# Tuning Classical Guitar



## DyPxLaMo

I have a question about tuning the classical guitar.

I am a beginner. Tuning by ear is important, and someday I will be able to. I have watched a couple of lessons on it. But at the present time I can’t get within 10 cents of being in tune when I tune by ear. So I have to use an electronic tuner.

I am using the Airyware tuner, a phone app. It reports the tone it hears to the tenth of a cent, but the reviews say that it is only accurate to the cent. And that is sufficient, as I cannot hear any difference smaller than three or four cents at best.

What it shows me is that when a string is plucked, assuming that it is in tune, the sound starts out1or 2 cents sharp, then, within a second or so, settles down to in-tune, which it holds for three or four seconds. Sometimes, not always, as it is fading, it falls flat by a couple of cents. This makes sense to me. At the moment of the pluck extra tension is generated as the string is displaced to the point at which it will be released.

My question is: am I right to be tuning the string so that it is the frequency that it settles down to that is in tune? Or should I be tuning it so that the first plucked sound is at the right frequency. After all, most of the time the next note is played before the previous string has settled down to the frequency that it will hold.

Mind you, I only know this by watching the tuner. My ear (brain, actually) cannot really tell that it is sharper at first than when it is being sustained. I can only tell that the initial sound at the pluck has a different quality than the sound that is sustained. I could not tell you which was higher or lower, but only that they are different.

I am assuming, of course, that this phenomenon is proper to the sound of the guitar, and not just an indication that my guitar is not as good as it should be. If truth be told, I like it. It is part of the complexity and richness of the sound. A guitar, after all, should not sound like a sine-wave generator.

May I please be instructed? 

Of course, it is always possible that I am being silly, that the tuner shows finer discrimination than any ear can hear. But I would have thought that making sure that what I hear is what I want my ears (brain) to be trained to recognize is worth while.


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## Nate Miller

ok, I'll try....Guitar is tuned E-A-D-G-B-E

note that between the G and B strings is a major 3rd and the other strings are all tuned a fourth apart.

Use harmonics to fine tune your strings. Start with your A string and tune that to a pitch standard. I use a tuning fork, but a piano or other instrument that is in tune will work fine.

Then tune your high E (highest in pitch) to your A string. you want to have any "waves" go away. Check the open high E string against the harmonic at the 7th fret of your A string. This interval will be a unison. Listen close because when 2 frequencies are close to one another, your ear can play tricks with you as to which frequency is higher or lower

Now that the A and high E strings are in tune, now tune the D string to the A string. The harmonic at the 5th fret of the A string will be a unison with the harmonic at the 7th fret of the D string.

Note that when tuning a 4th, when the two strings are really in tune you will hear what is called a "combination tone" that will be very high, but will be there. this combination tone should be stable, so if is wavering, fix it. If you have a well made instrument, you may notice your guitar is louder when you are in good tune.

Next tune the G string to the D string using the same process.

The B string is different. I like to tune the D at the 3rd fret of the B string to the open D string first. Once that octave is stable, check the B string against both the G string at the 4th fret and also the open 4th interval with the high E string. This is the interval you have to temper. That means you can't get everything, you have to rob from Peter to pay Paul. The interval with the open E string will not be perfect, but it must be very close and still have the octave with the D string solid. You may hear the B string get more volume when you get your B string in good tune. 

next, I tune the low E with the high E and the open A string. 

Finally, you should check the G string against the high E string at the 3rd fret and make sure that octave is stable, then do the same for the 3rd fret on the low E string and make sure the octave to the open G string is stable.

Never change the initial tuning of the A string because that is your pitch reference.

As you can see, you are tuning and tempering your instrument. There is a thing called the "Pythagorean comma" that means you need to balance the harmonics between all your strings to really be in tune. when you are, your guitar will wake up and you will get more volume from the harmonic overtones supporting each other. You can't do this with an electronic tuner. Just because each individual string showed up "Green" on some gadget doesn't mean you are really in tune. It means you are close, which is why rock and roll players dont know the bloody difference.

tuning up is a musical skill that is good to have. It helps your ears to always be in tune. Every morning when I first pick up my guitar, I carefully tune it as much as a mental warm up and a funny sort of "meditation" before I do anything else. Its like I'm tuning myself up as much as I am tuning my guitar


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Yes, make the waves go away! I would also try to dampen the strings that I'm not tuning.


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## haziz

Just buy a clip on tuner and stop agonizing over it. I have found them extremely accurate for my ukulele and my brief tinkering with guitar.

I am particularly fond of "Snark" brand tuners but all of the ones I have used (mainly on an Ukulele) have been fine.









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## bagpipers

I started with an electric tuner and then I moved onto a A440 tuning fork ,which I matched to 5th frett 1st string and 10th frett 2nd string and so on.


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## Enthalpy

The extra tension does raise the frequency BUT

For a very short duration
At the end of the decay, the frequency won't drop
So my bet is that the tuner app is inaccurate. Nothing surprising: it's badly difficult to develop.

I'm very pleased with my Korg TM60 for the bassoon. Works for bass notes too, reacts quickly, gives the tempo too, intuitive to use with a button per function, long battery life. But I can't tell if it fits the guitar player's needs.


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## Merl

As a crap guitarist I just use a Korg pitch hawk for my acoustics, inbuilt tuners for my electro-acoustics and the tuner in my Blackstar amp for my electrics. However, for classical guitar tuning, played by decent guitarists, I suspect that meticulous tuning is needed to sound spot on. After 12 years of playing I can almost tune by ear. I still play like I'm wearing boxing gloves though. 😄


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## Viajero

I think Nate has given you excellent advice. The only thing I would add is to remove your guitar from its case before you tune it and allow it to adjust to the room's temperature and relative humidity for ten minutes. This will minimize frequent retuning throughout your practice session as your guitar adjusts to the room. Also, tuning to harmonics is essential for micro-tuning and should be the final litmus test for tuning. Also, remember that when strings are old/over-stretched, they will not hold tune very long. I play D'Addario EJ46 HT and change every 22-25 hours playtime. Good luck!
Viajero


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## NoCoPilot

DyPxLaMo said:


> My question is: am I right to be tuning the string so that it is the frequency that it settles down to that is in tune? Or should I be tuning it so that the first plucked sound is at the right frequency. After all, most of the time the next note is played before the previous string has settled down to the frequency that it will hold.


By that logic, you should be tuning to the initial pitch. When you hit the next note, it too will be sharp, and in order to not sound out of tune, both need to be in the same scale.


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## bagpipers

Viajero said:


> I think Nate has given you excellent advice. The only thing I would add is to remove your guitar from its case before you tune it and allow it to adjust to the room's temperature and relative humidity for ten minutes. This will minimize frequent retuning throughout your practice session as your guitar adjusts to the room. Also, tuning to harmonics is essential for micro-tuning and should be the final litmus test for tuning. Also, remember that when strings are old/over-stretched, they will not hold tune very long. I play D'Addario EJ46 HT and change every 22-25 hours playtime. Good luck!
> Viajero


Out curiosity ,why would one tune a guitar in it's case in the first case in the first place??? One would always have their guitar in playing position on there body while tunning,wouldn't they??

I was a classical guitarist until I turned exclusively to composition.I would play the guitar first and then only if it sounded out of tune would I then tune it,so it would never be in it's case anyway.


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## Viajero

bagpipers said:


> Out curiosity ,why would one tune a guitar in it's case in the first case in the first place??? One would always have their guitar in playing position on there body while tunning,wouldn't they??
> 
> I was a classical guitarist until I turned exclusively to composition.I would play the guitar first and then only if it sounded out of tune would I then tune it,so it would never be in it's case anyway.


Confusion? Sorry. The point was to remove the guitar from its case(10 minutes before playing) to adjust to the ambient temperature/humidity of the room(resting time) since if you tune it IMMEDIATELY after removing it from the case, it will undergo frequent changes in pitch as it adjusts to the room's temperature/humidity while playing. It's simply a time saver. This is common practice among students and professional Classical/Jazz guitarists. I hope that's clear.
Viajero


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## Nate Miller

Viajero said:


> Confusion? Sorry. The point was to remove the guitar from its case(10 minutes before playing) to adjust to the ambient temperature/humidity of the room(resting time) since if you tune it IMMEDIATELY after removing it from the case, it will undergo frequent changes in pitch as it adjusts to the room's temperature/humidity while playing. It's simply a time saver. This is common practice among students and professional Classical/Jazz guitarists. I hope that's clear.
> Viajero



this is really important if you transported your guitar from your house to where you are playing, especially in winter or summer where the difference in temps from the outside to the inside can be more dramatic. 

If your guitar was in a case or on the stand in the same room as yourself when you pick it up to practice, it might not be that big an issue


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## Viajero

Yes, Nate,
And, in the Winter, when transporting your guitar from the cold to the warmth inside your house/gig, be especially careful not to open the case until it has had at least a half hour to adjust to the ambient temperature of the room. Many prized instruments have had their tops cracked when the case is suddenly opened. . . especially spruce since it is a denser wood than cedar. Another good reason for working musicians to leave the Northern climes.
Viajero


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## bagpipers

Why is everyone fretting over so much (pun intended) on tuning a guitar it is not really that hard,I was a classical guitarist until I turned solely composition.
The guitar is a Moorish instrument that came to Europe during the Andalsusian occupation.Even when most precisly tuned it won't ever sound like an even temperment like a piano or bowed instrument.

So get over it!!


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## Viajero

Hi, B,
As a composer, have you ever played a piano out of tune? Did you find that it was a problem? The Classical Guitar is less stable than most instruments however, it can be tuned very closely to pitch by a seasoned musician using standard tuning and harmonics. I don't think we need to discuss why playing in tune is important for musicians-- solo or ensemble, however, a quality Classical guitar with quality tuners gets it very close. As a performer, I tune frequently during a performance since fluctuating levels of humidity and temperature do affect the expansion and contraction of strings resulting in sharp/flat notes. And, this is also why using fresh strings that have been "played in" before a performance is so important since as the strings age with playing time, they become less stable and frequently lose intonation. I hope this answers your question.
Viajero


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## bagpipers

Viajero said:


> Hi, B,
> As a composer, have you ever played a piano out of tune? Did you find that it was a problem? The Classical Guitar is less stable than most instruments however, it can be tuned very closely to pitch by a seasoned musician using standard tuning and harmonics. I don't think we need to discuss why playing in tune is important for musicians-- solo or ensemble, however, a quality Classical guitar with quality tuners gets it very close. As a performer, I tune frequently during a performance since fluctuating levels of humidity and temperature do affect the expansion and contraction of strings resulting in sharp/flat notes. And, this is also why using fresh strings that have been "played in" before a performance is so important since as the strings age with playing time, they become less stable and frequently lose intonation. I hope this answers your question.
> Viajero


Was more addressing the issue of the guitar sounding out of tune even when it's in tune,a common complaint among guitarist.Not the issue of guitars going out of tune faster than say a cello would.

Your right,string change is important,brand new strings are wild especially the high E but of coarse older strings dull in tone.
To be honest I never had a concert career in a serious way and my longest concert was 12 minutes,I never delt with the issue of tuning in a 45 min long concert.
I was talking about the guitar being out of tune in general.


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## Nate Miller

Like Bagpipers said, it's not a matter of going out of tune, although the way you put your strings on has EVERYTHING to do with that. My concert guitar has a 12 hole bridge so that the string is routed through and back and the tension is never directly on the knot in the string. It makes the instrument's tuning more stable. So luthiers make 12 and even 18 hole bridges for concert instruments.

for me, though, there is a difference between just being "in tune" and being really in tune. That's where the expression "close enough for rock and roll" came from: guitarist's half assed tuning of their instruments.

Also, tuning by ear is actually a musical skill. If you are going to play guitar, you need to know how to tune the thing. So for me, no serious musician should need an electronic tuner. There are some performance situations where having your tuner in your pedal board can be handy, so I'm not going to go as far as to say if you use an electronic tuner you can't play, but....that's EXACTLY what I'll be thinking if you are on the bandstand with me using one of those things


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## Viajero

". So for me, no serious musician should need an electronic tuner. There are some performance situations where having your tuner in your pedal board can be handy, so I'm not going to go as far as to say if you use an electronic tuner you can't play, but....that's EXACTLY what I'll be thinking if you are on the bandstand with me using one of those things." 
Nate

Hi, Nate,
There are a couple of problems with the above approach in re: tuning that have plagued Classical guitarists since the first finger plucked a gut string. Whether you use a tuning fork or electronic tuner, if you play with an ensemble everyone must be in the same vehicle otherwise, your performance would be plagued with intonation problems . . . especially playing with other stringed instruments. If you play with a pianist, you can always tune to the piano so that rarely causes an issue. As far as using an electronic tuner "on the bandstand," it ,generally, is not seen in a solo Classical guitar performance since once the guitar is tuned backstage with a fork/electronic tuner/piano, you can use relative tuning if the strings are losing pitch during the performance. However, Jazzers, Rockers, Pop guitarists, today, usually use them as their soup du jour and are frequently seen in live performances. However, back to electronic tuners . . . when I first started playing Classical guitar, I used a simple percussive tuning fork. It worked well for over 28 years. But, a few years ago I bought a D'Addario electronic tuner and the net gain was a very quick tune time with micro-precision although my final tuning is still done using harmonics by ear. Admitedly, I'm a purist when it comes to sound but the electronic tuner helps me get to my material quicker and that translates to more practice time. I hope that makes sense.
Viajero


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## bagpipers

What do those who use tuning forks feel is the best A440 ?
fret 5 string 1,good posibility 
fret 10 string 2 ,good possibility
fret 14 string 3 ,not very good at all.


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## Viajero

Hi, B,
In the past, I never used anything other than a A440 fork. I start with the open fifth string "A" then harmonic "A" 12th fret. I , then, use relative tuning for the other five strings. Next, I check the 1st string open "E" against the third-string fretted "E"(9th pos), and then, the 2nd string open "B" against 4th string(9th pos) fretted "B." I then use harmonics at 12th fret "A" and check at 3rd string(2nd pos). The harmonics are more reliable to use in the basses for tuning since at times your ear might be fooled when tuning the open strings which can be slightly/micro "flat." Then, I play a simple "E" chord-1st position/A chord barre 5th position and finally 12th fret harmonics(6th strings) which usually will find any micro intonalities. If I'm really concerned about "absolutes," I play some 6 string scales at the 5th position. Then, I'm usually fine for about 10-15 minutes when I recheck tuning. I hope this is clear.
Viajero


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## bagpipers

Viajero said:


> Hi, B,
> In the past, I never used anything other than a A440 fork. I start with the open fifth string "A" then harmonic "A" 12th fret. I , then, use relative tuning for the other five strings. Next, I check the 1st string open "E" against the third-string fretted "E"(9th pos), and then, the 2nd string open "B" against 4th string(9th pos) fretted "B." I then use harmonics at 12th fret "A" and check at 3rd string(2nd pos). The harmonics are more reliable to use in the basses for tuning since at times your ear might be fooled when tuning the open strings which can be slightly/micro "flat." Then, I play a simple "E" chord-1st position/A chord barre 5th position and finally 12th fret harmonics(6th strings) which usually will find any micro intonalities. If I'm really concerned about "absolutes," I play some 6 string scales at the 5th position. Then, I'm usually fine for about 10-15 minutes when I recheck tuning. I hope this is clear.
> Viajero


THat is a very good way to do it.I always used the string 1 fret 5 first then string 2 fret 10 next ,then work up from there.


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## burnabyguitar

Just note that for tuning guitar, especially for classic guitar with synthetic strings, even though using a electric tuner, don't just rely on open strings. sometimes open string is in turn but if you measure fret 12 and fret 7 you may find slight difference. So make a balance. If you measure your fret 12 tune better use harmonics since the action on fret 12 is high and if you play solid note your finger's pressure on the string slightly changes the length of the string and then the tune. 
Also room temperature, humid... changes the tunes (that's why you see all classical guitarists turn their guitars after they sit on the stage, and even between pieces). Piano in theory has the same problem but usually you cannot hire a 24X7 human tuner


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## Nate Miller

Viajero said:


> ". So for me, no serious musician should need an electronic tuner. There are some performance situations where having your tuner in your pedal board can be handy, so I'm not going to go as far as to say if you use an electronic tuner you can't play, but....that's EXACTLY what I'll be thinking if you are on the bandstand with me using one of those things."
> Nate
> 
> Hi, Nate,
> There are a couple of problems with the above approach in re: tuning that have plagued Classical guitarists since the first finger plucked a gut string. Whether you use a tuning fork or electronic tuner, if you play with an ensemble everyone must be in the same vehicle otherwise, your performance would be plagued with intonation problems . . . especially playing with other stringed instruments. If you play with a pianist, you can always tune to the piano so that rarely causes an issue. As far as using an electronic tuner "on the bandstand," it ,generally, is not seen in a solo Classical guitar performance since once the guitar is tuned backstage with a fork/electronic tuner/piano, you can use relative tuning if the strings are losing pitch during the performance. However, Jazzers, Rockers, Pop guitarists, today, usually use them as their soup du jour and are frequently seen in live performances. However, back to electronic tuners . . . when I first started playing Classical guitar, I used a simple percussive tuning fork. It worked well for over 28 years. But, a few years ago I bought a D'Addario electronic tuner and the net gain was a very quick tune time with micro-precision although my final tuning is still done using harmonics by ear. Admitedly, I'm a purist when it comes to sound but the electronic tuner helps me get to my material quicker and that translates to more practice time. I hope that makes sense.
> Viajero


I think I am just getting grouchy as I get older. I play alot of jam sessions with local musicians and the use of electronic tuners is so ubiquitous that I really believe alot of guitarists dont know how to tune by ear anymore. I actually had someone ask me a couple weeks ago "how can you tell when its in tune without the green light?"

I just said "this is a fretless bass, pal, so you better hope I can tell"

so I may have gotten a little too far up on my high horse there, but it drives me nuts to see grown men who should certainly know better not be able to tune thier own axe without some gizmo.


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## Viajero

Nate Miller said:


> I think I am just getting grouchy as I get older. I play alot of jam sessions with local musicians and the use of electronic tuners is so ubiquitous that I really believe alot of guitarists dont know how to tune by ear anymore. I actually had someone ask me a couple weeks ago "how can you tell when its in tune without the green light?"
> 
> I just said "this is a fretless bass, pal, so you better hope I can tell"
> 
> so I may have gotten a little too far up on my high horse there, but it drives me nuts to see grown men who should certainly know better not be able to tune thier own axe without some gizmo.


Hi, Nate,
Yesterday, I did a little experiment with my D'Addario Micro Tuner. I was thinking about this discussion and I tuned the guitar with the tuner and then did my normal relative/harmonic checks in less than a minute. There were only two strings that needed micro-adjustments. So, the question, for me, becomes: how much time do I want to spend tuning versus playing? For the record, I used a tuning fork for 27 years with no problems but, for me, the micro-tuner is well worth the investment.
Viajero


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