# Your best violinist - why?



## Ingélou

I'm a returner to the violin & for most of my life I haven't listened to classical music or violin soloists.
Honestly, I'd never even heard of Haifetz till last year.
So - help me, please. I'd be very grateful.
Who do you rate as your 'best violinist ever' - living or dead - and just why do you think they're so good.
Which is their best/most characteristic piece & what should I be looking out for?

Ignorance is not bliss, believe me!


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## Ukko

There are three factors (at least) to be considered: 

1) Precision, both with the bow and with pitch. That's Heifetz. Recommended hearing: the recording of selections from Bach's sonatas, made in the '30s, and the Beethoven concerto, recorded in 1955 with Munch and the BSO

2) String tone. D. Oistrakh and Rosand. For Oistrakh, the Tartini sonatas; Rosand, any of the recording made for Vox Candide.

3) Incomparable recorded performance. Szigeti, Prokofiev concerto #1, made (I think) in 1932. This is a jaw-dropper.

"On the horizon". Keleman. The leader of the string quartet by that name, and performer in another jaw-dropping performance, the solo sonata by Bartók (probably available only on the Web).

The term 'best' is really not useful in this context; there are a lot of '10s' out there.


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## millionrainbows

I'm weird, but I like Paul Zukofsky, as much for his playing and sound as the music he has been associated with; his artistic vision. He's an artist who just happens to play violin.

He did some stuff on Vanguard, now out-of-print vinyl, but maybe available on CD now (if so, I want it). On Columbia, he did some chamber music of Charles Ives with Gilbert Kalish. This is also OOP, but is available in a different session on Folkways, as the Sonatas for Violin & Oiano, with Kalish.

My first experience of Zukofsky, however, coincided with my first experience of Steve Reich and minimalism: Reich's Violin Phase, on Columbia vinyl LP, still out of print. I was amazed when I examined the grooves of the record, and saw the patterns created by the repetition.

Zukofsky Is associated with Yale or Boston; he's done some conducting on the New World label. There must be some legal reason his Columbia stuff is still OOP.

Believe it or not, I like Zukofsky for his unique sound: sort of a "scratchy" sound, the opposite of Perlman. Weird, huh?


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## DavidA

Heifetz was a tremendous violinist. It has been reported that Isaac Pearlman had every single recording he made to be listened to in wonder. Of course Heifetz wasn't the only great violinist. And h is was not the only way of playing the violin. But he was probably the greatest who ever lived and set standards that are unenviable for those who come after. Some people used to find his playing cold but in fact it was extremely subtle. He could get more expression into a bar line and most people coming in a page of music. He was to all accounts a pretty awful man. But as a violinist he was without peer.


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## MichaelSolo

It is hard, almost impossible to say who was "the greatest" because each and any of the well-known names bested each other in something.

Having said that, my personal favorite (of the 20-th century onwards) are 1. David Oistrakh, 2. Gidon Kremer, 3. Oleg Kagan, 4. Gill Shaham, 5. V. Spivakov, 6. Sara Chang, 7. Yasha Heifetz, 8. I. Perlman.

Not all periods and not all performances of each are rated in this order (say, some Perlman interpretations are more interesting than some of Oistrakh's); this is rather an "average" ranking, and a very subjective one.


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## Ingélou

This is fabulous, everyone. (At least I now know how to spell 'Heifetz'!)
'Best' was really a short cut. I am interested in your personal tastes & opinions.
Thanks for all the great replies so far, and greedily I hope for more.


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## JCarmel

Further to your post, Ingenue ...and the comment at the end of DavidA's post about the man, Jascha Heifetz...this is an interesting and revealing documentary about his life and career, which I watched on SkyArts2 recently but is also viewable via this youtube link


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## MaestroViolinist

Well for me it goes something like this: 
1. Itzhak Perlman 
2. Vladimir Spivakov 
3. David Oistrakh 
4. Isaac Stern 
5. Yehudi Menuhin 
6. Anne-Sophie Mutter 
7. Kyung-wha Chung 
8. Gidon Kremer


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## Ukko

MaestroViolinist said:


> Well for me it goes something like this:
> 1. Itzhak Perlman
> 2. Vladimir Spivakov
> 3. David Oistrakh
> 4. Isaac Stern
> 5. Yehudi Menuhin
> 6. Anne-Sophie Mutter
> 7. Kyung-wha Chung
> 8. Gidon Kremer


Some surprising choices in there... for a violinist to make.



:devil:


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## JCarmel

I like Nathan Milstein, Arthur Grumiaux, Kyung-Wha Chung, Isaac Stern, Leonid Kogan and David Oistrakh ... and I think that'll do for now.


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## Ukko

JCarmel said:


> I like Nathan Milstein, Arthur Grumiaux, Kyung-Wha Chung, Isaac Stern, Leonid Kogan and David Oistrakh ... and I think that'll do for now.


Back in the day when Milstein and Stern were each making many recordings, a lot of folks thought of them as being in a competition for Number One. Well... I didn't say _everybody_ thought so.


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## MichaelSolo

I like Mutter too, very much so. Forgot about her making the list. Milstein, Kogan, and other violinists mentioned - they are all great, and I would have a hard time justifying why, say, Kogan is not included in my list and Kagan is...


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## Ingélou

Hilltroll72 said:


> Some surprising choices in there... for a violinist to make.
> :devil:


Hilltroll - what *are* you up to?


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## Taggart

DavidA said:


> Heifetz was a tremendous violinist.


I'm coming back to the piano but had never heard of Heifetz until I read Max Jaffa's biography "Life on the Fiddle".

Max Jaffa was not a "great" violinist but British people of a certain age will remember him fondly.


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## Ingélou

The 'other violinist' on British 50s/60s black-and-white television was Yehudi Menuhin, who makes MaestroV's list, I see. Unlike the short tubby Max Jaffa, Menuhin looked like a musician, with his long hair & anaemic build. Jaffa was a few years older than Menuhin & tells a story in his book of listening to the 14 year old YM's debut public performance. After two minutes, Yehudi's A string peg suddenly gave; he calmly went to his pianist, retuned his A, and carried on. YM's sang froid convinced Max that he was 'going places'!


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## Ukko

Ingenue said:


> Hilltroll - what *are* you up to?


Who, me?

:angel:

_MV_'s list looks, ah, uncritical to me. I used to know an amateur violinist (a neurologist) who tended to speak in superlatives about every recorded violinist whose name I mentioned... but I figured that was just because he was a nice guy.


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## LordBlackudder

http://www.youtube.com/user/lindseystomp
http://www.youtube.com/user/ViolinTay
http://www.youtube.com/user/gbritaney
http://www.youtube.com/user/Furyxx
http://www.youtube.com/user/lara6683

cool


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## Ukko

Ingenue said:


> The 'other violinist' on British 50s/60s black-and-white television was Yehudi Menuhin, who makes MaestroV's list, I see. Unlike the short tubby Max Jaffa, Menuhin looked like a musician, with his long hair & anaemic build. Jaffa was a few years older than Menuhin & tells a story in his book of listening to the 14 year old YM's debut public performance. After two minutes, Yehudi's A string peg suddenly gave; he calmly went to his pianist, retuned his A, and carried on. YM's sang froid convinced Max that he was 'going places'!


Thanks for the anecdote; 'outward confidence' (apparently supported from within) was a Menuhin trademark.

I find it moderately interesting that there has been no mention of Zino Francescatti. I think it is possible, without haunting Good Will outlets for LPs, to hear Francescatti play the Bach Chaconne. Somehow, he makes the double-stops sound like he's emulating a string orchestra... and I also get the strange notion that I can hear him sweat. Anyhow, his playing had both propulsion and an alive tone. Sometimes I had the feeling that he was 'living dangerously', but that may have been an illusion.


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## ptr

I really feel that You have to separate the dead and the living. I don't posses any descriptive technical violin terms, but here are Three each that communicate to me directly.

*Dead:*

*Jascha Heifetz*, he has that kind ineffable focus in every detail that might be boil down to a superior musicality.

*David Oistrakh*, has the utmost control of tone and melody, his tone is warm

*Michael Rabin*, Everything Heifetz was boiled down to the essence of the Violin. One of a select few that can make sense of Paganini's 24 Caprices (for me).

*Living:*

*Maxim Vengerov*, like the brilliant son David Oistrakh deserved (yea, I'm not counting Igor! ), slightly less warm tone that he makes up for with his technical tour de force.

*Isabelle Faust*, everything I've heard her play makes me discover new depths in the work at hand.

*Fabio Biondi*, because he made me (re)discover baroque music and violin in a completely new light.

There are dozens of runners up that deserve a mention, but that is another topic... 

/ptr


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## millionrainbows

I read that Itzhak Perlman "inherited" Yehudi Menuhin's violin. It sure is a rich-sounding one. BTW, I got to see Perlman back in 1974-75. It was mind-blowing! He wore us all out! He played an Ives Sonata for vln & pno, and got us laughing out loud; then he wore us out with unaccompanied Bach! Wow!


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## Ukko

^ ^ "Separate the dead and the living"? The living violinists probably like keeping some distance... . I don't separate*** them, because I hear all of them only on recordings.

***Biondi and Manze are my Heroes of the Baroque Fiddle. But that feels like a whole new ballgame.


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## Ingélou

Milord Blackudder, your selection isn't my thing but charming nonetheless. (Interesting on link 2 to see that one can play the violin in gloves; handy to know when I play weekly in my violin teacher's arctic front room!) 
Oh, btw, is it just a coincidence that the violinists in your links are young, female & decidedly nubile? 

Thanks again for all the latest posts: it's such an education for me ... but my lesson's tomorrow, so I suppose I'll have to mosey along!


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## joen_cph

Favourites include *Ivry Gitlis* (great, unconventional and often a bit gipsy-like approach to music;good Tchaikovsky concerto and Debussy Sonata, for instance); *Leonid Kogan, Oleg Kagan* and *Igor Oistrakh*, splendid figures of the Russian violin school, technically perfect and with an impressive, broad tone; Kogans´s Berg Concerto, Kagan´s Gubajdulina Concerto and Igor Oistrakhs´ Elgar concerto are examples.

*Gidon Kremer* for his imaginative approach to the repertoire; *Jascha Heifetz* and early *Isaac Stern*, the first with an individual approach a bit similar to Gitlis, the second - likewise of Russian origin - for a technically perfect, very engaged style too.


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## MichaelSolo

Yesterday, I listened to Bach's Chiaconne played by a) Y. Menuhi, b) G. Kremer, c)I. Stern, d)H. Schering, e) Mullova. Unfortunately, could not find David Oistrakh. Here are my impressions.

I liked Kremer the best, with Isaac Stern close second, if not sometimes the first. It apperad to me they represented highs of two different schools of Bach's interpretation. The first is the traditional one, started by Heifetz and perfected by Stern (what a power! what a foresight, what a perfection and completeness in each phrase, each bow, each dynamic motion!). The sheet music is usually marked with this style, which represents a traditional "deciphering" of Bach's chords and contrapuncutal structure of the piece.

Gidon Kremer is clearly of the more modern school. All of a sudden, a second line of text appeared where only one was visible before! He found polyphony within the polyphony, and the fire that appeared hot already, suddenly blazed like the Sun! Very respectful to the original writing and the traditional interpretation, Kremer managed to add to the music a nerve, his nerve, and that made his performance almost hypnotic.

I was generally disappointed with Menuhin. Yegudi is a passionate performer, however the youtube clip I saw showed him somewhat detached, and amused by violinistic sonority of the piece more than anything else.

Schering (Szering) was good. However, he is largely a romantic violinist, and romanticism falls a bit short in Bach interpretation. Chiaconne indeed could be though of as a love song, too, but to me it is a bit more than that.

Mullova. Oh well. For one, I did not see her perform for a while, so I was pleased she was standing straight and her right hand elbow was not hitting the sky as I remember it did before. She represents a typical Spivakov's student: talented, sensitive, and a little bit without a clue (though she would disagree with the last description vehemently). Indeed, her performance appeared thought through and thoroughly planned. She new exactly what she was doing with every note and phrase. She tried to find an original interpretation, and she hit the aim: the performance was musical and original. With the only caveat, it was not about Bach in its highest to me. It was about her. Talented. Sensitive. Taking on the subject of, for this instance, Bach, to show off, to demonstrate what she can do with him. And, she lost a lot of Bach in the process. Though, it was definitely interesting and entertaining. How strange..


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## moody

As far as tone in concerned ,there has never been a sound as golden as that of Fritz Kreisler unless it might be that of Mischa Elman.
Heifetz to me brings to mind Bernard Shaw's famous phrase about Nellie Melba. "Uninterestingly perfect and perfectly uninteresting". His Beethoven Concerto with Muench is like some sort of long-distance sprint to the finish and is bereft of any feeling whatsoever.
The one recording that does seem seem to have pierced his inner being is the Sibelius concerto.
Ruggiero Ricci has just as much technique,more humanity and a bigger repertoire.
Alfredo Campoli,"the bel canto virtuoso",he based his sound on the great tenor opera singers.
As different from Heifetz as it is possible to be his Beethoven concerto with the RPO and John Pritchard is both beautiful and my favourite version.
By the way Szigeti made some very interesting recordings with Bela Bartok,these should be heard at all costs.
Nathan Milstein started off giving concerts with his friend Vladimir Horowitz, a critic dubbed them "Children Of the Revolution"
They ended up going to Europe and did not return to Russia.
A critic in America described Milstein as "...a vibrant Russian capable of magical things upon a violin...above and beyond his prestigious technical equipment is a brilliant mind moulding the music to a coherent and symmetrical whole".
Ida Haendel the extraordinary Polish violinist is another favourite of mine.
Accepted into the Chopin School in Warsaw of music at age four a year later won first prize playing the Beethoven concerto.
A pupil of Carl Flesch, as a soloist each performance was a new experience for the audience and her total commitment to the music sent the toughest critic home in a state of euphoria.


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## Ingélou

Thanks to the people who have taken my ignorant inquiry in good part & answered it in detail. 

I do appreciate it.


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## moody

MichaelSolo.

Could it be that you are referring to the Polish artist Henryk Szeryng if so it would be respectful to get his name right.
His interpretations of the Bach solo sonatas and partitas is considered by many to be one of the finest on record.
If not and the Schering person you refer to is a hitherto unknown, I apologise.


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## jani

I am not a violinist but i always enjoy Maxims playing, on this lesson he demonstrates his deep dominance over the instrument and his spiritual understanding of the piece.


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## MichaelSolo

moody said:


> MichaelSolo.
> 
> Could it be that you are referring to the Polish artist Henryk Szeryng if so it would be respectful to get his name right.
> His interpretations of the Bach solo sonatas and partitas is considered by many to be one of the finest on record.
> If not and the Schering person you refer to is a hitherto unknown, I apologise.


I gave Szeryng's name in German transliteration. Original is, perhaps, better.


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## joen_cph

Funny about *Heifetz*´ old reputation for being a cold violinist ... compared to today´s mainstream performances, his choice of tempi and accents are often unusual. He can be a bit hasty sometimes, though. But this Bach Double Concerto for instance is great 



 and his Bruch beautiful 




I only know *Ida Haendel* from her incredible Pettersson and a Sibelius Concerto, but the Pettersson work is too harsh for an initial recommendation and the Sibelius (EMI) didn´t strike me as that extraordinary ...

EDIT: The Haendel You-Tube Sibelius obviously shows a great musician


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## Ukko

Heifetz was not a notably kind person; dumped on a few people publicly - Stern for instance. Maybe he also dumped on a friend of _moody_'s.


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## Guest

I can't add any incredible insight. So I will just say who I like.

Heifetz is at the top of my list. His recordings of Beethoven's, Brahms', Mendelssohn's, Tchaikovsky's, Bruch's, and Sibelius' VC are my reference recordings.

I also enjoy Oistrakh, Szeryng, and Menuhin of those who are no longer with us.

Among HIP performers, Manze is at the top of my list, but I also enjoy Standage, Biondi, and Carmignola.

Also on my list of violinists that I enjoy, that are still among the living: Faust, Fischer, Podger.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Heifetz was not a notably kind person; dumped on a few people publicly - Stern for instance. Maybe he also dumped on a friend of _moody_'s.


I think his general reputation as cold and superficial speaks for itself--or did you think that I invented it ?
Also anybody who admires his Beethoven concerto recording presumably considers everyone else to be wrong.
But I really can't be bothered to argue this is an individual choice thing ,just get on with it.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> I think his general reputation as cold and superficial speaks for itself--or did you think that I invented it ?
> Also anybody who admires his Beethoven concerto recording presumably considers everyone else to be wrong.
> But I really can't be bothered to argue this is an individual choice thing ,just get on with it.


Heifetz's reputation tended to be invented by ordinary people who couldn't understand how anyone could play with passion who looked so frigid. The other group who regarded abs cold and unfeeling were musicologists, people who could read music but not hear it! Surely someone compares Campoli to Heifetz in Beethoven might be such av person


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## Ingélou

I admit that I am influenced by what I know of the life of an author/composer/painter. But the work ought to speak for itself, surely?


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## kv466

Hmmmm.

I like many and pretty much all of the names already mentioned. Anyone here who knows me, however, knows that I like a certain something from any performance I hear; not only piano. Three violinists who have made me feel like I was in violin heaven are:

Erick Friedman
Joseph Silverstein 
Arthur Grumiaux


In addition to that, I love many of the already listed but these are my favorite off the top.


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## Ukko

kv466 said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> I like many and pretty much all of the names already mentioned. Anyone here who knows me, however, knows that I like a certain something from any performance I hear; not only piano. Three violinists who have made me feel like I was in violin heaven are:
> 
> Erick Friedman
> Joseph Silverstein
> Arthur Grumiaux
> 
> In addition to that, I love many of the already listed but these are my favorite off the top.


I haven't heard much of Silverstein; recommend? The other two guys are excellent.

I have been remiss in not mentioning Mela Tenenbaum. Her Bach solo sonatas are unique in my experience; like Gitlis if he were gypsy. Also, _Ingenue_ should be aware of Josef Suk the younger; the _smoothest_ fiddler I have ever heard, even more so than Grumiaux, though the latter is more expressive.


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## joen_cph

True concerning *Josef Suk*; he seems to have made a good deal of somewhat average recordings, but the Debussy sonata I heard recently made me reconsider this view; very good, and it´s a work that often becomes too placid in recordings.

Another one that hasn´t been mentioned was *Gulia Bustabo*, a truly great violinist, as heard in the Bruch 



unfortunately politically/morally discredited ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guila_Bustabo)

I didn´t know *Tenenbaum* & am giving her Bach 



 a listen - sounds good!


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## moody

DavidA said:


> Heifetz's reputation tended to be invented by ordinary people who couldn't understand how anyone could play with passion who looked so frigid. The other group who regarded abs cold and unfeeling were musicologists, people who could read music but not hear it! Surely someone compares Campoli to Heifetz in Beethoven might be such av person


I thought you would appear on the horizon,it's another Lupu thing I suppose.It does not necessarily follow that your favourites are best you know.
All you have do do is listen and all will be revealed.
As for your first point ,I had never seen Heifetz play so had no idea as to his demeanour until fairly recently.
As for comparing Campoli with Heifetz,the only comparison I made was in regard to the Beethoven concerto.But I have many,maybe all, of Campoli's recordings and very few Heifetz.Now is that proof of my lack of taste and knowledge in comparison with yours ---I don't think so.
Why would musicologists be picking on Heifetz,that's a very strange opinion and it makes no sense.
Of course there is another group,those who join the bandwagon.if somebody can play faster and make less mistakes than anyone else they must be better---no it does not work that way.
You have in no way explained the fairly common aqttitude of the listening PUBLIC towards Heifetz,why him and not Ricci or one of the other virtuosos is he the only aloof seeming artist ?
This is not the thread for this type of display and in any case discussions with you lead nowhere I have found,the OP wanted our choice of favourites and that has been done.


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## Ingélou

Hilltroll72 said:


> I haven't heard much of Silverstein; recommend? The other two guys are excellent.
> 
> I have been remiss in not mentioning Mela Tenenbaum. Her Bach solo sonatas are unique in my experience; like Gitlis if he were gypsy. Also, _Ingenue_ should be aware of Josef Suk the younger; the _smoothest_ fiddler I have ever heard, even more so than Grumiaux, though the latter is more expressive.


Thanks, Hilltroll, will check it out. Since you are a man of multitudes, I hope this isn't from your jokey side?  Ah no, I see from the post below, it's been given a certificate of authenticity. Whatever, thanks for all your posts on this thread & particularly for your first.

Q: I'm not sure I always like 'smooth'; it depends on the context; can 'smooth' be 'slick' or 'gooey' sometimes?


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## DavidA

moody said:


> I thought you would appear on the horizon,it's another Lupu thing I suppose.It does not necessarily follow that your favourites are best you know.
> All you have do do is listen and all will be revealed.
> As for your first point ,I had never seen Heifetz play so had no idea as to his demeanour until fairly recently.
> As for comparing Campoli with Heifetz,the only comparison I made was in regard to the Beethoven concerto.But I have many,maybe all, of Campoli's recordings and very few Heifetz.Now is that proof of my lack of taste and knowledge in comparison with yours ---I don't think so.
> Why would musicologists be picking on Heifetz,that's a very strange opinion and it makes no sense.
> Of course there is another group,those who join the bandwagon.if somebody can play faster and make less mistakes than anyone else they must be better---no it does not work that way.
> You have in no way explained the fairly common aqttitude of the listening PUBLIC towards Heifetz,why him and not Ricci or one of the other virtuosos is he the only aloof seeming artist ?
> This is not the thread for this type of display and in any case discussions with you lead nowhere I have found,the OP wanted our choice of favourites and that has been done.


You are entitled to your opinion, one which is not shared by some pretty eminent musicians. Kreisler, after accompanying the 12-year-old Heifetz at the piano in a performance of the Mendelssohn concerto, said to all present, "We may as well break our fiddles across our knees." Heifetz visited much of Europe while still in his teens. In April 1911, Heifetz performed in an outdoor concert in St. Petersburg before 25,000 spectators; there was such a sensational reaction that police officers needed to protect the young violinist after the concert. In 1914, Heifetz performed with the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Arthur Nikisch. The conductor was very impressed, saying he had never heard such an excellent violinist.
On October 27, 1917, Heifetz played for the first time in the United States, at Carnegie Hall in New York, and became an immediate sensation. Fellow violinist Mischa Elman in the audience asked "Do you think it's hot in here?", whereupon the pianist Leopold Godowsky, in the next seat, imperturbably replied, "Not for pianists." The reviews by the New York critics were rapturous.
The violinist Itzhak Perlman, who himself is noted for his rich warm tone and expressive use of portamento, describes Heifetz's tone as like "a tornado" because of its emotional intensity. 
As the vast majority of Heifetz's recordings are still in the catalogue are still in demand after 55 years I think this is a indication of his quality as a musician.
BTW I used to have an old Decca LP of Campoli playing the Mendelssohn. A good violinist but not in Heifetz's class, I think.


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## moody

DavidA said:


> You are entitled to your opinion, one which is not shared by some pretty eminent musicians. Kreisler, after accompanying the 12-year-old Heifetz at the piano in a performance of the Mendelssohn concerto, said to all present, "We may as well break our fiddles across our knees." Heifetz visited much of Europe while still in his teens. In April 1911, Heifetz performed in an outdoor concert in St. Petersburg before 25,000 spectators; there was such a sensational reaction that police officers needed to protect the young violinist after the concert. In 1914, Heifetz performed with the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Arthur Nikisch. The conductor was very impressed, saying he had never heard such an excellent violinist.
> On October 27, 1917, Heifetz played for the first time in the United States, at Carnegie Hall in New York, and became an immediate sensation. Fellow violinist Mischa Elman in the audience asked "Do you think it's hot in here?", whereupon the pianist Leopold Godowsky, in the next seat, imperturbably replied, "Not for pianists." The reviews by the New York critics were rapturous.
> The violinist Itzhak Perlman, who himself is noted for his rich warm tone and expressive use of portamento, describes Heifetz's tone as like "a tornado" because of its emotional intensity.
> As the vast majority of Heifetz's recordings are still in the catalogue are still in demand after 55 years I think this is a indication of his quality as a musician.
> BTW I used to have an old Decca LP of Campoli playing the Mendelssohn. A good violinist but not in Heifetz's class, I think.


I'm encouraged by the information that you ONCE owned a record of Campoli,that must give you a deep insight into him as a musician. Coincidentally he won the gold medal at the London Music Festival playing the Mendelssohn in 1919 when he was twelve.
He had at least two things in common with Heifetz,he felt that shoulder rests ruin the vibrations of the violin.
Also he was undemonstrative on the platform. one critic commented :"Unlike other violinists Mr. Campoli plaed the finale of the Tchaikovsky in a standing position rather than all fours". but he hasn't been accused of being cold or aloof.
You may be interested to note that Campoli,along with Heifetz,Milstein,Oistrakh,Kreisler,etc.appear in Margaret Campbell's well respected book "The Great Violinists"---the foreword is by Ruggiero Ricci.
In my opinion a person wishing to pass judgement on these pages should be Au Fait with the subject or of what use is that judgement ?
It is of no use saying that you heard it on line or at a friend's house or fifteen years ago.
As for your comment on the number of Heifetz recordings still in the catalogue,you will remember that I used exactly that argument re: Schnabel recently,but you treated that as being of no consequence.
I have thirty one recordings of Campoli and only a mere eleven of Heifetz but at least they are sufficient to give me some idea of what I'm talking about.
You will note that I don't get into baroque music or Wagner--altho' I notice that you did a pretty nifty job in that direction recently
---closed the thread didn't they ?


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## Ukko

Ingenue said:


> Thanks, Hilltroll, will check it out. Since you are a man of multitudes, I hope this isn't from your jokey side?  Ah no, I see from the post below, it's been given a certificate of authenticity. Whatever, thanks for all your posts on this thread & particularly for your first.
> 
> Q: I'm not sure I always like 'smooth'; it depends on the context; can 'smooth' be 'slick' or 'gooey' sometimes?


As _joen_ may have suggested, there are places where 'smooth' works. Suk's solo sonatas/partitas by Bach don't work for _me_, mostly because of that characteristic. He makes the Chaconne much too 'civilized'. However, I am forced by my overpowering sense of justice to report that Grumiaux's Bach is smoother than I like - and that is sacrilege is some quarters. You should grab a listen.


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## DavidA

moody said:


> I'm encouraged by the information that you ONCE owned a record of Campoli,that must give you a deep insight into him as a musician. Coincidentally he won the gold medal at the London Music Festival playing the Mendelssohn in 1919 when he was twelve.
> He had at least two things in common with Heifetz,he felt that shoulder rests ruin the vibrations of the violin.
> Also he was undemonstrative on the platform. one critic commented :"Unlike other violinists Mr. Campoli plaed the finale of the Tchaikovsky in a standing position rather than all fours". but he hasn't been accused of being cold or aloof.
> You may be interested to note that Campoli,along with Heifetz,Milstein,Oistrakh,Kreisler,etc.appear in Margaret Campbell's well respected book "The Great Violinists"---the foreword is by Ruggiero Ricci.
> In my opinion a person wishing to pass judgement on these pages should be Au Fait with the subject or of what use is that judgement ?
> It is of no use saying that you heard it on line or at a friend's house or fifteen years ago.
> As for your comment on the number of Heifetz recordings still in the catalogue,you will remember that I used exactly that argument re: Schnabel recently,but you treated that as being of no consequence.
> I have thirty one recordings of Campoli and only a mere eleven of Heifetz but at least they are sufficient to give me some idea of what I'm talking about.
> You will note that I don't get into baroque music or Wagner--altho' I notice that you did a pretty nifty job in that direction recently
> ---closed the thread didn't they ?


I am very glad you have all those recordings of Campoli. I do hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy all the Heifetz recordings I have. i remember seeing Campoli playing once - he appeared somewhat overweight. My friends all commented on it. Good violinist though. I have heard him play the Beethoven too. Not bad but not a patch on Heifetz, of course. I've no doubt the shade of Heifetz is mortally offended that you have more recordings of Campoli than him. 
BTW is your understanding proportional to the number of recordings you have? Something that must have escaped me when I studied mathematics!


----------



## JCarmel

All this talk of vintage Violinists has persuaded me to dig out my dvd...and it's really worth another watch!
It's This'Un....


----------



## Ukko

DavidA said:


> [...]
> BTW is your understanding proportional to the number of recordings you have? Something that must have escaped me when I studied mathematics!




Now there is a *fine* example of the "pot & kettle" cliche. Surely arguing Brit geezers can do better than that? You guys are supposed to be guardians of the old English values; that includes both florid rhetoric and civilized debate.

_Ingenue_, pay attention here; your husband will have to don the mantle soon enough.

[I reject the notion of _female geezer_; too uncivilized.]


----------



## moody

DavidA said:


> I am very glad you have all those recordings of Campoli. I do hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy all the Heifetz recordings I have. i remember seeing Campoli playing once - he appeared somewhat overweight. My friends all commented on it. Good violinist though. I have heard him play the Beethoven too. Not bad but not a patch on Heifetz, of course. I've no doubt the shade of Heifetz is mortally offended that you have more recordings of Campoli than him.
> BTW is your understanding proportional to the number of recordings you have? Something that must have escaped me when I studied mathematics!


the number of recordings you have is obviously proportional as far as understanding an artist you wish to discuss,how else would you get to know that person---follow them around the world?
How would you learn about a famous singer from the past except by listening to as many recordings as possible,what authority does one have otherwise apart from attending many concerts.
Or have I got it wrong,maybe your not deeply serious and just like to listen to the nice tunes.Let me know because if you are not a serious student in these matters I certainly am quite happy to let you roam on your way with your memory of your one old record of Campoli which proves he's not as good as Heifetz naturally.
Yes,he was a very big man and he liked cigars and he was a member of my bridge club in Thame,Oxford. we play for the Campoli Cup each year.
I note that you are still employing your habit of answering nothing that a person puts to you--rather like a politician when they squirm away from things they wish to avoid.
Lastly,"not a patch on Heifetz of course",what on earth does that mean,lots of wrong notes,lousy intonation,no feeling,he didn't smile enough or what. It means nothing,but if you said you preferred Heifetz that is different and acceptable to all.try not to be combative, you'll frighten the children.


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Now there is a *fine* example of the "pot & kettle" cliche. Surely arguing Brit geezers can do better than that? You guys are supposed to be guardians of the old English values; that includes both florid rhetoric and civilized debate.
> 
> _Ingenue_, pay attention here; your husband will have to don the mantle soon enough.
> 
> [I reject the notion of _female geezer_; too uncivilized.]


Well I am and civilised to boot,you know that very well now don't you--gentle as a lamb that's me.


----------



## Ingélou

Hilltroll, my husband & I are cultivating the Great British Art of Reticence* here, as the civilised fingers-crooked-round-teacup thing to do!

* Except to remark - gosh, I'm learning a lot here, & not all of it about music...


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Hilltroll, my husband & I are cultivating the Great British Art of Reticence* here, as the civilised fingers-crooked-round-teacup thing to do!
> 
> * Except to remark - gosh, I'm learning a lot here, & not all of it about music...


It's just that some people are over excitable--eating too much chocolate can do that to you .


----------



## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> Now there is a *fine* example of the "pot & kettle" cliche. Surely arguing Brit geezers can do better than that? You guys are supposed to be guardians of the old English values; that includes both florid rhetoric and civilized debate.
> 
> _Ingenue_, pay attention here; your husband will have to don the mantle soon enough.
> 
> [I reject the notion of _female geezer_; too uncivilized.]


Your application of 'pot and kettle' in this context escapes me.

If you watch the British House of Commons you will see Moody and I are both in line with that same tradition!


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> Yes,he was a very big man and he liked cigars and he was a member of my bridge club in Thame,Oxford. we play for the Campoli Cup each year.


Actually I thought all violinists were members of a 'bridge' club!


----------



## joen_cph

_Moody_, which Campoli recordings would you recommend? I haven´t heard any, except a short introduction of the Saint-Saens 3rd Concerto on you-t (



), where I would have liked a stronger and less abrupt phrasing (like Ricci´s: 



) ...


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> I note that you are still employing your habit of answering nothing that a person puts to you--rather like a politician when they squirm away from things they wish to avoid.
> Lastly,"not a patch on Heifetz of course",what on earth does that mean,lots of wrong notes,lousy intonation,no feeling,he didn't smile enough or what. It means nothing,but if you said you preferred Heifetz that is different and acceptable to all.try not to be combative, you'll frighten the children.


I see you didn't bother to read what I had previously written.

But what about: "there are many violinists. Then there is Heifetz." (David Oistrakh) ?

BTW I don't notice you giving much justification of your opinion of Campoli.


----------



## moody

DavidA said:


> I see you didn't bother to read what I had previously written.
> 
> But what about: "there are many violinists. Then there is Heifetz." (David Oistrakh) ?
> 
> BTW I don't notice you giving much justification of your opinion of Campoli.


Just as you don't have to justify your feelings about Heifetz,neither do I,nobody does.It is not about justification but what attracts you.
Whether instrumental or vocal and there is no fault in technique it becomes a matter of that artist's sound and then their presentation of the what they feel the music is about.
In the case of the Beethoven concerto it is the grandest of violin concertos and my feeling has always been that the Heifetz recording is too fast and in effect undignified.
I have other versions that have something special including those by Zino Francescatti, Mischa Elman, Roman Totenburg and,wait for it,Heifetx with the New York Phil. cond.Dimitri Mitropoulos "live" in 1956, much preferable to the Muench.
But I reiterate again it is in the ears of the individual as to what he /she finds attractive in the end.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

As others have already suggested the notion of a single "best" violinist is an impossibility. I couldn't even name a single favorite because that would change with the repertoire... and my mood. The violinists that I would consider among the finest... based on their representation on recordings that I greatly value, and the fact that I would seriously consider or seek out anything they had recorded... I would include:

Yehudi Menuhin
Nathan Milstein
John Holloway
Rachel Podger
Andrew Manze
Gido Kremer
Christian Ferras
Joseph Szigeti
Jascha Heifetz
David Oistrakh
Anne-Sophie Mutter
Henryk Szeryng
Arthur Grumiaux
Fabio Biondi


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

I have other versions that have something special including those by Zino Francescatti...

Francescatti is another violinist that has grabbed my attention... but unfortunately I have yet to hear much by him.


----------



## moody

joen_cph said:


> _Moody_, which Campoli recordings would you recommend? I haven´t heard any, except a short introduction of the Saint-Saens 3rd Concerto on you-t (
> 
> 
> 
> ), where I would have liked a stronger and less abrupt phrasing (like Ricci´s:
> 
> 
> 
> ) ...


I use Presto Classical as my supplier most of the time and from what appears to be available I would note the following:

Elgar. Concerto (also 'cello Concerto with Casals) Cond.Boult Heritage.
Mozart,Brahms and Beethoven Sonatas with Peter Katin. Orchestral Concert. ***
Handel. Sonatas 1-6 (Plus Bach Chaconne). Testament.
Elgar/Mendelssohn Concerti. (1954/1949). Beulah.
Beethoven/Tchaikovsky Concerti. Krips/Argenta. Beulah.
Bliss Concerto (plus Bazzini,Debussy,Hubay and Hummel) Beulah.
Bruch. Scottish Fantasia. Mendelssohn Concerto. Saint-Saens Havanaise,Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. Beulah.
Coates (not the light music composer) Concerto. (very rare lost recording) Colin Sauer,soloist.
Moeran. Concerto. Campoli. Divine Art Historic sound.


----------



## joen_cph

On the basis of your list, I discovered that I have the mentioned Bliss/Campoli (Decca Eclipse) - my only recording of the work - will give it a listening !


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

*A view from a real enthusiast*

I could quote myself (since this topic has come up in the past), but really, why quote myself when I can quote someone who's devoted a lot more time and study to this topic than I have? Also (IIRC), he served for a time as a radio-host of a broadcast segment featuring samples from his multi-hundred (or more) recordings of violin and other bowed-instrument art. When this guy speaks on this topic, he's worth listening to...


Taneyev said:


> To me:
> Heifetz
> David Oistrakh
> Hassid
> Young Menuhin
> Igor Politkovsky
> Prihoda
> Young Ricci
> Neveu
> Perlman before the 80s.
> Andrei Korsakoff
> Dinicu
> Gioconda da Vito
> Milstein
> Odnoposoff


----------



## Ukko

^ ^ I like the 'young' spec for Menuhin, and the 'before the 80s' for Perlman. Also the inclusion of Odnoposoff. Not so much the 'young' for Ricci. However, for the _non-musician listener_, 'time and study' only results in making the 'known universe' larger, and potentially in providing a better understanding of what is possible. For instance, without having heard Szigeti (not on _Taneyev_'s list) perform the Prokofieff 1, how could one know that such playing is possible?

This thread's only service to _Ingenue_ (besides reinforcing her understanding of men's foibles) is in making her more aware of what's out there to be heard. Quality judgements are her responsibility.

 (very)


----------



## moody

Taneyev's list just goes to prove that he is capricious as everyone else.

The young Ricci what does that mean ,before he was 65, because his technical standard was high well into advanced years,and unlike Menuhin made no recordings when very young as far as I know.
Where is Huberman, Zimbalist,Kreisler,Elman,Szigetti, Michael Rabin,Erica Morini,Stern,Grumiaux,Kogan,,this is just a personal list like all the others.and goes to prove that these threads are of interest value but that's all.
They give an insight into members tastes and ideas but they hold no authority of any kind whatever.
I have no knowledge of Politkovsky and found information difficult to dig up,he is hardly a big name but a personal favourite of Taneyev's ,but that is what the OP asked for.


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> ^ ^ I like the 'young' spec for Menuhin, and the 'before the 80s' for Perlman. Also the inclusion of Odnoposoff. Not so much the 'young' for Ricci. However, for the _non-musician listener_, 'time and study' only results in making the 'known universe' larger, and potentially in providing a better understanding of what is possible. For instance, without having heard Szigeti (not on _Taneyev_'s list) perform the Prokofieff 1, how could one know that such playing is possible?
> 
> This thread's only service to _Ingenue_ (besides reinforcing her understanding of men's foibles) is in making her more aware of what's out there to be heard. Quality judgements are her responsibility.
> 
> (very)


What foibles,you have foibles --personally I never listen to them.


----------



## Ingélou

Thanks, guys! I have a great resource here, both names of violinists I can listen to, & a sort of violinist-rodeo, with bucking, barging, biting, buffeting broncos. Moody, of course this has 'no authority'. I just asked which violin players people like best so I can try out a few, as my own knowledge stops with Yehudi Menuhin, and then only because he appeared on Variety Television. 

Mea culpa - I didn't realise what furies would be unleashed by using the word 'best' as a short-hand for 'those quality violinists you like best'. But then, ingenue as I am, I didn't realise that the furies were out there in their war kennels panting & slavering, snarling & foam-flecked, just waiting to be unleashed. 

Isn't music supposed to unite us all in peace & harmony? Huh!


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Thanks, guys! I have a great resource here, both names of violinists I can listen to, & a sort of violinist-rodeo, with bucking, barging, biting, buffeting broncos. Moody, of course this has 'no authority'. I just asked which violin players people like best so I can try out a few, as my own knowledge stops with Yehudi Menuhin, and then only because he appeared on Variety Television.
> 
> Mea culpa - I didn't realise what furies would be unleashed by using the word 'best' as a short-hand for 'those quality violinists you like best'. But then, ingenue as I am, I didn't realise that the furies were out their in their war kennels panting & slavering, snarling & foam-flecked, just waiting to be unleashed.
> 
> Isn't music supposed to unite us all in peace & harmony? Huh!


You mean like there is an Easter bunny?
Yeah,of course.
By the way I didn't say that "this" had no authority,i said that our lists did not.


----------



## Ingélou

I asked for opinions; thanks to all those answered my question by giving me their own personal list for me to check out - ooh, maybe over the next five years! Plenty to go on & I know you'll want me to make my own mind up, rather than go by someone else's 'authority'. 

I'm truly grateful for these good-natured posts; truly amazed by the others...

What an education!


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> What foibles,you have foibles --personally I never listen to them.


'The first principle is you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.'
(Richard P Feynman)


----------



## DavidA

While on the subject of violinists, has anyone mentioned Nigel Kennedy? Now his faux-punk outfits get on my nerves, his affected working class accent irritates me and if you read his own sleeve notes to his CDs they are generally excruciating. However, in my opinion, he is a first class violinist who would be taken a lot more seriously if it were not for the 'look, I'm a rebel' show he somehow feels he must put on. The early recording he made of the Elgar concerto is really superb (I think it won a Gramophone Award) and I also have a live recording of the Beethoven concerto with Tennstedt which is, in its way, masterly, despite the slow tempi. His recording of the Four Seasons is hugely enjoyable, however much the purists may quibble. So I'd definitely include him on my list - as long as he just sticks to playing the violin!


----------



## DavidA

Hilltroll72 said:


> ^ ^ I like the 'young' spec for Menuhin,
> 
> (very)


Yes. The young Menuhin. I don't think the older man's technique really stood up to scrutiny too much at times. The performance of the Beethoven with Furtwangler was one of the great recordings of this concerto. He really makes it tell.

The fact I have recordings of this concerto by Heifetz, Faust, Menuhin, Kennedy and Schneiderhan, and enjoy them all, each one bringing out different facets of this marvellous work, surely shows how great Beethoven's masterpiece is. Or am I just being capricious?


----------



## DavidA

I think the above discussion itself shows just how much comes down to personal taste, given the general excellence of the technical standard of playing on recordings these days. Of course, there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to enjoy artists of very different temperaments with divergent styles of interpretation. I always resist the point in programs like CD review (BBC radio) where the critic has to make one choice out of sometimes literally hundreds. At the end of the day, given the aforementioned criteria, almost everything comes down to personal taste.


----------



## Ingélou

moody said:


> You mean like there is an Easter bunny?


Yes, there is an Easter Bunny, the personification of joy in the natural world.

William Blake speaks of Innocence, Experience, and Higher Innocence. I choose the Higher Innocence.


----------



## moody

Ingenue said:


> Yes, there is an Easter Bunny, the personification of joy in the natural world.
> 
> William Blake speaks of Innocence, Experience, and Higher Innocence. I choose the Higher Innocence.


You can't imagine how happy I feel for you.


----------



## Ingélou

Another story from Max Jaffa's biog, for a bit of cheer (touch of the Easter Bunny?):

Every year he and his ensemble were the guests of a co-operative society in the North of England. They were put up in style & the members took the concert very seriously. One trip, though, Max found that he'd forgotten to pack the trouser part of his evening suit, and even though he had the pick of the Co-op's clothing store, he could find none to fit. So they decided that everyone in the ensemble would match Max, the leader, by performing in ordinary day suits.

The lady president of the Co-op Society said she'd like to explain to the audience why Max's orchestra wasn't in its usual sartorial splendour. She went out in front of the orchestra, and before Max's walk-on, and said, 'You may wonder why the orchestra are all wearing day suits. Well, you see, it's because Mr Jaffa had a little accident with his trousers...'

The whole hall erupted, and Max Jaffa wrote that walking on after this introduction was the hardest thing he'd ever had to do.


----------



## millionrainbows

I remember when the shocking news was revealed to me in the second grade: "There ain't no Easter bunny; it's your parents, man. Here, take a hit off this joint."


----------



## Ingélou

Well, to be honest, I never heard of the Easter Bunny while I was growing up. It's an American habit really. Still, any excuse for a celebration!


----------



## millionrainbows

The Easter bunny is a symbol of fertility, as is the egg; symbols of life's regeneration. Hooray! Spring is here!


----------



## JCarmel

It might be where you are, millionrainbows...but it ain't arrived yet where I am. It's Freezing..with snow forecast as a definite possibility for Easter Sunday!


----------



## Guest

moody said:


> I think his general reputation as cold and superficial speaks for itself--or did you think that I invented it ?
> *Also anybody who admires his Beethoven concerto recording presumably considers everyone else to be wrong.*
> But I really can't be bothered to argue this is an individual choice thing ,just get on with it.


Ah, I love when people presume to know exactly what I am thinking. I don't consider everybody else to be wrong. I DO consider many others to be different. I like numerous recordings of the Beethoven VC - I just prefer Heifetz. I don't keep a scorecard with me, nor do I follow the score to keep track of who gets what notes right and who follows the score most accurately. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for those who do. Just enjoy the music.


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> I
> Also anybody who admires his Beethoven concerto recording presumably considers everyone else to be wrong.
> it.


Just noticed this astounding piece of logic. Hmmm. I had better jettison my recordings by Menuhin, Kennedy, Faust, Schneiderhan, et al as I now consider them wrong! I'm glad I was informed as I enjoy listening to them. Perhaps I shouldn't have done!


----------



## Ingélou

millionrainbows said:


> The Easter bunny is a symbol of fertility, as is the egg; symbols of life's regeneration. Hooray! Spring is here!


Would that it were! My sister, who lives in Derbyshire, England, has a snowdrift as big as a house in front of her house!


----------



## Guest

I am doing a comparison now of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin. I have had the Szeryng recording for some time, but just acquired Heifetz' recording from 1952, and Milstein's from 1975. I'll see which I like best.


----------



## moody

DrMike said:


> I am doing a comparison now of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin. I have had the Szeryng recording for some time, but just acquired Heifetz' recording from 1952, and Milstein's from 1975. I'll see which I like best.


I look forward in eager anticipation.


----------



## moody

DavidA said:


> Just noticed this astounding piece of logic. Hmmm. I had better jettison my recordings by Menuhin, Kennedy, Faust, Schneiderhan, et al as I now consider them wrong! I'm glad I was informed as I enjoy listening to them. Perhaps I shouldn't have done!


Most of your posts astound me and the piece of logic you allude to is yours not mine---is in fact an invention and worked up from nothing.
my comments were aimed at the overfast hard recording made by Heifetz,an opinion of many ever since it was issued,surely a person of your vast knowledge is aware of this ?


----------



## DavidA

moody said:


> Most of your posts astound me and the piece of logic you allude to is yours not mine---is in fact an invention and worked up from nothing.


Interesting. You not only don't read what I say, you don't even read what you yourself say!


----------



## DavidA

Another great young violinist to come along recently is Alina Ibragimova. Her recording of the Bach partitas and sonatas has a wonderful air of mystery. I believe her Beethoven sonatas are very highly regarded as well. Has anyone heard them?


----------



## Guest

moody said:


> Most of your posts astound me and the piece of logic you allude to is yours not mine---is in fact an invention and worked up from nothing.
> my comments were aimed at the overfast hard recording made by Heifetz,an opinion of many ever since it was issued,surely a person of your vast knowledge is aware of this ?


I honestly have no knowledge of the opinions out there of Heifetz, or the Beethoven VC recording specifically, other than hints that I read here on this forum. I don't find it overfast or hard. And, again, referring to your own statement, my preference for this recording does not necessitate my presuming all other recordings wrong. I have a wide variety - Heifetz, Faust, Schneiderhan, Suk, Kopatchinskaja, Mutter, Perlman, and Jansen. I don't consider any of them "wrong." Some I don't care for as much as others.


----------



## Guest

moody said:


> I look forward in eager anticipation.


You'll have to wait a little longer - I got sidetracked by Bach's St. Matthew Passion, as Easter is fast approaching. I am comparing Suzuki to Gardiner (Suzuki has a superb St. John Passion, but Gardiner, I think, has the edge on the St. Matthew).


----------



## Taggart

millionrainbows said:


> The Easter bunny is a symbol of fertility, as is the egg; symbols of life's regeneration. Hooray! Spring is here!


Our local news station had a viewer's photo of a snow egg that they had made!


----------



## DavidA

DrMike said:


> You'll have to wait a little longer - I got sidetracked by Bach's St. Matthew Passion, as Easter is fast approaching. I am comparing Suzuki to Gardiner (Suzuki has a superb St. John Passion, but Gardiner, I think, has the edge on the St. Matthew).


Have you heard Harnoncourt?


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

MaestroViolinist said:


> Well for me it goes something like this:
> 1. Itzhak Perlman
> 2. Vladimir Spivakov
> 3. David Oistrakh
> 4. Isaac Stern
> 5. Yehudi Menuhin
> 6. Anne-Sophie Mutter
> 7. Kyung-wha Chung
> 8. Gidon Kremer


I thought you didn't like Gidon Kremer...?

I would probably say my top selection would be something like
1. Itzhak Perlman
2. Fabio Biondi
3. David Oistrakh
4. Jascha Heifetz
5. Elizabeth Wallfisch
6. Yehudi Menuhin
7. Anne-Sophie Mutter
8. Richard Tognetti
9. Rachel Podger
10. Arthur Grumiaux
11. Gidon Kremer
12. Nigel Kennedy
13. Isaac Stern
14. Hilary Hahn


----------



## Guest

DavidA said:


> Have you heard Harnoncourt?


Which one? I have heard one recording, from I believe 2001, with the Vienna Boys' Choir, Arnold Schoenberg Choir, and his Concentus Musicus Wien. I quite enjoyed that - but I had borrowed it from the library when I lived in Ohio, and haven't brought myself to buy it yet. I understand he has recorded it many times. I would certainly like to hear his earlier ones. His early recording of the Brandenburg Concertos were instrumental in turning me on to HIP performances.


----------



## DavidA

DrMike said:


> Which one? I have heard one recording, from I believe 2001, with the Vienna Boys' Choir, Arnold Schoenberg Choir, and his Concentus Musicus Wien. I quite enjoyed that - but I had borrowed it from the library when I lived in Ohio, and haven't brought myself to buy it yet. I understand he has recorded it many times. I would certainly like to hear his earlier ones. His early recording of the Brandenburg Concertos were instrumental in turning me on to HIP performances.
> View attachment 15487


That's the version I have. I think he recorded it twice before. One HIP other a itch traditional orchestra. The latest one seems to combine the best of both worlds. Superb!


----------



## worov

My favorite violonist is Salvatore Accardo. His recording of the Bach Sonatas and Partitas is the most amazing I have ever heard. Here's an excerpt :


----------



## MaestroViolinist

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I thought you didn't like Gidon Kremer...?


Not much, but he's alright for some music.


----------



## JCarmel

I have just finished watching all-through for the second time in a few days, the dvd that I have called 'The Art of the Violin'.
My first reaction upon doing so was how thoroughly fed-up I was with violinists playing music too quickly just to show off their fabulous techniques...the second, was how saddened I was to hear about the violinist Josef Hassid, whose career and talent was cut desperately short by personality problems and mental illness...eventually dying as a result of an unsuccessful lobotomy in 1950. Once, listening to Hassid, Fritz Kreisler said 'A Heifetz violinist comes around every 100 years, a Hassid every 200.'

So I've watched, experienced, enjoyed archive film performances of the 20th century's 'great fiddlers' and many have impressed me greatly. But actually, I've come back full-circle to the violinist that I chose when I first watched the disc... when I bought it some years ago...as being 'the' greatest...who combined amazing technique with great musicality...who didn't play something faster...just to show-off his facility & just because he could. That was what finally took my choice away from Heifetz...I have his Tchaikovsky concerto on cd and he just plays some of the passages_ too _quickly in my opinion...whereas my choice of Nathan Milstein, impresses me with his great skill but doesn't leave me behind! I'm enjoying and 'participating' with his music-making, all the way.


----------



## Bolero

I really love Joshua Bell and Nigel Kennedy but maybe I am too mainstream.


----------



## Vaneyes

D. Oistrakh, Kremer, Vengerov, Mutter, Lin, Chung, Mullova, Mordkovitch, Suwanai, Zimmermann, Rachlin, Gringolts, Repin, Dumay, Little, Bean, Holmes, Kennedy, Zehetmair, Laredo, Shaham, Nikolitch, Ughi, Koh, Ehnes, Hope.

'Cause they sound good.


----------



## evagreen

Haifetz is best!!some magic in his music it attracts people and give piece of mind!


----------



## Bolero

Actually I will add Ehnes to my list. I would rate him at the top right now for me, I am not sure why I had forgotten him.

No one has mentioned Nicola Benedetti I think........what do we think of her? She has a pure sound.


----------



## MichaelSolo

DrMike said:


> ....
> View attachment 15487


What an unpleasant album cover!

Good intent which such gaudy results..


----------



## mrravioli

LEONID KOGAN. Too bad he didn't record more.


----------



## Pugg

mrravioli said:


> LEONID KOGAN. Too bad he didn't record more.


Strong point made, tell us more please, welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


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## pcnog11

So many fine violinist, so difficult to choose. Each performer has their own style, technique and musical specialty. However, if considering all the aspects of violin playing and the diversity of music they played. Perlman and Stern are the two that I would pick. However, I have more Perlman CDs than Stern and seems to have a better connection to Perlman.


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## Judith

Vaneyes said:


> D. Oistrakh, Kremer, Vengerov, Mutter, Lin, Chung, Mullova, Mordkovitch, Suwanai, Zimmermann, Rachlin, Gringolts, Repin, Dumay, Little, Bean, Holmes, Kennedy, Zehetmair, Laredo, Shaham, Nikolitch, Ughi, Koh, Ehnes, Hope.
> 
> 'Cause they sound good.





Bolero said:


> I really love Joshua Bell and Nigel Kennedy but maybe I am too mainstream.


Love Joshua Bell. My favourite violinist! Not as keen on Nigel Kennedy.


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## hpowders

For me the best violinists are the ones who bring tears to my eyes when playing unaccompanied Bach.

There are only two: Jascha Heifetz and Nathan Milstein.


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## Pugg

Judith said:


> Love Joshua Bell. My favourite violinist! Not as keen on Nigel Kennedy.


Must be his looks, just a little bit, right?


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## Judith

Pugg said:


> Must be his looks, just a little bit, right?


Must admit, have a bit of a crush on him lol. He is a good musician though! Only discovered him last year as a friend told me about him!


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## Pugg

Judith said:


> Must admit, have a bit of a crush on him lol. He is a good musician though! Only discovered him last year as a friend told me about him!








His first album cover from 1990.


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## Judith

Pugg said:


> His first album cover from 1990.


Got this album. Love it and love picture of him. He has matured nicely and his performances reflect this! (He is still good looking lol)


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## Marinera

> For me the best violinists are the ones who bring tears to my eyes when playing unaccompanied Bach.
> 
> There are only two: Jascha Heifetz and Nathan Milstein.


^
I was addicted to Milstein's Chausson Poeme, really amazing playing; you just reminded me that I would like to investigate his discography a bit more in depth. Ah, and I've recalled hearing his Bruch violin concerto which impressed me a lot.

Ginette Neveu's my favourite with Sibelius, and anywhere else, intensity and sensitivity combined. Arthur Grumiaux for Bach specifically, I like what I hear. 
Take for example Giga from Bach's partita No.2 and compare Grumiaux and Hahn's versions, everything is so different! Though I like Hahn's version, but phrasing and musical personalities seem less ellusive in these examples.


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## JACE

Judith said:


> Got this album. Love it and love picture of him. He has matured nicely and his performances reflect this! (He is still good looking lol)


Back in the early-90s, I saw Joshua Bell perform Prokofiev's Violin Sonatas with Olli Mustonen. Wonderful music-making! I've been a fan ever since. 

I suppose my all-round favorite violinist is *David Oistrakh*. Others that I've particularly enjoyed include Isaac Stern, Itzhak Perlman, Kyung Wha Chung, and Maxim Vengerov.


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## Vaneyes

Usually on these types of threads with any legs to them, everyone gets mentioned. I see Midori is an exception to the rule.

Her career started early. Age 11 with the NYPO and Zubin Mehta. In no time, she had ten albums with Sony. Then, she seemingly disappeared.

Today, I read she'll join the Curtis faculty. Age 45. Time flew.

http://www.philly.com/philly/entert...faculty-of-the-curtis-institute-20170627.html


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## Animal the Drummer

Arthur Grumiaux has been my favourite ever since I was entranced by his fabulous recording of the Beethoven concerto accompanied by Alceo Galliera half a century ago - a true aristocrat of the instrument who never played an ugly note in his life (and incidentally a better pianist than I'll ever be).


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## David Phillips

I have a soft spot for Mischa Elman. Here he is playing on old chestnut, but with what soul!


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## hpowders

Midori!!

She has the most beautiful, personal recorded performances of the Bach Unaccompanied Violin Sonatas & Partitas that I have ever heard.


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## ldiat

Pugg said:


> Must be his looks, just a little bit, right?


her looks Nicola Benedetti


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## Barbebleu

ldiat said:


> her looks Nicola Benedetti


Also a terrifically great violinist. And a fellow countryman!


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## ldiat

i like her also Hilary Hahn again great violinist


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## Ukko

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. I reread most of it, with great pleasure - even including the Moody-DavidA duel.


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## Pat Fairlea

David Oistrakh. There are so many fine violinists on record/CD (Neveu, Heifetz, Grappelli) but I always come back to Oistrakh. There is a real warmth and depth to his tone, and he always seemed to understand the shape and structure of a piece, whether it was Beethoven or Taneyev.


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## Guest

My favorite violinists are adults. I'm plum sick and tired of child prodigies. Sure, it's great to see a child who can rip on the violin but all these great violinists were doing the same thing at that age. The pressure put on these kids who get recording contracts is enormous and wears many of them out by the time they should really be blossoming. It was like these classical labels were all competing to see who could sign the youngest prodigy. Enough already! Then I was on YT looking at some kid playing a Beethoven sonata or something and these people leaving comments! "Well, she has mastery of the mechanics but the emotional depth is absolutely atrocious!" Yeah, she's 8, you gnat-brain! 

With that said, Haifetz is a fave, Kyung Wha Chung of course, I think Elizabeth Pitcairn is pretty good. Of course, my standards aren't particular rigid. If you can make it through "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" without making a mistook, you're pretty good by my standards.

As violinists go, the soloists get all the notice. Ensemble players are never noticed. I've played in some ensemble groups and I'll tell you something: It takes a lot of practice to be a good ensemble player. Ensemble players make the soloist sound good. You don't just have your lines to worry about. You have to play as a unit. Every note, every stoke of the bow has to be just so or it sounds like crap. I found doing that kind of thing so tedious that I threw myself back into jazz. Man, just let me play my bass and not worry about all this crap! 

And I also know that soloists often don't understand what the hell they're playing either. I worked with a jazz guitarist who was the best I ever worked with. He was phenomenal! To this day, I've never played with a better guitarist. He could play anything and play it extremely well. His clarity and dexterity was unparalleled. Then one day, I tried to show him so guitar chords to play while the pianist was soloing so as not to overshadow him. To my surprise, I realized he couldn't really play chords. I was ten times better at it than he was! He often couldn't play the change of one chord to the next. I realized that he doesn't really understand the music. He doesn't understand the harmonic underpinnings. Every bar represents a chord or two but he didn't know that and he didn't know which chords nor the progression. He knew how to play from this note to that note on a lead run. he knew that incredibly well but he didn't really understand why he was going from this note to that note. It was just intuitive.

In an ensemble, I backed this teenaged girl on the violin. She played very well as a soloist but when she tried to play with us as an ensemble player--she frankly stunk! She was terrible. When she soloed, she had a natural ability to play all these notes and go crazy with it but when she had tried ensemble, she did not play well with others.

A lot of soloists are what I call musical athletes. They have an amazing ability to solo and do these finger-twisting runs but they don't ultimately really understand what they are playing.


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## Ingélou

^^^^ What a very interesting post! :tiphat:

You're so right about the art of playing as a not-soloist! I realised that early on when I came back to the fiddle in retirement. My teacher, a professional violinist & violist who plays in all sorts of ensembles and small orchestras, can even make me sound good!


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## Guest

I think ripienists and ensemble players probably make better teachers because they understand everything about the music in the same way a mechanic understands everything about the car you drive but all you care about is that it looks snazzy and you can out-race anybody who crosses your path. The mechanic may not be able to drive the way you can but he understands the car you drive far more deeply than you ever will. Likewise, an ensemble-ist understands the piece--its harmonies, its rhythms, why melody works the way it does, etc. The soloist MAY understand that BUT I have found that they often don't. Hey, they have 30 pages of notes to memorize! They have to have it all in their head by the time they go out onstage to perform it. They don't have time to analyze the piece down every rabbit hole. But the ensemble lives in those rabbit holes.

But, on top of that, some soloists just seem to know how to solo. They are individualists. The ensemble have to work as a unit and they have the soloist's back. We catch them if they fall. Do they need us? Maybe not. Some are so good, they can just go out there and play by themselves and mesmerize everybody but most classical pieces are not written that way. Ensembles are usually required. If we don't sound good, the piece doesn't sound good. But if the soloist doesn't sound good, we make him/her sound good. Most soloists, from what I've seen, do understand the value of a good ensemble.


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## fluteman

JACE said:


> Back in the early-90s, I saw Joshua Bell perform Prokofiev's Violin Sonatas with Olli Mustonen. Wonderful music-making! I've been a fan ever since.
> 
> I suppose my all-round favorite violinist is *David Oistrakh*. Others that I've particularly enjoyed include Isaac Stern, Itzhak Perlman, Kyung Wha Chung, and Maxim Vengerov.


David Oistrakh is probably my no. 1 too, though I have a soft spot for Nathan Milstein and Leonid Kogan, as I heard them both in person as a young 'un. The uncanny thing about Oistrakh is, he somehow finds exactly the right path, whether it's baroque, classical, romantic or modern, chamber or large scale concerto, Russian or not, lyrical, delicate, classically refined, intensely romantic, energetic and modern, live performance or studio, etc. As nearly all the many works he recorded get rerecorded over and over, you begin to appreciate how often his version remains the overall best one, or very close to it.


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## Merl

Good point about soloists. I play very basic rhythm guitar and play along well with bass and drums as a rhythm section. I know of some very good guitarists who frankly cannot do the same. They just either don't get the feel of the music or want to be louder than everyone else. This is particularly telling when they're palm-muting or accenting certain chords.


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## fluteman

Victor Redseal said:


> My favorite violinists are adults. I'm plum sick and tired of child prodigies. Sure, it's great to see a child who can rip on the violin but all these great violinists were doing the same thing at that age. The pressure put on these kids who get recording contracts is enormous and wears many of them out by the time they should really be blossoming. It was like these classical labels were all competing to see who could sign the youngest prodigy. Enough already! Then I was on YT looking at some kid playing a Beethoven sonata or something and these people leaving comments! "Well, she has mastery of the mechanics but the emotional depth is absolutely atrocious!" Yeah, she's 8, you gnat-brain!
> 
> With that said, Haifetz is a fave, Kyung Wha Chung of course, I think Elizabeth Pitcairn is pretty good. Of course, my standards aren't particular rigid. If you can make it through "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" without making a mistook, you're pretty good by my standards.
> 
> As violinists go, the soloists get all the notice. Ensemble players are never noticed. I've played in some ensemble groups and I'll tell you something: It takes a lot of practice to be a good ensemble player. Ensemble players make the soloist sound good. You don't just have your lines to worry about. You have to play as a unit. Every note, every stoke of the bow has to be just so or it sounds like crap. I found doing that kind of thing so tedious that I threw myself back into jazz. Man, just let me play my bass and not worry about all this crap!
> 
> And I also know that soloists often don't understand what the hell they're playing either. I worked with a jazz guitarist who was the best I ever worked with. He was phenomenal! To this day, I've never played with a better guitarist. He could play anything and play it extremely well. His clarity and dexterity was unparalleled. Then one day, I tried to show him so guitar chords to play while the pianist was soloing so as not to overshadow him. To my surprise, I realized he couldn't really play chords. I was ten times better at it than he was! He often couldn't play the change of one chord to the next. I realized that he doesn't really understand the music. He doesn't understand the harmonic underpinnings. Every bar represents a chord or two but he didn't know that and he didn't know which chords nor the progression. He knew how to play from this note to that note on a lead run. he knew that incredibly well but he didn't really understand why he was going from this note to that note. It was just intuitive.
> 
> In an ensemble, I backed this teenaged girl on the violin. She played very well as a soloist but when she tried to play with us as an ensemble player--she frankly stunk! She was terrible. When she soloed, she had a natural ability to play all these notes and go crazy with it but when she had tried ensemble, she did not play well with others.
> 
> A lot of soloists are what I call musical athletes. They have an amazing ability to solo and do these finger-twisting runs but they don't ultimately really understand what they are playing.


You are very right about the difference between soloists and ensemble players. But the best can adapt and do both. As I mentioned above, David Oistrakh was a prime example. I once heard the Tokyo string quartet in one of their first recitals with replacement first violinist Peter Oundjian. A great violinist, it was quickly clear why they chose him, even though he obviously was not from Tokyo (Canadian, in fact). But he played like a soloist and stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb, ruining the ensemble sound. A couple years later I attended another of their recitals, and he blended in perfectly and they achieved the same characteristic Tokyo SQ sound they had with their original first violinist. Alas, his violin career ended early due to physical ailments.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Lately my favorite has been Patricia Kopachinskaja, but my all time hero is Itzhak Perlman. There are many awesome violinists around


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## ldiat

has any one mention this violinistz? she dances. KATICA ILLÉNYI


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## hpowders

I like Midori for Bach's Unaccompanied Sonatas & Partitas. Rachel Barton Pine for Beethoven and Brahms concertos.

Why? They move me like no other violinists I've heard.


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## Pugg

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Lately my favorite has been Patricia Kopachinskaja, but my all time hero is Itzhak Perlman. There are many awesome violinists around


Bravo, his tone is so rich that it's almost impossible to compare to other mortals.


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## PeterF

I don’t believe anyone included one of my favorites - Francescatti ?

My other favorites include:

Oistrakh
Milstein
Stern
Szeryng
Julia Fischer
Grumiaux
Schneiderhan
Perlman


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## Bulldog

From the past - David Oistrakh
Current - Viktoria Mullova (modern instrument, period instrument, conductor).


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## pmlevine

I'm still very new to the classical music scene, but currently my favorite violinist is Anne-Sophie Mutter. Reason? A.S. Mutter playing violin concerto, Beethoven op.61 Herbert von Karajan conducting. Her playing was much more than technical execution, she imparted incredible emotion and involvement with this selection.




Phil


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## Josquin13

I have way too many favorite violinists to choose just one. But from the past, my favorites have included Fritz Kreisler, Michael Rabin (whose Massenet "Meditation" is a favorite), David Oistrakh (especially in Sibelius, Brahms, & Prokofiev), Josef Suk, Nathan Milstein (especially in Bach), Oleg Kagan (especially in Beethoven & Mozart Violin Sonatas), Yehudi Menuhin, and Arthur Grumiaux. While among current violinists, I'm a big fan of Uto Ughi, especially for his Bach, Salvatore Accardo (especially in chamber music), Ulf Wallin, Christian Tetzlaff, and all the remarkable female violinists today, especially Alina Ibragimova and Lisa Batiashvili, who have become special favorites.

I also like many violinists for specific repertoire & works, such as Wolfgang Schneiderhan in Beethoven's Violin Concerto, Elmar Oliveira in the Barber Violin Sonata, Shlomo Mintz in Prokofiev Violin Concertos & Sonatas, Gidon Kremer for various contemporary works, such as the Glass Violin Concerto, Gerard Poulet in Debussy, Ravel, & Faure (with pianist Noel Lee), Itzhak Perlman in Beethoven & Brahms violin sonatas (with Ashkenazy), etc.

Among period violinists, which I view as a separate category, I've most enjoyed the playing of Anton Steck, Elizabeth Wallfisch, Elizabeth Blumenstock, Helene Schmitt, Emlyn Ngai, François Fernandez, again, Alina Ibragimova (who goes back & forth between modern & period violins), and all the remarkable Italian violinists today--Pablo Valetti, Enrico Gatti, Chiara Banchini, Stephano Montanari, Giuliano Carmignola, Enrico Casazza, Enrico Onofri, etc..

What I like most about violinists is the beauty of their tone, the integrity of their interpretations, their technique, and the ability to project with ease (like Rabin, for instance), and in some cases--like Josef Suk, for example, the ability to sound like a different violinist with the music of each new composer they play.


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## Taplow

No single violinist could ever take the title of _favourite_. Many shine brilliantly in a single work, or for the works of a single composer or period, or they shone for a while in a certain period of their careers. I would have to say:

Vadim Repin: For recording a great rendition of the Brahms concerto. The first and only violinist to make me "get" this work.
Kyung-Wah Chung: For an unsurpassable account of the Tchaikovsky, recorded at the age of 22.
Henryk Szeryng and Josef Suk: For their lovely accounts of various sonatas and other chamber works.
Itzhak Perlman: For the Bach, Beethoven and Brahms sonatas, and other miscellanea.

Other notables:

Schneiderhahn, Zehetmair, Kremer, Manze, Podger, Huggett, Oistrakh

Violinists I can do without:

Anne-Sophie Mutter


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## progabb

Agree!!!

And nowadays in the internet, you can find real outstanding artist...!

For example, I live in Mexico City, and there is a young kid rising in the classical scene called Alfredo Reyes Logounova... 
If you want to check him out....

www.alfredoreyeslogounova.com

I´ve seen him a couple of times, and really enjoy him!!! Maybe a future star???


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## Highwayman

PeterF said:


> I don't believe anyone included one of my favorites - Francescatti ?
> 
> My other favorites include:
> 
> Oistrakh
> Milstein
> Stern
> Szeryng
> Julia Fischer
> Grumiaux
> Schneiderhan
> Perlman


Your list is surprisingly close to my list. If Menuhin would change places with Fischer they would be identical.


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## Groooooove

If I had to pick one, I'd go with grumiaux. 

all the greats made a great sound, but his is something else. the type of sound he makes, and generally the audio recording techniques used to capture it, to me is second to none.


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## JakieBoyy21

I have 2 favourites currently. Pinchas Zukerman - I just love his technique. The wideness of his vibrato just impresses me so much. The other is Shlomo Mintz - he is at the top because tbe first time I heard him play (on YouTube), was him playing Paganini Caproce no. 5 and he just made it look so effortless


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