# Best and Worst Recordings: Walter



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Bruno Walter is one of those conductors who rarely makes a misstep, and yet he rarely knocks my socks off either. Maybe because most of his recording output is from his final years. One Walter recording that does blow me away is his 1939 live Mahler 1st with the NBC SO. It is riveting from beginning to end and far and away the best recording of the work I have yet heard. His Missa Solemnis is also high octane and keeps my attention in a work that has mostly eluded my interest.

DLVDE and Walkure Act 1 of course are classics of the gramophone that must be on this list. For me the live alternate Ferrier/Patzak DLVDE is better than the studio, even curiously sounds more natural. The 4th with VPO/Guden that it's paired with on Andromeda is also a great one.

And of course the joyful Pastorale is a rightful classic (unless you only care about the storm).


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, Walter has (for my money) the finest recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th symphonies in his Columbia stereo cycle. That ain't chopped liver!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Well, Walter has (for my money) the finest recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th symphonies in his Columbia stereo cycle. That ain't chopped liver!


Agree they are the most eloquent. Too bad he doesn't have an exposition repeat for the 4th, which is crucial to me. Klemperer's is my go-to recording.

Obviously Walter was unique with Mozart. His Symphony No. 39 is heaven. Don't like his Brahms' symphonies.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Walter's outstanding recordings with the CSO of the Mahler Symphony No. 1 and 2 are great introductions to the composer, whom he knew personally, and I wouldn't miss hearing his outstanding performance of the 9th. Hearing it was a monumental experience for me... My favorites of his Beethoven CSO cycle are, surprisingly, No. 1. and No. 2, because of the great freshness and equal weight that he gives them compared to Beethoven's more famous later ones, the great attention he gives them, and to me, his virtually perfect recordings of No. 4 and 7... I would describe his style as being more balanced, classical and philosophical as a conductor, including in Beethoven, rather than an over-emphasis on its explosiveness. I much prefer his approach because Beethoven doesn't come across as a barbarian but the symphonies still remain rhythmically vital and alive... I like Walter's refinements as a conductor. One gets mature seasoned performances, the real thing, without the ego, exaggerations, and the falsity. His later recordings have a geniality that are in contrast with the energetic, intense and mercurial performances of earlier decades... His recording career extended from 1900 to 1961. Think of it: he made it through all the important eras of the recording process and made hundreds of them... His sparkling recording of Mozart's Eine kleine Nachtmusik is one of my favorites and never fails to uplift the spirit:


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Well, Walter has (for my money) the finest recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th symphonies in his Columbia stereo cycle. That ain't chopped liver!


Definitely agree, which is why the Pastorale made my Best list.  In my estimation it is the best modern recording, followed closely by Klemperer and Bohm. The 4th is also a great one, though I slightly prefer Karajan and Klemperer who give it a bit more weight.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Phil loves classical said:


> Agree they are the most eloquent. Too bad he doesn't have an exposition repeat for the 4th, which is crucial to me.


Walter's 4th is 31:37 even without the repeat, which is pushing an LP side rather too hard already! Many exposition repeats were omitted in pre-CD days due to limitations of the media.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2019)

KenOC said:


> Well, Walter has (for my money) the finest recordings of Beethoven's *4th and 6th* symphonies in his Columbia stereo cycle. That ain't chopped liver!


What a coincidence. Walter's 4th and 6th Beethoven symphonies were my first choices as set out in this post # 36 on 13 June:

Beethoven - Best Performances / Recordings


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Had the conductor made only this one recording









I would still worship at the shrine of Bruno Walter.

Fortunately for us all he has recorded quite a discography. I have the pleasure of having the SONY 39-CD Limited Deluxe Edition of _Bruno Walter The Edition_ in my collection:















As the hype sticker that was on the front of the box (when the set was still in shrinkwrap) proclaims: "Includes Bruno Walter's legendary recordings of the complete BEETHOVEN AND BRAHMS SYMPHONIES Plus famous symphonies and works by Bruckner, Mahler, Mozart, Schubert, Dvořák and many others."

Enough music in this box to slake the thirst of all but the most hardcore Bruno fan. Among the "other" selections of note are Samuel Barber's Symphony No. 1, four late Haydn symphonies, Smetana's _The Moldau_, and Schumann's Symphony No. 3 and Piano Concerto in A Minor, all favorites of mine. The accompanying book is a fine feature, too.

Heck! The guy knew Mahler! Personally! What more does one need to know?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The 1938 Mahler 9th with VPO, of course - a fascinating document, and illustrating the more temperamental approach in his earlier recordings.









The Brahms Concerto 1 with Horowitz/CtGebouw from 1936 is the most ecstatic and feverish recording of that work. Period. When you've heard it, you know it. But it has a bigger cut than the Mahler above (Sadly, the accompanying Horowitz/Toscanini performance of the Brahms work has barely audible sound quality).


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

^ 
I have a love/hate relationship with that Mahler 9th. It is wonderfully intense. But the final movement is one of my favorites in all symphonic music, and he clips the end off so quickly whereas Barbirolli and Karajan allow us to relish in it. Still a great recording and invaluable document though.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> The 1938 Mahler 9th with VPO, of course - a fascinating document, and illustrating the more temperamental approach in his earlier recordings.
> 
> View attachment 121817


Didn't he talk it down? (maybe to sell more of his US LPs)


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> Didn't he talk it down? (maybe to sell more of his US LPs)


Maybe. Obviously, it's different from his later recording, which also represents an improvement in sound.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

2 crackers. The Mahler is one of the greatest discs in the Mahler catalogue, for me.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is my favourite recording by him






and if you can stomach Ferrier's voice this is OK


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I had an old disc of Walter's Beethoven 1 and 5 with the NYPO which are somewhat old fashioned but really gripping. Limited sound of course. The famous Walkure act 1 with Melchior is a must for Wagnerians as is the Lied von der Erde with Ferrier for Mahlerians. Those who are picky about such things will have to swallow the fact that most of the VPO in the Lied recording to a greater or lesser extent collaborated with the Nazis (the first horn was an active Nazi official) but the jewish Walter didn't appear to mind.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> Had the conductor made only this one recording
> 
> View attachment 121812
> 
> ...


yup, great performance...my introduction to Mahler


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

After many years, Walter's Brahms sets---with the New York Philharmonic _and_ the Columbia Symphony are still my favorites along with Klemperer/Philharmonia.


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## staxomega (Oct 17, 2011)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> ^
> I have a love/hate relationship with that Mahler 9th. It is wonderfully intense. But the final movement is one of my favorites in all symphonic music, and he clips the end off so quickly whereas Barbirolli and Karajan allow us to relish in it. Still a great recording and invaluable document though.


Which recordings with Barbirolli and Karajan? I have the BBC recording with Barbirolli and ranks among the best I've heard.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

staxomega said:


> Which recordings with Barbirolli and Karajan? I have the BBC recording with Barbirolli and ranks among the best I've heard.


I am not familiar with a BBC Barbirolli recording. The new Japanese EMI remastering with BPO in studio sounds excellent and is my top choice for modern sound.

But my top Mahler 9th overall is his live 1960 RAI recording. The only other Barbirolli I know of is an early 60s NYPO performance.

Just listen to this coda from 17:00 to the end. Absolutely sublime. This is the passage that Walter in all his recordings inexplicably rushes towards the conclusion.


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## staxomega (Oct 17, 2011)

The heat is frying my brain, that BBC recording was for Mahler's 7th 

Which Karajan recording do you like?


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

staxomega said:


> The heat is frying my brain, that BBC recording was for Mahler's 7th
> 
> Which Karajan recording do you like?


Oh the 1982 live for sure. Interpretively very much to my liking, and undoubtably impressive in climaxes. But in the great adagio Karajan is missing Barbirolli's heart. I also like the 1938 Walter and the Klemperer, one of Otto's best Mahler recordings and in great sound.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Favorite Walter, favorite Brahms 2 period. No one has ever made such an electrifying recording of the finale. It's blazes hot. There's not a living conductor who can come close. What was his magic? The Columbia Symphony remake is excellent, too, but doesn't reach the same level of incandescence.








His worst: Berlioz was just not his strong point.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

............Cancelled...........


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

*Best and Worst Recordings: Walter *

Seems like a lot to try and find the "worst" recording of Bruno Walter. Don't recall anything by him I thought bad though he never much registered with me. All his stereo recordings came from the end of his career.

He was Mahler's disciple and his earlier Mahler -- such as those recordings that came out on Andante from German or Viennese radio broadcasts -- showed a much different, more fiery, conductor than his later recordings.

The recording I most enjoyed aside from Beethoven 6 was Haydn Symphonies 100 and 102...but the thing I am most thankful for from Bruno Walter was training Maurice Abravanel who became one of my favorite conductors.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Merl said:


> 2 crackers. The Mahler is one of the greatest discs in the Mahler catalogue, for me.
> 
> View attachment 121824
> 
> ...


Agreed - for me the earlier New York Brahms set has a bit more life about it than the CSO remakes.
I also like his way with Mozart for a traditional choice I prefer him to Bohm.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

This has an October 18, 2019 release date...









Bruno Walter - The Complete Columbia Album Collection

The price will surely drop by at least 20 - 25% by the release date.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...olumbia-album-collection/hnum/8933427?lang=en


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Been seriously considering getting his Beethoven cycle on Sony, on the strength of his excellent Pastorale... not that I need any more Beethoven... I am speaking of course about the Columbia Symphony Orchestra recordings. I'm curious, opinions about the remainder of the cycle? Walter stands as one of the all-time great conductors, I think. 

Eventually, I'll be getting his Mahler 1 and 2, possibly the Sony box set as well... clearly an essential conductor for understanding Mahler, alongside Klemperer.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Been seriously considering getting his Beethoven cycle on Sony, on the strength of his excellent Pastorale... not that I need any more Beethoven... I am speaking of course about the Columbia Symphony Orchestra recordings. I'm curious, opinions about the remainder of the cycle? Walter stands as one of the all-time great conductors, I think.
> 
> Eventually, I'll be getting his Mahler 1 and 2, possibly the Sony box set as well... clearly an essential conductor for understanding Mahler, alongside Klemperer.


1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 are up there with the best. That actually sums up late Walter, because if you notice the four missing are the four most dramatic, 3,5,7,9.

However, 5 and 7 are actually pretty good if not among the best. There is a special warmth and singing quality that Walter brings to everything. 3 is not bad, but he made much better earlier live recordings. This is especially the case with the 9th. No match for the drama of his live 40s version.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I talked in the Klemperer thread about how I think his Brahms Requiem is overrated. The exact opposite with Walter. I think it is one of the most gripping recordings ever, and yet you rarely hear it mentioned.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Walter's ColSO recording of LvB #7 is really excellent, one of the best...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Which of Bruno Walter's recordings of Das Lied von der Erde is the best?










or










... or another?

I owe it to myself to get at least one of them. The guy premièred this great work, and I'd be curious to hear his interpretations.

I recently (yesterday) picked up the Sony 2CD with his Mahler 1 and 2, and the Wayfarer songs with Mildred Miller. I still have yet to hear the Resurrection, but the rest of it is very, very good stuff!!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

The Ferrier one is a standard recommendation, a great account IMO. I love it but have quite a number of DLVDE recordings that I love! But some people are not fans of Ferrier. I didn't know about the other recording but Walter's Mahler became smoother as he aged.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

That’s the one I was leaning toward. Just curiosity at this point. I don’t think I will be getting any new Das Lied recording for at least a few months unless I stumble upon one.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> That's the one I was leaning toward. Just curiosity at this point. I don't think I will be getting any new Das Lied recording for at least a few months unless I stumble upon one.


Because I tend to be contrary, I'll recommend a different one, the recording that I prefer to both that flamencosketches recommended:

















It's from 1936, so the sound isn't very modern, but I think that Thorborg and Kullman are the best soloists that Walter had for any of his recordings.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

flamencosketches said:


> Which of Bruno Walter's recordings of Das Lied von der Erde is the best?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Walter's Mahler is outstanding - I go for the later DLvDE, with NYPO....orchestra work is superb - esp the big oboe solos [H. Gomberg] - major league stuff....His Mahler 1 [ColSO] and 2 [NYPO] are classics as well...
Walter Mahler 2 was my introduction to Mahler....


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

The Ferrier/Patzak is the one to get, but I'll say again that the live recording is not only the better performance over the studio but even has more natural sound.

You can find it on Tahra in there incarnations:



















OR, if you want a really fantastic coupling, get this:


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## hoodjem (Feb 23, 2019)

I find that the older I get, the more I appreciate Bruno Walter. When I was in college I opted for Toscanini, but now I find those recordings harried and forced.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

hoodjem said:


> I find that the older I get, the more I appreciate Bruno Walter. When I was in college I opted for Toscanini, but now I find those recordings harried and forced.


Same here. Years ago I really didn't care for his Beethoven cycle, but now I "get it". It's a wonderful, musical set. The stereo Brahms symphonies are superb, but the mono from NY are tremendously exciting. I wish he had lived a bit longer - I wish he had time to record the Mahler 3rd. There are still some Toscanini recordings I value highly, and the playing he got out of orchestras was amazing. Like Furtwangler, some people are fanatical about Toscanini - I'm not one of them. But damn, that New World Symphony is amazing!


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I had an old disc of Walter's Beethoven 1 and 5 with the NYPO which are somewhat old fashioned but really gripping. Limited sound of course. The famous Walkure act 1 with Melchior is a must for Wagnerians as is the Lied von der Erde with Ferrier for Mahlerians. Those who are picky about such things will have to swallow the fact that most of the VPO in the Lied recording to a greater or lesser extent collaborated with the Nazis (the first horn was an active Nazi official) but the jewish Walter didn't appear to mind.


Walter converted to Christianity and was by all accounts a fervid exponent of his new faith


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Larkenfield said:


> Walter's outstanding recordings with the CSO of the Mahler Symphony No. 1 and 2 are great introductions to the composer, whom he knew personally, and I wouldn't miss hearing his outstanding performance of the 9th. Hearing it was a monumental experience for me... My favorites of his Beethoven CSO cycle are, surprisingly, No. 1. and No. 2, because of the great freshness and equal weight that he gives them compared to Beethoven's more famous later ones, the great attention he gives them, and to me, his virtually perfect recordings of No. 4 and 7... I would describe his style as being more balanced, classical and philosophical as a conductor, including in Beethoven, rather than an over-emphasis on its explosiveness. I much prefer his approach because Beethoven doesn't come across as a barbarian but the symphonies still remain rhythmically vital and alive... I like Walter's refinements as a conductor. One gets mature seasoned performances, the real thing, without the ego, exaggerations, and the falsity. His later recordings have a geniality that are in contrast with the energetic, intense and mercurial performances of earlier decades... His recording career extended from 1900 to 1961. Think of it: he made it through all the important eras of the recording process and made hundreds of them... His sparkling recording of Mozart's Eine kleine Nachtmusik is one of my favorites and never fails to uplift the spirit:


Agree except the Mahler 1&2 were with the NY Phil, not the Columbia SO


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't know anything about Walter, if his other stuff is like this he's overrated by yous guys.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Triplets said:


> Agree except the Mahler 1&2 were with the NY Phil, not the Columbia SO


Mahler 2 and DLvDE were performed with NYPO...#1 with Columbia [West Coast] SO.


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## hoodjem (Feb 23, 2019)

Bruckner 4th symphony.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Heck148 said:


> Mahler 2 and DLvDE were performed with NYPO...#1 with Columbia [West Coast] SO.


Hmm, I wonder why some recordings of Das Lied attribute it to the Columbia SO. I was under the impression that's who it was until I saw the original jacket.

I wanted to bump this thread to see if there's any new discussion to be had about Walter's great recordings. I've been enjoying certain records of his Mahler and Mozart. He excels in these two quite different composers.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I have not heard enough of his pre-stereo recordings to judge his conducting before he became known for his genial warmth in the late Columbia recordings. But undoubtedly a great conductor with lots to say about all sorts of repertoire. The highest praise he garners in my mind is the King of Mozart Conductors. To my ears, nobody made Mozart's symphonies sound so fun, relaxed, improvisatory, warm, inviting, dramatic, and playful; all while avoiding the elephantine heaviness of some other "old-school" Mozartians like Bohm. Both the mono NY (I think) and stereo sets of late symphonies are fantastic. Of course his famous Beethoven 6 is rightly a classic, mainly due to his exquisite sensitivity of phrasing throughout (which is a quality I notice in all his performances). The rest of his Beethoven symphonies are perhaps a bit too lightweight but very much worth a listen. Ones I don't care too much for are the stereo Mahler 1 and 2; which underplay the struggle and expression of Mahler's vision even if everything is done immaculately. But then again, he was a much different conductor in the '30's and '40's. I have heard parts of his legendary Walkure Act I, and his conducting in the opening "storm" prelude is unbelievably intense.

Edit: Also there is his Brahms; absolutely one of my 3 favorite cycles. His 3rd is simply amazing, with a third movement that is actually _Poco Allegretto_!!


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## perdido34 (Mar 11, 2015)

Walter's performance of Mahler 1 with NBC Symphony is fiery and not at all like the stereo version. Ditto his live performance of Mahler 2 with the Vienna Phil.


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## Helgi (Dec 27, 2019)

I love his Brahms with the NYPO from the 1950s. Such energy!


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

This is likely a different Bruno Walter conducting Mahler than your know ...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

larold said:


> This is likely a different Bruno Walter conducting Mahler than your know ...
> 
> View attachment 133978


I have the Ferrier/Patzak Das Lied with the VPO on Decca, is this a different recording of it?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Thoughts on Walter’s Bruckner? It looks like I will be winning an auction which contains CDs of his Bruckner 7 and 8 with the Columbia SO.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

Well, flamenco, hope you WIN that auction, w/Walter, in Bruckner 7 & 8! I'm sure that some of us recommend others of Walter's generation - specifically, Furtwangler ... or maybe Horenstein, or Bohm. I've LONG-had some reservations about Walter's approach, in many musics/compositions, but maybe you (and/or others) don't share these. ... Well, of course, we could always SWITCH to probably Walter's greatest interpretation - the recently-mentioned one, in Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, with the wondrous Kathleen Ferrier.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

89Koechel said:


> Well, flamenco, hope you WIN that auction, w/Walter, in Bruckner 7 & 8! I'm sure that some of us recommend others of Walter's generation - specifically, Furtwangler ... or maybe Horenstein, or Bohm. I've LONG-had some reservations about Walter's approach, in many musics/compositions, but maybe you (and/or others) don't share these. ... Well, of course, we could always SWITCH to probably Walter's greatest interpretation - the recently-mentioned one, in Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, with the wondrous Kathleen Ferrier.


Well I won, but I ended up going way higher than I wanted to! :lol: In addition to the Bruckner it includes some Dvorak, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven & Schumann, a total of 9 CDs. Should be worthy listening I think...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

As young almost teen, I liked CM, though my knowledge of the repertoire was limited. I at least thought I had heard of all of the "great composers." I was playing chess (badly) with a friend who had just purchased a Bruno Walter demo disc that Columbia put out for $1.50 or so (short pieces like Egmont Overture, and excerpts). Suddenly, in the middle of side two, the laendler from Mahler's first came on. Our ears perked up, we played it again, and yet a third time. Neither of us had ever heard anything like it - tuneful, dramatic - nor had we ever heard of Mahler. I still treasure that performance.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

That's wonderful, MarkW! ... When I was a fledgling child/teenager (about 50+ years ago!) I was interested in chess, also. Mahler has been an interested of our grown-child era (or grown teenagers' era) ever since then. There should be no DOUBT that Bruno Walter contributed a number of fine recordings/interpretations of the past ... and we shouldn't look much-FURTHER than his Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde, with the "cancer-doomed" contralto - Kathleen Ferrier. I'm also glad that you have derived some enjoyment from other parts of the Walter legacy, in recordings.


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## The3Bs (Apr 1, 2020)

I like very much Walter's Brahms , Beethoven and of course Mahler...

I am surprised though that amongst all the Walter experts here no one mentioned the intense 1957 recording of Beethoven's 3rd:









Ok, the sound is not the best... but the intensity and the dynamics still come through.. The Marcia Funebre is of a fantastic lyricism...


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm going to check out his Brahms—what's generally considered better, the Columbia SO cycle or the earlier NYP cycle?


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