# How could Helen Traubel be so great?



## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

I really don t know, how she does it. Her middle is so gorgeous. Using it - music of Wagner can be heard. Even great singers of the past could not always sing all hidden melodies in his music. It is really bad that she never had High C and even B. Sorry for my English, if it is not correct. I am just really admirred with this american talent. I created this thread maybe to get some impressions or even exprerience from you. It is pity that there is no recording of her Parsifal. She sang it, but I can t find it persofally nowhere.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

and 



 are 2 Youtube videos I did of a pair of Toastmaster speeches I did a while ago on her opera and pop singing. You may not get much response as Traubel is mostly forgotten on this forum. I got little love for her from the group when I started a thread some time ago. I think she is incredible. Check out her Suicidio and Deep River on Youtube. There are some nice clips of her from a Hollywood musical.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Maxim Perepelitsa said:


> I really don t know, how she does it. Her middle is so gorgeous. Using it - music of Wagner can be heard. Even great singers of the past could not always sing all hidden melodies in his music. It is really bad that she never had High C and even B. Sorry for my English, if it is not correct. I am just really admirred with this american talent. I created this thread maybe to get some impressions or even exprerience from you. It is pity that there is no recording of her Parsifal. She sang it, but I can t find it persofally nowhere.


Yes, her middle (and her bottom register) is so gorgeous that I don't really care about the short top at all. Check out the note at the time mark 3:36:06 ("_Ruhe, Ruhe, du Gott_'). I have never heard it done more beautifully by anyone else (Flagstad included). This is perhaps my favorite Immolation Scene.


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## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

For me she is the best. She s really concentrated on her own work. Really wagnerian with solid middle and lower part of upper range(without B and C). I can hear her forever. And I know why. That s not because she has god given voice. It s because she developed singing muscules in proper way and of course taste. She had a good concertmaster and ears. 03/21/1950 and 04/7/1950 she sang Kundry at Met. Is it somehow possible to ask them, if they recorded it. And how to make it in this case. 2 month ago appeared rare recording(and the best) of her Tristan 11/30/1946:


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## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

Yes I heard this recording million times. Flagstad and Nilsson are too unique singers. They have another advantages. But 99% of wagnerian singing is the notes which she does well. And that fact makes her the best personally for me.
P S Of course I would be happy, if I would hear even big proper dramatic B from her)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

silentio said:


> Yes, her middle (and her bottom register) is so gorgeous that I don't really care about the short top at all. Check out the note at the time mark 3:36:06 ("_Ruhe, Ruhe, du Gott_'). I have never heard it done more beautifully by anyone else (Flagstad included). This is perhaps my favorite Immolation Scene.


Yes. Her low voice was possibly even better than Flagstad's. Glorious and totally integrated with the top. She actually sang a great B in Isolde''s Curse. You can get by with a top that ends in A in most Wagner roles. Farrell and Flagstad both omited the high notes as they aged... and no one cared.


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## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

Thanks for high B


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Maxim Perepelitsa said:


> Yes I heard this recording million times. Flagstad and Nilsson are too unique singers. They have another advantages. But 99% of wagnerian singing is the notes which she does well. And that fact makes her the best personally for me.
> P S Of course I would be happy, if I would hear even big proper dramatic B from her)






 here is your B


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I love coincidences . . . .

This week I was listening to the "lost" Rodgers & Hammerstein musical *Pipe Dream*, in which *Traubel* plays Fauna, the madam of the whorehouse.

In a way, the musical had many things going against it, and she, as a legit voice in a sea of broadway voices, was one of them. Calling Pipe Dream "a flop" is being kind.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Traubel should have done more standards like Dorothy Kirsten and Eileen Farrell. This is nice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

silentio said:


> Traubel should have done more standards like Dorothy Kirsten and Eileen Farrell. This is nice.


Her low voice is so wonderful here. I used this in my speech about her. I think she sang a lot but not many made it to being recorded. She sang probably an hour and a half in her nightclub acts over several years. Much of her popular repertoire we have are from her one Hollywood musical. What we have is at least as good as Farrell's and that is saying a lot!


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

More beautiful singing from Traubel. Long ago, Wagnerian singers like Nordica, Fremstad, Lubin, Leider, Flagstad, Traubel, etc., who tackle Brunnhilde and Isolde, can also sing lyrical lighter pieces brilliantly. Nowadays, sigh... (I should stop because I will be accused of hating all singers after the 60s).






Bonus: The great Lillian Nordica sings some popular songs of her day.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I find her a very “safe” singer, taking no risks with her voice, no plunges into her chest, the high notes taken “on the breath,” high notes (safely) detached from the phrase, no portamento. So, not too much feeling to her singing. Yes, the voice is beautiful. Yes, she may have good high notes. 

At the time of her career, she had competition from Europe, which management at the Metropolitan Opera preferred to the home grown singers, even one of Traubel’s caliber. So she was probably second-cast in her chosen repertory. Also, Bing hated her crossover work., thought it undignified - opera singers had dignity in those days! But she was much appreciated in Chicago and San Francisco.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> I find her a very "safe" singer, taking no risks with her voice, no plunges into her chest, the high notes taken "on the breath," high notes (safely) detached from the phrase, no portamento. So, not too much feeling to her singing. Yes, the voice is beautiful. Yes, she may have good high notes.
> 
> At the time of her career, she had competition from Europe, which management at the Metropolitan Opera preferred to the home grown singers, even one of Traubel's caliber. So she was probably second-cast in her chosen repertory. Also, Bing hated her crossover work., thought it undignified - opera singers had dignity in those days!


You neglected to say that the voice was also of titanic size, almost as big as Flagstad's. I gave an anecdote about the size of her voice in my first speech which I posted above. It is often listed as one of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of all time. Not just a second rate singer. Her reviews were amazing. In Suicidio she showed not only passion but low notes of astonishing size and beauty without using heavy chest. As for feeling, she showed a lot more feeling in her popular singing. She excelled in popular singing because she had done extensive study with the premier vocal coach for lieder at that time. In fact I dare you to listen to Auf Wiedersehen from her Hollywood musical and find any difference in her singing from any other opera singer in concert singing lieder: 



 The reason she loved popular music so much was that on the opera stage she felt she was so removed from the audience, whereas in a nightclub, she had an immediate connection with the crowd which was very fulfilling to her and likely encouraged more connection to the music.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You neglected to say that the voice was also of titanic size, almost as big as Flagstad's. I gave an anecdote about the size of her voice in my first speech which I posted above. It is often listed as one of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of all time. Not just a second rate singer. Her reviews were amazing. In Suicidio she showed not only passion but low notes of astonishing size and beauty without using heavy chest. As for feeling, she showed a lot more feeling in her popular singing. She excelled in popular singing because she had done extensive study with the premier vocal coach for lieder at that time. In fact I dare you to listen to Auf Wiedersehen from her Hollywood musical and find any difference in her singing from any other opera singer in concert singing lieder:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason she loved popular music so much was that on the opera stage she felt she was so removed from the audience, whereas in a nightclub, she had an immediate connection with the crowd which was very fulfilling to her and likely encouraged more connection to the music.


@Seattleoperafan, sorry I didn't mean to neglect the size of Traubel's voice, nor did I mean she was a second rate singer, but that she was unappreciated in her own country's premier opera house and consigned to second casts in that theater, for the most part.
Through no fault of her own. But she got better treatment in Chicago and San Francisco.

She shares with Eileen Farrell the love of non-operatic song, who was similarly treated by Bing.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> @Seattleoperafan, sorry I didn't mean to neglect the size of Traubel's voice, nor did I mean she was a second rate singer, but that she was unappreciated in her own country's premier opera house and consigned to second casts in that theater, for the most part.
> Through no fault of her own. But she got better treatment in Chicago and San Francisco.
> 
> She shares with Eileen Farrell the love of non-operatic song, who was similarly treated by Bing.


She was top dog till Bing took over and he wasn't a Wagner fan and she got less and less work after he took over, which is why she started singing in nightclubs. Thanks for your good comments. I didn't know about Farrell and Bing, but it makes sense. Farrell actually much preferred to sing in recitals as it allowed more time for her to be a mother . Traubel would sing 100 recitals a year plus operas. She didn't make money till she was in her mid thirties so she had to make up a lot for that delayed start.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> She was top dog till Bing took over and he wasn't a Wagner fan and she got less and less work after he took over, which is why she started singing in nightclubs. Thanks for your good comments. I didn't know about Farrell and Bing, but it makes sense. Farrell actually much preferred to sing in recitals as it allowed more time for her to be a mother . Traubel would sing 100 recitals a year plus operas. She didn't make money till she was in her mid thirties so she had to make up a lot for that delayed start.


"Well it was just a question, does she run the Met or do I run the Met? And at that time, perhaps very wrongly, I felt that I was running the Met." - Rudolf Bing 1977

Bing wasn't the only one to think that others could have done a better job than him!

(He was talking in that quote about Callas, of course.)

N.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Not very long ago, I listened to a bit of this album:

View attachment 137382


I listened to Traubel sing "Dich teure Halle" and was simply blown away! :angel:
The high note at the end didn't sound very good, but the rest was absolutely magnificent!

Considering that opera is more than just high notes, I can definitely stand to listen to an excellent singer even if the high notes are lacking. Helen Traubel is one of those singers, just too beautiful a voice to ignore!

I've had this vinyl for a while but haven't listened to it yet. \/ I didn't even know about her when I got it, but perhaps it's time to give it a spin.

View attachment 137383


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

adriesba said:


> Not very long ago, I listened to a bit of this album:
> 
> View attachment 137382
> 
> ...


High notes ( B's and C's) In Wagner are like hot days in Alaska. Something else about Traubel was that she was a very handsome woman with goddess like features that worked well for Wagner. She was big, but not by today's standards LOL


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## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

For me this is her best recordings. Really full dramatical power and expression of Wagner:
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/j35edbce57da09b
https://ytcropper.com/cropped/gd5edbcf55c9d50
And that s not only beacause I like her as singer. No, it s because I feel in these recordings rich wagnerian melodies and music itself. And I could not find it anywhere.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Listening to the Stiedry Met Ring Cycle the past few days, I have to say Traubel is better in this cycle than Flagstad in the La Scala one with Furtwangler.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Well, I listened to my Traubel LP. And wow! I was simply enchanted by her voice from start to finish! The Wagner excerpts were particularly appealing to me. 

I tried looking up albums with her on CD and I feel like the discography is just a bit lacking, but I guess that's what happens when you go back that far in time with opera recordings.

I'm glad I got that LP, as I'm not sure that much of it has been released in any other format from the bit of searching I did.

It's amazing that in the past few weeks she has gone from just another name to me, to now one of my favorite sopranos! I just can't get over it! What a beautiful voice! :angel:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

adriesba said:


> Well, I listened to my Traubel LP. And wow! I was simply enchanted by her voice from start to finish! The Wagner excerpts were particularly appealing to me.
> 
> I tried looking up albums with her on CD and I feel like the discography is just a bit lacking, but I guess that's what happens when you go back that far in time with opera recordings.
> 
> ...


Well in my speech on Youtube I pointed out that she never began her career till her mid 30's when she felt her voice was finally perfected. It paid off. She started out on the world stage at the very top and stayed there till Bing fired her. There are many non Wagner arias likely from that album on Youtube.


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## Maxim Perepelitsa (May 31, 2020)

My brain says to me that Nilsson is the best wagnerian soprano. But I just can t have a cool mind when Traubel sings in a middle. It is not just a voice. It is like a nature sings Wagner. Her early recordings(Walkuere 1941, Tanhauser 1942, Tristan 1943) are just great. I never heard something like this. And Brunhilde in 1951 Siegfried sadly without even high B is so unique. Her voice is gleaming like a sword. I hope that I will get her recording with her last performance in 1953. I really don t expect a great singing. I just want to hear farewell of this great artist. Maybe she couldn t sing high C, but she could sing a music.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

In the 1948 Stiedry Met _Tannhäuser_, Traubel actually managed to hit the high note at the end of "Dich, teure Halle". It was quite a pleasant surprise when I heard the recording.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, it is nice to encounter other rare opera fans who remember and love Traubel. If she were alive today she would be one of the wonders of the operatic world, I'm sure. I would love to hear a modern stereophonic recording of her heroic voice. I love her low voice and actually love her pop songs the best because of that as well as The Immolation Scene which has lots of that as well.


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