# What is your opinion on Krips' Beethoven symphony cycle?



## Guest

I recently bought the cycle and thought the music quality wasn't bad at all as some people claim on the internet. Also this cycle is under EMI and not Everest. What's the difference?

I know it's a budget release but that doesn't mean its of inferior quality does it?

Also compared to Masur's Beethoven cycle, how does it stand up?


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## moody

karajan said:


> I recently bought the cycle and thought the music quality wasn't bad at all as some people claim on the internet. Also this cycle is under EMI and not Everest. What's the difference?
> 
> I know it's a budget release but that doesn't mean its of inferior quality does it?
> 
> Also compared to Masur's Beethoven cycle, how does it stand up?


Krips was an excellent conductor and can stand comparison with most.
I don't think he made a complete Beethoven cycle for Everest, the EMI one that you have is an entirely separate affair I imagine.But whatever the case rest peacefully.
I have been having another look and he did do a cycle with Everest so perhaps this is it! Nevertheless my general comments stand.
I had a look again and the label says Bescol not EMI and this is the Everest recording.


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## KenOC

moody said:


> Krips was an excellent conductor and can stand comparison with most.
> I don't think he made a complete Beethoven cycle for Everest...


Krips did indeed make a complete cycle for Everest with the London SO (I had it). Some of the old LP sets are available on Amazon, used. The set has been remastered and is now being sold for under ten bucks in a tin can. Search on "Beethoven tin can" or whatever and you'll find it easily.

I recently bought the "tin can" for old time's sake and find the sound much improved but the performances undistinguished compared with the better cycles available today.


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## moody

KenOC said:


> Krips did indeed make a complete cycle for Everest with the London SO (I had it). Some of the old LP sets are available on Amazon, used. The set has been remastered and is now being sold for under ten bucks in a tin can. Search on "Beethoven tin can" or whatever and you'll find it easily.
> 
> I recently bought the "tin can" for old time's sake and find the sound much improved but the performances undistinguished compared with the better cycles available today.


There was nothing undistinguished about Josef Krips.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> There was nothing undistinguished about Josef Krips.


The Everest LP of the 5th was one of my early purchases. My memory of the memory regarding it is that the sound, and the LP surface, was not good, but the performance was good. However, _KenOC_'s "undistinguished" would apply to its generic late Romantic interpretation and orchestral forces. If that is what he meant. Or even if not.


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## KenOC

Hilltroll72 said:


> However, _KenOC_'s "undistinguished" would apply to its generic late Romantic interpretation and orchestral forces. If that is what he meant. Or even if not.


That's about it. The performances sound today (to me of course) somewhat soft and flabby, and there is nothing very memorable, no "personality" if you will. "Generic" is a good term! That's not necessarily associated with the times, because there's plenty of personality in, for instance, the contemporary recordings by Walter on Columbia.

Walter's Beethoven cycle is available as an MP3 download at Amazon for nine bucks, in fine Sony remasters. This is a real bargain. Look for ASIN: B0050I2ZOQ.


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## Ukko

KenOC said:


> That's about it. The performances sound today (to me of course) somewhat soft and flabby, and there is nothing very memorable, no "personality" if you will. "Generic" is a good term! That's not necessarily associated with the times, because there's plenty of personality in, for instance, the contemporary recordings by Walter on Columbia.
> 
> Walter's Beethoven cycle is available as an MP3 download at Amazon for nine bucks, in fine Sony remasters. This is a real bargain. Look for ASIN: B0050I2ZOQ.


Hah. That is rather amusing and/or ironic in that most all of Walter's interpretations - of anything - strike me as soft, if by that you mean less emphatic, crescendos not building as high, as some of his contemporaries and semi-contemporaries, e.g. Kubelik and Kertesz. The 'flabby' thing I don't ascribe to music anyway (though it does apply to my body).


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## realdealblues

karajan said:


> I recently bought the cycle and thought the music quality wasn't bad at all as some people claim on the internet. Also this cycle is under EMI and not Everest. What's the difference?
> 
> I know it's a budget release but that doesn't mean its of inferior quality does it?
> 
> Also compared to Masur's Beethoven cycle, how does it stand up?


As far as I am aware, Krips only recorded the one cycle. I would assume if yours says EMI on it, that EMI (or Universal Music Group or whoever owns who now) probably owns Everest as well.

Budget Release does not necessarily mean inferior quality at all. Many budget releases are remastered versions that sound fine.

Compared to Masur's Cycle...it depends on what you are looking for. The Masur cycle was recorded later so sound quality is better. It's been some time since I listened to either recording although it seems like Krips had a little faster tempo over all. To me, it all really depends on how you like your Beethoven. Slower, Faster, Massive sounding, Smaller sounding, etc. It's all up to you.


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## moody

KenOC said:


> That's about it. The performances sound today (to me of course) somewhat soft and flabby, and there is nothing very memorable, no "personality" if you will. "Generic" is a good term! That's not necessarily associated with the times, because there's plenty of personality in, for instance, the contemporary recordings by Walter on Columbia.
> 
> Walter's Beethoven cycle is available as an MP3 download at Amazon for nine bucks, in fine Sony remasters. This is a real bargain. Look for ASIN: B0050I2ZOQ.


I just wonder if you were listening to the same thing that others were.
If you want the original Everest set you can buy it second hand for---$899.99 ,so i guess somebody thinks it is OK.
I am surprised to read criticism of an Everest recording because I have many and they are first rate.
But this is a label unknown in the UK called Bescol,as i have already indicated above. There seems .to be an agreement that the transfers could have been better.
One review says that Krips,a pupil of Weingartner,presents these works with blazing intensity,Herculean energy and dynamism.Tempi are consistantly fast---faster than Karajan.
Another one states that Krips was a great conductor and these exciting performances confirm that.
All very bizarre!
My experience of the man was very positive and I was always impressed.


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## KenOC

moody said:


> I just wonder if you were listening to the same thing that others were.


I was listening to neither the Everest nor the Bescol versions. It was Madacy's "Krips in a can," which has been remastered with better sound than either. There's info on the remastering in the Amazon reviews of this curious package. Seach ASIN: B000JMK6G2. If you like the Krips set, this is well worth picking up.

BTW the reviews are quite positive, but I can only speak for myself, if that's permitted!


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## bigshot

Krips was a standard bearer for a long time. A good solid conductor with a respectable career. I wouldn't describe him as soft and flabby. That description I would reserve for Haitink and Brendel. Philips was the soft flabby label.

By the way, this recording was made famous through a record club that I think tied in with newspapers to sell subscriptions. In any case, these recordings were ubiquitous in the early 60s. Even non classical music folks had a set.


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## StlukesguildOhio

It's been a while since I listened to the Krips Beethoven set... but from what I recall, I thought it was more than fine. His _Don Giovanni_, on the other hand, kicks butt!


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## KenOC

"Krips was a standard bearer for a long time. A good solid conductor with a respectable career. I wouldn't describe him as soft and flabby."

Josef Krips was far from "soft and flabby". I was referring only to his Beethoven cycle. In fact, Krips was celebrated in several revealing photos in the June 1961 issue of Playgirl in the article "Conductor Hunks." There is a reference to his "rock-hard abs," which are quite apparent in the photos. Look it up! :lol:


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## bigshot

Ha! I'm afraid I don't have a subscription to Playgirl!


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## moody

StlukesguildOhio said:


> It's been a while since I listened to the Krips Beethoven set... but from what I recall, I thought it was more than fine. His _Don Giovanni_, on the other hand, kicks butt!


His recording of Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung"with Rothenberger/Popp/Gedda/Unger and Frick was also most excellent.
EMI held it up for some time so as not to clash with Beecham's version,they then issued it on World Record Club.
Happily it is now available on CD.
While we're at it we should remember Josef's brother Henry who was the conductor of the South Australian Symphony Orchestra for twenty three years!

Karajan,have you already got Karajan's recordings of the Beethoven symphonies--as you're his namesake I suppose you should?

So it would seem that you have to buy a tin can or wait for Everest to appear.Unfortunately the set is not avalable in the UK canned or uncanned.


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## KenOC

​
If you saw this tin can in a store, empty, what would you expect to pay? Great for storing your stash, serving brownies, accumulating loose change, or a thousand other things. And you'd be the envy of your friends!


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## bigshot

You could put a ham sandwich in there!


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## KenOC

bigshot said:


> You could put a ham sandwich in there!


Checked with Wonder Bread. It fits fine, you don't even have to trim the crust!


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## Guest

Yes, i have heard all of his Beethoven symphonies from the 63 cycle. Quite Excellent!!!


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## tahnak

karajan said:


> I recently bought the cycle and thought the music quality wasn't bad at all as some people claim on the internet. Also this cycle is under EMI and not Everest. What's the difference?
> 
> I know it's a budget release but that doesn't mean its of inferior quality does it?
> 
> Also compared to Masur's Beethoven cycle, how does it stand up?


I do not have the full cycle of either Krips or Masur. Yet, I have heard them read individual symphonies. No, I will not listen to any of them. The first genuine cycle of substance is Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia and then Karajan/Berlin. This is my opinion on each Symphony
No. 1- Sir Charles Groves / Royal Liverpool Philharmonic
No. 2- Otto Klemperer/ Philharmonia
No. 3- Leonard Bernstein/ New York Philarmonic
No. 4- Andre Cluytens/ Berlin Philharmonic
No. 5- Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic
No. 6- Wilhelm Furtwangler/Rome RAI
No. 7 - Georg Solti/ Wiener Philharmoniker
No. 8- Herbert von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic
No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwangler/ Bayreuth 
Georg Solti/ Chicago
Leonard Bernstein/ New York Philharmonic
Zubin Mehta/ New York Philharmonic


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## moody

tahnak said:


> I do not have the full cycle of either Krips or Masur. Yet, I have heard them read individual symphonies. No, I will not listen to any of them. The first genuine cycle of substance is Otto Klemperer/Philharmonia and then Karajan/Berlin. This is my opinion on each Symphony
> No. 1- Sir Charles Groves / Royal Liverpool Philharmonic
> No. 2- Otto Klemperer/ Philharmonia
> No. 3- Leonard Bernstein/ New York Philarmonic
> No. 4- Andre Cluytens/ Berlin Philharmonic
> No. 5- Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic
> No. 6- Wilhelm Furtwangler/Rome RAI
> No. 7 - Georg Solti/ Wiener Philharmoniker
> No. 8- Herbert von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic
> No. 9 - Wilhelm Furtwangler/ Bayreuth
> Georg Solti/ Chicago
> Leonard Bernstein/ New York Philharmonic
> Zubin Mehta/ New York Philharmonic


I'm sure that each individual must choose what he likes best. But apart from Furtwaengler I couldn't disagree more,
Charles Groves--bore, Klemperer--yawn, Karajan--humourless,no soul.Mehta--lightweight.


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