# Faschingsschwank aus Wien - Robert Schumann



## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

What do you guys think about this piece by Schumann? I love it and find it a joy everytime I hear it. It seems to me to be one of his most underrated and neglected pieces. Why isn't it talked about more and performed more often? I can't see why it shouldn't be regarded as high as some of his other masterpieces, like Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze and Kreisleriana... Or is it just me? Is this something I am alone in feeling?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

A Letter from Cortot to Cziffra:

"Dear friend,

As I listened to the radio yesterday afternoon, I heard your wonderful version of "Carnaval de Vienne" [Faschingsschwank aus Wien] and I cannot resist to express to you my most sincere admiration. Although my personal conception of the work is slightly different from yours in certain details of expression, your interpretation was inspired, quite worthy of the original intention of Schumann, both discreet and openly revealed, consistently moving and picturesque.

Bravo, dear friend, and thank you again for this very inspired interpretation that filled me with joy.

Very sincerely yours,

Alfred Cortot"


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Beebert said:


> What do you guys think about this piece by Schumann? I love it and find it a joy everytime I hear it. It seems to me to be one of his most underrated and neglected pieces. Why isn't it talked about more and performed more often? I can't see why it shouldn't be regarded as high as some of his other masterpieces, like Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze and Kreisleriana... Or is it just me? Is this something I am alone in feeling?


Faschingsschwank aus Wien is certainly one of Schumann's masterpieces. The Intermezzo in particular is breathtaking.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I really don't like Romantic celebratory sort of music. Of his well-known pieces, I like his Kreisleriana the most, but his canonic studies by far above all else.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> A Letter from Cortot to Cziffra:
> 
> "Dear friend,
> 
> ...


Cziffra is usually too heavy handed and overly virtuosic for Schumann but his Faschingsschwank aus Wien is one of the best recordings of the work by anybody.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

There's an alternative title to music, _Phantasiebilder_, which suggests that each part has an associated "picture"

Does anyone know anything about this? Are there any comments in the score?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

chu42 said:


> Cziffra is usually too heavy handed and overly virtuosic for Schumann but his Faschingsschwank aus Wien is one of the best recordings of the work by anybody.


Is Cziffra's the earliest recording of it?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> I really don't like Romantic celebratory sort of music.


Me neither.

cv;.zsnm v,klxsd n


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Phil loves classical said:


> I really don't like Romantic celebratory sort of music. Of his well-known pieces, I like his Kreisleriana the most, but his *canonic studies* by far above all else.


the symphonic etudes?





this sounds pretty celebratory.

this sort of expression in Schumann strongly reminds me of Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky did regard Schumann as one of his models.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Beebert said:


> I can't see why it shouldn't be regarded as high as some of his other masterpieces, like Carnaval, Davidsbündlertänze and Kreisleriana... Or is it just me? Is this something I am alone in feeling?


I don't really sympathize with other people's enthusiasm for Fantasie Op.17, but I'm fond of another extended piano solo work by Schumann, the second piano sonata. I find it weird it's not mentioned as often as the Fantasie.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

chu42 said:


> Cziffra is usually too heavy handed and overly virtuosic for Schumann but his Faschingsschwank aus Wien is one of the best recordings of the work by anybody.


I think Cziffra is a splendid Schumann pianist. Take his madcap Carnival!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> the symphonic etudes?


I think he means op 56, which were in fact arranged rather beautifully for two pianos by Debussy. There's an attractive performance by Christoph Eschenbach and Tzimon Barto.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I really like Faschingsschwank aus Wien as well. 
I used to play the Intermezzo, wonderful piece, should pick it up again! And the finale is fun!
I'd recommend Alicia de Loraccha for this piece. Or Richter for more fire.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> the symphonic etudes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No this...


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Phil loves classical said:


> I really don't like Romantic celebratory sort of music. Of his well-known pieces, I like his Kreisleriana the most, but his canonic studies by far above all else.


Do you know the story behind Faschingsschwank aus Wien? I don't think it's meant to be very celebratory at all...more of a "Hunchback of Notre Dame" type thing.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

So why do you guys think the piece is performed much less often than some of his other big works?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

wrong thread... disregard


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Beebert said:


> So why do you guys think the piece is performed much less often than some of his other big works?


I think that's an interesting question. Schumann's keyboard music after the 1836 Fantasy is all in the same boat if you ask me. There may be a conservatory tradition that the music is not tip top. Concerts and recordings which are devoted to the post 1836 music may not sell well.



> Op. 19, Blumenstück (Flower Piece) in D-flat (1839)
> Op. 20, Humoreske in B-flat (1839)
> Op. 21, Novelletten (Novelettes) (1838)
> Op. 22, Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor (1833-1838)
> ...


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

> I think that's an interesting question. Schumann's keyboard music after the 1836 Fantasy is all in the same boat if you ask me. There may be a conservatory tradition that the music is not tip top. Concerts and recordings which are devoted to the post 1836 music may not sell well.


This is a misguided assumption by academia based on the idea that Schumann was mentally declining. Here are the post-1836 works that I consider to be very good:

*Op. 19, Blumenstück (Flower Piece) in D-flat (1839)
Op. 20, Humoreske in B-flat (1839)
Op. 21, Novelletten (Novelettes) (1838)
Op. 22, Piano Sonata No. 2 in G minor (1833-1838)*
*Op. 23, Nachtstücke (Night Pieces) (1839)
Op. 26, Faschingsschwank aus Wien (Carnival Jest from Vienna) (1839)
Op. 28, Three Romances (1839)*
Op. 32, 4 Klavierstücke (Scherzo, Gigue, Romance and Fughette) (1838-9)
Op. 56, Studies in the Form of Canons for Organ or Pedal Piano (Etuden in kanonischer Form für Orgel oder Pedalklavier) (1845; also known in arrangements for piano trio)
Op. 58, Sketches for Organ or Pedal Piano (Skizzen für Orgel oder Pedalklavier) (1845)
Op. 60, 6 Fugues on B-A-C-H for organ or pedal piano (1845)
Op. 66, Bilder aus Osten (Pictures from the East), 6 Impromptus for piano 4-hands (1848)
*Op. 68, Album for the Young (Album für die Jugend) (1848)
*Op. 72, Four Fugues (Vier Fugen) (1845)
Op. 76, Four Marches (Vier Märsche) (1849)
*Op. 82, Waldszenen (Forest Scenes) (1848-1849)
*Op. 85, 12 Piano Pieces for Young and Older Children (12 Klavierstücke für kleine und große Kinder) (piano 4 hands) (1849)
*Op. 99, Bunte Blätter ("Coloured Leaves") (1836-1849)
*Op. 109, Ball-Scenen (Scenes from a Ball) (4 hands) (1851)
*Op. 111, Three Fantasiestücke (1851)
*Op. 118, Drei Sonaten für die Jugend (Three Piano Sonatas for the Young) (1853)
*Op. 124, Album Leaves (Albumblätter) (1832-1845) (includes one piece previously part of WoO 31)
*Op. 126, Seven Piano Pieces in Fughetta Form (1853)
Op. 130, Children's Ball (Kinderball) (four hands) (1853)
*Op. 133, Gesänge der Frühe (Songs of Dawn) (1853)
*

So I supposed it would be better to say that his creativity in piano writing was rather worn out by Op.30 or so. Afterwards he became more and more conservative, although not necessarily declining in actual quality. There are also the oft-neglected unpublished works such as the lovely Ghost Variations and the unfinished Beethoven variations.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

And as for why Faschingsschwank aus Wien never captured the public imagination, well, very few of Schumann's piano works actually became popular with general audiences. The Fantasie in C and Symphonic Etudes have always been the easiest of his solo output to process and understand that. Beyond that, there is not much that is very suitable for general audiences, due to his rejection of solo form and his tendencies to place harmony over melody. However, the invested Schumann fans do know that Op.26 is indeed one of Schumann's large-scale masterpieces and indeed one of the most brilliant piano works ever written.

In my opinion, the other Schumann pieces in that fall in this category would be:
Op.6 Davidsbundlertanze
Op.9 Carnaval
Op.11 Sonata No.1
Op.12 Fantasiestucke
Op.13 Symphonic Etudes
Op.14 Sonata No.3
Op.15 Kinderszenen
Op.16 Kreisleriana
Op.17 Fantasie
Op.20 Humoreske
Op.21 Sonata No.2 
Op.22 Novelletten
Op.26 Faschingsschwank aus Wien


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Do you know what the 1839 revision of op 17 consisted in? I noticed it mentioned on the Wikipedia works list. Are there recordings of the earlier and later, so I can hear the differences.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I just put on Sviatoslav Richter's recording. It's been a while since I've listened to this work. It's a good piece. Almost like a mini Kreisleriana, no...? I'm trying to listen to see if I can figure out what aspects of the piece lead to its lesser popularity, compared to the others works of Schumann's period of peak creativity. Could be that it's somewhat less melodic than some other works, like Carnaval, Kinderszenen etc...?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

flamencosketches said:


> I just put on Sviatoslav Richter's recording. It's been a while since I've listened to this work. It's a good piece. Almost like a mini Kreisleriana, no...? I'm trying to listen to see if I can figure out what aspects of the piece lead to its lesser popularity, compared to the others works of Schumann's period of peak creativity. Could be that it's somewhat less melodic than some other works, like Carnaval, Kinderszenen etc...?


My theory is that "Faschingsschwank aus Wien" is a bit of a handful to spell and pronounce.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

chu42 said:


> My theory is that "Faschingsschwank aus Wien" is a bit of a handfull to spell and pronounce.


Hahaha, I had a similar thought.


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