# Boulez composing "Godot"?



## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

There has been a lot of stir about the internet lately. Here's the initial fuse, from a review from Machart on a Verdi opera (what???):

"...the sound thus obtained had a 'spatialized' richness, which, without requiring any electronic aid, could be of interest to Pierre Boulez for the opera that, according to our sources, he will adapt from Beckett's Waiting for Godot, planned for La Scala in Milan in 2015."

There's some additional meat for this as well; there was an interview in which Boulez himself says it's definitely an idea. Also, he has said that he will stop conducting until 2014, the year before his projected opera premieres:

"Time is valuable too and it is impossible to really compose while traveling from concert to concert," he said. "I would have 10 minutes here, an hour there. I need time, and in order to get it there is only one way - simply to refuse to conduct. I tell everyone who asks that I will return to conducting in the 2014-2015 season, and not before."

So what do all of you think? I'm not getting my hopes up, but Boulez has been thinking about writing an opera for a few decades now (all of his ideas were preempted by someone else using the same idea for their own opera). The only thing I could think to be in the way (apart from Boulez approaching 90, but then again Carter certainly isn't slowing down) is that Beckett's family is really infamous for keeping his work from being used for other purposes than the original one. We'll see, though. If nothing else, Boulez's sheer force of will is one hell of a force to be reckoned with.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

2015? Boulez will die before he does it.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Almaviva said:


> 2015? Boulez will die before he does it.


Hey, Carter is over 100 and Boulez is still going almost as strongly as he was 30 years ago. If he actually gets it over with, he can get it done (the only actual doubt in the composition process that I can think of is that the last major work he actually composed originally was "Repons," and that was back in the '80s.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I can't say I have high expectations. I just read an interview with Boulez, and he was so negative across the board; he's upset at just about everything in the field of opera and nobody seems to be good enough for him. He also seemed to be against any kind of beautiful melody in opera. He came accross as a bitter old man.

About writing his own, here is what he said when the journalist asked "you were going to write an opera yourself?"

"Yes, with Jean Genet. I began with Genet and with Heiner Muller. Both died in the process. Not that I killed them, but if I ask for a third one, maybe he'll die also."

This was a recent interview (no complete date, but it says 2010).


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I found that interview. The little prologue said Boulez was 83 at the time, so it must have been from around 2008. I don't think it sounded bitter; it sounded like typical Boulez, saying what he thinks, and since he was talking about opera he talked about opera the way he saw it. And by the way he did say in it that he loved music theater.

As for melody, he said you can't think of opera as just melody, which is just plain true, especially in contemporary (post-Wagnerian) opera where we can have choice as to whether something can be just purely melodic for the sake of being melodic or have the singer have something that is actually relevant to the music; surely Boulez would choose the latter (and so would I).

Whatever the case, I wouldn't get too skeptical. He also said that he still had the material from the Muller collaboration, and was still interested in opera. He just doesn't care for the conventions that are too deeply cherished among opera composers.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

World Violist said:


> I found that interview. The little prologue said Boulez was 83 at the time, so it must have been from around 2008. I don't think it sounded bitter; it sounded like typical Boulez, saying what he thinks, and since he was talking about opera he talked about opera the way he saw it. And by the way he did say in it that he loved music theater.
> 
> As for melody, he said you can't think of opera as just melody, which is just plain true, especially in contemporary (post-Wagnerian) opera where we can have choice as to whether something can be just purely melodic for the sake of being melodic or have the singer have something that is actually relevant to the music; surely Boulez would choose the latter (and so would I).
> 
> Whatever the case, I wouldn't get too skeptical. He also said that he still had the material from the Muller collaboration, and was still interested in opera. He just doesn't care for the conventions that are too deeply cherished among opera composers.


You're right, it says he was 83, he was born in 1925, so, 2008. Maybe in the last two years he got closer to the project. So, let's see.

I guess my objection is that Boulez seemed to throw **** at everything that preceded Modernism... he didn't strike me as someone who praises the great operatic traditions, which is strange for a musician of his stature. Very dogmatic and with some extreme opinions. Anyway, he certainly is a straight shooter and says what he thinks, he's not out to please anybody, which is fine given everything that he has accomplished.

I'm finishing The Cunning Little Vixen, I like it quite a lot. This is a very interesting opera with the deep contrast between the lush, sensual animal kingdom and the naturality of their approach to life and death, and the bitter human world with people constantly lamenting lost love and old age. The orchestration is quite efficient, and very precisely tied up to the action. Beautiful, I need to get the other Janaceks. What an ending! The gamekeeper's ode of love to nature is very striking. And the frog demonstrates to him the cycle of life... "It wasn't me... it was my grandad... they told me everything about you." Wow!


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

If you want to get the other Janacek operas, Boulez did a video of From the House of the Dead with Chereau directing that's said to be one of the best opera videos ever made. 

Yes, Boulez has strong opinions, but he's not out to get the pre-modern composers, he's just out to promote the modern ones. History has its place, but it's not in the place of the composers of today.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Godot! Well at least the plot will be easier to follow than some of those ridiculous baroque ones:
Act 1 - Guys wait aimlessly. Another guy turns up then leaves.
Act 2 - Guys still waiting. Same guy (now blind, most exciting plot development of play) turns up then leaves.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

mamascarlatti said:


> Godot! Well at least the plot will be easier to follow than some of those ridiculous baroque ones:
> Act 1 - Guys wait aimlessly. Another guy turns up then leaves.
> Act 2 - Guys still waiting. Same guy (now blind, most exciting plot development of play) turns up then leaves.


I think it would be a fascinating opera by Boulez. Pregnant pauses and simple dialogue, etc. It would be an interesting idea.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Godot! Well at least the plot will be easier to follow than some of those ridiculous baroque ones:
> Act 1 - Guys wait aimlessly. Another guy turns up then leaves.
> Act 2 - Guys still waiting. Same guy (now blind, most exciting plot development of play) turns up then leaves.


I like the play. It has this nihilistic quality of an aimless wait on a bleak landscape, this profound despair. I think it is very impactful.
In my opinion it can provide good material for an opera.
Look at the immense praise _L'Amour de Loin _has been getting, and it's an equally empty plot.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I think music could put an interesting philosophical cast on this play. There's a lot to think about, why some things are happening, why some things aren't happening, what is Godot, etc. However, what's kinda doubtful about it is how it can make the play into a new artistic statement. If there's one thing I know about Boulez, it's that he won't do anything superficial or redundant in any way. If he can't do anything with the play, he won't make an opera out of it. It'll be interesting to see what happens if he actually goes through with it.


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

thread-revival. Can I just say that If Boulez' Godot pans out I will SWIM to Europe. I think the composer-material match is divine. I actually love Boulez as a thinker (about opera), his Wagner essays (in the booklets for the CD's of his Ring I believe) are some of my favorite writings of all that i know about music-intellectualization (and of all the dramatic arts, as well). And I so rarely get behind anything that can be seen as "counter-romantic", and yet he's one of my favorite 20th century composers, and my favorite Ring interpreter.

But anyway, bottom line, I treasure so much the very thought of Boulez' Godot. The effective concept of transcendent nothingness that Beckett nailed down so infallibly is BEGGING for Boulez musicalities. The way he thinks of notes, structure, motive development, time. for all that to be married with Beckett's theatric, narrative, intellectual, universal principles and such... I can't even sit still when I think about it!


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I think he will do it, Mr. AmericanGesamtkunstwerk. The premiere is scheduled in London, during the Fall of 2013.


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## ooopera (Jul 27, 2011)

schigolch said:


> I think he will do it, Mr. AmericanGesamtkunstwerk. The premiere is scheduled in London, during the Fall of 2013.


AmericanGesamtkunstwerk, why didn't you vote for London?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

People often forget that _Waiting for Godot_ has a great deal of humor--as brought out in the U.S. premiere with Bert Lahr (_The Wizard of Oz_'s Cowardly Lion) and Tom Ewell (_The Seven Year Itch_), or the Lincoln Center revival with Robin Williams and Steve Martin, or the more recent Broadway staging with Nathan Lane and Bill Irwin.

It will be interesting to see if Boulez can capture this aspect of the play.


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

schigolch said:


> I think he will do it, Mr. AmericanGesamtkunstwerk. The premiere is scheduled in London, during the Fall of 2013.


I can't find anything about that looking on the internet, but i'll trust you. That's awesome. I'm really glad. (an earlier report said 2015 La Scala).

@oopera hahahhaha oooooh what an idea. Man I wish i could just assume that I'll be able to skip tons of classes and lose tons of money when its this far down the line... I'm too young for this hobby!


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

amfortas said:


> People often forget that _Waiting for Godot_ has a great deal of humor--as brought out in the U.S. premiere with Bert Lahr (_The Wizard of Oz_'s Cowardly Lion) and Tom Ewell (_The Seven Year Itch_), or the Lincoln Center revival with Robin Williams and Steve Martin, or the more recent Broadway staging with Nathan Lane and Bill Irwin.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Boulez can capture this aspect of the play.


That's an interesting thought, but I think its one that only applies to certain interpretations. The question is, will Boulez go for this interpretation? I happen to think that he will somehow make it so that it may functions on that level, but it doesn't have to be there. It would be up to each production...


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

It was just a joke, my friend. 

My honest opinion is he will never really finish this opera.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

AmericanGesamtkunstwerk said:


> That's an interesting thought, but I think its one that only applies to certain interpretations. The question is, will Boulez go for this interpretation? I happen to think that he will somehow make it so that it may functions on that level, but it doesn't have to be there. It would be up to each production...


Throughout his career, Beckett was as influenced by music hall vaudevillians and silent screen comedians as he was by existential philosophers (he even insisted on the casting of Buster Keaton in a short film he wrote). Certainly the humor in Godot productions can vary (from sardonic grimness to broad slapstick), but I think a humorless production misses something essential.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

It's futile to expect Boulez to write an opera, that is if he ever comes out with one,
to sound like La Boheme or Madama Butterfly, or La Traviata. You don't expect Picasso
to paint the same way as Goya. 
Actually, the music of Boulez which I've heard isn't really harshly dissonant at all,but
in fact, rather sensuous in its own cerebral way. It's quite listenable if you give it repeated hearings.


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## Evelina (Sep 30, 2011)

superhorn said:


> It's futile to expect Boulez to write an opera, that is if he ever comes out with one,
> to sound like La Boheme or Madama Butterfly, or La Traviata. You don't expect Picasso
> to paint the same way as Goya.
> Actually, the music of Boulez which I've heard isn't really harshly dissonant at all,but
> in fact, rather sensuous in its own cerebral way. It's quite listenable if you give it repeated hearings.


Yes! And given his style, I think if he's going to write an opera, Godot is a perfect fit for him, of all composers.

But maybe it's a big joke (started by Barenboim??). Maybe waiting for the opera really is like waiting for Godot... and waiting...


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Evelina said:


> But maybe it's a big joke (started by Barenboim??). Maybe waiting for the opera really is like waiting for Godot... and waiting...


I love it. Waiting for Boulez.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

amfortas said:


> People often forget that _Waiting for Godot_ has a great deal of humor--as brought out in the U.S. premiere with Bert Lahr (_The Wizard of Oz_'s Cowardly Lion) and Tom Ewell (_The Seven Year Itch_), or the Lincoln Center revival with Robin Williams and Steve Martin, or the more recent Broadway staging with Nathan Lane and Bill Irwin.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if Boulez can capture this aspect of the play.


A lot of Beckett's plays are rather funny in all their absurdity. Maybe not Play, but I found Endgame very entertaining, as well as profoundly moving when a touring company came to my city last year. I want someone to make an opera out of Endgame. That would be great.

But Play is awesome nonetheless:






And yes, this post is just an exuse to post that video. I love that video.
It could be rather cool sung as well. Fifteen minutes of atonal patter trio.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Why in the hell was I talking about Janacek in post #6?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I can't say I have high expectations. I just read an interview with Boulez, and he was so negative across the board; he's upset at just about everything in the field of opera and nobody seems to be good enough for him. He also seemed to be against any kind of beautiful melody in opera. He came accross as a bitter old man.

I feel for him. I have no use whatsoever for him as a composer nor as a musical theorist dictating his brand of late modernism and dismissing anything that dared to employ the least hint of traditional tonality or melody. I think he had his moments as a conductor... bringing a certain muscularity to French music especially... although in many instances I far prefer Charles Dutoit, Jean Martinon, Charles Munch, and Ernest Ansermet.

In too many ways he reminds me of my old studio mate... an equally bitter old f*** who rails against beauty and anything that speaks to the "ignorant bourgeois" and embraces the mantra that the role of art is to offend, desecrate, and give the finger to the masses.:lol:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> In too many ways he reminds me of my old studio mate... an equally bitter old f*** who rails against beauty and anything that speaks to the "ignorant bourgeois" and embraces the mantra that the role of art is to offend, desecrate, and give the finger to the masses.:lol:


Actually, I'd be pretty interested in an artist who can "offend, desecrate, and give the finger to the masses." The question is whether Boulez can still do it effectively (if he ever could).


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Boulez = conductor. Enough said.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

hmm...
Is there still hope? really?

nah...


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

I'd love a Boulez opera, but I can't say I expect one. That being said, he seems in good health still, so...?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Unfortunately, Boulez has had to retire from the podium due to failing eyesight , and I'm not sure whether he can ccompose any more because of this . But with today's advanced technology, there must be some way for him to continue composing . (I hope )


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## Sina (Aug 3, 2012)

Almaviva said:


> 2015? Boulez will die before he does it.


Though he lived a week into 2016!


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