# Favorite Beethoven's Ninth Symphony?



## Keemun

What is your favorite recording of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony? Here is a list of the recordings I presently have:

Wand / North German Radio Orchestra and Choir
Vanska / Minnesota Orchestra
Haitink, London Symphony Orchestra
Karajan / Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (1963)
Furtwangler / Bayreuth Orchestra and Choir
As for my favorite, I am leaning toward the Wand/NGRO recording.


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## ChamberNut

Harnoncourt/Chamber Orchestra of Europe - Teldec Label


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## opus67

I own only one and have heard not more than two. From the two, I'd have to say the Fricsay-Berliner Philharmoniker, which is the one I have, the other being Gardiner and The Romantic and Revolutionary Orchestra. It also features some of the most famous vocalists of the time, including the likes Fischer-Diskeau and Seefried. Having said that, I think the final movement lacks a bit of "oomph." For instance, (*I* feel) the percussion in the tenor+choir-part (right before the famous chorus) lacks some energy. Does someone know what the instruments are during that part? Maybe I'm just used the more "brash" versions of recent times, but apart from that, it's a wonderful recording.


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## Morigan

I've only heard about two or three. I've always thought that Karajan's 1963 recording was considered the best in history.


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## Frasier

I'll go with Klemperer's 1958 recorded performance. I can't claim to like all Klemperer's renditions because his tendency to slow tempi sometimes palled (like in the 5th) but in these big works, the 9th and the Masses, he excelled in my view.


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## Guest

Morigan said:


> I've only heard about two or three. I've always thought that Karajan's 1963 recording was considered the best in history.


me too, and that is the reason why i bought that recording.


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## opus67

And I thought Furtwangler's 1941(?) was the greatest.  Seriously, I have read in many places that it is the best, even with the old recording technology.


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## Chi_townPhilly

I have the three major single-volume review texts in the English language, and one of them says that Berlin/Karajan 1962-63 "set the standard for a generation," so if you're one of those people who put it at the top of your list, you obviously have some very influential company. I totally agree that the recording is a "keeper." 

That being said, experienced readers already know that I put Furtwangler/Bayreuth at the head of my list


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## Amy

Most definately the recording with the Orchestra Revolutionaire- I think with this symphony, timing is absolutely essential and this is the only recording I've heard where the variations in tempo feel right. Someone smashed my copy of it up at school though (presumably they thought it would be funny) and I've never been able to get hold of it on its own since as it was part of a box set


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## JohnM

Amy said:


> Most definately the recording with the Orchestra Revolutionaire


Agreed, that's great. Also Harnoncourt/COE on Warner Bros

I also like Riccardo Muti's 9th with the Philadelphia on EMI Records, because I feel it provides me with the most "middle ground" version I think I've heard, a yardstick by which I can compare other interpretations!


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## opus67

Amy said:


> Someone smashed my copy of it up at school though (presumably they thought it would be funny)


Sorry to hear that... 


> and I've never been able to get hold of it on its own since as it was part of a box set


...and here's the good news. 
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sym...7451839?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183572217&sr=8-1


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## ChamberNut

JohnM said:


> Also Harnoncourt/COE on Warner Bros


Fully agree


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## Amy

Yay that rocks so much! Thanks opus!


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## mohawk1975

Anyone recommend abbabo 92 with the BPO???

I'm thinking of adding it to my collection of ninth's


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## opus67

If you want an excruciatingly slow version, I'd heartily recommend the version by Bohm. I don't yet know the other details, but I just listened to this recording on the radio...man, was it SLOOW! I got to hear the symphony from the middle of the second movement, and judging by the tempo, I knew that the chances that this was Bohm conducting was pretty high. I was right. It's like you are driving fast (playing the symphony in your head at the tempo you're used to) and you hit smack into the slow moving traffic in front (listening to the actually recording).


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## ChamberNut

opus67 said:


> If you want an excruciatingly slow version, I'd heartily recommend the version by Bohm. I don't yet know the other details, but I just listened to this recording on the radio...man, was it SLOOW! I got to hear the symphony from the middle of the second movement, and judging by the tempo, I knew that the chances that this was Bohm conducting was pretty high. I was right. It's like you are driving fast (playing the symphony in your head at the tempo you're used to) and you hit smack into the slow moving traffic in front (listening to the actually recording).


I wonder how long that version is? Perhaps over the 70 minute mark?


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## opus67

Could be. What I listened to was around 50 minutes, so add about 1.5 movements. But the final moments were taken comparatively faster. I was so fed up that I turned the receiver off just when the 'Ode to Joy' started...I was bumping into too many cars!


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## opus67

It's this recording - Bohm's last recording of this symphony, made in '81*. To his credit, the third movement was quite good, just like the second movement of Beethoven's 6th that I have.

edit: Btw, the whole thing lasts for 79 minutes!

*According to info I have, he conducted another recording that year. It was for the film-version of Stauss' _Elektra_.


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## Morigan

Oh my God, who do all conductors start performing everything at an excruciatingly slow pace when they grow old? While some will say that it brings a new clarity to the music or such arguments, I think it makes the music boring in most cases. If you don't have enough vim to conduct anymore, retire! I have heard the last recordings of Böhm and Karajan and I nearly fell asleep. Also, there's this DVD of the Great Mass in C minor that Bernstein recorded one year before his death. Dreadfully slow!


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## pianomusic

The recording by Bernstein certainly deserves mention. Many of the versions mentioned here are certainly great, but for me the piece is so well known that it requires a refreshing view. I heard the Bernstein after many years here: http://www.classical.com/permalink/recording/2147513537/
It brought back to me how useful that over-charged temperament of his can be to bring a really modern view to the work. Did I say modern? He recorded this some decades ago, but yes - it is modern even now.


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## ChamberNut

opus67 said:


> It's this recording - Bohm's last recording of this symphony, made in '81. To his credit, the third movement was quite good, just like the second movement of Beethoven's 6th that I have.
> 
> edit: *Btw, the whole thing lasts for 79 minutes*!


That's just insanity.


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## opus67

Hi, pianomusic. Welcome to TC.


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## opus67

ChamberNut said:


> That's just insanity.


I don't know. Maybe DG was banking on Domingo.


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## oisfetz

Cyprien Katsaris


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## terotero

vouch Jochum and Klemperer , both are great!


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## beethoven_fan92

Von Karajan and the Berlin philharmonic!!!! 
!!!!!!!!


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## Moldyoldie

Pardon me for bumping this thread, but I wanted to put in my two cents. I also think a thread on everyone's favorite Beethoven's _Ninth_ shouldn't be allowed to just fade away. 

My favorites over the years have been:
*Schmidt-Isserstedt/Vienna Phil./London* (Outstanding soloists!)
*Böhm ('72)/Vienna Phil./DG* (A magnificent, high calorie performance and grand sense of occasion!)
*Karajan ('77)/Berlin Phil./DG* (Better recording than his '63, but near equally great performance!)
*Leibowitz/Royal Phil./Chesky* (They put the "JOY" into Ode To Joy!)

Sure, I can add *Fricsay/Berlin/DG* to the list. I was never overly enamored with Szell, Toscanini, Wand, Muti, Klemperer, Bernstein, Dohnányi, Norrington, Goodman, and a few others, though they're all seemingly well-regarded by some and certainly have their fine points. I've yet to hear Reiner's or either of Solti's recordings, all with the Chicago Symphony and with their fervent fans. Nor have I heard the renown Gardiner, Abbado, and Barenboim. I don't have to hear the Zinman/Tonhalle, not after hearing samples.

I've also yet to hear Furtwängler's famous '51 live performance at the post-war re-opening of the Bayreuth Festival which some people simply swear by. I tend to take event-driven hyberbole with a grain of salt, especially after hearing Bernstein's "Fall of the Wall" recording. Furtwängler's equally famous and harrowing '42 wartime recording simply must be placed in a special category on account of its comparatively wretched sound quality, if for no other reason than for the benefit of novice listeners. However, I would also join those who suggest it's a performance that thoroughly demands to be heard.


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## Artemis

Moldyoldie said:


> I've also yet to hear Furtwängler's famous '51 live performance at the post-war re-opening of the Bayreuth Festival which some people simply swear by. ............


As a Beethoven devotee, I have collected many recordings of this work. For sure, one version in one's possession is not enough especially as there are so many different interpretations.

I won't beat around the bush: my favourite is Bayreuth '51. It's the one for me which has the best atmosphere. For anyone only used to more recent recordings (eg Harnoncourt, Mackerras) this Furtwangler version may sound rather strange, and they may not like it at first. Basically, try to forget all other versions you may have heard, and approach it afresh and listen to it a few times. It has a charm and majesty unrivalled by the others. It's better than the '42 version and better than the '57 Lucerne, even though Furtwangler's own favourite was Lucerne.

Of the others, in my view Klemperer is the best of the older 1960's versions (better than any Karajan), together with Fricsay/BPO. Of the modern versions, Barenboim is the best, with Mackerras and Harnoncourt close up behind. For me, these modern versions all sound rather too clinical, too refined, and not enough emotion; and they don't match up to the supremely good vocals in the '51 Bayreuth with the splendid array of singers. Furtwangler had real style, pulling it all together, like no other.


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## Rmac58

I have Bernstein's on DG. Live on Christmas day, 1989. No more Berlin wall!
The best? Who's to say, I enjoy it, and that's what's counts.


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## BuddhaBandit

Now tell me... I've heard many good things about Fritz Reiner's recording with the CSO. What do y'all think of it?


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## anon2k2

I really like the ORR/Gardiner as well. I also have a great time listening to the London Classical Players/Norrington, which was one of the treasured discs I took with me almost everywhere when I traveled on business more than I do now, listening to it on a Sony Discman back in the late 80's.


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## SamGuss

I was all set; put my eyes on this:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=3460

Now, after reading all of this - not so sure. From what I have heard of Bernstein, I enjoy his stuff. Matter of fact my future buys include some Mahler, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Schumann conducted by him and fairly certain of the Mahler and Schumann works.

Karajan 1963 or 1977 sounds like a sound choice but can only seem to find recordings from 1962 and 1976. anyone have any links on exactly what I should be looking for if I go this route?

Klemperer seems like a fine choice, but the closest to a 1958 performance is this one: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=5071 but it says recorded in 1957. Is this one and the same and I am mistaking the release date as recording date (which would apply to the above Karajan as well)?

Or should I just say heck with it and get all of them?  Not that this is a bad idea one day.... but I am not ready to start collecting multiple versions yet.

So, if you have links to the above works to help point me in the right direction I'll still make up my own mind but I would have an idea of which recordings is which. Thanks in advance!

Sam


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## Artemis

SamGuss said:


> Klemperer seems like a fine choice, but the closest to a 1958 performance is this one: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=5071 but it says recorded in 1957. Is this one and the same and I am mistaking the release date as recording date (which would apply to the above Karajan as well)?


I think this Arkiv one is the live version recorded in 1957. They don't appear to have the 1957 studio version which is normally recommended (which I have among several others), on the EMI Legacy label:http://www.emiclassics.com/releasedetails.php?rid=23017

In addition, as noted earlier, I would also recommend you get the 1951 Furtwangler 1951 Bayreuth version. I don't generally like older recordings but this is an exception, as Furtwangler was regarded as probably the greatest of all Beethoven interpretors. It's a live recording in mono, with the odd glitch here and there, but overall it's very satisfying.

Just a word of warning: This work is very much a staple among beginners, and some people are saying on other Boards that the single piece of music they never want to hear gain is this, as it's been done to death! I must admit after a while one does tire, but at least it's nice to know one has the best recordings to go back to occasionally. Incidentally, Klemperer's version of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is superb, as too is his Brahms Requiem. For Beethoven's 6th, I like Bohm/VPO.


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## SamGuss

Thank you very much for the direct and honest response. I will seriously consider the Furtwangler and was good to be able to count out a couple of my choices and get a link to the Klemperer.

Sam


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## Rondo

I like the Karajan and Solti versions of the 9th. 

Anyone familiar with the Re-orchestration by Mahler? I've been meaning to give it a whirl.


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## SamGuss

Bernstein Symphony No. 9 - awesome stuff.

I plan on getting Klemperer and Furtwangler versions in the future as well. The more and more I listen to classical music, the more I am appreciating the differences between conductors and various orchestras. As such, I am planning on getting duplicates of my more favorite pieces sooner than I originaly thought.


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## SamGuss

Ok, for laughs I have to share this... and show off my awesome newbness to classical. I knew Symphony No. 9 was known as the "Choral" symphony, but until just now in the 4th movement I didn't realize there was singing....

Can't understand a word of it, but it flows with the music so it sounds really cool!  Now to go and search and see what heck they are saying...


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## BAWIG05

SamGuss said:


> Ok, for laughs I have to share this... and show off my awesome newbness to classical. I knew Symphony No. 9 was known as the "Choral" symphony, but until just now in the 4th movement I didn't realize there was singing....
> 
> Can't understand a word of it, but it flows with the music so it sounds really cool!  Now to go and search and see what heck they are saying...


Don't worry about it. There was plenty of stuff I didn't know when I was new to this, and now five years later I'm still learning.

The text, which I'm sure you've looked up, is a setting of "Ode to Joy" and is in German. Older archival performances have been sung in Italian, but this is rare. Leonard Bernstein also tinkered with the words in 1990, to create an "Ode to Freedom" symphony. Silly, really.

Finally, to answer the thread, I love Bohm (DG, Vienna), Bernstein (DG, Vienna), and Friscay (DG, Berlin)


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## Rachovsky

1963 recording with Herbert von Karajan and the B.P.

I believe it was remastered in 2003 to sound better.


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## Mad Ludwig

The Toscanini/NBC SO from the early fifties has always been my choice. RCA issued this as part of a complete LvB set. I believe my standard for the symponies will always be this version; taut, exciting performances. In addition the ninth has the Robert Shaw Chorale.
It has been many years since I have heard this set; they were in monaural sound and the RCA engineers recorded in a dead acoustic,Studio 8 I believe. After sampling many other versions I settled on Solti and the CSO as being nearest the spirit of the Toscanini and in stereo. I'd place Szell and the CO as a tie with Solti.. Both are all I'd ever want in this music.


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## Tapkaara

I'm a sucker for Klaus Tennstedt's live recording in the Albert Hall on BBC. If electricity could be translated into music...this recording proves it.


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## Moldyoldie

Tapkaara said:


> I'm a sucker for Klaus Tennstedt's live recording in the Albert Hall on BBC. If electricity could be translated into music...this recording proves it.


You talked me into it.  My comments are found somewhere on this linked page.


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## World Violist

I've been wanting to get this one for some time; what does everyone think of it?










Beethoven: Symphony No. 9
Osmo Vänskä, conductor; Minnesota Orchestra; Minnesota Chorale; Helena Juntunen, soprano; Katarina Karnéus, mezzo-soprano; Daniel Norman, bass


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## Rondo

World Violist said:


> I've been wanting to get this one for some time; what does everyone think of it?


It's different, but in a really good way. Not thunderous like some and not meager like others (*cough* Cobra). I really think Vanska has found some very fertile 'middle' ground with Beethoven (also in reference to his 4th and 5th). Well worth checking out.


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## World Violist

Rondo said:


> It's different, but in a really good way. Not thunderous like some and not meager like others (*cough* Cobra). I really think Vanska has found some very fertile 'middle' ground with Beethoven (also in reference to his 4th and 5th). Well worth checking out.


Haha... Cobra...

Anyway, I ordered Vanska's recordings of 4&5 earlier last week... I was going to get the whole set and wanted to see what others' thoughts on them were. I kinda figured they'd be quite intense readings (as are much of the Sibelius readings), so that's good... anyway, thanks for your thoughts on the 9th, Rondo!


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## Tapkaara

Moldyoldie said:


> You talked me into it.  My comments are found somewhere on this linked page.


Read your review...glad you enjoyed the recording.

Yes, some of the orchestral details get lost in the notoriously bad acoustics of the Albert Hall, but Tennstedt's performance is indeed a throwback to the days of Furtwangler.

Such a great performance!


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## Lord Lance

Has anyone heard Jochum's three Beethoven Ninths with the RCOA, LSO and BPO? Is it a worthwhile recording or another decent Ninth passing by?


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## JACE

Ludwig van Beethoven said:


> Has anyone heard Jochum's three Beethoven Ninths with the RCOA, LSO and BPO? Is it a worthwhile recording or another decent Ninth passing by?


I think Jochum's LvB 9 with the LSO (EMI) is superb, particularly the final movement. It is EPIC.

Here's another reviewer's impressions of Jochum's EMI Ninth: http://classicalcandor.blogspot.com/2010/07/beethoven-symphony-no-9-cd-review.html

BTW: I've not heard Jocuhm's other LvB 9's on DG & Decca.


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## Bogdan

opus67 said:


> And I thought Furtwangler's 1941(?) was the greatest.  Seriously, I have read in many places that it is the best, even with the old recording technology.


Yes, 1942, that one gets my vote.


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## AClockworkOrange

I cannot pick one - I just cannot do it. I'll just pick my present favourite 5 - best I can manage I'm afraid:


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## DiesIraeCX

My favorite recordings of Beethoven's 9th are in this order. Similar to AClockworkOrange, I won't just pick one!

- Karajan 1963, Berliner Philharmoniker on DG
- Fricsay 1958, Berliner Philharmoniker on DG
- Toscanini 1952, NBC Symphony Orchestra
- Furtwangler 1942, Berliner Philharmoniker
- Karajan 1977, Berliner Philharmoniker, the DVD by EuroArts, _not_ the 9th from the 77' Beethoven Cycle. Although I like that one, too. 
- Szell, Cleveland Orchestra on Sony


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## tgtr0660

Kill me, but I love Solti's version with Chicago.


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## DiesIraeCX

tgtr0660 said:


> Kill me, but I love Solti's version with Chicago.


I've yet to hear it, but I've read that Solti's Finale is amazing. I'll have to listen to it one of these days.


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## Itullian

tgtr0660 said:


> Kill me, but I love Solti's version with Chicago.


One of my favorites. Awesome.


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## hpowders

Wilhelm Furtwängler, Lucerne Festival, 1954.

Works for me.


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## tgtr0660

DiesIraeVIX said:


> I've yet to hear it, but I've read that Solti's Finale is amazing. I'll have to listen to it one of these days.


And the first movement. The cataclysmic climax at the middle is just thunderously powerful. Only Furtwangler at his best did it like that.


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## Vaneyes




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## Itullian

Vaneyes said:


>


Yup..................................


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## Pugg

​
Talking about a spectacular ending........


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## Konsgaard

I am an avid collector of Beethoven's 9th, or I used to be, I got tired of this hobby. I have heard all the recordings mentioned on this thread.

The Furtwangler 1942 is indeed the best performance. However, the sound is really bad. It is difficult to imagine this performance bettered. However, due to the sound I will leave this out of my recommendations.

For a first choice it is difficult to choose between two: Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin on Warner and Blomstedt/Dresden on Brilliant Classics. Barenboim's is more Furtwangler-inspired and mysterious, Blomstedt offers more precise and sharp playing. I like both equally. Overall, these recordings offer the best 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th movement. Also, judging it as a whole, as it should be, they make more sense than most recordings. Both offer first-rate recording (the Blomstedt in analog), especially the Barenboim sets new standards.

I would like to comment on the other oft- recommended performances. The Wand is indeed an amazing performance and very well recorded. However, my once concern is that the first movement recapitulation is not as powerful as it should be, the timpani could be more prominent (compare this with Blomstedt or Furtwangler). 

The Gardiner is also excellent overall. I remember reading somewhere that it is a bit faster than the actual metronome markings. I don't have this source anymore, but I do feel the Adagio should be a bit slower. Having said that it is the only HIP recording that stands out for me (with the exception of Hogwood, even though his orchestra is not that good)


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## Brahmsian Colors

Reiner/Chicago Symphony. The final movement in particular is outstanding.


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## Heck148

Haydn67 said:


> Reiner/Chicago Symphony. The final movement in particular is outstanding.


Yup. my first choice...great recording, the finale is outstanding, nothing like it...


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## SixFootScowl

This one is hard to (if not impossible to) beat:


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## AfterHours

Though I probably like Wand/NDR the best of all the most _well-known_ versions, and perhaps Gardiner's of all the most well-known HIP recordings, I'd never found a recording that actually did full justice to all the power and emotional nuance of the work. Especially in terms of following Beethoven's original tempos while managing to maintain articulation and the emotional content of all its instrumental parts, and most especially the proper spatial dynamics between them so that its "form" and the dynamics within it are accurately realized. Particularly in the first movement, the form tends to usually sound a bit too of a "single mass", or "granitic", even in the best recordings, whereas its parts should be spaced as if they're moving in and out of each other more inter-weavingly and sweepingly, rising out of and back into the composition, with more separation (while still maintaining its form as well). But this is almost impossible to capture on a recording, and probably extremely difficult to conduct and orchestrate, especially at Beethoven's original tempo.

I'd never found a rendition that pulled this all off...

Until this one, one of the most incredible recording feats of the 21st century, and undoubtedly the greatest rendition of the 9th ever produced: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JMXW-FWAL._SX466_.jpg

If you're wondering why you haven't heard about it, or much about it, Norrington's previous recording several years prior was quite bad and pretty decisively panned, so this newer one (2002) was released with little fanfare and little attention from the mainstream Classical world. But try it, it's available on Spotify. It is incredible and I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you're like me, you'll be left wondering where this has been all your life.


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## hpowders

AfterHours said:


> Though I probably like Wand/NDR the best of all the most _well-known_ versions, and perhaps Gardiner's of all the most well-known HIP recordings, I'd never found a recording that actually did full justice to all the power and emotional nuance of the work. Especially in terms of following Beethoven's original tempos while managing to maintain articulation and the emotional content of all its instrumental parts, and most especially the proper spatial dynamics between them so that its "form" and the dynamics within it are accurately realized. Particularly in the first movement, the form tends to usually sound a bit too of a "single mass", or "granitic", even in the best recordings, whereas its parts should be spaced as if they're moving in and out of each other more inter-weavingly and sweepingly, rising out of and back into the composition, with more separation (while still maintaining its form as well). But this is almost impossible to capture on a recording, and probably extremely difficult to conduct and orchestrate, especially at Beethoven's original tempo.
> 
> I'd never found a rendition that pulled this all off...
> 
> Until this one, one of the most incredible recording feats of the 21st century, and undoubtedly the greatest rendition of the 9th ever produced: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JMXW-FWAL._SX466_.jpg
> 
> If you're wondering why you haven't heard about it, or much about it, Norrington's previous recording several years prior was quite bad and pretty decisively panned, so this newer one (2002) was released with little fanfare and little attention from the mainstream Classical world. But try it, it's available on Spotify. It is incredible and I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you're like me, you'll be left wondering where this has been all your life.


Certain works are best heard live and can't fairly be captured by a recording:

Mahler Symphony No. 8; Saint-Saens Organ Symphony; Beethoven's Ninth Symphony-are a few.

I agree with you about the Wand performance of Beethoven's Ninth. I have the complete Wand set and am very happy with this conductor who nine times, demonstrates his love for this music; no feeling of "routine" anywhere in the Wand set.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> This one is hard to (if not impossible to) beat:


The soloist are perfect in every way.


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## SixFootScowl

hpowders said:


> Certain works are best heard live and can't fairly be captured by a recording:


Of all the live concerts I have attended, I attended the Ninth a couple months ago with the Budapest Festival Orchestra and it blew me away. I have never enjoyed a live classical concert as much. Other than that I can only say I was thinking to recommend Fricsay to you but I see Pugg beat me to it. I don't know what tempo/metronomes he followed but it is the best Ninth I have ever heard on CD and I have some 40+ sets.


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## DavidA

anon2k2 said:


> I really like the ORR/Gardiner as well. I also have a great time listening to the London Classical Players/Norrington, which was one of the treasured discs I took with me almost everywhere when I traveled on business more than I do now, listening to it on a Sony Discman back in the late 80's.


The slow movement is too fast in both cases


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## DavidA

Klemperer's is an uphill climb to Joy but worth the journey.


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## AfterHours

hpowders said:


> Certain works are best heard live and can't fairly be captured by a recording:
> 
> Mahler Symphony No. 8; Saint-Saens Organ Symphony; Beethoven's Ninth Symphony-are a few.
> 
> I agree with you about the Wand performance of Beethoven's Ninth. I have the complete Wand set and am very happy with this conductor who nine times, demonstrates his love for this music; no feeling of "routine" anywhere in the Wand set.


Totally agree. Live is yet another reason I am championing the Norrington 2002 recording I linked to (definitely not the earlier London Classical Players rendition, btw). Also, the fact that it's live and the recording captures all the details and color and spatial dynamics makes it even more stunning.

Quite clearly the best ever recorded in my opinion. I'm saying that versus approx 75+ other recordings I've heard, including those across this message board, many of which are superb, and very worthy of ... second place ;-) hehe

Again, in case it was missed, it's this one: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JMXW-FWAL.jpg

VERY strongly recommended to all who might read this. Forget the fact that it has practically no reputation, except it is considered among the very best by Classicstoday and won some awards in Japan (fwiw). It's available on Spotify in stunning sound if you don't want to purchase it in full.


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## AfterHours

Pugg said:


> The soloist are perfect in every way.


I would agree that Fricsay's is a truly superb rendition. While personally I wouldn't quite rank it at the top, I feel there is no doubt it is among the best!


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## merlinus

I recently listened to Thielemann/VPO. A most excellent performance, with superb SQ. Now at the top of my favorites, alongside Fricsay/BPO.


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## AfterHours

anon2k2 said:


> I really like the ORR/Gardiner as well. I also have a great time listening to the London Classical Players/Norrington, which was one of the treasured discs I took with me almost everywhere when I traveled on business more than I do now, listening to it on a Sony Discman back in the late 80's.


You should try Norrington's 2002 rendition and see what you think (If you haven't heard it yet). I find it much, much better than his earlier one with the London Classical Players (which, for me is a bit on the perfunctory side and while it follows Beethoven's original tempo, it doesn't seem to muster enough articulation and intensity in the playing, in order to create enough tension between the parts, orchestral color and full realization of Beethoven's vision). Anyway, Norrington's 2002 recording is a massive improvement in every way and actually the greatest 9th ever in my opinion, (while still following the original tempo too!). ... As a fully HIP rendition, I would probably agree that Gardiner's may be the best of its kind.


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## KenOC

Best recorded Choral? There is no question.










I see I'm not the first with this...


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## Brahmsianhorn

There is only one.


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## Merl

Solti's exciting reading really is a belter and many others mentioned are splendid too. Most people know the big players for a classic Ninth (Furtwangler, Barenboim, Haitink, Stokowski, Fricsay, Karajan, etc) but if you want a really good pair of of super budget versions try Edlinger or Drahos' takes on the Ninth. Both complete Beethoven sets are dirt cheap and fine but rounded off with super Ninths. I've always admired both of these recordings. I must admit I've never enjoyed Bernstein's Ninths except the 'Bernstein in Berlin' one (purely cos it's a one-off) but even that is soooooo slow.


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## AfterHours

Brahmsianhorn said:


> There is only one.


For historical significance, I can see where youre coming from. But, though undoubtedly thrilling in parts (especially in the chaotic, angry finale), I find this and most of Furtwangler's 9ths pretty inconsistent in their quality of play and, mainly due to the time period, too poorly recorded to bring out the full articulation, color and power of Beethoven's conception (not necessarily Furtwangler's fault except for insisting on live recordings). I also feel Furtwangler plays the 9th a bit too slow to consistently maintain as much intensity and conflicting/communicative/interweaving dynamics between orchestral parts as it would if the tempo were increased closer to Beethoven's wishes. ... I do think his 1954 Lucerne performance was his best, overall better than the more famous WW II recording you cite. That all said, this WW II performance should be heard by every fan of Beethoven's 9th at least once.


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## Brahmsianhorn

AfterHours said:


> For historical significance, I can see where youre coming from. But, though undoubtedly thrilling in parts (especially in the chaotic, angry finale), I find this and most of Furtwangler's 9ths pretty inconsistent in their quality of play and, mainly due to the time period, too poorly recorded to bring out the full articulation, color and power of Beethoven's conception (not necessarily Furtwangler's fault except for insisting on live recordings). I also feel Furtwangler plays the 9th a bit too slow to consistently maintain as much intensity and conflicting/communicative/interweaving dynamics between orchestral parts as it would if the tempo were increased closer to Beethoven's wishes. ... I do think his 1954 Lucerne performance was his best, overall better than the more famous WW II recording you cite. That all said, this WW II performance should be heard by every fan of Beethoven's 9th at least once.


We all come to classical music looking for different things. I own around thirty 9ths, from Weingartner to Gardiner, and can appreciate them all. But the 1942 Furtwangler stirs my emotions like no other. Furtwangler's gift lies in his understanding of the dramatic narrative, and this in my opinion is what gets us closer to Beethoven's wishes than quality playing, articulation, etc. Incidentally, I have the Tahra release, and I have always found the sound quality to be quite good for its time, with nice depth and resonance. At least there is not crackle and hiss to distract you from hearing what is being played. Also, you have to understand that Furtwangler did not care for perfect articulation. What he wanted was more of a homogenous sound to communicate the drama. He saw music as more than just a collection of notes. And what is amazing is how he got the entire orchestra to think as one and go along with him.


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## AfterHours

Brahmsianhorn said:


> We all come to classical music looking for different things. I own around thirty 9ths, from Weingartner to Gardiner, and can appreciate them all. But the 1942 Furtwangler stirs my emotions like no other. Furtwangler's gift lies in his understanding of the dramatic narrative, and this in my opinion is what gets us closer to Beethoven's wishes than quality playing, articulation, etc. Incidentally, I have the Tahra release, and I have always found the sound quality to be quite good for its time, with nice depth and resonance. At least there is not crackle and hiss to distract you from hearing what is being played. Also, you have to understand that Furtwangler did not care for perfect articulation. What he wanted was more of a homogenous sound to communicate the drama. He saw music as more than just a collection of notes. And what is amazing is how he got the entire orchestra to think as one and go along with him.


Great explanation, thank you


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## Oldhoosierdude

My favorite version is anytime the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra does it and I am there.

My favorite recorded would be a toss up. Any of these: Kletzki, Blomstedt, Barenboim, Cluytens and Gardiner a clear HIP winner. I've tried the traditional favorites of Fricsay, Karajan, Szell, Bernstein and pefer the others. Haven't tried Wand.


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## flamencosketches

Bumping this thread for a new generation. What's everyone's favorite 9th? 

I never liked the 9th til recently when I heard the Fricsay/Berlin and shortly thereafter the Reiner/Chicago. Both of these recordings transformed my perception of this music real quick. I can't decide which I like better, and I haven't heard either of them enough to articulate the differences between them. But I'll say this much, both are incredible, much better to my ears than the Karajan ('63 and '77) that I had been more accustomed to.

I passed up on Norrington's Beethoven 9 at the record store earlier (the choice to indicate the metronome markings on the track listing was offputting... as if he really wants to hit home the scholarly discipline of his production) but now I'm curious. It was like a $2 CD in any case, maybe I'll go back for it...


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## Guest

Nelsons. CBSO live at the Proms in 2015 (I think)


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## Merl

Lots of very ninths out there, Flamencosketches) and i have somewhere around 150+ but off the top of my head these are all worth hearing for various reasons.

Leinsdorf (still one of my favourites)
Karajan / BPO (63 - the gold standard)
Munch / BSO (i heard this performance once described as vulgar for its power - still its one of the greatest 9ths ever with a piledriver of a 1st movement. Absolutely intense performance)
Blomstedt / Dresden (great performance from that super cycle)
Abendroth (1951 joyful performance)
Haitink / LSO live (First movement is ok but then it picks up steam very quickly)
Tilson Thomas / SFSO (as above but even better - the finale is superb)
Szell
Reiner 
Edlinger 
Drahos
Fricsay 
Gardiner 
Chailly 
Wand
Solti (thrilling finale)
Barenboim / Berlin (old style Klemperesque gigantic 9th but nowhere near as slow)
Karajan (77) as good as 63 (some would say better)
Bohm / VPO (one of the greatest 9ths around. I used to dislike this one)
Norrington (Hannsler) - I still think he takes the opening movement a tiny bit too quick but the rest is absolutely superb


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## CnC Bartok

I'd narrow my choice down to four, but there are many others I wouldn't be without....

Fricsay
Jochum (London)
Solti in Chicago (daftly slow slow movement, but it works!)
Krivine (the only HIP version that does the third movement very quickly but without trivialising it)

I must also admit Karajan makes a decent event of this Symphony, all four recordings I have with him in control are really good.


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## flamencosketches

I'll have to give the Karajan '63 another shot, it seems y'all really like it. It didn't leave much impression on me at all in the past.


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## Merl

flamencosketches said:


> I'll have to give the Karajan '63 another shot, it seems y'all really like it. It didn't leave much impression on me at all in the past.


Try the 77 Karajan. Some prefer it to 63. And i agree with CnC Bartok about Jochum. His 9th is excellent. Forgot about that one. If you like very big 9ths then Munch is immense. The recording gets a bit congested at times but by god its raucous.


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## Brahmsianhorn

flamencosketches said:


> I'll have to give the Karajan '63 another shot, it seems y'all really like it. It didn't leave much impression on me at all in the past.


It's overrated IMO. I like the '76 Karajan better. More conviction and intensity.


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## Itullian

Brahmsianhorn said:


> It's overrated IMO. I like the '76 Karajan better. More conviction and intensity.


i agree. i like Solti's analog 9th too.


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## flamencosketches

I've heard and felt similarly about the '77 Karajan 9th as well. But it's entirely possible that I wasn't paying attention.


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## Merl

flamencosketches said:


> I've heard and felt similarly about the '77 Karajan 9th as well. But it's entirely possible that I wasn't paying attention.


Or maybe you just dont like it. We all hear different things. Do you like quicker 9ths, slower ones, powerful ones? Or do you simply not like the symphony? Not everyone loves it as much as some of us.


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## flamencosketches

Of those options I lean toward “simply not liking the 9th”. As I mentioned, I’m just now coming around on it. Fricsay’s and Reiner’s great interpretations have both convinced me of its worth despite their differing artistic choices. I’ll have to revisit the Karajan with fresh ears, I have the set anyway.


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## Larkenfield

Merl said:


> Lots of very ninths out there, Flamencosketches) and i have somewhere around 150+ but off the top of my head these are all worth hearing for various reasons.
> 
> Leinsdorf (still one of my favourites)
> Karajan / BPO (63 - the gold standard)
> Munch / BSO (i heard this performance once described as vulgar for its power - still its one of the greatest 9ths ever with a piledriver of a 1st movement. Absolutely intense performance)
> Blomstedt / Dresden (great performance from that super cycle)
> Abendroth (1951 joyful performance)
> Haitink / LSO live (First movement is ok but then it picks up steam very quickly)
> Tilson Thomas / SFSO (as above but even better - the finale is superb)
> Szell
> Reiner
> Edlinger
> Drahos
> Fricsay
> Gardiner
> Chailly
> Wand
> Solti (thrilling finale)
> Barenboim / Berlin (old style Klemperesque gigantic 9th but nowhere near as slow)
> Karajan (77) as good as 63 (some would say better)
> Bohm / VPO (one of the greatest 9ths around. I used to dislike this one)
> Norrington (Hannsler) - I still think he takes the opening movement a tiny bit too quick but the rest is absolutely superb


"Blomstedt / Dresden (great performance from that super cycle)." I entirely agree. Wonderful live performance with a great orchestra. Ken Burns used this in his Frank Lloyd Wright documentary. It's nice to hear different recordings but I feel thot only one great one is required.


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## DarkAngel

I have always liked 77 Karajan B9 best, an evening New Years Eve performance also captured on DVD, note the sudden rapid acceleration in final bars 2:40 ala Furtwangler.....


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## Brahmsianhorn

I own dozens of recordings, but my "A" list for this symphony in order is:

Furtwängler (3/22/42) (Tahra, Music & Arts, Pristine, Archipel, Andromeda) 
Furtwängler (7/29/51) (Tahra, Orfeo, EMI)
Furtwängler (8/22/54) (Audite, Tahra, Pristine, Music & Arts, Andromeda)
Klemperer (1961) (Testament BBC)
Klemperer (1957) (Testament)
Fricsay (DG)
Bernstein (1979) (DG)
Böhm (1972) (DG)
Karajan (1976) (DG)
Bernstein (1989) (DG)
Solti (1972) (Decca)


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## DarkAngel

BH do I dare ask (I think I know the answer) do you have the new Furtwangler boxset 1939-45 radio recordings (using original tape masters) is this now the best sound B9 of that era.....


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## SixFootScowl

Larkenfield said:


> "*Blomstedt / Dresden (great performance from that super cycle).*" I entirely agree. Wonderful live performance with a great orchestra. Ken Burns used this in his Frank Lloyd Wright documentary. It's nice to hear different recordings but I feel thot only one great one is required.


One of my favorites! *Brilliant has a budget release of it too*.


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## Brahmsianhorn

DarkAngel said:


> BH do I dare ask (I think I know the answer) do you have the new Furtwangler boxset 1939-45 radio recordings (using original tape masters) is this now the best sound B9 of that era.....


I own it, yes. The sound is more present and clear. I do still like the Tahra. Whatever they did to the sound, it has more opulence than other masters.


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## Merl

Fritz Kobus said:


> One of my favorites! *Brilliant has a budget release of it too*.


You can pick up Blomstedt's Box of Beethoven symphonies on Brilliant (wow check that alliteration) for a fiver over on Ebay. If you aint got it then buy it. Its still my favourite moderate paced Beethoven cycle. The playing of those Dresdeners is immense.


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## Bourdon

I'm really surprised that this one is so neglected


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## Merl

Bourdon said:


> I'm really surprised that this one is so neglected


Agreed, it's a very good one. Maybe because theres so many great recordings we're spolied for choice.


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## Guest

Bourdon said:


> I'm really surprised that this one is so neglected


I don't know that particular recording. But is it really surprising to you? With so many recordings, there are certainly going to be lovers of any given recording, but with so many excellent recordings available, it really has to be a standout.


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## jegreenwood

Merl said:


> Agreed, it's a very good one. Maybe because theres so many great recordings we're spolied for choice.


When I first started with classical music in the 70's, I recall reading raves about Schmidt-Isserstedt's 9th (and sometimes his whole cycle). I never owned it (or even heard it) until recently when I picked up the Decca Analogue box. I've now listened to it - once. I need to return to it.


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## wkasimer

DrMike said:


> I don't know that particular recording. But is it really surprising to you? With so many recordings, there are certainly going to be lovers of any given recording, but with so many excellent recordings available, it really has to be a standout.


I think that the Schmidt-Isserstedt *is* a standout - superb playing, excellent conducting, fine analogue sound, and what is probably the best solo quartet on records. The reason why no one mentions it is that it's been OOP for a couple of decades. It was issued in one of Decca's early midprice series early in the CD era...









...and then buried in a box of Schmidt-Isserstedt's Beethoven (symphonies and concertos), which went out of print quickly and desperately needs reissue:









At this point, it's probably easiest to buy the Japanese issue:


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## Guest

I'm not debating the merits of the recording - I haven't heard it. But this group is full of people who hunt down and procure OOP recordings (or who have been collecting classical music long enough that they have the originals). I don't know what determines which albums get removed from the distribution by a record company, but I assume sales are a significant part of the decision making.


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## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> When I first started with classical music in the 70's, I recall reading raves about Schmidt-Isserstedt's 9th (and sometimes his whole cycle). I never owned it (or even heard it) until recently when I picked up the Decca Analogue box. I've now listened to it - once. I need to return to it.


I found the cycle dreary, leaden. Sold it for a pittance, then it went out of print and would fetch a kings ransom. My main regret is that after selling it I noticed there was a Szeryng recording in there that I never listened to. Grrr.


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## jegreenwood

wkasimer said:


> I think that the Schmidt-Isserstedt *is* a standout - superb playing, excellent conducting, fine analogue sound, and what is probably the best solo quartet on records. The reason why no one mentions it is that it's been OOP for a couple of decades. It was issued in one of Decca's early midprice series early in the CD era...
> 
> ...and then buried in a box of Schmidt-Isserstedt's Beethoven (symphonies and concertos), which went out of print quickly and desperately needs reissue:
> 
> At this point, it's probably easiest to buy the Japanese issue:


Tidal seems to have the entire cycle (and more including the Szeryng) on the Mangora [?] label. Obviously suspect, but you might want to check it out. Or you can stream the 9th from the Decca Analogue box. I assume you can find it on Spotify as well.

Presto has the Decca Analogue box (50 discs) available for $64.50 (for FLAC - MP3 is $50). Thinking I should post it in the great values thread.

Edit - on close examination Presto has broken the 50 disc set into two parts - each $64.50.


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## Merl

Baron Scarpia said:


> I found the cycle dreary, leaden. Sold it for a pittance, then it went out of print and would fetch a kings ransom. My main regret is that after selling it I noticed there was a Szeryng recording in there that I never listened to. Grrr.


I largely agree that for the most part the Schmidt-Isserstedt cycle is pretty run of the mill but the 9th is very good. Tbh ive not listened to the rest in a while.


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## Guest

Merl said:


> I largely agree that for the most part the Schmidt-Isserstedt cycle is pretty run of the mill but the 9th is very good. Tbh ive not listened to the rest in a while.


I'm not a fan of the ninth, I probably didn't listen to it. I remember being very unimpressed with the 5th and 7th.


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## SixFootScowl

*Review of this one*.










There are others.


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## Aerobat

I have several versions, but I think my favourite at the moment is this one:









It is certainly unconventional in parts, but I find the finale to be very expressive and almost majestic in presentation. This is probably the recording that I listen to more than any of the others, probably due to the more expressive nature of this performance, and that each movement appears somehow more complete than in any other 9th that I've got.


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## haziz

I prefer Ferenc Fricsay's 1957 recording with the Berlin PO, but would also be quite happy with Karajan's 1962 recording with the same orchestra.


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## SixFootScowl

SixFootScowl said:


> *Review of this one*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There are others.*


Such as this one:


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## bavlf

Großer Musikvereinssaal, Wien 1947-12-14








Recorded at the 1996 Salzburg Easter Festival. Recorded in Großes Festspielhaus, Salzburg April 2 and 4-6, 1996


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## starthrower

I have some 9ths I've yet to listen to since I bought the cycles including Bohm, Monteux, and Skrowaczewski. I need to rectify this. The last one I listened to was Norrington / London Classical Players which is different than what I'm used to because it's a HIP performance. It was just okay but nothing great.


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## Kiki

I'm really impressed by Manfred Honeck's latest installment - the Ninth. Honeck's Beethoven is not HIP, but it's faster and more articulated than some HIPs. More importantly, the whole symphony comes, and stays, alive from start to finish. His idiosyncrasy in pounding notes and phrases is present throughout, but I appreciate that his "way of things" is consistent, and that makes it sound refreshing and interesting. Is this kind of thing called, ahem, a "vision"? :lol: Obviously this won't appeal to everybody's taste though.

A certain critic called it narcissistic. Interestingly some think of this critic as narcissistic in general. He certainly reacted ferociously to Honeck's idiosyncrasy. Judge it for yourself.

I generally don't appreciate the house sound of Reference Recordings - overly processed and sweetened (probably aiming at the audiophile market?). These traits are still present, but not as exaggerated as in, say, Eiji Oue's Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances, so this Honeck Ninth is a lot more palatable to listen to. It also sounds like a meticulously miked and balanced studio recording, even though it is claimed to be live, which is not a bad thing.


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## Animal the Drummer

Interesting. One or two here and elsewhere have lauded Honeck's 5th and rated it more highly than Kleiber's reference recording. The 9th isn't a piece I've ever grown to love, though I do admire it, so maybe this is one I should try.


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## Merl

Much as I love Honeck's 3rd, 5th and 7th (which are sublime - his 5/7 disc is a personal fave) I don't rate this 9th. As I said in the Current Listening thread last week, find it terribly contrived, overtly fussy and mannered. I was expecting great things from this one but think he's dropped the ball here. This is one occasion where a certain critic called it right, IMO. I will be interested to hear the remainder of his cycle even though I'm disappointed with this one. Different strokes and all that.


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## Rach Man

Kiki said:


> I'm really impressed by Manfred Honeck's latest installment - the Ninth. Honeck's Beethoven is not HIP, but it's faster and more articulated than some HIPs. More importantly, the whole symphony comes, and stays, alive from start to finish. His idiosyncrasy in pounding notes and phrases is present throughout, but I appreciate that his "way of things" is consistent, and that makes it sound refreshing and interesting. Is this kind of thing called, ahem, a "vision"? :lol: Obviously this won't appeal to everybody's taste though.
> 
> A certain critic called it narcissistic. Interestingly some think of this critic as narcissistic in general. He certainly reacted ferociously to Honeck's idiosyncrasy. Judge it for yourself.
> 
> I generally don't appreciate the house sound of Reference Recordings - overly processed and sweetened (probably aiming at the audiophile market?). These traits are still present, but not as exaggerated as in, say, Eiji Oue's Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances, so this Honeck Ninth is a lot more palatable to listen to. It also sounds like a meticulously miked and balanced studio recording, even though it is claimed to be live, which is not a bad thing.


I have to agree with you. I received my CD yesterday and I think that this performance is spectacular, start to finish.


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