# Weber on Beethoven



## Jaffer (Jun 28, 2016)

I know that Weber was at first dismissive and then openly hostile to Beethoven, but I have been unable to find any detailed discussion on the matter. Can someone please enlighten me about what grounds Weber had for his attitude towards Beethoven? I mean whats the story? Any quotes from Weber or any links to articles/essays on the subject would help tremendously. Thanks!


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## Rambler (Oct 20, 2017)

I believe he declared Beethoven ripe for the madhouse after an early performance of the seventh symphony - but he went on to conduct the piece himself. I think it was the last movement that caused the remark.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

As a young man of 23 Weber was accused of imitating Beethoven in some of his works. In a letter written in 1809 to one such accuser, composer and music publisher Hans Georg Nägeli, Weber recoils at the idea that he might be copying anyone and defends the distinctiveness of his music. He tells Nägeli that he could never stand on common ground with Beethoven because their “views differ so radically”. Weber strives for “clarity, restraint, and feeling”, whereas Beethoven needs to “rein in his exuberant fantasy”, clearly organize his ideas and cease to be always striving for novelty. On the other hand, Weber freely acknowledges “Beethoven’s great genius…the fiery, almost incredible inventiveness of which he is possessed”.

Weber came to admire Beethoven personally. He regularly played and conducted Beethoven’s music, and was outraged when the Prague public failed to appreciate ‘Fidelio’. The mature Weber visited Beethoven in 1823 and requested that Beethoven look at the score of his opera ‘Euryanthe’ and make whatever changes he thought advisable, in order to, as Anton Schindler writes, “redeem it from the unfortunate reception that its first performance had elicited”. The only complaint Weber had on that occasion was that Beethoven turned down his request after looking at the score on the grounds that any revisions by another hand should have been made before the opera had been performed. It would be interesting to read the exchange of letters between the two men but unfortunately they are lost.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Rambler said:


> I believe he declared Beethoven ripe for the madhouse after an early performance of the seventh symphony - but he went on to conduct the piece himself. I think it was the last movement that caused the remark.


My 1980 Grove says there's no evidence that he actually said this.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Rambler said:


> I believe he declared Beethoven ripe for the madhouse after an early performance of the seventh symphony - but he went on to conduct the piece himself. I think it was the last movement that caused the remark.


Given some of Beethoven's alleged behaviour he might have been ripe for the madhouse even without the seventh symphony!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's the criticism that Beethoven received from his German contemporaries, including von Weber's. I found the long PDF very enlightening to read. Be sure to check the index for von Weber:https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=unpresssamples


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Weber's criticism of Beethoven's 4th Symphony, kind of amusing, is on my music page:

https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/weber-on-beethoven-s-fourth-symphony

Regarding the 7th and "ripe for the madhouse", Weber was supposed to have been speaking about the grinding chromatic ostinatos in the coda to the first movement. Now it is said that his comments were mythical. I think it's a cover-up!

As to the last movement, Beecham had the best remark: "What can you do with it? It's like a lot of yaks jumping about."


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