# Atrocious Violin Playing



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Full of squeaking, bland melodic ideas, poor intonation all adding up to make this awful. And he probably makes much more than any Classically Trained Violinist; I used to be a fan of the Dave Matthews Band in my younger days, but I always thought Boyd should have been a fitness trainer instead.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Full of squeaking, bland melodic ideas, poor intonation all adding up to make this awful. And he probably makes much more than any Classically Trained Violinist; I used to be a fan of the Dave Matthews Band in my younger days, but I always thought Boyd should have been a fitness trainer instead.


That guy is a professional? Besides the technical problems, his solo is meandering and seems to rely tediously on the pentatonic scale.

However, he dresses cool and acts like he knows what he's doing, so I'm sure most people don't pay attention to anything else.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I kept waiting for a steam locomotive to barrel through Michael Jordan’s Grand-Central-Station-size “steakhouse” in the above video.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Heck, he's great compared to this:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> Heck, he's great compared to this:


 The fact that she thinks it is so great makes it that much worse.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> Heck, he's great compared to this:


Yeh, but she's at least in favor of World Peace.


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

She just needed a little more rosin on the violin, that's all.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

mbhaub said:


> Heck, he's great compared to this:


She's had too happy a childhood.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

There is a saying in bluegrass music; when you listen to it, you are listening to _the man _as much as the music. Consider this when listening to so-called 'folk' or 'primitive' music. Have a modicum of respect, and remember that _music is an expression of one's being._ 
I think it's bad form to present music simply to ridicule it, or denigrate it. There is something to be learned from all music, no matter what form it is in.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> There is a saying in bluegrass music; when you listen to it, you are listening to _the man _as much as the music. Consider this when listening to so-called 'folk' or 'primitive' music. Have a modicum of respect, and remember that _music is an expression of one's being._
> I think it's bad form to present music simply to ridicule it, or denigrate it. There is something to be learned from all music, no matter what form it is in.


Are you saying you like what Mr. Tinsley was doing?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> There is a saying in bluegrass music; when you listen to it, you are listening to _the man _as much as the music. Consider this when listening to so-called 'folk' or 'primitive' music. Have a modicum of respect, and remember that _music is an expression of one's being._
> I think it's bad form to present music simply to ridicule it, or denigrate it. There is something to be learned from all music, no matter what form it is in.


I get your point - apart from the violin intonation faults, that one really has to ignore, it´s a nice little video, and one does get an impression of the musical culture/ongoings. Hopefully he had more precision in his earlier years.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> Are you saying you like what Mr. Tinsley was doing?


No, not really; plus I'm really not into Dave Matthews that much. I've got 5 of his albums I found used, but I never took much time with them. Too much stuff. I do respect him for fronting a band with an acoustic guitar, and it's not overly-commercial. There is apparently some aspect of DMB that appeals to me, like the jazz-improvisation aspect of it. It has a certain looseness that initially attracted me.

I'm able to look past the technical, and that's why I like The Velvet Underground. If there is a discernible aesthetic, that's what you have to get at; the "essence" of music is not always on the surface.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> Are you saying you like what Mr. Tinsley was doing?


I like it.

It's the sort of thing you can hear people play in the streets and metro stations of European cities every day, only last week I heard music very much like this on a horn violin in Belgium. In that context at least I appreciate it, I think I would have appreciated it in Grand Central Station.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

millionrainbows said:


> I'm able to look past the technical, and that's why I like The Velvet Underground. If there is a discernible aesthetic, that's what you have to get at; the "essence" of music is not always on the surface.


I agree with that. Music doesn't have to be technically perfect to be good. I have always called it being honest, but I suppose "essence' is a better description.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> I like it.


Looking at the YouTube comments, it seems that they're as divided in their opinions on this as we are.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> There is a saying in bluegrass music; when you listen to it, you are listening to _the man _as much as the music. Consider this when listening to so-called 'folk' or 'primitive' music. Have a modicum of respect, and remember that _music is an expression of one's being._
> I think it's bad form to present music simply to ridicule it, or denigrate it. There is something to be learned from all music, no matter what form it is in.


It's to some extent dependent on genre. With bluegrass, that slightly off-key sound is very much a part of the style, and part of its charm. I'd go as far as to say with bluegrass, you _have _to play it like that. Play a Mozart violin concerto like that, and it will be unlistenable.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

My vote goes to Ilya Gringolts.






Compare the playing in _that_ recording with that of your favorite violinist, say Perlman or Bell or Shaham (all of which can be heard on youtube vids). I'm not surprised that Gringolts seems to be hiding behind his instrument in the cover photo of the album. I'd probably want to hide too if I were a professional who played like that. What did poor Sibelius ever do to Gringolts to deserve such a performance?

I actually purchased this recording after hearing it on a radio broadcast because I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wanted a "comparison" disc for my collection to illustrate what the Sibelius concerto should _not_ sound like.

I can take Bluegrass fiddlin', Celtic or Swedish folk fiddling, or Boyd Tinsley. Even beginner violinists at their elementary school recitals. That level of playing is certainly forgivable, especially if one of the performers is one's granddaughter. (Ok, I'll admit that the sound from Miss Mississippi 2016 is rather unforgivable! Probably would be even if she were my granddaughter!) But what I really can't take is Ilya Gringolts.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

They're both better than me


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

He's clearly trained in the fiddle tradition, not classical. Not the greatest fiddle player too, but not atrocious. I've heard much, MUCH worse (e.g Miss Mississippi just now, thanks very much for that mbhaub)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> My vote goes to Ilya Gringolts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This must be the most stupefyingly dull and meaningless performance of anything I've ever heard. Any real musician would make it more interesting sight-reading it for the first time. You've done us a service here: we can all now safely avoid any recordings by Ilya Gringolts.

POSTSCRIPT: A review on Amazon says he was "only" 21 when he recorded this.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Gordontrek said:


> They're both better than me


No video proof, please, I beg you . . .


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> I agree with that. Music doesn't have to be technically perfect to be good. I have always called it being honest, but I suppose "essence' is a better description.


Im not one to poo poo a performance because the violinist screws up one spicato - Ive seen Ricci on a youtbve video mess up one or two moments in what is otherwise spellbinding playing.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> I agree with that. Music doesn't have to be technically perfect to be good. I have always called it being honest, but I suppose "essence' is a better description.





stomanek said:


> Im not one to poo poo a performance because the violinist screws up one spicato - Ive seen Ricci on a youtbve video mess up one or two moments in what is otherwise spellbinding playing.


If music is indeed an imitation of life, of humanness itself (to abstract Aristotle from his _Poetics_), then humanness, with its included flaws, must remain a part of it. Human music is flawed, yes, but also warm and real. Machine generated music (which is likely to get each beat in perfect rhythm, each note in perfect frequency, each timbre with a perfect sameness) must be cold and surreal. Critics often point out the mechanical features of certain players who seem to be "perfect" but lack that _something_ we term "humanness" in their performances. (I've read such comments about Heifetz and Lang Lang, to name two. And many of us remain non-fans of Karajan's digital performances because, can we say, they are too mechanical?)

I don't mind rough edges on music that is otherwise played with insight, depth, and meaning ... and affection. Which is why I often champion lesser known, smaller orchestras and less familiar but competent and dedicated conductors for the Beethoven symphonies. Beethoven the way Beethoven himself may have heard the music, not played by highly skilled, modern, conservative trained musicians on the most exacting of instruments, but rather fleshed out by players with late 18th century training and instruments that cannot rival our modern-day "improvements".

Of course, incompetence is still incompetence, and will maintain music being unlistenable. But lack of perfection where truth is sincerely (or even ironically) sought cannot be a totally awful thing.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Tallisman said:


> He's clearly trained in the fiddle tradition, not classical. Not the greatest fiddle player too, but not atrocious. I've heard much, MUCH worse (e.g Miss Mississippi just now, thanks very much for that mbhaub)


He was Classically trained, in fact.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

SONNET CLV said:


> If music is indeed an imitation of life, of humanness itself (to abstract Aristotle from his _Poetics_), then humanness, with its included flaws, must remain a part of it. Human music is flawed, yes, but also warm and real. Machine generated music (which is likely to get each beat in perfect rhythm, each note in perfect frequency, each timbre with a perfect sameness) must be cold and surreal. Critics often point out the mechanical features of certain players who seem to be "perfect" but lack that _something_ we term "humanness" in their performances. (I've read such comments about Heifetz and Lang Lang, to name two. And many of us remain non-fans of Karajan's digital performances because, can we say, they are too mechanical?)
> 
> I don't mind rough edges on music that is otherwise played with insight, depth, and meaning ... and affection. Which is why I often champion lesser known, smaller orchestras and less familiar but competent and dedicated conductors for the Beethoven symphonies. Beethoven the way Beethoven himself may have heard the music, not played by highly skilled, modern, conservative trained musicians on the most exacting of instruments, but rather fleshed out by players with late 18th century training and instruments that cannot rival our modern-day "improvements".
> 
> Of course, incompetence is still incompetence, and will maintain music being unlistenable. But lack of perfection where truth is sincerely (or even ironically) sought cannot be a totally awful thing.


That's all fine, but the main thing is as a listener it to decide if you like it or dislike it and to derive the reasons why. I see nothing wrong with posting why you dislike something as someone mentioned above.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

For fun not condemnation. "Mah... MAH... MAH!"


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Try this instead.








Logos said:


> She just needed a little more rosin on the violin, that's all.


Rosin brings one of my favorite songs to mind.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Of course, there's always this player, too:






Fortunately he has that Strad to keep him in tune.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Bear in mind a pianist of similar skill to a lot of these scrapy violinists will sound quite reasonable.


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