# Are there any Ragtime Pianists out there? Question on technique



## HansMaestroMusic

I've recently picked up a book of piano rags and it includes a couple of technique exercises at the front of the book. My question to any versed ragtime pianists is: how long did it take you to perfect your rag technique, and what processes did you go through to teach yourself how to riff with the left hand while focusing on the musicality of the right?

It's always been one of my favorite styles and I'd love to hear from anyone that's played it before!

Thanks! :tiphat:


----------



## hreichgott

HansMaestroMusic said:


> how long did it take you to perfect your rag technique


I have yet to perfect my technique at anything.
I was playing rags by about 3 years into classical piano lessons, which included constant listening to music in all styles that I was learning, so I picked up the ragtime style by ear the same way I picked up the style of Mozart. Rags became part of my job when I started accompanying dance classes. So maybe 3 years (of piano lessons, not just rags) to play them competently, and add on another 9 years (of piano) before I started playing them professionally.



> what processes did you go through to teach yourself how to riff with the left hand while focusing on the musicality of the right?


Playing Mozart, actually.

I think the most helpful tip for playing rags is to keep everything as steady as possible. The syncopations stand out best against a very steady tempo. 
Nothing has to be overly graceful or precious, but if you can give the phrases some intelligent shape it really helps keep the sound fresh, especially if you have passages with melody in octaves. Mozart experience is totally helpful here, although you don't need the Mozartean elegance for ragtime.
And just because rags can be played as if they were impressively speedy toccatas... doesn't mean they should be played that way. As a composer indicated in all capital letters at the top of one score I have: "RAGTIME SHOULD NEVER BE PLAYED FAST."


----------



## Taggart

In some ways, it's a bit like playing quarter note triplets against quarter notes. As hreichgott says, keep it steady. Separate hand practice to get the left hand absolutely steady and the right hand flowing and then combine them. Always remember that it's dance music so try to get the beat coming out clearly for the dancers to follow.


----------



## Downbeat

Listen to old rag artists (You Tube should have plenty)...get into the feel of the music. I play the blues (guitar...by ear), and find that once I'm into the flavour of the music, the notes fall into place much more easily. I play a rag by Blind Boy Fuller (Untrue Blues)...I agree it's a lot more complicated than the blues, but I surprised myself by allowing myself to fall into the spirit of the thing!


----------



## HansMaestroMusic

Thank you guys for the input!

And in regards to rags never being played fast, I'm not so sure Mr. Disney dude got the memo! Hahahaha!
In all seriousness, though, it's an amazing style to play and I'll keep at it!


----------



## HansMaestroMusic

Thank you guys for the input!

And in regards to rags never being played fast, I'm not so sure Mr. Disney dude got the memo! Hahahaha!
In all seriousness, though, it's an amazing style to play and I'll keep at it!


----------



## hreichgott

Hahahaha! I guess that's what it takes to entertain a Disneyland audience... Try this instead (played by the composer)




And... have fun!


----------



## HansMaestroMusic

hreichgott said:


> Hahahaha! I guess that's what it takes to entertain a Disneyland audience... Try this instead (played by the composer)
> 
> And... have fun!


The book I mentioned in the initial post is a book full of Joplin Rags, of course. Now it makes me wonder what HE would think of a performance such as the Disney one. It is entertaining for a theme park, but there is a fine line there when talking musicality and entertainment. Are they mutually exclusive? Interesting!


----------



## hreichgott

Well! Now we're on to a good topic.

I think the musicality/entertainment thing depends 100% on the audience. Some audiences are most entertained by excellent and musical performances of music that has some substance to it. Those sorts of ticket buyers will look at a concert that includes movie or videogame scores, say to themselves "Ugh" and buy a ticket instead for the all-Beethoven evening (or maybe the new music festival!) Other audiences think classical music is boring unless you do silly things like play it on instruments made of tin cans or play it as fast as humanly possible. You have to do different things to entertain different audiences. I know which audiences I like to play for the most.


----------



## HansMaestroMusic

Ahh, so indeed! Although I can also agree that there are variable audiences. Those that love the all Beethoven Concert, but hope that if the same ensemble played music from video games, the arrangement of such a score would make it an equally impressive performance. But it's rare to find that mix, I guess. You will most likely get one or the other, which is why I am one of the people you mentioned, thinking to myself "ugh" at times, yet loving certain styles for the variable audience it can create. For one, Ragtime initially drew my attention from performances such as the fast disney one, but retained my interest in the writing. The simplicity of how a rag is heard compared to the difficulty of how it's actually played (slow or fast) gets me giddy. 

So which of the two audiences would you prefer to play to? Or would it depend on your mood? What about a Hybrid audience? One that understands the difficulty in executing musicality beyond that of the normal standard in order to make "fun" or "funny" look easy? Maybe now we can define the former as an audience seeking amusement, and the hybrid as an audience seeking entertainment!

Maybe they aren't mutual exclusive then, if such an audience exists. I tried looking up some examples on youtube of a comedy orchestra I once saw, where the "jokes" were entirely based on one's knowledge of classical music and classical composers styles. Or simply, Victor Borge, coming to mind.


----------



## Taggart

hreichgott said:


> Well! Now we're on to a good topic.
> 
> I think the musicality/entertainment thing depends 100% on the audience. Some audiences are most entertained by excellent and musical performances of music that has some substance to it. Those sorts of ticket buyers will look at a concert that includes movie or videogame scores, say to themselves "Ugh" and buy a ticket instead for the all-Beethoven evening (or maybe the new music festival!) Other audiences think classical music is boring unless you do silly things like play it on instruments made of tin cans or play it as fast as humanly possible. You have to do different things to entertain different audiences. I know which audiences I like to play for the most.


While I agree in general, you can have a mixture. I think this is a bit de trop









The typical Mozart in wigs approach. But if you take the same musician, Crispian Steele Perkins and put him with a HIP Baroque group, he can do the standard repertoire and still have time to explain how a Baroque trumpet works and have fun:









A Baroque trumpet is a (folded) piece of tube, so he took a hosepipe, a proper Baroque mouthpiece and played - Handels' Water Music. Entertainment and education!


----------



## hreichgott

That's true. There is more of a range than I gave credit for in my previous post. The audiences who like to hear music with substance, for the sake of hearing music with substance, are certainly my favorites. I also really love playing in church, because for one thing there are a lot of music lovers in the congregation, and also the audience of a worship service is not the congregation. Hard to argue with that audience.

But I do like musical humor too. (Actually, humor is one big reason why I love Haydn.) I enjoy people like Victor Borge -- Igudesman & Joo are a more current group and they're very very funny. I'm sure there are people who got into listening to classical music because of performances like that. Still, as an audience member myself, I'd rather go to a concert of an hour of Haydn, or a Mozart opera, and laugh at the jokes WHILE enjoying the excellent music. I get twitchy after more than 15 minutes or so of standup comedy even if they do use musical instruments.


----------

