# Free Improvisation



## rbacce (Nov 3, 2018)

So, I'm a newcomer at Talk Classical. But I noticed there're no threads about Free Improvisation. Anyone here into FI?

For those who're new to it: Free Improvisation is a musical genre which emerged roughly by the late 1950s, but it's still practiced nowadays. It is basically a kind of musical improvisation which does not refer to any specific idiom (such as blues, jazz, ragas or baroque). Generally, in FI performances there are no pre established musical texts.

It's a mixture between afro american free jazz (Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra, Coltrane and so on) and american/european avant garde XXth century classical music (such as Stockhausen, Cage and electroacoustic music). It's usually linked to political issues, being commonly refered to as a form of musical anarchy. By focusing on real time collective creation, musicians such as Eddie Prévost state that Free Improvisation requires a kind of ethics which is similar to what happens (or should happen) in communism.

I believe the most prominents individuals and groups of FI are british, such as Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Eddie Prévost and John Tilbury:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

An excerpt from an entirely improvised concert.






Oregon has been doing this for years.






As has the Art Ensemble






And the rock groups King Crimson, Henry Cow


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

How can free of form be pure in a natural way ? First efforts appear to be cut-and-paste . Trance can get you beyond that . I think getting beyond trance just takes time - endurance , staying faithful . You can be more fully relational to what's going on when you ain't tranced-out .


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## rbacce (Nov 3, 2018)

starthrower said:


> An excerpt from an entirely improvised concert.
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Nice. Didn't know about these. Thank you for sharing.



Tikoo Tuba said:


> How can free of form be pure in a natural way ? First efforts appear to be cut-and-paste . Trance can get you beyond that . I think getting beyond trance just takes time - endurance , staying faithful . You can be more fully relational to what's going on when you ain't tranced-out .


Yes, I believe you said the right word -- it's about trance. Some authors and musicians have susttained that improvised music demands a specific understanding of time, one in which there's an intensified consciousness of present moment. This is pretty similar to what mystic traditions assert about time, such as Buddhism and Sufism.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

Can the artist be innocent of pre-determination , having every moment an inspiration and a revelation ? I think it helps to be aware and thoughtfully responsive to anarchy in the environment .

I once asked such an artist , a pianist ; how yooz do that so free ? The reply was ' know every tone on the instrument , have your fingers skillful in all the variety you can learn or invent - then think out-loud with that ' .

I think it takes courage .


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The late pianist Richard Grossman led a trio that specialized in totally free on-the-spot improvisation, and I have long treasured his recordings. Hat Hut features at least two of them, good ones at that:















A sample of his efforts:


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## rbacce (Nov 3, 2018)

SONNET CLV said:


> The late pianist Richard Grossman led a trio that specialized in totally free on-the-spot improvisation, and I have long treasured his recordings. Hat Hut features at least two of them, good ones at that:
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Wow, never heard of him before! I loved it.

Reminds me of AMM, Alexander von Schilppenbach and Derek Bailey.


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

I see Evan Parker mentioned above. He is on a fine improvisational album with Barry Guy, Paul Lytton, and pianist Marilyn Crispell, _Natives and Aliens_. I'm not sure whether this group recorded anything else, but this album is outstanding.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

A great set if you're into free jazz and improv. I just got my copy yesterday. In addition to the Art Ensemble albums there are CDs by Evan Parker, Roscoe Mitchell, New Directions band w/ Jack DeJohnette, and a few Lester Bowie albums. The set includes a 300 page book with essays and album graphics.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

The OP rightly mentioned the British, such as Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Eddie Prévost and John Tilbury.










This group has Jamie Muir, who was present on some King Crimson recordings. You can hear King Crimson venture into free territory on cuts like Requiem from 'Beat,' and on "Moonchild" from the first album.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

John Surman is another "free" jazz British player, and after hearing this anthology, I realize that he influenced Soft Machine.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I have a copy of that out of print Surman set. It's a very interesting set featuring well recorded sessions. The album with John McLaughlin has recently been re-issued. There's another great CD on Cuneiform entitled Way Back When which expands on the theme in the opening track to Where Fortune Smiles.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I have the CD reissue of the double album of _Trio_ material which John Surman recorded with Barre Phillips and Stu Martin in 1970 - I'd actually forgotten that I had this so I might have to give it a belated play before too long.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

rbacce said:


> So, I'm a newcomer at Talk Classical. But I noticed there're no threads about Free Improvisation. Anyone here into FI?
> 
> For those who're new to it: Free Improvisation is a musical genre which emerged roughly by the late 1950s, but it's still practiced nowadays. It is basically a kind of musical improvisation which does not refer to any specific idiom (such as blues, jazz, ragas or baroque). Generally, in FI performances there are no pre established musical texts.
> 
> ...


Accepting your word that it is in fact music but completely improvised so, being as it has no particular genre does it have any basic rules and if so what are they?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

The rule is "freedom," I would say. When Ornette Coleman did his "free" improvisation, he was basically improvising melodically, so this freed it from harmonic constraints of chord changes. This is also what characterized much 12-tone music; it was melodically-based.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

I haven't found a shortage of interest in free jazz here. Just a shortage of people how know how it's done, technically, not in layman's terms. That includes my own knowledge which is confined to traditional jazz harmony.

These days I listen to everything Henry Threadgill puts out... much of his music is composed nowadays... moving beyond pure improvisation without losing the spirit of the freedom... he even swings too...

I just watched the film Looking For Ornette two nights ago. Not much of the real Ornette (that's why they're looking) but there are some superb performances by some of his disciples...

I like that the avant garde has made room for some great guitarists. Saw Charles Lloyd this summer with both Julian Lage and Bill Frisell, plus Dave Holland, who may be my favorite bass player along with William Parker. One of last year's best shows was a duo with Holland and Kevin Eubanks, with long long sections of improv...

Listening at the moment to the other Parker, Evan, on his disc that is included in the AEC box.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

millionrainbows said:


> The rule is "freedom," I would say. When Ornette Coleman did his "free" improvisation, he was basically improvising melodically, so this freed it from harmonic constraints of chord changes. This is also what characterized much 12-tone music; it was melodically-based.


You see millionrainbows this is where I am confused I have to admit that I never came across 'free jazz' when I was playing, all jazz that I am familiar with improvises on melody as well as meter also harmony, admittedly chord sequences are kept unless a change is signaled or introduced by the soloist or leader, otherwise how can an ens play together if the soloist goes off on a random meander of unrelated notes etc, they could of course play as a drone effect.


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

A few to start:

Paul Lytton - _?!_
AMM - _The Inexhaustible Document_
Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink - s/t
Evan Parker -_ Hasselt_
Paul Rutherford - _The Gentle Harm of The Bourgeoisie_
London Improvisers Orchestra - _Improvisations For GeorgeRiste_


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## nobilmente (Dec 18, 2018)

I have played in a couple of free improv meet-ups, and it's good fun. I think it's about being really present, careful listening, and being very open to what's happening. I'd say the core of it is participating, I can't really imagine wanting to listen to a recording of it. In my experience I think would have appreciated it even more if there had been a more formal agreement on an outline tonal framework for the improv, as otherwise it effectively becomes purely atonal and about the sounds rather than the structure.

There are some interesting partial improv works which explore the boundaries, e.g. Riley's _In C_ and ten Holt's _Canto Ostinato_.


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## rbacce (Nov 3, 2018)

Wow, so many interesting contributions here to the topic. I'll listen more carefully to the music posted here.



Dan Ante said:


> Accepting your word that it is in fact music but completely improvised so, being as it has no particular genre does it have any basic rules and if so what are they?


Sorry I took so long to answer. Free improvisation, as it is understood traditionally, is characterized as a non idiomatic music. The rules, in this case, would be to improvise collectively in such a way that idiomatic references (such as jazz or blues) are always deconstructed within the music discourse itself. As it was said before by someone, it requires an intense focus on what is being done. There're no previously stablished strucutre, or maybe there is a structure, but it only reveals itself after the performance. On the other hand, some composer have used free improvisation along with composed music, such as Cornelius Cardew and Richard Barrett.

Where I live in, there're a growing number of improvisation groups, including two in which I play. And some of these groups are completely different in comparison to others. In that sense, I believe there're no rigid rules as to how to employ improvisation. You can write down a guided improvisation, or improvise based on a poem, or maybe set a number of scales or cells in which the improviser should base his/her music etc. There're many possibilities.


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## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

rbacce said:


> ..... some composer have used free improvisation along with composed music


Steve Lacy coined the term "poly-free" in this case.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Jay said:


> Steve Lacy coined the term "poly-free" in this case.


I have a bunch of Lacy albums. Blinks: Zurich Live 1983 features some phenomenal playing.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

JCOA(Jazz Composers Orchestra of America) released a couple of great albums in the late sixties. Also Mike Westbrook's double album - Marching Song is pretty essential listening. Cecil Taylor can be a extremely "free" and for the uninitiated, challenging!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Classic free jazz from a group of heavyweights-a real free for all.






*Left channel*
Ornette Coleman - alto saxophone
Don Cherry - pocket trumpet
Scott LaFaro - bass
Billy Higgins - drums

*Right channel*
Eric Dolphy - bass clarinet
Freddie Hubbard - trumpet
Charlie Haden - bass
Ed Blackwell - drums


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Free jazz (_Abstract_ his third album) with Jamaican saxophonist Joe Harriott... Free jazz does not necessarily mean that nothing is arranged or no 'head' is played before the free improvisation. Loved this album! For me, the best free jazz never sacrificed swing... and here was passionate playing by the horns and a swinging rhythm section. The entire album can be found on YT.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Dan Ante said:


> You see millionrainbows this is where I am confused I have to admit that I never came across 'free jazz' when I was playing, all jazz that I am familiar with improvises on melody as well as meter also harmony, admittedly chord sequences are kept unless a change is signaled or introduced by the soloist or leader, otherwise how can an ens play together if the soloist goes off on a random meander of unrelated notes etc, they could of course play as a drone effect.


A lot of the solos do go off on a drone, and so much depends on the bass player. Listen to the first two Ornette Coleman albums (on Fantasy/Contemporary) _Something Else!!!!_ and _Tomorrow Is The Question_ to get an "easier" way in.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Intuition comes greatly into play when playing free jazz, and that magical quality manages to unite the players in exceptional ways. Rather than starting out with a goal in mind, the direction is found while playing and by reacting off each other. This requires being alert at all times.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

It's joyful as simply conversational . Let no one and nothing make demands on it .


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

Makes fantastical puppet show music .


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## rbacce (Nov 3, 2018)

It's me on the piano.


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