# The composer as conductor.



## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Many composers have tried their hand at conducting some time or another. It is a rare thing when a composer is also a great conductor.
The best of both was,in my humble opinion, Gustav Mahler.
Berlioz was also a conductor as well as Richard Strauss. But both were not considered great in their time. 


Feel free to add to this soon to grow list!

Jim


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

Well, I'll add to the list the already discussed in the "Current Listening" thread:
Copland and Stravinksy.. both made recordings of their works for CBS, and both are extremely worthwhile i believe..
and i would also mention Britten as a more than decent conductor.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Sir Malcom Arnold comes to mind. I don't know his reputation as a composer or conductor either one, but I genarally enjoy his work in both fields. In videos I've seen he comes across as a gentle, tolerant conductor.

Beethoven comes to mind as an example of a composer who should not have tried conducting, though I bet it was fascinating to watch.

[Edit: Sorry, make that Malcolm. I left out an "L."]


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Mendelssohn was reputed to be a good conductor. If i remember correctly it was he who brought Bach back to the masses and made him the popular man that he is today.

Jim


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

handlebar said:


> The best of both was,in my humble opinion, Gustav Mahler.


The quirk I have (which I'm sure you foresaw) was that all we have as records of Mahler's conducting were accounts. While these are certainly very good, also keep in mind that Mahler was literally forced into conducting; he could conduct his own works, true, but he conducted other peoples' music. This is becoming remarkably like the best violinists thread...

I agree that Britten must be on this list as possibly the best. Did Webern ever record? I know he was a conductor of no mean ability; I believe he gave performances of Mahler's 8th after the composers death.

Elgar made some great records, but I have my reservations now about the Enigma Variations. Sometimes it takes a conductor who is a conductor _by profession_ to conduct Elgar effectively, and sometimes Elgar doesn't fully enough rise to the challenge. Don't get me wrong, he has great moments in the violin concerto.

I dunno, there are all the usual suspects: Richard Strauss, Copland, Stravinsky, etc.

Rubbra made a live recording of his 4th symphony in the throes of the second world war. I don't believe this has yet been released, but I'm certainly keeping an eye out for it.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Edward Elgar. AFAiR, he conducted recordings of his symphonies. Also Haydn was conductor, but I have no idea how good he could be.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know whether Elgar rates as a good conductor or not. I have most of the (many) electrical recordings he made of his own work, and although I love listening to them, I find I simply don't know enough to be able to make an objective judgement. My approach is too naive, I guess; I don't really want to question it. I adopt the attitude that this is Elgar, conducting this now, in the room (effectively); this is how he wanted these things to sound. When I've had a longish gap, and return to them, I'm always quite shocked at how fast they seem. No nonsense chaps, let's get on with it, he seems to say.


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## Lang (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, but in the days of the shellac record music was often taken very fast, simply to fit on the requisite number of sides, or discs.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

World Violist said:


> The quirk I have (which I'm sure you foresaw) was that all we have as records of Mahler's conducting were accounts. While these are certainly very good, also keep in mind that Mahler was literally forced into conducting;


Well Mahler was not really forced into conducting per se. He wanted to be a composer first but knew that his pathway needed a stepping stone and conducting was exactly that. He certainly didn't hate it and very much enjoyed,even had a major passion for conducting the works of his favourites,like Wagner,Bruckner et al.

If one looks at the history of conductors and their historical presence, I feel Mahler is at the top of the composer as conductor list. He conducted from 1880 until 1911. A 31 year career belies a reasonably happy man LOL

Jim


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Liszt was reputed to be a very passionate conductor. His Wagner interpretations were well-known. However, there are no recordings, of course, so we today cannot judge him.

Britten, as said, is certainly great. His Gerontius and Introduction & Allegro are among the finest Elgar recordings.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm surprised not to see *Leonard Bernstein *here, probably the most famous composer-conductor in the C20th, besides Mahler & Britten.

Antal Dorati also composed prolifically as well as conducting.

Bliss, Hindemith, Kodaly & Tippett also conducted/recorded their own works. I also seem to remember that Prokofiev & Ravel did this too, in the early days.


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

Andre said:


> I'm surprised not to see *Leonard Bernstein *here, probably the most famous composer-conductor in the C20th, besides Mahler & Britten.
> 
> Antal Dorati also composed prolifically as well as conducting.
> 
> Bliss, Hindemith, Kodaly & Tippett also conducted/recorded their own works. I also seem to remember that Prokofiev & Ravel did this too, in the early days.


I suppose we all sort of take Bernstein for granted. I thought of putting him here, though. At least someone had the sense to actually do it!


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

well, i guess in that case, Esa-Pekka Salonen should also be mentioned.. i haven't actually heard his music, but i know he composes too.. and Pierre Boulez..
i just understood the question as people who made their name as composers deciding to try conducting, and i think the case with Bernstein, Dorati, Salonen or Boulez is actually people who made their name in conducting, who also compose..


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

andruini said:


> well, i guess in that case, Esa-Pekka Salonen should also be mentioned.. i haven't actually heard his music, but i know he composes too.. and Pierre Boulez..
> i just understood the question as people who made their name as composers deciding to try conducting, and i think the case with Bernstein, Dorati, Salonen or Boulez is actually people who made their name in conducting, who also compose..


Actually, with Bernstein and Boulez at least, they tried to become composers first, but like Mahler they found it easier to keep going if they took up conducting as well.


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## andruini (Apr 14, 2009)

oh, i see now.. excuse, then, my ignorance..


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Andre said:


> I'm surprised not to see *Leonard Bernstein *here, probably the most famous composer-conductor in the C20th, besides Mahler & Britten.
> 
> Antal Dorati also composed prolifically as well as conducting.
> 
> Bliss, Hindemith, Kodaly & Tippett also conducted/recorded their own works. I also seem to remember that Prokofiev & Ravel did this too, in the early days.


I agree. For some reason my brain seems to be stuck in the late 19th century.Bernstein is an excellent example.

While not a fan of his own music (except the 1st symphony,which i admire), I respect his work in general.

Jim


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