# What to do with classical music



## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Dear fellows,

Since last year i got really interested in classical music. I'm a little bit trained in solfege (singing a prima vista, singing chords, recognizing some functions etc.) but short-term memory drills always bother me. I also have a good understanding of theory and a basic knowledge of music history.

Point is that I don't really know what listening attitude i should employ, because of:
-having premium Spotify and able to order anything from internet, the amount of music is overwhelming. Though I know how valuable it is to open your spirit to different music, it can also be rewarding to _really_ understand one single piece, or composer. It would be easier having one specific taste, but I can enjoy Orfeo (Monteverdi) to Mahler's fifth, to early vocal music for example.
So if it's not taste maybe books can lead me? I read Aaron Copland's book on this subject but it just reminds me how much there _is_ regarding music. 
I always admiringly read on this site discussions on specific performances/conducters and even composers, but aren't on that level myself. But what is important for me, a relatively new listener?

Thanks and with love from Holland,
R.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Joris said:


> But what is important for me, a relatively new listener?


Simply to listen and explore. It sounds like you're already doing the "right" thing, and you should just keep going with it.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

You're way over-analyzing this. Find pieces you like, listen to them enough times so you know them, and what you like about them, and move on to the next. Ignore what doesn't "speak" to you, but come back to it occasionally. Start with the "standard" repertoire, explore byways as you come to ones that you like, then double back and try another. Go to concerts, where you will be exposed to things you haven't yet found to get to know, and keep going. This is a case where the forest is so daunting, that you get too freaked out to notice the beauty of an individual tree. Stop, take a deep breath, hug a tree or two, and forget that you're in British Columbia (figuratively). The important thing is the music. Interpretive nuances come later.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

You can start anywhere. Whether it is 'all over the map,' from one era and composer to another, or more systematic is most a matter of your personal disposition.

I would first suggest you go to Wikipedia, look at the BIG article on classical music, and find the time-line, and the more specific lists of composers by historic era (medieval, renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, modern (1890 - 1975) and contemporary (1975-present.) Know that 'what was happening as per style was not always simultaneous, that composers like Beethoven are 'Classical' while living a bit into the 'official' Romantic era.

From that, you can then check youtube or other good free audio sources to go in whatever direction appeals.

For some, the 'bigger' works for large orchestra are the most ready 'in' - for others, the chamber music, with its much lesser number of instruments and a more 'immediate' and personal nature are a better introduction.

Check it all.

Find a composer whose music you like, type search, " Composer List of compositions. Often, a long list of works will be found, either in chronological order and / or by genre, symphonic, chamber' vocal, opera, etc.

I urge you to delve into the more recent classical music of the 20th century, as you may be freer of some preconceptions of 'what music is' or the 'form' it should be in, and there is then that much more enjoyment for you.

There is a good argument to go chronologically, from the earliest medieval and progress from the past toward the present: this gives you the historic perspective, and a strong awareness of what twists and turns there are in music history, and that classical music is a constantly evolving thing.

Some youtube posters with channels have extremely 'well-informed' collections, works related by type, period, particular focus on music for one or more instrument, etc. If you find a piece you like on a Youtube channel, check the other works on that channel. If there is a general appeal to what that collection is, subscribe to the channel.

Other than those, do let your intuition and your ear guide you. Make a little effort to 'go outside' your immediate taste to check out other music. The above are a few approaches. Youtube is wildly rich with multitudes of great links, covering all periods and genres. The amount of repertoire can be extremely intimidating -- it gets 'cut down to size' the more you explore and begin to note your more marked preferences.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

TC has many informative threads where people describe this and that piece and then post a YT link. Whenever I find the description of something I'm not familiar with interesting I'll click on the link for a quick listen. It might not seem like rocket science, but if you do this at least once a day your horizons will broaden quite a bit.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

deggial said:


> TC has many informative threads where people describe this and that piece and then post a YT link. Whenever I find the description of something I'm not familiar with interesting I'll click on the link for a quick listen. It might not seem like rocket science, but if you do this at least once a day your horizons will broaden quite a bit.


Quite right, and I've learned of composers and pieces I was happy to know of from the 'current listening' thread, which is truly random, capricious, but that is some of the fun of it.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Joris said:


> Dear fellows,
> 
> Since last year i got really interested in classical music. I'm a little bit trained in solfege (singing a prima vista, singing chords, recognizing some functions etc.) but short-term memory drills always bother me. I also have a good understanding of theory and a basic knowledge of music history.
> 
> ...


One can't go wrong, IMO, with starting out with Mozart and also the three B's. I would avoid 20th century music like the plague.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Pyotr said:


> I would avoid 20th century music like the plague.


Why? There's lots of great stuff there. People shouldn't be biased against something before they try it.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Joris said:


> Dear fellows,
> 
> Since last year i got really interested in classical music. I'm a little bit trained in solfege (singing a prima vista, singing chords, recognizing some functions etc.) but short-term memory drills always bother me. I also have a good understanding of theory and a basic knowledge of music history.
> 
> ...


I've heard of people who walk into an art show, quickly scan the entire show, then sit in front of one painting for the remainder.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

PetrB said:


> I urge you to delve into the more recent classical music of the 20th century, as you may be freer of some preconceptions of 'what music is' or the 'form' it should be in, and there is then that much more enjoyment for you.


I'd start here too. It's just too easy to listen to Mozart and Beethoven...



Pyotr said:


> One can't go wrong, IMO, with starting out with Mozart and also the three B's. I would avoid 20th century music like the plague.


See? PetrB's point is immediately confirmed.



Mahlerian said:


> Why? There's lots of great stuff there. People shouldn't be biased against something before they try it.


Quite.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Pyotr said:


> I would avoid 20th century music like the plague.


In doing so you would be depriving yourself of a rich vein of wonderful music in a tremendous variety of styles.

It would be a terrible mistake to toss Schoenberg, Vaughan Williams, Debussy, Prokofiev, Janáček, Adams, Villa-Lobos, Stravinsky and Takemitsu into the same bin and ignore it all.


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for the helpful responses! 
Can anybody perhaps rec me stuff like the Sehr langsam part of Mahler's 5th, or Tristan und Isolde's prelude? So something which sounds like it's using a few ideas but in fact is very beautiful and moving, even complex. Hope that makes sense


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Joris said:


> Can anybody perhaps rec me stuff like the Sehr langsam [link fixed] part of Mahler's 5th, or Tristan und Isolde's prelude? So something which sounds like it's using a few ideas but in fact is very beautiful and moving, even complex. Hope that makes sense


Welp, so much for avoiding the 20th century :lol:

The prelude to act one of _Parsifal_ might fit the bill. Or perhaps Pelleas und Melisande (not to be confused with Pelléas et Mélisande or Pelléas et Mélisande or Pelléas et Mélisande).


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I did the random sampling thing for awhile, of course back then it wasn't all free, but eventually I wanted more direction. After several years of just wandering around shops buying things that looked pretty, I started trying to find out what were the most famous works, and what were the most famous recordings of them.

I'd been doing the random thing for maybe ten years before I heard of Kleiber's recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies, of Gould's recordings of Bach. 

Even after several years of trying systematically to find out about stuff like that, I only recently discovered Kovacevich's recording of Schumann's and Grieg's piano concertos. 

It's like everything has to be a big secret and no one can tell each other anything. 

I guess the best thing still is to look at books like the Penguin Guide, the NPR guide, Dubal's book on the canon, stuff like that. That works fairly well. Amazon reviews are good - don't trust any random group of 12 reviewers, but if a thing has 12 reviews and another thing has 50 reviews, that tells you something. Maybe you find a few reviewers who you trust, and you can kind of stalk them. 

Good luck man! I can't help you, I'm still trying to figure this out myself.


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Usually I do avoid the 20th century  Though I own Gustavo Dudamel's performance of 'Rite', which is interesting
EDIT: science, thanks! it's a journey indeed, and sometimes you might not see the wood for the trees


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Joris said:


> Usually I do avoid the 20th century


Please don't. You might find you love it!


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Hmm might try thanks for the reminder, although the dissonances scare me away sometimes. Matter of habituation I guess...I can at present enjoy dissonant 'pop' music, but couldn't at the onset
But I saw Pierre-Laurent Aimard play the Debussy Preludes  and as i mentioned early i listen to le sacre sometimes. Alsodig Carmina Burana.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Why? There's lots of great stuff there.


Because you will lose all of your friends, your wife will leave you and your children will shun you. 


But seriously, I'm a relatively new appreciator of classical music myself, and I took Joris' question (what is important for me, a relatively new listener?) to mean where is a good place to start. I was listening to Alban Berg's Violin Concerto awhile back(which I actually bought) and my wife went over to the CD player and turned it off. I have tried to like Stravinsky's Violin Concerto in D and Prokofiev's Violin Concerto No. 1, and they just didn't do anything for me. I paid money for these and really tried. I guess I just have to admit like Owen Wilson did to Will Ferrell in Wedding Crashers, "I admire you but I'm just not ready for this man." I'm sure it will come someday when I tire of M, the four B's and the two S's, among others.
You mentioned the Rite Of Spring and that is one work I want to listen too. I saw it recently performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by Yannick Nézet-Séguin. You may have heard he hired a female acrobat for the first act. Between Yannick and the acrobat's gyrations, along with the music it was truly magnificent. They actually got a recording contract for it and I made a resolution to wait for it to come out, rather than download free stuff or do the amazon thing.
I appreciate the thread that Science started with everyone's suggestions and fully intend to give it another go, starting with the Rite. I'm sure I'll be able to appreciate 20th stuff soon, my wife is another matter.


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

The title of this thread out of context always cracks me up. "What to do with classical music". Ha.


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Sorry for bumping, but does anyone know a good recording with Lieder sung by a female? That would be really cool.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Joris said:


> Sorry for bumping, but does anyone know a good recording with Lieder sung by a female? That would be really cool.


Ah, now you're getting into the good stuff! 

Jessye Norman sings a fantastic set of the _Wesendonck Lieder_. If you don't mind orchestral songs as well, there are any number of great recordings of Strauss's _Vier Letzte Lieder_: some of the most beautiful material ever written for the soprano voice. Janowitz/von Karajan/Berliner Philharmonica is a good bet for those. Of course, you'll want to check out Schubert if you're interested in lieder. He wrote mostly for tenor voice, but he transcribes well. Renée Fleming has recorded a set of his lieder. I've heard only excerpts, but they were very good.


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

What would be an essential George Frideric Handel recording?
Already listening to Messiah by LPO & Choir (2008)


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## Guest (May 27, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> I would avoid 20th century music like the plague.


I would avoid suggestions like this like the plague!

Avoid an entire century's worth of music. Now there's encouraging!!

But, I must say, you did bring it on yourself. It's funny. There was an expression that was old when I was a kid: like a kid in a candy store. Now imagine a kid or two going into such a store and asking "which candy do you like best?" or "which candy should I start with?"

Such a kid might indeed exist, though it's hard to imagine. But the equally hard to imagine (for me) person who would ask "which pieces should I start with?" is a veritable horde. On any classical music forum, you will find dozens of similar requests for guidance.

Well, it's a funny world to be sure.

Anyway, if you try to grasp the whole world at once, you will feel frustrated. Just start wandering. You'll see some things you like and some that you don't. You'll develop tastes. You'll meet people who have been to some of the same places you've been. You'll meet other people who have been to places you've not been to yet, places you might never have even heard of. It's all good.

And while you're at it, have some salt water taffy.


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## Karabiner (Apr 1, 2013)

Joris said:


> What would be an essential George Frideric Handel recording?
> Already listening to Messiah by LPO & Choir (2008)


"Handel: Orchestral Works" by Trevor Pinnock with the English Concert is an excellent collection.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Joris said:


> What would be an essential George Frideric Handel recording?
> Already listening to Messiah by LPO & Choir (2008)


Jordi Savall produces very good interpretations of Handel (and everything else he touches).


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

Sorry for bumping but another thread is not necessarily required. Does anybody know some essential records of bariton male singers? I'm kinda musical but never played classical music, just electric guitar..And i'm considering learning to sing classical music, and shunning to buy a cello of course  Anyway some inspiration for good (lowish) male vocals would be highly appreciated


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

I just listen to it & learn from it also.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

Joris said:


> Sorry for bumping, but does anyone know a good recording with Lieder sung by a female? That would be really cool.


Jessye Norman! Another poster recommender her also. Wagner's Wesendonck lieder, Schubert lieder, and Strauss' Vier letzte lieder. The Janowitz is often recommended for the Strauss but I have a *strong* preference for Norman - an essential recording for my life.

Christine Brands singing Mahler's Lieder Eines Fahrenden Gesellen (Songs of the Wayfarer) from the new Slowik recording (coupled with the 4th symphony) is *amazing*.

Dawn Upshaw!! Wouldn't even know where to start. Just type her name into Amazon and then buy everything.

There is a whole world of French Melodies. Check out Anne Sofie von Otter's Faure's La Bonne Chanson or anything by Veronique Gens.

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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

And perhaps, as you continue on this journey, you''ll find a composer whose every note was written just especially for you! Whose music resonates so deeply within you that you fancy yourself their ideal listener. That, if a time machine were invented, this is the person above all whom you'd want to meet. Such is the case with Chopin, for me. With another on this forum, Schubert is the essence of music. For another, life without Mahler is unthinkable. 
Who can know if something like this awaits you?


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Joris said:


> Usually I do avoid the 20th century


A big mistake unless you genuinely don't enjoy any music from this era, but if you hardly know any music from the 20th Century, then my suggestion would be to dive right into this massive pool. If you need any recommendations then just ask them here or send me a message.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Here is but a small sampling of music from the 20th century you've decided to "avoid like the plague" 

Arthur Honegger ~ Pastorale d'été 





Aaron Copland ~ Appalachian Spring









Manuel de Falla ~ Nights in the Gardens of Spain













Francis Poulenc:
Gloria




Suite from the ballet, Les Biches









Joaquin Rodrigo ~ Concierto Serenata for harp and orchestra













Claude Debussy ~ Danses sacrée et profane, for harp and strings





Maurice Ravel ~ Introduction and Allegro, for harp, Flute, Clarinet, and strings





Gerald Finzi ~ Eclogue for piano and string orchestra





Lou Harrison ~ Chorale, from Suite for Symphonic Strings





Prokofiev ~ Symphony No. 1 "Classical"





Stravinsky ~ Apollo, for string orchestra













John Adams ~ Common Tones in Simple Time





There, that wasn't so bad, was it?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

pardon, a criminal dupe considering the length of the post (blush)


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## Adeodatus100 (May 27, 2013)

Joris said:


> Sorry for bumping but another thread is not necessarily required. Does anybody know some essential records of bariton male singers? I'm kinda musical but never played classical music, just electric guitar..And i'm considering learning to sing classical music, and shunning to buy a cello of course  Anyway some inspiration for good (lowish) male vocals would be highly appreciated


Mozart has some very enjoyable music for baritone in some of his operas (mostly bass-baritone, I think) - Figaro, Papageno and Don Giovanni being probably the most famous. In fact after Mozart, right through 19th century opera there's some terrific music for baritones. It might have become fashionable to have the tenor as the star, but the baritone often got the better music!


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