# Was Handel really the greatest composer?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Well, Beethoven thought so, and usually placed him ahead of Mozart and Bach. I think that would be an unusual view these days. But listening to Handel’s concerti grossi, the strength of his music is obvious: Originality everywhere, everything just so with neither a note too many or too few, and an abundance of inspiration. This isn’t even considering the huge volume of music in other genres he left us, including perennial popular favorites like the Water Music, Messiah, and Music for the Royal Fireworks.

How about you? What do you think, and how do you judge Beethoven’s assessment?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Was Handel really the greatest composer?*

I'm trying to get a handle on the answer to your question, but I've got my Bach against the wall, and it's not budging.


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## level82rat (Jun 20, 2019)

Maybe he liked Handel’s penmanship. Though I wouldn’t put much stock in a deaf man’s opinion of music.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't consider Handel the greatest composer, but he is in my top ten. Beethoven's assessment means nothing to me.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

No.

Charles Koechlin was the greatest.

I don't take orders from beetroot farms.


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

The pump don't work because the vandals took the Händel.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Limiting my favorite composers list to the time period, I get:

1. Beethoven
2. Bach
3. Mozart
4. Haydn
5. Handel
6. Monteverdi
7. Telemann
8. Vivaldi
9. CPE Bach
10. Corelli
11. Gesualdo
12. Cherubini
13. Lully
14. Purcell
15. Tallis
16. Boccherini
17. Michael Haydn
18. Buxtehude
19. Des Prez
20. Perotin

(Disclaimer-- listings get more and more uncertain as I go down)


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## NoCoPilot (Nov 9, 2020)

ORigel said:


> Limiting my favorite composers list to the time period,


Errr, which time period is that?

Purcell, 1659-1695
Beethoven, 1770-1827
Tallis, 1505-1585


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

ORigel said:


> Limiting my favorite composers list to the time period, I get:
> 
> 1. Beethoven
> 2. Bach
> ...


My top five is the same as yours! But the ranking is a little different, not that it matters - the top five are the greatest ever.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Well, Beethoven thought so, and usually placed him ahead of Mozart and Bach. I think that would be an unusual view these days. But listening to Handel's concerti grossi, the strength of his music is obvious: Originality everywhere, everything just so with neither a note too many or too few, and an abundance of inspiration. This isn't even considering the huge volume of music in other genres he left us, including perennial popular favorites like the Water Music, Messiah, and Music for the Royal Fireworks.
> 
> How about you? What do you think, and how do you judge Beethoven's assessment?


Handel was the first composer in history to see a monument/statue erected of himself while still alive, and also the first composer to have continuous annual performances of his music in public concerts since death to the present day. Like or not, posterity is seldom wrong. *This is objectively showing greatness by posterity.*


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I would disagree with Beethoven and claim that he himself is the greatest composer instead -- whatever greatest means. A personal favorite, let's say.

But it's next to impossible to compare such different genres as late baroque and late classic even though they were only a handful of decades apart. Other than to organize sounds they almost had completely different goals. In the context of the time, I suppose Handel's greatness is incomparable. He wrote what I consider the happiest piece I've ever heard in my life, the Organ Concerto in A major No.14,movement 5 finale..


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

^ Talk about a truly good melody! Delightful.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Since music didn't end with Beethoven, whom Beethoven thought was the greatest is somewhat irrelevant.

For me, Handel is the 2nd greatest Baroque composer and certainly on my top 20.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

What other people, including famous composers, think never affects my own preferences. So, no.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I think he could be along with a number of other candidates. My appreciation of Handel went up over time.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

NoCoPilot said:


> Errr, which time period is that?
> 
> Purcell, 1659-1695
> Beethoven, 1770-1827
> Tallis, 1505-1585


I worded it poorly: _limiting_ it to the composers known in Beethoven's time, my list is that.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

One of the greatest, certainly. I wouldn't put him top of the tree overall, but I do think he might have a claim to be the greatest tunesmith ever. "Messiah" alone would put him on the leader board for that one IMHO.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

ArtMusic said:


> My top five is the same as yours! But the ranking is a little different, not that it matters - the top five are the greatest ever.


This list leaves out Romantic and Modern composers, because it's not fair to list composers that Beethoven hadn't known of. My third favorite composer (between Bach and Mozart) is Brahms. Between Haydn and Handel, I have Schubert, Bruckner, Mahler, and _possibly_ Bartok. Certainly Handel is a greater composer than these, but I like them better.


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## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

With all due respect to Beethoven - I think, no. Handel is much more significant and interesting than most of his contemporaries, but it is not necessary to compare him with Bach. Bach is a genius, Handel is just a good composer.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

................................................


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## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

janxharris said:


> ................................................


In fact, this makes quite a significant sense. I also believe that the course of history (the test of time, if you will) is a fairly significant indicator in this matter. And it's not just about Handel.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

Had Beethoven been born later in the 19th century, like in the 80s or 90s, he would have called Wagner the greatest composer. Alas!


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## LesCyclopes (Sep 16, 2016)

My Top 3 are:

(1) J S Bach

(2) Rameau

(3) Handel

Handel is great but not as brilliant as Bach, I'm afraid.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Handel makes sense as a major influence on a composer who liked "big" music, certainly more so than someone like Bach would be.

According to this article by David Wyn Jones, Beethoven read a newspaper account of the funeral of Britain's King George III in 1820, at which the Dead March from _Saul_ was played:


> Reading these accounts of the centrality of Handel and his music to a national occasion prompted an idea for a new work, immediately noted in the conversation book while still seated in the café, a set of variations for full orchestra on the 'Dead March', variations that might lead to the entry of voices declaiming a suitably mournful text. Nothing came of this idea, but the blueprint is a familiar one. The idea of instrumental variations that lead to the climactic entry of voices had informed the Choral Fantasy and was to determine the nature of the finale of the Ninth Symphony. An die Freude ('Ode to Joy'), based on Friedrich Schiller's poem, is not often described as Handelian but its integration of soloists, chorus and orchestra together with its clarity of purpose do owe something to Handel and, indeed, may have been perceived as such in a city that was accustomed to rousing performances of his oratorios.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Handel was a truly great composer, maybe the most influential of the 18th century. Beethoven was more familiar with him. I don't think Beethoven or many others of his time knew very much about Bach's entire output.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

I really don't believe that Georg Friedrich was the greatest composer (Beethoven was admiring also Haydn...) but some of his operas are very good and are provoking a cloud of nostalgy to me. Especially the Alcina, which, many years ago, I attended in Goteborg Opera. Marvelous performance.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*Was Handel really the greatest composer?*

Not in my opinion, in fact, I don't consider him the greatest Baroque composer. For me his major contributions were in *opera* and *oratorio* - areas where Bach did not do much, no operas, and except for his Passions not nearly as much as Handel. However, I think Bach's _St. Matthew Passion_ is better than anything by Handel. (Of course, this is just my subjective opinion and there is no need to argue with me if you disagree.)

Handel is certainly a major composer - but "the greatest"? I find the entire premise of naming one composer as the greatest, silly.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I was in a music forum before I found this one whose creator not only believed Handel was greater than Bach but continually berated those who disagreed with him (in fact, I left because I got tired of his belligerence). So there are Handel worshippers out there.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> I was in a music forum before I found this one whose creator not only believed Handel was greater than Bach but continually berated those who disagreed with him (in fact, I left because I got tired of his belligerence). So there are Handel worshippers out there.


I think I know who you are referring to.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

It's not a competition. He wrote some great music. Some of it resonates with me, some of it doesn't. And there's much I haven't heard. I don't have the appetite for his large volume of baroque operas and oratorios, although I did listen to a few on YouTube.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

For me, Handel's best is found in his vocal and solo keyboard music; I'm not a big fan of his chamber or orchestral works.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> Handel was a truly great composer, maybe the most influential of the 18th century. Beethoven was more familiar with him. I don't think Beethoven or many others of his time knew very much about Bach's entire output.


I think we talked about this already. This basically summarizes Beethoven's admiration for Handel: "Go to him to learn how to achieve great effects, by such simple means."
Which works of Bach, unknown at the time, would have changed Beethoven's mind if they were known? 
Van swieten had copies of Bach's B minor mass, Musical offering, the Art of the fugue.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=sYAPAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA239
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_van_Swieten#Beethoven
https://www.talkclassical.com/66998-bachs-wtc-your-favourite-4.html#post1883609


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Beethoven went through a 'Handel phase' in the last years of his life and I think his 'greatest composer' comment was a reflection of that rather than anything else. The 1822 Consecration of the House Overture opening march is considered to be a tribute to (or influenced by) Handel.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> I think we talked about this already. This basically summarizes Beethoven's admiration for Handel: "Go to him to learn how to achieve great effects, by such simple means."
> Which works of Bach, unknown at the time, would have changed Beethoven's mind if they were known?
> Van swieten had copies of Bach's B minor mass, Musical offering, the Art of the fugue.
> ...


The cantatas, primarily. And late Bach was indeed an enormous influence on Beethoven. So why is it easy for you to attribute heavy Handel influence on Beethoven, but you get your feathers ruffled when I say Mozart was also heavily influenced by Handel? No, no, then it's clearly the Bach influence. :lol:


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> you get your feathers ruffled when I say Mozart was also heavily influenced by Handel?


It is true Mozart was also influenced by Handel, but I also like to think that Mozart, who was trained in the so-called "older styles" from childhood, "understood" the true implications of Bach's work more than J. Haydn and Beethoven did.



hammeredklavier said:


> "In the second of his 1931 essays on 'National Music', *Schoenberg acknowledged Bach and Mozart as his principal teachers* and told his readers why." <PA124>
> Schoenberg: *"My teachers were primarily Bach and Mozart*, and secondarily Beethoven, Brahms, and Wagner." <PA173>
> 
> 
> ...





hammeredklavier said:


> "The hypothesis that Mozart learned (presumably in 1782) from his study of the Art of Fugue how to combine a fugue subject with its own inversion ignores the composer's earlier experimentation with rectus and inversus combinations in the revision of the K. 173 finale and in the K. 401 keyboard fugue; there is, moreover, no firm evidence linking Mozart to The Art of Fugue. The only item left on this list, the "full exploitation of contrapuntal devices" in K. 426, is the one aspect of this work that is so atypical - for Mozart, his contemporaries and most of his predecessors - as to suggest the influence of J. S. Bach and no one else."
> <Engaging Bach: The Keyboard Legacy from Marpurg to Mendelssohn, By Matthew Dirst, Matthew Charles Dirst, Page 78>


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I still say the similarity here to what Mozart later wrote is too close to be coincidence:





In turn, there's something about that that reminds me of this, written about 20 years earlier:


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> I still say the similarity here to what Mozart later wrote is too close to be coincidence:


I think the 'D-C#-D-E-F' motif (found throughout in Mozart's requiem) is likely to have come from the work of the Salzburg post-baroque master, Johann Ernst Eberlin (1702~1762). We also talked about this before.









"The music collection of the Salzburg cathedral contains more sacred vocal music of the mid-18th century (ca. 1730-80) than any other period. An inventory of this large collection, recently undertaken by this writer at the request of Domkapellmeister Prof. Josef Messner, shows that Mozart's predecessors and colleagues in the archbishop's service are represented by an imposing amount of liturgical music. Among these musicians none seems to have been more industrious than *Johann Ernst Eberlin* (1702-62). There is evidence in the number of works preserved: a thematic catalog contains, so far, approximately 70 Masses, Mass fragments and Requiems, 160 motets and other smaller works, 37 litanies, 14 sequences and hymns, 35 settings of individual or grouped vesper psalms, and 3 Te Deum. This list does not include the large amount of sacred music in the vernacular. Aside from such first-hand evidence there is the well-known testimony of Eberlin's younger colleague, Leopold Mozart. In his report on the Salzburg musical establishment in 1757, the older Mozart singled out Eberlin for his industry and speed in composing, comparing him to Alessandro Scarlatti and Telemann. At the time of Leopold Mozart's writing Eberlin had risen, from the position of fourth organist in 1725, to the highest rank of Hof-und Domkapellmeister (1749) and had recently been granted the added honorary appointment of Titular-Truchsess.
Both Leopold and his son thought highly of Eberlin's ability; from their testimony and from other evidence it appears that Eberlin's reputation was primarily based on his contrapuntal works. Wolfgang Mozart's remarks are significant: while eventually he modified his high opinion of Eberlin's keyboard works (the only works to be published during the composer's lifetime) he continued to esteem his vocal writing."
<Johann Ernst Eberlin's Motets for Lent / Reinhard G. Pauly / Journal of the American Musicological Society (1962) 15 (2): 182-192.>


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> I still say the similarity here to what Mozart later wrote is too close to be coincidence:


btw, as we talked about earlier, Handel's influence on Mozart doesn't seem so direct or significant compared to Michael Haydn's; (although Michael also seems to derive from Mozart, such as in the case of the adagio movement of Michael's string quintet in F, MH367 and the benedictus from Mozart's spatzenmesse in C, K.220); there are literally dozens of these cases between Michael and Mozart.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> But listening to Handel's concerti grossi, the strength of his music is obvious: Originality everywhere, everything just so with neither a note too many or too few, and an abundance of inspiration.


I agree with your comments but there are two reasons why I'm unable to agree that Handel was the greatest composer. He excelled in every aspect and every major genre of music in his time. He built on his German training, early years in Italy, and abundance of opportunity in England when Britannia ruled the waves.

But his concerti grossi are conservative in comparison with what important Italian composers were writing, or with Bach's Brandenburg Concertos. He was kind of the Establishment composer of his era. And given that musicology has revealed the extent and nature of his musical borrowings, maybe I would say only that Handel was a great but very flawed composer.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

ORigel said:


> Limiting my favorite composers list to the time period, I get:
> 
> 1. Beethoven
> 2. Bach
> ...


I just wonder how someone comes up with a list like that.

...with what concepts do you start with? What's your approach?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Roger Knox said:


> And given that musicology has revealed the extent and nature of his musical borrowings, maybe I would say only that Handel was a great but very flawed composer.


When asked why he "borrowed" some of Bononcini's music Handel replied: "It was much too good for him, he did not know what to do with it." G.F. Handel


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This is beautiful.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> When asked why he "borrowed" some of Bononcini's music Handel replied: "It was much too good for him, he did not know what to do with it." G.F. Handel


Composers of that era, including Bach, were constantly borrowing and recycling.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

It's eerie to me how Baroque and Classical are the most similar periods to one another...

I don't know if Handel is great from a popular perspective, but he's without a doubt essential: It's clear (not why Classical composers revered him) but why he's part of the cannon today. Buxtehude is not part of the main cannon. Handel was for the people, in fact, Handel made Bach look pretentious on some representative level.


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## Stefa (Mar 27, 2021)

Manxfeeder said:


> I was in a music forum before I found this one whose creator not only believed Handel was greater than Bach but continually berated those who disagreed with him (in fact, I left because I got tired of his belligerence). So there are Handel worshippers out there.


May I take a link in this music forum, please?

And yes, Handel is great composer. Not the greatest, perhaps, but one of great. I love him much more than Bach (he is a great composer, of course) and a litle-bit more than Mozart. 
P.S. I'm sorry for my English: I'm not a native-speaker.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

He is possibly the greatest composer of Baroque vocal dramas. 

Only Bach matched him in oratorio and only Purcell, Peri, Monteverdi matched could compete with him in opera, but no one did both like Handel.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Yes, Yes, yes,


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Well if you ask famous composers like Beethoven and Mozart, you're relying on only preferences for those composers to give you a good opinion. It would be like asking Handel who the greatest composer was, and taking his word. And then asking that composer who the greatest was, and so on. A bit roundabout.

Instead, it seems purely up to the individual to decide if Handel (or more interestingly, which of his pieces or movements) sound good. Less 'in tradition,' more '_up to the individuals tradition.'_


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> Well if you ask famous composers like Beethoven and Mozart, you're relying on your preferences for those composers to give you a good opinion. It would be like asking Handel who the greatest composer was, and taking his word. And then asking that composer who the greatest was, and so on. A bit roundabout.
> 
> Instead, it seems purely up to the individual to decide if Handel (or more interestingly, which of his pieces or movements) sound good. Less 'in tradition,' more '_up to the individuals tradition.'_


I'll take Beethoven's and Mozart's opinion any day ....


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

ArtMusic said:


> I'll take Beethoven's and Mozart's opinion any day ....


I have no idea what that comment means. That you adopt the opinions of individuals who have knowledge of nearly 2% of history's characteristics and development at least within their studies? (and more from their own music.) If you really enjoy Handel, go with that. Don't give me da BS.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> I have no idea what that comment means. That you adopt the opinions of individuals who have knowledge of nearly 2% of history's characteristics and development at least within their studies? (and more from their own music.) If you really enjoy Handel, go with that. Don't give me da BS.


Stop being condescending, my post was simple. I would take Beethoven's and Mozart's opinion on musical matters.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I've absolutely nothing against others or myself, who either love or enjoy Handel. That's not anything that can be argued, nor a point of why I respond to jabs like yours. There's an underlying reason why lists like the following are more enlightening to entertain beyond some flippant sentiment of surface enjoyment:

One includes masters who have proven to consider all of history and have ever made self-sacrificing journeys at writing new music today. You think you can become a Brahms and write quality music day in and out without getting utterly bored of yourself? Try it. These composers have vigorously invested in studying and pushing the bounds of musical expression without faltering negativity of those who don't grasp the journey of completion, and it would take a heavy boulder to convince anyone these aren't the best opinions to look at today nevermind vague etchings of what some critics or past composed might have alluded to. Absolutely nothing a sensible man could complain about considering: 50 Greatest Composers by 174 Composers

And another list equally great to ponder from another angle, are the years and years of opinions from people who listen day in and day out and compare musical pieces. Although I'm sure this has a heavier bias toward Classical era albums (not like the above list doesn't have every single ancient great in the top) much of the ouevre of the greatest composers have been compared in this list, from a prolonged Classical audiophile's dissection, and arrived at a collection of intensively rich and diverse experience in music: Talk Classical's Most Recommended Composers

I don't expect sensible minds to appreciate Handel from a sincere and unbiased point of view, instead of a pretentious and aristocratic one; nor Buxtehude--as his music's simply bounds more eccentric than other open minds are willing to agree to. But what I have is absolutely nothing against one who can sincerely, without weakening their position to a narrowly uncultivated authority of one era's knowledge, say they love Handel's music, or Myaskovsky's or Ligeti's. More power to you. Maybe you'd want to prove it through actual music, so that people will start reading your comments with some faint interest.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> I don't expect sensible minds to appreciate Handel from a sincere and unbiased point of view, instead of a pretentious and aristocratic one; nor Buxtehude--as his music's simply bounds more eccentric than other open minds are willing to agree to. But what I have is absolutely nothing against one who can sincerely, without weakening their position to a narrowly uncultivated authority of one era's knowledge, say they love Handel's music, or Myaskovsky's or Ligeti's. More power to you. Maybe you'd want to prove it through actual music, so that people will start reading your comments with some faint interest.


We can learn much from Mozart and Beethoven about Baroque and Classical music. What's hard to understand about that? Your post seems to be perturbed by philosophy, rather than musical ones (as is often the case with many threads here at TC). Don't you read books by Leopold Mozart about Classical music like many scholars and performers do?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

ArtMusic said:


> We can learn much from Mozart and Beethoven about Baroque and Classical music. What's hard to understand about that? Your post seems to be perturbed by philosophy, rather than musical ones (as is often the case with many threads here at TC). Don't you read books by Leopold Mozart about Classical music like many scholars and performers do?


You're trapped in tunnel vision. The Baroque era is not that great compared to expenential discoveries then on. School and popular mindset hasn't prepared anyone to learn much deeper and extensive truth about art. This systematic fault is the reality we have to face, or give up caring about deeper pursuits. Just trying to help you.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> You're trapped in tunnel vision.


It is serving me well. However, you seem to be rather perturbed by that.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

ArtMusic said:


> It is serving me well. However, you seem to be rather perturbed by that.


Well is a greater man's hell.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> Well is a greater man's hell.


I don't know what that means (nor do I really care about this distraction).

Getting back to the great Mr. Handel, this oratorio is the version "modernized" by Mozart at the request of his patron Baron Gottfried van Swieten. He added second violin, woodwind, viola, and bassoon parts and re-wrote the oboe solos for clarinet. The clarity of Mozart's arrangement emphasized the dynamics and phrasing of the melodic line given the Classical aesthetics. One could learn about this musically by contrasting the original Handel version with Mozart's.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

ArtMusic said:


> I don't know what that means (nor do I really care about this distraction).


If you cannot see or read, I'll leave you an audio souvenir for your journey. Compare and contrast, when you get around to it.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> If you cannot see or read, I'll leave you an audio souvenir for your journey. Compare and contrast, when you get around to it.


Thank you for sharing but no thanks. This thread is not on Bartok.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Love Bartok's string quartets.
Love Handel's Concerti Grossi Op 6


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Handel wasn't the greatest composer; he merely wrote the greatest work -- Messiah ... the most performed and well known piece of classical music in history.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

DaveM said:


> Beethoven went through a 'Handel phase' in the last years of his life and I think his 'greatest composer' comment was a reflection of that rather than anything else. The 1822 Consecration of the House Overture opening march is considered to be a tribute to (or influenced by) Handel.


I wonder if this is true, if you struggle with some of Beethoven's attempts at counterpoint you might think that he'd look back at the complexity of what Handel did with awe. Handel's counterpoint never goes (aurally) awry, the fact that there is counterpoint never makes for an unpleasant sound.
That certainly is not the case with Beethoven and is not the case with Bach, who was criticized by contemporaries in their version of the battle of the primacy of words or music. Technically proficient writing that is not natural to the ear is how I understand it.

No matter how good the composer, looking at the score (deaf person or not) of a big Handel fugue like the Amen from Messiah would inspire awe. In anyone, in any century. Much less hearing it.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

DaveM said:


> Beethoven went through a 'Handel phase' in the last years of his life and I think his 'greatest composer' comment was a reflection of that rather than anything else. The 1822 Consecration of the House Overture opening march is considered to be a tribute to (or influenced by) Handel.


Not just in his late period. The halleluja chorus finale from the Christ on the mount of olives is also an homage to Handel. I think the 9th symphony also reflects his affinity toward Handel.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

larold said:


> Handel wasn't the greatest composer; he merely wrote the greatest work -- Messiah ... the most performed and well known piece of classical music in history.


Well, I could not have possibly put it better myself.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> My top five is the same as yours! But the ranking is a little different, not that it matters - the top five are the greatest ever.


Really...? I would need Chopin, Brahms and then Schoenberg/Stravinsky (atonalism and polychordalism are so important in this big picture) in the list for a helpful, logical package.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Luchesi said:


> Really...? I would need Chopin, Brahms and then Schoenberg/Stravinsky (atonalism and polychordalism are so important in this big picture) in the list for a helpful, logical package.


Yes, a complete package it up!


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