# What You Can Hear That I Cannot



## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

I am compelled by an earlier discussion on music appreciation that talked about the difference of perception by musicians and non-musicians.
I am 67 years of age and sadly have succumbed to the family malady of high frequency hearing loss, (about 80%). So, when I hear the pieces I know, of course, my brain can fill in the gaps in my listening. What I have discovered is those old familiar friends sound intriguingly new, because I am picking up on sections playing the lower registers. It's almost as I have discovered a new composition. My mind is saying, "Wow, I did not now the cellos, bassoons, trombones, etc. had so much to say in this piece." 

My question is twofold: Does anyone else with hearing loss share this observation? and, are musicians in their sections, or their knowledge of their part in a larger work conscious of the whole beyond their own playing? Do they hear the music as their role? Do they understand the sound of all the others as well?

Sorry for the length of this inquiry. Because of that it may not get many responses. I will seek out hearing aids that are affordable I do love this forum so much. So many wonderful people with unique observations.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I have a bit of tinnitus, but no major hearing loss.

I've always been able to deconstruct music, especially Progressive Rock, hearing all the different elements as they're played. 

As a pianist and pianist/conductor, I'm often very aware of what else is going on, especially as when I'm playing with others, I need to hear what they're all doing so that I know what to leave out when reading the orchestral transcription for piano, and to be able to cue them in when needed.


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## verandai (Dec 10, 2021)

I also have tinnitus since I'm a teenager, but I've learned to ignore it mostly. Luckily now I only notice it when I pay attention to it, it doesn't disturb listening to music for me.

When playing music with others, I could hear what was going on pretty early (also when others made mistakes). But I've played with many musicians (other amateurs) who weren't capable to do so. They had a harder time jumping onto the train again after they made mistakes. I think for composing it's a necessity (hearing what's going on around you).

But it's nice that you can imagine the parts of the music which are now missing. That's not a granted skill!

Good luck finding a matching equipment!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

PeterKC said:


> My question is twofold: Does anyone else with hearing loss share this observation? and, are musicians in their sections, or their knowledge of their part in a larger work conscious of the whole beyond their own playing? Do they hear the music as their role? Do they understand the sound of all the others as well?


In my late 60s, I too have some high frequency hearing loss: it's natural although having played in orchestras for so many years can't have helped. That's one reason I am reluctant to offer evaluations of audio gear or recordings: is what I hear what someone younger with their hearing intact would hear? I doubt it. 

One of the things that separates good orchestral players from poor ones is the ability to hear what's going on around them and adapt, adjust and help out. It's not an easy thing to do, but it's very important. It can be taught to an extent, but it takes a conductor who knows how to train his players. Now, if a player is barely coping with the notes on the page then listening to others and seeing how his part fits in is going to be a low priority. There's a bassoonist in town who nobody wants to play with: everything is loud, he pays no attention to phrasing, has little sense of rhythm and will never give a cents or two in matters of tuning. His tuner, which is always on, is the law! and by golly he's perfect. But he's often so flat that tuning the wind section is impossible. That's one reason why playing chamber music is so much fun and so important: you learn to give and take, to work together to make music.

As far as their role in a work goes, that's something else that all too few musicians are aware of. A good player should always be thinking "how does my part fit into the whole"? But, alas, most don't. That aspect of music was drilled into me at a young age by my teachers and whenever I'm asked to play a work that's new to me, or even one I haven't played in a while, I get a score and read through it and figure out how my part fits in, what I have to listen for, what other section(s) I have to work with. Right now I've been working on the Copland 3rd. I'm weird, I know. There aren't many of us out there that do this.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

I've had pretty serious high frequency loss since I was a baby - got the mumps at a very young age, resulting in mid-ear damage. It always had been a handicap, since it affects your ability to follow conversations and to pick out voices in a noisy environment. It still didn't prevent me from choosing a career in music, though.
As for hearing aids, I tried several and found them unusable, since they partly block the frequency range that I'm perfectly able to hear, the mids and lows - replacing it with an electronic, distorted image of that range. If there would be a kind of hearing aid that just ramps up the highs and leaves the rest alone, I'd go for it.
I found that, if the loss is severe, up to 80% in my case (not the same for both ears), every attempt to boost those remaining 20% up to say, 40% results in serious distortion of the frequency range that should be left alone. It's just not worth the trouble, alas. But your case could be different, of course.


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

PeterKC said:


> [...] Are musicians in their sections, or their knowledge of their part in a larger work conscious of the whole beyond their own playing? Do they hear the music as their role? Do they understand the sound of all the others as well?


Yes they are, or at least they should. This is one quality difference among orchestras and musicians.

Sure, if you play the flute you're more aware of the trombone part than the other way.

Listening to the other musicians is all-important, obviously to start on time, and to balance the voices. The conductor can't do everything. This is one capability of the musicians that saves time at rehearsing.


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