# Piano Trios: Their significance, important works and great recordings.



## principe

As a new member, I'm not sure if the question of the Piano Trios has been dealt with.
From my perspective, I wish to have a debate on their significance in the development of the production of the various composers, to identify the most important of them and to name some great recordings along the way.
As for me, the Piano Trios constitute some of the most vital forms of composition and some composers wrote some of the most brilliant music for Piano in this medium. 

Principe


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## Mephistopheles

I'm afraid I don't think I can offer anything substantial on this topic, but I will say that my favourite piano trios of all time are Mendelssohn's pair, and I think the recording that really captures their vitality is by the Trio Jean Paul.


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## principe

Excellent choice, Mephistopheles. The recording is good, but, in any case, these works have a saturated stock of all kind of recordings. A real embarassment of choice. 
However, before we reach the Romantic (early reomantic) era, there are plenty from composers before Mendelssohn. Are you sure you are not aware of any of them?

Principe


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## Sonata

I really like the Mendelssohn pair. I'll add to his, Haydn's piano trios. I have an album from "Trio Wanderer" of Haydn's 39, 43-45. 43 and 44 in particular are my favorites.


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## principe

By all means, Sonata. Haydn was the father of Piano Trio medium. It is imperative for anyone interested in getting to know this outstanding and brilliant form of music to indulge in listening to practically the whole output of Haydn's opus in this field. 
The late ones, like the two in E-flat, the one in E major, the one in C major, the one in F sharp minor and the famous G major "the Gypsy" are some of the very best music for the Piano Trio music, containing the most brilliant music, in the Classic period, for piano along with Mozart's Piano Concerti, in the repertory for piano plus other instruments.

Principe


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## Ramako

Is it not the case that Haydn's piano trios 'suffer' from the limitations of the instruments of the time? What I mean is I that the pianos he was writing for had a very weak bass, so the 'cello doubling the bass most of the time is less a lack of imagination than a necessity imposed by contemporary instruments. Similarly, the pianos of the day had a brighter sound than modern ones, so we get passages, for example, where the piano and violin are in thirds - with the piano on top. This seems odd on modern instruments, because the balancing is different, but period instruments are not everyone's taste (not mine, that's for sure). Apparently this is also the genre which contains his most free expression for the piano.

I don't know the genre very well, but I thought I would add that in which I read somewhere. I'll listen to some of the Beethoven ones (I was given a complete set recently), and see what I think.


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## peeyaj

Schubert's two piano trios: in B Flat and E Flat major.  Two of the greatest piano trio ever written.  Dvorak's Dumky Trio is great, too.


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## ScipioAfricanus

Robert Fuchs wrote 2, Frederich Gernsheim wrote 2, and Herzogenberg wrote 2. These are must haves to sit along side those of Brahms and Schumann.


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## Quartetfore

Mozart is thought in his last Piano Trios to free the Cello from just providing a bass line to being an important part of the Piano Trio.
Just about every important composer in the 19th century tried his hand at the genre, except Wagner of course. The 19th century was the Golden age of the Piano Trio, there seemed to be a falling off of interest as we come into our time, althoughRavel and much later Shostakovich composed masterworks. I would think that a good basic list to explore would be:
Bethoven, Op. 79#1 (Ghost) and Op.97 (Arch Duke
Schubert Op. 99
Brahms, First and Second Trios
Dvorak, Op65, and Op. 95 (Dumkey)
Ravels only Trio
Shostakovich 2nd trio
Arensky, his first Trio (a beautiful work)
From past posts, every one seems to have favorites, but I think that the above will serve as a good way to get into a very worthwhile area of Chamber Music.


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## Klavierspieler

Schumann's Piano Trios. Particularly No. 2.

I have the Beaux Arts Trio:


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## Sid James

The piano trio has become one of my favourite combinations in chamber music. I like the old stuff of course, but I like the newer stuff as well, one I'd mention is the one by Charles Ives, which has this crazy counterpoint and his trademark hymn tunes (and the middle movement is marked TSIAJ or _This Scherzo Is A Joke_). Contemporary Australian composers have done ones I like as well, Nigel Westlake and Paul Stanhope.

Some older threads on this topic:
http://www.talkclassical.com/9459-favourite-piano-trios.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/16284-piano-trios.html


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I particularly like trios made up of piano, string and wind instrument. Particulaly piano, clarinet and viola or *horn, violin and piano.*


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## principe

I'm truly glad that this medium has some fans and two other threads have been established in the past (thanks Sid).
My perspective was to discuss about the significance of the medium and to refer to some recordings too, along the way. 
Since we are still in mentioning composers and works, I have to add the wonderful trios of the contemporaries of Beethoven, namely Pleyel, Hummel, Ries, Spohr, Hoffmann. Later, Fanny Mendelssohn and Clara Schumann and the two miraculously beautiful Piano Trios of Saint-Saens. we should not forget, by the way, the gorgeous Trio by Faure.


More to follow, later.

Principe


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## Sonata

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I particularly like trios made up of piano, string and wind instrument. Particulaly piano, clarinet and viola or *horn, violin and piano.*


Ahh, yes. I completely agree!


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## principe

Another omission so far: None mentioned the great, superb, magnificent, albeit a Romantic over the top Piano Trio by...Tchaikovsky. Amazing work, if you have the time, the stamina and the sheer interest in such a Romantic immense journey. Great work in the medium, anyway.

Principe


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## Taneyev

principe said:


> Another omission so far: None mentioned the great, superb, magnificent, albeit a Romantic over the top Piano Trio by...Tchaikovsky. Amazing work, if you have the time, the stamina and the sheer interest in such a Romantic immense journey. Great work in the medium, anyway.
> 
> Principe


Gilels-Kogan-Rostropovich live in the 50s. Absolutely extraordinary.


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## clavichorder

Speaking of Tchaikovsky----Taneyev wrote another great piano trio, one of his best works.


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## Taneyev

clavichorder said:


> Speaking of Tchaikovsky----Taneyev wrote another great piano trio, one of his best works.


Oborin-Oistrakh-Knushevitsky. Fantastic.


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## clavichorder

Odnoposoff said:


> Oborin-Oistrakh-Knushevitsky. Fantastic.


Thanks! Such a fresh beginning.


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## principe

Today, I revisited the "Unfinished" D major Piano Trio by Borodin. Very moving, truly romantic and musically commanding. Fascinating and absorbing listening!

Principe


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## Quartetfore

What label, and who are the players?


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## Prodromides

This Ermitage CD (ERM 413) features the Trio Matisse performing Piano Trios by a trio of composers:










It's not very frequent, for me anyway, to encounter an album program containing works by multiple composers - all of whom whose music I follow (De Pablo, Solbiati & Ives). Whomever selected these works has tastes coinciding with my own.


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## neoshredder

One word. Schubert.


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## principe

Quartetfore, it is a very fine SACD by Praga Digitals from the Complete Chamber Music by Borodin (in three volumes). The Trio is in the Volume III. The Kinsky Trio performs: A great group of young Czech musicians. The recording is superb.

Principe


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## Taneyev

Borodin piano trio: Gilels-Dmitry Tsyganov-Vasily Shirinsky (members of the Beethoven quartet). 1950.


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## Vaneyes

Piano Trios recs.

Haydn - Nos. 28 - 31, BAT (Philips)
Haydn - Nos. 12, 25, 27, 28 KLR Trio (Dorian)
Mozart - Complete, Barenboim/Zlotnikov/Znaider (EMI)
LvB - Ghost & Archduke, Istomin/Stern/Rose (Sony)
Schubert - Complete, BAT (Philips)
Mendelssohn - Complete, KLR Trio (VOX); Complete, Swiss Piano Trio (Audite)
Chopin - Ax/Frank/Ma (Sony)
Schumann - Complete, Gringolts/Kouzov/Laul (Onyx)
Brahms - Complete, Fontenay Trio (Apex)
Dvorak - Dumky, Nash Ens. (Virgin)
Debussy - Florestan Trio (Hyperion)
Saint-Saens - No. 1, Nash Ens. (Virgin)
Arnold - Nash Ens. (Hyperion)
Faure - Florestan Trio (Hyperion)
Rachmaninov - Complete, Borodin Trio (Chandos)
Ravel - Florestan Trio (Hyperion)
Schnittke - Lubotsky/Rostropovich/Schnittke (Sony)
Shostakovich - No. 2, Trio Bolzano (Millennium Classics)


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## Taneyev

I gess I'm the only archeologist between so many last recording fans.


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## elgar's ghost

Smetana's piano trio is also worth investigating.


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## principe

Tonight, I revisited the glorious f minor, op.65, Piano Trio by Dvorak. I believe it is his greatest Piano Trio and one of the monumental not only in the Romantic era but in the whole Classical realm. The recording I enjoyed thoroughly was with the superb Guarneri Trio, in the best label for Chamber Music, namely Praga Digitals, in very impressive SACD sound.
The slow movement, in A flat, is a poignant and quite emotional movement of the highest order.

Principe


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## HarpsichordConcerto

One of the very greatest of all piano trios ever written, and one of the greatest of all chamber works, came from Mozart. His piano trio in E major K542. As much as Haydn was pivotal in the development of this genre, Mozart excelled Haydn despite having written only half a dozen (or less counting original works, not based on arrangements). K542 using only three instruments was almost concerto like for the piano with full independent part for the cello (along with K502, K564); all three parts dealing with fully idiomatic trio texture, the first such bold textures at the time, and not matched by subsequent works by others. Mozart was the first to wholly liberate the cello from the pianist's left hand. It is perhaps not surprising that K542 deserves its special place in the whole of chamber music: it came during the summer of 1788, which was also the period when he finished the last three symphonies. He was well into the height of his instrumental nd orchestral creativity.


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## principe

Interesting post, HC. 
While I can agree on the importance of the E major Trio by Mozart, I equally love the C major K.548 too. A magnificent work with the most telling slow movement from all six of the Wunderkind.
However, Haydn's Piano Trios are not vastly important because of the cello line (which, however, is musically well placed always), but owing to the brilliant Piano writing, the perfect form and some of the most memorable melodies and harmonies. I particularly appreciate the A major, the F sharp minor, the last E flat major, the E major and the serious d minor, among the incredible wealth of his Trios. However, even the early ones are so brilliant in writing and musical ideas, like the one in c minor.
For the most eloquent role of the cello in the Piano Trios, I'm afraid one has to go to Beethoven at least (see the glorious op. 70 in D major, with this magnificent d minor middle movement (the "Ghost"), and, by all means, to the Piano Trios by Schubert, arguably the best in the genre.
Surprisingly, the Piano Trios by Hummel are some jewels to discover, with roots both on Mozart and (less) on Beethoven.

Principe


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## Hausmusik

Schumann's trios are terrible IMO--I almost literally cannot force myself to listen to them; I love his piano quartet and quintet though. 

Mozart's piano trios don't compare with his greatest chamber music. David Hurwitz thinks Dvorak's F Minor Trio (#3) is the cat's pajamas but it does little for me.

My very favorite piano trios include a couple by Haydn, Beethoven's Opus 1/3, the two Opus 70 trios, and the Archduke, both of Schubert's but especially the second, Mendelssohn's first, Ravel's, Dvorak's 4th, and all three of Brahms's. Maybe Shostakovich too. A new "discovery" for me is Faure's trio, really lovely.


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## trazom

Hausmusik said:


> Schumann's trios are terrible IMO--I almost literally cannot force myself to listen to them; I love his piano quartet and quintet though.
> 
> *Mozart's piano trios don't compare with his greatest chamber music*. David Hurwitz thinks Dvorak's F Minor Trio (#3) is the cat's pajamas but it does little for me.
> 
> My very favorite piano trios include a couple by Haydn, Beethoven's Opus 1/3, the two Opus 70 trios, and the Archduke, both of Schubert's but especially the second, Mendelssohn's first, Ravel's, Dvorak's 4th, and all three of Brahms's. Maybe Shostakovich too. A new "discovery" for me is Faure's trio, really lovely.


Except for the E major trio.


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## principe

Schumann's Trios are difficult to get into them, more or less like the last two of his three Violin Sonatas. However, in good performances, they are significant works for the medium. However, I agree: they are not for "easy" or everyday listening.
Which is the Mozart's "greatest Chamber Music"? For me, at least, (I can assure you I'm not the only one), I believe the last five or four of the six Piano Trios are some of the great marvels of Wolfgang and not only in Chamber Music.
Faure's Trio is a true masterpiece, deeply late Romantic. And quite French too. Ravel's sounds more accessible, but it is more difficult...Debussy's is almost crazy (despite written much earlier than the other two).
For new discoveries, try Rimsky-Korsakov's massive Piano Trio in c minor: a staggering 38 min. great work of the Russian Romantic tradition. On the other side of the spectrum, you may taste the first ever Piano Trios of C.P.E. Bach or Abel's.

Principe


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## tdc

I dismissed Schumann's trios initially too, but when I re-visited them later in closer detail I found them to be exquisite works. I'm particularly fond of the scintillating G minor trio.


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## Quartetfore

Schumanns Piano Trios are fine works, but without a question his Piano Quintet must rate the finest of all Chamber music.


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## principe

Let's leave the Piano Quintets for the appropriate thread for them. We still have to tackle the Piano Quartets (I prepare one for them, but I'm pretty busy now).
Anyway, there are still plenty of wonderful Piano Trios. The medium was far more popular for composers than Piano Quartets, Quintets or even Sextets.
By the way, have you ever explored E.T.A. Hoffmann's Piano Trio in E major? Or the vast production of George Onslow's Piano Trios? Or the wonderfully surprising Trios by Louis Spohr?

Principe


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## elgar's ghost

One more I have to add is Korngold's Piano Trio op. 1 in D major (1910). This astonishingly mature work was composed by a boy aged 12/13 - little wonder he knocked both Mahler and R. Strauss off their respective feet with his compositional precocity.


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## principe

Korngold's Trio is a revelatory one. His Chamber Music is generally very good indeed.
Raff's four Piano Trios are Romantic masterpieces of large scale. Unfortunately, there is, I trust, only one recording (but a very good one) on Arte Nova. Another neglected, underrated composer, extremely interesting in his Chamber Music, to say the least.

Principe


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## Quartetfore

The Raff Trios are on a CPO recording, this might be the same as the ArtNova recording.
I like the Korngold trio up to the last movement, It seems to me that he can`t end the work in a good way. Have you tried Koengolds string quartets? There is some very fine music there.


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## principe

Thanks for the info, Quartetfore. The CPO recording is a newer one. I have to chase the two volumes or one of them at least.
I love and appreciate most of Korngold's Chamber Music. His Violin Sonata in G, op.6 is a marvel of his youth. The String Sextet in D, op.10 is also a very interesting and emotionally powerful work. The Piano Quintet in E, op.15 is a glorious albeit complex work, while the String Quartets are some sort of solid and fine works. However, my soft spot is the very rarely performed (and recorded) Suite for 2 Violins, Cello and Piano left hand, op.23: a rather late work, very intimate, almost introvert, but still, emotionally so direct and telling. A great musician and composer, unduly underrated and overlooked.

Principe


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## Quartetfore

Agreed! Just a note on the CPO recordings. I don`t think that they are that well recorded. for my ears the violin is sort of distant. Don`t forget his wonderful Opera-- Toten Stadt. Great music!


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## principe

By all means! I've got it, in the old recording on RCA with the great Neblet and the newer one with Weigle (and Vogt), on OEHMS.

Principe


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## Xaltotun

This one is very much worth checking out:


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## Arsakes

Haydn, Dvorák, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Brahms and Sibelius are the best at Piano Trio. Schumann's haven't impressed me yet, unlike his trios, Dvorák's 4 piano trios always cheer me up 

This combination of one Piano, Cello and Violin is just too awesome not to consider.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Quartetfore said:


> Arensky, his first Trio (a beautiful work)


<3 <3 <3






Isn't this so cute? Purely capricious.


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## principe

And the slow movement of the First Piano Trio by Arensky is a marvel of musical and emotional poetry. A very interesting work, indeed.

Principe


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## Novelette

When I was in Germany in 2008, I chanced to come across the complete recordings of Haydn's Piano Trios by the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt. I came home excited to explore these wonderful works and learned to my chagrin that I could have purchased the exact same CD set here for half the price. Oh well!

Of these outstanding works, my favorites are:

Piano Trio in F Minor, Hob. XV: F1 [Not numbered]
Piano Trio #13 in C Minor, Hob. XV: 13 
Piano Trio #27 in C, Hob. XV: 27
And especially: Piano Trio #32 in G, Hob. XV: 32

I'm also partial to Tchaikovsky's Piano Trio in A Minor, Op. 50, "In Memory Of A Great Artist", and to Rachmaninoff's Trio Élégiaque #1 in G Minor.


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## KenOC

Novelette said:


> When I was in Germany in 2008, I chanced to come across the complete recordings of Haydn's Piano Trios by the Haydn Trio Eisenstadt.


This fine set is now available as a download for (wait for this) $18! I have compared it with the Beaux Arts Trio set and find it just as good -- some say better. What a great deal for a lot of excellent music!

http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-J-Piano...055556&sr=1-2&keywords=haydn+trios+eisenstadt


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