# What is this junk?



## Gordontrek

Decided to listen to some cookie-cutter music. Came across this: 




What kind of crap is this? Did he stick his baton in syrup?


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## Cosmos

Ugh if this is the same guy who played Beethoven's 9th at half speed, I want to know who is demanding these languid interpretations of music is so I can tell those people to cut their postmodernist humor out.


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## Vasks

LOL! Not only doesn't the conductor know what "allegro" means, but also what "molto" means!! Buy that guy a dictionary


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## joen_cph

His Mozart 25:


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## Vasks

Maybe his orchestra can't play fast without making a lot of mistakes...LOL!!


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## Manxfeeder

Think of what poor oboe is thinking at the one-minute mark. "It's just a whole note . . . o-o-o-h, nuts!"


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## Sloe

Usually I don´t notice the difference between conductors they are after all skilled people who know what they are doing otherwise they would not be hired but this was really bad and strange.


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## joen_cph

The complete 40th symphony with Cobra lasts ...... 70 mins:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5FDE1922863C1830


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## Fugue Meister

He seems to be taking the Gouldian approach to Mozart.


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## Pugg

Perhaps it's helping if you can't sleep


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## joen_cph

Pugg said:


> Perhaps it's helping if you can't sleep


Especially due to the persistent lack of contrasts in his style ...


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## MoonlightSonata

_That's_ what he thinks is "molto allegro?"


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## Crudblud

Given that every performance of the 40th I've heard till now sounds pretty much exactly the same, I'm glad there is someone doing things differently, even if it doesn't line up with the composer's intent. So it's not the 40th you've heard a hundred times before, there are plenty of recordings to satisfy the desire for the same old same old that exists to some extent in every listener, why get worked up over this one recording? For what it's worth, I'd rather have this than yet another indistinguishable recording to add to the pile marked "redundant."


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## dsphipps100

Good grief, that's ridiculous. He needs to get an office job.


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## Alfacharger

He is in good company!


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## Gordontrek

Crudblud said:


> Given that every performance of the 40th I've heard till now sounds pretty much exactly the same, I'm glad there is someone doing things differently, even if it doesn't line up with the composer's intent. So it's not the 40th you've heard a hundred times before, there are plenty of recordings to satisfy the desire for the same old same old that exists to some extent in every listener, why get worked up over this one recording? For what it's worth, I'd rather have this than yet another indistinguishable recording to add to the pile marked "redundant."


No one's saying there's anything wrong with trying something new. But holy cow, you don't desecrate such a landmark piece of music by cutting the tempo in half. It's marked molto allegro for a reason is it not? I appreciate Maestro Cobra trying to give us something novel. But he failed. Miserably. 
Surely there has to be a better way to revive overplayed pieces such as this without cutting the tempo in half?


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## hpowders

Ha! Ha! Sounds like a death march!!


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## Sloe

Gordontrek said:


> No one's saying there's anything wrong with trying something new. But holy cow, you don't desecrate such a landmark piece of music by cutting the tempo in half. It's marked molto allegro for a reason is it not? I appreciate Maestro Cobra trying to give us something novel. But he failed. Miserably.
> Surely there has to be a better way to revive overplayed pieces such as this without cutting the tempo in half?


If some people like it let them enjoy it.


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## Nereffid

Obviously it's the wrong way to play it, and taken as a whole I don't like it, but there are still some lovely moments in there. I like the first half-minute a lot, because the slow tempo still suits the music (or vice versa?), but it then falls apart - and it's like that throughout.


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## Crudblud

Gordontrek said:


> No one's saying there's anything wrong with trying something new. But holy cow, you don't desecrate such a landmark piece of music by cutting the tempo in half. It's marked molto allegro for a reason is it not? I appreciate Maestro Cobra trying to give us something novel. But he failed. Miserably.
> Surely there has to be a better way to revive overplayed pieces such as this without cutting the tempo in half?


Taking a leap into unknown territory is always fraught with the possibility of failure, whether or not this counts as a failure, well, I get bored enough with the 40th at regular speed, let alone half, so I'm not the one to judge, but obviously someone liked it well enough for it to get this far and clearly people find it interesting enough to discuss it, at least if mockery counts as discussion. I guess the key difference between my view on this and yours is that I'm not someone who uses words like "desecrate" when a performance is not to my liking, that kind of religious pedestalisation of composers and their work doesn't sit too well with my stomach acids.


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## dzc4627

Hahahhahahahahaha


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## geralmar

Vasks said:


> Maybe his orchestra can't play fast without making a lot of mistakes...LOL!!


That may actually be the case in the following instance:


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## Vasks

In the end, there is always a tempo point beyond which the music no longer reflects the mood that the composer intended. And I believe a composer's intention is something not to be taken lightly. And I know first hand.

Forty years ago I wrote a brass quintet selection that is to be played at Metronome Marking (Quarter Note) = 168. And for its premiere it was played at that speed. A few months later at a annual Brass Festival it was performed at MM = 70. I was thoroughly embarrassed because the results (while note perfect) totally distorted its emotional impact and therefore the audience members were deceived. I felt like saying to them what that Esurance commercial of last year had for its the punch line


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## manyene

The tempo marking is Molto Allegro (two on the bar): the actual speed was a(slow) Andante and the pulse was 4 in the bar. Just wrong. It reminds me of that glacial Bernstein version of Nimrod, which simply ignored Elgar's metronome mark. I didn't bother to check the speed Mr Cobra adopted for the Andante movement in K550 - maybe the orchestra fell asleep at that point.


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## Gordontrek

manyene said:


> The tempo marking is Molto Allegro (two on the bar): the actual speed was a(slow) Andante and the pulse was 4 in the bar. Just wrong. It reminds me of that glacial Bernstein version of Nimrod, which simply ignored Elgar's metronome mark.


Would that be this one: 



That really is quite slow, "glacial" as you put it. The difference, I think, between this Bernstein sample and Cobra is that Bernstein's "glacialness" is actually somewhat tolerable. Cobra might have cut the tempo in half like he does for just about everything.


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## CyrilWashbrook

Maximianno Cobra's modus operandi is to take a bunch of works and drag them out to half speed, often using synthesised instruments. I don't think there is anything especially interesting or inventive about it.

In response to some discussion up-thread, Cobra's version is certainly different from just about every other rendition, but you could say the same thing about a recording made by auto-tuning the sound of a toilet flushing. (Although I would probably find a toilet flush version more engaging.)


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## Guest

For those who are unaware, Cobra is the sworn enemy of G.I. Joe. This must be why.


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## KenOC

nathanb said:


> For those who are unaware, Cobra is the sworn enemy of G.I. Joe. This must be why.


By gosh, that explains a lot!


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## joen_cph

Gordontrek said:


> The difference, I think, between this Bernstein sample and Cobra is that Bernstein's "glacialness" is actually somewhat tolerable. Cobra might have cut the tempo in half like he does for just about everything.


Also that Cobra generally seems to avoid architectural, build-up contrasts and climaxes in the music, to a very large degree. A very flat glacier, that is.


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## Guest

Cobra insists his research into tempi justifies his slower pacing. Do we know how speeds were set at the time this symphony was written?

http://maximiannocobra.net/main/en/articles/tempus-dossier/124-tempo-space-and-music.html


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## violadude

MacLeod said:


> Cobra insists his research into tempi justifies his slower pacing. Do we know how speeds were set at the time this symphony was written?
> 
> http://maximiannocobra.net/main/en/articles/tempus-dossier/124-tempo-space-and-music.html


There's no way. If this is the tempo for a "molto allegro" marking, that means that movements marked "largo" or "adagio" would be played even about twice as slow as that. It would totally destroy the momentum of any slow movement and would make no musical sense.


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## Fat Bob

This really is appalling stuff. If you fancy a laugh, look up this guy's recordings on Amazon and check out the customer reviews. Predictably enough there are a couple of people who give every recording a 5 star rating - with pretty much identical wording no matter what piece he is demolishing - but there is one chap by the name of Bernard Michael O'Hanlon who seems to have set himself the challenge of listening to as many of these abominations as possible. As far as this performance is concerned he says: "But beyond good and evil and whatever bell curves you care to nominate, there lies the domain of Maximiano Cobra. Who has the wherewithal to withstand his onslaughts? Here, he annihilates K 550. Not one stone is left upon another. Brace yourself."
And so on in the same vein.


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## CypressWillow

In a word: Yikes! My ears are bleeding. 
Oh wait, I figured it out. He belongs in the pantheon of musical immortals right up (down) there with Florence Foster Jenkins. 
I would have said no one and nothing could ever make me listen to Andre Rieu ever again, but next to this, Rieu is - well, I can't go on. Just overcome.
Is there an emoticon for WTF?


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## hpowders

Looks like Otto Klemperer is alive and well.

The worst part is I can't turn the freakin' thing off! Worse than a computer virus!


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## Lyricus

Oh, please, such exaggerations! It's not my cup of tea, but I'm not upset at it. Some prefer ridiculously bad music, and therefore I'm glad that someone's making it for them. Could be worse!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT

If you go to the settings in the YouTube player (icon bottom-right in the shape of a cog-wheel), and change the speed to 1.5 it becomes just about bearable.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Why not play the music at this tempo? After all, it only adds to the variety of our perception of Mozart's masterpiece. Imo, there's nothing bad about this. A bit unusual, but it has its own beauty.


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## Gordontrek

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Why not play the music at this tempo? After all, it only adds to the variety of our perception of Mozart's masterpiece. Imo, there's nothing bad about this. A bit unusual, but it has its own beauty.


Well, it kind of runs completely counter to all of Mozart's indications and intentions. I have to wonder if Cobra does this to attract attention. 
I suppose one can appreciate this music, if you have incredible patience. Making a Mozart symphony as long as a Bruckner is more than a "bit" unusual.


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## brotagonist

I just listened to Bernstein's Brahms Symphony One with the Vienna Philharmonic, which is some minutes slower in the longer movements than is customary, but it seems to add to the elegance and majesty of the music, but this is taken to the extreme, I'd say. While I agree with those who say, "What's wrong with trying something new?" this is so slow, to my expectation, that it appears to lose coherence. Perhaps I'm just too rooted in expectation?


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## Truckload

As an educational experience the very slow tempo allows the listener time to appreciate and think about the voice leading and harmonic motion. I enjoyed listening to the Mozart 40th performed this slowly once. I might return to it again to reflect upon the beauty of the composition details. 

But I would not listen to it performed this slowly as a performance, and I doubt the accuracy of the argument that this was truly the tempo intended by Mozart.


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## drpraetorus

Try listening to his Beethoven 9. It is a full half hour longer than the others on youtube. His presto in the 4th movement is barely moderato and is just a bit faster than the end of the 3rd movement. The scherzo is a languid walk in the park. There is value in listening to different interpretations but his are just different because he says so.


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## Gordontrek

Ahh!! He has more! You ever have that strange thing where something's so bad that you can't stop listening?
Lacrimosa (this one gave me a much needed hearty laugh): 



Der Holle Rach: 



 (not half tempo but still very slow and gets slower through the piece, poor singer)
Beethoven 5 (this isn't even a real orchestra, it sounds completely computerized. I guess he couldn't keep the real one together!):


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## Sloe

Cobra conducting Beethoven´s seventh symphony:






It is from the beginning of his career so he had not learned to make it really slow yet.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

This junk is immersed selfishness f.ex.


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## Zhdanov

Crudblud said:


> every performance of the 40th I've heard till now sounds pretty much exactly the same,


only if performed by same orchestra under same conductor maybe.


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## Polyphemus

dsphipps100 said:


> Good grief, that's ridiculous. He needs to get an office job.


He tried but could not get an interview after submitting a 5 volume (leather bound) application.


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