# Schubert D960



## Guest (Dec 8, 2020)

What do you think of this final Piano Sonata from Schubert, played here by Stephen Kovacevich:






I saw Pollini playing it in the Wiener Konzerthaus nearly a decade ago and he was too heavy handed. This work grows on you and it asks you to be patient with Schubert as he unfolds his ideas, over an expansive canvas.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

I absolutely adore this work , because it was the first classical work that moved me so much I got tears in my eyes.

I like Alfred Brendel's interpretation the best , along with Artur Schnabel's ...

Kovachevich is a just a little too forceful and rough on the keys , I mean not subtle enough to my liking...


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Brendel's is a fine recording in many ways BUT his extraordinary omission of the first movement repeat, with the crucial bridging passage which Brendel happens not to like, puts it out of contention for me. I like Maria Joao Pires' earlier recording on Erato (I'm not one for an over-personalised approach to performing, but one can go too far the other way and her later DG version is a tad _too_ penny-plain for my liking).


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Kovacevich is really penetrating in this work. A simply superb performance on EMI.

Brendel gives a great interpretation at his farewell concert but like his teacher Schnabel he omits the repeat. 

I also have Pollini who is splendid but perhaps just lacks the last air of mystery.

Other great performances on my shelf from Horowitz - surprising but this is a stunner
Annie Fischer, Curzon (but no repeat), Fleisher, Grafmann, all with something to say.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Any fans of Lupu?


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> Any fans of Lupu?


I have his recording too. Wonderful! And Kempff of course, the master Schubertian


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> Any fans of Lupu?


Yes, he gives the piece a very ethereal air. And I very much enjoy his Brahms and Schumann for the same reasons. But he does tend to focus on sonic beauty and perfection of tone and touch to such an extent that the narrative can be lost. But in works like Schubert's Impromptus? He's the bomb.


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## Gargamel (Jan 5, 2020)

Brendel said that he considers the transitional bars (M. 117a-125a) are unconnected to the rest of the movement. I wonder how can such a grand pianist totally miss the point of the exposition itself and how satisfying its repetition is! (Not that they are unconnected by any means; They melodize the verticals heard in M. 44-47, and lead up to the same rhythmical pattern as heard in M. 48.) He must really hate the piece!


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Gargamel said:


> Brendel said that he considers the transitional bars (M. 117a-125a) are unconnected to the rest of the movement. I wonder how can such a grand pianist totally miss the point of the exposition itself and how satisfying its repetition is! (Not that they are unconnected by any means; They melodize the verticals heard in M. 44-47, and lead up to the same rhythmical pattern as heard in M. 48.) He must really hate the piece!


I don't think he hates the piece but I cannot fathom his conclusion.

Just to say another recording I have is of course by Richter. The first movement is very moderato like a Chinese water torture in its agony. Something to hear once.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Yes, he gives the piece a very ethereal air. And I very much enjoy his Brahms and Schumann for the same reasons. But he does tend to focus on sonic beauty and perfection of tone and touch to such an extent that the narrative can be lost. But in works like Schubert's Impromptus? He's the bomb.


Great comments!! There's so much to these works isn't there. I was talking to my Physiotherapist last week; her husband loves the Beethoven piano sonatas and we were discussing these. This woman is in her late 20s/early 30s and she asked me which one I liked. I told her Opus 109 but that "the great thing about these works is that they grow with you; they are life companions; you change and they change with you".

Even though I made the comment I'm still not sure exactly how to put meat on the bones of what I meant!!


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2020)

Handelian said:


> I don't think he hates the piece but I cannot fathom his conclusion.
> 
> Just to say another recording I have is of course by Richter. The first movement is very moderato like a Chinese water torture in its agony. Something to hear once.


I've had the same experience with Richter in his later years with the final few Beethoven Piano Sonatas. He could be idiosyncratic. But Stephen Kovacevich I find consistently intelligent and thoughtful. The narrative always unfolds. 11 years ago I went to a recital of his in Sydney when he played the "Diabelli Variations". This particular work has never been a favourite of mine but watching and hearing Kovacevich was both compelling and moving. You couldn't call it a 'performance' per se; he was deeply engrossed and could have been the only person in the room, except that he wasn't. But this final point was what won me over. I'm guessing many people who contribute here really know what I'm driving at with this comment.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> Any fans of Lupu?


Yes, his interpretation is good too!


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Gargamel said:


> Brendel said that he considers the transitional bars (M. 117a-125a) are unconnected to the rest of the movement. I wonder how can such a grand pianist totally miss the point of the exposition itself and how satisfying its repetition is! (Not that they are unconnected by any means; They melodize the verticals heard in M. 44-47, and lead up to the same rhythmical pattern as heard in M. 48.) He must really hate the piece!


He most definitely does not ! He gave an interview about it actually , the influence of Schnabel is there too.


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Handelian said:


> I have his recording too. Wonderful! And Kempff of course, the master Schubertian


I have the Kempff too , but I see Kempff more as a master Beethovenian myself


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

HerbertNorman said:


> I have the Kempff too , but I see Kempff more as a master Beethovenian myself


Couldn't he do both?


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Handelian said:


> Couldn't he do both?


He certainly could...

I am going to flee this endless discussion now. No hard feelings , a question of taste or maybe technical insight in playing the piano?
I am no pianist , just a lover of the piece and the Schubert repertoire in general.

Peace


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I’ve heard Kempff’s Schubert described as “too sweet” before, which surprises me. For me his crystal-clear, perfectly natural approach is about the opposite of sweet and sentimental. I’m not normally a fan of performers who play things straightforwardly, but I always enjoy his Beethoven as well in addition to his Goldberg Variations. He has a colorful way of playing but also one that is very balanced and organic.

I have a long list of favorites for this sonata, all of which have something to say: Uchida, Kempff, Richter (eccentric as it is), Rubinstein, de Laroccha, Lupu, Kovacevich.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I've heard Kempff's Schubert described as "too sweet" before, which surprises me. For me his crystal-clear, perfectly natural approach is about the opposite of sweet and sentimental. I'm not normally a fan of performers who play things straightforwardly, but I always enjoy his Beethoven as well in addition to his Goldberg Variations. He has a colorful way of playing but also one that is very balanced and organic.
> 
> I have a long list of favorites for this sonata, all of which have something to say: Uchida, Kempff, Richter (eccentric as it is), Rubinstein, de Laroccha, Lupu, Kovacevich.


Alicia de Laroccha is a pianist you seldom hear about these days. I wonder about the reasons for that.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Christabel said:


> Alicia de Laroccha is a pianist you seldom hear about these days. I wonder about the reasons for that.


She passed away in 2009. I did hear her once in concert but was very disappointed as I had gone to hear Ravel and ended up hearing Albeinez as she changed the program


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2020)

Handelian said:


> She passed away in 2009. I did hear her once in concert but was very disappointed as I had gone to hear Ravel and ended up hearing Albeinez as she changed the program


One of her finest performances was "Goyescas" by Granados. She seemed at home with the Spanish repertoire, for obvious reasons.






I don't recall ever hearing of version of Schubert D960 from her.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Animal the Drummer said:


> Brendel's is a fine recording in many ways BUT his extraordinary omission of the first movement repeat, with the crucial bridging passage which Brendel happens not to like, puts it out of contention for me. I like Maria Joao Pires' earlier recording on Erato (I'm not one for an over-personalised approach to performing, but one can go too far the other way and her later DG version is a tad _too_ penny-plain for my liking).


I'll add Richard Goode to the faves mentioned so far. Unlike many, I'll accept any good version, first movement repeat or not. It's easy enough to fire up Audacity and edit the offending repeat out...


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2020)

KenOC said:


> I'll add Richard Goode to the faves mentioned so far. Unlike many, I'll accept any good version, first movement repeat or not. It's easy enough to fire up Audacity and edit the offending repeat out...


Goode is an intelligent and thoughtful musician. Quite a lot of his work has found its way onto U-Tube.


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

Great work! Annie Fisher's my favourite interpreter of Schubert's D960.

Regards,

Vincula


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

HerbertNorman said:


> I have the Kempff too , but I see Kempff more as a master Beethovenian myself


Kempff is better in the first recording than in the DG. The first recording is great fun!

IMO 960's "poetry" is quite far removed from anything I can think of in Beethoven, at least in the first two movements. 960 is more like exploratory stumbling searching than a resolute drive forward to the end. And so I can see where you're coming from, though I should say that I don't know Beethoven's music very well.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Kempff is better in the first recording than in the DG. The first recording is great fun!
> 
> IMO 960's "poetry" is quite far removed from anything I can think of in Beethoven, at least in the first two movements. 960 is more like exploratory stumbling searching than a resolute drive forward to the end. And so I can see where you're coming from, though I should say that I don't know Beethoven's music very well.


I feel as though D958, 959 and 960 are all influenced by Beethoven; if not throughout then certainly in specific sections. Certainly the opening of D958 is very Beethovenian, for me at least, with its intensity and authoritative statements. But also very Schubertian at the same time. His harmonies are unmistakable and you can hear the Impromptus and Klavierstucke in some of these last great works for the piano. Quite understandably. I'm listening to Brendel from about the 1970s as I write this and his approach to D958 is certainly is a combination of lyricism and attack. And very Beethovenian in speed and intensity. And some dissonant passages in the first movement of D958 are emphasized. I just love Brendel, having been to a lecture of his in the Musikverein in 2011 during the Liszt anniversary celebrations. The Allegro 4th movement is magnificent in its jaunty rhythms:






There's really so much in these works that the D960 is really the crowning statement. Much to digest and consider - and quite a remarkable, individual compositional voice on display. It took me years to come to terms with Schubert's Symphony in C (The Great) because of its length and repeats, but how I love it now.

And here's Kempff with the final movement of D959; that glorious Austrian 'anthem' which so reminds me of Haydn's "Emperor" tune, somewhat paraphrasing the Kaiser hymn:


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I will third Goode as being good.

I've mentioned before, but Schubert appreciators should look up a CD of the three final sonatas by Gabriel Chodos, which is phenomenally good.


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## Classical Playlists (Jan 26, 2020)

Krystian Zimerman.

If you haven't heard his schubert sonatas D959 and D960 recording yet ...
My big favorite


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

This is one where for me Schnabel is absolutely essential


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Just listened to Klara Wurtz play this, from a box of complete Schubert Piano Sonatas plus a few other bits and bobs - a Brilliant Classics special.
It was pretty good. Certainly the whole set looks set fair to be good value if you're on a tight budget.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Christabel said:


> I feel as though D958, 959 and 960 are all influenced by Beethoven


Believe it or not, D960 is also said to be influenced by Mozart:
"... The rewriting of the main theme at the opening of the recapitulation, however, reveals that Schubert had Mozart's famous C major Quintet in mind all along. The recapitulation, in which the detached mounting arpeggio that is a principal element of Mozart's opening now appears (introduced at the end of Schubert's development and continued into the reprise), allows us to see that two other elements of Mozart's structure were already present in Schubert: the decorative and expressive turn is found in both works at the fourth bar of the opening phrase, and Mozart's eccentric five-bar rhythmic structure has been retained but adapted by Schubert to a ten-bar structure. The rhythm, and this is typical of Schubert, is basically similar to his classical model but stretched out to be twice as long. In addition, Mozart shortens a later appearance of his main theme in the exposition to the more orthodox four-bar groups (the fifth bar of each original phrase overlapping with the next), and Schubert obediently follows suit in the counter-statement of his main theme by shortening his ten bars to seven-bar groups (actually eight-bar overlapping phrases). Essentially, even in the last of his great instrumental works, we can see that Schubert retained the conventional Viennese models (Mozart's above all) and increased their size, giving them the greater sense of space that was Schubert's most extraordinary innovation, and which would have a signal effect on the future history of music in the work of both Brahms and Bruckner.
One characteristic of Mozart's conception of large form that Schubert found useful in many works is the bursts of conventional passagework used in the second part of an exposition to round out a section with increased motion. Mozart sometimes develops this just before a short closing theme, as in the Sonata in B flat major, K333 (Example 1.6).
When Schubert imitates this, it causes distress to some of his most ardent admirers (like D.F. Tovey). The root of the difficulty is the increased scale of Schubert's forms. Like Mozart, Schubert needs to introduce an accelerated motion later in his expositions, but he needs it at greater length, and it is not always justified, as it is in Mozart, by a display of virtuosity: unlike Mozart and Beethoven, Schubert was not a virtuoso keyboard player. The conventional nature of the material he uses in the second part of an exposition may seem, consequently, to make too great a contrast with the idiosyncratic and personal opening of the form. Before the final theme of exposition of the Sonata in B flat major of 1828, we find the following bars (Example 1.7)."
< Schubert the Progressive: History, Performance Practice, Analysis, Edited by Brian Newbould, Page 5 >


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> Believe it or not, D960 is also said to be influenced by Mozart:
> "... The rewriting of the main theme at the opening of the recapitulation, however, reveals that Schubert had Mozart's famous C major Quintet in mind all along. The recapitulation, in which the detached mounting arpeggio that is a principal element of Mozart's opening now appears (introduced at the end of Schubert's development and continued into the reprise), allows us to see that two other elements of Mozart's structure were already present in Schubert: the decorative and expressive turn is found in both works at the fourth bar of the opening phrase, and Mozart's eccentric five-bar rhythmic structure has been retained but adapted by Schubert to a ten-bar structure. The rhythm, and this is typical of Schubert, is basically similar to his classical model but stretched out to be twice as long. In addition, Mozart shortens a later appearance of his main theme in the exposition to the more orthodox four-bar groups (the fifth bar of each original phrase overlapping with the next), and Schubert obediently follows suit in the counter-statement of his main theme by shortening his ten bars to seven-bar groups (actually eight-bar overlapping phrases). Essentially, even in the last of his great instrumental works, we can see that Schubert retained the conventional Viennese models (Mozart's above all) and increased their size, giving them the greater sense of space that was Schubert's most extraordinary innovation, and which would have a signal effect on the future history of music in the work of both Brahms and Bruckner.
> One characteristic of Mozart's conception of large form that Schubert found useful in many works is the bursts of conventional passagework used in the second part of an exposition to round out a section with increased motion. Mozart sometimes develops this just before a short closing theme, as in the Sonata in B flat major, K333 (Example 1.6).
> When Schubert imitates this, it causes distress to some of his most ardent admirers (like D.F. Tovey). The root of the difficulty is the increased scale of Schubert's forms. Like Mozart, Schubert needs to introduce an accelerated motion later in his expositions, but he needs it at greater length, and it is not always justified, as it is in Mozart, by a display of virtuosity: unlike Mozart and Beethoven, Schubert was not a virtuoso keyboard player. The conventional nature of the material he uses in the second part of an exposition may seem, consequently, to make too great a contrast with the idiosyncratic and personal opening of the form. Before the final theme of exposition of the Sonata in B flat major of 1828, we find the following bars (Example 1.7)."
> < Schubert the Progressive: History, Performance Practice, Analysis, Edited by Brian Newbould, Page 5 >


This doesn't surprise me in the least; it's just that I know more about Beethoven, that's all.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

I imprinted on the Curzon recording but it wasn't until I heard Richter that D960 really took off for me. Richter takes the molto moderato tempo marking as closer to moderato and with his exquisite control of both phrasing and dynamics (especially the left hand) he has no peers in the first movement. 

For those of you who consider Schubert to be primarily a composer of great lieder, Richter encapsulates the song like, melodic aspects of the first two movements of this sonata superbly. He is no slouch in the final two movements either and the fact that Bruno Monsaigneon uses SR's performance of the work in the opening credits of 'Richter: The Enigma' to set the scene for this wonderful documentary says a lot about what he thinks of the performance and how it relates to Richter as a musician.

One performance worthy of mention that seems to have been missed is Clara Haskils. Until I heard Richter it was my favourite and I still listen to it.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

On the more recent side, any love for Hough's recording? I have his on Hyperion released in 99. I generally enjoy his work.


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> .....
> 
> I have a long list of favorites for this sonata, all of which have something to say: Uchida, Kempff, Richter (eccentric as it is), Rubinstein, de Laroccha, Lupu, Kovacevich.


And so have I. To my surprise, my favourite recording so far in this strong fleld (minus Richter) is a recording made by Rubinstein in 1965 in Italy. It's just a guess - maybe Rubinstein's career didn't coincide with the developing enthusiasm for Schubert's piano sonatas? A matter of great regret for me.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Idiosyncratic in the best way. Less so to me than Richter, and I do not care for his Schubert. Both of these pianists, Yudina and Richter, seem to be "doing something" when they play this piece, and I find more of what I feel as Schubert in Yudina's, more Richter in Richter's.

I also do like the Schiff recordings on Decca, using a Bosendorfer, I think the tone and the shape of most of his performances are wonderful, and I think he is a much more tasteful and successful Schubert player than Beethoven.

Also the DVDs of Brendel, one of my least favorite pianists, show some really marvelous music making. The Schubert sonatas seem to have a little of the same indestructibility as the symphonies and masses (ok, the Sawallisch masses are as dull as everything else he does).


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## David Paul (Dec 26, 2020)

The year was 1982. Summertime. I was home from college, and reading The Brothers Karamazov for a some intellectual exercise during downtime from my summer painting job. I remember settling down one late afternoon to The Brothers K at my grandmother’s house and putting Arthur Rubinstein’s 1969 RCA recording of D. 960 on the turntable. And I can very clearly recall falling in love with this piece from the very first note. Over the years I’ve heard many other versions but the 1969 Rubinstein recording will always be my sentimental favorite.


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