# Bach's English and French Suites



## WildThing

So while I have numerous recordings of Bach's more most well known keyboard works -- The Goldbergs, WTC and Art of Fugue -- I must admit to not being that familiar with these suites. What are some of your favorite recordings, on both harpsichord and piano?


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## joen_cph

Absolute favourites:

Pogorelich/DG - English Suites 2-3. Piano. At least give it a listen.

Gavrilov/EMI-Warner - French Suites, complete. Piano.


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## Ras

*Schiff's second go with the French Suites*

Recorded in a church in Leipzig, *June 2010. These Andras Schiff *recordings are often forgotten, maybe because they haven't been released on cd?? I think they are only available on *DVD or Blu-ray*:


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## Mandryka

WildThing said:


> So while I have numerous recordings of Bach's more most well known keyboard works -- The Goldbergs, WTC and Art of Fugue -- I must admit to not being that familiar with these suites. What are some of your favorite recordings, on both harpsichord and piano?


I've thought much less about the English suites than the French. I like very light and simple performances of these suites, Bach played some of them at home we think (they're in a book of music his family used at home) and I sometimes like to think that he imagined them as a sort of wedding present for Anna Magdalena!

Try Koopman, it's easily available and rather nice, probably on Spotify so you have nothing to lose.


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## Bulldog

French Suites on Harpsichord - Cera, Leonhardt, Curtis.

I forgot to mention the David Cates set which is my favorite.


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## tdc

For the French Suites I like the Schiff performance best in post #3, for the English Suites my favorite is Alan Curtis on harpsichord.






I enjoy both a lot but prefer the English Suites, they seem a little more adventurous to me.


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## Itullian

Piano
Schiff, both recordings
Hewitt


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## tdc

Apparently the titles "French Suites" and "English Suites" are not the titles given by the composer. Bach composed a collection of suites simply titled 'Without Prelude" which are now called the _French Suites_, and a collection of suites titled "With Prelude" which have become known as the _English Suites_.


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## flamencosketches

For the English Suites I've been enjoying Ivo Pogorelich's CD with Suites 2 and 3 along with a few of Scarlatti's sonatas. Really good piano work.

As for the French, I'm much less familiar, but this morning I listened to Murray Perahia's piano version of the first few of them. Released on Deutsche Grammophon a few years ago.






Someone recommended this^ to me, Bob van Asperen playing the French Suites on harpsichord. I'm not a big harpsichord guy, but his tone and playing sounds really, really good to me.


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## Mandryka

We can make some inferences about the French suites. Five of them were written by Bach himself in the notebook of keyboard music known as the The Anna Magdalena Clavierbuchlein. This suggests they were played at his home, and we know that it’s not unlikely that he’d have used a clavichord for this. Bach was reputed to have been an excellent clavichord player. I think this is a good reason to see how the music works out on a clavichord, and indeed on the sort of piano Bach would have known - a C18 piano and a clavichord have some things in common. 

There are three clavichord recordings I can think of: Colin Tilney, Julian Perkins and Thurston Dart. I haven’t ever come a recording on a piano which isn’t anachronistic unfortunately.


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## Byron

Another recommendation for Schiff on the piano.

I have Christophe Rousset in the English Suites and Davitt Moroney in the French Suites on harpsichord. Both sound quite good to me, but I haven't heard any other versions to compare them with.


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## Ras

In the composer guest book section about JS Bach there are some recommendations of recordings to check out among other Bach works for harpsichord/piano:

Johann Sebastian Bach


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## Josquin13

I think you need to first listen to Bach's English & French Suites on a harpsichord in order to better understand just how peculiar some of the pianists' interpretations are of these works. For example, Andras Schiff's Decca recording of the English Suites won numerous awards, yet Schiff makes some odd interpretative choices in certain movements, relative to the harpsichordists. The same is true for Glenn Gould in the French Suites.

Here's an overview of a range of recordings that I'd recommend sampling (*=my top choices):

I. English Suites 1-6

A. On Harpsichord:

*First choice: Christophe Rousset: 













*Bob Van Asperen is a top choice too, but he's not as well recorded as Rousset: 




Pascal Dubreuil: 



Blandine Rannou: 




B. On piano:

*Ivo Pogorelich, Suites 2 & 3: 



*Ivo Janssen Suites 1-6: 



*Vladimir Feltsman: 




Murray Perahia: 



Robert Levin (Levin tends to be more freely ornamental than others): 



Glenn Gould: 




Sviatoslav Richter: there are multiple recordings by Richter: I tend to prefer his live Russian (even though they're not in the best sound) & Stradivarius recordings over his Philips recordings:

Stradivarius: 



https://www.amazon.com/Bach-English...v+Richter+bach&qid=1548095768&s=Music&sr=1-10
Philips: 




I've not heard Andrea Bacchetti's English Suites 1-6 on Decca, as the recording is very difficult to find.

Individually:

*Alicia de Larrocha: English Suite No. 2: 



Martha Argerich--English Suite No. 2: 



Maria Joao Pires--English Suite No. 3: 




II. French Suites:

A. On harpsichord,

*First choice: Bob Van Asperen: 



*Blandine Rannou (very soulful playing): 



*Gustav Leonhardt (as fine as Leonhardt is in this music, he isn't as well recorded as Asperen, Rannou, or Rousset, which is a negative): 



*Christophe Rousset: 




Ton Koopman (Koopman embellishes more freely than others, so I wouldn't recommend him as a starter choice, but rather as an alternative if you're in the mood to hear a more heavily ornamental approach to this music): 



Pieter-Jan Belder (excellent playing, but I'm not overly keen on the recorded sound that Brilliant has provided for Belder): 




B. On piano--

*Andrea Bacchetti (Sony): 



*Edward Aldwell:








*Tatiana Nikolayeva: 




Caspar Frantz (Frantz is exceptionally well recorded in a hybrid SACD format): 





















Ivo Janssen: 



Vladimir Feltsman: 



Murray Perahia: 



Andrei Gavrilov: Gavrilov has recorded the French Suites 1-6 twice: first for EMI & later for DG--Gavrilov's EMI recordings tend to be more romanticized, possibly influenced by Richter's Bach:https://www.amazon.com/Bach-French-...+suites&qid=1548101158&s=Music&sr=1-3-catcorr, while his later DG set is perhaps more Gould influenced (some have even called the playing "robotic"): 



. (Gavrilov has said that Richter & Gould were major influences during his formative years.)
Andras Schiff: https://www.amazon.com/Bach-J-S-Fre...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1548102009&sr=1-1

Individually:

*Emil Gilels (it's a pity that Gilels didn't give us more Bach): French Suite No. 5: 



*Alicia de Larrocha: Suite No. 6: 



Maria Joao Pires--Suite No. 2:


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## Mandryka

Apart from the clavichord, we know that Bach owned and liked the lute harpsichord. I've never heard the French suites played on one, apart from a reacording by John Paul, which I didn't like. 

There is, however a promising recording of a transcription for lute by Paul Beier. Has anyone heard it? I'm quite tempted to buy it.


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## realdealblues

Current favorite recording of the French Suites is:







Murray Perahia

Schiff and Hewitt are also excellent.

English Suites...well pretty much the same three; Perahia, Schiff, Hewitt are all excellent.

I still enjoy Glenn Gould in both works and still feel there is incredible value in listening to Gould's interpretations.

I don't really listen to them on Harpsichord anymore but Gustav Leonhardt is usually my go to if I was in the mood.


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## Guest

I own Perahia's recording of the English Suites, but I'll be honest and say I haven't given it a listen in a long while. I think I remember enjoying it, but it isn't one of Bach's works that I have spent as much time with.


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## wkasimer

French Suites on piano: Sergey Schepkin


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## DavidA

If you want something to bake you sit up try Glenn Gould.


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## Gallus

Perahia's recording of the keyboard suites are some of my favourite recordings of any music. Truly brilliant.


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## Mandryka

Josquin13 said:


> I think you need to first listen to Bach's English & French Suites on a harpsichord in order to better understand just how peculiar some of the pianists' interpretations are of these works. For example, Andras Schiff's Decca recording of the English Suites won numerous awards, yet Schiff makes some odd interpretative choices in certain movements, relative to the harpsichordists. The same is true for Glenn Gould in the French Suites.
> 
> Here's an overview of a range of recordings that I'd recommend sampling (*=my top choices):
> 
> I. English Suites 1-6
> 
> A. On Harpsichord:
> 
> *First choice: Christophe Rousset:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bob Van Asperen is a top choice too, but he's not as well recorded as Rousset:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pascal Dubreuil:
> 
> 
> 
> Blandine Rannou:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. On piano:
> 
> *Ivo Pogorelich, Suites 2 & 3:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ivo Janssen Suites 1-6:
> 
> 
> 
> *Vladimir Feltsman:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murray Perahia:
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Levin (Levin tends to be more freely ornamental than others):
> 
> 
> 
> Glenn Gould:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sviatoslav Richter: there are multiple recordings by Richter: I tend to prefer his live Russian (even though they're not in the best sound) & Stradivarius recordings over his Philips recordings:
> 
> Stradivarius:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bach-English...v+Richter+bach&qid=1548095768&s=Music&sr=1-10
> Philips:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've not heard Andrea Bacchetti's English Suites 1-6 on Decca, as the recording is very difficult to find.
> 
> Individually:
> 
> *Alicia de Larrocha: English Suite No. 2:
> 
> 
> 
> Martha Argerich--English Suite No. 2:
> 
> 
> 
> Maria Joao Pires--English Suite No. 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> II. French Suites:
> 
> A. On harpsichord,
> 
> *First choice: Bob Van Asperen:
> 
> 
> 
> *Blandine Rannou (very soulful playing):
> 
> 
> 
> *Gustav Leonhardt (as fine as Leonhardt is in this music, he isn't as well recorded as Asperen, Rannou, or Rousset, which is a negative):
> 
> 
> 
> *Christophe Rousset:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ton Koopman (Koopman embellishes more freely than others, so I wouldn't recommend him as a starter choice, but rather as an alternative if you're in the mood to hear a more heavily ornamental approach to this music):
> 
> 
> 
> Pieter-Jan Belder (excellent playing, but I'm not overly keen on the recorded sound that Brilliant has provided for Belder):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. On piano--
> 
> *Andrea Bacchetti (Sony):
> 
> 
> 
> *Edward Aldwell:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tatiana Nikolayeva:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caspar Frantz (Frantz is exceptionally well recorded in a hybrid SACD format):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ivo Janssen:
> 
> 
> 
> Vladimir Feltsman:
> 
> 
> 
> Murray Perahia:
> 
> 
> 
> Andrei Gavrilov: Gavrilov has recorded the French Suites 1-6 twice: first for EMI & later for DG--Gavrilov's EMI recordings tend to be more romanticized, possibly influenced by Richter's Bach:https://www.amazon.com/Bach-French-...+suites&qid=1548101158&s=Music&sr=1-3-catcorr, while his later DG set is perhaps more Gould influenced (some have even called the playing "robotic"):
> 
> 
> 
> . (Gavrilov has said that Richter & Gould were major influences during his formative years.)
> Andras Schiff: https://www.amazon.com/Bach-J-S-Fre...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1548102009&sr=1-1
> 
> Individually:
> 
> *Emil Gilels (it's a pity that Gilels didn't give us more Bach): French Suite No. 5:
> 
> 
> 
> *Alicia de Larrocha: Suite No. 6:
> 
> 
> 
> Maria Joao Pires--Suite No. 2:


I think I understand why you said that that Rannou, Rousset and Asperen are recorded better than Leonhardt in the French Suites. But I don't totally agree, I think it may be a question of transfer. I've just been given a transfer of the Leonhardt taken from a cassette by an expert amateur, and the harpsichord sounds livelier than the cd, there's an impression of hearing more transients, more details. Leonhardt is playing a different sort of harpsichord from the other three, but not an unattractive one in the music I think.

By the way, Leonhardt recorded the second suite again, on clavichord, it's exquisite I think


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## DarkAngel

For harpsicord I love the Rousset sets both performance style and the rich full tone sound using Ruckers instrument set them apart, you used to be able to buy these much cheaper in a 6CD boxset but now that is super expensive......

















Boxset 6CD (expensive now) with bonus "klavierbuchen fur wilhelm friedemann"

*







*

Next choice would be the Blandine Rannou combined 5CD boxset (with bonus Tocattas) , this is cheaper than individual purchases......


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## Mandryka

It's strange how one thing leads to another. Someone mentioned they liked the harpsichord on Asperen's recording of the French suites, and that led me to listen to Jory Vinikour's recording of the partitas, because he uses the same harpsichord. Vinikour's approach very much appeals to me, it's classical and rather restrained, with a great emphasis on poise and control and elegance of expression. And that reminded me of the Kenneth Gilbert - which in turn took me back to his fabulous recording of the French suites. Very well recorded and very recommendable in my opinion - but a big scaled interpretation, not a tender and intimate one.









There's something about the simplicity of Gilbert here which made me think of Hogwood. Returning to Hogwood's beautifully recorded French suites though, what impressed me was not so much 812 - 817, but rather two relative rarities which he put at the start, 819 and 818. A pleasure to rediscover these two suites played so gently and delicately on a Ruckers harpsichord.


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## Ras

*Anderszewski and Ashkenazy*

Not sure what to think of these yet, but I don't think anyone have mentioned them:

*P. Anderszewski has recorded three of the English Suites and one of the French Suites on piano:

















V. Ashkenazy has recoded the French suites - (he also recorded The Partitas, The WTC 1&2, Italian Concerto):
*


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## Mandryka

Blandine Rannou is a fabulous technician and an imaginative musician. She can control the touch, attack and colour of the notes easily. She knows how to put those skills together with the score to make some sort of poetry - occasionally totally original poetry which can knock your socks off - just listen to what she makes of the Loure of 816 for example! Or the ornamentation in the sarabande of 812, and the way it stands in contrast with the sparkling staccato and kaleidoscopic colours of the minuets which follow.

My experience of listening to her feels a bit like when I read a difficult literary essay or a poem by a great author - Pierre Bergounioux on Descartes for example, or a late poem by Mallarmé. I prefer to take it in small doses. I listen to a few movements, maybe a whole suite, but rarely two, and marvel at the originality, the brilliance of the thing. And then go away and think about it for a few days before coming back for more. I am very wimpy like that, I'm sure Bulldog would listen to the whole set over and over again.

If I try more than that she basically starts to get on my nipples.

She knows full well that they were part of Bach's music for domestic pleasure and for teaching students, but that, for her, does not mean that they are in anyway simple or modest. In the suites



> one encounters the values that Bach wished to transmit to others. They aspire to quintessence rather than simplification. The suites can thus help us to understand which elements were important to transmit.


These are according to her then, pieces which are meant to teach, but not to teach keyboard skills. rather their function is to teach about truth and invention and the meaning of life.

Not surprisingly her conception is big-scale.



> Bach is not writing miniatures: the music releases a flood of powerful, heartfelt emotion. . . Thus the use of dance pieces transports body, heart and mind to higher planes, reflecting the highest degree of an implicit culture, without ever falling into the trap of objective, intellectual and austere music, nor into that of a frivolous, lightweight character, while also avoiding facile emotion for its own sake. The lesson to be learned from these pedagogically conceived French Suites is, perhaps, the necessity of letting oneself dance, sing and speak. This marvellous, highly accomplished (though sometimes underestimated) music achieves its ends through the concrete reality of the instrument, without seeking to transcend it or evoke other sound-worlds. Here is a simple yet powerful harpsichord.


Her essay shows that in addition to being a technician and an imaginative performer, she is also a thinker. Is she a great poetical musician too? Does she turn the suites into great poetry?

I'm not sure. In fact, I don't think the question, though it was me who posed it, makes sense.


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## Mandryka

The harpsichord (Neuchâtel Ruckers) is a fine instrument in the higher notes especially, and is nicely captured on this record.

Rousset's conception of the music is extrovert and radiant rather than intimate or oneiric. The presentation is robust and lively. His touch is heavy and the attacks are unvarying.


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## Mandryka

Josquin13 said:


> A. On harpsichord,
> 
> *First choice: Bob Van Asperen:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Ton Koopman (Koopman embellishes more freely than others, so I wouldn't recommend him as a starter choice, but rather as an alternative if you're in the mood to hear a more heavily ornamental approach to this music):


Well Asperen embellished pretty freely too, his interpretation is based on the hypothesis that the French suites were inspired by Froberger, he ornaments the music like it's by Froberger.

Interesting to think about Aspreren's Art of Fugue from this point of view.


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## Mandryka

This is an interesting recording I think, she is possibly the only person I've heard on a modern piano who has successfully captured some of the asperities of a harpsichord. She also gives each suite a rather distinctive personality of its own.


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## Triplets

wkasimer said:


> French Suites on piano: Sergey Schepkin
> 
> View attachment 111935


Scepkin is my favorite Bach player. Listening to the Partitas right now


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## RockyIII

I like the Hewitt recordings of the English and French Suites. I had the Perahia French Suites but donated it to the library.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Another vote for Gould, and if that is wrong I don't want to be right


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