# Has dance changed your perception of music?



## mud (May 17, 2012)

I found that I liked some pieces only after watching a dancer interpret them, then I always heard them in that special way the dancer illustrated.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Dance doesn't change my perception of music, but it certainly informed it. I watch ballet and contemporary dance (in late February and early March I will hardly post at all because I am involved with the Dance Umbrella, South Africa's and Africa's biggest contemporary dance festival). This shaped how I think of certain types of music. I would never listen to music like Giselle (Adophe Adam) or The Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake (both by Tchaikovsky) outside a ballet context. I am incapable of relaxing to those pieces. I see the steps before me.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

I would say that watching a performance by musicians is informative, while the dancing personifies it.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Nope, not for me. I never really understood most forms of dancing, particularly in the old classical/ballet styles. I don't know, it always just seemed kind of strange and pointless to me lol.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

I think contemporary dance can be stranger, to the point where they just stand there or roll around on the floor in and uncoordinated way. What is that about? It can also be interpretive and more specific to the music than ballet, but good dancing is harder to find than good music. Together, good music and choreography can be greater than the sum of its parts, as with cinematography.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Contemporary dance can be very strange indeed. The vast majority of new contemporary dance works are only every performed for one or two seasons, then they are 'lost'. The 'oldest' contemporary dance work I have seen recently is a 1999 piece by Robyn Orlin (a South African choreographer now living in France). It felt dated and I had to put myself back in time in order to appreciate it.

Here's a review of that piece for anyone who wants to read it. It doesn't mention the music.  http://www.artlink.co.za/news_article.htm?contentID=29819


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

It is nice to see dancers accompany the musicians. I would be more likely to go to a concert if they included dancers in the interpretation. Or the conductor could dance, that would be funny.

You know, that's probably how the ballet got its start. I think we need to go full circle with that.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

mud said:


> I found that I liked some pieces only after watching a dancer interpret them, then I always heard them in that special way the dancer illustrated.


Yes, and DON'T tip them with singles. They hate that.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Not at all, and I've attended a fair amount, from the most strict classical, (Leningrad Kirov) to the newest contemporary, as it is a form I enjoy.

I am one of those who take music as an 'absolute.' For me it is something of a direct communication, with a meaning of its own which is untranslatable into any verbal language or other literal or pictorial medium: I've have never had those associations connected to it.

I think music doesn't want for or need any of those other imaginings to make it clearer. Many, however, do feel more connected if they 'make up a story' or visualize something connected to a piece, or for them the piece directly stimulates those thoughts.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Not at all, and I've attended a fair amount, from the most strict classical, (Leningrad Kirov) to the newest contemporary, as it is a form I enjoy.
> 
> I am one of those who take music as an 'absolute.' For me it is something of a direct communication, with a meaning of its own which is untranslatable into any verbal language or other literal or pictorial medium: I've have never had those associations connected to it.
> 
> I think music doesn't want for or need any of those other imaginings to make it clearer. Many, however, do feel more connected if they 'make up a story' or visualize something connected to a piece, or for them the piece directly stimulates those thoughts.


Yes, I can understand you point about absolute music not needing dance to interpret it. Dance, however, does need music (I find those dance pieces that take place in silence somewhat stressful). Regardless of what I have said about not listening to the great ballets outside of the ballet theatre because the music has dance associations rather than music ones, this is not true of pieces of music which are used in choreography in other contexts.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I guess you'll have to add me to the list of non-dancers when it comes to classical music. Ballet hasn't grabbed me yet, and it kind of bothers me but not enough to do something about it.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I never considered Ballet except as a format of music. But recently I got the bluray of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet by the Royal Ballet and it blew me away. Not so much for the music, which I already appreciated from CDs, but for the drama. The acting was phenominal. Ballet is like opera. It adds a dramatic dimension to music.


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

Olias said:


> Yes, and DON'T tip them with singles. They hate that.


That does go well with classical, such as the ride of the valkyrie (a lap dance).


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

... and beethoven goes burlesque :clap:


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Here's something that might interest you:


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## mud (May 17, 2012)

The immovable object and the irresistible force. 

How about mozart?


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

bigshot said:


> I never considered Ballet except as a format of music. But recently I got the bluray of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet by the Royal Ballet and it blew me away. Not so much for the music, which I already appreciated from CDs, but for the drama. The acting was phenominal. Ballet is like opera. It adds a dramatic dimension to music.


I love Romeo and Juliet, the ballet. The death scene does drag a bit though. This was pointed out to me by my (then) twelve year old niece who was heard to mutter, "Oh die already!" during the last scene.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

StevenOBrien said:


> Here's something that might interest you:


Interesting concept. The dance didn't seem to develop; they just went around in circles. Is that the idea they are drawing from the piece itself, conflict with no resolution? Also, it reminded me of an Apache dance.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

StevenOBrien said:


> Here's something that might interest you:


Ridiculous.

Really, the idea that this is an "intepretation" of the music is absurd. The idea that any post hoc choreography has, in some way, the ability to define and illustrate what a piece of music "means" is just a line spun by those who have run out of ballet music to dance to.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

It usually changes it in a negative way. Music Videos ruined music imo. Music relying too much on the beat gets rather annoying.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Ridiculous.
> 
> Really, the idea that this is an "intepretation" of the music is absurd. The idea that any post hoc choreography has, in some way, the ability to define and illustrate what a piece of music "means" is just a line spun by those who have run out of ballet music to dance to.


I don't think it is meant as an interpretation of the music. My guess is that the choreographer has picked an incident in the life of Beethoven and has chosen some music from his oeuvre which allows her to portray that incident. I thought it was very interesting choreography, capturing the conflict without ever insinuating homo-eroticism which is often a problem when choreographing contact dance between two men. This is especially true if there is affection as an underlying emotion in the dance.

So the music is incidental to the narrative. It works with the narrative and exquisitely with the choreography. That point at which the notes are held and Carl is swung around Beethoven's hips is almost orgasmic.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> Interesting concept. The dance didn't seem to develop; they just went around in circles. Is that the idea they are drawing from the piece itself, conflict with no resolution? Also, it reminded me of an Apache dance.


Yes, I think the concept was conflict without a satisfactory resolution. The snippet really left me with a desire to see the whole work.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

Stargazer said:


> Nope, not for me. I never really understood most forms of dancing, particularly in the old classical/ballet styles. I don't know, it always just seemed kind of strange and pointless to me lol.


Exactly. I just don't get dancing. It feels like it takes away from the music to me. Of course that's just my own perception, I realize that it's a valid art form and all.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Moira said:


> Yes, I can understand you point about absolute music not needing dance to interpret it. Dance, however, does need music (I find those dance pieces that take place in silence somewhat stressful). Regardless of what I have said about not listening to the great ballets outside of the ballet theatre because the music has dance associations rather than music ones, this is not true of pieces of music which are used in choreography in other contexts.


Petrushka is A Perfect Ballet - The score seems to generate the action, animate it, and the staging and choreography seem to to the same to the music, one constantly pointing to and enhancing / amplifying the other. Very few dance scores can claim that


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Petrushka is A Perfect Ballet - The score seems to generate the action, animate it, and the staging and choreography seem to to the same to the music, one constantly pointing to and enhancing / amplifying the other. Very few dance scores can claim that


I need to get Petrushka on DVD.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

However pointless it may seem, dancing is just about as old or older than rudimentary counting systems - like music it is ritualistic and symbolic and is found in sculptural evidence of great antiquity. It was important to the Native Americans particularly of the plains, to the peoples of the subcontinent of India, in the cultures of the Indonesian island system and the continent of Africa to mention only a few locales around the globe where dance has figured strongly. Dance ritual often preceded the hunt, the battle or the planting. French Ballet, certainly from the time of Louis XIV, and its descendants are merely the art of the human body in motion with music and seem to embrace the desire for flight.



Stargazer said:


> Nope, not for me. I never really understood most forms of dancing, particularly in the old classical/ballet styles. I don't know, it always just seemed kind of strange and pointless to me lol.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I have noticed that art music often evolves from dance music. The Baroque forms that turned into the Classical forms were often dances, and in the Romantic era the waltz went through the same development. Then jazz did in the 20th century, and tango is going that direction. My impression is that the same is true of Indian music, and that in other traditions the music never got far removed from dance. Sometime when I have a keyboard so I can type more easily I will share my very own ridiculous theory of why this happens. Stay tuned!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Wagner made ballet irrelevant circa 1850.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Wagner made ballet irrelevant circa 1850.


I thought Stravinsky fixed that problem.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Wagner made ballet irrelevant circa 1850.





Manxfeeder said:


> I thought Stravinsky fixed that problem.


Bwahahahahah! Oh, he did indeed. I wish, indeed that I had been at the opening night of a ballet by Diagilev starring Nijinski with music by Stravinsky, sets by Picasso and costumes by Coco Chanel.


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