# Selling Classical Music - excerpts from symphonic telemarketing conversations



## dantejones (Jan 14, 2015)

_One of my jobs is to sell tickets to Symphony (not naming which one) patrons as a phone agent. One shift we've experienced since the hiring of the last music director is a frequency of living/recently deceased (Ha! that means died in the last 50 years) compsers' music on the programs. Despite this, it should be said that our subscriptions remain strong. Here are some of their comments on our artistic programming:_

'You guys sneak in these new pieces between the old ones. What's wrong with Borodin?'

'I don't go because i don't like that new music crap you put on the concerts.'

'You know, I just went for a class, so i don't think i'm that interested.'

'We'd like to subscribe, but we have other arts organizations we support too.'

'I've tried to get into modern music, but i just can't bring myself to appreciate it. Why doesn't the symphony put all the modern music onto a subscription series?'

'I like it, but my husband doesn't'

'why don't you guys have discounts for students?' ......_oh, do we ever have discounts for students, we practically give them away!_

_Anybody see any themes?_


----------



## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Sorry to admit it but I will say literally anything to get telemarketers off the line. Deny the glory of Bach, say Tchaikovsky is too modern for me, tell them i'm deaf, claim Webern killed my beloved dog Tonality. So i'm not sure you can describe trends in classical music listening from such conversations.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

One thing I know and having experienced doing sales for both the Philadelphia and Utah Symphonies is that these clients want the rehashed warhorses. They ain't going for Webern any time soon.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

The Nielsen TV folks have been calling me multiple times to discuss using my home as one of their rating sites. Last time I got the dreaded call, I told the guy that I couldn't stay on the line because I was watching a very important tv program.


----------



## dantejones (Jan 14, 2015)

Quack, the VAST majority of my calls go right to voicemail, and a BIG majority of people who answer will indeed say anything to get off the phone. 

Contrary to what you may have inferred, these excerpts come from people that do not mind spending time talking on the phone, either to vent, suggest a new idea, or share a blunt truth (' just went for a class'). This job is a great way to find out what average classical music/symphonic fans really think about going to live concerts/newer music mixed in with the classics, etc.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I don't find those responses surprising. One caveat is, if you're calling past/current subscribers only, you are missing the opinions of others who potentially could join.


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> I don't find those responses surprising. One caveat is, if you're calling past/current subscribers only, you are missing the opinions of others who potentially could join.


Yeah. I suspect, though can't prove, that there's an untapped younger audience that could be persuaded to go to the symphony if orchestras played a lot more modern music. Maybe this is wishful thinking.


----------



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

My experience of classical concert goers is that you are dealing with an older, conservative audience who may well have decided what they like.
They may be quite happy with standard concert repertoire, because there is plenty of it to choose from.
There might be a whole new audience out there for radical new stuff, but can the orchestra afford the financial risk of trying to find out?


----------



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes, that's the problem. But the old ultraconservative audience is not long for this world, frankly, so at some point they'll be forced to try something new. What I've seen so far has been misguided pop crossover attempts, which I don't think is going to attract a significant audience.


----------



## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Perhaps there needs to be more use in popular culture of classical from the last couple of generations, like, say, a RomCom film where Hugh Jackman meets Scarlet Johansen at a Takemitsu or Messiaen concert, and the music of those composers marks and reflects the tragectory of the relationship, with lots of name-checking of work titles - or that kind of thing. Create associations other than the false but persistent "new=scary/messy".


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

No kidding. 

Does it pay well? What's the commish like?


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

dantejones said:


> Quack, the VAST majority of my calls go right to voicemail, and a BIG majority of people who answer will indeed say anything to get off the phone.
> 
> Contrary to what you may have inferred, these excerpts come from people that do not mind spending time talking on the phone, either to vent, suggest a new idea, or share a blunt truth (' just went for a class'). This job is a great way to find out what average classical music/symphonic fans really think about going to live concerts/newer music mixed in with the classics, etc.


Yeah,some people will actually yap yap yap for hours if you let them.

You really learn how to spot a lie through cross-questioning and in spite of what most people think of their abilities to bluff/lie/etc, callees have lots of "tell"... You can tell a ...lot... about someone in a 5 minutes phone convo.

What's great with telesales unlike any other forms of marketing, the campaign has direct live feedback. 
I mean either you buy or you don't. There's not much more direct then this.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

What's wrong with Borodin?


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> What's wrong with Borodin?


"He has less taste than Cui, and his technique is so poor that he cannot write a bar without assistance." --Tchaikovsky


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Tchaikovsky the 'I shall made up stuff against the guy I don't like' bitch.
Cui who?


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Tchaikovsky the 'I shall made up stuff against the guy I don't like' bitch.
> Cui who?


"Cui is a gifted amateur. His music is not original, but graceful and elegant; it is too coquettish, made up so to speak. At first it pleases, but soon satiates us." "...he sails in shallow waters." --Tchaikovsky


----------



## OlivierM (Jul 31, 2014)

"Tchaikovsky is a gifted amateur. His music is not original, but graceful and elegant; it is too coquettish, made up so to speak. At first it pleases, but soon satiates us." --OlivierM, who won't exchange 10 pounds of Tchaikovsky for 1 pound of Cui.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

You are reaching _only_ those old-school enough to answer a call not on their caller ID lists. One way or another, that entire group _is not 'contemporary.'_ LOL.

I think I am in the current majority here: Any call without a caller ID on it goes straight to messages, to be vetted later. It would be the same if I had a land-line and answering machine. (.. and I am a senior citizen; those I know my age and up, or younger -- all vet their incoming calls the same way.

It is yet another complete bumble on the part of severely out of touch symphony boards to even think to use telemarketing, or to keep their telemarketing platform running.

Telemarketing -- as far as reaching those of a more contemporary mentality -- is dead.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Telemarketing is the scourge of the earth. Telemarketers should be drawn and quartered.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Cui who?


Cui qui? ___________________________


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I attended a concert of a chamber music series run by the (world-class) symphony in my town, the performers from that orchestra. With me were two acquaintances, both well-educated and truly likeable people: there were a couple, he a youngish member of the symphony board, his fiance one of the violinists with same said symphony.

The 'modern' work on the program was a wind trio (maybe quartet) by Alexander Tansman. They both turned to me before it began and asked, 'What are we going to hear?" I said "Pleasant, gently modern mid 20th century neoclassical."

That anecdote, the younger symphony board member (far younger than most of those on that board) and the symphonic player -- clueless about some of the very readily palatable music by a composer "dead about fifty years ago." One good thing to say there, they both found the music as I had described, perfectly pleasant and easy enough to listen to.

Another professional chamber orchestra in the same city had lately hired as director of its Public Relations a professional whose entire previous marketing experience was in sports and sporting goods!?!?

Maybe others than upper-middle class businessmen who know little of music other than 'what they like' would better serve as board members and board directors, and the PR agents they hire might be required to know more of classical music than "nothing." -- i.e. maybe those running these music institutions need to be swept out clean, replaced near completely with those from a younger _and far more qualified_ generation if these orchestras want to survive.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I think a much more positive way to interest people and 'get the word out' is with a flyer campaign. Have a nice brochure printed with the annual program and costs and, perhaps, a coupon for reductions to orders placed weeks before a concert night, and have the postman or a flyer delivery service carry them out.

A telephone solicitation in intrusive, inopportune, presumptuous and instills a feeling of guilt (for not supporting the arts, a worthy cause, etc.) on the part of the client, while an interesting flyer might land on a coffee table for later consideration.


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

Vaneyes said:


> Telemarketing is the scourge of the earth. Telemarketers should be drawn and quartered.


Come at me,bro.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I've never encountered such telemarketers but I have seen the TV classical music commercials and they are pathetic. 
They always seem to get some stuff shirt with a haughty upper crust British accent which is guaranteed not to play well in the typical US household, extolling the virtues of the "classics". "Ahhh yes....!!!" which translates to "Oh! No!" to the typical viewer.
Just in case potentially one or two people would actually watch, they make sure the commercial runs at 2:30AM to keep the viewer count at zero.


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Telemarketing -- as far as reaching those of a more contemporary mentality -- is dead.


Yeah, and how many things have you sold by phone yourself before making sweeping statements?


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> Yes, that's the problem. But the old ultraconservative audience is not long for this world, frankly, so at some point they'll be forced to try something new.


I doubt it. That old ultraconservative audience will continue as is. When they're dead, another ultraconservative audience will spring up.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Telemarketing may not be a noble profession but in the service of classical music it is a noble job.

Promoting the orchestra or opera is very hard to do in today's era.

And orchestra ears are changing remarkably.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GhenghisKhan said:


> Yeah, and how many things have you sold by phone yourself before making sweeping statements?


Uh, unless you've been doing that telemarketing for years, probably more than you -- not that it is a contest.

The fact is, a huge percentage of people with telephones, cell or landline, use caller ID and don't pick up any unidentified calls. Add the billions where there is a state-legislated register your number for the "Do Not Call List" exactly to not get any unsolicited sales calls, and who, and how many, are left to call at all?


----------



## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

I do not know about the arts world, but B2C phone sales is still very much alive elsewhere in spite of the DNC and caller ID.

There's enough people to call to put whole rooms on autodialers and have them run for years. I can accept that some campaigns will fail, but general criticism of telemarketing seems like a rather 50/50 explanation.

If others have made TM work for their offers in spite the restrictions mentioned in this thread, wouldn't you agree then that other factors are at play in this case?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

GhenghisKhan said:


> I do not know about the arts world, but B2C phone sales is still very much alive elsewhere in spite of the DNC and caller ID.
> 
> There's enough people to call to put whole rooms on autodialers and have them run for years. I can accept that some campaigns will fail, but general criticism of telemarketing seems like a rather 50/50 explanation.
> 
> If others have made TM work for their offers in spite the restrictions mentioned in this thread, wouldn't you agree then that other factors are at play in this case?


Bear with me:
In my area, which has one of the world's top ten most highly reputed performing symphonies, that organization too has telemarketers. An acquaintance, who had 'well enough' of his own money without needing to work, did it for some extra pocket money (some moderately wealthy are truly misers) and for something to do on a regular basis -- and he liked 'culture' enough to do it (his first tier taste was for Broadway musicals, etc.) He got _far less than minimum wage,_ and a small commission bump for each subscription sold.

That organization paid less than minimum wage, and a far less than average percent commission on a sale. The workers then, were assumed to be quasi-volunteer, not in need of even a part-time income that working 20 hours a week would net from working for, say, Starbucks or simile, and if the entire enterprise was run at more normal cost per employee hour, it would go bust. Overall, neither sales or running costs any where near efficient to say it was worthwhile.

Without asking at all what you earn while working there, how many sales of one subscription series membership do you think you average per week, or per month? And if you don't mind, if you are working a half or full day five days a week, is it paying enough to at least eke out a basic living?


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Bear with me:
> In my area, which has one of the world's top ten most highly reputed performing symphonies, that organization too has telemarketers. An acquaintance, who had 'well enough' of his own money without needing to work, did it for some extra pocket money (some moderately wealthy are truly misers) and for something to do on a regular basis -- and he liked 'culture' enough to do it (his first tier taste was for Broadway musicals, etc.) He got _far less than minimum wage,_ and a small commission bump for each subscription sold.
> 
> That organization paid less than minimum wage, and a far less than average percent commission on a sale. The workers then, were assumed to be quasi-volunteer, not in need of even a part-time income that working 20 hours a week would net from working for, say, Starbucks or simile, and if the entire enterprise was run at more normal cost per employee hour, it would go bust. Overall, neither sales or running costs any where near efficient to say it was worthwhile.
> ...


I remember when I did this for the Philadelphia Orchestra over 10 years ago I was averaging about $500-$1100 per week on a paycheck. That was the heyday around the early 2000's.

Utah Symphony is a lot smaller operation so not as much payout.


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

isorhythm said:


> Yeah. I suspect, though can't prove, that there's an untapped younger audience that could be persuaded to go to the symphony if orchestras played a lot more modern music. Maybe this is wishful thinking.


Not wishful thinking in fact. I really do think the same as well. Where is Steve Reich at the Utah Symphony?


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

PetrB said:


> Cui qui? ___________________________


cui generis___________________________


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Unfortunately the late night telemarketing videos I've seen all have upper crust British announcers proclaiming the excellence of "the best classical music excerpts" in performances off the telly that seem to be mediocre at best.

All this does is re-enforce old stereotypes about our music and who listens to it.

They just don't seem to "get it". "High brow" doesn't seem to work with "low brow".


----------



## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Are you telling me that there are under 30s out there that use a telephone that isn't for texting?!? :lol:


----------



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> Are you telling me that there are under 30s out there that use a telephone that isn't for texting?!? :lol:


Yeah and a lot of them live with their parents.


----------

