# Edgard Varese and stravinsky



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

i i bought desert a while ago, i may be wrong saying this but it's my vision*.Varese *at time paralel the 'brute force' or 'force majeure' of* stravinky *spring rites.

Since i real like these recording what should i pick up next,should i go whit more Varese or more Stravinsky?

What about some obscure composer that paralel there 'brutality' and 'loudness factor' of these two??
That is all for now,.:tiphat:


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Other than more Varese...Amériques, Arcana. Try Prokofiev's Scythian Suite, 2nd and 3rd symphonies.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Most of Stravinsky's work doesn't have the visceral impact of _Rite_, but it's still fine music for all of that. Try out the Symphony in Three Movements next; it recaptures some of the Rite's rhythmic energy. I'm very fond of Les Noces, which is a ballet score for four pianos, percussion, and singers, and is probably the most Russian-sounding music he wrote.

As for Varese, Ameriques is of course the place to go if you don't know it yet.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

deprofundis said:


> i i bought desert a while ago, i may be wrong saying this but it's my vision*.Varese *at time paralel the 'brute force' or 'force majeure' of* stravinky *spring rites.
> 
> *Since i real like these recording what should i pick up next,should i go whit more Varese or more Stravinsky?*
> 
> ...


He's not exactly "obscure" anymore, but Iannis Xenakis delivers what you term "brutality" and "loudness factor". Give his orchestral music a try before you do anything else.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Although this composer will alternate from loud to soft in a piece, much of this one's music is _Big Sounding,_ with _Extended Lengths of Pieces Played F to FFF._
*Olivier Messiaen ~ Turangalila Symphony*





Of *Stravinsky*, I second the mention of _*Les Noces*,_ for solo singers, chamber choir, four pianos and percussion; 












etc.
...
too, the _*Symphony in Three Movements*_ has a drive to it and is 'brash.'
I would add to that a strong recommendation for his _*Concerto for two solo pianos (Concerto per due pianoforti soli)*._ -- here, 1st of four movements.




...
_Le Sacre du Printemps_ was part of a fashionable trend of _Primitivism,_ and that also had a strong stripe of the nationalism in the arts still in favor at the time, so we have "Pictures of Pagan Russia" from both Stravinsky, and another ballet score by Prokofiev (much 'tamer' but still an energetic and nice set of pieces), from which the Suite exists.
*Prokofiev ~ Scythian Suite*




Similarly, we have another Ballet Score which is aggressively dissonant and highly energetic. in its opening at least, also on a 'non-Christian' or 'pre Christian era" theme...
*Béla Bartók 
The Miraculous Mandarin*




Another pagan-themed work by Bartók, not as 'wild' sounding but lush and modern, and I think not to be missed
_Cantata Profana_[/B]




...
ADD: other exciting primitavist pieces,
Alberto Ginastera:
_Cantata para America Magica_ for soprano, thirteen percussionists playing (about) 52 percussion instruments -- :xyl/marimba/glsp/3Indian dr/SD/TD/2BD/6tpl.bl/7cyms/2 cowbells/3tam-t/2ant.cym/2bongos/chimes/3tgl/reco-reco/claves/ 3maracas/chocolho/guiro/3metal sistra/sea-shells/sleigh-bells/pair of stones-2pft-cel.




_Popol Vuh_: large orchestral work based on the Mayan version of the Creation.




..END ADD.
...
Less about Primitivism, but an energetic and modern piece you might also enjoy
Bohuslav Martinů - Double Concerto for 2 string orchestras, piano 





There is not so much by Varese.

I would call your collection complete if you had the following. *(I've set in bold two larger orchestral pieces you might especially like.)*
...*Amériques* for large orchestra (revised 1927)
...



Offrandes
Hyperprism
Octandre
Intégrales
...*Arcana* for large orchestra...



Ionisation for 13 percussion players
Ecuatorial for bass voice (or unison male chorus), brass, organ, percussion and theremins (revised for ondes-martenots in 1961)
Density 21.5 for solo flute
Déserts
Poème électronique


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## kanefer (Sep 25, 2018)

I am/was wondering if possibly Igor Stravinsky had stolen Edgard Varese's music for his Rite of Spring. This all came about inadvertently, as I'd read that Frank Zappa had greatly respected Varese, and so I researched Varese. Varese had a very unique and radically different intellectual view of music as "organized sound" or "organized noise," (a cohesive intellectual view that is reflected in Zappa's music, btw). Varese was a bohemian and a genius, who fearlessly regarded and portrayed music in a completely different way. I think it is possible that somewhere along the line, Edgard shared one of his compositions with Igor, and Igor simply stole it, elaborated it a little, spiffied it up you might say, and got all the notoriety. I think this because it is Varese's Bohemian philosophy that shows forth in the Rite of Spring! While seeking support for my suspicions, i came across this interesting tidbit from an obituary in the Guardian.com about Robert Craft: "...Stravinsky was easily led, in the sense that he could not help mimicking and stealing from others. As Craft himself pointed out, an anecdote recounted at the Stravinskys’ dinner-table one day would be retailed by the maestro as his own the next."


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