# Schubert Piano Sonatas



## Triplets

I have yet to find a completely satisfactory cycle. I have Sciff but find a great deal of it perfunctory. Klien on Vox underplays the big Sonatas, as does Brendel. I generally like Uchida but she can sound impersonal. Any suggestions?


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## Ukko

Schnabel and Kempff. Their interpretations are different, but each is nothing short of wonderful. If you want heavy duty angst, maybe more than is really there, Richter provides that in the "big" sonatas.


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## Vaneyes

Why does one need an entire cycle? Ukko named three Schubert heroes. Of more recents, I'd add Lupu, Lewis, Uchida, Sokolov.:tiphat:


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## hpowders

If Sciff ain't good enough, try his cousin András Schiff.


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## KenOC

Schiff perfunctory? I suspect he doesn't think so!

In addition to those named, I'll add Richard Goode. And, for something different, Andreas Staier on a fortepiano of Schubert's vintage.


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## trazom

Triplets said:


> I generally like Uchida but she can sound impersonal. Any suggestions?


She's a bit uneven here only because she loves these sonatas so much, she tends to emphasize things that probably only make interpretive sense to her and no one else. Wilhelm Kempff's playing opened up Schubert's piano music to her so at least give his recordings a try.


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## Guest

Kempff. He really is a master in Beethoven, Schubert, and Schumann.


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## Mandryka

trazom said:


> She's a bit uneven here only because she loves these sonatas so much, she tends to emphasize things that *probably only make interpretive sense to her and no one else. *Wilhelm Kempff's playing opened up Schubert's piano music to her so at least give his recordings a try.


How do you know? (Have you discussed this with her?)


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## Mandryka

Triplets said:


> I have yet to find a completely satisfactory cycle. I have Sciff but find a great deal of it perfunctory. Klien on Vox underplays the big Sonatas, as does Brendel. I generally like Uchida but she can sound impersonal. Any suggestions?


There is no satisfactory set. You need to hunt out individual recordings. Let me know if you want some suggestions.


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## Triplets

Vaneyes said:


> Why does one need an entire cycle? Ukko named three Schubert heroes. Of more recents, I'd add Lupu, Lewis, Uchida, Sokolov.:tiphat:


I am not a big fan of either Lewis or Sokolov, both of whom seem intent on italicizing what they play until one begs for mercy. If only some of their enthusiasm would have passed on to Schiff then perhaps we would have a happy medium.
I do have some Lupu lps laying about somewhere. I'll dig them out as soon as I make Turkey Soup, Turkey Tetrazzini, and Turkey ice cream.


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## BartokPizz

I agree with Mandryka that you are better off with recordings of individual sonatas or subsets of the sonatas, but that said you will probably have to go for a cycle to get some of the fragmentary sonatas.

One tricky thing about Schubert cycles is that so few of them are actually complete, if we define complete as all of the 21 numbered sonatas. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one that is truly complete (Michael Dalberto on 13 discs, which I've not heard). The cycles I know best--Brendel's 1980s cycle, Lupu, Klein, Uchida--are all missing sonatas.

*Lupu * omits about half of the sonatas; included are #1, #5, #13, #14, #16, and #18-21; it is notably missing the Reliquie (#15 in C) and the Gasteiner (#17 in D)
*Uchida *has all of the sonatas from D.664 (#13) forward but of the earlier sonatas only #4, 7 and 9
*Brendel * (digital cycle) is missing #1-13 (!)
*Klein *is missing #8 and 10
*Schiff *is missing #10 and 12
*Kempff *is missing #8, 10 and 12

For the last three sonatas, I favor Pollini and Brendel (the earlier, analog set): they are cornerstones of my library. For the mature sonatas other than the final three (#14-#18), while I own Klein, Lupu, and Uchida, I most often pass them over in favor of Brendel's digital cycle, the live #14 and #15 on Brendel's "Salzburg" album, Goode's #16 and #17, and Hough's #14 (coupled with an excellent #21).

I like Lupu best in #13, the "little" A Major.

I don't listen to #1-12 often enough to have favorites, but I guess I probably listen to Klein most.

I find Uchida's playing too mannered in her Schubert cycle; climaxes don't come off and in general she leaves me cold. Interesting that Amazon customer reviews of her box set are glowing, but of individual issues the reviews are much more mixed (and I think more accurate). I admire Uchida in Mozart, though.

As for Schiff, I currently own only his late Schubert. Triplets's comment on the perfunctory quality of Schiff's playing has come in for ridicule for some reason. I happen to agree with him. The final movement of the D.960, for example, is listless to my ear. I am a fan of Schiff's Beethoven cycle, though.


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## trazom

Mandryka said:


> How do you know? (Have you discussed this with her?)


No, I actually listened to her opinions in her interviews, compared her performances to other pianists, then used a little deductive reasoning.


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## Janspe

Uchida was the one who truly made me understand what incredible pieces the Schubert sonatas really are. Some people say that her playing is too ethereal and nuanced, but I find it absolutely captivating - even though I don't know whether it's "good" Schubert playing or not. She's also recorded some the smaller-scale pieces, like the impromptus and the moments musicaux.

The last five sonatas are probably my favourite ones (D, G, c, A, Bb) but I tend to find something great in all of them. The more I listen to these pieces the more appalled I am that they aren't as played as the Beethoven sonatas.


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## Ukko

Janspe said:


> Uchida was the one who truly made me understand what incredible pieces the Schubert sonatas really are. Some people say that her playing is too ethereal and nuanced, but I find it absolutely captivating - even though I don't know whether it's "good" Schubert playing or not. She's also recorded some the smaller-scale pieces, like the impromptus and the moments musicaux.
> 
> The last five sonatas are probably my favourite ones (D, G, c, A, Bb) but I tend to find something great in all of them. The more I listen to these pieces the more appalled I am that they aren't as played as the Beethoven sonatas.


Schubert was not as emotionally 'seasoned' as Beethoven. That shows in the sonatas - and this observation may be completely irrelevant.


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## MagneticGhost

Are the Brendel performances in the Decca boxset (1882-1888) the same as the Phillips Digital versions. I ask because I thought the Phillips Impromptus was stunnning and I'd plump for that Brendel box if so.
But I've also heard that some of Brendel's early performances were collated into bargain boxes much to the pianists chagrin.

I can never get my head around all the repackaging that goes on. 
If anyone can shed some light, I'll be grateful. 

I was listening to the Uchida earlier today and I agree with someone above - it's nice if a little subdued.


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## Triplets

Janspe said:


> Uchida was the one who truly made me understand what incredible pieces the Schubert sonatas really are. Some people say that her playing is too ethereal and nuanced, but I find it absolutely captivating - even though I don't know whether it's "good" Schubert playing or not. She's also recorded some the smaller-scale pieces, like the impromptus and the moments musicaux.
> 
> The last five sonatas are probably my favourite ones (D, G, c, A, Bb) but I tend to find something great in all of them. The more I listen to these pieces the more appalled I am that they aren't as played as the Beethoven sonatas.


 That tends to be a common reaction. The Schubert Piano Sonatas are not held in the same esteem as Beethoven's Sonatas, through no fault of Schubert. Had he lived longer, and had a Supportive Publisher, he no doubt would have editied these works, perhaps suppressed some of the earlier efforts, and made other changes. Also his Musical Personality is not the same as Beethoven. Schubert relies more on melody and novel harmonies, and Beethoven more on structural command. Beethoven's greatness tends to overshadow his younger colleague, and when most of his really develop an appreciation for Schubert on his own terms, and stop comparing him to Beethoven, we become somewhat overwhelmed when we realize the magnitude of his achievement.


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## Triplets

MagneticGhost said:


> Are the Brendel performances in the Decca boxset (1882-1888) the same as the Phillips Digital versions. I ask because I thought the Phillips Impromptus was stunnning and I'd plump for that Brendel box if so.
> But I've also heard that some of Brendel's early performances were collated into bargain boxes much to the pianists chagrin.
> 
> I can never get my head around all the repackaging that goes on.
> If anyone can shed some light, I'll be grateful.
> 
> I was listening to the Uchida earlier today and I agree with someone above - it's nice if a little subdued.


 Uchida and Klien have been my go tos here for years, along with some Richter. I dug up Lupu lps and am now listening through the hiss and crackle. I ordered the Kempff today.


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## SiegendesLicht

I've not heard all the complete cycles that have been suggested, but for me Kempff beats everything I've heard so far.


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## Albert7

Pollini also has a great set for Schubert too: http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Piano-Sonatas-D-958-Pollini/dp/B0000B09YZ


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## Vaneyes

MagneticGhost said:


> Are the Brendel performances in the Decca boxset (1882-1888) the same as the Phillips Digital versions. I ask because I thought the Phillips Impromptus was stunnning and I'd plump for that Brendel box if so.
> But I've also heard that some of Brendel's early performances were collated into bargain boxes much to the pianists chagrin.
> 
> I can never get my head around all the repackaging that goes on.
> If anyone can shed some light, I'll be grateful.
> 
> I was listening to the Uchida earlier today and I agree with someone above - it's nice if a little subdued.


Re Universal, Philips is now Decca. The following may help some.:tiphat:

2CD/1984 - '99 (Live recs.)










7CD/1970's Philips










7CD/1987/8 Philips


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## Triplets

Vaneyes said:


> Re Universal, Philips is now Decca. The following may help some.:tiphat:
> 
> 2CD/1984 - '99 (Live recs.)
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7CD/1970's Philips
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 7CD/1987/8 Philips


I've been listening to Brendelin the last 3 Sonatas, the 1970s Phillips. It is my favorite of these great pieces, and stunningly well recorded.


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## PeterF

I just finished listening to Perahia playing D.958 and D.959 and liked them very much.
These are not the only versions I have, but the Perahia 2 CD set of Schuberts last 3 Sonatas
are very recent acquisitions for me.
Hope to listen to Perahia play D.960 later today or tomorrow.


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## aajj

I'd say it's been well established that no single pianist has provided a comprehensive set. 

Hard to go wrong with Brendel for the final three sonatas, anywhere anytime, as well as earlier ones such as A Minor D784, C Major D840, and B Major D575. 
Lupu on D894 is as good as it gets. 
I love Ingrid Haebler on the A Major D664 and the A Minor D845. 
Leif Ove Andsnes on the late sonatas. 
Andreas Staier, doing his thing on a period instrument, is fascinating on D959 and D960. 
Richter is not to my taste, too slow and drawwwwwwn out. 
Kempff and Pires are each lyrically beautiful in their own way.


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## hpowders

Yes. Ingrid Haebler. Another underrated very fine pianist. Also terrific in Mozart.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Elizabeth Leonskaja is also very good in these works, imo.


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## aajj

Ingrid Haebler possesses juuuuust the touch for Schubert and Mozart. She finds the tender and firm, internal and eternal thread in their music.


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## Chronochromie

aajj said:


> I love Ingrid Haebler on the A Major D664 and the A Minor D845.
> .


Just looked it up on Spotify. Her playing of the first movement of D845 is nearly 12 minutes long. Seriously?


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## aajj

^^^ All i can say is, her playing is so strong that i don't mind the length. 

This reminds me of when i listened to Arcadi Volodos on the G Major, D894. His 1st movement took over 18 minutes and drove me up a wall. He seemed to make it all about himself with excessive emotionalism.


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## Haydn man

I have been listening to Brendel over the past couple of weeks and really enjoyed the quality of his playing with much warmth matched by a first class recording
The Impromptus I think we're my highlights 
Plan to download tomorrow via iTunes


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## TurnaboutVox

Perhaps these will be regarded as curiosities only but Gottlieb Wallisch on Naxos has done a rather good survey (on Naxos) of Schubert's fragmentary and incomplete piano sonatas, on three discs. There's worthwhile music in each of these.

No 1 in E major D.157
No 2 in C, D.279-346
No 3 in E, D.459-459a (which is a 5 movement cut-and-shut job)
No 5 in A flat, D.557
No 6 in e, D.566-506
No 7 in D flat, D.567
No 9 in F sharp minor D.571
No 11 in C, D.613 / D.612
No 12 in F minor, D.625 / D.505
No 15 in C major D.840 'Reliquie'

Piano Sonata in C sharp minor D655 (fragment)
Piano Sonata in E minor D769a (fragment)

There's also a truly complete (in fact _completed_, by Tirimo) Schubert sonata cycle by the musicologist - pianist Martino Tirimo, on EMI, now deleted. Unfortunately the recorded sound isn't very good, because he takes a rather beautiful, gentle and languorous approach to Schubert.

OK, these are curios; my go-to recordings are Kempff and Brendel's 1970s analogue discs.


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## JAS

Can anyone explain to me what is going in the final part of Piano Sonata in C major, D 279? I have the Paul Badura-Skoda set on period pianos. (This work is at the end of the first CD in the set.) Is he intentionally playing it too hard or is he actually hitting the piano with something? It certainly sounds like something that should have an explanation, or a warning.


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## The3Bs

PeterF said:


> I just finished listening to Perahia playing D.958 and D.959 and liked them very much.
> These are not the only versions I have, but the Perahia 2 CD set of Schuberts last 3 Sonatas
> are very recent acquisitions for me.
> Hope to listen to Perahia play D.960 later today or tomorrow.


I have listened to this recently (I have been going through a Schubert sonata period) and liked very much his D.958, specially the last movement. He brings a sing & dance like approach to it.... It got me tapping....
The D.959 is also quite good but his marred IMHO by a too fast start to the Andantino.
The D.960.... I am still digesting it....


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## The3Bs

I have not seen any one commenting on Michael Endres (I have been sampling his cycle via Spotify) nor Christian Zacharias?

What I heard from Mr Endres is quite interesting... it is a very well recorded cycle and on the later sonatas there is much to like.


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Uchida's set is what I keep going back to. I strongly recommend OP take a more serious listen to it. 

Schubert's sonata requires a lot more patience for listening than Beethoven. You simply cannot look for thrill and excitement but introspection and poetry from it. Performance wise it is best to avoid the idiosyncratic ones such as Sokolov but those with more natural, relaxed, and balanced style (a la Brendel, Lupu and Kempff), in my humble opinion.


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## The3Bs

Just listened to Brendel last 3....
I wish I could play as he can... but in the end I still prefer other approach to these. 
He takes a very precise and articulated approach to these which reveals quite a few details here and there but the overall result does not move me in the same way as Lupu, Richter, Polini, Perahia, Imogen Cooper and some others...


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## damianjb1

Mandryka said:


> There is no satisfactory set. You need to hunt out individual recordings. Let me know if you want some suggestions.


Yes please. I'd love suggestions.


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## Mandryka

damianjb1 said:


> Yes please. I'd love suggestions.


Well my suggestion is that you start by exploring the recordings by Anthony Goldstone.


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## Enthusiast

I was listening to this yesterday and was reminded what an astonishing record it is. It is, of course, a forte piano, but it is truly great Schubert playing as well.


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## starthrower

I've been wanting to pick up a set in addition to the Zacharias 5 disc box I have but I can't decide on Kempff or Uchida. And I'm thinking of getting Brendel's Philips Duo CD of the late sonatas.


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## DavidA

Some you might try


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> I've been wanting to pick up a set in addition to the Zacharias 5 disc box I have but I can't decide on Kempff or Uchida. And I'm thinking of getting *Brendel's Philips Duo CD of the late sonatas.*


Definitely get that (the Brendel). Between Kempff and Uchida my vote would go to Uchida (who studied with Kempff in Vienna as a young pianist, incidentally) but you can't go wrong with one or the other.


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## PeterF

I have two very good “complete” sets of the Schubert piano sonatas - Kempff and Klein.

Have a variety of other pianists playing individual sonatas.

At the moment, my favorite version of the last, and perhaps greatest sonata D.960, is by Rudolf Serkin.


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