# Great Cycles of Mozart's Piano Sonatas



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Some current favorites:

Gieseking
Gould
Bezuidenhout


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

No Brendel?
My favorite has long been Christoph Eschenbach, but I could easily live with Brendel, Uchida, or Walter Kleine.
Gould, btw, hated Mozart


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Triplets said:


> No Brendel?
> My favorite has long been Christoph Eschenbach, but I could easily live with Brendel, Uchida, or Walter Kleine.
> Gould, btw, hated Mozart


I know. I still find great enjoyment in his quirky takes; ironically it's my favorite thing he recorded.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mitsuko Uchida/ Elisabeth Leonskaja/Alfred Brendel
My favourite this moment is Daniel-Ben Pienaar (piano)


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I don't hear anything special in Uchida to be honest.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I know. I still find great enjoyment in his quirky takes; ironically it's my favorite thing he recorded.


Same here. I like his Mozart and his Haydn better than his Bach.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

My favorite Gould is his single album of late Brahms works. I also enjoy his Mozart, but wouldn't say he's asking my favorites for either composer.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

To my ears, William Youn's Mozart cycle is among the very best. Youn always felt at home with Chopin, later also with Schubert and Schumann. He admits that it took him a while to understand Mozart's special musical language, but after a while "suddenly I understood how emotional and dramatic Mozart's music is, how complex it is and deeply human."


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Any thoughts on Andras Schiff?


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Manxfeeder said:


> Any thoughts on Andras Schiff?


Schiff was my favorite until Bezuidenhout came along. I love how Schiff, for lack of a better description, adds a sort of intellectual precision to Mozart's sonatas.


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## John Zito (Sep 11, 2021)

Handy-dandy:

https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2016/02/a-survey-of-mozart-piano-sonata-cycles.html

I've never listened to a complete cycle of these works, but if I were going to sit down with one, I'd probably give Haebler a try. I really enjoy her Denon recording of K. 333.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

If there was Gulda in decent sound this would probably my favorite. The published "Gulda Mozart tapes" (DG, basically a private backup during test session that never led to the planned recordings) have sufficiently bad sound that it will deter some people (there are a handful sonatas or so in studio quality, one disc on amadeo and one on DG). I am still a bit puzzled that no tapes have surfaced from the Bavarian Radio because in my understanding Gulda played all? the sonatas in recital in Munich in the late 1970s and/or early 1980s.


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

Rogerx said:


> Mitsuko Uchida/ Elisabeth Leonskaja/Alfred Brendel
> My favourite this moment is Daniel-Ben Pienaar (piano)


I agree with the Daniel Ben-Pienaar choice. What we hear is a youthful Mozart. No Dresden China tinkling.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Triplets said:


> No Brendel?
> My favorite has long been Christoph Eschenbach, but I could easily live with Brendel, Uchida, or Walter Kleine.
> Gould, btw, hated Mozart


Then why did Gould want to die on Mozart's birthday?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Gould said he loved Mozart K.333


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Oops sorry I am thinking of Gulda. I am aware of Gould's eccentricities.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

hammeredklavier said:


> Gould said he loved Mozart K.333


How are we to take his comments about late Mozart? The passages he played from K491 - dismissing them as cliche ridden meaningless arbitrary scales and arpeggios are some of my favourite passages. Its a shame he did not choose K457 or K475 to pick apart or in fact the final movement of K491. I agree with him about the middle period piano sonatas - better than many of the later works.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Mozart wrote most of his keyboard sonatas for both the harpsichord and the fortepiano, as both instruments were popular by then. People play those historical instruments in a different style than they do with modern pianos. The differences are reflected in the sonatas Mozart composed. Brautigam is my favorite version on period instrument, as he reproduced the historical playing style for Mozart's keyboard works in a convincing way.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

PlaySalieri said:


> How are we to take his comments about late Mozart?


He also liked K.546, btw 







> The passages he played from K491 - dismissing them as cliche ridden meaningless arbitrary scales and arpeggios are some of my favourite passages.


'The Independent Pianist' has done a rebuttal on Gould's accusations:


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

A lot depends on how you like your Mozart. Do you prefer the elegant 'salon' style approach or do you want something a little more visceral and earthy. Maybe somewhere in the middle? Personally, the pretty and prissy approach to Mozart has never gone down well with me and it's the reason that I'm not a fan of Uchida as there is a lot of this in her cycle.

For the down to earth, bold as brass approach it's Klara Wurtz for me. That said, there is nothing really profound about any of her interpretations. For that I look at two other pianists, both women, who seem to find a depth in Mozart that others don't. One has already been mentioned - Ingrid Haebler. Hers are understated yet extremely subtle interpretations. No fussiness, no unnecessary bravura, just pure undistilled Mozart.

But better still is the second of Lili Kraus' two cycles recorded in the late '60s for Columbia. There is both passion and drama in these works as she leans towards the big bold approach taken by Wurtz. The difference between the two is that where it's needed, Kraus is far more lyrical. I listen to both. The Wurtz is brilliant for when I'm driving and I'll listen to the Kraus when I'm at home.


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## ribonucleic (Aug 20, 2014)

Watch the YouTube clip of Uchida playing the second movement of K.545 and then tell me there’s nothing special in her playing.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

ribonucleic said:


> Watch the YouTube clip of Uchida playing the second movement of K.545 and then tell me there's nothing special in her playing.


Yes, I'd agree but she wasn't consistent. Her D minor Fantasy is the almost the best I've ever heard but her overall output of the sonatas just left me cold.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

PlaySalieri said:


> Oops sorry I am thinking of Gulda.


I don't know if he wanted to, but he definitely managed to die on Mozart's birthday: 27th of January 2000. Gulda had been a heavy smoker and had had a severe heart condition for several years and supposedly knew for some time that he was moribund. I saw him in concert about 5 years before his death and he appeared rather frail for somone only ca. 64 years old.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Bruckner Anton said:


> Mozart wrote most of his keyboard sonatas for both the harpsichord and the fortepiano, as both instruments were popular by then. People play those historical instruments in a different style than they do with modern pianos. The differences are reflected in the sonatas Mozart composed. Brautigam is my favorite version on period instrument, as he reproduced the historical playing style for Mozart's keyboard works in a convincing way.


yes but he played the fortepiano a lot and Im not aware he had any affection for the harpsichord.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Kreisler jr said:


> I don't know if he wanted to, but he definitely managed to die on Mozart's birthday: 27th of January 2000. Gulda had been a heavy smoker and had had a sever heart condition for several years. I saw him in concert about 5 years before his death and he appeared rather frail for somone only ca. 64 years old.


Well - heavy smoking does takes its toll


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

hammeredklavier said:


> He also liked K.546, btw
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I was up until 1.30 am watching the rebuttal. I think the most serious flaw in Gould's critique is that he is quoting piano passages out of context - the passages make musical sense in the context of a piano concerto - not played in isolation. If he is saying that the middle period sonatas are superior - to what? The improvisatory piano solo in a piano concerto? Im not musically trained so cannot say - but supposing k491 possesses many characteristics of hack craftsmanship - its still bloody amazing music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> Mozart wrote most of his keyboard sonatas for both the harpsichord and the fortepiano, as both instruments were popular by then. People play those historical instruments in a different style than they do with modern pianos. The differences are reflected in the sonatas Mozart composed. Brautigam is my favorite version on period instrument, as he reproduced the historical playing style for Mozart's keyboard works in a convincing way.


Cavichord.

X xs,mine,môme,mine


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I rate the Mozart sonata cycle very highly and have heard most of those recommended in this thread. My own favourites are (in no particular order - all are equal firsts for me) Arrau, Say, Gulda (despite the unreliable sound), Brautigam and probably Pienaar.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Im yet to really get into Mozart's later sonatas - I know the middle works well (say from K310) to K457 and after that I cant quite get any into my memory. I will keep trying though.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> To my ears, William Youn's Mozart cycle is among the very best. Youn always felt at home with Chopin, later also with Schubert and Schumann. He admits that it took him a while to understand Mozart's special musical language, but after a while "suddenly I understood how emotional and dramatic Mozart's music is, how complex it is and deeply human."


Agreed, Youn seems to find a clarity without losing the soul of the sonatas, a difficult balance to achieve.


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## Simon23 (Dec 8, 2020)

The very first recordings I heard were Arrau. Great pianist and I still value them very highly. I would call it anti-HIP and that's very good.
Except Arrau -F. Gulda, I. Haebler, M. Uchida, L. Kraus.


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Uchida has been my gold standard over the years and nothing has really changed that. Someone in the thread mentioned they don't hear anything special in Uchida, and I think that's largely where my admiration is. To me, Mozart's piano solo piano music, for the most part, is not music that needs something special done to it. I want an interpretation to be as clear and lucid as water with a singing tonality. Uchida does just that. Others do it too, but often in inferior audio.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Uchida has been my gold standard over the years and nothing has really changed that. Someone in the thread mentioned they don't hear anything special in Uchida, and I think that's largely where my admiration is. To me, Mozart's piano solo piano music, for the most part, is not music that needs something special done to it. I want an interpretation to be as clear and lucid as water with a singing tonality. Uchida does just that. Others do it too, but often in inferior audio.


I'm the one who stated Uchida is boring. But, I get your points, well stated.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I'm the one who stated Uchida is boring. But, I get your points, well stated.


Have you ever tried the first Pires recordings?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Have you ever tried the first Pires recordings?


I'll try them tomorrow.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*Kristian Bezuidenhout* (period instruments)

*Giovanni De Cecco* (on clavichord)

*Bart van Oort* (period instruments)

*Siegbert Rampe* (modern & period instruments)


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Have you ever tried the first Pires recordings?


Very delicate and whimsical. I love it! .


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

SanAntone said:


> *Kristian Bezuidenhout* (period instruments)
> 
> *Giovanni De Cecco* (on clavichord)
> 
> ...


As stated in the OP, Kristian is a favorite.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> 'The Independent Pianist' has done a rebuttal on Gould's accusations:


In my video of this the announcer in the intro implied that it's light-hearted and whimsical. So I'm confused. Maybe the announcer (management) was smoothing it over for the TV audience. Maybe Gould was serious. TV (management) was different back then.

Gould makes some good points, but the big picture is quite different. It makes it quizzical for me. If this was how he felt from a soloist's point of view, it's believable, - outspoken, and the explorer that he was.

But I've thought k494 wasn't as interesting as k466. So I'm biased.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Many of those mentioned are good (I'm not rue there is a cycle I haven't heard). But for me the ones that most consistently reward are those by Gulda, Arrau, Leonskaja and Say. Robert Levin's new set may join these. I do listen to others are well (especially Pires, Uchida, Brautigam, Uchida) but could live without them so long as I had the four (or five) mentioned. I get different rewards from those four or five.


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## Artran (Sep 16, 2016)

Uchida, Schiff, Brendel, Pires. Würtz is very good but I like Brendel more. Especially young Brendel is phenomenal.

Btw, best 18 is by Ashkenazy whom I find mediocre in other sonatas but in 18 his aristocratic approach works.

Gould, Arrau and Say are horrendous, although Gould is funny at least.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Don’t forget Walter Klien.

Fischer, Schnabel, and Lipatti left us some great individual sonatas


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Maria Joao Pires


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Gieseking anyone?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Gieseking anyone?


I mentioned him in the OP!


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Maria Joao Pires


I have the disc with the first 5 soantats by Pires. Have to listen again. Its been awhile. Denon I believe


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Artran said:


> Gould, Arrau and Say are horrendous, although Gould is funny at least.


If you understand the significance of facts like these, all modern piano performances of Mozart sonatas will sound ridiculous to you. (ie. sound as wrong as 'wobbling' in singing)


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## Artran (Sep 16, 2016)

hammeredklavier said:


> If you understand the significance of facts like these, all modern piano performances of Mozart sonatas will sound ridiculous to you. (ie. sound as wrong as 'wobbling' in singing)


Ridiculousness has degrees. It's not binary. I also didn't have on my mind some kind of HIP approach to Mozart (nothing against that actually, I like HIP). In my view, the artistic approach towards Mozart of Gould, Arrau, and Say is simply too far-fetched. But, that's just my opinion and my ears - nothing more.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

golfer72 said:


> I have the disc with the first 5 sonatas by Pires. Have to listen again. Its been awhile. Denon I believe


They are now on Brilliant.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Artran said:


> Ridiculousness has degrees. It's not binary. I also didn't have on my mind some kind of HIP approach to Mozart (nothing against that actually, I like HIP). In my view, the artistic approach towards Mozart of Gould, Arrau, and Say is simply too far-fetched. But, that's just my opinion and my ears - nothing more.


Your ears tell you. The score is what inspires and guides performers. That's really all there is. We can think about traditions and whether they've been accurately handed down. We can think about what the composer might have 'liked', or what the composer expected, but it's problematic (and it stifles some of your own talent for patterns). It makes more sense to get as much as you can personally out of the expression in the score (especially in Haydn and Mozart solo works. LvB, Schubert and Chopin works are full enough (full of expression) that they play themselves in this regard.).


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## Artran (Sep 16, 2016)

Luchesi said:


> Your ears tell you. The score is what inspires and guides performers. That's really all there is. We can think about traditions and whether they've been accurately handed down. We can think about what the composer might have 'liked', or what the composer expected, but it's problematic (and it stifles some of your own talent for patterns). It makes more sense to get as much as you can personally out of the expression in the score (especially in Haydn and Mozart solo works. LvB, Schubert and Chopin works are full enough (full of expression) that they play themselves in this regard.).


I have nothing against it, and I agree with you. I'm a very liberal listener actually. But as always, there's a limit. I've listened to many (around 40) renditions of several Mozart sonatas and after that period I have simply my own personal idea of what is my ideal Mozart sound and interpretation.


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