# What's the deal with Dutilleux?



## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I listened to Dutilleux's violin concerto "Larbre des songes" this evening, and connected with the music effortlessly. The other works on the disc, "Timbres, Espace, Mouvement ou "La nuit étoilée" and "Mystère de l'instant" worked for me too. The cello concerto also connected with me on first hearing years ago, though I had to hear it twice.

So, my question is: How come?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

My older friend with more conservative tastes had the same reaction to Dutilleux, as did I. That Violin Concerto was the first thing I ever heard, and I heard it live. After it was over, I had to admit that it kept me interested the whole time even though I wasn't quite sure what had happened.

So, I don't know if I can answer your question. But I am in agreement. I can only think of one motif from the Violin Concerto(though its been a while), and yet I distinctly remember something unified about the whole thing.

I also agree that I found the Cello Concerto a tad more difficult. Of interest to you are his symphonies 1 and 2. I've heard 1 live and recall it as being the most 'conservative' thing I've ever heard of his, fitting more into the scene of the almost immediately postwar music. 2 is more out there, but not as much as the VC.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

This was an instant success with me for many reasons:






Can't wait to play it one day! So intense!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hilltroll72 said:


> I listened to Dutilleux's..... connected with me on first hearing years ago, though I had to hear it twice.
> 
> So, my question is: How come?


I don't know why you connected with him, but I really connected with his cello concerto and Sym.#2.

With the former, its partially the poetic element(I've read Baudelaire's 'Flowers of Evil' poems which in part inspired it) and also as he gives the listener a tone row at the start and takes bits of that through the whole work. At first, I could not hear that 'theme,' its very fragmented, but the more I listened to it, it came out more. Throughout this work, there are images in it for me of night, and ecstasy/rapture of love but also its dark side.

As for Sym.#2, I see it as like a modern concerto grosso, the small group contrasting with the larger group, and also the whimsy of putting an ancient instrument amongst it all (the harpsichord).

I don't 'get' his VC yet, but I aim to revisit it later. I've got all these on an EMI 2 cd set, also including 'The Shadows of Time,' 'Metaboles' and 'Le Loup.' All of those did not grab me as much as the CC and Sym.#2, but these things take time. He's a great composer but not very prolific, but maybe that's worked to his advantage. One critic said that he produces nothing but masterpieces.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I still haven't been able to get into the cello concerto, even with Rostropovich as soloist. I recently picked up the Arte Nova CD with a different performance and soloist. I'll give this one a go.

I really like the violin concerto, and Mystere de l'instant.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2012)

This thread should really have been titled "What's the deal with Hilltroll72?" because that's what it's really all about.

You connected quickly and easily with these works because you're you, because of your particular mind, because of all the pieces you had listened to before listening to Dutilleux, you were able to connect with his music, in a manner of speaking, very quickly.

Not really all that mysterious, though it might be impossible to describe why beyond my generalizations. (You know, why do you have your particular mind, why do you react to different pieces differently? I can't answer that. Why do certain types of women attract me more than others? Why do I like extremely spicy foods? Why do I favor detective fiction so much, even though I write absurdist fiction myself (and enjoy reading it, too)? I dunno. Because I'm me.) 

When I first heard Scelsi, ten years or more into my voracious journey* through twentieth century music, I hated it. The first time I unequivocally hated something contemporary. Years later, a friend of mine with a collection sized along the lines of bigshot's collection, told me maybe I should give Scelsi (read "give yourself") another chance, and loaned me several Scelsi CDs.

Magic!!

Why? Because of who I was when I first heard Scelsi. What Scelsi had written (in the solo piano piece I heard) was somehow so alien to everything I had come to know and love, that I just thought, prematurely as it turned out, Scelsi was crap. Of course, he's not. But my experience with his music was. When I listened to my friend's CDs, I had spent another fifteen years listening to more and different things, enough so that when I next listened to Scelsi, I was ready.

Easy.

*Why do I enjoy mixing metaphors so much?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

some guy said:


> This thread should really have been titled "What's the deal with Hilltroll72?" because that's what it's really all about.
> 
> You connected quickly and easily with these works because you're you, because of your particular mind, because of all the pieces you had listened to before listening to Dutilleux, you were able to connect with his music, in a manner of speaking, very quickly.
> 
> ...


You could say the same "What's the deal with HarpsichordConcerto?" or anybody, right? I'm used to it.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

The violin concerto is great. I love the harmonies.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Hilltroll72 said:


> So, my question is: How come?


So, my question is: Why not?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

quack said:


> So, my question is: Why not?


Music by other composers that has the same initial effect - a quasi alienness, requires concentration, and the connect is gradual and tentative during the first hearing. Or never connects at all, ever, ref. Boulez. _@some guy_ has gone off on an oblique that doesn't touch the phenomenon (and is expressed in his usual mildly annoying way)


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm I suppose he does tend to make smoother, richer works than many 20thC composers. They sound romantic to me, there are less staccato, seemingly random, outbursts, even when there are outbursts of dissonant noise they seem to fit better. They seem like film scores a little, you can imagine action to fit them. Just listening to his piano sonata which starts off very lush romantic like Chopin but begins to develop much sharper contrasts and thumps later on. Perhaps it helps sugar the pill before before offering some atonal medicine. (happily ignorant as to if it is actually atonal)

well maybe.

I suppose we all instinctively fit music into eras or genres and 20thC is the one to approach with trepidation because it could be literally anything. from Part or Debussy to Stockhausen or Xenakis, whereas baroque does tend to sound all baroque. I agree that saying it is your fault you connect with them or you don't isn't very helpful, better to find out what that fault is.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

quack said:


> [...]
> I suppose we all instinctively fit music into eras or genres and 20thC is the one to approach with trepidation because it could be literally anything. from Part or Debussy to Stockhausen or Xenakis, whereas baroque does tend to sound all baroque. I agree that saying it is your fault you connect with them or you don't isn't very helpful, better to find out what that fault is.


You're right - it is all over the place. Actually, I don't consider My non-Boulezness to be a fault - on my part _or_ his. It just means that his opinions have even less weight than they otherwise would.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2012)

I would like to just point out that "fault" is not a word that I used, or even the concept I was working with.

"Fault" is totally alien to what I was expressing. It would be kinda like saying "it's Hilltroll72's fault for being Hilltroll72." Fault? Really? What the hell does fault have to do with it?

Completely and totally and entirely other to what I actually really and truly said. And a big thanks to HarpsichordConcerto for being the first to twist things that way, which he did, even though, you will notice, he did not use the term "fault," either.

When I first started posting on internet forums, it was interesting to be excoriated not for what I'd actually said but for what someone had interpreted me as having said. That was then; now is now. Now it's just (mildly) annoying.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

some guy said:


> When I first started posting on internet forums, it was interesting to be excoriated not for what I'd actually said but for what someone had interpreted me as having said. That was then; now is now. Now it's just (mildly) annoying.


Yeah, we are all pretty much just reading into 90% of what the other person really means.

http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Why don't we get back to the music? The flute piece on this page is great, very rhythmically diverse and inventive.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

its because Dutilleux is amazing ^_^


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## cybernaut (Feb 6, 2021)

I've just begun listening to Dutilleux for the first time this evening and I am LOVING what I have heard. Started with cello concerto, then Symphony 1.

I find his music constantly interesting, and I love that he sounds so thoroughly modern while not wallowing overmuch in the dissonance that makes me hate so many 20th Century composers.

It's great to have a new favorite composer!


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

One of my favorites among more recent composers. His symphonies, cello and violin concerti, string quartet, and piano sonata are all top-notch. Ravishing, ephemeral, sensuous music that inhabits a haunting dreamworld between consonance and dissonance.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

The first Dutilleux piece I got into was the string quartet, Ainsi la Nuit. I found it's shifting sands of sound Intriguing and still do.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Merl said:


> The first Dutilleux piece I got into was the string quartet, Ainsi la Nuit. I found it's shifting sands of sound Intriguing and still do.


That's on my desert island list Merl. Dutilleux wasn't prolific but what he did produce is of the highest poetic quality imv. His concertos and symphonies and other works are regular required reading and listening for me.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

mikeh375 said:


> That's on my desert island list Merl. Dutilleux wasn't prolific but what he did produce is of the highest poetic quality imv. His concertos and symphonies and other works are regular required reading and listening for me.


Here's my brief blog review of recommended recordings of Dutilleux's Ainsa la Nuit.

https://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/merl/3445-dutilleux-ainsi-la-nuit.html


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Never really listened to him before, but hearing his Symphony 2 now, and it's very engaging.


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