# Do you like musicals?



## wolkaaa (Feb 12, 2017)

What is your opinion on musicals like _The Phantom of the Opera_?
For me, musicals are childish and vulgar (to say the least).


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I tend to find musicals boring in that I want to leave well before the end.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I like the one's from the past, such as South Pacific, My Fair Lady and West Side Story.

Childish and vulgar? Not even close.

(What I find boring and dull are the endless polls bringing Talk Classical way, way down.)


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I am underwhelmed by some musicals - e.g. The King and I - but I voted 'yes', because there are some musicals that I really love. 

Favourites are Fiddler on the Roof - Seven Brides for Seven Brothers - Yentl - and (dare I admit it? ) The Bells of St Mary's.

PS My Fair Lady and West Side Story are also fab.


----------



## wolkaaa (Feb 12, 2017)

hpowders said:


> I like the one's from the past, such as South Pacific, My Fair Lady and West Side Story.
> 
> Childish and vulgar? Not even close.
> 
> (What I find boring and dull are the endless polls bringing Talk Classical way, way down.)


Offended? Why do you participate in such polls? :lol:


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> I am underwhelmed by some musicals - e.g. The King and I - but I voted 'yes', because there are some musicals that I really love.
> 
> Favourites are Fiddler on the Roof - Seven Brides for Seven Brothers - Yentl - and (dare I admit it? ) The Bells of St Mary's.
> 
> PS My Fair Lady and West Side Story are also fab.


I agree. There are plenty of mediocre musicals around. I never liked The King and I, despite being dragged to see it 3-4 times.

I forgot about Fiddler on the Roof-terrific music and story.

So, South Pacific, West Side Story, My Fair Lady and Fiddler on the Roof-all with terrific emotional stories and music to match!!

Incomparable!!!


----------



## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

I like musicals, they are very good entertainment. Evita is the masterpiece in my opinion. If it were not so expensive I'd be attending every performance and probably not tire of it. The Phantom of the Opera is also very good.

Note: Now I'm curious to see Fiddler on the Roof.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marinera said:


> I like musicals, they are very good entertainment. Evita is the masterpiece in my opinion. If it were not so expensive I'd be attending every performance and probably not tire of it. The Phantom of the Opera is also very good.
> 
> Note: Now I'm curious to see Fiddler on the Roof.


I have a sudden urge to cut a slice of some Velveeta cheese, thanks to your post.

I'm sure the music to Fiddler is on YouTube.


----------



## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Thanks, and I'll check the venues nearby


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Marinera said:


> Thanks, and I'll check the venues nearby


Listen to "Sunrise, Sunset".


----------



## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

West Side Story, my all time favourite!


----------



## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I like musicals (stage and screen) a lot. A couple favorites are Phantom of the Opera and Honk!


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I have some friends that hit the theater every time a new musical comes out. And it seems like every other day a new one pops up. Usually it's "____, The Musical." I don't get it, but chacun à son goût.

I'm not a big fan of musicals in general, the really good ones excepted, though in college I liked to play in the orchestral pit, because in each performance, the actors would do something different to keep from getting bored, and it was fun to be in on the joke.


----------



## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Big fan, yes.......


----------



## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I love _Kismet_. Up-and-coming composer--something, maybe Alexander--Borodin, Russian chap, composed the music. Keep an eye on this one!


----------



## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I have a stong opinion about this. For theatre, the fact that the plot spins around music and explanation is enough for me to tolerate it although I prefer spoken drama. And if it is sung, i-t m-u-s-t b-e o-p-e-r-a. No poppy voices.

But when it comes to cinematography, I find it unforgivable. In my schemes, a plot should never pass its checkpoints on exposition, and if its sung, it becomes worse. There may be great independent films that highlight witty dialogues to the point my head hurts. I strongly prefer action, and the screen writer to create a dialogue between the spectator and the characters through the image composition, the positions, the order of the sequences. That is what editing was made for.

However, as a spin, when I was a kid, and also now that I rewatched them, I'm fond of the Happy Feet films (1 and 2). The music is sometimes cringe-worthy (the boy-soprano in the 2nd film is enraging), but I find the scripts and the filmmaking quite an achievement for family-films. They serve a bunch dark and sexual innuendos I would never catch as a kid.

Another surprise was watching "Moana". The script was fine and it was a princess tale up-to-our-date, but I found the score and soundtrack by Lin-Manuel Miranda surprisingly coherent, catchy and joyful. (Spoiler alert) The "How Far I'll Go" reprise in the final act felt stunning and witty. It surely has been used in other musicals. This was a great example of how music does melt with the plot and gives sense, like a leitmotiv. 

This surely sounds stupid. I already like many operas and of course that one is nothing but a kids film, but I'm not a film geek and I honestly was stunned. I also dislike watching Opera films. I prefer Opera on stage and broadcasted, where it really belongs.


----------



## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Yes I like musicals. West Side Story, Fiddler on the Roof, Oklahoma, South Pacific, Guys and Dolls, My Fair Lady, Oliver, Hair, Grease, and I saw in New York seven years ago, La Cage Aux Folles with Kelsey Grammer and Douglas Hodge, which I thought was terrific. I thought Phantom of the Opera was tedious. If I lived in New York or London I might see more musicals. I saw We Will Rock You, the music of Queen in London nine years ago, this was a lot of fun. 

Yes I like musicals.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Yes I like them.
West Side story, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat are my favourites.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

I like them only if they involve blood lust and debauchery


----------



## TennysonsHarp (Apr 30, 2017)

I used to be crazy about musicals, but I've grown out of them a bit. I don't hate them by any means, but they've lost a bit of their appeal to me.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

TennysonsHarp said:


> I used to be crazy about musicals, but I've grown out of them a bit. I don't hate them by any means, but they've lost a bit of their appeal to me.


This video probably explains one reason for that.


----------



## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

They're ok. I was never a big fan of them but I think they're fun to see every now and then. I prefer actually participating by playing in the pit orchestra.


----------



## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

I like some of the old musicals - Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner & Loewe, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Gershwin, Burton Lane etc. And Stephen Sondheim's works. This is art, IMO.

What I find disappointing is the trend of making a musical out of almost anything you can think of simply because it's a work known to the audience before it was musicalized. This is commercialism, IMO.


----------



## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

Compared to operas, absolutely


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

St Matthew said:


> Compared to operas, absolutely


Even Wagner operas?


----------



## St Matthew (Aug 26, 2017)

hpowders said:


> Even Wagner operas?


Especially 

But Verdi is unbearable


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

St Matthew said:


> Especially
> 
> But Verdi is unbearable


I second that ............


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So Das Rheingold isn't a musical? No wonder it's never at the Emmies.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

St Matthew said:


> Compared to operas, absolutely


Perhaps trying a little harder?


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Classic favorites:

Sweeney Todd
Guys and Dolls
Gypsy
She Loves Me
My Fair Lady
Kiss Me, Kate (for the score)
Follies (mostly for the score and production; FYI a new production just opened to rave reviews at Britain's National Theatre)
Cabaret

More recent favorites:
Next to Normal
Avenue Q
The Band's Visit
Hamilton (It's really good, even if you don't normally listen to rap.)

I don't see that many anymore.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I like them only if they involve blood lust and debauchery


Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd. (Although the self-flagellation is often cut.)


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> I love _Kismet_. Up-and-coming composer--something, maybe Alexander--Borodin, Russian chap, composed the music. Keep an eye on this one!


Don't forget "Song of Norway" with tunes by . . . I think his name is Greg Edwards.


----------



## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

I do, yes. Stephen Sondheim is my favorite musical composer. I love his unique classical-influenced style. Sweeney Todd, Follies, Company, A Little Night Music, Into the Woods...all great. 

I also do like ALW, especially Cats and The Phantom of the Opera. Also enjoy Spring Awakening, Pippin, and Cabaret.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

jegreenwood said:


> Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd. (Although the self-flagellation is often cut.)


Reminds me. I need to buy Ezio Flagello's greatest hits!! Thanks!!

As a _gent_, jegreenwood, you have no_ peer!_


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Tristan said:


> I do, yes. Stephen Sondheim is my favorite musical composer. I love his unique classical-influenced style. Sweeney Todd, Follies, Company, A Little Night Music, Into the Woods...all great.
> 
> I also do like ALW, especially Cats and The Phantom of the Opera. Also enjoy Spring Awakening, Pippin, and Cabaret.


How can we forget that one.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Never got into musicals, but remember fondly some of the children's musicals from way back. Mary Poppins was the best.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Reminds me. I need to buy Ezio Flagello's greatest hits!! Thanks!!
> 
> As a _gent_, jegreenwood, you have no_ peer!_


For those who only saw the PG-13 version of Sweeney:






I saw this song performed in the previews for the original Broadway production, and it made it on to the cast album, even though it was cut by opening night. I think it is included in a number of productions these days.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Pugg said:


> How can we forget that one.


I just wish the film hadn't dropped so many of the songs,


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

jegreenwood said:


> I just wish the film hadn't dropped so many of the songs,


Enlighten me, it's been a while since seeing the film.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

The film version of _Cabaret _is quite different from the play. I'm not familiar with the source material, but Fosse may have drawn on other portions of Isherwood's story collection.

The stage version(s) of _Cabaret _include quite a few "book numbers" - songs that aren't performed in the cabaret itself. They include:

_So What?
The Telephone Song_ (which is among audience members at the cabaret)
_Perfectly Marvelous
It Couldn't Please Me More
Why Should I Wake Up?
Married_ (in English)
_Meeskite
What Would You Do?_

On the original cast album _So What?_ and _What Would You Do?_ were sung by Lotte Lenya (widow of Kurt Weill and star of _Threepenny Opera_ - also Rosa Klebs in _From Russia With Love_) who gave the that production much of its soul.

_Maybe This Time_ and _Mein Herr_ were new in the movie. _Mein Herr_ replaced (and improved upon) a number called _Don't Tell Mama_. The two film songs (along with _Don't Tell Mama_) were included in the celebrated 1998 Broadway revival. _Why Should I Wake Up?_ may have been cut.


----------



## dillonp2020 (May 6, 2017)

I once went to see Phantom of The Opera. I ended up leaving during the intermission. Why? I didn't like it. The music seemed tacky and unremarkable to me. Also, for some reason musical writers don't share the talents of Britten or John Adams in their ability to make English sound appealing in opera for me.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

dillonp2020 said:


> I once went to see Phantom of The Opera. I ended up leaving during the intermission. Why? I didn't like it. The music seemed tacky and unremarkable to me. Also, for some reason musical writers don't share the talents of Britten or John Adams in their ability to make English sound appealing in opera for me.


I hope you are not judging lyric writing based solely on Phantom. Are you familiar with the scores (music and lyrics) that Stephen Sondheim wrote in the 1970s and after?

One more thing - There's a show running now called "Prince of Broadway." It celebrates the work of Harold Prince. The show has some structural flaws - it may not be the best way to present the genius of this man. Prince served as either director or producer (often both) of:

_West Side Story
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum
She Loves Me
Fiddler on the Roof
Cabaret
Company
Follies
Candide_ (1972 revival as well as New York City Opera and Broadway revival - he turned a flop with a great score into a hit)
_A Little Night Music
Evita
Sweeney Todd
The Phantom of the Opera_

Plus dozens more.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

jegreenwood said:


> The film version of _Cabaret _is quite different from the play. I'm not familiar with the source material, but Fosse may have drawn on other portions of Isherwood's story collection.
> 
> The stage version(s) of _Cabaret _include quite a few "book numbers" - songs that aren't performed in the cabaret itself. They include:
> 
> ...


Now I understand, because I did play the L.P last night and all those song are in the film and I never seen the play.
Thank you very much for all your info.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

No, not really. Opera is much better.


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> No, not really. Opera is much better.


One has to loosen up a bit from time to time, we are going top see West side story later this year.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Pugg said:


> One has to loosen up a bit from time to time, we are going top see West side story later this year.


_West Side_ is a good musical. I like it.


----------



## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Sure, I enjoy some musicals, but there are others you would have to pay me to attend


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

QuietGuy said:


> I like some of the old musicals - Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner & Loewe, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Gershwin, Burton Lane etc. And Stephen Sondheim's works. This is art, IMO.
> 
> What I find disappointing is the trend of making a musical out of almost anything you can think of simply because it's a work known to the audience before it was musicalized. This is commercialism, IMO.


Not only that. Where are the great melodies? Nothing being written today compares with South Pacific, My Fair Lady, West Side Story or Fiddler on the Roof.

I guess that's why there are so many touring "revivals" of the great musicals of the past.


----------



## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

Love them.

Movies _and _Stage.

Some folks are saying there're no good melodies being written today. I disagree. While many big hits are quickly forgettable, plenty of shows will touch your heart. I defy anyone to listen to the cast album of COME FROM AWAY, for instance, and not laugh and cry. There's great stuff there.

BTW, it's always been the case that most shows are bad, just as most movies and most novels and most pop records are bad. (or at least forgettable) Classic movies aren't better by definition - it's just that so much of what we have today is the creamest of the crop. Same with Broadway. _Show Boat_ and _Oklahoma _and _West Side Story_ have lasted because they're better than what was out at the time. But plenty of dross was staged in the 40's, too.


----------



## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Did not have much interest in musicals until the wife and I became ushers at a large concert hall 10 years ago. Seeing these performances, often several nights in a row, we learned to appreciate the work that it takes to put on shows like these. 

Phantom of the Opera was a favorite, Oklahoma was another.


----------



## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

My wife is really responsible for me getting into watching and liking musicals.
In high school, we had a very intelligent and active music director. We went to Broadway just about each year. I got to see "Man from La Mancha" with Richard Kiley, "Jesus Christ Super Star," and "Fiddler on the Roof." Even though I thoroughly enjoyed the live performances, the idea of watching a musical as a movie never, ever held any interest for me. Then I got married, and in order to maintain peaceful co-existence, I conceded to watch "West Side Story." Mind blown! Now I like listening to show tunes on CD.


----------



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I love musicals -- and did even before I started loving opera. In certain ways, I even prefer musicals to operas.

About _The Phantom of the Opera_ specifically -- I like the score (though I've never seen the show) but prefer _Les Miserables_ (which I've seen in two productions, one of which was the Broadway version, in 1992). _The Secret Garden_ is another favorite of mine (I saw it on Broadway, too), as is _Oliver!_ I love _The King and I _and _Fiddler on the Roof_ (both of which were mentioned up-thread). I saw the latter in its 2004 Broadway revival and can still remember the production.


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

dillonp2020 said:


> I once went to see Phantom of The Opera. I ended up leaving during the intermission. Why? I didn't like it. The music seemed tacky and unremarkable to me. Also, for some reason musical writers don't share the talents of Britten or John Adams in their ability to make English sound appealing in opera for me.


Should you visit NYC, you may have an interesting opportunity for comparison - a Thomas Ades opera (libretto by Tom Cairns) and a Stephen Sondheim musical based on the same work: Luis Bunuel's "The Exterminating Angel." (The Sondheim is also based in part on Bunuel's "The Discreet Charm of the Bougeoisie.")


----------

