# What do you love about TC?



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm feeling the love folks, and this is a thread where we all get a chance to share why we come back here all the time. 

- I love how much knowledge our combined efforts possess.
- I love our willingness to critique each other openly and kindly.
- I love that we can have differences of opinion and still get along.

What about you?


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm feeling the love folks, and this is a thread where we all get a chance to share why we come back here all the time.
> 
> - I love how much knowledge our combined efforts possess.
> - I love our willingness to critique each other openly and kindly.
> ...


It's all you've said for me. My primary goal here is to learn, and I think that it's great to have people in this community who have experience and knowledge in music and are open to share their thoughts with us around here; I like to participate of games and projects aswell as a way of discovering new music and, why not, sharing my own experiences; and, considering that I know almost nobody personally who loves classical music like I do, I also find the idea of participating of TC very interesting in a perspective of social engagement.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

All of the above. Plus, I don't know anyone in Nashville that I can talk classical music with, so this is a great outlet.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Allerius said:


> It's all you've said for me. My primary goal here is to learn, and I think that it's great to have people in this community who have experience and knowledge in music and are open to share their thoughts with us around here; I like to participate of games and projects aswell as a way of discovering new music and, why not, sharing my own experiences; and, considering that I know almost nobody personally who loves classical music like I do, I also find the idea of participating of TC very interesting in a perspective of social engagement.


Definitely, it's a great way to socialize with like minds.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I would say the greatest positives are the collective knowledge - I can always find a good suggestion for listening; and just the feeling of camaraderie, people who all appreciate similar things.

Since I wasn't asked for negatives, I will not offer them


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

What I like most about TC are the variety of topics and frequency of postings.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I would say the greatest positives are the collective knowledge - I can always find a good suggestion for listening; and just the feeling of camaraderie, people who all appreciate similar things.
> 
> Since I wasn't asked for negatives, I will not offer them


I can't think of too many (-).


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Having a place to share wits about classical music.


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## robin4 (Jun 9, 2019)

it's interesting to see what others are listening to

also, interesting that the major works in classical music are recorded and issued over and over

e.g. another new recording of, say, Beethoven Symphony #9..........it's unlikely to be superior to multiple previous recordings


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Manxfeeder said:


> All of the above. Plus, I don't know anyone in [insert city here] that I can talk classical music with, so this is a great outlet.


Pretty much sums it up for me too. I'm a young guy and don't have a lot of friends in real life who are significantly older than me, and none who listen to classical. It's interesting gaining that perspective from some of the older cats here who have been listening to classical music for decades. Some of you have seen live or met some seriously legendary conductors, musicians, composers etc and I am seriously in awe of it. My understanding of classical music would be quite a bit more limited without some of that perspective, I think. I value everyone here who gives me the time of day and puts me onto music I may not have otherwise known.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

What does a drug addict love about their drugs?


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

Fritz Kobus said:


> What does a drug addict love about their drugs?


oblivion.......


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Manxfeeder said:


> All of the above. Plus, I don't know anyone in Nashville that I can talk classical music with, so this is a great outlet.


I will echo @Manxfeeder's sentiments. I don't know anyone at school or in my community that I can converse with about classical music.

I have @eljr to thank for directing me to Talk Classical. We meet each other online at an audio forum and quickly realized we were the only ones there who were listening to classical music on a regular basis. I have @Pugg to thank for turning me on to Jonas Kaufmann, @Vronsky to thank for turning me on to a great movie, and all those who post in the "Current Listening" thread where I've seen music unknown to me which I can research to find if I might like it. And this has gotten me a lot of great new music which I was unfamiliar with before.

I love being able to post at TC to let others know what I am listening to. It has only happened a few times, but I've actually turned a few people on to music which they were not familiar with. Being able to share a passion with others is kind of a social need. I'm grateful this site is here.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Joe B said:


> I will echo @Manxfeeder's sentiments. I don't know anyone at school or in my community that I can converse with about classical music.
> 
> I have @eljr to thank for directing me to Talk Classical. We meet each other online at an audio forum and quickly realized we were the only ones there who were listening to classical music on a regular basis. I have @Pugg to thank for turning me on to Jonas Kaufmann, @Vronsky to thank for turning me on to a great movie, and all those who post in the "Current Listening" thread where I've seen music unknown to me which I can research to find if I might like it. And this has gotten me a lot of great new music which I was unfamiliar with before.
> 
> I love being able to post at TC to let others know what I am listening to. It has only happened a few times, but I've actually turned a few people on to music which they were not familiar with. Being able to share a passion with others is kind of a social need. I'm grateful this site is here.


Speaking of, what happened to @Pugg?


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I enjoy sharing my love of classical music with (mostly) like-minded individuals. Like many here I don't have anyone in my circle of friends who enjoys classical music as much as I do. I've also learned a lot about composers and performers from (mostly) knowledgable posters, especially about Mahler. And like Joe B mentioned, it's nice when someone listens to a recording I recommended and enjoys it too.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

D Smith said:


> I enjoy sharing my love of classical music with (mostly) like-minded individuals. Like many here I don't have anyone in my circle of friends who enjoys classical music as much as I do. I've also learned a lot about composers and performers from (mostly) knowledgable posters, especially about Mahler. And like Joe B mentioned, it's nice when someone listens to a recording I recommended and enjoys it too.


Ya, I'm more of a learner than a sharer around here as well, nothing wrong with that! There will be new folks to bestow your gained knowledge upon and the circle continues.


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Speaking of, what happened to @Pugg?


He left for a reason


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2019)

I visit this board because in my real life I don't really have anyone with whom I could discuss classical music in any depth. I've been participating in classical music boards on-and-off since ClassicalInsites, in 1997. TC is an outlet where I can share my impressions, discover other peoples reaction to music and find out about new music and performers. I like the fact that this site has a high level of traffic and a large cohort of participants. I also appreciate the fact that uncivil behavior is not tolerated here. I recently participated at another site where personal ridicule and abuse is much more the norm and although I do not consider myself too thin skinned, I don't enjoy that sort of interaction.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Speaking of, what happened to @Pugg?


I miss Pugg. Really loved his enthusiasm for Renee Fleming.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Baron Scarpia said:


> I visit this board because in my real life I don't really have anyone with whom I could discuss classical music in any depth. I've been participating in classical music boards on-and-off since ClassicalInsites, in 1997. TC is an outlet where I can share my impressions, discover other peoples reaction to music and find out about new music and performers. I like the fact that this site has a high level of traffic and a large cohort of participants. I also appreciate the fact that uncivil behavior is not tolerated here. I recently participated at another site where personal ridicule and abuse is much more the norm and although I do not consider myself too thin skinned, I don't enjoy that sort of interaction.


Agreed, right on.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I miss Pugg. Really loved his enthusiasm for Renee Fleming.


Pugg and Bettina were two ppl that really made me feel welcome here when I first started coming. They also were great about giving pointers on my own music in the Today's Composers section.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2019)

I guess I'm not experienced enough here to know what a Pugg is. 

One downside I guess is it can be off-putting if one of your posts is binned for breaking the rules, but it is a reasonable price to pay for having discussions that don't get derailed by bad behavior.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Nice question. It is a good site - alive and varied. I'm not sure I need to discuss classical music and find it hard to do so sometimes. But trying can be fun, especially when people get what I'm saying. Best of all is learning more about music that I didn't know and my musical horizons have broadened a lot since I joined. Also, getting pointers to great recordings and performers. I am not sure I can think of any way the site could be better.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

What!? This is a classical music website?

I was wondering why all my favorite porn pics disappeared!

My physician is wrong. I'm in a much later than Stage 3 Dementia.

By the way, I _do_ enjoy the humor of this place. Sometimes.

Keep up the good work. I have to go and try to find my old favorite website. I wonder how in the 'ell this happened. How long has this been going on...? Classical music? No kidding? ….


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> Pretty much sums it up for me too. I'm a young guy and don't have a lot of friends in real life who are significantly older than me, and none who listen to classical. It's interesting gaining that perspective from some of the older cats here who have been listening to classical music for decades. Some of you have seen live or met some seriously legendary conductors, musicians, composers etc and I am seriously in awe of it. My understanding of classical music would be quite a bit more limited without some of that perspective, I think. I value everyone here who gives me the time of day and puts me onto music I may not have otherwise known.


I'll come at things from a slightly reversed position 'flamenco' - I get a lift from the enthusiasm of people discovering things I know well which in turn gets me to look back and rediscover things that have remained on my shelves sometimes for years.

Other posters have eloquently covered the multitude of reasons for hanging around reading and occasionally adding my tuppence worth on the site. 
Long may TC continue to grow and be strong!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Education. You never stop learning. There's a lot of knowledge on here and lots of good humour.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Baron Scarpia said:


> I guess I'm not experienced enough here to know what a Pugg is.


You can go into the member list and pull up Pugg's posts. I think he left about 1.5 years ago. But all the old posts are there.


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## Swosh (Feb 25, 2018)

It's a shame so few people respond on Today's Composers


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Swosh said:


> It's a shame so few people respond on Today's Composers


I know! So true. We should brainstorm how to bring more attention there.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The only downside is something TC (or any forum) can do nothing about, and that's when certain posters who I have enjoyed engaging with abruptly disappear - I can think of about half a dozen members who I wish were still here. I suppose it cuts both ways - I can also think of a few who have gone who I wouldn't want to see back again.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

What do I love about TC?

one word

disagreement


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

stomanek said:


> What do I love about TC?
> 
> one word
> 
> disagreement


I agree..........


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Malx said:


> I agree..........


Well I Don't!...........


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

lol :lol: lol :lol: lol


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Merl said:


> Well I Don't!...........


I feel quite neutral on the topic, really!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I feel quite neutral on the topic, really!


If theres one thing TCers can't stand its someone who sits on the fence. Grow a pair, Captain!


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

I like the freedom of being able to put forth ideas and start new threads. The variety of background and levels of knowledge is good. You get an idea of what matters to others.

When I have nothing to write except the impulse to do so, I can post nothing or post in Ideas for Stupid Threads! Same difference.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Fritz Kobus said:


> What does a drug addict love about their drugs?


Which drug is TalkClassical like? Maybe you're referring to the people who go gonzo and choose to chew over the moldy bones of contention in music (which will never be edible), find themselves with carpal tunnel syndrome the next morning, and receive a notice from the mods by the end of the day. But they're a small minority IMO.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Bashing other people’s favorite works and composers.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

stomanek said:


> What do I love about TC?
> 
> one word
> 
> disagreement


Yes 
w/o arguments, how are we to ,,well lets say<healthy discussions,,which may at times end in <<harsh dissonances>>>

We are all after deeper, higher, broader understandings in this great art. 
some of us bring in ideas from this angle , others from this direction, ,,,in the end we are all abit wiser, and keener on this vast broad art.

If we all agreed, how we would advance towards new experiences?
Not possible. 
Its our differences which make TC a great place to discuss great art.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I love that I get to occasionally bloviate and to ride some of my hobbyhorses!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Baron Scarpia said:


> I guess I'm not experienced enough here to know what a Pugg is.
> 
> One downside I guess is it can be off-putting if one of your posts is binned for breaking the rules, but it is a reasonable price to pay for having discussions that don't get derailed by bad behavior.


I'm confused. I always thought he used a different handle.

What I like about TC is talking about music, movies, and sticky topics like global warming (case for nonhuman causes vs risk), abortion and religion. Oh, and sharing photos of places.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Getting a collective picture on the music world, sharing music with people who like it, people who make it, and sharing what else we think about when it's not music....exercising perspective to discover how it limits or enhances our knowledge or appreciation..,

In other words, just another troll who logs onto forums to shirk responsibility.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I miss Pugg. Really loved his enthusiasm for Renee Fleming.


People seem to just vanish

what happened to Genoveva?

A regular poster for years and then just nothing for the last 2 years.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I miss Pugg. Really loved his enthusiasm for Renee Fleming.


My impression is that he has continued to be around and still is.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

That everyone here is passionate about classical music. Everything valuable about this site flows from that.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I feel a group hug coming on. This is the most emotional I've been since I found out that my new car had a USB port.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Well, the positive thing is that there is a lot of knowledge here about all sorts of music, you won't find anywhere else. On most topics there is a variety of opinions, which you will not find in any 'real life musical friendship'.

To get there, you will have to accept an occasional bear on the way. But I learned that there are only a few of them around here and they are mostly 'riding the same war horses'. 

Overall, this is a very nice, friendly and sharing community. Joining you guys, has enriched my musical life and has emptied my wallet on the increased CD purchases.

I must admit I have thought to quit two times, but realized it wasn't worth it. The ignore button showed its use


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

NLAdriaan said:


> I must admit I have thought to quit two times, but realized it wasn't worth it. The ignore button showed its use


Although I've never thought of quitting, I have been tempted to use the ignore button however, even after 6 years, I've still never used it (but I came pretty close to it a while back).


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Merl said:


> Although I've never thought of quitting, I have been tempted to use the ignore button however, even after 6 years, I've still never used it (but I came pretty close to it a while back).


whats the point in the ignore button

since you can un-ignore easily enough


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

What I like here is the great company of you guys. Music is also social relations, friendship etc. Here we have a super atmosphere, which, for me, is the best. To learn new things follows this aspect.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> My impression is that he has continued to be around and still is.


I doubt it. Pugg posted composer bithdays daily. That thread has about died.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> The only downside is something TC (or any forum) can do nothing about, and that's when certain posters who I have enjoyed engaging with abruptly disappear - I can think of about half a dozen members who I wish were still here. I suppose it cuts both ways - *I can also think of a few who have gone who I wouldn't want to see back again.*


What about those who _haven't gone_ but who you wish would never have come here in the first place!? Sure, I'm thinking of myself. I'm a complete narcissist. And paranoiac to boot! So, what is it you have against me? I mean, I'm even ignored in your post, if indeed I am the one who hasn't yet gone but whom you wish had never arrived in the first place.

Well … I'm going now.

I really am.

For now.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

SONNET CLV said:


> What about those who _haven't gone_ but who you wish would never have come here in the first place!? Sure, I'm thinking of myself. I'm a complete narcissist. And paranoiac to boot! So, what is it you have against me? I mean, I'm even ignored in your post, if indeed I am the one who hasn't yet gone but whom you wish had never arrived in the first place.
> 
> Well … I'm going now.
> 
> ...


Well, most of the ones who spring to mind were banned anyway! That just leaves two in particular, and I ain't saying who heh heh (but you are definitely NOT one of them).


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> I doubt it. Pugg posted composer bithdays daily. That thread has about died.


We can probably agree that discretion can be a good thing.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I've hung out on all kinds of internet forums over the years and TC is easily one of the most civil forums I know of.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

SONNET CLV said:


> What about those who _haven't gone_ but who you wish would never have come here in the first place!? Sure, I'm thinking of myself. I'm a complete narcissist. And paranoiac to boot! So, what is it you have against me? I mean, I'm even ignored in your post, if indeed I am the one who hasn't yet gone but whom you wish had never arrived in the first place.
> 
> Well … I'm going now.
> 
> ...


haha
well, its me that's most notorious on the get lost list.
the mods have all my posts under scrunity, before longing.

now sure what they expect to find,,,i am innocent of all changes


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

DeepR said:


> I've hung out on all kinds of internet forums over the years and TC is easily one of the most civil forums I know of.


remember the old site,,,man I got snides and barbs daily, 
wow, took some hits and am a survivor.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> The only downside is something TC (or any forum) can do nothing about, and that's when certain posters who I have enjoyed engaging with abruptly disappear - I can think of about half a dozen members who I wish were still here. I suppose it cuts both ways - I can also think of a few who have gone who I wouldn't want to see back again.


My dearest, the forums is like the real life: People are coming and going. I call this circles. What, after all, is remaining from them are some good moments (good posts) and all these things we learned from them. Personally I missed my friend* Enthusiast* from my beloved Current Listening thread. Also the* Mollie John* is missing heavily to me (from the same thread) The first (Enthusiast) was GREAT with the modern music, which for me is unknown or neglected. The second (Mollie John) extremely helpful with his / her collections. which for me are also something I'm not familiar with. And,* you*, my dearest, you are the BEST with the collective presentations! This is the TC for me. Friendship and information, in their purest form.


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## Cadenza (Sep 24, 2012)

I’m an infrequent poster but I’m here most days the last few months, and I’m always astounded by the depth of knowledge of the community and their love of the music. 
I also appreciate the civility and the warmth members exhibit for each other. 
But mostly, I come to be enchanted by Woodduck. (And a thousand others....)


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DeepR said:


> I've hung out on all kinds of internet forums over the years and TC is easily one of the most civil forums I know of.


Especially considering how active TC is!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I check in daily for any new off the wall threads from deprofundis.


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## samm (Jul 4, 2011)

starthrower said:


> I check in daily for any new off the wall threads from deprofundis.


Just deprofundis?


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm feeling the love folks, and this is a thread where we all get a chance to share why we come back here all the time.
> 
> - I love how much knowledge our combined efforts possess.
> - I love our willingness to critique each other openly and kindly.
> ...


Clearly you must be looking at a different TC than I am. :lol: Have you looked at the 'Why did Wagner a Have Such an Impact on the World' thread recently? Not much love on that one!!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Dimace said:


> My dearest, the forums is like the real life: People are coming and going. I call this circles. What, after all, is remaining from them are some good moments (good posts) and all these things we learned from them. Personally I missed my friend* Enthusiast* from my beloved Current Listening thread. Also the* Mollie John* is missing heavily to me (from the same thread) The first (Enthusiast) was GREAT with the modern music, which for me is unknown or neglected. The second (Mollie John) extremely helpful with his / her collections. which for me are also something I'm not familiar with. And,* you*, my dearest, you are the BEST with the collective presentations! This is the TC for me. Friendship and information, in their purest form.


Thank you, Dimace. I am present enough to click like for your post! I am not posting much at the moment - I'm not sure why but I got to feeling that much that I had been posting was not very useful to people. There is not much call for posts on very modern music here at the moment and my politically slanted views don't fit much with the current community either. But I do listen to a lot of more mainstream repertoire and do know quite a lot of recordings of that music (not as much as some here, though!). There are some posters who often have very different tastes to mine but who clearly know what they are talking about and are real enthusiasts (yourself included in this) which I always like. I'm less interested in negative views as I have enough of those myself!

I am mostly missing from the "what I'm listening to now" thread as it seems to involve quite a lot of time and may not reach all that many members. I'll probably return to it when I am looking for new ideas for what to listen to but have a long list of muusic and performances to explore at the moment.

I have seen Molly posting a little as well but don't know why she has cut back even more radically (perhaps) than I have.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

I love the fact that you can write secret messages without anyone being the wiser...

I call it "Magic Writing" - Pretty cool, eh?

- MacKenzie


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> Thank you, Dimace. I am present enough to click like for your post! I am not posting much at the moment - I'm not sure why but I got to feeling that much that I had been posting was not very useful to people. There is not much call for posts on very modern music here at the moment and my politically slanted views don't fit much with the current community either. But I do listen to a lot of more mainstream repertoire and do know quite a lot of recordings of that music (not as much as some here, though!). There are some posters who often have very different tastes to mine but who clearly know what they are talking about and are real enthusiasts (yourself included in this) which I always like. I'm less interested in negative views as I have enough of those myself!
> 
> I am mostly missing from the "what I'm listening to now" thread as it seems to involve quite a lot of time and may not reach all that many members. I'll probably return to it when I am looking for new ideas for what to listen to but have a long list of muusic and performances to explore at the moment.
> 
> I have seen Molly posting a little as well but don't know why she has cut back even more radically (perhaps) than I have.


I for one like to see postings on modern music. I don't know about the political views, or which way they are slanted.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm a relatively longtime lurker (probably start hanging around ca. 2012) but infrequent poster. Like others here, I come for the knowledge of others (how some of you have listened to 100+ recordings of a work and know the pros/cons of each always astounds me), new recommendations, and the community here. The fireworks and popcorn munching when heated arguments inevitably break out is another source of entertainment.

@Manxfeeder, my other home is Nashville so there are at least two of us nuts in town when I'm on that side of the water


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

samm said:


> Just deprofundis?


His make me laugh! They are good therapy. Other than that I pay attention to opinions on the best recordings of a work, or new music I can experience. I'm not that interested in composer personalities or their lives or political/philosophical views. And I don't have enough of a musical education to "understand" the music. I just enjoy listening to good music.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

———————————————-


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

deleted.....misunderstood a post above


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Mollie John said:


> I love the fact that you can write secret messages without anyone being the wiser...
> 
> I call it "Magic Writing" - Pretty cool, eh?
> 
> - MacKenzie


My computer (or maybe my internet connection) is given to very slow spells at the moment so at first I just saw it as a picture that was taking an age to load. Sorry to hear about your mum, by the way: a miserable situation, I know.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Baron Scarpia said:


> I for one like to see postings on modern music. I don't know about the political views, or which way they are slanted.


Modern music is such a huge subject (so many composers and so much music and so many views) that it isn't that easy to get meaningful conversations going without it taking over all my listening trying out all the different things mentioned. It may need a bigger group to get it going on a forum.

Politics is not important here but perhaps there was once more balance between those "concerned about social justice and those who are less so" (no matter how I wrote that it just sounded wrong so I hope no-one takes offense). It only occasionally matters in some threads but there are some aspects of all this which really matter to me. There are so many things happening in the world at the moment that make me deeply miserable!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> His make me laugh! They are good therapy. Other than that I pay attention to opinions on the best recordings of a work, or new music I can experience. I'm not that interested in composer personalities or their lives or political/philosophical views. And I don't have enough of a musical education to "understand" the music. I just enjoy listening to good music.


I really like deprofundis' enthusiasm for the music he pursues! He goes out for it, full bore!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I really like deprofundis' enthusiasm for the music he pursues! He goes out for it, full bore!


Yeah, there is a refreshing unassuming quality to his personality. A pureness of spirit. And an intelligence and intensity tempered by charm and good humor even when expressing frustration.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> My impression is that he has continued to be around and still is.


You are certainly right. And discretion may of course be a good thing.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> Thank you, Dimace. I am present enough to click like for your post! I am not posting much at the moment - I'm not sure why but I got to feeling that much that I had been posting *was not very useful to people.* There is not much call for posts on very modern music here at the moment and my politically slanted views don't fit much with the current community either. But I do listen to a lot of more mainstream repertoire and do know quite a lot of recordings of that music (not as much as some here, though!). There are some posters who often have very different tastes to mine but who clearly know what they are talking about and are real enthusiasts (yourself included in this) which I always like. I'm less interested in negative views as I have enough of those myself!
> 
> I am mostly missing from the "what I'm listening to now" thread as it seems to involve quite a lot of time and may not reach all that many members. I'll probably return to it when I am looking for new ideas for what to listen to but have a long list of muusic and performances to explore at the moment.
> 
> I have seen Molly posting a little as well but don't know why she has cut back even more radically (perhaps) than I have.


Please, allow me kindly to disagree with you. What is useful and what it isn't doesn't exist in music. EVERYTHING is useful. The modern music is a big piece in our delicious music pie. If it was to speak only for my Master, Beethoven, Wagner, Chopin and Co I had to remain to my German Forums, where I could analyze Böhms Ring for 1283XXXXXX time... or to write the whole day in my threads for Liszt and Thalberg… I call this monotony, my dearest. Please, change your mind!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Dimace said:


> Please, allow me kindly to disagree with you. What is useful and what it isn't doesn't exist in music. EVERYTHING is useful. The modern music is a big piece in our delicious music pie. If it was to speak only for my Master, Beethoven, Wagner, Chopin and Co I had to remain to my German Forums, where I could analyze Böhms Ring for 1283XXXXXX time... or to write the whole day in my threads for Liszt and Thalberg… I call this monotony, my dearest. Please, change your mind!


Thank you, Dimace. I do agree but perhaps it is a feature of that "what I'm listening to" thread that I am thinking of. It is such a busy thread that I think most people skate through it and don't notice all that much that is not already of their radar. I may be wrong. I think it may be that it is only when we post similar things again and again that things get through. You may think your Liszt posts are monotonous but they have played a big role in piquing my interest in a composer who I hadn't enjoyed before. I realise that this dated back to a long time ago when my listening was mostly orchestral and I still do not think very much of Liszt's orchestral music. I suspect more focused threads may be a better place for profiling and discussing music that interests me.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I like that there are always new discoveries to be made thanks to the many recommendations here.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2019)

premont said:


> You are certainly right. And discretion may of course be a good thing.


? Pugg's profile says no posts for more than a year.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

"though I've never thought of quitting, I have been tempted to use the ignore button however, even after 6 years, I've still never used it (but I came pretty close to it a while back)."

"though I've never thought of quitting, I have been tempted to use the ignore button however, even after 6 years, I've still never used it (but I came pretty close to it a while back)."

Use the ignore button if you really must. You're admitting defeat, especially if you reveal who you have on ignore or openly threaten someone with ignore. And you'll take away the context of some good posts from others. You'll miss those times when the person you detest gets bashed by others, which can be enjoyable to be an audience to but not involved in.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Baron Scarpia said:


> One downside I guess is it can be off-putting if one of your posts is binned for breaking the rules, but it is a reasonable price to pay for having discussions that don't get derailed by bad behavior.


From what little I have seen so far the rules seem inconsistently applied. Particularly over what is seen as political. Some very politically charged whole threads get left alone while other innocent posts with just a tinge of politics are removed.

One rule I have been tempted to break, but haven't, because it is a rule: Don't call attention to another poster's method of speaking. There's one poster at whom I want to shout "Are you for real?!", because I think he is either a troll or on drugs. Nearly all his posts are nonsequiturs with a haiku rhythm.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Baron Scarpia said:


> ? Pugg's profile says no posts for more than a year.


Yes, but Pugg has changed his user name and is still around, as joen-cph writes.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

premont said:


> Yes, but Pugg has changed his user name and is still around, as joen-cph writes.


I thought this Bull Sh^t ended months and months ago. Give it a rest!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I really like deprofundis' enthusiasm for the music he pursues! He goes out for it, *full bore*!


he is not a bore - not at all


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Open Book said:


> From what little I have seen so far the rules seem inconsistently applied. Particularly over what is seen as political. Some very politically charged whole threads get left alone while other innocent posts with just a tinge of politics are removed.
> 
> One rule I have been tempted to break, but haven't, because it is a rule: Don't call attention to another poster's method of speaking. There's one poster at whom I want to shout "Are you for real?!", because I think he is either a troll or on drugs. Nearly all his posts are nonsequiturs with a haiku rhythm.


yeah we know who you are talking about dont make it so obvious


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I dont know about you others but TC is the only forum I have stayed with for so long.

I dont comment on much on the net - politics, religeon, for sure - but I get bored posting my arguments for those subjects and I get just as bored following the comments of others.

I never get bored externalising my biases in music, never and what others have to say on music I like or dislike.

I get outraged now and again - which really makes TC worthwhile.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

DeepR said:


> I've hung out on all kinds of internet forums over the years and TC is easily one of the most civil forums I know of.


It is. TC is a much different forum now than it was 11 years ago. Back then there was a lot of arguing and it really wasn't enjoyable which is why I left. I don't know what they did to turn it around but I think it's excellent now. All of the knowledge and discovery that is to be gained by being a member here.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

stomanek said:


> yeah we know who you are talking about dont make it so obvious


Never mind.......................................................


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## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

I like that we're tight-knit. The forums are small enough that we could remember bits of info on other users we see, and it is good to have context about other people's experiences in discussions and debates. It's something that could be easily abused, of course, but it is nice to feel like TC is nuclear enough that you could have an identity here. It's also not hard to keep track of most of the activity that's going on at any one time. Bigger forums like Reddit are like the big city: great, but you need to escape to the quieter towns once in a while. TC is like one of those nice Goldilocks towns. It's 'just right' enough of the time.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

haydnguy said:


> It is. TC is a much different forum now than it was 11 years ago. Back then there was a lot of arguing and it really wasn't enjoyable which is why I left. *I don't know what they did to turn it around* but I think it's excellent now. All of the knowledge and discovery that is to be gained by being a member here.


COAG was banned - that's what happened.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2019)

stomanek said:


> COAG was banned - that's what happened.


There have been many others just as bad in different ways who finally got their come-uppance. I can only express surprise at how long some of them managed to spin things out here. They must had a very accomplished style in conning the system.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Partita said:


> There have been many others just as bad in different ways who finally got their come-uppance. I can only express surprise at how long some of them managed to spin things out here. They must had a very accomplished style in conning the system.


When I came here from Amazon TC gave me this name Luchesi. I looked it up and it's a somewhat interesting character from Edgar Allan Poe. They said I could change it at any time, but I haven't looked into that..

"Luchesi isn't really a character. He's more of a plot device. He helps drive the action. Luchesi is Fortunato's rival in wine tasting. Montresor doesn't really need to bring up Luchesi to lure Fortunato to his dire fate."

But soon I heard from posters who were upset that someone named Luchesi in here had been banned after causing quite an intense debate about who actually composed Mozart's masterpieces. Huh? Posthaste I looked up these posts so that I could see what I was up against. He apparently had enough appetite for tussling that he just couldn't be tolerated - so he was banned.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2019)

Luchesi said:


> When I came here from Amazon TC gave me this name Luchesi. I looked it up and it's a somewhat interesting character from Edgar Allan Poe. They said I could change it at any time, but I haven't looked into that..
> 
> "Luchesi isn't really a character. He's more of a plot device. He helps drive the action. Luchesi is Fortunato's rival in wine tasting. Montresor doesn't really need to bring up Luchesi to lure Fortunato to his dire fate."
> 
> But soon I heard from posters who were upset that someone named Luchesi in here had been banned after causing quite an intense debate about who actually composed Mozart's masterpieces. Huh? Posthaste I looked up these posts so that I could see what I was up against. He apparently had enough appetite for tussling that he just couldn't be tolerated - so he was banned.


How come TC gave you the name "Luchesi"? I didn't see an option to be given a name when I joined. Have things changed?

I think that the story you were given about a T-C member called "Luchesi" being banned after causing a debate about who actually composed Mozart's masterpieces is incorrect.

The person who was responsible for creating the "debates" was Robert Newman. In one of his many escapades at T-C he argued that a little known Italian composer called Andrea Luchesi was the real composer of several of works attributed to Mozart, including "Jupiter", Symphony No 41.

This man Andrea Luchesi was indeed a composer. He was the Kapellmeister at the Bonn chapel when LvB was a student there from 1781 to 1792.

Robert Newman was responsible for creating many threads alleging that both J Haydn and W A Mozart were "frauds" in that they were alleged to be a couple of incompetents who paid for work to be written by various non-accredited composers, with Luchesi being one of many such "feeds".

At T-C Newman created several threads about Mozart and Haydn in 2006-2007, before being finally banned. He had previously been active doing similar things on other music forums. After leaving T-C in 2007 he went on to various other music forums to continue his campaign.

His fame is legendery. He accounts for one of the most bizarre episodes in my entire involvement in classical music forums since about 2004. As a major diversion, there has never been anything like it in my experience. He caused mayhem wherever he went, and in at least one case his behaviour was so bad that it led to the closure of the forum.

He got a bruising here at T-C, especially from two members. Probably even worse was his time at the "other place", and then at another "other place", where there were much softer rules and people were much freer to say more or less what they liked. Insults were flying around like you've never seen.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Partita said:


> His fame is legendery. He accounts for one of the most bizarre episodes in my entire involvement in classical music forums since about 2004. As a major diversion, there has never been anything like it in my experience. He caused mayhem wherever he went, and in at least one case his behaviour was so bad that it led to the closure of the forum.


Interesting...I don't think I ever encountered Mr Newman on my odyssey thru the musical forums...I've seen other characters similarly disruptive, tho, and they caused all sorts of problems - there was Mr A., j powell [aka- "ansermetmaniac"], m. shaffer [aka M forever, Mischa]...all really abrasive and disruptive...
the rmcr [recorded music classical recordings] forum, for a long time, featured literally open warfare on a daily basis - powell and shaffer going at it constantly...that place is still pretty contentious....tho some pretty knowledgeable and interesting posters occasionally checked in - M Obert-Thorn, Henry Fogel, Don Tait, etc....


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Heck148 said:


> Interesting...I don't think I ever encountered Mr Newman on my odyssey thru the musical forums...I've seen other characters similarly disruptive, tho, and they caused all sorts of problems - there was Mr A., j powell [aka- "ansermetmaniac"], m. shaffer [aka M forever, Mischa]...all really abrasive and disruptive...
> the rmcr [recorded music classical recordings] forum, for a long time, featured literally open warfare on a daily basis - powell and shaffer going at it constantly...that place is still pretty contentious....tho some pretty knowledgeable and interesting posters occasionally checked in - M Obert-Thorn, Henry Fogel, Don Tait, etc....


Its odd

if a moon hoaxer turned up on a science forum nobody would bother but somehow Newman attracted some serious attention

I dont believe Luchesi (the TC poster) has anything to do with Newman since he would have blown his cover by now and continuing to post the kind of innocuous views that Luchesi does year after year to garner some trust before re-introducing the jesuit conspiracy is just an act of patience and stamina I think is beyond even the most extreme fanatic.

Newman lives and breathes by his conspiracy theory - was capable of writing thousands of words per post. Luchesi rarely writes more than a dozen lines.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2019)

Partita said:


> ...
> Robert Newman was responsible for creating many threads alleging that both J Haydn and W A Mozart were "frauds" in that they were alleged to be a couple of incompetents who paid for work to be written by various non-accredited composers, with Luchesi being one of many such "feeds".
> ...


I didn't encounter Newman here, but I did encounter and perhaps tussle with him on another forum (before or after his TC time, I don't know).

It turned out that Mozart wasn't his only conspiracy theory. He was a big advocate of the 9/11 conspiracy theory, that was somehow staged, etc. I think there were others. Bizarre.

I wonder what became of him?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Bulldogs & Puggs


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Baron Scarpia said:


> I didn't encounter Newman here, but I did encounter and perhaps tussle with him on another forum (before or after his TC time, I don't know).
> 
> It turned out that Mozart wasn't his only conspiracy theory. He was a big advocate of the 9/11 conspiracy theory, that was somehow staged, etc. I think there were others. Bizarre.
> 
> I wonder what became of him?


I heard he joined the cast of Seinfeld


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

TC is useful. I feel much more confident in my intelligence after reading posts by others here.

its been a Density 21.5 experience


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

I'd say its been like Themes and variations for me here on TC.
I noted one comment mentioning not long ago there were some rough necks, giving folks a hard time.
I recall a few of these types of ,,Bullies,,,over at annother CM chat forum I was once a member of yrs ago.
Seems I just missed all the ,,,action
I can assure you they would have torn into my ideas, like a Sushi chef chopping minced veggies,,,me being the veggies,,,well i waas more prepared for them this time,,,my linguistic , expressive skills have improved. 
Yet I always like to meet a challenge as a fair game of judo. 
I think music will bring us to ideas and opinions , which others may not either, understand our views
and/or understand, but not readily , nor willingly accept at such time


I know from past experiences, many of my views and tastes in music was colored by my neurosis which held me back from further explorations in the musical realms of creativity. 
In fact, its my new musical experiences which helped me to form new bridges to a new personality , a renewed purpose in life. 
And so all my posts reflect these visceral dimensions of my musical explorations. 
Its a realm of experience which shatters old crusty ideations and box like walls of opinions. 
Music has this power to transform us into what we ,,lets say music has sucha power as to break bonds of fate, so a path to true destiny can open before ones eyes. 
daily we see the world around us shattering and crumbling, lives aimlessly wandering the roads of desert and marshes. 
Yet our classical composers , through their great dedication, sacrifice, total commitment to this art, have allowed us to partke of this sacred bread of life, this choice wine of the vineyard. 
Whereas the many on the outside are like zombies wandering malnourished, thirsty , if not forlorn. 
Truly we have found springs of life giving waters. 

Together we make these transformations happen, in support of each others quest for great art. 

Special thanks shoutout to millionrainbows, for giving me back up support when i was cornered, and back at cliffs edge, in many of my conundrums when my rhetorical powers were all gone. 
I think he is the only one here who at least attempts to understand my positions and ideas. 
Some of which i am not sure of myself, until he explains what i am attempting to.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

paulbest said:


> I'd say its been like Themes and variations for me here on TC.
> I noted one comment mentioning not long ago there were some rough necks, giving folks a hard time.
> I recall a few of these types of ,,Bullies,,,over at annother CM chat forum I was once a member of yrs ago.
> Seems I just missed all the ,,,action
> ...


Yes, MR is a famous confrontationist.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 23, 2009 11:05:59 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
SHUT IT, Reichenbach.

here's another

Posted on Jun 22, 2011 7:37:03 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
'Indoctrinated'? What made us REALLY LOVE CM? What won us by our HEARTS? 
Cartoons!


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Luchesi said:


> Yes, MR is a famous confrontationist.
> 
> In reply to an earlier post on Oct 23, 2009 11:05:59 PM PDT
> millionrainbows says:
> ...


haha
I'm glad I'm on his ,,,good side,,,he sounds, like a meanie
you do know when he is saying such things, its more tongeincheek. like this

he is kind of like the board watchdog. all bark, no bite...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Partita said:


> ...I can only express surprise at how long some of them managed to spin things out here. They must had a very accomplished style in conning the system.


They used the tactics of politicians and lawyers. Back in the days of conservative dominance - prior to the modernists taking over - I made this thread:

Driving wedges, pseudo legalisms and small targets...

I'm afraid I've been too long around TC to have any kumbaya moments.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Sid James said:


> They used the tactics of politicians and lawyers. Back in the days of conservative dominance - prior to the modernists taking over - I made this thread:
> 
> Driving wedges, pseudo legalisms and small targets...
> 
> I'm afraid I've been too long around TC to have any kumbaya moments.


lol, what a great thread. 
I love it. You've blown my cover
I had no idea these types of eyes were cking my posts. 
Now i know i must be on my p's &q's. 
thanks for the heads up on the Crash Course 101, how to avoid being shunned, ignored, banned, censored, and other methods of exterminating the unwanted,,,roach

I am walking a tight rope as i type. temporary suspension really sucks,,as when you make a long post,,its possible the mods might strike it,,and at times might take a day to get the post active. but all in all my temp ban was justified and did me some good, had to time to readjust my radical and , aggressive views. 
I mean to say opinions are one thing, but a dictatorship like attitude , say as trump style,, ain't too welcome around these parts. 
We can all change. ,,,and sometimes the ice bucket dump on ones head, does the trick


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> TC is useful. I feel much more confident in my intelligence after reading posts by others here.
> 
> its been a Density 21.5 experience


may we have some of what Sid James has called 
*proof of evidence*

otherwise , we may feel you calling one of us 
a dunce,,or worse , a dullard (aka idiot)


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

paulbest said:


> may we have some of what Sid James has called
> *proof of evidence*
> 
> otherwise , we may feel you calling one of us
> a dunce,,or worse , a dullard (aka idiot)


Nah, its just a Platinum statement of platitudes


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

paulbest said:


> lol, what a great thread.
> I love it. You've blown my cover
> I had no idea these types of eyes were cking my posts.
> Now i know i must be on my p's &q's.
> ...


Years later I realise that there is a great deal of futility in challenging these behaviours online where they are basically normal.

From time to time I go back and read the worst dressing down I got during those years, just to remind myself how dysfunctional things can be online. I'm inferior to other listeners and the reason can be anything. Its like Alice in Wonderland meets 1984.

If you seriously want to study these tactics, they're all there in ancient threads. Loads of them. Goodness knows why a person would want to do it, let alone find the time, but anything is possible.


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## samm (Jul 4, 2011)

It's pretty laughable to see certain people passing judgement on those who have either been hounded out of here, or maybe banned. As if they were the sole reason for any discord or problems. I've seen several who have either left or been banned, but who contributed more of worth than the posse of mediocrities running them down.

And you know who the latter are because whenever the matter is mentioned they sashay up to tell everyone how bad those members were and how they brought everything down. The reason those people are so clued-up about this is because they were also involved and escaped the hatchet themselves by being devious and playing with words to make themselves appear innocent. It's no great surprise how that motley crew continues to ply its miserable stock-in-trade.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

Heck148 said:


> Interesting...I don't think I ever encountered Mr Newman on my odyssey thru the musical forums...I've seen other characters similarly disruptive, tho, and they caused all sorts of problems - there was Mr A., j powell [aka- "ansermetmaniac"], m. shaffer [aka *M forever*, Mischa]...all really abrasive and disruptive...
> the rmcr [recorded music classical recordings] forum, for a long time, featured literally open warfare on a daily basis - powell and shaffer going at it constantly...that place is still pretty contentious....tho some pretty knowledgeable and interesting posters occasionally checked in - M Obert-Thorn, Henry Fogel, Don Tait, etc....


From my experience, "_M forever_" (circa 2007), as referred to above, was probably the heavyweight champion insulter of them all. He could have probably floored Mohammed Ali in his prime with a single insulting "jab" in round 1 of any title fight. I'm pretty sure that M-F has changed his name several times since then and shown up elsewhere, including here within the last few years in a sanitised form (but now gone).

Robert Newman's style was nothing like that of _M forever_, or any of the other top league of insulters. Just the opposite. RN was generally very polite to all of his questioners. He wrote good English, with hardly any errors, and plenty of it. He always had an answer to anything put to him, no matter how absurd were his claims, or how aggrieved some of his questioners were (save in the end, see last para below).

He ran rings round the Mod systems of most places he visited partly because he was able to draw in crowds of people who were so fascinated with the audacity of his claims that they became virtually addicted to following them through and commenting on them. Most of his replies were fully within the Forums' rules, and in a very superficial way some of his claims they were not that ridiculous that they could be dismissed immediately. In some areas, he did offer "evidence" of his assertions, but they were always inconclusive and often highly circumstantial. In the case of "Jupiter", S 41, he placed much weight on watermarks on the paper used for the original scores.

With such operating cleverness, most of the Mods were left standing in a cloud of dust, utterly bewildered not knowing what to do to control it. I'm sure that many of the gawkers who flocked to the various threads would have been disappointed if RN had been shown the door too soon simply because of the lost amusement value he always provided. They would have been denied a bit a "fun". It shows that, while many people do not like outright fights and open hostility among members, they often seem fascinated by controversies even when one side is espousing a highly dubious position.

Faced with such dilemma, the mods were somewhat bewildered not knowing what to do for the best, By the time they had caught up with RN on one issue for promulgating ridiculous assertions about one aspect of Mozart, he had moved on to another, so he was always a moving target. It just shows how rigid adherence to enforcing any set of behaviour rules can sometimes be a complete let-down, and fail miserably to remove the real troublemakers who descend on places like this. The offenders merely work round the system and exploit any ambiguities etc.

With only one exception I can think of where RN was booted out of a music Forum quite quickly soon after presenting one of his loony theories, in the end the only way that RN was beaten was when he became so rattled by the unrelenting badgering by ordinary members that he eventually lost his cool in some way and breached the Forums' rules. It was rather like the way the FBI caught up with Al Capone: tax evasion! In RN's case this laborious process took many months, up to a year in some places, before he reached the end of his run.

A bizarre feature was that, in some instances, it tended to be those members who kept up the most persistent badgering of RN and his loony ideas who faced almost similar blame for causing disruptive behaviour on the Forum. This again shows that rigid application of Forum rules against perceived agitators doesn't always work to the best advantage, as such people can be wrongly penalised under certain occasions if the Mods are not sufficiently perceptive as to what's been going on under their noses.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

As a side remark, I seem to remember that on a website it was disclosed that the notorious RN had no really substantial musical education or background (= that website? I've only frequented this and that one). He was apparently honest enough not to repeat any fictive claims about it there.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Sid James said:


> Years later I realise that there is a great deal of futility in challenging these behaviours online where they are basically normal.
> 
> From time to time I go back and read the worst dressing down I got during those years, just to remind myself how dysfunctional things can be online. I'm inferior to other listeners and the reason can be anything. Its like Alice in Wonderland meets 1984.
> 
> If you seriously want to study these tactics, they're all there in ancient threads. Loads of them. Goodness knows why a person would want to do it, let alone find the time, but anything is possible.


ahh the stories you could tell. 
Would be great if you could post one of the most infamous fueds which took place either here, or on the *other* 2 chat forums, way back when...I am sure you have memories of these dinosaur -ic style wrestling matches, ,, the smack downs, where things got close to the real deal,,= people actually got wounded in their falls, , 
I recall a few times over at *the other site*,,where in one of my neurotic flareups,,i really got on the nerves of some of the members,,and could actually feel like they wanted to ounch my face through the computer screen. 
Sure I had it comming to me, a good sock-it-to-ya,,,, as i look back now,,i was a bit rough on the rhetorical posturing, so came across too much *in your face* with my factual opinions, stubborn as they are now, you should have read back then, 2003-2005.
A few of those wrestlers were big and bruley,,,they hada way with words that could break a back in their championship style wrestling. 
It is kind of fun to watch one of those brawls,,,especially when, one gets all tangled up in the ropes, and is being pounched on by the 2 or even 3 member *tag team*. :lol:
just brutal, real bloody,,,I really felt for the bloke,,,but he willingly jumped back into the ring,,when he should have licked his wounds and stayed out the free for all.

I know you and samm have witness many of these TRex meets Godzilla , *discussions*:lol:

I must admit,,w/o these championship style wrestling matches,,,things do get kind of boring around here...well, i guess its best to sip ice tea on a porch swing then to see punches thrown at the local pub. 

Man I know for sure, some of these championship wrestlers , now gone you say,,had they been around here,,I'd surely had been smacked down , more often, more forecful, than ever before. 
I just set myself up to get pounced on. 
*easy pickins* 
I do wish to shout out to the scholars and gentlemen here who have resisted , a smack down.
I think it was Millionraimnbows, who had my back and kept me out the ring and maybe took my place in the ring. 
I think its true as you and samm say, some of the roudies who are now gone, had some of the best spice in their posts nad made things more interesting. 
Yeah i am guilty of taking things to the edge, and hoping I do not get caught,,,which is why i do more tongeincheeck style tactics. 
If i see a opportunity set up,,i can't resist adding in my 2 cent bashing of a composer i think is wayyy over rated. 
But I've played all my Aces, I am on permanent probation, my free speech card has expired, breaking too many rules. 
The way i see it, if a certain composers music is bullet proof, it really should not matter what anyone says about the composer. I think for fans to throw a tantrum when their beloved is under scrutiny,,might unveil a sense of armor weak spots, , that is, a real existential inferiority of said composer. 
at least thats how i see things. 
when i note critics passing their assessments of Pettersson,,I am like,,*oh really,,,*At least now i know that person has a degree of deafness, they can not hear certain frequencies. 
Its like eyesight, one needs perfect 20/20 hearing to *get* Pettersson. 
Or else they have a certain 1 or 2 composers i am thinking of, swirling around in their heads.
=Their *soup pot is full*


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

*M Forever, the great championship smack downer*

I think I may have taken a smackdown from him, ,,,, as i was smackdown quite a bit over *there*, which is why i tip toe around here.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> As a side remark, I seem to remember that on a website it was disclosed that the notorious RN had no really substantial musical education or background (= that website? I've only frequented this and that one). He was apparently honest enough not to repeat any fictive claims about it there.


One of the techniques used by his critics to question his allegations was to ask why he had never published his views. His reply was always that a book was in preparation.

Another question was to request details of his formal music eduction as he had stated in one place that he was trained at the "Royal Music School" somewhere in London.

No such school exists. There is the "Royal Music College" but that's something else. Again, all that he ever provided by way of attempted answer was flannel. He never did account for his music qualifications. Instead, he typically responded by asking the questioner about their educational background.

That was his style throughout the long history of his claims. He made many allegations. These prompted questions from people who were far from being convinced. He typically made a superficial reply, and then asked people to prove that he was wrong.

This process soon created much discussion because there was a build up of claims, counter-claims, disputes over "evidence", across several threads on separate aspects. Hardly any other discussion took place. It was a recipe for chaos. That's why I said earlier there's never been anything else quite like it in my experience.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Partita said:


> From my experience, "_M forever_" (circa 2007), as referred to above, was probably the heavyweight champion insulter of them all. He could have probably floored Mohammed Ali in his prime with a single insulting "jab" in round 1 of any title fight. I'm pretty sure that M-F has changed his name several times since then and shown up elsewhere, including here within the last few years in a sanitised form (but now gone).
> 
> Robert Newman's style was nothing like that of _M forever_, or any of the other top league of insulters. Just the opposite. RN was generally very polite to all of his questioners. He wrote good English, with hardly any errors, and plenty of it. He always had an answer to anything put to him, no matter how absurd were his claims, or how aggrieved some of his questioners were (save in the end, see last para below).
> 
> ...


 lol,,,great post, so accurate, so perfectly framed to perfection. 
Wish I had this knack for putting things in sucha way. 
which i don't,,I am a rough neck,,and this crude manner of expression, gets me in trouble at times...but yeah, boxing matches can be fun to watch,,,
us humans we like the battle when there is blood, gore and guts are spilled...look at kick boxing matches, every seat in the house full., minor league,,where boxing matches, only the big guns fill the house seats. 
,,,don't you hate it when the guy is down,,another forum member, who was on the sidelines the whole time, steps into the ring, and gives the guy down, a good head kick with his foot...
you've seen this, you know what i am talking about. 
just low down.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

DeepR said:


> I've hung out on all kinds of internet forums over the years and TC is easily one of the most civil forums I know of.


Ha ha! At first glance, I thought you said "evil," not civil. :lol:


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

CONSPICUOUS BY THEIR ABSENCE: Woodduck and EdwardBast, because they're too smart for this "love" crap!


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

paulbest said:


> *M Forever, the great championship smack downer*
> 
> I think I may have taken a smackdown from him, ,,,, as i was smackdown quite a bit over *there*, which is why i tip toe around here.


I took a few hits from M-F over "there" but gave back as good as I got. Generally, the ones directed at me were not too bad. I must admit that I partly deserved them for making comments about him that were bound to antagonise him, given his manner. The few hits I suffered were not as bad as some folk took. His exchanges were most colourful with the "biggest fan of Beethoven on the internet" (self-proclaimed). I bookmarked a few of them (both sides) but won't show them here. They are quite amusing.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Partita said:


> From my experience, "_M forever_" (circa 2007), as referred to above, was probably the heavyweight champion insulter of them all. He could have probably floored Mohammed Ali in his prime with a single insulting "jab" in round 1 of any title fight. I'm pretty sure that M-F has changed his name several times since then and shown up elsewhere, including here within the last few years in a sanitised form (but now gone).
> 
> Robert Newman's style was nothing like that of _M forever_, or any of the other top league of insulters. Just the opposite. RN was generally very polite to all of his questioners. He wrote good English, with hardly any errors, and plenty of it. He always had an answer to anything put to him, no matter how absurd were his claims, or how aggrieved some of his questioners were (save in the end, see last para below).
> 
> ...


When I listened for the first time Schnittke's Concerto for Choir, I wrote in two German Forums where I participate that I'm sure that the composer had died, had traveled to another dimension or universe and there he learned the music of another civilization. After, of course, he resurrected… :lol: The same I have written before a month, here. The reason was, as I said, that I couldn't find a reasonable explanation how the composer had come to such glorious inspiration. Fot the Austrian also, I believe that it seems to me like two different personalities and composers. One, who lived before the late symphonies and klavier concertos and one who came to life after to compose them (and the Requiem...) I believe that all these are simple exaggerations they don't intent to harm the readers or the character of a forum. Sometimes, if you are unable to find scientific proofs, you are using your fantasy or crazy theories. This way, many times, you can express better your admiration for the composer and his works. This Herr seems to be very interesting asset for a forum wants to have interesting content and attract new users. (In Germany, the moment you are polite with the other users, you can write almost whatever you want. If these are bulls...s no one is reading you and this is the penalty.)


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

paulbest said:


> lol,,,great post, so accurate, so perfectly framed to perfection.
> Wish I had this knack for putting things in sucha way.
> which i don't,,I am a rough neck,,and this crude manner of expression, gets me in trouble at times...but yeah, *boxing matches* can be fun to watch,,,
> us humans we like the battle when there is blood, gore and guts are spilled...look at kick boxing matches, every seat in the house full., minor league,,where boxing matches, only the big guns fill the house seats.
> ...


What you say about some people liking to watch "boxing matches" summarises neatly one of the points I was endeavouring to make, although somewhat obliquely.

What I have written above was partly meant as a counter to the suggestions made in earlier posts that the thing they most like about T-C is that it's now such a pleasant, family-friendly place, with all the riff-raff that ever set foot in this place having been cleaned out.

Without disputing that really nasty squabbles among members are unwelcome, and it's good to see the back of the worst offenders, there some other considerations. Summarising, my main points are:

(i) some highly charged disputes can be quite entertaining, even when one side is talking virtual rubbish;

(ii) despite claims that they don't like hard-fought disputes, I doubt that this is born out by their actual behaviour in respect of observing exchanges in these occasional threads with some interest;

(iii) it often takes a long time to clear out trouble-makers, because they're often clever operators who are adept at exploiting the rules to their advantage;

(iv) sometimes the "good-guys" get tarnished with the same brush as those mainly guilty of causing the trouble in the first place. It is conceivable that some of the latter members have either been banned or "walked" off as a result of what they regard as unfair treatment.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

When you've worked with hosting or dealing with 'trouble-makers', you often find it - much - less 'entertaining'. 
But humour can of course be a means to endure it.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

Partita said:


> I took a few hits from M-F over "there" but gave back as good as I got. Generally, the ones directed at me were not too bad. I must admit that I partly deserved them for making comments about him that were bound to antagonise him, given his manner. The few hits I suffered were not as bad as some folk took. His exchanges were most colourful with the "biggest fan of Beethoven on the internet" (self-proclaimed). I bookmarked a few of them (both sides) but won't show them here. They are quite amusing.


Oh wow, did you say *biggest fan* of LvB. 
sheesh, I know he and i would have gotten dejected from the boxing ring , round 1, for low blows, use of illegal weapons, and other infractions of the rules of basic civility. 
as you know, i am the notorious defamer of the great composer. 
I boast i am #1 arch nemesis to the great composer. 
Surely he and i would have exchanged deadly blows, and messages from the mods would have been flaunted with no regrets of expulsion.


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes (Feb 24, 2019)

...Everything?
No, really; Classical music is pretty weak in Israel and is mostly attneded by elderly people (I'm 29), so I love chatting with people from Europe, where it's not only much popular (especially among younger people), but in which concert tickets are much cheaper; then again, alot of things didn't work out in Israel, so this isn't surprising or means anything about the music's quality.


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## paulbest (Apr 18, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> When you've worked with hosting or dealing with 'trouble-makers', you often find it - much - less 'entertaining'.
> But humour can of course be a means to endure it.


I like to sneak in snides under the cover of some humor, at least ridiculous idea, fore and aft the snide,,this way it seems so harmless.
Taht is I always start my rant in high praise of Beethoven, of how popular he has been for generation after generation , after generation, a true legend in classical arts, 
Then i slip in the questioning of why/how this can be so, and continue on. 
I mean if you look at the greek, hindu pantheon, all the gods altars eventually fall into decay and ,,,rot. 
Nothing lasts forever. 
Yet the rise of late modernism is just too slow, ,,train must be stuck somewhere in the hills. ,,,or is it other modern gods have surplanted the gods of music. 
I will faithfully tend to the gardens of the composers I love, even though not often visitors come around. 
The Beethoven garden i see is well maintained.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

paulbest said:


> I like to sneak in snides under the cover of some humor, at least ridiculous idea, fore and aft the snide,,this way it seems so harmless.
> Taht is I always start my rant in high praise of Beethoven, of how popular he has been for generation after generation , after generation, a true legend in classical arts,
> Then i slip in the questioning of why/how this can be so, and continue on.
> I mean if you look at the greek, hindu pantheon, all the gods altars eventually fall into decay and ,,,rot.
> ...


I don't know if it's true but I picked up a rumour that a "stage 2" ban for people who take the p..s out of Beethoven (i.e. for those who have previously been banned on first offence against the ToS) involves being slung in one of the worst hell-holes they can find vacant in the solitary confinement section of the catacombs of this place. There's nothing other than Symphony No 7 to listen to except scratchy 78's from the 1940's, on repeat cycle 24/7, on full volume. The last guy to go there was aged 22, but when he came out he looked liked he was about 90, with white hair, bent over, walking stick, dribbling all over the place.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

paulbest said:


> I like to sneak in snides under the cover of some humor, at least ridiculous idea, fore and aft the snide,,this way it seems so harmless.
> Taht is I always start my rant in high praise of Beethoven, of how popular he has been for generation after generation , after generation, a true legend in classical arts,
> Then i slip in the questioning of why/how this can be so, and continue on.
> I mean if you look at the greek, hindu pantheon, all the gods altars eventually fall into decay and ,,,rot.
> ...


I go online to learn. On TC there's so much to take in ruminate about and so I put up with the negatives. As you get older you have pains everywhere, you're tired all the time, but there are a few things that keep you going, family, learning, music, the latest findings in science, gardening, chess strategies..

I can't help but to have learned from your choice of modern favorites and your opinions about older music, and all the effort you've shared about them.

Did people learn from Robert Newman?

Do we really care who wrote the great masterpieces? We wouldn't know Mozart and Beethoven if we passed them on the street. For me, what matters is their great set of accomplishments. Not the individuals, not whether they were nice people or whether they would have been socially acceptable to us.

I think that when the moderators are heavy-handed - or it comes across to us that they feel they have a Mission, they could be losing more people than they think they're retaining, because no one wants to lose control, or feel that they're being treated unfairly. Can a poster's behavior be modified? really? Has it ever happened? How could we know?
If they close down a thread that I'm interested in and I was ready to post some more in that thread, I feel that I should leave TC, because the negative feelings and the stress and the waste of time are VERY unhealthy to think about.. This is a fairly new idea in nutrition circles and it's becoming more important.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Luchesi said:


> I go online to learn. On TC there's so much to take in ruminate about and so I put up with the negatives. As you get older you have pains everywhere, you're tired all the time, but there are a few things that keep you going, family, learning, music, the latest findings in science, gardening, chess strategies..
> 
> I can't help but to have learned from your choice of modern favorites and your opinions about older music, and all the effort you've shared about them.
> 
> ...


if we had just the music - but the pieces anonymous - no it wouldn't matter.

But since we do know who wrote the pieces - it matters very much indeed.

It would certainly be baffling if all the great works by Mozart were left to posterity without a name attached to them. I would probably be thinking the classical are was awash with talent. When in reality without Haydn and Mozart it would be the weakest musical era.

Once you get to know the circumstances of Mozart's life - and relate it to the music - you can never hear the music without thinking about its source and marvelling at the composer.

So yes - if Newman is right and Mozart is a talentless fraud - it matters very much.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have found TC to be probably the greatest resource for my love of classical music. I came here with a specific goal - to learn to like modern/contemporary classical music. So many TC members helped me in many distinct ways, and I will be forever grateful to the forum and those members who took the time to post their wisdom about, experiences related to, and joy gained from modern/contemporary classical music. 

Since joining, I have met online a wide range of people who are knowledgeable, funny (some hilarious), and kind. I have loved almost all my experiences here that do not involve moderating. Many new members have come and some have gone. I miss many who have left, but I also find great joy in the newer members. I never dreamed that I would stay as long as I have at TC and that I would continuously find so many interesting comments and so many enjoyable posts. 

If I wished to thank all the TC members who have aided in my quest to learn more about classical music or who have simply made me smile, it would be a very long list.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

This thread concerns what we, as members, like about TC. Lately there have been many posts focusing on negative issues or people. Maybe we could get back to focusing on positive aspects of the forum?


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2019)

Luchesi said:


> Did people learn from Robert Newman?
> 
> Do we really care who wrote the great masterpieces? We wouldn't know Mozart and Beethoven if we passed them on the street. For me, what matters is their great set of accomplishments. Not the individuals, not whether they were nice people or whether they would have been socially acceptable to us.


I followed a lot of R-N's progress as he moved from Forum to Forum. I happen to have been a member of the now defunct _MozartForum_ which I believe was his first target around 2005. He caused a great deal of angst there, especially as they weren't used to that kind of thing, and the moderator system was not that sophisticated. He finally was banned and then moved to a specialist Beethoven site, of which I also happened to be a member, and he caused further chaos there, ultimately being banned. And so it went on from one Forum to another, from which he received different reception and treatment, but ultimately banned from all.

At various times, he said that his main motive was to try to re-allocate the enormous credit that Mozart and Haydn have acquired which he believes was completely unjustified to their rightful owners. He mentioned several such other composers.

Of course, there's no truth in any of R-N's allegations, but speaking for myself I didn't find the whole experience to be entirely a waste of time. In some cases, especially on the _Mozartforum_ and the "other place", I recall carrying out a lot of online research into issues relating to his claims that I had no previous idea about. I found much of it be educational value as my understanding of Mozart's circle, and much else that was going on politically, religiously and culturally in in that era, to be much enhanced. I also delved quite a lot into the world of Beethoven, who also came under a certain amount of suspicion according to R-N, but much less than Mozart.

Whereas R-N had concluded that Mozart and Haydn were enormous frauds, it had the opposite effect on me in that my appreciation of the greatness of each was increased yet further. So, from my perspective I can say that I did learn some useful from that experience. That's mainly because I'm not just interested in their music, as it matters to me a lot who actually composed the music I like the most, and to understand as much as possible about the world in which they lived.



Luchesi said:


> I think that when the moderators are heavy-handed - or it comes across to us that they feel they have a Mission, they could be losing more people than they think they're retaining, because no one wants to lose control, or feel that they're being treated unfairly ...


As I mentioned previously, this is one implication of what is inevitably imperfect moderator intervention in music forums trying to deal in a timely manner with clever rogues of the R-N type, and others of a different variety pursuing different agenda.

Unless these characters are downright insulting in their comments, which is seldom the case, they can usually find ways to spin things out by various bluffing techniques so that their stay is much prolonged, possibly indefinitely. This amount of time and delay may be too long for some members to tolerate, so they pack their bags and off they go, sometimes never to be seen again.


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## samm (Jul 4, 2011)

There's enough material now to write his official biography.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

mmsbls said:


> This thread concerns what we, as members, like about TC. Lately there have been many posts focusing on negative issues or people. Maybe we could get back to focusing on positive aspects of the forum?


Making discoveries -- composers, works, recordings, or related matters -- through this forum is a positive aspect. It is energizing and may lead to new interests and passions, original ideas, connections with others.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

stomanek said:


> if we had just the music - but the pieces anonymous - no it wouldn't matter.
> 
> But since we do know who wrote the pieces - it matters very much indeed.
> 
> ...


"Once you get to know the circumstances of Mozart's life - and relate it to the music - you can never hear the music without thinking about its source and marvelling at the composer."

Thanks, I never really thought of it that way.

I think of the bio pics we have as a source of information, but I'm not thinking of them when the music's playing. I don't really trust them except in the broadest sense, where there's reliable evidence.

OK, I'll defend you. So, you're not saying that if Mozart was a jealous scoundrel, terribly critical of other struggling composers and more of a scatologist, spewing vulgarisms in polite conversation and a womanizer and the portrait of spoiled infantilism and a terrible son to his well-meaning father - that you would hypothetically love his music less. 
I mean, it goes both ways. Beethoven and Chopin were nasty. There's always Wagner, Debussy. Brahms was not always polite in public. I'll keep their music on a pedestal.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Luchesi said:


> "Once you get to know the circumstances of Mozart's life - and relate it to the music - you can never hear the music without thinking about its source and marvelling at the composer."
> 
> Thanks, I never really thought of it that way.
> 
> ...


I cant really confirm or deny a hypothesis like that. I dont know.

I enjoy great art despite knowing that certain artists had very poor characters, have done terrible things, crimes, mistreated women etc. Since its the art that interests me primarily. For example - having read some details of Somerset Maugham's life - I dont like him - but still rate his stories and love to read them.

What if Mozart was a child beater? I mean the other things you list may be signs of a slightly wayward personality but nothing evil.

I suppose I would wonder how someone who lacked empathy enough to inflict pain on a child - could have composed works that to me - overflow with empathy. It might well turn me away from the music if I thought a narcissistic sadist was behind it - no matter how brilliant. When I found out recently the dark secrets of Michael Jackson's past I vowed never to listen to his music again. So who knows.

As it happens - judging by the letters left behind by Mozart and the facts of his life - I have every reason to feel that the man was worthy of the music he created. The music emanated from an advanced consciousness and supreme intellect.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Partita said:


> I followed a lot of R-N's progress as he moved from Forum to Forum. I happen to have been a member of the now defunct _MozartForum_ which I believe was his first target around 2005. He caused a great deal of angst there, especially as they weren't used to that kind of thing, and the moderator system was not that sophisticated. He finally was banned and then moved to a specialist Beethoven site, of which I also happened to be a member, and he caused further chaos there, ultimately being banned. And so it went on from one Forum to another, from which he received different reception and treatment, but ultimately banned from all.
> 
> At various times, he said that his main motive was to try to re-allocate the enormous credit that Mozart and Haydn have acquired which he believes was completely unjustified to their rightful owners. He mentioned several such other composers.
> 
> ...


If I find a hypothesis too silly to give any time to I skip over it. It's the same with any other subject matter online. And like you - I did learn some new things about how authentication works.

As for people who might pack up their bags and leave because they come to a generalization about the forum, all I can say is, is that really an issue? I really don't know what to say about a person like that. What else are these people going to conclude about any forum? We've seen people like this, claiming to be victims. We can commiserate with them in person, but about online issues I don't have a lot of sympathy. It's fully their choice how they characterize.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

samm said:


> There's enough material now to write his official biography.


Or a Movie, anyone got the rights to "The life of a Banned Talk Classical Conspiracist- Newman, the Mozart Story"

I guess if you have you're not going to talk about it here................


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

stomanek said:


> I cant really confirm or deny a hypothesis like that. I dont know.
> 
> I enjoy great art despite knowing that certain artists had very poor characters, have done terrible things, crimes, mistreated women etc. Since its the art that interests me primarily. For example - having read some details of Somerset Maugham's life - I dont like him - but still rate his stories and love to read them.
> 
> ...


"The music emanated from an advanced consciousness and supreme intellect."

Yes, when we compare his works side-by-side with Salieri's cleverest works we find a universality which more completely speaks to us today. How could this be? Mozart used more emotive classical elements than Salieri did. (perhaps Antonio was embarrassed) And it certainly seems intentional because there are many many cases.

Of course there are large essays written about this..

It's just an amazing study as we dissect the pieces and compare the small devices of both composers of the same time and setting. At first glance it seems to be unconscious and serendipitous, but every mature work? Mozart was definitely a cut above, and all later composers recognized this (before the cultured public did, looking back at the time of the powdered wigs).


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## PeterFromLA (Jul 22, 2011)

Some of these posts seem a bit off topic. 

What do I like about TC? Being surrounded by folks who share your enthusiasm for CM, especially in its contemporary forms. CM listeners are a minority as it is; contemporary CM even more so! In that sense, TC is a balm easing the solitude that can sometimes accompany avid devotion to esoteric pursuits.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

millionrainbows said:


> CONSPICUOUS BY THEIR ABSENCE: Woodduck and EdwardBast, because they're too smart for this "love" crap!


:kiss: .....................


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