# Aliens



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

There are no right answers, here, but a discussion may bring out some interesting thoughts about what makes great music great. 

If aliens from space arrived on Earth (presupposes they are cognitively advanced) what would they make of our music? Would those who got to know much of it recognise the same composers and works that we do as the greatest? And what would we make of their music? And would eight arms give them superior abilities to play our music?

(You can skip the last question if you like.)


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

If they found us, they either would already be familiar with the Voyager playlist, or else they would think of it as something exotic and would breathlessly report it home, influencing their composers they way the gamelan orchestras influenced the French composers at the Paris Exhibition. 

Whether they take to the Western canon or to music from the East depends on how they see life, as teleological or cyclical. 

Of course, they could be like Starman, who came off his crashed vehicle singing Satisfaction.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

Aliens would not recognize composers . They would know the artist who speaks with music as language to them in person .


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Led Zeppelin... jump to the 1:05 mark...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I've thought extensively about the opposite: What single piece of music would we send out a fleet of space probes broadcasting in all directions so that at some point in the far future aliens might pick it up and know we were once here -- that would be least mystifying to them but most represntative of the high level of our intellectual, artistic, and imaginative achievemenr? For various reasons, including having no idea what their emotional capacity -- if any -- would be, I settled on Beethoven's E-flar quartet, Opus 127. It's not as emotionally challenging as some of the other Late Quartets (which we don't necessarily know aliens would "get"); four voices is about right; its demonstrates in broad outline the organizing principles behind some of our best musical forns (sonata, variations, scherzo/trio), but quirky and imaginative enough to show the range of what we can do within those forms; and abstract (no language to decode). I'll stick with that thinking. L-)


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Here is the list of music sent into outer space on the Voyager space mission of 1977. It's still whirling through the universe and perhaps one day it will be heard by a different species and you'll get your answer: https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/whats-on-the-record/music/






On the other hand, the perfection of the crop circles, not man-made, IMO, would suggest that they are closer than we think and it's likely we're being watched. Maybe all they need is someone to give them an iPod to get their reaction to the Goldberg Variations.  I do not believe we are alone in the universe. There are not just millions of galaxies out there, but billions just like ours, according to the astronomers and cosmologists, and perhaps some biological or other similarities with an alien species. Bork bork!


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Who knows, maybe their hearing range is higher or lower? Maybe op 127 to them should be played 4 octaves higher. Also who knows what phrasing they would relate to?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Enthusiast said:


> There are no right answers, here, but a discussion may bring out some interesting thoughts about what makes great music great.
> 
> If aliens from space arrived on Earth (presupposes they are cognitively advanced) what would they make of our music? Would those who got to know much of it recognise the same composers and works that we do as the greatest? And what would we make of their music? And would eight arms give them superior abilities to play our music?
> 
> (You can skip the last question if you like.)


Well you know, they would " recognise the same composers and works that we do as the greatest" if they'd come to understand the institutions which lay down musical values. "Greatness" isn't a property of the music like "three movements" is a property of the music. "Greatness" is a convention.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Nothing. They would likely have very different sensoric systems attuned to complete alien conditions and their sense of beauty would be completely alien to us. Do not imagine some anthropomorphic little green men, imagine for example something like an octopus
The Amazing Octopus - Most Intelligent Animal On Earth




now compare the mind of the octopus to the mind of humans. Is there any means of understanding each other or even sharing the same aesthetic criteria?


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Why would they even have a concept of music?

My cat for example cannot distinguish between music and just any old sounds (I'm pretty sure, anyway).


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Larkenfield said:


> Here is the list of music sent into outer space on the Voyager space mission of 1977. It's still whirling through the universe and perhaps one day it will be heard by a different species and you'll get your answer: https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/whats-on-the-record/music/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't know the content of this list. (thanks for the post)

Two words about it: Inadequate and artistically (to its greatest part) poor. The guys who have chosen the music is clear that they have nothing to do with the music (logical. They were scientists...)

>They decided to sent a cd to the Aliens without the Master! This could make any alien form of life hostile and aggressive! (me included) :lol: Next time they must ask for my opinion! :lol:


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

And who knows, it may be that music could repel alien invaders, ala Slim Whitman.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

That Golden Record has music, yes, but it most unwisely has instructions for finding our home planet. Once the alien armada is well-launched, I'm sure they'll call ahead for take-out. Their kitchen's motto: "We serve mankind".


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

The answer is seriously obvious, *Stockhausen* as he was one of them and was educated on Sirius


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

We are the result of a unique, endless chain of events and very specific conditions here on earth. A fluke. 
Aliens, if they're out there, would probably be very different from us, formed by a unique chain of events and specific conditions on their planet. If they can hear, I think they wouldn't know what to make of our music.
Also, I believe they're not coming to earth, because they face the same nearly insurmountable challenges and the same laws of physics.
Too serious?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Dimace said:


> I didn't know the content of this list. (thanks for the post)
> 
> Two words about it: Inadequate and artistically (to its greatest part) poor. The guys who have chosen the music is clear that they have nothing to do with the music (logical. They were scientists...)
> 
> >They decided to sent a cd to the Aliens without the Master! This could make any alien form of life hostile and aggressive! (me included) :lol: Next time they must ask for my opinion! :lol:


The selections were guided by a sort of international Political Correctness -- a desire to portray the multifaceted nature of human cultures, leaving no one out and hopelessly confusing any alien as to what we were about Another case of trying to satisfy everyone and losing complete sight of your purpose


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

KenOC said:


> That Golden Record has music, yes, but it most unwisely has instructions for finding our home planet. Once the alien armada is well-launched, I'm sure they'll call ahead for take-out. Their kitchen's motto: "We serve mankind".


I suppose it's pretty unlikely that an alien spaceship will come across a little gold disc hurtling through the vastness of the cosmos. And somewhat more likely that they happen to notice a habitable planet with the right kind of sun, emitting various artificial radio waves, etc.

In any case, I believe that if there is indeed intelligent life out there, we'll never know it.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

MarkW said:


> The selections were guided by a sort of international Political Correctness -- a desire to portray the multifaceted nature of human cultures, leaving no one out and hopelessly confusing any alien as to *what we were about* Another case of trying to satisfy everyone and losing complete sight of your purpose


What are we about?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MarkW said:


> The selections were guided by a sort of international Political Correctness -- a desire to portray the multifaceted nature of human cultures, leaving no one out and hopelessly confusing any alien as to what we were about Another case of trying to satisfy everyone and losing complete sight of your purpose


I remember one of the scientists involved in the Golden Record saying, We would have included more Bach but that would have seemed like boasting.


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## skywachr (Apr 17, 2019)

Posted to wrong these


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)




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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Hilarius this, aliens....... sounds strange.


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

apricissimus said:


> In any case, I believe that if there is indeed intelligent life out there, we'll never know it.


I have met a life-form that is neither plant nor animal . It is both powerful and intelligent . I do not consider it alien , rather , an earth loving sort . It speaks with sign-language . It seems attracted to peacefulness . Why , only last week I had a momentary visit as I was in the kitchen - just a quick blink of a hello . I suppose when these things get together they could make a crop circle in the wheat field . Mostly I don't bother imagining too much about this creature . For all my questions , I'm not indulged with answers . Patience . Become very old .


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## fliege (Nov 7, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> If aliens from space arrived on Earth (presupposes they are cognitively advanced) what would they make of our music?


The question is too poorly constrained for a meaningful answer, since we have no idea what an alien is like. A lot of us can explore a similar question directly, which is more interesting. For instance, I know nothing whatever of Indian classical music but I've heard it can be pretty complicated with a dozen different modes. I could sit down and listen to a bunch of it, form an opinion, then go on to read about it. It might not be music by a different species, but doing this would get at some of the issues you raise.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

The only space-traveling species on Proxima Centauri C, having evolved from reptilian-like ancestors, lacks tonal languages like humans because they don't have the vocal apparatus for it. Their languages rely on complex rhythmic patterns using clicks, hisses and glottal stops and so, as one would expect, their aural acuity and perceptual processing evolved to maximize the capacity for interpreting rhythmic patterns. This is why they find Bach and especially Mozart excruciatingly boring (cue Hammeredclavier to cite a prominent Centaurian composer's admiration for Wolfie ), but are intrigued by West African drumming and Indian classical music. At least that's what they request when I have them over for supper, which I do weekly because of a persistent rodent problem in the forest hereabouts. They really enjoy chipmunk or weasel on a bed of smoked ant legs and centipedes, one of my specialities.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Has no one mentioned the music of the spheres yet??


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I suppose aliens would be able to approach our cultural artifacts - including our music - as anthropologists. I imagine they would have technology to get over any sensory inability to hear our music. The expert ones might even be able to tell Mozart from Haydn. I wonder if any of them would actually _like_ our music, though. There is an analogy between our Western difficulty with music from the Indian tradition. Few of us understand it but it does seem that those who put the work into understanding it do also come to enjoy it. Would the same be true of alien students of our music?


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> There are no right answers, here, but a discussion may bring out some interesting thoughts about what makes great music great.
> 
> *If aliens from space arrived on Earth (presupposes they are cognitively advanced) what would they make of our music?* Would those who got to know much of it recognise the same composers and works that we do as the greatest? And what would we make of their music? And would eight arms give them superior abilities to play our music?
> 
> (You can skip the last question if you like.)


Well, they might be cognitively advanced but maybe they evolved without hearing apparatus and can only understand and communicate via "dancing". Imagine that!
[With thanks to Kurt Vonnegut / Breakfast of Champions]


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## Tikoo Tuba (Oct 15, 2018)

TalkingHead said:


> Well, they might be cognitively advanced but maybe they evolved without hearing apparatus and can only understand and communicate via "dancing". Imagine that!
> [With thanks to Kurt Vonnegut / Breakfast of Champions]


Yes , it is like that . The dance is geometric . Sometimes the display even looks 4d . I've seen some modern paintings that play with representing this idea .


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I'd say we're undetectable by any potential aliens who don't happen to live, or travel very, very nearby on a cosmic scale. The first radiowaves (speed of light) are still very close, also I believe they decay after a certain distance and become part of the background noise. Aliens could have spotted and observed earth, as it appeared a long time ago, but the chances they know of our presence and our wonderful music seem very slim.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A certain alien species (I won't say which, but you've heard of them) create their highest art by mixing glandular secretions with their fecal matter. The odors resulting are highly prized and give rise to emotional, esthetic, and even philosophical responses.

So far, humans seem unable to properly appreciate this kind of art, something the aliens find inexplicable.


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## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

EdwardBast said:


> Their languages rely on *complex rhythmic patterns using clicks, hisses and glottal stops *and so, as one would expect, their aural acuity and perceptual processing evolved to maximize the capacity for interpreting rhythmic patterns.


So the aliens are Glaswegians, eh?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

But the ones who have developed the intelligent life detecting machine would find us easily enough.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

not really
https://www.quora.com/How-far-do-ra...a-degree-beyond-being-possible-to-be-detected


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I think this is a parody of Close Encounters of the Third Kind or something. Got aliens!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Enthusiast said:


> There are no right answers, here, but a discussion may bring out some interesting thoughts about what makes great music great.
> 
> If aliens from space arrived on Earth (presupposes they are cognitively advanced) what would they make of our music? Would those who got to know much of it recognise the same composers and works that we do as the greatest? And what would we make of their music? And would eight arms give them superior abilities to play our music?
> 
> (You can skip the last question if you like.)


I imagine they would consider it analogous to any other animal behavior.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

KenOC said:


> A certain alien species (I won't say which, but you've heard of them) create their highest art by mixing glandular secretions with their fecal matter. The odors resulting are highly prized and give rise to emotional, esthetic, and even philosophical responses.
> 
> So far, humans seem unable to properly appreciate this kind of art, something the aliens find inexplicable.


Must add: Many humans respond to this olfactory experience with projectile vomiting. Quite a few aliens suspect that this reaction is, itself, an esthetic statement worthy of detailed analysis. In fact, a few alien universities now offer degree programs to explore just this possibility.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Must add: Many humans respond to this olfactory experience with projectile vomiting. Quite a few aliens suspect that this reaction is, itself, an esthetic statement worthy of detailed analysis. In fact, a few alien universities now offer degree programs to explore just this possibility.


It would appeal to a small, niche market on Earth, I expect.

These aliens might appreciate Earth-based artist G.G. Allin. (Do not Google him if you are on a shared computer, at work, etc.)


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