# Piano composition by hannah martin. Feedback please?



## hannahmartin

Hi everyone,

I have recently started writing music, this is my very first piece. Although I have written more since then, this is the only one i've been able to record.

please could you tell me what you think?

What were the bits you liked?

How do you think I can improve? Be honest, I'm an actor so I can handle it!

Thanks guys  here is the link:


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## Mahlerian

Well, I'm sure you realize that what you're writing is not classical music, so I don't have to go on a spiel about that.

That said, as New Age goes (a genre I generally despise), it's better than some notably popular examples, but _any_ kind of music can benefit from the following:

In terms of harmony and rhythm especially, less repetition. Listening to something like this gives me the impression of someone who thinks she's saying something new, but keeps reiterating the same points.

More of a sense of form. We have something like "theme" - episode 1 - episode 2 - 15 second tag, and with the simplicity of the music, there's no reason why the middle two sections couldn't be reversed. This is a bad sign. Western music of any kind usually progresses linearly.

In spite of the repetition, the genre of New Age ensures that there's nothing particularly memorable about it. I have an impression of "pretty sound - another pretty sound - another pretty sound", and I think you would do well to develop the music in some way.

If you want to write music that is pretty, you've discovered how, but if you want to write music that's stunningly beautiful, you're going to have to develop more technique. Look at music by Chopin and Debussy; their music is inherently tied to the sound of the piano, and even when not particularly virtuosic, it could be quite complex in terms of harmony and development.


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## hannahmartin

Thanks for your comments, I will take them all on board with the next pieces. Reading your comments I can completely see where I went down the wrong track so I know not to make the same mistakes. Thanks  I have played many many many pieces my chopin and debussy, and I realize that I do need to pay much more attention to the progression in their music in terms of harmony and development. So I shall do that!


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## clavichorder

It sounds like you have a good ear and solid ease of creative flow if this is your first piece.

Improvement, if you want to impress the classical sensibilities more, the harmonic progressions will have to move a little more unpredictably or else formulaically(one way or the other, or more strongly tempered both directions?). Its hard to explain and perhaps it won't interest you to write music like that. 

Maybe try listening to some classical era like Beethoven bagatelles or Mozart sonatas. And maybe some Bartok Romanian folk dances. This type of stuff is easily appealing music that has a studied intricacy.

And if you like Debussy and Chopin, check out some of their less known works that are still manageable to play. Eric Satie is great, as is Anatoly Liadov.

I feel I want to give a more detailed comment, so I will in a bit.


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## hannahmartin

Thanks for your feedback, I will also take on those wonderful comments. I understand that I need to be more unpredictable with my harmonica progressions, I am learning about that as I go along and try different things. I will look up on some classical music, i realize now that I need to do that more often! Thanks again for your interest and feedback, everything you said has been taken on board. I look forward to this detailed comment


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## hannahmartin

Harmonic*. wrote that reply in a bit of a rush, sorry for the typos!


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## Jord

Like what Mahlerian said it isn't classical, so you might be looking for advice from the wrong place, but then again classical music in my opinion is the greatest genre for composition
but anyway i think there is some good ideas in your piece, especially towards the end, my criticisms are that this piece doesn't sound like a piece of music, it sounds like a handful of ideas you've written one after another, even though they flow into each other there's no structure


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## hannahmartin

I am very aware it isn't classical, and I have posted it on many other websites and forums, but I wanted to get well-rounded feedback from all angles. I myself have studied classical music and have been playing classical music from a very young age so I do understand now where I have gone wrong, I just needed to be told that from somebody else for me to see it  Thank you for your interest and comment, have taken everything on board. I know what you mean, there isn't any link between the three themes, I almost feel they could be three separate pieces if I concentrated on developing each theme separately. Once again, thank you, your comments are very appreciated


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## StevenOBrien

I'm being very nitpicky here, but in terms of the recording, I'd perhaps recommend looking into buying better piano samples if you can. Perhaps something from Imperfect Samples or Acousticsamples.

Apart from that, I don't really have anything to recommend, I think it mostly sounds just fine as it is. The only thing I really feel is wrong with it is that it probably ends too soon and therefore it feels slightly unbalanced as a result. I'm really not sure why, but the ending just feels unsatisfying to me, like there's meant to be more to it. Perhaps a nice full pianissimo C minor chord an octave lower just at the end to make everything feel grounded and final?

Apart from that, excellent work, I really enjoyed it!


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## hannahmartin

Thanks for your comment, I recorded it live from my mums rather old digital Yamaha piano haha, but I will look into your suggestions thanks!

You have a very good point, perhaps that's the problem with it, I think I will write a longer version and I will develop the ending as well. 

Thanks for the feedback, its been really useful


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## Ramako

I think what you have to (perhaps already do?) understand is that you've gone above a particular bar of quality which means you're going to get more criticism but that's good because you've already hit that level of quality.

I really like it and for a first piece I think it's exceptional.



Mahlerian said:


> If you want to write music that is pretty, you've discovered how, but if you want to write music that's stunningly beautiful, you're going to have to develop more technique.


I think this is the crucial point. What you've done is good, but you can go on to better. I think that pigeon-holing things into classical and so on doesn't always help, but like Mahlerian says _any_ kind of piece can benefit from good structure etc.

I think you've got a good developing-variation thing going on whether you conscious of it or not, but I think that it could be pulled together more tightly. In a sense, the ideas which sound different aren't different enough, or rather aren't given sufficient emphasis for my tastes. Therefore you get the problem of 'saminess' which Mahlerian accuses you of, but also of being 'disconnected' that Jord accuses you of. These aren't quite as paradoxical as they may seem. I also think it could benefit from a more architectural approach with more back-references and so on throughout. Perhaps you have no idea what I'm talking about - to be honest I'm not sure I do! Just thoughts banging round my head.


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## hannahmartin

Thanks Ramako, that first paragraph made me smile. I haven't been told that yet, but even so, I take all criticism as a good thing because unless someone is telling me its rubbish (and so far nobody has yet) it is all constructive and said because they care. 

Your making complete sense to me so don't worry, I understand what your talking about. After reading your comment, I have been going through my hand-written score with a pencil this morning and seeing where and how I can give the piece structure and put in a back reference through each of the variations it passes. It will take some time but I think I can do it. 

Thanks again for all your help, its very much appreciated and means a lot.


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## PetrB

Most relevant structural comments have already been made. You are very musical, and your 'ear' for that is already showing in this new-age piece. You play well enough, but I would urge you, though it is a great expense, to get a very full and quality dedicated piano sample (there are a number of them: Steinway, Bosendorfer, or other fine contemporary and vintage grand pianos) a CD which gets loaded to the computer, and plays via midi. The lesser quality samples, though in wide circulation, are detrimental to anyone's presentation.

Here, some classical pieces, and others, for you to check for how / what others have done.
Debussy ~ Des pas sur la neige (preludes book I, no. 6.) Monothematic, with no real 'tune', there is a unity, and a sense of continuity.
Monique Haas




Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli





John Adams ~ China Gates. A 'pedal point piece,' with slightly changing rhythmic patterns. This has the static quality akin to much new-age music.





Nils Frahm ~ Tristana. -- more directly within the genre you seem interested in. There are other instruments, which add color, but the entire pitch-load is mostly in the piano, the other instruments more an added texture. Not similar in that there is more 'motion to the configuration, while the harmony is nearly as static as that in your piece.









Ólafur Arnalds ~ _from Living Room Songs_ Here, piano 'and' strings, in one or two numbers, some electronica. Often the strings are doubling, filling out the piano harmony while the piano is in a more 'pianistic' configuration. {With simple and static music as this genre is, and expects, the addition of another instrumental color can make a world of difference as to holding the interest, the ear's attention. Note, too, the living room songs are all brief in length.
Though again, it is almost entirely harmonic, not a melody in sight, Arnolds is not at all hesitant to make / have a larger gesture' in the piece, a wider intervallic leap, etc.
Tomorrow's Song




Fyrsta.





Many of the shorter pieces in this genre are a simple continuum of one idea, run between three to four minutes. Others, commonly, are in the basic format of ABA (nothing wrong with that, it is readily followed by all: almost all the Chopin nocturnes take this form.)

I don't know if there is anything more crazy about trying to compose within a genre with such limited harmonic parameters where even the best works are near virtually interchangeable with another person's works (and meant, really, to 'not be noticed') vs. trying to make any kind of success out of composing new classical pieces with a more individual and unique voice. Either, even if 'the best' is a very long shot.

You would not have to diverge very far at all from the expectations of new-age before it would no longer be 'within the genre' and, since it is pop music, that would be almost automatically a new sub-genre, which leaves you either better off ('distinguished') or worse (no longer new-age) insofar as the marketing of either.

I think it is generally proven that the outstanding work in any genre has some sort of unique 'edge' compared to the rest. (Most classical fans find even the best of 'new-age' vapid, with little or nothing to really command attention.) I would not, at this initial stage, try too directly to keep it in that narrow channel.

Keep a sketchbook of ideas, even fragments, to mine and refer to. Some will end up in the garbage, others may surprise you, a year or more later, as 'opening up' into becoming a piece or part of a piece.


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## hannahmartin

Thanks for your comments PetrB. Much appreciated. I do wish, at some point, to record it live again but this time from my mothers upright piano, which plays beautifully. It's just finding someone who would be willing to hire me the equipment, I have people I can ask, so hopefully I can do that sooner than later. 

As for the pieces you have suggested I look at, thanks so much for such an interest, and I will spend today listening to each of those. I do Love china gates by John Adams, the piece is one of the reasons I got into composing, I have a lot to learn from his pieces. 

I have also taken on board everything else you have said. I will try to be more open minded when composing and to not "categorize" myself like I have with this first one. 

Once again, thanks for the inspiration


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## Mesa

No other comments than this is significantly better than most 'new age piano' style pieces in stock music banks. If the acting business isn't all it's cracked up to be, you should be sorted!


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## hannahmartin

Aw thanks man!


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## ricardo_jvc6

StevenOBrien said:


> I'm being very nitpicky here, but in terms of the recording, I'd perhaps recommend looking into buying better piano samples if you can. Perhaps something from Imperfect Samples or Acousticsamples.
> 
> Apart from that, I don't really have anything to recommend, I think it mostly sounds just fine as it is. The only thing I really feel is wrong with it is that it probably ends too soon and therefore it feels slightly unbalanced as a result. I'm really not sure why, but the ending just feels unsatisfying to me, like there's meant to be more to it. Perhaps a nice full pianissimo C minor chord an octave lower just at the end to make everything feel grounded and final?
> 
> Apart from that, excellent work, I really enjoyed it!


I'd say VSL has the best piano samples ever recorded, in my opinion.


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## Jord

The greatest compliments are those from other musicians/composers, for reasons such as this 



 One of my favourite films, but anyway.



hannahmartin said:


> I have been going through my hand-written score with a pencil this morning and seeing where and how I can give the piece structure and put in a back reference through each of the variations it passes.


If you have no interest in my view how to structure things then don't read the rest of this.

with a piece like this i think a structure that has quite a lot of repetition of one idea now and again is needed, kind of like a chorus in pop music, something that when people hear they recognise from hearing it before, and because of the piece being so peaceful it would seem kind of like a feeling of tranquility, especially if you used that part that starts at about 1:35 as Section B, and the part that starts about 1:15 as Section A, and had A B A, you'd start with tranquility, then B comes in, contrasts with A and is the distortion of peace, then A comes back in, people recognise it from the beginning and is a sort of resolution to section B.

The majority of people like repetition in music, a melody or progression heard over and over again, that's why pop music works so well i guess, but don't over do it like Minimalism, that just gets boring, also remember you don't have to cram everything you've written into one piece.


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## hannahmartin

That is so true, I've never thought of it that way before. Its a great film too.

I love your idea for the structure, it makes perfect sense to me. I will have a play with those tomorrow, I think i've got a hefty day at work tomorrow so it will be a nice way to relax. I see what you mean about repetition, I was worried that by repeating section B that I would be making it boring, but I think it would have tied it up a bit better. 

Thanks for your structural help. It's wonderful to have so much support and advice.


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## juergen

I really enjoyed it. I wouldn't change much. Only the ending eventually could be improved as Steven already has mentioned.


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