# Roger Norrington retires



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

At the age of 87 Roger Norrington has given his last concert. I will miss him and regret that what we have had from him - so much of it stimulating and rewarding - is all that we are going to get.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/nov/19/roger-norrington-musical-revolutionary-bows-out-sage-gateshead-royal-northern-sinfonia


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I have my set of Beethoven symphonies featuring him and the London Classical Players; my Joshua Bell / London Philharmonic Orchestra recording of Nicholas Maw's Violin Concerto, conducted by him; my Helmut Eder's Konzert Für Klavier Und Orchester, Op.110, featuring Melvyn Tan (piano) and the Camerata Salzburg, also conducted by him;

and, among other discs, this:

















Which assures that, at least in _my_ listening room, Maestro Norrington won't be retiring any time soon.

What he does in that "other world" over which I have little to no control is his business, but I wish him well.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I cherish his much improved Beethoven 2nd SWR cycle most of all. Certainly a groundbreaking conductor but im not sure Mr. Hurwitz would agree with me. Lol. Ive not always loved all of his recordings but at leaat he's always had something interesting to say.


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## Aries (Nov 29, 2012)

I can't remember a single recording with Norrington as conductor that I like. But I often thought the pieces are bad and was surprised by their quality after I heard them conducted by other conductors.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Aries said:


> I can't remember a single recording with Norrington as conductor that I like. But *I often thought the pieces are bad and was surprised by their quality after I heard them conducted by other conductors.*


Ouch!! 
I didn't think conductors ever really retired....they just sort of fade away, [like generals]


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

There are many Norrington recordings I admire: the LCP Beethoven 3, 6, & 8, Schumann 3 & 4, Schubert Great C major, the SWR Schumann cycle in general, for starters. Always thought provoking and outstanding in commitment, I'd say.


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## Endeavour (Sep 9, 2021)

I've heard most of his recordings over the years. Of them I enjoyed his 2nd Beethoven Cycle with the SWR (with the exception of the 9th) and a smattering of his Mozart. The rest wasn't for me, but I will still say best wishes to him on his retirement and hope that he finds much enjoyment in his remaining days on this revolving little orb of ours.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Hope Hurwitz sends him a bunch of flowers after all the $h*t he's hurled at him.


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## Shea82821 (Nov 19, 2021)

Much as I find his conducting uninteresting, and at times even bland, I'd still say it's sad to see him go. Even the worst of conductors who makes it to 87 before retiring is impressive in my books, and ought to be given some ovation for such a lengthy career. 

Though, I'll add for safety: I don't go as far as Hurwitz. I'm typically fine with him, but his paltry dislike of Norrington is rather extreme. Sure, he's far from great, but hardly the worst.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Many were shocked by his earlier radical recordings - especially his first Beethoven symphony set - which is fair enough, I suppose, although I can't see why anyone would dislike his Mozart. And they tend then to trash his sublime later recordings without ever hearing them. The man was a great and if you haven't heard that yet then try again!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Have avoided him; I have a Beethoven IX on EMI, then a novelty approach, as a sample. Am really surprised that he is that old, however. I prefer say Gardiner or Harnoncourt regarding those relatively early ~HIP trends. But I'd probably take Norrington recordings ahead of Hogwood's.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ You are talking about his first Beethoven set, I think, and I agree that the Harnoncourt set was much better than it (but I dislike the Gardiner set). Norrington's 2nd set from Stuttgart, however, is a different thing entirely: one of the greatest Beethoven cycles. Take a listen.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ You are talking about his first Beethoven set, I think, and I agree that the Harnoncourt set was much better than it (but I dislike the Gardiner set). Norrington's 2nd set from Stuttgart, however, is a different thing entirely: one of the greatest Beethoven cycles. Take a listen.


Ok, thank you..........


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ You are talking about his first Beethoven set, I think, and I agree that the Harnoncourt set was much better than it (but I dislike the Gardiner set). Norrington's 2nd set from Stuttgart, however, is a different thing entirely: one of the greatest Beethoven cycles. Take a listen.


To be fair, I think one has to consider that in the 1980s there was a lot in flux in the HIP movement, especially for Beethoven. So, in way Harnoncourt (rec. ca. 1990 and Gardiner ca. 1995) and later ones could build upon foundations (and maybe problems/errors) of Goodman, Hogwood, Norrington, Brüggen (who took more time, I think). When it came out in the mid-late 1980s Norrington's was, I think, the most highly regarded and most consistent of these pioneering efforts. Regardless of what one thinks about results, he was also among the very first extending the historical approach to later romantics, such as Brahms and Wagner.


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

When RN conducted Mahler without vibrato,it became obvious that Norrington was a charlatan


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## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

FrankinUsa said:


> When RN conducted Mahler without vibrato,it became obvious that Norrington was a charlatan


You are absolutely right. And not only that. He even claimed that vibrato did not exist even at the beginning of the 20th century. A charlatan is a very appropriate epithet for him.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Did he retire from recording or just performing?


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## Shea82821 (Nov 19, 2021)

SanAntone said:


> Did he retire from recording or just performing?


Likely both but for the moment, we can just say it's for performing.


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## Shea82821 (Nov 19, 2021)

Simon23 said:


> You are absolutely right. And not only that. He even claimed that vibrato did not exist even at the beginning of the 20th century. A charlatan is a very appropriate epithet for him.


What? You dare question the infallible genius of Norrington? Shame, shame, shame!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

It would appear from some of the comments so far, that Mr Norrington retired not a day too soon! For my part I found him a kapellmeister at best.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

In thinking about Norrington's recorded legacy, one that still really stands out for me, worthy of company in any of the most treasured recordings, is his Schubert "Great" C major Symphony (which is now numbered as No. 8 in the _Neue Schubert-Ausgabe_). It is absolutely fantastic, and completely convinced me as to the merits of period instruments and historical scholarship in musical interpretation. I still greatly enjoy listening to it, at least as much as other favorites on modern instruments, such as Munch/Boston.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Knorf said:


> In thinking about Norrington's recorded legacy, one that still really stands out for me, worthy of company in any of the most treasured recordings, is his Schubert "Great" C major Symphony (which is now numbered as No. 8 in the _Neue Schubert-Ausgabe_). It is absolutely fantastic, and completely convinced me as to the merits of period instruments and historical scholarship in musical interpretation. I still greatly enjoy listening to it, at least as much as other favorites on modern instruments, such as Munch/Boston.


Do you mean the LCP performance or the Stuttgart remake?
I own the LCP release, and frankly I find it horrible. Party record tier. I do cherish his LCP Beethoven, those were my introduction to HIP Beethoven, and there's still a lot to enjoy in those. But that Schubert? Brrr.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

RobertJTh said:


> Do you mean the LCP performance or the Stuttgart remake?
> I own the LCP release, and frankly I find it horrible. Party record tier. I do cherish his LCP Beethoven, those were my introduction to HIP Beethoven, and there's still a lot to enjoy in those. But that Schubert? Brrr.


Yes, the London Classical Players. I think it's fantastic, certainly among my favorites.

N.B. the Stuttgart recording is modern instruments.

ETA: as I posted earlier, there are several of the LCP Beethoven I also like, especially 2, 3, 6 & 8.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I don't listen to much *Berlioz* as a rule, but Norrington's _Symphonie Fantastique_ (LCP) is one I do enjoy. I generally prefer HIP performance of the Romantic symphonic literature over the "old-fashioned" big orchestral sound.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I think Norrington's LCP/Beethoven is refreshing. OK, was, back in those days. Since then there have been many HIP-PI cycles that have taken top spots in my favourite list. I certainly do not hate it as much as some others. 

There are also his Symphonie fantastique and Rossini overtures which I've found enjoyable.

Oh, I do like his Bruckner! (I'm not kidding!)

But why did he record only the 1851 Schumann #4, but no 1841? Perplexed.


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Kiki said:


> But why did he record only the 1851 Schumann #4, but no 1841? Perplexed.


Norrington's superb Schumann cycle with the Stuttgart Radio Symphony on Hänssler includes the 1841 version of Schumann 4.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

Knorf said:


> Norrington's superb Schumann cycle with the Stuttgart Radio Symphony on Hänssler includes the 1841 version of Schumann 4.


I have the LCP Schumann #4 which is 1851.

I don't have the Stuttgart, but I've seen it listed on chandos.net specifically as the 1951 version and with German tempo markings. That's why I thought it was also the 1851 version.

Since you said it's 1841, I have done more searches. It's confusing, some sites listed German tempo markings (1951), some others Italian (1841). I did find a jpg of the CD back cover that listed Italian tempo markings (1841)... but these listings are not always reliable, e.g. Roy Goodman's Schumann #4 CD booklet listed German tempo markings (1851) but it is in fact the 1841 version!

OK, so Norrington recorded the 1851 with LCP, then latter on the 1841 with Stuttgart, right?


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Kiki said:


> OK, so Norrington recorded the 1851 with LCP, then latter on the 1841 with Stuttgart, right?


Correct! Italian tempo markings and all.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Hurwitz would soil his underwear to hear me say it, but I actually find Norrington's recording of the 9th with the LSO to be among the most refreshing, almost Magic Flute-like in its ebullience, of any other recording. I still prefer it to any other performance. Hope he enjoys his well-earned retirement. Also love his recording of Don Giovanni and my favorite.


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## Andy Foster (Jul 4, 2018)

Alas I've never warmed to Norrington's performances. His Symphonie Fantastique has lots of incidental beauties - love the ophicleides - but it just doesn't work. Beecham is unhistorical but totally convincing. Norrington is perfectly correct but leaves me unmoved.


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## Shea82821 (Nov 19, 2021)

Andy Foster said:


> Alas I've never warmed to Norrington's performances. His Symphonie Fantastique has lots of incidental beauties - love the ophicleides - but it just doesn't work. Beecham is unhistorical but totally convincing. Norrington is perfectly correct but leaves me unmoved.


Indeed. An ideal performer balances these two extremes. Though I still don't imply Norrington is bad - much to Hurwitz's chagrin.


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