# Mozart Church Sonatas



## Geoff48 (Aug 15, 2020)

Somehow the thought of music designed to be played in Church has all sorts of negative connotations. In particular the music must be serious as befits the setting. Which I why I was pleasantly surprised to come across a cd of 17 church sonatas by Mozart.
As an inveterate browser on Amazon I was tempted to buy a 40 cd set described as a Premium edition and issued by a Company called Cascade Medien. Maybe the fact that it cost under a fiver might have influenced me. Be that as it may I was generally pleased with the set. It contained a reasonable cross section of the usual suspects and whilst I wasn’t aware of most of the performers a search of google suggested that they were genuine rather than members of the Alfred Scholtz stable. Performances more than adequate. 
Then I came across CD 17, the Church Sonatas played by Bohuslav Matousek whom it seems had been leader of the Stamic Quartet. And for over an hour I was entranced by a series of short pieces which could easily have come from serenade, divertimento or cassation. Tuneful pieces and far too good to be mere background to a church service. Which must have been the view of the Archbishop of Salzburg since once Mozart left he replaced them with congregational hymns, a most unmusical cleric.
Well worth trying. I suspect there are versions on Spotify if you want a taster. And be prepared to be pleasantly surprised


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## receivedxqy (4 mo ago)

Only spiritual music should be played in churches. The choice must be based on the principle of dissimilarity with secular music. It should also not be associated with people's behavior in the sinful world. I heard church music on firstchurchlove.com for the first time. I did not know it was possible before. Btw, the Bible gives us general principles for evaluating everything that can happen in the local church nowadays. Even if I do not see the depravity of a mundane or charismatic song today, I should shun and reject it.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

I'm in an iconoclastic mood today and I'm gonna say that the Archbischop was probably right in literally booting his employee because Mozart didn't have a single spiritual fiber in his body.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Geoff48 said:


> Which must have been the view of the Archbishop of Salzburg since once Mozart left he replaced them with congregational hymns


Before Mozart left actually. He actually wrote a gradual (K.276) too as a result of that, although his colleague, who never quitted his service to the Salzburg archbishop, produced about a hundred throughout his career.
Here's an example of such graduals (Tenuisti manum, @2:08)-


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Well, I guess I better explain what I meant then.
Colloredo wasn't a tone deaf idiot who failed to recognize Mozart's godly talents. That's romanticized rubbish. He was an intelligent church reformist whose ideals, influenced by the age of Enlightment were strikingly advanced for his time. Among other things, he wanted a greater participation in the liturgy by common people who couldn't understand Latin masses, and one way to achieve that goal was introducing congregational hymns. That ideal was only institutionalized by the Catholic church after 1963.
Instead of the required sober style, Mozart wanted to "show off" as a composer. Understandably so for a young man, full of ambition, but it was very much a case of the wrong person at the wrong spot. Could Colloredo have been more sympathetic to Mozart? Sure, but it wasn't his job to provide fertile ground for the young composer's development.
Mozart wasn't a very spiritual person (and here I mean spiritual in the most strict sense of the word), illustrated by the fact that after his dismissal he never completed a religious composition again, except for the short and simple "Ave Verum". Not that it matters much. He had other qualities that make him one of the great composers.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

RobertJTh said:


> after his dismissal he never completed a religious composition again, except for the short and simple "Ave Verum".






(cir. 1787~1791)

+he completed the K.427 mass as a cantata, Davidde Penitente K.469.



RobertJTh said:


> Mozart wasn't a very spiritual person (and here I mean spiritual in the most strict sense of the word),


_"Papa must not worry, for God is ever before my eyes. I realize His omnipotence and I fear His anger; but I also recognize His love, His compassion, and His tenderness towards His creatures. He will never forsake His own. If it is according to His will, so let it be according to mine. Thus all will be well and I must needs be happy and contented." _-Mozart (in letter to his father, October 25, 1777)

_"This very moment I have received a piece of news which greatly distresses me, the more so as I gathered from your last letter that, thank God, you were very well indeed. But now I hear that you are really ill. I need hardly tell you how greatly I am longing to receive some reassuring news from yourself. And I still expect it, although I have now made a habit of being prepared in all affairs of life for the worst. As death, when we come to consider it closely, is the true goal of our existence, I have formed during the last few years, such close relations with this best and truest friend of mankind, that his image is not only no longer terrifying to me, but is indeed very soothing and consoling! And I thank my God for graciously granting me the opportunity of learning that death is the key which unlocks the door to our true happiness." _-Mozart (in letter to his father, April 4, 1787)

That he nevertheless retained an interest in church music is indicated by several performances of the Salzburg Masses, for which he had the parts sent on from Salzburg. Also significant is an application to the Emperor in May 1790 for the post of assistant _Hofkapellmeister_ under Salieri, in which Mozart recommended himself above all as a composer of church music." (Christer Malmbergs värld - Musik - Klassisk musik - Wolfgang Amadé Mozart)

"On 9 May 1791, at his own request, Mozart was appointed assistant-Kapellmeister to Leopold Hofmann, an unpaid position. At the time Hofmann was ill and Mozart anticipated becoming Kapellmeister (at the Cathedral of St. Stephan) upon Hofmann's death. However, Hofmann survived Mozart and kept his post as Cathedral Kapellmeister until he died."


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

RobertJTh said:


> Mozart didn't have a single spiritual fiber in his body.





RobertJTh said:


> Instead of the required sober style, Mozart wanted to "show off" as a composer.


I disagree


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

receivedxqy said:


> Only spiritual music should be played in churches. The choice must be based on the principle of dissimilarity with secular music. It should also not be associated with people's behaviour in the sinful world.



Bit strange......, that means we never can see a requiem in a concert hall again and at a funeral we can not longer use other than spiritual music?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

RobertJTh said:


> Colloredo wasn't a tone deaf idiot who failed to recognize Mozart's godly talents. That's romanticized rubbish.


Fair point. If Colloredo really wanted his court composers to write like this (which was rare for its density even in German music), he would have had taste for harmonically/ contrapuntally dense music.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

RobertJTh said:


> Could Colloredo have been more sympathetic to Mozart?


This biopic briefly depicts their relationship- www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRfldU6zhWk&t=36m55s



> Sure, but it wasn't his job to provide fertile ground for the young composer's development.


_"My father is conductor at the Cathedral, so I can write as much church music as I want,”_ -Mozart, to Padre Martini, September 1776.
Colloredo was unhappy about Mozart's and his father's frequent absences; he could always replace Mozart with Haydn (as a court organist/konzertmeister). Mozart wanted a job elsewhere. It was a win-win situation.


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Rogerx said:


> at a funeral we can not longer use other than spiritual music?


If that means no more "Time to say Goodbye", I'm all for it.
Seriously, this "everything goes" mentality should be stopped. Playing pop cd's during funeral services. Playing cd's at all. Priests are afraid to alienate the few people that still chose a church funeral by forbidding certain kinds of music, that's understandable. But the least one could ask for is respect for and understanding of the specific character of the catholic liturgy. It's not just one way traffic, be served and get all your wishes fulfilled.
I see the weirdest things happening in my profession. Church goers with a firm faith, who participated in their local churches for their entire lives being denied a funeral in that same church because their families "don't care for that religious rubbish". Or, conversely, people with no catholic background, but with some interest in vague "spirituality" demanding a church funeral and turning it into a New Age circus.


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