# Brandenburg Concertos - Please suggest a good CD version



## kmisho

Last time I tried this, looking for a good cycle of the Beethoven symphonies,the results were great. I got exactly what I was after. So here we go again.

I'm looking for a super copy of the Brandenburg Concertos. I'm not going to give any guidelines except that I want excellent sound quality. It would be great if you can tell me something about these:

1) Why did YOU like it?
2) Does it use authentic Baroque practice, or not, or is it a hybrid?
3) Does it use original or modern instruments, or a hybrid?

Note I'm making a clear distinction between Baroque style and Baroque instruments.

Sell me! Thanks for taking the time.


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## Guest

Oh man, I have a couple of go-to recordings of these. I'll give you a few recommendations. I'll preface it by saying that these are all HIP. Other than solo keyboard works, there are only a few exceptions for me - I prefer baroque performances to be HIP.

So, this is one I found a little while ago and absolutely love:








I love the tempos, and it just sounds very clean and fresh. Wonderful recording.









I have yet to be disappointed by Savall - and this is no exception. Incidentally, if you like Savall, I'd also recommend his recording of Bach's Musical Offering.









Although no longer my favorite, Harnoncourt's recording of these was my first exposure to these works, and still carries a warm place in my heart.


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## Webernite

DrMike's given some good suggestions. For a non-HIP recording, I'm fond of the set recorded by Raymond Leppard with the English Chamber Orchestra.


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## Ukko

I'll second (or third) DrMike's recommendation of the Jordi Savall recordings. Both the instruments and the 'practice' are 'period', and the sound engineering is fine too.


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## Vaneyes




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## kmisho

DrMike said:


> Oh man, I have a couple of go-to recordings of these. I'll give you a few recommendations. I'll preface it by saying that these are all HIP. Other than solo keyboard works, there are only a few exceptions for me - I prefer baroque performances to be HIP.
> 
> So, this is one I found a little while ago and absolutely love:
> Rinaldo Allessandrini
> I love the tempos, and it just sounds very clean and fresh. Wonderful recording.


What was it about the tempi? Would the "average" listener find them controversial? I like Bach to move at a good clip, but I've heard a lot of Brandenbergs (old and new) that I think are too fast. Actually, I'm wondering about tempo for all of them. I'm not necessarily stuck on a certain tempo I'm used to, but my experience with HIP is many of the conductors go way out of whack in reinterpreting tempo.



> Savall
> I have yet to be disappointed by Savall - and this is no exception. Incidentally, if you like Savall, I'd also recommend his recording of Bach's Musical Offering.


How about his Handel Water Music and Fireworks Music? They seem to be well-liked.



> Harnoncourt
> Although no longer my favorite, Harnoncourt's recording of these was my first exposure to these works, and still carries a warm place in my heart.


The Harnoncourt is old but they say it's very clear. How good is the sound quality?


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## kmisho

Has anyone heard the Pinnock or Abbado versions?

What about the old Benjamin Britten version?


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## Guest

kmisho said:


> What was it about the tempi? Would the "average" listener find them controversial? I like Bach to move at a good clip, but I've heard a lot of Brandenbergs (old and new) that I think are too fast. Actually, I'm wondering about tempo for all of them. I'm not necessarily stuck on a certain tempo I'm used to, but my experience with HIP is many of the conductors go way out of whack in reinterpreting tempo.
> 
> How about his Handel Water Music and Fireworks Music? They seem to be well-liked.
> 
> The Harnoncourt is old but they say it's very clear. How good is the sound quality?


I highly recommend Savall's recording of Handel's Water Music. It is my favorite recording. In general, I really like Savall, so I will always recommend his recordings.

As to tempi, I don't know what they "should" be. I don't know music theory, and don't consult the sheet music. I just know what sounds good to me. In general, though, I believe these recordings I have recommended do have faster tempi than non-HIP works. I don't know how controversial they are. I think, though, that some are even faster - Il Giardino Armonica, I believe, might be even faster.

I enjoyed Harnoncourt's recording - but it has been a while since I have listened to it. I believe, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that Harnoncourt was one of the first pioneers in HIP, and his Bach recordings are some of the first. So things have come a long way since then. But they are still well worth hearing.


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## Guest

kmisho said:


> Has anyone heard the Pinnock or Abbado versions?
> 
> What about the old Benjamin Britten version?


Pinnock has a couple of recordings - an older one with the English Concert on Archiv, which I enjoy, and a newer one with the European Brandenburg Ensemble on Avie which I haven't heard, but have read good things about. Pinnock, to me, is a good, solid HIP conductor, and I have generally enjoyed his works - they just aren't always my favorites.

I don't know the Abbado version - but I do have some of his other recordings with his Orchestra Mozart. I was highly disappointed with their recordings of Mozart's symphonies, but love their recording with Giuliano Carmignola of Mozart's Violin Concertos and Symphonia conertante. I suspect it was Carmignola that added to the improvement, and I love Carmignola's works, so having him on board for the Brandenburgs might just do it. I might look into this one myself.


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## Guest

Vaneyes said:


>


Another nice one that I have, and for the price, not one to pass up.


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## kmisho

DrMike said:


> I highly recommend Savall's recording of Handel's Water Music. It is my favorite recording. In general, I really like Savall, so I will always recommend his recordings.


Thanks. One more question about the Allessandrini as I'm seriously considering this set. I ran across one review that said the horns in the first concerto are weird and used like hunting calls, as mentioned in the liner notes.


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## Guest

kmisho said:


> Thanks. One more question about the Allessandrini as I'm seriously considering this set. I ran across one review that said the horns in the first concerto are weird and used like hunting calls, as mentioned in the liner notes.


Yeah, I read that review, as well, on Amazon. I don't really know that I have ever had any issues with the horns. I think they do use period horns, which I believe were more difficult, but I love the sound. That review, as well, seems more intent on sounding cute - referencing the hunting calls of the horns with the odd cover art, and playing on the name of the record label (naive). You can listen to short snippets on Amazon, or on iTunes. Like I said, it is perhaps my favorite, but I don't think you will be at all disappointed if you opted for the Savall recording.

I will bring this up as well - there are some non-HIP recordings out there that are well worth hearing. Karl Richter has some great Bach recordings. While not HIP, as I understand it, he still tried more than most to adhere to some of the period practices. It is kind of a nice middle ground between the lean HIP of today and the grandiose massive recordings of, say, Klemperer in his St. Matthew Passion.

Also, Adolf Busch and the Busch Chamber Players have a great recording on EMI - but it is mono, and not stellar sound quality. But I have read that their stye looked forward to the HIP movement that would come decades later, with the smaller number of performers and the tempi they chose.

There are a ton of great options out there.


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## kmisho

DrMike said:


> Yeah, I read that review, as well, on Amazon. I don't really know that I have ever had any issues with the horns. I think they do use period horns, which I believe were more difficult, but I love the sound. That review, as well, seems more intent on sounding cute - referencing the hunting calls of the horns with the odd cover art, and playing on the name of the record label (naive). You can listen to short snippets on Amazon, or on iTunes. Like I said, it is perhaps my favorite, but I don't think you will be at all disappointed if you opted for the Savall recording.


I hate it when the reviewer is interested most in convincing readers of his brilliance. If the horns did not seem too weird, good enough for me. Using period instruments would have meant no valves and no stops, i.e. on the loud side and very hard to play.


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## haydnfan

I'll throw in yet another vote for Savall as my favorite PI set. As for Pinnock, he is okay certainly not bad, a little too mechanical sounding to me.


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## Vaneyes

haydnfan said:


> I'll throw in yet another vote for Savall as my favorite PI set. As for Pinnock, he is okay certainly not bad, a little too mechanical sounding to me.


Though neither is my preference, I'd take Pinnock's if I had only these choices. I found Savall's recorded sound to be cold, in-your-face close, thus disengaging, and tempi were generally too fast. Pinnock's sound, slightly warmer and better distanced, with more reasonable tempi.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Another top choice must surely be that of Masaaki Suzuki and the BCJ. The sound quality on a Hybrid SACD recorded by BIS is unsurpassed. Suzuki has become one of the leading Bach interpreters having recorded the whole of Bach's cantatas, and most of his choral music. I like the Italianate grace and sprightliness of Alessandrini's Brandenburgs. Suzuki brings something similar... yet not exactly the same. His performance of the Brandenburgs convey a light and clarity. They are lively... yet not rushed (a flaw of some HIP recordings). The Suzuki set has that added advantage of including the Orchestral Suites as well.










Seriously, you will do fine with any one of the recommended recordings... and any number of others as well. While I am a Bach devotee, I can't say that I have ever heard the definitive Brandenburg Concertos.


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## Guest

I have not heard Suzuki's recording of the Brandenburgs, but can't imagine they would be less than incredible. I love his recordings of the cantatas, the motets, the Mass in B Minor, the Orchestral Suites (I have them on a separate recording), and the St. John Passion. I keep meaning to add this one to the collection.


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## kmisho

I'm having major problems with most of the period instruments. Some reviews give the Suzuki high marks as far as tempo and usage of the period instruments so I'll see if I can sample it somewhere.


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## Guest

kmisho said:


> I'm having major problems with most of the period instruments. Some reviews give the Suzuki high marks as far as tempo and usage of the period instruments so I'll see if I can sample it somewhere.


What do you mean by "major problems?" Is it the sound you don't care for? Not everybody cares for period instruments.


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## Ukko

kmisho said:


> I'm having major problems with most of the period instruments. Some reviews give the Suzuki high marks as far as tempo and usage of the period instruments so I'll see if I can sample it somewhere.


Amazon.com has listings for the Brandenburgs and several other Bach works, performed by Collegium Aureum (period instruments), on the Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (Sony/BMG) label. You may find things to criticize, but probably not the instrument sounds.


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## Bill H.

Hilltroll72 said:


> Amazon.com has listings for the Brandenburgs and several other Bach works, performed by Collegium Aureum (period instruments), on the Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (Sony/BMG) label. You may find things to criticize, but probably not the instrument sounds.


It should be noted that the Collegium Aureum's recording of these is from the mid-1960s, contemporary with the original Harnoncourt version. That said, I think the CA's version is quite a bit more vibrant than CMW, with lively but not overhectic tempi, and real one-to-a-part proportions in all but No. 1, IIRC. [my set is a pair of Victrola LPs]. The 60s vintage means that there is perhaps a bit more vibrato used by the period instruments than in later recordings, which may not be an issue to some listeners. The personnel were some of the big names of the period instrument school of that time, such as Hans-Martin Linde, Fritz Neumeyer, Johannes Koch and Edward H. Tarr on a smoking clarino trumpet

If you want to hear a 60s set on modern instruments with a more traditional non-HIP flavor (though still with harpsichord continuo), you could do worse than the English Chamber Orchestra's version conducted by Benjamin Britten on Decca.

Another more recent set on period instruments is that by AAM/Richard Egarr, which I have on CD and also heard live when they toured concerts of all six concertos. I second the Savall rec too.


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## Bill H.

[Duplicate post removed--apologies]


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## StlukesguildOhio

The Suzuki set was recorded in 2008 and released in 2009. Classics today rated it a 10 for performance and a 10 for sound quality. I have come across any number of other equally enthusiastic ratings. Ultimately, there are a good dozen+ high quality recordings of the Brandenburgs and which to choose is a matter of individual taste.


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## kmisho

Thanks Bill. Yes, one of my criteria is very new with superior quality sound. I sampled 5 different HIP or partly-HIP versions and have to decline them all. My main complaints are tempos too fast...and those blame 1650's horns!

I have in the past gravitated to these versions:







Superior musicianship and solid sound, but still some are too fast. "Virtuosic."

These there's Philip Ledger's 2 CD set from 1987. The interpretations are better but both sound quality and musicianship lack a little.

Finally Wendy Carlos's notorious Switched-On Brandenburgs multi-tracked on the Moog. Proof for me that strict HIP is pointless... Everything about this set is great, just that it's not acoustic instruments.

I'm still hoping I can find something that has the sound quality and musicianship of the Shifrin and the interpretation of Ledger or Carlos. Haven't found it yet.


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## kmisho

Just to throw it out there. Of the HIPS I listened to, the one by the orchestra of enlightenment struck me as the best. Why does everybody play the last movement of the third lightning fast?? It's like I'm not even allowed to hear it anymore.

Nobody mentioned the mid 1990's HIP version with Pearlman. The samples I heard were pretty nice.


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## kmisho

StlukesguildOhio said:


> The Suzuki set was recorded in 2008 and released in 2009. Classics today rated it a 10 for performance and a 10 for sound quality. I have come across any number of other equally enthusiastic ratings. Ultimately, there are a good dozen+ high quality recordings of the Brandenburgs and which to choose is a matter of individual taste.


Of course, and you guys have listed a lot of them. It was VERY helpful.

I tried the Concerto Italiano version and a lot of people talked about it's "Italian" approach. You know what it reminded me of? Dixieland. It was a free-for-all, every man for himself. "YOU have fun with YOUR part." I can see the attraction, but it's the kind of thing I'd listen to 1 time in 50 for the sheer audacity of it.

By the way, did anyone notice how, in the Savall version, the first violinist was dragging badly in the quieter portions of the 1st movement of the 5th? I don't know what it was. Maybe he was distracted for some reason. The thing is, that went on the recording dude!

Finally, I found out that the Abbado version exists on blu-ray. It's a fine version and the visuals will be nice. I have a 5 year old I'm trying to acclimate to all kinds of music and I think being able to watch the musicians play will help.


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## Conor71

If you're considering the Pinnock/English Concert HIP recordings, I own these and agree that they are excellent performances and in very good sound 
Pinnock's Bach is now available in a very good VFM box-set if you are interested (below) - I own all these recordings as individuals and enjoy them all very much:


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## TxllxT

*Here come the Dutch (+ 1 British)*





































Forget Harnoncourt and especially his wife on her screeching constantly-out-of-tune violin: the 1977 Sony recording with Brüggen, Kuijkens, Bylsma & Leonhardt set the landmark for period instruments interpretations. Such a marvelous concentration! The newer recordings with Jan Willem de Vriend (1996 Pony Canyon), Pieter-Jan Belder (2006 Brilliant Classics) and Orchestra of the age of enlightenment (1989 Virgin Veritas) are very enjoyable. Suzuki's recording I didn't hear, but he learned all what he could learn from Brüggen and Leonhardt.


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## haydnfan

kmisho said:


> You know what it reminded me of? Dixieland. It was a free-for-all, every man for himself. "YOU have fun with YOUR part." I can see the attraction, but it's the kind of thing I'd listen to 1 time in 50 for the sheer audacity of it.


That's precisely what I look for in a baroque PI recording! They shouldn't play together, not with one rhythm, because that is not what they did then. To play in unison is to elevate the melody above the harmony, the counterpoint. Harmonizing the melody is much more important than the melody itself, especially in Bach.

How can you enjoy the intricacies of rhythm, color and harmony if the orchestra plays like a metronome?


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## Nix

I'll second the Alessandrini. Excellent balance and wonderful clarity. The tempo's might be too fast for you liking... the fast movements are pretty quick.


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## Il_Penseroso

Webernite said:


> DrMike's given some good suggestions. For a non-HIP recording, I'm fond of the set recorded by Raymond Leppard with the English Chamber Orchestra.


I also recommend this ... for me is the best. I have an old recording on cassette, but here is also the CD release, 2003 :










and










see also here and here.


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## kv466

Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner


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## musicdavid

I don't know if they have an HIP recording or not - but - you might want to check on Apollo's Fire - a baroque group from Cleveland that is highly thought of.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Since picking up the Suzuki set I also purchased a copy of Jordi Savall's Brandenburgs after being absolutely enthralled by his Handel water Music/Royal Fireworks. I believe that as of now it is my first "go to" disc for the Brandenburgs... followed closely by Alessandrini and Suzuki. Savall is more muscular... never forgetting that these concertos are rooted in dance. If I did ever think about purchasing yet another set of the Brandenburgs it just might be by Apollo's Fire... simply to have something by this amazing local orchestra. They are actually performing the Brandenburgs 3-6 here sometime next Spring.


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## kv466

Another recording I just recently started hearing again (although bad me didn't take care of these cd's very well) is a recording by The Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment....wow, I mean...I pretty much grew up on these recordings and just from the couple I've heard yesterday these are still as fresh and wonderful as ever! I remember reading on the notes of the original double disc that they are a period performance group but beyond that I don't know much about them other than the fact that they record exquisitely and that the performances are great. My disc is a double disc with white cover and just some old school writing...I would believe that is out of print now so the one I found online (and cheap) is this one and I'm sure it's the same version:


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## hocket

I'm very happy with the Suzuki, but I'd be interested in hearing the Savall and Alessandrini versions. I've heard that Richard Egarr's recording is very good, and Diego Fasolis's I Barrochisti get great reviews too. 

The best of the newer recordings are properly polyphonic (what to the OP apparently sounded like a free for all!) whilst older recordings (even Pinnock's with the English Concert) tend to try and suborn everything to a lead line and basically sound as much like Mozart as possible.

Amongst older recordings I'd be interested in getting hold of Reinhard Goebels' with MAK although that is exactly what the OP was wanting to avoid -full on turbo baroque (mind you, I think this thread's gone way past it's sell by date as far as answering the OP's question is concerned).


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## Guest

Egarr's is good, but some may feel that his tempos are bit slow. I like it, as well as this one:


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## Guest

Kontrapunctus said:


> Egarr's is good, but some may feel that his tempos are bit slow. I like it, as well as this one:


I don't have this recording, but I do have this group's recording of the Orchestral Suites, and can heartily recommend them.


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## Guest

^^ Indeed. They play with tremendous energy, and the sound is amazing, especially in multi-channel SACD


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## science

Anybody for Goebel?


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## jdbarrer

Look for the version by the *Freiburger Barockoschester*. It is actually posted on YouTube (this is not the reason for me to choose it of course). I have a high respect for their style: they indeed use authentic instruments and have a very exciting version of the Baroque style, with a certain strength that I have not found anywhere else.

You may also look at the recordings by *La Petite Bande*. I consider their style very "purist".


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## jdbarrer

(By the way: these are not CD versions, at least those that I know, but I hope you find my suggestion useful). Greets.


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## Guest

science said:


> Anybody for Goebel?


I enjoy Goebel's recording as well. I don't own it, but have checked it out from the library in the past. It didn't stand out, to me, but certainly a good recording.


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## VanCrusty

The greatest recordings I have found thus far:


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## bigshot

Honestly, I couldn't pick a favorite Brandenburg set. The performances are all over the map... some fast, some slow- some clipped, some with dance rhythms- etc. I get something different out of all of them. Bach is like a jewel with a bunch of different facets. There isn't just one proper angle to look at it.


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## premont

bigshot said:


> Honestly, I couldn't pick a favorite Brandenburg set. The performances are all over the map... some fast, some slow- some clipped, some with dance rhythms- etc. I get something different out of all of them. Bach is like a jewel with a bunch of different facets. There isn't just one proper angle to look at it.


Very true. The more versions one has heard, the more obvious your claim seems.
Believe me or not, but having heard about 95% of all the recordings ever made of these works, I know what you are talking about.


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## dieter

My favorite 2 are Goebel and Fasolis.


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## Heliogabo

I can't choose a favorite either, nevertheless, it was weird not to see any mention here to Hogwood's rendition. With that weird horns that some people hate but that I find delightful.


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## Pugg

I Musici doing a very good job.


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## KenOC

A very good set is by the Café Zimmerman, a small group named for the café where some of Bach's concertos were performed. This is a six-disc set with the Brandenburgs, the orchestral suites, and the clavier and other concertos. I listen to this set a lot.


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## Guest

KenOC said:


> A very good set is by the Café Zimmerman, a small group named for the café where some of Bach's concertos were performed. This is a six-disc set with the Brandenburgs, the orchestral suites, and the clavier and other concertos. I listen to this set a lot.


To much caféine!


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## Pugg

Traverso said:


> To much caféine!


Perhaps decaf :lol:


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## chesapeake bay

Heliogabo said:


> I can't choose a favorite either, nevertheless, it was weird not to see any mention here to Hogwood's rendition. With that weird horns that some people hate but that I find delightful.


Yea they are noticeable as well in Freiburger Barockoschester's rendition, they are natural horns with no valves so volume control is limited. I like them too


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## Tom Formanek

If you can find it on this side of the Pacific, RCA Red Seal once released a version by the Paillard Chamber Orchestra with Maurice Andre and Jean Pierre Rampal in the mix. It was a larger, modern version but energetic and refined. It is not in the current catalog state-side. I keep hoping Erato will pick up the rights as they did to other Paillard recordings. My favorite period instrument piece is with Christopher Hogwood and the AOAM. It can be wonderfully wild in parts although well played. It can sound bare as the number of instruments are drastically reduced. Not a desert island recording but great fun. It has a chamber ensemble quality and every player is required to stand out. No hiding places! Early digital. Can one have too many versions?


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## premont

Tom Formanek said:


> If you can find it on this side of the Pacific, RCA Red Seal once released a version by the Paillard Chamber Orchestra with Maurice Andre and Jean Pierre Rampal in the mix. It was a larger, modern version but energetic and refined. It is not in the current catalog state-side. I keep hoping Erato will pick up the rights as they did to other Paillard recordings. My favorite period instrument piece is with Christopher Hogwood and the AOAM. It can be wonderfully wild in parts although well played. It can sound bare as the number of instruments are drastically reduced. Not a desert island recording but great fun. It has a chamber ensemble quality and every player is required to stand out. No hiding places! Early digital. Can one have too many versions?


This with André, Pierlot, Rampal, Jarry et.c.:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564613865

Later Paillard recorded another version with (among others) Thierry Caens on trumpet, but still Gerard Jarry on violin. "Thanks" to generally weaker soloists this version is somewhat less exiting, though still listenable.

https://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Brandenb...67495825&sr=1-4&keywords=brandenburg+paillard


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## Pugg

Tom Formanek said:


> If you can find it on this side of the Pacific, RCA Red Seal once released a version by the Paillard Chamber Orchestra with Maurice Andre and Jean Pierre Rampal in the mix. It was a larger, modern version but energetic and refined. It is not in the current catalog state-side. I keep hoping Erato will pick up the rights as they did to other Paillard recordings. My favorite period instrument piece is with Christopher Hogwood and the AOAM. It can be wonderfully wild in parts although well played. It can sound bare as the number of instruments are drastically reduced. Not a desert island recording but great fun. It has a chamber ensemble quality and every player is required to stand out. No hiding places! Early digital. Can one have too many versions?


Nice first post, welcome on Talk Classical .


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## maudia

Trevor Pinnock with European Brandenburg Ensemble is one of my favourites.


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## Lyricus

Did I just miss it or did no one mention this recording?


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## premont

Lyricus said:


> Did I just miss it or did no one mention this recording?


What about the 100+ recordings of these works, which also should be mentioned?


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## Pugg

premont said:


> What about the 100+ recordings of these works, which also should be mentioned?


Ouch............:tiphat:


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## ArtMusic




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## realdealblues

Most of the time I still reach for Karl Richter








Surprisingly I actually really like Karajan's recording from the 60's. If Karajan gets a mention for Bach at all it's usually his later recording but I really like the warmth in this one and I don't mind the slower tempos at all.















I've got about 20-30 recordings of the Brandenburgs and I can't say there is a definitive recording for me at this point though.


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## chesapeake bay

realdealblues said:


> Most of the time I still reach for Karl Richter
> View attachment 86317


I was going to mention Richter as well, very pleasant to listen to. The one caveat is that the Harpsichord is comparatively quite in the solo sections, though Richter is so good it really doesn't bother me, just turn it up


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## Mal

I seem to have lost my HIPness so I thought I'd retire Pinnock and sample MI versions of the first concerto. I found Richter too rigid in bad sound, and Suzuki strangely mannered. I liked Britten, Pommer, and Guttler and will be exploring their full sets in the not too distant future.


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## Pugg

Britten and Peter Schreier for me .


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## joen_cph

Digging up the olde thread, I´ll mention Max Pommer and also Robert Haydon Clark. 

I´d probably prefer them to the others I´ve got (Neel, Münchinger, Karajan, Casals, Ristenpart, Leonhardt, Harnoncourt, Richter - all LPs).


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## Merl

2 total opposites for me - Britten and Butt. I return to the Butt / Dunedin recordings with greater frequency though. That low pitch is so unique.


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## hpowders

The first Trevor Pinnock is the best Brandenburg set I have ever heard.


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## Pugg

realdealblues said:


> Surprisingly I actually really like Karajan's recording from the 60's. If Karajan gets a mention for Bach at all it's usually his later recording but I really like the warmth in this one and I don't mind the slower tempos at all.
> View attachment 86318
> 
> View attachment 86319
> 
> 
> I've got about 20-30 recordings of the Brandenburgs and I can't say there is a definitive recording for me at this point though.


I like those 60's recordings also, much better than his later recording.


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## bharbeke

Besides Busch, what other recordings do posters know of with no harpsichord whatsoever? Thanks.


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## Bulldog

ArtMusic said:


>


There are many wonderful period instrument Brandenburgs on disc, but the Goebel is my favorite. MI versions leave me cold; the strings sound all wrong.


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## Pugg

Bulldog said:


> There are many wonderful period instrument Brandenburgs on disc, but the Goebel is my favorite. MI versions leave me cold; the strings sound all wrong.


They have to tune them more.:lol:


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## pcnog11

DrMike said:


> Pinnock has a couple of recordings - an older one with the English Concert on Archiv, which I enjoy, and a newer one with the European Brandenburg Ensemble on Avie which I haven't heard, but have read good things about. Pinnock, to me, is a good, solid HIP conductor, and I have generally enjoyed his works - they just aren't always my favorites.
> 
> I don't know the Abbado version - but I do have some of his other recordings with his Orchestra Mozart. I was highly disappointed with their recordings of Mozart's symphonies, but love their recording with Giuliano Carmignola of Mozart's Violin Concertos and Symphonia conertante. I suspect it was Carmignola that added to the improvement, and I love Carmignola's works, so having him on board for the Brandenburgs might just do it. I might look into this one myself.


The recording from Pinnock sound so different than other previously heard. Archiv did a great job in capturing them!


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## Brahmsian Colors

Raymond Leppard with the English Chamber Orchestra
Ton Koopman with the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra


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## Pugg

Haydn67 said:


> Raymond Leppard with the English Chamber Orchestra
> Ton Koopman with the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra


Very different those two Haydn67 .


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## Brahmsian Colors

Pugg said:


> Very different those two Haydn67 .


Yes. While Leppard's exemplifies the more modern approach instrumentally, Koopman showcases original or "authentic" instrumentation.


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## Lyricus

premont said:


> What about the 100+ recordings of these works, which also should be mentioned?


When they rise to the quality of this HIP, why not?


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

Paillards Brandenburg is my favourite with Leppard second. I've listened to quite a few before coming to a conclusion.


----------



## hpowders

The first Trevor Pinnock with the English Concert.

Stay away from his later try.


----------



## bigshot

I think you can pretty much throw a dart at a wall full of CDs and do a decent job of finding a good Brandenburg. If you want the "best" one according to you, you're going to have to buy a bunch, listen for yourself and decide.


----------



## Pugg

bigshot said:


> I think you can pretty much throw a dart at a wall full of CDs and do a decent job of finding a good Brandenburg. If you want the "best" one according to you, you're going to have to buy a bunch, listen for yourself and decide.


As true as it sound and may be, what 's your ultimate recording?


----------



## bigshot

For Baroque music in particular I don't really have favorite recordings. There's such a huge spectrum of interpretation that I like a whole bunch... The range goes from The Bach Collegium Japan / Suzuki's precision to the Karajan 60s plushness that was mentioned before, to Menuhin's spirited live recording from the late 50s. I think I have over a dozen different ones... and the only one I don't like is Furtwangler (but it sure is a fascinating curate's egg).


----------



## lluissineu

Love Leppard and pinnock as well. I've also listened to Marriner, Harnoncourt, Richter...


----------



## JSBach85

I recently bought the Jordi Savall/Le Concert des Nations in AliaVox recording:









It's difficult to find an outstanding cast like this: Fabio Biondi, Pierre Hantai, Marc Hantai, Alfredo Bernardini, Paolo Grazzi, Josep Borras, Bruno Cocset, Jordi Savall. Truly enjoyable, currently is among my favourites.

Do someone listened to Suzuki recording that comes with overtures? Is currently among my future purchasings.


----------



## Pugg

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Paillards Brandenburg is my favourite with Leppard second. I've listened to quite a few before coming to a conclusion.


I found this not so long ago on Vinyl, mint condition.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn




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## Oldhoosierdude

I actually heard #1 on a radio program several years back. Finding it on cd was an adventure at the time. Its available now though. . I can't determine when it was recorded 1958, 1963,1972?


Pugg said:


> I found this not so long ago on Vinyl, mint condition.


----------



## Pugg

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I actually heard #1 on a radio program several years back. Finding it on cd was an adventure at the time. Its available now though. . I can't determine when it was recorded 1958, 1963,1972?


I just checked, nothing about recording dates on the vinyl set, sorry.


----------



## premont

QUOTE=Oldhoosierdude;1214581]I actually heard #1 on a radio program several years back. Finding it on cd was an adventure at the time. Its available now though. . I can't determine when it was recorded 1958, 1963,1972?[/QUOTE]

Paillard has made two recordings of the Brandenburgs.

*The first *for Erato 1973 (LP) with Maurice André, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Pierre Pierlot, Gérard Jarry, Anne Marie Beckensteiner among others. Rereleased on CD here:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-JS-Brandenburg-Concertos-2CD/dp/B00V8V4588

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Pailliard-Jean-Francois-2.htm

On the Bach cantatas site it is mentioned that the pictures from the recording sessions are from 1958. But this must be wrong, as the musicians are too old for that date. Jarry e.g. was born in 1936 and would then have been only 22 on the pictures. And also he did not become concertmaster of Paillard's orchestra until 1969. So the recording date is 1973, in accordance with the fact, that I acquired the LP's in 1974, and that the recording was said to be new at that time. The sound is also much too good for 1958.

*The second *released an RCA 1990 (CD only) with Thierry Caens, Maxence Larrieu, Thomas Indermühle, Gérard Jarry and Richard Siegel, rather rare to day:

https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Brandenb...90867265&sr=1-6&keywords=paillard+brandenburg

Denon has released a set, which seems to be identical with the Erato release, which is as expected:

https://www.amazon.fr/BACH-BRANDENB...0866945&sr=1-12&keywords=paillard+brandenburg,


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

Thank you! I was curious as a photo of the back of an album stated 1958 and 1972 (or 73) it was difficult to read. Also one album cover said it was Paillard Chamber Orchestra and another said Chambre something orchestra but 1972. The release and re-release seems to have an odd history with some being import to the US.
I do know that the version with Rampal is the one I prefer.
Thanks again. [AQUOTE=premont;1214646]QUOTE=Oldhoosierdude;1214581]I actually heard #1 on a radio program several years back. Finding it on cd was an adventure at the time. Its available now though. . I can't determine when it was recorded 1958, 1963,1972?[/QUOTE]

Paillard has made two recordings of the Brandenburgs.

*The first *for Erato 1973 (LP) with Maurice André, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Pierre Pierlot, Gérard Jarry, Anne Marie Beckensteiner among others. Rereleased on CD here:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-JS-Brandenburg-Concertos-2CD/dp/B00V8V4588

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Pailliard-Jean-Francois-2.htm

On the Bach cantatas site it is mentioned that the pictures from the recording sessions are from 1958. But this must be wrong, as the musicians are too old for that date. Jarry e.g. was born in 1936 and would then have been only 22 on the pictures. And also he did not become concertmaster of Paillard's orchestra until 1969. So the recording date is 1973, in accordance with the fact, that I acquired the LP's in 1974, and that the recording was said to be new at that time. The sound is also much too good for 1958.

*The second *released an RCA 1990 (CD only) with Thierry Caens, Maxence Larrieu, Thomas Indermühle, Gérard Jarry and Richard Siegel, rather rare to day:

https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Brandenb...90867265&sr=1-6&keywords=paillard+brandenburg

Denon has released a set, which seems to be identical with the Erato release, which is as expected:

https://www.amazon.fr/BACH-BRANDENB...0866945&sr=1-12&keywords=paillard+brandenburg,[/QUOTE]


----------



## Klassik

Pugg said:


> I Musici doing a very good job.


I'm thinking about buying this one to upgrade my Brandenburg Concerto recordings. I've heard complaints about the audio quality on it though. It seems okay on YouTube, but YouTube's sound quality does not reveal everything. Any thoughts about it in that regard? I know the violin concertos included with this set were recorded some years earlier than the Brandenburg Concertos so maybe the quality on those aren't as good. I'm not as picky as some are about older analog recordings especially since many of the best recordings of the Brandenburg Concertos seem to be older analog recordings.


----------



## jegreenwood

Pugg said:


> I Musici doing a very good job.


There's a guy who posts frequently on another forum who has the largest Bach music library of anyone I know. I often disagree with him, but he says of his several dozen recordings of the Brandeburgs, I Musici was the worst. And in this instance, of the half dozen or so I have to concur that it disappointed me the most. It lacks vivacity - so surprising for this group. Maybe they just do better with Italian composers.


----------



## Klassik

jegreenwood said:


> And in this instance, of the half dozen or so I have to concur that it disappointed me the most. It lacks vivacity - so surprising for this group.


Interesting, thanks for the information. What are your preferences out of the ones you have and why?

I know everyone has different tastes, but I'm trying to get a good qualitative feel for which recordings would best fit my tastes.


----------



## jegreenwood

My favorite is Pinnock. I like Jordi Savall's as well. A lot of people I know rave about the Concerto Italiano recording. If I wanted to buy another set, I'd be looking at that (and it's available on Tidal). At this point I listen mostly to HIP Bach. I used to have a set by Neville Marriner and the Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields that I think I gave away when I was being particularly obnoxious about non-HIP. Now I wish I hadn't.


----------



## Klassik

jegreenwood said:


> My favorite is Pinnock.


Interesting. Do you have the 1982 recordings with Pinnock/The English Concert? It looks like these are available from Archiv Productions and the inexpensive DG Virtuoso labels. I prefer HIP Bach as well, but I'm having a bit of a difficult time nailing down a good recording of the Brandenburg Concertos. You would think that it wouldn't be so difficult given the popularity of the works.


----------



## premont

jegreenwood said:


> There's a guy who posts frequently on another forum who has the largest Bach music library of anyone I know. I often disagree with him, but he says of his several dozen recordings of the Brandeburgs, I Musici was the worst. And in this instance, of the half dozen or so I have to concur that it disappointed me the most. It lacks vivacity - so surprising for this group. Maybe they just do better with Italian composers.


I have heard all existing Brandenburg concerto sets except two. In my opinion I Musici is not that bad. Much worse exists.

By the way they made two recordings af the set, both for Philips.

The first 1964 led from the solo violin by Felix Ayo.

The second 1984 (digital) led from the solo violin by Pina Carmirelli.

These two recordings differ a bit. The first is solid and almost German in conception, makes me associate to e.g. Münchinger's first recording (1949/50). The second is more Italian and sweet. Of these two I prefer the second.

The second:

https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Brandenb...0909382&sr=1-3&keywords=brandenburgs+I+musici


----------



## premont

Klassik said:


> I'm thinking about buying this one to upgrade my Brandenburg Concerto recordings. I've heard complaints about the audio quality on it though. It seems okay on YouTube, but YouTube's sound quality does not reveal everything. Any thoughts about it in that regard? I know the violin concertos included with this set were recorded some years earlier than the Brandenburg Concertos so maybe the quality on those aren't as good. I'm not as picky as some are about older analog recordings especially since many of the best recordings of the Brandenburg Concertos seem to be older analog recordings.


But I Musici would still not be my first choice.

What kind of performance do you look for? Preauthentic, large ensemble, small ensemble, one player pr part, period instruments, modern instruments, German style, French style, Italian style, HIP, Non-HIP et.c. ?


----------



## Klassik

premont said:


> But I Musici would still not be my first choice.
> 
> What kind of performance do you look for? Preauthentic, large ensemble, small ensemble, one player pr part, period instruments, modern instruments, German style, French style, Italian style, HIP, Non-HIP et.c. ?


For Baroque, probably HIP, period instruments, German style, with a small ensemble. That said, I'm open to modern instruments and a larger ensemble if it sounds right to me. Of course, I know that's hard to explain. Perhaps some suggestions can be offered and I can sample the suggestions to try to find the best one for me.

EDIT: Newer or older recordings, it does not matter to me. That said, I do put an emphasis on fidelity so that is of some importance to me.


----------



## Bulldog

Check out Reinhard Goebel on Archiv - wonderful performances matched by his Orchestral Suites.


----------



## Klassik

Bulldog said:


> Check out Reinhard Goebel on Archiv - wonderful performances matched by his Orchestral Suites.


Interesting suggestion, I'll have to see if I can sample that one.

Has anyone tried the Hogwood/The Academy of Ancient Music version? Some posters mentioned it earlier, but didn't really say much about it.


----------



## Bulldog

Klassik said:


> Has anyone tried the Hogwood/The Academy of Ancient Music version? Some posters mentioned it earlier, but didn't really say much about it.


I have the Hogwood and it's very good, about on the same level as Pinnock.


----------



## jegreenwood

premont said:


> I have heard all existing Brandenburg concerto sets except two. In my opinion I Musici is not that bad. Much worse exists.
> 
> By the way they made two recordings af the set, both for Philips.
> 
> The first 1964 led from the solo violin by Felix Ayo.
> 
> The second 1984 (digital) led from the solo violin by Pina Carmirelli.
> 
> These two recordings differ a bit. The first is solid and almost German in conception, makes me associate to e.g. Münchinger's first recording (1949/50). The second is more Italian and sweet. Of these two I prefer the second.
> 
> The second:
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Brandenb...0909382&sr=1-3&keywords=brandenburgs+I+musici


I have the Ayo.


----------



## jegreenwood

Klassik said:


> Interesting. Do you have the 1982 recordings with Pinnock/The English Concert? It looks like these are available from Archiv Productions and the inexpensive DG Virtuoso labels. I prefer HIP Bach as well, but I'm having a bit of a difficult time nailing down a good recording of the Brandenburg Concertos. You would think that it wouldn't be so difficult given the popularity of the works.


I have this. About $25 at Amazon. You get the Brandenburgs, the keyboard and violin concertos and the Orchestral Suites. Plus 1 or 2 additional works, which I believe are reconstructed.


----------



## Pugg

jegreenwood said:


> There's a guy who posts frequently on another forum who has the largest Bach music library of anyone I know. I often disagree with him, but he says of his several dozen recordings of the Brandeburgs, I Musici was the worst. And in this instance, of the half dozen or so I have to concur that it disappointed me the most. It lacks vivacity - so surprising for this group. Maybe they just do better with Italian composers.


And Vivaldi is from......


----------



## jegreenwood

Pugg said:


> And Vivaldi is from......


I like I Musici's Four Seasons. But I especially like their Corelli. In fact it's my only recording of his Concerti Grossi Op. 6. But the Bach doesn't cut it for me.


----------



## Pugg

jegreenwood said:


> I like I Musici's Four Seasons. But I especially like their Corelli. In fact it's my only recording of his Concerti Grossi Op. 6. But the Bach doesn't cut it for me.


By all means, I do respect that, I thought this was about the Four seasons.


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## premont

jegreenwood said:


> I have the Ayo.


Yes, I suspected that from your description.

Pugg has the Carmirelli.


----------



## premont

Klassik said:


> For Baroque, probably HIP, period instruments, German style, with a small ensemble. That said, I'm open to modern instruments and a larger ensemble if it sounds right to me. Of course, I know that's hard to explain. Perhaps some suggestions can be offered and I can sample the suggestions to try to find the best one for me.
> 
> EDIT: Newer or older recordings, it does not matter to me. That said, I do put an emphasis on fidelity so that is of some importance to me.


Some suggestions for recordings of the Brandenburgs.

Modern instruments, small ensemble, preauthentic somewhat HIP influenced:

Combattimento Consort, Amsterdam / *Jan Willem de Vriend

*https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/1841608

Kölner Kammerorkester / *Müller-Brühl:
*
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...randenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-36/hnum/3201530

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-4-5/hnum/3263594

Saarländisches Kammerorkester / *Karl Ristenpart

*https://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Oeuvres-...id=1490950577&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+ristenpart
This box also contains the orchestral suites, Art of Fugue and some concertos.

Period instruments, small ensemble, HIP-approach:

Linde Consort / *Hans-Martin Linde

*https://www.amazon.de/Brandenburgis...1490951561&sr=1-1&keywords=linde+consort+bach

The English Concert / *Trevor Pinnock

*https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Brandenb...&qid=1490951800&sr=1-68&keywords=bach+pinnock

https://www.amazon.de/Brandenburgis...&qid=1490952879&sr=1-70&keywords=bach+pinnock

Swiss Baroque Soloists / *Andres Gabetta

*https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/7618844

Brandenburg Consort / *Goodman
*
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/8384139

Hofkapelle München / *Lotter
*
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/8384139

To mention only a few of my favorites. There are many others and it is difficult to set a limit.


----------



## premont

Klassik said:


> Has anyone tried the Hogwood/The Academy of Ancient Music version? Some posters mentioned it earlier, but didn't really say much about it.


They play earlier versions of concertos no. 1 and 5, so even if the playing is fine (particularly in concertos 2 and 6), this version can only be additional to other versions.


----------



## Klassik

Excellent stuff, I'm going to sample these and see what works best for me. I really appreciate the detailed recommendations that everyone has provided. I'm learning a lot here.

In an ideal world, I'd just buy several versions, but I have to be mindful of budgets and space. I'll take my time and see what will satisfy me long term (hopefully).


----------



## DavidA

Pinnock is pretty good


----------



## Pugg

premont said:


> Yes, I suspected that from your description.
> 
> Pugg has the Carmirelli.


I do have both.


----------



## premont

Pugg said:


> I do have both.


Well, I did not know, that you also have the Ayo. What do you think of them, and how they differ (see my post 96 in this thread)?


----------



## Pugg

premont said:


> Well, I did not know, that you also have the Ayo. What do you think of them, and how they differ (see my post 96 in this thread)?


I do think we got are wires crossed, I do have both four seasons. ( prefer the Carmirelli)
Not the BB. concertos. ( I do have the box as mention in your post 96)


----------



## premont

Pugg said:


> I do think we got are wires crossed, I do have both four seasons. ( prefer the Carmirelli)
> Not the BB. concertos. ( I do have the box as mention in your post 96)


Oh. now I understand (at last  ).

Concerning Ayo's two recordings of the Four seasons with I Musici the first (1956 mono - I Musici's international breakthrough) is far better than the later stereo recording. Did you know, that I Musici other than these recorded the Four seasons four times with different leading violinists? Roberto Michelucci, Salvatore Accardo, Federico Agostini and Pina Carmirelli.


----------



## JAS

Not much love for the Richard Egarr version? (I was/am thinking of buying it.) I very much like his Goldberg.


----------



## premont

JAS said:


> Not much love for the Richard Egarr version? (I was/am thinking of buying it.) I very much like his Goldberg.


I was very close to include Egarr's recording in my list, because I find it very rewarding. Dark (low pitch), sonorous and calm - in my book nice characteristics. But where to set the limit? Ideally everybody with interest in these works ought to hear all (ca 150) sets to decide for themselves.


----------



## Bulldog

JAS said:


> Not much love for the Richard Egarr version? (I was/am thinking of buying it.) I very much like his Goldberg.


I tend to be reluctant to acquire Egarr recordings. I have his Goldbergs and WTC; they didn't sit well with me.


----------



## jegreenwood

premont said:


> I was very close to include Egarr's recording in my list, because I find it very rewarding. Dark (low pitch), sonorous and calm - in my book nice characteristics. But where to set the limit? Ideally everybody with interest in these works ought to hear all (ca 150) sets to decide for themselves.


Listened to some of the Egarr today. I like it, but it's not my first choice.

Having said that, I listened to the Brandenburgs so frequently in my youth, I don't play them that often anymore. Not tired of it, but just exploring other music.


----------



## premont

jegreenwood said:


> Listened to some of the Egarr today. I like it, but it's not my first choice.


Nor is it mine, but maybe no. 15 -20. However this does not prevent me from liking it very much.


----------



## JAS

I have long had the Marriner (with the suites), but was thinking about an HIP version.


----------



## hpowders

JAS said:


> I have long had the Marriner (with the suites), but was thinking about an HIP version.


You won't do better than the English Concert directed by Trevor Pinnock.

Trevor Pinnock made a recent re-make with a different band, but it is not as good.


----------



## Bulldog

Bulldog said:


> I tend to be reluctant to acquire Egarr recordings. I have his Goldbergs and WTC; they didn't sit well with me.


Well, I just listened to Egarr's Brandenburg Concerto No. 1. I found the first three movements excellent - plenty of vitality and expressiveness. However, it's as if Egarr took a sedative just prior to conducting the wonderful and varied 4th movement; I felt he was too calm and demure except for the final trio. Versions from Goebel, Pinnock, Hogwood and few others are more to my liking.


----------



## premont

hpowders said:


> You won't do better than the English Concert directed by Trevor Pinnock.
> 
> Trevor Pinnock made a recent re-make with a different band, but it is not as good.


Completely agreed as one can see on my recommendations-list above.


----------



## premont

Bulldog said:


> Well, I just listened to Egarr's Brandenburg Concerto No. 1. I found the first three movements excellent - plenty of vitality and expressiveness. However, it's as if Egarr took a sedative just prior to conducting the wonderful and varied 4th movement; I felt he was too calm and demure except for the final trio. Versions from Goebel, Pinnock, Hogwood and few others are more to my liking.


Please listen to the other concertos too, and preferably more times.


----------



## Pugg

premont said:


> Oh. now I understand (at last  ).
> 
> Concerning Ayo's two recordings of the Four seasons with I Musici the first (1956 mono - I Musici's international breakthrough) is far better than the later stereo recording. Did you know, that I Musici other than these recorded the Four seasons four times with different leading violinists? Roberto Michelucci, Salvatore Accardo, Federico Agostini and Pina Carmirelli.


I only know ; Accardo/ Carmirelli.
It's not that strange they recorded so much, I do like the sound though.


----------



## Klassik

Any thoughts about the Pieter-Jan Belder/Musica Amphion version out of The Netherlands? Well, I guess I'll be able to provide my own review soon enough. They had a few new sealed ones for $6 at the local Half Price Books so I decided to roll the dice and take a gamble. A dollar a concerto isn't a bad deal even if it isn't quite up to my liking, but we'll see.


----------



## Pugg

Klassik said:


> Any thoughts about the Pieter-Jan Belder/Musica Amphion version out of The Netherlands? Well, I guess I'll be able to provide my own review soon enough. They had a few new sealed ones for $6 at the local Half Price Books so I decided to roll the dice and take a gamble. A dollar a concerto isn't a bad deal even if it isn't quite up to my liking, but we'll see.


I do think I saw the guy once on Dutch T.V, not sure if it was about BB concertos though.


----------



## premont

Klassik said:


> Any thoughts about the Pieter-Jan Belder/Musica Amphion version out of The Netherlands?


Relaxed, maybe not highly individual, but _letting the music speak for itself_. Very enjoyable.


----------



## JSBach85

Not a referral version though but a good economic, lively and what is more important: period instrument performance is this recording by Swiss Baroque Soloists:


----------



## Pugg

Klassik said:


> Any thoughts about the Pieter-Jan Belder/Musica Amphion version out of The Netherlands? Well, I guess I'll be able to provide my own review soon enough. They had a few new sealed ones for $6 at the local Half Price Books so I decided to roll the dice and take a gamble. A dollar a concerto isn't a bad deal even if it isn't quite up to my liking, but we'll see.


Presto has a Brilliant sale, for that price you can't go wrong.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Brilliant+Classics/93125


----------



## premont

JSBach85 said:


> Not a referral version though but a good economic, *lively* and what is more important: period instrument performance is this recording by Swiss Baroque Soloists:


Yes, and it is just that liveliness, which never is overdone - in contrast to versions by e.g. Fasolis and Stryncl, which makes the set interesting, apart from the fact that it is very well played by a small group of musicians.


----------



## hpowders

I just sent away for Trevor Pinnock's remake of the Brandenburg Concertos with the European Brandenburg Ensemble.

I will report back sometime next week after listening to it.


----------



## Pugg

Pugg said:


> Presto has a Brilliant sale, for that price you can't go wrong.
> 
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Brilliant+Classics/93125


I've found them even cheaper if one looks around, ordered two, for presents.


----------



## AfterHours

hpowders said:


> I just sent away for Trevor Pinnock's remake of the Brandenburg Concertos with the European Brandenburg Ensemble.
> 
> I will report back sometime next week after listening to it.


Though with the Brandenburg's the standard for recordings has become so high that there are so many virtual equals these days, this latest Pinnock is a truly great, idiomatic set that you can't go wrong with. Its 5th in particular, may be peerless. And the 3rd, perhaps the same or close. All of them are superb.


----------



## hpowders

AfterHours said:


> Though with the Brandenburg's the standard for recordings has become so high that there are so many virtual equals these days, this latest Pinnock is a truly great, idiomatic set that you can't go wrong with. Its 5th in particular, may be peerless. And the 3rd, perhaps the same or close. All of them are superb.


Yes. HIP performance has improved so much over the last 20 years, it's an embarrassment of riches out there.

I received the latest Pinnock yesterday. Time to listen to it.


----------



## Merl

I'm currently playing the Clark / Consort of London account in the car. Modern instruments but nicely balanced. It's not as immediate to me as Alessandrini, Il Giardino Armonico, Butt, etc) but I do like it a lot. I've collected quite a few accounts (I started off with Britten and then Menuhin) but I really like that Butt set the best at the moment. It's just lovely. That opinion will probably change very soon. :lol:

PS. Has anyone mentioned Scherchen's lovely, laid-back set with the Vienna State? I love that set too.

PPS. Just had a quick listen to Abbado. Not bad. Speedy performances too.


----------



## hpowders

Trevor Pinnock directing the European Brandenburg Ensemble.

Just finished listening to this, Pinnock's second go round.

Just what one might expect.

A crack HIP band. Energetic, perfectly integrated performances.


----------



## Heck148

I go for small ensemble, modern instrument performances....i don't much care for original instruments, and i really don't care to hear the trumpets and horns struggle with the stratospheric trumpet and horn parts. The Marriner AOSMF set is good overall...tho he uses solo horn (Tuckwell) on #2 instead of trumpet. The Levine/CSO Ravinia disc is great for #s 2 and 5...the amazing Bud Herseth makes the trumpet part sound easy...Maurice Andre is very good also. I also like the Reiner/NY Chamber group complete set, for numbers 3 - 6...these were done in early 50s, small ensemble, an early demonstration of the HIP style that would emerge so prolifically some 25 - 30 years later.


----------



## AfterHours

I decided to revisit the Linde Consort Brandenburgs today, which I hadn't checked out in years, and was pleasantly surprised at just how exceptional they are. I remembered them being great, but among so many attempts to sound "new" especially over the last decade or so, they really seem to stand out a bit more now than they did before, being so idiomatic and capturing the essence of the works so clearly expressed without added tempo or undue flair (not that I don't like that in other renditions). I may even prefer them to Pinnock and Alessandrini, and Savall. All 4 would probably comprise my Brandenburg "Mt Rushmore". Suzuki's, perhaps, too. And then there's... (Geez, is there any more set of works in all of Classical that feature such congestion at the top?)


----------



## Klassik

AfterHours said:


> I decided to revisit the Linde Consort Brandenburgs today, which I hadn't checked out in years, and was pleasantly surprised at just how exceptional they are.


The shame of it is that the local Half Price Books had this recording in their stacks for a very fair price, but it was missing the 2nd CD. They probably didn't realize that because they normally don't sell stuff with missing items. It sounds good sampling it on YouTube. Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems to have a slightly reverberant sound quality to it. Anyway, I ended up buying the Belder version during that visit which I still have not listened to yet. I'm looking forward to it though given the positive feedback some have given it.


----------



## DavidA

hpowders said:


> View attachment 93576
> 
> 
> Trevor Pinnock directing the European Brandenburg Ensemble.
> 
> Just finished listening to this, Pinnock's second go round.
> 
> Just what one might expect.
> 
> A crack HIP band. Energetic, perfectly integrated performances.


Have Pinnock's first set - very rec0mmendable


----------



## Pugg

Heck148 said:


> I go for small ensemble, modern instrument performances....i don't much care for original instruments, and i really don't care to hear the trumpets and horns struggle with the stratospheric trumpet and horn parts. The Marriner AOSMF set is good overall...tho he uses solo horn (Tuckwell) on #2 instead of trumpet. The Levine/CSO Ravinia disc is great for #s 2 and 5...the amazing Bud Herseth makes the trumpet part sound easy...Maurice Andre is very good also. I also like the Reiner/NY Chamber group complete set, for numbers 3 - 6...these were done in early 50s, small ensemble, an early demonstration of the HIP style that would emerge so prolifically some 25 - 30 years later.


Amen to this!!!


----------



## hpowders

Truly incomparable.

I love the way Trevor Pinnock kicks it up a notch a half minute before the end of the great three minute harpsichord cadenza in the first movement of the D Major Brandenburg Concerto No. 5. Totally kinetic! Totally exciting!


----------



## AfterHours

hpowders said:


> View attachment 93597
> 
> 
> Truly incomparable.
> 
> I love the way Trevor Pinnock kicks it up a notch a half minute before the end of the great three minute harpsichord cadenza in the first movement of the D Major Brandenburg Concerto No. 5. Totally kinetic! Totally exciting!


Yes, love that :tiphat:


----------



## Pugg

J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concertos 1 - 6, Claudio Abbado

Just ordered this one .


----------



## JSBach85

Merl said:


> 2 total opposites for me - Britten and Butt. I return to the Butt / Dunedin recordings with greater frequency though. That low pitch is so unique.


I ordered this recording, I read good opinions about Dunedin Consort that is claimed to be the most authentic performers for Bach works. Surely there are better performances but this one gives the feeling of what an outstanding period performance might sound like.


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## DavidA

Pinnock is pretty good


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## JSBach85

DavidA said:


> Pinnock is pretty good


Which one?


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## JSBach85

I am so weak... I couldn't resist and I've just ordered this recording:










I will give you my opinion when I'll get it and listen to it. Freiburger Barockorchester is becoming one of my favourite baroque ensembles.


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## JSBach85

I may have more than 20 recordings and never get bored of Brandenburg Concertos. Nobody mentioned this Cafe Zimmermann recording.










Here the samples:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B014MQN1KI/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk

There are too many must have recordings!


----------



## JSBach85

Lyricus said:


> Did I just miss it or did no one mention this recording?


Another reference recording. In my opinion there are better performances but Akademie für Alte Musik stands among the top 10.


----------



## The Wolf

Historical Recording...








In this, first Viola da Gamba is played by Harnoncourt...








First Richter's Recording...








And the second...








The first by Harnoncourt...


----------



## The Wolf

Leonhardt with Bruggen and Kuijken...








The second by Karajan...








Suzuki








The first with Goebel...








And the second/new...


----------



## Josquin13

That's a difficult question. There are too many good Brandenburg Concerto recordings out there to confidently pick a first choice, but I would mention Pinnock 1 and 2, Leonhardt-Bruggen-Kuijken-Blysma & co.(who are favorites in the 5th Concerto), Hogwood (see qualification below), and the Linde Consort as among my top favorites over the decades--along with, more recently, Florilegium (who are given audiophile sound quality), and Hofkapelle München, led by Rüdiger Lotter: both of which I've enjoyed a lot lately. (I've not heard the Freiburg Barockorchester's set, but they're usually excellent. Nor have I heard Ton Koopman's set with the Amsterdam Baroque Soloists, but think very, very highly of their 4 Orchestral Suites on Erato.) 

For more challenging fare, that is, for those that enjoy greater risk taking in their music, I'd suggest sampling Il Giardino Armonico (whose Handel Concerti Grossi Op. 6 recently impressed me)--though probably not as a first choice, and Musica Antiqua Köln, who are overall excellent, & may be a first choice, except that they opt for some breathless tempi in two movements (well, maybe just one, it depends on your tastes). Concerto Italiano is very good too, led by Rinaldo Alessandrini; while others have liked Harnoncourt's Teldec set from the 1980s (I myself like the valveless brass playing on Harnoncourt's recording--but overall found the sound a bit dry). But, whatever you buy, I'd recommend that you avoid Gardiner's recent set, which I regretted purchasing.

On modern instruments (a separate category in my view), I've long had a soft spot for Sir Neville Marriner's controversial first recording on Phillips (the music making is more vital & lively than Marriner's 2nd recording--with its 'all-star' cast: Szeryng, Rampal, etc., which I find boring). Marriner, like Hogwood, opted to use Bach's original truncated edition, which was first presented to the Margrave of Brandenburg. He also has David Munrow playing the recorder!, which won't be to all tastes (I didn't mind). That said, I've also liked the Lucerne Festival Strings in this music, led by Rudolf Baumgartner and violinist Josef Suk, but that is old-school Bach playing, albeit performed by some fine musicians. In truth, I'm more of an HIP guy these days, so long as the tempo isn't ridiculously fast (which can happen).


----------



## Pugg

very safe and good, go for it.


----------



## JSBach85

AfterHours said:


> I decided to revisit the Linde Consort Brandenburgs today, which I hadn't checked out in years, and was pleasantly surprised at just how exceptional they are. I remembered them being great, but among so many attempts to sound "new" especially over the last decade or so, they really seem to stand out a bit more now than they did before, being so idiomatic and capturing the essence of the works so clearly expressed without added tempo or undue flair (not that I don't like that in other renditions).


I am listening to Linde Consort recording right now through youtube. A great reading if we consider the year when recorded. Sadly, current competition of top period instrument ensembles/orchestras is too high and I think has been surpaseed. In the negative side, I think harpsichord playing is not convincing, I usually pay attention to basso continuo and harpsichord as solo or as part of an orchestra. In the possitive side, the conducting is lively and has good tempi.


----------



## JSBach85

The Wolf said:


> View attachment 99284
> 
> Suzuki


Do you know if this recording of Suzuki:










is the same as this newer one?










In other words: Is the second recording a reissue of the first recording?

Thanks


----------



## The Wolf

JSBach85 said:


> Is the second recording a reissue of the first recording?
> 
> Thanks


Yes. Reissue on SACD (2009)...pdf pag. 46:

http://www.camerata-vocale-heidelberg.de/Brandenburgische Konzerte Tabellarium.pdf

You're welcome/por nada


----------



## Pugg

The Wolf said:


> View attachment 99283
> 
> The second by Karajan...
> 
> .


Love this one, and I say it loud and proud, music to the ears.


----------



## JSBach85

The Wolf said:


> Yes. Reissue on SACD (2009)...pdf pag. 46:
> 
> http://www.camerata-vocale-heidelberg.de/Brandenburgische Konzerte Tabellarium.pdf
> 
> You're welcome/por nada


Thank you very much for clarify. I am now thinking about Suzuki / BIS or Akademie fur Alte Musik / Harmonia Mundi recordings. Anyone that own/listened both, which one would you prefer?


----------



## The Wolf

Pugg said:


> Love this one, and I say it loud and proud, music to the ears.


Recently I got the Lp (second hand & As New) for $10.00 MXN/$0.45 € ... a good find and for almost nothing!!


----------



## The Wolf

JSBach85 said:


> Thank you very much for clarify. I am now thinking about Suzuki / BIS or Akademie fur Alte Musik / Harmonia Mundi recordings. Anyone that own/listened both, which one would you prefer?


The Suzuki recording I don't remember, but Harmonia Mundi recording is on spotify. I like both of them.

Suzuki is one of the best specialists in Bach, only below Gardiner. Bach Collegium Japan is the only HIP orchestra I've seen live and they're very good.


----------



## premont

JSBach85 said:


> Do you know if this recording of Suzuki:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is the second recording a reissue of the first recording?
> 
> *Thanks


This is a new recording of the Brandenburg concertos (let us name it Suzuki II) Among other changes the violoncello da spalla is used instead of "floor cello" in many of the concertos. This lends a lighter, less bass heavy quality particularly to concerto no. 3. The general conception however is largely unchanged.

BTW the recording of the orchestral suites is identical with the earlier released recording.


----------



## JSBach85

Finally I have 7 Brandenburg Concertos recordings: Suzuki/Bach Collegium Japan, Freiburger Barockorchester, Savall/Le Concert des Nations, Cafe Zimmermann, Butt/Dunedin Consort, Alessandrini/Concerto Italiano, Goebel/MAK, Fasolis/I Barocchisti.

This week I listened the last purchased:










Probably due to the tuning/pitch of the instruments, Freiburger Barokorchester string sounds warm and without astringencies. Conducting has more energy than Suzuki, but I rather prefer Savall, Alessandrini and Cafe Zimmermann in this aspect. The execution is impleccable but maybe too academic, lacks of spontaneity and emotional risk, features that are appreciated by most listeners. However, is an excellent recording to complement with other period instrument recordings.


----------



## Oakey

Pugg said:


> Love this one, and I say it loud and proud, music to the ears.


Just bought that one, love most of Karajan's work despite what others say.
Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Marc

There are many (very) good and satisfying recordings of this great music. Personally, I have a weak spot for the 'get out of your lazy chair and jump the world!' performances of Musica Antiqua Köln (Reinhard Goebel) and La Stravaganza Hamburg (Siegbert Rampe), issued by resp. DG/Archiv and Virgin Classics.


----------



## Muse Wanderer

Listening to the Brandenburgs as I type...

My favourite is the Jordi Savall but this Masaaki Suzuki version is a wonderful listen.

The Savall is more muscular with an exceptional darker tone and instrumental timbre. The dynamics are staggering with well seasoned fiery players who play from the heart. There is a force in the music that propels the concertos with such intensity. The 6th concerto is the real cherry on the cake - holy moly what a roller coaster. Astounding!

The Suzuki is exceptionally well recorded - BIS is renowned for their engineering. The Bach Collegium Japan have a brighter tone as they tend to favour A=460Hz as exemplified by their Bach cantata collection I love. The playing is exact, precise and at times too perfect. Suzuki manages to impart an emotionally engaging and sublime presentation of the works. The staging, imaging and resolution from my speakers is fantastic.

I may have found my ying and yang.

Savall and Suzuki, the dark and bright, the black and white

... so complementary, to die for versions of these unique concertos...


----------



## JSBach85

Muse Wanderer said:


> Listening to the Brandenburgs as I type...
> 
> My favourite is the Jordi Savall but this Masaaki Suzuki version is a wonderful listen.
> 
> The Savall is more muscular with an exceptional darker tone and instrumental timbre. The dynamics are staggering with well seasoned fiery players who play from the heart. There is a force in the music that propels the concertos with such intensity. The 6th concerto is the real cherry on the cake - holy moly what a roller coaster. Astounding!
> 
> The Suzuki is exceptionally well recorded - BIS is renowned for their engineering. The Bach Collegium Japan have a brighter tone as they tend to favour A=460Hz as exemplified by their Bach cantata collection I love. The playing is exact, precise and at times too perfect. Suzuki manages to impart an emotionally engaging and sublime presentation of the works. The staging, imaging and resolution from my speakers is fantastic.
> 
> I may have found my ying and yang.
> 
> Savall and Suzuki, the dark and bright, the black and white
> 
> ... so complementary, to die for versions of these unique concertos...


I have both recordings, Savall is among my three favourites. The musicians involved in Savall recording are among the best baroque specialists: Fabio Biondi, Hantai, Bernardini, Grazzi, Borras. I prefer Suzuki's Orchestral Suites performance over his Brandenburg Concertos. Suzuki's Brandenburg Concertos does not have a lively and dynamic conducting and performance but academically perfect with right tempos and good instrument sounds. Hopefully there are lots of amazing recordings of these concertos.


----------



## Mephisto26

JSBach85 said:


> Which one?


Hello everyone!

I am new to this very enjoyable and informative forum but have been reading a bit for some time now. I am still relatively new to classical music and my first real love was Karajan's 1963 (or was it 1962) Beethoven cycle with the Berlin Philharmonic on DG many years ago.

Recently, I became interested in the Brandenburg Concertos and seem to like the HIPs better than modern instrument recordings.

The first (listed) of the Pinnock / English Concert recordings above seems to be a good first recording to get. On a certain large online shop, I saw two individual discs in the DG virtuoso series of recordings of the Brandenburgs by the English Concert under Trevor Pinnock.

I do not find information on whether these are the same performances as on the box set. Additionally it would be interesting to know whether audio quality is the same if they are.

It would be below 9 EUR for the two CDs versus approx. 25 EUR for the box set (where the latter includes two more other pieces).

Can anyone help?

Thank you very much!


----------



## wkasimer

Mephisto26 said:


> Recently, I became interested in the Brandenburg Concertos and seem to like the HIPs better than modern instrument recordings.
> 
> The first (listed) of the Pinnock / English Concert recordings above seems to be a good first recording to get. On a certain large online shop, I saw two individual discs in the DG virtuoso series of recordings of the Brandenburgs by the English Concert under Trevor Pinnock.
> 
> I do not find information on whether these are the same performances as on the box set. Additionally it would be interesting to know whether audio quality is the same if they are.


They're the same recordings. I can't tell you about the audio quality, but I suspect that any difference would be negligible.


----------



## Ras

Mephisto26 said:


> Recently, I became interested in the Brandenburg Concertos and seem to like the HIPs better than modern instrument recordings.


Why stop with the Brandenburgs?
There are many other great concertos by Bach. 
Pinnock made a good box with the "other" concertos by Bach:
https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Concerto...8&qid=1518785281&sr=1-1&keywords=pinnock+bach

In that box the harpsichord concertos are performed on a harpsichord - not piano - if you want a piano recording I'd suggest you'd start with Glen Gould's Sony recordings. 
This seem to be the most recent re-release on cd - I have an earlier version packaged as two seperate cds:
https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Piano-Co...8785413&sr=1-20&keywords=gould+bach+concertos


----------



## Mephisto26

wkasimer said:


> They're the same recordings. I can't tell you about the audio quality, but I suspect that any difference would be negligible.


Thank you! I thought so but wanted some reassurance anyway.



Ras said:


> Why stop with the Brandenburgs?
> There are many other great concertos by Bach.
> Pinnock made a good box with the "other" concertos by Bach:
> https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Concerto...8&qid=1518785281&sr=1-1&keywords=pinnock+bach
> 
> In that box the harpsichord concertos are performed on a harpsichord - not piano - if you want a piano recording I'd suggest you'd start with Glen Gould's Sony recordings.
> This seem to be the most recent re-release on cd - I have an earlier version packaged as two seperate cds:
> https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Piano-Co...8785413&sr=1-20&keywords=gould+bach+concertos


Thank you for your suggestions! I surely do not plan to stop with the Brandenburgs. But you have to start somewhere. By the way, I already own an edition of Bach's Organ Works performed by Helmut Walcha.


----------



## Star

Mephisto26 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I am new to this very enjoyable and informative forum but have been reading a bit for some time now. I am still relatively new to classical music and my first real love was Karajan's 1963 (or was it 1962) Beethoven cycle with the Berlin Philharmonic on DG many years ago.
> 
> Recently, I became interested in the Brandenburg Concertos and seem to like the HIPs better than modern instrument recordings.
> 
> The first (listed) of the Pinnock / English Concert recordings above seems to be a good first recording to get. On a certain large online shop, I saw two individual discs in the DG virtuoso series of recordings of the Brandenburgs by the English Concert under Trevor Pinnock.
> 
> I do not find information on whether these are the same performances as on the box set. Additionally it would be interesting to know whether audio quality is the same if they are.
> 
> It would be below 9 EUR for the two CDs versus approx. 25 EUR for the box set (where the latter includes two more other pieces).
> 
> Can anyone help?
> 
> Thank you very much!


You can pick up CDs really cheap as we did with Pinnock's Brandenbergs. They are really good from early days of HIP


----------



## 13hm13

JSBach85 said:


> Finally I have 7 Brandenburg Concertos recordings: Suzuki/Bach Collegium Japan, Freiburger Barockorchester, Savall/Le Concert des Nations, Cafe Zimmermann, Butt/Dunedin Consort, Alessandrini/Concerto Italiano, Goebel/MAK, Fasolis/I Barocchisti.
> 
> This week I listened the last purchased:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably due to the tuning/pitch of the instruments, Freiburger Barokorchester string sounds warm and without astringencies. Conducting has more energy than Suzuki, but I rather prefer Savall, Alessandrini and Cafe Zimmermann in this aspect. The execution is impleccable but maybe too academic, lacks of spontaneity and emotional risk, features that are appreciated by most listeners. However, is an excellent recording to complement with other period instrument recordings.


I think this is the 2000 recording, of which a DVD (2006) was also released.

The YouTube EuroArtsChannel has up'd all of it on their channel. Here's one chunk:


----------



## Mal

DrMike said:


> Pinnock has a couple of recordings - an older one with the English Concert on Archiv, which I enjoy, and a newer one with the European Brandenburg Ensemble on Avie which I haven't heard, but have read good things about. Pinnock, to me, is a good, solid HIP conductor, and I have generally enjoyed his works - they just aren't always my favorites.


I compared the two and preferred Pinnock's later version. For me, he generates a fuller sound on the Avie recording, getting closer to non-hip versions, while maintaining the sprightliness and variety of the best hip recordings. Lots of competition though, as this thread shows. I compared quite a few on streaming services and it was difficult choosing which CD set to plump for. But I'm very happy with Pinnock and the European Brandenburg Ensemble on Avie, after several listens I don't feel the need (yet!) to go looking for better/different.


----------



## premont

13hm13 said:


> I think this is the 2000 recording, of which a DVD (2006) was also released.


No, it is a new recording, but IMO not quite as successful as the 2000 recording.


----------



## premont

Star said:


> You can pick up CDs really cheap as we did with Pinnock's *Brandenbergs*. They are really good from early days of HIP


Brandenb*u*rgs. Burg = castle, Berg = mountain.


----------



## Mal

Mephisto26 said:


> But you have to start somewhere. By the way, I already own an edition of Bach's Organ Works performed by Helmut Walcha.


Is that the later stereo edition? I've been going through it, slowly, for the past few weeks and it really is wonderful! You will find it difficult to top - so choose wisely!


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## 13hm13

What about Hogwood (may have missed in elsewhere in this thread)?...



















The Academy of Ancient Music [on period instruments]
Christopher Hogwood - harpsichord and direction
1984 -1985 L'Oiseau-Lyre CD release.


----------



## Mal

I have The Academy of Ancient Music [on period instruments] Christopher Hogwood for the Orchestral Suites, I like it a lot...


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## 13hm13

*Tacet*

The German audiophile label TACET produced this ...










...on 3-LP set ...










... on DVD-Audio (with surround sound!)...










on SACD (also surround) ...









... and on Blu-Ray, too.

No, I don't work for Tacet! But I do own a few of their titles. The sound is outstanding and the performances usually are v. good.


----------



## DavidA

The version by John Elliott Gardiner was the recommended recording of BBC Record Review. I have it and it's certainly worth a listen. Apparently Gardiner 'directed' rather than conducted the performances.


----------



## Josquin13

13hm13 said:


> What about Hogwood (may have missed in elsewhere in this thread)?...
> 
> The Academy of Ancient Music [on period instruments]
> Christopher Hogwood - harpsichord and direction
> 1984 -1985 L'Oiseau-Lyre CD release.


That's a good version, however, you should know that Hogwood chose to use the first, earlier version of the 6 Brandenburg Concertos, which is based upon later copies made by Fredrich Penzel in 1760 of earlier lost scores, rather than the original manuscript that Bach later presented to the Margrave of Brandenburg. There are slight and major differences between the two versions--such as the omission of the 3rd movement from the 1st Concerto in the earlier scores. Sir Neville Marriner likewise used these 1760 copies in an edition prepared for him by harpsichordist/scholar Thurston Dart, in the Academy of St. Martin's in the Fields' 1971 Philips recording (which I prefer to the ASMFs' later 'star studded' recording). Dart argued that Bach's 'presentation copy' of the Brandenburgs contained many errors, and suggested that Bach had written it down in haste.

Considering that Christopher Hogwood performed with the ASMFs in those days, and additionally served as a consultant musicologist to them, it's quite possible that he became convinced by Dart's ideas.

Those are the only two recordings that I know of that use this first version of the 6 Brandenburgs.


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## ramiot

I have a few versions of the Concerto Brandebourgeois (Jordi Savall et le Concert des Nations, Masaaki Suzuki & the Bach Collegium of Japan, Johannes Somary and the English Orchestra, Friburger BarockOrchestr, Academy of Ancient Music with Richard Egarr, SACD) and my most loved one has to be Jordi Savall (SACD) for the overall quality of sound, rythm, and the beautyful sound of the wind instruments.


----------



## Heck148

I just picked up the old Karl Richter/Munch BachOrch/Archive recordings of the B-burgs.
These are very excellent, in the predictable Richter style - big,solid, well-played, fine soloists, modern instruments.....definitely not HIP, which is fine by me....
Archiv did a good job with the recordings back in 1967 - the solo groups often providing a real challenge for balance and clarity...Concerti #2 and 4 feature recorders on the flute part - these instruments require close miking, since the dynamic range is limited....balance is excellent overall...the accompanying booklet says that the Horns [#1] are playing natural horns, but I don't think so, they sound like they're playing valve horns - the excellent players sound very even and solid, without the usual weak [wolf] notes and uneven scale associated with natural horns.

My other favorite set is Marriner/ASMF, again, modern instruments, and it is very good, hard to choose between them, tho I think Richter uses a bigger ensemble, produces an overall bigger sound...Marriner has the virtuoso trumpet part on #2 played by a Horn in F [Tuckwell] which is interesting, if not too authentic....for the best #2, and a great #5, I go to the CSO "Music at Ravinia" disc - featuring James Levine [I know, Eeeeeuuwww!!] and CSO members - a fantastic disc featuring stunning performances - Herseth, Still, Peck,Miller, Kathleen Battle, Levine....


----------



## ramiot

ramiot said:


> I have a few versions of the Concerto Brandebourgeois (Jordi Savall et le Concert des Nations, Masaaki Suzuki & the Bach Collegium of Japan, Johannes Somary and the English Orchestra, Friburger BarockOrchestr, Academy of Ancient Music with Richard Egarr, SACD) and my most loved one has to be Jordi Savall (SACD) for the overall quality of sound, rythm, and the beautyful sound of the wind instruments.


This post has got me thinking... so I listen to my diferent recordings of the 'Concerto Brandebourgeois' and ranked them according to my actual mood!!!

1) Les 6 concerto Brandebourgeois - Les Concerts des Nations - Jordi Savall (SACD)
2) Masaaki Suzuki - Bach Collegium Japan (Monkey's audio)
3) Academy of Ancient Music - Richard Egarr (SACD)
4) Freiburg Baroq orkestra 2014 Flac 24
5) Joannes Somary - English Chambver Orchestra (SACD)

Still think that the version of Jordi Savall is hard to beat...


----------



## Merl

The Freiberg set is tough to beat, for me.


----------



## JSBach85

Merl said:


> The Freiberg set is tough to beat, for me.


Out of the 8 recordings I own of Brandenburg Concertos, is among my favourites with Savall and Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin. There is nothing better than listening my favourite composer with one of my favourite period ensembles. The more I listen Freiburger Barockorchester the more I like their recordings of every baroque composer they have recorded.

I don't have enough room for more Brandenburg Concertos recordings but I would also consider along with the ones I own the following:

- Orchestra Of The Age Of Enlightenment.
- The Academy of Ancient Music. C. Hogwood.

Both are available on youtube, I am listening to them and despite I am happier with other recordings, both are good options as well.


----------



## Jan9Pot7ck1

The first recordings of these concertos I owned were Columbia/Odyssey cassettes of performances by the New York Sinfonietta and Max Goberman. I listened to these so much I wore them out. These recordings were briefly available on compact disc back in the 90s. Unfortunately, I failed to buy them. Does anyone know if there is a digital download of these recordings available anywhere?


----------



## joen_cph

Jan9Pot7ck1 said:


> The first recordings of these concertos I owned were Columbia/Odyssey cassettes of performances by the New York Sinfonietta and Max Goberman. I listened to these so much I wore them out. These recordings were briefly available on compact disc back in the 90s. Unfortunately, I failed to buy them. Does anyone know if there is a digital download of these recordings available anywhere?


-> https://www.amazon.com/Brandenburg-Concertos-Max-Goberman/dp/B007QWOVP0


----------



## Jan9Pot7ck1

Thank you for your help!


----------



## BlackAdderLXX

So a 2 year bump for this great thread. I'm glad for the contributions here. I've been listening to a lot of Bach lately and have been trying to narrow in on some Brandenburg and Orchestral Suites recordings to purchase. I've listened to most of the suggestions over the past few days and especially enjoyed the Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin, the Marriner/ASMF, the Pinnock and the Cafe Zimmerman. So many great recordings out there though!


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

I need to do some deep listening of the Brandies since my knowledge of recordings is not all that deep. Current favorites include the Britten - don’t see how anyone could dislike it despite the modern instruments. Perfectly moderate, middle-of-the-road tempi and just warm, judicious, ravishing music-making. Pinnock is an HIP benchmark that I return to often. The set I learned the music from was the rather obscure Huggett/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, which is another excellent HIP set with lots of pizzazz. A must-hear too is the integral Busch set - very different performance practice but I defy you to find more committed music-making. A couple ones that seem to receive major accolades that I’m not too keen on are Alessandrini (the one with the deer in the parking garage cover), which I thought was pretty bland, and Goebel, whose tempi are just nonsensical.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I need to do some deep listening of the Brandies since my knowledge of recordings is not all that deep. Current favorites include the Britten - don't see how anyone could dislike it despite the modern instruments. Perfectly moderate, middle-of-the-road tempi and just warm, judicious, ravishing music-making. Pinnock is an HIP benchmark that I return to often. The set I learned the music from was the rather obscure Huggett/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, which is another excellent HIP set with lots of pizzazz. A must-hear too is the integral Busch set - very different performance practice but I defy you to find more committed music-making. A couple ones that seem to receive major accolades that I'm not too keen on are Alessandrini (the one with the deer in the parking garage cover), which I thought was pretty bland, and Goebel, whose tempi are just nonsensical.


While I'm not an expert on any of this, I thought the Goebel was well executed, but it just didn't sit well with me. I liked the Alessandrini more, but there were several others I just liked better. That AKAMUS in particular really blows me away. I don't know the best descriptors to use, but the tone of the instruments and the acoustics of the room on the recording are just ideal for me. Then the tempo, tuning and energy just really fall in that sweet spot for me. Good thing there's so many to choose from. Something for every taste.


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## Simplicissimus

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I need to do some deep listening of the Brandies since my knowledge of recordings is not all that deep. Current favorites include the Britten - don't see how anyone could dislike it despite the modern instruments. Perfectly moderate, middle-of-the-road tempi and just warm, judicious, ravishing music-making. Pinnock is an HIP benchmark that I return to often. The set I learned the music from was the rather obscure Huggett/Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, which is another excellent HIP set with lots of pizzazz. A must-hear too is the integral Busch set - very different performance practice but I defy you to find more committed music-making. A couple ones that seem to receive major accolades that I'm not too keen on are Alessandrini (the one with the deer in the parking garage cover), which I thought was pretty bland, and Goebel, whose tempi are just nonsensical.


I have a definite but definitely minority opinion here: Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, 1985, Erato. These are very orthodox HIP readings to which Koopman, as is typical for him, adds a lot of ornament and flair on the harpsichord continuo. I'm a HIP guy so what I'm really saying is that these are my favorite HIP recordings of the Brandenburg Concerti based upon my experience with the recordings from Pinnock, Harnoncourt, Hogwood, Antonini, Savall, Freiburger Barockorchester, Brueggen/Leonhardt, and Goebel. If you try one movement on for size, have a listen to the allegro (first movement) of No. 5 and experience Koopman's concept of Bach's harpsichord roles in both continuo and solo passages. There's also some beautiful traverso playing by Wilbert Hazelzet.

Edit: Just listened to No. 5 and realized again that Koopman's harpsichord work in the affettuoso (2nd) movement literally makes me cry every time.


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## starthrower

Merl said:


> The Freiberg set is tough to beat, for me.


Cafe Zimmermann is pretty good too.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

I really like Pinnock's later recording with the European Brandenburg Ensemble to his earlier one on Arkiv. But I listen to all sorts, from Munch and Marriner to Savall to Pinnock to Richter to Suzuki.


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## NLAdriaan

seitzpf said:


> I have a definite but definitely minority opinion here: Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, 1985, Erato. These are very orthodox HIP readings to which Koopman, as is typical for him, adds a lot of ornament and flair on the harpsichord continuo. I'm a HIP guy so what I'm really saying is that these are my favorite HIP recordings of the Brandenburg Concerti based upon my experience with the recordings from Pinnock, Harnoncourt, Hogwood, Antonini, Savall, Freiburger Barockorchester, Brueggen/Leonhardt, and Goebel. If you try one movement on for size, have a listen to the allegro (first movement) of No. 5 and experience Koopman's concept of Bach's harpsichord roles in both continuo and solo passages. There's also some beautiful traverso playing by Wilbert Hazelzet.
> 
> Edit: Just listened to No. 5 and realized again that Koopman's harpsichord work in the affettuoso (2nd) movement literally makes me cry every time.


You are not alone in preferring Ton Koopman:tiphat:

To me, this preference extends to his entire view on Bach's music. Bach's complete organ works, the cantatas, the passions, the 'Hohe Messe', everywhere you hear Koopman's devotion to the nature of the piece. And where many others tend to play Bach dead serious, Koopman uses flair and ornamentation, as you said, wherever he can. And there are no other Bach interpreters that excell in Bach's on the organ, the harpsichord and in conducting his vocal works.

Bach can be happy with a prophet like Ton Koopman.:angel:


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## Nickmb

I have a few versions, including the Linde Consort which is very good, directed by the baroque flautist and recorder player Hans -Martin Linde. My favourite is the 1980s English Concert version directed by Trevor Pinnock from the harpsichord. The 5th is particularly brilliant with his superb playing of the extended cadenza at the end of the first movement. That, however, is even excelled by Muller’s playing of the piece in the Harnoncourt version for Das Alte Werk.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

Nickmb said:


> I have a few versions, including the Linde Consort which is very good, directed by the baroque flautist and recorder player Hans -Martin Linde. My favourite is the 1980s English Concert version directed by Trevor Pinnock from the harpsichord. The 5th is particularly brilliant with his superb playing of the extended cadenza at the end of the first movement. That, however, is even excelled by Muller's playing of the piece in the Harnoncourt version for Das Alte Werk.


The Harnoncourt was my introduction to HIP Bach, and it was at the top of my preferences for a long time. The Pinnock came next. Really, I shift around to various versions as my favorite - there really is an embarrassment of riches in terms of great recordings. If you really like the earlier Pinnock recording, I highly recommend you try out his newer recording with the European Brandenburg Ensemble.


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## Allegro Con Brio

I sampled the Freiburg Baroque recording a few days ago. Some of the most irresistably joyous, boisterous, snappy music-making in these works I’ve heard. Though I tend to prefer more moderate, expressive approaches I’d have no problem recommending it to anyone who wants to hear these works played on the brink of recklessness while still maintaining musicality (unlike Goebel IMO).


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## BlackAdderLXX

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I sampled the Freiburg Baroque recording a few days ago. Some of the most irresistably joyous, boisterous, snappy music-making in these works I've heard. Though I tend to prefer more moderate, expressive approaches I'd have no problem recommending it to anyone who wants to hear these works played on the brink of recklessness while still maintaining musicality (unlike Goebel IMO).


This was the recording I ended up purchasing. The enthusiasm was infectious. No pun intended.


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## The3Bs

I have been avoiding sampling the Freiburg as well as the Rinaldo Alessandrini, I have too many and enjoy for various situations:
- Cafe Zimmermann
- Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin
- Jordi Savall
- Sigiswald Kujiken 

Can I really add one or two more?


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## BlackAdderLXX

The3Bs said:


> I have been avoiding sampling the Freiburg as well as the Rinaldo Alessandrini, I have too many and enjoy for various situations:
> - Cafe Zimmermann
> - Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin
> - Jordi Savall
> - Sigiswald Kujiken
> 
> Can I really add one or two more?


I'm pretty sure this is the wrong crowd to ask unless the answer you want is YES


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## The3Bs

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the wrong crowd to ask unless the answer you want is YES


Oh dear!!! I am sure you are right, but logic dictated me to think/ask that question loudly....


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## Ekim the Insubordinate

The3Bs said:


> I have been avoiding sampling the Freiburg as well as the Rinaldo Alessandrini, I have too many and enjoy for various situations:
> - Cafe Zimmermann
> - Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin
> - Jordi Savall
> - Sigiswald Kujiken
> 
> Can I really add one or two more?


The Alessandrini is one of my favorites. Go for it!


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## The3Bs

Ekim the Insubordinate said:


> The Alessandrini is one of my favorites. Go for it!


Eh Eh! you :devil:

I did sampled it some time ago... and what I heard I liked... but will it really add a lot into what I already have (again fruitless question)? I might myself limit me to Spotify on this one .....


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## BlackAdderLXX

The3Bs said:


> Oh dear!!! I am sure you are right, but logic dictated me to think/ask that question loudly....


You have to do it so you can look at yourself in the mirror.


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## flamencosketches

I'm not too big on the Brandenburgs truth be told. I have Hogwood on L'Oiseaux Lyre and one half of the earlier Pinnock on Archiv (w/ the two F majors and the G major). Both are good but I think I prefer Hogwood. Anyway I wonder if the "English style" HIP guys might play it too safe with this music. I'm thinking about checking out the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (w/ no conductor?) or maybe the Savall. 

Anyone heard the old Karajan Brandenburgs? There are some folks who wear by them. :lol: Ditto for the Klemperer/Philharmonia.


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## The3Bs

flamencosketches said:


> I'm not too big on the Brandenburgs truth be told. I have Hogwood on L'Oiseaux Lyre and one half of the earlier Pinnock on Archiv (w/ the two F majors and the G major). Both are good but I think I prefer Hogwood. Anyway I wonder if the "English style" HIP guys might play it too safe with this music. I'm thinking about checking out the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (w/ no conductor?) or maybe the Savall.
> 
> Anyone heard the old Karajan Brandenburgs? There are some folks who wear by them. :lol: Ditto for the Klemperer/Philharmonia.


Hello flamencosketches you will be well served by any of the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (w/ no conductor?) or Savall. I like one better in places and vice versa...

I think I have the Karajan somewhere... not heard in ages... bit if I remember, it was nicely recorded but of course with a totally different approach to dynamics...

Another that I heard and was also nice was Claudio Abbado with Giuliano Carmignola...


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## Marc

Not easy to make a pick in these works… for something else than 'English style', I would still suggest the very vivid and dynamic Musica Antiqua Köln recordings with Goebel (DG/Archiv).

https://www.discogs.com/Musica-Anti...ch-Brandenburgische-Konzerte/release/12049773

Another suggestion might be: Siegbert Rampe with La Stravaganza Hamburg.

https://www.discogs.com/JS-Bach-La-...Rampe-Brandenburgische-Konzerte/master/818805

For 'old school': I admit that I have a weak spot for the bold performances of Karl Richter's Münchener Bach-Orchester (stereo recordings from the 1960s). Long time ago, they were issued on the DG sub-label Galleria.

https://www.discogs.com/Johann-Seba...g-Concertos-Concertos-BWV-105/release/4929046


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## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> I'm not too big on the Brandenburgs truth be told. I have Hogwood on L'Oiseaux Lyre and one half of the earlier Pinnock on Archiv (w/ the two F majors and the G major). Both are good but I think I prefer Hogwood. Anyway I wonder if the "English style" HIP guys might play it too safe with this music. I'm thinking about checking out the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (w/ no conductor?) or maybe the Savall.
> 
> Anyone heard the old Karajan Brandenburgs? There are some folks who wear by them. :lol: Ditto for the Klemperer/Philharmonia.


You'd probably like Freiburg then, and, if you want something unabashedly over-the-top then Goebel. Probably the fastest tempi I've ever heard in _any_ recordings of _anything_. For me it's almost comical but lots of people love it. Sample the first movement of the 6th concerto and you'll see what I mean


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## Kiki

flamencosketches said:


> Anyone heard the old Karajan Brandenburgs? There are some folks who wear by them. :lol: Ditto for the Klemperer/Philharmonia.


I have both Karajan sets as well as his live No. 1 BWV1046 from Moscow. The set from the 60s sounds to me smoother and grander in general. The set from the 70s tends to sound lighter and it has got a more focused sound. But these are only relative in terms of what I'd expect from Karajan.

Really like the Alessandrini set for its grit/passion. This is the set that really got me into Bach. Any recommendation for something similar? The grittier the better. Earthy would be good too. HIP-only please.

I've had Pinnock's first set since those LPs came out. Coming from I Musici, my first exposure to these concertos, the first Pinnock sounded a bit alien to my young adolescence self. Nowadays I appreciate it a lot more. This is the way it should sound. Pinnock's second is slightly meatier and maybe a tad less elegant, but I like it too.

Also have the Abbado/Carmignola set. Got it out of curiosity, as the combination of these two names sounded interesting. I like the fast tempi in general. It also has Abbado's effortless, easy-going sound. I can't fault it but it doesn't make me feel excited like the Alessandrini or the second Pinnock.


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## flamencosketches

Allegro Con Brio said:


> You'd probably like Freiburg then, and, if you want something unabashedly over-the-top then Goebel. Probably the fastest tempi I've ever heard in _any_ recordings of _anything_. For me it's almost comical but lots of people love it. Sample the first movement of the 6th concerto and you'll see what I mean


Interesting. I have Goebel's Art of Fugue and I find it quite dry and academic, not at all over the top. I'll have to check out that movement to see what you mean.


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## staxomega

flamencosketches said:


> I'm not too big on the Brandenburgs truth be told. I have Hogwood on L'Oiseaux Lyre and one half of the earlier Pinnock on Archiv (w/ the two F majors and the G major). Both are good but I think I prefer Hogwood. Anyway I wonder if the "English style" HIP guys might play it too safe with this music. I'm thinking about checking out the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (w/ no conductor?) or maybe the Savall.
> 
> Anyone heard the old Karajan Brandenburgs? There are some folks who wear by them. :lol: Ditto for the Klemperer/Philharmonia.


I agree with you on Pinnock, it's a perfectly fine, safe interpretation and I greatly enjoyed it when I first started moving on from larger orchestras to more period performances but these days I find it lacking the vitality of Hogwood and Alessandrini. Oh and you also get with Pinnock is supremely tight musicianship but I don't think Brandenburgs really needs that degree of perfection. AAM has all the virtuosity but sound more interesting. Edit: Ton Koopman's is another I enjoy.

BTW are you Mirror Image from GMG? I noticed he commented on liking that painting in your avatar just a few days ago in the Brahms composer thread. Didn't pin you for a baroque fan


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## premont

staxomega said:


> BTW are you Mirror Image from GMG? I noticed he commented on liking that painting in your avatar just a few days ago in the Brahms composer thread. Didn't pin you for a baroque fan


I may be wrong, but I think flamencosketches is _vers la flamme_ from GMG and not MI.


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## Marc

flamencosketches said:


> Interesting. I have Goebel's Art of Fugue and I find it quite dry and academic, not at all over the top. I'll have to check out that movement to see what you mean.


Somehow BWV 1080 is one of the least 'Goebel' of the 'Goebel catalogue'. 
It's mostly (almost too) relaxing, whilst his approach is generally best known for its very vivid quality.


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## flamencosketches

@Staxomega, no I am not Mirror Image, nor did I get my avatar painting from that exchange over on GMG (though I do remember it) but rather because Klemperer used it as the cover for his Mahler 4th; I was hooked right away. Anyway, MI is indeed not a baroque fan, though I am, and increasingly so lately.



premont said:


> I may be wrong, but I think flamencosketches is _vers la flamme_ from GMG and not MI.


Very perceptive, Premont  (Somehow I missed this exchange the last time the thread was around)-and thanks for all your help with harpsichord recommendations on the other boards 

--

OK, the reason I am bumping this thread is to talk about the Brandenburgs. I am getting to be quite hooked on these concerti. I have three full sets now: Pinnock, Hogwood, and most recently Richter/Munich on Archiv. The latter of these is fantastic! Not HIP like the others, but amazingly well played, quite fast, and with great clarity. That being said, despite having three great sets, I am still hungry for more. After having sampled a few (Akademie für Alte Music Berlin, Britten/ECO, and Goebel/Musica Antiqua Köln) I think I have eliminated the former two from consideration for the time being, while being really impressed with what I've heard of the Goebel. Very fast, very tight. But again, I already have three and I am not really itching to pull the trigger on yet another set, or at least not yet anyway.

Also curious about Alessandrini. Anyone listening to that one?

But seriously-any love for the Richter/Munich? I really love it!


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## Allegro Con Brio

^Those former two that you eliminated are quite possibly my two favorite sets, and I dislike the Goebel with quite a passion, so I'm afraid that any recommendation I make may not click with you! But I will float up Casals/Marlboro Festival Orchestra for "old school" (Rudolf Serkin plays the piano, no harpsichord to be found there) and a newer one from the Freiburg Baroque Orchestra (peppy and spicy but not IMO as daftly fast as Goebel) for your consideration. Alessandrini is a very good "middle ground" HIP approach and has one of the most amusing covers I know:


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## flamencosketches

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^Those former two that you eliminated are quite possibly my two favorite sets, and I dislike the Goebel with quite a passion, so I'm afraid that any recommendation I make may not click with you! But I will float up Casals/Marlboro Festival Orchestra for "old school" (Rudolf Serkin plays the piano, no harpsichord to be found there) and a newer one from the Freiburg Baroque Orchestra (peppy and spicy but not IMO as daftly fast as Goebel) for your consideration. Alessandrini is a very good "middle ground" HIP approach and has one of the most amusing covers I know:


Funny, here I was thinking it was you who recommended Goebel to me - I didn't realize your post about it upthread was a warning  I'll have to look into the Freiburg.


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## premont

flamencosketches said:


> Very perceptive, Premont  (Somehow I missed this exchange the last time the thread was around)-and thanks for all your help with harpsichord recommendations on the other boards


Are you sure, that I am Premont from GMG? 
Well, yes I am. I think it is preferable to have the same username in all similar forums, so posters don't need to guess whether they have met one before or not.



flamencosketches said:


> OK, the reason I am bumping this thread is to talk about the Brandenburgs. I am getting to be quite hooked on these concerti. I have three full sets now: Pinnock, Hogwood, and most recently Richter/Munich on Archiv. The latter of these is fantastic! Not HIP like the others, but amazingly well played, quite fast, and with great clarity. That being said, despite having three great sets, I am still hungry for more. After having sampled a few (Akademie für Alte Music Berlin, Britten/ECO, and Goebel/Musica Antiqua Köln) I think I have eliminated the former two from consideration for the time being, while being really impressed with what I've heard of the Goebel. Very fast, very tight. But again, I already have three and I am not really itching to pull the trigger on yet another set, or at least not yet anyway.


The Brandenburg concertos were the first music by J S Bach I got hooked on as a teenager. Quickly I collected four, five and even six different recordings, but still I felt the need for more - and this has continued until now. So from a statistical point of view you almost can't mention a recording of these works, which I don't know. With this plenitude of recordings the term "favorite" looses its meaning. Of the recordings I own, there is not a single one (not even Karajan's), I would like to be without. Having grown up with old-school recordings I still harbour a lot of veneration for these, even if I have to admit, that I much prefer HIP PI versions.

As to the Freiburger version I think their DVD version from 2000 is more elegantly played than the newer CD version.

https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Johann-S...s=dvd&sprefix=brandenburgische,aps,157&sr=1-3

and concerning Karl Richter I prefer this DVD

https://www.amazon.de/Bach-Johann-S...s=dvd&sprefix=brandenburgische,aps,157&sr=1-4

to the Archiv CD version. It was made around the same time and is rather similar but a tad more engaging.

Britten has got some interesting soloists, but in every other respect his recording is more old-style than most.

Goebel's Archive set is brilliant, but sometimes I find his choice of tempi absurd.



flamencosketches said:


> Also curious about Alessandrini. Anyone listening to that one?


Alessandrini's set is beautiful and cantabile. Listen e.g. to the interplay of the violin and flute in the first movement of concerto 5.


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## flamencosketches

^Maybe it is preferable, but I can never stick with any one handle before getting sick of it. I've even thought of changing my username both here and there. I promise, it's not because I want to confuse people... 

Thanks for your comments on Alessandrini. It sounds really good, I'll have to check out that movement you mentioned. I appreciate your perspective, especially with regard to HIPPI recordings vs "old school" being that you started in one camp and transitioned to the other. I think I generally prefer the HIPPI stuff too (hence my ruling out Britten for the time being) but modern instruments recordings from the older masters have their merits. I am getting curious about Klemperer/Philharmonia too. It's clear that Bach is a composer he held close to his heart.


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## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> But seriously-any love for the Richter/Munich? I really love it!
> View attachment 142663


Yes!! I like it very much...I also like Marriner/ASMF...I need modern instruments...Marriner has Tuckwell play #2 on horn instead of trumpet....interesting and enjoyable...for #2 my choice is Levine/Music from Ravinia with CSO Members. Herseth sounds phenomenal on trumpet...the Maurice Andre versions are excellent, too....Ravinia has great #5 as well....with "Wedding" Cantata, K. Battle, with some great oboe work by Ray Still....great disc throughout.


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## Geoff48

My first Brandenburg L.P. was Karl Munchinger on Ace of Clubs. It contained 1,3 and 6. Liked 1 and 3, found 6 a little stodgy. I ner got round to completing the set but when I went stereo bought the complete concertos with Faerber on Turnabout. Was livelier and 6 seemed far more enjoyable. Incidentally I recently found a second hand copy on Amazon and bought it for nostalgia sake. I was surprised How good it was. And still in vinyl days I eventually bought the Menuhin set and that was really good and is still in my collection albeit as part of his Bach set on cd. Menuhin was a great musician and seemed to inspire his colleagues. And with the great George Malcolm as harpsichord he had great support
And I would recommend Menuhin to anyone although the recording is now pretty elderly. If you must have HIP then Pinnock isn’t bad but preferring modern instruments I would probably go for the first Marriner originally on Philips.


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## Bulldog

The Goebel set is by far my favorite Brandenburgs. I'm surprised at the comments on Goebel being way too fast; there are other sets even quicker although I don't specifically remember which. Anyways, the Goebel brass are amazing.


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## Bulldog

Geoff48 said:


> If you must have HIP then Pinnock isn't bad but preferring modern instruments I would probably go for the first Marriner originally on Philips.


I find Marriner out of his element in Bach. What is his element? Mozart serenades and divertimenti. Hold on - he did record a nice set of the Schumann symphonies on Hanssler.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Bulldog said:


> The Goebel set is by far my favorite Brandenburgs. I'm surprised at the comments on Goebel being way too fast; there are other sets even quicker although I don't specifically remember which. Anyways, the Goebel brass are amazing.


Is it possible for anyone to take the first movement of the 6th any faster? If it is I'd be curious to hear it just out of perverse curiosity.


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## Bulldog

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Is it possible for anyone to take the first movement of the 6th any faster? If it is I'd be curious to hear it just out of perverse curiosity.


You can key on the speed, I'll key on the brass. As it happens I also like slower versions including Hogwood's and Pinnock's.


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## realdealblues

The Brandenburg Concertos were the first Bach I heard as a kid. I've collected about 30 different recordings of them since I started buying CD's close to 30 years ago and I'm still trying to pick a true favorite...

After all these years I do now hear them in a somewhat specific way in my head that none of them quite match, so I suppose I will continue buying new recordings for years to come searching for the one that most rings true to what I want to hear, or until someone lends me an orchestra and a recording studio for a while...


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## premont

realdealblues said:


> The Brandenburg Concertos were the first Bach I heard as a kid. I've collected about 30 different recordings of them since I started buying CD's close to 30 years ago and I'm still trying to pick a true favorite...
> 
> After all these years* I do now hear them in a somewhat specific way in my head that none of them quite match*, so I suppose I will continue buying new recordings for years to come searching for the one that most rings true to what I want to hear, or until someone lends me an orchestra and a recording studio for a while...


Rather similar to my story, but in contrast to you I do not search for something which matches my idea of the Brandenburgs. Instead I enjoy the many different approaches, many of them inspiring and doing things I hadn't imagined myself.


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## premont

Bulldog said:


> I find Marriner out of his element in Bach. What is his element? Mozart serenades and divertimenti. Hold on - he did record a nice set of the Schumann symphonies on Hanssler.


Marriner's first Brandenburg concerto recording (Philips 1970) was heavily influenced by Thurston Dart and reminds more or less of the Dart recording (L'Oiseau lyre 1958). Marriners second set (Philips 1980 with Rampal, Holliger, Szeryng and Petri) and third set (EMI 1985)
both have excellent soloists, but the approach is a German Kapellmeister approach, like Münchinger or Ristenpart. This approach was common through more than 50 years (1930 - 1980), and I am still able to enjoy it very much. I do not find Marriner out of his element here - he just played in the common style.


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## realdealblues

premont said:


> Rather similar to my story, but in contrast to you I do not search for something which matches my idea of the Brandenburgs. Instead I enjoy the many different approaches, many of them inspiring and doing things I hadn't imagined myself.


Perhaps I should have stated things slightly differently. I have no issue enjoying the many different approaches, but being a musician and having the scores after all these years I have an idea of how I would perform them and what my approach would be and I have yet to hear a cycle similar enough to the way I would leave my own account on disc if given the chance.


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## premont

What would the main characteristics of your approach be?


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## realdealblues

premont said:


> What would the main characteristics of your approach be?


They aren't all that much different that most peoples, mainly certain textures, balances, phrasings, etc. but I also specifically have in mind a pulse that I feel creates a natural flow between the tempos of the movements and unifies the work in a certain way, much the way Glenn Gould did. There are several recordings I think are in the ball park but there are usually small details that I would just change slightly, the brass may be too harsh on the ears or too muffled, a passage may sound rushed, etc. Minor stuff in the grand scheme of things but things that to my ear I would like to hear just slightly different.


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## premont

Yes, this is also most of the things I put stress on: Balance, the location of the different instrument in the sound picture, scoring, tempo, articulation and certain details e.g. execution of trills.

Given the hunting call themes of the corni, I think they ought to be a bit prominent, whereas the tromba should balance perfectly with the recorder, oboe and violin. Often it's too prominent. Usually in recordings I also find the harpsichord (particularly in no.5) and the viola da gambas in no.6 underbalanced. In concerto no.3 the violins should be to the left, the violas to the right and the celli midstage. This will clearly display the antiphony between violins and violas. And in concerto no. 1 the strings should be to the left, the reeds to the right and the corni midstage, displaying the antiphony between strings and reeds - to name a few examples.


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## deangelisj35

Josquin13 said:


> That's a difficult question. There are too many good Brandenburg Concerto recordings out there to confidently pick a first choice, but I would mention Pinnock 1 and 2, Leonhardt-Bruggen-Kuijken-Blysma & co.(who are favorites in the 5th Concerto)...


I'm a big fan of all of Bach's solo keyboard compositions. In the past, I've tried several times to listen to various versions of the Brandenburgs without much success. But someone gave CDs of the Leonhardt-Bruggen-Kuijken-Blysma & co. recordings the other day, and I am quite enjoying them!


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## JB Henson

My go to has always been Paillard's 70s recording with Rampal and Andre. Orchestra isn't too big for the piece but not as skeletal as most HIPs (although as far as HIP goes the Taffelmuisk recording is also great).


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