# ...Which remastering of the Karajan Beethoven '63 Symphonies



## ethan417 (Jun 10, 2020)

First - I want to thank those of you who have generously taken the time to help me begin my journey to explore the Beethoven Symphonies.

I am in the market for a copy of the Karajan '63 complete Beethoven Symphonies.

As best I can figure out, there are 2 modern remasterings of these wonderful recordings.

1999 catalog number 463 088-2

2018 SACD (5 CDs) + 1 Blueray Disc.

Is there a noticeable improvement in the SACD remaster. 
The is a big price difference between these two sets.
Although I am sensitive to price I do prefer to own the best sounding of the two.

Thank so much


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Have a read of the thread linked below. It might answer some of your questions.

Which Karajan Beethoven Cycle is Best, and why?


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## ethan417 (Jun 10, 2020)

Thanks Merl
My question - the new SACD has been remastered 20 years after the 1999 sets.
Certainly the technology has improved tremendously in that time.
But it really depends on how much care and effort DG put into the remastering process.
Does the recent remastering improve the listening experience sufficiently to justify the price difference about $25 ($54 vs $30).


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

ethan417 said:


> Thanks Merl
> My question - the new SACD has been remastered 20 years after the 1999 sets.
> Certainly the technology has improved tremendously in that time.
> But it really depends on how much care and effort DG put into the remastering process.
> Does the recent remastering improve the listening experience sufficiently to justify the price difference about $25 ($54 vs $30).


Someone else will have to answer that one as I've not heard the SACD remastering. Anyone?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

A while back I purchased Karajan's 1963 Beethoven symphonies as a single Blu-ray, without the five CDs, at a very reasonable price (I got mine used, but in excellent condition).

While I haven't compared it to earlier editions, I'm happy with the sound, which is presumably among the best available. That may be an option for you to consider.

Of course, if you don't have a Blu-ray player . . . never mind.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I can say, having both the Blu-Ray and the remastered discs included in the 1960s box set, there is little difference between them. My belief is that the remastering done for the box set is the same as was used for the Blu-Ray release.

This version has both a CD pressing and a Blu-Ray pressing of the same remaster.

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Blu-ray-Audio-Limited/dp/B00KKXOT54/

This version has the remaster which is also contained in the 1960s box.

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-9-Symphonies-Karajan-Janowitz/dp/B000056OBA/

To my ears (and my hearing is pretty good), there is not any appreciable difference between them. Get what is cheapest and works with your equipment.

But.....

if you want the best sound and the best interpretations, and you have a Blu-Ray player, I think this disc:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-Dolby-Atmos-Blu-ray/dp/B07H62PFS4/

Beats 1963, hands down.


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## ethan417 (Jun 10, 2020)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I can say, having both the Blu-Ray and the remastered discs included in the 1960s box set, there is little difference between them. My belief is that the remastering done for the box set is the same as was used for the Blu-Ray release.
> 
> This version has both a CD pressing and a Blu-Ray pressing of the same remaster.
> 
> ...


Hi
Thank you so much for taking the time.
This is very helpful and exactly what I wanted to know.
Many thanks


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

ethan417 said:


> First - I want to thank those of you who have generously taken the time to help me begin my journey to explore the Beethoven Symphonies.
> 
> I am in the market for a copy of the Karajan '63 complete Beethoven Symphonies.
> 
> ...


As far as I'm concerned, there is no redemption for the 1963 recordings because of their "classic" two-microphone engineering technique. This is OK for "purists" whom are into this sort of recording, but not for me. It's always going to be a stereo AAD mix.

The later 70s cycle is far superior sonically, as it used multiple microphones and was "mixed" for the final transfer. This also means that if it is remastered/remixed for Blu-ray and SACD, these individual tracks can be transferred to digital and mixed again, either as stereo or multi-channel (ADD), both of which will sound superior to a regular AAD mix.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

millionrainbows said:


> As far as I'm concerned, there is no redemption for the 1963 recordings because of their "classic" two-microphone engineering technique. This is OK for "purists" whom are into this sort of recording, but not for me. It's always going to be a stereo AAD mix.
> 
> The later 70s cycle is far superior sonically, as it used multiple microphones and was "mixed" for the final transfer. This also means that if it is remastered/remixed for Blu-ray and SACD, these individual tracks can be transferred to digital and mixed again, either as stereo or multi-channel (ADD), both of which will sound superior to a regular AAD mix.


I agree generally with the superiority of the 77 sonics. I can't say for certain whether it is because of the quadrophonic recording (which is how 77 was originally conceived). I think it was just because of more advanced microphones and tape stock. Analog recordings of the late 70s are some of the best sounding orchestral recordings of all, because of how mature the technology was. They spank early digital (DDD) recordings for the most part. Modern DDD, though, has caught up and probably surpassed both AAD and ADD. IF you have doubts, listen to Sony's Shostakovich set with Michael Sanderling and the Dresden Philharmonic. Or Diogenes Quartet's recording of the Schubert String Quartets on Brilliant Classics.

The '63 cycle still sounds pretty good, though. Listening to the 1960s Box set remaster over my good headphones really opened my eyes (ears) to it. I think good stereo recording is good enough for human hearing. 99% of my listening is in stereo (the other 1% is the 77 Karajan Beethoven cycle over 5.1 channel sound).


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd like to hear that Shostakovich/Sanderling. Maybe we can start a thread about good sonics, for those people who can hear these things.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

It's youtube of course, but they are available on line.


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