# Dvorakeen



## Musician (Jul 25, 2013)

Does anyone else here also hears Beethoven's Fifth in the piano entrance of Dvorak's Concerto?
And also in a weird way, Gershwin's theme from his Blue Rhapsody?

2:17


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2013)

Three shorts and a long is a very common pattern.

You can find it practically everywhere, sometimes a conscious reference to the opening of Beethoven's fifth, as in Schnittke's _Inspector's Tale_ or Ives' _Concord_ sonata. Sometimes less obviously a reference, as in Dvorak's _Noonday Witch_ or Xenakis' _Orient/Occident_.

And what about _Mahler's_ fifth? Some pattern as in Beethoven's fifth except that the last note stays on the same level for a couple of times until it goes up rather than down. (And the key is c _sharp_ minor rather than c minor.) Pretty bold, I would say. But hardly anybody mentions the similarity--or that it occurs in the same number of symphony. Odd that.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

The first thing that comes to my mind on hearing the piano's entry in the Dvorak is Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto, much more so than the 5th Symph.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I too hear Beethoven's 4th. 

I have not made to the Mahler's 5th yet in a deep listening session so I'll be alert for that.


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## Musician (Jul 25, 2013)

Yes, great point about Beethoven's 4th concerto, its true...


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

some guy said:


> And what about _Mahler's_ fifth? Some pattern as in Beethoven's fifth except that the last note stays on the same level for a couple of times until it goes up rather than down. (And the key is c _sharp_ minor rather than c minor.) Pretty bold, I would say. But hardly anybody mentions the similarity--or that it occurs in the same number of symphony. Odd that.


I've always thought it is a not-so-subtle nod to Ludwig and his iconic 5th, but indeed there is little mention of it.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Skilmarilion said:


> I've always thought it is a not-so-subtle nod to Ludwig and his iconic 5th, but indeed there is little mention of it.


The rhythm is actually not the same. The Beethoven is three eighth notes followed by a half note in 2/4 time, while the Mahler is a triplet followed by a half note in 2/2.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2013)

True. But very similar.

Three shorts and a long.

(And, as I already pointed out, going up at the end (finally) rather than down.

Lots of differences. The similarity is striking in part because of the differences, I'd say.)


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