# Weber: classical or romantic?



## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

According to the internet he(Carl Maria von Weber) is sometimes considered a classical composer but sometimes a romantic composer? What do you think. I don't own much of his works but they don't sound terribly romantic too me; at least not his claritet chamber music.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Like Beethoven, he's a transitional figure. I'd say his style is more Classical, however influential he was to Romantic music


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Not classical. Most of his major works are romantic to the bone, the classical forms and some composing techniques prevail just like their prevailed in music of Schumann and Mendelssohn, hardly classical composers, to greater degree for sure - after all, he was from much older generation. Doesn't change anything though, classical mastership doesn't interfere with his essentially romantic qualities in any way. Listen to E Flat Major piano concerto (Liszt's favoruite), _Der Freischutz_, piano trio or some collection of his overtures.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

He's one of the earliest Romantic composers and Der Frieschutz is one of the first Romantic pieces.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Nobody wrote for the clarinet like Weber. His two clarinet concertos and concertino are superb.

His Hungarian Rondo for bassoon is terrific too.

Sounds a bit more to the Romantic side than the Classical.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

Thanks. Since we are on the subject of eras; Edward Elgar, would you consider him a Romantic or 20th century/modern composer?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

DrMuller said:


> Thanks. Since we are on the subject of eras; Edward Elgar, would you consider him a Romantic or 20th century/modern composer?


Romantic. Modernism is about style more than time period, so Richard Strauss and Rachmaninoff remained Late Romantics to the end of their lives (along with lesser-known figures like Pfitzner and Schmidt), while all of Stravinsky's mature works are modernist in style, even those composed while Elgar was alive.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

The labels really don't have much meaning, since they encompass a huge swath of composers under one umbrella term. So the uniformity of the term is obscured by the diversity to which it applies.

But, since you asked--

Weber's a tricky one to classify. His instrumental music and piano music resound brilliantly of the early Romantic, to my ears at least; as hpowders mentioned, his clarinet works are magnificent! His Polonaise Brilliante could _almost_ be mistaken for early Chopin.

As for Elgar, that's also a tricky question. For me, just as the Classical Era doesn't represent a discrete musical language that simply ended for the Romantic Era to step it, I also can't quite place at what point a composer is considered a Late Romantic or Early Modern composer. It will be interesting to hear what our fellow TC members think.  What do you think?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I agree with Mahlerian about Elgar. I can't think of a single piece he wrote that was in a modernist vein. It all sounds entirely late/post-Romantic to me.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

violadude said:


> I agree with Mahlerian about Elgar. I can't think of a single piece he wrote that was in a modernist vein. It all sounds entirely late/post-Romantic to me.


I'm pretty sure I know what you mean there - and agree; but that hyphen probably doesn't do what you think it does.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Has anyone heard of the composers Sor and Carulli? They did alot og guitar works. If so, would you consider these 2 composers classical or romantic?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Classical, I´d say, perhaps with a hint of transition. But am certainly no expert in guitar music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

DrMuller said:


> Thanks. Since we are on the subject of eras; Edward Elgar, would you consider him a Romantic or 20th century/modern composer?


Elgar is a throwback to an earlier time. He would be comfortable floating first class on the Titanic.

For me, Elgar's greatest works are the Enigma Variations, Cello and Violin Concertos. Firmly and unabashedly Romantic.


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## Lovemylute (Jul 17, 2014)

DrMuller said:


> ... Has anyone heard of the composers Sor and Carulli? They did alot og guitar works. If so, would you consider these 2 composers classical or romantic?


Definitely classical.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

Lovemylute said:


> Definitely classical.


Have you heard de Fossa's Guitar Trios?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

violadude said:


> He's one of the earliest Romantic composers and Der Frieschutz is one of the first Romantic pieces.


Yup. Don't think because some musicologist historians slapped some dates and names on the different eras that deceased composers would all of a sudden comply to accommodate those later born historians, and neatly fit in those given categories 

Beethoven and von Weber were contemporaries, their dates are near parallel, yet Beethoven (people will argue, with good justification) that Beethoven remained 'classical / classical mindset / classical procedure' from his first to his last. (It is safest, maybe the most accurate, to say Beethoven went from conventional classicism to extremely adventurous classicism

Von Weber was a romantic from the get-go, the first, truly. Happened to live in the date spectrum called 'classical.'

... and Violadude is entirely correct about von Weber


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Weber - romantic. Pure and simple.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Weber - romantic. Pure and simple.


I guess that settles it then


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I don´t really agree about Weber as a pure romantic. From what I know, the _symphonies_ for example are very classical. Not much tendency to dissolvement of form or emotionalism there. Whereas the knight-and-princess, symphonic-poem-like programme notes of the _Konzertstück_ hints at Romanticism and its medieval reverie, and _Der Freischütz_ too, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konzertstück_in_F_minor_(Weber)
http://www.allmusic.com/composition/symphony-no-1-in-c-major-j-50-op-19-mc0002366513


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

joen_cph said:


> I don´t really agree about Weber as a pure romantic.


I suspect the problem is (as usual) the lack of an agreed definition of terms. I'm happy calling anything before 1828 "classical" and anything after that "romantic." Simple, huh? Otherwise, you have these unruly composers writing in both idioms, separately or even combined!

Pathetique Sonata, anyone?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> I suspect the problem is (as usual) the lack of an agreed definition of terms. I'm happy calling anything before 1828 "classical" and anything after that "romantic." Simple, huh? Otherwise, you have these unruly composers writing in both idioms, separately or even combined!
> 
> Pathétique Sonata, anyone?


_Pathétique_ was suggested as a subtitle by Beethoven's publisher when Beethoven brought the sonata to him. 
Luigi said, "O.K. -- Sure."

Mozart K.466, 2nd movement, marked _Romanza_, complete w Sturm und Drang middle section, and this the piano Concerto with which Luigi was more than a little obsessed, anyone?


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