# Composers who used math to write music?



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Which composers used math to write their music? If any.


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

I believe Xenakis did.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh, please. It would be far more interesting to know of mathematicians who used music to reach new creative heights in the realms of maths.

Iannis Xenakis uses(ed) mathematical formulae and concepts as a basis for his musical structures, as a template for a kind of music, series of events and gestures. Be assured that the ear still made the final choices, and not numbers.

Bartok played with the Golden Section ratio, as in number of bars in a piece and where material changed - though since music is a temporal and linear art there is no longer a 'rectangle' but a linear series of related length ratios....


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

All of them.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Bartok played with the Golden Section ratio, as in number of bars in a piece and where material changed - though since music is a temporal and linear art there is no longer a 'rectangle' but a linear series of related length ratios....


Bartok also played with the Fibonacci sequence in the third movement of his Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Toddlertoddy said:


> Bartok also played with the Fibonacci sequence in the third movement of his Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta


And the first movement is heavily based in the idea of the golden ratio. Its overall form is such a ratio. The overall form is a golden ratio, and each of its sections within it are also golden ratios. Its also very pretty. ^_^


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

PetrB said:


> Oh, please. It would be far more interesting to know of mathematicians who used music to reach new creative heights in the realms of maths.


I'm not sure I understand your comment. Do you mean it would be more interesting because it's almost impossible to imagine mathematicians using music to develop new math whereas it's easy to imagine musicians using math to create new music?



PetrB said:


> Iannis Xenakis uses(ed) mathematical formulae and concepts as a basis for his musical structures, as a template for a kind of music, series of events and gestures. Be assured that the ear still made the final choices, and not numbers.


Do you know if this is true? I have read several rather detailed studies of some of Xenakis' works. In those studies the authors describe the composition process as involving math (and sometimes physics) dictating the music. In several cases he apparently used random number generators. I was never clear if he used the math and physics as a first pass for the music and later modified the music based on his ear. I was under the impression that he did not.

I personally felt that using math (or physics) could be interesting but only if the composer iterated the process to better understand how to use the math better (i.e. to create music that more closely matched the composers desires). I have never known if Xenakis or others did anything along those lines.


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