# Favorite recordings with tempos you consider incorrect



## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

I have an ideal tempo for most things I like, but every now and then I fall for recordings that stray from my preferences.






For instance I think Helmuth Rilling is going way too fast here, but sometimes I find the excess energy of this version irresistible.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Mozart's 40th Symphony with Otto Klemperer conducting. Slow, almost ponderous throughout, yet the performance is convincing. Only a great conductor could pull that off.


----------



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Bernstein conducted the final movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony at something like 17 minutes. I love it!

There was also a version of Mahler's 9th Adagio that came in at 39 or 40 minutes, but I have never been able to find it since it was taken off youtube several years ago. Someone help me out here?


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One of the best recorded performances ever of the Brahms First Piano Concerto was the collaboration between Claudio Arrau and Carlo Maria Giulini leading the Philharmonia Orchestra. Yet the tempos throughout were the slowest I have ever heard, as far from acceptable "mainstream" as possible. Yet these two great artists pulled it off. A monumental performance worthy of a Hall of Fame designation.


----------



## WolfgangRising (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm very particular about different renditions of Mozart's Requiem (KV626).
I think Karl Bohm has just the perfect tempo, while if its conducted by Karajan it just seems like he's racing to the finish.
This is most noticeable in each version of the "Confutatis"


----------



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

WolfgangRising said:


> I'm very particular about different renditions of Mozart's Requiem (KV626).
> I think Karl Bohm has just the perfect tempo, while if its conducted by Karajan it just seems like he's racing to the finish.
> This is most noticeable in each version of the "Confutatis"


I too prefer Bohm on Mozart's Requiem.


----------



## WolfgangRising (Feb 28, 2016)

Klassic said:


> I too prefer Bohm on Mozart's Requiem.


The one TRUE Requiem


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Karajan's tempi in La Boheme and some other Italian opera. But somehow he stretches the singers and brings it off. Not the only way to do it but reveals facets of the score others don't. Something that metronome maniacs should consider.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Glenn Gould in Beethoven/Liszt sixth symphony. Far too slow. Yet incredibly it works!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Furtwangler's tempos for the "Adagio molto" movement of Beethoven's 9th were certainly inauthentic, but the effect is inexpressibly moving.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Klemperer's St. Matthew Passion. Too slow, but it has so much gravitas that if you haven't gone through the whole thing feeling like you've witnessed the actual passion, you haven't paid attention. 

Gardiner's recording of Bach's Magnificat. Even Emma Kirkby admitted it's too fast, but she rides the crest of the wave all the way to the end.


----------



## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

hpowders said:


> One of the best recorded performances ever of the Brahms First Piano Concerto was the collaboration between Claudio Arrau and Carlo Maria Giulini leading the Philharmonia Orchestra. Yet the tempos throughout were the slowest I have ever heard, as far from acceptable "mainstream" as possible. Yet these two great artists pulled it off. A monumental performance worthy of a Hall of Fame designation.


I would make the same claim regarding Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic in Sibelius's Second Symphony (DG). His ways with the tempi do not sit well with many listeners (not excluding critics), yet I find their performance to be the most moving for this work. The liberties taken on this score are obvious, but there's always the forward momentum that really never flags and I find their take on the slow movement the most gripping on record.

And what I claim goes to Bernstein's recording of Wagner's "Tristan und Isode" and Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony as well. Conventional wisdom is not always absolutely right.


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Bernstein, a heavy smoker, suffered from emphysema starting in the early 1970s. Perhaps in later life he simply didn't have the energy he had in New York, which may have affected his conducting. That's maybe a bit far out, but...


----------



## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Furtwangler's tempos for the "Adagio molto" movement of Beethoven's 9th were certainly inauthentic, but the effect is inexpressibly moving.


So far as I can tell Furtwängler was one of the most interesting and unique conductors of Beethoven in the history of conductors. The problem is that the recording equipment was not up to par. I think his recording of Beethoven's 3rd is breathtaking and powerful.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> Klemperer's St. Matthew Passion. Too slow, but it has so much gravitas that if you haven't gone through the whole thing feeling like you've witnessed the actual passion, you haven't paid attention.
> 
> Gardiner's recording of Bach's Magnificat. Even Emma Kirkby admitted it's too fast, but she rides the crest of the wave all the way to the end.


Klemperer is far too slow. It just doesn't come off.

Gardiner is too fast but McCreesh is even faster! Ridiculous! Of course Bach didn't actually have metronome marks but these guys are at the races!


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Glenn Gould's recording of Schoenberg's Suite takes the middle movement Intermezzo at _half_ the printed metronome marking, making its strange reverie a weightier kind of dream. It's completely obtuse and without any reference in the printed score, but it's sure effective in its own way.

The movement starts here. In a weird issue that seems to exist in all of the CD issues of this performance, the first part of the Intermezzo is stuck on the end of one track and the rest is put on the next track, so this video doesn't go all the way to the end of the movement. The rest is here.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

If a performance speaks to you, the tempos aren't incorrect -- even if they're different from he ones you usually prefer.

Personally, I find the tempos in the Arrau/Haitinck Brahms d-minor concerto unusually broad, but the performance is so gorgeous, I don't care.


----------



## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

My earliest experiences with Toscanini recordings shaped my perceptions of Beethoven, so it took me some time to get accustomed to the slower tempos of almost any other conductor. Years later, I discovered that Toscanini conducted at a more rapid tempo for recordings than concerts because he believed that without the visual stimuli of watching the musicians, a performance might otherwise get tedious to the listener.


----------



## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Bernstein, a heavy smoker, suffered from emphysema starting in the early 1970s. Perhaps in later life he simply didn't have the energy he had in New York, which may have affected his conducting. That's maybe a bit far out, but...


Try and convince the Concertgebouw of that during the 3rd mvt of Mahler's 9th or the NY Phil during the Tchaikovsky 5th last mvt's Allegro section. Bernstein sounds as if he was trying to set a speed record in both instances.


----------



## Picander (May 8, 2013)

Clairvoyance Enough said:


> I have an ideal tempo for most things I like, but every now and then I fall for recordings that stray from my preferences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the libreto of the cantata justifies the fast tempi: http://www.emmanuelmusic.org/notes_translations/translations_cantata/t_bwv026.htm

By the way, I love this Rilling's Complete Cantatas recording. Its CD #30 (cantatas BWV 94, 95 and 96) is one of my favorites CDs of my entire collection.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Brahms First Piano Concerto with Claudio Arrau and the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini.

Much too slow, yet the performance works. In lesser hands (no pun intended) this would have been a disaster.

My benchmark reference for correct tempos is any of the great Rudolf Serkin recordings.

Also Otto Klemperer's recordings of Mozart's last three symphonies. Much too slow, but again, the whole thing works because Klemperer was a magician.


----------

