# Recommend me good orchestral works with piano that aren't piano concertos



## regressivetransphobe

Think Scriabin's Prometheus. Maybe this is a weird topic. I feel like some are hiding from me, and we can't have that.


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## Delicious Manager

I few that come to mind:

Bartók - Music for Strings, Percussion and Celeste
Bloch - Concerto Grosso
Gerald Finzi - Eclogue
Charles Ives - Three Places in New England (particularly 2nd movement)
Charles Ives - Symphony No 4 (2nd movement)
Charles Ives - Set for Theater Orchestra
Frank Martin - Petite symphonie concertante
Martinu - Concerto for Double String Orchestra, Piano and Timpani (maybe this doesn't count, but it's WONDERFUL)
Messiaen - Des canyons aux étoiles
Messiaen - Oiseaux éxotiques
Messiaen - Turangalîla-Symphonie
Pärt - Tabula rasa
Schnittke - Concerti Grossi Nos 1, 5 & 6
Shostakovich - _Assault on Beautiful Gorky_ (from the film score _Unforgettable Year 1919_)
Stravinsky - Petrushka

I will add more if I think of them.


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## Sid James

*Saint-Saens *- _Organ Symphony_, & that _Wedding Cake_ piece, _Carnival of the Animals_ (two pianos very prominent)
*Martinu* - All of his symphonies
*Gershwin *- _Rhapsody in Blue_ obviously but also _An American in Paris_ (I think?)
*Franck *- _Variations Symphoniques_
*Antheil *- _Ballet Mecanique_ (but it has several pianos, plus other things)
*Beethoven* - _Choral Fantasy_ (prominent piano part)
*Liszt* - _Totentanz, Hungarian Fantasy, Malediction_
*Shostakovich* - _Symphony #5_ (piano + celesta)
*Turina* - _Rhapsodia Sinfonica_
*Albeniz *-_ Rhapsodia Espanola_ (arr. Halffter)
*De Falla *- _Nights in the Gardens of Spain_
*Villa-Lobos* - _Momoprecoce_
*Mozart *- A lot of movements and fragments for piano & orch., formerly parts of concertos or substitutes
*d'Indy* -_ Symphony on A French Mountain Air
_
*Rachmaninov* - _Paganini Rhapsody_
*Lutoslawski* -_ Paganini Variations_
*Szymanowski *- _Symphony #4 "Sinfonia Concertante"_

I'll see what else I can dig up later...


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## Fsharpmajor

Villa-Lobos, _Bachianas Brasileiras_ No. 3 and _Choros_ 8 and 11.


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## Couchie

Several of Prokofiev's symphonies: 2, 4 (revised version), 5, 6, and 7.


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## An Die Freude

Orff's Carmina Burana.


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## Meaghan

Fun: Stravinsky's Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra. It was written to be a flashy, crowd-pleasing showpiece, but it has some really cool stuff going on.


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## starthrower

Delicious Manager said:


> I few that come to mind:
> 
> Charles Ives - Symphony No 4 (2nd movement)


I just happened to be listening to this one this morning. A fantastic piece!
Piano is featured in 1st and 4th movement as well, with some organ in
the 3rd.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Havergal Brian's third symphony has two concertante pianos.


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## Xytech

Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet has some nice piano/celeste stuff
Stravinsky Firebird also has some interesting piano writing. 
More minor roles than what you are probably looking for though


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## Lukecash12

This one should invite a palm to the forehead for everyone in the thread so far: Monsieur Chopin's Grand Polonaise Brillante! Those who would say that Chopin knew only how to write for the piano, should take notice of his orchestral and chamber works that are of great quality, especially the Grand Polonaise.


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## LordBlackudder




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## Jeremy Marchant

Hans Werner Henze's _Tristan _is a substantial "six-movement orchestral work... scored for piano, tape and full orchestra, it takes the form of a homage to Richard Wagner's opera _Tristan und Isolde_, with the piano providing preludes to a series of widely divergent material, both live and on tape, including direct quotations from Brahms's First Symphony and Chopin's _Funeral March_..." (Wikipedia)


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## clavichorder

Stravinsky symphony in three movements(rhythmic)
Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances(I know its in there somewhere) 

Alexander Tcherepnin's 3rd symphony(very colorful part in here, actually pretty significant, an obscure work worth checking out, very much like Stravinsky or Prokofiev in spots, but with a wierd style involving certain repetitions and a very odd tonal scale called the Tcherepnin scale)

P.S., this is just the kind of wierd topic I like.


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## Klavierspieler

Lukecash12 said:


> This one should invite a palm to the forehead for everyone in the thread so far: Monsieur Chopin's Grand Polonaise Brillante! Those who would say that Chopin knew only how to write for the piano, should take notice of his orchestral and chamber works that are of great quality, especially the Grand Polonaise.


If this is a candidate then I would like to propose Schumann's two Konzertstücke for Piano and Orchestra, Opp. 92 and 134.


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## Jeremy Marchant

More Olivier Messiaen:
_Sept haïkaï
Réveil des oiseaux
Couleurs de la cité céleste
Trois petites liturgies de la présence divine _ (if you'll accept a chorus, too)

Toru Takemitsu: _riverrun _(though, like Helmut Lachenmann's _Ausklang _and Iannis Xenakis's _Xeqrops_, this raises the question, is it a piano concerto even though it's not called a concerto?)


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## Lukecash12

Klavierspieler said:


> If this is a candidate then I would like to propose Schumann's two Konzertstücke for Piano and Orchestra, Opp. 92 and 134.


Schumann? Who's Schumann? I only listen to Chopin all day long, and ignore the elitists that listen to more than 4-5 composers.


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## Klavierspieler

Lukecash12 said:


> Schumann? Who's Schumann? I only listen to Chopin all day long, and ignore the elitists that listen to more than 4-5 composers.


Your ideology is correct, but your taste is abominable...


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## Sid James

Dunno how far we want to stretch this, but *Walton* did a _Sinfonia Concertante for piano and orchestra _(1928), and* Bax *did both a _Concertino _and _Concertante_ for piano & orch. Which garners the question - why the hell not did they just name the bloody things concertos? Can't we call a spade a spade? It seems not...

(btw - I haven't heard any of these 3 pieces, or at least not within recent memory, so that firmly makes me a plebian not an elitist, Lukecash!!! The only piano concerto I have listened to is the FIRST one...by the white bearded bisexual Russian dude, of course...)...


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## Olias

Shostakovich - Symphony 1

A brilliant work that has been a huge success ever since it was first premiered. One of the very few happy moments in his life.


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## Llyranor

It's a concerto, but not a piano concerto. Beethoven's Triple Concerto for Violin, Piano, and Cello. My 2nd favorite Beethoven composition after his Violin Concerto!


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## clavichorder

Klavierspieler said:


> Your ideology is correct, but your taste is abominable...


I swear I've seen you say this exact same thing before.


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## Klavierspieler

clavichorder said:


> I swear I've seen you say this exact same thing before.


You certainly have not.


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## BalloinMaschera

1) "Assault On Beautiful Gorky"- Shostakovich- Written for a patriotic film, called _The Unforgettable Year 1919 _, it's a stylistic flashback to the romanticism of Tchaikovsky and Miaskovsky.

2) Otto Nicolai- Fantasy for Piano & Orchestra on themes from the opera Norma


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## Lunasong

Sid James said:


> *d'Indy* -_ Symphony on A French Mountain Air
> _


I recently heard this on the radio and just acquired on CD (London/Dutoit/Orchestre Symphonique de Montréal) so I could listen again at leisure. I like the piano and also the assorted short solos by other instruments. Not a selection with which I was previously familiar and glad for the introduction to a new piece and composer for me.


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## NightHawk

Stravinsky - Symphony of Psalms


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## poconoron

By Mozart:

a piano quintet K452
2 piano quartets K478, K493
Many,many piano sonatas, K#s follow:
279
280
281
282
283
284
309
310
311
330
331
332
333
358
381
448
457
521
533
545
570
576


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## Lunasong

^^do you have the previously unknown orchestrations for these?


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## pollux

Stravinsky's Petrushka: some magic piano moments.
Stravinsky's Les Noces: you've got 4 pianos there. And a chorus, too!


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## An Die Freude

Just found this out: Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony.


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## myaskovsky2002

Couchie said:


> Several of Prokofiev's symphonies: 2, 4 (revised version), 5, 6, and 7.


Where is the piano there?

Martin, puzzled


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## myaskovsky2002

Sonata for 2 pianos and percussion, by Bela Bartok

Martin, a Bartok lover


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## myaskovsky2002

NightHawk said:


> Stravinsky - Symphony of Psalms


Piano??

Martin


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## violadude

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Piano??
> 
> Martin


Indeed. ...........


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## presto

Finzi, Eclogue for piano and strings op.10
This is an utterly beautiful work.


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## Oskaar

Lazarof: Tableux for piano and orchestra is very nice.

Stravinsky: Capriccio for piano and orchestra


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## teccomin

Prokofiev
Prokofiev
Prokofiev
Almost all his symphonies were written with a prominent piano part


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## myaskovsky2002

violadude said:


> Indeed. ...........


Maybe...I listened to it 15-18 years ago for the last time...Thank you for your clarification.

Martin


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## PetrB

Stravinsky ~ Symphony in three movements.

Martinu, a lot of piano parts in many works, often near obbligato status; "Toccata e due Canzone." / Symphonia La Jolla, are but a few.









John Adams ~ Grand pianola music (two grands, wind orchestra, percussion, three mic'd sopranos) / Common tones in simple time (again two pianos in the orchestra)

Barber ~ Violin Concerto (yep!)

Aaron Copland ~ the original chamber version of Appalachian Spring, 13 instruments, including piano. Piano also in the pit orchestra of _The Tender Land_ / Benjamin Britten, piano in pit orchestra of _Turn of the Screw_.

Roy Harris ~ Symphony no. 11 - piano has prominent role in first movement.





Ravel ~ L'enfant et les sortilèges

Poulenc ~ Aubade, "Concerto Choreographique) for piano and 18 instruments... a fantastic opening solo toccata, the remaining movements the piano is obbligato. A great work 









Debussy ~ Fantaisie pour pianoforte et orchestre

Saint-Saens, Carnival des Animaux, in its original chamber orchestration for:
two pianos, two violins, viola, cello, double bass, flute (and piccolo), clarinet (C and B♭), glass harmonica, and xylophone.





Steve Reich ~ Music for Eighteen musicians / Daniel Variations.

Olivier Messiaen ~ Trois petites liturgies de la présence divine




Trois petites liturgies de la présence divine





Graham Fitkin ~ Circuit, for two pianos and orchestra.


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## TrevBus

Bernstein's Symphony #2 'The Age of Anxiety'. Some of the best piano music I've heard.


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## brianvds

Liszt's "Totentanz"... 

Hey, and what about all those magnificent pieces by Yanni? {Runs and hides  }


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## aleazk

György Ligeti - Kammerkonzert, Melodien.

Pierre Boulez - Derive I, Sur Incises.

Elliott Carter - Flute Concerto.

Toru Takemitsu - Rain Speel.


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## Op.123

Chopin's grand fantasy op.13


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## pluhagr

Stravinsky has so many good pieces which include the piano. Many have been mentioned on here. I will list a few of them as well. Firebird, Petrouschka, Les Noces, Agon, Symphony in 3 Movements, Variations, Capriccio, Movements for Piano and Orchestra, Symphony of Psalms, Threni, Requiem Canticles, Ebony Concerto.

I believe that is a pretty good list.


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## moody

I believe that the OP probably meant pieces of music that sounded like piano concertos ,or at least extended compositions for piano and orchestra.
If so there have been some strange replies.
Anyway here are some which should fit the category.

Britten. Diversions on a Theme,Op.21 for Piano Left Hand and Orchestra.
Alan Bush. Variations,Nocturne and Finale On an Old English Sea-Song for piano and orchestra.
Chopin. Variations On "La Ci Darem la Mano" from Mozart's "Don Giovanni".
Chopin. Grand Fantasy on Polish Airs,Op.13 (Already mentioned).
Chopin. Concert Rondo "Krakowiak"Op.14.
Tchaikovsky. Concert Fantasia in G Major,Op.56.
Mendelssohn. Capriccio Brillant in B Minor,Op.22.
Liapunov. Rhapsody On Ukranian Themes Op.28.
Liszt. Hungarian Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra, (Orchestration of Hungarian Rhapsody,No.4).
Weber. Konzertstueck For Piano and Orchestra,Op.79. 
Czerny. Variations On a Theme of Haydn,Op.73. (Deutschland Uber Alles).
R.Strauss. Burleske for Piano and Orchestra.
Charles Loeffler. A Pagan Poem.
Mozart. Rondos in D major,K.382 and in A Major,K.386.


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## drpraetorus

Shostakovich Symphony #1


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## PetrB

violadude said:


> Indeed. ...........


Stravinsky, Symphony of Psalms, piano, "Indeed."

Indeed, TWICE, two pianos are part of that score.


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## wzg

Prokofiev's Symphony No. 5.


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## PetrB

Not quite a concerto:

Honegger ~ _Concertino_ for piano and orchestra





Jean Françaix ~ _Concertino_, piano and orchestra





Leoš Janáček ~ _Concertino_ for Piano left hand; 2 Violins, Viola, Clarinet, French Horn and Bassoon





Joseph Fennimore ~ _Concerto Piccolo_ for piano and chamber orchestra





Alfredo Casella: 
_A notte alta_ per pianoforte e orchestra 




Partita per pianoforte e piccola orchestra, Op.42





Luigi Dallapiccola - _Piccolo concerto per Muriel Couvreux_





Darius Milhaud ~ _Cinq études_ pour piano et orchestre op.63





Charles Koechlin ~ _Ballade_, for piano and orchestra









Gian Francesco Malipiero ~ _Dialogo VII_ per due pianoforti e orchestra 









Ernst Bloch ~ Concerto Grosso No. 1 for strings with piano obbligato

















Germaine Taillefaire ~ _Hommage à Rameau, partita for two pianos and percussion_

Hindemith:
Paul Hindemith: Kammermusik n.2 op.36 n.1; piano obbligato and twelve instruments




Die 4 Temperamente (Ballet, four movements, strings and piano)





John Adams ~ _Eros Piano_ (piano and chamber orchestra)

Berio's _Sinfonia_ features amplified piano

ADD:
Arnold Bax ~ _Concertino_ for piano and orchestra


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## Orfeo

*Niels Wilhelm Gade:* 
-Symphony no. 5.
*Sir Arnold Bax:* 
-Symphonic Variations & Winter Legends.
*Nikolay Peiko:* 
-Concerto-Symphony (1974).
*Boris Tchaikovsky:*
-Symphony with Harp for Large Orchestra (1993).


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## omega

*Debussy*, _Fantaisie pour piano et orchestre_









_Printemps_


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## QuietGuy

Bernstein: Symphony #2 ("Age of Anxiety")
Gershwin: Second Rhapsody


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## spradlig

Let's see, assuming you don't consider your self an elitist, you listen to fewer than 4 or 5 composers.

Chopin is one of them, and Schumann is not one of them.

I think Mr. Spock would describe this as "illogical". :devil:



Lukecash12 said:


> Schumann? Who's Schumann? I only listen to Chopin all day long, and ignore the elitists that listen to more than 4-5 composers.


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## PetrB

omega said:


> *Debussy*, _Fantaisie pour piano et orchestre_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Printemps_


The _Printemps_ is a four-hand piano part


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## spradlig

Oops, I did it again (said a hundredth-tier song composer). Accidental dupe post. Please ignore. I'll be extra careful next time.


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## Headphone Hermit

spradlig said:


> Let's see, assuming you don't consider your self an elitist, you listen to fewer than 4 or 5 composers.
> 
> Chopin is one of them, and Schumann is not one of them.
> 
> I think Mr. Spock would describe this as "illogical". :devil:


Its over THREE years since he made that post - give him the benefit of the doubt - perhaps he has 'moved on' since then?


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## hpowders

Mozart Rondos for piano and orchestra in A and D Major.


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## Bruce

Lukecash12 said:


> This one should invite a palm to the forehead for everyone in the thread so far: Monsieur Chopin's Grand Polonaise Brillante! Those who would say that Chopin knew only how to write for the piano, should take notice of his orchestral and chamber works that are of great quality, especially the Grand Polonaise.


As long as Chopin has been mentioned, I'd add his Krakowiak, for Piano and Orchestra.


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## Bruce

I'm now listening to Irving Fine's Toccata concertante, and detected a piano in a few bars near the beginning.


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## Bruce

Just heard Mosolov's Elegie for Cello and Orchestra, which has a piano in it as well for a few bars.


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## hpowders

The Pines of Rome, Respighi.


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## Avolon

Robert Schumann－Piano Concerto in a Minor Op.54


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## Radames

I'm sure there was another thread about this somewhere. I remember plugging one of my favorite pieces, the Rhapsody on Ukrainian Themes by Sergei Lyapunov before. 

Others I can think of:
Fantasy on Hungarian Folk Songs by Liszt.
Rhapsody in F-sharp minor for Piano and Orchestra by E. J. Moeran 
Fantaisie Polonaise by Paderewski 
Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini by Rachmaninoff 

A few by Saint-Saëns :
Wedding Cake
Allegro appassionato, Op. 70, for piano and orchestra
Rhapsodie d'Auvergne
Africa Fantaisie

And the wonderful Concert Fantasy by Tchaikovsky. He also wrote an Andante and Finale in B-flat.


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## hpowders

I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Franck Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra. The Artur Rubinstein performance is highly recommended.


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## Swiss Cheese

hpowders said:


> I don't know if anyone has mentioned the Franck Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra. The Artur Rubinstein performance is highly recommended.


Yes, it seems to have been mentioned earlier, but it's still a great call !

Along the same lines, the OP might enjoy Franck's, "Les Djinns" (Symhonic poem for Piano and Orchestra"


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## hpowders

Has Variations on a Nursery Tune for Piano and Orchestra by Dohnányi been mentioned yet. If not, here it is.


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## AdmiralSilver

Konzertstuck in F minor by Carl Maria von Weber.
Nights in the Gardens of Spain by Manuel de Falla.
Burlesque in D minor by R.Strauss.
Scherzo (Burlesque) BB.35 by Bartok.
Rhapsody for Piano and Orchestra BB.36b by Bartok.
Polish Fantasy by Paderewsky (A favorite work).
Rondo Brilliant in Eb by Mendelssohn.


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## Guest

I must say I am finding Lutoslawski's Paganini variations more riveting than Rachmaninoff's.

Either way, although a lot of these are just concerti not named as such...

...Nono's "Como Una Ola De Fuerza Y Luz" for soprano, piano, orchestra and tape...is a work that should not be missed, and, in my opinion, one of the composer's best.


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## Bruce

I've just been listening to Honegger's Third Symphony, which has a rather important part for piano.

And Hans Huber's 4th Symphony in A, written in 1918. The piano is a rather substantial part of this symphony, though, begin subtitled "in Form eines Concerto grosso für zwei Striechorchester, Klavier und Orgel". Not a bad symphony, by any means.


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## Bruce

Creston's Chant of 1942 also has a prominent role for the piano.


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## Albert7

Here is an obscure one... Elliott Carter's Interventions for piano and orchestra...

And I will include the clips for it:


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## Bruce

A couple others I ran across recently:

Martinu - Three Inventions
Ibert - Divertissement


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