# Who is the Greatest Wotan of All Time?



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

We've discussed this a bit in recent days so I've decided to bring back an old thread topic, but this time include a poll! Who you got?

Post videos of your favorites even if not listed!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Vocally, maybe Friedrich Schorr. Dramatically, maybe Hans Hotter. But who knows, really? I'm always surprised by new discoveries of great singers/artists from the past. Many singers in the early days didn't make recordings, or could make them only in old age. The recordings were poor-sounding and the process of making them awkward and constraining.

Wagner's first Parsifal, Hermann Winkelmann, made recordings twenty-some years later and sounds pretty awful, but he must have been good in 1882 or Wagner wouldn't have chosen him. We can only guess what Franz Betz, Wagner's choice for both Wotan and Hans Sachs, was like, but he was evidently the leading Sachs of his time and was said to be still "flawless" in his fifties.

I chose Schorr in the poll on the strength of recordings he made, in his prime in the 1920s, of excerpts from both Sachs and Wotan. The man's voice was a human organ stop, and he was clearly a superior artist as well.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Schorr and Hotter both sounded incredible. I have a deep love for McIntyre - there are more powerful voices out there but his Wotan is so human and vulnerable, he made me cry. And Tomlinson combines raw power with beautiful singing.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I can't decide between Schorr and Tomlinson and I'm glad they've been mentioned as I thought that Hotter would be on everyone's lips. I would need to listen to their recordings to compare and decide. (Although that wouldn't be a fair comparison as the Wotan I have of Schorr was made when he was past his best and Tomlinson was in his prime for the Barenboim Ring.)

N.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> *Vocally, maybe Friedrich Schorr. Dramatically, maybe Hans Hotter*. But who knows, really? I'm always surprised by new discoveries of great singers/artists from the past. Many singers in the early days didn't make recordings, or could make them only in old age. The recordings were poor-sounding and the process of making them awkward and constraining.


That just about sums it up for me, to hear Schorr at his absolute best we are fortunate to have the famous HMV 1926-32 potted ring using the new "electrical" recording technology (microphones, amps etc) recorded extended ring segments at multiple venues over several year period.......later 1935-41 we have a few MET wagner radio broadcasts with Schorr, there is much to admire and learn from this great artist!

The latest remaster by Obert-Thorn and Pristine XR brings potted ring to life like never before.......
Anything before that is short samples made with acoustic recording tech










*I vote for Hotter as best wotan/wanderer even if I do concede Schorr was vocally more solid*, Hotter fortunately had far better sound quality during iconic 1950s Bayreuth festivals, and his ability to emotionally bring the complex and conflicted wotan to life, always making the character sympathetic and dramatically challenging, the depth and nuance of his performance has never been surpassed for me..........all that followed are in his shadow


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> That just about sums it up for me, to hear Schorr at his absolute best we are fortunate to have the famous HMV 1926-32 potted ring using the new "electrical" recording technology (microphones, amps etc) recorded extended ring segments at multiple venues over several year period.......later 1935-41 we have a few MET wagner radio broadcasts with Schorr, there is much to admire and learn from this great artist!
> 
> The latest remaster by Obert-Thorn and Pristine XR brings potted ring to life like never before.......
> Anything before that is short samples made with acoustic recording tech
> ...


Agree 100%. Another thing that I think is sometimes overlooked when discussing Hotter & Schorr is the stature & majesty Hotter brought to the role on stage. Schorr was hardly Godlike in appearance while Hotter was striking on stage according to accounts I've read & people I've met who heard him live. I think that should give Hotter a clear edge over Schorr. The impact of the character on stage should count for a lot imo...


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Bonetan said:


> Agree 100%. Another thing that I think is sometimes overlooked when discussing Hotter & Schorr is the stature & majesty Hotter brought to the role on stage. Schorr was hardly Godlike in appearance while Hotter was striking on stage according to accounts I've read & people I've met who heard him live. I think that should give Hotter a clear edge over Schorr. The impact of the character on stage should count for a lot imo...


Bonetan we expect no less that Hotter adoration with your HH avatar photo 

But you are right the highly modern stylized appearance of HH in 1950s Bayreuth and his tall stature made him look godlike carved from granite......


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> Bonetan we expect no less that Hotter adoration with your HH avatar photo
> 
> But you are right the highly modern stylized appearance of HH in 1950s Bayreuth and his tall stature made him look godlike carved from granite......


Haha guilty as charged! Hotter is not my favorite Wotan voice, that would be Tomlinson, but when I think about all the things that make a great Wotan I don't believe any other singer brings the complete package like Hotter


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Hotter gets my vote, but there is almost nothing more glorious than James Morris's final note in the Magic Fire Music on Levine's recording. He's the only thing I listen to on the Levine recording.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

gellio said:


> Hotter gets my vote, but there is almost nothing more glorious than James Morris's final note in the Magic Fire Music on Levine's recording. He's the only thing I listen to on the Levine recording.


Morris at least had the voice for the part, which is a lot more than I can say for most of those who've assumed the role since.

I saw Morris at the Met in 1993, and the ease with which he sang the music and filled the house with sound was pretty remarkable. Unfortunately, he was not a particularly good actor, and despite being coached by Hotter in the role, his interpretation was pretty generalized. That's also the biggest problem with virtually all of the current singers of the role - some of them have enough voice for the music, but those that do make nothing of the text. And others, like Terfel, who do attempt to make interpretive points, do so with voices that really don't fill out the music.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> Morris at least had the voice for the part, which is a lot more than I can say for most of those who've assumed the role since.
> 
> I saw Morris at the Met in 1993, and the ease with which he sang the music and filled the house with sound was pretty remarkable. Unfortunately, he was not a particularly good actor, and despite being coached by Hotter in the role, his interpretation was pretty generalized. That's also the biggest problem with virtually all of the current singers of the role - some of them have enough voice for the music, but those that do make nothing of the text. And others, like Terfel, who do attempt to make interpretive points, do so with voices that really don't fill out the music.


Did you ever get to hear Tomlinson's Wotan live?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Did you ever get to hear Tomlinson's Wotan live?


No, and I've never heard him live in anything. He only sang a handful of RING performances at the Met, and was cast as Fafner and Hunding, not Wotan.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> Morris at least had the voice for the part, which is a lot more than I can say for most of those who've assumed the role since.
> 
> I saw Morris at the Met in 1993, and the ease with which he sang the music and filled the house with sound was pretty remarkable. Unfortunately, he was not a particularly good actor, and despite being coached by Hotter in the role, his interpretation was pretty generalized. That's also the biggest problem with virtually all of the current singers of the role - some of them have enough voice for the music, but those that do make nothing of the text. And others, like Terfel, who do attempt to make interpretive points, do so with voices that really don't fill out the music.


Where do you rank Morris historically? This question is for everyone else too. Just how good was he?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Where do you rank Morris historically? This question is for everyone else too. Just how good was he?


That's a hard question to answer, since I saw and heard Morris live, and didn't see or hear Schorr or Hotter. Actually, the only other live Wotan I've seen is Terfel; I'll get to see Volle in a couple of weeks.

That said, even given his limitations as an actor and interpreter, I have to rank Morris pretty high simply on the basis of his vocal endowment - probably just below Hotter and Schorr, along with Wotans like Nissen and Bockelmann. Tomlinson would probably fall into this group too, but I have to spend a little more time listening to him - I haven't listened to the Barenboim RING in quite a few years.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

I just finished watching the Barenboim/Kupfer _Ring_ and Tomlinson's comments re/ the production. God in Heaven help me: Tomlinson also has a GORGEOUS speaking voice! Melt.

In case you don't own that Ring Cycle or have never heard Tomlinson and Barenboim's comments, I wanted you to know that Tomlinson mentions that he performed the role of Wotan in that production from 86 (rehearsals)-92 and then further into the 90's in Berlin. So, if you want to hear the opinion of his performance by someone who was in the audience that's the time period you should be searching. I will certainly keep your interest in mind as I do my searching on the internet.

If you haven't seen Barenboim's and Tomlinson's brief comments, let me know when you will be online and I will record and upload that part of the DVD for a few hours.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> I just finished watching the Barenboim/Kupfer _Ring_ and Tomlinson's comments re/ the production. God in Heaven help me: Tomlinson also has a GORGEOUS speaking voice! Melt.
> 
> In case you don't own that Ring Cycle or have never heard Tomlinson and Barenboim's comments, I wanted you to know that Tomlinson mentions that he performed the role of Wotan in that production from 86 (rehearsals)-92 and then further into the 90's in Berlin. So, if you want to hear the opinion of his performance by someone who was in the audience that's the time period you should be searching. I will certainly keep your interest in mind as I do my searching on the internet.
> 
> If you haven't seen Barenboim's and Tomlinson's brief comments, let me know when you will be online and I will record and upload that part of the DVD for a few hours.


Is this aimed at me? If so, yes, I do own the Barenboim/Tomlinson Ring on Blu-Ray!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

wkasimer said:


> That said, even given his limitations as an actor and interpreter, I have to rank Morris pretty high simply on the basis of his vocal endowment - probably just below Hotter and Schorr, along with Wotans like Nissen and Bockelmann. Tomlinson would probably fall into this group too, but I have to spend a little more time listening to him - I haven't listened to the Barenboim RING in quite a few years.,


I listened to Wotan's big Act 2 monologue with Tomlinson today. Although he's certainly a more interesting singer than Morris, the latter is far better vocally. Morris' tone is a lot more attractive, and his upper range is vastly more secure, where Tomlinson seems to be emitting pitched shouts.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Just for the h*** of it I am going to throw in a vote for Norman Bailey. I was reading a review of the Goodall _Siegfried_ in which Bailey was compared on a par with Hotter. I don't have the technical knowledge to know if there is anything to it but I do like what he does there, also with Hans Sachs, so as I said, what the h***


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Becca said:


> Just for the h*** of it I am going to throw in a vote for Norman Bailey. I was reading a review of the Goodall _Siegfried_ in which Bailey was compared on a par with Hotter. I don't have the technical knowledge to know if there is anything to it but I do like what he does there, also with Hans Sachs, so as I said, what the h***


A lot of people, including me, tend to forget about Bailey because he recorded the role in English, but he's one of my favorite Wotans on complete recordings - and probably my favorite complete Sachs. It's a shame that Decca didn't provide a better cast around him.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> I listened to Wotan's big Act 2 monologue with Tomlinson today. Although he's certainly a more interesting singer than Morris, the latter is far better vocally. Morris' tone is a lot more attractive, and his upper range is vastly more secure, where Tomlinson seems to be emitting pitched shouts.


Interesting! I've always found Tomlinson's voice much more attractive than Morris'. I find Tomlinson to have the most godlike voice of them all & I never liked the way Morris scooped & slid into some high notes. BUT I probably overlook Tomlinson's shortcomings & nitpick Morris' because I so much prefer Tomlinson's voice...


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Interesting! I've always found Tomlinson's voice much more attractive than Morris'. I find Tomlinson to have the most godlike voice of them all & I never liked the way Morris scooped & slid into some high notes. BUT I probably overlook Tomlinson's shortcomings & nitpick Morris' because I so much prefer Tomlinson's voice...


Morris did a lot of that scooping and sliding on the recordings. To be honest, it was a lot less of a problem in live performance, at least from where I was sitting.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Another vote for Hotter but I prefer London’s voice 

Interestingly they are also two of my favorite lieder singers


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Does anyone know what lead to Schorr losing his high notes? Did this happen around 1933? How secure were his high notes before then?

I've been listening to the 1937 Siegfried with Melchior & I can't believe how Schorr completely ducks out of almost any note above an E. Sometimes he doesn't even make an attempt! Could a modern singer get away with this? 

I think I'm going to have to purchase The Potted Ring to truly appreciate this fine artist...


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Does anyone know what lead to Schorr losing his high notes? Did this happen around 1933? How secure were his high notes before then?


He probably lost them for the same reason a lot of singers lose them - too much singing of heavy repertoire. They were better earlier in his career, but high notes were never really a major part of his vocal arsenal. The Siegfried Wanderer/Wotan lies a bit higher than the other Wotans, and a number of successful Wotans in Rheingold and Walkure struggle when singing the Wanderer.

Preiser has a disc or two of his pre-1930 recordings, but the Potted Ring is probably the best way to hear his Wotan. Likewise, his two live Met Meistersingers find him in late form, but the fairly extensive excerpts that he recorded between about 1927 and 1932 are glorious.


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

After many attempts, it was Hans Hotter that finally drew me into Der Ring des Nibelungen. Knappertsbusch 1956 Wotan's Abschied. Everything about that performance knocked my socks off. He has such a unique timbre to his voice- it truly is in a league of its own, IMO.


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