# SS 26.04.14 - Prokofiev #6



## realdealblues

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Sergei Prokofiev (1891 - 1953)*

Symphony #6 in E-Flat Minor, Op. 111

1. Allegro moderato
2. Largo
3. Vivace

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues

This is not a work I'm overly familiar with. I think I've heard it 3 or 4 times in my life and it's been a little while since I last heard it so it should be fun revisiting it.

I will go with Neeme Jarvi/Scottish National Orchestra

View attachment 40399


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## joen_cph

This is a really good symphony and Järvi´s is the best version I´ve heard. Great sonics too. I got Weller and Rozhdestvensky, but prefer that one.


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## GioCar

I will go with Gergiev and the London SO


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## KenOC

Prokofiev's finest symphony, even if the authorities didn't think so. I'll go Rozh today.


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## maestro267

Going for Walter Weller's recording.

Starting to get into Prokofiev's symphonies now, so tomorrow will be a nice opportunity to grow in appreciation of this work.


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## Jeff W

My choice for the weekend will be Dmitrij Kitajenko with the Gürzenich-Orchester Köln.


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## chalkpie

GioCar said:


> I will go with Gergiev and the London SO


Can you give me your opinion overall on this set? It is ordered and en route to my house. Thanks.


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## Alypius

chalkpie said:


> Can you give me your opinion overall on this set? It is ordered and en route to my house. Thanks.


In terms of complete sets, I find it excellent (everyone has favorites for this or that individual symphony, especially #5). A couple of reviews:



> "It should come as no surprise that Gergiev is in his element in Prokofiev's symphonies. Whatever his failings in other repertory, he's always had a knack for visceral excitement in Russian music, sometimes at the expense of lyric or lighter moments. And so it is here. Gergiev is a bit heavy-handed in the popular Classical Symphony, Prokofiev's homage to Haydn and Mozart. But he delivers high-octane power in the three steel-age symphonies that follow (the set is especially notable for the inclusion of both versions of the Fourth). The popular Fifth is done with passion, as is the neglected and underrated Sixth. Most surprising is the Seventh, an outwardly amiable piece with a sometimes-sardonic subtext, which Gergiev delivers in a natural, well-balanced interpretation. The London Symphony is a big part of the set's success. It's one of the world's great orchestras, here captured live in concert, and far superior to Gergiev's home band, the Kirov Orchestra. Along with fine ensemble playing, the LSO scores in making Prokofiev's important wind writing and solos crisply vivid. Rivals include outstanding individual recordings like Ancerl's Fifth, Malko's First and Seventh, and Kuchar's budget set on Naxos, but this convenient, well-performed box set is a heavyweight contender."-Dan Davis (Amazon.com)





> "Gergiev's performances here are never less than compelling and-given their live origin-are remarkable for the clarity of textures and the always purposefully shaped phrasing of even minor details."-BBC Music Magazine (July 2006). Rating: **** (of 5)


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## Vaneyes

Re Prokofiev symphonies, I fell out of love with everything but 1 & 5 (HvK). At some point, I think I will get the Rozhdestvensky cycle, which I think is the most exciting set. "Priortize" is the battlecry.

In the meantime, I'll listen to a YT of R's P6. :tiphat:


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## CyrilWashbrook

I've never heard a Prokofiev symphony. I guess now is as good a time to start as any. I'll follow realdealblues and listen to the recording by Järvi and the Scottish National Orchestra.


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## GioCar

chalkpie said:


> Can you give me your opinion overall on this set? It is ordered and en route to my house. Thanks.





Alypius said:


> In terms of complete sets, I find it excellent (everyone has favorites for this or that individual symphony, especially #5). A couple of reviews:


I second Alypius in finding this set overall very good. My favourite performances are the 3rd, the 6th and the 7th.


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## Guest

realdealblues said:


> This is not a work I'm overly familiar with. I think I've heard it 3 or 4 times in my life and it's been a little while since I last heard it so it should be fun revisiting it.
> 
> I will go with Neeme Jarvi/Scottish National Orchestra
> 
> View attachment 40399


In another thread, I asked for recommendations and this was the one I went with. Have been listening to 4th and 7th recently...so will now try 6th.


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## techniquest

Since Jeff W has chosen the Kitajenko recording, I'll go with LPO/Walter Weller from the Brilliant Classics set.


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## Mahlerian

I'll also listen to Weller/LSO.


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## Mika

Random pick from Spotify









This one from my collection:









Liked Oramo more


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## maestro267

The most immediately notable feature of this symphony is its key. One of only two symphonies I know of that's listed as being in E flat minor. Myaskovsky's Sixth is the other.


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## brotagonist

I'll give my CD a rest and try a different interpretation:

Orchestra: Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: Gennady Rozhdestvensky
Year of recording: 1965-1967 (?)


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## KenOC

brotagonist said:


> I'll give my CD a rest and try a different interpretation:
> 
> Orchestra: Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra
> Conductor: Gennady Rozhdestvensky
> Year of recording: 1965-1967 (?)


It was the Rozh 6th that convinced me to buy the whole set. Haven't been disappointed. The sound is a bit raw...but just the right amount for this music!


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## brotagonist

That was so nice, I decided to put on my CD immediately after:

NSO Ukraine/Kuchar

My first impression is that this is really very nice, too! However, I liked Rozh's strong horns and the tonal brightness. Kuchar is deeper and velvety... but I think some of the difference I am hearing is the difference between CD and YT. YT's dynamic range is very compressed, so that quiet passages tend to be relatively loud, while, with the CD, I have had to turn the volume up quite high to hear things that jumped out at me on YT. With all of these factors, comparison is complex ;-) The tempos between these two versions are pretty close, with Kuchar taking about 1:30 longer for the entire symphony.

I'm so keen on this right now, that I just might try another one or two versions later on today


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## Haydn man

GioCar said:


> I will go with Gergiev and the London SO


This is my choice for this week also


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## brotagonist

This has really gotten into my spirit today. I've decided to listen to two more performances...

Valery Gergiev conducts Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra

Marvellous... those horns, the piano. It's slow and languishing, really sensuous. The recording has some static in places, but it isn't too bad. It takes over 5 minutes longer than both Rozh/Moskow and Kuchar/Ukraine.

Just for contrast, I'll finish off with an extra spirited performance (as soon as the current one finishes in 10 minutes), over 2:30 faster than the aforementioned two, from...

Evgeny Mravinsky conducts Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra

Four versions in one day. I think I'll stop there. I have never done this and it really is fun ;-)


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## CyrilWashbrook

I listened but I didn't find it particularly memorable or engaging. I have heard some Prokofiev before - e.g. the Sinfonia Concertante - but I've tended to be more impressed by the technical skill of the performer than the music itself, if that makes sense. I haven't really acquired the taste yet for the dissonance that appears to be characteristic of his music.


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## Guest

CyrilWashbrook said:


> I listened but I didn't find it particularly memorable or engaging. I have heard some Prokofiev before - e.g. the Sinfonia Concertante - but I've tended to be more impressed by the technical skill of the performer than the music itself, if that makes sense. I haven't really acquired the taste yet for the dissonance that appears to be characteristic of his music.


Try his 1st Symphony first. At the risk of provoking the ire who reject the idea that listening might require "work", I'd say you might find that the more you listen, the less the dissonance gets in the way. But if you find nothing at all worth engaging with in the first place, you wouldn't want to persevere.

Life, on the other hand, is getting in the way of my listening even once through!


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## AClockworkOrange

I'm a little late for this Saturday Symphony but better late than never :lol:

I must admit to being unfamiliar with this particular Symphony. However, I have the complete cycle of Prokofiev's Symphonies by Neeme Jarvi & the RSNO so I will be listening to this recording today.


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## realdealblues

It's funny how our tastes change.

When I first heard this Symphony several years ago my only recollection was "crap" and it sticks in my mind that the second time I heard it, I didn't like it much better.

At some point within the last year I listened to it again and I remember asking myself, "why do I remember not liking it, that wasn't so bad". Now, listening to it again, I really enjoyed it.

I didn't think Prokofiev would ever really grow on me because I didn't like all the dissonance or music in general that didn't have nice pleasing melodies like Mozart, Haydn or Beethoven, but now I find Prokofiev has grown on me. 

I still find Mozart and Beethoven more listenable in general, but after a few melodic symphonies, listening to a Prokofiev or a Shostakovich where things aren't all "hummable melodies" (for lack of a better description) makes for a nice break and I find them far more enjoyable than I used to.

As a side comment to CyrilWashbrook in what MacLeod said. I think what helped me most was Prokofiev's Piano Sonatas. I remember hearing Sonata #7 and hating it the first time I heard it.

Eventually I bought a complete set of Prokofiev's Piano Sonatas and I started with Sonata #1 and listened it to a little while. Then moved onto Sonata #2 and so on. I found it was a gradual change in style and by the time I got to Piano Sonata #7 again it made more sense and wasn't near as hard to follow.


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## LancsMan

My favourite of the Prokofiev symphonies, seems a bit more serious than the 5th. However I am only familiar with the Jarvi / SNO recording (which is in my CD collection). Have seen no need as yet to buy an alternative.


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## techniquest

I just realised that I never got round to appraising the Weller / LPO recording from the cheapy Brilliant Classics box set. Many feel that this is Prokofiev's finest symphony, but sorry I don't - the 5th still wins for me.
This recording dates from November 1975 and has crisp, detailed sound with good balance between bass and treble. The first movement is taken rather slower than many I've heard, but it doesn't drag - it nearly does, but it gets away with it. At the development in the second section of this movement, there is more pace and the percussion sounds great. At the end of this, the whining horns bring the section to a close leaving a solo horn to bring in the first theme again, first on woods then on strings, then back to horn. The slow feel returns with this section and there is some really rather menacing quiet bass drum roll before we get to a reprise of the quacking brass of the second theme. I find this closing part of the movement disjointed; something I never felt with the 5th.
The 2nd movement (largo), opens with really scary dissonance. For me this is the finest movement in the symphony and this recording really does it justice. Prokofiev was a master with percussion, just listen to the way the stand cymbal is used in this movement. Also the clock-like woodblock / timpani exchange is crisp and not muddy. In a brilliant point of orchestration, Prokofiev links harp, celesta, horns and bass drum and again this recording captures these elements really nicely. This is a careful, detailed reading of the movement. At the climax, listen to how that stand cymbal is used again and then relish the reprise of the dissonant opening; brrr! - makes me shudder.
If the 2nd is the strongest movement, it is sorely let down by (for me) a weak finale. The recording is great, highlighted by roaring French horns belting out the tune, first heard on unison woods, at top blast. It all chugs along nicely at a hurried oom-pah with lovely littel clarinet highlights, until the tempo slows down on bassoons and bass clarinet to bring back some material from earlier in the symphony. The dissonant chords that opened the 2nd movement come back at full blast and for me this is where it should all end, on blaring trumpets. But instead, Prokofiev carries on with a hurried ending which feels as false as the optional bolt-on ending to the 7th.


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## Guest

Having now listened to this several times - Jarvi/SNO mostly, though now enjoying Rozhdestvensky - I can say that I like it, though not as much as the 5th. The 3rd movement's oompah band seems to me typical of Prokofiev's sense of humour, and once you get your head round the shape of the piece...

(Arrgghh...those horns have just come in and ruined it - too strident - to my ears at any rate - is this the Moscow Symphony?)

...as I was saying, it sounds like a Scottish fiddle band doing battle with a German brass band, with constant mimicking and reflecting of the themes. At one point, each band goes careering off into their own dissonance, yet come back together in dissonant harmony. Gorgeous!

I think I might now buy the Finnish State with Orami.


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## SONNET CLV

Prokofiev provides quite a bit of variety through the course of his symphonies. Though I favor the Fifth over the others, the others are splendid in their own right, with numbers 1, 6 and 7 spinning on my gear quite often. The ones I should revisit more often are 2, 3, and 4.


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## Guest

Reading the Product Description on Amazon about the cycle by Karabits with the Bournemouth SO, I spotted this.



> the death sentence or irregular heart beat depicted by the horns in the opening movement


Can anyone elaborate? Is this something Prokofiev himself asserted? Or someone else.

And is anyone else reminded of Wally Stott (Angela Morley) in the fizzing climax to the final movement?


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## KenOC

I’ve never read anything like that. Wiki says the Symphony No. 6 was written in 1947, and that Prokofiev was in poor health from about 1945. But the nature of his illnesses is not described, although the possibility of a stroke is mentioned in connection with his death in 1953. Nothing about an irregular heartbeat…


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