# van Zweden Bruckner



## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

Having completed another audition of his SACD recordings of Bruckner 1-9, I would rate all except no. 4 as excellent. That one is taken too fast for my taste, compared with Thielemann, Wand, and Celibidache.

Superb sonics as well.

Highly recommended!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Sounds very interesting. I've yet to hear this set but I've just started to listen to Nezet-Seguin's Bruckner cycle. I listened to the 2nd Symphony this morning And was very impressed. The last full cycle of Bruckner that I auditioned was Lim's cycle. That had some very good moments but was let down by some ragged ensemble at times. You couldn't blame the committment of the orchestra though. What do you think of the Nezet-Seguin cycle, Merlinus? Have you heard it, Granate?


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Yes Merl. It was like a year ago when we were discussing SACD cycles merlinus and I. I think it was by August 2017 when I finished listening to the whole van Zweden cycle and I was very impressed for the cleanness of the sound and a different range of quality in the performances. I saw the weakest points in the 2, 3, 7, 8 & 9. The SQ is incredible, although the performances are sometimes too standard for my taste. Excellent buy for SACD. Let's see how the Japan remaster of the Karajan cycle works out (Limited SACDs of Symphonies 4-9+TD available)

I will audition the Nézet-Séguin cycle together with Thielemann and Russell-Davies.


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

@Granate: I look forward to your review of the Thielemann cycle. I have 4, 7, and 8. The first two are magnificent, but #8 suffers from poor recording, despite it being on SACD. I listened to his #4 again last night, and for me it is still at the very top, both in terms of performance and SQ.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

merlinus said:


> I look forward to your review of the Thielemann cycle...


And I look forward to January 2019! It's very likely that No.2 is recorded this Autumn with the Staatskapelle Dresden, but they still need to make the transfers to Audio and CD. Then the publisher will design the box... etc.

I don't know if ATMA was in a hurry to publish the YNS cycle already. Thielemann is a tough competitor and a name that sells nowadays. They would need a margin to sell their Bruckner cycle before a big label merchandises their own with interviews and articles all over the CM sites. Has anyone tried it? It's on *Spotify* and *qobuz* for stream but I'm busy reviewing Beethoven cycles.


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

Have you posted any of your LvB cycles reviews?


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

BTW, The HR Audio site reviewer disliked YNS, in terms of interpretation and orchestra.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

merlinus said:


> BTW, The HR Audio site reviewer disliked YNS, in terms of interpretation and orchestra.


Individual performances have garnered mixed reviews, online. The 7th has had quite a few negative reviews whilst the earlier symphonies were warmly and enthusiastically welcomed. I can't comment on them all personally as I've only listened to one (very good) account of the 2nd. I'll let you know what I think soon, Merlinus.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

merlinus said:


> Have you posted any of your LvB cycles reviews?


I already finished Table 1! (8 Mono Cycles and 6 HIP cycles) I'm slowly coding the posts.



merlinus said:


> BTW, The HR Audio site reviewer disliked YNS, in terms of interpretation and orchestra.


I saw a bold, cruel three-star review in Amazon UK. I have faith in YNS. He is only 43 and already has the backing of two big CM labels. I didn't like early Christian Thielemann either and now he is the brightest star in the Austro-German repertoire once he is 60 and conducts in Dresden and Bayreuth.


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## rw181383 (Aug 4, 2017)

Merl said:


> Individual performances have garnered mixed reviews, online. The 7th has had quite a few negative reviews whilst the earlier symphonies were warmly and enthusiastically welcomed. I can't comment on them all personally as I've only listened to one (very good) account of the 2nd. I'll let you know what I think soon, Merlinus.


I know that this thread is about van Zweden's cycle, but had to quickly chime in on the YNS cycle. I recently purchased the YNS cycle and listened to the 1st a couple of times. I was very disappointed. In fact, the only reason I listened to it again was to make sure I wasn't making a hasty judgement. First off, YNS uses the Vienna revision which in my least favorite Bruckner revision. Regarding the interpretation, there is no drive or power (a better recording would help very little). Everything feels static. The 2nd movement wallows and takes forever to get through. I could go on and on with details, but this is not the thread to elaborate.

To make sure I wasn't imagining things, I listened to the Wand (Vienna version-RCA), Abbado (Vienna version-DG), Jochum (Linz Version-DG), and because of this thread, streamed the Jaap via Tidal (Linz version). What a difference!! YNS doesn't come close.

So far YNS's 2nd is an improvement, but not by much. This could be a tough cycle to get through.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

rw181383 said:


> I know that this thread is about van Zweden's cycle, but had to quickly chime in on the YNS cycle.


One Amazon Review: "If Karajan is the gold standard, YNS's Bruckner is crypto-currency from Nigeria." Ouch!


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> One Amazon Review: "If Karajan is the gold standard, YNS's Bruckner is crypto-currency from Nigeria." Ouch!


That's why I said it was cruel. No conductor can dare to compare to Herr Karajan and neither should critics. In Bruckner the orchestral sound is key.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'll reserve my judgement till I've listened to more. I rarely listen to what reviewers think.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

He only did 7-9 with the VPO, but Giulini recordings are my current favorites


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

merlinus said:


> Having completed another audition of his SACD recordings of Bruckner 1-9, I would rate all except no. 4 as excellent. That one is taken too fast for my taste, compared with Thielemann, Wand, and Celibidache.


I would hate to hear anything that is slower than Celi!


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

Celi's SACD recording of no. 4 is spacious, elegant, powerful, and has superb SQ. Better than the one on his EMI recording.

Have you heard Thielemann and SKD?


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

Back to van Zweden. It will be interesting to see how he fares in New York. Hopefully he can return the orchestra to its glory days of yesteryear with conductors such as Mitropoulos and Bernstein.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

merlinus said:


> Back to van Zweden. It will be interesting to see how he fares in New York. Hopefully he can return the orchestra to its glory days of yesteryear with conductors such as Mitropoulos and Bernstein.


Well, Decca didn't help with the recording of Beethoven 5/7, way to much manipulated music.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

merlinus said:


> Back to van Zweden. It will be interesting to see how he fares in New York. Hopefully he can return the orchestra to its glory days of yesteryear with conductors such as Mitropoulos and Bernstein.


Mitropolous? In retrospect he seems like a legendary Conductor. At the time his Critics couldn't wait for his ouster and were hoping his replacement would "return the Orchestra of the glory days of (fill in the blank)...."


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Handling the New York job requires more than Muscianship. The Conductor has to be able to create a buzz, an aura of excitement, and then be able to win the Local Media, and then finally succeed with the National and International Media. And then there is a Shelf Life, in that initial conquests need to be built upon.
Gilbert had a good initial buzz but was lacking in the dynamic department. Masur, Mehta, and Boulez all had strong resumes and strong accomplishments off the podium that helped secure their initial tenures but in the fast NY scene fell prey to “what have you done lately” phenomenon and faded over time. Bernstein was a genre unto himself.
I don’t think that things bode well for Van Zweeden, but I hope to be proven wrong


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

That is exactly why a number of conductors, including Barenboim, refused the post. Lenny had all the requirements to make it work, but obviously no one after him.

And it basically destroyed Mahler.


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

Triplets said:


> Mitropolous? In retrospect he seems like a legendary Conductor. At the time his Critics couldn't wait for his ouster and were hoping his replacement would "return the Orchestra of the glory days of (fill in the blank)...."


His replacement certainly did -- Bernstein! And it might be that Mitropolous, being openly LGBTQ before the necessary changes in public awareness, was unduly criticized.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

merlinus said:


> That is exactly why a number of conductors, including Barenboim, refused the post. Lenny had all the requirements to make it work, but obviously no one after him.
> 
> And it basically destroyed Mahler.


It didn't do Barbirolli much good either!


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

merlinus said:


> That is exactly why a number of conductors, including Barenboim, refused the post. Lenny had all the requirements to make it work, but obviously no one after him.
> 
> And it basically destroyed Mahler.


I am not sure that destroyed Mahler. I think he had a much rougher time in virulently anti Semitic Vienna. A rheumatic Heart valve and his wife's infidelity were the more proximate issues, imo


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

merlinus said:


> His replacement certainly did -- Bernstein! And it might be that Mitropolous, being openly LGBTQ before the necessary changes in public awareness, was unduly criticized.


Bernstein constantly undermined him, including disparaging his sexuality, which became very ironic when Bernstein's secrets were let out of the bag


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