# Freemasonry



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Any idea what the **** it's all about? I just read this BBC article, and it all sounds rather pointless to me. Also quite strange that it's a "non-religious organisation" where the "prime qualification for admission ... is a belief in a supreme being."

My conspiracy theory is that it's where homophobic men go to have sex with other men.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Any idea what the **** it's all about? I just read this BBC article, and it all sounds rather pointless to me. Also quite strange that it's a "non-religious organisation" where the "prime qualification for admission ... is a belief in a supreme being."
> 
> My conspiracy theory is that it's where homophobic men go to have sex with other men.


It's 'non-religious' because it is neither Catholic nor Lutheran, nor 'anti' either of them. That specification was intended to deter those organizations from stepping on it hard. It worked, at least well enough for the organization to survive.

There is a female sub-division of the Masons; the place 'where homophobic men go to have sex with other men' is prison, and that is mostly involuntary.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Polednice said:


> My conspiracy theory is that it's where homophobic men go to have sex with other men.


No, no, no! They just do circle jerks.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> It's 'non-religious' because it is neither Catholic nor Lutheran, nor 'anti' either of them.


Although that's mostly true in parts of the *UK* it's linked to the "Orange Order". I'm not from the *UK* and had not heard of this before moving here. Despite having *Dutch* relatives I might add which is where this is all meant to have originated from.

A few years ago these orange chaps caused major problems over in *Northern Ireland*. There was a huge riot and a policeman was killed it made the national news as hence I know about it and am sharing this info with you.

I do not know if they are really *Freemasons* or if they just think they are. Racism/sectarianism tends to be born out of stupidly and ignorance. Either way *Freemasonry* is most likely a club for those white men who got kicked out of the *Boy-Scouts*.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Lenfer said:


> [...]
> Either way *Freemasonry* is most likely a club for those white men who got kicked out of the *Boy-Scouts*.


A remarkably ill-considered statement. I hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the butt.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Philip said:


> No, no, no! They just do circle jerks.


...to this music:

Sibelius: Marche Funèbre


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Hahahahahah, that's hilarious!


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Freemasons won't actually tell you what it's all about. (My late Dad was one). That said, in the town where I grew up, on the border between Saskatchewan and North Dakota, Masonry (and its female order, the Eastern Star), mainly seemed to be a way for Canadians and Americans to socialize, discuss differences, and resolve disputes.

Mozart, in his own time, was active as a Freemason.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

its like rubble bricks and mortar. builders get charged to legally dispose of it, so if you ask them they will give it to you for free.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

LordBlackudder said:


> its like rubble bricks and mortar. builders get charged to legally dispose of it, so if you ask them they will give it to you for free.


Your sarcasm is underrated.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

I have a friend who is a freemason; he graduated from my college last year and is now studying choral conducting at Cambridge. He has his charming minor eccentricities (including passions for Rameau, expensive scotch, and cats), but no particularly cultish qualities, and he is not homophobic. I don't know "what it's all about" either. He won't tell me.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

This is the thing I don't get - in all the descriptions we've heard, it sounds like a totally innocuous means of social gatherings. My theory has changed. These are all nutcases and mental people who want a sense of community with fellow crackpots, and they have decided to shroud their society for the deranged in mystery. We've been fooled!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Dunno if 'we' have been fooled, but you certainly are... I mean have been.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Mozart took Freemasonry seriously enough to the point of writing a fair amount of music for the society, and the ritualistic backdrop of The Magic Flute may have alluded to it but did he have a more ulterior motive for joining - the hope of winning the friendship of powerful and influential people who could further his career (and maybe help his bank balance)?


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> A remarkably ill-considered statement. I hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the butt.


It was meant in jest *Hilly* hence the presence of the cheeky smiley. 

They really should introduce a serious face smiley then there can be no confusion. :tiphat:

*Freemasonry* today is not the same as in historical times such as *Mozart*'s time. So it's unfair to compare the two. Back then it was about changing society for as they saw it the better. It was similar to "revolutionary" politics such as *Communism*, *Anarchism* etc.

In that they tried to change the way society worked. It was very cloak and dagger as you could be jailed or even put to death for being a *Freemason*. Many of the "*Founding Fathers*" were *Freemasons* and this is why there is such a strong presence in the *US* today.

I doubt any *Freemasons* today still plot in the way they did then however it is likely that current *Freemasons* indulge in the rituals that have been passed down as they may feel it is part of their heritage either real or imaginary.

The *Nazis* killed *Freemasons* across the *Third Reich* right up until the end of *WWII*. Even today in some countries you cannot fill certain jobs in government or the military if you are openly a *Freemason*. I'm not sure why although I suspect that it is because people fear a *Freemason*'s loyalty is to the *Masons* first everything else second.

I doubt there is anything sinister about them at all but they like to perpetuate their own myths and legends for fun.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I'd like to be a Freemason.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

My Father was a Freemason ... he took certain 'secrets' to his grave and never shared what transpired at lodge meetings - it was not a secret society, rather a society with secrets to be shared only with members of that organization.

There are many corporations and organizations (other than the Masons) which have "secrets" that can only be shared internally ... I worked for one for 25 years and will take those "secrets" to my grave - that or spend the rest of my life in Federal Prison (Leavenworth) which certainly doesn't sound appealing to me.

As to any religious affiliation Wikipedia has information on that. In part it reads:


Wikipedia said:


> However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation


It's really not that much different from other organizations like the B.P.O.E., Scottish Rite, Shriners, etc. All of which support their local charitable organizations and generally do lots of good for all.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Krummhorn said:


> There are many corporations and organizations (other than the Masons) which have "secrets" that can only be shared internally ... I worked for one for 25 years and will take those "secrets" to my grave - that or spend the rest of my life in Federal Prison (Leavenworth) which certainly doesn't sound appealing to me.


Don't worry, KH. You can trust us.

So are we going to do this the easy way or the hard way?


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

science said:


> I'd like to be a Freemason.


You could become one. (You have the right personality for it). You don't need to be invited--you can apply to join a lodge. They do some background checks and ask for references, to make sure that you're a man of integrity. It helps if they already know you, but that isn't a prerequisite.

I had the chance to become a Mason, and I'm sure I would have, if I hadn't left my home town to go to university. The Masons were a big part of the social fabric (and probably still are). The ones I knew were as liberal and tolerant as you could reasonably expect in a small town.

The secrets are mainly "signs" by which Masons could verify each others' identity. Historically this was of practical value, to prevent Freemasonry from being infiltrated during times of persecution. These days it's mainly symbolic, and it helps maintain the mystique. My father, in an unguarded moment, once showed me the secret handshake of his lodge, on condition that I never reveal it to anybody. He would have liked me to become a Mason.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think Freemasonry is a very broad topic, almost like asking people what do you think of politicians? At the lower levels of politics you have all sorts of normal people doing normal things, working towards positive goals etc. At the higher levels however, for different reasons the characters probably get a little sketchy.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Here's a list of composers who were Freemasons:

Thomas Arne
Johann Christian Bach
Franz Liszt (Yay! I just _knew_ he would be!)
Leopold Mozart
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (as already mentioned)
Jean Sibelius (who wrote some songs for his fellow Masons to sing)
John Philip Sousa
Arthur Sullivan

I would have thought Erik Satie might be on the list, but sadly, he isn't. I compiled it from Wikipedia's list of prominent Freemasons:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons*

(Regarding homosexuality, Oscar Wilde is on the list).


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Here's a list of composers who were Freemasons:
> 
> Thomas Arne
> Johann Christian Bach
> ...


And Haydn, and Beethoven. (Right? I'm pretty sure about Beethoven because there's a whole essay on it in Maynard Solomon's _Late Beethoven._ Less sure about Haydn, but I feel like I read it somewhere.)


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Tolstoy's book War and Peace talks about Freemasonry. Very clearly it's a moralistic ideology where the members of the group claim to have special immunity to immorality, but it's not true. As for the main character in the book who becomes a mason, it does him no good, because the teachings don't inspire true goodness in him, and he continues doing the same sinful acts again and again. What _does _inspire true goodness in him... that's for you all to find out by reading for yourself.  Won't find out until like page 1200, but whatever, it's worth it. :lol:


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

/\ I read an abridged version of War and Piece a long time ago (over 50 years). I vaguely recall reading in a 'forenote' that the Masonic doings were a large part of the excised material. 

I don't recall the 'true goodness' part, but am willing to assume that Zoroaster wasn't credited.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Meaghan said:


> And Haydn, and Beethoven. (Right? I'm pretty sure about Beethoven because there's a whole essay on it in Maynard Solomon's _Late Beethoven._ Less sure about Haydn, but I feel like I read it somewhere.)


Neither of them is on Wikipedia's list. I think this might be because there's no proof, in the form of surviving records of them belonging to a particular lodge. However, scholarly opinion seems to be that Beethoven was a Freemason. I'm not sure about Haydn.


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## RedRaider (Jan 16, 2021)

... ... ...


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

RedRaider said:


> ... ... ...


Why did you necro a thread that is almost a decade old?



Lenfer said:


> Although that's mostly true in parts of the *UK* it's linked to the "Orange Order". I'm not from the *UK* and had not heard of this before moving here. Despite having *Dutch* relatives I might add which is where this is all meant to have originated from.
> 
> A few years ago these orange chaps caused major problems over in *Northern Ireland*. There was a huge riot and a policeman was killed it made the national news as hence I know about it and am sharing this info with you.
> 
> I do not know if they are really *Freemasons* or if they just think they are. Racism/sectarianism tends to be born out of stupidly and ignorance. Either way *Freemasonry* is most likely a club for those white men who got kicked out of the *Boy-Scouts*.


Is that Audrey Hepburm as your avatar? It's such a pretty picture I just love her so much.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Nothing is ''by accident'', me thinks, when it comes to this topic...Old threads are the best...lol
Idk much about masonry but from what I know you have to have some ''distinction'' in society to join...I am, like science, tempted by their secrets and rites...


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

aren't the Freemasons the deep state behind the deep state?


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

Jacck said:


> aren't the Freemasons the deep state behind the deep state?


Be careful not to gaze too deeply; For if thou gaze long into the Deep State, the Deep State will also gaze into thee...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I want to belong to the Accademia dei Lincei, the Academy of the Lynx-Eyed. Any society that Galileo Galilei was a prominent member of is one I want to join. My cat is a member, and will nominate me.


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> I want to belong to the Accademia dei Lincei, the Academy of the Lynx-Eyed. Any society that Galileo Galilei was a prominent member of is one I want to join. My cat is a member, and will nominate me.


Have you read "Magia Naturalis" ?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ad Astra said:


> Have you read "Magia Naturalis" ?


No, but I see it is about "natural magic". As Strange Magic, I will compare and contrast. Thanks for the tip!


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> No, but I see it is about "natural magic". As Strange Magic, I will compare and contrast. Thanks for the tip!


It inspired the founding of the Lynx-Eyed if I remember correctly. Always happy to help I'm sure I have a pdf somewhere the work is public domain so it's legal to share.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Fsharpmajor said:


> I would have thought Erik Satie might be on the list, but sadly, he isn't. I compiled it from Wikipedia's list of prominent Freemasons:*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons*


Early on Satie was a Rosicrucian, a group led in Paris by Joseph (Sar) Peladan. But I think the composer's leanings towards absurdity and Dada might have been incompatible.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Krummhorn said:


> My Father was a Freemason ... he took certain 'secrets' to his grave and never shared what transpired at lodge meetings - it was not a secret society, rather a society with secrets to be shared only with members of that organization.
> 
> There are many corporations and organizations (other than the Masons) which have "secrets" that can only be shared internally ... I worked for one for 25 years and will take those "secrets" to my grave - that or spend the rest of my life in Federal Prison (Leavenworth) which certainly doesn't sound appealing to me.
> 
> ...


I thought the Shriners were a higher level within the Freemasons, no?


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## Ad Astra (Aug 10, 2020)

SixFootScowl said:


> I thought the Shriners were a higher level within the Freemasons, no?


I asked my other half in passing he says they are their own Masonic Order. Not all Masons belong to the same order as far as I know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_bodies


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