# Mahler Symphonies



## Josiah

I wanted to buy some recording of a Mahler symphony or a set. Any suggestions?


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## Itullian

for an emotional, no holes barred approach, i recommend Bernstein's Sony set.
his DG set is available cheaply now too.

the Sony is like being in the 20th row, the DG is like being up front.

for a direct approach the Kubelik on DG is an excellent set.

to start off with one symphony, i suggest number 1 by either Kubelik or Bernstein.

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Sympho...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328770277&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Comple...=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1328770277&sr=1-3

i'd go with one of these 2 as the Kubelik is rather expensive right now for some reason.


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## joen_cph

You´ll probably be able to get dozens of various recommendations, but overall I agree with post above, Kubelik or Bernstein. If budget is an issue, and a cheap Tennstedt or Gergiev turns up, they are also good. The 5th or the 2nd symphonies are of course good places to start listening. Later on you might feel an interest in getting more recordings which put the works in a slightly different light.

Almost all symphony sets don´t include the completed 10th symphony, they only have the 1st movement from that work. Go for a completed version as a supplement, for instance conducted by Wigglesworth or Rattle. It is one of the most fantastic works by Mahler. 

And also get the Das Lied von der Erde, for instance in the Bernstein+Israel Philharmonic, or the Karajan recording. I am normally not a fan of the playing of the Israel PO, but that recording is my preferred, also if compared to Klemperer´s famous EMI stereo.


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## Olias

Another vote for Bernstein.


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## elgar's ghost

It's a very crowded field so there will be no shortage of suggestions! I'm sure there are existing threads which you can refer to but as I'm here I thought I'd chime in. 

Should you start with the 5th (which, on the whole, is one of his more accessible symphonies) I recommend Barshai's recording with the Junge Deutsche Philharmonie as there is an edition on the Brilliant Classics label which has the advantage of including a fine performance of Barshai's own arrangement of the 10th. If you prefer a stand-alone 5th there are loads of reasonably-priced options, none of which will let you down - Karajan on DG, Bernstein's VPO recording on DG, Barbirolli on EMI, Schwarz on Everest...

Should you however take the plunge and buy a box set then the aforementioned Kubelik set of 1-9 (DG) is worth considering and not particularly wallet-shredding, and then complete the picture with Ormandy's 10th with the Philadelphia PO (Sony) or Rattle's with the Berlin PO (EMI). There are many fine Das Lied's (a vocal symphony in all but name) - the Klemperer (EMI) and Horenstein (BBC - if you can source a reasonably-priced copy) are very well-regarded.

Whichever way you approach it I hope you enjoy yourself - getting to grips with Mahler's works has been one of my favourite classical experiences and if his music clicks with you as it did for me then you're in for a great journey!


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## itywltmt

*My 2 cents*

I echo the above sentiments.

You may want to browse this page: http://gustavmahler.net.free.fr/us.html

As *elgar's ghosts *pointed out, it is a crowded field, and there are indeed two approaches here: buy a set or buy them individually.

I own two sets:

- The above-mentioned *Kubelik/DG *set of the early 1960's (read my musings here)
- The *Chailly/Concertgebouw *digital set oin Decca (which is budget-priced)

The sets by *Solti/Chicago *on Decca and the *two Bernstrein sets *(The CBS set with the NY Philharmonic and his later DG set with many orchestras) are also excellent.

The advantage of going for the "set" Vs the "individuals" is the unity of vision, consistency in recording quality and, as *Jeremy Marchant *once suggested, there is something to be said about the Mahler Symophonies _fitting into a greater scheme_ (*Jeremy, if you read this, can you repeat what you write last year on the "three groups" of Mahler Symphonies following a symophonic pattern. because I won't be able to find it...*)

For me, the Chailly set is an excellent display of _unity of vision_, and for the price and overall quality of the set, that's where's I'd spend my money if I were you.

As for "individual" performances, everybody has an opinion, but my peresonal favourites are *Bernstein *foir the 3rd (NY Phil, DG), *Klemperer *for the 2nd (Philharmonia, EMI), *Hermann Scherchen* for the 5th (Wiener Staatsoper Orchestra, Westminster), *Solti *for the 8th (Chicago, Decca), *Sanderling *for the 9th (Berlin Symphony, Berlin Classics).

As stated before, there are some "additional" works that are pertinent to any Mahler cycle:

- _Das Lied von der Erde_ is Mahler's "real 9th" - some critics have panned it, but I like the *Boulez *(Wiener Phil, DG) version
- The _incmplete 10th _(Kubelik sticks to the adagio movement only as orchestrated by Mahler, Chailly uses the _Deryk Cooke _performance version). Some conductors - like Bernstein - don't do the 10th as nobody is fully satisfied with the third-party completions
- The *Blumine movement of Symphony no. 1*, present only in the first version of the symphony, now "fashionable" as part of the Mahler 1st recordings

Abuse of Internet resources to sample and taste before you make a purchase!


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## Josiah

Thanks for the recommendations.


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## jalex

Bertini's is a solid set. It's attracted rave reviews on the internet:

David Hurwitz at Classics Today:
'...on balance this is the finest complete Mahler cycle available. It has no weak spots at all, and several of the interpretations here, including Symphonies Nos. 1, 5, 7, 8, and 9 stand at or near the top of the list. The sonics are also stunning, a tribute to the WDR engineers working both in Germany and also live in Tokyo, where the last few items in the cycle were recorded. This is the Mahler cycle in which the music most closely sounds like it actually does in concert.'

Tim Perry on musicweb international:
'As a complete cycle of Mahler symphonies, Bertini's box is second to none. More consistent than Tennstedt and Chailly, better sound than Kubelik, less idiosyncratic than Bernstein, more human than Solti, this is the boxed set to buy if a boxed set you seek'

As a bonus it comes with a stunning Das Lied as well.


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## DavidMahler

I'm not big on the Bertini said. All the recordings are heavily compressed

Get these recordings if you can:

1: Bernstein / Concertgebouw
2: Mehta / Vienna
3: Chailly / Concertgebouw
4: Szell / Vienna
5. Barshai / German Youth Orchestra
6. Tilson Thomas / San Francisco
7. Abbado / Berlin
8. Chailly / Concertgebouw
9. Karajan / Berlin
10. Rattle / Berlin
Das Lied. Kubelik / Baker / Bayerischen


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## EqualMoneySystem

1. horenstein (lso), kubelik (audite)
2. klemperer (EMI live), tennstedt (LPO live), steinberg (ICA Classics), walter (1958)
3. horenstein, barbirolli
4. mengelberg, britten, kubelik (DG)
5. sinopoli, barshai, chailly, levine, shipway
6. boulez, sanderling, chailly, haitink/Berliner, bernstein/wien, herbig
7. abbado/berliner, kondrashin/kco, barenboim, neumann, gielen
8. wit, horenstein, bertini, chailly
9: Levine/Philadelphia, ancerl, klemperer, barenboim, neumann, haitink/kco, giulini/chicago
DLvdE: klemperer, kubelik (audite)


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## Crudblud

Full (or partial) sets: Kubelík, Bernstein, Tennstedt, Mitropoulos

Individual:
1: Kubelík/Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks
2: Tennstedt/London Philharmonic Orchestra
3: Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra
4: Gielen/SWR Sinfonieorchester Baden-Baden und Freiburg
5: Bernstein/Wiener Philharmoniker
6: Sanderling/St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra
7: Sinopoli/Philharmonia Orchestra
8: Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra
9: Bernstein/New York Philharmonic Orchestra

Secondary recommendations: Klemperer, Horenstein, Boulez, Karajan

Avoid: Haitink, Maazel, Abbado


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## christmashtn

I say get the Sony Bernstein's, and then go on amazon and grab a copy of Kurt Sanderling's complete Cooke 10th on Berlin Classics import. His performance is in a whole different emotional dimension. Go to youtube and type in the search engine: maybe the most beautiful music ever, and you will hear the last ten minutes of that truly revelatory performance.


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## Ramako

This is fun reading.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html

I got into Mahler with a recording of his ninth with Valery Gergiev. It remains my favoured recording although I'm not a Mahler symphony recordings collector - yet.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-9/dp/B005F1LTLS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345380910&sr=8-2


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## StlukesguildOhio

As others have suggested, this field is crowded with excellent interpretations. I won't try to convince you that my choices trump all the others. What I will do is suggest that you avoid any box set initially... for two reasons. First, I don't think any single conductor has come near producing a set in which the recording of every last symphony ranks among the finest available. Secondly, I think that you will benefit from hearing a variety of conductors and their interpretations. With time you begin to develop a grasp of what to expect from a given conductor and an idea as to which conductors are likely to suite your ideal approach to a given work of music or composer.

Having said that... my personal favorites include:


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## bigshot

I've never been fond of Solti's Mahler myself. It has tons of angst without the balance of the lyrical qualities. A little too strident for me. I like Bernstein though. He is hyper emotional, but the corners aren't quite as angular. My favorite is Walter.


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## powerbooks

For whole set, I prefer Bernstein DG than Columbia (SONY). The newer DG set has more inner feeling (and sometimes dragging), but more refined than early Columbia. The emotion is high and suited for modern listening. The 8th is not as good, but I don't like it anyway.

I also find Rattle's set surprisingly good, if not top choices for any individual symphony. The whole set quality is not bad.

Not sure why someone does not like Abbado, I think is fist DG complete set is fine, and his re-making are even better, especially 9th and 6th. His early Chicago 7th is a classic.

Never really like Solti Mahler even though my introduction of M1 and M2 are from his recording. but his 8th is said great, unfortunately as I confessed before, I don't get into the 8th.

Among the other ealry sets, Kubelik is better than Inabl, Ozawa, Maazel, or Sinopoli. Tennstedt is good at M2, and M5, not sure if the complete set has the live M5 that everyone loves.

New generation of orchestra players and conductors have more exposure and experience with Mahler symphonies nowadays, and the immediate benefit is that many of the new modern recordings have pretty high sonic quality. This gave those old generation conductors a new chance to try to refine their Mahler approach. Among the most "improved", I have to say Haitink. his new LSO live or Chicago live Mahler are very revealing. 

For the newer digital waves, I have to say MTT San Francisco is worth the hype, same as Chailly's Decca set. Both are worth getting. I have the Bertini set, and is pretty bland. Unless you are really into collecting, I think you can get better versions.

Oh, Boulez's DG recordings are special cases, like a cold blooded passion. You either like it or don't get it. I like the 9th, and 6th to some degree, but not sure about the 3rd.


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## SixFootScowl

Thinking of getting this set. I realize it is missing #2 and #8 because Levine never recorded those two. But maybe this would be a good intro to Mahler symphonies for me. Thoughts?


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## Mahlerian

My personal recommendation would be this set, which not only includes a fine 8th (and an okay Second that is eclipsed entirely by his live version), but also Das Lied von der Erde:


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## MarkW

There is no one size fits all where Mahler is concerned. Do not get a box set, but listen widely to a variety of performances of each work and see what kind of approach you like - supercharged, dispassionate, heart-on-sleeve -- there is no "right" answer, only personal taste. Although there are a few landmark performances that seem to enjoy wide approbation. In general, put two Mahler fans in a room, and if they agree upon a performance of even one work, it's like winning a lottery.

The Fourth is probably the most accessible, the Fifth is full of characteristic gestures with a really fun palette-cleansing finale. The Sixth darkly ferocious and many consider it his greatest. The Second is magisterial, the Ninth and Das Lied otherworldly. Stay away from the various performing versions of he Tenth until you're more comfortable with the idiom.

You don't have to like all of them, but don't turn away from one on the basis of a single performance.

Happy listenhing!


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## Woodduck

MarkW said:


> There is no one size fits all where Mahler is concerned. Do not get a box set, but listen widely to a variety of performances of each work and see what kind of approach you like - supercharged, dispassionate, heart-on-sleeve -- there is no "right" answer, only personal taste. Although there are a few landmark performances that seem to enjoy wide approbation. In general, put two Mahler fans in a room, and if they agree upon a performance of even one work, it's like winning a lottery.
> 
> The Fourth is probably the most accessible, the Fifth is full of characteristic gestures with a really fun palette-cleansing finale. The Sixth darkly ferocious and many consider it his greatest. The Second is magisterial, the Ninth and Das Lied otherworldly. *Stay away from the various performing versions of he Tenth until you're more comfortable with the idiom.*
> 
> You don't have to like all of them, but don't turn away from one on the basis of a single performance.
> 
> Happy listenhing!


Don't scare people away from the 10th. The adagio is one of Mahler's most powerful movements, and nobody needs to care at first whose completion they're listening to. Actually some of us like the adagio as a stand-alone work.


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## SixFootScowl

Mahlerian said:


> My personal recommendation would be this set, which not only includes a fine 8th (and an okay Second that is eclipsed entirely by his live version), but also Das Lied von der Erde:


I have Das Lied von der Erde (which I hear Mahler considered a symphony) with Waltraud Meier, so am not in need of another. Would the symphonies from the set you depicted be the same on these sets:



















Also, what about Bernstein?


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## Mahlerian

Florestan said:


> I have Das Lied von der Erde (which I hear Mahler considered a symphony) with Waltraud Meier, so am not in need of another. Would the symphonies from the set you depicted be the same on these sets:
> 
> Also, what about Bernstein?


The studio cycle itself is the same, except for the inclusion of Das Lied. The true advantage of the set I posted, though, is that it includes a few live recordings on top of the studio cycle. Tennstedt's live recordings have a special intensity that you can't get anywhere else.

Of Bernstein's sets, I would choose the earlier Sony over the later DG, though the latter has a better Fifth and Sixth.










Other great Mahler conductors include Abbado (go for the Lucerne recordings) and Boulez (variable but always fascinating).


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## starthrower

Florestan said:


> Thinking of getting this set. I realize it is missing #2 and #8 because Levine never recorded those two. But maybe this would be a good intro to Mahler symphonies for me. Thoughts?


I don't know who to believe about Levine's Mahler? I thought about picking up this set for some alternate performances because it's cheaper than buying 2 or 3 individual CDs. But I think I'll wait and get the Tennstedt box at the end of the year during Presto's box set sale. I have quite a few of Bernstein's NYP CDs, and I'm happy with most of them. The 9th is fantastic! And I love Lenny's 3rd, 4th, and 7th too! I'd have to say Tennstedt's 8th is my favorite of that symphony. And the live recording of no. 6. And I like Chailly's 5th.


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## Chronochromie

For a less overly dramatic approach but not lacking in passion, and in my opinion the best all-round cycle there is Kubelik's. It has some of the finest recordings of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th and the 10th's Adagio, along with a solid 6th.


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## bz3

I'd agree with Kubelik being a good one if you're only to buy one. 

However I listen to the Boulez set the most (particularly in 3, 4, 6, 7, and 9) and really enjoy that cycle but I guess it's more idiosyncratic than some others. It does contain the song cycles and DLVDE too, which is nice. If it were 2 sets one wanted I would unhesitatingly recommend Boulez and Bernstein's Sony cycle.


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## Autocrat

Mahlerian said:


> Other great Mahler conductors include Abbado (go for the Lucerne recordings) and Boulez (variable but always fascinating).


I have the Mahler 9th - Abbado/Lucerne Festival Orchestra on bluray. It is phenomenal.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I have Das Lied von der Erde (which I hear Mahler considered a symphony) with Waltraud Meier, so am not in need of another. Would the symphonies from the set you depicted be the same on these sets:
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As far as I know this two set are the same ( Tenstedtt)

As for Bernstein I am with Mahlerian .:tiphat:


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## Templeton

Florestan said:


> Thinking of getting this set. I realize it is missing #2 and #8 because Levine never recorded those two. But maybe this would be a good intro to Mahler symphonies for me. Thoughts?


I have this set and really like it. I have struggled to really get Mahler, with the exception of the Fifth, which is a bit of an outlier but have begun to appreciate him more, as a result of listening to Levine's interpretations. I have also enjoyed Bernstein's recordings.

I imagine that much depends upon where your tastes lie. I prefer my interpretations to be lush, passionate and not too harsh, with Mahler being one composer whose works can be interpreted either way. Both Bernstein and Levine, at least to my ears, provide more of the former, so they're right up my street. Others, however, will think very differently.

By the way, Levine recorded the second 'Resurrection' symphony with the Vienna and Israel Philharmonics, both available via Amazon. I was unable to find any recording of the Eighth.


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## SixFootScowl

As good as the Levine set looks it will result in spending double it's price by the time I add Symphonies 2 and 8. I am told that Solti is a good fill in for the missing Levine symphonies. Of course there is the 2nd with Levine available separately. But it is probably wiser to go with a complete cycle. Which have faster tempos? I understand the early Bernstein and the Levine sets are faster tempos.


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## Art Rock

Kubelik would be my overall choice, with Boulez a close second for a different approach. Levine? I had his 9th, "had" because it is one of the few CD's (and a double one at that) that I got rid of. Never had the urge to check how he did the others.


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## Mahlerian

Florestan said:


> As good as the Levine set looks it will result in spending double it's price by the time I add Symphonies 2 and 8. I am told that Solti is a good fill in for the missing Levine symphonies. Of course there is the 2nd with Levine available separately. But it is probably wiser to go with a complete cycle. Which have faster tempos? I understand the early Bernstein and the Levine sets are faster tempos.


Of my recommendations, Boulez tends to be on the faster side, which I suppose more correctly matches Mahler's own tempos (though none of his works have metronome markings).

Tennstedt's renditions tend to be longer, but they don't feel slow or dragging at all, if you take them on their own merits.


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## clavichorder

Mahlerian, how do you feel about Tennstedt's live 1981 3rd? There are some flubs and mistakes, but I think it has more edge and guts to it than the others I've heard. 




I am trying out this Jansons recording this morning. Sounds good so far, cleaner but with gravity.


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## Chronochromie

Florestan said:


> As good as the Levine set looks it will result in spending double it's price by the time I add Symphonies 2 and 8. I am told that Solti is a good fill in for the missing Levine symphonies. Of course there is the 2nd with Levine available separately. But it is probably wiser to go with a complete cycle. Which have faster tempos? I understand the early Bernstein and the Levine sets are faster tempos.


Kubelik and Boulez have faster tempos.


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## Mahlerian

clavichorder said:


> Mahlerian, how do you feel about Tennstedt's live 1981 3rd? There are some flubs and mistakes, but I think it has more edge and guts to it than the others I've heard.


I love the first movement that I listened to. I'll have to get around to the rest.

As for the mistakes, Tennstedt was far from a perfectionist. His studio Bruckner Fourth contains a very obvious mistake in the first tutti. I think that getting the interpretation right is about more than just hitting all of the notes dead on, though.


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## SixFootScowl

Just won off of ebay for $15.50 shipped. Description is "Like New: An item that looks as if it was just taken out of shrink wrap. No visible wear, and all facets of the item are flawless and intact."



















Now my plan, and let's see if I can stick with it. Is to get to know this set, one symphony at a time. That is, I don't want to listen through the whole set all at once but slowly savor each one. I will start with the first, which I saw live last October. I think this is going to be a fascinating excursion.


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## SixFootScowl

Florestan said:


> Now my plan, and let's see if I can stick with it. Is to get to know this set, one symphony at a time. That is, I don't want to listen through the whole set all at once but slowly savor each one. I will start with the first, which I saw live last October. I think this is going to be a fascinating excursion.


Whelp, blowing my plan already. At least the order. In the back of my mind I recalled having a cheesy looking disk of Mahler, so I dug it out of the cellar. Turns out to be a gem, getting rave reviews on Amazon, so I am going to start with it now since I can hardly wait for the cycle to come, and besides, I think they said #5 was a weak part in the old Bernstein cycle, so maybe Shipway is better? Ripping it as I make this post.

Here are some audio clips.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Just won off of ebay for $15.50 shipped. Description is "Like New: An item that looks as if it was just taken out of shrink wrap. No visible wear, and all facets of the item are flawless and intact."
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> Now my plan, and let's see if I can stick with it. Is to get to know this set, one symphony at a time. That is, I don't want to listen through the whole set all at once but slowly savor each one. I will start with the first, which I saw live last October. I think this is going to be a fascinating excursion.


I am sure you are going to love it Florestan.


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> I am sure you are going to love it Florestan.


It's like exploring a whole new world! And someone mentioned that Mahler has something for everyone. Well I am listening to the fifth symphony right now and it is nothing like the first. That is good. Huge variety here.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> It's like exploring a whole new world! And someone mentioned that Mahler has something for everyone. Well I am listening to the fifth symphony right now and it is nothing like the first. That is good. Huge variety here.


Keep this one on you radar to, not everybody's cup of tea but 2 / 3 and 8 are out of this world .

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Chica...8&qid=1468471267&sr=1-1&keywords=Mahler+solti


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## SixFootScowl

This is an interesting set and beautifully packaged. They also include Das Lied as #11 after symphony 10. Check out all the photos on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQ7BX2


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## SixFootScowl

Wow, I had no idea that the set I just purchased off of Ebay has original jackets but here is a different Ebay listing showing the contents of the main box. I can hardly wait for this one to arrive.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Wow, I had no idea that the set I just purchased off of Ebay has original jackets but here is a different Ebay listing showing the contents of the main box. I can hardly wait for this one to arrive.


You see, learning something new every day, that's why I like those boxes .


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## SixFootScowl

I've listened to Mahler's 5th about eight times in the past three days and am loving it. When my cycle comes I plan to go straight to Symphony #1 because that is what got this ball rolling last October when I saw it live along with Beethoven's Fifth (it just took 8 months for the ball to hit me). But after that, is there a particular order I should follow in exploring the rest of the symphonies? On another thread Symphony #4 was recommended as a great one to start with, so maybe that will be next after the 1st.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I've listened to Mahler's 5th about eight times in the past three days and am loving it. When my cycle comes I plan to go straight to Symphony #1 because that is what got this ball rolling last October when I saw it live along with Beethoven's Fifth (it just took 8 months for the ball to hit me). But after that, is there a particular order I should follow in exploring the rest of the symphonies? On another thread Symphony #4 was recommended as a great one to start with, so maybe that will be next after the 1st.


Good suggestion , although 2 an 3 are also outstanding.


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## SixFootScowl

So I Googled for a recommended order to listen to Mahler's symphonies and got this:

*Symphony No 1 (shortest and easiest to digest)*
Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (shares themes with Symphony No 1)
*Symphony No 5 (the next most popular and easy to digest after No 1)
Symphony No 6 (the most 'Classical' of the symphonies)*
Das knaben Wunderhorn (song cycle, which shares material with...)
*Symphony No 4
Symphony No 2
Symphony No 3*
Das klangende Lied
Rückert-Lieder
*Symphony No 9*
Das Lied von der Erde (effectively a cross between a song cycle and a 10th, un-numbered symphony)
Kindertotenlieder
*Symphony No 8
Symphony No 10
Symphony No 7 (the one most people find hardest to grasp)*

I am actually thinking this may be for someone who is a bit nervous about listening to Mahler. I have listened to #1 and #5. Not sure I want to try #6 next if it is the most classical sounding of Mahler's symphonies. Might rather jump all the way in and try #7 which is supposedly the hardest to grasp, whatever is meant here by "grasp."


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## Chronochromie

Florestan said:


> So I Googled for a recommended order to listen to Mahler's symphonies and got this:
> 
> *Symphony No 1 (shortest and easiest to digest)*
> Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (shares themes with Symphony No 1)
> *Symphony No 5 (the next most popular and easy to digest after No 1)
> Symphony No 6 (the most 'Classical' of the symphonies)*
> Das knaben Wunderhorn (song cycle, which shares material with...)
> *Symphony No 4
> Symphony No 2
> Symphony No 3*
> Das klangende Lied
> Rückert-Lieder
> *Symphony No 9*
> Das Lied von der Erde (effectively a cross between a song cycle and a 10th, un-numbered symphony)
> Kindertotenlieder
> *Symphony No 8
> Symphony No 10
> Symphony No 7 (the one most people find hardest to grasp)*
> 
> I am actually thinking this may be for someone who is a bit nervous about listening to Mahler. I have listened to #1 and #5. Not sure I want to try #6 next if it is the most classical sounding of Mahler's symphonies. Might rather jump all the way in and try #7 which is supposedly the hardest to grasp, whatever is meant here by "grasp."


There is no "one size fits all" approach here. You might as well pick a random number.

I myself got interested in Mahler after listening to No. 1, but couldn't really get into Nos. 2, 3 or 5 at all, so I jumped into No. 7 precisely because it was considered the hardest and loved it. Then slowly but surely I got into all of them (except No. 8 kind of).


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> So I Googled for a recommended order to listen to Mahler's symphonies and got this:
> 
> *Symphony No 1 (shortest and easiest to digest)*
> Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen (shares themes with Symphony No 1)
> *Symphony No 5 (the next most popular and easy to digest after No 1)
> Symphony No 6 (the most 'Classical' of the symphonies)*
> Das knaben Wunderhorn (song cycle, which shares material with...)
> *Symphony No 4
> Symphony No 2
> Symphony No 3*
> Das klangende Lied
> Rückert-Lieder
> *Symphony No 9*
> Das Lied von der Erde (effectively a cross between a song cycle and a 10th, un-numbered symphony)
> Kindertotenlieder
> *Symphony No 8
> Symphony No 10
> Symphony No 7 (the one most people find hardest to grasp)*
> 
> I am actually thinking this may be for someone who is a bit nervous about listening to Mahler. I have listened to #1 and #5. Not sure I want to try #6 next if it is the most classical sounding of Mahler's symphonies. Might rather jump all the way in and try #7 which is supposedly the hardest to grasp, whatever is meant here by "grasp."


Two and Three are epic works, 7 and 9 are a lot more difficult, one way to find out, jump in the deep end.


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## SixFootScowl

Well I guess I'll just jump right into #7 next (in a day or two). My other option is to close my eyes and pick one and then, using this handy flowchart, see if I can figure out what one I just heard:


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Well I guess I'll just jump right into #7 next (in a day or two). My other option is to close my eyes and pick one and then, using this handy flowchart, see if I can figure out what one I just heard:


Did you notice the name of that site?


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> Did you notice the name of that site?


http://www.tonedeafcomics.com/comic/what-mahler-symphony-did-you-hear/


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## Mahlerian

Florestan said:


> I am actually thinking this may be for someone who is a bit nervous about listening to Mahler. I have listened to #1 and #5. Not sure I want to try #6 next if it is the most classical sounding of Mahler's symphonies. Might rather jump all the way in and try #7 which is supposedly the hardest to grasp, whatever is meant here by "grasp."


Calling No. 6 the most classical of Mahler's symphonies is reasonable only from the point of view that it retains the traditional four-movement structure, unlike most of the others. The actual content of the movements is anything but classical in orientation.

Also, Das Lied von der Erde would be No. 9 if it were included in the numbering, which it initially was before Mahler changed his mind. It's also the only "symphony" he wrote that's not in symphonic form, although it's certainly of symphonic scope.


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## SixFootScowl

Mahlerian said:


> Calling No. 6 the most classical of Mahler's symphonies is reasonable only from the point of view that it retains the traditional four-movement structure, unlike most of the others. The actual content of the movements is anything but classical in orientation.
> 
> Also, Das Lied von der Erde would be No. 9 if it were included in the numbering, which it initially was before Mahler changed his mind. It's also the only "symphony" he wrote that's not in symphonic form, although it's certainly of symphonic scope.


Glad to hear this. If I want classical, there is plenty of it out there. I came to Mahler for something different and so far Mahler is satisfying that desire. I am into my second listen to #7 tonight and liking it very much. So far I have heard #1, #5, and #7. My expectation is that the other 6 will be equally satisfying.

Das Lied von der Erde is one that I had already heard but did not appreciate until now. I bought it for Waltraud Meier, but now I have it for her and for Mahler--a doubly good deal! I will get back to it but probably after the rest of the nine symphonies.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Glad to hear this. If I want classical, there is plenty of it out there. I came to Mahler for something different and so far Mahler is satisfying that desire. I am into my second listen to #7 tonight and liking it very much. So far I have heard #1, #5, and #7. My expectation is that the other 6 will be equally satisfying.
> 
> Das Lied von der Erde is one that I had already heard but did not appreciate until now. I bought it for Waltraud Meier, but now I have it for her and for Mahler--a doubly good deal! I will get back to it but probably after the rest of the nine symphonies.


I do like your enthusiasm, like someone in a candy store.
Good on you.


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## SixFootScowl

Pugg said:


> I do like your enthusiasm, like someone in a candy store.
> Good on you.


Yes and trying hard not to stuff all the different types of candy into my mouth all at once. That is why I wanted to listen to each symphony several times before moving to another.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> Yes and trying hard not to stuff all the different types of candy into my mouth all at once. That is why I wanted to listen to each symphony several times before moving to another.


I know you a bit by now, keep exploring.


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## SixFootScowl

So, just in case I get the urge to buy a second Mahler set, which ones would be good to complement or contrast the Bernstein set I have (1960s)? 

I am still considering Levine as a possible addition to my collection, but it does have the problem of two missing symphonies.


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## Mahlerian

Florestan said:


> So, just in case I get the urge to buy a second Mahler set, which ones would be good to complement or contrast the Bernstein set I have (1960s)?
> 
> I am still considering Levine as a possible addition to my collection, but it does have the problem of two missing symphonies.


Boulez or Tennstedt would be my suggestions, though neither fills the biggest gap, a complete Tenth Symphony.


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## Chronochromie

Florestan said:


> So, just in case I get the urge to buy a second Mahler set, which ones would be good to complement or contrast the Bernstein set I have (1960s)?
> 
> I am still considering Levine as a possible addition to my collection, but it does have the problem of two missing symphonies.


Kubelik for sure. Or if you want the closest to a complete opposite to Bernstein, Boulez.


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## ViatorDei

My first set of Mahler was Solti's, so I am very fond of his set (which has its ups and downs, though with more 'ups' than 'downs' I might add). I have to say, though, that *Kubelik* is consistently very good or excellent throughout and very _Mahlerian_. By that I mean that after having digested Mahler's music over the course of years of excessive listening, Kubelik just feels like he plays the music how Mahler would have enjoyed hearing it. Nothing too over distraught or angst-ridden. As enjoyable as that may or may not be at times, he conducts with passion, intimate knowledge, and most of all _sympathy_ for Mahler as he really was.

So often when I play my music on random and I hear some Mahler come on (amongst my many versions of all his symphonies) and I find myself thinking 'Wow, this is really, delightfully good and refreshing Mahler. I wonder who's conducting this?' Almost inevitably turns out to be Kubelik.


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## SixFootScowl

Is this a good list for me to reference for info on Mahler works and for filling in the gaps so I have complete works of Mahler?

http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Gustav_Mahler

I just checked my Waltraud Meier collection and see I have three complete works from this list: Das Lied von der Erde, the 5 Ruckert-Lieder, and the Kindertotenlieder. This is good as she is one of my favorites. Also with the Bernstein set I have two more Kindertotenlieder, one with Janet Baker! And some other stuff, including parts of a couple symphonies from live performances.


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## Pugg

ViatorDei said:


> My first set of Mahler was Solti's, so I am very fond of his set (which has its ups and downs, though with more 'ups' than 'downs' I might add). I have to say, though, that *Kubelik* is consistently very good or excellent throughout and very _Mahlerian_. By that I mean that after having digested Mahler's music over the course of years of excessive listening, Kubelik just feels like he plays the music how Mahler would have enjoyed hearing it. Nothing too over distraught or angst-ridden. As enjoyable as that may or may not be at times, he conducts with passion, intimate knowledge, and most of all _sympathy_ for Mahler as he really was.
> 
> So often when I play my music on random and I hear some Mahler come on (amongst my many versions of all his symphonies) and I find myself thinking 'Wow, this is really, delightfully good and refreshing Mahler. I wonder who's conducting this?' Almost inevitably turns out to be Kubelik.


This and also Tennstedt .


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## Tallisman

The two great Mahlerians in my estimation are Bernstein and Abbado. Bernstein's first cycle for sheer directness of drama and not an iota of sterility to be found anywhere. I feel he is the ultimate Mahler conduit. He really _gets_ what Mahler is doing, and certain movements of his (eg the first movements of the 9th on Sony) have never been bettered and still have the power to completely overwhelm today.

However, Bernstein, in his search for emotional potency, (which he always finds, by the way) loses a little bit of precision, and the NYP aren't _quite_ as clean as the European orchestras in those recordings. I actually prefer this, and it's never to a degree where it remotely damages the listening experience for me, but if you're a very attentive listener and keen on real orchestral clarity and smoothness, Abbado's recordings are great, and so are Karajan's. Abbado's recent ones on DG with the Lucerne FO are great if you want to tone down your Mahler into a slightly smoother ambiguity.


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## DavidA

ViatorDei said:


> My first set of Mahler was Solti's, so I am very fond of his set (which has its ups and downs, though with more 'ups' than 'downs' I might add). I have to say, though, that *Kubelik* is consistently very good or excellent throughout and very _Mahlerian_. By that I mean that after having digested Mahler's music over the course of years of excessive listening, *Kubelik just feels like he plays the music how Mahler would have enjoyed hearing it.* Nothing too over distraught or angst-ridden. As enjoyable as that may or may not be at times, he conducts with passion, intimate knowledge, and most of all _sympathy_ for Mahler as he really was.
> 
> So often when I play my music on random and I hear some Mahler come on (amongst my many versions of all his symphonies) and I find myself thinking 'Wow, this is really, delightfully good and refreshing Mahler. I wonder who's conducting this?' Almost inevitably turns out to be Kubelik.


Sorry how do you know? The two Mahler pupils who have come down to us - Walter and Klemperer - conducted his music very differently. Do we know how Mahler conducted it?


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## Biffo

DavidA said:


> Sorry how do you know? The two Mahler pupils who have come down to us - Walter and Klemperer - conducted his music very differently. Do we know how Mahler conducted it?


Walter never conducted any Mahler during the composer's lifetime. The nearest he came was rehearsing the chorus for the 8th Symphony. However, Mahler must have trusted him to some degree as he entrusted him with the score of Das Lied von der Erde.

Oskar Fried conducted a performance of the second symphony with Klemperer conducting the off-stage band. Mahler attended the rehearsals and approved of the performance. Neither Walter or Klemperer could be really called pupils.

Natalie Bauer-Lechner recalled - 'This morning [12 November 1899], Mahler's Second Symphony was played to him in Bocklet's arrangement for eight hands. Although all the performers were highly capable - they are all enthusiastic about his work and had heard it last year under Mahler himself - the performance was painful to him, and "took the wind out of his sails" again. The tempi were wrong and the expression and phrasing were often so incorrect that everything dissolved into chaos. "And that was directed and rehearsed by someone who will imagine and claim that he inherits the 'tradition' straight from me! From this you may learn the truth about so-called 'tradition': there is no such thing! Everything is left to the whim of the individual and unless a genius awakens them to life, all works of art are lost'

None of the four performers are named!

The nearest we have to Mahler's own interprtations are a handful of piano rolls.


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## Totenfeier

If you think about it, if we knew exactly how each composer wanted his work performed, we would only need one conductor + orchestra per composer - the one that met his requirements - and they would only need to perform a concert of each piece live, and record one definitive cycle, and then everyone could pack up their instruments, board up the concert halls, and go home.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we appreciate an art form that is so protean in its interpretations. Nobody can do a different Michelangelo's _David_, for example, or offer up their version of van Gogh's _Starry Night_. So listen to a Mahler symphony - any one - with any conductor and orchestra. Then listen to another one, compare the two, and see how they come out. Then do it again and compare the three. Repeat until the money's gone.

That said, give me Tennstedt first, Walter and Klemperer second, Kubelik and Bernstein next, then Abbado, Horenstein, Barbirolli, and Haitink; then (in no particular order) Boulez, Levine, Gielen, Inbal...heck, throw Abravanel in there too. (I don't care for Solti or Karajan in Mahler - Szell's good, though).


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## larold

My favorite Mahler sets are from Maurice Abravanel-Utah Symphony and Vaclav Neumann, though I like Neumann's earlier recordings of Symphonies 5 and 7 with Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra rather than his later set with Czech Philharmonic. These were two of the first three conductors to record all the symphonies except 10; Bernstein was the other. Neumann was the first to record them all behind the Iron Curtain. The similarity between Abravanel and Neumann is that they downplay to some extent the neuroses in the music. If you like neuroses, I think Bernstein is probably for you.


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## Totenfeier

larold said:


> My favorite Mahler sets are from Maurice Abravanel-Utah Symphony and Vaclav Neumann, though I like Neumann's earlier recordings of Symphonies 5 and 7 with Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra rather than his later set with Czech Philharmonic. These were two of the first three conductors to record all the symphonies except 10; Bernstein was the other. Neumann was the first to record them all behind the Iron Curtain. The similarity between Abravanel and Neumann is that they downplay to some extent the neuroses in the music. If you like neuroses, I think Bernstein is probably for you.


I really like Abravanel and Utah, which seems like slumming, but I think it may be because they did Mahler before Mahler was done to death. It's raw, unpolished, and fresh.


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## Pugg

Somehow the Inbal recordings are growing on me.


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## Chris Hewett

Horenstein hits most of the right spots most of the time - his 3rd is something else. Tennstedt has all the fire in the world, except in the studio recording of the Resurrection with the London Phil, which is trudging-through-concrete slow. Was he being paid by the hour? Fischer is two-thirds of the way through something interesting with the Budapest band. As for Kubelik on DG...wonderfully reliable, if reliable is what you want.


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## Totenfeier

Chris Hewett said:


> Horenstein hits most of the right spots most of the time - his 3rd is something else. Tennstedt has all the fire in the world, except in the studio recording of the Resurrection with the London Phil, which is trudging-through-concrete slow. Was he being paid by the hour? Fischer is two-thirds of the way through something interesting with the Budapest band. As for Kubelik on DG...wonderfully reliable, if reliable is what you want.


Nice first post, Chis Hewett - welcome to TC! You make some good observations.

Ordinarily, I don't mind Tennstedt slowing down to let you take a look around; I like his expansiveness and breadth of vision. I do admit that the dead-in-studio thing is true, to an extent, and especially, as you note, in the 2nd (although in Tennstedt's defense, it's really only a nuisance in the first movement, at least to my ears). If ever any symphony needs to be taken more crisply than it usually is, it's M2; one of my favorite versions in that respect, that handles the quicker tempo to a T, is Herbert Blomstedt/San Francisco: it's a cracker.


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## Chris Hewett

I buy your argument about the Resurrection in general terms, Totenfeier: I've heard Resurrections that are so fast, they appear to precede the original demise; I've heard Resurrections that are so slow, there is a second death before the end of the first movement. I'll certainly track down the Blomstedt reading. I purchased his Nielsen cycle with the San Francisco-ers years ago and give it a regular airing to this day. In an ideal world, someone would dig up a Horenstein performance of M2. I'm pretty sure the pacing would be spot on; the ironies and grotesqueries in the music would be delivered with as much loving care as the glories and solemnities; and the climaxes would raise the listener as far off the floor as those in his recordings of the other completed symphonies. The man was a great Mahlerian, no question. Sadly, there appears to be no such recording, although rumours persist of a concert in South Africa that may have been caught by a lingering microphone. Fingers crossed.


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## Chris Hewett

I buy your argument about the Resurrection in general terms, Totenfeier: I've heard Resurrections that are so fast, they appear to precede the original demise; I've heard Resurrections that are so slow, there is a second death before the end of the first movement. I'll certainly track down the Blomstedt reading. I purchased his Nielsen cycle with the San Francisco-ers years ago and give it a regular airing to this day. In an ideal world, someone would dig up a Horenstein performance of M2. I'm pretty sure the pacing would be spot on; the ironies and grotesqueries in the music would be delivered with as much loving care as the glories and solemnities; and the climaxes would raise the listener as far off the floor as those in his recordings of the other completed symphonies. The man was a great Mahlerian, no question. Sadly, there appears to be no such recording, although rumours persist of a concert in South Africa that may have been caught by a lingering microphone. Fingers crossed.


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## Totenfeier

Do not forget also Walter and Klemperer. Our very own Becca here at TC did several timings of various M2s a while back, and those two were overall the quickest - and, as Becca has pointed out, they knew and worked with Mahler (though, as has been mentioned above, that may mean less than we think). Mahler himself, I have read, worried that it would be played too slowly in the future (the first movement IS _Allegro_ Maestoso, after all, not _Largo_ Maestoso!)

I cut my Resurrection teeth back in the 1970s with Walter/NYPO, and although everybody knocks Klemperer for slowness, he keeps his Philhamonia EMI GROC moving right along fairly briskly, but under superb control.


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## Becca

Totenfeier said:


> Do not forget also Walter and Klemperer. Our very own Becca here at TC did several timings of various M2s a while back, and those two were overall the quickest - and, as Becca has pointed out, they knew and worked with Mahler (though, as has been mentioned above, that may mean less than we think). Mahler himself, I have read, worried that it would be played too slowly in the future (the first movement IS _Allegro_ Maestoso, after all, not _Largo_ Maestoso!)
> 
> I cut my Resurrection teeth back in the 1970s with Walter/NYPO, and although everybody knocks Klemperer for slowness, he keeps his Philhamonia EMI GROC moving right along fairly briskly, but under superb control.


There is another stereo Klemperer M2, a live performance with the Bavarian Radio Symphony done in the Herkulesaal with Heather Harper and Janet Baker. While the timings between the two are quite close (the BRSO has a slightly slower 1st movement and faster last movement), there is certainly an extra frisson from being done live. The recording is also on EMI and is easy to confuse with the studio performance if you don't look closely (similar cover) and just make an assumption, as I did in the past.

I would also recommend Barbirolli's M2, also a live performance but with the Stuttgart Radio Symphony. As I have noted earlier, while Barbirolli was too young to know Mahler, he did work with some musicians in the NYPO during his years there who played for Mahler.

As to my table of M2 timings, if someone can find it in the bowels of the TC archives (probably early 2015), I would appreciate it (being too lazy to do it myself  )


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## Totenfeier

I'm doing something right this minute that I've never done before: I'm listening to the 1st movement of the Resurrection done by Vaclav Neumann with the Czech Philharmonic from the Rudolfinum in Prague, 1980. Ah, Vaclav, Vaclav! Where have you been all my life? This performance is now part of my Top Five Totenfeiers - maybe Top Three.


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## Totenfeier

Update: Hell's holy bells.

M2, 1st movement, Blomstedt: 26:35
M2, 1st movement, Neumann: 19:03

_19:03_!

I'm afraid to check Tennstedt now...


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## CnC Bartok

I've always been a fan of Neumann in Mahler. Straight, let's the music do the talking. Try his Czech 7th, a great performance!

Tennstedt 24.48 in the boxed set on EMI, btw....


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## Totenfeier

Robert Pickett said:


> I've always been a fan of Neumann in Mahler. Straight, let's the music do the talking. Try his Czech 7th, a great performance!


On my way, when I get done with this.


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## Larkenfield

Robert Pickett said:


> I've always been a fan of Neumann in Mahler. Straight, let's the music do the talking. Try his Czech 7th, a great performance!


Wonderful recommendation by Robert. If others haven't heard it, I hope they treat themselves to this outstanding Neumann performance of the 7th. I found it vibrant, ravishing... thrilling! Nothing gets bogged down as it marches to its inevitable completion, and Neumann skillfully keeps its many details hanging together, perhaps its greatest challenge. (Bernstein with the NYP couldn't do it, IMO.) Online on YT in excellent sound.

I think this is the most virtuosic of any Mahler symphony, where he was at the absolute peak of his fertility of imagination and able to masterfully integrate such a flood of ideas and emotion into a unified whole. Sometimes this symphony reminds me of a stream of consciousness dream where so many things happen in it and there's a sense of random events taken place.

My only reservation about Neumann's performance is that there's so much daylight in it that I'm seldom reminded of nighttime events at all, perhaps everything expressed so outwardly and explicitly that some of the mystery of what Mahler may have been trying to point to is lost. Still, a memorable performance.


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## timothyjuddviolin

For a fairly recent set of recordings, I find Michael Tilson Thomas' live recordings with the San Francisco Symphony to be excellent. I recently shared some thoughts on the Fourth Symphony at my blog and I include the MTT recording.


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## Biffo

For me, the big drawback with Neumann's Mahler 7 is the plodding Nachtmusik II; at nearly 17 mins it seems endless. Boulez zips through it in only 10:38 which is probably too fast. Bernstein/NYPO, my first love in this symphony, takes 14:34 and that is leisurely enough for me.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I posted this yesterday in the "Lists!" thread, but probably more appropriately belongs here. This is the result of an exhaustive Mahler recording survey I did over several months.

I separate each work into two categories: Essential Recordings and Additional Listening.

A recording I consider an all-time great recording is followed with a ♫. (my version of a Penguin Rosette)

The recording that represents the best choice for sound quality and performance combined is followed with a ◄.

I ranked them within each category without regard to sound quality. Performance only. I assume people can decide for themselves whether a recording is too old or not. My task was to judge the performance.

*Symphony No. 1 ('Titan')*

Essential Recordings:

Bruno Walter (1939) (Music & Arts) ♫
F. Charles Adler (Tahra)
Sir John Barbirolli (Dutton) ◄
Rafael Kubelik (DG)
Leonard Bernstein (DG)

Additional Listening:

Bruno Walter (1954 live) (Urania), Dmitri Mitropoulos (1940) (Sony, Enterprise), Ernest Borsamsky (Forgotten Records), Hermann Scherchen (MCA), Rafael Kubelik (1979) (Audite), Bruno Walter (1954 studio) (Sony), Jascha Horenstein (1970) (Unicorn)

*Symphony No. 2 ('Resurrection')*

Essential Recordings:

John Barbirolli (1970) (EMI Great Conductors) ♫
Otto Klemperer (1965 live) (EMI)
Otto Klemperer (1962) (EMI) ◄
Zubin Mehta (Decca)
Simon Rattle (EMI)

Additional Listening:

Otto Klemperer (1951) (Decca, Guild, Archipel, Verona), Bruno Walter (1948 NYPO) (Bruno Walter Society, Music in the Mail), Hermann Scherchen (1959) (MCA), Leopold Stokowski (BBC), Leonard Bernstein (1963) (Sony), Bruno Walter (1957) (Music & Arts)

*Symphony No. 3*

Essential Recordings:

F. Charles Adler (1952 studio) (Harmonia Mundi, Music & Arts)
Jascha Horenstein (Unicorn) ◄
Sir John Barbirolli (1969) (BBC)
Leonard Bernstein (Sony)

Additional Listening:

Dmitri Mitropoulos (1960) (Tahra, ICA, Archipel), Claudio Abbado (1982) (DG), Bernhard Haitink (1966) (Philips), Hermann Scherchen (1950) (Tahra), Rafael Kubelik (Audite), James Levine (RCA)

*Symphony No. 4*

Essential Recordings:

Jo Vincent/Willem Mengelberg (Philips, Grammofono, Dante Lys, Iron Needle) ♫
Heather Harper/Sir John Barbirolli (BBC)
Hilde Güden/Bruno Walter (1955) (DG, Andromeda)
Margaret Price/Jascha Horenstein (CfP) ◄

Additional Listening:

Irmgard Seefried/Bruno Walter (1950) (MCA, Orfeo, Tahra), Irmgard Seefried/Bruno Walter (1953) (Tahra, Music & Arts), Emmy Loose/Paul Kletzki (EMI), Judith Raskin/George Szell (Sony), Kathleen Battle/Lorin Maazel (Sony), Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Otto Klemperer (EMI), Lucia Popp/Klaus Tennstedt (EMI)

*Symphony No. 5*

Essential Recordings:

Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ♫ ◄
Jascha Horenstein (Pristine)
Frank Shipway (RPO)
Rudolf Schwarz (Everest)
Leonard Bernstein (DG)

Additional Listening:

Václav Neumann (1967) (Philips, Brilliant Classics), Bruno Walter (Sony), Hermann Scherchen (1953) (Westminster), Dmitri Mitropoulos (Music & Arts), Hermann Scherchen (1962) (Stradivarius, Living Stage), Rafael Kubelik (1951) (Tahra), Rudolf Barshai (Brilliant Classics), James Levine (1978) (RCA), Klaus Tennstedt (1988), Claudio Abbado (DG), Herbert von Karajan (DG)

*Symphony No. 6*

Essential Recordings:

Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ♫ ◄
Eduard van Beinum (Tahra)
Leonard Bernstein (DG)

Additional Listening:

Jascha Horenstein (1969) (BBC), Sir John Barbirolli (Testament), Dmitri Mitropoulos (1955) (Archipel, NYPO), Hermann Scherchen (1961) (Tahra), Leonard Bernstein (Sony), Herbert von Karajan (DG), Thomas Sanderling (Real Sound)

*Symphony No. 7*

Essential Recordings:

Otto Klemperer (EMI) ♫ ◄
Jascha Horenstein (Music & Arts, BBC)
Hermann Scherchen (1965) (Music & Arts)
Claudio Abbado (1984) (DG)

Additional Listening:

Kirill Kondrashin (1975) (Melodiya), Sir John Barbirolli (BBC, Barbirolli Society), Leonard Bernstein (DG), Sir Simon Rattle (EMI), Daniel Barenboim (Warner)

*Symphony No. 8 ('Symphony of a thousand')*

Essential Recordings:

Jascha Horenstein (BBC) ♫
Dmitri Mitropoulos (Orfeo, Music & Arts)
Leonard Bernstein (DG) ◄
Georg Solti (Decca)

Additional Listening:

Wyn Morris (Pickwick), Hermann Scherchen (Tahra), Leopold Stokowski (1950) (Archipel, United Classics), Eduard Flipse (RPO, Scribendum), Claudio Abbado (1995) (DG), Klaus Tennstedt (EMI), Giuseppe Sinopoli (DG)

*Symphony No. 9*

Essential Recordings:

Sir John Barbirolli (1960) (IDIS, Archipel) ♫
Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ◄
Bruno Walter (EMI, Dutton)
Herbert von Karajan (1982) (DG)
Otto Klemperer (EMI)
Jascha Horenstein (1966) (Music & Arts)

Additional Listening:

Kirill Kondrashin (Melodiya), Karel Ancerl (Supraphon), Leonard Bernstein (1979), Sir Simon Rattle (2007) (EMI), Jascha Horenstein (1953) (Vox), Bernard Haitink (Philips), Bruno Walter (Sony), Carlo Maria Giulini (DG)

*Kindertotenlieder*

Essential Recordings:

Kathleen Ferrier/Bruno Walter (EMI) ♫
Janet Baker/Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ◄
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Rudolf Kempe (EMI)

Additional Listening:

Kathleen Ferrier/Otto Klemperer (Decca), Janet Baker/Leonard Bernstein (Sony), Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Karl Böhm (DG), Kirsten Flagstad/Sir Adrian Boult (Decca), Christa Ludwig/André Vandernoot (EMI)

*Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen*

Essential Recordings:

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Wilhelm Furtwängler (EMI)
Janet Baker/Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ◄

Additional Listening:

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Rafael Kubelik (DG), Kirsten Flagstad/Sir Adrian Boult (Decca), Christa Ludwig/Sir Adrian Boult (EMI)

*Rückert-Lieder*

Essential Recordings:

Janet Baker/Sir John Barbirolli (EMI) ◄

Additional Listening:

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Karl Böhm (DG), Christa Ludwig/Otto Klemperer (EMI)

*Das klagende Lied*

Essential Recordings:

Gennadi Rozhdestvensky (IMP, ICA) ◄
Sir Simon Rattle (EMI)

Additional Listening:

Wyn Morris (IMP, Nimbus), Riccardo Chailly (Decca)

*Des knaben Wunderhorn*

Essential Recordings:

Felix Prohaska (Vanguard) ◄

Additional Listening:

George Szell (EMI), Wyn Morris (IMP)

*Das Lied von der Erde*

Essential Recordings:

Kathleen Ferrier/Julius Patzak/Bruno Walter (live) (Tahra, Andromeda) ♫
Kathleen Ferrier/Julius Patzak/Bruno Walter (studio) (Decca) ♫
Kersten Thorborg/Carl Martin Ohman/Carl Schuricht (Minerva)
Alfreda Hodgson/John Mitchinson/Jascha Horenstein (BBC)
Janet Baker/Waldemar Kmentt/Rafael Kubelik (Audite)
Christa Ludwig/Fritz Wunderlich/Otto Klemperer (EMI) ◄

Additional Listening:

Kathleen Ferrier/Sir John Barbirolli (APR, Dutton), Kersten Thorborg/Charles Kullmann/Bruno Walter (Dutton, Naxos), Janet Baker/John Mitchinson/Raymond Leppard (BBC), Maureen Forester/Richard Lewis/Bruno Walter (Music & Arts), Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Murray Dickie/Paul Kletzki (EMI), Brigitte Fassbaender/Francisco Arraiza/Carlo Maria Giulini (Testament), Nan Merriman/Ernt Haefliger/Eduard van Beinum (Philips), Janet Baker/James King/Bernhard Haitink (Philips)


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## Becca

^^ An interesting list and, in many ways, goes along with my feelings. Here are a few additional performances available in various places...

Symphony #1 (Note: can we *please* dispense with the 'Titan' label? Mahler dropped it prior to his revisions to the symphony)

Symphony #2
The live Bavarian RSO/Klemperer (is that the '65 referenced above?)

Symphony #3
The live London Philharmonic/Tennstedt from 1986

Symphony #4
Simon Rattle/Berlin Philharmonic/Christine Shafer - a live performance from 2011 available in the BPO Digital Concert Hall archive

Symphony #6
St. Petersburg Philharmonic/Thomas Sanderling
[Probably soon to be joined by the live Barbirolli/Proms which is currently on order]

Symphony #8
Simon Rattle/National Youth Orch. of GB, live performance from the Proms 2002
Honorable mention: Gustavo Dudamel & combined Los Angeles Philharmonic and Simon Bolivar Orchestras, live from Caracas 2012

Symphony #9
Tossup between the Barbirolli/Berlin and Rattle/Berlin recordings

Symphony #10
Daniel Harding/Vienna Philharmonic (Cooke III version)


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## Malx

Becca,
I have for some time preferred Klemperer's live Bav RSO recording over the EMi studio one - not saying that the studio recording is not worthy especially in its new remastered guise.

I also like the Harding VPO 10th.

Another Neumann recording I like is his 2nd - understated, but it flows well and to my ear is a decent alternative to the regular recommendations.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Obviously from my list above I am a big fan of Barbirolli. His style and temperament just suit Mahler perfectly.

Probably the most controversial of my choices is Klemperer in #7. It seems that people either revere the recording as I do or dismiss it due to the slow tempos. There is no in between. I think it is a great recording that illuminates the work like no other. It may even be my favorite Mahler recording of all time. And if the only bad thing you can say about it is that it is too unconventional...well, I don't think that says a whole lot.


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## Becca

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Obviously from my list above I am a big fan of Barbirolli. His style and temperament just suit Mahler perfectly.
> 
> Probably the most controversial of my choices is Klemperer in #7. It seems that people either revere the recording as I do or dismiss it due to the slow tempos. There is no in between. I think it is a great recording that illuminates the work like no other. It may even be my favorite Mahler recording of all time. And if the only bad thing you can say about it is that it is too unconventional...well, I don't think that says a whole lot.


I am definitely a Klemperer fan but with limits. The one bad thing I can say about his 7th is that it does nasty things to my blood pressure :lol: although not as much as some Celibidache recordings!


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## Totenfeier

Becca said:


> I am definitely a Klemperer fan but with limits. The one bad thing I can say about his 7th is that it does nasty things to my blood pressure :lol: although not as much as some Celibidache recordings!


I feel your pain. And nice catch on the live Tennstedt #3.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Now, if I were to make a list based purely on reputation, it would probably be:

1. Kubelik (DG)
2. Klemperer (1962) (EMI)
3. Horenstein (Unicorn)
4. Szell (Sony)
5. Barbirolli (EMI)
6. Bernstein (DG)
7. Abbado (DG)
8. Solti (Decca)
9. Karajan (1982) (DG)
Song-cycles: Baker/Barbirolli (EMI)
Das Lied von der Erde: Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer (EMI)

Some of these I agree with, but not all. I think the Szell 4th is the most overrated, though the 4th movement soprano solo is quite lovely. However, Szell's way with Mahler lacks warmth. And Solti emphasizes the bombastic side of the 8th a bit too much IMO compared to Horenstein or Bernstein.


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## philoctetes

I prefer Abbado's second 7th, it falls between his first and whatever Otto was trying to do, which also works for me. I'm not a big fan of Mahler with heavy panty-twisting. Kubelik would be great if the set had more bottom to it.

Favorite 2nd is Bruno, 4th is Otto with Liz or Abbado with Flicka or Tennstedt with Popp... I just like the 4th a lot I guess...


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## mbhaub

Klemperer's 7th? The three middle movements are ok, the outer are awful. And yes, it's because of the ponderous tempos. Other than that, there are so many excellent Mahler recordings that singling out a few recordings as the best has become meaningless for me. Even that EMI release a few years back, The People's Mahler, had quite a bit of controversy. I would also like to point out that if recordings were based on how much the performance respects and plays the music the way the composer wanted it, some (many!) of the hallowed recordings would be booted from lists like this, and many recordings that are not considered top-drawer would rise in the ratings. Following a recording with score in hand is quite revealing.


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## Phil loves classical

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Obviously from my list above I am a big fan of Barbirolli. His style and temperament just suit Mahler perfectly.
> 
> Probably the most controversial of my choices is Klemperer in #7. It seems that people either revere the recording as I do or dismiss it due to the slow tempos. There is no in between. I think it is a great recording that illuminates the work like no other. It may even be my favorite Mahler recording of all time. And if the only bad thing you can say about it is that it is too unconventional...well, I don't think that says a whole lot.


With you on the Klemperer 7th. It is my favourite Mahler recording.


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## Totenfeier

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Now, if I were to make a list based purely on reputation, it would probably be:
> 
> 1. Kubelik (DG)
> 2. Klemperer (1962) (EMI)
> 3. Horenstein (Unicorn)
> 4. Szell (Sony)
> 5. Barbirolli (EMI)
> 6. Bernstein (DG)
> 7. Abbado (DG)
> 8. Solti (Decca)
> 9. Karajan (1982) (DG)
> Song-cycles: Baker/Barbirolli (EMI)
> Das Lied von der Erde: Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer (EMI)
> 
> Some of these I agree with, but not all. I think the Szell 4th is the most overrated, though the 4th movement soprano solo is quite lovely. However, Szell's way with Mahler lacks warmth. And Solti emphasizes the bombastic side of the 8th a bit too much IMO compared to Horenstein or Bernstein.


That's a nice "reputation" list you got there. I'd only switch out Abbado for the Bernstein/NYPO 7th, and in the 9th either Boulez, Ancerl, Klemperer, Barbirolli, or the guy who pushes the broom after the concert (yep, Karajan haters gonna hate).


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## Brahmsianhorn

mbhaub said:


> Klemperer's 7th? The three middle movements are ok, the outer are awful. And yes, it's because of the ponderous tempos. Other than that, there are so many excellent Mahler recordings that singling out a few recordings as the best has become meaningless for me. Even that EMI release a few years back, The People's Mahler, had quite a bit of controversy. I would also like to point out that if recordings were based on how much the performance respects and plays the music the way the composer wanted it, some (many!) of the hallowed recordings would be booted from lists like this, and many recordings that are not considered top-drawer would rise in the ratings. Following a recording with score in hand is quite revealing.


"I curse the conductor who does not do all he can do improve my music!"

- Gustav Mahler


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## larold

On the subject of lists ... https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R34AK3SL6FHW24/cm_lm_byauthor_title_full


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## Totenfeier

larold said:


> On the subject of lists ... https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R34AK3SL6FHW24/cm_lm_byauthor_title_full


I've said it before, and I'll say it again: yay on Abravanel. However, he is better than his band, at times.


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## Brahmsianhorn

larold said:


> On the subject of lists ... https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R34AK3SL6FHW24/cm_lm_byauthor_title_full


Nice list, but only one recording from the greatest of all Mahler conductors, Barbirolli? And no Klemperer? Seems a little tailored to the straight-laced conductors who in my opinion are the opposite of Mahlerian. You have to be daring to really bring his music to life.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Totenfeier said:


> That's a nice "reputation" list you got there. I'd only switch out Abbado for the Bernstein/NYPO 7th, and in the 9th either Boulez, Ancerl, Klemperer, Barbirolli, or the guy who pushes the broom after the concert (yep, Karajan haters gonna hate).


Actually both Bernstein 7ths are with NYPO. I assume you mean the earlier on Sony? I marginally prefer the DG. But your point is well taken. You could easily swap in Bernstein for Abbado on reputation alone.

As to the 9th I agree with Barbirolli or Klemperer as the minority critical anecdote to Karajan. But I'd still say critical consensus favors Karajan '82. In my own ratings I have Barbirolli ahead of Karajan but Klemperer slightly behind. Barbirolli combines interpretive gusto with human heart, whereas Karajan scores slightly over Klemperer due to greater interpretive flexibility.

It's a funny thing about Karajan. He seems to usually do everything just about right interpretively, yet something always seems to be missing. That human heart and vulnerability that you get with Barbirolli.


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## Becca

larold said:


> On the subject of lists ... https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R34AK3SL6FHW24/cm_lm_byauthor_title_full


Regarding the Levine 5th, anyone who does a 12 minute adagietto is automatically out of the running for me.


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## Totenfeier

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Actually both Bernstein 7ths are with NYPO. I assume you mean the earlier on Sony? I marginally prefer the DG. But your point is well taken. You could easily swap in Bernstein for Abbado on reputation alone.
> 
> As to the 9th I agree with Barbirolli or Klemperer as the minority critical anecdote to Karajan. But I'd still say critical consensus favors Karajan '82. In my own ratings I have Barbirolli ahead of Karajan but Klemperer slightly behind. Barbirolli combines interpretive gusto with human heart, whereas Karajan scores slightly over Klemperer due to greater interpretive flexibility.
> 
> It's a funny thing about Karajan. He seems to usually do everything just about right interpretively, yet something always seems to be missing. That human heart and vulnerability that you get with Barbirolli.


Yes, I meant the Sony Bernstein. I've not heard the DG.

I've been on a bit of a Barbirolli binge in Mahler recently. The grunting is actually endearing, in a way, and I noticed that after listening to his Adagio in the 4th, you really don't want to hear another one, at least for a good long while.


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## Brahmsianhorn

So, another list. This time ranking my favorite Mahler recordings from the list on the previous page:

1. S9 - Barbirolli '60
2. DLVDE - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter live
3. S7 - Klemperer
4. S8 - Horenstein
5. S6 - Barbirolli studio
6. S1 - Walter '39
7. S5 - Barbirolli
8. S4 - Mengelberg
9. DLVDE - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter studio
10. S2 - Barbirolli '70
11. S3 - Adler
12. S4 - Barbirolli
13. S2 - Klemperer '65 live
14. S5 - Horenstein
15. DLVDE - Thorborg/Ohman/Schuricht
16. S1 - Adler
17. S6 - Van Beinum
18. S4 - Guden/Walter
19. S7 - Horenstein
20. S1 - Barbirolli
21. S7 - Scherchen
22. S3 - Horenstein
23. S4 - Seefried/Walter '50
24. DLVDE - Ferrier/Lewis/Barbirolli
25. S9 - Barbirolli studio 
26. Kindertotenlieder - Ferrier/Walter
27. S6 - Bernstein DG
28. S9 - Walter '38
29. DLVDE - Hodgson/Mitchinson/Horenstein
30. S3 - Barbirolli
31. S4 - Horenstein
32. S9 - Karajan '82
33. Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen - Fischer-Dieskau/Furtwangler
34. S5 - Shipway
35. S2 - Klemperer '51
36. S1 - Walter '54 live
37. S9 - Klemperer
38. S8 - Mitropoulos
39. DLVDE - Baker/Kmentt/Kubelik
40. S5 - Schwarz
41. S6 - Horenstein '69
42. S8 - Bernstein DG
43. S1 - Mitropoulos
44. S9 - Horenstein '66
45. DLVDE - Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer
46. S2 - Mehta
47. S4 - Seefried/Walter '53
48. S1 - Kubelik
49. S8 - Solti
50. S1 - Bernstein


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## wkasimer

Becca said:


> Regarding the Levine 5th, anyone who does a 12 minute adagietto is automatically out of the running for me.


I can only imagine what you think of Haitink's Adagietto performances....


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## Josquin13

Among the conductors that knew and worked with Mahler, Frederick Charles Adler (or sometimes F. Charles Adler) rarely gets mentioned. Yet it was from Adler's Mahler recordings (& from assisting Bruno Walter) that Leonard Bernstein said he learned how to conduct Mahler (something I've long suspected, but only recently learned). Adler was one of Mahler's students, and he put Adler in charge of the chorus for the premiere of his 8th, which was the last symphony Mahler conducted. In the 1950s, Adler made recordings of Mahler's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and a partial 10th (a world premiere, with LP notes written by Alma Mahler). Despite the less than ideal sound for the 1st, 3rd & 6th, Adler's recordings are essential listening for Mahlerites, and for anyone that wishes to better understand the historical idiom of this music (violin slides & all):

https://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Sym...8&qid=1515622833&sr=1-4&keywords=adler+mahler

https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-...rd_wg=d4lvF&psc=1&refRID=6RBMDDSP8RQ6YNMDXHG0

It should also be mentioned that the young Leopold Stokowski was in the audience for the premiere of the 8th. Therefore, it's of value to hear Stokowski conduct the 8th (and other Mahler symphonies too), since as a young man Stokowski witnessed how Mahler conducted his own music. It has also been conjectured that conductor Hermann Scherchen may have played in an orchestra under Mahler's baton. At the very least, we know that Scherchen played under Oskar Fried, who Mahler had asked to conduct the 2nd performance of his 9th, with the premiere being given to Bruno Walter (to whom the symphony was dedicated). Unfortunately, I've never heard Scherchen's Mahler. Are there any fans out there?, & if so, what would you most recommend?

There was also Willem Mengelberg and Otto Klemperer too, both of whom knew & befriended Mahler, especially Mengelberg, who was an early pioneer and tireless promoter of Mahler's music, having invited Mahler to Amsterdam on numerous occasions, where he witnessed the composer conduct his 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 7th symphonies at the Concertgebouw. When Riccardo Chailly recorded his Decca Mahler cycle with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, he had access to and closely studied Mengelberg's conducting scores of the symphonies, many of which contain instructions and remarks from Mahler himself.

As for my own favorite Mahler conductors, they include F. Charles Adler, Bruno Walter, and Sir John Barbirolli (unfortunately, the sound on Fried's Resurrection is too poor); along with Otto Klemperer, Jascha Horenstein, Leopold Stokowski, and Hans Rosbaud. Those seven conductors have an understanding of Mahler's music (or idiom, if you will) that goes deeper than most that have followed after. For example, I've never heard a conductor that understood Mahler's 4th in the same way that Bruno Walter does (who recorded the work several times).

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...id=1515627910&sr=1-1&keywords=walter+mahler+4

In addition, I'm also keen on Leonard Bernstein's Columbia/Sony cycle, especially the latest DSD remasters, which are the best to date--at least on CD (though the Japanese hybrid SACDs may be even better); along with Bernstein's 2nd & 8th with the London S.O. from Ely Cathedral, despite the less than ideal sound quality; as well as Carla Maria Giulini's 1st & 9th, Karel Ancerl's 1st & 9th, and some of Rafael Kubelik's live Audite & DG Mahler recordings (especially of the earlier symphonies--though the DG & Audite sound quality for Kubelik isn't the best, and the DG recordings could use a new remastering).

Whatever flaws Bernstein's New York set may have, it's still the most exciting and involving Mahler cycle I know:

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Compl...d=1515626359&sr=1-2&keywords=Bernstein+mahler

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...1515626509&sr=1-6&keywords=Mahler+2+Bernstein

As for digital era recordings, I'd point out that Mahler's densely orchestrated symphonies are extremely difficult to do justice to in the recording studio (& concert hall), even by today's standards. The best sound I've heard to date of a Mahler symphony has come from the Japanese Exton label, via conductor Zdenek Macal's Czech Philharmonic cycle, who were given phenomenal sound engineering (it's almost like having a seat in the concert hall). Although I wouldn't claim that these are the best or most satisfying Mahler performances in the catalogue. Nevertheless, they're good, and I found it very enjoyable to hear these orchestral scores in such great detail (it's nice to hear the whole score for a change). In addition, I see that Vaclav Neumann and Eliahu Inbal have likewise recorded Mahler Symphonies for Exton, & I hope to hear those recordings at some point, since both conductors have a lot of experience conducting Mahler. (There are also Exton Mahler recordings from Manfred Honeck and Sakari Oramo, which might be worth checking out?).

https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-...8&qid=1515625935&sr=1-3&keywords=macal+mahler

Otherwise, among digital era recordings, I've most liked Gunther Herbig's Mahler 5th & 6th, parts of Bernstein's DG cycle (especially his 6th & 7th), Eliahu's Inbal's Denon cycle (especially his 5th, 7th, & 10th), Guiseppe Sinopoli's "Resurrection" (though not so much the rest of his DG cycle), and Bernard Haitink's live X-mas concerts from the Concertgebouw, which I've found to be more exciting than Haitink's studio set (though the live set doesn't comprise a complete cycle). Hartmut Haenchen's Mahler is very good too, especially his 1st & 5th. In addition, I've liked some of Claudio Abbado's 2nd DG cycle & later Berlin recordings (such as his 6th, 7th, and Lucerne 9th), and parts of Chailly's Amsterdam cycle (such as his 3rd, 8th, & 9th), and his RSO Berlin 10th. Sir Simon Rattle's two recordings of Mahler's 10th (in Bournemouth & Berlin) are fine too.

But, I've not heard Boulez, except for his DG Mahler 4th, which I was surprised I liked. Nor have I heard Michael Gielen's Mahler cycle, or any of Klaus Tennstedt's critically acclaimed live London Philharmonic, Chicago, New York, or Philadelphia Mahler recordings (though I know Tennstedt's EMI studio cycle, & wasn't overwhelmed by it).

https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-...&qid=1515626179&sr=1-2&keywords=herbig+mahler

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...&qid=1515626179&sr=1-1&keywords=herbig+mahler

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...465&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Haitink+Mahler+xmas

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...-1&keywords=hartmut+haenchen+mahler+pentatone

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...=1515628792&sr=1-1&keywords=chailly+mahler+10


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## SixFootScowl

Brahmsianhorn said:


> "I curse the conductor who does not do all he can do improve my music!"
> 
> - Gustav Mahler


Now that is an amazing statement!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Fritz Kobus said:


> Now that is an amazing statement!


It is amazing to me that composers often go through revisions upon revisions, and yet people act as if the published score is the definitive word beyond any possible improvement. Mahler himself was one of the greatest of all conductors. He understood that it is the _job_ of the conductor to do all he can to help bring what is in the composer's head to justice. If you simply blindly follow the score, according to Mahler you are not doing your job as a conductor. This is the whole concept underlying conductors such as Furtwangler who said the score is a blueprint and the truth of a work lies "behind the notes."

Klemperer's interpretation of the 7th is the closest I have ever heard to bringing the idea behind Mahler's score to life. If your only rebuttal is to point sanctimoniously to the written score, then you are at odds with Mahler himself.


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## Larkenfield

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Obviously from my list above I am a big fan of Barbirolli. His style and temperament just suit Mahler perfectly.
> 
> Probably the most controversial of my choices is Klemperer in #7. It seems that people either revere the recording as I do or dismiss it due to the slow tempos. There is no in between. I think it is a great recording that illuminates the work like no other. It may even be my favorite Mahler recording of all time. And if the only bad thing you can say about it is that it is too unconventional...well, I don't think that says a whole lot.


Having recently heard Klemperer's performance of the #7, I entirely agree about its merits. Yes, it clocks in at one-hour-and-40', but I was completely captivated and it offers a spectacular hearing of every detail in that amazing score without the entire performance falling apart-sheer sorcery to pull that off on Klemperer's part--unprecedented among the many Mahler recordings that I've heard of just about anything over the years. I consider the 7th as the composer at the height of his creative powers, in the way that he's able to so skillfully coordinate so many varied ideas that seem orchestrated by a deeper force of nature. There's also more of a feeling of the _nightime_ than I've heard in most other Mahler 7th performances... and it's well-recorded. In addition, there's nothing wrong with hearing each movement separately rather than sitting for an entire lengthy performance. I've never heard anything like it... Astonishing.


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## Becca

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Obviously from my list above I am a big fan of Barbirolli. His style and temperament just suit Mahler perfectly.
> 
> Probably the most controversial of my choices is Klemperer in #7. It seems that people either revere the recording as I do or dismiss it due to the slow tempos. There is no in between. I think it is a great recording that illuminates the work like no other. It may even be my favorite Mahler recording of all time. And if the only bad thing you can say about it is that it is too unconventional...well, I don't think that says a whole lot.


In one of life's 'if only' ... Barbirolli was scheduled to perform and record the 7th with the Berlin Philharmonic in 1971 ... unfortunately he died in 1970.


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## Malx

I will dig out my Klemperer Mahler 7th and give it a spin when I have a spare hour and three quarters available.

This morning on Radio 3 I listened to a movement from the new recording from the Düsseldorfer Symphoniker conducted by Adam Fischer of Mahler's Symphony No1 - it sounded pretty impressive, one to investigate when it is released I think!


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## CDs

After browsing parts of this thread I'm going to listen to my Tennstedt complete symphony set. I honestly have never given Mahler a good listen so should be a fun experience.

I'm also tempted to go purchase another complete set after reading all the recommendations. Thanks TC!


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## Granate

CDs said:


> After browsing parts of this thread I'm going to listen to my Tennstedt complete symphony set. I honestly have never given Mahler a good listen so should be a fun experience.
> 
> I'm also tempted to go purchase another complete set after reading all the recommendations. Thanks TC!


Go fast and get these two. I'm currently listening to all the recordings and the Black Live box has true gems. Amazon France sells that one for 25€ (normally 40€). I can't promise sound quality, but only incredibly exciting performances.



















Granate said:


> After checking out 8 Mahler cycles I haven't tried yet and several individual recordings, this is the week I kick off with the listening of all the Mahler recordings by Klaus Tennstedt with the London Philharmonic. Now playing the exclusive Symphony No.2 live from 1981 (1 year prior to the studio recording and counting with Doris Soffel).
> 
> Seriously. I didn't buy the set for the live recordings of No.1 and the first No.2 in 1981 but *I'm overwhelmed by every artistic aspect of these two recordings,* except the SQ of course. They are able to beat the studio recordings of the EMI cycle easily.
> 
> *Try to get the Live Box and probably, the ICA release for No.3. Amazon France offers the live box new for 24€ and one "comme neuf or Like New" for 14€.* The Studio set is owned my many people but the Black box is usually cheap (not now I've checked) and has live recordings of No.5 to No.7. Only symphonies who haven't been recorded live by Tennstedt are No.4 and No.9 + 10 Adagio.
> 
> This is not the Mahler I've been trying this whole summer from the likes of Jansons, Neumann, Sinopoli or Gielen. This is almost indescribable. I have been quite lucky buying these two CD sets because I caught each of them in separate times for 25€. I want to think I made the best Mahler investment.


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## CDs

The one I have is the budget set by Warner Classics. Thanks Granate!


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## endelbendel

Puzzled by repeat mentions of Mehta for Sym. 2. i explored it as potential for the closing of a therapy group for trauma recovery.
After close listening to this one and also Bernstein, older version on LP and more recent in his CD set.
Mehta is competent and the sound is good, but something is missing: feeling, awe, ardor, spirit - which are fully there in both Bernstein versions and with better sound and more delicacy, humanity, beauty and reverence on the CD.


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## Star

I was listening to the first symphony conducted by Kubelik. Really outstanding.


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## Larkenfield

endelbendel said:


> Puzzled by repeat mentions of Mehta for Sym. 2. i explored it as potential for the closing of a therapy group for trauma recovery.
> After close listening to this one and also Bernstein, older version on LP and more recent in his CD set.
> Mehta is competent and the sound is good, but something is missing: feeling, awe, ardor, spirit - which are fully there in both Bernstein versions and with better sound and more delicacy, humanity, beauty and reverence on the CD.


I had the same reaction to Mehta's recordings with the VPO and the IPO - that something was missing. I wouldn't trade either of them for Klemperer's live recording with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks.


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## auguste48

if you are a fan of multi-channel sound, I recommend the recordings by Jonathan Nott.


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## ldiat

one will never guess the person that posted the pic on Twitter.


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## Rogerx

auguste48 said:


> if you are a fan of multi-channel sound, I recommend the recordings by Jonathan Nott.


And why exactly please?


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## SixFootScowl

Rogerx said:


> And why exactly please?


_______Why Nott?


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## Rogerx

Fritz Kobus said:


> _______Why Nott?


I want a second opinion, that's all.


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## SixFootScowl

Rogerx said:


> I want a second opinion, that's all.


I just couldn't help making the play on the conductor's last name. But I should have put the grin icon  up in that post.


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## Rogerx

Fritz Kobus said:


> I just couldn't help making the play on the conductor's last name. But I should have put the grin icon  up in that post.


Now I get it :lol:


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## Kiki

Despite the fear of making things more complicated, why not Nott?  His No. 9 is powerful and magnificent, and I like the mimicked clumsiness in the Ländler and the controlled menace in the Rondo-Burleske. And fans of stereo sound should not be disappointed either. (Have to confess although I ripped the SACD layer I listen only to the stereo mix.) For the rest of his cycle, one's mileage might vary though.


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## Xisten267

What you people think about the Haitink cycle with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra? After a quick read on the posts of this thread I didn't recall to have seem a citation of it.

I ask because this is the only complete set of Mahler symphonies that I have at the moment, and the one that I used to get into his music a few years ago.


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## Granate

Allerius said:


> I ask because this is the only complete set of Mahler symphonies that I have at the moment, and the one that I used to get into his music a few years ago.


This forum is not an avid lover of Haitink recordings of the orchestral side of late Romanticism. I don't usually find as many positive comments for Haitink than I find for Abbado, Bertini, Bernstein... and other cycles I don't find so attractive. These are my comments about the RCO cycle:

"As he did with Bruckner, Haitink and the Concertgebouworkest score a straight early Mahler cycle that could hardly become a reference. The sound is generally good. And performance quality boosts in No.1, No.3, No.6 and No.9. The downs are in the dulls No.5 and No.8."

Look for *site:talkclassical.com haitink+mahler* on google. Maybe you find more results.

_Was it too "Dutch"?_


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## Josquin13

Allerius asks, "What you people think about the Haitink cycle with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra?"

Though it was never entirely finished as a cycle, as intended, Haitink's later live Mahler Christmas matinee concerts at the Concertgebouw in the 1980s are exceptional, in my estimation. Granted, Haitink isn't always the most exciting conductor around, but he can always be depended upon to pay scrupulous attention to the score and give solid performances (if, at times, he becomes a tad too literal to the score). However, his live Mahler performances at the Concertgebouw surprised the critics, as they are very exciting. I'd even bet, in a blind listening test, that a number of people who dislike Haitink's Mahler would be surprised to find out these performances are conducted by Haitink. For me, Haitink's live Christmas matinee concerts are better than both his earlier studio cycle & digital Berlin Philharmonic series (likewise on Philips). It looks like most, if not all of the live Concertgebouw performances can be heard & watched on You Tube (as the concerts were filmed). Here's a link to Haitink's remarkable matinee 5th, as an initial sampling:






His live matinee 9th is also exceptional (& again, preferable to his earlier studio 9th, IMO): 




Here are links to others:

2nd: 



3rd: 



7th: 



8th (not in the box): 




https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...r0&keywords=haitink+mahler+christmas+concerts
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4201/
http://www.classicalcdreview.com/haitmah.html

However, since I last posted on this thread, I've discovered two excellent Mahler cycles, which I don't yet know in their entirety, but which have impressed me so far. They are (1) Leif Segerstam's Chandos cycle with the Danish National R.S.O.(who are a first class Mahler orchestra), and (2) Riccardo Chailly's 2nd Mahler cycle, made during his tenure with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. It's surprises me that Segerstam hasn't been mentioned on this thread so far, as he's a fine Mahler conductor, in my estimation, & one that conducts the full breadth & detail of the scores (though some may feel that he occasionally slows down too much).

While I liked parts of Chailly's earlier studio cycle with the Concertgebouw & Berlin R.S.O. (esp. the 3rd, 8th, 9th, & 10th), what I've heard so far of his more recent live Leipzig cycle is even more impressive. Judging from Chailly's 6th & 9th in Leipzig, it may be the finest digital cycle in the catalogue (& I wish they'd re-release it on CD or Hybrid SACD instead of just blu-ray). As with Haitink, it appears that Chailly's Mahler is even better live (albeit with one studio cycle already under his belt). Here are links to the excellent performances that I've heard so far from both cycles:

Riccardo Chailly:

Mahler 9th:





https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...=1-3-catcorr&keywords=chailly+mahler++leipzig

Mahler 6th--Here are selections from the 6th (I prefer how Chailly conducts the beginning of the 6th to Barbirolli, who makes the music almost seem to stutter at the opening: which is eccentric to how other conductors handle this passage): 




https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...90763&sr=1-5&keywords=chailly+mahler++leipzig

For further sampling, here are more selections from various symphonies: 




Leif Segerstam:

Mahler 6th:






Mahler 5th (Segerstam is one of those conductors that slows down in the Adagio, which I don't often agree with, as neither Mengelberg or Walter do so, & by slowing the movement down it somehow feels like a less impassioned "love poem" to Mahler's wife, Alma--which is the subject matter of the movement, as the composer told Mengelberg; however, Segerstam makes it work, IMO):


















Mahler 9th:



Mahler 10th (Adagio): 




Another fine, underrated Mahler conductor from the digital era--who hasn't been mentioned so far on the thread--is Gunther Herbig. I especially admire Herbig's accounts of the 5th & 6th:










With that said, I'd still recommend Leonard Bernstein's Columbia/Sony cycle as my first choice among Mahler 1-9 cycles, especially in the set's latest DSD remasters, which are superior to the earlier Sony remasters by a good margin. Indeed it's one of the real bargains in the catalogue, IMO (esp. when available for under $25 new): https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Compl...d=1537296356&sr=1-1&keywords=mahler+bernstein










I'd supplement the Bernstein Sony set with Bernstein's LSO 2nd from Ely Cathedral (the DVD seems to offer better sound), and his Vienna 6th on DG (& possibly his DG 1st & 5th--though I'm overly a fan of Bernstein's Vienna/DG years); along with various recordings from other top Mahler conductors (most of whom have already been mentioned on the thread)--i.e., Klemperer, Kubelik, Barbirolli, Adler, Walter, Giulini, Ancerl, Horenstein, etc..










Finally, historically speaking, I wouldn't want to be without F. Charles Adler's Mahler 2nd & 10th in my collection, nor Bruno Walter's 4th:



























Nor would I want to be without Dame Janet Baker singing Mahler's orchestral song cycles, with Sir John Barbirolli conducting:


















My two cents.


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## millionrainbows

Fritz Kobus said:


> Just won off of ebay for $15.50 shipped. Description is "Like New: An item that looks as if it was just taken out of shrink wrap. No visible wear, and all facets of the item are flawless and intact."
> 
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> Now my plan, and let's see if I can stick with it. Is to get to know this set, one symphony at a time. That is, I don't want to listen through the whole set all at once but slowly savor each one. I will start with the first, which I saw live last October. I think this is going to be a fascinating excursion.


That was a good bargain, but I held out for the newer remastering, which has a red band across the front reading "Carnegie Hall Presents." They went back to the multitrack reels and redid it from scratch, and the detail is superior:










Hey! Just because Mahler's symphonies were so long, doesn't mean our posts have to be humongous!


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## perempe

do horn players hate to stand up for the finale of symphony no. 1? they did it a year ago (Budapest Philharmonic), and "they" do it on youtube.


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## Xisten267

Thanks for the answers, Granate and Josquin13. In time, I think that I should listen to other performances of Mahler's symphonies, and I think that the recommendations that you provided together with the others on this thread can give me a good picture of where to start. It seems to me that, in overall, Bernstein is the main recommendation for Mahler in this thread, so I think that I'll try his cycle next.


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## mbhaub

perempe said:


> do horn players hate to stand up for the finale of symphony no. 1? they did it a year ago (Budapest Philharmonic), and "they" do it on youtube.


Not horn players I know - they love playing Mahler because the horn parts are superb in every symphony and really let a good section shine. The only problem with standing is making sure you can read the music. There are other times in this symphony when Mahler write that the oboes and clarinets should also play "bells up" - not standing, and it does increase the volume and presence of the sound. Some of these players DO resist. It puts the reeds at an awkward position.


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## Becca

mbhaub said:


> Not horn players I know - they love playing Mahler because the horn parts are superb in every symphony and really let a good section shine. The only problem with standing is making sure you can read the music. There are other times in this symphony when Mahler write that the oboes and clarinets should also play "bells up" - not standing, and it does increase the volume and presence of the sound. Some of these players DO resist. It puts the reeds at an awkward position.


I remember seeing a cartoon that said "Mahler - Crack for Horns" :lol:

There is a video of Claudio Abbado rehearsing the Mahler 1st during his first year at the Berlin Philharmonic ... the horn section all stood up at the place whereupon Abbado stopped everyone and told the horns not to do it in his performances! And Mahler did write that instruction in the score.


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## jdec

Becca said:


> I remember seeing a cartoon that said "Mahler - Crack for Horns" :lol:
> 
> There is a video of Claudio Abbado rehearsing the Mahler 1st during his first year at the Berlin Philharmonic ... the horn section all stood up at the place whereupon Abbado stopped everyone and told the horns not to do it in his performances! And Mahler did write that instruction in the score.


He must have changed his mind. 55:13


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## Granate

Allerius said:


> Thanks for the answers, Granate and Josquin13. In time, I think that I should listen to other performances of Mahler's symphonies, and I think that the recommendations that you provided together with the others on this thread can give me a good picture of where to start. It seems to me that, in overall, Bernstein is the main recommendation for Mahler in this thread, so I think that I'll try his cycle next.












Instead of falling into the Bernstein wormhole first, this would be the set I would reccommend to beginners. One looks Mahler from the conductor's point of view, and the other from the orchestra and engineering side.

I'm just lazy to put my reccommendations here because there are dozens of Mahler threads to visit.


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## Kiki

Allerius said:


> Thanks for the answers, Granate and Josquin13. In time, I think that I should listen to other performances of Mahler's symphonies, and I think that the recommendations that you provided together with the others on this thread can give me a good picture of where to start. It seems to me that, in overall, Bernstein is the main recommendation for Mahler in this thread, so I think that I'll try his cycle next.


Bernstein's is in general a powerful, heart-on-sleeve emotional outburst that is rather different from Haitink's non-sensational, meticulously played, didn't-put-a-foot-wrong performance. Not to say which is better, including other conductors, they all have their moments. IMHO that's what makes discovering music (or performance) so much fun.


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## Josquin13

Correction: Unfortunately, I'm no longer able to edit my post above, but I meant to write, "I'd supplement the Bernstein Sony set with Bernstein's LSO 2nd from Ely Cathedral, and his Vienna 6th on DG (& possibly his DG 1st & 5th--though I'm [NOT] overly a fan of Bernstein's Vienna/DG years), rather than "I'm overly a fan of Bernstein's Vienna/DG years"...


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## Guest

I would really love to hear the Des Moines Symphony play the Mahler 1st this weekend. But my parents are both having health problems and I doubt I will make it to the concert.


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## wkasimer

millionrainbows said:


> That was a good bargain, but I held out for the newer remastering, which has a red band across the front reading "Carnegie Hall Presents." They went back to the multitrack reels and redid it from scratch, and the detail is superior:


I'm pretty sure that this "original jacket" set uses the same remastering, and is probably more easily available (it's $30 on Amazon at the moment):


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## Larkenfield

wkasimer said:


> I'm pretty sure that this "original jacket" set uses the same remastering, and is probably more easily available (it's $30 on Amazon at the moment):
> 
> View attachment 108056


These are excellent recordings worthy of any collection, IMO. There's a wonderful sense of discovery in Bernstein's NYP recordings that I don't find in many of his later more self-indulgent DG performances.

Bernstein was incredibly important to the Mahler revival that started in 1960, the centennial of the composer's birth. That was a landmark event because Bruno Walter was there, who was a colleague and friend of Mahler, Mahler's former wife Alma was there, as well as members of the New York Phil who had played with Mahler 50 years before. Bernstein had also talked about Mahler on one of his Young People's Concerts that was viewed by millions of people on network television.

Bernstein very much identified with Mahler because he was a conductor/composer just like Bernstein and all the complications that can result from that in a musician's life. Eventually, it seems, Bernstein so identified with Mahler that he talked as if he _was_ Mahler himself. I thought that overstepped the boundaries of what a conductor was supposed to be and do. I also liked how Walter played Mahler, sounding far more idiomatic to me, but he never recorded a complete cycle of the symphonies, perhaps because he thought the 6th was just too tragic and bleak to perform. He never did, but Bernstein went ahead and of course did them all.

Nevertheless, he wasn't the first conductor to record a complete cycle. That honor went to Maurice Abravanel and the Utah Symphony and his fine performances that are still worth hearing. By Mahler revival, I'm not suggesting that his symphonies weren't being performed at all after WW2, but this time there was a steady momentum that started to build and I believe it has continued ever since up until today. It should not be forgotten that Mahler was not approved of (being Jewish) or performed in Europe under the Nazis. He was banned. So there was a break in the continuity of Mahler being played during those terrible years in Germany in Europe under Hitler. The Mahler centennial was like putting the stamp of approval on the person and these remarkable symphonies.


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## Becca

While I don't disagree with most of what Larkenfield said, it is a very US-centric view of what was a far more wide-spread set of developments. Others who were already very involved by 1960 include Otto Klemperer, Berthold Goldschmidt, John Barbirolli, Deryck Cooke, Jascha Horenstein and Paul Kletzki amongst others. As an example, the first public performance of parts of Cooke's performing edition of the 10th symphony was given in London in that year by Goldschmidt and the Philharmonia and broadcast by the BBC. While Bernstein certainly did a lot to promote Mahler in the US, it was Klemperer and particularly Barbirolli who were mostly responsible for reintroducing Mahler into Germany, and Europe in general, in the late 50s and early 60s.


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## 13hm13

My humble opinions on Bernstein and Mahler (and Bernstein, in general, for that matter)....

I think LB allowed himself to become a bit too overwhelmed with emotion DURING his conducting (as visible in videos). I feel this "trips up" the orchestra, and disrupts the smooth flow (.e.g, pacing) of the transcription.
An example of this is Mahler 1/NYP (see cover art below). E.g., mvt. 1. It's fast and exciting, but uneven pacing spoils it for me. (And uneven pacing is, IMO, a signature Bernstein flaw).


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## 13hm13

I recently posted in the Tony Falulkner thread. In the OP's video, Faulkner discusses his 2002 recording project of LSO/Mariss Jansons/Mahler 6. It is one of the few Faulkner projects that may have ended in disaster -- you'll have to watch the video for that account. Hint: there was supposed to have been an SACD release.

I recently acquired this recording but have not listened to it. I'm certain the _recording_ will be superb, but unsure what to expect of the _performance_.
Anyone else have it?


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## Enthusiast

^^^ I do. It is one of my very few favourites and is generally very well thought of.


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## Heck148

13hm13 said:


> .
> I think LB allowed himself to become a bit too overwhelmed with emotion DURING his conducting (as visible in videos). I feel this "trips up" the orchestra, and disrupts the smooth flow (.e.g, pacing) of the transcription.


That's a good observation, with which I tend to agree....Lenny's Mahler can be "over-wrought" - like he's trying to beat us over the head with how great the music is....as if we have Mahler's hyper_-espressivo_, and then a layer of Bernstein laid over the top of that...Bernstein was a great conductor, one of my favorites, effective over a large range of repertoire; but Mahler is not his strongest, imo...many will disagree, of course


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## Guest

the greatest symphonist ever is mahler, because his works are open-minded and include nature, human feelings (particularly his own life) and spiritualism; they also feature an incomparable array of instruments and make full use of the human voice as an instrument; my favourites are the 3rd and the 9th; i do not think that Karajan's achievement with the 9th can be bettered, although Abbado's version with the Lucern orchestra is out of this world; the 3rd is my favourite symphony and I believe Honeck's interpretation is the best ever although I have a lot of love for Horenstein's version which it is from another era


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## Manxfeeder

marc bollansee said:


> Tthe 3rd is my favourite symphony and I believe Honeck's interpretation is the best ever although I have a lot of love for Horenstein's version which it is from another era


It's my favorite also. It's the true Mahler kitchen sink: from rocks to flowers to cows to a little cosmic angst, then kids, and finally you find God.


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## Merl

13hm13 said:


> I recently posted in the Tony Falulkner thread. In the OP's video, Faulkner discusses his 2002 recording project of LSO/Mariss Jansons/Mahler 6. It is one of the few Faulkner projects that may have ended in disaster -- you'll have to watch the video for that account. Hint: there was supposed to have been an SACD release.
> 
> I recently acquired this recording but have not listened to it. I'm certain the _recording_ will be superb, but unsure what to expect of the _performance_.
> Anyone else have it?


It's excellent. I love this disc. As far as Bernstein's Mahler is concerned I like some performances in both cycles whilst others have very OTT moments.


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## Becca

There are two M6 versions at the top of my list, the Barbirolli/New Philharmonia/Proms live performance on Testament and equal to it but different...


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## Enthusiast

I listened to quite a few Mahler 6s a few weeks ago - I just couldn't let the work go - and remember that five recordings really stood out for me: the studio Barbirolli, the LSO Jansons, the Vienna Bernstein, the Boulez and the Mitropoulos (NYPO). I would not have expected some of those being in my top 5 but they were the ones that really transported me although I know that I wouldn't want to listen to the Bernstein all that often. I also greatly enjoyed the Pappano, the Levi and the Thomas Sanderling but didn't find them (on that occasion anyway) to be quite as exalted as the five.


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## vmartell

Becca said:


> While Bernstein certainly did a lot to promote Mahler in the US, it was Klemperer and particularly Barbirolli who were mostly responsible for reintroducing Mahler into Germany, and Europe in general, in the late 50s and early 60s.


And Kubelik! His DG Cycle was contemporaneous with Bernstein's and much more well known in Europe given that a lot of Lenny's NY Cycle was not released there until much later than in the USA.

v


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## Brahmsianhorn

If you ever come across the Eduard van Beinum 6th, snap it up. It’s live from the 50s but even more exiting than Mitropoulos IMO. My favorite 6th along with Barbirolli’s studio and Bernstein/VPO.


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## Enthusiast

Brahmsianhorn said:


> If you ever come across the Eduard van Beinum 6th, snap it up. It's live from the 50s but even more exiting than Mitropoulos IMO. My favorite 6th along with Barbirolli's studio and Bernstein/VPO.


Is it this one?


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## Brahmsianhorn

Enthusiast said:


> Is it this one?
> 
> View attachment 110931


Yes, it is that one!


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## SixFootScowl

I have been led to believe (through other's coments and through listening) that the best Mahler 5th symphony is,


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## Brahmsianhorn

Fritz Kobus said:


> I have been led to believe (through other's coments and through listening) that the best Mahler 5th symphony is,


I certainly would not argue with anyone saying that it is! For me it is neck and neck with Barbirolli.


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## DavidA

I note that Tennstedt's Mahler is available as a bargain box. Any thoughts on his Mahler?


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## Larkenfield

DavidA said:


> I note that Tennstedt's Mahler is available as a bargain box. Any thoughts on his Mahler?


Most of his live Mahler recordings are available online as a preview. Of the ones I've heard, the sound quality is outstanding and there's rare depth and insight in his interpretations with the outstanding London Philharmonic Orchestra. Here is a detailed review of this 16 CD box set:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Aug11/Mahler_Tennstedt_0944932.htm


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## Larkenfield

Mahler's Adagietto from his Fifth Symphony... _the perfect soundtrack for the beauty of remembering_... "Gucci Guilty".


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## Enthusiast

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I certainly would not argue with anyone saying that it is! For me it is neck and neck with Barbirolli.


For me, Shipway's 5 is a good one but there are many that are better. I am always a little baffled by quite how highly many praise it. Is it because the name is not a big one?


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## NLAdriaan

As a box (individual readings would lead to a different and preferred recommendation), I think I would recommend the last Mahler box of Abbado:









or the Chailly/Concertgebouw on Decca:


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## Brahmsianhorn

Enthusiast said:


> For me, Shipway's 5 is a good one but there are many that are better. I am always a little baffled by quite how highly many praise it. Is it because the name is not a big one?


It's because it's really good, exciting with an exquisite adagietto


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## Enthusiast

^^^ OK ... our opinions differ _slightly_.


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## larold

_For me, Shipway's 5 is a good one but there are many that are better. I am always a little baffled by quite how highly many praise it. Is it because the name is not a big one? _

Shipway is English and his version was hailed in the Penguin Guide, thus the popularity. I couldn't agree more there are many better, a slew in fact. I'd say Walter, Abbado, Barbirolli, Karajan, Tennstedt, Boulez, Levine-Philadelphia, Neumann-Gewandhaus, Solti and Harold Faberman, just of those I know, being better.


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## Oldhoosierdude

larold said:


> _For me, Shipway's 5 is a good one but there are many that are better. I am always a little baffled by quite how highly many praise it. Is it because the name is not a big one? _
> 
> Shipway is English and his version was hailed in the Penguin Guide, thus the popularity. I couldn't agree more there are many better, a slew in fact. I'd say Walter, Abbado, Barbirolli, Karajan, Tennstedt, Boulez, Levine-Philadelphia, Neumann-Gewandhaus, Solti and Harold Faberman, just of those I know, being better.


Don't know that there is a "better" unless it's my spouse saying I had "better" be home on time.

I like a number of Mahler recordings, shipway is a good one.


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## Brahmsianhorn

larold said:


> Shipway is English and his version was hailed in the Penguin Guide, thus the popularity. I couldn't agree more there are many better, a slew in fact. I'd say Walter, Abbado, Barbirolli, Karajan, Tennstedt, Boulez, Levine-Philadelphia, Neumann-Gewandhaus, Solti and Harold Faberman, just of those I know, being better.


I am very much not English and never saw the Shipway reviewed in the Penguin guide. I did a survey of dozens of Mahler 5ths a couple of years ago, and Shipway stood out along with Barbirolli, Horenstein, Schwarz and Bernstein.

I guess people always have to invent a rationalization when others' opinions don't fit their own. :lol:

For the record I also like Neumann '67, Walter, Scherchen, Mitropoulos, Kubelik '51, Barshai, Levine, Tennstedt '88, Abbado, and Karajan, but not as much as the above five.


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## Becca

Brahmsianhorn said:


> It's because it's really good, exciting with an exquisite adagietto


...that stretches interminably ... so no thank you!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Becca said:


> ...that stretches interminably ... so no thank you!


Are you familiar with Schwarz on Everest? One of my favorites. A rather quick adagietto, but done very musically. I've heard Mahler preferred it that way.

Shipway's may be longish, but he sustains it beautifully IMO


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## Becca

I am not familiar with Schwarz, my current favourite being Barshai. 

As to sustaining, that may well be, but for me it totally destroys the balance of the whole symphony.


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## wkasimer

Becca said:


> As to sustaining, that may well be, but for me it totally destroys the balance of the whole symphony.


I agree - anything over about 9 minutes is excessive lingering. Mahler's disciple Bruno Walter recorded it twice - 8:10 and 7:35. The latter is about the same as Schwarz.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I think Barbirolli's tempo for the adagietto is perfect in what is my favorite recording of this symphony. Tender and beautiful, but never langouring.

But I also like Schwarz, Shipway, Horenstein, and Bernstein, all convincing in their different ways.


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