# Gilels Beethoven, best recordings?



## flamencosketches

I have seen a lot of people rank Emil Gilels as a favorite Beethovenian pianist. I love Gilels’ playing generally, but I’ve never been captivated by his Beethoven. What I’ve heard is the Les Adieux, the Waldstein, the Appassionata and concertos with Léopold Ludwig and none of it really connected with me. I’m listening now to his op.90 and I think it’s great. Gilels fans: What are some other highlights of his cycle for you?


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## Josquin13

When Gilels' "Waldstein" sonata was initially released on LP, the old Penquin Guide wrote that it was the finest Waldstein since Artur Schnabel's. It's a favorite of mine. I'm surprised you don't like it. His "Les Adieux" works for me, too.

I agree with you about Gilels' Op. 90 Sonata. Like his Waldstein, it's an analogue recording from the early 1970s, & isn't digital--like most of the rest of Gilels' DG cycle. If I'm not mistaken, it was made around the same time that Gilels recorded his two Brahms Piano Concertos with Eugen Jochum & the Berlin Philharmonic, so he's in vintage form. In my view, Gilels doesn't get the credit he deserves for his playing of the Op 90 sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARoXC9ITIco; nor for his Op. 101, either (see link below).

Do you have the later Gilels/Ludwig EMI release or the original Testament label CD? I have owned both, and recall being disappointed with the sound quality on the 2nd EMI release. It's not very good, so I got rid of the CD. I don't know what EMI did to the sound but it diminished the quality of the performances for me. Which is why I try to link to the Testament CD whenever I recommend that recording (see links below): which I do mostly for the 4th Piano Concerto, and not so much for their 5th, where I prefer other pianists (such as Arrau/Haitink & Fischer/Furtwangler, R. Serkin/Kubelik or Ormandy or Bernstein, Kempff/Van Kampen, & Michelangeli/Giulini). IMO, Gilels has few equals in the 4th, and as a conductor, Ludwig is preferable to Szell, who, for some reason wasn't at his best with Gilels. For me, Szell's rather lacklustre, uninspired conducting on the Cleveland cycle all but ruined an otherwise first rate Beethoven PC set.





https://testament.co.uk/emil-gilels.html
https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Concertos-4-EMIL-GILELS/dp/B000003XJY

There's been much talk over the years that Gilels' Beethoven was better live than in the studio. I think there's a good deal of truth to that, as he gets noticeably freer and more intensely inspired on the concert stage. If you do some side by side comparisons, I think you'll find that Gilels wasn't as careful or circumspect live, as he could be in the studio, and that can be very exciting:

Here are two Beethoven works that Gilels played often in concert & excelled at:

--15 Variations & Fugue, Op. 35 "Eroica": 



--32 Variations: 




I would strongly recommend the following CD: https://www.amazon.com/Emil-Gilels-...ilels+haenssler&qid=1581443982&s=music&sr=1-2

From Gilels' legendary 1969 Carnegie Hall Concert (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZAkCohFDSE):

--"Moonlight" Sonata: 



(Which, interestingly, is a lot slower than his later DG studio recording of the "Moonlight": 



.)

--Live Moscow performances of the "Pathetique" & "Moonlight" Sonatas from 1968, via a Melodiya LP: 




--Piano Sonata no. 28, Op. 101: 









& Gilel's final concert before his untimely death in 1984, given at the Great Hall of the Moscow Conservatory, where he played the Hammerklavier Sonata:






https://www.amazon.com/Emil-Gilels-...scow+beethoven&qid=1581444322&s=music&sr=1-10
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concert-Great-Moscow-Conservatory-26-01-1984/dp/B000T78C18
http://pianistdiscography.com/discography/pianistLabel.php?cdnum=7621&labRich=242&PIANIST=19

Gilels was also remarkable in Beethoven's Piano Sonatas 30 & 31, which were his last studio recordings; yet, I've come to prefer Rudolf Serkin in his "unreleased" Sony recordings of nos. 30 & 31 (as well as Youra Guller & Solomon).

No. 30: 



No. 31: 




R. Serkin: no. 31: 



Guller: no. 31: 




The Serkin boxed set: https://www.amazon.com/Serkin-Unrel...unreleased+sony&qid=1581443854&s=music&sr=1-1
--The 'heart' of the boxed set--nos. 30, 31, & 32, released individually: https://www.amazon.com/Serkin-Unrel...ed+sony&qid=1581443854&s=music&sr=1-1-catcorr


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## flamencosketches

^Thanks for the informative post. Interesting that you mention the Penguin Guide comment comparing the Gilels Waldstein with the Schnabel. It's been some time since I've heard that Gilels Waldstein I mentioned, but at the time I remember thinking of how much better I thought the Schnabel was. Schnabel's recording had so much more verve, better pacing, etc., that the Gilels sounded clunky in comparison. It's one of the highlights of the great Schnabel set. I think I need to return to the Gilels now that the Schnabel recording is far from the forefront of my mind. 

As for the Gilels/Ludwig, I don't have it, but what I heard was a rip, I want to say of the Testament edition, but I could be wrong. Anyway I remember being struck by the bad sound. I remember being likewise unimpressed with the Szell set, which is a shame as I love Gilels, Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra all about equally. Perhaps you're right. 

Anyway your post may have led me in the right direction: perhaps it is the live recordings I'm looking for. I'll try and pick up that SWR recording on Hänssler, which appears to be pretty cheap. Looks like a great program. If I see a used copy of the disc with the Waldstein/Appassionata/Adieux I'll have to pick it up and give it another shot. It appears the full cycle is not in the cards, for now. 

Speaking of, what do you think of the full cycle? Is it one of the great Beethoven sonatas cycles, according to you, or not? 

PS. Thanks for the Serkin recs, I'll try and check this out too. 

PPS. I listened to some of the Kempff prewar recordings of the late Beethoven sonatas, on Apple music. I believe you have recommended these to me in the past. Anyway, very good stuff.


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## bz3

The primary tragedy is that there isn't a full cycle of Gilels in the Beethoven sonatas, the 32nd being the most glaring omission. Though there are other pianists I prefer in late Beethoven (Brendel's for one, Pollini for more of a thrill, and Kempff). The Gilels Waldstein is my favorite recorded interpretation of the sonata, so already I differ from OP there.

If I could have one cycle it would probably be Kempff, but Gilels's would be in the running along with Brendel's if Gilels's were complete.


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## bharbeke

For Gilels, my favorite Beethoven sonatas of his were No. 18 and 19. Not only are they his best, but I think he played them better than anyone else.

You may hear things differently, however, as I thought his recordings of the concertos with Szell of 1, 2, and 5 sounded great.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Gilels is definitely one of my top 5 pianists, maybe even top 2 along with Richter. His Beethoven cycle is by far my favorite alongside Annie Fischer. No pianist I know has such a flexible touch and tonal palette, coupled with depth of interpretation. I think his cycle is very consistent- can't really point out a specific one that stands above the others. The Hammerklavier is certainly impressive, no small part due to his unmatched power and agility. He also brings a lot of the lesser-known early/middle sonatas to life for me. It may be heresy to say, but I'm not as big on Beethoven's piano sonatas as most. An incredible body of work, no doubt, but not, IMO, of uniformly consistent quality or interest to me. I like guys like Gilels (and even Gould) who bring an element of daring and imagination to each sonata to liven up what I often hear as bland music. This is where Kempff and Arrau fail in Beethoven for me- things end up sounding the same and there is a lack of narrative.


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## Triplets

bharbeke said:


> For Gilels, my favorite Beethoven sonatas of his were No. 18 and 19. Not only are they his best, but I think he played them better than anyone else.
> 
> You may hear things differently, however, as I thought his recordings of the concertos with Szell of 1, 2, and 5 sounded great.


I really dislike those Szell recordings. It sounds like a major interpretive mismatch


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## Allegro Con Brio

The 4th and 5th concerti with Leopold Ludwig are brilliant- possibly my favorite version of the 4th.


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## starthrower

The Gilels Waldstein from that DG disc is my favorite as well. There are several Appassionatas I enjoy including Gilels, Richter, Lortie, O'Conor. I love my Lortie cycle.


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## DavidA

I have a disc with the Appassionata, Pathetique and no 31. Must confess disappointed at first hearing but will listen again after hearing above comments.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I listened to some of his Beethoven today to reassess. Just as amazing as ever. He makes even the warhorse sonatas sound brand new- just listen to the finale of the Moonlight! Intrepid, personal, and sumptuous playing. I can tell that some recordings don’t capture him in his technical prime, though. I must have been thinking of someone else when I praised his Hammerklavier, because he chooses some very stately tempi that sort of detract from it. But just listen to some of the textures he creates- the rondo of the Waldstein! How sublime! Playing that makes you want to melt into it and never come out.


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## Richard di Calatrava

Triplets said:


> I really dislike those Szell recordings. It sounds like a major interpretive mismatch


For the Piano Concertos, I would definitely stick with the famous Leon Fleisher/Szell/Cleveland set. It's one of the all-time classic greats (for every Concerto) and very, very satisfying. Fleisher and Szell seem to gel brilliantly.

There is a separate-3 disc reissue permutation with the Triple Concerto (Ormandy) as fillup, which can be picked up pretty cheaply on Amazon or ebay. However, in the set I have linked below, you get the Mozart 25th AND both Brahms Concertos (no Triple)...what a bargain!:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fleisher-p...thoven+fleisher&qid=1627913676&s=music&sr=1-1


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## Manxfeeder

Richard di Calatrava said:


> For the Piano Concertos, I would definitely stick with the famous Leon Fleisher/Szell/Cleveland set. It's one of the all-time classic greats (for every Concerto) and very, very satisfying. Fleisher and Szell seem to gel brilliantly.
> 
> There is a separate-3 disc reissue permutation with the Triple Concerto (Ormandy) as fillup, which can be picked up pretty cheaply on Amazon or ebay. However, in the set I have linked below, you get the Mozart 25th AND both Brahms Concertos (no Triple)...what a bargain!:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fleisher-p...thoven+fleisher&qid=1627913676&s=music&sr=1-1


The Brahms and Beethoven cycle are also included in this 10-CD set for a ridiculously low price right now. Plus they throw in another album as a digital download.

https://www.classicselectworld.com/products/original-albums-fleisher-leon?_pos=1&_sid=c53b64510&_ss=r


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## Kreisler jr

I am not too fond of the studio Waldstein and Appassionata, they are both too slow and controlled. Brilliant had a set with live recordings of a bunch of sonatas that were usually more lively but not as perfect as the studio, not sure how easy to find this now.

Of the DG set my favorites are probably

op.2,2+3 despite #2 being a bit too slow and weighty for the piece
op.10,3 (the op.10,1 is marred by a very slow first movement)
op.28 despite slow (but I could say this to almost all of them)
op. 31, 2+3, which are not slow for a change
op.35 "Eroica variations"
op.81a
op.106 "granitic", very slow in the first movement, though
op.109
op.110 all of these broad but very poetic


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## Animal the Drummer

I've heard better "Appassionatas" (though not many) but I have to disagree about Gilels' recording of the "Waldstein", the one Beethoven sonata recording above all others that I'd take to a desert island.


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## Kreisler jr

The studio Waldstein is completely lacking brio in the first movement. This should be an uberbrilliant mercurial piece, the first motive like a flash of lightning etc. this concerns ot only but also sheer speed. I am not hearing this with Gilels which certainly has other qualities but not these that are decisive for me. But I admittedly don't much care for the piece anyway  I mostly like the beginning of the finale. Even there Gilels is a bit too slow.
Overall I think that with a few exceptions Gilels is best in the lyrical and "monumental/powerful" works but often lacking in humour and a certain mercurial quality that is needed in many of the sonatas (admittedly, Arrau can be worse, I think I liked his Waldstein from the 1960s Philips even less). E.g. op.31/1 is also lacking in humour and while I love the lyrical first movement of his op.14/2 he plays the 2nd movement at half tempo... 
Some still work very well in his weighty approach but I am not convinced by Appassionata and Waldstein; maybe I should dig up and try the live ones on Brilliant Classics.


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## staxomega

I find Gilels' best Beethoven Piano Sonata recordings were the ones he made live, there are some phenomenal performances on Melodiya. Like his 1985 Hammerklavier outside of two really obvious bum notes is so much more angular and searching compared to the DG. The DG recordings in general sound too measured. I'm sure I'd have liked them more if they were the recordings I heard early on in my Beethoven exploring, ie the good memories I have attached to Arrau's 1960s Philips cycle even though I don't play it often these days.



Kreisler jr said:


> The studio Waldstein is completely lacking brio in the first movement. This should be an uberbrilliant mercurial piece, the first motive like a flash of lightning etc. this concerns ot only but also sheer speed. I am not hearing this with Gilels which certainly has other qualities but not these that are decisive for me. But I admittedly don't much care for the piece anyway  I mostly like the beginning of the finale. Even there Gilels is a bit too slow.


Agreed, if you want to hear just how radically polar opposites in the Waldstein listen to Gilels' DG and Josef Hofmann's 1939 Casmir recording. Like chalk and cheese in terms of approach. Rudolf Serkin's early 50s Columbia recording also has that brio ala Hofmann.


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## Kreisler jr

Do you know if the (live) dates on the Brilliant Classic Gilels are (mostly?) correct? (They have been know to be quite sloppy with information on other Russian (live) recordings)

op.57 Jan 1961
op.13 Dec 1968
op.27/2 Dec 1970
op.26 and op.31/1 1976
opp. 10/3, 79, 81a, 90 Oct 1980
op.106 1984


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## joen_cph

Kreisler jr said:


> Do you know if the (live) dates on the Brilliant Classic Gilels are (mostly?) correct? (They have been know to be quite sloppy with information on other Russian (live) recordings)
> 
> *op.57 Jan 1961*
> op.13 Dec 1968
> op.27/2 Dec 1970
> op.26 and op.31/1 1976
> opp. 10/3, 79, 81a, 90 Oct 1980
> op.106 1984


No matter what, that _Appassionata_ shouldn't be missed, it's probably the most electrifying on record and also with less errors than the famous various early Richters (Carnegie Hall, Kiev etc.).


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