# Missa Solemnis



## tahnak (Jan 19, 2009)

Beethoven composed this in 1823. He had set his first Mass in C Major . Op,86 several years earlier. Missa Solemnis is considered as one of the three greatest masses ever written. The first is Bach's B Minor Mass, then is this Missa Solemnis and the third is Bruckner's great F Minor Mass.
Missa Solemnis can be classified as a massive choral symphonic work. It is one of his major achievements. He wrote it at the height of his powers. It is scored for the full classical orchestra including the trombones, soloists and four part chorus. It is scored in five movements.
I have heard Klemperer earlier with the Philharmonia but I will stick with Herbert Von Karajan after I heard his performance with the Berliner Philharmoniker.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I've always been impressed with how "human" it is - from the beginning, when the great choir cries out "Kyrie," then drops out, leaving the individual alone before his maker, to the end, with the tremulous plea for peace, it covers all aspects of man's response to God. There are so moments like this - the Gloria, with everyone singing glory at the top of their lungs, with the orchestra sounding like they're stomping their feet and clapping their hands, while angels skitter up and down Jacob's ladder; the tonally ambiguous Sanctus, and the breaking in of the violin; the operatic contrasts in the Credo. 

Though it is a beast to sing, it definitely qualifies as "great" - in conception, execution, and inspiration.


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## tahnak (Jan 19, 2009)

Manxfeeder said:


> I've always been impressed with how "human" it is - from the beginning, when the great choir cries out "Kyrie," then drops out, leaving the individual alone before his maker, to the end, with the tremulous plea for peace, it covers all aspects of man's response to God. There are so moments like this - the Gloria, with everyone singing glory at the top of their lungs, with the orchestra sounding like they're stomping their feet and clapping their hands, while angels skitter up and down Jacob's ladder; the tonally ambiguous Sanctus, and the breaking in of the violin; the operatic contrasts in the Credo.
> 
> Though it is a beast to sing, it definitely qualifies as "great" - in conception, execution, and inspiration.


Very well written. You have hit upon the essence of the total work. I have learnt and understood it rather late in life but am happy that I have grasped its spirit. 
I came back to it no doubt and patiently heard it and marveled at it.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I have John Eliot Gardiner's version. It's the only version of it I have. 10/10.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm a big fan of this also! I absolutely love the Agnus Dei from it, I could listen to that all day lol. There is a really great version on youtube, conducted by Christian Thielemann...its probably my personal favorite.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have three Missa Solemnis sets. Favorite is Ormandy.


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

I have this version by Solti:









I must say, though, that this work of Beethoven's has never really "grabbed" me. I've listened to it perhaps 5 times in the 7 years I've owned it, and keep expecting to enjoy it more at some point. I find myself enjoying parts here and there but wondering when it's going to end. Seems to go on and on. It seems to me that many of the choral parts are forced and don't fit well with the music.

I've concluded I'm not really a fan of this work, though I love much of Beethoven. Just me, I guess.


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## Pestouille (Feb 21, 2012)

poconoron said:


> I have this version by Solti:
> 
> View attachment 3450
> 
> ...


I come to the same conclusion than Poconoron, it seems to me that the missa is only a trial and the 9th an achievement... But it's not a damned work, far away from that. I am listening from times to times this one, which seems a reference:


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

I have two versions: Rudof Barshai's one with the Russian NAtional Orchestra, and Leonard Bernstein's with the Concertgebouw. The latter is as good as it can be probably. I like the work but it has failed to become one of my favorites.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Pestouille said:


> I come to the same conclusion than Poconoron, it seems to me that the missa is only a trial and the 9th an achievement...


Blasphemy!  Of course, said with a friendly wink  because I respect your opinion but don't necessarily share it  and realizing there's a chance I could be wrong .


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pestouille said:


> ...it seems to me that the missa is only a trial and the 9th an achievement
> View attachment 3500


One of many Everest-like summits this composer built, with a Herculean effort despite all his natural genius, from the ground up.

I'm not going to get out my surveying equipment to see if the Missa Solemnis is a few meters more or less high than the 9th symphony. That is pretty much a quibble over which of two identical height Mount Parnassises of slighty different shape are the highest. (When it comes to that, some of the 'diminutive' string quartets are up there, too.)

It is THE pinnacle of his most masterly use of counterpoint, period. That is yet just another opinion, of course.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I have John Eliot Gardiner's version. It's the only version of it I have. 10/10.


I just bought this one. Let's see. I usually have a difficult time with Beethoven music and period instruments but let's see. Bernstein's version in DG is big and solemn (I wonder how will the Klemperer be like, his Bach's St Matthew Passion is just in a different world in terms of sheer size and weight), but I need to listen to another perspective.


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## humanbean (Mar 5, 2011)

I've heard the Bernstein, Gardiner, and Herreweghe performances. The latter appears to have better feedback on Amazon than Gardiner, but I like both versions. Bernstein's is good, but the choral fugue at the end of the Credo just isn't meant for such large vocal forces, so there isn't very much clarity compared to the HIP versions. But it's certainly worth checking out.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Pestouille said:


> it seems to me that the missa is only a trial and the 9th an achievement...


Beethoven himself did not think so. Apparently he considered the Solemn Mass his best work. I wouldn't argue (though there are certainly plenty of strong contenders).


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