# Mozart's Abduction from the Seraglio.......



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

This opera seems never to be included in Wolfy's great works.
I love this opera as much as any of his others.
Its melodies are heavenly, and to me, as beautiful and wondrous as those from his big 4.

How do you feel about it.
Anyone else love this work?
:tiphat::tiphat:


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I loved Entführung before I appreciated any of the Da Ponte operas, and still probably listen to it more often than Don Giovanni, Cosi, or Magic Flute.

Entführung requires, I think, more overt vocal virtuosity than Mozart's more mature operas, so it takes great singers to have its proper effect. The later works can stand lesser vocal performances.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It's great fun if the singers are up to it. I'm always grateful for the absence of _recitativo secco_. But why did Mozart choose to write a sinfonia concertante for "Martern aller Arten"? What are the characters supposed to do during two minutes of introduction? And it's such joyful music; you don't expect Konstanze's first words to be "Tortures of every kind"! Not that it matters much when it's sung like this:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I like it. One of my favourite elements is Blonde's no-nonsense approach when keeping the oafish Osman at bay. Also Mozart doesn't overdo the 'Turkishness' of the music for the Pasha too much. The ending is a little bathetic but I'd rather have that than some over-elaborate endgame involving letters, handkerchiefs, hiding in cupboards, disguises etc. Some have commented on its possible anti-Turkish stance (the neighbouring Holy Roman and Ottoman empires were often adversaries until the late 18th century), but if there was one it doesn't seem particularly heartfelt, as the unsavoury behaviour of Osmin is eclipsed by the mercy bestowed by the Pasha.

Come to think of it, _Die Entführung aus dem Serail_ is the oldest opera I have in terms of when it was composed.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> I like it. One of my favourite elements is Blonde's no-nonsense approach when keeping the oafish Osman at bay. Also Mozart doesn't overdo the 'Turkishness' of the music for the Pasha too much. The ending is a little bathetic but I'd rather have that than some over-elaborate endgame involving letters, handkerchiefs, hiding in cupboards, disguises etc. Some have commented on its possible anti-Turkish stance (the neighbouring Holy Roman and Ottoman empires were often adversaries until the late 18th century), but if there was one it doesn't seem particularly heartfelt, as the unsavoury behaviour of Osmin is eclipsed by the mercy bestowed by the Pasha.
> 
> Come to think of it, _Die Entführung aus dem Serail_ is the oldest opera I have in terms of when it was composed.


Gluck might be a good next step?


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

I adore this opera, I feel like it's where the youthful Mozart meets the mature Mozart, and he lets his musical imagination run wild.

Such an abundance of riches! Also there is something light-hearted and sunny about it which is not so much the case with the later operas, all of which have darker undertones.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Ulfilas said:


> Gluck might be a good next step?


Thanks for the suggestion and I'm sure it's a good one, but as regards hearing unfamiliar opera I've got no real desire to chronologically work my way backwards - outside of Mozart what interest I have in opera lies in the 19th and 20th centuries.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Thanks for the suggestion and I'm sure it's a good one, but as regards hearing unfamiliar opera I've got no real desire to chronologically work my way backwards - outside of Mozart what interest I have in opera lies in the 19th and 20th centuries.


Fair enough...but if you want something mainstream (used to be standard repertoire) this recording is sheer perfection:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Duly noted. mmmmmmmm


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Just buy the Solti one and you will be hooked.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Just buy the Solti one and you will be hooked.


Not one of my favorite recordings, mostly due to Solti, who conducts the work without much wit or charm. But I'm also not fond of his cast, Winbergh aside. Gruberova has one of those voices that just rubs me the wrong way, and Talvela's voice rarely recorded well.

My imprint version was Fricsay's, and it's still a favorite. I know that Greindl gets a bad rap most of the time, but Osmin needs a big, deep, black voice, and there's none blacker than Greindl's. And Stader, Streich, and Haefliger are excellent. And while I'm not a big fan of Böhm in Mozart (he doesn't have much more charm than Solti), Kurt Moll's Osmin is unmissable. As is Robert Lloyd's for Colin Davis, another favorite recordings.

And for HIP, I really enjoy Jacobs' recording.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

wkasimer said:


> Not one of my favorite recordings, mostly due to Solti, who conducts the work without much wit or charm. But I'm also not fond of his cast, Winbergh aside. Gruberova has one of those voices that just rubs me the wrong way, and Talvela's voice rarely recorded well.
> 
> My imprint version was Fricsay's, and it's still a favorite. I know that Greindl gets a bad rap most of the time, but Osmin needs a big, deep, black voice, and there's none blacker than Greindl's. And Stader, Streich, and Haefliger are excellent. And while I'm not a big fan of Böhm in Mozart (he doesn't have much more charm than Solti), Kurt Moll's Osmin is unmissable. As is Robert Lloyd's for Colin Davis, another favorite recordings.
> 
> And for HIP, I really enjoy Jacobs' recording.


Well, each his own I guess, I do love the Solti but can also b warmed by others, specially the Les Arts Florissants, William Christie.
Bostridge is so good in that one.


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Ulfilas said:


> Gluck might be a good next step?


A Gluck opera with a similar orientalist setting is "The pilgrimage to Mecca".


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

A few days ago this recent Glyndebourne "Serail" was posted on You tube.

Worth a watch.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Mt favorite so far is Beecham EMI.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

Itullian said:


> This opera seems never to be included in Wolfy's great works.
> I love this opera as much as any of his others.
> Its melodies are heavenly, and to me, as beautiful and wondrous as those from his big 4.
> 
> ...


I love _Die Entführung.._. Not sure though if it's not included in his 'great works'. From books, articles and magazines I have read since my early years as classical music lover, each and every opera from _Idomeneo_ is considered to be a masterwork. With _La finta giardiniera_ as some kind of a prologue. _Die Entführung_ is also one of those rare Mozart works that were hugely popular right from the first performance, and it has been, as far as I know, ever since.

It's very nice and great fun to experience _Die Enthührung_ live, in an opera house or 'concertante' on stage.

It's impossible for me to mention a favourite recording. I have 7 recordings of this work and I enjoyed Böhm, Solti, Hogwood and Gardiner, but I think I prefer Krips, Harnoncourt and maybe Mackerras. I don't know the Jacobs recording... that could be another good to very good one. But I kinda stopped collecting all those amazing Mozart operas and its multiple recordings. So far I'm very pleased with what I have.



Woodduck said:


> It's great fun if the singers are up to it. I'm always grateful for the absence of _recitativo secco_. But why did Mozart choose to write a sinfonia concertante for "Martern aller Arten"? What are the characters supposed to do during two minutes of introduction? And it's such joyful music; you don't expect Konstanze's first words to be "Tortures of every kind"! Not that it matters much when it's sung like this:


The Konstanze part was meant to be something special, I think (maybe also because Mozart had just fallen in love with a Konstanze ). Mozart wanted to impress the audience, and, of course, especially the Emperor, because he wanted to make the grade in Wien. The first Konstanze, Caterina Cavalieri, was known as a great virtuoso soprano, and also the other singers (esp. Ludwig Fischer as Osmin) and the orchestra were known to be very good. So Mozart was both 'forced' and able to give all he had.

Which he did. :tiphat:


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

My reference recording is Gardiner on DG/Archiv, largely because of his conducting, and Luba Organasova's fabulous Konstanze - I can't imagine anyone else in that role now.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

This one is so much fun to watch.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

This was the first opera I ever loved. After watching _Amadeus_, I went to the record store the next day and bought this work. Then, a few weeks later, I bought Figaro and that is still my favorite opera. I've been all over Idomeneo this week and that is definitely up there with Figaro and Don Giovanni with me.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)




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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)




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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> It's great fun if the singers are up to it. I'm always grateful for the absence of _recitativo secco_. But why did Mozart choose to write a sinfonia concertante for "Martern aller Arten"? What are the characters supposed to do during two minutes of introduction? And it's such joyful music; you don't expect Konstanze's first words to be "Tortures of every kind"! Not that it matters much when it's sung like this:


Are you still trying to figure that out? You mentioned it in another thread. Heh heh.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

This duet near the end is great music.
Léopold Simoneau & Pierrette Alarie"; "Welch ein Geschick"


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Open Book said:


> Are you still trying to figure that out? You mentioned it in another thread. Heh heh.


No one has yet provided a reasonable explanation. but I'm not losing sleep over it, so don't worry about me. :tiphat:


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

From Wikipedia, the instrumentation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Entf%C3%BChrung_aus_dem_Serail#Instrumentation

"The singers perform with a Classical-era orchestra: pairs of flutes (2nd doubling piccolo), oboes, clarinets, bassoons, horns, trumpets, a set of two timpani, and strings. They are augmented with the instruments needed for "Turkish" music: bass drum, cymbals, triangle, and piccolo. The aria, "Traurigkeit ward mir zum Lose", is augmented by a basset horn.[citation needed]

The orchestra for the premiere included a number of eminent musicians of the day: first cellist Joseph Franz Weigl, first oboist Josef Triebensee, second horn Joseph Leutgeb, and the clarinettist brothers Anton and Johann Stadler. In the first violin section was Franz de Paula Hofer, who later became Mozart's brother-in-law.[33] The four musicians who played the "Turkish" instruments remain anonymous, though it is known that they were recruited for this purpose by one Franz Tyron, Kapellmeister of the Austrian Second Field Artillery Regiment."

I wonder if Mozart wrote any other music employing two timpani--isn't it rare in music from the classical period? Or the other percussion for that matter. And pairs of flutes, plural, really? I love the "Turkish" character Mozart achieves.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> It's great fun if the singers are up to it. I'm always grateful for the absence of _recitativo secco_. But why did Mozart choose to write a sinfonia concertante for "Martern aller Arten"? What are the characters supposed to do during two minutes of introduction? And it's such joyful music; you don't expect Konstanze's first words to be "Tortures of every kind"! Not that it matters much when it's sung like this:


Firstly, I love Edda Moser in this music. 
Secondly, I saw a Glyndebourne production on YouTube in which Constanze and the Pasha engaged in some heavy petting and a quasi-rape scene during the sinfonia concertante passage. The Pasha was a very attractive man and Constanze was obviously drawn to him. I think it was a very effective use of the time.





Die Entführung Aus Dem Serail Robin Ticciati, conductor Glyndebourne 2015

Marten Aller Arten at about 1:13:00


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

MAS said:


> I saw a Glyndebourne production on YouTube in which Constanze and the Pasha engaged in some heavy petting and a quasi-rape scene during the sinfonia concertante passage. The Pasha was a very attractive man and Constanze was obviously drawn to him. I think it was a very effective use of the time.
> 
> Die Entführung Aus Dem Serail Robin Ticciati, conductor Glyndebourne 2015
> 
> Marten Aller Arten at about 1:13:00


This is a plausible interpretive element and a productive use of all that time before Constanze actually sings in "Martern Aller Arten".

I think Woodduck will approve.


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