# Round 2 of 3: 'Vieni! t'affretta! Souliotis, Scotto



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)




----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

When Verdi said that he didn't want a beautiful voice for Lady Macbeth, It's unlikely that he meant that he wanted a worn-out soprano who sang badly. But if he did mean that, he should join us for round 2 of this competition and thrill to the shrieks and wobbles here offered us by two singers who in earlier years sang well with voices that were not intrinsically horrible.

I must say that the hideous sounds these ladies make here have surpassed my lowest expectations. Hearing Souliotis, I thought: "This is obviously the loser." Then I started listening to Scotto and was no longer sure of anything, including my name and my location in time and space.

Scotto has just finished finishing this scene off, and I'm finished writing my review. I'm waving my white hanky - in surrender, not in imitation of Pavarotti - and leaving voting to those whose sense of duty is stronger than their gag reflex.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

It's a long time since I heard the Souliotis version, but my memories of it were correct. She was practically voiceless by the time she recorded this set. (It was in fact the last opera she recorded for Decca, except for the mezzo role of la Zia Principessa in Freni's *Suor Angelica *many years later). She also recorded this for her first recital record only four years earlier and it's instructive to compare the two. Unfortunately I can't find the recital version on youtube, but on that she sounds much like she does on the studio *Nabucco* and it's very exciting.

Scotto is also caught too late. She might have made a good stab at it when she recorded her Verdi recital for Columbia in 1975, but this is painful.

I really can't decide which of these is worst, so I'm abstaining. Maybe we should have a competition for worst offender, Here's another contender.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I was never very fond of Suliotis’s vibratoless sound or the hollow chest voice she displays here. She handles the _coloratura_ fairly well, but the voice is glassy, screamy on top, the tone somehow slipping off certain notes (is that possible?) and the chest voice, cavernous without core. I literally wanted to run away.
I cannot tolerate much of Scotto, though I listened because I like the opera. Unfortunately, her ambition far outpaced her talent and her vocal condition at the time of this recording is unlistenable. Nor do I think she offers enough compensation dramatically or otherwise to bear listening.
I concur with Woodduck - no vote!


----------



## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> She also recorded this for her first recital record only four years earlier and it's instructive to compare the two. Unfortunately I can't find the recital version on youtube


You mean this one?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Otis B. Driftwood said:


> You mean this one?


Thank you. Yes that's the one. Quite a bit better, I think.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Otis B. Driftwood said:


> You mean this one?


This is better, but I think I can hear the seeds of her decline. She's clearly singing, not on her interest, but on her capital, and then some. I'm visualizing a blowtorch or a sandblaster.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> This is better, but I think I can hear the seeds of her decline. She's clearly singing, not on her interest, but on her capital, and then some. I'm visualizing a blowtorch or a sandblaster.


As much as I enjoy her Abigaille in the Gardelli recording, you can hear the seeds of her decline there too. It's very exciting, even thrilling, but it's no surprise she didn't last long.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sorry guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to include Souliotis and Scotto because I believed both were well known in the role ( actually not many sopranos were as it is a hard role) but these were what Shaughnessy and I came up with. Every other month they were playing Scotto in this on Met Opera radio and I loved Souliotis in Nabucco, but I didn't know the dates. I don't think I have featured Souliotis before and many people love her fanatically. Forgive me for messing up. I should have done more homework I guess. I promise better singers for my next round. Honest. Plus M.C. is coming and a couple of you are guaranteed to love her LOL. I won't even include this round in the final round.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sorry guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to include Souliotis and Scotto because I believed both were well known in the role ( actually not many sopranos were as it is a hard role)* but these were what Shaughnessy and I came up* with. Every other month they were playing Scotto in this on Met Opera radio and I loved Souliotis in Nabucco, but I didn't know the dates. I don't think I have featured Souliotis before and many people love her fanatically. Forgive me for messing up. I should have done more homework I guess. I promise better singers for my next round. Honest. Plus M.C. is coming and a couple of you are guaranteed to love her LOL. I won't even include this round in the final round.












While it may appear that SOF is being thrown under the bus on this one - I do need to state that my involvement consisted entirely of trying to find the best quality recordings that I could and that I was not consulted about the selections chosen which is entirely appropriate as I have always been upfront about lacking the requisite expertise to do so.

He never does anything less than try to do his very best at all times in each of his competitions - He agonizes over every single one of his decisions and has turned second-guessing himself into something approaching a true art form as I can attest through our daily conversations.

I'll take my share of the failure on any shortcomings in these competitions but all of the success is entirely his alone - He's the creator - the evil genius - the mad scientist - the crazy wild-eyed gardener - I'm nothing more than a glorified disc jockey.- just another pretty face coasting by on good looks, wise-cracks, and a rather charming Irish accent.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sorry guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to include Souliotis and Scotto because I believed both were well known in the role ( actually not many sopranos were as it is a hard role) but these were what Shaughnessy and I came up with. Every other month they were playing Scotto in this on Met Opera radio and I loved Souliotis in Nabucco, but I didn't know the dates. I don't think I have featured Souliotis before and many people love her fanatically. Forgive me for messing up. I should have done more homework I guess. I promise better singers for my next round. Honest. Plus M.C. is coming and a couple of you are guaranteed to love her LOL. I won't even include this round in the final round.


No need to apologise for anything. We all love these competitions even if we don't always love the competitors, and if we don't like the competitors, it gives us a chance to mouth off about them, which can also be fun! 

"Don't sweat it!" Is that what you Americans say?


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> When Verdi said that he didn't want a beautiful voice for Lady Macbeth, It's unlikely that he meant that he wanted a worn-out soprano who sang badly. But if he did mean that, he should join us for round 2 of this competition and thrill to the shrieks and wobbles here offered us by two singers who in earlier years sang well with voices that were not intrinsically horrible.
> 
> I must say that the hideous sounds these ladies make here have surpassed my lowest expectations. Hearing Souliotis, I thought: "This is obviously the loser." Then I started listening to Scotto and was no longer sure of anything, including my name and my location in time and space.
> 
> Scotto has just finished finishing this scene off, and I'm finished writing my review. I'm waving my white hanky - in surrender, not in imitation of Pavarotti - and leaving voting to those whose sense of duty is stronger than their gag reflex.


Osborn is his book surveying the operas of Verdi discusses how Barbieri-Nini could sing well and she had an excellent technique. Note also the aria Trionfai in the 1847 requires a formidable technique. You can't shriek or wobble your way through it.


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's a long time since I heard the Souliotis version, but my memories of it were correct. She was practically voiceless by the time she recorded this set. (It was in fact the last opera she recorded for Decca, except for the mezzo role of la Zia Principessa in Freni's *Suor Angelica *many years later). She also recorded this for her first recital record only four years earlier and it's instructive to compare the two. Unfortunately I can't find the recital version on youtube, but on that she sounds much like she does on the studio *Nabucco* and it's very exciting.
> 
> Scotto is also caught too late. She might have made a good stab at it when she recorded her Verdi recital for Columbia in 1975, but this is painful.
> 
> I really can't decide which of these is worst, so I'm abstaining. Maybe we should have a competition for worst offender, Here's another contender.


The youtube video of Najda Michel ... words fail me. I listened to her attempt at the role in a Met broadcast. To this day I remember trying to figure out what pitch she was on in the Sleepwalking Scene.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I really can't decide which of these is worst, so I'm abstaining. Maybe we should have a competition for worst offender, Here's another contender.


I believe the applicable expression is OMFG. Is this for real? Isn't Fabio Biondi a Baroque specialist?


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

There was a great russian actress Faina Ranevskaya, who was famous not only for her talent but also for her vivid intelligence and wits. She preferred theater work to the cinema. "Money is eaten, disgrace remains", she said. 
Nadia's recording emerged in another thread. And I'm ready to repeat: why did they release it at all?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I believe the applicable expression is OMFG. Is this for real? Isn't Fabio Biondi a Baroque specialist?


Yes he is. I believe this is a recording of Verdi's original version without the later revisions, using original instruments. It actually got some good reviews with some critics trying to justify the awful sounds coming from Michael by quoting Verdi's own requirements for the role. Somehow I don't think this is what he meant.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes he is. I believe this is a recording of Verdi's original version without the later revisions, using original instruments. It actually got some good reviews with some critics trying to justify the awful sounds coming from Michael by quoting Verdi's own requirements for the role. Somehow I don't think this is what he meant.


Opera critics! What a magnificent breed of ignorami!


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I rarely read theater press, but sometimes I wonder if they are deaf, if there were anything but staging (singing for example) or if they attended a show at all.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Nevertheless I feel that I must say something in defence of Nadja Michael. She is a very poshy woman and an amazing actress, the latter is a reason why she is so sought-after. I was captivatied by her Elektra, but it was live. In recording, unseen she stays helpless. So scrupulous repetoire choice is everything.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I believe the applicable expression is OMFG. Is this for real? Isn't Fabio Biondi a Baroque specialist?


I didn’t think anyone could be worse than Scotto, but this woman is! A wobble on every note?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I didn’t think anyone could be worse than Scotto, but this woman is! A wobble on every note?


Too bad Florence Foster Jenkins didn't record this.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

MAS said:


> I didn’t think anyone could be worse than Scotto, but this woman is! A wobble on every note?


Did anyone attend La Traviata in Wiener Staatsoper in December 2014?


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

MAS said:


> I didn’t think anyone could be worse than Scotto, but this woman is! A wobble on every note?


Her Trionfai is on youtube as that whole recording of the 1847 version is. All I can say is, cover your ears.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ColdGenius said:


> Nevertheless I feel that I must say something in defence of Nadja Michael. She is a very poshy woman and an amazing actress, the latter is a reason why she is so sought-after. I was captivatied by her Elektra, but it was live. In recording, unseen she stays helpless. So scrupulous repetoire choice is everything.


Nadja Michael's mother's great-aunt was the soprano Erna Sack - the German nightingale...


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

It is said that Nadja Michael‘s brutality as Aïda did Maestro Sinopoli in one fateful night in Berlin.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Easy one. I am going by Verdi's wishes to pick an ugly lady and her voice should not be beautiful. Well of course I cannot compare homeliness but I can compare voices that are not outright beautiful and yet powerful enough to deliver an ugly sound and that voice belongs to Souliotis IMO. 
Although I do admit that Scotto emitted some pretty screechy highs.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ALT said:


> It is said that Nadja Michael‘s brutality as Aïda did Maestro Sinopoli in one fateful night in Berlin.


She sang Amneris then. Her soprano carrier began later.


----------



## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Nadja Michael's mother's great-aunt was the soprano Erna Sack - the German nightingale...


Wow!


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Nevertheless I feel that I must say something in defence of Nadja Michael. She is a very poshy woman and an amazing actress, the latter is a reason why she is so sought-after. I was captivatied by her Elektra, but it was live. In recording, unseen she stays helpless. So scrupulous repetoire choice is everything.


Judi Dench is a great actress. I doubt she ever attempted Verdi’s Lady Macbeth.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

We distracted from the topic and even Anna Yurievna wasn't mentioned.
Even my incompetent ears noticed that both performances were problem. Souliotis sang as she sang because of her bad luck (whatever would cause it in its turn). Scotto sang as she could. She might be effective sometimes, but not here. And I'm spoiled by Lady Macbeth in my theater.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ColdGenius said:


> We distracted from the topic and even Anna Yurievna wasn't mentioned.


_Even _Anna Yurievna? You mean Nebs?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> We distracted from the topic and even Anna Yurievna wasn't mentioned.
> Even my incompetent ears noticed that both performances were problem. Souliotis sang as she sang because of her bad luck (whatever would cause it in its turn). Scotto sang as she could. She might be effective sometimes, but not here. And I'm spoiled by Lady Macbeth in my theater.


Who’s Anna Yurievna?


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

MAS said:


> _Even _Anna Yurievna? You mean Nebs?


Who’s Anna Yurievna?

[/QUOTE]
Netrebko


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Thanks for this contest. Souliotis is by far my favourite Lady Macbeth in a complete studio recording, despite the lack of love shown her here. I get that the voice is frayed at the edges, but I can tolerate that for the effect it brings to this particular role. What works for the Lady wouldn't (and indeed doesn't) for Norma and Anna Bolena around the same time.

Scotto sang the role with Bruson at Covent Garden (and La Scala) and so I was really interested to hear her in the aria. In general I like it, even though it isn't what one would associate with her. It is better than it looks on paper much like her studio Nabucco. Some of her technical imperfections remind me of Theodossiou.

I shall be voting for Souliotis.

N.


----------

