# Examples of Soft Singing Done Right



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

A thread the other day got me thinking: soft singing is hard. In fact, I can think of only a handful of singers even among the greats who truly mastered the art (I trained as a singer for 5 years and honestly...I never got the hang of it at all). Too often, people sound 
1) woofy/muddy
2) strained
3) whispery and disconnected 
4) all over the place, not able to find the right balance with the music or understanding that dynamics are all about relativity rather than absolutes 
5) losing resonance because they think piano/pianismo mean "quiet" rather than being more about an expressive effect 
6) loss of resonance because the whole bottom half of their voice is underdeveloped

So I thought this thread would be a good place to share some of your favorite examples of a rare singer who can pull it off effectively.

First up: Beniamino Gigli. Note how he adjusts the dial between more soft and gentle vs more strong and ringing within the same piece.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Montserrat Caballe: the queen of pianismo


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

[video=youtube;qbS-RUwnSsc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbS-RUwnSsc[[/video]] Improbably I would add Nilsson to the list.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Improbably I would add Nilsson to the list.


for sure! her sleepwalking scene is just...omg


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Kirsten Flagstad. Proof that even the mightiest of Wagnerian voices can sing softly with good technique.


----------



## dave2708 (Sep 28, 2020)

Caballe was the champion of so called soft singing. 
Not breathy but enough pin point accuracy that you could still hear her at the back of the theatre if that makes sense.
She sometimes unnecessarily indulged it a bit too much.
She used it in part of In Questa Reggia from Turandot and it was indulgent & out of place.
Then again, the public wouldn't know so why not impress them!
She does it at the 3.50 mark.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

"Desafinado" by *João Gilberto*


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

And in keeping with the above....


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

These are from one of my favorite Gedda recordings, a Salzburg recital with Erik Werba in 1961:











I'm generally not a huge fan of Gedda, but this recital is gorgeous from start to finish. It was issued by EMI


----------



## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)




----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Radvanovsky
Milanov
Corelli
di Stefano
Caballe
Nilsson


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

I've posted this before but make no apologies as it is an outstanding performance imo.


----------



## dave2708 (Sep 28, 2020)

Battle had a beautiful delicate vocal.
Pity she was such a diva and got the chop from the Met. Never appeared in a another onstage opera again.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

dave2708 said:


> Caballe was the champion of so called soft singing.
> Not breathy but enough pin point accuracy that you could still hear her at the back of the theatre if that makes sense.
> She sometimes unnecessarily indulged it a bit too much.
> She used it in part of In Questa Reggia from Turandot and it was indulgent & out of place.
> ...


I liked it, but I am from Seattle, you know. Her C was really intense and powerful here.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

dave2708 said:


> Caballe was the champion of so called soft singing.
> Not breathy but enough pin point accuracy that you could still hear her at the back of the theatre if that makes sense.
> She sometimes unnecessarily indulged it a bit too much.
> She used it in part of In Questa Reggia from Turandot and it was indulgent & out of place.
> ...


She ditches the words, note values, dynamic markings. But standing with your arms out like that is one of the most difficult feats while singing *Turandot*!


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

The pp high B flat is possibly one of the most extraordinary notes I've heard; I simply can not imagine Bizet having anything other than this in mind when he marked the note pp (and NOT ff like many tenors perform it). We talk about the dynamic ranges of orchestras, but Vickers's dynamic range here is truly baffling.






I may be a huge admirer of Vickers, but I honestly think he might have been the best tenor of the stereo era.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BachIsBest said:


> The pp high B flat is possibly one of the most extraordinary notes I've heard; I simply can not imagine Bizet having anything other than this in mind when he marked the note pp (and NOT ff like many tenors perform it). We talk about the dynamic ranges of orchestras, but Vickers's dynamic range here is truly baffling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the recital album he did for RCA (Serafin conducting), which he recorded around the same time as his first recording of *Otello*. One of the things that impresses is the sheer size of the voice, and the power - a power that can be reined back to a merest pianissimo, then unleashed at will, like an organist pulling out all the stops. His intensity is also amazing.


----------



## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Kirsten Flagstad. Proof that even the mightiest of Wagnerian voices can sing softly with good technique.


How I love Flagstad! But is there a cut around 2:34 or does she sing another note? It is not something that we usually hear in this song and I am quite intrigued by it.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> The pp high B flat is possibly one of the most extraordinary notes I've heard; I simply can not imagine Bizet having anything other than this in mind when he marked the note pp (and NOT ff like many tenors perform it). We talk about the dynamic ranges of orchestras, but Vickers's dynamic range here is truly baffling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've admired Vickers in many things, but this performance is bizarre. He keeps fading almost out of audibility and then swelling to forte for a few notes, seemingly without musical justification, as if someone is fiddling idly with a volume knob. It isn't musical phrasing as I understand it. His pianissimo does sound nice, though.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Parsifal98 said:


> How I love Flagstad! But is there a cut around 2:34 or does she sing another note? It is not something that we usually hear in this song and I am quite intrigued by it.


It sounds as if she breaks the note into two, for what reason I can't guess.

Incidentally, I believe this is the only recording we have from Flagstad's Norwegian years. She didn't become known internationally until the 1930s, when she appeared at Bayreuth and went from there to the Met. I can't think of any recordings between 1929 and 1935, the year of her Met debut as Sieglinde.


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I've admired Vickers in many things, but this performance is bizarre. He keeps fading almost out of audibility and then swelling to forte for a few notes, seemingly without musical justification, as if someone is fiddling idly with a volume knob. It isn't musical phrasing as I understand it. His pianissimo does sound nice, though.


I actually agree, although I wonder if some of this might be the recording. His later performance with Karajan for the DG movie is overall better, but the pp high B flat is incredible in this earlier performance.


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Incidentally, I believe this is the only recording we have from Flagstad's Norwegian years.


This set has recordings going back to 1914:


----------



## dave2708 (Sep 28, 2020)

Surprisingly, Corelli was never one for subtlety, but here he takes the top b flat at the end of Celeste Aida and lets the sound die away to a soft tone.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> This set has recordings going back to 1914:
> 
> View attachment 161482


Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The idea that 1941 was "early," when Flagstad was 46, is odd. Many if not all of the selections appear to be on YouTube, and the genuinely early ones seem to be mostly little-known (to most of us) Norwegian songs. Since she sang many operatic roles in Norway, it's disappointing not to have any of that. I wonder if it exists?


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

dave2708 said:


> Surprisingly, Corelli was never one for subtlety, but here he takes the top b flat at the end of Celeste Aida and lets the sound die away to a soft tone.


I am afraid I might have fainted if I heard this live LOL It was sort of on the order of giant voiced Nilsson's wonderful piano singing... so surprising.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The idea that 1941 was "early," when Flagstad was 46, is odd. Many if not all of the selections appear to be on YouTube, and the genuinely early ones seem to be mostly little-known (to most of us) Norwegian songs. Since she sang many operatic roles in Norway, it's disappointing not to have any of that. I wonder if it exists?


Other than being a house soprano in Oslo she had only sung in Bayreuth before her super nova debut at the Met around age 40 I believe. At that time success in Bayreuth didn't guarantee success elsewhere. The fact that she took up the big Wagner roles so late likely was one of the things that accounted for her sounding so good up till her 60's, plus she didn't sing at all for four years when she went home to Norway in WW11. I wish we had her singing Italian roles! Un Ballo or Il Trovatore maybe!!!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am afraid I might have fainted if I heard this live LOL It was sort of on the order of giant voiced Nilsson's wonderful piano singing... so surprising.


_Diminuendi_ were one of Corelli's stocks in trade. He loved doing them and did them often in *Il Trovatore * and especially in *Tosca*, all live. His _diminuendi _in *La forza del destino*'s duet with Bastianini is legendary.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

One of the many _diminuendi _ from *Tosca*


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BachIsBest said:


> I actually agree, although I wonder if some of this might be the recording. His later performance with Karajan for the DG movie is overall better, but the pp high B flat is incredible in this earlier performance.


I thought it might have something to do with the recording as well. It seems to fade in and out.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I thought it might have something to do with the recording as well. It seems to fade in and out.


I don't think so. The orchestra doesn't seem similarly affected. His dynamic shifts get really erratic after 2:50, and he cracks at 3:17. I think he was having some vocal trouble, and the odd withdrawals into pianissmi may have been an attempt to spare himself and get through the aria.

This is much better: 



 He does more with dynamics than most tenors, but in this case it sounds more purposeful.


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I don't think so. The orchestra doesn't seem similarly affected. His dynamic shifts get really erratic after 2:50, and he cracks at 3:17. I think he was having some vocal trouble, and the odd withdrawals into pianissmi may have been an attempt to spare himself and get through the aria.
> 
> This is much better:
> 
> ...


I do agree the dynamic shifts in the earlier recording are very extreme, and possibly distracting, but the withdrawals into pianissimo seem too extreme to be caused by mere vocal trouble (I'm not a singer, but I know enough to know being really quite strains your voice), and are probably at least in part a conscious choice. I think the recording may be in play depending on how it was miked. If the quieter parts were even a bit louder compared to the orchestra, then I think the interpretation would sound significantly less odd.

As I said before, the Karjan recording is better. I chose the earlier one as the pp high B flat is more spectacular and this thread is about soft singing.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> I do agree the dynamic shifts in the earlier recording are very extreme, and possibly distracting, but the withdrawals into pianissimo seem too extreme to be caused by mere vocal trouble (I'm not a singer, but I know enough to know being really quite strains your voice), and are probably at least in part a conscious choice. I think the recording may be in play depending on how it was miked. If the quieter parts were even a bit louder compared to the orchestra, then I think the interpretation would sound significantly less odd.
> 
> As I said before, the Karjan recording is better. I chose the earlier one as the pp high B flat is more spectacular and this thread is about soft singing.


It's odd that his voice would crack at 3:17, which isn't a point that would normally cause a singer trouble. But whatever the case, the aria comes together better in later performances. Vickers was an intellectual among tenors, and in music the rational mind sometimes gets in the way. I suspect he was still working out his philosophy of Don Jose in 1963 - possibly losing some sleep and praying over it.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BachIsBest said:


> The pp high B flat is possibly one of the most extraordinary notes I've heard; I simply can not imagine Bizet having anything other than this in mind when he marked the note pp (and NOT ff like many tenors perform it). We talk about the dynamic ranges of orchestras, but Vickers's dynamic range here is truly baffling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my book, the only one I'd give an unquestioned nod to as being above him in the entire 20th century is Caruso!


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I've admired Vickers in many things, but this performance is bizarre. He keeps fading almost out of audibility and then swelling to forte for a few notes, seemingly without musical justification, as if someone is fiddling idly with a volume knob. It isn't musical phrasing as I understand it. His pianissimo does sound nice, though.


He does it again and again, he'll drive you crazy, he drove me crazy overworking the musical line. I'd rant on and on about it. But when he DIDN'T do it, and with the full musical/dramatic characterization, and in his greatest roles which were many...there was no one like him. If you happened to love the sound - and from other of your remarks I'm thinking you at least like it very much - then his accomplishments could be very high.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> _Diminuendi_ were one of Corelli's stocks in trade. He loved doing them and did them often in *Il Trovatore * and especially in *Tosca*, all live. His _diminuendi _in *La forza del destino*'s duet with Bastianini is legendary.


Here's my Corelli question, for you and Seattleoperafan. The diminuendo......absolute mastery! and your right, he does it again and again. And please believe me I'm a big fan of his so this is a genuine question.....did he ever take an upper note softly! Not begin full and decrescendo, did he ever go to the note softly? I haven't done an exhaustive search but I'm really not aware of any. I think Franco is one of those who are better off when they stay simple....that is in terms of musicality and presenting what the composer wanted. The audience was wowed by the diminuendos and high notes...I'm wowed.....but that's about Franco and his voice more than Radames. Although I will say that the diminuendo in Solenne in questora is effective. (that entire Forza is terrific!)But back to my question...are you aware of him ever taking an upper note softly?


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)




----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I know examples of soft singing make us think of pianissimo's hanging in the air but Bergonzi had a trademark diminuendo in "Che Gelida Manina" that is in the flow of the line. The B flat at "chi son, chi son" is pretty much always sung forte. Bergonzi took a small dynamic marking and expanded it to create a piece of poetry that has often been commented on. The rest of the aria aint too bad neither.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Here's my Corelli question, for you and Seattleoperafan. The diminuendo......absolute mastery! and your right, he does it again and again. And please believe me I'm a big fan of his so this is a genuine question.....did he ever take an upper note softly! Not begin full and decrescendo, did he ever go to the note softly? I haven't done an exhaustive search but I'm really not aware of any. I think Franco is one of those who are better off when they stay simple....that is in terms of musicality and presenting what the composer wanted. The audience was wowed by the diminuendos and high notes...I'm wowed.....but that's about Franco and his voice more than Radames. Although I will say that the diminuendo in Solenne in questora is effective. (that entire Forza is terrific!)But back to my question...are you aware of him ever taking an upper note softly?


I haven't really investigated that in his recording and performances,, that's an interesting observation, though.


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

ScottK said:


> Here's my Corelli question, for you and Seattleoperafan. The diminuendo......absolute mastery! and your right, he does it again and again. And please believe me I'm a big fan of his so this is a genuine question.....did he ever take an upper note softly! Not begin full and decrescendo, did he ever go to the note softly? I haven't done an exhaustive search but I'm really not aware of any. I think Franco is one of those who are better off when they stay simple....that is in terms of musicality and presenting what the composer wanted. The audience was wowed by the diminuendos and high notes...I'm wowed.....but that's about Franco and his voice more than Radames. Although I will say that the diminuendo in Solenne in questora is effective. (that entire Forza is terrific!)But back to my question...are you aware of him ever taking an upper note softly?


Probably not really what you wanted, but here he starts at mid-volume and crescendos.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't think Milanov always recorded too well, and most Studio recordings being later in her career doesn't help that, but the amount of people who heard her that just say things to the effect of 'you couldn't imagine what that voice was like in the theatre' make me think this must have been a supremely beautiful instrument in its prime and the pianissimi are stunning.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BachIsBest said:


> Probably not really what you wanted, but here he starts at mid-volume and crescendos.


Thank you so much for posting this! I'm always hearing about Corelli in Parma and I've been unaware if there are one or two standout performances or a bunch but I LOVED this!

Now I have to admit, I wasn't sure where the spot was that you were referring to. I assumed around the discoglea part but as you mentioned, it wasn't exactly soft so I wasn't sure.

BUT....I'd assume this has to be considered one of his great Parma performances. So close to being , in his way, perfect. He sounds glorious, he holds back and it has intensity and dignity. After the million and one E Lucevan's we've all heard I found it compelling. At that level I can't not mention how frustrating he is in the middle and at the end with those long held notes. If I'm not into the piece okay....you're Franco Corelli, go ahead. But I was with him the real way...Franco, Cavaradossi, the words the music all coming together and for me it took away all the rapture. I was loving him in the moment and there he is loving his voice.

I'll stop! It's a killer rendition and thank you for sharing!!!


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Thank you so much for posting this! I'm always hearing about Corelli in Parma and I've been unaware if there are one or two standout performances or a bunch but I LOVED this!
> 
> Now I have to admit, I wasn't sure where the spot was that you were referring to. I assumed around the discoglea part but as you mentioned, it wasn't exactly soft so I wasn't sure.
> 
> ...


Corelli's Parma Tosca is the performance that was his own favourite. However, I'm not sure that I would agree that it is his best. (That would probably be the Met performance with Price.) The distinguishing feature of the Parma Tosca is the wild reaction of the audience (who were/are known for not being afraid to make noise (whether in approval or not) during a performance (singers are not left in any doubt as to whether they are appreciated or not when performing there).

I have a CD of excerpts from his Parma performances (there was a Norma and a Trovatore as well as the Tosca), but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody other than hardcore Corelli fans.

N.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

The Conte said:


> Corelli's Parma Tosca is the performance that was his own favourite. However, I'm not sure that I would agree that it is his best. (That would probably be the Met performance with Price.) The distinguishing feature of the Parma Tosca is the wild reaction of the audience (who were/are known for not being afraid to make noise (whether in approval or not) during a performance (singers are not left in any doubt as to whether they are appreciated or not when performing there).
> 
> I have a CD of excerpts from his Parma performances (there was a Norma and a Trovatore as well as the Tosca), but I wouldn't recommend it to anybody other than hardcore Corelli fans.
> 
> N.


Not usually too hard to find some of them lying around! If you posted it I'd certainly listen,


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

The soft-singing in this clip is pretty amazing, no?


----------



## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

I recently got a CD compilation of Caruso and upon hearing this immediately thought of this thread. The incredible level of respect and admiration (and really, awe) I have for Caruso only increases the more I listen to his discography.






(Edit: you have to listen to the end and with a better remastering one gets a better sense of the beauty of his singing)


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

OffPitchNeb said:


> The soft-singing in this clip is pretty amazing, no?


Interesting perhaps to compare the young Di Stefano with Tito Schipa:


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Interesting perhaps to compare the young Di Stefano with Tito Schipa:


Alright I did. If this were one of the contests...it wouldn't be! I'll assume your a fan what with your avatar and a host of other reasons. I'm not saying that DiStefano is bad he's wonderful, though on this recording I think lacking some of that sweetness that say his La reve has. And this grainier version is very attractive and I can see why it made you think of Schipa. But Schipa is in another class. Line by line, that mournful sound always tells a story. I can't give Giusseppe that....now where's that button?


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Schipa all the way -- and I am a strong di Stefano fan -- and his was wonderful and his voice even prettier than Schipa's but the HEART is in Schipa's rendition all the way.

Now here's an example of how NOT to develop soft singing. A voice that is gorgeous but lacking softness and tenderness.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Back a bit in this thread MAS and The Conte, I believe, put on some wonderful Corelli. I'm a big fan but...it is Franco after all....and there can certainly be some bugaboos! One of mine is his obsession with the diminuendo...kind of like what Woodduck said about Caballe with pianissimos, "I know I can find a place to put one in here somewhere!" And I asked, has he EVER hit an upper note softly right off? Rhetorical question AND an actual question. Well recently I found as close to that as I ever have. His soft ending to the first verse here is pretty much the real deal, with almost no diminuendo and a lovely mezza voce. And as for the rest of the aria?? For those who love him, he really can be his own thing altogether. Very little of this rendition is what my minds ear hopes for in this aria. But what it is, still gets me more often than not. And despite all the things that aren't there, I love it!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Schipa all the way -- and I am a strong di Stefano fan -- and his was wonderful and his voice even prettier than Schipa's but the HEART is in Schipa's rendition all the way.
> 
> Now here's an example of how NOT to develop soft singing. A voice that is gorgeous but lacking softness and tenderness.


Thanks for the glimpse of Sarita Montiel in that clip!


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Back a bit in this thread MAS and The Conte, I believe, put on some wonderful Corelli. I'm a big fan but...it is Franco after all....and there can certainly be some bugaboos! One of mine is his obsession with the diminuendo...kind of like what Woodduck said about Caballe with pianissimos, "I know I can find a place to put one in here somewhere!" And I asked, has he EVER hit an upper note softly right off? Rhetorical question AND an actual question. Well recently I found as close to that as I ever have. His soft ending to the first verse here is pretty much the real deal, with almost no diminuendo and a lovely mezza voce. And as for the rest of the aria?? For those who love him, he really can be his own thing altogether. Very little of this rendition is what my minds ear hopes for in this aria. But what it is, still gets me more often than not. And despite all the things that aren't there, I love it!


Why start with a soft note when you can astonish with that masterful _diminuendo_ that was his alone? :tiphat: Thanks, ScottK!


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> Why start with a soft note when you can astonish with that masterful _diminuendo_ that was his alone? :tiphat: Thanks, ScottK!


:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

nina foresti said:


> Now here's an example of how NOT to develop soft singing. A voice that is gorgeous but lacking softness and tenderness.


So who, if they started from the beginning with the goal of becoming a real opera singer, gets farther...Mario Lanza or Josh Groban? We know Lanza could make the sound but would the head have stayed screwed on straight long enough to actually have a career? Groban may have been a Papageno weight baritone or maybe something stronger who knows. But he probably would have done it!


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> So who, if they started from the beginning with the goal of becoming a real opera singer, gets farther...Mario Lanza or Josh Groban? We know Lanza could make the sound but would the head have stayed screwed on straight long enough to actually have a career? Groban may have been a Papageno weight baritone or maybe something stronger who knows. But he probably would have done it!


Groban's voice is so amazingly beautiful to me, he has the range, and can I see him in tights. I was so sad to hear hear he suffered from depression. Dimash was invited to sing opera by the opera company in his country and he has a degree in classical singing but it would limit him and he is making so much more money in his cross over pop. Dimash could have sung as a baritone or a countertenor or a 6'5" coloratura soprano.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Groban's voice is so amazingly beautiful to me, he has the range, and can I see him in tights. I was so sad to hear hear he suffered from depression. Dimash was invited to sing opera by the opera company in his country and he has a degree in classical singing but it would limit him and he is making so much more money in his cross over pop. Dimash could have sung as a baritone or a countertenor or a 6'5" coloratura soprano.


Never heard of him before this. I'll give a listen when I have a little more time. Any recommendations?


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Never heard of him before this. I'll give a listen when I have a little more time. Any recommendations?


He is bigger outside the US. He got his start on China's got talent.The first video is a French song he and it is from his debut. He has the greatest vocal range of any artist... over 6 octaves and it is a full lyric soprano up high, not a small countertenors voice. He sings up to G8. From Kazakhstan. He sings both baritone and tenor. In the second and third videos he sings up to E6.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^Ugh. I have to skim and skip around in this sort of hyperproduced "product," which I find unbearable to sit and listen to, much less watch, in order to sample the sounds he makes. What would his various voices sound like without electronic enhancement? 

Sorry to be such an elitist old fart. This is an opera forum, after all.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Gigli singing Amirilli has some beautiful soft singing but allied to a core of steel. I think it can be found on YouTube.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=NkTRvEHHWDo&usg=AOvVaw1z5KPeQ7yjwY6h7ySA0fyx


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> ^^^Ugh. I have to skim and skip around in this sort of hyperproduced "product," which I find unbearable to sit and listen to, much less watch, in order to sample the sounds he makes. What would his various voices sound like without electronic enhancement?
> 
> Sorry to be such an elitist old fart. This is an opera forum, after all.


Don't be sorry. As a millennial who has friends who are part of his cult, I find him insufferable as a singer. The sounds he makes may be entertaining for some, but not me.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

OffPitchNeb said:


> Don't be sorry. As a millennial who has friends who are part of his cult, I find him insufferable as a singer. The sounds he makes may be entertaining for some, but not me.


There's hope for the world after all.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Can't believe I haven't posted this yet. Apart from the stunning _diminuendo_ on the high E-Flat around 1:43, followed by a feather light downward chromatic scale, there are the soft _staccato _attacks on the repeated triple high notes, at 2:48 and beyond. In fact, most of the variations are done in the _piano_ and _pianissimo_ regions.

Oh yeah, this is Maria Callas in the Cologne (Köln) *Sonnambula* (1957).


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> ^^^Ugh. I have to skim and skip around in this sort of hyperproduced "product," which I find unbearable to sit and listen to, much less watch, in order to sample the sounds he makes. What would his various voices sound like without electronic enhancement?
> 
> Sorry to be such an elitist old fart. This is an opera forum, after all.


Scott asked for recommendations and I delivered. I guess I should have private messaged him. Sorry. I do know opera lovers like me who like him, but I like popular music unlike most of you and not just Andy Williams LOL. I like rock and disco a lot. I listen to maybe more popular music than opera. I am 66 going on 16.


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

The G#5 (starts at 2:05) is pretty impressive _dolce _singing for a huge voice like her right? Do any of you know which opera was it from (I guess it was from La Forza) ?


----------



## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

OffPitchNeb said:


> The G#5 (starts at 2:05) is pretty impressive _dolce _singing for a huge voice like her right? Do any of you know which opera was it from (I guess it was from La Forza) ?


Verdi's Otello: it is from Desdemona's Ave Maria with that particular version from 1954 at La Scala with Del Monaco and Warren conducted by Votto #This might be wrong - see my other reply...

Edit: Found a video - note @ 3m55


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Verdi's Otello: it is from Desdemona's Ave Maria with that particular version from 1954 at La Scala with Del Monaco and Warren conducted by Votto


I will have to get that recording!


----------



## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I will have to get that recording!


Maybe hold your horses  I'm seeing different info for that same recording on the internet, it is included as an extra with a recording of Fernando Cortez with the excerpts dated 1950?? It is worth checking around first...


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Back a bit in this thread MAS and The Conte, I believe, put on some wonderful Corelli. I'm a big fan but...it is Franco after all....and there can certainly be some bugaboos! One of mine is his obsession with the diminuendo...kind of like what Woodduck said about Caballe with pianissimos, "I know I can find a place to put one in here somewhere!" And I asked, has he EVER hit an upper note softly right off? Rhetorical question AND an actual question. Well recently I found as close to that as I ever have. His soft ending to the first verse here is pretty much the real deal, with almost no diminuendo and a lovely mezza voce. And as for the rest of the aria?? For those who love him, he really can be his own thing altogether. Very little of this rendition is what my minds ear hopes for in this aria. But what it is, still gets me more often than not. And despite all the things that aren't there, I love it!


@ScottK
I found you a example of a Franco Corelli phrase where he starts a note softly. He begins _O paradiso_ at 1:07 quietly. Since it's 1970, he was not as confident vocally so he doesn't attempt a _pianissimo _.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> @ScottK
> I found you a example of a Franco Corelli phrase where he starts a note softly. He begins _O paradiso_ at 1:07 quietly. Since it's 1970, he was not as confident vocally so he doesn't attempt a _pianissimo _.


You found it!!!! And thats a nice attack! Its a restrained rendition but your right, he doesn't sound his most confident...never saw him drop a B flat that fast!


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am 66 going on 16.


:lol: I'm glad you did!! 
And don't worry...obviously I don't know him the way you do, but I'm thinking he's an elitist old fart who can take it!


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I post here again hoping someone could help me identify where was that this soft A5 and B5 from. They are so beautiful! I am not quite familiar with Ponselle's works to identify.

P/S: If Ponselle, Rethberg, Flagstad, Tebaldi are still around, I would pay just to hear they practice the scale.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I post here again hoping someone could help me identify where was that this soft A5 and B5 from. They are so beautiful! I am not quite familiar with Ponselle's works to identify.
> 
> P/S: If Ponselle, Rethberg, Flagstad, Tebaldi are still around, I would pay just to hear they practice the scale.


One can't tell. The selections are too short.She does a piano A5 I believe in the Nile Scene.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am 66 going on 16.


There's a tune for that in _The Sound of Music._ You should sing it at one of your talks.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

woodduck said:


> there's a tune for that in _the sound of music._ you should sing it at one of your talks.


lol lol ..........


----------



## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Verdi's Otello: it is from Desdemona's Ave Maria with that particular version from 1954 at La Scala with Del Monaco and Warren conducted by Votto #This might be wrong - see my other reply...
> 
> Edit: Found a video - note @ 3m55


The pianissimo sounds a lot like Ponselle's.


----------



## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I post here again hoping someone could help me identify where was that this soft A5 and B5 from. They are so beautiful! I am not quite familiar with Ponselle's works to identify.
> 
> P/S: If Ponselle, Rethberg, Flagstad, Tebaldi are still around, I would pay just to hear they practice the scale.


A5 is from Aida: O Patria Mia
4:01 in this video





B5 is from Trovatore: D'amor sull'ali rosee
2:26 in this video


----------



## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

^spot on. Thanks.


----------

