# Flutes in unison?



## mandiil

What do you guys think about orchestrating 2 flutes playing unison? 
In some books about orchestrating (Samuel Adler for example) they advice you to avoid it since it's hard to get them in pitch with each other. I kind of agree with that, I think sometimes it sounds like a military brass band. 
But on the other hand you see classical composers, like Tchaikovsky, that often let the flutes dub each other.


----------



## OboeKnight

It honestly can't be any worse than oboes in unison, which happens often enough. I don't think there is a problem with it, provided the musicians playing are capable. I've been to plenty of professional concerts with even as many as four flutes playing in unison and it sounded beautiful. With the right amount of vibrato and a good ear, there shouldn't be any problem.


----------



## Fagotterdammerung

It's much the same as strings in unison: the unisons of two are the weakest and most likely to show up differences in intonation ( listen to Mendelssohn's _Octet_ an its numerous unisons and you'll notice the two instruments always sound slightly separate, and somewhat less smooth and more rustic than either a full section or solo instrument would be ). Four flutes in unison sound smoother than two flutes, for example. However, this slightly less even tone might be just what you want.

That being said:

- If the texture is really thick, with lots of other instruments, it's unlikely to be that noticeable.

- If the melodic line is slow, it's easier for the intonation to match.

- Other instruments will alter the timbre, but will also create a smoother sound e.g. two flutes, two clarinets; two flutes and a bassoon; two flutes and cello/bass harmonics ( only viable for long held notes, admittedly ).

- It's easier in the more comfortable range than in the extreme ranges where intonation becomes trickier i.e. generally above high a''' or b-flat''' for more most flutists.


----------



## PetrB

mandiil said:


> What do you guys think about orchestrating 2 flutes playing unison?
> In some books about orchestrating (Samuel Adler for example) they advice you to avoid it since it's hard to get them in pitch with each other. I kind of agree with that, I think sometimes it sounds like a military brass band.
> But on the other hand you see classical composers, like Tchaikovsky, that often let the flutes dub each other.


Look at scores where the doubling is something you consider effective, take note of _what range those passages are in, and the surrounding orchestral texture -- i.e. are they part of a larger mass of sound or left a bit exposed to sound out -- the latter would have you looking carefully at the disposition of the rest of the orchestra to 'clear the way' so that more prominent passage can better be heard,_ and proceed accordingly.

Stravinsky's _Le baiser de la fée_ uses three flutes. Look at its final segment to see what is done with them there, again noting how the rest of the orchestra is treated to make those flutes so effective.


----------



## david johnson

I've heard too many flutes play well in tune together to think it's much of a problem.


----------



## dgee

As a section, if you can't play unisons in tune you're unlikely to able to play separate parts in tune. If you're arranging, just do what you like and focus on not making unreasonable registration or technical demands on the players


----------



## dwindladwayne

I agree with dgee, afterall until nobody plays you arrangement you can do whatever you do (keeping in mind of the natural limits of each instrument). It depends from who is gonna play it, how much time these guys will have to study it and how much time they will study it properly. Once I listened to one hundred flutes playing together something divided in 4 parts (if I'm not wrong) so they were 25 on each part playing unisons: if this has been done and the audience clapped for them , then you can surely do it.


----------



## Rik1

Flutes in unison appears consistently in most Classical orchestral repertoire. Honestly, it's very very common. As such, a flute play who can't play in unison with another flute on all notes is not going to get very far in an orchestra. So I'd disagree that it should be avoided. However, I'd think about why you'd want to do it first. In older orchestral music, it was done mainly to get a louder thicker flute tone especially when doubling with violins. The silver flutes used today are already pretty loud and can cut through the violin sound so it may not be necessary. Also, if it is a solo line, if 2 players are both playing it, it will generally sound less soloistic because the players have to co-ordinate the notes together and therefore less individual.

I've played some Mahler with 4 piccolos in unison! Eek! But it all depends what you are after.


----------



## Rik1

dgee said:


> As a section, if you can't play unisons in tune you're unlikely to able to play separate parts in tune. If you're arranging, just do what you like and focus on not making unreasonable registration or technical demands on the players


Absolutely spot on.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

I suggest doubling a single line when the orchestra is at a tutti. It helps with projection. If it is smaller situation, they can go into octaves if you still want to avoid harmony. Yes, Tchaikovsky uses it this way. I've played a lot of 2nd flute Tchaik in my life :lol: and yes, being in tune is important for those moments. But that's what the craft is all about, and it gets easier. In fact, I sometimes prefer to be 2nd flute to a less experienced principal than be principal with an inexperience 2nd flute accompanying me.


----------



## Rik1

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I suggest doubling a single line when the orchestra is at a tutti. It helps with projection. If it is smaller situation, they can go into octaves if you still want to avoid harmony. Yes, Tchaikovsky uses it this way. I've played a lot of 2nd flute Tchaik in my life :lol: and yes, being in tune is important for those moments. But that's what the craft is all about, and it gets easier. In fact, I sometimes prefer to be 2nd flute to a less experienced principal than be principal with an inexperience 2nd flute accompanying me.


Yes, I have a similar experience. Playing second is a particular skill in itself. And yes, playing in octaves is really, really common. I'd had forgotten that.


----------

