# Taking a Break



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm not going to go into too much detail as I don't think it's necessary, but I do want to point out that I'm going to try to take a break from TC. In short, I've been spending more time than I'd like on here, and I've been finding the place less enjoyable.

I know full well that, tomorrow morning, I will open TC because I can't help myself. But I can stop myself from responding to most of the threads. I might make the odd appearance in the more personal topics that I'm already involved in, but, sadly, no more music threads for me.

tl;dr I'm not dead, just away.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

What?
I'm not aware of anything untoward going on - at least not in the areas I visit.
If this place is getting less pleasant for any reason, talk to the mods.
Well, if it's just a personal thing, enjoy the break and be back soon, you're needed here.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> Well, if it's just a personal thing, enjoy the break and be back soon, you're needed here.


Don't worry, I'll keep my word on the opera convention.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

I hope your break does you well; see ya later... vampigator?


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

Do what you need to, but do keep us posted on how you're doing.

I've recently veered away from the somewhat depressing topics myself.

All the best!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

That's a good idea on which I will follow by example. Nothing personal either, but similarly, I am heavily addicted and need to not post.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I'm not going to go into too much detail as I don't think it's necessary, but I do want to point out that I'm going to try to take a break from TC. In short, I've been spending more time than I'd like on here, and I've been finding the place less enjoyable.
> 
> I know full well that, tomorrow morning, I will open TC because I can't help myself. But I can stop myself from responding to most of the threads. I might make the odd appearance in the more personal topics that I'm already involved in, but, sadly, no more music threads for me.
> 
> tl;dr I'm not dead, just away.


will you still be replying to PMs?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> What?
> I'm not aware of anything untoward going on - at least not in the areas I visit.


I hazard a guess that the "untoward" things are like what happened to me recently & made me almost leave, and also happened two years ago with an objectionable member then.

The thing I have seen is snide "jokes" about Brahms directed at Polednice which is yet another tired "joke" or more likely cliche that's gone on around here. The other one was Black Sabbath "jokes" and idiotic comparison of that band with things like Beethoven. Now where's the young British lad Argus? He's gone, probably because he was sick of those "jokes."

The issue that I ABSOLUTELY HATE on these forums is having things thrown back in your face. I honestly speak here, say what my opinion is directly. Eg. I listen to a wide variety of things but usually not opera. So then I get that thrown back in my face by some primitive ape who has nothing else to throw back on me. How idiotic.

Even if he was "pretentious" (which he really wasn't), at least John Cage didn't do this, say to people they're idiots for not listening to certain Germanic extravaganzas on steroids. Or masses in B minor. Like people I know, he just said what he thought, it was a dialogue. Not a diatribe like a small minority seem to enjoy doing, dissing certain people's tastes, either directly or indirectly.

Ok rant over (for now :lol: ).



> ...If this place is getting less pleasant for any reason, talk to the mods.


Yes, I agree, better to discuss things with the mods if you have a major problem. Take things offline. But some things like what I said above have to be put in the open, imo...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Ah, Good Grief. Poley is an Oxford student, hopefully studifying. How much TC dilly-dallying can he do? Good move, guy.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I give this 4, maybe 5 days before he simply needs some more Couchie.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Good luck with your studies & with your assignations with those potential victims. :kiss:


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I'm not going to go into too much detail as I don't think it's necessary, but I do want to point out that I'm going to try to take a break from TC. In short, I've been spending more time than I'd like on here, and I've been finding the place less enjoyable.
> 
> I know full well that, tomorrow morning, I will open TC because I can't help myself. But I can stop myself from responding to most of the threads. I might make the odd appearance in the more personal topics that I'm already involved in, but, sadly, no more music threads for me.
> 
> tl;dr I'm not dead, just away.


Yes, take a break by all means. Open those big lovely Piggy eyes, go out and smell the roses in beautiful Oxford. We'll all be here, still. The real world is not what you are reading right now here at TC, it's outside of your nearby window.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Now where's the young British lad Argus? He's gone, probably because he was sick of those "jokes."


My friend, you might like to be gently reminded that member Argus also loved to joke about "Mozart's music = rubbish", "Opera = rubbish", etc. etc. etc. Didn't bother me the slightest (I'm still here). But just to put things into correct historical account, I thought I shall mention Argus' jokes, too.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

violadude said:


> will you still be replying to PMs?


I will indeed. I still like the community here; I'm certainly not turning my back on it. I just don't want to be in the middle of it all for a while.


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## Yoshi (Jul 15, 2009)

Aww you'll be missed vampire piggy. Have a nice break.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I thought I'd edit that rant above but I won't, I'll let it stand. Two people have "liked" it. I supposed I've harped on about this for too long. But it has to be said. As I've said before here, amongst friends/acquaintances, etc. I am in the minority regarding J.S. Bach. Many of them, former musicians, love his music in all ways. But they never throw back in my face things to the effect that I'm an idiot for liking other composers above him. The other thing is that I've started to delve into Bach's chamber music lately and found it rewarding. No thanks to those bullies on these forums over the years (here lately, and on another one I've left) pushing the _Mass in B Minor _in my face. Why is it that work that they always latch onto. Can't one like other things by J.S. Bach? Does it have to be the thing on steroids? Anyway, I've made my point. If I do become a Bach convert, or of any composer I change my mind on for that matter, it won't be thanks to those people who've pushed them in my face over the years on these forums, it will be based MAINLY ON MY OWN INITIATIVE, & if I want advice, I'll ask for it...


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

Polednice said:


> I'm not going to go into too much detail as I don't think it's necessary, but I do want to point out that I'm going to try to take a break from TC. In short, I've been spending more time than I'd like on here, and I've been finding the place less enjoyable.
> 
> I know full well that, tomorrow morning, I will open TC because I can't help myself. But I can stop myself from responding to most of the threads. I might make the odd appearance in the more personal topics that I'm already involved in, but, sadly, no more music threads for me.
> 
> tl;dr I'm not dead, just away.


Forums can be addictive and at times it's good to step back once in a while.
I know I can sit at the computer for far too long and not get other things done.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

The Brahms stuff was all in good fun, it seemed to me he was fully aware of that. The Argus/Black Sabbath stuff was more played out/less funny because he never particularly championed them, there's just a vocal minority who literally thinks anything with guitar isn't real music.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Just so that people don't get entirely the wrong idea, I will say that Sid James's 'rant' demonstrates a part of why it can be unpleasant on here sometimes, but it's not the whole reason for me wanting to stand back for a while. One of the things that I've been starting to dislike is that, as innocuous as it can be to discuss things on the internet, some people post things in a harsh or dismissive tone that I don't believe they would use in real life.

I don't think it's intentionally cruel or inconsiderate, it's just one of those things that happens because of the blurred social boundaries created by the internet. I will admit that I've been guilty of this as well. I've reacted to certain threads in a way that I shouldn't have by berating them when I should have just stayed away. It would be nice if everyone only visited threads that enthuse them, but so often we like to voice our opinions on _everything_, don't we? It just so happens that I've sat at my computer dismayed at the way people have reacted to my attempts at genuine, honest discussion a few times too many - they've only been behaving in exactly the same way that I have at times, so I don't blame anyone for it, it just gets a little too much.

This is mainly why, having made friends on here, I am going to be more likely to stick around for personal or off-topic discussion than get involved in conversations about music. For all sorts of reasons, they're just too hostile.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I suspect it was the list-thread thing that got to Polednice. If so, all I can say is we all have days when we go a little out of character and get called on it. Ultimately, it all evens out. No big deal.

As for stepping away for a while...probably a good idea....but, hard to do for long. I use TC as a welcome break from daily drudgery, but it does have a way of getting a bit out of hand. If you're a list-maker, you might want to do what I do - make a list of recurring tasks and put "check TC" as one of them. Then don't spend any more time there than you do on any of the other tasks. 

Edit: Whoops! Simultaneous posting again. So sorry.


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

Polednice said:


> One of the things that I've been starting to dislike is that, as innocuous as it can be to discuss things on the internet, some people post things in a harsh or dismissive tone that I don't believe they would use in real life.
> 
> I don't think it's intentionally cruel or inconsiderate, it's just one of those things that happens because of the blurred social boundaries created by the internet.


I completely understand this point. Too bad there's not a way to have members use their actual names and photos. It seems to me that it's much easier to be rude and post thoughtlessly when you're hiding behind the anonymity of an alias.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

lou said:


> I completely understand this point. Too bad there's not a way to have members use their actual names and photos. It seems to me that it's much easier to be rude and post thoughtlessly when you're hiding behind the anonymity of an alias.


You're probably right about that, but some of us "hide" behind an alias, not because we want to be free to attack, but because we just simply don't trust the Internet to protect our privacy.

But, we can still avoid being rude if we are mature enough. The hardest part is not responding in kind when attacked by someone else.

Personally, I count to ten and think of Elgarian. He's my hero when it comes to staying civil. Wish I could do half as well.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

This thread saddens me a little. First, because I don't want to read posts by nice, funny, and interesting TC member Polednice any less often, but I must respect his need for a break. This part I can understand, and I believe everybody else feels the same way.

About the other issues being discussed here, however, I do think that there are some remedies. Let's think of the following:

1) Anonimity does blurr social boundaries and Internet rudeness is a well known phenomenon that hits even otherwise very nice people who wouldn't behave like this in real life. Maybe we should all understand this fact and be willing to discount some of the behavior and still appreciate the occasional rude TC member for his/her good sides, since nobody is perfect.

2) Classical music fans are a special bunch. They tend to be highly educated and knowledgeable people, who don't usually see their opinions harshly challenged in real life. This may lead to a "thinner skin" here when they'll feel highly annoyed at someone who puts down their opinions. Again, maybe it would be good to cultivate a slightly thicker skin.

3) This is the damn Internets, folks! As such, we need to recognize that this place is still much better than most, and that members who engage in rude behavior are definitely a minority.

4) As every place in life, virtual or real, this place is not ideal and goes through ups and downs. It's a good skill to have when people can take the bad with the good. To use the example of the original poster if he doesn't mind it, I'd say that Polednice, while turned off by some harsh or dismissive tone he has encountered in certain threads, has also been showered with love and consideration when he bravely shared with the community some tough moments he was going through.

5) We do have Terms of Service, and sometimes they aren't very popular with the members, and action based on them draws criticism (nobody can please everybody). However, some behaviors that are ultimately rude do not necessarily violate the Terms of Service therefore can't be entirely eliminated. While a mod will act against blatant violations such as directly calling another member ignorant or stupid, etc. (especially when the offensive content is reported, because the mods don't have the ability to read all posts, thanks to the sheer number of posts and the limited number of online hours the mods can use outside of their real life activities), a mod can't act because someone says that Mozart or Brahms or Black Sabbath or Opera or John Cage are rubbish. Persistent bullying or trolling *are* against the TOS, but the occasional extreme opinion of a member who is otherwise in good standing can not be acted upon (remember, members have a right to their opinion even when it is extreme). That's when the thicker skin becomes instrumental. Ultimately, if someone's opinion disturbs a lot a member, the latter can use the Ignore function.

6) People should remember that in arts in general there are so many styles, genres, and eras, that it will be practically impossible for the human brain to like everything. I'd even say that a person who likes virtually *everything* is probably someone who is sort of bland and devoid of unique personality traits that make people interesting. So, in a forum like this one that gathers a bunch of passionate and opinionated people, bumping into somone who abhors what you love is a given: it comes with the territory. Still, for example, if someone says that in his/her opinion opera is rubbish, an opera lover shouldn't feel *personally* offended, but should just recognize that opera isn't for everybody. With a caveat: if someone *systematically* clicks on threads that are being published with the goal of praising a composer or genre, etc. and sharing the enjoyment of his/her music, etc., *only* to gratuitously put down everybody's tastes **with the goal of getting a kick out of people's reactions*,* this is not just a matter of taste or a matter of right to one's opinion; this is a matter of trolling, and should be reported to moderators.

7) Finally, even good people (online or not) are entitled to having bad days. While some remarkably mature TC members like Elgarian, sospiro, mamascarlatti, jhar26, rgz, etc, etc (this is a non-inclusive list, of course) will practically NEVER lose their cool, not *all* human beings are this well equipped with a serene and convivial nature. To use myself as an example now, I'm known for losing my cool in ways that later I deeply regret (and I'm aware that as a mod, I shouldn't, because then I'll be setting a bad example). Most of the time, I humbly believe, I'm OK with other people - but definitely not always, and I humbly ask those I have offended to forgive me and understand that like most human beings, I have my bad hair days. Being able to understand our fellow TC members when they are snappy, and being able to not take things too personally, may be good ways to enjoy this community a little more.

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This said, if people feel that there are bullies and trolls among us, do talk to the moderators, with concrete examples, links to offending posts, etc., and when warranted, action will be taken.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Auf Wiedersehen, meine Freund! You will be missed.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> 4) As every place in life, virtual or real, this place is not ideal and goes through ups and downs. It's a good skill to have when people can take the bad with the good. To use the example of the original poster if he doesn't mind it, I'd say that Polednice, while turned off by some harsh or dismissive tone he has encountered in certain threads, has also been showered with love and consideration when he bravely shared with the community some tough moments he was going through.


That is absolutely true, and is precisely why, no matter how frustrating I may find discussions here at times, I will never go the route of freedom-via-banning because I truly value the friends I've made on here. Everyone can still feel free to throw me a PM any time!


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

It's like a mini-family that is not so 'mini'...what a wonderful place we've all found and created together; I, still relatively new here, consider myself fortunate to have 'met' so many of you...if even on a "i like that person's posts" basis and we've never even spoken. Sure, we're slightly dysfunctional as any good family is...for the most part, however, I feel we understand one another. I like to take the time whenever possible to apologize for the times I have been a bungholio and do so now; I think for the most part ya'll have come to know what to expect from me and that I don't outwardly seek tension or trouble. I'm glad I got most of those bad feelings out on youtube before coming here.

Plus, this place has made me grow as a fan and person because I was still very sensitive and prone to 'fight' about my favorites when I first joined. Now, I actually find it refreshing when people bash my only musical idols. It's what makes us all different and that variety is what makes this such a cool place. Still, I hope one day I can develop the skin necessary to be a poster that never makes someone feel uneasy or offended.

*Poles, have some nice time off! I know you won't be far. *


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> [... figured I ought to quote _something_]
> This said, if people feel that there are bullies and trolls among us, do talk to the moderators, with concrete examples, links to offending posts, etc., and when warranted, action will be taken.


The mods/admins of TC are intelligently moderate in their actions; I am impressed with the lot of you. So impressed in fact, that if I am presented with an official hand-slap here I will take it as evidence that the old mental engine is leaking oil and gone out of time. Time to kick back in the recliner and listen to music, instead of trying to talk sense to strangers.

In the meantime, I wouldn't be worrying much about _Polednice_; he's a toughguy.

:tiphat:


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

We shall miss you Poley. Hope all goes well for you in your absence. We all need a break from routine on occasion, but we all also should remember to always respect the opinions of others. No one can like everything.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Polednice said:


> I'm not going to go into too much detail as I don't think it's necessary, but I do want to point out that I'm going to try to take a break from TC. In short, I've been spending more time than I'd like on here, and I've been finding the place less enjoyable.


I've done this myself from time to time (not only here, but elsewhere), and it's always been beneficial. The internet is fantastic in the way it brings people together, but in doing so it's also potentially explosive. And the psychology of it can be dodgy.

The basic idea of 'fasting' - of taking a break from anything that has started to assume undue importance - has always been a sound one, it seems to me. And there's no finer antidote to internet-blues than a bit of extra exposure to the real world: real sunshine, real rain, real books, real walks. It's all a matter of balance I suppose.

A few days down the line, you'll find you just stop thinking about the stuff that's got under your skin, and it'll do you a power of good. Anyway, good luck to you, and I hope you find yourself gainfully employed here again sooner rather than later. We'll try not to say anything very interesting while you're gone. Then you won't feel you're missing anything.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't know what we minions will do without an overlord, but heal yourself and enjoy life. It's been an honor for a middle aged geek from Tennessee to joke around with an Oxford student. And if you come back right away, there will be no face lost. You'll be welcomed back tomorrow or next year.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> We'll try not to say anything very interesting while you're gone. Then you won't feel you're missing anything.


You'll have to stop posting, Alan, because everything you say is interesting.:tiphat:

@Hilltroll72, who said: "instead of trying to talk sense to strangers."

I'd say, are we really strangers?

Look, I have plenty of friends in real life, and a very busy social, family, and professional life.

Still, I feel like some of you here are just as valuable as some of the friends I meet in person.

Yes, Internet anonymity brings about rudeness, sometimes.

But Internet anonymity also does away with many barriers to human-to-human communication.

Age, gender, social class, skin color (not a factor for me but sadly a factor for some), looks (a very dominant factor....)

Over here we're just intellects. We're just brains who appreciate classical music.

Do you see the possibilities?

Where else a 78-year-old crippled gentleman can interact with a 12-year-old apprentice of violin girl in mutually respectful terms because of their shared love for a violin concert?

In "real" life, the 78-year-old gentleman would be condescending and dismissive of the 12-year-old girl and would treat her with baby talk, while she'd be creeped out by the smelly old man.

Over here, all that matters is their intellect, their ability to be sensitive to gorgeous music, and their shared passion for it.

I consider myself privileged for having the pleasure of interacting with outstanding human beings here, in closer ways than it would be ever possible outside of cyberspace.

These folks are not strangers. They're cherished friends. They have more to tell me and they understand me better than many of my real life friends.

Social behavior always lags behind technology and societal advancements. People tend to think that those who cultivate online friendships don't have a life, and believe - out of outdated concepts - that online pen-pals are not "real" friends.

I say that Alan, Annie, Natalie, Gaston and many others (including the OP Polednice and again a non-inclusive list) are valued friends of mine, as much at the ones I meet in person. They're not strangers. No way. I know a lot more about them and admire them a lot more than strangers.

They are fine examples of how a human brain can produce interesting thoughts, sensibilities, and interactions.

And this includes you too, Hilltroll72. You're certainly one of the most intelligent, original, and sharp thinker's I've met. I don't feel you're a stranger. I hope you don't feel that I'm a stranger.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Polednice said:


> ...One of the things that I've been starting to dislike is that, as innocuous as it can be to discuss things on the internet, some people post things in a harsh or dismissive tone that I don't believe they would use in real life...


That's what I was saying regarding the difference between fans of various composers online & in real life. Most if not all of my acquaintances into the classical music like J.S. Bach far more than I do, or at least have in the past (I'm beginning to listen to more of his music now, his chamber music). Although they know I'm not a huge fan of J.S. they don't ram it down my throat, they're okay with it. But it seems that if you don't like two composers in particular on these online forums - one is J.S., the other is a certain composer of very long Germanic operas - then you are automatically branded as a kind of lightweight, or something like that. Well that's just bullsh*t imo. I was talking about this a while back with someone and she said that it's wrong because the classical composers are something like flowers, they're all beautiful in many ways. We all like gardens, with their different flowers, she said classical music is a bit like that, there's a lot of variety for everybody to enjoy. No one flower is "better" or more worthy of liking than another. Is this such a difficult analogy to grasp online? Or is it not worded in philosophising language or arty-farty enough?...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> [...]
> And this includes you too, Hilltroll72. You're certainly one of the most intelligent, original, and sharp thinker's I've met. I don't feel you're a stranger. I hope you don't feel that I'm a stranger.


I consider you a respected and appreciated acquaintance, _Alma_, along with several other TC members (obviously including Poley). In fact, I_ respect_ a couple inhabitants of my 'ignore list'; annoying buggers, but... .

The friend appellation may mean more to a Vermont hillbilly than to the average citizen. Probably a holdover from the old Scottish 'kith' and kin concept. Obligations to kin are built in; we have the same obligations to kith (read friends), but they are voluntary here. Over the centuries, 'kith' has evolved from 'friends of the family' to a personal thing - mostly. It's a 'having the back' thing, pertaining to approximately everything.

Wow. That's way more 'explaining' than you will usually get from a hillbilly; must be I care, eh?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Sid James said:


> [...]
> Is this such a difficult analogy to grasp online? Or is it not worded in philosophising language or arty-farty enough?...


_Sid_, near as I can tell from the posts, some of these guys are the sort of stiff-necks you think they are; others are doing what I regard as 'patter'. Particularly regarding Wagner, the 'Fers' and the 'Agins' have covered all the legitimate ground so long that grass won't grow on it. There is really nothing more to say, so patter is all that's left. Some of us, both 'Fers' and Agins', like to roll a ball across now and then, just to hold the grass down. We mean no harm.

So try to discount the patterers in those posts; those Fers obviously ain't real clever, and they think you are just another bowler.

:devil:


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sid James said:


> That's what I was saying regarding the difference between fans of various composers online & in real life. Most if not all of my acquaintances into the classical music like J.S. Bach far more than I do, or at least have in the past (I'm beginning to listen to more of his music now, his chamber music). Although they know I'm not a huge fan of J.S. they don't ram it down my throat, they're okay with it. But it seems that if you don't like two composers in particular on these online forums - one is J.S., the other is a certain composer of very long Germanic operas - then you are automatically branded as a kind of lightweight, or something like that. Well that's just bullsh*t imo. I was talking about this a while back with someone and she said that it's wrong because the classical composers are something like flowers, they're all beautiful in many ways. We all like gardens, with their different flowers, she said classical music is a bit like that, there's a lot of variety for everybody to enjoy. No one flower is "better" or more worthy of liking than another. Is this such a difficult analogy to grasp online? Or is it not worded in philosophising language or arty-farty enough?...


In you analogy, JS Bach is the earth the flowers sprout from, Wagner is the sky the flowers reach for, Beethoven is the water that nourishes them, Mozart is the sun that shines down upon them.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Couchie said:


> In you analogy, JS Bach is the earth the flowers sprout from, Wagner is the sky the flowers reach for, Beethoven is the water that nourishes them, Mozart is the sun that shines down upon them.


Sorry, but I have to ask it: Who is the manure that fertilizes them?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Sorry, but I have to ask it: Who is the manure that fertilizes them?


:lol: ... Don't honestly know how to answer that. But I think Janacek and Dvorak, our Czech friends, would be the gardeners, because they were very keen gardeners from what I can gather, and of course, their music is filled with the vibe of nature, love of it, etc...


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Couchie said:


> In you analogy, JS Bach is the earth the flowers sprout from, Wagner is the sky the flowers reach for, Beethoven is the water that nourishes them, Mozart is the sun that shines down upon them.


And Brahms is the pollinating bee.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Sorry, but I have to ask it: Who is the manure that fertilizes them?


Fertilizer is necessary to* maintain* the soil. This maintenance is provided by the publishers, presenters, performers and audiences who have by their attentions kept the music alive.

[The analogy is to top grade bovine manure base, of course, seasoned with that of sheep.]

(I haven't forgotten the earthworm's contribution, it's the analogy that doesn't come to me.)

:devil:


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