# punctus contra punctum



## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

......punctus contra punctum (note against note) or contrapuntal music, music that uses counterpoint.

Counterpoint is really a technique applied to a round, a canon, ricercar, or a fugue. I was not going to get into the specifics of fugues or canons as there are so many.

Canon (Free Canon, Canon by Inversion, Retrograde Canon, Canon by Augmentation)
Fugue (Double, Triple, or Quadruple Fugues)

An example might be....
Bach - The Well-Tempered Clavier
Beethoven - Hammerklavier

While they were first observed in the 13th century some 200 years later we have works by Josquin des Pres, Heinrich Isaac, and Jacob Obrecht. 

There has even been sort of a rebirth in 20th century music with such composers as Hindemith, Barber, Dallapiccola.

While some may say that this is just a cerebral exercise, it really is far more and knowing the essentials of a fugue's structure will enrich your experience of it immensely.

Do you have and favorite punctus contra punctum?


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Not the best fugue ever written, but I just love the fugue in the last movement of Beethoven's ninth symphony.

Likewise for the one in the last movement of Mozart's 41st symphony. 

And of course the 'Grosse fuge'!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

To say that a fugue is just an intellectual exercise is like saying a sonnet is just a fancy crossword puzzle. 

Though I love the massive fugues mentioned above (especially the Beethoven's 9th) and all the complicated fugues in The Art of Fugue, BWV 1080 and The Musical Offering, BWV 1079, my favorites may be the simpler ones in the WTC. My favorite of that lot is probably the fun little fugue No. 2 in C minor from Book 1. I love its sprinting bass voice that seems to descend forever without ever getting much lower and then gets to bring in the final entry of the subject. Who else could have made a fugue in a minor key sound like a playful joke?


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Very interesting point....*

To say that a fugue is just an intellectual exercise is like saying a sonnet is just a fancy crossword puzzle.

I like that - cute.

I'll have to listen to some of your suggestions - very good indeed.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I especially love the passacaglia and fugue in C minor by Bach. The Passacaglia is interesting because he applies a wide range of contrapunctual techniques above the ostinato.


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

I've been listening to Bach these days, more than I normally do. I'm in the mood for fugues I guess. 

Anyway, I'm looking for really complicated fugues, any ideas? Not only by Bach, a very complicated by any composer is fine!

Btw, the 10 voice fugue at the end of Verdi's Falstaff is magnificent!


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

The Grosse Fuge by Beethoven..?


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Bach said:


> The Grosse Fuge by Beethoven..?


I already mentioned that one in this thread. I'd like something new. I'm very interested in hearing more modern fugues, any examples of those?


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## Kuntster (Jun 8, 2009)

I really like HIndemith. I think there's a fugue in one of his piano sonatas if I remember correctly.


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

Kuntster said:


> I really like HIndemith. I think there's a fugue in one of his piano sonatas if I remember correctly.


I like Hindemith also, but haven't heard that fugue yet. I'll be checking that out, thanks!

Is it possible to write a fugue in serialism? If so, any examples of that?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

The Fugue in the last movement of Liszts Faust Symphony, and the short fugue in Mahlers 8th as well as the fugue in Hovhaness Mysterious Mountain


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