# The Rite Of Spring vs The Turangalila Symphony?



## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

What's your verdict? They're both massive and marvelous works that are both good rivals for each other. Try to judge on musical value rather than cultural, if possible (forgetting the riot that started)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Turangalila is fun, but Rite is the deeper work, I feel, and the one with greater staying power. I prefer Stravinsky's orchestration to Messiaen's, which seems to be made up mostly of primary colors for much of the piece.

My Messiaen orchestral work of choice would be Oiseaux exotiques.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Turangalila is more than just "fun" and I love it deeply, but I'd still go for The Rite most of the time, as it's probably my favorite Stravinsky. Messiaen has better orchestral works than Turangalila anyway, like Des canyons and Èclairs.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Rite Of Spring: hands down!


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I used to forget that the guy who wrote Turangalila was the same guy who wrote his later works. I'd listen to Canyons or Eclairs and it wouldn't really register that it wad the same composer.

I'd take Rite.


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## seven four (Apr 2, 2016)

Pugg said:


> The Rite Of Spring: hands down!


+1

:tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Turangalîla for me. 

Messiaen speaks my language.


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## Guest (May 10, 2016)

Balthazar said:


> Turangalîla for me.
> 
> Messiaen speaks my language.


Me too. The choice is between primeval rhythms and fantastic colours, and while I like both, the colours are endlessly varying and fascinating.

And it's insane.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

For my ears, Le Sacre du Printemps is a work of incredible genius that never fails to hold me completely spellbound with every listen.

Turangalila definitely has some exciting moments, and it's an exciting but overly long ride, and a bit bloated to succeed as a completely satisfying musical experience.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Turangalîla.

I must confess that I'm not a great fan of "Le Sacre du printemps", anyway.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

starthrower said:


> Turangalila definitely has some exciting moments, and it's an exciting but overly long ride, and a bit bloated to succeed as a completely satisfying musical experience.


I was listening to it today and that thought did strike me. It has a larger dynamic scope to The Rite, but it's length becomes an issue once you know what to expect. I think though, if it was say 40 minutes, people would probably consider it possibly the greatest 20th century work? maybe?


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Balthazar said:


> Messiaen speaks my language.


Same. In general I do find Messiaen's work to be more related to my musical pallet. I still love Stravinsky and think that The Rite deserves it's significance but in general, Stravinsky's work isn't as close to myself as Messiaen.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Turangalila here too. On my top 5 ever list  Didn't know you could compare the two... I've listened to Messiaen 10 times more. My favorite Stravinsky piece is Symphony of Psalmes.


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

To be fair,

Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" took on a whole new meaning when I heard Olivier Latry perform it together with his wife at Notre Dame in Paris:






"Turangalila" is with me until I die - And, maybe, if I am granted domicile in the Heavenly Kingdom, I'll know it there too


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Neither of these great works do much for me. Its a toss up.

Messiaen is the kind of composer I should really like, he seemed fascinated by a lot of the same kinds of things I am - musical color, nature, impressionism (as in the music of Debussy), a certain spiritual mysticism. It seems like he was a genius and many respectable members of this forum seem to hold his music in very high esteem. 

I want to like his music more than I do. It doesn't do a lot for me. I used to strongly dislike it actually, but now I seem to have a neutral reaction to most of it.


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

tdc said:


> Neither of these great works do much for me. Its a toss up.
> 
> Messiaen is the kind of composer I should really like, he seemed fascinated by a lot of the same kinds of things I am - musical color, nature, impressionism (as in the music of Debussy), a certain spiritual mysticism. It seems like he was a genius and many respectable members of this forum seem to hold his music in very high esteem.
> 
> I want to like his music more than I do. It doesn't do a lot for me. I used to strongly dislike it actually, but now I seem to have a neutral reaction to most of it.


Hi tdc,

Don't force yourself to like Messiaen or any other composer for that matter...


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

I like the thread -- even if I don't know why the comparison came about -- because it pits two fantastically exotic works for us to choose.

_(And look, we here despise polls, greatestetcetcwhatdoesthatmeanetcetc, but we do, even if implicitly, like comparing our repertoire -- we do! Stop rejecting the notion. We all know our favorites and relatives and comparisons and opinions. I list. I bet you do too.)_

_Rite of Spring_ was one of the first classical works I heard, and it never drew me into the fray, but it was one of the first nonetheless. And the more I listen to it, the more I get razzed about it.

But *Messiaen*'s _Turangalia_ only just _sprang up on me_ within the past year, with my brain finally noting the stunning orchestration, and (for real) not just dynamic _fffff_ and the _ondes martenot_ (which I actually find fascinating), but the orchestration's subtlety. Yes, the subtlety here: I feel like the music resounds (maybe loudly in many parts) with a certain bleeding intimacy and specificity in tones that, well -- this music took _time_ and _passion_.

Though, gosh, Stravinsky's too! And, well, his piece is pretty much the same way. Ugh. Um, first reaciton was _Turangalia_, but I have heard it less(!) and I am still unraveling it(!!) and so maybe I have misplayed(!!!) my opinion.

But Messiaen's piece gives me chills, and Stravinsky makes me move. The difference? Maybe none.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

There's no basis for comparison—the Rite is in a league of its own.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Ilarion said:


> Hi tdc,
> 
> Don't force yourself to like Messiaen or any other composer for that matter...


Wise words spoken Ilarion, you see, ageing helps to get wiser and wiser.:tiphat:


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## Guest (May 14, 2016)

Ilarion said:


> Hi tdc,
> 
> Don't force yourself to like Messiaen or any other composer for that matter...


Well, as my Gran would have said,



> The man forced his pig and he died


However, if the end result is liking, what's wrong the forcing?


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Wise words spoken Ilarion, you see, ageing helps to get wiser and wiser.:tiphat:


Thanx Pugg - Imo, this with ageing lets me know how much I don't know and it makes me happier as an individual since then I don't have to be bothered by trying to have mastery over things but instead to refine the tools used to sort out the wheat from the chaff and to enjoy living life to the fullest.


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