# Kreutzer Violin Sonata? More like a Concerto for Duet than a Sonata



## caters

The Kreutzer Violin Sonata is one of my favorite Duet sonatas by Beethoven. But whenever I listen to it, I get a feeling that is odd for me to get with a sonata. This is the feeling I get:



> This sounds just like a Violin Concerto in it's virtuosity and the alternation between the piano and the violin being the emphasized instrument. What the?! I know that Beethoven is known to have an orchestral sonority to his solo piano, but this brings it to the next level of virtuosity. From the Symphony to the Concerto, so it be with his Piano Sonatas and this Violin Sonata. The Pathetique Sonata, my favorite piano sonata of all time basically amounts to a symphony for Solo Piano. This Violin Sonata sounds like a Violin Concerto. Just imagine if Beethoven actually wrote a Concerto from this Sonata.


It really does sound like a Concerto for Duet. I mean seriously, the piano could be orchestrated and it would become a Concerto in the truest sense of the word. I have listened to several duet sonatas, including some others by Beethoven, but none of the ones I have listened to even come close to this Concerto for Duet that is the Kreutzer Sonata.

Here is the sonata:






It is pretty comparable to this:






Isn't it? Similar amount of virtuosity and similar amount of power, but the Kreutzer Sonata acheives it with just a duet instead of a full orchestra + soloist.

Now for some Duet Sonatas that actually sound like Sonatas to my ears:






Beethoven at his most Mozartian, perhaps composed to convey the influence Mozart had on him as a composer(In retrospect, it almost sounds like a peaceful requiem for Mozart, especially the Largo movement, instead of Mozart's own dramatic requiem)






This supposed Duet Sonata by Mozart sounds like a simple expansion of a regular Piano Sonata

Neither of those 2 duet sonatas are comparable to the Kreutzer Sonata in anything other than ensemble.

*Seriously, does Beethoven get any closer to a concerto within the confines of a Duet than his Kreutzer Sonata?*


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## hammeredklavier

I think Mozart K379 is the closest thing to a model for Beethoven's Kreutzer










Schubert knew this piece (so I'm sure Beethoven probably also did):


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## KenOC

It's no surprise the Kreutzer sounds like a concerto. In his sketchbook he titled it ‎”Sonata per il Pianoforte ed uno violino obligato in uno stile molto concertante come d’un concerto” (Sonata for piano and violin obbligato in a very concerted style as if a concerto‎).


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## EdwardBast

KenOC said:


> It's no surprise the Kreutzer sounds like a concerto. In his sketchbook he titled it ‎"Sonata per il Pianoforte ed uno violino obligato in uno stile molto concertante come d'un concerto" (Sonata for piano and violin obbligato in a very concerted style as if a concerto‎).


Thank you Ken.

Caters: Note that the first movement's repeated exposition with both soloist and piano playing is the way classical sonatas are structured, not concertos.


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## Heliogabo

You may enjoy this arrangement (as I did)


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## caters

Heliogabo said:


> You may enjoy this arrangement (as I did)


Wow, I didn't know such a concerto arrangement existed.


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