# Average age of classical music listeners?



## Isivor (Sep 27, 2013)

Hello all 

I've been wondering about this for some time now: What is the average age of classical music listeners? And how does it vary throughout the world? 

Personally, I remember listening to classical music from an early age - to my memory I was 4-6 years old - but when I e.g. attend classical concertos (here in Denmark) the audience often is from maybe 50 years and up. 

So, might people here have some factual data on this subject? Maybe there's been some research made in this field ... ?

Greetings & thanks for any insights you may have 

Jesper


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## Guest (May 28, 2015)

Isivor said:


> Hello all
> 
> I've been wondering about this for some time now: *What is the average age of classical music listeners?* And how does it vary throughout the world?


Hello Isivor,
I can answer the first question but not the second. Where I teach, the average age of classical music listeners is 19 or 20.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Isivor said:


> Hello all
> 
> I've been wondering about this for some time now: What is the average age of classical music listeners? And how does it vary throughout the world?
> 
> ...


 Beats me. That kind of demographic information should be relatively easy to obtain on line, since professional marketers use it all the time.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Going by the people I see attending the SF Symphony, I'd have to guess the average age is about 50. lol

There were a couple times where I was most certainly the youngest person in the entire section I was sitting in -_-


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm not sure this is easy to find. Professional researchers don't always put their research online. If it's private research, they won't.

How do you define listener? Classical radio audiences no doubt skew old because radio listeners skew old. Same with CD sales.

Concerts may skew old, depending on where and what's being played. A university concert probably has a much younger audience than an symphony orchestra.

You could just allow people to self-define and compare to other types of music (or trend it). But who's doing that research, and do they want to give it away for free?

ADD: that being said, this research look pretty decent and puts the median age ~50. Third pie chart. Though it looks like they only spoke to 25-64 year olds, so not a true median.

http://www.prpd.org/PDFs/2014 Conference/Classical Listeners and the Infinite Dial.pdf


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Extrapolating from concert attendance will inevitably skew the average upwards, if only because in many cases the price of tickets will rule out younger people. It was not always so - in the late 60s, I paid 3s 6d. to sit in the organ gallery of the Usher Hall - roughly £5 in today's terms. The cheapest seats at RLPO concerts are £13, going up to £14 next year.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

There all kinds of "classical music listeners." People who go to orchestral concerts, or chamber music concerts, or certified black beret-wearing hard cases who only attend avant-garde concerts. People who stream music, pirate it, or are addicted to LPs or CDs. People who buy the occasional Mozart CD in hopes their children will be smarter, or who rush out to buy Gorecki's 3rd because they read about it in People Magazine.

Good luck with the average age!


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I see plenty of people <35 up in the cheap seats at Lincoln Center and Carnegie Hall when I go. It's the orchestra tier that's a sea of gray hair.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

From the handful of concerts I've been to I would say 60+ 
Damn, if I ever want to feel young again I know where to go... (nah, I'm going for the music).


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## Guest (May 28, 2015)

KenOC said:


> There all kinds of "classical music listeners". People who go to orchestral concerts, or chamber music concerts, *or certified black beret-wearing hard cases who only attend avant-garde concerts*.


Hah! Excellent! You are thinking of Paris in the late 1950s, _Gitanes_, expresso coffee, _L'Être et le Néant_? You're living in a time warp, Ken _mon cher_; these days the _avant garde_ hardcore wear Chanel and Dior. Come on, get with the times, man !!


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## Guest (May 28, 2015)

There is a dirty little secret I hesitate to mention around here: a lot of classical music is written for movie soundtracks.

Factoring that into the equation will bring the average age down quite significantly.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

No clue but I'm in my late 30's.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Not that this is necessarily the best representation of the classical-listening community, but this TC poll suggests that the mean age is around 40, with a median of somewhere between 31 and 40. Most (26.8%) chose 21-30.

http://www.talkclassical.com/33941-age.html


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Icarus said:


> There is a dirty little secret I hesitate to mention around here: a lot of classical music is written for movie soundtracks.
> 
> Factoring that into the equation will bring the average age down quite significantly.


You're right of course, but that's not real music. I know because I read it here.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> No clue but I'm in my late 30's.


*** You're old. ***


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

59 here, but I can tell you I've liked classical music as long as I've liked music. I've been a serious music consumer since I was about 11. It's not something you up and decide to like because of changing hormone levels, or that you suddenly like because you outgrow other forms. I still listen to hard rock, progressive rock, some metal (though old school) at excruciating volumes when possible, and I love a lot of electronica or IDM.

I do realize however I am a statistical sample size of one, and that we classical fans may be quite atypical.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm 29. I'd say the average age would be around 40-50, since there are also many younger listeners of classical. I think classical's been growing a bit in recent years, so the average is probably slowly going down.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

My average age is about a third of my actual age! (There have been several age-poll during the years I've been a member @ TC, if You poll these I believe that you'll get a decent statistical average as I would bet that TC mirrors an average of the real world)

/ptr


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

*Ah, the ignorance*

I started listening at 14 - standard fare. Starting realizing it was the my greatest passion at 15. And now we are here at close to 17. I seriously doubt the number of Indians who like Western Classical Music. In European countries, though, it might be normal for the kids to start liking at 10 or 11. But, the polls disagree - hopefully, not because they targeted the geezers.



Tristan said:


> Going by the people I see attending the SF Symphony, I'd have to guess the average age is about 50. lol
> 
> There were a couple times where I was most certainly the youngest person in the entire section I was sitting in -_-


Section? I was the youngest - by a wide margin - in the _ENTIRE _concert. People started from late 30s and most were predominantly fifty-plus wealthy *foreigners*. Hardly any Indians.


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## Guest (May 29, 2015)

I dunno about average ages. I was always _an_ age. I have been listening to classical music since I was 9, and each year I change age. I expect I will change ages each year until I die. I mean, be fair, it's worked pretty well for me so far. Plus, there's not a thing I can do about it. Once 63 is over, I will be 64, no matter what.

As for the people I see in concerts I attend, they range from infants to nonagenarians. Far as I know. (When I met Elliott Carter, even he was not yet one hundred.) And from all sorts of countries, including India.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

I started seriously listening to classical music at age 18. I'm now 44. So the average is 31.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

DeepR said:


> From the handful of concerts I've been to I would say 60+
> Damn, if I ever want to feel young again I know where to go... (nah, I'm going for the music).


Oh sure, sure... go ahead and lie, it makes us feel better before we forget what you've said altogether. I'm going to go swallow a fistful of pills like I have to twice a day, and then cry myself to sleep because I make people feel young, hahahaha. Maybe I would get rid of my comb if I could just part with it...

Btw, late 40s here. I won't be any more specific than that, but I will show a gray tuft at the crest of the head and some deep, baggy eyes if proof is required. And suffice it to say that if I unbuttoned my shirt by one more button, a thick, gray monster's claw would stab out and menace the world. Sometimes I startle myself with it until I realize it's just my tangle of chest rope.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Hehe. One time I went to one of those informative talks before a concert. I was looking for the right place, stepped inside and thought I entered a retirement home. I was the only 30ish person among a sea of grey. It felt a little uneasy for a moment ("am I doing the right things for people my age?") but who cares, it was an interesting talk!


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

isorhythm said:


> I see plenty of people <35 up in the cheap seats at Lincoln Center and Carnegie Hall when I go. It's the orchestra tier that's a sea of gray hair.


In London it's only the females who have grey HAIR


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm 21, and I've started to listen classical music when I was 19.


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## Clayton (Nov 10, 2013)

I wish I was 21, I wish I started to listen to classical music when I was 19


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## dzc4627 (Apr 23, 2015)

a sweet sixteen here to pull it down a bit.


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## Le Peel (May 15, 2015)

This listener is 21.


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Nereffid said:


> I started seriously listening to classical music at age 18. I'm now 44. So the average is 31.


My average age as a classical music listener is also 31! I guess the issue is pretty much settled, then.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm 17 and I started listening to classical music when I was -17. My average age is 0.


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## Isivor (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi ... wow - surprisingly many answers I'd say - with quite different perspectives and angles 

... I'll take the liberty of keeping to the more "factual aspects" as it has been a frequent surprise of mine over the years that, possibly besides (classical?) musicians as such, I've observed that so few people apparently are inclined to listen to classical music ... ?? ... A part of life that to me is so rewarding and speaks with a beauty both in sound and inner voice that I rarely find with similar qualities in other types of music ...

Yet, living in Denmark, the majority of classical concert goers (but likely also the persons listening to classical) I would say are like 55 + (nothing wrong in that  - I'm just younger myself) and I would really like to experience what it's like to be part of classical music with people on my own age (admittedly now I'm 47 - I'm also aging but have had this wish for years) ...

So, I was essentially wondering if elsewhere in the world it would be different? I.e. if the classical tradition had more of an audience e.g. in Germany, France, The Netherlands - or somewhere else?

@GreenMamba: Thanks for replying & posting the link ... I'm thinking though if the entry criteria: "one hour of classical music listening/month" is what really characterizes a classical music listener ... ?

According to this link:

http://www.spin.com/2014/06/average-american-listening-habits-four-hours-audio-day/

american (USA?) music listening overall is about 4 hours per day ... So 1 hour of classical music listening/month (I realize this is the minimum) as an inclusion criteria might also grasp a volume of people who may listen very rarely to classical music ...

Anyway a bit of search on the internet brought up this article:

http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/4e5...toujours_plus_âgé_pour_le_classique_en_France

Although it's in French it may nevertheless have some interesting information: It states that in France the average classical concert goer's age has gone up from 39 years (1981) to 61 years (2014). IMHO quite a rise ... Yet in "manyene"'s post:

http://www.talkclassical.com/38331-average-age-classical-music.html#post887159

I note the comment that due to higher ticket prices more elderly people could be today's concert goers ...

Anyway, if some of you know of countries, major cities, somewhere else ?? where there's a major "younger" classical music listener group/audience I'd appreciate a tip 

Cheers & thanks again for your comments ...

Jesper


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Looking at the local concert goers around my way I would say the average is probably 60+
I am interested to see how young some of you are here on TC
I am 88 and would like to have discussed this further but I am taking my Grandmother out for a meal


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

I think the result may be different depending upon which generation or year we are looking at. When I was a young boy, the majority of youngsters then (in my region) were into classical music, both as listeners and players. As I aged, more and more different music styles began to make their way onto the horizon, thus, spreading out the listening audience into additional sub groups and interests.

My wife and I are volunteer ushers at a couple of different performance halls in our city - the classical concerts attract a fair amount of 'gray hairs', outnumbering the under 30 crowd maybe by two-thirds, and that might be attributed to the cost of entry/seats, although most venues here have significant discounts for students.

However, when a younger artist like Yo-Yo Ma appear on stage, the majority of attendees are young people ... so perhaps the popularity factor has some bearing on the results.

When Itzhan Perlman was performing here last year the attending audience age was an equal mix from very young to the older generation ... another "popularity factor" perhaps.

Both of those performances were played to a sold out house (2600 seat hall), and everyone who attended were _on time_ and no late-comers.


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

I don't think there's something inherently alien about classical music to the young psyche - it's just that there's so many factors that stand in the way of appreciating it. 

1) Pop music - it's not the previous century anymore. We have Pop, Rock, Hip Hop, Blues, Jazz, Folk, EDM, Metal, Ambient and any combination of these genres to appeal to pretty much anyone's tastes. Even for "pure" lovers of music, Classical faces tough competition. 

2) It's hard to get into. Most people like simple, easy music that is emotionally relevant and simplistic, with steady rhythms and ample hooks - largely not even possessing any developed listening skills or attention spans to process classical/ jazz beyond the popular standards. It requires not only venturing out of your comfort zone, but spending copious amounts of time and energy to familiarize oneself with the complex language. 

3) Lack of time - most people have work/ hobbies/ social activities and a myriad other duties to attend to even without spending two hours a day on a Mahler symphony. 

4) Socially speaking, it may even be considered counter-productive to get into classical music, especially in your teens. Other people don't listen to it and consider it snotty and nerdy. There's always the danger you'll grow to dislike empty populist party music - that won't make you any more popular with the crowds. 

And so on and so forth. Realistically, it doesn't take too long to realize why most people won't want to invest that kind of time into it, even after jumping over all the other hurdles.

And to cap it off - our generation didn't really have a Lenny Bernstein or any other reason to get into it. Only way is if you like film music, or are of the especially musical variety - a gift not equally distributed among all members of society.


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## Lusvig (May 30, 2015)

Haydn man said:


> Looking at the local concert goers around my way I would say the average is probably 60+
> I am interested to see how young some of you are here on TC
> I am 88 and would like to have discussed this further but I am taking my Grandmother out for a meal


You're 88 and you're taking your grandmother out for a meal? How old is your grandmother?


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Lucifer Saudade said:


> Most people like simple, easy music that is emotionally relevant and simplistic, with steady rhythms and ample hooks... It requires not only venturing out of your comfort zone, but spending copious amounts of time and energy to familiarize oneself with the complex language.


I can attest to this, actually... The only reason I started listening to classical music in 7th grade was because I wanted something "deeper" and more intense/thoughtful than today's radio songs; but I never would've known to listen classical unless I had been exposed to it at a really young age through my parents, who come from a country where classical music is still really emphasized and valued (even though it's starting to lose that and become more Westernized in terms of music).

Hopefully minoring in music will put me in the way of other people my age who listen classical. Then I will actually be able to talk about it out loud and not just online.

Until then....


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

mstar said:


> I can attest to this, actually... The only reason I started listening to classical music in 7th grade was because I wanted something "deeper" and more intense/thoughtful than today's radio songs; but I never would've known to listen classical unless I had been exposed to it at a really young age through my parents, who come from a country where classical music is still really emphasized and valued (even though it's starting to lose that and become more Westernized in terms of music).
> 
> Hopefully minoring in music will put me in the way of other people my age who listen classical. Then I will actually be able to talk about it out loud and not just online.
> 
> Until then....


A Slavic country I suppose?

I went the Metal route, instead of Classical. I was too impatient and energetic to sit through one whole huge ginormous symphony (though I still managed a few Beethoven ones, they're that good ). Then after HS, I planned to stop listening to music for any prolonged period of time. Too many things to do.

Well, a rather vicious illness had ridden me of my plans soon enough. On the plus side, I discovered Classical music. It makes me wonder though - who would actually spend a large chuck of their 20's years going through the Classical oeuvre, instead of partying and establishing a career?

Musicians, that's who. Most young people here (at least the knowledgeable senior members) are probably instrumentalists/ composers. Then there's the old timers.

Can you really blame young people for having better things to do then to REALLY acquaint themselves with this huge subject? Classical music can then be a consoling pleasure for the older folk. Pretty tolerable trade-off eh? Classical music for youth. Better then nothin'


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Tristan said:


> Going by the people I see attending the SF Symphony, I'd have to guess the average age is about 50. lol
> 
> There were a couple times where I was most certainly the youngest person in the entire section I was sitting in -_-


Where I live it depends on the program. When I go to a Romantic era music concert then most of the audience is 60+, but I went to a Ligeti concert last month and was surprised to see the huge ammount of young people, say under 30.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

Lucifer Saudade said:


> I was too impatient and energetic to sit through one whole huge ginormous symphony
> 
> Who would actually spend a large chuck of their 20's years going through the Classical oeuvre, instead of partying and establishing a career?
> Musicians, that's who.
> ...


I only listened to the Tschaikovsky symphonies for the first few months, but even then stuck more with piano concertos. Then again I did quite a bit of traveling so I had the time to sit and mull over musical works.

I'm going into biotechnology/biochem, actually. Hopefully I can minor in music, but gotta see how that goes...

As for better things to do, I tend to enjoy my organic chemistry textbook immeasurably more than raging teen hormones of any sort. So I guess I can be put in the category of older folk who need consolation.


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

mstar said:


> As for better things to do, I tend to enjoy my organic chemistry textbook immeasurably more than raging teen hormones of any sort. So I guess I can be put in the category of older folk who need consolation.


If you're fine with it. It takes all kinds to make a world right?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Der Leiermann said:


> Where I live it depends on the program. When I go to a Romantic era music concert then most of the audience is 60+, but I went to a Ligeti concert last month and was surprised to see the huge ammount of young people, say under 30.


Actually I've seen this as well. At the Australian premiere of Elliott Carter's _What Next?_ in 2012 most of the audience looked like they were in their 20s and early 30s with only really a handful of grey hairs congregated in the more expensive seats. Same deal with the annual new music festival that the local symphony orchestra puts on. I really have no idea why, but younger repertoire seems to attract younger audiences.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Isivor said:


> Hi ... wow - surprisingly many answers I'd say - with quite different perspectives and angles
> 
> ... I'll take the liberty of keeping to the more "factual aspects" as it has been a frequent surprise of mine over the years that, possibly besides (classical?) musicians as such, I've observed that so few people apparently are inclined to listen to classical music ... ?? ... A part of life that to me is so rewarding and speaks with a beauty both in sound and inner voice that I rarely find with similar qualities in other types of music ...
> 
> ...


Just four hours? Wow, I realize that is plenty but during my own downtime there is always music. Can't even remember now what it's like, not either listening to music or having something stuck in my head.

But I digress... It wouldn't surprise me if many places in Europe where people go to churches known for their music, have a higher population of CM lovers. Of course an obvious example would be Leipzig, not just Sebastian Bach but a lot of musical history there and Lutheran churchgoers.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Lucifer Saudade said:


> A Slavic country I suppose?
> 
> I went the Metal route, instead of Classical. I was too impatient and energetic to sit through one whole huge ginormous symphony (though I still managed a few Beethoven ones, they're that good ). Then after HS, I planned to stop listening to music for any prolonged period of time. Too many things to do.
> 
> ...


Who would spend so much time reading books for that matter? Or pursuing any interest past the typical, superficial level? How many people are practically encyclopedic about Star Wars? Or football/other-sports? I don't see any difference between these and classical music as far as time investment goes, and perfectly "normal", incessantly impatient young people often find the time to pursue their interests. So this appears to have more to do with how people choose interests.

I can get just as much done as any of these "anklebiters"  and still find the time to put on my robe, sit by the wood stove, and listen to music as I read. Totally an old guy thing to do, I know, but I'll kick some young tail when it's time to get after it and split wood, haul gravel, etc.


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## HungarianDancer (Jan 5, 2015)

there is a stereotype, that states that the majority of classical music listeners are 40 up, however having been a classical music listener for the past 20 years, plus attending the odd orchestral performance, opera and ballet, the average age is usually around 35 up, but there are smatterings of classical music fans within the age range of 15-30 etc, im only in my mid 20’s,


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

There was quite a few "white heads" in the audience at Heinz Hall this afternoon for the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra's Beethoven Fest "The Immortal" concert featuring the Violin Concerto and Symphony No. 9. There were also quite a few younger folks and some children. Average age I couldn't say. But there are quite a few seemingly young musicians in the PSO, and the violinist Christian Tetzlaff (born April 24, 1966) is not yet 50. Conductor Manfred Honeck (born 17 September 1958) is younger than I, and there were folks older than I sitting around me at the concert.

But I do know that when I hold my grandson and listen to Beethoven on my home stereo rig, the average age of the listeners is about 36 ... which is relatively young, eh?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't know who goes to the symphony because we no longer have one. And I don't know who buys classical recordings because the record stores are all gone. Exciting town I live in!


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

If my local orchestra's attendance is to be believed, ~50 years of age.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

I went to one of our symphony's outdoor concerts (Ravinia) last summer and it was pretty senior. Lots of gray hair, canes, walkers, and seemingly retirees on lawn chairs. A smattering of younger folks on blankets, but definitely a minority.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

For listeners, I think it's all over the place. The really younger generations are probably less inclined, but I think people living through the 80s and earlier have some classical branch in their libraries.

For concert attendance, I agree with others: 40s and up. Only younger ones are kids brought by their parents, or college students for class credit. 

Funny enough, the other day I went to a piano recital downtown, and one of the Bulls players was sitting a few seats away from me!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

All by myself, I skew the curve upward....way way up!!!


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

All classical music lovers start at the age of 90 and get younger with every hearing and the passing of the years until everything goes full-circle and they return to their starting place: the womb, and happy to be there_. "Today, here and now, I feel younger and younger, stronger and stronger!"_


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

The _median_ age of the last concert I attended was probably, oh, 67 years old.


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

I also have the impression that most of the people who attend classical music concerts are pensioners. But maybe because they are pensioners they are bored sitting at home all the time so they go to all cultural events to kill time... and especially to the free concerts because the pensions are small (there is ado about the free concerts now in the Netherlands: see my thread about it: Free concerts).


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Well I'm not a pensioner, but I go to the free lunchtime concerts at the Tivoli Vredenburg, when there's something good on and I can skive off work.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Average age in the US is probably 60 - 70. It's ALWAYS been that in my experience. At summer festivals I go to the average probably drops a good 10-20 years. Old people with walkers do not want to traipse around Grand Tetons, Vail, etc. In Europe, the average age seems lower than here. In Berlin it's definitely lower - maybe even 40s. By far the oldest group I've even seen was at the Friday morning concerts in Philadelphia - all the retirement homes seem to bring the inmates.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The average age of people posting on this forum is about 40, or it was a while back.

What's your age? I ask for a reason...


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Mid-60s here. And male - I'd bet 95% of the people on this board are men. Classical magazines, what few still exist, have a similar profile: white, male, older.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Ya'll live with old people. Round here it's anything goes. Yes, probably 50% are over 50. The rest is anything and everything. Our chief conductor is around 30 maybe that helps.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Most young people are usually too inexperienced and too busy trying to impress each other to appreciate quality very often. It's not their fault, it's the nature of youth, and most of us have to be young once. Fortunately, some of us get to be old too, and some of us get to enjoy pleasures that would've evaded us when we were young. 

Not me of course; I was born forty years old and fifty-five years wise. But I mean in general.


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

I figure the average age is pretty old, but I'm 30, and first really got into classical music when I was 16.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

science said:


> Most young people are usually too inexperienced and too busy trying to impress each other to appreciate quality very often. It's not their fault, it's the nature of youth, and most of us have to be young once. Fortunately, some of us get to be old too, and some of us get to enjoy pleasures that would've evaded us when we were young.
> 
> Not me of course; I was born forty years old and fifty-five years wise. But I mean in general.


Most old people don't like classical music either.

For what it's worth, I'm 40 years old, I do like classical music, but I'm probably not as much of a devotee as most of the people on this forum. I also think that many older people don't give young people enough credit. They're really just as full and rich and intelligent as any other age cohort, even if they don't have as much life experience yet.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Discussions and arguments about music (including classical) are often to be found on social media sites that cater mostly to young people. I don't think many of them think of themselves as classical music fans but they are getting recommendations from each other on music they might enjoy.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Just look around at the audience on the YT , all over 30, most 50-70, some in their 80;s, Demographics like your local churches. 
Now who will fill those seats in the future?
It is just a matter of time.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ I wonder how many TC members - presumably fairly strong classical fans - were that into classical music when they were 25? For many people, an interest in classical music grew when they were in their late 30s or even older.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I wonder how many TC members - presumably fairly strong classical fans - were that into classical music when they were 25? For many people, an interest in classical music grew when they were in their late 30s or even older.


I wasn't into it at all, but I did like bits and pieces and if circumstances had been favourable I might have developed a taste for classical music even then.

I agree that 'middle age and older' seems to be the prime time for deciding to listen 'seriously', but I also think that there are probably more young people today ready to give it a go, because of the media & technology making it more accessible.

And there are also the young people who *will* give it a go when they move into the upper age bracket.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

paulbest said:


> Just look around at the audience on the YT , all over 30, most 50-70, some in their 80;s, Demographics like your local churches.
> Now *who will fill those seats in the future*?
> It is just a matter of time.


The present young generation when they reach that age.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

paulbest said:


> Now who will fill those seats in the future?
> .


There presumably will be no young in the Orchestras either. Therefore the music will die and be totally forgotten. Rapping hipity hop will be the only remaining music.

Now how did classical survive all these hundreds of years anyway?


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Concert halls are like music museums, where instead of galleries of past masters we have performances of Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms. New works are begrudgingly put up with when they are programmed as the price to pay for getting to hear the old favorites.

The latest "rapping hippety hop" is at least more vital and current.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

According to Youtube comment statistics, which I'm sure we can all agree are reliable, the average age of classical listeners is '-6 months.'


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> There presumably will be no young in the Orchestras either. Therefore the music will die and be totally forgotten. Rapping hipity hop will be the only remaining music.
> 
> Now how did classical survive all these hundreds of years anyway?


It survived precisely because the first part of what you wrote isn't true. There are loads of youth orchestras and young people learning instruments. Of the last four concerts I attended two were by youth orchestras of a calibre equal to the regular SO.


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

eugeneonagain said:


> Well I'm not a pensioner, but I go to the free lunchtime concerts at the Tivoli Vredenburg, when there's something good on and I can skive off work.


BTW, what is your opinion on the Trouw-articles about free concerts as exploitation of musicians (I am sorry to bring it up again but I am a little frustrated that I can not get clear what exactly according to the protesters is the problem and what isn't; I find there is a lot of indignation but no clear argument )?


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Ingélou said:


> The present young generation when they reach that age.


Point was, will the next gen want Brahms on the program?


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Am I very special when I've liked classical music all my life? If so, alright! My parents aren't musicians, but my father had Mozart on LP. Wait, I'm getting old...


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> There presumably will be no young in the Orchestras either. Therefore the music will die and be totally forgotten. Rapping hipity hop will be the only remaining music.
> 
> Now how did classical survive all these hundreds of years anyway?


 many of the 60-80 yr olds who support *The Program* want Brahms on the concert schedule,,,but will the 20 somethings who grow out of pop music, , for ,which composer will they attend a concert. 
Brahms or Carter?

Most programs schedule's are weird, they have Ravel with Strauss, or worse Dvorak.
Anyone should know Ravel and Brahms is like oil and water.

Or Henze with ,,,say Copland....who wants to pay full price for half show?
Put Brahms and Dvorak on one schedule, next week place Ravel and Szymanowski. This way each group gets his money's worth.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Am I very special when I've liked classical music all my life? If so, alright! My parents aren't musicians, but my father had Mozart on LP. Wait, I'm getting old...


My dad had Mozart on 78 rpms; I must be older than you.


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I wonder how many TC members - presumably fairly strong classical fans - were that into classical music when they were 25? For many people, an interest in classical music grew when they were in their late 30s or even older.


I agree. Children are open to everything (e.g. art, science) but adolescents are mainly sexually oriented (at least I was ) so they choose pop and rock which is sexually driven music. Some regain their natural childlike curiosity later in life and find a deep beauty in classical or art music (but most people stay adolescent by chasing money, status and thus sex all their lives).


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

It depends on location. When I attend Boston Symphony concerts and Celebrity Series events, the crowd tends to be younger, probably because a) there are several music schools in the area and b) older folks live in the suburbs, and it's tough to get into the city. The range is pretty wide, but I'd say that the average age is 50.

OTOH, the audience at my community orchestra concerts is certainly older, probably for opposite reasons - no nearby music schools, and ease of access.

It also depends on where you sit in the hall. I think that the people who sit in the balconies tend to be younger because a) they don't mind climbing the stairs and b) the seats are often cheaper. I'm 61 and always sit in the 2nd balcony at Boston's Symphony Hall (that's where the sound is best), and I usually find that I'm among the older people up there.


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Agamemnon said:


> BTW, what is your opinion on the Trouw-articles about free concerts as exploitation of musicians (I am sorry to bring it up again but I am a little frustrated that I can not get clear what exactly according to the protesters is the problem and what isn't; I find there is a lot of indignation but no clear argument )?


I admit I haven't seen that, mainly because I no longer read the papers apart from the FD 2-3 times a week. I shall look into it and try and form an opinion. I know someone who plays flute at the concert hall so I should try and solicit her opinion on it.


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## Agamemnon (May 1, 2017)

eugeneonagain said:


> I admit I haven't seen that, mainly because I no longer read the papers apart from the FD 2-3 times a week. I shall look into it and try and form an opinion. I know someone who plays flute at the concert hall so I should try and solicit her opinion on it.


That would be great. You can find the articles also here: Free concerts.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

eugeneonagain said:


> It survived precisely because the first part of what you wrote isn't true. There are loads of youth orchestras and young people learning instruments. Of the last four concerts I attended two were by youth orchestras of a calibre equal to the regular SO.


Those weren't kids. They were old people with lots of makeup.


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## Guest (May 14, 2019)

"Classical music listeners" are such an amorphous group that I doubt that it's possible to work out a meaningful average age. Included within it are people at one extreme who merely like a few of the most commonly played extracts, to "anoraks" at the other end some of whom have obsessive, highly personalised viewpoints on the subject. In between there are all manner of diiferent types, each with their own distinguishing characteristics in terms of how much classical music relative to other types of music they listen to, and indeed how much music in total they listen to.

As a matter of fact, I don't think that classical music music is the only genre where such difficulties are likely to occur. Imagine asking what is the "Average age of Blues listeners". Instead of "Blues" may be substituted, Jazz, Country, Opera, Operetta, Musicals, Rock, Metal .....whatever. Regardless of genre, much the same difficulty is likely to occur in estimating a meaningful average age of listeners, as the spread of ages (the "variance") could be just as high.

The only exception I can think of is that the latest "pop" scene music, whatever it happens to be, is likely to have a predominantly young age audience. But once the current youngsters who enjoy that style have aged into their 20's the chances are that the pop scene will have moved on into new territory that may not appeal so much as the material they grew up with. It's possibly at that stage that some people of that generation may be more prepared to cast their nets further afield in trying out different music genres altogether, like classical for example.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> There presumably will be no young in the Orchestras either. Therefore the music will die and be totally forgotten. Rapping hipity hop will be the only remaining music.
> 
> Now how did classical survive all these hundreds of years anyway?


And yet it seems that the quality of orchestras today is greater by far than it was. Certainly, in Britain we have more top class orchestras than we used to have and many of them have good numbers of relatively young players. There is no doom in this story. I feel that compared to the 1960s, when I was growing up, classical music is thriving today.


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