# Anyone Dislike Hip-Hop?



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Explain why you dislike it. I'll start off. The annoying beat.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

The same chord progression and tonality and lack of development.


----------



## Celloman (Sep 30, 2006)

The name "hip-hop" is more than enough to keep me away from it.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

A kind of music where there seems to be a very blurry line between being genuinely original or annoyingly formulaic. I might be called biased or ignorant but most variants of dance music seem susceptible to this. 

Like with metal all the sub-categorising of dance in general is really annoying and just a little precious especially as there can't be all that much bloody difference between most of them: 

Electropop, glitchpop, hip house, nu-disco, synthpop, new rave, trance, house (UK garage in UK), Hi-NRG, electroclash, electro-industrial, drum and bass, dubstep, glitchstep, liquid funk, electro house, glitch house, progressive house, breakbeat, hardstyle, dubstyle, drumstep, hip hop, Baltimore club, trap, moombahton. 

And this is only some of them (courtesy of Wiki).


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

The problem is that you're looking for the qualities of classical music in hip-hop  If you want to listen to music with the qualities of classical music... stick to classical. hip hop is not about chord progressions or tonality, it's about something else entirely.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

niv said:


> The problem is that you're looking for the qualities of classical music in hip-hop  If you want to listen to music with the qualities of classical music... stick to classical. hip hop is not about chord progressions or tonality, it's about something else entirely.


Yep that's right, and another reason I don't like hip-hop. Whenever I try to analyse the music itself in that way I get told not to. It isn't about "music theory and analysis of the notes" it's about the non-musical elements.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

No, I don't mean it's about the non musical elements. Well, maybe lyrics (after all rap is rhythm and poetry). But it's about the groove, the timbres, the whole texture. Besides, music is not meant* to be analyzed only, it's also meant to be just listened or enjoyed, am I right? It's supposed to be *sound* at the end, and not just dots in a page, right?

*for some meaning of "meant".


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

elgars ghost said:


> A kind of music where there seems to be a very blurry line between being genuinely original or annoyingly formulaic. I might be called biased or ignorant but most variants of dance music seem susceptible to this.
> 
> Like with metal all the sub-categorising of dance in general is really annoying and just a little precious especially as there can't be all that much bloody difference between most of them:
> 
> ...


There is a lot of difference between each one of them. There are just more genres now a days. If they all was called "electronic" music, it wouldn't be so formulaic.

And what a incredibly destructive topic.


----------



## lll (Oct 7, 2012)

Sounds like the kind of thread made by someone who secretly likes hip-hop.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

Also I can't help but wonder at elgars comment... do you actually like to dance? What's so annoying about people actually wanting to dance (and sometimes *gasp* even to a basic 4/4 beat) that seems to offend some people here?!


----------



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't like rap, but I do like some hip-hop now and then. It's far from my favorite type of music, but I do recognize that a handful of artists out there do have some true talent. And hip-hop is less about the musical features and more about what is being said, basically a form of poetry with music added on top of it. That's part of the reason though why much of it is so bad...so many of the artists, particularly in the mainstream, only want to talk about "busting caps", doing drugs, and picking up countless women, while only a handful of good ones actually make interesting or thought-provoking lyrics.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

lll said:


> Sounds like the kind of thread made by someone who secretly likes hip-hop.


Fiction can be fun. But seriously why would anyone lie about the music they like? Alright I could see someone lying about Disco. See Hyde in That 70's Show. But hip-hop? Uh. Just horrible.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think a lot of people who say they hate hip hop just haven't heard the right artist.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> I think a lot of people who say they hate hip hop just haven't heard the right artist.


The right artist as in everything?


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> The right artist as in everything?


You have listened to the complete works of every single hip-hop artist? I normally criticise you for drawing conclusions from thin air, but I must applaud your efforts in this particular instance.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> The right artist as in everything?


Well, I'm just saying, it's a pretty diverse playing field. Have you sampled all the stuff in the other similarly named thread? I didn't like hip hop a couple years ago but found a lot of stuff I liked from more knowledgeable people on TC.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm sure there's a rare instance where I like a song from a hip-hop artist. But just like country the majority of the songs I don't like. And some I really dislike.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I'm sure there's a rare instance where I like a song from a hip-hop artist. But just like country the majority of the songs I don't like. And some I really dislike.


Oh, why? You didn't elaborate much in the OP.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Oh, why? You didn't elaborate much in the OP.


Plenty of reasons. But I decided to let others add to it. So far I agree with those reasons.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Stargazer said:


> I don't like rap, but I do like some hip-hop now and then. It's far from my favorite type of music, but I do recognize that a handful of artists out there do have some true talent. *And hip-hop is less about the musical features and more about what is being said, basically a form of poetry with music added on top of it. *.


I don't think that's true. The words matter, of course (though sometimes the content is less important than just the sound of the rhymes and the stresses). But the music is very important. Dr. Dre didn't become famous for his rapping ability. There aren't very many well-regarded hip hop acts who aren't doing something interesting with the beats and sampling.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> I don't think that's true. The words matter, of course (though sometimes the content is less important than just the sound of the rhymes and the stresses). But the music is very important. Dr. Dre didn't become famous for his rapping ability. There aren't very many well-regarded hip hop acts who aren't doing something interesting with the beats and sampling.


I'm more interested in the melodies. Not the beats. And the passive-aggressive comments that I'm racist aren't true. I like Blues and Jazz. I like Tony MacAlpine and many players in the NBA. Just annoying to find some thinking you have to like Hip-Hop to not be racist.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> I'm more interested in the melodies. Not the beats. And the passive-aggressive comments that I'm racist aren't true. I like Blues and Jazz. I like Tony MacAlpine and many players in the NBA. Just annoying to find some thinking you have to like Hip-Hop to not be racist.


Umm, who made passive-aggressive comments that you were I racist? If someone else did, please talk to them about it.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

GreenMamba said:


> Umm, who made passive-aggressive comments that you were I racist? If someone else did, please talk to them about it.


Um I know what they were hinting at. And I have no interests in confronting them. Especially considering it's against the ToS. I respect those who run this place.


----------



## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

I find hip-hop boring. As a genre, it's sort of a one-trick pony. It's all about rhythms, vocal and otherwise, and even then there isn't much variety.

Another thing I dislike is that often rappers value their rhythmic cadences to such a degree that they neglect the actual content of what they're saying. It's full of, "I'm this, and I'm that, and I'm gonna do this", etc., ad nauseam. When the song is over, you're left wondering what it was even _about_.

And before anyone accuses me of just not hearing the right artists, I grew up in the 80's and 90's fairly inundated by it.


----------



## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

There's music that I can enjoy without needing a reason to enjoy it. I find hip-hop very enjoyable when I am in certain moods. In fact, I downloaded two hip-hop songs from the iTunes store last night. They already have three listens each, so I guess that I've been in the right mood.

That said, I agree with those who have asserted that hip-hop as a genre is not very expansive. But then, no genre is as expansive as classical. It's unfair to compare any genre to classical because the latter spans hundreds, even thousands, of years. If all was right, classical music should not be lumped together into one genre in the first place. It's far too diverse.

That's why I'm happy with owning only a half-dozen hip-hop songs. Hey, that's more hip-hop in my library than medieval classical music combined. So as a genre you can't really say it's underrepresented.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

niv said:


> Also I can't help but wonder at elgars comment... do you actually like to dance? What's so annoying about people actually wanting to dance (and sometimes *gasp* even to a basic 4/4 beat) that seems to offend some people here?!


Not so much that I don't like to dance but can't.  And I for one didn't say I was annoyed about people wanting to dance.

I'm not exactly immune to '4/4' as such but the 'thump/sizzle' dance/techno take on it I find really grating after a while. I'm not completely averse to hip-hop/trip hop/rap either - I like Massive Attack, Cypress Hill and Public Enemy (yeah, I know - predictable choices...) but admit that I'm not going to wade through the morass of sub-genres in order to find someone else I might actually like. I'm sure there's a lot of underground stuff which is very good but that was one of the things I was trying to allude to in my first post - unless you are thoroughly steeped in the music how can one tell if it's good or ordinary? Or doesn't it matter? I'm sorry if my original post (or this one) caused offence or was deemed provocative - it wasn't intended to be but I also wasn't willing to sugar-coat it too much either.


----------



## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

I think there's something very exciting, very post-modern about hip hop artists like MF Doom, where the sound of the words is more important than the meaning. I know a few of the snobs itt will complain about rap lacking meaning, but maybe its a product of several generations of people who lack meaning in their lives. Not all music is supposed to express elegant, elevated ideals, and that doesn't make it inferior.






and my favourite


----------



## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

I don't go out of my way to listen to hip hop but I don't hate it. I hate the lyrical content of a lot of the mainstream artists, but the same goes for rock. I tend to prefer funk or jazz based stuff which isn't very popular these days.

Some of the instrumental stuff is quite interesting, some of these producers and turntablists are very talented.


----------



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Zappa once said, each musical style comes with it's own clothing trend...and I can't stand baggy pants or sideways hats.


----------



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

Well i do not like it because certain rap/hip-hop is negative & violent.Also they say stuff i have no idea they are talking about.The sounds are weird & not natural to me.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

mtmailey said:


> Well i do not like it because certain rap/hip-hop is negative & violent.Also they say stuff i have no idea they are talking about.The sounds are weird & not natural to me.


You know that there are pieces of classical music that are about violence liek Tchaicovskys 1812 overture.


----------



## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

mtmailey said:


> Well i do not like it because certain rap/hip-hop is negative & violent.Also they say stuff i have no idea they are talking about.The sounds are weird & not natural to me.


Once upon a time the sound of a violin, of a clarinet sounded weird and not natural to you.

I understand people not liking hip hop but the reasons presented are just so weak it seems as though no one is even trying to understand the music.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> And the passive-aggressive comments that I'm racist aren't true


I've just re-read everything and I can't find a single comment like that... was it deleted?


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> I like Massive Attack, Cypress Hill and Public Enemy


So you actually like hip hop! a lot of genres are filled with crap anyway.


----------



## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

jani said:


> You know that there are pieces of classical music that are about violence liek Tchaicovskys 1812 overture.


Strauss's Salome? I think I threw up a little in my mouth when I saw that one on video


----------



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

jani said:


> You know that there are pieces of classical music that are about violence liek Tchaicovskys 1812 overture.


That may be true but the versions i have here has no words to them or canon fires.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Most pop dance music has an annoying beat, i.e. a 4/4 always within a very small variance of BPM range, of which we are constantly reminded by a drum set relentlessly whapping out that 4/4 throughout each number. 
Yawn.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

niv said:


> I've just re-read everything and I can't find a single comment like that... was it deleted?


Misinterpreted.


----------



## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

Even though I don't like any of the hip-hop songs I've heard, I really can't say that I dislike the whole hip-hop genre, because saying that would be like a non-classical music listener saying they don't like classical music based on Canon in D or Fur Elise. I'm sure that the few mainstream hip-hop songs I've heard aren't everything. However, like mentioned above, I noticed that people who do like hip-hop always tell me that I'm listening for the wrong thing every time I comment on the purely musical aspects of the music. If I have to like hip-hop for its non-musical aspects, then I think it'll be difficult for me to learn to like it.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Feathers said:


> Even though I don't like any of the hip-hop songs I've heard, I really can't say that I dislike the whole hip-hop genre, because saying that would be like a non-classical music listener saying they don't like classical music based on Canon in D or Fur Elise. I'm sure that the few mainstream hip-hop songs I've heard aren't everything. However, like mentioned above, I noticed that people who do like hip-hop always tell me that I'm listening for the wrong thing every time I comment on the purely musical aspects of the music. If I have to like hip-hop for its non-musical aspects, then I think it'll be difficult for me to learn to like it.


The musical aspects that I like in rap are the textures and background layering and the rhythms. Maybe try thinking of the rappers voice like a drum? Sometimes the songs have pretty great musical pacing as well. Hope that helps


----------



## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

violadude said:


> The musical aspects that I like in rap are the textures and background layering and the rhythms. Maybe try thinking of the rappers voice like a drum? Sometimes the songs have pretty great musical pacing as well. Hope that helps


Hmmm...thinking of the rapper's voice like a drum...I like that idea! Hopefully, it would allow me to take my mind off the omg-so-much-fast-talking aspect of the music without taking away the rapper's vocal personality and its contribution to the texture. Also, I'm usually not as sensitive to rhythm as I am to harmony/melody, so maybe that's what I'm missing out on. Thanks, I will keep those tips in mind and try to "refresh" my ears.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2013)

I haven't listened to much hip hop, but this is the only album I've heard that I like


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

arcaneholocaust said:


> I haven't listened to much hip hop, but this is the only album I've heard that I like


Would be so much better without the rapping.


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2013)

I agree, really. But the music is at least good enough to justify the existence of the rapping.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

I never liked hip-hop too much, I couldn't relate to it. I never saw what made the artists so 'special', personally.


----------



## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

I do not know what 'hip hop' is, or whether I've heard any. 

Good or bad, I don't see the relevance of young people's music to me.

Do protest songs still get written (other than by Neil Young)?


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jobis said:


> Once upon a time the sound of a violin, of a clarinet sounded weird and not natural to you.
> 
> I understand people not liking hip hop but the reasons presented are just so weak it seems as though no one is even trying to understand the music.


Here is the thing about so many of the pop culture musical genres: they are culturally, i.e sociopolitically significant, with that aura of meaning attached to the various styles, many of those earning genre-sub headings to distinguish the relatively small musical differences between them.

It is that relatively small musical difference which, for me, makes the discussion of such genres virtually_ not about music_, but instead the social import of the genre. This is true of many of the sundry genres of youthful pop culture musics -- it is more about the social than the musical.

One scan of the Wiki article shows exactly the same. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop
What no one states, wisely, I think, is but for the general type of sound it makes, some technical devices used to make it, and the lyrics and their content, _there is very little music to discuss_. What slight differences there are in the sound, they way its made, again quickly turn to the social significance attached to those slight differences. That is all musical minutia.... leaving, for me, the discussion of same more properly sitting under the category of sociology. Like Cabaret, what little music is there is often of no real consequence, musically, and it is there simply to support (most usually) a text. When it is without text, it is pure dance music, still often associated with all the socio-political trappings, a collective identity of a group falling within one general demographic.

A question then, like "What do you think of Hip-Hop?" leaves almost nothing, to my way of hearing / seeing it, about the actual music being much interesting to discuss.

On a musical plane, there is very little to say about any of it, while about its sociopolitical significance, there is enough to discuss to make for more than one graduate thesis.


----------



## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I don't believe I am in the target market for those artists.


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

hayd said:


> I do not know what 'hip hop' is, or whether I've heard any.
> 
> Good or bad, I don't see the relevance of young people's music to me.
> 
> Do protest songs still get written (other than by Neil Young)?


Yep, and there are hip hop protest songs.


----------



## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

i don't like lyrics but the beat and music is good.


----------



## playpiano (Jul 13, 2013)

i think the best thing about it is the catchy melodies and they're easy to sing along to BUT most of the "artists" that release these songs couldnt make a tune out of an instrument if their life depended on it so really they aren't musicians yet get treated like royalty and win awards they dont deserve


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

But why music should be measured relative to whatever we can or not discuss a lot about it or not? How come technical musical discussion seems to trump over actual musical experiences?

What I believe is actually happening is that in some genres the main audience is not musicians, but listeners. And listeners simply enjoy, they don't tend to analyse music, they leave that to the musicians (in many cases, even "music critics" tend to be journalists that can analyse lyrics and that's where they stop). But here in talkclassical and other forums or classical wikipedia pages, it seems that it's more compelling to talk about the sonata form and whether the movements is allegro or con moto, in 4/4 or 6/8, and the technical innovations of some piece relative to the historical context rather than talking about the moods and feelings the piece evokes.

But this does not means that hip-hop cannot be analyzed, or that the main feature are non-musical elements (I still don't get this point?).


----------



## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

niv said:


> But why music should be measured relative to whatever we can or not discuss a lot about it or not? How come technical musical discussion seems to trump over actual musical experiences?
> 
> What I believe is actually happening is that in some genres the main audience is not musicians, but listeners. And listeners simply enjoy, they don't tend to analyse music, they leave that to the musicians (in many cases, even "music critics" tend to be journalists that can analyse lyrics and that's where they stop). But here in talkclassical and other forums or classical wikipedia pages, it seems that it's more compelling to talk about the sonata form and whether the movements is allegro or con moto, in 4/4 or 6/8, and the technical innovations of some piece relative to the historical context rather than talking about the moods and feelings the piece evokes.
> 
> But this does not means that hip-hop cannot be analyzed, or that the main feature are non-musical elements (I still don't get this point?).


I don't think it is all really technical here. But music is about more than just emotions as well, there has to be some craft and structure for music to be effective and listenable from start to end. And that doesn't need detailed technical understanding either. And feeling within longer works (which classical pieces often are) is not about to just stay static, it changes in relation to the structure.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

> But music is about more than just emotions as well, there has to be some craft and structure for music to be effective and listenable from start to end


I agree. My point was more about how there is that craft and that structure in hip hop too, but you might have to look elsewhere besides wikipedia (this pertains to what i said about main audience)


----------



## jrmcmichael (Jun 25, 2013)

I dislike it... Why you ask?? Well lets see.. The beat of most of it is terrible. Its to busy... The lyrics are almost always poorly written and are incredibly vulgar, violent, sexist and just plain offensive. And the worst part of it... It is everywhere.. I don't know whats wrong with the world that they like that nonsense dribble.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

to the guy above: like violadude say, you need to listen to the right artist.

Public enemy:


> I've been wonderin' why
> People livin' in fear
> Of my shade
> (Or my hi top fade)
> ...


vs.

black eyed peas


> They say I'm really sexy,
> The boys they wanna sex me.
> They always standing next to me,
> Always dancing next to me,
> ...


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

jrmcmichael said:


> I dislike it... Why you ask?? Well lets see.. The beat of most of it is terrible. Its to busy... The lyrics are almost always poorly written and are incredibly vulgar, violent, sexist and just plain offensive. And the worst part of it... It is everywhere.. I don't know whats wrong with the world that they like that nonsense dribble.


Drivel. Not dribble.


----------



## jrmcmichael (Jun 25, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> Drivel. Not dribble.


I was doing it from my phone... Blame it on spell check.. lol


----------



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

hiphop is lame now.


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Hip-hop is awesome.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Hip-hop is awesome.


Yes it is.

I love the chill and slightly sexual atmosphere in this song


----------



## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Oy, I was with the pro-rap crowd until Lil Wayne appeared 

Plus, it isn't real music unless you play your own instruments.


----------



## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

For those who like metal, what about Anthrax+Public Enemy ?






And what about Rage Against The Machine and other bands like that ? I'm not that knowledgeable about them but I love how styles which are supposed to be kind of "rivals" actually work very well together.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

Cross-pollination of and collaboration between disparate pop/rock styles has been one of music's genuine success stories since the 1980s as it helped kick into touch a lot of the insularity/tribalism in music culture that hitherto used to drive kids apart - the UK in the late 70s/early 80s was a particularly lairy era where you often had to nail your colours to one mast only. One early-ish mould-breaking example was Aerosmith/Run DMC's version of Walk This Way - it may have brought down certain barriers but I must say I still prefer the 'poor man's Rolling Stones' charm of the original (plus the original was too early to be done to death by MTV).


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Hip-Hop is awful.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

jani said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> I love the chill and slightly sexual atmosphere in this song


Oh no you didn't.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Hip-Hop is awful.


Makes a thread about how he doesn't like hip-hop, posts in the thread to say he doesn't like hip-hop, in case we didn't get the message the first time lol.


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Hip-Hop is awful.


Only as awful as heavy metal and Baroque and Classical period music :3


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Only as awful as heavy metal and Baroque and Classical period music :3


Fiction can be fun.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Makes a thread about how he doesn't like hip-hop, posts in the thread to say he doesn't like hip-hop, in case we didn't get the message the first time lol.


I'm sorry it is getting to you.


----------



## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I'm sorry it is getting to you.


Metal is easily worse than hip hop if we're going to talk subjectively.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Jobis said:


> Metal is easily worse than hip hop if we're going to talk subjectively.


Um no it isn't. They actually play with instruments. Some of the great things about classical can also be enjoyed in metal. Especially Progressive Metal.


----------



## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

They're both boring. As to which is worse than the other, I can't be bothered to investigate.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I just don't understand. I love both genres (metal and classical) so much. They have way more in common with each other. Hip-Hop is far different and stands for something totally different and yet many find that better? Maybe it's just this generation that's the problem. Every site will have its Hip-Hop lovers unfortunately.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

I think people are just teasing you with that thing about metal sucking. Not that you don't deserve it . Paraphrasing most answers in the "I hate beethoven" thread, hiphop is doing just fine, you can hate it all you want, but it ain't losing any sleep over it .


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

jrmcmichael said:


> I dislike it... Why you ask?? Well lets see.. The beat of most of it is terrible. Its to busy... The lyrics are almost always poorly written and are incredibly vulgar, violent, sexist and just plain offensive. And the worst part of it... It is everywhere.. I don't know whats wrong with the world that they like that nonsense dribble.


Lots and lots of advertisement plus a bit of peer pressure (as in "you are not cool if you don't listen to real street music").

Personally, I could tolerate rap and even find some of it OK before I discovered classical music for myself.. Now that my ears are opened to the real beauty... no way!


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I just don't understand. I love both genres (metal and classical) so much. They have way more in common with each other. Hip-Hop is far different and stands for something totally different and yet many find that better? Maybe it's just this generation that's the problem. Every site will have its Hip-Hop lovers unfortunately.


Are you annoyed that people like hip-hop?

What do you think hip-hop "stands" for?

You think an entire generation has a problem just because they like a certain type of music?


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Are you annoyed that people like hip-hop?
> 
> What do you think hip-hop "stands" for?
> 
> You think an entire generation has a problem just because they like a certain type of music?


You know what Hip-Hop stands for. The streets. The dark side of life. A place where I would worry for my life if I ever visited. The lyrics clearly show that to. I'm against everything that it stands for.


----------



## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> You know what Hip-Hop stands for. The streets. The dark side of life. A place where I would worry for my life if I ever visited. The lyrics clearly show that to. I'm against everything that it stands for.


Because metal is so uplifting and illuminating?..


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Jobis said:


> Because metal is so uplifting and illuminating?..
> 
> View attachment 21454


I don't take metal so seriously. It usually doesn't have a culture of its own. Just fans of loud music and want to rock out. But yes it probably has some serious issues as well. Especially Black Metal.


----------



## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I don't take metal so seriously. It usually doesn't have a culture of its own. Just fans of loud music and want to rock out. But yes it probably has some serious issues as well. Especially Black Metal.


So its on the same level of hip hop at least? People can appreciate hip hop without taking it seriously, you can't just say one is 'worse' than the other. Probably the main reason I prefer hip hop is I hate the sound of a distorted electric guitar and someone rapidly hammering a double bass pedal. Plus the metal subculture just makes me think of pasty skinned, long haired teenagers, but then I'm prejudiced I guess.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> You know what Hip-Hop stands for. The streets. The dark side of life. A place where I would worry for my life if I ever visited. The lyrics clearly show that to. I'm against everything that it stands for.


But in a lot of hip-hop, "the streets" and "dark side of life" isn't glorified. It's rapped about as if it's the rappers outlet to express the struggles in life he feels in that kind of environment, not too dissimilar from classical composers using music to express their struggles in life.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> But in a lot of hip-hop, "the streets" and "dark side of life" isn't glorified. It's rapped about as if it's the rappers outlet to express the struggles in life he feels in that kind of environment, not too dissimilar from classical composers using music to express their struggles in life.


I would say 50/50. Some of it is like yeah I'm gangsta. I'm tough. Others are like this really sucks. Gotta get out. Some of it is about getting women to take their clothes off. To me, it really rubs me the wrong way.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Jobis said:


> Because metal is so uplifting and illuminating?..
> 
> View attachment 21454


Hah, Varg. Insane as he is I almost feel sorry for him now though, getting arrested for nothing.



> You know what Hip-Hop stands for. The streets. The dark side of life. A place where I would worry for my life if I ever visited. The lyrics clearly show that to. I'm against everything that it stands for.


You don't have to support a gangsta lifestyle to appreciate good hip-hop. Most of the hip-hop I listen to is critical of it (except NWA but I can't take them seriously at all anyway) but just tries to portray the reality. A lot of the 90's stuff like the first albums of Mobb Deep, Nas and Jeru the Damaja capture the dark gritty atmosphere so well, that's what I like it for.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I would say 50/50. Some of it is like yeah I'm gangsta. I'm tough. Others are like this really sucks. Gotta get out. Some of it is about getting women to take their clothes off. To me, it really rubs me the wrong way.


Well, I agree with you that I don't like the misogynistic or egotistical lyrics in rap. That's why I don't listen to rap that is misogynistic or egotistical for the most part.

By the way, I can't think of a single lyric-based type of music that you couldn't find misogyny and egotism within.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

I think the egotistic tough guy posturing is the best criticism of hip-hop, there is a lot of it (didn't rap develop through freestyle rap battles? I think that's the cause of it but I don't know my hip-hop history). I can't really think of much that is misogynistic/'about getting women to take their clothes off' but that may be because I don't get my rap from MTV.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Schubussy said:


> I think the egotistic tough guy posturing is the best criticism of hip-hop, there is a lot of it.


Ya. That aspect of it is something that gets really tiring to me too and it actually keeps me from liking a lot of stuff I might otherwise like.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Jobis said:


> Because metal is so uplifting and illuminating?..


As far as I remember, the original topic of the thread was not "hip hop vs. metal" but "why do you dislike hip hop?". Metal and Varg Vikernes are sort of irrelevant to it.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Personally I appreciate the construction of a good beat, I'm not particularly fond of the trap "808 + two note melody" thing, but a really well constructed sample based beat is a thing of beauty.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

I love black metal and hip-hop, black metal has the dark Scandinavian forest atmosphere (but also stupid facepaint), hip-hop has the dark inner city atmosphere (but also egotism). Guess I just like stuff with a dark atmosphere.

But hey at least Varg can walk the walk, I don't see many gangsta rappers burning down police stations.


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Personally I appreciate the construction of a good beat, I'm not particularly fond of the trap "808 + two note melody" thing, but a really well constructed sample based beat is a thing of beauty.


A good beat is essential!


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm not too fond of percussion. Another reason I guess other than the many reasons already mentioned in this thread. Btw there's a thread for those that do like hip-hop. Use that one.


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Every site will have its Hip-Hop lovers unfortunately.


I find this statement kinda problematic Neo. Its unfortunate that people who like hip-hop are here? Sounds like an attack on people and their tastes. This sounds kinda personal to me. I thought we were supposed to just talk about the music? Why do you have to bring people's tastes into it? Why are you breaking the ToS?


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> I find this statement kinda problematic Neo. Its unfortunate that people who like hip-hop are here? Sounds like an attack on people and their tastes. This sounds kinda personal to me. I thought we were supposed to just talk about the music? Why do you have to bring people's tastes into it? Why are you breaking the ToS?


I was just saying that it's too bad I got different tastes than most of society. No attack on people here. More like an alienation of society due to our differences.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

Why is it such a problem that people have different tastes to you? (or should I say, why is it such a problem that people like what you hate?). Having different tastes it's not per se alienating.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

niv said:


> Why is it such a problem that people have different tastes to you? (or should I say, why is it such a problem that people like what you hate?). Having different tastes it's not per se alienating.


Why is it such a problem I express my displeasure for music types? What if most of the world listened to something you hated. Wouldn't that annoy you?


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I was just saying that it's too bad I got different tastes than most of society. No attack on people here. More like an alienation of society due to our differences.


Uh, I'm sure there are plenty of metal fans in the world.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Why is it such a problem I express my displeasure for music types? What if most of the world listened to something you hated. Wouldn't that annoy you?


Nothing is wrong with expressing displeasure, but there's a difference between "I don't like hip-hop" and "hip-hop is crap." How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in?


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Nothing is wrong with expressing displeasure, but there's a difference between "I don't like hip-hop" and "hip-hop is crap." How many more times do I need to tell you this before it sinks in?


There's nothing wrong with either one. Except with the explicit language showing. Junk would be the better term.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

violadude said:


> Uh, I'm sure there are plenty of metal fans in the world.


Thank God for that. But I think we are outnumbered by Hip-Hop fans.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> There's nothing wrong with either one. Except with the explicit language showing. Junk would be the better term.


If you really can't see the difference then I give up. Keep digging holes for yourself, I'm not going to bother helping you crawl back out of them any more


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> If you really can't see the difference then I give up. Keep digging holes for yourself, I'm not going to bother helping you crawl back out of them any more


You've helped me?


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> Why is it such a problem I express my displeasure for music types? What if most of the world listened to something you hated. Wouldn't that annoy you?


No.

Well, actually, when I was younger, that used to happen. Then I realized the problem was me.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> You've helped me?


I have sincerely tried to give you as many chances to rectify the situations you get yourself into in these threads as possible, I did it when we were talking about women, gays, hip-hop, modern music and in many other discussions where you've come under fire after making certain bold statements. Considering that I am sometimes a woman, that I am gay or at least bisexual, that I do see merit in hip-hop and that I love modern music, I think I was being awfully nice to you, even while others who perhaps had less personal stake in the matter were flipping out at what you were saying. I didn't attack you outright, I instead explained why what you were saying was either wrong or poorly worded to try and get you to see the error of your ways and improve your ability to engage in serious discussion here, to up your game, if you like, apparently to no avail because we keep having this conversation, I really wish we didn't have to. As I have said above, I won't be bothering any longer because I don't see the point in giving myself a headache just to get you out of trouble.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> I have sincerely tried to give you as many chances to rectify the situations you get yourself into in these threads as possible, I did it when we were talking about women, gays, hip-hop, modern music and in many other discussions where you've come under fire after making certain bold statements. Considering that I am sometimes a woman, that I am gay or at least bisexual, that I do see merit in hip-hop and that I love modern music, I think I was being awfully nice to you, even while others who perhaps had less personal stake in the matter were flipping out at what you were saying. I didn't attack you outright, I instead explained why what you were saying was either wrong or poorly worded to try and get you to see the error of your ways and improve your ability to engage in serious discussion here, to up your game, if you like, apparently to no avail because we keep having this conversation, I really wish we didn't have to. As I have said above, I won't be bothering any longer because I don't see the point in giving myself a headache just to get you out of trouble.


I'm sure you held back because it is against the ToS to attack another poster personally. All you've done is criticize me since I've been here. I don't see that as helping. So what that we have different interests.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Wow, this crap's still going here?

I like some rap because it reminds of the reason I like a lot of punk rock or jazz.

I dislike a lot of rap because it reminds me of what I hate about modern pop music.

It's a pretty broad genre. 

You're allowed to hate whatever you want, but if you go into a french fry thread and say french fries suck, you might get some people calling you a poopyface or something. That's just how things work.


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Jobis said:


> Because metal is so uplifting and illuminating?..
> 
> View attachment 21454


For all the goofy theatrics involved, Burzum is absolutely uplifting. The central theme of Varg's work is ancient transcendent values.

A capital R racist can create interesting art because the world isn't black and white.


----------



## Fermat (Jul 26, 2013)

I find hip-hop incredibly repetitive and boring. With regard to music, there just isn't much that is interesting there. And the lyrics are often poor, violent, and hateful. It's not for me.


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't care about lyrics. I don't even understand half of what they're saying. And yet I enjoy a lot of rap (not hip-hop, the name for the whole culture - including rap, breakdance, etc.). Great music can be achieved in many ways - great writing, interesting sound, awesome flow, groove or whatever. If it's so important, you can divide it to "sophisticated music" and "fun music". But why limiting yourself to only one of them? I mean how can you not enjoy this? Or perhaps this great Rachmaninoff sample.


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Pennypacker said:


> I don't care about lyrics. I don't even understand half of what they're saying. And yet I enjoy a lot of rap (not hip-hop, the name for the whole culture - including rap, breakdance, etc.). Great music can be achieved in many ways - great writing, interesting sound, awesome flow, groove or whatever. If it's so important, you can divide it to "sophisticated music" and "fun music". But why limiting yourself to only one of them? I mean how can you not enjoy this? Or perhaps this great Rachmaninoff sample.


good examples 

rfghfghfg


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Pennypacker said:


> I don't care about lyrics. I don't even understand half of what they're saying. And yet I enjoy a lot of rap (not hip-hop, the name for the whole culture - including rap, breakdance, etc.). Great music can be achieved in many ways - great writing, interesting sound, awesome flow, groove or whatever. If it's so important, you can divide it to "sophisticated music" and "fun music". But why limiting yourself to only one of them? I mean how can you not enjoy this Or perhaps this great Rachmaninoff sample.


Exactly!

I have all of these pieces on my phone and i listen to them at least once a week.


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

Actually it wasn't one of those "just listen to whatever you want" arguments (although yeah, listen to whatever the hell you want), I think you can evaluate music. But rap can be as creative as a classical piece, just in other fields than the writing itself. 
Personally I can't stand Lil Wayne or 50 cent, but **** me right?


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Pennypacker said:


> Actually it wasn't one of those "just listen to whatever you want" arguments (although yeah, listen to whatever the hell you want), I think you can evaluate music. But rap can be as creative as a classical piece, just in other fields than the writing itself.
> *Personally I can't stand Lil Wayne or 50 cent, but god bless me right?*


Yes. Definitely! I don't like them either 

................


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Pennypacker said:


> Actually it wasn't one of those "just listen to whatever you want" arguments (although yeah, listen to whatever the hell you want), I think you can evaluate music. But rap can be as creative as a classical piece, just in other fields than the writing itself.
> Personally I can't stand Lil Wayne or 50 cent, but **** me right?


You know, it their swag, their energy, their vibe and charisma why i like them and their music.
Even compared rest of the genre Lil wayne's music mostly has very poor lyrics but its his swag and vibe which makes it awesome.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

jani said:


> You know, it their swag, their energy, their vibe and charisma why i like them and their music.
> Even compared rest of the genre Lil wayne's music mostly has very poor lyrics but its his swag and vibe which makes it awesome.


No. Just no. Wait a second. No.  If you meant charisma as in their creative ability on making you irritated, they succeeded. It is horrible, horrible music.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

You're right neoshredder. It's horrible music! But it's all right, you'll see, Jani is just a masochist.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

niv said:


> You're right neoshredder. It's horrible music! But it's all right, you'll see, Jani is just a masochist.


Sorry i can't show you the pictures i have taken about my saturday activities since this a family forum.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

I can't see how anyone that likes psychedelic rock wouldn't appreciate this


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

jani said:


> Sorry i can't show you the pictures i have taken about my saturday activities since this a family forum.


I'd rather be a virgin than listen to that music. I don't care if that is the type of music that drives girls into the mood. Too bad we aren't in the 80's. Back then it was the guitar that drove girls wild.


----------



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I HATE it.......................


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I'd rather be a virgin than listen to that music. I don't care if that is the type of music that drives girls into the mood. Too bad we aren't in the 80's. Back then it was the guitar that drove girls wild.


Cocaine was also much easier to acquire *and* I could wear my beautiful pastel suits and be the height of fashion. Let's all go back to the '80s!


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Cocaine was also much easier to acquire *and* I could wear my beautiful pastel suits and be the height of fashion. Let's all go back to the '80s!


Sounds alright to me minus the cocaine. That's another thing that annoys me about people nowadays. The 80's were unique and yet people feel the need to put it down as being bad.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> I'd rather be a virgin than listen to that music. I don't care if that is the type of music that drives girls into the mood. Too bad we aren't in the 80's. Back then it was the guitar that drove girls wild.


Maybe I am different from those girls who rap is supposed to drive wild, but I would be extremely suspicious of a man who regularly listens to texts about pimps and "hos", and this whole "street gangsta subculture". One's entertainment does tend to influence one's view of the world, you know.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Again, I have hundreds of hip-hop albums, none of them refer to 'pimps and hos'. Do you judge all rock on Nickleback too? Or all metal on Limp Bizkit?


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> I'd rather be a virgin than listen to that music. I don't care if that is the type of music that drives girls into the mood. Too bad we aren't in the 80's. Back then it was the guitar that drove girls wild.


....you know Jani was joking, right?


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

niv said:


> ....you know Jani was joking, right?


My response still stands. Yes Hip-Hop is easy to dance to which a lot of girls like. But my dislike towards the genre overwhelms the possible action of meeting some of these girls. No interest in going to the clubs.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

Ok man. I'm just puzzled because you brought the "drives girls into the mood" factor out of thin air.

Btw, the fact that many people on here don't dance (or can't dance) to me explains why they don't get dance music... is meant to be danced after all.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

niv said:


> Ok man. I'm just puzzled because you brought the "drives girls into the mood" factor out of thin air.
> 
> Btw, the fact that many people on here don't dance (or can't dance) to me explains why they don't get dance music... is meant to be danced after all.


I should've mentioned the dancing part first. As dancing does get you in the mood. All that Bump n' Grindin'. Uh R. Kelly song reference.


----------



## jamallax89 (May 20, 2013)

I like hip hop. Its makes me refresh


----------



## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I dislike a lot of it, but not because "it's not music blah blah", but because I just find it boring. I need there to be more to music than just talking over a beat with a simplistic tune here and there.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Tristan said:


> I dislike a lot of it, but not because "it's not music blah blah", but because I just find it boring. I need there to be more to music than just talking over a beat with a simplistic tune here and there.


Well as long as you dislike it. That's the most important thing.


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

Tristan said:


> I dislike a lot of it, but not because "it's not music blah blah", but because I just find it boring. I need there to be more to music than just talking over a beat with a simplistic tune here and there.


Is this simplistic to you?


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Ooh. Del the funky homosapien.


----------



## classicalguy (Aug 7, 2013)

The horrible swishy swash crap and the beat, its just not my thing.


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

classicalguy said:


> The horrible swishy swash crap and the beat, its just not my thing.


That is so brilliantly vague I'm going to start using it as an argument against any music I don't like.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> That is so brilliantly vague I'm going to start using it as an argument against any music I don't like.


Nah it works mainly with Hip-Hop.


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> That is so brilliantly vague I'm going to start using it as an argument against any music I don't like.


Oh, swishy swash!

..........


----------



## maestro57 (Mar 26, 2013)

I do listen to some hip-hop. For me, the song MUST have good accompanying music (a good beat with a tune) to go with all the rapping, and the rapping itself must have creative and syncopated rhythms and accents (in a dynamics sense).

The latest Jay Z song "Holy Grail" featuring Justin Timberlake is completely do-able for me as it exhibits the criteria above. Other examples off the top of my head that are similar: Kanye West - All of the Lights; Kid Cudi - Persuit of Happiness.

But the hardcore hip-hop of 2Pac or Notorious BIG or Dr. Dre is toooooo "gangster" and intense for me.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

maestro57 said:


> The latest Jay Z song "Holy Grail" featuring Justin Timberlake is completely do-able for me as it exhibits the criteria above.


Someone is rapping about the Holy Grail? :lol:

Now, here is what I truly hate about hip-hop, and it is not really about the music, more about the subculture that goes with it, but the music and the subculture usually come as a package, don't they?

















You can see these things everywhere there is a wall to paint on, and I think anyone who is caught doing them, should be made to repaint the whole wall at his own cost (or at the cost of their parents, since most of those "taggers" are kids who can't find what to do with their time).


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Now, here is what I truly hate about hip-hop, and it is not really about the music, more about the subculture that goes with it, but the music and the subculture usually come as a package, don't they?


No not really. My life has nothing to do with the subculture that surrounds 95% of the music I listen to.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

violadude said:


> No not really. My life has nothing to do with the subculture that surrounds 95% of the music I listen to.


I said "usually", not "in every single case".


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

Well, subculture usually means a small portion of the culture. So every graffiti punk listens to rap (that is also not the case, but nevermind) but not the other way around. Also, the discussion is on the music, anything around it shouldn't matter. Kind of like Wagner and antisemitism.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Pennypacker said:


> Well, subculture usually means a small portion of the culture. So every graffiti punk listens to rap (that is also not the case, but nevermind) but not the other way around. Also, the discussion is on the music, anything around it shouldn't matter. Kind of like Wagner and antisemitism.


To me, rap is based on subculture more than any other genre. It's hard to avoid that part of it. Now there are exceptions with groups that make a point to discuss other things that aren't about the ghetto. Like Rage Against the Machine and Beastie Boys. They were cool and not about talking about the thug life.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

What's so wrong with people wanting to talk about the realities of their life?


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> To me, rap is based on subculture more than any other genre. It's hard to avoid that part of it. Now there are exceptions with groups that make a point to discuss other things that aren't about the ghetto. Like Rage Against the Machine and Beastie Boys. They were cool and not about talking about the thug life.


I might have agreed with you if we were having this discussion in the early 90's. But rap is not only gangsta rap anymore, and among its listeners you'll find rich white boys, all sorts of geeks, and classical fans as you see here.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

niv said:


> What's so wrong with people wanting to talk about the realities of their life?


Well, maybe the fact that some peope who are good citizens, not gangstas, who do not live in a ghetto, who earn their living by work, who pay taxes (some of which is spent on restoring the public property that the grafftti punks have worked on), and who enjoy skilfully crafted, melodious, beautiful music, want nothing to do with that lifestyle and with the music that propagates it, and that is often imposed on them (when blasted out of car windows, for example) against their will.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

Ok, got it. Let's them simply have no culture of their own, or better yet, let's have them just enjoy white people music!

I know, it's annoying to have music blasted at you out of car windows. Mindless graffiti is idiotic. But I sense something else in your comment. You seem almost *angered* by the fact that there are people that rather dance to non melodious non beautiful non skillfully crafted music that relates to them and dares to speak about the dangerous reality they live in. 

It's easy to say "I work, I pay taxes, I don't live in a ghetto". That applies to me too. But in my experience, often people who work, pays taxes and does not live in a ghetto more often than not have been born outside the ghetto and miss the fact that were they born inside the ghetto, it wouldn't seem that friggin easy to leave the lifestyle. It's easy to think that it all boils down to ourselves as individuals instead of looking at systemic causes especially when we're on the good side of the system.

Don't get me wrong. I don't like pimps, I don't like the patriarchal, misogynist ideas that some (but definitely not all) brands of hip hop carry. But were that music erased from the face of the earth, and those things wouldn't dissapear. They music is a reflection of reality, not the cause itself.

Besides, you seem to really like to conflate every bad thing together. Not everybody that listens to hip hop does graffiti, not everybody glorifies crime (though not always that's spelled out in big bold letter), not everybody blasts it from the car windows.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Well I think I would want a little less reflection of reality. Especially with those living on the streets and do bad things. It's a sad reality. Best to get out of that situation asap. Even worse with those that flaunt it. Booming their speakers loud in their cars. It scares me these types of loud people.


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

The thing is though, that where I am from (and all over the world, actually), it is the normal, non-criminal, non-ghetto, white kids who become fans of this music in crowds and start doing graffiti and pretending to be gangstas, because it is considered "cool" and the rappers become the new "ideal" of a successful person.


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> The thing is though, that where I am from (and all over the world, actually), it is the normal, non-criminal, non-ghetto, white kids who become fans of this music in crowds and start doing graffiti and pretending to be gangstas, because it is considered "cool" and the rappers become the new "ideal" of a successful person.


You know only minority of rap music fans go and do graffiti's, saying that all rap music fans are wana be gangstas and just mess up public property is like saying that all muslism are terrorists or like saying that all immigrants just want to mooch of countries wellfare.


----------



## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

All I know is, my friends are rich white boys and they listen to rap music that is about life in the ghetto, selling drugs, using drugs, "hos", flashy cars, etc. I know there is better hip hop out there (and they sometimes listen to the better stuff too), but the subculture (one that they really have no real connect to) is definitely part of their interest in the music.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

jani said:


> You know only minority of rap music fans go and do graffiti's, saying that all rap music fans are wana be gangstas and just mess up public property is like saying that all muslism are terrorists or like saying that all immigrants just want to mooch of countries wellfare.


Or that all classical music fans are middle-aged-to-elderly rich white men and their wives.


----------



## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Tristan said:


> All I know is, my friends are rich white boys and they listen to rap music that is about life in the ghetto


Because a lot of rap is about the realities of living in a ghetto, you don't have to live in a ghetto yourself to get it. I watch The Wire too, I don't limit myself to shows set in the suburbs..

edit
This sounds absolutely horrible though
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23629554

I listened to one of the rappers performing, dreadful rap/pop stuff.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Well, maybe the fact that some peope who are good citizens, not gangstas, who do not live in a ghetto, who earn their living by work, who pay taxes (some of which is spent on restoring the public property that the grafftti punks have worked on), and who enjoy skilfully crafted, melodious, beautiful music, want nothing to do with that lifestyle and with the music that propagates it, and that is often imposed on them (when blasted out of car windows, for example) against their will.


First world problems. .....................................


----------



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Well, maybe the fact that some peope who are good citizens, not gangstas, who do not live in a ghetto, who earn their living by work, who pay taxes (some of which is spent on restoring the public property that the grafftti punks have worked on), and who enjoy skilfully crafted, melodious, beautiful music, want nothing to do with that lifestyle and with the music that propagates it, and that is often imposed on them (when blasted out of car windows, for example) against their will.


LOL. Poor thing! You must really have it awful.


----------



## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

LAMESTREAM RAP IS CRAP MUSIC ,real hip-hop has meaning to to it like the older rap music.Graffitti is not just spray paint on the wall some of it is real art.


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I don't take metal so seriously. It usually doesn't have a culture of its own.


Maybe the mainstream hard rock that is passed off as metal, but a lot of metal (especially Finnish black metal) is practically a cult.


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> There's nothing wrong with either one. Except with the explicit language showing. Junk would be the better term.


how is criticizing vulgarity (with an obvious omission to slurs) even relevant to any sort of conversation about music


----------



## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> Or that all classical music fans are middle-aged-to-elderly rich white men and their wives.


Personally I am neither rich nor poor, but even if I wanted to choose my music only based on that kind of associations, without considering the qualities of the music itself (which obviously would be a wrong approach), I would rather choose music that is associated with wealth, class, education and intellect, not with poverty and thuggery. And if I were very poor, I would not want that fact to be drummed into my head even through music, I'd rather choose music that would help me forget it.


----------



## violadude (May 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Personally I am neither rich nor poor, but even if I wanted to choose my music only based on that kind of associations, without considering the qualities of the music itself (which obviously would be a wrong approach), I would rather choose music that is associated with wealth, class, education and intellect, not with poverty and thuggery. And if I were very poor, I would not want that fact to be drummed into my head even through music, I'd rather choose music that would help me forget it.


Curious how you associate wealth with intellect. There are lots of rappers that have/had a secret intellectual side ya know.


----------



## Schumann (Aug 12, 2013)

Same old trivial sounds... Fabricated music. Dislike it very much.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

I would be weary of associating wealth with "class", at least how I view "class". In fact in my own experience wealthy people tend to lack empathy (which is something really classy in my book  )


----------



## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

violadude said:


> Curious how you associate wealth with intellect. There are lots of rappers that have/had a secret intellectual side ya know.


There are different kinds of intellect, but when it comes to business& understanding todays youth culture, specially these rappers are miles ahead of any classical musician today.

For example Jay z, 50 cent, P diddy all have loads of businesses + their career as a entertainer.
They understand how to use media in order to attract attention and how to use that attention for their benefit etc...
You don't get a net worth of 200-500 million dollars by accident.

They are very smart on their own way and ambitious.

Me myself when i just listen to music i prefer classical over rap any day, but linking a style of music to lack of intellegence is just something i don't understand.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Personally I am neither rich nor poor, but even if I wanted to choose my music only based on that kind of associations, without considering the qualities of the music itself (which obviously would be a wrong approach), I would rather choose music that is associated with wealth, class, education and intellect, not with poverty and thuggery. And if I were very poor, I would not want that fact to be drummed into my head even through music, I'd rather choose music that would help me forget it.


Interesting. The music of the "lower classes" tends not to let them forget that they're poor or oppressed or living in a world where crimes happen. "Aspirational" music is mainly of the "I'll go to heaven when I'm dead" variety. Seems like poor folk have a different view of the purpose of their music than you do.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

This thread was meant to bring together all of those that don't like hip-hop. There is another thread with "like" in it. Wish those would use that thread instead to support hip-hop.


----------



## niv (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't know why it worries you so much neoshredder. There are so many threads stating opinions where people state counter opinions.


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Yes, how dare those hip-hop defenders drive around in the anti-hip-hop neighborhood, with their windows down and their defense of hip-hop blaring! Spraying their opinions all over this pristine thread! Coming in here with their lack of dislike, who do these people think they are?


----------



## Pennypacker (Jul 30, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> This thread was meant to bring together all of those that don't like hip-hop. There is another thread with "like" in it. Wish those would use that thread instead to support hip-hop.


You mean just a thread without any arguments where people can share their rap hating stories? Yeah, that sounds fun. Besides, you know how this music gets us all excited about turf wars. "Like" side, *****!


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't see why you need to disrupt this thread. About as annoying as disrupting Composers threads. I guess my only hope is to add everyone that dislikes Hip-Hop to a group. Since it is basically hopeless to avoid the hip-hop lovers in any thread on this forum.


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> I don't see why you need to disrupt this thread. About as annoying as disrupting Composers threads. I guess my only hope is to add everyone that dislikes Hip-Hop to a group. Since it is basically hopeless to avoid the hip-hop lovers in any thread on this forum.


oh, okay?

seen in the "like hip-hop" thread:



neoshredder said:


> Worst genre ever.





neoshredder said:


> Hip-Hop is only good for comedy purposes.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Welll I let it slide early on in this thread. But the trolling has gone over the top in my thread. And btw those comments came before this thread of gold existed. I figured it wouldn't be nice to keep attacking it in a pro hip-hop thread. So I made a thread to fix my need to post in that thread anymore. Brilliant plan in theory. But unfortunately, the hip-hop fans can't let me enjoy my thread.


----------



## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

yeah, whatever, man. What Crudblud wrote was right: you're very staunch about your attitude towards hip hop, women and gays in music, etc., and seem to be unconsciously deadset on digging yourself into hypocritical holes. The last thing I'll say on the subject of hip-hop music and respect is that this entire thread hasn't been just bashing the role of the music for music's sake--instead, many people have been saying that they're actually turned off by the content because it makes them uncomfortable. You can have your own opinion, sure, but--given the direction music is going on--it will increasingly become harder and harder to support that opinion. Humanism has now become an even broader term, and now doesn't require people to disguise their life in "poetic euphemisms"--instead, the real poetry is the real situation. This isn't just a recent phenomenon, this isn't just hip-hop music, this has been going on since the early/mid-20th century with composers as well (John Cage--another composer you are notable for being rude about).

Making a thread asking who dislikes hip-hop _is_ going to incite argument.

There's too little time to actually hate things like this. Why even bother? Let it be and appreciate the picture of music from a broader stance. You may find that less people will dislike your internet presence, and you'll be able to enjoy yourself more.

That's it, though. No use in arguing further about any of this.


----------



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

If that's it, are you done posting in this thread?


----------



## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Temporarily closed for repairs ... 

If these personal attacks do not stop on the open boards, *permanent bans* are imminent.


----------

