# How do you 'use' music?



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

To some people music is like food; to others like medicines; to others like a fan. 
~ The 1001 Arabian Nights


food = fundamentally needed sustenance
medicine = to enhance, deepen, or alter some physical or emotional state.
fan = a pleasant wafting of air in the room.


Well?

(P.s. my thinking to posit this one may have been triggered by the high presence of topics related to music and 'emotion' I've seen here.)


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

The best metaphor I can conjure, is that, to me, music is like the drug Comvibir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combivir

Im actually pretty proud of this metaphor.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I would be proud of a metaphor like that too. 

I'll go with "food." Almost all my free time and lots of my money are spent on music, and only one person I know in real life has more music than I do, despite a moving accident some years ago that... I don't want to talk about it anymore.


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## mensch (Mar 5, 2012)

emiellucifuge said:


> The best metaphor I can conjure, is that, to me, music is like the drug Comvibir.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combivir
> 
> Im actually pretty proud of this metaphor.


The Wikipedia article states that "Combivir users typically report feeling tired and sick", but I guess you mean the positive effects of the drug on patients (relieving pill burden and heightening the effects of HIV treatment). 

As for the way I "use" my music, I would say medicine. Listening to music helps me to think and be productive. I wouldn't say it is food, as I can do without for a reasonable period.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

It's both a food and a medicine to me - a magic mushroom.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Polednice said:


> It's both a food and a medicine to me - a magic mushroom.


Oooh, not one to be ashamed of either


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

I'll say drug as well.

The best part is, it has no side effects!

Other than potential hearing loss and alienation of friends and family who don't understand your love of "ancient", "boring" music.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

One thing's for certain and that is that listening to music always takes me into its own universe and makes me feel better, even if I already feel fine. As far as playing it goes, I can be having the worse day ever and just a couple songs into the first set and I'm alive and well with no problems whatsoever. Pretty magical.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I would say medicine.... or maybe a combination of that and food, like things you eat both for the taste and for the health benefits...can't live without it either way.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Nobody wants to own up to using music as pleasant ambiance, huh? Well, I will, as my best answer is "all of the above, at different times." When I turn music on just for background, though, it's usually not classical.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

kv466 said:


> One thing's for certain and that is that listening to music always takes me into its own universe and makes me feel better, even if I already feel fine. As far as playing it goes, I can be having the worse day ever and just a couple songs into the first set and I'm alive and well with no problems whatsoever. Pretty magical.




Your comments remind me of a field service team mate I worked with occasionally. He was easily 'transported' by '70s rock music. It effected his driving (squared off corners can get tiresome).

To return to topic: I use music to keep my psyche in good alignment, and my feet slightly off the ground.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Meaghan said:


> When I turn music on just for background, though, it's usually not classical.


I use this renaissance clavichord music CD for background sometimes, as well as symphonies by Manheim composers like Abel and early Haydn(though I listen to these things as well). When I was younger, I used to be able to do homework(me doing homework, now that's a thought), to the Rolling Stones. Maybe the day will come again.

As for answering the OP, I think "all" and more suits me. But more often its in another category entirely, to stimulate the intellect.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I also use music as a tool. Although I love listening to and writing music, my first calling is writing poetry. I'm particularly interested in writing poetry with a firm knowledge of how the brain processes sound, and that necessarily involves an understanding of music. The best art is that inspired by science, and I increasingly have less time for people who dislike the scientific approach. **** you if you're that person. :tiphat:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I'll go with the drug metaphor as well. My favorite music certainly has drug-like effects on me: it makes me see fantastic things like the fortress of the gods Valhalla on the mountaintops or the glorious snow-covered Alps or the Valkyries riding with the storm clouds, it makes me feel powerful and I would probably not listen to it while driving for fear of uncontrollable acceleration.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Polednice said:


> I also use music as a tool. Although I love listening to and writing music, my first calling is writing poetry. I'm particularly interested in writing poetry with a firm knowledge of how the brain processes sound, and that necessarily involves an understanding of music. The best art is that inspired by science, and I increasingly have less time for people who dislike the scientific approach. **** you if you're that person. :tiphat:


You're a confused young man.

Science is the tool. Music is the goal.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Of the three choices, my use is like medicine. I'm looking for something to heal my soul, make it sing, make it more human, and maybe even touch the divine.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Polednice said:


> It's both a food and a medicine to me - a magic mushroom.


I always thought you must be on magic mushrooms--explains a lot!


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

moody said:


> I always thought you must be on magic mushrooms--explains a lot!


Oh, in the case that were drawing conclusions...

just to be clear; I dont have HIV


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Although I focus much of my time on listening and learning about music, I would not die without it. I suppose I agree with the drug metaphor although all the other drugs I take relieve symptoms while music does not. Music increases my joy, happiness, and love of life. Perhaps there are presently or will be drugs that can do similar things. 

I also agree with Polednice that in some sense music is a tool to achieve certain goals - joy, happiness, and an increased love of life. I guess drugs are a tool as well so I'd say music is like a drug/tool.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Definitely the medicine effect both upwards and downwards. I certainly can't use it for background music unless it's Strauss' waltzes I suppose, I can only listen to music if I stop everything . I use a technique in orchestral items where I look for an instrument focus on it and thereby merge in to the orchestra. Also If I decide to be sad , I grab the wine and play as many sad lieder as I can, I am sure this is what music is for, to wor k the emotions.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Argus said:


> You're a confused young man.
> 
> Science is the tool. Music is the goal.


You're so funny. I'd laugh if I didn't feel sorry for you.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I use music for everything. Sometimes when I am just getting to know a piece of music and I haven't delved too deeply into it yet, I will put it on as background music as I search the web or type stuff on TC. This allows me to just kind of absorb the general feeling of the piece and I'll hear certain moments here and there that will stick out as I am focused on something else, then when I go back and listen for real I remember those moments as markers to latch onto. 

Sometimes I use music for brain food. It's fun to analyze a piece and get down and dirty and discover its inner workings. I feel accomplished after I get done "knowing" a piece to a reasonable extent. 

And then of course I do listen to music for emotion on occasion too. Usually I turn to pieces that I already know well for this and I'll listen to them and have a cry fest. Or Ill listen to them and pretend to conduct or move around or some other silly thing. Music is also fun to listen to when you are loopy on pain killers.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Polednice said:


> You're so funny. I'd laugh if I didn't feel sorry for you.


That wasn't intended to be funny.

That last part hurt my feelings, man. It really hits hard when an anonymous stranger on an internet forum feels sorry for me.

Don't Men of Science have emotions too.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Argus said:


> That wasn't intended to be funny.
> 
> That last part hurt my feelings, man. It really hits hard when an anonymous stranger on an internet forum feels sorry for me.
> 
> Don't Men of Science have emotions too.


I'm so sorry that you were unnecessarily offended. I'll start a prayer group for you.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2012)

When I saw this thread title, I was sure that very quickly someone was bound to question the premise.

I read through the thread twice, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything.

Nothing.

So OK. I'll be the guy who rejects the verb (with or without scare quotes).

I do not use music.

This may go some ways to explaining how some arguments about other things go when I jump into them. How we seem to be constantly at cross purposes, some of us. I certainly find the results to this thread so far to be very revealing. Music is something a lot of us use (or 'use') in order to accomplish some goal. No wonder Cage and the whole experimental* tradition inspire such consistent savaging on board's such as TC. No wonder the more unfamiliar contemporary musics generally get such short shrift here. They cannot be so easily used. Or only used to scare off unwelcome house guests.

Music for me is something for which "use" is completely foreign. Music just is. It is like beauty in Rilke's first Duino elegy:

"For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
which we are barely able to endure and are awed
because it serenely disdains to annihilate us."

That is not the kind of thing you use! That's like talking about how one uses a tornado or the orbit of the planets. 

That's on the one hand. On the other hand, music to me is so close, that talking about using it would be like talking about using my nervous system or using my personality. Those aren't things that I use, those are things that just are me.

So whether I look at it as transcendent or whether I look at it as integral--and I look at it as both, simultaneously--music is something for which "using" is completely alien.

*That's experimental in the musicological sense, which describes musics in which the idea of control is questioned. Indeterminacy, chance, maybe even improvisation. That is, not simply the current substitute for "alternative."


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

some guy said:


> When I saw this thread title, I was sure that very quickly someone was bound to question the premise.
> 
> I read through the thread twice, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything.
> 
> ...


I walked into Star Bucks to order a cup of coffee. They gave me the golden chalice containing the holy grail instead. Boy am I lucky to have found it for free.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I listen to music for enjoyment. The sense of enjoyment I get is what I use music for, and continue to seek from pieces I have not listened to before. Is that too difficult to convey?


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

It seems that this forum is increasingly a ground for unnecessary semantic debate. Very often, when an OP uses an unfortunate or ambiguous word, it's actually quite obvious what the intention is, so our conversations would be a lot less farcical if we spoke to people's ideas rather than nit-picking over wording. It seems to be particularly the case that a few members only have one point about life and art that they want to make again and again and again, ignoring all other discussions, so they latch onto these ambiguities and have them serve their purpose whenever possible, even if _entirely_ irrelevant to the purpose of a thread.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> It seems that this forum is increasingly a ground for unnecessary semantic debate. Very often, when an OP uses an unfortunate or ambiguous word, it's actually quite obvious what the intention is, so our conversations would be a lot less farcical if we spoke to people's ideas rather than nit-picking over wording. It seems to be particularly the case that a few members only have one point about life and art that they want to make again and again and again, ignoring all other discussions, so they latch onto these ambiguities and have them serve their purpose whenever possible, even if _entirely_ irrelevant to the purpose of a thread.


lol of course Polednice, you're not guilty of nit-picking over wording at all.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

violadude said:


> lol of course Polednice, you're not guilty of nit-picking over wording at all.


_I_ only do it when it's necessary because I'm special.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

some guy said:


> When I saw this thread title, I was sure that very quickly someone was bound to question the premise.
> 
> I read through the thread twice, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything.
> 
> ...


Oh, you are a one-I hardly know where to put myself!


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2012)

Dear Polednice and HarpsichordConcerto,

I apologize for having ideas different from yours.

I apologize for expressing those ideas on public forums.

I apologize for enjoying music you find abhorrent.

I apologize for defending and promoting that music on public forums.

And, just to cover all my bases, I apologize for this apology.

Best,

Michael


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

some guy said:


> Dear Polednice and HarpsichordConcerto,
> 
> I apologize for having ideas different from yours.
> 
> ...


Forgive me, but this is once again required:


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

some guy said:


> Dear Polednice and HarpsichordConcerto,
> 
> I apologize for having ideas different from yours.
> 
> ...


Look, you're getting worse calm down, calm down, put on some soothing music and USE it to gather yourself together--or you might burst or something messy1


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

some guy said:


> I do not use music.
> 
> Music for me is something for which "use" is completely foreign. Music just is. It is like beauty in Rilke's first Duino elegy:
> 
> ...


I understand, I think, what you are trying to say here. It is true that in some sense music just is. In fact some music always "just is". Cage taught some of us that. But I think the overwhelming amount of music that TC members and all other music listeners experience is different from music that "just is".

The Bartok Piano Quintet that I'm currently listening to obviously exists whether I listen or not. In that sense it 
"just is". *But* I did 2 things _in order to _ experience it. First, I _chose to listen to music _. Second, I _chose to listen to Bartok's Piano Quintet and not some other work_. The answer to the questions, "Why did you choose to listen to music?" and "Why did you choose to listen to Bartok's Piano Quintet?" get to the issue of "using" music. I _chose_ to use the music to experience it's beauty and make me feel emotionally happier, for example. That is why I "used" the music.

You clearly choose music and obviously have a reason for choosing both to listen and to listen to a specific work. I believe that those reasons, when generalized, would answer the OP question.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> i understand, i think, what you are trying to say here. It is true that in some sense music just is. In fact some music always "just is". Cage taught some of us that. But i think the overwhelming amount of music that tc members and all other music listeners experience is different from music that "just is".
> 
> The bartok piano quintet that i'm currently listening to obviously exists whether i listen or not. In that sense it
> "just is". *but* i did 2 things _in order to _ experience it. First, i _chose to listen to music _. Second, i _chose to listen to bartok's piano quintet and not some other work_. The answer to the questions, "why did you choose to listen to music?" and "why did you choose to listen to bartok's piano quintet?" get to the issue of "using" music. I _chose_ to use the music to experience it's beauty and make me feel emotionally happier, for example. That is why i "used" the music.
> ...


shiver me timbers!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I considered mentioning my discomfort with the word "use," but I found I couldn't express it very well, and anyway the OP already signaled his own by putting it in quotes.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Argus said:


> That wasn't intended to be funny.
> 
> That last part hurt my feelings, man. It really hits hard when an anonymous stranger on an internet forum feels sorry for me.
> 
> Don't Men of Science have emotions too.


Not to worry, you're a man of science - detached from caring, impartial: and it is virtual pity, not real.

I am a tich saddened to be reminded about how youth can tend to think they 'own' earnestness and how often, too, they can completely lack anything near like a sense of humor, about their self, others, or just about anything. Painful memory.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> I considered mentioning my discomfort with the word "use," but I found I couldn't express it very well, and anyway the OP already signaled his own by putting it in quotes.


I am obviously missing something, because I don't understand that discomfort. What's the problem there?


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Music is my map
Music is my sunglasses
Music is my wilderness


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> I am obviously missing something, because I don't understand that discomfort. What's the problem there?


Like I said, I don't think I can express it very well. Maybe "use" connotes "exploit" or something. Kind of like I wouldn't be comfortable saying that I "use" my family. It doesn't feel right to me, for one reason or another. Words like "appreciate," "love" and so on feel more correct.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2012)

science said:


> Kind of like I wouldn't be comfortable saying that I "use" my family. It doesn't feel right to me, for one reason or another. Words like "appreciate," "love" and so on feel more correct.


Nice! I wish I'd said this. (I'd like to steal it for later, if that's OK!)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

some guy said:


> ...No wonder the more unfamiliar contemporary musics generally get such short shrift here...


Well compared to what you know, that would be the case, but let's face it, I don't think that's generally the case. Eg. I just contributed to a Hovhaness thread recently set up here. Nobody I personally know, no person into classical music I know, knows Hovhaness (& those that do, they know him cos I told them about it). & I found out about Hovhaness on this very forum. So there you go. It's not all doom and gloom on the new or newer music front. Good to think positive.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

PetrB said:


> To some people music is like food; to others like medicines; to others like a fan.
> ~ The 1001 Arabian Nights
> 
> food = fundamentally needed sustenance
> ...


With classical, the first two (esp. medicine), with non-classical, it's mainly #3 (as a 'fan'), but sometimes I do listen to it actively, depending on my mood, etc. On my blog on this forum, there are a number of rock, ambient and jazz albums I've been listening to in the same way as classical, eg. active listening.

I see no difference, or not much, between classical chamber music and jazz small groups musics. Also, there is much craftsmanship in what rock musicians do, and some types of techno can be very sophisticated.

So it's all three options for me basically, esp. 1 & 2.


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## opus55 (Nov 9, 2010)

For every one of my favorite pieces, there's someone, some place or time associated with it. I can 'use' music to travel in time and space when I'm in the right mood. Usually though, I enjoy music for the sound alone. I have not reached a level where I can analyze and compare music and performances.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

some guy said:


> When I saw this thread title, I was sure that very quickly someone was bound to question the premise.
> 
> I read through the thread twice, just to make sure I hadn't missed anything.
> 
> ...


...Of course, I SHOULD have set the the opening phrase of the quote in the question heading slot, "To some, music is..."


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^I think "use" was fine. Esp. in terms of using medication (or drugs). Let's face it, it has these qualities. It takes part in healing people, it can be addictive, etc.

As for like a fan, cooling down your room and making a nice breeze, well we also use a fan, we plug it in & use it.

Food is slightly different, eg. we don't "use" it the same way as the other two. We need it, all of us, for basic survival.

But two out of three ain't bad, as the song goes. So don't worry, someone is always going to be sort of pedantic & hone in on certain details, which is more about them than you.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> Like I said, I don't think I can express it very well. Maybe "use" connotes "exploit" or something. Kind of like I wouldn't be comfortable saying that I "use" my family. It doesn't feel right to me, for one reason or another. Words like "appreciate," "love" and so on feel more correct.


Ah, so. I hadn't considered that connotation. That meaning seems to reduce the usefulness of what should be an innocuous word.

Your suggested alternatives don't work in the subject context.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Speaking of being nit-picky with wording...when you guys say "I love [random composer]" really, you guys should actually say "I love [random composer]'s music" or else I think you are into necrophilia or some crap like that.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

It brightens my day. I use it as oxygen. 

The moment at night where I put on my headphones and dive into a new cd is priceless, a moment of discovery, and a high point in my day. The moment during the next day(s) when I listen to the recording in my speakers or in my car as I commute leads to more analysis and confirmation.

I've used it as oxygen since I was a child. Deprived of it, I'm not sure I would remain sane.


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## ZombieBeethoven (Jan 17, 2012)

My "use" of music is comprable to my use of alcohol. Sometimes I enjoy a glass of wine sometimes a beer or a cocktail. I might want to ponder the chemistry involved in the creation or have a conversation about shared reactions to it. Occasionally, I might just want to get buzzed. Fortunately, I can listen to music during breaks at work. Drinking at my job would be a problem! It is also good that I can listen to music with greater frequency and intensity than I wish to drink. I don't think I would care for the hangovers!


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## delallan (Jan 4, 2011)

Music provides me with so much enjoyment: the time spent listening to a new symphony (getting lost in the structure of the piece for a few hours) is most rewarding; listening to familiar pieces and composers provides me with the space to unwind and relax, as though in the company of an old friend; sitting in a concert hall and listening to the symphony or a particular vocalist is often 'other-worldly'. I love music, and I make it part of my day, most days.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

some guy said:


> Dear Polednice and HarpsichordConcerto,
> I apologize for:
> having ideas different from yours.
> expressing those ideas on public forums.
> ...


Brahms was famous / infamous for offending people. Upon leaving one gathering, he addressed the room in general, 
"If there is anyone here whom I have not insulted, I beg his pardon."

Kinda perfect...

And, well yeah, going a little fine-haired obsessive on someones syntax is a tich too LITERAL.

Conscious or not, maybe I 'set a trap.' However, all literalists, the quote is "To some...."
So, literally, I Should Have Asked, "What's it to ya?"


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Brahms was famous / infamous for offending people. Upon leaving one gathering, he addressed the room in general,
> "If there is anyone here whom I have not insulted, I beg his pardon."
> 
> Kinda perfect...
> ...


That wasn't Brahms--that was Polednice.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

PetrB said:


> Brahms was famous / infamous for offending people. Upon leaving one gathering, he addressed the room in general,
> "If there is anyone here whom I have not insulted, I beg his pardon."
> 
> Kinda perfect...
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head there. In real life, I am not happy with pedantic people, or people who focus too much on small things and not the big picture. Eg. I see them as not seeing the forest for the trees, to use a tired cliche.

I can cope with the diversity of people, eg. everybody is different. But then why is it so hard to get past square one with these overly micro focussing people, they snap at your heals if you utter a word that does not correspond with their world view or whatever. It's a case methinks of the pot calling the kettle black. That's not real communication, that's pedantry. Simple as that.

On another thread Debussy was said to be pendantic. Well I think he has some serious competitors in this world, and I'm like get over it.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I don't believe that the unease is pedantic. If one's 1st meaning of 'use' is semi-synonymous with 'exploit', using use for this use shouldn't feel right. I just wish I could fit another use in there.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

violadude said:


> Speaking of being nit-picky with wording...when you guys say "I love [random composer]" really, you guys should actually say "I love [random composer]'s music" or else I think you are into necrophilia or some crap like that.


Sometimes when I say "I love [composer]," I actually do mean the person. Usually when I'm talking about Ethel Smyth or Gustav Mahler, for all their flaws. When I read a detailed biography, I tend to fall in love.

(OT)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^*Hilltroll,* I was talking generally of what goes on this forum, not only this thread & not necessarily about you. But I don't want to forment division. However, a number of people here are hesitant to post anything much outside of the current listening thread - which is overall a safe and friendly thread. But they don't want to post elsewhere, let alone make up a thread, to most likely avoid being questioned when saying the simplest of things.

That's why I talk straight as much as I can. Not use too much jargon. Stick to the topic of the thread, not what someone said a week ago on another thread. I have slipped up sometimes, but that's my aim now. It's a waste of time talking about things that ultimately I'll forget in a day or two, that don't mean anything, and put people off, etc.

There's a silent amount of people out there, members on this forum, who don't feel comfortable with participating as they have potential to. This issue is a part of this, but there are others. In any case, this is an okay forum, & I don't want to be pedantic myself in lecturing etc about this, but anyway.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Meaghan said:


> Sometimes when I say "I love [composer]," I actually do mean the person. Usually when I'm talking about Ethel Smyth or Gustav Mahler, for all their flaws. When I read a detailed biography, I tend to fall in love.
> 
> (OT)


Can't say I fall in love, but, because most 'detailed biographies' are sympathetic, I usually end up liking the subject. So... Moscheles was a good guy.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Can't say I fall in love, but, because most 'detailed biographies' are sympathetic, I usually end up liking the subject. So... Moscheles was a good guy.


When I read La Grange's _Mahler_ (admittedly only the first volume, still a hefty tome), I concluded that Mahler and I probably would not get along well, but I still grew quite attached to the guy. When I read Smyth's autobiography, I wanted to build a time machine and go be her best friend. Or even just her groupie. She's terrific.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

In my opinion music literally is a drug. It shares many characteristics with other drugs, changes the way I feel, the way I think, it can take me to another place within my mind and assist me in writing poetry, as Polednice mentioned. It also can intensify in effect with certain other drugs as emiellucifuge inferred (intentionally or unintentionally) with his/her post. 

I'm not sure that I would qualify it as a food or not, but I guess I would say that it is simply because if I don't listen to music for a while I begin singing and making up music in my head and whatnot until I get a recording or an instrument in my hand, so in that sense I suppose I make my own food until I can get some pre-made food. 

Hmmm. In that case would home-made music be more healthy for the mind than pre-recorded music? I'm willing to bet that it is....


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Polednice said:


> ....The best art is that inspired by science, and I increasingly have less time for people who dislike the scientific approach. **** you if you're that person. :tiphat:


For you. Can that soapbox support the weight of a pig much longer?

Will the listeners in the park begin to drift off mid-lecture?

Are you like that famous German leader who thought the world would clearly be better if all 'just agreed' with his view of it? -- Fair enough question I think


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Polednice said:


> _I_ only do it when it's necessary because I'm special.


'Special' and the fare gets you on the bus.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

science said:


> I considered mentioning my discomfort with the word "use," but I found I couldn't express it very well, and anyway the OP already signaled his own by putting it in quotes.


Thank you sir: Thank you Madame Pink Platform Spiked Heel Pump.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

moody said:


> That wasn't Brahms--that was Polednice.


Naw, It is too clearly elegantly contrived to be other than Brahms.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sid James said:


> ...why is it so hard to get past square one with these overly micro focusing people, they snap at your heals if you utter a word that does not correspond with their world view or whatever. That's not real communication, that's pedantry. Simple as that.


"A little bit o' country, a little bit o' rock 'n' roll." Hey! it is an online forum.

Hey, we're online: it could be mere pedantry -- or, no telling unless the user has advertised the condition, medicated or not -- it could be OCD.

"...OH! - I Beg Pardon, of course, that's CDO, because That Is The Order In Which They Belong!"

Re: "... they snap at your heals if you utter a word that does not correspond with their world view." 
That is more a matter of a Petit Martinet, Autocrat, or Fascist dictator in the making. High aspirations, all 

Ha haa ha a aa aaa.

Ahhh, people.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

It's my art, my love, my science, my medicine, my opiate and my reason to be.

If it wasn't for unlimited access to the Nutcracker suite before last Christmas, during the two coldest, darkest and most desolate weeks of my life, i fear i would have done something incredibly foolish.

Oh cheery me.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Mesa said:


> If it wasn't for unlimited access to the Nutcracker suite before last Christmas, during the two coldest, darkest and most desolate weeks of my life, i fear i would have done something incredibly foolish.


That Pas de Deux Intrada always reminds that there are marvellous things beyond my sorrows even if I can't see them in the moment.


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## brianwalker (Dec 9, 2011)

Elevation. Exaltation. Inspiration. Atmosphere. Anesthetic.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I know this is cliché but i like listening to music when i go to bed. It doesn't necessarily help me fall asleep, although sometimes it does, but i often hear the music while dreaming and it makes the experience all the more multi-sensorial.

I remember a distinct dream recently in which the background music was the 'Können Tränen meiner Wangen' aria from the Matthäus-Passion.

I used to listen to the organ works quite frequently when i did homework. I must say i rarely listen to music just for the sake of listening...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

PetrB said:


> ...
> Re: "... they snap at your heals if you utter a word that does not correspond with their world view."
> That is more a matter of a Petit Martinet, Autocrat, or Fascist dictator in the making. High aspirations, all
> ...


I urge people to take the pedantry issue to this thread I created not long ago -

http://www.talkclassical.com/18372-questions-without-easy-answers.html

Especially if you're fed up about it like I am, and a few others are.

Anwyay, there is use in music, eg. Hindemith's concept/practice of composing_ Gebrauchsmusik _(or _music for use _in German!). I elaborated on this point on the above thread, in my post HERE (second paragraph). So come along folks and let's get down and dirty, lets get rid of unneccesary pedantry on this forum (I know many people here detest it, and possibly it's majority?).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Sorry, is this all about the word "use?" Or did something else come up in the meantime?

If it's about the word "use," the OP _did_ put it in quotes, signaling his recognition that some people wouldn't choose that word, so that ought to be good enough for us to get over it and focus on the original question. Probably no need to accuse anyone of fascism or whatever.

Back on topic, I like the music as drug analogy. I'm a confirmed caffeine addict, and I think they are indeed somewhat similar in their effect.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2012)

Whether the word "use" is in scare quotes or not, the implication is the same, that the thing being used is a means to an end.

What some of us have noted, merely, is that music is for us the end, not a means.

On a side note, I have noticed that for people who use music as a means to an end, new music is anathema. Or at least impertinent. I've noticed equally that people for whom music is the end, new and unfamiliar musics are much easier to listen to and appreciate. And that's largely, I'm sure, because they're not trying to use music but just letting it be itself.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

some guy said:


> Whether the word "use" is in scare quotes or not, the implication is the same, that the thing being used is a means to an end.


No it isn't. It's quite clearly a metaphor for the alternative questions: "How does music affect you?", "What do you get out of music?", "Why do you listen to music?"


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

some guy said:


> Whether the word "use" is in scare quotes or not, the implication is the same, that the thing being used is a means to an end.
> 
> What some of us have noted, merely, is that music is for us the end, not a means.
> 
> On a side note, I have noticed that for people who use music as a means to an end, new music is anathema. Or at least impertinent. I've noticed equally that people for whom music is the end, new and unfamiliar musics are much easier to listen to and appreciate. And that's largely, I'm sure, because they're not trying to use music but just letting it be itself.


Hah. That is one of your more misbegotten 'notices', _some guy_. I would say that you view the world through jaundice-colored glasses, but that would just be a yellow tint, with no particular significance. Anyway...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

some guy said:


> Whether the word "use" is in scare quotes or not, the implication is the same, that the thing being used is a means to an end.
> 
> What some of us have noted, merely, is that music is for us the end, not a means.
> 
> On a side note, I have noticed that for people who use music as a means to an end, new music is anathema. Or at least impertinent. I've noticed equally that people for whom music is the end, new and unfamiliar musics are much easier to listen to and appreciate. And that's largely, I'm sure, because they're not trying to use music but just letting it be itself.


Bravo, Bravissimo!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey PetrB, you've had to defend your use of the word use, but I haven't heard you answer your own question, that interests me more.

Do tell.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

some guy said:


> Whether the word "use" is in scare quotes or not, the implication is the same, that the thing being used is a means to an end.
> 
> What some of us have noted, merely, is that music is for us the end, not a means.
> 
> On a side note, I have noticed that for people who use music as a means to an end, new music is anathema. Or at least impertinent. I've noticed equally that people for whom music is the end, new and unfamiliar musics are much easier to listen to and appreciate. And that's largely, I'm sure, because they're not trying to use music but just letting it be itself.


I consider this ridiculous, but in any case I'll "use" music any way I wish.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

moody said:


> I consider this ridiculous, but in any case I'll "use" music any way I wish.


Well you might get a knock on your door from the thought police for contravening _Article 307_ of the _Rules for Listening to Music Act_ -

_"Listeners must not use music in any way, except to create, support and spread certain ideologies (which imply that others not sharing their ideology are inflexible, thus setting up a false dichotomy)."_

So look out moody, you may not be "here" tommorrow!...


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