# Conspiracy Theories



## Guest (Aug 28, 2018)

Are there any you actually believe in? I have a friend who is really fascinated by the Flat Earth theory, but actually does not subscribe to it. Another friend I have is probably a little bit more into this other theory.......I can't remember what it's called but it has something to do with the Frankfurt School of philosophy and elite powers that are trying to use ideas from those philosophers to destroy the world (or something like that) through the media and entertainment. It's really weird looking into the conspiracy theories that are out there...... :lol:

I don't subscribe to any of the conspiracy theories I have come across, personally.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The only event I can think of in the last twenty-five years or so which made me curious was the car crash which killed Princess Diana. As a rule I don't buy into CTs but in this case I wouldn't be surprised if her accident had been somehow...uhm...'arranged'...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

JFK assassination. I believe the Mafia was directly involved....thanks to Bobby Kennedy's Mafia hearings and direct provocations. They got him too in 1968.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Conspiracy theories without proof can be harmful. Just ask the parents of the Sandy Hook shootings. (We are awaiting a decision in a trial about that one.)

Sometimes those who perpetuate false rumors should suffer the consequences of their lies. Watch til the end, priceless:


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Most conspiracy theories are steaming piles of horse poo. They DID land on the Moon, Oswald killed Kennedy, the Earth is an oblate spheroid, and Diana got into a car driven by a pi$$ed Frenchman, never a sensible idea.

My most hopeful conspiracy involves the pig's ear Mrs May is making of the Brexit strategy. It's so appallingly bad, it makes me cling to a tiny slither of hope that it's deliberately so awful, so bad it never happens. Clever Theresa!

Btw, it IS true that the Knights Templar control everything. A bloke down the pub told me, so it must be true.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Then earth is flat as a pancake. It is a giant frisbee flying through the universe.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

DaveM said:


> Then earth is flat as a pancake. It is a giant frisbee flying through the universe.


But who (or what) threw the frisbee? Answer me that!


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Strange Magic said:


> But who (or what) threw the frisbee? Answer me that!


Ed Headrick?

.
.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

There aren't any conspiracy theories that I definitely believe in. But there are a number of mysteries where I feel that there's more behind it than meets the eye. I was at one time a great reader of true crime stories, and often found murders where I doubted the 'official' verdict or culprit. 

The case that most piques my curiosity is the Gunpowder Plot in England, 1605. I think it was a genuine conspiracy / plot by dissident Catholics, but also that Robert Cecil and his agents were implicated in various aspects of it. Hope to discover the truth one day, in this world or the next.


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## Thomyum2 (Apr 18, 2018)

DaveM said:


> Then earth is flat as a pancake. It is a giant frisbee flying through the universe.


On the back of four elephants, standing on a turtle?


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> But who (or what) threw the frisbee? Answer me that!


There are actually two Gods, a male and female. They are playing 'frisbee' with the earth. I know this to be true. It's on the internet.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The mentioned conspiracy theories are quite ridiculous, and as such they are harmless. If that´s the definition of conspiracy theories, then fine. 

But in the field of politics and political understanding, there´s a much more muddy picture - what can be considered conspiracy theories, and what can be easily rejected by the general public? Most people don´t have the energy or means to really identify the factual picture, and if a sufficient number of sources claim a new theory strongly enough, they can distort the picture fundamentally. 

With the advance of the digital media, and a lot of sophisticated, invented yet professional-looking material, and an increasing amount of "Deepfake" material, we´re actually facing some big problems in the future related to "conspiracy theories".


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## laurie (Jan 12, 2017)

DaveM said:


> There are actually two Gods, a male and female. They are playing 'frisbee' with the earth.* I know this to be true. It's on the internet*.











...... :lol:


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

What is this "internet" thing? 

Surely it cannot replace my bloke down the pub as the fount of all knowledge????

"It's the feckin' Jesuits, they have it all tied up! " * Father Ted quote, if you're worried/offended.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Here in the US we have this "Russia collusion" conspiracy theory spread throughout the media that yet has found no proof, but has dug up numerous FBI agents, con men, lawyers, porn stars, classified leakers, media clowns, and countless blackmailers claiming to care about nothing more than their beloved democracy. Plus all the fraud independent investigators who tease their readers into endless Go Fund Me schemes.

After almost 3 years of this the American public is getting suspicious, reacting with its own set of counter-conspiracy theories, from pizzagate to Q Anon. 9/11, like JFK and Diana, are also entwined in these theories. They are all quite fascinating and worth following to some degree, unless you think you know all the answers or don't care. If nothing else we learn that some of our leaders aren't quite what we might assume.

One thing is for sure, Go Fund Me is doing a heckuva business right now with the DC crowd, thanks to all these "conspiracy theories" creating a new sub-economy... and Snopes the so-called "debunker" is no longer a neutral source of info. Didja know Snopes was founded by a guy who was once a radio talk show conspiracy theorist before he sold it off? If ya know the name Snopes from Faulkner, you know what to expect...


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Ingélou said:


> .
> 
> The case that most piques my curiosity is the Gunpowder Plot in England, 1605. I think it was a genuine conspiracy / plot by dissident Catholics, but also that Robert Cecil and his agents were implicated in various aspects of it. Hope to discover the truth one day, in this world or the next.


If God's a Catholic, you'll find out the truth - but if He's a Protestant, He'll cover it up! :lol:


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Another truth:

Global warming and the melting of polar ice will cause a second great flood and there will be a second Noah’s Ark. As before, two of each species will enter the ark. Donald and Melania Trump will represent humans. Because of what’s necessary to make propogation successful, the human race will come to an end.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The current plethora of conspiracy theories is itself a single giant conspiracy, to train us to easily dismiss all conspiracy theories. Then, the greatest conspiracy of all will easily succeed: the conspiracy to do dups on TC!

Yes, it's all on *that* thread. And even the mods are taken in...


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I know a bloke, who knows a bloke, who got told by another bloke down the pub (who got told by a bloke he works with) that Stonehenge was an intergalactic petrol station, where aliens could buy (apart from fuel) momentos of their trip to earth, very strong coffee, Werther's Originals, dying flowers and human beings. Oh and those little smelly trees that hang from your rear-view mirror. Apparently Tony Robinson dug all that stuff on Time Team but it got covered up by the BBC and that oily turd, Cameron.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The biggest conspiracy? That no conspiracies have ever existed or been true, especially the ones perpetuated by those with political power, the so-called honorable men that if you knew what they had done, you’d be horrified. It’s usually a single “nut” who’s been set-up and blamed for doing their dirty work, set-up by the manipulators and string-pullers from behind the scenes who are able to control and manipulate the evidence after the fact.  I can think of two in America right off the top of my head and the public still wonders how our political scene became such a dishonorable mess.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

The world is a Spherical shape slightly flattened at the poles


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The world is a Spherical shape slightly flattened at the poles


Ah, the old Oblate Spheroid conspiracy rears its ugly head!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The world is a Spherical shape slightly flattened at the poles


I KNEW it!!! I just KNEW it!!!


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

What poles? You assume there are poles, and that's how they get you...


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

philoctetes said:


> What poles? You assume there are poles, and that's how they get you...


And they say that there are magnetic ones too!


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Just to stay on topic, when are those poles supposed to flip? 

Back in 2012 when the shaman wannabes were predicting a galactic flip that would destroy us all, none of them would bet me a dime that it would actually happen...


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2018)

I just remembered that term for the conspiracy theory my friend believes in: Cultural Marxism, borrowing the name from a similar conspiracy theory from Nazi Germany called Cultural Bolshevism, but this time the conspirators are more in the entertainment industry rather than the fine arts and music. I've heard this term flung around a bit before, but I am less familiar with the theory than I am with the Flat Earth Theory.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

shirime said:


> ...but this time the conspirators are more in the entertainment industry rather than the fine arts and music.


There's a difference?


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2018)

KenOC said:


> There's a difference?


Well, maybe not even so much. Back then, Cultural Bolshevism was what the Nazis called the stuff in that (hugely popular) 'degenerate art' exhibition, and neo-Nazis today use 'Cultural Marxism' to cry about how the Frankfurt School has infiltrated films and TV to destroy 'western culture' in the same way that degenerate art apparently did. 

It's like the flat earth theory for Nazis I reckon :lol:


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

No 9/11 video of plane hitting Pentagon. That gives rise to conspiracy wonderments. 'They' also talk of the 9/11 plane crashing in PA...or did it? When I was younger, folks frequently talked about the Kennedy assassinations and Jimmy Hoffa.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

The existing videos of 911 were enough to give rise to CTs. Buildings collapsed from below. Michael Moore supported the not-uncommon impression that W had foreknowledge of the attack from his reaction which was on video and taken out of circulation. Other events at the time indicated some kind of cooperation with the bin Laden family, which has historically been a proxy for the US in the Middle East. O and what about Pakistan?

Gore Vidal, kin to many people in high places,may have been one of the most respected, qualified men in the CT business. If you're unfamiliar with his warnings about false flag attacks, you might want to check out his essays from the 90s. Noam Chiomsky is another to read for insight, I find his ramblings on world events much more compelling than his work in cognition.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

philoctetes said:


> The existing videos of 911 were enough to give rise to CTs. Buildings collapsed from below.


AAhhhh, yes, the old buildings collapsing from below routine.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't think so many of these 'conspiracies' should be so easily dismissed. Some of them I think are bogus and put out just to mess with people for example - the flat earth theory. 

But look into Operation Northwoods and Operation Paperclip. These things are documented. Listen to Kennedy's last speeches before his assassination. Its disappointing so many people reject these things without doing any research on their own. Anyone that still has the capacity for independent thought and two brain cells they can rub together should realize the official story for 9/11 is fishy. 

I think the fact so many are still so skeptical about these 'conspiracies' has a lot to do with cognitive dissonance and Stockholm Syndrome.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

9/11 was mentioned (not by me)... Here's how some feel about the investigation in 5 minutes... no, nothing vaguely suspicious here.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Room2201974 said:


> AAhhhh, yes, the old buildings collapsing from below routine.


Well, ok I said that wrong... it pancaked vertically in a way that aroused theories... that's all... the energy transfer of a top section dropping on the lower is typically ignored by those theories.

Lark's video sums up the typical questions better than I, and without me having to own them.


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## Thomyum2 (Apr 18, 2018)

joen_cph said:


> The mentioned conspiracy theories are quite ridiculous, and as such they are harmless. If that´s the definition of conspiracy theories, then fine.
> 
> But in the field of politics and political understanding, there´s a much more muddy picture - what can be considered conspiracy theories, and what can be easily rejected by the general public? Most people don´t have the energy or means to really identify the factual picture, and if a sufficient number of sources claim a new theory strongly enough, they can distort the picture fundamentally.
> 
> With the advance of the digital media, and a lot of sophisticated, invented yet professional-looking material, and an increasing amount of "Deepfake" material, we´re actually facing some big problems in the future related to "conspiracy theories".


Since we are in a music forum here, I thought it could be an interesting exercise to try to tie some of the ideas here in this thread to the topics of classical music, as much of a stretch as that might seem. But in fact, this particular post by joen_cph did actually strike me as resonating a bit with some of the discussions and controversies I've been following in other recent threads.

Certainly the field of politics is very different in its scope and reach into the daily lives of many people than that of the aesthetics of classical music, but there is a commonality. I think that what the emergence of conspiracy theories illustrates, as is alluded to above, is an underlying breakdown of consensus about particular questions or issues, or moreover, of consensus about the accepted mechanisms for arriving at answers to questions, e.g. how to evaluate what sources or investigational methods are reliable ways to arrive at understanding. As a result we seem to get into a lot of confrontation over certain issues where consensus diverges, with offense often given or taken, whether intentional or not, and we seem to have difficulty finding our ways out of it. So I see a pattern of discourse, whether it be in issues of politics or of tastes in music, and I think many here might agree with me that it is interesting but also sometimes perplexing to see how some of these discussions, such as the controversies over some forms of modern music, often blow up or devolve into repetitive contention that mirrors what we see in political debate.

The rise of the internet and other advanced communication technologies has certainly made the world smaller and in a way, has brought us all face-to-face with each other where we are quickly confronted with those whose tastes, opinions and truths differ from our own. I often see our current era as one where we are wrestling with this and trying to find our path forward, whether it be in politics or the arts. Any thoughts?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Conspiracy Theories, if they're really effective, are untestable. The claim can be made, always, that the record/evidence/testimony has been doctored. Also, conspiracy theories are a secular form of religion(!), in that they provide satisfying answers to complex questions or to murky and difficult-to-tease-out chains of cause-and-effect. Bad Air ("malaria") works well as an explanation for malaria, rather than nonsense about mosquitoes, bacteria, etc. Global warming as a vast hoax and conspiracy cooked up by mad scientists and the Chinese works better than contemplating exhuming the carbon from hundreds of millions of years of accumulation and deep burial, and then putting it into earth's atmosphere and oceans in a few centuries


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Investigators don't need their clues to pass the Popper test if the clues lead to actual evidence. CTs are about studying the clues.

To test the untestable concept, just look at today's news and tell me nothing looks fishy here

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ter-prosecutors-lapse/?utm_term=.ab5211c5b374


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Thomyum2 said:


> Since we are in a music forum here, I thought it could be an interesting exercise to try to tie some of the ideas here in this thread to the topics of classical music, as much of a stretch as that might seem. But in fact, this particular post by joen_cph did actually strike me as resonating a bit with some of the discussions and controversies I've been following in other recent threads.
> 
> Certainly the field of politics is very different in its scope and reach into the daily lives of many people than that of the aesthetics of classical music, but there is a commonality. I think that what the emergence of conspiracy theories illustrates, as is alluded to above, is an underlying breakdown of consensus about particular questions or issues, or moreover, of consensus about the accepted mechanisms for arriving at answers to questions, e.g. how to evaluate what sources or investigational methods are reliable ways to arrive at understanding. As a result we seem to get into a lot of confrontation over certain issues where consensus diverges, with offense often given or taken, whether intentional or not, and we seem to have difficulty finding our ways out of it. So I see a pattern of discourse, whether it be in issues of politics or of tastes in music, and I think many here might agree with me that it is interesting but also sometimes perplexing to see how some of these discussions, such as the controversies over some forms of modern music, often blow up or devolve into repetitive contention that mirrors what we see in political debate.
> 
> The rise of the internet and other advanced communication technologies has certainly made the world smaller and in a way, has brought us all face-to-face with each other where we are quickly confronted with those whose tastes, opinions and truths differ from our own. I often see our current era as one where we are wrestling with this and trying to find our path forward, whether it be in politics or the arts. Any thoughts?


After a little spat in Area51 yesterday I considered the idea that politics, religion, and aesthetics are bound together in a common landscape of intellectual subjectivity. Classical music seems to be one of the major icons of this trinity, a fencepost around which to gather. Science and law attempt to cover the objective, and few people care to be versed in those areas.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

The public should not always be blamed if they speculate on conspiracy theories when they sense that they are being consistently lied to. This was true during the Watergate affair and before that, the Kennedy assassination and likely FBI and CIA involvement. The nature of any official investigation into something like a political assassination is that it's always designed to point away from those individuals who may have been behind it. This is why it's essential that those involved are in the position to destroy, manipulate, or control the evidence from some position of established authority, such as a govt official or other position as a respected public servant... It also important for the public to understand and closely examine those individuals who were in a position to gain the most from something like an assassination, or a 9/11-type event, who were already in positions of power and may have wanted more of it, or a Middle-East war, and the financial or political gains that come from such a well-orchestrated event that was made to look random or coincidental when nothing may have been further from the truth if one follows the trail of war, power, and money.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't get much excited about conspiracy theories, remembering this quote: "Three may keep a Secret, if two of them are dead." --Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack (1735)


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm not into CT's but when I watched the reruns of 9/11, a question did occur to me. (More of a physics question).

How could two planes flying at different speeds, hitting the buildings on different floors, and at different angles produce the exact same result. 

I vaguely remember watching the coverage of it and they interviewed two "building engineers". They said that although they looked like they came down exactly alike, the WAY they fell was different. In the case of one of the buildings the inner most part of the building started down first and the outer parts fell in over that. In the second case, it was just the opposite. The outer parts started down first and the inner parts followed the outer parts down.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Folks, far be it from me to pass on a CT, but I have inside info: An old Mass Comm major friend from my college days works now for the Enquirer. That 40,000th post? It's in Pecker's safe!


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Room2201974 said:


> Folks, far be it from me to pass on a CT, but I have inside info: An old Mass Comm major friend from my college days works now for the Enquirer. That 40,000th post? It's in Pecker's safe!


Don't hold back. I've yet to see anybody following or acting suspicious around me.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

philoctetes said:


> Investigators don't need their clues to pass the Popper test if the clues lead to actual evidence. CTs are about studying the clues.
> 
> To test the untestable concept, just look at today's news and tell me nothing looks fishy here
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ter-prosecutors-lapse/?utm_term=.ab5211c5b374


The amount of simple human bungling/error/incompetence, when mixed with random or unforeseen effects or consequences, can often lead to accusations of conspiracy when only gross negligence or stupidity (the normal default state of much human activity) is behind it all.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

DaveM said:


> Then earth is flat as a pancake. It is a giant frisbee flying through the universe.


well if the was flat all the cats would have knocked thing off...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

ldiat said:


> well if the was flat all the cats would have knocked thing off...


I'm not sure I understand this.......


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> And they say that there are magnetic ones too!


Which is better? A tour going to the North or South Pole? I'm from New York, so I feel I would be more comfortable within the confines of the North Pole.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

hpowders said:


> Which is better? A tour going to the North or South Pole? I'm from New York, so I feel I would be more comfortable within the confines of the North Pole.


If you're going to the north magnetic pole the compass will go crazy as you approach it. Do not abuse your compass! Go to the regular North Pole and get the regular frostbite. You can get ice pretzels on every street sort of just like NY. As for the South Pole: beware, you might become part of a multi-national experiment.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

A tour to the south pole involves some walking. Ask Robert Falcon Scott.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

ldiat said:


> well if the [world] was flat[,] all the cats would have knocked [every]thing off...


Now I get it! Cat lovers will recognize this behavior immediately. It's all part of cats testing whether gravity is still operative. If they didn't constantly monitor........


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Strange Magic said:


> The amount of simple human bungling/error/incompetence, when mixed with random or unforeseen effects or consequences, can often lead to accusations of conspiracy when only gross negligence or stupidity (the normal default state of much human activity) is behind it all.


I believe that is the actual point of much of Pynchon's conspiracy fiction, though many fans don't realize it.

We can also see this playing out in the "russia collusion" landscape, along with deliberate conspiracies...


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Global Warming  See other thread.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

You know that bit in a rugby game where eight players from each team lock together.

It's call a scrum, and it's part of the game.

Or is it?

Actually they are all talking.

About YOU!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

What's the actual conspiracy in Flat Earth theory? Who wants to hide the "truth" about Earth's flatness from us and why?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2018)

Dim7 said:


> What's the actual conspiracy in Flat Earth theory? Who wants to hide the "truth" about Earth's flatness from us and why?


Talk Classical moderators.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

shirime said:


> Talk Classical moderators.


Who are of course the Illuminati.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Always remember that the ultimate proof of the vast reach and power of a time-and-world-spanning conspiracy is the fact that every scrap and tittle of evidence has been completely hidden for years, if not centuries, except from a few goomballs in their basements on the Dark Web, and the guy down the pub, too, of course.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

1. 


Thomyum2 said:


> Since we are in a music forum here, I thought it could be an interesting exercise to try to tie some of the ideas here in this thread to the topics of classical music, as much of a stretch as that might seem. But in fact, this particular post by joen_cph did actually strike me as resonating a bit with some of the discussions and controversies I've been following in other recent threads.
> 
> Certainly the field of politics is very different in its scope and reach into the daily lives of many people than that of the aesthetics of classical music, but there is a commonality. I think that what the emergence of conspiracy theories illustrates, as is alluded to above, is an underlying breakdown of consensus about particular questions or issues, or moreover, of consensus about the accepted mechanisms for arriving at answers to questions, e.g. how to evaluate what sources or investigational methods are reliable ways to arrive at understanding. As a result we seem to get into a lot of confrontation over certain issues where consensus diverges, with offense often given or taken, whether intentional or not, and we seem to have difficulty finding our ways out of it. So I see a pattern of discourse, whether it be in issues of politics or of tastes in music, and I think many here might agree with me that it is interesting but also sometimes perplexing to see how some of these discussions, such as the controversies over some forms of modern music, often blow up or devolve into repetitive contention that mirrors what we see in political debate.
> 
> The rise of the internet and other advanced communication technologies has certainly made the world smaller and in a way, has brought us all face-to-face with each other where we are quickly confronted with those whose tastes, opinions and truths differ from our own. I often see our current era as one where we are wrestling with this and trying to find our path forward, whether it be in politics or the arts. Any thoughts?


"Any thoughts?"

A Christian friend of mine said that Mohammedism is the biggest conspiracy he can think of. I remarked to him it's just a belief in one god exclusively and fiercely according to the memory of the man Muhammad etc..

It seemed quite ironic coming from a religious man. I would think that ancient Hindu believers would have thought that any religion coming after them would be a world-encompassing conspiracy, based on lies and disinformation and the authorization of holy writings. But some ironies are lost on me too..


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2018)

An actual political conspiracy was just uncovered here in Australia where neo-Nazi/alt-right groups were plotting to take over major political parties from the inside and change their policies to become more extreme.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

shirime said:


> An actual political conspiracy was just uncovered here in Australia where neo-Nazi/alt-right groups were plotting to take over major political parties from the inside and change their policies to become more extreme.


That sounds like normal behavior for special interest groups. And in fact isn't a political party, in the final analysis, a conspiracy in the same way?


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Sounds familiar to me as well, with the usual hyperbolic slant. No doubt they hacked someone, lied every step of the way, have bad teeth and like guns...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

KenOC said:


> That sounds like normal behavior for special interest groups. And in fact isn't a political party, in the final analysis, a conspiracy in the same way?


I know that the US has seen extreme currents in the political culture recently, and you have the possibility of a president independent of party politics, plus only two major parties, but normally the system is built upon that if you join a party, you largely agree with its policy and the constitution, not that you lie about your convictions and secretly work against all of this. It is the task of the party to keep that line. Unfortunately, recent populist vulgarizations and radicalizations have made political culture, and options for enlightened dialogue and compromizes, decline in some places. The bigger a range of parties, the better the chances that you feel well represented.


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