# experimenters



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I reproduce here a conversation with a (compulsively philosophical) friend. The original subject was a study regarding stem cells and aging, using mice.

"Tissues were successfully transformed back into an embryonic state, but 
without further direction they rapidly developed into tumours.

Speaking on Science In Action on the BBC World Service, Prof Serrano said: "Of 
course this is not what we want for regenerative medicine." "

Me: Have you aver wished you were a laboratory mouse?

The friend:​Maybe we all are. Huge chunks of our lives run counter to our expectations, our hard-wiring, our design. All kinds of things in our environment - some of apparently natural origin - are causing cancers. Maybe our environment, our very planet, is a lab, controlled by experimenters we cannot perceive (for they are made of dark matter imbued by dark energy.)

Then again, why experiment? Why, but to try and determine the reasons for things that cannot be otherwise understood, to gain knowledge, and so too power, to gain control over what threatens one's lives. Because - here's the real rub - the experimenters are driven by their own doom as lab rats themselves, imprisoned like fractals in ever greater labs, subject to whims of ever greater and more inscrutable experimenters. I have no doubt that our lab rats run their own primitive experiments on fleas and worms, trying them different ways between their teeth, sometimes spitting them back out for perusal. And then the fleas must also have subject experimentees - mites, I suppose - who they torment in turn, but the experimenting behavior of fleas is not known, for their lives are too inscrutably small, as opposed to too large, to see and study. Aaah!! The Forceps!!

[When I'm around this guy, I stay alert!]


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

My question. How does a free world uncontrolled by galactic dark energy experimenters look different from our world your friend purports to be controlled by galactic dark energy experimenters?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> My question. How does a free world uncontrolled by galactic dark energy experimenters look different from our world your friend purports to be controlled by galactic dark energy experimenters?


_Couchie_, I am confident that your imagination is up to the task. Answer your question. What anomalies in our environment (social, medical, 'natural') are the work of those GDE bogies? By anomalies I mean stuff that really _ain't_ our own fault.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

i don't understand why natural substances that cause cancer, or any other disease, are an abnormality or an indication of some fault "in the system". Radiation is abundant across the universe, but if we experience a bit too much (or a certain kind of it) it becomes poisonous to our cells. As every other substance, such as vitamins. Too much vitamin A and you can get osteoporosis. 

Animals might experiment to a certain degree with various tools or hunting techniques in order to achieve the most efficient way of gaining food. I would like to know how mites perceive the fungus they grow - do they actually choose the best yielding spores? There is a certain vibe of we being controlled and observed by other probable beings in his answer, but I honestly think it's a mere mental exercise in an hypothetical situation.

Edit: I think I might be lost.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couchie said:


> My question. How does a free world uncontrolled by galactic dark energy experimenters look different from our world your friend purports to be controlled by galactic dark energy experimenters?


Conspiracy theories are neatly tidy, and save a lot of mental effort


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Chrythes said:


> There is a certain vibe of we being controlled and observed by other probable beings in his answer, but I honestly think it's a mere mental exercise in an hypothetical situation.


so do I. As long as there's no palpable evidence to believe it, it's just an anxiety inducing exercise.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

deggial said:


> so do I. As long as there's no palpable evidence to believe it, it's just an anxiety inducing exercise.


Anxiety inducing? That would seem to be a contraindicated involvement, eh?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Huge chunks of our lives run counter to our expectations, our hard-wiring, our design. All kinds of things in our environment - some of apparently natural origin - are causing cancers. Maybe our environment, our very planet, is a lab, controlled by experimenters we cannot perceive (for they are made of dark matter imbued by dark energy.)


1) Very little of my life runs counter to my general expectations. Since I am not omniscient, I expect I will encounter _some_ things I don't understand and might be surprising. 
2) I'm not sure I know anything that runs counter to our hard-wiring or design. How could it?
3) I think everything that causes cancer is of natural origin. I'm glad that mutations, which cause some cancers, exist since otherwise, I would not exist.
4) The dark matter experimenters (DMEs) hypothesis is an example of hypotheses which are problematic because they solve no problems and would greatly add to our questions. couchie's question shows that DMEs do not help our understanding of anything. If they did exist, we would have enormous problems explaining how they could experiment with us (how do they interact with us in ways that would allow them to experiment?) without our having evidence of their existence? This is similar to attempting to "explain" consciousness by postulating an inanimate mind.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> _Couchie_, I am confident that your imagination is up to the task. Answer your question. What anomalies in our environment (social, medical, 'natural') are the work of those GDE bogies? By anomalies I mean stuff that really _ain't_ our own fault.


First you need to qualify what an "anomaly" is. If I dropped a teacup and it landed on the ceiling, to me that would be an anomaly. Getting cancer is not an anomaly. It is a common disease.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Anxiety inducing? That would seem to be a contraindicated involvement, eh?


yet that's exactly how anxiety works... much like _calunnia_, is starts as a little breeze only to escalate into a tornado of hysteria.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hah. I find the reactions to this thread very unlike those that I expected. I wonder if it's a Sign Of The Times?


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

You might get better responses on the David Icke forums


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Garlic said:


> You might get better responses on the David Icke forums


In this sort of thread, 'better' has nothing to hitch to. The responses are what they are. I guess I am conditioned by my longtime interest in science fiction to expect a willingness to extrapolate. In my geezerly opinion SF has suffered a calamitous decline in quality over the past few decades; maybe that explains... something?


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

We don't dream anymore, just float along the facts?


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Garlic said:


> You might get better responses on the David Icke forums


Lizard person spotted!!!!!!


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