# Searching for the Essentials of the Mid-Romantic !



## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

Hello forum, its Melvin! All's well here; I'm off at college now, in my cozy little dorm at Wayne State. If you don't mind, I must inquire of you for some key compositions and recordings from a couple composers i'm looking at currently. I havn't been on these forms in quite a while--- I ran into a miserable little bout with tinnitus mad, which had set on around the begining of summer. Well, I was pretty depressed for awhile; music now caused my ears unbearable pain!! It was looking like i'd be retireing my Sennheisers and my mp3er for good, and so they sat in my drawer collecting dust all summer... Thankfuly, the symptoms have _substantialy_ subsided since onset!! And I'm excited to resume my forgotten quest once more!

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Ok so basicly i'm trying to slowly work my way up chronologicly to present time; I'll be exploring the major composers, and experiencing the essential listenings of each period, whilst getting a general feel for the overall aesthetical developments throughout history. Already, i have worked my way up to, and skimed the main lot of the early romantics [Schumann, Chopin, Schubert, Mendelssohn, ect] and am mostly finished with them.

I'm eager to move forward to the mid-romantic: Brahms, and his contemporaries.
Brahms - i've already been listening to for quite awhile already! Clearly an incredible composer, and one of the elite!! Such a rich and diverse catalogue to choose from, and probably all top quality work too. And some _most_ impressive symphonies
Liszt - this dude is bananas! From what i've heard in his 2 piano concertos, he sounds very unique compared to his contemporaries- kinda wacky, slightly retarted, but quite entertaining; haha and he's always coming in with all sorts of these ridiculous keyboard stunts! never know what he'll pull out of his bag o tricks
oh yeah, and he wrote that hillarious song in that one Tom & Jerry episode!:lol:
heh heh i was laughing about that all day today when i found that out
Wagner - I can't leave him out; extremely influential as i understand it. but i honestly can't say i'm all too keen on trying to sit down and listen to these operas of his. I gave it an honest attempt before, and it was allright. i'm just not typicaly willing to spend 5 hours of my day listening to this stuff, not understanding a word of it, and not having any context for the music at all.... I did listen to Tristan prelude, several times actualy; it's great, but I can tell that it takes some verrry delicate directing to give it any life, so i'd like to know which recordings the forum would suggest.

first I want this thread to focus primarily on brahms
-Brahms
>A _fully comprehensive_ list of his greatest compositions! (I really like his music)
>Which are favorite/essential recordings?
>Suggest a great recording for violin sonata no. 1?

later we'll move on to wagner nd liszt 
-Liszt
>A _concise_ list of some of his more inovative and/or interesting works
>favorite/essential recordings?

-Wagner
>an expertly directed overatures/preludes CD
>a great recording of Siegfried Idyll
>ok... but only if i _realy_ must; which 1 maybe 2 operas would be best?
>didn't he write a symphony or somthing?

and then thirdly after that, some other composers of the MID romantic---
(Bruckner? Franck? Moussorgsky? Smetena? and i forgot Tchaikovsky?)

Dvorak, Mahler, Sibelius, Ravel and other such late romantics i will hold off on, and save for another thread, (which i will be awaiting with eager anticipation)

hope i didn't make this post too long- ok ready.set.go!


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Melvin said:


> -Wagner
> >an expertly directed overatures/preludes CD
> >a great recording of Siegfried Idyll
> >ok... but only if i _realy_ must; which 1 maybe 2 operas would be best?
> >didn't he write a symphony or somthing?


1. I have Karajan conducting some orchestral excerpts. Works for me.
2. Don't have one.
3. Yes, you must. I'd say you should get the Solti Ring, the Furtwängler or the Böhm Tristan and a Meistersinger of some kind. I have Karajan's Meistersinger, but I'm sure other people will have better suggestions.
4. Yes. It's an early piece.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Melvin said:


> first I want this thread to focus primarily on brahms
> -Brahms
> >A _fully comprehensive_ list of his greatest compositions! (I really like his music)
> >Which are favorite/essential recordings?
> >Suggest a great recording for violin sonata no. 1?


It's difficult to single out works by Brahms because - if you like him to begin with - he doesn't usually go wrong. Everything is masterful. But, to mention the biggest of the big, you'd be looking at:

1. _All_ four symphonies; 3rd and 4th if you have to be picky.
2. _Ein Deutsches Requiem_, which, for whatever reasons, is usually labelled his magnum opus along with Symphony No. 4.
3. _All_ of the concertos (2 x Piano, Violin, and Double for Violin & Cello).
4. The late _Klavierstucke_ (Op. 116-119).
5. Out of all the sublime chamber works, perhaps worth special mention are the Piano and Clarinet Quintets.

6. Just for fun, throw in the Hungarian Dances!

In terms of recordings for those, as people know I like Haitink (either LSO or RCO) for the symphonies; Rattle for the Requiem (BPO); concertos vary, but I particularly like Ashkenazy for the 2nd Piano Concerto; Kovacevich for Klavierstucke (though I'm not settled on this as the best); and I have Leif Ove Andsnes and Martin Frost for the two quintets respectively. I won't bother going into depth about why I like all these recordings - it's taste!


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

For Brahms, absolutely get the Violin Concerto! I especially recommend the one with Henryk Szeryng! Really wonderful! You can get it in a set with the Double Concerto and his 4 Symphonies with Haitink conducting at a really good price. http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Symp...MYWM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318381994&sr=8-1 It also contains the Variations on a Theme by Haydn (which I really really like), the Hungarian Dances, the 2 Piano Concertos (with Arrau), and other orchestral pieces.

I also like his 3 Piano Trios. I have the versions with Rubinstein, Szeryng, and Fournier. They're great! (they won a Grammy for this, apparently)


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

Brahms essentials:

Symphonies 1-4 (Mackerras recording)
Violin Concerto (Hahn/Marriner)
Piano Concerts 1 and 2 (Freire/Chailly)
Clarinet Quintet (Meyer/Chung)
Horn Trio (Greer)
Serenades 1 and 2 (Mackerras)

Yes the Franck Symphony is a MUST as well as Smetana's Ma Vlast and Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

Brahms was a very prolific writer of vocal music, and I find that it gets unjustly neglected. It is amongst my favorite music of all!

Nänie, Op.82 -In my opinion, the most beautiful work he ever wrote.
Alto Rhapsody, Op.53 -There is no single work which reveals more of Brahms the man than Alto Rhapsody.
Schicksalslied (Song of Destiny), Op.54
Gesang der Parzen (Song of the Fates), Op.89
Liebestreu, Op.3 No.1 -The very first song he published.
Wie Melodien zieht es mir, Op.105 No.1

And of course...
Wiegenlied, Op.49 No.4

Abbado's recording of Nänie is my No.1 recommendation.


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi Melvin. Greetings from about 8 km away!

First of all, with your tinnitus, I wouldn't recommend any Schumann...

I would like to recommend a couple of other composers of the period. First of all, Cesar Franck wrote one symphony, string quartet, violin sonata, and a sort-of piano concerto called the Symphonic Variations. All are excellent. He also wrote some really sublime organ music.

Ernest Chausson also wrote one of a lot of stuff - a symphony, sort-of violin concerto called the Poeme, a wonderful tone-poem/short song cycle called _La poeme de l'amour et de la mer_, an opera - _Le roi Arthus_, songs, and a strange chamber piece for piano, solo violin, and string quartet.

How to describe Franck? Sort of a restrained French Wagnerian. How to describe Chausson? Sort of a precursor to Debussy, or a French Delius.


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

Allrighty thanks guys- some of these Brahms pieces that i'd missed, I will certainly be looking into! Particularly the vocal pieces; I never would have considered them, truthfully.

How about some Wagner? Bring on these Operas- I'm ready for it now!
what might a well-versed Wagner listener suggest?

and Liszt?

also, if anyone could suggest any other great and worthy compositions by some of the lesser known composers of the period- that'd be muchly apreciated!



waldvogel said:


> First of all, with your tinnitus, I wouldn't recommend any Schumann...


 why not Schumann?


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Melvin said:


> also, if anyone could suggest any other great and worthy compositions by some of the lesser known composers of the period- that'd be muchly apreciated!


Not a lesser known composer although you haven't mentioned him yet: Berlioz! Wagner and Liszt considered him to be the third great progressive composer of the time along with themselves. At his best he is a real genius; note the slow introductions to his first two symphonies. He was also probably the best orchestrator in history. At least one of the best, anyway.










If you want recordings the same Harold in Italie I posted (Davis/LSO) and the Davis/VPO Symphonie Fantastique are generally seen as the benchmarks I believe.

Listening to the whole Requiem on a computer won't do it justice so here's the iconic part to give you a taster (it's not all like this though!):






There used to be a great live recording of it on Youtube, the size of the forces he called for look ridiculous. There was fantastic shot of twelve French horns sitting in a line, almost fading in to the distance.

He also wrote a monster of a grand opera of almost Wagnerian proportions called Les Troyens which seems to be extremely well regarded though I've never seen it, and a beautiful song cycle 'Les Nuits d'Ete'.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Melvin said:


> How about some Wagner? Bring on these Operas- I'm ready for it now!
> what might a well-versed Wagner listener suggest?


Go for a jog. Take a nice, hot shower. Get a glass of ice-cold water. Meditate, breathe, and let yourself sink into complete relaxation.

A new chapter in your life is soon to unfold. Later today, I change your life forever (but right now, I have to go mow the lawn).


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Melvin said:


> why not Schumann?


Schumann would be perfect but he should probably be considered early romantic.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Melvin said:


> How about some Wagner? Bring on these Operas- I'm ready for it now!
> what might a well-versed Wagner listener suggest?


The Solti Ring. The Furtwängler Tristan. The Karajan Meistersinger. Wesendonck Lieder with Flagstad.


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

I thought you might have known about Schumann and tinnitis, but...

As he was descending into his final stage of madness, Schumann constantly complained that he was hearing a high-pitched note - he thought it was an A. Shortly afterwards, he tried to drown himself, but was rescued and then institutionalized for the last three years of his life.


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

I peeked ahead a little bit - checked out this debussy quartet - !!! _amazing,_ eek cant wait..
i cant skip this part of the evolution just yet though:
forum, what are your favorite string quartets of the mid-romantic era?

..berlioz, wagner, franck... how about bruckner? is he any good?....how bout this guy 'sullivan' from england?


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## jdavid (Oct 4, 2011)

For Brahms I will side-step the obvious symphonic/concerto literature and suggest the Clarinet Quintet in B minor, Op. 115 of 1891. It is highly prized in all corners.There are numerous fine recordings, This is one (the clarinetist is Ivan Mozgovenko).


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2011)

Camille Saint-Saens is the hidden backbone of the Romantic era. Everything else is either pre-SS or post-SS. SS is the north star. Very strong in both chamber and orchestral areas.

Edit: check out the 2nd Piano Trio (1892) and the 2nd Cello Sonata (1905).

Edit2: not saying he's the best, just that he's the best midpoint.


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