# Karol Szymanowski



## shsherm

I have not seen much about this Czech composer anywhere. The other evening I heard the music to the ballet "Harnasie" on the radio and recently read about but did not hear or attend a performance of his opera "Roger" performed at the Bard College music festival called SummerScape. I would like to know what other forum members think of this composer.


----------



## umpa

Szymanowski was one of the greatest  POLISH  composers, and one of my favourite composers.

If you enjoy Scriabin/Debussy/Ravel - you must try his music. 
If you love Chopin's piano - you must try his music.
If not - still give him a shot.

My recomendation:
Karol Szymanowski - The Complete Mazurkas

Great works - great performance.


----------



## marval

Hello umpa

Welcome to the forum, glad you could join us.

I don't know this composer, so I must try his music.


Margaret


----------



## kiwipolish

Szymanowski sounds good with some Fauré.


----------



## LvB

Why Szymanowski is not much more widely performed is a mystery to me. His music covers a wide range of styles, from the richly Straussian Concert Overture through Scriabinesque piano music to the mystical later works. Many years ago I heard Isacac Stern perform the _Nocturne and Tarantelle_ in a huge barn of a concert hall, and the sound absolutely filled the space. For those who don't know his music, I'd recommend starting with the first violin concerto (absolutely ravishing!), the aforementioned concert overture, or the second string quartet (the opening is among the most magical things I know in music. But I've never heard anything by Szymanowski that wasn't at least intriguing.


----------



## Edward Elgar

I'm learning his 9 preludes op.1 at the moment and find them amazing. The piece that really got me into Szym though was his violin concerto, which in my opinion is among the great VC's of all time. I find his earlier works (especially for piano) very Chopinesque and believe that if Chopin had lived all the way up to the 1940's he would be writing works like the VC and the 3rd Symphony. God bless Poland!


----------



## Saturnus

Szymanowski wrote some easy beginner works who are, amazingly, not utterly boring for the experienced listener. Bartók is probably the only other composer who managed doing this with his "For Children", so I consider Szymanowsky's beginner works a great compositional achievement, suggesting some mastery over the art, and have been trying to find more by him. The only thing I have found so far is a nocturne, 'La Murmure', by Maria Szymanowska (his sister?), it is very good though.


----------



## YsayeOp.27#6

Edward Elgar said:


> The piece that really got me into Szym though was his violin concerto,


Which one? He composed two of them.

I suggest the cd with piano works played by Piotr Anderszewski, includes Metopes, the third piano sonata and Masques.


----------



## Edward Elgar

The famous one, not the 2nd


----------



## Mirror Image

I have two sets of Szymanowski. One with Simon Rattle/City of Birmingham and the other is a various EMI 2-CD set one of the conductors is Antoni Wit. Anyway, I haven't heard much of his music other than Symphony No. 4, which is a beautiful piece of work, but to be honest I do not hear much impressionism from his music at all or at least the impressionism we know from Debussy, Ravel, Dukas, Delius, etc. He may very well have been influenced by Debussy and Ravel, but I don't really hear those influences.

I'm not sure why he isn't performed more. One reason could be that outside of Europe he's just not widely accepted. His music is pretty hard to follow at times, especially his first two symphonies.


----------



## Zasranec

I like his Sonata for Violin and Piano (from Chandos cd) and Violin Concerto No. 1 (I have it on Jennifer Koh's Portraits).


----------



## Sid James

I've heard his two violin concertos & compared to others of the same time, they sound even more contemporary and fresh. Not only are they quite rhapsodic and free in structure, but the movements are continuous. He seemed to be updating the genre, similar to what Liszt did with his two piano concertos almost a century earlier. I think they offer challenging but rewarding listening, nonetheless.


----------



## andruini

Mirror Image said:


> I'm not sure why he isn't performed more. One reason could be that outside of Europe he's just not widely accepted. His music is pretty hard to follow at times, especially his first two symphonies.


I gotta say, I'm listening to the Dorati/Detroit recording of the 2nd and 3rd symphonies and I'm finding them very accessible. This is a composer whose music I had never heard, and so far, just from the 2nd symphony and the first mvt. of the 3rd, he has totally enraptured me.. I shall be seeking out more of his music, without a doubt..


----------



## Mirror Image

andruini said:


> I gotta say, I'm listening to the Dorati/Detroit recording of the 2nd and 3rd symphonies and I'm finding them very accessible. This is a composer whose music I had never heard, and so far, just from the 2nd symphony and the first mvt. of the 3rd, he has totally enraptured me.. I shall be seeking out more of his music, without a doubt..


Yes, they are accessible, but some parts of his music I find questionable. My favorite composition is his Symphony No. 4, especially the 2nd movement, which is absolutely beautiful.

andruini, you have to hear Symphony No. 4 my friend.


----------



## andruini

Mirror Image said:


> Yes, they are accessible, but some parts of his music I find questionable. My favorite composition is his Symphony No. 4, especially the 2nd movement, which is absolutely beautiful.
> 
> andruini, you have to hear Symphony No. 4 my friend.


Will do!! 
I'm not believing this stuff.. I'm liking it waaay more than I expected to..


----------



## Lisztfreak

I bought a 2CD set of Szymanowski a few days ago. Having listened to everything twice, my first impressions are:

The Violin Concertos failed to attract my attention.
The Symphonie concertante (sometimes called Symphony No.4) is very good.
The Symphony No.3 is multifaceted, but for now I'll only say it's got a very nice and goldish colour and is spicy and velvety.
Demeter is a nice choral composition, nothing special.
Litany to the Virgin Mary is a bit better.

Stabat Mater is the only exception because I haven't listened to it yet. Will do it today.


----------



## Mirror Image

The slow movement (Andante molto sostenuto) in Symphonie Concertante (Symphony No. 4) is a beautifully arresting moments in music. There's a spookiness, unsettling vibe happening underneath the movements beautifully lush surface.


----------



## Sid James

I just got the Naxos cd of Szymanowski's two _String Quartets _& I'm impressed. These are sensuous, passionate & very emotional works. They can be compared in terms of quality & content to Janacek's two SQ's. The first is lighter & impressionistic, the second more pared down, astringent & less tonal. I especially like how he begins the last movement of No. 1 with a short introduction that sounds like Beethoven to me, then he segues into a Polish folk melody, the main theme. There are many influences evident here, but Szymanowski had a very unique voice.

It's a pity that the man died relatively young, of TB, and we were robbed of much great music that would have resulted had he lived longer, like Stravinsky (they were born around the same time). So I look forward to exploring his symphonies in particular in the future...


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Szymanowsky is something of a recent discovery for me... and one I am quite enthusiastic about. I quite like his violin concertos, symphony no. 4, _Harnasie_, _King Roger_, and the _Stabat Mater_. The works are achingly beautiful... passionately sensuous as many late Romantics... but I agree, he has his own voice.


----------



## Aramis

I know his violin concertos, Stabat Mater, string quartets, symphonie concentrate, and symphony No. 3, and I like them all. Espcially the violin concertos.


----------



## Sid James

Perhaps more than any other composer of his generation, Szymanowski learnt from & was influenced by so many other composers. From R. Strauss, Reger & Mahler in the early days of the C20th, right through to more modern trends just prior to his death in the 1930's - like say Bartok or Prokofiev. At the same time, his music is quite individual - for example, neither Mahler or Strauss would have ended a work with a set of variations & a fugue like Szymanowski in his _Symphony No. 2_. Then there's _Symphony No. 3 'Song of the night_,' ravishingly oriental & a bit impressionistic as well. & then his final work in the genre _Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia Concertante' _which is virtually a piano concerto. Like the ballet _Harnasie_ it incorporates some of the music of the Tatra mountains in Poland, a place which the composer really loved. The latter work also has a choir & tenor, which is unusual for a ballet. I think Szymanowski was one of a few composers whose output straddled many styles & directions, he was interested in exploring new horizons throughout his all too short life...


----------



## shsherm

I just heard a program the other night where one of the presenters said he thought that Szymanowski's music has been neglected was because he was a homosexual and was more open about it than other composers of his time.


----------



## Jaime77

I like his music a lot now. Naxos does 3 very good CDs of his music and I recommend to anyone unsure about him, who would like to explore. The 4 symphonies are available on 2 CDs (3 and 4 are gems, in 2 very different ways) and ilya kaler playing the violin conertos, a top recommended interpretation. check these out. i was not disappointed.


----------



## jurianbai

Can I safely say the Szymanowski's Violin Concertos no1 and 2 are fully atonal piece? I got the Naxos version with rather unknown violinist Ilya Kaler playing. The piece is like having many unconnected parts combined into 1 piece, the melody is UNmemorable. But so far it's not so dissonance and listenable, but I still not see the whole picture.


----------



## Head_case

Noooo! (give it up! Atonal my ****!)


The Naxos version isn't definitive (lol ~ there's that word again). Kulka's version was unrivalled for years; then came Zehetmair's version with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra which brought much new insights to the music. Polski Nagrania had a version on LP which I have, which retains its Polish charm, and Chantal Julliet, the 'quiet' violinist of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra is so mouse like that her sonorities disappear into the orchestra. Kaler struggles a little with this, which is why on balance, Zehetmair's version is the one I'd go for of all the versions I have. The orchestra is more attuned to Zehetmair's violin and volume, than other combinations I've heard. Of course, you could try amp'g just the violin frequencies on your amplifier 

I'm not surprised that some can't get Szymanowski, or that others infer slander and gossip about his sexuality. Amateur psychoanalysts make great failed listeners: they hear their own sexual neurosis in an essentially, transpersonal field: music. I don't care whether I listen to a female or a male composer, or one who struggles to write as either. I listen for their music; that essentially expresses, human connectedness, which goes beyond the politics of differences and the divisive language of separation and alienation. 

On the other hand, it's good to see this thread and to see that many do dig Szymanowski.


----------



## jurianbai

Ha.. blame it to the violinist then. Ok, surely it need time to fully get into Szymanowski, at the moment it's very loose connection from one part to another. But I sense the VC #1 and #2 quite different. The CD notes the span of years between the two is wide (can't remember now). I think I like #2 better.


----------



## TWhite

Edward Elgar said:


> I'm learning his 9 preludes op.1 at the moment and find them amazing. The piece that really got me into Szym though was his violin concerto, which in my opinion is among the great VC's of all time. I find his earlier works (especially for piano) very Chopinesque and believe that if Chopin had lived all the way up to the 1940's he would be writing works like the VC and the 3rd Symphony. God bless Poland!


Agreed, the Preludes are astonishing. I've worked on several of them and find them marvelous to learn and perform. After the Preludes, I'd suggest the Four Etudes. The second of them, in b-flat minor is one of the most intense and beautiful 'elegies' I've ever heard or played. It's a handful--especially in the almost atonal left-hand scale passages, but it's very much worth learning. It's exhausting to play, both technically and emotionally.

I like Szymanowski, he may be 'influenced' by other of his contempararies, but he goes his own way, follows his own path. Haven't heard anything of his that I don't like, so far.

Tom


----------



## TWhite

shsherm said:


> I just heard a program the other night where one of the presenters said he thought that Szymanowski's music has been neglected was because he was a homosexual and was more open about it than other composers of his time.


Sorry, couldn't pass this up--but what on earth does a composer's sexual preference have to do with the quality of their music being accepted by audiences? Sounds as if the presenter has been watching FAR too much in the way of TV 'reality' shows. Most concertgoers IMO could care a fig less about a composer's sex life, as long as the music moves them.

I've certainly heard my share of Szymanowski at concerts and recitals. And audience reaction always seems to be positive.

I wonder about what the presenter thinks about the still almost overwhelming acceptance of Tchiakovsky on concert programs? Or is he perhaps trying to excuse the fact that he still doesn't 'get' Szymanowski? 
Okay, now I feel better. Hope I haven't stirred up a hornet's nest.

Tom


----------



## Head_case

jurianbai said:


> Ha.. blame it to the violinist then. Ok, surely it need time to fully get into Szymanowski, at the moment it's very loose connection from one part to another. But I sense the VC #1 and #2 quite different. The CD notes the span of years between the two is wide (can't remember now). I think I like #2 better.


Remember that Szymanowski collaborated with the then greatest living violinist - Paul Kochanski.

The 'looseness' you describe is most certainly from a smaller violinist failing to make the violin's stature into prominence. The concertos are indeed very different; same goes for his string quartets. I love the wispy moonlight slivers of violin playing throughout both concertos.


----------



## jurianbai

Agree, I watched this video : 



 and much different from the one Ilya Kaler doing. The visualization help me understand more this piece.


----------



## Aramis

I've found and uploaded rare archival recordings of his voice on YouTube:


----------



## jalex

Just watched King Roger, it's absolutely brilliant:


----------



## Guest

I just bought the 4 Symphonies on Naxo Blu-Ray audio discs--superb sound and performances.


----------



## Feathers

I only recently got into Szymanowski, but I'm beginning to like him increasingly more after every listen. His symphonies have chew-able lengths but still carry tons of colour and "weight". I heard his Symphony No. 2 today, and it was fantastic! Didn't expect myself to like the fugue, but I did.  So far I've liked/loved everything I've heard by him (symphonies, violin concertos, sonatas, string quartets, etc), hopefully this continues!


----------



## Kazaman

I'm sort of lukewarm toward his piano sonatas, but his symphonies and chamber works are wonderful.


----------



## Neo Romanza

My favorite Szymanowski works are _Harnasie_, _Symphonies 3 & 4_, _Stabat Mater_, _Violin Concertos 1 & 2_, and all of his orchestral songs. Absolutely enchanting music.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kazaman said:


> I'm sort of lukewarm toward his piano sonatas, but his symphonies and chamber works are wonderful.


Re piano, have you experienced the Hamelin and Anderszewski recs?


----------



## Neo Romanza

I've been revisiting many of Szymanowski's orchestral works this afternoon and finding that my enthusiasm for his music has not waned one bit, in fact, I've only gained a better appreciation for his music as I progressed through the works. Here's what I listened to:

_Violin Concertos Nos. 1 & 2_
_Songs for a Fairy Tale Princess_
_Symphony No. 4 'Symphonie Concertante'_
_Litany to the Virgin Mary_
_Symphony No. 3 'Song of the Night'_
_Stabat Mater_
_Harnasie_

I switched recordings around. I either listened to Rattle or Wit. Both conductors are clearly masters of this repertoire. What I love about Szymanowski is the fact that his music is constantly in motion and changing. It's like one of those holographic images that changes shape depending on the angle. There's a 'smoke and mirrors' feel to a lot of his music but this elusiveness makes the music even more attractive for me. I also love the way he developed a highly rhapsodic style which enables him to create these otherworldly textures and atmosphere.

I need to dig back into his chamber music as this proved to be of quite high quality as well. There's not a doubt in my mind that Szymanowski is major 20th Century composer with a unique perspective and character all his own.


----------



## violadude

Neo Romanza said:


> I've been revisiting many of Szymanowski's orchestral works this afternoon and finding that my enthusiasm for his music has not waned one bit, in fact, I've only gained a better appreciation for his music as I progressed through the works. Here's what I listened to:
> 
> _Violin Concertos Nos. 1 & 2_
> _Songs for a Fairy Tale Princess_
> _Symphony No. 4 'Symphonie Concertante'_
> _Litany to the Virgin Mary_
> _Symphony No. 3 'Song of the Night'_
> _Stabat Mater_
> _Harnasie_
> 
> I switched recordings around. I either listened to Rattle or Wit. Both conductors are clearly masters of this repertoire. What I love about Szymanowski is the fact that his music is constantly in motion and changing. It's like one of those holographic images that changes shape depending on the angle. There's a 'smoke and mirrors' feel to a lot of his music but this elusiveness makes the music even more attractive for me. I also love the way he developed a highly rhapsodic style which enables him to create these otherworldly textures and atmosphere.
> 
> I need to dig back into his chamber music as this proved to be of quite high quality as well. There's not a doubt in my mind that Szymanowski is major 20th Century composer with a unique perspective and character all his own.


Have you heard his string quartets or piano pieces? I haven't heard his orchestral works but I really like his pieces from the aforementioned mediums.


----------



## Neo Romanza

violadude said:


> Have you heard his string quartets or piano pieces? I haven't heard his orchestral works but I really like his pieces from the aforementioned mediums.


I haven't heard much of his solo piano music (not a favorite genre of mine) and I have heard his SQs. Great stuff for sure. _Myths_ for violin and piano is another work that is just so ravishingly beautiful. I'm surprised you haven't explored his orchestral music yet. There's a treasure trove of good music awaiting you my friend.


----------



## violadude

Neo Romanza said:


> I haven't heard much of his solo piano music (not a favorite genre of mine) and I have heard his SQs. Great stuff for sure. _Myths_ for violin and piano is another work that is just so ravishingly beautiful. I'm surprised you haven't explored his orchestral music yet. There's a treasure trove of good music awaiting you my friend.


From what I've already heard from Szymanowski, I don't doubt it at all


----------



## Neo Romanza

Just for you, violadude:

_Harnasie_ -


----------



## Neo Romanza

Another one for you, violadude:

_Violin Concerto No. 1_ -


----------



## violadude

Thanks!  I'll listen to these tonight and tell you my opinion.


----------



## Neo Romanza

You're welcome. Look forward to your comments.


----------



## Neo Romanza

Hey violadude, did you ever get a chance to listen to these two works?


----------



## Head_case

The Mordkovitch violin sonata is the version I have. It's brilliantly played and enjoyed sparingly like high brow culture. Virtuoso violin pieces tend to make me feel I've left the human race for the feline species. 

The string quartets can be more polarising than the orchestral and violin concertos: I love the two opulently rich and mystically inclined string quartets by the classic interpreters but not so much by the new bandwagon Szymanowski gruppies who have jumped on its finally deserved success. Litany to the Virgin Mary and Stabat Mater make it to my favourite choral shortlist period


----------



## Neo Romanza

Head_case said:


> The Mordkovitch violin sonata is the version I have. It's brilliantly played and enjoyed sparingly like high brow culture. Virtuoso violin pieces tend to make me feel I've left the human race for the feline species.
> 
> The string quartets can be more polarising than the orchestral and violin concertos: I love the two opulently rich and mystically inclined string quartets by the classic interpreters but not so much by the new bandwagon Szymanowski gruppies who have jumped on its finally deserved success. Litany to the Virgin Mary and Stabat Mater make it to my favourite choral shortlist period


All fine works for sure, head_case. _Litany to the Virgin Mary_ and _Stabat Mater_ are masterpieces and I don't like to throw that word around much but I just can't help it.  I would add _Symphony No. 3 'Song of the Night'_ to that list of distinguished orchestral/choral works.


----------



## Praeludium

Wow that violin concerto is amazing, I'll listen to more Szymanowski in the future !


----------



## violadude

Neo Romanza said:


> Hey violadude, did you ever get a chance to listen to these two works?


I listened to them last night, but the orchestral piece (not the violin concerto) was much heftier than I thought it would be O.O I need to listen to it a few more times and also the violin concerto. I did like what I hear on a superficial level though.


----------



## Neo Romanza

violadude said:


> I listened to them last night, but the orchestral piece (not the violin concerto) was much heftier than I thought it would be O.O I need to listen to it a few more times and also the violin concerto. I did like what I hear on a superficial level though.


Well _Harnasie_ is a ballet and it has some very cool Bartokian overtones here and there. It's a rustic work because of the folk influence, so it's more earthy sounding. The _Violin Concerto No. 1_ couldn't be a greater contrast. This work is dreamy and atmospheric with exotic overtones.


----------



## staxomega

Giving this old thread a bump. What are the opinions of the performances of the symphonies by Gardner/BBCSO (Chandos)?


----------



## Ukko

And... I hope everyone is familiar with Mythes.


----------



## Vaneyes

staxomega said:


> Giving this old thread a bump. What are the opinions of the performances of the symphonies by Gardner/BBCSO (Chandos)?


Gardner is on a frantic recording pace to fill the Chandos catalogue with anything and everything. Comparable to Gergiev with LSO Live.

To the point, after sampling Gardner Szymanowski, I think both Stryja and Wit have better grasps of this composer than Gardner or Gergiev. In this case, the Gs don't have it. :tiphat:


----------



## Vaneyes

Ukko said:


> And... I hope everyone is familiar with Mythes.


I am, and I can suggest the Kramer & Durcan rec. for it and other selections. :tiphat:


----------



## staxomega

Vaneyes said:


> Gardner is on a frantic recording pace to fill the Chandos catalogue with anything and everything. Comparable to Gergiev with LSO Live.
> 
> To the point, after sampling Gardner Szymanowski, I think both Stryja and Wit have better grasps of this composer than Gardner or Gergiev. In this case, the Gs don't have it. :tiphat:


Sounds good thanks!


----------



## Aramis

Vaneyes said:


> I am, and I can suggest the Kramer & Durcan rec. for it and other selections. :tiphat:


My alternative recommendation for Mythes would be that recording:










And that Gardner isn't bad at all, in my opinion. If you like these symphonies enough to collect multiple recordings (it wouldn't be strange), it can very well be your 2nd or 3rd choice.


----------



## starthrower

What about the piano music? I heard good things about the Sinae Lee set.


----------



## Vaneyes

starthrower said:


> What about the piano music? I heard good things about the Sinae Lee set.


His piano music (not entirely original--large Scriabin influence) is well represented by sets and singles. I think Jones is the leader for a set. Then, pick 'em, Roscoe or Lee.

Raymond Clarke is often touted for his single CD of Sonatas, but I've not heard it.

Since I don't feel a set is warranted, I'm happy with the Anderszewski and Hamelin singles. :tiphat:


----------



## Aramis

Vaneyes said:


> His piano music (not entirely original--large Scriabin influence)


Such rubbish. Just as the entire output, his piano works can be divided into three periods and the later two are hardly what you describe (not that the first would fit your description very well either).

His mazurkas for piano especially are as original as it gets, since they belong to the works inspired by Tatra folklore - an inspiration and consequent flavor that no other great composer shares. Don't go for blank Hamelin's recording though with these.

I have recommended Jerzy Godziszewski's complete box of Szymanowski's piano works milion times already and repeat the recommendation once more.


----------



## Vaneyes




----------



## Aramis




----------



## starthrower

Well thanks guys, I'm going with the Sinae Lee set.


----------



## Vaneyes

starthrower said:


> Well thanks guys, I'm going with the Sinae Lee set.


You're welcome, and enjoy your purchase. :tiphat:


----------



## Kilgore Trout

Vaneyes said:


> Gardner is on a frantic recording pace to fill the Chandos catalogue with anything and everything. Comparable to Gergiev with LSO Live.
> 
> To the point, after sampling Gardner Szymanowski, I think both Stryja and Wit have better grasps of this composer than Gardner or Gergiev. In this case, the Gs don't have it. :tiphat:


I've just head Gardner's 3th, it's dreadful and wrong for a lot of reasons, but Gergiev's interpretations are great, especially the 4th and the first violin concerto, up there with Wit and better than Stryja (which suffers from a not-so-good orchestra and terrible sound). Gergiev is probably the only non-polish conductor who actually understands Szymanowski's music.

And "not entirely original--large Scriabin influence"? Come on.


----------



## starthrower

Jerzy Semkow's 3rd on EMI is outstanding!


----------



## Kilgore Trout

Indeed.

This message is too short.


----------



## Vaneyes

Kilgore Trout said:


> I've just head Gardner's 3th, it's dreadful and wrong for a lot of reasons, but Gergiev's interpretations are great, especially the 4th and the first violin concerto, up there with Wit and better than Stryja (which suffers from a not-so-good orchestra and terrible sound). Gergiev is probably the only non-polish conductor who actually understands Szymanowski's music.
> 
> And "not entirely original--large Scriabin influence"? Come on.


Give it up, Mr. Trout. Gergiev is a toothpick waver who doesn't care to rehearse his orchestras. His Szymanowski is similar to his other less successful objects, displaying ill-chosen tempi and dynamics. Bad-mouthing Stryja? The horror, the horror, the horror.

Re Szymanowski piano works, a significant Scriabin influence is easy to hear. What challenges you here? C'mon.


----------



## Kilgore Trout

Vaneyes said:


> Give it up, Mr. Trout. Gergiev is a toothpick waver who doesn't care to rehearse his orchestras.


The Szymanowski concerts were rehearsed.



Vaneyes said:


> His Szymanowski is similar to his other less successful objects, displaying ill-chosen tempi and dynamics.


Ok, just the same old myths about Gergiev, that don't bear a real hearing with the score, and doesn't show any understanding of how Gergiev actually works.
If you really want to go down that road, take out the scores and show me examples of "ill-chosen tempi and dynamics".



Vaneyes said:


> Re Szymanowski piano works, a significant Scriabin influence is easy to hear. What challenges you here? C'mon.


I'm not saying that the Scriabin influence isn't here at times, but saying it's "large" and that his piano music isn't original is dead wrong. Szymanowski's harmonic writing, especially in the best piano pieces like _Masques_, has nothing to do with Scriabin's harmonic writing. Scriabin influence is more pregnant in orchestral pieces of the so-called impressionistic period.


----------



## Vaneyes

And I've read they weren't rehearsed, and it sounds like it to me. 

Understanding the way Gergiev works? I've heard enough, read enough, to understand the way Gergiev works. No thanks, his day's done for me. Myths, ha.

Spin the Scriabin influence anyway you want. Good day, Mr. Trout. :tiphat:


----------



## Kilgore Trout

Vaneyes said:


> And I've read they weren't rehearsed, and it sounds like it to me.


They were so "not rehearsed" that the were open rehearsals before the concerts.



Vaneyes said:


> Understanding the way Gergiev works? I've heard enough, read enough, to understand the way Gergiev works. No thanks, his day's done for me. Myths, ha.
> 
> Spin the Scriabin influence anyway you want. Good day, Mr. Trout. :tiphat:


Flee as much as you want. You obviously know little of Szymanowski's music. Instead of repeating like a deaf sheep vague affirmations and approximations based on your so-called "readings", you should try to actually do a little work by yourself.

To quote your words, your days are done to me.


----------



## Cosmos

...anyway,

Getting more and more into this composer. I've already heard his Symphonies 3 and 4, both are awesome. The other day I tried out this performance of his first: 




Reading up on it, I was concerned it would be bad. Szymanowski himself dismissed it, calling it something along the lines of a "contrapunctal harmonic orchestral monster". After the first four minutes, I understood what he meant: it's like a Strauss + Scriabin love child, flowing drama with a lot of heavy textures going on in the background. If that's monstrous, then I'm more brave than I thought :lol:


----------



## GreenMamba

Cosmos said:


> The other day I tried out this performance of his first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reading up on it, I was concerned it would be bad. Szymanowski himself dismissed it, calling it something along the lines of a "contrapunctal harmonic orchestral monster". After the first four minutes, I understood what he meant: it's like a Strauss + Scriabin love child, flowing drama with a lot of heavy textures going on in the background. If that's monstrous, then I'm more brave than I thought :lol:


I like #1 and think it is unfortunate that it is saddled with the composers own criticisms of it. I think it is mostly an issue of it not being what he wanted it to be, rather than it being unlistenable.

That being said, I think #2 is much better than #1.


----------



## starthrower

The 1st symphony is one of the few pieces I haven't heard. So far I've purchased recordings of the other 3 symphonies, the chamber music for violin and piano, the violin concertos, the opera King Roger, the Harnasie ballet, and his sacred choral music. I find it all very impressive and satisfying to listen to. One of these days I'll pick up the piano music.


----------



## paulbest

LvB said:


> Why Szymanowski is not much more widely performed is a mystery to me. His music covers a wide range of styles, from the richly Straussian Concert Overture through Scriabinesque piano music to the mystical later works. Many years ago I heard Isacac Stern perform the _Nocturne and Tarantelle_ in a huge barn of a concert hall, and the sound absolutely filled the space. For those who don't know his music, I'd recommend starting with the first violin concerto (absolutely ravishing!), the aforementioned concert overture, or the second string quartet (the opening is among the most magical things I know in music. But I've never heard anything by Szymanowski that wasn't at least intriguing.


As I mentioned earlier, I began a new diligent search of trying to find hidden gems among the mountains of classical composers. ..I may have overlooked a few in my past 20+ years of beinga devotee to great classical music....,,,Can not recall how I came upon Szymanowski, but let me tell you,,,it was indeed like a Motherload ofa gold mine, Solid core gold in that mountain, ,,the whole mountain solid gold, no dirt , the more I dug, the more gems. UNREAL.

Szymanowski is right there with DSCH, Schnittke, and all my other beloved composers, nota lesser, but equal. 
Later when I have time I will give my recommends on his great great masterpiece King Roger. I think I have 4 recordings.

It is indeed one of the great mysteries in all classical Q's, why is Szymanowski not more widely known, respected for his superior genius?

Major discovery I made in Szymanowski. All his works are winners, no duds. 
Time for Brucknerians/Mahlerians to break out and begin to explore a Brave New World.


----------



## paulbest

shsherm said:


> I have not seen much about this Czech composer anywhere. The other evening I heard the music to the ballet "Harnasie" on the radio and recently read about but did not hear or attend a performance of his opera "Roger" performed at the Bard College music festival called SummerScape. I would like to know what other forum members think of this composer.


What do I think? 
His King Roger is a stunning masterpiece,,,right there with any of the great classical, romantic/modern composers, Right there = equal, not less than.;

His syms are good, to excellent, chamber good to excellent, Concertos , good to excellent. 
Here is the Ballet you mentioned. 
Now I wish we had access to a recording of this performance in which every section, and some flutes, winds had their own separate mic, so each section, perfect micing, each wind , a individual mic. Brass just one mic..Chorus, several mics, but slightly adjusted at fffff sections, tones down a tad. = better balance twix orch/soloists, subtle winds, and chorus. 
Ohhh how much music do you think, imagine we are missing in so many of our favorite works...(subject for a topic for sure,,I'm busy and can't,,please someone go with a OP),,,,its a fine work, yet too often the excellent power of the chorus drowns out the strings, winds. 
We are not hearing this work as intended by the composer. 
Pity there is so much more here, we ,,(at least me, with poor hearing, as I failed a hearing test over at my refinery scaffold job some 4 yrs ago,,to the laughter of coworkers) ...music we are missing out on.

Maybe I can find a record with better micing.

If you have not heard King Roger,,put it on your list for this year. I have 3 or 4 recordings.


----------



## paulbest

Now you see, this is exactly what I;'ve been trying to tell you guys past 3 or 4 months. The performance really does matter. 
And JUST WHEN you thought you really knew his sq's, ,,,along comes this....I'm trying to tell you guys, Szymanowski is a major significant 20th C modern composer.
Polands greatest 20th C composer.


----------



## paulbest

It only gets better,,,trust me, I had no idea these works existed until just now.
,,,Does it get any better than this,,,you might continue to listen to Chopin,,as I know many of you are committed romantics, and ,,its a matter of ,,,*that's that*,,,you fall in Group #2 as so described by a seasoned member here on TC...but as for me, I had nothing of Chopin in my collection,,and felt something was missing, lacking,,,wished for something more than what Chopin offers.

along comes this..
man sometimes you got to dig to find the gold , it just does not drop out the sky.

The encounter with Szymanowski this year has been a major Revelation.


----------



## paulbest

Yet further evidence, to back my story up.
Read amazon fan's comment from 2006 review

all too typical scenario ,,* I had thought I knew Szymanowski,,based on 1 or 2 LP's I had of bis music,,and really never made much of a impression,,,UNTIL….*. 
All too common.

https://www.amazon.com/Szymanowski-...eway&sprefix=szymanowski+piano,aps,147&sr=8-2


----------



## millionrainbows

I hear they make a helluva pickle over there, too.


----------



## starthrower

He rarely gets mentioned in the company of the other great modernists of the early 20th century but I too feel that Szymanowski belongs there. I've been impressed by most of what I've heard including Symphonies 2-4, the violin concertos, the two disc chamber music set on Brilliant Classics, King Roger on Naxos, and the sacred choral disc also on Naxos. I haven't explored his piano sonatas.


----------



## paulbest

His violin/piano and piano solo works,,are ~~~off the charts~~~Read the comments on youtube and amazon,,,*blown away*,,, * I had no idea what I've been missing all these yrs...*. UNREAL*,,,,*WOW*,,,*huge discovery*,,,I'm thinking he means in Gold...and I thought it was Ravel who has been the most sorely neglected, forgotten,,it is in fact Szymanowski who is *The Unknown Modern Composer*. …
Do you see how Bernstein made Mahler famous?
Well my guess is Szymanowski is set for discovery,,,another 20 years or so, he too will, rank as popular as Beethoven. ,,,ahh make that 30 years from now. ,,,The cds might be OOP/rare in a distant future,,,, and go for $$$$$...I ain't selling, IF I was alive at that time.
They go cheap now, as no one knows who he is....his music is flying under the radar.


----------



## paulbest

starthrower said:


> He rarely gets mentioned in the company of the other great modernists of the early 20th century .


This was my objective these past few months, starting 2019. 
I leave no stone unturned.

I'm always curious what might be hidden here and there.

Seek and you will find. 
Lazy birds get no rewards. 
If its a jewel and jems, I'm gonna find it,,,popular vote does not deter me from discovering High Art.


----------



## millionrainbows

On one hand, this sounds like romantic music. What's the deal, are you guys "pickleheads?"


----------



## starthrower

What's with you and the pickles? Szymanowski sounds thoroughly modern to my ears. If there's some romance in his music it doesn't make him a romantic composer. He's not Rachmaninov.


----------



## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> What's with you and the pickles? Szymanowski sounds thoroughly modern to my ears. If there's some romance in his music it doesn't make him a romantic composer. He's not Rachmaninov.


He's a little more gnarly than Rach, but basically, his phrasings and gestures sound overtly romantic; as StLukesGuildOhio put it, "achingly beautiful." If I want that, I always have the Andre Previn violin concerto to fall back on.

Not to be overly critical, but you guys sound like "fans," or as I put it, "pickle heads," like similar "Deadheads" and "Parrotheads" (fans of Jimmy Buffett).

As a historical curiosity, I can see an interest in Szymanowski, but beyond that, I don't see him as a great innovator, but just as a composer doing bread-and-butter work.

If a recording of his music, maybe in SACD, was played well enough, and sounded good enough, I would be interested in it for mainly sensual reasons, to soothe my nervous system.

Sorry for the rude interruption. And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's back to the Szymanowski show, already in progress.


----------



## starthrower

I like his music. Yes, I'm a fan. I don't care about all the techical stuff. Music is meant to be listened to and enjoyed. If a piece of music moves me that's what matters. I'm not interested in parsing a composer's music so I can argue about points of modernism or whatever. If you don't like his music, go listen to something else.


----------



## millionrainbows

What's technical? and I never said i didn't like Szymanowski's music; I was much more subtle than that.

So I guess that there's not much difference between you, and a person who likes "Achy Breaky Heart."

Myself, classical music is all part of my "conceptual continuity" which includes my extra-musical knowledge, interest in art, history, etc.


----------



## starthrower

millionrainbows said:


> So I guess that there's not much difference between you, and a person who likes "Achy Breaky Heart."


I don't know what that means? Humans are multi dimensional. If someone likes Achy Breaky Heart, who cares?


----------



## paulbest

starthrower said:


> I like his music. Yes, I'm a fan. I don't care about all the techical stuff. Music is meant to be listened to and enjoyed. If a piece of music moves me that's what matters. I'm not interested in parsing a composer's music so I can argue about points of modernism or whatever. If you don't like his music, go listen to something else.


No, no,,relax,,,Million is only making a few observations based on his musical experiences.
I mean, I guess you might say Szymanowski is romantic expressive,,,but not like say Rimsky Korsakov or Tchaikovsky, Saint Seans, music I have no feelings for. 
I would definetly place szymanowski as Modern, with glimmerings of romanticism. Which is really super special,,as you get 2 treats for the price of 1. 
Which other composer marries both sound worlds in one wholistic imagery? Perhaps Prokofiev is very successful here. 
Whereas Rachmaninov and Sibelius are stuck in the late romantic era,,,a epoch that bores me and have no interest in,,except for Puccini and Wagner.

Szymanowski remains a hidden jewel in the classical tradition. Will he remain a treasure hidden? Or will the classical community wake up from its ,,,present state of coma?

No one can make any harm or harsh critique of Szymanowski, his music stands Golden, shimmering with beams of creative light.

Now its no longer Ravel as the most neglected, most under appreciated for me,, there is only 1 composer which completely fulfills this place of unforgivable negligence by the coma-tic state of the classical community, that composer is , Karol SZYMANOWSKI


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> He's a little more gnarly than Rach, but basically, his phrasings and gestures sound overtly romantic; as StLukesGuildOhio put it, "achingly beautiful." If I want that, I always have the Andre Previn violin concerto to fall back on.
> 
> Not to be overly critical, but you guys sound like "fans," or as I put it, "pickle heads," like similar "Deadheads" and "Parrotheads" (fans of Jimmy Buffett).
> 
> As a historical curiosity, I can see an interest in Szymanowski, but beyond that, I don't see him as a great innovator, but just as a composer doing bread-and-butter work.
> 
> If a recording of his music, maybe in SACD, was played well enough, and sounded good enough, I would be interested in it for mainly sensual reasons, to soothe my nervous system.
> 
> Sorry for the rude interruption. And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's back to the Szymanowski show, already in progress.


I realize you might be *just saying* in this post,,not anything serious,,which is excusable and can be edited later on. 
Which is understandable,

What is not understandable, nor 
forgivable
is the neglect and disregard for the genius of Szymanowski, among the classical community. 
Whose music is , in my honest/fair minded , opinion, ranks far superior to any from Stravinsky. 
yes I did say, and mean,, *far superior*.


----------



## starthrower

Ravel is not neglected at this forum. I'm not sure who's doing the neglecting? I have no problem with Million's critique of what he hears or doesn't hear in Szymanowski. But don't label me a shameless punter because I believe he deserves a fair amount of recognition. I've never gone on and on about any composer.


----------



## paulbest

Oh but I do go on and on, promoting what I know is high genius in musical forms. 
Ravel as *not neglected*,.,,Sure there are some of us here who hold in esteem, very high for Ravel,,,but if you ck any orchestra's programs,,you might find 1 or 2 in any given season. 
Take France Radio Orch schedule,,,only Ma Mer Loye offered, a 15 minute masterpiece, France should have Ravel on every program, every concert at least 1 work, at EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM. They don't = Neglect and and shameful disregard.

all the ochestras world wide commit the same pitiful, foolish nonsense.

https://www.orchestre-ile.com/saison.php?saison=28&lang=en


----------



## Larkenfield

A few gems by Rubinstein:


----------



## Sid James

If Szymanowski’s music wholly lacked innovation, who else I ask studied and absorbed the music of the Goral people of Poland like he did? Seriously, this is textbook stuff in terms of Szymanowski’s achievements.


----------



## paulbest

Look do I have to make all the great discoveries in 
Szymanowski??
Come on folks awaken from your romanticized sleep, 
Mahler?
Bruckner?

Once you hear Szymanowski. you'll never go back in those 2 , countless other romantics, like Sibelius, Chopin, all these and many more will fall from the heavens.
Szymanowski cracks the sky.
There is something about me, ,,when I makeav major discovery,,I leave no stone unturned.
I go to the far reaches of earth, Sahara , Mt Everest , where I can unearth a great Szymanowski record.

BREAKING NEWS,,major discovery, 1990 release!!!!!!! 
That's 30 yrs ago!!!!!
wake up folks, get away from those romantics.
There is great music to be heard.


----------



## flamencosketches

Where is the best place to start? I’ve heard a few of his Mazurkas and bits and pieces of some orchestral works.


----------



## starthrower

Symphonies 3 & 4, the first violin concerto, chamber music for violin and piano. There's a fine chamber music 2 disc set on Brilliant Classics. I have the Frank Peter Zimmerman Sony disc of the violin concertos which also includes the Britten concerto. An excellent bargain priced CD. There are more recent Symphony recordings I haven't heard. I have an older Dorati disc, and some EMI recordings. There is a sacred choral music disc on Naxos that I enjoy as well.


----------



## starthrower

I can't recommend this recording highly enough. The music is superb and so is the recording.


----------



## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> Where is the best place to start? I've heard a few of his Mazurkas and bits and pieces of some orchestral works.


Hi flamenco 
You already have so many new composers/new works on your plate.
I'd go to YT to ck out his vaious works. So far, like with Henze, I've not yet come across any duds/fluff so far.
1st off, ck out King Roger operatic work. 
can not say enough about that supreme masterpiece,,,I have 3 or 4 recordings, love them all.
His syms are OK/interesting, I would not say masterpieces like Shostakovich's 5,7,8,10th,4th. Not on that level so be prepared. Still hold interesting music. There is so much to explore in Szymanowski.

The way I came upon his songs for voice and piano, /Polish cd release 1990, , Ebay has a seller Declutter , they often list cds with only a pic, no detail info,,,,,,,descript says works for violin /piano,,I thought *wow, neat, great buy at under $5*,,,well turns out Declutter list it incorrectly, Its Songs for Voice and piano. 
UNREAL,,,a cd I might not order for quite some time, if ever. 
Now I have to go search out the cd for works violin/piano.

maybe starthrower's Brilliant recommend. I've noticed Brilliant releases are *OK/good* but not exceptional. 
Yet who knows , there may not be many choices avalible in Szy's violin/piano cds.
If the performaers are polish, I will like it the more.

anyway. I just got in like 6 cds from Declutter ebay, all for like under $35/free ship.
Niceeeeee.
What I do is find one cd I like from Declutter,,then I go to their store and type in *Szymanowski* and up pops a whole

list of bargain priced cds, niceeeeee.
I did the same with Henze , niceeee and also Schnittke, 
Declutter is my best kept secret in

finding gems, and at bargain prices. 
One very ferequent comment you will notice on amazon/YT is
*WOW, never knew Szymanowski had such fantastic music,,,how did he remain so obscure all these years*,,,,*neglected*,,,,*forgotten*…*wow why did I wait so long to make this discovery*….*major composer*….and such.
Where others are fascinated and moved by Mahler and Bruckner, I find for me, Szymanowski fulfills all my late romanticism needs/desires.


----------



## paulbest

starthrower said:


> I can't recommend this recording highly enough. The music is superb and so is the recording.


I'll put this on order.
If this is the same Schoenberg SQ menbers , which recorded the complete Schoenberg quartets, it will be exceptional. I have this SCHOENBERG Chandos set on wish list for some time,,,prices stay high, no one is selling off.
But is it a high price? No, when a performance is at their quality, top $ is reasonable.

ahh I just noticed,,,one reason I held off ordering this cd, was for the Janacek,,i had like 4 recprds of Janacek's SQ's and gave them away,,I don't care for anything Janacek,,,In my Janacek phase, I had like 10 cds + 3 operas,,,,now I have no interest what so ever
None.
Its minimal music. 
I need substance. 
Doubt I will order the cd...I don't buy 1/2 a cd.


----------



## paulbest

Start here.
This record may be the finest King Roger in print.
I just noted my YT comment from months ago, 
*may be*,,,I've not made a final critique as yet,,buty I can tell you, just about every recording is well worth the purchase price. There are no duds in this masterpiece.


----------



## starthrower

There are other chamber music recordings on Hyperion, and the Genuin label. Here's a review of the Brilliant 2 disc set. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1826628

Yes, it's the same Schoenberg Quartet. There's only one. They've recorded Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Zemlinsky, and the disc pictured above.

I don't know what to recommend for solo piano but the Sinae Lee set gets good reviews.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=148900


----------



## paulbest

I take back that lousey comment *its not Shostakovich*,,,well obviously
Its not. 
Neither is szymanowski to be comopared with Bruckner, Mahler, nor anyone.
Szymaonwski
Is
Szymanowski

and like no other

Unique, 
Original

mesmerizing 
fascinating.

Dreamy yet of the soil.

Szymanowski 
IS 
Szymanowski

I'll be working on research forb rare, unique cds in szy over the course of this week. 
I;'ve found some gems,,,looking for more.

I'm nearlya completist in Szymanowski,,,looking for 2 , maybea 3rd copy, of each work. 
Like Joshquin 33 has done with Sibelius VC;s. ,,well not that far.


----------



## paulbest

In my research on ebay,,,I've noted how much szy's music is joined up with other composers,,,,none who I am interested in,,No I don't care for Lutoslawski. 


I am very hesitant to place on wish list,,as I know, based on yrs of experiences, I will be disappointed,,,usually mixed composers, turns out *average performance*,,,Hillary Hahn is the exception.


----------



## flamencosketches

Re: Decluttr, I buy from them all the time. They are local to me, and while they don't have a physical storefront, orders from there get to my house overnight  great seller.

As for the opera King Roger, I am going to hold off on that one. I find it's hard for me to get into a composer's operas before I've heard much else of their works (for this reason I find it difficult to get into strictly operatic composers). I'm sure it is great, but I'm going to save it for later. So I'll work thru these video suggestions and then maybe check out the string quartets CD that starthrower linked. 

Re: already having "so many new composers/new works on your plate." That is an astute observation! I definitely am all over the map with music, but being a newbie to classical music I am voracious and tend to seek as much exposure to new things as I can get. Perhaps to my own detriment sometimes (and certainly to the detriment of my bank account). But I must say, Paul, reading your posts of extremely high praise for composers I'm unfamiliar with doesn't help!  Always getting me interested in stuff I'd never thought much about before.


----------



## starthrower

I do slightly prefer the Szymanowski quartets to the Janacek, but I don't believe Janacek is shallow as Paul implies. Anyway that Chandos CD is one of my top quartet CDs, and I have quite a few.


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> Come on folks awaken from your romanticized sleep,
> Mahler?
> Bruckner?
> 
> Once you hear Szymanowski. you'll never go back in those 2 , countless other romantics, like Sibelius, Chopin, all these and many more will fall from the heavens.


Oh, come on! Mahler and Bruckner are like cheese and crackers! Szymanowski is just as Romantic, just a little more harmonically gnarly; that's why you call him "modern." I guess he's beluga caviar.


----------



## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> Re: Decluttr, I buy from them all the time.
> 
> Re: already having "so many new composers/new works on your plate." That is an astute observation! I definitely am all over the map with music, but being a newbie to classical music I am voracious and tend to seek as much exposure to new things as I can get. Perhaps to my own detriment sometimes (and certainly to the detriment of my bank account). But I must say, Paul, reading your posts of extremely high praise for composers I'm unfamiliar with doesn't help!  Always getting me interested in stuff I'd never thought much about before.


Declutter is a major source of many recent purchases ,,,my buying /new discovery days are near (in fact are) over.

Unlike everyone else here on TC, who can boast of 30-100 favorite composers in their collection....My 300+ cd collection has no more than 20 composers represented.
NOT MORE THAN 
might be actually only 15 composers.

So when I share about a composer, I go all out with the praises.

As time goes by, you will gather some composers closer to you, and others will lose their once held brilliance.

I might ck out, yet once again, Pendereski, Maybe, can't promise anything. 
There 's hardly a stone in modernism, which I have not turned. I think have covered all the majors.

Hold on King Roger. save the best for last, nice decision.


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> Oh, come on! Mahler and Bruckner are like cheese and crackers! Szymanowski is just as Romantic, just a little more harmonically gnarly; that's why you call him "modern." I guess he's beluga caviar.


Great post. 
Yes there is some depths and unusual sounds in Szymanowski which fascinates me. 
He is like Ravel, *unusual textures*


----------



## Larkenfield

Where Szymanowsky fits into the history of Polish music: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20060614123940/http://www.usc.edu/dept/polish_music/essays/briehist.html

Well worth hearing his Third Symphony.


----------



## paulbest

Szymanowski,,,late romanticism...???
I mean I guess, if you say so,,,if the music wears the clothese,,why not .
tag as you wish...
early modernism...I guess, if you wish, go right ahead, tag as you find suits your fancy.


whatever makes you happy and ,,,with the right tags, now we can define Szymanowski and satisfy out musicologist desires. 
By tagging, we feel we are intelligent and have corralled the music's substance intoa logical category. 
We have now made a status of his music,,,
Yet have we really said anything, truly about his music, in its essence? 
Its shape, textures, nuances all escape these boxes of categories. 


At the end of the day, Szymanowski remains
Szymanowski,
unrefined, 
undefined,
unequivocal.(? what?), 
,,unified, ,
may I even say. Universal...(?What?)


EDIT: post script
Just got in like 10 Szymanowski cds,,,
(Unreal)


----------



## paulbest

Unequivocal 
means unmistakable
Indubitable 

I find that a funny pronunciation. 
Try to have a foreigner say that word,,,,10 times ,,,FAST,,,lol.


But its a fine descript here,in this case.
Indubious
that is
without doubt,
bonifide, 
*the real deal*
You can bank on it.../.
can't be duplicated nor copied.
Original and 
unique,
Authentic.
Substance
no fluff.
no fillers


----------



## millionrainbows

Show me the ONE Szymanowski disc I should get, and I'll get it & decide if I should go further in.


----------



## NLAdriaan

millionrainbows said:


> Show me the ONE Szymanowski disc I should get, and I'll get it & decide if I should go further in.


It's a 4cd box, but I started with this, as it is a bargain and Rattle is a strong advocate in this music.


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> Show me the ONE Szymanowski disc I should get, and I'll get it & decide if I should go further in.


No I would not go Rattle. Honestly, truthfully, do you want my opinion. 
Don't purchase any. No
1st go to YT, and surf the many uploads. After say a year of familiarizing yourself with some of his music, then decide, But NOT before. 
You see if there is/was, any composer which is 
*a acquired taste*
It is 
Szymanowski

Was I ready to hear his music, 12 months ago, 2 yrs ago, 4 months ago ,,well actually it was like 4 months ago that I had
The Awakening, The Revelation.

Your inner ear, may not be attuned as mine is , at this point in my life, to actually hear Szymanowski.

Strange phenomenon I know, Sounds weird, I realize.

But how else can I explain this experience.
As I say, you may only hear Szymanowski as , nothing more than *Ok late romanticism*,,or *good early modernism*. 
*minor composer*,,etc etc.
But the few , like myself, who have awakened to Szymanowski, we are all like 
*why the hiddenness , the flying under the radar of Szymanowski*. 
Is his music as great as Bruckner , Mahler, Shostakovich??
Perhaps not. 
But there is some essence, something glimmerings in his sounds which attract and delight us, The Szymanowskians, to the point we must hear all his works. 
Which makes it difficult to pin point , just One work, where we can say,,*listen to this Szymanowski*.

As much as I try, I can not come around to Bruckner and Mahler, I understand both are exceptionall composers, great music indeed, no denying.

same with Szymanowski, it is a acquired taste.

Something inside the listener, has to be there from the beginning. 
You just can not put on a Szymanowski cd and force the acceptance,,some connection has to be sine qua non.


----------



## Mandryka

A thing by Szymanowsky I like is the 12 Etudes op 33 for piano, have a recording by Jakob Gimpel which I took from YouTube years ago of just a few of them

I’d be very interested to know of good recordings of these Etudes, and even more interested to know if Szymanowzky wrote music in a similar style.


----------



## paulbest

Wish I could be of help, In records of the Etudes /other solo paino works..
I have the Roscoe/Naxos arrived this week.
maybe YT has uploads of the solo piano you are interested in
What your post did bring me, is a new addition to my ever expanding Szymanowski collection,.

w/o your post, piqued my interest in piano works and I came across this 2 cd set,w hich I ordered today.
Thanks a lot

Read the long amazon review

https://www.amazon.com/Szymanowski-...eway&sprefix=szymanowski+piano,aps,152&sr=8-7


----------



## paulbest

Correction, not 2 cd set,,,add another, 
= Three CD's. 
WOW, that's a lot of szymanowski,
Maybe its what you are looking for


,,,and then some....


----------



## NLAdriaan

> The 'one-stop box'





> Sir Simon Rattle's CBSO recordings have been gathered together in an unmissable EMI collection that contains all Szymanowski's key works with orchestra. Notable are the two violin concertos in Thomas Zehetmair's Gramophone Award-winning performances, Leif Ove Andsnes in the Fourth Symphony, the opera King Roger and various versions of the song-cycles (usually with Polish singers). Rattle's passion for this music shines through every bar, and if you're new to this composer, you simply can't do better. (The two violin concertos and Symphony No 4 are, incidentally, also available as a separate issue, if you're hesitating about taking such a major immersion in the Szymanowski sound world.)


According to Gramophone


----------



## Mandryka

paulbest said:


> Wish I could be of help, In records of the Etudes /other solo paino works..
> I have the Roscoe/Naxos arrived this week.
> maybe YT has uploads of the solo piano you are interested in
> What your post did bring me, is a new addition to my ever expanding Szymanowski collection,.
> 
> w/o your post, piqued my interest in piano works and I came across this 2 cd set,w hich I ordered today.
> Thanks a lot
> 
> Read the long amazon review
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Szymanowski-...eway&sprefix=szymanowski+piano,aps,152&sr=8-7


If you want the recording of Jakob Gimpel playing the op 33 etudes then I can upload it for you -- it's much much better than any other recording I've heard, though having said that I just found this on youtube and it's pretty good, just rubbish sound. *Millionrainbows*, have a listen if you can tolerate the sound, you may be surprised how distinctive the voice of the music is






I'm much less interested in the Chopin/Scriabin sounding music, despite its obvious beauty. There is a sort of "classic" of one of those pieces because the pianist Van Cliburn, who has a sort of cult status, used to play one as an encore all the time -- here






but this one is IMO even better






The second and third piano sonatas could be worth exploring, I'll try to find time to investigate tomorrow.


----------



## paulbest

Hi
I do not havea MP 3, for uploads. 
I havea tube CD player...I found it here,,,,but for 15 minutes of Szymanowski,,I doubt I will order, sounds like it must bea terrific perfroramnce,,,one day I may find it low priced on amazon.

Has Chopin, which I am not interested in,.

http://www.norpete.com/p1167.html


----------



## Mandryka

I've started to listen to the third piano sonata here, by Piotr Anderszewsky, it's not bad music at all, and Anderszewsky gives it its own face, with some interesting and surprising transitions. It's inspired me to spend some more time with the music he was writing around this time -- the third sonata is op 36 so I'm assuming it comes from the same period is Szymanowski's life as the op 33 etudes I enjoy.









Before that I started to listen to Roland Pöntinen in the same sonata, but IMO he made it sound rather like late Scriabin and I didn't feel I was engaging with anything special, so I'll steer a wide berth.


----------



## Mandryka

paulbest said:


> Hi
> 
> http://www.norpete.com/p1167.html


Thanks.

I would buy it without hesitation except that the cost of shipping it to the UK is prohibitive.


----------



## millionrainbows

@Mandryka, I just ordered the Anderszewki. I think chamber & piano music is the best way to understand where a composer is coming from.


----------



## paulbest

I only know *bits N pieces* of Pontinen 's playing ,,and tiny snippets in my researches of other piano music, past 15 years, and Anderszewski, never made my wish list.

I like your *will steer wide and clear* in reference to Pontinen.

I'm looking for authentic records. 
With szymanowski, special talents are everything for me, as the music can not have any ~~idiosyncrasies~~ as they term the word.

This is onlya pub performance, but we can at least get a semblance of Anderszewsky's playing. 
I prefer the violinist 's talents in this piece


----------



## paulbest

Does this sound a bit too ~~Scriabinesque~~ to you guys...or is it just me?

I'd love someone posting a YT upload of Naxos release with Roscoe, which I have arriving any day now, vols 1,2,4.
This is from 2008

I do have the Tiberghien in the Mythes/Hyperion, but have not listened as yet.


----------



## paulbest

I also have this cd, and am listening to Masques op34 now. 
Its definitely
Scriabinesque music,
No doubt.
I've tried Scriabin, and will have to takea closer listen to him today,.

In this cd, the pianist avoids overly Scriabin-ishness.
That is he streers clear of making it too obvious, and allows Szymanowski's unique, individual voice to become separate from Scriabin's influences.

Can't explain the emotions Szymanowski's music ~~evokes~~ in me, I find his music,,~~magical~~~

https://www.amazon.com/Szymanowski-...+piano+works&qid=1561044743&s=gateway&sr=8-13


----------



## paulbest

OK, looks like I'll be getting into ~~Scriabin's ~~late sonatas~~~.
He had early period, middle, and late,,,I prefer his later, more experimental sonatas.
His mid period is ~~still~~ too much ~~romanticism~~,,yeah I know, you are like ~??whaaa??~. 
I have this thing about romantic styled works.
.
Whereas if you read wiki's notes, there is a quote of Scriabin, where he says, ,,well things beyond my very limited ~nil~ musical idiom understanding,,,but in essense, he says ~~I am about to break new ground~~, and he does, and its spectacular. 
Read the YT comments on
Sofronitsky 's performance of the 8th. Seems he is a ~~Legend~~ in Scriabin.

That cd will be on order today, my 1st Scriabin cd.

back to Szymanowski….,,and to Ravel,,,how could either composer,,,resist the influences of late Scriabin?

So born of 
Chopin
Scriabin

of Scriabin

Szymanowski and
Ravel


----------



## paulbest

read King Bonehead's comments from Sept 17, 2017...seems I may hold on purchasing this cd set

https://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Sc...teway&sprefix=scriabin+sofroni,aps,169&sr=8-1


----------



## Mandryka

Here are some good things in my collection

Kagan and Richter playing Mythes
Wanda Wilkomirska playing the op 35 violin concerto ; Szeryng in the second violin concerto
Rubinstein playing some mazurkas


I’d quite like to get to know the quartets better some time. I’ve seen King Roger and it was a good night, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing it again.

I’m not sure what the real world connection is between Scriabin and Szymanowsky, though their clearly is one. I bet there is to Rachmaninov too. And I bet Brahms was a big influence.


----------



## Mandryka

paulbest said:


> read King Bonehead's comments from Sept 17, 2017...seems I may hold on purchasing this cd set
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Sc...teway&sprefix=scriabin+sofroni,aps,169&sr=8-1


I think that the Sofronitsky Scriabin is well worth hearing, whatever the accuracy issues, he was related by marriage to Scriabin and maybe (I'm not sure) discussed the music with him.


----------



## flamencosketches

@Paul, Sofronitsky is the absolute greatest Scriabin interpreter of all time. Don't let one man's uninformed Amazon review put you off. Take my word on it!


----------



## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> @Paul, Sofronitsky is the absolute greatest Scriabin interpreter of all time. Don't let one man's uninformed Amazon review put you off. Take my word on it!


No, it only took a few seconds of playing to note the quality of performance,,,,asa historic buff, and with a name emding .*sky*,,and Russian....its a easy order.
I prefer the *old sound* in romantics, as long as the perfroramnce has that same *old world* playing.
Sofronitysky displays both charms.

I ordered the French label Chat Du Monde/Meloydia release.

Double cd set. 
has the 1958 sonata #8.

My 1st romantic cd purchased in ages. I recall Scriabin 's name was often mentioned on CM chat sites, but seems I only heard bits of his early/mid works. 
It is his later sonatas which I find exceptional, and different from his earlier works.


----------



## flamencosketches

Nice! Scriabin may be called a Romantic, and he is. But his music has absolutely nothing in common with his contemporaries. The composer he has the strongest ties to is Chopin, but after a certain point in his career he developed a strongly individual influence to where his music truly sounded like no other. I think you'll see what I'm talking about when you get around to the late sonatas.

Don't get me wrong, the early stuff is really great too! I just think with your background it may be a better idea to start near the end and work backward.


----------



## flamencosketches

Picked this up for a couple bucks. Enjoying the 3rd symphony so far, and it's not what I expected. Actually quite beautiful, and I'll be returning to this certainly. I'm also excited to hear the Symphonie Concertante that is also on this CD.

I would describe this music as both late Romantic and early Modern, a title unto which I would also bestow the slightly older Schoenberg; the two, of course, are radically, wildly different, and it would be just stupid to compare them in any way. But they are both very of their time.

Very nocturnal, beautiful music. I would like to thank Paul Best, once again, for his proselytization of a composer I'd previously had little interest in, for provoking me to check it out. I also want to check out his piano music, looks like there are several volumes on Naxos.


----------



## paulbest

andruini said:


> Will do!!
> I'm not believing this stuff.. I'm liking it waaay more than I expected to..


Hi Flamenco
Here is a response that I've come across so often when folks first make discovery of Szymanowski

*wayyy more than I EXPECTED to * ….For a *minor composer*, Szymanowski sure carries a catalogue of powerful masterpieces,,,if one only can lay down any presumptions, before the Cd begins.

I can see a Szymanowski gaining in notoriety , acceptance and a lot of new fans. 
His star is rising and there is no end in sight how high and bright his star will shine in the firmament ..Its the New Renaissance I've been referring to in recent posts.

Szymanowski will be a major player in this New Renaissance of Classical Music. 
One day his music will become more popular than Beethoven;s is today.


----------



## flamencosketches

kiyatsiya said:


> Welcome to the forum, glad you could join us.
> 
> I don't know this composer, so I must try his music.


The post you're responding to is over 10 years old.


----------



## millionrainbows

I just received my Szymanowski CD through the mail, and I'm listening to it right now. Piotr Anderszewski playing the Sonata No. 3 op. 36, Masques op. 34, and Métopes op. 29. I like it; it reminds me of Charles Ives. It's still tone-centric, though, and goes through various 'chord changes' so to speak, where the central tone changes to another center. If anything, it lacks rhythm; this is Scriabin-like and dreamy. All in all, I like it, although it is really not as 'modern' as other listeners here are saying, because of the tone-centric tendencies. Still, it's hairier than Scriabin, and more structured and approachable than Ives.

If you like dissonance, dissonance that makes sense harmonically, then this is for you.


----------



## paulbest

Great comments, *Scriabin like and dreamy*, Indeed!
Sure Szymanowski partakes more of the old romantic world sound, no doubt. 
But even us modernists can appreciate piano music which evokes this *other worldly/dream like state*,
Notice how the notes just fall so listlessly, so lost to time and place. The hussle and bustle of LA streets are exempt from this world, NYC is transcended when Szymanowski is on the CD player. 
Post modern world is defeated when Szymanowski 's magical sound world is flirting through the air waves.

For some reason, Chopin , as wonderful as his music is, just does not capture this ~~Transcendency~~ which allows us reprieve and rest from the cold lifeless world around us. 
Modernists are so stodgy as the romantics may have us imagined in their minds.

We are not against romanticism, per se, its only a outdated style which we feel provides less satisfaction and intrigue, , vs the modern styled romanticism, which blends the old with the new forms.


----------



## Mandryka

Is there a real, historical, connection to Scriabin? Did they know each other, with real influences? Or is there a third party involved?


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> Great comments, *Scriabin like and dreamy*, Indeed!
> Sure Szymanowski partakes more of the old romantic world sound, no doubt.
> But even us modernists can appreciate piano music which evokes this *other worldly/dream like state*,
> Notice how the notes just fall so listlessly, so lost to time and place. The hussle and bustle of LA streets are exempt from this world, NYC is transcended when Szymanowski is on the CD player.
> Post modern world is defeated when Szymanowski 's magical sound world is flirting through the air waves.
> 
> For some reason, Chopin , as wonderful as his music is, just does not capture this ~~Transcendency~~ which allows us reprieve and rest from the cold lifeless world around us.
> Modernists are so stodgy as the romantics may have us imagined in their minds.
> 
> We are not against romanticism, per se, its only a outdated style which we feel provides less satisfaction and intrigue, , vs the modern styled romanticism, which blends the old with the new forms.


I'm not biased against Chopin; I'm an omnivore. The tonal system is a beautiful system, and with Chopin's free-form excursions, you can hear how he both elevates and transcends tonality, "bending" it to his poetic musings. Without Chopin, I don't think I could really appreciate Scriabin or Szymanowski's modernistic explorations...I see it all as a beautifully connected, evolving or morphing tradition. 
Where else but in classical music can you hear such a continuity and flux? It is all necessary; nothing should be made to seem invalid or outdated.


----------



## flamencosketches

millionrainbows said:


> I'm not biased against Chopin; I'm an omnivore. The tonal system is a beautiful system, and with Chopin's free-form excursions, you can hear how he both elevates and transcends tonality, "bending" it to his poetic musings. Without Chopin, I don't think I could really appreciate Scriabin or Szymanowski's modernistic explorations...I see it all as a beautifully connected, evolving or morphing tradition.
> Where else but in classical music can you hear such a continuity and flux? It is all necessary; nothing should be made to seem invalid or outdated.


Couldn't agree more. I also see quite a direct line between Chopin and Szymanowski, makes me wish Chopin wrote symphonies.


----------



## millionrainbows

flamencosketches said:


> Couldn't agree more. I also see quite a direct line between Chopin and Szymanowski, makes me wish Chopin wrote symphonies.


The first thing my piano teacher put in front of me was the Chopin Prelude in E minor. He seemed to know that I would understand it, and he was right; I had no problem learning it. Then, it was on to Bach.


----------



## paulbest

I can understand this position of absorbing music from various strains in genre and epochs of tradition. 
Sure there is a direct influence of the great mastery of Chopin upon both Scriabin, Szy and also Rachmaninov.
Yet I have now, late in life become a minimalist of sorts. If it sounds like it can be replaced by something ~~superior/more intricate/and updated~~~ I feel it is time to move into a higher form. 
Read Scriabin's wiki page, fascinating life. 
Had some theosophy ideas and such. sadly he passed away too young, had more to develop. But it may have gone off in another direction, if he kept on this theosophical path,,to who knows where and what.
Another great loss to the musical community, was the promising career of his very gifted son, who died in a accident age 11.


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> I can understand this position of absorbing music from various strains in genre and epochs of tradition.
> Sure there is a direct influence of the great mastery of Chopin upon both Scriabin, Szy and also Rachmaninov.
> Yet I have now, late in life become a minimalist of sorts. If it sounds like it can be replaced by something ~~superior/more intricate/and updated~~~ I feel it is time to move into a higher form.


Wow, you are a man who likes to move on; that reminds me of Boulez. I admit, I do get on that same path periodically, where I must go to the more modern. I always come back, though.

That's the thing about Classical; it covers a huge spectrum of time, traditions, and forms. It makes modern genres like rock and jazz seem rather small by comparison.


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> Wow, you are a man who likes to move on; that reminds me of Boulez. I admit, I do get on that same path periodically, where I must go to the more modern. I always come back, though.
> 
> That's the thing about Classical; it covers a huge spectrum of time, traditions, and forms. It makes modern genres like rock and jazz seem rather small by comparison.


Oh yes, Jazz enthusiasts have a hard time holding on to interest of that form of music. I just don't *get* jazz. 
Classical is like the entire Himalayan mountain range, , jazz only plays around the foothills. POP culture,,, newest hit can be old news in a matter of months. 
CM is the deepest expression of the soul's yearnings for art.

Reference to Boulez..???
I have just received a Naxos release of his piano music..., I think I prefer his piano solo, vs his orchestral.


----------



## Larkenfield

...............


----------



## flamencosketches

millionrainbows said:


> The first thing my piano teacher put in front of me was the Chopin Prelude in E minor. He seemed to know that I would understand it, and he was right; I had no problem learning it. Then, it was on to Bach.


That was one of the first pieces I learned, along with Bach's C major prelude


----------



## paulbest

@ 
Larkenfield


Wish I had a ear for all the critque you mention. 
far out of my range. 

I am listening toa new cd arrived today. Szy's Preludes op1/1899-1900, and Sonata op21 1910
with Radoslaw Sobczak/ a 2017/2018 recording.

Sounds a lot like Chopinesque,,but as you say,,with his own unique individual voice. 
I looked for the Lisak ona recording, none,,,would have ordered it,,,Now with your assessment, I would have held back. 

I will have to listen more closely and see what is it this is more one form and less so the other.

Thanks for your imput. 
But you must admit, her playing/talents is quite exceptional.


----------



## paulbest

OK
Larkenfield, How do you hera this Rosce/Naxos release...This is the set I just bought off amazon..
Vols 1-4.

If you hear issues, please inform us..at least for my sake ,as I am on the outside of the deeper aspects of musical forms/styles.


----------



## paulbest

WOW the contrasts twix the 2 performances,,,,so far apart,. I am confident you will come back with Rosco as the clear interpreter of this piece.


Now I can hear what you are saying. The young lady has a different tempo required for a proper vocing of a classic Etude. 
She takes too many liberties, and disrupts the textures ofa classical Etude,,,thus making the piece sound more likea ,,what did you say,,like a Prelude. 
So a Prelude has one general range of tempo, and a Etude , yet another. 
Yes?


----------



## paulbest

OK, here we go
Cd review time
Prelude op1 
No7
Radoslaw Sobczar/2017/2018 release
Currently teaches piano at all the Illustrious piano schools in Poland






And Martin Roscoe
/Naxos set of the complete Szymanowski,
this Prelude vol, I do not have ,,as YET,,
but after this review, we will see,
I have vols 1,2,3.

starts at 10:57


----------



## paulbest

Just off the press 1st comment.


seems to my ears, that Roscoe is playing Szymanowski a bit, a tad too much in the spirit of~~~Chopin~~~, which is what we want to stay clear of...Seems to me, Sobszak, is aware of this ~~pitfall~~ and takes all precautions to allowm Szy's voice to come forth from this ~~Chopin-esque~~ piece. 


I prefer Sobczak at least in this one work. Others I have no time /skills to draw out further comparisons....save that for another day


----------



## Mandryka

paulbest said:


> OK, here we go
> Cd review time
> Prelude op1
> No7
> Radoslaw Sobczar/2017/2018 release
> Currently teaches piano at all the Illustrious piano schools in Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scriabin Left handed nocturne. Chopin op 45 prelude. Bits of Brahms.
Click to expand...


----------



## flamencosketches

Mandryka, I share your curiosity about a real world connection between Szymanowski and Scriabin. Szymanowski was about 10 years younger, and that he heard and was influenced by Scriabin's music seems undeniable. But I can't find much information regarding whether they had any correspondence, etc. 

One connection that comes to mind is that Artur Rubinstein knew both of them somewhat well.


----------



## joen_cph

Some info here, for instance
http://files.musicologytoday.hist.p...5-s26-38/Musicology_Today-r2008-t5-s26-38.pdf


----------



## flamencosketches

joen_cph said:


> Some info here, for instance
> http://files.musicologytoday.hist.p...5-s26-38/Musicology_Today-r2008-t5-s26-38.pdf


Excellent, thanks!


----------



## joen_cph

It does specify some contacts via the Neuhaus-family (famous pianists), and points to compositional influence especially in the early work, etc. 
Less biographical details, though.


----------



## paulbest

Quite a find,,,just skimmed through it,,,though these late romantic composers, ,,Szy,,,knew they were, at least early on,,,making some emulations of the greats from the past,,they~Scriabin~ still felt their early/mid works for solo piano, were,. at the very least, having some individuality and uniqueness to justify their continuation in composing.


Is it a possible scenario, I can *get* my Chopin via Scriabin and also with Szymanowski' s music? 
As I've never really felt a missing out on Chopin,,,but now in later life,,it would be nice to have some romantic piano, yet cast in new forms,,?


----------



## paulbest

Mandryka said:


> paulbest said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, here we go
> Cd review time
> Prelude op1
> No7
> Radoslaw Sobczar/2017/2018 release
> Currently teaches piano at all the Illustrious piano schools in Poland
> 
> Scriabin Left handed nocturne. Chopin op 45 prelude. Bits of Brahms.
> 
> 
> 
> Lacks some originality? Or has substantial individuality?
> I don;'t minda composers~~borrowing~~ but has to given back with some ~~Interest~.
> Does Szymanowski pay back the loan with interest, is what I am asking... ??
Click to expand...


----------



## paulbest

This is the cliché response I am seeing all over at amazon anf YT comments.
The same recation I had, upon this ~~major discovery~~ oh about some 4 months ago. 
I hada Oistrakh LP with Szymanowski paired with a another work, purcashed for the other work only, and so paid not much attention to the Szymanowski,,but recall it was a *interesting work*, At that time I was not ona mission for new discoveries,,,that period in my life was to come decades later.

As I mentioned earlier,,,new commers to the sound of Szymanowski will not find a orchestration as big and powerful as say in their favorite composers, Bruckner and Mahler. 
Szymanowski is not on that , so to say, high level. 
Yet in spite of this slightly step down from large orchestrations in the tradition of Beethoven/Brahms, , the payback here is the ~~unique, quite different~~ may I say,,,~magical~,,if not ~mystical at times,,,sound of this seldom mentioned composer.

This is the rewards offered in this Polish master of varied genres and textures of early 20th C, composition, a era which I title

~~The Explosive Early 20TH C Epoch

A time never will repeat itself...
Well
Szymanowski is part of this ~~The New Music Era~~
Sure we can hear *borrowings/~ lets say at times ~heavy influences~ from 2 or 3 other majors before him. 
Yet the pay back, with ~~Interest~ is evident.

The Unique Voice,,, sounds through.

As I dug deep 4-6 months ago for ~~New Gold~~ veins,,I haded across Szymanowski,,and thought at the instant,,,*this may possible bea major discovery,,,not sure, have to explore further*..

Went straight to his opera King Roger,,,and ~~mother Load of Gold~,,,,off to search for all available,,have like 4 maybe 5 records of this powerful score.

Glad to know others hear what has ,,,perhaps for too long, has been ~~over looked~~.


----------



## Janspe

In an act of perhaps needless stylistic contrast, I jumped from Britten's _The Rape of Lucretia_ into Szymanowski's _Król Roger_. It seems I'm feeling rather operatic today! In any case, I'm simply _stunned_ by the music so far; the score is absolutely wonderfully orchestrated and the atmosphere of the work is fascinating and mysterious.

I'm not terribly familiar with Szymanowski's work: the first _Violin Concerto_ is of course quite a popular piece, and I love it very much, but apart from that there's not that much that I've heard. One of my local orchestras played _Des Hafis Liebeslieder_ a few years ago but the performance wasn't that good in my opinion, the balance between the singer and the orchestra was all messed up. Maybe I was seated in a bad spot for vocal music that night, who knows...

Be that as it may, I'm very much excited about this opera, and perhaps it'll lead into more intense exploration of Szymanowski's output.

PS. I was _just_ about to click the submit reply button as I remembered an additional work I'm familiar with: the popular _Mity_ for piano and violin! It's a great piece.


----------



## flamencosketches

Check out Szymanowski's 3rd symphony, "Song of the Night". Great orchestration, great vocal writing, I think. I still have yet to check out Kròl Roger (his only opera...?).


----------



## starthrower

Song Of The Night is a beauty! I have the Dorati, and Semkow versions. I picked up King Roger on Naxos for under a dollar. It's an excellent modern opera score.


----------



## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Song Of The Night is a beauty! I have the Dorati, and Semkow versions. I picked up King Roger on Naxos for under a dollar. It's an excellent modern opera score.


Link? I want a full opera for <$1


----------



## starthrower

Several here for a couple bucks.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1563312770&sr=1-3


----------



## paulbest

The other day i received a damaged cd of Naxos release of Szymanowski's Vol 4 piano solo, Has very early work Nine Preludes op1, which i am listening to now, written late 1890's, when he was in his teens. 
I really, like this music,,as i've stated often on this thread. I thought maybe it was just a passing fling with this *Chopinesque* solo piano,,,but deep down I felt it was more than a *fling*,,and now the cd arrived, which completes the 4 vol set by pianist martin Roscoe/recorded in the UK, April 2003.

Whats odd, is that i am a strict modernist, i never did come around Chopin. 
Now why is it, this is so Chopinesque , why can I not come around to Chopin? 
This is the Q you ask me. 
I can not give an answer,,maybe Millionrainbows can help figure out this puzzlement. 
I mean some might say, *Szymanowski is nothing more than <Chopin-Lite>*
And i have this hangup against the romantic spirit, which i can not get over. Its beyond therapy. 
Yet here with Szymanowski , its all romantic, yet I love it. 
No I can not explain it, not even if i tried. 
Its something i will never figure out and will leave it at that. 
man this is ,,just so good,,no read as <Great> 
Millionrainbows might have something he knows about these Preludes, Some of these Preludes Szymanowski wrote when he was 14 years old. 
Moving into Op3, variations,,yet again, , yep, LOVE , is all I can say,,,I should not fail to mention Martin Roscoe in performance. 
These recordings of Roscoe, might be ,,can i say it,,?definitive?. 
I want to revisit Grieg as well,,been some years, as I recall there were melodies such as this in Grieg.


----------



## flamencosketches

I have one of Martin Roscoe's Szymanowski CDs too, volume 2. Got it for dirt cheap, maybe something like $2 as an Amazon prime "add on item". Certainly well worth what I spent and more, but I still have yet to really get into the Mazurkas. I'm listening to the C major Fantasy op.14 now and it's excellent. Szymanowski was definitely more than a Chopin-worshipper and had something of his own style, but his piano music is indeed deeply Romantic.

Couldn't find Roscoe, but here goes. It's a great piece if you haven't heard it:


----------



## paulbest

You see with Szymanowski I will need a pianist which brings out the colors and harmonic/textures which i so adore about his muisc. 
Fine pianist above. 
Everyone will have their own fav in Szymanowski's music.

Here is Martin Roscoe's performance.






What i am discovering about Szymanowski, is that, contrary to Sergi Rachmaninov's quip he made to a friend one day, that Szymanowski **music is ____**...I am finding the opposite of Rachmaninov's opinion, perhaps not serious, but who knows,,,, 
is that Szymanowski's works are golden.


----------



## paulbest

its a crying shame Martin Roscoe's Szymanowski Naxos cds for that low,,,,,,goes to show how this society has no sense of true value ,


----------



## Rach Man

I just picked up this 2-CD set at a local second-hand store. I have really enjoyed Harnasie.









I have a question. In Harnasie, are they singing in Polish? Is all of his choral music sung in Polish?

Thanks.


----------



## starthrower

^^^
I've owned that set for several years. It was my first exposure to Szymanowski. I believe some of his sacred choral works are sung in Latin and Polish.


----------

