# Round Three: Mon cœur s'ouvre à ta voix. Stignani and Ludwig



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Stignani's is in Italian


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Based on the evidence, I wouldn’t think of either Stignani or Ludwig as Dalila. Stignani sings matter-of-factly and it’s only in comparison that Ludwig sounds sexier. Ludwig’s lower voice sounds tremulous here - is this a late recording? Maybe she’s just unsuited to the role, as I think Stignani is. If I must vote, I pick Ludwig.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I have a feeling people are going to say Stignani sounds elderly etc. but I think her voice is very beautiful here. Ludwig is okay but doesn't really sound at her best in this music.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

So far I seem to be bombing out on this contest. Sorry. Callas will be fabulous, I promise.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> So far I seem to be bombing out on this contest. Sorry. Callas will be fabulous, I promise.


You are not bombing out. People have different opinions and experiences when hearing different singers.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Stignani's is in Italian


Stignani is a Dalila who is a dignified priestess as well as a lover. She sings full out but the reading lacks the sense of danger and irony. Ludwig also sounds monochromatic.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> You are not bombing out. People have different opinions and experiences when hearing different singers.


I get can get carried away just with a really gorgeous voice like Stignani I forget the other stuff. I could not be a good critic. I think perhaps lots of women from the repressed mid 20th century find it difficult to embrace their temptress side.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I enjoyed both of these singers and find little to criticize. It's odd hearing the aria in Italian, but Stignani's voice is sumptuous, her phrases are beautifully shaded, and I liked her more than I expected to. Ludwig is very attractive too, with a touch more insinuation in her phrasing which I suspect is simply inherent in her voice. For me it comes down to a preference for one voice over another, and I'm finding myself unable to decide. I'm going to put off voting and wait to see whether one singer takes what looks like an unfair lead.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I enjoyed both of these singers and find little to criticize. It's odd hearing the aria in Italian, but Stignani's voice is sumptuous, her phrases are beautifully shaded, and I liked her more than I expected to. Ludwig is very attractive too, with a touch more insinuation in her phrasing which I suspect is simply inherent in her voice. For me it comes down to a preference for one voice over another, and I'm finding myself unable to decide. I'm going to put off voting and wait to see whether one singer takes what looks like an unfair lead.


This is a short video of Ludwig singing this and not only is she quite convincing but I was stunned at how gorgeous she was!!!!!!!!!!!! In still face portraits she is fine looking but nothing special, but all dolled up and showing off her spectacular figure she must have been one of the most beautiful and sensuous temptresses of Samson in any opera. I miss the strength down low in her in the example I posted for the contest that Stignani had but love the variable vibrato she had in her vocal line In this her low voice is much better. I couldn't use this as it was shortened like Farrell's fine version.It made my day to hear your reaction to Stignani, who's voice and musicianship I find so intoxicating.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This aria is so popular and well known that I sometimes think we forget what it is about and what its context. In the previous aria Dalila, alone, sets out her plan to seduce Samson, "Love, come to my aid and pour the poison in his breast." She doesn't love him back. If anything she is a Mata Hari sort of figure, and this aria is Dalila at work. I want it to be sexy and sensuous, but I also want to hear the danger lurking beneath and I don't get that from either of these ladies. Incidentally, both of them break the _Ah, réponds a ma tendresse _phrase into two, although in Stignani's case the Italian translation achieves it more naturally.

The studio recording of *Samson et Dalila *with Ludwig and King was the first one I ever heard and owned, but I never really liked it, and I've found it difficult to find one I find satisfactory. Ludwig is a singer I usually like, but I just don't think she was suited to this role and her singing of the aria is, unusually for her, just a bit penny plain. Stignani's voice sound very beautiful here, but she doesn't for one moment conjure up the character of Dalila as I envisage her. She sounds more like a mother warmly comforting her child.

I'm going to go for Ludwig, but there's not much in it and I should really be voting "neither of the above".


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I really like Stignani and whilst her general tone and style will sound too 'old school' to some modern ears I find it authorative rather than matronly. Her legato and committment mean that the language she is singing in doesn't put me off either. I really like her here. It's, perhaps not as seductive as I would like (Meier, Baltsa and Verrett are my benchmarks here), but it's better than some of the others we have heard so far.

Ludwig had a very different voice and her singing is very lovely. Her general attitude is softer than Stignani and that's right for this aria (it's a seduction aria). I think I here more of what I think of as the character of Dalila in this version than in Stignani's excellently sung one.

I vote for Ludwig!

N.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

*Christa Ludwig raises an eyebrow at Netrebko and overhype - *









Christa Ludwig raises an eyebrow at Netrebko and overhype


In a wide-ranging 89th birthday interview the great mezzo Christa Ludwig speaks frankly about career and colleagues.




limelightmagazine.com.au





Unusually, for a famous opera singer, she admits that opera never really interested her with the possible exception of Wagner or Strauss. “But all the Italian operas of Rossini, Donizetti, and Verdi: Is that really art?” she says. 

Asked about colleagues she admired, she replies “actually, none”, but makes something of an exception for the late Jon Vickers and Maria Callas. “When Jon Vickers sang ‘Gott, welch Dunkel hier’ [God, what darkness here – in _Fidelio_], I began to weep on the stage,” she says. “This had nothing to do with beautiful singing, that was expression… If, on the other hand, I hear the _stretta_ from _Il Trovatore_ with the high C, I am delighted, but I do not admire him. Callas is probably the only one I admire: her voice was the tragedy of her life.” 

Responding to a question about fame, she gently mocks operatic rivalries: “Of course, you can listen to who has more applause. And it depends on how one receives that applause: drop to the knees, let the long hair fall on the stage, for hours, arms up, the people scream – then one gets up quite slowly. This is great art.” 

When asked if she’d ever wanted to become a ‘star’, she replies that it isn’t something one thinks about, one just becomes it, adding that she believes she was lucky that her ‘rivals’ at the time were either too old or too young. She also insists that there is no such thing as the best. “If today it is said that Netrebko, who has a lot of advertising, is the best opera singer in the world, this is not true,” she declares. “Apart from Netrebko there are many that are not known. In five years we will have another Netrebko.” 

“As a singer one must wear blinkers. A stupid singer can still make a career. But that is so difficult! Look at Maria Callas – she did not have a nice voice, but what she made of it, these interpretations – incredible! When Callas sings a Bellini recitative, I begin to cry. But sometimes you cannot describe what a singer has or does not have. Is it called charisma? Or personality? ‘It’s a secret,’ my mother always said. I do not know if I had that secret aged 20.”


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

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Ebe Stignani – Dramatic Mezzo - Classical Music and Musicians


Ebe Stignani (July 10, 1903 – October 5, 1974) was an Italian opera singer, who was pre-eminent in the dramatic mezzo-soprano roles of the Italian repertoir




classicalmusicandmusicians.com





"Stignani became a paragon of twentieth-century singers in her vocal range (from low F to high C) and in her power and musicianship. Although she herself admitted to be being no actress, her stage appearances carried dramatic force through her singing alone. Her career was born in an age of great mezzos and extended into the prime years of Giulietta Simionato and Fedora Barbieri.

There is debate, even today, as to whether Signani was a soprano or a mezzo. She certainly was well known for singing mezzo roles, and she could sing soprano roles also. I think that what makes the most sense is that she was a mezzo with an extension who preserved her voice during her 30-year career by not singing roles that were wrong for her voice. If this kept her primarily in the mezzo repertory, so be it. A case could be made that she was really “zwischen” (“between” in German), but I don’t believe that it matters. She knew her voice, and stayed with roles that would be healthy for her to sing."









My Favourite Opera Singers- Ebe Stignani


Ebe Stignani Vocal category: Dramatic mezzo Composers: Bellini, Donizetti, Mascagni, Verdi, Rossini, Saint-Saëns, Gluck, Ponchielli, Bizet Strengths of the Singer Stignani was the preeminent dramat…




talesoftessitura.wordpress.com





"Stignani had the distinction of possessing three unique timbres to her voice. While the lower voice throbbed like an oboe, with a seemingly bottomless quality, her middle voice was warm and sensual and extended upwards into a clear, dramatic upper register, which equally could lighten up and project overtones like a dramatic soprano. In some ways, Stignani could be likened to, and be seen as the blueprint, for the great Maria Callas, who would become both revered and notorious for her lack of homogeneity between registers.

As well as possessing a similar instrument to Callas tonally, Stignani was also comparable to the latter through her great facility with coloratura;

Although possessing a wonderfully supported range, Stignani’s upper register was never as free or easy as others. For example, in the famous Norma duet, Stignani hardly ever sang the exposed High C, which suggests there was a definite ceiling to her upper register. Due to the slight unevenness of her registers, Stignani could sometimes lose refinement and clarity, despite her great technique and musicianship."


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Rise, Rise, where art thou???
Between the two above I choose Stignani. Her strength of power in holding notes is exquisite.
I normally love Ludwig's voice -- but not this time.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


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I'd dispute some of this. I believe she was a mezzo and, unlike Simionato who sang Adalgisa to Callas's Norma at least as often, she transposed the duets down and even then ducked some of the high notes. Admttedly by this time she was nearing the end of her career, but she certainly doesn't sound like a soprano _manqué_, and in her recorded Normas with Callas she sounds quite matronly to me. Nor was her coloratura anywhere near as well defined as Callas's. 

Nonetheless I do not dispute for one moment that she was the possessor of a most beautiful and impressive voice, particularly in her earlier years.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Stignani was told she could sing short dramatic soprano parts but that her timbre and placement was that of a mezzo. She did practice the role of Norma with piano but she realized she would not be able to sing the whole part with orchestra comfortably. In her early recordings she sounds almost like a lyric soprano. She actually sang then Gutrune and Aanchen. In the 1930s she used to interpolate a high C in the Concertato in La Favorita and in her recording of Norma with Gina Cigna she sings Mira o Norma in the original higher key.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


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Earlier I presented her in the big closing scene from Azucena and no one would EVER say she couldn't be a hair raising actress. I have come to love her more with age. Her big aria from La Favorita is incomparable in my book. She did a marvelous Casta Diva but whether she could take on the whole soprano role is debatable.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> Stignani was told she could sing short dramatic soprano parts but that her timbre and placement was that of a mezzo. She did practice the role of Norma with piano but she realized she would not be able to sing the whole part with orchestra comfortably. In her early recordings she sounds almost like a lyric soprano. She actually sang then Gutrune and Aanchen. In the 1930s she used to interpolate a high C in the Concertato in La Favorita and in her recording of Norma with Gina Cigna she sings Mira o Norma in the original higher key.


 Interesting, then, that she shoud be paired here with Ludwig, another mezzo who briefly considered moving into soprano repertoire. She did sing Leonore of course, and also the Dyer's Wife and the Marschallin, and she toyed with the idea of Brünnhilde, but decided against it. I seem to remember reading an interview with her in Opera Magazine, in which she said she worried she might compromise the essential quality of her voice and decided to stay a mezzo.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Interesting, then, that she shoud be paired here with Ludwig, another mezzo who briefly considered moving into soprano repertoire. She did sing Leonore of course, and also the Dyer's Wife and the Marschallin, and she toyed with the idea of Brünnhilde, but decided against it. I seem to remember reading an interview with her in Opera Magazine, in which she said she worried she might compromise the essential quality of her voice and decided to stay a mezzo.


It is interesting to me that only Farrell, a soprano, uses shall we say a rich lower voice to any extent in this aria and she rarely did that. Most others tread lightly in the lower passages of this aria. I am sad I can't use her version as it is cut in half.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Another Ebe Stignani blog article - Note - this information has not been independently verified and may be opinion masquerading as fact - caveat lector.

*World War II and the Met Roster, 3: Ebe Stignani, the Absent Amneris*









World War II and the Met Roster, 3: Ebe Stignani, the Absent Amneris


In June 2014 we published two posts centered on the impact of World War II on the Met roster, the first on June 11 and the other on June 21 ...




operapost.blogspot.com





"We pick up the trail of Ebe Stignani and the Met in 1950, general manager Rudolf Bing’s first season. Verdi’s _Don Carlo_ was the opening night bill. Months before, Bing had asked his friend, conductor Alberto Erede, to suggest a cast worthy of his inaugural production. In his reply to Bing of January 18, 1950, Erede recommended Renata Tebaldi or Delia Rigal, in that order, for Elisabetta, Boris Christoff or Cesare Siepi for King Philip, Giuseppe Taddei for Rodrigo, Mario Del Monaco for Carlo. Tebaldi was busy in San Francisco; Christoff was contracted, then denied a visa for suspected Communist sympathies. Bing eventually chose Robert Merrill for Rodrigo and Jussi Björling for Carlo. For the Countess Eboli, Erede was explicit in rejecting Stignani because of her age (she was then only forty-seven and in phenomenal voice) and because he doubted that “her appearance would be acceptable for an American audience,” although, he conceded, “she is still very good.” In all likelihood "appearance" weighed heavily in the rejection. Erede’s choice, Fedora Barbieri, was awarded the role.

Right at the start, from the time of her 1925 debut, it was apparent that Stignani had one of the truly great voices of the 20th century. Toscanini engaged her for La Scala just a year later; she was a major star until her retirement in 1958. Featured in complete opera recordings of the 1930s and 1940s, she was the preferred mezzo opposite Maria Callas in many post-war albums, both pirated and commercial."


And the following is a very detailed career overview -





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Ebe Stignani


Surely, hers was the most voluminous voice among the Italian mezzo sopranos, and the most even in scale throughout its range. Every utterance spoke to a dignity of expression and a clarity of...



bob-opera.weebly.com


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Right at the start, from the time of her 1925 debut, it was apparent that Stignani had one of the truly great voices of the 20th century. Toscanini engaged her for La Scala just a year later; she was a major star until her retirement in 1958. Featured in complete opera recordings of the 1930s and 1940s, she was the preferred mezzo opposite Maria Callas in many post-war albums, both pirated and commercial."


This is also not quite true. On stage I'm pretty sure Simionato was a more regular partner, and on record it would be Barbieri.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This is also not quite true. On stage I'm pretty sure Simionato was a more regular partner, and on record it would be Barbieri.


I'm going to have to label these posts more clearly so that they can be readily identifiable as "blog entries" with the caveat "information not verified - caution: may be opinion masquerading as fact - read at your own risk".


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> I'm going to have to label these posts more clearly so that they can be readily identifiable as "blog entries" with the caveat "information not verified - read at your own risk".


Sorry. I realised they were posts you'd found elsewhere on line. I was just clarifying.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Interesting, then, that she shoud be paired here with Ludwig, another mezzo who briefly considered moving into soprano repertoire. She did sing Leonore of course, and also the Dyer's Wife and the Marschallin, and she toyed with the idea of Brünnhilde, but decided against it. I seem to remember reading an interview with her in Opera Magazine, in which she said she worried she might compromise the essential quality of her voice and decided to stay a mezzo.


Simionato sang soprano roles like Donna Elvira and Valentine and Giovanna Seymour which was written for a soprano. Some have said she was more of a falcon but her contralto depths make me think that like Stignani she was a mezzo with an amazing extension. Simoinato said she was studying the Trovatore Leonora but was advised against it as it would leave a hole in the middle, which in her case did develop in the lower middle. I noticed this as well in Stignani, Verrett, and Zajick.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> This is also not quite true. On stage I'm pretty sure Simionato was a more regular partner, and on record it would be Barbieri.


Stignani and Simionato both sang frequently with Callas in the 1950s and it is difficult to ascertain who sang with her more. Stignani retired in 1958. Simionato retired in 1966. By the late 50s Callas was not singing roles like Aida and La Gioconda and Trovatore with a major mezzo role on stage. By the early 60s she was mostly giving concerts. Siimonato during this time appeared with her in Medea and the Paris Normas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> Stignani and Simionato both sang frequently with Callas in the 1950s and it is difficult to ascertain who sang with her more. Stignani retired in 1958. Simionato retired in 1966. By the late 50s Callas was not singing roles like Aida and La Gioconda and Trovatore with a major mezzo role on stage. By the early 60s she was mostly giving concerts. Siimonato during this time appeared with her in Medea and the Paris Normas.


I once did a comparison of how many times Callas appeared with various mezzos and I'm pretty sure Simionato came out on top, possibly, as you say because she was still singing throughout Callas's career, whereas Stignani retired in 1958. The 1957 Covet Garden Norma was the last time they sang together. Visually they must have made a strange looking pair, with Callas now slim and glamorous and Stignani as supposedly the young novice priestess looking more like a dowager duchess.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I once did a comparison of how many times Callas appeared with various mezzos and I'm pretty sure Simionato came out on top, possibly, as you say because she was still singing throughout Callas's career, whereas Stignani retired in 1958. The 1957 Covet Garden Norma was the last time they sang together. Vsually they must have made a strange looking pair, with Callas now slim and glamorous and Stignani as supposedly the young novice priestess looking more like a dowager duchess.


There really must be times when theatrical illusion matters more than sheer voice. In this case maybe loyalty triumphed over both.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I once did a comparison of how many times Callas appeared with various mezzos and I'm pretty sure Simionato came out on top, possibly, as you say because she was still singing throughout Callas's career, whereas Stignani retired in 1958. The 1957 Covet Garden Norma was the last time they sang together. Vsually they must have made a strange looking pair, with Callas now slim and glamorous and Stignani as supposedly the young novice priestess looking more like a dowager duchess.


One of the critics in Opera magazine mentioned her “abbreviated figure,” and said something to the effect that no one would believe “so phlegmatic a virgin.” Oh, the English!


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Another Ebe Stignani blog article - Note - this information has not been independently verified and may be opinion masquerading as fact - caveat lector.
> 
> *World War II and the Met Roster, 3: Ebe Stignani, the Absent Amneris*
> 
> ...


And Eboli was always too high for Barbieri.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> One of the critics in Opera magazine mentioned her “abbreviated figure,” and said something to the effect that no one would believe “so phlegmatic a virgin.” Oh, the English!


"The Phlegmatic Virgin." Sounds like a lost opera by Sir Arthur Sullivan.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> "The Phlegmatic Virgin." Sounds like a lost opera by Sir Arthur Sullivan.


No doubt mentioning it here will cause its discovery, like “The Lisbon Traviata!”


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Christa Ludwig started her career in Darmstadt, the same opera house where my sister was house soprano for 15 years. Ludwig knew the general director well and she lived around the corner from one of my sister's colleagues in Vienna, who went to TCU with her and he sang at Bayreuth with Ludwig and he got me into Bayreuth at 15 for two operas. Small world.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Christa Ludwig started her career in Darmstadt, the same opera house where my sister was house soprano for 15 years. Ludwig knew the general director well and she lived around the corner from one of my sister's colleagues in Vienna, who went to TCU with her and he sang at Bayreuth with Ludwig and he got me into Bayreuth at 15 for two operas. Small world.


What is TCU?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> What is TCU?


Texas Christian University, a very prestigious and expensive school my sister got a scholarship to which required her to teach while working on her masters in music. Long interesting story: after she got her degree she won a Rockefeller Scholarship to go to the International Music School in Zurich. She said that Texas was more of a culture shock than Switzerland because back in the 60's Texans had so much money and Miss. was the poorest state in the Union! She sang in the Episcopal choir and all the women turned their diamonds around so as not to flash them at the congregation LOL. She wanted to give bad grades to some of the jocks in the music appreciation classes she taught but they told her they drove Ferraris, would fly home to their daddy's ranch in West Texas and their fathers donated tons to the school. She had a Hungarian voice teacher with Komodor dogs (OMG) and she was chosen to sing the soprano part in the Verdi Requiem and we drove out to hear it. Of course being a lyric it was ordinarily too big of a part but the auditorium was only for 1000 people so we heard her just fine. In the summer she worked for the Dallas Summer Musicals and we drove out for that. I thought Dallas was HEAVEN!!! The skyline sent me into orbit One last note. Our daddy did NOT want her to stay in Europe and she was begging for money to pursue her opera dream and he wouldn't part with any. he was not very controlling with me but he was with her. We had a very classy minister of our church that loaned my sister money on the condition that she pass that money on to someone else in need someday. I'll never forget him really practicing what he stood for!!! Not too long after that she got her 15 year gig in Darmstadt as their house soprano. She retired to be a mother and taught students who drove all the way to see her from all over Germany. She really emphasized a completely unified range with no apparent registers . Although she sang everything she really was sought out for three things: Mozart, Bach and because she was a very quick study in case she had to fill in and learn a role in just a few days. She knew Helen Donath, Martina Arroyo and Grace Bumbry- the later two from Zurich where she had a black soprano roommate who knew them.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> I have a feeling people are going to say Stignani sounds elderly etc. but I think her voice is very beautiful here.


To me she sounded totally young. 

Not that I know the features of the young voice. But she sounded soprano-ish.

(I couldn't handle the Italian plus the background noise, so I stopped earlier, but it is not her fault.)


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Well, Stignani doesn't seem here neither phlegmatic, nor virgin. They both show enough, what and how Dalilah would do to Samson. Though I often prefer lower voices and don't distinguish who doesn't sing anything in the upper register, here I choose Ludwig, because all has coinsided for me here: the voice, dramatic qualities, my sympathy to a singer.


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