# Waltz in D progress thread



## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

Waltzes and other dances in general I have kind of been avoiding for the first 10 years that I composed. But I figured that if I am going to start composing dance music, waltzes would be great to start off with. I decided on a tempo of 90 BPM, so like Andante Moderato in the Italian terminology, to make it not so difficult for people to play once it is finished. I also decided on a key of D major because I compose a lot of my pieces in flat keys so I figured I should balance it out with some sharp keys.

I asked on a message board about how to go about writing a waltz and the first response I got was that I should focus on the bass line at first and then the melody will just materialize out of that bass line. So that is what I have been doing. I have my first 2 phrase structure down. It is a period structure.

Here is a picture of the structure of it:









The first phrase is highlighted in red. The second phrase is highlighted in blue. The ending authentic cadence is highlighted in green.

And in case you are colorblind or it is hard to see the notes, here it is without the colors:









What do you think of my waltz so far? Do I end my period too weakly by ending it on the tonic chord in first inversion instead of root position? I wasn't wanting to end it too strongly because there is still more to come but I still wanted some sense of finality which is why I went with an IAC. That and it is easier for a pianist than leaping to a root position tonic chord.


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## pkoi (Jun 10, 2017)

You could write your phrases 8+8 and divide each phrase into 4 measure segments. Very rarely do waltzes or any other triple meter dances use any other kind of phrasing, especially divisions of 11 measures as is in your piece. This is because a dance usually has some sort of regular choreography in them


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

That's not how to go about composing a waltz! Don't start with a bass line. Don't start with a harmonic progression. Don't start with undefined phrase units. These are all secondary elements. You need to start with a melody that makes sense and then figure out the harmony, bass line, and phrasing that support, enhance and define that melody. Doing it any other way is just bizarre. What you are doing now would be like starting a novel by deciding how many chapters you'll have and how long they will be without knowing what and who the story is about.

Here's how you start: Sit somewhere quiet and sing or play a melody in your head — making sure it is in 3/4 time, obviously. When you have a good idea of at least a phrase length, write it down. Then write further phrases that logically continue or respond to the first phrase. At any time during this process you can be considering what harmonies will be needed or what bass line will help to bring the structure into focus. The important thing is to begin with melody and forget about all of this pointless dithering and verbiage that always fills your posts.


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

I have tried this melodic way of thinking once before with a minuet. It didn't turn out well. And since the basic melody of a waltz is scales and arpeggios and long notes, it doesn't hurt to start with the bass line and then write a basic melody to fit with the bass line. Then after I have both the bass line and the basic melody, I can embellish this basic melody in whatever ways I see fit(non-chord tones, trills, cadenzas, etc.) to go from a basic melody anybody could play to a not so boring and not so easy to play melody but still derived from the original basic melody.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

caters said:


> I have tried this melodic way of thinking once before with a minuet. It didn't turn out well. And since the basic melody of a waltz is scales and arpeggios and long notes, it doesn't hurt to start with the bass line and then write a basic melody to fit with the bass line. Then after I have both the bass line and the basic melody, I can embellish this basic melody in whatever ways I see fit(non-chord tones, trills, cadenzas, etc.) to go from a basic melody anybody could play to a not so boring and not so easy to play melody but still derived from the original basic melody.


You tried it once and it didn't work out? Did it not occur to you that practice might be necessary to learn how to write melodies? What you are proposing is completely wrong and backwards. If you are satisfied with writing "a not so boring and not so easy to play melody," then you are setting the bar way too low. You should be trying to write good melody. Otherwise no one will care about what you have written. Do you think anyone looks for music that is "not so boring?"


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

So after 3 days, this is my basic melody for the first section of the waltz:









I reached a point where I needed to write a melody to figure out what to do next in the bass line. So i looked up how to write a waltz melody and the 1 thing I came up with in the search was to start with quarter notes that are all chord tones and then embellish it with non-chord tones. So I am basically starting with an arpeggio framework and then figuring out how to embellish it. Arpeggios do take up a significant portion of any waltz as do scales and long notes.

There are however 4 spots which I am a bit concerned about.

Here they are:









Those red boxes are places where the melody gets so close to the bass line that it sounds like an octave chord. These places are what I'm concerned about. I'm wondering if I should have the melody go up in those places instead so that it sounds less like an octave chord and more like a melody. And of course, this is only the arpeggio framework for my eventual melody. I don't plan on changing the bass line in this section, just the melody as I get better and better drafts of the waltz.

Since the melody ends on F# in this section, I am thinking of having the next section be based in B minor, the relative minor of D major. I know I could go to 2 other diatonic keys via this F#. Those would be G major and F# minor. Mediant is odd for a B section. Subdominant, not so much. But I already have G major harmony in the A section(albeit only 4 measures of it) and the B section is more often in the dominant than the subdominant. Second most common B section key I think is the relative minor.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

Nothing here to waltz to . Are you a pedantic mentalist in need of divine syncopation ? Beloved is the waltzing fermata ... a skip perchance . I have been to lovely country waltzing dances and am not fooling the feeling of human and touch and musical little surprises . Oh , never mind .


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Your melody is monophonic and consists primarily of chord tones . That's not good. It needs to be totally independent rhythmically from the quarter note accompaniment. Think combinations of longer and shorter note values than quarters. And use a decent amount (but less than 50%) non-chord tones.


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

Vasks said:


> Your melody is monophonic and consists primarily of chord tones . That's not good. It needs to be totally independent rhythmically from the quarter note accompaniment. Think combinations of longer and shorter note values than quarters. And use a decent amount (but less than 50%) non-chord tones.


Well, like I said, this is an arpeggio framework for the melody. And this will make it easier to decide on which non-chord tones to use(whether to use a passing tone or a neighbor tone or an appogiatura or other types of non-chord tones) having this arpeggio framework rather than just improvising a melody out of nothing(which is what I did when I tried to write a minuet and I failed).


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Here is one possible result following Vasks suggestions. I changed the last couple bars of the progression:


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## caters (Aug 2, 2018)

Well here is the melody that I ended up with out of that arpeggio framework:









As you can see, I clearly made that arpeggio framework into a true melody. And I only have a few quarters in there and a few half notes to balance out all the eighth notes and sixteenth notes. I kept the ending cadence measures the same while embellishing the rest. And as you can see, most of my leaps are into a consonance. Very few appogiaturas in this period structure.

This ending on F# in my mind means that this is leading towards a modulation. There are 4 keys I can see modulating to from this F#. Those are:


F# minor(Mediant)
G major(Subdominant)
B minor(Submediant)
A major(Dominant)

All except the last one on that list are direct modulations via that pivot note. The A major modulation is actually really 2 modulations in a row. G major is very typical to modulate to via an F# note. F# minor seems very odd to modulate to. B minor isn't so odd as a target for modulation but the way I would be modulating to it(pivot note modulation) seems odd. A major is very typical to modulate to from D major but it is also typically used to modulate back to D major.

Which of these keys do you think I should modulate to in the next section of my waltz?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I have marked up the first twelve measures of what you posted. The circled notes indicate improperly prepared or resolved dissonances. You need to study theory with a teacher because to anyone with basic training these errors should be obvious:


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