# Best and Worst Recordings: Klemperer



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

We are lucky to have such a plethora of good-sounding recordings of this conducting giant. I'll start with one which is sure to be controversial. Some love it and believe it makes the work come alive as never before. Some hate it due to it being maybe the slowest ever on record. I am firmly in the former camp. I never warmed up to the Mahler 7th until I heard the Klemperer recording. I am spellbound by it from beginning to end. Every bar means something. It's a shame that so many have litmus tests for how an interpretation should go. Just give a recording a chance and withhold judgment to the end. That's my philosophy.

The Best:


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2019)

I cannot agree enough about his live recording of Mahler's 2nd - amazing recording. You are missing a lot, though, including:







His Magic Flute, with Popp, is my all-time favorite, even though it is not complete (none of the speaking parts).


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

The Worst:

This famous recording has just never worked for me. Klemperer's biggest issue is inflexibility, and here it is the lack of flexibility and dynamism that makes the interpretation plod. I happen to like slower tempos in this work, as my choice of favorites like Mengelberg, Furtwangler, and Jochum will attest. But this recording just misfires IMO, though the quality of soloists provides interest.










This one lacks the requisite energy and direction necessary for this symphony IMO:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I consider the Klemperer Brahms Requiem his most overrated recording. Again, the problem for me is inflexibility. It just plods along. I rank both the 1947 Karajan and 1955 Kempe above Klemperer in this work.

But I rank Gardiner above all these, believe it or not for those who think I only listen to old recordings! Gardiner's is a supremely musical effort, above all for the magnificent contribution of the chorus. Every phrase is sung with the utmost care.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2019)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I consider the Klemperer Brahms Requiem his most overrated recording. Again, the problem for me is inflexibility. It just plods along. I rank both the 1947 Karajan and 1955 Kempe above Klemperer in this work.
> 
> But I rank Gardiner above all these, believe it or not for those who think I only listen to old recordings! Gardiner's is a supremely musical effort, above all for the magnificent contribution of the chorus. Every phrase is sung with the utmost care.


We'll have to agree to disagree here about Klemp's Requiem. I love it. But I also love Gardiner's (the Phillips recording, not the SDG one). It was my first recording of this work, and is one of my favorite of his recordings. Incidentally, I feel the same way about both his and Klemperer's recordings of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> The Worst:
> 
> This famous recording has just never worked for me. Klemperer's biggest issue is inflexibility, and here it is the lack of flexibility and dynamism that makes the interpretation plod. I happen to like slower tempos in this work, as my choice of favorites like Mengelberg, Furtwangler, and Jochum will attest. But this recording just misfires IMO, though the quality of soloists provides interest.


This one would be in my list of bests. Uniquely emotionally shattering experience. Furtwangler's is excellent--I love his dramatic approach--but it's extremely incomplete. Can you even have a St Matthew performance without "Mache dich, mein Herze, rein"?

I don't know that I have strong feelings about his worsts. Maybe his Fliegende Hollander, a recording closer to the bottom of my 30'ish recordings of the work than the top, despite all the wild critical praise.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Brahmsian, thanks for fulfilling my wish for this thread to exist  

I’m new to Klemperer, but I consider him a great artist and a talented interpreter. Some recordings I enjoy include his Mahler 2nd with Philharmonia (maybe the best recording of it I’ve ever heard, or second to the Lenny/NYPO); Brahms German Requiem (the first recording of any Brahms orchestral work that I’ve enjoyed); Mozart 40th symphony; Beethoven 5th (I really liked both 1955 and 1959 Philharmonia, though the latter is a little slow for my patience). I listened to some of his Bruckner 9th this morning and thought it was great.

I’ve ordered his Brahms box set on Warner/EMI and look forward to exploring further both Brahms and Klemperer. I really want his Mahler box set too but I’m taking a break from Mahler.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2019)

I wouldn't put Klemp's St. Matthew Passion at the top of my list - I like Herreweghe so much more. But I do enjoy it. I know it is plodding, and at first I was turned off by that. But just as I came to truly enjoy Celibidache's controversial Bruckner 4th, I came around to Klemp's Passion. In some ways, I find it gives added gravity to the seriousness and reverence of this piece. Not my favorite, but I'd never put it in a worst column.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

As usual a mixed bag....

The great:

Klemp's excellent Brahms symphony cycle and superb Resurrection.















The pits:

Not the 5th from this one....the joyless 7th and an equally grim Mahler 7.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

^
Thanks Merl, for demonstrating my point on the Mahler 7. :lol:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I wonder if admirers of Klemp's St Matthew have heard the Jochum? All the beauty and warmth, slow but not plodding


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2019)

I think, in general, Klemperer is very polarizing. There are those without strong feelings, to be sure, but most who have heard him either love him or hate him. Thus you can have one person love his Mahler 7th, while another hates it.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2019)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I wonder if admirers of Klemp's St Matthew have heard the Jochum? All the beauty and warmth, slow but not plodding


I'm open to them all. I don't need just one. For a time I was a die-hard HIP person, but threw that out the window long ago.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Klemperer is obviously held in great esteem. But he's one of those conductors that I was soured on by (what I consider) a bad recording - namely, his Beethoven 5th, the first movement of which has been immortalized on Voyager's golden record. Soooo turgid.






Anyway, this list is a welcome tonic to that initial negative impression.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

DrMike said:


> I think, in general, Klemperer is very polarizing. There are those without strong feelings, to be sure, but most who have heard him either love him or hate him. Thus you can have one person love his Mahler 7th, while another hates it.


As I said on another thread, it depends on the work. Mahler 7 is a mercurial work which thus benefits IMO from a mercurial interpretation. Thus you can have a case where I love Klemperer's tempo in this work but find him plodding in the Bach St Matthew and Brahms Requiem.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> ^
> Thanks Merl, for demonstrating my point on the Mahler 7. :lol:


I used to like it but i came back to it recently, after a long break, and I really couldnt understand why I initially liked it. It just felt wrong. Its a very polarising interpretation (but many of Klemperer's recordings are polarising). I like some Klemp but not others. In that respect he's no different than any other conductor to me. It's good we all have different views. What do you think of his Bruckner, BHS?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I wonder if admirers of Klemp's St Matthew have heard the Jochum? All the beauty and warmth, slow but not plodding


Haven't listened to it. I tend to find Jochum's recordings deeply mediocre, including his Mass in B Minor though. I also don't think "beauty and warmth" is primarily what I respond to in the Klemp, and what you hear as Klemperer's "plodding", I hear as the exact right tempi to perform the score with maximum impact.

But I'll give it a spin at some point.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

One that belongs in the best list is his Bruckner 6th. I would probably also add his Flying Dutchman to the list.

One for the worst (in a manner of speaking) is a Petrouchka. It was recorded very late in his career and the recording producer did not care for the results, so much so (apparently) that what he assembled from the takes convinced Klemperer to not permit its release. Much more recently others with access to the tapes realized that they could be assembled to produce a much better performance and that was released however my take [sic] on it is that even though I found it interesting, it isn't a consistent performance, it's a pastiche.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The best:

Das Lied von der Erde despite some eccentric tempi choices
Brahms requiem
Mozart Zauberflaute - anachronisticly slow but does have real magic and superb cast

To avoid is the simply impossibly slow St Matthew Passion which Bach would not have recognised. It's not bad in the sense of badly done but just completely out of style with what Bach would have expected, mistaking slowness for reverence.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

I am not much of a Klemperer fan. 'Das Lied' is my only exception, as it is really good, but the other Mahler recordings are too slow and outdated for my taste. And in the other repertoire, I have enough other favourites all over the place. Finally, I like my Bach HIP, so Klemperer is no option.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

NLAdriaan said:


> I am not much of a Klemperer fan. 'Das Lied' is my only exception, as it is really good,* but the other Mahler recordings are too slow *and outdated for my taste. And in the other repertoire, I have enough other favourites all over the place. Finally, I like my Bach HIP, so Klemperer is no option.


I find that difficult to agree with regarding the second Symphony - he is one of a very few conductors that consistantly produced performances coming in below 80 minutes.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

NLAdriaan said:


> I am not much of a Klemperer fan. 'Das Lied' is my only exception, as it is really good, *but the other Mahler recordings are too slow and outdated for my taste*. And in the other repertoire, I have enough other favourites all over the place. Finally, I like my Bach HIP, so Klemperer is no option.


FWIW his Mahler 2nd & 4th are faster than many of the frequently recommended recordings, and his 9th is about the middle of the pack.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

That Mahler 7th is weird. The three middle movements are fine, really. I can charitably call the first "atmospheric". but the finale is a dull, unexciting, boring listen. The orchestra plays fine throughout, and the sound was quite good for its time. But there just wasn't much life left in Otto.

But enough Klemperer bashing. He was also a composer, and if you're into post-war Austrian/German music and want to know more about Werner's father, this is worth your time:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Klemperer's Mahler 9th is one of the best out there, and in excellent sound


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

All Klemperer's Mahler recordings are my favourites. He also recorded my favourite Eine Kleine Nachtmusik on Testament, which is the only version I can get into still from overhearing the work. I'm a fan of his St. Matthew Passion. It can sound slow and heavy, but the sonorities me feel closer to God. Not a fan of his Beethoven.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

And then there is Klemperer's Shostakovich...






...and Gershwin...


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Merl said:


> What do you think of his Bruckner, BHS?


His 6th is superb as well as the live 4th I listed in my OP. In general his readings are good, but aside from Furtwangler who is supreme in Bruckner, I prefer Karajan, Jochum, and even Giulini, who are all a bit more dramatic and flexible. Horenstein also left behind some superb Bruckner.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Becca said:


> FWIW his Mahler 2nd & 4th are faster than many of the frequently recommended recordings, and his 9th is about the middle of the pack.





> I find that difficult to agree with regarding the second Symphony - he is one of a very few conductors that consistantly produced performances coming in below 80 minutes.


Sorry guys, you are right, I was wrong on the timing.

And actually, my point isn't about timing at all, as I am not looking for speed records in Mahler. I guess over time I got to prefer the more transparant and less dramatized Mahler, as there is so much in the music already, it doesn't need to be overdone. A matter of subtle changing taste:tiphat:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Phil loves classical said:


> All Klemperer's Mahler recordings are my favourites. He also recorded my favourite Eine Kleine Nachtmusik on Testament, which is the only version I can get into still from overhearing the work. I'm a fan of his St. Matthew Passion. It can sound slow and heavy, but* the sonorities me feel closer to God*. Not a fan of his Beethoven.


Interesting. Of course the sonorities are largely the same in any performance ?


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## Aurelian (Sep 9, 2011)

*Eroica*

The tempo of the first movement of the Eroica (Philharmonia 1961) is slower than many others, but when I got used to it I came to prefer it.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> The Worst:
> 
> This famous recording has just never worked for me. Klemperer's biggest issue is inflexibility, and here it is the lack of flexibility and dynamism that makes the interpretation plod. I happen to like slower tempos in this work, as my choice of favorites like Mengelberg, Furtwangler, and Jochum will attest. But this recording just misfires IMO, though the quality of soloists provides interest.


I'm in complete agreement on this one. Much as I admire Klemperer in virtually everything he chose to conduct, this Saint Matthew is pretty dire. In addition to the lugubrious tempi and lack of forward motion, the choral work is sloppy and the soloists (Christa Ludwig and DFD aside) are mostly at sea, with voices ill-suited to Bach, fighting against Klemperer's tempi.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

As stated elsewhere, my favourites would be
- Bach Passion of St. Matthew
- Mahler 2/decca
- Mahler Das Lied/EMI

I often like the much more feverish style in some of his earlier mono recordings.
Example of this style: a rushing Mozart 25/RIAS





There has been rumours about a Klemp performance of Mahler's 6th in the archives of the Hungarian radio, but I suppose it would have surfaced now.

Didn't collect that many recordings, & skipped some, but others I have include
- Mozart Zauberflöte
- Beethoven 5 Piano concertos etc./Barenboim
- Mahler Das Lied/vox
- Brahms German Requiem/EMI
- Beethoven Concerto 4/Novaes/vox (the one with the fast Adagio)
- Bruckner 4+6 /EMI

etc.


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## Rmathuln (Mar 21, 2018)

Still the best ever Bruckner 6th


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> The Worst:
> 
> This famous recording has just never worked for me. Klemperer's biggest issue is inflexibility, and here it is the lack of flexibility and dynamism that makes the interpretation plod. I happen to like slower tempos in this work, as my choice of favorites like Mengelberg, Furtwangler, and Jochum will attest. But this recording just misfires IMO, though the quality of soloists provides interest.
> 
> ...


Agree as to the St. Matthew passion. I think your words also apply to his Bach Mass.

Concerning the Brahms 4 I think Klemperer's recording contains the typical Brahms'ian fall mood in excess, so I think of it as being very much Brahms.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Obviously, if one is into HIP, Klemperer wouldn't normally be your man. I can't recall any examples at least, unless you count his preference for fast tempi in some of the earlier recordings.

Some of these Bruckner performances are also less weighty than those of his later style, though I wouldn't compare them to Pinnock's Bruckner. They were somewhat sloppy and had too poor sound quality to my ears. They aren't the EMI recordings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kle...BQgRKAE&biw=1280&bih=640#imgrc=UaHoKwpDdR_H1M
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Sinfonia-N-Romantica-Sinfonie/dp/B000YCXHJ0


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

premont said:


> Concerning the Brahms 4 I think Klemperer's recording contains the typical Brahms'ian fall mood in excess, so I think of it as being very much Brahms.


Except the 4th is a much more dramatic work. Compare for example with the Kleiber recording, or going back further, Furtwangler, De Sabata, and Toscanini. These recordings all had apocalyptic underpinnings. Next to them Klemp's comes across as an aimless stroll. Wrong for this symphony IMO.

But Klemp's 2nd is wonderful. In fact he makes it a bit more muscular than others, and it helps make the case for the symphony even more.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> Obviously, if one is into HIP, Klemperer wouldn't normally be your man. I can't recall any examples at least, unless you count his preference for fast tempi in some of the earlier recordings.
> 
> Some of these Bruckner performances are also less weighty than those of his later style, though I wouldn't compare them to Pinnock's Bruckner. They were somewhat sloppy and had too poor sound quality to my ears. They aren't the EMI recordings.
> 
> ...


Pinnock has recorded Bruckner?!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yes, the 2nd, with a diminuitive orchestra, of course.

https://www.linnrecords.com/recording-bruckner-symphonie-no-2


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

I'm on the negative side for Klemperer's St. Matthew. The St. Matt is a dramatic work, and Klemp's unvarying sluggish tempo saps the work of any drama. There's only one emotion: gloomy reverence. 

Even though I'm not German speaking, I can't stand recordings of the Magic Flute without the dialogue. The story disappears. Instead it becomes a kind of humorless schizoid oratorio. So, Klemp's Magic Flute winds up on my avoid list, despite fabulous singing. It's a shame Walter Legge didn't have a secret to session behind Klemp's back to record the dialogue so it could be spliced in after Klemp's death.

However, I love his Gerrman Requiem. Those fugues come at you like a steamroller. There's an earlier live Beethoven ninth on Testament with the Philharmonia and Hans Hotter. It's usually his Mahler 2 I pull down from the shelf. And I don't think anyone's mentioned his Mendelssohn. His Midsummer Night's Dream benefits from being taken seriously, and it doesn't hurt to have Janet Baker and Heather Harper in Spotted Snakes. His Italian could be more light hearted, but his Scotch is my favourite. It's full of atmosphere: grim, grey and majestic.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> Yes, the 2nd, with a diminuitive orchestra, of course.
> 
> https://www.linnrecords.com/recording-bruckner-symphonie-no-2


You can listen to it on YT: 




Trying to turn Bruckner into chamber music is weird. It's orchestral, not soloistic, writing.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Except the 4th is a much more dramatic work. Compare for example with the Kleiber recording, or going back further, Furtwangler, De Sabata, and Toscanini. These recordings all had apocalyptic underpinnings. Next to them Klemp's comes across as an aimless stroll. Wrong for this symphony IMO.


I grew up with the Klemperer studio recording, but the live recording from 1957 (Testament) with the Danish Royal Chapel (which I heard back then as it was broadcasted by the Danis state radio) seems a bit more dramatic at least in the finale, as I recall it. I haven't heard it since. But generally I do not consider the Fourth a particular dramatic work - like f.i.the First except maybe for the passacaglia finale. I think the Fourth is elegic and nostalgic, but also in some way lyrical. My favorite version is the one with the Czech Philh. conducted by Fischer-Dieskau.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

BTW, 4 CDs with Klemperer's own music can currently be sampled at Presto, including 4 of the symphonies conducted by himself

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=klemperer own compositions


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

premont said:


> I grew up with the Klemperer studio recording, but the live recording from 1957 (Testament) with the Danish Royal Chapel (which I heard back then as it was broadcasted by the Danis state radio) seems a bit more dramatic at least in the finale, as I recall it. I haven't heard it since.


This is funny. I was just listening to the Danish Beethoven 5th from that same recording yesterday and reminding myself I need to listen to the accompanying Brahms 4th. The 5th is fantastic, much better than his studio recordings, so I have high hopes for the Brahms 4th!


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> This is funny. I was just listening to the Danish Beethoven 5th from that same recording yesterday and reminding myself I need to listen to the accompanying Brahms 4th. The 5th is fantastic, much better than his studio recordings, so I have high hopes for the Brahms 4th!


It's not LvB's Fifth but the Eroica, you mean. Yes indeed a great performance.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

premont said:


> It's not LvB's Fifth but the Eroica, you mean. Yes indeed a great performance.


Yes, I mean the Eroica, the one I listed in my original post on this thread! That is what reminded me of the Brahms. (But I did also listen to the '57 5th on Testament, another great performance and better than the studio)


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

His Mahler 2 with the Philharmonia would have to go at the top of my Klemperer list.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

joen_cph said:


> As stated elsewhere, my favourites would be
> - Bach Passion of St. Matthew
> - Mahler 2/decca
> - Mahler Das Lied/EMI
> ...


Thank you for mentioning the early mono Mahler 2. That has also long been a favorite of mine. The intensity of the first movement is unmatched. And of course you have the added bonus of Ferrier. If forced to choose, I think the greater expansiveness in the final movement worked better in his two EMI recordings, but the 1951 Decca is still a great document of a symphony he more or less owned.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Let's not forget his Mozart! I have spent most of the afternoon today listening to his accounts of some of the late symphonies. I have always had a soft spot for them - no chocolate box picture prettiness but no lack of life either - and like them more than I do the Mozart from many of today's more revered conductors. His Zauberflote was one of the first LPs I owned and I have never found one I like as much. It has a fine cast and the dialogue (which would have been very tedious for a non-German speaking child) is not there. A great recording, I think. 

I did also wonder what others made of his Beethoven piano concertos - the ones from late in his life and with the young Barenboim - that are often praised as among his greatest. There is undeniably some exciting chemistry between the aged conductor and the young pianist but the speeds are positively sluggish. I never got on with them and one of them (the 4th, I think) was my first disappointing classical purchase.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Thank you for mentioning the early mono Mahler 2. That has also long been a favorite of mine. The intensity of the first movement is unmatched. And of course you have the added bonus of Ferrier. If forced to choose, I think the greater expansiveness in the final movement worked better in his two EMI recordings, but the 1951 Decca is still a great document of a symphony he more or less owned.


He didn't own this symphony. It has been particularly lucky on record and there are some terrific performances . In addition to the Klemperer EMI I have really good ones by Rattle, Tennstedt, Solti, Janowski, Kubelik, and we haven't even mentioned Bernstein and Mahler's other mate, Bruno Walter. The statement might of been true when I first started collecting records about 55 years ago but it certainly is not true today


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Klemperer's slow tempos were from his later years , when he was in failing health and had been been paralyzed on oneself side of his body by a stroke and other ailments . 
In his earlier ears , he had a reputation for extremely FAST tempos , and you can actually hear this on recordings he made primarily with the Berlin State opera orchestra , which was also a concert orchestra . There is a Mendelssohn Italian symphony with the Vienna symphony (not the more famous Philharmonic) which is said to have the fastest tempos in the finale on recording ! 
Klemperer suffered from bipolar disorder , but unfortunately the effective medication used for this today did not exist in his lifetime, and it was responsible for his erratic behavior , and no doubt effected some of his recordings .


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