# Living Conductor Survivor Brainstorming



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

It's been a while since we wrapped up our highly popular Conductor Survivor Game thread- and even though our finals poll thread has been something of an anticlimax, there seemed enough enthusiasm to merit the requested 'Conductor Survivor Game, Living Conductor Sequel' endeavor.

To begin with, big kudos to *jhar26* for his excellent suggestion on opening up the floor to nominations for the living conductors. There were exactly 10 active posters who made multiple postings in the 'Conductor Survivor' thread, so I thought those contributors would get pride of place in advancing nominations. there are 3 tiers of contributors: the 15+ club (*Rondo*, *Atabey*, *confuoco*, *jhar26* & *Chi_town/Philly*), the follow-up trio of *World Violist*, *ecg_fa* & *Rachovsky*, and the concluding duet of *Kuhlau* & *Ludovyk*. If everyone nominates one, that gives us 10 names.

Another set of kudos to *confuoco*, who pointed out that the rather closed circuit of the last list meant that some great conductors did not get a look-see. I think I have a way around that...

I propose that the "Living Conductors, Conductor Survivor Sequel" be divided into two phases, both with lists of 10- one for European-born living conductors, and one for non-European-born living conductors. (I'd like the Europeans to go first.) Then, down the road, we can merge the two lists to come up with a process to narrow it down to a final 10, overall. [More on this later.]

For simplicity's sake, I submit that we use the same voting protocols we used before- every nominated conductor starts at +10, each poster has two (+) votes & two (-) votes to use, cummulatively or 1 each, as often as once per day, and advancement to +22 leads to exaltation and the finals, and regression to (-) 2 leads to elimination. As before, the person on the 'business-end' of an advancement or relegation has the right to name the next nominee, who enters the list at +10.

One final word, and it concerns *Atabey*'s great point as to whether the 'Living Conductors' sequel should be limited to conductors who are currently active. My position is that it's not necessarily easy to distinguish active from semi-active & inactive, but it's simple to determine the Boolean choice of whether someone's alive or dead. So I say that _any_ living conductor should be a valid potential nominee... but I will let myself be governed by the will of the majority on this one.

So- let me know... what do you think??


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Osmo Vanska gets my nomination. There are no living conductors who interest me quite so much.


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Mariss Jansons...He is the epitome of intellectual music-making nowadays.


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> One final word, and it concerns *Atabey*'s great point as to whether the 'Living Conductors' sequel should be limited to conductors who are currently active. My position is that it's not necessarily easy to distinguish active from semi-active & inactive, but it's simple to determine the Boolean choice of whether someone's alive or dead. So I say that _any_ living conductor should be a valid potential nominee... but I will let myself be governed by the will of the majority on this one.


It is not easy to distinguish active from semi active but some conductors are as active as dead conductors because of their health problems.There are some semi-active conductors like Blomstedt and they should be included because they are conducting in all but Sawallisch and Sanderling for example have not been on the podium for a single time for nearly four years.So what seperates them from C.Kleiber who died at around the same time these two stopped conducting?


----------



## ecg_fa (Nov 10, 2008)

Very hard to single out just one. I'll go with Valery Gergiev if he hasn't been named.

Ed


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Atabey said:


> ...Sawallisch and Sanderling for example have not been on the podium for a single time for nearly four years. So what seperates them from C.Kleiber who died at around the same time these two stopped conducting?


Uhhh- that they're _alive_?

Actually, my real objection was one of categorization- if we opt to commemorate _working_ conductors (exclusively), I'm okay with that.

I take it that launching into the nominations portion of this thread is evidence that the remainder of my ideas were considered relatively sound. On that basis, I submit that the three previous nominations be allowed to stand. As for me, I nominate _Bernard Haitink_. So (keeping in mind we're limiting ourselves to European-born conductors, now), the nominations are:
*World Violist*- Osmo Vanska
*Atabey*- Mariss Jansons
*ecg_fa*- Valery Gergiev
*Chi_town/Philly*- Bernard Haitink.

*Rondo*, *confuoco*, *jhar26*, *Rachovsky*, *Kuhlau* & *Ludovyk* are on the clock.


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Uhhh- that they're _alive_?


Sorry,i forgot to put the phrase of "in terms of making music in our age"...


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Chi_town how many conductors will we name European+non-european?20 right?How are we going to pick the non-European ones.Do we get another vote for them also???


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Neville Marriner


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I've been thinking about it seriously. 

Blomstedt is my official nomination.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Several points:

1) Suggested change in title from "Living Conductors" to "Conductors of Today," to reflect my relenting on the issue of excluding fully-retired maestros.

2) Current nominations:
*World Violist*- Vanska
*Atabey*- Jansons
*ecg_fa*- Gergiev
*Chi_town/Philly*- Haitink
*jhar26*- Marriner*
*Rondo*- Blomstedt
*confuoco*, *Rachovsky*, *Kuhlau* & *Ludovyk* are on the clock.

*3) I like the _Marriner_ nomination- somebody _please_ assure me that he's not inactive!

4) It had been my idea to take a European-born 'Conductors of Today' thread, put it through its paces, to its conclusion. Then, repeat the process with a _separate_ non-European-born 'Conductors of Today' thread. Upon the completion of both, we could merge the two into a list of 20, which would then be voted on in a more "knockout" style format. (I.e. more minuses than plusses at each voters discretion, and no more replacement of knocked-out contenders.) *Confuoco*'s one very legitimate objection to our previous thread is that a lot of great conductors had no opportunity to even appear on the list! I think this proposal helps guard against that happening quite so much this time.


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> One final word, and it concerns *Atabey*'s great point as to whether the 'Living Conductors' sequel should be limited to conductors who are currently active. My position is that it's not necessarily easy to distinguish active from semi-active & inactive, but it's simple to determine the Boolean choice of whether someone's alive or dead. So I say that _any_ living conductor should be a valid potential nominee... but I will let myself be governed by the will of the majority on this one.
> 
> So- let me know... what do you think??


I basically agree with your position. Making a difference between active and not active is too complicated. If we (for the sake of argument) did a similar game on opera singers Kiri Te Kanawa would probably be nominated by one member or the other (probably me), but someone would probably argue that since she hasn't sung in an opera house for several years she could not be considered an active opera singer. But in the new issue of Classic FM she says she considers a comeback to the operatic stage. So, in theory Kiri could be refused from entering the game of active opera singers while for all we know she might sing at the Met halfway through the game. I guess the same goes for conductors. Even if Marriner (or anyone else) has been inactive as of late doesn't mean that he won't conduct again tomorrow.


----------



## confuoco (Feb 8, 2008)

My nomination:

*Riccardo Chailly*


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I wanted to make the distinction living as opposed to dead, originally- but there are reasons I didn't press the issue.

To begin with, people who thought that only relatively active conductors should be considered would probably be out there strafing inactive conductors with their minuses, just on the general principle that they shouldn't be under consideration, and not necessarily on their artistic impressions.

Secondly, I understand that even if we judged a few inactive conductors eligible, and they actually garnered a lot of support, there would be some aesthetic lack of satisfaction from touting excellent living conductors... who don't conduct anymore!

If you want us to, *jhar*, we could put it up for a vote- and I'd vote _with you_ on this one-- but I'm not sure that opening up this can would be worth it...


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

confuoco said:


> My nomination:
> 
> *Riccardo Chailly*


Thanks much for nominating Chailly, by the way, he would be my second one!


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I basically agree with your position. Making a difference between active and not active is too complicated. If we (for the sake of argument) did a similar game on opera singers Kiri Te Kanawa would probably be nominated by one member or the other (probably me), but someone would probably argue that since she hasn't sung in an opera house for several years she could not be considered an active opera singer. But in the new issue of Classic FM she says she considers a comeback to the operatic stage. So, in theory Kiri could be refused from entering the game of active opera singers while for all we know she might sing at the Met halfway through the game. I guess the same goes for conductors. Even if Marriner (or anyone else) has been inactive as of late doesn't mean that he won't conduct again tomorrow.


Well for most of them it does.Sawallisch and Sanderling is incapable of conducting because of health problems.Opera singers retire because they begin to think their voice lost its beauty because of age.Conductors usually retire not because of thinking they are not as good as they used to be but because they are simply incapable of it because of the health problems age brings.Remember Klemperer,even with his face burnt and his body partly paralysed and although he was unable to stand still he was conducting from a chair.(And he was conducting great but that is another topic altogether.)That is to say if a conductor had any chance to conduct i think he would do it.This is not like the voice your talent does not get inferior as you age.(Well in some cases it does,but not necessarily)

Still,i started to concur that it is complicated.So yes,i give up.Lets do it "living".


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> 4) It had been my idea to take a European-born 'Conductors of Today' thread, put it through its paces, to its conclusion. Then, repeat the process with a _separate_ non-European-born 'Conductors of Today' thread. Upon the completion of both, we could merge the two into a list of 20, which would then be voted on in a more "knockout" style format. (I.e. more minuses than plusses at each voters discretion, and no more replacement of knocked-out contenders.) *Confuoco*'s one very legitimate objection to our previous thread is that a lot of great conductors had no opportunity to even appear on the list! I think this proposal helps guard against that happening quite so much this time.


Well i hope that will not realise the nightmare which confuoco noted.I am afraid too many great conductors will go unnoticed.(Especially European).Abbado is still not mentioned. Neither is Temirkanov,nor is Muti and Rattle,Welser-Möst etc.


----------



## Rachovsky (Jan 5, 2008)

A conductor whose interpretations always please me:
(And don't spit in my face for this nomination; I like him more than the others )

*Esa-Pekka Salonen*

(Sorry, I just got wind of this thread.)


----------



## Kuhlau (Oct 1, 2008)

I may be being a little left-field with this suggestion, but I'm going for Naxos' 'house' conductor, Antoni Wit. 

FK


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Okay- time for contingency plans-

The final nomination belongs to *Ludovyk*-- but I've noticed that he hasn't been here in about half-a-week. To me, *phoenixshade* has also earned the right to nominate, if he wishes... but he appears to have left us for good.

I suggest that we give either one of these contributors 36 hours to get their nomination in. If neither of them do so, I propose that the final slot go to Claudio Abbado- the living conductor who did the best job of surviving on the all-time conductor thread. I have no agenda in suggesting this- in fact, Claudio received some of my minuses in the previous thread. I just happen to think that, if we need to make an "objective" decision, his name carries the most objective merit, based on previous performance.


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Upon the recent discovery that Blomstedt is not a foreign-born conductor, I am changing my nomination to *Pierre Boulez.*


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

*Time to nominate our non-European-born conductors*

Rather than create a new thread, I decided to piggyback on this one, and open nominations for for the "Living Conductors, non-European-born" thread. As before, nominations will be accepted in accordance with a calculation of participation on the "European Conductors" thread. _Please_, wait until your turn before advancing your nominee. Two requirements for nominated conductors here... 1) they must be living, and 2) they must have been born _outside_ of Europe. Here is the "draft-order:"

1) *World Violist*
2) _yours truly, your humble dilettante_
3) *confuoco*
4) *ecg fa*
5) *Atabey* 
6) *Rondo*
7) *jhar26*
8) *Rachovsky*
9) *tahnak*
10) *World Violist* (again)

If 24 hours pass when a person is "on-the-clock," the next person on the list may select. Then, the bypassed poster can play "catch-up" at any subsequent time.

*World Violist*... you're on the clock!


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Seiji Ozawa is my first nomination!


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Rather than nominate a blatantly famous active conductor, I'd like to forward a less obvious name. He was born in America, grew up in Australia, and became world-famous in Europe. He's known for his Mozart, known for his Janáček, and known for his Gilbert & Sullivan. [Lots of people think very highly of his Beethoven cycle, too.]

It's my pleasure to nominate *Charles Mackerras*.

*Confuoco*, you're on the clock!


----------



## confuoco (Feb 8, 2008)

*Zubin Mehta*

*ecq fa*....you're on the clock!


----------



## ecg_fa (Nov 10, 2008)

Kent Nagano. He may be begt known for contemporary work but also effective at Mahler, Debussy & fine opera conductor I think.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

*Atabey*: At-a-bat.

*Rondo*: On deck.

*Jhar26*: In-the-hole.

just a little baseball metaphor, here...


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Levine, James Levine...


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I'll stick with my original choice, *Herbert Blomstedt*.


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Rondo said:


> I'll stick with my original choice, *Herbert Blomstedt*.


I was going to nominate him but then remembered you like him too and were most likely to nominate him.Having an assurance on his nomination, i nominated Levine.


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

*Leonard Slatkin*. Not my No.1 choice (or 2 or 3), but they have already been nominated.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Atabey said:


> I was going to nominate him [i.e.: Blomstedt] but then remembered you like him too and were most likely to nominate him. Having an assurance on his nomination, I nominated Levine.


and _I_ took the calculated risk that someone else would nominate Levine, which I felt freed me up to select Mackerras.

It is now *Rachovsky*'s turn, followed by *tahnak*. Tahnak is only an intermittent visitor here- so I hope he selects before his 24 are up. If not, *World* can set over top of him, followed by me.


----------



## Rachovsky (Jan 5, 2008)

*Michael Tilson Thomas.*


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Atabey said:


> I was going to nominate him but then remembered you like him too and were most likely to nominate him.Having an assurance on his nomination, i nominated Levine.





Chi_town/Philly said:


> and _I_ took the calculated risk that someone else would nominate Levine, which I felt freed me up to select Mackerras.


And, having originally preferred Blomstedt for the European game and Ozawa for this one, I stayed with Blomstedt thinking someone would certainly choose Ozawa.


----------



## Atabey (Oct 8, 2008)

Rondo said:


> And, having originally preferred Blomstedt for the European game and Ozawa for this one, I stayed with Blomstedt thinking someone would certainly choose Ozawa.


Well Ozawa was already chosen when you made yours unfortunately...


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Yes, but my mind was pretty much made before the nominations started for this game. Ozawa has been mentioned much more in the forum (at least more than Blomstedt).


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

As I feared, *tahnak* cycled through his 24 without visiting, so then it becomes *World Violist's* turn to make another nomination. If, after another 24 hours beyond _that _nomination, tahnak has not returned to nominate another conductor, your humble dilettante will make the final selection.


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Ach, I'm running out of material!!! Hmm... I'll go with Gustavo Dudamel. I swear he's the only one I can think of... and his Youtube videos of the Shostakovich 10th show him to have much promise, if not yet greatness, per se.


----------



## Rachovsky (Jan 5, 2008)

World Violist said:


> Ach, I'm running out of material!!! Hmm... I'll go with Gustavo Dudamel. I swear he's the only one I can think of... and his Youtube videos of the Shostakovich 10th show him to have much promise, if not yet greatness, per se.


Yes, that is the only piece I've heard him conduct that I truly loved. I don't care if it was bloody fast; it was good.


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Just for future reference, was Russia included in the Euro one??? I don't recall seeing any Russians in that one...


----------



## confuoco (Feb 8, 2008)

World Violist said:


> Just for future reference, was Russia included in the Euro one??? I don't recall seeing any Russians in that one...


Gergiev was the first exalted, Temirkanov nominated for example.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

AAaarrgh! *tahnak* visited, but didn't find this thread! Well- another 24 has passed, so the final nomination is about to be placed. I will go with someone well-known to our former prolific contributor *ChamberNut* and nominate a versatile quasi-HIPster...

*David Zinman*.

Our nominees (in order of their selection)- Seiji Ozawa, Charles Mackerras, Zubin Mehta, Kent Nagano, James Levine, Herbert Blomstedt, Leonard Slatkin, Michael Tilson Thomas, Gustavo Dudamel & David Zinman will be placed in a new sequel thread within 24 hours.

See you there! CTP


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I know Zinman... haha. I have his Beethoven cycle. It's actually pretty good. I suppose I just never realized that he was American-born for some reason (in fact I looked him up and therefore KNEW he is American-born...); his name just sounds too European, I suppose.

As to the Russians... I'm a fool.


----------



## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Chi_Town/Philly... I would hate for this game to end, so do you think it is possible to make a survivor game for other categories rather than Conductors? Then it go on and on...and everyone would be happy.

Sorry, I discovered the game quite late and have a relatively narrow knowledge of conductors, so I am just going to... standby... and be happy when MTT gets exalted.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I think that, when the current project ends, we could run a poll for which category (categories) the board community would like to see next. Then, threads can be formed based on the results of the poll. I would, however, like to take it one category at at time.

Thanks for your input and positive comments, *air*!


----------

