# Does music make you a better person?



## Isola (Mar 26, 2008)

Just curious. We are talking about classical music of course. If yes, in which sense? If no, why?


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow. Sometimes the deepest questions are the succinct ones. I'm afraid I can't formulate a succinct answer.

I couldn't live without music, so in that sense it makes me a person. Does it make me a better person? Yes and no.

In many ways classical music walls me off from much of my surrounding culture so I am viewed as some sort of unapproachable intellectual by my peers when this is simply not the case. That is probably my personality causing that, not the music. The music I enjoy is just a manifestation of my personality.

It may be facile to say I don't judge others based on their listening habits. I'd like to think I don't, but when I hear of someone liking the latest pop diva or boy model group I have to wonder if it has anything to do with music or just marketing. Does this person also like fast food? Does the person laugh at sitcoms because the laugh track tells them too?

All these judgemental thoughts simmer beneath the surface and then I get down and a little lonely because I feel surrounded by the utterly mundane. Life has GOT to be about more than getting up, going to work, coming home, watching TV, doing the same over again the next day, and raising two and half kids to grow up and do the exact same thing.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then creativity is the sincerest form of worship. I believe it is our sacred duty to _strive_ to be creative (even if we have no creative bones in our bodies) and to share that creativity with others and to be vessels for others creativity -- in my case in the form of appreciating the arts.

Most of the world, at least my world, is not folllowing this Purpose and by the application of peer pressure and job pressure, tries to keep me from following it too, often all too successfully I'm afraid.


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Weston said:


> Life has GOT to be about more than getting up, going to work, coming home, watching TV, doing the same over again the next day, and raising two and half kids to grow up and do the exact same thing.


I definitely 2nd that opinion and I wish more people would realise just that. A lot of people say "I don't have time" whereas in reality they do have time but they are trapped in their habit of coming back home and turning the tv on.


----------



## Contrapunctus666 (Mar 22, 2009)

Metal music has made me a better person. Classical didn't do anything because metal has said all I ever needed to know.


----------



## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Since I don't listen to music as some kind of vulgar self-help therapy or agitprop, I can only say that it has brought me closer to the noumenon.


----------



## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Contrapunctus666 said:


> Metal music has made me a better person. Classical didn't do anything because metal has said all I ever needed to know.


... why even be here


----------



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

It did. By giving me goals - before I really fell in love with music, which happened quite lately, I was careless guy. I didn't care about future, I quit school, bla-bla-bla. Music made things diffrent. Although it's very late, and I have lost a lot of chances, I have great determination to achive something on the field of musical arts. As much as it's possible. This is probably the most important thing in life - to have aspirations, desire of achiving something and passion which gives your life sense. This is what music gave to me, so yes, I belive that it made me better person.

Also, music helped me to deal with my roots. If you know what I mean.


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Weston said:


> It may be facile to say I don't judge others based on their listening habits. I'd like to think I don't, but when I hear of someone liking the latest pop diva or boy model group I have to wonder if it has anything to do with music or just marketing.


It has to do with the music. If it was only the marketing they could apply that to good looking classical musicians as well and they would sell millions of cd's too. Marketing may influence exactly which pop diva or boys band those people are exposed to the most, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they really like pop music.


----------



## LvB (Nov 21, 2008)

I would argue that no art, music included, _makes_ anyone a better person (otherwise, for example the Germans, who had a rich tradition of music and art, could never have supported Naziism so strongly). What it _can_ do (not _must_ do) is help a person become more attentive to details of thought and feeling, which is a vital component of the moral imagination which allows us to interact more deeply and empathetically with others. This is not to say that one must be musically or artistically literate to be a moral or good person; moral imagination neither requires nor entails artistic imagination. But I do believe that genuine attentiveness to the intellectual and emotional content of good art/music/literature, etc., can help create the mental space within which we can develop our goodness. The richer the content, the greater the potential effect. (It's worth noting that there are studies which suggest that early exposure to artistic complexity does expand the later capabilities of the brain). But the choice is ours; we can deaden our receptivity to both art and to other people, or we can develop them. Nothing in any art form can overwhelm this automatically or without our cooperation.


----------



## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

LvB said:


> I would argue that no art, music included, _makes_ anyone a better person (otherwise, for example the Germans, who had a rich tradition of music and art, could never have supported Naziism so strongly). What it _can_ do (not _must_ do) is help a person become more attentive to details of thought and feeling, which is a vital component of the moral imagination which allows us to interact more deeply and empathetically with others. This is not to say that one must be musically or artistically literate to be a moral or good person; moral imagination neither requires nor entails artistic imagination. But I do believe that genuine attentiveness to the intellectual and emotional content of good art/music/literature, etc., can help create the mental space within which we can develop our goodness. The richer the content, the greater the potential effect. (It's worth noting that there are studies which suggest that early exposure to artistic complexity does expand the later capabilities of the brain). But the choice is ours; we can deaden our receptivity to both art and to other people, or we can develop them. Nothing in any art form can overwhelm this automatically or without our cooperation.


This is a cracking post.


----------



## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Contrapunctus666 said:


> Metal music has made me a better person. Classical didn't do anything because metal has said all I ever needed to know.


Are you even a classical fan? Ladies and gentlemen I smell an Internet troll.


----------



## R-F (Feb 12, 2008)

Herzeleide said:


> This is a cracking post.


I whole-heartedly agree!


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

LvB said:


> I would argue that no art, music included, _makes_ anyone a better person (otherwise, for example the Germans, who had a rich tradition of music and art, could never have supported Naziism so strongly). What it _can_ do (not _must_ do) is help a person become more attentive to details of thought and feeling, which is a vital component of the moral imagination which allows us to interact more deeply and empathetically with others. This is not to say that one must be musically or artistically literate to be a moral or good person; moral imagination neither requires nor entails artistic imagination. But I do believe that genuine attentiveness to the intellectual and emotional content of good art/music/literature, etc., can help create the mental space within which we can develop our goodness. The richer the content, the greater the potential effect. (It's worth noting that there are studies which suggest that early exposure to artistic complexity does expand the later capabilities of the brain). But the choice is ours; we can deaden our receptivity to both art and to other people, or we can develop them. Nothing in any art form can overwhelm this automatically or without our cooperation.


Marvellous post. Thank you.

This recognition of the moral dimension that may or may not be associated with art is so important that Ruskin distinguished between them by defining two different words (derived from Aristotle, I think - there's nothing new under the sun): the _aesthetic,_ to describe the purely sensual pleasure of art; and the _theoretic_, which includes the moral or spiritual dimension - that is, the theoretic includes responses such as gratitude, admiration, and joy. I've always found this to be a very useful rough tool of thought, and if music is to help us to become 'better people', it's through the theoretic appreciation of it, rather than the merely aesthetic. In effect, my sensual pleasure in music is unlikely to lead to anything likely to be of benefit to anyone but me; but my feelings of gratitude and admiration may.

There's another aspect, though - one expressed by CS Lewis when he wrote about the effect of reading great literature (though his words can be applied to any art, including music):

_Literary experience heals the wound, without undermining the privilege, of individuality. In reading great literature I become a thousand men and yet remain myself. Like the night sky in the Greek poem, I see with a myriad eyes, but it is still I who see. Here, I transcend myself; and am never more myself than when I do._

Let's rewrite that:

_Musical experience heals the wound, without undermining the privilege, of individuality. In listening to great music I become a thousand men and yet remain myself. Like the night sky in the Greek poem, I see with a myriad eyes, but it is still I who see. Here, I transcend myself; and am never more myself than when I do._

This has always been the abiding value of all the arts, for me. It's the opening of windows, the gaining of fresh perspectives, insights, understandings. That enhancement, that widening, of experience doesn't necessarily make me (or anyone else) a better person - but it has the potential to do so. Solzhenitzyn has Ivan Denisovich ask: 'How can a man who's warm understand a man who's cold?'. The arts provide a means through which he can.


----------



## Isola (Mar 26, 2008)

Some excellent posts there. I couldn't have said better than you guys. Thanks!


----------



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Contrapunctus666 said:


> Metal music has made me a better person. Classical didn't do anything because metal has said all I ever needed to know.


To quote private investigator Jake Gittes, "Who is this bimbo?"


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I don't think that any art makes one a better person, only more interesting and informed. I think it is experience of life generally, in particular having contact with other people's points of view & experiences, that makes you a better person. Maybe art helps us do this, to a degree, but it can also be used to justify the reverse, like what the poster above said about the fact that Germany had a rich musical culture, but that didn't stop Hitler from taking over. Ditto Stalin's Russia & probably Mao's China, too.


----------



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

As for me personally, I think music makes me a better person. I have moments of stupidity that are thankfully not in sharp relief on the internet, but I still think I'm better off than I would be without music so prominently in my life. Music makes it so much easier for me to overlook small differences and enjoy the whole of humanity.


----------



## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

I will say that music has been my number one passion my entire life. It has been there for me when I was down and out. It's been there when I needed it. It doesn't make me a better person by any means. It makes my existence more tolerable and interesting. Day to day life is hard enough on anyone, but I'm thankful and grateful I have been blessed with the ability to hear it.


----------



## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Absolutely and positively!

Jim


----------



## marval (Oct 29, 2007)

I can't say that music has made me a better person. Music in my opinion doesn't make you who you are, what I think it does is accompany you in life. For instance the music you listen to can be determined by what you are doing at that time, and the mood you are in. I think listening to classical music has made me a calmer person, I can listen to classical music and appreciate everything around me. I will always be grateful to my parents for letting me grow up with decent music.


----------



## Edward Elgar (Mar 22, 2006)

Music keeps me sane, but I'm not a better person because of it. The only way people can better themselves in an ethical sense is to improve their interactions with other people, which music can facilitate via concerts, orchestras or just being brought together by a common interest. That's my own subjective experience anyway. So you could say that music has given me various opertunities to better myself.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Isola said:


> *Does* [Classical] *music makes you a better person?*


I'd LIKE to think that _every_ interest that I pursue enthusiastically makes me a better person. However, I have to consider two possibilities-

1) I might be kidding myself with what I'd _like_ to think.
2) I have the world's least objective perspective when commenting on myself.

A less-loaded way of phrasing this would be placing it in third-party perspective... does Classical music make people better persons? Even if we were to try answering that question here, we have to remember that we're answering it in the context of a _Classical music_ forum, and that some lack-of-objectivity challenges still remain.

Imagine what the response would be if we were on a Rock/Pop, Hip-Hop or even Country Music board, and even broached the topic that there was a chance that Classical music makes us better people... we'd probably get an earful about how snobby, elitist, and full of ourselves we were!


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Imagine what the response would be if we were on a Rock/Pop, Hip-Hop or even Country Music board, and even broached the topic that there was a chance that Classical music makes us better people... we'd probably get an earful about how snobby, elitist, and full of ourselves we were!


....and they would be right.  Listening to classical music doesn't make us better people, just like listening to rock, playing soccer or going to the movies don't make us better people either.


----------



## Bgroovy2 (Mar 27, 2009)

This is a great post!

Elgarian 

I am glad to see that you mentioned the spiritual side of music! In our contempory time of spiritual apathy and worship of matrial goods, music is a way to touch the entangible. To transend my lowly surcumstances. The human race lusts after power, power to persuade and control but what is power? Power is the spoken word that has the ability to heal or harm. Power is the beautiful music the praises the creator and uplifts my dampened spirit. Power is also the song of hate that controls the masses and causes division. Power is the song that tells me that my life is worthless and what would really happen if you take it right now?

All music is ministry and all musicians are ministers. The question is, how will you use the awesome gift that has been given to you? Will you seek to encourage or destroy all in your path. Most musicians in the pop field do not know or realize how they are being used. They have sold their soul to destroy the masses for their daily bread and remain clueless to the fact.

Can music make me a better person? It has the ability! It also has the ability to do the exact opposite.


----------



## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

People need pastimes and forms of amusement to keep them happy. Imagine what life would like for someone who found himself/herself cut off from all forms of activity that were previously taken for granted. Now offer that person the restoration of their single favourite activity from a list of possibles which could include access to music, reading, watching tv, chatting to others, etc. Different people will make different choices. Whatever choice they make, the restored ability to partake of that pleasure would surely make that person feel a lot better in himself/herself, and could possibly have the effect of making for a "better person" as perceived by others (more friendly, less aggressive, less morose, etc). 

If that offer of restored privileges were later extended to the person's second and then third favourite activity etc, the marginal benefit at each stage would probably decline. There may come a point when access to an additional facility has no added benefit, and hence does not make that person feel any better overall or make that person appear to be a better person to others. For some people music may be so low down their priorities that it has little or no effect on their general outlook. I strongly suspect that if my access to classical music were to be cut off, or seriously restricted, it would definitely make me less happy, and I think this would undoubtedly impact adversely on the perception others would have of me.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

I was thinking a bit more about this question, and found myself wondering whether music can make you a better person only if you're the kind of person who can be made better by listening to music. Music is in an elevated position because it's an art form - that is, it's a kind of window through which new perceptions and insights can be glimpsed, but it's also a source of sensual pleasure. It's possible to choose one, and not both - that is, it's possible to choose just the pleasure, without accepting or perhaps even acknowledging the spiritual/moral dimension.

If I choose just to listen for the pleasure's sake, then it's hard to see how that could make me a better person (any more than eating cake would). But if I listen for the insight - those glimpses through the magic casements that Vaughan Williams talks about - then it becomes possible to grow - to become more (imaginatively and spiritually) than I am right now; and with the right kind of growth, I might, conceivably, become a better person. I'm not saying it will happen; I'm just suggesting the potential. I think the person listening to Britney on her headphones while calling to check on an old, invalid neighbour is probably in a higher state of grace than I am, sitting at home listening to Mozart's _Requiem_, lost in my obliviousness.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Artemis said:


> I strongly suspect that if my access to classical music were to be cut off, or seriously restricted, it would definitely make me less happy, and I think this would undoubtedly impact adversely on the perception others would have of me.


This is a really interesting point... and it speaks to something I had reflected on after my previous post... and that is that these activities might not make me a better person as much as they help keep me from being a worse person!

It's a truism of American Baseball that good managing doesn't necessarily win you more games, but bad managing can lose you more than a few games. Maybe something like that happens with Art. Embracing great Art doesn't ennoble a person to quite the degree that embracing (*much*) less than great Art debases a person...


----------



## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> Embracing great Art doesn't ennoble a person to quite the degree that embracing (*much*) less than great Art debases a person...


Do I have permission to use this quote?


----------



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

To echo the comments many have already made in this thread:

My life is better because of music, but because my life is better doesn't mean I am better. I still have shortcomings like any person, and no matter how many times I listen to Beethoven's 9th, I still bite my nails and put off doing the laundry.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Tapkaara said:


> no matter how many times I listen to Beethoven's 9th, I still bite my nails and put off doing the laundry.


You could try Handel's Water Music for the laundry problem.


----------



## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Elgarian said:


> You could try Handel's Water Music for the laundry problem.


LOL! Obviously!


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

This is a cracking post.


----------

