# Do you write well?



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Just something funny to share... The importance of putting the comas the right place.

Read this, above.

How do you understand this?


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

It was photo-shopped ...

Tails Media, Inc posted this about that particular magazine cover.  The original did indeed have commas.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

As a court reporter, I'm obsessive about grammar; the wrong punctuation can alter a sentence's meaning. This may have been a doctored photo, but your point has been made very well.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I write very well...in castellano, my mather language.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Lol, that's a good picture. :lol: 

I write well methinks. Well I try to anyway.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I write like Tolstoy/Dostoevsky a tiny bit in my short stories, which I consider well.  I definitely believe that reading their books has highly influenced my language to the point that besides writing long sentences like this one, I start _thinking _with such "proper" figures of speech and speaking differently as well. I haven't started saying "capital" yet though. :lol:


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

'I haven't started saying "capital" yet though.'

I suspect that those guys never did either.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> 'I haven't started saying "capital" yet though.'
> 
> I suspect that those guys never did either.


Can't be certain.  "Capital" was used in Russia the same way we use "cool" or "awesome" today.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Can't be certain.  "Capital" was used in Russia the same way we use "cool" or "awesome" today.


That's Capital to know!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

What? Even the original cover had bad grammar! It should say "[...] cooking, her family and her dog" not "cooking, her family, and her dog." In sentences such as these it is improper grammar to have a comma before the word "and."

Example: I ate a pear, an apple, an orange and a banana. CORRECT
I ate a pear, an apple, an orange, and a banana. INCORRECT.

Please tell the editor that they were wrong anyway.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> What? Even the original cover had bad grammar! It should say "[...] cooking, her family and her dog" not "cooking, her family, and her dog." In sentences such as these it is improper grammar to have a comma before the word "and."
> 
> Example: I ate a pear, an apple, an orange and a banana. CORRECT
> I ate a pear, an apple, an orange, and a banana. INCORRECT.
> ...


In the US, we use a comma before "and" if there is any possible chance of confusion. A great example I share with my students is based on an actual court case. One sibling was suing two others over their fathers' will, which contained a sentence such as this:

"Bill, Ted and Sally will share $1,000,000." How do you suppose Ted interpreted it? He gets $500,000; his siblings split the remaining $500,000. The judge agreed. See? That final comma (known as the serial, Harvard, or Oxford comma) is always a good idea!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Krummhorn said:


> It was photo-shopped ...
> 
> Tails Media, Inc posted this about that particular magazine cover. The original did indeed have commas.


A known writer posted this. Maybe you are right, I really don't know. But, if you are saying so, I suppose you can PROVE it, I'll appreciate a proof, posting the real magazine.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I write like Tolstoy/Dostoevsky a tiny bit in my short stories, which I consider well.  I definitely believe that reading their books has highly influenced my language to the point that besides writing long sentences like this one, I start _thinking _with such "proper" figures of speech and speaking differently as well. I haven't started saying "capital" yet though. :lol:


I love Dostoyevsky, Pushkin, Gogol and Turgeniev... Tolstoi, less though.

Martin, Russky


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Can't be certain.  "Capital" was used in Russia the same way we use "cool" or "awesome" today.


My son uses *it's Epic*! very often.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Kontrapunctus said:


> In the US, we use a comma before "and" if there is any possible chance of confusion. A great example I share with my students is based on an actual court case. One sibling was suing two others over their fathers' will, which contained a sentence such as this:
> 
> "Bill, Ted and Sally will share $1,000,000." How do you suppose Ted interpreted it? He gets $500,000; his siblings split the remaining $500,000. The judge agreed. See? That final comma (known as the serial, Harvard, or Oxford comma) is always a good idea!


In Spanish, a coma before the and is unacceptable. I mean, for an enumeration, the and already works as a coma.

Peter, Sally and George are my friends is like saying Peter, Sally, George are the three of them my friends. Pedro, Sally y George son mis amigos. The same in French.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Kontrapunctus said:


> In the US, we use a comma before "and" if there is any possible chance of confusion. A great example I share with my students is based on an actual court case. One sibling was suing two others over their fathers' will, which contained a sentence such as this:
> 
> "Bill, Ted and Sally will share $1,000,000." How do you suppose Ted interpreted it? He gets $500,000; his siblings split the remaining $500,000. The judge agreed. See? That final comma (known as the serial, Harvard, or Oxford comma) is always a good idea!


But not in my country


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> A known writer posted this. Maybe you are right, I really don't know. But, if you are saying so, I suppose you can PROVE it, I'll appreciate a proof, posting the real magazine.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Martin


I've already done that ... Tails Magazine is the group who published the photo shop information - direct from the source (publisher).

I do not have a copy of that magazine however ... but it is _my opinion_ that the Tails Magazine article regarding the photo shopping is genuine. My opinion is neither right or wrong ... just my opinion. 

Kh


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> But not in my country


I bet there's a lot of confusion in your country!


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Kontrapunctus said:


> In the US, we use a comma before "and" if there is any possible chance of confusion. A great example I share with my students is based on an actual court case. One sibling was suing two others over their fathers' will, which contained a sentence such as this:
> 
> "Bill, Ted and Sally will share $1,000,000." How do you suppose Ted interpreted it? He gets $500,000; his siblings split the remaining $500,000. The judge agreed. See? That final comma (known as the serial, Harvard, or Oxford comma) is always a good idea!


... and, as an English writer, predisposed not to put in the final comma, but employed by _Fanfare_ (a US magazine), I can confirm that that magazine instructs its writers to include the comma under all circumstances - presumably to avoid tedious, time wasting arguments about individual cases. It is not a case of what is correct or incorrect, however much CoAG would like to impose order - it is a matter of style.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Do i write well?
Kinda, but i am mildly dyslexic.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Kontrapunctus said:


> I bet there's a lot of confusion in your country!


I bet there isn't.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Kontrapunctus said:


> "Bill, Ted and Sally will share $1,000,000." How do you suppose Ted interpreted it? He gets $500,000; his siblings split the remaining $500,000. The judge agreed. See? That final comma (known as the serial, Harvard, or Oxford comma) is always a good idea!


Sorry to be obtuse but, surely, Bill has one share, and Ted and Sally jointly have the other. If the shares are equal, it's Bill that gets the $500K.

Had it read ""Bill, Ted, and Sally will share $1,000,000" then, assuming, the shares are equal, each gets a third of a million.


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## Very Senior Member (Jul 16, 2009)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Sorry to be obtuse but, surely, Bill has one share, and Ted and Sally jointly have the other. If the shares are equal, it's Bill that gets the $500K. Had it read ""Bill, Ted, and Sally will share $1,000,000" then, assuming, the shares are equal, each gets a third of a million.


 Surely there's as much ambiguity stemming from the lack of the word "equally" as there is in any lack of a comma. You have assumed that "equally" is the intended result, but this isn't stated. . Given a lack of any other relevant information about the donor's intentions on this specific part of the Will concerning the disposal of his estate, I would have thought that the common-sense interpreation of this sentence is that each of the named beneficiaries gets an equal one-third share of the £1m. Ideally, the donor should have written something like "I bequeath the sum of £1m to be shared equally between [my chldren?] X, Y, Z". If there are other children or potential beneficiaries who don't receive any part of the donor's financial assets then these should be referred to in case of dispute; e.g. using words like "... and I intentionally exclude A, B, C from this part of my Will".


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Krummhorn said:


> I've already done that ... Tails Magazine is the group who published the photo shop information - direct from the source (publisher).
> 
> I do not have a copy of that magazine however ... but it is _my opinion_ that the Tails Magazine article regarding the photo shopping is genuine. My opinion is neither right or wrong ... just my opinion.
> 
> Kh


Thank you, this helps. Then, consider this as a bad joke or a boycott for a reason I don't know, it is stiil funny, because it demonstrate the importance of a little sign called coma.

Martin, satisfied


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Like I say to my students....

*I like cat*... what does it mean? Nobody can believe it, but I like to eat cat is the right answer. Language can be dangereous and tricky. English not being my mother tongue, I have to pay attention more than a native speaker. I think I don't have a mother tongue any more, usually I think in concepts, not in words. That way, I have always to translate what I think, not from one language to another, but from concepts into words. I am limited in language terms. language for me is kind of a chain.
I wrote some books though...but still...
I love the two Alices for that reason, the guy is a magician playing with words. I read these two books when I was very young in Spanish. I read these books again 1 year ago in English and I could enjoy reading it in English because of this aspect I hadn't noticed before.



Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Thank you, this helps. Then, consider this as a bad joke or a boycott for a reason I don't know, it is stiil funny, because it demonstrate the importance of a little sign called coma.
> 
> Martin, satisfied


That's "comma."


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I bet there isn't.


I've put thought into the Oxford comma recently.

I used to avoid commas as much as possible because they take a sentence of perfect aesthetics and, well, muck it all, like, up. Also, I was insecure, because in my much younger and less vulnerable years, I used commas too often, like that, so I was overcompensating. In the same way, I acquired a huge classical music collection - several meters long, laid end to end.

But in the past couple of years commas and I have been going through a reconciliation process. It's been good. A lot has come up, we've had to work through some things, it hasn't been all shortcake and jellies, but we are getting along better than we used to.

So it was time to reconsider the old Oxford comma, which I'd avoided even in my punctuationally wilder days. It is impossible utterly to avoid ambiguity in all situations whatsoever. But in my writing, I estimate that I use constructions like "A, B and C, D and E, and F" more often than constructions like "A, B, and C" where B modifies A.

That is, I'm likely to write something like, "I'd like to invite Rob, Graham and Soyoung, Brian and Jennifer, and Joe to our party." Omitting the final comma introduces unpleasant speculation as to the nature of the relationship between Brian and Jennifer and Joe.

Of course that means there is unnecessary ambiguity in a phrase like, "my mom, a crazy lady, and my brother." Is my mom the crazy lady in question? That is indeed a very good question. But I usually don't write phrases like that.

So I resolved to use the Oxford comma and clarify sentences of the latter sort with alternative punctuation, such as, "my mom, who is a crazy lady, and my brother."

The commas and I continue to make progress.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> That's "comma."


ok, thank you... commmma is even better. Double consonants in English and in French are absolutely *useless*, why not putting three or four consonants, the sound doesn't change anyhow! *in Spanish when you have a double consonant it doesn't sound the same way. * acidente sounds like asidente; accidente sounds like axidente. This makes sense.

I'll remember now, comma.

Martin, learning English ortographe


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

science said:


> That is, I'm likely to write something like, "I'd like to invite Rob, Graham and Soyoung, Brian and Jennifer, and Joe to our party." Omitting the final comma introduces unpleasant speculation as to the nature of the relationship between Brian and Jennifer and Joe.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:, this Joe!!, always in trouble!!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> ok, thank you... commmma is even better. Double consonants in English and in French are absolutely *useless*, why not putting three or four consonants, the sound doesn't change anyhow! *in Spanish when you have a double consonant it doesn't sound the same way. * acidente sounds like asidente; accidente sounds like axidente. This makes sense.
> 
> I'll remember now, comma.
> 
> Martin, learning English ortographe


Answering to Martin:

Comma is the ponctuation sign.... you pronounce the m dry because it is double as *hidden*
Coma is something you have when you have a very bad accident and you are in the hospital... you pronounce couma. Like when you say *Hide*, you pronounce haide. It makes sense!

I think the correction helped me! Thank you, ComposerOfAvantgarde!

Thank you Martin, I'll consider this in the future.

Nikolai Myaskovsky


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Reminds me of the classic pop lyric, "Comma comma comma comma comma chameleon / You come and go, you come and go, oh oh oh." 

I'd've been proud to have written that. 

(That is, when the royalties started rolling in.)


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I guess I don't write very well in English. I write perfectly well in Spanish and in French. Not very well in Russian unfortunately.
I don't really mind. For me language is just a tool I use the best I can.

Martin, sighing


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I guess I don't write very well in English. I write perfectly well in Spanish and in French. Not very well in Russian unfortunately.
> I don't really mind. For me language is just a tool I use the best I can.
> 
> Martin, sighing


haha, well, sometimes when I need to write a word in english that I know it has a tricky spelling, I go to google translator and he corrects my bad attempt. :lol:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

aleazk said:


> haha, well, sometimes when I need to write a word in english that I know it has a tricky spelling, I go to google translator and he corrects my bad attempt. :lol:


Well done! But I just write the word on Google, if it can't find it, I wrote it the wrong way. I don't like translations and morover I don't need them.
========================================

chapter 2:

I love making researches. American and British orthograph have some differences, other than the z in organize, Americans write traveled and British travelled. The rule Americans apply is, when you put the accent in the last syllable, i.e. pronounce prefér you add rr prefer==> preferred, British do the same, but when the tonic accent goes in the last but one syllable as travel (pronounce trável), Americans don't double, British do. I'm always making researches in order to improve whatever... I am a limited human being, very limited. But I love to learn new "stuff". I learn a lot here. Danke schön.

Spanish and French orthograph are unique, because we do have *Academies* for both languages: *Real academia española *for Spanish and *Académie française *for French. The rules are followed by everybody. These Academies have one member for each country speaking the language.

21 countries speak Spanish:

in North America, Mexico

En América central (central America) :

02 Guatemala (10,6)
03 El Salvador (5,9)
04 Honduras (5,9) 
05 Nicaragua (4,5) 
06 Costa Rica (3,3), 
07 Panamá (2,6)
08 Cuba (10,6)
09 Puerto Rico (3,9) 
10 República Dominicana (7,9)

En América del sur (South America):

11 Venezuela (22,2)
12 Colombia (34,9) 
13 Ecuador (12,6) 
14 Perú (25,1) 
15 Chile (14,2)
16 Bolivia (8,4) 
17 Paraguay (4,8) 
18 Argentina (34,2)
19 Uruguay (3,2)

In Brazil they speak Portuguese

Countries speaking French:

Bénin
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cameroun
Canada (Provinces de Québec et du Nouveau-Brunswick principalement, mais le français est langue officielle dans tout le pays)
Comores
Congo
Côte d'Ivoire
Djibouti
France
Gabon
Guinée
Guinée équatoriale
Haïti
Inde (Pondichéry, Un territoire de l'Union indienne )
Italie (Val d'Aoste, une région bilingue)
Luxembourg
Madagascar
Mali
Monaco
Niger
République centrafricaine
République démocratique du Congo
Rwanda
Sénégal
Seychelles
Suisse
Tchad
Togo
Vanuatu
Wallis et Futuna

This list is quite too long, many countries nowadays don't speak French any more.

Notice I wrote any more in two words not as Americans do, just one word. I hate using one word!

Interesting, n'est-ce pas?

Martin


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

For what it's worth, I was always told to put the comma before the "and" for the reasons mentioned above. It always avoids confusion.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm for the Oxford Comma. I do not write well. Writers write well.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

whoops, wrong post, done here already.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Apparently, what I exposed about French and Spanish languages doesn't interest many people. It is just to show that English is not the most important language. They have already tried Esperanto without any success. English-speaking individuals made a boycott.
"Why should we learn another language, we are the riches countries in the world... C'mon, Just speak the language from where money flourish. " *Not for long*.

USA is declining... Like the Roman Empire, just too bad. USA has the richest men, but also the poorest men. The differences are huge. England was always supporting the USA... Why? I think I know the answer, don't you?


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## Romantic Geek (Dec 25, 2009)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Apparently, what I exposed about French and Spanish languages doesn't interest many people. It is just to show that English is not the most important language. They have already tried Esperanto without any success. English-speaking individuals made a boycott.
> "Why should we learn another language, we are the riches countries in the world... C'mon, Just speak the language from where money flourish. " *Not for long*.
> 
> USA is declining... Like the Roman Empire, just too bad. USA has the richest men, but also the poorest men. The differences are huge. England was always supporting the USA... Why? I think I know the answer, don't you?


Yes, the USA is declining...yet they're only one of a few nations that currently have a growing GDP. The disparity between the poor and rich is overwhelming, but I wouldn't say the US is declining. If anything, a more globalized world only solidifies the US's prominence on the world stage.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Romantic Geek said:


> Yes, the USA is declining...yet they're only one of a few nations that currently have a growing GDP. The disparity between the poor and rich is overwhelming, but I wouldn't say the US is declining. If anything, a more globalized world only solidifies the US's prominence on the world stage.


USA is always present at wars.

Martin


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> View attachment 6028
> 
> 
> Just something funny to share... The importance of putting the comas the right place.
> ...


Read above did me. Paper ad funny it was. Dog and family not delicious but.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

I remember an example French teacher put to my class on college. A certain rich man died and on his will he left money to several people, and all the rest of his fortune to, say, Jacques. Relative to Charles and Jean, he said "A chacun deux mill francs". But between "d" and "eux", the was a certain point. Charles and Jean allege that it was only a spot on the paper, and the will was "a chacun deux mill francs", that is to each, 2 thousend francs. But Jacques said it was written by the testator, and so it says "a chacun d'eux mill francs"., that's to each of them, a thousend francs. So there wre a thousend francs on discussion. And at the time of the will, that was a big sum. The subject was taken to a judge. But the teacher never told us what was resolved.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Odnoposoff said:


> I remember an example French teacher put to my class on college. A certain rich man died and on his will he left money to several people, and all the rest of his fortune to, say, Jacques. Relative to Charles and Jean, he said "A chacun deux mill francs". But between "d" and "eux", the was a certain point. Charles and Jean allege that it was only a spot on the paper, and the will was "a chacun deux mill francs", that is to each, 2 thousend francs. But Jacques said it was written by the testator, and so it says "a chacun d'eux mill francs"., that's to each of them, a thousend francs. So there wre a thousend francs on discussion. And at the time of the will, that was a big sum. The subject was taken to a judge. But the teacher never told us what was resolved.


I consider that I speak And write French perfectly well. French is a real ****. Very often you pronounce the same for different things. In this partcular case: à chacun deux mille francs. (2 thousand dollars each) and à chacun d'eux, mille francs (1 thousand dollars each).

Indeed it sounds exactly the same. You have to see how it is written in order to know the real meaning.

I also teach written French, this is not the worst case I've ever seen.

Deux = two, d'eux = of them

Free lesson... LOL
Martin


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