# Conductors commended by Mahler



## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

What Mahler symphony recordings are there by conductors whom Mahler commended? I can think of the following:

1: Walter, Adler, Klemperer
2: Fried, Walter, Adler, Klemperer
3: Adler
4: Mengelberg, Walter, Klemperer
5: Walter
6: Adler
7: Klemperer
Lied v. d. Erde: Walter, Klemperer
9: Walter, Klemperer

(I've omitted partial recordings, e.g. Mengelberg's 5 Adagietto and Adler's 10 Adagio.)

Are there others? E.g., what about Barbirolli? Raised by this interesting comment in another thread:



Becca said:


> If I really wanted to listen to the Wunderhorn symphonies with a conductor who had a long involvement with Mahler than most (albeit nowhere near as much as Walter & Klemperer), it would be Barbirolli.


I know Barbirolli was in correspondence with Mahler. Did M ever hear B conduct, and if so, did he comment on it?

And what about Stokowski? He attended the premiere of the 8th, and he recorded 2 and 8. Did M ever hear him conduct?

Of course the above list doesn't show How Mahler Wanted His Symphonies Conducted. What it shows is almost the opposite: that Mahler liked an amazing diversity of conducting styles. (A good excuse for those of us who collect different recordings of the same Mahler symphony!)

It's worth remembering, too, that these conductors stood in quite different relations to Mahler. Mengelberg was an honored contemporary; Walter was a close follower; Klemperer was a young guy whose conducting Mahler approved, and whose career he wanted to assist.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Barbirolli was born in 1899, Mahler died in 1911 so I kinda doubt that they corresponded  Having said that, Barbirolli became the music director of the New York Philharmonic in 1936 at which time I believe that there were still some musicians who had played under Mahler. What might be interesting to know is if Barbirolli had any contact with either Walter or Klemperer - quite possibly in the New York years. When I referred to his connection to Mahler, I was meaning that he got onto the post-war Mahler Bandwagon in the mid 1950s before there was much of a Bandwagon.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Becca said:


> Barbirolli was born in 1899, Mahler died in 1911 so I kinda doubt that they corresponded


Don't know why, but I get this feeling that you may have a cogent argument there....


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

I've constructed a rough discography of these conductors' Mahler recordings. I've OMITTED incomplete recordings (except for two particularly famous recordings of isolated movements). I've specified record companies only where I've heard the recording personally, know it to be complete, and believe the sound quality to be about as good as could reasonably be expected.

Walter's style of performance changed greatly over the years, and so did Klemperer's. In both cases, you can't necessarily assume that what the conductor did with a particular symphony on one occasion is representative of what he _always_ did!

* = the most widely distributed recordings (not necessarily the "best" ones). If you're wondering which version you have on your shelves already, it's likely to be one of these.

*Symphony No. 1*
1939-04-08: Bruno Walter, conducting NBC Symphony Orchestra (Music & Arts)
1942-10-25: Bruno Walter, conducting New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra (Music & Arts)
1947-10-16: Bruno Walter, conducting Concertgebouworkest (Tahra)
1947-11-06: Bruno Walter, conducting London Philharmonic Orchestra (Testament)
1950-10-02: Bruno Walter, conducting Bayerisches Staatsorchester München (Orfeo)
1954-01-24: Bruno Walter, conducting New York Philharmonic
*1954-01-25: Bruno Walter, conducting New York Philharmonic (Sony)
1955-05-15: Bruno Walter, conducting BBC Symphony Orchestra (ICA)
*1961-01-14~02-06: Bruno Walter, conducting Columbia Symphony Orchestra (Sony)
1952-03-06: Charles Adler, conducting Wiener Symphoniker (Tahra)
[As with most of Mahler's symphonies, Walter's early recordings are markedly faster & tenser than his later ones. If choosing one of the early recordings, note particularly the 1942 Music & Arts set, which also includes Walter's 1942 recording of Mahler's Second.]

*Symphony No. 2*
1924: Oskar Fried, conducting Gertrud Bindernagel, Emmi Leisner, Berliner Dom Chor, Kapelle der Staatsoper Berlin (Naxos)
1942-01-25 [in English]: Bruno Walter, conducting Nadine Conner, Mona Paulee, Westminster Choir, New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra (Music & Arts)
1948-05-15: Bruno Walter, conducting Maria Cebotari, Rosette Anday, Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor, Wiener Philharmoniker (Sony)
1948-12-05 [in English]: Bruno Walter, conducting Nadine Conner, Joan Watson, Westminster Choir, New York Philharmonic (Immortal Performances)
1957-02-17: Bruno Walter, conducting Maria Stader, Maureen Forrester, Westminster Choir, Philharmonic-Symphony Orchestra (Music & Arts)
*1957-02-18~1958-02-21: Bruno Walter, conducting Emilia Cundari, Maureen Forrester, Westminster Choir, New York Philharmonic (Sony)
1956-03-29: Charles Adler, conducting Anny Felbermayer, Sonja Dreksler, ORF Chor, Wiener Symphoniker (Music & Arts)
1950-09-23~25: Otto Klemperer, conducting Vlada Bagnali, Florence Taylor, Hurlstone Choral Society, Sydney Symphony Orchestra (Doremi; ABC Classics)
1951-05: Otto Klemperer, conducting Ilona Steingrüber, Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Akademiekammerchor, Singverein der Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde, Wiener Symphoniker (Vox)
1951-05-18: Otto Klemperer, conducting Ilona Steingrüber, Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Akademiekammerchor, Singverein der Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde, Wiener Symphoniker (Testament)
*1951-07-12: Otto Klemperer, conducting Jo Vincent, Kathleen Ferrier, Amsterdam Toonkunstchor, Concertgebouworkest (Decca; Guild)
*1961-11-22~1962-03-24: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Philharmonia Chorus, Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI)
1963-06-13: Otto Klemperer, conducting Galina Vishnevskaya, Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor, Wiener Philharmoniker (Music & Arts)
1963-12-19: Otto Klemperer, conducting Heather Harper, Janet Baker, Philharmonia Chorus, Philharmonia Orchestra (Testament)
*1965-01-28: Otto Klemperer, conducting Heather Harper, Janet Baker, Bayerisches Rundfunk Chor, Symphonie-Orchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks (EMI)
1971-03-16: Otto Klemperer, conducting Anne Finley, Alfreda Hodgson, New Philharmonia Chorus, New Philharmonia Orchestra
[Fried's 1924 was necessarily a reorchestration for a small group of players crowded around an acoustic recording horn; if that can be accepted, it has many points of interest. Walter's 1957-1958 studio recording took a year to complete because of his heart trouble; without that interruption, it might have been more similar to his 1957-02-17 live recording, which is also valuable for the presence of Stader (unavailable for the studio recording because of contractual obligations).]

*Symphony No. 3*
1952-04-20: Charles Adler, conducting Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor, Wiener Sängerknaben, Wiener Symphoniker (Tahra)
*1952-04-20~27: Charles Adler, conducting Hilde Rössl-Majdan, Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor, Wiener Sängerknaben, Wiener Symphoniker (Conifer; Music & Arts)
[Adler was Mahler's assistant during 1908-1911, and his Mahler recordings have been widely admired (by Bernstein among others), though the orchestral playing sometimes requires tolerance. His 1952-04-20 live Third is more intense, sometimes more wayward, and 10 mins faster than the studio one; I'd find it difficult to summarize the differences in a short space, and I'm not sure which I'd prefer overall!]

*Symphony No. 4*
*1939-11-09: Willem Mengelberg, conducting Jo Vincent, Concertgebouworkest (Philips)
*1945-05-10: Bruno Walter, conducting Desi Halban, New York Philharmonic (Sony; Naxos)
1947-03-25: Bruno Walter, conducting Desi Halban, Boston Symphony Orchestra
*1950-08-24: Bruno Walter, conducting Irmgard Seefried, Wiener Philharmoniker (Orfeo)
1950-09-04: Bruno Walter, conducting Annelies Kupper, Stadtisches Opernhaus und Museum Orchester, Frankfurt
1952-04-19: Bruno Walter, conducting Carla Schlean, Orchestra Sinfonica della RAI di Roma (Tahra)
1952-06-06: Bruno Walter, conducting Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Concertgebouworkest
1952-06-19: Bruno Walter, conducting Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Concertgebouworkest (Tahra)
1953-01-04: Bruno Walter, conducting Irmgard Seefried, New York Philharmonic (Music & Arts)
1955-05-12: Bruno Walter, conducting Maria Stader, Orchestre National de la RTF (Tahra)
*1955-11-06: Bruno Walter, conducting Hilde Güden, Wiener Philharmoniker (Deutsche Grammophon)
1960-05-29: Bruno Walter, conducting Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Wiener Philharmoniker (Music & Arts)
1954-02-21: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elfriede Trötschel, Kölner Westdeutschen Rundfunk Symphonie Orchester (Frequenz; Archiphon)
1955-06-21: Otto Klemperer, conducting Teresa Stich-Randall, Wiener Symphoniker (Testament)
1955-11-12: Otto Klemperer, conducting Maria Stader, Concertgebouworkest (Audiophile)
1956-02-12: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elfriede Trötschel, RIAS Symphonie Orchester Berlin (Audite)
1956-10-19: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elisabeth Lindermeier, Symphonie-Orchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks (Music & Arts)
*1961-04-06~25: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI)
[Walter's 1960 recording is very different from his others, uniquely slow & serene, perhaps valedictory (Music & Arts entitled their set "Farewell to the Vienna Philharmonic"). Among Klemperer's various recordings, the 1961 studio version naturally has the best _recorded sound,_ but the best _performance_ is probably 1955-11-12, partly because it has the orchestra then most familiar with & sympathetic to Mahler's idiom (Concertgebouw), and partly because it has the most aptly cast soloist (Stader; Schwarzkopf is generally felt to be unsuited for the naïvety of this role). This performance is also available on Archiphon, in better recorded sound than Audiophile, but with two painful 1-second dropouts in the first movement, whereas the Audiophile transfer is absolutely complete. Stich-Randall is exactly as you'd expect: she has an angelically beautiful voice but her delivery of the words is remarkably inexpressive. Lindermeier, with a darker timbre than usual (closer to boy alto than boy soprano) and excellent expression, is also worth hearing. Mengelberg's extraordinary recording shouldn't be missed by anyone with an interest in the history of Mahler recordings.]


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

*Symphony No. 5*
*1947-02-10: Bruno Walter, conducting New York Philharmonic (Sony; Naxos)
[In addition, Mengelberg recorded the Adagietto.]

*Symphony No. 6*
*1952: Charles Adler, conducting Wiener Symphoniker (Conifer; Tahra)

*Symphony No. 7*
*1968-09-18~28: Otto Klemperer, conducting New Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI)

*Symphony No. 8*
[No conductor commended by Mahler recorded this. There is a recording of a 1950 live performance by Stokowski, who had attended some of Mahler's rehearsals and the first performance. It has many points of interest, despite rather gray, opaque recorded sound-but whether Mahler would have approved what Stokowski does is anyone's guess!]

*Das Lied von der Erde*
*1936-05-23~24: Bruno Walter, conducting Kerstin Thorborg, Charles Kullman, Wiener Philharmoniker (EMI; Naxos; Opus Kura)
1948-01-18: Bruno Walter, conducting Kathleen Ferrier, Set Svanholm, New York Philharmonic (Somm)
*1952-05-14~16: Bruno Walter, conducting Kathleen Ferrier, Julius Patzak, Wiener Philharmoniker (Decca; Naxos)
1952-05-17: Bruno Walter, conducting Kathleen Ferrier, Julius Patzak, Wiener Philharmoniker (Tahra)
1953-02-22: Bruno Walter, conducting Elena Nikolaidi, Set Svanholm, New York Philharmonic (Music & Arts)
1960-04-16: Bruno Walter, conducting Maureen Forrester, Richard Lewis, New York Philharmonic (Music & Arts)
*1960-04-18~24: Bruno Walter, conducting Mildred Miller, Ernst Haefliger, New York Philharmonic (Sony)
*1951-05: Otto Klemperer, conducting Elsa Cavelti, Anton Dermota, Wiener Symphoniker (Vox)
*1964-11-07~1966-07-09: Otto Klemperer, conducting Christa Ludwig, Fritz Wunderlich, Philharmonia & New Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI)
[Every one of these seems to me of great interest! Note that Walter's 1952-05-17 live performance is preferred to the famous studio recording that preceded it, by most of those who have had opportunity to compare the two.]

*Symphony No. 9*
*1938-01-16: Bruno Walter, conducting Wiener Philharmoniker (EMI; Naxos; Opus Kura)
*1961-01-16~02-06: Bruno Walter, conducting Columbia Symphony Orchestra (Sony)
*1967-02-15~24: Otto Klemperer, conducting New Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI)
1968-06-09: Otto Klemperer, conducting Wiener Philharmoniker (Testament)
1968-08-30: Otto Klemperer, conducting New Philharmonia Orchestra
1970-08-04: Otto Klemperer, conducting IBA Symphony Orchestra & Gadna Orchestra

*Symphony No. 10*
[Adler recorded the Adagio.]


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Becca said:


> Barbirolli was born in 1899, Mahler died in 1911 so I kinda doubt that they corresponded





gvn said:


> Don't know why, but I get this feeling that you may have a cogent argument there....


Of course, there's no accounting for precocity!








"Gentlemen ... and ladies. From the beginning, please, at letter A ...
Langsam, Schleppend. Im Anfang Sehr Gemächlich.
A one and a two and a --"


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

OT the Busch brothers as precocious kids around 1900 wrote a letter to Richard Strauss respectfully asking him please to refrain from composing a tone poem on the pre comic strip picture stories of Max and Moritz, because they were working on them already.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

Looking back at this list of recordings, two things strike me.

1. Mahler loved _personal_ conductors... even when, like Mengelberg, they substantially reshaped his tempi & dynamics... as long as the performances were _alive_. I strongly suspect that he would have considered a lot of present-day conductors far too impersonal (not only in his own music, but also in Beethoven, Brahms, etc.).

2. Mahler loved _diversity_ in conducting--just as his _music_ loves diversity. Thinking about the implications of this, I strongly suspect he would have loved the fact that both Walter & Klemperer never fossilized, never gave stock performances of his symphonies, but approached them in fresh & different ways every time they conducted them. I don't think he would have wanted us to ask for a "definitive" performance of any of his symphonies. I don't think he would have believed there could be such a thing. "After I'm gone," he told Walter, "if anything in my music ever doesn't sound right, change it."


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Your lists are excellent & comprehensive, based on my own similar exploration of this subject (done several years ago), & you even mention Stokowski for the 8th! Although not specifically "commended" by Mahler, the only addition I can offer is conductor Herman Scherchen, who is thought to have played in an orchestra that Mahler conducted.

A secondary list might be drawn up of Mahler conductors that were heavily influenced by these conductors. For example, Leonard Bernstein said that his Mahler conducting was strongly influenced by hearing F. Charles Adler's recordings (& I've long wondered, if also from possibly hearing Adler conduct Mahler at Saratoga Springs, NY?). In addition, Riccardo Chailly closely studied Willem Mengelberg's Mahler conducting scores for his 1st cycle in Amsterdam, which, if memory serves, contain notations and direct quotes from Mahler to Mengelberg written on them. They are in the possession of the Concertgebouw Orchestra.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

(Deleted, information already present in the thread).


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## Parley (May 29, 2021)

There is obviously no definitive way of doing Mahler as conductors who worked with the composer - Walter, Klemperer, Megelberg, etc - had quite different approaches. That is how it should be as a performance is a recreation.


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