# What is the best approach to perform Bach Cantatas?



## JSBach85

I know this kind of discussion is pretty controversial but please, is not my intention to bother anyone, just having a nice debate.

I have been listening Bach cantatas and I am fascinated about them. Bach cantatas form an exceptional body of work, excellent contrapuntal techniques and remarkable choruses. Most of them have survived and also have been recorded by a great number of performers.

Joshua Rifkin, an American conductor and musicologist, published a thesis stating that Bach vocal music was performed with only one singer per voice part (OVPP). The idea has become widely influential, the conductor Andrew Parrott wrote a book about this. Currently there are more conductors performing Bach vocal works using some form of the vocal scoring argued for by Rifkin (OVPP), while others use larger choirs. Since I am confused about what is the most accurate and better approach to perform Bach Cantatas: OVPP (one voice per part) or larger choirs, I have been listening recordings using both criteria.

What do you think is the best criteria to perform Bach cantatas? Which one do you prefer to listen to? Which conductors/performers are your favourites?


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## Bulldog

I don't have a preference, feeling that the quality of the performers is much more significant.

As for favorites: Herreweghe, Gardiner and Suzuki.


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## Bruckner Anton

I don't have a problem whether a performance is HIP or not. I like both the old-fashioned Karl Richter and Gardiner.


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## Pugg

The most complicated topic ever.


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## JSBach85

Pugg said:


> The most complicated topic ever.


Because Bach is the most fascinating but also the most complicated composer ever.


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## JSBach85

Bulldog said:


> I don't have a preference, feeling that the quality of the performers is much more significant.
> 
> As for favorites: Herreweghe, Gardiner and Suzuki.


Every of them uses larger choirs (various voices per part). Personally I prefer Herreweghe and Suzuki over Gardiner.


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## Pugg

JSBach85 said:


> Because Bach is the most fascinating but also the most complicated composer ever.


Exactly what I mean, some adore him others load him.


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## Azol

> What is the best approach to perform Bach Cantatas?


Well, a comfy chair, a cup of tea and a good stereo system to me seems like the most wonderful way of performing Bach Cantatas.


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## JSBach85

Azol said:


> Well, a comfy chair, a cup of tea and a good stereo system to me seems like the most wonderful way of performing Bach Cantatas.


What about a glass of whine, a plate of jabugo ham and freshly baked bread?


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## Picander

I think in Catholic music the chorus represents the congregation of the faithful, so (again in Catholicism) it wouldn't make sense to perform sacred choral music with only one singer per voice part. I don't know enough about Lutheranism, but I suspect that the chorus has a similar meaning in its sacred music.

Besides, Bach worked all his life with children as sopranos and altos singing in really big churchs, and I think it is impossible to bring enough sound to a church like, for instance, the Thomaskirche in Leipzig









with only two children (soprano and alto) and two boys (tenor and bass) singing the choral parts in a Cantata or a Passion.

Please excuse my English.


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## Woodduck

Composers used whatever forces they had at hand. The fact that choirs and orchestras were often small is no indication that composers preferred to hear their music that way. I don't know how many musicians Bach had to work with at various times, but his music adapts well to various ensembles. There's no need to talk of a "best" way. I've heard some small, male-only "authentic" ensembles that sound fine, and others that sound scrawny and insipid. Similarly, a large mixed choir can sound opaque and heavy or transparent, energetic and powerful. For example, I still love Karl Richter's recordings with his Munich Bach Choir and Orchestra; he fashioned his medium-sized choir of men and women into an instrument of extraordinary clarity and precision, his instrumentalists were virtuosi, and his outstanding soloists included women who didn't labor under some theory that singers of Baroque music need to chirp blandly and sexlessly like little boys (no offense, dear Emma Kirkby, but I'm glad not all Bach sopranos sound like you). Richter's B-Minor Mass, St. Matthew Passion, Magnificat and various cantatas occupy a happy middle-ground between Romanticism and HIP "correctness," they show an innate comprehension of Bach's aesthetic, and they are, for me, still unsurpassed (and rarely matched) in their musical beauty and emotional force.


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## jenspen

Picander said:


> I think in Catholic music the chorus represents the congregation of the faithful, so (again in Catholicism) it wouldn't make sense to perform sacred choral music with only one singer per voice part. I don't know enough about Lutheranism, but I suspect that the chorus has a similar meaning in its sacred music.
> 
> Besides, Bach worked all his life with children as sopranos and altos singing in really big churchs, and I think it is impossible to bring enough sound to a church like, for instance, the Thomaskirche in Leipzig
> 
> View attachment 92847
> 
> 
> with only two children (soprano and alto) and two boys (tenor and bass) singing the choral parts in a Cantata or a Passion.
> 
> Please excuse my English.


Have you come across this memo that Bach wrote to the Leipzig town council about his requirements (he had to divide the scholars of the Thomas--Schule up into choirs for 4 churches). :

* Every musical Choir should contain at least 3 Sopranos, 3 Altos, 3 Tenors, and as many basses,* so that even if one happens to fall ill (as very often happens, particularly at this time of year, as the prescriptions written by the school Physician for the Apothecary must show) at least a double-chorus motet may be sung. (Note: Though* it would be still better if the classes were such that one could have 4 singers on each part and thus could perform every chorus with 16 persons*).


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## Woodduck

jenspen said:


> Have you come across this memo that Bach wrote to the Leipzig town council about his requirements (he had to divide the scholars of the Thomas--Schule up into choirs for 4 churches). :
> 
> * Every musical Choir should contain at least 3 Sopranos, 3 Altos, 3 Tenors, and as many basses,* so that even if one happens to fall ill (as very often happens, particularly at this time of year, as the prescriptions written by the school Physician for the Apothecary must show) at least a double-chorus motet may be sung. (Note: Though* it would be still better if the classes were such that one could have 4 singers on each part and thus could perform every chorus with 16 persons*).


So it would appear that one voice per part was only a minimal requirement of performing the music at all. Not exactly the preferred ensemble!


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## hpowders

There is no "right" way or "wrong" way.

The Cantatas are adaptable: Could be a small choir, large choir, one part per person in place of a choir, large orchestra, small band, HIP performance practices, non-HIP, old-style.

However you want to hear the Bach Cantatas, there is a choice for everyone.


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## Pugg

JSBach85 said:


> What about a glass of whine, a plate of jabugo ham and freshly baked bread?


Sound good, I bring the wine.


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## Marc

Picander said:


> I think in Catholic music the chorus represents the congregation of the faithful, so (again in Catholicism) it wouldn't make sense to perform sacred choral music with only one singer per voice part. I don't know enough about Lutheranism, but I suspect that the chorus has a similar meaning in its sacred music.
> 
> Besides, Bach worked all his life with children as sopranos and altos singing in really big churchs, and I think it is impossible to bring enough sound to a church like, for instance, the Thomaskirche in Leipzig
> 
> View attachment 92847
> 
> 
> with only two children (soprano and alto) and two boys (tenor and bass) singing the choral parts in a Cantata or a Passion.
> 
> Please excuse my English.


Poor boys and children who had to sing the solo recitatives and arias, then. 
No one would be able to hear them.


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