# Round Two: Non piangere Liu. Bjorrling, Corelli, Carreras



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

These three are of varying lengths. The first, Bjorling, ends where we are to judge this aria, at good length for a three candidate round. The rest is gorgeous gorgeous but aside from the final Turandot he does not sing in the last two minutes.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Björling’s is too somnolent for me, as beautifully as he sings; I’ve never been a fan of his sound. I’ve always loved Carreras - his career has interesting parallels with di Stefano’s, and Calaf is a size or two too large for his sweet lyric tenor, he pushes his voice to be heard among the rest of the cast. But this is a live performance, so the distance from the microphones might have a hand in the drowning out.
Corelli (sigh) - I just love him; he is the hero personified. Yes, I know all of the caveats people bring up. I just don’t care.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Björling’s is too somnolent for me, as beautifully as he sings; I’ve never been a fan of his sound. I’ve always loved Carreras - his career has interesting parallels with di Stefano’s, but Calaf is a size or two too large for his sweet lyric tenor, he pushes his voice to be heard among the rest of the cast. But this is a live performance, so the distance from the microphones might have a hand in the drowning out.
> Corelli (sigh) - I just love him; he is the hero personified. Yes, I know all of the caveats people bring up. I just don’t care.


I normally love Bjorling but not so much here. I totally agree with you on the other two.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

None of these gives me much to either praise or pan - I like them all well enough, but none excites me - and I really don't know who to choose. Maybe I just don't care much about the aria, which, given the ignoble cipher who is Calaf, only needs to be sung beautifully and sympathetically and is over before you know it. But since Calaf is one of the few roles in which I enjoy Corelli, I guess I'll give him the prize this time. He works up a little more fervor than Bjorling, whose typical pure line I do enjoy nonetheless.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I agree with Woodduck that they all do well enough. I love the silvery beauty of Bjoerling's voice, but he's a little cool. Corelli brings a bit more passion to the piece and, for once, doesn't indulge in those ghastly slides and sobs that often put me off. Carreras is probably less well endowed than either, but there is something I like about him and his voice was in good shape at this time. I probably should vote for Corelli, who wil probaby win by a landslide, but I'm going to give it to Carreras, simply because I like him and because I hear a touching sincerity that I don't get from the other two.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Corelli, for me.

Bjorling has lovely tone and an excellent line but too slow here. Carreras sounds fine with clear diction: the words mean more to him.

Corelli is just more interesting, to me: exciting sound, sustains the tension and it shows off his voice to its best effect.


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## ShaunRoche (Jun 14, 2013)

Despite his obvious speech impediment, Corelli for me, not diminishing JB or JC but I'd put them FC. JC, JB.
None of them hold a candle to the greatest Calaf I've heard and that has to be Pavarotti in the Sutherland/Mehta Decca recording.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Oh glory me! You give this tenor lover the 3 top singers of their time and ask me to pick them apart?
Well, for starters: I know when I get up there to vote the line for Corelli will be yea long, and no wonder -- he's got the goods.
BUT!
Putting the sweet and always beautiful voice of Carerras aside, who sang with softness and warmth, the one who immediately grabbed me from the first 3 words was Jussi. His singing to me is pure and magical and simply perfect for this aria. That last high note was exquisite.
Jussi for me, as I once again sit in my own little corner.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ShaunRoche said:


> Despite his obvious speech impediment, Corelli for me, not diminishing JB or JC but I'd put them FC. JC, JB.
> None of them hold a candle to the greatest Calaf I've heard and that has to be Pavarotti in the Sutherland/Mehta Decca recording.


He's in the Nessun Dorma contest.It will be a much bigger contest with some heavy hitters. Pav is of course fabulous.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I agree with Woodduck that they all do well enough. I love the silvery beauty of Bjoerling's voice, but he's a little cool. Corelli brings a bit more passion to the piece and, for once, doesn't indulge in those ghastly slides and sobs that often put me off. Carreras is probably less well endowed than either, but there is something I like about him and his voice was in good shape at this time. I probably should vote for Corelli, who wil probaby win by a landslide, but I'm going to give it to Carreras, simply because I like him and because I hear a touching sincerity that I don't get from the other two.


(Bjorling ... "a little cool") - OK, fair enough, and "cool" is just ONE term, used, when trying to characterize the entire "Bjorling sound". As a member of the Bjorling Society (and the internet arm - bjorling2/groups io) I can tell you that even those who were fortunate to attend one of his last concerts are still trying to CHARACTERIZE the Bjorling way, in so many words, including timbre, delivery, projection, etc. ... To be honest, I like the black-and-white video (on YouTube) of Corelli, who sings a truly STRONG and yet, straightforward, rendition. ... We should, also, listen to Carreras, due to your recommendation - OK?


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

nina foresti said:


> Oh glory me! You give this tenor lover the 3 top singers of their time and ask me to pick them apart?
> Well, for starters: I know when I get up there to vote the line for Corelli will be yea long, and no wonder -- he's got the goods.
> BUT!
> Putting the sweet and always beautiful voice of Carerras aside, who sang with softness and warmth, the one who immediately grabbed me from the first 3 words was Jussi. His singing to me is pure and magical and simply perfect for this aria. That last high note was exquisite.
> Jussi for me, as I once again sit in my own little corner.


Nina - ("... grabbed me ...") - Yep, that's what the Bjorling voice could do, even to the "uninitiated" to classical voice ... and count me as one of them (in 1985, when I first listened to he in "Madame Butterfly"). The early Pavarotti was wonderful, and Corelli left a fine legacy, plus Carreras had HIS day ... but the Swede has transcended virtually all others ... unless someone would like to argue/debate. Thank you!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

89Koechel said:


> (Bjorling ... "a little cool") - OK, fair enough, and "cool" is just ONE term, used, when trying to characterize the entire "Bjorling sound". As a member of the Bjorling Society (and the internet arm - bjorling2/groups io) I can tell you that even those who were fortunate to attend one of his last concerts are still trying to CHARACTERIZE the Bjorling way, in so many words, including timbre, delivery, projection, etc. ... To be honest, I like the black-and-white video (on YouTube) of Corelli, who sings a truly STRONG and yet, straightforward, rendition. ... We should, also, listen to Carreras, due to your recommendation - OK?


I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I adore Bjoerling and he is one of my top five tenors. I just thought that,_ in this aria _he was a little cool compared to Corelli and Carreras. I capitulate to the voice nonetheless. To be honest, I thought they all did a pretty good job in a piece that doesn't really stretch them vocally that much. Most of its beauty lies in the orchestration. I could have voted for any one of them, but I still maintain Carreras's version was the most heartfelt, even if he was the least vocally endowed.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The Bjorling comes from what I think was his last complete recorded role, on the Leinsdorf _Turandot_ with Nilsson, Tebaldi and Tozzi. He might or might not have been considering taking on Calaf in the opera house; I do know that he was a little nervous about singing with Nilsson, probably because she was louder than he was, but that was no problem in the recording studio, especially in 1959 when orchestra-heavy engineering was fashionable at RCA and Decca and big voices weren't allowed to make their full impact. That recording remains a favorite of mine largely because of Bjorling, less a natural for the part than Corelli but nonetheless singing the whole role beautifully. In the context of the entire opera his performance doesn't strike me as cool, but there's no question that his Nordic warmth isn't quite the same thing as Italian heat. There's usually a kernel of truth to stereotypes.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Cut me to the quick Woodduck, who I consider to be the Big Mahaf of this forum and who I learn reams of stuff from. I listened with different ears from you this time with Jussi and found his rendition sublime. Somehow I thought you might too.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Cut me to the quick Woodduck, who I consider to be the Big Mahaf of this forum and who I learn reams of stuff from. I listened with different ears from you this time with Jussi and found his rendition sublime. Somehow I thought you might too.


Bjorling is _always_ sublime! With that voice and impeccable taste he could make Betty Crocker's book of dessert recipes sound sublime. Calaf isn't sublime, but no matter. _Turandot_ isn't an opera we turn to for philosophical profundity or psychological subtleties.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Bjorling is _always_ sublime! With that voice and impeccable taste he could make Betty Crocker's book of dessert recipes sound sublime. Calaf isn't sublime, but no matter. _Turandot_ isn't an opera we turn to for philosophical profundity or psychological subtleties.





Woodduck said:


> Bjorling is _always_ sublime! With that voice and impeccable taste he could make Betty Crocker's book of dessert recipes sound sublime. Calaf isn't sublime, but no matter. _Turandot_ isn't an opera we turn to for philosophical profundity or psychological subtleties.


True what you say except that that aria, which is almost like a gentle lullaby, separates itself from the usual Turandot sturm und drang.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Bjorling, despite of his pronounce and because of lack of veristic hysteria.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Wow! Now I get why people have such a thing for Bjorling!

This is suave and stylish, yet his voice is vibrant and carries emotion. It's a little mannered in places, but this is a wonderful version of this aria.

There is a bit of echo in the sound on the Corelli, but he gives so much more emotionally than Bjorling and the sob inherent in every moment works exceptionally well here. Corelli is considered by many to be THE Calaf, even by those who prefer other tenors in other roles. Unless Carreras can pull some sort of stunning surprise out of the bag, this is going to be the winner.

I only know Carreras in the role from the recording with Caballe which I have listened to once, but didn't much like. (Is that this recording?) I like him here, but he pales in comparison with the other two, having neither the style of Bjorling or the feeling of Corelli.

Corelli wins!

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

By the way, the Corelli excerpt comes from my favourite studio recording of the opera (Corelli/Nilsson/Scotto are all perfect for their respective roles) and the only rival to it is the Pavarotti/Sutherland/Caballe, which looks far less convincing on paper than it in fact turned out to be. Some may prefer other singers in each of the roles, Callas, Domingo, Carreras or Freni etc., but no other sets are so well cast in terms of the three main parts.

I find it interesting that De los Angeles never recorded Liu, I would have thought it the perfect role for her and she would have perhaps been a better choice than Schwarzkopf on the Serafin recording.

N.


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

The Conte said:


> By the way, the Corelli excerpt comes from my favourite studio recording of the opera (Corelli/Nilsson/Scotto are all perfect for their respective roles) and the only rival to it is the Pavarotti/Sutherland/Caballe, which looks far less convincing on paper than it in fact turned out to be. Some may prefer other singers in each of the roles, Callas, Domingo, Carreras or Freni etc., but no other sets are so well cast in terms of the three main parts.
> 
> I find it interesting that De los Angeles never recorded Liu, I would have thought it the perfect role for her and she would have perhaps been a better choice than Schwarzkopf on the Serafin recording.
> 
> N.


Victoria d l Angeles, in "Liu" ... Um, I might be wrong, but maybe Victoria didn't want to "tackle" the Liu role. Her voice, even considering her PROJECTION ... as in Madame Butterfly, with Mr. Jussi B, Mario Sereni and others (SO fine, but, also ..so GENTLE) ... might not have been what record producers were looking for, in the days of her, Schwarzkopf, Birgit Nilsson ... and those "heavyweights" of sopranos ... for such a forceful role. I don't know ... what do you & others think?


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## 89Koechel (Nov 25, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> Bjorling is _always_ sublime! With that voice and impeccable taste he could make Betty Crocker's book of dessert recipes sound sublime. Calaf isn't sublime, but no matter. _Turandot_ isn't an opera we turn to for philosophical profundity or psychological subtleties.


HMM, Mr. Woodduck ... as for "philosophical profundity or psychological subtleties". One could say "Soitanly" (or certainly, haha, kidding) ... but how many operas ARE "guilty" of the former? (maybe Fidelio, and Don Giovanni, and ....?). Anyway, good point, and maybe it's still the FORWARDNESS of the human voice, that Verdi, Puccini and others could excel (in) ... even as Jussi B kept a certain type of vocal RESERVE, so to speak, that the Swede could encompass, without strain or exaggeration ... with that unique TIMBRE, great breath control, and maybe some almost-indefinable qualities ... all told. One could also say ... a BALANCE ... of all things, vocal. Anyhoo, thanks for all who contribute to this discussion.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

89Koechel said:


> Victoria d l Angeles, in "Liu" ... Um, I might be wrong, but maybe Victoria didn't want to "tackle" the Liu role. Her voice, even considering her PROJECTION ... as in Madame Butterfly, with Mr. Jussi B, Mario Sereni and others (SO fine, but, also ..so GENTLE) ... might not have been what record producers were looking for, in the days of her, Schwarzkopf, Birgit Nilsson ... and those "heavyweights" of sopranos ... for such a forceful role. I don't know ... what do you & others think?


I don't think of Liu as a forceful role, although this aria is dramatic . I think of it more of a Caballe role, although Caballe was surprisingly effective on disc as Turandot as well. She may be the only soprano to perform both parts that I am aware of. I remember Caballe in her early NYC videos send out ravishing typical Caballe piano singing in Liu's first aria. Personally I can see why The Conte suggested VDLA . I would find Liu a hard part to sing as it is so sad one could allow constriction to easily take over your vocal production because of the tragedy of the part.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Perhaps Vicky of the Angels didn’t want to sing _seconda donna _parts? I think has the voice character for Liu, though, it’s a gentle role in my mind.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I don't think of Liu as a forceful role, although this aria is dramatic . I think of it more of a Caballe role, although Caballe was surprisingly effective on disc as Turandot as well. She may be the only soprano to perform both parts that I am aware of. I remember Caballe in her early NYC videos send out ravishing typical Caballe piano singing in Liu's first aria. Personally I can see why The Conte suggested VDLA . I would find Liu a hard part to sing as it is so sad one could allow constriction to easily take over your vocal production because of the tragedy of the part.


Personally, I've always thought Caballé sounds too much of the _grande dame_ for Liu, though she sings divinely on the Mehta recording. I prefer less richly endowed sopranos in the role, Moffo, Freni, Scotto, Schwarzkopf and my own personal favourite, Barbara Hendricks.


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