# PC advice



## sospiro

Any knowledgeable PC experts out there?

My new netbook came with Windows 7 pre-installed & although 7 is better than Vista I still don't like it.

I want to install XP (I have a disc) & from what I've read there shouldn't be a problem except it overrides & removes existing programs, files etc which is OK.

Does anyone have personal experience of doing it? Any pitfalls I should look out for?

Thanks


----------



## mamascarlatti

Hey Annie

No experience with that but honestly Windows 7 is no trouble - nothing like Vista which completely sucked big-time. How about giving it a few days and seeing if you can live with it. I like it better than XP - eg being able to pin frequently used programmes to the task abar at the bottom, and the snipping tool.

Not sure when updating support will run out for XP but it sure will be earlier than Windows 7.


----------



## sospiro

mamascarlatti said:


> Hey Annie
> 
> No experience with that but honestly Windows 7 is no trouble - nothing like Vista which completely sucked big-time. How about giving it a few days and seeing if you can live with it. I like it better than XP - eg being able to pin frequently used programmes to the task bar at the bottom, and the snipping tool.
> 
> Not sure when updating support will run out for XP but it sure will be earlier than Windows 7.


I know I'll have to admit defeat one day & give up my beloved XP but I'm going to stick with it for now.

The pre-installed Windows 7 is the basic starter & I'd have to pay for anything more advanced.


----------



## beethovenian

There is no problem installing XP on a netbook, existing files will be gone. I hope you do have a Win 7 disc just in case.

Win 7 starter is good enough on a netbook. What are the advance features you need? Most advance features on Win 7 are probably too much for a netbook to handle. 

Like mamascarlatti said, the pinning function on the taskbar is great, it avoids all the clutter and mess on the desktop. You can practically leave your desktop empty and enjoy that nice wallpaper.

If you change your mind, i am willing to help with any problems or queries you have with Win 7.


----------



## TxllxT

I would advise not to do it. Many drivers of new notebooks and especially the videocard need Windows 7. XP just will not have the necessary support. It will make your screen go black and what you want to do then?


----------



## Andy Loochazee

TxllxT said:


> I would advise not to do it. Many drivers of new notebooks and especially the videocard need Windows 7. XP just will not have the necessary support. It will make your screen go black and what you want to do then?


I would agree. There are risks involved in doing things like what you propose, unless you are resourceful in dealing with unexpected problems.

Changing the operating system is a big job and it could "hang" at any time if the computer can't find the right drivers. You might be lucky and find it all goes well, but I wouldn't take that risk if you are complete novice at doing things like this.

My suggestion would be to take it to a computer repair shop and ask them to do it. For an expert it should be a simple job. Either that, or exchange the netbook if you can for a small screen laptop (eg an HP 11.6" screen) machine with Win 7 Home Basic, 3 GB of Ram, and a 1.6 ghz dual processor CPU. I'm pretty sure you find Win 7 Home Basic a better operating system than XP.


----------



## sospiro

Thanks for all the advice.



mamascarlatti said:


> ... being able to pin frequently used programmes to the task bar at the bottom, and the snipping tool.


Can't do that



beethovenian said:


> There is no problem installing XP on a netbook, existing files will be gone. *I hope you do have a Win 7 disc* just in case.


No I haven't



beethovenian said:


> You can practically leave your desktop empty and enjoy that nice wallpaper.


This is the only wallpaper I'm _allowed_ with the 7 starter












beethovenian said:


> If you change your mind, i am willing to help with any problems or queries you have with Win 7.


Thank you



TxllxT said:


> I would advise not to do it. Many drivers of new notebooks and especially the videocard need Windows 7. XP just will not have the necessary support.


Sound advice



TxllxT said:


> It will make your screen go black and what you want to do then?


Cry



Andy Loochazee said:


> My suggestion would be to take it to a computer repair shop and ask them to do it. For an expert it should be a simple job.


I know a man who can



Andy Loochazee said:


> Either that, or exchange the netbook if you can for a small screen laptop (eg an HP 11.6" screen) machine with Win 7 Home Basic, 3 GB of Ram, and a 1.6 ghz dual processor CPU. I'm pretty sure you find Win 7 Home Basic a better operating system than XP.


Actually it's not a netbook it's an HP Mini 110

Anyhoo thanks again guys. I'll think about it. I've installed Office 2003 OK so at least I can now edit photos which I couldn't do before. Even the HP photo editor which it came with, wouldn't let me crop. The crop button was greyed out.


----------



## Ukko

I read somewhere a statement from Microsoft that they would support XP SP3 until 2014.

I've been running Win 7 home premium for several months now, and like it marginally better than XP (which is installed in my 
'downstairs' computer). Win 7 is much better than Vista as a replacement for XP, the relearning being much easier. Note that most XP programs will run in a window on Win 7.


----------



## TxllxT

http://www.getpaint.net/

Paint NET is a free photo editing program, easy and quite good. Better than Microsoft stuff.


----------



## haydnfan

You can make Windows 7 have the look and fell of 2k/xp, that is significantly easier than installing xp and finding and installing the proper drivers. If you don't like the ui improvements, I would suggest giving it a week.


----------



## Almaviva

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the obvious fix if she wants to do it (which I think is unwise, but anyway, she insists in doing it): formatting the hard drive and installing Windows XP from scratch. It's a new netbook so she can't have accumulated all sorts of personalized features and files, so, a clean start would be best.


----------



## sospiro

Almaviva said:


> I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the obvious fix if she wants to do it (which I think is unwise, but anyway, she insists in doing it): formatting the hard drive and installing Windows XP from scratch. It's a new netbook so she can't have accumulated all sorts of personalized features and files, so, a clean start would be best.


It's virtually empty but if I do decide to ditch 7 & install XP, I think I'll take it to a professional.


----------



## TxllxT

Almaviva said:


> I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the obvious fix if she wants to do it (which I think is unwise, but anyway, she insists in doing it): formatting the hard drive and installing Windows XP from scratch. It's a new netbook so she can't have accumulated all sorts of personalized features and files, so, a clean start would be best.


The development of new drivers goes so fast, that you're bound to get in trouble. Also XP is not safe. That's no problem as long as you keep your notebook empty. But drivers & a new Windows, that's the reason why they force their customers to move along with them. XP can not handle big storage like a 2Tb harddisk. It does not recognise such new things.


----------



## LordBlackudder

i would advise against it because windows 7 is better than xp.


----------



## Almaviva

TxllxT said:


> The development of new drivers goes so fast, that you're bound to get in trouble. Also XP is not safe. That's no problem as long as you keep your notebook empty. But drivers & a new Windows, that's the reason why they force their customers to move along with them. XP can not handle big storage like a 2Tb harddisk. It does not recognise such new things.


 I know, that's why I said it's unwise. But if she insists in doing it, formatting and a clean installation of the operating system is the safest way to go to avoid conflicts.


----------



## Kopachris

Or maybe you'd like to try something different?


----------



## Guest

I am running Vista home premium and the only problem I get is the odd program freeze and is easily corrected by using the Task Master apart from that its fine.


----------



## Couchie

XP is now over 10 years old. Use Windows 7, you can set it up to appear and function very much like XP anyways.


----------



## mamascarlatti

Andante said:


> I am running Vista home premium and the only problem I get is the odd program freeze and is easily corrected by using the Task Master apart from that its fine.


Goodness lucky you. Vista nearly did my head in.


----------



## sospiro

Couchie said:


> XP is now over 10 years old.


I know but it's interesting that when my bank (Santander) recently replaced the PCs in my local branch they still had XP. And also at my work, approximately 2000 staff, in a rolling programme of updating everyone's PC all the new PCs have XP.



Couchie said:


> Use Windows 7, you can set it up to appear and function very much like XP anyways.


I'd like that - I hate the appearance of 7!


----------



## Guest

mamascarlatti said:


> Goodness lucky you. Vista nearly did my head in.


Please what were the problems, I have heard so many stories, my music friend also has Vista and it is ok


----------



## mamascarlatti

Andante said:


> Please what were the problems, I have heard so many stories, my music friend also has Vista and it is ok


Well I've kind of blanked it out after two blissful Vista-free years, but mainly lots of freezes and incredible slowness, even after I put a whole pile of extra RAM in. I remember the joy and relief when I moved to Windows 7 and everything seemed so straightforward and fast


----------



## Guest

I have 4G RAM and dual core and of course all the latest updates, it seems to work for me. 

Did you do your own install on an existing PC or was it a new PC with Vista installed?


----------



## mamascarlatti

Andante said:


> I have 4G RAM and dual core and of course all the latest updates, it seems to work for me.
> 
> Did you do your own install on an existing PC or was it a new PC with Vista installed?


Already installed.


----------



## Guest

I must be lucky


----------



## bassClef

I'm an IT professional and I still prefer XP.


----------



## Chris

bassClef said:


> I'm an IT professional and I still prefer XP.


As a retired professional, I agree. A major gripe I have against Windows 7 is that there is no way of writing a fully featured DVD player that will work on it. Microsoft wrote a DLL (program) called MSWEBDVD that you could bring into a Visual Basic program and set up your own DVD player. It worked for versions of Windows up to and including XP, but despite their near infinite resources Microsoft has refused to update it for Vista or Windows 7. To add insult to injury, MSWEBDVD still appears in the list of DLLs in the latest version of Visual Studio (the software you write your programs on); it just doesn't work.


----------



## complainer

I'm still using XP.


----------



## Kopachris

Chris said:


> As a retired professional, I agree. A major gripe I have against Windows 7 is that there is no way of writing a fully featured DVD player that will work on it. Microsoft wrote a DLL (program) called MSWEBDVD that you could bring into a Visual Basic program and set up your own DVD player. It worked for versions of Windows up to and including XP, but despite their near infinite resources Microsoft has refused to update it for Vista or Windows 7. To add insult to injury, MSWEBDVD still appears in the list of DLLs in the latest version of Visual Studio (the software you write your programs on); it just doesn't work.


Oh? Why not just use VLC as a fully featured DVD player?

Personally, I use Linux, so the XP vs. Windows 7 debate is irrelevant to me.


----------



## Chris

Kopachris said:


> Oh? Why not just use VLC as a fully featured DVD player?
> 
> Personally, I use Linux, so the XP vs. Windows 7 debate is irrelevant to me.


Interesting! I had never heard of VLC. The Wikipedia entry lists about a dozen languages it can be called from. I will investigate further.


----------



## graaf

Another vote for VLC, I use it as my default player, works great.


----------



## Amfibius

Suggestion:

- Clone your existing HDD with backup software like Acronis True Image. For this you will need an external HDD. 
- Format your HDD and install Windows XP
- If it all fails, use Acronis to recreate your HDD just as it is right now.

Alternative:

- dismantle your laptop and remove the HDD
- Find an identical HDD and install it into your laptop (these are very cheap)
- Install Windows XP
- if it fails, put the original HDD back in. You now have a spare HDD which you can mount in a caddy and use as a portable external HDD.

Attempting to install Win XP on your laptop without taking out some insurance in the form of a backup is a very, very bad idea. Personally I would go with option #2.


----------



## mamascarlatti

graaf said:


> Another vote for VLC, I use it as my default player, works great.


Me too. Couldn't live without it.


----------



## TxllxT

For me the real step forward was to go from a 32bits system to 64bits system: such a quiet you get from your harddisk(s)!


----------



## Guest

What is so good about VLC this is the first I have heard of it? I use Ashampoo as a burning prog for CD and DVD


----------



## haydnfan

Andante said:


> What is so good about VLC this is the first I have heard of it? I use Ashampoo as a burning prog for CD and DVD


I assume those two sentences are meant to be separate? vlc plays media files, it doesn't burn cds. The coolness of vlc is that it is a no frills player that will play just about every format out there. I don't think there is any other media player in existence that supports as many audio, video file formats.


----------



## Kopachris

haydnfan said:


> I assume those two sentences are meant to be separate? vlc plays media files, it doesn't burn cds. The coolness of vlc is that it is a no frills player that will play just about every format out there. I don't think there is any other media player in existence that supports as many audio, video file formats.


Gstreamer (which is based on the mencoder library) supports as many audio and video formats, but it's not implemented as well as VLC is.


----------



## Ralfy

Windows 7 is very stable compared to XP, and the starter version should do fine for netbooks. For media players, there are many to choose from, including VLC and Media Player Classic.


----------



## beethovenian

I like it that VLC can even attempt to play files that are deem broken.


----------



## Guest

haydnfan said:


> I assume those two sentences are meant to be separate? vlc plays media files, it doesn't burn cds. The coolness of vlc is that it is a no frills player that will play just about every format out there. I don't think there is any other media player in existence that supports as many audio, video file formats.


I see, so it does not convert files which is OK if your listening is via a PC, but if you do serious listening (a Hi Fi set up) you still need to convert in order to burn a CD, Foobar 2000 and Traders little helper are all I have ever needed.


----------



## graaf

Also, VLC has built in all that it needs, so doesn't messes up any codec you might have installed (which can be installed via some other player or in any way at all).


----------



## Kopachris

Andante said:


> I see, so it does not convert files which is OK if your listening is via a PC, but if you do serious listening (a Hi Fi set up) you still need to convert in order to burn a CD, Foobar 2000 and Traders little helper are all I have ever needed.


VLC can do conversion if you ask nicely, but you still can't burn CDs. See: http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=52483&f=14

Also, please tell me these files you're converting in order to burn a CD for a Hi Fi setup are lossless. There's no point in burning a CD from mp3, wma, or ogg files.


----------



## Delicious Manager

Andy Loochazee said:


> Changing the operating system is a big job


_Windows_ isn't an operating system - it is a PLATFORM (MS-DOS is the operating system, although Microcrap would rather you forget about that!)


----------



## Delicious Manager

Of course, you could always do the sensible thing and disregard all that Microcrap nonsense altogether and go Apple Mac!


----------



## Kopachris

Delicious Manager said:


> _Windows_ isn't an operating system - it is a PLATFORM (MS-DOS is the operating system, although Microcrap would rather you forget about that!)


This is wrong. The original Windows was an operating environment based on MS-DOS, but Windows hasn't been based on MS-DOS since ME. If you want to define the operating system by its kernel, then Windows NT is the operating system, but operating systems are generally defined by the combination of toolkit and kernel. Therefore, "Windows" is an operating system based on the Windows NT kernel, Mac OS X is an operating system based on the Darwin kernel, and GNU/Linux is an operating system based on the GNU toolkit and the Linux kernel.


----------



## Guest

kopachris said:


> also, please tell me these files you're converting in order to burn a cd for a hi fi setup are lossless. There's no point in burning a cd from mp3, wma, or ogg files.


flac.................


----------



## Delicious Manager

Kopachris said:


> This is wrong. The original Windows was an operating environment based on MS-DOS, but Windows hasn't been based on MS-DOS since ME. If you want to define the operating system by its kernel, then Windows NT is the operating system, but operating systems are generally defined by the combination of toolkit and kernel. Therefore, "Windows" is an operating system based on the Windows NT kernel, Mac OS X is an operating system based on the Darwin kernel, and GNU/Linux is an operating system based on the GNU toolkit and the Linux kernel.


MS-DOS is still there, nestling in the background.


----------



## Kopachris

Delicious Manager said:


> MS-DOS is still there, nestling in the background.


No, it's not.


----------



## Couchie

Kopachris said:


> No, it's not.


- Click Start
- Type cmd
- Hit enter

... MS-DOS rears its ugly head.


----------



## Kopachris

Couchie said:


> - Click Start
> - Type cmd
> - Hit enter
> 
> ... MS-DOS rears its ugly head.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_Prompt said:


> In reality, *cmd.exe is a Windows program that acts as a DOS-like command line interpreter.* It is generally compatible, but provides extensions which address some of the limitations of COMMAND.COM:
> 
> * SETLOCAL/ENDLOCAL commands limit the scope of changes to the environment
> * internal CALL and GOTO labels lessen the need for individual batch files to perform parts of a task.
> * filename-parsing extensions to the SET command are comparable to C shell.
> * an expression-evaluation extensions is also provided in the SET command.
> * an expansion of the FOR command to support parsing files and arbitrary sets in addition to filenames.
> * use of arrow keys to scroll through command history (provided by DOSKey in COMMAND.COM)
> * off-by-default path completion capabilities similar to bash tab completion
> * a directory stack accessible with the PUSHD and POPD commands
> * IF can perform case-insensitive comparisons and numeric equality and inequality comparisons in addition to case-sensitive string comparisons
> * the ability to escape reserved characters by using the caret character (^)
> 
> The extensions can be disabled, providing a stricter compatibility mode.


MS-DOS has not been shipped with Windows since Windows ME.


----------



## Philip

Delicious Manager said:


> MS-DOS is still there, nestling in the background.


Are you kidding me? Why the hell do I need DOSBox for then??


----------



## Couchie

Kopachris said:


> MS-DOS has not been shipped with Windows since Windows ME.


Hehe, I actually knew cmd.exe is not actually MS-DOS, but I sometimes like to be a boob.


----------



## haydnfan

I don't think that windows has been based on dos for a very long time. As Kopachris pointed out the last few gens run on NT.

DM it seems that you're thinking of Windows the same way you would X on linux, which is really not true.


----------



## Ralfy

For VLC, I've not been able to make the key bindings for using the left arrow key to jump a few frames back work. For KM Player, some MPGs and high-def WMVs won't play or won't play smoothly. The only player that I've been able to use without a lot of problems is Media Player Classic Home Cinema, which comes in 64- and 32-bit versions. I was able to install both and use the first for most videos and the second for formats like RMVB.


----------



## Guest

Have you tried "Quick media converter" ?


----------



## graaf

Ralfy said:


> For VLC, I've not been able to make the key bindings for using the left arrow key to jump a few frames back work. For KM Player, some MPGs and high-def WMVs won't play or won't play smoothly. The only player that I've been able to use without a lot of problems is Media Player Classic Home Cinema, which comes in 64- and 32-bit versions. I was able to install both and use the first for most videos and the second for formats like RMVB.


I got MPC when I installed K-Lite codec pack, but stopped updating the software at version 4.x (current is 7.x), because for some strange reason RMVB couldn't play well or at all in some of the newer versions. On my computer I have VLC, K-Lite (MPC included) and of course, WMP comes with Windows, and VLC is my default player.


----------



## Kopachris

Why are we talking about VLC? I never meant for this thread to go that way; it was just a side-comment about how Chris shouldn't need to write his own fully-featured DVD player because VLC does the job just fine.

Please continue the Windows vs. Windows debate whilst I sit back and feel all smug because I use Linux. :devil:


----------



## Guest

So no deviating onto any other computer related topic ??


----------



## Couchie

Andante said:


> So no deviating onto any other computer related topic ??


Does P=NP?


----------



## Almaviva

graaf said:


> Another vote for VLC, I use it as my default player, works great.


 Tell me more about VLC. I use Cyberlink PowerDVD 9 and I'm very dissatisfied with it. It freezes at times, the window can't be reduced in size more than to a certain degree, and it tends to produce a brief scratchy noise at times. I've sort of abandoned it and I've been just using WMP which doesn't have enough features. Is VLC a free download, or do I have to pay for it? Link?

OK, never mind, now that I see the logo, I remember it from my previous laptop and yes, it worked fine, and I've found the free download link.


----------



## haydnfan

vlc is free, check here:

http://www.videolan.org/


----------



## Almaviva

Thanks, I got it, and had the pleasure of uninstalling my Cyberlink PowerDVD.


----------



## Machiavel

If you cannot do something as simple as changing an OS in a netbook or dual booting you should DEFINETELY pay so Pros will do it for you! As for your files euh 2011 euh Back Ups anyone!! Even with a netbook without any external cd device you can clone\ back up


P. S. - My comment was not meant to be rude but just to explain it as clear as I could. No shame in being a Person totally devoided of computer skills .


----------



## sospiro

Machiavel said:


> If you cannot do something as simple as changing an OS in a netbook or dual booting you should DEFINETELY pay so Pros will do it for you! As for your files euh 2011 euh Back Ups anyone!! Even with a netbook without any external cd device you can clone\ back up
> 
> P. S. - My comment was not meant to be rude but just to explain it as clear as I could. No shame in being a Person totally devoided of computer skills .


No offence taken. I am totally 'devoided' of PC skills - that's describes me perfectly. :lol:


----------



## Guest

Couchie said:


> Does P=NP?


_How would I know I will check with Godel _


----------

