# Bruckner's Apocalyptic



## tahnak

Would welcome good recordings' mention of Bruckner's C Minor Eighth:
1. Wilhelm Furtwangler - Berliner Philharmoniker (1949) - The Definitive - Vox
2. Zubin Mehta - Israel Philharmonic - Sony
3. Gunter Wand - Nord Deutsches Rundfunk Sinfonische - RCA
4. Pierre Boulez - Wiener Philharmoniker - Ars Nova

I would like to know if anyone has heard Sergiu Celibidache with the Stuttgart. His readings are phenomenal for Bruckner.


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## Rondo

The 8th is probably my favorite Bruckner symphony. I have the Wand/Berliner and Barenboim/Berliner recordings. The latter is really worth hearing; while it isn't among the "best" out there for many, I have grown to respect Barenboim's approach.


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## Chi_townPhilly

An opportunity for Bruckner discussion?? Cool!


tahnak said:


> Would welcome good recordings' mention of Bruckner's C Minor Eighth:
> 1. Wilhelm Furtwangler - Berliner Philharmoniker (1949) - The Definitive - Vox


I have the Furtwängler/Vienna 1954 here, as well as the Böhm/Vienna, Solti/Chicago, & Tinter (Nowak original, pre-revision) Nat'l Orchestra-Ireland. I can listend to any of the first three and feel very rewarded. 
[And the only reason I feel less so about the Tinter is due to the version, not the performance.]
So maybe I'm not the only Bruckner fan-boy who feels that the Karajan/Vienna isn't necessarily the top-of-the-table recording. Most of the review-texts love that rendition.


tahnak said:


> I would like to know if anyone has heard Sergiu Celibidache with the Stuttgart. His readings are phenomenal for Bruckner.


We had a former contributor here, a working professional conductor in the western section of the Czech Republic, who said that Celibidache eschewed commerical recording because he himself recognized that his unique live experience wouldn't translate well to the recorded medium. (See here for the complete comment.) In this case, I considered his words in light of that old proverb that ends "he who knows, and knows that he knows- this man is wise, heed him."


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## tahnak

Will definitely listen to Barenboim at first opportunity. I rate his reading of the Fifth with the Berlin as the best among the modern recordings on Teldec.


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## tahnak

*Barenboim*



Rondo said:


> The 8th is probably my favorite Bruckner symphony. I have the Wand/Berliner and Barenboim/Berliner recordings. The latter is really worth hearing; while it isn't among the "best" out there for many, I have grown to respect Barenboim's approach.


Sure. Will definitely listen to Barenboim/Berlin at first opportunity. I rate Barenboim's reading of the Fifth as one of the best modern day recordings with the Berlin.


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## tahnak

*Apocalyptic*



Chi_town/Philly said:


> An opportunity for Bruckner discussion?? Cool!I have the Furtwängler/Vienna 1954 here, as well as the Böhm/Vienna, Solti/Chicago, & Tinter (Nowak original, pre-revision) Nat'l Orchestra-Ireland. I can listend to any of the first three and feel very rewarded.
> 
> Thanks. I have never heard the Solti version. Will look it up whenever possible.
> Chi, Which place in Southern Jersey do you come from? I spent five years in Glassboro and Pitman and did BBA with Minors in Music at Glassboro State College ( now Rowan State) in New Jersey between 1974 and 1979.
> Cheers!


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## Chi_townPhilly

tahnak said:


> Chi, Which place in Southern Jersey do you come from? I spent five years in Glassboro and Pitman and did BBA with Minors in Music at Glassboro State College (now Rowan University) in New Jersey between 1974 and 1979.


Hmm... a Business degree from Glassboro State College!- you and Ric Edelman have that in common, yes?

Glassboro has been mentioned at least once before on TalkClassical. [An allusion to the "Hollybush Summit" can be found here.]

As for me, I'm _originally_ from the Chicago, IL area (hence the first part of my screen-name), but moved to South Jersey a few years ago, to marry the woman I love.


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## Moldyoldie

I have several recordings of the _Bruckner Eighth_ as it is also a favorite.

I can't imagine a better, more cogent and moving introduction to the novice listener than the Boulez/Vienna recording on DG; it "spoke" to me in its entirety on first hearing unlike Karajan's, Jochum's and several others. The fact that the Boulez is on a single disc seals the deal.

To me, the differences between the Haas and Nowak editions are mostly academic, but Boulez uses the Haas edition. A very fine and economical single-disc recording of the Nowak edition is that of Maazel/Berlin on EMI's budget Seraphim label.


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## tahnak

*Have a good life*

As for me, I'm _originally_ from the Chicago, IL area (hence the first part of my screen-name), but moved to South Jersey a few years ago, to marry the woman I love.[/QUOTE]

God Bless You with a Good Life and a Companion You Cherish!


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## Guest

Chi_town/Philly said:


> As for me, I'm _originally_ from the Chicago, IL area (hence the first part of my screen-name), but moved to South Jersey a few years ago, to marry the woman I love.


Hi Chi, 'Screen name' does that mean you were a Hollywood actor? I thought it refered to 'China Town'


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## EarlyCuyler

The Wand/NDR live3 from the Lubeck Cathedral is astonishing. Aside from the horrendously out of tune trumpet at the end of course. Also, his live DVD right before he died of the NDR at the SChleswig-Holstein Music Festival is almost equally as good. Another great recording is the Furtwangler/Vienna from 1944. WOW. There is also the Cincinnati/Cobos recording, which has spectacular brass playing. As well as the Solti/CHicago recording from 1990 that was recorded in St.Petersburg.


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## handlebar

While I only own three Bruckner 8th's, I would say that the Karajan is the best I have. The Barenboim is good but just does not convey that spiritual aspect that I look and hope for with Herr Bruckner.
I own the Furtwangler as well and rate it as good but nothing in the heavenly realm.
I want to do more 8th investigating. Sounds like a good time to do so.

Jim


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## bongos

hi Handlebar , I have just spent time investigating Bruckner 8 recordings .I had a wonderful time .I went to Passionato online , SEARCH Bruckner symphonies .All the Cds line up for you to open and listen to all movements in good quality sound and clips that are not too short .I found it addictive and just wanted to hear more and more Bruckner 8 .Many recordings will sound similar but then one or several will really strike you as special .


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## Guest

handlebar said:


> While I only own three Bruckner 8th's, I would say that the Karajan is the best I have. The Barenboim is good but just does not convey that spiritual aspect that I look and hope for with Herr Bruckner.
> I own the Furtwangler as well and rate it as good but nothing in the heavenly realm.
> I want to do more 8th investigating. Sounds like a good time to do so.
> 
> Jim


I have the Karajan and the Furtwangler as well, and I would go for the Karajan

Just as an after thought have you d/l the 8th from the RCO Haitink @ http://kco.radio4.nl/?lang=enyou have to register first but there are 10 free d/l and @320kbps and they sound great when transferred to CD


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## bongos

hi Andante and all,I have now listened to more Bruckner 8, s than you could shake a stick at .Unfortunately I was too late to free download the Haitink /RCO Bruckner 8 , which I would have been happy with, I am sure.Anyway I have purchased Chailly /RCO from Itunes for NZ$17.99 .It is certainly amongst my favourite 5 that I listened too.There are many recordings by VPO that I have heard , but for MY taste , there is too much acoustic resonance giving a wall of sound effect which can ruin the sound stage and placement of instruments.The Chailly /Concertgebouw is much more to my taste .Other recordings amongst my favourites are Jochum /BPO and Jochum /Staatskapelle Dresden, and an amazing old live recording of Jascha Horenstein with BBC Symphony at the Royal Albert Hall in 1970.The acoustics and recording allow an outstanding sound stage , with violins and cellos in exactly the right place , something I really enjoy


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## Guest

*bongos * I can still d/l all the RCO CDs, have you tried recently, it may be because I registered early, but try again


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## bongos

thanks Andante , I had registered for the 3 free March downloads which I downloaded but it didnt give me access to the previous 10 so I re registered and that did the trick so I now have the Brucker 8 by Haitink /Concertgebouw for free (mp3) and Chailly/Concertgebouw (256kbps AAC)from itunes ($18).The Chailly sounds sweeter better resolution and brighter zip on the horns .It is a great recording


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## GustavMahler

Yeah, I bet the Horenstein was good. Wow, I thought I was the only one who was addicted to this symphony. I have the Jochum/BPO on my ipod, so I have really grown to love it. I'm not sure if I would pay for modern recordings at this point. I love the way the theme in the slow movement comes back at the end as a huge brass choir. Man, that is some composin'!


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## bongos

hi GustavMahler,although it is a tight race , my favourite Bruckner 8 is Jochum /Berlin Philharmonic .The acoustics dont smear the sound , it is a little forward more than back , good sound stage , lots of detail in the ebbs and flows, and the BRASS !!!!!! Yes it almost stops my breath .I dont have this record but if I want some I just go to Passionato and listen to their excellent 320 kbps previews


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## JTech82

handlebar said:


> While I only own three Bruckner 8th's, I would say that the Karajan is the best I have. The Barenboim is good but just does not convey that spiritual aspect that I look and hope for with Herr Bruckner.
> I own the Furtwangler as well and rate it as good but nothing in the heavenly realm.
> I want to do more 8th investigating. Sounds like a good time to do so.
> 
> Jim


I'm surprised you don't own Jochum's Bruckner accounts Jim. They're fantastic. Very spiritual and impassioned.

Gunter Wand also does a fine job with Bruckner.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Chi_town/Philly said:


> I have the Furtwängler/Vienna 1954 here, as well as the Böhm/Vienna, Solti/Chicago, & Tinter (Nowak original, pre-revision) Nat'l Orchestra-Ireland.


O.K.: I should have pointed out that Böhm/Vienna is Haas, and the other two are Nowak post-revision.

Now that _that_'s out of the way, can others tell me if their Bruckner 8s are Haas or Nowak? (I know that Karajan/Vienna is Haas, and seem to remember that Barenboim's is Haas, as well.)


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## joen_cph

As regards *Furtwängler*, there are really major differences between the´49 BPO
and `44- BPO-recordings. The last-mentioned, though far from an audiophile´s 
delight - rather the opposite - is more agitated, one of the most extrovertly 
drammatic Antons on record. Not in a _simply-fast _rendering, but with a flexible 
alternating between tempi, that is unusual, more like the - also fine - Jochum-BPO-
recording. Whereas the 1949 BPO is less eccentric by today´s performing standards.
The *Knappertsbusch-BPO-51 *is also eccentric, but it hasn´t got the same intensity,
sometimes being too laid-back, I think, even though that some praise it a lot. 
The *Inbal *recording of the _Original-Version _is interesting to have also, but the 
overall effect doesn´t come near the other versions; likewise he tends to hasten a bit too 
much through the work in a not very idiomatic/archietctural way. Inbal, however, has 
made other fine recordings, especially Symphonies nos.1-2-3. 
Should I select 3 recordings, it would be

*Furtwängler*´s frenetic BPO 44 (various budget labels)
*Haitinks* luxurious philips/Concertgebouw first digital recording;
*Wand*´s massive HamburgRSO dhm-recording 1987


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## muxamed

Nobody mentions Carlo Maria Giulini's great recording of Bruckner's Eighth .


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## GraemeG

Notwithstanding Haas' rather dubious political connections, for me, musically, he's the man. I'm with Simpson & Tovey on this one. I remember the first time I heard the Nowak in the concert hall, and the slow movement just didn't seem right. Only when I saw a couple of examples of the little cuts and truncations that Novak made/restored, did I understand.
I prefer my Bruckner Schalk & Lowe-free.
Graeme


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## joen_cph

Sorry, a correction: am talking above about the Furtwängler ´44 as a BPO-recording; it is a *WPO* one.


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## johnnyx

Celibidache! Yes, yes, he is my favorite Bruckner conductor. I prefer the ones with the Munich PO, but you can't go wrong with the Stuttgart either.


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## elgar's ghost

If it's OK to bring a late entry up to the starter gate I'd like to suggest Maazel's recording with the BPO. Doesn't seem to have as much form as established Classic winners such as Wand, Giulini, Karajan etc but well worth a punt especially when the going is firm to good.


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