# Beethoven - Symphony No. 1



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece? What are the best recordings? Here below the recording of Claudio Abbado.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

That Abbado/BPO recording is smooth, pretty slick...my faves are Reiner, and best of all, Toscanini/NBC...has a most boisterous energy and vitality....


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Excellent, yet my least enjoyed Beethoven symphony. Favorite recordings so far: Bernstein/VPO, Toscanini/NBCSO, Gardiner/ORR.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Great music - extremely fun to play, too. Favorite recording: Paavo Jarvi on RCA with his Bremen chamber orchestra. The SACD is remarkably clear and the conducting is just joyous.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

HansZimmer said:


> What are the best recordings?


Difficult. There are plenty of recordings with various approaches. Some recording can be good for you because you like the approach, but the implementation can be bad or vice versa.

I like Furtwängler 1952, Karajan 1953, Klemperer 1957, Bernstein 1977 (the intro to the finale is unique!), Harnoncourt 1990. Gardiner 1991 and Paavo Järvi 2006.

It goes without saying that the approaches are diverging ...


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Symphony No. 1 is a quaint "Hi, how are ya, I can do THAT" Symphony. I think he was just writing a "nice" little Symphony that conformed to all the rules, just to prove how easy that was for him.

By the Second Symphony he was already tinkering with the format (changing the minuet to a scherzo), and inserting so many innovative musical tricks that many critics of the time despised. 

But Beethoven was just getting started . . . .


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

pianozach said:


> Symphony No. 1 is a quaint "Hi, how are ya, I can do THAT" Symphony. I think he was just writing a "nice" little Symphony that conformed to all the rules, just to prove how easy that was for him.
> 
> By the Second Symphony he was already tinkering with the format (changing the minuet to a scherzo), and inserting so many innovative musical tricks that many critics of the time despised.
> 
> But Beethoven was just getting started . . . .


Actually, music scholars actually say that the 3rd movement of the first symphony is a scherzo in all but name. They also admit that the 3rd movement is the only innovative movement, but just so you know


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

My favourite recording is Chailly/Gewandhaus, but the above Abbado recording, Gardiner, Nézet-Séguin and Toscanini will do as well


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## prlj (10 mo ago)

pianozach said:


> I think he was just writing a "nice" little Symphony that conformed to all the rules,


The first 12 bars or so would like to have a word...


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

William Steinberg and the Pittsburgers do it very nicely on their DG set.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

The Beethoven First Symphony is probably the one symphony I've listened to the most. It's a favorite piece and a delightful symphony. I sometimes think that had this been the _only_ symphony he had ever composed, Beethoven would _still_ be known as a great symphonist.

I remain awed by the opening of this work: the near-dissonant chord of the first measure that seemingly thumbs the nose at, while at the same time paying deep homage to, the composer's predecessors and quickly launches into the mantra "I am Beethoven, and I have something new to say." That mantra never stops playing, from the first symphony's opening measure through the Ninth Symphony and through to the very end of Beethoven's compositions.in all genres.

I often judge the strength of a box set of the Beethoven symphonies by how enthusiastically the First Symphony is performed. This is, at the very least, a work of extreme optimism, promise, and joy. I can't say I have found any of the Beethoven Firsts in my collection to be off-putting by any means (except that the recording included in the 87 CD mega-set _Beethoven - Complete Works / Das Gesamtwerk_ from [email protected] Classics (02200)










is missing that critical first measure. The movement begins with the second measure. I suppose the box set is more accurately titled: _Complete Works minus a Measure / Das Gesamtwerk ohne einen Takt_.) Still, the performance is rousing. (I tend to enjoy early Beethoven performed by less accomplished musicians. I sort of think that's the way most folks in the composer's own day heard the music performed. The orchestra here is the Norddeutsche Philharmonie conducted by Eugen Duvier. Neither orchestra nor conductor are familiar names to me.)

Were I to recommend a First to a newcomer, I'd suggest the recording by Rudolf Kempe and the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra, available (all the better) in the fine box set _The Nine Symphonies_ on Disky Classics (DB 707082).










This one's a real favorite of mine.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

HansZimmer said:


> How do you rate this piece? What are the best recordings? Here below the recording of Claudio Abbado.


The piece ... A "great" first symphony, following some patterns of Haydn. Beethoven showed that he can write a big symphony. He is not too idiosyncratic, as compared to piano sonatas op. 10/3 or op. 13.

But not all in all aspects he is following the known patterns ... take the third movement, for instance, which is maybe most "Beethoven" in op. 21.

Among first symphonies, it is just great imho (Schubert, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, ...).

I do not use the term "best recording" for a complex piece. Complex music allows many approaches, so there can be no "best". In particular, one single recording of a complex piece can never unfold all its abundance.

You didn't say whether you maybe already have 20 recordings and are now looking for the king of the hill or whether you are looking for one or two recordings to get closer to the piece.

If you have no recording so far, there is (almost) no importance, with which recording to start. Choose a big name, Karajan, Bernstein, Abbado, Gardiner, Chailly, Wand, Blomstedt, and you will get a very good recording. The differences between recordings will be the more tangible the better you know the piece.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

It's a good symphony but far from my favorites (nos. 5, 7, and 9).


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

It's considerably less conventional than often claimed. The 3rd movement is at least as much "full scherzo" as the corresponding movement of the 2nd and I am not aware of a similar movement by Haydn or Mozart that shows that particular "drive" of typical scherzi (whereas 2,iii is not that far from Haydn's 99,iii). It's on a comparably small and comic scale on purpose but there are lots of details that show Beethoven's individuality. The beginning/intro of i) is the most famous, so is the intro of the finale, a "Haydnesque" joke, only this was never done by Haydn. The coda of the first movement is "too large" for the rest and one rather Beethovenian moment.
Tbh despite all this, it's not a huge favorite of mine (I voted "very good") but it's one of the first pieces I went through in some details as a teenager with a score + commentary and I learned a lot in appreciating details and originality in pieces that might seem unassuming for a "naive"/beginning listeners.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Love the finale, bubbly and fun just like the finale of Haydn's 88th. I'll give Karajan's 1977 recording my stamp of approval (not to ignite any Karajan-related controversy here... my avatar should give another hint as to my feelings about Karajan). The First and Second are in everyone's Beethoven cycles but are obviously overshadowed by everything afterwards; it was only relatively recently that I started to appreciate these first two symphonies.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

EvaBaron said:


> Actually, music scholars actually say that the 3rd movement of the first symphony is a scherzo in all but name. They also admit that the 3rd movement is the only innovative movement, but just so you know


Don't the Minuets in Haydn's Op 77 string quartets (the last ones he wrote) sound like scherzi?


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I voted for "Very Good." I have not listened to enough recordings to say what my favorite are; for the time being, it's Gardiners.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

SONNET CLV said:


> The Beethoven First Symphony is probably the one symphony I've listened to the most...
> 
> I remain awed by the opening of this work: the near-dissonant chord of the first measure that seemingly thumbs the nose at, while at the same time paying deep homage to, the composer's predecessors and quickly launches into the mantra "I am Beethoven, and I have something new to say." ....
> 
> ...


Well, the piano sonatas in this box is even worse edited with whole movements missing and others cut short, so one bar missing in the first symphony seems a small thing. 

Eugen Duvier doesn't exist. The name is a pseudonyme, but nowhere have I seen the name of the actual conductor.

Budget recordings of Alfred Scholz - MusicBrainz Wiki


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

I voted' "Good".

I enjoy Chailly/Gewandhaus Orchestra, and love Fischer/Danish Chamber Orchestra.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

Very good, only because the Third was yet to come, so it's a comparative thing with Beethoven's later symphonies. My favorite recording, as with the whole Beethoven symphony cycle, is Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Symphony No. 1 is a quaint "Hi, how are ya, I can do THAT" Symphony. I think he was just writing a "nice" little Symphony that conformed to all the rules, just to prove how easy that was for him.


There _are_ some novelties in this symphony (nobody yet cited the pronounced use of woodwinds in it for example), but overall I agree with your assessment.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Beethoven scherzo movements also tend to have codas at the end, something minuet movements of the previous era lack (except maybe some M Haydn stuff, the 18th, 33rd, for ex.)


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Philidor said:


> If you have no recording so far, there is (almost) no importance, with which recording to start. Choose a big name, Karajan, Bernstein, Abbado, Gardiner, Chailly, Wand, Blomstedt, and you will get a very good recording. The differences between recordings will be the more tangible the better you know the piece.


I have *János Ferencsik* with the Hungarian Philharmonic Orchestra.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

prlj said:


> The first 12 bars or so would like to have a word...



Ok maybe starting out with a I7 chord was groundbreaking, maybe not.  I wouldn't call it some sort of breathtaking dissonance. 💥

I7 - IV, V7 - vi, II7 - - - V, V7 . . . and he wanders around a bit before finally hitting the tonic. Cue the hounds, and we're off to the races. Accidentals? Nah, who needs 'em. C major is dandy.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

pianozach said:


> I wouldn't call it some sort of breathtaking dissonance.


From our perspective, after Sacre and other things, no.

From the 1800 perspective - do you know another piece from this time that starts in some other key than the key of the piece?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Philidor said:


> From our perspective, after Sacre and other things, no.
> 
> From the 1800 perspective - do you know another piece from this time that starts in some other key than the key of the piece?


Can't think of any, but I could swear Mozart had already done it.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

pianozach said:


> Can't think of any, but I could swear Mozart had already done it.


You could discuss the string quartet C major KV 465.

It starts with a repeated C in the cello, and on "3" in the first bar there occurs an A-flat which does not belong to C major.

However, it is not on the very first note as with Beethoven's op. 21, which starts in F major (de facto).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

pianozach said:


> Ok maybe starting out with a I7 chord was groundbreaking, maybe not.  I wouldn't call it some sort of breathtaking dissonance. 💥 I7 - IV, V7 - vi, II7 - - - V, V7 . . .


I believe I7 is not really a chord functional in the Classical idiom. It's more like V7/IV.
V7/IV - IV , V7 - vi ....
(EDIT: the same goes for what you denoted as II7. It's actually V7/V)



Philidor said:


> From the 1800 perspective - do you know another piece from this time that starts in some other key than the key of the piece?


https://www.cmpcp.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/PSN2011_Chueke.pdf "The very first intriguing aspect we encounter is the non-establishment of any specific tonality, due to the absence not only of a key signature but also of a central tonality which would justify the allusion to C minor in the title." "The same can be said about any of the numerous other tonalities suggested during the piece: none of them is sufficiently present to the point of being considered the tonic key." "the confirmation of C minor as the main key is held until the end of the piece"


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

The first larger orchestral work I got to know was precisely Beethovens first symphony (in Ferenc Fricsay's recording) and I have kept a great affection for it and also for the recording. However my favorite Beethoven symphony today is no. four.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

premont said:


> ... However my favorite Beethoven symphony today is no. four.


Mine too, along with the 8th. I think those two have been really underrated.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> I believe I7 is not really a chord functional in the Classical idiom. It's more like V7/IV.
> V7/IV - IV , V7 - vi ....
> 
> 
> ...


That was lovely. Funny how *Mozart* danced from key to key, settling on one for awhile, but suddenly off to another.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

premont said:


> The first larger orchestral work I got to know was precisely Beethovens first symphony (in Ferenc Fricsay's recording) and I have kept a great affection for it and also for the recording. However my favorite Beethoven symphony today is no. four.





Yabetz said:


> Mine too, along with the 8th. I think those two have been really underrated.


Do you have favorite recordings of Beethoven's #4? If yes, could you please tell me which?


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

Xisten267 said:


> Do you have favorite recordings for Beethoven's #4? If yes, could you please share them here?


Mine would be either the aforementioned Blomstedt or Karajan/BPO.

By the way: OK, who voted "Horrible"?


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

One of my three favorite Beethoven symphonies (with 5 and 9). Szell/Cleveland my preferred performance.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Xisten267 said:


> Do you have favorite recordings of Beethoven's #4? If yes, could you please tell me which?


In casual order:

Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Charles Mackerras 

New York Philharmonic Orchestra, Bruno Walter

Philharmonia Orchestra, Otto Klemperer

Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus Harnoncourt

Czech Philharmonic Orchestra, Paul Kletzki

Orchestra di Padova e del Veneto, Peter Maag


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Love love love this symphony. (who the **** voted "horrible?).

One of my favourite, and lesser known, recordings of this wonderful symphony


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> I believe I7 is not really a chord functional in the Classical idiom. It's more like V7/IV.
> V7/IV - IV , V7 - vi ....
> 
> 
> ...


the opening is a bit of a quiescenza - a stock pattern with b7-6-7-1 melodic line over a tonic pedal. The bass line is different, but listeners would have been familiar with a V/IV IV V I pattern at the start of symphonies (of course no one, including Beethoven, used the Roman numeral terminology) the difference here is starting right at the V/IV rather than I and not using the tonic pedal then the deceptive cadence to vi













__





Quiescenza – Counterpoint Resources






musictheory.sites.gettysburg.edu




here is more info on the galant quiescenza


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

The symphony was not perceived as "groundbreaking" but neither as "business as usual".* Early reviews especially mentioned (sometimes complained about) the dominance of woodwinds, difficulty and originality of details. Only after the Eroica the more conservative reviewers wished for more pieces like the first two symphonies and likened them to Haydn and Mozart.

*I don't know if any Beethoven piece was received as "business as usual" when it was new. There is a review of the violin sonatas op.12 that complains about "overly learned", "no songfulness", "like tedious crawling through dense shrubbery" and other things one can barely understand the reasons for today.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Good. It only got better from there.


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## starcat (6 mo ago)

Not his best symphony but still very good though. I've only heard the Chailly/Gewandhaus and Karajan/VPO versions so far and of those I prefer the Chailly.


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

Philidor said:


> I do not use the term "best recording" for a complex piece. Complex music allows many approaches, so there can be no "best". In particular, one single recording of a complex piece can never unfold all its abundance.
> 
> You didn't say whether you maybe already have 20 recordings and are now looking for the king of the hill or whether you are looking for one or two recordings to get closer to the piece.
> 
> If you have no recording so far, there is (almost) no importance, with which recording to start. Choose a big name, Karajan, Bernstein, Abbado, Gardiner, Chailly, Wand, Blomstedt, and you will get a very good recording. The differences between recordings will be the more tangible the better you know the piece.


The purpose is to ask what is your favourite recording, but someone can give the recording which is closer to the intepretation originally intended by the composer.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Two of my favourite recordings


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

EvaBaron said:


> Actually, music scholars actually say that the 3rd movement of the first symphony is a scherzo in all but name. They also admit that the 3rd movement is the only innovative movement, but just so you know


Baby steps.

Symphony No. 3 a giant leap.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

HansZimmer said:


> The purpose is to ask what is your favourite recording, but someone can give the recording which is closer to the intepretation originally intended by the composer.


How do you know Beethoven wouldn't have loved differing interpretations? In his time, the standard of orchestral playing was much lower-- there weren't even permanently constituted orchestras IIRC-- so the vast majority of the performances now probably sound better than the earliest performances.

Different interpretations can also bring out different aspects of the work. I've listened to Dohnanyi/Cleveland, Karajan 1962, Gardiner/ORR, and Kletzki. These four are fine recordings, two old-school, one HIP influenced modern, one period instrument performance.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Probably Zinman/Tonhalle, although I also have Barenboim/Divan, Gardiner/ORR and Toscanini/NBC


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## DirkM (Aug 1, 2021)

Probably my favourite Beethoven symphony, with the 7th a close second. Joyous, tuneful, and endlessly listenable. I like pretty much every recording I've heard...for some reason, Szell's is the only one I can't get into.


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