# Liszt's Piano Sonta



## lextune

Let's talk about your favorite versions of the Liszt Sonata!

Some years ago I made a blog post about this very subject, and will happily share it here now, on this, (new to me) forum.



lextune said:


> A masterpiece like the Franz Liszt's Sonata in B minor can never have a final and definitive interpretation of course, but after working on it, (or even just studying the score in great detail) one begins to expect certain things from any performance.
> 
> It has been recorded more than 60 times by the latest count (source: International Piano), and I personally have about 30-some-odd recordings of it.
> 
> I thought I might list the ones I like the most (and least).
> 
> I find Horowitz' first account (1932) too fast, and the second one (1976) too affected, almost to the point of parody, and yet somehow, both are still brilliant and captivating.
> 
> Argerich's recording is famous and nothing short of amazing at times, but it strikes me as very rushed. I do not say she plays it that way, "just because she can", (I am sure she really feels it that way), but for me it does not work as a whole.
> 
> Leslie Howard's version is almost unbearably bland and fast to the point of total failure. It is a shame since during his incredible traversal of the complete works, he blessed us with so much wonderful Liszt. To quote another reviewer "unfortunately he makes it sound like just another opera transcription".
> 
> Brendel's 1981 reading is brilliant, his fugue is one of the best, and his structural power is, not surprisingly, incredible.
> 
> Richter (a number of live recordings) and Gilels (live, and a 1964 studio) are both stupendous. Filled to the brim with power, and yet elegant and beautiful.
> 
> Cziffra dazzles and has a exquisite tone through much of the work, but he comes off as quite episodic, with little overall structure.
> 
> Zimmerman's recording (1990) is wonderful and obviously planned down to every detail. The pacing and tempo relations are among the best achieved.
> 
> Pollini is fantastic. Sleek and modern, he builds the piece like an edifice of sound.
> 
> Pogorelich's rendition is another amazing one. Compare Pollini and Pogorelich and you can see how truly inexhaustible the work is. They could not be more different, but both work to great effect. Pogorelich is slower than most in many parts, but wildly fast in some of the faster sections. He seems to walk a tightrope, switching from gigantic power to amazing lightness.
> 
> John Ogden's 1964 recording is quite a disappointment, episodic to the point disconnection.
> 
> If I absolutely had to pick just one recording though, it would be Arrau's 1970 recording. Seemingly carved from granite, it is a monument to structural cohesiveness, but structure is not the main feeling one gets from the interpretation. It is beautiful in tone, and free from all traces of affectation, but it is not just a "pretty" rendition. He has power to spare (in the vein of Horowitz and Richter), but never bangs, all the fortissimos are deep and rich sounding.
> 
> There are many more worth mentioning, but this is a good place to start.
> 
> My recommendations:
> 
> Arrau
> Brendel
> Gilels
> Pogorelich
> Pollini
> Richter
> Zimmerman


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## Valjuan

I'm glad you put Zimerman on the list. His has been my favorite for a while. Heartfelt, with all the technical facets well in hand.


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## silentio

How about Cortot?


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## Pugg

I never made s study of them but I do know that the most moving for me is Ivo Pogorelich, followed by Van Cliburn.


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## KenOC

For me, the performance on Martha Argerich's debut CD. Not actually from her debut recital, but never mind.


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## DavidA

Of recordings I have:

Argerich
Brendel
Richter
Anda
Graffmann
Van Cliburn
Gilles
Yuja Wang
Freiere
Rubinstein
Fleisher
Cziffra
Ogden

And a few others. They all have something to say about the work.


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## Pugg

DavidA said:


> Of recordings I have:
> 
> Argerich
> Brendel
> Richter
> Anda
> Graffmann
> Van Cliburn
> Gilles
> Yuja Wang
> Freiere
> Rubinstein
> Fleisher
> Cziffra
> Ogden
> 
> And a few others. They all have something to say about the work.


I am shocked....... no Pogorelich, or is he just one of the few others?


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## DavidA

Pugg said:


> I am shocked....... no Pogorelich, or is he just one of the few others?


No I haven't his recording


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## jegreenwood

Not a big fan of Liszt overall. I only have the Argerich. But I vividly recall Garrick Ohlsson's live performance reviewed here.


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## hpowders

I'm not a Liszt fan as other posters well-know, but I will attempt to re-acquaint myself with this sonata.

I remember playing it as a misguided youth over my mom's cacophonous pleas to "Clean up your room!!""


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## hpowders

DavidA said:


> Of recordings I have:
> 
> Argerich
> Brendel
> Richter
> Anda
> Graffmann
> Van Cliburn
> Gilles
> Yuja Wang
> Freiere
> Rubinstein
> Fleisher
> Cziffra
> Ogden
> 
> And a few others. They all have something to say about the work.


So, of all these, which 2-3 stand above the rest? I'm planning on re-aquainting myself with this sonata and I need some help beyond the usual psychological.

Thanks!


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## Marinera

There's Arrau's medal winning Toronto performance of this sonata. The only available issue on disc is Diapason release together with Horowitz and Barere's versions. I checked with Arrauhouse website and it is indeed unavailable anywhere else though Diapason's release is not mentioned there for some reason, it was only released in 2011 Liszt Illuminated now anavailbe also, or for the stupid price only.


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## realdealblues

I have about 20 recordings of the Liszt B Minor Sonata...

Claudio Arrau's 70's recording is the benchmark for me.

Argerich (DG) and Richter (Philips) are also right up there. Brendel (Philips) was a great Liszt interpreter and is up there for me as well. Fleisher's recording on CBS/Sony one of the best. Rubinstein & Watts are also sentimental favorites.

There's really some great recordings of this one.


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## JACE

The two recordings that I return to most frequently are by *François-Frédéric Guy* (Zig Zag Territories) and *Ivo Pogorelić* (DG).

Of course, *Martha Argerich* is a thrill ride. I've enjoyed *Andrea Lucchesini*'s recording as well.

*Clifford Curzon* is the only recording that I have that strikes me as a misfire. I think he isn't a good fit temperament-wise for Liszt.

*Lazar Berman* is usually my main man when it comes to Liszt, but -- for some reason -- I've never heard his famous Melodiya recording of the B minor Sonata.


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## hpowders

So Arrau, eh? Getting a bit Chile in here.


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## Mandryka

lextune said:


> Let's talk about your favorite versions of the Liszt Sonata!
> 
> Some years ago I made a blog post about this very subject, and will happily share it here now, on this, (new to me) forum.


You may want to try Ernst Levy, this is my favourite. Possibly Nikolai Demidenko also.


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## lextune

I have Levy's recording. It is an amazing 2CD set actually. The Liszt Sonata, the Benediction, Beethoven's Hammerklavier, and op.111, and some pieces composed by Levy himself.

While his Liszt Sonata does succeed in holding my interest, I can't really say I love it. It is of another time. It's tempo relations, and dynamic swings are just too much for me. He blatantly ignores many of Liszt's instructions. It makes for an extremely dramatic interpretation, one that shouldn't be missed, but it can't be said to be authoritative.


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## Guest

Denis Matsuev's on his live Carnegie Hall recording is wonderful. Other favorites include Ivo Pogorelich, Lazar Berman, Sviatoslav Richter's Praga recording, Khatia Buniatishvili, and Daniil Trifonov's live Carnegie Hall recording (the least demonic of the bunch, but it's beautifully played).


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## Animal the Drummer

I have Bela Siki playing the Liszt Sonata and the Paganini Etudes on a cherished old Pye LP. There's no whiff of brimstone about that recording either, but I've rarely if ever heard more musicianly performances since.


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## jegreenwood

realdealblues said:


> I have about 20 recordings of the Liszt B Minor Sonata...
> 
> Claudio Arrau's 70's recording is the benchmark for me.
> 
> Argerich (DG) and Richter (Philips) are also right up there. Brendel (Philips) was a great Liszt interpreter and is up there for me as well. Fleisher's recording on CBS/Sony one of the best. Rubinstein & Watts are also sentimental favorites.
> 
> There's really some great recordings of this one.


Thanks for reminding me. I have the Rubinstein mega-box, so I have his Liszt. I don't think I've listened to it yet.


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## hpowders

How about the Sviatoslav Richter performance?


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## Vaneyes

No Sonta found yet? Nevermind.


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## hpowders

Vaneyes said:


> No Sonta found yet? Nevermind.


No wonder! I've been googling Liszt Sonata. Liszt Sonta works just fine! Thanks for the tip!! :tiphat:


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## Pugg

Kontrapunctus said:


> Denis Matsuev's on his live Carnegie Hall recording is wonderful. Other favorites include Ivo Pogorelich, Lazar Berman, Sviatoslav Richter's Praga recording, Khatia Buniatishvili, and Daniil Trifonov's live Carnegie Hall recording (the least demonic of the bunch, but it's beautifully played).


And what a piano player he is !!


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## lextune

hpowders said:


> How about the Sviatoslav Richter performance?


There are a several different recordings of Richter playing the Liszt Sonata. Most of them from the 60's if I am not mistaken, (I have three recordings, all from '65).

As I said in the original post, Richter is stupendous. Beautiful tone, power to spare.


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## Pat Fairlea

hpowders said:


> So Arrau, eh? Getting a bit Chile in here.


So Uruguay who likes a bad pun?

As for the Liszt, Brendel of the recordings that I have. Watts of the recordings I have ever heard. Best live performance I ever heard of the Liszt was Andre Tchaikovsky.


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## ahinton

Pat Fairlea said:


> So Uruguay who likes a bad pun?
> 
> As for the Liszt, Brendel of the recordings that I have. Watts of the recordings I have ever heard. Best live performance I ever heard of the Liszt was Andre Tchaikovsky.


Best I ever heard was by Ronald Smith, although not far from that was one by Yonty Solomon; sadly, neither recorded the work.


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> There are a several different recordings of Richter playing the Liszt Sonata. Most of them from the 60's if I am not mistaken, (I have three recordings, all from '65).
> 
> As I said in the original post, Richter is stupendous. Beautiful tone, power to spare.


I ordered the Stephen Hough. I may branch out from there. Thanks for the info!


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## hpowders

Pat Fairlea said:


> So Uruguay who likes a bad pun?
> 
> As for the Liszt, Brendel of the recordings that I have. Watts of the recordings I have ever heard. Best live performance I ever heard of the Liszt was Andre Tchaikovsky.


Guilty as charged. I expect bad punning to be added to the Liszt of ToS violations very soon. I would consider that most punicious.
Might cause me to leave TC in a Hough!


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## DavidA

jegreenwood said:


> Thanks for reminding me. I have the Rubinstein mega-box, so I have his Liszt. I don't think I've listened to it yet.


Rubinstein is quite something in Liszt!


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## Pat Fairlea

hpowders said:


> Guilty as charged. I expect bad punning to be added to the Liszt of ToS violations very soon. I would consider that most punicious.
> Might cause me to leave TC in a Hough!


That could start arrau.

I'll stop now.


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## hpowders

Pat Fairlea said:


> That could start arrau.
> 
> I'll stop now.


Stop when it's a violation. If they ain't ToS'n you, why quit?


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## Pugg

Kontrapunctus said:


> Denis Matsuev's on his live Carnegie Hall recording is wonderful. Other favorites include Ivo Pogorelich, Lazar Berman, Sviatoslav Richter's Praga recording, Khatia Buniatishvili, and Daniil Trifonov's live Carnegie Hall recording (the least demonic of the bunch, but it's beautifully played).


I've heard this ons yesterday , fantastic,
Sill love my Pogorelich also though.


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## DavidA

Just listening to Richter live in 1965 - quite phenomenal. One wonders whether even Liszt himself could play the sonata like this. Really amazing.


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## merlinus

I find Richter (the one on Phillips) to be astounding in technique, and sadly lacking in feeling. That is my response to most of his recordings. I much prefer Arrau, Buniatishvili, Demidenko, and Kissin. Zimerman is on order.


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## hpowders

If you want a thrill, try Khatia Buniatishvili.

(Say that 3 times fast!)


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## Bettina

Stephen Hough. His rendition of it is thoughtful and meditative. 

Many performers (particularly at piano competitions) treat the Liszt sonata as a virtuoso showpiece. I find it refreshing to hear Hough's more contemplative take on this warhorse.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Stephen Hough. His rendition of it is thoughtful and meditative.
> 
> Many performers (particularly at piano competitions) treat the Liszt sonata as a virtuoso showpiece. I find it refreshing to hear Hough's more contemplative take on this warhorse.


Yes. I like his performance very much, thanks to your recommendation.


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> Stephen Hough. His rendition of it is thoughtful and meditative.
> 
> Many performers (particularly at piano competitions) treat the Liszt sonata as a virtuoso showpiece. I find it refreshing to hear Hough's more contemplative take on this warhorse.


Will try this one, thanks for sharing.


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## lextune

hpowders said:


> If you want a thrill, try Khatia Buniatishvili.
> 
> (Say that 3 times fast!)


I had not heard of this pianist so I looked her up on youtube, and found a version of her playing the Liszt Sonata live.

She certainly has big technique, but she really should have let the Liszt Sonata steep a few more years, (or a decade or two; she's young enough). She pounds her way through most of it. Wildly fast in many places, then she'll slam the brakes on to wring out some beautiful pianissimos. Her tempi from section to section have no relation to one another whatsoever, and Liszt's structure is completely absent.

She also rewrites phrases everywhere, or more likely, is not attempting, or thinking, about the phrasing at all. Her entire "interpretation" (I use the term incredibly lightly), consists of "listen to this feather-soft timbre" and "watch the hell out I am going to beat this keyboard to death".

In the end saying it was a terrible interpretation gives it too much credit. She just learned the notes, and tried to make them pretty, and/or devastating. It never reached the level of serious music making.


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## lextune

Bettina said:


> Stephen Hough. His rendition of it is thoughtful and meditative.
> 
> Many performers (particularly at piano competitions) treat the Liszt sonata as a virtuoso showpiece. I find it refreshing to hear Hough's more contemplative take on this warhorse.


Hough is wonderful. Have you seen this app?

http://lisztsonata.touchpress.com/


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> I had not heard of this pianist so I looked her up on youtube, and found a version of her playing the Liszt Sonata live.
> 
> She certainly has big technique, but she really should have let the Liszt Sonata steep a few more years, (or a decade or two; she's young enough). She pounds her way through most of it. Wildly fast in many places, then she'll slam the brakes on to wring out some beautiful pianissimos. Her tempi from section to section have no relation to one another whatsoever, and Liszt's structure is completely absent.
> 
> She also rewrites phrases everywhere, or more likely, is not attempting, or thinking, about the phrasing at all. Her entire "interpretation" (I use the term incredibly lightly), consists of "listen to this feather-soft timbre" and "watch the hell out I am going to beat this keyboard to death".
> 
> In the end saying it was a terrible interpretation gives it too much credit. She just learned the notes, and tried to make them pretty, and/or devastating. It never reached the level of serious music making.


Please place your written complaint in her box....suggestion box, that is.

For you, I'm sure she would gladly change a magnificent thrill into an accurate trill.


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## merlinus

lextune said:


> I had not heard of this pianist so I looked her up on youtube, and found a version of her playing the Liszt Sonata live.
> 
> She certainly has big technique, but she really should have let the Liszt Sonata steep a few more years, (or a decade or two; she's young enough). She pounds her way through most of it. Wildly fast in many places, then she'll slam the brakes on to wring out some beautiful pianissimos. Her tempi from section to section have no relation to one another whatsoever, and Liszt's structure is completely absent.
> 
> She also rewrites phrases everywhere, or more likely, is not attempting, or thinking, about the phrasing at all. Her entire "interpretation" (I use the term incredibly lightly), consists of "listen to this feather-soft timbre" and "watch the hell out I am going to beat this keyboard to death".
> 
> In the end saying it was a terrible interpretation gives it too much credit. She just learned the notes, and tried to make them pretty, and/or devastating. It never reached the level of serious music making.


I could not agree less!!!!


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## lextune

hpowders said:


> For you, I'm sure she would gladly change a magnificent thrill into an accurate trill.


lol....this line is better than her entire "interpretation".


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> I had not heard of this pianist so I looked her up on youtube, and found a version of her playing the Liszt Sonata live.
> 
> She certainly has big technique, but she really should have let the Liszt Sonata steep a few more years, (or a decade or two; she's young enough). She pounds her way through most of it. Wildly fast in many places, then she'll slam the brakes on to wring out some beautiful pianissimos. Her tempi from section to section have no relation to one another whatsoever, and Liszt's structure is completely absent.
> 
> She also rewrites phrases everywhere, or more likely, is not attempting, or thinking, about the phrasing at all. Her entire "interpretation" (I use the term incredibly lightly), consists of "listen to this feather-soft timbre" and "watch the hell out I am going to beat this keyboard to death".
> 
> In the end saying it was a terrible interpretation gives it too much credit. She just learned the notes, and tried to make them pretty, and/or devastating. It never reached the level of serious music making.


This is NOT the performance I was referring to. If you get a chance to hear her commercial RECORDING of the Sonata, please write me back.

Until that time, we are not talking about the same thing.


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## hpowders

merlinus said:


> I could not agree less!!!!


The You Tube tape is NOT the COMMERCIAL recording. The latter is magnificent. The former is not.


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> lol....this line is better than her entire "interpretation".


Thank you. I appreciate that. I try and strike a dissonant chord when appropriate. :tiphat:


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## lextune

merlinus said:


> I could not agree less!!!!


That changes nothing I said.

I am not saying one cannot enjoy it. That is a subjective notion that is completely up to you. But her failure to create a cohesive whole is an objective fact. Hold the score in your hand while she plays. It is nonsense. As I said, she plays the notes (which is the barest beginning of any interpretation, and the easiest part, in the case of musical masterpieces), and nothing else. At least as far as the score goes.

This is not to say she plays without elan, in fact she actually plays the Sonata in a well known, old fashioned way ("Playing to the galleries!") It is filled with panache, and self assuredness, but the place for these things are the Hungarian rhapsodies or some operatic paraphrase, not the Sonata. It is playing like hers that saddled Liszt with the bad reputation that took nearly a century to cleanse.


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## lextune

hpowders said:


> The You Tube tape is NOT the COMMERCIAL recording. The latter is magnificent. The former is not.


Ahhh...I see. A Studio recording?

Maybe she was just having a terrible day on the live performance....or maybe she was rushing to catch a plane?!


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> Ahhh...I see. A Studio recording?
> 
> Maybe she was just having a terrible day on the live performance....or maybe she was rushing to catch a plane?!


Yes. She could NEVER pull off the finger-twisting virtuosity demonstrated in that recording, in a concert setting.

If you ever get a chance to hear that performance, please let me know.

At least in concert, she proves she's human. I had my doubts listening to the studio recording.


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## Vaneyes

hpowders said:


> If you want a thrill, try Khatia Buniatishvili.
> 
> (Say that 3 times fast!)












Yes, but T&A marketing only goes so far. So far, this artist (29) has not done enough, good enough. Contemporaries such as Yuja Wang (29) and Daniil Trifonov (25) have flown by her. A far better bet for Liszt is the latter.

It's getting to be crunchtime for this ol' gal.


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## hpowders

Vaneyes said:


> Yes, but T&A marketing only goes so far. So far, this artist (29) has not done enough, good enough. Contemporaries such as Yuja Wang (29) and Daniil Trifonov (25) have flown by her. A far better bet for Liszt is the latter.
> 
> It's getting to be crunchtime for this ol' gal.


She can come over and play for me any time. However I am currently on "probation" from being a human being. 

NONETHELESS, I put her on my Liszt for the first day I am released from serving probation!


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## hpowders

Look, the Buniatishvili studio recording is a once in a while listening affair. She plays too fast in the virtuosic passages for my brain to absorb the notes. Thrilling, but......

I would be reaching more often for performances with more overall thought-out proportion-where the virtuosity is kept in check a bit more, such as the aforementioned Stephen Hough or Claudio Arrau, to name a few.


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## merlinus

hpowders said:


> The You Tube tape is NOT the COMMERCIAL recording. The latter is magnificent. The former is not.


Of course! I have watched the youtube video and listened to the cd, so I understood what you wrote.


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## merlinus

lextune said:


> That changes nothing I said.
> 
> I am not saying one cannot enjoy it. That is a subjective notion that is completely up to you. But her failure to create a cohesive whole is an objective fact. Hold the score in your hand while she plays. It is nonsense. As I said, she plays the notes (which is the barest beginning of any interpretation, and the easiest part, in the case of musical masterpieces), and nothing else. At least as far as the score goes.
> 
> This is not to say she plays without elan, in fact she actually plays the Sonata in a well known, old fashioned way ("Playing to the galleries!") It is filled with panache, and self assuredness, but the place for these things are the Hungarian rhapsodies or some operatic paraphrase, not the Sonata. It is playing like hers that saddled Liszt with the bad reputation that took nearly a century to cleanse.


As always, YMMV! Since I am clearly far from a concert pianist but yet can play through the sonata, I disagree. I am very interested in the ability to convey feeling and emotions, not merely playing notes. So Richter, Demidenko, Argerich, Pollini, and even Zimerman do not do if for me, in this piece.

And as for "an objective fact," puleeze! Read my sig!


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## merlinus

hpowders said:


> Look, the Buniatishvili studio recording is a once in a while listening affair. She plays too fast in the virtuosic passages for my brain to absorb the notes. Thrilling, but......
> 
> I would be reaching more often for performances with more overall thought-out proportion-where the virtuosity is kept in check a bit more, such as the aforementioned Stephen Hough or Claudio Arrau, to name a few.


Could not find Hough's interpretation on youtube, or anywhere else. The cd version seems to be OOP.

I do like Arrau, however, as he brings out lots of emotion in his playing.


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## hpowders

merlinus said:


> Could not find Hough's interpretation on youtube, or anywhere else. The cd version seems to be OOP.
> 
> I do like Arrau, however, as he brings out lots of emotion in his playing.


I bought it on Amazon. The shipping cost more than the CD.

It's a fine performance, very-well thought out.

Poster Bettina recommended it to me.


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## merlinus

hpowders said:


> I bought it on Amazon. The shipping cost more than the CD.
> 
> It's a fine performance, very-well thought out.
> 
> Poster Bettina recommended it to me.


Thanks for the heads-up. Just found a "used very good" one at amazon for $5.55 including shipping. Look forward to hearing it!


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## chromatic owl

I like this sonata. Can anyone recommend a version performed on a historical instrument?


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## hpowders

merlinus said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. Just found a "used very good" one at amazon for $5.55 including shipping. Look forward to hearing it!


That's a great all-inclusive price. Look forward to your impressions.


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## Guest

For those of you who understand German, here's a video about Buniatishvili--she plays excerpts from the Sonata, Mephisto Waltz, Pictures at an Exhibition, and others.

http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-247291.html


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## hpowders

The next logical step for Ms. Buniatishvili as far as I'm concerned should be the Rach 3 with long first movement cadenza.


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## hpowders

Actually for me, Ms. Buniatishvili is one of the most convincing interpreters of the beautiful poetic passages, of which there are many, in the Liszt Sonata. I'm writing about her studio recording.

I almost wish I could edit out her headstrong virtuosic passages. I find them "distracting" and "unmusical".


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## merlinus

hpowders said:


> The next logical step for Ms. Buniatishvili as far as I'm concerned should be the Rach 3 with long first movement cadenza.


If she does record this piece, it will be an interesting comparison with that of Yuja.


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## Guest

hpowders said:


> The next logical step for Ms. Buniatishvili as far as I'm concerned should be the Rach 3 with long first movement cadenza.


Here you go! I just checked to see that she plays the longer cadenza--she does. Can't comment on the overall performance, but the cadenza has a number of wrong notes, but it's not as hysterical as I imagined! I watch the entire performance later.
















This is morphing into a KB thread!


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## lextune

merlinus said:


> And as for "an objective fact," puleeze! Read my sig!


It IS an objective fact.

If you are sitting there with the score in your hand, and she pounds her way through a diminuendo, or completely re-writes a phrase, she is objectively ignoring the score.


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## merlinus

OK. Maybe she was influenced by Glenn Gould, who did much the same most of the time. Still VERY enjoyable and moving!


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## Pugg

Have this one any day of the week.


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## merlinus

A brilliant performance!!! Thanks very much for the recommendation. It sounded even better on the cd.


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## Vaneyes




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## Guest

I read an amusing interview with Brendel about this Sonata. He said the recording engineer thought the first nearly inaudible note was Brendel accidentally brushing the key, so he cut it out! The mistake was fixed before he issued the recording.

Howard's jab at not ever taking 47 minutes to play this piece must be aimed at Pogorelich from a few years ago! (I think it was closer to 49 minutes...)


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## lextune

Pogorelich's studio recording is 34 minutes, and brilliant. His 49 minute live version from 2012 is bizarre in the extreme, and sort of depressing.

Valery Afanassiev made a studio recording in 2000 for Denon that is 42 minutes. It is unbelievably slow in places. Glacial.

I know of no longer studio recording.


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## Vaneyes

Kontrapunctus said:


> I read an amusing interview with Brendel about this Sonata. He said the recording engineer thought the first nearly inaudible note was Brendel accidentally brushing the key, so he cut it out! The mistake was fixed before he issued the recording.
> 
> *Howard's jab at not ever taking 47 minutes to play this piece must be aimed at Pogorelich from a few years ago! (I think it was closer to 49 minutes...)*


Conversely, Howard failed to mention his version (Hyperion) is 2nd shortest on record, 24:04 (Blumfield, Sonoris 22:57).

Related (pdf):

http://www.pianoenthusiast.com/comparative-surveys-pdf/liszt-sonata.pdf


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## lextune

What an excellent pdf, thanks for the link.


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## lextune

Vaneyes said:


> Conversely, Howard failed to mention his version (Hyperion) is 2nd shortest on record, 24:04


And so bland!

....as I said in the original post, Leslie Howard's version is almost unbearably bland and fast to the point of total failure. It is a shame, since during his incredible traversal of the complete works, he blessed us with so much wonderful Liszt. To quote another reviewer "unfortunately he makes it sound like just another opera transcription".


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## hpowders

lextune said:


> Pogorelich's studio recording is 34 minutes, and brilliant. His 49 minute live version from 2012 is bizarre in the extreme, and sort of depressing.
> 
> Valery Afanassiev made a studio recording in 2000 for Denon that is 42 minutes. It is unbelievably slow in places. Glacial.
> 
> I know of no longer studio recording.


Hough and Buniatishvili both clock in at 31 minutes, practically to the second! She is faster in the virtuosic passages, but more lingering in the poetic passages, so a wash.


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## sbmonty

I am listening to this for the first time. Thanks to all on this thread for awakening me to it. I had coincidentally just received the Paul Lewis cd. I also have a Jorge Bolet recording. I'm in no position to compare but it is an amazingly lovely work. Thanks again.


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## Pugg

lextune said:


> Pogorelich's studio recording is 34 minutes, and brilliant. His 49 minute live version from 2012 is bizarre in the extreme, and sort of depressing.
> 
> Valery Afanassiev made a studio recording in 2000 for Denon that is 42 minutes. It is unbelievably slow in places. Glacial.
> 
> I know of no longer studio recording.


It is perfect in every way.


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## Vaneyes

lextune said:


> And so bland!
> 
> ....as I said in the original post, Leslie Howard's version is almost unbearably bland and fast to the point of total failure. It is a shame, since during his incredible traversal of the complete works, he blessed us with so much wonderful Liszt. To quote another reviewer "unfortunately he makes it sound like just another opera transcription".


I appreciate his scholarship, as I do other pianists', such as Schiff and Rosen.

Though I enjoyed his Liszt Sonata dissection very much, handcuff master-classing is not to be taken too seriously when it comes to buying your vision/version of what sounds right. :tiphat:


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## Michael42

I enjoy Liszt's sonata, it's a magnificent piece


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## Pugg

Michael42 said:


> I enjoy Liszt's sonata, it's a magnificent piece


Who's your favourite pianist on this piece?


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## Guest

Hélène Grimaud
Valentina Lisitsa


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## Guest

Here's a Liszt Sonata played by Pogorelich in 2012 that is over an hour long! Now, I used to love his playing, but I seriously can't defend that. (The video lasts for 93 minutes--he also played a Chopin Nocturne.)


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## merlinus

The sound is very horrible, so I could not listen all the way through, but I appreciated the feelings and emotions he evoked.

I consider his DG recording to be one of the best interpretations of this work.


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## lextune

Wow...an hour?! Cripes. 

...the less said the better I suppose.


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## Guest

I just received this recording of it today by Francois Frederic Guy--very powerful and poetic. Leslie Howard would hate it, so that is a good sign! (It also contains Harmonies Poetiques Et Religieus.)


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## merlinus

I have just completed my auditioning of 13 versions, listening to many of them two or three times. These include Argerich, Arrau, Buniatishvili, Demidenko, Grimaud, Horowitz (from a 2009 Carnegie Hall concert private collection), Hough, Kissin, Pogorelich, Pollini, Richter, Wang, and Zimerman.

Amongst my criteria are depth of feeling along with technique. Zimerman is alone at the top, followed (not necessarily in order) by Arrau, Pogorelich, Kissin (never recorded commercially, so poor sound), Argerich, and Buniatishvili.

The others certainly have something to offer, but too often jaw-dropping technique is at the expense of conveying the feelings and emotions that for me are a vital component of this piece.


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## hpowders

Kontrapunctus said:


> Here you go! I just checked to see that she plays the longer cadenza--she does. Can't comment on the overall performance, but the cadenza has a number of wrong notes, but it's not as hysterical as I imagined! I watch the entire performance later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is morphing into a KB thread!


Wow! I had no idea. Thanks!


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## Pugg

Kontrapunctus said:


> I just received this recording of it today by Francois Frederic Guy--very powerful and poetic. Leslie Howard would hate it, so that is a good sign! (It also contains Harmonies Poetiques Et Religieus.)


You always make me smile.


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## arnerich

I've gotta be honest, I like parts of the piece but most of it is a waste of time.


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## ahinton

arnerich said:


> I've gotta be honest, I like parts of the piece but most of it is a waste of time.


Whose time and why?


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## Pugg

arnerich said:


> I've gotta be honest, I like parts of the piece but most of it is a waste of time.


Based upon????..................


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## lextune

Pugg said:


> Based upon????..................


Musical illiteracy.


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## Pugg

lextune said:


> Musical illiteracy.


Ouch...............


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## ahinton

lextune said:


> Musical illiteracy.


Your own, presumably...


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## Guest

ahinton said:


> Your own, presumably...


I think that illiteracy comment was aimed at *arnerich*...


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## arnerich

It simply may not be my cup of tea. Arguments in favor or against the artistic merits of a composition usually end with cups of tea being served. I'll point out what I consider it's major flaw, too much of the piece feels like padding in order to reach a desired length. It's boring. I think the Chopin ballades say three times more in less than a third of the time. I could understand why Brahms fell asleep during the piece. But again I like parts of the sonata, but most of it is a waste of time. Just my opinion!


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## lextune

Kontrapunctus said:


> I think that illiteracy comment was aimed at *arnerich*...


Correct. Calling the Liszt Sonata a waste of time is a sign of musical illiteracy.


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## arnerich

lextune said:


> Correct. Calling the Liszt Sonata a waste of time is a sign of musical illiteracy.


Speaking of my illiteracy... "sonata" is misspelt in the topic title... just saying :lol:


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## lextune

Yes, my typo, (which the forum does not allow me to correct), is equivalent to you calling "most" of the Liszt Sonata a "waste of time" lol.

Liszt's Sonata is a structural masterpiece. It is as tight as a drum. It is one of the earliest examples of double-function form. Every last note plays a role in holding together the beautiful edifice of it's form. 

You not enjoying the Sonata is one thing, and is merely an opinion. Believing any of it is a "waste" is an objective failure to understand its status as a masterpiece.


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## hpowders

I'm no fan of Liszt, but even I have to acknowledge the Liszt Sonata is one hell of a terrific composition.

I hope Schumann appreciated its greatness.


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## hpowders

Maybe they are talking about 2 different compositions: Liszt's Piano Sonta? Maybe a supplementary work?


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## lextune

ahinton said:


> Your own, presumably...


His. The poster who said Liszt's Sonata was "mostly a waste". Certainly not mine for goodness sake.


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## ahinton

lextune said:


> His. The poster who said Liszt's Sonata was "mostly a waste". Certainly not mine for goodness sake.


.

.

(has to be at least 15 characters, apparently)...


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## Pugg

lextune said:


> Yes, my typo, (which the forum does not allow me to correct), is equivalent to you calling "most" of the Liszt Sonata a "waste of time" lol.
> 
> Liszt's Sonata is a structural masterpiece. It is as tight as a drum. It is one of the earliest examples of double-function form. Every last note plays a role in holding together the beautiful edifice of it's form.
> 
> You not enjoying the Sonata is one thing, and is merely an opinion. Believing any of it is a "waste" is an objective failure to understand its status as a masterpiece.


Ask the moderators and they will help you.
(Their names are under every thread)


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## ahinton

Kontrapunctus said:


> I think that illiteracy comment was aimed at *arnerich*...


Of course it was! My mistake and all due apologies to lextune for my more-haste-less-speed misunderstanding!


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## hpowders

arnerich said:


> Speaking of my illiteracy... "sonata" is misspelt in the topic title... just saying :lol:


Yeah. It's too bad one can't edit mistakes made in thread titles. I'm sure the originator of this thread did try.


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## Pugg

*Geza Anda* - Liszt Sonata in B minor


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## ShropshireMoose

The first recording I ever heard of the B Minor Sonata was the 1932 Horowitz one, which immediately got me hooked, this was 36 years ago, and I've loved the sonata ever since. I wouldn't want to be without that 1932 recording, or the 1976 one, though I know the general consensus is that it's more mannered, but I still find it very exciting, and in places it has a grandeur that I've not heard in any other recording, there's also the unedited live recording from 1976 in the big Sony box of Horowitz's recitals, which is quite different in many respects. 
Another favourite live performance is that by Claudio Arrau on Orfeo, this was given at the Salzburg Festival in 1982, and is absolutely superb, even better, in my opinion, than Arrau's justly famed studio recording on Philips. 
Of the pianists I've heard play the sonata live, three stand out in my mind: Shura Cherkassky (there's a live performance on Decca), who I heard give a blistering account of it in 1995 only a few months before his death. Yevgeny Kissin, who I heard play it in 1998, he really should record it, in fact he should record a lot more Liszt, he is a really splendid Liszt player (try the selection of Transcendental Studies that are coupled with his account of the Schumann Fantasy.) And last, but by no means least, Louis Kentner, who I heard play it at the Queen Elizabeth Hall in 1985 as part of his 80th birthday recital. He had a wonderful grasp of the architecture of the piece and like Kissin, was a supreme Lisztian. APR have recently released his 1948 recording of the sonata, the first time it's been available since it's initial very limited run when it was first released in 1950, it is absolutely wonderful and demands to be heard (it's also coupled with equally fine performances of the Balakirev Piano Sonata and Liapounov Transcendental Studies, so duplicating the Liszt gives you some other very fine piano rarities, in performances of the greatest distinction.)
Then I mustn't forget the pioneering recording by Alfred Cortot, listening to which alone should put paid to any doubting Thomases who still feel that Cortot had insufficient technique. Jorge Bolet is another that I wouldn't want to be without, likewise I've always enjoyed the Argerich recording, though it is a bit breathless and not one I'd want to listen to every day of the week, but to conclude with, another wonderful lady pianist I must make mention of Edith Farnadi. She made a series of recordings of Liszt's piano music for Westminster in the 1950s that are outstanding in every way, and the B Minor Sonata is no exception, everything she does seems intrinsically right, and this *is* a performance that I have returned to again and again and never been disappointed with, it is a tragedy that most of Farnadi's recordings have not been available since the early 1960s, she was a superb pianist and deserves to be far better remembered.


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## silentio

ShropshireMoose said:


> Then I mustn't forget the pioneering recording by* Alfred Cortot*, listening to which alone should put paid to any doubting Thomases who still feel that Cortot had insufficient technique. Jorge Bolet is another that I wouldn't want to be without, likewise I've always enjoyed the Argerich recording, though it is a bit breathless and not one I'd want to listen to every day of the week, but to conclude with, another wonderful lady pianist I must make mention of Edith Farnadi. She made a series of recordings of Liszt's piano music for Westminster in the 1950s that are outstanding in every way, and the B Minor Sonata is no exception, everything she does seems intrinsically right, and this *is* a performance that I have returned to again and again and never been disappointed with, it is a tragedy that most of Farnadi's recordings have not been available since the early 1960s, she was a superb pianist and deserves to be far better remembered.


So happy that you mentioned Cortot, the absolute favorite of mine; he was in really good shape when recording this sonata. I don't want to argue that Cortot technique is transcendental, but he has transcendental technique to best convey his visions (the same for Artur Schnabel). In this B minor sonata, his command of colors and dynamics is amazing.


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## AfterHours

Currently I side with the recent 2013 recording by Alexei Grynyuk, though Arrau's live 70s rendition never leaves my mind. I very strongly recommend Grynyuk's to anyone who hasn't heard it. It is transcendent.


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## Pugg

AfterHours said:


> Currently I side with the recent 2013 recording by Alexei Grynyuk, though Arrau's live 70s rendition never leaves my mind. I very strongly recommend Grynyuk's to anyone who hasn't heard it. It is transcendent.


Do you mean this one:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Orchid+Classics/ORC100031


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## AfterHours

Pugg said:


> Do you mean this one:
> 
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Orchid+Classics/ORC100031


Yeah that's the one. Available on Spotify, and if necessary, YouTube:


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## gardibolt

While I was reading the massive Alan Walker Liszt biography over the winter, I listened to a great many B minor sonatas from a multitude of pianists blind (I didn't check who was playing until the end of each one). One surprising rendition that I found particularly good, especially in rendering the sonata as a cohesive whole, was that from Jenö Jandó on Naxos. He found a way to make the sonata seem organic to me in a way that no one else has. Not particularly brilliant or flashy, but it made a great deal of sense to me. YMMV, but don't dismiss him just because he churns out a lot of material for a budget label.

I like Argerich's first version and Trifonov's quite a lot as well but that ground has already been adequately covered.


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## Xaltotun

One of my favourite pieces. Haven't heard a gazillion interpretations, but Arrau seems clearly the best to me. No one's mentioned Bolet, though?

Oh, and "Liszt's Piano _Sonta_" has a *very* unfortunate meaning in my native language... hope someone changes it.


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