# Haydn Symphony Series Part 5: 41-50



## Ramako

Ok, here it gets really exciting . The 40's, home to some of the greatest symphonies Haydn ever wrote... As always, vote for your favourites.

The Hoboken numbers against the current believed order, and year, of composition.

41. - 47. : 1768
42. - 53. : 1771
43. - 51. : 1770/1771
44. - 50. : 1770/1771
45. - 55. : 1772
46. - 56. : 1772
47. - 54. : 1772
48. - 49. : 1769
49. - 45. : 1768
50. - 59. : 1773/1774

The Haydn symphony site where I got my chronologies from, followed by the previous Haydn symphony threads:

http://www.haydn107.com/index.php?id=21&lng=2

Previous Haydn symphony threads: Previous Haydn symphony threads: 1-10, 11-20,21-30, 31-40


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## Ramako

Haydn's 40s symphonies contain some of my very favourite pieces of music.

1. The Mercury, No. 43, is the last 'chamber' symphony that Haydn wrote. It is not truly in the Sturm und Drang style, but it stands at the doorstep and is best categorised with the Sturm und Drang symphonies, which combined the chamber symphony and the more dramatic type. It begins so beautifully, a relaxed beauty which somehow becomes infused with a powerful dynamic motion as the form unfolds - nevertheless the beauty remains foremost. The second, slow, movement is also in sonata form. In the development section it becomes 'fixated' on one of the motifs in the exposition, which according to someone (can't remember who) betrays an obsessiveness very rarely found in Haydn. It works, though. The reason for it is that the motif, barely transformed, becomes the main theme of the minuet. The last movement for me reaches such a height of sublimity that whenever I hear it something inside me just melts. If the first movement was beautiful, this movement is even more so. This symphony means a great deal to me, and that is mostly because of this last movement.

2. The Trauersymphony, No. 44. This symphony has so much to offer that it is another of my very favourites. A powerful first movement and a canonic minuet which is more interesting than the usual minuet movements, which I, and others, find much less interesting than the other symphonic movements on the whole. However it is in the third movement that it really kicks off, with the slow movement which is so beautiful that Haydn is reputed to have requested played at his funeral, giving the symphony its nickname "Mourning symphony". The last movement is not to be topped, equalling the sentiment of the slow movement with a sheer momentum which I find unparalleled in the entire musical repertoire. This movement works so much better taken with both repeats, as it allows us to hear the fantastic second half twice. In the development the main theme is taken into a sequence which just keeps going, not stopping until it reaches almost "to the crack of doom" itself, before coming back down to the tonic. The coda is really exciting as well.

3. Having gone on at such length on these two I will attempt to be brief on the others. The story of the Farewell is well-known, but I will quote it here anyway for those who may not know it.



> This is the most famous among Haydn's 'Sturm und Drang' symphonies, owing both to its programme and to its unique style and construction.1 Every year, the Esterházy court spent the warm season at Prince Nikolaus's new and splendid, but remote, summer castle 'Eszterhäza'. With the exception of Haydn and a few other privileged individuals, the musicians were required to leave their families behind in Eisenstadt. Haydn's biographer Griesinger tells the story as follows:
> One year, against his usual custom, the prince determined to extend his stay in Eszterhäza for several weeks. The ardent married men, thrown into utter consternation, turned to Haydn and asked him to help. Haydn hit upon the idea of writing a symphony ... in which, one after the other, the instruments fall silent. At the first opportunity, this symphony was performed in the prince's presence. Each of the musicians was instructed that, as soon as his part had come to an end, he should extinguish his light, pack up his music, and leave with his instrument under his arm. The prince and the audience at once understood the point of this pantomime; the next day came the order for the departure from Eszterháza.


There is a lot of excellent music in this set, but I simply cannot vote for everything, and I exceeded my usual ration and went for 4!

4. Symphony 46 is in B major, an unusual key. Haydn had special crooks ordered for his horns which are made use of in this and the Farewell (in f-sharp minor) in order to allow them to be played at such unusual keys. They can be dated together for this reason. The outstanding feature of this symphony is its cyclic form, where the minuet tune comes back in the last movement. This is good because, again unusually, the minuet tune is very good, one of the highlights of the piece.

Other good symphonies here include no. 49, which is also outstanding and would get my vote in almost any other set of symphonies. 50 is also quite good.

I have failed in my task of being brief  Happy voting!


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## Jord

I recently bought all of Haydns symphonies for about £25, Nimbus Records, Adam Fischer, Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, i've not found anything wrong with them so far, however i've never really listened to many other recordings of Haydn, so if anyone wants a cheap set i'd recommend that.

Anyway, i can't really pick my favourite because i've only heard his 41st and 42nd from 40-50, what i will say though is i was walking through a big field/park in the snow through loads of trees near where i live and the woodwind parts in the 2nd movement of the 41st made me feel incredibly surreal and slightly high


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## Hausmusik

I'm going to give all of these symphonies another listen today before casting a vote, but #45 "Farewell," gimmick aside, is one of my favorites from the "Sturm und Drang" period or from the entire Haydn oeuvre for that matter.

BTW, I prefer Weil to Pinnock in the S&D symphonies. Anyone else feel this way?


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## Ramako

I must admit I don't know Weil at all. I am mostly familiar with Adam Fischer through the complete set, though I have some extras for some of these. I have dipped in and out of the Pinnock recordings on YT, but held back on getting them as they would be something of an over-luxury.


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## Novelette

Ramako, thank you for "failing to be brief". 

The whole of the 44th Symphony enraptures me too. The slow movement is the finest, in my opinion, of all of the slow movements of Haydn's symphonic repertoire. Touching and beautiful.


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## clavichorder

I'm more quick to respond to this one, because I know these symphonies pretty well, all of them, I'd say. Now, I've gotta vote.

Edit: what the heck? I voted for 5 of them. 

45 is the undisputed champion in my opinion, its pretty much a masterpiece, and not just conceptually, its sounds really finely wrought but also with that basic middle Haydn language.

My next favorite is probably 48. It has a very fast and upbeat 1st mvt. 47 has an interesting 1st mvt. as well, funny trumpet soundings to the rhythm that Mozart likes to use to much right from the get go. I seem to recall both these go very interesting places.

I couldn't skip out on "La Passion"(49) because its so different and more intensely sturm und drang. 

I gave 41 a vote too because it has a very catchy and well placed slide of the strings that is a repeated highlight of the 1st mvt. I got to know the other mvts of that one well too.

Now, for a truly honest answer: I find all these symphonies will reward an open minded listening. They are up to a high standard. I singled out the ones I did mostly because they had some traits that stuck out, but they aren't necessarily overall superior. I could maybe say that about 47 and 48, and certainly say that about 45(such a gem) and 49 deserves its mention for being darker and more different. But I can understand why votes to others would gain priority. 

However, somehow I am not surprised that 50 has no votes. I'm pretty sure Haydn was conscious of keys in his writing, and it is so soon after 48 and yet somehow I've found it less memorable. It just doesn't stand out for whatever reason in my mind. All the others do somehow.


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## neoshredder

Pinnock is the man. Haven't heard Well though. Should give him a try but I got a bias for Pinnock based on his preference for Baroque and Classical and using Period Instruments of course.


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## Hausmusik

Hi Neo, Weil's set of the S&D (and Paris) symphonies is also on period instruments. If you already have Pinnock, I don't think you need to rush out and buy Weil. I have just been happy with how surprisingly well Weil stacks up to Pinnock, considering how definitive Pinnock's set is said to be.


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## Hausmusik

clavichorder said:


> I am not surprised that 50 has no votes...It just doesn't stand out for whatever reason in my mind. All the others do somehow.


I have to confess the reason that 50 (and 49) got no votes from me is that I do not own recordings of them.


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## Tristan

I'll admit I first only listened to the 46th because of the key--"a Classical period symphony in B major? I must hear this!" But I ended up really liking it. It and the 45th are definitely my favorite of this range, though the 48th is good as well.


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## Novelette

B Major is, in my reckoning, one of those "heroic" keys, squarely with E Major and F-Sharp Major.

Such keys are ideal for exceptionally grand and bombastic music. Whereas E-Flat Major, F Major, and E-Flat Major are ideal for sentimental music. B-Flat Major doesn't really seem to have any extraordinary characteristics.

Does anyone else think that keys have their own unique characteristics, or am I just insane?


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## Tristan

Novelette said:


> B Major is, in my reckoning, one of those "heroic" keys, squarely with E Major and F-Sharp Major.
> 
> Such keys are ideal for exceptionally grand and bombastic music. Whereas E-Flat Major, F Major, and E-Flat Major are ideal for sentimental music. B-Flat Major doesn't really seem to have any extraordinary characteristics.
> 
> Does anyone else think that keys have their own unique characteristics, or am I just insane?


Well, maybe you have synesthesia , there was some talk about this in another thread. I have associations with certain keys, but it comes mainly from experience with pieces in those keys. I know a lot of heroic B major finales (Swan Lake, the Firebird, Dvorak's Cello Concerto, Romeo and Juliet Overture), but I think the same about E-flat because of works like 1812 Overture, Mahler's 2nd & 8th symphonies, etc.

It's too bad there are more symphonies in B major and F-sharp major. I'd love to hear those...


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## Mahlerian

Tristan said:


> I think the same about E-flat because of works like 1812 Overture, Mahler's 2nd & 8th symphonies, etc.


Don't forget the Eroica or Bruckner's 4th!



Tristan said:


> It's too bad there are more symphonies in B major and F-sharp major. I'd love to hear those...


Mahler's 10th is in F-sharp major. As I remember, the sequence is F#-f#(ending in F#)-bf-e-d(ending in F#). As for B major, got me. It's a good bit of strain on your winds to play in sharp keys for extended periods of time.


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## Tristan

Forgot about Mahler's 10th. Now that one I like, even if MTT won't record it because it's not "authentic"... 

As for B major, aside from Haydn's, there is Shostakovich's 2nd, although really, it's mostly atonal and the finale is in B major. Now to find a symphony in D-flat major and G-sharp minor...


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## Mahlerian

Tristan said:


> Forgot about Mahler's 10th. Now that one I like, even if MTT won't record it because it's not "authentic"...


I don't know if there will ever be a fully satisfying orchestration of it, but to my mind, the composition itself is plenty authentic. Did you know that Mahler actually wrote two different codas to the finale? The first one ended in B-flat major, which makes the symphony split into two halves, the first two movements and the final three, but he rewrote the ending in F-sharp so that it ends in the same key it began in.



Tristan said:


> Now to find a symphony in D-flat major and G-sharp minor...


Good luck with that! You may find A-flat minor a bit more common than G-sharp though.

Oh, and I'm listening to that B major Haydn symphony right now. It's a bit weird to hear classical era music in such a distant key.


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## Tristan

Yeah, far as I know, Mahler did write most of it, aside from the orchestration. I like Simon Rattle's recording of the Cooke version.

As for weird keys, I know piano sonatas in G-sharp minor, but the only symphony I was able to find was Myaskovsky's 17th symphony. I hate to say I'll listen to it just because of the key, but I think that's gonna end up happening...


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## clavichorder

Tristan said:


> As for weird keys, I know piano sonatas in G-sharp minor, but the only symphony I was able to find was Myaskovsky's 17th symphony. I hate to say I'll listen to it just because of the key, but I think that's gonna end up happening...


While you are at it, try his 15th. I'll try the 17th then too...

And now, back to FJ Haydn.


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## Arsakes

44, 45, 46, 48 'Maria Theresa', 49. Trauer Symfonie is the best in this decade.


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## OldListener

45 is the sturm und drang masterpiece. However, I listen to 39 more often.

48 is a knockout for me. The Derek Solomons / L'Estro Armonico recording delivers high energy and a manic feeling for my very favorite C major Haydn symphony. The period instruments and especially the high horns sound just right for the music.

Bill


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## DebussyDoesDallas

Much of my favorite Haydn right here. I think it's more fun to limit yourself to one vote, so I'm going for "Mourning"--the adagio puts it over the edge. 
I've collected around 10 versions of many Sturm and Drang symphonies between my complete sets and random single discs and LPs, and I never get sick of them.


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## EdwardBast

No one has specifically spoken up for no. 47 in G, so I will. 

Throughout the symphony the phrasing is delightfully asymmetrical. Don't think there is a single four-square theme in the entire symphony, which is one of the main reasons I greatly prefer these symphonies over the late ones. Strange and innovative features everywhere. And every melody is striking and brimming with personality. Notable features of the individual movements: 

i — The recapitulation of the main theme is in G minor!!! Can't think of another example of this off hand. Help? The second theme is multifaceted, a running string line answered by and then fused with a gorgeous, floating oboe obbligato.

ii — Irregular phrasing makes the theme a constantly unfolding enigma. 

iii — Menuet al Roverso — The repetitions of both the menuet and trio themes are in exact retrograde. Brilliantly executed and quirky themes in either direction.

iv — Rondo form with a great deal of dramatic tension; All of the episodes are agitated and in the minor mode. The retransitions back to the rondo theme are varied and inventive.

This one is a masterpiece from beginning to end. I might be more attracted to stormy 44 and 45, but I can't think of any objective reason to rate this one beneath them.


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## Plato

49 and 44 are the obvious choices, but I share Ramako's taste and love mostly the "Mercury" symphony


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## Funny

I went with a single vote even though I love most of these - the 46th, for reasons I have expanded upon elsewhere here.

James Webster talks about the 'Farewell' and the 46th as companion pieces, both making commentary about the time spent at Eszterhaza. A lot of insights into both of those. However, I have to admit that as much as I love the first movement of the 45th, and could listen to it on repeat a dozen times (and have), I've listened to the rest numerous times without getting the "masterpiece" feeling so many others do. Meanwhile, for me every moment of the 46th comes across that way.

Also, as to the 44th, there's a very interesting cyclic element in the horns, with an evolving secondary / background motive that starts on Do-Re-Sol and then varies that throughout the movements. Not that the 44th doesn't already have enough to recommend it, but that adds another layer of fascination from where I sit.


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## dieter

What the H? They're all great symphonies.


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## Pugg

Love them all :tiphat:


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## Steve Wright

Rescuing a rather ancient thread - hope that's OK - to say how much I LOVE these symphonies. I have the Pinnock 6-CD set of Sturm und Drang symphonies, which mixes them up quite a bit (both chronologically and renown-wise), with generally a notable/named symphony alongside two less well-known ones on each CD. So I come to these Haydn symphony pools for guidance on which to sample next. So, for example I am just listening to the CD with 42, 44 and 46 now. 
The first one I got to know is 48, which is just wonderful. So exuberant and exhilarating. I also love 44 and, not from this group, 26 'Lamentatione', and am getting to know and love the rest...


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## Triplets

That Pinnock set is really great. It 's ideal for someone who wants to dip their toes into middle period Haydn, and even if you have other recordings of those works it's a great supplement. The playing is energetic without being crazy, the balances between the instruments are just right, and it's well recorded.
I am currently working ( bad term--anything this fun isn't work) through the 30s, listening to the Hogwood/AAM set. As good as it is, I wish that Pinnock had been given a crack at them.
I am constantly amazed at Haydn's inventiveness. So much more on display here than in the later, better known works


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## hpowders

Haydn 1/2 the London Symphonies 93-98.

Cleveland Orchestra
George Szell

A shame in the mid-late1960's that Szell only got to record half of the London Symphonies.
Some of the best Haydn one could ever hope to hear.

Just thought I would mention this in friendly territory among people who would appreciate it, away from the Cage fanatics!


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> That Pinnock set is really great. It 's ideal for someone who wants to dip their toes into middle period Haydn, and even if you have other recordings of those works it's a great supplement. The playing is energetic without being crazy, the balances between the instruments are just right, and it's well recorded.
> I am currently working ( bad term--anything this fun isn't work) through the 30s, listening to the Hogwood/AAM set. As good as it is, I wish that Pinnock had been given a crack at them.
> I am constantly amazed at Haydn's inventiveness. So much more on display here than in the later, better known works


I do prefer the Dorati set specially those *41-50* symphonies.


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## Brahmsian Colors

His No. 45 is easily the most musically satisfying of this group. It is the only one I enjoy from start to finish.


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## Bettina

The Farewell Symphony (No. 45). The programmatic narrative is very effective and innovative. It's almost like a multi-movement symphonic poem!


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> The Farewell Symphony (No. 45). The programmatic narrative is very effective and innovative. It's almost like a multi-movement symphonic poem!


Good intermezzo suggestion for the you know who opera.


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## helenora

He has so many symphonies that I'm afraid to get confused about numbers. As far as I remember it was 46th or 48th, one of less known


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## Triplets

I voted for 49 but I like them all. Such inventiveness!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Haydn67 said:


> His No. 45 is easily the most musically satisfying of this group. It is the only one I enjoy from start to finish.


After my last entry on this thread touting the "Farewell", I've since gone positive for most of the others in this lot, namely 42, 44, 46, 47, 48 and 50.


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## T Son of Ander

This is probably my favorite run (the 40s). 43, 44, 45, 48, & 49 being my favorites. If I had to pick one, though, it'd be the Trauer. I just might do like Haydn himself did and have the adagio from that one played at my funeral.

With most music, I have favorite performers for different works, composers, etc. But with these symphonies, there are many that each add their own flavor to them. Weill, Pinnock, Dorati, Fischer, - you can't go wrong with any of them. I Solisti di Zagreb with Janigro have some great Haydn recordings that are available by the Bach Guild. Harnoncourt made some nice recordings, too. It all depends on what suits you or your mood. Davies is hit or miss with me, possibly mood. Sometimes his recordings leave me cold, though they are not bad... just not as, I don't know, fun maybe.


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