# Dvořák: Symphony #9 in E minor, op. 95 "From the New World" [1893]



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Dvořák's 9th symphony is currently on the fifth tier of the Talk Classical community's favorite and most highly recommended works.

As usual for a work of this stature, Wikipedia has a nice article about it, including some historical background (such as what might have influenced his composition) and a little analysis that amounts to a listening guide. The best source for recording recommendations is probably Trout's blog post on this work:



> Condensed Listing:
> 1.	Kubelík (cond.), Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra	(1972)
> 2.	Kertész (cond.), Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra	(1961)
> 3.	Reiner (cond.), Chicago Symphony Orchestra	(1957)
> ...


As usual, the main questions of this thread are: *Do you like this work? Do you love it? Why? What do you like about it? Do you have any reservations about it?*

And of course, what are your favorite recordings?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I love this work. I love listening to it, buying new recordings. I love playing it (but then I'm not a tuba player) and really love conducting it. Every time I encounter it, it just hits me: this is GREAT music. I never cease to learn from it. Just recently I bought the new "critical" edition and commentary from Barenreiter to gain more insight into it. My personal favorite recordings aren't in that list: Harnoncourt and Silvesti.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I own the Jiri Belohlavek/CPO cycle, and the 8th and 9th by Karajan/VPO in the 1980s. They are both wonderful. And of course this Karajan/BPO video is a classic:






My kids really enjoy watching this Dudamel performance, but probably not for musical reasons  :


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Great symphony...one of the first symphonies that I was drawn to, so many years ago....it's also fun to play...I've played this symphony more times than any other, with exception of Beethoven #5, and possibly, Schubert #8.

Dvorak makes great use of cyclical composition, ie - bringing back earlier themes in later movements...this is a salient feature of this fine work...
the above list does not include the two greatest recordings of "New World", IMO:
Toscanini/NBC
Reiner/CSO


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Talich is my favorite. Idiomatic, exciting, and great sound for 1954.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Everyone prefers Movement 4 for some reason. Not sure why.

Mov 2 - 



 *17:57 - 18:40* stunningly majestic
Mov 1 - 



 a novel intensity of theme-building
Mov 1 - 



 arguably the best part for me


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

To me, the grandeur, nostalgia and dynamic power of this symphony is most convincingly revealed by the performance of Istvan Kertesz with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

Has anybody here ever heard Immerseel's take on this symphony? I'm a big fan of HIP recordings of late 19th century stuff, but I've never heard this one. Is it worth ordering? The published reviews seem lukewarm but I'm curious anyways.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I've loved the "From the New World" Symphony from way back when it was still Dvorak's fifth symphony, as listed on what is still my favorite recording of the work, the George Szell/Cleveland 1959 recording, which I have on vinyl disc (and have since acquired on CD):









This particular symphony remains one of my maybe top five symphonies in all of classical music. It is one of those works that seems to create an entire new sound universe, which to my ears marks something particularly special. Hard to describe what I mean beyond saying that. But when I listen to this symphony, especially in Szell's recording, I feel I'm being transported to a new place.

I don't know how many versions I currently carry of this work on my disc shelves, but there are many. I can't say I'm displeased with any one of them. It's a great piece of music. I've had the pleasure to hear it performed by the Pittsburgh Symphony in concert at Heinz Hall a few years back, and I have the score to this one, and I often read through it as I listen to the music. A true favorite.

I remain a fan of all of Dvorak's symphonies and regularly listen to them, from number 1 on, but that Fifth … er, Ninth, is something really special.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I still enjoy it even though like everyone else I've heard it dozens of times over the years. I don't collect a lot of recordings but I have Solti/CSO, Szell/Cleveland, and a couple others. If I ever pick up another I'll probably get the Ancerl CD.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

There's plenty of recommendations in the two Dvorak 9 threads below.

Dvorak 9th
Dvorak symphony #9

Of course its an old warhorse but there are some great accounts. Preferences fluctuate between a number of great performances such as the fabulous Macal / LPO CfP disc, Ancerl ( very dark reading) , Harnoncourt, Kertesz, Kubelik, Mehta, Pappano, Anguelov, Kondrashin, Walter, Reiner and Mackerras (Prague) but Neumann's 9ths are self-recommending too. Szell and Bernstein (NYPO) are excellent too and Karajan did the New World well. I avoid Bernstein's Israel account like the plague (awful).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Ethereality said:


> Everyone prefers Movement 4 for some reason. Not sure why.


It's a very thrilling finale....the opening is one of the best...try Toscanini/NBC - they just totally nail it!!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> but that Fifth … er, Ninth, is something really special.


And in the composer's autograph score, it's number Eight!

I do not care for Szell for one maybe silly reason: he re-writes some of string parts, such as switching violas and 2nd violins. Most people would never notice, but that kind of retouching really is sore spot for me. Another issue in the New World is how the single cymbal stroke in the finale is played. Usually it's done wrong. Bernstein/NY gets it exactly right; one of the few.


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## rice (Mar 23, 2017)

I like the 8th much more than the 9th. I know the 9th is great but listening to the 8th is strangely satisfying.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

It's quite remarkable that a work such as this can be so over-played, and yet for me at least never sound stale! No.8 is my favourite of the Dvorak symphonies, but this one is hardly miles behind.

I have 20+ recordings, but five double takes from various conductors - Talich, Silvestri (meh!), Neumann, Fricsay and Belohlavek all twice. Of the four I especially admire, each time their later recording is preferable, Neumann debatably.

Too many of my recordings are excellent, and so it's impossible to go for an out and out winner, maybe Ancerl, Kondrashin, or Kubelik would get that honour?


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

'New World' is one of those pieces that I forget about for a long time, then listen to it and think "That's great in so many ways". And then shamefully neglect for another few months.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Pat Fairlea said:


> 'New World' is one of those pieces that I forget about for a long time, then listen to it and think "That's great in so many ways". And then shamefully neglect for another few months.


When I was just beginning my exploration of classical music, it was a favorite, and because the repertoire I listened to at that time was limited, it got a lot of playings - to the point that I grew tired of it. I put it aside for a decade or more, and now I can enjoy it again. I have the Kertesz cycle as well as recordings by Szell, Reiner, Kubelik and several others that I listen to less frequently.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

This is one of those pieces that I listened to over and over again until I got Dvořák'ed out in my youth. I seldom listen to it these days, but it is one of those pieces that are extrovert, heart-on-sleeve and unashamedly romantic (in a good way of course). Just brilliant.

Kondrashin has been my long-time favourite. Karajan's five recordings are all good. In recent years, I've enjoyed accounts from Bělohlávek and Järvi. Most recently, it was Claus Peter Flor who took me by surprise!

I feel intrigued by the prospect of Immerseel's HIP rendering... time to do some exploring surely.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

rice said:


> I like the 8th much more than the 9th. I know the 9th is great but listening to the 8th is strangely satisfying.





CnC Bartok said:


> No.8 is my favourite of the Dvorak symphonies....


..........Agreed :cheers::cheers:


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I enjoyed it in my 20s (I am nearly 70) and listened often to Ferenc Fricsay's recording. However, as is common with most orchestral masterpieces, I massively overplayed it and, today, have no interest in hearing it again. I haven't owned a recording in years and would never care to hear it in concert. I should also confess to not being much of a Dvorak fan.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

An early favourite of mine, back in the days when I started listening to classical music (1986). Karajan was the conductor on the DG CD I bought (c/w Smetana's Moldau). More than three decades it is still a favourite, definitely in my top 10 symphonies.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Two moments of genius: in the slow movement when the main theme is softly recapped with inexplicable pauses. Then when the final chord at the close of the work blazes briefly but quickly dims to_ piano_.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

This has always been and still remains my favorite recording of both the 8th and 9th:

https://www.amazon.com/Dvořák-Symphony-No-8-9/dp/B000BR6FIS/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Dvorak+Mackerras&qid=1576904393&sr=8-3


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Pat Fairlea said:


> 'New World' is one of those pieces that I forget about for a long time, then listen to it and think "That's great in so many ways". And then shamefully neglect for another few months.


My thoughts exactly......so went straight to the Kertesz LSO recording yesterday...….


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

If you've never heard this version, try to! From an unexpected source, to be sure, but it validates what a lot of people knew: there was a lot more to the late Fiedler than pops music, and it was to Boston's shame that they only rarely gave him the opportunity to prove it.


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

As others have said, this is a super fun piece to perform. I've had the pleasure a couple of times, in both first and second violins. As one of the warhorses of the symphonic repertoire, it is a piece that is easy to dismiss, especially as "program music". But when performed well, it grips with intensity and won't let you go.

One such performance I saw in Toronto some years ago. The conductor was none other than Itzhak Perlman. He performed a couple of Mozart violin concertos or serenades, I forget which. There was the obvious hint of genius there, but unfortunately Herr Perlman is a little past his prime now and these performances were largely forgettable. The Dvorak however proved him to be a formidable director. It was one of the most rousing interpretations of this work I've ever heard, and I remember it fondly to this day.

My recordings: Harnoncourt, Reiner, Kertesz, Bernstein, Kubelik, Fricsay, Munch. I'm not sure I could say which is a favourite. Let me go listen to them all again and I'll come back to you with a verdict in a few days!


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

Ethereality said:


> Everyone prefers Movement 4 for some reason. Not sure why.


John Williams has been accused of plagiarizing the beginning for the "Jaws" theme.

If I'm partial to the Fricsay recording, it's because I remember myself as a twelve-year old lying on my stomach holding a cheap AM pocket radio up to an electrical wall socket (using it for an antenna), trying to listen to the broadcast of it from somewhere off in distant Iowa.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I've loved this work since I first started listening to classical. (My first recording was a Vanguard record labelled Symphony No. 5!) I must have nearly two dozen recordings and love Talich, Fricsay and Kertesz amongst others. One recording I seldom seen mentioned is Kurt Masur and the New York Phil which gets everything just right to my ears. Worth a listen if you've never heard it.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

*Do you like this work? Do you love it?*
Yes, I love it. It's my favorite Dvorak symphony at the moment.

*Why? What do you like about it?*
Because I think that it's a strong, exciting and beautiful work, and this in it's totality, without any less than great movement.

*Do you have any reservations about it?*
It's of course a great work, but I nevertheless feel that it's a bit overrated in the games/lists here at TC, at least when compared to other symphonies I believe to be more profound, such as Tchaikovsky's 6th or Mahler's 9th.

*And of course, what are your favorite recordings?*
I have three recordings of this symphony: Kubelik/BPO, Neumann/CPO and Karajan/WPO. The latter is the one that makes me happier.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I used to like it more than I do now, perhaps a case of familiarity breeds boredom (ok, a bit overstated!)

As to recordings, there are two really good ones both with the Philharmonia - Giulini and Klemperer. And before anyone chimes in with any typical Klemperian comments, while K's is a few minutes longer than Giuilini, it's not because of tempi, rather K includes the 1st movement exposition repeat which Giulini and many others ignore.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Here's a thread about recordings of this symphony.


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

MrMeatScience said:


> Has anybody here ever heard Immerseel's take on this symphony? I'm a big fan of HIP recordings of late 19th century stuff, but I've never heard this one. Is it worth ordering? The published reviews seem lukewarm but I'm curious anyways.


For HIP fans (which includes me) I recommend Musica Florea and Marek Štryncl


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## SARDiver (Jan 6, 2014)

MatthewWeflen said:


> I own the Jiri Belohlavek/CPO cycle, and the 8th and 9th by Karajan/VPO in the 1980s. They are both wonderful. And of course this Karajan/BPO video is a classic:


I just purchased the Karajan recording. To be honest, I hadn't even heard this symphony until three days ago. (Yeah, I know. In my defense, there's a lot of music out there to discover.)

The 2nd movement is absolutely wonderful, and I find I actually prefer it to the 4th.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

SARDiver said:


> I just purchased the Karajan recording. To be honest, I hadn't even heard this symphony until three days ago. (Yeah, I know. In my defense, there's a lot of music out there to discover.)
> 
> The 2nd movement is absolutely wonderful, and I find I actually prefer it to the 4th.


I just listened to this recording last night. It's truly exceptional both in sound quality and interpretation.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I just listened to Dorati/RCO and it was a really fresh, exciting but also apocalyptic recording. I have never heard a better third movement, that said I still need to listen to a lot of good recordings but I’ve covered all the classics at least. A fine addition next to Kubelik/BPO. Also the Dvorak cello concerto paired on the same disc with Heinrich Schiff and sir Colin Davis with the same orchestra is also fabulous.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Xisten267 said:


> *Do you have any reservations about it?*
> It's of course a great work, but I nevertheless feel that it's a bit overrated in the games/lists here at TC, at least when compared to other symphonies I believe to be more profound, such as Tchaikovsky's 6th or Mahler's 9th.


While I put Dvorak's symphonies like the 9th, over Tchaikovsky's, I have always thought _The New World_ was a little overrated ever since first hearing (unrelated to the fact that I've grown equally fond of his 7th.) This can be argued because the 9th never reaches the perfection of any of Beethoven's core symphonies, which I find easy to comprehend as Dvorak is essentially Beethoven without all the rich extra details, bolder and clever but in a general form that doesn't lend itself to every tight twist, color, counter-rhythm, and overall payoff or sacrifice. However the 9th is a clear masterpiece of innovative proportions, Dvorak especially seemed to take great influence from Beethoven's Pastoral, where his 7th is where I feel he met Beethoven in the closest, most general way. I rank Dvorak however melodically superior to Beethoven, which is a huge accomplishment as not many are that gifted, not even Tchaikovsky or Mozart imo, and it's within the 9th that we hear many of his funnest melodies interact, in the first movement, and the astounding development of what sounds like two separate movements, in Largo.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

it's likely the only massively popular work which would make it into my top few dozen -- one of the main problems is competition from other great Dvorak symphonies. The finale is absolutely hair-raising when done properly -- few other Dvorak movements are quite so involving. The first movement is somewhat less interesting. Unlike some other favourites (including Dvorak's 7th), the work isn't short of decent recordings though I see Talich mentioned earlier -- his 7th and 8th are sensational so I must give the 9th a try. In general I prefer Czech conductors in this composer, though Kertesz is outstanding in the early symphonies in particular


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