# Holst.... So Confused



## Trombonaphone (Nov 23, 2010)

I am working on a score study project for a conducting class. For the project I chose 2 movements from Holst's The Planets (Mars and Venus)

I am working from the Dover Publications edition of the score.
Here is a link to a downloadable score which is the same as the one I am using

http://imslp.org/wiki/The_Planets,_Op.32_(Holst,_Gustav)

I have done most of the project already however I am stuck on one rather important thing, and that is the tonal center of the various "sections"

I decided to start with Venus and I thought I was doing fine until measure 30 (I failed early I know) in this measure the key signature changes from Eb to F# (while this does not necessarily constitute the tonality of the piece it is still important). I then noticed that the key signature in some of the parts didn't change, Only the upper wood-winds and uppers strings changed. I then noticed that very few of the key signatures actually were "correct". For example starting from the very beginning of the movement, the Horn in F are written in C while the concert pitched instruments are in Eb on top of this the English Horn is written in Bb this should be correct as it is an F instrument. And the piece just gets more screwy as it goes on.

I, as you can probably tell, am very confused. I presume that Holst doesn't use key signatures in the "traditional" was, for example in Mars everything is written in C due to the extensive use of chromaticism, but Venus has got me very lost.

Any suggestions would be very appreciated. Or if you read this and notice I am doing some transposition wrong or making some other blatant error please slap me in the back of the head and set me strait.

Thanks


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Trombonaphone said:


> I, as you can probably tell, am very confused. I presume that Holst doesn't use key signatures in the "traditional" was, for example in Mars everything is written in C due to the extensive use of chromaticism, but Venus has got me very lost.


I believe Mars is in G minor (orchestral version), even though it may have blank signature. Isn't the low pedal tone in the bass instruments that goes through almost the whole piece a G? Also, the piece ends on a G chord without a 3rd (just G and D, perfect 5th), so that's how you can tell what the original key is. Checking the last note of the piece (final chord) is probably best way to guess.


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## Trombonaphone (Nov 23, 2010)

While I have not looked at Mar very much yet as far as a tonal analysis, it does appear to be primarily in g minor (based largely on the peddle you refereed to). however in my score, as well as the score from IMSLP (which I'm starting to believe is just the same score), it ends with a C and G chord which would be kind of odd for g minor (I would like to think that Dover Publications wouldn't change an entire chord), but then again the ending to Mars is practically separate from the rest of the piece.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

I think traditionally horns, for instance, are always written without a key signature. Players used the various crooks to play the notes. I'n not aware particularly of the traditions with the other instruments, or whether Holst was that traditionally-minded a sort of a chap.

It pays to check the instrument keys; alto flute, bass oboe - there's all kinds of weird things in the Planets as I recall.

For anyone studying conducting or any practical study of orchestral music, I recommend Norman del Mar's _Anatomy of the Orchestra_.
A positive bible of information.
cheers,
G


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