# Whistling Through Pursed Lips: An Interesting Phrnomenon?



## Strange Magic

An odd topic, to be sure. And maybe it belongs under Vocal Music. But it is interesting that, as one whistles a tune, one's mouth, lips, tongue, cheeks "instinctively" form just the correct architecture instantly to produce the desired note. No thought required, no experimentation; think of the next note and it's produced effortlessly.......


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## Open Book

Isn't singing the same? We don't know how we do it, but we can produce pretty much the correct pitch, most of us, when we sing. Half of what we have to do to get the whistle or sing at the correct pitch is invisible to us and we don't know how we do it. Although I'm sure there's a science to vocalization and teachers could tell us what muscles, etc. we need to use.

Even a non-musician like me can sing or whistle reasonably well. Well, tolerably well.


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## Woodduck

Pitch-finding in whistling seems even more amazing than it is in singing. We might at least try to explain the latter by reference to our constant vocalization from the moment we come into the world. Learning to speak involves learning to produce variations in pitch. But when and how do we learn to whistle? Do we practice finding pitches at first? I don't remember ever doing so, but I know I began whistling, and whistling in tune, rather early in life, and was quite a virtuoso at it in my high school and college years. Unfortunately there was no whistling major at my institution of higher learning.

Our brains and bodies seem wired together for the production of pitched sounds in more ways than we imagine.


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## flamencosketches

Definitely something you teach yourself how to do. For example, I can't do it at all because I've hardly spent any of my life trying to practice at it. Can barely even get a pitch let alone create a melody.


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## Strange Magic

flamencosketches said:


> Definitely something you teach yourself how to do. For example, I can't do it at all because I've hardly spent any of my life trying to practice at it. Can barely even get a pitch let alone create a melody.


Also quite interesting! Maybe whistling is akin to bicycle riding: once grasped, never forgotten and instinctively done. Shoelace-tying and clothes-buttoning may fall into that category also. But whistling seems the greater accomplishment, in that a flute-like instrument can be mastered by children, without effort, playing by ear alone. Are there other posters who do not or cannot whistle, or who require practice and study?


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## Larkenfield

Strange Magic said:


> An odd topic, to be sure. And maybe it belongs under Vocal Music. But it is interesting that, as one whistles a tune, one's mouth, lips, tongue, cheeks "instinctively" form just the correct architecture instantly to produce the desired note. No thought required, no experimentation; think of the next note and it's produced effortlessly.......


Wow. I never thought of that, but I just tried it and it's true: you can hear a note in your head and the lips will purse to produce that tone in a whistle. Delightful... There _is_ a God.


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## Strange Magic

I attribute my whistling ability to my mother .


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## Open Book

flamencosketches said:


> Definitely something you teach yourself how to do. For example, I can't do it at all because I've hardly spent any of my life trying to practice at it. Can barely even get a pitch let alone create a melody.


I can't do one of those super loud whistles where you put a forefinger in each corner of your mouth. This would be useful for showing one's feelings at public events but I can't get any sound at all. I haven't really tried hard, though.


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## isorhythm

I do remember having to teach myself to whistle. I decided I wanted to be able to whistle when I was maybe around 10 years old, and I practiced while walking to and from school.

My problem was just producing the sound, though. Controlling the pitch was effortless as soon as I could produce the sound.

I wonder if it's so different from singing. Maybe there's some kind of very efficient ear-brain-muscle feedback loop that happens in a fraction of a second when we begin to make a sound, that allows us to land on the correct pitch so quickly that it seems instantaneous?


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## Strange Magic

Open Book said:


> I can't do one of those super loud whistles where you put a forefinger in each corner of your mouth. This would be useful for showing one's feelings at public events but I can't get any sound at all. I haven't really tried hard, though.


I suffer from the same disability. All the cool kids could do that, but I never mastered it. There is also cupping the hands to form an ocarina-like resonance chamber, then blowing between your bent thumbs to produce a variable whistle by manipulating chamber size and shape. Am only occasionally successful at that.


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## Open Book

Musical instruments are like tools and not all of us are tool users. We have learned all by ourselves to whistle or sing but most of us don't teach ourselves to play an instrument.


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## bharbeke

I have never been able to whistle on command. There will be certain times when an exhale produces the sound of a whistle, but I cannot replicate that. I haven't put any serious effort into trying to learn whistling since I was young, and I much prefer the sounds of singing and humming.


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## KenOC

Strange Magic said:


> ... There is also cupping the hands to form an ocarina-like resonance chamber, then blowing between your bent thumbs to produce a variable whistle by manipulating chamber size and shape. Am only occasionally successful at that.


My dad taught me to do that. He did a lot of climbing in the mountains and said he and his friends used that kind of whistling to signal each other, since the sound carries a long way. You can also flap the outside hand open and closed to make a warbling sound... 

Just tried it and I can still do it -- but barely and badly.


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## Woodduck

Larkenfield said:


> Wow. I never thought of that, but I just tried it and it's true: you can hear a note in your head and the lips will purse to produce that tone in a whistle. Delightful... There _is_ a God.


I know there is. I was out walking the other day and a powerful whistle came down from the clouds. I recognized the tune as "The Music of the Night" from the greatest opera ever written in the universal language of music. Now I know where Andrew Lloyd Webber learned THE TRUTH about music (unless it was from Puccini).


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## Guest

Strange Magic said:


> An odd topic, to be sure. And maybe it belongs under Vocal Music. But it is interesting that, as one whistles a tune, one's mouth, lips, tongue, cheeks "instinctively" form just the correct architecture instantly to produce the desired note. No thought required, no experimentation; think of the next note and it's produced effortlessly.......


Ha! My question would be can one whistle through *unpursed* lips? An even more interesting _*phrnomenon*_!


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## Guest

Woodduck said:


> Pitch-finding in whistling seems even more amazing than it is in singing. We might at least try to explain the latter by reference to our constant vocalization from the moment we come into the world. Learning to speak involves learning to produce variations in pitch. But when and how do we learn to whistle? Do we practice finding pitches at first? I don't remember ever doing so, *but I know I began whistling, and whistling in tune, rather early in life*, and was quite a virtuoso at it in my high school and college years. Unfortunately there was no whistling major at my institution of higher learning.
> 
> Our brains and bodies seem wired together for the production of pitched sounds in more ways than we imagine.


Same for me! When I did my instrument exams there was always an aural test part (identifying intervals, rhythms, etc.) that involved "singing back" a short melody. The examiners always said we could either sing or whistle, and I always found it easier to whistle the tune. Strange, that.


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## Guest

KenOC said:


> My dad taught me to do that. *He did a lot of climbing in the mountains and said he and his friends used that kind of whistling to signal each other*, since the sound carries a long way. You can also flap the outside hand open and closed to make a warbling sound...
> 
> Just tried it and I can still do it -- but barely and badly.


No class, you Americans! Ha! *Yodelling* is what you should do in the mountains!
Do excuse me while I return to my schnapps and deal cruelly with my goat...


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## Guest

I've just noticed that in my avatar I am indeed whistling through *unpursed* lips.


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## Woodduck

TalkingHead said:


> I've just noticed that in my avatar I am indeed whistling through *unpursed* lips.


Are you a marmot, perhaps? Or a hyrax?


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## Guest

Woodduck said:


> Are you a marmot, perhaps? Or a hyrax?


Are you calling me a sort of rat? I am deeply offended.


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## Woodduck

TalkingHead said:


> Are you calling me a sort of rat? I am deeply offended.


Marmots and hyraxes are not rats (not that rats are bad; some of my best friends...). They are superb whistlers, and they do it without lips pursed. Actually, without lips.


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## Room2201974

I think whistling and singing have a connection. Everybody who I've met who can whistle on pitch can also sing on pitch.


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## millionrainbows

If you put vibrato on your whistling, you realize that it's the tongue that is doing it. That's where pitch is connected, not the lips, so it has to do with speech.
I remember when the guy who whistled the "Andy Griffith" theme, Earle Hagen, came to our elementary school in 1960 or so, and he was amazing. He was legally blind, and could whistle in harmony.

Another famous whistler was Toots Thielmans, jazz guitarist and jazz harmonica player. After a whistling solo, one jazz musician said "Man, you whistle better than you play!"


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## millionrainbows

Here's a "bonus" clip of Toots playing harmonica.


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> If you put vibrato on your whistling, you realize that it's the tongue that is doing it. That's where pitch is connected, not the lips, so it has to do with speech. [...]


Well, _utterance_ I would say, rather than speech, but yes, I see what you're driving at.
Interesting personal "factoid", if I may: I'm able to whistle whilst inhaling, so I can whistle quite long phrases.
OK nurse, I'll get back in the bed now ...


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## Strange Magic

TalkingHead said:


> Ha! My question would be can one whistle through *unpursed* lips? An even more interesting _*phrnomenon*_!


Actually one can. I can, anyway. The tongue is brought up to almost touch the front of the palate and air is forced through the narrow gap thus produced. The position of the lips has then little effect upon the whistle produced; even a broad smile works just fine. The phenomenon of "instinctive" note sounding remains.


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## Guest

Strange Magic said:


> Actually one can. I can, anyway. The tongue is brought up to almost touch the front of the palate and air is forced through the narrow gap thus produced. The position of the lips has then little effect upon the whistle produced; even a broad smile works just fine. The phenomenon of "instinctive" note sounding remains.


Point taken, StrangeMagic! I see now the pertinence of your forum name!


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## Strange Magic

TalkingHead said:


> Point taken, StrangeMagic! I see now the pertinence of your forum name!


Let me return the compliment by stating unequivocally that your avatar has always been one of my very favorites on TC!


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## millionrainbows

Strange Magic said:


> Actually one can. I can, anyway. The tongue is brought up to almost touch the front of the palate and air is forced through the narrow gap thus produced. The position of the lips has then little effect upon the whistle produced; even a broad smile works just fine. The phenomenon of "instinctive" note sounding remains.


Yes, I know what you mean; I can whistle like that, too. In this case, the tongue is doing double-duty, as the sounding-chamber and the pitch control. I can do that real loud whistle, too. I learned it in elementary, I practiced it when we went outside. It's come in handy when hailing cars that are driving off.


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## Guest

millionrainbows said:


> Yes, I know what you mean; I can whistle like that, too. In this case, the tongue is doing double-duty, as the sounding-chamber and the pitch control. I can do that real loud whistle, too. I learned it in elementary, I practiced it when we went outside. *It's come in handy when hailing cars that are driving off.*


Even though I can whistle whilst inhaling, I must admit that I have never whistled for a taxi, I find it just too "New York", if I may put it that way. If my foppish hand gestures don't suffice it means the cab driver has no class.


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## millionrainbows

TalkingHead said:


> Even though I can whistle whilst inhaling, I must admit that I have never whistled for a taxi, I find it just too "New York", if I may put it that way. If my foppish hand gestures don't suffice it means the cab driver has no class.


I'm from West Texas, so I used this technique if I left my cowboy hat in a girl's car who was driving off.


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## Woodduck

TalkingHead said:


> Well, _utterance_ I would say, rather than speech, but yes, I see what you're driving at.
> Interesting personal "factoid", if I may: I'm able to whistle whilst inhaling, so I can whistle quite long phrases.
> OK nurse, I'll get back in the bed now ...


I too can whistle while inhaling. Theoretically I could get through the entire Brandenburg Concerto #2 without a pause. Unfortunately my effective range has diminished with age and lack of practice - the high notes are now breathy and weak - and so the clarino trumpet part will keep the work off of future concert programs.


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