# Shostakovich 11th - why so much ignored?



## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

There may be many discussions on TC about this work but I have not found them. I confess to be an ardent admirer of most of Shostakovich's music and argue that the "The Year 1905" should receive far greater attention.

Yes, it was programmatic, strongly tonal and S claimed it was in the tradition of Mussorgsky. At least to my ancient ears, it is arguably one of his finest symphonic works. This doesn't belittle the genius of many of his other symphonies - for me, especially the 8th and 10th.

Is it musical snobbery that causes the 11th to be so rarely performed and relatively recorded (there are about 30 in the catalogue)? Its it because it is perceived as "film music" or too populist?

Not the least the current recordings is the Rozhdestvensky with the USSR Ministry Of Culture Symphony Orchestra - better by far than the Rostropovich

Please argue with me if you disagree


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

I personally don't find any of Shosta's last 5 symphonies to be all that memorable, except perhaps the 14th, but only then because of its unique structure. That said, I'm pretty odd in my Shosta tastes anyway. I tend to prefer his 1st, 4th, 6th, and 9th to his bigger, more popular, and serious works.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Shostakovich Sym #11 is a really fine piece, i enjoy it thoroughly...excellent dramatic structure - slow-fast-slow-fast, or quiet/contemplative-loud/violent-quiet-loud....very colorful work...it deserves more live concert time.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

I agree with ^^, it is one of only 4 of the Shostakovich symphonies which I listen to - 5, 9, 11 & 15. My favourite is a live performance with Semyon Bychkov and the Berlin Philharmonic in the Digital Concert Hall.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

#11 has always struck me as a film score looking for a good movie. I prefer quite a few others... 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 15.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

It's one of the good ones. I hadn't noticed it being ignored, though. There are many good recordings including Mravinshy (not very good sound), Kondrashin and Caetani. Also, I need to check to be sure, but I think I remember liking Jansons as well.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)




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## Bill Cooke (May 20, 2017)

The criticism that this symphony sounds like film music has never bothered me, because I happen to love good film music. As long as the symphony is, it never fails to seduce me into listening to the entire thing. The finale is electrifying. My favorite recordings are by Stokowski, Bychkov (Berlin/Philips) and Rostropovich.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If the 11th is considered flawed for one reason or another then presumably some caveats might also apply to the 12th due to their similarities? I often think of the 12th as the 11th's less boisterous cousin, but I pretty much tend to lump them together. I enjoy both works, but neither would be in my DSCH symphonic top six.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I really like the piece and recommended the Kitaenko/Gurzenich recording


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Bill Cooke said:


> The criticism that this symphony sounds like film music has never bothered me, because I happen to love good film music. As long as the symphony is, it never fails to seduce me into listening to the entire thing. The finale is electrifying. My favorite recordings are by Stokowski, Bychkov (Berlin/Philips) and Rostropovich.


It isn't a criticism I get. Yes, it is programme music. But it paints a convincing (moving) picture and doesn't need a film! Even more controversially I would say the same of Shostakovich 12.

But perhaps a more convincing criticism is that several Shostakovich symphonies seem to be ploughing the same furrow again and again. This is particularly true of 8, 11 and 12, all works I like but, given that we expect symphonies to be major statements, I would ideally want each to be more distinctive.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Interesting that only KenOc mentions the 7th in his list of favorites. I deliberately did not include the 7th in my original post because it like the 11th, has its share of detractors. Personally, I love it and have several recordings of the work. 

I also had the pleasure of hearing it live in the Sydney Concert hall. It was a memorable performance with the visiting USSR State Symphony, not the least reason being that one of the overhead lights crashed down in the middle of the performance. It said a lot for Russian discipline that the orchestra hardly missed a beat. Orr maybe they thought it was merely an planned sound effect! 

You can rubbish the 7th if you wish, but for me it stands with the 8th and 11th at the top of my personal favorites


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Becca said:


> I agree with ^^, *it is one of only 4 of the Shostakovich symphonies which I listen to - 5, 9, 11 & 15*. My favourite is a live performance with Semyon Bychkov and the Berlin Philharmonic in the Digital Concert Hall.


We have almost the same taste for Shostakovich symphonies, it seems. Just change #9 for #7 and include #14 and there you have my faves.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Anybody who is not convinced by the 7th, get Bernstein's recording with the Chicagoans. Also get a bottle of cheap vodka. Drink a third of the bottle and then listen while drinking the rest.

Bernstein's 7th is so big it needs two CDs to hold it!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Anybody who is not convinced by the 7th, get Bernstein's recording with the Chicagoans. Also get a bottle of cheap vodka. Drink a third of the bottle and then listen while drinking the rest.
> 
> Bernstein's 7th is so big it needs two CDs to hold it!


Amazing recording!! one of the best recordings of ANY symphony I've ever heard...can't imagine what the live concerts sounded like!! ☺


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

aussiebushman said:


> Interesting that only KenOc mentions the 7th in his list of favorites. I deliberately did not include the 7th in my original post because it like the 11th, has its share of detractors. Personally, I love it and have several recordings of the work.
> 
> I also had the pleasure of hearing it live in the Sydney Concert hall. It was a memorable performance with the visiting USSR State Symphony, not the least reason being that one of the overhead lights crashed down in the middle of the performance. It said a lot for Russian discipline that the orchestra hardly missed a beat. Orr maybe they thought it was merely an planned sound effect!
> 
> You can rubbish the 7th if you wish, but for me it stands with the 8th and 11th at the top of my personal favorites


I had the good fortune to play this huge work twice during my career....great fun to play...lots of good solos, one really extensive [mvt I].....this work isn't all just loud, bombastic stuff...there are some delicious chamber music passages for just a few instruments, very clear texture....try the bass clarinet over the ostinato flutes in mvt II....,of course, it's plenty loud...one of my section mates brought a sound level meter to a concert....closing pages hit 116+ db on stage, with all the xtra brass and massed percussion....mama mia!! that's industrial level!!


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

The 7th is good, yes, but the first movement’s “invasion” theme seriously lessens my overall enjoyment of the work. It is tedious and banal. This comes from the heart of a Shostakovich lover.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Littlephrase1913 said:


> The 7th is good, yes, but the first movement's "invasion" theme seriously lessens my overall enjoyment of the work. It is tedious and banal. This comes from the heart of a Shostakovich lover.


depends on how it is played....it needs to start soft, almost distant, and grow gradually, steadily, into the terrifying "Panzer full scale armored assault" music that DS intended...Bernstein/CSO make a fine case for it....I fully expect a Panzer Mk IV tank to come crashing thru my walls when i play it!!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Heck148 said:


> depends on how it is played....it needs to start soft, almost distant, and grow gradually, steadily, into the terrifying "Panzer full scale armored assault" music that DS intended...Bernstein/CSO make a fine case for it....I fully expect a Panzer Mk IV tank to come crashing thru my walls when i play it!!


I won't even go into the idea that the first movement of the 7th was written before the German invasion of the USSR. Edward Bast will dispatch his assassination squads!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> I won't even go into the idea that the first movement of the 7th was written before the German invasion of the USSR. Edward Bast will dispatch his assassination squads!


according to Volkhov [certainly a questionable source] DS meant for it to be a general "march of tyranny" not specifically restricted to the Nazi Operation Barbarossa...may or may not be genuine, of course....


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Heck148 said:


> Amazing recording!! one of the best recordings of ANY symphony I've ever heard...can't imagine what the live concerts sounded like!! ☺


With or without the sound effects of a light falling into the orchestra. a live performance of the 7th is mind-boggling especially with Russian brass. My daughter - then about 15 and a violin student - was with me at the performance I mentioned earlier. At the conclusion, she utter just one word - "WOW"


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Heck148 said:


> depends on how it is played....it needs to start soft, almost distant, and grow gradually, steadily, into the terrifying "Panzer full scale armored assault" music that DS intended...Bernstein/CSO make a fine case for it....I fully expect a Panzer Mk IV tank to come crashing thru my walls when i play it!!


The Bernstein version the with Chicago Symphony is one I have not heard - I have the 1993 Bernstein performance with the NY Philharmonic. I also have the Mravinsky recording and the one I played just last night - London Philharmonic Orchestra under Bernard Haitink that is just wonderful, with exactly the soft beginning you mention.

There is a complete list of recordings at https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/works/12601--shostakovich-symphony-no-7-in-c-major-op-60-leningrad/browse?size=10&view=large

I so much wish I had the time and money to acquire more of those listed, but that is also true of the recordings of so many other composers!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

aussiebushman said:


> The Bernstein version the with Chicago Symphony is one I have not heard - I have the 1993 Bernstein performance with the NY Philharmonic. I also have the Mravinsky recording and the one I played just last night - London Philharmonic Orchestra under Bernard Haitink that is just wonderful, with exactly the soft beginning you mention.
> 
> There is a complete list of recordings at https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/works/12601--shostakovich-symphony-no-7-in-c-major-op-60-leningrad/browse?size=10&view=large
> 
> I so much wish I had the time and money to acquire more of those listed, but that is also true of the recordings of so many other composers!


Bernstein/CSO is well worth it...nothing like it!! far better than his earlier NYPO effort...also paired with a terrific Shost Sym #1...


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

If I divided Shosty symphonies into thirds, with the first third of the 15 being in the really good category and and the final third being in the mediocre, I'd place #11 in the second third. Why? Because I find some of its melodic material not top drawer and the piece has a bit of padding.


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

Shostakovich's 11th is certainly not neglected in this house. It's one of my favourites and I'm fortunate to have multiple recordings. The recent recording by Nelsons and Boston is excellent.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

D Smith said:


> Shostakovich's 11th is certainly not neglected in this house. It's one of my favourites and I'm fortunate to have multiple recordings. * The recent recording by Nelsons and Boston is excellent.*


Correct, it pleasantly surprised me. A great recording.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

D Smith said:


> Shostakovich's 11th is certainly not neglected in this house. It's one of my favourites and I'm fortunate to have multiple recordings.


Hey! That's what I was going to write!

The 11th has long proved one of my favorite of the Shostakovich 15 … and I like them all! Mostly. My go-to disc for a long time has been the Stokowski/Houston Symphony vinyl. Which I now have on CD as well, with as well some dozen other versions of the work.









Though all of it proves effective to my tastes, it's that third movement "Eternal Memory (Adagio)" that makes the work special. I've often listened to only that one movement, and I consider it one of the great "stand alone movements" of the modern classical symphony.

I once utilized Shostakovich music in a theatre sound design for "I Never Saw Another Butterfly", a one-act drama by Celeste Raspanti based upon artwork and poetry of Jewish children who passed through the Terezin concentration camp, a stopping-off place for hundreds of thousands on their way to the gas chambers of Auschwitz. There is a lengthy scene where the imprisoned children recite stories of their various experiences, and the production design utilized actual Nazi concentration camp footage projected over the stage as the actors delivered their speeches. The "Eternal Memory" music proved highly effective for the scene. In a devastatingly emotional manner. I still cannot hear that music without the images of that play in my consciousness. But I do know there was a time when I heard the music without such imagery in mind, and I admired it then, too.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I won't even go into the idea that the first movement of the 7th was written before the German invasion of the USSR. Edward Bast will dispatch his assassination squads!


No, I'd just do what I did last time you brought it up: Line up statements by Shostakovich in historical documents attesting to when he was composing what parts. Some of them were even heard in radio broadcasts!


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I owned four sets of his symphonies and several other singles and never found any version the 11th symphony very memorable, either in thematic material, development, or emotional impact. According to Volkov the composer was thinking about the 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary when he wrote it. Maybe so but, to me, it pales in comparison to the great 1st, 5th, 8th and 10th symphonies.

I hadn't listened to the "Leningrad" is some time and heard a "new" version that struck me -- Stokowski's 1943 radio broadcast produced by Pristine Audio. The sound is magnificent, better than anything I've ever heard of that vintage. The interpretation is somewhat different than I expected from Stoki -- maybe influenced a little by Toscanini doing the first U.S. performance and perhaps copying some of his intensity.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

I can still remember its unfavourable reception when it was first recorded, with critics regarding as a propaganda piece similar to the 2nd and 3rd symphonies, and well below the standard of much hailed 10th Symphony. Its successor, commemorating the Bolshevik revolution received an even dustier welcome, with some justice perhaps. But subsequent recordings of the 11th seem to have helped to restore its reputation. For a start, it celebrated the unsuccessful 1905 Revolution - its suppression, in contrast to the Bolshevik revolution and its darker outcome - attracted a much greater sympathy, and the last movement is a tribute to its spirit and ideals. I bought the RLPO version with Vasily Petrenko, which doesn't hang about. OK not in the same category as the 5th and 10th., but not just another propagandist work written to order.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

aussiebushman said:


> Interesting that only KenOc mentions the 7th in his list of favorites. I deliberately did not include the 7th in my original post because it like the 11th, has its share of detractors. Personally, I love it and have several recordings of the work.
> 
> I also had the pleasure of hearing it live in the Sydney Concert hall. It was a memorable performance with the visiting USSR State Symphony, not the least reason being that one of the overhead lights crashed down in the middle of the performance. It said a lot for Russian discipline that the orchestra hardly missed a beat. Orr maybe they thought it was merely an planned sound effect!
> 
> You can rubbish the 7th if you wish, but for me it stands with the 8th and 11th at the top of my personal favorites


Same here! The 8th and the 11st are solid favorites of mine, along with the 4, 5 and 10.


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

I can't say I count the Eleventh amongst the best of Shosty's symphonies. At the very least, I prefer the Fourth, Fifth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, and Fifteenth to it. I agree with the poster who says it isn't especially memorable in any department, though I don't find it bad (unlike the Third). The adagio is probably the highlight. I'm most familiar with the Ashkenazy recording with the St. Pete Phil -- has TC reached a consensus on his cycle?


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