# Do you know any Mozart work that has ingenious thematic economy?



## Wolfgangus the Great (Jan 4, 2022)

Yeah, the title speaks for itself. A response would be very much appreciated. Thank you!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"The finale is as monothematic as anything Haydn ever wrote, with all the development deriving from the opening two phrases, and the other movements make use of a very small amount of melodic material for their development sections as well. The minuet for example, builds primarily on just two small motifs."
Btw, you might find this interesting: https://www.talkclassical.com/72516-proksch-bryan-jeffrey-cyclic.html#post2137054


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Charles Rosen mentioned that iit's difficult to figure out what the main "theme" of the first movement of the Prague Symphony really is!


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## Wolfgangus the Great (Jan 4, 2022)

hammeredklavier said:


> "The finale is as monothematic as anything Haydn ever wrote, with all the development deriving from the opening two phrases, and the other movements make use of a very small amount of melodic material for their development sections as well. The minuet for example, builds primarily on just two small motifs."
> Btw, you might find this interesting: https://www.talkclassical.com/72516-proksch-bryan-jeffrey-cyclic.html#post2137054


Thank you so much! I've read many of your posts. Very informative and interesting reads! I've learned a lot! Thank you for this example which you gave me.

Now, do you know a Symphony, Piano Sonata, and Piano Concerto which also has this kind of economic ingenuity?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Wolfgangus the Great said:


> Now, do you know a Symphony, Piano Sonata, and Piano Concerto which also has this kind of economic ingenuity?


As far as I know, the final movement of symphony in E flat, K.543 and the first movement of sonata in B flat, K.570 are monothematic.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

First movement of the "Haffner" symphony #35 is basically monothematic, although not as "involved" as the quartet movement. In concertos it seems almost a trademark of Mozart to have A LOT of different themes to mark sections, highlight the entries of the soloist etc. so anything monothematic would go a bit against his style.


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## Wolfgangus the Great (Jan 4, 2022)

Okay, thank you!


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Wolfgangus the Great said:


> Thank you so much! I've read many of your posts. Very informative and interesting reads! I've learned a lot! Thank you for this example which you gave me.
> 
> Now, do you know a Symphony, Piano Sonata, and Piano Concerto which also has this kind of economic ingenuity?


You should listen to the finale of (the Allegro molto) of Mozart's 37th Symphony. *

*  Long thought to be by Mozart but actually by M Haydn.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

In discussing the finale Allegro ma non troppo movement of the Piano Concerto No. 14 Cuthbert Girdlestone (p 187, Mozart and his Piano Concertos) writes that although this rondo can be divided into contrasting sections, the appearance on the page is very different from what falls on the ear, which is almost monothematic: "When, score in hand, one notes each return of the first subject... it is possible to pick out the four expositions of the [rondo] refrain and the three couplets... but on hearing it one's impression is that the refrain never leaves the stage".

Some other examples:

The Rondo in D Major for piano, K. 485, a piece in sonata form, despite the title, where versions of the opening theme appear throughout in a total of six different keys.

The first movement of the Symphony in A major, No. 21 K. 134

The first movement of the quartet for oboe, violin, viola and cello K. 370 is essentially monothematic.

The first movement of the B-flat trio, K. 502

The first movement of the Piano Quartet in G Minor, K. 478 is a monothematic sonata, which obsesses on a single motive that musicians humorously label "Answer the telephone!"


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## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> The first movement of the Piano Quartet in G Minor, K. 478 is a monothematic sonata, which obsesses on a single motive that musicians humorously label "Answer the telephone!"


Here too, I wonder what is really meant by "thematic economy", but Mozart's Kegelstatt Trio is, I think, Mozart's most extreme example thematic repetition. I don't remember now, but my memory is that the main theme reappears some 60 times!


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I briefly thought of the K 449 finale which is a brilliant and underrated piece (the whole concerto but especially the finale). It's a bit like a mix between variations and rondo with the couplets being variations of the refrain.


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