# Opera Queensland needs 200 naked women for a #MeToo take on Mozart's Don Giovanni



## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...-200-naked-women-mozart-don-giovanni/10256460


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

These modern directors have such a lack of respect for the composers! If they want to be faithful to the libretto, they will need, according to Leporello, at least 2065 naked women. Perhaps the audience could be asked to participate.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

In a production of _Powder Her Face_ at NYC Opera they had 25 nude men lounging about in scene 4. The original plan had been 88 nude men, too match the number she was accused of being with, but they couldn't get that many supers and/or decided it would take up too much of the stage.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seems to me this idiot has not just misunderstood Don G but also the #MeToo protests.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A quote from the director: "We want as many women as we can who are up for the adventure of tearing down to hell one of the great misogynistic womanisers in history, Don Juan.”

I’m confused. Definition of misogynistic: having or showing a hatred and distrust of women. Don Juan seems to neither hate nor distrust women. In fact he pursues them almost hyperactively. A womanizer, certainly. A misogynist? I can’t see it.

In any event, 200 naked women certainly won’t hurt the box office. But just who is it here disrespecting women?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> A quote from the director: "We want as many women as we can who are up for the adventure of tearing down to hell one of the great misogynistic womanisers in history, Don Juan."
> 
> I'm confused. Definition of misogynistic: having or showing a hatred and distrust of women. Don Juan seems to neither hate nor distrust women. In fact he pursues them almost hyperactively. A womanizer, certainly. A misogynist? I can't see it.
> 
> In any event, 200 naked women certainly won't hurt the box office. But just who is it here disrespecting women?


It does show just how little these directors understand - including the use of English adverbs. In fact if she actually knew the text (which she probably hasn't looked at before putting in her own potty ideas) she would have read that the Don's conquests in Spain alone numbered over 1000


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I'm confused. Definition of misogynistic: having or showing a hatred and distrust of women. Don Juan seems to neither hate nor distrust women. In fact he pursues them almost hyperactively. A womanizer, certainly. A misogynist? I can't see it.


I am thinking of a current, very prominent individual who manages to fit both conditions. (He is in the news quite a bit, especially over the last year or so, and probably does not need to be named directly.) Clearly, it is possible. Pursing women as objects or conquests is not necessarily a sign of affection, gentle dealing, admiration or empathy.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> These modern directors have such a lack of respect for the composers! If they want to be faithful to the libretto, they will need, according to Leporello, at least 2065 naked women. Perhaps the audience could be asked to participate.


Sounds far too vanilla to me. Surely it should be an all female cast with a trans, bisexual Giovanni...

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The Conte said:


> Sounds far too vanilla to me. Surely it should be an all female cast with a trans, bisexual Giovanni...
> 
> N.


A bisexual Don is an interesting possibility. His pathological womanizing could then be seen as an attempt to deny and conceal his attraction to men. After all, the libretto doesn't even try to explain it.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

One of the things that's always bothered me about DG is that he's obviously a rapist as we understand his actions now. He's presented in the opera as more of an anti-hero than an out and out villain, but he's truly one of the most monstrous predators in opera, far worse than Scarpia or the Duke of Mantua, and I find the lighthearted tone of much of the opera completely incongruous.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> One of the things that's always bothered me about DG is that he's obviously a rapist as we understand his actions now. He's presented in the opera as more of an anti-hero than an out and out villain, but he's truly one of the most monstrous predators in opera, far worse than Scarpia or the Duke of Mantua, and I find the lighthearted tone of much of the opera completely incongruous.


I've felt the same way, and judging by his disapproving remarks about this opera and _Cosi fan tutte_, Beethoven felt similarly. By our standards DG is a monster, and no one would accept this play as entertainment without Mozart's ebulliant score and the patina of "culture" that comes with classic opera. Opera may be entertainment, and these are comedies, but I personally don't feel entertained or amused by the "sugarcoating" of atrocious behavior, and partly for this reason have never been able to like either of these operas.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

howlingfantods said:


> One of the things that's always bothered me about DG is that he's obviously a rapist as we understand his actions now.


First a misogynist and now a rapist! "Rape is defined in most jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, committed by a perpetrator against a victim without their consent." Was that necessary for Joltin' Giovanni?

It seems to me that the ladies were happy enough to offer their charms without undue duress, if I remember the opera correctly. And the finale, where he receives his punishment - after all, he _did _volunteer! "My heart is firm within me, I have no fear, I'll come."


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> First a misogynist and now a rapist! "Rape is defined in most jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, committed by a perpetrator against a victim without their consent." Was that necessary for Joltin' Giovanni?
> 
> It seems to me that the ladies were happy enough to offer their charms without undue duress, if I remember the opera correctly. And the finale, where he receives his punishment - after all, he _did _volunteer! "My heart is firm within me, I have no fear, I'll come."


Don Giovanni Act 1 
Leporello to the Don:
Well done! Two misdeeds!
First you *raped the daughter *then murdered the father!


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

KenOC said:


> First a misogynist and now a rapist! "Rape is defined in most jurisdictions as sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, committed by a perpetrator against a victim without their consent." Was that necessary for Joltin' Giovanni?
> 
> It seems to me that the ladies were happy enough to offer their charms without undue duress, if I remember the opera correctly. And the finale, where he receives his punishment - after all, he _did _volunteer! "My heart is firm within me, I have no fear, I'll come."


The first scene has him struggling physically with Donna Anna while she screams for help and vows not to let him get away unless he kills her. Does that strike you as a consensual encounter?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> Don Giovanni Act 1
> Leporello to the Don:
> Well done! Two misdeeds!
> First you *raped the daughter *then murdered the father!


The translation I have:

LEPORELLO
Well done, the intention was pretty,
*Seduce the daughter,* and then dispatch the father!

DON GIOVANNI
He insisted on fighting.

http://www.opera-arias.com/mozart/don-giovanni/libretto/english/


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

NickFuller said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...-200-naked-women-mozart-don-giovanni/10256460


"So women can get their kit off"? I know what she means but the utilitarian sound of the word lacks poetry. Wouldn't it be much more of a social statement to request that the females in the _audience_ get their "kit" off in judgment of the opera's villain, especially the venerable matrons? It might save on the high price of tickets. Evidently, it's not enough that the villain is condemned to Hell - or is even Hell not worth going to in order to balance the scales of justice?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

KenOC said:


> The translation I have:
> 
> LEPORELLO
> Well done, the intention was pretty,
> ...


The next lines are:

LEPORELLO
And Donna Anna, did she ask for it too?

DON GIOVANNI
Keep quiet and don't bother me.

Like, if you can't read between the lines and see the rapey implication, more power to you I guess.

http://www.murashev.com/opera/Don_Giovanni_libretto_Italian_English


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The line in Italian is, "Sforzar la figlia, ed ammazzar il padre!" The verb "sforzare" here means "to force." That clearly translates as "rape" rather than "seduce." No doubt, both were in Don Giovanni's tool kit, and he used whichever he thought most likely to succeed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> The line in Italian is, "Sforzar la figlia, ed ammazzar il padre!" The verb "sforzare" here means "to force." That clearly translates as "rape" rather than "seduce." No doubt, both were in Don Giovanni's tool kit, and he used whichever he thought most likely to succeed.


In that case, point conceded!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> I've felt the same way, and judging by his disapproving remarks about this opera and _Cosi fan tutte_, Beethoven felt similarly. By our standards DG is a monster, and no one would accept this play as entertainment without Mozart's ebulliant score and the patina of "culture" that comes with classic opera. Opera may be entertainment, and these are comedies, but I personally don't feel entertained or amused by the *"sugarcoating" of atrocious behavior*, and partly for this reason have never been able to like either of these operas.


How do you feel about Tchaikovsky's Eugene Onegin, the wealthy ne'er-do-well who seems to wreak destruction where ever he goes, and wants to steal another man's wife?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

KenOC said:


> The translation I have:
> 
> LEPORELLO
> Well done, the intention was pretty,
> ...


Whatever the true meaning in Italian, presumably this made the cut as back then censors were more concerned that nothing should directly diss the Catholic church, whereas the ravishing of a girl by an aristocrat on a secular basis was accepted as sport to be had.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> . . . whereas the ravishing of a girl by an aristocrat on a secular basis was accepted as sport to be had.


Sadly, some things never change.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> How do you feel about Tchaikovsky's Eugene Onegin, the wealthy ne'er-do-well who seems to wreak destruction where ever he goes, and wants to steal another man's wife?


I really haven't thought much about Onegin. There are plenty of dislikable and even evil characters, but how I feel about them depends on how they're portrayed. Some villains have a certain compelling grandeur in their passionate conviction of their own righteousness (Wagner's tend to be like that). Others who act cruelly are complex, tortured people whose lives have gone wrong (Golaud and Boris come to mind). Scarpia and Iago are without conscience, but are balanced by the more sympathetic characters in their operas. _Don Giovanni_ is practically unique in being a work that places a cold moral cypher at the very center of an opera whose other characters do essentially nothing but stand around complaining about him, and by treating the whole thing as a comedy without a single edifying aspect - the Don's trip to hell, despite the spooky statue and music, can hardly balance the moral universe for anyone who finds the whole idea a quaint superstition - Mozart fails, for me, either to inspire or to entertain with his _dramma giocoso. _Some nice arias aren't enough for an evening in the theater unless the singers are fantastic and the tickets are cheap.

Yes, I know that _Don Giovanni_ has been called "the perfect opera." _Chacun..._


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> Whatever the true meaning in Italian, presumably this made the cut as back then censors were more concerned that nothing should directly diss the Catholic church, whereas the ravishing of a girl by an aristocrat on a secular basis was accepted as sport to be had.


Ravishing children appears to be not only a secular sport, but thus far no one (to my knowledge) has written an opera about it. I'm not sure even Mozart could make that palatable.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> I really haven't thought much about Onegin. There are plenty of dislikable and even evil characters, but how I feel about them depends on how they're portrayed. Some villains have a certain compelling grandeur in their passionate conviction of their own righteousness (Wagner's tend to be like that). Others who act cruelly are complex, tortured people whose lives have gone wrong (Golaud and Boris come to mind). Scarpia and Iago are without conscience, but are balanced by the more sympathetic characters in their operas. _Don Giovanni_ is practically unique in being a work that places a cold moral cypher at the very center of an opera whose other characters do essentially nothing but stand around complaining about him, and by treating the whole thing as a comedy without a single edifying aspect (the Don's trip to hell, despite the spooky statue and music, can hardly balance the moral universe for anyone who finds the whole idea a quaint superstition) Mozart fails, for me, either to inspire or to entertain with his _dramma giocoso. _Some nice arias aren't enough for an evening in the theater.
> 
> Yes, I know that _Don Giovanni_ has been called "the perfect opera." _Chacun..._


You have answered about Eugene Onegin by your analysis. Eugene is a dead serious opera. It shows the worthlessness of pursuing pure pleasure in a meaningless existence of having everything you want, and ends in the devastating effect of finding out the thing he wants most and that he once spurned, is now unavailable. It also shows a woman who takes seriously her commitments even though she wants something else.

The perfect opera is quite subjective. Right now I would say Bellini's La Sonnambula.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

R. Strauss seemed to have a favorable opinion of the Don...


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> The translation I have:
> 
> LEPORELLO
> Well done, the intention was pretty,
> ...


The word actually means 'force [yourself] upon' - ie rape.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I really wish directors stopped with the "Donna Anna was totaly into Giovanni!" take. (@Kaspar Holten what's good) It's so boring at this point. 

On the other hand, women killing him? Could be fun. Just don't make me remember that disgusting Bieito production.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Sieglinde said:


> *I really wish directors stopped with the "Donna Anna was totaly into Giovanni!" take. *(@Kaspar Holten what's good) It's so boring at this point.
> 
> On the other hand, women killing him? Could be fun. Just don't make me remember that disgusting Bieito production.


Makes much of the rest of the opera rather pointless.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> One of the things that's always bothered me about DG is that he's obviously a rapist as we understand his actions now. He's presented in the opera as more of an anti-hero than an out and out villain, but he's truly one of the most monstrous predators in opera, far worse than Scarpia or the Duke of Mantua, and I find the lighthearted tone of much of the opera completely incongruous.


The tone is lighthearted because that's how lots of rapists work. The majority of rapists are charming, manipulative. If they can get you to think they're "just joking", you might let your guard down and become potential prey. There is a reason why so many women develop Stockholm Syndrome as the result of violent sexual abuse. It's unfortunate, but it matches reality more than most would like to admit.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> I've felt the same way, and judging by his disapproving remarks about this opera and _Cosi fan tutte_, Beethoven felt similarly. By our standards DG is a monster, and no one would accept this play as entertainment without Mozart's ebulliant score and the patina of "culture" that comes with classic opera. Opera may be entertainment, and these are comedies, but I personally don't feel entertained or amused by the "*sugarcoating" of atrocious behavior*, and partly for this reason have never been able to like either of these operas.


The Don does actually get dragged down to hell. If he was anything less than the cad he is - being sent to hell would be the wrong conclusion.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> The word actually means 'force [yourself] upon' - ie rape.


Did you check out the exact translation from Italian?

In the context Leporello is hardly going to use the words rape or assault - and "seduce" can serve as a euphemism for something non consensual. 
Bear in mind in 18thC europe - noblemen would force themselves in peasant girls/servants and get away with it - so what DG attempts with Zerlina is no surprise. But forcing himself on a noblewoman demonstrates he does not modify his sexual behaviour too much to suit the social setting. I dont understand the issues people have with all this - yes the liklihood is DG has committed rape - on children even - but he reaps what he has sown, as it were. His bravura when challenged by Ottavio at the end of act 1 seems a bit over the top - quite rousing words he uses - given that he's an utter bounder and worse and I like to hear evil sadstic laughter as he escapes the scene.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

stomanek said:


> *Did you check out the exact translation from Italian?
> *
> In the context Leporello is hardly going to use the words rape or assault - and "seduce" can serve as a euphemism for something non consensual.
> Bear in mind in 18thC europe - noblemen would force themselves in peasant girls/servants and get away with it - so what DG attempts with Zerlina is no surprise. But forcing himself on a noblewoman demonstrates he does not modify his sexual behaviour too much to suit the social setting. I dont understand the issues people have with all this - yes the liklihood is DG has committed rape - on children even - but he reaps what he has sown, as it were. His bravura when challenged by Ottavio at the end of act 1 seems a bit over the top - quite rousing words he uses - given that he's an utter bounder and worse and I like to hear evil sadstic laughter as he escapes the scene.


Yes I checked - it means 'rape'

We of course don't know whether he managed to actually do it. That's just what conclusion Leporello has briefly come to - 'rape the daughter and kill her father'


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