# persistence of national character in music



## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

The thread on Bach's national styles got me thinking about this.

To what extent do different national characters persist over time in music? Sometimes I imagine that I hear a very long persistence indeed - over many centuries, through many apparently different styles - but I may be projecting (or just repeating tired national stereotypes).

Thoughts? I tried to put together some examples of what I mean.

German (inward-looking, mystic)






















Italian (passionate, extroverted)






















French (sensual, restrained)


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

English music always sounds extremely sweet to me. It has a simple, gentle sort of charm to it:
















This one is simple, but it's very evocative of the traits I mentioned:






English choir always sounds _sweet _to me above all else.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Would national character be disappearing over time? We live in a smaller world today. Composers are often influenced and taught in other countries. We don't care as much about our nation's folk music, and we all pretty much listen to the same pop.


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> Would national character be disappearing over time? We live in a smaller world today. Composers are often influenced and taught in other countries. We don't care as much about our nation's folk music, and we all pretty much listen to the same pop.


The personality of the people remains individualistic and is thus infused in the music. K-Pop is similar to J-Pop and American Pop as well as German Pop etc but they're all different in expression.

the southern states with their extroverted passion and the northern states with their introverted reservedness are very different.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Lucifer Saudade said:


> The personality of the people remains individualistic and is thus infused in the music. K-Pop is similar to J-Pop and American Pop as well as German Pop etc but they're all different in expression.
> 
> the southern states with their extroverted passion and the northern states with their introverted reservedness are very different.


But people listen to varieties of music. I don't know of any northerners who consciously listen to pop from northern states (nor do I agree with the extroverted/reserved distinction much).

So a Classical composer from Europe could be influenced by American Jazz. An American composer can be influenced by Asian music. Certainly, it seems a lot easier to do so now.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I must admit, I was struck by how close the sailors' music in Purcell's Dido & Aeneas sounds to the English sailor music of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries:
















Breezy - frank - jolly - openhearted: this is the character of 'the English Tar', *supposedly*. 

It's not easy to talk about national music coming from a national character without resorting to stereotypes. But music from the same nation *does* share the same culture, fashions, opinions, memories and influences, and it always amazes me how slight variations of note-groups and musical phrasing can make you think of Ireland - Spain - Scotland - Russia and so on.

A very interesting thread!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

For British current compositions, I guess that you can a certain charm in Birtwistle and Ferneyhough.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm glad some people are bringing in English examples. I didn't because I don't know enough. Same with Russia and Spain.


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> But people listen to varieties of music. I don't know of any northerners who consciously listen to pop from northern states (nor do I agree with the extroverted/reserved distinction much).
> 
> So a Classical composer from Europe could be influenced by American Jazz. An American composer can be influenced by Asian music. Certainly, it seems a lot easier to do so now.


I wasn't talking about what music they're listening to, rather what music they were *making*.

J POP?






See the "cuteness" that's so ubiquitous in certain Japanese entertainment?

And what about this?






or this?






See what strong flavours you get? It's in the blood or deeply ingrained in the national psyche. Because people of every nation have their own "stereotypical traits" - it shines through in their music to this day.

The form is getting americanized sure, but it's a bit arrogant to think other countries don't retain their own culture.

As for South and North... well Brazil and Germany strike me as a bit different in temperament, generally speaking. I assume you travel? (I wouldn't even ask but like 66% Americans are said to have no passports). It's apparent.

I focus on the differences, of course there are similarities too,


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