# My newest recording with a link



## bagpipers

now you have a link to my video and you dont have to visit twitter.thank my my wife for this,i suck at computers.

this a a movement from an unfinished suite for solo piano


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## pluhagr

This piece just meanders around endlessly. I don't understand what is going on. It sounds random and frankly unmusical. The changes from each section sound awkward and unpolished. I would want better development and push and pull in the music along with a more interesting harmonic line as well.


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## bagpipers

pluhagr said:


> This piece just meanders around endlessly. I don't understand what is going on. It sounds random and frankly unmusical. The changes from each section sound awkward and unpolished. I would want better development and push and pull in the music along with a more interesting harmonic line as well.


the only point i would sort of agree with is the part about transitions.my viewpoint is the blunt and often harsh juxtapositions makes it interesting and expressive,the trasitional material is by design suposed to be harsh but thats exactly what i like.
your other points i just dont get


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## pluhagr

It's great that you think harsh juxtapositions make for a more expressive piece, but as a listener I just didn't like it. It didn't come across well to me. And I really don't hear much transitional sections. There are just weird jumps from this to that seemingly without much thought as to what came before. I will clarify my other points. Your composition doesn't feel like it is moving anywhere. It sounds as if you are simply playing strings of notes which have no relation to one another. Normally in music there is a sense of movement from one place to another. I did not sense this in your music. Secondly, I mentioned your harmony being uninteresting. It sounds plunky and could really use some more thought in terms of the different lines of music interacting to one another.


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## bagpipers

pluhagr said:


> It's great that you think harsh juxtapositions make for a more expressive piece, but as a listener I just didn't like it. It didn't come across well to me. And I really don't hear much transitional sections. There are just weird jumps from this to that seemingly without much thought as to what came before. I will clarify my other points. Your composition doesn't feel like it is moving anywhere. It sounds as if you are simply playing strings of notes which have no relation to one another. Normally in music there is a sense of movement from one place to another. I did not sense this in your music. Secondly, I mentioned your harmony being uninteresting. It sounds plunky and could really use some more thought in terms of the different lines of music interacting to one another.


ok,i dont know what to say i love the piece.i like the voice interactions.it starts with the trill against a melodie in G# minor then the B minor arpeggio which resolves bach to G# minor and then the counterpuctal voice line in B major.with the B# major resolving to E minor which sets up the theme b a melodic line in F major with a hint of D minor.this melodie almost like a rondo recures various times with some variation.this piece has great harmonic interaction but still keeps its fighting experimental edge


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## PetrB

Here is a highly successful and extremely episodic piece filled with juxtaposed elements, often in no way technically or thematically related. Apart from enjoying it, You might think of a thing or two about how it works to make your next piece work better.

Satie ~ Parade




Here it is in a piano four-hand reduction


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## bagpipers

PetrB said:


> Here is a highly successful and extremely episodic piece filled with juxtaposed elements, often in no way technically or thematically related. Apart from enjoying it, You might think of a thing or two about how it works to make your next piece work better.
> 
> Satie ~ Parade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is in a piano four-hand reduction


1.i dont know what you mean by making my next piece better.this is not the first piece of music i have written.all my music is pencil and paper only because i suck with computers.this is the first piece i uploaded here only because i played it myself.even then my wife had to upload it to this forum.
2.i listened to the youtube you displayed and i like my piece much better.i wrote what i heard and i wrote what i felt and i expressed what i wanted to express.i am sorry no one here appreciates my music and if i one day do decide to re work that movement from my suite that youtube piece certainly wont inspire any changes


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## PetrB

So you weren't really looking for any feedback or critique, then, just sharing and expecting praise?

If that is the case, best to upload to youtube and block comments.


Best regards.


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## pluhagr

PetrB said:


> So you weren't really looking for any feedback or critique, then, just sharing and expecting praise?
> 
> If that is the case, best to upload to youtube and block comments.
> 
> Best regards.


But if the comments are blocked no one can praise the music.


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## bagpipers

bagpipers said:


> 1.i dont know what you mean by making my next piece better.this is not the first piece of music i have written.all my music is pencil and paper only because i suck with computers.this is the first piece i uploaded here only because i played it myself.even then my wife had to upload it to this forum.
> 2.i listened to the youtube you displayed and i like my piece much better.i wrote what i heard and i wrote what i felt and i expressed what i wanted to express.i am sorry no one here appreciates my music and if i one day do decide to re work that movement from my suite that youtube piece certainly wont inspire any changes


i certainly would want good criticism but the responses seemed disperportionitly bad for a solidly good piece.i would expect some criticism but people just could not understand that piece at all.also the criticism did not make much sense to me


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## pluhagr

Maybe, just maybe some people can just dislike the music that you write... It could also be the case that you think it is good while most others dislike it. And maybe you aren't understanding the criticism as well. I laid it out again for you in different terms. So, I said the same thing to you twice. If you can't grasp my criticism after that then too bad, your loss...


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## Aramis

> i love the piece





> this piece has great harmonic interaction but still keeps its fighting experimental edge





> a solidly good piece


I wanted to become bagpiper's #1 fan but the place is already taken by the author himself.


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## bagpipers

Aramis said:


> I wanted to become bagpiper's #1 fan but the place is already taken by the author himself.


one would not write a piece if they did not like it.your expecting the composer to not truely love a piece they liked enough to record.

i write music all the time that i dont like.i usualy take the thematic material that i do like and recycle it,meaning in other words i do sort of a theme and variations on my own works.or i may orchestrate or deorchestrate it into something else.its been a long time since i have totaly scraped a disatisfactory work but i do that too.
i dont get the sarcasm in your post because without liking a work,why would i spend 2 years playing it and then record it.its like with a performer,they cant play a piece well if they dont fall in love with the music.however i have never claimed either that the movement was the hamerklavier sonata either.
peoples criticisms of me are as off base as there criticism of my music


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

bagpipers said:


> 1.i dont know what you mean by making my next piece better.this is not the first piece of music i have written.all my music is pencil and paper only because i suck with computers.this is the first piece i uploaded here only because i played it myself.even then my wife had to upload it to this forum.
> 2.i listened to the youtube you displayed and i like my piece much better.i wrote what i heard and i wrote what i felt and i expressed what i wanted to express.i am sorry no one here appreciates my music and if i one day do decide to re work that movement from my suite that youtube piece certainly wont inspire any changes


There is something wrong if you can't take any advice for learning and improvement. There is also something wrong if you keep thinking that your music is perfect. The way you replied to PetrB's post looks like you are replying to a harsh attack when PetrB was just trying to expand your knowledge and let you use your brain rather than lock yourself in your own world of perfection......any decent person would at least be able to recognise when someone is trying to help them with a bit of advice/feedback. Open your mind a little, please.


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## bagpipers

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> There is something wrong if you can't take any advice for learning and improvement. There is also something wrong if you keep thinking that your music is perfect. The way you replied to PetrB's post looks like you are replying to a harsh attack when PetrB was just trying to expand your knowledge and let you use your brain rather than lock yourself in your own world of perfection......any decent person would at least be able to recognise when someone is trying to help them with a bit of advice/feedback. Open your mind a little, please.


A few points
1.i have never said the piece was perfect,its the 4th movement of an unfinished suite likely to have 14 or 15 movements.who knows how many changes will be made before the work is finished.defending excessivly harsh criticism is not claiming a piece is perfect.

2.have i made recent changes to the piece? Yes;i changed an A in the bass to a G in the bass from the F major section leading into theme c about 2 months ago.before i recorded i made dynamic and expressive changes as well.

3.i welcome and fully expected criticism but i felt what i got was excessively harsh and i felt like people misunderstood the music.they did not criticise a car for not being a good enough car but criticised a car for not being a good enough truck.

4.have i changed other movements in the suite?Yes; two of the movements in the suite are reworkings of an old Pavana i wrote as well as an old etude i wrote.

5.will more changes come? I would likely say yes especially from the 2 longest and complex movements of this 14 movement work,but im not working on piano suite now i am working on an orchestral work at the moment.the 4th movement of piano suite is something i practice a lot so its easy to record.i have no computerized music so my orchestral work is paper only at the moment.i can only share that which i can play on the piano.

6.i am not against legit critique but i am not sure i understand where other posters are drawing there conclusions


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## pluhagr

How was the critique ever harsh? You might just be too sensitive.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

pluhagr said:


> How was the critique ever harsh? You might just be too sensitive.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I've noticed that sometimes you have a tendency to be a little bit brutally honest....
Still, Bagpipers does need to recognise these as not attacks, but as a pathway to open his mind even further when it comes to taking advice.


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## bagpipers

pluhagr said:


> How was the critique ever harsh? You might just be too sensitive.


to say ones music is random and un musical is a harsh criticism of anyones music.in other words they called one of my best solo piano movements nonsense.wouldnt that be like if were on a forum for physicists and mathamaticians and one was told they could not add 2+2.


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## bagpipers

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but I've noticed that sometimes you have a tendency to be a little bit brutally honest....
> Still, Bagpipers does need to recognise these as not attacks, but as a pathway to open his mind even further when it comes to taking advice.


i am very blunt,sometimes i almost speak a different language.


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## aleazk

bagpipers said:


> to say ones music is random and un musical is a harsh criticism of anyones music.in other words they called one of my best solo piano movements nonsense.wouldnt that be like if were on a forum for physicists and mathamaticians and one was told they could not add 2+2.


I think you are taking the critique and projecting it to things that nobody said. I happen to be a mathematical physicist and what you say is nonsense. When I'm solving something and a colleague points out a mistake in my reasoning, I don't think "how he dares to say that, does he thinks I don't know what a Hilbert space is?". No, I think "Oh, yeah, you are right, thanks for noticing it, I guess I will start again, not a big deal, since I'm very confident on my knowledge and my abilities, but I'm a human being and I can make mistakes sometimes of course".


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## bagpipers

aleazk said:


> I think you are taking the critique and projecting it to things that nobody said. I happen to be a mathematical physicist and what you say is nonsense. When I'm solving something and a colleague points out a mistake in my reasoning, I don't think "how he dares to say that, does he thinks I don't know what a Hilbert space is?". No, I think "Oh, yeah, you are right, thanks for noticing it, I guess I will start again, not a big deal, since I'm very confident on my knowledge and my abilities, but I'm a human being and I can make mistakes sometimes of course".


you missed the point.it was an analogy of someone saying your mistakes are of the most rudamentory level.it had nothing to do with comparing art to science.

the frustrating thing is not so much an issue of being to sensative and getting my feeling hurt,but people endlessly taking everything you say out of context.
i give up


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## pluhagr

I am only trying to be as constructive as possible.


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## PetrB

bagpipers said:


> A few points
> 1.i have never said the piece was perfect,its the 4th movement of an unfinished suite likely to have 14 or 15 movements.who knows how many changes will be made before the work is finished.defending excessivly harsh criticism is not claiming a piece is perfect.
> 
> 2.have i made recent changes to the piece? Yes;i changed an A in the bass to a G in the bass from the F major section leading into theme c about 2 months ago.before i recorded i made dynamic and expressive changes as well.
> 
> 3.i welcome and fully expected criticism but i felt what i got was excessively harsh and i felt like people misunderstood the music.they did not criticise a car for not being a good enough car but criticised a car for not being a good enough truck.
> 
> 4.have i changed other movements in the suite?Yes; two of the movements in the suite are reworkings of an old Pavana i wrote as well as an old etude i wrote.
> 
> 5.will more changes come? I would likely say yes especially from the 2 longest and complex movements of this 14 movement work,but im not working on piano suite now i am working on an orchestral work at the moment.the 4th movement of piano suite is something i practice a lot so its easy to record.i have no computerized music so my orchestral work is paper only at the moment.i can only share that which i can play on the piano.
> 
> 6.i am not against legit critique but i am not sure i understand where other posters are drawing there conclusions


like anyone deeply involved with their creative work, you must love it while you are working on it. The less experienced will stay in love with it long after it is done, the "Look, I made this," including going to the lengths of performing it, paying to have it performed, recorded.

I write, too. I've done enough, and been in a community (vs. self-isolation from others who write) where I've developed perhaps a far quicker ability to hear "what I've done" in a more detached and analytical manner. Sometimes, it takes waiting for some while to look at / listen to something you've done to not be so attached to it that you can not hear any of the weaknesses.

And, there are tons of "vanity productions" floating about on-line. All the various media wherein you can readily record and post things has made that a whole new arena clogged chock-a-block with mediocre to bad attempts.

You are clearly in love with what you have done. So be it. But I think you are more than naive about what happens when you present anything in public. Hang your works up on the wall (painting, galleries) or put up an audio link to your music, and expect any and all comment, good, bad, nonsensical, to the completely intelligent and canny.

To be offended, or self-defensive about any of those comments or critiques is in sharp contrast to your eagerness to make what you've made available to the public.

I should tell you, and you won't like it, I'm sure -- you need a real pianist, well accomplished and at least near the end of conservatory caliber, to present whatever you have written to its best advantage... you are not its best interpreter or proponent in that one aspect.


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## bagpipers

PetrB said:


> like anyone deeply involved with their creative work, you must love it while you are working on it. The less experienced will stay in love with it long after it is done, the "Look, I made this," including going to the lengths of performing it, paying to have it performed, recorded.
> 
> I write, too. I've done enough, and been in a community (vs. self-isolation from others who write) where I've developed perhaps a far quicker ability to hear "what I've done" in a more detached and analytical manner. Sometimes, it takes waiting for some while to look at / listen to something you've done to not be so attached to it that you can not hear any of the weaknesses.
> 
> And, there are tons of "vanity productions" floating about on-line. All the various media wherein you can readily record and post things has made that a whole new arena clogged chock-a-block with mediocre to bad attempts.
> 
> You are clearly in love with what you have done. So be it. But I think you are more than naive about what happens when you present anything in public. Hang your works up on the wall (painting, galleries) or put up an audio link to your music, and expect any and all comment, good, bad, nonsensical, to the completely intelligent and canny.
> 
> To be offended, or self-defensive about any of those comments or critiques is in sharp contrast to your eagerness to make what you've made available to the public.
> 
> I should tell you, and you won't like it, I'm sure -- you need a real pianist, well accomplished and at least near the end of conservatory caliber, to present whatever you have written to its best advantage... you are not its best interpreter or proponent in that one aspect.


am i claiming to be a good pianist.Walter Chestnut JR. likes it and he is a good composer especialy his song cycles which are great.he is going to get a string quartet he is working played by the Boston chamber players lead by violinist Jason Horowitz.
i see in this forum piece after of compositional Etudes all technicaly perfect but which artistic flavor or any attempt to make a real musical statement.if though my music often makes a somewhat bizzare musical statement its music


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