# underated jazz artists



## Seening (May 23, 2011)

who do you think is the most underated jazz artist. my choice is tenor sax don menza. the hard driving sound this guy gets out of his horn is incredable. i am amazed he is not more famous. take a listen to him. lets have your choices.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Jac Berrocal, a trumpeter who overlapped into avant-garde music and coldwave (sort of a French punk movement) in the 70s. Fond of using explosives and bicycles as instruments. He's rather impossible to classify and is most well known nowadays for another dada experimentalist's cover of one of his songs.

I'd also like to mention Grachan Moncur III. His name never carried quite as much weight in free jazz/fringe modal jazz circles as Eric Dolphy, Bobby Hutcherson, Wayne Shorter, etc. because some legal quibble ended his Blue Note career after two albums as a leader. Everything after those two is pretty unsung. His trombone functioned as a bluesy foil to the piercing tone of Jackie McLean in several sessions, but his songwriting is extremely distinct; shambolic and off-kilter in a Monkian sort of way, almost zombie-like.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Don Menza is truly a consummate artist. I was in a jazz clinic with him back in the day, and in addition to hearing him improvising on tenor sax, playing his compositions, and receiving advice on mouthpiece alteration, I saw him spontaneously pull out a flute and start playing a flute concerto by, I believe, Mozart. Later that year I heard him basically sightreading with Supersax. What a monster.

It's hard to name the most underrated player, but among the many underrated jazz players are Warne Marsh on tenor sax and Fred Lipsius, who played alto sax for Blood, Sweat & Tears and went on to teach at Berklee. Both are/were interesting soloists. I also have a soft spot for Frankie Trumbauer, who played C melody sax with Bix Beiderbecke.


----------



## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I would make a strong case for the great British jazz composer and bandleader/pianist Mike Westbrook. Mike has been producing cutting-edge, innovative and experimental jazz since his first album in 1967. Having recently celebrated his 75th birthday, Mike is still going strong and pushing the boundaries. I am regularly shocked when so-called jazz lovers haven't even heard of Mike Westbrook. Even if Mike's often uncompromising music isn't to their taste, how can anyone who professes to be a lover of jazz simply remain unaware of this remarkable man's work, spanning more than 50 albums over more then 40 years?

There isn't a large amount of Mike's music on YouTube, but here are a few examples of this man's genius:

_Love Song No 1_ from _Love Songs_ (1970)






_Metropolis IX_ from _Metropolis_ (1971)






Extracts from _The Cortège_ (1982)






_Checking-in a Hotel Le Prieure_ from _On Duke's Birthday_ (1984)(apologies for poor live sound)






_Long John Brown_ and _Little Mary Bell_ from _Glad Day_ (1997)






_Yellow Fig Leaf_ from _Fine 'n Yellow_ (2010)






And much, much, more great music that I couldn't source on YouTube, including albums like _Mama Chicago_ (1979), _Westbrook Rossini _(1986), _London Bridge is Broken Down_ (1988), _Off Abbey Road_ (1989), _Platterback_ (1998) and _Chanson Irresponsable _(2002).


----------



## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Here's a video from Mama Chicago I couldn't include on the previous post.


----------



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Oscar Peterson cannot be overrated, so....


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I think under-appreciated is a better term. I'm going to go with Allan Holdsworth. An extraordinary musician who towers above his peers, but has never been celebrated like Pat Metheny or John McLaughlin.

I suppose it's difficult for the non musician to truly appreciate just how original and innovative his approach to modern jazz guitar is, but it is truly staggering.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> I think under-appreciated is a better term. I'm going to go with Allan Holdsworth. An extraordinary musician who towers above his peers, but has never been celebrated like Pat Metheny or John McLaughlin.
> 
> I suppose it's difficult for the non musician to truly appreciate just how original and innovative his approach to modern jazz guitar is, but it is truly staggering.


Holdsworth is an immense talent, and i'm not talking only about his incredible virtuosity. His harmonic conception is something different that i've never heard in other guitarists. And i agree with you, it's difficult for non guitarists to understand his greatness. But i must say that i admire him a lot but i don't love his music, because unfortunately i often find his albums very boring and cold (my favorite is probably "Believe it" with Tony Williams), and i don't like at all also the horrible fusion sounding of albums like Metal fatigue. 
I don't know if you know him, but though i consider Mclaughlin and Holdsworth two of the greatest guitarists ever, my favorite "Coltrane of the guitar" is probably Tisziji Munoz, who is even more underrated than Holdsworth and is just as original. And the fact that on his albums you can find musicians like Alice and Ravi Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders means something:





Anyway i'm curious, what's your favorite albums of Holdsworth?


----------



## robert (Feb 10, 2007)

In my opinion most jazz players are underrated....


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

norman bates said:


> Holdsworth is an immense talent, and i'm not talking only about his incredible virtuosity. His harmonic conception is something different that i've never heard in other guitarists. And i agree with you, it's difficult for non guitarists to understand his greatness. But i must say that i admire him a lot but i don't love his music, because unfortunately i often find his albums very boring and cold (my favorite is probably "Believe it" with Tony Williams), and i don't like at all also the horrible fusion sounding of albums like Metal fatigue.
> I don't know if you know him, but though i consider Mclaughlin and Holdsworth two of the greatest guitarists ever, my favorite "Coltrane of the guitar" is probably Tisziji Munoz, who is even more underrated than Holdsworth and is just as original. And the fact that on his albums you can find musicians like Alice and Ravi Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders means something:
> 
> 
> ...


It's unfortunate that you find much of Holdsworth's music boring. My experience is just the opposite. Metal Fatigue for me is fantastic! Pieces like Home, Devil Take The Hindmost, and The Unmerry Go Round feature incredible playing and writing.

Holdsworth is uncompromising and he uses a rock guitar sound with a lot of intensity, so I suppose it's not for everyone, but if you listen closely there is much beauty to be found.

I suppose if asked I would recommend his albums Secrets, and Wardenclyffe Tower. There is also a good 2-CD anthology called Against The Clock.

I have heard of Tiziji Munoz. I have one album which seems heavily influenced by Coltrane. Holdsworth also drew much inspiration from Coltrane in his formative years.

If you're interested in a guitarist with a very advanced harmonic concept, but with a sound closer to jazz than Holdsworth, I recommend Ben Monder. He is pretty amazing! Try his first couple of albums, Flux, and Dust.


----------



## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

starthrower said:


> It's unfortunate that you find much of Holdsworth's music boring. My experience is just the opposite. Metal Fatigue for me is fantastic! Pieces like Home, Devil Take The Hindmost, and The Unmerry Go Round feature incredible playing and writing.
> 
> Holdsworth is uncompromising and he uses a rock guitar sound with a lot of intensity, so I suppose it's not for everyone, but if you listen closely there is much beauty to be found.
> 
> ...


i do know Monder and he's a great guitarist, and i agree that he's one of the more harmonically advanced guitarists. And i much prefer his stuff to the now much more famous Rosenwinkel


----------



## Stasou (Apr 23, 2011)

Hmmm. Brent Jensen on alto sax is pretty underrated. His sound and concept in general are so very similar to those of Desmond....


----------

