# Elena House 13 yrs old, singing "Chi il Bel Sogno di Doretta" Puccini's "La Rondine"



## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

*Elena House 13 yrs old, singing "Chi il Bel Sogno di Doretta" Puccini's "La Rondine"*

I think this is the mosy difficult song I have ever sung, I struggled with the high notes.
I would love to hear your advice. 

Thank you very much for your time.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Elena, it sounds to me as though your high notes were all very clear and clean, without any sound of strain -- if you "struggled," it doesn't show.

If you are planning to major in vocal performance when you go to college, you'll be able to work on your range with your teacher. I'm certainly not a professional musician, but someone who is -- the internationally known baritone Wolfgang Koch -- says that training can extend the top of one's range. Unfortunately, that doesn't work at the low end of one's range.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

MAuer said:


> Elena, it sounds to me as though your high notes were all very clear and clean, without any sound of strain -- if you "struggled," it doesn't show.
> 
> If you are planning to major in vocal performance when you go to college, you'll be able to work on your range with your teacher. I'm certainly not a professional musician, but someone who is -- the internationally known baritone Wolfgang Koch -- says that training can extend the top of one's range. Unfortunately, that doesn't work at the low end of one's range.


Thank you! 
I am working on my low range with some vocalises. Also I am trying to sing some songs in the middle range.
I will film my new song next week. I just uploaded my new piano video.


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

For now that's your best video, I think. Just wonderful.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Hesoos said:


> For now that's your best video, I think. Just wonderful.


Thank you so much! I hope you like my "Ave Maria". I just filmed this video today. I love this song so much!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Both are very beautifully sung! I think your intonation getting very good actually and your tone is very nice. Brilliant job! :clap:


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Very nice!


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Both are very beautifully sung! I think your intonation getting very good actually and your tone is very nice. Brilliant job! :clap:


Thank you for your kind words! I think my teacher deserves the credit. He works very hard with me. Besides future songs, I always get vocalizes from him, too.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

arts said:


> Thank you for your kind words! I think my teacher deserves the credit. He works very hard with me. Besides future songs, I always get vocalizes from him, too.


You must have a brilliant teacher.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

:clap: That was very good! You have a really nice voice, it didn't sound like you struggled with the high notes at all. And the best thing was, that even if you did, it didn't show on your face. 

I'm not a singer so I can't give any advice.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You must have a brilliant teacher.


Yes. My teacher was an opera singer. He is very strict and kind. he works very hard with me.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

MaestroViolinist said:


> :clap: That was very good! You have a really nice voice, it didn't sound like you struggled with the high notes at all. And the best thing was, that even if you did, it didn't show on your face.
> 
> I'm not a singer so I can't give any advice.


Thank you for the nice comment. I play a little piano too.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

arts said:


> Thank you for the nice comment. I play a little piano too.


Yes, I must learn a little bit of piano one day, it would come in handy!


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Well.. You have a beautiful voice... But this is *not Puccini*. It is something else. I would suggest you to listen carefully to Anna Moffo's version or Angela Gheorghiu. What about your dress? I don't understand it. Try to sing more naturally; the best voices are natural voices, even if it is demanding, you have to show no effort. Singing must flow like speaking, naturally. This is just my opinion. Personally, I love this opera.






The best Doretta I've ever heard:






Telling you you are awesome it won't help you really. Nice voice... Anna Moffo's voice is deeper... Like Puccini wanted it to be sung, I suppose. I hope you understand every word... That's kind of important. Doretta's role is quite difficult, a voice between soprano and mezzo. This wonderful opera was neglected for many years, some people even said it was an operetta, it is not. 
Susana would be an easier role for you (le nozze di Figaro), I think. I think your voice is more soprano coloratura... Am I wrong? Doretta is a dramatic soprano. You voice is beautiful but too young for the role. Voice is like red wine... Again, this is JUST my opinion.

This version is more like your voice, still interesting






Best of lucks.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Your ending seems a bit out of tune. Please listen to it carefully.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Don't ask me to be nice or tactful, I am not. I have two sons and I've never told them anything but the truth. I think they are grateful because of that.

Martin, honest


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Myaskovsky2002 is just about one of the nicest people on the forums.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Myaskovsky2002 is just about one of the nicest people on the forums.


Thank you very much... You are too kind. Maybe because I am a zero IQ? LOL. It helps.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I guess Helena didn't like my comments... She didn't dare to answer. Some people like just congrats. I am sorry... Not so sorry.... LOL. You asked for our opinions! Here you are... We always risk something when we ask for an opinion. My ears are very developped, a bit too much. A small brain but big ears. LOL? Furthermore, I know this opera *very well*.

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Just for fun, take look to my son:











He is not 13, he turned 29 on June, 6.
He is a professional musician.

Martin


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I guess Helena didn't like my comments... She didn't dare to answer. Some people like just congrats. I am sorry... Not so sorry.... LOL. You asked for our opinions! Here you are... We always risk something when we ask for an opinion. My ears are very developped, a bit too much. A small brain but big ears. LOL? Furthermore, I know this opera *very well*.
> 
> Martin


I'm sorry I couldn't write back sooner. After all the good advice you gave I will be responding in just a moment. I am home-schooled and have classes year-round. I also have singing, piano, acting, dance, gymnastics and martial arts classes most every day. You can see videos of me doing each on my Youtube channel. My singing teacher in Paris laughs at me saying "do we live in the same time dimension?" Today I was on a German radio show and I also had a meeting last night with many film and music producers and got home after 1 am. Here is a picture from last night's event.









~Elena~


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Well.. You have a beautiful voice... But this is *not Puccini*. It is something else. I would suggest you to listen carefully to Anna Moffo's version or Angela Gheorghiu. What about your dress? I don't understand it. Try to sing more naturally; the best voices are natural voices, even if it is demanding, you have to show no effort. Singing must flow like speaking, naturally. This is just my opinion. Personally, I love this opera.
> 
> The best Doretta I've ever heard:
> 
> ...


Hi Martin.

Thank you so much for all this great advice. I can't wait until my voice matures and I'll know what type of soprano I am. My teacher said it continually changes but will have the biggest change up when I'm around 16 or 17.

I agree with you about hearing I'm "awesome" won't help me. You are just like my mother and my teacher. She and he always point out the parts I need to fix. Rarely to I hear what you said in your first sentence "You have a beautiful voice". Thank you.

I hope I can grow into a voice that can do Puccini the way it should be done. My first try with Opera was from Le nozze di Figaro. My teacher assigned me "Porgi Amour". I hope you don't mind if I post that here.






All of my videos are assignments from my teacher. Besides doing his vocalises he has me sing certain songs to work on a certain part of my singing.

Your question: "What about your dress? I don't understand it."

Here is a picture of a French dress in the Mid-19th century from Wikipedia.









Oh by the way. I subscribed to your son's Youtube channel and watched all his videos. He's good! 

Thank you so much for your time.

~Elena~


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

arts said:


> Hi Martin.
> 
> Thank you so much for all this great advice. I can't wait until my voice matures and I'll know what type of soprano I am. My teacher said it continually changes but will have the biggest change up when I'm around 16 or 17.
> 
> ...


This role fits you better... I'd suggest to COMPARE. you lack of fire here. Nuances, we say in French






You need to sing con fuoco! You seem a little quiet here, maybe too quiet
I am sorry. I love this opera too.

Martin


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

arts said:


> I'm sorry I couldn't write back sooner. After all the good advice you gave I will be responding in just a moment. I am home-schooled and have classes year-round. I also have singing, piano, acting, dance, gymnastics and martial arts classes most every day. You can see videos of me doing each on my Youtube channel. My singing teacher in Paris laughs at me saying "do we live in the same time dimension?" Today I was on a German radio show and I also had a meeting last night with many film and music producers and got home after 1 am. Here is a picture from last night's event.
> 
> ~Elena~


My goodness, you are busy! Do you speak German?


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

arts said:


> Hi Martin.
> 
> Thank you so much for all this great advice. I can't wait until my voice matures and I'll know what type of soprano I am. My teacher said it continually changes but will have the biggest change up when I'm around 16 or 17.
> 
> ...


My mother always told me : don't bite more than yo can chew. If you like singing try to do it full time. Too many activities... That's for little kids. Concentrate on your passion more and more. I'm experienced in that. My son, John dedicated his life to music, now he is a huge producer. Other guys he knows making music part-time, they're still there... And finally took music as a hobby.

http://johnnathanielproducer.com/

Take a look.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> My mother always told me : don't bite more than yo can chew. If you like singing try to do it full time. Two many activities... That's for little kids. Concentrate on your passion more and more. I'm experienced in that. My son, John dedicated his life to music, now he is a huge producer. Other guys he knows making music part-time, they're still there... And finally took music as a hobby.
> 
> http://johnnathanielproducer.com/
> 
> ...


Myaskovsky2002 you are brilliant.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Myaskovsky2002 you are brilliant.


My mother was; remeber my IQ....

But I M proud my two sons followed what they liked to do. John, music - Christopher, a philosophy teacher.

I was a project leader in Information systems for 26 years. I have a Master degree in information systems, but my true vocation was music. My father changed my path. I still have hard fellings about that.

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> My mother was, remeber my IQ.... No LOL
> 
> Martin


Your mother was brilliant too. :lol: But you are definitely a very encouraging member in this particular thread.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Your mother was brilliant too. :lol: But you are definitely a very encouraging member in this particular thread.


As ALWAYS you are being too kind. Thank you.

Martin


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> My mother always told me : don't bite more than yo can chew. If you like singing try to do it full time. Too many activities... That's for little kids. Concentrate on your passion more and more. I'm experienced in that. My son, John dedicated his life to music, now he is a huge producer. Other guys he knows making music part-time, they're still there... And finally took music as a hobby.
> 
> http://johnnathanielproducer.com/
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I will keep it in mind. Have a great day!


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

MAuer said:


> My goodness, you are busy! Do you speak German?


My mom speaks 4 languages. I only speak English. I learn the words to songs I sing in different languages. I hope you like my "Ave Maria". That was my first time singing in Latin. My next song is in Czech.

I like what I am doing. I was cast in a movie a month ago. I will sing, play piano and do a Japanese martial art. The director said he might have me do some gymnastics and dance, also. I am so looking forward to working hard on the set.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I envy your mom. To be able to speak four languages is fantastic. Although I understand and read German, I'm not nearly as fluent in it as I would like to be. (My mom came from Germany, but we never learned to speak the language as children -- I studied it in college.) Still, knowing another language opens up a whole culture for you.

Of course, you'll have plenty of time to study other languages. If you're planning a career as an opera singer, you'll want to learn Italian, German, or French, since the majority of the mainstream opera repertoire is written in one of those three. It's great that you'll be singing something in Czech and getting familiar with the sound of that language.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

arts said:


> My mom speaks 4 languages. I only speak English. I learn the words to songs I sing in different languages. I hope you like my "Ave Maria". That was my first time singing in Latin. My next song is in Czech.
> 
> I like what I am doing. I was cast in a movie a month ago. I will sing, play piano and do a Japanese martial art. The director said he might have me do some gymnastics and dance, also. I am so looking forward to working hard on the set.


Mu son is also extremely busy too, he produces music 90% of his time. He sleeps 10% of his time. Conclusion? He just produces, he is busy producing music, singing, playing the piano or the guitar. What about you? You are busy doing many different things instead of concentrating on music, I wouldn't be surprised if you decided to be an accountant afterwards. Maybe for you, It is just to say, maybe, it is just a hobby... You can read my opinion above about chewing... But, of course this is just my opinion... How many things the great composers did? Mozart, Wagner, Beethoven... Just music, my friend, just music. Your success is proportional to the time you invest. It makes sense, n'est-ce pas? Bifurcation leads NW.... Nowhere.

Martin, father of two wonderful kids.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Mu son is also extremely busy too, he produces music 90% of his time. He sleeps 10% of his time. Conclusion? He just produces, he is busy producing music, singing, playing the piano or the guitar. What about you? You are busy doing many different things instead of concentrating on music, I wouldn't be surprised if you decided to be an accountant afterwards. Maybe for you, It is just to say, maybe, it is just a hobby... You can read my opinion above about chewing... But, of course this is just my opinion... How many things the great composers did? Mozart, Wagner, Beethoven... Just music, my friend, just music. Your success is proportional to the time you invest. It makes sense, n'est-ce pas? Bifurcation leads NW.... Nowhere.
> 
> Martin, father of two wonderful kids.


I agree with this.

@arts: I also think you do way to many things to really be successful in one area. You have to choose one and focus on that. I do nothing but compose and play music, myaskovky2002's son only focuses on music, Mozart only focused on music, most of the great composers and musicians only focused on music and that's what they became successful in. You do too many things. I wouldn't be surprised of you ended up with a very middle-class job in some boring office because you couldn't focus on one area of expertise when you were younger. I suggest you just do music. Music is brilliant. Do singing and a bit of piano and stop all your other hobbies and you'll improve at an astounding rate.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Music is brilliant. Do singing and a bit of piano and stop all your other hobbies and you'll improve at an astounding rate.


That is assuming that music is Elena's real passion and not what her parents think she ought to be doing. Forgive me for saying this, but being home schooled means that you have a limited view on the real world out there. My daughter discovered her passion for herself, through contact with opportunities outside her family - it came as a surprise for all of us.

But it suits me, because one day she is going to be Stage Manager at the Met.

On the HD performances, just after saying "maestro to the pit", she's going to turn to the camera and say "Hello, Mum".


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, let's just hope that Elena chooses her own passion and continues only focusing on that passion.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Elena is 13. Many of the greatest opera singers started in their 20s and 30s. It's a career where your prime time will be in your 40s and 50s. Plenty of time for Elena to spend chasing other passions and become a well rounded individual. You don't really start singing opera until you're a fully matured adult anyways.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Elena is 13. Many of the greatest opera singers started in their 20s and 30s. It's a career where your prime time will be in your 40s and 50s. Plenty of time for Elena to spend chasing other passions and become a well rounded individual. You don't really start singing opera until you're a fully matured adult anyways.


Is she really wants to focus on music and opera in particular I think it is good to start off young like she is and only focus on music and not get caught up in all these other hobbies. Doing too many things is only going to slow a person down in the area that they most want to be professional in.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Is she really wants to focus on music and opera in particular I think it is good to start off young like she is and only focus on music and not get caught up in all these other hobbies. Doing too many things is only going to slow a person down in the area that they most want to be professional in.


You dont know what you want when you're 13. Many a child has chased a single passion only to overdo it and come to hate that passion.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> You dont know what you want when you're 13. Many a child has chased a single passion only to overdo it and come to hate that passion.


Really? Please provide some examples.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Live another decade and you'll find such examples.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> @arts: I also think you do way to many things to really be successful in one area. You have to choose one and focus on that. I do nothing but compose and play music, myaskovky2002's son only focuses on music, Mozart only focused on music, most of the great composers and musicians only focused on music and that's what they became successful in. You do too many things. I wouldn't be surprised of you ended up with a very middle-class job in some boring office because you couldn't focus on one area of expertise when you were younger. I suggest you just do music. Music is brilliant. Do singing and a bit of piano and stop all your other hobbies and you'll improve at an astounding rate.


I would like to give you at least five "likes" for your post. You are brilliant!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Couchie said:


> You dont know what you want when you're 13. Many a child has chased a single passion only to overdo it and come to hate that passion.


My son knew when he was 15, not 13.... "Dad, if I cannot be a musician, I prefer a bullet in my head". Ok, son, be a musician then, was my answer....trembling

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Live another decade and you'll find such examples.


I still think it unwise to be doing so many things in life instead of following one dream and becoming an expert in that. At 13 years old, it is okay to not know what you really want to do in life and gaining knowledge in various fields of expertise is okay. I wouldn't recommend becoming too busy with so many things and carrying them on through the years because it would be difficult to drop all the other hobbies in order to become proficient at one thing. Also, by doing so many things it would slow you down too much if you already know what you really want to do in life. I would suggest to Elena that she stop a few of her hobbies in a few years time and only focus on what she really wants to do.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

This is going to be my very last post. I don' t want to waste your time, you seem to be a very busy girl, neither MY TIME.
I am not your father (1). You sing out of tune (2), professional singers, you like her or not, as Celine Dion (personally I don't like her) sings/sung very well since they were 5 years old. No training necessary, it is a gift. I think you don't have that gift and your piano is not very nice. I know you wanted our congrats. Well, you haven't gotten mine. I have always been too honest with my kids, that's why they consider me a good critic and asked often for my opinion... I don't give this kind of "gifts", it is not good for them. In my humble opinion, you have created this thread in order to be encouraged but also admired. Many people are too polite here and they will tell you that you are awesome, well, you are not. "keep your day job" is my message. Do you think I am cruel? Yes, I am. I don't want you to suffer, I respect you as a human being. I wish you the best of lucks on what ever you undertake.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> This is going to be my very last post. I don' t want to waste your time, you seem to be a very busy girl, neither MY TIME.
> I am not your father (1). You sing out of tune (2), professional singers, you like her or not, as Celine Dion (personally I don't like her) sings/sung very well since they were 5 years old. No training necessary, it is a gift. I think you don't have that gift and your piano is not very nice. I know you wanted our congrats. Well, you haven't gotten mine. I have always been too honest with my kids, that's why they consider me a good critic and asked often for my opinion... I don't give this kind of "gifts", it is not good for them. In my humble opinion, you have created this thread in order to be encouraged but also admired. Many people are too polite here and they will tell you that you are awesome, well, you are not. "keep your day job" is my message. Do you think I am cruel? Yes, I am. I don't want you to suffer, I respect you as a human being. I wish you the best of lucks on what ever you undertake.
> 
> Sincerely,
> ...


That is a brilliant post! It is a bit harsh, but it is honest and truthful. I wish I could give you at least ten "likes" for that post.

I certainly do agree with most of the things you have said, but I do think Elena has the capacity to do better if she really puts her mind to doing only music. She _does_ sing out of tune and her piano playing _is_ quite inexpressive, but if she focuses only on music from now on I think she will be surprised at how good she gets in a short amount of time.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Well.. You have a beautiful voice... But this is *not Puccini*. It is something else. I would suggest you to listen carefully to Anna Moffo's version or Angela Gheorghiu. What about your dress? I don't understand it. Try to sing more naturally; the best voices are natural voices, even if it is demanding, you have to show no effort. Singing must flow like speaking, naturally. This is just my opinion. Personally, I love this opera.
> Telling you you are awesome it won't help you really. Nice voice... Anna Moffo's voice is deeper... Like Puccini wanted it to be sung, I suppose. I hope you understand every word... That's kind of important. Doretta's role is quite difficult, a voice between soprano and mezzo. This wonderful opera was neglected for many years, some people even said it was an operetta, it is not.
> Susana would be an easier role for you (le nozze di Figaro), I think. I think your voice is more soprano coloratura... Am I wrong? Doretta is a dramatic soprano. You voice is beautiful but too young for the role. Voice is like red wine... Again, this is JUST my opinion.
> Martin


One, the man character of La rondine is called Magda, not Doretta. Doretta is merely the person Prunier's little ditty is about.
Two, Magda is definitely not a dramatic role. It is one of Puccini's most lyric roles, rather like Mimí. True, a lot of the parlando bits are rather low, but there are a lot of the floaty high notes that is a staple of Puccini's soprano roles (like the pianissimo (I think) high C's in Chi il bel sogno di Doretta). Gilda dalla Rizza, the original Magda most cerainly was a soprano.
And La rondine was conceived as an operetta, sort of a lighter Rosenkavalier, only in Italian. The finished product might be far removed from that, but it is an operetta, especially the first two acts.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Aksel said:


> One, the man character of La rondine is called Magda, not Doretta. Doretta is merely the person Prunier's little ditty is about.
> Two, Magda is definitely not a dramatic role. It is one of Puccini's most lyric roles, rather like Mimí. True, a lot of the parlando bits are rather low, but there are a lot of the floaty high notes that is a staple of Puccini's soprano roles (like the pianissimo (I think) high C's in Chi il bel sogno di Doretta). Gilda dalla Rizza, the original Magda most cerainly was a soprano.
> And La rondine was conceived as an operetta, sort of a lighter Rosenkavalier, only in Italian. The finished product might be far removed from that, but it is an operetta, especially the first two acts.


Yes, Magda. This was considered an operetta by some people, I do not agree. I won't waste my time arguing. I know very well this opera. This is not a comedy at all. Rosenkavalier is. Both possible endings are sad, the girl abandonning the guy (like a seagul as Prunier said, flies toward the sun) or the second version where she commits suicide. It is not an operetta but an "opéra-léger). You can make a reasearch about this, indeed they/we cannot agree on this point. Opera or Operetta. What difference it makes? It is awesome anyhow! Would you also say that la Fanciulla del West is also an operetta? (and with a happy ending!), well, nobody said so!

Nomenclatures...

Martin


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Yes, Magda. This was considered an operetta by some people, I do not agree. I won't waste my time arguing. I know very well this opera. This is not a comedy at all. Rosenkavalier is. Both possible endings are sad, the girl abandonning the guy (like a seagul as Prunier said, flies toward the sun) or the second version where she commits suicide. It is not an operetta but an "opéra-léger). You can make a reasearch about this, indeed they/we cannot agree on this point. Opera or Operetta. What difference it makes? It is awesome anyhow! Would you also say that la Fanciulla del West is also an operetta? (and with a happy ending!), well, nobody said so!
> 
> Nomenclatures...
> 
> Martin


The bird is a swallow, as in Rondine, you know.
I would say that the first two acts are at least very reminiscent of operetta. You are right that the third act is ultimately tragic, but the first two acts are comic. The pair of Lisette and Prunier is a classic buffo pair, just like Magdalena and David in Meistersinger. I'm not saying La rondine is an operetta, I consider it a tragic comedy myself, but it was originally conceived as an operetta.
And no, Fanciulla is not an operetta. It does not contain the same comic elements as Rondine.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

MAuer said:


> I envy your mom. To be able to speak four languages is fantastic. Although I understand and read German, I'm not nearly as fluent in it as I would like to be. (My mom came from Germany, but we never learned to speak the language as children -- I studied it in college.) Still, knowing another language opens up a whole culture for you.
> 
> Of course, you'll have plenty of time to study other languages. If you're planning a career as an opera singer, you'll want to learn Italian, German, or French, since the majority of the mainstream opera repertoire is written in one of those three. It's great that you'll be singing something in Czech and getting familiar with the sound of that language.


I am home-schooled. One of my classes is Italian. My singing teacher helps with pronunciation in the songs he assigns me but to really learn the language I have to hit the books and CDs. I'm only in my first class of Italian now. I wish one of the languages my mom can speak is Italian. I got interested in Italian for my singing.
I am almost finished with my song in Czech. That was quite challenging.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Actually singing and playing piano are what I picked. My mom is an artist and tried teaching me to draw and paint. Which I did, but I wasn’t passionate about it. My dad is a gold medalist in gymnastics and martial arts teacher. I do those too because I’m still in middle school and need gym classes. 
The Met!! I really want to go to the Met for a performance someday. That would be so cool. Is your daughter a stage manager now or is she studying to be one?


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Elena is 13. Many of the greatest opera singers started in their 20s and 30s. It's a career where your prime time will be in your 40s and 50s. Plenty of time for Elena to spend chasing other passions and become a well rounded individual. You don't really start singing opera until you're a fully matured adult anyways.


Hi Couchie. Your green monster looks cool here. More like Thor. 
By "well rounded" I hope you don't mean I'll become "round"! LOL

I'm a beginner of a 40 year journey. My singing teacher keeps telling me that he is teaching me the basics now and we don't know what style my matured voice will have. He told me that I will not be able to sing some of the opera songs until I am in my 30's.

I just made a demo video for my agent. This video shows all the different things I practice. A year or 2 later I will probably have to make an updated one since I will be 15 and hopefully improve what I am doing. Take a peek if you have a chance. Have a nice weekend!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Elena House, I don't want to cause you any dismay, but I think your other hobbies are holding back your musical passion. I am glad you have chosen music for yourself and I hope you continue on to become a great singer, but as of now I would suggest you _only_ focus on music. I know singers who at ages a few years before 13 only focused music and they had progressed with music quite fast. Their intonation and their quality of sound were better at 13 than what you are showing at the moment. I'm not saying that you can't be as good as them though, I am saying that if you focus on your passion without all your other distractions you may be capable of achieving a better performance. At the moment I'll be blunt but truthful in saying that your singing and piano playing really aren't that great, but you certainly are capable of more if you put your mind to it.

Another thing, don't become public before you're ready. That's just my advice and you don't have to follow it, but certainly think about what I am saying: I BELIEVE YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO BECOME BRILLIANT. DON'T BECOME PUBLIC BEFORE YOU BECOME BRILLIANT, THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE and DON'T START THINKING YOU HAVE NATURAL TALENT, NO ONE HAS THAT.

I hope to see that next time you have progressed further with your singing. Think about what I have said. I am going out of my way to help you and I would be very pleased to see that you have at least spoken to someone about pursuing a musical career and stopping your other hobbies for the time being.

Cheers,
CoAG :tiphat:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

^A moderator liked that post. I said something like that to Elena on another forum and I got told off and the thread was closed.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, not all moderators are identical to each other you know. We are vaguely human :lol:.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I actually think Elena is doing extremely well. You guys should attend more community youth singing recitals.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I actually think Elena is doing extremely well. You guys should attend more community youth singing recitals.


I have seen and heard many other young singers and I think that they are doing a fine job and Elena can do better. Elena House is capable of doing better in my opinion and I need to see and hear her improve.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I have seen and heard many other young singers and I think that they are doing a fine job and Elena can do better. Elena House is capable of doing better in my opinion and I need to see and hear her improve.


Basically, my opinion is that what an aspiring opera singer does before age 18 is gravy. Learn something about technique and theory perhaps, but serious study begins when you're an adult, have a fach, gain the actual ability to sing opera.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Basically, my opinion is that what an aspiring opera singer does before age 18 is gravy. Learn something about technique and theory perhaps, but serious study begins when you're an adult, have a fach, gain the actual ability to sing opera.


I agree with that too. I'm not talking about singing opera, I'm talking about singing in general. I've heard singers better than her at 13 who sing various lieder magically. They might not be as great as any Birgit Nilsson or Waltraud Meier, but their intonation, quality of tone, diction, accuracy etc. are all better than what Elena House is producing now. I see these other young singers improve with each performance but I fail to see as much improvement in the performances of Elena House.

What I'd like to see is some real focus on music as she did say that music is what she chose and what she wants to do. I think she should spend her time learning all she can about the history of singing, different singing styles and really gaining knowledge in this field of performance as that can help one's passion too. I think she needs to focus more on improving and less on her publicity as getting out in the world while still not being a terrific singer won't help.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I agree with that too. I'm not talking about singing opera, I'm talking about singing in general. I've heard singers better than her at 13 who sing various lieder magically. They might not be as great as any Birgit Nilsson or Waltraud Meier, but their intonation, quality of tone, diction, accuracy etc. are all better than what Elena House is producing now. I see these other young singers improve with each performance but I fail to see as much improvement in the performances of Elena House.
> 
> What I'd like to see is some real focus on music as she did say that music is what she chose and what she wants to do. I think she should spend her time learning all she can about the history of singing, different singing styles and really gaining knowledge in this field of performance as that can help one's passion too. I think she needs to focus more on improving and less on her publicity as getting out in the world while still not being a terrific singer won't help.


There was a video posted here that for the life of me I can't find, but it was either Diana Damrau or Natalie Dessay giving a truly awful performance, poor pitch and intonation, in a musical as a teenager. They, of course, go on to be one of the premier sopranos of their generation.

Yet how often do we see sensationalist news stories... IS THIS THE NEXT MOZART? of some poor young prodigy of unbelievable ability that we of course never hear from again.

Meanwhile, Valentina Lisitsa rises as one of the most famous pianists of today after spending her youth convinced she was to be a chess player until college... Astrid Varnay was conviced she was a pianist until she turns 18 and transforms herself into one of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of all time.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Both are very beautifully sung! I think your intonation getting very good actually and your tone is very nice. Brilliant job! :clap:


As you can see in this post, I was giving her praise for her efforts. I have made this mistake too many times when giving feedback to any performer. I would much rather people on forums and in real life give honest and constructive criticism, praising the positive areas but also hilighting the negatives more. Threads such as these in my opinion are not just:

_*Here is my performance*
Oh well done!
Very good!
*Thank you very much! I also do this and this and this....*
Very nice! I wish you good luck!_

But should be used as a place to learn how they can improve. People here shouldn't be scared to point out the negatives. Performers can't reflect on their performance by theirselves, they need judgements from others to point out he good and the bad in order to improve. Praise is good, but really the best criticism and feedback I have seen in this thread are Myaskovsky2002's. Maybe the fact that I don't really see many negative points hilighted for Elena to reflect on here is one reason why she isn't improving as much as she could. I do know though that people all improve at their own rate, so Elena could just be improving slower than most other people, but that does not mean she can't receive constructive criticism that hilights both the pros and the cons.

Elena is learning. People who are still learning can't survive purely on positive feedback all the time as it can change the way they think they are performing. But then again, they must be told when they _have_ improved so they know at least they have taken the feedback and practised in effect to get better at whatever aspect of their performance needs improving.

I don't know, this may be a personal thing but it can sometimes infuriate me to see nothing but praise and on a performance by _any_ musician when there are noticeable areas of improvement. I hope to see more constructive comments to help young performers such as this in the future.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> There was a video posted here that for the life of me I can't find, but it was either Diana Damrau or Natalie Dessay giving a truly awful performance, poor pitch and intonation, in a musical as a teenager. They, of course, go on to be one of the premier sopranos of their generation.
> 
> Yet how often do we see sensationalist news stories... IS THIS THE NEXT MOZART? of some poor young prodigy of unbelievable ability that we of course never hear from again.
> 
> Meanwhile, Valentina Lisitsa rises as one of the most famous pianists of today after spending her youth convinced she was to be a chess player until college... Astrid Varnay was conviced she was a pianist until she turns 18 and transforms herself into one of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of all time.


But you are making assumptions about Elena now. It is better to ask her for herself if what she wants to do and wait and see what she ends up doing. I don't want her to push herself too much into becoming an operatic soprano at such a young age, I just want to see that she does a better job of what she is passionate about at the moment.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, I found Myaskovsky2002's comments utterly tasteless for a full grown man to make to a 13 year old girl, and as if his son's ability to fool around in Logic Pro can at all be compared to learning and mastering the operatic art form.


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## Hesoos (Jun 9, 2012)

I think a 13 years girl is able to decide what to do with his life if she has support and help.
Mozart created his first opera at age 12. Carreras made his debut on the opera stage at the age of 11 as Trujamán in Manuel de Falla's El retablo de Maese Pedro. Callas received her musical education at age 14...Rossini singed in the operas with her mother when he was a baby....

I think Helena House has so great voice that she would start to sing in some opera.

And for other hobbies, it's nice to be used to do sports like martial arts or gymnastics: If the body works well the mind works well.

Helena House, I'm impressed. Your voice is really something else. I imagine you as Rusalka, Mimì, Butterfly, Liù, Gilda... your voice is so innocent or angelical. Have you listened to the song to the moon from Rusalka? there is a mermaid singing to the moon, I think it would fit you. In the link is the video with René Fleming, I think your voice could fit better in the character than her.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Hesoos said:


> I think a 13 years girl is able to decide what to do with his life if she has support and help.
> Mozart created his first opera at age 12. Carreras made his debut on the opera stage at the age of 11 as Trujamán in Manuel de Falla's El retablo de Maese Pedro. Callas received her musical education at age 14...Rossini singed in the operas with her mother when he was a baby....


I'm not saying a person can't, but they don't HAVE TO in opera, given the precedent of many famous opera singers starting out way past age 13 and after starting a totally different career. If you want to be a figure skater or a gymnast, it's a different story because you have much less time to achieve that dream before you're too old. Opera singer... you got time.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Couchie said:


> I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, I found Myaskovsky2002's comments utterly tasteless for a full grown man to make to a 13 year old girl, and as if his son's ability to fool around in Logic Pro can at all be compared to learning and mastering the operatic art form.


Of courrrrrseeeee... You know why???? Because I live in Quebec.

I will be out of ths blue. My son has a puppy, she's 2.5 months, i congratulate her whe she does her stuff outside and reprimand her when she does it inside the house, also when she takes my shoes. Then, I am teaching her what I like and what I dislike. I have two children, does Couchie have children? Do you know that in order to educate your children it is not good to congratulate them whatever they do? It is better to be objective and they will try to improve... Congratulations are good when you are sincere, reprimands are also good when you are sincere. Corollary, be sincere, it is always rewarding for the person or animal you have to educate. When you are not sincere and you pray...you are making a prejudice. This is my personal experience. I was just giving my opinion... Being harsh with me is absolutely USELESS. I will ignore you, and C'est tout. I think I can speak English, French and Spanish, can you? Well, after your reasoning, the fact I live in Quebec I am not smart. Prove me you are smarter than me.

Martin, fed up


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I'm not saying a person can't, but they don't HAVE TO in opera, given the precedent of many famous opera singers starting out way past age 13 and after starting a totally different career. If you want to be a figure skater or a gymnast, it's a different story because you have much less time to achieve that dream before you're too old. Opera singer... you got time.


Thank you! I like what you said "Learn something about technique and theory perhaps" "Opera singer... you got time" my teacher will agree with you. There are some opera songs I love to sing. My teacher said I shouldn't sing these songs until I am in my 20's - 30's. He taught me that singing opera songs that are too difficult at a young age will hurt my voice. There are many notes I sang softer because my vocal folds are not fully developed yet. I am not allowed to force my voice to make the sound stronger, yet. I will keep training and learning technique and see how my voice changes.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Hesoos said:


> I think a 13 years girl is able to decide what to do with his life if she has support and help.
> Mozart created his first opera at age 12. Carreras made his debut on the opera stage at the age of 11 as Trujamán in Manuel de Falla's El retablo de Maese Pedro. Callas received her musical education at age 14...Rossini singed in the operas with her mother when he was a baby....
> 
> I think Helena House has so great voice that she would start to sing in some opera.
> ...


I am so amazed that you mentioned "Song to the Moon". It's like you read my teacher's mind. He assigned me this song a couple weeks ago. He taught me the Czech words first. Actually I am going to film it today! Maybe by tomorrow I can upload the video. I LOVE the song! I have watched the video you linked here many times during these 2 weeks. We went to a lake yesterday to film some water footage. 
Thank you for the encouragement. I enjoy my mom's art work, and my dad teaches me gymnastics and martial arts. I learned to be patient, disciplined and consistent from that. I like you said "If the body works well the mind works well." Many books and my parents said the same thing. 
I am not planning to be a gymnast even though my dad was a gold medalist in gymnastics.

My main training is singing and I love acting. My vocal coach is an ex-opera singer. He is a very strict teacher. He is also very sweet. He doesn't hold back his words if I do something wrong. I started my training with him 4 months ago. He has taught me a lot. Oh, he lives in Paris, France. 
Thank you again, I am going to get ready to film.


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## arts (Jun 17, 2011)

Thank you for the private message @ComposerOfAvantGarde. 

I have read your comments and appreciate your time.
People give me different advice every day. Many of them are opposite from others. I have to take all into consideration and choose my path. 
Thank you very much.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Mine were not.

Martin
Curtain


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