# If you can't say anything nice...



## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

This thread is for people to leave nice comments about singers, operas, composers, conductors and directors they otherwise loathe, or are simply indifferent to. (Please don't use this thread as a place to surreptitiously praise musicians/operas you already like a lot.)

Chris Merritt. His presence in an opera is usually enough to send me running the other way. Or listening with the horrified fascination of waiting for a staged train wreck. That said, I very much enjoyed his Arnold in Riccardo Muti's 1980s William Tell. And can't think of anyone singing it better in recent memory. It still feels trainwreck-y, but somehow enjoyable.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Ricardo Muti. When he leads the CSO, it always seems as if the Musicians have tuned it up an extra notch, and aren't on Autopilot. He also can be quite funny in his comments from the stage


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

In other threads I've made my dislike for tenor Roberto Alagna pretty well known; usually, he's a tenor who does absolutely nothing for me, especially when it comes to Italian opera. That said, his voice has always been very well-suited to French music, and if I _had_ to listen to him it would be in that repertoire.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Let's see. What can I say nice about Kurt Baum? 
Ah yes. That man sure does have a powerful voice.

My guilty dislike confession (hold the rotten tomatoes):
Licia Albanese sounds to me like a little ol' grandma but man oh man can she bring you to tears simply by her acting ability alone. The lady telegraphs soul and sensitivity to her roles like nobody's business. (Case in point: Her Madama Butterfly)


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I try not to post comments about singers that I don't like in the threads devoted to them. One of my least favourite sopranos is Renee Fleming. She would be my prime example of 'a beautiful voice is not enough'. However, her recording of Rusalka on CD is wonderful, vocally, musically and dramatically.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'll compliment Patrice Chereau on his ability to direct singers and get fine acting performances out of them, which made his Bayreuth _Ring_ interesting to watch despite such idiocies as Rhinemaiden hookers living on the Grand Coulee Dam and Brunnhilde's immolation looking like a kitchen fire in a New York tenement. Despite his good work with actors, he deserves to experience a much bigger fire somewhere. :devil:

Oops!. I was only supposed to say something nice!


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Let's see. What can I say nice about Kurt Baum?
> Ah yes. That man sure does have a powerful voice.
> 
> My guilty dislike confession (hold the rotten tomatoes):
> Licia Albanese sounds to me like a little ol' grandma but man oh man can she bring you to tears simply by her acting ability alone. The lady telegraphs soul and sensitivity to her roles like nobody's business. (Case in point: Her Madama Butterfly)


It's funny how we all perceive things so differently, because to my ears it's just the opposite with regard to Albanese: good voice, but vocal acting bordering on the melodramatic that doesn't really move me.

Here are a couple more:

Elisabeth Schwarzkopf -- I don't care for her interpretive style, but her timbre is one of the purest soprano timbres I've ever heard.

Leonard Warren -- Of all the famous American Verdi baritones (and this includes current ones like Quinn Kelsey), Warren is the only one I've never been able to "warm to" emotionally. But he was by any standards a great baritone, with an extraordinary voice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> It's funny how we all perceive things so differently, because to my ears it's just the opposite with regard to Albanese: good voice, but vocal acting bordering on the melodramatic that doesn't really move me.
> 
> Here are a couple more:
> 
> ...


Ha! I feel that way about Warren too. Magnificent voice with a rich, distinctive timbre, but somehow leaves me luke-cool (though in my case he may not be the only one who doesn't move me much - but I'll be nice, as per the OP, and not name names).


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Ha! I feel that way about Warren too. Magnificent voice with a rich, distinctive timbre, but somehow leaves me luke-cool (though in my case he may not be the only one who doesn't move me much - but I'll be nice, as per the OP, and not name names).


Of course, I am aware that many people find Warren's timbre very emotive; for example, the actor Tony Randall said once that Warren had only to open his mouth and Randall would start crying. I wish I could say it has the same effect on me, but it doesn't. I've teared up while listening to Milnes, Tibbett, and Merrill (which is a bit ironic, since many seem to think Merrill was without emotion), but never Warren. Again, he had a great voice; I just don't respond to it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Of course, I am aware that many people find Warren's timbre very emotive; for example, the actor Tony Randall said once that Warren had only to open his mouth and Randall would start crying. I wish I could say it has the same effect on me, but it doesn't. I've teared up while listening to Milnes, Tibbett, and Merrill (which is a bit ironic, since many seem to think Merrill was without emotion), but never Warren. Again, he had a great voice; I just don't respond to it.


Some singers have more impact live, and sing with more feeling away from the recording microphones. Warren's voice sounds as is if it would have filled the house impressively with a big, warm sound.


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## Steatopygous (Jul 5, 2015)

If you can't say anything nice about anybody .... come and sit by me. 
(copyright Eleanor Roosevelt)


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Renee Fleming is the most exasperating singer with one of the most stunning sounds -- a voice like velvet, (probably the most beautiful soprano voice out there), but for some idiotic reason she enjoys over emoting as in her Traviata line, "e ta-a-a-ardi", and swooping and scooping like her former jazz singing days.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> This thread is for people to leave nice comments about singers, operas, composers, conductors and directors they otherwise loathe, or are simply indifferent to. (Please don't use this thread as a place to surreptitiously praise musicians/operas you already like a lot.)
> 
> Chris Merritt. His presence in an opera is usually enough to send me running the other way. Or listening with the horrified fascination of waiting for a staged train wreck. That said, I very much enjoyed his Arnold in Riccardo Muti's 1980s William Tell. And can't think of anyone singing it better in recent memory. It still feels trainwreck-y, but somehow enjoyable.


Why one earth starts such a horrible thread, this will end up in a blood bath


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

I agree with you (about Renee Fleming). I don't have a passionate dislike for her but I prefer a cleaner, more precise tone. I find her sound a bit "woolly". Although I don't know if that is the right word to use to describe her. Gundula Janowitz (who sang a lot of the same repertoire as Fleming) is the type of sound I prefer in Mozart and Strauss. Or Lucia Popp. And I also agree with you that I've never heard any great interpretative insight from Fleming (I presume that's what you mean by 'a beautiful voice is not enough'). She's very musical and her singing is always very polished but she's never really done it for me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

damianjb1 said:


> I agree with you (about Renee Fleming). I don't have a passionate dislike for her but I prefer a cleaner, more precise tone. I find her sound a bit "woolly". Although I don't know if that is the right word to use to describe her. Gundula Janowitz (who sang a lot of the same repertoire as Fleming) is the type of sound I prefer in Mozart and Strauss. Or Lucia Popp. And I also agree with you that I've never heard any great interpretative insight from Fleming (I presume that's what you mean by 'a beautiful voice is not enough'). She's very musical and her singing is always very polished but she's never really done it for me.


You must be tone deaf


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Renee Fleming is the most exasperating singer with one of the most stunning sounds -- a voice like velvet, (probably the most beautiful soprano voice out there), but for some idiotic reason she enjoys over emoting as in her Traviata line, "e ta-a-a-ardi", and swooping and scooping like her former jazz singing days.


Sometimes it's hard to be sure whether you dislike an artist but like certain things about her, or like her but dislike certain things.

The swooping and the scooping, the oohing and the cooing, each tiny vibratoless croon and sigh precisely placed and impeccably controlled... Rene Fleming is a woman who knows exactly what she wants to do, wants to do as much to a musical line as she can think of doing whether or not the musical line calls for it or can bear it, and does it perfectly. I love her voice and her intelligence, but she can drive me bonkers. I just want to say, "Renee, you're fabulous! Now stop harassing the music and just sing it!"

Needless to say, Fleming has done some fantastic things. Skip her attempts at bel canto and try her in Strauss or Rachmaninoff. I love her "Night Songs" with Jean-Yves Thibaudet. I'm also fond of her American opera album, "I Want Magic!"


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Pugg said:


> Why one earth starts such a horrible thread, this will end up in a blood bath


It doesn't have to, though, provided posters put more emphasis on the positives than on the negatives.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Why? Because I have different taste to you?


Pugg said:


> You must be tone deaf


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> It doesn't have to, though, provided posters put more emphasis on the positives than on the negatives.


My advice: if you don't like it, don't listen to it, whoever it may be, you can only really criticise if you can do better


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Pugg said:


> My advice: if you don't like it, don't listen to it, whoever it may be, you can only really criticise if you can do better


Well, I think it goes without saying that if you don't like something, you won't listen to it unless you have to. But it seems to me that the point of this thread was to give us a place write about only the positive aspects of things we personally dislike (which involves looking at those things with a certain amount of objectivity). As for criticizing performances you yourself could never "top," I actually agree that one should take care not to make critical statements that are rash or presumptuous; on the other hand, if we all avoided criticizing what we couldn't do better ourselves, then forums like this couldn't really exist, could they. I mean, I can't sing opera myself, but I can tell if someone's rendition of an aria isn't to my taste, and attempt (politely) to point out what I think is wrong with it. It's absolutist statements that cause trouble.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Well, I think it goes without saying that if you don't like something, you won't listen to it unless you have to. But it seems to me that the point of this thread was to give us a place write about only the positive aspects of things we personally dislike (which involves looking at those things with a certain amount of objectivity). As for criticizing performances you yourself could never "top," I actually agree that one should take care not to make critical statements that are rash or presumptuous; on the other hand, if we all avoided criticizing what we couldn't do better ourselves, then forums like this couldn't really exist, could they. I mean, I can't sing opera myself, but I can tell if someone's rendition of an aria isn't to my taste, and attempt (politely) to point out what I think is wrong with it. It's absolutist statements that cause trouble.


That's what I meant , tanks you for this :cheers:


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

To return to the thread...

My antipathy towards Zubin Mehta is well known and based on much experience, however tonight I have been watching the 1977 Royal Opera House New Year's Eve performance of Die Fledermaus conducted by Mehta and I have to say that many of the characteristics that I find annoying in much of his conducting, are just about perfect to drive along this frothy celebration.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Why one earth starts such a horrible thread, this will end up in a blood bath


I think it's a wonderful thread and funnily enough I was going to start a similar one yesterday! (Great minds think alike?) As I have posted before, I found it frustrating when people made predictable choices in the 'best recordings' thread. (E.g. Passing on voting for a recording because there isn't one with the person's favourite singer in, or always voting for the Callas recording because 'she is so wonderful' it doesn't matter if the sound, conductor and rest of the cast are worse than all the other contenders, or other voting patterns that can only be described as based on prejudicial bias, rather than objective, open minded voting.)

I could partake in such a partisan approach and declare that all Fleming's recordings and performances are worthless and to be avoided, but I recognise that all singers have something to bring to the table. That is what this thread is for, it's a positive thread, not a negative one.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

damianjb1 said:


> I agree with you (about Renee Fleming). I don't have a passionate dislike for her but I prefer a cleaner, more precise tone. I find her sound a bit "woolly". Although I don't know if that is the right word to use to describe her. Gundula Janowitz (who sang a lot of the same repertoire as Fleming) is the type of sound I prefer in Mozart and Strauss. Or Lucia Popp. And *I also agree with you that I've never heard any great interpretative insight from Fleming (I presume that's what you mean by 'a beautiful voice is not enough').* She's very musical and her singing is always very polished but she's never really done it for me.


That's exactly what I mean! Although I don't find her musical, she quite often mangles the phrases (particularly in Italian opera). I agree that her singing is very technically polished.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Pugg said:


> You must be tone deaf


That seems a somewhat rude comment to me. From what I've seen from your comments in other threads one of the singers that you don't like is Maria Callas. Do you have anything nice to say about her singing? And perhaps it's time to have a thread dedicated to Renee where you can post the things you like about her and some YouTube clips to illustrate your comments?

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

What kills me about Renee is that her voice is so exquisitely gorgeous she didn't HAVE to do those things.
What bothers me is that she CHOSE to do them. She's not blind, nor deaf. She's read and heard these comments ad nauseam before and just didn't care.
I'll give her this: She's a smart cookie. She knew when to close the curtain and, unlike Pav and some others, end up on top.
She deserves accolades. She brought one of life's most stunning voices to the world of opera. Whether some of us found her actions exasperating, or not, we're all lucky she came around in our lifetime.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I want to say - because this is a nice thread and I'm (basically) a nice guy and this is New Year's Day and I'm hoping this year will be nicer than last year - that the first time I heard Renee Fleming was as Desdemona with Domingo at the Met. She was young then and her singing was less mannered. She was perfectly lovely. I wasn't much aware of the progress of her early career, and the next thing I recall hearing was a concert performance of the "Song to the Moon" from Rusalka. I was just bowled over by its beauty and poignancy. Since then Renee has often given me pleasure; I even like some of her forays into popular music and jazz, and love her virtuoso rendition of Joni Mitchell's "River." See what you think:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The Conte said:


> That seems a somewhat rude comment to me. From what I've seen from your comments in other threads one of the singers that you don't like is Maria Callas. Do you have anything nice to say about her singing? And perhaps it's time to have a thread dedicated to Renee where you can post the things you like about her and some YouTube clips to illustrate your comments?
> 
> N.


http://www.talkclassical.com/40950-melody-day.html


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Pugg said:


> http://www.talkclassical.com/40950-melody-day.html


Thanks for the link. I was thinking of a thread specifically dedicated to Renee here in the opera forum, not just for posting videos, but also exchanging the things you like about her. If you fear it being 'hijacked' by Renee haters you could have a rule against negative comments.

Just a suggestion.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

This thread seems to have become a discussion of the relative merits of Renee Fleming, and I don't really wish to de-rail it, other than to say I have first-hand knowledge of the lady, having worked with her in the London Symphony Orchestra's semi-staged version of *A Streetcar Named Desire* at the Barbican. I had the tiny role of the doctor who takes Blanche to the lunatic asylum at the end, and played one of Stanley's cronies, as well as one of the ghostly figures of the soldiers Blanche imagines, with Fleming at one point draping herself over my naked torso.

On a personal level, I found her absolutely charming, and not in the least prima donna-ish, a complete professional and serious about her work. At one point we had a discussion about how much more she had enjoyed doing the role of Blanche this time round, having been able to dig deeper into the character. Actors often say the same thing about re-visiting a role they've played before, so she is evidently a thinking artist. Hearing that voice close to was something else as well. It was actually much larger than I'd imagined and arrestingly beautiful from top to bottom.

That said, like Woodduck, I have certain reservations about her work in certain fields, and I too am irritated by the jazzy swoops and slides, which increasingly crept into her performances in later years. I don't like her in Italian opera at all, and, though her Violetta was technically well-sung when I saw her do it at Covent Garden, I didn't feel she was really inside the role, the gestures, both musical and physical, seeming more applied than felt from within. On the other hand I absolutely love her recordings of both *Rusalka* and *Thais*, both gloriously sung, and I enjoy many of her recital discs, the American _I Want Magic_ album, _Strauss Heroines _and _Great Operatic Scenes_ in particular. In none of these is she either un-musical or interpretively bland.

I'd certainly place her as one of the greatest sopranos of recent times.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

*GregMitchell:* I've watched Fleming's Violetta on Youtube, in the Los Angeles Opera production with Rolando Villazon as Alfredo. I suppose I'd agree with you that during Acts I and II she didn't seem totally "inside" the role; however, Act III was a different story, IMO. In that act I believe everything -- voice, acting (vocal and physical), costuming and makeup -- came together to produce a truly moving death scene.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> *GregMitchell:* I've watched Fleming's Violetta on Youtube, in the Los Angeles Opera production with Rolando Villazon as Alfredo. I suppose I'd agree with you that during Acts I and II she didn't seem totally "inside" the role; however, Act III was a different story, IMO. In that act I believe everything -- voice, acting (vocal and physical), costuming and makeup -- came together to produce a truly moving death scene.


I'm prepared to believe you. After all, artists are human. There are times when everything comes together and times when it doesn't. There is so much intangible that goes into the creation of a great performance.

When I saw her in the role in London, I was strangely unmoved, nowhere near as touching as Cotrubas, who was vocally much more fallible, Gheorghiu or Josephine Barstow, who was devastating in the role with English National Opera back in the 1970s.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Composers:

I appreciate Berlioz' contributions to both orchestration and the Romantic cultural movement
Holst's Planets can be fun

Performers:

Lang Lang does give off a Lisztian flair that would be fun to see live


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

For Anna Netrebko, the only nice things I can say about her: after she butchered Mozart (Don Giovanni), bel canto (Puritani, Anna Bolena, Lucia Di Lammermoor), Verdi (La Traviata, Macbeth, Il Trovatore), Massenet (Manon), Puccini(La Boheme) and Strauss ( Four Last Songs), there are still musics I enjoy that she has not touched _just yet_.

...And at least she seems a little bit humble.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

silentio said:


> For Anna Netrebko, the only nice things I can say about her: after she butchered Mozart (Don Giovanni), bel canto (Puritani, Anna Bolena, Lucia Di Lammermoor), Verdi (La Traviata, Macbeth, Il Trovatore), Massenet (Manon), Puccini(La Boheme) and Strauss ( Four Last Songs), there are still musics I enjoy that she has not touched _just yet_.
> 
> ...And at least she seems a little bit humble.


How lucky we are to have a soprano of that caliber in our lifetime.
I think I'll zip my lip on my reply. As Thumper once said, "If ya can't say nuthin' nice, don't say nuthin' at all!")


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Composers:
> 
> I appreciate Berlioz' contributions to both orchestration and the Romantic cultural movement
> Holst's Planets can be fun
> ...


My mom, a classical musician, once remarked while listening to one of his pieces on the radio, "Berlioz has got to be the dullest composer on the planet." I don't know enough about his music to know whether I agree or not.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> My mom, a classical musician, once remarked while listening to one of his pieces on the radio, "Berlioz has got to be the dullest composer on the planet." I don't know enough about his music to know whether I agree or not.


Then she must have heard a very ordinary performance. Berlioz is one of the most original, most thrilling, most exciting composers I know, but difficult to bring off. Too many conductors in the past didn't really understand him, and tried to iron out his idiosyncrasies. Try Colin Davis in anything by Berlioz really. I guarantee you won't find him dull.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

The baritone Leo Nucci is one of the very few opera singers I literally cannot bear to listen to. That said, based on what I've seen he was a truly great Rigoletto from the acting perspective.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I envy anyone having only a few opera singers they find unbearable! I suppose I felt that way once. After listening to opera for fifty-some years I now find listening to a majority of present-day singers, perhaps not unbearable, but far from a satisfying way to spend my time. At the end of the average Met broadcast I feel pleased mainly at having satisfied my curiosity and made a gesture toward being up-to-date, and only occasionally at having been given an encouraging demonstration of vocal and artistic prowess, or evidence of the health of the art of singing. So far this season I've come away feeling, "Is this the best the Met can do? Wasn't the Met once home to the greatest voices in the world - or are these now in fact the greatest voices in the world?" I don't in fact believe that to be the case; I suspect that the Met no longer has quite the pre-eminent position it once had among the opera houses of the world, and that there are many fine artists we've hardly even heard of happy to be concentrating their efforts elsewhere. That isn't such a bad thing; at least it's pleasant to think that operatic singing might be in better shape than I'm aware. Still, it's the Met, at least in America, that has for generations reliably brought opera to vast numbers of people unable to get to live performances, and the name "Metropolitan Opera" has traditionally been a symbol of culture, as well as many people's introduction to opera and great singing. So far, this season, I've heard some opera classics presented to us by singers who've come nowhere close to some who've sung this music in the past, and on the Met's own boards.

But I guess if I'm supposed to say something nice here it would be that they brought us a lovely young Gilda in Nadine Sierra to relieve what was otherwise a _Rigoletto_ at a level of provincial routine.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Bellinilover said:


> My mom, a classical musician, once remarked while listening to one of his pieces on the radio, "Berlioz has got to be the dullest composer on the planet." I don't know enough about his music to know whether I agree or not.


Since this thread is about nice comments, I won't add more than saying I agree with your mom.

But don't take our words for it, listen and decide for yourself. You might find him to be great!


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Well Silentio, that isn't the sort of post I was soliciting for this thread, but I do have to give you points for bitchy creativity. :lol:


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Then she must have heard a very ordinary performance. Berlioz is one of the most original, most thrilling, most exciting composers I know, but difficult to bring off. Too many conductors in the past didn't really understand him, and tried to iron out his idiosyncrasies. Try Colin Davis in anything by Berlioz really. I guarantee you won't find him dull.


I like Berlioz opera La damnation de Faust.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sloe said:


> I like Berlioz opera La damnation de Faust.


Admittedly it's now often staged, but it isn't actually an opera. Berlioz called it a _Legende dramatique_ and didn't intend it to be staged.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Admittedly it's now often staged, but it isn't actually an opera. Berlioz called it a _Legende dramatique_ and didn't intend it to be staged.




And I wanted to say something nice. But what I really said was that Berlioz never made a good opera. What a failure.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Since this thread is about nice comments, I won't add more than saying I agree with your mom.
> 
> But don't take our words for it, listen and decide for yourself. *You might find him to be great!*


He is.

As far as I'm concerned the three Bs were Bach, Beethoven and *Berlioz!!!* One of the great originals.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

silentio said:


> For Anna Netrebko, the only nice things I can say about her: after she butchered Mozart (Don Giovanni), bel canto (Puritani, Anna Bolena, Lucia Di Lammermoor), Verdi (La Traviata, Macbeth, Il Trovatore), Massenet (Manon), Puccini(La Boheme) and Strauss ( Four Last Songs), there are still musics I enjoy that she has not touched _just yet_.
> 
> ...And at least she seems a little bit humble.


I think she hasn't always chosen roles that she is best suited to vocally. You need to see/hear her in Russian opera, her Eugene Onegin at the Met was a sensation.

N.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Solti's recordings sure sound great, even though they tend to be episodic, unlyrical, bombastic and overly brassy. He also had an uncanny ability to assemble terrific casts for his recordings, which recordings are unfortunately often let down by his performances in the pit.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I think she hasn't always chosen roles that she is best suited to vocally. You need to see/hear her in Russian opera, her Eugene Onegin at the Met was a sensation.
> 
> N.


Yes she was fine as Tatiana at the Met but I also saw the alternate cast with Poplavskaya who actually suited the role of Tatiana even better.
Her Nebs was a standout in the Met's_ Macbeth_. She brought a new and fresh element to her Lady Macbeth.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I would like to share a few words about our Lord and Savior Ludwig van Beethoven.

He was a noble-hearted, misunderstood, reclusive man who found music was his true love, and I respect him for that. He influenced _innumerable _amounts of people, from composers to concertgoers. He was loved and respected by all my favorite composers. And, for many reasonable reasons. First, his technical skill was of the highest order, and he wrote memorable motifs, themes, and other kinds of thematic contents. He was a great orchestrator of his time, innovative in his instrumentations, and progressive in his use of interaction between different voices. He pushed thematic and harmonic development to its limit through lots of hard work and self-analysis. Really, he's a swell guy. _If only I liked him,_ I'd call him my hero, since he had all the characteristics of a worthy man and artist. Not as a demigod, just as a brilliant human being.

_It really is such a shame he interests me for everything but his music._


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> _It really is such a shame he interests me for everything but his music._


I forwarded your posting to Ludwig. Then I remembered, too late, that he can get really, really mad. Maybe you'd better arrange to not be at home for a couple of days. I apologize, I really do!


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

KenOC said:


> I forwarded your posting to Ludwig. Then I remembered, too late, that he can get really, really mad. Maybe you'd better arrange to not be at home for a couple of days. I apologize, I really do!


OH! You think the ghost of Beethoven will now stalk me for a while? Don't worry, I got a body guard.  But certainly he would be flattered to be called "Lord and Savior" so he may not be so harsh on me after all. 

Love your current avatar by the way.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> _It really is such a shame he interests me for everything but his music._


Quick, get the Trovatore stake out, we have a heretic in our midst! :devil:

N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> _It really is such a shame he interests me for everything but his music._


Oh dear! Poor old you!


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Yes she was fine as Tatiana at the Met but I also saw the alternate cast with Poplavskaya who actually suited the role of Tatiana even better.
> Her Nebs was a standout in the Met's_ Macbeth_.* She brought a new and fresh element to her Lady Macbeth*.


Cleavage? :lol:


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> Cleavage? :lol:


Tee hee!:lol: 
Say what you will, but that lady's voice has grown into a richer, more velvet, appealing sound with the years. 
Yes, she's put on some poundage but somehow she has retained that really beautiful face.
I love her voice and I love her personality which is down-to-earth honest.
Lucky we are to have her. And I guess there are enough out there in opryland who must agree, because she sure can put the "bums" into the seats, and these days it ain't easy folks!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

A few years ago I watched a YouTube video to see what the Netrebko fuss was all about. The video was from recording the Barcarolle from Tales of Hoffman. My strongest memory of it was "who is the mezzo, she is good!" It was Elina Garanca. Since then I have seen the 2007 Opera Gala from Baden Baden also with Garanca and some so-so soprano who thought that she could sing Norma!


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Triplets said:


> Ricardo Muti. When he leads the CSO, it always seems as if the Musicians have tuned it up an extra notch, and aren't on Autopilot. He also can be quite funny in his comments from the stage


I LOVE HIM. Most of his recordings that I have are so exciting.


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> _It really is such a shame he interests me for everything but his music._


That really is such a shame. For me, Mozart and Beethoven are my favorite composers.

Mozart just thrills me - it's pure perfection, one interesting and amazing idea after another, not a single dull moment. He could be so thrilling and sublime at the same time. I've listened to my favorite works of his hundreds, if not thousands of times, and I swear I still hear new things. There couldn't be a more moving and accurate description of his music than it is the voice of God.

With Beethoven, it is all about emotion. My introduction to him was the 5th and 7th symphonies. The 1st and 4th movement of the 5th, and 4th movement of the 7th fill me with such joy. I just want to dance. I feel like I'm at a rock concert. Then, after those works, I heard Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto. When I got to the second movement, I started crying while listening to it, almost outright sobbing. I thought, "what the hell is wrong with me?" I wasn't feeling sad or depressed. I don't know what it is, but I cannot control my emotions, even today, when I listen to the 2nd movement. I get nearly the same reaction when I listen to the 4th movement of the 9th Symphony, the 1st of the 6th Symphony, the 1st of the 4th Piano Concerto and the Moonlight Sonata. I just can't explain it, and I feel ridiculous, but it is what it is. I feel this sense of unfulfillable longing in those works. Like heartbreak or something. So sad and so beautiful at the same time. More beautiful than sad I guess, maybe it's the beauty of those works that causes that reaction in me. I don't know, but it's there and on a day I won the lottery, if I listen to the 2nd movement of the 5th Piano Concerto I would be in tears.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

gellio said:


> I LOVE HIM. Most of his recordings that I have are so exciting.


I totally agree with you. His Macbeth and Aida are milestones in recording history.


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Pugg said:


> I totally agree with you. His Macbeth and Aida are milestones in recording history.


One thing about his Macbeth I never liked was how he rushed some parts (Lady M's cabaletta for instance). Sinopoli's Macbeth is superior in my opinion. Otherwise, when it comes to Verdi _today_, look no further than Maestro Muti.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Tuoksu said:


> One thing about his Macbeth I never liked was how he rushed some parts (Lady M's cabaletta for instance).  Sinopoli's Macbeth is superior in my opinion. Otherwise, when it comes to Verdi _today_, look no further than Maestro Muti.


For conducting Schippers Macbeth with Nilsson and Taddei is superb. Unfortunately he uses a cut text.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> One thing about his Macbeth I never liked was how he rushed some parts (Lady M's cabaletta for instance). Sinopoli's Macbeth is superior in my opinion. Otherwise, when it comes to Verdi _today_, look no further than Maestro Muti.


I would put a few others before Sinopoli, ( I do like his DVD recording) but the we are going in circles.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Barbara Frittoli: Though I personally find her a faceless interpreter with a charmless stage presence and a too-wide vibrato, I have always liked the actual color of her voice.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> In other threads I've made my dislike for tenor Roberto Alagna pretty well known; usually, he's a tenor who does absolutely nothing for me, especially when it comes to Italian opera. That said, his voice has always been very well-suited to French music, and if I _had_ to listen to him it would be in that repertoire.


This counts for me too, the best thing he did was Traviata conducted by Muti.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

I discovered, when I first started listening to opera that, if it was an aria that was new to me, then no matter how many times I played it, it would always remain tuneless if Pavarotti was singing it. Once I knew it well (thank you José Carreras), the problem vanished to a large extent, but it didn't endear me to Pavarotti. Two or three years on, I heard him at the ROH in "L'elisir d'amore" and could recognise and acknowledge the sheer beauty of the sound he produced.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Annied said:


> I discovered, when I first started listening to opera that, if it was an aria that was new to me, then no matter how many times I played it, it would always remain tuneless if Pavarotti was singing it. Once I knew it well (thank you José Carreras), the problem vanished to a large extent, but it didn't endear me to Pavarotti. Two or three years on, I heard him at the ROH in "L'elisir d'amore" and could recognise and acknowledge the sheer beauty of the sound he produced.


I saw him in The Met, doing Mario Cavaradossi, 1996 I believe, he could hardly walk any more. but his voice was incredible good.
Love his recordings also, but then again, each his / her own taste.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Pugg said:


> Love his recordings also, but then again, each his / her own taste.


Way back I had a hi-fi set up that would allow me to play a tape and a CD simultaneously and switch the speakers from one to the other. I had "Marechiare" sung by both Carreras and Pavarotti. It was fascinating. When you switched from one recording so that it picked up where the other left off, the difference was marked. Everyone I tried it out on heard it too, so I know it wasn't just me. Pavarotti was the equivalent to a straight line, whilst Carreras was a line full of gentle curves. (Although I may be the only person to whom that analogy makes any sense!)

I can understand completely, that for some, the Carreras version might well be too voluptuous and over the top and the Pavarotti version more beautiful because of the simplicity of its execution. What a poorer world it would be if we all liked the same things! For one thing we'd have lost either Carreras or Pavarotti and I came to appreciate both in their separate ways.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Bellini lover , possibly you would have like Leonard Warren more if you could have seen him perform live . But he died in 1960 , and not too many of the people who saw him on stage are still left . 
Sometimes, you need to see an opera singer perform live on stage to get the full impact of that performer's artistry .


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

superhorn said:


> Bellini lover , possibly you would have like Leonard Warren more if you could have seen him perform live . But he died in 1960 , and not too many of the people who saw him on stage are still left .
> Sometimes, you need to see an opera singer perform live on stage to get the full impact of that performer's artistry .


I am glad we have some wonderful recordings from the man.


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## Jemarchesurtousleschemins (Apr 3, 2017)

Kristine Opolais: Overall, not a fan of her Italian rep, but I do like her Rusalka


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jemarchesurtousleschemins said:


> Kristine Opolais: Overall, not a fan of her Italian rep, but I do like her Rusalka


However, she had Fleming way in front of her.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

not normally a fan of the "if you can't say anything nice" rule, but I also like the exercise of viewing the other side of the coin.

1) The bottom half of Tebaldi's range was wonderful. She would have made a lovely mezzo, more so than soprano imo.
2) I've never been a huge fan of Diana Damrau's timbre, but she is a top notch actress.
3) During the 20% of the time when she actually sings appropriate rep, Anna Netrebko has a warm, sensuous timbre. Even when she's not though, that woman has stage presence. No one can deny that.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

James Morris scoops & slides & often sings roles that are too low for him, but I love that he actually "sings" Wagner in the bel canto style as Wagner wanted.


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## Jemarchesurtousleschemins (Apr 3, 2017)

Pugg said:


> However, she had Fleming way in front of her.


That is also true.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

superhorn said:


> Bellini lover , possibly you would have like Leonard Warren more if you could have seen him perform live . But he died in 1960 , and not too many of the people who saw him on stage are still left .
> Sometimes, you need to see an opera singer perform live on stage to get the full impact of that performer's artistry .


He was a fine Rigoletto. He and Erna Berger were terrific together as Rigoletto and Gilda.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jemarchesurtousleschemins said:


> That is also true.


Even her second DVD is stunning .


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