# Favourite Brahms Double Concerto



## Joachim Raff

The Double Concerto was Brahms' final work for orchestra. It was composed in the summer of 1887, and first performed on 18 October of that year in the Gürzenich [de] in Cologne, Germany. Brahms approached the project with anxiety over writing for instruments that were not his own. He wrote it for the cellist Robert Hausmann, a frequent chamber music collaborator, and his old but estranged friend, the violinist Joseph Joachim. The concerto was, in part, a gesture of reconciliation towards Joachim, after their long friendship had ruptured following Joachim's divorce from his wife Amalie. (Brahms had sided with Amalie in the dispute.)

This thread is not a poll. I love to hear folks' opinions on the work. Do you rate the work? Do you have a favourite recording? etc..


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## Art Rock

It has grown on me with the years. I still rate it lower than the violin concerto and the two piano concertos, but the Artrockometer nowadays shows a healthy 4/6 ("desirable", I like to have it in my CD collection). It's a good listen. My version is by Mutter and Meneses with the Berliner under Karajan on DG.


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## DavidA

No question that the best performance is by Heifetz and Feuermann which will leave you open mouthed with their virtuosity in this somewhat problematic work. No problems here though! Unfortunately the recording is ancient so Heifetz and Piatogorsky is a good second.
And Julia Fischer with Daniel Muller-Schott for a modern recording.


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## Judith

Didn't need to think about this one but reckon you're all going to groan lol!

Joshua Bell
Steven Isserlis
ASMF

It is my favourite Brahms Concerto and this recording has a very nice "fresh take" to it.


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## Knorf

I like the piece very much! I don't understand what it's done to earn so much opprobrium! But then, I know people who outright hate Brahms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've not done a large survey, because I discovered Szeryng/Starker/Haitink/Concertgebouw early on and found it plenty satisfying.


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## Brahmsian Colors

My favorite of all concertos. I love the autumnal tones and often wonderful interplay between violin and cello. My top choice for years has been RCA's Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein. Like Knorf, I also enjoy very much Szeryng/Starker/Haitink/Concertgebouw.


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## Caryatid

It's an amazing piece of music, but it's also difficult to take in. I didn't like it at first, and it seems to have gone over the heads of early audiences too. I don't think Brahms wrote anything more dense, which for him is saying something.

There was an interesting version by Nikolaus Harnoncourt on YouTube. He turns it into a bit of a chamber piece, as you might expect. It's no longer on YouTube, but anyone who is getting nothing from conventional recordings could do worse than seek out the CD.

Edit: I found an alternative upload on YouTube.


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## Joachim Raff

Its a piece of music that grows on you after repeated airings. I love the concept of violin and cello interacting with each other. I think that's why top class soloists love to team up with each other. I have chosen two recordings that demonstrate top class performances as well as top notch well balanced sound engineering.

1st Choice:








2nd Choice:


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## Eclectic Al

Is the double concerto the work by Brahms that only those who love Brahms love?


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## Simplicissimus

I like the Brahms Concerto in A Minor for Violin and Cello, Op. 102 very much. I agree that it’s extremely dense. I only listen to it when I’m not going to be interrupted or distracted, not when anyone in the neighborhood is mowing their lawn or blowing snow, and only when I’m perfectly sober. (I don’t listen to it very often, come to think of it.) I have had both of my CD recordings of the piece for a long time and value them equally: Wallenstein/RCA Victor SO with Heifetz and Piatagorsky; and Ormandy/Philadelphia with Stern and Rose. They’re both old recordings but stereo and excellent sound quality, top notch recordings. That said, for this work especially I’d like to get an SACD hi-res recording. Hoping to see some recommendations here for such.


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## neofite

I agree with Knorf. But unlike Caryatid, I fell in love with it at first listen. 

By the way, could somebody kindly explain what is meant by 'dense' in this context? Does it mean that the texture is dense (i.e., lots of instruments playing simultaneously and with multiple counterpoints)? And is there anything bad about such 'density' in music? Or good?


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## Brahmsianhorn




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## Rogerx

Eclectic Al said:


> Is the double concerto the work by Brahms that only those who love Brahms love?


Yes, so what is your favorite.


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## Rogerx

Itzhak Perlman (violin), Mstislav Rostropovich (cello)
Renaud Capuçon (violin) & Gautier Capuçon (cello)
Julia Fischer (violin) & Daniel Müller-Schott (cello)
Wolfgang Schneiderhan (violin), Janos Starker (cello)
Gregor Piatigorsky (cello), Jascha Heifetz (violin)
No 1 depend on the mood I am in .


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## Eclectic Al

Rogerx said:


> Yes, so what is your favorite.


Not good at favourites. However, to pick a couple which have not been mentioned, I think, yet:
Oistrakh/Rostropovitch/Szell/Cleveland
Stern/Ma/Abbado/Chicago


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## Caryatid

neofite said:


> I agree with Knorf. But unlike Caryatid, I fell in love with it at first listen.
> 
> By the way, could somebody kindly explain what is meant by 'dense' in this context? Does it mean that the texture is dense (i.e., lots of instruments playing simultaneously and with multiple counterpoints)? And is there anything bad about such 'density' in music? Or good?


Density is not necessarily good or bad, but I think it is a real characteristic which has an objective basis in the music.

It's basically a description of texture, yes. But it can also be "linear" in the sense of how many motifs are introduced in a given amount of time and how rapidly they are developed.


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## neofite

Caryatid said:


> Density is not necessarily good or bad, but I think it is a real characteristic which has an objective basis in the music.
> 
> It's basically a description of texture, yes. But it can also be "linear" in the sense of how many motifs are introduced in a given amount of time and how rapidly they are developed.


Thank you Caryatid for this explanation!


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## Marc

neofite said:


> I agree with Knorf. But unlike Caryatid, I fell in love with it at first listen.
> 
> By the way, could somebody kindly explain what is meant by 'dense' in this context? Does it mean that the texture is dense (i.e., lots of instruments playing simultaneously and with multiple counterpoints)? And is there anything bad about such 'density' in music? Or good?


I.c. falling in love with it at first listen: count me in, too.
I.c. fav recording: difficult to say. Maybe Schneiderhan/Starker/Radio SO Berlin/Fricsay. Although it has been some time since I last listened to it, I recall it as being less heavy than some other performances. Autumnal, yes, but... with a sunshine!


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## perdido34

There is a live performance issued on a commercial CD recently with Stern, Rose, and Szell/Cleveland. It's at the top of my list, tied with Francescatti, Fournier, and Walter/Columbia Symphony.


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## DavidA

Stern Rose Ormandy is pretty good


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## Gray Bean

Stern/Ma/CSO/Abbado
Kremer/MaiskyVPO/ Bernstein


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## BlackAdderLXX

I'm new here and new to Brahms, so I don't really have much I am able to add to the discussion here other than to say I heard the Brahms Double Concerto today for the first time and I loved it. The third movement in particular was fantastic. I was listening to the Walter/Columbia Symphony box set, so whatever soloists were on that recording.


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## Knorf

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I'm new here and new to Brahms, so I don't really have much I am able to add to the discussion here other than to say I heard the Brahms Double Concerto today for the first time and I loved it. The third movement in particular was fantastic. I was listening to the Walter/Columbia Symphony box set, so whatever soloists were on that recording.


Francescatti and Fournier?


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## MarkW

I first heard it as a young teen in Symphony Hall when Leinsdorf led the BSO and two of its principals (Silverstein and Eskin) in it, but was not taken by it. A few years later I purchased the Heifitz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein disc and that opened my mind. I remember playing it once before and once after dinner and being blown away by it on the night my parents took my younger brother and me to see "To Sir with Love" at our local movie house. That's just the kind of mind I have.  Still my favorite performance.


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## Enthusiast

It is not a flawed or problematic work. But it is largely about the (rather chamber music like) interplay between the two soloists so I think it needs to be approached a little differently to most Romantic concertos. It needs some gentleness and warmth, and it needs to flow. I enjoy many recordings (some have been mentioned - like Casals with Thibaud, Heifetz with Piatigorsky, Oistrakh with Rostropovich and Francescatti with Fournier) but would also mention the Shaham with Wang (a really good one) and both of Kremer's recordings (with Maisky and with Hagen).


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## flamencosketches

I’ve been listening to the Oistrakh/Rostropovich/Szell/Cleveland recording on EMI. It’s spectacular! I’m new to the work but I’m not sure if I’ll ever find a recording to top this one.


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## Animal the Drummer

Try Oistrakh and Fournier on EMI with the Philharmonia conducted by Alceo Galliera, a wonderful concerto accompanist who also contributes to Arthur Grumiaux's stellar reading (the best I've ever heard in my life) of the Violin Concerto on Philips.


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## rice

There's another Heifetz/Piatigorsky version, conducted by Bernstein
In case you don't know already!


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## Strange Magic

Like some others, I fell instantly in love with the double concerto. I wore out the grooves of my old Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein long ago and am also happy with the Stern/Ma/Abbado disc mentioned in an above post. Hard to say which concerto of Brahms is my favorite, as I get swept up into the musical world of whichever one I am hearing. Brahms is The Man.


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## coling

Surely the classic Rostropovich/Permian recording so powerfully accompanied. 

Will always remember an amazing live performance in London decades ago with Natalia Gutman cello and a Russian violinist I can't recollect. Such was the power of her intense performing that at one point she snapped a string. And was handed the principal cellist's instrument to enable it to carry on. 
Must have been either the LPO of Philharmonia at the Festival Hall. 

Of the more recent experiences, have they become too sanitised these days? I remember being underwhelmed by the Capucon brothers and several other rather dull renditions. 

Oh for the good old days of smoke coming out of the fingerboards with so much unbridled energy!!


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## SONNET CLV

I lament that Brahms didn't write his double concerto for accordion and digideroo. I suspect that would be a work about which we'd all find something interesting to discuss.

Brahms does such a great job with the Double Concerto. I've long loved it. I have a handful of versions in my collection, but one I've listened to more than others features three giants high on my "most favorite performers" listing.

The recording is:









By the way, if anyone knows who the conductor of this recording is, please don't tell me. I don't want to spoil my appreciation of it. Thanks.


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## coling

Sorry, meant the classic Oistrakh Rostropovich recording. The Best


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## flamencosketches

SONNET CLV said:


> I lament that Brahms didn't write his double concerto for accordion and digideroo. I suspect that would be a work about which we'd all find something interesting to discuss.
> 
> Brahms does such a great job with the Double Concerto. I've long loved it. I have a handful of versions in my collection, but one I've listened to more than others features three giants high on my "most favorite performers" listing.
> 
> The recording is:
> 
> View attachment 137860
> 
> 
> By the way, if anyone knows who the conductor of this recording is, please don't tell me. I don't want to spoil my appreciation of it. Thanks.


Not a Szell fan...?


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## Josquin13

Coling writes, "Will always remember an amazing live performance in London decades ago with Natalia Gutman cello and a Russian violinist I can't recollect. Such was the power of her intense performing that at one point she snapped a string. And was handed the principal cellist's instrument to enable it to carry on. 
Must have been either the LPO of Philharmonia at the Festival Hall."

If it was prior to 1990, the violinist was almost certainly her late husband, Oleg Kagan, who was a pupil of David Oistrakh's, and subsequently become Sviatoslav Richter's violin duo partner after his teacher passed away (& btw, their Mozart Violin Sonatas are among the finest in the catalogue, in my view, as both Oistakh & Richter thought very highly of Kagan's Mozart playing). Gutman performed regularly with Kagan until her husband's tragic death of cancer in 1990, and they did indeed perform the Brahms Double Concerto frequently together in concert. The two also performed regularly with Sviatoslav Richter as a piano trio. After his death, Kagan's recordings became the basis for the creation of the Live Classics label, and he had also founded a live music festival in the village of Wildbad Kreuth in the Bavarian Alps for his Russian musician friends and for musicians from the west to play together (but I don't know if the festival still exists today?). With Kagan's passing, the musical world sadly lost one of the most brilliant and promising violinists of the post-war generation.

Here are Kagan and Gutman playing the Brahms Double Concerto together in 1981:






A recording was issued on Kagan's Live Classics label: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Nov/Brahms_double_MELCD1002380.htm


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