# Abstract Composers



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Think of non-representational art. Bela Bartok comes to mind, but I'm looking for a bright version of him, he lived in the dark I feel. Schoenberg also comes to mind, and the atonal composers. Maybe some of the impressionists would be more up my alley. I like Debussy and Ravel, but I don't love their melodies. And yes, I know Debussy didn't like being labeled as an Impressionist.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Franco Donatoni is a brighter Bartok


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Franco Donatoni is a brighter Bartok


I didn't listen to the piece you suggested, but I looked him up on Apple Music and am browsing his work.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

While it's interesting, I'm not moved by it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Do you like Koechlin’s melodies?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm now trying the work you suggested. That's a neat one, but still a bit dark.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Do you like Koechlin’s melodies?


I forgot about him. He was suggested to me in another thread of mine, Nocturnes and Lullabies. Certainly fits the bill!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

See if you can hear Michael Korstick play the same music - it should be on Apple Music. Henk isn’t well recorded. 

I’m listening to this


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Here’s a nice bit of Donatoni. I don’t hear dark, what I hear is brash! Arrogant almost. He was very influenced by Bartok’s 4th quartet, he says.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I am happy with Koechlin atm. Thanks!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Think of non-representational art. Bela Bartok comes to mind, but I'm looking for a bright version of him, he lived in the dark I feel. Schoenberg also comes to mind, and the atonal composers. Maybe some of the impressionists would be more up my alley. I like Debussy and Ravel, but I don't love their melodies. And yes, I know Debussy didn't like being labeled as an Impressionist.


A bright version of Bartók? There are none. There's only one version of Bartók --- he's the only one you need.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I found myself quite happy with Schoenberg after a bit.


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## Enthalpy (Apr 15, 2020)

???

I fear I didn't grasp the question.

Music has almost always been abstract, non-representative.

Concrete music is a rare exception, with Pierre Schaeffer being nearly the only composer
wikipedia


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Yeah, I'm also not sure if I understand what you are looking for. Debussy came to mind (I'm listening to his _Pelléas et Mélisande_ at the moment) but you said you didn't like his melodies. What about Satie, maybe?


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## composingmusic (Dec 16, 2021)

I'll be curious to hear what you make of Messiaen!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Give a listen to some Xenakis.

Try his work _Jonchaies_, which is like Stravinsky's _Le sacre_ filtered through a peace pipe with added rock for texture:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

composingmusic said:


> I'll be curious to hear what you make of Messiaen!


I like it!


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## S P Summers (Dec 23, 2016)

Try Sorabji. The Habermann recording of the Fantaisie Espagnole, KSS 19 is probably the easiest place to start.

Also- Barber, Feinberg, Ligeti, Lutosławski, Ives, Ornstein, Rautavaara, Rzewski, Scriabin, and Szymanowski.


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## S P Summers (Dec 23, 2016)

If you want something really abstract, here's Wyschnegradsky's quarter-tone preludes, lol. Much of it is completely insane but I really like #3 (4:21) and #8 (16:21).

Charles Ives wrote some interesting quarter-tone music also. This quarter-tone music can be quite abrasive but then there's the occasional one that just works for whatever reason.

The late Scriabin piano sonatas might be something you're into, for a less abstract suggestion.


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## composingmusic (Dec 16, 2021)

Would be interesting to see what you make of mid to late Boulez – very colourful and precise music for sure!





Lutoslawski also comes to mind: 





As does Janacek:





I'll throw a few Finnish composers in here too – Rautavaara has already been mentioned, but there's a number of really good ones around today!

Kaija Saariaho: 





Magnus Lindberg: 





Curious to see what you make of Sebastian Fagerlund as well:
Water Atlas


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I wonder what abstract music means. Are the Goldberg Variations abstract, or Beethoven's 5th? It seems the term just means "quite modern". Clearly it is not "music that lacks big melodies". And it has to move the listener. Maybe there is another thread that explains the term?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> I wonder what abstract music means. Are the Goldberg Variations abstract, or Beethoven's 5th? It seems the term just means "quite modern". Clearly it is not "music that lacks big melodies". And it has to move the listener. Maybe there is another thread that explains the term?


Good point. It could be argued, for example, that absolute music is more abstract than programme music


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Abstract Composers?



Enthalpy said:


> ???
> I fear I didn't grasp the question. ...





Enthusiast said:


> I wonder what abstract music means. Are the Goldberg Variations abstract, or Beethoven's 5th? It seems the term just means "quite modern". Clearly it is not "music that lacks big melodies". And it has to move the listener. Maybe there is another thread that explains the term?


Count me one of the confused.
The topic provided here is "Abstract Composers", but I don't consider a composer to be either abstract or non-abstract. They are just real people who write music. More "concrete" than "abstract", I'd suggest people are.

Now ... _music_ (or any other art form) can reasonably be argued to be abstract, if we, of course, have parameters for _what is_ and _is not_ such a condition.

Arguing, say, that the music of Pierre Boulez is rather "abstract" still begs the question: Isn't a thoughtful, highly skilled and intellectual composer such as Boulez rather _concrete_ in his approach to art?

We used to talk about program music (that which "tells a story") as contrasting against something that "doesn't tell a story" (as such), something like a "pure symphony" -- say, the Beethoven First. So, is _that_ abstract music? (I don't even want to _think_ of Beethoven as being an abstract composer. He is too _real_ to me.)

Again in a post, I have nothing to offer. So I'm out.


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

Milhaud? Honegger? Gerhard?


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