# Brahms' Symphony No. 3 Mvt. 3 and Carlos Santana



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I was listening to Symphony 3 by Brahms and thought it sounded familiar until it finally clicked, Love of My Life by Santana, Dave Matthews, Carter Beauford & Co.

I youtube it, and it turns out Santana did in fact get inspiration from this Symphony for that melody:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Did you know about that BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist?


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Dear Captain. Amazing. Never heard that before. I wonder how Brahms would have reacted? Perhaps not to the beat. But I wouldn’t automatically assume that he would have hated it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Larkenfield said:


> Dear Captain. Amazing. Never heard that before. I wonder how Brahms would have reacted? Perhaps not to the beat. But I wouldn't automatically assume that he would have hated it.


But Brahms basically plagiarizes, "quotes", Beethoven's 9th in his 1st Symphony. One good turn for another I suppose!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> But Brahms basically plagiarizes, "quotes", Beethoven's 9th in his 1st Symphony. One good turn for another I suppose!


Well, "sort of resembles" might be a better term than "quotes."


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> Well, "sort of resembles" might be a better term than "quotes."


Fair enough, friend!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

That's sick. I despise it when lesser composers rip off the classics for their own financial gain. Barry Manilow was another rip-off artist. Poor Brahms - he deserves better.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> That's sick. I despise it when lesser composers rip off the classics for their own financial gain. Barry Manilow was another rip-off artist. Poor Brahms - he deserves better.


I used to love Dave Matthews, and that song was one I'd listen to a lot. I'm not really upset about it, it happens all the time in music both intentionally and unintentionally.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

mbhaub said:


> That's sick. I despise it when lesser composers rip off the classics for their own financial gain. Barry Manilow was another rip-off artist. Poor Brahms - he deserves better.


In that case the musical _Kismet_, by Wright and Forrest, was one of the greatest rip-offs of all times. Stealing just about every good tune that Borodin ever wrote, it came to the stage in 1953 (winning the Tony Award for best musical) and was made into an MGM movie in 1955. It is still often performed, sometimes even on major opera stages.

Worth noting that this infamous duo had earlier done the same in their _Song of Norway_, this time committing their depredations on the works of Edvard Grieg.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

In any case, we all know who was more brilliant here, !


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I used to love Dave Matthews, and that song was one I'd listen to a lot. I'm not really upset about it, it happens all the time in music both intentionally and unintentionally.


Dave Matthews? Brahms deserves better thieves.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Red Terror said:


> Dave Matthews? Brahms deserves better thieves.


It was really Santana that stole it, I think.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Another ripoff of Brahms.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

There's also this, from the movie "Goodbye Again." Good flick from Hollywood's good ol' days.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> There's also this, from the movie "Goodbye Again." Good flick from Hollywood's good ol' days.


Is that Anthony Perkins? Eeek!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Open Book said:


> Another ripoff of Brahms.


It's not a ripoff if one credits the composer, it's just an insult.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I was listening to Symphony 3 by Brahms and thought it sounded familiar until it finally clicked, Love of My Life by Santana, Dave Matthews, Carter Beauford & Co.
> 
> I youtube it, and it turns out Santana did in fact get inspiration from this Symphony for that melody:


Personally, I don't mind if pop/rock artists quote from the masters. It gives people a frame of reference. I never paid much attention to the 3rd symphony until I stumbled on a clip from the old film noire movie Undercurrent, where Katharine Hepburn sits in rapt attention as Paul Henried plays it on the piano. Now the 3rd is one of my favorite symphonies.

Whatever wakes people up to something greater without trivializing it, it's okay with me.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Manxfeeder said:


> Personally, I don't mind if pop/rock artists quote from the masters. It gives people a frame of reference. I never paid much attention to the 3rd symphony until I stumbled on a clip from the old film noire movie Undercurrent, where Katharine Hepburn sits in rapt attention as Paul Henried plays it on the piano. Now the 3rd is one of my favorite symphonies.
> 
> Whatever wakes people up to something greater without trivializing it, it's okay with me.


It can certainly serve to introduce the masses to the wonders of Classical Music.


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## drmdjones (Dec 25, 2018)

Let's not forget Jethro Tull's "Bourree" taken from Bach's first lute suite. They do credit Bach.

Regarding the OP, I always thought Santana influenced Brahms


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

drmdjones said:


> Let's not forget Jethro Tull's "Bourree" taken from Bach's first lute suite. They do credit Bach.


Back in the day, that was a big hit in my college music department. Ian Anderson made Bach cool.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

KenOC said:


> In that case the musical _Kismet_, by Wright and Forrest, was one of the greatest rip-offs of all times. Stealing just about every good tune that Borodin ever wrote, it came to the stage in 1953 (winning the Tony Award for best musical) and was made into an MGM movie in 1955. It is still often performed, sometimes even on major opera stages.
> 
> Worth noting that this infamous duo had earlier done the same in their _Song of Norway_, this time committing their depredations on the works of Edvard Grieg.


Having owned a recording of the original cast of _Kismet_ since it opened in 1953, and loved it ever since, I look at the album cover and see in big type "with Music from *Alexander Borodin*, Musical Adaptation & Lyrics by Robert Wright & George Forrest". The "infamous duo" in an interview I read decades ago affirmed that Borodin's musical gifts far exceeded their own feeble skills (Grieg's gift also, I assume), and they were delighted to be content merely to reshape bits of it to fit the requirements of the different setting of the musical stage and theater. There was no attempt to conceal anything from anybody, só I find Ken's shuddering repudiation of _Kismet_ inexplicable.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It can certainly serve to introduce the masses to the wonders of Classical Music.


I doubt it would serve such purpose. Most wouldn't even know Brahms' music and would happily attribute it to the quoter.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Red Terror said:


> I doubt it would serve such purpose. Most wouldn't even know Brahms' music and would happily attribute it to the quoter.


You're right, very true. But once it's discovered, it could serve that purpose, but just not on a large scale.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> That's sick. I despise it when lesser composers rip off the classics for their own financial gain. Barry Manilow was another rip-off artist. Poor Brahms - he deserves better.


You must love this one then  Rock versions of Classical, and Classical versions of Rock never works to my ears.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> It was really Santana that stole it, I think.


My money is on Matthews.

And how about Billy Joel's collaboration with Beethoven?






Beethoven does get a credit (but no royalties).

Speaking of royalties, Rodgers and Hammerstein get 90% of the royalties from pop star, Ariana Grande's hit song.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...ent-songwriting-royalties-rodgers-hammerstein


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

jegreenwood said:


> My money is on Matthews.
> 
> And how about Billy Joel's collaboration with Beethoven?
> 
> ...


I read a story that Santana heard the Brahms' work on the radio then went to the record shop and hummed the melody to find it; it then turned into this song.

TBH, I don't think Dave listens to much Classical.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Quotation isn't "stealing" - what a silly idea.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I read a story that Santana heard the Brahms' work on the radio then went to the record shop and hummed the melody to find it; it then turned into this song.
> 
> TBH, I don't think Dave listens to much Classical.


I think you're right.


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