# Female and male instruments?



## Daniel

Do you think some instruments are more female or more male? Is the violin a more female instrument, the cello and bass more male? Or do you think you can't say that in general, depends on the player?


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## Nox

Maybe...the deeper toned instruments tend to sound more male, the higher, more female...

...but having said that...I think a piccolo is very male...


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## max

No, I don't think so...


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## becky

I don't know. I've known more female cello players than male cellists. I think it does depend on the player.

I think the exception is the flute, definitely more female flutists. Actually, I don't think I've ever met a male flutist. Another may be the harp, needs small fingers. But for the most part, no, instruments don't seem to have a specific sex.


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## Nox

...I think I'm confused (small wonder)...:blink:

...was the question regarding the sound of the instrument...or a trend in the sex of the musicians playing various instruments?...


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## 009

LOL...  
I would think that we're talking about the timbre of instruments here...
To me it depends on the make of the instrument itself, Caz a cello can sound male , yet another by another manufactorer can sound relatively female. 
And it really depends on the player also...whether he or she is able to bring out that facet of playing. 
Or do u think with varied and good tonal control of the player, one can sound male and female as u please no matter what the instrument's timbre might be?
Or do u see the instrument's original tonal palette as the deciding factor?


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## baroque flute

There definitely are some instruments played more by men and some played more by women, but it's not extremely so. From my observations violin, piano, and oboe seem to be a fairly even mix. I have actually seen quite a few female cellists and male flutists. (Think Jacqueline Du Pre--cello--and Jean Pierre Rampal and James Galway--flute)
Harpists seem to be mostly women and brass players to be a majority of men.


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## becky

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Jul 22 2004, 08:20 PM
> *...I think I'm confused (small wonder)...:blink:
> 
> ...was the question regarding the sound of the instrument...or a trend in the sex of the musicians playing various instruments?...
> [snapback]272[/snapback]​*


Oh! I guess I misunderstood. For the most part, it depends on the musician, but in Nox's case, her instrument is all feminine 

I don't think masculine and feminine are words that can be used on the sound of a particular instrument. My instrument may sound (and look) feminine when I play it, but that has a lot to do with my playing. I know others can get completely different sounds out if it, masculine too.


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## Daniel

> *...was the question regarding the sound of the instrument...or a trend in the sex of the musicians playing various instruments?...*


I think both are interesting. Actually i think if an instrument has a more female sounding, more women will play it, and the other way round.

For myself i think, its an individual decision, but there are tendencies in sound, so that flutes are for me more female, also Clarinet and Oboe, brass more male. Violin, well mixed but with tendencies to female; cello, bass more male. Like usual you can't generalize, but i think that tendency is because of the more soft, higher sounding of those instruments to be more with female sensibilty, and this strong sounding of some instruments to be more male.


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## becky

Yes, and some instruments have more males playing them just because of strength! I have known female bassists and tuba players, but they were girls of a heftier build! I have trouble just holding a bass in position (I haven't tried in a long time.)


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## 009

> *Jean Pierre Rampal and James Galway--flute*


That's 2 really cute lads.
I remember there was a poll on some other site...Who's the more handsome of the 2 and why?
I thought that poll was really entertaining. Maybe we should run it also. :lol:


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## Quaverion

I thought that at first, but now I've realized that it has nothing to do with that. They just play higher notes or lower notes.


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## The Angel of Music

I think that the violin is somewhat femine, LOL. I think the piano is both feminine and masculan...for some reason I think of my piano as a guy(that is being abused by my terrible playing jk  ). A bass seems too me more like a masculan instrument...same as the tuba. The flute is more feminane too me. Heh...sorry about my spelling...ack! :lol:


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## godzillaviolist

*Instruments and gender*

Here is my view:

Female instruments:

The flute, I know this is a cliche, but it sounds feminine to me. 
The oboe and the oboe d'amore and cor anglais. I see the oboe as a soprano voice, oboe d'amore as mezzo, and the cor anglais as contralto.
I think the viola is most definetly female; a contralto voice.
Oddly the 'cello seems very female to me. It's more male than the viola, but it's tone seems so feminine, especially on two upper strings.
Bells and metal percussion ( celesta, glockenspiel, steel drums, triangle ect. ) always seem female.
The organ seems female.
The harp is female in its lower and middle registers, genderless higher up.

Male instruments;

The alto flute; it seems like a male version of the flute.
The heckelphone sounds so much like a baritone voice, it's amazing. A very male instrument.
The bassoon to me is the most male woodwind. It can sound like a bass, a baritone and a tenor voice. Even the extreme high notes, like the ones opening the rite of spring, don't sound female. They sound more like an eery countertenor than a woman's voice.
The horns, trombones and tubas are all male to me, both in timbre and depth.
Most of the rest of the percussion seem male.
Harpsichords sound male to me.

Hard to tell instruments;

The piccolo seems genderless to me. Too cold to be human.
The violin's tone is an enigma to me. It's tone reminds me of the pure voice of a child, quite genderless but very human. It doesn't seem female or male.
The trumpet is too high to be male, to masculine to be female. It combines male and female aspects.
The saxophone is genderless to me, though the higher ones are more feminine and the lower one's more masculine.
The piano seems neither male nor female too.

godzilla


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## Harvey

The more complex sounding instruments tend to sound masculine to me. The clearer, purer instruments sound feminine to me.

So...
I think instruments can be adjusted to sound more masculine or feminine. For example, a New York Steinway I would say is male. Compare with Blüthner.

A note about piano: I've seen more male pianists than female. There is also a difference in the performance depending on what gender is playing. Sometimes I can hear when a girl's playing the piano.


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## godzillaviolist

*Female players*

I bet if you put it to the test you couldn't tell; I used to think I could until someone tested me an I got it wrong constantly.
I understand the Steinway gender association. I love the sound of a Steinway in it's first 4 octaves ( all other pianos pale by comparison in that range ). It has a delightly full, heavy, slightly dissonant sound that is reminiscent of a baritone voice.
godzilla


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## Bassoonist Student

I agree with you, Angel The flutist is suitable for femine. that all I can say.

Martin



The Angel of Music said:


> I think that the violin is somewhat femine, LOL. I think the piano is both feminine and masculan...for some reason I think of my piano as a guy(that is being abused by my terrible playing jk  ). A bass seems too me more like a masculan instrument...same as the tuba. The flute is more feminane too me. Heh...sorry about my spelling...ack! :lol:


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## Bassoonist Student

Hi Godzilla,

How are you?

Well, Let me tell you something. The bassoon I thought some of femine can play the instrument or maybe somtime femine can do play Contrabassoon. My teacher is femine and play Bassoon honestly. Oboe, I'm not sure I think it is definitely male and I have a Oboe as well. French Horn and Trombone, yeah male I think I agree because plenty of buzz or blow hard than women forgive me say to you Ladies , But Sometime Femine can play Tenor Trombone with F attachment or Bb instrument. Tuba, I agree again with male.

Cheers.

Martin



godzillaviolist said:


> Here is my view:
> 
> Female instruments:
> 
> The flute, I know this is a cliche, but it sounds feminine to me.
> The oboe and the oboe d'amore and cor anglais. I see the oboe as a soprano voice, oboe d'amore as mezzo, and the cor anglais as contralto.
> I think the viola is most definetly female; a contralto voice.
> Oddly the 'cello seems very female to me. It's more male than the viola, but it's tone seems so feminine, especially on two upper strings.
> Bells and metal percussion ( celesta, glockenspiel, steel drums, triangle ect. ) always seem female.
> The organ seems female.
> The harp is female in its lower and middle registers, genderless higher up.
> 
> Male instruments;
> 
> The alto flute; it seems like a male version of the flute.
> The heckelphone sounds so much like a baritone voice, it's amazing. A very male instrument.
> The bassoon to me is the most male woodwind. It can sound like a bass, a baritone and a tenor voice. Even the extreme high notes, like the ones opening the rite of spring, don't sound female. They sound more like an eery countertenor than a woman's voice.
> The horns, trombones and tubas are all male to me, both in timbre and depth.
> Most of the rest of the percussion seem male.
> Harpsichords sound male to me.
> 
> Hard to tell instruments;
> 
> The piccolo seems genderless to me. Too cold to be human.
> The violin's tone is an enigma to me. It's tone reminds me of the pure voice of a child, quite genderless but very human. It doesn't seem female or male.
> The trumpet is too high to be male, to masculine to be female. It combines male and female aspects.
> The saxophone is genderless to me, though the higher ones are more feminine and the lower one's more masculine.
> The piano seems neither male nor female too.
> 
> godzilla


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## Benjamin

This subject came up on violinist.com and a HUGE argument broke out with one member accusing another member of gender-biased language and bigotry. It was really quite ridiculous.

Benjamin, a violinist


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## JANK

This is kinda funny actually. For some wierd reason I tend to be attracted to women who play masculine instruments like bass...lol. I especially love cute female jazz bassists.


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## Edward Elgar

I disagree that instruments should have genders, but I think that peices of music have genders. I don't know - what do you think?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I'm not the person to ask


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## Heck148

Depends on who is playing.


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## MarkW

Well, I do have to be really careful which instruments I store in a closet together.


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## Pugg

Benjamin said:


> This subject came up on violinist.com and a HUGE argument broke out with one member accusing another member of gender-biased language and bigotry. It was really quite ridiculous.
> 
> Benjamin, a violinist


Pity you never told us the outcome.


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## lextune

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'm not the person to ask


Considering the question was asked 13 years, I'm going to assume they weren't asking you anyway.


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## JAS

MarkW said:


> Well, I do have to be really careful which instruments I store in a closet together.


Is that where piccolos come from?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

lextune said:


> Considering the question was asked 13 years, I'm going to assume they weren't asking you anyway.


Oh, didn't I mention I'm a time traveller


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## quietfire

I feel like what instrument you play depends on your vocal range. Now of course you don't have to follow this rule. But I feel like if you can sing the passages out loud you will play that much better - just ask Gould.

Now, with that in mind, in my humble opinon, some instruments are more female or male depending on their pitch range.

But, you can play whatever you want of course!


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## Ziggabea

Edward Elgar said:


> I disagree that instruments should have genders, but I think that peices of music have genders. I don't know - what do you think?


I think both ideas a laughable


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## Ingélou

Traditionally some instruments are more associated with one sex. But I don't think there is an instrument that is only to be played by males, or only by females. The harp is often associated with female players - but in the Dark Ages, most harpers were men. 

Again, whether we think of an instrument itself as male or female is a matter of cultural history. The violin was often thought of as 'female', perhaps because of its curvy shape - or its ability to sing high. But the luthier who fitted up the first fiddle I bought in retirement always called the violins he had in for repair 'his boys'. 

Eddie, are you claiming the title of chief digger-up of old TC threads?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Yep, I'm chief thread little digger TLD


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## Pat Fairlea

Low-pitch instruments more male? Mrs Pat used to play euphonium. And she sings contralto.
Suddenly I'm feeling strangely insecure.


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## Pugg

quietfire said:


> I feel like what instrument you play depends on your vocal range. Now of course you don't have to follow this rule. But I feel like if you can sing the passages out loud you will play that much better - just ask Gould.
> 
> Now, with that in mind, in my humble opinion, some instruments are more female or male depending on their pitch range.
> 
> But, you can play whatever you want of course!


Now you making me curious......


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## SONNET CLV

Can't explain why, exactly, but ... I see the trombone as definitely a male instrument, while the triangle seems to me hopelessly female. But again, I've no idea why I interpret the instruments this way. I've known fine women trombonists, and have witnessed male percussionists tapping on the triangle.


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## quietfire

Pat Fairlea said:


> Low-pitch instruments more male? Mrs Pat used to play euphonium. And she sings contralto.
> Suddenly I'm feeling strangely insecure.


The fact that she can sing lower means something lol! She might be more male than males!


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## Guest

Never mind musical instruments...letters and numbers have their gender too.

For example:

Male - 1,2,3,5,9 - Female - 4,6,8 - Neither - 7
Male - B,D,F,I,J,K,L - Female - A,C,E,G,H,M - Neither - N


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Pugg said:


> Now you making me curious......


 really.


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## Merl

My guitars must all be female cos I don't understand them, either.


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## Dim7

I must be female because I am male and I can't understand myself.


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## hpowders

Why harp on this when there are so many more stimulating topics to chat about.


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## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> really.


We can do a poll on it


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## Jacred

Maybe this doesn't count, but the conductor's baton strikes me as more masculine than feminine.  

That aside, as I tend to associate 'genders' of instruments with who plays them, I've also found that flutes are quite feminine. Being the only dude in the flutes section seems to support this.


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## quietfire

Another thing I have noticed, males who play "female" instruments are usually more feminine, and females who play "male" instruments are usually more masculine.

There is also nothing inherently wrong with men/women being feminine/masculine, it's just what you project. Who you are on the inside is what matters at the end of the day.


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## Harmonie

Instruments really should not be seen in that way. People should play whatever they want and shouldn't feel any pressure to do otherwise, especially not over something so incredibly silly. I have played instruments that are stereotypically (based on the general gender division I've seen of people that play them) one or the other - trumpet, clarinet, bassoon, and oboe. The bassoon being the most ambiguous, I've found. The contrabassoon, though, I've never seen another woman play that thing. And I kind of understand why. It was very awkward for me. BUT even still I'm 100% sure that I'm wrong and there are plenty of awesome female contrabassoonists, even though I failed. Lol.

And cellos and basses are considered male instruments? I never had any idea. In ensembles I've been they have always been mixed. In reality, I've actually seen more women play the cello than men. And have always seen plenty of women bassists.

The only way I find relevance to the subject is a bit deeper. Historically the oboe was always depicted as a feminine instrument. However, it was depicted as such by almost entirely male composers and performed professionally solely by male oboists since women were not allowed to play professionally. Thus the depiction of being feminine and the 'voice' of being feminine was given pretty much all to men. Frustrating isn't it? When I read up on all of this, I instantly became more proud as an oboe player, and am also very proud to have been inspired specifically by women who play the instrument.


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## Pat Fairlea

quietfire said:


> The fact that she can sing lower means something lol! She might be more male than males!


This is a disturbing train of thought. Another glass of wine may be necessary


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