# How do you hate La Traviata



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

If you like La Traviata, please don't come here! This is the place for Traviata's enemies!!!!!!!!

kindly

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

LOL...LOL...LOL (I had to enter 3 LOLs because the software kept saying my message was too short)


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't hate it. I love it. It was the first opera I ever saw in total (albeit on cable TV). I still love that version with Stratas and Domingo:






Every time I see or play it I find myself singing (badly) for days:

_Un dì, felice, eterea,
Mi balenaste innante,
E da quel dì tremante
Vissi d'ignoto amor.
Di quell'amor ch'è palpito
Dell'universo, Dell'universo intero,
Misterioso, altero,
Croce e delizia cor.
Misterioso, Misterioso altero,
Croce e delizia al cor._

I can't say any Russian opera has come even close to moving me as much... although there is a Russian singer who's done a good job himself with _La Traviata_:






In fact... a couple of them:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I don't hate it. I love it. It was the first opera I ever saw in total (albeit on cable TV). I still love that version with Stratas and Domingo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Don't be angry. This poll is a joke. I prefer Eugene Oneguin by far. I have the version you are mentionning on DVD, it is quite good. Teresa is a great Violetta indeed...But I don't like Traviata any more. It is against my religion like pasta and pizza in general.

No hard feelings

Martin


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

From the looks of the poll you have a lot of company. I loathe 'La Triviata'.

Aside: given your login, Myaskovsky2002, you may be interesed to know that I am listening to Symphony No. 4 in e minor by Myaskovsky1 right now. Beautiful.



myaskovsky2002 said:


> If you like La Traviata, please don't come here! This is the place for Traviata's enemies!!!!!!!!
> 
> kindly
> 
> Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

NightHawk said:


> From the looks of the poll you have a lot of company. I loathe 'La Triviata'.
> 
> Aside: given your login, Myaskovsky2002, you may be interesed to know that I am listening to Symphony No. 4 in e minor by Myaskovsky1 right now. Beautiful.


Great!

I think I have a good reason to hate Traviata.
When I came from Argentina to Canada in 1983, I came just with a radio-cassette player and many cassettes...my records (LP) were still in Argentina and I put every day for many hours my classical music, mainly opera. When my first son was born 6 months afterwards, he started listening to my music (he had no other choice). I also had the videotape of La Traviata with Teresa Stratas and Placido Domingo (the very same than StlukesguildOhio has posted here)...John fell in love with Traviata and it was every single day...When he was two, it was still Traviata...and crying each time he saw Violetta dying...He was three and still. Then he could recognize more than 70 opera excerpts...for a 3 years old kid, this is something...Traviata started sounding to my ears as a vile torture...Now you know the TRUTH about the relation I've developed with Traviata...Put yourself for a minute in my place....

Thank you so much for reading this,

Sincerely,

Martin, with Traviatitis


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Great!
> 
> I think I have a good reason to hate Traviata.
> When I came from Argentina to Canada in 1983, I came just with a radio-cassette player and many cassettes...my records (LP) were still in Argentina and I put every day for many hours my classical music, mainly opera. When my first son was born 6 months afterwards, he started listening to my music (he had no other choice). I also had the videotape of La Traviata with Teresa Stratas and Placido Domingo (the very same than StlukesguildOhio has posted here)...John fell in love with Traviata and it was every single day...When he was two, it was still Traviata...and crying each time he saw Violetta dying...He was three and still. Then he could recognize more than 70 opera excerpts...for a 3 years old kid, this is something...Traviata started sounding to my ears as a vile torture...Now you know the TRUTH about the relation I've developed with Traviata...Put yourself for a minute in my place....
> ...


If your son had forced you to listen to Eugen Onegin for years and always started crying during the letter scene you might now have Eugenitis instead.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> If your son had forced you to listen to Eugen Onegin for years and always started crying during the letter scene you might now have Eugenitis instead.


More than probably...(but crying because of a letter is not very "normal", crying about a death, a bit more logical....LOL).

When I saw your name here...I said to myself, here is a huge Traviata's fan! I know you are...you were speaking about this opera with enthousiasm. This site is pacific...Please...no hard feelings. I hate Traviata, *not Traviata lovers *though. LOL

Martin, smiling


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> More than probably...(*but crying because of a letter is not very "normal"*, crying about a death, a bit more logical....LOL).
> 
> Martin, smiling


I don't know...It's a moving scene if it's sung well.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

You don't have an option for Eeh. I don't exactly hate it but it is no where near the top of my Verdi favorites list. so I finally decided on option 3. To each his own.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> I don't know...It's a moving scene if it's sung well.


Moving, yes...But it is just a young girl who has a crash. But *death* is irreversible.

In Russian is in verse...The Pushkin book is awesome, I wish I could read it in Russian (I read it in Spanish many years ago, twice), I have already bought the book in original language, I can understand a bit but not everything yet...It is one of my cherished projects !

See you!

Martin


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

i can listen thru the gambling scene, then it's boooooooooooring.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

LOL**2 - LOL again (must be at least 10 characters

Martin


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

Kleiber liked conducting it and with his fussy tastes it must be good.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I don't love nor hate. Haven't heard it in my life. Anyway, I hate opera. Any opera. But love Marc Olivier Dupin's Fantasie sur des airs de La Traviata for violin and orchestra. Love the music, hate the singing.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Odnoposoff said:


> I don't love nor hate. Haven't heard it in my life. Anyway, I hate opera. Any opera. But love Marc Olivier Dupin's Fantasie sur des airs de La Traviata for violin and orchestra. Love the music, hate the singing.


Should I say that usually I hate people wo hates opera? I'll make an exception for you. LOL

Martin, an opera lover, a passionate lover


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Odnoposoff said:


> I don't love nor hate. Haven't heard it in my life. Anyway, I hate opera. Any opera. But love Marc Olivier Dupin's Fantasie sur des airs de La Traviata for violin and orchestra. Love the music, hate the singing.


Should I say that usually I hate people who hates opera? I'll make an exception for you. LOL

Martin, an opera lover, a passionate opera lover

:tiphat:


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## prettyhippo (Apr 19, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I don't hate it. I love it. It was the first opera I ever saw in total (albeit on cable TV). I still love that version with Stratas and Domingo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here! The film adaptation was the first one I saw and I fell in love!! Plus, I personally think Placido Domingo makes one hell of an Alfredo. ;D


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

prettyhippo said:


> Same here! The film adaptation was the first one I saw and I fell in love!! Plus, I personally think Placido Domingo makes one hell of an Alfredo. ;D


This version is good indeed....and Teresa makes a great Violetta too.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

What?!?!?!?!?!? Hate la traviata?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Impossible!!!!!! How could anyone hate such a magnificent work?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> What?!?!?!?!?!? Hate la traviata?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Impossible!!!!!! How could anyone hate such a magnificent work?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


Magnificient? Not for me.

I have my tastes
you have your tastes
he has his tastes
she has her tastes
it has its tastes (???)
we have our tastes
you have your tastes
they have their tastes

Tastes cannot be disputed. 
I hate Traviata. I have explained the reasons above too...

You took the name composer of avant garde...how can a composer of avantgard defend a so tear-jerker opera...

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I COMPOSE avant-garde music, but I love classical music (and jazz) in general.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> ...how can a composer of avantgard defend a so tear-jerker opera...
> 
> Martin


I don't see why not. It's not because you love one thing that you can't love something completely different as well.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

La Traviata is one of my favourite operas,so I don't have problems with it - musically, that is.

The plot is fairly close to the Dumas novel, so you can't fault Verdi and his librettist as they worked with what they had.

My only issue is with _consumption _in opera - why is it so many sopranos end up dying of it, yet can still sing so beautifully seconds before their passing... After all, tuberculosis is a breathing ailment... I wish we'd skip pneumonia and consumption as "causes of death" and simply went for something like - I don't know - congestive heart failure or flesh eating disease of something...


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Because in those days it really was such a killer, often of young women. And you can still look pale and interesting when you are dying of it, unlike flesh-eating diseases which would require some inventive special effects on stage.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Because in those days it really was such a killer, often of young women. And you can still look pale and interesting when you are dying of it, unlike flesh-eating diseases which would require some inventive special effects on stage.


Violetta made cry my three years son many many times...I hate her...Now...LOL

Martin


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Violetta made cry my three years son many many times...I hate her...Now...LOL
> 
> Martin


Either you three year-old is very sensitive and mature, or it has to do with the music and singing that scared him.

Kind of like hearing "Funeral March for a Marionette" at the beginning of _Alfred Hitchcock Presents _making me hide under the bed when I was about that age...


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## CameraEye (Nov 18, 2011)

> Violetta made cry my three years son many many times...I hate her...Now...LOL
> 
> Martin


I don´t understand why you insisted if it made your son cry!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

CameraEye said:


> I don´t understand why you insisted if it made your son cry!


He liked her death very deeply...I liked it too but for a different reason...getting rid of her! LOL

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

itywltmt said:


> Either you three year-old is very sensitive and mature, or it has to do with the music and singing that scared him.
> 
> Kind of like hearing "Funeral March for a Marionette" at the beginning of _Alfred Hitchcock Presents _making me hide under the bed when I was about that age...


Look what he has become!

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=310549214599
http://johnnathanielproducer.com/









Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I betrayed myself yesterday while playing rummy with my wife...I started humming something....and it was "questa o quella" from Rigoletto...I guess I don't hate Verdi so much. LOL

Martin


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I like Traviata a lot, but could live without the gypsy dance scenes. They seem to have no bearing on the opera but to have an entertainment interlude whilst we wait for Alfredo to burst onto the scene in anger.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I liked at the poll and thought, but I don't hate Traviata!

Fritz, that's great news that you like Traviata 'a lot'. I remember when you weren't that keen.

I agree that the Gypsy dances aren't that interesting when you know what is about to happen after.

N.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Of the ten Verdi operas I know I would place _La traviata_ in the top half - I find it of particular interest because of its relatively modern setting.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Conte said:


> I liked at the poll and thought, but I don't hate Traviata!
> 
> Fritz, that's great news that you like Traviata 'a lot'. I remember when you weren't that keen.
> 
> ...


I was won over by the fact that this fallen woman turned a new leaf and became the most honorable and morally upright character of all. I think Ludwig van B would have been pleased at that part.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I'm mostly just indifferent. I want to bitchslap the tenor. Violetta needs a hug. Di provenza is extremely overrated and I wouldn't even put it in the top 10 of Verdi baritone arias.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

So for the two Gheorghiu Traviatas on DVD I much prefer the one from 1994 as she is very young. Her age shows too much in the 2007 production.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Every time I see this thread come up I want to change the title to "How can you hate La Traviata?"

Is it just me?

N.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

One puzzling thing with La Traviata is that since Violetta wanted Alfredo to leave the party because she feared he would confront Douphol and possibly killed in a duel, why when Alfredo asked her if it was Douphol who made her commit to leave him, did she say yes? That is like pouring gasoline on a fire. I think she said yes because she did not want to expose that his father was the one, and since an immediate answer was required she just quickly answered "yes" before thinking about the consequences.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Fritz Kobus said:


> One puzzling thing with La Traviata is that since Violetta wanted Alfredo to leave the party because she feared he would confront Douphol and possibly killed in a duel, why when Alfredo asked her if it was Douphol who made her commit to leave him, did she say yes? That is like pouring gasoline on a fire. I think she said yes because she did not want to expose that his father was the one, and since an immediate answer was required she just quickly answered "yes" before thinking about the consequences.


That's been my reading of that moment.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^I agree. It was to protect Alfredo's relationship with his father.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> That's been my reading of that moment.
> 
> N.


If you listen to Callas sing it, there is no doubt why she says yes. Think of the previous scene. Germont suggests she tell Alfredo she doesn't love him anymore. "He wouldn't believe me," she says, "Then leave him," he offers. "He'd just follow me." " Well then," says Germont, but she interrupts him before he can make another suggestion. Already a plan is forming in her mind. With no care for herself, she goes back to the Baron, but she doesn't quite bargain for Alfredo's persistance.

When Callas utters the words, "Ebben, l'amo", it's as if they are wrenched from her very soul, as a last resort, the only way she can convince Alfredo to leave her. Go back a few lines. She has been backed into a corner by Alfredo when she says she took a sacred oath to leave him. "Who would ask that of you?" he asks. "Someone who had full right, " she says, but of course she cannot tell him who. "Was it Duphol?" When Callas sings the single word, _Si_, in utter dejection, you know she is beaten, and so the following _Ebben, l'amo_ makes complete sense.

It is moments such as these that make Callas's Violetta the greatest ever recorded.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If you listen to Callas sing it, there is no doubt why she says yes. Think of the previous scene. Germont suggests she tell Alfredo she doesn't love him anymore. "He wouldn't believe me," she says, "Then leave him," he offers. "He'd just follow me." " Well then," says Germont, but she interrupts him before he can make another suggestion. Already a plan is forming in her mind. With no care for herself, she goes back to the Baron, but she doesn't quite bargain for Alfredo's persistance.
> 
> When Callas utters the words, "Ebben, l'amo", it's as if they are wrenched from her very soul, as a last resort, the only way she can convince Alfredo to leave her. Go back a few lines. She has been backed into a corner by Alfredo when she says she took a sacred oath to leave him. "Who would ask that of you?" he asks. "Someone who had full right, " she says, but of course she cannot tell him who. "Was it Duphol?" When Callas sings the single word, _Si_, in utter dejection, you know she is beaten, and so the following _Ebben, l'amo_ makes complete sense.
> 
> It is moments such as these that make Callas's Violetta the greatest ever recorded.


True! And it's also all there in Verdi's music.

(I also like this moment in the Zeferelli film of the opera, she and Domingo leave no doubt as to what is happening in that scene.)

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> True! And it's also all there in Verdi's music.
> 
> N.


It is indeed, but how often do we get a singer who realises his intentions so brilliantly?


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