# Modern Dramatic Sopranos vs Old Lyric Sopranos



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Inspired by a previous video "modern mezzos vs old sopranos". The overall message is the same: modern singers in roles that are supposed to be for bigger voices still sound weaker and less full than higher, lighter voiced singers from earlier periods due to flaws in modern vocal technique.

Note: this isn't exactly the most "nice" topic, but at the same time, I'm trying to stick with modern singers who are considered anywhere from above average to world-class (these kinds of topics are easy to cherry pick. The point is supposed to be that the point is obvious even when making a relatively fair, good-faith comparison).


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Christine Goerke 





Anja Silja


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

You make a valid point, but are you aware that Silja ruined her lyric voice forcing it to sing roles like this? In this excerpt you can hear her in the process of doing it.

Goerke, of course, had already ruined hers at his point.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Marina Poplavskaya





Mary Costa


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

^^^ I can tell that Costa is excellent despite the awfully muffled sound.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Anna Netrebko






Eleanor Steber


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Netrebko is of course a make-believe dramatic soprano. In her photo above she looks the way her voice sounds.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Anna Netrebko
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really don't understand how anyone could listen to Netrebko here. It's not just wobbly, swallowed, small and ugly, it's out of tune, poor legato and no sense of appropriate emotional response either... I find it funny that people take so many years studying to sound like this. Open your throat and sing for God's sake, it's not that hard. You'll be a long way off sounding like Rosa Ponselle but I assure you it must be infinetly harder to sound as bad as Mrs Netrebko.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> I really don't understand how anyone could listen to Netrebko here. It's not just wobbly, swallowed, small and ugly, it's out of tune, poor legato and no sense of appropriate emotional response either... I find it funny that people take so many years studying to sound like this. Open your throat and sing for God's sake, it's not that hard. You'll be a long way off sounding like Rosa Ponselle but I assure you it must be infinetly harder to sound as bad as Mrs Netrebko.


It took her decades of hard work to make a lovely natural voice sound that bad. It's a tribute to ambition and persistence, among other things.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

Woodduck said:


> It took her decades of hard work to make a lovely natural voice sound that bad. It's a tribute to ambition and persistence, among other things.


Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


That may have been true a year ago but she hasn't been welcome in the West since the invasion of Ukraine.

Plácido Domingo was drawing crowds even after he transitioned to baritone repertoire. It's a popularity thing, mixed perhaps with nostalgia for when their voices were better. And when everyone stopped working with him after he was accused of sexual misconduct, there were no more crowds or concerts for him. Did his voice become unbearable overnight because he lost his popularity? No, it had already been in decline for years; people will go to performances when they recognize the names of the singers. I think Netrebko wanted to take on roles that were too heavy for her, since they can attract larger crowds, and this decision (ultimately more commercial than artistic) likely contributed to the problems Woodduck is talking about. (Take my thoughts here with a grain of salt though; I was never trained as a singer and I have barely heard anything Netrebko has sung.)


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


Her popularity might also be proof of falling standards, or of opera-goers' abysmal taste. Or it might not be proof of anything.
Popularity is never a reliable factor in assessing quality.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


Popularity and quality do not always go together.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


"Hatred" isn't the right word. Actually I'm indifferent to her. I've enjoyed some of her work in years past, when she was fresh-voiced and hadn't pushed herself into heavier repertoire. Singing lyric roles, especially in Russian opera, she did plenty of things right, and she could be very entertaining in comic roles. Pretty good-looking too.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I actually find enough to value in Netrebko's _performing. _Whilst not being keen on her _singing _nowadays. That isn't just because of her visual acting, but she's very exciting in the theatre where the voice blends with the orchestra and the whole experience takes the edge off her vocal production and uncomfortable vocal errors. Her earlier recordings (especially in Russian rep are quite fine).

N.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


Catering to pompous audiences who care more about doing something supposedly upper-class, and ‘enjoying’ the screechy, wobbling noises of these singers simply because it is ‘higher art’ is not doing anything right in my opinion. I know people who would praise a performance of Netrebko’s or any number of terrible operatic vocalists while disparaging modern popular singers, who, even if you don’t like the music sound better and have a more natural technique. This is the audience she caters for and if she does something right for them it’s certainly not right for me.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

toasino said:


> Despite your hatred of her singing, the fact is that Netrebko is probably the most popular soprano singing today. Therefore, it seems to me, she is doing something right.


Would you say the same about Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber or Cardi B?

I can answer that though: for all her abysmal singing technique, she has stage presence and charisma, which the layman cares far more about than good singing.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Would you say the same about Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber or Cardi B?
> 
> I can answer that though: for all her abysmal singing technique, she has stage presence and charisma, which the layman cares far more about than good singing.


Fwiw, she wasn't actually that bad before she got arrogant and started taking on roles 4x too big for her voice (and for that matter, her technique).

For example, this may not be the best singing in the world, but it's far from the worst. It's a little pushed, a little too far back in the throat, but it still sounds reasonably natural. If I didn't know who this was, I would probably walk away thinking "that was pretty".


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This is the Anna Netrebko I knew and liked. Had this talent been developed in a better direction who knows the singer we may have had today.






N.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

The Conte said:


> I actually find enough to value in Netrebko's _performing. _Whilst not being keen on her _singing _nowadays. That isn't just because of her visual acting, but she's very exciting in the theatre where the voice blends with the orchestra and the whole experience takes the edge off her vocal production and uncomfortable vocal errors. Her earlier recordings (especially in Russian rep are quite fine).
> 
> N.


Anna's Aidas have been getting rave reviews in Madrid these pas two weeks. Her O Patria Mia had the audience roaring for an encore, which did not happen. Anna is 51, an age when Tebaldi and Callas were no longer singing opera. From their early forties on, both Maria and Renata were very erratic, especially their upper register or high notes. No singer, even the greatest ones, are perfect.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

toasino said:


> Anna's Aidas have been getting rave reviews in Madrid these pas two weeks. Her O Patria Mia had the audience roaring for an encore, which did not happen. Anna is 51, an age when Tebaldi and Callas were no longer singing opera. From their early forties on, both Maria and Renata were very erratic, especially their upper register or high notes. No singer, even the greatest ones, are perfect.


If ONLY Netrebko had stopped singing earlier. Obviously Tebaldi and Callas were not perfect singers but both remarkable in their own way. I prefer to trust the objectifiable facts about a singers voice rather than the applause of audiences who also applaud her husband, Kaufmann, Juan Diego Florez etc. And Netrebko's voice is ugly, wobbly, unprojected, uncentred, often off pitch and she rarely sings a clear vowel. Unless Netrebko has miraculously recovered her voice, taken some masterclasses with the reanimated corpses of Tebaldi and Ponselle and gained a few vocal sizes I doubt there's much of interest in her Aida. But then again miracles do happen... supposedly.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

toasino said:


> Anna's Aidas have been getting rave reviews in Madrid these pas two weeks. Her O Patria Mia had the audience roaring for an encore, which did not happen. Anna is 51, an age when Tebaldi and Callas were no longer singing opera. From their early forties on, both Maria and Renata were very erratic, especially their upper register or high notes. No singer, even the greatest ones, are perfect.


If we are comparing end of career Callas and Tebaldi (and I do mean end of career) with Netrebko as she was in that Forza posted in this thread, then I know who I would pick and it ain't Netrebs!

Even in Callas' final tour with Di Stefano she was able to produce a beautiful tone at moments, maybe few, but some notes were sung well from a technical point of view. Netrebko is always a committed performer, but her concentration on the role is far more reliable than her voice.

I saw that performance of Forza live in the house and it was a very satisfying evening, but I have no desire to listen to the recording of it out of the context of the occasion.

N.


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