# "Public" Opinion of Classical Composers



## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Here's the deal:

*What's the public opinion/consensus of the public (unwashed masses ) to your least or most favorite composers??*

Example, if you are *not* that classical music fan but you hear classical music from time to time, what is your opinion to him? Or what your *un-enlightened* friends, family, neighbors think of various classical composers!?

It could be..

_"That Mozart guy wrote so much pretty music ehhh.... "

"Beethoven?? Dum.. dadaa,, dadada..."

"Vagner?? Is that the Nazi composer??"_


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

peeyaj said:


> Here's the deal:
> 
> *What's the public opinion/consensus of the public (unwashed masses ) to your least or most favorite composers??*
> 
> ...


I think the phrase is "the unwashed mass", the unwashed messes mostly attend concerts by Catherine Jenkins.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

moody said:


> I think the phrase is "the unwashed mass", the unwashed messes mostly attend concerts by Catherine Jenkins.


Are You sure Sir? Catherine Jenkins must surly be to posh for the "the unwashed mass"... 

/ptr


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Without fail, if I at all mention Classical music to a non-listener (which is generally only if they inquire what music I listen to) they reply with something about the Four Seasons being pretty great. Without fail.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

I wonder if on, say, rugby forums they spend a lot of time discussing what people who don't like rugby think of the All Blacks.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

It's only cinema music, innit? The stuff they play over the fillums, all the strings an' all. Where's the drummer, eh?

Mozart? Loved that fillum _Amadeus_! The Original Gangsta.

Beethoven? Here dawggie!!

Vagner? Wasn't he great on American Idol?

Schubert? Who, Bert?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Chopin is often reffered to as "that over-emotional piano guy"


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Without fail, if I at all mention Classical music to a non-listener (which is generally only if they inquire what music I listen to) they reply with something about the Four Seasons being pretty great. Without fail.


Not Canon in D?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Kieran said:


> Mozart? Loved that fillum _Amadeus_! The Original Gangsta.


:lol: all Madamina, il catalogo e questo needs is a repetitive beat and there's your _he got game_ moment.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> Not Canon in D?


O ye of little faith.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I often get, "I would love to get in to Classical more, BUT, You know, them songs are way to long, cant keep my concentration to long, can You suggest some short pieces?"

I usually suggest Webern! 

/ptr


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The common guy doesn't have an opinion as much as _he does not know art but he knows what he likes_, much like many ardent art fans who love to think they know much more than that.

End of thread, imho.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ptr said:


> Are You sure Sir? Catherine Jenkins must surly be to posh for the "the unwashed mass"...
> 
> /ptr


You are probably right,I meant to say Andre Rieu concerts.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> The common guy doesn't have an opinion as much as he _does not know art but he knows what he likes_, much like many more ardent art fans who love to think they know much more than that.
> 
> End of thread, imho.


You wanted to make sure of your point then ...you go on like this and you'll be joining the Krew.


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## IBMchicago (May 16, 2012)

Honestly, most of the people I know probably think that JS Bach and Beethoven were friends. They remember Mozart fondly (or glumly) for his infectious giggle and hip Californian accent. I do tend to hear Mozart music being played in their newly sterilized homes only for the first few months after they have had a newborn child. Award-winning movies certainly help propel awareness and opinions with the uninformed.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

they dislike it and are psychically disgusted by it.

classical music is used to repel people from gathering in public areas.


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

ahammel said:


> I wonder if on, say, rugby forums they spend a lot of time discussing what people who don't like rugby think of the All Blacks.


I'd tell you what I think of the the All Blacks, then again, I used to play rugby in Ireland.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

IBMchicago said:


> I do tend to hear Mozart music being played in their newly sterilized homes only for the first few months after they have had a newborn child.


There is some sort of (unproved) half theory half superstition about classical music being good for the unborn child when the pregnant mother listens to it, specifically to the music of Mozart.


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## Guest (May 17, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is some sort of (unproved) half theory half superstition about classical music being good for the unborn child when the pregnant mother listens to it, specifically to the music of Mozart.


Yes, my _significant other's_ paediatrician suggested the very same during labour. 
I have ... _acquaintances_ who think 'saturating' their newborns with Mozart _et al_ will 'hot house' them into ... what? ... being receptive to high culture at an early age? Jeez.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

moody said:


> You wanted to make sure of your point then ...you go on like this and you'll be joining the Krew.


Seriously? Just what a better / high - end classical forum needs for that guest viewer checking it out, right?

I'd love to be privy to a thread in a more restricted forum where that is dissing all the "Punter" non-professional experts on TC -- but no, I guess we all / you all think this is great fun, elevating your sorry [email protected]@ amateur listener selves at the expense of others. Brilliant.

There, how did that feel to you ;-)


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Most people I know still think of classical as some kind of pretentious boring uppity garbage at its worst, or a slightly more highbrow form of relaxing new age at best. Also people of my age group may think of classical as Schroeder from Peanuts pictures Beethoven, a brooding serious presence way too weighty for common folk. I think it makes some of them uncomfortable.

But we are turning this lighthearted thread into a philosophical discussion. 

"Classical? Yeah, that Charlotte Church gal is cute! I like The Seltic Women too."


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## Guest (May 17, 2013)

Weston said:


> Most people I know still think of classical as some kind of pretentious *boring uppity garbage* [...]


*B*oring *U*ppity *G*arbage = BUG. Love it!


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Most people I know do not listen to classical music. I feel that they view it in a similar manner to Shakespeare or Michelangelo - they know it's "considered" great, but they don't really enjoy it. Some may make fun of it, but I suspect most just feel it's "over their heads", and that doesn't bother them (not that it should).


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is some sort of (unproved) half theory half superstition about classical music being good for the unborn child when the pregnant mother listens to it, specifically to the music of Mozart.


Entirely disproved as pseudo science, by scientists detached from any interest in selling millions of books and CDs on the subject 

Ever wonder what Wolferl's stuff would sound like after it has traveled through several gallons of amniotic fluid before reaching your ears -- while you're floating in that same fluid?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A search for "Baby Einstein" on Amazon yields 3,963 results. Obviously statistically significant, notwithstanding those pointy-headed "detached scientists"!


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Around here the masses are so thoroughly unwashed that they do not know the name of a single classical composer. Not even Mozart or Beethoven rings a bell. I told one of the kids at the school where I work that I like classical music; he said "oh is that like, with violins and stuff?" And at a previous job, I was playing one of those music samples you get for free with Windows on the computer. It was an extract from Beethoven's ninth. A colleague was completely perplexed at this stuff. "So what is it that you listen for?" he wanted to know. "Like the drums, or what?" 

On the positive side, at that same job I had another colleague who had never heard of classical music before, but was completely captivated and enthralled when I played some Baroque lute music, so much so that he promptly went and bought himself a copy of the CD. 

Anyway, that's Dark Africa for you. If they have any knowledge of classical music at all, and you start talking about Mozart, they say "Oh, he's the one who was deaf, right? Was he deaf from birth?" 

Sigh.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> A search for "Baby Einstein" on Amazon yields 3,963 results. Obviously statistically significant, notwithstanding those pointy-headed "detached scientists"!


Yes, all those items marketed towards parents who have the hopes and ambitions for their kids.
There is a sucker born every minute, they say.

I imagine some of those books have very practical suggestions of what does animate and boost an infant's brain activity. Fine with that  Just like all else in a free-float marketplace with no real checks and balances preventing the selling of complete falsehoods printed up in bound formats, *caveat emptor.*


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

peeyaj said:


> Here's the deal:
> 
> *What's the public opinion/consensus of the public (unwashed masses ) to your least or most favorite composers??*
> 
> ...


If I mention that I listen to classical to a non classical listener, I often get the response that they think its good cos its relaxing. Many people tune in to classic FM at drive time or just when they want to unwind as background music at home. Most don't have specific things to say about specific composers, they just use words like "relaxing," or "artistic" stuff like that.

But I also know a fair amount of people who are nowhere near as deeply into classical as I am, or people on this forum are, but they might say go to a concert as a special treat once a year, it could be a standard concert or most likely things that orchestras do here such as play film scores while the film is being shown or things like opera gala nights for charity, or like symphonic rock (there's an annual festival of that kind of fusion with jazz, world, rock, classical with the orchestras involved).

I think that most people aren't against classical music, or aren't necessarily, they are kind of apathetic towards it. But a good deal of such people are not averse to taking it in their own way, but unlike members of this forum, they definitely don't collect classical recordings or go to 'straight' classical concerts on a regular basis. So what? They're not necessarily enemies, just different to us here. They got their own musical passions, and its not classical. What's the problem?

If you wanna see bitchiness, read some memoirs of the music world, including classical music. The attitudes there, between say one classical composer and another contemporary, are much worse than what supposed 'low brows' or 'great unwashed' dish out to eachother. It probably would even make some of the worst of them blush!


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> There is some sort of (unproved) half theory half superstition about classical music being good for the unborn child when the pregnant mother listens to it, specifically to the music of Mozart.


The kernel of truth behind this is that listening to classical music _as an adult_ has been found to _temporarily_ increase performance in certain kinds of mental tasks (specifically, spatio-temporal reasoning). Some kind of bizarre cultural Chinese-whispers chain lead a bunch of people to conclude that this means that playing classical music at infants will make them smarter as adults (which it won't).


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## Guest (May 18, 2013)

Burroughs said:


> Chopin is often reffered to as "that over-emotional piano guy"


That would be right, then!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Just like all else in a free-float marketplace with no real checks and balances preventing the selling of complete falsehoods printed up in bound formats, *caveat emptor.*


I have to believe there must be something to the "Baby Einstein" idea. I mean, just look at us here on this forum. Can we deny our obvious superiority to the common run?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Seriously? Just what a better / high - end classical forum needs for that guest viewer checking it out, right?
> 
> I'd love to be privy to a thread in a more restricted forum where that is dissing all the "Punter" non-professional experts on TC -- but no, I guess we all / you all think this is great fun, elevating your sorry [email protected]@ amateur listener selves at the expense of others. Brilliant.
> 
> There, how did that feel to you ;-)


I love it when you talk dirty !


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Around here the masses are so thoroughly unwashed that they do not know the name of a single classical composer. Not even Mozart or Beethoven rings a bell. I told one of the kids at the school where I work that I like classical music; he said "oh is that like, with violins and stuff?" And at a previous job, I was playing one of those music samples you get for free with Windows on the computer. It was an extract from Beethoven's ninth. A colleague was completely perplexed at this stuff. "So what is it that you listen for?" he wanted to know. "Like the drums, or what?"
> 
> On the positive side, at that same job I had another colleague who had never heard of classical music before, but was completely captivated and enthralled when I played some Baroque lute music, so much so that he promptly went and bought himself a copy of the CD.
> 
> ...


More unwashed messes,they're everywhere.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I've mostly found that if by chance you mention that you like classical music one is met with a vacant stare and the conversation stops or changes direction fast.
But this doesn't really explain the very large following for the dreaded Classic FM radio station in the UK.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

moody said:


> I've mostly found that if by chance you mention that you like classical music one is met with a vacant stare and the conversation stops or changes direction fast.


I am nowadays increasingly likely to say, when asked what music I like, that I cannot stand the sound of any music. And in a sense that is true, because if you define the stuff you hear on radio and in malls and so on as music, then indeed I don't like music. 



> But this doesn't really explain the very large following for the dreaded Classic FM radio station in the UK.


We have a Classic FM station here in South Africa as well. I haven't listened to it in years because I don't have a radio. If I did I probably wouldn't listen to it anyway, because it might be better called Sentimental Crossover Stuff FM. Not that I reject such music altogether, but they ended up playing virtually nothing else on Classic FM here; after an hour or two, one is in serious danger of diabetes.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

ahammel said:


> The kernel of truth behind this is that listening to classical music _as an adult_ has been found to _temporarily_ increase performance in certain kinds of mental tasks (specifically, spatio-temporal reasoning). Some kind of bizarre cultural Chinese-whispers chain lead a bunch of people to conclude that this means that playing classical music at infants will make them smarter as adults (which it won't).


Actually, Wikipedia tells me that the weight of current evdience suggests that the temporary spatio-temporal reasoning boost is related to doing anything whatever that one finds enjoyable. That includes listening to Mozart, depending on the person, but also reading a book or looking at paintings or playing video games or watching basketball, if that's what you like to do.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Brahms: Charlie Chaplin & Hungarian Razor Dance!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

The OP has changed "messes" to "masses", I think he was probably right the first time.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

moody said:


> The OP has changed "messes" to "masses", I think he was probably right the first time.


Only if he was attempting to predict the contents of this thread.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

KenOC said:


> I have to believe there must be something to the "Baby Einstein" idea. I mean, just look at us here on this forum. Can we deny our obvious superiority to the common run?


Well, clearly, the brain-washing part of the publicity campaign worked, at least.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

moody said:


> I've mostly found that if by chance you mention that you like classical music one is met with a vacant stare and the conversation stops or changes direction fast.
> But this doesn't really explain the very large following for the dreaded Classic FM radio station in the UK.


I'm always looking for way to end tedious conversations [which is the vast majority of them], perhaps it will be a good strategy just to announce that I like classical music?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Novelette said:


> I'm always looking for way to end tedious conversations [which is the vast majority of them], perhaps it will be a good strategy just to announce that I like classical music?


As early as my teens, I have learned through very hard experience that it is best to keep one's liking for classical music to oneself.

I cannot tell you how many times I had to sit and politely grin through records of such things as "Hooked on classics" and Strauss waltzes, that friends put on specially for my benefit...


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Seriously? Just what a better / high - end classical forum needs for that guest viewer checking it out, right?
> 
> I'd love to be privy to a thread in a more restricted forum where that is dissing all the "Punter" non-professional experts on TC -- but no, I guess we all / you all think this is great fun, elevating your sorry [email protected]@ amateur listener selves at the expense of others. Brilliant.
> 
> There, how did that feel to you ;-)


I think I've been got at and it's taken me since yesterday to catch on.
At least any guest viewer looking in would fail to be offended by a post in this style because he wouldn't understand it.
Such comments have not apparently caused a problem, according to Krummhorn new membership is very healthy. Also if they are serious have already experienced plenty of fun remarks at the hands of their acquaintances .


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Another thing is when I mention I like classical (or people ask what type of music I like and I say classical among the other things) they sometimes hum at me. Yeah they hum a tune they heard on radio, or in a movie, and they expect me to know it! Its happened a few times. It puts you on the spot a bit. I can't remember getting the tune they are thinking of.

Wadda these guys think? That I'm some database of classical music? :lol: If you're a rock, pop or techno fan, do people automatically expect you to know all the tunes from those?

But seriously it may be a sign of respect (they think you got a great musical memory) and also that they might not meet that many classical listeners. I can understand these possible reasons. But I'm guessing.

& sometimes they say they went to a classical concert years ago. If I ask them what they played, it draws a blank. Sometimes a bit of mild embarrasment. So I think maybe better not ask them. Its doing the reverse, putting them on the spot! (that memory thing)...


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

brianvds said:


> As early as my teens, I have learned through very hard experience that it is best to keep one's liking for classical music to oneself.
> 
> I cannot tell you how many times I had to sit and politely grin through records of such things as "Hooked on classics" and Strauss waltzes, that friends put on specially for my benefit...


UGH! Thankfully this hasn't happened to me before, but I cannot take the risk.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Novelette said:


> UGH! Thankfully this hasn't happened to me before, but I cannot take the risk.


You have it easy! Once I was assailed with an LP of easy-listening arrangements of traditional Japanese songs....it was horrifying....


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> You have it easy! Once I was assailed with an LP of easy-listening arrangements of traditional Japanese songs....it was horrifying....


I am at once amazed that this exists and ashamed that I didn't think of it first.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Mahlerian said:


> You have it easy! Once I was assailed with an LP of easy-listening arrangements of traditional Japanese songs....it was horrifying....


I was given a CD of pop music with strings playing the classics from Bach, _Air on a G String_, Mozart, _Rondo alla Turca_, etc. Beethoven's fifth.

I was told I'd like it...


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> You have it easy! Once I was assailed with an LP of easy-listening arrangements of traditional Japanese songs....it was horrifying....


Gah! I can't imagine. You have my sympathy, Mahlerian.



Kieran said:


> I was given a CD of pop music with strings playing the classics from Bach, _Air on a G String_, Mozart, _Rondo alla Turca_, etc. Beethoven's fifth.
> 
> I was told I'd like it...


Tell me it had Pachelbel's Canon, too?

A few months ago, I was out on a date. When I mentioned that I liked classical music, my date asked me who specifically I liked. I mentioned a few names, you know, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Prokofiev, Liszt... Whereupon my date seizes upon the handy cell phone [rather rudely, too, as this was in the middle of our conversation] and after a few moments announces: "Oh, I like Liszt too! My favorite song is 'Love Dream'!" 

What could I do but laugh? I appreciate making some effort there, but _please_! Yet another date that I ended before dinner even started. I appreciated the effort, but don't make such silly pretense. I have no qualms admitting to everyone that I have no idea what they're talking about when they mention this or that band with a bizarre name that sounds rather like a "Mad-Lib"; even whole genres of music are unknown to me and I see no shame in admitting that I never heard of it. =\


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

It had Pachelbel's canon too. 

Hey Novelette, a word to the wise. Next time you're dining with some lissome eye candy, don't mention that your Dr Jekyll also has a Mr Hyde! Let them find out your dark secret after it's too late... :devil:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

moody said:


> I've mostly found that if by chance you mention that you like classical music one is met with a vacant stare and the conversation stops or changes direction fast.
> But this doesn't really explain the very large following for the dreaded Classic FM radio station in the UK.


If you make something easy or popular - like a 'hip' film of a Shakespeare play, or (say) old masters incorporated into some fashionable wallpaper, you'll attract followers: people who can say, look, I'm fashionable and I'm more intelligent & cultured than most, because hey, I can appreciate classical music, or whatever!

I like Classic FM. It cuts it up into nice, bite-sized chunks! (There, I said it!)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Novelette said:


> I'm always looking for way to end tedious conversations [which is the vast majority of them], perhaps it will be a good strategy just to announce that I like classical music?


A dangerous strategy - *just your luck* (as Adrian Mole puts it) that your tedious conversationalist will fancy himself as a connoisseur of some esoteric composer and engage you in further tedium trying to prove his superiority.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> If you make something easy or popular - like a 'hip' film of a Shakespeare play, or (say) old masters incorporated into some fashionable wallpaper, you'll attract followers: people who can say, look, I'm fashionable and I'm more intelligent & cultured than most, because hey, I can appreciate classical music, or whatever!
> 
> I like Classic FM. It cuts it up into nice, bite-sized chunks! (There, I said it!)


It is completely the wrong way to present classical music!
During the day that is--it does get more serious at night.
But the dreadful ignorance of the presenters such as the unctuous Suchet and we've had the unbearable Tichmarsh on there.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> A dangerous strategy - *just your luck* (as Adrian Mole puts it) that your tedious conversationalist will fancy himself as a connoisseur of some esoteric composer and engage you in further tedium trying to prove his superiority.


We have those on here.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

moody said:


> It is completely the wrong way to present classical music!
> During the day that is--it does get more serious at night.
> But the dreadful ignorance of the presenters such as the unctuous Suchet and we've had the unbearable Tichmarsh on there.


OMG, not Titchmarsh! Enough yet - I'm out of there! 

But look ye here, master, Classic FM has raised the profile of classical music. Some of the new listeners will go on to more profound appreciation, but at the least it must have encouraged more concert-going, cd-buying, cd-production etc. 
You don't seriously want to be distinguished as one of a tiny, sneering, dwindling elite, do you?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Guy on the street : My favorite classical piece is the Taco Bell Cannon".


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Burroughs said:


> Chopin is often reffered to as "that over-emotional piano guy"


hmmm sounds about right X3 though I'd put that more towards Beethoven XD


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> A dangerous strategy - *just your luck* (as Adrian Mole puts it) that your tedious conversationalist will fancy himself as a connoisseur of some esoteric composer and engage you in further tedium trying to prove his superiority.


Oh Ingenue, that's always a complicating development. Fortunately, that tactic doesn't work on me.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

A lot of people put on classical music to study, as if it helps them somehow. Just look on Youtube and you'll find many hours-long compilations of well-known classical music with titles like "The Best Classical Music for Studying" or some such thing.I don't understand it. If anything, I find music, and especially _good_ music, too distracting when I really have to concentrate on something.

Good music should be _engaging_, not merely background filler.


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## manueelster (Feb 7, 2013)

Whenever I go to a concert, people say things like " I will love to join you the next time, It will be great to have a relaxing time".


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

manueelster said:


> Whenever I go to a concert, people say things like " I will love to join you the next time, It will be great to have a relaxing time".


I actually invited someone like this along! First off, they forgot their wallet so didn't pay for the ticket and stiffed me for dinner. Then they rustled in their seat, looked really uncomfortable, made me feel uncomfortable and I made the next in line feel edgy, and so on until the performers must have wondered if they were playing to a hostile crowd. Never again, says I...


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