# Where are the fugues?



## martonic

Hi Everyone! I am brand-new to this forum. Amateur pianist and composer for a long time, part-time music teacher, full time software engineer. Also into close-up magic and swing and salsa dancing.

I play the "Magnificat" fugues by Pachelbel, four fugues by Handel (are there more?), two by Domenico Scarlatti (including the "Cat Fugue") and one by Alessandro Scarlatti, one by Beethoven (in the A-flat sonata) and some of the Bach fugues, and I recently found a book of twenty short fugues by Telemann. 

What other baroque or classical keyboard fugues exist?

I ask because I love fugues and am teaching myself to write them (five so far) and would like more styles and examples to play and study.

Thanks everyone!


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## SuperTonic

JS Bach's Art of Fugue (BWV 1080). This is essential studying for anyone who wants to learn about fugues. They were not written specifically for a keyboard instrument (no instrumentation is indicated in the original manuscript if I recall correctly), but there are likely keyboard transcriptions of them.


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## SixFootScowl

My favorite fugue is actually a choral piece, the Amen chorus from Handel's Messiah.


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## martonic

Thank you very much. 

I am wondering why 80% of the keyboard fugues I know about were written either by Bach or Pachelbel. (Bach 62, Pachelbel 120, everyone else combined: less than 40). The fugue is such a famous style or form. Where are the rest of them?


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## tdc

Fugues often exist within another piece of music for example various instrumental works (often in passacaglias and chaconnes) choral pieces, symphonies or string quartets etc. as I'm sure you know they are not just stand alone keyboard works. I know it is not the answer you are looking for here but if I was wanting to study keyboard fugues specifically I would look into Bach's _Well Tempered Clavier_. There are 48 keyboard fugues right there of the highest quality.


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## martonic

All true, especially the part about "highest quality". Thank you.

Maybe most succeeding composers were just too intimidated by the Bach fugues to consider writing more of them!


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## martonic

I just found out about a set of 20 fugues written by Johann Caspar Ferdinand Fischer - which will hopefully be included in a book I just ordered. His lifetime (1656 - 1746) is contemporaneous with that of J.S. Bach (1665 - 1750). I have previously studied Fischer and hope to find this new material to be valuable.


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## Josquin13

I agree that Bach's Art of Fugue and Well-Tempered Clavier Books 1 & 2 are essential. IMO, harpsichordist Christian Rieger understands fugues better than most. At least his playing of Bach fugues has added to my understanding of what a fugue is. I've also liked harpsichordists Gustav Leonhardt and Bob van Asperen in Bach fugues, as well as pianist Ivo Janssen.

https://www.allmusic.com/album/js-bach-the-art-of-fugue-mw0001429127
www.biberfan.org/reviews/2011/02/16/bach-art-of-fugue-christian-rieger


















What I love most about Bach fugues is how multi-directional they are--at times musical lines can seem to come out of nowhere, and they shouldn't work within the whole, but they do, they fit brilliantly & organically with everything else. There are moments like that in Bach's Art of Fugue that I treasure.

One of most mind blowing fugal movements in all of Bach is the opening to his "Michaelmas" Cantata BWV 19. I'd suggest you turn the volume up for this movement to get the full effect:






Like many composers, Beethoven had a strong interest in Bach fugues. Not only did he play the Well Tempered Clavier in his youth, but Bach's Preludes & fugues were very influential on his late piano sonatas and string quartets (& appear in Beethoven's sketchbooks). For example, the difficult fugal movement in Beethoven's Hammerklavier Piano Sonata, Op. 106 (which can end up becoming a mess on modern grands, but works better on period pianos):






And of course the single movement "Grosse fuge", Op. 133--a double fugue, which Beethoven discarded from his late String Quartet No. 13, Op. 130:






Among others that come to mind, I'd suggest getting to know the following:

Robert Schumann's fugues, such as his Six Fugues on Bach, Op. 60 and Four Fugues, Op, 72 (as Schumann was very influenced by Bach):










Max Reger's Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Bach, Op. 81:






And finally, Dmitri Shostakovich's 48 Preludes and fugues for solo piano, Op. 87 (modeled after you know who):






Hope that helps.


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## Ras

martonic said:


> Hi Everyone .... four fugues by Handel (are there more?),....


I assume Handel's 8 keyboard suites have fugues in them?? On piano I like Lisa Smirnova from the ECM label (in case you are looking for recordings. 








I'm not a musician, but these are fugues I have come across that may interest you if you are not already familiar with them:

You would probably win some sort of award if you can find a work by JS Bach that is NOT fugal!

Mozart composed a fugue for piano in C major - it's KV 394 (383a) from 1782. I have it in a box from Bis with R. Brautigam playing a period instrument: 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Com...518633458&sr=8-4&keywords=brautigam+mozart+cd
It must be on Spotify too because they have most of Bis' catalog.

Mozart arranged some Bach fugues for string quartet - a genre that hadn't been invented in Bach's time.

Mozart dazzles all the scholars with the fugal parts of his last symphony - "Jupiter" (nr. 41).

One of JS Bach's longest fugue is from the 3rd sonata for solo violin BWV1005 in C major. - about ten minutes long.

Welcome on board martonic - I am also newish here...


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## martonic

Thank you for a terrific detailed reply and for the links! I was not aware of those Schumann pieces, will check them out!


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## martonic

Thank you for your reply! I play Handel's fugues in B minor, B flat major, C minor and G major. I have played through most of his suites, enjoyed them for many hours through the years, but never found any fugues there. 

Bach is surely the supreme "contrapuntalist" of the known universe.


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## Vasks

martonic said:


> Thank you for your reply! I play Handel's fugues in B minor, B flat major, C minor and G major. I have played through most of his suites, enjoyed them for many hours through the years, but never found any fugues there.


Without looking at scores of the Handel Suites, my recording of all 8 suites have several fugues listed for certain movements

No. 2: last movement
No. 3: second movement
No. 4: first movement
No. 6: second movement after a Largo section
No. 8: second movement


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## martonic

Vasks said:


> Without looking at scores of the Handel Suites, my recording of all 8 suites have several fugues listed for certain movements
> 
> No. 2: last movement
> No. 3: second movement
> No. 4: first movement
> No. 6: second movement after a Largo section
> No. 8: second movement


Hi - thank you very much! Can you provide the key signatures? My edition may not agree on the numbering. Looking again just now, I did find a fugue (4th movement) in an F-major suite but in my edition it is labeled simply "Allegro". It is a very nice composition! I will look through the book again "with new eyes" and see what else I can spot.


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## Vasks

martonic said:


> Can you provide the key signatures?


Suite #2 in F major
Suite #3 in D minor
Suite #4 in E minor
Suite #6 in F# major
Suite #8 in F minor

Here's all the scores. Yes, are not labeled "Fugues" but my CD says they are

https://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/1/1b/IMSLP111327-PMLP44355-Handel_-_Suites_de_Pieces_(Cluer_1720).pdf


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## martonic

Great, I found all of them. My (Dover) edition does not include the same numbering. The suite in F# is in F# minor. For some reason I did not get into that suite yet but I have played each of the other cited movements numerous times. Of course they are fugues, although my edition labels each of them simply "Allegro". Thank you very much for pointing these out.

The fugal first movement ("Allegro") in E minor is a masterpiece and I like to play it as a conclusion to Handel's other E minor suite (of which there are two AFAIK).

I have been playing these for years without stopping to label them as fugues, although I certainly understood them as such.


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## Josquin13

martonic said:


> Thank you for a terrific detailed reply and for the links! I was not aware of those Schumann pieces, will check them out!


Martonic, you might be interested to know that it wasn't just Robert Schumann that studied Bach's Well Tempered Clavier and Art of Fugue: his wife, Clara, also studied these Bach works with him in 1845, and she too composed fugues, such as her "Drei Präludien und Fugen", opus 16:

www.henkdevlieger.nl/Henk_de_Vlieger/fuge.html


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## Mandryka

martonic said:


> Hi Everyone! I am brand-new to this forum. Amateur pianist and composer for a long time, part-time music teacher, full time software engineer. Also into close-up magic and swing and salsa dancing.
> 
> I play the "Magnificat" fugues by Pachelbel, four fugues by Handel (are there more?), two by Domenico Scarlatti (including the "Cat Fugue") and one by Alessandro Scarlatti, one by Beethoven (in the A-flat sonata) and some of the Bach fugues, and I recently found a book of twenty short fugues by Telemann.
> 
> What other baroque or classical keyboard fugues exist?
> 
> I ask because I love fugues and am teaching myself to write them (five so far) and would like more styles and examples to play and study.
> 
> Thanks everyone!


It's interesting you play the some magnificat fugues, do they sound interesting on a piano?

One off the wall suggestion is Cabezon's intabulation of the Osanna from Josquin's Missa L'homme Arme 6th tone, it's a canon I think, but I'm not sure if it needs more than one keyboard, you'd have to check.

Ah, I've just seen that you want baroque or classical. Well maybe think of Buxtehude's toccatas, these have been recorded on piano by Francesco Tristano Schlime, and in Russia at least some of them were commonly used in conservatories (Sofronitsky played one, and I think so did Prokofiev.) They have alternating free and fugal passages.

Another thing to think of is from Bach's Clavier Ubung III. This book contains quite a few pieces for manuals only which are fugal, BWV 679, 681 and 689, though again I don't know how they will fit onto a single keyboard. To me, they sound as though they would be great fun to play! There is, of course, a famous transcription of the St Anne Fugue by Busoni, if that's the sort of thing you want.

You also asked for classical. My favourite classical fugue is Mozart's K 608 fantasy for a musical clock, there are plenty of transcriptions for two pianos, and it may well be possible to put the fugal sections on a single keyboard, you'd have to look.


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## martonic

Wow, I certainly came to the right place with my question! Thanks everyone so much!

Pachelbel's "Magnificat" fugues sound fantastic on the piano. However, I am not aware of any published recording of these performed that way. I am just learning about the ways in which music information and performances, including amateur performances, are now being shared on the Internet. No promises, but I will look into posting some Magnificat on the piano one of these days.


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## martonic

Wow, that is awesome. Thank you! Attacca Fuga!


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## tdc

Since you seem to be branching into the Romantic era now I would like to recommend this masterpiece:


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## KenOC

tdc said:


> Since you seem to be branching into the Romantic era now I would like to recommend this masterpiece:


Why stop at the Romantics? How about this guy? Brilliant! Listen at 13:40...


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## Star




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## tdc

KenOC said:


> Why stop at the Romantics? How about this guy? Brilliant! Listen at 13:40...


A fine example no doubt! However I think the OP is specifically looking for keyboard fugues.


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## KenOC

tdc said:


> A fine example no doubt! However I think the OP is specifically looking for keyboard fugues.


Oh, something like this? Listen at 2:51...​


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## tdc

KenOC said:


> Oh, something like this? Listen at 2:51...​


Another nice example but Ken (sorry to be a stickler) these pieces were already mentioned in post #8 :lol:

Got anything else?


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## KenOC

Nah, since my efforts are so underappreciated, I'm taking my fugues and going home (in a snit of course).


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## tdc

KenOC said:


> Nah, since my efforts are so underappreciated, I'm taking my fugues and going home (in a snit of course).


Oh and here I thought you would jump on the opportunity to mention the monumental fugue from Beethoven's _Hammerklavier_, since I don't think its been mentioned yet.

Don't worry Ken I'm just teasing - I appreciate your efforts. 
I took the time to listen to the Britten fugue you posted and was thoroughly impressed, thanks for reminding me of it. :tiphat:


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## KenOC

Aw, what the heck. Beethoven, eh? Take a listen at 16:17.


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## martonic

Wow! I can't thank everyone enough for the fantastic breadth of the replies to my seemingly simple question.

However, undeniably, this one takes the cake.

Slurp!

(intended as a reply to Star's post of Glenn Gould's vocal composition and its performance). 

I need to work on my forum posting skills.


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## martonic

A few more comments.

Britten: great conclusion, earlier, strings sound like a wind tunnel under distortion. 
Shostakovic: cat collection burglarized by creepy clown wielding a pitchfork.
Beethoven: great music, please lighten up on the pedal.
Brahms: did he write this to torture piano students.
Clara Schumann: mighty fine work!

Conclusion: Bach put the lights out, at least for me. Nothing else quite measures up, but Beethoven gets second place.

Thanks again everyone!


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## martonic

Star said:


>


Wow! I can't thank everyone enough for the fantastic breadth of the replies to my seemingly simple question.

However, undeniably, this one takes the cake.

Slurp!


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## Star

Of course there is the fugue at the end of the Diabelli Variations


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## Star

And the Sanctus in Verdi's Requiem


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## tdc

martonic said:


> Brahms: did he write this to torture piano students.


I once read that pianist/composer Rachmaninov could generally learn and memorize a piece like Brahms Handel Variations in one evening. 

If such a piece ever took him longer he would be disappointed and feel as if he was 'losing it'.


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