# The Perfect American Man by Philip Glass



## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ghtmarish-Walt-Disney-opera-comes-to-ENO.html

Is anyone going to see it?

Is it just me or there's a wave of a feeling to outcast Disney from our society?


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Must be kidding. There's no way I'd see anything written with Philip Glass soundtracks. 

I've still got to get through the other 6 CDs of his box set collection of film music which I bought about 10 years ago and played two discs once only to fall asleep play the second one, thinking that I hadn't played any, and then to realise that it was all so samey and tedious that I fell asleep again and never touched the box set or thought about it until this thread came up.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Must be kidding. There's no way I'd see anything written with Philip Glass soundtracks.
> 
> I've still got to get through the other 6 CDs of his box set collection of film music which I bought about 10 years ago and played two discs once only to fall asleep play the second one, thinking that I hadn't played any, and then to realise that it was all so samey and tedious that I fell asleep again and never touched the box set or thought about it until this thread came up.


I made it all the way through Koyaanisqatsi (de facto, i.e. I was brought along to the film's preview / premiere, of which I knew nothing, and later a friend had.a recording of his (1st) Violin Concerto, that, too, I made it all the way through. Neither left me with any scrap of desire to hear them again.

That was enough to know I was not going to sign up for or buy anything further: those few things I've briefly checked over time as he produced more got moments before I was completely done with them as well.

The music of Mr. Glass is just not my idea of fun....

The choice of book for a libretto could be fascinating and fantastic, or merely 'topical' and trendy' -- a matter apart to be decided if one attends a performance.

A critic's review after the premiere of Glass' Opera, Akhenaten (from my faulty memory, it ran something like this...)
_*"Pity the singer of Akhenaten.
He has just one note to emote on."*_


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> I made it all the way through Koyaanisqatsi


the fact that you spellt this correctly, makes me think that you must have liked his music more than I did to remember anything about it 

His titles were mellifluous and completely forgettable. Had it not been on sale for something like £4 for 8 CDs, I wouldn't have wasted £4.

His string quartets are almost as bad. I wasted $$$ (I got the American import version) on the Kronos Quartet's hype of Glass.

Crikes. I've wasted so much money buying CDs by this composer.

I want a refund!!!


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

"The 24th opera from Glass." My Lord, what a waste.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

dionisio said:


> ...Is anyone going to see it?...Is it just me or there's a wave of a feeling to outcast Disney from our society?


If there is any substance to the allegations in the book (by a disgruntled ex-employee) that Walt Disney was racist/anti-semitic, then it makes sense that Philip Glass (a New Yorker of immigrant descent) would want to have part in the dismantling of the legend; and conversely, it gives a meaning to this thread's opposing view.

But I will give dionisio, Head_case, PetrB, and Barelytenor the benefit of the doubt, and simply ask: what are you trying to accomplish in your collective hatred of Philip Glass, and by default, your defense of Walt Disney, who seems to be on his way to being the "Henry Ford" of cartoon fantasy?

Is there anything 'dark and sinister' behind this blabbering-out from the depths of your "collective id" that you guys are unconsciously revealing to us? Tell us all about it, please continue.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I knew a lot of people who worked with Walt Disney closely. He was no different than anyone else with his upbringing and generation. He was a midwestern boy with midwestern tastes and opinions. It isn't really fair to judge a person born in a different time and place by current standards.

That said, Walt had an autographed photo of Mussolini hanging on his office wall up until the late thirties when it quietly disappeared. Mussolini's son was a filmmaker and met with Walt a couple of times, as did Leni Riefenstahl. But that isn't to say that Walt was a fascist himself.

The book to Glass's opera is largely as much of a fantasy as the ones created by Disney himself.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

millionrainbows, i think i was missunderstood.

I do have any feelings of hatred towards anyone. Nor Glass nor Disney. On the other hand, i estimate Disney for what his world meant to us all (i'm assuming that everyone here grew up watching Disney cartoons).

But in these last years i've seen growing a negative publicity around Disney (whether it is the cartoons with sexual innuendos or about his anti-semitism). It's just strange to me connecting what Disney meant to me to what is the common sens today.

About Glass, nothing binds my gears. In fact anything at all.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> But I will give dionisio, Head_case, PetrB, and Barelytenor the benefit of the doubt, and simply ask: what are you trying to accomplish in your collective hatred of Philip Glass, and by default, your defense of Walt Disney, who seems to be on his way to being the "Henry Ford" of cartoon fantasy?


You don't need to give anyone the benefit of the doubt - perhaps just re-read the post carefully and realise that none of us have much interest in looking at a film which is associated with Philip Glass' soundtrack music, which we have not only heard; but bought; not just one CD, but several ..and had sufficient listening experience to qualify a simple decision that he is not of interest when it comes to our listening experience.

No justification required; no collective hatred either. Getting used to the idea, that Philip Glass' overrated film music (perhaps overrated by yourself, hmm?) is not rated very well here.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

On the subject of opera: Disney seems like exactly the kind of conflicted genius that Glass likes to portray (Einstein, Galileo, Gandhi). I've seen Akhnaten and Satyagraha and will be seeing his "Fall of the House of Usher" next month. His musical portrayals are certainly unique, but - to me anyway- also uniquely effective in portraying certain emotional states and temporal progress.

On the subject of soundtracks: I find soundtracks tedious to begin with. They are generally tailored for a very specific scene and segments are generally the length of a popular song or even less, hardly enough time for any sort of form or development or worthy material for stand-alone listening. In their original context, though, I find Glass's film scores compelling and effective for the same reasons as his opera scores. I can't be the only one to think so, given his three Academy Award nominations for Best Original Score.

I will confess that the one soundtrack I own is "Kundun" and that I have never listened to it all the way through either. I will further confess to a possible reason for a pro-Glass bias: I happened to meet him briefly when he was in the process of composing the "Kundun" score; a charming and fascinating individual.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> In their original context, though, I find Glass's film scores compelling and effective for the same reasons as his opera scores. I can't be the only one to think so, given his three Academy Award nominations for Best Original Score.


Curious to hear what you find compelling about his work.

The Academy Nominations means nothing to me - if it is a measure of the industry preferred artist or composer, or the best selling, then perhaps that is more reason to eschew it, on account of its commercial drive, rather than artistic integrity.

How do find film composers like Shostakovitch; Kilar; Preisner, in comparison to someone like Glass?

Glass is transparently thin: his works I own more of, than say, Shostakovich's filmworks.

Equally, a soundtrack perhaps is not the best reason to go to see a film. It's a great bonus if it's engaging.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Head_case said:


> Glass is transparently thin


:devil::tiphat:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Glass:
I've checked more than a few pieces along his progress: to date, it just has 'nothing going for it' to meet any of my personal criteria of 'what engages me.' I can't even dislike him because I find so little there. You have to love something first to come to hate it. _*(Now used almost as a ploy with the weight of emotional extortion, 'hate' is currently found in a variant contextual manner so sloppy and casual that it loses all its original depth of meaning.)*_

_What Gertrude Stein said of Oakland, California pretty much sums up what I think of the music of Glass -- when Stein was asked why she left Oakland, California, *"There is no there there."*_

I did not exaggerate -- As listener, I've 'successfully' made it through only two of his pieces. Each other I've tried, no matter what technical devices employed, rhythmic or harmonic, I feel as if I already know all the landscape along the way of what seems like a very slow trip, and that mere moments after the commencement of that journey. That is not what I listen to music for, ergo.... just off my list.

I am just not politically correct enough to worry if a few personal negative reviews are enough to hurt or harm any potential listener, fan-to-be, or current fan of this composer. All the negative or deterrent posts about 'atonality' have not hurt or swayed me one bit, for example. If Glass' music appeals, what is written on TC has no stunning weight, just as many a professional critical review has not kept many of us from liking what we like.

Disney:
I don't give a fig for Disney Co. post the full-length "Sleeping Beauty." Up to that point, Walt Sr. would take the collective capitol profits from the theme park, the other cartoons, and T.V. programs (Mickey Mouse Club) to fund those full-length animations, knowing they would not even pay their cost the first time out. Disney Sr. knew he was making classics: prior home media and owning a copy, the scheme was to run those films in theaters in seven year cycles, when another mini-generation of kids and their parents would fill the theaters. It worked. Perhaps the second run would bring in the full production cost, and some little profits - this is a lost idea in corporate ways of the present.

I laugh at the retrospective huzzah over the sexism, racism, etc. With no digging, it can be found just about everywhere in every advert, many a novel, and the culture and its products as a whole -- because that was what it was! The crows in Dumbo, if not yet censored out, are clearly black males from the American south, with the patois and 'accent' there from. If you happen to see that segment, they're not stupid, nothing 'negative' about them, but they do have their cultural speech and manner, and they're 'very real' down-to earth common sense crows at that. _Those films, and the short cartoons, still stand as some of the most artful hand-drawn frame for frame animations made._

This was a Disney which did NOT have figurines from the movies as franchised out to, made and distributed by, say Mattel, or franchised via McDonalds, the faces painted on in sweatshops for a few pennies paid out to Haitians. Nor were there $100 limited edition reproductions of Cruella DeVille's limousine for sale in 'Disney Shops.' Now that is a 'modern' evil empire, if you will, and perhaps a just target for bashing at least.

I don't give a fig if Walt Sr. was a nasty cheap autocrat - that was and is nothing unique in highly successful businessmen, though it is not a requisite for the role. As per the first Disney and animators' pay levels in the 1930's, 40's, 50's -- it is very easy to imagine both author and reader looking back at those, horrified, through a very fogged contemporary lens, forgetting what anyone was paid for any job..

ERGO: A more than currently trendy and fashionable 'tell all' bio on the market is less than surprising, any more than a contemporary opera composer choosing that as his subject.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> If there is any substance to the allegations in the book (by a disgruntled ex-employee) that Walt Disney was racist/anti-semitic, then it makes sense that Philip Glass (a New Yorker of immigrant descent) would want to have part in the dismantling of the legend; and conversely, it gives a meaning to this thread's opposing view.
> 
> But I will give dionisio, Head_case, PetrB, and Barelytenor the benefit of the doubt, and simply ask: what are you trying to accomplish in your collective hatred of Philip Glass, and by default, your defense of Walt Disney, who seems to be on his way to being the "Henry Ford" of cartoon fantasy?
> 
> Is there anything 'dark and sinister' behind this blabbering-out from the depths of your "collective id" that you guys are unconsciously revealing to us? Tell us all about it, please continue.


Thinking you evaluate, or at least give far too much value and weight to the 'blabberings' of dionisio, Head_case, me, Barelytenor -- and yourself.

I don't view any post of mine here as 'trying to accomplish' anything. Accomplishment for me has to do with other things, private, personal work, having nothing to do with internet fora 

Perhaps you put more importance to the fora than do I, or the others?

Having passed many academic tests, music and other, decades ago -- and many professional 'tests' for decades, and thinking you have too... the rest is opinion -- blurted, babbled, or not... with a goodly amount of time in thought behind it.

Whatever the merit, the outcome, of this new Glass opera, it is nearly inarguable that both libretto, the nature thereof, and the composer, add up to qualify as 'trendy.'

Nonetheless, your Noblesse Oblige in giving 'us' the benefit of the doubt is most gracious of you.


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> If there is any substance to the allegations in the book (by a disgruntled ex-employee) that Walt Disney was racist/anti-semitic, then it makes sense that Philip Glass (a New Yorker of immigrant descent) would want to have part in the dismantling of the legend; and conversely, it gives a meaning to this thread's opposing view.
> 
> But I will give dionisio, Head_case, PetrB, and Barelytenor the benefit of the doubt, and simply ask: what are you trying to accomplish in your collective hatred of Philip Glass, and by default, your defense of Walt Disney, who seems to be on his way to being the "Henry Ford" of cartoon fantasy?
> 
> Is there anything 'dark and sinister' behind this blabbering-out from the depths of your "collective id" that you guys are unconsciously revealing to us? Tell us all about it, please continue.


I am not trying to accomplish anything at all here and certainly don't hate Philip Glass or anybody else. I dislike his music, that is my preference. I find his music tedious and overly simplistic. I choose to listen to other music I find more rewarding. And I doubt I will ever listen to his 24th, 25th, or any other-th opera. Satyagraha was one of the few Live from the Met broadcasts I consciously chose to skip ... the previews were quite enough, thank you. And there is no "by default defense" (or rejection, or endorsement, or any other stance) of Walt Disney or anybody else. If Glass wrote an opera about Cinderella, I wouldn't choose to listen to it, either. That does not imply I have an opinion on the merits of her tale.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Head_case said:


> You don't need to give anyone the benefit of the doubt - perhaps just re-read the post carefully and realise that none of us have much interest in looking at a film which is associated with Philip Glass' soundtrack music, which we have not only heard; but bought; not just one CD, but several ..and had sufficient listening experience to qualify a simple decision that he is not of interest when it comes to our listening experience.
> 
> No justification required; no collective hatred either. Getting used to the idea, that Philip Glass' overrated film music (perhaps overrated by yourself, hmm?) is not rated very well here.


Well, thank you for enlightening me, Head_case. What a fascinating thread this is!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Thinking you evaluate, or at least give far too much value and weight to the 'blabberings' of dionisio, Head_case, me, Barelytenor -- and yourself.
> 
> I don't view any post of mine here as 'trying to accomplish' anything. Accomplishment for me has to do with other things, private, personal work, having nothing to do with internet fora
> 
> Perhaps you put more importance to the fora than do I, or the others?


I guess that when your freedom of expression via the internet is taken away, you will appreciate its worth.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Barelytenor said:


> ...Philip Glass...I dislike his music, that is my preference. I find his music tedious and overly simplistic. I choose to listen to other music I find more rewarding. And I doubt I will ever listen to his 24th, 25th, or any other-th opera. Satyagraha was one of the few Live from the Met broadcasts I consciously chose to skip ... the previews were quite enough, thank you....If Glass wrote an opera about Cinderella, I wouldn't choose to listen to it, either....


Thanks so much for sharing your insights with us, Barelytenor.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I'll never forgive Glass for wallpapering over Tod Browning's Dracula. I've always said the film would be a lot better if a musical score was added to it. It was the early days of sound and dubbing was impossible, so there are long stretches of silence. But long stretches of Glass noodles are much worse. It's unlikely that anyone with a more sympathetic approach will ever be given the opportunity to do it right now that Glass has rubbed his spoor all over it.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

What was wrong with the original Scandinavian soundtrack to Tod's classic?






Ok..it wasn't scarey enough perhaps.

I'm rather a fan of Wojciech Kilar's Dracula soundtrack:










The Glass version is next to unlistenable for me after the first hearing.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

That isn't the soundtrack that's on the film. The yootoober added that.

I think they should have taken the scores to the other Universal horrors and edited them in. It would have been much more effective and idiomatic.

I remember when he first added his score to the film and reviewers were falling all over themselves to say that Glass had entered a new era of Wagnerian opulance... I went out to buy the CD and popped it on. Same old sheist.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Shame ...I quite liked it. 

I haven't watched the black and white original. Is it worth watching over the modern versions? 

Looking at the clips - the mirror scene on youtube showing Dracula's lack of mirror image was a fascinating point of cinematic invention! I wonder what the original producers would have made of the new CGI enhancements and digital soundtracks to generic swish and zoom! sounds.

It makes me think the film score to the 'Psycho' music was actually worthy of classic cult status.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Head_case said:


> It makes me think the film score to the 'Psycho' music was actually worthy of classic cult status.


I believe Hermann's score to that film already has classic status, and not just a cult one.

"To honor the 50th anniversary of Psycho, in July 2010, the San Francisco Symphony obtained a print of the film with the soundtrack removed, and projected it on a large screen in Davies Symphony Hall while the orchestra performed the score live. This was previously mounted by the Seattle Symphony in October 2009 as well, performing at the Benroya Hall for two consecutive evenings."


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