# Recommendation needed: something off the beaten track. ONE PIECE!!!



## ScottK

Looking at threads, the sheer quantity of compositions listed by non-standard names is both impressive and overwhelming. I want ONE piece that sounds like a good shot to introduce a lover of the standard romantic repertoire to a brand new name!


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## Art Rock

Raff - Symphony No. 5 'Lenore'


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## RobertJTh

Berwald's 3rd Symphony, "Singulière".
It's a piece that's immediately accessible, will surprise you because of its modernity (written in 1845, it sometimes sounds like neo-classical Stravinsky) and has further innovation in the form of a moving adagio that has a scherzo in the middle.


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## joen_cph

If you mean by lesser known composers from that period, try *Volkmann's Cello Concerto*, nice.






If you'd also accept lesser known works by main composers, I'd substitute it with _Liszt's Christus Oratorio._


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## HerbertNorman

Franz Schmidt - Symphony no. 4

This is one they recommended me when I posed a similar question  and it is well worth it!!!


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## ScottK

Raff - Symphony No. 5 'Lenore

Awesome start to my quest!...Lenore #5...high spirited lyricism is me all the way and that opening movement is just wonderful! Thank you.


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## CnC Bartok

Maybe try Granville Bantock's beautiful Celtic Symphony?

Or Julian Rontgen's Violin Concerto in A minor?


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## mbhaub

Richard Arnell: Symphony no. 3


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## Alfacharger

John Paine, Symphony 2, "Im Fruhling".


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## Rogerx

Joachim Raff - Cello Concerto no. 1

preferably played by Daniel Muller Schott.


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## 89Koechel

OK, here's one more ... it's from Cornelius Dopper, and his "Gothic Chaconne", conducted by the late Willem Mengelberg & the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, of that time. You can find it on YouTube ... and it's truly excellent.


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## joen_cph

mbhaub said:


> Richard Arnell: Symphony no. 3


It's a work from 1944; I was a bit unsure about what the OP meant by stuff being along the lines of 'standard romantic repertoire', but thought 'probably ~1820-1870'.


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## perdido34

Ernesto Halffter's Sinfonietta


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## mbhaub

joen_cph said:


> It's a work from 1944; I was a bit unsure about what the OP meant by stuff being along the lines of 'standard romantic repertoire', but thought 'probably ~1820-1870'.


The original was " I want ONE piece that sounds like a good shot *to introduce a lover of the standard romantic repertoire* to a brand new name!"

Someone who loves the standard rep should have no trouble loving Arnell's symphony. It is very romantic in feeling and in the writing. He didn't say the recommendation had to be from the romantic era.


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## joen_cph

mbhaub said:


> The original was " I want ONE piece that sounds like a good shot *to introduce a lover of the standard romantic repertoire* to a brand new name!"
> 
> Someone who loves the standard rep should have no trouble loving Arnell's symphony. It is very romantic in feeling and in the writing. He didn't say the recommendation had to be from the romantic era.


Since the OP hasn't commented on the issue so far, and posted likes for both Arnell and Halffter, your thinking probably applies. Obviously, this leaves a lot of free space.


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## ScottK

RobertJTh said:


> Berwald's 3rd Symphony, "Singulière".
> It's a piece that's immediately accessible, will surprise you because of its modernity (written in 1845, it sometimes sounds like neo-classical Stravinsky) and has further innovation in the form of a moving adagio that has a scherzo in the middle.


I'm flying along here, 2 for 2! You were absolutely right about the accessibility. My impression after listening to this and the Raff symphony is that the orchestra sounds like it's darkening towards what I think of as a romantic sound but the high spirits feel more akin to the Classical world...like they aren't into the moodiness of what's coming. And since I LOVE optimistic sounding music, you're doing me a big favor, many thanks!!!


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## ScottK

joen_cph said:


> Since the OP hasn't commented on the issue so far, and posted likes for both Arnell and Halffter, your thinking probably applies. Obviously, this leaves a lot of free space.


Lots of free space! Was indicating my tastes, NOT where recommendations should come from. They can come from anywhere....and thank you for the consideration the question is receiving!


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## ScottK

joen_cph said:


> If you mean by lesser known composers from that period, try *Volkmann's Cello Concerto*, nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd also accept lesser known works by main composers, I'd substitute it with _Liszt's Christus Oratorio._


Volkmann does not let me down! And I think I will listen to the Liszt, which is certainly not familiar to me, to break up the sound by getting some voices in there. Thank you for these!!!


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## Marsilius

Symphony no. 4 by Paul Buttner (1870-1943) - his other three symphonies are also very enjoyable but this is, I think, the best.


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## Josquin13

--Charles Koechlin, the composer's 1949 chamber arrangement of his 1915-16 solo piano work, "Paysages et Marines" (or "Landscapes and Seascapes"):

Nos. 1-5





Nos. 6-12





& if you'd like to hear the original piano version--which some listeners might prefer, I'd recommend pianist Michael Korstick's recording: 




(If that inspires you to hear something else, I'd recommend Koechlin's first string quartet from 1911-13: 



)


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## Azol

ScottK said:


> ONE piece that sounds like a good shot to introduce a lover of the standard romantic repertoire to a brand new name!


*Granville Bantock - The Sea Reivers*





Romantic blockbuster in less than 4 minutes. Brilliant!


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## Alfacharger

I'm will throw in a famous romantic composer name into the list with a very early work.

Robert Schumann and his unfinished "Zwickau Symphony" of 1832. Pure romantic Schumann and I hear no problems with orchestration!


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## Manxfeeder

CnC Bartok said:


> Maybe try Granville Bantock's beautiful Celtic Symphony?


I'll second that one. I heard that for the first time on the radio with my 16-year-old daughter, who was into country music at the time, and the next day we went out and bought it. (That's back when you could actually go to a record store and find something like that.)


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## Dirge

Luigi CHERUBINI (1760-1842): Requiem in C minor (1816)
:: Muti/Philharmonia Orchestra & Ambrosian Singers [EMI '80]





Cherubini isn't far off the beaten track if he's off the beaten track at all, but I'll recommend him anyhow. Beethoven cited him as the greatest of his contemporaries and requested that the Requiem in C minor be played at his funeral … and it was.


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## ScottK

Alfacharger said:


> I'm will throw in a famous romantic composer name into the list with a very early work.
> 
> Robert Schumann and his unfinished "Zwickau Symphony" of 1832. Pure romantic Schumann and I hear no problems with orchestration!


I've been blessed with the INABILITY to hear Schumann's faults in that arena so I'll be all over this! Thanks.


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## ScottK

Azol said:


> *Granville Bantock - The Sea Reivers*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Romantic blockbuster in less than 4 minutes. Brilliant!


4 minutes makes me break my order on this journey and jump ahead! Glad I did! This thing would get any concert off to a great start! Does it show up in the overture/short piece spot very often in concerts? I'm saying this all the time but...I loved it!


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## ScottK

HerbertNorman said:


> Franz Schmidt - Symphony no. 4
> 
> This is one they recommended me when I posed a similar question  and it is well worth it!!!


My Dad went looking for new names years ago - without the assist of a group like this! - and the CD I remember him getting was some Schmidt Symphony. I keep saying this but every piece I've listened to so far has been a hit. Brahms???.......................... who needs Brahms! Thank you!!!


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## ScottK

CnC Bartok said:


> Maybe try Granville Bantock's beautiful Celtic Symphony?
> 
> Or Julian Rontgen's Violin Concerto in A minor?


Gorgeous Celtic Symphony, can't wait for the Violin Concerto!


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## hammeredklavier




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## jim prideaux

Been banging on about the two Kalinnikov symphonies on here over the last few years.......might be just what you are looking for!

I also really enjoy Berwald so that might provide soe degree of confidence in my recommendation......

let me/us know what you think!


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## Roger Knox

jim prideaux said:


> Been banging on about the two Kalinnikov symphonies on here over the last few years.......might be just what you are looking for!


I certainly support your recommendation of the Kallinikov symphonies, especially the first.


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## ScottK

jim prideaux said:


> Been banging on about the two Kalinnikov symphonies on here over the last few years.......might be just what you are looking for!
> 
> I also really enjoy Berwald so that might provide soe degree of confidence in my recommendation......
> 
> let me/us know what you think!


My success rate so far could not be higher so Im looking forward to Kalinnikov! Going through these methodically......I will get to them and get to them eagerly! I'll letcha know!


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## Rogerx

Dirge said:


> Luigi CHERUBINI (1760-1842): Requiem in C minor (1816)
> :: Muti/Philharmonia Orchestra & Ambrosian Singers [EMI '80]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cherubini isn't far off the beaten track if he's off the beaten track at all, but I'll recommend him anyhow. Beethoven cited him as the greatest of his contemporaries and requested that the Requiem in C minor be played at his funeral … and it was.


I agree with you all the way, however, I wonder if it meeting OP criteria .


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## Becca

ScottK said:


> Gorgeous Celtic Symphony, can't wait for the Violin Concerto!


The Celtic is a late (1940) work so now you should go back to his earlier Pagan & Hebridean symphonies.

For more recent works which may well fit into your criteria, try George Lloyd (8th or 11th), Edmund Rubbra (5th) and Eduard Tubin (4th).


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## ScottK

Rogerx said:


> I agree with you all the way, however, I wonder if it meeting OP criteria .


I'm familiar with the name Cherubini but that is all. When I get there this will be a new experience....and even if it weren't, I'm not a stickler! You're all turning me on to gret music!


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## Art Rock

I think what Rogerx is referring to is that you opened this thread in the Orchestral Music subforum, which suggests you are not interested in e.g. chamber music or requiems.


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## ScottK

Art Rock said:


> I think what Rogerx is referring to is that you opened this thread in the Orchestral Music subforum, which suggests you are not interested in e.g. chamber music or requiems.


Gotcha!

Yes, I was not looking closely at the genre. Symphonic pieces are what I stated as my search and I don't want to interfere with the organization that is set so well in place here. But if a requiem or chamber piece is recommended I will definitely listen.


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## SONNET CLV

Art Rock said:


> Raff - Symphony No. 5 'Lenore'


What a start to a fine (so far) thread. I, however, would have nominated Raff's Symphony No. 3 "Im Wald", had I been so inclined to introduce someone to Raff.









Instead, _this_ is my pick for this thread: Symphony No.4 by Portuguese composer Joly Braga Santos.









I suspect that a listen to the "romantically" inclined fourth movement (Lento), 16 minutes in length, will draw one to hear the remainder of the symphony, and then repeat that finale.

And then go on to explore other symphonies (and works) by this fine Portuguese composer, whose dates (1924-1988) are modern but whose music is universally Romantic.


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## ScottK

SONNET CLV said:


> What a start to a fine (so far) thread. I, however, would have nominated Raff's Symphony No. 3 "Im Wald", had I been so inclined to introduce someone to Raff.
> 
> View attachment 163122
> 
> 
> Instead, _this_ is my pick for this thread: Symphony No.4 by Portuguese composer Joly Braga Santos.
> 
> View attachment 163123
> 
> 
> I suspect that a listen to the "romantically" inclined fourth movement (Lento), 16 minutes in length, will draw one to hear the remainder of the symphony, and then repeat that finale.
> 
> And then go on to explore other symphonies (and works) by this fine Portuguese composer, whose dates (1924-1988) are modern but whose music is universally Romantic.


With an intro like that you can rest assured I will be starting with the 4th movement!!!


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## new but obsessed

This may be a bit out of left field as it's somewhat of a cross-over recording. And it came across my path from my non-classical references where I usually pick up my rock and alternative music.






I've loved Beth Gibbons since my teen years when I discovered Portishead. I otherwise knew nothing about this Gorecki piece, which I later learned was a relatively popular modern classical piece in its day.

Anyway, tossing this specific recording out there because it's certainly non-standard, even unusual, and quite contemporary (released 2019).

And like the OP, I'm eager to devour the recommendations on this thread so far!


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## Alfacharger

Fwkix Draeseke Symphony "Tragica"






Or Hermann Goetz Symphony in F


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## ScottK

mbhaub said:


> Richard Arnell: Symphony no. 3


Well, well, well...I am most eager, if I can get it, to have your take on Mr. Arnell's 3rd. You were absolutely right, just filled with mid, late-romantic sound and I'm very glad I listened but he will take a little of my gee-willickers tone out. No lack of confidence that Mr. Arnell. Do you find any of those movements a little directionless? Not trying to talk you into it, just curious.


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## ScottK

Alfacharger said:


> John Paine, Symphony 2, "Im Fruhling".


Gorgeous! I'd look forward to a concert with this on the program !!! Thank you!!


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## ScottK

Marsilius said:


> Symphony no. 4 by Paul Buttner (1870-1943) - his other three symphonies are also very enjoyable but this is, I think, the best.


From beginning to end!!! If he has a problem it would be the Dvorak problem...too much delightful sounding music!! After I've listened to all of the recommendations, I will listen to his other symphonies! Thanx!!


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## Marsilius

I'm delighted to see that you enjoyed my Buttner recommendation so much. He is, I think, in urgent need of rediscovery and modern studio recording.


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## Tarneem

if you love Bruckner, you would like Richard Wetz symphonies


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## ScottK

Tarneem said:


> if you love Bruckner, you would like Richard Wetz symphonies


And I do love Bruckner, Thanks! Not rushing through this but Im not missing a piece that's been recommended. I'll let you know when I listen. Do you have a symphony number for starters?


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## Dirge

Art Rock said:


> I think what Rogerx is referring to is that you opened this thread in the Orchestral Music subforum, which suggests you are not interested in e.g. chamber music or requiems.


Woops. You and Rogerx are right: I failed to pay attention to the forum/subforum topic when responding. I'll try to come up with a really good _on-topic_ response/suggestion to redeem myself....


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## Dirge

Albert ROUSSEL: Symphony No. 2 (1921)
:: Jean Martinon/Orchestre national de l'ORTF [Erato '69]





This is an extremely eclectic and varied 40-minute symphony into which Roussel throws everything, including the kitchen sink. It's a Janus/transitional work with characteristics of all of Roussel's music-past, present, and future-present in various measures and states of development. Indeed, it often sounds like an internal tug of war between the Late Romanticism/French Impressionism of the composer's past and the gruff chromatic neoclassicism of his future. With every tug this way or that, the dense, intricate music morphs into some new hybrid of these opposing forces that's all the more complex and interesting and compelling for the internal strife. I'm rarely sure of what form the outer movements are in at any given moment, but they have a constantly striving/struggling feel about them within a brooding and despairing moody atmosphere. The middle movement is effectively a scherzo & trio that's lighter in mood, but there's always a sense that Roussel is skating away on the thin ice of the new day. There are some less-tense and even cathartic episodes to be found here, the work's ending being the most profound instance, but tension/anxiety never entirely dissipates even then.

Whatever form the music takes, almost every episode reminds me, however tenuously, of some other music or composer: Debussy, Ravel, d'Indy, Dukas, Bartók, Prokofiev, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Bax, Bridge, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, even Roussel himself, all come to mind at one time or another, as do others. Nothing sounds derivative or paraphrased, however; it's often just a similarity in orchestration or telltale rhythmic or harmonic traits here or there, but it's just enough to kindle a fuzzy sense of recognition.

Martinon manages tension masterfully and leads the most purposeful and expressively dramatic account of this work that I've heard, generally sounding a bit less polished and suave, more rugged and elemental than the competition: Dutoit [Erato], Dervaux [EMI], Janowski [RCA], Eschenbach [Ondine], Denève [Naxos], and probably others. The recorded sound is very good on the whole, and the ORTF plays about as well as I've heard it play.


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## ScottK

Dirge said:


> Albert ROUSSEL: Symphony No. 2 (1921)
> :: Jean Martinon/Orchestre national de l'ORTF [Erato '69]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an extremely eclectic and varied 40-minute symphony into which Roussel throws everything, including the kitchen sink. It's a Janus/transitional work with characteristics of all of Roussel's music-past, present, and future-present in various measures and states of development. Indeed, it often sounds like an internal tug of war between the Late Romanticism/French Impressionism of the composer's past and the gruff chromatic neoclassicism of his future. With every tug this way or that, the dense, intricate music morphs into some new hybrid of these opposing forces that's all the more complex and interesting and compelling for the internal strife. I'm rarely sure of what form the outer movements are in at any given moment, but they have a constantly striving/struggling feel about them within a brooding and despairing moody atmosphere. The middle movement is effectively a scherzo & trio that's lighter in mood, but there's always a sense that Roussel is skating away on the thin ice of the new day. There are some less-tense and even cathartic episodes to be found here, the work's ending being the most profound instance, but tension/anxiety never entirely dissipates even then.
> 
> Whatever form the music takes, almost every episode reminds me, however tenuously, of some other music or composer: Debussy, Ravel, d'Indy, Dukas, Bartók, Prokofiev, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Bax, Bridge, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, even Roussel himself, all come to mind at one time or another, as do others. Nothing sounds derivative or paraphrased, however; it's often just a similarity in orchestration or telltale rhythmic or harmonic traits here or there, but it's just enough to kindle a fuzzy sense of recognition.
> 
> Martinon manages tension masterfully and leads the most purposeful and expressively dramatic account of this work that I've heard, generally sounding a bit less polished and suave, more rugged and elemental than the competition: Dutoit [Erato], Dervaux [EMI], Janowski [RCA], Eschenbach [Ondine], Denève [Naxos], and probably others. The recorded sound is very good on the whole, and the ORTF plays about as well as I've heard it play.


I don't know what I'm more eager to do...listen to the music or re-read your wonderful description!!! Including that ever-so-smooth accounting for the derivative-ness :lol::lol: only teasing!!! Loved your account and can't wait. Will let you know when I've listened. Many Thanks!


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## ScottK

Alfacharger said:


> I'm will throw in a famous romantic composer name into the list with a very early work.
> 
> Robert Schumann and his unfinished "Zwickau Symphony" of 1832. Pure romantic Schumann and I hear no problems with orchestration!


I love Shumann and this symphony felt like a break from the pioneering through new beautiful sounds that I've been doing. This felt so much like fully formed Shumann, I guess younger fully formed, but still the muscular lyricism and cheerful dark tones that I associate with him were all there. This will "come off the shelf"!! Thanks much.


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## Kreisler jr

I had known Roussel's 3rd and 4th symphony for some time and liked them and have to admit that I was rather disappointed by the first two symphonies when I got them on Naxos a year or two ago. They are worth trying but I found them a bit sprawling and the more terse and "classicist" 3+4 more to my liking.


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## ScottK

Kreisler jr said:


> I had known Roussel's 3rd and 4th symphony for some time and liked them and have to admit that I was rather disappointed by the first two symphonies when I got them on Naxos a year or two ago. They are worth trying but I found them a bit sprawling and the more terse and "classicist" 3+4 more to my liking.


I was out and about and wanted to listen to something from this thread but didn't want to take the time to log in and I remembered someone saying something about Roussel 3 & 4 !! Megahits!! Both! I love music with tons going on and man he's got a lot going on! Coarse AND lyric and he gets on with it!

I had started the 3rd the first time and glanced down at the length of the music and saw high twenty minutes and wasn't sure if it was the symphony or the movement. I was going "...oh this sounds great, but if its one of these mega long things they just don't pan out as often!" Fortunately his length was closer to Mozart than Bruckner. While I'm navigating my list I rarely do a second piece before something else someone recommended but I just had to. They're both terrific!

Now I hope I disagree with you about 1 & 2 !


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## SanAntone

*Joan Tower *- _Snow Dreams_


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## ScottK

jim prideaux said:


> Been banging on about the two Kalinnikov symphonies on here over the last few years.......might be just what you are looking for!
> 
> I also really enjoy Berwald so that might provide soe degree of confidence in my recommendation......
> 
> let me/us know what you think!


Alright, your Buddy Kalinnikov! I'm actually listening to the end of the 1st symphony right now. Listened to the first two movements a ways back and listened to the whole thing tonight and again, this Forum is sending me stuff I love knowing! I'd love to hear this piece live!!

Now I find that your Mr. Kalinnikov is, in his own way.... provocative! I'm an opera lover who believes that one of the major bogeymen facing the modern opera composer is MELODY! I believe they long ago became afraid of it and, because of that, it has not been a major force in the music;has not been something they've grappled with and allowed to evolve. I think they've relegated it to a bit players role for fear that if they use it in a big way they will be perceived to be light. Sounds to me like a pitcher deciding not to use a fast-ball because its too obvious!...oh yeah, you're English!...sorry, no cricket or soccer analogies coming out of this boy!

Your Mr. Kalinnikov has no such fear! I love music filled with melody, I just want the composer to do a good job with it!! His music is filled to the brim, even by the standard of his day. The provocative part???....it has to be acknowledged that he is not overly concerned with tension. Some of those melodies are almost shockingly devoid of tension. I don't need Shostakovich but, if he hasn't gotten what might seem to be his due, that might be part of it.

But that's the wannabe critic in me talking. Fortunately I get better at shutting him up (once I've had a spiel like this  ) After I hear some other pieces I'll be back for number 2. And if I ever get lucky enough to hear this live, I'll be sure to let you know. Thanks much Jim!


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> The Celtic is a late (1940) work so now you should go back to his earlier Pagan & Hebridean symphonies.
> 
> For more recent works which may well fit into your criteria, try George Lloyd (8th or 11th), Edmund Rubbra (5th) and Eduard Tubin (4th).


Pagan and Hebridean! Both very much enjoyed, especially the Hebridean. Pagan gave me a little more the English Pastoral feel which I enjoy but not as much as the Hebridean. Not so quick to label that one but the he seemed to come at you with more oomph and and a greater variety of souunds. I'll return to the Hebridean for sure.And I'll be on to your other recommendations soon. Thanks much!


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## Azol

ScottK said:


> And I do love Bruckner, Thanks! Not rushing through this but Im not missing a piece that's been recommended. I'll let you know when I listen. Do you have a symphony number for starters?


For Richard Wetz, go with Symphony No. 2 as it's most consistent and enjoyable for listeners coming from Bruckner.
Bantock's Hebridean Symphony is a showpiece indeed, very picturesque, highly entertaining (no matter what Hurwitz says) but make sure you listen to Vernon Handley recording, as it's the only available recording with top-notch playing (and it's a must for this symphony!)


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## Joachim Raff

I could say Raff but then that would be expected. One piece I find absolutely engaging, exciting and a little Manfred thrown in is Taneyev Symphony No.4. Unfortunately most interpretations are lame to say the least, apart from one. This one. Fasten your seatbelts and enjoy the ride


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## Strange Magic

If you can find it, Alan Hovhaness' Violin Concerto No.2, Opus 89a (or just 89) is a piercingly beautiful work that, to my knowledge, has only been recorded once. MGM Records recorded it back in the 1950s, with Anahid Ajemian as soloist and the MGM house orchestra under Carlos Surinach--it may still be available on either the MGM label (they recorded much Hovhaness back in the day) or on the MGM-owned Heliodor label, as LPs. I am told it is available on Spotify, but luckily I have it on a homemade CD that I cut from the LP. I do not understand why this wonderful work has not been again recorded. Anahid Ajemian was the sister of Maro Ajemian, who premiered Hovhaness' equally fine Piano Concerto No.1, "Lousadzak", working closely with Hovhaness--I assume that Anahid Ajemian likely also premiered the violin concerto, both available on the same LP.


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## ScottK

Joachim Raff said:


> I could say Raff but then that would be expected. One piece I find absolutely engaging, exciting and a little Manfred thrown in is Taneyev Symphony No.4. Unfortunately most interpretations are lame to say the least, apart from one. This one. Fasten your seatbelts and enjoy the ride


So your boy Raff is covered....very first rec I got was #5 by Art Rock and it is already a functioning part of my library coming off the shelf with Strauss and Mozart! Touched 3 and stumbled on the beginning of 11 and I'm a fan!!!

Came here looking for something quick to listen to while I worked so I broke my order and put on Taneyev, the first thing I saw. Only got halfway through the 2nd movement but again, this is a wonderful ride!!! Thanks loads, can't wait for the rest!
Manfred???.......Schumann??


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## ScottK

Joachim Raff said:


> I could say Raff but then that would be expected. One piece I find absolutely engaging, exciting and a little Manfred thrown in is Taneyev Symphony No.4. Unfortunately most interpretations are lame to say the least, apart from one. This one. Fasten your seatbelts and enjoy the ride


Finished annnnnnnnddd???........ Taneyev Rocks!!! And its clear from the outset that Svetlanov has everything well in hand. Great recommendation, Thanks so much! This will come off the shelf!!!


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## Becca

While I have posted this elsewhere, it can't hurt to mention it here especially given some of the works that you have enjoyed...

Alexander Brincken ... Symphony #4 from 1992






Give the first 6 minutes a try...


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## ScottK

Kreisler jr said:


> I had known Roussel's 3rd and 4th symphony for some time and liked them and have to admit that I was rather disappointed by the first two symphonies when I got them on Naxos a year or two ago. They are worth trying but I found them a bit sprawling and the more terse and "classicist" 3+4 more to my liking.


Turns out I do disagree about number two. At first I thought it might be worth hearing but a definite one and done but that didn't last long. Impact is surely different from3 and 4 , and on one hearing I won't try and elaborate, but this only adds to my growing fondness!

Give another listen  !!!


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## ScottK

Dirge said:


> Albert ROUSSEL: Symphony No. 2 (1921)
> :: Jean Martinon/Orchestre national de l'ORTF [Erato '69]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an extremely eclectic and varied 40-minute symphony into which Roussel throws everything, including the kitchen sink. It's a Janus/transitional work with characteristics of all of Roussel's music-past, present, and future-present in various measures and states of development. Indeed, it often sounds like an internal tug of war between the Late Romanticism/French Impressionism of the composer's past and the gruff chromatic neoclassicism of his future. With every tug this way or that, the dense, intricate music morphs into some new hybrid of these opposing forces that's all the more complex and interesting and compelling for the internal strife. I'm rarely sure of what form the outer movements are in at any given moment, but they have a constantly striving/struggling feel about them within a brooding and despairing moody atmosphere. The middle movement is effectively a scherzo & trio that's lighter in mood, but there's always a sense that Roussel is skating away on the thin ice of the new day. There are some less-tense and even cathartic episodes to be found here, the work's ending being the most profound instance, but tension/anxiety never entirely dissipates even then.
> 
> Whatever form the music takes, almost every episode reminds me, however tenuously, of some other music or composer: Debussy, Ravel, d'Indy, Dukas, Bartók, Prokofiev, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Bax, Bridge, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, even Roussel himself, all come to mind at one time or another, as do others. Nothing sounds derivative or paraphrased, however; it's often just a similarity in orchestration or telltale rhythmic or harmonic traits here or there, but it's just enough to kindle a fuzzy sense of recognition.
> 
> Martinon manages tension masterfully and leads the most purposeful and expressively dramatic account of this work that I've heard, generally sounding a bit less polished and suave, more rugged and elemental than the competition: Dutoit [Erato], Dervaux [EMI], Janowski [RCA], Eschenbach [Ondine], Denève [Naxos], and probably others. The recorded sound is very good on the whole, and the ORTF plays about as well as I've heard it play.


Took me a little longer than 3 and 4 but I got there!! Very different from the two later symphonies and elusive enough, for me at least, that I wont attempt to anatomize the differences after one hearing but I got what I came for! Thqanks much and go ahead and put another rec on here if you like!


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## Joachim Raff

If you want a 'Romantic' Piano Concerto, I recommend this one. Very much in the Rachmaninov mould and tunes are absolutely gorgeous. Open can of your infamous Danish Beer and listen to 'probably the best piano concerto in world'


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> While I have posted this elsewhere, it can't hurt to mention it here especially given some of the works that you have enjoyed...
> 
> Alexander Brincken ... Symphony #4 from 1992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give the first 6 minutes a try...


All the way to 8 minutes and he's FUN!!!! If we weren't getting ready to watch Grantchester I'd keep going right now. loved it! 
A little Phillip Glass in his approach? or descended from a common ape? or am I out to lunch?


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## Becca

ScottK said:


> All the way to 8 minutes and he's FUN!!!! If we weren't getting ready to watch Grantchester I'd keep going right now. loved it!
> A little Philpip Glass in his approach? or descended from a common ape? or am I out to lunch?


LOL ... I would never have thought of it but I see the point, however Brincken knows when to change gears!


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> LOL ... I would never have thought of it but I see the point, however Brincken knows when to change gears!


..........:tiphat:........


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> LOL ... I would never have thought of it but I see the point, however Brincken knows when to change gears!


I'm in the 2nd movement and I've got to ask, I'm confused. I keep thinking that there's intentional dissonance but then I was thinking that nothing else in the movement sounds like that would be the case. ...the horn ( that's a French horn right?)....is it having some trouble? or is it something thats done right but lost on me? I'm still in love with the piece!


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## Becca

I don't remember anything untoward - dissonance perhaps, but it seemed to belong. What time point?


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> I don't remember anything untoward - dissonance perhaps, but it seemed to belong. What time point?


I'm sure you're right. I'll find some spots tomorrow.

It hit me strange. It seemed a straighforward enough piece that if a dissonance landed it would land squarely as a dissonance. But I kept feeling I was hearing sounds that were neither nor.

But my ear is an appreciators ear not a musicians. I'll find some sections tomorrow.


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## Rach Man

Have you heard:

Lutoslawski: Concerto for Orchestra









This is a wonderful piece. I highly recommend Dohnanyi with the Cleveland Orchestra. 
You also get the Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra on that disc.

But if you haven't heard the Lutoslawski, it is brilliant.


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## ScottK

Rach Man said:


> Have you heard:
> 
> Lutoslawski: Concerto for Orchestra
> 
> View attachment 164515
> 
> 
> This is a wonderful piece. I highly recommend Dohnanyi with the Cleveland Orchestra.
> You also get the Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra on that disc.
> 
> But if you haven't heard the Lutoslawski, it is brilliant.


I most definitely have not....but I will soon!!!


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## Prodromides

Eugène Ysaÿe: _Extase_ for violin & orchestra (1921)


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> I don't remember anything untoward - dissonance perhaps, but it seemed to belong. What time point?


So I went and found one of those spots...and since I found it, I was at that point having the same response. But after a few listens it clearly had nothing wrong. Maybe something about the sound of the horn in that kind of beautiful hazy background made some passing intended dissonance loom larger or something i just can't explain.

So, two movements are wonderful! Will report after I'm done with the whole.


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## ScottK

SanAntone said:


> *Joan Tower *- _Snow Dreams_


Wild choice! Nice variety amidst the more traditionally Romantic sounds I've been listening to. Thank you much!


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> While I have posted this elsewhere, it can't hurt to mention it here especially given some of the works that you have enjoyed...
> 
> Alexander Brincken ... Symphony #4 from 1992
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give the first 6 minutes a try...


Glorious, just Glorious!!! I loved it. When it got quiet at the end I thought,He IS NOT going to give this thing a quiet ending!!! and of course, I was right! Loved it Becca, thanks so much. I'll listen to this plenty. Post anything else you've got, I'll give it a try.


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## Becca

ScottK said:


> Glorious, just Glorious!!! I loved it. When it got quiet at the end I thought,He IS NOT going to give this thing a quiet ending!!! and of course, I was right! Loved it Becca, thanks so much. I'll listen to this plenty. Post anything else you've got, I'll give it a try.


George Lloyd's 11th from 1985...


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## ScottK

Becca said:


> George Lloyd's 11th from 1985...


I thought I had responded already but yet another hit! Grit and lyricism , fantastic! BUTTTTTT!!! Is this a one movement piece? Thought the Brincken was but found the other movements. One look here turned up nothing. Are there some more movements lying around?


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## Art Rock

Lloyd 11 is in five movements and lasts about an hour or so.

You can find all five moments here (the video starts with the 10th, but look at the contents):


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## dko22

ScottK said:


> Glorious, just Glorious!!! I loved it. When it got quiet at the end I thought,He IS NOT going to give this thing a quiet ending!!! and of course, I was right! Loved it Becca, thanks so much. I'll listen to this plenty. Post anything else you've got, I'll give it a try.


I don't need an excuse to promote this wonderful symphony as I have also done before. The slow movement is quite simply the most uplifting symphonic movement written this century. And it's not even close. If the other symphonies are as good as this (no. 1 is arguably an even finer achievement), then this could be the greatest symphonist in the romantic German tradition since Bruckner/Mahler. As things stand, it would be Schmidt for me who's not quite obscure enough to be a candidate for "off the beaten track"


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## superhorn

If you love the music of the Russians Rimsky-Korsakov , Mussorgsky and. Borodin , you really need to hear the symphony no 1 in C major by the sadly neglected Mily Balakirev , (1837-1910 ) who was a close friend and associate of theirs and an important figure in the genesis of 19th century Russian music .
Balakirev is probably best known for his brilliant but fiendishly difficult piano piece "Islamey " which is based on the folk music and dances of the Circassians, who are one of the many indigenous tribes of the Caucasus , which has also been orchestrated by Alfredo Casella and another Russian composer whose named I can't recall offhand . 
Balakirev's first symphony ( there is a second ), literally took him a couple of decades to complete as he was a very slow worker , but.it's a gem ! It's chock full memorable themes and is colorfully orchestrated . It mixes themes of. both Russian and asiatic ,oriental character in an ingenious fashion . The second movement, a scherzo , recalls the wild and exuberant traditional dances of the indigenous. Muslim mountain tribesmen of the Caucasus , with whom the. Tsarist government . fought a long and bloody war of conquest in the 19th century ,ultimately making the Caucasus part of the Russian empire . 
I guarantee you , when you hear this symphony, you will wonder where it's been all your life !
I don't recall any live performances anywhere in recent years, but there are a number of excellent recordings by conductors such as Beehcam, Karajan , Svetlanov and. Neeme Jarvi .


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## TyW

That Bantock is a beautiful piece!


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## Mister Meow

I don't know if this is too mainstream for you, but how about Camille Saint Saëns: Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso.


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## Strange Magic

Leo Ornstein: _Piano Concerto_


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## geralmar

If you're willing to skip profundity and just have fun:







Mvmt. 3, Volcano.


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