# Microtonal Music



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Can anyone give me some interesting examples on acoustic instruments? I take it that it's impossible on a piano, but I suppose on string instruments it's possible?


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Geroge Crumb (still living!) uses microtones as inflections within works that are not microtonal - avant garde works for solo winds,vocalists and I'm very sure for strings often require players to play a half-sharp or half-flat note - special fingerings for such notes are notated in the score. Still, I do not believe these are 'musics' which are based in a systematic theory of microtonal harmony. Robert Dick (very much alive) writes avant garde works, mostly for solo flute that abound in tones found 'in the cracks of the sidewalk'. His 'Flying Lessons' are a set of concert etudes, and I believe they use microtones amid other extended techniques such as double, triple and even quadruple stops for the flute. I'm sure Stockhausen and Babbitt both worked with microtonal schemes. I am not well-versed in either of these composers but am about to purchase a recording of GRUPPEN for three orchestras (not sure about electronics) by Stockhausen.

flames must not encircle sides - by Robert Dick







Polednice said:


> Can anyone give me some interesting examples on acoustic instruments? I take it that it's impossible on a piano, but I suppose on string instruments it's possible?


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Polednice said:


> I take it that it's impossible on a piano, but I suppose on string instruments it's possible?


Pianos can be tuned.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

this choir sometimes use some microtonal intervals.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Argus said:


> Pianos can be tuned.


Ah yes, stupid me! You'd better find me an example then.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Maverick Californian Harry Partch (1901-1974) was not only a composer, but an inventor
of strange-looking and sounding microtonal instruments which divided the scale into 43 ! tones . Strange marimba-like instruments etc. 
Partch was a loner who arrogantly rejected the entire tradition of western classical music because it used only 12 tones. He disliked what he called "the tyranny of the piano".
You can hear some of his music on youtube. His works have strange titles such as "Delusion of the fury " and "On the seventh day,petals fell on Petaluma "etc.
His weird instruments have been preserved and there are still some musicians who worked with him who have performed and recorded his music.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Henry Cowell first experimented with 'prepared piano' (putting stuff on the strings, ping pong balls, chains, Ding Dongs), but not sure about retuned. Charles Ives and his dad both used strange tunings, but again I cannot find precise works (and there probably wouldn't be recordings, anyway). 'Scordatura', as I'm sure you know, is the string term for 'retuning', but it mostly implies to another pitch in the chromatic scale, not a quarter-tone...and I'm sorry i not have answered your question.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Super post! I love the music of Harry Partch and forget to search Amazon for collections of his amazing stuff.



superhorn said:


> Maverick Californian Harry Partch (1901-1974) was not only a composer, but an inventor
> of strange-looking and sounding microtonal instruments which divided the scale into 43 ! tones . Strange marimba-like instruments etc.
> Partch was a loner who arrogantly rejected the entire tradition of western classical music because it used only 12 tones. He disliked what he called "the tyranny of the piano".
> You can hear some of his music on youtube. His works have strange titles such as "Delusion of the fury " and "On the seventh day,petals fell on Petaluma "etc.
> His weird instruments have been preserved and there are still some musicians who worked with him who have performed and recorded his music.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Ah yes, stupid me! You'd better find me an example then.







this instead is just intonation


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

NightHawk said:


> Super post! I love the music of Harry Partch and forget to search Amazon for collections of his amazing stuff.


Recordings are out there. Partch hisownself and crew, and a few post-Partch. I have some of them. Mostly they are fun to listen to, and probably were fun to play.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, they're extremely interesting. If anyone is aware of music that has a fundamental system of microtones - i.e. a complete replacement of traditional tonality in favour of a new tonal system based on microtones (as opposed to microtones as ornaments) - I'd be especially interested.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I didn't know the phenomenon being out of tune had a technical term.
:tiphat:

But actually, you can simulate microtones using 2 pianos tuned a quarter-step apart. To hear works written like that are very dizzying.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

As a note on Harrison's _Revelation for Piano_, though it says it uses just intonation, it also adds a number of other intervals, such as what he calls the "celestial comma" which is key feature repeated throughout the work and is an interval with a ratio of 64:63.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2011)

And Ben Johnston.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I didn't know the phenomenon being out of tune had a technical term.
> :tiphat:


Yes, it's called "even temperament."


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Not too bizzare, but quite listenable. Microtonal electronic music.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Bartok's 6th string quartet uses a microtone in one spot.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

violadude said:


> Bartok's 6th string quartet uses a microtone in one spot.


I'm looking for pieces that are almost all microtonal rather than 'spottily' so (what does that mean anyway? There's a microtone in one bar?  ).


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions so far, they're extremely interesting. If anyone is aware of music that has a fundamental system of microtones - i.e. a complete replacement of traditional tonality in favour of a new tonal system based on microtones (as opposed to microtones as ornaments) - I'd be especially interested.


That's Partch.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> That's Partch.


i think that Partch's music is based exactly on tonality (and on just intonation) though i don't know anything about the technical details of his system.
Anyway, i think that the brief melody at the start of Barstow (the few notes before "number one", "number two" etc) is really fascinating and i don't know how it works


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Partch used microtonality in order to make his pieces MORE tonal (at least in his oppinion) rather than as a replacement for tonality.
Partch hated equal temperment, but he still wanted the freedom to modulate to any key in just intonation, which isn't possible since some keys will reflect the integer ratios of the various intervals better than others in that system. So he invented instruments that could play in just intonation in any key, which necesitated the use of note that were "in the cracks" of a piano tuned in equal temperment.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I'm looking for pieces that are almost all microtonal rather than 'spottily' so (what does that mean anyway? There's a microtone in one bar?  ).


There's about 6 notes that are 3/4 sharps lol


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

SuperTonic said:


> Partch used microtonality in order to make his pieces MORE tonal (at least in his oppinion) rather than as a replacement for tonality.
> Partch hated equal temperment, but he still wanted the freedom to modulate to any key in just intonation, which isn't possible since some keys will reflect the integer ratios of the various intervals better than others in that system. So he invented instruments that could play in just intonation in any key, which necesitated the use of note that were "in the cracks" of a piano tuned in equal temperment.


Thanks for the clarification. All I can say in my defense is that Partch's music doesn't sound 'tonal' to me. It sounds 'microtonal, I guess. That isn't _non-tonal_ (whatever that is) right?


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

SuperTonic said:


> Partch used microtonality in order to make his pieces MORE tonal (at least in his oppinion) rather than as a replacement for tonality.
> Partch hated equal temperment, but he still wanted the freedom to modulate to any key in just intonation, which isn't possible since some keys will reflect the integer ratios of the various intervals better than others in that system. So he invented instruments that could play in just intonation in any key, which necesitated the use of note that were "in the cracks" of a piano tuned in equal temperment.


He extended the tonality beyond the 5-limit used and approximated by most musical systems and extended it up to the 11-limit. In his Monophonic fabric he has 12 primary tonalities and 16 secondary, so 28 in total, compared to the normal 12 major and 12 minor (Plus his minor/utonality is very different to normal with the fourth or 4/3 sounding like the tonic because it's just major inverted). Also, although he uses a 43-tone scale, there are actually 340 intervals in his system because they are just/untempered and built on ratios rather than logarithms.

Yes, I've read Genesis of a Music a couple times. I find his theories interesting but his system is so idiosynchratic and tied to his aesthetics it seems a bit unnecessary for anyone else to use with it. Also, whilst the 7-limit intervals have a quite pleasing quality, the 11-limit intervals sound like **** to my ears.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. All I can say in my defense is that Partch's music doesn't sound 'tonal' to me. It sounds 'microtonal, I guess. That isn't non-tonal (whatever that is) right?


I did a research paper on Partch when I was in college for a Music History class which is why I know about him and a little about his sytem. Unfortunately that was years ago and I've never really delved too deep into his music so I can't really claim to be an expert.
It does make sense to me though that you might get a "microtonal" feel in his music whenever he modulates from one key to another. In that context you would likely hear two slightly different tunings of the same note in close proximity which would probably give you that microtonal effect.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Gloria Coates' Symphony 14 is subtitled Symphony in Microtones. 
There is a microtonal chorale starting at about the 5:00 mark.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The 20th century Czech composer Alois Haba wrote an entire opera in quarter tones
called "Matka" (The Mother). There is a recording on the Supraphon label, and I'd really like to hear it. Not sure if it's still available,though. But the best place to check (or Czech) 
would be arkivmusic.com, by far the best place on the internet to locate hard-to-find
classical CDs.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I agree what superhorn said above,* Harry Partch* devised his own microtonal system (43 tone scale). He didn't have much time for basically everything between J.S. Bach and Schoenberg. His music is generally said to be tonal, and does give me that "centred" feel despite it's complexity. He was also a big influenced on the next generation of American minimalists, but the "holy minimalists" like ARvo Part learnt many lessons from his music also.

*Xenakis'* stuff, a lot of it is microtonal. On strings, his _Nomos Alpha for solo cello_ or his _Theraps for double bass_ are good works (esp. like the latter, a favourite, this curved structure, starting from low, going very very high and then back down again).

Yes, *Bartok* was incorporating these as well, in his _Solo Violin Sonata_, it originally had microtones. The earlier recordings tend to omit the microtones, which he authorised, but more recent ones have restored them.

I have read about *Haba*, but don't remember hearing his music. Yes, he's a major figure in this field. AS is* Ives*, of course.

Another one is *Aaron Copland*, his _Study on a Jewish Theme for piano trio, "Vitebsk"_ also has microtones, and presaged what Xenakis was to do later, eg. the two string players deliberately play out of tune. He took this from Ives, probably/maybe, but I don't think he did any more works of this type. This was composed around 1930...


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## gridweb (Jun 19, 2011)

Maybe this might be of interest to you:
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/instruments/fokkerorgan.html

Best,
Willem


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

gridweb said:


> Maybe this might be of interest to you:
> http://www.huygens-fokker.org/instruments/fokkerorgan.html
> 
> Best,
> Willem


Yeah, it is. Fascinated by the meantone capability too.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

What about Ligeti's sonata for solo viola? At least _half_ of all the notes are microtones!


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