# Beethoven’s Lieder



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

While less well known for his Lieder than his much younger contemporary, Schubert, Beethoven wrote a good amount of Lieder himself, and was one of the founding developers of the tradition. I believe he even wrote a couple of song cycles, presaging the famous cycles of Schubert and, later, Schumann, Brahms, Wolf, Schoenberg etc.

I haven't heard many of Beethoven's songs, but in accordance with my slowly developing deep appreciation for Lieder, I want to hear more. I really love this one:






I am a huge fan of Fritz Wunderlich and he delivers a beautiful performance here. Shame he didn't record more Beethoven Lieder.

Anyone here in the know about these works? If anyone wants to share their favorite recordings of Beethoven's Lieder here, it would be sincerely appreciated


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

PS. I’ve always been a firm believer that Beethoven is a classical composer — a transitional figure, yes, but more classical than romantic. This song though is evidence to the contrary. This is another reason why I want to hear more of these. I feel like I’m catching a glimpse of a whole other side of Beethoven.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

While I don't find Lieder to be among Beethoven's stronger genres, this is one of my favorites:


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> While less well known for his Lieder than his much younger contemporary, Schubert, Beethoven wrote a good amount of Lieder himself, and was one of the founding developers of the tradition. I believe he even wrote a couple of song cycles, presaging the famous cycles of Schubert and, later, Schumann, Brahms, Wolf, Schoenberg etc.
> 
> I haven't heard many of Beethoven's songs, but in accordance with my slowly developing deep appreciation for Lieder, I want to hear more. I really love this one:
> 
> ...


*Well Beethoven made of lot of arrangements for money of course,some are really lovely.*


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Something amusing from Beethoven: The Flea Song.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

For me, not even close to the level of Schubert and the subsequent romantic Lieder composers. Of course, there is not a single vocal composition by Beethoven that I like, so it must be something in the way he writes for voices that simply does not agree with me.

His most famous song cycle is An die ferne Geliebte. I have it in the version of Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, my favourite Lieder singer.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

A favorite of mine is "An die Hoffnung" [translated, "In Hope"], Op. 32, which was dedicated to Josephine von Brunsvik: his "only beloved". Josephine was almost certainly Beethoven's "immortal beloved":






His 2nd "An die Hoffnung", Op. 94, composed ten years later in 1815, is likely connected to her, as well, & sadly, is more desperate and harrowing: 




Beethoven's Andante favori, WoO 57, was a declaration of his love to Josephine, too. You can hear Beethoven calling out her name Jo-seph-in-e again & again & again throughout the music. There's no mistaking that it was intended:


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Those were beautiful, @Josquin, thanks for the links. 

@Art Rock, frankly, no one is close to the level of Schubert in this genre, other than Schumann when he was really on his A-game, and Mahler, if we're counting orchestral Lieder. So you're probably right. Speaking personally, I think there may be something of value here, and discovering all this is a really interesting insight into another side of his character and his music. But if you don't like any of it at all, that's perfectly fine too! Life is too short to pretend or to force oneself to enjoy Beethoven :lol: I am a fan, and a lot of his music connects with me on a deep level. And then a lot of it doesn't. I'm a pretty new fan of Beethoven, still figuring out what's what. 

I would agree that Beethoven was not half the vocal composer that Schubert would be, or that Mozart was for that matter. But I want to hear more of his songs before really making that call. As far as great vocal works of his, I would nominate the Missa Solemnis, though I know some do not like it. (I haven't heard Fidelio, and I'm not crazy about the vocal finale of the 9th).

I'm going to look into that Dietrich Fischer Dieskau recording of An die ferne Geliebte. I love his voice. My own favorite Lied singer, Fritz Wunderlich, has recorded it too! I will try and get my hands on both in time.

To derail the thread a bit, if you all had to recommend one disc of Brahms' Lieder to someone uninitiated, which would it be?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

flamencosketches said:


> To derail the thread a bit, if you all had to recommend one disc of Brahms' Lieder to someone uninitiated, which would it be?


Alexander Kipnis:


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## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I own a cd with this exact performance with Schumann and Schubert. Lucky me to stumble on it for nothing really. But I came upon a cd of folk songs by Beethoven. Listen to some of the songs but I need to really listen to it again. I did not know he dabbled in it.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Bigbang said:


> I own a cd with this exact performance with Schumann and Schubert. Lucky me to stumble on it for nothing really. But I came upon a cd of folk songs by Beethoven. Listen to some of the songs but I need to really listen to it again. I did not know he dabbled in it.


Yep I have it too, with Schumann's Dichterliebe and a few Schubert songs. Excellent performances by Wunderlich.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

flamencosketches writes, "To derail the thread a bit, if you all had to recommend one disc of Brahms' Lieder to someone uninitiated, which would it be?"

I'd recommend any Brahms recording by mezzo-soprano Dame Janet Baker. I especially like her EMI album with pianist Andre Previn and violist Cecil Aronowitz of late Brahms songs:

Zwei Gesänge, Op. 91, with violist Cecil Aronowitz: 



Vier ernste Gesänge, or Four Serious Songs, Op. 121: 



https://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Serio...+brahms&qid=1561569783&s=music&sr=1-2-catcorr

But there's also an excellent BBC album of Brahms Lieder from Baker, with pianists Ernest Lush & Paul Hamburger:









https://www.amazon.com/Lieder-Janet...aker+bbc+brahms&qid=1561569890&s=music&sr=1-4

In addition, I'd strongly recommend soprano Elly Ameling's Brahms Lieder, too, with pianists Norman Shetler and Dalton Baldwin. (There's also a later Brahms record by her with pianist Rudolf Janssen, which I've not heard.) Ameling's Brahms is special, especially her early recordings with Shetler. Although her recordings may be difficult to track down these days, except for in Ameling box sets, so I'd suggest that you listen on You Tube, or maybe Spotify, if interested:

With Dalton Baldwin:









With Norman Shetler:


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