# Change of taste



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I used to hate Elgar immensely, especially his cello concerto which I considered to be the musical equivalent of faeces. 

I made a cellist friend recently. Elgar's cello concerto is one of most beautiful pieces of music ever composed.


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## ProudSquire (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm glad that you came to think of the work as such, but unfortunately, I still struggle with it. Maybe, just maybe one day, I'll actually listen to the first movement in its entirety. :]


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

May I ask is it more to do with the friend or your changing taste?

I was like that with some composers, Saint Saens and Rodrigo are two. I judged them negatively before (eg. as superficial) but now I enjoy their music.

It took me many years, 6 years to come round to Varese, and now I quite like him (but don't listen to him that often as he's very intense). Coming round did not mean repeated listening but getting more life experience, seeing some of the less pretty or 'neat' sides of life which I think Varese music connects with.

As for Elgar, my favourite pieces by him are his late chamber works, esp. the _String Quartet in E minor_. Quite a tragic and angry work in some ways, expressing his state of mind after WW1, which was far from being cosy. Another work I remember enjoying (I must listen again) is _The Dream of Gerontius_. & of course the P&C marches always give me a boost.

But I think you're kind of brave to admit a change of taste and I think that proves that musical taste, its always in a state of flux, informed by our experiences with other people, getting more information, life experiences and not the least the music itself.


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

I have not bothered to listen to the cello concerto. A few years ago I heard my first piece of Elgar. To this date, that remains the only piece of Elgar that I have ever cared to hear.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

@sid, yeah this thread is about change of taste. She played the opening for me and I thought it was magnificent. I always have to imagine the concerto as being composed in the 1860s rather than 1919 so I don't yell out "CONSERVATIVE" haha. 

I used to hate Stravinsky when I was ten.


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## korenbloem (Nov 5, 2012)

I believe change of taste is an evolving event, that merged by the flow of time. I am new to this forum, but it amazes me how some people hate the new era of classical music and have forgetten that most composers weren't popular in there time and most of the audience saw them as to avant-garde. 
Music innovations need's his time to evolve and adapt. When in the era of Monteverdi: people where getting introduced by solo singen, how did they react?. How did they react on the experimentel phase of bach? How did people react on mahler's own symphonies? In the late 50's we learned about Minimalisme and that 'everything can be used as music' and now 60 years later cage is becoming a more performed composer.
I think over 20 years, a composers like Schnittke will get the same intellectual adoration as Mahler got in the 60's, 70's and 80's. And is probably one of the most popular composers around 2050.

The modern world has an different problem: orchestra's, musichouses etc are getting more got off financialy, then ever before on the same tame popular conductors and soloist are taking almost entire budgets and they need to play popular pieces, so that tickets will be selled.


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## korenbloem (Nov 5, 2012)

I believe change of taste is an evolving event, that merged by the flow of time. I am new to this forum, but it amazes me how some people hate the new era of classical music and have forgetten that most composers weren't popular in there time and most of the audience saw them as to avant-garde. 
Music innovations need's his time to evolve and adapt. When in the era of Monteverdi: people where getting introduced by solo singen, how did they react?. How did they react on the experimentel phase of bach? How did people react on mahler's own symphonies? In the late 50's we learned about Minimalisme and that 'everything can be used as music' and now 60 years later cage is becoming a more performed composer.
I think over 20 years, a composers like Schnittke will get the same intellectual adoration as Mahler got in the 60's, 70's and 80's. And is probably one of the most popular composers around 2050.

The modern world has an different problem: orchestra's, musichouses etc are getting more got off financialy, then ever before on the same tame popular conductors and soloist are taking almost entire budgets and they need to play popular pieces, so that tickets will be selled.


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I used to hate Elgar immensely, especially his cello concerto which I considered to be the musical equivalent of faeces.
> 
> I made a cellist friend recently. Elgar's cello concerto is one of most beautiful pieces of music ever composed.


Have no fear, you'll get fed up with it.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> @sid, yeah this thread is about change of taste. She played the opening for me and I thought it was magnificent. I always have to imagine the concerto as being composed in the 1860s rather than 1919 so I don't yell out "CONSERVATIVE" haha.
> 
> I used to hate Stravinsky when I was ten.


Aw, and I was just about to applaud you for making a subtle and witty implication that musical tastes are sometimes influenced by trivial extramusical factors. Turns out your post was exactly what it says.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Kopachris said:


> Aw, and I was just about to applaud you for making a subtle and witty implication that musical tastes are sometimes influenced by trivial extramusical factors. Turns out your post was exactly what it says.


lol, it's obvious that the fact that this "friend" is a girl had something to do with this "change of taste"... which, btw, is a step back, since Elgar wrote the most pompous and silly music I can think.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

So I figured out that Elgar is hated by the people in UK that would hate J.P.Sousa if they were born in USA. (You can reverse this sentense: Elgar -> J.P.S - and, UK -> USA)


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

About myself, I used to dislike neo-classical music, but now I listen to them sometimes a week.

Also I disliked Rock'n'roll and 70s-80s Blues two years ago, but now I listen to and enjoy them sometimes.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I was expecting something more drastic. Like you now prefer Traditional Classical Music over Contemporary now. lol


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Your next step might be to try his Symphony no. 2. Also, if you can, pretend Elgar was Australian.


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## pendereckiobsessed (Sep 21, 2012)

I had a very similar change in taste, except with Brahms and Glass.
I thought Glass was the worst absolute thing I ever heard. You know, he just repeats the same motif THOUSANDS of times with little to no variations. I even hated him enough to tell him that he should never compose again. Similarly I thought Brahms was extremely uncolorful in his orchestrations, but I didn't hate him as much as Glass.

Now I think Glass's music is extremely beautiful and hardly never boring. And also I think Brahms is amazing and is among the best at expressing emotion. I have no idea why I disliked their music now. And I also have a liking for all types of classical music, From Renaissance to Contemporary, From Palestrina to Ligeti.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2012)

I used to dislike the Classical era--thought most of it was insipid, but I do like it now. My other change involves losing my taste for contemporary music. I used to listen primarily to Xenakis, Penderecki (early pieces), Lutoslawski, Ligeti et al, but now I can barely tolerate it.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I never had a severe dislike for Brahms and Glass. It's just their music doesn't interest me. I move on to something I like more. Like Baroque.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I almost ordered a 3 disc set of Rachmaninoff's orchestral music after hearing Symphonic Dances on the radio. But after sampling the symphonies I put the brakes on. I still might go for a single CD of the Dances; Isle Of The Dead.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2012)

Some on this forum have suggested that we shouldn't judge negatively music we dislike. I disagree, and take both my likes and dislikes seriously.

But not too seriously. As the OP has suggested, tastes change. Every time I condemn, say, Bluebeard's Castle, in the back of my mind I wonder whether it will be one of my favorite pieces some day. Probably not, but it's an interesting thought.


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

I guess I have become too fond of Schumann, maybe he will be among my favorites, who knows. That's really weird considering that until recently I totally ignored him. (I didn't know a single piece by him).


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

aleazk said:


> lol, it's obvious that the fact that this "friend" is a girl had something to do with this "change of taste"... which, btw, is a step back, since Elgar wrote the most pompous and silly music I can think.


It is one of the greatest works ever written and no girl persuaded me of that .It's most certainly not pompous or silly---have you heard it?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> So I figured out that Elgar is hated by the people in UK that would hate J.P.Sousa if they were born in USA. (You can reverse this sentense: Elgar -> J.P.S - and, UK -> USA)


No,there is no comparison.Elgar didn't write music for marching bands altho he did write some symphonic marches.
In any case I've got lots of Sousa and other march composers.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

starthrower said:


> I almost ordered a 3 disc set of Rachmaninoff's orchestral music after hearing Symphonic Dances on the radio. But after sampling the symphonies I put the brakes on. I still might go for a single CD of the Dances; Isle Of The Dead.


This is a curious thing. Rachmaninoff wrote two very popular pieces when he was past 60 years old: The Paganini Rhapsody and the Symphonic Dances. Both sound very fresh and forceful. But a lot of his earlier orchestral and concerted music seems, in comparison, so much mush (to me of course!) Isle of the Dead, The Rock, even the Corelli Variations don't hold my attention at all.

His "Big 3" (Symphony #2 and Piano Concertos #2 and #3) had all been written in his 20s and 30s...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

moody said:


> It is one of the greatest works ever written and no girl persuaded me of that .It's most certainly not pompous or silly---have you heard it?


Well, I think a girl did persuade many of us to connect with Elgar's cello concerto. I'm talking of Jacqueline du Pre of course. Many say hers was the definitive performance. In any case, this 'gal' did kind of put that work firmly in the spotlight, when I think of that work she automatically comes to mind.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> lol, it's obvious that the fact that this "friend" is a girl had something to do with this "change of taste"... which, btw, is a step back, since Elgar wrote the most pompous and silly music I can think.


You have the wrong idea.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

CoAG, you mention that you find Elgar's cello concerto beautiful now (you are, of course, correct ). I know you disliked Elgar and the concerto before. Did you find it ugly? Did you think it was boring? Did you think his style was ridiculous? What was your view (other than comparing it to what you did). 

Also do you now like anything else by Elgar? Along with the cello concerto, I think the Enigma Variations are truly beautiful. 

My change of taste involves Berg's Violin Concerto. Originally I found it uninteresting and could make no sense of what I heard. I found no part of the work beautiful. After various attempts in a variety of ways (which I've described elsewhere), I somewhat suddenly found it beautiful. The notes no longer sound random. The harmonies clicked. I found myself eager to listen and captivated by the entire work. I still really can't exactly say what has changed or how I "accomplished" my transformation.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You have the wrong idea.


Even if it was just a friendship. A girl is always easier to like.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I never had a severe dislike for Brahms and Glass. It's just their music doesn't interest me. I move on to something I like more. Like Baroque.


Similar to your thread on the classical era, I wonder why disliking Brahms seems so common? I am now a big fan of Brahms, but in the past my feelings were much more mixed, and I thought little of the symphonies, favoring miniatures and dances for orchestra and piano, "Brahms-lite." So I can kind of understand, but all the same, once I got over it, I find a very unique and unparalleled experience in Brahms. I love the darkness, and what I initially perceived as cranky, thick, intellectual, austere, and even contrived, now seems to me complex, stormy, and fierce, evocative, and sincere. In other words, what was once intellectual is now very much emotional. The thing is neoshredder, you are not alone. My father doesn't like Brahms, and yet he can always recognize Brahms because it is uniquely incomprehensible and or frustrating to listen to for him, even though classical music is not his main thing at all. Some great contemporaneous and later composers didn't like him either, Johann Strauss II(he liked Bruckner a lot though), Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, and some others have said some pretty disparaging comments or just haven't been able to warm up to Brahms. English composer Ethyl Smythe liked Brahms but was friends with Tchaikovsky, and Tchaikovsky who admired her and her music, told her that his biggest issue with her was her admiration for Brahms!

Glass on the other hand, is for the most part pretty boring. I give him as honest and brave an effort as I am capable every once and a while and usually find a few pieces and things to like, but I always relapse, for whatever reason being unable to ultimately accept Glass's output on the whole as very interesting at all.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> English composer Ethyl Smythe liked Brahms but was friends with Tchaikovsky, and Tchaikovsky who admired her and her music, told her that his biggest issue with her was her admiration for Brahms!


Ethel Smythe of course wrote "March of the Women," for which much can be forgiven, or little.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

clavichorder said:


> ...
> Glass on the other hand, is for the most part pretty boring. I give him as honest and brave an effort as I am capable every once and a while and usually find a few pieces and things to like, but I always relapse, for whatever reason being unable to ultimately accept Glass's output on the whole as very interesting at all.


Its due to the earworm factor I dislike with Glass. He's a great tunesmith and his stuff can be kind of addictive for me. So I limit the times I listen to his things (limit my intake). Its more of a virtue than a vice for Glass (as with others who I find to be like this, eg. Saint Saens) & more to do with how I 'receive' his music.

Btw I enjoyed reading what you said re Brahms. Interesting how your taste changed with him.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

mmsbls said:


> CoAG, you mention that you find Elgar's cello concerto beautiful now (you are, of course, correct ). I know you disliked Elgar and the concerto before. Did you find it ugly? Did you think it was boring? Did you think his style was ridiculous? What was your view (other than comparing it to what you did).
> 
> Also do you now like anything else by Elgar? Along with the cello concerto, I think the Enigma Variations are truly beautiful.
> 
> My change of taste involves Berg's Violin Concerto. Originally I found it uninteresting and could make no sense of what I heard. I found no part of the work beautiful. After various attempts in a variety of ways (which I've described elsewhere), I somewhat suddenly found it beautiful. The notes no longer sound random. The harmonies clicked. I found myself eager to listen and captivated by the entire work. I still really can't exactly say what has changed or how I "accomplished" my transformation.


I had always thought the opening of Elgar's cello concerto was sluggish and boring and the big slow orchestral tuttis were cliché and uninterestingly homophonic and hardly fitted the era it was composed in, especially during and after things like Stravinsky, Prokofiev, the Second Viennese School, futurism etc.

I really like Elgar's serenade for strings. 

Haha, when I first heard Berg's violin concerto in its entirety two or three years ago I also didn't like it. I thought it was boring and rehash and Schoenberg wrote a better violin concerto. Now I think it is gorgeous.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I am a recent Brahmsian too when I discovered his piano quartets.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Similar to your thread on the classical era, I wonder why disliking Brahms seems so common? I am now a big fan of Brahms, but in the past my feelings were much more mixed, and I thought little of the symphonies, favoring miniatures and dances for orchestra and piano, "Brahms-lite." So I can kind of understand, but all the same, once I got over it, I find a very unique and unparalleled experience in Brahms. I love the darkness, and what I initially perceived as cranky, thick, intellectual, austere, and even contrived, now seems to me complex, stormy, and fierce, evocative, and sincere. In other words, what was once intellectual is now very much emotional. The thing is neoshredder, you are not alone. My father doesn't like Brahms, and yet he can always recognize Brahms because it is uniquely incomprehensible and or frustrating to listen to for him, even though classical music is not his main thing at all. Some great contemporaneous and later composers didn't like him either, Johann Strauss II(he liked Bruckner a lot though), Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, and some others have said some pretty disparaging comments or just haven't been able to warm up to Brahms. English composer Ethyl Smythe liked Brahms but was friends with Tchaikovsky, and Tchaikovsky who admired her and her music, told her that his biggest issue with her was her admiration for Brahms!
> 
> Glass on the other hand, is for the most part pretty boring. I give him as honest and brave an effort as I am capable every once and a while and usually find a few pieces and things to like, but I always relapse, for whatever reason being unable to ultimately accept Glass's output on the whole as very interesting at all.


Good point. Though I like Tchaikovsky more. I think it is because his music is more accessible.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Kontrapunctus said:


> I used to dislike the Classical era--thought most of it was insipid, but I do like it now. My other change involves losing my taste for contemporary music. I used to listen primarily to Xenakis, Penderecki (early pieces), Lutoslawski, Ligeti et al, but now I can barely tolerate it.


Wow most people I know went the other way around!


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I used to hate Elgar immensely, especially his cello concerto which I considered to be the musical equivalent of faeces.
> 
> I made a cellist friend recently. Elgar's cello concerto is one of most beautiful pieces of music ever composed.


I used to think similarly about Russian Romantics (except Tchaikovsky) but now I think the Russian Romantics are not that bad.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Wow most people I know went the other way around!


Particularly with regards to losing taste for those modernists in question.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Rapide said:


> I used to think similarly about Russian Romantics (except Tchaikovsky) but now I think the Russian Romantics are not that bad.


I actually felt something kind of similar with a lot of them. Mussorsky was an exception, but Rimsky Korsakov, Glazunov, Borodin, and even Rachmaninoff and Scriabin, seemed "thin" to me, although the latter two seemed less thin(the antithesis in many ways) and more just shmulzy, winey, and somewhat inorganic. My feelings have changed a lot on this.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I've come around on Brahms quite a bit, I used to not enjoy his music at all.

I used to consider Mahler a favorite of mine, but I don't anymore, all though the things of his I like I still _really_ like.

I am starting to appreciate Messiaen and Ligeti more. They are still not favorites of mine, but I've discovered works by both that I feel are quite good. The same thing happened with Elliot Carter, and Copland - after initially not being too interested in them I came across several works I very much enjoy.


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