# Best windows program for classical compositions?



## BeethoFan

Hi all, 

I've developed a taste for classical music somewhat recently, and i was thinking of doing some compositions.

Is there a program somewhere that best simulates classical music instruments from all families (string, woodwind, brass, percussion, keyboard, everything)? Yes, i know software synthesis will never match up to the real thing, but still. I'm not looking for a software with hardware setup...strictly software, with a good interface to compose some stuff using any combination of instruments from any family i choose. It doesn't have to be freeware, something expensive that can do the job i want would also be considered.

What are your recommendations?


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## David58117

My set up is Cubase 5 (my DAW), and for VSTi's I use: 

Native Instruments Komple 5 Bundle (mainly Kontakt 3 & Akoustik Piano for classical),
MOTU Symphonic Instrument (showing it's age)
Reason

I've used Steinbergs "The Grand 2" some time ago, which I think is a significantly better piano than anything included in the other programs I use. However, that was a number of years ago, I've heard of some very nice (and HUGE (gigabyte wise)) programs that have come out since then, which I'm very eager to try. 

I put some links to some of my samples up in the "Better auditioning device..." thread. There's also some nice fruityloops samples. 

Do you have a DAW, midi device already?


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## BeethoFan

Thanks David, i'll check out your recommendations.


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## Weston

Here's a thread I started that has amazing sounding instruments. I doubt I'll ever really be serious enough at composing to justify the price however.

http://www.talkclassical.com/9410-better-auditioning-device-composers.html

I am fairly happy with FL Studio (between $200.0 to $300.00 USD) as I'm just trying to make electronic music anyway.


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## BeethoFan

So i got the FLStudio 9 demo version, and i'm checking out the orchestral/piano packs. I feel the string pack is a little lacking (probably a lot lacking), but the piano pack is decent. Nonetheless i will probably be looking for more/better samples. Can i grab VSTi's from other sources and make them usable through FLStudio, or am i stuck with what FLStudio gives?


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## Weston

It will handle any VSTi. I have an insane number, mostly freebies.


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## BeethoFan

I got the Absolute Piano Steinway VSTi, and it's very good. Only problem is the keyboard interface doesn't work too well, and is missing some notes (can't compose something exciting with mouse clicks...). Is there a good piano VSTi that has a configurable keyboard interface where i can map any notes i want?


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## David58117

Do you have a midi controller (keyboard connected to a PC)? If you want to record, you're also going to need a DAW, such as Cubase (what I use). OR you could go the Sibelius/Finale route, which will give you virtual sheet music where you input your notes on a staff via the mouse (or midi controller if you have one). Both ways will allow you to output your sounds to the piano VSTi.


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## BeethoFan

David, i think i finally might have found what i am looking for. Sibelius looks really great, i will most likely end up buying it after the demo runs out.

I don't think have a midi controller, unless a regular keyboard will do just fine from your comment? I believe the Absolute Piano Steinway is both a DAW and VSTi, unless i'm mistaken. It's a DAW in that you can click on the virtual pianos keys to produce certain notes, and it's a VSTi in the type/quality of notes it provides. I'm still not 100% on the whole DAW/VSTi thing, but from what i know so far i think what i said sounds right, correct me if i'm wrong. So you're saying i can link this thing to Sibelius and whatever piano key i click will show up as a note on the music sheet? That sounds very awesome.


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## David58117

First - a computer keyboard may work within some programs as a midi controller, but what i actually meant was something more like this:






It's basically a piano keyboard, but allows output (now usually through USB) to be sent to your computer - you just play the notes like you would on an acoustic piano, and they get sent to your DAW, where you can select what VSTi you want to play the sound.

VSTis = Virtual Studio Technology Instruments - these are just instruments (ie, a cello VSTi, a piano VSTi)/recording tools such as reverb and the like, you don't record in VSTis. You record in a DAW.

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation - this is where the notes from your midi controller get sent to and recorded. Since MIDI doesn't record sounds (just numbers), you're able to do precise editing within the DAW, and you're able to tell the DAW essentially "for this track (ie, piano), I want you to use this piano VSTi." Then you will hear that VSTi sound when you select that track and start playing your keyboard/recording.

The Absolute Piano program you have is just a VSTi. I think generally with Sibelius you would be on the sheet music screen, and input the notes on the staff, like you were writing sheet music. That's the way I use to work Finale. There's an option within the program settings to output tracks to whatever VSTi you have installed - you would tell Sibelius to play the Absolute Piano VSTi sound bank instead of the corny sounding general midi sound bank.

Edit - here's a DAW in action. The tracks he has at the beginning are the VSTi's - the great thing about midi is you can change what instrument plays what (ie, if you want a violin instead of a cello), you can change the dynamics pretty easily, whether the note sustains or not, etc etc.






Here's a guy playing a vsti:


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## Weston

And speaking of midi controllers, mine is about 5 years old and not a USB, but my newer computer's sound card does not have a midi connector. Is there such a thing as a midi to USB adapter? I don't want to ditch the keyboard. There's nothing otherwise wrong with it. (Not wishing to sidetrack the thread.)


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## David58117

Weston said:


> And speaking of midi controllers, mine is about 5 years old and not a USB, but my newer computer's sound card does not have a midi connector. Is there such a thing as a midi to USB adapter? I don't want to ditch the keyboard. There's nothing otherwise wrong with it. (Not wishing to sidetrack the thread.)


Actually yeah, I believe I've seen interfaces for it. You could also go the new sound card route, or try one of the midi-usb cables:

http://www.amazon.com/MIDI-Cable-Converter-Music-Keyboar/dp/B001LJUVO4

I've never used one, so I really don't know what the drivers for it would be like, or if it's just plug and play.


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## Weston

Well smack me silly! I'll order one right away. I've gone for several months without the keyboard.


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## BeethoFan

ok, on to the next phase...MIDI controller. I swung by Best Buy today for some new headphones and stumbled into the music section. There i saw various keyboards that were way too huge and way too pricey for me. Best thing i saw was this:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A3101145&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063

What i liked about this was the compactness, mainly. I can't comment on the price because i honestly don't know if there's something better for a cheaper price. I did want more keys to be able to cover more ground in one shot, though.

Anyways, does anyone know off hand (or where i can start looking for) something that has 52 flat keys, is thin and easy to store, and is of good quality? I'm also not looking for something with a crazy array of synthesizer options (this kept to an absolute minimum is what i'm looking for)...just something with a lot of keys that i can use with my VSTi.

Thanks for the help so far, guys.


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## David58117

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Keyboard-Controllers-Controllers.gc

This is probably what I would get if I was in the market for one again:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio...IDI-Keyboard-Controller-102931664-i1154547.gc


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## Weston

David58117 said:


> This is probably what I would get if I was in the market for one again:
> 
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio...IDI-Keyboard-Controller-102931664-i1154547.gc


That's a pretty good price. My Yamaha 61 key controller was about $300 USD.


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## BeethoFan

David58117 said:


> http://www.guitarcenter.com/Keyboard-Controllers-Controllers.gc
> 
> This is probably what I would get if I was in the market for one again:
> 
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio...IDI-Keyboard-Controller-102931664-i1154547.gc


Well, that certainly does looks appealing...except for these little nuggets i found on amazon.com reviews:

*************************************************************
10 of 68 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT, March 31, 2008
By S. McAndrews - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) 
This review is from: M-Audio Keystation 88ES Midi Controller (Electronics)
This came with a warning sticker stating that this product contains chemicals, including lead, which can lead to cancer and other diseases/defects. I personally find this sickening that Amazon would sell a product that requires such a warning. I am returning it immediately. The only reason I gave it even one star was because Amazon would not let me post this review without at least one. Please be careful!
Help other customers find the most helpful reviews 
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Comment Comments (12)

9 of 69 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars Customer advisory: Product contains lead and chemicals causing cancer and birth defects, May 10, 2007
By Donald Sosin "farmhouse41" (Lakeville, CT USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) 
This review is from: M-Audio Keystation 88ES Midi Controller (Electronics)
I just purchased a Keystation 88ES MIDI Controller and was shocked to see a warning in the manual that the product contains lead or other chemicals known to cause cancer and birth defects. I have never seen this in any electronic music gear I have purchased over the last 30 years. What is the story here? I am a teacher of songwriting and film music and had planned to use this equipment in classroom situations all over the country. I can't be exposing myself or my students to harmful chemicals. Health-wise, legal-wise, this is a no-brainer. How can they put something like this on the market? I'm speaking as someone who has bought a number of M-AUdio products in the past and hopes to in the future.

I'm returning this keyboard to the store I bought it from (web order), but wonder if there is a similar product that is free of these chemicals, (this is a silver-colored model, is that the problem?) but equally lightweight, which is the reason I bought it. I do a lot of gigs and find hauling 90 pounds of synthesizer around a big strain on my back and hips, and was really happy to find a 22-pound keyboard I could run through my laptop.

But not at the cost of health. Anyone who owns one of these, I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts...

*******************************

...just wow. Anyways, browsing through the catalog of full 88-key boards it looks like the cheapest ones (Yamaha, Roland) are in the $200-400 range. Maybe i can get my hands on a used one in good condition on eBay or something.


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