# Elbphilharmonie costs 6.000.000 Euros !



## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbphilharmonie



















This brandnew concerthall in Hamburg will cost 6 billion Euros. Your comments please.............


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Txllxt, first where did you get this number? The German Wiki mentions 866 million euro. Second, are you watching the grand opening? The prelude to Parsifal should be coming soon


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

As for comments, I will just quote a post I have just made on another thread concerning the Elphi (the Elbphilarmonie's unofficial name):

I remember visiting Hamburg for the first time several years ago. As I saw the Elbphilarmonie, towering still half-built but already impressive in the middle of the mighty river, I thought: "By the time this here is completed, I will come and live in this city". I have been closely watching the progress of this work and all the scandals surrounding it for the last several years.

Today is the grand opening, and today I got my residence permit for Germany. I will depart for my new homeland, the city of Hamburg, on the weekend - this time forever. This classical afficionado views it as a grand present for her new life - a very grand one indeed :tiphat:


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Txllxt, first where did you get this number? The German Wiki mentions 866 million euro. Second, are you watching the grand opening? The prelude to Parsifal should be coming soon


Hot news in Holland about the projected total cost of the whole complex...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

From under 900 million to 6 billion - that is quite a leap of imagination... 

Yes, it is very expensive. And yes, there have been delays and scandals during the building. But it is also beautiful, and a project that I believe, we classical fans should rather support than criticize. And isn't it what makes a country like Germany into a civilized, cultured nation - the ability to finance the achievements of human spirit, like music, architecture and other arts, rather than only the mere necessities?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Reading your title, I thought "that's incredibly cheap!".


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

It's something like 900.000.000 €, not 6.000.000 €. That's about the same amount Sydney paid for its opera house...

Everyone may watch the first concert here:


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

How much are the tickets for the first concert?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

pcnog11 said:


> How much are the tickets for the first concert?


I read the tickets were not sold to the public at all, they were auctioned off or something. Lots of Germany's big wigs are there, including Merkel, the Bundespresident, the mayor of Hamburg etc.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> Reading your title, I thought "that's incredibly cheap!".


Sorry about all these 000000000 : 600.000.000 Euros


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Wiki saith: In 2007, the construction was scheduled to be finished by 2010 with an estimated cost of €241 million. In November 2008, costs were estimated at €450 million. In August 2012, costs were re-estimated to be over €500 million. Construction work officially ended on 31 October 2016 at a cost of €789 million.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

"The director of the Elbphilharmonie says that tickets to performances by resident ensembles, touring orchestras like the New York Philharmonic and Chicago Symphony, chamber music, new music and jazz alike are all bought up within hours."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/...itectural-gift-to-gritty-hamburg-germany.html


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Good to see that million/billion of money still invested in classical music industry. It's provocative to see one of largest and most acoustical advanced (Wiki quoted) is located in Hamburg, a city with population of "merely" 2 millions.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

I saw Chicago Symphony Orchestra will be the first foreign orchestra to perform there. A beautiful hall.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Richard8655 said:


> I saw Chicago Symphony Orchestra will be the first foreign orchestra to perform there. A beautiful hall.


It looks stunning indeed.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

KenOC said:


> "The director of the Elbphilharmonie says that tickets to performances by resident ensembles, touring orchestras like the New York Philharmonic and Chicago Symphony, chamber music, new music and jazz alike are all bought up within hours."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/...itectural-gift-to-gritty-hamburg-germany.html


Most of tickets for all performances of the entire season are already sold out, all the way to June.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

jurianbai said:


> Good to see that million/billion of money still invested in classical music industry. It's provocative to see one of largest and most acoustical advanced (Wiki quoted) is located in Hamburg, a city with population of "merely" 2 millions.


It is the second biggest city in Germany. Berlin is bigger, but they would probably not afford it.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

They claim that this concert-hall has the best acoustics to date. I would like the first TC visitor to report on this.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The first recording is already made in that hall :

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/sinfonien-3-4/hnum/5683441


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

TxllxT said:


> They claim that this concert-hall has the best acoustics to date. I would like the first TC visitor to report on this.
> 
> img


Amazing! I would like to see TC report on this also. I googled and it said "only" 2073 seat capacity. Compared to this list of concert halls.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

https://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article161123854/Wo-hoert-man-denn-nun-am-besten.html

Dutch reports are quite critical: the acoustics are against the violins and in favour of oboes & clarinets - on the shrill side. But that can be mended, I suppose.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> From under 900 million to 6 billion - that is quite a leap of imagination...
> 
> Yes, it is very expensive. And yes, there have been delays and scandals during the building. But it is also beautiful, and a project that I believe, we classical fans should rather support than criticize. And isn't it what makes a country like Germany into a civilized, cultured nation - the ability to finance the achievements of human spirit, like music, architecture and other arts, rather than only the mere necessities?


Agreed. Of course, it helps that since the end of WW II, the NATO has preferred that resources formerly devoted to the German Military be reallocated to cultural activities...


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

This is a very exciting time to come to live in Hamburg. The Elbphilharmonie is _everywhere_, looking down from posters and souvenirs and countless newspaper articles and photos. The old Starbucks where apart from coffee they sell concert and opera tickets, got renamed into Elbphilharmonie Kulturkafe. Even the local subway advertises with lines like this: "Can't find a parking spot at the Elphi? Ride the subway!" And the distinctive wavy silhouette of the real thing soars high above the city, seen from far away. I have been around there seven times during the last nine days - mostly wandering around the outside plaza 37 meters above the Elbe. Of course, there is not a slightest chance of coming at concert tickets before next season. And the more I visit her, the more I love her. Gosh, how I love her! My heart skips a beat whenever I come near her. I have even purchased my wedding outfit with the more long-time purpose of some day wearing it to the Elbphilharmonie in view. She is a real beauty, so proud, majestic and yet somehow very light, like a ship travelling full sail down the mighty river. She is a symbol of many things that are precious and dear to me: of music, of the German cultural drive, of my own new life in the city of Hamburg. She is almost like a living being with a soul of her own.

I remember reading about strange people who fell in love with the Berlin Wall (and actually added "Berliner-Mauer" to their last name) or with the Eiffel Tower. I am not so out there... yet..., but I think I can somewhat better understand these people now.

PS. I have just found the recent "Are you alone?" thread, the latest one bemoaning the loneliness of being a classical music minority and the possible oblivion of classical music some time in the future. I have not been free of this all-encompassing pessimism of course. But whenever I look up at that distinctive silhouette in the distance that has cost so much and has had so many hopes connected to it, I am reminded of the fact that I am most definitely not alone.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> This is a very exciting time to come to live in Hamburg. The Elbphilharmonie is _everywhere_, looking down from posters and souvenirs and countless newspaper articles and photos. The old Starbucks where apart from coffee they sell concert and opera tickets, got renamed into Elbphilharmonie Kulturkafe. Even the local subway advertises with lines like this: "Can't find a parking spot at the Elphi? Ride the subway!" And the distinctive wavy silhouette of the real thing soars high above the city, seen from far away. I have been around there seven times during the last nine days - mostly wandering around the outside plaza 37 meters above the Elbe. Of course, there is not a slightest chance of coming at concert tickets before next season. And the more I visit her, the more I love her. Gosh, how I love her! My heart skips a beat whenever I come near her. I have even purchased my wedding outfit with the more long-time purpose of some day wearing it to the Elbphilharmonie in view. She is a real beauty, so proud, majestic and yet somehow very light, like a ship travelling full sail down the mighty river. She is a symbol of many things that are precious and dear to me: of music, of the German cultural drive, of my own new life in the city of Hamburg. She is almost like a living being with a soul of her own.
> 
> I remember reading about strange people who fell in love with the Berlin Wall (and actually added "Berliner-Mauer" to their last name) or with the Eiffel Tower. I am not so out there... yet..., but I think I can somewhat better understand these people now.
> 
> PS. I have just found the recent "Are you alone?" thread, the latest one bemoaning the loneliness of being a classical music minority and the possible oblivion of classical music some time in the future. I have not been free of this all-encompassing pessimism of course. But whenever I look up at that distinctive silhouette in the distance that has cost so much and has had so many hopes connected to it, I am reminded of the fact that I am most definitely not alone.


Good to see you back.:cheers:


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Today at the Elbphilharmonie the Staatskapelle Dresden under Christian Thielemann is playing Wagner - the extracts from Die Walküre and Götterdämmerung, some of the best music in the universe. But for now I am a silent onlooker, out there in the half-darkness.

From the height of the Elbphilharmonie plaza, 37 meters above the Elbe, one can look into the heart of Hamburg like from no other place. The great river, the ships coming in to port or taking out to sea - huge container vessels, led by the pilot boats on their course, barges, small passenger boats that function as public transportation here, and occassionally a gigantic snow-white cruise beauty. The ships under loading, the docks, the cranes - Europe's second biggest port, the industrial heart of Germany, full of never ceasing activity without which the city of Hamburg would have never come up with the money to build the Elbphilharmonie. I walk around and take a look in all directions. There is the Köhlbrand Bridge, swung in an elegant arch high above the harbor. There is the church of St. Michaelis with its tall, completely lit spire - also a beauty in white and gold. And between them a sea of lights. I look down on all this, on the portal of the Elbphilharmonie behind me (Großer Saal, Kleiner Saal - the inscriptions on the entrances to both halls are in German only), on the great river, and think the words that supposedly belong to Richard Wagner after hearing his beloved Freischütz for the first time in Paris: "_Wie ist mir wohl, dass ich ein Deutscher bin_" - how good it is, that I am a German.

There will be summer concerts in August - not all of them classical though, the tickets for which will be sold starting from February 15th. I think I am going to pitch a tent in front of the ticket office so I can be the first one in the morning.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

*Bragging time!*

SiegendesLicht is going to the Elphi!!!

Only to the smaller Recital Hall (Kleiner Saal) so far - that is what I have been able to obtain today. Over 2.000 tickets for the opening of the new season in September (the NDR Orchestra playing Beethoven) were gone within an hour this morning, before I even got to the cashiers' stand. The online purchase website was overloaded and even more hopeless. But I am very happy to have got what I did, and I won't have to wait until September. Here is the concert program https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/whats-on/ndr-chor-florian-helgath/8515 and the ticket itself:















The second one is for Bach's St. Matthew's Passion in April at the Church of St. Michaelis here in Hamburg. It will be performed by musicians of the same NDR Orchestra that resides at the Elbphilharmonie.

And next time I will really have to pitch a tent the night before!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

TxllxT said:


> They claim that this concert-hall has the best acoustics to date. *I would like the first TC visitor to report on this*.


_Es ist vollbracht!_ Last night: Mahler's 8 - also known as Symphony of a Thousand - at the Elbphilharmonie.

Now, I am not by any means an expert on concert hall acoustics - and I have not even been in that many concert halls in my life so as to be in a position to judge the merits of the Elphi in comparison say, with the Met or with Bayreuth Festspielhaus. If TC wants a real expert opinion, we should make a collection and send someone like Woodduck over here, not me who just happens to live in Hamburg. A concert goer who has been at it for many decades might have been less impressed - who knows. As for me - I had the time of my life. I could hear the subtle things in the music that I really never paid attention to while listening to the 8th on recordings. That, combined with the sheer power of the orchestra and the three participating choirs (two adult, one children's choir - all wearing dark blue robes somewhat reminiscent of the Grail knights from Parsifal) made for a fantastic experience. It was not exactly a thousand, but it sounded pretty close to that. The high points of the piece were louder than many a metal show I used to attend back in my wild youth, and the elderly lady next to me kept putting fingers into her ears. But at the same time I could hear every instrument separately. The voices of the soloists did sometimes sound just a bit unclear and drowned out by the orchestra.

The Great Hall itself, which looks really large on photos, in reality seemed not all that large to me. Supposedly no seat in the hall is farther than 20 m. from the orchestra. Mine was on a balcony right behind the orchestra, so I got a nice view of the latter as well (I especially enjoyed watching the brass section in action: beautiful shining instruments producing sounds of exquisite warmth that envelop you like a comfy blanket on a rainy day in Hamburg - you can almost physically feel them.) The decoration and the lighting are kept in subdued, gentle colors so as to create a rather intimate, almost chamber-music atmosphere. And the views from the foyer windows - over the Port of Hamburg and over the beautiful city itself become ever grander the higher up you go on the multiple floors and stairs of the Elphi.

Some time just before the end of the symphony my thoughts wandered off for a few seconds, and when they came back to the music, I thought "Wait, wait, let in not be the end just now! Let the music rise once again." And oh did it rise! During the finale I felt as if I could step over the barrier of the balcony and walk on the sound waves carried across the hall, like Jesus walked on water. And then a few seconds of silence and a standing ovation that lasted, by my calculation, about 15 minutes. And after it was over, many of the visitors (me included) did not make the usual dash for the garderobe, but lingered inside, walked around the hall, went for another drink and admired the scenic views out of the windows.

What a night! What a symphony! What an Elphi!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

the building looks quite ugly to me.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ That's OK, people are entitled to their tastes.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

norman bates said:


> the building looks quite ugly to me.


I hope it sounds wonderful because, agreeing with you, I think it looks pretty horrible (although I have seen worse). Here in Baltimore, some years ago, they erected a new building as part of the Maryland Institute for the Arts, which is in a mostly traditional historic area. It is a very modern building, and opinion is still sharply divided. It is either a magnificent statement about modern architecture or the ugliest eyesore in Baltimore (for which I am sad to say it has more than a little competition). To me, it looks like a huge pile of moldy lime jello.

Edit: I must substantially revise my original statement as I see that the first image I saw, posted above, appears to be a cross section, and thus not a fair representation. The images in the initial post are not nearly so horrible, and the inside looks okay to my eyes. (And the building does not look out of place in its context of other modern buildings.)


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

Athens forced the weaker members of the Delian League to pay for the Parthenon, until they finally rebelled in the Pelopennesian war, which basically destroyed Greece. It wasn't worth it, and this ain't no Parthenon.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ That's OK, people are entitled to their tastes.


Is it overwhelming when you approach the building itself?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

JAS said:


> I hope it sounds wonderful because, agreeing with you, I think it looks pretty horrible (although I have seen worse). Here in Baltimore, some years ago, they erected a new building as part of the Maryland Institute for the Arts, which is in a mostly traditional historic area. It is a very modern building, and opinion is still sharply divided. It is either a magnificent statement about modern architecture or the ugliest eyesore in Baltimore (for which I am sad to say it has more than a little competition). To me, it looks like a huge pile of moldy lime jello.


If you are talking about this building in Baltimore:









then I agree, it looks bad. But then the Elbphilharmonie is a whole different animal. I believe the architects wanted to capitalize on its "maritime" setting: out on the river Elbe, in the middle of a major port city, among all kinds of ships great and small. So they created something that resembles a frozen wave, or an iceberg, or a ship with sails, depending on the angle. And yes, most architecture in its immediate surroundings is modern office buildings - and a lot of water.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Is it overwhelming when you approach the building itself?


I find it quite impressive, especially when standing right next to it and looking upward. Judging by the crowds who come over there, I am not the only one impressed. There is a viewing platform of sorts, called the Elbphilharmonie Plaza, up there where the glass facade meets the brick foundation, and it is always full of selfy-taking tourists.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Magnum Miserium said:


> Athens forced the weaker members of the Delian League to pay for the Parthenon, until they finally rebelled in the Pelopennesian war, which basically destroyed Greece. It wasn't worth it, and this ain't no Parthenon.


I would counsel you not to hold your breath waiting for the same to happen to Germany


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> If you are talking about this building in Baltimore . . . then I agree, it looks bad.


That is actually a much more flattering image than it really looks like in person. (It probably helps that it is at night, and the lights partially mask its overall ugliness.)

The wavy top of the Elbphilharmonie is somewhat interesting, and certainly an impressive feat of engineering. (And it does seem to play on the setting by the water, which is at least apt.)


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I had to check out the upcoming concerts there. My picks are all sold out. Please take me there <3


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> I had to check out the upcoming concerts there. My picks are all sold out. Please take me there <3


12.06 is your day - that's when the next batch of tickets, for season 2017/2018 will be sold. Or alternatively, you can just come to Hamburg, get in line to the ticket office some three hours before your desired concert and patiently wait. With a bit of luck there will be some unclaimed or returned tickets available. That is how I got mine for Mahler's 8th last night.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

JAS said:


> That is actually a much more flattering image than it really looks like in person. (It probably helps that it is at night, and the lights partially mask its overall ugliness.)
> 
> The wavy top of the Elbphilharmonie is somewhat interesting, and certainly an impressive feat of engineering. (And it does seem to play on the setting by the water, which is at least apt.)


Well, that is what the Elbphilharmonie looks like at night:









(I would have posted some of my own photos, but my equipment is not anywhere good enough to do it justice)

The three cranes you can see upfront are now merely decorations, left as a memory of the time when the brick foundation used to be a historical warehouse where coffee and cacao was stored.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Well, that is what the Elbphilharmonie looks like at night:
> 
> View attachment 93956
> 
> ...


Look stunning, must dig up some old relatives who are living somewher in Hamburg.
Cousins, twice removed or something like that.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Look stunning, must dig up some old relatives who are living somewher in Hamburg.
> Cousins, twice removed or something like that.


Come over here, and I will give you a tour. I am itching to give someone a tour of Hamburg


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I would counsel you not to hold your breath waiting for the same to happen to Germany


Why not? The only question is whether your current system will fail when you've sucked the rest of Europe dry or when the rest of Europe leaves you before you can finish the job.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ I have a lot to say to that, but I really do not want to get this particular thread shut down, so I will merely kindly request to keep the politics out of it.


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ I have a lot to say to that, but I really do not want to get this particular thread shut down, so I will merely kindly request to keep the politics out of it.


Well you're the one who took us from Ancient Greek to modern German politics, but okay. Please feel free to PM me with whatever you have to say.

Back to the concert hall: "love" how all you have to do is take a '70s beige desert of an interior, make it curvy, and the critics call it "warm."


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

SiegendesLicht said:


> _Es ist vollbracht!_ Last night: Mahler's 8 - also known as Symphony of a Thousand - at the Elbphilharmonie.
> 
> Now, I am not by any means an expert on concert hall acoustics - and I have not even been in that many concert halls in my life so as to be in a position to judge the merits of the Elphi in comparison say, with the Met or with Bayreuth Festspielhaus. If TC wants a real expert opinion, we should make a collection and send someone like Woodduck over here, not me who just happens to live in Hamburg. A concert goer who has been at it for many decades might have been less impressed - who knows. As for me - I had the time of my life. I could hear the subtle things in the music that I really never paid attention to while listening to the 8th on recordings. That, combined with the sheer power of the orchestra and the three participating choirs (two adult, one children's choir - all wearing dark blue robes somewhat reminiscent of the Grail knights from Parsifal) made for a fantastic experience. It was not exactly a thousand, but it sounded pretty close to that. The high points of the piece were louder than many a metal show I used to attend back in my wild youth, and the elderly lady next to me kept putting fingers into her ears. But at the same time I could hear every instrument separately. The voices of the soloists did sometimes sound just a bit unclear and drowned out by the orchestra.
> 
> ...


Thanks to you, I have just begun to explore the Elbphilharmonie (and your concert review posts)--I am starting with the Grand Hall. I adore the white!!! (I am listening to one of my favorite concerts on the DCH--a Vivaldi concert: joyful stuff and drinking a very bold but smooth Irish blend tea.)










https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/elbphilharmonie

The gypsum reminds me of travertine; I brought several pieces home from my visit to the Getty Museum.


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## Omicron9 (Oct 13, 2016)

What a great thread!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

At the danger of veering into politics again: on July 7th, the first day of the G20 meeting in Hamburg (which has already become infamous) Trump and Putin together are going to enjoy a concert at the Elbphilharmonie. Which means I will not be able to enjoy a glass of champagne there on my own friggin' birthday!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

_Stark und schön
steht er zur Schau;
hehrer, herrlicher Bau!_

Strong and beautiful
it stands on show,
a sublime, majestic building!

Guess which opera I have heard at the Elbphilharmonie tonight :tiphat:

PS. I love you, Elphi. You are so good to me - I get tickets to the concerts that are officially all sold out. I get to meet nice people and have all my musical dreams come true. I will see you again, darling - soon.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> _Stark und schön
> steht er zur Schau;
> hehrer, herrlicher Bau!_
> 
> ...


Your other half not jealous?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Your other half not jealous?


I knew this question would come soon  I have plenty of love for both - just different kinds.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> _Stark und schön
> steht er zur Schau;
> hehrer, herrlicher Bau!_
> 
> ...


Glad you were successful!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Annied said:


> Glad you were successful!


Thanks! It was a wonderful Wagnerian experience for all of 10 Euro. Detailed report:

http://www.talkclassical.com/5564-latest-concerts-72.html?highlight=#post1248355


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Thanks! It was a wonderful Wagnerian experience for all of 10 Euro. I will write a detailed report tomorrow.


Oh wow, what a bargain!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Annied said:


> Oh wow, what a bargain!


And before it was Mahler's Eighth for exactly 8 Euro. These very inexpensive seats are situated mostly somewhere behind the orchestra, but the acoustic impression does not lose anything. And I got to sit just next to the guys with the hammers who played the hammering Nibelungs during the scene of the Gods' descent into Nibelheim.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

We in the UK can only sigh when we read this and no doubt members in the US, who will be facing similar cuts in arts financing as a result of Philistine governments, will be reacting in a similar fashion.


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## Magnum Miserium (Aug 15, 2016)

SiegendesLicht said:


> _Stark und schön
> steht er zur Schau;
> hehrer, herrlicher Bau!_


I can't resist.

_Ihrem Ende eilen sie zu,
die so stark in Bestehen sich wähnen.
Fast schäm' ich mich,
mit ihnen zu schaffen;_


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ The worthy sir is well-versed in Wagner - very nice. You must be one of those



manyene said:


> ... members in the US, who will be facing similar cuts in arts financing as a result of Philistine governments...


I absolutely feel your pain.

And to be serious, I am very happy and proud to be living in Germany. The Elbphilharmonie is just one of the multiple reasons for that.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

**cough, cough* Your reporter from Elbphilharmonie Hamburg broadcasts again*

A couple pictures from yesterday, as the sale of tickets for the season 2017/18 at the Elbphilharmonie began:

















I was there at 6 AM and hoped to be one of the first, but some people spent a night over there, so I ended up at place 51. People with sleeping bags, people with foldable chairs, people with thermos bottles - a veritable camping place. And it was a very special atmosphere - hundreds of people united by love of music, ready to sacrifice their time and strength for it.

Seven hours later, by the time I made it to the ticket office, some concerts were already sold out: Murray Perahia and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields performing all of Beethoven's piano concertos, Anne-Sophie Mutter, the Daniel Barenboim piano concert, the Jonas Kaufmann/Diana Damrau recital of Hugo Wolf lieder and almost all concerts of the Elphi's home orchestra, NDR. But I did get quite a few of my desired tickets: Bruckner, Mahler, Mozart, Sibelius, Andreas Scholl, Matthias Goerne singing Winterreise, chamber music of Mendelssohn and Schumann, and more Schubert lieder. This day was entirely worth it. All in all, about 95 000 tickets were sold yesterday, both at "physical" ticket offices and online.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

*NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchester*
opening concert.
Benjamin Britten (1913-1976), Henri Dutilleux (1916-2013), Emilio de' Cavalieri (1550-1602), Bernd Alois Zimmermann (1918-1970), Jacob Praetorius (1586-1651), Rolf Liebermann (1910-1999), Giulio Caccini (1545-1618), Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Richard Wagner (1813-1883), Wolfgang Rihm (geb. 1952), Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827) 
Mitwirkende: Philippe Jaroussky, Hanna-Elisabeth Müller, Wiebke Lehmkuhl, Pavol Breslik, Bryn Terfel, NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchester, Thomas Hengelbrock

Watch out SiegendesLicht release June 30th.

Just a tip.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks for the tip! I'd rather wish they released it on DVD, if only for the visual of Thomas Hengelbrock singing "Alle Menschen werden Brüder!!!..." along with the choir. So much joy!

This morning I found myself in the local newspaper Hamburger Abendblatt in a photo of the crowds at the ticket office of the Elphi. First time I've got in a newspaper


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Thanks for the tip! I'd rather wish they released it on DVD, if only for the visual of Thomas Hengelbrock singing "Alle Menschen werden Brüder!!!..." along with the choir. So much joy!
> 
> This morning I found myself in the local newspaper Hamburger Abendblatt in a photo of the crowds at the ticket office of the Elphi. First time I've got in a newspaper


I am so sorry if I was not clear enough but I mean this is a DVD:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/de...orchester-das-eroeffnungskonzert/hnum/7119806


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Courtesy of Vaneyes: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/...g-elbphilharmonie-new-york-philharmonicl.html

Starting 2019 the position of chief conductor of the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchester - the resident orchestra of the Elphi - is taken up by Alan Gilbert, who is leaving the New York Philharmonic in order to lead the Hamburgers.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

TxllxT said:


> This brandnew concerthall in Hamburg will cost 6 billion Euros. Your comments please.............


Very impressive, though I've seen speaker cables recommended in the audiophile subforum that are more expensive.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ Maybe it was the cables they used that drove up the costs.

And seriously, the costs of the upcoming meeting of the so-called "G20" in Hamburg in July are estimated to be around 130 million Euro. That is 1/6 of the Elbphilharmonie (of the official cost estimate, not the fantastic number the OP's source pulled out of who-knows-where) - just for two days of His Orangeness and his cohorts making the life of ordinary Hamburgers a mess with their security measures. Compared to _that_, the Elbphilharmonie is not expensive. At all.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Elbphilharmonie, yet another strain for my already ruptured bucket list.

Another amazing external view.










Reference:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/...itectural-gift-to-gritty-hamburg-germany.html


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ... Alan Gilbert, who is leaving the New York Philharmonic in order to lead the Hamburgers.


Not exactly! ..............


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> Elbphilharmonie, yet another strain for my already ruptured bucket list.
> 
> Another amazing external view.


Just dump the bucket list and come to Hamburg


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

This Week is the Hamburg Pride Week, and the Elphi shines in rainbow colors - more beautiful than ever. (And of course I have again left my camera at home  ) Celebrating love, freedom and music - what can be better?

Edit: I did find a nice picture on the internet.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Exactly one day and 11 hours left until the first concert in this season I am going to attend. I love you; I miss you; I will see you soon, Elphi.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Aesthetically tasteless, though the acoustics may well be good. No offence, city of Brahms!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Brahms would have enjoyed watching the waves from up there - the waves of the Elbe, that is. And from here those waves most certainly go out to sea - both literally and metaphorically.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

The figure I found was a final cost of €789m. I suspect Hamburg needed this? London needs one too. Are we all going to moan when Simon Rattle gets behind some expensive project that will finally bring a decent concert hall to the capital?
A funny little Russian chap has spent 50% more than the Hamburg figure on Chelsea FC. I stress on a football club. That puts the value of this cool looking building into perspective.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ The official cost estimate is €866 mio. The number in the original post is overblown to absurdity.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ The official cost estimate is €866 mio. The number in the original post is overblown to absurdity.


Nobody knows what anything costs anymore--especially when you factor in currency fluctuations, inflation and so forth. For example, new members may be surprised that a "like" had been worth as much as $15 before the Current Listening threads came along.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Improbus said:


> *Aesthetically tasteless*, though the acoustics may well be good. No offence, city of Brahms!


Er, really?


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

https://www.bauwesen.co/elbphilharmonie-kosten

(with Google translate you can read anything). Quote from this article: 'culture takes the place of religion'.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ Three sentences later: "Ein kleines Weltwunder..." - "a little wonder of the world"... - I really really like that  I will read the rest when I get home after Mahler's 9th tomorrow. If tickets will still be available that is.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I got home after Mahler's 9th today - and by now I really don't care how much the Elbphilharmonie cost, whether 866 million, or 6 billion or even 866 billion (there is an expressive German saying - _mir ist es völlig wurscht!_) When you are seated there inside the great hall, and the music rises all around you and washes over you, and it feels like this flood lifts you up and carries you to some wonderful place - then the issue of costs for this wonder becomes not even secondary. Medieval alchemists sought a for way to turn inexpensive metals into gold, hoping to get rich this way. I would say turning euro bills into fine music is a more potent kind of magic.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2017)

Mir ist es völlig wurscht! Living in Germany starts to have an effect on you.:lol: Yesterday and today I listened to the same symphony,not in a concerthall but cosy in my armchair with Herr von Karajan.
A live recording,quite impressive .


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Mahler's 9th is a most beautiful symphony, and Herr von Karajan is a great conductor. Today's performance with Thomas Hengelbrock and the NDR Orchestra is supposed to be released on CD some time in the future as well, by the way. 

Next week the Elbphilharmonie is going to receive some special guests: the Cleveland Orchestra and its conductor Franz Welser-Möst. On Wednesday they are going to perform another of Mahler's symphonies: the 6th, which also contains a beautiful slow movement. And guess what? Wednesday just happens to be my day off! And what does that mean? It means that with a little bit of luck I can get not just one, but two great Mahlerian experiences in a single week! This time I will have to get in line really early, if I want a ticket though.

Do you see now why I enjoy living in Germany?


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

jurianbai said:


> Amazing! I would like to see TC report on this also. I googled and it said "only" 2073 seat capacity. Compared to this list of concert halls.


Good. And good that they stuck to that. Remember that the main hall in Lincoln Center in NYC (formerly Avery Fishcer Hall, now Geffen Hall) was ruined from an acoustic standpoint because they actually listened to a newspaper campaign that the originally planned somewhat smaller hall was beneath the might and grandeur of New York City! They have been struggling to fix it's acoustics since then!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ Just where do all these strange numbers come up from? The seat capacity is 2150 for the great hall, and 550 for the smaller recital hall.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Traverso said:


> Mir ist es völlig wurscht! Living in Germany starts to have an effect on you.:lol: Yesterday and today I listened to the same symphony,not in a concerthall but cosy in my armchair with Herr von Karajan.
> A live recording,quite impressive .


I am listening to the slow movement of Mahler's 6th with Herr von Karajan right now and imagining myself sitting on a balcony of the great hall of the Elphi on Wednesday and hearing these same sounds soar up from down below, conjured by the Clevelandians and Maestro Welser-Möst. Goosebumps, chills and thrills just from thinking about it.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I have said a few times before that I believe the Elbphilharmonie is worth any amount of money the building might have cost. Today was an example of "practice what you preach" or "how much does the Elbphilharmonie cost to YOU?" Part 3 of my concert marathon - the Clevelandians and Mahler's 6th - has happened after all - but I got to pay way up and above what I could normally afford for a classical concert. On the way to the ticket office I thought "if the tickets in the highest price category are the only ones left, then I will just walk away" - and of course I could not find it in me to walk away. So I got a seat just about two meters behind the back of Franz Welser-Möst and got a nice view of him conducting his orchestra with utmost precision. Oh well, if you are in love, you should be prepared to make sacrifices. And to suffer a bit as well as experience great joy. And tonight I just about wanted to go out above the river and shout "I love you Elphi!!!" for the entire city of Hamburg to hear. Of course I did not do that. What does music cost? Anything, just about anything.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I have said a few times before that I believe the Elbphilharmonie is worth any amount of money the building might have cost. Today was an example of "practice what you preach" or "how much does the Elbphilharmonie cost to YOU?" Part 3 of my concert marathon - the Clevelandians and Mahler's 6th - has happened after all - but I got to pay way up and above what I could normally afford for a classical concert. On the way to the ticket office I thought "if the tickets in the highest price category are the only ones left, then I will just walk away" - and of course I could not find it in me to walk away. So I got a seat just about two meters behind the back of Franz Welser-Möst and got a nice view of him conducting his orchestra with utmost precision. Oh well, if you are in love, you should be prepared to make sacrifices. And to suffer a bit as well as experience great joy. And tonight I just about wanted to go out above the river and shout "I love you Elphi!!!" for the entire city of Hamburg to hear. Of course I did not do that. What does music cost? Anything, just about anything.


I am just curious, what is the price for a premium seat ticket? I still get the impression European ticket prices are a lot lower than in the US.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

It was a US orchestra on tour actually  140 Euro it was (I hope my husband doesn not get the idea to come read this thread!) OK, it is not really a fortune (I paid more for Bayreuth back in summer), but still much more than I usually pay for a ticket. I wonder what it would cost in the US?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Look SiegendsLicht:

http://www.klassikakzente.de/echo-k...t=textLink&utm_campaign=dgg-ka-nwl-kw-43-2017


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Look SiegendsLicht:
> 
> http://www.klassikakzente.de/echo-k...t=textLink&utm_campaign=dgg-ka-nwl-kw-43-2017


Yes, the Elphi is the new cool venue in Germany for all kinds of events, especially classical-related. I will probably watch it. But still, there is nothing comparable with being there in person, seated within those walls. Especially during the slow movements of the two Mahler symphonies I have had the joy to hear during the last few days, it seemed as if the walls themselves gleamed with a light of their own while that music reflected off them.

As a postscriptum to the great and glorious events of these last days, a report on the Clevelandians' performance from my favorite classical blog (sorry, in German only): http://klassik-begeistert.de/the-cl...mahler-sinfonie-nr-6-elbphilharmonie-hamburg/



> ... This is overpowering music - and the Cleveland Orchestra presents it in an overpowering manner.
> 
> The conductor Franz Welser-Möst dissolves himself in the music. Sometimes he spreads out his arms, like an eagle, and one has a feeling as if he would like to rise up together with the music. It is clear: this man loves music!
> 
> The happy ones who could attend this concert, experiensed a gigantic joy of music... The Americans let a wild storm rush through the Elbphilharmonie and let sparks fly....


And that is exactly how it was.

And from the very first report of this same blogger about the newly built Elbphilharmonie - written even before a single note of music resounded within her walls:



> The Elbphilharmonie invites you to dream. She says: come again, here you will find your happiness.


And that is exactly what has happened to me.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> It was a US orchestra on tour actually  140 Euro it was (I hope my husband doesn not get the idea to come read this thread!) OK, it is not really a fortune (I paid more for Bayreuth back in summer), but still much more than I usually pay for a ticket. I wonder what it would cost in the US?


US $100 to 120 for premium seats in Symphony hall in Boston (Boston Symphony Orchestra), US $ 30 to 40 for the cheapest seats. Lincoln Center and the NY Philharmonic used to be similar. I am not an opera buff, so no knowledge there, but I think the Met Opera could be quite a bit more. I attended only one performance in London this year, but I got the impression that ticket prices in London were a lot less during my visit last May.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ Opera tickets seem to be always the most expensive.

Prices for the Elbphilharmonie tickets vary wildly, depending on the performers and the works. For example, on the program for the next week stand Murray Perahia and the Academy of St.-Martin-in-the-Fields performing Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto - with tickets up to the same 140 Euro (USD165) as well as a modern work - Gérard Grisey's Les espaces acoustiques performed by the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra - with premium seats going for only 42 Euro.

The interesting part is that "officially", in the online ticket-shop, *everything* is sold out, the entire season 2017/2018. The only way to obtain a ticket is to get yourself to the physical ticket office inside the Elbphilharmonie, preferably around 3 hours before the desired concert. The sale of the remaining unclaimed and returned tickets begins 1,5 hours before, and by this time the line grows to an impressive size. The Elphi is a queen that rewards the dedicated and the patient. And this young Luddite who absolutely does not want her musical happiness to be dependent on crush-prone online shops, wishes for it to remain that way 

I actually find something nice even about this whole waiting in line thing. The best are the Sunday morning concerts. I am absolutely not a morning person, and I usually work in the afternoons, so it takes a special occasion like this to get me out of the house at the crack of dawn. But it is beautiful to make my way through the sleeping city, to take a stroll, coffee in hand, along the embankments of the Elbe and to watch the rising sun illuminate the gigantic glass fassade towering above me. The Elphi is a Gesamtkunstwerk in the Wagnerian sense, every part of the experience is wonderful. I wonder what Wagner would have to say about her, had he lived nowadays. Probably he would say "Meh, my opera house in Bayreuth is much better!", but maybe he would say "Wow, I want my Parsifal to be performed within these walls. And Das Rheingold of course!"

And this, my friends, is my 3 000th post on this forum, a praise to the queen of all concert halls.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ Opera tickets seem to be always the most expensive.
> 
> Prices for the Elbphilharmonie tickets vary wildly, depending on the performers and the works. For example, on the program for the next week stand Murray Perahia and the Academy of St.-Martin-in-the-Fields performing Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto - with tickets up to the same 140 Euro (USD165) as well as a modern work - Gérard Grisey's Les espaces acoustiques performed by the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra - with premium seats going for only 42 Euro.
> 
> ...


+3000: Congratulations and thanks!


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

SiegendesLicht said:


> For example, on the program for the next week stand Murray Perahia and the Academy of St.-Martin-in-the-Fields performing Beethoven's 5th Piano Concerto - with tickets up to the same 140 Euro (USD165)


... and I know that if the premium seats will be once again the only available ones for sale, I will not find it in me to walk away.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Just at this time today I was expecting to be getting to my seat inside the great hall of the Elbphilharmonie for another great concert night with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra lead by a young pretty female conductor - together with a friend of mine who I was also going to introduce to the exquisite pleasures of live classical. Two things have happened. First, the friend got her free day from work canceled. Second, as still I made my way to the ticket office on my own, I was greeted by an announcement: "There are no remaining tickets for tonight! No evening concert ticket sale will take place!" For the first time in my experience as a concert-goer in Hamburg, my queen Elphi shut the door in my face. It is not tragic, but somewhat disappointing. Oh well, I am going to snuggle up and listen to some Vaughan Williams or Walton instead - two composers who I have discovered pretty much because of the Elbphilharmonie program .


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> Just at this time today I was expecting to be getting to my seat inside the great hall of the Elbphilharmonie together for another great concert night with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra lead by a young pretty female conductor - together with a friend of mine who I was also going to introduce to the exquisite pleasures of live classical. Two things have happened. First, the friend got her free day from work canceled. Second, as still I made my way to the ticket office on my own, I was greeted by an announcement: "There are no remaining tickets for tonight! No evening concert ticket sale will take place!" For the first time in my experience as a concert-goer in Hamburg, my queen Elphi shut the door in my face. It is not tragic, but somewhat disappointing. Oh well, I am going to snuggle up and listen to some Vaughan Williams or Walton instead - two composers who I have discovered pretty much because of the Elbphilharmonie program .


Vaughan Williams and Walton,....... are you not forgetting someone?


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

^ This most wonderful singer I do not forget - ever


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2017)

SiegendesLicht said:


> ^ This most wonderful singer I do not forget - ever


:tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The Elbphilharmonie made _BBC's Best Buildings of 2017_:

"Opened to critical acclaim in January 2017, Hamburg's long-awaited and hugely expensive Elbphilarmonie was, perhaps, the architectural highlight of 2017, certainly in terms of new civic buildings. It ticks so many boxes. Here is an operatic yet perfectly sane design bringing richly dynamic new life into an old urban dockland that had lost much of its purpose. Its diaphanous structure rises in crystalline waves above a bunker-like brick coffee, chocolate and tea warehouse, anchoring Herzog & de Meuron's magnificent concert hall into the existing fabric of the German port city. The interior is an adventure, as those of all great concert halls and opera houses should be. And, this is a destination at which, especially on bitter winter days when Arctic winds whip across Hamburg's waterfront, visitors can while away hours browsing, dining, drinking, staring at the views or, of course, listening to music in enticing, pitch-perfect conditions."









"


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

What a nice tribute to our Elphi!

As this year 2017 draws to a close, and I am making a mental review of what has been so far the best year of my life, one statistic stands out: I have visited the Elbphilharmonie 56 times, 10 times in concert, the other 46 for enjoying the views. On January 11th, the first anniversary of the grand opening, I am going to be there again for a performance of Bruckner's 3rd - the one he dedicated to Wagner. The show must go on - and let it never end!


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