# Noticed something today



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I noticed something today, and I was wondering if you guys noticed it too...

Most of the great composers that have existed have either been grumpy ******** or zany man-children :lol:

That is all.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Yep, they're a wierd mob, that's for sure.

Other kinds of categories -

Composers:

- with "mother issues"
- addictions (eg. alcohol)
- control freaks (which is a variation on your "grumpy ********" category)
- paedophiles
- extreme political ideologies
- (near) total recluses
- caustic and sarcastic, biting tongues/humour, could hurt people easily with this aspect

So what I think from this is that composers & musicians, etc., whether great or not great or in-between, where just people like we are. With all our flaws etc. They were not gods or monuments. In some ways, I think of them as living on through their music, whatever these flaws were.

If we look at what are the so-called "normal" or balanced composers, there are probably not that many. Haydn and Dvorak spring to mind as being of overall good, moderate & friendly, gentlemanly character, fitting into none of the categories above (as far as I can tell?). Others come to mind as well, but I can't remember, one would probably be Vaughan Williams...


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

violadude said:


> I noticed something today, and I was wondering if you guys noticed it too...
> 
> Most of the great composers that have existed have either been grumpy ******** or zany man-children :lol:
> 
> That is all.


maybe most of us are too, but our lives are not closely examined by generations of biographers...


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Chopin I believe was a very difficult person. I think he would be in the grumpy jerk category. Quite contrary to much of his music.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Sid James said:


> If we look at what are the so-called "normal" or balanced composers, there are probably not that many. Haydn and Dvorak spring to mind as being of overall good, moderate & friendly, gentlemanly character, fitting into none of the categories above (as far as I can tell?). Others come to mind as well, but I can't remember, one would probably be Vaughan Williams...


I think Mendelssohn was also a good guy for the most part.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Yes, many of them were unpleasant. I'd venture to say a bit moreso than the average person; though to expand on graaf's point, not only is the public eye on them, but some are actively deified by admirers of their music. This can make their quirks and transgressions seem even more red against the white background of their music. I think it's essential to separate our opinions of the art from the artist, especially for particularly controversial figures like Wagner. 

clavichorder: Chopin's oeuvre always struck me as rather grumpy (or, rather, that even his major-key pieces sound minor)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

violadude said:


> I noticed something today, and I was wondering if you guys noticed it too...
> 
> Most of the great composers that have existed have either been grumpy ******** or zany man-children :lol:
> 
> That is all.


Seems to me it ain't that easy to determine that. Mostly you have to buy someone's story. Mozart seems to have stayed sort of childish, but then he wasn't permitted to be a child when he was one. Same deal with musicians that were termed virtuosos as children.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

The other thing I'd add is that the artistic world, incl. the musical world, can be very b*tchy and back-stabbing. & it's not only prima donnas who are like that, definitely. But of course, it's not only creative people who can be like this, I don't doubt that a lot of the more competitive industries esp. are like this. & I don't think advertising execs and PR men contribute that much to our perception of life as do artists, even though they all can be douchebags on the personal front, deification or not, fandom or not, etc...


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I feel it is my duty to point out that Brahms only _pretended_ to be a grumpy anus. In reality, he was a secret cuddle monster.



Sid James said:


> The other thing I'd add is that the artistic world, incl. the musical world, can be very b*tchy and back-stabbing. & it's not only prima donnas who are like that, definitely. But of course, it's not only creative people who can be like this, I don't doubt that a lot of the more competitive industries esp. are like this. & I don't think advertising execs and PR men contribute that much to our perception of life as do artists, even though they all can be douchebags on the personal front, deification or not, fandom or not, etc...


I think this dynamic is due in part to art being very often based on the promotion and defence of aesthetic ideologies. Battling over ideologies, physically or intellectually, is never pleasant!


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

My dad always says that he's not sure but that there isn't a fine line between genius and insanity...


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## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

For my career presentation in speech class I chose opera singer and opened with "To be an opera singer, you've got to be a little crazy." I guess that goes double for composers.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

and they have mad hair


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

that's because you don't know many physicists!! specially in the theoretical side, man, what a bunch of crazy people (me included, of course).


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Allow me to dispell the myth of the mythical musician. 
It's a common misconception that all these musicians are extraordinary beings. However, their musical achievements aside, put them all together and you have the average citizenry.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

> I feel it is my duty to point out that Brahms only pretended to be a grumpy anus. In reality, he was a secret cuddle monster.












grumpy-o-meter out of scale here!!, haha.


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## Eviticus (Dec 8, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I feel it is my duty to point out that Brahms only _pretended_ to be a grumpy anus. In reality, he was a secret cuddle monster.


lol! What happened to Brahms?! At some point he went from a dapper clean shaven young fop to bad Santa.

Must have been rebuffed by Clara Schumann


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Eviticus said:


> lol! What happened to Brahms?! At some point he went from a dapper clean shaven young fop to bad Santa.
> 
> Must have been rebuffed by Clara Schumann


also, why Brahms always appears sitting in ridiculous small chairs??



















(Bad Santa, good one, haha)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Klavierspieler said:


> My dad always says that he's not sure but that there isn't a fine line between genius and insanity...


There appears to be _no_ line between genius and incompetence in one or several 'mundane' subjects like common social discourse, or even how to run a snow thrower. Except for the rare polymath/Renaissance man, it's as if the 'standard ration' has just been distributed unevenly.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Atleast two women attempted suicide over Debussy's behavior.


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## Eviticus (Dec 8, 2011)

aleazk said:


> also, why Brahms always appears sitting in ridiculous small chairs??
> 
> (Bad Santa, good one, haha)


haha yes well they do look uncomfy. Maybe they hid his little siamese legs that only separate from the back of one knee!

Evidence Exhibit No.3










I guess it's life reflecting art. He never was one for giant leaps forward.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Oh come on, look at that quirky little Brahmsian smile in Aleazk's first picture! He's thinking: "Ha! I've succeeded in making them all think that I'm a horrible person when, actually, I'm adorable! I'm so lonely  "


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

aleazk said:


> that's because you don't know many physicists!! specially in the theoretical side, man, what a bunch of crazy people (me included, of course).


What are you _talking_ about? Crazy physicists? I'm not even sure what you mean . . .


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Dodecaplex said:


> What are you _talking_ about? Crazy physicists? I'm not even sure what you mean . . .


actually, Feynman was good at the bongos:

v=qWabhnt91Uc


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

aleazk said:


> actually, Feynman was good at the bongos . . .


Maybe, but could he play fugues on the bongos?


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