, mostly for _Hamlet_.

*Marlis Petersen* and *Jennifer Larmore* are both beautiful and fine singers, however, *James Morris*
seems to only approximate the pitches of his role. *Simon Keenlyside* is excellent.

There is also a fine recording led by *Thomas Hampson* from 2012 and from 1984 *Sherrill Milnes* and *Joan Sutherland*.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

SanAntone said:


> *THOMAS*: _Hamlet_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And a new one :

View attachment 161161


Sensational, very modern staging but supreme singing.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Here are a few I can think of...

Sadly Karl Amadeus Hartmann never completed the orchestration for three of the five satirical episodes which make up _Wachsfigurenkabinett_, a work tailor-made for the Weimar years - they were posthumously finished off by Günter Bialas, Wilfred Hiller and Hans Werner Henze and it was Henze himself who was largely responsible for overseeing the work's premiere nearly 60 years after Hartmann put the project aside.

_Wachsfigurenkabinett_ [_Waxworks_] - 'five little operas' [Libretto: Erich Borman] (1929-30 - inc.):










Karl Amadeus Hartmann's only 'proper' opera is set during the Thirty Years War, a particularly relentless and bloody conflict which laid waste to vast swathes of central Europe during the 17th century, and how it impacts on a naïve country lad who experiences the worst of it from all sides, initially as a peasant boy whose village is ravaged (fondly named Simplicius ('Simpleton)' by the kindly hermit who adopted him afterwards) and later as an underage soldier pressed into service, before becoming one of the licentious governor's entourage.

Composed not long after the Nazis took power and just before the composer put his career on ice in silent protest against Hitler's regime, it could be said that the opera's subject matter was an eerie premonition of the many horrors to follow during WWII. _Simplicius Simplicissimus_ wasn't performed until the end of the 1940s, by which time Hartmann was deservedly in a better position to make a new start. Hartmann thoroughly revised the opera later on, and it is the revised version which is performed here.

Performances have been rare since it's belated 50s premiere: I get the impression from listening that maybe the action is too static to make for an entertaining stage work as it comes over as a kind of triptych of scenes like Szymanowski's _Król Roger_, but that's no reflection on the music - this for me is a high point of Hartmann's output.

_Simplicius Simplicissimus_ [_The Simplest Simpleton_] - opera in three parts after the novel by Jakob von Grimmelhausen [Libretto: Hermann Scherchen/Wolfgang Petzet/Karl Amadeus Hartmann] (1934-35 - rev. 1957):










__________________

Hugo Weisgall was one of those composers who seemed to be well-regarded but remains rather underrepresented on disc. His work here is a kind of 'play within a play' situation, but with a twist. Set in a small theatre during the 1950s, a musical director is rehearsing his cast for a new Weisgall work called _The Temptation of St. Anthony_ when six strangers appear - they say they have parts to portray but need a director to do them justice. The director agrees to listen to their story as he is making little headway with the Weisgall work, which the original cast aren't keen on anyway (nice self-deprecatory touch there...).

Their own story is a rather unpleasant tragedy, and as it is acted out it gives the distinct impression that the six characters are in fact playing out a real-life scenario. Once the rehearsal is over there is a powercut, and when the lights come back on the six have disappeared. Once the director is alone he thinks he hears one of the six again but sees nothing, leaving him to wonder whether he imagined the whole thing.

_Six Characters in Search of an Author_ - opera in three acts [Libretto: Denis Johnston, after a play by Luigi Pirendello] (1953-56):










___________________

John Casken's _Golem_ is based on the legend of a man made from clay who is created in order to protect the Jewish population in Prague but after being both shunned and provoked turns against the ones he is supposed to protect.

_Golem_ - chamber opera in two parts [Libretto: John Casken and Pierre Audi, after the Eastern European Jewish folk legend] (1986-88):


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Pergolesi: Lo frate 'nnamorato

I do understand there are not many recordings, but once in a while it's fun listening


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Lodoïska - Luigi Cherubini
Riccardo Muti (1991)
Lodoiska Mariella Devia
Lysinka Francesca Pedaci
Floreski Bernard Lombardo
Titzikan Thomas Moser
Varbel Alessandro Corbelli
Dourlinski William Shimell
Altamoras Mario Luperi
Talma Danilo Serraiocco
Premier emissaire Pierto Spina
Deuxieme emissaire Ernesto Panariello
Troisieme emissaire Enzo Capuano
Premier tartare Renato Cazzaniga
Deuxieme tartare Aldo Bramante
Orchester: Teatro alla Scala di Milano
Chor: Teatro alla Scala di Milano
Live-Aufnahme
Sony


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)




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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

SixFootScowl said:


>


These will never be very popular other then the UK . I like it though.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Donizetti: Elisabetta al castello di Kenilworth

Now this one should be more performed


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Rogerx said:


> Donizetti: Elisabetta al castello di Kenilworth
> 
> Now this one should be more performed


Donizetti's 4th queen opera!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

View attachment 161255


Montezuma from Graun deserves another change


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## Eramire156 (Sep 28, 2017)

*Forsaken Phantoms of the Opera*

In a old issue of Opera Quarterly, there is article of the above title by edward l. affleck, link below

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/25453/pdf

My top five would be, in no particular order

1. Giuseppe Apolloni: *L'Ebreo
2. Giuseppe Persiani: *Ines de Castro
3. Amilcare Ponchielli: *I promessi sposi
4. Errico Petrella:Jone
5. Gaspare Spontini: Fernand Cortez, ou La conquête du Mexique

and always more Mercadante and Pacini


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Catalani - LORELEY

Elena Suliotis, Piero Cappuccilli

Gianandrea Gavazzeni


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Eramire156 said:


> In an old issue of Opera Quarterly, there is article of the above title by Edward l. Affleck


I was pleased confused to see one of my contributions, *Ambrose Thomas*'s _Hamlet_, show up on his list. The other one I posted was *Albéric Magnard*'s _Guercoeur_.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Georges Bizet - OPERA `Ivan IV` - IVAN LE TERRIBLE 
OPERA `Ivan 4`


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

-----------------------------------------------


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Lortzing: Undine

RIAS-Kammerchor
Radio-Symphonie-Orchester
Robert Heger


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Marescialla D'Ancre by ALESSANDRO NINI


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Die Rheinnixen - Jacques Offenbach, 1864


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## Tempesta (Sep 2, 2021)

Bliss: _The Olympians_ (An Opera in Three Acts)


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Lalo: Le roi d'Ys - Edouard Lalo, 1875


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

*Das Christ-Elflein* (The Little Elf of Christ) by Hans Pfitzner is a charming work. I'm surprised it hasn't been performed more for Christmas time.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

La gioventù di Enrico V - Saverio Mercadante,


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## Szilgyo (Aug 18, 2021)

Cherevichki (The Slippers) by Tchaikovsky. One of my favourites ever. Simply fabulous!


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

I secretly love Prokofiev's the Fiery Angel but I almost never see it anywhere. It's not so rare that no recordings exist but most houses don't seem to do it, possibly because of how difficult singing Renata is.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Maddalena by Sergei Prokofiev, need more attention.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Szilgyo said:


> Cherevichki (The Slippers) by Tchaikovsky. One of my favourites ever. Simply fabulous!


I just remember I saw a DVD once, indeed very interesting.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Die Hochzeit auf der Alm, Schäfergedicht in 2 Aufzügen MH 107 (1768)











This album includes a recording of another, short work of fine vocal writing, Der Baßgeiger zu Wörgl.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> need more attention.


It's all good.. _all good.._ But let's try to not get this thread closed as well.. Ok?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

The numbers (1, 2, 3, 4; 1 being the highest) are my ratings

1. Endimione, Act I: Quel ruscelleto




2. Endimione, Act II: Amor, che nasce con la speranza




3. Endimione, Act I: Dimmi che vaga




4. Endimione, Act I: Non ti celar


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

hammeredklavier said:


> The numbers (1, 2, 3, 4; 1 being the highest) are my ratings
> 
> 1. Endimione, Act I: Quel ruscelleto
> 
> ...


Love the Pre-Raphaelite painting!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

+
5. Endimione, Act II: Ofa che m'ami


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Now THAT’s zaftig!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I have an irrational fondness for Pfitzner's PALESTRINA.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

wkasimer said:


> I have an irrational fondness for Pfitzner's PALESTRINA.


Next new opera music is set! I'll let you know how it hits me.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm surprised that I haven't already added to this thread as there are a few which I think highly of...

Nielsen - Maskarade
Vaughan Williams - Sir John in Love
Holst - At the Boar's Head

I also think that Berlioz' Benvenuto Cellini would qualify as an underrated work.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am featuring one in my contest next week: Medea in Corinto by Mayr. I LOVE some of the music.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)




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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> I also think that Berlioz' Benvenuto Cellini would qualify as an underrated work.


Absolutely, though, like a lot of Berlioz, it's hard to get right.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The Search in Thread option is still AWOL, so no clue whether this one was posted before:



Art Rock said:


> Ethel Smyth: The Wreckers (BBC Philharmonic, Odaline de la Martinez, Anne-Marie Owens, Justin Lavender, Peter Sidhom et al, Conifer, 2CDs)
> 
> The main opera by Ethel Smyth (she wrote six). The overture was actually my first encounter with Smyth's works about 35 years ago, by its inclusion on an EMI CD coupled with British tone poems. The opera was completed in 1904. It is well worth hearing.


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## CLO (11 mo ago)

Prokofiev's _Betrothal in a Monastary_ is in my opinion the best comic opera kind since Verdi's Falstaff. It shows Prokofiev in full command of a style perfectly suited to it -- one that reconciles the hard-edged gestures of his youth to the lyricism that had always been an important part of his gift. The resultant operatic language is fresh and surprising, yet tugs at the heart. It shifts marries wonderfully with every turn of the dramatic situation, and wraps it in mysterious and sensuous hues and saturates it with a melancholy and ache for romantic fulfillment that is finally released in the exhilarating resolution. Besides all that, it's genuinely funny, crackling with a wit that is ironic but never cynical.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

The Medium (Giancarlo Menotti)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> The Medium (Giancarlo Menotti)


Wonderful production. That was TV then, and that was opera without gimmicks. Sigh.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Wonderful production. That was TV then, and that was opera without gimmicks. Sigh.


Apart from _all_ of the cast being great singers, I loved how the composer captured the delightfully _creepy_ quality. It feels very much like something you would listen to around Halloween, with an ominous, almost schizophrenic quality.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> It feels very much like something you would listen to around Halloween, with an ominous, almost schizophrenic quality.


Yeah, look at this horrifying scene (@40:40)
watch?v=Ni6Ugouya0o&t=40m40s


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> 1. Endimione, Act I: Quel ruscelleto


Quel ruscelletto che l'onde chiare or or col mare confonderà, nel mormorio del foco mio colle sue sponde parlando va.
Quell'augelletto ch'arde d'amore, e serba al piede, ma non al core la libertà, in sua favella per la sua bella, che ancor non riede, piangendo sta.
This little brook, whose limpid waves shall soon be mingled with the sea, converses with its banks, murmuring about my fire.
This little bird, burning with love, whose feet know freedom, but not its heart, weeps and laments in its song for the beautiful lover who has not returned.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Not an opera but an Oratorio but that’s a very contigent minor difference given the format and style.
I give you the sublime great German composer: Franz Schmidt.
He’s pretty known, but not so much this:








A true masterpiece.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)




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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

gellio said:


> I have become a big fan of Salieri's operas, particularly _Falstaff_, _La Scuola de' Gelosi_, _Tarare_, _Les Danaïdes_ and _La grotta di Trofonio_. Some fantastic music, and we are blessed with top record labels, conductors, orchestra and signers recording his works, finally.
> 
> I also love Corigliano's _The Ghosts of Versailles_ and the new recording on the Versailles label is fantastic.
> 
> ...


I‘m curious about your impressions of those works (that I don’t know), would you put them on par almost with Mozart ?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> I‘m curious about your impressions of those works (that I don’t know), would you put them on par almost with Mozart ?


Have a look at:


Meyerbeer Smith said:


> _Les Danaïdes _is terrific.
> Bold and imaginative, from the stormy, turbulent, string-heavy overture to the tableau of the Danaides in Hell. The young Berlioz was blown away, and one can hear echoes of the final scene in _La damnation de Faust_. In between, there are massive choruses, great arias for the soprano, and a handful for her father and her lover.
> If this is mediocrity, let's have more of it.
> I wrote it up here: https://operascribe.com/2018/03/11/56-les-danaides-antonio-salieri/





Dick Johnson said:


> The contemporary music public in Mozart's time knew what they were doing when they acknowledged Salieri as a worthy peer of the boy genius. Check out Les Danaides or Les Horaces if you are not familiar with his work. Maybe they don't reach the Olympian heights of Don Giovanni or La Nozze di Figaro - but they are at least on the level of Cosi Fan Tutte and better than some of the lesser Mozart operas IMO (and I like Cosi very much).


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> Have a look at:


And there goes the ruining of my rubbles again.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bernamej said:


> I‘m curious about your impressions of those works (that I don’t know), would you put them on par almost with Mozart ?


I've listened to Salieri's _Falstaff_. It isn't on a par, not even almost, with Mozart's best-known operas (I haven't heard most of his early ones), and it definitely can't stand alongside Verdi's comic masterpiece of the same name. It's pleasant, though, and might make for a good theatrical evening.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I've listened to Salieri's _Falstaff_. It isn't on a par, not even almost, with Mozart's best-known operas (I haven't heard most of his early ones), and it definitely can't stand alongside Verdi's comic masterpiece of the same name. It's pleasant, though, and might make for a good theatrical evening.


Interesting. And have you listened to the Danaïdes ans the above mentioned operas ?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bernamej said:


> Interesting. And have you listened to the Danaïdes ans the above mentioned operas ?


No. _Falstaff_ didn't leave me with a burning curiosity to hear more, but I'm willing to believe that some of the other operas are good. Cecilia Bartoli's Salieri album contains some very attractive arias.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> No. _Falstaff_ didn't leave me with a burning curiosity to hear more, but I'm willing to believe that some of the other operas are good. Cecilia Bartoli's Salieri album contains some very attractive arias.


I guess I’ll find out soon enough. All the operas of Mozart present in Gardiner’s box were pure gems for me. I don’t know any other CLASSICAL era composer (maybe Gluck but he sounds sometimes like late baroque, it’s true I don’t know him enough, neither Picini his rival) that can please as much as Mozart for Opera yet.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Bernamej said:


> I guess I’ll find out soon enough. All the operas of Mozart present in Gardiner’s box were pure gems for me. I don’t know any other CLASSICAL era composer (maybe Gluck but he sounds sometimes like late baroque, it’s true I don’t know him enough, neither Picini his rival) that can please as much as Mozart for Opera yet.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Oh no never bothered but I really should.
Hey I forgot about another one I really enjoy !
Kraus !


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Massenet *Le Cid *could use some attention, as could Donozetti’s *Maria Padilla *- I remember hearing a tape in the 1970s or 1980s with Janet Price but nothing since.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> I don’t know any other CLASSICAL era composer (maybe Gluck but he sounds sometimes like late baroque, it’s true I don’t know him enough, neither Picini his rival) that can please as much as Mozart for Opera yet.


Andromeda e Perseo

















Requiem, his "most famous" piece (written for the death of his employer, and (coincidentally) after his only child died in her infancy, in the same year)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

+MH118, a work full of "memorable melodies";

























You may still think it's not on par with Mozart's, but keep in mind it's an early work (1769). The late works (and the oratorios from the early 1770s, Kaiser Constanstin I. Feldzug und Sieg MH117, Der reumütige Petrus MH138, Der büssende Sünder MH147, Passione Dominum nostrum Jesu Christe MH202) have not been recorded. (These could be the "game-changers"; we don't know yet.)


hammeredklavier said:


> + *Der Schulmeister MH204, Der Englische Patriot MH285, Beschluss-Arie MH295, and especially Die Ährenleserin MH493 (1788)*, which is said to contain greater boldness of chromatic language, Lied-like qualities of the northern tradition (as opposed to coloratura) than Haydn's earlier works, and 3 instances of homage to Mozart's Don Giovanni.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

MAS said:


> Massenet *Le Cid *could use some attention, as could Donozetti’s *Maria Padilla *- I remember hearing a tape in the 1970s or 1980s with Janet Price but nothing since.


Excellent choices. Massenet i could actually like when he’s serious.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> +MH118, a work full of "memorable melodies";
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Michael Haydn very very good call yes. On my list !
it’s unbelievable the amount of treasures that are still unrecorded all over the place. From operas to piano, to concertos, etc.
I’m not gonna complain too hard though. A few days ago I did a very fast estimation of how much music I could hope to listen to before I die...
What a terrible thing. If I was totally rational I would stick to the ”main course” main repertoire (I‘m far from having listened to all the operas) yet I’m still stocking up on all kinds of lesser known material (that I actually listen to, for example right now, Lorely by Bruch, which I enjoy very much).
I do this thing with the woman where I tell her my age for each composer.
For example, with Chopin, I’m a 100 years old. There’s absolutely nothing left for me to discover in Chopin. I’ve listened to ever works many times, and many interpretations. Being a 100 years old gives some satisfaction, it’s nice to have this familiarity, etc.
But it’s also a bit sad, for obvious reasons.
A few years ago, I told her I was 5 years old for Wagner !!!!!
Same for Mozart !!!! What an exciting thing to be so young with giant geniuses ! The excitement of the discovery and integration and appreciation is great.
Although I’m pretty old now for many of the great classics, Bach, Mozart, Berthoven, Brahms, Bruckner, etc etc etc...
The fact that I’m still a todler with Verdi, Donizetti, and many others is an incredible feeling.
For Bellini I’m about 60 years old now.

Edit: actually i just realized I’m a bit older for Verdi. About 8 years old. And I should say unborn for Donizetti.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Bernamej said:


> .
> For Bellini I’m about 60 years old now.
> 
> Edit: actually i just realized I’m a bit older for Verdi. About 8 years old. And I should say unborn for Donizetti.


How does that happen ?
I thought everybody is exposed to Verdi and Donizetti earlier than Bellini !??? But I enjoyed so much being (almost) new to Bellini last October.

Btw, if you are a Bellini fan at advanced level, did you ever watch or listen to Giulietta and Romeo by Vaccai ? (They used to play a part of it transplanted into Bellini's opera. And I hope I am not repeating myself, this thread is quite long).


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

BBSVK said:


> How does that happen ?
> I thought everybody is exposed to Verdi and Donizetti earlier than Bellini !??? But I enjoyed so much being (almost) new to Bellini last October.
> 
> Btw, if you are a Bellini fan at advanced level, did you ever watch or listen to Giulietta and Romeo by Vaccai ? (They used to play a part of it transplanted into Bellini's opera. And I hope I am not repeating myself, this thread is quite long).


Yes I know I have a weird relationship to opera because for most of my musical listening life I have actively turned my back to it and came late in life to opera, so it’s not a ”natural” path.
@BBSVK the reason why Bellini was the first of my bel canto opera composers is because Chopin worshiped him and was influenced by him. Never forgot this fact since my first musical love, which was Chopin. I was so obsessed with Chopin, I read a few biographies etc etc...I was 15. 
Thanks for the recommendations.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> I don’t know any other CLASSICAL era composer that can please as much as Mozart for Opera yet.


"Alceste is an opera in German in five acts by Anton Schweitzer (1735–1787) with a libretto by Christoph Martin Wieland. It was commissioned by Abel Seyler for the Seylersche Schauspiel-Gesellschaft, and premiered on 28 May 1773 at the Hoftheater Weimar. Considered a milestone of German opera, it was revived in Weimar and recorded in 1999."





"Mozart wrote that "Alcestis was a great success, and that although it is not half so beautiful as [Schweitzer's] Rosamund. It is true that its success was much abetted by the fact that it was the first German opera." The opera singer, composer and musical theorist Ernst Christoph Dressler described the positive reception of the opera in Weimar in his 1774 book Gedanken Die Vorstellung Der Alceste, Ein Deutsches Ernsthaftes Singspiel (Thoughts on the Presentation of Alceste, a German Serious Opera). He considered it a model for German opera."
















Alceste, Act III, Scene 2: "Er flucht dem Tageslicht in seinem Schmerz"
Alceste, Act I, Scene 1: "Zwischen Angst und zwischen Hoffen"
Alceste, Act II, Scene 5: "Sie stirbt, o Gott!"
Alceste, Act IV, Scene 2: "O flieh, Geliebter Schatten, fliehe!"


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I have been listening to Enescu's Oedipe the past few days and I can see why critics show lots of respect for it.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"Much of Reichardt's reputation as a composer rests on his Lieder that number about 1500, using texts by some 125 poets. Important among these are the settings of Goethe's texts, some of which were known to, and influenced, Schubert. He was also known by his Singspiele, a genre that he refined with Goethe's support."

Erwin und Elmire (1793)








Trauerkantate (1786)


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## Echolane (Nov 19, 2018)

My favorite version of Pierrot’s Lied, Mein Sehnen, Mein Wahnen, is this one sung by a little known baritone named Stephan Ganz. I absolutely LOVE his version of this very gorgeous aria.


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## Denerah Bathory (6 mo ago)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I only discovered Enescu's _Oedipe_ recently... but it is every bit worthy of hearing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oedipe was great, I just watched a great production on Medici.tv a few months ago. And I'm really interested in Stravinsky's Rossignol, as I assume it is in French, which makes it much more promising than Rake's Progress (my opinion: nobody has yet found a successful and convincing way to write English-language opera).


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## Denerah Bathory (6 mo ago)

A really great and little known opera--and Korngold's finest--Das Wunder der Heliane. Wow!


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Any of Haydn's operas.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

I general don't like Strauss's operas very much, but I think Elektra is overshadowed by the more sensationalistic Salome. I find Elektra to be really interesting musically. For some reason.  It seems that Strauss was getting into more "atonal" or dissonant territory, got scared and then headed back to the 1890s.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

Palestrina (Pfitzner)
La voix humaine (Poulenc)
Les mamelles de tirésias (Poulenc)
Fernand Cortez (Spontini)
Olimpie (Spontini)
Béatrice et Bénédict (Berlioz)
Káťa Kabanová (Janacek)
Orfeo ed Euridice (Haydn)
Orontea (Cesti)
Sakùntala (Alfano)


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Itullian said:


> Any of Haydn's operas.


Amen.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Yabetz said:


> It seems that Strauss was getting into more "atonal" or dissonant territory, got scared and then headed back to the 1890s.


composes atonal music and runs off, _"I'm scared by my own music!"_


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## sworley (6 mo ago)

Mascagni's Il Piccolo Marat and his Lodoletta, Donizetti's Torquato Tasso, Massenet's Esclarmonde


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Dido, Königin von Carthago




(timestamped @44:50)


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> Amen.


But he probably meant Joseph not Michae.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Gian Carlo Menotti's "The Consul" and "The Saint of Bleecker Street"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

OffPitchNeb said:


> Palestrina (Pfitzner)
> La voix humaine (Poulenc)
> Les mamelles de tirésias (Poulenc)
> Fernand Cortez (Spontini)
> ...


I wouldn't have thought *Káťa Kabanová* was either little known or underrated.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"Mendelssohn regarded Reichardt as a major figure in developing the lied, valuing him over his teacher Zelter, and even above Schubert, because he had written, after all, some 1,500 songs over his sixty-two years." 
< Beyond Fingal's Cave: Ossian in the Musical Imagination | James Porter | P. 143 >







Bernamej said:


> he probably meant


J. Haydn




Johann


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

starts off with a recitative, but the orchestral intro to it acts like an overture: 




Romeo und Julie


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Guys, would you please write the names of the composers and operas also as text, not only links ? Links to youtube tend to disappear, and also, text is easier for my orientation.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Trio. Ich muß, ich muß ihn sehen












Haydn - Andromeda e Perseo, Act II Scene 5: Giunta e quell'ora omai...
(btw, there is a recording of the German language version, conducted by Reinhard Goebel, but its tempo is horrendously fast)





Haydn - Andromeda e Perseo, Act I Scene 3: Quelle ch'esposta





Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Aria. Ein Schauspiel für Götter





Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Aria. Erwin! O schau, du wirst gerochen


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

This year have seen a live performance of Jommelli: La cantata e disfida di Don Trastullo.
Ever since I listen to it for a cheerful mood. It feels more... relaxed ??? than Mozart ? Or am I crazy ? The style is similar.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't see Weinberg's "The Passenger" anywhere which astonishes me as it's widely regarded as his masterpiece -- certainly that was the opinion of Shostakovich. This is the only opera I know of set partly in Auschwitz and I would probably rate it as the most moving not written by Janacek ever to have been penned.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> It feels more... relaxed ??? than Mozart ? Or am I crazy ? The style is similar.


Are there any contemporaries of Mozart (active around the same period) whose style you find especially dissimilar to his for that matter? I'm just curious to know what you mean by "similar".


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> Are there any contemporaries of Mozart (active around the same period) whose style you find especially dissimilar to his for that matter? I'm just curious to know what you mean by "similar".


No, I only mean that it is classicism. Or the beginning of it.

Mozart is probably all I know from that era. Certainly so in opera.

EDIT: But somebody in the thread about the importance of Italian music for Europe said, that Mozart was heavily inspired by Naples school of opera. And Jommelli is from Naples school.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

dko22 said:


> I don't see Weinberg's "The Passenger" anywhere which astonishes me as it's widely regarded as his masterpiece -- certainly that was the opinion of Shostakovich. This is the only opera I know of set partly in Auschwitz and I would probably rate it as the most moving not written by Janacek ever to have been penned.


I saw an excerpt from it somewhere on the internet. A girl sings a beautiful song, probably folk song, and then gets executed, while the music goes dissonant. Are there there other pleasantly- beautiful passages like the folk song ? I know it is a gloomy subject, but I am not into too much dissonant music.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

Quite a lot of the opera is what you might call dissonant though the most beautiful passages often do have the simplicity of folksong. Whether it would appeal to you depends on your taste, I guess.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> No, I only mean that it is classicism. Or the beginning of it.
> Mozart is probably all I know from that era. Certainly so in opera.
> EDIT: But somebody in the thread about the importance of Italian music for Europe said, that Mozart was heavily inspired by Naples school of opera. And Jommelli is from Naples school.


But don't you also recognize in Mozart characteristics like-
"_At the beginning of the nineteenth century, before Berlioz's time, some influential critics - for instance, Julien-Louis Geoffroy - rejected Mozart as a foreigner, considering his music 'scholastic', stressing his use of harmony over melody, and the dominance of the orchestra over singing in the operas - all these were considered negative features of 'Germanic' music."_ -Benjamin Perl.




Haydn - Andromeda e Perseo, Act I Scene 4: Qual mi sovrasta, o Ciel


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> But don't you also recognize in Mozart characteristics like-
> "_At the beginning of the nineteenth century, before Berlioz's time, some influential critics - for instance, Julien-Louis Geoffroy - rejected Mozart as a foreigner, considering his music 'scholastic', stressing his use of harmony over melody, and the dominance of the orchestra over singing in the operas - all these were considered negative features of 'Germanic' music."_ -Benjamin Perl.
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, thank you. I don't know that era well, so that music is kind of blurred into a similar mass in my perception. But there is some feeling of being "organised" which creates an emotional barrier for me. Mozart has more of that quality than Jommelli's Don Trastullo. And Michael Haydn even more.

(EDIT: But some if the Mozart's melodies are very tuneful. Mozart is not my main operatic interest, but I love e.g. "La ci darem la mano".)

This is a moment in a romantic opera, Bellini's Il Pirata, which to me feels vaguely "like Mozart" or like the older musical era. Certainly the beginning of that aria. Do you have anything smart to say about it ?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> This is a moment in a romantic opera, Bellini's Il Pirata, which to me feels vaguely "like Mozart" or like the older musical era. Certainly the beginning of that aria. Do you have anything smart to say about it ?


Not sure about that one. But look at this Hummel opera, Mathilde von Guise. Hummel witnessed first-hand Mozart composing and rehearsing Le Nozze di Figaro with singers, since Mozart taught and housed him (free of charge) from 1786 to 1788;


hammeredklavier said:


>


Act I Finale: youtube.com/watch?v=1lKJZAVLhVM


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Not an opera but an operetta this time. I prefer opera but deeply respect this operetta. The story is well put together with surprising twists. The music is rock solid from start to finish. The recording and performance couldn't be better (I was able to follow the whole story without having to reach for the textbook). I listened to it with a big smile from start to finish. I found this work and this recording a real discovery.











This topic is pure gold by the way!


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Usually the most famous operas are also the best. However, the lesser-known operas of the great composers can still be very fascinating. Especially if it concerns an excellent performance. For example I Lombardi from Verdi under Gardelli. An inimitable story but a candy cane of melodies.

Another favorite of mine is this Alzira radio broadcast, 1980 Amsterdam. A complete Dutch cast (the best they had) with Cristina Deutekom and tenor Adriaan van Limpt (at the time the US magazine Variety gift Van Limpt fourth place on the list of tenors, after Domingo, Pavarotti and Carreras.) Nice music, perfect stereo sound (Concertgebouw!) and stunning performance (listen for example to the choir!). Once you start you can't stop listening. Performed in this way, this opera is in no way inferior to Nabucco.

Reviews at the time were very positive. "bouquets flew around the singers' ears" and "a closing applause that would not end".


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Montarsolo said:


> Usually the most famous operas are also the best. However, the lesser-known operas of the great composers can still be very fascinating.


I agree, the main repertoire operas are great. Otherwise they would not be performed. But the opposite is not true. There is a lot of great music that is forgotten and the reasons may be quite random.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

When it comes to Alzira, I agree with Verdi himself who years after he composed it said, "Questa e' propria brutta!"

I _do _like I Lombardi though and I agree about the Gardelli recording. However, the recording from Cremona by Tiziano Severini possibly surpasses it and I wouldn't want to be without either.

This is a pretty fair review of it:
VERDI I Lombardi [RJF]: Classical CD Reviews- Dec 2002 MusicWeb(UK) (musicweb-international.com) 

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> When it comes to Alzira, I agree with Verdi himself who years after he composed it said, "Questa e' propria brutta!"
> 
> I _do _like I Lombardi though and I agree about the Gardelli recording. However, the recording from Cremona by Tiziano Severini possibly surpasses it and I wouldn't want to be without either.
> 
> ...


I'm in the middle of a concentrated period of Verdi listening, and, of the early operas I've listened to so far (*Alzira*, *Attila*, *Aroldo*, *Il Corsaro*, *La Battaglia di Legnano*, *I due Foscari* and *Ernani*) I'd definitely say *Alzira* was the weakest, whilst I was newly impressed by both *Legnano* and *Foscari*. *Ernani *largely justifies its reputation as one of the best early Verdis too.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> the reasons may be quite random.


"I think one of the reasons why he did not get as famous as his brother is that he never wanted his music printed. Joseph Haydn's works really disseminated throughout Europe via printing, and that's what lacks with Michael Haydn's music. And Michael Haydn stayed in Salzburg all the time, so he didn't have the same exposure." -Dr. Eva Neumayr (YA2sTVyDNrA&t=16m44s)
"The fact that his music was not distributed very widely in his lifetime did not help, also the fact that he couldn’t be captured in the narrative of Vienna the musical capital pushed him to the margins.” -Professor David Wyn Jones (interview-with-david-wyn-jones/)




Haydn - Die Wahrheit der Natur, Pt. 3: Fürsten! Euch geht dieses an




Haydn - Andromeda e Perseo, Act II Scene 5: Godan lieti i regi sposi


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Duet. Hörst du, er hat geschworen




Haydn - Die Hochzeit auf der Alm: Aria: Gequaltes Herz! Entdecke mir die Wahrheit deiner pein
"According to contemporary reports, instead of the usual Baroque scenery, in the subsidiary piece the theatre was made up »in the manner of an alpine hut. On one side there was a waterfall, on the other a high mountain cliff. In the morning and evening sunlight [...] one could see the cattle up on the Alpine pastures.« Haydn's _Wedding on the Alpine Pasture (1768)_ was no doubt a pioneering work for the Salzburg Theatre. The individual arias and instrumental movements together with the entire singspiel were adapted by Haydn himself and other composers and - as witness numerous copies of the work - were soon in wide distribution in the abbeys of Kremsmünster and Seitenstetten or being taken further afield by the boatsmen who plied the waters of the Salzach river at Laufen."


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

The progression at 2:44~2:53 somewhat reminds me of that of Mozart's C minor concerto that leads to the final variation.




Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act II. Aria. Mit vollen Athemzügen saug' ich, natur aus dir
"In 1791, Reichardt was given a three year 'sabbatical', which he used to travel to France. When he came back, he published his impressions, showing a strong sympathy for the French revolution. The political differences between Goethe and Reichardt didn't undermine their artistic cooperation though. For Goethe the perspective of his texts to be set to music by a composer of Reichardt's standing was too tempting. As far as we know only two concert performances took place in Berlin in 1793, and these were positively received by the audience."


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

OldFashionedGirl said:


> What operas do you like that are little-know or you considered are underrated? And also what operas do you think deserve to have more recognition?


Massenet, Herodiade. Lalo, Roi D'Ys. Both are underrated and deserve more recognition outside of France..


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Aria. Erwin! O schau, du wirst gerochen


somewhat reminds me of


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Francasacchi said:


> Massenet, Herodiade. Lalo, Roi D'Ys. Both are underrated and deserve more recognition outside of France..


We have all such things in our head, however when push comes to shuffle one time we had Herodiade in two different CS=D boxes, the real enthusiast bought one ore both and the nobody looked at it again. Unknown is unloved.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Rogerx said:


> We have all such things in our head, however when push comes to shuffle one time we had Herodiade in two different CS=D boxes, the real enthusiast bought one ore both and the nobody looked at it again. Unknown is unloved.


It is still performed more often these days in France. Rarely in US there have been concert performances. One wonders if the Met will ever put it on. The Lalo opera was last performed at the Met in the 1920s with Ponselle in the falcon/mezzo role of Margared.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> Unknown is unloved.


_"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference."_


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Trio. Liebes Kind, du siehst uns wieder!
Here, Elmire's parts (0:32~0:56; 1:15~1:32) feel colder than the others': _"Liebe Freunde, kommt ihr wieder? Ach mich hält der Kummer nieder. Sei der Tag auch noch so schön, Kann ihn nicht mit euch begehn." "Dear friends, are you coming back? Oh, my sorrow is holding me down. No matter how beautiful the day, I can't celebrate it with you."_


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Aria. Ein Schauspiel für Götter


What follows this (without break) is another kute melody




Reichardt - Erwin und Elmire: Act I. Wie um uns ein Frühlingswelter


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Here another one. one beautiful aria after another. And all beautifully performed and recorded.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Sublime, the music, the dramatic acting, the filming…
Pure genius !!!!!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> Sublime, the music, the dramatic acting, the filming…
> Pure genius !!!!!


Video not available
Playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner 🙁


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Montarsolo said:


> Usually the most famous operas are also the best. However, the lesser-known operas of the great composers can still be very fascinating. Especially if it concerns an excellent performance. For example I Lombardi from Verdi under Gardelli. An inimitable story but a candy cane of melodies.
> 
> Another favorite of mine is this Alzira radio broadcast, 1980 Amsterdam. A complete Dutch cast (the best they had) with Cristina Deutekom and tenor Adriaan van Limpt (at the time the US magazine Variety gift Van Limpt fourth place on the list of tenors, after Domingo, Pavarotti and Carreras.) Nice music, perfect stereo sound (Concertgebouw!) and stunning performance (listen for example to the choir!). Once you start you can't stop listening. Performed in this way, this opera is in no way inferior to Nabucco.
> 
> Reviews at the time were very positive. "bouquets flew around the singers' ears" and "a closing applause that would not end".


If you ever see the CD's based one the great Jan Derksen, buy them. you wont be disappointed .


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Rogerx said:


> Video not available
> Playback on other websites has been disabled by the video owner 🙁


Owww ! Damn it. It’s Smetana’s Dalibor. It is propulsing me in the high ether of absolute admiration for this overwhelming music. I am speechless.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> Owww ! Damn it. It’s Smetana’s Dalibor. It is propulsing me in the high ether of absolute admiration for this overwhelming music. I am speechless.



I found it going watch it on our TV set later


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Rogerx said:


> If you ever see the CD's based one the great Jan Derksen, buy them. you wont be disappointed .


Yes, I know. I heard him live!



hammeredklavier said:


> What follows this (without break) is another kute melody
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some time ago I listened to this opera. All beautiful arias. But all in all much of the same. Only then did I realize how varied the Mozart operas are.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Montarsolo said:


> Yes, I know. I heard him live!
> 
> 
> 
> Some time ago I listened to this opera. All beautiful arias. But all in all much of the same. Only then did I realize how varied the Mozart operas are.




There are 4 different boxes.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Montarsolo said:


> Some time ago I listened to this opera.


Sorry, I haven't seen your comment to me until now. How many times have you listened?



> All beautiful arias. But all in all much of the same.


In what way? There are klavierlieder and lieder, and they all sound different in terms of texture, accompaniment, treatment of harmony. (eg. "Sieh mich, Heil'ger, wie wie ich bin", "Welch ein Lispen, welch ein Schauer", "Ihr verblühet, süße Rosen", "Kannst du nicht besänftigt werden?"). I can explain to you in terms of harmony that the formal layout and the series of modulations in the free fantasy section of "Mit vollen Athemzügen saug ich, Natur, aus dir" are something Mozart didn't do in opera (and are "forward-looking" in a different way from Mozart). I suspect there's a reason why Schubert and Mendelssohn (who both knew Reichardt's work) didn't outright say _"Mozart was da best [of his time]"_. (Don't get me wrong, I'm moved to tears by Mozart, but it's subjective.) The continuous through-composition (where all the numbers are connected in terms of transitions and modulations) is something Mozart did not try either. People on this forum have complained about the seccos of his operas, for a reason.



> Only then did I realize how varied the Mozart operas are.


Of course, Mozart was writing for a different audience (big opera houses in Vienna) and has things like dazzling coloratura in some characters, the chorale-prelude style, etc, to justify the scale of his. And stylistically in terms of inner voices, maybe more similar to the Salzburg Haydn (compare, for example, the "Ach ich fühl's" with the G minor 3/4-time Et incarnatus est/Crucifixus aria from Missa sancti Aloysii, or the ensemble "Zum Ziele führt dich diese Bahn" with the choral Gradual "Alleluia Surrexit Christus" (or the Gradual "Benedicite Dominum")). But _one could argue_ —due to the too many "distracting elements" he employs, Mozart doesn't achieve the atmosphere of "pure German lied style" of Reichardt.
A certain 18th century Classical period composer (other than Mozart) doesn't have "cadential phrase repetitions", an abomination for some, (and also btw, usually handle the obligatory minuets in symphonies more "thoughtfully" than Mozart does in most of his (I hate to admit, as a Mozart-admirer)). Not everyone values things like Cosi fan tutte and its plot as "variety".


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

Any of Wolf-Ferrari's Operas.


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

Or the Genius that is Gottfied von Einem:


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## Echolane (Nov 19, 2018)

Revenant said:


> Die Tote Stadt by Erich Wolfgang Korngold might fit this category. Aside from the ubiquitous Mariettes Lied, I think the opera itself has been somewhat underrated and deserved more than the one (afaik) recorded version that was available for a long time. I suspect that this might be changing as I've learned that there is a new recording out there.


I think this is a terrific candidate foran under rated opera. I was introduced to it when I came across this aria of Mein Sehnen, Mein Wahnen sung by Stephan Ganz. He has a lighter baritone than most and perhaps that’s one of the reasons I love his version so much. Either way, he has a beautiful style and it’s a very beautiful aria. I can hardly stop listening to it.





i wish I knew which video version to suggest. I settled on the one with James King. And I don’t have a CD version and would welcome recommendations.


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## Echolane (Nov 19, 2018)

I will suggest FEDORA by Giordano as an under appreciated opera. I came across it with The Met broadcast of it and with Domingo and Freni as the main singers. Which, incidentally, I highly recommend. It’s a very beautiful production visually and the secondary cast is wonderful. The plot is a stretch and a weakness. But the music! It really stars! It has some very (to me) seductive motifs that appear as melodic fragments throughout and I am completely captivated. I can also sense the hand of the composer in the music and that is certainly a plus as I love Andrea Chenier. It’s one of those that the more you listen, the more you like it. I’ve had a real struggle to come up with a CD that equals the DVD. I have finally settled on the version with Domingo and Georghiu over the more often recommended del Monaco and Olivero version.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Echolane said:


> I will suggest FEDORA by Giordano as an under appreciated opera. I came across it with The Met broadcast of it and with Domingo and Freni as the main singers. Which, incidentally, I highly recommend. It’s a very beautiful production visually and the secondary cast is wonderful. The plot is a stretch and a weakness. But the music! It really stars! It has some very (to me) seductive motifs that appear as melodic fragments throughout and I am completely captivated. I can also sense the hand of the composer in the music and that is certainly a plus as I love Andrea Chenier. It’s one of those that the more you listen, the more you like it. I’ve had a real struggle to come up with a CD that equals the DVD. I have finally settled on the version with Domingo and Georghiu over the more often recommended del Monaco and Olivero version.


I had that opera on tape milion years ago and I liked to listen to it. However, I know, some people consider it an opera worthy of just one aria (Amor ti vieta).That surprises me. I, at minimum, like the duet between Loris and Fedora, while the pianist is playing in the background.


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## Echolane (Nov 19, 2018)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Johann Strauss II is known for his overtures almost as much as his waltzes... yet only _Die Fledermaus_ seems to have remained in the regular repertoire. This is a loss considering that both _Der Zigeunerbaron_ (The Gypsy Baron) and _Eine Nacht in Venedig_ (A Night in Venice) have much to recommend them... including brilliant post-War recordings with Erich Kunz, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf and Otto Ackermann:
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> ...


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## Echolane (Nov 19, 2018)

BBSVK said:


> I had that opera on tape milion years ago and I liked to listen to it. However, I know, some people consider it an opera worthy of just one aria (Amor ti vieta).That surprises me. I, at minimum, like the duet between Loris and Fedora, while the pianist is playing in the background.


i, too, love the scene you describe, the scene with the piano in the background, it is so moving and so beautiful!!
I also love the final scenes in Act 3. They are as Worthy ending scenes as any in the romantic operas like Manon Lescaut or La Boheme or La Traviata, etc. The music is just gorgeous. I can put this DVD on with Domingo and Freni and play it through over and over without watching it, just reveling in the music. There are no “boring parts”.


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

Wolf Ferrari: Il Segreto di Suzanna, Il Gioielli de la Madonna, Sly, Il Campiello
Nielsen: Maskarade
von Einem: Der Prozess
Menotti: Amelia al Ballo
Giannini: The Taming of the Shrew
Catalani: La Wally
Cilea: L'Arlesiana
Moore: Ballad of Baby Doe
Respighi: Belfagor
de Frumerie: Singoalla
Casella: La favola d'Orfeo
Granados: Goyescas


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Echolane said:


> I think this is a terrific candidate foran under rated opera. I was introduced to it when I came across this aria of Mein Sehnen, Mein Wahnen sung by Stephan Ganz. He has a lighter baritone than most and perhaps that’s one of the reasons I love his version so much. Either way, he has a beautiful style and it’s a very beautiful aria. I can hardly stop listening to it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a pretty neat version in video, 











About CD, I would go with the classic Leinsdorf recording with all the music written by Korngold included:


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

OldFashionedGirl said:


> What operas do you like that are little-know or you considered are underrated? And also what operas do you think deserve to have more recognition?


The Pearl Fishers
La Rondine
La Gioconda
Hamlet


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> Kaiser Constanstin I. Feldzug und Sieg MH117






"... was finished by the composer on February 20, 1769. The date tells us a lot, since theaters were traditionally closed during the Lenten period, and this was the time when oratorios (as kind of “opera substitutes”) were performed, as they required no stage, yet they could be played dramatically. ..." (Országos Széchényi Könyvtár)
The free mood changes in the "Du stirbst, o Held" remind me of


hammeredklavier said:


> Der Baßgeiger zu Wörgl.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Die Toten Augen from d'Albert !!! Incredibly beautiful post wagnerian opera exactly what I love the most. Ordered Tiefland but nothing is more scandalous than realizing this genius composed 22 operas !!!!! And we can hear only 2 !!!!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> theaters were traditionally closed during the Lenten period, and this was the time when oratorios (as kind of “opera substitutes”) were performed, as they required no stage, yet they could be played dramatically.


I noticed this (Der Kampf der Buße und Bekehrung) has become available on youtube again. I believe it was blocked there due to copyright.





The harmonies (@2:52 )-


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> I noticed this (Der Kampf der Buße und Bekehrung) has become available on youtube again. I believe it was blocked there due to copyright.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful !


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bernamej said:


> Beautiful !


A couple more arias from the work you might like-


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

hammeredklavier said:


> A couple more arias from the work you might like-


Odered ! Surprisingly not expensive !


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