# EMI vs Decca Opera Catalogs



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Which in your opinion wins the opera catalog contest?
Which do you prefer?
Whose artists do you prefer?
Which label do you have the most of?
Thanks


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Mostly EMI because of Callas.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Since I don't have to choose, I'll take both.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Both have such merits thus hard to choose


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

EMI - but not because of Callas, rather because of Sutherland, Bonynge, Pavarotti


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> EMI - but not because of Callas, rather because of Sutherland, Bonynge, Pavarotti


Ouch! Right on, sister. My _actual _sister agrees; she enjoys Pavarotti, but can't stand the fact that Sutherland seems to stick to him like the glue that holds her mandibles together. My favorite Pavarottti recording is his early _L'Amico Fritz _with Freni, and - wouldn' ya know? - it's on EMI.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Good debate starter. I feel like Decca tended to go for the splashier side, _viz_. Solti. Exciting, dramatic, technicolor sound. EMI was more understated when it came to production techniques, but they have so many classics: the Furtwängler _Tristan_, the Callas recordings (particularly the de Sabata _Tosca_), young Giulini and old Klemperer. I think the best comparison is Karajan's 1955 mono _Die Fledermaus_ for EMI, compared to his 1960 stereo _Die Fledermaus_ for Decca. (Maybe the second-best comparison is Karajan's mono _Madama Butterfly_ for EMI vs. his stereo recording of it for Decca.) There's less visceral excitement in many of EMI's recordings, but there is also more to find under the surface. Of course I wouldn't want to be without either. But I think I would give EMI the nod if I had to choose one. Special plaudits to Decca for technical excellence and creativity, though, reinventing what it meant to make an opera recording in the early age of stereo sound. I'm sure the engineers and producers at both companies influenced each other indirectly through intense competition and one-upmanship.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Monsalvat said:


> Good debate starter. I feel like Decca tended to go for the splashier side, _viz_. Solti. Exciting, dramatic, technicolor sound. ...Special plaudits to Decca for technical excellence and creativity, though, reinventing what it meant to make an opera recording in the early age of stereo sound.


This is true, but I don't find all of Decca's engineering experiments successful. Early on, their sound perspectives tended to flatter orchestras more than singers, with large voices recessed and diminished in an ovrreverberant acoustic. Give me the EMI 1952 monaural _Tristan_'s accoustic any day over Decca's 1960 stereo effort, with Birgit Nilsson upstaged by Solti's screaming orchestra. It took John Culshaw a while to realize that that supposed "opera-house perspective" wasn't really the way live opera strikes the ear. It probably helped that Nilsson had the ego, good sense and frankness to complain about it.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Two 'extremes', John Culshaw and his so-called opera-house perspective, and Walter Legge who resisted the advantages of stereo for far too long.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I took this to mean of which company do I have the most recordings. I said above, EMI, but I do have some Decca recordings which I treasure: the Solti *Ring *and the early Sutherland records and the few precious Flagstad excerpts from that tetralogy, and the Sutherland/Horne *Semiramide*.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Ouch! Right on, sister. My _actual _sister agrees; she enjoys Pavarotti, but can't stand the fact that Sutherland seems to stick to him like the glue that holds her mandibles together. My favorite Pavarottti recording is his early _L'Amico Fritz _with Freni, and - wouldn' ya know? - it's on EMI.


Just as my favourite Sutherland recording is her Donna Anna for Giulini, which is also on EMI.


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## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

The vast majority of my CD's are from EMI.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Definitely EMI for me. Almost all my favourite singers recorded for EMI; Callas, Schwarzkopf, De Los Angeles, Baker, Ludwig, Gobbi, and in a choice between Del Monaco and Di Stefano, which it often was back in the day, I'd have gone for Di Stefano. Almost all my favourite Karajan recordings were made for EMI. 

I prize Decca's Britten recordings and Mackerras's Janacek operas, but for core repertoire, it's definitely EMI and I have far more EMI recordings in my collection. Sad to think that EMI no longer exists.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Sad to think that EMI no longer exists.


Do _any_ of the big record companies still exist?

I know, I know... Go ahead and make fun of a helpless, confused old man.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Do _any_ of the big record companies still exist?
> 
> I know, I know... Go ahead and make fun of a helpless, confused old man.


Well yes. Although Decca, DG and Philips all come under the Universal banner, they still exist. When EMI was broken up and Warner bought the classical part of their catalogue, they were expressly forbidden from naming EMI anywhere on their issues. Here's an example.

















Not only has the label changed but the Warner issue has had to omit EMI from the title, which more accurately described the original issue, as Baker also recorded for Decca and Philips.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> When EMI was broken up and Warner bought the classical part of their catalogue, they were expressly forbidden from naming EMI anywhere on their issues. Here's an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you or anyone else know why EMI forbade Warner the use of their logo? Seems rather foolish as Decca and DG logos are still here with us even though they have been sold to Universal, as EMI was sold to Warner.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Otis B. Driftwood said:


> The vast majority of my CD's are from EMI.


So are mine. Though I have noticed I have slightly more orchestral works from the Decca catalog than the EMI.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Subutai said:


> *Do you or anyone else know why EMI forbade Warner the use of their logo?* Seems rather foolish as Decca and DG logos are still here with us even though they have been sold to Universal, as EMI was sold to Warner.


EMI had no role to play in any of this - It was a marketing decision made by Warner Classics to unify their varied acquisitions under a single name... kind of like Russia's current attempt to re-brand Europe...



https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/latest-news/emi-classics-and-virgin-classics-join-warners/



July, 2013 -

"All artists and catalogues on the Virgin Classics label will now be looked after by the newly-revived Erato Label, while artists and catalogues previously on EMI Classics will now come under the banner of Warner Classics.

A statement on Twitter from the EMI Classics account broke the news this afternoon. According to the statement, "Following their acquisition of EMI Classics and Virgin Classics, Warner Music Group (WMG) has announced the first step in their plans to bring the artists from these highly respected labels into the Warner Music Family."

At the time of that sale, Music Week reported that an *internal memo from WMG CEO Steve Cooper* confirmed that a new brand would be created to sustain the acquired catalogues: *"Our acquisition of the renowned labels, EMI Classics and Virgin Classics, will open up huge scope for us to reinvigorate our approach to classical music, starting with the development of a new brand for our activities in this genre."*


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> EMI had no role to play in any of this - It was a marketing decision made by Warner Classics to unify their varied acquisitions under a single name... kind of like Russia's current attempt to re-brand Europe...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I heard it also had something to do with the fact that Warner just bought the classical division and that the pop side was still part of EMI.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I heard it also had something to do with the fact that Warner just bought the classical division and that the pop side was still part of EMI.


That could very well be - I've been trying to make sense of this page but its less than linear chronology and inexact use of terminology with varying definitions requires a level of commitment that I, for one, completely lack.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMI_Records


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Shaughnessy said:


> EMI had no role to play in any of this - It was a marketing decision made by Warner Classics to unify their varied acquisitions under a single name... kind of like Russia's current attempt to re-brand Europe..


Thanks for that. Seems a silly idea by Warner as the EMI logo was a stamp of quality/pedigree, which just doesn't happen with a Warner logo. Very much with us with DG and Decca logos still adorning their recordings. Shame.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Becca said:


> Two 'extremes', John Culshaw and his so-called opera-house perspective, and Walter Legge who resisted the advantages of stereo for far too long.


It wasn’t Legge, but his superiors at old-fashioned EMI who wouldnt let him take the stereo recording equipment to La Scala. The stereo *Il Barbiere di Siviglia *was recorded in London.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Even at Decca, Culshaw wrote that for some time, stereo recordings had to be made in secret. The senior producers would be in the normal production room with monaural equipment, interfacing directly with the artists; more junior producers would be in a separate room and the stereo production work would be done without the artists' knowledge. I believe he wrote that there was a fear that artists would demand greater fees for stereo. Victor Olof was adamant about mono. I got a sense from both _Ring Resounding_ and _Putting the Record Straight_ that there was a constant, ever-growing tension between Culshaw and his superiors at Decca. He believed that they were unwilling to take risks and this made them unable to adapt, or to spot potential opportunities. 


MAS said:


> It wasn’t Legge, but his superiors at old-fashioned EMI who wouldnt let him take the stereo recording equipment to La Scala. The stereo *Il Barbiere di Siviglia *was recorded in London.


Thanks for clearing this up for me. I had read that Legge resisted stereo, and I had also read that Legge wanted to embrace stereo. Karajan's stereophonic recording of Beethoven's Eighth Symphony with the Philharmonia Orchestra was recorded in May 1955 (so even earlier than Decca's now-famous Keilberth _Ring_ in stereo), and Legge was the producer! The recording was made in Kingsway Hall, London. This was less than six months after Furtwängler's death! 

I will also note that EMI really nailed the art of making a monaural opera recording. Karajan's _Hänsel und Gretel_, or the studio Furtwängler recordings prove this. The aural perspectives and balances are fantastic in these early-'50s recordings made on magnetic tape. If we only consider mono recordings, I think EMI has the better catalogue by a mile.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MAS said:


> It wasn’t Legge, but his superiors at old-fashioned EMI who wouldnt let him take the *stereo recording equipment* to La Scala. The stereo Il Barbiere di Siviglia was *recorded in London*.


This is probably the only chance that I'll ever have to use this link to a Ph.D thesis entitled "Recording classical music in Britain: The long 1950s" written by Terence William Curran and so I had better not pass up this opportunity -



https://ora.ox.ac.uk/catalog/uuid:2340cf56-c2be-4c0b-b5a6-2cfe06c22fe4/download_file?file_format=application%2Fpdf&safe_filename=Curran%2C%2BTerence%2BDPhil%2BThesis%2Bv31%2BORA%2Bdissemination%2Bversion.pdf



"Part III consists of five case studies. The first is of HMV’s 1952 mono recording of Wagner’s Tristan und Isolde, conducted by Wilhelm Furtwängler; not only was this the first complete studio recording of the work but also the first complete opera to be recorded by HMV on magnetic tape.

The second study is of Decca’s 1958 stereo recording of Britten’s Peter Grimes, conducted by the composer, in what is an early example of the stereo opera productions associated with John Culshaw.

The third study is of Decca’s 1966-67 recording of Strauss’s Elektra, conducted by Sir Georg Solti. Although falling slightly outside the core period of this thesis, this recording was one of Culshaw’s last major recording projects – arguably therefore representing the culmination of his influential work of the 1950s – and also the subject of a prolonged debate in the pages of High Fidelity magazine about the legitimacy of aspects of Decca’s approach to stereo opera.

The fourth study considers Decca’s Phase 4 recording of Scheherazade (1964) as an example of alternative approaches to stereo recording


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> This is probably the only chance that I'll ever have to use this link to a Ph.D thesis entitled "Recording classical music in Britain: The long 1950s" written by Terence William Curran and so I had better not pass up this opportunity -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks wonderful. Thank you!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I'm another EMI fan, especially for their artists in the fifties in the Italian rep. When it comes to Wagner, I probably have more DG than either Decca or EMI. I prefer the line up of Callas/Di Stefano/Gobbi (or Panerai) to Tebaldi/Del Monaco/Bastianini and many of my other favourite singers are on EMI (Schwarzkopf/De los Angeles/Corelli/Vickers/Ludwig/Christoff). The one Decca artist I really like is Simionato and I have most of her studio recordings without Tebaldi. EMI had Barbieri, so were closely behind. Siepi was also another one of Decca's strengths.

Most of my Decca recordings probably have Pavarotti and/or Sutherland in, but I imagine I have more EMI recordings and I think they have the better catalogue overall.

N.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Both are essential, as is Deutsche Grammophon, as was Philips. All have truly great and memorable performances in their catalogues. Callas was never an attraction to me; therefore I can’t consider EMI the “most important“ label of all at the expense of all others simply b/c they (and now Warner) had her in their roster and milked (and keep milking) every last drop they can squeeze out of her.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

ALT said:


> Both are essential, as is Deutsche Grammophon, as was Philips. All have truly great and memorable performances in their catalogues. Callas was never an attraction to me; therefore I can’t consider EMI the “most important“ label of all at the expense of all others simply b/c they (and now Warner) had her in their roster and milked (and keep milking) every last drop they can squeeze out of her.


It is interesting how each label came to be associated with certain artists, which could produce the question, was the label built around the celebrity or did it later realize they needed the association of the label with the celebrity to sell records? And of course one could possibly argue Schwarzkopf really became a global celebrity because of Legge marketing her via EMI. In the late 40s Schwarzkopf was singing outside Germany and Austria at Covent Garden but she was not a household name. Callas at that time was still singing on the Latin circuit so one might make a similar claim.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> This is probably the only chance that I'll ever have to use this link to a Ph.D thesis entitled "Recording classical music in Britain: The long 1950s" written by Terence William Curran and so I had better not pass up this opportunity -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They could’ve included EMI’s de Sabata recording of *Tosca *which even in mono sounds fantastic. EMI and Legge never approached that sonic standard in subsequent Callas mono recordings. What happened?


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

100+ Callas CDs tip this in favor of EMI for me, although I have plenty of both for sure


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

MAS said:


> They could’ve included EMI’s de Sabata recording of *Tosca *which even in mono sounds fantastic. EMI and Legge never approached that sonic standard in subsequent Callas mono recordings. *What happened?*


I couldn't tell you - This was a published Ph.D thesis and any decisions made as to what to include and what to exclude were done by the candidate himself.

There are some fascinating behind the scenes interviews starting on page 304 - One brief excerpt -

"There were these strange things they used to do. The Verdi Requiem we did – not with Klemperer but with Giulini – Schwarzkopf had trouble with her high notes [the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam]. Legge wasn’t psychologically good with her, he was always getting at her; in fact he wasn’t psychologically good with anyone. She couldn’t really pull it off and I heard later that they got Heather Harper in to sing the top note. I thought this sounded a bit far-fetched but I saw her about a year ago and asked her if it was true and she said yes."


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> I couldn't tell you - This was a published Ph.D thesis and any decisions made as to what to include and what to exclude were done by the candidate himself.
> 
> There are some fascinating behind the scenes interviews starting on page 304 - One brief excerpt -
> 
> "There were these strange things they used to do. The Verdi Requiem we did – not with Klemperer but with Giulini – Schwarzkopf had trouble with her high notes [the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam]. Legge wasn’t psychologically good with her, he was always getting at her; in fact he wasn’t psychologically good with anyone. She couldn’t really pull it off and I heard later that they got Heather Harper in to sing the top note. I thought this sounded a bit far-fetched but I saw her about a year ago and asked her if it was true and she said yes."


Paying on the favour she performed for Kirsten Flagstad in 1952.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> I couldn't tell you - This was a published Ph.D thesis and any decisions made as to what to include and what to exclude were done by the candidate himself.
> 
> There are some fascinating behind the scenes interviews starting on page 304 - One brief excerpt -
> 
> "There were these strange things they used to do. The Verdi Requiem we did – not with Klemperer but with Giulini – Schwarzkopf had trouble with her high notes [the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam]. Legge wasn’t psychologically good with her, he was always getting at her; in fact he wasn’t psychologically good with anyone. She couldn’t really pull it off and I heard later that they got Heather Harper in to sing the top note. I thought this sounded a bit far-fetched but I saw her about a year ago and asked her if it was true and she said yes."


Schwarzkopf to my ears sounds very uncomfortable in this recording and it is not just because she never had the right type of voice for this part. Yes, lyrics have sung this part, but it is written for an Aida type of voice. At one point in the Giulini recording in the Salva me chorus Schwarzkopf is screeching in an attempt to be heard over that massive ensemble.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Monsalvat said:


> Paying on the favour she performed for Kirsten Flagstad in 1952.


I've always thought Schwarzkopf an odd choice to supply notes for Flagstad, so different were their timbres. The two Cs come and go so quickly that you don't really register the incongruity, but you can hear an imperfection in the splicing.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Francasacchi said:


> Schwarzkopf to my ears sounds very uncomfortable in this recording and it is not just because she never had the right type of voice for this part. Yes, lyrics have sung this part, but it is written for an Aida type of voice. At one point in the Giulini recording in the Salva me chorus Schwarzkopf is screeching in an attempt to be heard over that massive ensemble.


I remember one reviewer’s take on Schwarzkopf’s inclusion in that recording: “…_the insuperable drawback of Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, mannered and arch to boot_.” That stuck in my mind mostly because I couldn’t quite understand the last few words until years later (colloquial English was not easy for me to understand at the time).


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I've always thought Schwarzkopf an odd choice to supply notes for Flagstad, so different were their timbres. The two Cs come and go so quickly that you don't really register the incongruity, but you can hear an imperfection in the splicing.


Considering the difference also on breadth of tone, it could seem impossible to conceal the substitution.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I remember one reviewer’s take on Schwarzkopf’s inclusion in that recording: “…_the insuperable drawback of Elisabeth Schwarzkop, mannered and arch to boot_.” That stuck in my mind mostly because I couldn’t quite understand the last few words until years later (colloquial English was not easy for me to understand at the time).


"Mannered and arch to boot" sounds like a description of fine women's footwear in a clothing catalogue. That's the richness and craziness of English for you.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I couldn't tell you - This was a published Ph.D thesis and any decisions made as to what to include and what to exclude were done by the candidate himself.
> 
> There are some fascinating behind the scenes interviews starting on page 304 - One brief excerpt -
> 
> "There were these strange things they used to do. The Verdi Requiem we did – not with Klemperer but with Giulini – Schwarzkopf had trouble with her high notes [the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam]. Legge wasn’t psychologically good with her, he was always getting at her; in fact he wasn’t psychologically good with anyone. She couldn’t really pull it off and I heard later that they got Heather Harper in to sing the top note. I thought this sounded a bit far-fetched but I saw her about a year ago and asked her if it was true and she said yes."


Sorry, but I can’t really believe this. That pianissimo Bb sounds exactly like Schwarzkopf to me. Heather Harper’s top (admittedly one of the glories of her voice) sounds very different. When Legge first met his wife he really put her through the mill on a single Wolf song. Karajan was there and had to leave the session as he couldn’t bear to watch but Schwarzkopf thrived on such challenges. It was the way she had always worked.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> Schwarzkopf to my ears sounds very uncomfortable in this recording and it is not just because she never had the right type of voice for this part. Yes, lyrics have sung this part, but it is written for an Aida type of voice. At one point in the Giulini recording in the Salva me chorus Schwarzkopf is screeching in an attempt to be heard over that massive ensemble.


We all hear things differently, I suppose, but I love Schwarzkopf’s contribution to the Giulini Verdi Requiem, nor does she ever sound as if she’s shrieking to me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Well, in light of this controversy I'm just going to have to listen to the Giulini - odd that I never have - so that I can put my two cents in. As someone who thinks highly of Schwarzkopf but occasionally sympathizes with those who don't, I may come down somewhere in the middle. The one thing I'm pretty sure of in advance is that she won't bore me. Wish I could say that about most of today's sopranos.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> We all hear things differently, I suppose, but I love Schwarzkopf’s contribution to the Giulini Verdi Requiem, nor does she ever sound as if she’s shrieking to me.


Having just corrected my negligence in failing to listen to this wonderful recording in the more than fifty years I've known about it (I did hear the "Libera me" in a recent comparison here), I fully second your judgment. This is a special sort of performance, warm, thoughtful and humane, and I think it calls into question the idea that the work is a sort of "religious opera" that requires big, fat spinto voices, as if the cast of _Aida_ were taking a busman's holiday in the concert hall, The drama isn't slighted at all, Giulini finds everything in the work that's there to be found, and the soloists find more than we're going to hear from the Caniglias, Cossottos and other Italian foghorns commonly called "idiomatic" for music that has Verdi's name attached to it. Is Schwarzkopf's fortissimo high C screechy? Well, Tebaldi's was probably flat. Name your poison. Nothing is perfect. But the rich humanity of this music performed by these people comes darned close. If I were buying recordings these days and wanted this work, I'd walk out of the record store with this in my hand and a smile on my face.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I knew you'd like that, Mr.Tsaras. Because it's all true.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Sorry, but I can’t really believe this. That pianissimo Bb sounds exactly like Schwarzkopf to me. Heather Harper’s top (admittedly one of the glories of her voice) sounds very different. When Legge first met his wife he really put her through the mill on a single Wolf song. Karajan was there and had to leave the session as he couldn’t bear to watch but Schwarzkopf thrived on such challenges. It was the way she had always worked.


This is a quote from a Ph.D thesis written by Terrance William Curran in which he conducted an interview with Denis Vigay, the principal cellist with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic, BBC Symphony and the Academy of St Martin in the Fields - and held a long term teaching position on faculty at the London's Royal Academy of Music. 

This extended quote from Vigay is on page 333 of the thesis - 

"The main lot I did [with the Philharmonia] were with Giulini, Maazel, and one or two others. Klemperer was an amazing old boy because he seemed completely oblivious to anything to do with recording; he just went his own way. I’ve often wondered how we ever finished those recordings; he always had his pipe handy and sometimes it would drop and make a noise, sometimes he looked as though he’d fallen asleep. 

There were these strange things they used to do. The Verdi Requiem we did – not with Klemperer but with Giulini – Schwarzkopf had trouble with her high notes [the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam]. Legge wasn’t psychologically good with her, he was always getting at her; in fact he wasn’t psychologically good with anyone. She couldn’t really pull it off and I heard later that they got Heather Harper in to sing the top note. I thought this sounded a bit far-fetched but I saw her about a year ago and asked her if it was true and she said yes."

These are Vigay's own words as transcribed from an in-person interview - Any questions as to their veracity can only be addressed by how much faith one puts into his recollection of events.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> These are Vigay's own words as transcribed from an in-person interview - Any questions as to their veracity can only be addressed by how much faith one puts into his recollection of events.


Which is basically what I said in my post. If it were true, I'm sure we'd have heard more about it before. After all, everyone knows about Schwarzkopf singing Flagstad's top Cs in Furtwängler's Tristan recording.

As for Legge not being pyschologically good with Schwarzkopf, that is just Vigay's view. Legge was a hard task master and both he and Scwhwarzkopf were perfectionists. They would go over things a million time to get the best possible take. Everything I've ever read about Schwarzkopf says that she thrived in that sort of environment, but it doesn't work for everyone, as I discovered when I attended one of her Masterclasses at the Wigmore Hall. She was equally as hard a task master (mistress).


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Which is basically what I said in my post. If it were true, I'm sure we'd have heard more about it before. After all, everyone knows about Schwarzkopf singing Flagstad's top Cs in Furtwängler's Tristan recording.
> 
> As for Legge not being pyschologically good with Schwarzkopf, that is just Vigay's view. Legge was a hard task master and both he and Scwhwarzkopf were perfectionists. They would go over things a million time to get the best possible take. Everything I've ever read about Schwarzkopf says that she thrived in that sort of environment, but it doesn't work for everyone, as I discovered when I attended one of her Masterclasses at the Wigmore Hall. She was equally as hard a task master (mistress).


Why can’t you accept the truth that Schwarzkopf had trouble with the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam and that Harper did it for her? You seem to accept Schwarzkopf‘s rescue of Flagstad without questioning. By the by, the Schwarzkopf-Harper-V-Requiem anecdote is as well known as the Schwarzkopf-Flagstad-T&I.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

And just like the Ludwig lip-synced Fidelio, both high C and B flat incidents all amount to same thing: fakery.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Having just corrected my negligence in failing to listen to this wonderful recording in the more than fifty years I've known about it (I did hear the "Libera me" in a recent comparison here), I fully second your judgment. This is a special sort of performance, warm, thoughtful and humane, and I think it calls into question the idea that the work is a sort of "religious opera" that requires big, fat spinto voices, as if the cast of _Aida_ were taking a busman's holiday in the concert hall, The drama isn't slighted at all, Giulini finds everything in the work that's there to be found, and the soloists find more than we're going to hear from the Caniglias, Cossottos and other Italian foghorns commonly called "idiomatic" for music that has Verdi's name attached to it. Is Schwarzkopf's fortissimo high C screechy? Well, Tebaldi's was probably flat. Name your poison. Nothing is perfect. But the rich humanity of this music performed by these people comes darned close. If I were buying recordings these days and wanted this work, I'd walk out of the record store with this in my hand and a smile on my face.


I agree with your assessment of the Giulini performance as a whole and I find the phrasing of the singers and the conducting memorable. Yet also note Cossotto in recorded performances of the Requiem sings sensitively and observes the rarely observed pp markings in Liber Scriptus. Schwarzkopf is in fresher voice in the de Sabata recording, with easier soft notes and a more full throated sound. Also Grummer sang that part and there is a live recording, or part of it, the Libera me, on youtube.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

There are so many superlative opera recordings on both labels we should just be glad we have both . And don't forget all the wonderful ones on RCA, Sony Classical , DG , Philips and other labels .


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

superhorn said:


> There are so many superlative opera recordings on both labels we should just be glad we have both . And don't forget all the wonderful ones on RCA, Sony Classical , DG , Philips and other labels .


RCA in the USA also inherited the HMV catalog which used to be allied to EMI.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> Why can’t you accept the truth that Schwarzkopf had trouble with the pianissimo B flat in the Requiem aeternam and that Harper did it for her? You seem to accept Schwarzkopf‘s rescue of Flagstad without questioning. By the by, the Schwarzkopf-Harper-V-Requiem anecdote is as well known as the Schwarzkopf-Flagstad-T&I.


I've encountered the story of Flagstad's high Cs frequently since the 1960s, but had never until now heard the story of Harper standing in for Schwarzkopf. If the latter anecdote is really as well-known as the former, I'm obviously frequenting the wrong circles, or reading the wrong magazines.

In the end, who cares? Wagner wrote two high Cs. Don't we all want to hear them? I have no objection to one singer helping another to produce a better artistic product for the consumer. After all, neither recording is a documentation of a live performance. All's well that ends well. Jus' sayin'.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I've encountered the story of Flagstad's high Cs frequently since the 1960s, but had never until now heard the story of Harper standing in for Schwarzkopf. If the latter anecdote is really as well-known as the former, I'm obviously frequenting the wrong circles, or reading the wrong magazines.
> 
> In the end, who cares? Wagner wrote two high Cs. Don't we all want to hear them? I have no objection to one singer helping another to produce a better artistic product for the consumer. After all, neither recording is a documentation of a live performance. All's well that ends well. Jus' sayin'.


I read about Harper’s intervention on Schwarzkopf’s behalf many years ago somewhere so, upon reading about it again here, assumed it was general lore and as well known as the ES intervention on behalf of Flagstad. At least the deception has come to the forefront once again. As for “in the end, who cares?”, we should all care. Because otherwise it’s a rabbit hole and a slippery slope with no bottom in sight so that the “better artistic product for the consumer” is more trickery and manipulation.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> I read about Harper’s intervention on Schwarzkopf’s behalf many years ago somewhere so, upon reading about it again here, assumed it was general lore and as well known as the ES intervention on behalf of Flagstad. At least the deception has come to the forefront once again. As for “in the end, who cares?”, we should all care. Because otherwise it’s a rabbit hole and a slippery slope with no bottom in sight so that the “better artistic product for the consumer” is more trickery and manipulation.


Most things in life are slippery slopes - matters of degree and judgment. I'm pretty sure having one singer supply a note or two for another isn't going to beccome standard practice, and I won't lie awake at night.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Most things in life are slippery slopes - matters of degree and judgment. I'm pretty sure having one singer supply a note or two for another isn't going to beccome standard practice, and I won't lie awake at night.


No, these days they'd just use autotune.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> No, these days they'd just use autotune.


Note splicing and autotune are not the only technical wizardry undermining what should be, and be allowed to be, a strictly acoustical art form. Now we also have Artificial Intelligence and other advanced computing techniques which in due course will surely generate “better artistic product for the consumer” in the form of holograms, vivid recreations of things past and other fakery. Your Callas, for instance, has already been captured for further manipulation and exploitation, as we know. There is no bottom in sight. The end result will be opera as a digital Cirque du Soleil of sorts and down from there.


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## Second Trombone (Jan 23, 2020)

It's significant, I think, that the focus on our comparisons so far has been on the EMI & Decca opera recordings of the 1950s and 1960s. An implicit consensus seems to have formed that these decades were the golden era for the greatest opera recordings by these two labels, with EMI perhaps having the edge in the 1950s and Decca in the '60s. A few EMI favorites of mine that haven't been mentioned include Beecham's _La Boheme _and _Abduction from the Seraglio _and Giulini's _Marriage of Figaro_. I once told a friend that Beecham's _Boheme _with Björling, de los Angeles, et al, "would melt your bones," and I'll stand by that bit of hyperbole. On the Decca side we have all of his Wagner and Strauss recordings, many of which have been mentioned, as well as Karajan's _Fledermaus_, and Solti's Verdi recordings with Price, Pavarotti, Vickers, et al. And can we really afford to dismiss all of those Sutherland/Pavarotti recordings as chopped liver?
Our thread-starter offers an excellent question in that encourages us to think about the character of these two different labels and their offerings. And it points to a time, at mid-century, when LPs that could offer full operas were coming into their own, and when each label had a consistent house style that defined the work that they offered the public


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Second Trombone said:


> It's significant, I think, that the focus on our comparisons so far has been on the EMI & Decca opera recordings of the 1950s and 1960s. An implicit consensus seems to have formed that these decades were the golden era for the greatest opera recordings by these two labels, with EMI perhaps having the edge in the 1950s and Decca in the '60s. A few EMI favorites of mine that haven't been mentioned include Beecham's _La Boheme _and _Abduction from the Seraglio _and Giulini's _Marriage of Figaro_. I once told a friend that Beecham's _Boheme _with Björling, de los Angeles, et al, "would melt your bones," and I'll stand by that bit of hyperbole. On the Decca side we have all of his Wagner and Strauss recordings, many of which have been mentioned, as well as Karajan's _Fledermaus_, and Solti's Verdi recordings with Price, Pavarotti, Vickers, et al. And can we really afford to dismiss all of those Sutherland/Pavarotti recordings as chopped liver?
> Our thread-starter offers an excellent question in that encourages us to think about the character of these two different labels and their offerings. And it points to a time, at mid-century, when LPs that could offer full operas were coming into their own, and when each label had a consistent house style that defined the work that they offered the public


Maybe one of the reasons Beecham's classic _La Boheme _wasn't mentioned is that it was originally issued by RCA.


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## Second Trombone (Jan 23, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Maybe one of the reasons Beecham's classic _La Boheme _wasn't mentioned is that it was originally issued by RCA.


I think there are grounds for understandable confusion here.

Discogs gives the copyright as: "℗ 1956 Original sound recording made by EMI Records Ltd." I didn't know that the recording had also been issued issued by RCA. Still, though I live in the US, my CD version is on EMI, and my first copy was a Seraphim LP, a subsidiary of EMI.

Discogs no doubt incomplete listing of issued versions shows a 1956 recording put out in the US & Canada under the RCA Victor Red Seal label. But it also shows New Zealand and Australian issues under the HMV label. I don't see a listing of a UK issue, but it seems fair to assume that this would have been under the EMI or HMV imprint.

There are aspects of the relationship between EMI, HMV, and RCA that I don't fully understand. Perhaps one of the many knowledgeable folks here could clear it up. I know that at least from the 1920s through 1950s, there was some kind of relationship between EMI, HMV / RCA that remains murky to me. Can anyone explain this relationship? I have always understood that HMV was a subsidary of EMI. One fact I do know is that Arthur Rubinstein started out making recordings for EMI or HMV in England in the late 1920 & the 1930s. When he moved to the USA in the 1940s during WW2, Rubinstein explains in his autobiography that he sort of sidled over into RCA without really changing labels. I believe that those 1920s & 30s recordings Rubinstein made in the UK were issued in the US at the time under RCA's imprint. In more recent years (pre-Warner) were issued on CD in the US by EMI.

Based on the evidence I've seen and currently understand, I would suggest that it's fair to claim that the Beecham _Boheme _was at least in significant part an EMI project. Still, it also does bear some evidence of a mix of EMI and RCA elements. I think of Beecham and De Los Angeles as EMI artists, but Bjorling, Merrill and the RCA Victor Orchestra (of course), as RCA.

If anyone can untangle the interwoven threads of the provenance of this recording, it would be of great interest to me, and perhaps others here as well.


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## Second Trombone (Jan 23, 2020)

OK, well I took the simple expedient of reading the booklet notes of my EMI CD of Beecham's _Boheme_, which sheds considerable light on the subject of the provenance of this recording. This says that Beecham's manager Andrew Schluhof happened to notice that Beecham, De Los Angeles, and Björling would all be available in New York in the Spring of 1956, and Schulhof suggested "to EMI and its then-associate American company, RCA" that here was an opportunity to record _Boheme _with an exceptional group of performers.

So we have a joint production of EMI and RCA, made in 1956 in NY under time pressure since the artist's schedules were soon to pull them apart, with a serendiptiously assembled but near-ideal ensemble.

Is it wrong to refer to this as an EMI recording? You make the call.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Second Trombone said:


> OK, well I took the simple expedient of reading the booklet notes of my EMI CD of Beecham's _Boheme_, which sheds considerable light on the subject of the provenance of this recording. This says that Beecham's manager Andrew Schluhof happened to notice that Beecham, De Los Angeles, and Björling would all be available in New York in the Spring of 1956, and Schulhof suggested "to EMI and its then-associate American company, RCA" that here was an opportunity to record _Boheme _with an exceptional group of performers.
> 
> So we have a joint production of EMI and RCA, made in 1956 in NY under time pressure since the artist's schedules were soon to pull them apart, with a serendiptiously assembled but near-ideal ensemble.
> 
> Is it wrong to refer to this as an EMI recording? You make the call.


Maybe it was a co-production of both, released on RCA in the US and HMV in the UK. There is also a certain amount of confusion surrounding Columbia records. In the UK Callas's records were issued on the Columbia label, whilst in the US they were issued on Angel.

De Los Angeles, who recorded almost exclusively for HMV, which was also a subsidiar of EMI recorded Berlioz's _Les Nuits d'Eté _with Munch for RCA and I'm pretty sure that, unlike _La Boheme_, it was never issued by EMI, even in the CD age.


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## FrankE (Jan 13, 2021)

Shaughnessy said:


> This is probably the only chance that I'll ever have to use this link to a Ph.D thesis entitled "Recording classical music in Britain: The long 1950s" written by Terence William Curran and so I had better not pass up this opportunity -
> 
> 
> 
> https://ora.ox.ac.uk/catalog/uuid:2340cf56-c2be-4c0b-b5a6-2cfe06c22fe4/download_file?file_format=application%2Fpdf&safe_filename=Curran%2C%2BTerence%2BDPhil%2BThesis%2Bv31%2BORA%2Bdissemination%2Bversion.pdf


One can get a PhD at Oxford for such a topic?
I wasted my time in EEE at a polyversity


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> *De Los Angeles, who recorded almost exclusively for HMV, which was also a subsidiary of EMI recorded Berlioz's Les Nuits d'Eté with Munch for RCA and I'm pretty sure that, unlike La Boheme, it was never issued by EMI, even in the CD age.*












Just in case someone wishes to hear Berlioz's *Les Nuits d'Eté *with VDLA and Charles Munch, they are tracks 21 through 26 on this label authorized 133 track complete recording -





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www.youtube.com


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Just in case someone wishes to hear Berlioz's *Les Nuits d'Eté *with VDLA and Charles Munch, they are tracks 21 through 26 on this label authorized 133 track complete recording -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems to be readily available, in various guises, on streaming platforms. It's a very good performance too.


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## FrankE (Jan 13, 2021)

I think I have more of EMI on disc than Decca and though I'm more inclined towards Decca and EMI because they're British I have a worrying amount on DG.
I don't know enough of the various singers and works to have formed strong preferences yet for singers on one label or the other. Both have good sound quality and that matters for me slightly over performance and it's just a matter of how I feel if I want to listen to a spacious and lively recording with soundstage ore something more restrained.
Kinda worked out that way with recommendations.
Charity shop finds of opera have tended to be EMI, perhaps because for some years now we've only had an HMV and Callas being predominant in those finds.
Maybe loyalty? I worked with Thorn EMI, I've worked at a Universal company (neither music-related roles) but an old friend is at EMI and sublabel that was at one time under EMI as an A&R consultant, engineer and ran Abbey Road Live.
I would have liked an EMI Abbey Road studio one Wagner canon, even 'just' a Ring, you know for UK representation but this time not cheaping out on recording quality as the Ring in English did after so much work but that's never going to happen.
I'm not sure if singers, conductors being on a labels is such a good thing. With there being so few stand out singers these days it would be hard to put together the best cast for a studio recording without being stung for licencing fees to other labels.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It seems to be readily available, in various guises, on streaming platforms. It's a very good performance too.


It's also available on Testament as a bonus on her complete Manon.

N.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I started listening to opera with EMI CDs, so I am biased. But recently, some opera recordings in the Legendary Performance series became my favorites, such as the Kleiber's Figaro, Karajan's Aida, and Kertész' Duke Bluebeard’s Castle.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Well, in light of this controversy I'm just going to have to listen to the Giulini - odd that I never have - so that I can put my two cents in. As someone who thinks highly of Schwarzkopf but occasionally sympathizes with those who don't, I may come down somewhere in the middle. The one thing I'm pretty sure of in advance is that she won't bore me. Wish I could say that about most of today's sopranos.


I'm not a Schwarzkopf fan but I think she does ok in the Verdi Requiem. Her voice is nowhere near ideal for the part but she sounds better than she probably has the right to.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Second Trombone said:


> It's significant, I think, that the focus on our comparisons so far has been on the EMI & Decca opera recordings of the 1950s and 1960s. An implicit consensus seems to have formed that these decades were the golden era for the greatest opera recordings by these two labels, with EMI perhaps having the edge in the 1950s and Decca in the '60s. A few EMI favorites of mine that haven't been mentioned include Beecham's _La Boheme _and _Abduction from the Seraglio _and Giulini's _Marriage of Figaro_. I once told a friend that Beecham's _Boheme _with Björling, de los Angeles, et al, "would melt your bones," and I'll stand by that bit of hyperbole. On the Decca side we have all of his Wagner and Strauss recordings, many of which have been mentioned, as well as Karajan's _Fledermaus_, and Solti's Verdi recordings with Price, Pavarotti, Vickers, et al. And can we really afford to dismiss all of those Sutherland/Pavarotti recordings as chopped liver?
> Our thread-starter offers an excellent question in that encourages us to think about the character of these two different labels and their offerings. And it points to a time, at mid-century, when LPs that could offer full operas were coming into their own, and when each label had a consistent house style that defined the work that they offered the public


Karajan's Boheme and Butterfly, Mehta's Turandot, Solti's Aida. Wonderful Decca recordings.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I started listening to opera with EMI CDs, so I am biased. But recently, some opera recordings in the Legendary Performance series became my favorites, such as the Kleiber's Figaro, Karajan's Aida, and Kertész' Duke Bluebeard’s Castle.


Isn't the Kleiber's Figaro a Deccca recording?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Parsifal98 said:


> Isn't the Kleiber's Figaro a Deccca recording?


They're all Decca. OffPitchNeb is referring to Decca's Legendary Performance series.


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