# Favorite Brahms Symphony



## obwan

To celebrate my new found fondness for Brahms I am posting a poll inquiring to his greatest symphony


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## PianoMan

Oh man, what a question...despite the fact that I think 4 will win, I'm gonna go with 2 simply for its cello melodies!


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## Olias

I'd rather use the term "favorite" instead of "greatest" but I pick the 4th. I listen to it the most so it must be my favorite.


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## redrobin

I remastered the complete set from 1955 by Bruno Walter with the Columbia Symphony. Sounds great.


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## Vesteralen

Third by a whisker over the fourth.


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## Romantic Geek

I have to go with #3, although I really love #4. I probably would have picked #4 if not for the last movement (which is a great composition, but doesn't fit the rest of the symphony's feel in my opinion). I also really really like #1. I don't know #2 well enough...probably should work on that.


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## mmsbls

I agree with Vesteralen and Romantic Geek. I voted for #3 since it is my favorite. I do love #4 and #1 as well. All three are very close and "great".


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## Art Rock

Voted for the 3d. On another day I might vote for any of the three others, they are all great.


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## tebw

Actually the 3rd is my least favourite, probably because it ends quietly. The 4th has been my favourite piece since I first heard it 25 years ago. I love all the symphonies of course, and I would order them 4 - 2 - 1 - 3 in terms of how much I love to listen to them.


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## Polyphemus

Number 1 for me his homage to the Beethoven is masterful.


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## EarthBoundRules

I'll have to go with the _4th_ for its absolutely amazing final movement, although I love the _1st_ and _3rd_ symphonies nearly as much.


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## Romantic Geek

EarthBoundRules said:


> I'll have to go with the _4th_ for its absolutely amazing final movement, although I love the _1st_ and _3rd_ symphonies nearly as much.


You really like that movement?


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## EarthBoundRules

Romantic Geek said:


> You really like that movement?


I've never heard a more exciting theme-and-variations movement in a symphony.


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## Olias

EarthBoundRules said:


> I've never heard a more exciting theme-and-variations movement in a symphony.


AND he managed to put the 30 variations in SONATA FORM. He actually made it seem like there was a departure and return without actually going anywhere. Brilliant.


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## Arsakes

Number 3 for me, it has the sense of Dvorak's 7th symphony.
Number 1 and then 4 by a whisker under 3.

2nd one isn't interesting enough, just like Schumann's #2 and Dvorak's #2!


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## Chrythes

I'd go with the third as well. The fourth would have been my first choice if not for the Scherzo. 
I agree about the second with Arsakes, it really is quite boring.


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## PlaySalieri

It is 1 for me. I think karajan also regarded it as the greatest as he would leave it until last when doing a cycle.
Then I would say 4,3,2. 
For me the opening of the 1st is so stunning in a big profound way - and the finale packs such an amazing punch - I have to go for it. In fact I would even say that the first was like a false dawn in a great era of symphonic composition for Brahms as the other three are just not as good. Beethoven's eroica was a true dawn - as he followed up with equally great works - 5,6,7,9.


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## Romantic Geek

Olias said:


> AND he managed to put the 30 variations in SONATA FORM. He actually made it seem like there was a departure and return without actually going anywhere. Brilliant.


Oh it's a masterpiece but I think it's misplaced in Symphony #4. I'd much appreciate it outside of the context of Symphony #4 than inside it.


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## TrazomGangflow

Who am I to judge the greatest symphony of the Master (Brahms)? I just chose my favorite, the 3rd.


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## Olias

Chrythes said:


> I'd go with the third as well. The fourth would have been my first choice if not for the Scherzo.
> I agree about the second with Arsakes, it really is quite boring.


Awwwww, I love the scherzo. Its like a scene at a dockside tavern with a bunch of happy sailors.


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## Olias

Romantic Geek said:


> Oh it's a masterpiece but I think it's misplaced in Symphony #4. I'd much appreciate it outside of the context of Symphony #4 than inside it.


It doesn't bother me. I think it fits nicely. On the other hand apparently when Brahms first played it on piano for his friends they suggested he publish the movement as a stand alone piece and compose a different finale.


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## Romantic Geek

Olias said:


> It doesn't bother me. I think it fits nicely. On the other hand apparently when Brahms first played it on piano for his friends they suggested he publish the movement as a stand alone piece and compose a different finale.


That's my opinion.


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## Sid James

I chose the *4th*. Come to think of it, re the conversation above between _Olias_ and _Romantic Geek_, the last movement of the 4th does come across as similarly weighty and enough of a meal in itself like the _Tragic Overture_. But I never felt it out of place. My favourite movement in this symphony is the slow movement, it gives me this feel of a golden colour, maybe a balmy summer's day, walking in a park and admiring the view. It's a homely, comforting feeling.


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## Olias

Romantic Geek said:


> That's my opinion.


I can understand that.


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## Arabella

I think I would have to go for No.3. It gives me some wonderful memories of meeting my partner. 
Closely followed by No.4

Though they are all beautiful.


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## DrHieronymusFaust

From best to 'worst': 4th -- 3rd, 2nd ------ 1st.

For reasons unknown to mankind, the 1st symphony is my least favorite by quite a distance. However, I will most likely give it another ten or twenty chances in the not too distant future.


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## powerbooks

3

The only famous major symphony among the repertoires that has all four movements end in soft and calm notes.

Still seeking the perfect performance of the 3......... Any suggestion?


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## tahnak

Polyphemus said:


> Number 1 for me his homage to the Beethoven is masterful.


A brilliant reading of the Brahms First by Istvan Kertesz and Wiener. Kertesz has performed all works by Brahms brilliantly.




There are three recordings that top others of this symphony:
1. Zubin Mehta Wiener
2. This is the second best Istvan Kertesz Wiener
3. Wilhelm Furtwangler Berlin


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## Andreas

powerbooks said:


> Still seeking the perfect performance of the 3......... Any suggestion?


If you like it slow, balanced, controlled and spiritually charged, you might like Eschenbach with the Houston Symphony.


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## powerbooks

Andreas said:


> If you like it slow, balanced, controlled and spiritually charged, you might like Eschenbach with the Houston Symphony.


I have to say: slow No.3 would not work for me. But Eschenbach intrigues me, and I will take a look. Thanks!


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## fchekani

I am impressed by Furtwangler interpretation of Symphony 3 (BPO/1949) and highly recommend it.


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## powerbooks

fchekani said:


> I am impressed by Furtwangler interpretation of Symphony 3 (BPO/1949) and highly recommend it.


I have couple of Furtwangler's 3, not sure if I have the particular one you mentioned. To me, this is the one symphony that the maestro did not sound easy with. His unique change of tempos did not work well for this piece, and it is really hard to generate tension (which is the magic of Furtwangler) in this piece. Still, I like his recordings for the tradition.

PS. Looks like 3 is passing 4 as the favorite one on the poll.


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## Jared

powerbooks said:


> Still seeking the perfect performance of the 3......... Any suggestion?


If you're not into 'slow', then this set is a real gem... smaller forces, lively pace and LOTS of glorious tone colour:


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## Jared

Guys,

Forgive me, but this is a poll I simply can't vote in. I adore the Brahms Symphonies and at times, all 4 have been my favourites, but they keep jumping around in my mind in order of preference. I can be far more decisive for just about every other composer in this regard... but not Brahms.


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## Olias

Jared said:


> If you're not into 'slow', then this set is a real gem... smaller forces, lively pace and LOTS of glorious tone colour:


I highly second this suggestion! The Mackerras set uses the smaller instrumentation that Brahms used at the premiere of each work and the result is both nuanced and rich in timbre. Plus the book of program notes is unbelievably well researched and informed. Great set.


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## fchekani

All 4 have been my favourites too ...


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## Toddlertoddy

No. 2 because of the famous (at least to cellists) and beautiful soli in the second movement. There's a lot of room for interpretation of that melody.


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## fchekani

It is surprising that audience perceive music so differently. By the way Furtwangler was successful to generate tension in my ears. I don't think his interpretation is artificial although I hear some outstanding crescendos and convulsive moments in his recording. My life is challenging and so I am not a fan of polite performances.



powerbooks said:


> I have couple of Furtwangler's 3, not sure if I have the particular one you mentioned. To me, this is the one symphony that the maestro did not sound easy with. His unique change of tempos did not work well for this piece, and it is really hard to generate tension (which is the magic of Furtwangler) in this piece. Still, I like his recordings for the tradition.
> 
> PS. Looks like 3 is passing 4 as the favorite one on the poll.


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## powerbooks

fchekani said:


> It is surprising that audience perceive music so differently. By the way Furtwangler was successful to generate tension in my ears. I don't think his interpretation is artificial although I hear some outstanding crescendos and convulsive moments in his recording. My life is challenging and so I am not a fan of polite performances.


You might have overstretched my opinion. I certainly agreed that Furtwangler is the master in generating tension, especially in his great recordings of the German symphony repertoire. I just felt the Brahms 3 is an enigma from all those great symphonies, and it is in such as pastorally clam and meditation mood that it is hard to feel the traditional tension in a sonata form of symphonic movement.


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## powerbooks

Olias said:


> I highly second this suggestion! The Mackerras set uses the smaller instrumentation that Brahms used at the premiere of each work and the result is both nuanced and rich in timbre. Plus the book of program notes is unbelievably well researched and informed. Great set.


Thanks both for the recommendation.

I actually have this two-disc set, but have to find where I put them (kind of messy arrangement with my forever going CD collections!). I generally like Mackerras and his Mozart symphonies and operas left me plenty of pleasures.

I guess the reason i do not have a strong impression of this set is because i acquired this along with half dozen of Brahms sets together couple of years ago when I had a fever to his music. I was more impressed by the Levine Chicago set at that time. Now come to think of it, Levine's Chicago 3 is very good, better than his Vienna retake.


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## humanbean

My favorite Brahms symphony changes from time to time, but I would have to say No. 2 is my favorite at the moment. All four movements have something great to offer, but the massive ~20 minute first mvmt is astonishing. I just love the pastoral qualities, and the work is arguably his most Beethovian symphony.

Listen to the performance by CSO under the baton of Sir Georg Solti - you'll be pretty amazed.


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## asplund

I vote for the Fourth, and within it, for the fourth movement


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## drpraetorus

none. Brahms is too academic and not emotional enough


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## Arsakes

drpraetorus said:


> none. Brahms is too academic and not emotional enough


Troll Harder next time Frankenstein! Only Sibelius is more emotional and somewhat Dvorak.
Symphony No.3 is full of emotion.


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## Carpenoctem

People, don't buy a single symphony recording, get this one, it's the best recording of Brahms' symphonies out there, I have it for some time now and I can't tell you how much I'm glad that I can listen to it whenever I want, here is the recording:

Georg Solti with Chicago Symphony Orchestra









Also, my favorite is his 3rd symphony. It is packed with emotion, technical perfection and beautiful melodies.

The 3rd movement, Poco allegretto always gives me shivers.


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## powerbooks

Carpenoctem said:


> People, don't buy a single symphony recording, get this one, it's the best recording of Brahms' symphonies out there, I have it for some time now and I can't tell you how much I'm glad that I can listen to it whenever I want, here is the recording:
> 
> Georg Solti with Chicago Symphony Orchestra
> 
> View attachment 7139
> 
> 
> Also, my favorite is his 3rd symphony. It is packed with emotion, technical perfection and beautiful melodies.
> 
> The 3rd movement, Poco allegretto always gives me shivers.


You did notice that poster #43 claimed Brahms "not emotional enough", didn't you? 

I think B3 is a perfect example to beg for different!

[BTW, however, not necessarily agree with your pick of Solti recordings, unfortunately! Many are better, Levine among one of them.]


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## Carpenoctem

powerbooks said:


> [BTW, however, not necessarily agree with your pick of Solti recordings, unfortunately! Many are better, Levine among one of them.]


I've heard a lot of recordings of his symphonies, and not a single one sounded like this Solti recording. But then again, it is a matter of personal taste.


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## powerbooks

Carpenoctem said:


> I've heard a lot of recordings of his symphonies, and not a single one sounded like this Solti recording. But then again, it is a matter of personal taste.


I do agree that those recordings sound glorious, from the golden age DEECA recording technology!

I question the inner content of these interpretations, and I do not feel that Solti Chicago captured the glimpse of peaceful sunset from the great romantic run over a century.


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## neoshredder

How about the best movement of each symphony. That way, we can get an idea why Brahms is rated so high. So far, I can't get into it.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I have yet to hear a Levine recording of anything that I have thought to be the finest. I have the box set by Bohm which I think is quite good:










And I have favorites of the individual symphonies:




























(and there are others...)

But it was the recent Gardiner HIP recordings that really brought Brahms' symphonies to life for me. These performances are muscular, "transparent" as opposed to dense, and bring a heightened sense of clarity. They also have the added plus of including a good number of Brahms' marvelous choral works as part of the recordings:


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## campy

I'm too late for the poll, or else I would have *doubled* the vote total for the symphony #2. Hard to believe only one other poster rated it best of the four.


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## Cadenza

The 1st, but they are all the music of my life.
After years of comparing, I've settled on Kurt Sanderling and the Dresden State Orchestra.


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## powerbooks

campy said:


> I'm too late for the poll, or else I would have *doubled* the vote total for the symphony #2. Hard to believe only one other poster rated it best of the four.


The 2nd is a fine piece, but don't you have the feeling that the adagio is kind of "blending", and you might easily switch it with the andante from the 1st?


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## Arsakes

I think his 2nd needs to be listened more like Schumann's symphony No.2 before being judged.


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## Guest

Stlukesguild - I have that Carlos Kleiber Brahms 4. A bit dry and harsh (digital transfer) but what a performance. Next to the "Eroica" the Brahms 4 is my all-time, desert-island symphony. So help me God, I love it more with each hearing - as if that were even possible. The end of the first movement when the recapitulation moves into 'overdrive'. It literally reminds me of a car gliding into 5th gear after a strenuous run up-hill, through all the gears. If I had to name some of the QOLI (quality of life issues) these would be Bach, Beethoven, Brahms' symphonies and baroque opera. For me this is oxygen - so essential to life is it for me.


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## Bone

Voted for 4th only because I'm stuck in a Kleiber loop right now; otherwise, 3 was and probably still is the fave and the reason I have so many sets of Brahms symphonies. Sanderling with Dresden is my favorite version of #3


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## Guest

Bone said:


> Voted for 4th only because I'm stuck in a Kleiber loop right now; otherwise, 3 was and probably still is the fave and the reason I have so many sets of Brahms symphonies. Sanderling with Dresden is my favorite version of #3


Really, the 4th is the standout but it's so difficult to chose between the remaining three: they're all as good as each other. Brahms 2 is stunning..."Oh, I'll have them all please".


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## TwoFourPianist

Number 3 for me. The first movement is highly melodic and epic at the same time. Also I am a huge fan of the 3rd movement.


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## CyrilWashbrook

Undecided about which is my favourite. But as a cellist, I'm forever grateful to Brahms for the first movement of the second.


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## Andreas

neoshredder said:


> How about the best movement of each symphony. That way, we can get an idea why Brahms is rated so high. So far, I can't get into it.


I like these best:

No. 1, third movement
No. 2, second movement
No. 3, first movement
No. 4, fourth movement


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## peeyaj

Brahms symphonies = strings heavy


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## Novelette

I'm amazed that the third symphony fared so well! It's an excellent symphony, to be sure, but the fourth remains my favorite here.

I'm curious, though, what is it about #2 that makes it so little acclaimed among the rest?

Surely it's a more purely sentimental work than the rest, but I always found it appealing.


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## Mahlerian

Mine's the 4th. Its lilting opening theme seems constantly poised on the edge of breaking down into a sob, but instead continues to step lightly and gracefully. The finale is a marvelous example of a completely dry, theoretical procedure (the passacaglia) being used in service of drama. And one doesn't have to understand anything about the construction of either movement to hear the drama of the music.


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## Avey

Novelette said:


> I'm amazed that the third symphony fared so well! It's an excellent symphony, to be sure, but the fourth remains my favorite here.
> 
> I'm curious, though, what is it about #2 that makes it so little acclaimed among the rest?
> 
> Surely it's a more purely sentimental work than the rest, but I always found it appealing.


I picked his 3rd merely for it's simplicity, speed -- it's his shortest I believe -- and overall cohesiveness of the work. Power and patience at once. Plus, you can't beat the silent fade away contrasted with how it starts. It does sound "Heroic," though he never coined it so himself, right?

However, I will say, as with any "greatest" thread, my personal favorite is probably the second for it's range of emotions. IMO, we begin with this melancholic and serious theme, which as we roll along from movement to movement, progressing to the end, turns to gaiety and vigor. It's a remarkable journey -- like all of Brahms symphonies really.


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## Andreas

Novelette said:


> I'm curious, though, what is it about #2 that makes it so little acclaimed among the rest?
> 
> Surely it's a more purely sentimental work than the rest, but I always found it appealing.


I'd guess its opening sounds a little too harmless and reposeful. In fact, the very beginning sounds so overly idyllic, I almost feel that it can only be meant ironically. However, Brahms never really pulls out the rug from under the listener. I can understand if people consider it lacking in conflict/drama.

I find that it makes for particularly intruiging listening. But it's probably the least immediately satisfying of his symphonies.


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## Novelette

Andreas said:


> I'd guess its opening sounds a little too harmless and reposeful. In fact, the very beginning sounds so overly idyllic, I almost feel that it can only be meant ironically. However, Brahms never really pulls out the rug from under the listener. I can understand if people consider it lacking in conflict/drama.
> 
> I find that it makes for particularly intruiging listening. But it's probably the least immediately satisfying of his symphonies.


Agreed, I have always found that the relative lack of turbulence gave this symphony a unique charm among the other, more unsettled works. Don't get me wrong, I love stormy music as much as anyone else, but where does turbulence most stand out except among calmness?

If we were to regard each symphony as its own kind of "movement", then the whole array of four makes for an altogether compelling unity.


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## Op.123

4 is the best but I can't vote for it. :scold:  :scold:


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## Vaneyes

I like 'em *all*, so there.


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## TrevBus

Sorry but I choose all 4. Just can't pick a favorite. As for best, not knowledgeable enough for that.


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## Cosmos

The 3rd has always been my favorite...though I've only listened to that one and the 1st. I must listen to the others before I can share a final opinion


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## Celloman

I don't even remember what I originally voted for! But honestly, I think that we're talking about one of the most impossible-to-rank symphony sets, aren't we? All four of these symphonies are high-quality and equally performed and recorded. At least with Beethoven or Mozart, you could argue that some of their symphonies are better than others (ie., Beethoven 1st symphony vs. his 9th). We're talking about the cream of the crop here, folks. What's not to like?


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## candiet

I like 4 its awesome.


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## obwan

Celloman said:


> (ie., Beethoven 1st symphony vs. his 9th).


I happen to like Beethoven's first symphony. Its more like Mozart than his others. Maybe you should compare 2, 4, 7 or 8 to #5.


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## Tristan

Brahms' 1st was the first work by Brahms that I became interested in. It's always been my favorite; it's one of those few symphonies where I have difficulty picking a favorite movement.


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## adrem

My favourite is definitely 4, then 1, 3 and 2.


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## spradlig

Too late for the poll, but I would vote for #4. Especially the wonderfully tragic first movement. I find the last movement enigmatic and I almost agree with an earlier post that it doesn't fit with the rest of the symphony.

I find the last movement of #1 rather overblown, like many Beethoven symphony movements.


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## nightscape

Wow, I am surprised to see Brahms #2 get that decimated. That being said, #4 for me as well.


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## Winterreisender

My favourite is #3 as it's the only one where I can genuinely say I like all four movements. My favourite overall movement has to be the finale of #1, however.


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## Novelette

It's difficult to choose. I enjoy all of Brahms' orchestral--and especially symphonic--output.

I listen to the first symphony most often, but I keenly enjoy the fourth. I'll take the whole lot of them.


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## LancsMan

In my youth I was very much a three B's man, and I listened to the symphonies regularly. Since then Brahms has had to make space for many other composers and I don't listen to the Brahms symphonies that frequently. Strangely my least favourite is the third, possibly because it is just so Brahmsian. The start of the first has to be one of the most arresting openings to any nineteenth century, and the last movement is pretty stirring. However I think the fourth is my favourite, particularly the last movement. Although I could change my opinion as I really like the second symphony, his most relaxed symphony.


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## billeames

Hello, I am new to this forum. I Love Brahms 1. Ozawa Boston SO 1977 DG Japan. Kurt Sanderling Dresden RCA. I have more to say later. thanks! Billl


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## hpowders

It really depends on my mood. Sometimes I think the first is the best. Other times, it's the fourth.

Either way, the great Brahms conductor Charles Munch conducting the Boston Symphony from the late 1950's is my favorite in both compositions.


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## JCarmel

LancsMan said:


> In my youth I was very much a three B's man, and I listened to the symphonies regularly. Since then Brahms has had to make space for many other composers and I don't listen to the Brahms symphonies that frequently. Strangely my least favourite is the third, possibly because it is just so Brahmsian. The start of the first has to be one of the most arresting openings to any nineteenth century, and the last movement is pretty stirring. However I think the fourth is my favourite, particularly the last movement. Although I could change my opinion as I really like the second symphony, his most relaxed symphony.


Cor Blimey, LancsMan...I couldn't have put it better meself?!


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## Lord Lance

The Third seemingly "won" the poll. How odd! The Third is the last symphony I'd expected to win. [I thought the First would easily outrank all three of them. The most approachable after all. Succeeding if not the First would have to be Fourth, then Second and then Third - his mellowest orchestral work.]

The First is my favorite Brahms works by a stretch - The drama, the orchestral writing, the textures, the themes and most importantly - the heavenly length!. Then Fourth, then second and finally the Third with which I struggle.

If I could, I would stop the trade of Gardiner's Brahms cycle. What an atrocity!


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## Jeff W

As good as the others are, my favorite will always be the second.


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## csacks

I would vote the first. The finale is overwhelming. As they use to say in wine tasting, it leaves me a sparkling aftertaste. Like he would be celebrating the accomplishment of his challenge about the completion of a symphony.


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## Torkelburger

Jeff W said:


> As good as the others are, my favorite will always be the second.


Yeah, I'm surprised the second didn't get more votes. One of the best finales ever written.


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## Haydn man

Double post ,,,,


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## Haydn man

Brahms 4th with Kleiber conducting the VPO
Irresistible performance of a great symphony


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## Der Siebente Kontinent

The Third, no question. I heard it for the first time when I was staying with my grandparents. It blew my mind away, and made me love my grandfather even more for introducing me with such beautiful music. favourite recording is Karl Böhm with the WPO.


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## hpowders

Brahms Fourth is the most haunting. I alternate between the First and Fourth. Hardly ever listen to the Second or Third.


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## Shibooty

Ever since I first listened to it, the 2nd Symphony has always been my favorite. I love the themes in the first movement.


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## MagneticGhost

Shibooty said:


> Ever since I first listened to it, the 2nd Symphony has always been my favorite. I love the themes in the first movement.


Great to see someone else championing the 2nd. Wonderful symphony!!


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## mtmailey

SYMPHONY 1 i like the most because of the last movement, symphony 2 like the last movement.


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## hpowders

I believe his Fourth is the best. However, I also enjoy the First. You can have #'s 2 and 3. Don't care for either one of them.


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## Haydn man

hpowders said:


> I believe his Fourth is the best. However, I also enjoy the First. You can have #'s 2 and 3. Don't care for either one of them.


Any reason why you don't like 2 and 3?
Just asking because they are works I have gradually become more familiar with and have grown to enjoy greatly


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## hpowders

Haydn man said:


> Any reason why you don't like 2 and 3?
> Just asking because they are works I have gradually become more familiar with and have grown to enjoy greatly


They just don't appeal to me and hold my attention the way #'s 1 and 4 do.


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## clavichorder

hpowders said:


> I believe his Fourth is the best. However, I also enjoy the First. You can have #'s 2 and 3. Don't care for either one of them.


I don't know how you can lump in 3 with 2. Not to say that 2 is bad, its just that to me, 3 is the best.


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## Polyphemus

1 & 4 for me I always like 1 but I think Kleiber's reading of 4 raised it above the other two. Klemperer is my choice for No 1.


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## hpowders

I'll take Charles Munch/Boston Symphony in both 1 & 4.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I like the 1st symphony the most. For me, it's the most massive one.


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## mtmailey

clavichorder said:


> I don't know how you can lump in 3 with 2. Not to say that 2 is bad, its just that to me, 3 is the best.


Well number 3 symphony i do like the 3rd & 4th movements number 2 symphony i do like movements 1,3 & 4 though.I guess some like other movements.


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## Nocturne

I'd have to say the third.


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## hpowders

clavichorder said:


> I don't know how you can lump in 3 with 2. Not to say that 2 is bad, its just that to me, 3 is the best.


That's fine. Number Three is probably the hardest one to conduct as a convincing whole. Levine has a good one.


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## DiesIraeCX

My favorite is the 4th, I think I just am naturally inclined to like "tragic" symphonies. I love the opening movement the most, it's some of the most cathartic music I know. The 2nd movement is beautiful but there's a melancholy that pervades the entire movement. The 3rd movement is extreme in its "outwardness", almost _too_ outward, but I think that's the point. You never truly feel "at ease" while listening to Brahms' 4th.

The finale is the famous movement, as someone who is "musically illiterate", I can't say I enjoy it for its musical innovations, but I enjoy the heck out of it nonetheless. It ends perfectly. I'm not quite sure how Brahms can make something sound almost triumphant yet so tragic at the same time. The first time I heard it, I didn't know what to feel.

It's on my short list of all-time favorite works.


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## opus55

wrong thread..
.
.


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## SeptimalTritone

You guys... 

The second is the best.


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## DiesIraeCX

SeptimalTritone said:


> You guys...
> 
> The second is the best.


All that matters is what _you_ like.

PS. The 4th is like totally the best.


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## Mahlerian

DiesIraeVIX said:


> My favorite is the 4th, I think I just am naturally inclined to like "tragic" symphonies. I love the opening movement the most, it's some of the most cathartic music I know. The 2nd movement is beautiful but there's a melancholy that pervades the entire movement. The 3rd movement is extreme in its "outwardness", almost _too_ outward, but I think that's the point. You never truly feel "at ease" while listening to the Brahms' 4th.
> 
> The finale is the famous movement, as someone who is "musically illiterate", I can't say I enjoy it for its musical innovations, but I enjoy the heck out of it nonetheless. It ends perfectly. I'm not quite sure how Brahms can make something sound almost triumphant yet so tragic at the same time. The first time I heard it, I didn't know what to feel.
> 
> It's on my short list of all-time favorite works.


I have a soft spot for the Fourth in part because it was the first work that I followed along with in orchestral score while listening. I found it such a great way of focusing my attention on what was going on, and I had never heard quite so clearly before.

Of course, the fact that the music is great helped as well!


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## violadude

I love pretty much all his symphonies more or less, some more than others I guess. But I probably would name the third or fourth as my favorite ultimately. The 1st is my least favorite and I kind of don't understand the hype surrounding its finale. IMO, it's probably one of the weakest movements out of all of them. I think the second is underrated.


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## clavichorder

violadude said:


> I love pretty much all his symphonies more or less, some more than others I guess. But I probably would name the third or fourth as my favorite ultimately. The 1st is my least favorite and I kind of don't understand the hype surrounding its finale. IMO, it's probably one of the weakest movements out of all of them. I think the second is underrated.


I agree about the finale of the 1st, but I also think the 1st movement of the 1st is one of his greatest symphonic movements.


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## violadude

clavichorder said:


> I agree about the finale of the 1st, but I also think the 1st movement of the 1st is one of his greatest symphonic movements.


That is a great movement.


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## Cheyenne

It's a hard choice. The first and fourth have the greatest finales -- I am here thinking especially of Furtwängler's 1945 finale only recording of the first and his tumultuous 1943 recording of the fourth. Actually the second has a great finale too! ..





(Part 2)

The third is the most emotionally charged for me, and has one of my favorite melodies of all time. That gentle oboe is so touching!


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## hpowders

SeptimalTritone said:


> You guys...
> 
> The second is the best.


I used to like the second but now find the final coda "unconvincing".


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## Skilmarilion

They're all excellent -- but for me, the Fourth is on a different level.


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## tdc

I'm listening to Brahms 2 conducted by Bohm, and I've now realized I too love _all_ the Brahms Symphonies, don't know when that happened exactly. They snuck up on me. I'm thinking I'm going to have to pick up the Klemperer full set. Kleiber's 4th seems pretty great too, I wonder if he recorded the others...


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## MagneticGhost

That's the thing with Brahms - he sneeks up on you. I didn't realise he was one of my absolute favourites until I hit 40. 
You go back to him after not listening for a few years and realise he is essential. Top Tier!!

May I recommend the DG complete works boxset to any other lovers!


2nd for me - it's perfection


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## hpowders

That holds true for all the great composers I find. Put 'em away for a while and come back to them, one falls in love all over again!!!


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## starthrower

I've yet to warm up to any of them. Maybe some day?


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## Cheyenne

starthrower said:


> I've yet to warm up to any of them. Maybe some day?


I can vouch for warming to Brahms -- I recall going through his symphonies the first time and nearly falling asleep. They felt like vague, cold clusters of sounds with nothing memorable. It is difficult now to even recall; but I know it was once so.


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## tgtr0660

The 4th just a hair above the 1st a couple of hairs above the 3rd quite a full wig above the 2nd.


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## Vaneyes

Cheyenne said:


> I can vouch for warming to Brahms -- *I recall going through his symphonies the first time and nearly falling asleep*. They felt like vague, cold clusters of sounds with nothing memorable. It is difficult now to even recall; but I know it was once so.


Doesn't quite qualify as an epiphany. Most likely, different interps.


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## Vaneyes

starthrower said:


> I've yet to warm up to any of them. Maybe some day?


I'm gonna put you in my clothes-dryer, I am, I am.

{This message is brought to you by the Brahms Foundation of Fairplay}


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## hpowders

I took to Brahms right away when I was around 15. The first and fourth symphonies, two piano concertos, violin concerto.

Now....hardly listen to these.

As I've matured as an adult (debatable in itself!), I'm more into smaller instrumental forces-chamber and solo piano music.
My favorite Brahms at the moment is the Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel for piano.

More and more introspective and introverted I've become in my listening...with an occasional Mahler 6 or 8 thrown in.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Brahms's homage to Beethoven in his 1st does get me. I find his treatment of the melody more appealing than the original somehow. You can also tell he loved Beethoven's music, as he treats it with great respect. Brahms also revered Haydn, earns him big bonus points .


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## 20centrfuge

Whichever I'm listening to, though on the whole I'd have to say Number 3. Too many beautiful moments.


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## donnie a

Looking at the vote, I'm astonished that No. 2 came in so far behind the others; it's my favorite by far, though I love the other three as well.


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## QuietGuy

I like the 1st. The famous C Major melody has great dignity and solemnity, and I've always liked it for that reason.


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## MagneticGhost

Can I just pop in again to bemoan the bewildering lack of love for No.2 - It really is brilliant and I am at a complete loss to why you guys are all wrong and I'm right. <shakes head> Bewildered I say!!


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## donnie a

MagneticGhost said:


> Can I just pop in again to bemoan the bewildering lack of love for No.2 - It really is brilliant and I am at a complete loss to why you guys are all wrong and I'm right. <shakes head> Bewildered I say!!


I shake my head along with you. Totally puzzling. These guys just need to listen to it again.


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## Blake

I think they're all some of the greatest works in the genre.


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## donnie a

Blake said:


> I think they're all some of the greatest works in the genre.


Yes, all four towering masterpieces-no question about that.


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## phlrdfd

I agree that all four are masterpieces. I don't listen to them quite as often as I used to, but that's more a result of overplaying them when I was younger than anything else. I used to periodically go entire weekends listening to nothing but the four Brahms symphonies. My three favorite symphony composers are my own version of the three Bs: Beethoven, Brahms and Bruckner (from what I've read, I don't think Brahms would appreciate being lumped in with Bruckner).


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## hpowders

The Fourth is Brahms' greatest but I also like the First. I don't care for either Two or Three.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Since I see the original question---"What is Brahms greatest Symphony"---as vague, I can only say which is my favorite, and that would be his #3. Originally, is was my least favorite of the four.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Der Siebente Kontinent said:


> The Third, no question. I heard it for the first time when I was staying with my grandparents. It blew my mind away, and made me love my grandfather even more for introducing me with such beautiful music. favourite recording is Karl Böhm with the WPO.


For me, beauty is the word as well. In particular, the second movement andante conveys a wonderful serenity. The third movement poco allegretto is nostalgically romantic, while the closing portion of final movement's allegro conjures a glorious twilight. Kempe/Berlin, Kertesz/Vienna, Klemperer/Philharmonia and Tennstedt/London Philharmonic all offer great satisfaction in their interpretations of this marvelously variegated work.


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## Manxfeeder

From these comments, I've jumped into the Third. It is interesting because it recalls Schumann's Rhenish Symphony in its opening; it looks back to Schubert in the beginning of the fourth movement, where it has a whole section which is such a segue, it could be cut out without anyone noticing; and it looks forward to Schoenberg at the end of the second movement with its Klangfarbenmelodie.


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## Heck148

Manxfeeder said:


> From these comments, I've jumped into the Third. It is interesting because it recalls Schumann's Rhenish Symphony in its opening;


Brahms quotes Schumann directly with the first theme of Sym #3...IIRC, Schumann used that motif in both Sym #1, and Sym #3.


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## madclarinetist

I am going to have to go with the 3rd as my favorite, I love how he added some variations on his lullaby theme into it!


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## violadude

Madi Childs said:


> I am going to have to go with the 3rd as my favorite, I love how he added some variations on his lullaby theme into it!


I think you're thinking of the 2nd.


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## Brahmsianhorn

drpraetorus said:


> none. Brahms is too academic and not emotional enough


LOL. We now have a thread saying Brahms is too sentimental.


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## Heck148

Brahmsianhorn said:


> LOL. We now have a thread saying Brahms is too sentimental.


:lol::lol: it must be that ole Johannes changed his style over the recent years!! lol!!


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## Art Rock

Art Rock said:


> Voted for the 3d. On another day I might vote for any of the three others, they are all great.


That was over nine years ago. I would now pick the 4th, just over the 3d.


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## Animal the Drummer

Surprised but pleased to see no.3 lead the field (if only just). Like others here I've loved it from the first time I heard it - the others not so much (had to work harder on those) though I enjoy them too.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

They're all so distinct from each other, it doesn't seem fair to compare.


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## Brahmsian Colors

It's been over five years since I last commented in this thread. The Third still satisfies me most of all. My favorite interpretations, alphabetically, are: Barbirolli/Vienna Philharmonic, Jochum/Berlin Philharmonic, Jochum/London Philharmonic, Kempe/Berlin Philharmonic, Klemperer/Philharmonia, Solti/Chicago Symphony and Walter/Columbia Symphony. All of them offer rewarding listening experiences for me.

For reading, here are some of my favorite books on the composer>>>> _Johannes Brahms_ by Jan Swafford; _Brahms_ by Malcolm MacDonald;_ Brahms and His World_ edited by Walter Frisch and _The Life of Brahms_ by Florence May.


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## Waehnen

Could you please tell me what is it about the 3rd Symphony so many find spectacular?

The 1st, 2nd and 4th Symphony have like the best themes in their 1st Movements.

I find the main theme of the 3rd Symphony´s 1st Movement uninspiring. Just like I find the 1st Movement of the C Major Piano Trio uninspiring.

(Luckily there are not all that many uninspiring moments in Brahms music.)


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## Brahmsian Colors

Waehnen said:


> Could you please tell me what is it about the 3rd Symphony so many find spectacular?
> 
> The 1st, 2nd and 4th Symphony have like the best themes in their 1st Movements.
> 
> I find the main theme of the 3rd Symphony´s 1st Movement uninspiring. Just like I find the 1st Movement of the C Major Piano Trio uninspiring.
> 
> (Luckily there are not all that many uninspiring moments in Brahms music.)


Well, spectacular would be one of the least likely words I would use to describe what it is I see in the Third Symphony that keeps me so strongly drawn to it. In fact, it's mainly visual images and feelings relating to nature, fantasy, warmth, wonder, splendor, bittersweetness, mystery, empathy, loveliness, spirituality, (without religious connotations) etc,. I experience much of the same with other Brahms' works as well. I cannot speak for others, but would not be surprised if some of them identified with me in similar fashion. Of course, so many of us are well aware about how our feelings toward various pieces of music can change. The Third was once my least favorite of the lot. The time might come when your own personal feelings might experience a preferential shift too.


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## Kreisler jr

I love the outer movements of the 3rd and like the andante but don't care about the famous 3rd movement (it's my least favorite of all 16 symphonic Brahms movements). The beginning is just bursting with energy, nothing of the "melancholy", restrained or whatever Brahms. I also find the development section brilliant and poetic because the two themes completely change their character. The bucolic clarinet theme becomes dramatic, almost menacing and the energetic 1st theme turns lyrical and pensive. 

The finale also has a incredible amount of both material and contrasting moods compressed within a rather brief movement and at the climax one of the most dramatic passages (with the chorale from the slow movement becoming apocalyptic). I am a bit less fond of the andante with the serenade-style beginning getting more serious as it progresses and don't care for the plaintive melancholy of the Aimez-vous, Brahms intermezzo (no, I saw that movie only long after I heard the symphony, and saw it only once, so it's not coloring my opinion).

I really struggle picking a favorite among Brahms' symphonies, maybe the 4th after all, although I am not too fond of the 3rd movement either. I appreciate the contrast and the irony of having a quasi-finale "revoked" by the tragic real finale (almost a bit like Tchaikovsky's 6th) but the contrast in mood is a bit jarring and I also tend to find some passages a bit silly. I also love the first two symphonies, the 2nd lacks a bit true highlights for me. The first has plenty of highlights but the overall dramaturgy and the finale seem a bit flawed (all on an extremely high level of course). Still, another candidate for my favorite.


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## RobertJTh

1: never been my favorite, always found it rather artificially dramatic, foursquare and monochromatic. But lately I've been warming up to it. I saw a marvelous performance on TV by Barenboim in Oxford with the BPO, and it had me on the edge of my seat. For me, the success very much depends on the quality of the performance and the choices made by the conductor, it's not a piece that "plays itself".

2: the first movement is probably my favorite movement in all of Brahms. I fondly remember Carlos Kleiber's performance with the VPO, there was real magic in the air there. The other movements I find slightly less convincing.

3: my favorite and the most compact, cohesive and formally perfect of the four. Intensely gripping from start to finish.

4: I agree with Kreisler above about the jarring mood contrast between the 3rd and 4th movements. The 3rd movement never sounds like it's an integral part of the symphony, not even in the best performances. That kind of ruins the complete experience for me, which is a shame because the first two movements are gorgeous (who would have thought that Brahms could make one of the most beautiful romantic melodies out of a simple succession of 7 descending thirds?) and of course the chaconne is marvellous too (but just a bit too short to provide a weighty conclusion to the piece - I always wish it would be 4 or 5 minutes longer!)


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## Animal the Drummer

Interested in your reference to that Barenboim performance with the BPO. When I was still at school in the early 1970s a group of us attended a concert in Coventry where the same forces played no.2 (and Schumann 4). Wonder if that was part of the same tour.


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## Waehnen

Thanks for your thoughts on why you like the 3rd best!

For me the first movements of all 1st, 2nd and 4th Symphony are amongst the finest symphonic movements ever. Because the 3rd in it´s straighforwardness (is that English?) is somewhat lacking in that perspective, it falls behind in my ears.

Like always, I am more than happy if I am later proven wrong to the advantage of some great music!


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## RobertJTh

Animal the Drummer said:


> Interested in your reference to that Barenboim performance with the BPO. When I was still at school in the early 1970s a group of us attended a concert in Coventry where the same forces played no.2 (and Schumann 4). Wonder if that was part of the same tour.


I didn't know realize Barenboim conducted the BPO so early in his career already! Must have been a great happening.
But this was from much later, in 2010, when the BPO visited Oxford for their annual "Europa Konzert". I saw it on TV, the concert (with Brahms 1, Elgar's cello concerto and Wagner's Meistersinger Act 3 prelude) is available on DVD and BD as well.
As said, I liked it a lot, specially the Brahms 1 was amazing. I wonder if his recent complete cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin is worth owning?


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## Rogerx

I like the 4th the most first time I heard it I saw it.
Never forgotten


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## Animal the Drummer

RobertJTh said:


> I didn't know realize Barenboim conducted the BPO so early in his career already! Must have been a great happening.
> But this was from much later, in 2010, when the BPO visited Oxford for their annual "Europa Konzert". I saw it on TV, the concert (with Brahms 1, Elgar's cello concerto and Wagner's Meistersinger Act 3 prelude) is available on DVD and BD as well.
> As said, I liked it a lot, specially the Brahms 1 was amazing. I wonder if his recent complete cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin is worth owning?


Don't know, mijnheer. Might just have to investigate! :tiphat:


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