# Was Scrooge right?



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

What are your feelings towards the Christmas season? This is what Ebenezer Scrooge had to say about it: "What's Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in them through a round dozen of months presented dead against you?"

I am somewhat jadded and do not really enjoy the season like those around me.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I like Christmas just fine as long as I don't have to spend it with my family.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Every ritual holiday, including birthdays, new years, any others you may regularly observe, are annual reminders of one more year having passed. 

Many are then involuntarily inclined to review and retrospect the last year. The more cumulative years you have on the planet, the memory trips through the preceding years as well.

The rest, I'm certain, is a matter of personal temperament and outlook as to how that review goes.

 or :-/ or :-(


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Sometimes I feel that way, but then I watch _The Muppets' Christmas Carol_ and feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

_It's in the singing of a street corner choir
It's going home and getting warm by the fire
It's true, wherever you find love it feels like Christmas

A cup of kindess that we share with another
A sweet reunion with a friend or a brother
In all the places you find love it feels like Christmas

It is the season of the heart
A special time of caring
The ways of love made clear
It is the season of the sprit
The message if we hear it
Is make it last all year
_


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I think Scrooge's words were describing his clerk's poverty rather than his own situation - he couldn't understand how Cratchit could wring every last drop of joy from xmas despite being poor (the poverty obviously exacerbated by the low salary Scrooge pays him). However, I have to giggle when Scrooge equates giving Cratchit the xmas day off as akin to having his 'pocket picked every 25th December'.

For my part, I don't mind others enjoying it but I am fed up with the media/retail overkill which seems to start even before Hallowe'en these days. I prefer to steer clear of the hullaballoo, even to the point of staying in on both xmas and new year's eves, something I would never have done when I was a little younger and had more of an extroverted nature. At least it means I can avoid all the usual bloody xmas songs that seem to be on repeat play every which way you turn. Another thing that tees me off are those people who see fit to festoon every inch of the outside of their property with lights, complete with santas, sleighs, bells and whatever else - I think that is in very dubious taste. 

In addition, I never put up decorations of any kind, I have no tree and I'm not that keen on turkey. In fact, I had chicken madras last year. I also don't encourage callers so carol singers and other scroungers are likely to be greeted with a saucepan of hot fat (OK, I lied about the carol singers bit but I still prefer to be left alone).

Merry Christmas.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

elgars ghost said:


> I think Scrooge's words were describing his clerk's poverty rather than his own situation - he couldn't understand how Cratchit could wring every last drop of joy from xmas despite being poor (the poverty obviously exacerbated by the low salary Scrooge pays him). However, I have to giggle when Scrooge equates giving Cratchit the xmas day off as akin to having his 'pocket picked every 25th December'.
> 
> For my part, I don't mind others enjoying it but I am fed up with the media/retail overkill which seems to start even before Hallowe'en these days. I prefer to steer clear of the hullaballoo, even to the point of staying in on both xmas and new year's eves, something I would never have done when I was a little younger and had more of an extroverted nature. At least it means I can avoid all the usual bloody xmas songs that seem to be on repeat play every which way you turn. Another thing that tees me off are those people who see fit to festoon every inch of the outside of their property with lights, complete with santas, sleighs, bells and whatever else - I think that is in very dubious taste.
> 
> ...


Good Lord,you are the very reincarnation of Scrooge himself!!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I do think there is some excessive pressure on having a certain type of holiday every year and it's easy to get caught up in the hustle of commercialism. That said, the holiday is what you make of it. If someone doesn't like the standard holiday traditions, maybe re-inventing them can make them special.

I do love the holiday season. I have a lot of good memories of Christmas with my family. That said, my Christmas holiday is in the middle of a transition. Now that my parents are divorced, and my son is two and a half and starting to get old enough for all the Santa stuff, it's time for us to stop having the meat of the holiday centered around our families' schedules downstate. This will be our last year traveling on Christmas Day. Starting next year, Christmas Day will me in my own home. My husband and I look forward to playing Christmas music on the piano, and baking cookies with the kids and such.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

moody said:


> Good Lord,you are the very reincarnation of Scrooge himself!!


I prefer to think of myself as his more amenable equivalent!


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I don't celebrate holidays; I only eat the food!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Scrooge would love modern christmas. While of course still hating the general merriment and the criminally profligate waste of allowing, not one but, several  days off, he would enjoy much of the other aspects. The debt it plunges people into, the mass of cheap disposable crap they are persuaded buy, which i'm sure he'd find a way to sell.

Scrooge was forced to acknowledge christmas by guilt and christian ethics, today Scrooge's own commercial ethics force a season, which is only one day, upon us. Scrooge would be proud, but still angry.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Let's see. It's the start of the bleakest, coldest part of the year, where trees and plants are dormant, but they've actually got people _looking forward_ to this happening. Plus, there are so many charitable activities which occur naturally during this season, and singing in the streets is considered normal. I think the holiday season is a stroke of genius.

Personally, I'm fortunate to have a family which is pretty close, so Christmas is a great time for me. Everybody takes time off work, gathers together, gives to each other, then shares a meal afterwards, and thinks nothing of all the effort involved for the joy it brings.

Of course, If I had my druthers, I'd stop the gift-giving at 18 years of age. That's my only Scrooge-iness.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I like it all. Excess is good. 

View attachment 10878


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I've loved Christmas all my life. Darkness, snow, silence, sauna, a walk in the forest, smells of food, candles, blankets, classical music, family members (I love my family)... OK, this is starting to sound nauseatingly positive... but that's how I actually do feel about Christmas.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Depends why you celebrate Christmas... is it about the presents? the food? the people? If any of these things are somehow sub-par, would that ruin your Christmas? I admit having fighting in my family around Christmas is really painful, it's happened before for me, but to treat all the extra stuff around Christmas as simply that, just extra, you'll feel differently about. Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Christ for me and most of my family. The presents, food, people, and all the other traditions are then made _doubly _good. The music that has come to be associated with Christmas for me is especially dear, we listen to a lot of traditional Swedish and Finnish carols and such in December.

So, I'm not surprised that most feel they way they do about Christmas nowadays: when you take out the original meaning of it, what's left but a bunch of fluff?

So, join me in celebrating the birth of Christ if you like!


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

drpraetorus said:


> *Was Scrooge right?*


Yes.

Which is to say...

in the end, he was.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

drpraetorus said:


> What are your feelings towards the Christmas season? I am somewhat jaded and do not really enjoy the season like those around me.


I'm very wary around the Holidays, especially on-line. Last year I experienced a six-month barrage of on-line attacks in that "other" forum, starting in August 2011, and which finally "peaked" during the holidays around December 2011, then culminated with my being baited and tormented, and to my surprise, being banned from that forum.

The holidays have lost their charm for me, totally.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Christmas is a joyous time because it's all about looking forward to spring and the new crops. In my neighborhood we treat it as a fertility festival, so everybody has a grand time!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

^ Being Canadian, I don't tend to thing of Christmas as a harbinger of spring. That's what Easter is supposed to be for, but even it doesn't always do its job.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I think one problem with all the many things horribly wrong about today's attitude is that the festival should _start_ on Christmas, rather than end on it, or even on Christmas eve as it effectively does. We go round wishing people a merry Christmas from November, decorate the streets from September, but on Boxing Day feel like everything is over (sometimes even on Christmas day itself!). Anyway, commercialization may be just that, but at least it means it's still a big deal in society, so those of us who love Christmas should not be entirely negative about all the fuss about it, for all its faults!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> So, join me in celebrating the birth of Christ if you like!


Join you I will!


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

I celebrate Christmas by going to church on Christmas Day. I don't do that Christmas Eve stuff; that's way too much of a "show" for me.
I send cards to my extended family, but don't do much in the way of decorating or anything special, and I don't buy gifts, as I tend to buy and give things to my family all year 'round. Why wait for an occasion? I like picking a charity to make a donation to in honor of the holiday, and I do spend some time researching for an organization that has a unique and worthy mission.

When people inevitably ask, "Are you ready for Christmas?" I can say YES. Advent has helped me prepare.


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

I like the evergreen tree. Maybe because it's somewhat ironic. It was used by pagans in the old times to symbolize eternal life (and also being a fallic symbol) and now it's used in a christian context. 

But overall, it's not a holiday I can say I care about much. They only positive thing about it for me is the season, which I enjoy very much and the sometimes pleasant family gathering. I liked the presents when I was younger, I don't care for them now.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Mōdraniht, Yule, Disting, Saturnalia. 
Man for as long as history and pre-history can determine has celebrated at this time
It was done to herald the return of the sun, especially in northern europe, hence its influence in Christianity 
The meaning has been overtaken with rampant consumerism within the last century.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Christmas is a joyous time because it's all about looking forward to spring and the new crops. In my neighborhood we treat it as a fertility festival, so everybody has a grand time!


Do you do rain dances as well?


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)

Scrooge was right given the current global crisis, increasing food and fuel prices, unemployment, and increasing debt.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

moody said:


> Do you do rain dances as well?


Not really, but the culminating New Years Eve sacrifice is supposed to have that effect. Later in the year of course!


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Is Scrooge as famous/notorious in non english speaking countries as he is in the anglophone world?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> Join you I will!


I don't think anyone here is questioning the sacred nature of Christmas, but are complaining about its effect on human behavior.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

drpraetorus said:


> Is Scrooge as famous/notorious in non english speaking countries as he is in the anglophone world?


In my part of the world (Eastern Europe) this Scrooge seems to be much more famous:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> I don't think anyone here is questioning the sacred nature of Christmas, but are complaining about its effect on human behavior.


True. But I've seen my friends in my church use this season as an opportunity to do more for others. This month they've adopted a nursing home and sent gifts to each member, they're caroling at shut-ins' houses, a group has formed a charity to help people in need with urgent expenses (it operates year-round, but they're ramping up more for this season), and our Christmas concert will wrap up with a fundraiser for someone undergoing cancer treatment.

Just from what I've been seeing, though this season may bring out the worst in some, it brings out the best in others.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Manxfeeder said:


> they're caroling at shut-ins' houses


I never understood that purpose of that. Shut-ins are shut-ins because they don't like other people much, right?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I think they're just people who aren't well enough to get out of their homes.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> True. But I've seen my friends in my church use this season as an opportunity to do more for others. This month they've adopted a nursing home and sent gifts to each member, they're caroling at shut-ins' houses, a group has formed a charity to help people in need with urgent expenses (it operates year-round, but they're ramping up more for this season), and our Christmas concert will wrap up with a fundraiser for someone undergoing cancer treatment.
> 
> Just from what I've been seeing, though this season may bring out the worst in some, it brings out the best in others.


That's good, Manxy. Where's my present? I want a bottle of good whiskey.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> I never understood that purpose of that. Shut-ins are shut-ins because they don't like other people much, right?





KenOC said:


> I think they're just people who aren't well enough to get out of their homes.


Yeah, there's this weird thing called "getting old"....bummer, man.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> Yeah, there's this weird thing called "getting old"....bummer, man.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Tell me about it...


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> I never understood that purpose of that. Shut-ins are shut-ins because they don't like other people much, right?


My wife and I have been involved in these caroling sessions for people who weren't able to leave their houses, but I never knew what it meant for those people until last year, when my wife broke her ankle in three places. Suddenly, she was the shut-in.

I can't describe how it felt to have our living room filled with choir members singing just for her. And at the end, the choir director gave me a knowing look, and he had them sing for me my favorite Christmas carol, Es ist ein Ros entsprungen. That act of kindness was greater to us than anything that could be wrapped in a box with a bow.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> That's good, Manxy. Where's my present? I want a bottle of good whiskey.


We have the Jack Daniels distillery a couple hours down the road. You want some?


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

drpraetorus said:


> Is Scrooge as famous/notorious in non english speaking countries as he is in the anglophone world?


Not around here... Dickens is almost unknown and even Shakespeare is not that known. I'm so jealous to all those teenagers in American films who get to act in a Shakespeare play in high school; I would have liked that.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I certainly feel scroogish today. Yesterday was Beethoven's birthday and our local classical station played Christmas music all day.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> We have the Jack Daniels distillery a couple hours down the road. You want some?


No, that was a joke. I'm a non-drinker.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> No, that was a joke. I'm a non-drinker.


Sorry I didn't catch that. I'm not a drinker, either.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I'll have it if no one wants it. Err disregard whatever I said about christmas earlier, I was probably drunk.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't see it like scrooge but nor do I see it with rose tinted glasses. Many people do feel lonely at Christmas. & I think its true, many do feel antagonised by those family gatherings. It can get ugly esp. with too much booze and resentments coming back from the past. People get very emotional at Christmas. It all kind of comes out. So I can understand how many people kind of dread this time of the year, definitely.

So its this:



Manxfeeder said:


> ...
> Just from what I've been seeing, though this season may bring out the worst in some, it brings out the best in others.


For me, Christmas has varied. I've had some good ones and some bad ones and in between. This year is shaping up to be better than others.

I do also tend to go to church at this time, for contemplation, fellowship and the music. & remember with the presents, its the thought that counts, not necessarily the price tag.

The best thing for me about the season is the sweets, esp. baked things. Bring on the fruit mince pies and Christmas cake! Delicious stuff.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

drpraetorus said:


> What are your feelings towards the Christmas season? This is what Ebenezer Scrooge had to say about it: "What's Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in them through a round dozen of months presented dead against you?"
> 
> I am somewhat jadded and do not really enjoy the season like those around me.


Hear, hear! :clap:


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

One of the things I really dislike about the christmas season not being able to escape the seasonal music. It is litteraly everywhere. It usually falls into two categories. People, some actually artists, trying to find something new in the traditional songs or new songs trying to muscle their way into the traditional cannon. I guess I should add a third category, the Anything for a Buck category. This includes the contractual obligation album done by "singers" aho really don't care to but the contract says they have too. Some of the WORST christmas music comes from them. Whatever the category, it is inescapable this time of the year. It is usually insipid, hackneed and overly sentimental. 

The absolute worst christmas song to come along in the past half century is The Little Drummerboy. It is the posterchild for insipid, hackneed and overly sentimental. And EVERYBODY thinks they need to do their version of it. Really now, we have Mary, a new mother aho has probably been having birth pains while riding on that donkey in all the pictures. She has given birth in a stable, with all the attendant animal smells, she's hungry and tired. Suddenly she has to entertain guests, who she has never met and out of the crowd steps Ringo Star and he wants to play a drum solo. She probably just finished nursing Jesus, changed his swadling clothes, laid him in the manger to sleep and now Buddy Rich wants to play a gig? What next? The shepherds all break out thier axes and have a go at Ionization by Varese?

Yeah, Mary is going to smile at that. Oye!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

drpraetorus said:


> The absolute worst christmas song to come along in the past half century is The Little Drummerboy. It is the posterchild for insipid, hackneed and overly sentimental. And EVERYBODY thinks they need to do their version of it.


Brotha, you have my vote on that.  Humbug!


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## Ralfy (Jul 19, 2010)

I read that it's also one of the most popular, including this version:






For some strange reason, though, when I watch it, I am reminded of doom, prob. because of the Cold War era, concerns over environmental destruction, overpopulation, etc. It also helps when I keep being reminded by some that we're now back in the 1970s, if not the 1930s.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

By the way, the Little Dummer Boy ( see what I did there? ) fit well in the Bolero rhythm. 

So for what it's worth Merry Christmas, Nadolig Llawen, Nollaig Shona, hyvää joulua, Glædelig jul, Gelukkig kerstfeest, Joyeux Noël, Frohe Weihnachten, Buon Natale, God jul, Wesołych Świąt, ¡Feliz Navidad, Mutlu Noeller, Boldog Karácsonyt, Veselé Vánoce, Lʻbʻdyq nytl, Feliĉa Kristnasko. 

Happy Chanukah, Ẕwprydn kʼanʼaqʼa, צופרידן כאַנאַקאַ

Happy Kwaanza

And a Good Festivus for the Rest of Us.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

drpraetorus said:


> One of the things I really dislike about the christmas season not being able to escape the seasonal music. It is litteraly everywhere. It usually falls into two categories. People, some actually artists, trying to find something new in the traditional songs or new songs trying to muscle their way into the traditional cannon. I guess I should add a third category, the Anything for a Buck category. This includes the contractual obligation album done by "singers" aho really don't care to but the contract says they have too. Some of the WORST christmas music comes from them. Whatever the category, it is inescapable this time of the year. It is usually insipid, hackneed and overly sentimental.
> 
> The absolute worst christmas song to come along in the past half century is The Little Drummerboy. It is the posterchild for insipid, hackneed and overly sentimental. And EVERYBODY thinks they need to do their version of it. Really now, we have Mary, a new mother aho has probably been having birth pains while riding on that donkey in all the pictures. She has given birth in a stable, with all the attendant animal smells, she's hungry and tired. Suddenly she has to entertain guests, who she has never met and out of the crowd steps Ringo Star and he wants to play a drum solo. She probably just finished nursing Jesus, changed his swadling clothes, laid him in the manger to sleep and now Buddy Rich wants to play a gig? What next? The shepherds all break out thier axes and have a go at Ionization by Varese?
> 
> Yeah, Mary is going to smile at that. Oye!


I'd so take Mary's place in that crappy situation to get a performance of Ionization AND a Ringo solo.... wait a minute. Ringo doesn't like to play solos! Nice try Dr. Praetorus


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Bah Humbug!
JK i like positive vibrations...


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