# I Need Traditional Wagner Ring Cycle



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

There seems to be so many wonderfully weird stagings of Wagner's Ring Cycle out there. What is the best _traditional_ one?

:tiphat:


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

MET-Levine (Otto Schenk, Günther Schneider-Siemssen) is the obvious choice in this niche.

The production's pretty arrow-straight, except for the bizarre-*** arachnid (that looks like it wandered in from another production) in lieu of the Dragon in _Siegfried_.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> MET-Levine (Otto Schenk, Günther Schneider-Siemssen) is the obvious choice in this niche.
> 
> The production's pretty arrow-straight, except for the bizarre-*** arachnid (that looks like it wandered in from another production) in lieu of the Dragon in _Siegfried_.


I agree nowadays most Met productions are traditional, and the Ring is an example. Even the new production from two years ago is much conservative compare to all those "no-sense" modern design. The Levine-Schenk DVD mentioned above certainly fits the bill.

Hack! Even Boulez-Chéreau Bayreuth Centennial Ring is more traditional than most of the junks today, and I love that version more and more.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I second the Boulez-Chereau. Although its considered seminal Regietheatre it's surprisingly traditional and much better than the dusty Met production.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

Couchie said:


> I second the Boulez-Chereau. Although its considered seminal Regietheatre it's surprisingly traditional and much better than the dusty Met production.


And Gwyneth Jones is lovely, and such a moving Brünnhilde!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

powerbooks said:


> And Gwyneth Jones is lovely, and such a moving Brünnhilde!


and she is not Hildegard Behrens. A definite advantage.


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## McCall3 (Nov 18, 2020)

Hello, I’m reviving this very old thread because I have a question and wasn’t sure how else to ask. I’m very new to opera, having just started listening recently. I started with Mozart (Marriage of Figaro, Don Giovanni, The Magic Flute and Cosi fan Tutte) and I immediately loved all of them. I’ve listened to them each several times and watched them all (just online) several times as well. I’m only interested in relatively traditional stagings, and had no problem finding videos online that I enjoyed.

Just now I wanted to look into watching some Wagner operas (Das Rheingold or Tristan and Isolde), either online or DVD/Blu Ray. It seems like there are lots of great versions to listen to, but when I looked for relatively traditional productions to watch, almost all I could find are modernized stagings that in my (admittedly unknowledgeable) opinion look awful. I found one version (the Met, Robert Lepage) that looks… ok I guess, and one by Opera North that has minimal staging that is at least non-offensive, but that’s about it. 

Honestly, I’m very surprised, I expected to find a number of beautiful traditional stagings to choose from. Why was I able to find reasonably traditional stagings of Mozart operas so easily, and hardly at all for Wagner? Are traditional stagings rare in general, or is this issue specific to Wagner for some reason? Are there any traditional stagings of his operas I could watch online, or buy as DVD/Blu Ray?

Thanks.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It is a big shame they didn't film the Seattle Ring. It was the 'green Ring" and was so beautiful and had wonderful singers. Here you can see the great dragon. I liked it better with Jane Eaglen, but this Brunhilde looked great on video.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

The Bayreuth first Wagner productions that were filmed in the 70s and 80s offer many more traditional stagings. That serves you well with a Holländer, Tannhäuser, Parsifal and Ring that are fairly traditional-looking and faithful to the score. Then I would go for the Abbado Lohengrin in Vienna, the Barenboim Tristan with JP Ponelle, and either the Jurowski or Levine Meistersinger.

Saving the Dam scene with the Rhinemaidens, I don't really get why you don't consider the Chéreau Ring as one of the most traditional stagings we can enjoy on tape.

Here is an example of a really faithful Tristan production in Japan


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

You should probably go for the 1990 MET performance conducted by James Levine, which is traditional in the best sense. It's not perfect but it has a great a cast that was possible at the time. It used to be on thé DGG label.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sawallisch 1989 is traditional, though the staging is not the greatest. It is not available on DVD but I had found all of it on You Tube a few years ago and watched it. No subtitles though. Here is Rheingold. The other operas would be two You Tube videos each.


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## McCall3 (Nov 18, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the recommendations, I’ll definitely check these out.


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

There's a contradiction inherent (IMHO) in a traditional performance of the Ring. The Ring is one of the most innovative and thought provoking of operas. When I watch a traditional production like the Schenk or the LePage (both at the Met), I get a teensy bit bored. Probably because I'm not emotionally or intellectually involved. I want to see how they do things like the rainbow bridge, etc., but that's about it.

I think my response depends on the emotional connections between the characters. For instance, in the LePage production, Wotan and Brunhilde can't really touch during Wotan's Farewell. Their armour gets in the way. In the Kupfer production at Bayreuth, Wotan and Brunhilde can meet in a joyous embrace. The same with the Chereau production at Bayreuth. The characters are touching each other all the time. But, in the Schenk production, it's very much stand-and-deliver, which is very traditional. 

I'm not advocating for audience-hating Regietheater productions where Wotan travels in a Tardis, Valkyries ride on mechanical ostriches, and Siegfried is a Wall Street financier. Please! But when a production treats The Ring as more than a fairy tale, it ups the emotional ante. 

If you're new to the Ring, a traditional production probably gives you easier access to Wagner's masterpiece. The Chereau production is probably a good bet though: it was controversial when first staged, but is now much loved.


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## 1846 (Sep 1, 2021)

Well, if you consider some of the stage effects Wagner calls for in his stage directions for the Ring, it's pretty daunting to expect a realistic staging; it always becomes necessary to have something representational. And, for example, the Chereau Ring and the Met Ring from the 90s, the realistic productions fall flat just when they should be the most exciting. For example, the ending of Gotterdammerung, in which Walhalla collapses in flames, then the Rhine river floods washing it all away as the Rhine Maidens retrieve the ring from the drowning Hagen. Can't be done, so you're stuck with something representational. The Met does have some lovely traditional stagings of other operas by Wagner which are available on DVD - Meistersinger, Tannhauser, the old Parsifal. The current Met Tristan, which can only be seen on the Met's streaming service Met On Demand, is done in a realistic but updated setting. I personally like a variety of productions, both traditional, modern, abstract, updated, etc. I'd hate it if every production opted for the same type of style.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fredrikalansson said:


> There's a contradiction inherent (IMHO) in a traditional performance of the Ring. The Ring is one of the most innovative and thought provoking of operas. When I watch a traditional production like the Schenk or the LePage (both at the Met), I get a teensy bit bored. Probably because I'm not emotionally or intellectually involved. I want to see how they do things like the rainbow bridge, etc., but that's about it.
> 
> I think my response depends on the emotional connections between the characters. For instance, in the LePage production, Wotan and Brunhilde can't really touch during Wotan's Farewell. Their armour gets in the way. In the Kupfer production at Bayreuth, Wotan and Brunhilde can meet in a joyous embrace. The same with the Chereau production at Bayreuth. The characters are touching each other all the time. But, in the Schenk production, it's very much stand-and-deliver, which is very traditional.
> 
> ...


I know what you're saying, but to me "traditional" doesn't have to mean boring or stand-and-deliver. Wagner himself was evidently an energetic actor who directed his singers to engage in passionate interaction like real people, only more intense, running up onto the stage to show them how it's done. Traditional productions in which people stand around looking monumental in overstuffed costumes certainly misrepresent the spirit of the composer. The key to performing Wagner is in the music, which is incredibly suggestive, even graphic at times. I think, too, that when people think "traditional" they're thinking in cliches based roughly on photos of 19th-century productions, which belong aesthetically to their time and place but needn't constrain our creative imaginations. What does a real valkyrie look like, after all, and hasn't she changed her clothes in the last 150 years? The stripped-down productions of Wieland Wagner were non-traditional for their time, but in the longer view belong to the tradition of productions essentially faithful to Wagner's vision, unlike those of today which make no secret of their desire to interpose some director's "concept" between composer and audience.


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## McCall3 (Nov 18, 2020)

Well, I read the libretto and listened to Das Rheingold, then watched the opening of several of the productions listed above to get a sense of them. I'm not knowledgable enough to really compare the musical performances from one production to another, but considering just the visuals I found that I actually preferred the Opera North production (the one with very minimal staging). I liked the way it allows me to use my imagination to fill in the blanks, and I'm planning to watch the Opera North versions of Die Walkure, Siegfried and Gotterdammerung.

As for Das Rheingold itself, I thought it was fascinating, and the music was beautiful. The prelude is absolutely otherwordly, I had heard it before in Terrence Malick's film The New World, but didn't realize what it was from. I'll definitely need to take some time to get more familiar with Das Rheingold.


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