# Prokofiev ballets



## TudorMihai

I've listened to many Prokofiev works and a few of his operas. But I haven't listened to his ballets yet, except for a few excerpts from _Cinderella_. What ballets do you recommend from him?


----------



## PetrB

*Cinderella* is "very pretty," and the reason for its particular take, i.e. baroque and classical dance-forms, all highly tonal, is a direct reaction to having been called up on the carpet by Stalin's bureaucratic music police goons for "modernism," i.e. not writing music of the people. Prokofiev, certainly one of the most gifted of protean melodists, came up with this very fine and pretty score, as "atonement" (whether sincere or not is more than in doubt) and more to the point to save his butt, I imagine.

*Romeo and Juliet* is an integral score throughout, I personally think much more directly linked to both storyline and underscoring the "emotion" of same, and I believe it is his most frequently performed ballet.

There is a suite from his primitivist project, done after the fact of Stravinsky's _Le Sacre du Printemps,_ the result of that was the ballet _Ala i Lolli_, set in pre-christian Russia. Commissioned by Diaghilev, who oddly, rejected the work before it was completed, Prokofiev salvaged what had been done to date:
that is the _*Scythian Suite*_ (terrific music.)





I'm partial too, to his ballet, *Chout. (the buffoon)* It is in that more absurdist / satiric side of Prokofiev's varied styles, and another great score. I have no recall as to the specifics of the story of that ballet 

















Enjoy.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Although I've not heard the music in full I'd suggest listening to the suite from Le pas d'acier (The Step of Steel - 1926). In this case, 'Step' means transition rather than anything terpsichorean. Written for the Ballets Russes in Paris, it was originally supposed to be a reflection of life in the fledgling USSR and the stage setting was suitably contemporary reflecting the in-vogue 'industrial' art culture (this was also about the time of Prokofiev's 'Iron & Steel' 2nd symphony and Mosolov's 'Iron Foundry'). 

Although the ballet was well-received, the more Soviet elements of the plot were gradually watered down over the course of its initial three-year run in favour of including more pre-revolution folk elements, possibly to make it more palatable for Paris's Russian 'White'/monarchist emigre community. The music is representative of Prokofiev at that time - spiky and playful in places with modernist elements creeping in here and there.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Cinderella in its entirety is probably my favorite ballet by him. Both Romeo & Juliet and Cinderella are products of some spiritual transformation he went through (his conversion to Christian Science), besides Soviet standard-keeping. Cinderella touches my heart the most profoundly.

Prokofiev's Enfante Terrible ballets (the ones Petr mentioned) are of quite a different sort, but extremely colorful, exciting too.


----------



## Cosmos

As others have said, Romeo and Juliet and Cinderella are his best. The first is very colorful and has a few reoccurring motifs that make the work cohesive. The latter is somewhat darker, and at time a little whimsical.

Also, follow PetrB's suggestion and listen to the Scythian Suite. It's grotesque and brilliant fun


----------



## sharik

Prokofiev - _The Stone Flower_


























etc.


----------



## PetrB

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Both Romeo & Juliet and Cinderella are products of some spiritual transformation he went through (his conversion to Christian Science)


Funny, I don't hear any trace of a stylistic difference, no new personal traits, expressions as compared to any of his other music, and not a trace of anything smacking of "Christianity" or any other genre of faith coming from those scores.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

PetrB said:


> Funny, I don't hear any trace of a stylistic difference, no new personal traits, expressions as compared to any of his other music, and not a trace of anything smacking of "Christianity" or any other genre of faith coming from those scores.


Well, if only PetrB wasn't banned for the present. Anyhow, I would respond by saying there is. After 1924, Prokofiev didn't believe in death, evil, or the devil, and so planned to have Romeo & Juliet end with Juliet waking up just in time, and all ending happily ever after (he had to rescind his plan because of how many opposed him). Later in life, Prokofiev wasn't nearly as dissonant as he was in the past, and that's not only because of Soviet socialism ideals. He had his own ideals of perfection and light, and produced something of a "all will end well" in him, especially in those late ballets. He moved to the Soviet Union because he use to think they were a government "moving towards the Light" but he soon saw through it. If you hear the 7th symphony too, it's the same mellow sound as the ballets. The dissonance of his late period is more humorous in a good-natured way than sarcastic. People can say all they want about how manipulated by the government he was, but much of what he did _was_ sincere. Sincere enough that he let himself get banned sometimes, but other times genuinely _not banned_, if you know what I mean.


----------



## Ukko

Huilunsoittaja said:


> [...]
> People can say all they want about how manipulated by the government he was, but much of what he did _was_ sincere. Sincere enough that he let himself get banned sometimes, but other times genuinely _not banned_, if you know what I mean.


[I have no opinion re the ballets.] _Huilun_, your posts lead me to believe that you are not adept at extracting nuances.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Hilltroll72 said:


> [I have no opinion re the ballets.] _Huilun_, your posts lead me to believe that you are not adept at extracting nuances.


Well, you better be joking. I've studied his music for several years now, and my knowledge of him is only going to grow. I'm more intuitive than you think... I wouldn't say such comments back to you either...


----------



## Ukko

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Well, you better be joking. I've studied his music for several years now, and my knowledge of him is only going to grow. I'm more intuitive than you think... I wouldn't say such comments back to you either...


No, no, you misunderstand (probably). If you have been studying his music 'in situ', including his interactions with the commissars and Big Bad Joe, you should have detected nuances that are, ah, other than happy acceptance of official pronouncements. The 'standard example' (the one often offered) is the Symphonie Concertante. The nuances also can be detected (you think imagined?) in his symphonies, notably in the 5-6-7 progression considered together.

BTW intuition is not the process I am referring to; men don't possess that, y'know.

[I hope this isn't evolving into an argument with a moderator - I avoid those assiduously]


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Hilltroll72 said:


> No, no, you misunderstand (probably). If you have been studying his music 'in situ', including his interactions with the commissars and Big Bad Joe, you should have detected nuances that are, ah, other than happy acceptance of official pronouncements. The 'standard example' (the one often offered) is the Symphonie Concertante. The nuances also can be detected (you think imagined?) in his symphonies, notably in the 5-6-7 progression considered together.
> 
> BTW intuition is not the process I am referring to; men don't possess that, y'know.
> 
> [I hope this isn't evolving into an argument with a moderator - I avoid those assiduously]


Indeed, I know of some of those incidents, though I don't know the one about the Symphonie Concertante. I know about the 7th symphony incident, and the Piano Sonatas 6&8.

Looks like I have more history to read into, which is good. Some of my favorite stuff.


----------



## TxllxT

Of Prokofiev's ballets I prefer The Stone Flower as no.1, probably because I discovered it long after the to me wellknown Romeo+Juliet & Cinderella. I do* not* notice any sweetishness (commented on above in this thread) in Prokofiev's music, because Gennady Rozhdestvensky, my favorite Prokofiev-conductor, interprets this steadfastly into *bitter*sweetness. Whether it is intended to be sweet or bitter or inbetween, who can tell? This is the reason why I prefer Russian interpretations: they make you aware of Prokofiev's multifacetedness. Soviet composers often hid their personal misery into sugary wrappings. I do not like most of the 'western' interpretations of Prokofiev's music, because they fill all those sugary wrappings with sugar and nothing but sugar. (Sugariness is a typical American vice, I'm afraid.) It's this one-dimensional interpretation of multifaceted compositions, that has created a saccharin Prokofiev. Listen to the difference in sound of Russian brass (Marinsky, Rozhdestvensky) and say, Cleveland brass (Maazel). This is revealing, especially in Prokoviev's ballets.


----------



## sharik

TxllxT said:


> Soviet composers often hid their personal misery into sugary wrappings


er, what 'misery'?.. all of them were well off and had no personal problems to hide or complain about.. for example here's a list of awards Prokofiev got from the State - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokofiev#Honours_and_awards - six Stalin Prizes, not bad at all.


----------



## elgar's ghost

sharik said:


> er, what 'misery'?.. all of them were well off and had no personal problems to hide or complain about.. for example here's a list of awards Prokofiev got from the State - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokofiev#Honours_and_awards - six Stalin Prizes, not bad at all.


Come off it. Medals and the attendant cash prizes were nothing more than glorified doggy treats.


----------



## sharik

elgars ghost said:


> Medals and the attendant cash prizes were nothing more than glorified doggy treats


huh, don't you know everything you get from the State or your boss is 'doggy treats' actually?


----------



## TxllxT

sharik said:


> er, what 'misery'?.. all of them were well off and had no personal problems to hide or complain about.. for example here's a list of awards Prokofiev got from the State - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokofiev#Honours_and_awards - six Stalin Prizes, not bad at all.


I agree that the Soviet composers enjoyed a quite comfortable way of life. Photos of Dmitri Shostakovich as firefighter on the roofs of Leningrad are pure propaganda. The State ordered a maximalist positive artistic vision of the glorious Communist future and WOW: these artists indeed perfomed this endless merry-go-round feat. (Listen to the brainless waltzes from Shostakovich in the glamourversion of André Rieu: No doubt, people *do* love it!). But exactly this 100% happiness in the Communist State is as suffocating as hell. That's why Prokofiev & Shostakovich delivered the goods, but very intelligently added spices, that do not & will not add up into this 100% bliss. Not because Prokofiev & Shostakovich did not believe as true communists do: IMO Prokofiev & Shostakovich really believed in the Communist future as faithful partymembers. But apart from being faithful partymembers & true believers Prokofiev & Shostakovich were composers of music: Music is - in the end - a personal thing, revealing the human soul, isn't it? Why does Yevgeny Mravinsky's brass sound so blaringly personal? Compare that with the brass in the 'western' orchestras: 100% mellow & beautiful. But I'm gasping for air - for my soul.


----------



## TudorMihai

sharik said:


> er, what 'misery'?.. all of them were well off and had no personal problems to hide or complain about.. for example here's a list of awards Prokofiev got from the State - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prokofiev#Honours_and_awards - six Stalin Prizes, not bad at all.


Six Stalin prizes and yet, in 1948, he was labeled as "anti-democratic" and much of his music was banned. Even his opera _The Story of a Real Man_, which Prokofiev wrote to redeem himself, received a negative review and was banned.


----------



## sharik

TxllxT said:


> Photos of Dmitri Shostakovich as firefighter on the roofs of Leningrad are pure propaganda


and how do you know? you was there then?



TxllxT said:


> The State ordered a maximalist positive artistic vision


ever heard of Hollywood and its directors' agreement on painting things rosy for the West?



TxllxT said:


> these artists indeed perfomed this endless merry-go-round feat


hardly with Shostakovitch _8th symphony_ and Prokofiev's _Ivan The Terrible_.



TxllxT said:


> this 100% happiness in the Communist State is as suffocating as hell


actually, no. Communist State 'happiness' was in fact fun and helped many.



TxllxT said:


> That's why Prokofiev & Shostakovich delivered the goods, but very intelligently added spices


its a very moot question, whether they did so. Orson Welles or Stanley Cubric for example, did they slip any double meaning into their films?


----------



## sharik

TudorMihai said:


> Six Stalin prizes and yet, in 1948, he was labeled as "anti-democratic" and much of his music was banned


not banned, but refused the commission by the State and thus staging, which is completely different matters.



TudorMihai said:


> Even his opera _The Story of a Real Man_, which Prokofiev wrote to redeem himself, received a negative review and was banned


its his worst work ever written, it was staged in the 1960s but wasn't liked by anyone who saw it.

what you call 'banned' was in fact not a ban, but merely regection for the reasons of the work done being of a low quality; this is how things were in the USSR where the State acted as a customer.


----------



## TxllxT

sharik said:


> and how do you know? you was there then?
> 
> ever heard of Hollywood and its directors' agreement on painting things rosy for the West?
> 
> hardly with Shostakovitch _8th symphony_ and Prokofiev's _Ivan The Terrible_.
> 
> actually, no. Communist State 'happiness' was in fact fun and helped many.
> 
> its a very moot question, whether they did so. Orson Welles or Stanley Cubric for example, did they slip any double meaning into their films?


The arrival of Lenin in the Finlandia Station of St Petersburg, the shots fired from the Aurora, the storming of the Winter Palace and in this wake: Shostakovich on the roof of the Mariinsky theatre are all fake & part of cleverish propaganda setups. There exists indeed a methodical parallel between Soviet propaganda & Hollywood propaganda on painting the future in one rosy colour. The 100% guaranteed happiness in the Communist State did not tolerate any other future vision to (co-)exist. At present the Russian Orthodox Church in the Russian society is recovering joyously from the oppression it suffered during the Soviet times. Tell me why. It's an interesting fact, that many people remember the times under Stalin in a cheerful manner. Orson Welles and Stanley Kubrick did the same as Shostakovich and Prokofiev. I do like the marches of Prokofiev that are unable to be marched on in real. Franz Kafka's 'Amerika' is probably the first book where the reader is made aware of the eerie one-direction, one-dimension preaching of propaganda. The 'American way of life' is propaganda, just as the Communist State vision (or _Dritte Reich_ etc.)


----------



## sharik

TxllxT said:


> The arrival of Lenin in the Finlandia Station of St Petersburg, the shots fired from the Aurora, the storming of the Winter Palace and in this wake: Shostakovich on the roof of the Mariinsky theatre are all fake & part of cleverish propaganda setup


not the latter one; too inappropriate for a composer a thing to do to be a fake.



TxllxT said:


> There exists indeed a methodical parallel between Soviet propaganda & Hollywood propaganda on painting the future in one rosy colour


yes, Hollywood influenced many others.



TxllxT said:


> The 100% guaranteed happiness in the Communist State did not tolerate any other future vision to (co-)exist


the same as with 'the democracies' these days.



TxllxT said:


> the Russian Orthodox Church in the Russian society is recovering joyously from the oppression it suffered during the Soviet times


not all the time, only twice: under Lenin and then under Khrushtchov.



TxllxT said:


> Orson Welles and Stanley Kubrick did the same as Shostakovich and Prokofiev


then, it appears to be some kind of routine among artists, doesn't it?



TxllxT said:


> The 'American way of life' is propaganda, just as the Communist State vision


that is exactly what i'm trying to put across.


----------



## TrevBus

Dispite the fact I'm not all that into Ballet, I am into Profofiev and his music. I have complete sets of 3 of his B. works.
'Romeo and Juliet' Kirov Orchestra, Leningrad w/ Valery Gergiev conducting. Philips label
'The Stone Flower' Radio Philharmonie Hannover des NDR w/ Michail Jurowski conducting. CPO label
'Cinderella-Cendrillon' Cleveland Orchrestra w/Vladimir Ashkenazy conducting. London labe.

As I have only seen 'Cinderalla'(my wife made me go), I can only go w/the music heard and not the visual. 'Romeo and Juliet' gets my vote for it's Beautiful score and difficult music. 
BTW, I did enjoy the performance, once there.


----------



## Pyotr

Saw Romeo and Juliet for the first time last summer performed by the NYC ballet and what impressed me was(as Petr mentioned) how well the score is integrated into the choreography. Some people don't like ballet because they feel certain numbers drag but every movement in Romeo and Juliet seemed to mean something. With the beautiful dancers, story, colors and music, I was spellbound. Have not seen any other Profofiev ballet, but I'm looking forward to Cinderella, whenever the local company gets around to doing it.


----------



## Copperears

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Well, if only PetrB wasn't banned for the present. Anyhow, I would respond by saying there is. After 1924, Prokofiev didn't believe in death, evil, or the devil, and so planned to have Romeo & Juliet end with Juliet waking up just in time, and all ending happily ever after (he had to rescind his plan because of how many opposed him). Later in life, Prokofiev wasn't nearly as dissonant as he was in the past, and that's not only because of Soviet socialism ideals. He had his own ideals of perfection and light, and produced something of a "all will end well" in him, especially in those late ballets. He moved to the Soviet Union because he use to think they were a government "moving towards the Light" but he soon saw through it. If you hear the 7th symphony too, it's the same mellow sound as the ballets. The dissonance of his late period is more humorous in a good-natured way than sarcastic. People can say all they want about how manipulated by the government he was, but much of what he did _was_ sincere. Sincere enough that he let himself get banned sometimes, but other times genuinely _not banned_, if you know what I mean.


Old post... but I've been listening to The Stone Flower lately, and just love it! Gennady Rozhdentvensky's performance is the one that sounds right to my ears.

Another one - not by Prokofiev, but by Shostakovitch, from a few years earlier, is The Age of Gold. It shares, surprisingly, a musical language with The Stone Flower.

And despite all the BS and obfuscation of politics and cliches about "the Russian melancholy soul," etc., like The Stone Flower, The Age of Gold (whole ballet; not just the suite!) is a work of endless wit, charm, magic and musical irony. We all sit around in the West stroking our beards about this or that hidden commentary or other useless distraction; but the fact remains, the music will outlast our puny time, and be a pleasure for many in the future.

I can't heartily recommend both these ballets enough! The Age of Gold also has a great full performance with Rozhdentvensky and the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic; they have great fun playing this piece.

Link to a 2007 Bolshoi performance of Zloty Vek on YouTube:






And The Stone Flower:


----------



## spradlig

I have written essentially the same thing but in different threads: _Romeo and Juliet_ contains an incredible quantity of great music. I think it has about two hours of consistently great music, with little or no filler, which is a very long time for classical music. I have heard a suite from _Cinderella_ which was also good, but _Romeo and Juliet_ is probably better, simply on the basis of much greater quantity of good music and at least as good quality. I would encourage you to listen to _Romeo and Juliet_ ASAP. I have never actually heard the entire ballet, only several suites drawn from it, but the suites are long, and the great parts of the ballet could not fit into one suite, so I would guess the entire ballet is listenable.

I am not familiar with any of his other ballets, but the fact that they are nowhere near as popular probably means something.

Personally, I do not care very much about dancing, or about the story that the ballet is telling, just the music.


----------



## KenOC

spradlig said:


> I have written essentially the same thing but in different threads: _Romeo and Juliet_ contains an incredible quantity of great music. I think it has about two hours of consistently great music, with little or no filler, which is a very long time for classical music.


Agree totally. I don't care for ballet in general, but this is one astonishingly fine musical score. And as you say, with little filler.

Even the Nutcracker has more filler -- though it's amazingly original, a fact often overlooked due to its familiarity.


----------

