# who are the top 3 classical composers of all time



## MusicFree (Jun 16, 2014)

of course questions like these are always subjective

but lets say their was a worldwide vote among classical musical scholars about the top 3 greatest composers... who would the top 3 come out as


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Back in the seventies it was Beethoven, Mozart and Schubert. Now it is Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. In the 2050s it will be Alma, that American guy with the hair and Andrew Lloyd Webber.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

My guess would be:

Bach 
Beethoven 
Wagner

This is of course biased away from the Renaissance and 20th century, toward the Common Practice Period. But that seems to be our bias for a long time now, and perhaps for a relatively good reason.

It might be more useful to do a top three each for pre-CPP, CPP, and post-CPP. So we'd have something like Dufay, Josquin, Palestrina (though I'd personally replace Palestrina with Gombert), Bach Beethoven Wagner, and Bartok Schoenberg Xenakis.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

It seems to be Beethoven, Mozart and Bach who consistently come tops in polls around here at any rate.


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## MusicFree (Jun 16, 2014)

Chordalrock said:


> My guess would be:
> 
> Bach
> Beethoven
> ...


Wagner is an interesting choice

do you think many scholars would overlook his anti-semitism?


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

MusicFree said:


> Wagner is an interesting choice


From what I've read, it's either Mozart or Wagner to supplement Bach and Beethoven. Maybe in the last couple of decades with the rise of political correctness people are more likely to tiptoe around putting Wagner up there with Bach and Beethoven, but like all collective delusions that don't reach the status of religion, it is fleeting.

I chose Wagner rather than Mozart, because to me (and probably to many others) Mozart was surpassed by Beethoven, but you can't say that Beethoven surpassed Wagner since the two composers are so different. It's kind of like picking the best composer from each era of the common practice period, so Bach from Baroque, Beethoven from classical period, and Wagner from the romantic era.


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Bach
Mozart
Stravinsky


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Palestrina and Beethoven. There hasn't been a third yet.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Bach, Beethoven, and Mahler.


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## MusicFree (Jun 16, 2014)

remember guys this question is not your personal top 3, but asking who you think the consensus top 3 if a worldwide scholarly vote happened


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

MusicFree said:


> remember guys this question is not your personal top 3, but asking who you think the consensus top 3 if a worldwide scholarly vote happened


Well you don't need a thread then, _everyone_ knows what the results would be.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

MusicFree said:


> remember guys this question is not your personal top 3, but asking who you think the consensus top 3 if a worldwide scholarly vote happened


I am afraid that a scholarly vote would be biased. We need to include all the classical listeners who do not have the musical scholar status. But really, the vote to be most unbiased must be restricted to only those who have heard all classical composer's works and have spent sufficient time with each one that they can truly know what is the best.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

Rameau 
Mozart
Stravinsky


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Most certainly Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Vronsky said:


> Rameau
> Mozart
> Stravinsky


I doubt Rameau will ever be a consensus top 10 even. Perhaps you were thinking of your own personal choices here.


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## MusicFree (Jun 16, 2014)

Florestan said:


> I am afraid that a scholarly vote would be biased. We need to include all the classical listeners who do not have the musical scholar status. But really, the vote to be most unbiased must be restricted to only those who have heard all classical composer's works and have spent sufficient time with each one that they can truly know what is the best.


fair enough......despite that though would bach, beethoven, mozart be the result of a worldwide vote?


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

I'll go with Penderecki, Simpson & Ligeti. 
You see Dear Hearts its all personal choice. 
I accept that Bach, Beethoven and Wolfie would win in a popularity poll but popularity is not a measure of greatness.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

MusicFree said:


> fair enough......despite that though would bach, beethoven, mozart be the result of a worldwide vote?


Worldwide? That would probably be Genghis Khan, Mahatma Gandhi, and Donald Trump.

Oh, you said composers. Sorry.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I doubt Rameau will ever be a consensus top 10 even. Perhaps you were thinking of your own personal choices here.


I tried to be less subjective. To be honest.
My personal "top three composers" would be: Stravinsky, Mozart, Berlioz.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

There is no "most certainly" here.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> There is no "most certainly" here.


Why not? Is it "choose your 3 favorite" or "best 3 of all time"? There is a difference. I recognize Wagner as a greater composer than Sibelius but prefer the latter much more.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

MusicFree said:


> remember guys this question is not your personal top 3, but asking who you think the consensus top 3 if a worldwide scholarly vote happened


Why? That's boring.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Vronsky said:


> I tried to be less subjective. To be honest.
> My personal "top three composers" would be: Stravinsky, Mozart, Berlioz.


I appreciate your perspective and preference but really find it hard to see a convincing argument that Berlioz is better than Bach or Beethoven, for example.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Why not? Is it "choose your 3 favorite" or "best 3 of all time"?


According to the OP, neither.


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## Aeneas (Jul 30, 2016)

Bach
Mozart
Beethoven


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## itegil (Jul 31, 2016)

Yanni, John Tesh, Philip Glass


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> According to the OP, neither.


From OP: "but lets say their was a worldwide vote among classical musical scholars about the top 3 greatest composers... who would the top 3 come out as"

so "best 3 of all time" sounds more like it than personal choices.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> From OP: "but lets say their was a worldwide vote among classical musical scholars about the top 3 greatest composers... who would the top 3 come out as"
> 
> so "best 3 of all time" sounds more like it than personal choices.


Still neither...


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> Still neither...


Already then just copy the text from OP and then see if "most certainly" does not apply to the answer, which is your original objection.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Already then just copy the text from OP and then see if "most certainly" does not apply to the answer, which is your original objection.


I don't claim to know what the current scholarly consensus would be, and fail to see how it would be immediately obvious.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Most listings I’ve seen on the Internet begin with the same three names. For instance, from a voting game elsewhere:

1 - Beethoven
2 - Bach
3 - Mozart
4 - Haydn
5 - Mahler
6 - Schubert
7 - Brahms
8 - Stravinsky
9 - Handel
10 - Tchaikovsky


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> I don't claim to know what the current scholarly consensus would be, and fail to see how it would be immediately obvious.


Well, I threw in a little educated guess and felt pretty confident about it. You are free to disagree obviously.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Well, I threw in a little educated guess and felt pretty confident about it. You are free to disagree obviously.


I didn't interpret a post beginning with "most certainly" as you making an educated guess but okay.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> I didn't interpret a post beginning with "most certainly" as you making an educated guess but okay.


"Most certainly" is an expression of confidence in one's belief. "I am pretty confident that the choices of most music scholars would include Bach, Beethoven and Mozart as the top three" would probably have received a better reception?


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> "Most certainly" is an expression of confidence in one's belief. "I am pretty confident that the choices of most music scholars would include Bach, Beethoven and Mozart as the top three" would probably have received a better reception?


Yeah probably. Sorry if I misunderstood you, my English isn't perfect.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

KenOC said:


> Most listings I've seen on the Internet begin with the same three names. For instance, from a voting game elsewhere:
> 
> 1 - Beethoven
> 2 - Bach
> ...


Yes, Beethoven, Mozart and Bach (in varying order) almost always top out the best classical composers lists. That's the way it is, that's the way it always will be and that's the way it should be.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Chronochromie said:


> Yeah probably. Sorry if I misunderstood you, my English isn't perfect.


Hey, no worries. Neither is mine


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## MusicFree (Jun 16, 2014)

I mean just like if you were to ask the majority of physicists who the top 3 physicists

its always going to be Einstein, Newton and James Clerk Maxwell rounding the top 3

at least Newton and Einstein are cemented as top 2


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

MusicFree said:


> I mean just like if you were to ask the majority of physicists who the top 3 physicists
> 
> its always going to be Einstein, Newton and James Clerk Maxwell rounding the top 3
> 
> *at least Newton and Einstein are cemented as top 2*


Yes. Heisenberg, Rutherford, Dirac(probably others too) could all make a reasonable claim for that number 3 spot.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

itegil said:


> Yanni, *John Tesh*, Philip Glass


\\


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DaveM said:


> Yes, Beethoven, Mozart and Bach (in varying order) almost always top out the best classical composers lists. That's the way it is, that's the way it always will be and that's the way it should be.


Yeah, but Mozart gets up there because of that movie they made about him. Most of the people who saw that move don't even listen to classical, but will vote Mozart because they liked the movie.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

Probably Beethoven


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mozart/ Verdi/ Mahler


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Worldwide? That would probably be Genghis Khan, Mahatma Gandhi, and Donald Trump.
> 
> Oh, you said composers. Sorry.


Khan and Gandhi have lost their opportunity to be composers. But Trump could make music great again. In fact, he alone can do it.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

And for that matter, does anybody really care what the "scholarly consensus" is? Or think that it has any significance whatever?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Khan and Gandhi have lost their opportunity to be composers. But Trump could make music great again. In fact, he alone can do it.


Trump: "I'm going to build a wall around Schoenberg. It'll be a really great wall. And what's more, Schoenberg will pay for it."


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Trump: "I'm going to build a wall around Schoenberg. It'll be a really great wall. And what's more, Schoenberg will pay for it."


Well I hope his musical innovations in Anarchism (which is in response to serialism), is fully recognized. His past ten symphonies showed some new musical landscapes never seen before in music. Incredible!!


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

My top 3: Beethoven, Haydn and Mozart.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Florestan said:


> Yeah, but Mozart gets up there because of that movie they made about him. Most of the people who saw that move don't even listen to classical, but will vote Mozart because they liked the movie.


Which means Mozart would not have been considered a top 3 before Amadeus? I don't think so.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

DaveM said:


> Which means Mozart would not have been considered a top 3 before Amadeus? I don't think so.


I didn't see the movie and Mozart is not in my top 3.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2016)

My top three...

1 Those whom scholars guess would appear at the top of a poll, were it to be conducted.
2 My guess at a top three.
3 My personal preferences.

Any other form of listing, especially if it involved KenOC's opinions would only give rise to mirth.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

KenOC said:


> And for that matter, does anybody really care what the "scholarly consensus" is? Or think that it has any significance whatever?


Maybe it's relevant to the people who argue that "greatness" is just another form of popularity?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Yes. Heisenberg, Rutherford, Dirac (probably others too) could all make a reasonable claim for that number 3 spot.


I'm not so sure about Heisenberg.


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## kanishknishar (Aug 10, 2015)

1. Schnittke
2. Rihm
3. Penderecki


(Yes, they're different just for the sake of being unique.)


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Well for me it is Haydn and any 2 others the scholars want to pick, I am not greedy I only want one choice


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Florestan said:


> I didn't see the movie and Mozart is not in my top 3.


Gee, what a surprise.............BTW, a movie was made about Beethoven as well (Immortal Beloved)
Why don't you reference that as well?

Bach
Mozart
Beethoven


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

poconoron said:


> Gee, what a surprise.............BTW, a movie was made about Beethoven as well (Immortal Beloved)
> Why don't you reference that as well?
> 
> Bach
> ...


I'll go with those three. But special mention should be made of Prokofiev, for several reasons: the sheer fecundity of his output, and the fact that he composed exceptional, universally-known examples in so many genres. Few other composers can show "classics" in: piano concertos and solo music, violin concertos, symphonies, ballet scores, film music, chamber works, opera, suites and other short pieces, and oddball things like Peter and the Wolf and the Overture on Hebrew Themes. The only big category missing is religious music. What have I left out?


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Mozart, Bach & Schubert are really the top 3 composers of all time and eternity


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

poconoron said:


> Gee, what a surprise.............BTW, a movie was made about Beethoven as well (Immortal Beloved)
> Why don't you reference that as well?


I have not seen that one, but I suspect the Mozart movie was promoted as a rollicking jolly good time (perhaps with a good bit if drinking going on) and the Beethoven move was promoted in a more serious manner so that the masses easily gravitated to the good time Mozart. But having not seen either, I really don't know.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Chordalrock said:


> From what I've read, it's either Mozart or Wagner to supplement Bach and Beethoven. Maybe in the last couple of decades with the rise of political correctness people are more likely to tiptoe around putting Wagner up there with Bach and Beethoven, but like all collective delusions that don't reach the status of religion, it is fleeting.
> 
> I chose Wagner rather than Mozart, because to me (and probably to many others) Mozart was surpassed by Beethoven, but you can't say that Beethoven surpassed Wagner since the two composers are so different. It's kind of like picking the best composer from each era of the common practice period, so Bach from Baroque, Beethoven from classical period, and Wagner from the romantic era.


I have a bit modified list:

Bach, Mozart, Wagner

Mozart instead of Beethoven, because I see no radical change in his music. Well, it's a difficult choise, but Bach and Wagner for sure.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I would list my top 3 and brief a few reasons.

Bach
1. Promotion of equal temperament system, which made free modulations between remote keys in a short section workable on keyboard instruments and thus greatly changed the way of composing (e.x. pivot modulation). Unmeasurable influence.
2. The master of counterpoint, a large part of his works were included in the text books to guide generations of musicians in their composition. A maestro who was confident enough to summarize the approaches to write fugues. Few else dare to write pieces like "the art of fugue".
3. His works covered all the major genres of his time except opera, and remained among the most important.

Mozart
Probably the most talented composer in the history, who was good at all the major genres of art music in his time. During his short life, he boosted the development of composition techniques with tons of innovative works, improved and invented many things.

Beethoven
1. Inherited and improved Viennese classical style. Created his own unique style. Foreshadowed Romantic and even Contemporary music.
2. Less prolific than the above two, but no less impact. He completely revolutionized musical composition in his time. His works are among the best in most crucial genres except opera, on which generations of composers studied.
3. Liberator of music (under the context of French revolution), encouraged followers to write music for folks or to express their own feelings.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For the 18,000,000th time this thread has been resurrected:

Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mozart, Schubert and Verdi at this moment


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Mozart, Schubert and Verdi at this moment


philosophically romantic combination I think


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## Friendlyneighbourhood (Oct 8, 2016)

Monteverdi, Mahler and Stockhausen.

But who's to say that someone alive right now could be the next greatest composer?

_A small commentary on the previously discussed "greatest"
Bach - His counterpoint is usually his selling point. His complexity has been challenged by composers since but his output is a big selling point.
Mozart - His music is very one dimensional to me. I'm aware of some of the clever tricks he done in especially his string quartets but it doesn't do it for me. On a side note, I think the Jupiter Symphony is incredible.

Beethoven - The most advertised composer of all time. His works up until his 6-7th Symphony usually don't interest me in the slightest. His Symphony 9 (particularly the 1st and 3rd movements, Sonata 29, Grosso Fugue, in particular are his greatest works.

None of these composers, despite having some great works seem to compare to the best of the Renaissance, late-romantic and 20th centuries._


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

J.S. Bach is unquestionable if you ask me.

Wagner - most epic music ever, complete mastery of the combination of Drama, "world building" (his operas have such amazing mythology and nuance about them), and awesome music that pushed us into the 20th century.

Messiaen - completely original, entirely mystical sounding, brilliant harmonic and rhythmic structures, one of the best musicians of the 20th century and my favorite composer.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Edgard Varèse, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Frank Zappa.


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## Friendlyneighbourhood (Oct 8, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Edgard Varèse, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Frank Zappa.


Very fine choice! :tiphat:

All three are so so good


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## jailhouse (Sep 2, 2016)

i love all three of those people but lets not kid ourselves here 

Varese's output is pretty tiny and very specialized. Influential but nowhere near any of the super famous composers.

Frank Zappa is a crossover rock star / jazzfusion musician who also happened to write in a classical fashion. You can't put him over someone like Bach.

No objection to stockhausen.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

jailhouse said:


> i love all three of those people but lets not kid ourselves here


Kidding here did you call? That's my name but we all have an opinion.............


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## WaterRat (May 19, 2015)

itegil said:


> Yanni, John Tesh, Philip Glass


Glass is okay, but are you sure he's _that_ good?


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Meyerbeer*, Beethoven and Berlioz

No, I'm not insane. Most people (except Wagner and Schumann) would have agreed in the mid-19th century, pausing only to add Mozart and replace Berlioz with Rossini. For a top five, that's hard to beat.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

hpowders said:


> For the 18,000,000th time this thread has been resurrected:
> 
> Bach, Mozart and Beethoven.


What no Schubert :lol:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Today's thought--Nono, Scriabin, Mahler.


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

1. Roslavets
2. Lourié
3. Protopopov


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn man said:


> What no Schubert :lol:


Anybody in the future, identifying himself as "hpowders" who claims to love Schubert, you KNOW it's an imposter. 

There is one Schubert piece I like, the last String Quartet in G Major! :angel:

Better than Cage! I don't like any!


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## Genoveva (Nov 9, 2010)

My guess about the top 3 composers as viewed by "music scholars" would be Bach, Beethoven, Mozart. 

I would expect at least 2 of these 3 to be included. If any one of them was not included, a possible replacement would be either Schubert, Brahms or Haydn. I don't see much chance for Wagner or Mahler as they are too specialised.


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