# Mahler: Discussion and Recommendations



## socksband101

I would like to talk about probably the most talk about later romantic composer, Gustav Mahler. I pose a series of questions. First, why is he considered so modern? His works sound very romantic to me, and don't come anywhere the "moderness" of Richard Strauss's Operas. Second, I find some of his music absolutely mind blowing, but why does everyone rave so much about the 9th symphony? I find the first and last movements to be great, the middle two seem just like filler. Third, any good recommendations of symphonies of Mahler? I've already hear 3 and 9, so my opinion of him is solely based on those two symphonies.


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## World Violist

socksband101 said:


> I would like to talk about probably the most talk about later romantic composer, Gustav Mahler. I pose a series of questions. First, why is he considered so modern? His works sound very romantic to me, and don't come anywhere the "moderness" of Richard Strauss's Operas. Second, I find some of his music absolutely mind blowing, but why does everyone rave so much about the 9th symphony? I find the first and last movements to be great, the middle two seem just like filler. Third, any good recommendations of symphonies of Mahler? I've already hear 3 and 9, so my opinion of him is solely based on those two symphonies.


Oh goodness, this'll take awhile for me to answer... 

Mahler is considered modern, I think, because he actually takes romantic music and wrings its neck. I mean, you listen to the 3rd movement of the Ninth symphony and you hear this beautiful, gorgeous theme... and then it's torn apart, ridiculed and maimed. See?

Second, the Ninth symphony is the subject of many "raves" because it's just that amazing. Regarding the middle two movements (and believe me, I didn't see much in them either until I really listened to them), If you see the symphony as a whole in this sort of quest to regain innocence or something (the first movement starts innocently and then loses it), then the middle movements are very logical; progressively more violent as the work progresses. Then the Rondo-Burleske ends (violently) and then this A-flat randomly rises up and starts the last movement, which regains the "hero"'s innocence, as a sort of "reflection" at the end of the hero's life. It works.

You should really get all of Mahler's symphonies. The best way I can think of to get the whole thing at once is this little gem:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-The-Co...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221007245&sr=1-1

This is a great introduction to all the symphonies (it was mine!). However, if you want to spend a bunch of money on Mahler, here are some great readings:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221007330&sr=1-5
Symphonies Nos. 1 & 5 (with Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen to boot!), Bernstein/Concertgebouw Amsterdam (Symphony 1), Vienna Philharmonic (the rest)

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221007366&sr=1-1
Symphony No. 2, Michael Tilson Thomas (MTT)/San Francisco Symphony (SFSO)

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-Hybrid-SACD/dp/B0001LVZDE/ref=pd_sim_m_6
Symphony No. 4, MTT/SFSO

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221007428&sr=1-2
Symphony No. 6, Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-7/dp/B000009CYE/ref=pd_sim_m_7
Symphony No. 7, Bernstein/New York Philharmonic

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-8-Kindertotenlieder/dp/B00000K4J6/ref=pd_sim_m_4
Symphony No. 8, Bernstein/London Philharmonic

And as for the symphonies you already have, I might be so bold as to recommend other CD's of those, if you don't mind (or have them already):

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-3-Lieder/dp/B00000JQGV/ref=pd_sim_m_2
Symphony No. 3, Bernstein/NY Philharmonic

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221007547&sr=1-9
Symphony No. 9, MTT/SFSO

These are by no means the best (except for some, possibly), and I hope other people revise this list and such things... but these are pretty much my choices (except the Second Symphony, with which I would much rather go with the later Bernstein recording, but the MTT one is probably much better as an introduction).

Also: If you get the whole box I mentioned, don't get any of the Bernstein/NYPO or London Phil CDs I mention here; they're the same thing... but the 1st, 5th, and 6th are different.

I hope you enjoy Mahler!

Regards,
WV


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## Rachovsky

My thoughts on the recordings...

Solti's 8th is far superior to Bernstein's.

I bought MTT's 2nd of Mahler first, but I've grown to like his the least out of my 4-5 recordings. I feel that it's too timid at points. If you want structure, buy Sir Simon Rattle's interpretation with the CBSO. If you want power, buy either Mehta's decca recording or Solti's. 

I agree that Bernstein is the best for his first symphony.

I feel that there are far better recordings of his Tragic symphony than Bernstein. If you want structure on this one I'd choose Haitink. If you want power I'd choose Eshcenbach or Solti.

I could go on, but I'll stop there


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## World Violist

I bet Solti's reading of Mahler's 8th is excellent, but seeing as I don't have it and Bernstein's is still a remarkable recording... but still, point taken.

I still very much like MTT's recording of the 2nd, mostly because it still holds tension throughout, the playing is absolutely superb, and the scherzo and finale are both to die for. I never really enjoyed Mehta's recording; the phrasing is so awkward, and in the finale he seems so uninvolved... but that's just my opinion. Bernstein and MTT have such concentration in their interpretation, and their phrasing is immaculate and natural. Thus MTT and Bernstein being my favorites.


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## Rachovsky

Yes I agree that Mehta's recording isn't phrased well. It's bombastic instead. 

You should get Solti's recording of the 8th! It's said to be the best recording of the 8th ever.


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## World Violist

Rachovsky said:


> You should get Solti's recording of the 8th! It's said to be the best recording of the 8th ever.


Yes, but I have my doubts. Solti was a very intense conductor, but sometimes I doubt the 8th would benefit from it. It needs to be epic... not necessarily intense, but real, heartfelt, and therein lies the intensity. That's why I'm quite satisfied with my Bernstein recording; I don't ask for anything more, it's complete.


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## dpc

Strauss perhaps uses more modern orchestral _effects_ but Mahler's overall harmonic language is more modern to be sure. This can be seen by the influence of the two composers on modern music. Strauss's influence ends with the early film composers such as Steiner and Korngold (who also favors Mahler a lot) while Mahler's influence continues in film to this day. Mahlers influence also remained in the classical world almost uninterrupted throughout the 20th century from Schoenberg to Shostakovich to Adams. His compositional approach (the use of _cells_ rather than musical _phrases_) orchestration and even harmony prevailed extensively. One could argue that Strauss's orchestration is echoed in John Williams (Herb Spencer actually - who orchestrated for JW for many years) but nothing like Mahler's influence on generations of composers.

Check out Berstein's recording of the 6th with New York from the late 60's on CBS. Simply stunning.


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## Chi_townPhilly

I think this is a great point:


World Violist said:


> Mahler is considered modern, I think, because he actually takes romantic music and wrings its neck.


Mahler can be really subversive the way his music can seem to be arc-ing in some apparently inevitable direction only to purposefully derail for one of a multitude of reasons.

Back to the point of the original poster- and that was (paraphrased) 'I'm having trouble seeing what's pioneering about Mahler, having heard 3 and 9.' For those of us who've heard all of the Mahler symphonies multiple times, we are bound to have a most favorite... _and a least favorite_. 3 is *my* least favorite, so I have some sympathy with your thought process. However, _please_ don't give up on Mahler just because of our shared lack of appreciation for 3! In the case of 9, however, I have it on my "fav-10 of all time" symphonies list, so I can't empathize quite as easily.

We could have a really spirited discussion about favorite Mahler sets (like the Penguin Guide, I like Solti's), but I think that would get us away from the concerns of the thread-starter. Much as I love Mahler, I can't recommend a complete set to someone who may not wind up liking Mahler a whole lot.

The most common entreés into Mahler are Symphonies 1 and 4. I would try those works before making any final conclusions on this composer.


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## World Violist

dpc said:


> Check out Berstein's recording of the 6th with New York from the late 60's on CBS. Simply stunning.


I have that recording, but it's not quite up there, I don't think. The first movement is very brisk, and while I don't have any other recordings of this work I think it's safe to say that there's something almost wrong about it; messy, almost. Bernstein's later one (first movement), from what I've heard, is still brisk, but has about 2 minutes more than his previous one. It allows the music space to grow...

Anyway, away from CD's I've never heard before...  I agree with Chi_town that Mahler's First is a very good introduction (I started with the Sixth, by the way, and MAN is that a rollercoaster!!!). The Fourth I'm not so sure about; indeed, it's the one Mahler symphony I'm LEAST familiar with. The Second is probably the best out of his first four symphonies, though, in terms of thematic development, cohesion, etc., and it exhibits classic Mahler at his finest (the finale is quite possibly one of the most monumental ever written): A struggle from darkness into light, unconventional structure, searing parody (note the third movement), a false ending (last movement) that then alters significantly but maintains the same basic form and that results in a massive overwhelming end (as do symphonies 1, 6, and 8 at least; not so sure about others). For an introductory recording to Mahler's 2nd, I'd actually recommend (despite Rachovsky's attachment to Solti) Bernstein's 1960's recording with the New York Philharmonic. It not only has an absolutely stunning rendition of the Second symphony, but it also has some very good fillers: the adagietto from the Fifth symphony and the first movement of the Eighth symphony. It would definitely be my first choice (yes, forget about my MTT recommendation earlier... Bernstein just owns the Second, in my humble opinion).


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## dpc

World Violist said:


> I have that recording, but it's not quite up there, I don't think. The first movement is very brisk..


The tempo marking for the first movement is _Allegro, energico, ma non troppo_ which means fast, energetic but not too much. Obviously you think it's _too much._ But that marking means _not too fast_ yet still *fast*. Mahler who has the most thorough and thoughtful direction markings of any major composer in history would never have used _allegro_ if he didn't want it moving along very quickly. He is directing only that it not go so fast as to lose the music's structural essence. The frenetic quality is Mahler not Bernstein. Conductor's that try and make it stately, noble and less energetic are imposing themselves on the music. I think Bernstein has it exactly right making other versions far less satisfying.


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## World Violist

dpc said:


> The tempo marking for the first movement is _Allegro, energico, ma non troppo_ which means fast, energetic but not too much. Obviously you think it's _too much._ But that marking means _not too fast_ yet still *fast*. Mahler who has the most thorough and thoughtful direction markings of any major composer in history would never have used _allegro_ if he didn't want it moving along very quickly. He is directing only that it not go so fast as to lose the music's structural essence. The frenetic quality is Mahler not Bernstein. Conductor's that try and make it stately, noble and less energetic are imposing themselves on the music. I think Bernstein has it exactly right making other versions far less satisfying.


I'm not saying Bernstein is wrong. Just that a slight amount slower (like the later Bernstein on DG) would probably be a bit better. Bernstein did do a great job with the NYPO, that I'm not doubting.


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## Elaryad

I just have Solti's 2nd and I love it. Wonderful! And I have the 1st with Mariss Jansons. I don't think I have listened well but, because of the composition or the conductor, the 1st didn't please me much.


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## dpc

World Violist said:


> I'm not saying Bernstein is wrong. Just that a slight amount slower (like the later Bernstein on DG) would probably be a bit better. Bernstein did do a great job with the NYPO, that I'm not doubting.


Well, that's the glory of multiple recordings.  Conductors often times put a slighly different spin on a recording the second time. Or they change a little philosophically or whatever. I would like to hear the DG recording and don't doubt it's great. I think Bernstein is the ultimate Mahler interpreter.


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## BAWIG05

World Violist said:


> Yes, but I have my doubts. Solti was a very intense conductor, but sometimes I doubt the 8th would benefit from it. It needs to be epic... not necessarily intense, but real, heartfelt, and therein lies the intensity. That's why I'm quite satisfied with my Bernstein recording; I don't ask for anything more, it's complete.


Your doubts are very reasonable. Solti's 8th is still excellent, his soloists incomprable and his choir...try to beat it. Solti rushes through everything and misses that very heartfelt quality you want.

Tennstedt is tremedous, using smaller forces but with a warmth and sincerity that's hard to find. Chaily on Decca is slow and grand but there's absolutely not question that everything goes right. Finally, Wit on Naxos is a terrific bargain option that is beautiful in every single aspect. Solti is good, but not the best.


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## BAWIG05

I love the 4th, because it's an excellent symphony for both listeners AND conductors new to Mahler. Szell and Reiner both have notable Mahler fourths.

Same with the first. Ricardo Muti's only Mahler recording is a terrific first.


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## purple99

socksband101 said:


> any good recommendations of symphonies of Mahler


From a recent performance of the 6th:

View attachment 270


She was tiny lady but, Lordy, did she belt it.  I wouldn't want to be her husband arriving home drunk if she was in 'rolling pin' mood. Seriously, the 6th is highly dramatic and culminates in two or three hammer blows -- depending on the score used -- signifying the blows of fate.



> The last movement is an extended sonata form, characterized by drastic changes in mood and tempo, the sudden change of glorious soaring melody to deep pounded agony. The movement is punctuated by three hammer blows. Alma quotes her husband as saying that these were three mighty blows of fate befallen by the hero, "the third of which fells him like a tree".
> 
> Wiki


NB Take anything Alma says with a pinch of salt.


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## SamGuss

I find Mahler to be exhausting. I mean this in a good way. I've discovered for instance that listening to Mahler while trying to do anything major besides listening to Mahler has adverse effects - things, driven by the music - throws me off balance, or catches me suprise. Yet, to sit back and just enjoy his music while doing something that requires little else is very enjoyable - and I also learned that whatever is played afterwards, unless another Mahler piece is unfilling.

Here is a great in-depth look at major recordings of Mahler's works that I have enjoyed reading and indeed using as a platform currently and into the future to build my Mahler collection. Mahler is one of the composers that I look forward to collecting various versions of his work. I hope you find it interesting as well.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html


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## Chi_townPhilly

socksband101 said:


> ...why does everyone rave so much about the 9th symphony? I find the first and last movements to be great, the middle two seem just like filler.


It intrigued me to explore this question further, since I have the 9th on my (very) short list of all-time favorite symphonies.

I think the brief answer for the content of the middle movements lies in the realm of 'dramatic pacing.' Mahler, of course, knew about dramatic pacing from an interpretive as well as a creative standpoint, having perhaps as great a knowledge of Opera as anyone living in his era. Do we have a point in saying that the opening and concluding movements are the most memorable parts of the piece? I suppose so- but then I think that the intensity of the first and last movement is not something that could or should be reasonably expected to be sustained over the entire length of the work.


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## Lang

dpc said:


> The tempo marking for the first movement is _Allegro, energico, ma non troppo_ which means fast, energetic but not too much. Obviously you think it's _too much._ But that marking means _not too fast_ yet still *fast*. Mahler who has the most thorough and thoughtful direction markings of any major composer in history would never have used _allegro_ if he didn't want it moving along very quickly. He is directing only that it not go so fast as to lose the music's structural essence. The frenetic quality is Mahler not Bernstein. Conductor's that try and make it stately, noble and less energetic are imposing themselves on the music. I think Bernstein has it exactly right making other versions far less satisfying.


On the other hand, those conductors who set off in too much of a rush have to slow down when it comes to the second subject. This involves an ugly and intrusive gear change.

Barbirolli's performance of 6th was widely criticised as being too slow, but it seems to me to be the only authentic performance of this symphony I have heard. The slower tempo brings out the tension implicit in the music, and the second subject continues at exactly the same tempo as, surely, it is supposed to.


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## nefigah

Hello, I don't post here much because I only have a month or two of classical music experience under my belt, but Mahler was recommended to me early on, and I have to tell you, that it is probably my favorite of the music I've obtained so far. I have the 1st, 2nd, and 5th symphonies -- I've yet to tackle 5 yet though. But 1 & 2 are amazing! I wholeheartedly recommend them.


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## Eftos

mahler? really? if you like it simple, a good choice.
serious: he is rather static, compared to (hey: someone else than schönberg and consorts)
lol, mahler 2008, funny!


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## nickgray

Awesome guy that Mahler  Abbado's 6th and Martinon's third are probably my favourites.


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## dpc

Lang said:


> On the other hand, those conductors who set off in too much of a rush have to slow down when it comes to the second subject. This involves an ugly and intrusive gear change.
> 
> Barbirolli's performance of 6th was widely criticised as being too slow, but it seems to me to be the only authentic performance of this symphony I have heard. The slower tempo brings out the tension implicit in the music, and the second subject continues at exactly the same tempo as, surely, it is supposed to.


My point was that if the composer sets you off at whatever tempo (fast in this case) then you should honor his wishes. This combined with Mahler being known for sudden changes in every imaginable way (tempo, dynamics etc.) all the more reason to follow his map closely. In the Bernstein 6th of the late 60's the transition you mentined is glorious and not at all awkward.


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## Lang

I haven't heard the Bernstein recording, but I do have a great deal of respect for his interpretations, so clearly I should get to hear this one.


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## bertalm

I would recommend Abbado's 2nd, 5th and 6th on DVD


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## World Violist

Has anyone heard this recording? I'm highly tempted by it:










I've always respected Ozawa Seiji from somewhat of a distance; I have no recordings of his, but I know that he has his great recordings. If this is one of the really great Eighths, I think I'll go for it. And considering that most of Ozawa's CDs are ridiculously underrated...


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## Arleen82592H30

My favorite is the 6th, easily, ive heard all of them, but i love the bipolar sounds in that one, not to mention the slight irony of its history.


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## Edward Elgar

Who can't fall in love with the 6th?! That beautiful second subject of the 1st mvt.! I find myself singing it walking down the street. I love it!


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## opus67

purple99 said:


> From a recent performance of the 6th:
> 
> View attachment 270
> 
> 
> She was tiny lady but, Lordy, did she belt it.  I wouldn't want to be her husband arriving home drunk if she was in 'rolling pin' mood.


Is that from the Proms concert with Haitink at the helm?


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## Atabey

Rachovsky said:


> Yes I agree that Mehta's recording isn't phrased well. It's bombastic instead.
> 
> You should get Solti's recording of the 8th! It's said to be the best recording of the 8th ever.


Yes it is said to be.However i would say three performances i heard better it.Solti is his usual self in Mahler's 8th.Bombastic theatreman who can overwhelm many with the power and grandeur he brings to the music.He catches the operatic essence of the work like no one else.If you like that Georg Solti is your desert-island stuff.I,however, much prefer readings by Klaus Tennstedt, Gary Bertini and Antoni Wit for the reasons i stated earlier somewhere in this forum.Tennstedt and Bertini recordings are not available as single issues but available in the boxsets containing conductors' recordings of all Mahler symphonies.Well,i see no problem in that because in my opinion both sets are much much superior to Bernstein set recommended above in nearly every aspect -the execution of Tennstedt's London Phil is inferior to Bernstein's NY Phil-.So if you decide to buy one of these sets you will be served better noy only in the 8th but also in the rest of the symphonies for the same price as Bernstein's if not cheaper.Wit is available both as single issues and boxset.


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## World Violist

If you can find it, Seiji Ozawa's recording of Mahler's 8th with the Boston Symphony is another great one; it is easily my favorite one that I've heard so far (though I have heard none of Atabey's recommendations; hopefully to be remedied eventually). The attention Ozawa puts into every last detail is stunning, and the interpretation itself is not to be forgotten!


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## Chi_townPhilly

Atabey said:


> Tennstedt and Bertini recordings are not available as single issues but available in the boxsets containing conductors' recordings of all Mahler symphonies.


I would have gotten the Tennstedt complete set, if it has been priced competitively. At the time I made my buy, it was priced MUCH higher than the Solti set, on this side of the pond.

Oh, well. Maybe one day...


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## meschman

*mahler symphonies are modern?*

mahler is considered modern because his music is like two pounds of peanuts in a one pound bag  the form and harmony are distended beyond recognition (on occasion), and the orchestrations are bloated far beyond what had been considered normal (50 years before his first symphony).

like bruckner and richard strauss, sequences can go on endlessly, climax after climax, for no apparent reason. but there are moments of beauty unspeakable.

my current favorite recording is mahler's third berstein/ny phil. the playing is a touchstone, and the interpretation brings order to a vast score.


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## bongos

I want to know Mahler Symphonies, beginning today.As I type Im listening to Mahler First /Royal Philharmonic /Yuri Siminov recorded 1994 in London CTS Studios .I also have Mahler 2 Israel Phil /Mehta and Mahler 7 /Concertgebouw /Haitink which I am looking forward to soon........ maybe today . Mahler first is great , so well resolved via my Grado 325i Headphones as good as live ..better than concert halls with mediocre acoustics  in my humble opinion


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## Atabey

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I would have gotten the Tennstedt complete set, if it has been priced competitively. At the time I made my buy, it was priced MUCH higher than the Solti set, on this side of the pond.
> 
> Oh, well. Maybe one day...


Oh really!A shame...In Amazon right now it is 50 dollars compared to Solti's 80.And Bertini set is also 50 bucks.


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## bongos

hi all , you do not have to buy a set to get Tennstedt Mahler 8 .This CD is 4 and 8 and it is on the great Recordings of the century series from EMI Classics.The remastering is done by ART (Abbey Road Technology ) and so you get a great performance and great sound too


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## World Violist

If you don't mind old recordings, here's a really great, really cheap release:










Symphony No. 1; Mitropoulos/Minnesota
Symphony No. 4; Mengelberg/Concertgebouw
Symphony No. 5; Walter/NYPO
Symphony No. 9; Walter/VPO

All are at the very top of the greatest interpretations, and although their sound is dated (all but one is from WWII, the latest one recorded in 1949), they are in quite listenable sound.


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## JTech82

Some great Mahler sets:


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## JTech82

Some great individual Mahler recordings:

Symphony No. 1:










Symphony No. 2 (Mehta's reading comes in a close second):










Symphony No. 3:










Symphony No. 4 (Rattle's reading comes in a close second):


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## JTech82

Symphony No. 5 (Rattle's reading with the BPO coming in a close second):










Symphony No. 6 (Rattle's reading coming a very close second):










Symphony No. 7:










Symphony No. 8:


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## JTech82

Symphony No. 9 (HANDS DOWN THE BEST VERSION I'VE HEARD FROM ANYONE):










Symphony No. 10:


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## bongos

those using the term BEST recording , I hope you mean FAVOURITE . There cannot be a BEST


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## bongos

these are my 4 favourite Mahler Symphony 2 (Resurrection )


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## World Violist

bongos said:


> those using the term BEST recording , I hope you mean FAVOURITE . There cannot be a BEST


Jtech wasn't saying "best"--he said "some great Mahler recordings."

Just thought I'd clarify that.


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## bongos

breathing down their neck are 2 live recordings. Klemperer in Munich 1965 and John Barbirolli in Stuttgart in 1970.If you like brass, listen to Barbirolli live in Stuttgart .the brass is a BLAST !!!


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## World Violist

Thank you for mentioning those two Resurrections. I was looking at one of the two Barbirolli recordings (the other being a live one from Berlin), and kinda wondering which was better.


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## bongos

I can recommend these 2 live recordings wholeheartedly .They are extremely highly regarded ,and beautifully remastered. Go to Passionato online and listen to all movements of those 2 .I do not know the Barbirolli /Berlin Mahler 2 .I will go looking for it online


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## World Violist

I wonder how slow the final tempo is (the last "Aufersteh'n")... God, that Barbirolli one sounds thrilling. It sounds like he was really gearing up to quite the overwhelming finish, and then... the sample ended. Terrible. But hey, it makes me want to buy it, so they did their job, darn it.


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## bongos

perhaps you mean this , World violist ?I have not heard it and heard no reviews


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## World Violist

Yes, that is the one that I meant. I've read reviews on Amazon. That's all. One of them makes reference to the Stuttgart performance you recommended. That person preferred it to the Berlin.


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## bongos

yes I saw that an Amazon private reviewer said that the Stuttgart concert is "infinitely better" the choir in the Stuttgart concert is awesome , the microphoning was able to sound stage the sections of the choir , some women off centre right and some men off centre left .I havent heard a modern performance that bothers to do that .If you do , let me know .Sound stage is important to me .,an important ingredient to realism , this can be done in the studio too


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## handlebar

bongos said:


> perhaps you mean this , World violist ?I have not heard it and heard no reviews


I own that excat CD. It is a good performance although I hear a few cuts that I don't admire. But on the whole not bad. I guess Barbirolli is not my favourite Mahler conductor.
But that might change as I warm up to it after repeated listening. I always try to give a recording and conductor/orchestra at least a year of listening before I go hog wild on reviews.

Jim


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## bongos

hi Handlebar , I didnt want to give the impression that I am swayed by reviews .My own ears are my reviewer . I have since heard the Berlin Live concert by Barbirolli , and I am afraid I cannot be moved by any MONO recording no matter how wonderful the performance is .Have you heard the Stuttgart Concert ? It is in well remastered stereo and I love it


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## handlebar

bongos said:


> hi Handlebar , I didnt want to give the impression that I am swayed by reviews .My own ears are my reviewer . I have since heard the Berlin Live concert by Barbirolli , and I am afraid I cannot be moved by any MONO recording no matter how wonderful the performance is .Have you heard the Stuttgart Concert ? It is in well remastered stereo and I love it


I have indeed and agree that it is better. The phrasing and tempo are good.
While i agree that mono and pre-war electrical are an acquired taste to stereo and digital ears, certain recordings are wonderful in their intensity and power. For instance, the M9 with Walter from 1938 and the M4 with Mengelberg in 1939. Both are well worth the listening experience.

Of course nothing compares to being in the audience at a live concert.

Jim


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## bongos

yes I like live concerts .We have a New Zealand Symphony orchestra that comes to Auckland .I went to them playing Mahler Symphony 3 a few weeks ago .Very enjoyable but my bum got sore sitting for so long without an interval  Im sure you wont mind me showing off the orchestra being in the Naxos Bruckner symphony line up


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## World Violist

handlebar said:


> I have indeed and agree that it is better. The phrasing and tempo are good.
> While i agree that mono and pre-war electrical are an acquired taste to stereo and digital ears, certain recordings are wonderful in their intensity and power. For instance, the M9 with Walter from 1938 and the M4 with Mengelberg in 1939. Both are well worth the listening experience.
> 
> Of course nothing compares to being in the audience at a live concert.
> 
> Jim


I'm listening to the Walter M9 right now, actually. I never thought I'd ever hear such a fast performance that was so incredibly intense!


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I'm listening to the Walter M9 right now, actually. I never thought I'd ever hear such a fast performance that was so incredibly intense!


Have you heard Boulez's take on M9 W. Violist? It's also quite good. Boulez is somebody that constantly surprises me with his versatility as a conductor.


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## World Violist

Mirror Image said:


> Have you heard Boulez's take on M9 W. Violist? It's also quite good. Boulez is somebody that constantly surprises me with his versatility as a conductor.


I have only heard Boulez's M1. It's quite good, if memory serves; it's been a while since I've heard it. I've always been somewhat skeptical of his Mahler; he's a hyper-analytical conductor, and sometimes that doesn't really work with Mahler... except for the symphonies that literally need it like the 6th. You know, I'll give him another go.


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## Mirror Image

World Violist said:


> I have only heard Boulez's M1. It's quite good, if memory serves; it's been a while since I've heard it. I've always been somewhat skeptical of his Mahler; he's a hyper-analytical conductor, and sometimes that doesn't really work with Mahler... except for the symphonies that literally need it like the 6th. You know, I'll give him another go.


Yeah, like all conductors Boulez has his group of critics, but I heard his reading of Symphony No. 6 and I'm very impressed, but he's not my favorite Mahler conductor.

Rattle, Bernstein, Chailly, Kubelik, Solti, Abbado, and Tennstedt are my favorite Mahler conductors.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Mirror Image... from Ontario said:


> Rattle, Bernstein, Chailly, Kubelik, Solti, Abbado, and Tennstedt are my *favorite* (emphasis mine) Mahler conductors.


Don't our "north-of-the-border" colleagues typically write "favourite?!"

Oops.


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## bongos

in New Zealand we not only write favourite, but we also write flavour , colour and labour


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## handlebar

Even though many Americans spell the above without "u", I tend to write and type older English style due to time spent in England and my upbringing and literature habits. Just the way I do things.

I also usually spell centre with an "e" on the end LOL

Jim


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## bongos

yes we do centre and theatre .USA has an interesting approach to theatre and theater , one is used for the building and one for the art ,is that correct, Jim?


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## handlebar

Yes, that's true. A theatre can be a "movie house" or it can be a place where plays are staged.

Jim


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## carontes

What about Das Lied von Erde? never gets talked about when discussing the symphonies, but Mahler himself described it as one.


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## emiellucifuge

My teacher recently conducted that piece and I was privileged enough to assist with balancing the singers against the orchestra. I thinkt hat is the most challenging aspect about the piece, especially as they so often reach the bottom of their range.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

carontes said:


> _What about *Das Lied von Erde*?_


Mahler's masterpiece.

Two favourite readings: VPO/Bernstein with Fischer-Dieskau
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Bernst...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1291903369&sr=1-1

And Schönberg's luscious chamber reduction:
http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Lied-E...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1291903420&sr=1-1


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## Guest

Sebastien Melmoth said:


> Mahler's masterpiece.
> 
> Two favourite readings: VPO/Bernstein with Fischer-Dieskau
> http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Bernst...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1291903369&sr=1-1
> 
> And Schönberg's luscious chamber reduction:
> http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Lied-E...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1291903420&sr=1-1


The Bernstein recording, with two male voices, rather than one male and one female, is also a favorite of mine (Fischer-Dieskau singing Mahler, what could go wrong?).

If you like a female voice singing the Abschied, though, then I heartily recommend the Klemperer recording on EMI with Christa Ludwig and Fritz Wunderlich. Alternatively, the Kubelik recording on Audite with Waldemar Kmentt and Janet Baker is also very fine.

This work has been one of my favorites from Mahler since I first heard it.


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## claroche

Has anyone here checked out the Chailly cycle with the Royal Concertgebouw? I've listened to dozens and dozens of recordings of the 5th, and, for balance, I think I'm returning to the Chailly more often.

On a related note I prefer the cheaper Bernstein cycle to the latter one on every entry EXCEPT the 5th, which is sort of mangled in the first cycle. I've always found the performance of the 2nd to be underrated -- Bernstein takes the finale at a brisker tempo than most, and it works.

The first Solti cycle is also superior IMHO to the more modern recordings of Solti/CSO if you can get past the weird recording techniques used.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

There's a movie made about Mahler, here's a trailer...


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## Ralfy

DG has a "People's Edition" for sale:

http://www.mahler150.com/en_GB/dream-mahler


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