# Compositions for electric guitar



## Uberloinvongenchler

Dear all,

I am a student and composer and would like to gauge interest in compositions involving the electric guitar. For whatever reason, the instrument has not been very well embraced by many folk involved in the 'classical tradition'. As a guitarist myself who composes in notation using extended forms I am well aware that there are vast expressive capabilities latent in the instrument which have been underused in this context. I think this may simply be to do with the fact that the instrument is little understood and only a few people have received excellent schooling on it. Is anyone out there interested in changing this?

Let me know your thoughts!


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## emiellucifuge

Agree with much you say.

There is a certain prejudice due to the rather 'loud, or superficial manner in which the instrument has been used in the recent past.


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## Wicked_one

It's true what you've said there and I'm with you. People like, for example, Yngwie Malmsteen who wrote a suite for the electric guitar and orchestra surely showed us that this loud instrument works perfectly fine in an orchestra as a soloist.

He surely inspired some people out there, myself included. Maybe there will be more works for this lovely instrument aside from pop/rock/jazz or whatever. Sadly, I don't have too much free time to play and write down stuff I have in my head. I do write all kinda riffs and solos for my band, but to sit down and actually work on a piece of a larger scale, involving more than 5 people it seems to be too much for me at the moment.

Yes, the idea is there, I wanna write something for the electric guitar and orchestra and hopefully it will happen sometimes soon and show people that "hey, it can be quite a lovely experience".

What do you have in mind, Uberloinvongenchler?


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## the_emptier

I've been playing guitar for 7 years and I do everything from jazz to metal to classical and there's an endless world of possibilities with it.


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## Kopachris

Mostly, the reason for the electric guitar's lack of use in the modern classical (oxymoron?) tradition is the fact that 1) there's no standard notation that can accurately describe all of the guitar's expressive capabilities, and 2) the timbre generally doesn't blend well with a standard orchestra. Therefore, the electric guitar is usually only available to composers as a virtuoso instrument. Some instruments are like that. That's the nature of it. Perhaps some extremely talented composer will be able to make the guitar blend with the rest of the orchestra; I'd like to hear that when it happens. However, I think that the guitar will always be limited to virtuoso settings. Guitar suites and concertos are fine, but the guitar will likely never be a standard part of a symphony orchestra.


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## norman bates

Michael Daugherty has done something using electric guitar, i have not listened to it and if i had to judge from youtube clips, well, i'm a little baffled





i know that also Lukas foss did something with guitar, and i a different way there is Glenn Branca (and Rhys Chatham)





Anyway very interesting question.


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## chee_zee

I'm in this as well, a composer and guitarist. I've only been at it for 1.5 years, so if I were to write a virtuoso piece right this minute, I'd have to have someone else play it for me :/ All is well, no point in starting out composing grand symphonies and concertos if you can build up your orchestration and composing skills more efficiently by writing smaller pieces. once I am able to play whatever my mind thinks up, _that's_ when I'll be able to write the stuff of my 'dreams' so to speak.

Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in this. However, I felt like Yngwie's "suite" was less than good (plus he had an orchestrator). there was hardly ever more than one texture, it was shallow, meaningless virtuosity (I've heard it 3x and can't recall a single melody or note). I'd like to see the guitar done more justice than that, the piece itself needs to be good and more involved than the first violin sections playing the tonic and dominant while a guitar plays random box shape scales as fast as possible....should've took a note from Mozart's clarinet concerto, a solo piece doesn't have to be virtuosic to be good, a beautiful melody will suffice.


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## norman bates

chee_zee said:


> However, I felt like Yngwie's "suite" was less than good (plus he had an orchestrator). there was hardly ever more than one texture, it was shallow, meaningless virtuosity (I've heard it 3x and can't recall a single melody or note). I'd like to see the guitar done more justice than that, the piece itself needs to be good and more involved than the first violin sections playing the tonic and dominant while a guitar plays random box shape scales as fast as possible....should've took a note from Mozart's clarinet concerto, a solo piece doesn't have to be virtuosic to be good, a beautiful melody will suffice.


i agree, for me it's difficult to speak seriously about Malmsteen and classical music. Come on, even the sex pistols were better composers.


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## Wicked_one

True indeed. I was just offering an example of one musician (that I know of) who made a thing like that. Didn't say it was spectacular, didn't say I don't like it either. I'm in the middle. It has its good parts and it bad parts, of course.

Maybe the next one will be more fun and lovely.

Maybe the next one will be written by someone who knows what he's doing and it's not just arpeggios up and down or shredding all the way.


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## Uberloinvongenchler

Dear all,

Many thanks for all the input so far. I decided to leave it a while before I replied to let the ideas and people's experiences trickle in. I also wanted to make sure that the thread wasn't hijacked for some crass debate about which of the current virtuoso electric guitarists were more 'valid' than the other from the point of view of a classical context. 

"What do you have in mind?" was probably the most useful contribution for me as it really helps to narrow the focus of the discussion.

Essentially, I am quite open minded about the form and instrumentation of pieces written for the instrument (or at least including it). But I take the other contributor's point that there are good, fundamental reasons why it is not likely to be a substitute for a string section. Sustain is, under normal conditions, fairly poor for an electric guitar (and guitars in general), and similar to that of a piano in that the notes continually and unavoidably die as soon as they are created. The low mass of guitar strings exascerbates this problem greatly. As such, I think it partly lends itself to faster, more virtuosic parts where single-note melody lines are concerned.

As an important aside, I am very interested in the historical musicology concerning the development of genre and in particular in relation to the electric guitar. For various socio-political reasons the instrument was not initially well received, essentially it didn't arrive in the right place at the right time. Furthermore, I fully take the point that it has been used in a banal and stupid way. It is fascinating too that in spite of this very few people saw that this said more about the individuals bashing out 3 chord tricks at ear-bleeding-inducing volumes, rather than the instrument itself. 

However, there have been a small handful of exceptional individuals who have, as far as my evidence would suggest, seriously advanced instrumental and compositional technique for the instrument, and in some sense, irrespective of the instrument. Granted, this has been 'on their own terms' rather than within an established 'school' but it is non-the-less a valid contribution. In terms of instrumentation and genre, the ability to amplify (electric) instruments creates a need for us to fundamentally re-appraise our perceptions of what is necessarily popular and/or classical. For example, although a small 'band' consisting at its core of bass, drums, and guitar is a typical popular band arrangement, it is nonetheless perfectly viable unless a very 'thick texture' is desired for any form of music. I would tentatively suggest the reason why orchestras consist of 'sections' was inititally to create greater volume levels - but the 'chorused' sound was also desirable.

Another important consideration, as mentioned by another poster, is that of notation. A considerable amount of expressive inflections on the instrument do have special, standard(ised) notation. However, the minutiae invloving how the string is 'treated' by the fretting and picking hand, especially in relation to the amplifier's characteristics do often define the particular results intended and therefore the composer's interpretation, as recorded (aurally), becomes the best representation of the music, rather than the score. This is a paradigmatic shift away from traditional 'classical' thinking in terms of the interpretation-transcending validity of the score. Moreover, it begins to seem clear why even more 'serious' electric guitar music is often simply retained by memory, and subsequently recorded; after all, there is not the burgeoning requirement to assimilate a composition in notation if recordings exist, you know the piece off-by-heart, and you do not see the obvious validity in trying to express your music more abstractly, although arguably, less exactly.

Nonetheless, I would prefer to both, and I think this would be the best option, in terms of broadening the repertoire of the instrument, and making it accessible. 

Anyhow, enough from me already(!)


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## chee_zee

You should check out Elias Homlid/Olof Morck of 'Dragonland'. Specifically 'the house on the hill' and 'the book of shadows'.

also, shawn lane. as far as his 'classical' stuff goes, it didn't have guitar unfortunately (2 songs, both from his 'powers of ten album'). 

other than that I have yet to find anything worth mentioning, a few choice passages from Rhapsody of Fire perhaps, though they tend to be more of a mockery of Baroque and Romantic than a true 'neo-baroque/romantic' style, a la Malmsteen's effort (though they are much much better at melody writing and orchestration). symphony x might be worth your while, however I find their stuff to be overly repetitive, every lick is phrygian this and phrygian that.


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## the_emptier

symphony x was my favorite band for a loooong time. The Odyssey (song) is a masterpiece, it's a 24 minute song about the story, and has a ton of symphonic stuff in it. all digital/electronic but still very cool. michael romeo is really really tasteful regardless of his sometimes overused techniques (the sweep-tapping stuff especially) i'm really excited for their new album. 

shawn lane is my idol and god. he had the capacity to do anything with the guitar...truly a legend


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## sproul

I play guitar, but usually more jazz stuff. As a classical instrument it works well, though I have only a little experience in this myself.

If anyone is looking for a piece to arrange, the guitar lends itself well to Pachelbel's canon (and I'm not reffering to that dreadful 'Canon Rock' thing), as ALL the chords can be played with natural, open string harmonics (proof of the natural beauty of the canon, perhaps?). I was planning to arrange it myself, for a trio perhaps; guitar, piano, violin, but I've got a lot of work at school at the moment and nowhere really to perform it.

I made a youtube video of how it works, if anyone wants to check it out:


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## Uberloinvongenchler

Hi everyone,

Basically, there are three discussions going on here: one about transcribing classical repertoire for the electric guitar, another about who the current guitar greats are, and lastly, what would be a good means of working with the instrument in a classical context. I was principally dealing with the latter. However these are all worthwhile topics.

Of those mentioned Yngwie Malmsteen and Shawn Lane are two who's work I am very familiar with. I think Yngwie is always difficult to contend with because the fact of the matter is he has worked seriously in both classical and rock contexts. He laps up the attention of rock and metal fans, yet also likes to stand proudly with an orchestra and recite his concerto...essentially representing two cultural niches, which I think leads to a certain distrust from both camps. I think his contribution to both settings should be valued on its own terms. I think the fact that he has brought virtuosity to the instrument and has placed the instrument in a neo-baroque setting with his concerto is to be respected and praised. It is also not a very worthwhile exercise to eschew his efforts because he worked with an orchestrator: most electric guitarists and orchestrators (and conductors) are not familiar with this sort of synergie, so I think it is well worthwhile and an essential interaction. 

Shawn Lane fascinates me particularly, because his music is so rich in its geneology. His music is probably properly described as 'fusion' although this term is pressumed to be short for jazz-fusion. Lane composed rhymically,melodically and harmonically sophisticated music on both the piano and guitar. His technique was also world-class, and unique. Lane seems to have drawn primarily on a classical approach to composition, rock-derived instrumentation, jazz-influenced harmony, and Indian classical music's approach to improvisation. In my opinion, he is the consumate musical master - composer and improvisor: always open-minded towards different musics and approaches, constantly absorbing them and fashioning them according to his own creative 'muse'.


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## chee_zee

To me, Shawn Lane is the best musician of modern times, by far. you should join lanesblitz.com and visit willjay's youtube channel 'myshawnlanevideos', though judging from how you seem to know a bit about him already I'm certain you've already heard of both of those places.

I don't take issue with the fact that malmsteen had to use his keyboardist as an orchestrator, I take issue with the fact that, well my opinion that, orchestrator or not, the orchestra itself played too small a role. it basically was just yngwie shredding away while the first section violins play staccato half notes of the tonic and dominant, with the rest of the orchestra sitting idly by. now that's obviously a gross oversimplification, but it gets the point across that better things could be done.


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## norman bates

for me it's all horrible tacky, tawdry stuff, malmsteen, rhapsody, symphony x (i don't remember well Shawn Lane altough i've listened years ago one album). Some minor harmonic scale is not classical music


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## norman bates

chee_zee said:


> To me, Shawn Lane is the best musician of modern times, by far. you should join lanesblitz.com and visit willjay's youtube channel 'myshawnlanevideos', though judging from how you seem to know a bit about him already I'm certain you've already heard of both of those places.


what do you consider his best pieces? I don't want to listen entire albums now, but i'm curious because of the respect he gets from many people


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## chee_zee

Xerath is a pretty good band, mostly just riffs, annoying vox, and whatnot rather than using the guitar in a more classical way, but their orchestrations are pretty good nonetheless so just skip the 'metal' parts heh heh.

ok for shawn lane:


'powers of ten: suite'
'piano concertino: transormation of themes'
'not again' (don't listen to the album version, watch a live one, should be at least 7 minutes. preferably the one from his 'REH instructional vid)
'epilogue for lisa'
'paris'
'gray pianos flying'
'rice with the angels'
'juvalamu'
'baraji'
'stellar rays' (also called 'time is the enemy')
'one note at a time'
'aga of the ladies'
'shankarabaranam'
should give you an idea of his genius, pretty representative list of works on his many albums that's about 1-1.5 hours of music right there.

Guess if we want something done right we have to do it ourselves. OP, in a few years we should collaborate and make 2 guitar concerti, and try to get them debuted in the same night/place heh heh. who knows, perhaps one day the vienna philharmonic will be playing our stuff


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## norman bates

thank you :tiphat:


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## chee_zee

Before this thread reaches oblivion, I'd like to add a belief of mine. Personally, I feel as though the world has become obsessed with musicians who, not even 50 years ago, would be viewed as less than talented/skilled. The world worships at the feet of the 2 string power chord 3-chords-per-song metal riffers who comp a delirious vocalist screaming nonsense into a mic, while a one man team of percussionists blast away as fast as they can the same basic and uninspiring 1 bar patterns.

not a one of them knows a 'lick' of theory, playing everything by ear, which often leads to multiple simultaneous keys. It's one thing to do so out of knowledge of theory and a goal-oriented conscious mindset, deliberately creating a synthetic key or tonal system for the advancement of one's art, but to be completely oblivious as to what you are playing, all in the name of 'brootal heavy metal', is nothing short of hilarious (and not to mention disheartening in my faith and feeling toward where humanity is headed).

I feel as though we (as in the few of us here who have shown an interest in serious composing for an instrument that has been subjected to brutish nonmusical torture by a bunch of ignorant barbarians seeking fame and fortune, rather than seeking advancement of aural art, sourced from that internal wellspring from which all mortal things draw from, granted to all by the infinite and omniscient Immortal One,) are ready, willing, and able to start a revolution. Too long has art music taken a backseat to lowly entertainment 'music'. I don't know about you, but I'm ready for it to reclaim it's proper place in society, lest our species go down in the History of Everything as a race that destroyed itself with the poison of mindless entertainment, in seeking material nothingness, popular appeal that doesn't make the Immortal One look upon one more favorably , and amounts to nothing in the End of All Things anyway.


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## norman bates

chee_zee said:


> I feel as though we (as in the few of us here who have shown an interest in serious composing for an instrument that has been subjected to brutish nonmusical torture by a bunch of ignorant barbarians seeking fame and fortune.


hey, i like a lot of ignorant barbarians, there's a lot of good also in rock'n'roll and in barbarian sounds 














three diffrent ways to express the same idea


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## Kopachris

chee_zee said:


> [Snip]
> I feel as though we (as in the few of us here who have shown an interest in serious composing for an instrument that has been subjected to brutish nonmusical torture by a bunch of ignorant barbarians seeking fame and fortune, rather than seeking advancement of aural art, sourced from that internal wellspring from which all mortal things draw from, granted to all by the infinite and omniscient Immortal One,) are ready, willing, and able to start a revolution. Too long has art music taken a backseat to lowly entertainment 'music'. I don't know about you, but I'm ready for it to reclaim it's proper place in society, lest our species go down in the History of Everything as a race that destroyed itself with the poison of mindless entertainment, in seeking material nothingness, popular appeal that doesn't make the Immortal One look upon one more favorably , and amounts to nothing in the End of All Things anyway.


Very well thought out, and I am sympathetic to your cause, but I must point out that entertainment music has its own place and must coexist with art music. The way you worded things, saying "lowly entertainment 'music'" indicated to me that mere coexistence was not your ultimate goal for entertainment music. Personally, I believe that art music will once again become prominent in society when people enjoy listening to it. Too much art music composed in today's era is unbearable to listen to. Frankly, most modernist music I've heard sounds a lot like a train wreck. People enjoy watching train wrecks, not listening to them. It seems to me that when the Romantics abandoned form in favor of some harsher expression that they were unable to achieve with form, they unwittingly locked themselves in a narrow range of expression, forgetting how to create the softer emotions that classical forms are capable of, forgetting, in fact, how to properly express themselves within the limits of classical form and tonality. For more literature related to this philosophy of mine, I refer you to a webcomic I found: http://www.classicalmusicisboring.com


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## norman bates

Kopachris said:


> Frankly, most modernist music I've heard sounds a lot like* a train wreck.* [/url]


i suspect there's a relation with what i've posted


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## Kopachris

norman bates said:


> i suspect there's a relation with what i've posted


Actually, I hadn't even listened to the Youtube pieces you posted, but now that I have, I see what you mean. So... no relation... intentionally, anyway.


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## chee_zee

lol you can't write irony like that folks.


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## the_emptier

I don't think guitar needs to be incorporated in a classical sense, i've been a big metal fan for a long time and there are some bands that really push the boundaries for what a band can do, complex arrangements, polyphony and technicality are all mixed in but don't compromise a melodic sound. it's certainly not everyones cup of tea, but the direction bands are currently going in is extremely avant-garde, mixing all sorts of genres from jazz to blues to metal to prog etc. and it's really exciting to see that


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## chee_zee

That it is, Scale the Summit and Animals as Leaders are two bands I can think of.


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## the_emptier

definitely, the instrumental stuff is really taking off. I listened to scale the summits new album yesterday and i like it a lot, animals with leaders is amazing as well.


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## wingracer

Had never heard of animals with leaders. Checking out youtube now it's amazing stuff.


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## chee_zee

StS and AaL are more blurred in the line between serious and entertainment. but in the end, there are only two types of music (no not serious and entertainment); good and not good.


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## Iforgotmypassword

chee_zee said:


> not a one of them knows a 'lick' of theory, playing everything by ear, which often leads to multiple simultaneous keys. It's one thing to do so out of knowledge of theory and a goal-oriented conscious mindset, deliberately creating a synthetic key or tonal system for the advancement of one's art, but to be completely oblivious as to what you are playing, all in the name of 'brootal heavy metal', is nothing short of hilarious (and not to mention disheartening in my faith and feeling toward where humanity is headed).


I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to strongly disagree here. While knowledge of musical theory IS important and very helpful when one is attempting to compose music, it is not necessary. I'm no music history major, but from what I understand music survived as well as progressed for thousands of years without such things as a consensus upon how to write music or what time signatures were... music was at least at one point in time all improvised and totally by ear. Does this make the music of previous times invalid or inferior? Why do you look down upon those who play by ear?

As a musician who learned by ear I have to say that playing by ear is SUPERIOR to simply reading music and using theory if you had to separate the two completely. I have the ability to pick up my instrument and just start playing, improvising, imagining and producing music that I have in my head. Music is a living medium and therefore it shouldn't be left stagnant and rigid.

I personally have very limited knowledge of music theory, I realise that I should increase said knowledge and I intend to do so however would you hold music that I come up with on a lower level simply because I don't know what key/s it is in? I know what notes I want and how they contrast in a manner which I enjoy. I know what feelings are evoked within myself when a certain progression is played or if a dissonant chord is resolved etc. I don't need to know what it is called to place it where I want it to go. Technical skill and/or knowledge does not equate a well written piece of music. I prefer to listen to a street drummer such as this





than listen some of these more bland "well composed" pieces of academic olympics.

I do agree, learn the rules and then you can break them... but it's awfully closed-minded to think that music lacks validity if it isn't composed by someone who knows the "rules". What rules? It is an art form utilizing audible vibration. Make art.


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## kv466

*Well said, PW!*

This is one of my favorite (non-jazz nor classical) compositions for electric guitar.






Also has some sweet bass jams in the middle.


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## starthrower

I revisited this piece last night. It still sounds beautiful after 32 years!
Unfortunately they chopped off the first couple of notes of the intro,
but you can hear it again on the recap.


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## starthrower

Here's another long time favorite by Frank Zappa.
Such a gorgeous melody! Sounds like an electro-
acoustic plugged straight into the board.


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## starthrower

That Steve Vai tune is a killer! I first heard it a couple of years before the CD was released. Guitar Player Magazine released it on a floppy record insert. I believe Stu Hamm is on bass.


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## kv466

starthrower said:


> That Steve Vai tune is a killer! I first heard it a couple of years before the CD was released. Guitar Player Magazine released it on a floppy record insert. I believe Stu Hamm is on bass.


You believe correctly, señor...sometimes he plays with Billy Sheehan but P&W is all Stu.


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## Iforgotmypassword

Gavin Bryers has several pieces for electric guitar













In my opinion people haven't really paid attention to maximizing the real potential of the instrument and they've composed for it as if it were a violin or an acoustic guitar, neither of which are accurate. We'll see though, I'm willing to bet that soon there will be many more compositions for electric guitar which focus on the strengths of the instrument itself.


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## Pat

Hello, I´m new to the forum!!! I came across this discussion and thought it would be cool to join and share some pieces that mix electric guitar with an orchestra, or in same cases with a string instrument. Ok, let´s look at the videos

Steve Vai - For the Love of God





This version is really interesting, it a has a really really cool arrangement for the orchestra, and when Vai kicks in everything explodes. I think is an interesting example. Vai is getting into writing pieces for orchestra, I think one of his last albums was written for an orchestra with new songs he wrote and arrangements of older ones.

Steffen Schackinger w/ Jane Clark - Time






Steffen & Jane - The Dixieland - (Guitar & Fiddle)






This guy is really good, he is from Denmark and this two pieces of music feature a violin, they are really good. Of course it is different to the one of Steve Vai but you get to hear how the two instruments blend. If you check his other videos you´ll find come really cool music, besides, if you check the Candyrat channel you`ll find the famous Andy Mackee, all his videos are in this channel. Plus, there are other really cool guitar players and Michael Manring which is a bass player, if you haven´t listened to him give it a go, it`s worth while!

Well, hope you find these links interesting! It is true that the potential of the electric guitar hasn´t been fully exploded, Michael Hedges said that when he began exploring the electric guitar the instrument had so many possibilities. We can try and come up with new cool ideas.

Cheers!


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## Chrythes

What about the early Mike Oldfield? 
His long instrumental pieces are orchestral in their essence, with the guitar being the leading instrument. 
Ommadawn, which IMO his best piece.
This is the first part -




There's also Hergest Ridge, which is in the style of Ommadawn. I couldn't find a video on Youtube that would do any justice to this piece. 
And the most famous one is probably Tubular Bells. The Exorcist music.


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## Pat

Wow Chrytes! That`t really good!!! First time I hear about Ommadawn and I must say, it`s FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!! Look, you may find this interesting.

http://tubular.net/analysis/ommadawn/

There you get a description of the album, the context in which it was composed with references to Hergest Ridge, analysis of the music and orchestration. I had never heard Tubular Bells before, knew it butnever heard it! Thank you for these two great pieces!  It is true what you say about them being orchestral,in fact, if you check the link, when they analyze the instruments used in Ommadawn they say it is orchestral. You only need to see all the instruments used, it`s incredibe.

Good Luck!


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## Cnote11

Uh-oh guys, lets not go down the path where our race will be destined to be the example of a tragic downfall by all the other species that keep historical documents. The history of everything? The immortal one? What in the world are you on about? It is hard to listen to your point with all that rubbish clogging it up. I knew a guy from Rockford, Illinois once. Horrible place.

Also, I find it hilarious that neoshredder liked a post of Gavin Bryars links.


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## Iforgotmypassword

Cnote11 said:


> Also, I find it hilarious that neoshredder liked a post of Gavin Bryars links.


Ah irony, where would we be without you?


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## Cnote11

I'd like to post also that I thought Iforgotmypassword's post was intriguing. What exactly do you mean by the strengths of the instrument. I'll have you know I picked up guitar for the first time in my life 3 months ago. One of the beautiful things I find about the guitar are its timbral possibilities! The billions of ways you can manipulate the sound, not to mention the things you can do base-line with it. I feel like the guitar has been greatly explored in genres outside of Classical in those respects, and myself, I'm currently looking to expand on the electric guitar vocabulary once I become efficient enough. I'm interested in you sharing your opinions on the place of electric guitar within the classical realm, its possibilities, and what you feel are the strengths of the instrument.


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## Iforgotmypassword

Cnote11 said:


> I'd like to post also that I thought Iforgotmypassword's post was intriguing. What exactly do you mean by the strengths of the instrument. I'll have you know I picked up guitar for the first time in my life 3 months ago. One of the beautiful things I find about the guitar are its timbral possibilities! The billions of ways you can manipulate the sound, not to mention the things you can do base-line with it. I feel like the guitar has been greatly explored in genres outside of Classical in those respects, and myself, I'm currently looking to expand on the electric guitar vocabulary once I become efficient enough. I'm interested in you sharing your opinions on the place of electric guitar within the classical realm, its possibilities, and what you feel are the strengths of the instrument.


Well I posted that response when I was just beginning to get more heavily into drone music and projects which used the amplified aspect of the guitar to create unique sounds and timbers (as you mentioned) that one just can't get from other instruments. Projects of Stephen O'malley interest me a lot, he tends to delve mainly into the more drone/Amplifier experimentation, using feedback as an instrument and stuff like that.

I recently saw an article by an avant-garde guitarist which shows some more of the possibilities of electric guitar on a bit of the other side of the spectrum. She uses things like Chalk and brushes on her guitar to produce very interesting, complex sounds.

Of course on the extreme side there is also table-top guitars which you probably know about as well.

I just think that when people think of electric guitar, they tend to think of this loud frilly shred solo that is about as subtle as a rhinoceros trying to fit in at a traditional british dinner party. I personally believe that the subtleties are just beginning to be explored and as they are more fully realized, their viability for serious composition will increase exponentially.

Here's the article of the avant-garde guitarist: http://www.freepresshouston.com/music/sandy-ewen/


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## Cnote11

Ah, I see, I thought you meant more in a classical sense. Drone is great! I was just playing Sunn O))) the other night to sleep  Thanks for the article, by the way. This stuff always intrigues me. I've enjoyed people playing with bows and screwdrivers and whatever else they could find. If you're into drone there is an album that I recommend. I'll post it up in the obscure genres thread. It is more of a conceptual album.


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## Iforgotmypassword

Cnote11 said:


> Ah, I see, I thought you meant more in a classical sense. Drone is great! I was just playing Sunn O))) the other night to sleep  Thanks for the article, by the way. This stuff always intrigues me. I've enjoyed people playing with bows and screwdrivers and whatever else they could find. If you're into drone there is an album that I recommend. I'll post it up in the obscure genres thread. It is more of a conceptual album.


Well I do mean in the classical sense as well. I think that these things are all very much applicable in the contemporary classical field where the lines are very blurred to begin with anyways. I see no reason why the electric guitar couldn't be implemented into more intellectual compositions along with more traditional instruments. It'd just have to be done just right. The greatest challenge I think would be how to deal with the amplification source, since it will stand out so separately from the other instruments which don't need a separate source for amplification.

Yeah, I've been doing a bit of experimenting using a scredriver on my electric the past couple of days to create a sort of collage of drones. I'm trying to come up with some way to creat "pillars" of sound which compliment oneanother, but still stand obviously separate from oneanother as well, creating a 3 dimensional sensation. It didn't turn out how I had envisioned it, but maybe better for another use... I honestly wonder if some of my musical visions are impossible to do, or at least impossible to record.

I saw the video, it's really great actually.


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## Cnote11

That is one of my favorite things about Contemporary Classical. I suppose it would be easier to add in a guitar for texture rather than as a stand out melodic instrument under those conditions. Also, it definitely isn't impossible to do. If you have enough pedals, programs, and looping pedals and delays especially  you can do whatever really. I wish I could get a better sense of what you are trying to do.


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## Iforgotmypassword

Cnote11 said:


> That is one of my favorite things about Contemporary Classical. I suppose it would be easier to add in a guitar for texture rather than as a stand out melodic instrument under those conditions. Also, it definitely isn't impossible to do. If you have enough pedals, programs, and looping pedals and delays especially  you can do whatever really. I wish I could get a better sense of what you are trying to do.


That was my thought as well. At least for now, using it for underlying textures would be the most effective method I think.

Sometimes I'm not even sure of what it is that I'm trying to do, it's more of a feeling than something that I can actively put into words, in this case though my idea is to create several different "pillars" of sound which the listener can walk between, hearing each different sound as a separate idea but also having the ability to hear them together as a whole as well. I want to create a sensation of massive space between each of these ideas, but a sense of unity between them as well. The inspiration is the idea of multiple dimensions making up the universe.

I've got a few ideas as to how I might achieve this, but I'm afraid to post them on the internet because I don't want someone stealing my genius idea! haha you can PM me if you're curious. I just don't want it floating around cyberspace while it's still in it's formative stages.

I honestly far prefer extended techniques to using pedals and effects like that. There's something rawer and more real to me that is lost through all those pedals, though they do have their place of course.


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## Cnote11

You can go only get so far, I think, when trying to create certain sounds however. It becomes difficult, as we see in the other thread you posted, to not use that sort of manipulation when trying to get certain effects, as they serve to shape the sounds in new ways that aren't possible otherwise.


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## Iforgotmypassword

This is true, but in the other thread I'm speaking strictly about electronic manipulation of acoustic sounds. I feel like that's sort of a different ballpark.


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## Cnote11

To me, that is technically all pedals really are. One may think of pedals as solely converting digital sounds that come from the electric guitar. When you transfer your acoustic sample into a digital medium, whether it is a looper/sampler or a DAW, such as Garage Band, then it essentially becomes digital and is open to the same manipulation. As I mentioned, pedals are merely physical stomp boxes of sound effect manipulation, but these same things can be found in DAWs and the like. There is no actual difference, although on a computer you have infinite more control over the sound. But whether you are using a physical pedal to suppress and manipulate the attack envelope or you are doing it on a computer, each are doing the same action. I understand the difference that you do see, however, in terms of acoustic post-production and pure digital signal, if I'm not mistaken, but you can also do real-time acoustic manipulation through physical pedals with the right set up.


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## Iforgotmypassword

I agree, which is why using a pedal for that purpose is perfect. I may look more into using pedals in electronic composition, or maybe some sort of built-in effects would be better.( I've seen tutorials on how to build your own pedals as well, maybe that would be the most ideal since I could then customize exactly what I wanted... Hmmm)

I'm just saying that as an instrument, I prefer to work with it as a more physical thing. Manipulating the sound using techniques and physical interaction as opposed to a more electronic approach in regard to acutal "electric guitar music". But of course there is also the massive potential of the electric guitar to be used... like you mentioned, as an electronic instrument itself, put through a vast array of electronics and such. 

I like both sides of the coin, but my heart leans toward the simpler, grittier, more human side. I like to see music as a very physical, primal thing, which is why I also lean towards the less invasive forms of electronic music, meaning that I prefer to refine the sounds as little as possible, preserving their natural states (much like that composition of field recordings that you posted on the obscure music thread). 

Not sure if that makes sense...


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