# Recording technology used as musical instruments



## Guest (Apr 7, 2014)

Records, turntables, tape, tape players, CDs, CD players, speakers, microphones, PA equipment generally.

And computers, of course, of all kinds.

Recording technology may have encouraged people to stick with what they're already comfortable with to an unprecedented extent, but from the time of records and magnetic wire, composers have used the technology designed to _re_produce music to _produce_ it as well.

Here's a mention of one of the earliest that I know of:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=aT5...=onepage&q=toch turntables experiment&f=false

You may have to scroll around, up or down, until you hit the word TURNTABLISM.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2014)

Well, I've found this kinda thing to be pretty fun. Ever since I first heard Christian Marclay in 1984. Of course, I had always loved tape music, from even before 1972, which was a watershed year for me. But Marclay really blew me away.






And while they're not as easy to manipulate, being inside a box and all, you can do stuff with CDs as well.






Next up, Francisco Meirino and broken audio equipment.


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## Donata (Dec 28, 2013)

Those are cool. They sound like they should be playing in the background of a sci-fi movie or a video game. They remind me of chiptunes; music produced by the sound chips of vintage computers, video game consoles, and arcade machines.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2014)

It's the forgotten area of music. Or perhaps the "relegated to the very last pages of college survey texts" area of music.

One of my friends is a college professor of music, so I've seen many of the survey texts. The section on "electronic music" is essentially the same in all of them. (And none of them include Luc Ferrari, for instance, or Francis Dhomont.*)

People do keep making it, though. And listening to it.

Here's the Francisco Meirino I promised, a few days early:

http://www.franciscomeirino.com/connections.html

This page has several reviews of _Connections: Opportunities for mistakes,_ but it also has a player that starts up automatically so you can either hear what you're reading about or just listen.

*Or Francisco Meirino, for that matter.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

That's wildly entertaining. I'm gonna' have to check this out a bit more.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2014)

I get the feeling we are in a distinct minority.

And electroacoustic music has been around for about as long as the sogenannt classical era. Imagine a whole crowd of music lovers in 1820 or so who had never heard any Haydn or Mozart or Gluck or Beethoven. Not to mention. Imagine that only a very few of all music lovers had ever heard any of those four or any of their colleagues.

Hard to imagine.

And yet....


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, it's simply not easy enough... It's easy for me to enjoy, but I'm a bit strange. Then again, I haven't fully discerned if I'm strange, or if it's the majority that's strange. In actuality, I'd concede that they're strange, but to be socially polite I'll blame myself.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2014)

I learned early on that if a record had the word "electronic" on the cover, chances were it would be something I liked.

That was in 1973 or so, after I had discovered Varese's _Poeme electronique._ That was "the" piece for my oldest son, too. He went on to do a degree at UC Santa Cruz in computer music composition with David Cope.

Meat and potatoes for me.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

How sweet that is to have a son with similar passions. Don't be afraid to post some more artist-videos. I'll certainly check them out.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

By the way, if you dig Bernard Parmegiani and Francois Bayle - you might want to scoop up these steals of deals.

Parmegiani:
http://www.amazon.com/Bernard-Parmegiani/dp/B00260LNHG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1397089405&sr=8-2&keywords=bernard+parmegiani

Bayle:
http://www.amazon.com/50-ans-dacousmatique-François-Bayle/dp/B00B66GC4U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397090213&sr=8-3&keywords=francois+bayle


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2014)

Indeed. And I have done so. Yes.

I met Parmegiani a couple of years ago. What a sweet guy he was. It was a real blow when he died.

He was supposed to be at this year's Presence electroniques festival. They did play a piece of his, though.

Here's something by a couple of other friends of mine--well, OK, acquaintances (friends of friends, for sure):
















One of those tape recorders used to belong to Michele Bokanowski. She had just sold it to Lionel before this show.

Just a bit of eai trivia.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I haven't quite figured out what it is that attracts me to this. It's like some primordial buzz of existence. It conjures up these strong feelings of deja vu.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

This guy is just blowing me away consistently.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

_The Art of Sounds_ by Pierre Henry:






_Le voile D'Orphee._ Written in the 1950s, this must've scared the hell out of people, haha.






Alright, I've had enough fun chatting with myself. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

Oh, I've been reading what you wrote. And that Pierre Henry documentary? I started that up right as I was going to bed last night. A whole hour for that thing, after I was all ready for sleep.  (<-- old school)

Here's some Tone:


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

This is some really delicate stuff:

Chartier:


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

Sweet!!

Thanks for this, Vesuvius.

Believe it or not, I had never heard of Richard Chartier. It's great to be introduced to new things. One of my favorite things. And such sparse minimalism has been a real craving of mine for the last couple of years.

You know Sachiko M?






I've always admired her for her very sparse minimalism. But this thing sounds positively extravagant in comparison!!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I always admired the utter simplicity of *Stockhausen's Mikrofonie (Columbia LP, OOP). *he gets a gong and rings it, then runs a microphone along the surface, almost touching it. What this does, is it isolates each separate harmonic that the gong is producing. The 'noise' of a gong (non-pitched) is actually a collection of separate harmonics, each of which sound like sine-tone pitches. So Stockhausen extracts the 'pitch' from the noise! So we learn something about sound at the same time!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

some guy said:


> Sweet!!
> 
> Thanks for this, Vesuvius.
> 
> ...


Yea, he's releasing some new material at the end of the month. So, I'm interested to see what's cooking. That ultra-subtle, spacious, quietness is really something.

I haven't heard of Sachiko, but I'll check it out when I get some free time.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

some guy said:


> One of my friends is a college professor of music, so I've seen many of the survey texts. The section on "electronic music" is essentially the same in all of them. (*And none of them include Luc Ferrari, for instance*, or Francis Dhomont.*)


Then this is the book for you some guy: Simon *Emmerson*, _Living Electronic Music_ (Ashgate Publishing, 2007). Pages 7-8, 77-79 and 100 cover Ferrari-related issues such as anecdotal music and specific works including _Hétérozygote_, _Les jeunes filles_, _Music Promenade_ and _Presque rien no. 2_. I would urge your college professor of music friend to order it forthwith. I do hope his faculty at least subscribes to CUP's journal *Organised Sound*.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

More sweetness!

Stockhausen's Mikrophonie has long been one of my favorites. (Million and I have dozens of the same favorites from the same era.)

And Simon Emmerson. I will do as you suggest, TalkingHead. That sounds like just the thing. Books that mention Luc Ferrari go automatically into the musthave bin.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

Well then, some guy, may I also propose a much earlier collaborative tome : *The Language of Electroacoustic Music*, ed. S. Emmerson, London: Macmillan, 1986. With due respect to _Monsieur_ Emmerson, the seminal essay in that collection is by Denis Smalley. Please do check that out, and make sure your music professor friend has that under his/her belt.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

For anyone interested - there's a great deal on Amazon digital for Ferrari's collective.

http://www.amazon.com/Ferrari-L-uvre-électronique-Luc/dp/B002C1F5T6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397243061&sr=8-3&keywords=luc+ferrari


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2014)

Not completely unrelated to this thread, I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could point me in the right direction to get hold of a CD (or other media) version of Mexican composer Javier Alvarez's "On Going On" for sax and tape. It was composed circa 1986, IIRC.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

TalkingHead said:


> Not completely unrelated to this thread, I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could point me in the right direction to get hold of a CD (or other media) version of Mexican composer Javier Alvarez's "On Going On" for sax and tape. It was composed circa 1986, IIRC.


This cd has that piece:

http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Saxophone-Wayne-Siegel/dp/B00005KA2F/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397259837&sr=8-1&keywords=Javier+Alvarez+on+going+on


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

LOL. I recall a piece, imo, both nice and effective, where the sound source was a number of players rubbing the surfaces of LP recordings together, the fine striations and the speed of the rubbing producing the various 'pitches' of the timbre.

... yet another aspect of 're-purposing' one thing for the sound source in a piece


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Paul Dolden:






Pretty wild and off-putting, so I thought I'd post it.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Maybe a splash of some Dhomont:

_Espace / Escape_





… One more. I really dig this guy.

_Lettre de Sarajeco_


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2014)

The Ferrari is an extravagant set, and contains representative music from all phases of his work.

It's huge, so you might think it's complete. It's not. But it's well worth having. I bought the hard copy when it first came out, even though it duplicated much of what I already had. It was worth it, just to get the stuff I didn't.

A couple of CDs have come out with Brigit Ferrari's work, too, which are not to be missed.

Love the Dolden. The label it's on is essential.

And Dhomont. What a sweetheart. He was at the most recent Presences electronique, playing a new piece. It was different, I am happy to report, from any other piece of his I've heard.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> This cd has that piece:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Saxophone-Wayne-Siegel/dp/B00005KA2F/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397259837&sr=8-1&keywords=Javier+Alvarez+on+going+on


Dear Vesuvius, thank you very much indeed for that link. I just ordered it from Amazon, 10€ ! I see that I'll also be getting a *Jonty Harrison* piece that I didn't know. Talking of Jonty, you must check out his _*Klang*_.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Risset:

_Songes_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Bayle:

_Jeita_





Lucier:

_Music on a Long Thin Wire_





Chowning:

_Stria_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Stein's Labyrinthe. Not a composer, per se. But this seems like the appropriate place for something quirky and absurd like this.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Back to composers...

Redolfi:

_Immersion Totale_





Tudor:

_Rainforest_





Alright, someone else's turn. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2014)

OK. There surely can be no clearer use of recording technology used as musical instruments than *John Cage's* *Europeras* that use (among others instruments) a bunch of turntables playing old LPs of operas.
http://d-sites.net/english/cage.htm#.U0meJaKrB8E


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Ferrari:

_Petite symphonie intuitive pour une paysage de printemps_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Bayle:

_Toupe dans le ciel_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I guess not many folks are into this kind of stuff. The hell with it, I dig it...

Lejeune:

_Trois apercus du jardin qui s'eveille_


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2014)

Well, I think it's lovely. 

But you knew that already.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Of course, you've pioneered this thread. I think I've seen about ~4 other users who appear to be a bit interested, hah. Regardless, I've been unleashing on here to try and keep the momentum going and maybe plant a few seeds in some open minds. Because I also find it to be lovely.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Malec:

_Dahovi_





Dufour:

_Rivage de la soif_





Schwarz:

_Tchernobyl_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

A history lesson - The origins of electronic music:

_Part 1_




_Part 2_




_Part 3_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Luigi Russolo - A Futurist who is considered to be the first noise composer.

He recorded this in 1913!

_Veglio Di Una Città (from "Die Kunst der Geräusche")_


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Chris Watson - One of the most respected of field recording artist today.

He talks about the color of sound:





… and a couple tracks by him. He really does some quality work. Capturing the essence of environments.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

A little glimpse at how Ferrari composes his music.






Now, don't everyone comment at once.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2014)

If you listen to Luc's music, you will hear all the chatting in it, too. Whatever his microphone picks up is OK. Including his own voice talking to people who are asking him what he's doing. It all goes into the mix.

In the clip you see his really lovely wife Brunhild, and in a recent CD release you can hear how amazingly talented a composer she is as well.

http://www.discogs.com/Luc-Ferrari-Brunhild-Ferrari-Programme-Commun/release/4083072

And speaking of really lovely, here's Andrea Neumann performing Cage's _Water Walk._






And doing her own music:






With Alex Dörner:






Norway gets all the cool acts.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I really got a laugh out of this:

The master field recording artist - Chris Watson.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

some guy said:


> Well, I've found this kinda thing to be pretty fun. Ever since I first heard Christian Marclay in 1984. Of course, I had always loved tape music, from even before 1972, which was a watershed year for me. But Marclay really blew me away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but those two clips are just pure noise and I wouldn't consider as music.


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## Neuroticdog (Sep 17, 2014)

You guys are to cool!! I think I found the right thread.

How about some Natasha Barrett? No real good clips on you tube but these two discs....oh my!! (In 5.1 no less)

http://www.electrocd.com/en/cat/acd_5056/

http://www.electrocd.com/en/cat/acd_5037/

The first disc, "Trade Winds" has this whole maritime theme running though it...until that is the boat sinks and your trapped in this bizzarre metaphysical underwater world of equal parts extreme claustrophobia and serene beauty. It is absolutely stunning music!

The second disc, "Kraftfelt" has a piece on it called "Prince Prospero's Party" which is an acousmatic journey through Poe's story The Masque of Red Death. Imagine that, then listen to it! Pure wildness, and again, in 5.1 if you got the rig.

Everything I've heard by her has been outstanding...and she now lives in Norway...that give her cred, right?

best
Michael


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Neuro, glad to see you've found the thread. I was looking for it in my history, but couldn't find it. It's great to have more people interesting in this. Haven't heard of Barrett, but I dig it. Very cool.
:tiphat:


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2014)

Natasha's one of my favorite people, for sure. And quite a fantastic composer, too.


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## Neuroticdog (Sep 17, 2014)

I think he's been mentioned before, but what do you think of Paul Dolden? If anyone lives by the credo of "using the studio as an instrument", it surely has to be him. He layers like instruments over like instruments ad infinitum building a ridiculously large monolith of sound that not only reaches cosmic propotions, but comic one's too (There is quite a bit of kitschy humor in his new release "Who has the Biggest Sound").

Even if you play this stuff soft, it comes out loud, there is no escaping it. At medium volume it crushes skulls...at loud volume...fugeddabboutit! But the thing is, it's not "wall of sound" or anything like "power electronics". It's actually highly notated compositions (even me, a non-musician can tell that) with recurring themes and ****. Given that, this is not studio gimmickry or smoke and mirrors and quite frankly, I don't know anyone else walking this path. I dont know if this youtube link will come though or not, but here is a snippet of what he's all about:






best
Michael


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2014)

Dolden's quite good. _L'ivresse_ is one of my favorites for sure.

Interesting what you say about volume. I've noticed in other contexts that sometimes very soft sounds are nontheless huge. You feel that if you heard them at full volume, it'd kill you.

But I get that more with Brümmer than with Dolden. But then, I listen to Brümmer a lot more than I do Dolden. You've made me want to spend more time with Dolden.


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## Neuroticdog (Sep 17, 2014)

some guy said:


> Dolden's quite good. _L'ivresse_ is one of my favorites for sure.
> 
> Interesting what you say about volume. I've noticed in other contexts that sometimes very soft sounds are nontheless huge. You feel that if you heard them at full volume, it'd kill you.
> 
> But I get that more with Brümmer than with Dolden. But then, I listen to Brümmer a lot more than I do Dolden. You've made me want to spend more time with Dolden.


Not familiar with Brummer but listening to his piece "de la nuit" right now as I type this. If I didn't know who this was, I would swear this is a Dumitrescu piece (another composer who belongs in this thread incidentally, along with Ana-Maria Avram). I'm really enjoying this right now, must investigate further! Thanks for the heads up on him! What would you recommend and where available?

Further thoughts on volume, one thing that I've consistently noticed when listening to acousmatic music, it does not have to be played loud (of course it can, and I often do). Typically, the dynamics are so varied that the contrast will always be there, no matter how loud or soft it is...so when played soft, you are still going to get the benefit of the loud bits in comparison.

best
Michael

p.s. It's a Dhomont night tonight, Mouvances~Métaphores 1 (Cycle de l'errance) Espace / Escape


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Dolden's also some really cool stuff. Heres an album containing about 2.5 hours of his music on amazon digital to be had.

http://www.amazon.com/Livresse-vitesse-Paul-Dolden/dp/B003LDWRYA/ref=sr_1_10_bnp_1_mus?ie=UTF8&qid=1411436082&sr=8-10&keywords=dolden

I'll have to check out some Brummer, as well.


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## Neuroticdog (Sep 17, 2014)

Vesuvius said:


> Dolden's also some really cool stuff. Heres an album containing about 2.5 hours of his music on amazon digital to be had.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Livresse-vitesse-Paul-Dolden/dp/B003LDWRYA/ref=sr_1_10_bnp_1_mus?ie=UTF8&qid=1411436082&sr=8-10&keywords=dolden
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2014)

Haha, one of my more embarrassing multi-purchase stories.

I bought volume one in a store. Then I noticed volume one in another store and bought it. Then I saw the two volume set at a festival and bought that. Then I found volume two online and bought that.

So at one point, I had two copies of volume one, one copy of volume two, and the two CD set. I discovered this one day when I did one of my periodic alphabetizations of the collection.

[Personal note: I just saw Iancu and Ana-marie in Bucharest in April. I planned a trip there after noticing a notice D) of the concert, but didn't mention anything to either of them. So their surprise at seeing me there was most gratifying. (Tim Hodgkinson was there, too, but he never acts surprised at anything. My life goal is to make Tim grin. At anything. No matter how brief a grin it is, either.]


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## Neuroticdog (Sep 17, 2014)

Funny anecdote about TH some guy, I believe Cutler is equally deadpan.

I remember, many decades ago I saw Tim and Fred (Frith) do a duo performance at a very strange upstairs loft like space. Before the show started, as people were lining up to get in (yes, there was an ACTUAL line to see these guys back in the day!!) Fred and Tim were standing at the entrance greeting people and shaking hands as we entered...very proper like..."Hello, my name is Fred, we hope you enjoy the show tonight...Hello, my name is Tim, we hope you enjoy the music tonight...etc etc etc".

It was pretty hilarous...you knew they were f'en with us and their voices were dripping with sarcasm. The whole show that night was very slapstick, especially Fred who on numerous points throughout the performance picked up his violin in a very exaggerated "spanish matador" manner, raised the bow very flamboyantly and right before his first note he would just shake his head and toss them both back on the table and continue to scratch and claw his way though his tabletop guitar rig.

When he finally did play, it was literally for like 3 seconds...one scratch of the bow.

Ya had to be there 

Back on point...remember the band Phil n' The Blanks (back in the new wave 80's) led by one Phillip Bimstein? Well ole Phil has a couple of really good discs on Starkland that combine really nice small ensemble arrangements overlaid with some very interesting, and often amusing tape snippets. Below is an example (Pretty far cry from The Blanks who...come to think of it, were actually pretty weird themselves).






best
Michael


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