# Choose your favorite to see live.



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Poll inspired by a 2012 post,



> Shakespeare's greatest play, Hamlet, can run to nearly 5 hours (uncut) while a football game can surpass Die Götterdammerung.


So let's see what the TC community thinks of that!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Definitely_ Die Götterdammerung_. I wish that the other three Ring operas were included as well, but I guess I'll just have to watch those on DVD the day before!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

If you posted this on a sports forum, I am sure the majority would opt for a football game. On TC - well, what do you expect?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> If you posted this on a sports forum, I am sure the majority would opt for a football game. On TC - well, what do you expect?


On TC and in the community forum I expect many who are not into opera to vote for Hamlet or football.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I am not into Wagner, but that was a clear choice for me anyway.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

_Hamlet_. Uncut and in period, for choice.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Has to be Hamlet for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

_Hamlet. Uncut and in period, for choice. _

I do add +1 .


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I vote for _Breaking Bad_.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

What's a bit interesting is that Hamlet and Götterdammerung are specific examples of drama or opera, but a football game is not only generic but also not defined as to which type of football. I guess each member can decide for themselves. I don't know how much different the results would be if instead of football game the poll included the Super Bowl or the World Cup final. 

Anyway if the choice were which of Hamlet, Götterdammerung, or an NFL playoff game would you prefer to see on TV, I would opt for an NFL playoff game. Since the choice is live, I will go for Götterdammerung.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I chose undecided. For anything that long, I'd rather stay home.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

I went for Hamlet. 
I love football, but I don't know when I'll go see another live game. For the amount of money to buy tickets, hassle dealing with waves of humanity and horrible parking, it's not worth it. I much prefer to watch from the comfort of my living room. 
Die Götterdammerung is a masterpiece, but 5 hours? Given the choice between it and Hamlet, I'll take Hamlet, even though it too can be several hours.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

None of the above, since I am decided that I don't want to watch any of the other three options


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Actually, I have enjoyed live all three, and would probably opt for any of them given the right circumstances. But I am old enough to like my creature comforts. Live from the Met satisfies my Wagnerian needs, TV for sporting events, where I can beer myself and wife just footsteps away from the fridge, but live theater still has that old magic for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

znapschatz said:


> Actually, I have enjoyed live all three, and would probably opt for any of them given the right circumstances. But I am old enough to like my creature comforts. Live from the Met satisfies my Wagnerian needs, TV for sporting events, where I can beer myself and wife just footsteps away from the fridge, but live theatre still has that old magic for me.


Nothing beats the real, I love seeing things in theatre .


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I would go for Hamlet. Were it a Playoff hockey game rather than football though I'd snap
Up the hockey tickets!


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Sonata said:


> I would go for Hamlet. Were it a Playoff hockey game rather than football though I'd snap
> Up the hockey tickets!


Ah, Hamlet. My wife and I attended a matinee performance of it at the Old Vic during a trip to England some years ago, which I suppose is the equivalent of Wagner at Bayreuth. I love the play. It taught me Shakespeare.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

I have to quantify. I have already seen Hamlet live (twice) and I'm not a big fan of opera. However, it can't be "A" football game (& I interpreted this as American Football), it has to be THE football game. Now, this football game I speak of is the greatest rivalry in all sports here in the US. The only sports rivalry that National Geographic did an entire 1 hour special on (which was awesome!). It is on my bucket list to see live: Michigan vs. Ohio State. But it has to be in Ann Arbor Michigan because I'm a Wolverine's fan.

Now, if it were a live performance of Titus or Othello....... Nah.... it would still be Wolverine's vs. Buckeye's.

V


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

For me, it's an NFL football game. I don't have any interest in Shakespeare; only moderate interest in Wagner.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Varick said:


> I have to quantify. I have already seen Hamlet live (twice) and I'm not a big fan of opera. However, it can't be "A" football game (& I interpreted this as American Football), it has to be THE football game. Now, this football game I speak of is the greatest rivalry in all sports here in the US. The only sports rivalry that National Geographic did an entire 1 hour special on (which was awesome!). It is on my bucket list to see live: Michigan vs. Ohio State. But it has to be in Ann Arbor Michigan because I'm a Wolverine's fan.
> 
> Now, if it were a live performance of Titus or Othello....... Nah.... it would still be Wolverine's vs. Buckeye's.
> 
> V


As a genuine Buckeye, my heart beats scarlet and grey. I would like to see the game played at the OSU horseshoe stadium, a 20 minute bus ride from where I live, and watch the Wolverines (a thoroughly nasty creature in real life) humiliated once again (in fairness, I must admit that the buckeye is actually a useless nut.)

The Ohio/Michigan rivalry actually has a historical origin that no more than a handful of partisans from either side have any knowledge. There was a conflict known as the Toledo War in the mid 1830s over possesion of that city, which borders the two states. Each side claimed it, and the argument escalated to sending their respective state militias to settle matters by force of arms.

The first clash was between a Michigan sheriff and a party of Ohio surveyers. When he tried to arrest them, one of them named Two Stickney (his brother's name was One) stabbed him in the side, resulting in a superficial wound. But the Ohioans wound up in jail anyway, a causus belli for the Ohio governor, who ordered his state militia to the border, and the Michiganders responded in kind.

Although only 50 miles from the the assembly point at Ann Arbor, it took almost two weeks for them to get to Ohio because they stopped at every tavern en route and were quite drunk by the time they got there. The Ohio militia, also in the same shape, arrived at much the same time, and both were ready to fight, but stumbling around the swampy border, couldn't find each other. At this point, the Federal Government intervened, and brokered a deal ceding Toledo and Maumee County to Ohio, and compensated Michigan by robbing Wisconsin of its Upper Penninsula and handing it over to the Michiganders, which turned out to be a good deal for all but hapless Wisconsin, the only loser in the Toledo War. But at least nobody got killed, except for an Ohio pig, for which no compensation was ever paid. In war, livestock is always the loser  .


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

We having a tie .....


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> We having a tie .....


Two ties. One between the artistic works and one between football and blah.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

znapschatz said:


> As a genuine Buckeye, my heart beats scarlet and grey. I would like to see the game played at the OSU horseshoe stadium, a 20 minute bus ride from where I live, and watch the Wolverines (a thoroughly nasty creature in real life) humiliated once again (in fairness, I must admit that the buckeye is actually a useless nut.)
> 
> The Ohio/Michigan rivalry actually has a historical origin that no more than a handful of partisans from either side have any knowledge. There was a conflict known as the Toledo War in the mid 1830s over possesion of that city, which borders the two states. Each side claimed it, and the argument escalated to sending their respective state militias to settle matters by force of arms.
> 
> ...


As you know, a huge factor for Ohio in that war was to get a port city on the lake which was crucial for commerce and would have been economically disastrous for Ohio if they didn't get it. But yes, the National Geographic special went through the entire history. Great post!

V


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Two ties. One between the artistic works and one between football and blah.


Sharp observation. :tiphat:


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Varick said:


> As you know, a huge factor for Ohio in that war was to get a port city on the lake which was crucial for commerce and would have been economically disastrous for Ohio if they didn't get it. But yes, the National Geographic special went through the entire history. Great post!
> 
> V


Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't known this historical episode was featured anywhere. I learned about it from a friend who was a history buff and civil war re-enactor, a strange breed, but a good source of historical anecdotes. I hope this may be available to view on-line.

More historical trivia: Originally, Toledo was a backwater, literally, a swampy neighborhood called frogtown by its inhabitants for its numerous denizens, and was at first readily ceded to Michigan until completion of the Erie Canal suddenly made it valuable. I used to visit there occasionally on photo assignments, and for me, the big attraction was Tony Packo's Restaurant, source of reputedly the best sausage in the entire world (I thought it was more like okay.) One of the characters on the MASH television series was supposedly from Toledo, and he plugged Tony Packo's a few times.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

znapschatz said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't known this historical episode was featured anywhere. I learned about it from a friend who was a history buff and civil war re-enactor, a strange breed, but a good source of historical anecdotes. I hope this may be available to view on-line.
> 
> More historical trivia: Originally, Toledo was a backwater, literally, a swampy neighborhood called frogtown by its inhabitants for its numerous denizens, and was at first readily ceded to Michigan until completion of the Erie Canal suddenly made it valuable. I used to visit there occasionally on photo assignments, and for me, the big attraction was Tony Packo's Restaurant, source of reputedly the best sausage in the entire world (I thought it was more like okay.) One of the characters on the MASH television series was supposedly from Toledo, and he plugged Tony Packo's a few times.


I didn't know that history of Toledo. The character from MASH (One of my favorite shows - at least sit coms of all time) was Max Klinger. They hairy guy with the big nose who wore dresses trying to get a "Section 8" so he could get out of the Army. Jamie Farr is his name in real life.

V


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I would choose Götterdämmerung, Wagner's most inspired opera (IMHO) and my favorite opera of all time. (Britten's Peter Grimes is number two).

For me a live performance of Götterdämmerung is an opportunity not to be missed!


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

I just *love* _Peter Grimes!_ It grabs me by the subconscious and won't let go. At first hearing in Los Angeles a lifetime ago, I was so moved that I sat through all three performances of it by the USC Opera Workshop. Sometimes sections of it come unbidden while I'm doing something entirely removed from music. The atmospherics, Boy Howdy!

_Götterdämmerung_ is another one, but I need to hear the whole _Der Ring des Nibelungen_, or I feel vaguely incomplete. That means when I'm in Wagner mode, I must set aside the several days it takes to get through the entire cycle, so I can only do it once every few years (except, of course, for Met broadcasts.) My understanding wife puts up with it and supplies the concert necessities, like popcorn and taking phone calls while I'm binging, but I can't impose on her too often.

There are others, but I respond to these because of hpowders' post  .


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

So, I need to ask: I'm not an opera fan (I don't hate opera, it just doesn't do anything for me outside of some great overtures and arias). Can one listen to something like Götterdämmerung or Siegfried alone without hearing the first three, and even NOT knowing anything about the other three (other than that they are all part of Der Ring des Nibelungen) and still find and follow a cohesive story/narritive? Or does one need to know the entire ring story to understand each cycle?

V


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> For me, it's an NFL football game. I don't have any interest in Shakespeare; only moderate interest in Wagner.


If your cable went out, believe me, you will be begging to see Götterdämmerung.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Varick said:


> So, I need to ask: I'm not an opera fan (I don't hate opera, it just doesn't do anything for me outside of some great overtures and arias). Can one listen to something like Götterdämmerung or Siegfried alone without hearing the first three, and even NOT knowing anything about the other three (other than that they are all part of Der Ring des Nibelungen) and still find and follow a cohesive story/narritive? Or does one need to know the entire ring story to understand each cycle?
> 
> V


Definitely yes!!


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Varick said:


> So, I need to ask: I'm not an opera fan (I don't hate opera, it just doesn't do anything for me outside of some great overtures and arias). Can one listen to something like Götterdämmerung or Siegfried alone without hearing the first three, and even NOT knowing anything about the other three (other than that they are all part of Der Ring des Nibelungen) and still find and follow a cohesive story/narritive? Or does one need to know the entire ring story to understand each cycle?
> 
> V


It helps, but there is much exposition that explains how things got to the pass they are at when the opera opens. Or, you can read a plot synopsis, which is not hard to find on the interwebs. But why not do it right and start with _Das Rheingold_? My introduction to the Ring were acts 2 and 3 of _Die Walküre_, and was hooked by that alone.

Another anecdote: My father in law, a bass-baritone opera singer, often used to sing his pre-teen daughter to sleep with Wotan's farewell to Brünnhilde from _Die Walküre_. She, who knew the story, was conflicted by this .


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

anything but Die Gotterdammerung and shaky is in the lead again


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Bring on the Wagner! I've done the other two.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Definitely the Wagner, but only if it's without the more preposterous kind of 'modern' stage production.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Hamlet for me. Second place might be a close call


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

I had to go with _Hamlet_ because unlike Wagner, Shakespeare knew a cadence when he heard one.:lol:

"O, it offends me to the soul to hear a robustious periwig-pated fellow tear a passion to tatters, to very rags, to split the ears of the groundlings, who for the most part are capable of nothing but inexplicable dumbshows and noise: I would have such a fellow whipped for o'erdoing Termagant; it out-herods Herod: pray you, avoid it."


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