# Best opera house in Europe ?



## Contessa (Oct 31, 2010)

And I mean the building itself, not the companies working in it. Which are your favourites, which are the best (acoustics, atmosphere, comfort, history, accessibility, decor, etc.) and why? Or the world for those fortunate enough to have experience of them across the continents.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

I have never been there but the new opera house in Valencia designed by Santiago Calatrava is a stunning work of art......iconic like the Sydney opera house



















Next door in same development complex is new museum center also designed by Calatrava.......


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

The one here in Amsterdam is a fantastic building. The actual company has a much smaller budget relative to many others so we dont get too many international stars, but technucally this opera house is far ahead of many others.

Ive taken a backstage tour where they show you all the machinery. There are areas on all sides of the stage, out of sight, at least as large as the stage for the placement and movement of apparatus. Some of the tricks they use have been invented by (world's best) dutch engineers specifically for this purpose.

For the seats, we dont have the fancy screens like in the met, but its comfortable enough.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Wow. That Valencia opera house is stunning!
But I have to say that I adore the Oslo opera house:
















And, from what I hear (I sadly haven't attended any performances there), the acoustics are great.

And also, the Vienna State Opera, which is so beautifully wonderful. Especially on the inside. Aah, memories.
















I have, in fact attended a performance here, and from where I sat (second level boxes on the far right), the acoustics were rather good.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Neoclassical coloss from Warsaw with largest scene of all world's opera houses:










Link for huge picture with all details:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Warszawa_Teatr_Wielki_rzut_prostoliniowy.jpg


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm disappointed with you Europeans and your modern buildings (except for those who quoted Vienna and Warsaw).
I'm much more admirative of beautiful places like La Fenice, La Scala, the Liceu, etc. Those are cathedrals of music, with tradition seeping from the walls.
Sure, a modern and comfortable opera house with all the state of the art acoustics is nice, but these modern buildings, as stunning as their architecture can be, will never in my opinion match the great old cathedrals.


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I have once visited La Fenice in Venice, before the fire, and it must have been one of the most beautiful. As I understand it has been rebuilt to look the same as it was. La Scala in Milan was an experience, too. Perhaps more for its history and reputation. I like the smallish Zürich Opera House, too. Quite many of its productions have ended up on DVDs!

Our own Finnish National Opera in Helsinki is a modern building with all the technical gimmicks, but the opera houses in Copenhagen and Oslo are even newer. The Valencia beats them all with its futuristic architecture.

If I have to choose one, I would pick La Fenice.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> I'm disappointed with you Europeans and your modern buildings


No reason to be disappointed, despite those two examples you disliked there are still much more beautiful and majestic opera houses in the Europe than in all rest of the world - North, South Americas and Australia together :tiphat:


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## Lipatti (Oct 9, 2010)

Another very architecturally beautiful building is Palais Garnier. And then there is Mariinsky which I hopefully will attend in February.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Lipatti said:


> Another very architecturally beautiful building is *Palais Garnier*. And then there is Mariinsky which I hopefully will attend in February.


Paris opera house palais garnier is probably the ultimate extreme ornate baroque design still standing, the level of detail and grand opulance in some areas is mind numbing, like palace of versailles.........


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## Lipatti (Oct 9, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> Paris opera house palais garnier is probably the ultimate extreme ornate baroque design still standing, the level of detail and grand opulance in some areas is mind numbing, like palace of versailles.........


The palace of Versailles is made in rococo style, what else could it be  A style which at the same time gives me both distaste and fascination. The level of detail is astonishing. The Paris opera on the other hand is made in neo-baroque, like the national theatre here in Oslo - which is a lot more beautiful than the new opera (the theatre's acoustics are seriously bad, though).


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

excellent thread.

I myself going to design 2000+ seats church that required concert hall acoustic level. I am looking forward for interior and exterior photos for inspirations!


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

I can scarcely count the number of Opera Houses I have been in (not always hearing operas themselves, but always some musical performance). Of them all, La Scala Milan had the most remarkable accoustic, perhaps rivalled only by Bayreuth. La Fenice's interior (pre-fire) was a wonder from a bygone age, and the majesty of the restored Semperoper (inside & out) in Dresden was a worthy rival to Vienna. From outside, my own Sydney Opera House is a breathtaking building, although the theatres themselves are mediocre.
cheers,
G


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I've only been to the opera in Oslo - the old and the new one, and in the new building both the main stage and stage 2. I think the sound is great, the subtitling system is way better in the new opera house than the old, and the building itself is a masterpiece. As was mentioned on a TV program about the building a couple of weeks ago; it seems a lot of people come for the building and stay for the music. They may not know opera much, but want to experience the building, and one thing leads to another.

ETA: Endelig en nordmann til her inne....


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Hurra for nordmenn!

And I really don't see anything wrong with new opera houses. Granted, they don't have the history that older opera houses have, but history has a tendency to come with age, does it not?

And also, the toilets in the Norwegian National Opera House are amazing. I do recommend checking them out if you ever are there.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Their Youtube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/denederlandseopera?gl=NL&hl=nl


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Only place I've seen a performance is ROH. It's not much to look at outside but inside it's stunning.

 

Have done a couple of back stage tours and was slightly disappointed. On the first one, we were supposed to actually go back stage & see how the machinery works but a lift was out of order so we couldn't get to where we should & instead we went on a tour of the costumes department & looked at endless rows of tutus. On the last one the guide was bossy!

Apart from tour guides though the staff are absolutely fabulous. Helpful, enthusiastic and never condescending.

Haven't eaten there so can't comment on the food but I'm sure it's excellent so Alma need not worry.

I've been inside Opera Garnier & La Scala & they are both gorgeous but haven't seen a performance at either.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I have seen performances at Opéra Garnier, Théâtre du Châtelet, Opéra Bastille, and the Arena di Verona, as well as a small theater in Venice - I don't recall its name. I have visited the interior of La Fenice and La Scala but haven't seen performances there.


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Aksel said:


> And also, the toilets in the Norwegian National Opera House are amazing. I do recommend checking them out if you ever are there.


You mean many people come for the toilets and then find themselves staying for the music. (Sorry, but you asked for it.) :devil:


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Anyone been to the Berlin State Opera _Staatsoper Unter den Linden _? It's got quite a history from Frederick II who commissioned it and inaugurated with Graun's _Cesare e Cleopatra_ (1742) through the centuries including WWII and modern times with all the great conductors (including Karajan as _Generalmusikdirektor_ during Nazi Germany). Fascinating history.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Gualtier Malde said:


> You mean many people come for the toilets and then find themselves staying for the music. (Sorry, but you asked for it.) :devil:


Oh, you ...
I guess I did, but the rest of the house is rather stunning as well.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Anyone been to the Berlin State Opera _Staatsoper Unter den Linden _? It's got quite a history from Frederick II who commissioned it and inaugurated with Graun's _Cesare e Cleopatra_ (1742) through the centuries including WWII and modern times with all the great conductors (including Karajan as _Generalmusikdirektor_ during Nazi Germany). Fascinating history.


Yes, indeedy. Saw a performance of Trovatore there in 1989 in which the lead tenor was booed at the first curtain call and refused to reappear afterwards! In fact, you knew something was going to happen by the frisson of horror which ran around the house when he began to sing! What a great experience the whole thing was. Also saw a Boheme at the Komische Oper and something (can't remember what) at the Deutches Oper in West Berlin. As I recall, my mate & I then travelled on to Copenhagen for a double bill of Bluebeard's Castle and Dido & Aeneas. I think we saw 6 operas in 7 nights in 5 different Opera Houses.

The big gaps in my opera house experience were not seeing anything at the Bastille or Garnier (which doesn't stage opera any more I believe). But I've attended the complete Bayreuth Festival in 1992, a Parsifal in Amsterdam, at Covent Garden in 1989: Solti conducting Electra and Haitink doing Prince Igor. I heard Meistersinger in Munich, Auber's Fra Diavolo in Leipzig (!). I heard Pavarotti sing A Masked Ball on stage at the Met in NY. And I heard orchestral concerts in the Semperoper Dresden, La Fenice Venice, La Scala Milan, the Markgraflisches Opera house in Bayreuth. All I ever got from the Vienna Staatsoper was some ghastly ballet set to Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's music. And here, about 40 different operas at the Sydney Opera house and John Adams' Nixon in China at the 92 Adelaide Festival.
Don't think I've seen an opera live for ten years, for one reason or another (married, kids, time, money...)
I'd recommend keeping your programmes, they're a terrific keepsake.
cheers,
G


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

GraemeG said:


> a Parsifal in Amsterdam


Im interested to hear what someone with much international opera experience such as yourself makes of our opera here in Amsterdam?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

GraemeG said:


> at the Bastille or Garnier (which doesn't stage opera any more I believe).


No, Opéra Garnier continues to stage opera. This season, for example, they're showing Giulio Cesare, The Bartered Bride, Kátia Kabanová, Così fan Tutte, and L'Italiana in Algeri. All the other productions of the season are at Opéra Bastille, but these five are at Garnier.

Nice international exposure!:tiphat:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

The opera I prefer. I went there many many time`s:

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&b...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQsAQwAA

The BOLSHOI (th ebig theatre).

I also went to the Kirov and the "Mali teatr" (small) but the Bolshoi is magic.


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I'm disappointed with you Europeans and your modern buildings (except for those who quoted Vienna and Warsaw).
> I'm much more admirative of beautiful places like La Fenice, La Scala, the Liceu, etc. Those are cathedrals of music, with tradition seeping from the walls.
> Sure, a modern and comfortable opera house with all the state of the art acoustics is nice, but these modern buildings, as stunning as their architecture can be, will never in my opinion match the great old cathedrals.


Well, while US copy European operas, Europe is defining new operas (for US to copy someday, hopefully). By the way, altought I shouldn't have been surprised by your comment, I admit I was.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

graaf said:


> Well, while US copy European operas, Europe is defining new operas (for US to copy someday, hopefully). By the way, altought I shouldn't have been surprised by your comment, I admit I was.


Buddy, this is not a US versus Europe issue.
If you look again, I was praising three *European* opera houses - La Fenice, La Scala, and Liceu.
By the way, I have dual citizenship - I'm American *and* European.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I'm American *and* European.


Me too! Where in europe?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> Me too! Where in europe?


I'm a dual citizen of the United States and Italy. I hold both passports. My family is from the Veneto region in Italy, near Padova.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> My family is from the Veneto region in Italy, near Padova.


Don Veneto... <kisses his hand>


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I'm a dual citizen of the United States and Italy. I hold both passports. My family is from the Veneto region in Italy, near Padova.


Yes im the same but from the Netherlands


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Aksel said:


> And also, the toilets in the Norwegian National Opera House are amazing. I do recommend checking them out if you ever are there.


The toilets in the new Finnish National Opera are well worth visiting, too! Maybe we should start a new thread on this subject! After all, it concern our basic needs... The convience of opera on DVD is that you can press the pause button and go for a pee or to the refrigerator, come back and continue!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well...I was born in Buenos Aires..Have you heard about our famous Teatro Colon?

[http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&b...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA

I don't know hot to put picture here...I'd love to know so...

Martin


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> Don Veneto... <kisses his hand>


I know that what you want is my daughter's hand.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Well...I was born in Buenos Aires..Have you heard about our famous Teatro Colon?
> 
> [http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&b...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA
> 
> ...


Yes I do, and I have visited it.
Above, I was talking about my exposure to European opera houses since that's what the thread was about. But I have also been to 6 opera houses in South America (2 in Rio de Janeiro, 1 in São Paulo, 2 in Belo Horizonte, one in Buenos Aires - the Colon) and 7 others in the United States.

To paste pictures here, go to the picture you want to post, right click on it, click on Properties, then go to the middle of that panel that will open and highlight the link (make sure you highlight the entire link, sometimes you have to scrow down a little, until the letters jpg appear), right click on it, click on copy, close that panel, come to Talk Classical, click on that square yellow icon with a mountain, a dialogue box opens with HTTP on it, delete that, left click on that field, then right click and click on paste. Then click on OK, and your picture will paste onto your message. A little complicated but once you get it, it becomes very easy.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Herkku said:


> The toilets in the new Finnish National Opera are well worth visiting, too! Maybe we should start a new thread on this subject! After all, it concern our basic needs... The convience of opera on DVD is that you can press the pause button and go for a pee or to the refrigerator, come back and continue!


Haha!
Yes, I do see the very handy feature of being able to pause a DVD when nature calls, but unfortunately my (and I guess everyone else here's) toilet doesn't have a ceiling height of three and a half metres and I don't think they're built to resemble glacial caves either.

I really must take a picture the next time I'm there. It really is spectacular.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aksel said:


> Haha!
> Yes, I do see the very handy feature of being able to pause a DVD when nature calls, but unfortunately my (and I guess everyone else here's) toilet doesn't have a ceiling height of three and a half metres and I don't think they're built to resemble glacial caves either.
> 
> I really must take a picture the next time I'm there. It really is spectacular.


Beware of what you catch in your picture.:lol:


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Beware of what you catch in your picture.:lol:


Oh, you people.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

here two South East Asia concert hall that I recommend.
http://site.aulasimfoniajakarta.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=66

http://www.esplanade.com/about_the_centre/image_gallery/index.jsp


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> Buddy, this is not a US versus Europe issue.
> If you look again, I was praising three *European* opera houses - La Fenice, La Scala, and Liceu.
> By the way, I have dual citizenship - I'm American *and* European.


So I did look again. Before praising old European opera houses, you were bashing new European opera houses:


Almaviva said:


> I'm disappointed with you Europeans and your modern buildings (except for those who quoted Vienna and Warsaw).


I am not saying that you made US vs EU issue - I was simply replying to "you Europeans" with "you USians" (sic). Citizenships and politics aside, it was "old EU" vs "new EU" issue and I was wondering why some people have hard time appreciating new art - maybe appreciating only old art is kind of "playing it safe"? Like with wine? Can't be bad if it costs that much... 
If one understands art, one does not need it to be century or two old - that's my whole point.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

graaf said:


> So I did look again. Before praising old European opera houses, you were bashing new European opera houses:
> 
> I am not saying that you made US vs EU issue - I was simply replying to "you Europeans" with "you USians" (sic). Citizenships and politics aside, it was "old EU" vs "new EU" issue and I was wondering why some people have hard time appreciating new art - maybe appreciating only old art is kind of "playing it safe"? Like with wine? Can't be bad if it costs that much...
> If one understands art, one does not need it to be century or two old - that's my whole point.


Bashing may be too strong a word (I just said I was disappointed). The "you Europeans" was just mindless banter of the gender "shame on you guys, you have these gorgeous old opera houses and you're talking about your new ones?" No offense was intended. You're relatively new here, but you may soon realize that this is a rather friendly place, and there is no hidden agenda in what I was saying, neither about US vs. Europe, nor anything about new or old art. If what I said upset you, I apologize.

By the way, we Americans also make new opera, and many other new things that later get copied elsewhere (e.g., information technology, medical technology), so let's not get into the slippery slope of stereotypes. I have nothing against my European friends here, and I think very highly of Europe - where I used to live for many years, where my roots come from - of which like I said I'm still a citizen.

About appreciating new art, I'm a fan of many 20th and 21th century operas as you can see if you read some of my posts.

But I do have a sweet spot for gorgeous places like La Fenice, La Scala, and the Liceu, and it's a feeling of strong admiration for the centuries of culture that Europe has produced, which is not the case of the United States, being it that we are a much younger country. But we don't do too poorly in the matter of innovations.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Has anyone been to Deutsche Oper Berlin?

I'm going there next April to see Lucia.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

By the way, I didn't mention that candidate to one of most awesome opera houses is currently under construction in my city. I live close to it and can watch the progress almost daily. Here are some photos:




























When it's finished it's ment to look like this:


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Yowza, Aramis. That's one green opera house. And it looks quite amazing. Will the amphitheatre also be used for opera? And where is it being built?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Aksel said:


> Yowza, Aramis. That's one green opera house. And it looks quite amazing. Will the amphitheatre also be used for opera? And where is it being built?


Yes, I also was surprised by this green idea when I saw it but after all our region is notably one of most green places in Europe with unspoiled wonders of nature like you wouldn't find on the west and I'm glad that they decided to choose project fitting this image, not some modernistic monster just to show that we aren't backward region where people build oldfashioned operas with included sitting seats of visents.

As for amphitheatre, it stood there since I remember and isn't part of the project. It seems that they found good way to put it together with opera, but I have no idea if there is going to be some symbiosis between those two objects.

What do you mean where is it being built? Part of the world or the surrounding area?


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Wow.

I hope theyre factoring enviromental sustainability and energy efficiency into the design.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Aramis said:


> What do you mean where is it being built? Part of the world or the surrounding area?


I mean as in where in I presume Poland it is being built.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Aksel said:


> I mean as in where in I presume Poland it is being built.


In Białystok:


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## curzon (Dec 1, 2010)

My favourites are Covent Garden because I associate it with so many great memories, Berlin Staats because I love Berlin and have seen some wonderful (as well as some very stupid) productions there, Bayreuth because I queued all night to get in(!!) and in the US the Met and Chicago Lyric.

Sebastian


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Since the whole world was mentioned in the initial message, I would like to inform you about a new opera house under construction in Wuxi, near Shanghai, designed by Finnish architects.










Perhaps we should all meet there some sunny day!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Aramis said:


> By the way, I didn't mention that candidate to one of most awesome opera houses is currently under construction in my city. I live close to it and can watch the progress almost daily. Here are some photos:
> 
> When it's finished it's ment to look like this:


This is the most stunning project for an opera house I've ever seen.
Spectacular!
When is it supposed to get completed?
I hope they do a worthy opening ceremony, transmitted to other parts of the world.
Is the blue band on the top left corner a river?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> When is it supposed to get completed?


On 15th april of 2010 wiseguy said that since this day it is planned to finish in 33 months.



> Is the blue band on the top left corner a river?


Unfortunately not :<

Here's a short video:


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Aramis said:


> By the way, I didn't mention that candidate to one of most awesome opera houses is currently under construction in my city. I live close to it and can watch the progress almost daily. Here are some photos:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





















Woow!


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm still looking for the best opera house in Europe! Here's where my travels have taken me so far. Hard to say which is the best - is it the acoustics, the company, the atmosphere, the seating and viewing comfort, the bars and public areas, the architecture both inside and out, the surroundings? Bottom line, I want a good performance.

Performance buzz: Covent Garden, Bastille, La Scala, Vienna
Public areas: Valencia, Vilnius, Budapest, for food/drink/hanging out
Architecture: Valencia (new), Garnier, Paris (old), Budapest
Local surroundings: (i.e. staying, approach to opera house) Valencia, Amsterdam, Palermo, La Fenice of course!


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

For me, it's probably down to the one it's easiest to get to. The ROH priced itself out of my market a long time ago. These days, by the time I've paid the rail fare to London, booked a couple of nights in an hotel and then bought the ticket, I doubt I'd have much change out of £400. Since I'm not a millionaire, it would take something very special indeed for me to shell out that kind of money. Since I've started making extended visits to Bavaria, Munich has become my favourite opera house. It's just over an hour's journey from my village, there's free travel on the city's underground/trams if you have an opera ticket, and I particularly like the way at least one performance of the longer operas on their schedule has an early start, so that out of towners can still catch their trains home.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Annied said:


> Since I've started making extended visits to Bavaria, Munich has become my favourite opera house. It's just over an hour's journey from my village, there's free travel on the city's underground/trams if you have an opera ticket, and I particularly like the way at least one performance of the longer operas on their schedule has an early start, so that out of towners can still catch their trains home.


That's really nice! I hope to visit Nationaltheater München in May, to see Tannhäuser and maybe Tosca.


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