# Suggestions for Opera Newbie



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Hi all, please be kind to a poor newbie, :lol:

So the only opera I've watched thus far is Wagner's Ring cycle. I thought it was awesome, now I want to get a new opera to watch/listen to. I want to try something besides another Wagner I decided (for now). I've kind of narrowed it down to 3 options in my mind: 

Mozart - Don Giovanni
R.Strauss- Salome
Britten-Peter Grimes

So what do you think is my best option out of these 3, (or if there is something you think is a better choice let me know, or anything in particular to watch out for etc.) Thanks in advance. 

(Btw I was going to make this into a poll but didnt understand where to put the options after highlighting the poll options?)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Well they couldn't be more different.

Don Giovanni is a light comedy with lively, uplifting music, and a dramatic ending. It is rather spectacular and one of the best operas ever written.
Salome is a complex work, launching the bases of modernist music with lots of dissonance, and a very edgy plot with eroticism and violence.
Peter Grimes seems more like a stage play than an opera, also with modernist music, declamatory style, with beautiful instrumental intermezzi and a very grim and depressing plot.
All three are first rate works so it depends on what you're in the mood for.

One way to go: you may want to consult our sticky thread about the top 100 recommended operas for several ideas on what to see next.

For polls you need to click first on the poll option then there is a dialogue box in which you pick how many options and fill in the options.

But this kind of thing in my opinion is not for a poll. How will people advise you to pick one of these three radically different works? We'd need to know more about your tastes and what you're willing to see.

Of course the fact that you have loved the Ring, the most complex of all operas, bodes well for your ability to appreciate just about anything, so my guess is that you'll like all three that you have selected.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Despite the best efforts of my friends I still don't 'get' Wagner so to _start_ with him I think is fantastic. 

As for where to go next, I would say Don Giovanni, but take into account you're already way ahead of me.

Or you could try Verdi


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I've always been glad that Carmen was my first opera.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Very good information so far folks, thanks. :tiphat:

When I finally decide what I'm going to get I'll let you all know. 

Oh and sospiro if I'm not mistaken Gustav Mahler conducted many Verdi operas and was quite influenced by him, so he can't be all bad in my books, he is definetely on my list of opera composers to check out in the near future!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I'd be interested to know what kind of non-operatic music you enjoy, before recommending anything.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm about at your level, tdc. I saw an awesome setting of the ring cycle and was blown away. But then I tried some other things and haven't found much. Beethoven's Fidelio just doesn't cut it, much as I love the man's music. I also had no luck with The Magic Flute -- kept falling asleep. I did really enjoy Monteverdi's L'Orfeo and Rameau's Les Indes galantes. These were the more recent productions, the Monteverdi with Jordi Savall dressed in period outfits with period instruments, and the Rameau being that recent almost variety show version that is so much fun. 

I too would like to know where to go next. I'm looking at more Wagner. Tristan maybe?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Weston said:


> I'm about at your level, tdc. I saw an awesome setting of the ring cycle and was blown away. But then I tried some other things and haven't found much. Beethoven's Fidelio just doesn't cut it, much as I love the man's music. I also had no luck with The Magic Flute -- kept falling asleep. I did really enjoy Monteverdi's L'Orfeo and Rameau's Les Indes galantes. These were the more recent productions, the Monteverdi with Jordi Savall dressed in period outfits with period instruments, and the Rameau being that recent almost variety show version that is so much fun.
> 
> I too would like to know where to go next. I'm looking at more Wagner. Tristan maybe?


Tristan is wonderful. Why not?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I'd be interested to know what kind of non-operatic music you enjoy, before recommending anything.


My tastes range a lot. I enjoy many different artists from renaissance period to modern and everything in between. I'd say I lean towards baroque era stuff and more modern(ish) composers such as - Ravel, Debussy, Mahler and Britten etc. But Im all across the board really and my tastes are still kind of growing and changing. For example Ive been listening to guys like Penderecki, Glass, Cage and Falla a lot lately, but I wouldnt necessarily say they are my favorite composers, just what Im currently liking.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

tdc said:


> My tastes range a lot. I enjoy many different artists from renaissance period to modern and everything in between. I'd say I lean towards baroque era stuff and more modern(ish) composers such as - Ravel, Debussy, Mahler and Britten etc. But Im all across the board really and my tastes are still kind of growing and changing. For example Ive been listening to guys like Penderecki, Glass, Cage and Falla a lot lately, but I wouldnt necessarily say they are my favorite composers, just what Im currently liking.


A fantastic baroque opera is Giulio Cesare. The glyndebourne dvd version comes highly recommended


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> A fantastic baroque opera is Giulio Cesare. The glyndebourne dvd version comes highly recommended


Im such a newbie I actually had to google that to find out the composer is Handel. :lol:

That is a very good recommendation thanks.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

tdc said:


> Im such a newbie I actually had to google that to find out the composer is Handel. :lol:


Oops, sorry, meant to put that in.

I don't know how you feel about listening to music/watching opera via a computer, but there is a streaming service run by the Metropolitan Opera called Met Player that you can subscribe to for US$14.95 a month.

There is an excellent Peter Grimes:

http://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/catalog/detail.aspx?upc=811357011713

two very fine Don Giovannis:

http://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/catalog/detail.aspx?upc=811357012215
http://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/catalog/detail.aspx?upc=811357011232

and a good Salome

http://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/catalog/detail.aspx?upc=811357012031

in the video options, and a wealth of audio broadcasts. It's an inexpensive way of establishing your tastes.

You can start off with a 7-day free trial.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks again Almaviva and mamascarlatti for the good info. Also thanks Weston for the baroque recommendations, Ill check them out.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

ones that i love, and got into first are..

rigoletto-verdi
la boheme-puccini
tristan und isolde, lohengrin-wagner


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

the_emptier said:


> ones that i love, and got into first are..
> 
> rigoletto-verdi
> la boheme-puccini
> tristan und isolde, lohengrin-wagner


I think Lohengrin is somewhat underrated in terms of Wagner's operas. It is often quoted further down as compared to others, but it is one of my favorites. I'm moved to tears by it.

Tristan und Isolde of course is the second best opera of all times, right behind the Ring.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

im watching, bit by bit, a 1980's production of lohengrin on VHS that i found at a garage sale, really like it so far.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

These seem to be the only Lohengrins from the 80's that were released on VHS:

*Conductor Woldemar Nelsson - 1982(LC)*

*Orchestra - Bayreuth Festival*

*Chorus - Bayreuth Festival* 
*Lohengrin - Peter Hofmann*

*Elsa - Karan Armstrong*

*Ortrud - Elizabeth Connell*

*Friedrich von Telramund - Lief Roar*

*König Heinrich - Siegfried Vogel*

*Der Heerrufer des Königs - Bernd Weikl*

*-----------------------------------------------------*

*Conductor James Levine - 1986(LI)*

*Orchestra - Metropolitan Opera*

*Chorus - Metropolitan Opera*
*Lohengrin - Peter Hofmann*

*Elsa - Éva Marton*

*Ortrud - Leonie Rysanek*

*Friedrich von Telramund - Lief Roar*

*König Heinrich - John Macurdy*

*Der Heerrufer des Königs - Anthony Raffell*
​


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

'82, although the met one sounds great as well


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

^ Thanks again for the suggestions all. I ended up going with :










and










Both of which I really enjoyed. Admitedly my heart kind of sank when I first realized I had purchased a 'film' version of Salome, because I didn't initially even notice that in the store. I just recognized the cover from threads I had seen here. But upon watching it the music was absolutely spectacular and the acting really solid too. All in all I was happy with it. I'll definetely be checking out more Strauss operas in the future.

Peter Grimes has some of the awesomest music ever imo, and although I found the libretto quite confusing at times to follow, I found it had a poetic archetypal beauty that was really unique. I found myself very moved by this production, but have yet to hear what others at this site think of it compared to other versions of Peter Grimes.

Next up will be this:










Definetely looking forward to this one!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

That Salome is a filmed version, but it is quite theatrical, since they've used a small space, similar to a stage. It is almost perfect in all aspects, and the opera itself is a great one, so, this DVD is very satisfying.

I've never seen the version of Peter Grimes that you've quoted.

This is the one that I own, and I find it absolutely spectacular:










As for R. Strauss, I'll copy here a couple of paragraphs from another thread, where I was giving my opinion on the best/worst operas by him (among the nine I know, there are others althouth they're more obscure), for what it's worth (of course, this reflects my taste which is not necessarily equal to yours):

"1. Die Frau ohne Schatten
2. Elektra
3. Salome
4. Der Rosenkavalier
5. Ariadne auf Naxos
6. Arabella
7. Capriccio
8. Daphne
9. Intermezzo

My number one is poorly known but for me it's his best, a very underrated masterpiece. The next three are everybody's favorites so no surprises there. The order of these three shows my preference for the more modernist music and tighter dramatic impact of Elektra and Salome over the longer and more uneven Der Rosenkavalier, in spite of the spectacular show stoppers of the latter such as the Presentation of the Rose and the final trio.

Next, some might be surprised that I rank Ariadne auf Naxos above Arabella, but yes, Ariadne is his ugly duckling but I quite like many parts of it.

Then Arabella is fine, very enjoyable. Capriccio is less good in my opinion, and boring in parts. Daphne is very beautiful musically but is dramatically weaker (this may have to do with the fact that the production I saw was very bad, maybe if I see another one I'll rank it higher). And Intermezzo in my opinion is a big disaster, it's the only one of the 9 that I don't like."


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Good information Almaviva, thanks. Though I was a bit disheartened to read in another thread the best Opera you've EVER seen, isn't even available on DvD. (Berlioz) :scold:


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

tdc said:


> Good information Almaviva, thanks. Though I was a bit disheartened to read in another thread the best Opera you've EVER seen, isn't even available on DvD. (Berlioz) :scold:


Yep, but YOU can see it, and many others, by subscribing to Met Player.

:tiphat:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yep, but YOU can see it, and many others, by subscribing to Met Player.
> 
> :tiphat:


You're really gonna get me on that thing one of these days...take it easy on a poor newbie will ya.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah, I know, I bang on about it, but seriously, it is a good way to get familiar with a lot of operas (audio files too) with minimal financial outlay.

Otherwise, if you get hooked, one day you'll find yourself camping out in cardboard city with Alma, sospiro, DA, rgz, jhar26, me, and a big pile of unwatched opera DVDs.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Yeah, I know, I bang on about it, but seriously, it is a good way to get familiar with a lot of operas (audio files too) with minimal financial outlay.
> 
> Otherwise, if you get hooked, one day you'll find yourself camping out in cardboard city with Alma, sospiro, DA, rgz, jhar26, me, and a big pile of unwatched opera DVDs.


:lol::lol:

Oh yeah, you're right you know. I don't think you bang on about it, I was just kiddin' 

Its a good idea and something I will probably end up checking out. :tiphat:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

tdc said:


> Good information Almaviva, thanks. Though I was a bit disheartened to read in another thread the best Opera you've EVER seen, isn't even available on DvD. (Berlioz) :scold:


Just a clarification: no, not the best *opera.* The best opera *video.* Just considering the opera itself (not the performance, recording, video, etc.) I rank other operas ahead of _La Damnation de Faust_, although it is indeed one of my favorites.

But yes, I thought that the streaming video on MetPlayer (originally for Met in HD) of the Met staging of _La Damnation de Faust _was the best opera video I've ever seen.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Starting with the Ring is a tall order for an opera newbie,and I admire your courage !
There are lots of other wonderful operas you should try which are much more approachable for novices.
For example,in Wagner,try the Flying Dutchman,which is a much earlier work and mercifully short,only about two and a half hours long. 
Or Fidelio, Beethoven's only opera, and one of his greatest works,period. Like typical German operas of the period,it has spoken dialogue between the musical numbers.
Der Freischutz, "The free shooiter" , by Carl Maria von Weber,is roughly contemporaneous with Fidelio, and also has spoken dialogue. It's an entertainingly spooky opera but with a happy ending.
Die Zauberflote (The Magic Flute),by Mozart, also has spoken dialogue and is in German,too. It's a fanciful fairy tale and a Masonic allegory. 
"Elektra" by Richard Strauss, came just after Salome, is based on Sophocles, and is 
a brutal and savage story,but absolutely riveting. The music is fierce, but never ugly.
Also by Strauss is the sexy and funny romantic comedy Der Rosenkavalier(The Rose Cavalier), which is about amorous intrigue in 18th century Vienna among both the aristocracy and the lower classes. It's great fun, and the music is gorgeous.
Puccini's Tosca is a fast moving and tense melodrama which takes place in Rome during the Napoleonic wars and is about a glamorous opera diva who runs afoul of the brutal and ruthless Roman police chief Scarpia, who lusts after her and wants to kioll her boyfriend,the painter and revolutionary Mario. There's asurprise ending which packs areal wallop.
Boris Godunov by the 19th century Russian composer Modest Mussorgsky ,is based on actual Russian history if not totally accurate in detail, and is an epic story of the late 16th centyruy usurper Tsar Boris Godunov, and the turbulent history of Russia.
It's a sweeping and powerful epic. 
Therse are just a few recommendations, and there are excellent DVDs of all of them. Try classicstoday.com for reliable recommendations.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

superhorn said:


> Boris Godunov by the 19th century Russian composer Modest Mussorgsky ,is based on actual Russian history if not totally accurate in detail, and is an epic story of the late 16th centyruy usurper Tsar Boris Godunov, and the turbulent history of Russia.
> It's a sweeping and powerful epic.
> Therse are just a few recommendations, and there are excellent DVDs of all of them. Try classicstoday.com for reliable recommendations.


Superhorn, you make some fabulous points and recommendations. I'd be careful with Boris Godunov, though; it could scare off a novice. I love it, don't read me wrong, but it is long, complex, and musically difficult, especially if the version picked by the novice is the one with the Mussorgsky orchestration (the one I prefer) over the sweetened Rimsky-Korsakoff's orchestration. But then, I suppose that if the novice wants to tackle the Ring first, then there is no problem with tackling Boris.

About recommendations for DVDs, we have our own little project going, and it's been fun, I hope you'll join, and the novice can find a number of DVD recommendations there:

http://www.talkclassical.com/12300-talk-classical-most-recommended.html


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Almaviva said:


> Superhorn, you make some fabulous points and recommendations. I'd be careful with Boris Godunov, though; it could scare off a novice. I love it, don't read me wrong, but it is long, complex, and musically difficult, especially if the version picked by the novice is the one with the Mussorgsky orchestration (the one I prefer) over the sweetened Rimsky-Korsakoff's orchestration. But then, I supposed that if the novice wants to tackle the Ring first, then there is no problem with tackling Boris.


I find Boris much easier for myself than Bel Canto opera (or other typical "first" operas), particularly coming from an orchestral background. It's probably what makes the Ring so much easier to digest to people who are new to opera but not to classical music; it's just a 12-hour long tone poem, basically. With voices.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

World Violist said:


> I find Boris much easier for myself than Bel Canto opera (or other typical "first" operas), particularly coming from an orchestral background. It's probably what makes the Ring so much easier to digest to people who are new to opera but not to classical music; it's just a 12-hour long tone poem, basically. With voices.


Good point, World Violist. Besides, there is no wrong way to approach opera... I think that someone who loves classical music will enjoy most of the great operas out there.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

superhorn said:


> Starting with the Ring is a tall order for an opera newbie,and I admire your courage !
> There are lots of other wonderful operas you should try which are much more approachable for novices.
> For example,in Wagner,try the Flying Dutchman,which is a much earlier work and mercifully short,only about two and a half hours long.
> Or Fidelio, Beethoven's only opera, and one of his greatest works,period. Like typical German operas of the period,it has spoken dialogue between the musical numbers.
> ...


This is really a lot of great information, thanks! I've got my work cut out for me so to speak, but I'm very much looking forward to viewing many of these operas.


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