# Opinion on Franz Welser-Möst



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

He's recorded several well-known as well as obscure works. I personally have enjoyed several of his recordings. What is your opinion on him?


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Been to a couple of his concerts in London about 15 (?) years a go. A so-so Beethoven Missa Solemnis and a damn quick Bruckner symphony, No. 8, IIRC - he took it at one hell of a lick.

*But *to all Bruckner fans *DO NOT MISS HIS EMI BRUCKNER 5, LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA*. Argue about the edition* if you have nothing better to do, but make sure you listen to it ....










*1878 Version Ed. Leopold Nowak


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

HenryPenfold said:


> Been to a couple of his concerts in London about 15 (?) years a go. A so-so Beethoven Missa Solemnis and a damn quick Bruckner symphony, No. 8, IIRC - he took it at one hell of a lick.
> 
> *But *to all Bruckner fans *DO NOT MISS HIS EMI BRUCKNER 5, LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA*. Argue about the edition* if you have nothing better to do, but make sure you listen to it ....
> 
> ...


I heard him play Bruckner 5 with the VPO at the Konzerthaus. I thought it was very good, although the orchestra PLAYS TOO LOUD. That's my impression of them everytime I've heard them in the last few years and that conductors just let them go. But the Bruckner was exciting and I think his DVD/Cleveland Bruckner 5 is the best of that series.

Have/had(?) a Beethoven 9 Cleveland that I remember being dulllll.

Odd bird.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

mparta said:


> I heard him play Bruckner 5 with the VPO at the Konzerthaus. I thought it was very good, although the orchestra PLAYS TOO LOUD. That's my impression of them everytime I've heard them in the last few years and that conductors just let them go. But the Bruckner was exciting and I think his DVD/Cleveland Bruckner 5 is the best of that series.
> 
> Have/had(?) a Beethoven 9 Cleveland that I remember being dulllll.
> 
> Odd bird.


Interesting. That pretty much aligns with my experience of him with different orchestras, compositions and cities, but the same composers - a dullard in Beethoven and a demon in Bruckner.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Such promise when he was young, then became a pretty middle of the road conductor. Doesn't do anything badly, but at least on record seems less than electrifying. I've heard in twice in concert: both times doing music of Franz Schmidt. The Book with Seven Seals was awe inspiring. The Fourth Symphony was superb, too. But compared to others in his age group he seems to lack fire. He does have the orchestra playing superbly, though.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Not a big fan, if he hadn't has a big support from his dearest, he was less then mediocre.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

You reminded me: in London the orchestra nicknamed him: Frankly, Worst Than Most.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> You reminded me: in London the orchestra nicknamed him: Frankly, Worst Than Most.


:lol:

Harsh ....


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> You reminded me: in London the orchestra nicknamed him: Frankly, Worst Than Most.


It wasn't only London that arrived at that nickname. More of a global phenomenon.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

EdwardBast said:


> It wasn't only London that arrived at that nickname. More of a global phenomenon.


But there has to be something that gets them to keep him in Cleveland. Although the frequent issue with that very great orchestra is similar to some others, which is subscribers mostly don't want the conductor to screw up the orchestra. I think that's really what Muti is doing in Chicago, he certainly hasn't generated any advances. The alternative trajectory has occurred in Boston more than once, most recently with too much Ozawa.

It's not as if, no matter how great the conductor, the Cleveland orchestra or Chicago symphony are all of a sudden going to sit up and play, as if they weren't before.

I failed to mention that Welser-Moest's Fidelio in Salzburg was good, and the leonore 3 (interpolated) was absolutely world-beating, smoke coming out of the pit. Not only do I remember the sound, but I was sitting close and I saw him turn to the strings and light the fire. A thrilling vision and sound.

So, I have no idea. I am very sorry to have not gone to Cleveland the last few years for the semi-staged operas, Pelleas et Melisande and Ariadne auf Naxos, I think. I bet those were wonderful.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Among the more forgettable of living conductors.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> Such promise when he was young, then became a pretty middle of the road conductor. Doesn't do anything badly, but at least on record seems less than electrifying. I've heard in twice in concert: both times doing music of Franz Schmidt. The Book with Seven Seals was awe inspiring. The Fourth Symphony was superb, too. But compared to others in his age group he seems to lack fire. He does have the orchestra playing superbly, though.


So would you recommend his earlier recordings then? I haven't listened to his recordings extensively, but I have enjoyed the ones I've heard and notice they are from the 90s. His recording of Schmidt's 4th symphony looked appealing as I enjoy his recording of _Das Buch_.


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## perdido34 (Mar 11, 2015)

I've heard FWM many times conducting the Cleveland Orchestra over the years. Years ago, I found many of the performances dutiful, musicianly, and under-energized. But over the last period of years, his conducting has become supercharged with energy, and in a good way. Unfortunately, these performances never were issued on disc or for download. If you didn't hear FWM in Cleveland or on tour, you had to hear them on syndicated broadcast or (crummy) internet radio. Now the orchestra has issued a couple of hybrid SACD sets containing terrific performances of Prokofiev 3rd Symphony, Schubert 9, Beethoven Op 132 for string orchstra, Varese Ameriques, and a few dull contemporary pieces. All of the performances are worth hearing


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

His recording of Franz Schmidt's 4th symphony is a treasure. So pity such a good work does not draw more attention. I went to his performance of Mahler's 2nd with Cleveland when I was in university, and it was a tremendous success.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> It wasn't only London that arrived at that nickname. More of a global phenomenon.





mparta said:


> But there has to be something that gets them to keep him in Cleveland. Although the frequent issue with that very great orchestra is similar to some others, which is subscribers mostly don't want the conductor to screw up the orchestra. I think that's really what Muti is doing in Chicago, he certainly hasn't generated any advances. The alternative trajectory has occurred in Boston more than once, most recently with too much Ozawa.


For the record, I wasn't expressing or endorsing an opinion on Welser-Möst's abilities. It's possible that any conductor with that name would have ended up with the nickname. Some mischief is irresistible.


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