# Does applause mean anything?



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, another study! The BBC reports, "The quality of a performance does not drive the amount of applause an audience gives, a study suggests. Instead scientists have found that clapping is contagious, and the length of an ovation is influenced by how other members of the crowd behave."

Check it out. What do you think?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22957099


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Applause is either genuine or polite, if it happens at all.

I only applaud performances that earn my genuine approval.

Several years ago I attended the world premiere of a god-awful avant-garde work by a Dutch composer at the Disney Hall in LA. Only about half the hall applauded. I was in the other half. I was proud of this audience; like me, it did not feel the need to give false applause to be polite. It was sophisticated and honest enough to say, basically: "No. That was ugly and waste of my time. Therefore, I will not waste my applause on this nonsense." Or something like that!

So, at that particular performance, with that particular crowd, I'd say YES, applause (or the lack thereof) meant something.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> So, at that particular performance, with that particular crowd, I'd say YES, applause (or the lack thereof) meant something.


Fair enough! But that raises another question: Do we normally applaud the work or the orchestra's playing?


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

Even if you dislike the music, the musicians put a LOT of effort into a performance so one should always clap a little at least.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Well, an orchestra's performance can be exceedingly committed and well done, but, despite that, the music can be terrible.

This is a good question and one that is tricky to answer. I think applause should be due to a performance that is "all-inclusive." For example, let's say an orchestra plays Sibelius's 7th. The music is good, no doubt. But what if the orchestra makes a mess of it. Despite Sibelius's amazing score, the way it's pulled off by a crappy orchestra likely does not deserve the approval of the audience. Thus, applause may not be appropriate.

What if it's the other way? This is trickier yet. If the orchestra plays a hard piece by, say, Boulez, and does it with laser precision, but the music still sounds like a pretentious train wreck regardless, should the audience applaud? I's say NO. This is, I am afraid, a little like shooting the messenger, but if the audience is forced to sit through a nasty-sounding piece, no matter who well the orchestra plays it, it will still still sound nasty regardless. If the audience feels that its time and energy was wasted on a piece of bad music played with precision, their interpretation will likely remain that the music was bad. Therefore, applause should be withheld. Yes, this is shooting the messenger to some degree, but perhaps it will make the "messenger" be more aware of the types of music its audience wants to hear in the future.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Check it out. What do you think?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22957099


I think the report doesn't give enough information about how the quality of the performance was ruled out as a variable.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2013)

Lest anyone be fooled by presumptions about this being 'research' by some eminent professor, here's a picture or two of Mr Mann...

View attachment 19817


and

View attachment 19818


http://www2.math.uu.se/~rmann/Home.html

Would you trust this man with your applause?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

The politeness of classical music audiences is well known.

I come from a slightly less forgiving tradition. There are some lovely stories in the article. Most of them true!


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

It's like leaving a tip. Sometimes the service is lovely but the food is terrible. You tip the waiter, don't you, because he did his part? But you can pass comment on the food. I applaud the performance if it's worth it: Mozart can't hear if the performance is crap and I decide to applaud the composer...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Taggart said:


> The politeness of classical music audiences is well known.
> 
> I come from a slightly less forgiving tradition. There are some lovely stories in the article. Most of them true!


*Lovely *stories! :lol: That's hilarious, what a place!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

There is definitely a sheep mentality with applause. One claps first and the herd follows. It's funny!


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

You can hear a big difference between a polite clap and a genuine clap, so if I'm disappointed i clap a few times just to make some noise. As piano player, i know that preparing a repertoire takes a long time of intense study, and sometimes you balance between sanity/madness. So i always clap for the effort.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Even if I didn't necessarily like a performance, I will still applaud. The performers usually will have worked hard, gave an honest effort, and gave their time to create something with the idea of enriching everyones' lives, even if only a little bit.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes, we as a species are subtle enough to tell the difference between desultory applause and genuine appreciation. With some avant-garde it's hard to kniow whether its the score or the performance that is sub par. I would certainly try to to applaud desultorily at least.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Tapkaara said:


> Well, an orchestra's performance can be exceedingly committed and well done, but, despite that, the music can be terrible.
> 
> This is a good question and one that is tricky to answer. I think applause should be due to a performance that is "all-inclusive." For example, let's say an orchestra plays Sibelius's 7th. The music is good, no doubt. But what if the orchestra makes a mess of it. Despite Sibelius's amazing score, the way it's pulled off by a crappy orchestra likely does not deserve the approval of the audience. Thus, applause may not be appropriate.
> 
> What if it's the other way? This is trickier yet. If the orchestra plays a hard piece by, say, Boulez, and does it with laser precision, but the music still sounds like a pretentious train wreck regardless, should the audience applaud? I's say NO. This is, I am afraid, a little like shooting the messenger, but if the audience is forced to sit through a nasty-sounding piece, no matter who well the orchestra plays it, it will still still sound nasty regardless. If the audience feels that its time and energy was wasted on a piece of bad music played with precision, their interpretation will likely remain that the music was bad. Therefore, applause should be withheld. Yes, this is shooting the messenger to some degree, but perhaps it will make the "messenger" be more aware of the types of music its audience wants to hear in the future.


What about people who enjoy music that sounds like a "pretentious train wreck," should they applaud?


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Applause is the currency with which the audience repays the performers for their efforts. A spectacular performance earns multiple curtain calls, standing O's, and sometimes encores. But even a local ensemble, playing something way over its head, get applause for the time and effort involved. The exception would be a professional who plays with a ho-hum attitude -- that's not what performance is about. Applause for a composer attending a premiere is a separate matter.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> What about people who enjoy music that sounds like a "pretentious train wreck," should they applaud?


Of course! If a performance pleases you on any level, and your applause is sincere, than by all means!

I see that people are saying that orchestras should be applauded if you do not like the music but if the playing was good. They worked hard to perform it. I see the logic here, but, if we are to applaud a good performance of music we hated, then it seems to me that any and all performances should be applauded. This seems to take away the sincerety of the applause; it's more polite than heartfelt. I don't agree with this personally.

Again, if an orchestra pulls off a committed performance of music I hated, I simply cannot applaud. That is my policy. The fact that I showed up to the hall to hear live music at all, though. should be construed as my general support of the orchestra. But to applaud everything they do out of simple politesse is just not my style.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

I don't see how it hurts anyone to applaud. I don't think polite applause compromises the integrity of "genuine", enthusiastic applause.

Is refusing to applaud a show of disapproval? If so, I don't see what good that does.


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## dstring (May 14, 2013)

It's the most natural thing to do to thank the performers by applauding after a performance. I hope the ones who won't applaud if they didn't like the performance, still say "thank you" to the bartender even though they didn't necessarily like the service!


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## Avey (Mar 5, 2013)

I actually snap my fingers. Is that why I've never seen an encore?


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## IBMchicago (May 16, 2012)

I'm definitely guilty of mindless applause, as well as forcing myself to restrain applause for a brilliantly performed movement. A fun read about this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/08/classical-music-applause-rule-obama


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

As a performer, I feel that any time the audience is using their hands for something other than throwing things at me it's a net positive.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Weston said:


> Yes, we as a species are subtle enough to tell the difference between desultory applause and genuine appreciation. With some avant-garde it's hard to kniow whether its the score or the performance that is sub par. I would certainly try to to applaud desultorily at least.


Most orchestral performances of Schoenberg before 1970 or so are at best problematic, and at worst crap. The players don't know what their parts are supposed to sound like, and it shows.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

> Does applause mean anything?


it means I'm still awake! and if you knew how many action films I snoozed through, you'd be thrilled with my sparse clapping...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

If, as performer or composer, you want a near guaranteed standing ovation, go to Holland. Dutch audiences routinely stand up quickly and applaud -- one Dutch commentator remarked it was like the audiences were applauding themselves on having purchased a ticket, gone out, and found the venue where the concert took place, and after the program ends they are eager to stretch their legs while they applaud. 

One could also say the convention is Über-Polite, and the Dutch will always very much acknowledge the efforts of performers and composers regardless.

I never attended anything in any venue, a cafe Konzert to Ijsbreker, Concertgebouw (Kleine Zaal, Grote Zaal), Beurs van Berlage, Stadsschouwburg, contemporary music performed in the Paradiso, the Stopera, the small room which is the venue in the Steim (Studio for Electro-Instrumental Music) -- which did not receive a standing ovation -- rendering the standing ovation essentially meaningless.


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