# Fugue Attempt in three Voices



## SkillfulHacks (May 2, 2021)

This is my first completed fugue and I'm wondering what people think about It?






P.S: The modulation to D Major was a mistake. At the time I didn't know that you're suppose to go back to the Tonic when the third voice enters...


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Can I ask what counterpoint you have studied? It may be good to find a teacher online who could help you with some basics that you need to learn before you can tackle writing a fugue


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## SkillfulHacks (May 2, 2021)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Can I ask what counterpoint you have studied? It may be good to find a teacher online who could help you with some basics that you need to learn before you can tackle writing a fugue


Mostly self taught for composition. For counterpoint In particular, I have read the wikipedia page on it
and various other wiki on pages related to it. I have also written a couple of small cannons and some Species counterpoint based off the examples on wiki.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

check out the sticky thread at the top of this forum for free online counterpoint texts that are excellent.


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## pkoi (Jun 10, 2017)

I think the piece sounds fine. although I'm not sure is it a full-fledged fugue, at least in a traditional sense. It's not very era-appropriate in some of the choices you've made in terms of harmony and and structure of the fugue. Especially that D-major section sounds a bit off. One reason for it standing out so much is the fact that D-major is a very distant key to C-minor. I would say, that much more common choice would be to modulate from c-minor to either the key of the dominant (G-major) or the relative major (Eb-major). Also, the material presented in that section is not very much related to the theme, especially in the beginning. You start that section with a quite homophonic texture, moving in 8th notes, whereas the theme was mostly built on 16th notes. For example, if you listen to Bach's fugues, the "free" parts, where the theme is not heard, which often occur on the modulatory passages such as yours, Bach often uses similar rhythms and melodic patterns or even parts of the theme to connect that material to the stuff heard earlier.

Also, the theme itself right now is very much tied to the 4/4 beat, meaning you always have emphasis on the strong beats. In fugues, and counterpoint writing in general, it's usually good to avoid this with using tied notes, rhythms crossing the barline etc. to give the theme more "flowing" sound.

However, these are just my remarks with emphasis on what one would traditionally expect when hearing a fugue. I the end you can make it sound whatever you like it to be and not be tied to the traditions the genre imposes.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

SkillfulHacks said:


> Mostly self taught for composition. For counterpoint In particular, I have read the wikipedia page on it
> and various other wiki on pages related to it. I have also written a couple of small cannons and some Species counterpoint based off the examples on wiki.


there are some basics you need - for example the parallel octaves with the 3rd voice. This is not a subject that works well for self-teaching - a teacher would really be necessary

here is a Facebook group for 18th century compositional practices with several online teachers:


https://m.facebook.com/groups/195221033967849/posts/2028759293947338/


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## pkoi (Jun 10, 2017)

A couple of examples on how to avoid too much emphasis on the beat. Bach does a very simple trick in his WTC 1 c-minor fugue: the piece begins after an 8th note rest, avoiding emphasis on the first beat. In stead the emphasis comes on the second beat. Then when other themes enter, he has much more possibilities on creating different kind of rhythmic counterpoint with the voices.






Another example is an older one, and not a fugue, but from Palestrina, a 16th century master of the counterpoint. It's a good example on the possibilities to bring in voices on different beats (In this one it alternates between the first and the third, a major difference). In general, I strongly encourage you to study music of the 16th century composers, such as Palestrina and Lasso. They were the masters of counterpoint and were always able to create kind of everlasting flow of music through clever use of rhythm among other things. I was taught counterpoint from Jeppesen's _Counterpoint_, which fully bases its teachings in the music of Palestrina. It's an old book but I would still recommend it. It should be widely available via Dover and probably from imslp.org as well.


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## SkillfulHacks (May 2, 2021)

mikeh375 said:


> check out the sticky thread at the top of this forum for free online counterpoint texts that are excellent.


I have been reading some of the stuff in your thread, thank you posting it!



pkoi said:


> I think the piece sounds fine. although I'm not sure is it a full-fledged fugue, at least in a traditional sense. It's not very era-appropriate in some of the choices you've made in terms of harmony and and structure of the fugue. Especially that D-major section sounds a bit off. One reason for it standing out so much is the fact that D-major is a very distant key to C-minor. I would say, that much more common choice would be to modulate from c-minor to either the key of the dominant (G-major) or the relative major (Eb-major). Also, the material presented in that section is not very much related to the theme, especially in the beginning. You start that section with a quite homophonic texture, moving in 8th notes, whereas the theme was mostly built on 16th notes. For example, if you listen to Bach's fugues, the "free" parts, where the theme is not heard, which often occur on the modulatory passages such as yours, Bach often uses similar rhythms and melodic patterns or even parts of the theme to connect that material to the stuff heard earlier.
> 
> Also, the theme itself right now is very much tied to the 4/4 beat, meaning you always have emphasis on the strong beats. In fugues, and counterpoint writing in general, it's usually good to avoid this with using tied notes, rhythms crossing the barline etc. to give the theme more "flowing" sound.
> 
> However, these are just my remarks with emphasis on what one would traditionally expect when hearing a fugue. I the end you can make it sound whatever you like it to be and not be tied to the traditions the genre imposes.


I see(hear?) what you mean about the lack of connection and development. I've always had trouble with that in all my music. I never knew that fugues are generally offset from the beat, although in hindsight it makes since, I'll definitively look in to that.



Bwv 1080 said:


> there are some basics you need - for example the parallel octaves with the 3rd voice. This is not a subject that works well for self-teaching - a teacher would really be necessary


hopefully I will go to university in the next year or so and presumably will study counterpoint there. Right now I'm trying to learn as much as can online.


Thank you all for your replies!


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

I particularly like the D major section, precisely because it sounds slightly weird in being unexpected in this context. The whole thing appears slightly anarchic which I much prefer to a boring conventional fugue (which I've never really studied so if you're really looking for advice on how to write a fugue "properly" then you should completely ignore me....)


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