# How was Beethoven's Allegretto encored at its premiere?



## OwenK (Nov 24, 2014)

Wikipedia remarks that Beethoven's famous 2nd movement from his 7th symphony had to be encored "immediately".



> At its première, Beethoven was noted as remarking that it was one of his best works. The second movement, Allegretto, was the most popular movement and had to be encored. The instant popularity of the Allegretto resulted in its frequent performance separate from the complete symphony.
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> [...]
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> The piece was very well received, and the second movement, the Allegretto, had to be encored immediately. (link)


When it says "immediately", does it mean that they actually encored the 2nd movement immediately, right as the 2nd movement finished?

Or did they play the 2nd movement again at the end of the concert, which to my understanding is what an "encore" generally means.

So of course this is more of a history question than anything  I'm just a little confused by the way Wikipedia puts it.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*How was Beethoven's Allegretto encored at its premiere?*

Faster than _Andante_, but not so fast as_ Allegro_, I suspect. :tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

It had to be played pretty fast. Can't see the audience wishing to hear it again at some of the dirge-like dreary tempos I've heard on some recordings.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

hpowders said:


> It had to be played pretty fast. Can't see the audience wishing to hear it again at some of the dirge-like dreary tempos I've heard on some recordings.


It's been a while, I'll admit ... but I do believe that upon my first hearing of this piece, on a Joseph Krips/London Symphony LP recorded in the late 1950s ... I vaguely recall that I immediately replayed that Allegretto movement, at 33rpm speed on the old turntable, taking whatever tempo Krips had established, and loved it, and still do. It remains one of my favorite moments in all of Beethoven.

I can understand why the first audience wanted a reprise. We're lucky. We have immediate playback devices. Of course, that first audience was lucky, too -- for having the first listen to this remarkable movement. Something to envy them for.


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## OwenK (Nov 24, 2014)

Oh, the question is "when", not "how".

Was it played again at the *end* of the concert, or was it played twice in succession?


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2014)

No, when an encore is called for, it means straight away, "again".


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I'd guess it was repeated immediately. In those days audiences applauded after each movement. Real monster applause at the very end might call for a repeat "da capo" of the whole work. This was noted in a review of Beethoven's horn sonata, when it was premiered by the composer and Punto in 1800: "The sonata pleased so much that, in spite of the new theatre regulations, which forbid da capo and loud applause in the Court theatre, the virtuosos were nevertheless moved by loud applause to start from the top and repeat the work after they had finished."


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2014)

Whatever. In any case, there is no greater pleasure or honour for a performing musician than to respond to an encore. Lord, you just can't beat live performance! It's what music is all about.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I have also read this somewhere before and that it was repeated straight away i.e. A true encore as note above.
For the life of me I can't remember where I read this but will try to find it


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I've always been under the impression that it was played immediately after they applauded it, being straight after the movement finished.


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## ToneDeaf&Senile (May 20, 2010)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was encored straight away before tackling the next movement.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

I agree with most posts above that it was most likely immediate, in the same way that the slow movement of Mozart's 22nd piano concerto was demanded to be encored.

_"The first Viennese audience applauded the C minor Andante so insistently that Mozart played it again"._ -- Phillip Huscher


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, encored immediately. As Ken's post makes clear, it was standard to applaud after each movement, so all it took was more vigorous applause at the usual time.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Speaking of encores, if I recall correctly the Bronfman concert was met with such crazy applause that the soloist had to play som encores.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

Well, as I said above, the French word "encore" means (in this context) "again". So, when a bunch of enthusiastic music lovers starts clapping wildly and shouting "Encore! Encore!" they mean for the player(s) to do it *again*, at once. It has nothing to do with "Bravo".
Same when my kids were young, I'd perform some party trick and they'd shout "Papa, encore! Encore!" ["Pops, again! Do it again!"]


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Somebody -- Serkin? -- encountered demands for an encore after finishing the Goldbergs. So he sat back down and played the Diabellis. Now _there's _an encore!

(story from memory)


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2014)

Now that's value for money !


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