# Talk me down - I'm enjoying Boulez in Mahler! What's happening to me?



## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

My Mahler heroes are Klemperer,Walter, Scherchen, Kubelik, Tennstedt, and - to a slightly lesser extent - Abbado. Yet I am inordinately liking Boulez's DG cycle. My friends...wazzup wi' dat?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

You've seen the light......................


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Boulez can be a very excellent Mahler conductor...his #9 with Chicago is very fine, of of the best...


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## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

Just wait till you start "inordinately liking" Boulez in Boulez...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I can't speak for Boulez' recordings but I have attended live Mahler concerts from the likes of Barbirolli, Abbado, Rattle, Solti, Giulini - and hearing a live Mahler 5th from Boulez wasn't half bad


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Totenfeier said:


> My Mahler heroes are Klemperer,Walter, Scherchen, Kubelik, Tennstedt, and - to a slightly lesser extent - Abbado. Yet I am inordinately liking Boulez's DG cycle. My friends...wazzup wi' dat?


Klemperer, Walter, Kubelik and Tennstedt are also at the top of my Mahler favorites list. Though I don't care for Boulez's Mahler at this time, I would only say to you if you're enjoying it, why would you want to be "talked down"? What's happening to you? You've made a positive discovery and your taste is broadening and/or changing.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have the complete Boulez Mahler set and my only criticism is he ruins the 4th by rushing a few sections.

His 8th is just about the best I've ever heard, and his 5th and 6th aren't far behind.

His 1st is as good as any.

His Resurrection isn't as fine as Mehta's and can be a bit more involved.

His 3rd isn't as fine as Bernstein/NY Philharmonic but it is well-thought out and cohesive.
I was fortunate enough to hear Boulez do the 3rd live when he was music director of the NY Philharmonic.

The 7th is a tough nut to crack and along with the 4th this is one of the weaker performances in the set.

His 9th is fine, a bit faster than the norm, but moving all the same.

Pierre Boulez was one of the greatest conductors who ever lived. His Mahler set, with a few exceptions, is a testament to that.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

I love Boulez' Mahler cycle! I've never understood why people dislike it so much - it's a totally engaging, intellectual and dedicated interpretation that has a lot of re-listen value. _If only_ he had recorded the complete Bruckner symphonies... His 8th is amazing and I'd love to hear more - but alas, we can't have everything. Fortunately his excellent Mahler recordings continue to enthrall and provoke discussion!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Boulez certainly recognized that Mahler's orchestral style, with its use of pure, individual instrumental timbres, marks him as a modern composer, even if his highly personal emotionalism and programmatic content make him a late Romantic. No one can bring greater clarity to a sonic texture than Boulez.


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

Boulez has always been among my favorites overall in Mahler. In fact I could say it was the first set that "unlocked" a lot of Mahler for me. It certainly doesn't hurt that my favorite Mahler symphony is the 9th and that I don't think Boulez's version in this has any betters, if perhaps a few equals. His 3rd and 7th also rate highly for me and I don't think any in the set are duds.



hpowders said:


> His 3rd isn't as fine as Bernstein/NY Philharmonic but it is well-thought out and cohesive.
> I was fortunate enough to hear Boulez do the 3rd live when he was music director of the NY Philharmonic.


Fortunate indeed. I agree with your other comments as well.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> My Mahler heroes are Klemperer,Walter, Scherchen, Kubelik, Tennstedt, and - to a slightly lesser extent - Abbado. Yet I am inordinately liking Boulez's DG cycle. My friends...wazzup wi' dat?


As long as it's not contagious .
Give my all your old favourites any day of the week.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

See, that's just it, right there. The Black Iron Knight, Sir Klemperer; the tender nostalgia of Walter; the rustic charm of Kubelik; the incredibly dangerous Tennstedt (to overgeneralize and stereotype a bit). I've always liked my Mahler served up with with an extra helping of passion (Lenny is just _too_ spicy). So why do I suddenly, it seems, want analytical clarity, and to hear the music more that the thunder? Why am I hankering after Hemingway Mahler? Maybe it's simply symptom #3,217 of advancing age.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

The 6th with Boulez/VPO is one of the best out there IMHO.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> See, that's just it, right there. The Black Iron Knight, Sir Klemperer; the tender nostalgia of Walter; the rustic charm of Kubelik; the incredibly dangerous Tennstedt (to overgeneralize and stereotype a bit). I've always liked my Mahler served up with with an extra helping of passion (Lenny is just _too_ spicy). So why do I suddenly, it seems, want analytical clarity, and to hear the music more that the thunder? Why am I hankering after Hemingway Mahler? Maybe it's simply symptom #3,217 of advancing age.


Mahler's music is so vast that it's fun to hear _many different interpretations_ -- including more modernist approaches from conductors like Boulez (and Gielen).


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2016)

Totenfeier said:


> See, that's just it, right there. The Black Iron Knight, Sir Klemperer; the tender nostalgia of Walter; the rustic charm of Kubelik; the incredibly dangerous Tennstedt (to overgeneralize and stereotype a bit). I've always liked my Mahler served up with with an extra helping of passion (Lenny is just _too_ spicy). So why do I suddenly, it seems, want analytical clarity, and to hear the music more that the thunder? Why am I hankering after Hemingway Mahler? Maybe it's simply symptom #3,217 of advancing age.


"advancing age" to take it for what it is, and that is surprisingly often more than enough,it is probably a breaktrough in your mind. It is if you are looking at the score,right?


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Yes, Boulez' Bruckner´s 8th is awesome.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> See, that's just it, right there. The Black Iron Knight, Sir Klemperer; the tender nostalgia of Walter; the rustic charm of Kubelik; the incredibly dangerous Tennstedt (to overgeneralize and stereotype a bit). I've always liked my Mahler served up with with an extra helping of passion (Lenny is just _too_ spicy). So why do I suddenly, it seems, want analytical clarity, and to hear the music more that the thunder? Why am I hankering after Hemingway Mahler? Maybe it's simply symptom #3,217 of advancing age.


Many of us become more open-minded and flexible with age, even as we refine our judgments and tastes. Change is inevitable. Just accept it.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Heliogabo said:


> Yes, Boulez' Bruckner´s 8th is awesome.


Yes, I can attest to this too, highly recommended.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I think there could be a preconception issue with some people, as if they expect Boulez to unceremoniously entomb the richness of Mahler's music within a dense layer of unyielding Darmstadt permafrost. Boulez's colleague Bruno Maderna conducted a visceral recording of Mahler's 9th with the BBC SO, so why shouldn't another card-carrying modernist such as Boulez be able to conduct Mahler's music with equal distinction? To any sceptics I would say listen and hopefully be proved wrong.


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## ArgumentativeOldGit (May 4, 2014)

Some 15 or so years ago, I heard Boulez at the Edinburgh Festival conduct the LSO in Mahler's 6th symphony, and to this day, it's the greatest performance of a Mahler symphony I have heard live. There was a knife-edged intensity throughout, and that finale seemed like the Apocalypse itself. I had never heard - and nor have I heard since - anything like it.

So I went out and bought his studio recording with the VPO, and I must confess I was hugely disappointed. In comparison to what I had heard in concert, this was just so tame. I know many rate it highly, and I have kept the recording in case my tastes change. But it's very, very different from what I know I heard that night in the Usher Hall in Edinburgh.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

bz3 said:


> Boulez has always been among my favorites overall in Mahler. In fact I could say it was the first set that "unlocked" a lot of Mahler for me. It certainly doesn't hurt that my favorite Mahler symphony is the 9th and that I don't think Boulez's version in this has any betters, if perhaps a few equals. His 3rd and 7th also rate highly for me and I don't think any in the set are duds.
> 
> Fortunate indeed. I agree with your other comments as well.


Thank you, bz3. I appreciate that.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

jdec said:


> The 6th with Boulez/VPO is one of the best out there IMHO.


Yes. The 6th is perfect. No schmaltz needed. The emotion is already in the notes as Boulez demonstrates.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I love the Boulez Mahler set. It, Bernstein, and MTT are my favorites


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

His Das Lied von der Erde, if you consider that part of the cycle, is not up to par with other versions, not because of Boulez. I think the soloists let him down a little. Magnificent CD cover though.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Boulez and Mahler: like they say, If you can fake emotion, you've got it made.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Totenfeier said:


> See, that's just it, right there. The Black Iron Knight, Sir Klemperer; the tender nostalgia of Walter; the rustic charm of Kubelik; the incredibly dangerous Tennstedt (to overgeneralize and stereotype a bit). I've always liked my Mahler served up with with an extra helping of passion (Lenny is just _too_ spicy). So why do I suddenly, it seems, want analytical clarity, and to hear the music more that the thunder? Why am I hankering after Hemingway Mahler? Maybe it's simply symptom #3,217 of advancing age.


Yep...It can be fun just rolling with some of those "symptoms" :cheers:


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Pugg said:


> As long as it's not contagious .
> Give my all your old favourites any day of the week.


On target, Pugg :clap:


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## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Hands down my favorite conductor. His Mahler is wonderful, and so is his Debussy.


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## chalkpie (Oct 5, 2011)

Let's talk about another amazing Boulez moment in Mahler - 7th Symphony:

In the "moonlit episode" (1st mvt), The harp glissando is picture perfect and seems to melt into the wind trills that follow - gorgeous and spot-on perfection. I have never heard any recording that conveys that moment with the absolute commanding and obsessive detail that Boulez did. Moments like this are what made him special and stand out from the crowd.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Totenfeier said:


> My Mahler heroes are Klemperer,Walter, Scherchen, Kubelik, Tennstedt, and - to a slightly lesser extent - Abbado. Yet I am inordinately liking Boulez's DG cycle. My friends...wazzup wi' dat?


You have graduated and escalated to another level.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Boulez and Mahler: like they say, If you can fake emotion, you've got it made.


Boulez doesn't fake anything. He presents the scores with clarity and lets the emotion emanate from the notes without adding schmaltz, mein herring.


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