# Aggression in Classical Music without Dissonance and also in Pre-1700s



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I am looking for examples of aggressive classical music without dissonance and also in pre-1700's music. I know there is also some in Medieval music. I don't mean completely without dissonance at times but not like the fully dissonant later modern works.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Of course the most obvious aggressor would be Beethoven with examples found in almost any of his works, but the String Quartet No 11 Op 95 "Serioso" is the first that came to mind for me.


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## Clairvoyance Enough (Jul 25, 2014)

The baroque era is my go to for surprising and aggressive rhythms, that is if you can navigate through the minefield of awful slow tempo recordings and find the good stuff. Some of my favorites:

Handel overtures
Theodora 



Rodelinda 



Jephtha 




Telemann string sextet in G minor 



And just the minor key sextets in general.

Zelenka Trio Sonata in C minor, especially the first allegro





The gigue from Bach's 2nd cello suite.




The first chorus from Bach's 26th cantata




This aria from Bach's Christmas oratorio 





Geminiani concerto grosso 3


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2016)

By the objective definition of dissonance, Bach is WAY more dissonant than Schoenberg


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Yes, Bach is generally pretty dissonant even when you don't realize it, Ravel is another good example of that kind of thing.

Composers like Beethoven, Handel and Haydn come to mind in response to the OP's query.

As far as pre 1700's? That is tougher. Not too hard to find relatively consonant music, but nothing comes to mind that I would classify as particularly aggressive while being consonant.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

For pre-1700's maybe this:


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

There is authentic medieval battle music that exists because I have heard it on YouTube. The problem is that medieval battle music has been replicated by fans of fantasy games and the like, and that's all I've been able to find lately. There is actually a lot of medieval music that has drumming.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nathanb said:


> By the objective definition of dissonance, Bach is WAY more dissonant than Schoenberg


By the _objective_ definition - i.e. the acoustic definition, which refers to the ratios of overtones between pitches - Schoenberg is way more dissonant. By the tonal definition, Bach is more dissonant - but also more consonant. It never occurred to Bach to "emancipate" the dissonance.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> I am looking for examples of aggressive classical music without dissonance and also in pre-1700's music. I know there is also some in Medieval music. I don't mean completely without dissonance at times but not like the fully dissonant later modern works.


Monteverdi's Il combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda is actually a study in how to represent aggression in music, the composer discusses it at length in the preface to the score. I once listened to a lot of different performances to see which is most successful at playing Monteverdi's intended affects - and the winner by far was Harnoncourt.

There will be lots of examples in opera - Canio at the end, Otello in Act 3, Grimes in the hut, Achilles after the death of Patrochlus in Tippett's opera, Wotan after Bruenhilde's defiance, the monks at Monsalvat demanding the revelation of the shrine . . . Oratorio too - think of the crowd in the Matthew Passion calling for Jesus's death.

Of the above you should certainly try to hear Achilles's war cry in Tippett's King Priam

There's a performance of Debussy's piano duet "En Blanc et Noir" by Paul Jacobs and Gilbert Kalish, it's on Paul Jacobs' recording of the Debussy Etudes. It was made after Jacobs was diagnosed with the illness which killed him, and I think he makes the music full of aggression, anger.

When Thomas Cromwell destroyed the Catholic shrine at Walsingham in the UK, the song As I Went to Walsingham became a sort of Anthem for persecuted Catholics, who were angry at their treatment. John Bull wrote a set of keyboard variations on the tune, which Leon Berben used to play in concert, and he managed to use the music to express very powerful anger (not unjustifiably) There used to be a concert recording on YouTube - if it's been taken off I can let you have it.

Another thing to explore for anger are the final two gigues in J S Bach's English suites, especially the D minor. Richard Egarr is particularly good at expressing the emotions of the music.

Organ is great for these emotions. I recall a very aggressive performance of the 6 part ricercar from Bach's Musical Offering by Gerhard Weinberger, for example. Some of Suzuki's Clavier Übung 3 possibly also.

And I've always sensed an aggressive quality to Pollini's Beethoven op 2. Schubert D 958 also (Pollini again)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> There is authentic medieval battle music that exists because I have heard it on YouTube. The problem is that medieval battle music has been replicated by fans of fantasy games and the like, and that's all I've been able to find lately. There is actually a lot of medieval music that has drumming.


Ah yes, I know what you want now! Persephassa by Iannis Xenakis. It is not particularly dissonant. It is for percussion. It is wonderful.


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