# classical music and occultism?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Seem naive post, but sometime naive is a gentle honnest way...

Now bare whit me please im consider a mystic among my peers and i feell thee mystical way of seeing trought mysth do you understand this.

Ok now for the uttermost interresting part among classical composer ancient -today were consider mystic, ful blooded one.

If i go by era ars antiqua what your choice?

if i say ars vetus/ars nova?

Ars subtilior?

renaissance england and franco flemish? godz of polyphony?

amen to them, bless the music i says,thanks for reading this post any comment is welcome.

:tiphat:


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

I like your posts. At first I didn't understand them, but like Caviare they are an acquired taste worth cultivating.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

Scriabin. Black Mass.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I suspect Stravinsky was into the occult (probably the dark occult) - just a guess, no hard evidence. 

Titles like 'The Rite of Spring' and 'The Firebird' definitely have occult significance. Especially linking sacrifice with spring, that relates to the dark occult.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I'll comment on this thread as soon as my crystal ball tells me what to say. In the meantime, I'll be listening to music by Peter Warlock.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

SONNET CLV said:


> I'll comment on this thread as soon as my crystal ball tells me what to say. In the meantime, I'll be listening to music by Peter Warlock.


Ah yes, the artist formerly known as Philip Heseltine, possessor of possibly the mimsiest goatee beard in the history of western music. But his music's worth hearing, occult or not.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

tdc said:


> I suspect Stravinsky was into the occult (probably the dark occult) - just a guess, no hard evidence.
> 
> Titles like 'The Rite of Spring' and 'The Firebird' definitely have occult significance. Especially linking sacrifice with spring, that relates to the dark occult.


Stravinsky was a well-known Christian. Watch some of his video interviews on YouTube.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

regenmusic said:


> Stravinsky was a well-known Christian. Watch some of his video interviews on YouTube.


You could be right, but in general I think it is good to come to the realization that some "well-known Christians" are not what they seem, they are great liars just like the charismatic politicians you see on TV. But again I was just bringing Stravinsky up because of the occult references in those two works, whether or not he was involved in any of that or if it is just coincidence, I don't know. I absolutely could be wrong and as I've said before I don't have strong evidence.

One thing for certain, don't rule out the possibility that some so called Christians are actually Satanists or Luciferians. People that believe in the dark powers generally don't do it out in the open. They hide their true belief systems, and they are generally damn smart, charming and good at what they do.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I had an associate years ago who was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis. Best to stay away from anything that Aleister Crowley was involved in, in my view. As for music, some of Scelsi's is believed to be informed by occult knowledge but I have no idea whether that is true or not.


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Maybe too modern for our friend deprofundis,
anyway Sorabji is my first answer...


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## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

chill782002 said:


> I had an associate years ago who was a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis. Best to stay away from anything that Aleister Crowley was involved in, in my view. As for music, some of Scelsi's is believed to be informed by occult knowledge but I have no idea whether that is true or not.


Better stay away from me then.

What religion do you follow? Are you a hyper-conservative Christian? Aka "the occult is evil"

Cause if you are, I'm not able to respect your opinion


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

St Matthew said:


> Better stay away from me then.
> 
> What religion do you follow? Are you a hyper-conservative Christian? Aka "the occult is evil"
> 
> Cause if you are, I'm not able to respect your opinion


No, an extremely lapsed Anglican. I don't take the view that the occult is evil, per se, just that old Frater Perdurabo was involved in some fairly unsavoury things and that his particular school of the occult is not something to be taken lightly.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm a Christian* but interested in the occult. I don't think they are mutually exclusive at all, but I do think Crowley was a completely trash human being given the gift of self-promotion and salesmanship. I also think it's in the nature of occult to attract damaged or otherwise mal-adapted people, so that is immediately a turnoff to most people (the same could be said about quite a number of valuable fields of interest).

*Christian in that I believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> Seem naive post, but sometime naive is a gentle honnest way...
> 
> Now bare whit me please im consider a mystic among my peers and i feell thee mystical way of seeing trought mysth do you understand this.
> 
> ...


Fumeux fume par fumée.









This is Le Concert dans l'œuf, the original by Hieronymus Bosch. Note the achemist with the seive on his head with smoke coming out.

There's a classic paper on this (which I've never read  ) by Bruno Cerchio (Il suono filosofale, Libreria Musicale Italiana, Lucca,1993).


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

I think we'd have to define occult first but for convenience I would just say it's metaphysical or spiritual concepts that exist on the periphery of the major religions.

Definitely Scriabin and his barely-begun Mysterium:

_Scriabin intended the performance to be in the foothills of the Himalayas in India, a week-long event that would be followed by the end of the world and the replacement of the human race with "nobler beings"._

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysterium_(Scriabin)

Holst wrote the Planets suite as being based on the mystical significance of the planets/ what they symbolize in Vedic thinking. Which is basically akin to astrology.

Dane Rudyhar was a composer turned astrologer.

I would think of Wagner as being a quasi-mystical philosopher, like other German-speaking thinkers around that time he was pre-occupied with Buddhist ideas and other assorted metaphysical concepts from India.

Cesar Franck was supposedly a mystic of some variety.

I read something in passing about Satie and Messaien subscribing to the mystical facets of whatever their religious sects were.

I guess many of these would not be considered "occult" but they are each mystical in their own respect.


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## classical yorkist (Jun 29, 2017)

I believe that Satie was involved in Rosicrucianism. There have also been rumours re. Debussy and the Rosicrucian order but they are far from definite.


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