# Jazz Anyone?



## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm a big fan of jazz music, I've noticed that there are many like me here who appreciate jazz. So, let's talk about our favorite jazz music and artists here. 

I mostly like modern jazz. My favorite artists are Kurt Rosenwinkel and Wes Montgomery. I aslo like artists like John Coltrane and Anthony Braxton.

What are yours? Discuss.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I'm into oldschool jazz only, especially bebop. Coltrane, Parker, Mingus etc - these are "My favourite things". Also some various stuff like Jimmy Smith, Bill Evans, Keith Jarett, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, couple of records by Miles Davis. I listened to fusion, but mostly I could not stand sound of this music. Stanley Clarke, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Weather Report and Keef Hartley Band are few that I enjoy. Can't understand why Chick Corea plays electric piano, making fine compositions by Return To Forever sound so awful.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Jazz musicians I enjoy:

Thelonious Monk, Ben Webster, Bill Evans, Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Miles Davis, Bill Frisell, Tomasz Stanko, Dizzy Gillespie, Tomasz Stanko, Sonny Clark, Enrico Rava, Paul Desmond, Duke Ellington, Paul Motian, John Coltrane, Coleman Hawkins, Zoot Sims, Clark Terry, McCoy Tyner, Bobby Hutcherson, Herbie Hancock, Sonny Rolllins, Dave Holland, Max Roach, Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Nicholas Payton, Art Blakey, Cannonball Adderley, Modern Jazz Quartet, Dave Brubeck, Art Pepper, Blue Mitchell, Stefon Harris, Ron Carter, Benny Carter, Joe Locke, Paolo Fresu, Hampton Hawes, Ed Bickert, Rob McConnell, David "Fathead" Newman, Bud Powell, Eliane Elias, John Abercrombie, Chet Baker, Gigi Gryce, Nguyen Le, Horace Silver, Marian McPartland, Tommy Flanagan, Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Michel Petrucciani, Maria Schneider, Bob Brookmeyer, Harold Land, Wes Montgomery, Shirley Horn, Diana Krall, Cassandra Wilson, Fred Hersch, Steve Nelson, Woody Herman, Jim Hall, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, Jan Garbarek, Pat Metheny, Shelly Manne, Kenny Dorham, Jimmy Heath, Johnny Griffin, Stan Kenton, Amina Figarova, Charles Lloyd, Frank Wess, John Hicks, Woody Shaw, Kenny Wheeler, Renee Rosnes, this list could go on forever...


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Classic and golden age jazz mainly. Ella Fitzgerald,Billie Holliday,Ellington and the jazz from the 30's and 40's. Also Coltrane.

Jim


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## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

Wow jtech, you have an awesome taste in jazz.
Who is your favorite at the moment?


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

sam richards said:


> Wow, you have an awesome taste in jazz.


Who are you talking to Sam?


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## ecg_fa (Nov 10, 2008)

I love jazz-- 'old' & 'new,' if old style big band maybe less so. Among my faves (forgetting
many I know)-- no order: Kenny Wheeler, John coltrane, Ralph Towner (Oregon in general
too), Steve kuhn, Billy Strayhorn-Duke Ellington, Maria Schneider, Bob Brookmeyer, Rich Perry, Matthew Shipp, John Taylo, Marilyn Crispell, Miles Davis, GAry Burton, Enrico Pieranunzi, Martial Solal, Theolonius Monk, Steve Lacy, Jane Ira Bloom, Tim Garland, Benny Goodman, Clifford Brown, Booker Little, Eric Dolphy, Andrew Hill, Artie Shaw, Trio 3, Fats Waller, Art Lande, John Surman, Evan Parker, Gutbucket (group), & many others .

And that doesn't even get into jazz vocalists many of whom I love-- just a few: Ella
Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn, Norma Winstone, Meredith d'Ambrosio, Deborah Brown, Irene Kral, Helen Merrill, Karin Krog, Rebecca Kilgore, Maria Joao, Mel Torme, Theo Bleckmann,
& others.

Ed


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

sam richards said:


> Wow jtech, you have an awesome taste in jazz.
> Who is your favorite at the moment?


Okay I see you're talking to me now.  Thanks for the comments.

Do I have a favorite at this point in time? Oh man that's a tough question. I actually haven't listened to jazz for about 4 months, because I've been swept away by classical, but my main jazz influences will always be Thelonious Monk, Bill Frisell, Miles Davis, and Bill Evans, but of course, I have so many favorites it's hard to give you a definite answer.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Other than stuff people have mentioned, I can recommend three jazz-fusion guitarists:

Allan Holdsworth

Shawn Lane

Guthrie Govan.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I have a great respect for Jtech's taste in Jazz. Similar to mine, but I might include a few more fusion artists.

My new love: Sidney Bechet


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> I have a great respect for Jtech's taste in Jazz. Similar to mine, but I might include a few more fusion artists.


Well thanks Bach, in time I will learn to love more different styles of classical music. I just think I'm still "learning the ropes" so to speak. Jazz, on the other hand, is something I've listened to all my life, so naturally I have more experience with it.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

At least you've whittled down to the only two genres worth your time.. 
How's purchasing the Bartok quartets going?  

Anyone else enjoy the playing of Sidney Bechet?


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

1920s jazz & hot dance bands.
The Original Indiana Five. The Dixie Daisies. The Original Memphis Five. The Cotton Pickers. The Wolverine Orchestra. The Georgians. The Georgia Melodians. Sonny Clay's Plantation Orchestra. The Tennessee Tooters. Charley Straight's Orchestra. Ladd's Black Aces. Jimmie Joy's bands. The Arcadian Serenaders. The New Orleans Rhythm Kings. The California Ramblers, and their many spin-offs. The Halfway House Orchestra. The King Oliver bands: the Creole Jazz Band, the Dixie Syncopators, and his Orchestra. The Hot Fives and Sevens. Scores of others from that decade.
More recent: Ken Colyer. Current: The Savannah Jazz Band.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

I'm sure some of the more conservative jazz fans will dismiss this, but it's a wonderful Indian-Jazz-Fusion mixture in what looks like the coolest club ever. It is at once funky and mystical, I can't recommend it enough (and wait for what he does at 4:50, it's out of this world):






Here Shawn Lane is with actual Indian musicians, improvising in a raga-like way. It's beautiful:


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## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

^^ I like what I hear. I love shawn lane, he was the first instrumental rock guitarist that I liked.

By the way, I'm currently in love with kurt rosenwinkel's Deep Song album. I just can't get enough of the song "Synthetics".


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> At least you've whittled down to the only two genres worth your time..
> How's purchasing the Bartok quartets going?


 You know I haven't got around to getting them yet. I'm trying to fill some gaps in my orchestral collection, then I will move on to string quartets, oratorios, choral, etc.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

sam richards said:


> ^^ I like what I hear. I love shawn lane, he was the first instrumental rock guitarist that I liked.
> 
> By the way, I'm currently in love with kurt rosenwinkel's Deep Song album. I just can't get enough of the song "Synthetics".


Kurt Rosenwinkel is great. I particularly like the tune "Brooklyn Sometimes" from "Deep Song" and I also like "Minor Blues" from "The Next Step." I own all of his albums, but I haven't really listened to him all that much. I'm much more into Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Ralph Towner, Ben Monder, and Egberto Gismonti. What I never understood is why can't Ben Monder get on with ECM Records? He has that ECM impressionistic type of guitar style like Frisell and Abercrombie.


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## Vegg (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm a big fan of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Weather Report, as well as a bit of Miles Davis.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Vegg said:


> I'm a big fan of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Weather Report, as well as a bit of Miles Davis.


I'm not big into fusion, but I have many recordings of John McLaughlin. He's an amazing player no question about it. He's actually quite a good classical guitarist too.


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

I like ECM's Jazz much more than the "traditional" type of Jazz. I don't listen to it very often though. I also like Bebop, but again, I rarely listen to it.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

nickgray said:


> I like ECM's Jazz much more than the "traditional" type of Jazz. I don't listen to it very often though. I also like Bebop, but again, I rarely listen to it.


Yeah I like that impressionistic jazz music. I've collected a good many ECM recordings through the years.

But I always return to bebop or big band if I'm listening to jazz. I'm really into the pianists like Bill Evans, Elmo Hope, Barry Harris, Tommy Flanagan, Oscar Peterson, and of course Thelonious Monk, who I consider one of the most brilliant and individual of all jazz composers and pianists.

I mean Monk is so individualistic all it takes is 3 notes to know it's him playing. His compositions are so intricate. He also uses some unorthodox chord voicings. He's a very hard player to emulate.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

In the early 2000's, Gitanes/Universal reissued classic recordings in their *Jazz in Paris *collection, of great performances in that city. I bought about half of the 100 issued.

There are great recordings made from the 30s to the 70s & include many of the seasoned American performers who either visited or lived in the city eg. Armstrong, Gillespie, Byas, Rhoda Scott, Kenny Clarke (my favourite drummer), Donald Byrd, Art Blakey, Miles Davis, Bill Coleman, Ronnell Bright, Sarah Vaughan, Johnny Griffin (fav saxophonist), Sonny Criss, June Richmond, Andy Bey. There are also the French musicians & expats from other European countries like Andre Hodeir, Eddie Louiss, Barney Wilen, Django Reinhardt, Elek Bacsik, Georges Arvanitas, Raymond Fol, Jack Dieval, Roger Guerin, Rene Urtreger, Martial Solal, and many others.

It's a great collection, and makes up the bulk of what I own in jazz.


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## shsherm (Jan 24, 2008)

If you review previous posts in this thread, you will find several concerning jazz. I know because I have written some of them myself. I started enjoying jazz when I was in high school in the late 50's. 
I often listened to a radio show in Chicago called "Waxing Hot" hosted by a man named Dick Buckley. More recently a radio show is on NPR in the US called "Piano Jazz" with Marian Mc Partland. She is a jazz pianist and was married to a musician named Jimmy Mc Partland. Another show on NPR is called "Live From The Landing" and comes from a nightclub in San Antonio Texas where they play mostly Dixieland. If you ever go to New Orleans be sure to go to Preservation Hall where they play traditional Dixieland Jazz. The band sometimes goes on tour as well.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Mm, Jtech - when improvising on the piano the result often sounds rather Evansesque. I'm a big admirer of his harmonic technique.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Mid-seventies Miles Davis. One of the funkiest things you're ever likely to hear, by one of the coolest men ever to walk the planet:


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Mm, Jtech - when improvising on the piano the result often sounds rather Evansesque. I'm a big admirer of his harmonic technique.


Evans was a wonderful player. He was a big admirer of Debussy and Ravel too, so it's only natural that he incorporated some of those impressionistic, airy type of voicings in his improvisations.

When I'm improvising or accompanying someone, I like a rather unresolved sound like you get when you start using those 6/9 voicings and minor and major 9th, 11ths, etc. I like throwing those types of voicings out there. I also use a good bit of hall reverb, a volume pedal, and delay pedal to create those swelling, textural harmonic undercurrents. It's quite a lovely sound when accompanying a soloist.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Quite agree, and I do much the same.  Ninths being my speciality.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Quite agree, and I do much the same.  Ninths being my speciality.


Well then we're a lot alike musically, then aren't we?


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> I mean Monk is so individualistic all it takes is 3 notes to know it's him playing. His compositions are so intricate. He also uses some unorthodox chord voicings. He's a very hard player to emulate.


It's exactly the same with Allan Holdsworth. Check out his chord playing here:











He avoids all the guitaristic clichés.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

I don't want to start spamming this thread out with Holdsworth, but seriously:


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> It's exactly the same with Allan Holdsworth. Check out his chord playing here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think we've had this discussion before I'm not sure, but I just can't get into Holdsworth. I mean I don't know why I can't. He's obviously a great player, but I just can't connect that much with him. The only time I liked him was when he was playing with Jean Luc Ponty and UK. I'm not a fan of his own music, but I can certainly see why other people like him.

I'm just not big into the whole fusion thing to be honest. Give me a swing rhythm and some Art Blakey any day.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I must agree that there's always room for some swing. Count Basie and Sidney Bechet are my bitches.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> I must agree that there's always room for some swing. Count Basie and Sidney Bechet are my bitches.


Exactly, I think that's the main problem with jazz musicians today. They lost their swing. There's something about that swung rhythm that just gets in your body and never leaves you.

You've got to love Count Basie's "Corner Pocket" written by Freddie Green. That's a hot tune.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Completely irrelevant, but a question that I fancy asking: how old are you, jtech? I have a vague idea but I'd be interested to see if I'm proven entirely wrong..


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> Completely irrelevant, but a question that I fancy asking: how old are you, jtech? I have a vague idea but I'd be interested to see if I'm proven entirely wrong..


I'm in my early 30s.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I suppose that's what I thought.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> I suppose that's what I thought.


Really? How old did you think I was?


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

No, I probably would have placed you around that age, honest guv!


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Bach said:


> No, I probably would have placed you around that age, honest guv!


Well I most of the time I don't even act my age because I don't like to! 

I like being silly and giving people a hard time.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

I do the same, but then I'm only 18..


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

I keep trying to get into jazz but apart from some swing, the genre does nothing for me at the moment. I got Bitches' Brew a few weeks ago having heard it was one of the best jazz albums out there but I just ended up getting bored.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

PartisanRanger said:


> I keep trying to get into jazz but apart from some swing, the genre does nothing for me at the moment. I got Bitches' Brew a few weeks ago having heard it was one of the best jazz albums out there but I just ended up getting bored.


That's one of the worst albums to start with! I pretty much dislike anything Miles did after 1964. I think he sold his soul and was trying to appeal to a larger audience. He basically compromised his own musical integrity in order to sale some records. That, in my opinion, is a slap in the face of everything that jazz stands for. Jazz is NOT a commercial music.

I will also say that jazz doesn't come to you, you go to it. It will always be what it is. Unfortunately, I'm not impressed with too many jazz musicians playing today.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> That's one of the worst albums to start with! I pretty much dislike anything Miles did after 1964. I think he sold his soul and was trying to appeal to a larger audience. He basically compromised his own musical integrity in order to sale some records. That, in my opinion, is a slap in the face of everything that jazz stands for. Jazz is NOT a commercial music.
> 
> I will also say that jazz doesn't come to you, you go to it. It will always be what it is. Unfortunately, I'm not impressed with too many jazz musicians playing today.


What would you recommend for some good jazz records to start out with?


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

PartisanRanger said:


> What would you recommend for some good jazz records to start out with?


Oh boy...you put me on the spot! Here are a couple that you just can't go wrong with:

Bill Evans Trio - Portrait In Jazz
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
John Coltrane - Blue Train
Thelonious Monk - Straight, No Chaser
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers - Moanin'
Modern Jazz Quartet - Django
Clifford Brown/Max Roach - Study In Brown
Bud Powell - Jazz Giant
Oscar Peterson Trio - Plays The Cole Porter Songbook

These will get you started. The rest is up to you. Enjoy!


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> Exactly, I think that's the main problem with jazz musicians today. They lost their swing.


Yeah... you can blame it on fusion!

_Bitches Brew_ is a work of genius. The title track is out of this world. Not really commercial - it's more difficult to listen to than, for instance, _Kind of Blue_! The latter features moderately long pieces with catchy melodies, whereas _Bitches Brew_ features long, sinuous, often dissonant, polyrhythmic epic improvisations, with psychadelic electric effects.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> Yeah... you can blame it on fusion!
> 
> _Bitches Brew_ is a work of genius. The title track is out of this world. Not really commercial - it's more difficult to listen to than, for instance, _Kind of Blue_! The latter features moderately long pieces with catchy melodies, whereas _Bitches Brew_ features long, sinuous, often dissonant, polyrhythmic epic improvisations, with psychadelic electric effects.


"Kind of Blue" is bebop at it's best. It's a beautiful album and in my opinion one of the greatest jazz albums ever made. The improvisations of Cannonball Adderley, Miles, Coltrane, Wynton Kelly, and Bill Evans blow any fusion away.

My problem with "Bitches Brew" is that the music goes nowhere. It's just a bunch of noise with no purpose. You might as well call it one long "Bolero." 

Miles sold his soul to sell albums. The only reason the album is one of the best selling jazz albums of all-time is because it was geared towards the rock audiences. People coming from bebop might pick the album out of curiosity, but that album was not geared towards jazz musicians or listeners.

Like I said, these jazz musicians today have lost their way. Jazz has got to swing for me to listen.


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## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

JTech82 said:


> Oh boy...you put me on the spot! Here are a couple that you just can't go wrong with:
> 
> Bill Evans Trio - Portrait In Jazz
> Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
> ...


Excellent suggestion, everyone should at least own some of these to get a taste of jazz. Blue train is my favorite out of these.

On the second point, repeated listening is required to appreciate jazz. Just like Bach, or extreme metal, it'll seem boring and uninteresting at first but the payoffs are immense if you keep on it.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

sam richards said:


> Excellent suggestion, everyone should at least own some of these to get a taste of jazz. Blue train is my favorite out of these.
> 
> On the second point, repeated listening is required to appreciate jazz. Just like Bach, or extreme metal, it'll seem boring and uninteresting at first but the payoffs are immense if you keep on it.


If you like jazz, then you should already own all these albums. I own around 5,000 jazz CDs and I haven't even bought any jazz since January. Jazz is in a dry period right now. In fact, I don't even listen to it much right now, so I'm not too worried about it.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Bach or Extreme metal, jazz all in the one basket?!?
Didn't you forget John Denver and Perotin?
Eh...?


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> My problem with "Bitches Brew" is that the music goes nowhere. It's just a bunch of noise with no purpose. You might as well call it one long "Bolero."


The improvs on BB are actually edited in a very structural manner. The title track for instance features similarities with sonata form.

And 'going nowhere' is part of the point - Indian ragas don't go anywhere harmonically - they're static. This is the point. Static, modal music exists as such in order to offer improvisers more freedom in every respect, and it is only the best who can carry on without making it sound boring, and the personnel on BB certainly manages that! They're jazz(-fusion) aristocracy, their names read like a who's-who of late sixties/early seventies jazz.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> The improvs on BB are actually edited in a very structural manner. The title track for instance features similarities with sonata form.
> 
> And 'going nowhere' is part of the point - Indian ragas don't go anywhere harmonically - they're static. This is the point. Static, modal music exists as such in order to offer improvisers more freedom in every respect, and it is only the best who can carry on without making it sound boring, and the personnel on BB certainly manages that! They're jazz(-fusion) aristocracy, their names read like a who's-who of late sixties early seventies jazz.


Well my opinion of "Bitches Brew" is I don't agree with it's concept nor do I like the music regardless of who the personnel is, which was an impressive bunch: Hancock, Shorter, Holland, Corea, McLaughlin, DeJohnette, etc., but I'm just not interested in that kind of music making. I like improvisation, but improvisation is not an end within itself.

Music is like a house. If the house's foundation has fault in it to begin with, then in time, everything else going to crumble down with it.


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## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

post-minimalist said:


> Bach or Extreme metal, jazz all in the one basket?!?
> Didn't you forget John Denver and Perotin?
> Eh...?


Please do not attempt to create a disturbance in an otherwise helpful and intelligent thread. I was giving a example to a person who dislikes jazz and shares a love of metal with me. You apparently dislike metal, but here we are discussing jazz. If you want to discuss metal there is another thread for it. So please let us discuss the music here.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

sam richards said:


> Excellent suggestion, everyone should at least own some of these to get a taste of jazz. Blue train is my favorite out of these.
> 
> On the second point, repeated listening is required to appreciate jazz. Just like Bach, or extreme metal, it'll seem boring and uninteresting at first but the payoffs are immense if you keep on it.


I would also add Coltrane's _magnum opus_ (in my opinion) _A Love Supreme_ to JTech's list.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

sam richards said:


> Please do not attempt to create a disturbance in an otherwise helpful and intelligent thread. I was giving a example to a person who dislikes jazz and shares a love of metal with me. You apparently dislike metal, but here we are discussing jazz. If you want to discuss metal there is another thread for it. So please let us discuss the music here.


Sorry, I don't indicate anywhere any personal opinion of Metal of any kind. I was rather bewildered my your supposition that repeated listening to almost anything somehow bears fruit. My point is that it doesn't. At some level there is an objective aspect to music even if we cannot define it in words. Bach, Jazz, Metal, Denver, Perotin.... It's not just a case of getting used to something, it's a also being able to develop and use your instinctive judgement to discern between rewarding music and unrewarding music.
I am a Jazz fan and at various stages metal, funk, ethnic, world, reggae, soul, motown, country, pop prog. rock, and several other genre have won my favour. I remain however a musician and a music lover.

Finally I have no desire to discuss metal but I do have a desire to discuss jazz. So please don't feel that you have to redirect members to other threads in which they have never expressed an interest just because they find your argument as leaky as a seive in a storm.

I strongly resent the accusation of trolling.

FC


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Herzeleide said:


> I would also add Coltrane's _magnum opus_ (in my opinion) _A Love Supreme_ to JTech's list.


Part 2 Resolution is the highlight of the incredible recording. What inspired playing from all concerned especially the often neglected Jimmy Garrison on Bass.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

post-minimalist said:


> Part 2 Resolution is the highlight of the incredible recording. What inspired playing from all concerned especially the often neglected Jimmy Garrison on Bass.


Have you heard the live version? IMO it's better than the studio version.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

I never knew it existed! I will track in down, trap it and eat it for dinner!


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

When you ask 'Jazz anyone?' could I reply with this?






Is this real jazz?

Or this (it's me waving my hands around!) if you like swing.


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## sam richards (Apr 8, 2009)

post-minimalist said:


> Sorry, I don't indicate anywhere any personal opinion of Metal of any kind. I was rather bewildered my your supposition that repeated listening to almost anything somehow bears fruit. My point is that it doesn't. At some level there is an objective aspect to music even if we cannot define it in words. Bach, Jazz, Metal, Denver, Perotin.... It's not just a case of getting used to something, it's a also being able to develop and use your instinctive judgement to discern between rewarding music and unrewarding music.
> I am a Jazz fan and at various stages metal, funk, ethnic, world, reggae, soul, motown, country, pop prog. rock, and several other genre have won my favour. I remain however a musician and a music lover.
> 
> Finally I have no desire to discuss metal but I do have a desire to discuss jazz. So please don't feel that you have to redirect members to other threads in which they have never expressed an interest just because they find your argument as leaky as a seive in a storm.
> ...


The point is, most good jazz and the other types of music I have mentioned are not exactly accessible to a first-time listener unlike say, John Denver. I mentioned extreme metal because the person who was I and jtech were responding to likes metal. And extreme metal is not accessible too.

And regarding instinctive judgment, most of the world doesn't study or has the amount of interest in music as we do, which is why stuff like 50 cent and Britney Spears sells more records than Bach and Beethoven combined. Because it's doesn't take much amount of attention to appreciate it (unlike Bach, for example).

No offense, let's get back on the topic now. 

What do you all think of free jazz?


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

And my point is that you can't use inaccessability as a criteria for quality or even likability.

Now we get back on topic!

Have a look at the links and you'll see how I feel about free jazz. 
FC


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> Oh boy...you put me on the spot! Here are a couple that you just can't go wrong with:
> 
> Bill Evans Trio - Portrait In Jazz
> Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
> ...


Great list. Another 10 that in my opinion are essential listening, or that I myself love anyway:

Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else
Duke Ellington - Uptown
Erroll Garner - Concert by the Sea
Grant Green - Idle Moments
Dizzy Gillespie - Have Trumpet, Will Excite!
Bobby Hutcherson - Dialogue
Yussef Lateef - Eastern Sounds
Charles Mingus - Tijuana Moods
Horace Silver - Song for my Father
Larry Young - Unity


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

a love supreme


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Bach said:


> a love supreme


True. Blue Train is most popular Coltrane's album, but it is ALS and My Favourite Things where he really showed how great he is.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

A love supreme is probably the greatest Jazz album of all time. 

Nobody's mentioned the musings of Keith Jarrett and his various concerts..


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Jarrett solo albums sounds more like classical than jazz to me.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, they're entirely improvised so they're definitely jazz..


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Miles Davis with Gil Evans - Miles Ahead +19
Keith Jarrett - Personal Mountains
Oscar Peterson - Night Train
Chick Korea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Count Basie/Neal Hefti - Atomic Basie Band E=MC^2
Sonny Clark - Blues in the Night
Thelonius Monk Qtet - Criss Cross
Kenny Wheeler - Gnu High
Ornette Coleman - When will the Blues Leave
Bobo Stenson Trio - War Orphans
Brad Mehldau Trio- Live at the Village Vanguard
John Scofield - Quiet

How many is that? Sorry if it's a bit more than ten, this too is alist that could go on and on and on....


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Do you know anyone who likes the Dokey Brothers? No? Didn't think so.


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## ecg_fa (Nov 10, 2008)

>>Keith Jarrett - Personal Mountains <

**Glad to see that one mentioned. That and 'Belonging' are perhaps my fave
KJ albums. I for one like his ensemble work more than his solo ones, though
I enjoy some of those too.

>>Kenny Wheeler - Gnu High
Ornette Coleman - When will the Blues Leave
Bobo Stenson Trio - War Orphans <<

**I love all those too.  My fave Kenny Wheelers are 'Deer Wan' and 'What Now?'
but 'Gnu High' probably third .

I love far too many jazz albums to limit or even try to pin down to 10. Here are
besides the ones I mention above first 10 that pop to mind!! No order though And leaving out jazz vocals pretty much which is a whole other can of worms .

Azimuth and Ralph Towner, Depart
John Coltrane, Live at Antibes
Oregon w. Zbiegniew Seifert, Violin
Steve Lacy, The Door
Count Basie Orchestra, Breakfast Dance and Barbeque
Miles Davis, Cellar Door Sessions (extended 'Live/Evil' Sessions)
Lee Konitz and Rich Perry, Richlee (duo sessions)
Evan Parker/Barry Guy/Paul Lytton/Marilyn Crispell, After Appleby
Nels Cline, Destroy All Nels Cline
Steve Kuhn Trio, the Best Things (hard to choose one).

Ed


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical (Mar 15, 2008)

I love Jazz music. Recently I have been really digging psychedelic sounding jazz like Bonobo and Jean Luc Ponty. Herbie Hancock is on my mind as well.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Steve Kuhn! Yeah and Ritchie Beirach!
Nice .


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## motpasm23 (May 30, 2009)

I was about to mention that no one mentioned Keith Jarrett...his Vienna Concert is incredible. Jarrett is, I think, supremely underrated, while Coltrane and Davis are highly overrated. But then again, modal jazz just doesn't usually do it for me. 

As for Jarrett, I would recommend Arbour Zena, Spirits, and Changeless to anyone who hasn't heard them.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Oh yeah man!


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## Cyclops (Mar 24, 2008)

I went thru a Count Basie phase years ago,must find some again. 
Also,any fans of Bix Beiderbecke on here?


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Oh yeah man! No.2

Keith Jarrett Personal Mountains

Sorry no pictures..... Hmmmm..


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

I like old fashioned "hot jazz" like from the 1920s. The modern-day stuff I will have to do without.


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Cyclops said:


> I went thru a Count Basie phase years ago,must find some again.
> Also,any fans of Bix Beiderbecke on here?


The Wolverine Orchestra and the Gang made some of the classier sides in the 1920s. On the other hand, I have recordings by maybe 100 other bands from that era that are also excellent. It was a golden age for popular music, when jazz was hot & you danced to it.


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## Cyclops (Mar 24, 2008)

I must get some Django too. That man was a legend!


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Tapkaara said:


> I like old fashioned "hot jazz" like from the 1920s. The modern-day stuff I will have to do without.


Amen, brother. 
Ken Colyer & many others made some excellent music in more recent times, but that's when the magic happened.
http://www.redhotjazz.com/b.html
Now that's jazz.


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## Clancy (Mar 14, 2009)

Jazz is excellent, I'm a big fan of both Jelly Roll Morton & Louis Armstrong, and have more recently got into bebop and related genres - Mingus, Coltrane, Thelonious Monk, Art Blakey, all that good stuff.

I did find later jazz hard to get into though, I think it was the lack of or very loose narrative to the music, it just seemed to meander and go nowhere. Nowadays I think of it less as a narrative and more like a musical "conversation", works for me.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I've just listened to On Green Dolphin Street, live album by Miles Davis. Very good one, especially these parts, where Coltrane and Evans are playing, and Miles don't.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Oh yeah man! No.3
Miles Davis, Gil Evans - 'The Duke' by Dave Brubeck


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## jadelee (Jun 3, 2009)

Miles Davis is my fav. His music helps me to live when i have black stripes in my life. Should thank him!


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## Drew93 (Jun 1, 2009)

Bach said:


> I have a great respect for Jtech's taste in Jazz. Similar to mine, but I might include a few more fusion artists.
> 
> My new love: Sidney Bechet


I don't particularly agree with JTech's taste, being a heavy traditionalist myself, but I whole-heartedly agree with you about Bechet!

I listen to pre-Bebop jazz for the most part i.e; Bunk Johnson, Louis Armstrong, Bix Beiderbecke, Frankie Trumbauer, Sidney Bechet, Bing Crosby, Rudy Wiedoeft and Mugsy Spanier to name but a few.

I would be interested to hear from other traditionalists if there are any of you out there


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Drew93 said:


> I don't particularly agree with JTech's taste, being a heavy traditionalist myself, but I whole-heartedly agree with you about Bechet!
> 
> I listen to pre-Bebop jazz for the most part i.e; Bunk Johnson, Louis Armstrong, Bix Beiderbecke, Frankie Trumbauer, Sidney Bechet, Bing Crosby, Rudy Wiedoeft and Mugsy Spanier to name but a few.
> 
> I would be interested to hear from other traditionalists if there are any of you out there


Bebop in my opinion was the greatest thing to happen to jazz music. It saved it from the stagnation of swing music. Jazz became more of a musician's music when bebop came to the forefront. During the 1940s, bebop was actually being played in nightclubs and at jam sessions, but it wasn't popular at that time. Bebop didn't start taking major shape until about 1948 or 1949 when Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Kenny Clarke were tearing down the house at Minton's Playhouse in New York or word of this "new music" spread like wildfire. Suddenly, it became "hip" to play bebop, but bebop never garnered as much attention as swing music, Dixieland, etc.

Bebop has been said to be the undoing of jazz music, but I look at it from an artistic point-of-view, it pushed it in a direction that demanded better musicianship and technical virtuosity.


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## Drew93 (Jun 1, 2009)

I can see your point Mirror Image, there was a problem with swing as it became very same-y but is there merit in sacrificing recognisable tune and melodic improvisation for technical complexity?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mirror Image said:


> Bebop in my opinion was the greatest thing to happen to jazz music. It saved it from the stagnation of swing music. Jazz became more of a musician's music when bebop came to the forefront.


It depends on whether one considers the "popswing" from Glenn Miller or the "real thing" from people like Duke Ellington or Count Basie. Glenn Miller and co had some good tunes, but since there is no improvisation it's not really jazz.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Drew93 said:


> I can see your point Mirror Image, there was a problem with swing as it became very same-y but is there merit in sacrificing recognisable tune and melodic improvisation for technical complexity?


Bebop has plenty of recognizable tunes. I guess you never heard "Moanin," "Salt Peanuts," "Dat Dere," "Straight, No Chaser," etc. These are popular tunes that have great melodic themes and incredible improvisation. Look at how many hits the Dave Brubeck Quartet churned out. They very popular, but they were all first-class improvisers. There are times I wished I would played alto saxophone just so I could sound like Paul Desmond.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> It depends on whether one considers the "popswing" from Glenn Miller or the "real thing" from people like Duke Ellington or Count Basie. Glenn Miller and co had some good tunes, but since there is no improvisation it's not really jazz.


Don't forget about Stan Kenton. People always fail to mention him. He was a supreme big band director. He had an amazing band. Some great musicians came through him like Lee Konitz and Art Pepper.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mirror Image said:


> Don't forget about Stan Kenton. People always fail to mention him. He was a supreme big band director. He had an amazing band. Some great musicians came through him like Lee Konitz and Art Pepper.


Yes, and one of my favourite pop-jazz vocalists - June Christy, used to sing with his band also.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Somebody recommend me some noisy, extreme fusion-jazz with ludicrously technical extended solos..


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## Drew93 (Jun 1, 2009)

Mark Harwood said:


> The Wolverine Orchestra and the Gang made some of the classier sides in the 1920s. On the other hand, I have recordings by maybe 100 other bands from that era that are also excellent. It was a golden age for popular music, when jazz was hot & you danced to it.


You're definitely right there! The 1920s - 30s period produced most of the best jazz ever recorded in my opinion. I've just recently found some recordings by a C-Melody saxophonist called Rudy Wiedoeft which are definitely worth a listen. You should be able to find them via YouTube.


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## Drew97 (May 22, 2009)

Mark Harwood said:


> 1920s jazz & hot dance bands.
> The Original Indiana Five. The Dixie Daisies. The Original Memphis Five. The Cotton Pickers. The Wolverine Orchestra. The Georgians. The Georgia Melodians. Sonny Clay's Plantation Orchestra. The Tennessee Tooters. Charley Straight's Orchestra. Ladd's Black Aces. Jimmie Joy's bands. The Arcadian Serenaders. The New Orleans Rhythm Kings. The California Ramblers, and their many spin-offs. The Halfway House Orchestra. The King Oliver bands: the Creole Jazz Band, the Dixie Syncopators, and his Orchestra. The Hot Fives and Sevens. Scores of others from that decade.
> More recent: Ken Colyer. Current: The Savannah Jazz Band.


Wow. I think I'm going to spend several hours on YouTube/Spotify searching for all of these. I like jazz from 1920s to 1940s and people like Chris Barber, Pasadena Roof Orchestra and Temperance Seven.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> Somebody recommend me some noisy, extreme fusion-jazz with ludicrously technical extended solos..


Mahavishnu Orchestra, Tribal Tech, Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth...


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Bach said:


> Somebody recommend me some noisy, extreme fusion-jazz with ludicrously technical extended solos..


Frank Zappa albums: Hot Rats and Waka/Jawaka.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I like jazz, except all that improvisation. In other words, I don't like jazz  I don't really see any advantage in improvisational method compared to proper composing. Just gives the genre aimless, noodling masturbatory sound. 
Sometimes the results are decent though.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

No Bill Evans so far?


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Cmaj7 said:


> I like jazz, except all that improvisation. In other words, I don't like jazz  I don't really see any advantage in improvisational method compared to proper composing. Just gives the genre aimless, noodling masturbatory sound.
> Sometimes the results are decent though.


 Whatever. I never read such a misinformed statement until I read this one.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Well, if my statements were misinformed, I guess you can point out the error in them? Maybe there's some hidden logic in those jazz solos but usually I don't hear it. Isn't composing inherently superior to improvisation? With improvisation, your fingers and reflexes will easily guide more than your brain/ear. So why on earth improvise rather than compose? Perhaps making a solo on the stop is an interesting challange for the instrumentalist but from listener's perspective I see hardly any advantages.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Cmaj7 said:


> Well, if my statements were misinformed, I guess you can point out the error in them? Maybe there's some hidden logic in those jazz solos but usually I don't hear it. Isn't composing inherently superior to improvisation? With improvisation, your fingers and reflexes will easily guide more than your brain/ear. So why on earth improvise rather than compose? Perhaps making a solo on the stop is an interesting challange for the instrumentalist but from listener's perspective I see hardly any advantages.


For starters, jazz is an original American art form, it's spirit was deeply rooted in the blues (another American art form) and branched out. Improvisation has been apart of music since the dawn of time, so there's nothing new about improvisation other than it's taken on many different shades and guises through the centuries, so any further arguments you have about improv are wrong.

Jazz is really misunderstood I think. Improvisation has been an integral part of music, what happened is jazz borrowed ideas from world music like Indian classical music, which has a ton of improvisation in it, European classical music, African music, and blues. It formed into this melting pot of a lot of different kinds of music much like the United States is a melting pot of many different ethnic groups, religions, etc.

To the untrained ear I suppose jazz can sound exactly as you described, but I think you either "get" jazz or you don't. Jazz is a musician's music I think, but there are thousands upon thousands of people who enjoy listening to it even though they don't play an instrument. Jazz still sells and will continue to sell, because there's somebody right now sitting down discovering the Duke or Art Blakey right now.

Jazz isn't pure improvisation. Only free jazz is nothing, but improvisation, but big band, bebop, hard-bop, cool jazz, fusion, etc. all have structures and there are set chord progressions, keys, and melodies that are established.

I honestly don't think you've spent any real time with jazz to form any kind of hypothesis of it. Listen, learn, and enjoy.


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

Mirror Image said:


> Mahavishnu Orchestra, Tribal Tech, Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth...


Cheers man, but I would rather hear Jazz-funk than Jazz-rock. Any other suggestions?


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## Bach (Jun 2, 2008)

The only music that isn't improvised is western classical and western popular music. (the latter often contains improvised passages - and even the former can have a quite a few liberties, particularly in the baroque and renaissance periods)

If you think improvisation is inherently inferior to composition - technically you may be right. However, emotionally - you're most certainly wrong. 

The freedom and spontaneity of improvisation can create a far more pure and human form of expression than the painful and long-winded process of scoring and manipulation.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

All classical organists today are still trained in improvisation, a tradition reaching back all the way to Bach (who was a noted improvisor) and before.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Bach said:


> Cheers man, but I would rather hear Jazz-funk than Jazz-rock. Any other suggestions?


Galactic, John Scofield, Screaming Headless Torsos....I used to know more.


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## Exordiom (Nov 27, 2013)

There are many occasions where I prefer Jazz to even my beloved Baroque!


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## Doc (Dec 7, 2013)

I can't believe I've only just found this thread! I actually got into jazz long before I listened to any classical music, which I suppose is a little strange. I'm mainly a modern jazz sort of guy, and skimming over the replies here it seems people have already called out the greats. Off the top of my head, here's a list of my favourites:

Thelonious Monk, Charles Mingus, Miles Davis, Bill Evans, Duke Ellington, Alice and John Coltrane, Art Blakey, Chet Baker, Sonny Rollins, Eric Dolphy, Andrew Hill, Horace Silver, Herbie Hancock, Billy Taylor, Sun Ra, Ornette Coleman, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Larry Young, Elvin Jones, Cecil Taylor, Oliver Nelson, Hank Mobley, Wayne Shorter, Grant Green, Count Basie, Albert Ayler, Cannonball Adderly, Dave Brubeck (often dismissed as _selling out_, though people only seem to have heard 'Take Five'), Erroll Garner, Jim Hall (recently passed away), Sonny Sharrock, Pharoah Sanders, Oscar Peterson, Tomasz Stanko, McCoy Tyner, Bob Brookmeyer, Fats Waller, Chick Corea.

There's probably dozens more, but those are the guys I can think of right now.



JTech82 said:


> That's one of the worst albums to start with! I pretty much dislike anything Miles did after 1964. I think he sold his soul and was trying to appeal to a larger audience. He basically compromised his own musical integrity in order to sale some records. That, in my opinion, is a slap in the face of everything that jazz stands for. Jazz is NOT a commercial music.


Interestingly, 'Bitches Brew' was the first jazz album that I bought and listened to, though I agree that it may be a little hard for the neophyte to grasp. I've collected everything Miles recorded for Columbia up to '75, and your cut off point of 1964 dismisses more than half of that output. Many of the post-'64 albums are quite fantastic, not least 'Miles Smiles', 'Sorcerer' and the infallible 'In a Silent Way'. If it were me, I would push that 1964 boundary back to 81'. His final eight studio albums I can do without.


















​
EDIT: Just realised that this thread died back in 2009 and was revived yesterday by Exordiom. Guess I was so excited by my finding a jazz thread that I neglected to notice the post-date.


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## Gilberto (Sep 12, 2013)

Doc said:


> If it were me, I would push that 1964 boundary back to 81'. His final eight studio albums I can do without.


Well, it was a new direction and I was lucky enough to see approx. a dozen concerts during that time and was never disappointed. I believe the best of that time period was Star People; almost all extended solo blues oriented. Whoever you quoted about compromising his integrity is off the mark according to much of the interview material that I've read. Different strokes etc...


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm not sure what to think about Miles after Bitches brew. There are some pieces I like and some good intuitions (I like especially Get up with it), but I think that when Shorter abandoned the group the music declined and it was not anymore of the same stellar level of that of the second quintet. After all, Shorter is one of the great composers and after Bitches brew the albums are based mainly on vamps.


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## Doc (Dec 7, 2013)

Gilberto said:


> Well, it was a new direction and I was lucky enough to see approx. a dozen concerts during that time and was never disappointed. I believe the best of that time period was Star People; almost all extended solo blues oriented. Whoever you quoted about compromising his integrity is off the mark according to much of the interview material that I've read. Different strokes etc...


It certainly was a new direction. However, having listened to what I'll tentatively call his 'golden period' beforehand, I don't think any new work could have lived up to such a fantastic back-catalogue. Don't get me wrong, Miles's later albums aren't disgustingly bad, but I'd just rather listen to his earlier records. Like Norman Bates said, they just aren't of the same stellar level of that of the second quintet.


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## aakermit (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm a huge jazz fan. Too many favorites to mention but here is my top 10 roughly in order:
1.Louis Armstrong
2.Charlie Parker
3.Miles Davis
4.Bud Powell
4.Art Pepper
5.Ella Fitzgerald
6.Bill Evans
7.John Coltrane
8.Jelly Roll Morton
9.Keith Jarrett
10.Chet Baker


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

His name is Evans... Bill Evans.


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## Metalhed (Nov 27, 2013)

Not sure I know what style/classification of jazz these artists fall under, but I have been a fan of the following jazz artists for some time now: 

Spyro Gyra
Acoustic Alchemy
Yellowjackets
Larry Carlton
Lee Ritenour
Stanley Jordan


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## aakermit (Nov 23, 2013)

I would classify these artists as "Smooth jazz" or "Groove jazz" rather than jazz. To my ear they are too programic in style.


Metalhed said:


> Not sure I know what style/classification of jazz these artists fall under, but I have been a fan of the following jazz artists for some time now:
> 
> Spyro Gyra
> Acoustic Alchemy
> ...


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Bach said:


> The only music that isn't improvised is western classical and western popular music. (the latter often contains improvised passages - and even the former can have a quite a few liberties, particularly in the baroque and renaissance periods)
> 
> If you think improvisation is inherently inferior to composition - technically you may be right. However, emotionally - you're most certainly wrong.
> 
> The freedom and spontaneity of improvisation can create a far more pure and human form of expression than the painful and long-winded process of scoring and manipulation.


A lot of improvisation is partly thought ought before hand.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Piwikiwi said:


> A lot of improvisation is partly thought ought before hand.


Or at least a good portion of it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I love Miles Davis as in "Jack Johnson", "Sketches Of Spain" and "Bitches Brew".
I used to play this stuff when I lived in a Queens apartment and my neighbor underneath me kept banging up with a broom handle to quiet it down! Perhaps it was Samurai?


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm a huge jazz and fusion fan.

I love much of the ECM catalogue; Eberhard Weber, Jarrett, Towner, Enrico Rava, Art Ensemble of Chicago, Kenny Wheeler Jan Garbarek, Barre Philips, Terje Rypdal, to name a few.

Coltrane, Braxton, Cecil Taylor, Ganzalo Rubalcaba (unbelievable chops!), Miles, Monk, Dolphy, etc.

But my first love in jazz is definitely fusion.

Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Jean Luc Ponty, Weather Report, Brand X, Iceberg, and most of the first wave of the 70's.

Holdsworth is one of the best improvisors ever on guitar.

Chic, Clarke, Percy Jones, Cobham, Jan Hammer, Al Di Meola, and so many others.

There are some incredible modern fusion bands and players that are stretching the genre:

Spaced Out from Canada, with the great Antoine Farfad on bass.

Panzerballett from Germany. Incredible chops and complexity. And a sense of humor.

Forgas Band Phenomena from France. Straddle the line between fusion and prog.

Counter World-Experience from Germany. Very complex metal-fusion.

Planet X from USA.

Exivious, Impact Fuse, Morglbl, the list goes on....

I love this vid from Impact Fuze -


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## Fortinbras Armstrong (Dec 29, 2013)

I tried for years to like Miles Davis. I can appreciate his talent, but I simply don't like his music.

I have just about every album that Louis Armstrong ever did. I like the way he could just sketch out a melody line, and the only person who could touch him as a scat singer was Cab Calloway.

My favorite album, however, is Hubert Laws' _Afro-Classic_, especially his versions of Fire and Rain and the Allegro from Bach's Concerto No. 3 in D. Oh, and Mozart's Flute Sonata in F, K. 13 is just beautiful.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Fortinbras Armstrong said:


> I tried for years to like Miles Davis. I can appreciate his talent, but I simply don't like his music.


Nothing? He did more different things that anybody else in the genre I think, from bebop in his days with Charlie Parker to the cool of Birth of the cool, from the modal jazz of kind of blue to the third stream of sketches of spain, from the post-bop of the second quintet to jazz rock, from fusion to pop, and some of his experiments predated also ambient and drum and bass. The noir soundtrack for Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud, the funk of On the corner... I mean, even if you don't like his way to play he was surrounded by so many different great musicians, arrangers, composers and producers and in so many different styles that it's difficult not to find something interesting in his albums.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I've only been listening to a very little bit of jazz in the past year. Mainly two double CDs featuring three albums each. And most recently, Dave Holland's new CD.


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## BillT (Nov 3, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> A lot of improvisation is partly thought ought before hand.


A novel use of the word!

- Bill


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

Marcin Wasilewski,Bobo Stenson and Tomasz Stanko-I would never really call myself a jazz 'fan' but those three are just remarkable...but then again there is also Jarrett, Metheny, Scofield, Charles Lloyd, Weather Report......I think I have had it with labels, genres etc.......


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## Fortinbras Armstrong (Dec 29, 2013)

norman bates said:


> Nothing? He did more different things that anybody else in the genre I think, from bebop in his days with Charlie Parker to the cool of Birth of the cool, from the modal jazz of kind of blue to the third stream of sketches of spain, from the post-bop of the second quintet to jazz rock, from fusion to pop, and some of his experiments predated also ambient and drum and bass. The noir soundtrack for Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud, the funk of On the corner... I mean, even if you don't like his way to play he was surrounded by so many different great musicians, arrangers, composers and producers and in so many different styles that it's difficult not to find something interesting in his albums.


As I said, I tried for years to like Miles Davis, but I simply can't. And when I say "years", I mean exactly that. I know he did different things, I've heard many them. I simply don't like his music.

Some years ago, on a now-defunct talkboard, I mentioned that I have an intense dislike of capsicum peppers. (The taste, and even more, the smell, is something I find nauseating.) There was one woman who insisted that I should like them, and refused to accept any variant of _de gustibus non disputandum est_ from me. In another thread on that same talkboard, I said that I disliked the novel _Lord of the Flies_, and the same woman insisted that I should like it. I said that the only even vaguely sympathetic characters got killed fairly early on, and I believed that the theme of the fragility of civilization was better handled by Joseph Conrad in _Heart of Darkness_. On another thread on this talkboard, I was taken to task by one poster for loathing the Second Vienna School, and my refusal to agree that Schoenberg, Berg et al made "beautiful music" showed my lack of appreciation of good music. Sorry, but I have believed for decades that their music is ugly.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Fortinbras Armstrong said:


> As I said, I tried for years to like Miles Davis, but I simply can't. And when I say "years", I mean exactly that. I know he did different things, I've heard many them. I simply don't like his music.
> 
> Some years ago, on a now-defunct talkboard, I mentioned that I have an intense dislike of capsicum peppers. (The taste, and even more, the smell, is something I find nauseating.) There was one woman who insisted that I should like them, and refused to accept any variant of _de gustibus non disputandum est_ from me. In another thread on that same talkboard, I said that I disliked the novel _Lord of the Flies_, and the same woman insisted that I should like it. I said that the only even vaguely sympathetic characters got killed fairly early on, and I believed that the theme of the fragility of civilization was better handled by Joseph Conrad in _Heart of Darkness_. On another thread on this talkboard, I was taken to task by one poster for loathing the Second Vienna School, and my refusal to agree that Schoenberg, Berg et al made "beautiful music" showed my lack of appreciation of good music. Sorry, but I have believed for decades that their music is ugly.


I certainly didn't want to polemize about your tastes. It's just that he has done things so incredibly different that I thought it was difficult to dislike all of those things and all the great contributions of the musicians who played on his albums (Bill Evans, Gil Evans, Thelonious Monk, Sonny Rollins, Coltrane, Horace Silver, Cannonball, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Gerry Mulligan, John Lewis etc).


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## helpmeplslol (Feb 1, 2014)

Paul Desmond, Dexter Gordon, Barney Kessel, Count Basie, Billie Holiday...


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