# Why are schubert's operas so rarely performed?



## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm no spring chicken. I've seen dozens of productions and it just dawned on me... NEVER seen a Schubert composition. Couldn't even tell ya the -name- of one. 

And I wonder why because almost the first thing ANY critic will say in describing ANY of the shoob's works, instrumental or vocal, is 'operatic'. The guy was a lot like Mozart... it's all one big, long, lyrical melody.

So... how come?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Perhaps they are not that appealing to the crowd out there, I've seen Fierrabras once on Telly, that was enough.
Here's a list of recordings.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/wi/Schubert/Operas


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

With all due respect, that's kind of a flip answer... almost a circular reference.

I'm no opera 'buff' but the repertoire is pretty small. And I see LOTS of smaller works, even Baroque stuff revived from time to time.

It begs the question: could his operas -really- be of such a lower quality than his art songs or piano sonatas, etc? And if so, why?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

suntower said:


> With all due respect, that's kind of a flip answer... almost a circular reference.
> 
> I'm no opera 'buff' but the repertoire is pretty small. And I see LOTS of smaller works, even Baroque stuff revived from time to time.
> 
> It begs the question: could his operas -really- be of such a lower quality than his art songs or piano sonatas, etc? And if so, why?


I really think they are rather dull, he made some great works, his operas not alas.


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

suntower said:


> I'm no spring chicken. I've seen dozens of productions and it just dawned on me... NEVER seen a Schubert composition. Couldn't even tell ya the -name- of one.
> 
> And I wonder why because almost the first thing ANY critic will say in describing ANY of the shoob's works, instrumental or vocal, is 'operatic'. The guy was a lot like Mozart... it's all one big, long, lyrical melody.
> 
> So... how come?


Poor libretti afflicted most of Schubert's several operas.

But there are some recordings. Have a look on ArkivMusik or PrestoClassical. You'll find listings of the available recordings. Select composers/Schubert/opera.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

His operas are fine but they are not among the greatest. They do get performed from time to time but there are so many other operas that are better so these get recorded or performed instead.
They also have rather lousy librettos.


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

Interesting. A completely un-informed comment at this point... I have -never- warmed to most of the shoob's music... I find it neither as muscularl as Beethoven nor as compelling as Mozart. It just feels, well, kinda gutless to me. Like a guy who lived with his mother all his life. Someone who never really -lived-. Maybe one needs to have some real guts in order to write decent opera.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

suntower said:


> Interesting. A completely un-informed comment at this point... I have -never- warmed to most of the shoob's music... I find it neither as muscularl as Beethoven nor as compelling as Mozart. It just feels, well, kinda gutless to me. Like a guy who lived with his mother all his life. Someone who never really -lived-. Maybe one needs to have some real guts in order to write decent opera.


Henrik died when he was 31 not that many of the really popular operas are written by composers that young. Wagners early operas are also seldom performed the same with really early Verdi.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

It takes somebody such as a conductor to champion the music. Classical and opera history is full of great works that went unperformed for a century or more until someone had a belief in the quality of the work.

I haven't had a chance to see a Schubert opera, and operabase.com doesn't list any future performances anywhere in the world. :-(


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I think "Alfonso und Estrella" is a nice work, perhaps a trifle too long. It's true that the libretto is not great drama, but the music is consistently good, and some numbers ("Der Jäger ruhte hingegossen", "Schon wenn es beginnt zu tagen", "Doch im Getümmel der Schlacht",...) are small Romantic jewels.






To a lesser extent, I'm also fond of "Fierrabras".


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Schubert died at a very young age, he was just 31. During his life, he was only known and appreciated as a composer within his small circle of friends and admirers. He had an exceptional talent for composing, also for the human voice. He wrote more than 600 songs and song cycles like Winterreise. I'm sure his talent would have resulted in some amazing opera's if he would have had the opportunity and the time to live a longer life. Just consider he died leaving 9 symphonies of which many are among the standard repertoire today. To create opera, there is so much involved, especially a commercial part, which was completely out of his reach. It is most likely that some of his works, including ballet music and opera, were destroyed during his lifetime. What is available now is very limited and are more like experiments and first attempts by Schubert. Even a genius like Schubert would have needed some time to excel in the genre, consider the early opera's of Mozart. Some conductors have taking it upon them to get some of these works staged. Salzburg festival had some productions the past years.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I wonder if the operas could be reworked with new librettos, that's assuming the tunes are good, which I can take a guess and say they are.

I notice that Haydn's operas have much the same fate. I don't know how they work in the theatre but at home on the record player they sound rather nice.


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

You make an excellent point. I've heard piano/voice versions of bits of LVB's 'Leonore' and they ain't too good, whew. And Schubert doesn't strike me as a particularly mature/stable guy to begin with.



Dongiovanni said:


> Schubert died at a very young age, he was just 31. During his life, he was only known and appreciated as a composer within his small circle of friends and admirers. He had an exceptional talent for composing, also for the human voice. He wrote more than 600 songs and song cycles like Winterreise. I'm sure his talent would have resulted in some amazing opera's if he would have had the opportunity and the time to live a longer life. Just consider he died leaving 9 symphonies of which many are among the standard repertoire today. To create opera, there is so much involved, especially a commercial part, which was completely out of his reach. It is most likely that some of his works, including ballet music and opera, were destroyed during his lifetime. What is available now is very limited and are more like experiments and first attempts by Schubert. Even a genius like Schubert would have needed some time to excel in the genre, consider the early opera's of Mozart. Some conductors have taking it upon them to get some of these works staged. Salzburg festival had some productions the past years.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Though not exactly an "opera" the one-act singspiel, Die Zwillingsbrüder, sounds interesting from the synopsis at Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Zwillingsbrüder


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Though not exactly an "opera" the one-act singspiel, Die Zwillingsbrüder, sounds interesting from the synopsis at Wikipedia.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Zwillingsbrüder


Why not listen to it:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sloe said:


> Why not listen to it:


Thanks, listening now. I like singspiels.  Wish there were a DVD performance of this available.


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks. Totally O/T, but.... Is there much call for opera in Detroit? I lived there for years and I honestly can't recall.


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

Indeed. I'm sure it's not a popular sentiment, but I almost never enjoy listening to opera unless I've -seen- it... so I can visualise the action.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

suntower said:


> Thanks. Totally O/T, but.... Is there much call for opera in Detroit? I lived there for years and I honestly can't recall.


http://www.michiganopera.org/


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

Dang. I used to go to the DSO all the time. Never recalled MOT. That "Silent Night" looks interesting.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

suntower said:


> Indeed. I'm sure it's not a popular sentiment, but I almost never enjoy listening to opera unless I've -seen- it... so I can visualise the action.


I do get much more out of an opera if I can watch it and so try to buy a DVD to watch. After a few viewings, the recording makes a lot more sense.

I used to go to the Michigan Opera Theatre (and the MET touring in Detroit) back in the 1980s. Don't remember much of it or what operas I saw other than Rigoletto sounds familiar, saw the Magic Flute, and twice saw Hansel and Gretel, among others, but no subtitles back then.

From the link Pugg posted, it appears they don't do much opera these days. Back in the 1980s I think they did only opera--well they did Sweeny Todd, which I saw, and that is not exactly an opera, is it?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

suntower said:


> Dang. I used to go to the DSO all the time. Never recalled MOT. That "Silent Night" looks interesting.


My pleasure. ..........................


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Schubert certainly doesn't rank among the greatest opera composers , but the two which I know, from both recordings and DVD , "Alfonso & Estrella" and "Fierrabras", are well worth hearing and deserve to
be revived occasionally . 
They're not very theatrically effective and the librettos are mediocre at best , but they contain a lot of wonderful music filled with Schubert's legendary melodic richness . I've seen the DVDs of Fierrabras from Zurich with Franz Welser-Most conducting and Alfonso & Estrella with Harnoncourt conducting 
plus the DG live recording of a performance in Vienna conducted by the late. great Claudio Abbado ,
and the classic EMI recording of Alfonso with Fischer-Dieskau, , Hermann Prey, Edith Mathis,Theo Adam and Peter Schreier ( what a cast !) conducted by the late Otmar Suitner . I'm glad I had the opportunity to experience these .


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

suntower said:


> Thanks. Totally O/T, but.... Is there much call for opera in Detroit? I lived there for years and I honestly can't recall.


I attended Carmen at the Detroit Opera House three weeks ago. It was phenomenal.


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