# Modern Composers most Similar to Beethoven Stylistically



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I consider modern everything after Shostakovich. Which would be my choice. But not too familiar with everything since. So what would be your choice?


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I consider modern everything after Shostakovich. Which would be my choice. But not too familiar with everything since. So what would be your choice?


There are plenty of modern composers that compose tonal music, but finding some that sound like a specific composer from centuries ago, is not very likely.

Give the following a try:

Allan Rathsorne
Jennifer Higdon
John Harbison
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Michael Daugherty
Lera Auerbach


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

There is this pianist-composer known for his Neo-Romanticism:
Symphony No. 5 First Movement segment 















Welcome back to the forum, btw.


----------



## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)

This composer does some very interesting things with a Beethovenian soundworld. It is not pastiche. He adds just enough minimalism and modernity peppered throughout to make it his own.


----------



## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)




----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I consider modern everything after Shostakovich. Which would be my choice. But not too familiar with everything since. So what would be your choice?


Chris Newman






If you're interested in Beethoven sized piano sonatas, with serious epic ambitions, then the composer I would explore if I were you is Philippe Manoury.


----------



## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I wouldn't say that Swedish composer, Anders Hillborg is normally 'Beethoven-like' in his compositions, but his Kongsgaard Variations for string quartet is indebted to Beethoven & might interest you. I can't make up my mind which of the following two recordings I like best, so I'll provide links to both,










Modern & contemporary composers tend to be more influenced by Debussy, Schoenberg, Berg, & Webern, etc., than Beethoven (except for arguably his Late String Quartets). However, I do hear something similar to a late Beethoven Quartet briefly in the third movement of Joonas Kokkonen's String Quartet No. 3: 



.

Here's the full three movement Quartet:


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Simon Moon said:


> Give the following a try:
> 
> Allan Rathsorne


Googling suggests this is a typo. Did you mean Alan Rawsthorne (1904 - 1971)? His works would fit the requirements I think (I only know his symphonies and concertos).


----------



## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> Googling suggests this is a typo. Did you mean Alan Rawsthorne (1904 - 1971)? His works would fit the requirements I think (I only know his symphonies and concertos).


Although I think I know what you mean, just out of curiosity, what would you deem the requirements of being a "Beethoven-like composer". Moderni-ish examples might be Nielsen or Tipppett, maybe?


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I have no clue what a Beethoven-like composer would be to be honest. I was just looking at Simon Moon's post, and Alan Rawsthorne seemed to fit well with his other suggestions.


----------



## christomacin (Oct 21, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> I have no clue what a Beethoven-like composer would be to be honest. I was just looking at Simon Moon's post, and Alan Rawsthorne seemed to fit well with his other suggestions.


Hmm... Might I suggest (1) rigorous symphonic development, (2) political/social consciousness, (3) music of an heroic and assertive character? Shostakovich is basically Beethoven after being mugged, and Schnittke is basically Shostakovich after being severely beaten while trying to get his wallet back.


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Rochberg* is an obvious candidate, with direct Beethoven inspiration, such as in a good deal of his _string quartets_ and not at least the _Piano Quintet,_, where the fine old Nonesuch recording isn't that easy to obtain however.

Maybe-maybe one could find similarities in *Holmboe*'s compact, somehow classically influenced ouevre as well.


----------



## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

I like the reference to Rawsthorne too ... and I also thought of Einojuhani Rautavaara and Vagn Holmboe as potenial "candidates"


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> Chris Newman
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a lot of composers today who write in the old style, but that's a serious attempt at doing Beethoven. Or ripping off Beethoven. I wonder what the point was.


----------



## Torkelburger (Jan 14, 2014)

christomacin said:


> Hmm... Might I suggest (1) rigorous symphonic development, (2) political/social consciousness, (3) music of an heroic and assertive character? Shostakovich is basically Beethoven after being mugged, and Schnittke is basically Shostakovich after being severely beaten while trying to get his wallet back.


Good point. And I would also add the following:

1.	Inevitability. No matter how experimental or daring Beethoven was, the music always sounded inevitable. Every note sounded like the perfect one. If the note(s) were replaced, they would not be as good. No matter what new idea he had come up with, it always made sense and was logical, and sounded inevitable as though no other note but that one would make sense.

Shostakovich is like this, but it goes further, in that, he does this with the form of the piece itself. Each SECTION is inevitable. Zappa once said that all composition is, is just deciding hey this part goes here and is followed by this part, and so forth. You are just putting different pieces together in accordance with what makes the most sense to you. Many people probably subscribe to that. But that is not what Shostakovich does. It is much more sophisticated than that. It's not really sectional in the sense of a Haydn minuet and trio or something. And he doesn't just "pour" music into a pre-determined form. Again, he is thinking on a deeper level than that.

A lot of people don't like that about him, as it leads to very long movements and takes a lot of patience to finally get the pay off and understand what he is doing, and that's fine. But the music he wrote demanded this type of treatment. The SECTIONS must sound inevitable. If you edited notes, phrases, pages completely out in order to trim it down to be digested more easily by living audiences, the whole effect would be ruined. It would fall apart. Because again, he is not just putting this part before this part and the parts are equal in value. Every large section in Shostakovich has a distinct purpose that is greater than the individual parts. I mean, sometimes a climax takes 5 minutes or more to get to. As a composer, I can tell you that that is darn near impossible to do. Writing a single climactic "build up" phrase over 16 bars or so is hard enough, but certainly doable. Preparing for a climax over 16 pages or 16 _minutes_ is miraculous. Yet Shostakovich had no problem doing this, time and time again.

2.	Repetition of motives. And I mean A LOT of repetition. Like Beethoven's famous 5th, Mvt. I. The reason this sticks out so much in my mind is that I am a performer. When you are given a piece of music such as the Beethoven, ALL of the repeated motives must MATCH. It goes beyond just being marked with the same dynamics if that is the case. The articulation and phrasing must sound the same throughout by all players, from player to player, and from one player with herself (unless there is a change indicated by the composer).

This is extremely important in chamber music, and easier to control. In a professional (non-academic) orchestral setting, the conductor has limited control over this. The players must be professional enough to do this on their own. They do this by listening to each other very closely. As a brass player, when I notice I have the same motif/phrase that the trumpet plays (either earlier or the same time as me), then I have to match what she did or is doing. How dry was the staccato? Did she crescendo through it? How did she tongue everything? Were there any accents? Did she aim for the downbeat or obscure it? And so on. As a jazz musician once said (what Miles told him), "You listen, then you play. You listen, then you play." But this is just as important in classical as well. As you can imagine, over the course of a whole movement and with motives repeating hundreds of times, this is extremely difficult. And Shostakovich's music has these traits often that require this type of care.

3.	Dark to light. As in both composers' 5th symphonies.

4.	Wit. Both composers exposed a sense of wit. Yes, even Shostakovich. 15th Symphony for example, and 9th of course.


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> Googling suggests this is a typo. Did you mean Alan Rawsthorne (1904 - 1971)? His works would fit the requirements I think (I only know his symphonies and concertos).


Yeah, I was going by my (obviously defective) memory on his name.

But yes, Rawsthorne is the composer I am referring to.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I have the Rawsthorne symphonies on the Lyrita label. Recommended! Also Malcolm Arnold's symphonies on Naxos or in the Conifer box set. But I don't know about Beethoven style?


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

When I think of Beethoven I think of dominant musical personality - stylistically revolutionary - major statements.

I don't think the 20th century produced a similar composer, but *Schoenberg* might come closest.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

christomacin said:


> Although I think I know what you mean, just out of curiosity, what would you deem the requirements of being a "Beethoven-like composer". Moderni-ish examples might be Nielsen or Tipppett, maybe?


Only just saw this thread and Tippett immediately sprang to mind.


----------



## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

starthrower said:


> I have the Rawsthorne symphonies on the Lyrita label. Recommended! Also Malcolm Arnold's symphonies on Naxos or in the Conifer box set. But I don't know about Beethoven style?


Arnold is a good call.

I was only thinking in terms of being: tonal, dramatic, and sort of larger than life. Not because these composers have any real stylistic similarity to Ludwig Van.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Folks, it doesn't get more similar than this (thnx for reminding me HenryP). Listen from 45' 36" .....


----------

