# Classical Music Excesses



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Have you ever listened to a piece and thought, "Oh man, this is just too much!" Often late romantic pieces have this effect on me, as if subtlety is thrown out the window in favor of hysteria.

An example for me would be Tchaikovsky's "Francesca da Rimini" especially from about the 2:30 mark onward. There's only so much storming and raging I can hear before it starts to become almost comical. (Parts of it I do like very much.)

But it doesn't have to be romantic. What pieces do you feel border on the ridiculous with something in excess - too much cliche, too much innovation, too serious, too much bombast, or whatever it may be?

(I'm taking notes because there are days I really enjoy excess.  )


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## KirbyH (Jun 30, 2015)

I do have one work in particular that comes to mind: Erich Korngold's Das Wunder der Heliane.

Mind you, I love Korngold, far more than I thought I ever would. Once the Korngold bug bit me a few years back, that was it - I had to have more. But Heliane... it's just too much. WAY too much. Korngold's rich orchestration was a staple from his earliest years and Heliane represents the culmination of the art. Thing is, everything in that opera is loud, from the singers on down. Korngold's huge orchestra (complete with piano, harmonium, AND celesta) plays for much of it, every instrument. How he kept it all together is a wonder only known to him. It suffers under its own beauty - but I love it. I absolutely adore the way he weaves his themes continually into this richly purpled tapestry, far outshining his weak libretto and story. If you like the film scores - and if you listen to Heliane as JUST music with no staging - then the world is yours.

But really, the five keyboards in the pit is too much. Phew.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't necessarily think too much is a bad thing, but some pieces do have that effect on me. Especially bombastic finales, like Beethoven's 5th, the "symphony that won't end". That finale is almost too much.

I think the first time I heard the finale of Feste Romane by Respighi, I laughed because of how incredibly overblown it is (and of course I love it for that reason).

In other ways, I've noticed excess in Rachmaninov's works. His 2nd and 3rd piano concertos (among two of my favorite classical works of all time) contain romantic themes (particularly in the finale movements, toward the end) that ache and cry and writhe and sound almost like the soundtrack to a soap opera. It sounds like I'm insulting it, but I really like his ability to write those flowing tunes, because although they're a bit excessive and melodramatic, they're beautiful and especially so when accompanied by the piano.





 (from 43:35 to the climax at 44:00 mainly is what I'm thinking of)


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I know several here will disagree greatly, but Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony does that for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

KirbyH said:


> I do have one work in particular that comes to mind: Erich Korngold's Das Wunder der Heliane.
> 
> Mind you, I love Korngold, far more than I thought I ever would. Once the Korngold bug bit me a few years back, that was it - I had to have more. But Heliane... it's just too much. WAY too much. Korngold's rich orchestration was a staple from his earliest years and Heliane represents the culmination of the art. Thing is, everything in that opera is loud, from the singers on down. Korngold's huge orchestra (complete with piano, harmonium, AND celesta) plays for much of it, every instrument. How he kept it all together is a wonder only known to him. It suffers under its own beauty - but I love it. I absolutely adore the way he weaves his themes continually into this richly purpled tapestry, far outshining his weak libretto and story. If you like the film scores - and if you listen to Heliane as JUST music with no staging - then the world is yours.
> 
> But really, the five keyboards in the pit is too much. Phew.


Absolutely spot on !


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Tchaikovsky is exactly that to me. The Manfred Symphony, 1st piano concerto, Romeo and Juliet, etc.



MarkW said:


> I know several here will disagree greatly, but Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony does that for me.


I disagree most greatly sir.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Weston said:


> An example for me would be Tchaikovsky's "Francesca da Rimini" especially from about the 2:30 mark onward. There's only so much storming and raging I can hear before it starts to become almost comical. (Parts of it I do like very much.)


Did Tchaikovsky ever write anything where he didn't go to excess? 



Tristan said:


> I don't necessarily think too much is a bad thing, but some pieces do have that effect on me. Especially bombastic finales, like Beethoven's 5th, the "symphony that won't end". That finale is almost too much.


Ah, yes: dominant! tonic! dominant! tonic! tonic! dominant! tonic! dominant! tonic! {etc, for a long, long time} dominant! dominant! TONI-I-I-I-C!!!

But to be fair to Beethoven, he pretty much invented this sort of thing, and at the time it was probably not nearly as much of a cliche as it has become through overuse by others (Brahms being a particular culprit - his entire violin concerto is a thing of beauty, and then he suddenly chops it off in the end, as if thinking "oh, wait, I have to do that Beethoven thing now!")


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony's extended, tumultuous ending always makes me smile. Sort of like the ocean on a particularly rough day--waves everywhere. Wonderful excess.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony's extended, tumultuous ending always makes me smile. Sort of like the ocean on a particularly rough day--waves everywhere. Wonderful excess.


more than 80% of all romantic music ( romanticism) suits this description - waves are everywhere, so is Romanticism - Sturm und Drang :lol:

that's why I think some people on this forum are avid advocates pre-1770 music  They don't want to get from top to toes in water from water splashes :lol:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Saint-Saens' Organ Symphony's extended, tumultuous ending always makes me smile. Sort of like the ocean on a particularly rough day--waves everywhere. Wonderful excess.


I have always thought that the glorious melody with which the movement opens is really worth repeating a few times, in between sections of tumultuous chaos.


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