# The piano miniature connoisseur's thread



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Thread for talking about your favorite piano miniatures. For a time it was symphonies that interested me, and sonatas, but I think the piano/keyboard miniature is where my greatest interest lies. What should people who are REALLY interested in the piano miniature repertoire, know about?

Edit: this thread started as another idea, but developed into something different. General discussion about your favorite piano miniatures, as well as about the definition of the piano miniature is welcome.

We can do this by composer, or form, or mixture of form.

We should also define piano miniature. Probably any standalone piece that isn't horrendously long, excess of 8 minutes is pushing it. What do you think? Or is it more specific, like little Mazurkas and Polonaises, and Nocturnes, excluding grand things like Ballades?

First some big names, guys who were prolific and of high quality in the genre:

Chopin is probably top of the list for "should know," surprisingly, I did not consider this for the longest time, but I'm trying to remedy that.

Rachmaninoff wrote plenty of genius in this vein. 

Of course, many of you know that I argue for Medtner being vastly undervalued, the Skazki can't be missed if you love piano miniatures.

Scriabin, Poems are his original form and early pieces in the vein of Chopin.

Liszt, though Mr. Liszt sometimes gets a little grand and turns his so called miniatures into tone poems...

Mendelssohn, we can't forget the Songs Without Words.

Brahms, sets of varying pieces.

Alkan, another lesser known, that would be good for the mainstream to know a little about.

Debussy, don't know him as well frankly.

Various Russians, Lyapunov tends to be high quality in large spots of his repertoire though he was no revolutionary at all. Balakirev, always looking over Lyapunov's shoulder, more original. Lyadov, very brief and solid. Arensky, can be good at them sometimes. 

Schubert-I know there are plenty, like the Impromptus.

Edit: Somehow I forgot to mention Schumann. I guess I wasn't thinking. A lot of very original styles.

There's the Baroque, perhaps that can be another discussion, plenty of french baroque, Bach, Telemann. Sonatas became more prevalent in the classic era.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Well since you don't know Debussy as well, let's start there!

I love his preludes, each one explores a new, groundbreaking and unique kind of sound for the piano at that time. They can be explosive in their "gestures" or very deeply lyrical at their core.





















Apart from the preludes, here are some other Debussy miniatures that I like quite a bit


















The piano miniatures that I like from Debussy, apart from the preludes tend to be the ones where he sounds like he's just letting his tie loose and having tons of fun.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

As for Scriabin, this has to be one of my most beloved melodies of all time. It is just so beautiful and it was the first piece by Scriabin I could really get "into"


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

My favorite Scriabin Mazurka, or one of my favorites is this one, very pretty melody, not so melancholy, sweet 




Edit, and a favorite Scriabin Poeme of mine


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Also I am surprised you didn't include Schumann, With all the talk about him lately! He is one of "the guys" when it comes to piano miniatures.

Some other composers of what I would call piano miniatures not on your list

Szymanowski (one of my favorite piano composers):

Here's his early "Chopin" style, much like how Scriabin started out














This looks like it is a 14 minute piece and not qualified to be a piano miniature, but they put all 12 etudes in one video. It is really 12 piano miniatures. This is his later, impressionism meets Schoenberg kind of style...






Here is his last style based on the folk music of a certain people, but the name of that people escapes me at the moment.










Also there is Ligeti, he might be too modern for you Clavi, but his set of etudes should not be missed and are similar to Debussy's Preludes in terms of groundbreaking piano technique and sound.


















And a personal favorite of mine:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> Also I am surprised you didn't include Schumann, With all the talk about him lately! He is one of "the guys" when it comes to piano miniatures.
> 
> [/url]




For crying out loud! I can't believe I forgot! I love Schumann but suffer from a lack of owned recordings.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> Some other composers of what I would call piano miniatures not on your list
> 
> [/url]


Plenty of others that need mentioning. Faure, Ravel, Field, list goes on.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Plenty of others that need mentioning. Faure, Ravel, Field, list goes on.


As far as Ravel's beautiful piano miniatures go, here are a few of my favorites.

Poetic as **** lol:





other favorites:


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

violadude said:


> As far as Ravel's beautiful piano miniatures go, here are a few of my favorites.
> 
> Poetic as **** lol:
> 
> ...


speaking of the great maurice, i think his pieces are not only miniatures, they are gems, jewels, fine polished diamonds, a Ravel piece is some kind of exquisite object that you put in a cristal box and never touch it again...

I agree with the pieces posted by viola, and with these (no piano, just wanted to remember some of the great pieces maurice wrote, skip my comment if you want ):











and of course:






(actually the two last ones are for piano originally)


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Oh by the way Clavichorder, this post puts me at the same number of posts as you.  

That is all.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I think miniatures are fascinating too, and this is no doubt for a similar reason to my fascination with the short story as a literary form - the compactness is amazing when you consider what is condensed to fit in them.

I'm really tired at the moment, so I can't comment right now, but be sure to keep this thread alive so I see it again!


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

The Valses Poeticos by Granados! Great Salon stuff.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)




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## Beethovenrox (Dec 10, 2011)

Thats hilarious!!! LOL


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

Chabrier - Smetana - Dvorak - Tchaikovsky - Lyadov - Albeniz - Saint Saëns - de Falla - Satie......


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I like the Beethoven bagatelles op.126; particularly no.2 in g-minor and *no.4 in b-minor*:






For some reason the poster put no.6 in g immediately after; no.4 stops at 5:00.


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## David Power (Aug 20, 2017)

Fascinating thread. Just wondering if any of you know this CD? https://www.naxos.com/ECard/GrandPiano/GP789/


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Grieg, Bartók and Ireland haven't been mentioned yet - I thought they deserved a namecheck as piano miniatures make up a significant chunk of their respective outputs.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

_"After Chopin, Moszkowski best understands how to write for the piano, and his writing embraces the whole gamut of piano technique."_ -Ignacy Paderewski

I found his melodies unforgettable, I had once bought a copy of his book of etudes (but sold it away long ago).





^this one is reminiscent of Liszt's Harmonies du soir
















Mozkowski Etude Op. 72 No. 11 - Horowitz
Moszkowski Etude Op.72 No.1


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Prokofiev's Visions Fugitives would be top of my list.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> Prokofiev's Visions Fugitives would be top of my list.


And Frederic Chiu is never dull.

Liszt also wrote several sets of great "impressionistic" miniatures (a different way to look at his transcendental etudes).


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

We all know the classic sets of "miniatures" - Chopin, Debussy, and Rachmaninoff's preludes, Brahms's late pieces, Schumann's cycles. But how about Medtner's Skakzi?






I also like a lot of Faure's miniatures (beats me why they tend to get passed over in the Romantic repertoire) and Shostakovich's lesser-known earlier set of 24 preludes (without fugues), which have great charm despite their extreme brevity.


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

^ I love Medtner. You hear a lot of Medtnerian idioms from his concerto and sonatas in Skakzi, which make the work feel less original. After extensive (almost exhaustive) listening I think his friend Rachmaninoff is still a much better composer (especially as a continuation of Chopin) when it comes to writing miniatures.

I also find Ravel's miniatures (e.g. Valses nobles et sentimentales and Le tombeau de Couperin) to hold up better than Debussy's after repeated listening (for decades). This is very personal but the superficiality of Debussy's prelude and images gets old (unless the performance is wildly imaginative).

Janacek's overgrown path is worth listening to for it's effortless poetry. A few years ago I heard Louis Lortie performing this set in a recital and it stuck with me. It feels like a mixture of Grieg (less the sugar) and Schumann (less the neurosis).


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## 8j1010 (Aug 29, 2020)

Recently I've been listening to Schubert's dances, specifically "36 Originaltanze". I don't know why I like the third dance so much but I do, I can't stop playing it at the piano. I really like the Db octave in measure 3, and the detachment of the last chord in measure 3. 








Also Chaminade's piano works. I've been learning Feuilles d'Automne (Autumn Leaves) for the past few days, and I really like the piece. I would definitely recommend the album of all of her piano roll recordings (https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kkefCUJP6-IwJw7u8xrshnHySVvhLcvNI). If you like Chopin, or other Romantic piano composers, then you'll like Chaminade.

Of course there are Grieg's lyric pieces, I would definitely try to listen to all 10 volumes.

Gottschalk's piano works are fun and exciting, especially Ojos Criollos (



).

Chopin waltzes are great, so are all of his other piano pieces but I specifically like the Waltzes.

A little bit of an obscure composer, and there aren't a lot of recordings of his music, but I really like Fritz Spindler from the music that I've heard. There's not a lot of recordings, so if you want to get into his music you might have to play the pieces yourself. (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQUFHSXTUAzJgIVANlWY3ZCs6r08hBCYu)


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Balakirev's piano music isn't all of premier quality, but there are plenty of gems there. Try the "Mélodie Espagnole".


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