# New adult piano student



## babygranddreamer

I'm Brian and I'm almost 53 years young.

I began piano three days ago on Monday.

I'm self-taught and I'm using the Faber and Faber for older students series. I really like it, however, I think I should move through it quicker. (I'm beginning to work on Chopin Opus 28 No.4 - my favorite piece of all time)

My background is playing double bass from ages 10-19 and getting into the Florida West Coast Symphony Orchestra (now the Sarasota Orchestra) under the direction of the late Paul Wolfe. So I do know how to read the bass cleff. I'm learning the treble cleff now. I can figure it out but I can't look at it yet and just call out the notes like I can on the bass cleff so there is that.

Why am I playing the piano? 
1. I like that it's its own instrument. It doesn't need anything else. 
2. you don't have to worry about being in tune/pitch. You either hit the middle c or you don't. Playing a stringed instrument you had to make sure the c was a c.


I quit when I was 19 because I was getting a lot of panic attacks driving at night to/from concerts and it took all the enjoyment away. That is a lot better now; however, my wife does drive me around.

I just want to play the great classsics on piano. I'm sure I'll be able to learn a lot here.


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## babygranddreamer

oops. forgot to add that I am trying to get lessons as I don't want to learn a wrong technique, etc.
But the teacher is looking at her schedule to see if she can get me in.


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## Krummhorn

Welcome to the forum 

In my humble opinion it is never too late to learn to play an instrument. 

I had an organ students in their 60's years ago who became a very confident church organist.


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## Phil loves classical

Your musical background will help you learn the piano faster than music beginners. I've been playing the piano for over about 35 years since I was 7, and my technique still sucks. Everyone learns differently.


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## babygranddreamer

Well I got my first lesson this Saturday morning. I can hardly wait.


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## Guest

How are you getting on with your lessons , babygranddreamer?


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## Guest

*Help with rolled chords*

Help with rolled chords


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## Guest

*Rolled chords.*










Please can you help me with these two bars. The first is with the rolled chord and the staccato F on the bottom stave. Do I play the staccato note , on the first F of the rolled notes on the treble stave?

Second bar is the C sharp, with the A. Are both these notes played as staccato?

Thanks.


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## babygranddreamer

poco a poco said:


> How are you getting on with your lessons , babygranddreamer?


I just had my eighth lesson today. I have seem to have come a crawl now. I'm not advancing as much as I used to be.

I'm doing chords with my left hand and simple melodies with my right but they seem to take longer to come together as a whole.

I will say I find myself in the dumps a lot more than before. It feels huge and impossible-ish. I know I have to power through so I can get to the good stuff. It's rather tedious. My hands "fight" each other etc.

but I am practicing 20-30 min. 3 times a day. I need to break the pieces down and practice slower. My mind jumps ahead of what my hands can do and it's making me get frustrated, lock up and get tight which isn't helping anything...

It's easy to start to dream about quitting and why didn't I take up cello instead or go study chess, which I still might do, LOL.

I feel because of my dyslexia I'm not getting simple things like I should but I think I have to hang in there and take a deep breath and keep at it.


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## Guest

Your fingers lock up or do you mean tense up? Or is it due to some other problem. 

However, there are finger exercises you can do, practice scales two octaves and back, practice stretching to reach octaves. or you can just play anything add lib. before starting , try placing your hands in warm water for a few minutes to get them supple, there are lots of ways for finger exercise. 

I'm not sure how advanced a piano player you are, but I would have thought for a beginner, that the Chopin piece, Opus 28 No.4 is about grade 4, and maybe too challenging to start with. Only my opinion. 


What other pieces has your tutor given you to practice?


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## Guest

Here are some very good hand and finger exercises I discovered.


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## Taggart

babygranddreamer said:


> I just had my eighth lesson today. I have seem to have come a crawl now. I'm not advancing as much as I used to be.
> 
> I'm doing chords with my left hand and simple melodies with my right but they seem to take longer to come together as a whole.
> 
> I will say I find myself in the dumps a lot more than before. It feels huge and impossible-ish. I know I have to power through so I can get to the good stuff. It's rather tedious. My hands "fight" each other etc.
> 
> but I am practicing 20-30 min. 3 times a day. I need to break the pieces down and practice slower. My mind jumps ahead of what my hands can do and it's making me get frustrated, lock up and get tight which isn't helping anything...
> 
> It's easy to start to dream about quitting and why didn't I take up cello instead or go study chess, which I still might do, LOL.
> 
> I feel because of my dyslexia I'm not getting simple things like I should but I think I have to hang in there and take a deep breath and keep at it.


Czerny always used "boring" exercises so students didn't try to play too intensely. There is no fast way - lots of slow separate practice. Never mind what it should sound like, get it under your fingers. Let your hands play the piece so you don't have to think about the mechanics. Think about driving - you started by fussing about pedals, brakes, steering - now, you just drive you look round, observe, pay attention. All because you are not concentrating on the mechanics. Piano is the same thing. Learn the notes, put them together then you can add all the niceties. It will come - in time.


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## Iota

poco a poco said:


> Please can you help me with these two bars. The first is with the rolled chord and the staccato F on the bottom stave. Do I play the staccato note , on the first F of the rolled notes on the treble stave?
> 
> Second bar is the C sharp, with the A. Are both these notes played as staccato?
> 
> Thanks.


The answer to your second question is yes.

As far as your first question is concerned from what I can see in that example, it looks as if either way could work. It often depends on what era/style of music you're playing. In the Classical period for example the rolled chord will generally start on the beat (so the top note is slightly after the beat, and the answer to your question in your example is 'yes'), but there's no hard and fast rule. It could also depend on how fast the music is, or maybe even how busy the end of the previous bar is.

Hope that's not too vague, but if you generally aim to make it sound as suitable to the context/spirit of the music as possible, I don't think you'll go too far wrong.


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## eugeneonagain

Taggart's advice is wise and, I think, based upon having experienced it personally?

Learning piano is partly about motor skills and all motor skills need to be drummed in to establish that brain-movement connection. Until, as Taggart wrote, you don't have to concentrate too intensely on the actual mechanics of playing.

There is lots of material to develop this. Aside from the usual Czerny there are several excellent texts by Louis Kohler (you can get them for free here at IMSLP).

Also the _Joy of Classics _series edited by Denes Agay has an excellent selection of original pieces which are graded to skill level. So you get playing the music right away. These are very useful I think. I have some of them and I've been playing for years, I enjoy going through them.

It's different for everyone (ask your teacher), but from the outset don't let your left hand lag behind with static playing. Give it practice.


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## babygranddreamer

my hand tense up. 
It's just piano. I have to relax more. I get uptight easily.


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## Larkenfield

Teacher. Teacher. Teacher. Live. Pay them for lessons. It can cut years off playing around and wondering how to do something, because they can play the examples, correct fingerings, grade the difficulty of each piece, prevent the formation of terrible habits that could take years to correct. A teacher can help alleviate tension and anxiety about playing certain passages. Their mission in life is to help students succeed in the shortest amount of time. For most new students, a 30-minute weekly lesson is a great starting point, costing on average, depending upon one’s location and the experience of the teacher, between $15 and $40. As one’s playing progresses, however, most students benefit from longer lessons, such as 45 minutes to an hour. There is no substitute for being apprenticed to a good teacher. I think aspiring students forget that being a musician is the same as learning a trade, and there's no substitute for being directly shown by someone how to correctly do something.


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## eugeneonagain

^ Whilst a teacher helps a great deal, it might not be within the reach of everyone; certainly when at the top-end of that estimate it will cost up to, or in excess of, 2,000 dollars/pounds/euros per year, which is a costly extra expense. 
There are quite a few here who are already retired with a fat pension from the good years and plenty of time on their hands, but there are also people without those luxuries. Since I don't know who belongs to which group it's worth looking at alternatives, at least until a person feels it's worth taking lessons.

The reason I suggested the Denes Agay books (which are not teaching method books, but just music) is because the grades go from simple to intermediate in the way a teacher would grade them and they have good fingering guides. It is perfectly possible to develop good fingering without a teacher. The difference with a teacher is that it is suggested and implemented immediately and you get the examples and corrections.

Some people have more willpower, patience or are better at solving problems and such people can go far by themselves. Not everyone needs a teacher at first. Others will benefit from the motivation and guidance. It's a matter of requirements.


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## Larkenfield

In all fairness to the music, here are sincere people wanting to be helpful taking probably 15 to 30 minutes to type out an explanation that could so easily be explained or demonstrated by a live teacher in probably less than 5. That's the value of regular live instruction, and I feel it's exceedingly important to keep pointing this out, based on my own personal experiences with teachers. People think that learning an instrument is hard. It is. But it can be 10 times harder to unlearn something that could have so easily been learned properly in the first place. The cost of something is so often relative to the value that one places on it. What's the cost of starting something, wanting to play the classics, and perhaps never finishing for want of a good teacher and his or her encouragement. To play anything well there's a price to be paid one way or another...


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## eugeneonagain

I don't disagree about the value of teachers, I had two outside school and one in school, but I am trying to cover all eventualities. Everyone is different, I picked up the flute on my own and with a few pointers from players I've met I can play in ensembles.

Very often the first thing people do, when they take up some new area of learning, is run to a teacher; it's not always the best thing to do.


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## Guest

Iota said:


> The answer to your second question is yes.
> 
> As far as your first question is concerned from what I can see in that example, it looks as if either way could work. It often depends on what era/style of music you're playing. In the Classical period for example the rolled chord will generally start on the beat (so the top note is slightly after the beat, and the answer to your question in your example is 'yes'), but there's no hard and fast rule. It could also depend on how fast the music is, or maybe even how busy the end of the previous bar is.
> 
> Hope that's not too vague, but if you generally aim to make it sound as suitable to the context/spirit of the music as possible, I don't think you'll go too far wrong.


Thank you Iota, yes, that is very helpful.  The piece is a lovely Renaissance dance, by Michael Praetorius. 1571-1621. Bransle de la torche. 92 bpm

.


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## Iota

poco a poco said:


> Thank you Iota, yes, that is very helpful.


 Glad it was of some use 



poco a poco said:


> The piece is a lovely Renaissance dance, by Michael Praetorius. 1571-1621. Bransle de la torche. 92 bpm.


In which case I personally would definitely start the rolled chord on the beat. My experience of playing this kind of late Renaissance/early Baroque music is limited, but this does seem intuitively right to me. Nice to hear you're enjoying it so much, I feel I should get know Praetorius better.


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## Guest

eugeneonagain said:


> I don't disagree about the value of teachers, I had two outside school and one in school, but I am trying to cover all eventualities. Everyone is different, I picked up the flute on my own and with a few pointers from players I've met I can play in ensembles.
> 
> Very often the first thing people do, when they take up some new area of learning, is run to a teacher; it's not always the best thing to do.


In my experience, many students (not just the younger one but older ones, too) seriously misunderstand the role of the teacher. The teacher is really there to correct bad technique, not teach note reading and all that basic stuff. That's what google is for, and it's a waste of time to go over it in too much detail in lessons. But the technical stuff does not come intuitively to almost any student and that's where an experienced and well-attuned teacher enters the picture.

And OP, get off the faber books (or any lesson book) as quickly as you can. They drag on and don't really teach the things they mean to teach as well as they think they do. Once you're comfortable reading simple music on the grand stuff, just start learning simple music. Get anthologies of leveled pieces that you can work through. And, of course, be ready for a slow and steady slog up. Remember to focus on technique above anything: fingerings, hand and wrist positioning, tension, etc. Don't let yourself get away with not thinking about that, and hopefully your teacher doesn't either.


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