# Rank Sibelius's Symphonies



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I have listened to them all! Now I shall rank them from my favourite to least favourite (like in the Beethoven symphony thread)...

2
4
6
5
7
3
1

Hmm...I still love the ones I placed at the bottom...


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## Art Rock

I'm going through all 7 again for my blog. Will let you know in a week or so!


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## joen_cph

4
6
1
Kullervo
2
5
3
7 (I´ve always had difficulties appreciating the melodical material in this symphony, sorry. It has an abstract quality though, and I might change my view, if I give it yet another go).


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## ptr

Yea, difficult! Every time I listen to them I change foot at slightly.. But this morning, based on my aural memory..

4, 6, 2, 7, Kullervo, 5, 3, 1

/ptr


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## Bone

3
5
1
4
2
7
6

Depending on the day of the week, the top four are in a different order. 6 will remain my least favorite and 7 and 2 probably swap places at noon.


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## Guest

I couldn't possibly rank them, but I thought you might be interested in this:
View attachment 14421

It is a set of newly remastered recordings made in the 70's in the Soviet Union. I've been listening through and they sound great. I got them here:
http://radiomelasudas-beaumarchais.blogspot.com/2012/09/jean-sibelius-symphonies-gennady.html


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## Kivimees

Why can't you ask something easy, such as which is better, Sibelius or Bruckner?


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## Kivimees

Seriously, I don't think I could rank all seven individually. I would put 1, 2, and 4 on top, and perhaps 7 on the "bottom".


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## jani

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I have listened to them all! Now I shall rank them from my favourite to least favourite (like in the Beethoven symphony thread)...
> 
> 2
> 4
> 6
> 5
> 7
> 3
> 1
> 
> Hmm...I still love the ones I placed at the bottom...


Why third is so low?
It's my favorite!


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## Schubussy

6
2
1
7
5
3
4

Though this list could probably change drastically depending on what I'm listening to.


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## Weston

I can't rank all of them. I just don't remember them all, but I'll put No. 1 on top of what I do remember. The rhythm of the 2nd opening theme (after the clarinet theme) is astounding. Is it true he used language as a basis for his rhythmic motives?


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## Kevin Pearson

I love them all and in 20 plus years of listening to them I never tire of them. That to me shows true greatness. That said I will list them in the frequency that I play each one:

2
5
4
3
1
6
7

I listed two first but number 5 is gaining more all the time with me and might actually be surpassing two.

Kevin


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## KenOC

Much more entertaining to rank _my _symphonies -- all of 'em.


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## jani

KenOC said:


> Much more entertaining to rank _my _symphonies -- all of 'em.


When i was doing a part time job as a mover, once my partner was a violinist who studied at the Sibelius academy and he said that there is a professor in his school who has composed over 200 symphonies but they are very rarely performed anywhere, so i guess that it's impossible to rate them if we don't have recordings etc...


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## Ukko

I like to hear the Swan of Tuonela, to get my head in shape for the 2nd symphony. Then, after an hour-long intermission, the violin concerto. That makes for enough 'outback' Finland to do me for awhile. The other symphonies don't get much play, though I like all of them but #1.


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## jtbell

KenOC said:


> Much more entertaining to rank _my _symphonies -- all of 'em.


All 212 of 'em?


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## Kevin Pearson

jtbell said:


> All 212 of 'em?


I think last count was actually 261. That's even more 

Kevin


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## Avey

Quite surprised by the dull rankings of the 5th. The swan-call is my _go-to_ hum. And I can't be alone on that.

No. 5, 2, 7, 1, 3, 6, 4

Aside: I find 3, 6, and 4 to be rather lethargic and tedious. No. 4, in particular, pursues an exit, only to find another exit, which leads to another exit; Sibelius lingers in this anxious state (toward resolution) for far too long, drawing out an already uneventful work. The three works, in my mind, make him a rather inconsistent composer -- regarding his symphonic output at least. Because No. 5 and 2 are tremendous and inspiring works.


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## Cygnenoir

I must explore Jean more, I think. His music is so direct and communicative. I adore most of the symphonies, but i can't hide my deep love and enthusiasm for the 5th. It's so expressive, and like a hymn to the nature (and humankind). It feels like he is telling me the definate truth about the whole existance.

If I have to rank them it would be somehing like this, I guess:
5

4
2
3
1
6
7


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## neoshredder

Tough. I'll go with this. 
3
2
5
1
6
7
4


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## hreichgott

Avey, you're not alone. I adore the 5th. 
(I don't know the rest of the symphonies well enough to have an opinion so I won't rank them.)


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## KenOC

neoshredder said:


> Tough. I'll go with this.
> 3
> 2
> 5
> 1
> 6
> 7
> 4


You put #3 first? I can't do that. You know that nostalgic/heroic passage with horns near the end of the first movement? Sibelius STOLE that, lock stock and barrel, from Howard Shore's score to LOTR!


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## ProudSquire

For me, his first symphony will always be my favorite. :]
1
3
2
5
7
6
4

I just can't seem to wrap my head around number 4, yet, of course, I'll continue listening to to it until it clicks.


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## violadude

To me, the Sibelius symphonies are all on about the same level. It's so hard to rank them individually, so I'll try ranking them in tiers. 

First Tier: 4th, 5th and 7th
Second Tier: 2nd, 3rd and 6th
Third Tier: 1st

I like the 1st a little bit less than all the others, if only because he doesn't quite sound like Sibelius yet. Also, I love Tapiola! And rank it up with the first tier symphonies.


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## Tristan

5 is my favorite; 3 is in second, followed by 1 and 2. I'm unsure of where to place 4, 6, and 7, though. I do pretty much like them all, although the 5th stands out the most.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

The 4th is really something special. I haven't heard another piece by Sibelius like it yet. Does anyone know of any?


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## Arsakes

From most favorite to least favorite:
6 "I be a fanatic for it!", 2,5,3,1,7,4

and I like ALL'of'DEM!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Interesting to see what people think! On no. 4 again, it seems as if it's one of those things that you love or you hate. Apart from Bone who placed it right in the middle.


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## joen_cph

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The 4th is really something special. I haven't heard another piece by Sibelius like it yet. Does anyone know of any?


Some of its austerity can also be heard in "Tapiola" (the Karajan DG recording especially, whereas for instance Beecham takes it in a much lighter vein) - and to a lesser extent in the "Lemminkainen Suite" and the symphonic poems "The Bard", "Pohjola´s Daughter", "Night Ride and Sunrise", for instance.

Should you have the time, also check out works like Nørgaards 1st symphony, "Sinfonia Austera", as well as the symphonies of Eduard Tubin and the orchestral works of Jon Leifs. And afterwards Pettersson´s Symphonies 8 (Comissiona or Sanderling)-> 7 (Dorati)-> 6 (Kamu or maybe the new BIs-recoding which I haven´t heard; the CPO doesn´t really fly).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

joen_cph said:


> Some of its austerity can also be heard in "Tapiola" (the Karajan DG recording especially, whereas for instance Beecham takes it in a much lighter vein) - and to a lesser extent in the "Lemminkainen Suite" and the symphonic poems "The Bard", "Pohjola´s Daughter", "Night Ride and Sunrise", for instance.
> 
> Should you have the time, also check out works like Nørgaards 1st symphony, "Sinfonia Austera", as well as the symphonies of Eduard Tubin and the orchestral works of Jon Leifs. And afterwards Pettersson´s Symphonies 8 (Comissiona or Sanderling)-> 7 (Dorati)-> 6 (Kamu or maybe the new BIs-recoding which I haven´t heard; the CPO doesn´t really fly).


Thank you. 

I'm a fan of Nørgård's work, I'll check out the other composers you have listed.


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## Mahlerian

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The 4th is really something special. I haven't heard another piece by Sibelius like it yet. Does anyone know of any?


Have you heard the original version of the 5th? It has some of the same bitonal elements.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Mahlerian said:


> Have you heard the original version of the 5th? It has some of the same bitonal elements.


I've only heard one version by Vänskä and Lahti Symphony Orchestra on YouTube...I don't know which version it is...


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## Mahlerian

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I've only heard one version by Vänskä and Lahti Symphony Orchestra on YouTube...I don't know which version it is...


More likely than not, it's the revision (which is indeed better in a number of ways). The original is longer, in four movements, and the finale especially is more tumultuous.

I suppose I should respond to the question:

4
7
5
2
6
3
1


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Mahlerian said:


> 4
> 7
> 5
> 2
> 6
> 3
> 1


swap 5 and 2 and I'll take that.


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## Tapkaara

Impossible to do this, so I won't. It would be easier to rank Sibelius's symphonies against those of other composers.

Having said that, if I had to pick a favorite, it's probably the 5th, though the 7th is probably his greatest.


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## GraemeG

Impossible.
The best I can do is say that even after many years, 4 doesn't really speak to me.
1 & 2 are good works (2 is very good), but in retrospect they seem like warm ups.
I can't split 3,5,6,7, which are all uniquely different, and for me lift him into my rank of top symphonists.
GG


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## Bone

Tapkaara said:


> Impossible to do this, so I won't. It would be easier to rank Sibelius's symphonies against those of other composers.
> 
> Having said that, if I had to pick a favorite, it's probably the 5th, though the 7th is probably his greatest.


Sounds like a thread idea...


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## Novelette

At this very moment, there are 5 Sibelius-related threads on the first page of General Discussion threads.

Not too shabby. I guess I'm getting into his music at just the right time.


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## chalkpie

Right now it's:

4
6
7
5 (the early version is great too)
3
2
1


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## unpocoscherzando

6
3
7
5
4
1
2


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## StevenOBrien

6
2
7
5
4
1
3


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## Aecio

Starting with the favorite and going to the least

7
4
5
2
3
6
1


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## neoshredder

I think this thread proves how equal all of Sibelius's Symphonies are. Even more equal than Beethoven.


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## Xaltotun

Regarding similar music to the 4th: Sibelius once said that his friend and supporter, fellow composer Robert Kajanus could not understand a certain side of Sibelius' personality, examplified by the 4th symphony and "Nightride and Sunrise".


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## jtbell

Having just finished listening to Colin Davis's 1970s Boston cycle, my approximate ranking (high to low) is now 7, 6, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1. Ask me again in a few months after I've listened to other performances and I'll probably shuffle them a bit. Probably the first four would stay together in a different order, followed by 3, followed by 1 & 2 in either order.


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## starry

I agree with those who say the last 4 are the best, though the first 3 have good music too.


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## Trout

Your resident stats tracker is here to give you the overall ranking from all the lists submitted. 

From the most to least favorite:
Symphony No. 5 (4-0)
Symphony No. 2 (2-1)
Symphony No. 6 (4-1)
Symphony No. 4 (5-6)
Symphony No. 7 (2-3)
Symphony No. 3 (2-1)
Symphony No. 1 (1-7)

The (X-Y) means that the symphony was at the top of X people's rankings and the bottom of Y people's rankings.


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## PetrB

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> The 4th is really something special. I haven't heard another piece by Sibelius like it yet. Does anyone know of any?


It is a stand alone of his entire output, and, surprise, the only one that even interests me halfway....


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## joen_cph

PetrB said:


> It is a stand alone of his entire output, and, surprise, the only one that even interests me halfway....


Are there any composers with a basis in the 19th-century that you like at all? If not, Sibelius is rather innocent.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Got tired of only listening to no. 2.....

6
4
2
7
5
3
1


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## Svelte Silhouette

1,2,3,4,6,5 as that's the way they are on my shelf ;-)


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## Garlic

4, 7, 6, 5, 3, 1, 2

I thought Sibelius was boring until quite recently. Some of these I've only heard 2 or 3 times so the order could change a lot. The 2nd used to be my favourite but I'm sick of it now, maybe I'll like it more again in a couple of years.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

THE ORDER

7
6
5
4
3
2
1

and that is all :tiphat:


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## science

I wonder whether one's opinion on this would fluctuate with the recordings one heard. For example, I doubt Brahms 4 would be my second favorite Brahms symphony (after #1) if the Kleiber recording were the only one I'd heard. I sadly don't have enough experience with Sibelius to make the point with Sibelius yet! But maybe someday….


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## joen_cph

science said:


> *I wonder whether one's opinion on this would fluctuate with the recordings one heard*. For example, I doubt Brahms 4 would be my second favorite Brahms symphony (after #1) if the Kleiber recording were the only one I'd heard. I sadly don't have enough experience with Sibelius to make the point with Sibelius yet! But maybe someday….


Very often an important point in the possible appreciation of musical works. Recordings can change the impression of them enormously.


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## neoshredder

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> THE ORDER
> 
> 7
> 6
> 5
> 4
> 3
> 2
> 1
> 
> and that is all :tiphat:


3 
6
2
7 
4
1
5


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## Vesteralen

In all honesty, though I've heard them all, I haven't concentrated on them enough to distinguish.

For me, it's 2, 1, then 3-7 (these 5 all sound alike to me with my limited acquaintance - I don't think I could pick one out from the other)


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## dgee

5 is a colossus, 2 is nice, the rest have moments


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## TxllxT

5
4
1
3
2
6
7
Karajan being the best Sibelian ever. Nr.2 doesn't have the ominous jaws to tear me apart, but I've never heard Karajan doing nr.2.


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## joen_cph

(..................never mind)


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## Blake

TxllxT said:


> 5
> 4
> 1
> 3
> 2
> 6
> 7
> *Karajan* being the best Sibelian ever. Nr.2 doesn't have the ominous jaws to tear me apart, but I've never heard Karajan doing nr.2.


You mean Segerstam?


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## Skilmarilion

I feel that the 2nd is his most consistently enjoyable work, filled with fantastic music. The 6th may be not too far behind in this regard. The others have inspired moments yet meanderings at the same time, in my view. 

Plenty more listens are in order for sure. Right now I would say ...

2
3
1
6
5
4
7


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## GGluek

I'm honestly looking for help here. I "like" Sibelius, but don't listen often. Nos. 1,2, and 5 are on my iPod, but more often then not, when one comes around, I don't "feel" like it and fast forward to the next piece. Part of it is the organizing principle (s), which constantly eludes me. It's often like, you're dragging yourself across the Finnish arctic tundra, and then sometime towards the end you ascend a small rise and catch the sun rising over majestic mountains in the distance. It's effective, but doesn't seem to follow a plan that is clearly apprehensible. Maybe I'm being too stodgy.


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## Svelte Silhouette

4, 6. 1, 2, 3, 5 and 7



Svelte Silhouette said:


> 4, 6. 1, 2, 3, 5 and 7


I know I replied earlier and more flippantly but thyis is more considered



Vesuvius said:


> You mean Segerstam?


um, I like Rattle

Rattle in preference to Karajan I meant


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## Winterreisender

Sibelius 5 is one of my favourite symphonies ever... especially the Barbirolli recording.

After that, my ordering of the other changes. At the moment, I will say 5, 2, 1, 6, 7, 4, 3


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## Mahlerian

GGluek said:


> I'm honestly looking for help here. I "like" Sibelius, but don't listen often. Nos. 1,2, and 5 are on my iPod, but more often then not, when one comes around, I don't "feel" like it and fast forward to the next piece. Part of it is the organizing principle (s), which constantly eludes me. It's often like, you're dragging yourself across the Finnish arctic tundra, and then sometime towards the end you ascend a small rise and catch the sun rising over majestic mountains in the distance. It's effective, but doesn't seem to follow a plan that is clearly apprehensible. Maybe I'm being too stodgy.


I agree. Even looking at the score of one of his more characteristic works, say, Symphony 6, I find myself wondering why certain things happen when and where they do. His love of pedal points and monochrome orchestration don't help matters either...


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## LancsMan

Tough call but:-
4
7
6
5
2
3
1


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## julianoq

GGluek said:


> I'm honestly looking for help here. I "like" Sibelius, but don't listen often. Nos. 1,2, and 5 are on my iPod, but more often then not, when one comes around, I don't "feel" like it and fast forward to the next piece. Part of it is the organizing principle (s), which constantly eludes me. It's often like, you're dragging yourself across the Finnish arctic tundra, and then sometime towards the end you ascend a small rise and catch the sun rising over majestic mountains in the distance. It's effective, but doesn't seem to follow a plan that is clearly apprehensible. Maybe I'm being too stodgy.


Interesting, it happened to me in the beginning with Sibelius but one moment it "clicked" and I started to enjoy everything of each symphony. Actually, sometimes, the whole "dragging yourself across the Finnish arctic tundra" moments are the most enjoyable to me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Svelte Silhouette said:


> Rattle in preference to Karajan I meant


I was gonna say!


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## Blake

Svelte Silhouette said:


> um, I like Rattle


For sure. I like several of them. Vanska and Berglund as well.


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## julianoq

For conductors I am happy that there are many good with Sibelius. Neeme Jarvi, Vanska, Segerstam, Berglund, Barbirolli are my favorites.


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## Benny

5
1
2
The rest


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## Art Rock

Hors concours: None.
Essential: Symphonies 2,4,5.
Important: Symphonies 1,3,6,7
Good to have: None
Not required: None
Avoid: None

Amazingly close together. For instance, both Beethoven and Mahler would range from _Hors concours_ to _Not required_ to my taste.


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## Aramis

Art Rock said:


> Essential: Symphonies 2,4,5.
> Important: Symphonies 1,3,6,7
> Good to have: None


So you mean he wrote essential and important symphonies but none of them is good to have!

CURIOUS.....................................


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## Art Rock

I thought this was rather self-explanatory... the appreciation goes down with the ranking.


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## brianvds

Rank Sibelius symphonies? Well, I wouldn't say any of them are rank, though some are certainly better than others... 

I must confess that I only know number 2, so I can't really say much. I very much like the one I know, mind you.


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## Orfeo

Ahhh Sibelius, 
I'll start with Symphony no. II, then his
Fifth
Kullervo
Sixth (a breadth of fresh air)
First
Fourth
Seventh
Third


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## chalkpie

My list has changed over the past year or so. This year it's:

4
7
5
2
6
3
1


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## neoshredder

My order.
3
6
2
5
7
1
4


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## hpowders

#3, 6 and 7 are the choice of the litter, IMHO.

I would rank them as equally fine.


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## Dustin

1 (This is the only one I'm familiar with)


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## senza sordino

All are enjoyable
My order: 2, 5, 3, 7, 1, 6, 4


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

7
6
5
4
Kullervo
3
2
1


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## SilenceIsGolden

I love them all, but I have to admit to having a soft spot for the second. It's what turned me onto Sibelius after seeing it live in concert, and I still remember how that opening three note motif
spellbinded me on first hearing, or how the powerful build-up from the third movement to the fourth when the big tune rings out over the orchestra sent chills up my spine.


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## Richannes Wrahms

One of the best ways to get into Sibelius is to start from No.1 and then listen to the rest in order, so you can hear the evolution of his symphonic style, how its elements first presented themselves and were later developed and transformed.

My ranking: 7, 5, 4, 2, 6, 1, 3.

If you don't get the 4th or the 6th try this when you are in the mood and got time for it:


Richannes Wrahms said:


> *Sibelius "Macro-Symphony" (almost):*
> 
> 1st Movement (44 minutes):
> section 1 - 1st Symphony Mov. 1
> section 2 - 4th Symphony Mov. 1
> section 3 - 2nd Symphony Mov. 1
> section 4 - 5th Symphony Mov. 1
> 
> 2nd Movement (24 minutes):
> section 1 - 6th Symphony Mov. 1
> section 2 - 4th Symphony Mov. 3
> section 3 - 6th Symphony Mov. 3
> 
> 3rd Movement (35 minutes):
> section 1 - 5th Symphony Mov. 3
> section 2 - 7th Symphony.
> 
> All sections within a movement are played attacca.
> 
> Approximate duration : 1h 43min :tiphat:
> (about as long as Mahler's Symphony No.3 when it is played at a slow tempo)


_P.S. I'll probably expand this post later_


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## neoshredder

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> 7
> 6
> 5
> 4
> Kullervo
> 3
> 2
> 1


You used to love that second symphony. Now it's almost last place? lol


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

neoshredder said:


> You used to love that second symphony. Now it's almost last place? lol


Good for beginners 
I still love it though.


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## hpowders

Over-played, perhaps.


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## julianoq

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Good for beginners
> I still love it though.


I agree!

Also my ranking at this moment descending:

7,6,5,4,3,2,1

I actually love them all. If I have to remove one it would be the No.1, if I have to remove two I would be really, really mad!


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## Vasks

*5
7
2
6
4
1
3*

The top 3 will never change


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## Woodduck

Sibelius symphonies are such individual things, structurally and emotionally, that I resist ranking them. Each of them offers me a different journey and I must travel every one. But, just flying by the seat of my lederhosen, I'll list them in this order, and at the risk of appearing quaint will append some personal impressions:

7 (endurance and transcendence of tragedy, looking down from the summit)
5 (tremendous forces of nature, at once crushing me and raising me up)
6 (the purity of life in nature, the serene melancholy of fond remembrance)
4 (terrors of the forest, black hole of the mind, the edge of the known world)
3 (sallying forth in sunshine, listening to the night, new day, homecoming)
1 (brooding northern lands, autumn)
2 (saga of heroes) (#2 would rank higher if its second half were as good as its first half.)


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## joen_cph

Nice & inspiring post, _Woodduck_.


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## Polyphemus

2
1
5
4
3
7
6
and Kullervo of course if its allowed.


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## Muse Wanderer

for now it's:

4 - astonishing in every way .... my thoughts about this posted here:http://www.talkclassical.com/1005-current-listening-post646898.html#post646898

3 - so upbeat, with a moving slow movement and energetic finale. Hearing it live was an exquisite experience
2 - poetic and patriotic... energised a whole country at its time
1 - melodic in every way

I can't fathom what the next three will feel like. Planning my listening session for the 5th soon with excitement and trepidation.


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## Skilmarilion

So a while ago I got lured into the ever futile exercise that is ranking these works, even though I knew I hadn't got to know each symphony as well as I desired.

Back then I put the 7th at the bottom, and I guess both _naiveté_ and perhaps even _stupidity_ gained fresh meaning.

Now that (I hope) those two terms apply to myself just a little bit less, the 7th is one of my absolute favourite symphonies -- it is an extraordinary work. The richness of the thematic material is beyond words, and it just feels like there is a passage of profound beauty around every corner ... but the beauty is different each time. Unsurprisingly, Sibelius keeps the music moving forward expertly, and I doubt that any other composer could have 'said' so much in a one-movement symphony.

Evidently some people might always wish there had been an 8th ... but maybe there was no need for it.


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## hpowders

I rank #7 as Secretary of Defense

I rank #2 as 4 Star General.

I rank #5 as 2 Star General.

I rank $4 as Sergeant Major.

I rank #3 as Sergeant.

I rank #6 as Private First Class.

I rank #1 as Buck Private.


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## EdwardBast

Need more characters.

4
7
3
6
5
2
1


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## composira

Not exact but close to this:
1) 4
2) 7
3) 6
4) 5
5) 2
6) 3
7) 1


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## BartokPizz

Skilmarilion said:


> Back then I put the 7th at the bottom, and I guess both _naiveté_ and perhaps even _stupidity_ gained fresh meaning.
> 
> Now that (I hope) those two terms apply to myself just a little bit less, the 7th is one of my absolute favourite symphonies -- it is an extraordinary work. The richness of the thematic material is beyond words, and it just feels like there is a passage of profound beauty around every corner ... but the beauty is different each time. Unsurprisingly, Sibelius keeps the music moving forward expertly, and I doubt that any other composer could have 'said' so much in a one-movement symphony.


Skilmarilion, I am a big fan of Sibelius's symphonies, yet the Seventh is the one I listen to and appreciate least. Can anybody help me out here? What am I missing? It always seems to me as if before it's really gone anywhere it is already over. I've started over from the beginning more often than I can say having been brought up short by the ending.

It is odd because the other Sibelius symphonies I love more or less equally, except 5 which is incomparable.


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## hpowders

The Seventh towers over all the others.

I also love the Third and the Sixth.

The rest of them you can have.


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