# Carmina Burana



## theclassicalguy

Hello all,

I have been ona quest to find the 'perfect' recording of Orff's Carmina Burana and so far I haven't found it. 

I currently own Donald Runnicles version with Atlanta, but the O Fortuna chorus sounds like it was recorded in the next room. I also have Andre Previn's famous recording, but I don't like some of his tempi. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks!


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## Tapkaara

I have always been partial to Slatkin/St Louis.


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## Atabey

Orff himself approved of Jochum's recording as the way he wanted it to sound.


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## david johnson

R. Frühbeck de Burgos /New Philharmonia Orchestra


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## Chi_townPhilly

I grew up on the Michael Tilson-Thomas Cleveland Orchestra recording- enjoyed it a lot! However, I've seen it criticized for "artificial-sounding" recording. I didn't notice this... but then again a) I acquired it as an LP in the age-of-vinyl, and b) I was a teen-ager at the time!


Tapkaara said:


> I have always been partial to Slatkin/St Louis.


Yup/yup! That's a good one! The one I keep going back to, though, is *Ormandy/Philadelphia*!


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## bassClef

I like Jochum the best, and I've tried about 10 different interpretations. 

Mind you that may be because it's the interpretation I first heard and got used to 20 odd years ago - all other interpretations sound odd, especially the roasting swan!. 

But I've recently got the Jochum on CD and the performance is indeed superb.


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## SixFootScowl

I got this one from a library sale for 50 cents and tried it and tossed it aside. Maybe because I am so focused into opera it didn't click for me, but now on a second listen I am thinking that it is not so bad. I was going to try selling it to Dearborn Music but now am thinking to maybe keep it around. 









:lol: SCORE! Another ancient thread dragged up!


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## bigshot

I'm not the biggest fan of this piece, but Ormandy performs it in a way that doesn't make it sound too ignorant.


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## Becca

Florestan said:


> I got this one from a library sale for 50 cents and tried it and tossed it aside. Maybe because I am so focused into opera it didn't click for me, but now on a second listen I am thinking that it is not so bad. I was going to try selling it to Dearborn Music but now am thinking to maybe keep it around.


That is one of the Ormandy recordings which I used to own and which persuaded me to avoid him in the future. The reason is the markings in the score that he completely ignored.

My current choice is Herbert Blomstedt and the San Francisco Symphony.


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## SixFootScowl

Becca said:


> That is one of the Ormandy recordings which I used to own and which persuaded me to avoid him in the future. The reason is the markings in the score that he completely ignored.
> 
> My current choice is Herbert Blomstedt and the San Francisco Symphony.


I am afraid I cannot get rid of it unless I try to give it away. It has some scuffing and Dearborn Music won't buy it with scuffing. Ah well. It could be worse. At least it is not the one with the cover image of people relaxing by a pool at a nudist camp.


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## chill782002

Further to other posts, the 1967 Eugen Jochum for me.


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## Heck148

Not a favorite of mine - I've played it tons of times, it does get old, or 'trite" sounding, at least to me.

Try Tilson-Thomas/Cleveland or
Levine/CSO from Ravinia...


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## Adamus

https://www.amazon.com/Carmina-Bura...=1494017638&sr=8-1&keywords=stuttgart+carmina 2 pianos and percussion


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## Heck148

My favorite Carmina Burana music is the five pieces set for 2ble Wind 5tet, by one of Orff's students, with the composer's oversight....very cool stuff - reminiscent of Stravinsky in the Octet, "L'Histoire" mode -


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## Vaneyes




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## Pugg

Muti on EMI/ Frühbeck de Burgos/ and Christian Thielemann, for me


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## Merl

Like Blomstedt, Thielemann and Rattle a lot. Not listened to them for a bit.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Jochum on DG or Ormandy on Sony


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## Becca

As I have noted elsewhere, the Ormandy was my introduction to Carmina Burana, and was fine until I heard some other recordings and noticed some tempi changes that Ormandy totally ignored that made a difference - and yes, they are in the score.


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## Holden4th

I've got the Previn (EMI) and the Ormandy and both are great recordings. Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recently recorded this and while a lot of it is great, something went wrong with the sound engineering.


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## wkasimer

david johnson said:


> R. Frühbeck de Burgos /New Philharmonia Orchestra


This one's my favorite, too - but be sure to buy the most recent issue; EMI screwed it up the first couple of times on CD.


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## wkasimer

A couple of others that I really enjoy are Eduardo Mata's and Seiji Ozawa's, both on RCA.


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## mahlernerd

Tapkaara said:


> I have always been partial to Slatkin/St Louis.


I am going to see Slatkin perform Carmina Burana with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra in a couple of weeks.


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## Rogerx

mahlernerd said:


> I am going to see Slatkin perform Carmina Burana with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra in a couple of weeks.


Let us know how it was.


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> A couple of others that I really enjoy are Eduardo Mata's and Seiji Ozawa's, both on RCA.


Mata's has a stellar cast and I like that one a lot too but Mata wasn't a great conductor and he loses control at times. With a much better conductor and better recorded sound (the dynamic range on that recording is ridiculous) it would probably be at the top of the pile.


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## erki

I have been on the same quest many years ago. Most of the recordings(specially American) were too mellow to my taste or I just disliked the voices. Out of many I like this(probably on LP only):

Celestina Casapietra / Horst Hiestermann / Karl-Heinz Stryczek
Leipzig Radio Chorus / Rundfunkchor Leipzig
Leipzig Radio Orchestra / Rundfunk-Sinfonie-Orchester Leipzig
Herbert Kegel

original ETERNA recording, 1975

I vote for Levine/CSO as well. I have it on CD DDD 0289 415 1362 5 GH, 1985.


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## Rogerx

Perhaps not the most refined but spectacular recorded.


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## Merl

Rogerx said:


> Perhaps not the most refined but spectacular recorded.


I've always championed this one. I think it's a bit vulgar but that's the point of this piece and as you say the sound is tremendous. One of my top 3, as I posted earlier in this thread.


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## Joachim Raff

Blomstedt's version is the one for me


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## CnC Bartok

I recently re-listened to Andre Previn on EMI, a sort of memorial listen to a very very fine conductor and musician. Sadly I found it underwhelming, maybe I wasn't in the right mood, but there remains a lot more bounce and oomph in Eugen Jochum's stereo DGG account, which remains my favourite.

I have two slightly off the beaten track versions among my collection that I'd recommend if available. Both are on Supraphon, an older and excellent one (part of the Trittico) under Vaclav Smetáček, and a later very good one under Gaetano Delogu, which is superbly recorded too.


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## adriesba

Yes! I went searching for a thread like this, and it has been brought back from its sleep recently :lol:

My favorite is the Jochum recording. 
My second favorite is the Welser-Möst recording which I believe is terribly underrated.
Other recordings (at least of ones I've heard) give me various levels of satisfaction. The worst one I've heard though has to be the 1992 Ozawa recording. It's awfully bland and has some terrible audio editing at the end of "Dulcissime". 

By the way, does anyone know if the picture with all the people at the table on the album art of the Jochum recording is an actual painting or if it was simply made for the recording?


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## Bigbang

Merl said:


> Mata's has a stellar cast and I like that one a lot too but Mata wasn't a great conductor and he loses control at times. With a much better conductor and better recorded sound (the dynamic range on that recording is ridiculous) it would probably be at the top of the pile.


I bought it recently for nothing, listened to it and was impressed on first hearing. Given the recordings I have I put in my top 3. The other two are Levine Chicago and R. Frühbeck de Burgos /New Philharmonia Orchestra. The rest...Ormandy, Slatkin, Dorati, and some I cannot recall are more, like just OK--Nothing special.


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## Bigbang

erki said:


> I have been on the same quest many years ago. Most of the recordings(specially American) were too mellow to my taste or I just disliked the voices. Out of many I like this(probably on LP only):
> 
> Celestina Casapietra / Horst Hiestermann / Karl-Heinz Stryczek
> Leipzig Radio Chorus / Rundfunkchor Leipzig
> Leipzig Radio Orchestra / Rundfunk-Sinfonie-Orchester Leipzig
> Herbert Kegel
> 
> original ETERNA recording, 1975
> 
> I vote for Levine/CSO as well. I have it on CD DDD 0289 415 1362 5 GH, 1985.


I first exposure to Carmina Burana was Levine/CSO. June Anderson (soprano) is the best of any that I have heard, really nails it. The tenor and baritone may be over the top in some ways but it works for me and often judge other Carmina Burana by these standards. I still own the audio cassette aside from owing the CD.


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## erki

I listened many Youtube versions(mostly "O Fortuna") of recordings mentioned here. What really stand out as different in interesting way is Eduardo Mata 1981 BMG Music version. He articulates the strings in very nice and clear way whereas usually this has been let go rather mushy and emphasised on vocal only. First time I noticed how good the string part sounds.


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## Rogerx

Now, this is fun, watching and listening.


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## flamencosketches

How did this work come to be such a major repertoire piece? It sounds nothing like anything else in the repertoire, but if I had to make a connection, it has some things in common with certain works of middle-period Stravinsky, and with Hindemith. Moreover, nothing else Orff wrote ever came close in success. 

I have one recording, Blomstedt/SFS. I'm OK with it, not seeking out another at this time, but I would like to eventually hear the Jochum.


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## Rogerx

flamencosketches said:


> How did this work come to be such a major repertoire piece? It sounds nothing like anything else in the repertoire, but if I had to make a connection, it has some things in common with certain works of middle-period Stravinsky, and with Hindemith. Moreover, nothing else Orff wrote ever came close in success.
> 
> I have one recording, Blomstedt/SFS. I'm OK with it, not seeking out another at this time, but I would like to eventually hear the Jochum.


Mainly through the intro, used in so many movies and commercials.


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## erki

flamencosketches said:


> Moreover, nothing else Orff wrote ever came close in success.


When I was exposed to Carmina I quickly gathered as many of his works as possible(bought all the LPs with Orff written on the cover). And indeed none of these ever had any significant impact on me. Catulli Carmina and Trionfo di Afrodite were OK, but the opera Der Mond I hardly ever played all the way through.
We did a video installation for a Carmina performance few years back and I had to listen the music literally hundreds of times to sync the picture to the music resulting our 12 year old son to hum these melodies everywhere. And I never got really bored or annoyed. So there must be something that is so acceptable to so many. Very similar to Bizet Carmen that all know well but are willing to hear again and again.


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## HenryPenfold

..................


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## HenryPenfold

...................


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## HenryPenfold

This ........... is best version


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## Heck148

I've played this work many times, and have to admit, it has worn pretty thin with me...I thinks it's the repetitious, sing-songy melodies, over and over, that did it in for me...certain movements are interesting, but too much saccharine sweet in-between.
My favorite form of this music is the excellent arrangement of 5 of the numbers, arranged for 2ble wind 5tet by one of Orff's students, with the composer's approval.


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## adriesba

Rogerx said:


> Now, this is fun, watching and listening.


I saw that on YouTube. It's interesting and... quite weird in some places might I add. Things get cringeworthy at "Tempus est iocundum".


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## adriesba

flamencosketches said:


> How did this work come to be such a major repertoire piece? It sounds nothing like anything else in the repertoire, but if I had to make a connection, it has some things in common with certain works of middle-period Stravinsky, and with Hindemith. Moreover, nothing else Orff wrote ever came close in success.
> 
> I have one recording, Blomstedt/SFS. I'm OK with it, not seeking out another at this time, but I would like to eventually hear the Jochum.


I think _Carmina Burana_ is loved for its simplicity (I'm sure someone else has said that before). Orff's other works just tend to be a bit too weird to be approachable for many people.

Definitely try the Jochum recording. It's a classic.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I see it as just a piece of pure fun. Drinking songs, irreverent satire, love ballads; all cast in very easy-to-follow melody lines and chants. Nothing profound (despite the apparent philosophical undertones), just meant to convey a carefree love of life. I've only heard Jochum, but I really can't see how any performance could mess it up badly enough, or how interpretive customs could differ to such a degree to warrant owning/hearing a fistful of versions like most works.


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## adriesba

HenryPenfold said:


> This ........... is best version


Oh my. 

Good thing I've listened to "O Fortuna" and read the words enough times to know what the Latin words actually sound like. Otherwise I may get this stuck in my head! :lol:


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## adriesba

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I see it as just a piece of pure fun. Drinking songs, irreverent satire, love ballads; all cast in very easy-to-follow melody lines and chants. Nothing profound (despite the apparent philosophical undertones), just meant to convey a carefree love of life. I've only heard Jochum, but I really can't see how any performance could mess it up badly enough, or how interpretive customs could differ to such a degree to warrant owning/hearing a fistful of versions like most works.


Maybe I'm reading into it a bit much, but I see it a bit more profoundly (and morbidly perhaps :lol. I see it as a representation of humankind's most basic emotions. It shows what humans are debased to when morals are taken out of the equation. The texts describe those who have adopted a sort of "eat, drink, and be merry" lifestyle, with little morality involved. It shows through its simplicity the vanity of their lifestyle and the consequence of such. Thus, humankind are like animals, forced to spin around the wheel of Fortuna for the rest of their lives. Beginning and ending the piece with "O Fortuna" symbolizes that whatever times of happiness one experiences can disappear at any moment.

The story (basically what the Ponnelle video depicts) tells of the experiences of a man who has been brought to the bottom. Spring comes, and he begins to feel hopeful and amorous. He is interested in a certain woman. He enters the tavern and reflects on his life. When he comes out, he despairs over his fears of not being able to be with the woman he likes. He resolves to even go to extreme measures to satisfy his desire for her, but he doesn't have to. Little does he know. the woman has been contemplating whether or not she should return his interest. She decides to join him, and they rejoice. But just as they begin their time together, Fortuna spins the wheel again. Will they end up at the top or bottom?

Anyway, that's how I see it, but there are many ways to interpret it. Your less morbid interpretation is just as valid. Great works of art often hold various meanings. That's why I like the piece.

It's fun to hear different performances, but, if you have the Jochum recodring and are satisfied, that's probably enough.


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## adriesba

I just listened to the Michael Tilson Thomas recording on Google Play. I think it's my third favorite now. The first thing I noticed was that the piano seemed to be emphasized more. The words seem to be pronounced more clearly than in other recordings, but maybe it's just the sound quality or microphone placement or something. The tempi chosen were unique, and overall the work was presented in a unique color so to say. Unfortunately, the cd seems to be going out of print/circulation. Better get one soon!


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## mahlernerd

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I see it as just a piece of pure fun. Drinking songs, irreverent satire, love ballads; all cast in very easy-to-follow melody lines and chants. Nothing profound (despite the apparent philosophical undertones), just meant to convey a carefree love of life. I've only heard Jochum, but I really can't see how any performance could mess it up badly enough, or how interpretive customs could differ to such a degree to warrant owning/hearing a fistful of versions like most works.


What I really find fascinating is how Orff takes simple melodies and harmonies that are not complex in the slightest way, and turns them into one of the most memorable pieces of music ever written. Excited to hear it be performed this week!

P.S. I LOVE the Sir Charles Mackerras and Bournemouth Symphony recording on Erato.


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## adriesba

mahlernerd said:


> What I really find fascinating is how Orff takes simple melodies and harmonies that are not complex in the slightest way, and turns them into one of the most memorable pieces of music ever written. Excited to hear it be performed this week!
> 
> P.S. I LOVE the Sir Charles Mackerras and Bournemouth Symphony recording on Erato.


Yes! That sounds fun.  I've never seen it live. I can't remember hearing about it ever being performed around here. Hopefully the local orchestras will do it soon!

\/ Is this the album you are talking about?

View attachment 131450


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## mahlernerd

adriesba said:


> Yes! That sounds fun.  I've never seen it live. I can't remember hearing about it ever being performed around here. Hopefully the local orchestras will do it soon!
> 
> \/ Is this the album you are talking about?
> 
> View attachment 131450


Yes, it's a fantastic interpretation!


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