# Sharing obscure favourites 3 "XL" (READ FIRST POST)



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The third edition, similar to the first two (links: 1 2), but in a XL edition for longer pieces. The next edition will be a regular one.

This idea is a spin-off from Tchaikov6' Hall of Fame thread. I'm looking for 4-6 TC members who are interested to broaden their horizon by listening to other people's choices for obscure favourites (and sending in one of their own).

It goes as follows if you want to be a part of this:

1) You select a piece of classical music you love and that you think many here may not know. *It has to be between 30 and 80 minutes*, and it cannot be an excerpt from a larger work (e.g. not a movement from a symphony). It has to be on YouTube or similar sites that do not require registration and/or subscription.

2) *You send me a message with your choice and the link. Do not post your choice in the thread*.

3) I'll collect all submissions and decide when to finalize this phase (max 6 submissions).

4) I will post all submissions with the links.

5) Everyone gets two weeks to listen to the submitted works and post a few lines on each in this thread (including your own submissions) in any sequence you like. No essays required, but please include whether it was new to you and overall, did you like it or not (or indifferent) - things like that. Feel free to post them one by one rather than all in one post.

There's no voting, there's no winner. This is just about sharing.

If you did not send in one of the compositions for this thread, you are still more than welcome to post your opinions on the selected works.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Two submissions received so far.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Four submissions received. I'll leave this open for another day or two.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Last chance. I will start this 24 hours from now.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

OK, we'll run with five (including mine).

In alphabetical order:

Allegro Con Brio: Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor (link)
Art Rock: Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet (links: 1 2 3 4)
Becca: Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs" (link)
Kjetil Heggelund: Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía (links: 1 2 3 4 5 6)
Open Book: Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian' (link)

Have fun!


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor*

Atterberg is my first choice. Was in the mood for a piano concerto! I don't think I've heard the composer before even though I've know his name for a long time. I thought maybe he is a Swedish Rachmaninov, but he sounds very different. Sometimes the brass remind me of Bruckner, but very, very different from that too. I read a comment on youtube: "Why always compare Kurt Atterberg with other great composers??? He is Kurt Atterberg..." Haha! Kind of zooming in on his style I guess and that is late romantic with many key changes and maybe some unusual scales in melodies. I can understand that he has his own style. I'm happy to hear this! I would like to hear some chamber music from him too.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

*Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B Flat Minor*

Lately one of my musical interests has been discovering piano concerti that have fallen to the wayside in popularity. Next to the symphony, it is probably my favorite genre, and I have been amazed by the amount of gleaming gems that have not yet entered the repertoire alongside the big Romantic warhorses. This concerto is probably the greatest musical discovery I have made so far this year. Though I am a bit more lukewarm on Atterberg's cello concerto and symphonies, his brilliant writing for the piano and mastery of dramatic tension and lyricism alike in this work captivated me from first note. It is up there with a shamefully neglected lot of late Romantic/early 20th century piano concerti that include Dohnanyi, Medtner, Martinu, Scharwenka, and Moszkowski. The first movement is sweeping and epic, sort of a cross between Brahms and Rachmaninoff with a just-chromatic-enough harmonic language, but it is never either too grandiose or too sentimental. The second movement I find simply heavenly, possibly my favorite movement in any piano concerto after the one from Beethoven's "Emperor." Nocturnal, intoxicating beauty. There is then a brief cadenza bridge to the finale, which is a breathless romp of pure fun that concludes in a major-key takeover. I hope that everyone else will be able to appreciate this work as much as I do!

*Rating: 5/5,* cream of the crop and probably one of my top 100 compositions.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet*

Please don't tell my clarinetist/conductor friend (or the OP) but the idea of 30+ minutes of clarinet and string quartet is enough to put me off my food  My first reaction when starting to listen was that it is the kind of thing that one hears in some swanky hotel palm court, well done and pleasant but, at least to me, not particularly memorable. Not something that I would care to revisit.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet*

I'm familiar with this work and I like it very much. Having been a clarinet player in a previous life, I tend to have a warm spot for clarinet chamber music. Fuch's clarinet quintet begins with a lovely 1st movement of moderate tempo; I find it very comforting. However, I am not as impressed with the other movements. My favorite clarinet quintets are from Mozart, Reger, Weber and Brahms. I don't consider the Fuchs to be in that league, but I give it a play every few months.

Rating: 3 1/2 out of 5.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet*

Fuchs is one of my romantic favourites. Great music for background to painting.
I like his Cello Sonatas the best. This Clarinet quintet is a bit too airy(loose) but it may be the particular recording/mastering.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs"*

New to me? The composer, no, I have about a dozen of Howells CD's. The work? No, I have a Chandos CD that includes it, but it's been a while since I last listened to it. The idea behind the suite is interesting, all five movements are celebrations of Howells and his musician/composer friends (Benjamin, Bliss, Gurney, Warren). For context, it's important to note that this work was composed before the start of the Great War, that would see Warren killed and Gurney's life destroyed.

The overture (named after Howells himself) is substantial, takes about a third of the total work, and would work very well as a separate concert piece. A nice variety of moods and pace, at times energetic, at times relaxed. The second movement "Lament" (Gurney) is in the best British pastoral tradition, but with sufficient sad undertones to warrant its heading. The scherzo (Bliss) is short and leaves me a bit puzzled, also because of its sudden end. The fourth movement is titled "Mazurka, alias Minuet" (Warren) - for me, it just dances along without raising much interest. The concluding March (Arthur Benjamin) is far better, with a confident ending. All in all, it was a pleasure to listen to this one again. For the overall evaluation, I did not let the two less impressive shorter movements detract from the strength on the other three, and it just comes into the bottom of the "essential" score.

Artrockometer score: 
5/6 "essential", a must-have for my CD collection.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

*Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

Coming back from Granada recently it amazes me how living music turned into "classical" looses all the spark that it originally has. The guitar parts here are professionally played but have no feeling of Andalusia left.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian'*

The first two movements are pretty nice. Fun to recognise well known melody bits. Finale gets kind of boring or ordinary.
I am very familiar with gypsy music and never understood Brahms and Dvoršak take on it. Monti I can take any time.
This concerto sounds fresh and has some of that fiddling energy I like.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

*Fuchs - Clarinet Quintet*

This composer is totally new to me. I am a huge fan of woodwind chamber works and clarinet chamber works in particular - the Mozart and Brahms quintets are two of my all-time favorite compositions, chamber or not. So I dove into this work with excitement. The general atmosphere is very mellow and layed-back - there is almost no sense of romantic angst (like Brahms), nor is there the unforced lyricism of the Mozart quintet or the rich textures of Reger's work. It all just sounded very safe and unremarkable to me, and afterwards, I had a tough time remembering what exactly happened in each movement. The writing for clarinet tended to always stay comfortably in the middle of the instrument's range, producing a homogeneous sound to my ears. That said, it is very nice music, and it flows nicely from bar to bar. But it's much more like background music to me, and didn't at all seem to justify the length.

*Rating: 1.5/5*


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor*

The first movement of this piece seemed to go on and on loudly but with little memorable and left me repeating Hamlet "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." The second movement, however, was a different matter, as is the finale, something worth getting to know. In reading about it I see that there was a 6 year gap between writing the first and the second/third movements which leaves me thinking that Atterberg really wasn't quite sure what he was doing with the piece at first and needed time to let the ideas gel. I only wish that he had revisited the first movement. So an interested, albeit mixed introduction to this composer but enough so that I will probably investigate some of his symphonies.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor*

The first part - Pesante allegro was rather difficult for me to sit through. Very confusing, kind of mess of references to Tchaikovsky, strange harmonies and orchestra passages.
The second - Andante came on like revelation. Clear and beautiful. Now the harmonies are not strange any more but interesting. It gets rather nordic in the end.
The third - Furioso starts with slamming orchestra again but develops into pleasant collection of references. Only the march-like end turns me off a bit.

So I would listen the Andante again any day. The rest - not sure(although there is a very nice piano passage in the middle of the III).


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

*Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs"*

allmusic describes him as "English pastoralist." Indeed it is very painting-like with lots of color, lots of detail, lots of light and shadow. And good flow. Maybe it is not the most interesting of the time but good solid work nevertheless. Made me to dig out Elgar and Malipiero CDs. So thank you for that.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian'*

If one needs an example of why it is not good to prejudge a work by the program notes, then this posted link/recording is a good case. I read the notes and had rather a sinking feeling... "_a grave, melancholy character - all of them, it need hardly be said, earnest in purpose and aiming at the ideal._" While there maybe some validity to that in other works but it was a pleasure to discover that it seemed to have little relevance to this work. Overall this was a well constructed work that did indeed seem to move logically from start to end, a sense of a journey taken. Having said that, I do think that the middle movement is the weakest link, but only by comparison. Definitely something to return to.

Incidentally, during the extended first movement cadenza, I was thinking about the conductor and musicians sitting there and waiting, and remembered something said by a train driver (US - engineer) when asked if he got bored sitting waiting for signals to turn green - it went approximately like this "Are you kidding? Getting paid to sit there and do nothing :lol: "

P.S. I did like the cadenza!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

The composer is not new to me (I have 2 Naxos CD's with symphonies and other orchestral works), but the selected work is. I was especially curious how Palomo would handle the difficult task of balancing guitar and orchestra. The first part starts with an interesting orchestral introduction, with occasional castanets-like sounds setting a Spanish atmosphere. When the guitar starts the orchestra almost falls silent for a few minutes, then more interaction starts, although the guitar wisely goes silent at the occasional louder orchestral outbursts (a concept used throughout the work). All in all an effective start, although I found the end a bit sudden. The second movement is in the first half more dominated by the guitar, and sees the more festive atmosphere replaced by a more meditative one. The orchestra creates a more aggressive feeling for a while in the second half, before a very calm closure. A more uptempo start in the third movement, very dance-like in line with its title. Beautiful guitar work in this movement, and good interactions with the orchestra. It's long at over 13 minutes, but there's plenty of variety in pace and mood - my favourite of the six. The fourth movement is ultra-short and a bit scherzo style - for some reason it made me smile, although there's nothing funny about it. The fifth is perhaps the most nocturnal of the six, starting with solo guitar and orchestra joining in. A beautiful piece. The final movement starts upbeat, the guitar joining in the same mood after about a minute. We definitely go out with a bang, not a whisper.

There's not a great amount of good works for the combination of guitar and orchestra, so where does this more obscure piece fit in? I liked it. Very much. Great recommendation. But....at over 40 minutes, it is a lot to take in one session.


Artrockometer score:
4/6 "desirable", I like to have it in my CD collection.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

*Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 B's"*

The background of this work looked promising. Howells is a composer I had never heard of that it seems I should have heard of. He was an organist who contributed much to Anglican church music. I liked the story behind this suite, almost like a different version of the Enigma Variations. And, like Art Rock points out, it's important to note the brewing wartime circumstances of its composition. So how 'bout the music? Throughout, I thought the orchestration and melodies were fairly interesting, though it seemed to borrow much from the English pastoral school, which I am not a big fan of. I wish Howells would find his own voice a little bit more. That being said, there certainly were some lovely parts - the wistful, yearning second movement and the spirited march-finale providing a convincing finish to the suite were the highlights for me. One of my big issues are the two little movements in the middle - the "scherzo" was more like a subdued minuet, and the "mazurka" was pretty trivial. This made the work seem very structurally deficient and top-heavy. Then again, maybe it's not meant to have a continuous structure considering it's simply a suite. As mentioned, I generally just don't care for this type of pastoral style. Still, Howells manages to inject the music with a good variety of ideas and emotions, and though it didn't hold my interest all the way through, it at least made me want to see more of what the composer offers.

*Rating: 2.5/5*


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

A very interesting work by a composer that I had never heard of before. While I agree that it is a tad bit long, whenever I thought that it was lapsing into the easily* predictable or longueurs (e.g. the 3rd section), the composer would introduce an interesting twist that moved things on nicely. It is definitely preferable to yet another Rodrigo piece (even though I like the Fantasía para un gentilhombre.) A keeper.

* lazily


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian' 
*
Neither the composer, nor the work is new to me - I have it in the (uncut, 45 minutes) version by Elmar Oliveira and the London Philharmonic on an HMP CD. I remember liking it, but not in the league of the big hitters under the romantic violin concertos. Let's play it again.

After a rather melancholic orchestral opening, the solo violin finally joins in after 4+ minutes. The atmosphere remains the same, and evokes Hungarian steppes and gypsies playing, sometimes agitated, sometimes mournful. Around 11 minutes there's a beautiful melodic part for orchestra only - the violinist needs a short break to prepare for the highly virtuoso passages that follow? Around the 19 minutes mark, there is a great cadenza, leading to the end of the movement with great interplay of orchestra and violin. A real tour de force, and in spite of 24 minutes the first movement never outstays its welcome. The second movement (Romanze) spices up a general 'sweet' feeling at places to keep it interesting. The finale starts at a breathtaking pace, especially for the violin, and does not relent. I know nothing about playing the violin, but this sounds devilishly difficult. The end comes in a satisfactory way.

In sum, for me this is an excellent romantic violin concerto and frankly even better than I remembered (thanks for the inclusion!). Yes, it is not at the level of the absolute top in that genre (Brahms, Mendelssohn, Bruch 1, Tchaikovsky), but it is not that far off. Would I use 1/2 points, this would score 5 1/2. But as I do not:


Artrockometer score:
5/6 "essential", a must-have for my CD collection.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet
*
My own submission. Austrian composer Robert Fuchs (1847 - 1927) is practically forgotten nowadays, but the usually so critical Brahms thought very highly of him ("Fuchs is a splendid musician, everything is so fine and so skillful, so charmingly invented, that one is always pleased", Wikipedia). Moreover, the list of his students is jaw-dropping: it includes Enescu, Mahler, Wolf, Sibelius, von Zemlinsky, Korngold, Schmidt, and Schreker. His oeuvre is not enormous, but includes orchestral works,chamber music, and organ compositions.

Personally, I always enjoy listening to his clarinet quintet (one of my favourite chamber music combinations). Yes, it is not of the level of Brahms or Mozart, but I prefer it over the likes of Weber and Reger.


Artrockometer score:
5/6 "essential", a must-have for my CD collection.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

We're almost half way and at 48%. I'll prod a bit.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

*Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs"*

Lots of English music has been unheard by my ears and I've never even heard of Howells...I read a biography on oxfordmusiconline while listening. I can understand he was predicted a very bright future after writing this the same year he turned 22. To me the music sounds innocent and very English. Don't know if English and innocent are close in meaning  It is pleasant to hear. I'm sorry that I wasn't so thrilled hearing this. Maybe his religious music is more interesting for me.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian' *

The work is new for me as is the composer. Surprisingly, the very long 1st movement is highly enjoyable - excellent melodies, fine construction, and ample variety. After that, it goes downhill. The 2nd movement is much too syrupy for my constitution, and the final movement just sounds like virtuosity for its own sake.

Truth to tell, romantic-era violin concertos are not my thing.

Rating: 2.5/5


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian' *

Violin heroes also write music. He probably knew all the major concertos of his time, so he could easily make one himself. I just read that this recording has cut bits and pieces out...Well, in my teens I loved violin concertos but right now I want to hear Vulfpeck! So in my listening I was waiting for it to end...Terrible plan to hear it now. Sorry again. 18 year old Kjetil would love this


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

*Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

I'm generally iffy on classical guitar, but I like Spanish music. All of the composers in this round are new to me, and Palomo is one whose name I heard for the first time here. The structure of this work is very interesting- at first, I thought it would be a full-on guitar concerto, but neither the layout of movements nor the orchestra-soloist interplay is really appropriate for that designation. Instead, it is more like a free-form rhapsody that shifts often between moods. The guitar is often alone in the spotlight in several cadenza-like sections, but there are also long stretches for orchestra alone. Either way, I liked the subtle Spanish impressionism and pathos throughout. I do think that Palomo could have used orchestral color a little more effectively, and sometimes it seemed as if he was waffling between wanting the guitar and the orchestra to play the main role. In the second half, the music seemed to drop off and lose focus until the final movement, which was a whole lot of fun. It reminded me of Ravel's _ La Valse_ in its manic, almost doomed dance rhythms building up to a huge climax. As it built up, I found myself tapping my foot and bobbing my head, and it had won me over by the end. So, despite some less-than-inspired portions that dragged a lot; I count the work as a success considering it drew me into the delicate, evocative, fragrant atmosphere of the Spanish nighttime.

*Rating: 3/5*


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

*Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs"*

My first reaction was, typical pastoral English music. Music designed to evoke scenes of deer frolicking, or simply, moods. Not my cup of tea. Nevertheless, I noticed that this piece is well done and polished. And what's more, heartfelt. It got better with repeated hearings. 2nd movement is fine, there is beauty and wonder to it. The rest doesn't engage me full time but has many nice moments. I don't know why the last three movements are marked scherzo, mazurka, and march. I guess they are, but there is not a strong feeling of rhythm in this music, it's kind of soft in that way. I'd also like to know the story behind the titles of the movements, are they the nicknames of friends? I guess this exceeded my rather low expectations. I'm surprised there seem to be no other recordings of it.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The names of each of the movements is the nickname for Howells and 4 of his friends when they were at the Royal College of Music before WW1. Each of them is intended to be musical sketches along the lines of Elgar's Enigma Variations...

1. Overture: Bublum - (Herbert Howells)
2. Lament: Bartholomew - (Ivor Gurney)
3. Scherzo: Blissy - (Arthur Bliss)
4. Mazurka alias Minuet: Bunny - (Frances Warren)
5. March: Benjee - (Arthur Benjamin)

Of these you may have encountered music by Bliss & Benjamin. Frances Warren was missing in action during the Battle of the Somme in 1916. Ivor Gurney, also a poet, was invalided out of the service after a gas attack. He had mental issues prior to the war and early in the 20's was declared insane and was institutionalized.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

*Joachim - Violin Concerto No. 2 "Hungarian"*

My first thought when I saw this work featured: _Uh-oh!_ The violin concerto is one genre I have never been able to get into. I like the concerti by 5 B's (Bach, Barber, Bartok, Beethoven, Brahms), Sibelius, and a few others, but I would never choose any of them as desert island music since I simply don't care much for the sound of the solo violin. A 45-minute Romantic violin concerto? Yikes. Of course, I had heard of Joachim in relation to Brahms and his position as one of the greatest violinists of the 18th century, but had not heard any of his compositions. Here we go. The first movement is truly epic (26 minutes in the Rachel Barton Pine/CSO recording I listened to) but mostly stays in the same mood - relatively stormy with frequent outbursts, a rhapsodic gypsy feel with frequent virtuoso theatrics. By far my favorite part was the cadenza, which I can only imagine is both heaven and hell on earth for violinists! The second movement didn't grab me, I found its principal theme bland. And the finale was certainly exciting, with those folk dance rhythms and firecrackers from the soloist. I didn't mind this concerto. But it is probably not one I would choose to hear again since I vastly prefer other types of concerti, and I didn't think it showcased concerto writing at its finest - the emphasis was clearly on providing a showcase for the soloist rather than a delicate interplay with the orchestra. It was very interesting, though, to know that it came 20 years before Brahms's famous concerto. I can definitely detect a lot of the rhapsodic gypsy influence of Joachim in Brahms's much better-crafted music. And I am surprised that it is as unknown as it is - despite my indifference to it, I would still take it over Tchaikovsky, Bruch, and Mendelssohn for Romantic violin concerti.

*Rating: 2.5/5*

I must admit that this round was somewhat of a slog for me. I now realize that I am perfectly content sticking with the 30-minute limit going forward. Longer works require a lot of commitment from those who don't care for the music. I found myself skipping around a lot in these works. Even though I somewhat enjoyed them all, I didn't feel that any of them warranted the length. Still, it's always wonderful to discover fellow listeners' favorites and share thoughts. My final ranking would have to be:

1. Atterberg
2. Palomo
3. Joachim
4. Howells
5. Fuchs


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor*

If the piano concertos of Schumann, Brahms, Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky, and Prokofiev aren't enough for you, here we have something which sounds like all of them. Like like most of the music of non-top tier composers there is a mixture of good music and repetitiveness/weak development. The opening theme of which is heard again at 11:40 is good, big, romantic, cheesy in a good way. 8:05-8:22 is a great passage. 9:42 was compared to Brahms but kind of spins its wheels. The 2nd movement is the best. 20:37-21:31 is a big Rachmaninov moment leading to a nice hushed ending. Least inspired is the final movement, where a final movement is typically triumphant this has run out of steam a bit. It seems to reflect the Rach 2nd third movement in places.
I have developed affection for this piece. It's fun and sometimes much more. I will go back and hear it again on youtube now and then.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

*Herbert Howells - Suite for Orchestra "The 5 Bs"*

And so to my selection...

I am not much of a lover of the so-called English pastoral tradition, a term which I think is an over-used catch-all. That being said, there are some that I like and many that I can do without. The Howells, however is not one that I consider to fall into the category, it owes much more to the Elgar of the Enigma Variations. It is a work from his early 20s in which he did musical sketches of himself and 4 of his friends, one that really shows off his orchestration skills. Of the 5 pieces I will agree that the 3rd and 4th are the weakest but the other 3, particular the 2nd describing Gurney, are very well-done. It is known that Ivor Gurney had ongoing mental problems long before they became overt and Lament does a wonderful job of capturing a troubled and elusive character.

Needless to say it is high on my list ... 2.718281828459045... / 3


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet Quintet in E-Flat Major, Op. 102*

Clarinet pieces are not usually deep, this is sunny and fun in the first movement and it holds my interest as the clarinet and string parts weave their pattern. The clarinet frequently scats while the strings play long lines. 2nd mvt (allegro scherzando) is wonderful, has lovely outpourings of melody such as you might find in Brahms or Dvorak, and it's the most concise movement. The shadows come in later, a Brahmsian 3rd mvt (echoes of one of his serenades for orchestra) has the clarinet sounding occasionally mournful. The 4th movement starts with a Dvorakian melody and it has a lot of ideas. The whole piece could maybe use some trimming down but it is very good. The composer understands how to write for the clarinet. I wonder if the string players love playing it. I want to hear other performances.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor *

I'm very familiar with Atterberg's music. The 1st movement of the piano concerto is big-boned music with orchestral parts I enjoy greatly; however, I did feel that the piano contributions were more for support than a partnership with the orchestra. The 2nd movement andante offers lovely melodies, and the final movement has a macabre element that I find impressive.

Overall, it's a fine work, but I do prefer most of Atterberg's symphonies and his two string quartets. Concerning Atterberg's concertos, I don't find that the piano concerto hold up well to the cello concerto which is my favorite work by the composer.

Rating: 3/5


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

erki said:


> *Joseph Joachim - Violin concerto #2 in D Minor, Op.11, 'Hungarian'*
> The first two movements are pretty nice. Fun to recognise well known melody bits.
> 
> I am very familiar with gypsy music and never understood Brahms and Dvoršak take on it. Monti I can take any time.


So these melodies weren't all written by Joachim? Are they folk melodies?
Who or what is Monti?


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

*Joseph Joachim - Violin Concerto #2 in D Minor Op 11. "Hungarian" - My Selection*

I dislike violin concerti in which the soloist slashes at her instrument with pyrotechnics to make up for unmemorable music and we're left with nothing but loose horsehair in the end. I've been seeing/hearing too many of those recently.

I love this concerto. Listen to all those bewitching melodies. They are skillfully sequenced into economical movements which have neither excess repetition nor filler. The orchestra is mostly a respectful accompanist but comes to the fore often enough with nicely chosen details of orchestration. The fireworks I expect (and often dread) from violin concerti are there but aren't the main point. The third movement may be the weakest, (and lo, that's when the fireworks increase) but 3rd movements usually are. I'm not bored for a moment.

It's a lean work, something great composers can create but lesser ones often don't. Joachim and Brahms were best buds. As Joachim was technical advisor to Brahms with his concerto, Brahms might have influenced this concerto.

I think this is better than Schumann's violin concerto. I won't say it is better than others by great composers, but there are a couple of those warhorses that I enjoy less than this.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

*Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

This seems an effort to subvert the Spanish guitar tradition with modern sounds and merge a quiet instrument with more powerful forces. A lot of extremes - Short, long, traditional, more iconoclastic. Loud percussion, soft guitar. Almost all guitar, then no guitar all within the same nocturne (2nd one). There is little unity within most of the pieces. A lot of it seems to go off in random directions and seldom catches fire for me. I don't see much unity across the six nocturnes, either. Are they really meant to be heard together? The brief 5th nocturne was the best, it was the most traditional, focused, and concise.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

erki said:


> *Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*
> 
> Coming back from Granada recently it amazes me how living music turned into "classical" looses all the spark that it originally has. The guitar parts here are professionally played but have no feeling of Andalusia left.


I know what you mean. I have youtube set so that it follows everything up with pieces it feels are related. This guitarist's other work (traditional Spanish music) kept following the nocturnes and had more life to it.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

We're at 88% completion, just three more to go (including one by myself....). Nicely on schedule still.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Kurt Atterberg - Piano Concerto in B flat minor*

New to me? No, I have about a dozen of Atterberg CD's, including one with the piano concerto (by Love Derwinger and the Radio Philharmonie Hannover des NDR under Ari Rasilainen on CPO). To be fair though, although I can clearly recall several of his symphonies, the cello concerto and the horn concerto, I could not recall much about the piano concerto. Here we go then.

Listening to the first not very exciting few minutes, I would have guessed in a blind test that it was composed around 1900, rather than 1935. The first really interesting moment for me comes around the 5 minutes mark, when the piano stops playing for a minute or so - I really like the orchestration here. When the piano resumes, it impresses me more than the first few minutes - good interaction with the orchestra, nice variety of moods for the rest of the movement. I do get the impression near the end that the orchestra is running away with the melody for a while, but the conclusion is good. The Andante opens very peacefully and beautifully melodic and maintains that mood with some variation throughout the movement. For me the best part of the concerto (for me, the slow movement usually is). The finale is marked 'furiosa' - maybe it is the performance rather than composition, but I would not agree with that term. There's a nice flow to it though, with some fine piano lines, working to a satisfying end, and I like it much better than the first movement.

So where does it rank for me? I like the late romantic style in general, but the piano is not one of my most favourite concertante instruments. Even the Rachmaninoff war horses do not rank higher than "desirable" for me. I would rank the Atterberg in that range as well (in spite of the weaker first movement), which puts it one level below the most famous works by Emil von Sauer and Franz Xaver Scharwenka (link) in a similar idiom.

Artrockometer: 4/6 "desirable", I like to have it in my CD collection.

=============================================================

This concludes my listening for the current thread. Like others, I found the 30-80 minutes XL format a bit much, even though none of the submissions were disappointing. If there's sufficient interest I'll run another one in the future (just PM me), but most likely I will not take part myself. The coming week I will start a new thread for the regular 30- minutes version.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

> So these melodies weren't all written by Joachim? Are they folk melodies?
> Who or what is Monti?


Vittorio Monti:



Folk melodies indeed. You find these in the works of Brahms, Dvoršak, Zoltán Kodály, Franz Lehár.
Look for Taraf De Haidouks 




and especially my favourite 




and more Hungarian: Arany Zoltán


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

*Sign up for the fourth edition (back to 30 min max) is underway (link)*


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

*Robert Fuchs - Clarinet quintet*

Just put this on. I came to think at once, that music in this style is what I've liked all my life. Never heard about the composer, so some surfing to be done (on a wave of a son of a gun). Aha! Surfs up! I like the music, it's nice to have more alternatives than earlier music that I know well. Reading when he was active made me think he was an old-fashioned out of time composer, but don't really care. I won't mind hearing more music of Fuchs. Is that pronounced like I think??


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Is that pronounced like I think??


Guessing what you think... no. More like Foox.

PS: try the five serenades, available on Naxos. Lovely music.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Sorry about that...I will definitely hear some more! Am I being difficult when I say that many neglected works usually suffer from a bit boring performances?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

With most neglected works, you have got to take what you can get. There are 1697 complete Beethoven cycles on CD's, but obscure works usually are recorded only once, often by enterprising labels that often rely on less reliable orchestras and conductors etc for budget reasons. If you're lucky, labels like Naxos and CPO take an interest and put better versions on the market.

PS: the 1697 is of course just a guess.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

*Lorenzo Palomo - Nocturnos de Andalucía*

The last one and the one I picked. About 20 years ago my wife and I went to see Pepe Romero & the Oslo Phil. and unsurprisingly he played the Aranjuez. He is the king of that concerto (yes he is!). Surprisingly he played another guitar/orchestra piece that I thought was really fantastic. Years passed and I had forgotten who the composer was. I'm glad I can search the net for easy access to everything I forget and don't know. Happens every day! When we heard Palomo live I thought it was a bit modern, which I've gotten very used to now. One thing I feel about guitar concertos is that the orchestra often sounds like they're in a laundry room, but not this one. The orchestra has just as much to say as the guitar. In that way I think it's unique. Since I've gotten used to modern music, this work sounds really old fashioned like many Spanish composers do. They are very occupied with flamenco it seems. Maybe this concerto sounds like Rodrigo, had he lived another 100 years!


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

erki said:


> Vittorio Monti:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But none of this proves that Brahms and Joachim didn't compose their own melodies. Yes, they are in the Hungarian style but aren't they original melodies?


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

I have not conducted a study to find the exact melody snippets relating to particular folk song. And I don't care really. I do not argue that their music isn't "original". What annoys me somewhat is that when you compare the actual folk tunes to classical based on these tunes it comes out kind of dead and artificial. It was a fad of high society of that time to bring peasant music into royal courts. In doing so it got kind of civilised.
Since it is written music it can be played by performers who never pay attention to the roots of it. Joachim is different in this matter. He was excellent violinist himself so he actually played these tunes most likely and it got transferred to his notes as well.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

erki said:


> What annoys me somewhat is that when you compare the actual folk tunes to classical based on these tunes it comes out kind of dead and artificial. It was a fad of high society of that time to bring peasant music into royal courts. In doing so it got kind of civilised.
> Since it is written music it can be played by performers who never pay attention to the roots of it. Joachim is different in this matter. He was excellent violinist himself so he actually played these tunes most likely and it got transferred to his notes as well.


Sounds like you feel the same way about this music as you did about flamenco music in the guitar nocturnes by Palomo:

'Coming back from Granada recently it amazes me how living music turned into "classical" looses all the spark that it originally has.'

I agree with you more about the guitar music, I love what Brahms does with Hungarian melodies. I read a great biography of Brahms where the author (Swafford) noted that Brahms liked and employed this style of music extensively. Disappointingly, Swafford never provided an explanation for it, but now hearing the Joachim I think maybe it was popular with a lot of classical composers then.

You make a good point about both musical styles being appropriated and probably losing something in the process.


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