# Why do some composers slow down and then stop composing?



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Some composers give up the drive to compose. Is it because they can't live up to the legend they form of themselves in later life? Seems to me all composers write music that is somewhat mediocre and I don't come back to it. All ones we remember have their gems. Perhaps they develop an unbalanced view of themselves? What are your ideas?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Can you name some? Only Rossini comes to mind. Composers, like writers, playwrights, visual artists, etc. come in two types: Artists and artists. artists create because threy _can_ and are good at it. Artists create because they _must_ and are driven to do so, usually until they die, or are too feeble to continue. At some points in my life I have been a writer. But I have never been a Writer.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

really? The later works of a lot of composers are some of the best works they did. What, nobody likes late Beethoven piano sonatas anymore??

but there's so many things that can go into why someone's output drops off. Changes in health, fortunes of employment, war, famine, revolutions...there is no way to say in general terms...BUT

if somebody is driven to compose, they aren't likely to take the idea that they can't live up to their own reputation. That's just not how artists think. So no, I think you are way off.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I'd say almost all composers keep getting better right until they die.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

MarkW said:


> Can you name some? Only Rossini comes to mind. Composers, like writers, playwrights, visual artists, etc. come in two types: Artists and artists. artists create because threy _can_ and are good at it. Artists create because they _must_ and are driven to do so, usually until they die, or are too feeble to continue. At some points in my life I have been a writer. But I have never been a Writer.


Elgar and Sibelius are examples of this. Both of them basically stopped composing in later life.

As far as I know, neither of them ever explained why. Of course, many people have speculated about possible reasons. In Elgar's case, I've read that his loss of inspiration may been caused in part by his wife's death in 1920.

As for Sibelius, it's possible that he was afraid of tarnishing his reputation by writing anything substandard. He might have felt that his mind was no longer sharp enough to allow him to produce masterpieces, due to the effects of advancing age.

Again, though, this is basically tabloid-style speculation , since there seems to be very little evidence to support any of these hypotheses.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Brahms was thinking of retiring from composing, that he had "said" all he had to say, but thanks to Meiningen clarinetist Richard Mühlfeld, whom Brahms spent hours listening to, instead of retiring, was inspired to write some of his most engaging works, the Clarinet Trio, the Clarinet Quintet and finally 3 years later, the magnificent two Clarinet Sonatas.

Sibelius gave up the ghost relatively early. Perhaps he simply ran out of worthy creative ideas.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

To my understanding Sibelius was struggling with the 8th symphony to his end. Maybe he wasn't brave enough to do whatever he wanted, he was heavily criticized for being too traditional. Maybe he wasn't badass like R. Strauss who showed his middle finger to the world and composed whatever was in his mind. Or who knows... maybe Sibelius just run out of juice.

This about it... you've gotta have some balls to do something like this in 1942:  R. Strauss: Horn Concerto no 2


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I think Sibelius regarded his music as no longer relevant to the world he was living in


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Charles Ives stopped composing music in the early-1920s, and he lived until 1955.

I think Ives' deteriorating health played a significant role in his inability to compose in his later life. Ives himself was befuddled and saddened by it.

As a result, he spent most of his later years promoting his music, instead of composing. Until then, practically NO ONE had heard _any_ of it.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Bettina said:


> Elgar and Sibelius are examples of this. Both of them basically stopped composing in later life.
> 
> As far as I know, neither of them ever explained why. Of course, many people have speculated about possible reasons. In Elgar's case, I've read that his loss of inspiration may been caused in part by his wife's death in 1920.


While he did little after his wife's death Elgar was persuaded to start work on a third symphony via a 1933 BBC commission. He worked on it for about a year until his death, leaving substantial sketches.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Lenny said:


> To my understanding Sibelius *was struggling with the 8th symphony to his end*. [/URL]


There is considerable evidence that Sibelius had finished his 8th symphony by 1938. Whether he did more on it after that is unknown, what is known is that he destroyed the score in 1945, 12 years before his death. Apparently a few fragments might have survived - I say 'might' because they have not been absolutely confirmed as being from the symphony.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

A good counter-example is Vaughan Williams, who had an remarkably productive last few years.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Copland stopped composing around 1970, though he lived until 1990. He said that it was as if a faucet had been turned off. Leonard Bernstein wrote:

_But then, after the war, the Schoenberg syndrome took hold and was heartily embraced by the young, who gradually stopped flocking to Aaron; the effect on him--and therefore on American music--was heartbreaking. . . . When [Aaron] started writing twelve-tone I figured that it was inevitable. . . . But still I asked him, 'Of all people, why you--you who are so instinctive, so spontaneous? Why are you bothering with tone rows and with the rules of retrograde and inversion, all that?' And he answered me, 'Because I need more chords. I've run out of chords.' And that lasted for four more pieces and then he didn't write any more. How sad for him. How awful for us._


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A similar situation with Ives: "According to his wife, one day in early 1927 Ives came downstairs with tears in his eyes. He could compose no more, he said, 'nothing sounds right.' " (Wiki)


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> I'd say almost all composers keep getting better right until they die.


Best answer on this thread.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I think Sibelius regarded his music as no longer relevant to the world he was living in


That is my understanding too. The 20th century and its innovations led to the end of lots of careers and declines of formerly solid reputations. It happened in the visual arts with a lot of artists who persisted in producing strictly realistic work. Some stuck to their guns, some gave up.

Incidentally, I wonder whether this happened to Bruch? He was very much a 19th century romantic, but lived until 1920 or thereabouts...

And then there is Rachmaninoff, who didn't produce much after leaving Russia, but when he did, he did some pretty great stuff, romantic yet informed by the 20th century. The Symphonic Dances come to mind.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bruch wasn't defeated by the 20th century but by his inability to write really widely-selling music after his 1st Violin Concerto. He had sold the score to Simrock for a song, and after WWI found himself destitute. He sent his own autograph to the Sutro sisters in America to promote and send him money, but was cheated even of this.

Rachmaninoff truly had something of a renaissance late in life, writing not only the Symphonic Dances but the Symphony No. 3 and the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

I recently read (where?) that it was the booze that did for Sibelius's productivity.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

jenspen said:


> I recently read (where?) that it was the booze that did for Sibelius's productivity.


Alex Ross? "The Rest is Noise"


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

jenspen said:


> I recently read (where?) that it was the booze that did for Sibelius's productivity.


Alcohol was an ongoing problem for Sibelius.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Some composers slow down, stop composing and begin decomposing.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Rossini didn't retire from composing, only from writing operas , before he had turned 40 . But he wrote numerous piano pieces, such as the "Sins of my old age," the Stabat Mater , Petit Messe Solonelle , which are not trifles , and a variety of other pieces . I performed a work of his for horn and piano many years ago at a recital which is a fun piece . I can't recall the title offhand . 
Rossini's later years were far from unproductive . apparently, Copland developed Alzheimer's disease in his later years , and the exact reasons why Sibelius abandoned composition are not entirely clear . 
Alcoholism and depression were definite factors, though , and he is known to have destroyed a number of works he wrote after his 7th symphony . 
Could these works have been worth saving, even masterpieces ? We'll never know. But his wife Aino said that he felt greatly relieved and his depression lifted after he burned them . Composer's aren't always the best judges of their own music . The mysterious, phantom 8th symphony will forever remain a mystery .


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Bruch wasn't defeated by the 20th century but by his inability to write really widely-selling music after his 1st Violin Concerto. He had sold the score to Simrock for a song, and after WWI found himself destitute. He sent his own autograph to the Sutro sisters in America to promote and send him money, but was cheated even of this.


And thus, a rather sad end to an actually quite wonderful composer - he wrote far, far more than that blasted violin concerto, and I have yet to hear anything by him that I don't like.



Becca said:


> Alcohol was an ongoing problem for Sibelius.


Now, now, how could alcohol possibly be a problem?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Now, now, how could alcohol possibly be a problem?


Alcohol was never a problem for Sibelius. He could get it just about anywhere. (Old joke, sorry.)


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

brianvds said:


> And thus, a rather sad end to an actually quite wonderful composer - he wrote far, far more than that blasted violin concerto, and I have yet to hear anything by him that I don't like.
> 
> Now, now, how could alcohol possibly be a problem?


Alcohol is good for driving cars and running engines but driving human beings doesn't work so well.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Bruch wasn't defeated by the 20th century but by his inability to write really widely-selling music after his 1st Violin Concerto. He had sold the score to Simrock for a song, and after WWI found himself destitute. He sent his own autograph to the Sutro sisters in America to promote and send him money, but was cheated even of this.


Yes, I see this on the Wiki page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Bruch ):

_To this triple output he added three orchestral suites in later life, of which the third has a remarkable history. The origin can be found in Capri, where Bruch had witnessed a procession in which a tuba played a tune that "could very well be the basis of a funeral march", and would be the basis of this suite, finished in 1909. The Sutro sisters, however, had asked Bruch for a concerto specifically for them, which he produced by arranging this suite into a double piano concerto, but only to be played within the Americas and not beyond. The Concerto in A-flat minor for Two Pianos and Orchestra, Op. 88a, was finished in 1912 for the American duo Sutro pianists Rose and Ottilie Sutro, but was never played in the original version. They performed the work only twice, in two different versions of their own. The score was withdrawn in 1917 and rediscovered only after Ottilie Sutro's death in 1970. The sisters also played a major part in the fate of the manuscript of the Violin Concerto No. 1. Bruch sent it to them to be sold in the United States, but they kept it and sold it for profit themselves._

Rather unpleasant sisters! But it looks like there was some appreciation for his work well into the 20th century. He's one of those on my personal list of underrated composers; as I mentioned before, I have yet to hear anything he wrote that isn't a joy to listen to.

Incidentally, as I understand it he was an enthusiastic fan of Brahms; I wonder if the admiration ran both ways?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

A truly sad case is that of Maurice Ravel. Following a 1932 injury in a taxi accident, Ravel essentially stopped composing--this after the triumphs of the two wonderful piano concertos. Think of what else we might have heard from this composer, though there are hints that he was beginning to suffer from certain mental deficiencies before the accident--early-onset dementia possibly? So his last 4-5 years were spent in decline and despair, and he died in 1937, following a failed operation to help his condition.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> A truly sad case is that of Maurice Ravel. Following a 1932 injury in a taxi accident, Ravel essentially stopped composing--this after the triumphs of the two wonderful piano concertos. Think of what else we might have heard from this composer, though there are hints that he was beginning to suffer from certain mental deficiencies before the accident--early-onset dementia possibly? So his last 4-5 years were spent in decline and despair, and he died in 1937, following a failed operation to help his condition.


At the time, neither diagnosis nor surgery was very advanced, but it looks like without it he would have continued to decline anyway. Indeed a sad case.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Prokofiev was another sad case. In early 1948 he was attacked for his 6th Symphony under the Zhdanov Decree and took it badly. His works, even those not directly proscribed, were no longer played and he fell deeply into debt. At the same time his wife was arrested and sentenced to 20 years at hard labor in the Gulag for "espionage," trying to send some money to her mother in Spain. Earlier he had already had a bad a fall and incurred a debilitating injury. He still managed to write his fine cello sonata, the Symphony-Concerto for Cello, and the 7th Symphony, but his characteristic exuberance seemed to be extinguished. He died in 1953 on the same day as Stalin, aged 61. His death passed almost unnoticed, meriting only a brief notice on page 116 of the leading Soviet musical periodical of the time.

Think about poor Sergei next time you're having a "bad day."


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Prokofiev was another sad case. In early 1948 he was attacked for his 6th Symphony under the Zhdanov Decree and took it badly. His works, even those not directly proscribed, were no longer played and he fell deeply into debt. At the same time his wife was arrested and sentenced to 20 years at hard labor in the Gulag for "espionage," trying to send some money to her mother in Spain. Earlier he had already had a bad a fall and incurred a debilitating injury. He still managed to write his fine cello sonata, the Symphony-Concerto for Cello, and the 7th Symphony, but his characteristic exuberance seemed to be extinguished. He died in 1953 on the same day as Stalin, aged 61. His death passed almost unnoticed, meriting only a brief notice on page 116 of the leading Soviet musical periodical of the time.
> 
> Think about poor Sergei next time you're having a "bad day."


Between 1947 and his death in 1953, Prokofiev completed Op. 118, the Stone Flower ballet, through Op.131, the Seventh Symphony, despite being increasingly warned off composing by his doctors, as he suffered not surprisingly from extreme hypertension. To what degree his essential abandonment of his wife Lina to the mercies of the Soviet state, while taking up with new partner/"wife" Mira Mendelssohn, bothered Prokofiev is not clear. But Mira Mendelssohn wrote that P continued to have big plans for new and revised compositions up until the day he died, listing Op. 132 through 138 as works in progress inside his head. These included two more piano sonatas, two pieces for 'cello, and a 6th piano concerto, for two pianos, as well as revised versions of the 2nd symphony and the 5th piano sonata. So he remained a Busy Bee right up to the end, though maybe not as busy as in younger days.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Now I recall the name of the Rossini piece for horn and piano : Prelude, theme and variations for horn and piano .


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