# Overrated and Underrated in Tandem



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

You get to name things over-rated alongside things under-rated, BUT, here's the catch: *there must be something that links the two things together.* In addition, it would be nice to read your thoughts on the WHY.

For example:

Over: Essa Pekka Salonen, the composer.
Under: Essa Pekka Salonen, the conductor.

His music always strikes me as being cerebral, and soul-less. On the other hand, his conducting has real conviction and energy.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Over: Herbert von Karajan, the conductor of Mahler.
Under: Herbert von Karajan, the conductor of Bruckner.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Over: Cage, 4'33'' (I don't hate it, just think it's not _that_ interesting)
Under: Cage, _Quartets_


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Over: Cage, 4'33'' (I don't hate it, just think it's not _that_ interesting)
> Under: Cage, _Quartets_


OK We heard you the first time!!!


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Overrated: Shostakovich.
Underrated: Shostakovich.

Depends who you ask.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Nereffid said:


> Overrated: Shostakovich.
> Underrated: Shostakovich.
> 
> Depends who you ask.


We're asking you!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Overrated: Sir Simon Rattle on Beethoven
Underrated: Sir Simon Rattle on Mahler.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Over: under
Under: over


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2015)

Over: Ravel's Bolero
Under: Ravel's Bolero


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

20centrfuge said:


> Over: Essa Pekka Salonen, the composer.
> Under: Essa Pekka Salonen, the conductor.


You must be thinking of Esa-Pekka Pakka Picklepeppers. Esa-Pekka Salonen the composer is very engaging to me.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Over: Schoenberg: Verklärte Nacht
Under: Sibelius: Nightride & Sunrise 

A bit of stretch perhaps, but Verklärte has yet to do much for me while the driving infectious gallop and slow transformation of Nightride is hypnotic.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Icarus said:


> Over: Ravel's Bolero
> Under: Ravel's Bolero


Excellent! :tiphat: And I know exactly what you mean, and I agree on both counts.


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

Overrated: Ravel, _Boléro_
Underrated: Jolivet... everything by him, I'd say.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

overrated: orchestral music
underrated: chamber music

overrated: German music
underrated: French music


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Over: Aaron Copland conductor.
Under: Aaron Copland composer.

Too many folks know this composer from his populist works. Yet his best compositions, the Piano Variations and chamber works seem to have been passed over.

As a conductor of his own works, Leonard Bernstein was a better Copland conductor.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Over: composers as conductors (think Richard Strauss, Paul Hindemith)
Under: instrumentalists as conductors (think Marriner, Ashkenazy)


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

^Yes! And Rostropovich. And Uchida.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Over: The 12-tone method
Under: 12-tone music


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## TradeMark (Mar 12, 2015)

Over: The Five (Russians)
Under: Les Six


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## AnotherSpin (Apr 9, 2015)

Over: The Doors
Under: Grateful Dead

Over: Jimi Hendrix
Under: Frank Zappa


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Over: Berg's Violin Concerto 

Under: Schoenberg's Violin Concerto

Yes hpowders, this time I'm going to say it: Berg's Violin Concerto is overrated. Nothing memorable or interesting about it. Just pleasant sonorities. Schoenberg's on the other hand has the right balance of drama, lyricism and fun kind of craziness. And much more "hummable" themes than the "accessible" Berg actually, though much more importantly they are MEMORABLE.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Over rated: Music
Under rated: Listening


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Schoenberg's violin and piano concertos.
Underrated: Schoenberg's quartets and trio.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique
Underrrated: Berlioz's Requiem


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Brahms's clarinet quintet
Underrated: Brahms's first and third string quartets.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Mahler's 2nd symphony
Underrated: Mahler's 7th symphony


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Underrated: Schumann (I've seen too many people call him second rate)
Underrated: Schumann (I've seen too many people call him second rate)

[HR][/HR]

Underrated: Webern
Underrated: Webern


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Boulez.
Underrated: Feldman.


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Overrated: Brahms's clarinet quintet
> Underrated: Brahms's first and third string quartets.


Incorrect, about all of it. You have one hour to repent. 



SeptimalTritone said:


> Overrated: Schoenberg's violin and piano concertos.
> Underrated: Schoenberg's quartets and trio.


I only give you a like for calling the quartets and trio underrated. Absolutely true.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Overrated: Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique
> Underrrated: Berlioz's Requiem


Well, 'no' and 'yes.'


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

quack said:


> Underrated: Music
> Even more underrated: Listening


Fixed.
.

.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Stockhausen's Gesang der Jungliche
Underrated: Stockhausen's Stimmung


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Overrated: Cage, 4'33''
Underrated: Cage, Number Pieces


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Overrated: John Williams' film music
Underrated: Prokofiev's film music


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## Aleksandar (Feb 21, 2015)

Overrated: Haydn's London symphonies
Underrated: Haydn's other symphonies (especially those middle ones, sturm und drang ones)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

SeptimalTritone said:


> Overrated: Boulez.
> Underrated: Feldman.


No way! 

*dislike dislike dislike (times a billion to the power of Graham's number)*


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

20centrfuge said:


> Over: composers as conductors (think Richard Strauss, Paul Hindemith)
> Under: instrumentalists as conductors (think Marriner, Ashkenazy)


Shouldn't that be the other way around?


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Rats.  I had a whole bunch of ideas. Then I checked the above posts and all of them have already been used.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

arpeggio said:


> Rats.  I had a whole bunch of ideas. Then I checked the above posts and all of them have already been used.


Stupid Thread Ideas in a nutshell.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Beethoven's 7th symphony.
Underrated: Beethoven's Harp and Serioso quartets.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Overrated: Mozart's violin concertos.
Underrated: Mozart's Prussian quartets.

(Geez I'm so biased towards quartets aren't I)


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Overrated: RVW's The Lark Ascending 
Underrated: his Dona Nobis Pacem


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## Aleksandar (Feb 21, 2015)

Overrated: Mahler symphony no. 2
Underrated: Mahler symphony no. 1 (well in comparison with the 2nd at least)


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Overrated: Overrated: Overrated: Overrated: 
Underrated: 

Underrated: Underrated:
Overrated: Overrated: Overrated: 
Underrated: 

Underrated: Underrated:
Overrated: 

Underrated: 

Underrated: Underrated:
Overrated:Overrated: Overrated: 
Underrated: 

Underrated: Underrated:
Overrated:


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

_Well, in terms of works/composers/performers overvalued at the expense of others, I would say:_*

Overrated:* Tchaikovsky's First Piano Concerto, 1812 Overture, symphonies 4-6, Romeo and Juliet.
*Underrated:* Tchaikovsky's Second Piano Concerto, Manfred Symphony, Symp. no. 3, Third Suite, his operas.

*Overrated:* Shostakovich and Prokofiev.
*Underrated:* Myaskovsky, Shebalin, founders of the Soviet Avant-garde (Popov, Knipper, Roslavets, Mossolov, Protopopov), Boris Tchaikovsky, Peiko.

*Overrated:* Khachaturian's Sabre Dance from Gayane, Violin Concerto.
*Underrated:* Khachaturian's First Symphony, Spartacus Ballet (yes, the whole thing), film scores.

*Overrated:* Herbert von Karajan, Muti, Abbado, Klemperer, Boult.
*Underrated: *Svetlanov, Kondrashin (and most Russian conductors for that matter), Handley, Suitner, Jochum, Botstein, perhaps Pretre, Bryden Thomson, maybe Wand & Blomstedt.

*Overrated:* Bizet's Carmen.
*Underrated:* Massenet's Esclarmonde (and most of his other operas for that matter).

*Overrated:* Rachmaninoff's Second Symphony, Symphonic Dances, & Second Piano Concerto
*Underrated*: The Miserly Knight, First Symphony, The Isle of the Dead, his songs, Piano Sonata no. I.

*Overrated:* Walton, Vaughan-Williams, Britten, Elgar (arguably).
*Underrated:* Stanford, Parry, Bax, Ireland.

*Overrated:* Mahler (too much of a fashion thing in performing/recording his music) and Strauss.
*Underrated:* Schreker, Zemlinsky, Reger, Draeseke.

*Overrated:* some of Nielsen's orchestral music like the Fourth Symphony, Helios.
*Underrated:* his operas, esp. Maskarade, Aladdin (the whole score), his songs (barely known outside Denmark), Second Symphony.

*Overrated:* Sibelius' Symphony no. I, maybe no. II, no. IV, plus Violin Concerto.
*Underrated:* his Kullervo Symphony, his Sixth, plus Melartin's Fourth Symphony and Violin Concerto.

*Overrated:* Brahms' Symphonies I & II.
*Underrated:* Brahms' Symphony no. III, plus Schumann's Second Symph.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Overrated: The intro of Also Sprach Zarathustra by R. Strauss
Underrated: rest of it


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