# Favorite Singer who Never became a Star!



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

For me it's Teresa Zylis-Gara! Most famously found singing the Otello Duet with Corelli on the Bing Gala Album. Since she wasn't a big star there aren't a lot of recordings but she sang at the Met a lot in the 70's. I heard her Countess, Marschallin, Elsa, Tatiana, Donna Elvira and was in love with her full, round lyric soprano and sensitive singing. Elvira was her signature role but her Desdemona in a new Met production with McCracken won great acclaim. Hope you all like her!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

There are many, but first on my list would be Igor Gorin:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> For me it's Teresa Zylis-Gara! Most famously found singing the Otello Duet with Corelli on the Bing Gala Album. Since she wasn't a big star there aren't a lot of recordings but she sang at the Met a lot in the 70's. I heard her Countess, Marschallin, Elsa, Tatiana, Donna Elvira and was in love with her full, round lyric soprano and sensitive singing. Elvira was her signature role but her Desdemona in a new Met production with McCracken won great acclaim. Hope you all like her!


For some reason I was thinking of her last week (did you mention her?). She was a semi-star at the Met who could be relied upon for fine work and whose singing I enjoyed in many a Saturday broadcast.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I suppose it depends on what you mean by a star. Valerie Masterson was certainly a star here in the UK and in France, where, like Mary Garden and Maggie Teyte before her, they loved her in French opera. Her American career was relatively sliight. She sang Violetta, Cleopatra and Angelica in Handel's *Orlando* in San Francisco.






She was a very beautiful woman and fine actress and could easily have had a career in film.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

ScottK said:


> For me it's Teresa Zylis-Gara! Most famously found singing the Otello Duet with Corelli on the Bing Gala Album. Since she wasn't a big star there aren't a lot of recordings but she sang at the Met a lot in the 70's. I heard her Countess, Marschallin, Elsa, Tatiana, Donna Elvira and was in love with her full, round lyric soprano and sensitive singing. Elvira was her signature role but her Desdemona in a new Met production with McCracken won great acclaim. Hope you all like her!


I have a live _Guglielmo Tell_ with Taddei, Zylis-Gara, and Bonisolli and rocked that night. I couldn't love this opera from studio recordings at first but this exciting live performance changed my mind.

Back to "Favorite Singer who Never became a Star!", I nominate Mary Curtis Verna (1921 - 2009). She might be the most well-rounded but overlooked _Aida_. Basically, a luscious voice like Tebaldi but without difficult high notes. She also made a few recordings for Cetra worth checking out.











​


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I suppose it depends on what you mean by a star.


It's a good point - there are dozens of singers who were major stars in the former Soviet Union but remain virtually unknown on the other side of the Iron Curtain.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

1. Mario Lanza (for obvious reasons)
2. David Poleri a terrific spinto tenor whose life was taken too soon in a plane crash. What a loss.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> 1. Mario Lanza (for obvious reasons)


Surely Mario Lanza was a star, known to millions who never visited an opera house. Probably even better known than Pavarotti. He may not have reached his true potential as an opera singer, but he was undeniably a star.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Battistini's protege Celestino Sarobe





There are a few other singers like the tenor Galliano Masini 





or the soprano Pia Tassinari 





Now, these two were better known, superb and much-appreciated in Italy. However, they are not remembered today like a Gigli or a Tebaldi. Likewise, their records do not have the same currency or are reissued like some of their contemporaries who are preserved in Met broadcasts.

In the case of Sarobe, we have no complete opera recordings - the financial crash of 1929 hit when he was in his late 30s, so there was little chance of such recordings from his peak years - and Masini and Tassinari's careers were cut in two by WW2. In any case, they were retiring by the time that modern hi-fi or stereo kicked in.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Lisa Daltirus was our Aida and Tosca and was beautiful and a wonderful singer. It is so hard to cast these big parts that I often wondered why she wasn't a big star at the Met. Same story for Mary Elizabeth Williams, she was great in Nabucco and coming up is our Isolde:


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

wkasimer said:


> There are many, but first on my list would be Igor Gorin:


This guy is butter! Can't tell just how large it is but if he could sing Verdi, how much would we love to have him right now?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> For some reason I was thinking of her last week (did you mention her?). She was a semi-star at the Met who could be relied upon for fine work and whose singing I enjoyed in many a Saturday broadcast.


She's on my favorite soprano list but I think thats all. Semi-star is a good way of describing her. I don't know what she was like but I've wondered if the next level of stardom wasn't important to her. I didn't care for her as much in standard italian fare.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Surely Mario Lanza was a star, known to millions who never visited an opera house. Probably even better known than Pavarotti. He may not have reached his true potential as an opera singer, but he was undeniably a star.


Perhaps I misundersttod the intent of the OP's question. I was not aware that movies were included in "favorite singers who didn't make it." (I guess in that case I would have to say Ethel Waters who never starred in enough films and was a super singer).
Mario Lanza was a "Movie Star" but not an "Opera Star" (oh how I wish he had made it in the opera world!) 
He did sing opera arias in movies and on discs and he even starred in 2 operas in his youth but I don't really think that constitutes becoming a star in major opera venues.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I suppose it depends on what you mean by a star. Valerie Masterson was certainly a star here in the UK and in France, where, like Mary Garden and Maggie Teyte before her, they loved her in French opera. Her American career was relatively sliight. She sang Violetta, Cleopatra and Angelica in Handel's *Orlando* in San Francisco.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would have thought that with the love of Bel Canto a singer like that would have had a bigger American career. She makes the Handel coloratura fun!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

wkasimer said:


> It's a good point - there are dozens of singers who were major stars in the former Soviet Union but remain virtually unknown on the other side of the Iron Curtain.


I guess it's anyone who comes close to filling the bill for you! Except, Nina, Mario Lanza!!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

OffPitchNeb said:


> I have a live _Guglielmo Tell_ with Taddei, Zylis-Gara, and Bonisolli and rocked that night. I couldn't love this opera from studio recordings at first but this exciting live performance changed my mind.
> 
> Back to "Favorite Singer who Never became a Star!", I nominate Mary Curtis Verna (1921 - 2009). She might be the most well-rounded but overlooked _Aida_. Basically, a luscious voice like Tebaldi but without difficult high notes. She also made a few recordings for Cetra worth checking out.
> 
> ...


I got the Corelli Cetra Aida and as much as I got it for Franco I fell in love with Curtis-Verna. Haven't heard it in forever. She's terrific!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

nina foresti said:


> 1. Mario Lanza (for obvious reasons)
> 2. David Poleri a terrific spinto tenor whose life was taken too soon in a plane crash. What a loss.


Nina seriously????......Mario Lanza?????.......not a star?????....if he's not a star what is he?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Perhaps I misundersttod the intent of the OP's question. I was not aware that movies were included in "favorite singers who didn't make it." (I guess in that case I would have to say Ethel Waters who never starred in enough films and was a super singer).
> Mario Lanza was a "Movie Star" but not an "Opera Star" (oh how I wish he had made it in the opera world!)
> He did sing opera arias in movies and on discs and he even starred in 2 operas in his youth but I don't really think that constitutes becoming a star in major opera venues.


True, though he probably made a lot more money making movies.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> I would have thought that with the love of Bel Canto a singer like that would have had a bigger American career. She makes the Handel coloratura fun!


Valerie Masterson sang in San Francisco several times, including Violetta in *La Traviata*, Cleopatra in *Giulio Cesare* (in English), and the Queen of Cathay in *Orlando*. She was not well at her debut, but scored a complete triumph as Cleopatra.

I traveled to Chicago for her Antonia in *Les Contes d'Hoffmann*, to New York for her Nina in *Chérubin* and to Bilbao for her Juliette in *Romeo et Juliette*. She sang several French roles in France, but none that I witnessed. A friend has taped most of her performances worldwide, but cannot be convinced to release them out of loyalty to Valerie (we met her here, Chicago, New York and Bilbao for all of Valerie's performances - she lives in Paris and is often in contact with Valerie).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Valerie Masterson sang in San Francisco several times, including Violetta in *La Traviata* Cleopatra in *Giulio Cesare* (in English), and the Queen of Cathay in *Orlando*. She was not well at her debut, but scored a complete triumph as Cleopatra.
> 
> I traveled to Chicago for her Antonia in *Les Contes d'Hoffmann*, to New York for her Nina in *Chérubin* and to Bilbao for her Juliette in *Romeo et Juliette*. She sang several French roles in France, but none that I witnessed. A friend has taped most of her performances worldwide, but cannot be convinced to release them out of loyalty to Valerie (we met her here, Chicago, New York and Bilbao for all of Valerie's performances - she lives in Paris and is often in contact with Valerie).


I thought she had maybe appeared in the US a bit more than just at San Francisco, but I couldn't find any reference on the net.

She had quite a long career, having started as principal soprano with the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, who perfomed exclusively Gilbert & Sullivan. I doubt anyone has ever sounded so ravishing in _The Sun whose rays_ from *The Mikado*.






Her repertoire was quite extensive. She sang quite a bit of Handel, as well as Marguerite in *Faust*, Juliette, Mireille, Louise, Manon, Micaëla, Sophie in *Der Rosenkavalier*, Gilda, Violetta, Matilde in Rossini's *Elisabetta, Regina d'Inghilterra* (In Aix with Caballé as Elisabetta) and towards the end of her career the Marschallin and the Governess in Britten's *The Turn of the Screw*.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

ScottK said:


> Nina seriously????......Mario Lanza?????.......not a star?????....if he's not a star what is he?


Oh honey! He was a star allright -- the biggest!! Just sadly never a major Met, La Scala, etc. Opera Star. Our loss.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I thought she had maybe appeared in the US a bit more than just at San Francisco, but I couldn't find any reference on the net.
> 
> She had quite a long career, having started as principal soprano with the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, who perfomed exclusively Gilbert & Sullivan. I doubt anyone has ever sounded so ravishing in _The Sun whose rays_ from *The Mikado*.
> 
> ...


There's also a Glyndebourne Constanze in *Die Entführung aus dem Serail* which I watched on video ages ago - she spoke about Mackerras giving her some extra notes to bridge the wide leaps in _Marten aller Arten _. Don't remember if she used them. Also she was preparing Leila in *Les pêcheurs de perles* but I don't remember if she ever sang it; she was also studying *Lucia di Lammermoor* at some point and it may have been beyond her.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> There's also a Glyndebourne Constanze in *Die Entführung aus dem Serail* which I watched on video ages ago - she spoke about Mackerras giving her some extra notes to bridge the wide leaps in _Marten aller Arten _. Don't remember if she used them. Also she was preparing Leila in *Les pêcheurs de perles* but I don't remember if she ever sang it; she was also studying *Lucia di Lammermoor* at some point and it may have been beyond her.


I'd forgotten about the Glyndebourne *Entführung*. I think she did sing Leïla, but not Lucia.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I thought she had maybe appeared in the US a bit more than just at San Francisco, but I couldn't find any reference on the net.
> 
> She had quite a long career, having started as principal soprano with the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, who perfomed exclusively Gilbert & Sullivan. I doubt anyone has ever sounded so ravishing in _The Sun whose rays_ from *The Mikado*.
> 
> ...


Gossip-wise, she only got an OBE presumably because she declined to sing at Prince Charles's wedding, opting instead to caravan to France with her children and husband. Kiri Te Kanawa sang instead and she got a Damehood!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Perhaps I misundersttod the intent of the OP's question. I was not aware that movies were included in "favorite singers who didn't make it." (I guess in that case I would have to say Ethel Waters who never starred in enough films and was a super singer).
> Mario Lanza was a "Movie Star" but not an "Opera Star" (oh how I wish he had made it in the opera world!)
> He did sing opera arias in movies and on discs and he even starred in 2 operas in his youth but I don't really think that constitutes becoming a star in major opera venues.


What a talent!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I thought she had maybe appeared in the US a bit more than just at San Francisco, but I couldn't find any reference on the net.
> 
> She had quite a long career, having started as principal soprano with the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, who perfomed exclusively Gilbert & Sullivan. I doubt anyone has ever sounded so ravishing in _The Sun whose rays_ from *The Mikado*.
> 
> ...


And this shows you not to pigeon hole singers. I never would have known from the Handel that she could make sounds like this!! It's funny, this sounds like the period of time that Yvonne Minton, Benjamin Luxon, Alberto Renedios and John Shirley-Quirk were coming to the Met. I take it from the places you mentioned that she just didn't come to the Met at all?

Was she a big Covent Garden singer?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Battistini's protege Celestino Sarobe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got a kick out of the fact that Tassinari is singing from L"Amico Fritz because the only time I've heard her was the Cherry Duet with with Tagliavini giving a Schipa-esque  performance. Is this her specialty opera? Her voice is as lovely as Masini's is robust. Sarobe is something different. The voice sounds great but I don't remember anyone cutting off those phrases the way he does. It's kind of like a method-actor approach to Verdi! I'm thrilled to hear him, brand new!!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> And this shows you not to pigeon hole singers. I never would have known from the Handel that she could make sounds like this!! It's funny, this sounds like the period of time that Yvonne Minton, Benjamin Luxon, Alberto Renedios and John Shirley-Quirk were coming to the Met. I take it from the places you mentioned that she just didn't come to the Met at all?
> 
> Was she a big Covent Garden singer?


She mostly sang with the English National Opera, but she did sing at Covent Garden too. In the 1970s it was Marzelline and one of the Rhinemaidens, but later she returned to sing the title role in *Semele*, Madame Lidoine in *The Carmelites*, Marguerite in *Faust*, Micaëla and The Anne Who Steals in the Royal Opera's premiere of Salinen's *The King Goes Forth To France*.

Covent Garden could be incredibly sniffy about homegrown talent nd even Dame Janet Baker only appeared there occasionally. Most of her operatic performances were for Scottish Opera or the English National Opera. At Covent Garden her roles were Didon (deputising for an ailing Josephine Veasey), Hermia in Britten's *A Midsummer Night's Dream*, Vitellia, Cressida (in a reworking of *Troilus and Cressida* Walton specially did for her), Idamante and Alceste.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I got a kick out of the fact that Tassinari is singing from L"Amico Fritz because the only time I've heard her was the Cherry Duet with Schipa. Is this her specialty opera? Her voice is as lovely as Masini's is robust. Sarobe is something different. The voice sounds great but I don't remember anyone cutting off those phrases the way he does. It's kind of like a method-actor approach to Verdi! I'm thrilled to hear him, brand new!!


I hate to correct you again, but I think you'll find she recorded the Cherry Duet with Ferrucio Tagliavini. Schipa recorded it with Mafalda Favero. As far as I'm aware, there is no performance with Tassinari and Schipa.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I hate to correct you again, but I think you'll find she recorded the Cherry Duet with Ferrucio Tagliavini. Schipa recorded it with Mafalda Favero. As far as I'm aware, there is no performance with Tassinari and Schipa.


Okay Tsaraslondon JUST GO AWAY!!!!!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I hate to correct you again, but I think you'll find she recorded the Cherry Duet with Ferrucio Tagliavini. Schipa recorded it with Mafalda Favero. As far as I'm aware, there is no performance with Tassinari and Schipa.


By the time I'm done correcting all of my mistakes I'm going to have to stop and actually do the job I get paid for!!!

This time I didn't trust you...okay I actually did I was just in too much of a huff not to go upstairs and pull out the bloody Schipa album just to see what I knew was true the second you said it. Thank you Tsaraslondon   I am,AS ALWAYS, in your debt! :tiphat:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> And this shows you not to pigeon hole singers. I never would have known from the Handel that she could make sounds like this!! It's funny, this sounds like the period of time that Yvonne Minton, Benjamin Luxon, Alberto Renedios and John Shirley-Quirk were coming to the Met. I take it from the places you mentioned that she just didn't come to the Met at all?
> 
> Was she a big Covent Garden singer?


She was a big English National Opera (ENO) singer and she sang at the Metropolitan Opera with the ENO on tour as Gilda in *Rigoletto* and at Carnegie Hall in concert as Nina in Massenet's *Chérubin*, or the further adventures of Mozart's Cherubino.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ScottK said:


> because the only time I've heard her was the Cherry Duet with with Tagliavini giving a Schipa-esque performance. Is this her specialty opera?


what I meant to say !!!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I hate to correct you again, but I think you'll find she recorded the Cherry Duet with Ferrucio Tagliavini. Schipa recorded it with Mafalda Favero. As far as I'm aware, there is no performance with Tassinari and Schipa.


The fellow to the left will tell you that the Schipa-Favero is the best. BUt what does he know?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> The fellow to the left will tell you that the Schipa-Favero is the best. BUt what does he know?


I'll take this moment to say that I've always thought that is the most leading man photo I've ever seen of Schipa.

I've never heard you wax about him alot but I assumed it was because he hadn't come up. Is he way at the top for you?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> I'll take this moment to say that I've always thought that is the most leading man photo I've ever seen of Schipa.
> 
> I've never heard you wax about him alot but I assumed it was because he hadn't come up. Is he way at the top for you?


That photo reminds me of the young Raymond Burr, another of my favorite performers.

Schipa is one of my three top tenors, with Caruso and Bjorling. I think of him as the poet of tenors, for both his sensitive style and his exquisite formation of words, which is one aspect of that sensitivity. Whenever anyone opines that diction is of minor importance in singing, I direct them to Schipa.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Perhaps not quite the same but we might note that Natalie Wood was not considered good enough to sing in the first film of West Side Story and her voice was dubbed by Marni Nixon. However later Natalie did sing using her own voice in the film gypsy and was very creditable. Nixon herself is now recognized as the singing voice of leading actresses on the soundtracks of several musicals, including Deborah Kerr in The King and I, Natalie Wood in West Side Story, and Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady, although her roles were concealed from audiences when the films were released. Nixon's first actual onscreen appearance was as Sister Sophia in the 1965 film The Sound of Music.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

marlow said:


> Perhaps not quite the same but we might note that Natalie Wood was not considered good enough to sing in the first film of West Side Story and her voice was dubbed by Marni Nixon. However later Natalie did sing using her own voice in the film gypsy and was very creditable. Nixon herself is now recognized as the singing voice of leading actresses on the soundtracks of several musicals, including Deborah Kerr in The King and I, Natalie Wood in West Side Story, and Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady, although her roles were concealed from audiences when the films were released. Nixon's first actual onscreen appearance was as Sister Sophia in the 1965 film The Sound of Music.


Marni Nixon also dubbed Peggy Wood as Mother Superior in _Climb Every Mountain_


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Marni Nixon also dubbed Peggy Wood as Mother Superior in _Climb Every Mountain_


Because of her uncredited dubbing work in these films, Time magazine called her "The Ghostess with the Mostest".[


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Marni Nixon passed away several years ago.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> That photo reminds me of the young Raymond Burr, another of my favorite performers.
> 
> Schipa is one of my three top tenors, with Caruso and Bjorling. I think of him as the poet of tenors, for both his sensitive style and his exquisite formation of words, which is one aspect of that sensitivity. Whenever anyone opines that diction is of minor importance in singing, I direct them to Schipa.


I've always loved Schipa but not listened to him enough. The St. Sulpice from Manon and the Werther aria are in my head in his voice. I'll pull him out and listen some more, with an ear to that diction! Fortunately, thanks to Tsaraslondon, I know where the album is !


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> Marni Nixon also dubbed Peggy Wood as Mother Superior in _Climb Every Mountain_


I never knew that. Did they use both voices? I read that with Deborah Kerr it was either Marni, Kerr (one song I think) or both.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Although I wouldn't say "favorite" I surely think more should have been heard from baritone Pavel Lisitsian.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

nina foresti said:


> Although I wouldn't say "favorite" I surely think more should have been heard from baritone Pavel Lisitsian.


Oh, I would definitely call him a "favorite" - he's one of the singers I was thinking of when I mentioned singers who were major stars in the Soviet Union but virtually unknown outside.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I never knew that. Did they use both voices? I read that with Deborah Kerr it was either Marni, Kerr (one song I think) or both.


I think Kerr sang "Shall I tell you what I think of you?", which after all is more of an acting piece than a real song.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Andre Previn mentions that He was looking for a singer to dub into the movie ‘Paint your Wagon’ for Jean Seberg. He hadn’t found anyone suitable when he was watching an old musical on TV where the singing was dubbed in by just the right voice. It turned out to be a girl called Anita Conroy but all he had was a phone number from the studio as she had retired from singing. Previn called Western Union for the operation to send a telegram to the said Anita Conroy. To his shock and amazement the operator announced that she was the lady concerned! Her career had come to a standstill and she had taken the job as a phone operative. She was hired and made quite a bit of money out of the contract


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

marlow said:


> Andre Previn mentions that He was looking for a singer to dub into the movie 'Paint your Wagon' for Jean Seberg. He hadn't found anyone suitable when he was watching an old musical on TV where the singing was dubbed in by just the right voice. It turned out to be a girl called Anita Conroy but all he had was a phone number from the studio as she had retired from singing. Previn called Western Union for the operation to send a telegram to the said Anita Conroy. To his shock and amazement the operator announced that she was the lady concerned! Her career had come to a standstill and she had taken the job as a phone operative. She was hired and made quite a bit of money out of the contract


As far as *Paint Your Wagon* is concerned, they should've dubbed everybody. I never heard such horrible singing, especially from the men!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> As far as *Paint Your Wagon* is concerned, they should've dubbed everybody. I never heard such horrible singing, especially from the men!


Well Clint Eastwood isn't exactly Caruso! LOL


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> As far as *Paint Your Wagon* is concerned, they should've dubbed everybody. I never heard such horrible singing, especially from the men!


You don't like Harve Presnell??????


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> You don't like Harve Presnell??????


I don't recall him at all as he is overshadowed by the low rumblings of Lee Marvin and whatever it is that Clint Eastwood attempted.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> I don't recall him at all as he is overshadowed by the low rumblings of Lee Marvin and whatever it is that Clint Eastwood attempted.


Wouldn't argue for a second about those two. But youtube Call the Wind Maria and I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> Wouldn't argue for a second about those two. But youtube Call the Wind Maria and I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised!


I do know who the handsome Presnell is, I just don't recall much of the movie!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I love the actresses Madelyn Kahn's voice and she could sing beautifully in an operatic voice but it always was kind of campy sounding. I would have loved for her to have made an opera arias album



Apparently she taught herself to sing this way without training and even sang in La Boehme. She was a soprano but had a contralto like lower extension. Here is an interview with her talking about singing opera.



 I will close with her in the best moment from Young Frankenstein singing Sweet Mystery of Life which sounds like it goes up to C6.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> I do know who the handsome Presnell is, I just don't recall much of the movie!


I don't imagine the way he looks in that scene will let you down either !


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

as if I could choose just one :lol:

*soprano*
- Lina Bruna Rasa
- Mary Costa (she is well known for Sleeping Beauty, but was never well known in opera in spite of first-rate singing)
- Maria Cebotari 
- Frida Lieder

*mezzo*
- Tamara Sinyavskaya 
- Eula Beal (I think she actively avoided the spotlight after she got married)

*contralto*
- Zenaida Pally
- Marie Powers

*tenor*
- Anatoly Solovyanenko
- John Alexander 
- Galliano Masini
- Giuseppe Giacomini

*baritone*
- Mykola Kondratyuk
- Peter Glossop 
- Michael Lewis
- Nicolae Herlea

*bass*
- Boris Shtokolov


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love the actresses Madelyn Kahn's voice and she could sing beautifully in an operatic voice but it always was kind of campy sounding. I would have loved for her to have made an opera arias album


ooo! Starts off with fluty coloratura and then drops into a powerful, chesty "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DOOOO!". Was not expecting that. I like to see voices which are well developed at both ends. It provides so much more contrast and allows for more unexpected moments where they can switch things up.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> as if I could choose just one :lol:
> 
> *soprano*
> - Lina Bruna Rasa
> ...


Frida Leider has to have been a star. And I think in Italy Masini was.

Giacomini would probably be next up on my list!

My Dad always said that he thought he was going to love Alexander after the Norma recording, but he didn't end up that way.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> as if I could choose just one :lol:
> 
> *soprano*
> - Lina Bruna Rasa
> ...


I just yesterday added Lina Bruna Rasa to a contest! Also Shtokolov in at least one contest. John Alexander has one of the most beautiful tenor voices to me. Very velvety.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)




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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> as if I could choose just one :lol:
> 
> *soprano*
> - Lina Bruna Rasa
> ...


When did you change Beal into a mezzo? Didn't you always refer to her as a soprano before?:lol:
Anyways, Rasa, Cebotari and Leider are obviously stars. Rasa was considered the best Santuzza and Magdalena of her time, Cebotari the most versatile soprano, praised by Strauss, admired by Gigli etc. Leider was the leading Wagnerian of her time. They may not be so famous now, but they were the brightest stars of their time.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Where is the dividing line between a singer and a star? And does a star have to be a good singer?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Becca said:


> Where is the dividing line between a singer and a star? And does a star have to be a good singer?


It's wherever you draw the line!....all conversational rules here, not hard ones!

People who sing leading roles on major stages are all wildly successful if I think that they fulfilled my dreams. I would not argue with anyone who called them all a star, in that light.

On the other hand, tenors and sopranos here are compared to Caruso and Callas. In terms of broad success, both popular and critical, TeKanawa is clearly in the same discussion with Callas but, to me...Zylis-Gara???...not so much.

So it's whatever I make of it.

I have trouble calling James McCracken a good singer with that strange, effort-filled production and so often unattractive sound. But he sang the lead in new productions and on many major recordings. So I think, for me, a singer does not have to be good to be at least some version of a star.

But, that's me!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> Where is the dividing line between a singer and a star? And does a star have to be a good singer?


I suppose it depends on your point of view. Is a star someone like Callas or Pavarotti who were known the world over to people who had never been in an opera house? If so, then there are few stars of that magitude in opera.

If we are talking about star opera singers then I suppose you can be a star without being a good singer. I mean look at Anna Netrebko. :devil:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I suppose it depends on your point of view. Is a star someone like Callas or Pavarotti who were known the world over to people who had never been in an opera house? If so, then there are few stars of that magitude in opera.
> 
> If we are talking about star opera singers then I suppose you can be a star without being a good singer. I mean look at Anna Netrebko. :devil:


I think she is the biggest star in the opera world the last 15 years other than Jonas K. They both look great on video.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^Which is a sad commentary


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I think she is the biggest star in the opera world the last 15 years other than Jonas K. They both look great on video.


I don't think Netrebko looks "great" these days; _zaftig_, yes.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I don't think Netrebko looks "great" these days; _zaftig_, yes.


Some gents _like_ zaftig, bubula. Or so I'm told.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Becca said:


> Where is the dividing line between a singer and a star? And does a star have to be a good singer?


Of course not any more than an actor doesn't have to be a great actor to be a star. John Wayne was a great star without ever being a great actor. He had a great stage presence but he only ever played one role. Sean Connery was the same.
The great actors are the chameleons like Olivier and Guinness.
Bob Dylan was a great star but certainly not a great singer


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Some gents _like_ zaftig, bubula. Or so I'm told.


A year after we met, the stress of grad school led my wife to lose a whole bunch of weight. My sister's line was, "Scott finally finds his perfect Rubens-esque woman, and she goes out and loses 25 pounds!"


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I have had a very hard time coming up with any singers who I would describe as favourites but not stars, however the recent Peter Grimes aria contest has made me realize that Heather Harper would probably be on that list along with Elsie Morrison. Others would be Paolo Montarsolo and Derek Hammond-Stroud (!). Could I also include Hermann Prey and Norman Bailey ... both of whom are probably somewhere on the cusp of being stars.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Becca said:


> I have had a very hard time coming up with any singers who I would describe as favourites but not stars, however the recent Peter Grimes aria contest has made me realize that Heather Harper would probably be on that list along with Elsie Morrison. Others would be Paolo Montarsolo and Derek Hammond-Stroud (!). Could I also include Hermann Prey and Norman Bailey ... both of whom are probably somewhere on the cusp of being stars.


My take???......Prey does not make it, he's an international star. English singers are more likely to fit the bill - Hammond-Stroud, Bailey - but thanks to Peter Grimes popularity I tend to think of Harper as closer to being a star. Since I've never heard of Elsie Morrison I'm letting her in the club and after all of your other names, what name could possibly have been more inevitable than.....Paolo Montarsolo???!


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

There are very few singers who become stars outside the rarified world of classical music. Bryan Terfel might be one example and Kirk Te Kanawa. True, there are stars of opera but most people don’t know of them.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

marlow said:


> There are very few singers who become stars outside the rarified world of classical music. Bryan Terfel might be one example and Kirk Te Kanawa. True, there are stars of opera but most people don't know of them.


Mostly thinking of genuine stars of opera. Doesn't have to be Pavarotti!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

As have said what means with a star is not an exact definition. But to name someone just for the cause of it Gunilla af Malmborg:






One of her daughters is a famous composer and another dauhter of her is a famous actress.

She also performed in the selection for Eurovision song contest in 1966:


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

I think Saoia Hernandez is massively underrrated, and compared to the casts at the Met, I'd prefer to see her. Reminds me a bit of Tebaldi. She is easily one the best Giocondas I've heard (sadly, not live).


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

gsdkfasdf said:


> I think Saoia Hernandez is massively underrrated, and compared to the casts at the Met, I'd prefer to see her. Reminds me a bit of Tebaldi. She is easily one the best Giocondas I've heard (sadly, not live).


Very much agreed, she is a fantastic soprano considering the current state of singing.


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## gsdkfasdf (11 mo ago)

Op.123 said:


> Very much agreed, she is a fantastic soprano considering the current state of singing.


Caballe did call her the diva of the century  I think it's apt. I've liked everything she's sung so far.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

gsdkfasdf said:


> Caballe did call her the diva of the century  I think it's apt. I've liked everything she's sung so far.


BBoy put a cut of hers on one of the chest voice threads and she really sounded entitled to the phrase force of nature!


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