# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Semifinal #2): Traubel vs Nilsson



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Helen Traubel, USA, 1899-1972 (defeated Modl 12-5)






Birgit Nilsson, Sweden, 1918-2005 (defeated Stemme 12-8)






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I love Birgit and she is sensational here, but Traubel not only brings her titanic and breathtakingly gorgeous instrument to this material but unlike in a lot of her singing she is really passionate here. I suspect the right conductor helped here. I have listened to Traubel sing this more often by far than Nilsson, though I would have LOVED to have heard Nilsson live in this material. Traubel had a more beautiful voice than Nilsson to my hearing. I don't take lightly the choosing of anyone over Nilsson here I want to emphasize. This is my favorite singing by Traubel. I used this selection in my presentation on Traubel on Youtube about why she became such an incredible singer and what distinguishes her:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love Birgit and she is sensational here, but Traubel not only brings her titanic and breathtakingly gorgeous instrument to this material but unlike in a lot of her singing she is really passionate here. I suspect the right conductor helped here. I have listened to Traubel sing this more often by far than Nilsson, though I would have LOVED to have heard Nilsson live in this material. Traubel had a more beautiful voice than Nilsson to my hearing. I don't take lightly the choosing of anyone over Nilsson here I want to emphasize. This is my favorite singing by Traubel. I used this selection in my presentation on Traubel on Youtube about why she became such an incredible singer and what distinguishes her:


I concur with the above (I'm sure Birgit is pointing her spear at me ) *based solely on the two videos presented above*. I've never heard Traubel so animated, giving her all. Only the period sound works against her, though the voice comes through fine. The shrillness is all in the transfer.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

It is of course impossible too decide as Traublel is recorded on some primitive radio recording. Of course she has the advantage of Toscanini boiling the orchestra behind her which adds to the excitement and makes Solti appear tame. As recorded, Nilsson comes out on top but whether that is due to the advantageous recording is impossible to tell. So interesting comparison but impossible to judge. Like trying to judge Stirling Moss against Lewis Hamilton when Hamilton has the advantage of modern technology.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Not my bailiwick but I searched my gut and, though more strident of voice, there was no doubt that Traubel's presentation is the one that touched me more. Of course, I admit to being quite prejudiced by Tosci's orchestra which absolutely blew my mind and likely swayed my opinion as well.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This may be the most committed and interesting singing I've heard from Traubel in anything operatic. I've frequently found her somewhat lacking in imagination, but perhaps she was energized by Toscanini's magnificent conducting on this occasion. Someone on YouTube says that the studio recording made after this concert is not nearly as good, which suggests that she was more inspired in live performance. Whatever the case, the only thing lacking here is a good top B, which of course Nilsson plucks out of the sky as if she were picking ripe fruit off a tree (is that metaphor too mixed?). There's really nothing wrong with her and Solti, but Traubel and Toscanini are a _Donnersturm._ I've never heard this scene done better. Heda, hedo!

EDIT: Just an afterthought. Before you go to sleep tonight, instruct your subconscious to dream about a world in which you can hear Brunnhilde sung by Helen Traubel, Kirsten Flagstad or Marjorie Lawrence. Keep tissues by the bed for when you wake up and realize it was only a dream.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Nilsson sounds almost dispassionate (but don't you think Immolation scene happens when Brunnhilde have already put all the passions behind her?)
Traubel is much more warm and exciting, but the two high notes off-pitch at the very beginning mar the experience for me ever so slightly. On the other hand, Nilsson is as sure and steady and a surgeon's scalpel. Oh what to do....
Nilsson it is.

P.S. Traubel's version is a studio one (correct?)
Nilsson's is live performance.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Azol said:


> Nilsson sounds almost dispassionate (but don't you think Immolation scene happens when Brunnhilde have already put all the passions behind her?)
> Traubel is much more warm and exciting, but the two high notes off-pitch at the very beginning mar the experience for me ever so slightly. On the other hand, Nilsson is as sure and steady and a surgeon's scalpel. Oh what to do....
> Nilsson it is.
> 
> ...


Nilsson's is the studio with Solti


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> This may be the most committed and interesting singing I've heard from Traubel in anything operatic. I've frequently found her somewhat lacking in imagination, but perhaps she was energized by Toscanini's magnificent conducting on this occasion. Someone on YouTube says that the studio recording made after this concert is not nearly as good, which suggests that she was more inspired in live performance. Whatever the case, the only thing lacking here is a good top B, which of course Nilsson plucks out of the sky as if she were picking ripe fruit off a tree (is that metaphor too mixed?). There's really nothing wrong with her and Solti, but Traubel and Toscanini are a _Donnersturm._ I've never heard this scene done better. Heda, hedo!
> 
> EDIT: Just an afterthought. Before you go to sleep tonight, instruct your subconscious to dream about a world in which you can hear Brunnhilde sung by Helen Traubel, Kirsten Flagstad or Marjorie Lawrence. Keep tissues by the bed for when you wake up and realize it was only a dream.


Wonderful!
I have heard Lawrence but not in this. I need to check her Immolation Scene out.
I think for Traubel singing for Toscanini would have been like singing for a live audience, so charismatic was he. Can you imagine having him in front of her while she sang this. She loved feeling connected to an audience. One big motivating factor in her taking up nightclub singing was that she liked feeling so connected to the audience, which was lacking at the Met until they clapped. She sang more recitals than operas because she never sang any operas till around 40, and then mainly in NYC and Chicago. She sang tons of concerts to make up for almost 20 years when all she did was perfect her voice and had to make money for her future. She went from being basically unemployed to being, beside Melchior, the highest paid singer in the world practically overnight. One other comment about how good she was with a live audience: she was so spectacular in her night club act that in the year after she was fired by Bing, she made $2 million if I remember correctly, double what she was making singing opera. That would be $21 million dollars today! Bing didn't like Wagner much and cut way back on how much she was able to sing at the Met after he took over. She was only allowed to sing Wagner operas. He HATED popular music.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Handelian said:


> Nilsson's is the studio with Solti


No, the audio is actually taken from 1963 concert performance at Covent Garden.
So we are comparing studio to live.

If the idea is to compare studio renditions then it's a wrong one in Nilsson's case.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Where are people getting the idea that either of these is a studio recording? They both end with enthusiastic applause, which is normally a tip-off. The Traubel is from Carnegie Hall; I don't know the year, but I'd guess late 1940s. The Nilsson is from Covent Garden in 1963, one year before the Solti _Gotterdammerung_ was recorded, and it sounds almost identical. It's amusing that they hired a bass to provide Hagen's "Zuruck vom Ring!"; I wonder how much he got paid. Traubel and Toscanini recorded the scene in the studio after doing it in concert, and the result is said to be inferior.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Wodduck said:


> Just an afterthought. Before you go to sleep tonight, instruct your subconscious to dream about a world in which you can hear Brunnhilde sung by Helen Traubel, Kirsten Flagstad or Marjorie Lawrence. Keep tissues by the bed for when you wake up and realize it was only a dream.


I think about this when people say stuff like that Lise Davidsen is a one in a million voice. Well, in say 1937 singing that rep we had Flagstad, Traubel making her debut, Germaine Lubin, Marjorie Lawrence, Frida Leider, Florence Austral, Marta Fuchs and many others. Now we have one Davidsen out of a million. Can I wake up now?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I think about this when people say stuff like that Lise Davidsen is a one in a million voice. Well, in say 1937 singing that rep we had Flagstad, Traubel making her debut, Germaine Lubin, Marjorie Lawrence, Frida Leider, Florence Austral, Marta Fuchs and many others. Now we have one Davidsen out of a million. Can I wake up now?


Sometimes sleep is better.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This was quite hard, but ultimately I went for Traubel who, under Toscanini, gives a more thrillingly committed performance. By comparison the Nilsson performance is at a much lower voltage. The voice itself is fabulous and rather more beautiful than I often gave Nilsson credit for.

In fact both voices are a lot more beautiful than anything we hear these days in this repertoire, and I'm not forgetting Lise Davidsen.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Azol said:


> No, the audio is actually taken from 1963 concert performance at Covent Garden.
> So we are comparing studio to live.
> 
> If the idea is to compare studio renditions then it's a wrong one in Nilsson's case.


OK my mistake then. I assumed when I saw Solti's picture it was the studio recording. Thanks for the correction. I would imagine that Traubel's is from a radio broadcast?


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

As per Woodduck, Traubel one is from Carnegie Hall, so must be broadcast, I think.
At first I thought it to be studio recording but, it turned out, the video stopped playing for me right before applause has kicked in 
So my mistake also.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Azol said:


> As per Woodduck, Traubel one is from Carnegie Hall, so must be broadcast, I think.
> At first I thought it to be studio recording but, it turned out, the video stopped playing for me right before applause has kicked in
> So my mistake also.


Just makes one wish Traubel and Toscanini were recorded in modern sound!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Pass, I can't decide, but I agree that normally I would go for Nilsson, but Traubel is at least her equal in this version of the aria.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Handelian said:


> Just makes one wish Traubel and Toscanini were recorded in modern sound!


Traubel, Leider, Flagstad, Ponselle, Caruso....;-)


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Azol said:


> As per Woodduck, Traubel one is from Carnegie Hall, so must be broadcast, I think.
> At first I thought it to be studio recording but, it turned out, the video stopped playing for me right before applause has kicked in
> So my mistake also.


The Traubel is from 1941 if it is the one I have. Recording is quite primitive of what mus5 have been memorable. Toscanini showing how not to bore the pants off people in Wagner


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