# I Don't like Don Giovanni-HELP!



## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

I know that that statement is almost impossible. The opera's stature being what it is.

Any good anti-biotic recordings that can help cure me? (I like faster versions)

I am also allergic to improvisation, so Jacobs is out.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

my very favourite (Siepi!):






you might just _not_ like DG. It's allowed, you know? I don't like (yet?) Idomeneo and the Flute ain't doing much for me either and I'm a big Mozart fan.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I recently got the filmed version directed by Joseph Losey and enjoyed it from beginning to end. It is a little bit of a darker take on the story than normal, but it works very well. It's out on bluray with fantastic sound.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

First and foremost the 'instrumental' side of the opera should be clinging in on your soul, and that feat is done by Harnoncourt & Concertgebouw Orchestra. Just when the blows come hitting in from the STATUE and Harnoncourt happens to leave out all stage-sounds and does it all within the means of the orchestra *alone*, well, that's the moment I'm sinking through the floor. Secondly the voices. There I'm walking side by side through heav'n and hell with Thomas Hampson, but Il Commendatore (Robert Holl) doesn't leave any crack on my hearing. So there is the problem to get it all right, voices & orchestra. Once you get Gottlob Frick, you get an orchestra that is unable to stir the dust out of your ears. But Harnoncourt is getting quite far indeed !


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

What don't you like about it? I thought this one which was posted here some time ago was a very engaging, exciting and alive version. Don't know if it has been released commercially though.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Notung, no offense but kill yourself. That statement is heartbreaking.

In this sub-forum some things should be prohibited and that's one.

(nevermind what i'm saying. It's the alcohol)


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

deggial said:


> my very favourite (Siepi!):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I went to the cinema and saw this ,it was the first opera I saw.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Notung said:


> I know that that statement is almost impossible. The opera's stature being what it is.
> 
> Any good anti-biotic recordings that can help cure me? (I like faster versions)
> 
> I am also allergic to improvisation, so Jacobs is out.


What do you mean you like faster versions,you said you didn't like it.
But so what,do you like other Mozart operas ?


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

I didn't clarify, sorry.

I mean that I would prefer Mozart (any piece by Mozart) to go quickly, almost dance-like (but with restraint at those profound moments the composer was so apt to pepper throughout otherwise fun music). I think it's the slow conducting that many recordings have that is keeping me away.

I like how briskly Leinsdorf did the overture, but I haven't heard that recording in its entirety.


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

To answer your question,

I love the Magic Flute.

Figaro...I haven't finished it, but I like what I've heard.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Notung said:


> I didn't clarify, sorry.
> 
> I mean that I would prefer Mozart (any piece by Mozart) to go quickly, almost dance-like (but with restraint at those profound moments the composer was so apt to pepper throughout otherwise fun music). I think it's the slow conducting that many recordings have that is keeping me away.
> 
> I like how briskly Leinsdorf did the overture, but I haven't heard that recording in its entirety.


WHATEVER YOU DO AVOID THIS DIRGE-LIKE HORROR!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Notung said:


> To answer your question,
> 
> I love the Magic Flute.
> 
> Figaro...I haven't finished it, but I like what I've heard.


Well that's OK maybe "Don Giovanni" will grow on you,if you want a good laugh try "Die Entfuhrung".


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't know about the music, but I'm fond of the character. I was recently at a performance where the Don was played as a man plagued by guilt and self-doubt. Not for a minute! Here's what he REALLY looks like!


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

moody said:


> Well that's OK maybe "Don Giovanni" will grow on you,if you want a good laugh try "Die Entfuhrung".


I always wanted to hear Entfuhrung, any recommendations for recordings?


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

I always liked Karajan. I did hear his recording was a bore.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Notung said:


> I always liked Karajan. I did hear his recording was a bore.


It was a severe disappointment to me. I looked at the cast list and thought "woo-hoo", but then when I heard it, it was sooo slooow and ponderous and just lost all the fun and sparkle. Thank goodness it was only from the library.


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## Glissando (Nov 25, 2011)

Notung, I agree with you about the speed of Mozart's operas. Mozart's arias should flow along with a rhythmic zest, even sound danceable at times. Obviously the slower ones like 'Ach ich fuhls' and 'Batti, batti' will be taken with a slower gracefulness, but all too often I have heard slow, listless performances of bouncy tunes like 'Crudel, perche finora,' and it makes me sad. An example (I know it's not from Don Giovanni, but it pertains to the discussion):

Here are two great opera singers who are wasted in a performance of this aria that sounds like it's walking through quicksand:






And here is a performance played at a much more effective speed, which truly brings out the brilliance of the music:


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

I also dislike Don Giovanni


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Notung said:


> I always liked Karajan. I did hear his recording was a bore.


I try to avoid speaking of him.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Notung said:


> I always wanted to hear Entfuhrung, any recommendations for recordings?


On CD I have the classic Josef Krips version with Lucia Popp,Nicolai Gedda and the blackest bass Gottlob Frick.
Also the wonderful Beecham recording which is temporarily off the catalogues.
If you are after DVDs I don't have one but looking at the suppliers' lists there are some interesting issues.

DG. Araiza,Gruberova,Grist. cond:Boehm.
VAI. Ingeborg Hallstein, Luigi Alva,cond :Mehta.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Glissando said:


> Notung, I agree with you about the speed of Mozart's operas. Mozart's arias should flow along with a rhythmic zest, even sound danceable at times. Obviously the slower ones like 'Ach ich fuhls' and 'Batti, batti' will be taken with a slower gracefulness, but all too often I have heard slow, listless performances of bouncy tunes like 'Crudel, perche finora,' and it makes me sad. An example (I know it's not from Don Giovanni, but it pertains to the discussion):
> 
> Here are two great opera singers who are wasted in a performance of this aria that sounds like it's walking through quicksand:
> 
> ...


What a strange verdict,the Boehm version with DFD is far superior and with feeling. The other, whoever they are, is without feeling and just bowling along expressing nothing---and what's with the rolling around on the floor ?


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I don't know about the music, but I'm fond of the character. I was recently at a performance where the Don was played as a man plagued by guilt and self-doubt. Not for a minute! Here's what he REALLY looks like!


If you like a fast pace Don, very lively as Don is heading at full speed toward his demise, Giulini is definitely the one to get unlike Muti's set which is very brisk, may be more restless and does not seem to go anywhere. 
I rather like Karajan's set but prefer the DVD version from Salzburg with almost identical cast except for Varady instead of Baltza. May be because his was the first set of Don Giovanni that I listened to and came to love and is probably still the recording I come back for the most for Don! I would like Giulini better but I just don't like Waechter and Taddei. They were a much better pair in Figaro also with Giulini, for me at least.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

moody said:


> WThe other, whoever they are, is without feeling and just bowling along expressing nothing---and what's with the rolling around on the floor ?


Whoever they are? Excuse me, but that is Peter Mattei, the operatic love of my life.

Whoever they are, indeed.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

moody said:


> and what's with the rolling around on the floor ?


it's one of the signs of regie


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whoever they are? Excuse me, but that is Peter Mattei, the operatic love of my life.
> 
> Whoever they are, indeed.


Well ,you know I'm not up on contemporary singers. But his efforts there are not convincing,


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> I don't know about the music, but I'm fond of the character. I was recently at a performance where the Don was played as a man plagued by guilt and self-doubt. Not for a minute! Here's what he REALLY looks like!


This version I know too, but the orchestral bite is missing IMO: I want the hear the abyss opening up !!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

You do know it is perfectly O.K. to not care for any particular piece, regardless of its stature?


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Gardiner on cd has the same supberb cast as on that legendary holland festival performance. It has te fast tempi you're looking for.

On Dvd I recommend Glyndebourne with Jurovsky conducting .


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tempi certainly have something to do with it. One quality I think needed in all Mozart I would name as buoyancy -- without exception, slow movement, fast movement, tempo of this aria or that -- and regardless of whom he was conducting, Karl Böhm always seemed to manage to bring that quality to all the Mozart he conducted.

If the buoyancy is there, the tempi will not annoy.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> Whoever they are? Excuse me, but that is Peter Mattei, the operatic love of my life.
> 
> Whoever they are, indeed.


I'm sorry,I wouldn't want to crush love's sweet dream.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Tempi certainly have something to do with it. One quality I think needed in all Mozart I would name as buoyancy -- without exception, slow movement, fast movement, tempo of this aria or that -- and regardless of whom he was conducting, Karl Böhm always seemed to manage to bring that quality to all the Mozart he conducted.
> 
> If the buoyancy is there, the tempi will not annoy.


I can recommend this version with Böhm conducting and Sherrill Milnes (my baritone god) in the title role.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

moody said:


> Well ,you know I'm not up on contemporary singers. But his efforts there are not convincing,


Well, I will admit that this particular clip is not stellar because the direction of this (and the whole opera) is so weird. It's Le Nozze set in some kind of shop with the count as the owner. I think it is probably hard to sing with great finesse and emotion when you are having to dance and twirl at the same time.


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

How about Davis on Phillips?

Fricsay on DG?


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Fricsay's version is great, too -- Fischer-Dieskau in the title role, Sena Jurinac as Donna Anna, Ernst Haefliger as Don Ottavio, and Irmgard Seefried as Zerlina.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

It was unfair to post this plea for help while Wimbledon was on. My Wolfgang antennae were off. Of course, it isn't forbidden to dislike even Mozart, and I have a small confession to make: I didn't like DG at first, either.

But I rose above that. The key was the Giulini recording which KenOC displayed three pages back. I got the colour of the orchestra from that one. Also, I went straight to the ballroom scene at the finale of act 1. Three different orchestras playing different tempos at the same time? Whatever, but the singing was marvelous. Hooking. Saintly and holy while the Don was attempting rape! It's a ravishing score. Wind and string all finding the mark. The terzetto at the start of act 2: a nocturne that both sounds deliciously romantic and mocks romantic sounds _at the same time_.

In fact, there's about a 17 minute build-up to the end of the first act, uninterrupted music that's apt for the drama, perfect for the comedy - but you will sing it for years. "Presto presto..."

From the start, however, to the end, it's got a knifes-edge tension to it, amid the comedy. This is what rises it even above Figaro for me. Figaro is more perfect, because the music is unassailable, but Don Giovanni is more dramatic, and where Figaro ends in reconciliation, Don Giovanni ends in flames and punishment. Forget the ballroom scene - just go straight to the end and you'll hear what a dark power this opera unleashed. Goethe asked: "how can anyone say that Mozart composed this Don Giovanni? It is a spiritual creation, the detail, like the whole, made by one mind in one mould and shot through by the breath of life...[Mozart] was bidden by the daemon of his genius to do what he did."

It's impossible to find words for it, but having started out like you and not liked it at first, it's addictive, a force of nature, a wild thing...you'll love it eventually if you give it time, I'm sure of it!


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Kieran said:


> In fact, there's about a 17 minute build-up to the end of the first act, uninterrupted music that's apt for the drama, perfect for the comedy - but you will sing it for years. "Presto presto..."


agreed, it's a very good start for the DG novice. I started there myself and still enjoy listening to the Act I finale as a separate entity (for pure entertainment  I never even think about how many different orchestras play how many different dances at once).


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

The Giulini KenOC is pointing to is not just the best Don Giovanni, it's one of the best operas on record.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

bigshot said:


> The Giulini KenOC is pointing to is not just the best Don Giovanni, it's one of the best operas on record.


I found it on Spotify. I got put off because of the presence of Sutherland, but I think I can just about stand her in this.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Kieran said:


> I didn't like DG at first, either.


When I first heard the Commendatore sing "Don Giovanni, a cenar teco M'invitasti e son venuto!" I was completely overwhelmed. (It was from "Amadeus") I got a CD (Karajan... yes the one you should never get as a first listening!) from the local library and listened for the first time to the whole opera. This was all 100% new to me. And I loved it. My parents got a little worried about my obsession...

What is it about the Commendatore scene that makes it so special? Well, it is supernatural. So is Magic Flute, but the music is different, Magic Flute doesn't have that utterly dark, frightening music. In his instrumental works there are many works in the minor mode, some also dark, but they never get the same intensity.



Kieran said:


> It's impossible to find words for it, but having started out like you and not liked it at first, it's addictive, a force of nature, a wild thing...you'll love it eventually if you give it time, I'm sure of it!


Yes, you said it!

Just a thought... suppose Mozart lived 5 years more... Would he have gotten back to that dark mood of Don Giovanni ?


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

deggial said:


> I never even think about how many different orchestras play how many different dances at once).


This part is Mozart showing of what he is capable of, it is food for musicologists, just like the finale of Figaro act 2.

There are three dances played, and they are all in different rythm. I like it when the director puts the small ensembles on stage. Needless to say it's also pretty hard to play and to keep it all together. It creates musical tension, just before the Don is getting his hands on Zerlina.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

Dongiovanni said:


> When I first heard the Commendatore sing "Don Giovanni, a cenar teco M'invitasti e son venuto!" I was completely overwhelmed.


ever since I heard the Commendatore, I've been saying *DON GIOVANNI* in that cavernous bass voice (or my approximation of it ).


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## Downbeat (Jul 10, 2013)

I would recommend Solti's 1979 version with the London Philharmonic (Price, Popp, Moll, etc.). Not a popular choice I know, but Solti injects so much life and character into the music, making Gioisvanni (dare I say it)...entertaining. They say it isn't particularly authentic, but who is to judge what authentic style actually is? I am sure Mozart would have liked this sort of life and energy in an interpretation of one of opera buffa.


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## Amagliani (Jul 28, 2013)

Notung said:


> I know that that statement is almost impossible. The opera's stature being what it is.
> 
> Any good anti-biotic recordings that can help cure me? (I like faster versions)
> 
> I am also allergic to improvisation, so Jacobs is out.


Hello, perhaps you haven't yet heard the "true" Don Giovanni. After spending years on end in searching an ideal interpreter, finally I can say I found him, here you may see (and hear) what is it all about - 
http://www.tunnel.ru/view/post:498241

And the protagonist, as you may see on the photo, has not only a voice but also the proper image to be a convincing seducer.
There is a fantastic production from Macerata opera festival, again with Ildebrando D'Arcangelo in the title role, it could be downloaded from here: http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4473256 (the page requires a registration). Of course, it's my opinion but I can say that this has been for years my favourite opera and so I have heard and watched more than 30 renditions but none of them corresponds to my idea of Don Giovanni as this one does. 
I don't know if you have read as well the story by E.T.A.Hoffmann - Don Juan (http://shirtysleeves.blogspot.com/2007/06/translation-of-don-juan-by-e-t-hoffmann.html)
but there it is all described in excellent way. If you haven't read it, it's well worth the effort, for there you'll find out what this opera really is.


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

Happy to report that I now like Don G. The giulini recording helped do that. I still haven't completely warmed up to it, but I now recognize it as a masterpiece.

Thanks guys!


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

It's official... I now find Don G to be the most perfect piece of music. Period.

I now realize what I was missing all that time!!


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

that's the spirit


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## Revenant (Aug 27, 2013)

Yes, you might be a creature of extremes, Notung. But that is often a good thing in opera appreciation (except for extremist extremes, perhaps). I've always liked DG, but it took me a whole lifetime to finally appreciate (or "get", if you will) Wagner. We should enjoy the journey as our tastes grow and develop, or even when they contract and circumscribe too. :lol:


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## drth15 (Dec 12, 2007)

Colin Davis' recording from the 70s is not the prettiest, but it blazes through the work with complete conviction,


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## Amagliani (Jul 28, 2013)

One of the greatest operas ever written and
the most charming Don Giovanni

First Act:





Second Act:


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Didn't know this one was completely on youtube. Thanks !


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## JCarmel (Feb 3, 2013)

I have four Don dvds or video recordings to watch...one, conducted by Muti has Ildebrando d'Arcangelo in the role of Leporello. But it's a rather odd production & visually eccentric. But I do reach for the dvd on occasion just to listen to Michael Schade sing the two most beautiful tenor arias in one opera...Don Ottavio's 'Dalla Sua Pace' & 'Il Mio Tesoro'...liquid gold to mine ear!


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Notung said:


> Any good anti-biotic recordings that can help cure me? (I like faster versions)


done -


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Found this in an article on some things to listen for in this opera:



> Listen once again to the transition which connects the offstage party music supporting Leporello's snide comment about Giovanni and the masked ladies to the maskers' prayer. The strings, in unison, play twelve notes, stepping in quiet jags down a five-note scale, and moving the harmonic center (the tonic) from F major to Bb major. As musical bridges and transitions go, this one is amazing. It's so simple and obvious, and yet so powerful-in its quiet way it manages to weld together two completely opposite pieces of music. Richard Strauss called this transition "the most perfect two bars ever written," and claimed he would have been prouder to have written this moment than all of his own operas.





> The triple dance
> 
> No one had ever written anything even remotely like the famous triple dance sequence before Don Giovanni, and although a few attempts at this kind of thing have been made since, to my knowledge no one has surpassed Mozart's accomplishment. I can't imagine what the effect must have been on that first audience: was this music, or chaos? Our closest modern equivalent might be three radios in the same room, each turned to a different channel. Clearly, Mozart enjoyed the technical challenge of writing a piece featuring three different onstage bands all playing at the same time, with different rhythms, and yet harmonizing together accurately. But the three dances are also part of the story. Anna and Ottavio are dancing the upper-class minuet. Giovannierrant nobleman that he isdances the middle-class contredanse with the upwardly mobile peasant girl Zerlina. But she is reluctant to dance with Giovanni, and when Masetto goes to help her, Leporello grabs him as the third band strikes up the raucous jig. Leporello and Masetto's clumsy grappling makes a buffoonish counterpoint to the more serious dances performed by their social betters. And as the triple dance devolves into chaos, Giovanni forces Zerlina offstage and attempts to have his way with her.





> Fugal demasking
> 
> After Ottavio pulls the gun on Giovanni, one by one the three nobles take off their masks, singing, each in turn, "L'empio crede con tal frode..." Notice how they make their musical entrances in the form of a fugue: each sings the same melody, but starts on a different note. The effect onstage can actually be a little cute. But a similar thing happens a few seconds later, as all five aggrieved characters sing "Tutto, tutto già si sa" in turn. With the addition of Zerlina and Masetto, Giovanni is cornered, and this second fugue makes it feel as if the world is swirling around him; everywhere he turns someone he has harmed is coming for vengeance.





> The return of the melodic arch
> 
> Go back and listen to Anna's line from the introduction, "Come furia disperata". Did you recognize that angry tune when it reappeared in this finale? Once again it is sung in a tense moment when an attempted rape doesn't go as Giovanni had planned; we hear it at as the three maskers run around the ballroom slamming doors to prevent Giovanni's escape, and again in the imbroglio proper, when Giovanni's enemies are all ganging up against him. Here Mozart is anticipating a musical device made famous by Richard Wagner, the leitmotif, in which a brief tune acquires some kind of semantic significance as a story-telling device. Leitmotifs are so infrequent in Mozart most musicologists don't bother worrying about them; I mention this one here because it's yet another advanced musical technique that Mozart uses in this amazing Finale long before anyone else had thought of it.
> 
> And this was only the First Act Finale...you'll be amazed what he gets up to in the second one!


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