# Introspection



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Is there *any* reward system in place in existence for being a thoughtful, introspective individual? It seems to be a one-way ticket to depression. Will you have a fundamentally better life if you are less self-aware, constantly and unapologetically overestimate your competencies, and live in blissful ignorance?


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Introspection has actually led me to be more confident and sure of myself. This is what I like about working on the hotel front desk instead of reservations: on the phone (in reservations), the only thing I can do if a guest starts arguing with me is sit in silence; on the front desk, where I'm talking to the guest face-to-face, I can project that air of confidence to (hopefully) avoid confrontation or hold my ground during the confrontation. Also, because I know exactly where my limits are, I can change my limits. Can't change them if I don't know where they are to begin with. Oh, and I can use the placebo effect to my own advantage.

Hmm... that sounded more thought-provoking and less crazy in my head.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I feel similarly sometimes. Introspection is a useful tool that can cause great harm in excess, I think.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

no lsadhlsakdjlasjdakldjklasd


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Maybe?....


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

In fairness, introspection gave us Beethoven's unparalleled Late Quartets. It also gave him his miserable life. Worth it?


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

You could be introspective and be a happy individual at the same time. That's how most absent-minded scientists work.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

@ Couchie, How much of a factor do you think his deafness was in causing him to be so introspective? Is it known how he was in this regard before he was so afflicted?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Beethoven's *unparalleled Late Quartets*. Worth it?


And this is debatable as well. I haven't warmed up to them yet, I find them kind of rambling...


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

I hope that a reward for introspection is never given...lolz... it is a reward for it self, rare is it in the modern world. It is a positive and meaningful practice if you dont take it too far


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

rattzzable said:


> I hope that a reward for introspection is never given...lolz... it is a reward for it self, rare is it in the modern world. It is a positive and meaningful practice if you dont take it too far


But isn't it only a fruitful thing if you DO take it too far? (Beethoven, Newton, Emily Dickinson)


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

It's not for there introspection that they are renown but for there uniqueness. Taking it too far is not a defining characteristic on contemplating the world or yourself, you should rather consider upon using other words that describe the introspection as a process, like colorfulness, colour, style( like in music ) depth, energy and enthusiasm- Bethhoven said " I shall grab faith by the throat" (not the whole quote though) and that's pure energizing enthusiasm not introspection...


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> And this is debatable as well. I haven't warmed up to them yet, I find them kind of rambling...


well, a less debatable case is Ravel, he was extremely introspective and lonely (at the point that even his sexuality is a mystery, not that it makes any difference), but he left us tremendous masterpieces.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Couchie said:


> But isn't it only a fruitful thing if you DO take it too far? (Beethoven, Newton, Emily Dickinson)


i think this is a good point, there is a very un-clear line. the eternal and misterious relation genius-madness. (take dodecaplex for example, judging by his posts, he is obviously crazy, but also he claims he is a genius: there you have...:lol::lol


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

Couchie said:


> Is there *any* reward system in place in existence for being a thoughtful, introspective individual? It seems to be a one-way ticket to depression. Will you have a fundamentally better life if you are less self-aware, constantly and unapologetically overestimate your competencies, and live in blissful ignorance?


As someone said: "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness."

But how do you become self-unaware again? I could use some of that bliss...


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

TresPicos said:


> As someone said: "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness."
> 
> But how do you become self-unaware again? I could use some of that bliss...


"He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened." Lao Tzu


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Is there *any* reward system in place in existence for being a thoughtful, introspective individual? It seems to be a one-way ticket to depression. Will you have a fundamentally better life if you are less self-aware, constantly and unapologetically overestimate your competencies, and live in blissful ignorance?


Part of introspection is self analysis, but another part of it is _telling_ yourself stuff. Some of that 'telling' is apt to be bull-twaddle, be it laudatory _or_ derogatory. _All things considered_, introspection is a form of playing with yourself - it can be overdone.


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

This thread takes me back to a few days ago... my girlfriend wanted to visit an estate sale in our local area. We arrived at the house, which was filled with people. As we walked through the rooms of the home, all I could think about was how sad the whole situation was. People milling about scavenging through the remnants of a now deceased individual. I became more interested in examining the family photos still hanging on the walls and wondering if they would go to a surviving ancestor, or simply be thrown away and the frames sold. I was also drawn to an extensive doll collection, that was obviously amassed over a significant period of years. It now lay scattered about on several folding tables, each doll being sold for a few dollars a piece. Made me think of the pointless endeavors we occupy our time with, possibly to keep thoughts of mortality at bay. 

OK, enough of that. That's what introspection does for me, often takes me to dark places.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

When life feels like a prison, you can find freedom through introspection in several ways, either escapism type introspection, or talking yourself through the ****** situation, convincing yourself in the manageability and even enjoyability of something that previously was confining. I am still deficient in the latter form of introspection.


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

no you don't get a medal for moping around. you have to do something.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

One thing's for sure,...you know the person who has never done any the second you meet them.

_Or at least I do._


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Introspection hasn't ever brought me happiness yet (it has brought plenty of sadness, of course), though I think the pay-off is worth it for the beauty I perceive in the world that I think goes straight over many people's heads.

This also makes me extremely judgemental of others, leading to great frustration.


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

this is my favorite topic since it opened here


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

lou said:


> This thread takes me back to a few days ago... my girlfriend wanted to visit an estate sale in our local area. We arrived at the house, which was filled with people. As we walked through the rooms of the home, all I could think about was how sad the whole situation was. People milling about scavenging through the remnants of a now deceased individual. I became more interested in examining the family photos still hanging on the walls and wondering if they would go to a surviving ancestor, or simply be thrown away and the frames sold. I was also drawn to an extensive doll collection, that was obviously amassed over a significant period of years. It now lay scattered about on several folding tables, each doll being sold for a few dollars a piece. Made me think of the pointless endeavors we occupy our time with, possibly to keep thoughts of mortality at bay.
> 
> OK, enough of that. That's what introspection does for me, often takes me to dark places.


Wow this actually is tragicomic when you read it, let alone when you think about it, it bummed me out


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## Oskaar (Mar 17, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Is there *any* reward system in place in existence for being a thoughtful, introspective individual? It seems to be a one-way ticket to depression. Will you have a fundamentally better life if you are less self-aware, constantly and unapologetically overestimate your competencies, and live in blissful ignorance?


You have some great points. I struggle from depression and angsyity myself, and I think life had been easier if I just had the ability of let go of some self-studying. But I dont think it would make me a better person! Introspectivity is important, but it is very exhausting to know every details about things you are not able to do something about...


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

rattzzable said:


> Wow this actually is tragicomic when you read it, let alone when you think about it, it bummed me out


Sorry, didn't mean to bum anyone out. 

I recovered quite fast!


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

lou said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to bum anyone out.
> 
> I recovered quite fast!


N.P. i have BDP diagnosed so it's quite common to me, and i like the sensibility of the post, i'll get over it


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

I will have to ask the voices in my head.

@Couchie - Emily Dickinson's sister in describing the duties of the Family said, "Emily thinks, she is the only one in the family who does that.". I can vouch for the truth of this story. Emily is a distant cousin to my wife.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Kopachris said:


> Introspection has actually led me to be more confident and sure of myself. This is what I like about working on the hotel front desk instead of reservations: on the phone (in reservations), the only thing I can do if a guest starts arguing with me is sit in silence; on the front desk, where I'm talking to the guest face-to-face, I can project that air of confidence to (hopefully) avoid confrontation or hold my ground during the confrontation. Also, because I know exactly where my limits are, I can change my limits. Can't change them if I don't know where they are to begin with. Oh, and I can use the placebo effect to my own advantage.
> 
> Hmm... that sounded more thought-provoking and less crazy in my head.


"Stay flexible, with a loaded Glock and a baseball bat."


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

What kind of lamp shades are those? 

I'm renovating and looking for something similar.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

(never mind the introspection, I'm a 40watt bulb times three! )


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Is introspection the same as introversion. Or do they go together?

I think I'm less introspective now that in my younger years. I'm not afraid to tell people what I'm thinking, even though it might not be the standard conversation topic. Of course, there's balance involved. I just like to keep conversations real, not fake. I think most people you can connect with on a "real" level and cut the waffle or jargon, if you try. I absolutely hate fake topics like the weather, which imo is not even a real topic.

So the way I've dealt with overload of introspection or this kind of stuff is to keep things real when I talk to people. Avoid things like talking about the latest electronic gadgets for half an hour because normal people don't give a damn about that. Keep it real, get those thoughts outside of your head, everyone has real things in their life that are okay to discuss. Not the new car or cr*p like that which is just rubbish imo.

I don't know if I'm off topic, but anyway. The other things is, Polednice, I think it gets better with age, I have in a way learnt to "adapt" to people and their quirks, etc. which can at first be annoying but if you get over that, you can grow to appreciate their positives and really connect with them, as much or little as you want...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I wouldn't think the point of introspection is to make us happy. 

But also, I wonder if we don't have the cart before the horse: perhaps we introspect when we are unhappy, rather than the other way around.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Is there *any* reward system in place in existence for being a thoughtful, introspective individual? It seems to be a one-way ticket to depression. Will you have a fundamentally better life if you are less self-aware, constantly and unapologetically overestimate your competencies, and live in blissful ignorance?


Had to come back to this; set it aside while I worked out whether I know/knew any of the latter persuasion. I think that mostly they are young folks; if they started out as you describe, they usually pause after awhile, and get the gumption to ask themselves something like 'What the f*** is going on in here?' Those that don't take that break seem to be the middle aged folks with the bravado, the edginess that indicates they're covering for a sense of inadequacy (one that may not really be there, but they are afraid to look).

I guess what I'm saying is introspection can be 'too much of a good thing', but it's good to season the steak; maybe not tenderize it, but make it so it goes better with the... the... veggies dammit, I said it.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Is introspection the same as introversion. Or do they go together?


Introspection: -spect = to look, therefore Introspection = looking within
Introversion: -vert = to be oriented, therefore Introversion = to be oriented within

Generally, to be introverted means to have a tendency for introspection.


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

I think we all missed the true point of the question, i think that the point was-it is in introspection we find our musical prodigality witch is quite true, but what is the peaking point of containing energy, and combining it with the transcendental Logos of the music itself that bestows upon us the Niagara falls of individualistic divine-like inspiration and the true potential of geniusness that we all potentially have as musicians...


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

It is the (if) downfall that makes us wonder.... It seems to me either as El Condor Pasa to freedom of the musical spirit, or the Icarus of vanity, witch in the end is a fairly Big issue


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## rattzzable (Dec 7, 2011)

rattzzable said:


> It is the (if) downfall that makes us wonder.... It seems to me either as El Condor Pasa to freedom of the musical spirit, or the Icarus of vanity, witch in the end is a fairly Big issue


to a musician


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

> Is introspection the same as introversion. Or do they go together?


Kopachris,

From the Latin, Introspection = Intra + Spectare where Intra [within] + Spectare [infinitive] equates to an active process [verb] of doing more than looking [Ecce! Look! is the Latin for the visual cipher] - the Spectare here, is more of that examination process i.e. to look inside of oneself, not outside of oneself, that is, to examine oneself. That is, one's own knowledge, is examined by the mind (as the operating all seeing eye), whose knowledge gleaned by looking purely from within, is derived from whatever one can inform one's mind of, with no reference point to the external world. The latter point is crucial, for understanding why introspection, is not merely, being 'self-analytical', or 'reflective' or 'thoughtful'. One examines, from within: from within the emotional experiences; from within the thought processes, as raw data ... of one's being. Not, from the experiences of others ...

This is neither an a priori form of knowledge nor a posteriori, although pretends to be. It is knowledge derived from knowing, specifically 'thinking I know .. because-I-feel-it-is-true-for-me but again', is not evidence based. Thus, the philosophical movement, solipsism, which derives from it, warns us all of the dangers which pure introspection leads to.... a self-spiralling consumption with oneself in undulating narcissistic waves of self-adulation, instead of getting on with thinking beyond oneself, and the viewer/listener/audience.

Mostly, I think that the term 'introspection' is unhelpful: we can be 'thoughtful', and live our lives in a thoughtful way, taking reference from our own experience and thoughts (reflections), tempering this in the light of others experiences, and external validation. In early Greek philosophy, the same movement happens, and the usual problems arise: when 'truth' is discovered through introspection, one man's truth, bears no relation to another's, borne through introspection. Thus, introspection tends to fit with a kind of monadic experience, or island type mentality, which is prone to being washed away in a tsunami of reason, or the experience of others.

As for composers ... I think of thoughtful or so called 'introverted' composers, or at least so they have been named, such as Myaskovsky: the term is more of a banal categorisation, than an accurate one. Myaskovsky's string quartet oeuvre for example, has the qualities of a rich musical language, which has blossomed in unfolding layers - none of which cater for the superficial extrovert. Equally though, his music is not for the 'introspective' either: his language is far more accessible.

In contrast, introversion is a trait type characteristic - I think it was Jung who coined it, based on descriptive behavioural psychology as a foundation for making sense of later archetypes on personality. The introvert, was someone who was more likely to look inwards; that is, within books; music, and objects, whereas the extrovert, tended towards the opposite - towards the social world. Not that it was a binary code of 1 or 0, or all or nothing. Most of us, according to Jung's theory of personality, have a degree of introversion; a degree of extroversion; and a degree of being psychotic (!) and worse... a degree of being neurotic (!). Introverts are indeed more likely to 'introspect', however extroverts can do likewise, since the description of introvert vs extrovert is descriptive of one's behaviour. So you can very well be both introvert and extrovert, if that makes any sense.

As it is, introspection is great if we have moments of it; excruciating (for others) if we live every moment like this. There has to be a balance, between personal introspection, and relating with others, unless we want to be remembered as the deceased fruitloop of a composer who made rather interestingly warped music, but was so odd that he couldn't relate to others.

Enough about Glenn Gould


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## Oskaar (Mar 17, 2011)

Introspection is to infact know that you smell ill if you have not showered one day!


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

To be introspective is a gift. Those who are introspective and contemplative notice so much more about living in general.


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