# Player or Listener?



## EricIsAPolarBear (Aug 18, 2007)

Was curious to see which forum members play instruments and which are primarily "listeners" of classical music. 

I play guitar and mandolin, but definitely not of the classical variety. I can't even sight read ....

For listeners, do you think that this is an obstacle to understanding or enjoying what you hear?


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm an aspiring listener. I wish I could _understand_ music. It's not late, though...tons of resources available and (hopefully) a lot of time for me to learn things.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

i played trumpet and taught music to noah's sons on the ark. really, i cannot recall being unable to read music...and i'm not all that old. i started young.
i'm a miserable pianist, but a good trumpeter. been dabbling in banjo, too. 

dj


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## EricIsAPolarBear (Aug 18, 2007)

do you play any jazz?


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

i've played in a few pick-up swing bands for dances. i would not only go broke playing jazz, i'd be assassinated by jazzers and then haunted afterward by the ghost of satchmo. i'm legit
in the main. 

dj


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## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I used to play percussion back in HS, and took a couple of theory courses. Now, Im really more of a listener. Haven't touched a single pair of sticks or mallets in about 7 years.

For me, it, at times, gets in the way of enjoying music. For a lot of music, trying to analyze a piece while listening (meter, key signature, etc...) prevents me from hearing it _objectively_, and fully comprehending the emotion(s) the composer is trying to convey.


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## mythopoetica (Aug 20, 2007)

I suppose I'm a little bit of both. Listening to music makes me want to play it, but I'm not very good. Listening to a piece is very different, for me. Example: Listening to Satie's_ Trois Gymnopodies_ was amazing the first time around (both on piano and classical guitar), but since I've learnt to play the pieces on classical guitar, nothing can beat the experience of actually being "in" the music, playing it (even if not well), because it helps me tap into things about the song in a more active (and dare I say, intimate) way. Whenever I listen to something, part of me is always dying to at least try to play it, even if I'll botch it along the way. And trust me, I do botch a lot of pieces. Badly.


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

I play music - jug band and hokum, like a simple early jazz - but couldn't even begin to play the classical-related music that I listen to. That's for people with hands and brains that are unlike mine.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

O.K.: (imagine me slipping into a Philadelphia accent)... I'm not a player-
but I'm not a player-hater, either

(we once had a thread: "I'm not a musician"... it wound up getting locked )
so don't be hating on us non-players

[All right, I'm back]: The future of any artistic and/or entertainment endeavor is parlous indeed if its appreciation is limited only to its practitioners. Don't be a NON-player hater.


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## johnbull (Aug 10, 2007)

I can't play an instrument to save my life.

At school - about the middle ages (50s) I started piano lessons, so I know where middle C is, but that's about the sum total of my musical knowledge.

Having said that I love classical music - favorites: Sibelius, Mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, Beethoven, Dvorak, and of course the Russians. Just got the set of Scriabin symphonies as a birthday prezzie, and am presently enjoying those.

My late father was the same - didn't play an instrument but loved the music, and that's where I suppose I got it from. As a baby, I used to be rocked to sleep to the sounds of Sibelius, and the Finnish composer has remained my all time favorite. I still plan to visit Finland, his house, his museum, sometime before I fall off the perch.


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## Oneiros (Aug 28, 2006)

I play some piano and cello, haven't practiced in a while though. I don't think it really matters whether you play or not - as long as you enjoy the music, on any level.

I find it strange that someone could say that they don't understand music - surely there are some styles that you understand, because to enjoy is to understand. There's nothing to it really. Though it does get a bit tricky when you get to the 20th century.


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## Pianoforte (Jul 27, 2007)

I fell in love with the Piano when I was 8 when I saw one at an aunts house. Now I'm 30 and I can play blues and some classical pieces as well as several compositions of my own. I tried having lessons when I was younger but never felt I was getting anything out of it. I can't sight read but can read very slowly. I learn music by listeneing to it a lot!

My favourite piece is Bach's Brandenburg Concerto Number 3, Final Movement. I've been playing it for years and still can't always get it right. I love to play blues because that can go on and on and on......

My ambition is to learn Mozart's Piano Sonata in C K545. I love that piece. I can also play Harmonica, sing (a lot) and a bit of guitar and drums from when I was in a band. My music sums up my life really. I start something and put my heart in to it but never really go that extra mile. Start something, lose interest and move on. I can't play any piece all the way though which makes it difficult performing to people. I love listening to classical or 'real' music and I find it so relaxing. I consider myself very fortunate that I can enjoy many different musical styles. Sometimes I find myself giggling with elation while listening to music especially Mozart and Chopin. Their music stirs up emotions a hundred novels couldn't come close to re-creating.

Driving on a Sunday afternoon with Classic FM on and watching the birds or young kids being shown how to ride a bike by their mums and dads or having a picnic and kick about in the park makes the mundane Monday to Friday completely worthwhile. In fact, it gives a purpose to my life.


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

phatic said:


> I find it strange that someone could say that they don't understand music -


Surely, there must be more to it than just aural pleasure. I realise that music's primary purpose is entertainment, but for some reason there is more to the Hammerklavier than _Hit me baby one more time_. 

This is similar to what I have found with physics. I enjoyed reading popular [as in 'for a layman'] books on black holes and other esoteric creations of theoretical physics, but the joy is more when you actually read a technical exposition which explains how it all comes about with all details included. [Well, I still need to read about black holes, but I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. ]



> surely there are some styles that you understand, because to enjoy is to understand. There's nothing to it really. Though it does get a bit tricky when you get to the 20th century.


Well, there was a time when I listened to nothing but Baroque sounds and Mozart. I didn't bother to listen to other composers whose compositions I really like now.

20th Century? Let's leave that alone, shall we?


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## Oneiros (Aug 28, 2006)

opus67 said:


> Surely, there must be more to it than just aural pleasure. I realise that music's primary purpose is entertainment, but for some reason there is more to the Hammerklavier than _Hit me baby one more time_.
> 
> This is similar to what I have found with physics. I enjoyed reading popular books on black holes and other esoteric creations of theoretical physics, but the joy is more when you actually read a technical exposition which explains how it all comes about with all details included. [Well, I still need to read about black holes, but I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. ]


Of course there's always more to learn about music, particularly from a theoretical point of view, but I think that you have 'understood' some music when you can say that you like it. This may sound simplistic, but when you think about it, to say that you like a certain piece, means that you understand (whether consciously or unconsciously) its emotional meaning, and perhaps even the ideology and cultural significance that lies beneath the surface. Unless its a completely superficial liking of the sounds by themselves... then my theory falls to pieces. Bah! When will I learn to leave philosophy and stick with music?


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## EricIsAPolarBear (Aug 18, 2007)

I am particularly excited by the discussion my initial question has prompted. 

"Unless its a completely superficial liking of the sounds by themselves"

I think that this may be the first order of "understanding", surely you do not require the "ideology and cultural significance", the context of a piece, to enjoy it.

When I studied poetry I remember a debate that for me is still completely unresolved. Should poetry be read in the context of its creation (culturally, historically, even personally with respect to its author) or should the text stand alone? 
I think to a certain extent it is necessary to place the piece within its contextual framework in order to fully appreciate its artistic significance, but the words themselves can illuminate. Then again, try to appreciate Ginbserg's "Howl" w/o knowing the characters and the America he is reacting to, or Langston Hughes or Wilfred Owen... interesting debate anyway, i can't say i can put myself squarewly in either camp


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

[With respect to music] I don't want to put my self in either camp, permanently, but I want to able to move between the two when I want to. (if that makes any sense.)


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2007)

Wow that is crazy to have jug, mando, and banjo players in a classical music forum. I love it because i also play banjo, both picking bluegrass and clawhammering old timey and old blues and jazz. I also play my first and deepest love, the piano. At times i will admit being a "player" does take away from the listening experience. I am also compose and that also takes away from the listening experience because i am constantly trying to analyze the piece and understand it. The best listening experiences are when i am totally free of mind and completely into the music. There is the saying ignorance is bliss and i do believe this to sometimes be true in listening to music. But i would not give up playing for the world, as stated before there is nothing quite like playing and fully understanding a piece of music, you really see the true genius of the composer and the beauty of the work.


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## EricIsAPolarBear (Aug 18, 2007)

was at a bluegrass jam a couple of weeks ago, the guy on the banjo was very good and made me want to pick it up very badly. can't wait until i save up enough money


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2007)

I actually first picked it up after listening to Old Crow Medicine Show and mistaking the "guitjoe aka banjtar" for a 5 string, but i turned out to really love the mistake. It is allot of fun but it takes allot of getting used to. It took me about a year till i could play anything that remotely sounded like music. Now i have a Gibson RB-250 that was given to me, it is amazing. It's just a shame that i am not good enough to keep up with the instrument. The one thing bad about the banjo is that you’re constantly in the background. I have always sortove envied the Mandolin's flare.


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## EricIsAPolarBear (Aug 18, 2007)

be fun to trade for a couple of weeks ha


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

EricIsAPolarBear said:


> Was curious to see which forum members play instruments and which are primarily "listeners" of classical music.


I have been a professional organist, devoted to classical & church music, for the past 47 years.

As a player, can't help but hear the music I am creating ... so, in reality, I am both player and listener


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## Oneiros (Aug 28, 2006)

EricIsAPolarBear said:


> I think that this may be the first order of "understanding", surely you do not require the "ideology and cultural significance", the context of a piece, to enjoy it.


Actually I disagree. In order to like some sort of music, you would already have some understanding (perhaps not conscious) of the cultural/ideological values that are embedded beneath the surface. Otherwise you wouldn't like it.

Why is it that almost anyone can listen to say, Mozart, and find the surface melody appealing? Because the values articulated in that music are familiar to almost everyone. Contrast some of the modernists - not only the techniques and sounds, but also their values are unfamiliar until you learn about them.

I might be way off with all this, but it's just an idea I've had, after listening to lectures and reading books about how strongly tied with culture and ideology music is.



EricIsAPolarBear said:


> When I studied poetry I remember a debate that for me is still completely unresolved. Should poetry be read in the context of its creation (culturally, historically, even personally with respect to its author) or should the text stand alone?
> I think to a certain extent it is necessary to place the piece within its contextual framework in order to fully appreciate its artistic significance, but the words themselves can illuminate.


Well said. With music, I find that the emotional (abstract) aspect always grabs me from the start, and this prompts further study. Understanding context is essential to a deeper understanding of art, but whether you want that understanding is a personal choice. For some people the emotion is enough, and there is nothing wrong with that.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2007)

phatic said:


> Actually I disagree. In order to like some sort of music, you would already have some understanding (perhaps not conscious) of the cultural/ideological values that are embedded beneath the surface. Otherwise you wouldn't like it.


I have found this to be true in some cases as well. Such as Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, where you can almost hear the battle lines forming. Also Shostakovich's 2nd movement of his 10th Symphony, after hearing his inspiration for that movement it just made sense and i could appreciate the violence and mood of the piece.


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