# Seeking Mahler Recommendations



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I am trying to decide on a Mahler box set. Can I solicit some opinions?

The ones that leap out to me are Bernstein, Boulez, Abbado, and Rattle. Also under consideration is the DG "People's Edition" that picks and chooses between several conductors/orchestras.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I think everyone has their own favourites, so that won't be much help. I would throw Kubelik, Haitink and Gielen into the mix of candidates as well.

Try to get a box that has a completed version of the 10th symphony, Das Lied von der Erde, and the three main song cycles (Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckertlieder).


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> I think everyone has their own favourites, so that won't be much help. I would throw Kubelik, Haitink and Gielen into the mix of candidates as well.
> 
> Try to get a box that has a completed version of the 10th symphony, Das Lied von der Erde, and the three main song cycles (Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckertlieder).


That's helpful, trying to get a complete(ish) representation. Thank you.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Many discussions on this topic here on TC. I voted Boulez and I would like to suggest Chailly/RCO for an all-round Mahler cycle and when choosing Abbado, make sure you get the last Lucerne cycle (alas, only on blu ray video) or otherwise his DG/BPO/Lucerne cycle on CD. But eventually, once you become involved, you will want to choose your own set of individual symphonies.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I love the Bernstein/NYPO. I just got it last month, i’m new to Mahler too. I also love what I’ve heard of Kubelik and that was my second choice. Abbado is another one I hope to get somewhere down the line.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I would go with Klempirolli - the only problem being that there is no 8th or 10th and each of the two versions of the 7th have issues.

1, 3 - Halle
2 - Bavarian RSO
4, 5, 6 DLVDE, Ruckert, Kindertotenlieder, Wayfarer - (New) Philharmonia
9 - Berlin PO


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I voted "other", as Rafael Kubelík on DGG, Michael Gielen, and Georg Solti are better than the ones you've listed, in my humble opinion, naturally!

Gielen's set satisfies ArtRock's very sensible suggestion of including his other major works, apart from Das klagende Lied. Boulez deliberately avoids No.10. Bertini has Das Lied von der Erde, and is a superb set, all in all.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I voted 'other' as if I was buying a complete cycle it would probably be Bertini or Gielen, who are both consistently good in all symphonies (and excellent in many). See the post above too.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Merl said:


> I voted 'other' as if I was buying a complete cycle it would probably be Bertini or Gielen, who are both consistently good in all symphonies (and excellent in many). See the post above too.


I'm with Merl - Gielen or Bertini if you're having only one set. Tennstedt would be another contender.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> I'm with Merl - Gielen or Bertini if you're having only one set. Tennstedt would be another contender.


You must be a mind reader. I was about to edit my last post to include Tennstedt. Lol


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Lenny here....................


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

It all depends on how you like your Mahler. I like several of the sets mentioned in the poll and discussion (except perhaps Bertini, which I never got on with and sold). I currently in a Gielen and Jansons phase and (currently) could imagine either of them as an excellent set. But I do like the Bernstein NYPO and a couple from his later set and I like many of the Boulez (the opposite of Bernstein) versions very much indeed. Becca's take on the problem works well, too.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I forgot about Jansons. I like that a lot too. Thanks Enthusiast.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> It all depends on how you like your Mahler. I like several of the sets mentioned in the poll and discussion (except perhaps Bertini, which I never got on with and sold). I currently in a Gielen and Jansons phase and (currently) could imagine either of them as an excellent set. But I do like the Bernstein NYPO and a couple from his later set and I like many of the Boulez (the opposite of Bernstein) versions very much indeed. Becca's take on the problem works well, too.


Generally speaking, I like my orchestral music uptempo, sweeping, and bombastic. I like Karajan's live Mahler 9th, for instance.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> I think everyone has their own favourites, so that won't be much help. I would throw Kubelik, Haitink and Gielen into the mix of candidates as well.
> 
> Try to get a box that has a completed version of the 10th symphony, Das Lied von der Erde, and the three main song cycles (Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, Kindertotenlieder, Rueckertlieder).


The song cycles are indeed a worthwile addition. As to the 10th, you rule out many great cycles if you want the reconstructed tenth included. Many of the great Mahler conductors (Haitink, Abbado, Boulez) just don't see it as part of Mahler's work, but merely as Deryck Cookes first symphony. Personally, I also think one can do without it.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

For sweeping and bombastic, I'd go Tennstedt. For _uptempo_, sweeping and bombastic, lately I've been recommending James Levine. Tennstedt has DLVDE, but no song cycles and only a 1st Movement of the Tenth (but also live versions of the 5th, 6th and 7th in addition to the studio takes). On the other hand, Levine has a full Tenth, but no DLVDE and no song cycles, as well as no 2nd or 8th. I don't roll with Lenny or Solti, very often. The next Mahler box set I ever buy will be Boulez. I also have a spot in my heart for Abbado with the Lucerne, but I think that's DVD only...?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm kind of an outlier, because I prefer Abbado's Mahler. As I've said other places before, Abbado doesn't swing you around like a dog with a rabbit. But that's me. 

If I had the opportunity, I wouldn't turn down Gielen or Bertini.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

If I could only have one set it would have to be Bertini. There's not a dud in the set, most are superb. All are well played and the sound is excellent. Then top it off with his song cycle set. The only thing missing is Das Klagende Lied.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Kubelik, though I don't think any complete set does the music full justice.

Choices for individual symphonies:

1 - Barbirolli (Dutton)
2 - Klemperer (EMI studio)
3 - Horenstein (Unicorn)
4 - Horenstein (Classics for Pleasure)
5, 6 & 9 - Barbirolli (EMI)
7 - Klemperer (EMI)
8 - Bernstein (DG)


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> For sweeping and bombastic, I'd go Tennstedt. For _uptempo_, sweeping and bombastic, lately I've been recommending James Levine. Tennstedt has DLVDE, but no song cycles and only a 1st Movement of the Tenth (but also live versions of the 5th, 6th and 7th in addition to the studio takes). *On the other hand, Levine has a full Tenth, but no DLVDE* and no song cycles, as well as no 2nd or 8th. I don't roll with Lenny or Solti, very often. The next Mahler box set I ever buy will be Boulez. I also have a spot in my heart for Abbado with the Lucerne, but I think that's DVD only...?


Actually he did this one (a good performance btw):


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Tennstedt set provides a lot of music for the bargain price even if the Das Lied is not a very good recording. The Gielen is great if you can find it at a good price. Top notch sound quality and orchestra playing, but he strikes me as a bit on the cool side. And the remastered Bernstein/NYP set contains some classic performances. The Boulez Lieder disc on DG is a great addition if you choose a strictly symphonic set. As far as a complete 10th, I like Dausgaard/Seattle Symphony. But the single movement Adagio included in most sets is the most important movement to hear.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

It's Boulez for me followed by Gielen. I also love Sinopoli's Mahler.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

You know what's really maddening? Neither Sony or DG has put together a complete Bernstein set. They each have the symphonies. But he recorded DLVDE and the songs, both in orchestral and piano versions. Why hasn't anyone done this? Perplexing.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Thank you all for the recommendations. I appreciate it!

I ended up going with the DG People's Edition, because it provides a sampler of many of the performances you've mentioned. Namely: 1 Kubelik, 2 Mehta, 3 Abbado, 4 Karajan, 5 Bernstein, 6 Bernstein, 7 Abbado, 8 Solti, 9 Giulini, and 10 Chailly.

I figure I'll have to supplement at some point, but perhaps this is a good sampler to familiarize myself with approaches (as mentioned, I already have Karajan's live 9th).


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bernstein (twice) and this one please.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Thank you all for the recommendations. I appreciate it!
> 
> I ended up going with the DG People's Edition, because it provides a sampler of many of the performances you've mentioned. Namely: 1 Kubelik, 2 Mehta, 3 Abbado, 4 Karajan, 5 Bernstein, 6 Bernstein, 7 Abbado, 8 Solti, 9 Giulini, and 10 Chailly.
> 
> I figure I'll have to supplement at some point, but perhaps this is a good sampler to familiarize myself with approaches (as mentioned, I already have Karajan's live 9th).


I didn't realise what was in that DGG "People's Edition". Not a bad choice actually, given the limitation of having to be Universal. There are some stand-out excellent recordings there, hopefully the Abbado ones are his earlier, Chicago, recordings? Trouble is, if you end up getting hooked (addicted is perhaps a better word?) it will mean some unnecessary duplication....


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

For Mahler I mostly stay with singles, and I have a pleasing collection (for me). The only Mahler box I own is Rattle/EMI. The price was right and I liked the samples I heard.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Thank you all for the recommendations. I appreciate it!
> 
> I ended up going with the DG People's Edition, because it provides a sampler of many of the performances you've mentioned. Namely: 1 Kubelik, 2 Mehta, 3 Abbado, 4 Karajan, 5 Bernstein, 6 Bernstein, 7 Abbado, 8 Solti, 9 Giulini, and 10 Chailly.
> 
> I figure I'll have to supplement at some point, but perhaps this is a good sampler to familiarize myself with approaches (as mentioned, I already have Karajan's live 9th).


That is a great idea, and you'll have ended up with some great versions. Kubelik is the best 1st of the few I've heard. I don't like the 8th but from what I can tell Solti did a great job of it (it's the best of the few I've heard). I'd be skeptical about Karajan's 4th, but other than that it sounds like all those should be good. Report back in this thread or elsewhere once you've heard some of these, I'd be curious for a review.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Generally speaking, I like my orchestral music uptempo, sweeping, and bombastic. I like Karajan's live Mahler 9th, for instance.


In a way you are describing Mahler! I avoided the Boulez recordings for quite a while because all the reviews said it was low on "emotion" which seemed to me to be a necessity in Mahler ... but when I listened I didn't think anything was missing. The music was there, including the emotion. So Bernstein seems to fit your description but you could easily find all the uptempo, sweeping and bombastic qualities you need in most of the others. Certainly the Karajan 9th - the only Karajan Mahler recording I really enjoy - is not especially bombastic or sweeping compared to others. Still, perhaps you will not want to choose Kubelik, Neumann or even Boulez for this first set. Barbirolli can sometimes be a little slow (notably in the 6th) but he makes up for it! I feel you should enjoy many of the other sets recommended. Perhaps price (often the main advantage for buying a set of works you don't have) is the critical question. That and consistency.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

starthrower said:


> The Gielen is great if you can find it at a good price.


I don't remember where I bought my copy, but it's pretty inexpensive at Amazon.co.uk:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Michael-Gielen-Vol-1988-2014-Symphonies/dp/B073LZ9H9L

The Bertini set, if you can still find it, has the benefit of a first-class Das Lied von der Erde.

The reality is that it's nearly impossible to recommend a single set - I probably have ten complete sets, possibly more, and would probably burn to death due to indecision, if I had to choose one when my house caught fire.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> In a way you are describing Mahler! I avoided the Boulez recordings for quite a while because all the reviews said it was low on "emotion" which seemed to me to be a necessity in Mahler ... but when I listened I didn't think anything was missing. The music was there, including the emotion.


That's because much of that emotion is Mahler's, written into the music.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Everybody's taste in Mahler is different, and it varies work by work. A set is fine for starters, but eventuqlly as you losten more widely, you'll collect a "set" of individual recordings thaqt will fill your personaql bill.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Solti/CSO......


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Heck148 said:


> Solti/CSO......


It appears that many are critical of Solti's Mahler-perhaps some Mahlerphiles here are more attuned to the "why" of this phenomenon-but I find these two to be a very effective composer-conductor combo. His Resurrection with the London Symphony is amazing, and the great soloists really steal the show. His cycle that's available on Decca, is that all with Chicago, or are there London recordings included?


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Tennstedt Gielen or Kubelik

Of the ones listed I'd take Abbado


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

flamencosketches said:


> It appears that many are critical of Solti's Mahler-perhaps some Mahlerphiles here are more attuned to the "why" of this phenomenon-but I find these two to be a very effective composer-conductor combo. His Resurrection with the London Symphony is amazing, and the great soloists really steal the show. His cycle that's available on Decca, is that all with Chicago, or are there London recordings included?


Solti/CSO Mahler is dynamite - really high-powered..I believe his complete Decca set is with Chicago - he did record 1,2 and 9 with LSO, and I think there is/was a #4 with AmsterdamCGBO.

I heard the famous Solti/CSO #5 in Carnegie Hall 3/70....amazing concert, greatest live concert I've ever heard....really astounding!! audience went totally nuts - Standing O for at least 30 minutes....Solti finally had to pull the concertmaster, and other players off the stage - "Thank you!! but we have a plane to catch" lol!!


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

NLAdriaan said:


> The song cycles are indeed a worthwile addition. As to the 10th, you rule out many great cycles if you want the reconstructed tenth included. Many of the great Mahler conductors (Haitink, Abbado, Boulez) just don't see it as part of Mahler's work, but merely as Deryck Cookes first symphony. Personally, I also think one can do without it.


Although the 10th was incomplete and therefore one could argue that it is not part of the legitimate Mahler canon surely the similarity of Deryk Cooke's completion to other completions precludes the possibility of it being Cooke's Symphony.

Anyways, I would go with the people's edition. If you go with any one conductor they're likely not going to deliver a great performance of at least one of the symphonies. Alternatively, DG released a complete edition of Mahler's works a while back. It also included various conductors and orchestras but tended to skew towards the "critics' choice" rather than the "peoples' choice".


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

I like Solti's 6th. When I was buying Mahler I must have spent a month looking at reviews and finally decided on this single CD.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

haydnguy said:


> I like Solti's 6th. When I was buying Mahler I must have spent a month looking at reviews and finally decided on this single CD.


same here...Solti's M6 is brutal, vicious even...but he makes it work...it is really quite crushing...great recording, with some stunningly fine playing...


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

As far as I am concerned, the only drawback with the Solti set is the absence of any vestiges of the Tenth. And I think his Third is slightly lower voltage than the best recordings I know. Oh, and I prefer his older Resurrection, and especially prefer his older Ninth, which is a giant of a recording.

Other than that it is an excellent set from start to finish. One of my top three or four cycles.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

So I have listened to the Kubelik 1st and Mehta 2nd. They are both excellent (I cannot compare them to other interpretations.) They both sound great, but the second is in a league of its own. The VPO is recorded with terrific miking and they play wonderfully.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

^I love the Kubelik 1st with the Bavarian Radio Symphony. Alongside the Reiner/Chicago Mahler 4th, it's the recording that got me into Mahler.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

The Abbado 3rd is a very nice recording. But OOOOOOOMG why is this symphony still going? The !st movement (33 minutes in) totally ends with a climax. 

Someone needed to tell Mahler "no."


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

This should definitely be part of any Mahler collection:









It is a truly unique recording, as it was recorded live and you can hear the difference with the more controlled studio recordings. This recording somehow started the last phase of Karajan's career, which also resulted in intense Bruckner's 7 & 8 with the VPO.

I have heard many Mahler 9's, both live and recorded in wonderful readings, but this one really stands out. And I am not at all a Karajan-fan, to the contrary. This recording was mentioned many times by many here on TC. But if you didn't hear it yet, just give it a try.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

NLAdriaan said:


> This should definitely be part of any Mahler collection:
> 
> View attachment 120023
> 
> ...


Yes, a truly excellent recording. I can't yet compare it to others (I haven't gotten to Guilini/CSO in the People's Edition), but the sound quality is excellent and the music is involving.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

MatthewWeflen said:


> Someone needed to tell Mahler "no."


I'm glad no-one did.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> I'm glad no-one did.


I'm not saying the music isn't worthwhile, because it is. But cramming it into one piece is grossly self-indulgent.


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