# Valse for piano



## Omnimusic

Hello TC members,

Here is another of my pieces (a short walz) which I wrote some years ago. It is built around a central motif, which repeatedly comes back in different variations and modulations. I would appreciate your comments and critical viewpoints.

Best regards,

The URL to the music is: http://picosong.com/TYWm


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## Pugg

Omnimusic said:


> Hello TC members,
> 
> Here is another of my pieces (a short walz) which I wrote some years ago. It is built around a central motif, which repeatedly comes back in different variations and modulations. I would appreciate your comments and critical viewpoints.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> The URL to the music is: http://picosong.com/TYxg


With the speakers on highest sound I can't almost hear a thing.


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## Omnimusic

Hello Pugg,

This is strange. I tested the playback before I posted it, and it worked fine. But I will see if I can increase the volume of the playback, and then I will post a new URL. Are other people also having this problem?


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## Omnimusic

OK Pugg, I I think that I managed to increase the volume. I removed the old URL and replased it with a new one (in the original post). But some of the loudest notes may sound distorted (above 0 dB). I don´t know how to deal with this, I am not a sound engineer.
Regards.


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## Guest

I could hear it,(barely) and it is a nice piece.In the first bars it is a bit valse triste.:tiphat:


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## Vasks

Traverso said:


> In the first bars it is a bit valse triste.:tiphat:


There's plenty of Sibelius-like harmonies throughout.

You have the makings of a true composer. The piece has a number of pleasant surprises with harmony, melody and phrasing. You clearly understand the importance to avoid literal repetition.

However, as with so many amateur composers that post here at TC, you have no individual voice. The piece while quite good has been expressed equally as well by many other composers long, long ago. Now, if that's all you want to do, fine. But if you want to be taken seriously in the musical world you have to find your own personal voice. That "world" has no use for living composers to sound exactly like those a hundred years ago.


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## zachybinx

I disagree with the previous comment. I really have no idea what your intentions are for this waltz, but whether or not this is your own voice is kind of besides the point. you wrote it, so there's obviously things about it that only you could do. in one way or another, all the classical composers share melodic traits. and Since i've never heard anything else written by you, I definitely couldn't say whether or not there are trends or reoccurring qualities which contribute to your style. anyway. It's very very nice. I like the more dramatic high points/flourishes. I bet it would sound freaking great if given a sensitive live performance. 

Also, it's not as if the world has no use for composers who write in these styles. If you need a movie score or tv show to have a waltz in the background- composers will have to write them. That happens often enough. and as for composers whose music is more "unique" and for the "serious" concert halls, the rate at which those pieces are performed suggests that there is equally less use for their music and proportionately more use for their being professors. but there's no problem with that either. I think in general the "use" for classical composers is highly overstated by composers. but this is all reallllly besides the point. 

I liked the waltz, but it was fairly short? right? Maybe it could use a whole nother b section in a contrasting key. after which it woud simply return to what youve written, in full. I think that could round it out nicely and be very refreshing/exciting.


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## zachybinx

actually, wait I just realised there is a contrasting b section! I think the midi consistensy of tempo threw me into thinking it was unified. But I hear it now, it's very clear. yeah. scrap my previous comment. I can't think of a single thing it needs. I love the subtle changes at the end. and the more cool descending high chordal stuff. That's great closing material.


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## Omnimusic

Thanks a lot Vasks for your comments. I really appreciate that you took the time for this reply.

Well, I am a pure amateur, with zero education in composing and musical theory. I only have played the piano (also on an amateur level) for a long time, and that´s all.
The issue of my “individual voice” ? I have not given this very much thought. I get new ideas all the time and just write down what I find interesting and pleasant. Quite often, I associate my music to a scenery, an event or a situation. But I was unaware of that I used Sibelius harmonies in this waltz. I had no associations to Sibelius at all (only the Sibelius score program (ha ha)). I was more thinking of a folk music dance. Interesting how these harmonies can pop up unintentionally.

To be taken seriously in the musical world? There are hundreds or rather thousands of contemporary classical composers with an extensive musical education who want to be taken seriously and are trying to become world-famous. Regardless of having “an individual voice” or not, it is obvious that I always will be looked upon as “a dilettante with no education”, and I am sufficiently self-critical to realize that it would be pathetic to aim for any recognition in this musical environment. But this is all fine for me. The only thing which is sad is that there is practically no chance that my music will ever be performed by life musicians. (Midi´s are horrible).

Best regards (and I hope that you also will review my upcoming pieces)


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## Omnimusic

zachybinx said:


> I disagree with the previous comment. I really have no idea what your intentions are for this waltz, but whether or not this is your own voice is kind of besides the point. you wrote it, so there's obviously things about it that only you could do. in one way or another, all the classical composers share melodic traits. and Since i've never heard anything else written by you, I definitely couldn't say whether or not there are trends or reoccurring qualities which contribute to your style. anyway. It's very very nice. I like the more dramatic high points/flourishes. I bet it would sound freaking great if given a sensitive live performance.
> 
> Also, it's not as if the world has no use for composers who write in these styles. If you need a movie score or tv show to have a waltz in the background- composers will have to write them. That happens often enough. and as for composers whose music is more "unique" and for the "serious" concert halls, the rate at which those pieces are performed suggests that there is equally less use for their music and proportionately more use for their being professors. but there's no problem with that either. I think in general the "use" for classical composers is highly overstated by composers. but this is all reallllly besides the point.
> 
> I liked the waltz, but it was fairly short? right? Maybe it could use a whole nother b section in a contrasting key. after which it woud simply return to what youve written, in full. I think that could round it out nicely and be very refreshing/exciting.


Thanks a lot, Zachybinx for your interesting comments,

I really did not have any particular intentions with this waltz. I had been thinking some time about ideas for folk music, and this motif popped up in my head, which I could not get rid of, so I composed this piece. It all went rather quick. Of course I am influenced by other composers! As you said, classical composers have extensively used each other´s melodies and also tonal languages. As far as my particular style is concerned, I am still in a learning phase and have written in various styles to obtain a grasp of different structures, harmonies, harmonic transitions, coherence etc. etc. But I am rather critical about my own work. I have discarded most of what I have written. I will continue to post some of the remaining ones.

I was also interested to read your comments about the " no use for composers who write in these styles". What the world has use for is actually not decided by composers, but by the rest of the world. I am always amazed about the fact that contemporary composers seem to be tone-deaf for pop music. (There is of course a lot of garbage, but there are also ingenious things).

Finally, thanks for all the positive descriptions of this piece. I feel flattered!
Best regards


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## Guest

Vasks said:


> [...] However, as with so many amateur composers that post here at TC, you have no individual voice. The piece while quite good has been expressed equally as well by many other composers long, long ago. Now, if that's all you want to do, fine. But if you want to be taken seriously in the musical world you have to find your own personal voice. That "world" has no use for living composers to sound exactly like those a hundred years ago.


First off, I think Omnimusic's _Valse_ is a fine "pastiche", and *highly competent* at that, I would say.

However, I do agree with Vasks' comment about having "an original voice". OK, there is no problem whatsoever in being an amateur composer and creating pieces that one enjoys writing that display competence in an earlier style, but as Vasks points out, where do you go from there given that the past masters have already done it?

On the other hand, there are composers (consider Alfred Schnittke, for example) who take a style and render it from a more contemporary angle and in so doing offer fresh perspectives.

In any case, I hope you, Omnimusic, continue to perfect your technique which strikes me as already quite solid! I have the feeling the more you listen and expose yourself to later composers the more you will come to find your own "true voice". I say this having in mind what I heard Brian Ferneyhough tell one of his composition students (you can probably find it on YouTube): Listen, listen, listen to as much different music as possible.


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## arnerich

TalkingHead said:


> First off, I think Omnimusic's _Valse_
> However, I do agree with Vasks' comment about having "an original voice". OK, there is no problem whatsoever in being an amateur composer and creating pieces that one enjoys writing that display competence in an earlier style, but as Vasks points out, where do you go from there given that the past masters have already done it?


The waltz is a good little piece judged on it's own merits. But coming to the conclusion "where do you go from here given that past masters have already done it?" I'd be wary of making such statements. Sweeping statements like that are like building walls and art simply has no time walls. In fact, walls tend to give artists incentive to overcome something. Given enough effort and inspiration the potential for great music is always possible under any circumstance or any style. I've always liked Schoenberg's quote regarding this

"Whether one calls oneself conservative or revolutionary, whether one composes in a conventional or progressive manner, whether one tries to imitate old styles or is destined to express new ideas - one must be convinced of the infallibility of one's own fantasy and one must believe in one's own inspiration."


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## Guest

arnerich said:


> *The waltz is a good little piece judged on it's own merits*. But coming to *the conclusion* "where do you go from here given that past masters have already done it?" I'd be wary of making such statements. *Sweeping statements like that* are like building walls and art simply has no time walls. In fact, walls tend to give artists incentive to overcome something. Given enough effort and inspiration the potential for great music is always possible under any circumstance or any style. I've always liked Schoenberg's quote regarding this
> 
> "Whether one calls oneself conservative or revolutionary, whether one composes in a conventional or progressive manner, whether one tries to imitate old styles or is destined to express new ideas - one must be convinced of the infallibility of one's own fantasy and one must believe in one's own inspiration."


I have bolded three of your points that I would like to address:
1) "The waltz is a good little piece judged on it's own merits" : *Yes, I already said that*.
2) "But coming to the conclusion..." : *I made no such conclusion; I asked a question.*
3) "Sweeping statements like that..." : *Again, I made no such sweeping statement, I asked a valid question.*

Perhaps I can make my point like this: imagine Omnimusic gets his _Valse_ programmed for a chamber music lunchtime concert, where it is featured along with an opening piano sonata by (say) Haydn, followed by (say) one of Stockhausen's Klavierstücks, followed by Omnimusic's _Valse_ and ending with (say) a late sonata by Beethoven (you can invent your own programme, of course).
After the concert, we get to overhear the following conversation between three of the paying public:

*Audience member 1*: Great recital! Didn't like that Stockhausen much, what about you?
*Audience member 2*: Yeah, I was OK with the Stockhausen, not really my cup of tea but it was interesting to hear it.
*Audience member 1*: I loved the Beethoven and the Haydn, of course. What do you make of that _Valse_ by John Omnimusic?
*Audience member 2*: Oh, I liked that! Reminded me of a cross between Schubert and Satie or Chopin or something, very nice!
*Audience member 3*: I liked that _Valse_, too. Do you think choosing a French title like "Valse" instead of saying "Waltz" was deliberate irony of some sort?

And so on...

So my point is: Would Omnimusic like to build his reputation on "sounding like composer XXX" or would he (or she, of course) prefer to be recognized for having an original, independent voice?


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## arnerich

I understand your point of view better TalkingHead. That is a question that Omnimusic, and every composer, must ask themselves.


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## zachybinx

that's the interesting thing- I personally think "Reminded me of a cross between Schubert and Satie or Chopin or something, very nice!" is really the only thing you could get from anything until you've heard multiple pieces by the composer. If I only ever heard one piece by prokofiev- I might say: wow, sounds like scriabin, beethoven and mozart had some kind of nightmare or happy trip. but after hearing multiple pieces you begin to recognize their (the composer in question's) tendencies. I don't think I really knew what the composers I like sounded like until I heard many pieces. That is of course not to say that originality does not exist on a scale or in different quantities/qualities.


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## nikola

Vasks said:


> But if you want to be taken seriously in the musical world you have to find your own personal voice. That "world" has no use for living composers to sound exactly like those a hundred years ago.


Majority of the world doesn't care about classical music at all. Taken seriously by who? By those who are making crappy commercial music today or by snobbish musicians of classical music who are mostly "searching" their own voice by copying for their whole life Bach's 300 years old fugues and stuff from other dead composers? 
He can become succesful today only if he starts to plagiarize Hans Zimmer's epic style of music that already plagiarize every 12 year old youtube user. Or he can become another Beyonce.
Most of the time people today want to hear what they already heard before and what they are familiar with.. maybe slightly changed, but still, that same thing.... just like back then some 200 years ago when all classical music sounded practically the same no matter how 'different' it was. Nobody wanted to hear Schoenberg or Philip Glass or Glenn Miller in the times when Mozart was a rock star. 
You really must be extraordinary talent to make something new that people will notice and like. You also must be promoted because even if you make great music, that doesn't mean that anyone will care.
I also hear many bloody awful and crappy music that people love and call "emotional" and "great".
Vangelis for example was original and his brilliant Blade Runner soundtrack is probably the pinnacle of his creativity and originality, yet he even doesn't know how to write music down and he doesn't care about musical theory. Anyone who makes music must enjoy in the process. Music is not mathematic even though some people like to think it is.
So, my message to the Omnimusic is - just do what you like and what you want to do. You can't and you shouldn't please everybody.
Every one of us have their own stupid philosophy about music and what it is. It's to some of us more somethng like a burden than freedom to express ourselves.


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## Omnimusic

Hello Vasks, zachybinx, TalkingHead, arnerich and nikola,

I would like to thank all of you very much for your inputs! The discussion around my piece of music was very interesting for me and I learned a lot. I will post some more things and really hope that you will continue to provide me with your comments and critical viewpoints. 
Best regards


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