# Why music?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Suggested by another thread: What does music "do"? Why do we listen to it, enjoy it, think it's important?

I look forward to thoughts on this!


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

It meets our need for order, beauty and intelligent conversation. We listen to it because it a) entertains us b) at a deeper level engages us.

We enjoy it if it "speaks" to us and says something that is important to us. One is reminded of a Grecian urn - beauty is truth, truth beauty. It lifts us to higher more spiritual realms and for this reason is important to us.

Good music becomes a friend, it reminds us that there is more to this life then, to quote another romantic,

"The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;"

Or to quote Pope

Some Beauties yet, no Precepts can declare,
For there's a Happiness as well as Care.
Musick resembles Poetry, in each
Are nameless Graces which no Methods teach,
And which a Master-Hand alone can reach.

And when we sense those nameless Graces, we are pleased and sense the glory of the Creator.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Music is universal and less limited by time and place compared to other arts. This also enables us to more easily project our own thoughts and feelings onto music.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I think it is a fundamental biological process. In the series of Leonard Bernstein lectures "Whither Music?" to which I don't have a link at the moment, and which I have not completed watching, he puts forth the theory that music and language developed at the same time. You have all probably already seen them. 

Music is so integral a part of being human, I think those who don't care for it are severely handicapped. It is vital to our health and well being. It is also a kind of magic. How else can you explain a composer dead for hundreds of years being able to impact our heart rates and our emotions? Some researchers say it even has a more profound physiological effect than sex.

What does it do? It is a kind of sonic empathy. That's my best guess.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is an interesting observation from Kurt Leland in Music and the Brain: "Through using MRIs, a team of brain researchers at the Montreal Neurological Institute at McGill University has discovered that when we listen to music, blood rushes away from areas of the brain linked to fear or depression and toward areas associated with intense pleasure: the same areas aroused by sex, chocolate, coffee, alcohol, and illicit drugs."


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Music allows us to "be" in time, with beauty. It structures time itself, in moments, and makes the absurdity of existence become meaningful. It can also do many other things.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

From infancy, humankind has the parents and others cooing, clucking, making noises, speaking to and singing to those infants.

That series of sounds, (including articulate speech) having at that stage absolutely no literal meaning to the infant, are nonetheless communicating something: attention; love; entertainment; succor and reassurances if / when hurt, angry, frustrated; movement when being rocked or carried around when the parent danced, _et cetera._

That is just a wild guess of what prompts, later, why we get what we seem to get from music, and why, past infancy, some are compelled to make music.

[ADD: Sound / music is the vibration of air. 
Ergo, music touches us, literally, all over. 
I cannot think of another art medium which comes at all close to doing that, none so directly and personally 'intimate.' 
What else comes anywhere near close to that? END ADD.]


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

millionrainbows said:


> Music allows us to "be" in time, with beauty. It structures time itself, in moments, and makes the absurdity of existence become meaningful. It can also do many other things.


You could probably say that of other arts too though.

Music is different in the direct impact it can have and how relatively easy it is to create some kind of music which can have a wide appeal. So you can see the huge explosion of popular music within the last century and how as a result it used the rise of recording technology to spread it's influence even further.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Music is mystical - a glint of the divine. It features in the creation stories of human religions - e.g. Siva Nataraja dancing the universe in & out of existence. I love the medieval Christian ideas of the music of the spheres, and the harmony of God & the soul as symbolised by the pipe & tabor blending perfectly. 

Music is ineffable: 'he who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.'


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Why not Space program?! *swings sword for the sake of science!* jk lol


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> Music allows us to "be" in time, with beauty. It structures time itself, in moments, and makes the absurdity of existence become meaningful. It can also do many other things.


...like sell cheeseburgers. "You deserve a break today..." :lol:


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> ...
> 
> Music is ineffable: 'he who knows does not speak; he who speaks does not know.'


It wasn't of music originally, but I am thrilled to find yet another person seeing the connection of Tao and music. Tao cannot be described in words; in music, it can. Music is not about this or that; music is why we are human.

There is more truth in music than in the world, as far as the truth is concerned. Why, music can never lie (the performer can).

My only qualm with the music - it takes you her way, never mind where you are or if you want to go there. But I don't complain. Not much.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

MichaelSolo said:


> music is why we are human.


Is it? What about other creatures like whales?


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

starry said:


> Is it? What about other creatures like whales?


Are Whales (or Dolphins) consciously musical?, or is what they produce only interpreted as musical by us humans?

/ptr


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## Jimm (Jun 29, 2012)

Music serves many purposes & hungers. For me, listening, composing and especially playing it myself .. is very therapeutic & healing, it just clears all the garbage in my mind away, puts me in a 'zone' .. and calms me tremendously. I have benefited in many other ways from a deep involvement & interest in this art, the deepest and richest of all the arts. And one of the greatest human activities & achievements in history. I need it like I need food & water.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Because it is a non toxic drug that is more addictive then any narcotic! And it releases more endorphins (in to my system anyway) then any sports I've ever tried does, and it is much, much less prone to inflicting serious injuries (to the user or others) than any of those sports and thus append lesser medical bills. 

/ptr


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Of course in all fairness some of it _is_ toxic. But I know we're discussing beneficial music, music that does have that endorphin effect on us.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Weston said:


> Of course in all fairness some of it _is_ toxic. But I know we're discussing beneficial music, music that does have that endorphin effect on us.


Yeah, You are quite right, that Beethoven and Wagner stuff always get the worst out of me, it creates a volatile enviroment as soon as You mention their names, should be banished all over! 

/ptr


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## raybenz (Apr 25, 2013)

Music is very necessary to relax when you have extra time from all day work then you can enjoy your favorite music.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Why music?


Sacrebleu, Monsieur Ken, I suspect this is a trick question, yes? An FBI-style entrapment plot? Before I play, can I bring my lawyer with me just in case?


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

Weston said:


> What does it do? It is a kind of *sonic empathy*. That's my best guess.


Damn right, it gives me the shivers and goosebumps.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

PetrB said:


> From infancy, humankind has the parents and others cooing, clucking, making noises, speaking to and singing to those infants.
> 
> That series of sounds, (including articulate speech) having at that stage absolutely no literal meaning to the infant, are nonetheless *communicating something*: attention; love; entertainment; succor and reassurances if / when hurt, angry, frustrated; movement when being rocked or carried around when the parent danced, _et cetera._


Yes, 'human utterances', which are 'signifiers' of one sort or other, have perhaps been abstracted into 'musical signifiers'. Or at very least human utterance can be exploited as a musical material. Some of the music of Berio, for example. To be honest, right now, I've lost track in my own mind of what I was trying to say (been a long day), but agreeing that there is something about the link between our 'physicality' and music.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

MichaelSolo said:


> There is more truth in music than in the world, as far as the truth is concerned. *Why, music can never lie* (the performer can).


Yes, but it can deceive. V-VI, anyone?
And those naughty Neapolitan sixths that (enharmonically) can lead you into some pretty wild goose chases. Tell you what, I really don't know what all the fuss is about 'atonality' being a 'problem' when tonality can be a duplicitous little *******!

(Note to the mods: '*******' here is used ironically, not literally, and the intention is humorous. Please substitute 'rascal' if there is risk of offense. Thank you.)


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Originally Posted by *Weston* 
What does it do? It is a kind of *sonic empathy*. That's my best guess.



TalkingHead said:


> Damn right, it gives me the shivers and goosebumps.


Yes, those new-age people speak of a thing called sympathetic vibration, or resonance. There's probably a lot to it.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Everything is vibrating all the time, music is the contextualisation of vibrations, therefore the universe is music. In establishing this, it becomes obvious _why music_: we are it.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

starry said:


> Is it? What about other creatures like whales?


Good question. I do admire whales for their oral tradition of transmitting their music. They don't get sidetracked by problems of notation, unlike us so-called 'sophisticated' humans. As I said to Wally the whale only the other day, you hum it and I'll play it. 
Dear Starry, this is one of my lame attempts at humour. Will you forgive me? Please?


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

ptr said:


> Because it is a non toxic drug that is more addictive then any narcotic! And it releases more endorphins (in to my system anyway) then any sports I've ever tried does, and it is much, *much less prone to inflicting serious injuries* (to the user or others) than any of those sports and thus append lesser medical bills.
> 
> /ptr


Not true, Sir! You are forgetting the serious injury you risked when attempting to kiss some double bass after quaffing your fancy and expensive Chateau Yquem. Why did you attempt to kiss the double bass when it was being played frantically in the closing bars of [enter here the name of any Bruckner symphony that ends - usually 1st or 4th movement - with huge amounts of scrubbing (i.e. tremolo)]? No Sir, music *is* dangerous.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Yes, those new-age people speak of a thing called sympathetic vibration, or resonance. There's probably a lot to it.[/QUOTE]
> 'Those' new-age people? Ah, the 'other', you mean? Tree huggers is another expression I have heard used. I am only able to hug saplings, even though I'm not a small person. Still, being neither new-age, into hugging tress or vegan, I do maintain that much music gives me the shivers and goosebumps, from Pérotin to Parmegiani. And I do wish that the French and Italians could come up with and market two exciting new cheeses based on the names of those two composers.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> Here is an interesting observation from Kurt Leland in Music and the Brain: "Through using MRIs, a team of brain researchers at the Montreal Neurological Institute at McGill University has discovered that when we listen to music, blood rushes away from areas of the brain linked to fear or depression and toward areas associated with intense pleasure: the same areas aroused by sex, chocolate, coffee, alcohol, and illicit drugs."


I suppose that only applies to music we actually like.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

Crudblud said:


> Everything is vibrating all the time, music is the contextualisation of vibrations, therefore the universe is music. In establishing this, it becomes obvious _why music_: we are it.


Yes, music can only be about sound waves, that much is certain! Off on a wild tangent here, nothing replaces live music for the sheer 'physicality' of it (or at least its mechanical reproduction), but how do we 'vibrate in empathy' when listening to a score?
I can 'hear' scores (depending very much on their complexity, of course), but it's never the same as actually hearing the music via the eardrums. We learn that Beethoven could read scores and hear them 'internally' like you and I read the newspaper without having to read the words out loud. But I'm damned sure Beethoven never thought that was an advantage over being deaf, poor *******.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

I don't know about shivers and vibrations. I went to the Notting Hill Carnival once and a truck rolled past with a bloody great boom box on it, blaring Jamaican music so loud, the throb tickled my ribcage and I myself vibrated backwards like an old washing machine moving cross the kitchen floor on a fast spin.

Music is innate, like mathematics and philosophy and dance. It's part of our make up. It may have to do with ancient mating rituals or courtship in the primitive times, but it stimulates a response from us, to something that's in the music. It mirrors us, maybe, or reflects us. I don't know how music works or why, just that it's part of our collective speech patterns, signals and codes. It's part of how we communicate, as natural as hand gestures and drawings and emails and poems and plays...


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> 'Those' new-age people? Ah, the 'other', you mean? Tree huggers is another expression I have heard used. I am only able to hug saplings, even though I'm not a small person. Still, being neither new-age, into hugging tress or vegan, I do maintain that much music gives me the shivers and goosebumps, from Pérotin to Parmegiani. *And I do wish that the French and Italians could come up with and market two exciting new cheeses based on the names of those two composers*.


This post is only for the eyes of Ptr and KenOC:

*Waiter*: Some cheese, Gentlemen, before your dessert?
*Ptr & KenOC* : What do you recommend?
*Waiter*: Well, we have a fresh delivery of a rather runny and over-fragrant, goat's milk _*Pérotin*_ from Normandy, or if you prefer a harder texture, a very tangy, 12-month matured _*Parmegiani*_ from the Lombardy region.
*Ptr & KenOC*: And what wine do you suggest?
*Waiter*: Chateau Yquem with the *Pérotin*, and a crisp white Lugana with the _*Parmegiani*_, or perhaps a late burgundy _*Heinzheimer Quetschup*_ for our friend from California.
*Ptr & KenOC*: Bring it on!
*Waiter* (to the Maître d'): Two bottles of the rough and ready house red and white with the fancy generic label, Marcel, OK?


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Not true, Sir! You are forgetting the serious injury you risked when attempting to kiss some double bass after quaffing your fancy and expensive Chateau Yquem. Why did you attempt to kiss the double bass when it was being played frantically in the closing bars of [enter here the name of any Bruckner symphony that ends - usually 1st or 4th movement - with huge amounts of scrubbing (i.e. tremolo)]? No Sir, music *is* dangerous.


My good man, You trump me with my own inadequacies! This is why I avoid liquid intoxications around handsome double basses, but I'm not fully convinced that Bruckner scrubbing is a part of dangerous!

/ptr


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2013)

ptr said:


> My good man, You trump me with my own inadequacies! This is why I avoid liquid intoxications around handsome double basses, but *I'm not fully convinced that Bruckner scrubbing is a part of dangerous*! /ptr


You, Sir, are not a scrubber, and clearly have no conception of close-encounter scrubbing of the Bruckner kind when on a platform of limited square metres. I, on the other hand, am a squalid, ugly scrubber used to close-combat scrubbing and I give no quarter. Forget pistols at dawn, I'm all for bows at 20h30 !!!


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Yes, but it can deceive. V-VI, anyone?
> And those naughty Neapolitan sixths that (enharmonically) can lead you into some pretty wild goose chases. Tell you what, I really don't know what all the fuss is about 'atonality' being a 'problem' when tonality can be a duplicitous little *******!
> ...




As old Bundy said when offering his daughter an advice on the period cramps, "Just stretch".

Also, as my violin teacher told me every so often, when I was concentrating on some technological things, when a centipede began thinking of what its thirty eights foot was doing, it dislearned to walk.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> You, Sir, are not a scrubber, and clearly have no conception of close-encounter scrubbing of the Bruckner kind when on a platform of limited square metres. I, on the other hand, am a squalid, ugly scrubber used to close-combat scrubbing and I give no quarter. Forget pistols at dawn, I'm all for bows at 20h30 !!!


Thank You for noticing yet another of inadequacies, I have no conceptions of Bruckner what so ever and I'm all the better for it. You may well hold a bow to my head, but I am not the fairing kind, I take Your bow and raise You a Quart of Sweet Summer Wine @ the sign of any striking clock!

/ptr


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ptr said:


> Thank You for noticing yet another of inadequacies, I have no conceptions of Bruckner what so ever and I'm all the better for it. You may well hold a bow to my head, but I am not the fairing kind, I take Your bow and raise You a Quart of Sweet Summer Wine @ the sign of any striking clock!
> 
> /ptr


...or you could take out a gun and shoot that bassist as dead as Bruckner, and become a sort of anti-hero saint to all the hopeful struggling young professional bassists -- because you will have just opened up a pro orchestra chair position!


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

it's a purposeful and controlled way to inflame the senses and gain nourishment of the body and mind.

the ability to control nature via music or others arts makes you feel better or worse if its bad music. this boosts health, mind and mating.


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

^^^

I like the mating part of it.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

If music is really a more primitive natural thing than then I think that shows that some other animals with less developed brains would be able to use and need music too. And as for being 'consciously musical' if that means individually creative then yes I think I have heard of that in other animals. Of course our brains process sound in a particular way, so we don't hear exactly what other animals hear and they often don't hear exactly what we hear. Ultimately the origins of music among different animals (including us) is probably communication. Our brains have probably helped mystify music, though much of that has surely been wiped away with scientific knowledge.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

What about birds? They can copy tunes & even though singing is to mark territory, it's hard not to think that they appreciate it too...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> What about birds? They can copy tunes & even though singing is to mark territory, it's hard not to think that they appreciate it too...


Birds also use their chirps to attract mates, so obviously some chirps are judged better than others. No doubt there are avian aficionados of various schools of chirping who wrangle endlessly among themselves, perhaps strange birds who hold that not chirping is in fact a type of chirping, and certainly little birdie discussion forums on just this topic...


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> What about birds? They can copy tunes & even though singing is to mark territory, it's hard not to think that they appreciate it too...


You know, I just realized all birds sing about is love and how to make it. Scary..


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

because music is the best


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

KenOC said:


> Birds also use their chirps to attract mates, so obviously some chirps are judged better than others. No doubt there are avian aficionados of various schools of chirping who wrangle endlessly among themselves, perhaps strange birds who hold that not chirping is in fact a type of chirping, and certainly little birdie discussion forums on just this topic...


To us it is just a chirp, but they hear things much slower than us so it sounds totally different to them.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MichaelSolo said:


> You know, I just realized all birds sing about is love and how to make it. Scary..


Au contraire, mon ami - they sing about war & how to make it too. 'Hey you, strange Robin, get off my patch or I'll peck you to death...!' 

Edit - KenOC, your post about chirping is brill!


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Suggested by another thread: What does music "do"? Why do we listen to it, enjoy it, think it's important?
> 
> I look forward to thoughts on this!


What does it do? Orders, calms, energises, delights, challenges, educates, saddens...etc
Why do we listen to it, enjoy it? Because it orders, calms, delights...etc etc
Why do we think it's important? Because it orders....etc
But also, because it can tell others who we are, and tells us who others are.


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

Also music can make you laugh. Most pure and clean kind of jokes it has. That is how I know laughter is an irreplaceable, basic part of humanity - regardless of all those "other" ideas.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MichaelSolo said:


> Also music can make you laugh. Most pure and clean kind of jokes it has. That is how I know laughter is an irreplaceable, basic part of humanity - regardless of all those "other" ideas.


I could name some pieces that make me laugh, but it might start another war...


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

If music be the food of love, play on,
Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die

-Billy Shakespeare; Duke Orsino from Twelfth Night


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

KenOC said:


> I could name some pieces that make me laugh, but it might start another war...


Yeah, some that make me laugh when I should be silent...


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Mitchell said:


> If music be the food of love, play on,
> Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
> The appetite may sicken, and so die
> 
> -Billy Shakespeare; Duke Orsino from Twelfth Night


Of course, he wasn't really 'in love', at the time, just 'in love with love', which sadly suggests that his love of music was part of his affectation. 
He was supposedly madly in love with Olivia but abided by her restrictions & sent his servants to woo her instead. On learning that Olivia had got married, he quickly transferred his affections to Viola...
Thanks for the quote, though. 'Twelfth Night' is my favourite Shakespearean comedy.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I could name some pieces that make me laugh, but it might start another war...


... and quite a few that you're 'supposed to' laugh at but are quite unfunny...


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## Guest (May 5, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> What about birds? They can copy tunes & *even though singing is to mark territory*, it's hard not to think that they appreciate it too...


Hmm, sounds like a potential theme for one of those TC polls (just a silly proposition, mind!): 
"All things being equal, what 'territory' do you think your favourite music/composer marks out?"
A response example: Beethoven (as noble eagle) warbles his heroism and rapacious devouring of ... (continues thus for 94 pages).


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## Guest (May 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Birds also use their chirps to attract mates, so obviously some chirps are judged better than others. No doubt there are avian aficionados of various schools of chirping who wrangle endlessly among themselves, perhaps strange birds who hold that not chirping is in fact a type of chirping, and certainly little birdie discussion forums on just this topic...


Bah oui! C'est ça que je voulais dire, merde! 
Signed: Olivier Messiaen


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## Guest (May 5, 2013)

MichaelSolo said:


> You know, I just realized all birds sing about is love and how to make it. Scary..


Jeez MikeySolo, I read you with interest, really I do, but sometimes your syntax leaves me a bit 
aah, er ... perplexed. It reminds me of a grammarian's enigmatic book title : "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation."


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## Guest (May 5, 2013)

MichaelSolo said:


> Also music can make you laugh. *Most pure and clean kind of jokes it has*. That is how I know laughter is an irreplaceable, basic part of humanity - regardless of all those "other" ideas.


You Yodi are? You verb 'Germanically' at end of phrase always place? You Beethoven string quartet marking "A joke at the Bridge" know? You string player are and big 'hah hah' joke understand? You me explain. Please.


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

Don't know much about right-brain/left-brain stuff, but I think it goes directly to my own personal right-brain. Which is where I mostly live. So it enhances my sense of Self-hood. 
Not wishing to sidetrack this thread, sometimes I think about the Deaf community. Specifically, the faction that is not in favor of cochlear implants. The argument being that the Deaf culture is rich and complete, (which I, as a hearing person, _believe_ I can understand and agree with) and that, therefore, cochlear implants take the person outside of their community's culture, therefore it's a bad thing. 
I tried thinking of the analogy of, say, a corneal transplant for a blind person. But it fails, in my opinion, because the blind community, as far as I can tell, isn't cohesive like the Deaf community often seems to be. Don't know if that means blindness is more isolating than deafness, that'd be for someone else to investigate. 
At any rate, if I were the (deaf) parent of a deaf child, I wonder if I'd feel ambivalent about that child getting a cochlear implant. 
But I digress. As a hearing person, I do feel nourished on an emotional, physiological, intellectual, and spiritual level by beautiful music.


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> You Yodi are? You verb 'Germanically' at end of phrase always place? You Beethoven string quartet marking "A joke at the Bridge" know? You string player are and big 'hah hah' joke understand? You me explain. Please.


Break me the ...en give!


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Man needs Art to live; music is just a certain kind of Art. I honestly don't see much difference between music and the other Arts.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I need it as much as love.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Xaltotun said:


> Man needs Art to live


But why is that? Is it a form of expression that's needed or a kind of creativity? Or a communal experience?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

starry said:


> But why is that? Is it a form of expression that's needed or a kind of creativity? Or a communal experience?


All three; ranked differently by different people. But for me, music is the creation of beauty. Now that I am a Christian, I see it as sharing in God's work & a form of prayer - 'he who sings, prays twice' etc. When I wasn't, I would have seen it as formulating for oneself a truth about the universe.


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## Jovian (May 4, 2013)

Because music makes us feel good. It gives a peace of mind and without music there is no life..


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> All three; ranked differently by different people. But for me, music is the creation of beauty. Now that I am a Christian, I see it as sharing in God's work & a form of prayer - 'he who sings, prays twice' etc. When I wasn't, I would have seen it as formulating for oneself a truth about the universe.


That sounds like me but in reverse............... Maybe thats why my preference is Avant garde music! :angel::devil:


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

starry said:


> But why is that? Is it a form of expression that's needed or a kind of creativity? Or a communal experience?


Hegel would say that Art is a form of thinking. It helps us become self-conscious. We project our own image upon the external world, to gain knowledge both about that world and ourselves. Without Art, thinking is hard and easily becomes shallow.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Xaltotun said:


> Hegel would say that Art is a form of thinking. It helps us become self-conscious. We project our own image upon the external world, to gain knowledge both about that world and ourselves. Without Art, thinking is hard and easily becomes shallow.


I like this idea - I like any reflection on what the children's writer E. Nesbit called 'our inside-realness'. But I think some of us are very self-conscious from early childhood, before we come across art, so maybe music 'hones' or 'intensifies' or 'directs' thought or self-awareness?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Xaltotun said:


> Hegel would say that Art is a form of thinking. It helps us become self-conscious. We project our own image upon the external world, to gain knowledge both about that world and ourselves. Without Art, thinking is hard and easily becomes shallow.


This is the "dark side" of art. By enabling us to project our own image on the external world, we lose the ability to see the world as it really is. Instead, we see a self-idealized version of it only.


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## petter (Apr 29, 2013)

Why does art exists anyway? It has no survival or evolutionary purpose, or? Our senses are only mediums for our brain to make us aware of the world. I don't know why our hearing has so direct emotional connection. When we hear cries we feel compassion, if we hear laughter we feel happier. 

Tricky questions!


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Suggested by another thread: What does music "do"? Why do we listen to it, enjoy it, think it's important?
> 
> I look forward to thoughts on this!


Well I love playing music because it can tell me things about me I never. For example I didn't feel angry but when I played Chopin F minor fantasy I went absolutely nuts in the middle section.


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## MichaelSolo (Mar 12, 2013)

petter said:


> Why does art exists anyway? It has no survival or evolutionary purpose, or? Our senses are only mediums for our brain to make us aware of the world. I don't know why our hearing has so direct emotional connection. When we hear cries we feel compassion, if we hear laughter we feel happier.
> 
> Tricky questions!


Because with art, we understand the meaning otherwise unfathomable. The art is not a trinket, entertaining and disposable at will. The art heals as well as it kills - with lines stumbling in the throat, with chord placed where is no hope, with our dreams that come per chance in sleep.

To me, it is all about Tao. You cannot even notice it otherwise (yes, the art is way the nature is).


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## Guest (May 16, 2013)

petter said:


> Why does art exists anyway? It has no survival or evolutionary purpose [...]


Really? Says who?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Really? Says who?


Good point. Ritual paintings of animals on cave walls - songs - dances - unifying the tribe & enabling them to survive.
Extremely purposeful.


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