# Who Killed Beethoven?



## Guest (Sep 4, 2007)

Did someone kill Beethoven? A Viennese pathologist claims the composer's physician did - inadvertently overdosing him with lead in a case of a cure that went wrong.

Other researchers are not convinced, but there is no controversy about one fact: The master had been a very sick man years before his death in 1827.

Previous research determined that Beethoven had suffered from lead poisoning, first detecting toxic levels of the metal in his hair and then, two years ago, in bone fragments. Those findings strengthened the belief that lead poisoning may have contributed - and ultimately led - to his death at age 57.

But Viennese forensic expert Christian Reiter claims to know more after months of painstaking work applying CSI-like methods to strands of Beethoven's hair.

He says his analysis, published last week in the Beethoven Journal, shows that in the final months of the composer's life, lead concentrations in his body spiked every time he was treated by his doctor, Andreas Wawruch, for fluid inside the abdomen. Those lethal doses permeated Beethoven's ailing liver, ultimately killing him, Reiter told The Associated Press.

``His death was due to the treatments by Dr. Wawruch,'' said Reiter, head of the Department of Forensic Medicine at Vienna's Medical University. ``Although you cannot blame Dr. Wawruch - how was he to know that Beethoven already had a serious liver ailment?''

Nobody did back then.

Only through an autopsy after the composer's death in the Austrian capital on March 26, 1827, were doctors able to establish that Beethoven suffered from cirrhosis of the liver as well as edemas of the abdomen. Reiter says that in attempts to ease the composer's suffering, Wawruch repeatedly punctured the abdominal cavity - and then sealed the wound with a lead-laced poultice [...]

_ By GEORGE JAHN, Associated Press Writer Tuesday August 28, 2007_

You can read the full article here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6881383,00.html

or, if you prefer, here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070828/ap_en_mu/who_killed_beethoven


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

I heard somewhere, maybe even on this forum, that Andrea Luchesi killed Beethoven...


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

Well, at least Beethoven died when we think he did. Of course, this is very much unlike Mozart who did not, in fact, die in December of 1791, but ran away from Vienna, went into hiding, and then returned some years later as the Danish ambassador Nissen, living for many more years.


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## Kurkikohtaus (Oct 22, 2006)

Good Lord... what have we started? I think admin will lock this baby down real soon.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Kurkikohtaus said:


> Good Lord... what have we started? I think admin will lock this baby down real soon.


This thread has been quiet for a couple of days. You could've left it as it was.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2007)

I didn’t want to start a controversial thread at all (... even if I admit that its title is a bit provocative, and I peg your pardon for that. )

In fact, what we know about that issue is that: 1° Four months before his death in March 1827, Beethoven began suffering from excessive abdominal swelling, possibly due to cirrhosis; 2° studies of his hair have conducted that Beethoven also suffered from severe lead poisoning.

What else? I think we will never know.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Alnitak said:


> I didn't want to start a controversial thread at all (... even if I admit that its title is a bit provocative... )
> 
> In fact, what we know about that issue is that: 1° Four months before his death in March 1827, Beethoven began suffering from excessive abdominal swelling, possibly due to cirrhosis; 2° studies of his hair have conducted that Beethoven also suffered from severe lead poisoning.
> 
> What else? I think we will never know.


Kurkikohtaus (in post No.4) and I were not referring to Beethoven or his death. See posts No.2 and No3.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2007)

Yes, perhaps, but I threw you a line, didn’t I?


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

I mean, a little humor is OK, isn't it? I'm not seriously putting forth the Mozart/Nissen theory, but I couldn't resist the crack in any case, especially after the Luchesi comment...  

In any case, it's not like you were outrightly stating "This is true." You were simply putting it on the table for interest. Thanks for the article


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## Keemun (Mar 2, 2007)

This makes me wonder how many people have been killed by well-meaning, yet ultimately erroneous, medical theories. Bleeding, leeches, abdominal puncturing, etc. It gives new meaning to the phrase "practicing medicine."


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2007)

I could also have continued with Mozart, and asked you what killed Mozart...

I could have said that, in a letter Mozart wrote to his wife 44 days before he fell ill, he explained that he ate pork cutlets.

His symptoms, including a fever, rash, limb pain and swelling, match those brought on by trichinosis, and trichinosis has an incubation period of about 50 days…

You can read the full article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/1382537.stm

But of course, I didn't. hmmm… I apologize, if I did…


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

Leporello87 said:


> Well, at least Beethoven died when we think he did. Of course, this is very much unlike Mozart who did not, in fact, die in December of 1791, but ran away from Vienna, went into hiding, and then _returned some years later as the Danish ambassador_ Nissen, living for many more years.


That's a _classy _reappearing indeed.

If I'm ever resurrected I would like to be the Cultural Aggregate for the Embassy of Bulgaria.


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

Nice choice, Manuel!

If I were Mozart, I would've pretended to die in 1791, run off for a years, and then return to Vienna in 1797 to be "reborn" as Franz Schubert. Then, in 1828, I would claim Schubert had died, run in hiding to Hamburg, and then come out of hiding a few years later in 1833, as Johanes Brahms. 

Hmm.. this theory does explain quite a bit, doesn't it??


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

If you are _versatile _enough you don't need to hit the shadows during 1828-1833... you can then impersonate _Spontini _for a while.


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