# Questions about Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Martin and/or schigolch may know the answers, but if anybody else knows them, please do contribute.

I know and love Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk District. I haven't seen Katerina Izmailova yet, which is the renamed second version of the former.

I want more details about the revision. I have several questions.

From Wikipedia I learn that the revision included two new entr'actes, what they call a major revision to Act 1 Scene 3, and some smaller changes elsewhere.

Question 1) Act 1 Scene 3 is when Katerina and Sergei make love for the first time. Is the "major revision" part of making the opera less objectionable to the censors, playing down the sex scene? Or is the scene the same, just with changed music?

Question 2) Would you consider Katerina Izmailova a different opera, or would you rather see it as the same one with just a few hard-to-notice changes?

Question 3) Which version do you prefer? I know that Shostakovich preferred Katerina.

Question 4) If the composer preferred the revised/renamed Katerina Izmailova version, why do most opera houses keep giving Lady Macbeth instead? Under what justification? I mean, what do they see in the first version that they consider to be more worthy of being staged than its revision?

Question 5) Is the running time significantly different (meaning, is there more music in the second version, thanks to the new entr'actes?) If so, then the existing DVDs of Katerina are severely cut. They have running times of about 110 to 120 minutes while the DVDs of Lady Macbeth have running times between 170, 180, and even 236 minutes (although maybe the latter has included bonus features in this total). But in any case, it seems like Lady Macbeth has one hour more than Katerina, how come??? It is true that one of the available Lady Macbeth DVDs has 100 minutes, but it is advertised as an abridged version. Is it possible that the two Katerina DVDs are also abridged versions?

Thanks in advance.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Well, partially, never mind, since I found the answer to most of these questions on my own. Here is what I got from music scholar Andrew Hunt:

1) Act 1 Scene 3 is indeed watered down sexually, both in music and words, because Shostakovich wanted to give the impression that he had learned from Stalin's criticism, since he even feared for his life after Stalin disliked the first version so much. So the suggestive music and some words get toned down and the sex is more implied than shown.

2) According to Mr. Huth, academic considerations and long discussions apart, it *is* the same opera, with minor changes. Shostakovich wanted to give the *impression* that he listened to Stalin but didn't want to change it *that* much. The changed title had to do with removing from the title a reference to Western culture.

3) Well this one is subjective, I'd still like to hear people's impressions on the two versions. Apparently Shostakovich liked better the second version due to some tightening up of some less theatrical loose ends (and also, I believe, he had a vested interest in *saying* that he liked better the revision). I'm watching the revised filmed version as I type this, and while this is fine filmed opera, so far I prefer the spectacular staging of the first version with Eva Maria Westbroek.

4) I guess the answer to this one is a question of taking a stance against censorship; people may want to restore the composer's original intention and the raw sexuality of Act 1 scene 3.

5) The revision does have a shorter running time than the original - 170-180 minutes for the latter depending on tempi and theatrical pace, 150 for the former (that's the tightening up Shostakovich was talking about, and the shorter scene 3 of act 1). The filmed version got further cuts (e.g., the scene in which the policemen talk about their own corrupt practices) to fit a more cinematic format, and got down to 112 minutes). Versions of the original version with less than 170 minutes are indeed abridged.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

It is worth noting that Shostakovich said MANY things that were designed merely to keep the peace (and keep him out of a gulag). What he said and what he really MEANT could be very different things (and have caused a great of debate since the composer's death). It could be, of course, that Shostakovich preferred _Katerina Izmailova_ because the memories of the success and then denunciation of _Lady Macbeth_ remained raw and terrifying. The attack by Stalin in _Pravda_ in 1936 was possibly the closest Shostakovich ever came to real arrest and imprisonment (and possible 'disappearance'), hence the subtitle of his Fifth Symphony the following year (_A Soviet Artist's Response to Justified Criticism_). I doubt he meant THAT either!


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Well, the opera was first staged in Moscow under the title of _Katerina Ismailova_ already in the 1930s.

In the western operatic world, the 1934 Leningrad version is the one with most performances, by far. I think in Russia is just the opposite.

Personally, my preferred recorded version is the 1960s film, with Galina Vishnevskaya. The Westbroek version I've watched live, and will do it again in a couple of months.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

No, the opera staged in 1934 (until its withdrawal in 1936) was under the original title of _The Lady of Macbeth from Mtsensk_. Katerina Izmailova is the name of the main female role. The opera entitled _Katerina Izmailova_ didn't appear until December 1962.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

"Question 4) If the composer preferred the revised/renamed Katerina Izmailova version, why do most opera houses keep giving Lady Macbeth instead? Under what justification? I mean, what do they see in the first version that they consider to be more worthy of being staged than its revision?

The answer would be more than simple....and pravda (true)...FASHION. Fashion actually is to return to the primitive versions...The "original" Mussorgsky's Boris and Kovanshina...when is not JUST returning to the former title.

Glinka's Life for the tsar was named Ivan Susanin duringthe sovietic era, called again Life for the tsar since 1991 again...
Good or not good are not important any more...The GENUIN concept replaced the pure beauty. I love Rimsky's Boris orchestration...Now is almost banned! The purists condemn R-K version...as a sacrilege. I don't. Anyhow, to be honest, Mussorgsky's orchestration is almost inexistent... Some people said that his orchestration was valid and very modern...

"Several composers, chief among them Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov and Dmitri Shostakovich, have created new editions of the opera to "correct" perceived technical weaknesses in the composer's original scores. Although these versions held the stage for decades, Mussorgsky's individual harmonic style and orchestration are now valued for their originality, and revisions by other hands have fallen out of fashion"

Shostakovich had the knowledge to correct his own opera (he was very young when he composed it...Other operas as the gamblers is a real chaos...like the almost homonymous opera by Prokofiev... (the Gambler) a real mess! The second version, Katerina Izmailova, wasn't better accepted...but better structured and more musical (IMHO). You have the DVD for this...










I have it, it's not great...I prefer my Lady Macbeth...










The actress is hot...As usual in Russian operas, the singers do not play, they sing....An example is also the wonderful Prince Igor...All handsome and beautiful people...about the singers, great ones...but hansome???? I don't know. The best prince Igor ever...










A real movie from the 70's I believe. I saw this movie when I was young (100 years ago).

Martin

Martin


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I do agree with the name-change - the 'Lady Macbeth' bit seemed insufficiently germane to me. If choosing a historical femme-fatale to name the work after then maybe Lucrezia Borgia or Belle Starr would have been more apt. It's only a small point and somewhat off-topic but it is the one thing about this great work that has bugged me over the years!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> I do agree with the name-change - the 'Lady Macbeth' bit seemed insufficiently germane to me. If choosing a historical femme-fatale to name the work after then maybe Lucrezia Borgia or Belle Starr would have been more apt. It's only a small point and somewhat off-topic but it is the one thing about this great work that has bugged me over the years!


 Well, it was the title of the novel, it wasn't exactly Sostakovich's choice.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> "Question 4) If the composer preferred the revised/renamed Katerina Izmailova version, why do most opera houses keep giving Lady Macbeth instead? Under what justification? I mean, what do they see in the first version that they consider to be more worthy of being staged than its revision?
> 
> The answer would be more than simple....and pravda (true)...FASHION. Fashion actually is to return to the primitive versions...The "original" Mussorgsky's Boris and Kovanshina...when is not JUST returning to the former title.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Martin, but the version you prefer is severely abridged, with a running time of only 100 minutes. Are you sure it is OK?
Have you seen the more recent productions, which apparently contain the full thing with no cuts?
I quite liked the filmed version, and finished reviewing it today - see the Russian Opera thread.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Well, it was the title of the novel, it wasn't exactly Sostakovich's choice.


Ha ha! Yes, it looks like I've scored an own-goal there. Quite remiss of me for singling out the opera instead of its source.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

elgars ghost said:


> Ha ha! Yes, it looks like I've scored an own-goal there. Quite remiss of me for singling out the opera instead of its source.


 That's OK, mate, I don't think it's an own-goal, just a minor oversight.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Thanks, Martin, but the version you prefer is severely abridged, with a running time of only 100 minutes. Are you sure it is OK?
> Have you seen the more recent productions, which apparently contain the full thing with no cuts?
> I quite liked the filmed version, and finished reviewing it today - see the Russian Opera thread.


Please be kind to give me the picture of the non abridge one. Thak you

Martin


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Please be kind to give me the picture of the non abridge one. Thak you
> 
> Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


>


indeed, I have none of this versions...Which one do you think is better...I don't want sung in English...About the singers I have no idea...Your pictures are too small to see this...Usually I bought Russian versions...I have the idea (prejudice) Russian singers and orchestra for Russian stuff...My CD version (coming from a LP I have converted) is the very best to my ears. It is Provatorov. I love this version even better than Galina Vizhnestkaya. Seing the pictures you sent...it seems as there is a lot of sex. I'm not a sexy guy when it comes to opera. I'm happily married and not used to...porno any more...LOL. I'll gladly take your advice. I know my versions are abridge....But unabridge and bad...I'm not interested in it. Anyways I have my CD/LP and I know it is not abridge. Bolshoia spaciba.

Best regards

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Looking again at your pictures...they don't seem to be Russian...Maybe they sing with an accent...I am sensitive to that. I speak Russian, more than a little bit. Again...Quality versus completenes, I'm not sure...and spending money for it...Well...

Martin again


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

Here is some informatiom about the name of the opera and its first perfomances. There were TWO premieres in January 1934 - in Leningrad and in Moscow. In Moscow (I mean during the premiere) in the Small opera theater (not at the Bolshoi) under the stage directior Nemirovich-Danchenko - *it was entitled "Katerina Izmaylova".* In Leningrad in 1934 - "Lady Macbeth Mtzenskogo Uezdsa".

*In Bolshoi theater in 1936* it was entitled "Lady Macbeth Mtzenskogo Uezdsa". It was the event, which was visited by Stalin and Molotov.
"There was a straw mattress on the stage, on which Katerina and Sergey made love. The scene was very naruralisrtic", - noted a Polish-American singer S. Radamsky.

So, the sexual scene was very naturalistic, not only for 1930s USSR, but for 1930s America.

I found this information in a book by a Polish composer and a friend of Shostakovich - Krzystof Meyer.

*Schostakowitsch: Sein Leben, sein Werk, seine Zeit (Serie Musik) 
Krzysztof Meyer 608 pages*


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Moscow-Mahler said:


> Here is some informatiom about the name of the opera and its first perfomances. There were TWO premieres in January 1934 - in Leningrad and in Moscow. In Moscow (I mean during the premiere) in the Small opera theater (not at the Bolshoi) under the stage directior Nemirovich-Danchenko - *it was entitled "Katerina Izmaylova".* In Leningrad in 1934 - "Lady Macbeth Mtzenskogo Uezdsa".
> 
> *In Bolshoi theater in 1936* it was entitled "Lady Macbeth Mtzenskogo Uezdsa". It was the event, which was visited by Stalin and Molotov.
> "There was a straw mattress on the stage, on which Katerina and Sergey made love. The scene was very naruralisrtic", - noted a Polish-American singer S. Radamsky.
> ...


Very interesting, thanks for the clarification.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Looking again at your pictures...they don't seem to be Russian...Maybe they sing with an accent...I am sensitive to that. I speak Russian, more than a little bit. Again...Quality versus completenes, I'm not sure...and spending money for it...Well...
> 
> Martin again


I actually only know one of these three new versions, the first one that I posted. It is sung by Eva-Maria Westbroek in the title role, and Christopher Ventris as her lover - the same Ventris does the second version that I posted as well, but I don't know that one (mamascarlatti likes it a lot). About the third one I noticed that it was released but I know nothing about it.

I think that the first one is truly excellent. It is sung in Russian and I can't gauge the accents since I don't speak any Russian, and I understand that for a Russian speaker, wrong accents can be upsetting, so I can't help you there.

But regarding the sexuality, it can't really be avoided. This opera *is* about sexuality. How do you do Lady Macbeth without sexuality?

Yes, this version is nitty and gritty, there is some nudity, it is shocking, and it is an avant-gard staging so if you don't like these things you may want to pass, but I found it to be truly excellent and one of the best opera DVDs I've ever watched.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

I think the accent depends on a singer. Once, I switch on TV and found the broadcast of some fragments of Eugene Onegin with Hvorostovski as Onegin, Rene Fleming as Tatiana and don't remember the name of Lenski. It was Lenski aria: "Chto den' gryaduchiy nam gotovit?" ("What the forthcoming day will bring?") and then the last scene (Onegin and Tatiana). Unfortunately, Lensky has very thick accent, but Fleming's pronounciation was quite good for an American singer.

***

I slightly prefer the name "Lady Macbeth", not "Katherina Izmailova", because there was another Katerina - in the drama by Ostrovski "Groza" (The Thunderstorm). That Katerina is much more famous, because we learn this drama in school (by Leskov we learn only "Levsha" - about a master from Tula city, who had shoed the mechanic flea invented by English masters). But the character of Ostrovski' Katerina is totally different: she did not killed her husband, but killed herself. So the name Katerina as a name of a literature heroine is mostly associated with that Katerina by Ostrovsky. We all learned that "she was a ray of the light in the dark kingdom of merchant class".


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I actually only know one of these three new versions, the first one that I posted. It is sung by Eva-Maria Westbroek in the title role, and Christopher Ventris as her lover - the same Ventris does the second version that I posted as well, but I don't know that one (mamascarlatti likes it a lot). About the third one I noticed that it was released but I know nothing about it.
> 
> I think that the first one is truly excellent. It is sung in Russian and I can't gauge the accents since I don't speak any Russian, and I understand that for a Russian speaker, wrong accents can be upsetting, so I can't help you there.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information....Judging by the so "Russian" names...I think their Russian will sound weird to me.

Martin


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Moscow-Mahler said:


> I think the accent depends on a singer. Once, I switch on TV and found the broadcast of some fragments of Eugene Onegin with Hvorostovski as Onegin, Rene Fleming as Tatiana and don't remember the name of Lenski. It was Lenski aria: "Chto den' gryaduchiy nam gotovit?" ("What the forthcoming day will bring?") and then the last scene (Onegin and Tatiana). Unfortunately, Lensky has very thick accent, but Fleming's pronounciation was quite good for an American singer.
> 
> ***
> 
> I slightly prefer the name "Lady Macbeth", not "Katherina Izmailova", because there was another Katerina - in the drama by Ostrovski "Groza" (The Thunderstorm). That Katerina is much more famous, because we learn this drama in school (by Leskov we learn only "Levsha" - about a master from Tula city, who had shoed the mechanic flea invented by English masters). But the character of Ostrovski' Katerina is totally different: she did not killed her husband, but killed herself. So the name Katerina as a name of a literature heroine is mostly associated with that Katerina by Ostrovsky. We all learned that "she was a ray of the light in the dark kingdom of merchant class".


That Lenski was Ramón Vargas, and yes, I watched that version with a Russian friend and she wasn't happy with his accent.

Thanks for the interesting info on the associations with the name Katerina.


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