# Which Composers Have Interesting "Late Period"?



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

...except for Beethoven. Of course "late Beethoven" is something I would expect to pop up in most of the answers.

The late period doesn't imply composing at old age, but the emergence of a new style or direction that the composer seemed to embrace before he died.

I am thinking of:

1) *Brahms:* he retired in 1890 (57 years old). Thanks to the great clarinetist Richard Mühlfeld, he returned to the scene and gave us some of his most remarkable statements: 2 clarinet sonatas, 1 clarinet trio, 1 clarinet quintet, 4 sets of _klavierstucke_, Four Serious Songs and a set of choral preludes for organ. His writings at this time had become more distilled, introspective (even according to Brahms' own standard), and extremely refined in counterpoint and lyricism. Had he not been claimed by liver cancer, he would have produced even more intimate, autumnal masterpieces of chamber music.

2) *Verdi*: he was thinking about retirement around 1875 or so. But thanks to Ricordi, Boito, and friends, he returned with his greatest masterpieces, _Otello_ and _Falstaff_. There is a drastic change in his "late" style: the abandon of stand-alone arias, the seamless flow of actions and a tint of influence from Mr. Wagner. The _Quattro Pezzi Sacri_ (Four Sacred Pieces) also contains some interesting harmonic inventions.

3) *Schumann*: "late Schumann" (post-1850s) works are often overlooked because people tend to think that his growing insanity affects the quality of the music. Recently, there seems to be increased interests in his late pieces, which some think of as pointing towards Mahler and Debussy. There are certain "strange things" about the_"Gesänge der Frühe"_ that Clara didn't even want to perform the cycle in public.

Who else do you think to have an interesting late period?


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Liszt's late period was very interesting. He moved away from the virtuosic style of his middle-period piano works, and started exploring a more minimalist, impressionistic sound. His late works have a spiritual, introverted character which reflects his more secluded lifestyle during that phase of his life.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Liszt is a very fine example indeed. Love his late works such as the consolations or Zelle im Nonnenwerth. 

In my opinion Saint-Saëns is also a composer who has an interesting late period. While his composition style was fully developed even in his youth his late works are strinking examples of a major composer thining his style. Especially his chamber music benefits from this best seen in his famous tryptich of the woodwind sonatas. There is also the rather introspective La muse et la poet, string quartet No.1 & 2, Fantasy for Harp and Violin, Priere and Odelette for Flute.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Speaking of prime example for great late period. Mozarts late period is the only one i'm remotely interested in and acknoledge as being interesting and worthy to stand along Bach and Beethoven.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Beethoven (obviously)
Stravinsky (his best) 
Xenakis
Ligeti
Schoenberg (to a lesser extent)


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Schubert's actually rivalled Beethoven's. Bach and Mozart's late periods are extra-extraordinary as well. Just a few obvious ones IMO. Most great Classical composers seem to get better the older/more experienced they become.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Anankasmo said:


> Speaking of prime example for a great late period. Mozarts late period is the only one I'm remotely interested in and acknowledge as being interesting and worthy to stand along Bach and Beethoven.


Looking at Mozart's "late works", there seemed to be some emerging interests in fusing his classicism with Bachian/Handelian fugal writings, plus a tasteful flavor of early romanticism. He would have been unbeatable if he had been given 5 more years to accomplish hist quest  .


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Anankasmo said:


> Liszt is a very fine example indeed. Love his late works such as the consolations or* Zelle im Nonnenwerth*.
> 
> In my opinion Saint-Saëns is also a composer who has an interesting late period. While his composition style was fully developed even in his youth his late works are strinking examples of a major composer thining his style. Especially his chamber music benefits from this best seen in his famous tryptich of the woodwind sonatas. There is also the rather introspective La muse et la poet, string quartet No.1 & 2, Fantasy for Harp and Violin, Priere and Odelette for Flute.


Oh wow, thanks for the recommendation. I heard some Faure here!






*More for late Liszt please!*


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## MissKittysMom (Mar 2, 2017)

Shostakovich. Beginning in the late 1950s, he had increasing problems with paralysis in his right hand, which led to more open and spare orchestration, and more works for chamber ensembles. From the mid-1960s on, he seemed more free from political constraints, as well as burdened by other health issues, including his first heart attack in 1965. But this period saw both a tremendous output, as well as changes in style, with increasing darkness and embracing tone rows. In his last ten years, five quartets, two symphonies, two concertos (violin 2 and cello 2), sonatas for violin and viola, as well as numerous song cycles, including the Michelangelo cycle.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

That is true probably. Unfortunately he died too soon.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Glad you like it it is so mysterious. Also rather "easy to play" considering Liszt wrote it


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

silentio said:


> Oh wow, thanks for the recommendation. I heard some Faure here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Check out Liszt's Nuage Gris, En reve: Nocturne, La lugubre gondola, among others. Here imo Liszt reaches Copin's level of composition (actually i like Liszt more) and shows the way ahead way into the 20th century (novel harmonies and piano effects such as in his jeux - like Ravels Ondine, etc.)


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

Are all you Straussians going to leave it up to me to mention Richard ? He was born in 1864 and was still composing in his late 70s and his 80s:

Wikipedia tells me that the well-regarded works of his late period include:

Horn Concerto No. 2, 
Metamorphosen, 
his Oboe Concerto

And, of course, the immensely popular and well regarded "The Four Last Songs" was composed after WWII.

Duh, I misunderstood the question. Never mind.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

No one has mentioned Joseph Haydn his later works are different from his start.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Debussy's late period is also worth mentioning in this thread. He seems to have been moving away from Impressionism toward a Neo-classical/Neo-baroque aesthetic, with an increased emphasis on counterpoint and motivic development. Of course, this wasn't completely new for him: he had always admired the elegance and clarity of French Baroque music (as indicated in many of his essays on music criticism). However, his 18th-century interests seem to have become more intense in his late period, as expressed in works such as the Cello Sonata and his Violin Sonata. In fact, he was planning to write some overtly Baroque-style sonatas involving the harpsichord, but he didn't live to complete them.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Ralph Vaughan Williams - his last 6 years (1953-58) produced some fascinating and original works - the 7th, 8th & 9th symphonies, Hodie, the Blake and Shakespeare song settings.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm on a phone (so no long explanations), but...

WHERE'S SCHNITTKE?!


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I guess Penderecki has had an interesting late period, though opinions are pretty divided on it. I like some of his later neo-Romantic works, but it is a pretty surprising direction after what he was doing in the 60s.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

*OP here: Thanks guys for chipping in!*

I would appreciate if you can also nominate specific compositions do you think best illustrate the late period you mentioned.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

silentio said:


> *OP here: Thanks guys for chipping in!*
> 
> I would appreciate if you can also nominate specific compositions do you think best illustrate the late period you mentioned.


Haydn the London Symphonies.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Haydn the London Symphonies.


Also, The Creation. Strongly influenced by his late-period trips to London. Its grand Handelian style is very much in the tradition of English choral music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Also, the Haydn Late Masses-glorious tributes to God. Mostly major keys and extroverted.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Also, the Haydn Late Masses-glorious tributes to God. Mostly major keys and extroverted.


Yes, those are wonderful works and a very good addition to this thread. It's interesting how Haydn became even more joyful and exuberant in his late music, whereas many composers (Beethoven, Liszt, Debussy) seem to write more solemn and introverted music in their last years.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

Bettina said:


> Yes, those are wonderful works and a very good addition to this thread. It's interesting how Haydn became even more joyful and exuberant in his late music, whereas many composers (Beethoven, Liszt, Debussy) seem to write more solemn and introverted music in their last years.


Symphonies and 93 and 94 are both great and have humor in them.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Debussy's late period is also worth mentioning in this thread. He seems to have been moving away from Impressionism toward a Neo-classical/Neo-baroque aesthetic, with an increased emphasis on counterpoint and motivic development. Of course, this wasn't completely new for him: he had always admired the elegance and clarity of French Baroque music (as indicated in many of his essays on music criticism). However, his 18th-century interests seem to have become more intense in his late period, as expressed in works such as the Cello Sonata and his Violin Sonata. In fact, he was planning to write some overtly Baroque-style sonatas involving the harpsichord, but he didn't live to complete them.


The Piano Etudes too from 1915, a few years before the violin sonata.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Without his late period Schubert wouldn't be Schubert.
Without his late period Beethoven would be half Beethoven.
Without his late period Mozart would always be Mozart.
Without his late period Bach would have left humanity incomplete.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Becca said:


> Ralph Vaughan Williams - his last 6 years (1953-58) produced some fascinating and original works - the 7th, 8th & 9th symphonies, Hodie, the Blake and Shakespeare song settings.


The Ninth is an absolute gem. The composer died on the morning he was to have attended its recording for Decca with Boult and the LPO. Typically, Decca, having recorded the previous eight under the composer's supervision, lost interest when the old boy died and the work was issued on the American Everest label. I loved that LP.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

I think Bartok's late period is interesting for contrary reasons. I can't find any Bartok work after 1938 (besides the 6th quartet) that I actually like. This is odd, because otherwise I'm a fanboy for anything Bartok!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Janáček definitely - he seemed to be mooching along comfortably as a respected teacher and second-tier composer until the last twenty or so years of his life when he produced a stunning body of work which rendered into insignificance the vast majority of what he wrote prior to that (_Jenůfa_ and some of the choral works such as _Elegie na smrt dcery Olgy_ excepted).


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Massenet. His most famous works (_Manon_, _Werther_, _Thaïs_) are all in the early part of his career, but the operas he wrote in the last dozen years of his life, after 1900, are his most interesting works. He tried to do something different with each opera - fairy tales, mediaeval mystery plays, Greek myth, Mozartean pastiche, Classical tragedy. Many of them are at least the equal of his most famous works.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> I guess Penderecki has had an interesting late period, though opinions are pretty divided on it. I like some of his later neo-Romantic works, but it is a pretty surprising direction after what he was doing in the 60s.


Wasn't it the same with Pärt and Gorecki? Started out very dissonant and then mellowed into spirituality?



elgars ghost said:


> Janáček definitely - he seemed to be mooching along comfortably as a respected teacher and second-tier composer until the last twenty or so years of his life when he produced a stunning body of work which rendered into insignificance the vast majority of what he wrote prior to that (_Jenůfa_ and some of the choral works such as _Elegie na smrt dcery Olgy_ excepted).


Indeed; I have been discovering some of his work lately, and it's all amazing stuff.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Does anyone think that Xenakis had an interesting late period? Or Mozart? Or Bartok? Or Stockhausen? Or Schumann? These are all composers whose late period represents a change which is challenging, so it would be nice if someone would help me rise to the challenge. 

One composer who in my opinion had the most wonderful late period is Froberger, really because of the late Suites. Glen Wilson released a set of all the suites in chronological order last year and I thought it was a revelation.

Also Dufay, Shostakovich and J S Bach.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Haydn: The Creation, The Seasons, the London Symphonies, op.76 quartets etc etc. Brilliant.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

I would say that John Adams is currently in his late style, as most of his major works from about _Death of Klinghoffer_ onward have fairly little to do with minimalism.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

David Phillips said:


> The Ninth is an absolute gem. The composer died on the morning he was to have attended its recording for Decca with Boult and the LPO. Typically, Decca, having recorded the previous eight under the composer's supervision, lost interest when the old boy died and the work was issued on the American Everest label. I loved that LP.


The 8th was done by the US Mercury team shortly after the world premiere with Barbirolli and the Halle with RVW present to 'supervise'.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

David Phillips said:


> The Ninth is an absolute gem. The composer died on the morning he was to have attended its recording for Decca with Boult and the LPO. Typically, Decca, having recorded the previous eight under the composer's supervision, lost interest when the old boy died and the work was issued on the American Everest label. I loved that LP.


The story goes that Ursula telephoned the studio and politely apologised "I'm afraid we won't be able to attend the recording as Ralph has just died". A poet and librettist, she had a way with words.
And I agree with others that VW's late period produced some remarkable works.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Roberto Gerhard (his most detailed & impressive music was written during the last decade of his life - the 1960s).
[I can say the same about Jon Leifs as well as Benjamin Frankel & Luigi Dallapiccola, too]

Also:
Ernst Krenek
Martinu (I like his 1950s music the most)
Andre Caplet


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Surprised nobody has mentioned Rachmaninoff, who had a clearly demarcated late period. While living in Russia he composed and published regularly up to the Op39 Etudes in 1916. Then a gap of around 10 years with nothing composed other than a few piano transcriptions. Then in 1926 came Op40, his 4th Piano concerto, followed by Opp 41-5 namely Three Russian Songs, Corelli Variations, Paganini Rhapsody, 3rd Symphony and Symphonic Dances. That's not a bad late period!


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