# Favorite heroic operas and opera pieces? (From any voice type)



## Jordan Workman (May 9, 2016)

What are your favorite heroic operas and opera pieces? For example, heroic tenor roles like Siegfried
from Richard Wagner's 'Der Ring des Nibelungen' or any other opera role that is of a male hero (could be baritone, heldentenor, or from any other voice type)?


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## zxxyxxz (Apr 14, 2020)

Obviously all of Wagner's work.

Bear with my rambling below and remember this is how I hear things 

Outside of Wagner:

Max in Der Freischütz

Raymond in Raymond and Agnes

Baron Lindenberg in Raymond and Agnes (Evil yes, nice dramatic part though)

Florestan in Fidelio

Rigoletto in Rigoletto, not heroic but a large dramatic part that I hear as being more akin to the big heroic roles.

Zarewitsch in Der Zarewitsch, it might be an operetta but in Lehar's later more serious vein, big voice.

Goethe in Friederike, again late Lehar some interesting voice work.

French style Baroque opera, something I want to keep coming back to as despite the music being very different for me the singing is very heroic. What with the french using heroic male voices, even if there tenor is a bit higher than Wagner.

That's all I've got from the top of my head and crucially from operas I love.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Rodrigo from _Don Carlo_
Otello
Simon Boccanegra(?)
Parsifal
Florestan


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

*Poliuto*
Odabella in *Attila*
Arnold in *Gillaume Tell*
Le Chevalier des Grieux in *Manon Lescaut*
Brunhilde and Siegfried in *Der Ring des Nibelungen*
*Lohengrin *
*Senta * in *Die Fliegende Höllander* 
Manrico in *Il Trovatore*
*Andrea Chénier *
Cavaradossi and Tosca in *Tosca*
Calaf in *Turandot*
*Andrea Chénier*
*Minnie* in *La Fanciula Del West*
Radames in *Aida*
Arrigo in *La Battaglia di Legnano*
The Duchess Elena in *I Vespri Siciliani*
Alvaro in *La Forza Del Destino*
Posa in *Don Carlo*
Abigaille in *Nabucco*
Athanael in *Thais*
Samson in *Samson et Dalila* 
Arsace in *Semiramide*


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Could we say any trouser role in Händel, Rossini, or Vivaldi sung by *Marilyn Horne*?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I wanted to include heroic women but you specifically implied male hero roles only.
May I please add Minnie, and the nuns from _Dialogues des Carmelites_?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I wanted to include heroic women but you specifically implied male hero roles only.
> May I please add Minnie, and the nuns from _Dialogues des Carmelites_?


I added women (see above) to mine, not realizing it was verboten


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Still plenty of operas I still have to listen to, but I can throw my hat in for a couple operatic characters/arias that I would deem to be heroic:

1) Siegfried from the Ring Cycle: "Hoho! Hahei!"
2) Manrico from Il Trovatore: "Di Quella Pira"
3) Calaf from Turandot: "Nessun Dorma"
4) Tancredi from Tancredi: "Traditrice io t'abbandano"


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ThaNotoriousNIC said:


> Still plenty of operas I still have to listen to, but I can throw my hat in for a couple operatic characters/arias that I would deem to be heroic:
> 
> 1) Siegfried from the Ring Cycle: "Hoho! Hahei!"
> 2) Manrico from Il Trovatore: "Di Quella Pira"
> ...


Hi there NIC:
I am just curious. Could you please give me some examples of heroism that stem from Manrico and most of all, from Calaf?


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

There are at least two potential definitions of 'heroic' here. One is heroic characters, that is people who act heroically or who are particularly brave. This could include a number of operatic parts. Leonore/Fidelio comes to mind and it could be argued fits the bill whether women are allowed or not! There are also flawed heroes Siegfried and Otello would come in that category.

Then there are roles that are heroic vocally, the spinto and dramatic parts. That would include Calaf and Otello would come under that as well. My favourite would be Manrico, both vocally heroic as well as the part heroically running off here and there to save his mother or lover as the libretto obliges!

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Conte said:


> There are at least two potential definitions of 'heroic' here. One is heroic characters, that is people who act heroically or who are particularly brave. This could include a number of operatic parts. Leonore/Fidelio comes to mind and it could be argued fits the bill whether women are allowed or not! There are also flawed heroes Siegfried and Otello would come in that category.
> 
> Then there are roles that are heroic vocally, the spinto and dramatic parts. That would include Calaf and Otello would come under that as well. My favourite would be Manrico, both vocally heroic as well as the part heroically running off here and there to save his mother or lover as the libretto obliges!
> 
> N.


I get all but the Calaf one.
Sorry, Nessun dorma or not, that one eludes me. That cagey devil fits better in the B. F. Pinkerton group I think.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I get all but the Calaf one.
> Sorry, Nessun dorma or not, that one eludes me. That cagey devil fits better in the B. F. Pinkerton group I think.




Is that because of his treatment of Liu?

I agree, however, in terms of the vocal type, it's a heroic (that is spinto) role.

(Just to be clear, I wouldn't choose him as one of my favourite heroic tenor roles as I don't see him as a hero either. I understand, though, why others might class him as a hero due to the vocality of the part.)

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> *Poliuto*
> Odabella in *Attila*
> Manrico in *Il Trovatore*
> *Andrea Chénier*
> ...


These parts stand out for me when it comes to heroic qualities. I love that you included Odabella!

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Conte said:


> Is that because of his treatment of Liu?
> 
> I agree, however, in terms of the vocal type, it's a heroic (that is spinto) role.
> 
> ...


I was thinking only in terms of a "hero" (a fine human being doing good deeds) and not of a spinto type singer like Corelli/Tucker/Vickers/DelMonaco/Giordano type sound. (Frankly, I don't think the question was specific enough)
And it's not just Liu, although it was pretty reprehensible that once she killed herself wouldn't cha think he'd at least run to his blind Father to assist him rather than letting him grovel alone wondering what just happened. 
And of course he knew that no one would know his name now that Liu took it to her grave with her. He was all about power and sex -- not kindness and giving.(IMO)


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Hey Nina! Yes, I see what you mean in regards to Calaf in Turandot. I haven't had the chance to watch Turandot live or see a video recording with subtitles, so my understanding of what is heroic is limited to what I hear, which you can say is that I hear a tenor in a spinto role. While I am aware that Liu dies in servitude to the Calaf and the controversy around Turandot's characters, I based my judgment moreso on the type of music he sings and in particular, the arias. For Nessun Dorma, the translated lyrics I found are as follows:

Nobody shall sleep!...
Nobody shall sleep!
Even you, oh Princess,
in your cold room,
watch the stars,
that tremble with love and with hope.
But my secret is hidden within me,
my name no one shall know...
No!...No!...
On your mouth, I will tell it when the light shines.
And my kiss will dissolve the silence that makes you mine!...
(No one will know his name and we must, alas, die.)
Vanish, o night!
Set, stars! Set, stars!
At dawn, I will win! I will win! I will win!

As I am sure many people feel, the aria is very uplifting to listen to and in the context of the opera, it is the Calaf saying how he will defeat Turandot in this final riddle (who at I think at face value is presented as somewhat tyrannical for deciding the fate of those who fail to beat her riddles). In that regard, I look at Nessun Dorma as a song of triumph and heroism. If we were to look into Turandot deeper and look into the more subtle themes, maybe that is not so much the case as you were previously discussing in your previous posts. At face value and in the type of singing role the Calaf is, I would argue for it being heroic. Same can be said for Manrico in Il Trovatore with Di Quella Pira.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

Guillaume Tell is a great heroic role, a loving father and husband, badass freedom fighter, archery 100, and he earns his happy ending. Also pretty demanding vocally.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ThaNotoriousNIC said:


> Hey Nina! Yes, I see what you mean in regards to Calaf in Turandot. I haven't had the chance to watch Turandot live or see a video recording with subtitles, so my understanding of what is heroic is limited to what I hear, which you can say is that I hear a tenor in a spinto role. While I am aware that Liu dies in servitude to the Calaf and the controversy around Turandot's characters, I based my judgment moreso on the type of music he sings and in particular, the arias. For Nessun Dorma, the translated lyrics I found are as follows:
> 
> Nobody shall sleep!...
> Nobody shall sleep!
> ...


I see where you are coming from NIC. And in that regard I cannot argue with your conception of the word "hero". Certainly, if I were to pick out "heroes" simply from the spinto sounds they make I would have an entirely different take on the word. But I am only considering "hero" as the character in the opera, period.
I am only considering the word "hero" as someone who is an exemplary human being that does good deeds and is kind and giving, even if their voices croak like frogs.
So therein lies the difference I guess. I find the 2 conceptions of the word "hero" mutually exclusive. For me a hero is a good deed doer in character, period.
Beyond that, if the voice type comes into play, no matter how evil a character may be, and if they have that spinto sound and dramatic tenor voice, they certainly could be considered a heroic sounding tenor by me.(just not necessarily a hero.)
Got it now?:tiphat:


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> I see where you are coming from NIC. And in that regard I cannot argue with your conception of the word "hero". Certainly, if I were to pick out "heroes" simply from the spinto sounds they make I would have an entirely different take on the word. But I am only considering "hero" as the character in the opera, period.
> I am only considering the word "hero" as someone who is an exemplary human being that does good deeds and is kind and giving, even if their voices croak like frogs.
> So therein lies the difference I guess. I find the 2 conceptions of the word "hero" mutually exclusive. For me a hero is a good deed doer in character, period.
> Beyond that, if the voice type comes into play, no matter how evil a character may be, and if they have that spinto sound and dramatic tenor voice, they certainly could be considered a heroic sounding tenor by me.(just not necessarily a hero.)
> Got it now?:tiphat:


Definitely! When looking up spinto roles in opera, one role I found that is considered a spinto is the Duke from Rigoletto, which is an opera I've watched before and I know the libretto of. The Duke is absolutely in no shape or form a hero and takes advantage of Rigoletto's daughter. He might have some lovely, flowery singing, but his actions in the opera are awful.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ThaNotoriousNIC said:


> Definitely! When looking up spinto roles in opera, one role I found that is considered a spinto is the Duke from Rigoletto, which is an opera I've watched before and I know the libretto of. The Duke is absolutely in no shape or form a hero and takes advantage of Rigoletto's daughter. He might have some lovely, flowery singing, but his actions in the opera are awful.


Bingo!! You got it!!!!!!


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Cesare in Vinci's _Catone in Utica_ (1728)





Jean de Leyde in Meyerbeer's _Prophète_ (1849) - heroic opera, anti-heroic lead

Lohengrin

Énée in _Les Troyens_ (Berlioz)





Vasco de Gama (Meyerbeer, 1865)

Sigurd (Reyer, 1884)





Borodin's Prince Igor (1890)


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