# The Names of Composers



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I've noticed a certain prejudice I have when it comes to exploring music I haven't yet heard or know very little about. Often the names of composers have influenced my decision whether to listen to them or not and this has had some adverse effects! For example: *Arnold Bax*, *Robert Simpson* and *Franck* have always been some names which at first glance appear to be rather "dull" according to my prejudice, and I keep convincing myself that I can't judge their music solely on their name as they all seem to have their fans! However *Khaikosru Shapurji Sorabji* is a composer whose music does not float my boat, but his name is undoubtedly awesome and is probably the main reason I keep coming back to give his music a try.

Does this sort of prejudice happen to any other listeners here?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Not here. By the way, you omit the first name of Franck, whereas that name is shared by at least two composers (César and Eduard).


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Does this sort of prejudice happen to any other listeners here?


Not me. I am allergic to Bruckner not because of his name, but his music. Talk about 'dull'.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

I have prejudice against any Schumann who doesn't have the common decency to spell their surname with 2 Ns.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Morimur said:


> Not me. I am allergic to Bruckner not because of his name, but his music. Talk about 'dull'.


This is about what I was about write, names matter very little to me, the music is everything!

/ptr


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2014)

Chris Dench's name gets me a little, for instance, but I find I'll come to love the name if necessary


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It's an interesting thought, COAG. At least composers don't 'sex their names up' as often as actors or rock musicians in order to draw more attention to themselves. Peter Warlock changed his, but I think his original name of Philip Heseltine is actually the better of the two! 

In one respect, perhaps British-sounding names can come across as more, for want of a better word, 'exotic' for some people of other races than they do for us? 

And then there is the translation angle. For a British perspective of this, the names John Brook and Joseph Green sound somewhat nondescript when compared to the German and Italian equivalents, Johann Bach and Guiseppe Verdi.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The name could be 'hpowders' for all I care. If the music is genius, I listen. If it's hack I don't.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm more inclined to avoid dull music than names. I love Cesar Franck. As for Bax, I haven't listened to the symphonies enough to decide if I like them. However, I do recommend his piano sonatas.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

No they don't affect me, with the exception of Stevie Raylph Vaughan Williams. Well, both of them.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Only some names have had an affect on me.

Ralph Vaughan Williams - Has this elegant air to it
Edward Elgar - Sounds kind of dull, which doesn't reflect his music
Igor Stravinsky - With a name like that, I would have never expected 12-tone[ish] works!
Olivier Messiaen - I expected his music to be more lyrical rather than atmospheric
Giovanni Sgambati - Thought his music would be lighter and happier, like salon music


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

It does happen to me to judge them because of their names _before_ hearing their music. What turns me off are common names such as John Adams; unpleasant/boring names like Louis Spohr, Cesar Cui, and also names similar to other composers/famous people like William Schuman and Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber :lol:. However after listening to them I don't care about that, it's the music that decides wether I like them or not.


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## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Der Leiermann said:


> It does happen to me to judge them because of their names _before_ hearing their music. What turns me off are common names such as John Adams; unpleasant/*boring* names like Louis Spohr, Cesar Cui, and also names similar to other composers/famous people like *William Schuman *and Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber ( :lol: ). However after listening to them I don't care about that, it's the music that decides wether I like them or not.


This just about sums it up for me :lol:


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I pretty much listen to everything so I don't discriminate against any composer honestly.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

As long as the music's nice, I don't really care about the name. Regarding Sorabji, as mentioned in the OP - I think you have to have a very particular taste for his music!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Let's just say I will be more inclined to listen to a symphony composed by someone with a name like Wolfgang Friedrich von Falkenstein than a name like Mumbai Ashanti or Mohammed bin Sahid. It is a matter of cultural preferences.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Rarely, but I remember being a little disappointed when listening to Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf and finding out his music wasn't as interesting as his name.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The whole notion of this delights me. I am hypersensitive to the sound and look of languages, words, letters and numbers, and tend to perceive the visual and auditory aspects of things as a gestalt. Now that you mention it, I fear it's a fact that I've never investigated, or even thought much about, the music of Cesar Cui, and I can think of no reason for it except that his name is Cesar Cui. What's wrong with that name I can't say, but I know I dislike it. Now I probably dislike the name of Ludwig van Beethoven just as much, but he has regularly persuaded me to overlook my aversion. By contrast, the name Sergei Rachmaninov (or Rachmaninoff, the spelling he used in America - my sensibilties are on the fence about that) resonates in my soul with the splendour (which is more splendid than splendor) of a Russian Orthodox cathedral carillon, and if I didn't know his music today I would feel compelled to investigate it tomorrow.

In the end, of course, music must speak for itself. But we should probably be alert to the possible consequences of our reactions should we hear that Ima Hogg from Corncob has written her first symphony.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A postscript to the above:

Do not let the name Ludwig Thuille frighten you off. No one knows how to pronounce it, and all the options are equally weird-sounding (my apologies to the man himself, who, if it helps any, was a distinguished and beloved professor of composition, a good friend of Richard Strauss, and a dashingly handsome fellow with great hair and a moustache to die for)...

Anyway, as I was saying, Herr Thuille (Twee-yeh, Twil-lah, whatever) left us some very beautiful Romantic chamber music and other stuff. I recommend this:

http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Quintet...e=UTF8&qid=1418765181&sr=1-5&keywords=thuille

And if you want to sample him first:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

As Morimur said, _"I am allergic to Bruckner not because of his name, but his music. Talk about 'dull'."_

But the Q does give pause for thought: 
is Medtner dull because he was saddled with a (to me) stick-in-the-mud sort of surname -- perhaps affecting him through his developmental years -- or was he just a dull composer with an accidentally appropriate plodding name?

Would the operas of *Guiseppe Verdi* have the same "glam-cache" for English-speaking music / opera fans if those pieces were composed instead by *Joe Green* :-\ ?

Current star / celeb management certainly knows the value of a name such as *Cary Grant (née Archibald Macleash)* -- and *Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji* certainly carries more of an exotic (to western ears) caché vs. his _given name,_ i.e. *née: Leon Dudley Sorabji.* I mean, Leon Dudley _anything_ just does not "sound like" a creative artist, now does it? LOL.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The whole notion of this delights me. I am hypersensitive to the sound and look of languages, words, letters and numbers, and tend to perceive the visual and auditory aspects of things as a gestalt. Now that you mention it, I fear it's a fact that I've never investigated, or even thought much about, the music of Cesar Cui, and I can think of no reason for it except that his name is Cesar Cui. What's wrong with that name I can't say, but I know I dislike it. Now I probably dislike the name of Ludwig van Beethoven just as much, but he has regularly persuaded me to overlook my aversion. By contrast, the name Sergei Rachmaninov (or Rachmaninoff, the spelling he used in America - my sensibilties are on the fence about that) resonates in my soul with the splendour (which is more splendid than splendor) of a Russian Orthodox cathedral carillon, and if I didn't know his music today I would feel compelled to investigate it tomorrow.
> 
> In the end, of course, music must speak for itself. But we should probably be alert to the possible consequences of our reactions should we hear that Ima Hogg from Corncob has written her first symphony.


Ura Hogg and myself thank you for your kind solicitude.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Yes, it happened to me. But I'm quite selective. 

Of course, I don't like dull names. I found Ligeti to be a very bland and unattractive name (ugh, another mediocre italian, lol). Ravel, colorful, but dull as his Bolero. Debussy, effeminate. 

But I don't like clumsy and complex names either (ugh, another obscure composer with a name that not even his mother remembers).

One of my favorite names is Antonio Vivaldi. It is so sonorous, graceful, but at the same time full of the italian mystic and intrigue. I can smell the olive oil, I can see the vineyards, I can feel the gallantry.

Bach, as contundent as his music. A monolith.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Let's just say I will be more inclined to listen to a symphony composed by someone with a name like Wolfgang Friedrich von Falkenstein than a name like Mumbai Ashanti or Mohammed bin Sahid. It is a matter of cultural preferences.


Don't get into that "cultural preferences" topic with me! 
But then again, maybe I have a tendency to be a little racist towards some people of an Anglo heritage....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

PetrB said:


> As Morimur said, _"I am allergic to Bruckner not because of his name, but his music. Talk about 'dull'."_
> 
> But the Q does give pause, is Medtner dull because he was saddled with a (to me) stick-in-the-mud sort of surname -- perhaps affecting him through his developmental years -- or was he just a dull composer with an accidentally appropriate plodding name?
> 
> ...


Haha! Very entertaining post. And Archibald Macleash sounds much better than Cary Grant. (Pardon my ignorance, but the name Cary Grant is not familiar to me....)


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

I will admit that I bought my first CD of Xenakis' music solely because of the last name that starts with X. I must not be the only one either because I've seen lots of Xenakis CD's that have a very over-exagerated X on the cover.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Sometimes composers have good practical reasons for changing their names. Gustav von Holst, for instance.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Haha! Very entertaining post. And Archibald Macleash sounds much better than Cary Grant. (Pardon my ignorance, but the name Cary Grant is not familiar to me....)


I always thought it was Archibald Leach, not Macleash? Mr Macleash wouldn't have had to change his name.

Only on TC would we find someone who knows how to compose avant garde music but hasn't heard of Cary Grant! :lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Early in his career Michael Tilson Thomas was billed as Mike Thomas. Doesn't conjure up quite the right image.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Early in his career Michael Tilson Thomas was billed as Mike Thomas. Doesn't conjure up quite the right image.


The sissy. Lennie Bernstein refused to change his name when someone suggested it. Good ol' Lennie. We love ya.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SuperTonic said:


> I will admit that I bought my first CD of Xenakis' music solely because of the last name that starts with X. I must not be the only one either because I've seen lots of Xenakis CD's that have a very over-exagerated X on the cover.


The "X" means "Xenxored." It's a marketing gimmick. It obviously worked!


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I always thought it was Archibald Leach, not Macleash? Mr Macleash wouldn't have had to change his name.


Archibald *MacLeish* was an American poet. See his wikipedia entry here.

As you say, Figleaf, Cary Grant's given name was Archibald *Leach*, which conjures images of slimey blood-sucking creatures. Not a movie-star name at all. 



Figleaf said:


> Only on TC would we find someone who knows how to compose avant garde music but hasn't heard of Cary Grant! :lol:


For sure!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I always thought it was Archibald Leach, not Macleash? Mr Macleash wouldn't have had to change his name.
> 
> Only on TC would we find someone who knows how to compose avant garde music but hasn't heard of Cary Grant! :lol:


I laughed so hard right now reading this that it completely drowned out Richter playing "_La Chasse sauvage_" from his Prague, 1956 _Transcendental Etudes_.

_Brava._ _;D_


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

The worst case of classical nomenclature:


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> The "X" means "Xenxored." It's a marketing gimmick. It obviously worked!


I don't think the oversized 'X' is pretentious in the least, but rather a necessary and proper Madison-Avenue clarification to differentiate him from the millions of other Xenakis'es out there.

Branding not vanity.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I don't think the oversized 'X' is pretentious in the least, but rather *a necessary and proper Madison-Avenue clarification to differentiate him from the millions of other Xenakis'es out there. *
> Branding not vanity.


A refreshingly responsible corporate decision. If your toddler is used to falling asleep to the strains of _Keqrops_ or _Mycenae Alpha_, putting on Betty Sue Xenakis's _Molly Moon's Lullaby _by mistake could give the child nightmares.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> A refreshingly responsible corporate decision. If your toddler is used to falling asleep to the strains of _Keqrops_ or _Mycenae Alpha_, putting on Betty Sue Xenakis's _Molly Moon's Lullaby _by mistake could give the child nightmares.


The arcanely-structured noise of such half-fabulous frauds as Betty Sue Xenakis are only known because of the dulcet tones of her more famous namesake-- or do you not understand the man's music?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Haha! Very entertaining post. And Archibald Macleash sounds much better than Cary Grant. (Pardon my ignorance, but the name Cary Grant is not familiar to me....)


Of course, way before your time (for you, _Star Wars_, is a really really really _old_ movie) and if you are not a consumer of vintage / older flickers....

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000026/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary_Grant
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cary+Grant&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SBKSVMTKBtPcgwSI3IDQAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Figleaf said:


> I always thought it was Archibald Leach, not Macleash? Mr Macleash wouldn't have had to change his name.
> 
> Only on TC would we find someone who knows how to compose avant garde music but hasn't heard of Cary Grant! :lol:


You're right! (A senior moment lapse while I was typing, I guess?)

He was born: Archibald Alexander Leach, and sorry, back when his film career began, neither Archibald or Leach -- nor MacLeach, for that matter -- would've done at all


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I don't get turned off by names of composers, but I do get turned off by names of pieces.

Like.."Love for Three Oranges"? Hey man, I like oranges as much as the next guy, but a whole opera about it is just ridiculous.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

violadude said:


> I don't get turned off by names of composers, but I do get turned off by names of pieces.
> 
> Like.."Love for Three Oranges"? Hey man, I like oranges as much as the next guy, but a whole opera about it is just ridiculous.


That's how I feel about the Rake's Progress


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

+Cosmos , +violadude Wossamotta U? Love for Three Oranges, The Rake's Progress... those are great names!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

I recently found a Baroque composer named Leonardo Vinci and kinda hoped he never becomes famous, or he would risk confusion with you know who. On the other hand, maybe that's the reason he isn't famous..


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Der Leiermann said:


> I recently found a Baroque composer named Leonardo Vinci and kinda hoped he never becomes famous, or he would risk confusion with you know who. On the other hand, maybe that's the reason he isn't famous..


haha, and what about the famous renaissance composer Galilei?............. no, not Galileo........... his father!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

aleazk said:


> haha, and what about the famous renaissance composer Galilei?............. no, not Galileo........... his father!


Well, at least he has a different first name! I will spare him for that.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

The amazing cello player of the Quartetto Italiano is named Franco Rossi.

His name means freaking Frank Ross- which is of course means uncultured dumb brute. It sounds very different in Italian.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I have vaguely fond memories of playing a Dittersdorf piece for Grade 3 piano and saying to my family: "This piece is called English Dance in A by Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf."
Oh, the laughter.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SeptimalTritone said:


> The amazing cello player of the Quartetto Italiano is named Franco Rossi.
> 
> His name means freaking Frank Ross- which is of course means uncultured dumb brute. It sounds very different in Italian.


The guy who invented solfege and the idea of placing notes on a staff was named Guido D'Arezzo, or in English "Guy from Arezzo" :lol:

Imagine if your first name was just "Guy".


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I always thought Orff sounded like something with one eye, horns, and coarse body hair.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I kind of miss the times when christian names were translated into foreign languages, like Louis van Beethoven, Jean-Sébastien Bach, etc. I just recently came across an old German edition of some Chopin work, and the title said it was by Friedrich Chopin.  Now, whether it should have been Frédéric or Fryderyk is another matter.

I must admit that the name Sibelius always sounded really awesome to me. There's a certain latin flavour to it, like Tiberius. Which, together with the name Jean, and knowing that the guy is actually from Finland, makes it an utterly compelling combination.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Andreas said:


> I kind of miss the times when christian names were translated into foreign languages, like Louis van Beethoven, Jean-Sébastien Bach, etc. I just recently came across an old German edition of some Chopin work, and the title said it was by Friedrich Chopin.  Now, whether it should have been Frédéric or Fryderyk is another matter.
> 
> I must admit that the name Sibelius always sounded really awesome to me. There's a certain latin flavour to it, like Tiberius. Which, together with the name Jean, and knowing that the guy is actually from Finland, makes it an utterly compelling combination.


Some of Mozart's manuscripts are autographed 'Wolfgango Amadeo'. I think Beethoven used 'Luigi' on occasion, too.

I agree that Sibelius is a cracking surname. Back in the 1950s/60s there was an English rugby player called Vince Karalius - I always thought that was a wonderful name as well.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

elgars ghost said:


> Some of Mozart's manuscripts are autographed 'Wolfgango Amadeo'.


He signed a letter "Wolfgangus Amadeus Mozartus" once.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

ahammel said:


> He signed a letter "Wolfgangus Amadeus Mozartus" once.


Naughty boy - he should have substituted the W with a V if he wanted to 'Romanise' his name properly.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Andreas said:


> I kind of miss the times when christian names were translated into foreign languages, like Louis van Beethoven, Jean-Sébastien Bach, etc. I just recently came across an old German edition of some Chopin work, and the title said it was by Friedrich Chopin.  Now, whether it should have been Frédéric or Fryderyk is another matter.
> 
> I must admit that the name Sibelius always sounded really awesome to me. There's a certain latin flavour to it, like Tiberius. Which, together with the name Jean, and knowing that the guy is actually from Finland, makes it an utterly compelling combination.


I used to think Sibelius was a French composer who had altered his last name. I still loved his music though.


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## Kibbles Croquettes (Dec 2, 2014)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I used to think Sibelius was a French composer who had altered his last name. I still loved his music though.


Well, it's the other way around: he altered his firs name. He was Johan Sibelius.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I used to think Sibelius was a French composer who had altered his last name. I still loved his music though.


Apparently so did a radio announcer on Boston Public Radio, who rendered his name "Jean Sibbleeoo."


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

MoonlightSonata said:


> I used to think Sibelius was a French composer who had altered his last name. I still loved his music though.


His first name was actually Johan, not Jean. I guess he changed it to attempt to fool you into thinking he was French!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Kibbles Croquettes said:


> Well, it's the other way around: he altered his firs name. He was Johan Sibelius.





hpowders said:


> His first name was actually Johan, not Jean. I guess he changed it to attempt to fool you into thinking he was French!


I did feel a little bit silly when I finally learnt this.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> I always thought it was Archibald Leach, not Macleash? Mr Macleash wouldn't have had to change his name.
> 
> Only on TC would we find someone who knows how to compose avant garde music but hasn't heard of Cary Grant! :lol:


I'm bringing that pic to my plastic surgeon. I want to look just like that!!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I'm bringing that pic to my plastic surgeon. I want to look just like that!!


I think of you as more of a Tony Curtis. Minus the exaggerated quiff of the later years, of course


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> I think of you as more of a Tony Curtis. Minus the exaggerated quiff of the later years, of course


Thanks! Check my profile page. The risk is yours.


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

The names does bother me because certain ones are hard to pronounce.I care more about how the music sounds than the name.


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## soundoftritones (Dec 24, 2014)

Scriabin. I think his musical style suits his name very well, and vice versa. 
Unfortunately enough, I'm not an avid fan of tonal music


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## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

Honestly, it never occured to me, so no.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

I think it makes a difference to me when deciding whether or not to look into a new composer. Pascal Dusapin, Pēteris Vasks, and Kaija Saariaho sound like badasses. Erich Korngold sounds like a chump.


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