# Is this falsetto or is he a real countertenor?



## Barytonmartin (Mar 22, 2014)

Guy that appeared on America's Got Talent:

http://www.livebiz.ro/video/nimeni-...lui-a-parasit-scena-mai-socata-decat-oricine/


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Try this test: Imagine the singer's voice - exactly the same voice that you've heard in real time - suddenly sing a phrase with the words "Come on, Pluto!" If he then sounds to you like Mickey Mouse and not like an opera singer, then it is falsetto not countertenor.


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## Don Magnifico X (Jan 27, 2014)

Honestly, I have a really hard time telling the difference between a true countertenor and a falsetto... if there truly is a difference at all. But that's just a reaction of a Joe six pack opera fan… I'm not really an expert in this.

To me, this guy didn't sound very much different than David Daniels, who I've heard sing a couple times, and David Daniels is apparently a pretty well-respected countertenor. I mentioned in another thread that, upon hearing David Daniels sing, my wife remarked that he sounded a lot like Miss Piggy (from the Muppets fame). Frankly, after hearing that remark, I can't *not* hear that and that's exactly what I think every time I hear a countertenor sing.


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

I think there is a different between the ugly, thin falsetto that comes out when one's voice cracks and the type employed by countertenors. I think the term for the latter is falsettone(?), a kind of balance between head voice and falsetto with some chest resonance, but I might be wrong.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Don Magnifico X said:


> Frankly, after hearing that remark, I can't *not* hear that and that's exactly what I think every time I hear a countertenor sing.


every time? not all sound like David Daniels...


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## Don Magnifico X (Jan 27, 2014)

deggial said:


> every time? not all sound like David Daniels...


Yeah, pretty much every time… And if you think I'm being unfair, you're probably right.

I don't know, it's just something that I've tried and it simply doesn't click with me. It actually makes me sad that I don't care for it, because baroque opera should be right up my alley, but every time I hear a countertenor sing, it just pulls me right out of the opera.

I will admit that I do find Barry Gibb pretty entertaining, though. :lol:


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

well, you can still enjoy baroque opera with mezzos/contraltos in those roles.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

The real countertenor, unlike falsetto, can to this:






Lawrence Zazzo is the real killer here, you simply hear who's the boss... especially at 2:44, you can't help but to feel Achilla is trembling upon hearing this virile, manly voice, so he steps aside. But one does not simply walk away when such a duramen speaks to you. So the gesture at 2:54 follows and the voice that comes along with it is even more tough, whatever he sings it sounds just like "come at me if you dare, I'm masculinity incarnate".


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Aramis said:


> The real countertenor, unlike falsetto, can to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I truly wish I could enjoy this. If the music itself were not so exciting I'd be laughing out loud at all the grimacing and gesticulating combined with a voice that sounds masculine to me only on the few incongruous low notes. I can accept and even enjoy countertenors in non-operatic contexts where the singer's gender is irrelevant, but here - well, maybe I need more exposure! It may be useful to remember that these male soprano and alto roles would have been sung by castratos, not countertenors, and that we use countertenors or women because it's as close as we can get to a sound which no one now living has ever heard. As things are, I'm one of those incorrect anachronists who'd rather hear the vocal line taken down an octave and sung by a man who doesn't need to prove his masculinity by acting like Popeye.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm another one of the incorrect anachronists -- I have a wonderful recording of _Giulio Cesare_ with Fischer-Dieskau in the title role and Schreier as Sesto that I enjoy very much, along with an _Alcina_ that has Joan Sutherland as the sorcoress and Wunderlich as Ruggiero.
Whether or not one likes countertenors is a matter of taste, as is so much of our reaction to individual voices. Neither side in the countertenor debate will ever convince the other, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's rather like arguing over whether or not Brussels sprouts taste good. To some people, they do; to others, they don't.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

MAuer said:


> I'm another one of the incorrect anachronists -- I have a wonderful recording of _Giulio Cesare_ with Fischer-Dieskau in the title role and Schreier as Sesto that I enjoy very much, along with an _Alcina_ that has Joan Sutherland as the sorcoress and Wunderlich as Ruggiero.


I'm trying to imagine those singers in those roles... Sounds like I should investigate for the sake of curiosity.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

MAuer said:


> I'm another one of the incorrect anachronists -- I have a wonderful recording of _Giulio Cesare_ with Fischer-Dieskau in the title role and Schreier as Sesto that I enjoy very much, along with an _Alcina_ that has Joan Sutherland as the sorcoress and Wunderlich as Ruggiero.
> Whether or not one likes countertenors is a matter of taste, as is so much of our reaction to individual voices. Neither side in the countertenor debate will ever convince the other, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's rather like arguing over whether or not Brussels sprouts taste good. To some people, they do; to others, they don't.


I have a Giulio Cesare recorded in German in 1966 with Fritz Wunderlich as Sesto, Christa Ludwig as Cornelia and, iirc, Herman Prey as Cesare. (Sorry, but I'm too lazy to get up and look for it.) I like it fine. Very good sound despite the age and being an Opera d'Oro cd set.


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Revenant said:


> I have a Giulio Cesare recorded in German in 1966 with Fritz Wunderlich as Sesto, Christa Ludwig as Cornelia and, iirc, Herman Prey as Cesare. (Sorry, but I'm too lazy to get up and look for it.) I like it fine. Very good sound despite the age and being an Opera d'Oro cd set.


My conscience was bothering me about this, so I arose from regal repose and found it. Not Herman Prey.

Giulio Cesare: Walter Berry
Cornelia: Christa Ludwig
Sextus: Fritz Wunderlich
Cleopatra: Lucia Popp

Bavarian Radio Chorus and Munich Philharmonic Orch.
Ferndinand Leiter, cond.
Live Recording, Munich, July 1-5, 1965


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## BaronScarpia (Apr 2, 2014)

Well, countertenors do use falsetto to sing in at least the top part of their range. No man (or at least no man that I've heard of!) can sing up to A5 in modal voice! Falsetto is a natural feature of all voices, male and female. The problem is it is improperly named: it literally means 'little false voice'. To be classed as a countertenor, you have to sing countertenor repertoire. Its the same with all voice parts. Some pop songs may require a tenor range, but that does not make the singer a tenor. In non-classical music, voice classification does not carry any weight.


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## xjian77 (Apr 10, 2021)

BaronScarpia said:


> No man (or at least no man that I've heard of!) can sing up to A5 in modal voice!


There is an A5 from Steve Perry. I am not entirely sure which register it is. 





By the way, you only need to call E5 for most alto parts. Britten once wrote an A5 for Lucretia, then he found that it was out of reach for Kathleen Ferrier. I bet he would not consider an A4 for a bass.


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