# Beethoven late sonatas-- Your favorite interpreters



## silentio

By "late", I meant No.28, 30, 31, and 32 (yeah, I don't like Hammerklavier at all :lol.

Who are your favorite pianists in each, and as a whole?

For me:

*28th:* Schnabel and Gilels
*30th:* Hess and Gilels
*31th:* Schnabel
*32th:* Schnabel and Arrau

Overall, I still pick my old man Schnabel. But I would like to hear more from Beethoven specialists.


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## DavidA

Pollini
Serkin
Kempff
Richter
A Fischer
Solomon
Schnabel


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## chesapeake bay

My favorites are:
sonata no. 28 and 30 - Pollini
sonata no. 31 - A Ciccolini
sonata no. 32 - Trifonov

I don't listen to whole sets because there is such a range of styles across the Sonata's that no one plays them all exceptionally well, however if I had choose one, then Schnabel would be it.


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## merlinus

Arrau, Levit, Lucchesini, Pollini, Serkin.


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## Bettina

Brendel has long been one of my favorites. Serious, thoughtful playing which suits the style of the late sonatas. Recently, though, Goodyear has been growing on me.


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## hpowders

I never Tire of Goodyear.


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## Bettina

hpowders said:


> I never Tire of Goodyear.


LOL! Goodyear never gets a flat tire, that's for sure. A few years ago, I heard him perform all 32 of Beethoven's piano sonatas in one day, and his stamina never flagged. I think I was more tired than he was at the end of the day!! :lol:


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> LOL! Goodyear never gets a flat tire, that's for sure. A few years ago, I heard him perform all 32 of Beethoven's piano sonatas in one day, and his stamina never flagged. I think I was more tired than he was at the end of the day!! :lol:


They used to have marathons like that when I lived in NYC. Why did I ever move away?


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## lluissineu

Nothing to do with Beethoven last sonatas. An Scotish friend once told me an american Who was visiting Scotland went to a kilt shop and asked which tartan would fit to his name (Dunlop). As Dunlop Is not an Scottish name, The shop assistant answered: no doubt, McIn*tire*

what about Arrau and Kovacevich?


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## Hurbi

Anton Kuerti's hammerklavier. Vladimir Feltsman. I beg you all to listen to feltsman's last beethoven sonatas


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## KenOC

I agree on Goodyear's excellent Beethoven cycle. Those interested should know it can be had, as a download, for $5.99. Amazing, that! These are 320K MP3s.

https://us.7digital.com/artist/stew...te-piano-sonatas-1946009?f=20,19,12,16,17,9,2


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## hpowders

Bruce Hungerford. Annie Fischer.

I never get tired of listening to these two great Beethoven interpreters.


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## silentio

hpowders said:


> Bruce Hungerford. Annie Fischer.
> 
> I never get tired of listening to these two great Beethoven interpreters.


Oh no, how could I even forget ashtray Annie! Yes, her late Beethoven are remarkable too. At the moment, Schnabel and Annie Fischer are my two favorite Beethoven interpreters.


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## silentio

This is so good


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## lextune

Arrau
Brendel
Goode
Pollini
Serkin
Schnabel
Backhaus
Solomon
Gilels
Kempff
Barenboim
Schiff
Fischer
Richter - Not his Op.110 though, it is one of the very, very, few interpretations of any repertoire that Richter falls flat in.


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## Heliogabo

Pollini and Brendel for me. 
I'm curious to hear Igor Levit's rendition, since I love his Diabelli variations.


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## Vaneyes

Pollini, Schnabel, Gulda, ABM (32).


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## Bruckner Anton

My favorites for the sonatas #28-32 in general:
1. Pollini DG, all of them are nearly perfect.
2. Richter, #30-32 on Philips are very good, #29 London live performance 1975 is legendary despite the poor sound quality.
3. Arrau 1960s, generally very good, especially #29. But I don't like the slow tempo and over-romantic rendition on the 2nd movement of #32, which requires to be played "SIMPLE and cantabile".
4. Richter-Haaser EMI, very fine overall performance, clean and to-the-point.
5. Serkin on DG and Sony, generally outstanding. Exploring the most personal aspect of the works without the lost of general contour.
6. Gilels DG, #28-31 are excellent. A great loss that he did not manage to record #32.

Other versions I owned that I found less recommendable than the above, but still worth mentioning here: Brautigam, Buchbinder 1st, Brendel 1970s, Uchida, Kempff stereo, Backhaus stereo, Solomon EMI.


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## Hurbi

i uploaded a video of feltsman's interpretation of 109 for y'all, couldn't find it on youtube.











second one is seong-jin cho, a winner of the chopin competition. this has a romantic flare to it.


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## Crassus

Richter's 1975 recording of the Op.106 is unmatched
Pollini's 1975 Op.110 
I like Barenboim's 1983 rendition of the Op.109 best 
The last one is a bit difficult, but I would go with Richter again


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## Vaneyes

silentio said:


> Oh no, how could I even forget *ashtray Annie*! Yes, her late Beethoven are remarkable too. At the moment, Schnabel and Annie Fischer are my two favorite Beethoven interpreters.


*Ashtray Annie *

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/08/...ano-giant-why-didnt-more-people-realise-this/


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## Merl

No love for Kovacevich? Excellent performances, in my ears. Schiff is superb in the late sonatas and I still love my Gilels. Jando is a nice cheap alternative too.


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## Guest

Gilels - Brendel - Ashkenazy - Gulda and Pollini only for the late sonatas.


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## Pugg

Traverso said:


> Gilels - Brendel - Ashkenazy - Gulda and Pollini only for the late sonatas.


Leave the Gulda out and I am with your choice.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

Kempff and Pollini - but I tend to prefer Pollini.


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## lextune

Merl said:


> No love for Kovacevich? Excellent performances, in my ears.


They *are* excellent! I made a long list, and yet still forgot Kovacevich. It shows the embarrassment of riches that the Beethoven Sonatas have been blessed with.


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## Pat Fairlea

Probably Brendel over all, but Gilels for 28-31 and Solomon for 32. 

And what's wrong with Hammerklavier? Lovely slow movement.


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## silentio

Pat Fairlea said:


> Probably Brendel over all, but Gilels for 28-31 and Solomon for 32.
> 
> And what's wrong with Hammerklavier? Lovely slow movement.


While I try to avoid the 29th, I do adore the _Adagio sostenuto_ though. Schnable is amazing there.


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## AClockworkOrange

I have a few gaps to put it mildly, I have only heard Ronald Brautigam, Daniel Barenboim and one by Claudio Arrau.

Brautigam is presently my favourite by a margin - I especially enjoy the fortepiano here (as in his Haydn & Mozart), but I also enjoy Barenboim's EMI set. I need to hear more Arrau but I really enjoyed the Sonata I heard.

On my to listen list at some point are Murray Perahia, Alfred Brendel and Rudolf Serkin.


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## arnerich

silentio said:


> While I try to avoid the 29th, I do adore the _Adagio sostenuto_ though. Schnable is amazing there.


The Hammerklavier is a masterwork from beginning to end in my books. I agree with Schnabel on the slow movement, his opus 109 3rd movement is particular moving too.


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## KenOC

arnerich said:


> The Hammerklavier is a masterwork from beginning to end in my books. I agree with Schnabel on the slow movement, his opus 109 3rd movement is particular moving too.


I hate hate hate Gould in Beethoven's late sonatas! Should I repeat that to make it clearer?

Nonetheless, he nails the slow movement of the Hammerklavier. Who'd have thought it?

An icy mausoleum of our collective sorrows. How could a human being possibly have written this stuff?


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## realdealblues

If I try to really narrow it down to a single recording for each:

#28 - Kempff (DG)
#29 - Arrau (Philips)
#30 - Fischer (EMI)
#31 - Goode (Nonesuch)
#32 - Pollini (DG)

For a single performer, in general I like Arrau for the late sonatas. Serkin is also a favorite. I like Brendel, Kempff and Goode. I think Ashkenazy is underrated in Beethoven and does well in the late sonatas.


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## Animal the Drummer

Agree about Ashkenazy. He's not always my favourite interpreter (for example I find his Mozart concertos over-personal too often) but I like him in Beethoven. I especially enjoy his Op.110.

My ideal in these sonatas is Solomon. I so wish he'd recorded the whole cycle.


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## Guest

My favorites are Arrau, Korstick, Lewis, Guy, and Levit. A single favorite performance is Op.106 by Vestard Shimkus.


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## silentio

Animal the Drummer said:


> Agree about Ashkenazy. He's not always my favourite interpreter (for example I find his Mozart concertos over-personal too often) but I like him in Beethoven. I especially enjoy his Op.110.
> 
> My ideal in these sonatas is Solomon. I so wish he'd recorded the whole cycle.


I must add that his Schubert is surprisingly good too.


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## hpowders

The only thing Schnabel could play fluently was slow movements. He made a mess of anything faster than andante.

I have a live recording of him in Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 3 and it was a mess.


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## lextune

Schnabel was a towering figure. He could play "flawlessly", as Arrau and others, regularly reported in the 20s.

He disliked the recording process though, and felt very nervous about it. Many of his mistakes are splashes of notes, that, while not correct, do not detract from the flow and structure of the music at all for me, (and many millions of others in the last century). 
As a greater pianist than me once said: "I'll take Schnabel's wrong notes, over most other pianist's right ones."


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## AfterHours

#28 - Igor Levit (2013)
#29 - Annie Fischer (1977-1978) 
#30 - Alfred Brendel (1962-1964) [Vox Box]
#31 - Alfred Brendel (1962-1964) [Vox Box] 
#32 - Maurizio Pollini (1977)

I'm not sure if I'll ever find better interpretations of #29, #30 and #32 than those I've listed here (I've searched and searched... but of course always open to suggestions). The other two (of #28 and #31) are beyond superb but I've invested a little less energy in listening to as many other renditions of them, so I'm not as convinced (yet?)


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## AfterHours

^^^ Whoops, the Brendel I listed for #31 is the incorrect recording. It must be one of his later ones. I'll look into it and update my selection, or choose another interpreter (Goode would probably be my next choice, or even my top choice).


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## Bettina

No. 28--Annie Fischer
No. 29--Charles Rosen
No. 30--Emil Gilels
No. 31--Wilhelm Kempff
No. 32--Alfred Brendel


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## WaterRat

hpowders said:


> Bruce Hungerford. Annie Fischer.
> 
> I never get tired of listening to these two great Beethoven interpreters.


Two rather different interpreters. I personally find Hungerford more soulful of the two and, as I said in another thread, he is my favourite interpreter of Beethoven, though I also enjoy Pollini's recordings of the late sonatas.


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## AfterHours

AfterHours said:


> ^^^ Whoops, the Brendel I listed for #31 is the incorrect recording. It must be one of his later ones. I'll look into it and update my selection, or choose another interpreter (Goode would probably be my next choice, or even my top choice).


Okay, I revisited Brendel and Goode, and each are superb and deserving of very high praise. However, after going through several of Arrau's renditions I now think the crowning version of the 31st is his live performance from the 1960 Stockholm Concert. Has this been topped? A _stunning_, magical performance. Perhaps no pianist can make every note count like prime Arrau could (unfortunately few recordings capture the full impact of his strength, depth of tone, tender lyricism and striking virtuosity vividly enough, but the performance I've listed here does). NOTE: His rendition of the 32nd from the same disc may also be the very best, but I need to listen to it some more and newly revisit Pollini's to make a more direct comparison. Regardless of that outcome, it is at least among the very very best, and I highly recommend it.

#28 - Igor Levit (2013) [Sony Classical]
#29 - Annie Fischer (1977-1978) [Hungaraton]
#30 - Alfred Brendel (1962-1964) [VoxBox Edition]
#31 - Claudio Arrau (1960) [Live Stockholm Concert, ICA Classics]
#32 - Maurizio Pollini (1977) [Deutsche Grammophon]


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## Mandryka

AfterHours said:


> Okay, I revisited Brendel and Goode, and each are superb and deserving of very high praise. However, after going through several of Arrau's performances I now think the crowning performance of the 31st is his live performance from the 1960 Stockholm Concert. Has this been topped? A _stunning_, magical performance. Perhaps no pianist can make every note count like prime Arrau could (unfortunately few recordings capture the full impact of his strength, depth of tone, tender lyricism and striking virtuosity vividly enough, but the performance I've listed here does). NOTE: His rendition of the 32nd from the same disc may also be the very best, but I need to listen to it some more and newly revisit Pollini's to make a more direct comparison. Regardless of that outcome, it is at least among the very very best, and I highly recommend it.
> 
> #28 - Igor Levit (2013) [Sony Classical]
> #29 - Annie Fischer (1977-1978) [Hungaraton]
> #30 - Alfred Brendel (1962-1964) [VoxBox Edition]
> #31 - Claudio Arrau (1960) [Live Stockholm Concert, ICA Classics]
> #32 - Maurizio Pollini (1977) [Deutsche Grammophon]


Arrau's Stockholm performance is exceptional, thanks for pointing it out. There are some other worthwhile recordings of op 110 worth hearing, from Georg Demus on the Beethovenhaus Graf, Valery Afanassiev in Tokyo, Ernst Levy and Igor Zhukov for example.


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## hpowders

28. Brendel

29. Fischer

30. Hungerford

31. Hungerford

32. Hungerford


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## AfterHours

Mandryka said:


> Arrau's Stockholm performance is exceptional, thanks for pointing it out. There are some other worthwhile recordings of op 110 worth hearing, from Georg Demus on the Beethovenhaus Graf, Valery Afanassiev in Tokyo, Ernst Levy and Igor Zhukov for example.


Thank you, I checked those out and my favorite among them was Demus, which I'd heard before but was well worth returning to. Afanassiev and Levy were exceptional too (which I hadn't heard before). Unfortunately, I couldn't find Zhukov's Op 110 on YouTube or Spotify to be able to check it out, but I trust, based on these others, that it is great and that I should track it down someday.


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## silentio

As stated in the original post, I'm not a fan of the Hammerklavier. But after seeing so many of you guys recommended Annie Fischer, I listened to her and I'm stunned. The Andante Sostenuto and the final fugue are unbearably intense.


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## Mandryka

AfterHours said:


> Thank you, I checked those out and my favorite among them was Demus, which I'd heard before but was well worth returning to. Afanassiev and Levy were exceptional too (which I hadn't heard before). Unfortunately, I couldn't find Zhukov's Op 110 on YouTube or Spotify to be able to check it out, but I trust, based on these others, that it is great and that I should track it down someday.


What do you think of Richter's late recordings of op 110? There's a particularly fine one on Live Classics, with exceptional sound. I'm not so keen on his earlier ideas about Beethoven, which seem to be just about dazzling the audience with technique.









The Zhukov is here









And another one I remember admiring was Edwin Fischer's., especially in the final movement. Fischer's piano is really nice, wonderfully balanced in all the registers, they don't make pianos like that any more!

In fact I listened to the Afanassiev today and started to feel less enthusiastic particularly about the second movement - I'm not sure anything follows, I'm probably wasn't much in the mood. There are two recordings of him doing op 110 - one in Moscow and one in Tokyo.

The Demus shows the importance of fortepiano for the music, it would probably be my top choice in fact, at least in some moods!

An op 110 I picked up recently and enjoyed was from Gulda, live in Montpellier. It was clearly a concert which caught him inspired - Gulda's like that, never bad but sometimes, rarely, he is touched by some sort of grace (another example is his Beethoven PC3 with Rossi)









I think the concert's outside, and at some point an aeroplane passes over! I rather like that - it reminds me of the recording by Wanda Landowska from the Second World War in Paris where you hear anti-aircraft guns. Apart from that the sound is fine.


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## AfterHours

silentio said:


> As stated in the original post, I'm not a fan of the Hammerklavier. But after seeing so many of you guys recommended Annie Fischer, I listened to her and I'm stunned. The Andante Sostenuto and the final fugue are unbearably intense.


Yes! I don't know of any other that captures so powerfully the seething violence, frustration and desperation, the frantic urge to hear and be heard as if his life depended on it, and in the Andante, the time-stopping tears and devastation of it all, as Fischer's. Fischer reigns supreme in Beethoven's most dramatic sonatas (she is my top choice for #14, #21 and #23 as well) because she plays like her life depends on it. She consistently pushes her technique to the brink where it sounds like she is just on the verge of losing control, but then doesn't, and the tension is astonishing. It sounds like the storms of notes from the piano are taking over her body and the sound is swallowing her and she is completely immersed inside the tornado of what is happening. As mentioned above, among a very crowded field with many fine, classic interpretations, her "Appassionata", "Waldstein" and "Moonlight" are each the greatest I've ever heard as well. Others are more "polished" (Goode, Hamelin, and so forth) but no one outside of Arrau conveys her towering strength and depth of tone, and this quality is essential to relaying an emotional investment commensurate to Beethoven's own.


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## AfterHours

Mandryka said:


> What do you think of Richter's late recordings of op 110? There's a particularly fine one on Live Classics, with exceptional sound. I'm not so keen on his earlier ideas about Beethoven, which seem to be just about dazzling the audience with technique.
> 
> View attachment 93155
> 
> 
> The Zhukov is here
> 
> View attachment 93154
> 
> 
> And another one I remember admiring was Edwin Fischer's., especially in the final movement. Fischer's piano is really nice, wonderfully balanced in all the registers, they don't make pianos like that any more!
> 
> In fact I listened to the Afanassiev today and started to feel less enthusiastic particularly about the second movement - I'm not sure anything follows, I'm probably wasn't much in the mood. There are two recordings of him doing op 110 - one in Moscow and one in Tokyo.
> 
> The Demus shows the importance of fortepiano for the music, it would probably be my top choice in fact, at least in some moods!
> 
> An op 110 I picked up recently and enjoyed was from Gulda, live in Montpellier. It was clearly a concert which caught him inspired - Gulda's like that, never bad but sometimes, rarely, he is touched by some sort of grace (another example is his Beethoven PC3 with Rossi)
> 
> View attachment 93156
> 
> 
> I think the concert's outside, and at some point an aeroplane passes over! I rather like that - it reminds me of the recording by Wanda Landowska from the Second World War in Paris where you hear anti-aircraft guns. Apart from that the sound is fine.


Thank you for the recs!

Re: Richter's late recordings ... I'm not sure I've heard his Op 110 from that period yet. I'll check out the one you have here.

Re: Demus and fortepiano ... His Op 110 is among those that works quite well with this. I don't particularly dig fortepiano for works such as the Hammerklavier and Appassionata that thrive from a more forceful, larger sound, however. Now, if Andreas Staier takes a stab at those, I may change my mind... I do think Brautigam's are quite impressive for fortepiano that's for sure, and hold up decently next to a good number of modern piano versions.

Re: Edwin Fischer ... I'm pretty sure I've heard that one and thought it was superb. I'll check it out to make sure, and/or to give it another go.

Re: Gulda ... I've heard several of his but I don't think I've heard this particular rendition you mention. I'll check it out, thank you.


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## Pugg

silentio said:


> As stated in the original post, I'm not a fan of the Hammerklavier. But after seeing so many of you guys recommended Annie Fischer, I listened to her and I'm stunned. The Andante Sostenuto and the final fugue are unbearably intense.


You see, sometimes one can change his / her mind


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## silentio

Pugg said:


> You see, sometimes one can change his / her mind


Actually, I still don't like the Hammerklavier, but I'm amazed by Fischer's playing


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## KenOC

Dame Myra Hess has wonderful renditions of the Opp. 109 and 110 on this old recording. Exceptional warmth.


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## silentio

KenOC said:


> Dame Myra Hess has wonderful renditions of the Opp. 109 and 110 on this old recording. Exceptional warmth.


Yes, a very lyrical reading of No.30 (the most lyrical of the late sonatas).


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## Blancrocher

Bettina said:


> No. 28--Annie Fischer
> No. 29--Charles Rosen
> No. 30--Emil Gilels
> No. 31--Wilhelm Kempff
> No. 32--Alfred Brendel


Glad to see that Rosen Hammerklavier mentioned-that was a revelation for me the first time I heard it, and it remains a favorite.


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## Bettina

Blancrocher said:


> Glad to see that Rosen Hammerklavier mentioned-that was a revelation for me the first time I heard it, and it remains a favorite.


It's great to hear that you share my passion for the Rosen Hammerklavier! Rosen was one of those rare geniuses who was equally brilliant as a writer and performer. I love reading his analytical insights about the Hammerklavier (in The Classical Style and several other books), and listening to how he expresses those insights in his performance of the work.


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## PeterF

My favorites would be:
Serkin
Kempff
Buchbinder

I found it interesting that Buchbinder was not mentioned by anyone other than me?
His complete set of Beethoven Piano Sonatas on RCA/ Sony is outstanding.


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## Chatellerault

Pollini, Richter-Hasser (28 to 32)
Brautigam (28, 29, 31)
Arrau (32)


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## realdealblues

PeterF said:


> My favorites would be:
> Serkin
> Kempff
> Buchbinder
> 
> I found it interesting that Buchbinder was not mentioned by anyone other than me?
> His complete set of Beethoven Piano Sonatas on RCA/ Sony is outstanding.


I really enjoy Buchbinder and his overall conception of the entire Sonata cycle. I prefer his earlier Piano Sonata cycle on Teldec though compared to his remakes for RCA.


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## Tchaikov6

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> Kempff and Pollini - but I tend to prefer Pollini.


The same for me... but I tend to prefer Kempff.


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## hpowders

Bruce Hungerford and Annie Fischer.


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## Holden4th

I thought that as a set, the Pollini is very, very good. Individually it's a bit different

28 Hungerford (great to see others mention this great Aussie pianist)
29 Sokolov - Moscow recording from about 20-30 years ago, it's coupled with the Schumann PC
30 Hess - simply incomparable
31 Richter - in Leipzig
32 Arrau - on a EMI Classic Archive DVD (rec 1970)


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## David9

Annie Fischer's Op. 106 is fierce and revelatory, though I think her dynamics in the 3rd movement to be 'pushed' too much. Brendel's 1971 recording is the first I ever heard, so maybe that accounts for it, but I just think he owns this sonata and plays the 3rd movement with a tenderness that owes something to his restraint. I also like Claude Frank's version and also Ronald Brautigam's on Fortepiano. Nevertheless, Annie Fischer's complete set of the 32 are on my Christmas list and am thankful for the many great posts on this thread.


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## hpowders

Either Annie Fischer or Bruce Hungerford. Both are very fine.


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## Botschaft

no. 28: Brautigam
no. 29: Brautigam
no. 30: Brautigam
no. 31: Brautigam
no. 32: Brautigam


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## Fenestella

No.31: Simon Barere
No.32, Mvt.1: Dino Ciani, Sari Biro
No.32, Mvt.2: if memory serves, Anton Rubinstein commented on whether it is humanly possible to excel in both movements and whether the 2nd movement transcends humanity. All recordings I've heard prove his point - which might not be applicable to superhumans like Josef Hofmann and Simon Barere (but I can only imagine since they left no recordings of Op.111).


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## Xaltotun

Inspired by this thread, I've been listening to Annie Fischer for two days now and I'M BLOWN AWAY.


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## Mandryka

Fenestella said:


> No.31: Simon Barere


The tension, like highly strung nervous tension, makes it very distinctive.



Fenestella said:


> No.32, Mvt.1: Dino Ciani


Do you know why it's so well recorded compared with the rest?



Fenestella said:


> No.32, Mvt.1:Sari Biro


New name for me, I'll explore.



Fenestella said:


> No.32, Mvt.2: if memory serves, Anton Rubinstein commented on whether it is humanly possible to excel in both movements and whether the 2nd movement transcends humanity. All recordings I've heard prove his point - which might not be applicable to superhumans like Josef Hofmann and Simon Barere (but I can only imagine since they left no recordings of Op.111).


Have you heard Arrau on Classic Archives? I also have a vague memory that Yudina did good things with it.


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## Holden4th

I've got all the Barere Carnegie recordings but the op110 didn't ring a bell. I'm listening to it now.


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## dillonp2020

Fenestella said:


> No.32, Mvt.1: Dino Ciani, Sari Biro
> \


I've never liked the the tempo of Ciani for 111.


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## dillonp2020

I'm only truly familiar with 106 and 111, so I won't comment on the others.
106: Giles does it for me, no question.
111: Overall, Richter, but some others are good as well. I like Uchida, Kempff, and also Perahia.


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## jegreenwood

dillonp2020 said:


> I'm only truly familiar with 106 and 111, so I won't comment on the others.
> 106: Giles does it for me, no question.
> 111: Overall, Richter, but some others are good as well. I like Uchida, Kempff, and also Perahia.


Google tells me that Perahia has been performing Op. 111 in recital recently, but I was unaware that he had recorded it. Is it a recent release?


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## Holden4th

A correction on my original post.



Holden4th said:


> I thought that as a set, the Pollini is very, very good. Individually it's a bit different
> 
> 28 Hungerford (great to see others mention this great Aussie pianist) EDIT I was so pleased to see Hungerford mentioned that I got carried away. Hungerford never recorded Op 101. Right next to my Hungerford CDs is Ernst Levy and I love his quite original take on this sonata. I'm not sure how I mixed them up but I was enjoying a quite libation at the time.
> 29 Sokolov - Moscow recording from about 20-30 years ago, it's coupled with the Schumann PC
> 30 Hess - simply incomparable
> 31 Richter - in Leipzig
> 32 Arrau - on a EMI Classic Archive DVD (rec 1970)


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## staxomega

Annie Fischer and Schnabel. It's been a while since I've heard the late sonatas played by Arrau, I recall they were excellent as well.


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## staxomega

Xaltotun said:


> Inspired by this thread, I've been listening to Annie Fischer for two days now and I'M BLOWN AWAY.


The Hungaraton box of her complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas is one of my favorite classical box sets.


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## Fenestella

Mandryka said:


> The tension, like highly strung nervous tension, makes it very distinctive.


Always an honor to meet connoisseurs who understand the esoterica of Barere's pianism because his pianism is kinda like the Greco-Roman mysteries - the exoterica (fast & furious) are for the many, the esoterica are for the few.


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## robert vetter

*Beethoven and Annie Fisher*

Thanx for info on Annie Fisher and I will seek her recordings----only familiar with Brendel, Hengerford, etc.


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## JCLEUNG

Anton Kuerti is great


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## kangxi

KenOC said:


> I agree on Goodyear's excellent Beethoven cycle. Those interested should know it can be had, as a download, for $5.99. Amazing, that! These are 320K MP3s.
> 
> https://us.7digital.com/artist/stew...te-piano-sonatas-1946009?f=20,19,12,16,17,9,2


KenOC - many thanks for the recommendation. Paid and downloaded a couple of days ago: what a bargain!


----------



## Roger Knox

Traverso said:


> Ashkenazy


I heard Ashkenazy around 1971 play a concert of 109, 110, and 111. His playing was exquisitely focused, the audience spellbound. Not saying he was the best -- there can never be a best for these multi-faceted compositions.


----------



## Roger Knox

JCLEUNG said:


> Anton Kuerti is great


It is so sad that he suffered a stroke and is no longer active. My prayers go out for Anton Kuerti, a great Beethoven pianist.


----------



## Triplets

AClockworkOrange said:


> I have a few gaps to put it mildly, I have only heard Ronald Brautigam, Daniel Barenboim and one by Claudio Arrau.
> 
> Brautigam is presently my favourite by a margin - I especially enjoy the fortepiano here (as in his Haydn & Mozart), but I also enjoy Barenboim's EMI set. I need to hear more Arrau but I really enjoyed the Sonata I heard.
> 
> On my to listen list at some point are Murray Perahia, Alfred Brendel and Rudolf Serkin.


I really enjoy the Brautigan set. I generally don't care for the sound of the fortepiano but Brautigan plays with with total abandon and seems to be pushing the instrument to its limits, which in my imagination is the way that Beethoven would have sounded.
My introduction to Op.110 & 111 was from a Gary Graffman disc in the mid 70s. I still have the 'First Love' feeling when I play it but generally I turn to Arrau, Fischer, and Richard Goode in the late works. Pollini is a Pianist that I otherwise admire but his late Beethoven set on DG left me feeling cold. Serkin is admirable but a bit brusque. Kempff is great in the early works but occasionally sounds strained in the late works. I have not kept up with younger sets such as Goodyear.


----------



## jegreenwood

Triplets said:


> I really enjoy the Brautigan set. I generally don't care for the sound of the fortepiano but Brautigan plays with with total abandon and seems to be pushing the instrument to its limits, which in my imagination is the way that Beethoven would have sounded.
> My introduction to Op.110 & 111 was from a Gary Graffman disc in the mid 70s. I still have the 'First Love' feeling when I play it but generally I turn to Arrau, Fischer, and Richard Goode in the late works. Pollini is a Pianist that I otherwise admire but his late Beethoven set on DG left me feeling cold. Serkin is admirable but a bit brusque. Kempff is great in the early works but occasionally sounds strained in the late works. I have not kept up with younger sets such as Goodyear.


I was going to wait to post on this thread, but Triplets' entry inspired me.

I've been engaged in a project for two months now. Each day I listen to a movement of a Beethoven sonata. Five times:

Arrau
Brendel (second cycle)
Kempff (mono)
Annie Fischer
Goode

I also listen to the relevant portion of Andras Schiff's Wigmore lectures and read the relevant portion of Charles Rosen's book on the sonatas. I follow the scores while I listen. I listen mostly though headphones - specifically AKG 701s which are very analytical.

I am proceeding in order. I just finished the Pastoral, and I am about to go traveling for two weeks, so I will take a break. My purpose has been to dig deeper into the music, and not really to assess a favorite performer, but of course I have preferences. I am looking forward to reaching the late sonatas (in December if things go as planned). I may have to vary my procedures a bit. I'm not sure if I'm up to listening to the Adagio of the Hammerklavier 5 times in a row - plus Schff's lecture, which is probably longer than the movement.

I will report back once have finished.


----------



## Guest

After re-listening to Pollini's set on LP, I may have to move it to the top. Such commanding playing is hard to ignore...and he's not all about muscular attack and technique...the quiet, other-worldly passages are breathtaking, too.

Now, if only Daniil Trifonov would record them.


----------



## Triplets

jegreenwood said:


> I was going to wait to post on this thread, but Triplets' entry inspired me.
> 
> I've been engaged in a project for two months now. Each day I listen to a movement of a Beethoven sonata. Five times:
> 
> Arrau
> Brendel (second cycle)
> Kempff (mono)
> Annie Fischer
> Goode
> 
> I also listen to the relevant portion of Andras Schiff's Wigmore lectures and read the relevant portion of Charles Rosen's book on the sonatas. I follow the scores while I listen. I listen mostly though headphones - specifically AKG 701s which are very analytical.
> 
> I am proceeding in order. I just finished the Pastoral, and I am about to go traveling for two weeks, so I will take a break. My purpose has been to dig deeper into the music, and not really to assess a favorite performer, but of course I have preferences. I am looking forward to reaching the late sonatas (in December if things go as planned). I may have to vary my procedures a bit. I'm not sure if I'm up to listening to the Adagio of the Hammerklavier 5 times in a row - plus Schff's lecture, which is probably longer than the movement.
> 
> I will report back once have finished.


I am impressed by your discipline. I have sometimes played the same Sonata consecutively played by different performers but I don't think that I could limit myself to one movement at a time, because usually these works just don't satisfy unless heard in toto.
I forgot to mention Brendel. I had bought the big Brendel box a few months ago and had played through the Beethoven. It's such an improvement over the Vox recordings, but I believe that he made 3 cycles altogether. Which are you listening to.


----------



## jegreenwood

Triplets said:


> I am impressed by your discipline. I have sometimes played the same Sonata consecutively played by different performers but I don't think that I could limit myself to one movement at a time, because usually these works just don't satisfy unless heard in toto.
> I forgot to mention Brendel. I had bought the big Brendel box a few months ago and had played through the Beethoven. It's such an improvement over the Vox recordings, but I believe that he made 3 cycles altogether. Which are you listening to.


Brendel - first cycle for Philips,

I've listened to the sonatas as complete works for over 4 decades. This is my attempt to re-introduce them to myself in a new manner. It comes at a time when I am taking classes in music theory and helps me dig more deeply (or get more granular - to use a word I hate) into the works.


----------



## Jerry

Many thanks for all the recommendations here, I shall be following many of them up.

Not sure if Michael Houstoun has been mentioned among the more recent recordings - his late sonatas are excellent.
Also Eric La Sage.


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## agoukass

For Opp. 109 and 110, I've always enjoyed the recordings that were made by Yvonne Lefebure (1898-1986). She was a student of Alfred Cortot and collaborated with Casals for many years. These were the recordings that made Beethoven's late period accessible to me. They're on a two disc set from EMI that has been out of the catalog for a very long time, but I'm sure that it could be found. 

Of late, I've really enjoyed Glenn Gould's performances of the last three sonatas. Many critics thought that they were extremely unorthodox when they were first released, but I find that they are beautifully rendered. There are many beautiful moments throughout, but my favorite is how Glenn Gould plays Op. 111's Arietta.


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## FriellaNawl

*Beethoven late sonatas Your favorite interpreters*

My favorite run of three is Op. 53 "Waldstein," Op. 54, and Op. 57 "Appassionata." All from Op. 90 on are superb. I really like Op. 31 nos. 2 & 3 as well. Don't want to do the tier thing.


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## mrravioli

Pogorelich for Op.111


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## srjones10

I have a particular fascination with the Gould performances of the sonatas, especially 23.

My other favorite is the Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich cycle. I am very fond of his performances of the Piano Concertos as well.

Two sets of interpretations of Beethoven could not be more different in concept as those of these two pianists.


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## srjones10

Alfred Brendel is underappreciated in general. I consider his performances very rubust and technically skillful if not especially novel.


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## AfterHours

I've heard a gazillion renditions, but these are the ones that stand out to me as the very best of the best. I listed them in order of my favorite Beethoven sonatas until I'd included each of the late ones. If I kept going, I'd have to include several other sonatas, of course:

Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor (1822) / Claudio Arrau (1960) 
Spotify: http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/12/5060244551220_600.jpg

Piano Sonata No. 23 in F Minor "Appassionata" (1805) / Claudio Arrau (1960s???)
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1820) / Claudio Arrau (1960s???)
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 29 in B-flat Major "Hammerklavier" (1818) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978)
Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 31 in A-flat Major (1821) / Claudio Arrau (1960) 
Spotify: http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/12/5060244551220_600.jpg
Youtube - 1st Mov: 



Youtube - 2nd Mov: 



Youtube - 3rd Mov, Part 1: 



Youtube - 3rd Mov, Part 2: 




Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor "Pathetique" (1798) / Emil Gilels (1980)
Spotify: https://images.shazam.com/coverart/t56019445-b1092578542_s400.jpg
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 21 in C Major "Waldstein" (1804) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978) 
Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp Minor "Quasi una fantasia" (aka, "Moonlight") (1801) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978) 
Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major (1816) / Wilhelm Kempff (1964)
Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61NXlje2DPL._SY355_.jpg
Youtube: 




Piano Sonata No. 27 in E Minor (1814) / Ivan Moravec (1964)
Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DVwV7NwTL._SX425_.jpg


----------



## Mandryka

AfterHours said:


> I've heard a gazillion renditions, but these are the ones that stand out to me as the very best of the best. I listed them in order of my favorite Beethoven sonatas until I'd included each of the late ones. If I kept going, I'd have to include several other sonatas, of course:
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor (1822) / Claudio Arrau (1960)
> Spotify: http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/12/5060244551220_600.jpg
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 23 in F Minor "Appassionata" (1805) / Claudio Arrau (1960s???)
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1820) / Claudio Arrau (1960s???)
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 29 in B-flat Major "Hammerklavier" (1818) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978)
> Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 31 in A-flat Major (1821) / Claudio Arrau (1960)
> Spotify: http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/12/5060244551220_600.jpg
> Youtube - 1st Mov:
> 
> 
> 
> Youtube - 2nd Mov:
> 
> 
> 
> Youtube - 3rd Mov, Part 1:
> 
> 
> 
> Youtube - 3rd Mov, Part 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor "Pathetique" (1798) / Emil Gilels (1980)
> Spotify: https://images.shazam.com/coverart/t56019445-b1092578542_s400.jpg
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 21 in C Major "Waldstein" (1804) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978)
> Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp Minor "Quasi una fantasia" (aka, "Moonlight") (1801) / Annie Fischer (1977-1978)
> Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NwD5T3-SL.jpg
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major (1816) / Wilhelm Kempff (1964)
> Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61NXlje2DPL._SY355_.jpg
> Youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Piano Sonata No. 27 in E Minor (1814) / Ivan Moravec (1964)
> Spotify: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DVwV7NwTL._SX425_.jpg


Arrau's Appassionata is really special, a lot of these picks are very good I think.


----------



## KenOC

Since this thread specifies late sonatas, I'll put in a plug for Igor Levit, very fine performances that I have only liked better since they were released four years ago. Levit is just 30 this year!


----------



## Bulldog

KenOC said:


> Since this thread specifies late sonatas, I'll put in a plug for Igor Levit, very fine performances that I have only liked better since they were released four years ago.


Has it really been four years? Seems like just a couple to me; time keeps moving faster.


----------



## AfterHours

Mandryka said:


> Arrau's Appassionata is really special, a lot of these picks are very good I think.


Arrau is the greatest interpreter of Beethoven's sonatas. Fischer is the only pianist that can compare.

Arrau, beyond anyone else, in his peak interpretations:

(1) Has superior thrust and strength of hands -- each finger! -- necessary to relay the emotional conviction in the most powerful passages
(2) Has the depth of tone -- not so dependent on the "reverberation" of the piano itself, but by strength of hand and pressure (beyond anyone else, save perhaps Fischer), necessary to relay the full measure of impact and the profound poetry of Beethoven's lyricism, _in each stroke_ throughout the entire composition.
(3) Plays as if his life depends on it. His technique is very formidable but not so "automatic" and "effortless" as to lose most of the tension! Many of today's top pianists are technically "perfect" but one of the biggest factors to successfully relaying Beethoven is to relay struggle/emotional conflict/the tension between different keys and parts of the composition/the duality of man! The tension Arrau builds is _unbelievable_ and _without peer_ (save only perhaps Fischer's greatest interpretations). 
(4) He plays "architecturally", building the notes and passages, one on top or after the other, giving the work an emotional and conceptual momentum, breadth and scope like no one else before or sense (save perhaps Richter's greatest interpretations), particularly when combined with the inimitable qualities and combination of (1), (2) and (3). It is as if he is discovering the composition newly and building it as it is unfolding in front of us, causing a "cognitive domino effect" to play out. This gives each passage a sense that it is being communicated anew, that each is an epiphany, as if Beethoven himself is unveiling it for the first time.


----------



## Mandryka

KenOC said:


> Since this thread specifies late sonatas, I'll put in a plug for Igor Levit, very fine performances that I have only liked better since they were released four years ago. Levit is just 30 this year!


I've not heard the recordings, at least not attentively, I saw him do a Beethoven cycle in London. It was full of contrasts, very exaggerated contrasts, especially dynamic, a friend of mine, a pianist, thinks that's a natural way to play Beethoven. If anyone played Mozart like that - Bezuidenhout maybe in his first CD, the one called Sturm und Drang - I'd say it was immature. I have to say I'm glad I saw him. The thing that makes me think that he's a pianist to watch is that occasionally there would be very light and playful moments, impish, the sort of thing you expect to hear more in Mendelssohn or Prokofiev than in Beethoven, I caught a glimpse of something fresh there.


----------



## arnerich

Vladimir Feltsman's op 111 is my choice.


----------



## AfterHours

arnerich said:


> Vladimir Feltsman's op 111 is my choice.


Don't think I've heard that one. Will have to check it out. Arrau's op 111 is the summit imo (especially the one listed above), with Pollini's (from his complete set) Kempff's (from his complete DG set), and possibly 1970s Brendel following... I also like Goode's and Paul Lewis and Igor Levit's renditions quite a lot. Dozens of others are very good-to-great. Always looking for more to add to my top recommendations


----------



## AfterHours

Oh yeah, I might include Stewart Goodyear's op. 111 with the above top choices


----------



## Donna Elvira

I haven't heard it for a long time, because her renditions are not in my collection, but I also rated Fischer's op. 111 at the top, only surpassed, IMHO, by Katchen.
I have not heard him in other Beethoven Late Sonatas but in that one, one of my favorite works for piano solo, he's tops.
Gulda's is also a very good rendition.
Pollini is very good in all the late sonatas, as most seem to agree.


----------



## Donna Elvira

Your post makes me want to hear Arrau again in the Beethoven Sonatas.
Was not lucky enough to hear them all by him but he was at the top in several for me and less so in some others.
Perhaps, now, when my listening skills and listening experience have matured somewhat, I would better appreciate them.
Thanks for pointing out salient features.
This was a replyto After Hous


----------



## AfterHours

Donna Elvira said:


> Your post makes me want to hear Arrau again in the Beethoven Sonatas.
> Was not lucky enough to hear them all by him but he was at the top in several for me and less so in some others.
> Perhaps, now, when my listening skills and listening experience have matured somewhat, I would better appreciate them.
> Thanks for pointing out salient features.
> This was a replyto After Hous


You're welcome :tiphat:


----------



## Josquin13

Rudolf Serkin (especially in Sonatas nos. 30 & 31 from his 'unreleased' studio recordings on Sony), Emil Gilels (especially live, such as his final 1984 performance of the Hammerclavier in Moscow), Sviatoslav Richter, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (what little can be found--his Op. 111), Solomon, Bruno-Leonardo Gelber, & Annie Fischer are all favorites of mine in Beethoven's Late Piano Sonatas (& in the sonata cycle in general). Miecyslaw Horszowski can be very interesting too, along with Alfred Brendel and Claude Frank, and the early recordings of Vladimir Ashkenazy--though not Ashkenazy's later digital ones, which I find strangely uninterpreted and lacking in content. (I dislike Richard Goode's late Beethoven for the same reason.) Personally, I prefer Claudio Arrau more in the Piano Concertos 1-5 than in the sonatas, especially Arrau's 'benchmark' recordings with Haitink & Galliera, but also parts of his later PC set with Davis in Dresden. 

Although, with that said, I have a problem with pianists that play the opening movement of the Hammerklavier contrary to Beethoven's metronome markings, i.e., too slowly. Other than Artur Schnabel, who at least tried, most of the older pianists seem to follow Wilhelm Kempff's example, who said that the deaf Beethoven could not have possibly known what he was asking for. There is an excellent, illuminating lecture/demonstration on the subject by pianist Andras Schiff on You Tube that is very recommendable, and should change people's understanding of the first movement. I consider it essential viewing for Beethoven fans. If memory serves, Igor Levit gets close to Beethoven's markings in this movement, as does Stewart Goodyear (who I've not heard), & I gather Schiff as well, among today's pianists. (Oddly enough, I've not overly liked what I've heard of Schiff's Beethoven sonatas so far, despite that he's very good in the PCs with Haitink & the Staatskapelle Dresden, and that his lectures on the sonatas are terrific.)

On a historical piano, which allows for pianists to find a crucial clarity in the complex fugue of the Hammerklavier--a movement that too often sounds unwieldy & overly resonance on a modern grand--i.e., it can become a clangorous mess (except with Levit & several others)--I've enjoyed Ronald Brautigam. I've also liked Penelope Crawford in the late sonatas, however, I've not heard any other period specialists.

Last week, I ordered Jean Müller's live Beethoven cycle, which has been reissued at a bargain price (about $20 including shipping), and am looking forward to hearing what he does with the late sonatas. Judging from Müller's recent Bach, I expect he'll be able to pull off the fugue in the Hammerklavier with greater clarity than most.


----------



## AfterHours

Josquin13 said:


> Rudolf Serkin (especially in Sonatas nos. 30 & 31 from his 'unreleased' studio recordings on Sony), Emil Gilels (especially live, such as his final 1984 performance of the Hammerclavier in Moscow), Sviatoslav Richter, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli (what little can be found--his Op. 111), Solomon, Bruno-Leonardo Gelber, & Annie Fischer are all favorites of mine in Beethoven's Late Piano Sonatas (& in the sonata cycle in general). Miecyslaw Horszowski can be very interesting too, along with Alfred Brendel and Claude Frank, and the early recordings of Vladimir Ashkenazy--though not Ashkenazy's later digital ones, which I find strangely uninterpreted and lacking in content. (I dislike Richard Goode's late Beethoven for the same reason.) Personally, I prefer Claudio Arrau more in the Piano Concertos 1-5 than in the sonatas, especially Arrau's 'benchmark' recordings with Haitink & Galliera, but also parts of his later PC set with Davis in Dresden.
> 
> Although, with that said, I have a problem with pianists that play the opening movement of the Hammerklavier contrary to Beethoven's metronome markings, i.e., too slowly. Other than Artur Schnabel, who at least tried, most of the older pianists seem to follow Wilhelm Kempff's example, who said that the deaf Beethoven could not have possibly known what he was asking for. There is an excellent, illuminating lecture/demonstration on the subject by pianist Andras Schiff on You Tube that is very recommendable, and should change people's understanding of the first movement. I consider it essential viewing for Beethoven fans. If memory serves, Igor Levit gets close to Beethoven's markings in this movement, as does Stewart Goodyear (who I've not heard), & I gather Schiff as well, among today's pianists. (Oddly enough, I've not overly liked what I've heard of Schiff's Beethoven sonatas so far, despite that he's very good in the PCs with Haitink & the Staatskapelle Dresden, and that his lectures on the sonatas are terrific.)
> 
> On a historical piano, which allows for pianists to find a crucial clarity in the complex fugue of the Hammerklavier--a movement that too often sounds unwieldy & overly resonance on a modern grand--i.e., it can become a clangorous mess (except with Levit & several others)--I've enjoyed Ronald Brautigam. I've also liked Penelope Crawford in the late sonatas, however, I've not heard any other period specialists.
> 
> Last week, I ordered Jean Müller's live Beethoven cycle, which has been reissued at a bargain price (about $20 including shipping), and am looking forward to hearing what he does with the late sonatas. Judging from Müller's recent Bach, I expect he'll be able to pull off the fugue in the Hammerklavier with greater clarity than most.


I like all the choices you mention quite a bit. And Arrau/Davis (especially) in the Beethoven concertos, are extraordinary.

Goodyear does indeed meet Beethoven's metronome markings on the Hammerklavier -- cleanly and impressively -- and it is an excellent rendition. I'd probably place it around the 3rd tier (something like that) of great recordings. That said, Annie Fischer's blows it out of the water and will probably never be surpassed. _Nobody_ -- not even Arrau -- has equaled Fischer's intensity. She comes pretty darn close to the metronome mark anyway, but far more importantly, her frantic, seething, exasperated, angular strikes and the passion and tension she captures (not to mention the overwhelming profundity of the Adagio) is so astonishing that I don't think there is any other rendition that needs to be heard -- all comparisons fall by the wayside (and I say that, having myself heard many, many versions). Arrau's, imo, does approach it in various respects (maybe even surpassing Fischer's Adagio, and approaching or perhaps matching her last movement), but I don't think even he matches her overall. I don't think Gilels, Schnabel, et al, can seriously be considered in relation to hers, even though they are great in their own right and well worth hearing. Fischer, in this sonata, is just on a completely different level than anyone else.

Anyway, the main thing I was really trying to say is that Fischer's, because it builds such momentous intensity, does not necessarily sound slower than those such as Goodyear that are technically closer to the metronome mark. Tempo could be argued to be really made by both speed _and_ conviction/ferocity, especially in these works.


----------



## chesapeake bay

Phew someone finally posted Beveridge Websters Hammerklavier on youtube its only available on a Dover LP, check it out


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## AfterHours

chesapeake bay said:


> Phew someone finally posted Beveridge Websters Hammerklavier on youtube its only available on a Dover LP, check it out


Wow, I don't believe I've ever heard this one. Initial impression of the first movement is that I should definitely sit down and listen to this one in its entirety :tiphat:


----------



## Josquin13

After Hours writes, "Anyway, the main thing I was really trying to say is that Fischer's, because it builds such momentous intensity, does not necessarily sound slower than those such as Goodyear that are technically closer to the metronome mark. Tempo could be argued to be really made by both speed and conviction/ferocity, especially in these works."

Good points. Yes, I certainly agree with you about the conviction and intensity of Annie Fischer's Hammerklavier. I remember years ago I listened to every recording of the Hammerklavier in my collection (which is quite a lot), and in the end decided the three pianists that had the deepest insights into the work were Annie Fischer, Sviatoslav Richter--whose adagio is incredibly concentrated on his Stradivarius recording, and Solomon. Although these days I don't know if I really believe in 'definitive' recordings as much as I used to, since other pianists have further added to my understanding of the sonata, & each in a different way.

But, speaking of arguably 'definitive' recordings--do you know Annie Fischer's Beethoven PC #3 with Fricsay? For me, it has the same kind of intensity and poetry as her Hammerklavier, and is one of the finest recordings I've ever heard of that work--one for my desert island. (I actually bought the whole Fricsay DG set just to own that one recording.)

Beveridge Webster is another pianist that takes Beethoven's metronome markings to heart. I like his Hammerklavier, & find it very interesting. Although the truth is I still haven't found a pianist that really plays the opening movement in the way I hear it in my mind.

If anyone's interested, here's a link to the 1984 live Emil Gilel's performance from Moscow that I mentioned earlier. It's another very spirited, imaginative performance, and I think more interesting than Gilel's DG studio account (as he was often better in concert):


----------



## Holden4th

chesapeake bay said:


> Phew someone finally posted Beveridge Websters Hammerklavier on youtube its only available on a Dover LP, check it out


This is amazing. I've heard other pianists try to play the first mvt somewhere near LvBs metronome markings and produce nothing but a jumbled blur and whir of notes with little or no coherence. What makes this stand out is the clarity that Webster achieves. I really like it. The second movement is also very good though I have heard the Adagio sostenuto played better than this.


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## srjones10

Valentina Lisitsa gives an impressive reading of the sonatas. I don't know how I missed this, apparently she is nothing short of a YouTube phenomenon:


----------



## staxomega

I am going to have to add Serkin's post-humous Op.110 as one of my favorite performances of this piece. 

And now that I have the Gilels 100th Anniversary Melodiya box his 1984 live recording of the Hammerklavier.


----------



## Phil D

Solomon, Goode and Levit, for me.


----------



## KenOC

Phil D said:


> Solomon, Goode and Levit, for me.


Great choices all! I just listened to Beveridge Webster's Hammerklavier and now I'm exhausted, feel like I've been pulled through a knothole. An amazing performance. Now for Ms. Lisitsa, who I somehow don't associate with Beethoven. Here goes!


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## Mandryka

Anyone here heard the new Osborne recording? Comments appreciated if you have


----------



## Xisten267

Goode, Ashkenazy and Brendel for me. I really like Lisitsa's _Hammerklavier_.


----------



## AnthonyAlcott

For very different reasons, but I like them all:

Alfred Brendel
Sviatoslav Richter
Richard Goode
Igor Levit
Michael Korstick
Wilhelm Kempff


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## EdwardBast

Allerius said:


> Goode, Ashkenazy and Brendel for me. I really like Lisitsa's _Hammerklavier_.


+1 I would go with all of your picks. I have also really enjoyed Fischer and Gilels.


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## Josquin13

Here's my revised list from the post that I made on the previous page (back in 2017), as there have been some additions to my list of favorites in the Late Sonatas (an asterisk *=desert island discs):

1. Rudolf Serkin: 30, 31--The Sony 'unreleased' studio recordings--my favorite 30*, 31* (in addition to Youra Guller's brilliant 31*): 




2. Youra Guller: 31*, 32*:
No. 31: 



No. 32: 




3. Sviatoslav Richter: 29 Hammerklavier--Prague* & London*: 



, 30*, 31*, 32*: His live recording in Leipzig in 1963:





https://www.amazon.com/Richter-Leip...0,+31,+32&qid=1557686684&s=music&sr=1-1-fkmr0

and the later live recordings--in the Great Pianists series: https://www.amazon.com/Sviatoslav-R...ethoven&qid=1557686379&s=music&sr=1-1-catcorr (also on Decca/Philips "authorized recordings"??: https://www.amazon.com/Richter-Mast...31,+32&qid=1557686684&s=music&sr=1-2-fkmrnull).

Russian Revelation: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-La...thoven+russian&qid=1557686529&s=music&sr=1-10,

Doremi: https://www.amazon.com/RICHTER-ARCH...31,+32&qid=1557686684&s=music&sr=1-3-fkmrnull

& Live Classics: "Out of the Later Years": https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Pi...the+later+years&qid=1557687052&s=music&sr=1-9

4. Solomon (Cutner): *28-32*--(Solomon's Hammerklavier is my favorite, along with Sviatoslav Richter and Annie Fischer's--as they are the three most emotionally intense pianists I know in the slow movement (as well as Gilels live in Moscow, 1984): 




5. Annie Fischer: *28-32* (EMI & Hungaroton): 




https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B00005UOMP

6. Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli: 32*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTPgaK9L1k8: It's a pity that Michelangeli didn't record more Beethoven Piano Sonatas, as his playing was near ideal for this music.

7. Bruno-Leonardo Gelber: 28*: 



, 32: It's also a pity that Gelber was never able to finish his excellent cycle for Denon.

6. Ivo Pogorelich: 32*: 




9. Emil Gilels: 28*: 



, 29 Hammerclavier (1984 Moscow*: 



), 30*, 31*:










10. Wilhelm Kempff--the APR pre-war 78 RPM recordings of the Late Sonatas *28-32*, which are easily the best I've heard from Kempff, both technically & artistically: 




11. Michael Korstick: 29 "Hammerclavier": 



 now want to hear the rest of Korstick's Beethoven recordings...

12. Beveridge Webster: 29 "Hammerclavier"*: 




13. Mieczyslaw Horszowski: 29 "Hammerklavier": 



, 30, 31:









Lately, I've also been enjoying listening to Glenn Gould's Beethoven, which is admittedly different, or more individualistic, but very interesting: 30, 31, 32: 




Other excellent sets:

Alfred Brendel (on Philips): 28-32
Maurizio Pollini: 28-32
Claudio Arrau: 28-32
Wilhelm Kempff (mono, DG cycle): 28-32
Wilhelm Backhaus (Decca cycle)
Igor Levit: 28-32

On period pianos:

Ronald Brautigam (period): 29 "Hammerclavier"*--for the remarkable clarity of his fugue playing in the 4th movement: 




Penelope Crawford (period): 30, 31, 32: 




Steven Osborne's new set is getting rave reviews...


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## infracave

My favorite "recording" (okay, it's just a live performance filmed with a phone) of the Hammerklavier's fugue is by Stephen Beus.





Does anyone know someone who actually recorded this fugue at the same breakneck speed ?

I really love the feeling of urgency that it gives, as if the whole piece could just collapse at any given moment just to be saved in extremis by the irresistble thrust of the theme.


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## Mandryka

I think Beus is a good pianist,


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## infracave

Mandryka said:


> I think Beus is a good pianist,


I hope so, people are actually paying to see him play. The opposite of myself. ^^

However, he only ever performed the hammerklavier live, he has never recorded it.


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## Heliogabo

I see no mentions for Uchida here.
Well, I was not a fan of her Beethoven, but her late sonatas are great, to my taste. Beautiful played, a highly spiritual reading.


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## flamencosketches

Frankly, I haven't heard a Hammerklavier that I've really liked. I'm not quite sold on that sonata, not compared to 30, 31, and 32 anyway (and several of the middle sonatas). I've heard Kempff, Schnabel, and Maria Yudina (all three good, just none of them has really convinced me of its greatness).


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## Mandryka

The first movement is a problem for me partly because it doesn't seem interesting to hear contrapuntally or even harmonically.

Just a basic thing I want to suggest, see what people think. One essential aspect of the first movement of 106 is that the bass registers in the piano are really powerful. Just recently it was listening to Nikolai Demidenko play it and Stephen Osborne play it which started to make me think this, Demidenko much more successful I'd say partly because of the bass.

Another thing about the first movement is to do with contrast and nuance - if it's just played for energy I don't enjoy it. It's a bit like the first movement of op 111 in that way.

Do try Demidenko's if you can, another special one is Backhaus







.


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## Rogerx

I am waiting patiently for the new set by Igor Levit, until then; Brendel / Barenboim.


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## KenOC

The Hammerklavier is surely a "great" sonata, but I've gotta be in the mood for it. It's a bit strenous to listen to! Normally, I'll pick any of the trio of sonatas that follow -- well, Opp. 109 or 110 anyway. Op. 111 is strenuous in its own way... 

Interesting performances:

Op. 106 -- Beveridge Webster
Opp. 109, 110 -- Dame Myra Hess
Op. 111 -- Ivo Pogorelich


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## Guest

I've been listening to Andrea Lucchesini's recordings of them lately--they are near the top of my list now.


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## flamencosketches

I just picked up Pollini’s late Beethoven sonatas for $5 total. I’ll write back with what I think. Excited to hear his famous Hammerklavier.


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## CnC Bartok

I must confess to having gone off Pollini in the late sonatas. I had them on LP when they first came out, to much fanfare and awards aplenty, and probably I played them to death. It was a lovely box too! For me they are a little bit too polished, technically no question of superbness, but there are others in whose interpretations I find that little bit more magic. Definitely don't want to put you off, though!

I have to confess to liking Kempff in the late sonatas (second, stereo cycle), and of oldies, Solomon. Lill is capable of some wonderful touches too, as is (naturally) Claudio Arrau.


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## flamencosketches

No matter, I'm not looking for a single definitive interpretation (that would be impossible). Just trying to see what's out there. I like Pollini a lot in other works but have not heard much of his Beethoven. This one was so cheap I had to go for it.


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## lextune

infracave said:


> My favorite "recording" (okay, it's just a live performance filmed with a phone) of the Hammerklavier's fugue is by Stephen Beus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know someone who actually recorded this fugue at the same breakneck speed ?
> 
> I really love the feeling of urgency that it gives, as if the whole piece could just collapse at any given moment just to be saved in extremis by the irresistble thrust of the theme.


I'm sorry, but this is just absolutely awful, and completely wrong-headed. It is so pointlessly fast that all the voices, which should sing out with bell-like clarity go by in a mindless rush. I guess he is trying to impress? (Ahh the folly of youth), but what he does not realize is that it is actually much more difficult, (and FAR more musical) to play the fugue and have it sing (proclaim) it's theme out clearly each time, than to play it at such an out of control tempo.

I posted in this thread on the first page a few years back, and after nearly 50 years of studying, playing, and performing the Beethoven Sonatas, I will stick with the recommendation I posted there...

Arrau
Brendel
Goode
Pollini
Serkin
Schnabel
Backhaus
Solomon
Gilels
Kempff
Barenboim
Schiff
Fischer
Richter


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## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> No matter, I'm not looking for a single definitive interpretation (that would be impossible). Just trying to see what's out there. I like Pollini a lot in other works but have not heard much of his Beethoven. This one was so cheap I had to go for it.


That set is my gold standard, although there are many others that I also enjoy.


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## Mandryka

lextune said:


> I'm sorry, but this is just absolutely awful, and completely wrong-headed. It is so pointlessly fast that all the voices, which should sing out with bell-like clarity go by in a mindless rush. I guess he is trying to impress? (Ahh the folly of youth), but what he does not realize is that it is actually much more difficult, (and FAR more musical) to play the fugue and have it sing (proclaim) it's theme out clearly each time, than to play it at such an out of control tempo.
> 
> I posted in this thread on the first page a few years back, and after nearly 50 years of studying, playing, and performing the Beethoven Sonatas, I will stick with the recommendation I posted there...
> 
> Arrau
> Brendel
> Goode
> Pollini
> Serkin
> Schnabel
> Backhaus
> Solomon
> Gilels
> Kempff
> Barenboim
> Schiff
> Fischer
> Richter


Annie or Edward?
Rudolph or Peter?
Karl Ulrich or Artur?
Fredie or Wilhelm?
Cutner or Yonty?
Sviatoslav or Hans . . . Haaser?


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## lextune

Mandryka said:


> Annie or Edward?
> Rudolph or Peter?
> Karl Ulrich or Artur?
> Fredie or Wilhelm?
> Cutner or Yonty?
> Sviatoslav or Hans . . . Haaser?


Ha! Nice.

Annie.
Rudolf, (although Peter can be quite wonderful too, I honestly just don't know his Beethoven).
Artur.
Wilhelm.
Cutner.
Sviatoslav, (often my go to for almost anything he played, but oddly, his Beethoven Op.110 is quite off-putting, the other late Sonatas are his usual high quality).


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## Mandryka

lextune said:


> Ha! Nice.
> 
> Annie.
> Rudolf, (although Peter can be quite wonderful too, I honestly just don't know his Beethoven).
> Artur.
> Wilhelm.
> Cutner.
> Sviatoslav, (often my go to for almost anything he played, but oddly, his Beethoven Op.110 is quite off-putting, the other late Sonatas are his usual high quality).


Sorry about that, I couldn't stop myself.

You should try this, I think it's very good (in op 106 for example)


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> Sorry about that, I couldn't stop myself.
> 
> You should try this, I think it's very good (in op 106 for example)
> 
> View attachment 120969


I always see this at my local record store, there's a used copy for about $4, I always almost buy it and end up passing it up. Your mild recommendation has pushed me over the edge. Next time I hit up that store I will be getting this. Well done.


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## KenOC

flamencosketches said:


> I always see this at my local record store, there's a used copy for about $4, I always almost buy it and end up passing it up. Your mild recommendation has pushed me over the edge. Next time I hit up that store I will be getting this. Well done.


The Peter Serkin fortepiano cycle of the late sonatas is on YouTube in its entirety if you want to check it out. I recommend it.


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## wkasimer

flamencosketches said:


> I always see this at my local record store, there's a used copy for about $4, I always almost buy it and end up passing it up.


If I saw this priced at $4, I'd buy it in order to have a second copy, just in case I were to misplace the first one. This set is terrific - better, I think, than Serkin's recordings on a modern piano.


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## starthrower

Also on YouTube Annie Fischer's late 70s set. A good thing if like me you don't have a hundred dollars to spare for the CDs.


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## Rubens

Brendel on Philips 1970s


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## flamencosketches

Can someone tell me of a Hammerklavier played at an extremely slow tempo...? In András Schiff’s lecture he described how it was common for pianists to play the first movement much slower than indicated, some even playing it at half speed. And by the way, just go ahead and check his lecture on it if you haven’t already. Extremely illuminating. 

I think it sounds way better when played as fast as humanly possible, à la Schnabel. I’m just asking out of curiosity.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> Can someone tell me of a Hammerklavier played at an extremely slow tempo...?.


You may be interested in this even though it's old now

https://simpk.de/en/5_autograph_tempo_in_beethoven%92s_%93hammerklavier_sonata%94_1321.html

It misses some obvious ones (Nikolayeva, for example, takes the first movement slowly, as does Sokolov, Aimard, Glen Gould, Bernard Roberts, Emil Gilels, Frederic Rzewski (at least in elapsed time), Ernst Levy, Backhaus, Loriod, Lucchesini, Jumppanen . . . )


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## flamencosketches

Mandryka said:


> You may be interested in this even though it's old now
> 
> https://simpk.de/en/5_autograph_tempo_in_beethoven%92s_%93hammerklavier_sonata%94_1321.html
> 
> It misses some obvious ones (Nikolayeva, for example, takes the first movement slowly, as does Sokolov, Aimard, Glen Gould, Bernard Roberts, Emil Gilels, Frederic Rzewski (at least in elapsed time), Ernst Levy, Backhaus, Loriod, Lucchesini, Jumppanen . . . )


Nikolayeva and Gould are indeed on the list, in last place  Leave it to Gould... I'll have to hear his recording. Thanks for the link, this is fascinating.


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## Mandryka

I think you should listen to the Rzewsky, it's got a lot of improvisation in it, but put that aside, the inflections - dynamic inflections and ornamentation - make the music very poetic in the first movement. It's on YouTube,

Personally I can't bear the Schnabel, not because it's fast or because he loses control, but because he really bangs his way through it, gauche, inelegant, fast and loud. If you want a fast first movement, maybe try Michael Korstick or Beveridge Webster.

By the way, I discovered a really good recording of it today in sound terms by a pianist who is new to me, Mindru Katz. He was a star in Israel, died young in the 1970s.


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## flamencosketches

I love the Schnabel. Gauche, inelegant? Are we listening to the same recording?!

I'll have to check out some of these pianists you name that I've never heard of. You're either hip to a lot of performers that are completely forgotten by most, or I'm just too young.


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## Mandryka

Jon Sakata is another one well worth hearing IMO


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## KenOC




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