# Should concerts be so exclusive???



## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

One of the reasons I don;t go to concerts is because of this superior complexity they have.


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## Tapkaara

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> One of the reasons I don;t go to concerts is because of this superior complexity they have.


You've obviously not been to a concert, at least recently. Or perhaps you live in Victorian England.

When I go to my local symphony (San Diego), I often wear a sweater and jeans for comfort. I used to get all gussied up, but not no more...I was always so uncomfortable. And I am hardly the only one who goes casual...I'd say about 60 to 70% are dressed comfortably. Of course, you will always see the debutantes and dandies who have to put on their best formal attire to attend, but I certainly do not feel out of place in my "scrubs."

At any rate, I never detect an air of superiority from anyone at the concert. The guys dressed like Count Dracula do not look at me and sneer because I am not in tophat and tails. Anyway, I probably know more about the evening's program than the show-off in the white bow tie anyway, so maybe I should be sneering at him...!

But I don't. I simply go to hear good music, and I am always completely at ease doing it.

So, I would suggest, actually try going to a concert and, provided you are not dressed like Harpo Marx or something like that, I don't think anyone will bother you.


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## PostMinimalist

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> One of the reasons I don;t go to concerts is because of this superior complexity they have.


Perhaps this choice makes you feel somehow superior yourself.....


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## Elgarian

I go to operas more than concerts these days, but I've never been aware of any problem such as you describe in either. I wear what I like and feel comfortable in. Looking around I see the widest possible range of dress and attitude, and I have the impression that everyone else is doing what they want too. Some dress formally, some wear jeans. It's obvious from overheard conversations that some are knowledgeable about what's being performed, but also that some know next to nothing. No one seems particularly bothered about what anyone else is doing, though I remember having a conversation with a lady who said she didn't like it when she saw someone skateboarding through the foyer, once. (I might have wondered about that myself, had I been there.)

So I'd say: think twice before taking a skateboard, but otherwise just do your own thing.


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## Lisztfreak

I nonetheless like to dress up. A concert is the only chance for me to air the suit I bought for my prom. What shall I, wear a suit to college? So I enjoy wearing it from time to time, and I don't feel snobbish at all, the suit is quite modern and comfortable. 

Here where I live the average age of concert goers is 50 to 70 years. That can be a bit discouraging. Many of those are there only to show themselves to their friends and acquaintances, and you can see and hear they don't think about music at all.


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## Rasa

I'm a huge suite man myself. I love wearing suits, and when preforming music on stage, wearing a suit is a confidence boost (laugh all you like).

But when going to the matinee opera (the fancy time to go), I make a point of going in jeans and t-shirt just to upset this uptight arrivist snobs with their company bought tickets. I give the people who stare at me a wide grin that implies "**** off" and generally have a good time sitting in clothes that are light enough to stand the heat in the opera house.

So in a way, even tough being a part of the beau-monde that actually gets to go to opera, I'm still sticking it to the man.


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## Aramis

> Should concerts be so exclusive?


Yes.

I can wear "comfortable" clothes every usuall day. Concert is special time, and requires special outfit. By the way, I can't understand why so many people consider elegant clothes as uncomfortable. I don't feel too much difference between wearing suit and sweater/jeans set.


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## Rasa

It's warmer: you have a shirt AND a vest.

And conert is special time for the ear and mind, not the time where everybody can show of their latest suit.


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## Weston

I usually go looking a little professorial - that is with a sport coat but no tie. I do get the impression a lot of the well heeled are just there to look philanthropic and not for the music, but then again that may just be an us vs. them mentality.

The players aren't necessarily dressed appropriately either. If they are playing Mozart, shouldn't they be wearing powdered wigs, stockings, and lace?


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## Aramis

Weston said:


> If they are playing Mozart, shouldn't they be wearing powdered wigs, stockings, and lace?


That's very good idea. I would like to go out like this, but so far I own only baroque/classicism shirt.


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## Edward Elgar

Concerts are not exclusive. People may get the impression they are, as it's not really the norm to get drunk and form a mosh-pit at the opera, knocking into and crushing everyone around you to death. I suppose if classical music did promote self-destruction and bad morals people wouldn't think of it as elitist rubbish and may attend concerts. I'm simply thankful that isn't the case!


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## Tapkaara

I'd say thank goodness it's ok to "dress down" a wee bit for concerts. Not everyone owns a tux and, if formal attire was requisite, we would not get "uninititiated" folks who are new to classical who are on the verge of discovering something new and exciting. I think the more comfortable and accessible we make it, the better more average Joes will be turned on to it.

But for the folks who do dress up, I really wonder if they are there for the music of just to be seen? I have a sinking suspicion that the "real" classical fans are probably the one who go to concerts dressed like me...! (Just a thought!)


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## Aramis

Tapkaara said:


> But for the folks who do dress up, I really wonder if they are there for the music of just to be seen?


But for what reason? Classical music concerts are no longer meeting place for elites, and you can't get more prestige by showing yourself there.

Why people always go to their weddings in these pinguin-looking clothes? They are getting married to spend a life together or just to be seen?


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## Edward Elgar

I'd have no qualms about going to a concert dressed in a bin-liner! There are many reasons for a person to go to a concert, if listening to the music is at the bottom of the list I pity the fools!

People dress up for weddings because it's respectful to the family to make an effort with their appearence. I think musicians would be a lot happier to get more bums on seats than to see rows of dinner jackets and diamond tiaras!


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## Aramis

Edward Elgar said:


> I think musicians would be a lot happier to get more bums on seats than to see rows of dinner jackets and diamond tiaras!


But this is not mutually exclusive. Some of you are talking like only rich people would be able to own a suit and for this reason, common people couldn't go to see a concert. I think that this "hey, I'm cool and easy-looking guy" pose is for show more than old-fashioned attitude, which you find as snobbery.


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## Tapkaara

Edward Elgar said:


> I think musicians would be a lot happier to get more bums on seats than to see rows of dinner jackets and diamond tiaras!


That has got to be so true, I'd think.

And do not get me wrong...I have no problem with folks who do get dressed "to the nines" for a concert. I understand it can be fun. I used to do it. Bt music sounds better in a nice, warm sweater.


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## Lisztfreak

Besides, as for the music itself, I prefer listening to it alone in my room. I go to concerts to see how the music is performed, to hear a new interpretation, to enjoy the acoustics. But in enjoying music as it is, nothing matches a cosy and empty room at your sweet home.


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## Tapkaara

Aramis said:


> But this is not mutually exclusive. Some of you are talking like only rich people would be able to own a suit and for this reason, common people couldn't go to see a concert. I think that this "hey, I'm cool and easy-looking guy" pose is for show more than old-fashioned attitude, which you find as snobbery.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that poor people cannot afford suits.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Lisztfreak said:


> Besides, as for the music itself, I prefer listening to it alone in my room. I go to concerts to see how the music is performed, to hear a new interpretation, to enjoy the acoustics. But in enjoying music as it is, nothing matches a cosy and empty room at your sweet home.


Ditto.

But, as for concerts, I think there is nothing more exciting for to be able to sing out loud all the songs played at such events. Now, I understand some concerts are recorded for tv or cd's.

And for the person who says that only an Oxford alumni can enjoy classical music, I really don't know what are our basis to say this. Please back up your info a little more, because that wasn't professional from you (or may I say THEE?), not that I am, but I try to.


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## Tapkaara

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Ditto.
> 
> But, as for concerts, I think there is nothing more exciting for to be able to sing out loud all the songs played at such events. Now, I understand some concerts are recorded for tv or cd's.:


It's probably not a good idea to sing out loud at concerts. Perhaps there is a reason people come down at you at the concert hall!



MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> And for the person who says that only an Oxford alumni can enjoy classical music, I really don't know what are our basis to say this. Please back up your info a little more, because that wasn't professional from you (or may I say THEE?), not that I am, but I try to.


I think he was being sarcastic.


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## xJuanx

In my case, I like to dress up well becasue I feel like it. But anyways, the joy and pleasure that knowing i'm going to a concert gives me, it's superior to everything. I'm going there to listen to great music, and a have a blast of a time. I really don't care who goes, how they dress, etc
The only thing that bugs me, is when someone who's not a regular goes to check the concert out; and doesn't know how to behave, and moves their legs with the rythim, makes noises, or stuff like that.

You shouldn't miss concerts because of other people!


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Tapkaara said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting that poor people cannot afford suits.


It all depends on the society you are living in. Who's poor for you? My view of poverty is very different from many societies. What you call poor might be middle class in many countries. What someone calls middle class might be poor in a different country.

So for me (according to my views of poverty) there is no way a poor individual could afford a single shoe nor basic life necessities (food, water, etc..)










Therefore, poor people (for me) can not afford a suit.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Tapkaara said:


> It's probably not a good idea to sing out loud at concerts. Perhaps there is a reason people come down at you at the concert hall!
> 
> .


ROFL  No I don't do that yet.


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

xJuanx said:


> In my case, I like to dress up well becasue I feel like it. But anyways, the joy and pleasure that knowing i'm going to a concert gives me, it's superior to everything. I'm going there to listen to great music, and a have a blast of a time. I really don't care who goes, how they dress, etc
> The only thing that bugs me, is when someone who's not a regular goes to check the concert out; and doesn't know how to behave, and moves their legs with the rythim, makes noises, or stuff like that.
> 
> You shouldn't miss concerts because of other people!


You are right, it is also like  respect for a great kind of music, never though of it that way.

I not only move my legs, but when I'm listening to something that gets me going (spiritually and mentally), I tend to move aggressively like if I was possessed by a demon of some sort. Have you watch the Exorcist?


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## Tapkaara

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> It all depends on the society you are living in. Who's poor for you? My view of poverty is very different from many societies. What you call poor might be middle class in many countries. What someone calls middle class might be poor in a different country.
> 
> So for me (according to my views of poverty) there is no way a poor individual could afford a single shoe nor basic life necessities (food, water, etc..)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, poor people (for me) can not afford a suit.


I think I sat next to those two at my last concert...


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## MEDIEVAL MIAMI

Was your last concert in India?


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## Tapkaara

No, it was in San Diego...which is just the darnest thing, isn't it?


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## Sid James

I don't think that concerts are exclusive in terms of dress, but they are somewhat in terms of price. I mean, here the price of attending a concert by the Sydney Symphony Orchestra for two people must be around the $150 AUD mark (I haven't checked). & these are not the most expensive tickets.

This is why I prefer some of the local regional orchestras, university orchestras or youth orchestras. They're much cheaper & you still get a good performance. Of course, sometimes their concerts are out in the suburbs, so you might have to travel. So that's what actually discourages me from attending those, not any exclusivity in terms of dress.


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## Herzeleide

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Should concerts be so exclusive???


They're not exclusive. For me at least, they're cheaper than and therefore less 'exclusive' than concerts of popular music.

Classical music is only perceived as more exclusive because most people aren't really interested in good music, and those that might be lack the access to it because of the hugely dominanting force of popular music, which has far more financial power behind it.


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## xJuanx

MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> You are right, it is also like respect for a great kind of music, never though of it that way.
> 
> I not only move my legs, but when I'm listening to something that gets me going (spiritually and mentally), I tend to move aggressively like if I was possessed by a demon of some sort. Have you watch the Exorcist?


Yeah I do that too! But only when I'm at home.


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## Edward Elgar

Herzeleide said:


> They're not exclusive. For me at least, they're cheaper than and therefore less 'exclusive' than concerts of popular music.
> 
> Classical music is only perceived as more exclusive because most people aren't really interested in good music, and those that might be lack the access to it because of the hugely dominanting force of popular music, which has far more financial power behind it.


My thoughts exactly! I'm put off from going to pop/rock gigs because of the ridiculous price (much more expensive than classical concerts) and because I'd get my head kicked in by the drunken attendees! To me, classical concerts are the least exclusive places to be. You just need a good taste in music in order to enjoy them. Sadly popular culture has destroyed the artistic judgement of the general population.


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## Elgarian

Herzeleide said:


> They're not exclusive. For me at least, they're cheaper than and therefore less 'exclusive' than concerts of popular music.


That's my experience too. Anyone who can afford to buy a ticket for a pop concert can afford to go to an opera (and save enough to go some way towards buying a recording of it).


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## jhar26

I don't go to concerts of big name acts in popular music anymore, and I say that as someone who likes popular music, but prices are just obscene. For the money it would cost me to see Stevie Nicks twirl at a Fleetwood Mac concert I can buy their entire back catalogue.

When I go to a classical concert or the opera I never dress up, and they haven't kicked me out yet.


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## Tapkaara

Nothing like being at the symphony hall, dressed all comfy-like, and having a nip of Scotch before the start and during intermission. Ahhh, can life really get as good as that...indeed it does.


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## Nicola

jhar26 said:


> I don't go to concerts of big name acts in popular music anymore, and I say that as someone who likes popular music, but *prices are just obscene*. For the money it would cost me to see Stevie Nicks twirl at a Fleetwood Mac concert I can buy their entire back catalogue.
> 
> When I go to a classical concert or the opera I never dress up, and they haven't kicked me out yet.


Oooh, I know. The cost of living these days is terrible. What with all the shopping bills and the price of electric, I don't know how I make ends meet. I was only saying to my friend, "Daisy" the other day, chatting in our back yards, if it wasn't for the "social" (government social security handouts benefits for American member) me and my mate we'd be stuffed. And then you get all these lousy MPs screwing the allowances system. Makes you sick. I think I'll join the "Greens" next time round. I don't know what the world is coming to. Oh and I love going to concerts. Always get the best seats, no friggin about with buses either, we get a chauffer-driven limo. Gives me chance to show off my feathers and jewellery. Any concert will do. I'm not fussed really. Thrash Metal or Reggae or Magdalena Kožená singing Sesto in Giulio Cesare, it's all much the same to me. The only thing I insist upon is no kids. Most of the kids these days look shabby and in need of a good haircut and wash. I do like Beethoven. I think Klemperer rules and Jordi Savall stinks. Now, on haircuts, I know a good place er … I've forgotten. Where was I? [pause ... hiccup] Oh yes discussing, Klemperer. Pity he died so young. He did, didn't he? I really have forgotten now. It such a long time, can't be expected to remember everything, can I? Where's that Gin? I hope my further two-penneth to this discussion will be seen as material as everybody else's. It's such a fascinating topic. Anyone see the Oxbridge brigade lately? They usually have very interesting things to say, about on a par with me I'd say.


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## Margaret

Beyond "No shirt, no shoes -- no service" concerts don't come with a dress code.

But as far as evening clothes being uncomfortable some of my evening gowns are structured so I could actually get away with wearing not a stitch beneath the gown. In fact, they're a lot *more* comfortable than many of my blue jeans. The evening gowns as comfortable as a nightgown.

The only thing "exclusive" about concerts is the way you're expected to behave.


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## Elgarian

Margaret said:


> some of my evening gowns are structured so I could actually get away with wearing not a stitch beneath the gown. In fact, they're a lot *more* comfortable than many of my blue jeans. The evening gowns as comfortable as a nightgown.


I'm completely convinced. I'd still feel uneasy about wearing one to a concert myself, though...


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## Margaret

Elgarian said:


> I'm completely convinced. I'd still feel uneasy about wearing one to a concert myself, though...


Well, if you ever do wear one be sure to take a photo and post it on that one thread. _*That's*_ something I'd like to see.


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## danae

I go to concerts in jeans and sneakers. There is no problem. But that doesn't change the fact that at the very same concerts there are people dressed up so..... I don't know... they look like they're going to the Oscars! So there is a wide range of dress-up possibilities and choices at a classical concert in Athens. But still, a lot of people who don't attend classical concerts as often as I do, think that they are SUPPOSED to dress up. And that, in my opinion, even if it's a miscomprehension, is somewhat restricting.


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## wolf

Weston said:


> ...If they are playing Mozart, shouldn't they be wearing powdered wigs, stockings, and lace?





Rasa said:


> ...going in jeans and t-shirt just to upset this uptight arrivist snobs with their company bought tickets...





Tapkaara said:


> ...not a good idea to sing out loud at concerts. Perhaps there is a reason people come down at you at the concert hall...





MEDIEVAL MIAMI said:


> Was your last concert in India?





Edward Elgar said:


> I'm put off from going to pop/rock gigs because I'd get my head kicked in by the drunken attendees...





Nicola said:


> Oooh, I know. The cost of living these days is terrible. What with all the shopping bills...





Elgarian said:


> ...I'd still feel uneasy about wearing one [evening gown] to a concert myself, though...


Hadn't seen this corny thread before...lol...the ghastly sense of humour - or rather the loss of it - is otherwise what I like least about 'classicals'. Like laughing their heads off, if Lorin Maazel clumsily pretends to drop his conductors baton three times in a row...


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## JoeGreen

Whaddya talking about Wolfie?


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## blays

I've known people to go to concerts JUST BECAUSE it feels like a superior, and pseudo-intellectual environment, so those people unfortunately do exist, and will always fill some seats. But that's not the norm. Generally, the dressing up is the one small downer for me, but I still do it, because I feel it's out of respect to the musicians. There's usually always about 15% of the people who are dressed very casually, and about the same amount who are completely and overly dressed up, the rest is a mix inbetween as am I. I'll dress formal, but not excruciating to the body either. Personally if tomorrow they decided to vote for an ultimate dress protocol and the choices were only two: 'casual - dress the way you want' and 'tux for the men, gowns for the women' I'd go for the latter. I do find it a little disrespectful if someone shows up in shorts and sweatshirt...


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## bdelykleon

It depends on the location, here in Brazil or Argentina I never had any problem going casual, most people go this way. In Europe is far different, and I often find myself the only guy without a suit, and depending on the occasion the theater may not even let you in (I was barred in Milan, it was a première). I've never been to America, so I don't know the American concert habits, but it seems that in Europe going to opera or concert may sometimes be just an aquired habit and has the least to do with music.


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## Herzeleide

bdelykleon said:


> It depends on the location, here in Brazil or Argentina I never had any problem going casual, most people go this way. In Europe is far different, and I often find myself the only guy without a suit, and depending on the occasion the theater may not even let you in (I was barred in Milan, it was a première). I've never been to America, so I don't know the American concert habits, but it seems that in Europe going to opera or concert may sometimes be just an aquired habit and has the least to do with music.


Of course, one musn't generalise over the extremely variegated continent that is Europe.


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## Bach

The only concerts I ever attend are solo recitals, opera and rave ups at the ministry of sound. The solo recitals cost about a tenner a seat, the opera costs about fifty.


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## brianstreet54

Good point Edward Elgar


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