# music major



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

if you were to enter a music school a conservatory, what should the student expect as a piano music major?

What would be expected of him and how would his life be like ? 

What would happen in his classes?


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

If you're not outstanding, then your music degree is pretty much worthless and you'll have financial problems. (This is a problem for most visual and performing arts majors.) I don't know about the classes themselves.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Toddlertoddy said:


> If you're not outstanding, then your music degree is pretty much worthless and you'll have financial problems. (This is a problem for most visual and performing arts majors.) I don't know about the classes themselves.


I have to agree here and even if you are outstanding your degree could still be worthless. I have found that artistic types generally over assess their talent. I have yet to meet one that could realistically judge their own artistic worth. It doesn't help when parents reinforce their child's lack of talent through parental pride and artificial praise either, pushing them onward when it would have been kinder in the end to have been honest with them. But maybe you are one of the two percent who can make a go of it in the music world? I would just have a good secondary degree to fall back on because you're likely to need it.

Kevin


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

Kevin Pearson said:


> I would just have a good secondary degree to fall back on because you're likely to need it.


Get a double major in computer science and music and you'll do fine.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you started lessons between the age of four to six, continued studies from that time until now (including the summer months), practiced in earnest - far more than the basic required amounts - you may have a chance of having some kind of at least modest success.

All works for exams must be played from memory - no exceptions. A typical first semester freshman jury requires a Bach prelude and fugue from book one or two of the WTK or one or several movements from the French or English suites or the Partitas, a classical sonata (Haydn, early Beethoven, Mozart, etc.), a romantic era piece - often a Chopin Etude, a Brahms Ballade, etc. -- and a 20th century work (Bartok, Prokofiev, Messiaen, Takemitsu and more contemporary than that). That is a Minimum requirement. Each semester requires something similar, at several notches up in difficulty. Of course you will be working on additional solo repertoire at the same time, and other parts of ensemble pieces which you will also be doing. 

School concerto competitions are announced at the beginning of a semester, and if you wish to compete you must learn that along with the rest of your required exam pieces and other repertoire in the ensemble courses.

You will also be taking full-time classes: music history, ear-training (solfege) ensemble performance, accompanying, theory, orchestration, electronic music, etc. If you are in the States there is the addition of a nasty 60% required academic load for a bachelor's degree in 'general education,' i.e. non-music courses. Some conservatories concentrate only on the music - most in Europe do so.

So many play the piano both technically and musically very well that you really have to be 'advanced' both technically and with your musicianship if you want a prayer of being noticed.

If you do not have that early background, and a constant unbroken thread of quality training and practice, your chances of making some kind of go of it rapidly become that much less. I speak of a modest career, teaching, performing, accompanying, not a world class concert performer - there are many who so qualify and there are just not enough 'job slots' for them. That modest career still requires you can learn new material quickly, sight-read like a bat out of hell, play consistently well. (Whether you 'feel like it' or not is Very Much Part Of The Career - another current delusion seems to be that performing is all about 'personal mood' - ROFLMAO.)

I've seen more and more what is already here mentioned - less than excellent seems to currently 'pass' as really good, with all too often too much praise doled out for what is less than adequately done. It seems to be a current social climate to not critique anyone, even for the intent purpose of helping them improve and master something -- all for fear of 'hurting their feelings.' It is far more hurtful to delude someone as to their actual ability and readiness, and let them find out after four years and tens and tens of thousands of dollars that people were not telling them the truth....

There are true and apocryphal tales of those who 'started late' and 'went all the way.' Those individuals are something like less than one in a million.

So if you are truly truly truly 'prepared,' there should be no real problem. You will find out, if admitted, soon enough in that freshman year if you can keep up with the course load and requirements, and from that year you will have some experience to be better able to estimate if you should continue to concentrate on music as a major. 

I say if your background is decent, and your want / desire is great, take that year to start, and to find out where you stand - of course hoping that you can 'go all the way.'


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> ROFLMAO


What does that mean? Roll on floor laughing Mao Zedong?


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## Jaws (Jun 4, 2011)

*ItS the same in the UK*



PetrB said:


> If you started lessons between the age of four to six, continued studies from that time until now (including the summer months), practiced in earnest - far more than the basic required amounts - you may have a chance of having some kind of at least modest success.
> 
> All works for exams must be played from memory - no exceptions. A typical first semester freshman jury requires a Bach prelude and fugue from book one or two of the WTK or one or several movements from the French or English suites or the Partitas, a classical sonata (Haydn, early Beethoven, Mozart, etc.), a romantic era piece - often a Chopin Etude, a Brahms Ballade, etc. -- and a 20th century work (Bartok, Prokofiev, Messiaen, Takemitsu and more contemporary than that). That is a Minimum requirement. Each semester requires something similar, at several notches up in difficulty. Of course you will be working on additional solo repertoire at the same time, and other parts of ensemble pieces which you will also be doing.
> 
> ...


Music students at conservatoires here in the UK are required to study for a degree as well as music performance.

Here in the UK it is not normal for young people thinking of studying music to be told the truth about their chances of having a playing job. So many times I have been told that you can't destroy people's dreams. So they find out after wasting 4 years and a lot of money that they can't get a playing job. The other problem here is that the conservatoires are different standards. Some conservatoires are more difficult to get into because they have a higher standard. So many young people seem to think that they can still have a playing career having failed to get into one of the higher standard conservatoires. They seem unable to work out that they have failed to get into a top conservatoire, because someone else did who is better than them, and that that person is also more likely to pass any orchestral audition because they are better.

I wish someone here would grade the conservatiores in terms of difficulty of getting a place. At the moment there is a huge difference in standard between the bottom of a lower standard conservatoire, and the top of a top conservatoire. It is extremely unfair for this information to not be public, and only availabe to people who have contact with professional musicians.

I don't think that it would be unfair to say that for the vast majority of students thinking of studying music that they are actually likely to be thinking of studying for something that eventually will lead to a dead end job.

If you are thinking of teaching music in a school here, you would do better to study music at a university. It will also cost one less year of fees and living costs as university music courses are 3 years. 1 year shorter than conservatoire degrees.

There is also the case that there is no actual qualification for being a professional performer. This depends on how many vacancies there are and whether you are up to the standard. There is nothing to stop anyone from studying a non music degree at university and then becoming a professional musician without ever going to a conservatoire, however I don't think that this is often pointed out to good players.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Did anyone say already that Piano Majors are exceptionally lonely? The hours that it requires to practice are awful, literally like a full-time job for some, plus weekends. Also, in conservatories they aren't able to hang around other majors like vocal, strings and winds, except for chamber music and regular classes like theory or history. Otherwise, almost no contact since there are no large ensembles, and all that practicing. At my School of Music, the pianists mingle with each other and then hide away, only to be seen leaving or entering the building, and working with chamber music.

Another thing I want to add: it could be in your best interest to go for a cheaper school. Cheaper in price doesn't always mean cheaper in opportunities. Think of it this way: you could be in 40,000$ worth in debt after 4 years, or 160,000$ after 4 years, and be at same level musically. Individual work counts as everything nowadays.

Fortunately, piano is one of the most versatile of music degrees. Although only a few get to be soloists, accompanying, small gigs like weddings, and teaching combined can earn a decent living. Flute unfortunately is more limited, although it is popular for gigs too.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

A piano student should study more than just piano repertoire, and become familiar with orchestraal music, operas, chamber music , choral works, lieder etc . This will make you a better and more well-rounded musician .
If you're working on Beethoven sonatas and his piano concertos, its important to be familiar with his symphonies, string quartets, Fidelio , and other works, also .


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Did anyone say already that Piano Majors are exceptionally lonely? The hours that it requires to practice are awful, literally like a full-time job for some, plus weekends. Also, in conservatories they aren't able to hang around other majors like vocal, strings and winds, except for chamber music and regular classes like theory or history. Otherwise, almost no contact since there are no large ensembles, and all that practicing. At my School of Music, the pianists mingle with each other and then hide away, only to be seen leaving or entering the building, and working with chamber music.
> 
> Another thing I want to add: it could be in your best interest to go for a cheaper school. Cheaper in price doesn't always mean cheaper in opportunities. Think of it this way: you could be in 40,000$ worth in debt after 4 years, or 160,000$ after 4 years, and be at same level musically. Individual work counts as everything nowadays.
> 
> Fortunately, piano is one of the most versatile of music degrees. Although only a few get to be soloists, accompanying, small gigs like weddings, and teaching combined can earn a decent living. Flute unfortunately is more limited, although it is popular for gigs too.


Classical guitar would be worse.


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Classical guitar would be worse.


Probably the worst. Very few are lucky to make it in that world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as the OP: Life in music is hard, but that doesn't mean you should not pursue it. Shame on you first two replies to this thread!!! I started off as a *Music Education* major. I am also a pianist, although I'm very aware that I'm not very good in comparison to those who wish to make money playing piano. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of performing either. But instead, I got into the world of music academia, where I currently study *Music Theory*. It's a very specified track, but it'll probably get me a decent job at a university where I can teach, research, and eventually move into administration.

Those that have said everything about gigging is correct. Learn as much repertoire (anything) as you can. Accompanists are in high demand in music schools. If you're able to carve out a niche in some school, then you may be set. I knew of someone who accompanied almost all of the vocalists in my undergrad. Another did the clarinet studio. As you can imagine, very often they end up playing the same works over and over again. But until you get there, learn everything!

If music is your passion, then you will be successful. Those that fail in music degrees are those who do not have passion for what they do. Success comes in varying degrees but as long as you're doing what you love, you're always going to be a winner!


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Sorry Romantic Geek but I see no shame in being "honest". Just because you might be one of the lucky ones to make a good living in music does not nullify the fact that the majority who graduate with music degrees do not make good livings. Oftentimes barely sustainable livings with long periods of unemployment. I worked for many years for one of the top ten music schools in this country and only the top tier ever are able to make a good living in music. My personal philosophy is being a "realist" and I don't believe in setting people up for failure through unrealistic optimism. I also am not a pessimist as I do believe that real talent should be nurtured but the majority of talent I saw at the university was mediocre at best and universities are in the business to make money and prey on the young and gullible. I've seen it far too often for words. But if you are one of the exceptional talents I say good for you and give it all you've got! 

Kevin


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

Kevin Pearson said:


> Sorry Romantic Geek but I see no shame in being "honest". Just because you might be one of the lucky ones to make a good living in music does not nullify the fact that the majority who graduate with music degrees do not make good livings. Oftentimes barely sustainable livings with long periods of unemployment. I worked for many years for one of the top ten music schools in this country and only the top tier ever are able to make a good living in music. My personal philosophy is being a "realist" and I don't believe in setting people up for failure through unrealistic optimism. I also am not a pessimist as I do believe that real talent should be nurtured but the majority of talent I saw at the university was mediocre at best and universities are in the business to make money and prey on the young and gullible. I've seen it far too often for words. But if you are one of the exceptional talents I say good for you and give it all you've got!
> 
> Kevin


Of my peers who I've seen fail to make it in the music world were those who were not passionate about music. The rest could find jobs teaching in schools or teaching privately. That's my reality.


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