# Help Comparing these two Baroque pieces (by Bach)?



## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Hello guys, so for my first assignment in an intro to music class, I have been asked to analyze and compare 2 pieces of music from the Baroque era: Bach, Orchestral Suite No. 4, Gavotte and Bach, Orchestral Suite No. 3, Air. After listening to each this is what I found:

Air- 




Issues of rhythm, meter and tempo
-Tempo is slow, doesn't seem to vary
-Meter is duple, and the rhythm is regular, determined
Major or Minor Key
-It is in the major key, with variations in between
Texture (polyphone, homophony, and monophony)
-The texture is polyphonic
Dynamics
-There is little variation in the dynamics
Form
-The form is binary
Melody/contour
-And the melody/contour is a regular wave like pattern (up and down motion) returning to this home key (tonality)

Gavotte- (very similar qualities I though) 




Issues of rhythm, meter and tempo
-Tempo is faster, doesn't seem to vary
-Meter is duple, and the rhythm is regular, determined (I think)
Major or Minor Key
-It is in the major key, (not sure if it varies?)
Texture (polyphone, homophony, and monophony)
-The texture is polyphonic
Dynamics
-There is little variation in the dynamics (I think, I'm not sure on this one)
Form
-The form is binary
Melody/contour
-And the melody/contour is a regular wave like pattern (up and down motion) returning to this home key (tonality)

Being non-music major I am having a difficult time further distinguishing the two. Basically can you guys help me find specific differences in these elements (like how is the polyphony is used differently from the one is Gavotte, or how is the rhythm different,etc). Using specific times from the video might help me specifically see and understand as well. I am having such a hard time finding specific differences because this is my first course ever in music, so if you guys can fact check my findings so far and provide any further specific help it will be GREATLY appreciated.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

You've already worked out the most important differences. If this is your first ever music assignment, I can't imagine that they need you to go into much more detail. 

One thing I'd suggest is to change what you've written about the melodies. The Air's melody is long and heavily ornamented. It's the sort of melody usually associated with opera. The Gavotte's melody is shorter and more blunt. In the Air, the violins carry the melody, whereas in the Gavotte it's carried by the oboes.


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Your response is extremely appreciated, and that helps a lot actually, THANK YOU! But yes, I did do most of the basics but my teacher was reading an example paragraph on major/minor and it was astonishingly specific (such as noting when it changed from major to minor and what not), which caught me off guard considering this is mus 101, and we are only 2 weeks into the course. So I'm hesitant to just put the basics. Thanks again, and btw would you agree with all the other information I put up, or do you find anything wrong. Any other responses on specific things I can look for?


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Can anyone help me figure out when the compositions goes from major to minor? I am having a particularly difficult time with this. I just need some specific times from the video links, so I can understand the difference. All I know is that major is bright, minor is dark, but it's somewhat difficult for me specifically note where the change is made.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Hm, I don't think either of them decisively change from major to minor at any point, but they both make use of accidentals (chromatic notes).


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Webernite said:


> Hm, I don't think either of them decisively change from major to minor at any point, but they both make use of accidentals (chromatic notes).


Thanks. I'm not sure what an accidental is, but would you mind showing me sone specific example (time from the videos maybe) where its done, so I can understand what I should be listening for.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

The Air modulates to a minor key at about 2:10 (listen from 10-15 seconds before to hear it properly) and again wherever the repeat is. It's a bit difficult to spot because immediately after the cadence (phrase end), while the upper parts still hold the minor chord they landed on the bass part moves the piece back in to a major key.

The Gavotte modulates to a minor key at about 0:54 (and again because of the repeat), listen to it 10-15 secs before as well. Again this is cancelled in the next bar.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

musicclass said:


> Thanks. I'm not sure what an accidental is, but would you mind showing me sone specific example (time from the videos maybe) where its done, so I can understand what I should be listening for.


Listen to the Air from 0:18-0:26. You're in D major, two sharps (F and C). In this phrase the C sharp is cancelled and a D sharp is introduced which hints at E minor, though these are both dropped in the next bar and the piece never actually reaches E minor.


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

For the Air, listen to the part between 1:40 and 2:10 (this is the beginning of the "B" section, since the piece is in binary form). Here it moves around two minor keys between 1:40 and 2:10, E minor and B minor, eventually coming to a cadence on B minor. It achieves these short-term modulations through a sequential step-pattern in the bass, from A -> D# dim -> E minor -> A# dim -> B minor. 

For the Gavotte, the modulation to minor happens in pretty much the same way: right after the "B" section of the binary form, beginning at 0:38 and ending around 0:55. It stays in B minor here. Another thing you could say about the Gavotte is that they usually (including this one) begin on the 3rd beat of the measure, not the downbeat. I would also say the tempo is "moderately fast."


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Thanks a lot guys, you have no idea how much that helps. Can I quickly run my instrumentation by you guys; For Air, i have violins and violas, and i believe the harpsichord is playing the bass part (i think its called basso continuo)? I couldnt tell in my original video link, but this one seems to indicate it (Air - 



).

For the Gavotte, I can't really tell what all the instruments are. Violins, Oboes, Trumpets is what I get from it. And is the harpsichord still playing the bass voice (I see it there but I cant really tell)?


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

For the Air the instrumentation is just violins, viola and "continuo." The continuo can be realized in a variety of different ways, but nowadays you'll usually find that the orchestra uses some cellos and a harpsichord (playing together). For the Gavotte, the instrumentation is more complicated, but you can view the sheet music here. This is the sheet music for the entire Orchestral Suite No. 4, but the instrumentation for the Gavotte is the same as it says on the first page, if I'm not mistaken.


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

Thank you again. I'm nearly done, and on my last paragraph and i'm just going to talk about forms and reoccurring themes/motives. Both seem to be in binary form, but is there any further way I can distinguish the two, as in more specific differences between the two binary pieces? As for themes, I do hear some things that sound a like throughout the piece, but isnt' that just because its in the binary form and it repeats- How do i differentiate this from a theme? What would be considered a theme?


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## musicclass (Oct 1, 2011)

My analysis on Repetition, Development of Themes

Here are the two compositions:
Air: 



Gavotte: 




And this is a rough outline of my analysis after listening to it several times:
Both the Air and Gavotte are binary forms - two sections (a & b), with each ending and repeating after a strong cadence.
In the Air this theme starts off the composition from 0:00-0:14. 
Melody is used many times with variations; it follows the first play with one in a different key (at a lower pitch) at 0:23-0:27, with the same melody overlapping and following in the back from 0:26-0:30, and then again in another low key from 0:29-0:34. 
At the start of the B section, there is a similar sounding melody, though clearly not the same, from 1:41-1:45, and then again from 2:14-2:18. 
Like the Air, there is the theme in the beginning from 0:00-0:04, Repeat in the same key from 0:20-0:24. 
Nearly identical melody at start of the B section (0:39 to 0:42, with repeats involving variation during 0:47-0:51 and 1:10-1:14 . unlike the Air because the theme doesn't go through as much change.

Can someone check to see if my information is correct, and perhaps tell me how I can further specify how the themes vary during different points of the composition (when its in a different key, and other ways it is used differently throughout). As always, help is very much appreciated.


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