# Do you hate Brahms' Double Concerto?



## Richannes Wrahms

Apparently it's not possible to create a poll with only one and true option.

Talkinghead probably voted for Beethoven.


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## SixFootScowl

I find it impossible to vote.


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## Pugg

Florestan said:


> I find it impossible to vote.


Most strange poll I ever came across .
My vote would be NO .


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## SixFootScowl

Very clever poll, but I didn't think Brahms could have something so bad that one would hate it. Even Beethoven's Fur Elise does not warrant hatred. But then I never heard Brahms Double Concerto, so what do I know?


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## Il_Penseroso

Hate Brahms!?  Never for me!


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## joen_cph

In particular if they play it through contrastful and quite fast, mainly the outer movements, like they probably did when it was composed, it can become bearable or even better than that.


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## Pugg

Missing option; Who cares .


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## Xaltotun

Anything by Brahms is usually at least good, but this one is among the finest.


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## Pugg

Xaltotun said:


> Anything by Brahms is usually at least good, but this one is among the finest.


Well said :clap:


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## DavidA

Pretty ridiculous poll giving only one choice imo. Bit like an election in North Korea!


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## realdealblues

I don't know that it's possible to "hate" anything from Brahms.


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## Triplets

realdealblues said:


> I don't know that it's possible to "hate" anything from Brahms.


Au contraire; the Double Concerto is routinely excoriated by many critics as somehow being unworthy of the Composer (Beethoven's Triple Concerto frequently gets the same treatment).
Personally, I love the Brahms Double (and the LvB Triple) and fail to see why so many critics get knots in their knickers about it.


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## isorhythm

I don't feel strongly enough about it to hate it.

Actually I can't remember a single thing in it except the opening theme.


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## realdealblues

Triplets said:


> Au contraire; the Double Concerto is routinely excoriated by many critics as somehow being unworthy of the Composer (Beethoven's Triple Concerto frequently gets the same treatment).
> Personally, I love the Brahms Double (and the LvB Triple) and fail to see why so many critics get knots in their knickers about it.


Being considered lesser or boring or dull is one thing and true many people may "dislike" a work, but it's another thing to truly "hate" a work. I dislike many works but can't think of anything that I truly "hate".


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## Triplets

realdealblues said:


> Being considered lesser or boring or dull is one thing and true many people may "dislike" a work, but it's another thing to truly "hate" a work. I dislike many works but can't think of anything that I truly "hate".


Have you read Jan Stafford's biography of Brahms? His curt dismissal of the the Double seems to imply hate; he seems to 'hate' the fact that in his opinion Brahms would sully his legacy.


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## clavichorder

I voted 'double yes' without knowing anything, because maybe it counts for something.


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## Rhombic

No.

If we are going to be wanting to feel "revolutionary" by hating not-so-brilliant pieces to feel snobbier than the rest of the populace... I just politely request that our first victim be Ravel's Bolero.

[Enjoy the subjunctive as the extra topping]


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## SeptimalTritone

I tried to hate this piece upon a few repeated listenings, but found myself liking it more and more.

I just don't get it. The violin and cello function work so well. Sometimes they give the impression of one instrument with a lot of pitch range, like in the scalar passages. Sometimes they act in counterpoint, producing a chorale-like entity. Sometimes they act in dialogue, and sometimes in unison.

The music is intense while not being bombastic, it is emotional while not being overtly or sentimentally emotional. It's a great late work. Why does Richannes hate the only common practice concerto for more than one instrument that actually has solid and varied interaction between the instruments? And the piece isn't bombastic or whiny, and isn't harmonically and chromatically sterile, and has counterpoint?

I don't get it. This is an awesome work. You win Richannes, I couldn't muster up the knowledge and sophistication needed to hate this piece! I'll keep working at it though.


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## bz3

For the heat Brahms can sometimes take for his orchestral works I don't think any of them are duds. I would put his 2 piano and 2 string concertos against any composers' 4 best concerti - and I would put his 4 symphonies against the 4 best of any symphonist. In fact I think it's in his chamber works that the most mediocre of his works are found (and to them, they would still be highlights in most other composers' repertoires).


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## GraemeG

There are no duds with Brahms. He never misses the target.
Whatever he wrote that was second-rate he seems to have ensured that it never saw the light of day.
GG


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## Richannes Wrahms

I find it outdated and cheap in it's suffering from all the sins typical of concertos, it also has a Dvorakian ease I'm not fond of... and what's up with it being in minor? I'm not buying that either.


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## musicrom

I ended up going with the majority and choosing the second "yes". The first "yes" was tempting, but in the end I decided the second was a better fit.


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## Jeff W

New York abstains, courteously. 

Personally, I love this concerto. Who could possibly hate it?


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## PeterF

As many have said, this strikes me as a silly poll at best. I like Brahms Double Concerto very much. Though would have to say I like his symphonies, violin and piano concertos a bit more.
The person who commented a bit negatively regardings Brahms chamber music has a vastly different opinion than the one I have.
Brahms violin sonatas, cello sonatas, piano trios, piano quartets, piano quintet, and clarinet quintet are magnificent. His string quartets are almost as good.


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## Pugg

Jeff W said:


> New York abstains, courteously.
> 
> Personally, I love this concerto. Who could possibly hate it?





PeterF said:


> As many have said, this strikes me as a silly poll at best. I like Brahms Double Concerto very much. Though would have to say I like his symphonies, violin and piano concertos a bit more.
> The person who commented a bit negatively regardings Brahms chamber music has a vastly different opinion than the one I have.
> Brahms violin sonatas, cello sonatas, piano trios, piano quartets, piano quintet, and clarinet quintet are magnificent. His string quartets are almost as good.


Amen to this two :tiphat:


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## Guest

Hate is so this season.


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## Dim7

"Yes" has more votes than "Yes" at the moment. Any theories why?


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## Guest

Dim7 said:


> "Yes" has more votes than "Yes" at the moment. Any theories why?


We are all psephologists.


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## Dr Johnson

dogen said:


> We are all psephologists.


Speak for yourself! :lol:


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## Marinera

yes or yes? somebody's really biased


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## Pugg

Marinera said:


> yes or yes? somebody's really biased


They call it freedom of speech nowadays :lol:


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## Marinera

Well, their freedom of speech constricts my freedom of choice. We're at the standstill then, dated western style


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## Brahmsian Colors

I enjoy it far too much to even mildly dislike it. It is my favorite among all Brahms' concertos. It is also tied with Dvorak's Cello Concerto as my all around favorite concerto.


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## Manxfeeder

I can't hate something I've never heard. I'm not in a hurry to hear it, though. I guess technically that would mean I'm ignoring it.


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## Manxfeeder

Just an update, Barnes and Noble had Joshua Bell's recording on sale, so I picked it up on impulse. I guess that means I'm repudating my previous post.


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## Strange Magic

It is difficult for me to understand anyone's not liking the Double. I loved it the first time I heard it (Heifetz/Piatigorsky) but, then again, Brahms is one of my very favorite composers.


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## jdec

Strange Magic said:


> It is difficult for me to understand anyone's not liking the Double. I loved it the first time I heard it (Heifetz/Piatigorsky) but, then again, Brahms is one of my very favorite composers.


--- Amen to this.


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## Woodduck

Superb music. Dopey poll.


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## Guest

No, but I'm starting to hate people who keep posting these stupid "hate" threads.


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## Pugg

Kontrapunctus said:


> No, but I'm starting to hate people who keep posting these stupid "hate" threads.


AS long a poll is fair I would say; go for it , but just one choice is not fair.


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## Judith

No. I love it. Just bought a copy by Joshua Bell , Steven Isserlis and Academy of St Martin in the Fields. The album is called "For the Love of Brahms". Also features the Piano Trio with Jeremy Denk.


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## Grotrian

For me, Brahms is at his freshest and most inspired in his four concertos, and the Double is every bit the equal of the other three. If only he had not destroyed his Second Violin Concerto before allowing it to see the light of day!


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## hpowders

I don't hate it. It's just not Brahms at his most inspired.

I do believe Brahms had a great cello concerto within him. Too bad he never composed one.


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## Pugg

Grotrian said:


> For me, Brahms is at his freshest and most inspired in his four concertos, and the Double is every bit the equal of the other three. If only he had not destroyed his Second Violin Concerto before allowing it to see the light of day!


If .... don not counts in lives.


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## scott777

Some people call me indecisive. No way! Well I decided there were too many options in this poll and got confused, so decisively decided not to vote. Were there 2 options because its about a *double *concerto? Is this your double concerto? I'm afraid I don't like it.


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## jdec

If (-) * (-) = (+), and if 'yes' + 'yes' = 'no' , then my answer to this poll is 'yes' and 'yes' , i. e. NO, I DON'T HATE BRAHMS' DOUBLE CONCERTO. On the contrary, I LOVE IT!


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## Adam Weber

It's my favorite Brahms concerto. Should I be worried for my mental health?


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## Genoveva

I'm still undecided at the moment. I'll be watching the results unfold carefully as it could be a close finish and I wouldn't want to miss the important event.


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## Woodduck

The warm, broad melody from the second movement might be remembered by older members as the theme music for the TV soap opera "The Secret Storm." It was arranged in different ways over the years, and in some cases the metre and harmony were altered, but I remember visiting my soap-loving grandmother and being enchanted by the music even before I knew it was originally "classical music."


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## Brahmsian Colors

Woodduck said:


> The warm, broad melody from the second movement might be remembered by older members as the theme music for the TV soap opera "The Secret Storm." It was arranged in different ways over the years, and in some cases the metre and harmony were altered, but I remember visiting my soap-loving grandmother and being enchanted by the music even before I knew it was originally "classical music."


How about "I Remember Mama", the TV series about a Norwegian family in America? It starred Peggy Wood, and featured as its lead in tune the Sarabande from Grieg's Holberg Suite. I recall watching it each week as a kid in the 1950s, and have never forgotten that wonderful musical piece.


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## Bulldog

Haydn67 said:


> How about "I Remember Mama", the TV series about a Norwegian family in America? It starred Peggy Wood, and featured as its lead in tune the Sarabande from Grieg's Holberg Suite. I recall watching it each week as a kid in the 1950s, and have never forgotten that wonderful musical piece.


Same here. Boy, we are really old.


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## hpowders

I hate the Double with a passion. If Heifetz/Piatigorsky couldn't make it sound convincing, nobody could.

Brahms should have spent that time writing a Cello Concerto. Then we may have had something really special!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Bulldog said:


> Same here. Boy, we are really old.


Yep. The mirror serves as a constant reminder each day. .........:lol:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I love close polls anyone taking bets, good odds don't you think.


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## Pugg

Adam Weber said:


> It's my favorite Brahms concerto. Should I be worried for my mental health?


You, no never, always stick to your principals.


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## helenora

not at all, currently listening to it.

I just wonder if it's possible to hate classical music at all? if we presume it's really classical and not one of innovations by Stockhausen  ( even his compositions hardly ever hateful, just not interesting for me from musical point of view) then CM can provoke different feelings, but not hatred.


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## Der Titan

I really love the double concerto of Brahms, it's wonderfull.


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## violadude

Manxfeeder said:


> Just an update, Barnes and Noble had Joshua Bell's recording on sale, so I picked it up on impulse. I guess that means I'm repudating my previous post.


And?.............................


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## ST4

helenora said:


> even his compositions hardly ever hateful, just not interesting for me from musical point of view) then CM can provoke different feelings, but not hatred.


Hatred is a feeling or am I missing something?


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## Animal the Drummer

I don't think helenora's denying that. What I read her as saying is that, for her at any rate, hatred isn't one of those feelings which CM can provoke. If so, I fully agree. There is music I don't like (this does not include the Brahms Double BTW, though I prefer his other concertos and most of his symphonies) but I wouldn't say I "hate" any of it.


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## Judith

I love the powerful opening on the first movement. The Double Concerto on the whole is amazing!!


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## hpowders

Yes! Too bad the passion I put into the hatred I have for the Brahms Double wasn't used by Brahms in its composition.

Then we woulda had something great!!!

*Update to other succeeding comments to my post:* It is perfectly my right to hate any piece of music I wish to.

I don't tell anyone on TC what music they should love or hate.

*The thread title asks, "Do you hate Brahms' Double Concerto?"*

I happen to hate it. For me it is Brahms slumming.

Tolerance of other peoples' opinions is a virtue.

We should all practice it.

Anyhow, too bad Brahms didn't write a cello concerto instead. Then we mighta had something great!!


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## Strange Magic

"Hate" is like the F-word--way overused, when it should be saved for those actual situations where nothing less will do. "Hate" the Double Concerto? I don't think so.


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## helenora

Animal the Drummer said:


> I don't think helenora's denying that. What I read her as saying is that, for her at any rate,* hatred isn't one of those feelings which CM can provoke*. If so, I fully agree. There is music I don't like (this does not include the Brahms Double BTW, though I prefer his other concertos and most of his symphonies) but I wouldn't say I "hate" any of it.


exactly! well-said


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## DavidA

hpowders said:


> Yes! Too bad the passion I put into *the intense hatred I have for the Brahms Double,* wasn't used by Brahms in its composition.
> 
> Then we woulda had something great!!!


Why not just say you don't like it? Why use your energy on something that you can't fix because the guy has been dead for some time and the music is unalterable?


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## DavidA

Try listening to Heifetz and Feurermann if you think it's dull!


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## hpowders

DavidA said:


> Try listening to Heifetz and Feurermann if you think it's dull!


I have; also Heifetz, Piatigorsky and I don't know how many other duos.

If anyone else composed it, the composer would be famous, but for Brahms, after the two piano concertos and violin concerto, the double concerto is not up to his very high standard.

A cello concerto is what he should have composed. That could have been something!


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## hpowders

DavidA said:


> Why not just say you don't like it? Why use your energy on something that you can't fix because the guy has been dead for some time and the music is unalterable?


The thread title is Do You Hate Brahms' Double Concerto? Why would I lie?

Why would it bother you what I happen to love or hate?

Sorry to hear that Brahms is dead though. In Tampa the news travels slowly.


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## ST4

I don't hate Brahms' triple Concerto but I *do* Hate stepping on Legos :scold:


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## Pugg

DavidA said:


> Try listening to Heifetz and Feurermann if you think it's dull!


Very valued point made.


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## MarkW

No, but it depends. There are a lot of awful performances of it. An old classic is the Heifitz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein recording that I find a superb.

Now if you ask me for a Brahms work that I find impssible to get into, I'd vote for the Tragic Overture.


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## Strange Magic

Love the Tragic Overture. Tastes vary, and you can quote me.


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## MarkW

Strange Magic said:


> Love the Tragic Overture. Tastes vary, and you can quote me.


No harm, no foul. I just find that it's as if Brahms decided to rewrite Beethoven's Coriolan Overture, but didn't make it better enough to be worth it.


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## jdec

The Tragic overture is great too, love it.


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## Ralphus

It's not my favourite Brahms, and I only own two recordings (Perlman/Rostropovich/Haitink; Kremer/Hagen/Harnoncourt), but I certainly don't hate it. The Perlman/Rostropovich (EMI/Warner) is particularly powerful. The way the two soloists lock together in the opening movement is magnificent. As a Brahms lover, I would suggest that a) he had more 'hits' (as opposed to 'misses') among his chamber works than his orchestral works, and b) that his orchestral works seem very tough to conduct well.


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## Richannes Wrahms

Yes and Yes are even now.


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## Larkenfield

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Apparently it's not possible to create a poll with only one and true option.


The poll is perfectly understandable: two yes votes equal a _no_ on hating it. 

My favorite performance is by Leonard Rose, Isaac Stern, and Eugene Ormandy. If listeners looked into its history of this concerto, they might be interested to know why Brahms wrote it in the first place-to patch up the estranged relationship with his friend, the violinist Joseph Joachim. Consequently, the violin and cello solos are essentially consonant to each other and that's what some listeners hate about it... Too non-competitive and harmonious between the soloists! But I think it's worth hearing because Brahms is bending over backward to please his friend and former colleague. And Brahms-Mr. Socially Inept and Verbally Tactless-didn't often humble himself and grovel before humanity... Later, I can easily imagine the two of them going to the Red Hedgehog Tavern, which Brahms frequented almost daily, and getting a buzz from their full steins of beer.


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## Rogerx

Does no also counts?


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## kyjo

What a stupid question. The Double Concerto is one of my favorite Brahms works - fiery and passionate with a real sense of dialogue between the two soloists and the orchestra. I've never understood why some people regard it as one of Brahms' weakest works. In fact, I prefer it to his Violin Concerto!


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## DavidA

If you don't like this work try the version with Heifetz and Fuerrmann


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## Judith

Love it. One of my favourite works. Was composed for Joachim as an olive branch over a falling out as Brahms sided with his wife during divorce proceedings. 
Have the album "For the Love of Brahms by Joshua Bell, Steven Isserlis and ASMF which this lovely work is on


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## Brahmsian Colors

Hmm...So this nutty poll shows its face again. At least, I can say I still enjoy the warm Brahmsian colors and engaging interplay between cellist, violinist and orchestra in this piece. It is my favorite Brahms Concerto, and among all concertos. The Heifetz/Piatigorsky/Wallenstein version on RCA remains my top choice as well.


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## philoctetes

Love the concerto more than the composer, actually...


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## KenOC

In general, I think the double concerto ranks last among Brahms' concertos, except when you're listening to it.


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## Judith

kyjo said:


> What a stupid question. The Double Concerto is one of my favorite Brahms works - fiery and passionate with a real sense of dialogue between the two soloists and the orchestra. I've never understood why some people regard it as one of Brahms' weakest works. In fact, I prefer it to his Violin Concerto!


The final movement sounds like violin and cello having a conversation with each other then the orchestra intervenes


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## Brahmsian Colors

KenOC said:


> In general, I think the double concerto ranks last among Brahms' concertos.....


I've noticed it consistently has a tough time attaining favored rating among the threads here on TC.


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## Art Rock

I like it, but I like the other three Brahms concertos better.


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## Brahmsian Colors

..........cancelled...........


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## MelodicOne

A beautiful work which rewards repeated listening!


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## MusicSybarite

kyjo said:


> What a stupid question. The Double Concerto is one of my favorite Brahms works - fiery and passionate with a real sense of dialogue between the two soloists and the orchestra. I've never understood why some people regard it as one of Brahms' weakest works. In fact, I prefer it to his Violin Concerto!


Agreed with all except the red text


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## Strange Magic

philoctetes said:


> Love the concerto more than the composer, actually...


What does this mean?


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## MarkW

I reserve the word "hate" (and the accompanying pathology it provokes) for war, greed, pedophilia . . . things that deserve that reaction.


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## MusicSybarite

MarkW said:


> I reserve the word "hate" (and the accompanying pathology it provokes) for war, greed, pedophilia . . . things that deserve that reaction.


Well said. Music doesn't deserve that word.


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## Larkenfield

This one is far superior, IMO, to the performance with Isaac Stern and Yo-Yo Ma. If I were to lodge complaints about the work itself, itwould be that the individual cadenzas come in so soon before the concerto gets off the ground, and then there's a long orchestra exposition after that where the soloists have to sit on their thumbs for far too long. Strange structuring. I would rather he had gotten the Concerto started before any of that. But still, it's hardly worth hating. How could anyone hate a work that radiates such benevolent good will? This cellist is a bit more gruff and edgy than Yo-Yo Ma's more polished and refined sound, but I find there's more life to it and I think the Concerto needs that liveliness. I think ultimately, Brahms intended this to be a celebration of his friendship with violinist Joseph Joachim.


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## DavidA

There is a fabulous performance from Julia Fischer and Daniel Muller-Schott in good modern sound. It is absolutely delightful and made me fall in love with this work. The most powerful performance, however, comes from Heifetz and his cellist counterpart, Fuermann. It is incredible but, of course, the 1930s sound is limited. Interesting, but it is said that Heifetz - not the most sentimental of people - was so affected by Feuermann's untimely death it took him seven years for Heifetz to collaborate with another cellist, Gregor Piatigorsky


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## Oldhoosierdude

Do you hate Brahms' Double Concerto?

No. 

I hate the phony political, phony religious, phony self righteous, those who violate the innocent, corrupt government systems and immoral corporate world. 

But I do not hate Brahms' Double Concerto.


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## Roger Knox

I don't hate Brahms's Double Concerto, but I do prefer Brahms's other concertos. The Double Concerto suffers in comparison because his others are so good. As for the cello component, Brahms here suffers in comparison with Dvorak's cello concerto. 

How many double concertos for strings are in the repertoire? Bach's Double Concerto for two violins and orchestra; Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for violin, viola and orchestra; Brahms's Double Concerto for violin, cello, and orchestra. Three geniuses -- many other composers have tried.


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## MusicSybarite

This work is not a double concerto as such, but it does feature an eloquent dialogue between the violin and the cello with the orchestra: Saint-Saëns' _Le Muse et le Poète_. Just I'm playing it again and sounds lovely and refined as usual with this composer.


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## Open Book

The middle movement was reworked and used as the theme of a soap opera my mother watched many years ago. That may have poisoned it a bit for me. There is something annoying about it and not every performance of it works for me.


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## DavidA

The double concerto is certainly Brahms' least effective work in concerto form (a bit like Beethoven's Triple) but that's no reason to hate it. It is still enjoyable for what it is.


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## flamencosketches

Haters of the Brahms Double, what's so bad about it? Particularly interested in answers from those among your ranks who are devoted Brahmsians who just happen to not get on with this work, rather than more generalized Brahms-haters.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I have tried it several times with the most acclaimed recordings out there (Heifetz in the old one with Feuermann and stereo with Piatigorsky, Schneiderhan/Starker, Oistrakh/Rostropovich) and have found nothing of value in it to me personally. I find it devoid of the classic rich Brahmsian melodies (except the second movement, but I don't really find that melody too remarkable), thoughtful development, and lasting appeal. The solo writing is compositionally brilliant in fusing the two string instruments into a "super instrument," but seems more like an academic exercise. It seems to validate all the common stereotypes about Brahms being "traditional, stodgy, and austere," and ultimately seems like a wasted idea to me when he could have given us a cello or clarinet concerto which would have been _really_ special. Sorry but I really can't stand it. And it's the only work of Brahms that I have any sort of feelings like that about.


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## Merl

I've never disliked it. Granted its not one of his 'bangers' but its still a piece of work I enjoy.


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## MarkW

I neither dislike nor "hate" it (and I especially relate to the Heifitz-Piatigorsky version). But I do react negatively to the Tragic Overture, which does nothing for me.


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## Strange Magic

All of these responses, summed, add up to some of the most convincing argumentation for the idiosyncratic, subjective, personal nature of musical taste (and of taste, value, whatever in all the arts). All carefully-constructed edifices of "objective" esthetic truths about such humanly-wrought constructs as music and the arts collapse in a heap of ruins when put to a test.

Now I feel better.


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## Rogerx

flamencosketches said:


> Haters of the Brahms Double, what's so bad about it? Particularly interested in answers from those among your ranks who are devoted Brahmsians who just happen to not get on with this work, rather than more generalized Brahms-haters.


+ 1 , enough said.


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## flamencosketches

Well I ordered the famous Rostropovich/Oistrakh/Szell/Cleveland recording, so I will be spending more time with the work in earnest once I receive it. I've only heard it once or twice but I found it quite compelling.


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## Rogerx

flamencosketches said:


> Well I ordered the famous Rostropovich/Oistrakh/Szell/Cleveland recording, so I will be spending more time with the work in earnest once I receive it. I've only heard it once or twice but I found it quite compelling.


The one with Beethoven: Triple Concerto ( Karajan ) on it?


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## flamencosketches

Rogerx said:


> The one with Beethoven: Triple Concerto ( Karajan ) on it?


That's the one. I almost got a different coupling, with the Brahms VC & Szell/Cleveland but decided I did not need another Brahms VC at the moment.


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## mrdoc

* Do you hate Brahms' Double Concerto? *

No I find it very ordinary??


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## Joachim Raff

Bit like saying do you hate Marmite? Futile thread


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## Rogerx

Joachim Raff said:


> Bit like saying do you hate Marmite? Futile thread


Not entirely true, I don't like marmite.


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## ORigel

I am listening to the Double Concerto right now. Despite having some dull moments, I don't get why people don't like it.

The first movement has many incredible passages.

The second movement is beautiful-- on a par with the slow movements of Brahms' other concertos and better than some of his symphonic slow movements.

The finale is a fun romp.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

I think its really fun and there's a lot of great passages. Definitely nothing in there worth
hating (I'd honestly say it's hard to truly 'hate' anything by a top-tier composer, for the most part). I'm inclined to agree with others here that it's not Brahms at his most inspired but its far from being insipid and there's a lot of interesting stuff going on in the orchestration as well as the solo parts
. I didn't know the Beethoven Triple Concerto received similar bashing, the Triple Concerto is always something I've thought of as great entertainment on a Friday night out, it's not super deep and profound nor does it have to be, just a piece that's pure entertainment fun, not to mention its exceptionally well written.


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## Rogerx

It's fantastic, try make one concerto yourselves.


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## Musicaterina

i do not hate it. But I like the Triple Concerto of Beethoven better.


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## Pit

I love it. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 15 characters.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

I'm glad it was multiple choice! Actually, I don't hate it, but never listen to it...


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## SanAntone

I don't hate any piece of music, and certainly not one by Brahms one of my favorite composers. But I don't listen to orchestral music much at all. Because of this thread I am listening to the Brahms Double right now, and enjoying it.

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## Eclectic Al

I certainly prefer it to his violin concerto. More original.


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## Animal the Drummer

Oh really? In what way? I should declare an interest inasmuch as I love the violin concerto dearly whereas the double concerto seems a lot more penny-plain to me, but I'm assuming there's more behind your statement than pure personal preference.


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## Eclectic Al

Do you know, I can't even remember making that post - which I apparently did last night. 

Anyway, you won't get any technical explanations, because I have no technical knowledge to offer. To be honest, of the main concertos types I probably have most trouble with violin concertos. I prefer piano and cello concertos, in particular.

Maybe to be more specific the Brahms comes across as the Beethoven Violin Concerto translated into Brahms, whereas the Brahms Piano Concertos do not sound like Beethoven translated into Brahms.

I think the way in which Brahms deals with the cello/violin mix for his dual solo instruments is so Brahmsian.  The Violin Concerto seems more "a romantic violin concerto". If I wanted to play it (and I sometimes do) I could as easily put on the Mendelssohn or even the Beethoven, whereas I would put on the Double Concerto because I want to listen to that, and nothing else would be similar.


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## Animal the Drummer

Interesting. Correct me by all means if I've misread what you say, but you seem find the violin concerto less characteristically Brahmsian than the double concerto. I respect that view of course, but there are scarcely any words adequate to express how fundamentally I disagree with it! Not a problem however - _vive la différence_ and all that.


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## Skakner

Hate it? Why should someone hate a piece of music?

Brahms is one of my favorite composers but I just don't listen to the Double Concerto that much.


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## Eclectic Al

Animal the Drummer said:


> Interesting. Correct me by all means if I've misread what you say, but you seem find the violin concerto less characteristically Brahmsian than the double concerto. I respect that view of course, but there are scarcely any words adequate to express how fundamentally I disagree with it! Not a problem however - _vive la différence_ and all that.


I do find it Brahmsian.

Perhaps what I trying to say is that my reaction is: "That's a romantic violin concerto, and it has Brahms' fingerprints all over it." With the Double Concerto I more get the sense "That's a work by Brahms, and it happens to be a double concerto. What an interesting thing for him to have gone for."

I'm not saying the double concerto is a better work than the violin concerto. I just find it more interesting.

In a way it comes across as more of a problem child. I get the sense of greater difficulties being found in coping with the demands of writing the double concerto, and I actually like the feeling that it is a bit more awkward.


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## Kreisler jr

As there are so few double concertos, I'd say the double concerto is more original and it is also very Brahmsian. It's not that the violin concerto is untypical, it is also quite Brahmsian, but the darker and gruffier Double concerto seems a very characteristic piece for this composer (and of course there is the personal story mentioned already above with Brahms having sided with Joachim's wife during a divorce).


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