# Preferred Schumann Piano Quintet recording



## Caryatid

Which recording(s) of Schumann's Piano Quintet Op. 44 would you recommend? I'm looking for recommendations.


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## Bulldog

If you're interested in period instrument performances, I heartily recommend an Amon Ra disc featuring Richard Burnett on fortepiano with the Fitzwilliam String Quartet. Also on the disc is Schumann's Piano Quartet and Violin Sonata no. 1. There's a period instrument account on the Chandos label, but that's for folks who don't like period instruments.


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## wkasimer

Caryatid said:


> Which recording(s) of Schumann's Piano Quintet Op. 44 would you recommend? I'm looking for recommendations.


This one has always been my favorite:


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## Caryatid

wkasimer said:


> This one has always been my favorite:
> 
> View attachment 137857


I like this recording too. They take the first movement at quite a tempo!


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## flamencosketches

I like the Jandó/Kodály Quartet recording on Naxos, but admittedly have not heard many. I have a 2CD coming to me which features the Beaux Arts Trio + 2 doing the Schumann Piano Quintet, and will write back with my thoughts when I get around to listening to it.


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## Caryatid

I have been listening to an excellent old recording with Arthur Rubinstein and the Paganini Quartet.


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## Animal the Drummer

I have a World Record Club LP with none other than Artur Schnabel and the Pro Arte Quartet which I still go back to from time to time, as it helped me get into a piece I hadn't really appreciated before. The Gulda/Hagen Quartet recording cited above is also a winner.


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## Rangstrom

I'm quite fond of the Curzon/Budapest, especially coupled w/ the Brahms on Naxos Historical.


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## wkasimer

Rangstrom said:


> I'm quite fond of the Curzon/Budapest, especially coupled w/ the Brahms on Naxos Historical.


I agree - this is a great disc, if you don't mind monaural sound. And to be clear, the coupled Brahms is a quartet (#2), not the quintet.


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## Enthusiast

Melnikov with the Jerusalem Quartet is a (HIP) treasure. Also, I second the Curzon/Budapest recording (mine is coupled with the 1st Mozart piano quartet played by Arrau). The first one I got was the Pires/Wang/Causse/Capuçon/Dumay recording and I've always found it hard to beat.


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## Josquin13

If you're open to doing some sampling and making comparisons, here's a list of the best performances that I've heard over the decades, listed by category (digital, analogue, period, historical). Your choice may also come down to which of the various couplings you want to own, and/or the sound quality:

My top digital era picks on modern instruments & piano are as follows, & I've tried to list them roughly in some order of preference (though don't take my rankings too seriously, as listeners seldom agree on such things--which is why I usually list a fair number of recommended recordings in my posts):

1. Maria João Pires (piano), Augustin Dumay (violin), Renaud Capuçon (violin), Gérard Caussé (viola), Jian Wang (cello) (coupled with the Schumann Piano Concerto), DG--this is one of the most musically insightful performances on record, in my opinion, and my first choice among digital era recordings (though I initially had Quatour Schumann & Gyula Stuller as my #1 pick & then changed my mind, so it's a close call). I've long felt that Pires was an underrated Schumann pianist, and she shows how deeply attuned she is to Schumann's sound world in this performance, as do her fellow musicians. (It was Pires' remarkable playing that ultimately made me decide to choose them over Quatour Schumann.) The group is also well recorded:

1: 



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3: 



4: 




2. Quatour Schumann, with pianist Gyula Stuller, AEON--I likewise find this performance to be very satisfying musically, and Quatour Schumann brings out a sense of intimacy & tenderness in the second movement that other groups sometimes miss. After all, the Piano Quintet was a wedding gift to the Schumann's wife, Clara--so there is love, joy, happiness, exhuberance, intimacy, & tenderness for his new bride expressed in the music (as well as a sense of fragility and perhaps a hint of foreboding at times, interestingly enough):





https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Piano-Quartet-Op-Quintet/dp/B001YAFMMQ

3. Engegård Quartet, Nils Anders Mortensen--The Engegård Quartet & pianist Nils Anders Mortensen play very brilliantly, but the musical accents are occasionally more strongly stressed than is normal, & the Engegård's at times slightly more aggressive attack may not be for all tastes (while for others it wouldn't surprise me if they were a #1 choice). I also think that the Engegård Quartet miss a bit of the intimacy and tenderness that Quatour Schumann, Pires & co., the Hagens find in the second movement, which is the main reason why I placed them at #3 on my digital list. Even so, they bring out other fascinating things in the score, and it's a very engaging performance, and maybe I should have ranked them higher:






4. Hagen Quartet, Paul Gulda, DG--I like this performance a lot, but not all of it, as I don't care for how rushed the Hagens play the very opening of the 1st movement, nor how they slow down considerably after that and then speed up again, repeatedly. These exagerrated tempo shifts tend to distract me from the music, & the movement ends up sounding a bit contrived or overly manipulated to my ears. Granted, their performance has its admirers, and I fully agree that the Hagens are exceptional in the rest of the quintet: such as in the 2nd movement, where they get the intimacy & tenderness expressed very beautifully, & the lively Scherzo & their brilliant 4th movement. I just wish that I had liked their interpretation of the first movement better, as they'd have been my top choice overall if I had:


















5. Takacs Quartet, Marc-Andre Hamelin, Hyperion--this is another very fine performance, but unfortunately, it's not on You Tube (perhaps Spotify?): https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67631
https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Str...no+quintet+aeon&qid=1592105936&s=music&sr=1-1

6. Sviatoslav Richter, Borodin Quartet, Teldec, Elatus, digital--this is the most late romantic performance on my list, interpretatively, which is due to the stronger sentiment of the Borodin string players rather than to Richter, who was one of the great Schumann pianists. I'd recommend it for Richter fans, and for those that like to hear the piano quintet more romanticized in the string playing (though the Borodins can be a tad sloppy or loose here & there, which some listeners will mind more than others). (However, Richter's earlier 1958 mono version of the Brahms Quintet with the earlier Borodin Quartet is in a stronger performance: 



 ,as is their Shostakovich Piano Quintet together on EMI:

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4: 




EDIT: I forgot about the Melnikov/Jersusalem Quartet recording, but it's very good, too, I agree.

My top analogue era picks:

1. Arthur Rubinstein, Guarneri Quartet, RCA Red Seal, 1966--I'm not always a fan of the Guarneri Quartet, who can strike me as overly slick & superficial in their phrasing, but they play very well here, and Schumann was one of Rubinstein's best composers, in my view. In other words, the musicians seem to have brought out the best in each other. On CD, the Schumann quintet comes coupled with Brahms' Piano Quintet, or in Vol. 66 of the Rubinstein RCA edition, the Dvorak Piano Quartet, Op. 87. The sound is surprisingly good for the age of the recording--at least in Vol. 66 of the RCA edition, which is the CD that I own:

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3: 



4: 




https://www.amazon.com/Rubinstein-Collection-Vol-66-Schumann/dp/B00005427N

2. Beaux Arts Trio, Philips, 1975--this is another very fine version that has stood the test of time, but the sound is a a bit older & thinner on CD when compared to the best digital versions. So, I'd recommend it as a first choice only if you're a big fan of the Beaux Arts Trio, or if you want to get the other contents included in their Philips duo '2 for 1' discount issue--which are the Beaux Art Trio's recordings of Schumann's Complete Piano Trios & Piano Quartet Op. 47 (see link below). For the budget minded, it's a good deal for the amount of music that you get; however, as noted, all the performances are ADD--this isn't the Beaux Arts Trio's later digital survey of Schumann's Piano Trios with cellist Peter Wiley, but instead their earlier analogue accounts with cellist Bernard Greenhouse (whose playing I prefer to Wiley's):





https://www.amazon.com/Schumann-Com...8FK6S65D9JV&psc=1&refRID=XNM8ZMSHK8FK6S65D9JV

My top period instrument picks,

1. Richard Burnett, Fitzwilliam String Quartet, Amon Ra (who Bulldog also mentions favorably): 




2. La Gaia Scienza (period instruments), Winter & Winter: 




3. Michelangelo Piano Quartet (period instruments), Chandos--I actually slightly prefer the Michelangelo Piano Quartet to La Gaia Scienza here, but no one seems to agree with me, and the latter get the better reviews, so I'm going to go with the general consensus rather than my own opinion, for a change: 




My historical picks:

1. Ossip Gabrilowitsch, The Flonzaley Quartet, recorded in 1925--Granted, the old sound is poor, but this is considered one of the great performances of Schumann's Piano Quintet on record, and anyone with an interest in this music should definitely try to hear it, especially when you can listen to it for free on You Tube: 




2. Rudolf Serkin, Busch Quartet, 1942:


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## Enthusiast

^ Very good survey. You actually forgot the Melnikov twice as it should also have been in the HIP category.


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## Rangstrom

wkasimer said:


> I agree - this is a great disc, if you don't mind monaural sound. And to be clear, the coupled Brahms is a quartet (#2), not the quintet.


Mea culpa. A good reminder to check rather than rely on memory. Naxos 8.110306 has the Schumann with the Brahms Piano Quartet #2. Naxos 8.110307 features the Brahms Piano Quintet coupled with the Dvorak Piano Quintet--performed by Curzon/Budapest.

Sound on the discs are up to Naxos Historical's high standard, but as noted are monaural.


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## Bulldog

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Very good survey. You actually forgot the Melnikov twice as it should also have been in the HIP category.


He didn't offer a HIP category, and the Melnikov/Jerusalem performance is not on period instruments.


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## Josquin13

Yes--while the Jerusalem offers a fair amount of vibrato less playing in the performance (which can be interesting), they don't play on period strings. It's a full string sound. However, it does sound like Melnikov is playing on an earlier piano, since his piano has a slightly thinner sound with less resonance than a modern grand. So, I expect it's a period piano, but I don't have access to the recording at the moment. Nor does Melnikov's piano always match up well to the Jersusalem Quartet's more full bodied string sound, when they play with greater amplitude and vibrato, as the strings tend to dominate his piano and make it sound a tad recessed. So the balances aren't especially HIP, except when the Jersusalem players don't use vibrato.


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## Neo Romanza

Enthusiast said:


> Melnikov with the Jerusalem Quartet is a (HIP) treasure.
> 
> View attachment 137951


The Jerusalem Quartet aren't a HIP quartet, though.


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## Bulldog

Neo Romanza said:


> The Jerusalem Quartet aren't a HIP quartet, though.


It looks like we have arrived at the heart of the matter. When Harnoncourt and Leonhardt were blazing a new approach, HIP and period instruments were synonymous. Then conductors like Charles Mackerras started employing standard elements of the HIP movement: faster tempos, less or no vibrato, greater prominence of brass/winds, etc. The thinking was that you could be HIP and modern at the same time.

The way it works now is that a modern-instrument ensemble/orchestra can be considered HIP. This does bring up the question of how HIP must you be in order to call yourself HIP. Personally, I don't consider any performance to be HIP unless period instruments are used, and my position is that the folks who have been promoting "modern-instrument HIP" just don't like the sound of period instruments.


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## Neo Romanza

Bulldog said:


> It looks like we have arrived at the heart of the matter. When Harnoncourt and Leonhardt were blazing a new approach, HIP and period instruments were synonymous. Then conductors like Charles Mackerras started employing standard elements of the HIP movement: faster tempos, less or no vibrato, greater prominence of brass/winds, etc. The thinking was that you could be HIP and modern at the same time.
> 
> The way it works now is that a modern-instrument ensemble/orchestra can be considered HIP. This does bring up the question of how HIP must you be in order to call yourself HIP. Personally, I don't consider any performance to be HIP unless period instruments are used, and my position is that the folks who have been promoting "modern-instrument HIP" just don't like the sound of period instruments.


A HIP performance uses period instruments otherwise they shouldn't call it a HIP performance but a MIP one.  Anyway, there's nothing HIP about Jerusalem Quartet's Schumann.


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## flamencosketches

Neo Romanza said:


> A HIP performance uses period instruments otherwise they shouldn't call it a HIP performance but a MIP one.  Anyway, there's nothing HIP about Jerusalem Quartet's Schumann.


HIP and period instruments are not necessarily synonymous. HIP (historically informed performance) refers more to the techniques and performance practice than the instruments themselves. You can have one without the other, or both, or vice versa. I think that was Bulldog's point.


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## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> HIP and period instruments are not necessarily synonymous. HIP (historically informed performance) refers more to the techniques and performance practice than the instruments themselves. You can have one without the other, or both, or vice versa. I think that was Bulldog's point.


Generally agree. To my mind HIP means just what it says, historically informed. If you don't abide modern instruments, then you are looking for PI (period instruments). Ironically Harnoncourt himself was one of the early proponents of HIP on modern instruments, having recorded Mozart Symphonies with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra starting in the early 1980's. There results were revelatory, IMO. Some of my favorite audio recordings.

Practically speaking, PI works great in recordings but in a modern concert hall I would imagine a PI ensemble can be underpowered.


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## wkasimer

Post deleted....


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## Guest

Now you’ve left us to guess what outrage you typed then deleted!


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## wkasimer

Baron Scarpia said:


> Now you've left us to guess what outrage you typed then deleted!


No outrage - just redundancy.


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## Josquin13

There are many performances today that are HIP on modern instruments. The period revival has had a profound effect on how early music is played on modern instruments. Even Reinhard Goebel is now performing Baroque music on modern instruments in a period style, and believes in what he's doing! The problem is that modern instruments can't always do what the composer wrote and would have expected to hear. For example, modern violin bows & strings simply can't play violin 'graces' or slurs as Baroque composers wrote them. Instead they play them in modern conservatory style, and that isn't at all the same thing. As a result, the modern violins change the whole complexion and content and meaning of the music, as the composer intended it. So there's a big problem if listeners expect to hear a modern violin section play Baroque violin graces as the composer wrote them into the score. 

For that reason and quite a few others, I don't normally find HIP performances on modern strings & bows to be very successful (& sometimes they're downright weird sounding), but I will admit that occasionally they can interesting. & I agree that Harnoncourt is a good example of someone who was able to cross the bridge successfully at times, at least in orchestral music. 

Granted, the Jerusalem Quartet doesn't normally do so, but they have definitely applied HIP practices and ideas to these Schumann performances, in that they have distinctly chosen not to use any or very little vibrato in places. & the effect is HIP, and clearly, intentionally so. Plus, as I wrote in my previous post, it sounds like Alexander Melnikov is using a period piano, & if so, then the Jerusalem Quartet really had little choice but to attempt to be HIP in their interpretations; otherwise, the balances between the strings & piano would have been way off (& I think they actually are in some places anyway). Does anyone own this recording, and could you please verify for me what type of period piano Melnikov is playing? because elsewhere, on his other recordings, Melnikov has been known to play Schumann on Grafs and Streichers, and that is what it sounds like he's doing here (or perhaps he's trying to make a modern grand sound like period piano, and has totally fooled me...).

Which brings up yet another category of period performances that needs to be acknowledged, and that is HIP performances that mix modern and period instruments, strings, bows, and fortepianos, etc., together. As noted, I believe that's what's happening here. Another example of this mixed practice approach would be Cuarteto Casals, who play Haydn and Mozart String Quartets using period bows but on modern strings. However, in the Cuarteto Casals SQ performances the whole ensemble is unified in their approach, so it works (and brilliantly so). Here, I don't think the balances between the period piano and the modern strings always sound right or work. While the Burnett/Fitzwilliam Quartet actual period performance is better and a lot more authentic in that regard.


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## PeterF

My favorite, at the moment, is by Rudolf Serkin with the Budapest Quartet.

Other versions I enjoy are:
Jando / Kodaly
Argerich / Lugano Festival 2002
Koroliov / Prazak. (SACD)
Rubinsrein/ Guarneri


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## Enthusiast

Neo Romanza said:


> The Jerusalem Quartet aren't a HIP quartet, though.


You're right! Mea culpa. No complicated explanation needed - I just had it mixed up with another Melnikov disc. It is excellent, though!

I generally aim to only use the acronym HIP where the instruments are of the same age as the music and where the players believe themselves to be playing the music as it would have been played in its day. Certainly, the field has become quite muddy, though.


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## starthrower

> 1. Maria João Pires (piano), Augustin Dumay (violin), Renaud Capuçon (violin), Gérard Caussé (viola), Jian Wang (cello) (coupled with the Schumann Piano Concerto), DG--this is one of the most musically insightful performances on record, in my opinion, and my first choice among digital era recordings (though I initially had Quatour Schumann & Gyula Stuller as my #1 pick & then changed my mind, so it's a close call). I've long felt that Pires was an underrated Schumann pianist, and she shows how deeply attuned she is to Schumann's sound world in this performance, as do her fellow musicians. (It was Pires' remarkable playing that ultimately made me decide to choose them over Quatour Schumann.) The group is also well recorded.


Thanks, Josquin! Your posts are always an encyclopedia of information and suggestions. I'll be starting with the Pires as I have ordered her DG chamber music box. There's a cheap Brilliant 3 CD set of the quartets and piano trios that is sounding great through my headphones. Nine dollars at Presto. I hope the Pires CD sounds better than the YT upload which is rather thin and harsh. Sounds about the same at Spotify. But this is my experience with DG. Inconsistency with recording quality. They can go from silk to sandpaper in the strings dept.


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