# I love Haydn



## Ampersand Man

I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


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## Guest

There it is. Just enough notes.


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## kiwipolish

I recently got all his symphonies with Fischer on Brilliantclassics. Fantastic! I listened to all of them with great joy. You can get hooked on them!


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## Ampersand Man

i'd have to be crazy to listen to his presto's and like them. they are completely insane. all over the place and so ******* fast but hey it's cool.


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## Guest

I think his St Qts are his best genre, good old Papa


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## Croatia

Haydn's Cello Concerto in C - I have been listening it constantly since I first heard it, and it was long ago... 1. movement is so great, a very pleasant theme, beautiful melody and amazing virtuoso passages...


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## opus67

Wait till you hear in the one in D.


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## Moldyoldie

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


What's not to love?


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## HaydnBearstheClock

agreed 100%, Haydn is amazing.


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## chrisco97

I love Haydn myself. I will get off of his music for a little while, but once I listen to his music again I get stuck on it for days...he is so underrated IMO.


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## Vaneyes

Haydn Piano Sonatas rule! And watch for the new Feltsman release. :tiphat:


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## Adeodatus100

Haydn is awesome and great and _fun_. He's the composer who shows you it's all right actually to enjoy the music: you don't have to spend all your time furrowing your brow and stroking your beard meaningfully when you're listening to it. His piano trios make me purr.


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## Pyotr

It's easy to see where Mozart got his mojo from.


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## KenOC

Vaneyes said:


> Haydn Piano Sonatas rule! And watch for the new Feltsman release. :tiphat:


Here's something I like a lot -- and what a bargain!

http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-The-Pia..._shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373332069&sr=301-1


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## Geo Dude

I love Haydn, possibly my favorite composer. If not, he's certainly one of the top three. Definitely under-rated, but I think that is slowly changing.


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## Novelette

Geo Dude said:


> I love Haydn, possibly my favorite composer. If not, he's certainly one of the top three. Definitely under-rated, but I think that is slowly changing.


I certainly hope this is changing. He flourished in virtually every genre [although his operas are considered the weakest part of his oeuvre, and no doubt it is, I still find them to be great and highly substantial accomplishments].

Even his Baryton Trios are fascinating! I absolutely cherish Haydn, and I daily come to have even greater admiration and respect for his works.

Forgive me, my beloved Schumann, but your estimation of Haydn was very wrong as far as I'm concerned.


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## Geo Dude

Novelette said:


> Forgive me, my beloved Schumann, but your estimation of Haydn was very wrong as far as I'm concerned.


Brahms, on the other hand, appreciated Haydn and understood him quite well, I think.


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## Novelette

Geo Dude said:


> Brahms, on the other hand, appreciated Haydn and understood him quite well, I think.


Definitely! Saint-Saens appreciated him too.

Schumann had a lot of strange ideas. His frequent condemnation of Meyerbeer's music, his haughty dismissal of most of Schubert's piano sonatas, etc., etc. In terms of recognizing merit, Brahms indeed seemed to have a better head on his shoulders.

I have always been disappointed that Liszt, as far as I can ascertain, composed no fantasies or transcriptions of any of Haydn's music. It cannot be said that he had no exposure, for he frequently conducted "Die Schoepfung" and a few of the later masses. And it's not as though Haydn was lacking in material worthy of inventive variation.


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## Novelette

Oh well, far be it for me to criticize Liszt's taste! 

On a related note, Haydn seems to be used as the plummet by which to "disprove" those who appreciate Mozart. Music lovers frequently seem to be divided into a Haydn camp and a Mozart camp. This device surely has its genesis in the anti-Mozart camp who proffer Haydn as a counterargument, believing that the recognition of his own merits somehow diminishes Mozart's value.

I have never disguised the fact that I much prefer Haydn's music to Mozart's [although my relationship with Mozart has warmed considerably!], but I reject as a false dichotomy the idea that one must be party only to Haydn or Mozart. As though there is a fixed amount of value, the augmentation of one's reputation necessarily attenuates the other's claim to greatness. Haydn was a monumental figure; Mozart was also a monumental figure. I do not see why one cannot appreciate the both of them for their merits.

When I'm in a mood for Mozart, I choose Mozart.
When I'm in a mood for Haydn, I choose Haydn.

There has been no transgression against the delicate order and proper proportions of the universe when I have listened to one just after the other.

But I digress.


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## Ramako

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn.


So do I


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## Vaneyes

KenOC said:


> Here's something I like a lot -- and what a bargain!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-The-Pia..._shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373332069&sr=301-1


Ken, thanks for that. She has her own way, that I'm not totally convinced by. Generally, playing seems quite matter-of-fact. It wasn't easy for me to extract humor, that some give her credit for in these.

Close micing doesn't help. I found the atmosphere grating soon into. 9 CDs would be hard-slogging for me, for both style and sound.

For those interested in investigating, there are warmer (than Amazon) samples available at AllMusic, ArkivMusic, maybe elsewhere. The best pricing I saw was at MDT-- approx. 26 GBP excl. VAT (plus shipping), but look around. :tiphat:


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## trazom

Novelette said:


> On a related note, Haydn seems to be used as the plummet by which to "disprove" those who appreciate Mozart. Music lovers frequently seem to be divided into a Haydn camp and a Mozart camp. This device surely has its genesis in the anti-Mozart camp who proffer Haydn as a counterargument, believing that the recognition of his own merits somehow diminishes Mozart's value.


I've noticed that, and yet, many of those people seem equally ignorant of Haydn's music. Haydn's sort of the only other big name of that time period that they can latch on to.


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## Geo Dude

Novelette said:


> On a related note, Haydn seems to be used as the plummet by which to "disprove" those who appreciate Mozart. Music lovers frequently seem to be divided into a Haydn camp and a Mozart camp. This device surely has its genesis in the anti-Mozart camp who proffer Haydn as a counterargument, believing that the recognition of his own merits somehow diminishes Mozart's value.


I saw a (parody) list somewhere about how to look cool to Classical Hipsters at a party...it said to say that you like Haydn because that's the smart/cool way of saying "I like Mozart/music from the classical era" since Haydn isn't as popular and thus more likely to appeal to hipsters.

In other news, for those who don't want their Haydn on a modern piano there is this set by Beghin that meticulously reconstructs Haydn's works with historical accuracy in terms of both instruments and the sound of the rooms that they're in. Or Schornsheim's set, which unfortunately seems to be out of print. If one can't stand early to mid period Haydn on a harpsichord, Brautigam's set on fortepiano is also available.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Same here Novelette, the more I listen to Haydn, the more I love his music. I also think that you can enjoy both Haydn and Mozart but it seems to be true that there are 'camps' with these two composers, whereas Beethoven seems to be 'approved by all'. What supports the anti-camp view is that Haydn and Mozart both loved each other's music. However, if I had to choose a 'camp', it would be Haydn's .


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## Novelette

trazom said:


> I've noticed that, and yet, many of those people seem equally ignorant of Haydn's music. Haydn's sort of the only other big name of that time period that they can latch on to.


A good point! Aside from the "named" symphonies and, say, the Gypsy Rondo, many such people probably don't have much experience with Haydn's music.

Still, it's difficult for me to claim to have a high authority on a composer's works, even if I've listened to and studied a large percentage of them: every time I listen to a work, I gain a new perspective of it. I find that my impressions of works and composers are protean. With Haydn, I'm always discovering new layers of depth and creativity in his music. It's probably this "growth", this changing relationship I have with these works that keeps them eternally interesting.

Do you find that you have the same or a similar experience with music, generally?


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## Novelette

..........

[Accidental double post!]


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## Novelette

Geo Dude said:


> I saw a (parody) list somewhere about how to look cool to Classical Hipsters at a party...it said to say that you like Haydn because that's the smart/cool way of saying "I like Mozart/music from the classical era" since Haydn isn't as popular and thus more likely to appeal to hipsters.
> 
> In other news, for those who don't want their Haydn on a modern piano there is this set by Beghin that meticulously reconstructs Haydn's works with historical accuracy in terms of both instruments and the sound of the rooms that they're in. Or Schornsheim's set, which unfortunately seems to be out of print. If one can't stand early to mid period Haydn on a harpsichord, Brautigam's set on fortepiano is also available.


"Classical hipsterism"... An apt description in some cases, no doubt! We should keep our attention focused on these kinds of debates; if Haydn becomes increasingly recognized for his achievements, then perhaps the people who were proffering Haydn as the "anti-Mozart" will hold up a more obscure composer, say, Wagenseil, as the new counter-argument to the united front of "overrated Haydn and Mozart". 

Edit: I LOVE that Beghin set and I just had to order it. Thank you for mentioning it!!!


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## Novelette

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Same here Novelette, the more I listen to Haydn, the more I love his music. I also think that you can enjoy both Haydn and Mozart but it seems to be true that there are 'camps' with these two composers, whereas Beethoven seems to be 'approved by all'. What supports the anti-camp view is that Haydn and Mozart both loved each other's music. However, if I had to choose a 'camp', it would be Haydn's .


I just seems silly to restrict oneself to one or the other. We've occasionally witnessed the collision of the two camps here on TC every, but what strikes me is that the Mozart camp almost never berates Haydn! They tend to enjoy and appreciate him openly and generously. If absolutely forced to choose between the two composers, I would choose Haydn, like you.

I like what you said about the two composers liking each other's music; it's a great point!


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## Geo Dude

Novelette said:


> Edit: I LOVE that Beghin set and I just had to order it. Thank you for mentioning it!!!


Good to hear. It seems like the sort of thing that would be up some peoples' alley. Even if you don't factor in the delightful historical instruments, the whole virtual rooms thing is just mindblowing. (And the set includes a DVD that explains some of that!)


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## HaydnBearstheClock

well, I certainly know some people who avoid listening to Haydn just because Mozart 'is the better composer', which is, first of all, this person's subjective opinion, and second of all - just because I think pizza is tastier than peanuts, does that mean that I shouldn't eat any peanuts?


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## Novelette

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> well, I certainly know some people who avoid listening to Haydn just because Mozart 'is the better composer', which is, first of all, this person's subjective opinion, and second of all - just because I think pizza is tastier than peanuts, does that mean that I shouldn't eat any peanuts?


Ah, that's unfortunate that some of the Mozart listeners you've know disdain Haydn.  I've very rarely known anyone who listens to classical music at all, so that's probably why I've never known such a one. The classical listeners I have known have been the Mozart bashers, or also the types who listen only to the most famous works [Fuer Elise, Pachelbel's Canon, etc.].

Here on TC, the die-hard Mozart fans have been overwhelmingly gracious: Kieran, Bejart, Neoshredder, Hreichgott, etc. These super Mozart lovers are also major lovers of Haydn, CPE Bach, etc. 

By the way, HaydnBearstheClock: welcome to TC! :tiphat:


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## satoru

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I picked this thread for my first post with a clear reason. I love Haydn, too!

When I was young (and stupid,,,) I played Symphony No. 104 "London". At that time, I didn't fully appreciated Haydn's genius. Last year, I started to listen to Haydn again and now I'm hooked to his pieces. I went through the complete symphonies by Adam Fischer with Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, complete piano trios by Beaux Arts Trio then by Van Swieten Trio, now on string quartets, just finishing Tatrai Quartet after Kodaly Quartet. Complete sets by Aeolian Quartet and Buchberger Quartet are waiting for me. Many hours of pure joy listening to Haydn's music.

Best,
satoru


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## Declined

If I wanted to get into Haydn, where should I start? What are some good (and preferably cheap) CDs I can buy from Amazon?


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## Alypius

satoru said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to this forum and I picked this thread for my first post with a clear reason. I love Haydn, too!
> 
> When I was young (and stupid,,,) I played Symphony No. 104 "London". At that time, I didn't fully appreciated Haydn's genius. Last year, I started to listen to Haydn again and now I'm hooked to his pieces. I went through the complete symphonies by Adam Fischer with Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, complete piano trios by Beaux Arts Trio then by Van Swieten Trio, now on string quartets, just finishing Tatrai Quartet after Kodaly Quartet. Complete sets by Aeolian Quartet and Buchberger Quartet are waiting for me. Many hours of pure joy listening to Haydn's music.
> 
> Best,
> satoru


Satoru, Welcome to the forum. Before you purchase the Aeolian and Buchberger, consider getting an original-instruments ensemble performance. While it will initially sound a little different from what you are used to, it's almost always superior in warmth, clarity, and sheer vivaciousness. I strongly recommend the performances of the Quatuor Mosaiques. Simply dazzlying. While not the complete cycle, it has all the essentials (op. 20, 33, 64, 76, 77). This had been out of print for a few years but last November it was finally reissued as a box set by Naive. The recording quality is superb.










Here's some of it on YouTube:






For opus 71 and 74, try the Takacs Quartet's recent offerings:


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## Andolink

Also in the "absolutely essential" category: the Op. 9 and Op. 17 string quartets as performed by the London Haydn Quartet--


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## Alypius

Declined said:


> If I wanted to get into Haydn, where should I start? What are some good (and preferably cheap) CDs I can buy from Amazon?


It depends on your preference: chamber or orchestral. Haydn can be justly credited with inventing the string quartet. He also was pivotal in the creation of the symphony as a genre. First, you asked about "good (and preferably cheap) CDs". I'm probably not the right person because I believe in paying for good -- paying what it costs to get the best performances. I'm not a completist and don't usually do the big and cheap downloads (from the Bach Society) or the big and cheap box sets. I target the works I'm interested in and try to get the best performance I can find.

*I. **STRING QUARTETS*. Haydn's most acclaimed string quartets are the 6 found in Opus 20 and the 6 in Opus 76. The 6 in Opus 33 are arguably their equal. So that's 18 quartets off the bat. I posted above a recommendation of the Quatuor Mosaiques. Let me repeat that. They are simply outstanding. (Check out that link to YouTube to get a feel for their performances). A few years ago, I spent nearly a year slowly collecting their then-out-of-print performances from Amazon and various Amazon sellers, trying not to pay too much. And, of course, as luck would have it, as soon as I had collected them all, Naive reissued the complete set as a box set. So my recommendation: pay the money and get some of the best string quartets in the entire repertoire by a virtuoso ensemble. If you enjoy those, check out the London Haydn Quartet's performance of Opus 9 and 17 (which Andolink wisely recommended), as well as the Takacs Quartet's performance of Opus 71 and 74 (which I earlier recommended).

*II. SYMPHONIES*. The most famous of Haydn's symphonies are the final ones, #93-#104, the so-called "London Symphonies." The most famous performance of those is by Colin Davis and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, available in two two-fer by Phillips. But be sure and explore original instrument performances such as those by Frans Bruggen. Here's a story on National Public Radio discussing them:
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/18/104010890/haydns-finest-for-london

The other famous set is the "Sturm und Drang" ("Storm and Stress"), basically Symphonies #35-52. One of the widely acclaimed version of these is by Trevor Pinnock & the English Consort.

















This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are the "Paris" Symphonies; there are loads of great piano sonatas; there are fascinating piano trios. And then there are the great religious works: The Masses, the Creation. Enough for now. Hope that helps. And I hope others jump in and recommend their favorites. Haydn is joy and a vast realm. Enjoy.


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## Declined

Alypius said:


> It depends on your preference: chamber or orchestral. Haydn can be justly credited with inventing the string quartet. He also was pivotal in the creation of the symphony as a genre. First, you asked about "good (and preferably cheap) CDs". I'm probably not the right person because I believe in paying for good -- paying what it costs to get the best performances. I'm not a completist and don't usually do the big and cheap downloads (from the Bach Society) or the big and cheap box sets. I target the works I'm interested in and try to get the best performance I can find.
> 
> *I. **STRING QUARTETS*. Haydn's most acclaimed string quartets are the 6 found in Opus 20 and the 6 in Opus 76. The 6 in Opus 33 are arguably their equal. So that's 18 quartets off the bat. I posted above a recommendation of the Quatuor Mosaiques. Let me repeat that. They are simply outstanding. (Check out that link to YouTube to get a feel for their performances). A few years ago, I spent nearly a year slowly collecting their then-out-of-print performances from Amazon and various Amazon sellers, trying not to pay too much. And, of course, as luck would have it, as soon as I had collected them all, Naive reissued the complete set as a box set. So my recommendation: pay the money and get some of the best string quartets in the entire repertoire by a virtuoso ensemble. If you enjoy those, check out the London Haydn Quartet's performance of Opus 9 and 17 (which Andolink wisely recommended), as well as the Takacs Quartet's performance of Opus 71 and 74 (which I earlier recommended).
> 
> *II. SYMPHONIES*. The most famous of Haydn's symphonies are the final ones, #93-#104, the so-called "London Symphonies." The most famous performance of those is by Colin Davis and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, available in two two-fer by Phillips. But be sure and explore original instrument performances such as those by Frans Bruggen. Here's a story on National Public Radio discussing them:
> http://www.npr.org/2011/07/18/104010890/haydns-finest-for-london
> 
> The two other famous sets are the "Sturm und Drang" ("Storm and Stress"), basically Symphonies #35-52. One of the widely acclaimed version of these is by Trevor Pinnock & the English Consort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is only the tip of the iceberg. Hope that helps. And I hope others jump in and recommend their favorites. Haydn is joy and a vast realm. Enjoy.


Great. Thanks. I'll start listening more in depth tomorrow and tell you what I think.


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## violadude

Alypius said:


> Here's some of it on YouTube:


Wow! I just had a major eargasm! What a great sound that recording has!!!


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## neoshredder

I love Mozart and Beethoven.


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## Declined

Yes. I like Haydn. Very elegant. It's clear that he had immeasurable influence on later classical music(in the broad sense of the word).


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## hpowders

I love Haydn. He is my favorite composer....but then I listen to Mozart's Ave Verum Corpus, K618, and I'm not so sure.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I think the Buchberger Quartet is also a period performance ensemble . However, they have quite a specific sound - they focus on Haydn's wit and have a very 'agile' way of performing together. Their tempi are often quicker than in most other Ensembles but they always manage to get all the fine details across. You can definitely hear that they have been playing and perfecting the quartets for years now, which they also state in the liner notes. Their sound can come across as a bit 'thin' because of their instruments but I've enjoyed all of their recordings so far. Their Op. 33 is very good! The Op. 54/55 are also very well interpreted.

Haydn is my favourite composer as well.


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## hpowders

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I think the Buchberger Quartet is also a period performance ensemble . However, they have quite a specific sound - they focus on Haydn's wit and have a very 'agile' way of performing together. Their tempi are often quicker than in most other Ensembles but they always manage to get all the fine details across. You can definitely hear that they have been playing and perfecting the quartets for years now, which they also state in the liner notes. Their sound can come across as a bit 'thin' because of their instruments but I've enjoyed all of their recordings so far. Their Op. 33 is very good! The Op. 54/55 are also very well interpreted.
> 
> *Haydn is my favourite composer as well.*


Well then, we should find a classical music forum and tell the "world" about it!


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## Blake

Haydn's pretty groovy. In my top 3... right behind the Wolf.


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## satoru

Hi Alypius,

Thanks a lot for the welcome and nice suggestions on the string quartets. To be honest, Quatuor Mosaiques' Haydn set is on my wish list (listened to library copies of Op 76 and Op 20). Also I'm looking forward for Haydn sets by Salomon Quartet and Festetics Quartet. I got Aeolian and Buchberger sets just because I got deals I couldn't pass by. Takacs Quartet is coming to my home town and going to play Haydn. Maybe I should get a ticket (or two if I can drag my wife or one of my kids).

Best,
satoru


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## Andolink

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I think the Buchberger Quartet is also a period performance ensemble


I've got them playing Ernst Toch's string quartets 11 and 13 on modern instruments and I know they perform Schoenberg and Reger quartets too. If they play period instruments for their Haydn performances that's quite interesting.


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## hpowders

Be sure you like the wiry sound of gut strings. It's an acquired taste, the sounds produced by the Quatuor Mosaique.

If you love the Tokyo Quartet's playing, the QM may not make you happy.


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## satoru

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I think the Buchberger Quartet is also a period performance ensemble . However, they have quite a specific sound - they focus on Haydn's wit and have a very 'agile' way of performing together. Their tempi are often quicker than in most other Ensembles but they always manage to get all the fine details across. You can definitely hear that they have been playing and perfecting the quartets for years now, which they also state in the liner notes. Their sound can come across as a bit 'thin' because of their instruments but I've enjoyed all of their recordings so far. Their Op. 33 is very good! The Op. 54/55 are also very well interpreted.
> 
> Haydn is my favourite composer as well.


Hi HaydnBearstheClock,

I checked the document on the CDROM in the set, and found that the viola is made in 1990. All other instruments are made in middle of 18th century, though. So, they are a HIP (Historically Informed Performance) group as you say, right? You can find a detailed review on other forum (ArkivMusci, to be precise: am I allowed to link other sites here? Oh well, I should read the rules and FAQ in more details...)

While going through the CDs on the book "1001 Classical Recordings You Must Hear Before You Die", I (finally) realized that Haydn is a turning point in the Western music. With Haydn, suddenly many of the standard repertoire in classical music appear. Symphonies and string quartets with 4 movements, piano trios, sonata form, to name a few. It is a sheer amusement and joy to listen through his long years of productivity...

Thanks,
satoru


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## Novelette

satoru said:


> Hi Alypius,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the welcome and nice suggestions on the string quartets. To be honest, Quatuor Mosaiques' Haydn set is on my wish list (listened to library copies of Op 76 and Op 20). Also I'm looking forward for Haydn sets by Salomon Quartet and Festetics Quartet. I got Aeolian and Buchberger sets just because I got deals I couldn't pass by. Takacs Quartet is coming to my home town and going to play Haydn. Maybe I should get a ticket (or two if I can drag my wife or one of my kids).
> 
> Best,
> satoru


Quatour Mosaiques is the gold standard in my book. Especially with Haydn!


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## hpowders

Not for people who dislike the wiry gut string sound of period string instruments. What you like, will not be adored by everyone else, especially those who are accustomed to the sweet sounds of the likes of the Tokyo and Emerson Quartets.


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## Novelette

hpowders said:


> Not for people who dislike the wiry gut string sound of period string instruments. What you like, may not be for others.


Indeed, hence I carefully said _in my book_. :tiphat:


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## hpowders

Novelette said:


> Indeed, hence I carefully said _in my book_. :tiphat:


Kind of vague. Folks not familiar with original instruments may be shocked by the thin wiry sounds they may be hearing for the first time. I, myself like the QM. But I've been listening to period performances for years.

Especially with classical period chamber music, anyone coming to unfamiliar performances should audition first before buying, if possible.

For those who don't care for period Haydn, I recommend the assortment of great quartets performed with astonishing virtuosity by the Emerson Quartet.

Why the Emerson has yet to record the complete Opus 76, remains a mystery.


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## Andolink

"Even ensembles which, like ours, opt for performing Haydn's works-now over two centuries old-*on modern instruments* cannot easily ignore the contributions of historical performance practice."--

from the notes, written by Professor Hubert Buchberger, contained in the box set of the Buchberger's complete quartet cycle.


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## hpowders

Some modern groups don't ignore period contributions. They use modern instruments along with period performing practices.

The AOSMITF under Neville Marriner was keen at incorporating limited vibrato, playing grace notes on the beat and performing trills from the upper note when performing Haydn and Mozart.


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## hreichgott

hpowders said:


> the wiry gut string sound of period string instruments


As opposed to.... the gutsy wire string sound of modern string instruments?


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## hpowders

hreichgott said:


> As opposed to.... the gutsy wire string sound of modern string instruments?


Ahhh! Listen to the Emerson or Tokyo; then to the QM. Some folks accustomed to the former simply aren't going to like the tone production of the latter, especially minus vibrato.


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## millionrainbows

I had a difficult time getting into Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, and any "simple" classical music. The simplicity of it was beyond my grasp. I was unable to play it on piano, and I simply could not relate to this harmonic lightness and simple elegance. It took me years to finally 'get' what it was all about. I guess I had been blinded by listening to too much jazz, modernism, and progressive rock.

Finally, after about seven years of heavy glue-sniffing and a 5-year stint in prison, I finally get it.


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## Blake

millionrainbows said:


> I had a difficult time getting into Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, and any "simple" classical music. The simplicity of it was beyond my grasp. I was unable to play it on piano, and I simply could not relate to this harmonic lightness and simple elegance. It took me years to finally 'get' what it was all about. I guess I had been blinded by listening to too much jazz, modernism, and progressive rock.
> 
> Finally, after about seven years of heavy glue-sniffing and a 5-year stint in prison, I finally get it.


I think that's Mozart and Haydn's big secret. Plenty of glue.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

satoru said:


> Hi HaydnBearstheClock,
> 
> I checked the document on the CDROM in the set, and found that the viola is made in 1990. All other instruments are made in middle of 18th century, though. So, they are a HIP (Historically Informed Performance) group as you say, right? You can find a detailed review on other forum (ArkivMusci, to be precise: am I allowed to link other sites here? Oh well, I should read the rules and FAQ in more details...)
> 
> While going through the CDs on the book "1001 Classical Recordings You Must Hear Before You Die", I (finally) realized that Haydn is a turning point in the Western music. With Haydn, suddenly many of the standard repertoire in classical music appear. Symphonies and string quartets with 4 movements, piano trios, sonata form, to name a few. It is a sheer amusement and joy to listen through his long years of productivity...
> 
> Thanks,
> satoru


I could not agree more. Haydn has incredible variety and quality in all the genres he composed in. I could listen to his music for ages without ever getting tired of it.


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## Alypius

satoru said:


> Hi Alypius,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the welcome and nice suggestions on the string quartets. To be honest, Quatuor Mosaiques' Haydn set is on my wish list (listened to library copies of Op 76 and Op 20)... Takacs Quartet is coming to my home town and going to play Haydn. Maybe I should get a ticket (or two if I can drag my wife or one of my kids).
> 
> Best,
> satoru


satoru, If the Takacs are coming to town, buy tickets (and drag both wife and child! I saw them a couple of months ago playing the complete cycle of the Bartok string quartets in a pair of concerts. One of the finest classical concert experiences I have ever had. I'm sure that their Haydn will be excellent. They are one of the great classical ensembles in the world.


----------



## satoru

millionrainbows said:


> I had a difficult time getting into Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, and any "simple" classical music. The simplicity of it was beyond my grasp. I was unable to play it on piano, and I simply could not relate to this harmonic lightness and simple elegance. It took me years to finally 'get' what it was all about. I guess I had been blinded by listening to too much jazz, modernism, and progressive rock.
> 
> Finally, after about seven years of heavy glue-sniffing and a 5-year stint in prison, I finally get it.


The other day, when I donated some CDs to local library, the librarian told me "No young people likes Haydn. I takes years of experience to finally appreciate Haydn's music." Well, we are both on the same boat. It took me 50 years of wondering on earth before Haydn's music suddenly found it's place in my mind. Yours is way shorter than that 

Best,


----------



## satoru

Alypius said:


> satoru, If the Takacs are coming to town, buy tickets (and drag both wife and child! I saw them a couple of months ago playing the complete cycle of the Bartok string quartets in a pair of concerts. One of the finest classical concert experiences I have ever had. I'm sure that their Haydn will be excellent. They are one of the great classical ensembles in the world.


OK, I'll try to do that! The kids say "no more opera!" but haven't said "no more string quartets!" yet. I'll see.


----------



## millionrainbows

Vesuvius said:


> I think that's Mozart and Haydn's big secret. Plenty of glue.


Gotta keep that wig on.


----------



## ArtMusic

Haydn is one of those *truely great composers* - his music was loved by his public, his patron during his own time *and* never really forgotten every since the man died. Now that's definitely one empirical factor for any composer to be regarded as great.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

ArtMusic said:


> Haydn is one of those *truely great composers* - his music was loved by his public, his patron during his own time *and* never really forgotten every since the man died. Now that's definitely one empirical factor for any composer to be regarded as great.


ArtMusic, the Godzilla's destroying dude .


----------



## SONNET CLV

You love Haydn? Good for you. I do, too.

I have an especial tie to Haydn, whom I celebrate as "my favorite composer," significantly because of his particular birth day -- March 31. My habit for many years on March 31 has been to listen to the Haydn symphony which by number matches my own age. I won't say what that is this year, but I am well into the deeper layers of my various "Complete Haydn Symphonies" box sets.

Haydn wrote 104 symphonies. Though I do have a few years remaining (I hope), I have already begun to contemplate what I will do in my 105th year. I suspect I will simply start over, with Symphony No. 1. Time will tell.

What I treasure most about Haydn, the consummate craftsman whose natural genius propelled his composition to higher levels than he probably consciously ever set out to achieve, was his overt sense of humor. Sure, Hadyn wrote some of the most profound music ever penned, but I cannot think of another composer who instills so much comic playfulness into his work. That, for me, is why Haydn's music always draws a smile to my face. Haydn must have enjoyed being Haydn -- being the guy who wrote Haydn's music, because that music is by nature so positively optimistic in its artfulness.

Heck ... I wish he had written 204 symphonies, at least, and that I could enjoy each one of them on March 31st for many many years to come. Haydn's music is one of those things that makes being alive such a joy.


----------



## hpowders

My birthday is March 26th, yet undeterred, Haydn is still my favorite composer.

I suggest the 6 late masses to anyone unfamiliar with them.


----------



## hpowders

satoru said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to this forum and I picked this thread for my first post with a clear reason. I love Haydn, too!
> 
> When I was young (and stupid,,,) I played Symphony No. 104 "London". At that time, I didn't fully appreciated Haydn's genius. Last year, I started to listen to Haydn again and now I'm hooked to his pieces. I went through the complete symphonies by Adam Fischer with Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, complete piano trios by Beaux Arts Trio then by Van Swieten Trio, now on string quartets, just finishing Tatrai Quartet after Kodaly Quartet. Complete sets by Aeolian Quartet and Buchberger Quartet are waiting for me. Many hours of pure joy listening to Haydn's music.
> 
> Best,
> satoru


You are just the person we need around here. I love Haydn too! You don't mention Haydn's 6 late masses. Are you familiar with them? Terrific music!


----------



## satoru

hpowders said:


> You are just the person we need around here. I love Haydn too! You don't mention Haydn's 6 late masses. Are you familiar with them? Terrific music!


Hi hpowder,

Thank you very much for your kind words. I enjoy your posts as we run into each other maybe due to the similarity in the musical taste  For the masses, I'm waiting for the Hickox's complete mass edition to arrive. Oh, I can't wait!

Best,


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

satoru said:


> Hi hpowder,
> 
> Thank you very much for your kind words. I enjoy your posts as we run into each other maybe due to the similarity in the musical taste  For the masses, I'm waiting for the Hickox's complete mass edition to arrive. Oh, I can't wait!
> 
> Best,


Ah, the masses are excellent, I find them both very accessible but at the same time full of profound moments. Some of Haydn's best work, imo.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

SONNET CLV said:


> You love Haydn? Good for you. I do, too.
> 
> I have an especial tie to Haydn, whom I celebrate as "my favorite composer," significantly because of his particular birth day -- March 31. My habit for many years on March 31 has been to listen to the Haydn symphony which by number matches my own age. I won't say what that is this year, but I am well into the deeper layers of my various "Complete Haydn Symphonies" box sets.
> 
> Haydn wrote 104 symphonies. Though I do have a few years remaining (I hope), I have already begun to contemplate what I will do in my 105th year. I suspect I will simply start over, with Symphony No. 1. Time will tell.
> 
> What I treasure most about Haydn, the consummate craftsman whose natural genius propelled his composition to higher levels than he probably consciously ever set out to achieve, was his overt sense of humor. Sure, Hadyn wrote some of the most profound music ever penned, but I cannot think of another composer who instills so much comic playfulness into his work. That, for me, is why Haydn's music always draws a smile to my face. Haydn must have enjoyed being Haydn -- being the guy who wrote Haydn's music, because that music is by nature so positively optimistic in its artfulness.
> 
> Heck ... I wish he had written 204 symphonies, at least, and that I could enjoy each one of them on March 31st for many many years to come. Haydn's music is one of those things that makes being alive such a joy.


Very well said, Sonnet CLV!


----------



## hpowders

satoru said:


> Hi hpowder,
> 
> Thank you very much for your kind words. I enjoy your posts as we run into each other maybe due to the similarity in the musical taste  For the masses, I'm waiting for the Hickox's complete mass edition to arrive. Oh, I can't wait!
> 
> Best,


May I recommend Helmuth Rilling's performances to you? 3 CD's. All the late masses in extroverted performances. In my humble opinion, the performances are all excellent.


----------



## hpowders

satoru said:


> The other day, when I donated some CDs to local library, the librarian told me "No young people likes Haydn. I takes years of experience to finally appreciate Haydn's music." Well, we are both on the same boat. It took me 50 years of wondering on earth before Haydn's music suddenly found it's place in my mind. Yours is way shorter than that
> 
> Best,


Nothing is absolute. She didn't interview all the young people on the planet.

There should be at least one young person who likes Haydn, right, hopefully?

Please come forward and identify yourself! Senile minds demand to know!!


----------



## Oliver

I read your username wrong at first.


----------



## hpowders

I love Haydn in the summer, when it sizzles, 

I love Haydn in the autumn when it drizzles.


----------



## bigshot

satoru said:


> The other day, when I donated some CDs to local library, the librarian told me "No young people likes Haydn.


I would imagine the librarian said "No young people LIKE Haydn."


----------



## satoru

bigshot said:


> I would imagine the librarian said "No young people LIKE Haydn."


Oops. You are right. Sigh. Now I can get my grammar corrected here, too, not only at home by kids. Will I fail an exam? Maybe...


----------



## Serge

Jeez. How old the "old" people are?


----------



## hpowders

bigshot said:


> I would imagine the librarian said "No young people LIKE Haydn."


Well if on the telly from the World Cup, I hear "Argentina win!!" and "Brazil lose!"" I imagine Satoru can post what he _likes!_


----------



## hpowders

How old? I still have Haydn's autograph up in the attic somewhere.


----------



## scastrejon

Haydn was the first great composer I began to love when I was 16. Before, I had listen to a bunch of works by Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Schubert.
Haydn was a revelation for me (as Bruckner was some 10 years later).
I don't have any serious musical studies.

For the time being (I am 34) I have never found any other composer whose works I can listen to over and over again (except for some Bach's tenor arias). Every single time Haydn's music sound fresh, I cannot say it sounds "new" or I can find something new each time I listen to the same symphony or string quartet or batyton octet again, but it sounds fresh always, and interesting, and compelling, their works have a subtle emotional appeal that it's very hard to me to identify in other composers, albeit the simplicity or many of them when we have a look at the score.


----------



## hpowders

One of the first pieces of classical music I ever heard when I was about 7 or 8 was the Haydn Surprise symphony with the Concertgebouw conducted by Eduard van Beinum on a London LP.
Loved it at first hearing.


----------



## DonAlfonso

hpowders said:


> One of the first pieces of classical music I ever heard when I was about 7 or 8 was the Haydn Surprise symphony with the Concertgebouw conducted by Eduard van Beinum on a London LP.
> Loved it at first hearing.


I love Mozart and Haydn both. I'm surprised no one has recommended his Trumpet Concerto in E flat major, one of the first pieces written for the newly invented keyed trumpet and still one of the best.


----------



## hpowders

DonAlfonso said:


> I love Mozart and Haydn both. I'm surprised no one has recommended his Trumpet Concerto in E flat major, one of the first pieces written for the newly invented keyed trumpet and still one of the best.


Yes. The Haydn Trumpet concerto is a great piece.

My favorite Haydn remains the Paris and London Symphonies plus The Creation and a couple of the late masses.


----------



## MoonlightSonata

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


I love Haydn too.
Shame his wife didn't.


----------



## Esterhazy

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


So do I, and thank goodness for the patronage of the Esterhazy!


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Esterhazy said:


> So do I, and thank goodness for the patronage of the Esterhazy!


For sure, the masterpieces never end with Haydn .


----------



## hpowders

Those who find this thread stimulating, and do not know the composer discussed within these walls, I say to you:

*HAYDN GO SEEK! *:tiphat:


----------



## JLi

Me too! (Filler text here to lengthen the message)


----------



## JeffD

As a kid I was assigned to write a report on Haydn. I had never heard of him and was very put off by the assignment. I half thought the name was made up.


----------



## Pugg

JLi said:


> Me too! (Filler text here to lengthen the message)


You are learning fast.  I like his music too.


----------



## hpowders

OP: I love Joseph Haydn too. I like his piano sonatas better than Mozart's; his Paris Symphonies better than any by Beethoven and his Creation and Seven Last Words of Christ (string quartet version) leave me speechless!!

All in all, I rank Haydn number two of the greatest composers right behind the incomparable J.S. Bach.

Haydn was ranked as the greatest composer in Europe during much of his lifetime, with good reason!!!


----------



## jdec

I love Haydn too, but would not go that far as to say he's a top 3 composer. He's certainly not a Mozart, Beethoven or Bach.


----------



## poconoron

For me, Haydn ranks in my top 5 favorite composers as follows:

Mozart
Beethoven
JS Bach
Haydn
Handel


----------



## Gallus

I've been listening to Haydn's symphonies recently, so many forgotten gems. His 39th is great.


----------



## Pugg

Gallus said:


> I've been listening to Haydn's symphonies recently, so many forgotten gems. His 39th is great.


Do you have a favourite recording/ conductor? I like the Dorati set very much.


----------



## Gallus

Pugg said:


> Do you have a favourite recording/ conductor? I like the Dorati set very much.


Can't say that I've listened to many so feel free to ignore, but my current favourites are Trevor Pinnock for the Sturm und Drang symphonies and Leonard Bernstein for the Paris and London symphonies.


----------



## Haydn man

I feel uplifted listening to Haydn, there is great wit and originality in his work
I can heartlly recommend the Dorati symphony cycle for consistency and quality. It was a landmark recording achievement and has stood the test of time well 
That said I also have the Pinnock Sturm und Drang set and these are good HIP performances


----------



## KenOC

Haydn man said:


> I feel uplifted listening to Haydn, there is great wit and originality in his work
> I can heartlly recommend the Dorati symphony cycle for consistency and quality. It was a landmark recording achievement and has stood the test of time well
> That said I also have the Pinnock Sturm und Drang set and these are good HIP performances


If you're an Amazon Prime member, you can add the complete Dorati cycle to your Amazon music library and stream it for free.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001LMSOGI/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=


----------



## Jacck

I must admit that I have been avoiding Haydn so far. The guy just wrote too much of everything and I do not want to listen to 100 symphonies and 100 string quartets which all sound very similar to each other (superfial first impression). But I will come to him eventually


----------



## Haydn man

Jacck said:


> I must admit that I have been avoiding Haydn so far. The guy just wrote too much of everything and I do not want to listen to 100 symphonies and 100 string quartets which all sound very similar to each other (superfial first impression). But I will come to him eventually


At present I feel the loss is all yours, but when you give Haydn time much pleasure awaits


----------



## Haydn man

KenOC said:


> If you're an Amazon Prime member, you can add the complete Dorati cycle to your Amazon music library and stream it for free.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001LMSOGI/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=


Have had the set for several years, but I do use Spotify and thanks to the posters here on TC I have used streaming to explore alternatives for many Symphonies


----------



## Jacck

Haydn man said:


> At present I feel the loss is all yours, but when you give Haydn time much pleasure awaits


a which 3 pieces are considered his best works to start with? I've been eyeing his Creation for some time.


----------



## Blancrocher

Jacck said:


> a which 3 pieces are considered his best works to start with? I've been eyeing his Creation for some time.


Fwiw, some recommendations: late piano sonatas performed by great pianists (I'd start with Pogorelich's classic short album with Hob. 46 & 19), the op. 76 string quartets (Tokyo SQ), and the Paris Symphonies (Bernstein; my personal favorite from the set is "The Hen," even though it's ridiculous in the way the name implies).


----------



## newyorkconversation

Jacck said:


> a which 3 pieces are considered his best works to start with?


With the quartets, Op.76 is probably the peak set, but I would suggest beginning with Op.20, which really "created" the quartet as a genre. Each of these Opii is comprised of six quartets.

For symphonies either the London set or the Paris set.

Perhaps characteristically of a budding Haydn fan, I am unfortunately unable to narrow these recommendations any further ; )


----------



## Gottfried

I listen to the works of Haydn more than to those of any other composer. If, assuredly, this is partly because there is such an extensive range from which to choose, it is principally because of the qualities of the works themselves. Rarely less than excellent, they yet manage, almost miraculously, to combine such diverse elements: freshness and experimental spontaneity, warmth, charm, variegation of mood, richness of personality – while yet maintaining such underlying seriousness of purpose, dignity of execution, structural integrity, and realisation of form.

To think that all those marvellous slow movements, by turns, stately, or poignant, or wistfully melancholic, are yet written by the same hand that can conjure such a joyous lightness of touch. 

If I am suffering any kind of disequilibrium whereby my musical sensitivities are frayed, Haydn is the composer to whom I almost invariably turn, for his work seems to compass much of what I might seek from other composers but in such measure as to avoid their various excesses. Haydn is as a composer amiable, convivial even, but still reflective, ironic, acute. His is in many ways the friendliest of music, but friendship in its more substantial forms, capable both of humour and of gravity.


----------



## Captainnumber36

Haydn puts me in a good mood! So does Mozart, but in a different way.


----------



## hpowders

Gottfried said:


> I listen to the works of Haydn more than to those of any other composer. If, assuredly, this is partly because there is such an extensive range from which to choose, it is principally because of the qualities of the works themselves. Rarely less than excellent, they yet manage, almost miraculously, to combine such diverse elements: freshness and experimental spontaneity, warmth, charm, variegation of mood, richness of personality - while yet maintaining such underlying seriousness of purpose, dignity of execution, structural integrity, and realisation of form.
> 
> To think that all those marvellous slow movements, by turns, stately, or poignant, or wistfully melancholic, are yet written by the same hand that can conjure such a joyous lightness of touch.
> 
> If I am suffering any kind of disequilibrium whereby my musical sensitivities are frayed, Haydn is the composer to whom I almost invariably turn, for his work seems to compass much of what I might seek from other composers but in such measure as to avoid their various excesses. Haydn is as a composer amiable, convivial even, but still reflective, ironic, acute. His is in many ways the friendliest of music, but friendship in its more substantial forms, capable both of humour and of gravity.


For me Haydn ranks at number two, right after Bach.

Lately I have been listening to Haydn's music more than any other composer's.

In particular, the Paris and London Symphonies; the complete Piano Sonatas; The Creation and Seven Last Words-the String Quartet version.

I never tire of the magnificent Haydn!!!


----------



## jdec

I love Haydn too. History has put him in his proper place (not a top 3 place though).


----------



## hpowders

poconoron said:


> For me, Haydn ranks in my top 5 favorite composers as follows:
> 
> Mozart
> Beethoven
> JS Bach
> Haydn
> Handel


Same with me. I rate Haydn in my top three, along with Bach and Mozart.


----------



## Pugg

jdec said:


> I love Haydn too. History has put him in his proper place (not a top 3 place though).


Now we are curious who are on spot 1 and 2


----------



## hpowders

Haydn's Complete Piano Sonatas are highly underrated, except for the last three or four, which to me are not as fine as Haydn's middle period sonatas that he composed in his 30's-40's.


----------



## hpowders

Gottfried said:


> *I listen to the works of Haydn more than to those of any other composer*. If, assuredly, this is partly because there is such an extensive range from which to choose, it is principally because of the qualities of the works themselves. Rarely less than excellent, they yet manage, almost miraculously, to combine such diverse elements: freshness and experimental spontaneity, warmth, charm, variegation of mood, richness of personality - while yet maintaining such underlying seriousness of purpose, dignity of execution, structural integrity, and realisation of form.
> 
> To think that all those marvellous slow movements, by turns, stately, or poignant, or wistfully melancholic, are yet written by the same hand that can conjure such a joyous lightness of touch.
> 
> If I am suffering any kind of disequilibrium whereby my musical sensitivities are frayed, Haydn is the composer to whom I almost invariably turn, for his work seems to compass much of what I might seek from other composers but in such measure as to avoid their various excesses. Haydn is as a composer amiable, convivial even, but still reflective, ironic, acute. His is in many ways the friendliest of music, but friendship in its more substantial forms, capable both of humour and of gravity.


So do I! Delightful, witty, clever music of extreme genius.

Even Haydn's minor key works such as the Symphony No. 95 in C minor don't stay in minor for long. He always finds a way to quickly and brilliantly modulate to the major.

The man was a musical extrovert!


----------



## jdec

Pugg said:


> Now we are curious who are on spot 1 and 2


I believe Bach, Mozart and Beethoven (in any order) are very commonly regarded as the 3 greatest composers ever. I certainly don't disagree with that.


----------



## Star

Who could not love Haydn? The Cteation is marvellous. He was unfortunate to be compared with the even greater genius of Mozart.


----------



## hpowders

jdec said:


> I believe Bach, Mozart and Beethoven (in any order) are very commonly regarded as the 3 greatest composers ever. I certainly don't disagree with that.


Correct, except substitute Haydn for Beethoven. Minor error; easily rectified.


----------



## hpowders

Star said:


> Who could not love Haydn? The Cteation is marvellous. He was unfortunate to be compared with the even greater genius of Mozart.


The Paris Symphonies; the London Symphonies; the complete Piano Sonatas; the Late Masses; the String Quartets; Piano Trios....

Awesome!!!


----------



## jdec

hpowders said:


> Correct, except substitute Haydn for Beethoven. Minor error; easily rectified.


Not that easy. We would have to "rectify" the vast majority of polls out there that don't include papa Haydn in the top 3. 

And yes, many of the other Haydn works you mention in your post above are awesome.


----------



## hpowders

jdec said:


> Not that easy. We would have to "rectify" *the vast majority of polls out there that don't include papa Haydn **in the top* 3.
> 
> And yes, many of the other Haydn works you mention in your post above are awesome.


The power of suggestion. Folks come here and all they see is Beethoven, Beethoven, Beethoven.

So group think takes over and the brainwashing is complete.

It's tragic!

However, I still manage to sleep well at night, despite this.


----------



## KenOC

hpowders said:


> The power of suggestion. Folks come here and all they see is Beethoven, Beethoven, Beethoven.
> 
> So group think takes over and the brainwashing is complete.
> 
> It's tragic!
> 
> However, I still manage to sleep well at night, despite this.


Beethoven built those fine mansions overlooking the sea. But this is not to slight Haydn, who did a fine job with the latrines used during construction.


----------



## Pugg

jdec said:


> I believe Bach, Mozart and Beethoven (in any order) are very commonly regarded as the 3 greatest composers ever. I certainly don't disagree with that.


Thank you for clearing this up. :tiphat:


----------



## Star

jdec said:


> I believe Bach, Mozart and Beethoven (in any order) are very commonly regarded as the 3 greatest composers ever. I certainly don't disagree with that.


You can certainly believe this and still enjoy Haydn and lots of other composers. Thank goodness music loving is not exclusive


----------



## jdec

Star said:


> You can certainly believe this and still enjoy Haydn and lots of other composers. Thank goodness music loving is not exclusive


Yep, that's exactly what I have always done.


----------



## Foth

Would anyone like to recommend specific recordings of Haydn's Piano Sonatas? I've noticed that Paul Lewis and Jean-Efflam Bavouzet have recent releases; any opinions on those?


----------



## JayBee

I think the easiest solution to who should belong in the top three is either...
a) decide to make it a top four
b) call it a tie between Haydn and either Mozart or Beethoven

Either way, we can claim a fair place for Haydn. In the past two years, I have been rediscovering the joys of "classical music" after years of listening mainly to progressive and hard rock and metal. I have been listening mainly to Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, and Haydn, and if absolutely pressed to choose one, I believe it would be Haydn. He can play to any mood or emotion I'm feeling, or want to feel. And when I'm feeling blue or anxious, he is best able to lift my spirits.


----------



## Chromatose

I usually decide whose best by sub category.. So when it comes to symphonies the greatest is Haydn, Papa H. also takes the crown in piano trios. If we're talking Piano concertos or concerti of any kind for that matter Mozart is the champ, not to mention opera. Beethoven on the other hand reigns supreme in the piano sonata, string quartet categories, no one comes close.


----------



## Haydn man

Foth said:


> Would anyone like to recommend specific recordings of Haydn's Piano Sonatas? I've noticed that Paul Lewis and Jean-Efflam Bavouzet have recent releases; any opinions on those?


Welcome to TC
A bit late with a reply but I would recommend the version below. Played on a modern piano but with a period style.
Good recording


----------



## larold

_I believe Bach, Mozart and Beethoven (in any order) are very commonly regarded as the 3 greatest composers ever. I certainly don't disagree with that._

That was the outcome of my survey. No one else scored nearly as high as the big three. Haydn came in about equal with Brahms and Tchaikovsky after the top 3. The next 3, a notch lower, were Schubert, Handel and Schumann.

As to the piano sonatas, I'd recommend Brendel. He didn't record all of them but many.


----------



## Captainnumber36

I came here to make a Haydn thread and found this. I too, love Haydn, especially his Piano Sonatas performed by Brendel to be precise. They are so sophisticated, charming and clever! I need a complete set at some point. I wish Brendel did a complete cycle! I also enjoy Brendel's Mozart Sonatas, he does these two particularly well and performs Beethoven's like they are Mozart and Haydn, which I actually like.


----------



## Rogerx

Foth said:


> Would anyone like to recommend specific recordings of Haydn's Piano Sonatas? I've noticed that Paul Lewis and Jean-Efflam Bavouzet have recent releases; any opinions on those?


Great playing and extremely well recorded.


----------



## Guest

Rogerx said:


> Great playing and extremely well recorded.


Any opinions on which are the best of his piano sonatas?


----------



## Jacob Brooks

Haydn is simply the greatest!


----------



## Jacob Brooks

MacLeod said:


> Any opinions on which are the best of his piano sonatas?


I agree with Hpowders on the previous page: any in the hob. 30-40s region are his greatest. SO full of wit, clarity, and precision. Jeno Jando is my favorite, although I also love Brendel and Andsnes. Derzhavina is too angular for me. Avoid John McCabe like the plague.

edit: My very favorite is hob 26 in A major


----------



## Guest

Jacob Brooks said:


> I agree with Hpowders on the previous page: any in the hob. 30-40s region are his greatest. SO full of wit, clarity, and precision. Jeno Jando is my favorite, although I also love Brendel and Andsnes. Derzhavina is too angular for me. Avoid John McCabe like the plague.


Thanks for drawing atttention to hpowders post - but I thought he was referring to the age Haydn composed his best - not the Hob numbers...?


----------



## Jacob Brooks

MacLeod said:


> Thanks for drawing atttention to hpowders post - but I thought he was referring to the age Haydn composed his best - not the Hob numbers...?


Yes, my mistake. I suppose I read what I wanted to read.

Another great joy if you like Emmanuel Ax are these score videos that are available on youtube. Here is one:


----------



## Muddy

I've been listening to classical music for 45 years. I couldn't live without music. It puzzles me that until the last year or so, I have neglected Haydn. I've been all Beethoven, Bach, Mozart...of course...and Brahms, Schubert, Chopin, Sibelius, Dvorak, to name a few. But little Haydn. Only a few of his London Symphonies. But now, thanks to this forum, I purchased the amazing Piano Trios. And then two complete symphony sets, all the string quartets and all the piano sonatas. Wow! Once Haydn "clicked" for me, there was no going back. Haydn's music is so inventive and delightful. It makes me happy. I've been converting many of my friends. Haydn is now on my Mount Rushmore of composers.


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## Captainnumber36

I also love Haydn, his symphonies are filled with fire and spirit. His piano sonatas are also great as has been mentioned!

I particularly love hearing Brendel perform Haydn, he's one of my favorite pianists in general!


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## larold

Haydn was one of the first composers I connected with in the early days of my pursuit of classical music not because of his good nature or broad output but because of his consistency. It didn't matter what I played of his it was good. This was very different from almost every other composer I listened to. And there is so much of his music to discover that he dwarfs most composers in that regard. His is easily a lifelong pursuit. If you think you know everything there is to know about Haydn try this: https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Battle...he+nile&qid=1551810957&s=music&sr=1-1-catcorr


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

I just love this one!


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## Littlephrase

Yeah, Haydn is great.


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## hammeredklavier

I have to admit though; certain moments in J. Haydn do seem to anticipate late Beethoven in a way unique from his contemporaries' (ex. Mozart K.546, M. Haydn MH17).
13:00




and Op.51 a essentially a string quartet work with 9 movements, each having a different key


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## HerbertNorman

My father explained me the importance of Haydn as a composer and teacher in the history of classical music , when I listened to the "surprise" symphony for the first time...
As has been mentioned before I didn't get into him until a bit later and after exploring Beethoven , Schubert and Mozart (along with some others like Dvorak and Grieg)... 
Some of his compositions are just simply splendid...! I saw his first string quartet being played by 2 girls and 2 boys from the local school a few years ago. Being so close to the performers was an experience in itself , but I remember getting my set with Haydn chamber music out afterwards and listening to it for hours!
A genius , whose work is well worth listening to!


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## Captainnumber36

I certainly need to listen to more. I've enjoyed what I've heard though!


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## Xisten267

hammeredklavier said:


> I have to admit though; *certain moments in J. Haydn do seem to anticipate late Beethoven in a way unique from his contemporaries*' (ex. Mozart K.546, M. Haydn MH17).
> 13:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Op.51 a essentially a string quartet work with 9 movements, each having a different key


I don't think so; the style is different, and for number of movements Mozart also has his serenades and divertimenti with more than four. Besides, each movement of Beethoven's Op. 131 has a different form, and the music plays continuously, as if it was a single giant movement.


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## SixFootScowl

Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


Great, you are then much enjoying Haydn's music.


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## hammeredklavier

Allerius said:


> I don't think so; the style is totally different, and for number of movements Mozart also has his serenades and divertimenti with more than four. Besides, each movement of Beethoven's Op. 131 has a different form.


I do think that Beethoven, by writing Op.131, surpassed his teacher. It's just that Joseph's fantasia movement reminds me of the cavatina from Beethoven Op.130 more than anything from the 18th century does. (I'm not trying to make Beethoven look like a thief or anything) Mark Spitzer also discussed the influence of Joseph's Op.51 on Beethoven. By form, I guess you're talking about intermovemental connections again, but there are also examples found in Mozart's K.203, K.334. I also read through the webpage about Op.131, which you cited earlier in another thread, but I found some of its claims slightly unconvincing and exaggerated. I'll discuss more on this when I get home.


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## Xisten267

hammeredklavier said:


> I do think that Beethoven, by writing Op.131, surpassed his teacher. It's just that Joseph's fantasia movement reminds me of the cavatina from Beethoven Op.130 more than anything from the 18th century does. (I'm not trying to make Beethoven look like a thief or anything) Mark Spitzer also discussed the influence of Joseph's Op.51 on Beethoven. *By form, I guess you're talking about intermovemental connections again*, but there are also examples found in Mozart's K.203, K.334. I also read through the webpage about Op.131, which you cited earlier in another thread, but I found some of its claims slightly unconvincing and exaggerated. I'll discuss more on this when I get home.


Yes, but I also mean an important difference between Haydn's Op. 51 and Beethoven's Op. 131: in Haydn's case we have essentially a collection of slow movements (with the exception of the last), while the Beethoven tries to integrate different forms: first movement is a fugue, second is a gigue, third is a kind of recitative, fourth is a theme and variations, fifth is a scherzo, sixth is a kind of instrumental aria that serves as an introduction to the seventh, that is a vigorous sonata form, and all this is actually a single, extended movement. I think that late in his life Beethoven was experimenting with single movements that were like many in one, like in the finale of the _Choral_ symphony and in the Grosse Fuge.



Ampersand Man said:


> I love Haydn. That's all i have to say about this.


Yes, I also like Haydn, particularly his Paris and London symphonies, his last quartets and his two late oratorios. His piano music didn't "click" in me yet though.


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