# Beethoven's Overtures



## realdealblues

Thought I'd do a simple poll today for fun.

I would like to know:

*Which Beethoven Overtures do you feel are "truly great" or what some might call "essential listening"?*

If you think they are all great and absolutely need to be heard by everyone than vote for all of them.

If you think only a few are great, just vote for those few.

If you don't think any of them are great, don't vote.

If you haven't heard any of the ones listed, take a few minutes, go listen to them and then come back and vote :lol:

Just curious to see what results will be. Several of the Overtures are recorded with almost every Symphony cycle produced. Others you don't see many recordings of at all. Are some truly better than others? Are the lesser recorded ones just as great but just overlooked? Let's see what the general consensus on here is...


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## gardibolt

I am embarrassed to say that I was once many, many, many years ago on a televised quiz show where one of the questions was identify this Overture by Beethoven. They played three excerpts from it, for progressively fewer points each clue, and I knew I knew it but could not place it for the life of me. I made three guesses (all thankfully Beethoven overtures) but they were all wrong. It turned out it was King Stephen. To this day, I cannot tell you how that one goes but I can hum substantial bits from most of the others for you.

Why they were asking high school students to name the King Stephen Overture, I cannot answer for you either. It seems unduly obscure even to me.


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## phlrdfd

The King Stephen is one of Beethoven's more underrated (or as you say, unduly obscure) IMO. It's such a "feel good" piece; a real mood lifter. Scherchen's recording of it is one of my favorite Beethoven overture recordings. It's so alive.


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## Weston

They're all essential to me, except maybe Name Day Overture. I don't recall hearing of that before. (Listening on YouTube, now. It sounds fairly typical.) 

I tend to lean more toward the non-Fidelio oriented overtures, so King Stephen, The Ruins of Athens. and Consecration.


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## Vaneyes

Cleveland/Szell really shine in the LvB Overtures. I prefer them over their LvB Symphonies. For those interested, get as late a remastering as you can, atleast 1990's. It does make a difference. :tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl

Ok, I just went through and listened to them all. I have heard them all at least once before, but am very unfamiliar with many because I normally only listen to overtures in conjunction with the associated work. As such I am very familiar with the Fidelio overture and would certainly consider that one essential. But I had to vote for all of them because I would not want to get rid of any. 

If you had a list with Fur Elise, I would have had something to vote against--and that only because others ruined it by making other associations with it.


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## FLighT

Just sitting down to listen to Abbados' VPO complete set on DG to compare with Zinmans on the Arte Nova label.


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## Truckload

All of the Beethoven overtures are wonderful and I enjoy all of them. 

The whole Fidelio / Leonore thing is so sad and heartbreaking. LVB wanted so badly to have an operatic success, but it was not his destiny. If he had just put all of that energy into more symphonies, we might have had two or three more than the 9 we have.

Among the non-Fidelio overtures I find the Coriolan especially interesting. Many years ago I did a measure by measure roman numeral harmonic analysis of the overture in order to try and understand it. Sometimes LVB's music sounds far ahead of it's time. He was of the High Classical era, yet some of his music seems to sound more like music of the mid-romantic era. (And then we have the Grosse Fugue which sounds a lot like serialism). For me Coriolan is a piece that seems to foreshadow the mid to late romantic era. To me it has less in common with the sound of most Mozart than it does with the sound of most Brahms. Very interesting.


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## SixFootScowl

Truckload said:


> All of the Beethoven overtures are wonderful and I enjoy all of them.
> 
> The whole Fidelio / Leonore thing is so sad and heartbreaking. LVB wanted so badly to have an operatic success, but it was not his destiny. If he had just put all of that energy into more symphonies, we might have had two or three more than the 9 we have.


Doesn't break my heart at all because one of may all time favorite musical works is the opera Fidelio. It is a masterpiece, a "flawed masterpiece" (to quote Bernstein), but a masterpiece.


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## DavidA

Truckload said:


> The whole Fidelio / Leonore thing is so sad and heartbreaking. LVB wanted so badly to have an operatic success, but it was not his destiny. If he had just put all of that energy into more symphonies, we might have had two or three more than the 9 we have.


I think this is a very contentious statement. Just think of the great conductors who reverenced and recorded Fidelio: Toscanini, Furtwangler, Fricsay, Karajan, Bernstein, Klemperer and a host of other great musical names. To them Fidelio was a success. Of course Beethoven was no Mozart when he came to writing opera any more than he was a Bach when he wrote the Missa Solemnis. But he had great genius and it is the sheer tension of that genius being realised in a form that was unfamiliar to him that gives the works their unique tension. Klemperer said Fidelio is absolutely unique in its genius and he was right of course. it is certainly one of the few operas that can move me to tears!


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## gardibolt

Truckload said:


> Among the non-Fidelio overtures I find the Coriolan especially interesting. Many years ago I did a measure by measure roman numeral harmonic analysis of the overture in order to try and understand it. Sometimes LVB's music sounds far ahead of it's time. He was of the High Classical era, yet some of his music seems to sound more like music of the mid-romantic era. (And then we have the Grosse Fugue which sounds a lot like serialism). For me Coriolan is a piece that seems to foreshadow the mid to late romantic era. To me it has less in common with the sound of most Mozart than it does with the sound of most Brahms. Very interesting.


Agreed. Coriolan is an endlessly fascinating little jewel.


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## DavidA

Florestan said:


> Doesn't break my heart at all because one of may all time favorite musical works is the opera Fidelio. It is a masterpiece, a "flawed masterpiece" (to quote Bernstein), but a masterpiece.


I don't think it should break your heart because someone on TC does not appreciate Fidelio, a work which obviously means a lot to you (and me also). People have a right to express their opinions politely (as Truckload has done) and we have a right to disagree with them, giving our reasons why we do!


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## SixFootScowl

DavidA said:


> I don't think it should break your heart because someone on TC does not appreciate Fidelio, a work which obviously means a lot to you (and me also). People have a right to express their opinions politely (as Truckload has done) and we have a right to disagree with them, giving our reasons why we do!


Right. What I meant was it does not break my heart that Beethoven had less time to compose additional symphonies because he spent so much time on Fidelio. To me, the extra time spent on Fidelio was well worth it.


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## Classical Music Fan

I enjoy all the Beethoven overtures. On a side note from my listening to film music, LvB's Leonore Overtures Nos 2 and 3 sound like two different versions of a cue in a film score.


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## afterpostjack

Weston said:


> They're all essential to me, except maybe Name Day Overture. I don't recall hearing of that before. (Listening on YouTube, now. It sounds fairly typical.)
> 
> I tend to lean more toward the non-Fidelio oriented overtures, so King Stephen, The Ruins of Athens. and Consecration.


I completely agree. King Stephen and The Consecration of the House are my two favorite Beethoven overtures. Actually, I love the complete works that King Stephen, The Consecration and the The Ruins belong to. Unfortunately, good recordings of some of these works are hard to come by. I am well acquainted with Abbado's of The Consecration and The Ruins, and then there is a good recording by Myung-Whun Chung of King Stephen.

Also, I should say that I am not that fond of the Name Day Overture. It is, to my judgement, not in the same class as Beethoven's other overtures.


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## SixFootScowl

Given the overwhelming response to Leonore #3 in this poll and compared to the much smaller response for Leonore #2 and #1, it seems that if one is going to listen to a Leonore overture, #3 is the one. What are the main differences. Is there any thing being missed if one focuses on #3 to the exclusion of #2 and #1? This article leads me all the more strongly to Leonore #3.


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## KenOC

Fritz Kobus said:


> Given the overwhelming response to Leonore #3 in this poll and compared to the much smaller response for Leonore #2 and #1, it seems that if one is going to listen to a Leonore overture, #3 is the one. What are the main differences. Is there any thing being missed if one focuses on #3 to the exclusion of #2 and #1? This article leads me all the more strongly to Leonore #3.


To me, the Leonore #3 makes #1 and #2 somewhat superfluous. Otherwise, the responses to this poll reflect pretty well my estimation of the overtures. Well, maybe _Consecration of the House _should be a bit higher, switching places with the _Fidelio _maybe...


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## Pugg

Egmont, Op. 84 leads comfortably though.


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## KenOC

Pugg said:


> Egmont, Op. 84 leads comfortably though.


Egmont is too short. I count that against it.


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## Merl

Weston said:


> They're all essential to me, except maybe Name Day Overture. I don't recall hearing of that before. (Listening on YouTube, now. It sounds fairly typical.)
> 
> I tend to lean more toward the non-Fidelio oriented overtures, so King Stephen, The Ruins of Athens. and Consecration.


Those are some my least favourite of the overtures, tbh.


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## Olias

They are all important but I tend to listen to Egmont the most.


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## Merl

Markevitch's Overtures disc is a cracker. Just saying.


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## SONNET CLV

I didn't vote for any overtures in this thread, but I've long found the _Egmont_ to be what I'd term quintessential Beethoven. If there is one work that captures the essence of an artist, it is quintessential. _Egmont_ strikes me as that sort of work from the pen of Beethoven. In its brief form it bubbles to the essence all of the qualities of the composer. One unfamiliar with the music of Beethoven could hear the _Egmont_, I suggest, and in some meaningful way come away with the essence of the composer's sound world. It's the work I would use to demonstrate the sound of Beethoven, if I could use only one work.


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## KenOC

Agree on the Egmont. The "heroic Beethoven" in a nutshell. It is, unfortunately, very short. I'll take the Leonore #3, where there's room for more to happen.


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## Art Rock

I like Egmont, Leonore 3 and Coriolan best, but I consider none of them essential. I have them all on CDs, but if I had to start all over again, I may pick a few - or none at all.


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## Star

Egmont for me followed by Leonore 3


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## Biffo

I voted for Coriolan, if I had read the poll correctly I would also have voted for Leonora No 3 and The Consecration of the House. All of them are fine works and if I think about it any longer I will be wanting to add Egmont and Leonora No 2.


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