# 200 Years of Music at Versailles



## Elgarian

This astonishing 20CD box set has been mentioned in various places already, but since at least two of us using this forum already own one, and since there are years of listening in it, I thought it might be a good idea to make a thread specifically for it, so that anyone can add comments about individual pieces as and when they see fit.

If you're tempted, you can buy it on Amazon, currently for less than £50, here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Versailles-200-Years-Music-20cd/dp/B001AUKJKU/ref=pd_sim_m_h__3

Also, there's a website devoted to it, where you can hear samples:
http://www.baroqueboxset.com/acceuil.html

The recording quality of everything I've listened to so far is first rate. The performances were all recorded at a variety of venues, at or near Versailles, and the acoustics (as far as one can tell) seem to have been captured very convincingly, creating a lovely atmosphere.

I should say that this is entirely new territory for me; it's a real exploration, and I'm woefully ignorant of the background. However, here's a start. Today I've been listening to the sixth CD - or rather, mainly the first 12 minutes of the sixth CD. This is Francois Couperin's "Third Lesson of Darkness for the Wednesday Saint". I'm not sure I've translated that correctly, but it's the best I can do for the moment. Written for two treble voices, this is sung by Patricia Petitbon and Sophie Daneman (accompanied by Les Arts Florissants) and surely they must have had vocal coaching in Heaven to sing like this? I've never heard anything by Couperin before, but this is marvellous stuff. Everything seems understated, perfect in relation to everything else. Words like pure, crystalline, heavenly, are the ones that come to mind. I put it on repeat, and listened to it three times over.

Only the third 'lesson' is on this disc - I presume that the first and second lessons must also exist, somewhere? One day, I shall have to seek them out.


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## jhar26

So far I've only listened to the first six discs. I've listened to each of those two or three times though. I always do that with (to me) new music. I move through them slowly, giving each one the attention it deserves before I move on to the next thing. I agree with your assessment. For anyone who likes baroque music this is a great bargain. And especially for those who listen mostly to German and Italian baroque music it's a great opportunity for filling a gap in ones collection with one buy.


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## Elgarian

I'm not being as methodical as you are, but I too am taking it slowly. Already I can see I'm going to have to listen to some more Lully (though goodness knows when, with all this present stuff to listen to). I noticed in _Gramophone_ this month that there's a highly recommended recording of Lully's _Proserpine_ just out. I didn't even know he'd composed such a thing, and probably would have just passed over it, previously. This is the great power of this collection - it's extending my musical horizons with every listen.


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## Elgarian

OK ... I have a very naive question. When I visit the website here, I'm greeted by a terrific piece of music which I feel I ought to be able to identify, but can't. Worse, I haven't yet encountered it on any of the CDs. Can you, Gaston - or anyone else - put me out of my misery? Please? What is it, who is it by, and where is it in the set?


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## opus67

Elgarian said:


> OK ... I have a very naive question. When I visit the website here, I'm greeted by a terrific piece of music which I feel I ought to be able to identify, but can't. Worse, I haven't yet encountered it on any of the CDs. Can you, Gaston - or anyone else - put me out of my misery? Please? What is it, who is it by, and where is it in the set?


Niccolo Piccini
Didone abbandonata
CD 15 - Italians at the French Court


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## Elgarian

opus67 said:


> Niccolo Piccini
> Didone abbandonata
> CD 15 - Italians at the French Court


You, Sir, are a Superwizz! Thank you. Since I haven't ventured beyond CD12 yet, it's hardly surprising that I haven't picked it up.... It's that thing called impatience.


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## Elgarian

Elgarian said:


> the first 12 minutes of the sixth CD. This is Francois Couperin's "Third Lesson of Darkness for the Wednesday Saint". I'm not sure I've translated that correctly


Indeed, I had not. It should be 'for Ash Wednesday'.


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## Elgarian

With 70 CDs of baroque music to listen to (20 CDs here, and 50 in the Deutsche Harmonia Mundi set), I've been neglecting Versailles of late, in favour of the DHM package. So today I plopped CD13 into the player (_La Chapelle Royale au temps de Louis XV_) and listened to the _Confitebor tibi domine_ by André Campra, and the _Nisi Dominus_ by Jean-Joseph Cassanéa de Mondonville. Utterly splendid, both - I was particularly taken by the Cassanéa de Mondonville piece, which had me on my feet and striding about waving my arms at one point. It's not possible to talk of this music in terms of _pleasure_; it has to be spoken of in terms of _joy_. There's something so buoyant, so life-affirming about it, that one of the predominant feelings I notice within myself is one of plain gratitude. I guess these guys had bad days like the rest of us, yet you'd hardly guess so. They've poured so much positive energy into this music that one can't help but pick some of it up.

You can hear a snippet of the _Nisi Dominus_ here. Click 'CD 13' and hit the 'Listen' button.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> With 70 CDs of baroque music to listen to (20 CDs here, and 50 in the Deutsche Harmonia Mundi set), I've been neglecting Versailles of late, in favour of the DHM package.


It's been a few days since I played something new from either set. I've been playing a few opera dvd's (the ones in the "latest purchases" thread) and today I was in a pop/rock/soul mood (Sly & the Family Stone, Dusty Springfield). I'll get back into the box sets soon though. They would make good items to take to that desert island of that other thread - especially if they only count for two items and we can take twenty.


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## LindenLea

I think this is where this forum really comes into it's own, it's quite possible I would never have been aware of this Versailles set if I hadn't read about it here, it looks extremely mouth-watering. 

My family have for 30 years or more been under strict instructions not to waste their time and money on anything other than record tokens for me at Christmas time, they know that even if they bought me a new lawnmower or a new winter coat I'd probably only sell it on E-Bay and spend the procedes on CD's, so it's a safe bet that I will be putting some of my vouchers towards this in the New Year. So I'll report back with my findings! 

I'd certainly go for this over the DHM extravaganza mentioned elsewhere, I'm attracted to the fact that many of the works here are fairly obscure and I enjoy discovering new pieces.


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## Elgarian

LindenLea said:


> they know that even if they bought me a new lawnmower or a new winter coat I'd probably only sell it on E-Bay and spend the procedes on CD's, so it's a safe bet that I will be putting some of my vouchers towards this in the New Year.


You could consider selling your existing lawnmower and coats and buying this with the proceeds _now_. You won't need them, because probably you won't be doing much else except listening to the CDs, for quite some time.


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## Elgarian

Elgarian said:


> I noticed in _Gramophone_ this month that there's a highly recommended recording of Lully's _Proserpine_ just out.


I listened to some bits of _Proserpine_ on You tube; thought, oh yes please; decided to buy one; then discovered that Amazon have sold out and it's 'temporarily unavailable'. Anyway, I've placed an order. These box sets could be the death of me. They seem to be leading me into an endless exponentional expansion of future purchases!


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## Elgarian

Right, that's it. Enough is enough. I'm writing a letter to the Complaints Desk of the Department of Life Advisory Service.

Dear Sir/Madam,

When I was but a lad, and starting to respond to things like _Scheherezade_, and _The Planets_, and the _Enigma Variations_, and _The Wasps_, I called at the Enquiries Desk of the Life Advisory Service and asked, 'what next?'. They said: 'Try Beethoven; Mozart; Haydn; Bach; Schubert; etc. These are the greats, they said. And I went away, and I listened and listened; but my goodness it was hard work. Only rarely did they really touch me, you know? I spent a lot of time listening to a lot of music that, in all honesty, I don't feel was written with a person like me in mind. So I ploughed my own furrow, and found a few new favourites of my own, like Wagner, and Sibelius, and Puccini. But those 'greats' that were recommended - despite all the time I spent on them, they never really worked for me, terribly well.

Now I understand all that. That's not my complaint. What I want to know - and here's my complaint, at last: why, why, why, did you never tell me about Lalande and Mondeville? And Couperin, and Durante? Why keep them such a closely guarded secret? Why did you think a young chap in his teens would have had no use for them? I feel robbed! I could have been living with these guys as companions for years - decades - if they hadn't been squirrelled away in the basement all this time.

So please, in future, TELL people what brilliant tunesmiths these guys were; TELL them their music can move us to tears, thrill us into marching about the room with a big grin, or leave us just plain shaking our heads at the sheer rich splendour of it all. Get them out of the basement and up onto the Ground Floor!

I am, 
Your Obd't Serv't,
etc. etc.

In case anyone reading this is wondering what the above is all about, I should explain that I've been listening to CD 14: _La Renaissance de L'Orchestre Francais._ Specifically, works by Lalande (_Les Folies de Cardenio_) and Mondonville (_Sonate en symphonies opus 3 nos and 6_). This music made me laugh. It made me cry. It made me get out my chair several times and march around the room conducting. It made me want to dance. It made me want to open the window and shout 'listen to this!' at the neighbours.

Try Lalande's 'Air des Combatants' - one minute of sheer exhilaration - and see if you can stay in your seat. Try the exquisite 'Air pour les flutes', and see if you don't find yourself thinking of a warm summer evening, soothed by gentle birdsong. Let that run into the 'Air pour les Indiens', and see if you can last 10 seconds without moving and swaying to the music. Ye Gods, the tunes! How about the 'Entrée des Matelots'? I've no idea who they are, but by golly I wish I could watch as well as hear their entrance. And for sheer rock & roll excitement, how can you possibly beat 'La Tempete', with its clashes of thunder, and its rushing rhythmic wind?

And if that's not enough, move on to Magnificent Mondonville. Listen to his 'Aria' (_andante gratioso_) from the _Sonate no 4_, with its lovely tune, its oh-so-delicate touches, its suggestion (perhaps) of loves lost and found: so beautiful that it hurts. Thinking (as you probably will) that it surely can't get any better, move on to the 'Larghetto' of the _Sonate no 6_, and feel the delicate ache of the thing. Then the 'Amoroso' that follows. Remember all the paintings by Watteau that you've seen: courtly love, dancing in the open air, _fetes champetres_. And then let Mondonville bring you home with a carefree romp to bring the piece - and the CD - to a close.

Where has this music been all my life? Why aren't chunks of this stuff climbing the popular music singles charts? It was worth buying this box (whose magnificence grows with every CD I play) just to make these discoveries, today.


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## jhar26

Well, I wouldn't expect them after you told 'em of your love for _The Planets_ or _Scheherezade_ to refer you to Durante or Couperin as the next thing you should check out, Elgarian. I also think that the popularity of baroque music has increased trmendously in the last three or four decades - probably as a result of the period instruments movement. But when you were a young chap some of the composers in these box sets were probably rarely - if ever, recorded.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> Well, I wouldn't expect them after you told 'em of your love for _The Planets_ or _Scheherezade_ to refer you to Durante or Couperin as the next thing you should check out, Elgarian. I also think that the popularity of baroque music has increased trmendously in the last three or four decades - probably as a result of the period instruments movement. But when you were a young chap some of the composers in these box sets were probably rarely - if ever, recorded.


Oh yes, I know, of course. I was just having a bit of fun and exaggerating everything in sight; and Beethoven and Mozart are big enough to absorb the joke. But even though the Life Advisory Service is a flippant invention of my own, there is a serious point lurking underneath it all. I don't understand how it would have come about that such marvellous music could ever have become so neglected. It seems so much more readily _approachable_, in comparison to much of what's usually recommended to anyone starting out with classical music.

Of course if you were to insist on my being really serious for a moment, then I suppose the answer to my question is that for many people, it simply doesn't make the startling impact that it's made on me.


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## Elgarian

The adventure continues. Today it was the turn of CD12, and more De Mondonville: _Dominus Regnavit_. I'm running out of ways of talking about this man's music, and certainly I'm running out of superlatives for expressing the beauty of the two entwining soprano voices in 'Parata sedes', the wild exhilaration of 'Elevaverunt flumina', the almost painfully lovely singing that opens 'Testimonia tua', and the sonorous grandeur of the 'Gloria Patri'. Twice I had to get up and walk around the room, shaking my head at the sheer unanswerable magnificence of what I was hearing.

I can't quite believe all this - so much new music, hitting me so hard, day after day. To find a precedent in terms of impact, I'd have to go back more than 30 years, when the box set of Bohm's _Ring_ arrived, and I wondered, as each LP revealed yet more new rich imaginative treasures, whether I'd ever get to the bottom of it all.

What a fantastic experience this is proving to be.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> The adventure continues. Today it was the turn of CD12, and more De Mondonville: _Dominus Regnavit_. I'm running out of ways of talking about this man's music, and certainly I'm running out of superlatives for expressing the beauty of the two entwining soprano voices in 'Parata sedes', the wild exhilaration of 'Elevaverunt flumina', the almost painfully lovely singing that opens 'Testimonia tua', and the sonorous grandeur of the 'Gloria Patri'. Twice I had to get up and walk around the room, shaking my head at the sheer unanswerable magnificence of what I was hearing.
> 
> I can't quite believe all this - so much new music, hitting me so hard, day after day. To find a precedent in terms of impact, I'd have to go back more than 30 years, when the box set of Bohm's _Ring_ arrived, and I wondered, as each LP revealed yet more new rich imaginative treasures, whether I'd ever get to the bottom of it all.
> 
> What a fantastic experience this is proving to be.


Well, that's just wonderful, Alan. It's sort of the same experience I had many years ago when I first got into the Mozart operas or "Der Rosenkavalier." It was like, "this is not possible, music this beautiful doesn't exist." I think that every member here has had moments like that (I hope so anyway) - that feeling of total connection, as though it's like the composer wrote this stuff especially for you. And the great thing is that there's so much great music out there that we'll continue to make discoveries for the rest of our lifes. We'll have to live for a very long time to be able to digest it all though.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> It's sort of the same experience I had many years ago when I first got into the Mozart operas or "Der Rosenkavalier." It was like, "this is not possible, music this beautiful doesn't exist."


Yes, that's it exactly. (_Rosenkavalier_ hit me in that same way too, at about the same time Wagner did.) The terrific aspect of this is that I'd begun to think that those really big startling perception-changing musical discoveries were probably behind me by now, but (whoopee) it isn't so.


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## Elgarian

I suppose that, strictly, this should go in the 'new purchases' thread, but since the purchases of both the items below have arisen purely because of the stimulation provided by the Versailles box set, I'm going to put it here because it seems to make more sense as part of the ongoing adventure.

First, I've discovered (oh joy!) that there are indeed two more of Couperin's 'Ash Wednesday' pieces available.










A copy of this is now winging its way to me among the post that won't arrive before Christmas. There are samples here, that threaten to tear your soul apart with their beauty.

There's more, but I'll have to say it later.


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## Elgarian

Continuing from the previous post ....

The second spin-off from the boxed set is this (just ordered):










which is available here, and which seems to be a budget collection of 4 CDs, previously released separately, and which (I think) includes this, and this, and this, plus one other (samples can be heard at the links).


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## jhar26

I've been listening to CD 8 today. I think that together with CD 3 (the Lully one) this is my fave of the bunch so far. Especially that Charpentier *Requiem* is very much to my liking. Maybe not as dramatic and/or spectacular as later requiems by Mozart, Berlioz or Brahms (to name but a few), but what gorgeous music. Very simple and modest but nevertheless moving and beautiful.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> Continuing from the previous post ....
> 
> The second spin-off from the boxed set is this (just ordered):
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> which is available here, and which seems to be a budget collection of 4 CDs, previously released separately, and which (I think) includes this, and this, and this, plus one other (samples can be heard at the links).


I see that I'm not the only one who enjoys the music of Mr Charpentier.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> I've been listening to CD 8 today. I think that together with CD 3 (the Lully one) this is my fave of the bunch so far.


I'm with you completely. CD 8 is another one of those where I find myself thinking it's worth having bought the set, just to discover this. And Charpentier is rapidly climbing up my personal French Baroque chart to join Couperin at the top.


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## Elgarian

Unless someone objects, I'd like to continue to explore outwards a bit from the actual box set; the point is that all these explorations are directly linked to discoveries made within the Versailles set. I have this image of a great wheel of French baroque, with the Versailles set at its hub, and exploratory spokes radiating outwards....

Anyway, the sad news is that I've had a lot of trouble getting hold of the Charpentier box I mentioned above, so I gave up and tracked down the original 4 CDs that comprised it. First among them is this:










Simply fabulous. Christie and Les Arts Florissants have this business perfectly sorted. The overture is a lovely thing, and the opening section, with the singing of Daphne and the chorus, seems as light as air and as delicate as a butterfly's wing. The part of Orphee himself is sung superbly well in my view, and I was shocked to discover that Charpentier's version of the myth stops with the release of Eurydice by Pluto. The tragic end, with Orpheus looking back as they leave the Underworld, is absent. Seems there may have been a third act which is now lost. Oh well. Nice to have a happy ending, unexpectedly!


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## Knaves13

I'm not sure if I should be happy about there being so many box sets or not. I just got the complete Mozart and Complete Bach and now I'm very tempted to buy this. I suppose I will after I finish listening to the other two sets.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> The adventure continues. Today it was the turn of CD12, and more De Mondonville: _Dominus Regnavit_. I'm running out of ways of talking about this man's music, and certainly I'm running out of superlatives for expressing the beauty of the two entwining soprano voices in 'Parata sedes', the wild exhilaration of 'Elevaverunt flumina', the almost painfully lovely singing that opens 'Testimonia tua', and the sonorous grandeur of the 'Gloria Patri'. Twice I had to get up and walk around the room, shaking my head at the sheer unanswerable magnificence of what I was hearing.


I've listened to CD 12 myself today and I share your enthusiasm. I don't understand how this Mondonville can be totally unknown - he is to me anyway. The Rameau piece is also very beautiful in my opnion, but that comes less as a surprise to me because I was already familiar with some of his music before I had this box set and the same goes for Lully and Charpentier. So Mondonville is after listening to the first twelve cd's the major discovery here for me. This cd is also the one with the best performances in my opinion - heavenly voices and none of that scratchy sound from the strings that you sometimes get from period instruments.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> I've listened to CD 12 myself today and I share your enthusiasm. I don't understand how this Mondonville can be totally unknown - he is to me anyway. The Rameau piece is also very beautiful in my opnion, but that comes less as a surprise to me because I was already familiar with some of his music before I had this box set and the same goes for Lully and Charpentier. So Mondonville is after listening to the first twelve cd's the major discovery here for me. This cd is also the one with the best performances in my opinion - heavenly voices and none of that scratchy sound from the strings that you sometimes get from period instruments.


I understand completely. My problem (oh, would that all my problems were like this) is simply that I can't cope with the frequency with which I've made discoveries through this box set. I'd no sooner found Rameau & Mondonville than I was bewitched by Couperin and Charpentier. I've been so busy delving into these two last gentlemen that poor old Mondonville is left sitting on the benches at the back of the room. Mais ne vous inquiètez pas, Monsieur De Mondonville. Your turn will come.

Anyway, I've now tracked down, and obtained, all four of the separate CDs that make up the Les Arts Florissants Charpentier box, plus another (very rare) item besides:










I was lucky enough to find one at an affordable price. There's no libretto, sadly, though the music is terrific and the synopsis is good enough to follow what's going on pretty well.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> I understand completely. My problem (oh, would that all my problems were like this) is simply that I can't cope with the frequency with which I've made discoveries through this box set. I'd no sooner found Rameau & Mondonville than I was bewitched by Couperin and Charpentier. I've been so busy delving into these two last gentlemen that poor old Mondonville is left sitting on the benches at the back of the room. Mais ne vous inquiètez pas, Monsieur De Mondonville. Your turn will come.


So much for for this box set being a bargain. If you include all the other cd's that you end up buying as a result it will cost you a fortune in the long run. 



> Anyway, I've now tracked down, and obtained, all four of the separate CDs that make up the Les Arts Florissants Charpentier box, plus another (very rare) item besides:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> I was lucky enough to find one at an affordable price.


Affordable price? Not someone from HongKong I hope.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> So much for for this box set being a bargain. If you include all the other cd's that you end up buying as a result it will cost you a fortune in the long run.


But they're the best kinds of bargains, aren't they?



> Affordable price? Not someone from HongKong I hope.


Fortunately, no! I got a secondhand one in very good condition for £6. Actually that _does_ seem to have been a real piece of luck, because the remaining four 2nd hand ones available on Amazon at this moment are going for £50 plus.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> I don't understand how this Mondonville can be totally unknown - he is to me anyway.


By saying this you reminded me that I have unfinished business with M. de Mondonville, so I took a look in the _Gramophone_ and _Penguin_ Guides. In _Gramophone_ he gets less than a single column (and just one CD recommended), and he fares not much better in _Penguin_. There seems to be very little of him around, which is incomprehensible, frankly, given the immediate accessibility of his music.

Anyway, Penguin lists this as a 'key' three-star recording:










It's available at a bargain price, so I've ordered one.


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## jhar26

Cool. Let me know your verdict once you've listened to it.


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## Elgarian

Mondonville hasn't arrived yet, but in the meantime I've discovered the _Musique d'Abord_ label - a budget label that reissues many of the finest baroque recording of recent decades, in budget format (some overlapping with the Versailles box set). The two CDs below, for instance, came together, post free, from Amazon at less than £4 each (see here and here). They're in elegant custom fold-over packages that are a delight to handle, with a booklet tucked into the front cover carrying notes and (in the case of the _Te Deum_), all the words with translations.










I'm coming to realise that anything done by Christie and Les Arts Florissants can be bought without further consideration, and this is a fine example. I had a conversation with a friend recently who mused about whether this French baroque music wasn't too 'artificial'. I knew what he meant (thinking of all those wigs, and foppery, and the meticulous ceremonial of the age), because I used to think so myself - although we both agreed that the idea made little sense once one thought about it seriously. After all, merely blowing down a tube to make a noise is nothing if not 'artificial'. But really, now, having been so immersed in this stuff, I find myself thinking that, far from being artificial, it has the smack of real life about it - I mean the way in which the deep and serious jostle continually with the trivial and frivolous. This is religious music, but it runs the whole gamut of emotions.

Second up comes this:










It seemed to me that what was good enough for Louis XIV should be good enough for me. This stuff was played to Louis day after day, apparently, specifically composed to accompany him while he ate. So I listened to it while eating my lunch (toasted tuna sandwiches) by the window, gazing out into the garden. I had no trace of indigestion afterwards, so there's clear proof that it works. Music to eat by. What better?


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## Elgarian

The Mondonville CD has arrived.










It kicks off with _Venite, Exultemus_, which is just fabulous. The tunes come pouring out, light, airy, and full of beauty, and although I had a reservation about Gillian Fisher at first (what I first thought might be 'thinness' became transformed into something better regarded as 'ethereality'), she won me over quickly and completely. There's a review of this CD at MusicWeb, here which puzzles me a bit. The reviewer talks about 'grand panegyrics and pomposity' in the _Venite_, but I don't hear that at all. On the contrary, it has me tapping my feet and swaying about like a tulip in a breeze.

The CD is worth having for the _Venite, Exultemus_ alone. The _De Profundis_ is more serious in tone (one would be worried if it were not!) and I'm glad to have it, though it's maybe not the highlight of the CD (though it may require a few more listenings to really get its measure). There are three other short pieces which (solo soprano with mainly harpsichord accompaniment) are a bit 'raw' for my taste but with lovely tunes and by no means unacceptable.

At under £7 on Amazon (post free) this is a great bargain; and the _Venite_ is a must-have, I think.


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## jhar26

Elgarian said:


> The Mondonville CD has arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It kicks off with _Venite, Exultemus_, which is just fabulous. The tunes come pouring out, light, airy, and full of beauty, and although I had a reservation about Gillian Fisher at first (what I first thought might be 'thinness' became transformed into something better regarded as 'ethereality'), she won me over quickly and completely. There's a review of this CD at MusicWeb, here which puzzles me a bit. The reviewer talks about 'grand panegyrics and pomposity' in the _Venite_, but I don't hear that at all. On the contrary, it has me tapping my feet and swaying about like a tulip in a breeze.
> 
> The CD is worth having for the _Venite, Exultemus_ alone. The _De Profundis_ is more serious in tone (one would be worried if it were not!) and I'm glad to have it, though it's maybe not the highlight of the CD (though it may require a few more listenings to really get its measure). There are three other short pieces which (solo soprano with mainly harpsichord accompaniment) are a bit 'raw' for my taste but with lovely tunes and by no means unacceptable.
> 
> At under £7 on Amazon (post free) this is a great bargain; and the _Venite_ is a must-have, I think.


Thanks for your review. What I find strange about the MusicWeb review is that it's only moderately positive but that the reviewer nevertheless gives the cd four stars.


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> Thanks for your review. What I find strange about the MusicWeb review is that it's only moderately positive but that the reviewer nevertheless gives the cd four stars.


I agree - the review is full of inconsistencies. But then, the CD, taken as a whole, seems inconsistent, varying from real delight in its highpoints (notably the first 25 minutes), to admittedly 'dullish' bits elsewhere. The 4-star rating is the right one though, in my opinion.


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## jhar26

Only three to go (18,19 & 20). As we move into the classical era the quality of the material is a bit more uneven in my opinion, although it's still worthwhile. I like the Sacchini/Piccinni disc (15), but cd 17 with the symphonies is my least favorite so far - sounds like the music of a 10 year old Mozart on a bad day.


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## xJuanx

I'VE BEEN READING THE ENTIRE THREAT LIKE FOR AN HOUR! I LOVE FRENCH BAROQUE ALSO. I LOVE DELALNDE'S TE DEUM BY LES ARTS FLORISSANTS, AND I AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT EVERY WILLIAM CHRISTIE ALBUM IS A GUARANTEE OF QUALITY AND PLEASURE. I SAW THEM LIVE PLAYING CHARPENTIER'S TE DEUM, AND Messe pour les trespasses AND IT WAS AMAZING! WILL NEVER FORGET!
ADDING A BIT MORE ABOUT COUPERIN, THERE'S A VERY NICE VERSION OF LES LEÇONS DES TÈNEBRES BY VERONIQUE GENS,SANDRINE PIAU, WITH LES TALENS LYRIQUES. AND YOU SHOULD HEAR HARPSICHORD MUSIC OF HIM, THERE'S TONS OF STUFF, AND CHRISTOPHE ROUSSET HAS RECORDED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.
FINISHING, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LISTENED OF ANDRE CAMPRA, BUT HIS A COMPOSER WHO COMPOSED ON THE SAME PERIOD DELALANDE DID, AND THIS ALBUM IS JUST EXQUISITE!








HOPE YOU CAN LISTEN IT!


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> Only three to go (18,19 & 20). As we move into the classical era the quality of the material is a bit more uneven in my opinion, although it's still worthwhile. I like the Sacchini/Piccinni disc (15), but cd 17 with the symphonies is my least favorite so far - sounds like the music of a 10 year old Mozart on a bad day.


Me too. In the last few discs I feel as if the light's gone out. Or, to mix my analogies, listening to them I soon feel like a fish swimming through muddy water, longing to leap again among the glittering rapids. Or, they make me feel like someone who has been drinking a fine old ale, but has been given a glass of Coca Cola. Or, ....zzzzzz....


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> I LOVE DELALNDE'S TE DEUM BY LES ARTS FLORISSANTS, AND I AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT EVERY WILLIAM CHRISTIE ALBUM IS A GUARANTEE OF QUALITY AND PLEASURE. I SAW THEM LIVE PLAYING CHARPENTIER'S TE DEUM, AND Messe pour les trespasses AND IT WAS AMAZING! WILL NEVER FORGET!


Yes, certainly. I've yet to hear a Christie recording that isn't superb. Congratulations on having seen them live; I'm not in the least surprised to hear that it was unforgettable.



> ADDING A BIT MORE ABOUT COUPERIN, THERE'S A VERY NICE VERSION OF LES LEÇONS DES TÈNEBRES BY VERONIQUE GENS,SANDRINE PIAU, WITH LES TALENS LYRIQUES.


Thanks for the tip - I shall seek out this recording.



> AND YOU SHOULD HEAR HARPSICHORD MUSIC OF HIM, THERE'S TONS OF STUFF, AND CHRISTOPHE ROUSSET HAS RECORDED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.


I've wondered about that, but I find solo harpsicord very difficult to listen to; so I shall try it at some stage, but I'm not in a hurry to do so.



> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LISTENED OF ANDRE CAMPRA, BUT HIS A COMPOSER WHO COMPOSED ON THE SAME PERIOD DELALANDE DID, AND THIS ALBUM IS JUST EXQUISITE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOPE YOU CAN LISTEN IT!


Thanks too for this tip. I'll put it on my list also.

Could I make a suggestion? Reading everything in upper case is quite unsettling (it's rather like being shouted at), and your post was so interesting and helpful that it seems a shame for it to be spoiled by that - may I ask you to use ordinary lower case writing? It would be much easier on the eyes. I hope you'll contribute more posts to this thread.


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## xJuanx

I'm sorry for the caps, and glad you found my post helpful. I've looked the entire box-set works and it looks sooo appealing. Have you listend cd12? I find Rameau's motet "In convertendo" breath-taking, especially the beggining of it.


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## jhar26

I like the pianoforte disc (No.18) much better than the symphony disc (No.17). Not only the Mozart pieces, I like that sonata from Hyacinthe Jadin (totally unknown to me) also.


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> I've looked the entire box-set works and it looks sooo appealing. Have you listend cd12? I find Rameau's motet "In convertendo" breath-taking, especially the beggining of it.


I've talked about CD12 back in post #16 in this thread, but I was powerfully struck then by the Mondonville which overwhelmed everything else, and I think the Rameau will need revisiting. I'll do that, and report back.

As for the whole box itself - seems to me it was _made_ for a chap like you!


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## xJuanx

Yes, so I thought while I read all the works on it. So I guess I'll wait for your report on _In Convertendo_.


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> I guess I'll wait for your report on _In Convertendo_.


I just listened to _In Convertando_ (on CD12) again while eating my lunch. There's no way I'm going to disagree with your assessment of it. I have no technical knowledge of these things, and my opinion on all these matters is uninformed and subjective, but I must agree with you that the _In Convertando_ is wonderful. I'm particularly attracted by the way it concludes - first, the upbeat 'Que seminant in lachrymis' with its catchy rock-and-roll rhythmic introduction, followed then by the closing piece - 'Euntes ibant et flebant' - which takes us up in the clouds and leaves us there. Sophie Daneman is simply perfect in this, it seems to me.

The only thing I would add is that afterwards I listened to the first part of that disc - Mondonville's _Dominus Regnavit_, and even though I thought the Rameau was superb, the Mondonville took everything up yet another gear, for me. I don't think I have anything to add to what I said in #16, except merely to confirm what I said then. Do you know this piece, xJuanx? If you don't, then my goodness you have a treat in store. It seems to touch on almost every conceivable emotion during its brief 20-minute passage. The flood music ('Elevaverunt flumina') is so exciting; it feels as if an unstoppable great wind is in control of everything. And again Sophie Daneman excels herself - a voice from Heaven, surely, when she sings 'Testimonia tua'.

What a fine disc this is, and how perfectly these two pieces complement each other.


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## xJuanx

I'm glad we agree on Rameau and the fact Sophie Daneman is an awfully great singer (perfect on this repertoire). I have to admit I've never listened to Mondonville, mainly because I've never seen a record of him in any Cd's store. I wanted to get _Les fetês de Paphos_ conducted by Rousset










Anyways you speak so good of him I'll have to download something, and then let you know what I think. But I'm sure it sounds really nice (especially if Christie is involved).


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> I have to admit I've never listened to Mondonville, mainly because I've never seen a record of him in any Cd's store.


Exactly. The obscurity of Mondonville is one of the things both jhar26 and myself find hard to explain.


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## xJuanx

I've been reading a bit, and I think he was probably shadowed by Rameau at the time and remained like that for ever.


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> I've been reading a bit, and I think he was probably shadowed by Rameau at the time and remained like that for ever.


Looks like it. Thank goodness for William Christie, restoring such people back into public knowledge.


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## xJuanx

Yes! Thanks God for him! And there are more albums from rare french composers from him. For example I bought one (which I loved), from a composer called Guillaume Bouzignac. It's an entire motets album, with a type of motets like in dialogue (two choirs), which was really new at the time.


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> Yes! Thanks God for him! And there are more albums from rare french composers from him. For example I bought one (which I loved), from a composer called Guillaume Bouzignac. It's an entire motets album, with a type of motets like in dialogue (two choirs), which was really new at the time.


That Musique D'Abord label is amazing - elegant packages, reissues of exquisite recordings, and all so cheap! I've placed an order for one of these Bouzignac discs - the fact that it's Christie is recommendation enough, and your comments have stirred me into action. Thanks! I'll let you know how I get on with it.


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## Elgarian

For those wanting to hear more Lully, a live recording of _Alceste_ can be obtained for free at Opera Today, here. This is from a broadcast performance in Paris, 2006, with Veronique Gens as Alceste. Sound quality seems good, and indeed I'm listening to it as I write this, enjoying myself very much!


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## Elgarian

Well, well, well.










I found a recommendation for this on another forum, and it was such an obvious bargain that I ordered one straight away. 5 CDs for not much over £10 from Amazon Marketplace sellers. Even though I already had the Couperin recording, it was still a bargain.

There's a booklet, with brief notes about each disc, but no words/translation. Not surprising at this price. I reached for one of the discs I knew nothing about - Nicolas Clerambault. Who? I read the blurb. These pieces are performed by an all-female choir - Les Demoiselles de Saint-Cyr, with organ accompaniment, sometimes enhanced by bass viol. I must say, this didn't sound promising, to me. If I could have told my younger self that one day I'd be paying good money to listen to this sort of stuff - baroque music sung by a female choir with mostly solo organ accompaniment - my younger self would have laughed me out of the door. Ah Elvis, just look at me now.

It turns out that these ladies can sing very expressively, and this composer can write exquisite music (so another Baroque unknown rises to the surface). There are harmonies among the voices that send shivers up my spine all the way through. I'd intended to read the newspaper while this played in the background, but it proved impossible; it had to be listened to. Apparently Clerambault wrote these pieces for the ladies to sing at a girls' school, and so 'you must not expect to find too much complexity'. Well maybe so - but you _can_ expect to get a 68 minute slice of Heaven instead. Fabulous.

So this box is a success already. You can get one (together with more details) here, if you want one.


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## xJuanx

Wow that set looks pretty good! Regarding Clerambault, I own an album with cantatas sang by Sandrine Piau with Le Concert Spirituel, that you might find interesting.


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## Elgarian

xJuanx said:


> Regarding Clerambault, I own an album with cantatas sang by Sandrine Piau with Le Concert Spirituel, that you might find interesting.


Yes I most certainly do find that interesting! Thank you - I've just ordered a copy (secondhand, as it seems to be out of print). While browsing, I came across this:










So I ordered a secondhand copy of this, too. Exciting stuff. Thanks for the tip.


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## Elgarian

It's been a long time since I added anything to this thread, but that's not to say that nothing has been happening. I think it's true to say that this Versailles box set has been the single most influential, most seminal, set I've ever bought. I've already mentioned earlier in this thread some of the directions it's led me into - Couperin, for instance, Mondonville, Charpentier, and Delalande. It also exposed me, on the performing side, to William Christie, Sophie Daneman, Patricia Petibon, and Les Arts Florissants, and each of those has led me on interesting journeys.

The biggest breakthrough recently, though, has been Lully, and in the last few weeks I've been soaking myself in Lully operas. I already knew _Cadmus and Hermione_ from the wonderful DVD of the historically authentic Paris production, and which I've written about extensively in the 'Opera on DVD' thread (see here, post 55 and following). But in addition to that, these two sets are also particularly recommendable:

















Both are outstanding in terms of recording quality and performance. The _Psyche_ is currently a contender for a 2009 _Gramophone_ Award, but if I had to choose just one I'd pick the _Proserpine_ - mainly because I have a fascination for that particular myth, but also because of the interesting changes Lully (or is it Quinault, or both?) makes to the story.

None of this would be happening if I hadn't bought _200 Years of Music at Versailles_, and I see no end in sight to the avenues that are opening up. It's worth putting on your list even if you have only the faintest glimmer of interest in French baroque.


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## Llyranor

Massive bump, but I was browsing the forums for Baroque recommendations and ended up in this thread. I was really impressed by some youtube samples from a few of these composers whose names I'd never heard about before, particularly Mondonville. Ordered the set, thanks!


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