# Why are contralto's rare in the opera?



## SongQuestion

I was reading some articles online about contraltos, and they stated that contraltos get really bad roles, and aren't really wanted today in opera singing, in addition to them being a rare voice type in general. 

I also read that contralto roles used to be more popular. What happened? If anyone is in the opera and has an inside on this, I would be curious to know.


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## Alfredoz

high notes tend to get more attention?


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## Ukko

Ferrier died, that's my take on it.


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## BaronScarpia

This is a topic I find particularly interesting. The contralto voice was often utilised by baroque composers in opera and oratorio, but its range was, I believe, closer to that of the modern mezzo-soprano than that of the so-called 'true contralto' (an example of which is Ewa Podleś). The term mezzo-soprano did not exist. Similarly, the term baritone was not really used until the mid-18th century; low male singers were basses, but their ranges could be anywhere from modern bass-baritone to baritenor. The basso profondo was not used (at least not in opera - some Italian renaissance composers did use them in choral music, but that's another story!).

I guess that, as opera developed, composers became more distinguishing about voice types. New categories were created. The mezzo-soprano took the place of the contralto, and the term contralto was used to describe a much lower range.

This^^ is simply a theory. Perhaps it is simply a matter of changing tastes - what really fascinates me is the 'English contralto'. Kathleen Ferrier, Dame Clara Butt, Muriel Foster, Astra Desmond and Helen Watts were all famous British contraltos with enormous, deep voices. Why is it that we have been blessed with such excellent low voices over here? Not that I'm complaining.


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## Dili

I think contraltos are actually my favourite voice type, and I was very heartbroken when my teacher told me in no uncertain terms that I am not one (I even remember trying to sing only chest voice for a couple of weeks). I think there are several reasons for their disappearance, and some are more subtle than others. 
First of all, just like mezzos, contraltos were given the "witches, old hags and bitches" roles in most operas, perhaps because of the dramatic quality of their voices. Youth, beauty and goodness are not immediately associated with low voice. You can see how a young girl with a naturally low voice would not feel tempted to start a career where she would never sing the lead part, or anything optimistic and romantic.
Second, I think there was a strong pull from other musical genres - jazz, blues, later r&b - for lower-voiced women. These new types of music were and are more widely consumed and popular and a lot of the naturally talented mezzos and contraltos made careers a lot quicker then they would have in opera.
Third, and this is a very tricky biological thing, the lower voices mature later in life. It is a very frustrating thing to be told you have talent, but you have to wait 10-15 years to make a career in opera. And if life doesn't wait, neither do landlords, energy companies and supermarkets with their bills.
And finally, I am sure there is something about taste that has influenced this trend, but it is not a straightforward reason in my opinion, but a part of a larger problem. Very simply put, opera has gone very stale in some ways. Singers become singers because their parents were singers, and they learn technique above anything else (not always a good technique). Fresh blood is rarely infused into music academies and in many cases people with mediocre talent are pushed into the business just because they have connections. 
This is my personal opinion of course, and you are free to take it with a grain of salt, or a whole spoon if you will. I love contraltos and I grieve for the fact that there are so few today. Here is one of my favourite blogs - http://www.contraltocorner.com/blog


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## Janno

In the churches a woman was not allowed to speak or sing. So composers of music for the churches used trained boy-voices (that's why boys choirs in churches still exist as a remebrance ofthe past). And the same reaseon did give us the countertenor and counteralto, as wel as the castrates. Gradually the churches allowed females to sing in the church (beginning with the reformation after Luther). And as it became difficult to find castrates (forbidden) and well trained male singers with high voices there parts, for the role of soprano and alto, were suungby females. Only after the renaissance of the baroque music, played in its original form on authentic instruments, e ew demand for male sopranos and altos arose. Being very specialised musicians, they do give us great music.


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## Bargee

Hi,
The true contralto voice is something marvellous to listen to. I'm lucky enough to be married to a dramatic contralto and when she sings it's like melted chocolate, dark, deep and rich. At the time of Clara Butt the tendency was to sing in 3 voices, high, middle and low with definite breaks whereas today the voice is more blended and easier to listen to. It doesn't hurt the ear drum either as a soprano does and usually the diction is more defined. Try listening to Eula Beale on youtube, a fantastic voice, you'll never go back to other voice types.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

Contraltos are rare because it's the most uncommon voice-type to have. True basses are relatively rare but not to the extent of contraltos. People often forget what these interesting voice-types are or sound like because of their relative scarcity and an unexplainable lack of interest in hearing them.


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## SixFootScowl

A female co-worker who is a mezzo-soprano and sings in local musical productions told me the following in a recent discussion on voice types:


> Women typically aim for the highest classification they can, meaning if you can sing to a high G, strained or not, you're going to call yourself a mezzo (actually, I know a few who can't sing above an E without trouble), but for a singer, every step down from a true soprano is a demotion...


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## Gaspard de la Nuit

Florestan said:


> A female co-worker who is a mezzo-soprano and sings in local musical productions told me the following in a recent discussion on voice types:


It's probably true, but what a silly premise.......sopranos are the most common female voice-type and contraltos are by far the rarest.....I guess if you're not a soprano or mezzo it greatly limits the repertoire you can sing, though I think a lot of contraltos do mezzo repertoire and vice-versa.


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## BalalaikaBoy

seriously? no one's posted clips yet?


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## Oboeverity

It's led to a dearth of contraltos singing in public, as altos tend to be trained as mezzos in the hope of bagging a role or an agent. A great shame, as we seem to be a dying breed.


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## BalalaikaBoy

Ukko said:


> Ferrier died, that's my take on it.


change Kathleen Ferrier to Karen Carpenter and you have the equivalent answer for pop music


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## Oboeverity

Florestan said:


> A female co-worker who is a mezzo-soprano and sings in local musical productions told me the following in a recent discussion on voice types:


I would say your co worker is in the minority. As an alto, I certainly don't see my voice type as a 'demotion'.


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## SixFootScowl

Oboeverity said:


> I would say your co worker is in the minority. As an alto, I certainly don't see my voice type as a 'demotion'.


Yeah, Altos are wonderful. Just look at Ewa Podles (albeit contra alto) beautiful singing:


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## Balthazar

I was just wondering the exact same thing while enjoying Patricia Bardon's star turn as Cornelia in the Giulio Cesare from Glyndebourne. Here's a clip of her from that production with Angelika Kirchschlager as Sesto.


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## William Sibree

Ferrier was the best. But try Quilin Zhang. I heard her for the first time at the Paris Opera as Erda. The voice is even deeper and richer; less supple and tender than Ferrier's, but extremely beautiful. A true contralto, not just a mezzo dressed up as one. I think Ludwig gets close, especially in the Alto Rhapsody, but the aren't the low harmonics at the top of the voice.
William


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## Woodduck

Bargee said:


> Hi,
> The true contralto voice is something marvellous to listen to. I'm lucky enough to be married to a dramatic contralto and when she sings it's like melted chocolate, dark, deep and rich. At the time of Clara Butt the tendency was to sing in 3 voices, high, middle and low with definite breaks whereas today the voice is more blended and easier to listen to. It doesn't hurt the ear drum either as a soprano does and usually the diction is more defined. Try listening to Eula Beale on youtube, a fantastic voice, you'll never go back to other voice types.


I can't thank you enough for bringing Eula Beal to my attention. This must be one of the greatest voices I've ever heard:






Here is some information about her:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eula_Beal


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## MsFelix5

My personal viewpoint is that there is no proper encouragement or training of the contralto voice. Mezzo Sopranos are cherished as having vocal weight, power, and range. Sopranos are prized for their range and for their high ringing notes. 

Contraltos have limitations, especially if they are untrained. But that's just my viewpoint. Not much popular or classical repertoire is written for contraltos and no one knows what to do with them. I mean just think about the whole discussion about who is and isn't a real contralto. I don't even know if I'm a contralto or a mezzo soprano. People keep telling me I'm a mezzo, but the reason I think they do this is because they assume contraltos are super rare. Perhaps they've never really heard an untrained contralto? I couldn't tell you...


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## MsFelix5

> This is a topic I find particularly interesting. The contralto voice was often utilised by baroque composers in opera and oratorio, but its range was, I believe, closer to that of the modern mezzo-soprano than that of the so-called 'true contralto' (an example of which is Ewa Podleś). The term mezzo-soprano did not exist. Similarly, the term baritone was not really used until the mid-18th century; low male singers were basses, but their ranges could be anywhere from modern bass-baritone to baritenor. The basso profondo was not used (at least not in opera - some Italian renaissance composers did use them in choral music, but that's another story!).


Contraltos did not exist either because women did not sing back then. The "contraltos' They wrote for were really male countertenors and castrato. This is not the same voice as a female contralto. It doesn't have the same timbre, vocal weight, tessitura.



> This^^ is simply a theory. Perhaps it is simply a matter of changing tastes - what really fascinates me is the 'English contralto'. Kathleen Ferrier, Dame Clara Butt, Muriel Foster, Astra Desmond and Helen Watts were all famous British contraltos with enormous, deep voices. Why is it that we have been blessed with such excellent low voices over here? Not that I'm complaining.


I often wonder if they were contraltos or simply mezzos who could hit lower notes. If you actually listen to Kathleen Ferrier, it sounds like someone tried to train her as a mezzo soprano or emphasize her higher range. She barely dips into the lower notes, unless she's singing opera.

I find that most opera pieces tend to write all over the place for lower voices. They're expected to sing down to G2 and up to A5, which is a wopping range for any normal person, let alone a lower voiced female.


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## BalalaikaBoy

MsFelix5 said:


> My personal viewpoint is that there is no proper encouragement or training of the contralto voice. Mezzo Sopranos are cherished as having vocal weight, power, and range. Sopranos are prized for their range and for their high ringing notes.
> 
> Contraltos have limitations, especially if they are untrained. But that's just my viewpoint. Not much popular or classical repertoire is written for contraltos and no one knows what to do with them. I mean just think about the whole discussion about who is and isn't a real contralto. I don't even know if I'm a contralto or a mezzo soprano. People keep telling me I'm a mezzo, but the reason I think they do this is because they assume contraltos are super rare. Perhaps they've never really heard an untrained contralto? I couldn't tell you...


there are plenty of people who would love to hear a rich, cavernous contralto voice, problem is, there just aren't very many of them


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## MoonlightSonata

MsFelix5 said:


> ...Not much popular or classical repertoire is written for contraltos and no one knows what to do with them...


Not much classical repertoire, maybe, but in popular music there seem to be more altos then sopranos.


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## Fotini

The truth is that theaters nowadays need singers who can sing more than one role and there aren't as many roles for contraltos (in the BIG selling Operas) as there are for Mezzo's.... So, if you are a contralto/dramatic mezzo you will probably find 8 jobs as a mezzo and 2 as a contralto...


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## Pat Fairlea

Interesting. My Other Half is a contralto (amateur, but better than she admits), and we have had a lot of difficulty finding good scores for her to sing with me incompetently accompanying. She has most of Ferrier's and Ella's repertoires under her belt, then that's about it. Our usual resort has been to Britten tenor arrangements intended for Pears' rather light voice. Either Herself sings down to lady-tenor or I try to transpose up a fourth.

And Ferrier singing 'O Waly, waly' is the one piece of music guaranteed to reduce me to tears.


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## BaritoneAssoluto

Kathleen Ferrier is a great example but I think people are missing the point that we have the legendary Ewa Podles as well. Ewa Podles is one of the few contraltos who has successfully found ground in both the Mezzo-Soprano repertory and the contralto/countertenor Baroque repertory. She excells in the lied/art song field as well. Any good contralto or dramatic Mezzo-Soprano should listen to her interpretation of Mahler's Urlicht and his Kindertotenlieder (and as an extra homework assignment, listen to her sing Mahler's 3rd Symphony and see if you're not moved to tears).


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## Pugg

BaritoneAssoluto said:


> Kathleen Ferrier is a great example but I think people are missing the point that we have the legendary Ewa Podles as well. Ewa Podles is one of the few contraltos who has successfully found ground in both the Mezzo-Soprano repertory and the contralto/countertenor Baroque repertory. She excels in the lied/art song field as well. Any good contralto or dramatic Mezzo-Soprano should listen to her interpretation of Mahler's Urlicht and his Kindertotenlieder (and as an extra homework assignment, listen to her sing Mahler's 3rd Symphony and see if you're not moved to tears).


I do like Tancredi and Rossini: Arias For Contralto on Naxos very much.


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