# piano for symphony orchestra



## sree (May 31, 2009)

*piano concertos by great masters*

Hi,

Can you recommend a few best of piano concertos by great masters...

Cheers!!!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can you recommend a few best of piano for symphony orchestra by great masters...
> 
> Cheers!!!


Are you asking for piano concertos?


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Hi ,, Yes it is about piano concertos.. sorry


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> Hi ,, Yes it is about piano concertos.. sorry


Alright, this is good.

I'll limit my suggestions to just 5 (this is almost impossible, but I'll try):

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 2 - performed by Sviatoslav Richter

Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major - performed by Martha Argerich

Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2 - performed by Emil Gilels

Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 4 (for the left-hand) - performed by Vladimir Ashkenazy

Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 - performed by Murray Perahia


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Dear Mirror Image,

Thanks a lot for the list. I will listen to these great musical works. Thanks...


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Dear Mirror Image,

One more help!!!

Can u recommend a few web sites or books where an analysis or description of piano concerto is mentioned.

Thanks...

Cheers!!!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> Dear Mirror Image,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the list. I will listen to these great musical works. Thanks...


You're quite welcome. Please be sure to hear these works performed by these pianists. These pianists, in my honest opinion, represent some of the best to ever play.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> Dear Mirror Image,
> 
> One more help!!!
> 
> ...


Hmm...let me get back to you on that one. I don't know any of the top of my head.


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Dear Mirror Image,

i will wait for that ...
And Thank you for the 5 list you gave....

Cheers!!!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> Dear Mirror Image,
> 
> i will wait for that ...
> And Thank you for the 5 list you gave....
> ...


No problem, sree. I think you will find much enjoyment in those pieces.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mozart did the greatest series of piano concertos.

Among my favourites: 8, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21, 23, 25, 27.

21 and 23 are probably among the most universally liked.

Also from that first list Tchaikovsky's 1st was missed out, and arguably Beethoven's 4th is better than the 5th, his 3rd is good too. Also Schumann's concerto.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Piano Concerto by Aram Khachaturian. Also, check out the one by Fumio Hayasaka on Naxos. These are two of my absolute favorites in the genre, and either would be easy to find. Also check out the one by another composer I adore, Wojciech Kilar. Also on Naxos, there is a great recording of it.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

starry said:


> Mozart did the greatest series of piano concertos.


Of course, this is a matter of opinion, not fact.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> Piano Concerto by Aram Khachaturian. Also, check out the one by Fumio Hayasaka on Naxos. These are two of my absolute favorites in the genre, and either would be easy to find. Also check out the one by another composer I adore, Wojciech Kilar. Also on Naxos, there is a great recording of it.


But are they 'great masters'? Not that I'm saying the pieces might not be good of course.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> Of course, this is a matter of opinion, not fact.


Who was better then?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

starry said:


> Who was better then?


I don't think it's a matter of who is "better", Starry, but I think you're simply stating your opinion as if it were a fact.

Anyway, Mozart wrote some lovely piano concertos, but they do not receive my top recommendations.

I already assembled a list in my initial post, so just refer to that list.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> I don't think it's a matter of who is "better", Starry, but I think you're simply stating your opinion as if it were a fact.
> 
> Anyway, Mozart wrote some lovely piano concertos, but they do not receive my top recommendations.
> 
> I already assembled a list in my initial post, so just refer to that list.


Yeh I know, you don't have to put him among your very favourite piano concertos if you wish. I'm just saying as a series of works I don't know who I could compare him to. Of course other composers did very good concertos, some people may argue some were better than Mozart. But did they do as many good ones as him?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

starry said:


> Yeh I know, you don't have to put him among your very favourite piano concertos if you wish. I'm just saying as a series of works I don't know who I could compare him to.


Oh, well comparing composers, for me, is like trying to compare apples and oranges. Let's take, for example, Debussy and Ravel. These two composers seem to be paired with each other by default, but the reality of the matter is both composers were very different from each other. Debussy was a revolutionary. His music dealt with a freer form of expression. Ravel, on the other hand, was very much a classicist. He admired Debussy's innovations, no question about it, but Ravel set forth on a very different path. His music was a culmination of many things: Spanish music, jazz, Baroque, Impressionism, and Classical. He forged these influences into a very original style that is his own.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Mirror Image said:


> Oh, well comparing composers, for me, is like trying to compare apples and oranges. Let's take, for example, Debussy and Ravel. These two composers seem to be paired with each other by default, but the reality of the matter is both composers were very different from each other. Debussy was a revolutionary. His music dealt with a freer form of expression. Ravel, on the other hand, was very much a classicist. He admired Debussy's innovations, no question about it, but Ravel set forth on a very different path. His music was a culmination of many things: Spanish music, jazz, Baroque, Impressionism, and Classical. He forged these influences into a very original style that is his own.


Good post, very true.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> Oh, well comparing composers, for me, is like trying to compare apples and oranges. Let's take, for example, Debussy and Ravel. These two composers seem to be paired with each other by default, but the reality of the matter is both composers were very different from each other. Debussy was a revolutionary. His music dealt with a freer form of expression. Ravel, on the other hand, was very much a classicist. He admired Debussy's innovations, no question about it, but Ravel set forth on a very different path. His music was a culmination of many things: Spanish music, jazz, Baroque, Impressionism, and Classical. He forged these influences into a very original style that is his own.


I'm not comparing styles. I'm not worried whether someone is considered revolutionary or not. I'm talking about the body of quality work in a particular field by a composer. For example.....unless you consider each Beethoven piano concerto to be worth about 4 of Mozart's piano concertos I don't see how he could be considered to have produced as much good work in that particular genre.

I haven't heard enough Debussy and Ravel recently to make a comparison between them. Of course they both did some good music.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

I would find it difficult to exclude Mozart from a list of Piano Concertos that might be of interest to someone new to this genre. My suggested shorlist list of PC’s, which gives some variety of style and a broad taste of the best on offer from a variety of top composers, would be:

1.	Mozart PC No 20 (Ashkenazy)
2.	Beethoven PC No 5 (Gilels)
3.	Tchaikovsky PC No 1 (Gilels)
4.	Schumann PC in A minor (Richter)
5.	Rachmaninov PC No 2 (Van Cliburn)
6.	Grieg PC in A minor (Andsnes)
7.	Liszt PC No 1 (Richter)
8.	Brahms PC No 2 (Richter)
9.	Prokofiev PC No 3 (Argerich)
10.	Chopin PC No 2 (Rubinstein)


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

starry said:


> But are they 'great masters'? Not that I'm saying the pieces might not be good of course.


In my estimation, yes, these composers were "masters" in the sense that they wrote extraordinary music. Only a master can rise above the mediocre and average.

It's called expanding your horizons, my friend. If you only want to limit yourself to music by composers that are considered "great masters" by the Penguin Guide, you'll run out of new music to hear very soon.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Not really a concerto but I think its worth mentioning.

Gottschalks Tarantelle has some excellent piano stuff with the orchestra as well.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> In my estimation, yes, these composers were "masters" in the sense that they wrote extraordinary music. Only a master can rise above the mediocre and average.
> 
> It's called expanding your horizons, my friend. If you only want to limit yourself to music by composers that are considered "great masters" by the Penguin Guide, you'll run out of new music to hear very soon.


I've been listening to classical music since 1985, and I've heard quite a few lesser known composers (including many of the British and Scandinavian ones mentioned around here). I'm not saying those you mentioned might not be masters of their craft of some kind. The OP talked about great masters suggesting he was interested in the pieces considered classics of the piano concerto repertoire as someone who is new to classical music probably would be.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

starry said:


> I'm not comparing styles. I'm not worried whether someone is considered revolutionary or not. I'm talking about the body of quality work in a particular field by a composer. For example.....unless you consider each Beethoven piano concerto to be worth about 4 of Mozart's piano concertos I don't see how he could be considered to have produced as much good work in that particular genre.
> 
> I haven't heard enough Debussy and Ravel recently to make a comparison between them. Of course they both did some good music.


Did you or did you not ask me who is better, Starry? I'm only answering your question.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> Good post, very true.


Thank you, Bach.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

For a good web site that has brief annotations of most classical works, I use Allmusic.com. It is at least as comprehensive as CD booklet notes, sometimes more so.

So using Mirror Image's excellent list:

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No. 2 - performed by Sviatoslav Richter
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:157996~T1

Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major - performed by Martha Argerich
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:46813~T1

Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2 - performed by Emil Gilels
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:172151~T1

Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No. 4 (for the left-hand) - performed by Vladimir Ashkenazy
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:69641~T1

Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 - performed by Murray Perahia
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=42:7617~T1

Lately for listening I have longed for more in depth annotations than these, but Allmusic is the most comprehensive I have found that covers even obscure works and composer biographies as well.

Enjoy.


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Nice web site with descriptions!!!


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Some more lesser known composers with great piano concertos:

Sauer, Scharwenka, Napravnik, Arensky, Bortkiewicz, Hahn, Massenet, Fuchs, Kiel, Huss, Schelling, Holbrooke, Wood, Mackenzie, Tovey, Stojowski, Alkan, Henselt, Dreyschok, Kullak, Tcherepnin.

There are some great series of recording of these piano concertos


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## UniverseInfinite (May 16, 2009)

Beethoven's "Emperor Concerto" is more melodious than his P.C. No. 4.


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

UniverseInfinite said:


> Beethoven's "Emperor Concerto" is more melodious than his P.C. No. 4.


I found this one in you tube ...






It is excellent

Cheers!!!


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

sree said:


> I found this one in you tube ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll have to say negative on this one. I'm not that impressed with pianists who try to do two things at once and what I mean is conducting and playing piano. I think the pianist looses the kind of focus and attention required in a piece as grand as this one.

That said, I urge you to seek Murray Perahia's performance of this Beethoven's "Piano Concerto No. 5," with Bernard Haitink conducting the Royal Concertgebouw. That, in my opinion, is one of the great performances of our time.


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## sree (May 31, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> I'll have to say negative on this one. I'm not that impressed with pianists who try to do two things at once and what I mean is conducting and playing piano. I think the pianist looses the kind of focus and attention required in a piece as grand as this one.


This is true... You are correct.

Cheers!!!


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

UniverseInfinite said:


> Beethoven's "Emperor Concerto" is more melodious than his P.C. No. 4.


Maybe your right on that, the first concerto I remember being quite melodic too. The 2nd however I have always found disappointing.


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