# Wanting to Branch Out



## Donovan (Sep 16, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I'm twenty years old and new to this forum. I have a deep love for classical music, but little real technical or historical knowledge of the subject. I was hoping some people might be able to recommend some of their favorite composers/compositions from when they were starting to really dive into classical, or resources on how to learn more about the subject in general. I'd really like to expand my horizons, so any and all suggestions are welcome.

My favorites as of now are Schoenberg, Bella Bartok, and Gyorgy Ligeti. Anything similar to these, or even diametrically opposed would be really appreciated!


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

If you like Schoenberg then you should also check out the other 2 main Second Viennese School composers, Berg and Webern. 
And if you like Bartok and Ligeti I think you'd also like Lutoslawski and Penderecki. You may want to try Schnittke as well.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Welcome, Donovan, to TC and greetings.

Hadn't gotten into those composers until after age 25/age 26, myself, so it's gratifying to learn you already love 20th century music @ your age.

Suggestions: Giacinto Scelsi, Richard Rodney Bennett, Maurice Ohana, Arne Nordheim, Toru Takemitsu, Roberto Gerhard, Luigi Dallapiccola, Humphrey Searle, Roger Sessions, Benjamin Frankel ... a hundred more, if you're interested.


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## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

Donovan said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm twenty years old and new to this forum. I have a deep love for classical music, but little real technical or historical knowledge of the subject. I was hoping some people might be able to recommend some of their favorite composers/compositions from when they were starting to really dive into classical, or resources on how to learn more about the subject in general. I'd really like to expand my horizons, so any and all suggestions are welcome.
> 
> My favorites as of now are Schoenberg, Bella Bartok, and Gyorgy Ligeti. Anything similar to these, or even diametrically opposed would be really appreciated!


I think this whole forum is a great resource. Just start exploring around the site.

As far as composers go, I see you like 20th century music. Perhaps you might like the thread on music composed between 1980-2000 that some of us are participating in. We go over a different piece each week, and right now, we're going over a piece by Wolfgang Rihm.

https://www.talkclassical.com/64884-1980-2000-listening-group-39.html#post1918565


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## Donovan (Sep 16, 2020)

After some more digging around I guess you're right. I appreciate the suggestion!


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## Donovan (Sep 16, 2020)

i've listened to a little Berg and Schnittke and enjoyed them, will spend some more time with both and check out the others you recommend! Thanks


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## Donovan (Sep 16, 2020)

I haven't heard of any of these besides having listened to, and enjoyed, a bit of Scelsi, so thank you very much for the many suggestions! I might take you up on the other hundred after I've gotten through these.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Boulez
Stockhausen
Xenakis


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Prokofiev. Try out his Symphony No. 6, and Piano Sonatas 6-8.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I, too, am encouraged to find a youthful fellow enthralled in the rather thorny genre of 20th century (Modern) music. There is much there to explore.

I came into classical music as a youngster after hearing Tchaikovsky's _Capriccio Italien_ played in a mandatory school Music Appreciation class. I was never the same afterwards, and so I'll recommend that piece. It's not "modern" per se, but so much new music is involved with orchestration (the utilization of instruments for their particular unique sounds alone and in combination with other instruments), and Tchaikovsky is the master orchestrator. He can allow you to reach forward as well as backward; he was a great fan of Mozart.

My earliest listening was to Romantic era music and I gradually branched off both forward and backwards, but it took time. I was not a fan of Bach during my teen years. Today I worship at the German master's shrine -- which is whatever music he wrote, especially the Cantatas, the Passions, and the Brandenburg Concerti. But so much more, too.

So don't get discouraged that maybe you don't like something along the way of exploring. You may eventually find you made an initial error, as I did with my initial avoidance of Bach and other Baroque masters.

I came into Modern music upon hearing Penderecki's _De Natura Sonoris_ (number one; there are two of these). My initial reaction was "What the heck is this stuff? They don't play this on the radio." And I was hooked. I continued exploring and have dug deeply into the composers of our Modern and Contemporary ages. I'm still surprised often by this new music, and I certainly don't like everything I hear, but the journey is an intriguing one.

Still, I remain anchored in traditional Warhorse music -- the great masters (Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, Mahler, Rachmaninoff, Stravinsky ... all those well-known names) have earned their reputations and deserve avid listening. They generally do not let you down.

So, I say, well after over a half century of listening to classical music: happy exploring. And welcome to the Forum.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I would check out symphony cycles of Prokofiev and Shostakovitch. The ones I've owned are Seiji Ozawa for the former and Michael Sanderling for the latter. Both have served me well.

Here are some videos.










Another 20th Century great to get into is Sibelius. Since you seem to like challenging repertoire, try his 4th or his 7th.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Another vote for Boulez. And Messiaen is a must! 

But is this just about relatively modern music? The greats from previous eras seem to me - perhaps only because it is how it all came to me - are the foundation and, as we all know, you need to build on a very solid foundation. Just being into the modern has always seemed to me to be a very limited approach. So, Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Sibelius, Mahler, Debussy, Stravinsky (and not just those early classics) ... and more (including those who came earlier). The OP is young and has a whole life to explore all this territory. There is no single route through it all and no way of planning it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Donovan said:


> My favorites as of now are Schoenberg, Bella Bartok, and Gyorgy Ligeti. Anything similar to these, or even diametrically opposed would be really appreciated!


Normally I can't answer this sort of question but it just so happens I came across a piece just yesterday and I said to myself that anyone interested in Bartok should hear it. It's by Wolfgang Rihm and is called Schrift um Schrift.






Another composer who was very much influenced by Bartok's structures in the 4th quartet is Franco Donatoni, for example this piece called Flag






I will think about Schoenberg -- though I think obviously there's a debt in Pierre Boulez's Le Marteau Sans Maitre


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

From Bartok: Try The Miraculous Mandarin.

Diametrically opposed: I recommend Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 and Tchaikovsky's violin concerto.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Messiaen was already mentioned, I think the Turangalia Symphony would be a great addition to the list of pieces in this thread. I saw the Baltimore SO a spectacular performance of it last year. 

Shostakovich is very accessible, especially if OP is already into modern composers. You can't really go wrong with his symphonies and concertos nor his chamber music (the Piano Quintet is a special favorite of mine and the 15 string quartets are all A++)

EDIT: Forgot to mention Berg. The Violin Concerto is one of the best pieces in the repertoire IMO. The way he seamlessly blends tonality and atonality in that piece is really amazing.


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Welcome to the forum! I personally branched out into composers I liked after being exposed to a wide variety of composers and pieces in the years I used to play in orchestras. I used to play the likes of Richard Strauss (Der Rosenkavalier), Dvorak (New World Symphony), Tchaikovsky (Capriccio Italien, Romeo and Juliet) and many others, so I naturally branched out into Romantic era music first and then into Baroque, Classical, and 20th Century music later on. I see that you have been listening to 20th Century composers so I would recommend the following:

*1) Prokofiev:* A lot of people mentioned him already, but I think that he has a pretty diverse catalog of music that you can explore (a lot that I haven't even listened to yet). I really like the Romeo and Juliet ballet suites, Lieutenant Kije, and Alexander Nevsky, but he has plenty else to offer.

*2) Shostakovich: *Played his Symphony No. 5 a couple times back in the day and I strongly recommend that piece. I think he is a very accessible choice and like Prokofiev, has a nice body of music to explore.

*3) Khachaturian:* He is my personal favorite 20th Century composer. I used to listen to Spartacus, Gayane, and the Masquerade Suite a ton. They are all a lot of fun to listen to ; however, I am not as familiar with the rest of his work. I think from the pieces I have heard he is a bit more traditional, but I could be wrong.

If you are looking to go in a different direction outside of 20th Century, Bach or Vivaldi are a great place to start for Baroque and Haydn or Mozart for Classical. For Romantic era music, you can go many different routes, but I can definitely recommend Tchaikovsky, Beethoven (if you want to count him as Romantic), and Mendelssohn .


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Per Nørgård
Kaija Saariaho


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

Wolfgang Rihm should definitely be on any list of this sort (I saw Schrift um Schrift upthread!). I think Ustvolskaya should be in there too, maybe the piano sonatas and the clarinet trio.


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