# Bishop Alfeyev, a XXIth century's miracle



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilarion_Alfeyev

He's quite young. His music is awesome and a bit "old Russian stuff".

Please listen to this:






Who said that contemporary music had to be atonal?

Sincerely,

Martin


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

its quite good, ill admit, follows some more modern harmonies (im thinking of what Ive heard from some movie scores) and shows a bit of bach in his cadences (which no one uses anymore)

but, considering its a mass, It would be hard to find a church that would accept an Atonal or Aleatoric mass, much like how Opera is still written tonally to keep people from being pushed away from it.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

A remarkable work which I feel would be welcomed in any church althoughI was under the opinion that orchestral or instrument accompaniment was not used in the russian Orthodox Church. But perhaps things have changed. I am puzzled by Igneous01's comment regarding Atonality. In the portion included on the post I heard none. Not that that would deter me from liking it.

From the biography link Martin provided Metropolitan Alfeyev is an extraordinary individual. Thank you, Martin, for this discovery.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

I was implying my response to the title of the thread: "21st century miracle" what I thought meant thank goodness Tonality is back kind of thing. Hence my reasons for stating why More modern techniques of composing are not generally well received for something like a mass or opera.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I think this is quite tonal...Isn't it? Atonality was just a fashion...in my head, I like both when the music is good and valuable. Nevertheless, you have a lot of tonal sh...or melodramatic (e.g. Rachmaninov's second piano concerto)....some Saint-Saëns...

Martin


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I will have to listen to this later...sounds fascinating...


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> I will have to listen to this later...sounds fascinating...


spaciba! I'm glad you liked it! Sometimes I feel like I have a "mission" to "spread" Russian music. And I feel so well when people start knowing "new" or neglected Russian composers...

Thank you again, this time in English

Martin


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Sounds like neo-medieval elevator music.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

GoneBaroque said:


> A remarkable work which I feel would be welcomed in any church althoughI was under the opinion that orchestral or instrument accompaniment was not used in the russian Orthodox Church. But perhaps things have changed. I am puzzled by Igneous01's comment regarding Atonality. In the portion included on the post I heard none. Not that that would deter me from liking it.
> 
> From the biography link Martin provided Metropolitan Alfeyev is an extraordinary individual. Thank you, Martin, for this discovery.


You are very welcome! I bought the 2 CDs (a box). Not atonal at all.

:tiphat:

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Dodecaplex said:


> Sounds like neo-medieval elevator music.


do you think you're funny?

Martin


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> do you think you're funny?
> 
> Martin


No. I was serious.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Who said that contemporary music had to be atonal?


No one. Or rather, only anti-modernists who put these words into the mouths of the pro-modernists.

Igneous, there are plenty of nontonal contemporary operas. I have dozens myself and have heard dozens more (well, OK, ones or twos more) live.

There are people whom atonality or aleatorism do not push away. (And who welcome all the other things that have been going on in music over the past hundred years.) The word "people" includes a lot of individuals who admire contemporary art music, a lot who abhor it, and a whole lot who could care less.

(If there were atonal or aleatoric masses, I would consider going back to church, myself. Last I checked, my personhood was pretty complete. No alien or beastial flummery.)


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Eh I thought it was ok. There are some good moments, but I didn't think it was anything to rave about. Sorry Myaskovsky. If it made you feel any better I quite enjoyed the videos you have posted of Myaskovky's music a lot.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I enjoyed it. Minimalistic for sure. Perhaps not awfully original but not at all hard to listen to.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

violadude said:


> Eh I thought it was ok. There are some good moments, but I didn't think it was anything to rave about. Sorry Myaskovsky. If it made you feel any better I quite enjoyed the videos you have posted of Myaskovky's music a lot.


No problem. You don't have to be sorry. @&^%()***^&%&%&%^&&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ******* LOL!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> I enjoyed it. Minimalistic for sure. Perhaps not awfully original but not at all hard to listen to.


Minimalistic? I am not sure what minimilastic means...Could you define this term for me? I thought it was music at its minimal expression..Is it not? I even thought Luigi Nono was minimalist, they told me and I have read he's not...I guess I don't know any more. Thank you for your time explaining me.

Martin, ignorant


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Minimalistic? I am not sure what minimilastic means...Could you define this term for me? I thought it was music at its minimal expression..Is it not? I even thought Luigi Nono was minimalist, they told me and I have read he's not...I guess I don't know any more. Thank you for your time explaining me.
> 
> Martin, ignorant


Well, there is not an abundance of thematic material here. There is much repitition of what material there is and there are persistent ostinato figures on the cellos and the bases; ostinato patterns like this are common in minimalism. A sort of chugging effect, if you will.

Certainly, there is nothing wrong with any of this. I'd suggest looking up minimalism on your handy computer and read a more official definition. I think you will see where I am coming from on this.

Minimalism is great!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> Well, there is not an abundance of thematic material here. There is much repitition of what material there is and there are persistent ostinato figures on the cellos and the bases; ostinato patterns like this are common in minimalism. A sort of chugging effect, if you will.
> 
> Certainly, there is nothing wrong with any of this. I'd suggest looking up minimalism on your handy computer and read a more official definition. I think you will see where I am coming from on this.
> 
> Minimalism is great!


I think I understand something...Philipp Glass is a minimalist because he repeats over and over again...Hummm. I don't like his music...I think it is kind of elementary. I thought minimalist was different than elementary music...if not, I don't like minimalistic music...I thought minimalism was "music as its minimun expression, "unadorned"...Probably I'm wrong...I don't like repetition very much. I have the two CDs of the passion, and there is a variation...

Let me see...I found this...quite interesting:
===============================================
The idea of minimalism is much larger than most people realize. It includes, by definition, any music that works with limited or minimal materials: pieces that use only a few notes, pieces that use only a few words of text, or pieces written for very limited instruments, such as antique cymbals, bicycle wheels, or whiskey glasses. It includes pieces that sustain one basic electronic rumble for a long time. It includes pieces made exclusively from recordings of rivers and streams. It includes pieces that move in endless circles. It includes pieces that set up an unmoving wall of saxophone sound. It includes pieces that take a very long time to move gradually from one kind of music to another kind. It includes pieces that permit all possible pitches, as long as they fall between C and D. It includes pieces that slow the tempo down to two or three notes per minute.[9]
==================================================================
I wasn't that wrong though...It doesn't require necessarily repetition...IMHO Glass is an empty-headed guy other than a minimalist.
He uses repetition because of two things: a) He thinks people are moron and need to listen to the same music several times; b) he lacks of imagination...Of course this is MY OPINION.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I think I understand something...Philipp Glass is a minimalist because he repeats over and over again...Hummm. I don't like his music...I think it is kind of elementary. I thought minimalist was different than elementary music...if not, I don't like minimalistic music...I thought minimalism was "music as its minimun expression, "unadorned"...Probably I'm wrong...I don't like repetition very much. I have the two CDs of the passion, and there is a variation...
> 
> Let me see...I found this...quite interesting:
> ===============================================
> ...


Minimalism is not defined exclusievly by the music of Philip Glass.

Glass is perhaps the most extreme of the well known minimalist composers. This is why he is the most hated. 

But if you listen to the music of Adams, Pärt or Kilar...and even my man Ifukube, one gets the feeling that things are being kept to a minimum. but things are not necessarily repeating over and over and over like a skipping record, though in certain sections you may have such motifs.

The fact that we hear the same theme several times in this piece, with little to no variation (that I can hear having heard it only once), not to mention its insistant pulsating low strings, at the very least, gives this piece of music a minimalist flavor.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Tapkaara said:


> Minimalism is not defined exclusievly by the music of Philip Glass.
> 
> Glass is perhaps the most extreme of the well known minimalist composers. This is why he is the most hated.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I confess when I listened a little Arvo Pärt I wasn't conquered and I didn't insist...I have a huge white list...In order to be selective, I have also built a black list...Don't you have one? Pärt is actually in my black one...Maybe you could "post" me a youtube link...It's never too late to change your mind....changing from black to gray...or even white. LOL

Adam...Haven't I listened to his doctor Atomic on youtube? and I didn't like it really. I don't fancy American composers very much, I guess.

"People who don't eat well, cannot compose good music" - Martin Pitchon - LOL

Martin


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I think I understand something...Philipp Glass is a minimalist because he repeats over and over again...Hummm. I don't like his music...I think it is kind of elementary. I thought minimalist was different than elementary music...if not, I don't like minimalistic music...I thought minimalism was "music as its minimun expression, "unadorned"...Probably I'm wrong...I don't like repetition very much. I have the two CDs of the passion, and there is a variation...
> 
> Let me see...I found this...quite interesting:
> ===============================================
> ...


The definition you give of Minimalism is spot on. I very much like the music of Arvo Part who is a true minimalist while I do not find much in Philip glass who is whatever he is.



myaskovsky2002 said:


> spaciba! I'm glad you liked it! Sometimes I feel like I have a "mission" to "spread" Russian music. And I feel so well when people start knowing "new" or neglected Russian composers...
> 
> Thank you again, this time in English
> 
> Martin


A Noble mission, Truly.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilarion_Alfeyev
> 
> He's quite young. His music is awesome and a bit "old Russian stuff".


Interesting music and enjoyable. Thanks. If only we had more of music like this composed today, and not the weird crappy junk stuff.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2011)

So glad that HC does not have the power to ram his narrow tastes down our throats, has no way of ensuring that music he doesn't like can never be heard by the people who do enjoy it. 

He also does not have the power to distinguish between quality and what he happens to like. That would be a nice power for him to have, I think.

Anyway Martin, yes indeed your idea of minimalism is spot on. The repetition strand of it is only one strand--it just happens to be the strand everyone knows about. And Glass and Adams are not nor have they ever seen themselves as being minimalists. (The ones who do identify themselves as minimalists tend not to be the repetition kind. There's irony for ya!)


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well...The good thing is that I have learned something that I am far to forget. Thanks to you, some guy. I love learning new stuff!

Thanks again!

Sincerely,

Martin


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