# Bruckner and Sonata form



## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

I recently came across this quote from Deryck Cooke:

"Despite its general debt to Beethoven and Wagner, the “Bruckner Symphony” is a unique conception, not only because of the individuality of its spirit and its materials, but even more because of the absolute originality of its formal processes. At first, these processes seemed so strange and unprecedented that they were taken as evidence of sheer incompetence…. Now it is recognized that Bruckner’s unorthodox structural methods were inevitable…. Bruckner created a new and monumental type of symphonic organism, which abjured the tense, dynamic continuity of Beethoven, and the broad, fluid continuity of Wagner, in order to express something profoundly different from either composer, something elemental and metaphysical…his extraordinary attitude to the world, and the nature of his materials which arose from this attitude, dictated an entirely unorthodox handling of the traditional formal procedures. Sonata form is a dynamic, humanistic process, always going somewhere, constantly trying to arrive; but with Bruckner firm in his religious faith, the music has no need to go anywhere, no need to find a point of arrival, because it is already there…Experiencing Bruckner’s symphonic music is more like walking around a cathedral, and taking in each aspect of it, than like setting out on a journey to some hoped-for goal."

So I'm curious, what exactly is it that makes Bruckner's use of the sonata form so "unorthodox"? Any specific examples to compare and contrast to more orthodox sonata form movements would be great.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I can agree with his description of elemental. Here is an interesting analysis of his symphonies

https://www.abruckner.com/Data/arti...vedt_bruckners_approach_to_symphonic-form.pdf

So he followed certain aspects, and deviated quite dramatically. The thing I notice most when listening is he uses little transitional music between sections". He jumps between sections and themes quite dramatically. It sounds clumsy in a way, but it is also progressive.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Wild Thing,
Read the excellent essay Phil linked above. It makes the kind of comparisons you seem to be seeking and it cites top notch scholars throughout. I haven't finished the essay yet, but the Festschrift of which it is part has other good stuff in it too, some of which I've come across before.


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> Wild Thing,
> Read the excellent essay Phil linked above. It makes the kind of comparisons you seem to be seeking and it cites top notch scholars throughout. I haven't finished the essay yet, but the Festschrift of which it is part has other good stuff in it too, some of which I've come across before.


Yes, this is exactly the kind of analysis I was looking for! Thanks Phil!


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