# How do you like your moonlight?



## tempo (Nov 8, 2012)

Rather like the third movement of the ninth, there are those who like the opening movement of the so-called 'moonlight' sonata (Op.27, No.2) to be played very slowly (around 7 minutes long) and there are those who prefer brisk, lilting versions of it (around 5 minutes).

What do you prefer any why? And what's your favourite recording?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

It's a dirge. Kipnis.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Yudina* (8:22) is absolutely great, but the sound ... well, it certainly invites to nostalghia:





A similar poor sound quality is found in a recording by* Ignaz Friedman* (6:49) 





*Gould* (4:16) is ridiculously oppositional here 




The new *HJ Lim* set from EMI (described as "Girl Power Beethoven" by some who are critical of this release) is almost as fast (4:30), but at least creates a more Romantic mood and some say that it is closer to the tempo originally prescribed by LvB: 




*Anton Kuerti* has a very strange, icy and frozen reading too, underplaying the motifs 
(not on you-t).

What I have heard from *Gilels *in this movement was a bit too subdued to my taste.
*Kempff* on DG stereo was the first I heard, but it seems fairly middle-of-the-road now.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I have Gould at 4:11, Gelber at 5:56, and Schiff (ECM) at 4:28. I prefer the underside of 5, but I don't discount a pianist's totality because of that.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, that hold the pedal bit should give you a clue as to how long Beethoven's piano sustained a note enough to hold a listeners interest, or be effective -- it also created a 'halo' after-ring effect. And Beethoven was in no way 'a romantic' nor did he go at things that way.

Guesstimate, the mid to shorter end of the overall duration spectrum, not nearly as 'romantic' as people think. That persistent near fetishist dotted quarter / sixteenth is unsettled, and I think that perturbed and unsettling quality pervades the entire score and it should be insistently present throughout - a slower tempo, and that feeling gets lost. 
*[*ADD: no modern piano can demi-pedal enough to get near the effect; contemporary playing means other well-judged pedal use.*]*

I own no recordings of Beethoven.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Andras Schiff gives a very strange performance on the first movement. He has his reasons, which I don't buy. Not on YT, but his discussion of the sonata is available and interesting.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I prefer the slow, old-fashioned way. When I was a young man, I noticed it was one classical piece which could get a young lady's attention.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

^Oh? That is probably true. That means that i have to learn it.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Ravndal said:


> ^Oh? That is probably true. That means that i have to learn it.


Don't put too much faith in it: I've known it for ages, and it hasn't done me any good 

Anyway, I prefer it on the faster end of things.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I own no recordings of Beethoven.


????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I would keep going but it might be construed as spam :lol:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> I prefer the slow, old-fashioned way. When I was a young man, I noticed it was one classical piece which could get a young lady's attention.


In one small arena, anyway, it is "follow the directives in the score," for which there is latitude aplenty within those parameters to keep a musician busy with one piece many times in a lifetime. I

In that small arena, it is *always,* _"Beethoven's way or the Highway,"_


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have Pollini at 6:22 and Barenboim at 7:09. The Yudina is simply uncomfortably slow. Apparently Gould and Schiff believe it should be played relatively briskly. Maybe they are correct that Beethoven wanted it that way, but I find it less enjoyable. Personally, I find Pollini's speed the most pleasing. When I _try_ to play the movement, I probably feel most comfortable very slightly faster than Pollini, but nowhere near Gould or Schiff.

For me, there's a serene beauty in savoring the triplets. Rushing them is like walking quickly through a museum without giving oneself time to appreciate the paintings.


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## Nivmizzet (Nov 27, 2012)

I've only ever heard the 1st movement and 3rd movement but don't really remember what the 3rd movement was like, but I do think that the first movement gives me an image as though I was in a pond in midnight.

About the original topic, I do prefer the slow version, the fast version just seems out of place for what it sounds like.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

How do I like my moonlight?

As in Debussy's Claire de Lune


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

tempo said:


> Rather like the third movement of the ninth, there are those who like the opening movement of the so-called 'moonlight' sonata (Op.27, No.2) to be played very slowly (around 7 minutes long) and there are those who prefer brisk, lilting versions of it (around 5 minutes).
> 
> What do you prefer any why? And what's your favourite recording?


I prefer skipping the first and second movements of the Moonlight and going to the genius movement, #3.


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

slowwwww please. Just like Mahler's Adagietto. Slowwwwww dowwwwnn


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

jailhouse said:


> slowwwww please. Just like Mahler's Adagietto. Slowwwwww dowwwwnn


Best performer in your opinion?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Solomon played it really slowly. Interesting Beethoven's indication for it yo belayed with the sustaining pedal held down. Maybe to compensate for the lack of sustaining power on his piano of the day.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Andras Schiff: Beethoven 'Moonlight' Sonata No. 14, C# Minor*

Self-explanatory.






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Barelytenor said:


> Self-explanatory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's blocked in my neck of the woods.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

joen_cph said:


> *Yudina* (8:22) is absolutely great, but the sound ... well, it certainly invites to nostalghia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for pointing out the a Kuerti, which I hadn't heard before, I'm not sure I agree that he underplays the motifs though.

My own favourite in the movement is Alexei Lubimov in the commercial recording, who comes in at about 4,40. One reason I like it is that it's quiet, rapt, spooky and brooding, he's playing it in a more exciting and melodramatic way now which doesn't interest me. This is a sonata which really is best on fortepiano, made for fortepiano and not easily transferable.

I think that Schiff's lecture on the sonata is spot on, and hence worth hearing. His courageous performance too.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Andras Schiff gives a very strange performance on the first movement. He has his reasons, which I don't buy. Not on YT, but his discussion of the sonata is available and interesting.


I don't like the way Andras Schiff plays any of the Beethoven sonatas and I don't agree with some of the things he says in his lectures. I don't think he 'gets' Beethoven the way I think Barenboim does.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> Thanks for pointing out the a Kuerti, which I hadn't heard before, I'm not sure I agree that he underplays the motifs though.
> 
> My own favourite in the movement is Alexei Lubimov in the commercial recording, who comes in at about 4,40. One reason I like it is that it's quiet, rapt, spooky and brooding, he's playing it in a more exciting and melodramatic way now which doesn't interest me. This is a sonata which really is best on fortepiano, made for fortepiano and not easily transferable?


Well, made for the piano available at the time. I would bet that Beethoven would have loved to have composed it on and for a modern grand! I've played it for years on a grand pianoforte and it transfers easily.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

DaveM said:


> ! I've played it for years on a grand pianoforte and it transfers easily.


Not with the dampers off it don't.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

From an enthusiastic 1802 review of the Op. 27 piano sonatas, written from the sheet music: “However, one has to own a really excellent instrument to be at all satisfied with one's own performance of some of his movements—for example, of the entire first movement of Op. 27 No. 2.”

I assume the reviewer is speaking mostly of sustaining power, something probably lacking in the fortepianos of the day. When we hear recordings of Beethoven played on a fortepiano, they are mostly on instruments built a quarter-century after the Moonlight Sonata was composed.


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## johankillen (Sep 20, 2015)

Slow. If you listen to ninth III in a really slow recording then you will get the "wait for it feeling" and you can really sink down into the music. 
I think Karajan does it really good in his beethoven circle 1993


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

Both. 

I don't say that to be witty or dismissive. I just find that when I truly love a piece, I fully delve into it by listening to a wide array of interpretations. Of course I have my preferences, but for Beethoven's solo piano music, I like hearing everything from Brautigam on fortepiano to Pollini to slower, romantic performances by Solomon and everything in between. 

If forced to choose, I would choose Schiff's quicker tempo interpretation.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I assume the reviewer is speaking mostly of sustaining power


__________

Why?

He may have been talking about clarity in all registers and a percussive bass.


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## bioluminescentsquid (Jul 22, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> Thanks for pointing out the a Kuerti, which I hadn't heard before, I'm not sure I agree that he underplays the motifs though.
> 
> My own favourite in the movement is Alexei Lubimov in the commercial recording, who comes in at about 4,40. One reason I like it is that it's quiet, rapt, spooky and brooding, he's playing it in a more exciting and melodramatic way now which doesn't interest me. This is a sonata which really is best on fortepiano, made for fortepiano and not easily transferable.
> 
> I think that Schiff's lecture on the sonata is spot on, and hence worth hearing. His courageous performance too.


How do you think of Shuann Chai's performance? How she plays the first movement is just utterly beautiful and free... reminds me of some kind of lute prelude or a 17th century unmeasured prelude by Couperin in spirit. And then the third movement flows, rather like a stream - I also like how she emphasizes dancelike portions of it.





Funnily, Pancrace Royer's harpsichord pieces remind me a lot of Beethoven - especially parts of "Le Vertigo"


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

bioluminescentsquid said:


> How do you think of Shuann Chai's performance? How she plays the first movement is just utterly beautiful and free... reminds me of some kind of lute prelude or a 17th century unmeasured prelude by Couperin in spirit. And then the third movement flows, rather like a stream - I also like how she emphasizes dancelike portions of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that's a nice performance by Schuann Chai, I wish she'd record some more Beethoven. The first movement is soft, rich and comfortable. Lubimov is much more threateningly spooky, he also makes really interesting and characterful gestures out of the lowest voice

Royer is a bit like Beethoven because middle period Beethoven is so dramatic, I can see that much, but I think you're thinking of something else! Please say more.


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