# Musical Monasticism



## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

While not being a Monk, I neither profess to talk on the religious aspects the title might relay nor interested, but I would like to differentiate a few psychological points which might function as advantages for those who listen to (classical) music on a daily basis. But first of all, I would like to express a few doubts about several presumptions, I think, many of you ladies and gentlemen insist to adopt and to raise a few questions, even though I'm not going to answer all of them: 

- Would you localize the term Music, or to accurate, the function of "Listening to Music" somewhere in a hypothetical spectrum of daily/weekly consumption?

- To elaborate the first question and specify an essential implication: Would you define yourself as someone who 'ought to' listen to music in order to function well/better in your actual life?

- Is (musical) abstinence for a specific period of time, in case you're not addicted, a feasible option?

Like many experiences, a break is essential and important in order to experience more effectively once again. Any pianist kid who tend to practice every day, with pleasure, would run like a lunatic zombie to the piano after not seeing it for, say, a month, and the experience would likely be more refreshing and therefore more effective. If someone is playing Golf couple of hours a day, every day, his experience would slowly erode/degenerate itself for converting that specific experience to a daily basis, and ultimately, he would find it boring and kitsch. However, it might be correct for emotional experiences, but for rational ones it's slightly incorrect; If I see someone's house is burning, I would never consider the experience of calling a fireman as boring, even if it happens hundreds of times, because I know, rationally, it's needed.

In some aspects, I think, it's actually the same with the experience of listening to music. The more you "consume" music, the more degeneration you "add" to your experience. Now, as said above, it's basically enabled for emotional music. Overplaying Brahms, Schubert, Chopin etc is dangerous, if you presume that the final step is turning them into complete and unlistenable kitsch. And as a matter of fact, it's reasonable to listen to a specific piece by Bach, Handel or Mozart thousands of times and still enjoy it. However, doesn't it lack anything from the first to the last listen? I doubt.

I, personally, for my own reasons, didn't listen to music for 3 weeks, and I have to say that the experience of listening to Scarlatti, Bach, Boccherini etc. afterwards was quite refreshing, at least more than before. I wouldn't compare myself to those who didn't do that, but I definitely think that the experience of a connoisseur who listen to music N hours a day is more degenerated than another connoisseur's experience of listening N hours a week.

Views?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I agree that musical overdose is possible, but there is also no need to strave. I think we all intuitively know when we are crossing the border that makes music part of "daily/weekly consumption". There is no general and universal way of peventing it and every person should spend some time thinking about this on their own. 

As for me, I have learned not to exaggerate with "grand" music. I never listen to two Mahler symphonies one after another. I never listen to Wagner opera if I can't make it a proper ritual in peace that will allow me to truely experience the work. 

I also make long breaks in listening to most sacred (to me) works. I can't imagine listening to Tristand und Isolde another time without really long break, otherwise it could lost it's refreshing breath and became too profane. 

So, summarizing, I listen to music almost every single day, but I think I found my way to keep things in proper places and I won't end listening to Mahler 2nd as a nice break between two episodes of Bould and Beautiful.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Yet, you seem to treat music in terms of consumption.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Boccherini said:


> Yet, you seem to treat music in terms of consumption.


Elaborate


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Elaborate





Aramis said:


> ... but there is also no need to strave. ...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but your answers for the first two questions I represented above are positive.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Boccherini said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but your answers for the first two questions I represented above are positive.


Perhaps we understand "consumption" diffrently. How I see musical "consumption" is treating listening to music as something that simply fills your day, like watching TV or knitting.

And by straving I mean keeping away from music while feeling inner need to listen. Consumption, as I see it, begins with surfeit.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Boccherini said:


> I, personally, for my own reasons, didn't listen to music for 3 weeks, and I have to say that the experience of listening to Scarlatti, Bach, Boccherini etc. afterwards was quite refreshing, at least more than before. I wouldn't compare myself to those who didn't do that, *but I definitely think that the experience of a connoisseur who listen to music N hours a day is more degenerated than another connoisseur's experience of listening N hours a week.*
> Views?


The paragraph I quoted is your summary. I would agree; it is no more different to the enjoyment of one's favourite meal after a three week avoidance (for whatever reason), and the immediate resumption of it has a heightened sense of satisfaction than if it were consumed routinely. While most of us here would not feel detrimentally starved of music if it was avoided (for whatever reason) for three weeks (like we would without food and water leading to fatality), I am willing to bet with near full confidence that the joy of listening to it upon resumption is almost as gratifying as listening to your favourite piece for the very first time.

Note: this kind of behaviour and the satisfaction attained have been explained rigorously by economists well over a hundread years ago based on the microeconomic concept of _utility_ (that's just an economic jargon for the sense of relative satisfaction as one substitutes for a particular item of consumption over another item). Those of us who studied it should see through it nicely visited here by member Boccherini's thread.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Perhaps we understand "consumption" diffrently. How I see musical "consumption" is treating listening to music as something that simply fills your day, like watching TV or knitting.
> 
> And by straving I mean keeping away from music while feeling inner need to listen. Consumption, as I see it, begins with surfeit.


Hmm. Well then, we don't seem to have something in common: You define "consumption" differently and I neither listen to music anytime I feel "inner need to" nor to fill my day/when I'm bored.
My definition of "consumption" comes from the assumption that listening to music is an extra bonus that everyone could live without. 
Would you die after avoid listening to music for a year?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Would you die after avoid listening to music for a year?


Yes, I would die, for this one year I would be like dead.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Yes, I would die, for this one year I would be like dead.


Cool


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

Boccherini said:


> - Would you localize the term Music, or to accurate, the function of "Listening to Music" somewhere in a hypothetical spectrum of daily/weekly consumption?
> 
> - To elaborate the first question and specify an essential implication: Would you define yourself as someone who 'ought to' listen to music in order to function well/better in your actual life?
> 
> - Is (musical) abstinence for a specific period of time, in case you're not addicted, a feasible option?


1. Well, there's listening and then there's _listening_. Often (though not always) with music I am less familiar with I tend to put on sometimes while doing other things (not something like reading, but perhaps basic menial tasks). But when I really listen to music (usually with some good headphones) I can only afford to do this a few times a week (I work in hospital with long and often odd hours). There usually isn't a day that goes by that I don't listen to at least a little music, even if only casually for 30 minutes. When I was younger, I used to listen much more constantly, but not as deeply.

2. Not "ought to" but "want to." I want to listen simply because its beautiful, but not for any other reason. I couldn't live without music, particularly classical music (I am always humming something at work). And so:

3. No, not an option. Besides, I abstain enough when I work several grueling 12 hour shifts in a row! 

When I was younger (I am now 40) I used to have much wider listening habits, listening to much more than just classical, but my interest in rock, jazz, electronica and other music has waned. I occasionally with get hit with a mood for jazz once a year or so. Most rock doesn't interest me much anymore (though I did see Mogwai in concert a few years back and it was an amazing experience).

I used to have music going on ALL the time. It surprises me now that even when I have a few days off, I don't play music as much as I once did-- and that's not just because of my job either-- I've seen this happening gradually over the past ten years of my life. I play music less often, but when I am able to really sit and listen, I listen more deeply. So there's been a shift from quantity to quality for me-- not a HUGE shift, but big enough that I nave noticed it occurring gradually over the past 15 years. I don't see this as a bad thing at all.

I could get burnt out easily on too much Bach or Beethoven or Debussy, but I also have wide enough of a collection to draw on of modern composers (who are also good in their own right) that I'm never just listening to one _kind _of classical music. So being able to jump from Bach to Ligeti to Beethoven to Reich to Debussy to Feldman helps break things up (and its also interesting hearing some common threads between them too). There's such a wide variety just within classical music to keep things fresh and interesting for me.

Still, I am surprised that emphasis in what I love most has shifted: when I was younger I often tended to prefer 20th century music, whereas now it is more tonal ("traditional") music that I tend to enjoy more deeply and attentively. I listen to more Bach rather than Stravinsky these days-- when I was younger it was the reverse. Of course, I'm still interested in discovering new music-- new to my own ears, I mean-- traditional or otherwise.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Although I am not fully understand the initial post (bad english proficiency here...), my comments:

In some extreme case, I can not NOT listening to music. Example, I feel my relax time not completed without a music, mostly a classical now (or extremely chamber music). My prime listening time is nap time (I worked at home now, freelancing) and evening bed time, this is the most quite moment in my home to meet the classical genre that required such environment. Previously when I was still commuting to work place, I can't stand the waiting time in MRT or Bus without a music, it is just too torturing to wait without a MP3 player.

I do feel work better with music in background.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I like music in the background too, I've lived with radio on in my house all my life.

But if I couldn't listen to classical music for a whole year, that's fine. The fact is, I have enough in my head I can't even avoid it in my dreams. I may become a rather nervous, haunted person without it, but I think I would still be fine. Then going back to it would be a thousand times better. 

I very much believe in music overexposure, I call that term "burning out" classical music. Unfortunately, I do it all the time, and I'm on the verge of ruining another wonderful composer at the moment because I just can't restrain myself, they're so freaking brilliant! I consume, discard, consume, discard, a terrible cycle I need to get out of. It's very painful to discover that a favorite work of yours is worn out for good.

I've done musical "fasts" once in a while, not completely abstaining from all music (I would practice my instrument), but I would avoid radio as much as possible, and _especially _not listen to the composer I have fear of burning out. I do it for a week, then go back, sometimes it works in reviving my enthusiasm, sometimes not.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

Sometimes I can listen to nothing but classical music for days and then suddenly rediscover the other half of my ipod, which is mainly singer/songwriters and indie. Then I will listen to that music for a period of time before I "go back" to classical again. But I could never go several days without listening to music at all, there's just no way.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I like music in the background too, I've lived with radio on in my house all my life.
> 
> But if I couldn't listen to classical music for a whole year, that's fine. The fact is, I have enough in my head I can't even avoid it in my dreams. *I may become a rather nervous, haunted person without it*, but I think I would still be fine. *Then going back to it would be a thousand times better*.
> 
> ...


You're talking like an addict 

Oh bother! Classical music wasn't created for useless background of non-periodic sound waves.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

@All of you: If you believe (more than believe, actually) that your experience of listening would be effectively glorified/ameliorated after a specific break, wouldn't you consider/try it?


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## Mozartgirl92 (Dec 13, 2009)

I have "burnt out" several composers several times and that´s one of my biggest annoyances with my habits.
Yet I keep returning to my "burnt out" composer like many other users on this forum.
I guess I´m not alone.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I often enough have music going through my head anyway, and sometimes, particularly when I'm in my composing mindset, I absolutely cannot listen to or play any music, simply because someone else's ego intrudes upon my own work. So yes, I can very easily function without the physical manifestation of music, but not so easily without music itself, because I've been listening to and playing it and composing it for such a significant portion of my life so seriously that I can't imagine being without in the first place.

As far as not experiencing the physical act of listening to or playing music, I've done that pretty recently, since I lately put my viola away for two weeks. And now that I'm practicing again, I can't get enough of it and I'm learning an entire Bach cello suite (the fifth) for no reason other than I feel like it, and it feels good to. And that is a wonderful feeling after two years of being in a school orchestra where I've hated half of the music openly and learned my solo stuff because I was told to for some stupid contest or another, and then leaving viola for two weeks.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Boccherini said:


> You're talking like an addict
> 
> Oh bother! Classical music wasn't created for useless background of non-periodic sound waves.


Haha! I know. But I could deal without listening for a while, because it's all in my head now (this may be how I burn out music so fast, I get it fixed in my head pretty quickly if I'm motivated). But I'm not exactly an addict, because music doesn't give _perfect _satisfaction to me (just close to it), and it's only after overexposure do my _senses _realize it, even though I knew it in the first place. It's just a strong passion for music now.

But I use classical music for many reasons, background music is one, enjoyment/analysis another, sometimes a blend.


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## Boccherini (Mar 29, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Haha! I know. But I could deal without listening for a while, because it's all in my head now (this may be how I burn out music so fast, I get it fixed in my head pretty quickly if I'm motivated). But I'm not exactly an addict, because music doesn't give _perfect _satisfaction to me (just close to it), and it's only after overexposure do my _senses _realize it, even though I knew it in the first place. It's just a strong passion for music now.
> 
> But I use classical music for many reasons, background music is one, enjoyment/analysis another, sometimes a blend.


Well, Mr. Bully Handel would have probably burned _you_ out for desecrating his turbid sweat and using it as a blender!


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