# Franz Schmidt's Symphonies



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I recently purchased this album from Presto for a shade over ten bucks, taking a chance when they featured it on their recordings of the month. I was very impressed! Having never heard of Schmidt before this purchase, I now am of the opinion that he is an overlooked gem, at least in symphonic repertoire. The sound is also just superlative on this recording. Really incredible over good speakers/headphones.

Apparently, he lived roughly contemporary with Richard Strauss, born in Austria and dying in 1939. His work was viewed as somewhat conservative, reminiscent of the 19th century romantic style. This attracted the attention of the ascendant Nazi party, which may be why his work had been sidelined after the war. Schmidt himself was apparently apolitical, and his one commission from the Nazi party went unfinished by the time of his death.

Stylistically, I hear a lot of early Strauss, e.g. Tod und Verklarung and Symphonia Domestica. There is, however, a lot more romantic symphonic structure, a la Mendelssohn or Tchaikovsky. I also hear Brucknerian tones in the layering of strings.

Had anyone else heard of Schmidt? What do you think?

Here's a link to the beginning of the album (Sym. 1). It appears the whole thing is on YouTube.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Schmidt has been a favorite of mine for many years. In addition to the wonderful symphonies, he composed quite a few excellent chamber works, a couple of fine operas, and his signature work "The Book of The Seven Seals".


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Fine composer for the organ also - possibly the last in the Germanic tradition after the death of Max Reger?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Franz Schmidt is a composer of genuine stature whose music deserves to be better known . Despite the influence of other composers, his music has a distinctive sound and style of its own . 
I'm familiar with his four symphonies ; the best known is the elegiac and haunting 4th, written in memory his his daughter, who died tragically in childbirth . 
The Decca recording with Zubin Mehta and the Vienna Philharmonic is a classic and has never been surpassed , but I very much like the recording I have, with Franz Welser-Most and the London Philharmonic on EMI . As a native Austrian, Welser-Most is very much at home in the music of this composer . I haven't heard the new DG set with Paavo Jarvi and the Frankfurt RSO but would very much like to hear it . 
Schmidt's opera "Notre Dame", based on the famous novel by Victor Hugo, is an opera which also deserves to be better known . I have the excellent Capriccio recording with Gwyneth Jones as Esmeralda and the late, great Kurt Moll as Quasimodo . with Christof Perick conducting the Berlin RSO . This may be hard to find, but is well worth looking for . This opera would definitely be worth a production by the Met . 
The intermezzo form the opera is probably Schmidt's best known work . and has been recorded by Herbert von Karajan the BPO . Too bad he didn't record more of Schmidt's music .


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Also there is Naxos series of CDs with Malmö SO / Sinaisky, I am really curious if anyone could compare these to Järvi.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

superhorn said:


> Franz Schmidt is a composer of genuine stature whose music deserves to be better known . Despite the influence of other composers, his music has a distinctive sound and style of its own .
> I'm familiar with his four symphonies ; the best known is the elegiac and haunting 4th, written in memory his his daughter, who died tragically in childbirth .
> The Decca recording with Zubin Mehta and the Vienna Philharmonic is a classic and has never been surpassed , but I very much like the recording I have, with Franz Welser-Most and the London Philharmonic on EMI . As a native Austrian, Welser-Most is very much at home in the music of this composer . I haven't heard the new DG set with Paavo Jarvi and the Frankfurt RSO but would very much like to hear it .
> Schmidt's opera "Notre Dame", based on the famous novel by Victor Hugo, is an opera which also deserves to be better known . I have the excellent Capriccio recording with Gwyneth Jones as Esmeralda and the late, great Kurt Moll as Quasimodo . with Christof Perick conducting the Berlin RSO . This may be hard to find, but is well worth looking for . This opera would definitely be worth a production by the Met .
> The intermezzo form the opera is probably Schmidt's best known work . and has been recorded by Herbert von Karajan the BPO . Too bad he didn't record more of Schmidt's music .


Definitely agree, I do not bring up comparisons to diminish his own originality. And the Notre Dame Intermezzo is BEAUTIFUL.


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Gah! I was just reading about his life and the personal tragedies therein on Wikipedia, and suffering from survivor's guilt as I read it.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> Fine composer for the organ also - possibly the last in the Germanic tradition after the death of Max Reger?


The tradition post-Reger has remained alive and well in the works of Heinz Wunderlich, Joseph Ahrens, Karl Höller, Hermann Schroeder, Thomas Daniel Schlee, Max Drischner, & Ernst Pepping among others.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

I've heard the 4th Symphony on the new DG release with Paavo Järvi and I have to say it's absolutely majestic. Yes, the sound quality is top-notch, so is the performance, almost as good or perhaps better than the Mehta recording. For my money it's one of the best CDs that DG has released lately.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Schmidt's 3rd Symphony ranks among my favorite symphonies *ever*, not to mention favorite pieces too! It's a glimmering, delightful, magical, gem that I can't recommend enough.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Schmidt has been one of my favorite - maybe _the_ favorite - composer for decades. His music is honest, heartfelt, dignified, powerful and oh so listenable. I was a member of the Franz Schmidt Society in Vienna for 30 years, until it closed up a couple of years ago - its mission accomplished. I've traveled the world to hear his uplifting music played live. When the new DG set was announced I was thrilled - and I was hoping for more.

Overall, there's nothing wrong. The symphonies are mostly well played, well conducted. Unlike some people, I don't think the recorded sound is all that spectacular. If you know the music, not to mention other recordings, you'll soon realize that balances are off. Woodwinds are often hidden in a wall of strings. Brass and percussion reticent. Dang, how I wish they had recorded these in either SACD or Blu Ray!!!! The orchestra is excellent - BUT: there's one major error in the third movement where a brass player muffs a note badly. Why in the world didn't they go back and patch that goof? No excuses.

The fillers are a joke. Only the Notre Dame intermezzo? What a waste of space.

As far as the competition goes: For full sets, I'll take his father's. Better playing (Chicago and Detroit) and better sound from Chandos. But - the the Naxos set with Sinaisky is superb although the sound is more distant. But over the four disks you get all of Schmidt's orchestral music. What a deal! The MDR set with Fabio Luisi is superb, too.

I'm still very happy that DG did the cycle and I hope it prompts more performances of this beautiful music. But we all know that obscure composers are hard to promote - in Schmidt's case his Nazi connections don't help at all.

Schmidt's grave in Vienna's Central Cemetery:


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> As far as the competition goes: For full sets, I'll take his father's. Better playing (Chicago and Detroit) and better sound from Chandos. But - the the Naxos set with Sinaisky is superb although the sound is more distant. But over the four disks you get all of Schmidt's orchestral music. What a deal! The MDR set with Fabio Luisi is superb, too.


I don't know the Luisi set. In the Fourth, does he (or anyone else) take the work substantially slower than Mehta?

I ask because Georg Tintner, who attended the first performance of Schmidt's Fourth and was deeply impressed with it, "strongly disliked the Mehta recording; he thought it much too fast," according to Tintner's widow (amid the comments on this webpage: https://slippedisc.com/2020/09/why-do-they-bother-with-franz-schmidt/).

If Tintner judged even Mehta "much too fast," what would he have said about Sinaisky and the Järvis?!

I don't attach any special weight to Tintner's opinions, but I confess I'd like to hear a substantially-slower-than-Mehta performance, if only out of curiosity. Mehta is a good conductor, but I don't find it _inherently_ impossible to believe that he failed to plumb the full depths of a particular work of music. (Not saying; just asking.)


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I am a fan of the Schmidt symphonies, and the other orchestral works that seem to end up as fillers on CDs are very good as well, as is the Book of the Seven Seals, which disappointingly is nothing to do with the marine mammals.

But as much as I enjoy the first three symphonies (and I have to admit No.3 is really growing on me), No.4 towers above the earlier ones. It is one of the finest works of its era, and deserves to be heard more often.

I have the Sinaisky set on Naxos, as well as the Chandos set under Jarvi snr.; Jarvi Jnr is on order, and I am excited to hear it when it arrives. Of the two sets I do have, my preference is for Sinaisky, but only slightly, and that's partially because of the generous range of fillers. Both sets are recorded immaculately as far as I am concerned.

The Piano Quintet is very good, as is the Clarinet Quintet; for the latter, in the old days the finale tended to be played on its own, a set of Variations on a theme by some chap called Josef Labor....


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> The tradition post-Reger has remained alive and well in the works of Heinz Wunderlich, Joseph Ahrens, Karl Höller, Hermann Schroeder, Thomas Daniel Schlee, Max Drischner, & Ernst Pepping among others.


I'm pleased to hear that, despite my total lack of familiarity with these people.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It seems that there is still one gaping hole in Schmidt's output - his second and final opera _Fredigundis_. It was never popular and is reputed to be flawed, but despite its obscurity I'm still surprised no-one has recorded it taking into account the quiet revival Schmidt's music has enjoyed during the CD era.

http://fredigundis.com/


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Am listening to the Järvi recording of Symphony #1 this morning, as I write this. I hear echoes of many composers, but I'm especially enjoying the 3rd movement. Generally speaking, by the start of the 20th century, I find less and less that appeals to me in classical music, but this symphony makes me willing to explore more of his music.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

gvn said:


> I don't know the Luisi set. In the Fourth, does he (or anyone else) take the work substantially slower than Mehta?
> 
> I ask because Georg Tintner, who attended the first performance of Schmidt's Fourth and was deeply impressed with it, "strongly disliked the Mehta recording; he thought it much too fast," according to Tintner's widow (amid the comments on this webpage: https://slippedisc.com/2020/09/why-do-they-bother-with-franz-schmidt/).
> 
> ...


Much too fast? Not at all, in fact, it's much too SLOW. When Schmidt himself conducted the 4th he clocked in around 40 minutes - I think the score says ca 39. So actually, Mehta drags it out - as do most other recordings. I love the Mehta as it was the one that imprinted on me, but there are several other superb readings: Martin Sieghart on Chesky, Welser-Most on EMI. The only multi- channel is Kreizberg on Pentatone, who takes a more measured tempo, but it sounds great. I heard him conduct it live in Philadelphia, Minneapolis, and St. Louis. The Netherlands orchestra is every bit as a good.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

vtpoet said:


> Am listening to the Järvi recording of Symphony #1 this morning, as I write this. I hear echoes of many composers, but I'm especially enjoying the 3rd movement. Generally speaking, by the start of the 20th century, I find less and less that appeals to me in classical music, but this symphony makes me willing to explore more of his music.


Great! Find Variations on a Hussar Theme and the Variations on a Theme of Beethoven. Schmidt was a master of theme and variation form. If you're into choral music look for THe Book with Seven Seals.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

I have the Jarvi senior recording of the 3rd which I enjoy. Recently however I was the fortunate recipient of the Bratislava S.O. recordings of the 1st and 2nd conducted by a less than renowned conductor ( so I cannot immediately recall the name) and I am also unsure of the label. Listening to the 1st I was 'stopped in my tracks' as it is such a wonderful work( I did comment on current listening thread)

Now seriously considering the Jarvi junior DG set and looking at Naxos Sinnaisky recordings as well.

Wonderful music!


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

This is i think the latest recording of Schmidt's symphonies.


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## gvn (Dec 14, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> Much too fast? Not at all, in fact, it's much too SLOW. When Schmidt himself conducted the 4th he clocked in around 40 minutes - I think the score says ca 39. So actually, Mehta drags it out - as do most other recordings.


Yes, my jaw dropped when I read Tintner's comments! (Tintner also said [see the webpage cited above] that Schmidt himself was a wonderful composer but a very poor conductor.)

Tintner very much wanted to record Schmidt's symphonies, but never got the chance. I wonder what they would have sounded like!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

jim prideaux said:


> I have the Jarvi senior recording of the 3rd which I enjoy. Recently however I was the fortunate recipient of the Bratislava S.O. recordings of the 1st and 2nd conducted by a less than renowned conductor ( so I cannot immediately recall the name) and I am also unsure of the label. Listening to the 1st I was 'stopped in my tracks' as it is such a wonderful work( I did comment on current listening thread)
> 
> Now seriously considering the Jarvi junior DG set and looking at Naxos Sinnaisky recordings as well.
> 
> Wonderful music!


There's a very good recording of No.3 on Supraphon, conducted by Libor Pešek, with the Slovak PO, worth finding (download on Supraphonline). Mustn't forget Schmidt was a native of Bratislava/Pozsony/Pressburg!!


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## kuniklo (Jun 21, 2020)

I'm new to these symphonies but I'm enjoying them quite a bit too. They're modern but I find them much more approachable than most 20th century symphonies.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

kuniklo said:


> I'm new to these symphonies but I'm enjoying them quite a bit too. They're modern but I find them much more approachable than most 20th century symphonies.


The 1st Symphony, my favorite, could be mistaken for a mid 19th century symphony. The 2nd movement Langsam (Adagio) is particularly beautiful:


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

See, this is one of the virtues of these forums.

I have never been able to connect with this music. I have the symphonies, the Chandos, which I found overly aggressive, sort of the standard Chandos thing. That label has a sound and I'm not crazy about it.

I also have the Mehta 4th and I think a Mitropoulos 2nd with VPO?

And I have a couple of book of the seven seals (like the sideline on this not being about mammals, although I might have preferred that).

So I will try again, good impetus to see if I can worm through to an appreciation of this music.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

No, 4 stands out, with its elegiac slow movement and overall structure, ending very neatly with that trumpet solo that sums up the whole work


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

manyene said:


> No, 4 stands out, with its elegiac slow movement and overall structure, ending very neatly with that trumpet solo that sums up the whole work


Agree completely. The 4th's a mighty work. Kirill Petrenko's/BPO rendition's a real stormer. Really good recording of this symphony. Hope it widens its appeal!

https://www.berliner-philharmoniker-recordings.com/petrenko-edition-1.html

Regards,

Vincula


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## EverythingVienna (Feb 18, 2021)

Have you heard the new Schmidt release? Its the first symphony only (apparently the other are coming soon), from the BBC National Orchestra of Wales and Jonathan Berman. I think its sensational! The orchestra sounds like an old school central european orchestra, the phrasing, and flexibility is wonderful and for me turns this piece into an early masterpiece (I'd never quite understood it before). If this is going to be a whole cycle I can't wait!

I'd be really interested what you guys (who probably know more than me) think about it.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

EverythingVienna said:


> Have you heard the new Schmidt release? Its the first symphony only (apparently the other are coming soon), from the BBC National Orchestra of Wales and Jonathan Berman. I think its sensational! The orchestra sounds like an old school central european orchestra, the phrasing, and flexibility is wonderful and for me turns this piece into an early masterpiece (I'd never quite understood it before). If this is going to be a whole cycle I can't wait!
> 
> I'd be really interested what you guys (who probably know more than me) think about it.


I was surprised when the BBC National Orchestra of Wales Schmidt cycle was announced -- it seemed ambitious. It is the first British recording of them and I'm glad to hear that Symphony No. 1 has turned out so well.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I haven't heard it yet, am anxious to but I'm hoping that a physical CD release is in the works. Not into downloading.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I bought the Naxos release of the symphonies when they first came out years ago and the only other work I had is _Das Buch mit sieben Siegein _)VPO Harnoncourt, again bought a long time ago.

I've attended a performance of symphony no. 4 and last year (?) I bought the Paavo Jarvi Frankfurt set, but I've only listened too the fourth symphony once. My early impression is that it's a better performance and recording than the Naxos.

The BBC National Orchestra of Wales/ Berman looks interesting (a very underrated orchestra, in my opinion), but I think I need to concentrate on what I already have!


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