# Single Round: Ernani Ernani. Ponselle and Callas



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This was NOT my day: The first round one was a total and complete boo boo. Then I was super excited because I had planned a wonderful new contest with Marjorie Lawrence, who has very very few operatic recordings, and Eileen Farrell in Il est doux, in which Farrell is the absolute bomb with the most powerful singing she ever did but NEITHER were available when I checked on regular Youtube ( bad word). Next I was going to do Farrell ( who is really great) and Ponselle in Ernani and then the winner against Callas but Ponselle is the only one who has even a glimmer of a chance against she who wins all uber alles so we are going with those two. I am just glad Shaughnessy convinced me to check on regular Youtube before I published a contest because Il est doux would have been a disaster for me.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Callas once told one of her Masterclass students that if she wanted a good role model in this aria, then she should listen to Ponselle, so we know Callas's feelings on the matter.

Ponselle's voice is in good condition, notably more secure than Callas's 1958 voice, with a good trill and she sings the coloratura neatly and with accuracy. The voice is also more beautiful with that typical velvety sheen so that should really clinch it, but, as ever with Callas, it's never quite that simple.

With Callas we note the change of colour when she expresse her loathing of Silva on _questo odiata vogliato _(the hated dotard), and then again the way she caresses Ernani's name in the opening measures. Her voice is nowhere near as agreaable as Ponselle's but she sings the cabaletta with more grace, style, accuracy and elegance.

I love Ponselle's singing of this aria and, if listening with only half an ear, would no doubt give her the prize for the greater beauty of the voice and for her nimble execution of its difficulties, but when giving them my full attention, Callas gives me that bit more, so, yet again, it's Callas for me.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Farrell would have been able to acquit herself honorably - If you're not careful, you're going to second- and third-guess yourself into an early grave... I don't know what your heritage is but it's safe to say that we can definitely rule out Irish as we've always lived our lives by one simple rule... Act first, think afterwards - 






If you're less than thrilled with any of the selections in post 1 above, these are alternates that merit a listen - Neither is cued up -



Spoiler: Rosa Ponselle - Surta è la notte / Ernani!... Ernani, involami













Spoiler: Maria Callas — "Surta è la notte ... Ernani, Ernani, involami" (Verdi: Ernani, Act I)











The 2014 remaster sounds cleaner with less of the that hollow sounding reverberation on the 97 version.


If you're still interested in Marjorie Lawrence, here's a version you can use -



Spoiler: Marjorie Lawrence - 1945 radio broadcast - Il est doux il est bon











pair it with this one -



Spoiler: Eileen Farrell - Hérodiade, Act 1: "Celui dont la parole efface toute peine" - Air. "Il est doux, il est bon"...











Again, nothing is cued up as I wasn't entirely certain where you wanted them to start.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm often confronted here with the question of how much to allow for the shortcomings of recordings. Ponselle sings this with impeccable musicality and beauty of tone. My only reservation about it is that the tempo of the cavatina feels a little pressed, with the sound of the acompanying instruments suggestive of a Saturday dance on the village green. I note that the timing - 4'36" - is about the maximum possible on a 78 rpm record side, and it's clear that the tempi were carefully calibrated wih that in mind. The question for me is whether to extrapolate from this an idea of what Ponselle would have done and sounded like recorded as Callas was. That's never entirely possible, but it seems a safe assumption that a touch more relaxation and flexibility on the part of the conductor would have allowed for an even lovelier performance by the singer.

I'm going to make allowances and go for Ponselle.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

One of my favourite Ponselle recordings. I feel bad for not voting for her, since she is excellent, and in much better voice than Callas, who wobbles a bit and is reedy in the high notes, still Callas, as always, is musically and dramatically impeccable, and even technically sings with more fluidity than Ponselle in the cabaletta.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I am not as devoted to Ponselle as most others who hear her and, though I hear the beauty of the voice and its use, to me she lacks that ultimate grace that Callas brings to this young character. Yes, the sound of the Callas voice in 1958 in these sessions was compromised, the tone raucous up high and _acuti _ wavering - the recorded sound doesn’t help, being too reverberant and adding to those waves. In the final run, it’s not a recording I listen to with unalloyed pleasure, but it’s the one I pick here. I should note that I do not have Ponselle’s recording.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Farrell would have been able to acquit herself honorably - If you're not careful, you're going to second- and third-guess yourself into an early grave... I don't know what your heritage is but it's safe to say that we can definitely rule out Irish as we've always lived our lives by one simple rule... Act first, think afterwards -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured out where I went wrong. I had to put the full name of the aria, not just Il est doux!!! Foreign languages are not my friend.. Thanks for rescuing a contest I really cared about.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I understand that most of you value emotional artistry more than me as I don't reliably hear it and don't know what the words mean like most of you more intelligent opera lovers. I know Callas sings with ultimate skill here, but this is too late for me and her voice too ugly up high. If she had sung this in 52 she would definitely have had my vote. I just love the sound of Ponselle's voice. Beauty is an important part of operatic enjoyment to me so sue me


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I understand that most of you value emotional artistry more than me as I don't reliably hear it and don't know what the words mean like most of you more intelligent opera lovers. I know Callas sings with ultimate skill here, but this is too late for me and her voice too ugly up high. If she had sung this in 52 she would definitely have had my vote. I just love the sound of Ponselle's voice. Beauty is an important part of operatic enjoyment to me so sue me


My lawyers will contact your lawyers later today…😂😂😂

p.s. I’m following one of M.C.’s supposed dictums: “lt’s not enougjh to have a beautiful voice.” I may add: even Ponselle’s.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> p.s. I’m following one of M.C.’s supposed dictums: “lt’s not enougjh to have a beautiful voice.” I may add: even Ponselle’s.


But of course Ponselle never assumed that it was enough. If she had, Callas wouldn't have respected her.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> My lawyers will contact your lawyers later today…😂😂😂
> 
> p.s. I’m following one of M.C.’s supposed dictums: “lt’s not enougjh to have a beautiful voice.” I may add: even Ponselle’s.


I rarely have bad days but it came in threes yesterday. Thanks for your kind response. I fully respect the Callas devotees point of view. My aesthetic is not so finely tuned to hear all that you wonderful people hear. I do find her voice very beautiful earlier in the 50's. On the Puritani Sutherland had an edge up high but the middle of Callas' voice was more beautiful . By the way: is it Callas' or Callas's?


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Tulio Serafin supposedly once said, that he knew two miracles - Ponselle and Caruso, and some very good singers after that. I infer from that, that he had higher regard for Ponselle than Callas. If I don't hear this superiority, it might be due to less developed quality of the recording. I got better with these old recordings than before, but am still somewhat lost. From what I can hear, Callas fully satisfies me, it is exactly what I hoped for this aria. She has my vote.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I rarely have bad days but it came in threes yesterday. Thanks for your kind response. I fully respect the Callas devotees point of view. My aesthetic is not so finely tuned to hear all that you wonderful people hear. I do find her voice very beautiful earlier in the 50's. On the Puritani Sutherland had an edge up high but the middle of Callas' voice was more beautiful . *By the way: is it Callas' or Callas's?*


Calluses...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BBSVK said:


> Tulio Serafin supposedly once said, that he knew two miracles - Ponselle and Caruso, and some very good singers after that. I infer from that, that he had higher regard for Ponselle than Callas. If I don't hear this superiority, it might be due to less developed quality of the recording. I got better with these old recordings than before, but am still somewhat lost. From what I can hear, Callas fully satisfies me, it is exactly what I hoped for this aria. She has my vote.


Serafin was referring to inherent vocal endowment, and it was three miracles, Ruffo being the third.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tulio Serafin supposedly once said, that he knew two miracles - Ponselle and Caruso, and some very good singers after that. I infer from that, that he had higher regard for Ponselle than Callas. If I don't hear this superiority, it might be due to less developed quality of the recording. I got better with these old recordings than before, but am still somewhat lost. From what I can hear, Callas fully satisfies me, it is exactly what I hoped for this aria. She has my vote.
[/QUOTE]




Try this. The sound is wonderful and you can fully hear the incredibly beautiful dark rich power of her voice fully unfurled. Critics say this is her best recording. OMG! So beautiful. The other place you can really hear Ponselle at her finest is in Casta Diva, the full sceneThe power, beauty and flexibility of her voice was virtually unparalled.h? 



It was almost as big as Flagstad ( they had a contest) and had the whole tenor range tacked on ( see her Russian Gypsy Song sung way way way down low, an octave below sopranos. She started recording at age 22 and her interpretations got better as she aged. Also, believe this or not, she was discovered singing in Vaudeville and never had singing lessons. Never!!! She had coaches to teach her roles but that was all.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Calluses...


Speech to text insists that is what I say.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I rarely have bad days but it came in threes yesterday. Thanks for your kind response. I fully respect the Callas devotees point of view. My aesthetic is not so finely tuned to hear all that you wonderful people hear. I do find her voice very beautiful earlier in the 50's. On the Puritani Sutherland had an edge up high but the middle of Callas' voice was more beautiful . By the way: is it Callas' or Callas's?


Callas’s.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm having a terrible time with this one. I love Ponselle's trills and her commitment to the aria but that voice of La Divina's hitting me in the gut somehow gets right to me. Maria it is -- but by a hair.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I'm having a terrible time with this one. I love Ponselle's trills and her commitment to the aria but that voice of La Divina's hitting me in the gut somehow gets right to me. Maria it is -- but by a hair.


One of the critics called them “fat” trills. I suppose that is OK.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Farrell would have been able to acquit herself honorably - If you're not careful, you're going to second- and third-guess yourself into an early grave... I don't know what your heritage is but it's safe to say that we can definitely rule out Irish as we've always lived our lives by one simple rule... Act first, think afterwards -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you tell us how you're doing those "spoiler" links? I'm assuming it's a way to post several links without making it necessary for everybody to have to scroll, scroll, scroll through the thread. Are 3 regular Youtube links about the polite limit?

And speaking of Farrell and the radio--I found a mid-40's radio listing for Farrell and Bernard Herrmann doing "V'adoro, pupille" from Handel's Giulio Cesare, right there at 6:15 NY time, in their 15-minute segment between the news and the sports. Herrmann was supposedly an early advocate of style-appropriate ornamentation, but I know of no known recorded example. And it would have been a good vigorous workout for Cadet Farrell, then about 25. Does anybody have it?


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

It may not be enough to have a beautiful voice -- but it is still important. Callas (rightly) insists on the low notes, so I don't feel out of line insisting on the high notes.

Still, out of the two, it was Callas who did a better job convincing me that this music actually expresses the text it is set to. I'm still not _completely _convinced of that. That being said, there were certain moments I thought Ponselle did better.

For example, the line "più sempre Ernani mi configge in core". It sounded to me like the two singers had very similar intentions: softer, headier tone on the word "core" with an expressive crescendo and diminuendo. Only Ponselle really convinced me of that. I also liked Ponselle's trill much better. Callas' diminuendo was impressive, but the trill didn't really sound good or expressive to me because the voice seemed to be chafing. 

I will consider a little more, but right now I'm leaning Callas.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> . I note that the timing - 4'36" - is about the maximum possible on a 78 rpm record side, and it's clear that the tempi were carefully calibrated with that in mind.


Well, not quite. About 5:00 is the full limit for Victor (pre-RCA) electrics of this period. Ponselle did several sides at roughly 4:45, including ensembles, which would ideally have demanded more groove-space.

Live recordings of Met perfoprmances sugguest it was a period of snappy tempi--learning the wrong lesson from Toscanini? Worst example I know of, though, is a 1939 New York Philharmonic broadcast under Barbirolli of Tristan, Act 2, absolutely uncut, with Flagstad (her only uncut Tristan before the WWII hiatus as far as I know) but Eyvind Laholm instead of Melchior. Excerpt -






That has to be the most licketysplit Tristan I've ever heard.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

vivalagentenuova said:


> For example, the line "più sempre Ernani mi configge in core". It sounded to me like the two singers had very similar intentions: softer, headier tone on the word "core" with an expressive crescendo and diminuendo.


see also


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ewilkros said:


> *Can you tell us how you're doing those "spoiler" links?* I'm assuming it's a way to post several links without making it necessary for everybody to have to scroll, scroll, scroll through the thread. Are 3 regular Youtube links about the polite limit?


Sure, no problem, I'll walk you though the process - You can post as many spoilers in a thread as you want as they don't take up much in the way of real space however, only the first five will have the video drop down as the result of clicking on the spoiler - Anything more than five and the rest will be links rather than the video. I'll do six so that you can see what it looks like.

1) Find the video selection on YouTube - Swipe your mouse and copy what you see in the address bar at the top of your browser - Then paste it right into the post.

2) "Select" what you've just pasted in the post by swiping your mouse from left to right across to high-light it - The highlighting will be colored blue.

3) Look below your post at the formatting tools - Bold, Italic, Underlined, etc... Right next to the "Smiley" emoji is a drop down icon that reads "Insert" when you hover your mouse over it - Click on this - and the third entry is "Spoiler" - Click on the word "Spoiler" and an "Enter spoiler title" box will appear - Type whatever you want in that box to the right - I usually copy and paste the title under the video on the YouTube page

4) Click on Preview at the bottom of the formatting section, right next to "Post Reply" - If you don't see the spoiler box with the title - meaning that you're seeing the actual video embedded into the post - you took a wrong turn somewhere and need to delete what you've just done and start over.

If you did it right, this is what you should see -



Spoiler: Fatma Said, Marianne Crebassa – Offenbach: Barcarolle: Belle nuit ô nuit d’amour (Contes d'Hoffmann)











and just keep doing it until you've completed whatever it is that you're working on -



Spoiler: Delibes: Lakmé - Duo des fleurs (Flower Duet), Sabine Devieilhe & Marianne Crebassa













Spoiler: Mozart: Die Zauberflöte, K. 620, Act II: "Der Hölle Rache" (Queen of the Night Aria) – Jodie Devos













Spoiler: Tosca - Vissi d'arte (Angela Gheorghiu, The Royal Opera)













Spoiler: Elīna Garanča – Saint-Saëns: 'Mon coeur s'ouvre à ta voix' from Samson et Dalila (Romantique)












Elīna Garanča – Saint-Saëns: 'Mon coeur s'ouvre à ta voix' from Samson et Dalila (Romantique)


Elīna Garanča sings songs of love and despair -- an album for her fans! Watch this music video with Elīna Garanča and listen to her singing the Camille Saint...




www.youtube.com










Spoiler: Lucia di Lammermoor: Mad Scene (Natalie Dessay)











You'll notice that the last spoiler is the sixth and consequently it only appears as a link rather than as a drop down video.

It just takes a bit of practice and eventually you'll get the hang of it...


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> ... Also, believe this or not, [Ponselle] was discovered singing in Vaudeville and never had singing lessons. Never!!! She had coaches to teach her roles but that was all.


Yes, but apparently there was Vaudeville and there was _*Vaudeville*_, Do you (do y'all) know the Columbia 78 she and her sister Carmela, late the Ponzillo Sisters of Vaudeville, did of Comin' thro' the Rye, Dec 19 1919? All Bellini breaks loose about 1:10 in --

(Could only find 2 videos on YouTube, one underprocessed with 78 rpm noise left in and voices a little distant, and one overprocessed, with no noise and voices forward, but sounding like a singing computer, which it is...



Spoiler: Ponselle Sisters, Comin' thro' the Rye, 1919 -- minimal processing













Spoiler: Ponselle Sisters, Comin' thro' the Rye, 1919 - overprocessed (to me)











--who could hear that, particularly the Ponzillo Sister taking the upper part, and not say "Sign her up NOW!!!" ??


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Sure, no problem, I'll walk you though the process -


Thanks for the aid, see above for 1st go at it!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

What you say may be true, but I've noticed quite a few recordings from the acoustic era less than five minutes long with very uncomfortable tempos. It seems likely that even when there was enough time there was a psychological factor at play - perhaps an anxiety, but certainly a reasonable caution, against running too long. When Frida Leider recorded Isolde's Liebestod in the studio the result was rushed and perfunctory, but in the opera house, without time restraints, the music breathed, and the performance was something from another dimension.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Ponselle, because opera is about singing.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

A few years back I met someone at a party who was an opera fan (well, at least he claimed he was, but he said things like, the greatest soprano of all time, Renee Fleming).

Anyway, he mentioned this aria (and I imediately thought of Ponselle, Callas and Price, because you would think of at least one of those three when someone mentions this aria, wouldn't you?) He told me I should listen to the version sung by Anna Tomawa-Simtow on YouTube as it was a stunning performance. It was easy to find and was labeled 'The lovliest Ernani' and indeed it was the loveliest version of this piece. However, the aria might have well been a solo from a Mozart mass and there was no concept of character or dramatic interpretation.

The disappointment over the 'lovliest' version of this aria led me to compare Price, Ponselle and Callas. Unsurprisingly Ponselle was the best technically, but the overall winner was Callas due to the depth of her interpretation. 

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> A few years back I met someone at a party who was an opera fan (well, at least he claimed he was, but he said things like, the greatest soprano of all time, Renee Fleming).
> 
> Anyway, he mentioned this aria (and I imediately thought of Ponselle, Callas and Price, because you would think of at least one of those three when someone mentions this aria, wouldn't you?) He told me I should listen to the version sung by Anna Tomawa-Simtow on YouTube as it was a stunning performance. It was easy to find and was labeled 'The lovliest Ernani' and indeed it was the loveliest version of this piece. However, the aria might have well been a solo from a Mozart mass and there was no concept of character or dramatic interpretation.
> 
> ...


I remember hearing her version years ago and her voice was really beautiful in this aria but it didn't blow me out of the water. Thanks. I almost included Price but i have her in some things coming up. Price has the range needed for this piece. I really like her version. I'm always happy when you contribute.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I remember hearing her version years ago and her voice was really beautiful in this aria but it didn't blow me out of the water. Thanks. I almost included Price but i have her in some things coming up. Price has the range needed for this piece. I really like her version. I'm always happy when you contribute.


I love Price's version too. I've just given Claudia Muzio's version of the first half of the aria a listen and I think we can add that to the list of important interpretations of this music.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I love Price's version too. I've just given Claudia Muzio's version of the first half of the aria a listen and I think we can add that to the list of important interpretations of this music.
> 
> N.


I think 4 rounds is the optimal limit for contests or people get restless. I checked out Muzio but I didn't have room.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I think 4 rounds is the optimal limit for contests or people get restless. I checked out Muzio but I didn't have room.


I thought this was just a single round (and we already have the two finest singers of the aria IMO)?

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I thought this was just a single round (and we already have the two finest singers of the aria IMO)?
> 
> N.


It was originally a 4 soprano contest but things did not go well and I deleted the first round for various reasons and decided just to go with the two biggest contenders. Of course no one can ever win against Callas in the forum except perhaps the Liebestod.


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