# Merl's Beethoven Syphony Cycle Reviews Pt11



## Merl

Just when you thought I'd stopped them....they're back and this time it's a handful of newer recordings I'm reviewing. As always, these are my personal views. You may or may not agree but feel free to add anything pertinent to these performances in the comments, below. Again, I've tried to cover some of the newer sets here. Some are expensive to obtain from but whatever the case it's nice to know what they sound like so I've tried to give some indication of this in my short reviews. Anyway, enough of the blurb....here goes.

My ratings are:

C Satisfactory cycle. Ok, but nothing to shout about
B- Good cycle but flawed (see decriptions in thread).
B Good standard. A decent library set or better.
B+ Very good set. Some very impressive performances. Well worth investing in.
A- Excellent set just missing a little something to take it to the top of the pile but all performances very good or better.
A* Wow! Currently the cream of the crop out there in LvB Cycleland. Buy, borrow or listen, now!

*Adam Fischer / Danish Chamber Orchestra*









I have a lot of time for Adam Fischer. Those familiar with his Mahler, Mozart and Haydn recordings know that he likes to add colour to recordings with an odd accent here and there or colourful use of dynamics to emphasize passages. Even if some of his Mahler didn't quite hit the spot he did some interesting and lovely things with the music. Things are no different with this cycle but it works to greater effect more consistently. Tempi are generally brisk but Fischer is no mere speed-merchant (listen how he slows down from a Scherchen-like first movement of the 6th to a gentle, lilting Scene by the Brook and then ramps up the dynamics for the Storm) and he's not afraid to push and pull around a fair bit and hold things up (check out the last movement of the 5th where he does this to great effect in a very Furtwangler-esque fashion). After weeks of listening to this cycle I've grown to really like it (it was an instant hit tbh) and all it's tiny little details that distinguish it from 'just another HIP cycle'. All performances are at least very good and some are outstanding (the 1st, 4th, 7th and 8th are joyful). My advice is to go away and listen to Fischer's dynamic cycle. If you're as captivated by it as me (and a few others on this site) then get it. It's really impressive. Oh and a word about the sound.....superb. Seriously, it's crystal clear and packs a nice punch. There is nothing I don't like. The best (almost) HIP cycle out there? Possibly! Recommended enthusiastically.

_Grade: A*_

*Saraste / WDRSO*









I'd read a few mixed reviews about this cycle, yet none were negative, so I was eager to get my paws on it and give it a good listen. So what do you get? You get a well-played, well-intentioned, well-recorded set of Beethoven symphonies which sits at a middle ground, mixing old-style big-band Beethoven with a nod to the odd HIP performance. Years ago that would have been enough to catapult this set towards the top of the pile but in such a crowded field a new LvB cycle needs to say something new. Does this? Well, no. But I do like this cycle. It's very good in places and some performances are terrific (the 1st and 4th are great, honestly). Otherwise there's a very good 7th and 9th (with some lovely noisy timpani, which I love) and, quite frankly, not a total bummer in the set (although I have large reservations about the Eroica, which I found a little soggy and dragged in places). Speeds are fractionally quicker than moderate (and moderate in many slow movements) but forward momentum is good and Saraste keeps a good line through a well-conducted set. See what you think but if you want a decent, recent, digital set in good sound and with good performances you won't go much wrong....it's just that you can do better elesewhere!

_Grade: B+_

*Ashkenazy / NHK SO*









Those familiar with Ashkenazy's older Philharmonia recordings of symphonies 5-7 will know that Ashkenazy is a solid but unspectacular Beethoven (and Sibelius) interpreter. Over 20 years later things haven't changed much. Exton give Ashkenazy good sound and then spoil it by having hardly audible timpani in certain symphonies. Speeds are moderate and there are some nice touches in some of these recordings. The disc of Symphonies 4&5 is defintely the pick here and that's a very fine 5th from Ashkenazy. Otherwise there's a very old-fashioned, big band 9th, a 6th that's nowhere near as lyrical and warm as his Philharmonia one, a decent Eroica and ok treatments of all the rest. The NHK's playing is, as always these days, very good but (I can't help feel) lacks warmth. I'm demanding. I want more from my Beethoven nowadays. This doesn't provide it. It's just a basic LvB cycle. I wish I could be more positive than that.

_Grade: C_

*Dausgaard / Swedish Chamber Orchestra*









It's taken me some time to get hold of all of these recordings or this would have been reviewed 2 years back. Anyhow, I'm finally there. I've lived with some of Dausgaard's HIP cycle for some time and there are performances here I really rate highly. The 8th is possibly one of the finest out there (as good as Nelsons) and the 4th is an impressive reading. I also like how Dausgaard and his forces slow the 5th down in the finale, after setting off at a very brisk pace in the first movement, to give a very stately ending to the symphony. Elsewhere i have mixed feelings about the set. At times performances can sound undernourished and, unsurprisingly, Beethoven-lite. The 6th I find unconvincing, especially in comparison to Bohm's majestic Pastoral and I'm rarely a fan of many HIP 9ths - this is no exception, although the scherzo is really nicely good. The first two symphonies are fine and I like the Eroica a great deal. Otherwise the 7th doesn't wholly convince me in the way Skrowaczewski, Karajan, Honeck, Kleiber, Dudamel (DG) or Norrington 2 do, even though the finale is rivetting. In short this is a frustrating set as there are some really impressive moments and with a bit more consistency and a fuller string tone from bigger forces this could have been up there. Stylistically similar to Zinman. Soundwise, tempi-wise and performance-wise it's similar in feel to Jarvi's set but there are some better performances here (and a few worse). Nice sonics and recorded sound. These are all on individual discs with substantial fillers btw. Expensive too!

_Grade: B+_

*De Vriend / Netherlands SO*









I came to De Vriend's cycle with some trepidation, not knowing to expect from this conductor and orchestra. Along with Fischer's cycle this one has been occupying much of my Beethoven symphonic listening lately, and with good reason. It's marvellous! De Vriend and his Netherlands SO create a big, tight, well-structured soundscape that's coarse enough in places to please those who like their Beethoven dirty and big-band enough to compete with Karajan et al. In short this is a top tier cycle. EVERY performance is at least very good and the most are excellent. The disc of symphonies 7&8 is my favourite with a killer account of the 7th and a hugely enjoyable 8th. The 9th is proper big-boned Beethoven (no weedy strings here) as is his recording of the 5th, which is paired with one of the finest 1sts in the catalogue. Speeds seem on the brisk side but looking at timings this isnt the case, it's merely De Vriend's propulsive readings. As for the sound it's excellent, boasting vibrant, detailed dynamic stereo spread (I don't own SACD) with a great sense of sound stage. Brass lovers - buy with confidence! Make no bones about it, this is up there with Skrowaczewski for me as one the best LvB cycles on the market and will particularly please those who like their Beethoven with some 'umph' and vigour. Hugely recommended.

_Grade: A*_

Hope you've enjoyed reading these. If not. at least you're now aware of yet more (newer) cycles out there to explore.

Previous reviews:

Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt10
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt9
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt8
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt7
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt6
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt5
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt4
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt3
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Review Pt2
Merl's Beethoven Symphony Cycle Reviews Pt1


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## flamencosketches

Wow, two A* ratings in one thread. That must be a first for you. That Ádám Fischer looks great. I will have to give it a shot.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

There are 2 A* ratings in Pt. 5 too


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## Kjetil Heggelund

I had to hear the Skrowaczewski, at least my favorite no. 3, since I never heard of this man. I always like to hear it and have never really compared recordings. I'm a guy who likes the latest recordings, and this is wonderful. Old and wise conductor in modern sound


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## Merl

flamencosketches said:


> Wow, two A* ratings in one thread. That must be a first for you. That Ádám Fischer looks great. I will have to give it a shot.


I'm not usually as liberated with the plaudits but both sets are excellent in different ways. I love Fischer's quirky phrasing and dynamics but for sheer visceral enjoyment the De Vriend is compulsive. These two go right up there with Norrington 2 and Skrowaczewski as modern favourites. There's hardly any reviews (in fact I dont think there's any) of the Fischer set. I'd be interested what others who've heard it think of it. It might just be me.


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## D Smith

You piqued my interest Merl with your glowing review, so I listened to Fischer’s Eroica. I think your description of ‘quirky’ is a good one. I would also add fun. He and the band sounded like they were having a lot of fun with the music and it showed in their performance, even in the funeral march which I found a bit irreverent. But it certainly kept my interest and I’ll make time to listen to the rest. Nice to have these outlier performances, but next up will be some Jochum! Thanks as always for sharing your detailed reviews.


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## Merl

D Smith said:


> You piqued my interest Merl with your glowing review, so I listened to Fischer's Eroica. I think your description of 'quirky' is a good one. I would also add fun. He and the band sounded like they were having a lot of fun with the music and it showed in their performance, even in the funeral march which I found a bit irreverent. But it certainly kept my interest and I'll make time to listen to the rest. Nice to have these outlier performances, but next up will be some Jochum! Thanks as always for sharing your detailed reviews.


The Eroica is probably the only performance that didn't totally convince me but the rest of the set is so engaging I think I got swept up in it. You certainly hit the nail on the head with 'fun' though. Every performance bristles with energy so it sounds like they're having a great time playing this wonderful music and I love to hear that. Have a listen to the 4th if you can. I really enjoyed that account. I even enjoyed the 9th and I really thought I wouldn't.


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## Kiki

Congratulations, Merl, for another excellent round of reviews!

I definitely share your enthusiasm about Ádám Fischer's set. I've gone through 3 to 8 so far. Really like them. Beethoven's novelty has seldom been so vividly presented. As I've said elsewhere, No. 8 is a big (and pleasant) surprise for me. Really love it. 

One thing about those "quirky" moments, where he pulls either the tempo or the dynamics. Do they sound like delightful, improvised touches; or plain, idiosyncratic fussiness? Some might love them, while others might hate them. For me, think I'm being lenient as I've found these performances so impressive overall I wouldn't mind some idiomatic touches here and there! 

I'm very "unhappy" with the Saraste set.... I had got 4 & 5, then booooom, the complete set came out! :lol: ...... Seriously, I like his 4 & 5 a lot, and I echo what you said about his being well-conducted, big-band Beethoven with good forward momentum. I might still get the whole set while it's still available though.


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## realdealblues

I have been wanting to hear both Fischer and De Vriend. Glad to hear you enjoyed them both. Hopefully one day soon I'll be able to pick them up.


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## Enthusiast

Merl said:


> The Eroica is probably the only performance that didn't totally convince me but the rest of the set is so engaging I think I got swept up in it. You certainly hit the nail on the head with 'fun' though. Every performance bristles with energy so it sounds like they're having a great time playing this wonderful music and I love to hear that. Have a listen to the 4th if you can. I really enjoyed that account. I even enjoyed the 9th and I really thought I wouldn't.


Me too. Fischer's Eroica seems the weakest of the bunch. I'm listening to the 9th now (the only one I hadn't played yet - I've listened to all the others a couple of times) - and (also against my expectations) am loving it!

Great reviews (as usual), BTW. But, oh dear, now I'm going to have to get hold of de Vriend's set as well!


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## Merl

Kiki said:


> Congratulations, Merl, for another excellent round of reviews!
> 
> I definitely share your enthusiasm about Ádám Fischer's set. I've gone through 3 to 8 so far. Really like them. Beethoven's novelty has seldom been so vividly presented. As I've said elsewhere, No. 8 is a big (and pleasant) surprise for me. Really love it.
> 
> *One thing about those "quirky" moments, where he pulls either the tempo or the dynamics. Do they sound like delightful, improvised touches; or plain, idiosyncratic fussiness?* Some might love them, while others might hate them. For me, think I'm being lenient as I've found these performances so impressive overall I wouldn't mind some idiomatic touches here and there!
> 
> I'm very "unhappy" with the Saraste set.... I had got 4 & 5, then booooom, the complete set came out! :lol: ...... Seriously, I like his 4 & 5 a lot, and I echo what you said about his being well-conducted, big-band Beethoven with good forward momentum. I might still get the whole set while it's still available though.


I don't think they're fussiness. He puts them in to accentuate moments in each symphony and I rather like them. They make his accounts stand apart from others and feel natural, not forced. As for Saraste it's a good cycle but with so many other crackers around I cant thoroughly recommend it (but I won't diss it as some bits are really good). The De Vriend was a very pleasant surprise as I expected it to be quite scrawny and gentle but it's certainly not.


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## Kiki

Listening to Jan Willem de Vriend's No. 7 on Spotify now.... Just finished the long intro now moving on to the main subject... I must admit it's quite impressive.... will see how it goes... Thanks mate for the recommendation!


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## Enthusiast

You read quite often on the forum of how this or that member has become tired of the Beethoven symphonies. I don't think this could even happen to me but there are numerous very good performances (and very good sets) that I do find boring these days. I quite often stop listening to a Beethoven performance that I can hear is really very good (and would have done me fine 15 years ago) but is just not good enough to keep me listening now. Luckily there are still quite a number that are so good that the opposite happens - I can't stop listening to them. My list of such recordings is quite large but my list of rejects that are nevertheless very good is far longer! I seem never to tire of the ones that are exceptional. Anyway, part of my respect for this series of reviews by Merl is down to hos being able to listen attentively to the merely very good and the merely good and the frankly not at all good! You are a better man than me, Merl! Of course, the other thing is that it is really great to have many of the really wonderful and very alive sets signposted for us.


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## Merl

Enthusiast said:


> You read quite often on the forum of how this or that member has become tired of the Beethoven symphonies. I don't think this could even happen to me but there are numerous very good performances (and very good sets) that I do find boring these days. I quite often stop listening to a Beethoven performance that I can hear is really very good (and would have done me fine 15 years ago) but is just not good enough to keep me listening now. Luckily there are still quite a number that are so good that the opposite happens - I can't stop listening to them. My list of such recordings is quite large but my list of rejects that are nevertheless very good is far longer! I seem never to tire of the ones that are exceptional. Anyway, part of my respect for this series of reviews by Merl is down to hos being able to listen attentively to the merely very good and the merely good and the frankly not at all good! You are a better man than me, Merl! Of course, the other thing is that it is really great to have many of the really wonderful and very alive sets signposted for us.


Thanks, Enthusiast. Like I said, though, these are merely MY opinions and others will feel differently but if they encourage others to listen elsewhere and not to stick to the tried and trusted sets then I'm glad that these reviews are of service. I know what you mean. There are a few sets I can't listen to anymore but I still want to hear new sets to see if anyone can inject something new into these warhorses. In the case of Fisher and De Vriend, this time, I do feel a connection. Others may not. And yes, in the bad sets I do feel myself skipping through a bit but it's only cos they're so bloody boring (eh Polizzi, Marriner, etc). Also I do get Beethovened_out occasionally. At that point I have a break. I'm just as e thusiastic about Brahms and Schumann cycles {that I also have silly numbers of) but I just can't be bothered doing the reviews for them. Maybe I should some day.


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## bharbeke

Thanks for the very detailed and descriptive reviews of these cycles, Merl! I will check out your two A* and the Saraste cycles for sure.


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## Duncan

Sometimes neither a "Like" nor a personalized note of appreciation is enough to properly express one's gratitude and respect for the amount of selfless effort and dedication that went into the creation of these eleven separate threads and thus allow me to extend the highly coveted "Standing Ovation" for services provided to the forum that go above and beyond the call of duty - well done, my friend, well done!

- MacKenzie


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## Enthusiast

Merl said:


> Thanks, Enthusiast. Like I said, though, these are merely MY opinions and others will feel differently but if they encourage others to listen elsewhere and not to stick to the tried and trusted sets then I'm glad that these reviews are of service. I know what you mean.


Yes, absolutely. But they work well for me. I don't always agree with you on your positioning of various sets but I can always hear where you are coming from and you do have a knack in these reviews for finding the exceptional and I really like that you are open (indeed, you often celebrate) difference.



> I'm just as e thusiastic about Brahms and Schumann cycles {that I also have silly numbers of) but I just can't be bothered doing the reviews for them. Maybe I should some day.


I for one would love you to have a go - especially at the Brahms.


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## Merl

Enthusiast said:


> I for one would love you to have a go - especially at the Brahms.


Sounds like a plan. Lol. I'm expecting part one tomorrow, Enthusiast.


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## AlexD

Thank you for the recommendation of de Vriend's cycle. 

Unfortunately the box set on CD is difficult to find, but I managed to get some of the discs.

I'm listening to the 3rd - and it really is rather thrilling (but of course, you know that already).


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## starthrower

I decided to try a couple of the De Vriend discs. Ordered 1&5 and 7&8. Compared to the Fischer set the sound is fuller with more bottom end and some nice sounding brass. Will have to give a listen to his 9th to see if it sounds like something I want to own. I really wanted 3&4 but didn't want to fork out for two more CDs.


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## starthrower

I received my copy of De Vriend's 7&8 today. I really wanted to listen at full volume but I have to say the recording is on the bright side which is a bit of a disappointment. But the performances are superb! Taut, punchy, spirited and full on Szell like intensity throughout. I've got another CD of 1&5 on the way but I'm going stop there. If the top end wasn't so bright I'd buy the rest of the cycle.


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## Oldhoosierdude

The de Vriend cycle is now available from Qobuz for about $5 US. It's a download which includes all Beethoven concertos.

I have to go ahead and agree with your rave review. This is a great cycle, ranking with other greats. I enjoy that the first and second Symphonies are treated so well.


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## Malx

That de Vriend cycle has a mighty fine fifth along the others that have been mentioned.


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## KenOC

Just downloaded that big de Vriend Beethoven collection from Qubuz. All the symphonies and all the canonical concertos (including the Triple) plus the two violin romances, all for $4.99. Sounds great so far!

Amazon lists this collection for over $40, CD and MP3 alike. And that’s for a pre-order because they won’t have it until November 20!

Quite the bargain, I’d say.


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## GrosseFugue

Thanks so much for this, Merl! I've got Fischer and De Vriend on my list! In fact, it appears they've now released a box set of De Vriend doing both symphonies AND concertos. I wonder if you've had an opportunity to listen to the concertos as well? Btw, it seems the box set is NOT SACD, but that's fine by me as I don't have multi-channel playback: https://www.challengerecords.com/products/15983433092958

PS: Looking over your other symphony reviews it seems Fischer and De Vriend are the only ones you've given an A+ too. After sampling them online I can see why. Though curious to know if there are any others you are considering for the highest rating.


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## starthrower

Don't forget about Skrowaczewski on Ohems. It's a great cycle. Just ask Merl or Knorf. Not easy to find separate from the 90th Birthday box but I found it at Berkshire Record Outlet for under 25 bucks. They have a lot of low priced items there even if their website is very ancient looking. It's a small retailer with select inventory.


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## SONNET CLV

Since I've been surveying (though with no critical purpose in mind) a Beethoven symphony cycle per month to celebrate the Beethoven 250th year (2020) and now continuing to celebrate the Beethoven 250th birthday year (2021), I shall certainly consider the high rated cycles here as additions to my list, granted I get through my own current stash of Beethoven complete symphony box sets/collections. Still, the top rated sets prove inviting. Thanks.


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## GrosseFugue

Oh, Skrowaczewski. I have his Bruckner 9 with the Minnesota Orchestra. Great performance. Did not know he had a Beethoven cycle. It never even occurred to me he might be great with LvB. Two very different composers. 

Right now, I'm simply over the moon with the samples I've heard of de Vriend and Fischer. Can't wait to procure them. I love Merl's description of de Vriend being for people who like their Beethoven "dirty" but with a "big band" sound. Haha, yes, dirty just like a good martini! 

Previously, I was listening to David Hurwitz's youtube recommendations (and supplementing with gramophone and BBC Music reviews). But it seems great stuff can often go unnoticed. Maybe the politics of the Classical recording world. So how awesome to find someone who's tastes seem to align more with my own. (For example -- I too find Zinman's set disappointing as a whole)

If I'm going to plop down money and time for a Beethoven cycle I want something thrilling and unique, not bland, ho-hum traversals of the nine. Though I still admire the old school guys like Furtwangler and Klemperer. It's just that so much stuff between Furtwangler and Fischer seems not worth hearing, like decades of sets that are like clones of each other.


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## starthrower

De Vriend is good. His orchestra plays with a lot of Verve.


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## Haydn man

I can certainly go along with the recommendation for the Skrowaczeski cycle


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## GrosseFugue

starthrower said:


> Don't forget about Skrowaczewski on Ohems. It's a great cycle. Just ask Merl or Knorf. Not easy to find separate from the 90th Birthday box but I found it at Berkshire Record Outlet for under 25 bucks. They have a lot of low priced items there even if their website is very ancient looking. It's a small retailer with select inventory.


Berkshire Record! Thanks for that resource. I did find Skrowaczewski there for a very reasonable price: https://www.broinc.com/media/cd/cd-167661/

But, yes, their site is very antiquated. A shame. And I couldn't find Fischer or de Vriend's sets. Though doubtless they have many other hidden bargains.


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