# Seeking personal feedback from GENUINE ORCHESTRA MEMBERS? [Tinnitus]



## SONDEK (Sep 29, 2017)

I noticed that many of those who comment on this forum are genuine orchestra members. That being the case, there is a question I've always wanted to ask...

*Is Tinnitus an inevitable price to be paid by orchestra members?*

I ask the question, because we were recently seated near the front of the Hangzhou Philharmonic Orchestra, who were busy playing their hearts out, through a fantastic program of everyone's orchestral favourites.

[None of those obscure pieces from unknown composers that seem to be so very popular these days...]

Anyways, I found the overall volume during the crescendos almost unbearable - and I wondered how the orchestra members fare, with their precious eardrums just a few meters from the brass and drum sections.

Is Tinnitus for orchestra members just an inevitable given?

If so, that would be a hell of a price to pay for the love of the art.

If not, how is it managed?

Dead curious.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I play in pit bands and pit orchestras, and many players wear earplugs of various qualities. There are some rather expensive ones that allow one to still hear the full spectrum of sound, while dampening the overall volume.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Hearing loss is a definite issue - esp for those musicians on stage who sit directly in front of the trumpets, trombones or percussion....the sound levels can really be incredible...
Orchestras have tried various methods - one was to place large plastic shields to protect the musicians in the direct "line of fire"...I haven't seen these in use much recently...
I know many musicians use high-tech earplugs, which may be the way to go at present..

I played in orchestras - conservatory and professional - for 50+ years - have not suffered hearing loss other than natural aging....but the levels can be really high at times - 
one of my section mates brought a decibel meter on stage when we played Shostakovich Sym #7 - at the great conclusion - with full orchestra, all the brass, extra brass, percussion going wild - he measured us at 119db on stage....


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Not necessarily, but extremely common. Coincidentally, at a rehearsal Tuesday night a trumpet player who has been at it for 50 years mentioned that his tinnitus is getting worse and three other people nearby chimed in with the same thing: a clarinet player, a drummer, and the tuba player. It is preventable: wear ear plugs when you play. Of course, it's really, really hard to do. You misjudge dynamics and you have these head tones that bear no resemblance to your actual sound. When I'm playing bassoon and the orchestra set up has me directly in front of trumpets, trombones, or percussion I wear some custom made plugs that do a good job of blocking sound and preserving some tone quality. If I'm playing percussion I always wear them without exception. But the repeated exposure to loud sounds is a hazard that goes with the business and it's too bad more people aren't informed of it earlier so they can do something. 

Remedies: forget the pills that are supposed to stop ringing; they're snake oil. Hearing aids, properly tuned, have helped a lot of people. The science behind them (the nerve-brain connection) is complicated and those high-end hearing aids are quite expensive.

I have mild tinnitus which hasn't impaired my ability to listen or play. And it gets worse when I ingest certain things: caffeine for example. Most of the time the senses just tune it out and I don't notice it.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> Not necessarily, but extremely common. Coincidentally, at a rehearsal Tuesday night a trumpet player who has been at it for 50 years mentioned that his tinnitus is getting worse and three other people nearby chimed in with the same thing: a clarinet player, a drummer, and the tuba player. It is preventable: wear ear plugs when you play. Of course, it's really, really hard to do. You misjudge dynamics and you have these head tones that bear no resemblance to your actual sound. When I'm playing bassoon and the orchestra set up has me directly in front of trumpets, trombones, or percussion I wear some custom made plugs that do a good job of blocking sound and preserving some tone quality. If I'm playing percussion I always wear them without exception. But the repeated exposure to loud sounds is a hazard that goes with the business and it's too bad more people aren't informed of it earlier so they can do something.
> 
> Remedies: forget the pills that are supposed to stop ringing; they're snake oil. Hearing aids, properly tuned, have helped a lot of people. The science behind them (the nerve-brain connection) is complicated and those high-end hearing aids are quite expensive.
> 
> I have mild tinnitus which hasn't impaired my ability to listen or play. *And it gets worse when I ingest certain things: caffeine for example.* Most of the time the senses just tune it out and I don't notice it.


thank you for mentioning this.

yes, what you put IN your body can affect it, and caffeine is, after all, the low end of the "Speed" spectrum.


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

I read somewhere online that hearing loss is a bigger problem among Classical musicians than Rock musicians.

Hard to believe, but apparently true.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I've heard that, too, and I'd like to see some data to support it. I've often worried about classically trained musicians who spend hours and hours in practice rooms - the sound is so close up and unsparing. But I do know some guys who have been playing in country/western bands for decades and have severe hearing loss.

I've been a headphone listener for a long time - since the early '70s. And yes, I cranked the volume up often. Add to that driving a convertible usually with the top down and I've done a lot of unintended damage. Headphones can be bad, but I wonder how bad those ear buds are and what price people who wear them constantly will be paying down the road.


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## Judas Priest Fan (Apr 27, 2018)

I played trumpet in my high school band. I wonder how loud it was in that relatively small room with the whole band blasting away??

I also shot thousands of rounds of .22 LR. It didn´t seem loud to me at the time. Later I found out online that .22 LR can be as loud as 140 DB 

The trombones were right behind me. I never felt it was too loud when I was young. That´s the problem; when I was young, loud noises were just loud, but they really didn´t bother me. Now (I´m 56) loud noises cause physical pain; I just can´t stand it.

A few years ago, at the last rock concert I attended, I was right in front of the band in a small club. I thought, "maybe it´s not all that loud", and loosend an earplug. BIG mistake! I couldn´t stuff it back in fast enough!

I have only been to 3 live Classical concerts. The first one, I was middle of the hall; it could have been a bit louder for my taste. For the next 2, I was front row center. That´s what I like  It was loud, but not in any way painfull. 

To me, Rock/Metal shows must be very loud, but how can any one take that kind of abuse without going deaf? Especially for the band members, playing night for night at that insane volume?

Now that I´m getting older, I ask myself, what is the sense in playing so loud that your fans go deaf?


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## SONDEK (Sep 29, 2017)

Such great replies. Thank you all.

Such sacrifice in the name of art! Of course, as music-lovers, the joy outweighs the cost.

I have determined that I will wear earplugs next visit to the concert hall - and see how I get on.

Appreciated.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I remember one particularly sonically challenging gig - "Jesus Christ Superstar" in Auditorium Theater, Rochester, NY -

this traveling show came thru a couple of times, drew big audiences....the company brought their own rock band, and their own 1st trumpeter - a 260lb gorilla who never played anything less than fortissimo!!....they hired local union musicians including myself, to fill all the other spots - these were all symphony guys, players used to really pumping out the sound, projecting....no electronics...
However, they decided to mike everybody!! each musician had a microphone placed right near them....geezus, it was loud!!
I was lucky, I was seated in the back of the pit, just behind the banks of huge theater horn speakers that were blasting the sound forth to the audience....the guys at the front edge of the pit were getting it full blast - maybe 10-15 feet from the speakers...I was most fortunate to be out of the direct line of fire....
My friends and acquaintances were all asking me how the show was - I told them - "it's great, you should come....but don't sit any closer than the 20th row!! you'll be blasted to a pulp!!"
In recollection, that's probably the loudest gig I ever played...ran for 2 weeks, then came back for another run a month or so later...


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

SONDEK said:


> *Is Tinnitus an inevitable price to be paid by orchestra members?*


Depends where you're seated. But pay no attention to me, I'm not genuine according to you - I caught tinnitus in a rock band ....


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