# What browser do you use?



## Polednice

I've noticed recently that, despite my love for Goooooooooogil, Chrome just isn't working as it should. It randomly doesn't display various elements on webpages, such as pictures on this forum, as well as elsewhere. I turned the adblocker off, but to no avail. I've had a look at some other browsers, but it seems like a pain to change because I like using a number of the Chrome-exclusive extensions and add-ons.

Anyway, tell me what you use and why.

Note: Internet Explorer is deliberately not in the poll, and I kindly ask all IE users to never speak to me again.


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## Aramis

But John, this is not interesting!


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## Polednice

Aramis said:


> But John, this is not interesting!


Hahahaha, I know, but I'm extremely selfish and want to subject everyone to the tedium of this question for my own benefit.


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## Aksel

Opera!

(This is filler. Please disregard this)


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## sospiro

Polednice said:


> I've noticed recently that, despite my love for Goooooooooogil, Chrome just isn't working as it should. It randomly doesn't display various elements on webpages, such as pictures on this forum, as well as elsewhere. I turned the adblocker off, but to no avail. I've had a look at some other browsers, but it seems like a pain to change because I like using a number of the Chrome-exclusive extensions and add-ons.
> 
> Anyway, tell me what you use and why.
> 
> Note: Internet Explorer is deliberately not in the poll, and I kindly ask all IE users to never speak to me again.


:lol:

I wish this story had been true

I use Firefox which I'm very happy with but have never tried the others so can't comment on the others

I have to have the *shhh - you know what* browser for my office login (Outlook Web Access) so can't ditch it completely


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## Polednice

sospiro said:


> :lol:
> 
> I wish this story had been true
> 
> I use Firefox which I'm very happy with but have never tried the others so can't comment on the others
> 
> I have to have the *shhh - you know what* browser for my office login (Outlook Web Access) so can't ditch it completely


You're forgiven for that. 

I think that a proper study about IE users is worth funding...


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## Argus

Polednice said:


> Note: Internet Explorer is deliberately not in the poll, and I kindly ask all IE users to never speak to me again.


I has been browser snobbed.

I've never even bothered looking into other browsers. All I know is when I press the big blue e, the internet appears.


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## Chris

I finally abandoned IE (for Firefox) when I couldn't get Flash working on IE. Not sure the changeover has helped my intelligence though.


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## Polednice

Argus said:


> I has been browser snobbed.
> 
> I've never even bothered looking into other browsers. All I know is when I press the big blue e, the internet appears.


Awwwww, how cute!


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## jurianbai

I am using the banned XX browser in other computer and a proud Mozzzzilla on laptop. A Dolphin on Android tablet.


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## An Die Freude

Polednice said:


> Note: Internet Explorer is deliberately not in the poll, and I kindly ask all IE users to never speak to me again.


Oi! What's wrong with IE?


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## Aksel

Argus said:


> I has been browser snobbed.
> 
> I've never even bothered looking into other browsers. All I know is when I press the big blue e, the internet appears.


The big, red O is rather nice as well.


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## Aksel

An Die Freude said:


> Oi! What's wrong with IE?


Everything.


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## World Violist

I'm using Chrome. Used to use Firefox but it messed up somehow, so I downloaded Chrome as an add-on with Weather Channel's crappy desktop thing. I find it works very well for me.


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## kg4fxg

At work I use Safari and I also use my iPad. My own computer is a Mac so the world of Microsoft is but a distant memory to me.


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## Polednice

Have any Chrome users noticed any missing images? Say, for example, on the forum, someone states they're including an image with a post and it's just not there? (Take a look at the 'post a picture of yourself' thread if you're not sure  )


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## An Die Freude

Aksel said:


> Everything.


Works ok for me...


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## Kopachris

I use Firefox whenever I can (which is 99% of the time). I tried Opera once, but didn't really like the overall design. I've used Chrome Portable on my flash drive on public computers that didn't have Firefox, and it worked quite well. Even on my Mac, I tended to use Firefox instead of Safari, though I don't really have any problems with Safari.


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## Yoshi

Polednice said:


> Have any Chrome users noticed any missing images? Say, for example, on the forum, someone states they're including an image with a post and it's just not there? (Take a look at the 'post a picture of yourself' thread if you're not sure  )


No I haven't.


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## regressivetransphobe

IE is horrible but "browser allegiance" has to be the most pointless thing on earth. I'd use it just to spite firefox fans if it wasn't ultimately self-defeating.


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## TresPicos

Firefox. If I try other browsers, I miss my add-ons. If I try IE, I also get depressed.


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## haydnfan

Firefox. When I started browsing the web, my first computer was a Mac and I found the fastest browser at the time was Netscape Navigator. So I never thought of IE as the default, and in fact back then netscape was much faster than IE. Today the modern browsers (including IE) are all about as fast and secure and compatible with nearly all websites so it settles down to features, most of which are the same anyway. So I think that browser wars are stupid.

That being said I like firefox for the adblock+ plugin.


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## elgar's ghost

I use Google Chrome but the second page in doesn't seem to show the anti-virus symbols next to the sites as often as before. Not being a technophile I wouldn't know if this is the fault of my internet provider, the antivirus or Google Chrome itself.


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## World Violist

Polednice said:


> Have any Chrome users noticed any missing images? Say, for example, on the forum, someone states they're including an image with a post and it's just not there? (Take a look at the 'post a picture of yourself' thread if you're not sure  )


Noooooope.


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## Ukko

I use SeaMonkey. It's another Mozilla beastie, though it doesn't seem to be closely related to Firefox. The email/newsgroup sub-app is simply a window under the browser; handy.


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## graaf

Firefox. Has add-ons, everybody tries to be compatible with it (not the case with Opera, unfortunately).
Used Opera for 2 or 3 years, but switched back to Firefox when certain issues appeared (and persisted). Very advanced browser, have it installed, but rarely use it.
Tried Chrome, lacks in many features I like, due to oversimplification, also known as "dumbing down". (Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein).
Tried Safari, not impressed.
Tried IE, and now I wish I didn't.


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## World Violist

Hilltroll72 said:


> I use SeaMonkey. It's another Mozilla beastie, though it doesn't seem to be closely related to Firefox. The email/newsgroup sub-app is simply a window under the browser; handy.


How many weird animals does Mozilla employ? Firefox, Thunderbird, Seamonkey...is there an Earthysloth or something in the works?


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## graaf

World Violist said:


> How many weird animals does Mozilla employ? Firefox, Thunderbird, Seamonkey...is there an Earthysloth or something in the works?


Damn, now you leaked it and it won't be surprise when it "hits the net"!


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## Polednice

graaf said:


> Firefox. Has add-ons, everybody tries to be compatible with it (not the case with Opera, unfortunately).
> Used Opera for 2 or 3 years, but switched back to Firefox when certain issues appeared (and persisted). Very advanced browser, have it installed, but rarely use it.
> Tried Chrome, lacks in many features I like, due to oversimplification, also known as "dumbing down". (Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein).
> Tried Safari, not impressed.
> Tried IE, and now I wish I didn't.


Yeah, with regards to features and compatibility - my main requirements for a browser given the things I use it for - I'm really stuck between Chrome and Firefox, though the general feel of Opera is sleeker. Well, I guess I'll just have to try using Firefox for a while and see if I can get used to it.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I usually use Chrome but I still employ Foxfire from time to time. After the recent Foxfore upgrades I began to get problems with speed and checking the task manager found it was eating up to 3 and 4 Gigabits in memory. It also had the problem in that it would frequently freeze on a given page and I was unable to simply close that tab... rather I had to completely shut the entire internet connection. I've had no problem with Chrome and pictures.


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## graaf

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I usually use Chrome but I still employ Foxfire from time to time. After the recent Foxfore upgrades I began to get problems with speed and checking the task manager found it was eating up to 3 and 4 Gigabits in memory. It also had the problem in that it would frequently freeze on a given page and I was unable to simply close that tab... rather I had to completely shut the entire internet connection. I've had no problem with Chrome and pictures.


Mozilla unfortunately adopted new developing strategy, greatly influenced by Google Chrome, which means new version every 3 months (looking forward to version 26), but that also means lack of testing. Firefox was so stable and reliable, because ton of people used to test it and report bugs and such issues to Mozilla. After several months of reliability, they would launch new version. Now they don't have "several months" to test, because they launch new version every 3 monts.

I already knew that "innocence never lasts forever", but I hope that there is a way for them to come back to their senses. And I do not think that Google forced them into the new development method, although they remain biggest sponsor of Mozilla, I just think it is the power of trends (don't want to say fads).

PS
I don't use latest version of FF, I use 4.0.1


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## clavichorder

Polednice said:


> Hahahaha, I know, but I'm extremely selfish and want to subject everyone to the tedium of this question for my own benefit.


That's what we all do, you just don't even bother with a disguise!

I'm a mac user and I haven't done anything with mine, so its Safari.


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## Couchie




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## sospiro

Couchie said:


>


I knew you wouldn't disappoint me


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## beethovenian

Opera's Mouse gesture won me over. 

I hate it when my friends associate my listening to classical music with using the web browser called "Opera", these two things have nothing in common!


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## Krummhorn

I've been a Firefox user going on 5 years now ... absolutely zero problems ever with it, unlike the 'unmentionable' one .


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## graaf

Couchie said:


>


This oversized safari logo reminded me of the following:

*Apple triggers 'religious' reaction in fans' brains, report says*
May 19, 2011|By Mark Milian, CNN

Next time Grandma asks why you're going to the mall on Sunday morning instead of church, tell her you're going to Apple Chapel.
For Apple fans, the brand triggers a reaction in the brain that's not unlike that of religious devotees, according to a BBC documentary series that cites neurological research. The neuroscientists ran a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) test on an Apple fanatic and discovered that images of the technology company's gadgets lit up the same parts of the brain as images of a deity do for religious people, the report says.

source: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-19/...apple-store-apple-employees-brains?_s=PM:TECH


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## Fsharpmajor

Polednice said:


> I've noticed recently that, despite my love for Goooooooooogil, Chrome just isn't working as it should. It randomly doesn't display various elements on webpages, such as pictures on this forum, as well as elsewhere. I turned the adblocker off, but to no avail. I've had a look at some other browsers, but it seems like a pain to change because I like using a number of the Chrome-exclusive extensions and add-ons.


I use Chrome. I hate Firefox and have never even heard of IE.

Two things you might try:

--reinstall Chrome and see if that solves the problem.

--disable the plug-ins one at a time to see if one of them is causing the problem.

(You might also try rebooting your computer, if you haven/t tried that already).


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## Yoshi

I use Chrome but I used to have IE or Firefox before. Am I the only person in the world who didn't have problems with IE? I don't see a big deal about internet browsers anyway. They all worked fine to me.


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## Ravellian

FireFox for me. Great add-ons (ADBLOCK!), better search functions, much fewer annoying popups. That other one has given me too much crap over the years.


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## Delicious Manager

Argus said:


> I has been browser snobbed.
> 
> I've never even bothered looking into other browsers. All I know is when I press the big blue e, the internet appears.


IE is the WORST of all browsers - ask anyone who's looked into it. Or look at the browsers' various performances (plenty of comparison websites). It is essential for EVERY computer to have at least TWO browsers installed. Why? Imagine this scenario: Your IE crashes terminally. You have no other browser installed through which to access the internet to download and re-install it. What do you do? You're screwed!

Only one internet browser installed = disaster waiting to happen.


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## Delicious Manager

regressivetransphobe said:


> IE is horrible but "browser allegiance" has to be the most pointless thing on earth. I'd use it just to spite firefox fans if it wasn't ultimately self-defeating.


I think this is a little dismissive. All browsers have their up- and down-sides and their advantages, disadvantages and quirks. We probably all use browsers slightly differently and need different types of performance from them. having tried almost every browser available for Mac (I don't get on with Safari), I mostly use Firefox for work as it makes the use of multiple tabs easy. Opera is also quite good at this, but has some display issues with some websites. Google Chrome has many goods points, but isn't so well suited for my work. I also like some of the features of OmniWeb (the side-tab/window feature is good), but isn't best for my everyday use. So, it's horses for courses, I think.


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## Argus

Delicious Manager said:


> Only one internet browser installed = disaster waiting to happen.


That should be in that first world problems thread. Not being able to use the internet = disaster.:lol:

I've never had a serious problem with IE.


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## Fsharpmajor

It's possible to paint yourself into a corner like Delicious Manager said. I recently re-installed Chrome to solve a minor problem I was having with it, and to do that I used Firefox. This relates to Polednice's original problem. I think he needs to re-install Chrome.


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## Polednice

Fsharpmajor said:


> I use Chrome. I hate Firefox and have never even heard of IE.
> 
> Two things you might try:
> 
> --reinstall Chrome and see if that solves the problem.
> 
> --disable the plug-ins one at a time to see if one of them is causing the problem.
> 
> (You might also try rebooting your computer, if you haven/t tried that already).


Yaaaaaaaaay!

I did the extension testing and found that, for some bizarre reason, my 'facebook disconnect' extension was the culprit randomly blocking webpage elements such as images. Now that it's fixed, I'm in love with Chrome again!


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## Fsharpmajor

My reasoning was that, since nobody else was having the problem, it had to be either file corruption, or (as it turned out to be) a compatibility problem.

I hope this doesn't make people think I'm a computer expert.


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## Curiosity

The ONLY internet browser as far as I'm concerned. We all know which browser is best.


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## Ludders

I'm not much of techie with computers.
I use IE8 because that's the one that was on my PC when i bought it.
People tell me all these others are better, but i've never had any particular problems with IE, so.... if it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## TxllxT

Three browsers open at the same time: IE9 64bits for simple things, Nightly (FF 64 bits) for a specific forum and Chrome for looking at Google Maps and other Google stuff. Firefox has strange problems with its cache running full (must restart it to empty the cache), Chrome is very basic and doesn't remember my search history. IE9 64 bits is not so advanced on flash & video, but overall I'm not complaining.


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## graaf

TxllxT said:


> Three browsers open at the same time: IE9 64bits for simple things, Nightly (FF 64 bits) for a specific forum and Chrome for looking at Google Maps and other Google stuff. Firefox has strange problems with its cache running full (must restart it to empty the cache), Chrome is very basic and doesn't remember my search history. IE9 64 bits is not so advanced on flash & video, but overall I'm not complaining.


I limited Firefox cache to 256MB, and have no problems with it:


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## TxllxT

graaf said:


> I limited Firefox cache to 256MB, and have no problems with it:


Thanks, I will try these settings.


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## Il_Penseroso

Jan said:


> I use Chrome but I used to have IE or Firefox before. Am I the only person in the world who didn't have problems with IE? I don't see a big deal about internet browsers anyway. They all worked fine to me.


No, IE works always well for me too ...


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## Bix

kg4fxg said:


> At work I use Safari and I also use my iPad. My own computer is a Mac so the world of Microsoft is but a distant memory to me.


me too thats why I use safari - I came with the iMac and its fine

distant memories.... shudder


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## Ralfy

SRWare Iron, based on the Chromium browser, but with privacy problems stripped.


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## Delicious Manager

Ralfy said:


> SRWare Iron, based on the Chromium browser, but with privacy problems stripped.


Looks interesting. A shame it's Windows only


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## Ralfy

I found out that Iron has versions for Mac and Linux:

http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_download.php

The same goes for other variants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)

Including 64-bit builds, but I have to search for the Chromium builds online.


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## LordBlackudder

Firefox = A ton of crap you don't use unless you're a nerd.

Internet Explorer = Useless.

Chrome = Lightweight and fast, excellent for beginners. Clean a simple design.


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## Delicious Manager

LordBlackudder said:


> Firefox = A ton of crap you don't use unless you're a nerd.
> 
> Internet Explorer = Useless.
> 
> Chrome = Lightweight and fast, excellent for beginners. Clean a simple design.


I'd be interested to know your opinion of Opera. It has some useful features (I love the 'hold right mouse button and click left button' to go back a page (and vice versa), but I find it can have some issues displaying and decoding some websites properly.

Have you tried 'Iron'? It's an enhanced sort of Chrome.


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## Delicious Manager

Ralfy said:


> I found out that Iron has versions for Mac and Linux:
> 
> http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_download.php
> 
> The same goes for other variants:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)
> 
> Including 64-bit builds, but I have to search for the Chromium builds online.


Thank for this! I have downloaded the Mac version (which seems to run fine) and am trying it out. Any features you recommend I check-out?


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## Lenfer

I use Firefox (Chrome as a backup) when I'm using my PC and Safari (Firefox as a backup) when I'm using my iMac.


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## kv466

You know, Poli, when I first saw this thread it made me feel good about some of my terrible threads...interestingly enough, it's popular!...I'll never get it, I think...I'm happy to say that I use the one with the blue 'e' and while I read so many bad things about it, I navigate through the net as I wish and have never had a problem...really, though, I don't care which one I use as long as it gets me where I wanna go...I guess if you use the pc a lot more then it matters quite a bit...maybe I should start a thread for guitar players: What strings do you use? Now that I consider to be of much importance and there is a tremendous difference between each...you're still my boy, Mr. Nice


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## Polednice

kv466 said:


> You know, Poli, when I first saw this thread it made me feel good about some of my terrible threads...


What the hell is that supposed to mean?!


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## Jeremy Marchant

You asked why I use Firefox.
Solely because it was the first browser I found which comes with an ad blocking utility.


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## Ravellian

Isn't firefox's adblocking utility (which blocks all youtube ads) enough for anyone to switch over??


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## Polednice

Ravellian said:


> Isn't firefox's adblocking utility (which blocks all youtube ads) enough for anyone to switch over??


Well, seeing as they ported it with all its functionality intact to Google's Chrome, I'd hazard a guess at... no.


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## Ralfy

Delicious Manager said:


> Thank for this! I have downloaded the Mac version (which seems to run fine) and am trying it out. Any features you recommend I check-out?


Because it is lightweight, it does not contain a lot of features. They have to be added via extensions, and one has to make sure that the extensions are verified or that the extension has high ratings. I had to add several like an ad blocker and mouse gestures.

From what I gathered, the main reason why a browser might be lightweight is because it does not contain a lot of features. Once more features are added the browser may use as browsers with lots of built-in features.

Also, I think in order to run quickly and to maintain stability, Chromium-based browsers have to use more memory. This is not a problem if one uses newer machines with more memory but it might for those using netbooks or older machines.

A third problem is that in order to maintain privacy, the browser does not contain an auto-update feature. That means the user has to periodically visit the website to see if a new version of the browser is available, and this is usually important if the update involves many security fixes.


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## robert

After many years of Windows & Firefox.. I switched to a MAC /Safari, which I love.


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## Polednice

robert said:


> after many years of windows & firefox.. I switched to a mac /safari, which i love.


traitorrr!


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## DavidJones

Chrome,best for me !


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## Ralfy

To Delicious, I switched to Chromium, which has newer versions available. I've to go the build site at

http://build.chromium.org/f/chromium/snapshots/

to download the latest versions, but some have made programs or extensions to make updating easier.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Chrome at home and IE at work


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## Art Rock

Chrome is my standard browser. I use Edge for gallery stuff (email, facebook, twitter) because I can save the passwords easily that way. For the same reason, I've used Firefox for the combination of shops in this street (about 40) to run the shopping street's social media - but after 4 years I got fed up with it and no-one wanted to take over.


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## Taggart

Chrome is my default for most things. Saves passwords just great for me. I use Firefox for TC because it works so mush better on the site. It also saves passwords just great.

I use IE and Edge whenever people come up with problems that look browser related otherwise they just languish away.


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## Guest

Primarily Firefox, but Chrome to cast video to my tele.

Firefox is getting a bad reputation these days, so it may be worth looking at other options.


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## Dr Johnson

I use Pale Moon, a Firefox offshoot:

https://www.palemoon.org/

For Netflix I use Chrome because it seems to work best with it.

At the moment I am using Firefox because, due to my cataract op, the small, budget Lenovo Windows 10 laptop is easier to use (almost like a tablet).

As soon as my eyes are fully sorted it will be back to Linux Mint and Pale Moon.


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## Guest

Pale Moon looks interesting, I'll check it out.


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## TxllxT

Chrome because of the embedded translation popup.


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## Forsooth

I use Vivaldi and quite like it. For a search engine, I use DuckDuckGoGo, which is very good and doesn't track you.


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## Klassik

Forsooth said:


> I use Vivaldi and quite like it. For a search engine, I use DuckDuckGoGo, which is very good and doesn't track you.


Vivaldi was developed by disgruntled Opera employees. Who wouldn't be disgruntled by Opera?  But, yeah, it's hard to go wrong with Vivaldi (unless it's a Vivaldi Opera perhaps). Only pseudo-intellectuals dislike Vivaldi.


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## SixFootScowl

Forsooth said:


> I use Vivaldi and quite like it. For a search engine, I use DuckDuckGoGo, which is very good and doesn't track you.


There also is StartPage which claims to be the world's most private browser.


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## TurnaboutVox

Firefox. I've experimented with Chrome, Opera, Chromium but Firefox generally works best on both my Windows 10 desktop and my Ubuntu-running laptops and older desktop.

Plus I surf the web without ever seeing an advert...


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## Merl

I like the functionality of Firefox, and have used it for years, but it's getting glitchy these days.


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## Klassik

Ukko said:


> I use SeaMonkey. It's another Mozilla beastie, though it doesn't seem to be closely related to Firefox. The email/newsgroup sub-app is simply a window under the browser; handy.


I like SeaMonkey as well. It uses the same Gecko rendering engine as Firefox, but it still has the GUI from Netscape Communicator 4. Remember Netscape? :lol: But, yeah, I prefer the older GUIs before before all the major browsers joined in the minimalist race.  I'd use Lynx if I wanted the Steve Reich of browsers.


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## Dr Johnson

Fritz Kobus said:


> There also is StartPage which claims to be the world's most private browser.


To be pedantic, it claims to be the world's most private search engine. 

I use it too.


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## Capeditiea

:3 i use Falkon (which is a fork of a fork of Firefox.) about 2 months ago it was called... Qupzilla. but they changed the name and during that time deleted all my book marks *whimpers. but it is okay now, i have lost a few important bookmarks. 

on my phone i use Lightning. :3


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## hpowders

What the heck is a browser?


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> What the heck is a browser?


The program you launch to watch your porn....and load TC.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> The program you launch to watch your porn....and load TC.


Oh. I have six of those.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> Oh. I have six of those.


Multiple monitors? One eye on the thread, "Mozart: God or Garbage?" and another on, well, you know.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Multiple monitors? One eye on the thread, "Mozart: God or Garbage?" and another on, well, you know.


Yes!! I live for....uhhh....Mozart.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

hpowders said:


> Yes!! I live for....uhhh....Mozart.


Mozart Porn, disturbing................


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## Klassik

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Mozart Porn, disturbing................


I'm thinking Mozart wouldn't have found it to be all that disturbing. Of course, it would probably be scheiße porn.


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## Capeditiea

...well, i guess to each their own...


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## Dr Johnson

Now I've got Pale Moon working on this Windoze 10 laptop.

Has anyone else seen this:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/01/sponsored_links_come_to_firefox/


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## Taggart

Dr Johnson said:


> Now I've got Pale Moon working on this Windoze 10 laptop.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this:
> 
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/01/sponsored_links_come_to_firefox/


Going to be interesting how it gets on with ad blockers. I use a custom hosts file which blocks most of the tracker sites. It even block Bing. Typical of Microsoft to name a search engine after after "a heap, especially of metallic ore or of waste from a mine". Decribes their results to a T.


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## Guest

Dr Johnson said:


> Now I've got Pale Moon working on this Windoze 10 laptop.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this:
> 
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/01/sponsored_links_come_to_firefox/


Oh, that doesn't look good. Might be time to think about replacing Firefox.

Last night I had a play with Dillo. It is amazingly simple and fast, so much quicker than Firefox. It has no javascript and doesn't render pages properly, so it is good for sites where you just want to surf and read. Mine wasn't configured properly, so it didn't work very well, though it should be possible to get it going with a bit of tweakage.


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## Klassik

From the linked article...



> "We've come to accept a premise around advertising today that users need to trade their privacy and data in exchange for personalized, high quality experiences," wrote Pocket co-founder Nate Weiner. "Our experiments over the last few months have proved that this isn't true."


Say it isn't so, Weiner!


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## hpowders

OP: Who knows? I simply point and shoot.


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