# Final Contest: Nel di della vittoria . Callas, Baltsa, Souliotis, Verrett



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Vote for TWO: Callas and your next favorite singer LOL


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Silly sez I to put La Divina with her superb chest tones in there against the rest -- it's a runaway.
BUT... very close by with lack of great chest tones but a wonderful delivery otherwise is Verrett in 2nd place.
I also give Suliotis credit for some really kick *** chest action.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Callas and Verrett - I'll never capture lightning in a bottle again after having written this post - Sutherland vs Callas so I won't even try - Besides, even though it's a re-run, I still get paid after having signed a really lucrative syndication deal to have my more entertaining posts running in non-stop 24/7 repeats on cable television..

Interesting facts about Shirley Verrett -

"By this time she was gravitating towards soprano roles – she had always had an impressive upper register – and it was as Cassandre in Berlioz's Les Troyens that she was due to sing. The mezzo undertaking the role of Dido, however – Christa Ludwig – was indisposed on the opening night and Verrett took both roles, an extraordinary feat which required her to remain on stage for a good deal of the four hours over which the opera extends. After this, her career at the Met blossomed and she went on to make 126 appearances in all, in both mezzo and soprano roles

For a mezzo manqué she had a remarkable facility in the stratosphere: Norma's top E flats were delivered flawlessly, while the "knife-like glitter of her keen-edged tone" as Verdi's Lady Macbeth was praised. Her success in the latter role at La Scala in 1975 led to a benchmark recording under Claudio Abbado (Deutsche Grammophon, 1976).- which is the recording being featured here.

Nowhere was she received with more adulation than in Italy, where she was known as La Nera Callas (the Black Callas).

The breadth of her vocal range came at a price, however. Underpowered in the middle register, her voice could also acquire a strident edge when pushed higher up, while the lower notes could be forced and unsteady in pitch. Verrett herself acknowledged that her singing was inconsistent, but only late in her career did she discover that she suffered from an allergy to mould spores which clogged her bronchial tubes. For some, her singing was over-emphatic and characterised by reckless abandon, but to others this visceral quality was its strength. At her best, Verrett could produce tone that was both silky and sumptuous; her majestic ascent to climactic high notes was truly spine-tingling. Her stage presence too, exuding regal authority, was electrifying."

Shirley Verrett obituary


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> I also give Suliotis credit for some really kick *** chest action.


That sounds like an impressive anatomical feat. Perhaps she is reversed from the waist down.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Both runner-ups - Baltsa and Verrett - give very good performances. Souliotis isn't competitive. I agree with Verdi (though he overstates to make a point) that the Lady shouldn't sound pretty, and that's the main reason I'd put Baltsa in third place here. Verrett's dusky tone is just more evocative of murder on the moors, and I imagine she sounds pretty spooky in the great aria Verdi wrote for his revised version, "La luce langue," in which Callas is so wonderfully _noir_. I do, though, really like the way Baltsa lingers on "Duncano sara qui...," and her reading of the letter is delectably controlled, reminding us that Lady M is a noblewoman as well as a succubus.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Callas and Verrett - I'll never capture lightning in a bottle again after having written this post - Sutherland vs Callas so I won't even try - Besides, even though it's a re-run, I still get paid after having signed a really lucrative syndication deal to have my more entertaining posts running in non-stop 24/7 repeats on cable television..
> 
> Interesting facts about Shirley Verrett -
> 
> ...


When she was still a mezzo she was one of my very favorites. She was a very good Norma but I never marveled at the beauty of her voice in the role like I did for Arsace with Caballe in the 60's. She changed the voice to sing soprano unlike Dimitrova who was the same for Aida and Amneris, but..... she was a freak.
I made the mistake of listening to her in her 50's and it was about the same as listening to Callas late in her career.
Stignani was offered soprano roles as she had the range to do it but the glorious state of her voice late in her career was a testament to her wise choice not to go that route.
Gwyneth Jones started as a mezzo but her teacher felt she was a lazy soprano.
Violetta Urmana and Waltraud Meier were some of the few success tales in moving up, but I never though Meier sounded like a mezzo to my ears.
Ponselle wanted to move to mezzo roles as her top notes became less reliable with age and was disappointed her Carmen wasn't a success. It wasn't that her voice wasn't good for the role but her interpretation sucked and she was a nervous performer so that sunk the ship for her. She certainly had the range to sing contralto if she so desired but those aren't prima donna roles.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

It’s Callas, of course.
I’m not fond of Souliotis, whom I find to be an incomplete singer. I can’t forgive the lack of trills and that vibrato-less sound up high - she also sounds brittle. She can be exciting but that’s not enough. I voted “against” Baltsa in a previous round because I thought she was too light-toned, though she was fluid. I want a dark voice here.
It’s Verrett by default.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Callas is so clearly ahead of the competition here and Souliotis so far behind that the question is whom should I make my second choice, Baltsa or Verrett.
Baltsa sings it very intelligently. She reads the letter well and makes the recitative really mean something, but I would have to agree that, though she sings with the necessary vehemence (with stunning top notes, I might add) she doesn't have the sound of malevolent evil in her voice, though there is no doubt this Lady Macbeth would be able to seduce her husband to do her bidding.
As Woodduck pointed out, Verrett's darker voice is more apt for a bit of "murder on the moors" and therefore she edges into second place.

I might just add that Souliotis might have made a better showing if this earlier version had been chosen. It was recorded around the same time as her stunning Abigaille. She is still found wanting in some technical matters (no trill for instance), but the voice is in much better condition. Sad to think this was only about five years before the recording chosen for the competition.





I'd also add that Callas's 1952 live performance under De Sabata puts her even further ahead of the competition. I doubt there has ever been a more perfect rendering of the scene.





The one chosen for the competition is from her 1958 Verdi recital.

So, in conclusion, Callas by a couple of lengths, Verrett in second place by a short head and Souliotis trailing way behind.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Callas is so clearly ahead of the competition here and Souliotis so far behind that the question is whom should I make my second choice, Baltsa or Verrett.
> Baltsa sings it very intelligently. She reads the letter well and makes the recitative really mean something, but I would have to agre that, though she sings with the necessary vehemence (with stunning top notes, I might add) she doesn't have the sound of malevolent evil in her voice, though there is no doubt this Lady Macbeth would be able to seduce her husband to do her bidding.
> As Woodduck pointed out, Verrett's darker voice is more apt for a bit of "murder on the moors" and therefore she edges into second place.
> 
> ...


It is always hard especially with Callas to pick both the best quality recording and the best quality performance.I think I had a better Callas fan choice picked out but went for a better recording in the end. Live and learn. I didn't get Shaughnessy's help on Souliotis and maybe her earlier recording might have shown up for him, but it did not turn up for me. Either way Callas is the clear winner. I think she might have more interesting competition in the Sleepwalking Scene later, but I have been proven wrong before. A different cast of singers next round.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is always hard especially with Callas to pick both the best quality recording and the best quality performance.I think I had a better Callas fan choice picked out but went for a better recording in the end. Live and learn. I didn't get Shaughnessy's help on Souliotis and maybe her earlier recording might have shown up for him, but it did not turn up for me. Either way Callas is the clear winner. I think she might have more interesting competition in the Sleepwalking Scene later, but I have been proven wrong before. A different cast of singers next round.


Haven't we already done the Sleepwalking Scene? Or was that comparing Callas's two performances, from 1952 and 1958?
In any case I've never heard anyone to match her penetrating psychological insight into the scene.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Haven't we already done the Sleepwalking Scene? Or was that comparing Callas's two performances, from 1952 and 1958?
> In any case I've never heard anyone to match her penetrating psychological insight into the scene.


I can't find it in any search on our site. You can skip if if you find it unnecessary ;-)


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I can't find it in any search on our site. You can skip if if you find it unnecessary ;-)


Nor can I, but I'm pretty sure I remember discussion as to which of her two Sleepwalking Scene's was best. I preferred her later recording, but most, including Woodduck, went for the earlier performance. They are quite different as De Sabata on the 1952 live performance takes it at a much faster tempo than Rescigno for the recital. I prefer the slower tempo because it gives her much more time to make her points.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This thread has a very long title. Perhaps it should have said: "Spoiler Alert - Callas will win!"

It's interesting to listen to these recordings again and compare. Baltsa is already out of the contest for me as I know I prefer Verrett over her version as it simply has more heft and suits the role much better.

It's good to hear Callas' 1958 recording of the aria in very good sound. The voice is still in pretty good shape despite high notes being somewhat off centre and (in a couple of places) frayed. She's lucky to have Rescigno providing expertly phrased rubati and I realise this is the first version to really feel properly italianate. (Gardelli is a close runner up in that respect.)

While Callas here isn't quite at the divine level she manages in the 1952 live performance, this is easily the winner. She has it all.

Souliotis is wayward, the voice is frayed and can't take much pressure. As Tsarras and Woodduck have pointed out, the signs of her demise were all there in her early recordings and she no doubt sang her voice out. I wouldn't go so far as to say that she was voiceless by this point though and her odd tone makes her a haunting Lady with something of the supernatural about her. Can she sing all the notes? Can the Callas of 1958? (Although Callas has far more of her vocal qualities left in her recording, it must be said.) Just as there is wobble tolerance when it comes to Callas, ones tendency to overlook technical shortcomings is going to be just as personal. Interestingly, it's in the cabaletta where Souliotis has fewer problems and the high notes come out with a freedom they haven't in the earlier part of the aria.

Now onto Verrett. I don't like her dark tone in this role. Had Verdi wanted that he would have written the part for a mezzo and not a soprano. Technically she is possibly the best when it comes to the versions offered here. er interpretation is very subtle, but I'm not getting any of the diabolical side of the Lady that we get from Callas and Souliotis. I think it's a straight competition between technique and drama. I understand why most will probably prefer the better sung Verrett, but in this role I can overlook some amount of technical imperfection in return for a she devil. I pick Souliotis.

N.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Callas is so clearly ahead of the competition here and Souliotis so far behind that the question is whom should I make my second choice, Baltsa or Verrett.
> Baltsa sings it very intelligently. She reads the letter well and makes the recitative really mean something, but I would have to agree that, though she sings with the necessary vehemence (with stunning top notes, I might add) she doesn't have the sound of malevolent evil in her voice, though there is no doubt this Lady Macbeth would be able to seduce her husband to do her bidding.
> As Woodduck pointed out, Verrett's darker voice is more apt for a bit of "murder on the moors" and therefore she edges into second place.
> 
> ...


This would be the label issue of the Souliotis recording which you posted - It's a cleaner transfer than the fan video -

Elena Suliotis - Classic Recitals - Verdi: Macbeth / Act 1 - "Nel di della vittoria... Ambizioso spirto... Vieni! t'affreta!"

SOF and I are working quite well together although, as he has mentioned, we are often working from entirely different perspectives - He values "performance" at the expense of "recording" which should take precedence and would were it not for my (bad) influence on the decisions made but the only real skill of any value that I can bring to this series of competitions is to find the best quality recordings that I can possibly find. I can hear "quality" of recording which is not necessarily in any way related to "quality" of performance. As mentioned in a previous thread, I'm pretty much a glorified disc jockey coasting along on good looks, talent, and a rather charming Irish accent - 

I lack the level of expertise needed to make these kinds of judgement calls on "quality of performance" and, as is evident, quality performances are being bypassed as a result of their perceived aural failures.

SOF has been quickly learning the tricks that I use to find recordings and at some point in the not too distant future, he'll be able to completely bypass my involvement and present a selection of candidates which better balance the qualities of performance and recording.

The partnership was always meant to be temporary - I can teach him how to search for recordings far more quickly than he'll ever be able to teach me how to hear and understand the differences between "early", "middle" and "late" period stages of each performer's career. He once requested "fat Callas" recordings rather than "skinny Callas" recordings - two terms which left me looking as puzzled as an organ grinder's monkey being handed a Rubik's Cube.

I've listened to about 20 of these Macbeth recordings - studied the lyrics and the various plot summaries - thought about reading detailed analyses and consulting experts - but didn't get around to doing either -
and all I know for certain is that it is apparently a story about a gypsy with tuberculosis who falls in love with a naval officer - That much, I do know... the rest is pretty much being made up as I go along.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> This would be the label issue of the Souliotis recording which you posted - It's a cleaner transfer than the fan video -
> 
> Elena Suliotis - Classic Recitals - Verdi: Macbeth / Act 1 - "Nel di della vittoria... Ambizioso spirto... Vieni! t'affreta!"
> 
> ...


I would just say that, in these competitions at least, performance should take precedence over recording, and that, once the best performance has been alighted on, then is the time to look for the best sounding recording of that particular performance.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Nor can I, but I'm pretty sure I remember discussion as to which of her two Sleepwalking Scene's was best. I preferred her later recording, but most, including Woodduck, went for the earlier performance. They are quite different as De Sabata on the 1952 live performance takes it at a much faster tempo than Rescigno for the recital. I prefer the slower tempo because it gives her much more time to make her points.


I remember something too, but I looked over all the contests for the past year and there was nothing and if it is over a year it is fair game I think and this time I have some interesting other singers. Callas will still win but it will be a worthwhile discussion I think.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't judge on a recording sound. I give gratitutde that by sifting through those Maplesons it has developed and strengthened my ear control. I am only involved in the sound of a voice and how it projects itself with the most uniqueness and excitement.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I would just say that, in these competitions at least, performance should take precedence over recording, and that, once the best performance has been alighted on, then is the time to look for the best sounding recording of that particular performance.


I've shown SOF most of the tricks of the trade that he'll need to find better quality recordings which he will now pair with his expertise in the performance aspects of the subject matter - It will be a better thread now that he's added arrows to the quiver - From my first conversation with him, I made it clear that my participation was only intended to be temporary - and now, with my work at an end, I wish him nothing but the best of luck.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I don't judge on a recording sound. I give gratitutde that by sifting through those Maplesons it has developed and strengthened my ear control. I am only involved in the sound of a voice and how it projects itself with the most uniqueness and excitement.


That is my approach for the most part. That is why I like old recordings... for the voice not the stereo phonics. I'll try to refine it now.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> That is my approach for the most part. That is why I like old recordings... for the voice not the stereo phonics. I'll try to refine it now.


Stereophonics or not, if a voice has "got it" it makes no difference if it doesn't happen to record as well on lesser recordings. If it's there, it's already there. Of course enhancing with fine studio equipment is always a pleasant plus.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

20 voters and all of them voted for Callas, and it wasn't even her best recording of the aria, that would be 1952 at La Scala. She really was a miracle.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Op.123 said:


> 20 voters and all of them voted for Callas, and it wasn't even her best recording of the aria, that would be 1952 at La Scala. She really was a miracle.


That’s what Elisabeth Schwarzkopft said about her (“That woman is a miracle”).


----------

