# Is it really about the music?



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

This is my opinion, and my opinion alone. Am I here for music? Yes and no. I am also here to fight, and I'm tired of pretending I'm not fighting here. Every man on Earth is fighting everyday. But we fight as we are trained, and the most dangerous thing I've ever experienced maybe very different from the most dangerous thing YOU have experienced. We fight as we know. When my brother puts on a suit he cannot afford, and gets in one of his 3 vehicles he cannot afford, and drives to a job to sell INSURANCE, which most people cannot afford. That is his fight and he fights daily. It is ONLY because he doesn't realize he is at war that he is losing. I've read the passive aggressive baiting here since, well, Nov 2013. But to some men, the fight is here, their words are their weapons or tools, dull or sharp. Flat or sharp, if you will. 

Now here's what really bothered me. I expected this site to be full of intelligent and educated men and women, willing to discuss music intelligently. For the most part, that is exactly what this site is. But I'm not the only one here who has been trained differently. If you avoid a handful of areas here, you avoid most conflict. Call it "Switzerland". But some areas area ALWAYS at war. We turn off our televisions when the sights horrify us. We look away when we should ask why. We see children being VIOLATED on national television and we turn it into a commercial television program that BAITS MENTALLY DISABLED PEOPLE AND PUTS THEM IN PRISON! But they don't catch every predator. Some of them they let go on public television. Educated men walked free that very night. Do you believe me? Research.

But this is a musical site and a musical thread and I wouldn't be here without a genuine love of music that vibrates my soul on a higher frequency, yet we argue over is "Classical better than Rap" Of course it is, by nature, but Rap has value, and most of you are afraid of its poets. But when I was an Army recruiter, and my "fellow" recruiters were preying on underage women, I was in the poorest, most rundown ghetto I could find. Not to recruit a child. To save a life, if possible. 

You see, we all have tabs, and mine is bigger than most. But I'm paying my debts and settling all accounts. Who am I? If YOU consider yourself to be of a higher order because of words on paper on walls, then I am YOUR ADVERSARY. Without men like me in war, saving instead of killing, you WOULD NOT BE SAFE LONG. If the worst thing you've ever seen was on television, and you looked away, I AM YOUR ADVERSARY! If you are Roman Catholic and you have never heard of Marcial Maciel, I AM YOUR ADVERSARY!!

What does war have to do with music, you may ask? If watching the Eroica is the most heroic thing you've ever done, you will die alone. My father was the Leader of the Band, and I'm just a living legacy who knows how to use both sides of my mind and body. I am here for 3 things

1. Musical discussion
2. War
3. War

...and now consider this. If you've never been in a physical fight, disregard. All fights (wars), by NATURE, end one of three ways

1. Death (I'm prepared)
2. Mercy (This is me)
3. Intervention (Ban me)

Don't be upset with me for calling most of you soft. It's no more an insult than when people I can humiliate physically and verbally call me gay. I take it as a compliment because their next step is physical violence. See above. If you understand the game of Chess, you will understand this, and possibly me. If I am the black queen, there is an EQUAL and OPPOSITE queen with exactly my power. But by nature, I am their adversary and, again, see above. The Queen understands the pawn and I have compassion. The pawn, by nature, can NOT comprehend the nature of the queen.

So in closing, I am not here to fight. I am here FIRST and FOREMOST for the MUSIC. It's the reason I joined. BUT, I am capable of defending myself and I am not a soft man. If the only way to silence me is to censor me, I WILL WIN!


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Ah, relegated to the community forum, and with such efficiency and speed. The title of the thread is about music. The post was about music. I placed it where it belonged. NOT where you WANTED it. It's ok. I'm one step ahead of you. See above.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Forgive my saying so, but you seem rather angry about something. I'm just here to talk about music and to learn something new wherever I can.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

chill782002 said:


> Forgive my saying so, but you seem rather angry about something. I'm just here to talk about music and to learn something new wherever I can.


I accept this and I'll counter with my original post. If we can not leave this conversation wiser, may we leave it happier.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

If you'd like to hear a story about two American soldiers who were merely trying to communicate and coordinate under combat situations, and these two men, on the same side, and the same rank, in an attempt to merely communicate a common goal, nearly physically fought each other. I was one of them. 2 factors led to this

1. War
2. We raised our voices, in an attempt to communicate, and when voices raise, emotions raise, and men use sport in an attempt to STOP them from doing what men REALLY do. Fight, kill, and leave no survivors. 

If your assumption of my emotion led to your discomfort, this is not my concern. I don't need to forgive you for being the bravest to go first. I congratulate your bravery.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I'm not uncomfortable at all, thank you. War is indeed a terrible thing although I can't claim to have experienced it personally. However, my late grandfather lived with the physical and emotional scars of it for over 50 years until his death and I don't believe he ever fully recovered from it. Again, please forgive my presumption in asking, but might it be reasonable to assume that you feel the same way he did? If so, I salute you for your bravery in serving your country but I also understand that things like that are not easy to put behind you.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

And your kindness and bravery show in that response. We are now conversing as adults and I see the beauty in this. The respect is mutual but thanks make me very uncomfortable. It's my firewall. My own arrogance is my firewall.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I understand but there really is no need to have a firewall here, as far as this wonderful place is concerned, it really is about the music. I hope you agree that music is a great healer and my grandfather used to find great solace in it, particularly when past memories sometimes became too much for him to deal with. His favourite was Beethoven's Violin Concerto and, although he has been dead for nearly 20 years, I still think of him whenever I hear it. I remember him once playing it to me when I was a child and saying, "Man is capable of many terrible things, but he is also capable of producing marvels like this and that fact gives me hope".


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

And we just traveled in time together and listened to Beethoven with your grandfather, as performed by Beethoven himself. Why don't people understand this? But, I don't sleep like most people.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I wish you all the best and I hope very much that the music you love gives you the same solace that it did my grandfather. Music is eternal and it persists and comforts. Maybe that is why we value it so highly.


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Reading your first post I do not see problems in your speech (I just read your post now, so I couldn't be the first to answer, sorry if this means something special for you)
But 'here' (in "here" read also "in society") you are speaking with walls...
Few here have real interest in learn or discuss something, most part are interest in the ego-war or futilities.
(So, what a great waste of time...)

I work as a professional composer-pianist, and despite of people enjoying or not what I play, I notice how difficult is to make anyone to take 1 minute to listen one recording of mine and how easy is to the same person discuss for hours and hours why they "think like this or like that" according to what media ruled their minds focused in the two main options given above (ego-wars/futilities)

Is it really about the music? 
95% no. (sometimes I have the impression we have more discussion of pseduo-semantics - because it is made without study nor knowledge about it - than music)
But I'm not interested in people calling me arrogant because I was not swallowed by the media's ignorance. So, I keep my way as much silently as possible and share my musical discoveries with the few interested in music.
And guess what... :devil: :lol:

...good luck
Artur Cimirro


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

cimirro said:


> Reading your first post I do not see problems in your speech (I just read your post now, so I couldn't be the first to answer, sorry if this means something special for you)
> But 'here' (in "here" read also "in society") you are speaking with walls...
> Few here have real interest in learn or discuss something, most part are interest in the ego-war or futilities.
> (So, what a great waste of time...)
> ...


I very much appreciate the time this took you. Communication, by nature, requires two open lines, or we're simply talking to ourselves. I find value in both. When my words are arrogant and my actions humble, a conundrum exists. When people at the country club ask me why I listen to Opera, and don't have tattoos, and don't curse often, and see no value in money, and pay full cost for quality, and work in my gardens, and sing in my shower, and don't crush beer cans on my head, and don't listen to heavy metal or Rap. Well, I am pleased to call them stereotypes and I'm thrilled to shatter them. But I do it with a silent smile and a nod of acknowledgement.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

On this Community subforum, I'm looking for entertainment. Seems like I found some with this thread  Keep raging!


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> On this Community subforum, I'm looking for entertainment. Seems like I found some with this thread  Keep raging!


And I will counter with this. If my words entertain you without pain, and your words entertain me without pain, stick around and laugh with me. But dismissing me is easier than talking to me.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

And remember this too please. You are only reading this in the Community Subforum because it was placed here by someone other than its creator. Right or wrong, I created this, and I did not place it here.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> And I will counter with this. If my words entertain you without pain, and your words entertain me without pain, stick around and laugh with me. But dismissing me is easier than talking to me.


I'm not dismissing you. What do you want to talk about? You didn't leave anything in the air or open-ended.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> I'm not dismissing you. What do you want to talk about? You didn't leave anything in the air or open-ended.


Of course you are not. We are, and were speaking in this way. The topic has a name and the discussion is fluid. Let's discuss exactly that.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Ok, so let me understand what you mean by War. I got that you were an Army Recruiter. So now you make war on classical websites with words? Your will to live is based on fighting? Or is it some sort of competition?


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Ok, so let me understand what you mean by War. I got that you were an Army Recruiter. So now you make war on classical websites with words? Your will to live is based on fighting? Or is it some sort of competition?


Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

I have never broken my own bones. And I have never been hurt by words. Only actions inspired by those words.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
> 
> I have never broken my own bones. And I have never been hurt by words. Only actions inspired by those words.


Ok, so you're some kind of armchair philosopher?


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Ok, so you're some kind of armchair philosopher?


No my friend. I am the opposite. I am the philosopher who actually climbed Mt Sinai. I swam in the Red Sea. I walked Petra, because my fathers built it.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

But nothing I have done was for me to sit and enjoy. Your words are false. I don't fault you.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> But nothing I have done was for me to sit and enjoy. Your words are false. I don't fault you.


You on some kind of medication, man?  You're a real hoot. Let me guess, you are over the age of 60? Retired?


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> You on some kind of medication, man?  You're a real hoot. Let me guess, you are over the age of 60? Retired?


Mistaken, but i will enlighten you now. I am 40 by name, yet older by age. I deny medication and "numbing" of pain. You turn to humor to make uncomfortable things feel comfortable. I teach men how to stop the pain. I have been doing this longer than you can imagine. I wont stop because they wont stop.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> Mistaken, but i will enlighten you now. I am 40 by name, yet older by age. I deny medication and "numbing" of pain. You turn to humor to make uncomfortable things feel comfortable. I teach men how to stop the pain. I have been doing this longer than you can imagine. I wont stop because they wont stop.


ok, so how old are you then by age, Mr. 40? So you delight in the uncomfortable? Maybe that is what you meant by "war"? Are you just some lonely guy looking for some social interaction? But people turn you away?


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm here mostly to talk about music. What I've found really good in this forum is that it tries to keep politics out of music discussion. Sometimes that seems to be almost impossible, because of the crazy time we live in, but that's where moderation comes in. I've seen lots of discussion boards, and trust me, in order to work, forum needs active moderation. Here it seems to work pretty okay.

In my opinion, discussion about CM doesn't have to be intelligent, but ideal forum would be a place where all people interested in CM feel comfortable. Be it a four seasons lover, or advocate of the Vienna Boys, or a professional musician, or a top composer thread activist. What it means is a civilized attitude, or at least aiming to that. It doesn't mean total void of conflict, or even aggression, but personally I try hard to handle conflicts with as friendly attitude as possible. I think conflicts are part of human life and discussion, and sometimes we all behave in stupid ways. Again, proper moderation helps a lot when self-moderation fails.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Lenny said:


> I'm here mostly to talk about music. What I've found really good in this forum is that it tries to keep politics out of music discussion. Sometimes that seems to be almost impossible, because of the crazy time we live in, but that's where moderation comes in. I've seen lots of discussion boards, and trust me, in order to work, forum needs active moderation. Here it seems to work pretty okay.
> 
> In my opinion, discussion about CM doesn't have to be intelligent, but ideal forum would be a place where all people interested in CM feel comfortable. Be it a four seasons lover, or advocate of the Vienna Boys, or a professional musician, or a top composer thread activist. What it means is a civilized attitude, or at least aiming to that. It doesn't mean total void of conflict, or even aggression, but personally I try hard to handle conflicts with as friendly attitude as possible. I think conflicts are part of human life and discussion, and sometimes we all behave in stupid ways. Again, proper moderation helps a lot when self-moderation fails.


That's admirable, but this thread is about war or at least 2/3 of it. I'm trying to provoke Scratchgolf, since he said words never hurt him.  He said he was here for fighting. I don't see him putting up much of one. Just running in circles. :lol:


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> ok, so how old are you then by age, Mr. 40? So you delight in the uncomfortable? Maybe that is what you meant by "war"? Are you just some lonely guy looking for some social interaction? But people turn you away?


I was born in 1977 but conceived in 1976. August 1976. I am older than this. Westerners call me a Bull. The Chinese call me a Snake. The Mayans call me a Flower. I was conceived as a Lion. I understand numbers and letters. Not just in English. You can not insult me because I don't take interest in such activities. I removed people with words and draw others closer. I am not a violent man. My words incite violence and peace. When they change, people change. I pay attention.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> I was born in 1977 but conceived in 1976. August 1976. I am older than this. Westerners call me a Bull. The Chinese call me a Snake. The Mayans call me a Flower. I was conceived as a Lion. I understand numbers and letters. Not just in English. You can not insult me because I don't take interest in such activities. I removed people with words and draw others closer. I am not a violent man. *My words incite violence and peace. When they change, people change.* I pay attention.


That's good you know that, saying certain things make people angry with you, and saying nice things make peace. But did you have to be older than 40 to realize that and mention that on a Classical music board?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

scratchgolf said:


> Mistaken, but i will enlighten you now. I am 40 by name, yet older by age. I deny medication and "numbing" of pain.


I'd love to be your dentist.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> I'd love to be your dentist.


My teeth are perfect and you would be poor if your were ONLY my dentist. Do YOU know what happens to "Wisdom" teeth after they are surgically removed from humans and replaced with Narcotics? You would be a terrible dentist if you did not.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> That's good you know that, saying certain things make people angry with you, and saying nice things make peace. But did you have to be older than 40 to realize that and mention that on a Classical music board?


Correct. And I was conceived on Aug 10th, 1976. I have memories of this, and other things I should have NO way of remembering. Are you laughing yet?


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Me right now.

I thought this was about disappointment with people of this forum that chats about "this is better than that" or that do not show their experience or intelligence in their arguments. Even not caring about the lyrics, I like a bunch of Rap artists if you are asking about that. But this thread has turned into a dramedy I don't know how to react to.

Forgive my English sir, and don't worry. Spain is really good at staying out of other people's business.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

scratchgolf said:


> My teeth are perfect and you would be poor if your were ONLY my dentist. Do YOU know what happens to "Wisdom" teeth after they are surgically removed from humans and replaced with Narcotics? You would be a terrible dentist if you did not.


Actually, I'm not a dentist although my grandpa was a drill sergeant. Anyways, once I'm done with you, your teeth will be far from perfect.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I had a wisdom tooth out years ago, but no narcotics were introduced as a replacement.

I feel cheated.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I've had a few root canals. They can be painful, but the trick is to feel rotten just before the procedure.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

scratchgolf said:


> Correct. And I was conceived on Aug 10th, 1976. I have memories of this, and other things I should have NO way of remembering. Are you laughing yet?


Were those memories extracted by hypnosis? I do remember a time or two when I was about 3 years old before pre-school.


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