# Help with Beethoven SQ 14



## nefigah

So whenever a "favorite SQ" poll comes up (and sometimes favorite piece polls in general), the famous C# minor quartet is ubiquitous, often at or near the top of people's lists. 

I'm pretty new to the genre, previously only really familiar with a few of Haydn's SQs (which I quite like). After hearing so much about the late Beethoven quartets, I bought a recording (the Lindsays, which seemed to get good reviews). 

I guess I feel like I'm missing something, like I skipped some essential part of musical development that would allow me to properly enjoy these works. Well, I shouldn't say I don't enjoy them, but they aren't anywhere near favorites of mine yet. I'd like to "drink the kool aid," as it were--really I'd just like to appreciate them at the level they deserve. 

Are the late quartets an acquired taste? Does appreciation of them tend to presuppose intimacy with the earlier SQs? Any thoughts?


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## Weston

The SQ No. 14 is like an intimate symphony for me, all the more so since the version in my collection is a string orchestra setting by Leonard Bernstein. I do not find this blasphemous, but rather think the texture of a string orchestra more appealing to my ears than the scritchy squawkiness of solo strings. If it is popular, it could be the epic scale of the piece that attracts people. Isn't that the one with 7 movements? Also I think its structure is out in left field compared to the other quartets.

I for one am more fond of the 15th with it's hymn of thanks in the 1st movement and also the 13th with the _Grosse fuge_ finale just beyond my grasp. The "_Serioso_" No. 11 is probably my favorite of the lot. I did not realize the 14th was so popular. Time to give it another listen. . .


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## nefigah

Interesting. It's true that the strings (especially the violin) get squawky, and in the recording I have of no. 14, I think it's especially so. Never considered the string orchestra route 
I think I also prefer the 15th, out of the lot--I'm a sucker for the 3rd movement


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## nickgray

> I'm pretty new to the genre


Get Shostakovich's SQ by Emerson Quartet.

And this cd:


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## Artemis

Beethoven's SQ no 14, Op 131, is one of my favourite works across all composers/genres. 

The late SQs were written between 1825-26, at the end of Beethoven’s late period, some 3 years after completing his last piano sonata, and a year or so after the completion of Missa Solemnis and the Choral Symphony. By this time in his career Beethoven was, to all intents and purposes, totally deaf. He was also suffering from anguish caused by serious troubles with his nephew, and there was growing social and political disturbance in Vienna at the time, which impacted adversely on the state of his finances. In addition there was a growing “Rossini fever” which detracted from Beethoven‘s reputation as the greatest living composer. Against these difficulties, or possibly induced partly because of them, Beethoven focused his musical energies on these late SQs, which were to become his swansong (and possibly his greatest) works. 

Beethoven’s late period is often regarded as his “contrapuntal period” as it involved considerable use of counterpoint. In terms of musical complexity, the late SQs far surpassed anything he had composed previously. SQ No 14, Opus 131, is often regarded as Beethoven’s finest SQ. What is so remarkable about it is its sheer complexity, as it combines many different forms weaved together seamlessly across an astonishing (for the period) 7 movements involving 6 different keys following a circle-of-thirds, all combined with many changes of tempo throughout its considerable length (about 40 minutes). Despite its complexity it remains accessible throughout, partly by use of quite simple melodies and the use of submediant keys which generate a relaxing atmosphere in its slow movements. I find the third (“andante”) movement heavenly for these reasons. 

I don’t wish to change the subject unnecessarily but I should say that, although I rate Beethoven’s late SQs very highly (objectively, they’re probably the best ever written) I still have a very high regard for Schubert’s SQs. For anyone new to this genre or still gaining familiarity, after gaining familiarity with Haydn and late Mozart SQs (K 421 et seq.), I would recommend trying Schubert’s SQs Nos 12-15. As with all chamber music, a good choice of Quartet is vital, and for Schubert you can’t do much better than the Takas SQ. Moving on from this late Classical era, the next best SQs are those by Schumann and Brahms. Beyond that, I'm personally not all that interested, although I quite enjoy some Janacek chamber music.


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## nefigah

Thank you for the recommendations and informative replies


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## starry

Weston said:


> The SQ No. 14 is like an intimate symphony for me, all the more so since the version in my collection is a string orchestra setting by Leonard Bernstein. I do not find this blasphemous, but rather think the texture of a string orchestra more appealing to my ears than the scritchy squawkiness of solo strings. If it is popular, it could be the epic scale of the piece that attracts people. Isn't that the one with 7 movements? Also I think its structure is out in left field compared to the other quartets.


The 13th quartet is at least as much out in left field maybe if you take it as originally written. It's complicated history of having had an alternate finale written for it may have put it at a slight disadvantage to op131. I'm not sure that the Grosse Fugue makes much sense if just played on its own.

Op127 seems to get underrated alot as it's the first of the last group and perhaps because it's a relatively happy piece as well. It's probably the one to start with.

When you are ready to understand them then you can, until then maybe you can't. When I first heard them I didn't fully get them, but soon after I did. If you can follow his earlier quartets (particularly those after Op18) you can follow these.


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## Mr Chewie

This work, along with the other late quartets, seem to strike the perfect balance between the cerebral and the emotional...powerful stuff.


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## Fugue Meister

nefigah said:


> So whenever a "favorite SQ" poll comes up (and sometimes favorite piece polls in general), the famous C# minor quartet is ubiquitous, often at or near the top of people's lists.
> 
> I'm pretty new to the genre, previously only really familiar with a few of Haydn's SQs (which I quite like). After hearing so much about the late Beethoven quartets, I bought a recording (the Lindsays, which seemed to get good reviews).
> 
> I guess I feel like I'm missing something, like I skipped some essential part of musical development that would allow me to properly enjoy these works. Well, I shouldn't say I don't enjoy them, but they aren't anywhere near favorites of mine yet. I'd like to "drink the kool aid," as it were--really I'd just like to appreciate them at the level they deserve.
> 
> Are the late quartets an acquired taste? Does appreciation of them tend to presuppose intimacy with the earlier SQs? Any thoughts?


Since this was a few years ago I'm curious what you think of them now? It took me about a decade to fully appreciate and love them. So where do you stand on the late quartets now nefigah?


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## GreenMamba

You're hitting the old threads hard, FM. Just sayin'.


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## Manxfeeder

This is one of my favorite pieces, and I hear it more as a spiritual than a musical statement. And, personally, I think the Lindsays reflect very well its spiritual content.


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## Fugue Meister

GreenMamba said:


> You're hitting the old threads hard, FM. Just sayin'.


Is that an unwritten "no no" here? Or just message board etiquette I'm unfamiliar with?

I'm new GM. Just sayin'.


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## Krummhorn

Fugue Meister said:


> Is that an unwritten "no no" here? Or just message board etiquette I'm unfamiliar with?
> 
> I'm new GM. Just sayin'.


Admin Note: We have no objections to older threads being resurrected ... many times the OP will have subscribed to the thread and may be notified that there is another submission to the original discussion, which in turn sparks more activity for the site.


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## Fugue Meister

Many thanks Krummhorn. Leave it to me to revitalize the ancient threads.


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## Manxfeeder

nefigah said:


> Does appreciation of them tend to presuppose intimacy with the earlier SQs?


I hope not. They were the first string quartets that ever grabbed me. From there I branched out into Webern, then Jacob Obrecht. I then got into the Razumovskys, then Opus 18, then filled in the gaps. Haydn's quartets came next.

Looking back, it sounds more like that's the way Doctor Who would do it.


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