# Where to begin?



## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Hi

I am mainly an ancient/religious music enthusiast. But listening radio while communting I have recently discovered that opera can also warm my emotions in a way never before have experienced.
I have absolutely no idea and so I am looking for advice on opera DVD's to initiate myself.
Think that italian opera would be a good way to begin. Am I correct? Any advice?
Looking for DVD's beacuse I think that visual is of great importance in opera and I have good home hifi to experience it.

Thanks a lot
Vicente Vida


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Vicente said:


> Hi
> 
> I am mainly an ancient/religious music enthusiast. But listening radio while communting I have recently discovered that opera can also warm my emotions in a way never before have experienced.
> I have absolutely no idea and so I am looking for advice on opera DVD's to initiate myself.
> ...


Hello Vincente.
Your fellow member from Spain is doing this,
https://www.talkclassical.com/63696-nos-1-20-2020-a.html?highlight=

Start reading that, and try following up.


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Thanks a lot.
So, I Will begin with Boulez Ring. Eager to watch it.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Vicente said:


> Thanks a lot.
> So, I Will begin with Boulez Ring. Eager to watch it.


If you wish,yes, but lots of Italian operas also on the list, little easier on the ear.


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Rogerx said:


> If you wish,yes, but lots of Italian operas also on the list, little easier on the ear.


That's what I stated in my first post.
As economist I am little bit square mimded, so I thought it was a good idea to begin with #1.
Karajan's Madame Butterfly will be a good place to begin with.
Thanks a lot.
Vicente Vida


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

You stated you enjoy religious so perhaps you should consider these DVD's :
1. Poulenc - _Dialogues des Carmelites_ with Patricia Racette
2. Puccini - _Madama Butterfly_ with Renata Scotto
3. Verdi - _Aida_ with Leontyne Price
4. Puccini - _Tosca_ with Magda Olivero
5. Halevy - _La Juive _with Neil Shicoff


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> You stated you enjoy religious so perhaps you should consider these DVD's :
> 1. Poulenc - _Dialogues des Carmelites_ with Patricia Racette
> 2. Puccini - _Madama Butterfly_ with Renata Scotto
> 3. Verdi - _Aida_ with Leontyne Price
> ...


Thanks a lot. Will begin with Madama Butterfly. 
Scotto version has been released in DVD?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

So sorry. I got too excited about the CD. But I have seen the Met Racette DVD which was also quite fine.


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

For_ Butterfly_, the older Karajan DVD with Freni and Domingo can't be beat.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

This is a tough question to answer. I started to explore opera with Verdi and Puccini. I liked their works ok, but it wasn't until I heard _Le nozze di Figaro_ that I went completely nuts for opera. That led to other Mozart operas, which led to other composers, which led back to Puccini and Verdi, which I fell in love with. Mozart turned opera from a mild interest to a full blown passion, and through him I learned to appreciate and fall in love with so many other composers and works. I fell in love with Puccini and Verdi through Mozart. I fell in love with everything through him.

You should probably explore different languages and different periods. I would explore the following:

_Madama Butterly_ - great romantic period opera (I'd recommend Karajan's with Pavarotti and Freni), Italian. 
_Le nozze di Figaro_ - classical period opera, and perhaps the greatest opera ever written (I'd recommend Rene Jacobs recording), Italian.
_Carmen_ - Just full of fun music (I'd recommend the Callas recording, as you should experience her. She is the greatest their ever was), French.
_Boris Godunov_ - One of my most favorite works. Grand opera at its grandest (I'd recommend Gergiev's recording), Russian.
_Die Zauberflöte_ - Another Mozart hit (I'd recommend the first Solti recording with Christina Deutekom) German.
_Artaserse_ - Leonardo Vinci's great baroque period masterpiece and it's a counter-tenor feast (the Diego Fasolis recording with the five countertenors is a revelation), Italian.

I think these are a good start. All are masterpieces and all will give you a taste of the different periods (baroque, classical, romantic) as well as different languages (french, german, italian and russian).

We can all state recommendations up and down but you are going to like what you like and not like what you don't like. Had I discovered Mozart before Verdi and Puccini, my passion would have been ignited 5 years earlier than it was.

I know these aren't DVDs, but wanted to share my perspective.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Vicente said:


> Thanks a lot.
> So, I Will begin with Boulez Ring. Eager to watch it.


I LOVE LOVE LOVE The Ring. It is one of my most favorite works. I am completely and totally obsessed with it. I have over 30 recordings of it on CD and DVD. But, I would not advise starting with The Ring. It's way too big of a pill to swallow. It took me years to fully appreciate it. Years.


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## Vicente (Aug 5, 2015)

Very many thanks. I Will take into account your recommendations. 
Already have begun with Madama Butterfly ans really enjoying it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gellio said:


> I LOVE LOVE LOVE The Ring. It is one of my most favorite works. I am completely and totally obsessed with it. I have over 30 recordings of it on CD and DVD. But, I would not advise starting with The Ring. It's way too big of a pill to swallow. It took me years to fully appreciate it. Years.


There's absolutely no predicting what will light the opera fire in an individual. I would never advise against beginning with any particular composer or work. I enjoyed a variety of operas as a young person, but the ones that gripped me most were the _Ring, Tristan_ and _Parsifal._ By contrast, I quickly lost interest in some of the "easy" popular favorites such as _Carmen, La_ _Boheme_ and_ Aida,_ and Mozart, except for _Die Zauberflote_, did nothing for me at all.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> There's absolutely no predicting what will light the opera fire in an individual. I would never advise against beginning with any particular composer or work. I enjoyed a variety of operas as a young person, but the ones that gripped me most were the _Ring, Tristan_ and _Parsifal._ By contrast, I quickly lost interest in some of the "easy" popular favorites such as _Carmen, La_ _Boheme_ and_ Aida,_ and Mozart, except for _Die Zauberflote_, did nothing for me at all.


That's fair enough, but the Ring is a massive undertaking. I was overwhelmed by it when I started getting into it, and as I said, it took me years to fully appreciate it, but you are right.

The Ring journey was interesting for me, because the first thing I went searching for was The Ride of the Valkyries, then I listened to the beginning and end of each of the four, then I started with Siegfried (oddly), then Rheingold, then Gotterdammerung, then Walkure. Talk about all over the place. Siegfried still my favorite of the 4 Ring operas. It took a long time before I could listen from the opening note of Rheingold to the closing bars of Gotterdammerung. It's just so awe-inspiring.

Anyway, this is an exciting journey to begin for anyone.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I personally started opera with Verdi's Rigoletto conducted by Solti. 

It is not subtle but it is tremendously exciting and well sung. Excellent introduction to opera. At around the same time I had the good fortune to acquire a side (one sided LP!) of Mozart's Figaro and also excerpts from Carmen. Carmen is of course one of those rarities - a complete masterpiece that everyone can enjoy! Don't let the fact that it is popular put you off - there his often a reason why certain operas are popular!
If you try Wagner I would suggest first a disc of highlights (as I did) because unless you are going to be a Wagner fan you are liable to be put off by the sheer longueurs of it all.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> If you try Wagner I would suggest first a disc of highlights (as I did) because unless you are going to be a Wagner fan you are liable to be put off by the sheer longueurs of it all.


Ummm... You don't have to listen to all four hours of _Parsifal_ wihout a break. It has 3 acts, you know. 

I'd say that it's Mozart, not Wagner, who benefits most from being excerpted; leave out the recitatives, and if you have a synopsis handy you won't miss anything essential. _Le Nozze di Figaro_ is at least as long as _Die Walkure,_ and if "longeurs" are the issue, some of us are bored senseless by recitative when we can't watch the action onstage. There are many fine, recitative-free recordings of highlights from Mozart operas that contain nearly all the best music, and I'd recommend the Klemperer music-only _Zauberflote_ as a fine way get to know that opera.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Good suggestions so far. A couple more ways would be to choose operas based on famous stories you already enjoy or to try compilations/recitals by famous singers.

A lot of myths like Orfeo and famous works such as those by Shakespeare have been turned into lots of operas: it can be fun to listen to how different composers have different styles. If you roughly know the story it might be less confusing.

In terms of famous singers, if you find a singer you like then compilations can be a good way of testing the water. The best singers are often versatile and say you like Pavarotti or Callas (for example) their compilations cover dozens of composers over hundreds of years so they can be good introductions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Good suggestions so far. A couple more ways would be to choose operas based on famous stories you already enjoy or to try compilations/recitals by famous singers.
> 
> A lot of myths like Orfeo and famous works such as those by Shakespeare have been turned into lots of operas: it can be fun to listen to how different composers have different styles. If you roughly know the story it might be less confusing.


I like this suggestion. The literary connection could be an excellent doorway into opera. There are operas based on Greek mytholgy, Norse mythology, Biblical stories, medieval romances, plays and novels from ancient Greece to the present day, and history both ancient and modern. One of the fascinations of opera is seeing how composers interpret these stories musically.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I personally started opera with Verdi's Rigoletto conducted by Solti.
> 
> It is not subtle but it is tremendously exciting and well sung. Excellent introduction to opera. At around the same time I had the good fortune to acquire a side (one sided LP!) of Mozart's Figaro and also excerpts from Carmen. Carmen is of course one of those rarities - a complete masterpiece that everyone can enjoy! Don't let the fact that it is popular put you off - there his often a reason why certain operas are popular!
> If you try Wagner I would suggest first a disc of highlights (as I did) because unless you are going to be a Wagner fan you are liable to be put off by the sheer longueurs of it all.


Well said on all accounts. Carmen is one of those rarities that everyone can enjoy. It's just full of good tunes. I haven't heard Solti's Rigoberto, but maybe I should give in a try, as that is one Verdi opera I'm not the biggest fan of.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Ummm... You don't have to listen to all four hours of _Parsifal_ wihout a break. It has 3 acts, you know.
> 
> I'd say that it's Mozart, not Wagner, who benefits most from being excerpted; leave out the recitatives, and if you have a synopsis handy you won't miss anything essential. _Le Nozze di Figaro_ is at least as long as _Die Walkure,_ and if "longeurs" are the issue, some of us are bored senseless by recitative when we can't watch the action onstage. There are many fine, recitative-free recordings of highlights from Mozart operas that contain nearly all the best music, and I'd recommend the Klemperer music-only _Zauberflote_ as a fine way get to know that opera.


I just delete the recitative and dialogue because you are right, it's boring and unnecessary when I'm just listening to the music. As a Mozart and Wagner lover, and I'm just going through my experience here, Mozart was absolute love and joy and first listen, and Wagner was torture. A torture well worth it, and I'm so grateful that I stuck it out, but by God it was a lot of work. Work well worth it, because I just adore Wagner now.

That's the thing, though, when someone's getting into opera who knows what they will like and what they won't. That's why I suggest exploring different periods and different languages.

I also wouldn't recommend a recording based on the lack of recitative or dialogue since it is easy nowadays to just remove it, since most of us listen to music digitally. I also don't generally like highlights because highlights are someone's opinion of what the highlights of a work are, and I don't necessarily agree with them.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The Magic Flute, Mozart
A semi religious / magical feel to it with wonderful tunes.


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