# Donna Dralle's Naked Composer Series



## andantefavori (Sep 24, 2013)

Hi guys,

sorry if this subject has been discussed before or is posted in the wrong part of the forum. I'm still a newbie :tiphat:

And I am appalled at this "art"! http://www.graphixnow.com/artist/naked_composers.html Why is she treating these great men (and a woman) in this way? What kind of an important message is she trying to send to the world? To me this is like taking fan fictions to a whole new level, and not in a good way. There is nothing creative going on in here, only the shock value of "showing it ALL", getting all papparazzi on these people who have no way of defending themselves.

I know art should be free. I know there should be no taboos in our society anymore. But for once, at least for history's sake, could we just stop to think about good taste as well?

What do you think? And who is she, really? She's not on Wikipedia but in her own introduction page she poses as some "great artist".

If I'm too old-fashioned with these kinds of thoughts and just failing to see what she's after with this, please point that out. Otherwise I'm just going to regard this as some non-artistic junk.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Do you think it's significant enough to put it to discussion? It's not renowed artist and these are very ordinary drawings, apart from their controversial subjects.

Now, on the other hand, if she'd do Clara Schumann...


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I don't know anything about the artist--thanks for the link. It says on her webpage that her career has had a couple of serious setbacks: a fire which destroyed her home, studio, and much of her work; and a "life altering injury" that she suffered (I think as a result of the fire). I can understand such a traumatic event concentrating attention on the body--though of course a portraitist and sculptor hardly needs an excuse for such an interest. 

Nude portraits and sculpture have been around for a long time, and she doesn't seem to be representing living subjects (aside from herself). I don't have an objection to her work in principle, though I don't really have a strong opinion about it.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

andantefavori said:


> But for once, at least for history's sake, could we just stop to think about good taste as well?


to be fair, the portraits are "tastefully" done. I don't see anything pornographic about them. They look like art school studies (ie, not particularly creative). Judging by her self portraits, she seems to specialise in nudes. In that context these composer nudes make perfect sense. She's found a schtick that seems to have not been done before. Sometimes there is nothing particularly profound about art beside novelty. But she could also argue that to see an artist depicted as any man is to debunk his/her mythical status. Or something.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I agree with deggial. If there is anything to be gleaned from this experiment, it is to humanize the myth. I don't think anyone is in need of defending themselves. I couldn't help noticing that they were just heads stuck on conjectured bodies though. Somewhere I have seen a photo of Bartok in a swim suit, and he was a bit more -- chiseled may be the word, or wiry muscular than she is depicting. Having said that, they are confidently rendered drawings and that is all that matters to me in the end.


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## JohannesBrahms (Apr 22, 2013)

> I know there should be no taboos in our society anymore.


Hold it right there. I don't mean to be insulting, but on the other hand, I refuse to be "politically correct". That statement is wrong. There are certain things that should be taboos, because, quite frankly, they are simply wrong. People used to know that, and it is sad the way society is going.

About this "art". This is a disgrace to these composers who really were true artists. Art is not meant to be anything that anybody thinks is beautiful. Otherwise, everything becomes art, and the point of art is completely lost.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

She seems to have forgotten that Mahler was a Jew...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

andantefavori said:


> I know art should be free. I know there should be no taboos in our society anymore.


Uh...all societies are based on taboos and myths. Ours perhaps more than most. Don't make me get specific because I really want to live a few years more! 

I believe it was a US Supreme Court justice who said, "Somebody should write two books. The first, things everybody says but nobody believes. The second, things everybody believes but nobody says."


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm not even going to that site. I'm too afraid to see it....


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

What a duuuuummmmbbbbbb site.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

I think they're quite cool. It's only offensive if you think nudity is inherently sexual or degrading. If you do I suggest you get over it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I find the style rather conservative.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Thanks for sharing, I've always wondered what Hildegard and Leonin look like.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Wow, Scott Joplin was the sexiest male composer ever.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

andantefavori said:


> Why is she treating these great men (and a woman) in this way? What kind of an important message is she trying to send to the world? To me this is like taking fan fictions to a whole new level, and not in a good way. There is nothing creative going on in here, only the shock value of "showing it ALL", getting all papparazzi on these people who have no way of defending themselves.


She's showing that these people are human, not the godlike figures that we build them up as.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

Garlic said:


> She's showing that these people are human, not the godlike figures that we build them up as.


Yes, that's how I interpreted her sketches, too.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

brianvds said:


> She seems to have forgotten that Mahler was a Jew...


Hah! Gosh, you're observant, Brianvds! I just looked at the heads and hands...


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

JohannesBrahms said:


> Hold it right there. I don't mean to be insulting, but on the other hand, I refuse to be "politically correct". That statement is wrong. There are certain things that should be taboos, because, quite frankly, they are simply wrong. People used to know that, and it is sad the way society is going.
> 
> About this "art". This is a disgrace to these composers who really were true artists. Art is not meant to be anything that anybody thinks is beautiful. Otherwise, everything becomes art, and the point of art is completely lost.


Beauty doesn't have a narrow definition, but that doesn't have to mean everything is art either. That seems a straw man argument.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I wouldn't want to fight with that Beethoven. He looks like a neanderthal.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Uh...all societies are based on taboos and myths. Ours perhaps more than most.


we've got taboos all right - just different ones than before.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I like this series. There's nothing leering or mean-spirited about them, nor are they idealised in a pornographic manner, rather they come across as a celebration of the natural beauty of the human body in all its shapes and sizes.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> I like this series. There's nothing leering or mean-spirited about them, nor are they idealised in a pornographic manner, rather they come across as a celebration of the natural beauty of the human body in all its shapes and sizes.


Yup. Apart from music, my other hobby is art, so I am largely inured to the sight of nude bodies. Ho hum, etc. These are drawn very competently and seem rooted in the tradition of classical art. Mind you, Abbess von Bingen would have been thoroughly scandalized, I think.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Wow! Even composers (who devoted their life for the sake of music) have more muscules than me! And i even go to the gym!!!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Wow XD I love Stravinsky's pose, he just seems so open and proud, like he's thinking "How do you like my Petrushka?~". OMG He should be winking too XD


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

dionisio said:


> Wow! Even composers (who devoted their life for the sake of music) have more muscules than me! And i even go to the gym!!!


I noticed that too. They may be mere humans, but I'd think twice before criticizing their work - they'd kick my behind!



BurningDesire said:


> Wow XD I love Stravinsky's pose, he just seems so open and proud, like he's thinking "How do you like my Petrushka?~". OMG He should be winking too XD


While showing off his Firebird...


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Manly men don't shave their chest! May this be a lesson! heheheh


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

These drawings are just trying some cheap sensationalism, they're not even fun or interesting. They are just "naked composers" - what composers? The famous ones, of course. And because they are famous, they need to be shown naked or something? Some lowly idea along those lines has been attempted here. Trying to use the fame of these composers for your own publicity.

I don't think it should have been posted in this forum.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> I like this series.


Should we be surprised? After all you have a photo of Frank Zappa as your avatar.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow... after browsing through the thread before clicking on the link, I found it rather anticlimactic.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

shangoyal said:


> Should we be surprised? After all you have a photo of Frank Zappa as your avatar.


What does that even mean?


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

This thread is so weird. I just can't even click the link, I'm too afraid to be mentally scarred for life....

Wait, so why must we take the famous composers and attempt to show what they _obviously_ did not want to be shown? How would you feel if you knew that after you died people would draw nude pictures of you and pit them on the web? Seriously! If they wanted to be shown naked, well then, I suppose they could have found a way.

Composers wanted to share their music, not their naked bodies, with the world.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Should we be surprised? After all you have a photo of Frank Zappa as your avatar.


what's wrong with Zappa?


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

deggial said:


> what's wrong with Zappa?


Nothing is wrong with him. He's just:

1. Goofy, and apparently half retarded.
2. Very intent on irony and always refuses to be serious.
3. Intelligent, yes, quite intelligent, but still goofy.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

deggial said:


> what's wrong with Zappa?


Indeed--why wasn't _he_ included in the series?



__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/270145677618758065/


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Nothing is wrong with him. He's just:
> 
> 1. Goofy, and apparently half retarded.
> 2. Very intent on irony and always refuses to be serious.
> 3. Intelligent, yes, quite intelligent, but still goofy.


sounds surprisingly like me  you forgot modest.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

shangoyal said:


> Nothing is wrong with him. He's just:
> 
> 1. Goofy, and apparently half retarded.
> 2. Very intent on irony and always refuses to be serious.
> 3. Intelligent, yes, quite intelligent, but still goofy.


Even if he was "half retarded," what does that have to do with me appreciating a series of tasteful nudes?


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> Even if he was "half retarded," what does that have to do with me appreciating a series of tasteful nudes?


Just the way Frank Zappa puts lyrics about prunes and cabbages in a rock song!

I think some of us might need a Zappa song at this point. I read somewhere once that "He didn't give a ****, but he did."


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

mstar said:


> How would you feel if you knew that after you died people would draw nude pictures of you and pit them on the web? Seriously! If they wanted to be shown naked, well then, I suppose they could have found a way.


I'm not sure I would particularly care. But it has become a somewhat relevant topic. Recently, some artists around here have portrayed President Jacob Zuma in the nude, and it caused much controversy and brouhaha. The man, or at least his supporters, are a pretty serious bunch with little in the way of a sense of humour. In another court case, a school principal took some of the pupils at his high school to court for photoshopping his face and that of the vice principal into a very graphic gay porn picture and posting it all over the school. He won the case; the kids were actually criminally convicted. At the same time, perhaps he ended up losing even more face this way than would have been the case had he simply laughed it off.

The Canadian prime minister fared much better when he was recently portrayed in the nude, on a couch, with a cat. His spokesperson released a statement to the effect that the prime minister was absolutely outraged at the painting, because surely everyone knows he's in fact a dog person...

Well, we have a saying here: the highest trees catch the most wind. You want to be a famous composer? You will inevitably be used and abused for all kinds of things. Just look at my utterly tasteless avatar pic.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

brianvds said:


> I'm not sure I would particularly care. But it has become a somewhat relevant topic. Recently, some artists around here have portrayed President Jacob Zuma in the nude, and it caused much controversy and brouhaha. The man, or at least his supporters, are a pretty serious bunch with little in the way of a sense of humour. In another court case, a school principal took some of the pupils at his high school to court for photoshopping his face and that of the vice principal into a very graphic gay porn picture and posting it all over the school. He won the case; the kids were actually criminally convicted. At the same time, perhaps he ended up losing even more face this way than would have been the case had he simply laughed it off.
> 
> The Canadian prime minister fared much better when he was recently portrayed in the nude, on a couch, with a cat. His spokesperson released a statement to the effect that the prime minister was absolutely outraged at the painting, because surely everyone knows he's in fact a dog person...
> 
> Well, we have a saying here: the highest trees catch the most wind. You want to be a famous composer? You will inevitably be used and abused for all kinds of things. Just look at my utterly tasteless avatar pic.


Schwarzenegger. Woah, I actually spelled that correctly, first-time!

Yes, poor composers.... I just hope Chopin's not on that list, or Mendelssohn, or Tchaikovsky.... Ew, that's all so nasty anyways....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Mingus claimed he had a much bigger...


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Mingus claimed he had a much bigger...


Imagination. A much, much bigger imagination than Donna Dralle claims he had.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Mingus claimed he had a much bigger...


You know what they say, those who feel the need to brag are probably compensating for something...

Actually, I don't know if they say that. I say that though.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Hmm, I actually looked at her site, all except the composers.... I see nothing special. The sketches are just plain. I find something of a lack of passion, maybe? Perhaps what she's drawing is altogether pretty odd in and of itself....


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

violadude said:


> You know what they say, those who feel the need to brag are probably compensating for something...
> 
> Actually, I don't know if they say that. I say that though.


The only thing at which I am really better than everyone else is modesty. :angel:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

mstar said:


> Imagination. A much, much bigger imagination than Donna Dralle claims he had.


No need for Mingus to lay claims on his imagination. We have his music and autobiography. The latter being the most outrageous form of fiction.

I must say naked composers series is a strange project. The Coltrane portrait looks nothing like Trane, and I prefer the wigs with um... their wigs! But losing the tights must be liberating, eh?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Let's face it this sort of art is usually done by second rate artists trying to make a name for themselves by grabbing the attention with something they think is sensational. All they prove is the smallness of their minds and their paucity of talent.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

starthrower said:


> No need for Mingus to lay claims on his imagination. We have his music and autobiography. The latter being the most outrageous form of fiction.
> 
> I must say naked composers series is a strange project. The Coltrane portrait looks nothing like Trane, and I prefer the wigs with um... their wigs! But losing the tights must be liberating, eh?


Can you tell who's who?


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

There are actual photographs out there of Stravinsky and Benjamin Britten being naked. While the latter at least had the sense to censor his, er, wedding tackle with his thigh, the former...not so much.

That's okay, I wasn't planning to have dinner today anyway


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

Donna has contributed a number of pieces to The Unheard Beethoven (all clothed, never fear). She clearly loves the music and the composers. She's as mentioned above both presenting them to us in a different light and humanizing them.

Some examples:

http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess324
http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=opus108-7
http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=opus108-9
http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess244-2
http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess90
http://unheardbeethoven.org/search.php?Identifier=hess149


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## Abraham Lincoln (Oct 3, 2015)

You know...after seeing this thread, I've been wondering what sorts of composer portraits would be deemed distasteful by the majority. There has to be a better way to show their humanity, right?


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