# Underrated Beethoven symphonies



## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Out of the 9 symphonies by LvB, many of us would pick no. 5 or no. 9 being their best personal choice. Some of us would like no. 6, 3 or 7. Which of the 9 is the most underrated? 

I would pick no. 1. Not much discussion about no. 1 is on this board. Is no.1 his first symphony or the numbers are mixed up chronologically? I think Beethoven demonstrated a lot of his musical character, innovation and passion in no. 1. 

Which one would you pick to be most underrate and why? I would bet nobody will pick no. 5 or 9.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

8 is the most underrated. There is a quote out there that Beethoven called it better than 7. I would put 8 in his top three.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me the most underrated Beethoven symphony of highest quality is the Fourth, and if you don't believe me, listen to the Gunter Wand recording.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

General consensus seems to be the 3,5,6,7,9 are his best (not my preference) - from the rest, I pick the 4th (my fave after 6,5,3,7).


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

I definitely would go with No. 4. That opening movement is great, and I think especially hearing the transition from the codetta of the exposition to the repeat of the expo, is brilliant! If you haven't heard a recording of this work that takes the repeats into account, you should!! Also, the Scherzo, in my opinion, is one of Beethoven's best and most fun. The intro to this Symphony is also very unique in that it is the only intro that is in a minor key. I personally hear a bunch of similarities in that intro and the intro to Haydn's 101st Symphony. Anyways, it's at least one of my favorites of Beethoven's works. Very unique!!


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Bevo said:


> I definitely would go with No. 4. That opening movement is great, and I think especially hearing the transition from the codetta of the exposition to the repeat of the expo, is brilliant! If you haven't heard a recording of this work that takes the repeats into account, you should!! Also, the Scherzo, in my opinion, is one of Beethoven's best and most fun. The intro to this Symphony is also very unique in that it is the only intro that is in a minor key. I personally hear a bunch of similarities in that intro and the intro to Haydn's 101st Symphony. Anyways, it's at least one of my favorites of Beethoven's works. Very unique!!


4 for me too. I love the slow introduction to the opening movement, followed by a series of rushing scale figures that propel the music toward the main theme. The second movement is amazing as well, with its hypnotic dotted rhythms played softly at first and then loudly a few moments later.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Bevo said:


> I definitely would go with No. 4. That opening movement is great, and I think especially hearing the transition from the codetta of the exposition to the repeat of the expo, is brilliant! If you haven't heard a recording of this work that takes the repeats into account, you should!! Also, the Scherzo, in my opinion, is one of Beethoven's best and most fun. The intro to this Symphony is also very unique in that it is the only intro that is in a minor key. I personally hear a bunch of similarities in that intro and the intro to Haydn's 101st Symphony. Anyways, it's at least one of my favorites of Beethoven's works. Very unique!!


Although the seventh is my favourite, I also know it is popular so I agree with Bevo and go for no 4. My favourite movement in this symphony is the first as I think it is full of melody. My favourite recording is:
Academy of St Martin in the Fields, conducted by Joshua Bell.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The even-numbered ones may be underrated (how conveniently coincidental), but as for numbers 2 and 4 I underrate them myself, so I don't mind if others do. I've never understood why I can't get into the Fourth, but some things will forever be mysteries. I do know that Schumann wrote fondly of it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Schumann knew what he was talking about. The 4th is terrific.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> The even-numbered ones may be underrated (how conveniently coincidental), but as for numbers 2 and 4 I underrate them myself, so I don't mind if others do. I've never understood why I can't get into the Fourth, but some things will forever be mysteries. I do know that Schumann wrote fondly of it.


Schumann did write fondly about it, but he seems to have rated it much lower than the Third and the Fifth. He referred to the Fourth Symphony as a "slender Greek maiden between two Norse giants." I'm assuming that was intended to be somewhat pejorative, but maybe my interpretation of his words is incorrect. I have not read his entire review.

In any case, I personally disagree with Schumann's assessment--the Fourth Symphony has a giant slow movement that actually strikes me as being quite dramatic, not slender at all.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Schumann did write fondly about it, but he seems to have rated it much lower than the Third and the Fifth. He referred to the Fourth Symphony as a "slender Greek maiden between two Norse giants." I'm assuming that was intended to be somewhat pejorative, but maybe my interpretation of his words is incorrect. I have not read his entire review.
> 
> In any case, I personally disagree with Schumann's assessment--the Fourth Symphony has a giant slow movement that actually strikes me as being quite dramatic, not slender at all.


The point of this thread is to rate underrated Beethoven Symphonies. The 3rd and 5th belong to a different category.

The slow movement is one of Beethoven's greatest. I love the third movement too, with its especially noble trio.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

hpowders said:


> The point of this thread is to rate underrated Beethoven Symphonies. The 3rd and 5th belong to a different category.


Yes, but I was pointing out that Schumann (like many others) underrated the Fourth Symphony. He described it as slender compared to the Third and the Fifth. In my opinion, the Fourth Symphony should be rated as equal to those two works.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Yes, but I was pointing out that Schumann (like many others) underrated the Fourth Symphony. He described it as slender compared to the Third and the Fifth. In my opinion, the Fourth Symphony should be rated as equal to those two works.


Okay. I wouldn't. I would rate the 4th the best after 3, 5, 6,7 and 9.

But I'm glad I finally found someone who appreciates the 4th even more than I do. I especially love the way at the very end of the Wand performance of the third movement, the horns come to the fore for a triumphal conclusion to the movement. A magical effect! In too many performances, that terrific horn effect is too receded to make an impact.

Come over for some blueberry pie and the Wand CD.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I talked about LvB No. 8 on a related thread. See if you can find it.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

pcnog11 said:


> Which one would you pick to be most underrate and why? I would bet nobody will pick no. 5 or 9.


#2, and #4...perhaps because they are followed by giants of the repertoire, and people seem to not regard them as highly...both wonderful symphonies..


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I agree with the 4th being most underrated. It is my favorite even-numbered Beethoven symphony. I also think the 8th is underrated. Conversely, the 6th is his most overrated symphony (mind you, it is still great!).


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

Bevo said:


> I definitely would go with No. 4. That opening movement is great, and I think especially hearing the transition from the codetta of the exposition to the repeat of the expo, is brilliant! If you haven't heard a recording of this work that takes the repeats into account, you should!! Also, the Scherzo, in my opinion, is one of Beethoven's best and most fun. The intro to this Symphony is also very unique in that it is the only intro that is in a minor key. I personally hear a bunch of similarities in that intro and the intro to Haydn's 101st Symphony. Anyways, it's at least one of my favorites of Beethoven's works. Very unique!!


Nice post. Who are some of your favorite conductors in the 4th?


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## Bevo (Feb 22, 2015)

lextune said:


> Nice post. Who are some of your favorite conductors in the 4th?


I have to say, I personally love Bernstein's interpretation. I do love Karajan's interpretation as well, but I hate that he doesn't take the repeats. I know people have different views of opinion when it comes to taking repeats nowadays, but I prefer the repeats to be respected. It's in pieces like this that it can make all the difference. I ultimately think that Karajan gives a little bit of a better performance, but due to the repeats I think Bernstein is my favorite overall. Off from the thread topic a little here, but if you want a spot-on performance of the 5th and 7th, look no further than Carlos Kleiber and the Wiener Philharmonic.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

for me no. 8.
as for no. 4 mentioned here to tell the truth I don´t remember it quite well, other movements except of the first one, have to listen to it again


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

Bevo said:


> I have to say, I personally love Bernstein's interpretation. I do love Karajan's interpretation as well, but I hate that he doesn't take the repeats. I know people have different views of opinion when it comes to taking repeats nowadays, but I prefer the repeats to be respected. It's in pieces like this that it can make all the difference. I ultimately think that Karajan gives a little bit of a better performance, but due to the repeats I think Bernstein is my favorite overall. Off from the thread topic a little here, but if you want a spot-on performance of the 5th and 7th, look no further than Carlos Kleiber and the Wiener Philharmonic.


Ahhh....I know Kleiber well, and love him. I also agree with you regarding repeats. All repeats should be observed in Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, in any great composer.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The best recording of Beethoven's 4th may well be Bruno Walter's, available in Sony remastered stereo as part of a complete cycle, for a song, or it can be streamed for free with Amazon Prime membership:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Vo..._1_13?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1481682269&sr=1-13

Another very very good oldie is Rene Liebowitz with the Royal Philharmonic, with really virtuousic woodwind work, especially in the final movement. $2.69 for a big download, again including the whole symphony cycle.

https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Beeth...&qid=1481682370&sr=1-1-mp3-albums-bar-strip-0

Either may make you a Beethoven's 4th believer.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

My current favorite 4th is Gunther Wand with NDRSO. It's coupled with one of the best renditions of the 5th in what is a must-have CD for any Beethoven fan.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

lextune said:


> Nice post. Who are some of your favorite conductors in the 4th?


Reiner, Monteux, Mravinsky., Szell, Toscanini, Walter/NYPO


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I don't think any of them could be underrated. Even the very beginning of his first symphony is unique enough that we can never find any thing similar in the genre before it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I agree with the 4th being most underrated. It is my favorite even-numbered Beethoven symphony. I also think the 8th is underrated. Conversely, the 6th is his most overrated symphony (mind you, it is still great!).


If the 6th is overrated, it's an overrated miracle of poetic imagination and formal and orchestral mastery.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

It's impossible to overrate the 6th. There are no superlatives that do it justice. One might say it is the most gentle of his symphonies.

Come to think about it, it might even be underrated in the sense that the typical concert-going public tends to lose it, stuck between the 5th and the 9th.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Although the most underrated Beethoven symphony is probably the 2nd, because it is absolutely the least referred to in all contexts, my favorite uderrated one is the Fourth -- and I'll show my arcane tastes by lauding an old Furtwangler recording. The "menuetto" of the 8th is one of my alltime favorite Beethoven movements, so I can't call it underrated.

(And Schumann's comment about the Fourth was not meant to be pejorative -- merely an admiring characterization that contrasted it from its neighbors.)


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

DaveM said:


> It's impossible to overrate the 6th. There are no superlatives that do it justice. One might say it is the most gentle of his symphonies.


Except, of course, for that utterly awesome thunderstorm bit, which is as wild a ride as anything ever written - the next time a composer did anything like it, was a century later when Stravinsky unleashed "Rite of Spring" on unsuspecting audiences.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I've always liked the 2nd and play it often. Beethoven wrote a reduction of this symphony for piano trio that is surprisingly successful. It's included in some of the complete trio sets (Beaux Arts for instance). Worth hearing!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Didn't we had a topic about _overrated_ synonymies by Beethoven not so long ago?
Anyway they are all great, try writhing one, just like Mr. Beethoven did.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DaveM said:


> It's impossible to overrate the 6th. There are no superlatives that do it justice.


I am absolutely compelled to quote Sir George Grove from 1896, wrapping up his description of the Pastoral Symphony.

"In taking leave of the Symphony it is impossible not to feel deep gratitude to this great composer for the complete and unalloyed pleasure which he here puts within our reach. Gratitude, and also astonishment. In the great works of Beethoven, what vast qualities are combined! What boldness, what breadth, what beauty! What a cheerful, genial, beneficent view over the whole realm of Nature and man! And then what extraordinary detail, and so exquisitely managed, that with all its minuteness, the general effect is never sacrificed or impaired. The amount of contrivance and minute calculation of effect in the Andante (to speak of one movement only) is all but inconceivable, and yet the ear is never oppressed, or made aware of the subtle touches by which what might have been blemishes, had the one necessary hairbreadth been passed, become conspicuous beauties. However abstruse or characteristic the mood Of Beethoven, the expression of his mind is never dry or repulsive. To hear one of his great compositions is like contemplating not a work of art, or man's device, but a mountain, or forest, or other immense product of Nature-at once so complex and so simple; the whole so great and overpowering; the parts so minute, so lovely, and so consistent; and the effect so inspiring, so beneficial, and so elevating."

Gee, do ya think he liked it?


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> If the 6th is overrated, it's an overrated miracle of poetic imagination and formal and orchestral mastery.


It is overrated in that it is almost always rated higher than the 4th, which is the better work 

I do love the 6th, don't misunderstand me, just because I think it overrated.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Judith said:


> Although the seventh is my favourite, I also know it is popular so I agree with Bevo and go for no 4. My favourite movement in this symphony is the first as I think it is full of melody. My favourite recording is:
> Academy of St Martin in the Fields, conducted by Joshua Bell.


When did Joshua Bell become a conductor? St. Martin-in-the-Fields is not renowned to perform Beethoven symphonies. Maybe I am out of the loop....


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

KenOC said:


> I am absolutely compelled to quote Sir George Grove from 1896, wrapping up his description of the Pastoral Symphony.
> 
> "In taking leave of the Symphony it is impossible not to feel deep gratitude to this great composer for the complete and unalloyed pleasure which he here puts within our reach. Gratitude, and also astonishment. In the great works of Beethoven, what vast qualities are combined! What boldness, what breadth, what beauty! What a cheerful, genial, beneficent view over the whole realm of Nature and man! And then what extraordinary detail, and so exquisitely managed, that with all its minuteness, the general effect is never sacrificed or impaired. The amount of contrivance and minute calculation of effect in the Andante (to speak of one movement only) is all but inconceivable, and yet the ear is never oppressed, or made aware of the subtle touches by which what might have been blemishes, had the one necessary hairbreadth been passed, become conspicuous beauties. However abstruse or characteristic the mood Of Beethoven, the expression of his mind is never dry or repulsive. To hear one of his great compositions is like contemplating not a work of art, or man's device, but a mountain, or forest, or other immense product of Nature-at once so complex and so simple; the whole so great and overpowering; the parts so minute, so lovely, and so consistent; and the effect so inspiring, so beneficial, and so elevating."
> 
> Gee, do ya think he liked it?


Great comment! Have you heard Walter Bruno - Columbia Symphony Orchestra? Excellent articulation, emotionally engaged and beautifully performed.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sto...oven-symphony-no-6-in-f-major-op/8d6kgx70m0lb


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Bevo said:


> I definitely would go with No. 4. That opening movement is great, and I think especially hearing the transition from the codetta of the exposition to the repeat of the expo, is brilliant! If you haven't heard a recording of this work that takes the repeats into account, you should!! Also, the Scherzo, in my opinion,  is one of Beethoven's best and most fun. *The intro to this Symphony is also very unique in that it is the only intro that is in a minor key.* I personally hear a bunch of similarities in that intro and the intro to Haydn's 101st Symphony. Anyways, it's at least one of my favorites of Beethoven's works. Very unique!!


Isn't no. 5 in a minor key as well? Three Gs with an E-flat is a C minor if I am not mistaken.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2016)

this poll:
http://www.talkclassical.com/35153-...oven.html?highlight=beethoven+symphonies+poll
rates them 7, 9, 3, 5, 6, 4, 8, 1, 2

I rate them 3, 7, 9, 6, 5, 8, 4, 1, 2

pretty close to the poll. the only one that is more than one place off is number 3 which I rate two places higher than the poll. therefore, as highly rated as it is, I still think Symphony #3 is the most underrated


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

pcnog11 said:


> When did Joshua Bell become a conductor? St. Martin-in-the-Fields is not renowned to perform Beethoven symphonies. Maybe I am out of the loop....


I have the CD of Beethoven 4th & 7th by them. Joshua has been Musical Director for them for a number of years and he conducts from the violin.

Also watch the latest Bruchs Violin Concerto on You Tube


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

The fourth like most others.


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## keymasher (Nov 10, 2016)

Add another vote for the 4th. Was completely unfamiliar with it until a performance at the Detroit Symphony Orchestra this year. Wonderful work.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

I definitely has to go with the fourth as well. As much as the more popular works may be praised i consider the slow movement of the 4th his potentially finest symphonic creation. But the depth and range of the 8th certainly makes it an honourable mention. How a more or less deaf man could juggle such an array of noise inside his brilliant skull is beyond me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> I am absolutely compelled to quote Sir George Grove from 1896, wrapping up his description of the Pastoral Symphony.
> 
> "In taking leave of the Symphony it is impossible not to feel deep gratitude to this great composer for the complete and unalloyed pleasure which he here puts within our reach. Gratitude, and also astonishment. In the great works of Beethoven, what vast qualities are combined! What boldness, what breadth, what beauty! What a cheerful, genial, beneficent view over the whole realm of Nature and man! And then what extraordinary detail, and so exquisitely managed, that with all its minuteness, the general effect is never sacrificed or impaired. The amount of contrivance and minute calculation of effect in the Andante (to speak of one movement only) is all but inconceivable, and yet the ear is never oppressed, or made aware of the subtle touches by which what might have been blemishes, had the one necessary hairbreadth been passed, become conspicuous beauties. However abstruse or characteristic the mood Of Beethoven, the expression of his mind is never dry or repulsive. To hear one of his great compositions is like contemplating not a work of art, or man's device, but a mountain, or forest, or other immense product of Nature-at once so complex and so simple; the whole so great and overpowering; the parts so minute, so lovely, and so consistent; and the effect so inspiring, so beneficial, and so elevating."
> 
> Gee, do ya think he liked it?


Ah, the Good Old Days, when people had time to read and writers accommodated them.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> It is overrated in that it is almost always rated higher than the 4th, which is the better work
> 
> I do love the 6th, don't misunderstand me, just because I think it overrated.


It's a wise man who knows when he needs a smiley face.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> Great comment! Have you heard Walter Bruno - Columbia Symphony Orchestra? Excellent articulation, emotionally engaged and beautifully performed.
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sto...oven-symphony-no-6-in-f-major-op/8d6kgx70m0lb


IMO, the Bruno Walter/CSO recordings of Beethoven's 4th and 6th have never been bettered. You can get the entire set of Walter's symphonies, in fine Sony remasters, for $10.49 at Amazon (as a download).

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Vo..._1_14?s=dmusic&ie=UTF8&qid=1481767189&sr=1-14


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

For me, it is absolutely the 8th! Talk about a succinct, "neo-classical" masterpiece, similar to the 16th string quartet in a way. I feel it's on par with his greatest symphonies; it's just different, is all.

The 1st and 2nd are rated just about fine as they are
The 4th gets a lot of love around here as an underrated symphony. I agree it's perhaps underrated, but I'm still not in love with it like I am the 6th and the 8th.
The 6th isn't underrated. I've read a lot of posts that declare the Pastoral as their absolute favorite.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

After George Washington and Ben Franklin heard the CD of Günter Wand's performance of Beethoven's 4th Symphony, they decided to honor it by declaring July 4th as Independence Day.

Hey _Lorna._ They knew what they were _Doone._


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## bz3 (Oct 15, 2015)

The 8th without a doubt. I don't think Beethoven was being coy when he said it was better than his 7th, but even if he was he struck on a truth. Melodious and rhythmic but highly intricate - it has everything a listener could want (except for a slow movement!). The finale is my favorite of all Beethoven's symphonic final movements.

The 4th is no doubt a great work but I wouldn't put it on par with the 3rd, 6th or 9th personally. The 8th I would.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

I echo with most people that replid to this tread. The 4th is quite underrated, I am not familiar with it. Which recording would you suggest? Beethoven's birthday is in 2 days, let's have a listening session on his works.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> I echo with most people that replid to this tread. The 4th is quite underrated, I am not familiar with it. Which recording would you suggest? Beethoven's birthday is in 2 days, let's have a listening session on his works.


Symphony No. 4 in B-flat major, Op. 60 (composed 1806, premièred 1807)
1 - Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony Orchestra
2 - Pierre Monteux, London Symphony Orchestra
3 (tie) - Carlos Kleiber, Bavarian State Orchestra - 



3 (tie) - Paul Kletzki, Czech Philharmonic Orchestra - 



5 - Paavo Jarvi, Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie
6 - Arturo Toscanini, NBC Symphony
7 - Giovanni Antonini, Kammerorchester Basel
8 - Eugen Jochum, London Symphony Orchestra - http://tinyurl.com/zgfeg8s
9 (tie) - Otto Klemperer, Philharmonia Orchestra
9 (tie) - Kurt Masur, Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra 1970s -


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Symphony No. 4 in B-flat major, Op. 60 (composed 1806, premièred 1807)
> 1 - Bruno Walter, Columbia Symphony Orchestra
> 2 - Pierre Monteux, London Symphony Orchestra
> 3 (tie) - Carlos Kleiber, Bavarian State Orchestra -
> ...


Thanks KenOC. How do you find time to listen to all of them? Great collection!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> Thanks KenOC. How do you find time to listen to all of them? Great collection!


These are from a voting game on another site.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me, the Fourth Symphony is unjustly underrated.

Listen to Gunter Wand's performance and tell me this isn't one terrific symphony!!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I agree with the 4th - just below 3 and 7 (with 5 and especially 6 my faves).


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Apologies for the necropost, but I wanted to bring back what I think might be an interesting discussion. I think the proof of what makes Beethoven a great composer lies not in the big warhorses but in the consistency he brought to every single piece he wrote. By that same token, I think his even numbered symphonies are vastly underrated and equal to if not better than their odd counterparts. Perhaps I am just played out on the big ones (3, 5, 7, 9) but I find a lot more enjoyment in the 2nd, 4th, and 8th these days. The 6th may well be his greatest symphony. 

Discuss intelligently. :lol:


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Number 8 for its optimism, wit and humor, but also because it’s the perfect setup for his monumental 9th that was the come. I also believe it was one of Beethoven’s favorite symphonies and he thought it much better than his more famous 7th. It’s just masterful and sparkles in the way that it reverts back to his earlier classicism. Quite unexpected, I think, that he did that after the Eroica and his other mind-boggling symphonies that changed music forever with their expanded form and content. It was Beethoven in a more cheerful, playful and lighthearted mood but with depth as well in the last movement. It’s fascinating to find out that he was going through a series of unpleasant events in his personal life when he wrote it and wrote it in only four months without dedicating it to anyone. Perhaps it was just what he needed to get himself through that trying period in his life with a joke or a laugh because it represented the opposite of what he was experiencing.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I think 1 is quite underrated. 2 is amazing and stands toe to toe with the best. 4 doesn't live in my memory, but every time I listen to it I think "hey, this is good!" 8 is rollicking good fun.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I think 1 is quite underrated. 2 is amazing and stands toe to toe with the best. 4 doesn't live in my memory, but every time I listen to it I think "hey, this is good!" 8 is rollicking good fun.


In 1809 Weber published a satire on the 4th Symphony, later summarized by Sir George Grove. Here's Grove's version:
--------------
It is supposed to be a dream, in which the instruments of the orchestra are heard uttering their complaints after the rehearsal of the new work. They are in serious conclave round the principal violins, grave personages whose early years have been spent under Pleyel and Gyrowetz. The double bass is speaking.

"I have just come from the rehearsal of a Symphony by one of our newest composers; and though, as you know, I have a tolerably strong constitution, I could only just hold out, and five minutes more would have shattered my frame and burst the sinews of my life. I have been made to caper about like a wild goat, and to turn myself into a mere fiddle to execute the no-ideas of Mr. Composer. I'd sooner be a dancing-master's kit at once, and earn my bread with Muller and Kauer"-the Strausses of the day.

The first violoncello (bathed in perspiration) says that for his part he is too tired to speak, and can recollect nothing like the warming he has had since he played in Cherubini's last opera. The second violoncello is of opinion that the Symphony is a musical monstrosity, revolting alike to the nature of the instruments and the expression of thought, and with no intention whatever but that of mere show-off.

After this the orchestra-attendant enters and threatens them with the Sinfonia Eroica if they are not quiet, and makes a speech in which he tells them that the time has gone by for clearness and force, spirit and fancy, "like those of Gluck, Handel, and Mozart," and that the following (evidently a caricature of the work before us) is the latest Vienna recipe for a Symphony: First a slow movement full of short disjointed unconnected ideas, at the rate of three or four notes per quarter of an hour; then a mysterious roll of the drum and passage of the violas, seasoned with the proper quantity of pauses and ritardandos; and to end all a furious finale, in which the only requisite is that there should be no ideas for the hearer to make out, but plenty of transitions from one key to another-on to the new note at once! never mind modulating!-above all things, throw rules to the winds, for they only hamper a genius.

"At this point," says Weber in his own person, "I woke in a dreadful fright, lest I was on the road to become either a great composer or-a lunatic."


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Larkenfield said:


> Number 8 for its optimism, wit and humor, but also because it's the perfect setup for his monumental 9th that was the come. I also believe it was one of Beethoven's favorite symphonies and he thought it much better that his more famous 7th. It's just masterful and sparkles in the way that it reverts back to his earlier classicism. Quite unexpected, I think, that he did that after the Eroica and his other mind-boggling symphonies that changed music forever with their expanded form and content. It was Beethoven in a more cheerful, playful and lighthearted mood but with depth as well in the last movement. It's superinfection to find out that he was going through a series of unpleasant events in his personal life when he wrote it and wrote it in only four months without dedicating it to anyone. Perhaps it was just what he needed to get through that trying period in his life because it represented the opposite of what he was experiencing.


Funny you should mention the _Eighth _. I just got home for a concert I performed with the McLean Symphony. One of the works on the program was the _Eighth_. I have had the opportunity to perform all of the symphonies from Five through Nine. They were all awesome experiences to perform.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> Funny you should mention the _Eighth _. I just got home for a concert I performed with the McLean Symphony. One of the works on the program was the _Eighth_. I have had the opportunity to perform all of the symphonies from Five through Nine. They were all awesome experiences to perform.


Are those bassoon octaves in the first movement and the last? Did you get to play them?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I vote for 1 and (especially) 2 as underrated but great symphonies.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Are those bassoon octaves in the first movement and the last? Did you get to play them?


Yes and yes.....


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

The 4th..................for me, it is just as enjoyable as any other.....and I love the woodwind parts.


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## 13hm13 (Oct 31, 2016)

On the radio yesterday, they (KUSC) played #2 with Rattle/BPO. The performance was rushed (typical Rattle??), but I still enjoyed it. Perhaps, I'll re-visit #2 with a recording where the conductor is more ... ahem ... talented.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

The 8th is brilliant. Its now my second fave after the 7th. I've think the 2nd is the weakest symphony (but I still love it). It used to be the 1st but Skrowaczewski and others make it sound amazing.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

13hm13 said:


> On the radio yesterday, they (KUSC) played #2 with Rattle/BPO. The performance was rushed (typical Rattle??), but I still enjoyed it. Perhaps, I'll re-visit #2 with a recording where the conductor is more ... ahem ... talented.


Try Bruno Walters with the CSO. He makes it sound as delightful and fresh as a daisy. Not rushed.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Larkenfield said:


> Try Bruno Walters with the CSO. He makes it sound as delightful and fresh as a daisy. Not rushed.


Totally agree with that!


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

The 8th is the most underrated IMO. It's one of my favorite Beethoven symphonies.


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