# Round One: Wenn dein Mutterlein. London, Hampson



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Read post below. I need your help.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I discovered both of these versions doing my research and I really like both a lot although they are very different.
I needed some help picking a candidate for the alto version of this contest but Tsaraslondon has persuaded me to go for Baker. It will be a good and different version from Ferrier.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I discovered both of these versions doing my research and I really like both a lot although they are very different.
> I need some help on the next round of this song by Mahler. I am very biased towards Kathleen Ferrier's version and am having trouble picking an alto to compete with her. Persuade me to include a favorite of yours.


I'd go for Baker, but then her disc of Mahler's Orchestral Lieder is one of my desert island discs.










I assume it's on youtube.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd go for Baker, but then her disc of Mahler's Orchestral Lieder is one of my desert island discs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had her picked out for next but I like more power down low for this piece and Ferrier has that in spades. I normally like Marion Anderson but she sounded shakey and old for this piece. Since this is a desert island piece for you I will go with it. Thanks.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I had her picked out for next but I like more power down low for this piece and Ferrier has that in spades. I normally like Marion Anderson but she sounded shakey and old for this piece. Since this is a desert island piece for you I will go with it. Thanks.


I like the Ferrier version too, so it's going to be very difficult.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Hampson really doesn’t have much voice and I find it just makes the whole thing feel a bit pompous and stiff. London wins with ease.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Hampson. London is too woofy . Also Hampson has the advantage of Bernstein. Having said that I would have F-D and Böhm before either of them!😂


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I had her picked out for next but I like more power down low for this piece and Ferrier has that in spades. I normally like Marion Anderson but she sounded shakey and old for this piece. Since this is a desert island piece for you I will go with it. Thanks.


Incidentally, there are two Baker versions. The one with Barbirolli and a later one with Bernstein, which is only available on youtube as part of the whole _Kindertotenlieder_ cycle. Considering the Hampson one is also with Bernstein, it might make an interesting comparison.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Hampson. London is too woofy . Also Hampson has the advantage of Bernstein. Having said that I would have F-D and Böhm before either of them!😂


You got there first. You said pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I would add that I prefer a slightly slower tempo, like the one Bernstein adopts. That said, the Fischer-Dieskau/Böhm recording is closer to the tempo on the George London version, and I also prefer Fidi to both of these.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Hampson. London is too woofy . Also Hampson has the advantage of Bernstein. Having said that I would have F-D and Böhm before either of them!😂


I listened to F-D but it didn't grab me, BUT I don't know these men's voices like some of you learned folk. Thanks for playing. BTW, who is Bohm? I only know the conductor Bohm. Can't do umlauts.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I listened to F-D but it didn't grab me, BUT I don't know these men's voices like some of you learned folk. Thanks for playing. BTW, who is Bohm? I only know the conductor Bohm. Can't do umlauts.


Yep Karl Böhm is the conductor for F-D.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Bernstein decorates the video himself. His gesture in the end is priceless. 
Another advantage was a translation. I understand German surprisingly well with spanish subtitles. 😄
Hampson's sweet look, on the contrary, hindered a little. It looked like a soap opera where one of the characters sings and tries to be sensitive and serious. But finally his performance was more appropriate than London's, who, despite of an undoubted beauty of the voice, was too powerful and harsh.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Hampson. London is too woofy . Also Hampson has the advantage of Bernstein. Having said that I would have F-D and Böhm before either of them!😂


Interesting you say London sounds woofy, I find him to have plenty of core here. Meanwhile Hampson does sound a little woofy to me, although not woofy as a baritone but as though he is a tenor attempting to sound like a baritone by darkening his voice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

George London is one of those singers I enjoy very much, but selectively. I think his huge, dark, dramatic voice (I don't know what "woofy" means) needs the grand environs of Valhalla or the Graalstempel the way a big animal needs an expansive habitat. Here It sounds uncomfortably cooped up in music which is essentially delicate and intimate. Hampson, on the oher hand, sounds stretched to his vocal limit by music that doesn't seem, on the surface, unduly demanding. I probably prefer his _kind_ of voice in this to London's Wagnerian roar, and I've certainly enjoyed him in other (mostly song rather than opera) rep, but here he's distinctly underwhelming. There has to be a happy medium between these two - maybe Hermann Prey? I also detect a problem with the tempos these conductors choose; I think part of the difficulty with London's performance is simply that the fast tempo doesn't allow his voice to expand into the notes, while it may be that Hampson would have sounded less vocally pressed at a slightly quicker pace.

Decisions, decisions! I expect Hampson will win this round, but if I imagine the vocally imposing London with Bernstein conducting in the acoustics of a hall that would give his voice room and mellow it a bit, I suspect the choice would be easier. I'm going to give this to him.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I discovered both of these versions doing my research and I really like both a lot although they are very different.
> I needed some help picking a candidate for the alto version of this contest but Tsaraslondon has persuaded me to go for Baker. It will be a good and different version from Ferrier.


I propose Christa Ludwig for a future round!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Parsifal98 said:


> I propose Christa Ludwig for a future round!


I strongly considered her but she is in a number of song contests coming up. For myself, I like her in this but she doesn't have the strength i want on those low notes, though of course her interpretation is of course hard to beat. I had enough problems finding women I liked to try to create another round. Sorry. I think the two I have are very different so will please different people.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

As much as I love London in Wagnerian roles, it sounds like he's singing this as Amfortas or something, a bit much at times for the delicate orchestration. I'd have to go with Hampson (I have that or a similar recording as part of a DG set I think).


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## Mr Belpit (Oct 1, 2015)

Bernstein's tempo is dreadful. The wind players seem to be playing a series of distended, individual notes rather than a melodic line. And Hampson can't do justice to the emotional content of the song when he has to work so hard just to keep pumping out the sound.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

One of my favourite compositions in two (for me) dreadful renditions. I stopped listening after about a minute in both cases. Give me DFD, or a number of alto's.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> One of my favourite compositions in two (for me) dreadful renditions. I stopped listening after about a minute in both cases. Give me DFD, or a number of alto's.


Am I right in thinking you're something of a Mahlerian? Interesting to get a take from you.

I do rather agree with you, though. I much prefer Fidi, if we're talking about a male voice, but generally prefer female singers in this, Baker, Ludwig and Ferrier, in particular.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Parsifal98 said:


> I propose Christa Ludwig for a future round!


I second this and Meier's version is also worth putting in there!

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Unless DFD is singing this, I associate with a female singer.

What's going on with the George London version here? It sounds as if it has been slowed down, it's somnolent and I have to say I find nothing pleasing in his singing. Neither the dull tone or the lifeless interpretation make this one I can vote for. I almost feel ready to vote for the Hampson because it can't be worse than this one.

Hampson is quite a good Lieder singer and whilst I wouldn't put his version of this among my faves, it's a touch better than London's (but not by much). Why are these so slow?

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Unless DFD is singing this, I associate with a female singer.
> 
> What's going on with the George London version here? It sounds as if it has been slowed down, it's somnolent and I have to say I find nothing pleasing in his singing. Neither the dull tone or the lifeless interpretation make this one I can vote for. I almost feel ready to vote for the Hampson because it can't be worse than this one.
> 
> ...


The London version clocks in at almost 2 minutes less than the Hampson one. It sounded too fast to me. However Fischer-Dieskau's version with Böhm takes about the same amount of time and that doesn't feel fast.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The London version clocks in at almost 2 minutes less than the Hampson one. It sounded too fast to me. However Fischer-Dieskau's version with Böhm takes about the same amount of time and that doesn't feel fast.


You are right. I'm not familiar with the DFD with Bohm, I only know his one with Kempe and that is a bit slower than the London one here. I think it is something to do with the mood/attitude of the tempo, it drags, whereas those on other recordings give an effect that the music is flowing and moving constantly forwards.

N.


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