# Best Concert Halls



## papsrus

I’m putting together a list (I hesitate to call it a bucket list, but …) of concert halls, primarily in the United States and Europe, that I should try to visit over the coming years. 

Setting aside the halls in Boston, Vienna and Amsterdam, which seem to be universally loved for their orchestras and acoustics and so are already on my list, as well as a couple of others just behind them — Disney in Los Angeles, the Philharmonie in Berlin — I’m interested to know which concert halls members here have enjoyed, with particular attention toward the acoustic qualities of these halls.

Of course, the hall is nothing without the orchestra, and so my little list would probably be confined to those halls that house high-caliber orchestras as well. 

Beginning in the United States, and starting with orchestras that are generally well-regarded, I’d like to know members’ impressions of the following halls:

Chicago Symphony Center
Philadelphia’s Verizon Hall at the Kimmel Center
Cleveland’s Severance Hall
New York’s Avery Fisher Hall (problematic reputation, I realize, but nonetheless opinions welcome)
Dallas Myerson Symphony Center
San Francisco’s Davies Hall
Seattle’s Benaroya Hall
Kansas City’s Kauffman Center
Minneapolis’ Orchestra Hall
Washington’s Kennedy Center

I’ll leave the initial list of my inquiries at that, and I’ve surely missed more than a few in the United States, so forgive that oversight.

And I am interested in European halls/orchestras that should be on such a list as well. I’ll likely not make it back to Asia, or venture down to South America, but opinions on great halls / orchestras in those or any other region of the world, would be welcome, too.


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## TitanisWalleri

For a couple in Europe, I suggest adding KKL Hall Lucerne and Haydn Hall at Esterhazy Palace. This last summer I played in both, and both are magnificent in their own way. KKL is absolutely massive and beautiful, built in a contemporary style with pools of water throughout. Esterhazy has paintings of the Esterhazy family depicted as Roman deities all over the walls and ceiling.


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## SixFootScowl

Hill Auditorium on the campus of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, has world class sound quality. I get $10 tickets in advance for the balcony or mezzanine.


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## SuperTonic

I can speak to the Meyerson Symphony Center in Dallas as I have both performed and attended concerts there. It is by far the best auditorium I have been in, accoustically speaking. It is highly configurable for the size/type of ensemble performing to get the best accoustic environment possible for any performance. It has the most amazing reverberation but still somehow avoids sounding muddy. I would highly recommend it.


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## Skilmarilion

papsrus said:


> And I am interested in European halls/orchestras that should be on such a list as well.


I have only been to three, all in London, and would propose that the Royal Albert Hall is a 'must-see' in that context of the OP (indeed, it is exclusively classical only during the Proms and is not in itself a classical concert venue).

With a relatively good seat, the acoustics are quite impressive imo.


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## D Smith

In New York, don't forget about Carnegie Hall - lush acoustics, especially in the balcony. No one goes to Avery Fisher for anything but the performers, acoustics are poor. Alice Tully Hall next door has clean acoustics and great chamber music.


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## stevens

I recommend Concerbeouw in Amsterdam


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## stevens

I even recommend Copenhagen Concert Hall


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## stevens

I *dont* recommend this one (Dortmund concert hall)


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## Tristan

I've been going to Davies Symphony Hall since I was a toddler.










It's not one of those super-enormous ones, but it seemed to handle Mahler's 8th pretty well. There's just a very large long staircase in the beginning that has tired _me_ out before  I have no complaint about the acoustics, however--sounds great in an MTT Mahler recording, sounds great in person. When the organ was used, I could hear it clearly, brass is never too loud--choruses stand out, etc. It depends on the seats, though--$30 seats up in the nosebleeds (which I have sat in before when nothing else was available)--you may hear a slight dip in quality. Still, it was the "Poem of Ecstasy" and Rachmaninov's "Symphonic Dances"--both pretty epic pieces -_-

One time I sat right near the front during "Daphnis and Chloe" and I could feel my chest vibrating during the "Danse generale"--that was pretty exciting


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## hpowders

papsrus said:


> I'm putting together a list (I hesitate to call it a bucket list, but …) of concert halls, primarily in the United States and Europe, that I should try to visit over the coming years.
> 
> Setting aside the halls in Boston, Vienna and Amsterdam, which seem to be universally loved for their orchestras and acoustics and so are already on my list, as well as a couple of others just behind them - Disney in Los Angeles, the Philharmonie in Berlin - I'm interested to know which concert halls members here have enjoyed, with particular attention toward the acoustic qualities of these halls.
> 
> Of course, the hall is nothing without the orchestra, and so my little list would probably be confined to those halls that house high-caliber orchestras as well.
> 
> Beginning in the United States, and starting with orchestras that are generally well-regarded, I'd like to know members' impressions of the following halls:
> 
> Chicago Symphony Center
> Philadelphia's Verizon Hall at the Kimmel Center
> Cleveland's Severance Hall
> New York's Avery Fisher Hall (problematic reputation, I realize, but nonetheless opinions welcome)
> Dallas Myerson Symphony Center
> San Francisco's Davies Hall
> Seattle's Benaroya Hall
> Kansas City's Kauffman Center
> Minneapolis' Orchestra Hall
> Washington's Kennedy Center
> 
> I'll leave the initial list of my inquiries at that, and I've surely missed more than a few in the United States, so forgive that oversight.
> 
> And I am interested in European halls/orchestras that should be on such a list as well. I'll likely not make it back to Asia, or venture down to South America, but opinions on great halls / orchestras in those or any other region of the world, would be welcome, too.


 Symphony Hall in Boston, arguably the best concert hall acoustically in the United States. That's a great place to go. Stay away from Avery Fisher Hall. Dead sound, although it used to be much worse.


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## papsrus

stevens said:


> I *dont* recommend this one (Dortmund concert hall)
> 
> View attachment 54669


Could you expand on this? I haven't read much about the hall, but what little I have read has been generally favorable.

Still interested to hear about Philly, Chicago and Cleveland.

Interesting comments so far, so good.


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## hpowders

D Smith said:


> In New York, don't forget about Carnegie Hall - lush acoustics, especially in the balcony. No one goes to Avery Fisher for anything but the performers, acoustics are poor. Alice Tully Hall next door has clean acoustics and great chamber music.


Carnegie's simply "okay". I attended concerts there for many years and didn't find it anything special.


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## stevens

papsrus said:


> Could you expand on this? I haven't read much about the hall, but what little I have read has been generally favorable.
> 
> Still interested to hear about Philly, Chicago and Cleveland.
> 
> Interesting comments so far, so good.


-Yes. Dortmund concerthall has the worst acoustics and but world class artists, However, the majority of the audience is not particularly interested in music. Scientists have proven that classical music makes cows and humans to produce more milk, which is why we even let cows listen to the music of selected artists from the new season. The milk produced is sold in the pause and offered in nine varieties.


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## papsrus

hpowders said:


> Carnegie's simply "okay". I attended concerts there for many years and didn't find it anything special.


There is some thought that if a listener is used to the sound of one hall (say, Symphony Hall in Boston) this can influence how one "hears" other halls. Without knowing how extensive your experience with Symphony Hall is, maybe you're assessment of Carnegie is influenced by this? (Although you do say you've been to many concerts at Carnegie).

It's curious how one listener's perception can sometimes differ from another's. Almost invariably, the acoustical adjustments at various concert halls are met with both glowing reviews followed by growing dissatisfaction. Even the acoustical adjustments made by Cyril Harris in the 1970s at Avery Fisher were from what I understand initially greeted as a success. Over time, opinions of the hall have soured.

This is why I was curious in particular about the Chicago Symphony Center and Philadelphia's Verizon Hall at the Kimmel Center. Ongoing adjustments to the acoustics of each of these are often hailed initially as grand successes, then grumpy articles appear sometime later wondering what can be done to salvage these halls.

I have a feeling that the acoustics in both Chicago and Philadelphia are not as problematic as some would lead you to believe, even if one concedes both halls could benefit from some improvement.

Avery Fisher is another matter, apparently.

The other interesting aspect of all this is how the acoustic of a hall shapes the sound of the resident orchestra. The lush tones of the Philadelphia orchestra are said to be to some degree a product of the string musicians compensating for a dry acoustic at both the Academy of Music (it's longtime home prior to Kimmel) and Verizon Hall, for instance.


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## papsrus

stevens said:


> -Yes. Dortmund concerthall has the worst acoustics and but world class artists, However, the majority of the audience is not particularly interested in music. Scientists have proven that classical music makes cows and humans to produce more milk, which is why we even let cows listen to the music of selected artists from the new season. The milk produced is sold in the pause and offered in nine varieties.
> 
> View attachment 54680


Thanks. The Dortmund Orchestra is coming to my city in Florida this winter. No doubt our hall is less acoustically sound than the orchestra's home hall, whatever it's shortcomings may be. I will nonetheless attend and no doubt enjoy.


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## Vaneyes

Boston, Cleveland, Concertgebouw, Musikverein Vienna, are four I would like to experience.:tiphat:


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## nightscape

papsrus said:


> This is why I was curious in particular about the Chicago Symphony Center and Philadelphia's Verizon Hall at the Kimmel Center. Ongoing adjustments to the acoustics of each of these are often hailed initially as grand successes, then grumpy articles appear sometime later wondering what can be done to salvage these halls.
> 
> I have a feeling that the acoustics in both Chicago and Philadelphia are not as problematic as some would lead you to believe, even if one concedes both halls could benefit from some improvement.


Have been to both. I'm from Philadelphia, so I'm extremely familiar with Verizon Hall. It's been a work in progress over the last decade or so, and it's nowhere near as problematic now as you may have been lead to believe after you read articles and interviews. Most of those acoustical issues were from when the hall was first opened, and also before various renovations and adjustments, which have been ongoing. Improvements have been made and it's a perfectly good orchestral hall, especially compared to their former home, the Academy of Music. It's not perfect, but it certainly doesn't belong on a list with some of these big offenders.

I saw two concerts in Chicago last year, where I was positioned once on the ground floor, and once in the balcony. It's a small place, but it sounded fine in both locations.


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## stevens

I have seen that Dortmund has one more concerhall and this one looks much better!


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## papsrus

stevens said:


> I have seen that Dortmund has one more concerhall and this one looks much better!
> 
> View attachment 54683


I believe that is the Konzerthaus Dortmund, in fact the home of the Dortmund Symphony Orchestra. ... So, reassuring. Not sure about the other hall you were referring to.

Thanks


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## papsrus

nightscape said:


> Have been to both. I'm from Philadelphia, so I'm extremely familiar with Verizon Hall. It's been a work in progress over the last decade or so, and it's nowhere near as problematic now as you may have been lead to believe after you read articles and interviews. Most of those acoustical issues were from when the hall was first opened, and also before various renovations and adjustments, which have been ongoing. Improvements have been made and it's a perfectly good orchestral hall, especially compared to their former home, the Academy of Music. It's not perfect, but it certainly doesn't belong on a list with some of these big offenders.
> 
> I saw two concerts in Chicago last year, where I was positioned once on the ground floor, and once in the balcony. It's a small place, but it sounded fine in both locations.


Thanks for your thoughts. As I suspected and will put these two halls on my list! (They already were).


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## papsrus

papsrus said:


> Thanks. The Dortmund Orchestra is coming to my city in Florida this winter. No doubt our hall is less acoustically sound than the orchestra's home hall, whatever it's shortcomings may be. I will nonetheless attend and no doubt enjoy.


A correction, FWIW: It is the Dresden orchestra, not Dortmund, that is coming to town.


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## PetrB

Tristan said:


> I've been going to Davies Symphony Hall since I was a toddler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not one of those super-enormous ones, but it seemed to handle Mahler's 8th pretty well. There's just a very large long staircase in the beginning that has tired _me_ out before  I have no complaint about the acoustics, however--sounds great in an MTT Mahler recording, sounds great in person. When the organ was used, I could hear it clearly, brass is never too loud--choruses stand out, etc. It depends on the seats, though--$30 seats up in the nosebleeds (which I have sat in before when nothing else was available)--you may hear a slight dip in quality. Still, it was the "Poem of Ecstasy" and Rachmaninov's "Symphonic Dances"--both pretty epic pieces -_-
> 
> One time I sat right near the front during "Daphnis and Chloe" and I could feel my chest vibrating during the "Danse generale"--that was pretty exciting


If there is a guest performance of the SFO, or another good orchestra, in the _Flint Auditorium_ at De Anza Junior College, Cupertino, it has a stunningly good acoustic.


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## PetrB

Tristan said:


> I've been going to Davies Symphony Hall since I was a toddler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not one of those super-enormous ones, but it seemed to handle Mahler's 8th pretty well. There's just a very large long staircase in the beginning that has tired _me_ out before  I have no complaint about the acoustics, however--sounds great in an MTT Mahler recording, sounds great in person. When the organ was used, I could hear it clearly, brass is never too loud--choruses stand out, etc. It depends on the seats, though--$30 seats up in the nosebleeds (which I have sat in before when nothing else was available)--you may hear a slight dip in quality. Still, it was the "Poem of Ecstasy" and Rachmaninov's "Symphonic Dances"--both pretty epic pieces -_-
> 
> One time I sat right near the front during "Daphnis and Chloe" and I could feel my chest vibrating during the "Danse generale"--that was pretty exciting


If there is a guest performance of the SFO, or another good orchestra, in the _Flint Auditorium_ at De Anza Junior College, Cupertino, it has a stunningly good acoustic.

Chicago Symphony Center. After millions of dollars to correct some things, the dirty secret is that it still has _dreadful_ sound-pockets where the person seated there feels like they are wearing ear mufflers. Better sound: 1st Balcony, centerish, though the Brass in that hall really can overpower the rest of the orchestra ( its the acoustic) _until you go to the very last rows of the topmost gallery_ -- where all mix and balance problems have sorted out, and _you hear everything._

The superb and extraordinary acoustics of the Concertgebouw, Amsterdam are as so many have reported: the Kleine Zaalsmal there is oval, and also quite fine for chamber music, song recitals.

Wien; Musikverein, Großer Saal -- also deserving of its reputation for fine acoustics.

I have no first-hand experience, but am told Cleveland's Severance Hall is superb.


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## senza sordino

I've attended concerts in the Benaroya Hall in Seattle, Walt Disney Theatre in LA and Lincoln Centre in NYC. All great. But I live in Vancouver, so I attend concerts here far more than any other concert hall. The interesting thing about the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver is it's history. It was built in the 1920's, ancient for a building here in Vancouver. Now designated as a heritage building. Outside it looks quite ordinary, and not too far from a couple of sex shops and the strip club. Inside it's a different world, like something from the old world. 
View attachment 54704

Bramwell Tovey will leave in a couple of years, he's been here longer than any other conductor. He will be missed.
View attachment 54705

The foyer is not big enough when the hall is full, but it's gorgeous.
View attachment 54706

View attachment 54707


I'll be there in a week to hear and see Bramwell Tovey conduct Britten's War Requiem.

The acoustics are fine, though nothing special.


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## Tristan

PetrB said:


> If there is a guest performance of the SFO, or another good orchestra, in the _Flint Auditorium_ at De Anza Junior College, Cupertino, it has a stunningly good acoustic.


It does. I've heard a few youth symphonies perform at the Flint Center


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## Loge

If you guys are in London try out the Cadogan Hall. Very small, a 900 seater, and very loud. In Knightsbridge just off Sloane Square. Very posh, the patrons dress casual to attend, as in sports jackets and khakis. 

So exclusive I can't find a photo to link to you.

Anyway, saw Christmas La Boheme there and it was wonderful.


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## Vaneyes

Cadogan Hall


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## Jeff W

If you're ever in the Albany area, check out the Troy Music Hall!


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## The Fife

Does anyone have thoughts about Kansas City, Minneapolis, or Omaha? I'm from Iowa, and these are the closest out of town symphonies outside of Chicago.


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## waldvogel

Detroit's Orchestra Hall was brought back from the dead about ten years ago. It had been abandoned for years. When musicians and techies went in to do a sound check, to see if it lived up to its old reputation, pigeons were flying around in the building.

After renovations, the sound is superb. It's an old (by North American standards) building from around 1910 or so. Even high up in the balcony, the sound is crystal-clear and just overwhelming at times.


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## waldvogel

An A goes to le theatre des Champs-Elysees for its excellent acoustics. La Salle Pleyel gets a C-. It's the hall where high notes go to die.

The Herkules Saale in Munich sounded pretty good on the two occasions that I've been there. 

Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto opened around 1980. It's one of those places where the architect wanted to make a statement. Presumably, that statement was that he didn't really like music very much. They've spent the last 30 years or so improving the acoustics from "dead" to "average", so it gets a C+. The old concert hall, Massey Hall, is still there, but it's really too big for a concert hall.


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## Couac Addict

waldvogel said:


> An A goes to le theatre des Champs-Elysees for its excellent acoustics. La Salle Pleyel gets a C-. It's the hall where high notes go to die.


Indeed. What maniac would want to perform there? 
There was a fire during the 20s and the hall never recovered. It has improved since the renovations a few years ago but anything would've been an improvement. It is part of a long French tradition for ordinary concert halls. There's a new hall being built and we're pretty nervous about that tradition continuing.


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## CharlieCello

I would go with the Royal Albert Hall as well. There is just something really captivating about it.


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## hpowders

I would be perfectly happy having an orchestral subscription at either Symphony Hall in Boston or the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam.


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## ptr

There are a lot of places where I would go and/or have been, but if I where to build myself a private concert hall, I doubtlessly go for a replica of Amsterdam's Concertgebouw, including an outcrop with a chamber hall like "Wigmore Hall" and a mediateque like the one at IRCAM! 

/ptr


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## Simon Moon

Despite the 'controversial' architecture, my hometown concert hall has world class acoustics.

I've only been to a few of the others listed (Cleveland, San Francisco, Boston), so my experience is limited. But I'd put Disney Hall up against them.


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## Triplets

papsrus said:


> Could you expand on this? I haven't read much about the hall, but what little I have read has been generally favorable.
> 
> Still interested to hear about Philly, Chicago and Cleveland.
> 
> Interesting comments so far, so good.


I live in Chicago. After the renovation in the 90s it sounded terrible. They have done a number of fixes and I c currently think it sounds pretty good, but I haven't changed my seats in about 10 years and there used to be a lot of variability depending where one sat.
Orchestra Hall in Detroit is the best sounding Hall I've ever been in.


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## Triplets

waldvogel said:


> Detroit's Orchestra Hall was brought back from the dead about ten years ago. It had been abandoned for years. When musicians and techies went in to do a sound check, to see if it lived up to its old reputation, pigeons were flying around in the building.
> 
> After renovations, the sound is superb. It's an old (by North American standards) building from around 1910 or so. Even high up in the balcony, the sound is crystal-clear and just overwhelming at times.


I was there in the early 1980s when they were starting to renovate it. I sat for a (free) lunchtime rehearsal for a Yo Yo Ma recital. They had restored the first 6 rows and I believe that Ma was donating part of his fee for additional restoration. A pigeon swooped and got part of my turkey sandwich.
I returned a few years ago for a Concert. All I can say was that the final product is superb, both visually and sonically. To bad the Orchestra has had so many issues the past few years.


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## Radames

Jeff W said:


> View attachment 54803
> 
> 
> If you're ever in the Albany area, check out the Troy Music Hall!


Yes - very uncomfortable seats but great sound.

Montreal had a new hall built a few years ago. It is terrific.


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## Albert7

Why do people think Avery Fisher Hall is bad?


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## Harri

I strongly recommend the Symphony Hall in Birmingham, UK. The hall was created specifically for its adaptable acoustics and can hold most genres as the hall contains acoustic chambers which when opened at different degrees, change the acoustics of the hall. Listening to classical music here is a wonderful experience, I recently saw Maxim Vengerov there, and it was truly fantastic, not only his performance, but the environment, and the experience


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## papsrus

albertfallickwang said:


> Why do people think Avery Fisher Hall is bad?


This article might shed some light. From the New Yorker (1976). It's quite a long article, so settle in with a beverage and a snack.

I thought I'd mentioned this upthread, but basically acousticians have all the tools necessary to build acoustically great halls. The problem generally arises when political pressures rear their ugly head to impose changes on the design of the halls in order to make them either multi-purpose, or larger.

Such was the case with what is now known as Avery Fisher Hall when the old New York Herald started advocating for a change in the design of the hall to make it bigger (more egalitarian). The hall was made bigger as a result, and thus the original design was compromised. The article linked above details the efforts of acoustician Cyril Harris to improve the hall. His changes were initially greeted as a success, but over time opinion of the hall has soured.

(I suspect there may be something of a "confirmation bias" going on with regard to Avery Fisher, too. Everyone else thinks it sounds dull, so in order to align myself with informed opinion, I'd better feel the same way.)

Coincidentally, I was reading a review today in the NY Times of a performance of Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante in E flat at Avery Fisher which in the first paragraph bemoaned the poor acoustics in the hall for music of the Baroque and Classical periods.

I've never been to the hall, myself. But the above mentioned political pressure to change the design no doubt compromised the acoustics there.

The same has been said for the Sydney Opera House, where I think the mayor at the time it was being built decided to switch things around mid stream and make the concert hall space the opera theater, and the opera theater space the concert hall. This was done, supposedly, because concerts were more popular than opera and the size of the space that was supposed to be the opera hall was larger. Thus the switcheroo. The architect quit mid-project and Australian musicians rated the hall as the worst in the country in a poll some years ago in Limelight Magazine. I think musicians in the Sydney orchestra even threatened to go on strike at some point if something wasn't done about the hall.

So, basically, as long as halls are built for the single purpose of orchestra music and adhere to the acoustician's design, they should be fine. (See Disney, etc.) When politicians and other political forces get involved to compromise that design for so-called egalitarian purposes (cries for multipurpose halls or larger halls) things can go awry, it seems.


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## papsrus

I should say that multipurpose halls are not necessarily acoustically inferior (nor are egalitarian notions misguided, of course).

I PM'd a member here who goes to the Sage Gateshead -- a multipurpose hall capable of hosting both amplified music and orchestral music. It is by all accounts a wonderful hall. But the acousticians took the multipurpose nature of the hall into account when designing it. Typically these halls have so-called "adjustable" acoustics, where ceilings can be raised or lowered, acoustic chambers opened or closed, cloth curtains raised or lowered, etc., to tailor the acoustic of the hall to the performance. In the case of Sage, this has been accomplished quite well, it seems.

So, multipurpose halls can certainly be great halls. But the design should be done by acousticians and engineers, not politicians and newspapers, i'd guess.


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## Loge

repeat post repeat post repeat post


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## papsrus

hpowders said:


> Carnegie's simply "okay". I attended concerts there for many years and didn't find it anything special.


I recently started thumbing through Leo Beranek's "Concert Halls and Opera Houses," considered to be a seminal work on the acoustic quality of concerts halls in Europe and the United States.

The book is organized by country, so I looked at German halls, then halls in England, Czech halls (no Russia, interestingly). Flipping around the book haphazardly.

Most of his assessments are generally positive, or even-toned. At worst he is encouraging when talking about the sound quality of various "problematic" halls and the improvements or refurbishments that have been made to them (say, in the case of a Royal Festival Hall, for instance).

When it came to Carnegie, I was quite surprised by his assessment. He suddenly shifts to an almost angry tone in his writing. After renovations in 1986 and 1989, he states: "The worst acoustics I have ever heard in any concert hall exist today in the front rows of the top balcony."

That's harsh, give the overall encouraging tone of the book (from what I've read of it so far.) He devotes fully three times as much ink to Carnegie as he does to pretty much any other hall in the book.

I had always assumed it was a great hall, but apparently for some, that's not the case -- at least for the period discussed in the book.


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## anthonycwein

I'm looking to possibly take a trip to a "lesser known" concert hall that would offer a unique experience (generally looking in Eastern Europe & Northern Europe), some I have considered:

Sibelius Hall (Finland)
Kyev Philharmonic (Ukirane)
Helsinki Music Center (Finland)
Lithuanian National Philharmonic Hall (Lithuania)
Oslo Concert Hall (Norway)

Would be open to any other recommendations in Russia/Ukraine/Finland/Baltic/Scandinavia that are not as well known but have great symphonies/halls.


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## Mal

Symphony Hall, Birmingham









http://www.thsh.co.uk/symphony-hall/

"Symphony Hall opened in 1991 to immediate public and critical acclaim. With its world class acoustics and stunning auditorium it is considered to be not only the UK's finest concert hall but also one of the best in the world."

I've been there a few times and the acoustics are wonderful. Manchester also has a good reputation:

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2015/mar/05/10-worlds-best-concert-halls-berlin-boston-tokyo


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## Guest

Also voting for Montreal's MAISON SYMPHONIQUE built 5 years ago, a Kent Nagano initiative.


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## Stavrogin

My sensitivity to the quality of acoustics is close to zero, so I can't judge from that point of view.
But looking at some awesome pics in this thread, I am having second thoughts about how much I like to go to the Auditorium di Milano.









The Teatro alla Scala is a different type of experience.


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## hpowders

papsrus said:


> I recently started thumbing through Leo Beranek's "Concert Halls and Opera Houses," considered to be a seminal work on the acoustic quality of concerts halls in Europe and the United States.
> 
> The book is organized by country, so I looked at German halls, then halls in England, Czech halls (no Russia, interestingly). Flipping around the book haphazardly.
> 
> Most of his assessments are generally positive, or even-toned. At worst he is encouraging when talking about the sound quality of various "problematic" halls and the improvements or refurbishments that have been made to them (say, in the case of a Royal Festival Hall, for instance).
> 
> When it came to Carnegie, I was quite surprised by his assessment. He suddenly shifts to an almost angry tone in his writing. After renovations in 1986 and 1989, he states: "The worst acoustics I have ever heard in any concert hall exist today in the front rows of the top balcony."
> 
> That's harsh, give the overall encouraging tone of the book (from what I've read of it so far.) He devotes fully three times as much ink to Carnegie as he does to pretty much any other hall in the book.
> 
> I had always assumed it was a great hall, but apparently for some, that's not the case -- at least for the period discussed in the book.


Carnegie Hall used to be one of the world's best. Not any more. I've attended between 10-20 concerts there and the acoustics were disappointing. At least I got to hear Artur Rubinstein give a piano recital there, which I will never forget.

I'm dying to hear the Boston Symphony in Symphony Hall, Boston, since that would be "doable" for me. The Concertgebouw is too far away. I wish I could attend an orchestral concert there. Both of these halls are supposed to be among the world's best.


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## papsrus

Since writing the above post in 2014 on Carnegie, I attended a concert there in 2015, my first at the hall -- Chicago Symphony Orchestra with Muti. 

Now, I sat 6th row center (I believe ... fairly close but not too close). The sound of the orchestra was powerful, and the hall was clear and resonant. Pretty sensational all around.

The critical quote I lifted from the Beranek book above talked about the front rows of the balcony as being lousy, so I can't speak to that. 

I know there was some disappointment in Carnegie after a refurbishment in the '80s, I think? Some talk about somebody filling in an open space under the stage with concrete, thus deadening the sound. Then some years later the concrete was removed and the acoustics were restored. Then more talk about the whole concrete thing was just an urban legend. ... Who the hell knows? 

In any case, judging from my own experience (very positive) and the appraisal of various music critics here and there, it seems as though Carnegie is just fine. I defer to you as you have much greater sample size than me, but prevailing views seem generally positive, at least these days. 

I have to say I had a sense that Beranek may have had an ax to grind in his own critical comments about Carnegie. He was, I believe, involved at some point in one of the refurbishments over at Avery Fisher -- judged to have been largely a failure. And that's probably being kind.

I have nothing really to base my suspicions on, other than I assume there was some professional pride at stake and it's possible he may have wanted to cast Avery Fisher in a more favorable light by criticizing Carnegie. The sudden shift in his tone when discussing Carnegie only reinforced this suspicion ... but it's only a suspicion on my part. (If I recall, he was somewhat complementary of Avery Fisher in the book -- or at least forgiving of its supposed shortcomings. And I've never heard anyone compare Avery Fisher favorably to Carnegie).

Perhaps Carnegie is just one of those places that some people like and others don't. I enjoyed it immensely in person. Although the CSO may have had something to do with that.


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## Pugg

I remember being in Birmingham concert hall and they had Walton: Belshazzar's Feast that nigh.
I was quit impressed that night, wonderful sound and a great organ .


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## Ilarion

My vote goes to the Meyerson Center in Dallas. With its infinitely adjustable resonance chambers, one can get a Cathedral-like bloom of sound, which when the organ thunders, it leaves ones mind totally dazzled.


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## Autocrat

Sydney Opera House is an impressive building with poor acoustics. Just up the road, the City Recital Hall in Angel Place is a singularly undistinguished building housing a small concert hall with close to perfect acoustics. 

True story.


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## Steatopygous

Autocrat said:


> Sydney Opera House is an impressive building with poor acoustics. Just up the road, the City Recital Hall in Angel Place is a singularly undistinguished building housing a small concert hall with close to perfect acoustics.
> 
> True story.


Absolutely true, I vouch for it. 
But the best hall in Australia, one acquiring world fame among performers, is Melbourne's new Recital Centre, which employed the very latest technology. I want to say it was carved from a single piece of wood, though that can't be right, but I do remember that it was fixed solid, so that if they'd got it wrong it would just be too bad. Fortunately they didn't. I have heard someone's stomach rumble five rows away. One can hear every voice on stage - eg, the inner voices of 2nd violin and viola, usually submerged, in a string quartet - with wonderful clarity. Unfortunately you can also hear every rustle of cough lolly cellophane, every whisper, every cough. An orchestra in there is overpowering, but perfect for recitals, chamber opera and the like.


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## papsrus

Autocrat said:


> Sydney Opera House is an impressive building with poor acoustics. Just up the road, the City Recital Hall in Angel Place is a singularly undistinguished building housing a small concert hall with close to perfect acoustics.
> 
> True story.


This may have been mentioned up-thread, but ... the Sydney Opera House contains both an opera house and concert hall, among other smaller performance spaces. The mayor of Sydney (or maybe it was some other politician?) at the time of the building's construction decided that concerts were more popular than opera, and so decreed that the larger space meant for the opera house should instead be the concert hall (2,600 seats), and the smaller space meant for the concert hall would serve as the opera house (1,500 seats).

The architect quit, and the predictable result is what you're left with.

The same kind of "populist" sentiment is what sabotaged Avery Fisher, when a now-defunct newspaper in New York launched a campaign for the architects to enlarge the space from its original design so as to be more "inclusive." Didn't work out.


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## Autocrat

papsrus said:


> This may have been mentioned up-thread, but ... the Sydney Opera House contains both an opera house and concert hall, among other smaller performance spaces. The mayor of Sydney (or maybe it was some other politician?) at the time of the building's construction decided that concerts were more popular than opera, and so decreed that the larger space meant for the opera house should instead be the concert hall (2,600 seats), and the smaller space meant for the concert hall would serve as the opera house (1,500 seats).
> 
> The architect quit, and the predictable result is what you're left with.


Generally true. The main hall was meant to be for both opera and concerts, while the smaller space was for smaller staged productions. When Bob Askin - as corrupt a politician as has probably ever existed - was elected Premier of NSW it was partly on the back of whining about the opera house project (which was nearly 10 years long by this point and not looking like being completed soon).

So they did their best to get rid of Utzon and took over the project themselves. A pack of Philistines, but in their defence the project was looking like a bottomless money pit. But sometimes that's the price of great art, which the opera house most certainly is, at least on the outside.

All in all, it took 15 years to build and was 10 times over budget. It would be great if the interior matched up to the exterior and the location, but I see it every day and it is never short of breathtaking.


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## Noelle

Hello everyone,

I'm doing some research for a film for Vice in the Netherlands. It's about people that like to travel for their biggest passion: music. I am really curious if there are people amongst you guys who live in Europe and like to travel to a another European country to see/experience the next beautifull concert hall. I am looking forward to hear your stories. 

Thanks,

Nowelle


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## MarkW

papsrus said:


> Since writing the above post in 2014 on Carnegie, I attended a concert there in 2015, my first at the hall -- Chicago Symphony Orchestra with Muti.
> 
> Now, I sat 6th row center (I believe ... fairly close but not too close). The sound of the orchestra was powerful, and the hall was clear and resonant. Pretty sensational all around.
> 
> The critical quote I lifted from the Beranek book above talked about the front rows of the balcony as being lousy, so I can't speak to that.
> 
> I know there was some disappointment in Carnegie after a refurbishment in the '80s, I think? Some talk about somebody filling in an open space under the stage with concrete, thus deadening the sound. Then some years later the concrete was removed and the acoustics were restored. Then more talk about the whole concrete thing was just an urban legend. ... Who the hell knows?
> 
> In any case, judging from my own experience (very positive) and the appraisal of various music critics here and there, it seems as though Carnegie is just fine. I defer to you as you have much greater sample size than me, but prevailing views seem generally positive, at least these days.
> 
> I have to say I had a sense that Beranek may have had an ax to grind in his own critical comments about Carnegie. He was, I believe, involved at some point in one of the refurbishments over at Avery Fisher -- judged to have been largely a failure. And that's probably being kind.
> 
> I have nothing really to base my suspicions on, other than I assume there was some professional pride at stake and it's possible he may have wanted to cast Avery Fisher in a more favorable light by criticizing Carnegie. The sudden shift in his tone when discussing Carnegie only reinforced this suspicion ... but it's only a suspicion on my part. (If I recall, he was somewhat complementary of Avery Fisher in the book -- or at least forgiving of its supposed shortcomings. And I've never heard anyone compare Avery Fisher favorably to Carnegie).
> 
> Perhaps Carnegie is just one of those places that some people like and others don't. I enjoyed it immensely in person. Although the CSO may have had something to do with that.


Beranek was the original acoustical consultant for Fischer (nee Philharmonic) Hall, and after it proved fairly disastrous was denied the chance to "tune" the hall by moving around the acoustical "clouds" that floated under the ceiling, and which he thought would fix it. A subsequent refurbishing by acoustician Cyril Harris in the mid 1970s improved Fischer Hall, but not by enough -- hence the currently envisioned re-refurbishing scheduled for a couple of years from now. Whether or not Beranek got a raw deal, I don't know, but I've been in at least one other hall by him that had problems.


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## Pugg

Noelle said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm doing some research for a film for Vice in the Netherlands. It's about people that like to travel for their biggest passion: music. I am really curious if there are people amongst you guys who live in Europe and like to travel to a another European country to see/experience the next beautifull concert hall. I am looking forward to hear your stories.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nowelle


Browse through the opera section, there are people like myself who do :tiphat:


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## amayzak

papsrus said:


> Perhaps Carnegie is just one of those places that some people like and others don't. I enjoyed it immensely in person. Although the CSO may have had something to do with that.


I had the privilege of hearing Muti and the CSO perform Verdi's Requiem at the Musikverein in 2014 - the combination was electrifying to the point where I couldn't sleep that night after the concert. I was in the nosebleed section (2nd to the last row, top balcony) and could hear pages being turned on stage. The floor & chairs vibrated during low passages and higher notes, particularly vocals, had a "bloom" to them, almost like an opera house. All around, very radiant & cohesive. Need to attend more concerts with different orchestras, but based on that one experience, I'd highly recommend planning a trip to Vienna.

Your original post mentioned Benaroya Hall. I've been many times and sat in different sections. To my ear, it's clear and warm, if tuned slightly higher than other halls, and I cannot hear much a difference anywhere in the house. Most recently, Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto and Scheherazade were on the program and there was a definite "spark" to the sound; high strings & percussion are crisp and carry quite well. The inner walls are made of wood rather than fabric which I think lends to the "live" sound with minimal deadening. Much work was done during construction to isolate the auditorium from the light rail station underneath, so that may have impacted the hall's overall ability to enhance bass.


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## Judith

For me it has to be Leeds Town Hall. Designed by an unknown designer called Cuthbert Broderick. Opened in 1858 by Queen Victoria but the clock and tower was added later. The concerts take place in the aptly named Victoria Hall in the middle of the building. The architecture is just amazing. It is my photo on this site.


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## Matthewv789

*US halls.*

Here are some thoughts:

I very much liked Chicago. I was sitting mid balcony, so may have been in favorable seats not affected by dead zones. The sound was clear, warm, rich, and exciting, and there was a good feeling of intimacy. The strings and woodwinds were beautiful and the brass brilliant. It my favorite concert experience in the halls i've visited outside San Francisco.

Disney Hall in Los Angeles was nice, but not quite my favorite. The sound was clear, and though not exactly thin, it was seldom viscerally exciting. I think only once in the whole concert did I "feel" the music in a physically invigorating way, for a few seconds. Also didn't give the best feeling of intimacy, though it wasn't really bad either. Still, very good overall, a Hall they can really be happy about.

Boston Symphony Hall has a nice, smooth, full, warm reverberation. But the sound isn't very clear and middle voices are often lost, at least from my balcony seat. I see what the fuss is about, but I don't think it's clearly the best hall overall, though perhaps some seats are better than where I sat and maybe few are really bad. Maybe also with more time my ears (brain) would adjust and i'd Start hearing details better?

Benaroya in Seattle was again nice, but not a favorite. It has a decent balance of warmth and clarity. I always sat in the balcony. In corner seats the sound seemed slightly underwhelming I suppose, and perhaps not very intimate - I just have little memory of those concerts. Sitting in the middle of the side of the balcony I could hear a distinct trumpet echo. It certainly wasn't bad, but there wasn't anything I fell in love with, aside from the Chihuly chandeliers in the lobby.

Flint Center in Cupertino has a very beautiful, warm, full (but not muddy) sound, really excellent especially from the balconies. But the complex ceiling absorbs higher frequencies so it lacks sizzle and sparkle. Also the stage enclosure isn't very helpful and the middle voices can lack clarity and presence. If they could fix the ceiling and stage enclosure this could be a GREAT Hall, aside from the inadequate lobby and restroom facilities.

I heard one concert of the Sacramento Symphony (when it existed) in the Community Center Theatre, middle back of upper balcony, and the sound was fantastic! I was totally surprised! No idea what other seats sound like though. I think I saw the SFS there once too, maybe sitting on the floor, and I vaguely remember the sound seeming decently good there as well. But it's not a place you ever hear about. Maybe I just got lucky in my seats.

Weill Hall at Sonoma State University (patterned after Seiji Ozawa Hall at Tanglewood, which is itself inspired by the Grosser Musikvereinsaal in Vienna) has a nice overall sound, though slightly less full I think than Boston. But yet again middle voices are recessed and difficult to hear. It seems to me that many of these box halls could benefit from some kind of overhead reflectors like San Francisco has, to give more presence and intimacy to middle voices especially.

And last, Davies Symphony Hall in San Francisco. I've heard many concerts here, including some prior to the 1992 renovations. I actually have come to love this Hall. It has often greater clarity than most box halls (due to the overhead reflectors and the curved-in walls over the stage), great warmth (the basses can be very strong), significant intimacy (you'd be surprised how good chamber music sounds here! better than in most smaller halls), a nice balance of different frequencies and instruments, and a lot of visceral, physical excitement to the sound. It can be utterly beautiful in very quiet moments, and devastatingly exciting in loud ones. I also find it striking visually when you step into the Hall. Significantly, since 1992 I really haven't heard of any complaints about the sound from orchestra, audience, or critics. (I heard rumors that at least some members of the Berlin Philharmonic said it was their favorite US Hall they played in during a tour about 10 years ago. It was also one of the only places they played any encores.) concerts here feel like a real event, with a sense of excitement. In many seats it sounds really great, and barely any are very poor. They did subsequently take out a few of the diffusers at the back of the stage, I have heard. But otherwise no changes since 1992, all adjustments are planned for and routine, by adjusting the height and angle of each acrylic reflector over the stage individually, as well as the height of the hanging banners along the walls, all computer controlled and often adjusted to a different programmed position between each piece. Perhaps refinements after much experimentation over the years have really optimized these positionings and result in well balanced sound across most seats?

(I also like Hertz Hall at UC Berkeley fairly well, not so much Le Petite Trianon in San Jose where they do a lot of chamber music. Echoey and with a strange resonance. Disappointingly overrated.)

I'm still curious about Carnegie, Dallas, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Troy savings bank Hall in Albany, Nashville's new Hall and some others.


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## eljr

D Smith said:


> In New York, don't forget about Carnegie Hall - lush acoustics, especially in the balcony. No one goes to Avery Fisher for anything but the performers, acoustics are poor. Alice Tully Hall next door has clean acoustics and great chamber music.


This!

Exactly right about all three venues. :tiphat:


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