# How much do you make in a year (USD equivalent)?



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Just your personal earnings, don't include spouse or anyone else.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

All I'm willing to say is that it's nice to be retired and not have to worry about money.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Come on guys, it's an anonymous poll. No need to be insecure about it.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't know. My credit card company asks me this question every month and I NEVER tell them. So wow, two already at over half a million.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

:lol:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Seriously? This is not a subject for a internet music forum.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

To answer that without including my spouse’s income would get me in trouble (with her) given that I live in a community property state.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Suffice to say that Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Elon Musk regularly call me for financial advice.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Just your personal earnings, don't include spouse or anyone else.


How did you come up with the break points? Usually we would find a round number at one end of each bracket. Did these numbers come from a government pay scale? Then the two at over half a million must be congressmen? And if there are congressmen on the site we we are in trouble since political discussion is banned.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

SixFootScowl said:


> How did you come up with the break points? Usually we would find a round number at one end of each bracket. Did these numbers come from a government pay scale? Then the two at over half a million must be congressmen? And if there are congressmen on the site we we are in trouble since political discussion is banned.


It came from the Federal single income tax bracket for 2020.

Link to Congressional Research Service Report. Breakdown on Page 3.

Here is the photo of the table:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Bulldog said:


> All I'm willing to say is that it's nice to be retired and not have to worry about money.


I'm in the same circumstances, though it's a very mixed blessing. Let's just say, it's not what I had expected.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Deleted post - wrong thread...

Note to self: 

Hey, genius, try looking up occasionally to see which thread you're actually posting on...sigh...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Conrad2 said:


> It came from the Federal single income tax bracket for 2020.
> 
> Link to Congressional Research Service Report. Breakdown on Page 3.
> 
> Here is the photo of the table:


Whelp, I figured government had something to do with it.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

SixFootScowl said:


> *Whelp*, I figured government had something to do with it.


What does Whelp mean? Never heard of that term before. I look it up on the Oxford dictionary, and I assume it has a different meaning in this context.

Dictionary definition:
1) A boy or young man (often as a disparaging form of address).
2) Puppy or cub


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

It is meaningless noise.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

starthrower said:


> Seriously? This is not a subject for a internet music forum.


Why not? Do people really get that uptight about the issue?


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Conrad2 said:


> What does Whelp mean? Never heard of that term before. I look it up on the Oxford dictionary, and I assume it has a different meaning in this context.
> 
> Dictionary definition:
> 1) A boy or young man (often as a disparaging form of address).
> 2) Puppy or cub


Here's the explanation - SixFootScowl - despite the name, is one of the good guys -

"Whelp is an interjection. A remark, generally thought of as southern slang, that is derived from the word "Well" and also used in its stead in order to lead one into another sentence that may continue a paused conversation/story or be used to signify the conclusion of one. Where as pronunciation of "Well" can be drawn out, "Whelp" is strictly pronounced very quickly and with a slight rising-inflection."

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whelp


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Sunburst Finish said:


> Here's the explanation - SixFootScowl - despite the name, is one of the good guys -
> 
> "Whelp is an interjection. A remark, generally thought of as southern slang, that is derived from the word "Well" and also used in its stead in order to lead one into another sentence that may continue a paused conversation/story or be used to signify the conclusion of one. Where as pronunciation of "Well" can be drawn out, "Whelp" is strictly pronounced very quickly and with a slight rising-inflection."


I.e. meaningless noise.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> *It is meaningless noise.*


You're in the wrong thread...

This is not the place to discuss the alleged shortcomings of contemporary classical music...


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Sunburst Finish said:


> Here's the explanation - SixFootScowl - despite the name, is one of the good guys -
> 
> "Whelp is an interjection. A remark, generally thought of as southern slang, that is derived from the word "Well" and also used in its stead in order to lead one into another sentence that may continue a paused conversation/story or be used to signify the conclusion of one. Where as pronunciation of "Well" can be drawn out, "Whelp" is strictly pronounced very quickly and with a slight rising-inflection."
> 
> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whelp


Thanks. After I "sound it out", it become apparent that I, a native Texan, had a brain fart.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Why not? Do people really get that uptight about the issue?


Who goes online to compare salaries with strangers? It just seems like a weird topic for a music forum and in general but TC is a weird place. Anyways, I was surprised to see it was Brahms who initiated this. I suspected it was another goofy ArtMusic poll. Bye, for now.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

starthrower said:


> Who goes online to compare salaries with strangers? It just seems like a weird topic for a music forum and in general but TC is a weird place. Anyways, I was surprised to see it was Brahms who initiated this. I suspected it was another goofy ArtMusic poll. Bye, for now.


Yep. Just another bizarre TC poll. It might be a millennial thing.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

starthrower said:


> Who goes online to compare salaries with strangers? It just seems like a weird topic for a music forum and in general but TC is a weird place. Anyways, I was surprised to see it was Brahms who initiated this. I suspected it was another goofy ArtMusic poll. Bye, for now.


Half this forum is ridden with implications of status; comparing salaries is a little less discreet, but other than that not so different from much of TC. But I think you misunderstand the purpose of the poll and thread. I'm not doing this so that people can brag about how rich they are. In fact, I'd prefer people not share that. I kept the poll anonymous for a reason. I'm doing this because (1) I'm curious about the demographics of TC (I've conducted polls on age too, for instance, and I'll probably make one about race / ethnicity too), and (2) as someone who at the crossroads of beginning my professional career, I'm interested in the opinions of those older than myself (especially those for whom music plays a large part in life) about the importance of considering finances throughout one's career.

I do, unironically, appreciate the backhanded compliment though; thank you.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, I'm not much help because I'm retired. And you're right about the status flaunting thing. Just check the Hi Fi thread where members are discussing their 1,500 dollar headphones. But good luck to you, Brahms.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Half this forum is ridden with implications of status; comparing salaries is a little less discreet, but other than that not so different from much of TC. But I think you misunderstand the purpose of the poll and thread. I'm not doing this so that people can brag about how rich they are. In fact, I'd prefer people not share that. I kept the poll anonymous for a reason. I'm doing this because (1) I'm curious about the demographics of TC (I've conducted polls on age too, for instance, and I'll probably make one about race / ethnicity too), and (2) as someone who at the crossroads of beginning my professional career, I'm interested in the opinions of those older than myself (especially those for whom music plays a large part in life) about the importance of considering finances throughout one's career.
> 
> I do, unironically, appreciate the backhanded compliment though; thank you.


Well the sentiment expressed by the 2nd point kind of resonates with me as when I was starting my career, I have to grapple with uncertainty, where I tried to rectified it with the wisdom and experience of those who precede me.

I think the main issue with this thread, that it limits the scope of the discussion and the boundaries you have set through the thread's premise of disclosing one income bracket, although anonymous, has made potential posters feel a bit uncomfortable. For me, personally, I try to keep my finance off the internet, as I don't feel secure. In other setting, knowing the general salary of industry is important as it give you leverage in negotiating your pay and for other things. However, here, I have to agree with the other posters that asking this question may be inappropriate given the general purpose of the forum you asking for help and the sincere answers you may get may not be that helpful to you. For instance if I state my income, it may have no relevance to your carrer as my industry may be different from yours, the cost of living in my area may be different, the skills I have may differ froms yours, the supply and demand of my job market may be different, and etc.

There also many factors beside finance that one may take under consideration when reflecting on what job they want to pursue. For instance, on the topic of income, prior to my current job, my previous job paid me well more than my current job. However, despite this, I choose to resign as it had a negative impact on my mental health. By just limiting the discussion scope about finance, you are also limiting your knowledge to other significant elements that work together in your career. With that stated, I'm not denying the importance of considering finance for selecting a job as you need to support yourself and if applicable, those close to you. If someone offered me a job with a salary that is below my market worth, that would leave me with a dirty taste in my mouth. Also, I also hear some concerns coming from the "millennial" generation as one of my nephew is seeking my advice for how to navigate the job market, especially now in the pandemic affected economy. With my parameters said, I still believe that this thread is not the best way to ask for advice.

I suspect that you post your question on TC, as you have a reasonable degree of regard for some of the members on this site through your long history of interacting with them, that it motivates you to seek their counsel. However, in my personal opinion, I will ask, have you ask those around you first? For instance, any past or present mentors, bosses, professors, or school alumnis. I think their experience, wisdom, and judgement might be more relevant for you. When I started out in my career, those are the people I reached out to as I know them personally, know where they are in life, and the parameters around their advice. Of course, you don't have to do this, as each person have their own path, but I just sharing what I have done.

I think that asking the members of TCs for advices regarding your professional career could work if you revisit your premise that you illustrate to the rest of us. Personally, when I read your 1st post:


BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Just your personal earnings, don't include spouse or anyone else.


Nowhere did it indicate your true purpose of creating this thread for asking advice regarding your professorial career path and the importance of finance in a career, so I just assumed it was one of those demographic threads such as "What are the ages of members on TC".

I think if you reworded your thread as "What's the importance of finance in your career" or "What advice can you give to someone just entering the job market", more people will be willing to participate and offer their input. Of course, no need to copy it word for word, just modified to your own purpose, or don't use it at all. An important thing to keep in mind is that we are not obligated to give you the information you are seeking, in this case our income. Even though it is anonymous, I and perhaps the others don't feel comfortable sharing that information with you or anyone else. This may viewed by you to be a sign of insecurity or uptightness, but our reaction to this will make it an uphill battle for you to attempt to drag the information out of us, creating hostility on both side. So, perhaps, it will benefit you to rewrite and refocus what you are looking for.

Sorry for writing this lengthy post, I fear I have tired your eyes. As to the importance of finance in my career. Does it support mine and my family subsistence? Does it give me excess for me to create a retirement basket in the future and to indulge myself in the activities I pursuit? If the answer to both of them is yes, then most likely I will consider the offer. If not, then most likely it's out of my mind. These two questions are often the first I think of when receiving or looking for job offers. Hope my answer has help you. I mean no disrespect.

Godspeed to your career.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

It must be a generational thing but why would you ask strangers on an internet forum about financial advice - I'm off back into my simple world


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

starthrower said:


> Okay, I'm not much help because I'm retired. And you're right about the status flaunting thing. Just check the Hi Fi thread where members are discussing their 1,500 dollar headphones. But good luck to you, Brahms.


Totally get your point, Star, and can't, in good conscience, offer a vigorous defense for what we've all been observing but it's human nature to over-compensate with embellishments for one's perceived shortcomings.

If it's any consolation, it could be worse...

Can you even imagine the amount of "status flaunting" that would occur were there to be a "manhood measurement" poll?


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Malx said:


> It must be a generational thing but why would you ask strangers on an internet forum about financial advice - I'm off back into my simple world


With my limited exposure, I think it is more common in recent years, as the appeal of being anonymous and receiving instant advice is considerable. For instance, in a hypothetical situation, let say that you are relativity young in your career, and you have a lot of credit card debt. For some people, however unwise it could be, they don't want to share with those around them such as their parents or others, as they might feel embarrassed and ashame to admit their shortcoming. So they go on the internet to seek help. Of course, there are many other reasons for doing so, such as the recent GameStop short squeeze, where many posters alleged their motive is to "stick it to the men" that is the hedge funds they perceived causing the 2008 recession.

I think this trend is becoming more prominent as you have universities offering Reddit as a resource for budgeting advice such as this one (click on Personal Finance Subreddit).

It's a bit odd, as I don't use these resources as I have my own, but I agree with you, that more younger people are turning to the internet for that matter. This may not be a bad thing necessary if one understands the constraints of the platforms and the dangers surrounding them, which I don't think all participants on those platforms understand.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

around $10K-11K gross

(But I live in Bosnia... so it's not really comparable, given much lower costs of living here)


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> Half this forum is ridden with implications of status; comparing salaries is a little less discreet, but other than that not so different from much of TC.


Brandishing indicators of wealth comes across as incredibly vulgar. If someone has really expensive headphones at least they could pretend to have got hold of them as an amazing bargain on ebay or something. If they are unwilling to deceive like that, then they should at least make some remark about how stupid they feel to have spent so much on the things, and make it appear like it was a bit of a financial stretch.

I remember working for a start up where, shortly after it floated, the car park started to contain a number of flashy new cars. The jokes about the proud new owners were derisive. (Anyone buying such a vehicle should at least have had the good taste of leaving it at home and driving to work in their little old runaround.)


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I don't think the current results are representative.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> ... If someone has really expensive headphones at least they could pretend to have got hold of them as an amazing bargain on ebay or something. If they are unwilling to deceive like that, then they should at least make some remark about how stupid they feel to have spent so much on the things, and make it appear like it was a bit of a financial stretch....


You want people to be deceitful? What if they don't feel, "Stupid", and simply enjoy having nice things they maybe worked hard to get.

Is wearing a Rolex watch, because it's the only watch you own, "Incredibly vulgar"?

Asking for a friend.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

A well-functioning clock is a well-functioning clock. Rolex is about status, according to some more or less conscious parameters, especially a signal of obtained economical wealth and a picked up perception of masculinity, not much else.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Chilham said:


> Is wearing a Rolex watch, because it's the only watch you own, "Incredibly vulgar"?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


It's incredibly vulgar however many watches you own, unless you hide it under very long sleeves, and only check it surreptitiously when no one else is looking.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Eclectic Al said:


> It's incredibly vulgar however many watches you own, unless you hide it under very long sleeves, and only check it surreptitiously when no one else is looking.


What's the point of having an expensive watch if you're going to hide it away. Show it proudly and let others drool in envy!!

I don't wear a watch and never look at wrists. Is Rolex a big deal? More important, is it accurate and lasts a long time?


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Bulldog said:


> What's the point of having an expensive watch if you're going to hide it away. Show it proudly and let others drool in envy!!
> 
> I don't wear a watch and never look at wrists. Is Rolex a big deal? More important, is it accurate and lasts a long time?


They do last, and hold their value. We watch Antiques Roadshow and old Rolex watches appear regularly. One from the 40s was worth $300,000.00. As far as I know they are also very good at keeping time, which is why for a long time they were the preferred watch for pilots. But as with everything else, the older ones might have been better made, but that is just a guess.

I also stopped wearing a watch years ago.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I just checked and here you can also rent them for your appearance at a night in town, Important business meetings, etc. Some less expensive Rolexes start at around $50 a week + deposit. The agency is called 'lejetur', 'rentawatch'.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

joen_cph said:


> I just checked and here you can also rent them for your appearance at a night in town, Important business meetings, etc. Some less expensive Rolexes start at around $50 a week + deposit. The agency is called 'lejetur', 'rentawatch'.


I could buy a Casio for a lot less than that. It will keep time and I can have lunch with the change.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> It's incredibly vulgar however many watches you own, unless you hide it under very long sleeves, and only check it surreptitiously when no one else is looking.


:lol:

Okay. ....


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

joen_cph said:


> A well-functioning clock is a well-functioning clock. Rolex is about status, according to some more or less conscious parameters, especially a signal of obtained economical wealth and a picked up perception of masculinity, not much else.


You should head over to Rolex Forums (www.rolexforums.com) and share your opinion with the good people there.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

This reverse snobism over a Rolex watch is silly. If you can afford one, it is a fine timepiece that will out last most other watches and keep excellent time, as well as provide you with a quality piece of design on your wrist. 

I would much rather have a analog gear watch than a digital quartz one, and you can't do better than a Rolex.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

This conversation reminds me of a joke:

A lawyer opened the door of his BMW, when suddenly a car came along and hit the door, ripping it off completely. When the police arrived at the scene, the lawyer was complaining bitterly about the damage to his precious BMW. "Officer, look what they've done to my Beeeemer!!!", he whined.

"You lawyers are so materialistic, you make me sick!!!" retorted the officer, "You're so worried about your stupid BMW, that you didn't even notice that your left arm was ripped off!!!"

"Oh nooooo....", replied the lawyer, finally noticing the bloody left shoulder where his arm once was, "Where's my Rolex???!!!!!"


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

I have a Rolex. A Polar Explorer II. I sold $1M for my company a few years ago, which meant a nice bonus, Presidents Club (expenses paid to the sales conference on Cancun), and a Rolex of my choice up to $10k. 

I rarely wear it and have talked about selling hot but my wife tells me, "No, you worked hard for that." I suspect an ulterior motive.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

SanAntone said:


> This reverse snobism over a Rolex watch is silly. If you can afford one, it is a fine timepiece that will out last most other watches and keep excellent time, as well as provide you with a quality piece of design on your wrist.
> 
> I would much rather have a analog gear watch than a digital quartz one, and you can't do better than a Rolex.


Yeah, the genesis of this little digression into watches was really about conspicuous consumption. Rolex was just an example. A favourite example is Burberry: ridiculously expensive, but substantially damaged by cheap products mirroring its style. When the point is the look, and cheaper versions do the job just as well, you are quite vulnerable to imitators. The problem Burberry had was that it became just a little bit "chavvy": nothing wrong with that, but not great for a premium brand.

That takes me to the example of Joe Lycett, a comedian who changed his name to Hugo Boss, in protest against Hugo Boss taking legal action against a range of businesses with Boss in their name.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51703859
One fun thing about visiting certain tourist destinations was always the cheap copy products: I remember getting a Bo55 belt, for example: it did the job.

If someone would sell me a watch which was ludicrously large and heavy, and called a Rölex then I would be in the queue (as long as it was pretty cheap and told the time). Of course, Rolex would immediately reach for the lawyers, even if the manufacturers made clear at point of sale that the product was not a Rolex, because the point is to charge a lot for the name, so the name must be guarded carefully.


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## Conrad2 (Jan 24, 2021)

Well, I'm not a watch collector as it's an expensive hobby to support in my personal judgement, but I did know someone that was. He like to say that each watch has its own personality and I have to agree with him on that statement. The watch field is very diverse and has something for everyone. I think that the blanket statements about watches does injustice to it.

Here is a Reddit thread that goes into different watch brands for those who are interested.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Chilham said:


> I have a Rolex. A Polar Explorer II. I sold $1M for my company a few years ago, which meant a nice bonus, Presidents Club (expenses paid to the sales conference on Cancun), and a Rolex of my choice up to $10k.
> 
> I rarely wear it and have talked about selling hot but my wife tells me, "No, you worked hard for that." I suspect an ulterior motive.


When I got my first large royalty check I first bought my wife a nice piece of jewelry, then a Montblanc pen and nice desk lamp for myself. Twenty years later both still work and provide me with a quality experience when reading or writing, two things I do everyday.

Nice things bring quality to your life, and I have preferred to save up for something of quality, which will last, instead of buying a cheap version, which usually wears out quickly and is often depressing to look at and hold.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

I must plead guilty to the inverse snobbery thing: for example, I can't help it, but I hate cufflinks with a vengeance.

The link below is to an amusing article:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2005/dec/01/shopping.jesscartnermorley


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

SanAntone said:


> When I got my first large royalty check I first bought my wife a nice piece of jewelry, then a Montblanc pen and nice desk lamp for myself. Thirty years later both still work and provide me with a quality experience when reading or writing, two things I do everyday.
> 
> Nice things bring quality to your life, and I have preferred to save up for something of quality, which will last, instead of buying a cheap version, which usually wears out quickly and is often depressing to look at and hold.


Yeah. I like nice pens.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

The Rolex IMO is a retro overly expensive watch that looks outdated given that it hasn’t changed much for decades. My understanding is that the timekeeping part of it is not particularly special. Otoh, my Apple Watch Series Six gives me a reasonably good EKG tracing, an amazingly accurate oxygen saturation, plays my audible books and podcasts, shows me the weather expected during the day and cost me a fraction of a Rolex.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

What about Bulova watches? Those were supposed to be very high quality, high end watches, no?

Once had a guy come to the back door of the print shop I worked at selling watches. A coworker bought one, saying wow, ten bucks for a Bulova watch. I said, let's see. He showed me. I said, "that's not a Bulova. It says Bolivia!" Did that ever wipe the smile off his face. Thinking he was buying a hot (stolen) watch, he got ripped off for a piece of junk.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

^^^ That brought back memories of the city I grew up in. On the Main Street, a reminder of a Mayberry street, there was a small jewelry story with a big Bulova sign in the window.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I have a Rolex Yacht-Master. It was a gift. I couldn't have afforded it on my own.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

My annual income is more than $518.400 




...in my dreams. :lol:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Dimace said:


> My annual income is more than $518.400
> 
> ...in my dreams. :lol:


I'd be quite happy with half of that much.


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