# Film Composers and the devastating impact of the DAW and the internet



## mikeh375

Depressing indeed....

The democratising of music making thanks to the DAW along with unscrupulous dealings and the internet, has cheapened composing in media. Viable and survivable careers for composers in media have been almost impossible for many years now. Add to this the fact that many (probably hundreds of thousands), think they can make it in the industry and are willing to work for absolutely no money in order to get a foothold.

Duplicitous producers (and sadly some named composers) prey on this desperation and general cheapening of skill and often play composers demos/work off against one another by insisting on re-writes or bartering down agreed fees to the point where the cost of producing and mixing the music is more expensive than the fee.

I've experienced unconscionable behaviour myself in my time in media from producers and agencies and it is not nice at all. I survived and had a viable career, but then again I was one of those composers who could and did write and arrange their own music. I remember the introduction of the DAW and the internet and the upheaval it created, but no-one saw the long term implications at the time, not even EMI who naively told their lawers to "deal with it".

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/the-ugly-truth-of-how-movie-scores-are-made


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## pianozach

Not surprising.

The Music Industry in general has had some evolution pains lately as well. With the advent of digital music, and before that, MTV, "Albums" are often having a difficult time being sold, as most folks either stream music or buy singles. 

But a lot of folks just don't buy songs OR albums for their music library; they purchase a "service" that provides them music.


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## Forster

An interesting article, though as pianozach explains in another thread, it was always thus, with a music department whose head might get the credit, whether they wrote the score or not.

It also seems to be the dominant approach to film and TV production in other departments. For example, script-writing teams seem to get larger as shows become more complex.

Oddly, given the issue about giving people credit for their hidden contribution, film credits get longer - especially where there have been umpteen effects companies - even to the extent of production babies getting a mention!


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## mikeh375

Credit stealing is definitely a thing Forster but as you know, prior to the digital age film scores were written mainly by individuals. It has always been necessary to have on board orchestrators and copyists for practical reasons mostly deadline related, but the actual composing was mainly down to one individual. 

I don't object in the slightest to the way scores are written and produced today btw, assuming fairness to those involved. This is because the craft as it is today needs to be able to draw on an inexhaustible wealth of sound, technology and attitude. For these reasons I admire the likes of Zimmer with his technological, atelier like approach which has taken scoring away from the more traditional approaches one hears with Williams. 

Talking of credit stealing, what still pissesses me off is seeing a 'music supervisor' credit on screen before the composer credit....ggrrrrr. I still can't understand how basically making a few calls here and there could trump the stress, sweat, tears, uncertainty, reputational jeopardy, (alcohol/coffee) and long hours required to produce a score.


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## Chibi Ubu

I read the Vanity Fair article, & I understand the issue. It is deplorable, not only for composers, but for the masses trying to make livings in today's business climate. What I don't get is the reference to the DAW. Are you referring to this google response?

"A digital audio workstation (DAW) is music production software that allows users to record audio on a personal computer. DAW software works on both the Mac and Windows operating systems. It is used for audio recording, audio editing, MIDI editing, mixing, and mastering, among other functions"

Color me dumb, but I don't get the fit. Please help me understand!


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## HansZimmer

Chibi Ubu said:


> I read the Vanity Fair article, & I understand the issue. It is deplorable, not only for composers, but for the masses trying to make livings in today's business climate. What I don't get is the reference to the DAW. Are you referring to this google response?
> 
> "A digital audio workstation (DAW) is music production software that allows users to record audio on a personal computer. DAW software works on both the Mac and Windows operating systems. It is used for audio recording, audio editing, MIDI editing, mixing, and mastering, among other functions"
> 
> Color me dumb, but I don't get the fit. Please help me understand!


What mike375 is saying is that with the DAW you can compose music with software, so it makes things easier for composers. Composing without those modern instruments was more difficult.

So, for example Hans Zimmer composes his music with the DAW and he gets a draft. Then he gives his draft to the orchestra and they know what do they have to play. 
The old fashioned composer works directly with the orchestra to compose.


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## mikeh375

HansZimmer said:


> What mike375 is saying is that with the DAW you can compose music with software, so it makes things easier for composers. Composing without those modern instruments was more difficult.
> 
> *So, for example Hans Zimmer composes his music with the DAW and he gets a draft. Then he gives his draft to the orchestra and they know what do they have to play*.
> The old fashioned composer works directly with the orchestra to compose.


Not quite HZ. The draft will sometimes be a well produced recording of a sample based rendition if it is orchestral. This will then be handed to an orchestrator/copyist (or a team of them), along with any mid notation etc. to prepare for the live session. Of course it is never so clear cut as this. For example, composers can mix samples with live players to bolster sound if the budget gets hacked (as it often does when post production drags on), or if they simply just want to for musical reasons. In essence though, a demo is done within the DAW and once approved by the director and producer(s), then moves onto the next stage (orchestration/parts) on the way to a live recording.
BTW, it's not considered "old fashioned" to work directly to a score...it's still the best way for orchestral music whether a DAW is used or not..


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