# Bach Art of Fugue



## merlinus

I have Glenn Gould's cd, but it is incomplete. Any other suggestions?


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## ptr

You'll need at least these:

*Piano:*
Zoltan Kocsis (Philips)
*Organ:*
Håkan Wikman (Finlandia)
*Harpsichord:*
Davitt Moroney (Harmonia Mundi)
*Guitar:*
Jozsef Eötvös (Artisjus)
*Baroque Ensemble:*
Jordi Savall & Hesperion XX (Astrée-Auvidis)
*Brass:*
Canadian Brass (CBS Masterworks)
*Wind Quintet:*
Calefax Reed Quintet (MDG)
*Recorders:*
Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet (Channel Classics)
*String Quartet:*
Keller.Quartett (ECM)
*Chamber Orchestra:*
Neville Marriner & Academy of St. Martin in the Fields (Philips)
*Symphony Orchestra (Stiedry):*
Hans Zender & Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin (Koch)

/ptr


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## joen_cph

I like the _ptr_-mentioned Marriner & Kocsis sets.

The old *Scherchen* orchestral version somewhat disappointing, IMO; the old *Arthur Winograd* is better I think. Both with poor sound, though.


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## Bulldog

My favorites:

Organ - Weinberger/CPO
Harpsichord - Gilbert/Archiv
Piano - Nikolayeva/Hyperion
Fortepiano - Riemer/ORF
Multiple Instruments - Alessandrini/Opus 111 and Savall/Astree


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## davicaxias

ptr said:


> You'll need at least these:
> 
> *Piano:*
> Zoltan Kocsis (Philips)
> *Organ:*
> Håkan Wikman (Finlandia)
> *Harpsichord:*
> Davitt Moroney (Harmonia Mundi)
> *Guitar:*
> Jozsef Eötvös (Artisjus)
> *Baroque Ensemble:*
> Jordi Savall & Hesperion XX (Astrée-Auvidis)
> *Brass:*
> Canadian Brass (CBS Masterworks)
> *Wind Quintet:*
> Calefax Reed Quintet (MDG)
> *Recorders:*
> Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet (Channel Classics)
> *String Quartet:*
> Keller.Quartett (ECM)
> *Chamber Orchestra:*
> Neville Marriner & Academy of St. Martin in the Fields (Philips)
> *Symphony Orchestra (Stiedry):*
> Hans Zender & Radio-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin (Koch)
> 
> /ptr


Hello there!

I would like to kindly suggest another one inclusion (not very canonic one)
*Saxophone*
New Century Saxophone Quartet (Channel Classics)


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## premont

ptr said:


> You'll need at least these:
> 
> *Organ:*
> Håkan Wikman (Finlandia)
> *Harpsichord:*
> Davitt Moroney (Harmonia Mundi)


Actually some of my top recommendations, particularly Wikman. On piano I prefer Hans Petermandl. Don't care much for arangements for ensemble.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Slow, mystical, spiritual: Savall/Hesperion XX
Grand, overwhelming, celestial: Walcha on organ
Quirky yet effective: Canadian Brass
Straightforward, uncluttered ensemble version: Marriner
More energetic, period ensemble version: Goebel

I have yet to find a solo keyboard version that is convincing for me (I do love it on organ though). Gilbert on harpsichord is good to hear all the lines but I can’t bear the sound of the instrument for more than a few minutes. I was somewhat disappointed by Rosen’s famous piano version, very clinical sounding. Gould is Gould, and just because he’s playing the organ doesn’t mean his basic approach had changed at all.


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## Bulldog

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I have yet to find a solo keyboard version that is convincing for me (I do love it on organ though). Gilbert on harpsichord is good to hear all the lines but I can't bear the sound of the instrument for more than a few minutes. I was somewhat disappointed by Rosen's famous piano version, very clinical sounding. Gould is Gould, and just because he's playing the organ doesn't mean his basic approach had changed at all.


Check out Walter Riemer on fortepiano for something different.

Concerning the Gilbert version, I'm surprised you find his harpsichord sound disagreeable; my ears tell me it's quite attractive.


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## howlingfantods

sokolov on piano. he's a terrific polyphonist--the way he uses different dynamics and articulation for different voices, the clarity he's able to achieve in even the most complex fugues is very impressive.

it's on youtube if you want to sample:


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

In addition to Walcha on organ and the New Century Saxophone Quartet, I really like Fretwork's recording on HM.


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## Perfectfullmoon

piano: sokolov
string: Karl Munchinger & Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra


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## Allegro Con Brio

I really wish someone could explain what I’m missing in Sokolov. He seems to have a dedicated following, but what I’ve heard of him - parts of his AoF, his Chopin preludes and several other miscellaneous pieces, sound extremely tender and precious like he’s afraid to sing out. Extremely mannered and self-conscious. Artificial. I do think the AoF needs imagination to pull off, but it certainly can’t be interpreted as loosely as so many other works can.


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## howlingfantods

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I really wish someone could explain what I'm missing in Sokolov. He seems to have a dedicated following, but what I've heard of him - parts of his AoF, his Chopin preludes and several other miscellaneous pieces, sound extremely tender and precious like he's afraid to sing out. Extremely mannered and self-conscious. Artificial. I do think the AoF needs imagination to pull off, but it certainly can't be interpreted as loosely as so many other works can.


the guy in your avi thought highly of him....

ok to address in more substance, I think "tender and precious" is a weird description of someone who i think is one of the most heavy handed pianists around. when his instrument goes out of tune in the proms performance of rach 3, it's not at all a surprise, he pounds the ever livin daylights out of his instrument.

the attributes i like about him--he plays with enormous power but with extremely precise articulation and clarity--his peaks are extremely exciting but also emotionally cool somehow, an unusual combination. his trills have an inhuman evenness and his scales and arpeggios are jawdropping--the arpeggio at the end of his performance of the winter wind etude made me snort with disbelief the first time i heard it.

his baroque ornamentation is lively and stylish. i have zero interest in rameau and couperin except when sokolov is playing, because his ornamentation is so much fun to listen to.

as i mentioned a few posts up, i think one of his killer abilities is his clarity in polyphany. i love his bach, but this also is a big part of why i love his beethoven--his fugues in the late sonatas are like no others, it's like if gould was a real beethovenist.

he also plays with a very flexible tempo, his D960 for instance is played with a real singing style.

he's a very odd combination of styles, like if you took gilels, cortot and gould and mashed them up.

his biggest drawback--there are times that he indulges in extremes of tempi. very slow hammerklavier adagio, very slow op 111, very slow sarabandes in his bach pieces. these can definitely drag at times, but the payoff is that he finds beauty that i've never heard from other pianists. but there is a tradeoff there. the other big drawback is that he lacks a certain fluidity that is noticeable especially in chopin and schumann i think.


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## Guest

I recently heard a live performance by Daniil Trifonov and it was wonderful. I hope he records it for DG soon. Along with many that have been mentioned, I like this one:


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## Allegro Con Brio

howlingfantods said:


> the guy in your avi thought highly of him....
> 
> ok to address in more substance, I think "tender and precious" is a weird description of someone who i think is one of the most heavy handed pianists around. when his instrument goes out of tune in the proms performance of rach 3, it's not at all a surprise, he pounds the ever livin daylights out of his instrument.
> 
> the attributes i like about him--he plays with enormous power but with extremely precise articulation and clarity--his peaks are extremely exciting but also emotionally cool somehow, an unusual combination. his trills have an inhuman evenness and his scales and arpeggios are jawdropping--the arpeggio at the end of his performance of the winter wind etude made me snort with disbelief the first time i heard it.
> 
> his baroque ornamentation is lively and stylish. i have zero interest in rameau and couperin except when sokolov is playing, because his ornamentation is so much fun to listen to.
> 
> as i mentioned a few posts up, i think one of his killer abilities is his clarity in polyphany. i love his bach, but this also is a big part of why i love his beethoven--his fugues in the late sonatas are like no others, it's like if gould was a real beethovenist.
> 
> he also plays with a very flexible tempo, his D960 for instance is played with a real singing style.
> 
> he's a very odd combination of styles, like if you took gilels, cortot and gould and mashed them up.


Thanks, that's really helpful. Reassessing his AoF now. It's very interesting, as you said, in the different ways he articulates the polyphony. It certainly sounds very effortless and everything has been clearly thought out to the last detail with a beautiful legato tone. He almost makes it sound orchestral. Must have been having a bad day when I first heard it; I'm impressed! Certainly the most effective piano version I think I've heard. I'll have to do some more listening; I like creativity but not idiosyncrasy and from what I remember Sokolov really toes the line between the two.


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## pianozach

merlinus said:


> I have Glenn Gould's cd, but it is incomplete. Any other suggestions?


I enjoy Gould's interpretations of Bach, but his recordings are often NOT as the composer intended. Gould's schtick is to present the works in NEW ways.

If you want something more authentic, then you're better off with the *Emerson String Quartet*,

*Walter Riemer* or *Charles Rosen* (Piano),

*Kenneth Gilbert* or *Gustav Leonhardt* (Harpsichord), or

*Herbert Tachezi* or *Joan Lippencott* (Organ).


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## pianozach

pianozach said:


> I enjoy Gould's interpretations of Bach, but his recordings are often NOT as the composer intended. Gould's schtick is to present the works in NEW ways.
> 
> If you want something more authentic, then you're better off with the *Emerson String Quartet*,
> 
> *Walter Riemer* or *Charles Rosen* (Piano),
> 
> *Kenneth Gilbert* or *Gustav Leonhardt* (Harpsichord), or
> 
> *Herbert Tachezi* or *Joan Lippencott* (Organ).


I enjoy most of the orchestral arrangements of *The Art of Fugue* . . . all interesting in their own ways. If I had to pick one orchestral version, it might be the *Stuttgart* one. Maybe tomorrow it would be a different ensemble and version.

I love discovering new orchestral arrangements and recordings though.


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## NLAdriaan

Next to Gould, Sokolov and Savall, I would also like to recommend the 'Akademie fur alte Musik Berlin', for their very fresh and lively arrangement of the KDF on Harmonia Mundi. It is worth a try:


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## DavidA

This is perfectly splendid!


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## Itullian

Hewitt , gorgeous


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## Bulldog

pianozach said:


> I enjoy Gould's interpretations of Bach, but his recordings are often NOT as the composer intended. Gould's schtick is to present the works in NEW ways.
> 
> If you want something more authentic, then you're better off with the *Emerson String Quartet*,


That's rather amusing. *The Kellers on Authentic Modern Instruments.*


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## flamencosketches

I once heard someone say, "you haven't heard the Art of Fugue until you've heard it played by a saxophone quartet". Does anyone here share this view? I think it comes off surprisingly well, tho not sure if it's something I'd buy on CD.

I have three: Leonhardt (DHM), Rosen, and Goebel/Musica Antiqua Köln. I like them all but Leonhardt definitely takes the top place. In fact, inasmuch as it's possible in Bach, I would say Leonhardt "owns" the KDF. His interpretation seems perfectly on point, to me.


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## starthrower

I'm listening to Marriner's recording on Philips. I suppose it's out of vogue but I don't care. I enjoy this performance that employs a multi- instrumental arrangement.


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## Mandryka

flamencosketches said:


> I once heard someone say, "you haven't heard the Art of Fugue until you've heard it played by a saxophone quartet". Does anyone here share this view? I think it comes off surprisingly well, tho not sure if it's something I'd buy on CD.
> 
> I have three: Leonhardt (DHM), Rosen, and Goebel/Musica Antiqua Köln. I like them all but Leonhardt definitely takes the top place. In fact, inasmuch as it's possible in Bach, I would say Leonhardt "owns" the KDF. His interpretation seems perfectly on point, to me.


I've dipped into a couple of saxophone recordings - Berlin and New Century - but they didn't leave a strong impression, neither positive nor negative.

AoF is good on organ. Maybe best on organ. And clavichord too.


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## Manxfeeder

flamencosketches said:


> I once heard someone say, "you haven't heard the Art of Fugue until you've heard it played by a saxophone quartet". Does anyone here share this view?


What a strange thing to say. I'm a saxophone player, so I should be biased, but I prefer instrumental versions of the Art of Fugue on brass.


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## pianozach

Bulldog said:


> That's rather amusing. *The Kellers on Authentic Modern Instruments.*


Sounds fine to me. No need to make fun of them _or_ my suggestions. You could merely make your own suggestions and ellucidate why they're better. You are being such a downer.

I do enjoy Bach on period instruments an awful lot though.

But play Bach on whatever instruments you like, it translates almost effortlessly.


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> I've dipped into a couple of saxophone recordings - Berlin and New Century - but they didn't leave a strong impression, neither positive nor negative.


I own the New Century, it left me rather unimpressed. Too little tension I think. Another wind performance by The Calefax Wind Quintet seems to me much more interesting, but winds include oboe, sax, clarinets and basoon:

https://www.amazon.de/Kunst-Fuge-Ca...54&s=music&sprefix=califax,popular,160&sr=1-3


Mandryka said:


> AoF is good on organ. Maybe best on organ. And clavichord too.


Agreed completely. Unfortunately the Johann Sonnleitner / Stefan Müller version is OOP since long.


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## Bulldog

pianozach said:


> Sounds fine to me. No need to make fun of them _or_ my suggestions. You could merely make your own suggestions and ellucidate why they're better. You are being such a downer.


Sorry you feel that way. I do realize that your premise is that the Emersons play in a style more akin to Bach's music than Gould.


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## sstucky

Try the Fine Arts Quartet and the NY Woodwind Quintet on Concert-Disc from the late 1950s.


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