# Should Das Rheingold have an intermission?



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I love it, but it is 2 1/2 hours.

That can be a real hardship on some folks.

Movies, plays, shows have them.

And it might be unhealthy to sit that long.

Maybe during one of the scene changes?

What do you think?
:tiphat:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I sat through over three hours of the interminable last episode of Lord of the Rings desperately wanting Jackson to finish the thing! Intervals are a blessing especially as you get older and need to e re use aging joints and visit the loo more often!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Definitely a yes from me. I like intermissions for many practical and social reasons. And I guess it's good for the opera house finances too.

Does anyone know if it's been done?


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

The current Flying Dutchman at ROH also plays without an interval at about 2.5 hours. 

I planned by having my last caffeine in the morning, nothing to drink with my evening meal and sitting in the Amphitheatre, by the end my left leg was noticeably cramped and uncomfortable. 

Rheingold I saw in a box which allowed a little more movement. I was perhaps lucky with the performance at the Proms 2 summers ago but it was an incredibly intense experience and having an interval would only have diluted that.


At the ROH a couple of weeks ago a lady fainted (I presume) and had to be carried out around the 2hr stage. As in the Theory of Everything the majority of the audience then proceeded to watch this play out rather than the stage.


I will happily sit though Rheingold again, but not sure if I'll pay for another single act Dutchman.


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

To repurpose the quote of a more contemporary artist: Wagner suffered for his art, now it's our turn. I say no to intermissions during Das Rheingold.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

What? It's only 2 CDs long. The other three are 4 CDs in length.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Perhaps the anvil chorus just before Scene III could serve as the 'intermission over, finish your beer' signal.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

^ I missed that. I finished Rheingold last week, but I didn't follow with the libretto.

But, wow! I definitely didn't miss the Ride of the Valkyries yesterday, when I finished off with Die Walküre  If you ever hated opera because of the shrieking sopranos, this will cure you for good :lol:


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

It used to be done at the MET back in the thirties. In fact I have the 1937 broadcast of the MET Rheingold that has the intermission break and intermission feature. It has the most awful ending of part1 using the descending Trombone motif from the beginning of Act 3 Siegfried, then a crash chord to announce the end. Part 2 starts at the descent into Niebelheim.
It does not really lend itself to being broken up into two parts, although anything can be done.
I see no justification in splitting it. It is only 20 minutes longer than Act 3 of Meistersinger and no one has(as yet) split that.
One has to refrain from drinking too much liquid before a performance.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Technically - yes it could use an intermission (as could the last acts of_ Meistersinger & Gotterdammerung_)
Esthetically - absolutely not!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Itullian said:


> I love it, but it is 2 1/2 hours.
> 
> That can be a real hardship on some folks.
> 
> ...


Sadly enough I need a bathroom break in general .


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I vote yes for Rheingold AND Dutchman.

No sense for the audience to suffer and an intermission is such a welcome break.

I saw Dutchman with 2 breaks and it was wonderful

Relax people .


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## Loge (Oct 30, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> Rheingold I saw in a box which allowed a little more movement. I was perhaps lucky with the performance at the Proms 2 summers ago but it was an incredibly intense experience and having an interval would only have diluted that.
> 
> At the ROH a couple of weeks ago a lady fainted (I presume) and had to be carried out around the 2hr stage. As in the Theory of Everything the majority of the audience then proceeded to watch this play out rather than the stage.
> 
> I will happily sit though Rheingold again, but not sure if I'll pay for another single act Dutchman.


I was at the Proms Rheingold. I'm surprised nobody died, it was hotter than a Nibelung's forge. I spent two and a half hours wondering if any of the cast or musicians would pass out. Seem to remember that I went through three bottles of water.

The Dutchman musically has very obvious act changes so I say yes for that one. But with Rheingold the music is so seamless where would there be an interval?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Your old bladder
Might be gladder,

But Wagner knew
Better than you.

If you must be pissin,'
Stay home and listen.

A fine recording 
can be rewarding.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Itullian said:


> I vote yes for Rheingold AND Dutchman.
> 
> No sense for the audience to suffer and an intermission is such a welcome break.
> 
> ...


I think that Gotterdammerung would be better if performed without any intermissions.

:devil:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> I think that Gotterdammerung would be better if performed without any intermissions.
> 
> :devil:


Wimp! The whole _Ring_ could be done in fourteen hours, preceded by brunch, with popcorn during the magic fire music, followed by dinner and a good night's sleep.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

its a simple choice - colostomy bag or intermission - hahaha!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes, sitting through Das Rheingold can be a challenge and the dismay is understandable, but
Pip is right . Altering the music of Das Rheingold to make an artificial intermission is a 
travesty of Wagner's intentions and messes with the score in an an intolerable way . 
It's like the proverbial mustache on the Mona Lisa . But try to see a production of it dismay if you can .


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

Belowpar said:


> The current Flying Dutchman at ROH also plays without an interval at about 2.5 hours.
> 
> I planned by having my last caffeine in the morning, nothing to drink with my evening meal and sitting in the Amphitheatre, by the end my left leg was noticeably cramped and uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


I agree with Belowpar. I think Rheingold is more flowing and dramatic than Dutchman. Jeffrey Tate conducted a 2 hours 40 mins Dutchman a few years ago and in that same production and it was torture. Since I have only ever seen the one act Dutchman live I wonder if there is a connection to it being the only Wagner work I've never loved. Yes, I respect it but I would not pay a fortune or sell limbs to see it and I've tried four times now.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Nothing that a urinary catheter can't fix. Excuse me, madame. Would you mind holding this bag please


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

If Wagner had wanted an intermission in the middle of Das Rheingold , he would have put one in . Get over it !






:lol::lol:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

it's not healthy


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

All of the performances of _Das Rheingold_ I've attended were performed without intermission. Quite honestly, I'm careful to limit my intake of food and drink prior to attending any performances. It certainly makes for a more comfortable evening.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

a few weeks later I'll attend a performance. It will be played without intermission (in Budapest).


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

jflatter said:


> I agree with Belowpar. I think Rheingold is more flowing and dramatic than Dutchman. Jeffrey Tate conducted a 2 hours 40 mins Dutchman a few years ago and in that same production and it was torture. Since I have only ever seen the one act Dutchman live I wonder if there is a connection to it being the only Wagner work I've never loved. Yes, I respect it but I would not pay a fortune or sell limbs to see it and I've tried four times now.


Going through old Programmes I found that my Previous Dutchman was conducted by Simone Young at ROH and featured TWO intervals. My notes say that her pacing was "deliberate" (confirmed by others apparently) but my feelings for the Opera were pretty much the same. I'll pass for quite a while.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I have seen two live Rings. Once Das Rheingold is done with, you have the psychological relief that you have already endured the single longest stretch of the Ring, and the rest seems so much more manageable. Wagner knew what he was doing.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

C'mon guys.

A break is a healthy thing :tiphat:


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

Rheingold (and Holländer) are most effective when the tension and urgency can be maintained in one act. This can result in other tension...unfortunately. Less coffee is advisable.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

That argument could (and is) made for many works. La Boheme is another one (like Holländer) that opera companies sometimes play without an intermission... although still with a curtain and pause.

I'd sooner forego this perceived dramatic tension for the sake of my fellow opera fan - the late-comers, toilet-needers, those desperately holding back a cough, the hungry and thirsty, couples on a date who'd really like a chat, and those that don't like to be sat in an uncomfortable position for two hours. Plus there's the gazing at the architecture of a building, or bumping into friends. Therefore it is my opinion that the playing of a work without its traditional intermission is indefensible! 

:cheers: (me during intermission)


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

It takes Wotan and crew time to get back from Nibelheim anyway.

Break time....


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

ok ... then why aren't we also discussing whether there should be an intermission during the 2 hours of the prolog & Act 1 of_ Gotterdammerung_?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Becca said:


> ok ... then why aren't we also discussing whether there should be an intermission during the 2 hours of the prolog & Act 1 of_ Gotterdammerung_?


2 hours is about the limit, I would say.

why not 3 or 4 hours then?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Itullian said:


> 2 hours is about the limit, I would say.
> 
> why not 3 or 4 hours then?


To be honest, I found myself a lot more fidgety during the shorter second act of _Walkure_ than I did during _Rheingold_.

As to performing Flying Dutchman with no breaks, I have only attended a performance with breaks but I do have recordings both with & without and the musical logic of the transitions makes me see the argument for doing it without breaks.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

People can get fidgety in one hour.
Not the point.

I saw Dutchman with 2 breaks and it was great. Especially for my mom.
And it didn't hurt the drama at all.

In fact it was nice to be able to talk about it between acts.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Itullian;842519
I saw Dutchman with 2 breaks and it was great. Especially for my mom.
And it didn't hurt the drama at all.
.[/QUOTE said:


> All I said was 'musical logic', no mention was made about dramatic.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Of course, it's not unusual to have to sit through a 3hr movie these days.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Couac Addict said:


> Of course, it's not unusual to have to sit through a 3hr movie these days.


Movies don't count. We can get up anytime we want.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

Itullian said:


> People can get fidgety in one hour.
> Not the point.
> 
> I saw Dutchman with 2 breaks and it was great. Especially for my mom.
> ...


I saw Dutchman a year ago for the 1st time. It's performed without intermissons (in Budapest). There was a young english speaking couple in our box. one of them had to go to the restrooms. they asked me after the performance if there are stops in our opera house.

I saw it 4 times in 2 seasons, Agache is my favorite Hollander.

last time Badea conducted it, and it ran about 20 minutes longer. we have to prepare for conductors as well.


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

I hear Eric Owens is killing it at the Kennedy Center.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

I saw Ariadne auf Naxos on Sunday. It was performed without intermission.


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## Autumn Leaves (Jan 3, 2014)

The hardest Wagner for me to sit through is the 1st act of Götterdämmerung. I wouldn't have minded a break before Waltraute's visit, if the musical score allowed it. But I never have problems with Das Rheingold or Dem fliegenden Holländer.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I am leaning towards no here. The continuity and flow of the music will suffer. The opera is not designed that way.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: Of course not.

I wish Götterdämmerung had no intermissions so I could at least get home at a decent time. I remember attending a Thursday performance of it at the Met that started at 6:30 PM and I didn't get home 'til 1:30 AM with a full load of teaching the next morning at 8 AM. I was so thoroughly wasted! Luckily the kids never listened to my chemistry lectures. They never noticed.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Autumn Leaves said:


> The hardest Wagner for me to sit through is the 1st act of Götterdämmerung. I wouldn't have minded a break before Waltraute's visit, if the musical score allowed it. But I never have problems with Das Rheingold or Dem fliegenden Holländer.


Wow! That goes by like 15 minutes for me. Wagner's most inspired music, IMO.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

perempe said:


> I saw Ariadne auf Naxos on Sunday. It was performed without intermission.


Very different opera though,.
I say no to a intermission, just wallow in the music


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

No, no, a thousand times no. But I love Rheingold, and some here seem to treat it as an obligation, so YMMV.


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

I have always thought that the story of Rheingold would attract more younger audiences if it had an interval as it's the most mythological part of the Ring which a lot of school age children have an interest in.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

gardibolt said:


> No, no, a thousand times no. But I love Rheingold, and some here seem to treat it as an obligation, so YMMV.


Isn't YMMV the Hebrew name for Wotan?

Or does it mean "your mother makes vichyssoise?"


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Meanwhile we're advised not to sit in an ergonomically designed office chair for more than 30 minutes without standing to stretch the legs. If we can't have an intermission then what about the equivalent of a 7th inning stretch, like the famous stand during The Messiah's Hallelujah Chorus. 

Let's all get up and do a little jig during the anvil section! I could see it catching on.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

*


Woodduck said:



Isn't YMMV the Hebrew name for Wotan?

Or does it mean "your mother makes vichyssoise?"

Click to expand...

*These etymologies are a vichyssoise circle.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Intermission? No! Simply get those Niebelungen slaves to hammer at double time. Cuts around 15 minutes.

Thank me in the morning. :tiphat:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Don't you guys realise that _Rheingold_ is a sadistic experiment in testing the audience's bladder capacity? Why else do you think it begins with water flowing?

"Ever think about geysers and waterfalls? Hundreds of thousands of gallons of water! Flowing, spilling, rushing, gushing, splashing!" (_Calvin & Hobbes_)


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