# Elliott Carter String Quartets: Juilliard and Arditti



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

Greetings, Carteristas.

I own both cycles mentioned in the thread title. I think I prefer the Juilliard version, which is surprising to me as I usually gravitate to Arditti versions of other quartets. I think this is because I'm hearing the Juilliard readings as more linear, whereas I'm hearing the Arditti as more vertical; more emphasis on fragmentation of the line and structure. Not that I don't like that; it's wondrous to hear such a different take on these modern masterpieces. 

I think (totally my opinion here) that the linearity serves Carter's work well in this instance, bringing a kind of cohesion and clarity to these dense pieces.

But this isn't about which recording is "best" or the "greatest." Both are equally valid, and as we know, in matters of art, there is never a best anything.

If you have both, what are your thoughts? Or, if there are other recordings of the Carter quartets that you prefer, please share.

TIA,
-09


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Check out the Pacifica Quartet.


----------



## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Omicron9 said:


> I think (totally my opinion here) that the linearity serves Carter's work well in this instance, bringing a kind of cohesion and clarity to these dense pieces.


Yes--with a work like the 2nd Quartet, anyway, a "vertical" approach would totally miss the point of the work, or at least what Carter said was the point of the work. Not that we're limited to the composer's word, but the 2nd Quartet does seem like it would suffer from a performance that did not treat the four voices of the ensemble as independent lines.


----------



## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

I had the great pleasure of hearing the Pacifica perform all six in one remarkable marathon recital. The composer himself was in attendance. David Finckel, former cellist of the Emerson SQ, was seated immediately behind me, and during the intermission, he described the Pacifica's performance as "[email protected]#$%ing believable". I then bought the Naxos CDs which are very good, but some of the impact of the live performance is lost, I think due to sound engineering issues.


----------



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

fluteman said:


> I had the great pleasure of hearing the Pacifica perform all six in one remarkable marathon recital. The composer himself was in attendance. ......


More jealous I could not be.


----------



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

arpeggio said:


> Check out the Pacifica Quartet.


Thanks for the suggestion; I'm not familiar with them, but will mosey over to amazon right now.


----------



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

Eschbeg said:


> Yes--with a work like the 2nd Quartet, anyway, a "vertical" approach would totally miss the point of the work, or at least what Carter said was the point of the work. Not that we're limited to the composer's word, but the 2nd Quartet does seem like it would suffer from a performance that did not treat the four voices of the ensemble as independent lines.


Again, just my opinion: I wouldn't go so far as to say the performance suffers due to the vertical approach. I'm still digging it, as it brings another view of these pieces, and this is especially true with No. 2. My preference is certainly Juilliard's more linear reading. I think their approach fits these pieces well and is what is needed. But I wouldn't want Arditti to copy this, and find it refreshing and admirable that they put their own take on these pieces, as well they should. I'd strongly recommend both versions to Carter fans.

As an aside: I think the Carter quartets are akin to Ives 4. I have all the recordings of Ives 4 I can find (only 2 or 3, I think?). It such a massively dense work that with each recording/performance, something new/different is revealed.


----------



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're back from amazon. Just bought the two Pacifica CDs. Thanks all for the recommendation; can't wait to check it out. :tiphat:


----------



## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Omicron9 said:


> AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're back from amazon. Just bought the two Pacifica CDs. Thanks all for the recommendation; can't wait to check it out. :tiphat:


If you have spotify you can check them out.


----------



## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> If you have spotify you can check them out.


Thanks. I can also listen on amazon until the CDs arrive.


----------



## ahinton (Nov 8, 2016)

fluteman said:


> I had the great pleasure of hearing the Pacifica perform all six in one remarkable marathon recital.


But there are only five! (unless they also played the 1943 Elegy which is a quartet arrangement of what was originally a piece for cello and piano). I do remember the Pacifica doing this, though - what a challenge! I wish that I could have been there.


----------



## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Eschbeg said:


> Yes--with a work like the 2nd Quartet, anyway, a "vertical" approach would totally miss the point of the work, or at least what Carter said was the point of the work. Not that we're limited to the composer's word, but the 2nd Quartet does seem like it would suffer from a performance that did not treat the four voices of the ensemble as independent lines.


FWIW, at the recital I attended where they performed all six Carter string quartets, the Pacifica Quartet sat very far apart for the 2nd, but huddled very close together for the 5th and 6th.


----------



## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

ahinton said:


> But there are only five! (unless they also played the 1943 Elegy which is a quartet arrangement of what was originally a piece for cello and piano). I do remember the Pacifica doing this, though - what a challenge! I wish that I could have been there.


Yes, that's right, of course. Serves me right for trying to converse here during the work day while I'm on hold on the phone!


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Omicron9 said:


> If you have both, what are your thoughts? Or, if there are other recordings of the Carter quartets that you prefer, please share.
> 
> TIA,
> -09


The only ones I've really explored are the 3rd and 4th. I thought The Composers Quartet were very good, the premier in New York of 4 in 1986, and an early 3 from Juilliard from 1974 - I can PM you the files of these if you want, and they're not otherwise available. Never got into the later Juilliard or Arditti really.


----------



## ahinton (Nov 8, 2016)

The one that I've listened by far the most often is the third. I don't ever plan to listen to it again, as some 50 hearings have left me feeling less familiar with it than I was when I'd first heard it. My favourite among them is the extraordinary first, followed by the fifth, then the second, then the fourth but the third remains a closed book to me despite my best efforts.


----------



## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

fluteman said:


> FWIW, at the recital I attended where they performed all six Carter string quartets, the Pacifica Quartet sat very far apart for the 2nd


Yes, that's the way it's usually done because it's how Carter suggests doing it in the performance notes accompanying the score. Here's an excerpt: "each instrument must for the most part maintain a slightly different character of playing from the others. This is indicated to a certain extent in the parts. To bring these differences clearly to the listener's attention, the performers may be more widely spaced than usual on the stage so that each is definitely separated from the others in space as well as in character, although this is not necessary."


----------

