# Classical Music and Time



## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

Classical music demands time--time for sustained, attentive listening, time for re-listening, time for comparative listening, time for reflection.

I recently listened for the first time to Dvorak's 3rd string quartet, which clocks in at a whopping 64 minutes! Antonin Dvorak: String Quartet No. 3

Obviously that is nothing compared with Feldman's 2nd quartet, which lasts some 6 hours.

Epic length in chamber works is rare enough to be remarked upon, but it has become standard in symphonies. At an hour in length, Mahler's 1st and 4th symphonies are his shortest. Supposedly the longest symphony to be regularly performed in concert halls is Mahler's 3rd, lasting approximately 90 minutes.

Of course the legend goes the maximum length of a compact disc was based upon the length of a standard performance of Beethoven's 9th.

My three favorite chamber works are all by Schubert: the string quartet in G, D.887; the octet in F, D.803; and the string quintet in C, D.956. Each lasts (with 1st movement repeats observed) just under an hour in performance. Not everyone finds the length of these pieces as "heavenly," to paraphrase Schumann.

Your thoughts on duration, time, attention in classical music/in different genres (chamber, concertante, symphonic)? Is there a limit to your attention span? Do you prefer intense concentration or heavenly length?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

The one work that I cannot do is Bach's WTC. It takes me at least two and ideally four sittings to get through that without my wind wandering not just its usual amount, but a huge amount. I suspect it may be one of those works more beloved of performers than listeners... which relates to my theory that a lot of classical music is really for the performers to enjoy performing rather than for the audience to enjoy hearing. Of course at times it is almost explicitly so, as when a performer commissions a work. Anyway, that's a whole nother thing. 

Mahler can be taxing sometimes, and I used to find Bruckner hard to sit through but he's grown on me now to the point that I might even start to call myself a fan. 

I haven't tried Feldman's huge quartet. My great accomplishment in the length marathon is Sciarrino's Sui poemi concentrici, which is about 3 hours long, and somehow it holds my attention pretty well.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Sorry, but when I read the thread's title I took it differently. What makes classical music unique among musics to me is its ability to take me 'out of time'. There are some interpretations of some works that draw me into a realm in which, though there is progression, it doesn't seem to involve Time. The Prague String recording of Mussorgsky's "Pictures" by Richter does that.

To return to your intent - we need time to step out of time ind into the music.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

science said:


> The one work that I cannot do is Bach's WTC.


WTC? I find abbreviations problematic as I often don't know what the original person is on about, as in this post. Please clarify.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Music of one hour and less is not usually a problem for me because there are always evenings when I am home and I can find this time within a normal evening at home. 

Longer works like operas require a different technique. For a long time I 'belonged to' a group where we put Sunday afternoons and evenings aside to explore an opera. We first listened to one version from start to finish - with scores and/or libretti (I find a piano score with the words and a translation into English is ideal if one is available) and then we stopped for high tea/supper after which we listened to selected arias in other versions and chatted about these. It was fun, but it did involve a LOT of time. We began at 15:00-16:00 (depending on the run time of the opera), had supper/high tea from 18:00 to 19:00 and then worked until 21:00 after which we had coffee and cake. So it was pretty intense, but also deliciously social. I miss those days.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Moira said:


> WTC? I find abbreviations problematic as I often don't know what the original person is on about, as in this post. Please clarify.


Well Tempered Clavier. I don't know if _science_ means both books or either of them.

I can usually stay with Book II, but need help with the fugues in Book I, an interpreter who 'brings out' the voices for me.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Well Tempered Clavier. I don't know if _science_ means both books or either of them.
> 
> I can usually stay with Book II, but need help with the fugues in Book I, an interpreter who 'brings out' the voices for me.


Thanks for clarifying.

What I meant was that I cannot do the whole of both books at a single sitting (well, I do actually, but by the end it simply hurts and I'm relieved that it's over rather than by the music). I need at least two sittings (one for each book) and ideally four (one for about half of each book).


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

I have to agree with Hilltroll72 with this one.
The music has the capacity to take "time" out of the equation
The last live piece I went to was a piano piece, when it had finished, it felt as though only minutes had passed rather than an hour


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

If a work is going to be significantly longer than normal it should be appreciably better than normal I guess. The Schubert quartet and quintet are fine for length; the Octet I find too long. 

Re above: I can't see the WTC as a single work. It just isn't. They gain nothing from being listened to in one go. If you want to listen to a Wagner opera's worth of fugues played on a single instrument in one sitting then more power to you, but I'd become pretty bored after listening to four hours of any solo piano music, never mind four hours of intricate counterpoint (which obviously requires a good deal more concentration than usual). I don't really see the individual books as single works either, though I suppose listening to an individual book in one sitting is possibly enjoyable (I've never tried).


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

jalex said:


> ...though I suppose listening to an individual book in one sitting is possibly enjoyable (I've never tried).


maybe, unless it is played on harpsichord and then I'd want to hear it from about 3 city blocks away so it would sound like a wind chime.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

NightHawk said:


> maybe, unless it is played on harpsichord and then I'd want to hear it from about 3 city blocks away so it would sound like a wind chime.


I'm good for about 15 minute 'sessions' from a harpsichord. The Goldbergs I can enjoy, if the instrument and the harpsichordist do it 'right'.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Sorry, but when I read the thread's title I took it differently. What makes classical music unique among musics to me is its ability to take me 'out of time'. There are some interpretations of some works that draw me into a realm in which, though there is progression, it doesn't seem to involve Time. The Prague String recording of Mussorgsky's "Pictures" by Richter does that.
> 
> To return to your intent - we need time to step out of time ind into the music.


So true, and thus the music--and our very experience with and perception of it--in a sense, *become timeless *themselves.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I think Harpsichord is great in the continuo setting, esp the rich 17th century ones with lutes and theorbo, and gambas - I never cared for the D.Scarlatti Sonatas b/c my first experience was on the H, then I heard them on the piano, and wow - what great, inventive pieces. I need to get Rosalyn Tureck's Goldbergs on harpsichord, I think I've read she does an amazing job.



Hilltroll72 said:


> I'm good for about 15 minute 'sessions' from a harpsichord. The Goldbergs I can enjoy, if the instrument and the harpsichordist do it 'right'.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

I like to multi-task and listen while doing something else. Setting that up takes time, but from then on its timeless.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Listening to the whole _Well-Tempered Clavier_ in one sitting? You people have some endurance. 

Do you bring popcorn or what? And which recording do you use?


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