# Britten's music



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I may be wrong but it seems that a few here love Britten's music while there are probably more who actively dislike it. The majority, I think, like a few pieces but are ambivalent. To me, he seems one of the very greatest, far above the "he's OK" category. Where do you stand? And why? Do feel free to make negative comments about his music if that is what you feel. I would like to get a sense of why he may be such a marmite composer.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Big fan here, especially of his operas, which, in terms of variety of chosen subject matter, mastery of whatever forces he employed and sheer consistency of quality overall, makes for one of the finest bodies of 20th century work I've heard. Britten had a natural aptitude and affinity for all kinds of vocal writing and his large output in that category, ranging from art-songs and folk arrangements through to the big stuff like the _Spring Symphony_ and _War Requiem_, is fascinating as well.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I like him more than not -- and co0nsider a few of his works to be outright masterpieces.

A few decades ago, Andrew Porter, in describing the difference between Britten and Tippett (a remarkable but extremely uneven composer), likened it to the difference between a composer who aimed for the moon and hit it every time, and one who aimed for the stars and mostly missed.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I've recently been listening to Phaedra and Lucretia. Two terrific works by one of my favourite composers. His chamber music is much underrated, particularly his string quartets.


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## Chromatose (Jan 18, 2016)

It took me a long time to come around to his work, for the longest time it seemed to me very sterile and cold. Now i'm a great fan of many of his works especially his quartets and his piano concerto.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

What should I listen to first to get an idea of his style? Is Peter Grimes supposed to be his most popular work? I think a private instructor said or implied that I wouldn't be interested in his music due to my other tastes, but I'd at least like to get an idea of his style.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Two VERY popular works by Britten are his rowdy _Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra_ and the _Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings_.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2018)

Britten is the composer of some of my favourite operas. To me, his operas are his best works, then his choral music. The majority e of other pieces are perhaps less remarkable, but fun to listen to anyway. Maybe he is a little less popular here because it's the music outside regular concert hall repertoire that he really excelled in.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Fredx2098 said:


> What should I listen to first to get an idea of his style? Is Peter Grimes supposed to be his most popular work? I think a private instructor said or implied that I wouldn't be interested in his music due to my other tastes, but I'd at least like to get an idea of his style.


For absolute claustrophobic drama I recommend _The Turn of the Screw_.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Chromatose said:


> It took me a long time to come around to his work, for the longest time it seemed to me very sterile and cold. Now i'm a great fan of many of his works especially his quartets and his piano concerto.


Sterile and cold can be good - that's one of the reasons I get on very well with Hindemith.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> For absolute claustrophobic drama I recommend _The Turn of the Screw_.


The only thing that is holding me back from _really really_ enjoying this opera is the librettist's interpretation of the original novella......I had always read it under the assumption that the ghosts were in the imagination of the governess and the real horror of the story was her gradual loss of sanity and loss of touch with the real world.


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## Chromatose (Jan 18, 2016)

elgars ghost said:


> Sterile and cold can be good - that's one of the reasons I get on very well with Hindemith.


Oh yes I quite agree and for the same reasons, I also enjoy Hindemith a great deal. It's hard to put into words exactly the features or qualities that make a particular person's work sound the way it comes across to you personally. Anyhow, Britten just seemed to create an especially alien soundscape to me and that was the way I described it to myself at the time. One of the things that made me keep coming round to him was because of how much Shostakovich admired his music.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I love his operas.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

"Now the Great Bear and Pleiades"






Generally, I don't much like opera but...

"Old Joe has gone Fishing"


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The War Requiem is my favourite from this excellent composer.

His operas are mostly very worthwhile (personal favourite is Death in Venice). If you're not into opera, the orchestral excerpts from Peter Grimes (Four sea interludes) is also a great introduction.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Fredx2098 said:


> What should I listen to first to get an idea of his style? Is Peter Grimes supposed to be his most popular work? I think a private instructor said or implied that I wouldn't be interested in his music due to my other tastes, but I'd at least like to get an idea of his style.


Nocturne for tenor, 7 instruments and strings; Turn of the Screw; Third Quartet; Grimes; Serenade.

I really think that you have to hear him being sung by a bleating goat -- Peter Pears. Or in the case of Grimes, Jon Vickers.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Cello symphony, violin concerto, first string quartet, four sea interludes, variations on a theme by Frank Bridge. These are some of my favourite pieces from this terrific composer.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Interview here about England and English music with Morton Feldman, including a perceptive comment about Britten

http://www.cnvill.net/mfopus2.htm

For Philip Guston was played at Snape this year, I wasn't there.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Interview here about England and English music with Morton Feldman, including a perceptive comment about Britten
> 
> http://www.cnvill.net/mfopus2.htm
> 
> For Philip Guston was played at Snape this year, I wasn't there.


It's interesting to hear/read him talking about his indeterminate music. I wonder if he's commented on his switch from indeterminacy to precisely composed music.

And that's a shame. That's a piece I'd really like to see performed live. I think that's his most mind-blowing piece, as opposed to Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello which is just a perfect mellow, sad atmosphere and a perfect end to his music. To me it sounds like he's accepting his death.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

The problem I think with Britten is that there is no really good jumping in point for new listeners. He makes demands of his listeners and some will get him right away and others will struggle. Grimes is as good a place as any but it would be better to see it first then listen. A Midsummer Night's Dream is lovely too, but again, watch first. The Sea Interludes from Grimes give a fair indication of his orchestral style.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Fredx2098 said:


> What should I listen to first to get an idea of his style? Is Peter Grimes supposed to be his most popular work? I think a private instructor said or implied that I wouldn't be interested in his music due to my other tastes, but I'd at least like to get an idea of his style.


There are many ways to start and I guess the Serenade is one. Or the earlier song cycle in French (Rimbaud poems), Les Illuminations. But why not try Curlew River? It is probably the most successful of his Church Parables and based on the Japanese noh play, Sumidagawa (Sumida River). It is a piece I somehow find myself listening to often and it never fails to hit home. Or the opera, Midsummer Night's Dream with its weird fairy sounds and setting of Shakespeare's words (rather than a libretto based on a Shakespeare play)? Or the Cello Symphony or string quartets?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> There are many ways to start and I guess the Serenade is one. Or the earlier song cycle in French (Rimbaud poems), Les Illuminations. But why not try Curlew River? It is probably the most successful of his Church Parables and based on the Japanese noh play, Sumidagawa (Sumida River). It is a piece I somehow find myself listening to often and it never fails to hit home. Or the opera, Midsummer Night's Dream with its weird fairy sounds and setting of Shakespeare's words (rather than a libretto based on a Shakespeare play)? Or the Cello Symphony or string quartets?


I've only seen it once, in a London performance given by a prison opera group. It was very good. In fact it's the only church parable I've heard.

One work I feel very enthusiastic about is Still Falls the Rain. I know that Fredx is interested in setting poetry to music, and Still falls the Rain is a good example of Britten's art in that respect.


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## Iota (Jun 20, 2018)

I find Britten's music often very lean in effect, which I think works so effectively in drama for example, leaving wide open spaces for tension, unspoken feeling, the crackling of psychological intensity etc. At other times the economy of resources can feel (deliberately I think) claustrophobic, baleful, also powerful tools for conveying dramatic tension. 

The last thing I listened to being the absolutely remarkable Rape of Lucretia (Britten recording) I still have that often barren sound world in my head, against which both sinister machinations and welling up of expressive intensity, play equally powerfully.
It is the opera and song cycles which most appeal, but also enjoy majority of the other things I know.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I was fortunate - I came to Britten via performance. My freshman year of college, the orchestra was staging Peter Grimes, and looking for choristers (read "suckers who'd risk their GPA to spend endless unpaid hours rehearsing"). I auditioned, was accepted, and have admired ("loved" is probably not correct) most of his music ever since. We rehearsed so many hours that 40 years later, I can still sing the entire score, including most of the solo parts, from memory.

That said, I've never really taken to his purely instrumental music, or to some of the lesser known operas - I just attempted to listen to Owen Wingrave, and didn't hear anything that I'd want to hear a second time. But Grimes, Billy Budd, and MSND are masterpieces, and the Serenade Op. 31 is one of my absolute favorite works.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

For my money, Britten is the best opera composer of the twentieth century. (Prokofieff is a distant second.) I agree with Barbebleu that there is no ideal starting point for newcomers, though. _Peter Grimes_ is the obvious choice mostly because it's the most well-known, but in my opinion _Billy Budd_ and _Gloriana_ are more accessible. My favorite is _Turn of the Screw_, but that is arguably the prickliest of the operas (which is why I love it).


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I've never got on with Billy Budd, there are long dialogue scenes, where Vere discusses things with his officers for example, which I don't enjoy. And some of the sadistic stuff -- that man who gets whipped -- Squeak I think he's called -- is embarrassing. As is things like "starry starry Vere"

I find most of Death in Venice a bit cringe-making. 

And I have never liked Gloriana.

I've never heard Owen Wingrave.

Grimes is a good "outsider" story. There are memorable tunes -- it's like a tonal Wozzeck, it's very similar to Wozzeck. Hard to pull off -- especially when he finally goes mad at the end.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

The concept of a "tonal Wozzeck" sounds interesting. I was thinking of starting with the Serenade, but are there pieces that are particularly archetypical of his style? Or does he even have an archetype that could be described vaguely?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I've never got on with Billy Budd, there are long dialogue scenes, where Vere discusses things with his officers for example, which I don't enjoy. And some of the sadistic stuff -- that man who gets whipped -- Squeak I think he's called -- is embarrassing. As is things like "starry starry Vere".


Isn't that partly Melville's fault, though?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> Or the opera, Midsummer Night's Dream with its weird fairy sounds and setting of Shakespeare's words (rather than a libretto based on a Shakespeare play)?


Britten's MSND may be the finest setting or adaptation of any Shakespeare play (and no, I'm not forgetting about Verdi's).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

wkasimer said:


> Britten's MSND may be the finest setting or adaptation of any Shakespeare play (and no, I'm not forgetting about Verdi's).


Amen to that - _AMND_ is magical. Very clever that the three sets of characters are given totally different musical textures - it all adds to the enchanted aspects of the work which really makes the play come alive.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> Britten's MSND may be the finest setting or adaptation of any Shakespeare play (and no, I'm not forgetting about Verdi's).


NO WAY. Otello and Falstaff rule.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Fredx2098 said:


> The concept of a "tonal Wozzeck" sounds interesting. I was thinking of starting with the Serenade, but are there pieces that are particularly archetypical of his style? Or does he even have an archetype that could be described vaguely?


He developed and there are four or five (or more?) periods to his output, each distinctive in their ways and all of them recognisable as Britten! It doesn't matter where you start: there are many song cycles (mostly setting great poems from the past rather than poetry that was being written while Britten was writing); operas (some opera house fare and some dramas for smaller venues), orchestral pieces and chamber music. Some people find his music for voice more focused than his music that does not set words.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> He developed and there are four or five (or more?) periods to his output, each distinctive in their ways and all of them recognisable as Britten! It doesn't matter where you start: there are many song cycles (mostly setting great poems from the past rather than poetry that was being written while Britten was writing); operas (some opera house fare and some dramas for smaller venues), orchestral pieces and chamber music. Some people find his music for voice more focused than his music that does not set words.


Do you know any works that would appeal to my tastes, i.e. complex harmonies and gentle dissonance, etc.? Or is he more of a boisterous composer? Not that I don't like boisterous music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Fredx2098 said:


> Do you know any works that would appeal to my tastes, i.e. complex harmonies and gentle dissonance, etc.? Or is he more of a boisterous composer? Not that I don't like boisterous music.


Try the songs from the Chinese, op 58.

At the end of Billy Budd, Budd meets with de Vere in private so that they can discuss the ethics of the situation. We don't hear the discussion (thank gawd), but we do hear some chords which illustrate the tension very well, the music at this point reminds me of the serenade (second movement) of Shostakovich's 15th quartet.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Songs from the Chinese was the second Britten work I ever heard, John Williams on guitar and Wilfred Brown, voice. The first work I heard was Julian Bream playing the Nocturnal. Two lovely compositions and if there are entry level pieces by Britten, these would come in for consideration.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Fredx2098 said:


> Do you know any works that would appeal to my tastes, i.e. complex harmonies and gentle dissonance, etc.? Or is he more of a boisterous composer? Not that I don't like boisterous music.


Dip your toe in the water! Britten's range of moods is quite wide. I do think you would enjoy Curlew River .... but then I suspect you'll like most of the recommendations that have been here.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> Try the songs from the Chinese, op 58.


Good to see these mentioned. They've always been among my favorites. I like the original Pears/Bream version, available on this recording.

https://www.amazon.com/Music-Voice-...=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1531763660&sr=1-2


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

An easier route into the music of Britten is his early string music, Simple Symphony and Variations on a theme of Frank Bridge. I have 'em both on one CD. 

The music of Britten doesn't at all seem nationalistic like Elgar, RVW or Holst. If you come to his music for the first time thinking it'll sound like his fellow Englishmen you'll be disappointed. Yes, he was born after, a generation after; in no way does his music come across as jingoistic. To my ears, his music sounds rather unique. 

I think his music has a certain bite to it, dramatic but restrained. (Maybe that is an English way of feeling) 

Although I'm not really into opera, I should check out his other operas. I've seen Peter Grimes on the television and heard it performed by our local orchestra (it wasn't staged). Some years ago, I saw my local opera company perform Albert Herring, but it was too long ago to comment. And I have Death in Venice as an orchestral suite on CD.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> NO WAY. Otello and Falstaff rule.


I beg to differ. It's King Lear.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

The list of Britten's works I grudgingly like does seem to be increasing, albeit very slowly. I do quite like the Serenade, and the quartets are decent too. 

But I am afraid Britten is my most loathed composer, as for me he uglifies the English language, especially in his operas, and although there are other languages which sound properly beautiful when sung, English ain't that awful, well not when others get their hands on it.

Janáček, Hindemith and Martinů make greater multiple contributions to the pool of great twentieth century opera for me.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Robert Pickett said:


> The list of Britten's works I grudgingly like does seem to be increasing, albeit very slowly. I do quite like the Serenade, and the quartets are decent too.
> 
> But I am afraid Britten is my most loathed composer, as for me he uglifies the English language, especially in his operas, and although there are other languages which sound properly beautiful when sung, English ain't that awful, well not when others get their hands on it.
> 
> Janáček, Hindemith and Martinů make greater multiple contributions to the pool of great twentieth century opera for me.


At last! Someone who doesn't like Britten very much. I know there are more out there!

Robert - which composers of English songs and operas do you like in their handling of the language? Britten's approach to the language particularly has been quite influential.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

MarkW said:


> A few decades ago, Andrew Porter, in describing the difference between Britten and Tippett (a remarkable but extremely uneven composer), likened it to the difference between a composer who aimed for the moon and hit it every time, and one who aimed for the stars and mostly missed.


Nice quote. But, for me, it sells Britten far short. It fits because Britten's music is more worldly and Tippett's more mystical (even when he didn't intend it) and I more or less agree with the quote about Tippett (except maybe for the word "mostly"). But it does not seem to me that Britten's ambition was lacking in any way. He aimed very high and delivered!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> At last! Someone who doesn't like Britten very much. I know there are more out there!
> 
> Robert - which composers of English songs and operas do you like in their handling of the language? Britten's approach to the language particularly has been quite influential.


Not sure whether we should be discussing this here, I am sure those who do actually like Britten will not be too impressed....

Never mind! I'd probably say that of all the European musics of the past 200 years, it would be British I know/enjoy least, sad really. But there are beautiful songs and beautiful non-stuffy non-Victorian choral works on my own mother tongue. Some examples I genuinely enjoy would include:

Songs: Elgar (another composer low on my list of loves, but for other reasons!) - Sea Pictures
Vaughan Williams: too many to mention. Songs of Travel may not be his very finest work, but I like them very much
Butterworth and his Shropshire Lad, naturally!
And despite him being more Brittenesque in his vocal writing, I like a great deal of Finzi's vocal works. Dies Natalis IS a truly wonderful piece.

Choral works:
A Child of our Time is the greatest piece of choral music ever written by a British composer who avoided the war, in this case, conscientiously.
Belshazzar's Feast
Dona Nobis Pacem, as a real highlight of RVW's choral output.
Rubbra's Sinfonia sacra also deserves a mention here too.

As to opera, I think I prefer anything not in English! Maybe I'd be ok with Peter Grimes et al if I were to see it in Finnish with surtitles? With the obvious exception of Purcell, and to a lesser extent Handel, I do like RVW again, not his finest pieces, but lovely listening. Midsummer Marriage, King Priam, great stuff. And with sincere apologies, again with many of the Britten irritations, I don't know why, but I love Birtwhistle and all his Orpheus stuff. Strange, but immensely compelling.

Britten enthusiasts, please ignore the above. :devil:


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Robert Pickett said:


> Britten enthusiasts, please ignore the above. :devil:


Don't worry, we already have!:lol:


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Sorry, forgot to add ".......at your own peril" to the final sentence.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I'm sure we all have blank spots when it comes to composers. Mine is anything baroque with one or two exceptions. It's not that I actively dislike it, it just doesn't hit the spot but hey ho, there's a wheen ( look it up) of people who do appreciate that period.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

I'm about halfway through the serenade and I'm loving it! It has a certain calm, mellow quality that remains even with the crescendos. It sounds like Jeremy Soule may have been influenced by Britten if this piece is indicative of his style.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

My first encounter with Britten was when I attended a live concert of his violin concerto. once I heard the opening, I couldn't hold my tears. 

in the previous days I have been listening to his music. I absolutely adore his string quartets. I will try make the rest of the day devoted for his operas


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I like some Britten but agree with the above post that the string quartets are special. 🎻


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Britten is one of the greatest especially for "Nocturnal" and I can even play it (if I practice for some months)  After "receiving the revelation of Nocturnal" I found the other pieces with guitar and then Spring Symphony and Hymn to St. Cecilia on a cassette I bought in London back in the 80's. I still have to discover many pieces though. Had the Cello Symphony on repeat a while ago.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I'll add in my own two measly cents here, I love much of Britten's music. There are several operas that I have an affection for: _The Turn of the Screw_, _Gloriana_ and, for me, his operatic masterpiece, _Death in Venice_. Truth be told, when I want to listen to Britten, I seldom reach for his operas, but since most of his oeuvre consists of vocal works, I have a fondness for his song cycles, especially _Serenade for Tenor, Horn & Strings_, _Nocturne_, _Les Illuminations_ and ones for voice/piano like _Winter Words_, _Sechs Hölderlin-Fragmente_ and _The Poet's Echo_ to name a few. I also love the _War Requiem_, _Cantata academica_, _Phaedra_ and I still maintain that _A Ceremony of Carols_, _Rejoice in the Lamb_ and _Christ's Nativity_ are some of the most exquisite choral works ever written. His SQs are masterful and exemplary as are many of his orchestral and concerti like _Sinfonia da Requiem_, _Lachrymae_, the _Piano Concerto_, _Diversions_ et. al. Like it or not, he was hugely influential on the British classical scene and was one of their greatest exports. He had an unmistakable individuality and his music inhabited a sound-world that was solely unique to him even though he could hardly be seen as an innovator. FYI, Shostakovich, a good friend of Britten's, wasn't an innovator either, but this doesn't mean they're music isn't worth exploring and listening to --- quite the contrary. Anyway, Britten was an amazing composer that some will acquire the taste for and others will not, but that's just the nature of this music in general.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

I like his music quite a bit, but its hard to play for sure. There is a guitar work of his...the Nocturnal op 70. I heard Bream play it at the Majestic theater in Dallas Tx back when I was music school. It is a set of variations that work their way into a Dowland like bit at the finale. After all the crazy modern stuff, when it becomes tonal at the end, its just fantastic. I went and bought the score the next day.

He's my favorite 20th century composer, really

well, him and Berg anyway


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