# Obscure Composers During the Mozart/Beethoven/Schubert Era



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

What are some of the obscure Composers worth checking out around 1765-1825?


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

It depends on what you define as "obscure". However, if you mean composers OTHER than Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert, I would start with Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf, Chevalier de Saint-Georges, François-Joseph Gossec, and Anton Reicha, as well as Bach's sons (CPE and JC), and Haydn's brother Michael. There are many more but these are my personal favorites.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Cipriani Potter composed in the 1810s and later. So far, I know his Symphony no. 6 composed in 1832. However, it is a Classical not a Romantic piece.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Étienne Méhul, perhaps. More famous as an opera composer but his four extant symphonies from between 1808 and 1810 are worthy of note. They are in the Austro-German mould and I wonder if they might have been the kind of works which later could have had an effect on the young Berlioz.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

The two I would add are Danzi and Reis.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Endimione, Act I: Quel ruscelleto




Der Bassgeiger zu Worgl: Ach lieder, ich bin eizig schuld




Die Wahrheit der Natur: Ich suche die Natur




Die Hochzeit auf der Alm: Wo wahre Treue die Herzen verstrickt




Andromeda e Perseo, Act II: Quel viso adorato beato


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

François Boeildieu -- Harp Concerto especially, Piano Concerto, opera

Pierre Rode -- Violin concertos, etc.


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## Machiavel (Apr 12, 2010)

George Onslow quartets and quintets...


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I just discovered Chevalier de Saint-Georges, what a revealing and others named good ones, but do try the Chevalier


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Yes, what classes as obscure? There are a number of good composers who existed from 1760 to about 1830+ including Field, Hummel, Weber, Ries, Clementi, Salieri, Adam, Strauss I, Glinka, Dussek, Cherubini, Cramer, Sor, Spohr, Kuhlau, Vorisek, Berwald, Fanny Mendelssohn, ...and plenty more.


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## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

Anton Reicha's 36 fugues were published in 1803. They are really cool: answering the subject at the tritone and other intervals, multiple subjects, 5/8 time, and some other novel fugal techniques. They also just sound really refreshing to me. For comparison, 1803 was the year that Beethoven's 16th and 17th piano sonatas were published, and the year that Beethoven started composing the Waldstein sonata.


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## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

Antonio Salieri - taking his current his current post-Amadeus reputation into account, I should add that I'm being serious. 

The contemporary music public in Mozart's time knew what they were doing when they acknowledged Salieri as a worthy peer of the boy genius. Check out Les Danaides or Les Horaces if you are not familiar with his work. Maybe they don't reach the Olympian heights of Don Giovanni or La Nozze di Figaro - but they are at least on the level of Cosi Fan Tutte and better than some of the lesser Mozart operas IMO (and I like Cosi very much).


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Some months ago, Bulldog ran a game on compositions by composers born in the final three decades of the 18th century, excluding Beethoven, Donizetti, Rossini, and Schubert. There should be lots of overlap with what you're looking for.

In total 160 works were nominated, from composers reaching from Aguado to Wölfl (link for the list).

This was the result for the top ten:

1. Berwald - Symphony no. 3 "Singulière"
2. Hummel - Piano Concerto no. 2 in A minor

3. Field - Piano Concerto no. 2 in A-flat major
3. Crusell - Clarinet Concerto no. 3, op. 11
5. Spohr - Violin Concerto no. 8 in A minor, op. 47

6. Weber - Grand Duo Concertante for Clarinet and Piano, op. 48
7. Berwald - Symphony no. 1 in G minor "Sinfonie sérieuse"
8. Weber - Konzertstück in F minor for piano and orchestra
8. Weber - Clarinet Concerto no. 1 in F minor, op. 76
10. Weber - Der Freischütz


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

That's a reasonable list. I'd add Weber's clarinet quintet and some Clementi sonata (Demidenko and Horowitz had anthology discs).
Two premature genii who died young were Juan Arriaga (3 quartets and a symphony) and Hyacinthe Jadin (piano sonatas and chamber music), a bit like a mix between Mozart and Schubert.

From the ~1770s: The Hamburg symphonies by CPE Bach, also his concerti and keyboard music. Gluck's operas, especially Iphigenie en Tauride.

Later: symphonies/concerti by Vanhal, Rosetti, Kraus, Kozeluch.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Spohr's E-flat piano/wind quintet is lightweight but wonderful.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Obscure classical-era composers?

If you prefer gazing at _real_ "stars", focus your telescope on the music of William Herschel, born November 15, 1738 in Hannover, Germany and died August 25, 1822 in Slough, England.











By the way, March 13 remains a perfect day to celebrate this composer's accomplishments!


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Dick Johnson said:


> Antonio Salieri - taking his current his current post-Amadeus reputation into account, I should add that I'm being serious. The contemporary music public in Mozart's time knew what they were doing when they acknowledged Salieri as a worthy peer of the boy genius. Check out Les Danaides or Les Horaces if you are not familiar with his work.


It's ironic the real Mozart actually described him as "very gifted".



> (580) Mozart to the Archduke Francis
> [Autograph in the Mozarteum, Salzburg]
> VIENNA, during the first half of May, 1790
> 
> ...


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Here are some good composers (together with a few selected compositions) from the period you mentioned that are overshadowed by the big names:
Clementi: piano sonatas
Hummel: piano concertos, trumpet concerto, bassoon concerto, chamber works (esp. piano trios)
M.Haydn: trumpet concerto, symphonies, requiem
Boccherini: chamber music, cello sonatas, symphonies
Cimarosa: oboe concerto, Il matrimonio segreto
Viotti: violin concertos
Devienne: flute concertos
Cherubini: requiem, Médée, string quartets
Reicha: chamber music
Crusell: clarinet concertos
Spohr: violin concertos, clarinet concertos, the last judgement, piano trios


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Duplicate................


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

There are so few recordings of his music. Here is one I'm sure you haven't heard, RogerX, Aston Magna playing sonata for violin and fortepiano #2 in A. 11:05 in video.






The violin was this composer's instrument. A violin concerto and a sinfonia concertante I have heard from him makes me hungry for more.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

*Franz Ignaz von Beecke* (28 October 1733 - 2 January 1803) was a classical music composer born in Wimpfen am Neckar, Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Ignaz_von_Beecke
Von Beecke served in the Bavarian Dragoon Regiment of Zollern from 1756, during which time he fought in the Seven Years' War. He served with distinction and was promoted to Captain. He was known at the time chiefly for his great skill in playing the harpsichord, although he composed a wide range of music as well, having studied with Christoph Willibald Gluck. He died in Wallerstein, Germany.




In 1775, von Beecke met the 19-year-old Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in Munich and the two engaged in a piano playing competition at the well-known inn Zum Schwarzen Adler. The poet and composer Christian Friedrich Daniel Schubart, who was in the audience, wrote in his Teutsche Chronik (27 April 1775) that in his opinion, von Beecke played far better than Mozart: "In Munich last winter I heard two of the greatest clavier players, Mr Mozart and Captain von Beecke. Mozart's playing had great weight, and he read at sight everything that we put before him. But no more than that; Beecke surpasses him by a long way. Winged agility, grace and melting sweetness."

Stage works

Roland (opera) - 1770?
Claudine from Villa Bella (singspiel in one act with libretto by Goethe) - 1780
The jubilee wedding (comic opera in 3 acts with libretto by Weiße) - 1782
The grape harvest (singspiel in 2 acts) - 1782
List against List (The Bell) (singspiel) - c.1785
The heart retains its rights (singspiel) - 1790
The destroyed pastoral celebration (pastoral) - 1790
Nina (singspiel) - 1790
Instrumental music

33 symphonies
1 sinfonia concertante
Several piano concertos
Piano quintet in A minor
17 string quartets
6 flute quartets
Numerous works for piano
Piano Quintet in A minor (ca. 1770) 












String Quartet in C major (ca. 1780)


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> It's ironic the real Mozart actually described him as "very gifted".


Well, Mozart _was_ buttering up the Archduke in order to get a job from him. Salieri was always in his way because he had seniority, was in the right place at the right time. Mozart did respect his music though as he did Michael Haydn's.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Open Book said:


> Mozart did respect his music though as he did Michael Haydn's.


Sure, but also I believe Mozart considered Michael more important to him personally than anyone else in his time.


hammeredklavier said:


> *symphony No.4 in B flat* (a clear model for Mozart's K.183 in elements such as sudden mood shifts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

*Józef Elsner (1769 - 1854)*

Józef Elsner was a composer, music teacher, and music theoretician. He is best-known as the principal composition teacher of Fryderyk Chopin.

A few of his works:

Symphony in C major, Op. 11 (1805)





Overture "Leszek the White" (1809)





Overture "Andromeda" (1806)





Piano Quartet in E-flat major, Op. 15 (c. 1805)





String Quartet in D minor, Op. 8 No. 3 (1796)


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

Dick Johnson said:


> Antonio Salieri - taking his current his current post-Amadeus reputation into account, I should add that I'm being serious.
> 
> The contemporary music public in Mozart's time knew what they were doing when they acknowledged Salieri as a worthy peer of the boy genius. Check out Les Danaides or Les Horaces if you are not familiar with his work. Maybe they don't reach the Olympian heights of Don Giovanni or La Nozze di Figaro - but they are at least on the level of Cosi Fan Tutte and better than some of the lesser Mozart operas IMO (and I like Cosi very much).


I agree. Les Danaïdes is quite a fine opera.


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

Two composers I have not seen mentioned here are Christoph Ernst Friedrich Weyse (1774-1842).









He wrote some really fine music.

Another is Niels Gade, though he was born in 1817, and comes toward the end of this time period.









And I should also add Dmitry Stepanovich Bortniansky (1751-1825).


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Would it be appropriate to include Bortniansky in the thread about Ukrainian composers as well?


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Wiki lists a huge opus, none of which I've heard, but I have accompanied the double viola concerto of *Paul Wranitsky* (1756-1808). That certainly deserved to be better known.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Holzbauer Quintet Nº 2




(listen for the major/minor mode shifts)


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

I'll throw in Mozart's close friend, Joseph Eybler, among the obscure composers worth checking out. He studied composition under Albrechtsberger, who declared him to be the greatest musical genius in Vienna apart from Mozart. Eybler also received praise from Haydn who was his friend and patron.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Chevalier de Saint-Georges has many delightful concertantes. 
Cherubini has some nice stuff also, the Symphony in D is very listenable.
Boccherini is a bit "Hadyn's wife" but past being slightly derivative is a beautiful composer. 
And M. Haydn has many excellent works I'm sure his brother would have been proud of...


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Juan Arriaga. Died absurdly young, but left a few works that hint at real genius in handling harmony.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

John Field





Paul Wranitzky


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