# Your Top 10 Second Symphonies!



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Continuing the quest!
What are, in your opinion, the greatest, or just your personal favorite _second_ symphonies?

Here's my list. It seems easier to choose, since for most composers, their second symphonies are more memorable than their first.

1. Brahms
2. Elgar
3. Schmidt
4. Schumann
5. Prokofiev
6. Borodin
7. Sibelius
8. Honegger
9. Rheinberger ("Florentiner")
10. Furtwängler

EDIT: How could I forget my favorite Prokofiev symphony? Sorry Rimsky, sacrificing your Antar...


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

OTTOMH:


Mahler
Suk ('Asrael')
Brahms
Sibelius
Vaughan Williams ('London')
Bax
Schmidt
Elgar
Nielsen
Bruckner


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Brahms
Mahler
Beethoven
Schumann
Ives
Hartmann ("Adagio")
Sibelius
Weill
Borodin
Rimsky "Antar" (IMO his best purely instrumental work, superior to the omnipresent Sheherazade)

(I cut Stravinsky because the are unnumbered and I am not really sure if the Symphony of Psalms should be #2 or the Symphony in C, although they would both be worthy, I think of the former less of a symphony than a sacred choral work)


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Top symphonies that last only 10 seconds? Change your header, will ya? I cleaned my toilet in prep for the all No.2s ready to be dumped ...


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Mahler
Sibelius
Brahms
Prokofiev
Hartmann
Larcher
Szymanowski
Narbutaite
Sallinen
Dutilleux


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

1.Schubert 9 C major (The Great)
2.Beethoven 5 C minor
3.Beethoven 7 A major 
4.Beethoven 9 D minor (Chorale)
5.Haydn 45 F# minor (Farewell)
6.Mahler 9 D major
7.Schumann 4 D minor
8.Mozart (compilation the early symphonies)
9.Bach The Brandenburg Concerto's (sort of precursor to modern symphony sort of but I think good enough to qualify)
10.Schubert 5 B flat major


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

1. Mahler
2. Brahms
3. Mendelssohn
4. Franck (the symphony in D minor is his second ...)
5. Tubin
6. Holmboe
7. Norgard
8. Honegger
9. Hartmann
10. Sibelius


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

bagpipers said:


> 9.Bach The Brandenburg Concerto's (sort of precursor to modern symphony sort of but I think good enough to qualify)


The Brandenburgs are chamber music with mostly one player to a part, aren't they?


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Philidor said:


> The Brandenburgs are chamber music with mostly one player to a part, aren't they?


Yes,there not really a symphony but are important to me.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

bagpipers said:


> there not really a symphony but are important to me.


That's fine! I am just not sure how this matches "Your Top 10 Second Symphonies", but I see your point and I appreciate it very highly.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Philidor said:


> That's fine! I am just not sure how this matches "Your Top 10 Second Symphonies", but I see your point and I appreciate it very highly.


I am a composer and a creative type so I am often irrational.I feel the Brandenburg concerto's have symphonic importance and me it matters.To use a sports metaphor,the Brandenburgs were my captain's choice.


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## Georgieva (7 mo ago)

Top 5: 
1.Mahler No.9 D major
2. Rachmaninov No. 2 in E minor,
3. Schubert Symphony No 9 C major
4. Beethoven No. 5 C minor
5. Prokofiev No. 2 D minor


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

bagpipers said:


> I am a composer and a creative type so I am often irrational.I feel the Brandenburg concerto's have symphonic importance and me it matters.To use a sports metaphor,the Brandenburgs were my captain's choice.


I see. - To my mind, what makes a symphony, is a story. The story can be more or less expressis verbis as with Berlioz, Liszt or Mahler (2, 3, 8), it can be a little bit hidden as sometimes with Mahler (6, 9) or it can be abstract as with Bruckner or Brahms.

Besides, a symphony shows development of the material, which I hardly recognize with the Brandenburgs, which just show the form of the italian Concerto Grosso. I cannot see different illuminations of subjects or motifs the way that this happens in a post-1790 symphony. Bach takes his main subject and is working out some modulation plan. This is how a concerto grosso is working, sequences being the engine, this is, what happens in the Brandenburgs. It could be difficult to find motivic-thematic transformation in the sense as you find it with Haydn and Beethoven or later.

To define the Brandenburgs as a precedessor to the classic and romantic symphony is similar calling the horse a precedessor to a car from my perspective. You can do this in some sense, but maybe you just don't get the essential qualities of a horse and a car.

Just my 2 cts. but I appreciate your irrationality and that you share your thoughts.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

bagpipers said:


> 1.Schubert 9 C major (The Great)
> 2.Beethoven 5 C minor
> 3.Beethoven 7 A major
> 4.Beethoven 9 D minor (Chorale)
> ...





Georgieva said:


> Top 5:
> 1.Mahler No.9 D major
> 2. Rachmaninov No. 2 in E minor,
> 3. Schubert Symphony No 9 C major
> ...


However, I agree that it could be difficult to discuss the difference between a concerto grosso and a symphony, if there are obvious difficulties in reading a thread's title ...


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

I really do not have ten!

But in order of appreciation:

Mahler
Sibelius
Brahms
Rachmaninoff
Beethoven
Borodin
Tchaikovsky
Mendelssohn
Schumann


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## Georgieva (7 mo ago)

Philidor said:


> However, I agree that it could be difficult to discuss the difference between a concerto grosso and a symphony, if there are obvious difficulties in reading a thread's title ...


difficulties in reading a thread's title? I don't believe


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Definitely
Borodin
Mahler
Sibelius
Vaughan Williams
Suk (Asrael)
Chavez (Sinfonia India)
Martinu

Maybe, pick any 3
Elgar
Nielsen
Stenhammer
Walton


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

1. Mahler - well, obviously
2. Brahms
3. Rachmaninov - surprised to see this on so few lists
4. Beethoven
5. Borodin
6. Tchaikovsky
7. Prokofiev
8. Schumann
9. Schubert
10. Sibelius

Cool to see Mendelssohn's Lobgesang get a mention. Honorable mention for me: Shostakovich. His weird Soviet experimental symphony is memorable to me, even if it is not his best.

And unfortunately I just don't know some of these well. I don't think I've ever heard Elgar's 2nd. I'll add it to my list.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Favorite Symphony no. 2 compositions listed alphabetically, (nine only):

Beethoven
Borodin
Brahms
Mahler
Rachmaninoff
Schubert
Sibelius
Tchaikovsky 
Vaughan Williams


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

Prokofiev
Atterberg*
Asia
Bernstein
Copland
Elgar
Rachmaninov
Schumann
Vaughan-Williams
Mahler

*from what I understand, Atterberg was criticized for his Second symphony, those critics saying it needed a final movement. I heartily disagree. While the movement he tacked on the end is impressive, the beginning of the symphony sounds complete to me as Atterberg originally conceived it.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Philidor said:


> However, I agree that it could be difficult to discuss the difference between a concerto grosso and a symphony, if there are obvious difficulties in reading a thread's title ...


The Bach and Handel Concerto Grosso evolved into the symphony.Basically when Haydn got fed up and demanded for more musicians and instruments and then the symphony was born.Handel and Bach were unhappy with the instrumentation there patrons allowed,maybe the symphony could have been born sooner!


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Philidor said:


> To define the Brandenburgs as a precedessor to the classic and romantic symphony is similar calling the horse a precedessor to a car from my perspective.


Maybe I'm really mistaken but I thought a horse drawn carriage did lead to the car,huh I also thought musket's led to the modern rifle too,I guess I'm really out of touch.And thank god for those nomads from the central Asian Steppe who brought horses to the middle East or we'd still be riding camels everywhere.Silly me!


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Rachmaninoff
Kalinnikov
Tchaikovsky
Brahms
Beethoven
Borodin
Taneyev
Schmidt
Wetz
Gade


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## Anooj (Dec 5, 2021)

Mahler
Rachmaninov
Elgar
Kalinnikov
Borodin
Taneyev
Vaughan Williams
Bortkiewicz
Tchaikovsky
Mendelssohn


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

bagpipers said:


> Maybe I'm really mistaken but I thought a horse drawn carriage did lead to the car,huh I also thought musket's led to the modern rifle too,I guess I'm really out of touch.


If you're reducing the horse to the possibiliy to move you from A to B, you're right.

If you're thinking that a horse is a creature and a car is not, you might understand why I see some difference between a concerto grosso and a symphony.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Get a _whiff_ of these!
[not your grandpappy's #2]

1. Isang Yun (1984)
2. Benjamin Frankel (1962)
3. Fartein Valen (1944)
4. Claude Ballif's "Le livre du Serviteur" op. 59, Deuxième Symphonie mystique [1983-87]
Claude Ballif, Le livre du serviteur - MFA (musiquefrancaise.net) 
5. Vincent d'Indy (1903)
6. Eiichi Tada (1985)
7. Erkki-Sven Tüür (1987)
8. Heinz Tiessen (1912)
9. Carl Vine (1988)
10. Takashi Yoshimatsu "At terra" (1992)


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

My top ten at the moment:

1. Elgar
2. Mahler
3. Sibelius
4. Brahms
5. Rachmaninoff
6. Borodin
7. Ives
8. Schumann
9. Kalinnikov
10. Beethoven

Honorable mentions (in no specific order) to: Suk, Vaughan Williams, Nielsen, Stenhammar, Creston, Hanson, Mendelssohn (_Reformation_ is his second, not _Lobgesang_), Bax, Dohnányi, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Guarnieri and Martinü.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

bagpipers said:


> The Bach and Handel Concerto Grosso evolved into the symphony.Basically when Haydn got fed up and demanded for more musicians and instruments and then the symphony was born.Handel and Bach were unhappy with the instrumentation there patrons allowed,maybe the symphony could have been born sooner!


No, actually not. The primary source is the Italian opera sinfonia and to a lesser extent ripieno concertos (the kind without soloists), with contributions to individual movement structure from suites, divertimenti, and sonatas. The addition of instruments isn't a part of the origin story.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

bagpipers said:


> Basically when Haydn got fed up and demanded for more musicians and instruments and then the symphony was born.


Have you listened to Franz Ignaz Beck (1734-1809)'s sturm-und-drang symphonies from 1760, 1762? (similarly btw, the 7 contrapuntally intricate Franz Xaver Richter Op.5 string quartets from 1757?) Is there any contemporary anecdotal or musical evidence all these guys got their ideas from Pappy?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Most of mine have been mentioned so I'll just add:
Lutoslawski
Gerhard
Tippett


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> Have you listened to Franz Ignaz Beck (1734-1809)'s sturm-und-drang symphonies from 1760, 1762? (similarly btw, the 7 contrapuntally intricate Franz Xaver Richter Op.5 string quartets from 1757?) Is there any contemporary anecdotal or musical evidence all these guys got their ideas from Pappy?


I only said that Haydn from frustration with the older limitations expanded the orchestra ,I never said Haydn was the only influence of his time.We know Beethoven idolized Handel and loved Mozart but said he learned little from Haydn.


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## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

In no particular order:

Elgar
Bax
Walton
Roussel
Mahler
Sibelius
Prokofiev
Suk (Asrael)
Chavez
Creston


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## JimZipCode (Feb 16, 2021)

I have always loved Rachmaninoff's second. There's a taut recording of it by the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Lorin Maazel from around 1983-ish, where the first movement is just gripping. Maazel doesn't do any of the stereotypically "Russian" elastic rhythms. Instead of easy emotion, the movement has a gathering power. 
The remaining movements feel dashed off, unfortunately. Other recordings do the other movements more justice.


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## szabomd (Dec 13, 2021)

1.Mahler
2.Sibelius
3.Brahms
4.Rachmaninov
5.Schmidt
6.Rimszkij Korszakov
7.V.Williams
8.Mendelssohn
9.Liszt
10.Khachaturian


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

1. Mahler
2. Brahms
3. Sibelius
4. Tchaikovsky
5. Borodin
6. Suk
7. Schnittke
8. Rachmaninoff
9. Stravinsky Symphony in C
10. Schumann


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Favorite 2nd Symphonies:

1. Sibelius
2. Mahler "Resurrection" 
3. Alan Hovhaness "Mysterious Mountain"
4. Lou Harrison "Elegiac"
5. Virgil Thomson "Symphony on a Hymn Tune"
6. Vaughan Williams "A London Symphony"
7. Rachmaninoff 
8. Tchaikovsky "Little Russian"
9. Brahms
10. Beethoven


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hovhaness
Vaughan Williams
Berlioz Harold
Chavez
Tchaikovsky
Hanson
Weber (love both of his symphonies, his first only just missed out from being included on the previous list)
Rachmaninov (even if just for the slow movement)

And I'll throw in two to make the ten: Bernstein and Brahms.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

'Third' time around will be the charm.
When's the Three's Company thread arriving?


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## scott.stucky48 (7 mo ago)

RVW
Piston


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Prodromides said:


> 'Third' time around will be the charm.
> When's the Three's Company thread arriving?


It's up!


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Tchaikovsky
Borodin
Sibelius
Kalinnikov
Beethoven
Brahms
Mahler (first 3 movements only)
Rimsky-Korsakov 'Antar'
Hanson
Rachmaninoff


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

YouTube Davy sez:

Repertoire: Great Symphonies By The Numbers--16 No. 2s - YouTube

"And the best picks are: Sibelius: Symphony No. 2 Weill: Symphony No. 2 Hanson: Symphony No. 2 “Romantic” Arnold: Symphony No. 2 Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 2 “A London Symphony” Bernstein: Symphony No. 2 “The Age of Anxiety” Hovhaness: Symphony No. 2 “Mysterious Mountain” Englund: Symphony No. 2 Casella: Symphony No. 2 Copland: Symphony No. 2 (Short Symphony) Roussel: Symphony No. 2 Elgar: Symphony No. 2 Schmidt (Franz): Symphony No. 2 Bax: Symphony No. 2 Ives: Symphony No. 2 Mahler: Symphony No. 2"


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

Dobrzyński - Symphony No. 2 in C minor "Characteristic", Op. 15 (1831)
Bruch - Symphony No. 2 in F minor, Op. 36 (1870)
Reinecke - Symphony No. 2 in C minor, Op. 134 (1875, rev. 1888)
Rheinberger - Symphony No. 2 in F major, Op. 87 "Florentine" (1875)
Brahms - Symphony No. 2 in D major, Op. 73 (1877)
Noskowski - Symphony No. 2 in C minor (1879)
Fuchs - Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major, Op. 45 (1887)
Sgambati - Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major (1895)
Rachmaninoff - Symphony No. 2 in E minor, Op. 27 (1908)
Peterson-Berger - Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major, "The Journey of Southerly Winds" (1910)


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Andante Largo said:


> Rheinberger - Symphony No. 2 in F major, Op. 87 "Florentine" (1875)


What a woefully neglected work this is. Maybe because it's so sunny and lighthearted? Rheinberger's 1st (a much darker but rather rambling effort) got at least three decent recordings, while the Florentine got only served a single one - and it's way too slow and ponderous. It should be played like Mendelssohn's Italian!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Lutoslawski 
Dutilleux
Vaughan Williams
Nielsen 
Mahler 
Schumann 
Honegger 
Szymanowski 
Sibelius
Martinu


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Let's see if I can do this...(in no particular order):

Mahler
Sibelius
Brahms
Martinů
Prokofiev
Vaughan Williams
Ives
Rachmaninov
Schmidt
Elgar


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## kyjo (Jan 1, 2018)

Off the top of my head, in alphabetical order:

Arnold
Atterberg
Braga Santos
Casella
Elgar
Hanson
Rachmaninoff
Sibelius
Tubin
Vaughan Williams


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## Georgieva (7 mo ago)

My choice:

Mahler
Rachmaninov
Beethoven
Tchaikovsky
Prokofiev
Rimsky-Korsakov
Sibelius
Brahms
Bruch
Bax


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Can't do ten, but can do twelve.

I rate four as very good:
Beethoven
Mahler
Sibelius
Vaughan Williams

Then another eight as good:
Borodin
Brahms
Hanson
Ives
Nielsen
Rachmaninov
Schubert
Tchaikovsky


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## buonamusica (2 mo ago)

Brahms
Schumann
Borodin


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## Shoskofiev (5 mo ago)

Sibelius
Alfvén
Barber
Mahler
Elgar
Roussel
Alwyn
Rachmaninoff
Tubin
Walton


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

*Tubin
Sibelius
Khachaturian
Mahler
Roussel
Vaughan Williams
Casella
Ben-Haim
Elgar
Glazunov*


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