# Gustav Mahler



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

What a fantastic composer. I just listened to his fifth and am absolutely in love with his style! Very erratic, yet certainly has a flow to it. I love it!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)




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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

I'd say the fifth is my favorite.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

For me 2 and 8 are standing out, like the rest also though.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Did he compose any solo piano work?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I just found out I have his 8th by Solti. I remember now liatening to it before a couple times and not liking it particularly. Will try again. So far I only like his 1st and 9th. Really like the Song of the Earth though.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Did he compose any solo piano work?


It's a short answer: no, he didn't


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> I just found out I have his 8th by Solti. I remember now liatening to it before a couple times and not liking it particularly. Will try again. So far I only like his 1st and 9th. Really like the Song of the Earth though.


But those two works are completely different, perhaps it was all the singing in no 8 ?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Pugg said:


> But those two works are completely different, perhaps it was all the singing in no 8 ?


Yeah, i think so, listening to it now. Not my cup of tea. I know His musical language is similar to Bruckner's, but Bruckner appeals to me much more.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yeah, i think so, listening to it now. Not my cup of tea. I know His musical language is similar to Bruckner's, but Bruckner appeals to me much more.


Well, that's a different debate
I was only curious about the symphony 8/9 contrast at this moment.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Although I love Mahlers symphonies very much I love his music for voice & orchestra maybe even more. Das Lied von der Erde is the perfect middle ground between those two. I recently saw and heard the Amsterdam Sinfonietta give a very unique, world class performance of Schönbergs/Riehns arrangement but for an enlarged instrumental setting (with 23 string instruments in stead of four). Sheer perfection, I was taken breathless from start to finish.


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

I love his second the most. Complex, powerful but delicate.
The forth is also beautiful.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

rice said:


> I love his second the most. Complex, powerful but delicate.


Seconded. Typically i do not enjoy choral classical works, but Kubelik's last movement of the 2nd is absolutely sublime, like angels calling. Its just a symphony full of breath-taking moments, the one work i feel best live up to his 'must encompass everything in life' mantra, except perhaps the 3rd. The 2nd is just flawless.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> What a fantastic composer. I just listened to his fifth and am absolutely in love with his style! Very erratic, yet certainly has a flow to it. I love it!


Hi, Captainnumber36, I'm Totenfeier, and I take my name from the generally accepted "nickname" for the first movement of his 2nd Symphony (the piece he based it on is also called "Totenfeier," written by the man himself earlier, and is occasionally performed as a stand-alone piece. It more or less means "Funeral Rites" in English).

From your post, I can't really tell how much experience you have with him (I'm assuming newbie; if that's not so, just blow off the rest of my post, as I will waste your time), but here's the thing about enjoying Mahler. You mention the "erratic" nature of his style; that's a feature, not a bug. As mentioned above, he once disagreed with the Finnish composer Jean Sibelius, who stated that he admired the symphonic form for its cohesion, focus and strict inner logic. "No," Mahler replied. "The symphony is like the world; it must contain everything." And his symphonies do contain every type of emotion (sometimes within bars of each other), and every kind of instrument, including a violin tuned a whole step up, cowbells, sleigh bells, ruthe ( a bound bundle of sticks usually used to hit the drumhead with, but which Mahler asks to be smacked against the _side_ of the drum), and, most famously, a "hammer," used to represent the "blow of fate" in the last movement of his 6th Symphony (Mahler wanted a strong, powerful, non-metallic sound, something like "an axe striking a tree," but couldn't find the exact sound or volume he wanted despite hitting several things with a large mallet - conductors have beer trying different things for decades, with varying degrees of success).

Mahler loved his long summer vacation hikes in the soaring Alpine scenery, and to appreciate him, you've got to be ready and willing to walk along beside him, listening to his conversation, looking intently at everything he points out to you along the winding way. By all accounts, he was a jumpy, jittery, high-strung sort, with an erratic "hop" to his walk (in these days of "historical psychoanalysis," I feel free to wonder if he might have "been ADHD" - he certainly seems willing to shout "Squirrel!" excitedly in his work, and run off on a tangent). Nonetheless, having said all that, there is a great deal of structure in his work as well; it's just on such a "macro" level when compared to traditional classical and romantic symphonists).

It's interesting that you enjoy the fifth (as I do, too); it's rather an odd duck in the Mahler canon, and often described as difficult for conductors and musicians alike to grasp and perform well. It marks the transition between his early and middle periods, and Mahler himself found it difficult to write: he noted that his earlier style of composition, which he once referred to as "orchestraphony," seemed to "desert" him, and he said he had to struggle toward a new style of polyphony.

Many Mahlerites will no doubt disagree with my recommended path, but I have my reasons. I'd say definitely try the 2nd and 3rd next. Then try the 6th and 9th. Next come the 1st and 4th (which will sound very different from the foregoing, but your ears will be "Mahler-tuned" by then, so you'll see what he's getting at better). Then come the great vocal works: the 8th Symphony, "Das Lied von der Erde" (Mahler's "song-symphony") and the lieder. Save the 7th for much later - it's the oddest duck of all, in my opinion (but in a strange way, sort of like a shadow-version of the fifth!). At last, you'll be ready for the unfinished Tenth (I prefer the Cooke version).

Enjoy Mahler! And if it turns out that you posted just because the fifth was the most recent Mahler work you listened to, and wanted to share some enthusiasm, then please forgive my ramblings - maybe _somebody_ might find them useful.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I tend to agree about the 7th being an 'odd duck' but I have come to see the 6th & 7th as an extended symphonic pair in the same way that the 9th and 10th seem to be (I say 'seem' because the 10th was never completely finished.) The pairing is not only in the structure but also the emotion and resolution. Given that the 1st thru 4th are seen as a grouping, then the 'odd ducks' are the 5th and 8th as they don't seem to relate to others in the canon.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Becca said:


> I tend to agree about the 7th being an 'odd duck' but I have come to see the 6th & 7th as an extended symphonic pair in the same way that the 9th and 10th seem to be (I say 'seem' because the 10th was never completely finished.) The pairing is not only in the structure but also the emotion and resolution. Given that the 1st thru 4th are seen as a grouping, then the 'odd ducks' are the 5th and 8th as they don't seem to relate to others in the canon.


Becca, I see what you're getting at with 9 & 10. I'll have to think through 6 & 7 again (though I've idly wondered if 7 was some sort of "purgatory" that the fallen "man in full leaf and flower" of 6 had to undergo to return to life!)

Yep, 5 is the outlier. I literally can't bring myself to listen to 8 again, although I used to adore it (right around my "Young Werther" period, of course!). I just don't have the time or energy I used to. One of these days, though, I'm just going to have to grit my teeth, flip a three-sided coin between Solti, Tennstedt and Boulez, and have another go.


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## merlinus (Apr 12, 2014)

I have never been able to abide nos. 4 and 8, nor his song cycles. The last one of _Das Lied von der Erde_ is deeply moving, however.

My favorites, in order, are 2, 3, 6, 9, 5 (especially the Adagietto), the no. 10 Adagio (only that movement was completed by Mahler), and 1.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One can find advocates for every one of the Mahler symphonies including various reconstructions of the Tenth-none of which sound convincingly completed by Mahler to these ears.

For me, there is nothing like a masterful performance of the Eighth Symphony, as the one conducted by Pierre Boulez...one of his greatest performances, in my opinion.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

hpowders said:


> One can find advocates for every one of the Mahler symphonies including various reconstructions of the Tenth-none of which sound convincingly completed by Mahler to these ears.
> 
> For me, there is nothing like a masterful performance of the Eighth Symphony, as the one conducted by Pierre Boulez...one of his greatest performances, in my opinion.


As you saw above, I've been dithering about the Eighth; you may have just tipped the scale.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Totenfeier said:


> Hi, Captainnumber36, I'm Totenfeier, and I take my name from the generally accepted "nickname" for the first movement of his 2nd Symphony (the piece he based it on is also called "Totenfeier," written by the man himself earlier, and is occasionally performed as a stand-alone piece. It more or less means "Funeral Rites" in English).
> 
> From your post, I can't really tell how much experience you have with him (I'm assuming newbie; if that's not so, just blow off the rest of my post, as I will waste your time), but here's the thing about enjoying Mahler. You mention the "erratic" nature of his style; that's a feature, not a bug. As mentioned above, he once disagreed with the Finnish composer Jean Sibelius, who stated that he admired the symphonic form for its cohesion, focus and strict inner logic. "No," Mahler replied. "The symphony is like the world; it must contain everything." And his symphonies do contain every type of emotion (sometimes within bars of each other), and every kind of instrument, including a violin tuned a whole step up, cowbells, sleigh bells, ruthe ( a bound bundle of sticks usually used to hit the drumhead with, but which Mahler asks to be smacked against the _side_ of the drum), and, most famously, a "hammer," used to represent the "blow of fate" in the last movement of his 6th Symphony (Mahler wanted a strong, powerful, non-metallic sound, something like "an axe striking a tree," but couldn't find the exact sound or volume he wanted despite hitting several things with a large mallet - conductors have beer trying different things for decades, with varying degrees of success).
> 
> ...


Newbie!  Ha!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> Hi, Captainnumber36, I'm Totenfeier, and I take my name from the generally accepted "nickname" for the first movement of his 2nd Symphony (the piece he based it on is also called "Totenfeier," written by the man himself earlier, and is occasionally performed as a stand-alone piece. It more or less means "Funeral Rites" in English).
> 
> From your post, I can't really tell how much experience you have with him (I'm assuming newbie; if that's not so, just blow off the rest of my post, as I will waste your time), but here's the thing about enjoying Mahler. You mention the "erratic" nature of his style; that's a feature, not a bug. As mentioned above, he once disagreed with the Finnish composer Jean Sibelius, who stated that he admired the symphonic form for its cohesion, focus and strict inner logic. "No," Mahler replied. "The symphony is like the world; it must contain everything." And his symphonies do contain every type of emotion (sometimes within bars of each other), and every kind of instrument, including a violin tuned a whole step up, cowbells, sleigh bells, ruthe ( a bound bundle of sticks usually used to hit the drumhead with, but which Mahler asks to be smacked against the _side_ of the drum), and, most famously, a "hammer," used to represent the "blow of fate" in the last movement of his 6th Symphony (Mahler wanted a strong, powerful, non-metallic sound, something like "an axe striking a tree," but couldn't find the exact sound or volume he wanted despite hitting several things with a large mallet - conductors have beer trying different things for decades, with varying degrees of success).
> 
> ...


I wonder if people think the 7th is weird for Mahler only because everyone else says so and they end up believing it and listening to it only after having heard every other symphony.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> As you saw above, I've been dithering about the Eighth; you may have just tipped the scale.


Have you heard the Boulez?


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Newbie!  Ha!


:tiphat:


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Have you heard the Boulez?


Not yet. I've actually become a fanboy of sorts for the DG cycle otherwise.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mahler has single-handedly made checking out new longer works easier, 45 min symphony, sure, why not!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Regarding the 8th, let me put in a plug for the 2002 Proms performance with Simon Rattle and the National Youth Orchestra of GB available on YouTube. Those kids are fantastic and add an enthusiasm that their elders have long since lost. Also it is a complete performance rather than a recording done in bits so has the sense of continuity and completeness.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Chronochromie said:


> I wonder if people think the 7th is weird for Mahler only because everyone else says so and they end up believing it and listening to it only after having heard every other symphony.


It was, as I recall (this was about 40 years ago, mind you), the fifth Mahler symphony I ever heard (in order, the 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and 6th came first). I was still wildly experimenting with whatever came to hand, and hadn't yet grasped the arc of his works, nor did I know a thing about his life. But as to its weirdness: I can't speak for everybody, but opening with a tenor horn lament? Witches on broomsticks and ghosts bumping and bellowing at each other in the Scherzo? Whatthehell - mandolins? And then, without warning, the finale dumps us onto the street in the Vienna Ring in the middle of blazing daylight? Whatever it is, it sure is a ride!


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Becca said:


> Regarding the 8th, let me put in a plug for the 2002 Proms performance with Simon Rattle and the National Youth Orchestra of GB available on YouTube. Those kids are fantastic and add an enthusiasm that their elders have long since lost. Also it is a complete performance rather than a recording done in bits so has the sense of continuity and completeness.


Um...one question: is he being as "Rattle-y" as usual?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Totenfeier said:


> Um...one question: is he being as "Rattle-y" as usual?


If you mean 'is he micro-managing', while I am aware of his tendency that way even going back to his 20's, not that it has always bothered me, no I think not.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Did he compose any solo piano work?


You've already gotten an answer on this one, but I do want to suggest that perhaps you might look at Mahler's Piano Quartet Movement, composed for piano with string quartet. An early work which Mahler undertook in his mid-teens while at the Conservatory, the work was never completed beyond what was apparently the first movement. But if you want Mahler on piano, there's one place you'll find him.

Here's another. The Mahler piano rolls.






One note .... I sometimes wonder why folks ask for recommendations about what is best to listen to from a composer. Keep in mind that one person's medicine is another's poison. For every person who prefers _this_ or _that_ piece of music or interpretation there's one (or maybe many!) who hate it. One must decide for himself what gives enjoyment. Listening to music is, after all, a rather personal experience. You might actually love an interpretation of, say, Mahler's Fifth Symphony which has been panned by the critics. I despise so many of conductor Herbert von Karajan's interpretations, yet others love this stuff. Neither side is either right or wrong. Opinions differ, and deriving pleasure from listening to music is not something that is "fact" based.

The wonderful thing about being an explorer seeking out Mahler's music is that there is not a great deal of it, in numbered works that is. There_ is_ quite a lot in terms of interpretations available. Of course, part of the fun of being a music listener is seeking out new interpretations. I've heard dozens of different conductors and orchestras take on each of the Mahler symphonies; my collection includes at minimum a dozen complete sets of the composer's symphonies (as well as the two "Complete Ediiton" sets, the 18-disc DG box and the 16-disc EMI/Warner Classics box) and many more single discs. I've heard them all. And I cherish a moment to hear a new interpretation. (I already have my tickets for the Pittsburgh Symphony's Mahler Second to be performed at Heinz Hall in early June.)

So don't spend too much time asking about what to listen to or reading about recommendations. Rather, go hear for yourself. You can have a lifetime of enjoyment moving from one interpretation to the next in terms of Mahler symphonies. Those symphonies (and the song cycles, too) are so rich in texture and ideas that you'll never hear the same thing twice. And the moments of magic that you get from one work (or interpretation) to the next will vary. You may love one conductor's opening bars while you cherish another conductor's treatment of the rhythms and a different conductor's pacing of the choral moments. But with Mahler you'll probably never be disappointed.

Why not look into acquiring one (or both) of those Mahler boxes mentioned above. Either will provide a worthy starting point for your exploration of this most delightful music maker, Gustav Mahler.

Listen, and enjoy.







and/or


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> Not yet. I've actually become a fanboy of sorts for the DG cycle otherwise.


The Boulez Mahler 8 is a high point of the cycle, IMHO.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> You've already gotten an answer on this one, but I do want to suggest that perhaps you might look at Mahler's Piano Quartet Movement, composed for piano with string quartet. An early work which Mahler undertook in his mid-teens while at the Conservatory, the work was never completed beyond what was apparently the first movement. But if you want Mahler on piano, there's one place you'll find him.
> 
> Here's another. The Mahler piano rolls.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Though it is a bit funny that you preach about not listening to recommendations and then leave me with one! :lol:. I am going to listen to more of his symphonies before making the dive on a purchase though, I know I love the fifth so far, that blew me away!

I did listen to his Piano Quartet, it was awesome!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The Boulez Mahler 8 is a high point of the cycle, IMHO.


Boulez Mahler #9 /c CSO is outstanding...up there with Giulini, Walter


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I love all of Mahler symphonies....I guess I tend to favor 9,5,6...the orchestral ones...I think that #9 is one of the greatest works ever composed, by anyone...I love DLVDE also....splendid work.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

All the symphonies with a particular love for 2 and 8. But I also love Klagende Lied, DLVDE, all the song cycles and Wunderhorn. Basically all Mahler then. Ah well.:lol:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Just purchased the Abbado collection of the Symphonies! Excited about it, got great reviews on Amazon.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I don't believe that there are any sets which are consistently towards the top of most rankings. I am not even sure that there is any one conductor who has a solid grasp of all of the symphonies consequently my 'set' consists of Barbirolli, Klemperer, Abbado, Rattle and Tennstedt.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The Boulez Mahler 8 is a high point of the cycle, IMHO.


So I've been hearing. Will check it out. Thanks!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Becca said:


> I don't believe that there are any sets which are consistently towards the top of most rankings. I am not even sure that there is any one conductor who has a solid grasp of all of the symphonies consequently my 'set' consists of Barbirolli, Klemperer, Abbado, Rattle and Tennstedt.


I would have to add Bernstein to the mix, particularly his Second!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> It was, as I recall (this was about 40 years ago, mind you), the fifth Mahler symphony I ever heard (in order, the 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and 6th came first). I was still wildly experimenting with whatever came to hand, and hadn't yet grasped the arc of his works, nor did I know a thing about his life. But as to its weirdness: I can't speak for everybody, but opening with a tenor horn lament? Witches on broomsticks and ghosts bumping and bellowing at each other in the Scherzo? Whatthehell - mandolins? And then, without warning, the finale dumps us onto the street in the Vienna Ring in the middle of blazing daylight? Whatever it is, it sure is a ride!


I think it's his best.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Chronochromie said:


> I think it's his best.


Nobody said weird is bad!


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mahler has to be one of the weirdest composers I've come across, and I like it!


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Totenfeier said:


> Nobody said weird is bad!


Never said you did.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

hpowders said:


> The Boulez Mahler 8 is a high point of the cycle, IMHO.


This is great! Love it.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

I've heard quite a few of his symphonies (not all of them and I've not been comparing between directors like many of you) but am I the only one who tends to like his song cycles (including DLVDE) maybe even more? They are pure heaven to me. I think I like all of them for every note. The symphonies are really great but in comparison...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> This is great! Love it.


The Solti recording is the best one can get.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Heck148 said:


> Boulez Mahler #9 /c CSO is outstanding...up there with Giulini, Walter


A little "fast", but he makes it work.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> I've heard quite a few of his symphonies (not all of them and I've not been comparing between directors like many of you) but am I the only one who tends to like his song cycles (including DLVDE) maybe even more? They are pure heaven to me. I think I like all of them for every note. The symphonies are really great but in comparison...


Yeah. Kindertotenlieder is devastating.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Mahler has to be one of the weirdest composers I've come across, and I like it!


If it makes you happy we are happy too.


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Just purchased the Abbado collection of the Symphonies! Excited about it, got great reviews on Amazon.


I also just bought the Abbado set - I figure it is an economical way to get acquainted with Mahler's work.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

July 7th Gustav Mahler 1911


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