# The Four Seasons Recomposed



## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't know much about this project, since i just read about it on twitter. But it looks really interesting, and i love Max Richter's style.

Watch the clip for more information.








> Contemporary composer Max Richter re-imagines Vivaldi's timeless set of Baroque concertos, The Four Seasons, featuring Britten Sinfonia conducted by André de Ridder with violinist Daniel Hope, and also performs a special set of music from his most recent album, Infra.
> 
> Released in August 2012 as part of Deutsche Grammophon's Recomposed series - a strand of specially-commissioned albums revisiting classical works for contemporary listeners - Richter's Four Seasons preserves the elegant beauty of the originals, but subtly modifies them with unexpected cadences and delicate electronic touches.


More here: http://www.barbican.org.uk/music/event-detail.asp?ID=13711

So I'm a bit curious. Does TC accept this kind of stunt? I think it looks very interesting, and music gets remixed all the time, so why not recompose classics


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

May i quote myself
"But one of the qualities of creative genius is to realize the quality/possibilities on materials and use it the best way possible!
I don't see anything bad about borrowing ideas as long as its not 100% copied"

http://www.talkclassical.com/20795-beethoven-plagiarist-thread.html#post341213


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

"delicate electronic touches"? I'll pass.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't see why not. Collage and montage and fragmentation and reconstruction have been part of Modernism for over a century, whether we are speaking of _The Wasteland_ or Kurt Schwitters or Joseph Cornell or the Baroque opera pastiche, _The Enchanted Island_.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Its the same sort of thing as Schnittke quoting Beethoven and Bach and Haydn, or Brahms composing variations on a melody of Haydn's. Calling it "re-composed" is kinda silly, its a new piece using Vivaldi's Four Seasons as the building materials. Its the same sort of misnomer as "re-mix" XD

I don't really care for minimalism that much. I'd rather hear Vivaldi's original work than his ideas filtered through that generic, sleek, overly-clean, beating-a-horse-until-its-dead aesthetic.

Edit: The bits that they do play sound like crap. So corny. The conductor saying "this is the way I've always wanted to hear this concerto" is kinda shameful. XD


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

Sounds interesting....it might be a nice way for more people to start getting into classical music or at least to give them the incentive on checking on what this work came out from...

Edit: @ BurningDesire calling it "recomposed", even though it is annoying, is a nice trick to make more people interested instead of a title like "new-peice-name inspired by vivaldi"


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I have no problem with the idea in principle however it does have flawed premises, but perhaps the one I would like to point out is the following: validating it as an attempt to get more people into Classical music. Given the overwhelmingly and undeniablely greater popularity of 18/19th century works such as this popular classic, why try to give it features of a 20th century style that is, disregarding any comparisons of inherent worth, thoroughly niche, if you are attempting to convert people? Personally I thought it... well let's just say I prefer the original.

But doing things like this I think is an interesting idea, and will perhaps be exploited more effectively in the future.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh man, is there any worse phrase to hear with regard to a work of art than '...bringing it into the 21st century'?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vivaldi's 4 Seasons are already perfect. Don't mess with them. Especially with minimalism.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

jani said:


> May i quote myself
> "But one of the qualities of creative genius is to realize the quality/possibilities on materials and use it the best way possible!
> I don't see anything bad about borrowing ideas as long as its not 100% copied"


Yes. And taking this for granted I really think that is healthy to 'recompose' because is a needed feature to breed new things and bring them into existence. To keep alive the old great masters and new manners of experiencing music.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

I like it, but, I really don't like the term "recomposed". I think it's misleading. This is a remix to me.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I prefer things like Corigliano's Fantasia on an Ostinato (based on the famous ostinato from Beethoven's 7th).


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

StevenOBrien said:


> I like it, but, I really don't like the term "recomposed". I think it's misleading. This is a remix to me.


Its not a remix o3o a remix is when you edit the levels of the various frequency ranges in a recording. It is a new composition using The Four Seasons as its musical materials.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Vivaldi's 4 Seasons are already perfect. Don't mess with them. Especially with minimalism.


It could be done well, and it isn't (or shouldn't be) about trying to improve Vivaldi's expression, its this composer's expression. I just think this attempt is dreadfully lame XD Its like turning Vivaldi into music for car commercials.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

How about an atonal version of the 4 Seasons. Using the rhythms but done atonally.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Its like turning Vivaldi into music for car commercials.

Or Japanese anime.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I like it. I like Max Richter. I like the idea. I like the term recomposed. I like what i'm hearing. I like everything.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Minimalism sucks.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Its like turning Vivaldi into music for car commercials.
> 
> Or Japanese anime.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> How about an atonal version of the 4 Seasons. Using the rhythms but done atonally.


I know this guy who hasn't composed much, and doesn't like atonality, but made a very convincing "wrong note" version of the first section of Fur Elise. It can be done, and well.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

They could do a whole series of great baroque classics in this vein that would sound great in shopping centers or if you wanted to put on something for dinner to set an atmosphere or meditate or workout to. From the sample, it sounds slightly new agey and I think such a thing actually might achieve his aims of popularizing. This may seem diminutive, and a lot of hardcore classical fans might turn up their noses at such a notion, and probably Richter himself would be annoyed at that kind of designation, but this is the right direction to go for popularizing purposes, I think.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Then again, The Four Seasons as they are already doing quite well for themselves with popularity and for "atmosphere."


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

Ramako said:


> validating it as an attempt to get more people into Classical music.


The fact that it is a composition of itself validates it....
The possible conversion of more people first to that particular style and then, after being more aquianted with it, to classical might be a peculiar side-effect which I hope will not reach the level Clavichorder is proposing. In my opinion that would end up as degrading of the original piece.

For me this is like an opportunity to listen to the 4 seasons in a different way as I doubt that I would take them out to listen for quite a while.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Avengeil said:


> The fact that it is a composition of itself validates it....
> The possible conversion of more people first to that particular style and then, after being more aquianted with it, to classical might be a peculiar side-effect which I hope will not reach the level Clavichorder is proposing. In my opinion that would end up as degrading of the original piece.
> 
> For me this is like an opportunity to listen to the 4 seasons in a different way as I doubt that I would take them out to listen for quite a while.


I was pointing out that it was one of the 'justifications' offered - or side effects if you will. I agree that it needs no validation.

In general, anyone who 'recomposes' this, Bach's B minor mass, Dvorak's New World, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, Beethoven's 5th or Mozart's Requiem (maybe not this one... ) is going to be in for a nasty surprise, because, oh yes, they fall into that category of 'immortal masterpieces' and chances are 999-1 or more that it's not going to be better, or even remotely comparable to the original. On top of that you have a bunch of classical music fans who will start trying to stone them. It's not about shrining things (the stoning might be) so much as these are excellent pieces composed by top-notch composers, and it would probably take a top-notch composer today to do anything comparable, and they are few and far between, naturally.

My basic point is that 18th century music is more popular than today's anyway. It's not going to make it more popular, and would only work as a sort of gimmick as Cavichorder says.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Minimalism sucks.


I dunno if I'd agree with that outright (I would agree with that applied to the majority of Glass's output though). I really like some minimalist music, and some composers who were inspired by or utilize similar things to minimalists are among my favorites (Yasunori Mitsuda, Mike Oldfield), but the overall aesthetic of minimalism isn't generally one I'd choose for myself, at least not now. Its too clean. I don't dislike repetition, but I like some grit, I like phrasing. I like tunes XD


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I have this recording. Like it very much. The booklet says that Richter discarded about three quarters of Vivaldi's original score.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> How about an atonal version of the 4 Seasons. Using the rhythms but done atonally.


How about not. Let's just reorchestrate it for the ensemble used for *Ligeti's* Chamber Concerto.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> How about not. Let's just reorchestrate it for the ensemble used for *Ligeti's* Chamber Concerto.


How about constructing an electronic version of the piece from samples of various other compositions? :3 (taking single pitches and chords and such from a variety of pieces and splicing them together into The Four Seasons)


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Here is some prewiews from "the four seasons" by max richter.


__
https://soundcloud.com/classicsandjazz%2Fsets

it's beautiful


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## graaf (Dec 12, 2009)

I like the idea. I love both transcriptions of and jazz variations on famous pieces, so I might easily like this too. The only thing I dislike is when someone "completes" someone's unfinished symphony. This guy isn't completing anything, he is making his own thing, based on, or inspired by, a piece by great composer. I don't see how that could threaten anything, but I do see how it can be a great piece of music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't see any difference between this and Stokowski's Bach transcriptions. It's fine with me. I'd welcome some alternatives to unrelenting adherence to HIP. I'm not sure I'd like this particular reimagining though. They should call them transcriptions instead of recompositions. It would probably e better received.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

Ravndal said:


> Here is some prewiews from "the four seasons" by max richter.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


oh wow, this is so great! I'm so excited to hear the full version


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> I don't see any difference between this and Stokowski's Bach transcriptions. It's fine with me. I'd welcome some alternatives to unrelenting adherence to HIP. I'm not sure I'd like this particular reimagining though. They should call them transcriptions instead of recompositions. It would probably e better received.


No they shouldn't, because these aren't transcriptions. The difference between these and Stokowski's transcriptions of Bach is that those transcriptions of Bach _are_ transcriptions.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

I'd generally agree with people who say that reimagining is OK, but the intention to popularize is a little dodgy. Not only is it unlikely to work for anyone but a famous film composer, and not only does Vivaldi not need any help, but it's actually a little insulting to listeners. It says, "today's listeners are insular and will not listen to anything without a bit of electronic flourish. But if I can just give them the kind of candy they like, maybe they'll go looking for the vintage stuff." Admittedly, there are some listeners who are that insular, but we shouldn't be playing to that, we should be encouraging open minded exploration through the classics.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> No they shouldn't, because these aren't transcriptions. The difference between these and Stokowski's transcriptions of Bach is that those transcriptions of Bach _are_ transcriptions.


Oh, I see. The difference between this and transcriptions is that transcriptions are transcriptions!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

bigshot said:


> Oh, I see. The difference between this and transcriptions is that transcriptions are transcriptions!


Now you're getting it. You _do_ know what a transcription _is_, _riiiiiiiight_?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I have most of Max Richter's catalogue. I enjoy his music and will be interested in hearing this, as I also love Vivaldi.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Now you're getting it. You _do_ know what a transcription _is_, _riiiiiiiight_?


Of course! A transcription is a transcription, riiiiiiight?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

bigshot said:


> Of course! A transcription is a transcription, riiiiiiight?


Older people always win these exchanges


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Yes it is! Now bear with me, I know this may be confusing, but something that is not anything like a transcription, such as this piece, would not be a transcription.


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

Call me narrow-minded but I don't like old classical music being mutilated by today's minimalist techniques. I have nothing against that piece, except that is considered a "reconstruction". I don't like the word.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Now bare with me


Getting nakie is so much more fun than tricky definitions anyhow.

I quite liked some of the earlier releases in the ReComposed series, ones by Jimi Tenor and Matthias Arfmann. This one sounds pretty lame though, kind of smoothed off edges but with added melodrama. There seemed a much greater willingness to experiment in the earlier albums, to mess around with the music rather than just polishing it to make it shiney 2012 vintage Vivaldi. They did pick some obvious pieces to remix such as like swan lake, but also used Boulez and Sviridov and sounded like they used them more creatively.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

quack said:


> Getting nakie is so much more fun than tricky definitions anyhow.
> 
> I quite liked some of the earlier releases in the ReComposed series, ones by Jimi Tenor and Matthias Arfmann. This one sounds pretty lame though, kind of smoothed off edges but with added melodrama. There seemed a much greater willingness to experiment in the earlier albums, to mess around with the music rather than just polishing it to make it shiney 2012 vintage Vivaldi. They did pick some obvious pieces to remix such as like swan lake, but also used Boulez and Sviridov and sounded like they used them more creatively.


Heh, the definitions aren't tricky. If something is a transcription, its obvious.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Renaissance said:


> Call me narrow-minded but I don't like old classical music being mutilated by today's minimalist techniques. I have nothing against that piece, except that is considered a "reconstruction". I don't like the word.


Yeah minimalist thinking they can fix classics to be even better. So annoying. They should call it the 'The Four Seasons Tampered WIth'.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I don't hear minimalism. Max Richter is an ambient / neoclassical / contemporary composer, who could be considered a post-minimalist because of his influences.

For all the lazy people who didn't even look for it:

Recomposed By Max Richter: Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - Spring 1-3





This is a classic transported forward in time, recomposed into contemporary language. Note how you don't receive a giant ball of cheese in the face (Spring I. Allegro). Great sensibility by Max Richter.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Failed. Sorry not a fan of what Richter did to Vivaldi. Though I think it is mission impossible anywas for anyone trying to not tamper with Vivaldi's Four Seasons and actually make it better.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Neo, did Max say he was attempting to make it "better"? I didn't see the interview or read much on it, but I kind of doubt that was the point. A reimagining doesn't mean one thinks it will be necessarily better, just that it is different and judged on separate merit.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

Philip said:


> Recomposed By Max Richter: Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - Spring 1-3


I thought it had the potential to be interesting until the introduction of the big, sentimental, quasi-film chords at 0:53. From then, I just yearned for the scraps of the original to take their course intended by Vivaldi.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hah. I've been seeing this thread title for awhile now, but only just now did I manage to read it as "The Four Seasons Recompromised". Must be some sort of geezer-leak.

The 19th and early 20th Centuries did compromise the music considerably though, so I suppose this could be a 're'. Prejudice just tends to leak, don't it?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> Neo, did Max say he was attempting to make it "better"? I didn't see the interview or read much on it, but I kind of doubt that was the point. A reimagining doesn't mean one thinks it will be necessarily better, just that it is different and judged on separate merit.


Taking about 25% of Vivaldi's Four Seasons and playing it over and over made me not want to listen to the Four Seasons anymore. Minimalism or Post-Minimalism just makes it sound like it's on repeat and is an instant turnoff for me. I appreciate the most when it explores new ideas and doesn't get stuck on variations of 1 idea. That's why this was a bad idea.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

^

the same reason makes me want to listen to it.

that's why it was a good idea.


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## Andreas (Apr 27, 2012)

I guess Mr. Richter was well aware that he would provoke the wrath of the purists and the self-appointed arbiters of what's right and what's wrong. I also guess that he doesn't care one bit about it. Perhaps, if the has a superhuman streak in him, he even feels sad for them.


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## Mephistopheles (Sep 3, 2012)

Andreas said:


> I guess Mr. Richter was well aware that he would provoke the wrath of the purists and the self-appointed arbiters of what's right and what's wrong. I also guess that he doesn't care one bit about it. Perhaps, if the has a superhuman streak in him, he even feels sad for them.


I think it would be a little convenient for Mr. Richter to think that every detractor is a petty purist. Disliking his piece is not a sufficient criterion to be labelled a moron.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Actually getting to listen to more than was in that little video promo, I don't totally hate it. I still think the first movement of Spring has some dreadfully corny elements, but other parts I think are actually pretty clever and effective music. I might buy this recording :3


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