# Soloists Conducting



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Tonight we have tickets to the Chicago SO as our regular series begins. Sir Andraas Schiff is the Soloist, and as I check the program I note he is also the Conductor. The program is Beethoven PC#1, Haydn Symphony #88, Bartok Divertimento, and one of the Bach Concertos.
I don’t know anything about AS as a Conductor. I last saw him in concert as a Pianist probably 20 years ago and haven’t closely followed his career. Therefore my following question doesn’t specifically apply to him but to soloist in general.
Which is: how do people feel about Soloists conducting? I generally don’t like it. When the Conductor is present it seems more like a collaboration. My model here tends to be the classic early stereo recordings featuring Szell and Ormandy as accompanists. The entrances of the Orchestra and the Soloists seem to be in synch. The sense of Soloist vs. Orchestra that then can change to The two working in harmony, which is the foundation of every great Concerto, seems enhanced.
Compare Murray Perahia Mozart PC set where he is conducting vs his Beethoven PC set with Haitink.
The Mozart has some imprecision at various points that one just doesn’t get with Szell/Casadesus, or Brendel/Marriner. Otoh, none of that can be heard in the Beethoven set, where Haitink and Perahia seem very attuned to each other.
It should go without saying that having a Conductor is no guarantee of a good performance, as he/she may be at odds with the Soloist (see Gould/Bernstein), having a bad day, or whatever. Still, after having watched Pinchas Zuckerman face the audience and flap his arms like a bird while he is supposedly leading the Orchestra behind him, I’d prefer someone on the podium


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Having watched some videos of Barbara Hannigan rehearsing Berg's_ Lulu Suite_ where she was both soloist and conductor, it is clear (as it should be) that the vast majority of the preparation occurs then and that all that is needed at the concert are some general cues, all the details have already been worked out and the orchestra knows what to expect.

As to soloist/conductors flapping their arms, I think that description fits a LOT of conductors!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I saw the Joshua Bell soloing/conducting the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, and I was impressed with their balance and precision. But they have been together long enough, they probably don't need flailing arms telling them what they already know to do.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I always find it a bit of an affectation. As Becca says above, the conductor's primary contribution occurs before the performance, but when a soloist is 'flapping his/her arms' in orchestra-only parts of a concerto or even, in the case of piano concertos, flapping one arm when only one hand is playing, I can't be sure that the soloist is concentrating totally on the interpretation of his/her performance.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I was watching to a Blu Ray of Barenboim playing and conducting the 5 Beethoven PCs with his Berlin Orchestra today. I watched the performances of 1 and The Emperor. ! came off pretty well, but during the Emperor some of the issues that I noted in the initial post were more obvious. There were several prolonged pauses of more than a measure where either the soloist or the Orchestra would be slow in coming in.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> I saw the Joshua Bell soloing/conducting the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, and I was impressed with their balance and precision. But they have been together long enough, they probably don't need flailing arms telling them what they already know to do.


Just exactly what I was going to post. It works really well and impressed by it!


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Fwiw: I suppose if it is a small regional orchestra, some money is saved by eliminating the conductor.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> I saw the Joshua Bell soloing/conducting the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, and I was impressed with their balance and precision. But they have been together long enough, they probably don't need flailing arms telling them what they already know to do.


I have been fortunate to see the ACSMF with Bell and Perahia fulfilling this role. For me both were superb performances


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Triplets said:


> how do people feel about Soloists conducting?


It works for music of the Classical era and before, provided that the orchestra is reasonably competent. Most music composed after that really needs someone to help coordinate tempo changes. That said, there are conductorless orchestras that play a wide variety of music (I'm thinking of Orpheus in particular) very well. So I guess I'm agnostic on the issue - I'm fine either way, if the performance is good.

Schiff, BTW, is a fine conductor - I heard him (via broadcast) conduct a very impressive Beethoven Missa Solemnis.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> It works for music of the Classical era and before, provided that the orchestra is reasonably competent. Most music composed after that really needs someone to help coordinate tempo changes. That said, there are conductorless orchestras that play a wide variety of music (I'm thinking of Orpheus in particular) very well. So I guess I'm agnostic on the issue - I'm fine either way, if the performance is good.
> 
> Schiff, BTW, is a fine conductor - I heard him (via broadcast) conduct a very impressive Beethoven Missa Solemnis.


Good to know about Schiff. I'll report back tomorrow


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

There is one work which Barbara Hannigan sings & conducts which I have heard but not seen but would love to ... Sibelius' _Luonnotar_!


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

What a great Concert this was. 
The first half was Schiff conducting the Haydn 88th and Bartok Divertimento. Orchestra was about 30 players, which was reduced slightly for the first work of the second half, Back Keyboard Concerto #5, and then augmented up to about 40 for the finale, Beethoven PC1.
As a conductor Schiff is very active. No baton, plenty of expression, couching, coaching...the Orchestra seemed to follow closely.
The Bach kept him busy at the Keyboard, no chance to leave the stool or barely any to use his hands for conducting, but everything went well. The Beethoven was the most interesting in that he would leap off the stool to lead the Orchestra, again in a very activist manner. After a few minutes I stopped caring about the issue I raised here and was swept up in the Music, as were the players and the rest of the crowd. 
Schiff played a really long cadenza in I that I had never heard before. I did a search and it is by Beethoven, but he later shortened it. It’s pretty madcap and fits the mood of the piece nicely


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Triplets said:


> What a great Concert this was.
> The first half was Schiff conducting the Haydn 88th and Bartok Divertimento. Orchestra was about 30 players, which was reduced slightly for the first work of the second half, Back Keyboard Concerto #5, and then augmented up to about 40 for the finale, Beethoven PC1.
> As a conductor Schiff is very active. No baton, plenty of expression, couching, coaching...the Orchestra seemed to follow closely.
> The Bach kept him busy at the Keyboard, no chance to leave the stool or barely any to use his hands for conducting, but everything went well. The Beethoven was the most interesting in that he would leap off the stool to lead the Orchestra, again in a very activist manner. After a few minutes I stopped caring about the issue I raised here and was swept up in the Music, as were the players and the rest of the crowd.
> Schiff played a really long cadenza in I that I had never heard before. I did a search and it is by Beethoven, but he later shortened it. It's pretty madcap and fits the mood of the piece nicely


Sounds like a great experience. I always enjoy hearing a less-heard, especially a long, cadenza. Good for Schiff!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have never heard a decent, inspired orchestral backup in any concerto with the soloist dubbling as conductor and I wish they would simply STOP IT!!!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

hpowders said:


> I have never heard a decent, inspired orchestral backup in any concerto with the soloist dubbling as conductor and I wish they would simply STOP IT!!!


Does the fact that you have never heard one mean that there aren't any?


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