# Violin and Viola



## MoonlightSonata

Since I have already done Beethoven and Mozart, I thought I might do another highly clichéd music poll.
The abundance of viola jokes would suggest the violin, but as several people have commented (e.g. on the massive joke thread), few people actually believe these jokes.
I am curious to know if this actually means that violas are more-liked than violins.

My personal thoughts: I prefer violas. I find a C-string much more useful than an E-string. 
Violas are getting more solo work written in modern times than they have in the past, but violins are more culturally prominent. Outside classical music, hardly anyone knows much about the viola. http://www.talkclassical.com/images/smilies/sad.gif

Still, everyone has _some_ liking for it, surely, as the most underappreciated orchestra member?
I will have to wait for people to vote to find out.


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## Ingélou

I love the violin best. It can sound so sprightly on the upper strings. That said, of course, I love the viola too - and the cello - and every member of the family. Last night we encountered a viola d'amore for the first time, with six strings and six sympathetic strings, and the tone was remarkable. 
But still, if given the choice, it's the fiddle for me.


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## Taggart

Apart from a few exceptions (Brandenburg 6, some Teleman) the viola is basically an instrument supporting the harmonies or doubling the melody. The violin generally has all the "good bits". 

That makes the choice inevitable - fiddle for me!


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## hpowders

Sorry. Violin for me too.


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## Ingélou

Ooh-er - we have some phantom viola-voters though - voting without posting. The viola has edged into the lead, out of an electorate of six. Exciting!


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## hpowders

I, on the other hand, posted without voting.

I just voted.

The rum cake must be unusually potent this evening. Looked like more votes for viola.
Must be an alcohol-induced mirage.


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## Headphone Hermit

Taggart said:


> Apart from a few exceptions (Brandenburg 6, some Teleman) the viola is basically an instrument supporting the harmonies or doubling the melody. The violin generally has all the "good bits".
> 
> That makes the choice inevitable - fiddle for me!


.... and *Harold en Italie* by Berlioz, of course! (and Walton's viola concerto?)

but ... violin for me too!


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## senza sordino

You asking me? 
Violin!!


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## MoonlightSonata

Oh... It's neck and neck!
(Go viola!)


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## Krummhorn

Currently 6 to 5 in favour of the viola. 

I much prefer the overall tone of the viola. It blends quite well with the pipe organ, both in range and tonality. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the violin (my mom was a violinist for years in the Scandinavian Symphony in Detroit), but just prefer the tonal range of the viola as a personal preference. 

Kh ♫


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## Celloissimo

Headphone Hermit said:


> .... and *Harold en Italie* by Berlioz, of course! (and Walton's viola concerto?)
> 
> but ... violin for me too!


...and Bartok's Viola Concerto, and everything Hindemith ever wrote. There are a lot of viola solos in certain String Quartets like Shostakovich 8th. Bruckner's 4th the violas play an incredibly moving counter-melody in the brass chorale of the first movement.

I prefer the viola overall because of their warm and sweet tone.


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## elgar's ghost

I love the drone-like sonority of the viola - it makes for wonderfully downbeat music at times.


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## SeptimalTritone

Viola: the crunchy throatiness of the C and G strings, and the fullness of the D and A strings. The difference in tone color v.s. pitch is marked in a viola, giving it so much personality and voice as the tenor member of the string quartet.

In my opinion, the best use of the viola (beyond solo concertos or sonatas) is in the aforementioned string quartet, because its unique tone color and personality add so much.


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## PetrB

When Mozart wrote his String Quintets, he made them viola quintets, 2 vn; 2 va; vcl (vs the more expected 3 vn; 1 va; vcl).

Mozart played the fiddle, at a professional level, yet, he chose two violas for those quintets. 

Just sayin'


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## Guest

I voted for the viola simply 'coz Beethoven played that instrument as a young man in the Bonn court orchestra.


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## Guest

PetrB said:


> When Mozart wrote his String Quintets, he made them viola quintets, 2 vn; 2 va; vcl (vs the more expected 3 vn; 1 va; vcl).
> *Mozart played the fiddle, at a professional level*, yet, he chose two violas for those quintets.
> Just sayin'


Hmm, if the following citation is to believed, it seems that he was an unremarkable player :

Jens Peter Larsen suggests that "quartet playing was central to the contact between Haydn and Mozart", though the documentation of the occasions in which the two composers played or heard quartets or other chamber music together is slim. One report of such an occasion comes from the Reminiscences (1826) of the tenor Michael Kelly.

_Storace gave a quartet party to his friends. The players were tolerable; not one of them excelled on the instrument he played, but there was a little science among them, which I dare say will be acknowledged when I name them:

First Violin: Haydn
Second Violin: Baron Dittersdorf
Violoncello: Vanhal
Viola: Mozart. 
_
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haydn_and_Mozart


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## StlukesguildOhio

For me it comes down to the repertoire than exists for a given instrument. The wealth of violin concertos, sonatas, trios, quartets, partitas, etc... is staggering. I would guess that the repertoire for violin is second only to that for piano/keyboard. The repertoire for viola? I suspect the cello has more. :devil:


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## Celloissimo

The viola was Dvorak's primary instrument....it's disappointing that the instrument never found its way into his catologue as a solo instrument. 

Imagine how awesome a Dvorak Viola Concerto could have been!


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## Guest

Celloissimo said:


> The viola was Dvorak's primary instrument....it's disappointing that the instrument never found its way into his catologue as a solo instrument.
> Imagine how awesome a Dvorak Viola Concerto could have been!


We could, of course, transpose the 'cello concerto for the viola, but that would be perhaps the most 'unsexy' thing ever done to a concerto. I await a torrent of dissent and counter examples.


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## Celloissimo

Ehhh it would be like the transcription Lionel Tertis did for the Elgar Cello Concerto....it doesn't sound bad at all, but it lacks passion.


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## Guest

Celloissimo said:


> Ehhh it would be like the transcription Lionel Tertis did for the Elgar Cello Concerto....it doesn't sound bad at all, but it lacks passion.


Je vous embrasse, Celloissimo !


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## PetrB

TalkingHead said:


> We could, of course, *transpose the 'cello concerto for the viola*, but that would be perhaps the most 'unsexy' thing ever done to a concerto. I await a torrent of dissent and counter examples.


Re: the in bold... it's done often enough, and your choice of words, "most 'unsexy' thing ever done to a..." I found perfect!


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## Lunasong

My niece plays viola and, if I played a string instrument, I would probably choose it also. I'm perfectly happy to play the supporting role. I don't need to be a soloist and there's plenty of room for a good player.


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## Rhombic

Viola for me - not for the repertoire, though, since it is much less abundant than that of the violin. Just listen to it. The colour. The resonance. The pitch (this is a good point for viola>violin).


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## Andrei

Ingélou said:


> Ooh-er - we have some phantom viola-voters though - voting without posting.


Ok I'll own up - a secret viola voter. Just a better tone for my ears.


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## Barry

viola
played violin 5 years, viola is a better fit for me


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## MoonlightSonata

Yes!
Viola forever!
Now somebody tell me why the repertory is so small.


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## AmateurComposer

MoonlightSonata said:


> Since I have already done Beethoven and Mozart, I thought I might do another highly clichéd music poll.
> The abundance of viola jokes would suggest the violin, but as several people have commented (e.g. on the massive joke thread), few people actually believe these jokes.
> I am curious to know if this actually means that violas are more-liked than violins.
> 
> My personal thoughts: I prefer violas. I find a C-string much more useful than an E-string.
> Violas are getting more solo work written in modern times than they have in the past, but violins are more culturally prominent. Outside classical music, hardly anyone knows much about the viola. http://www.talkclassical.com/images/smilies/sad.gif
> 
> Still, everyone has _some_ liking for it, surely, as the most underappreciated orchestra member?
> I will have to wait for people to vote to find out.


Why the choice? Is it so hard for a player of one to also play the other?


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## Harrytjuh

My sister plays viola, so viola for me! I also like the sound more, warm and mellow rather than the screeching of the violin (or cello). It's a shame the repetoire is so small... (though there are some beautiful pieces *Bartók* *cough*)


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## MoonlightSonata

AmateurComposer said:


> Why the choice? Is it so hard for a player of one to also play the other?


Not really, but we are talking about instruments, not players. They are similar to the point of being variations on a theme, so I am asking which is preferred.
If I could only ask about instruments that were extremely different, I would get this sort of thing:
_Cello or piccolo trumpet? You decide!_
This is more a sort of brass-or-string high-or-low transposing-nontransposing question, and as such is not really quite so useful.


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## AmateurComposer

MoonlightSonata said:


> Not really, but we are talking about instruments, not players. They are similar to the point of being variations on a theme, so I am asking which is preferred.
> If I could only ask about instruments that were extremely different, I would get this sort of thing:
> _Cello or piccolo trumpet? You decide!_
> This is more a sort of brass-or-string high-or-low transposing-nontransposing question, and as such is not really quite so useful.


Are you asking about the choice between playing the instruments, or the preference in listening to each of their sound?


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## MoonlightSonata

Mainly the sound, but playing could be taken into account. I find violins very slightly too small, personally.


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## AmateurComposer

MoonlightSonata said:


> Mainly the sound, but playing could be taken into account. I find violins very slightly too small, personally.


That's not sound! That's vision!


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## MoonlightSonata

AmateurComposer said:


> That's not sound! That's vision!


I was referring to the fact that I find them (violins) slightly uncomfortable to play. I did just say that playing could be taken into account.


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## Asianerd

MoonlightSonata said:


> I was referring to the fact that I find them (violins) slightly uncomfortable to play. I did just say that playing could be taken into account.


Well, that could just well be the fact that you play Viola, and not Violin, and that has made your body more accustomed to size of a Viola.

Me? I like the Violin. Call me biased, (I probably am, but then again, the thread does say which one you 'prefer) but the Violin, first has a far more extensive and larger repertoire, meaning that I won't have as much trouble looking for something to play that isn't super ultra hard, or something really boring and repetitive, or something ridiculously easy. The E string means that you can go HIGH. Some people complain it sounds screechy, but that may just be because of their exposure to people who are still learning. And also, MoonlightSonata doesn't play the Violin and I do, so it's also kinda out of spite.


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## MoonlightSonata

Asianerd said:


> Well, that could just well be the fact that you play Viola, and not Violin, and that has made your body more accustomed to size of a Viola.
> 
> Me? I like the Violin. Call me biased, (I probably am, but then again, the thread does say which one you 'prefer) but the Violin, first has a far more extensive and larger repertoire, meaning that I won't have as much trouble looking for something to play that isn't super ultra hard, or something really boring and repetitive, or something ridiculously easy. The E string means that you can go HIGH. Some people complain it sounds screechy, but that may just be because of their exposure to people who are still learning. And also, MoonlightSonata doesn't play the Violin and I do, so it's also kinda out of spite.


As you wish, Asianerd:
"You are biased!"
Sorry, I couldn't resist that.
The C string means you can go LOW. How often have you actually heard the C-string besides when Arela and I play the viola? The A-string, in my opinion, provides all the high notes necessary.
The viola repertoire is increasing. Yes, I know, the violin one is better, but this thread is for the instruments, not the repertoire.


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## Asianerd

MoonlightSonata said:


> As you wish, Asianerd:
> "You are biased!"
> Sorry, I couldn't resist that.
> The C string means you can go LOW. How often have you actually heard the C-string besides when Arela and I play the viola? The A-string, in my opinion, provides all the high notes necessary.
> The viola repertoire is increasing. Yes, I know, the violin one is better, but this thread is for the instruments, not the repertoire.


Ja, but the repertoire is a very important element of an instrument, don't you think? What makes and shapes an instrument more than the music that is written for it? What gives an instrument it's identity more so than it's pieces that it is written for and features them? 
I hear the C string when Cellos tune. Also, when I'm playing my piano. As for the Viola's C string... when it's tuning? Not very often. What exactly are you trying to get at with that statement?


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## MoonlightSonata

Asianerd said:


> Ja, but the repertoire is a very important element of an instrument, don't you think? What makes and shapes an instrument more than the music that is written for it? What gives an instrument it's identity more so than it's pieces that it is written for and features them?
> I hear the C string when Cellos tune. Also, when I'm playing my piano. As for the Viola's C string... when it's tuning? Not very often. What exactly are you trying to get at with that statement?


The instrument affects the repertoire, but very rarely vice versa.
You hear the C-string when "Cellos" tune? Lovely. This is not about cellos.
What I am trying to say is that you are rather unfamiliar with the viola.


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## MoonlightSonata

Wait, you hear the viola's C-string when you play your piano? Wow. You must have a strange piano.


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## quack

Q: What is the difference between a dog and a viola?
A: The dog knows when to stop scratching.

Team viola for me.

They just have the perfect mellow sound, not as shrill as their younger siblings not as lugubrious as their much older sibling. Not that I don't like my fair share of shrieking from the violin but the viola just gets on with the business of being beautiful in its unassuming way. It is a pity there isn't a huge repertoire focused on the viola but then it isn't such a showoff like some other instruments we could mention. Also the viola has a dedicated genre of jokes devoted to it, yet it is still able to rise above the petty insults.

http://www.ahajokes.com/viola.html


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## Asianerd

MoonlightSonata said:


> Wait, you hear the viola's C-string when you play your piano? Wow. You must have a strange piano.


No, I mean I hear _a_ C string when I play my piano. Not a viola C string specifically.


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## MoonlightSonata

Asianerd said:


> No, I mean I hear _a_ C string when I play my piano. Not a viola C string specifically.


Then that is irrelevant.


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## Guest

I'm just posting this here for ... well, *ViolaDude* !
http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/nov/28/in-defence-of-the-viola-tabea-zimmermann


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## SeptimalTritone

TalkingHead said:


> I'm just posting this here for ... well, *ViolaDude* !
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/nov/28/in-defence-of-the-viola-tabea-zimmermann


Listening to even one well-written string quartet from any of the great masters should convince the astute listener of the essentialness of the viola.

*And I'm not talking about something like the Smetana E minor or the Dvorak American... I mean the viola as part of an ensemble, with its crunchy and throaty C string, voluminous and rich G and D strings, and breathy and wispy A string. The differing timbre produces an important element of the string quartet dialogue.


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