# Johannes Brahms



## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

I know it will sound a bit odd, but I don't own any of his compositions in any form; I'm going to Tel Aviv (again) on the 22nd this month and I can get up to 2 CD...what would you recommend to try and get?


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> I know it will sound a bit odd, but I don't own any of his compositions in any form; I'm going to Tel Aviv (again) on the 22nd this month and I can get up to 2 CD...what would you recommend to try and get?


The violin concerto and symphony no 1

or PC 1 and sy 4 maybe with the double concerto coupled.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Symphony No 4 - Carlos Kleiber

Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 - Emil Gilels/Eugen Jochum


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2019)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Symphony No 4 - Carlos Kleiber
> 
> Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 - Emil Gilels/Eugen Jochum


Agree about the Kleiber. But the Piano Concerto #2 with Clifford Curzon/VPO/Knappertsbusch is easily the best I've ever heard.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Flip a coin. Any of the concerti, symphonies, string sextets to start -- then move out from there.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Reading all the Brahms topic's available on this site.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Brahm's concertos are great, his symphonies are very good, and his chamber music is good. At least that's how I feel (and I've played first violinist for his quartets).

I would get his concertos. Zimmerman, Kovacevich, and Gilels are my preferred pianists. For violin, Krebbers and Mutter are great.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I would get a symphony cycle and the string quartets/quintets/sextets. The ones I listen to the most are this one:









https://www.hdtracks.com/brahms-the-four-symphonies

And this one:









https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Complete-Quartets-Quintets-Sextets/dp/B00008RWRG

Any concerto featuring Anne-Sophie Mutter is a good buy as well.

Here are some YouTube links.

String Sextet No. 1: 




Violin Concerto:


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

If your bias is orchestral then any of the symphonies or the violin concerto or a piano concerto. If your bias is chamber then the clarinet quintet (in fact get that even if you aren't biased towards chamber music!) or possibly the violin sonatas or piano quartets. 

Many people find orchestral Brahms difficult at first - I know I did - and I think this is often because he is not the composer they are expecting. You may need a gateway conductor for the symphonies (for me it was Klemperer, who I value far less now in Brahms but who gave me the granitic sound world along with some rhythmic emphasis that I needed in the beginning). Kleiber's 4th is very widely enjoyed and is a good recommendation for starting off.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

chu42 said:


> Brahm's concertos are great, his symphonies are very good, and his chamber music is good.


I would reverse the order, keeping in mind that for the chamber music his string quartets are not as good (imo) as the rest. The other works (first and foremost the clarinet quintet) make him my favourite chamber music composer.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

chu42 said:


> Brahm's concertos are great, his symphonies are very good, and his chamber music is good. At least that's how I feel (and I've played first violinist for his quartets).


From my view, Brahms is great in all three categories. It's his operas that are lacking.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

This thread is is revealing Brahms to be really quite limited.


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Exactly....where to begin with 2 cds


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Brahms was known to be extremely self-critical. He refused to publish a lot of his work and burned his manuscripts before he died. The result - for me - is that the ratio of hits to misses is extremely high.

I started with the piano concertos (Gilels is a good choice), but the piece that really grabbed me was his first piano trio (Op. 8). I would also recommend the first sextet and the clarinet quintet. For orchestral music, I might suggest following Brahms' path and start with his first full orchestral composition, the "Haydn Variations." Personally, I would not recommend beginning with the first or fourth symphonies.

Brahms' romanticism is not Tchaikovsky's. It exists in tension with a desire to preserve the forms of generations before - going all the way back to Baroque. He was particular aware of Beethoven's shadow. It took him many years to publish his first symphony and almost as long to publish his first string quartets. And as Art Rock says, these are not up to his best work. (I like them though.)


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

PlaySalieri said:


> This thread is is revealing Brahms to be really quite limited.


Because? The question did not concern a not-to-be-missed list of works but merely 2 CDs that might work as an introduction. It sounds like you need to try them, too.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

It's interesting that there's such an emphasis on orchestral music here. Brahms certainly did great things in the medium, but if I was pressed to pick just two discs, I would take the Radu Lupu piano works and the two string quintets (op. 88, 111) with the Boston Symphony Chamber Players, which I absolutely adore.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I adore the Double Concerto by
Joshua Bell
Steven Isserlis
ASMF

Very fiery. 

Brahms is one of my favourite composers and love almost everything he composed


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Judith said:


> I adore the Double Concerto by
> Joshua Bell
> Steven Isserlis
> ASMF
> ...


Honestly, that is one of the last pieces I would recommend to a beginner in Brahms.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I was late to the Brahms party as well. I initially dismissed him as "boring" and I couldn't disagree more with my teenage assessment of his oeuvre.

I would recommend a set of his symphonies, in particular Simon Rattle or Karajan.

Also a set of his piano music, Stephen Kovacevich's Philips recording contains a selection of the best.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

There are at least three distinct Brahms voices. As a general recommendation of the big, "public" Brahms: *Violin concerto* with Kennedy and Tennstedt, *4 Symphonies* from Schmidt-Isserstedt and Northwest German Radio Orchestra Hamburg which was Brahms' hometown orchestra. The 4 symphonies can be had on 2 CDs priced as 1.

If you want to hear the "private" Brahms In chamber music: the *Clarinet Trio Op. 114* and *Piano Quartet Op 25* from Robert Levin, David Krakauer, Adela Pena and Ah Ling Neu.

If you want to hear melancholy choral music *Schickalslied* and *Alto Rhapsody*. Claudio Abbado and Marjana Lipovsek have a collection that includes both along with two other wonderful choral pieces.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2019)

My favourite works by Brahms are the *Piano Quintet, Op 34* and the *Clarinet Quintet Op 115*. I'd go for the version by Alfredo Perl (piano), Ralph Manno (clarinet).

I'd also select the complete set of *4 symphonies*, and the version I'd go for is Roger Norrington/Radio-Sinfonieorchester Stuttgart des SWR.

When funds permit, the VC, Double Concerto and the two PCs should be added. The German Requiem is another essential item. Further works are the Piano Trios, Clarinet Trio, and Horn Trio. The late piano works Ops 116-119 should be added. A glorious piece of choral work is the Alto Rhapsody. My favourite version is with Janet Baker.

There's tons of other marvellous work by Brahms, so much it's difficult to stop listing.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Yes, the limitations of travel. But one can order Brahms CDs, more than two, from anywhere in the world.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> Honestly, that is one of the last pieces I would recommend to a beginner in Brahms.


Realised now, not one of most popular works but I just love it. Then again, do love a lot of underrated works


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Brahms' Hungarian Dances are well worth a listen as well.


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

I'll second the Hungarian Dances, either piano for four hands or orchestral will do. Cello Sonata No. 1 is sublime, and No. 2 is quality as well. Those would be my two top choices for an absolute beginner.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

OP asked for just 2 CDs, so obviously with such limited parameters orchestral will be emphasized.

My list of essential Brahms purchases would include:

Symphony No. 1 - Karajan (1964)
Symphony No. 2 - Klemperer
Symphony No. 3 - Abbado
Symphony No. 4 - Kleiber
Piano concertos Nos. 1 & 2 - Gilels/Jochum
Violin concerto - Krebbers/Haitink
Hungarian dances - Abbado
Clarinet quintet - De Peyer/Melos Ensemble 
Solo piano works - Lupu
Requiem - Gardiner (1990)


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

Instead of getting four different symphonies from different folks, Solti's set is one purchase and is solid throughout.


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> I know it will sound a bit odd, but I don't own any of his compositions in any form; I'm going to Tel Aviv (again) on the 22nd this month and I can get up to 2 CD...what would you recommend to try and get?


Instead of buying CDs "piece-meal" I think you should go for older recordings that are still going strong 50 years or more down the road usually selling cheaper than new stuff. So I'd suggest you buy a *EMI/Warner box by Otto Klemperer with all of Brahms' 4 symphonies and the German Requiem* (plus some extra "fillers" - if that's the right word for something that good?!…).









If you still have pocket money to spend after you have bought that box - the next essential purchase would be the two piano concertos. I can't decide which of these two to recommend - so go with what your Tel Aviv CD-pushers have in store:

*Barenboim on piano - Barbirolli conducting:* (there are 3 other recordings with Barenboim on piano, but this one with Barbirolli is the best.









*or: Gilels/E. Jochum on DG:*


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

AeolianStrains said:


> Instead of getting four different symphonies from different folks, Solti's set is one purchase and is solid throughout.


I'd take Abbado's or Jochum's sets over Solti. More natural understanding of Brahms phrasing, structure, and orchestral color. Karajan and Klemperer are also good choices. But with sets there are always variable performances.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Ras said:


> Instead of buying CDs "piece-meal" I think you should go for older recordings that are still going strong 50 years or more down the road usually selling cheaper than new stuff. So I'd suggest you buy a *EMI/Warner box by Otto Klemperer with all of Brahms' 4 symphonies and the German Requiem* (plus some extra "fillers" - if that's the right word for something that good?!…).
> 
> View attachment 123316
> 
> ...


This is an excellent recommendation. Klemperer's symphonies and Requiem recordings are all top notch, and Barenboim/Barbirolli is also a fine alternative to my top choice of Gilels/Jochum. You can't wrong with either one.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Judith said:


> Realised now, not one of most popular works


Maybe, but it was your enthusiasm for the recording that spurred my purchase. Every piece needs its champion.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Then again, when you're absolutely world weary and depressed, "Vier Ernste Gesange" is essential.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Haitink's LSO version of his Symphony 3. Also a fan of Jack Brymer and Allegri Quartet's version of the Clarinet Quintet.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

You should go for both of his piano concertos (with Dimitris Sgouros), the Intermezzos (with Glenn) and the Ein Deutsches Requiem (make your choice here. It is a great work in every case) The Intermezzos, especially is the MUST. No Intermezzos, no Brahms!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I wonder what OP is dong with all this information.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

Rogerx said:


> I wonder what OP is dong with all this information.


I save links to threads like this...


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Judith said:


> Realised now, not one of most popular works but I just love it. Then again, do love a lot of underrated works


If you can do that, so will I! It may not be Brahms at his best, but I love his First Serenade, a glorious work!

Get a set of Symphonies, or the Concertos, cws. You won't be disappointed!! In the Symphonies, you'll probably get the Academic Festival Overture as an extra, fun stuff! (Yeah, fun and Brahms in the same breath, won't come across that very often.....)


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> From my view, Brahms is great in all three categories. It's his operas that are lacking.


I also don't think all that much of his tone poems...


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

chu42 said:


> I also don't think all that much of his tone poems...


The ballets are even worse.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I once saw a ballet based around the 4th symphony. It was very formal - lots of tutus.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I once saw a ballet based around the 4th symphony. It was very formal - lots of tutus.


This is considered one of Balanchine's great achievements. I loved it.

https://www.nycballet.com/Videos/Ballet-Detail-clips/Liebeslieder-Walzer.aspx

He also set a ballet to Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms's Quartet No. 1.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> This is considered one of Balanchine's great achievements. I loved it.
> 
> https://www.nycballet.com/Videos/Ballet-Detail-clips/Liebeslieder-Walzer.aspx
> 
> He also set a ballet to Schoenberg's orchestration of Brahms's Quartet No. 1.


I've seen both those Ballets! One of them is stunningly beautiful in a tutu sort of way.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Although I do love Brahms's Symphonies and Piano Concertos, and because there's only six of them they make for an easy and brief recommendation, it was really his chamber music that convinced me of his genius. It was the genre he composed the most for and in which I dare say his brilliance is easiest to grasp. Part of that is because his orchestral music is quite dense, but when he composes with that same density and complexity in his chamber music it's much easier to comprehend and appreciate. While I'd recommend a complete set (I have DG's, Phillips, and Hyperion's collections and they're all excellent in their own ways), his Clarinet Quintet, Piano Quintet, String Quintet no. 2, and Trio for Clarinet, Cello, and Piano make for a good introduction. .


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Clouds Weep Snowflakes said:


> I know it will sound a bit odd, but I don't own any of his compositions in any form; I'm going to Tel Aviv (again) on the 22nd this month and I can get up to 2 CD...what would you recommend to try and get?


The works that immediately clicked for me many years ago:

Piano Quintet, op. 34.
Violin Concerto, op. 77
Concerto for Violin and Cello, op. 102
Piano Concerto #2, op. 83
Academic Festival Overture. op. 80
Tragic Overture, op. 81

The symphonies and other chamber music are great, but I found them a little harder to appreciate at first.

You might want to start with this excellent disc:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Although I do love Brahms's Symphonies and Piano Concertos, and because there's only six of them they make for an easy and brief recommendation, it was really his chamber music that convinced me of his genius. It was the genre he composed the most for and in which I dare say his brilliance is easiest to grasp. Part of that is because his orchestral music is quite dense, but when he composes with that same density and complexity in his chamber music it's much easier to comprehend and appreciate.


I had much the same experience with Brahms. Based mainly on the symphonies, my initial feeling (many years in the past now) was that he was rather dry. But I came to love the _Requiem_ after performing it, and then the chamber music for piano and strings, a combination of sonorities Brahms understood thoroughly and wrote gorgeously for. I'm less sure about his string quartet writing, which sometimes seems heavy for the medium, but that's just a personal reaction. I now like, or more than like, all of Brahms except some of the organ music.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

CnC Bartok said:


> It may not be Brahms at his best, but I love his First Serenade, a glorious work!


I love both his serenades.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

The serenades are both very fine works and among his most accessible along with works such as the Liebeslieder Waltzes and the Schicksalslied. The latter is probably one of his greatest.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Open Book said:


> I love both his serenades.


I love his First, and very much like his Second. There IS a difference!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I rank the symphonies as follows

1, 4, 3

2 is one I can do without

Concertos

PC1, PC2, VC (1st mvt only), Double Con

I like all the chamber music (esp violin sonatas) and the overtures

I dont like the solo piano.

The requiem I dont know.

Thats it.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I have come to love all four symphonies by listening frequently to the following recordings:









Seriously, if you want to go from not being a Brahms fan at all to being a Brahms fan quickly, this is the one to get. Cheap, excellent performances, in phenomenal late-1950s-early-1960s EMI analog sound. Klemperer was a visionary with this music, and talk about a performer who always keeps the architecture of the music in mind (and indeed brings it to the forefront). I have been singing the praises of this set in several threads here now, so I apologize for my repetition. But it is just that good, to my ears.

I just got this yesterday but I also think it is great:









It should be available for VERY cheap on Amazon or similar.

Finally, this record is an absolute must for any fan of music:









Seriously, this is not optional!! I fell in love with this record well before I enjoyed the music of Brahms as a whole, but it contains some of the most thoughtful, deeply Romantic playing in the recorded catalogue. Gould really brings Brahms' great bass lines to the forefront. This might be the polar opposite of his very famous (and also great) Bach recordings.

My 2 cents. I'm no authority, I'm a very new, but very enthusiastic, fan of Brahms


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

..........................


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> I've seen both those Ballets! One of them is stunningly beautiful in a tutu sort of way.


I saw the Schoenberg/Brahms, but I kept being distracted by the music. I know the quartet well, but had never heard Schoenberg's adaptation. On a first listen, I didn't care for it.

Looks like Twyla Tharp took on Brahms several times. I have not seen those, although Brahms/Handel (a collaboration with Jerome Robbins) is part of the NYCB repertory.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I enjoyed his symphonies first but had to get hold of Klemperer's recordings for that to happen. The Bruno Walter recordings that my dad had didn't click with me as a child. I now feel that Klemperer misses too much of what makes the symphonies so wonderful and that Walter (among others) is perfect! The piano concertos (Gilels) and the Violin Concerto (Oistrakh) were easy to like. There are now many recordings of those works that I love. 

I do find some of the chamber music - particularly the piano quartets and quintet - a bit rich. I love it but can't take too much of it in one sitting. Maybe I need a more understated recording (I have quite a few but they are mostly from all-star groupings)? I have no such problem with the clarinet quintet - I could listen to it all day - or the (early) string sextets. The symphonies alone convinced me quickly that Brahms was one of the most major composers: there is nothing like them and not a dull note throughout.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

This is a great Brahms work. I just rehearsed it with my church choir. I highly recommend trying a recording of the choral motets. Richard Marlow and Trinity College Choir produced a good single album, and there is a full set of recordings by Marcus Creed and the RIAS Kammerchor


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

*Alternatives to Klemperer*

Many of us recommended the EMI/Warner box by Klemperer as a first choice - but these are also cheap boxes that cover the same reperoire (4 symphnoies + German Requiem + "fillers"). They are good alternatives if Klemperer is for some reason unobtainable.

*Bruno Walter









James Levine:







*


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2019)

Two discs:
German Requiem - Klemperer recording
Piano Trios 1 & 2 - Suk, Katchen, Starker (this is my personal single favorite Brahms recording, and also one of my absolute favorite classical recordings, period. The Piano Trio No. 1 is amazing).


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Has there been any mention of his Lieder? Ferrier and Hotter made fine recordings back in the day, and of course there is Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and also a good selection by Anne Sophie von Otter.

Here is a sampling made by some kid from Texas a few years back.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

DrMike said:


> Two discs:
> German Requiem - Klemperer recording
> Piano Trios 1 & 2 - Suk, Katchen, Starker (this is my personal single favorite Brahms recording, and also one of my absolute favorite classical recordings, period. The Piano Trio No. 1 is amazing).


Wow. I sampled that Suk, Katchen, and Starker disc. Loved what I heard. Just ordered a copy. Thanks!

@Ras, I must get that Bruno Walter Brahms box! Sounds excellent! I think it will be a great complement/contrast to the Klemperer I love so much. I am still a new Brahms guy and haven't heard a whole lot of different approaches. I am sure the Levine is equally good, but unfortunately I am not listening to Levine anymore.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I have often thought that the D major Serenade is the only opportunity we will ever have of watching (hearing) Brahms learning to be Brahms


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

Yesterday I listened to one of Furtwangler’s recordings of the First symphony with the BPO (from 1952, I believe); it was revelatory. So much power. It is certainly among the very strongest interpretations of the work I’ve heard. However, I wouldn’t recommend it to those new to the work, due to the dated sound.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

DrMike said:


> Two discs:
> German Requiem - Klemperer recording
> Piano Trios 1 & 2 - Suk, Katchen, Starker (this is my personal single favorite Brahms recording, and also one of my absolute favorite classical recordings, period. The Piano Trio No. 1 is amazing).


Trio No. 1 (Istomin/Stern/Rose on LP) began my love affair with chamber music.


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