# Remarkable first symphonies



## Lenny

What are the most remarkable, striking first symphonies? I'll start my favourites:

Hans Rott - Symphony in E Major (1880) 
Franz Schmidt - Symphony No.1 in E-major (1899) 
George Enescu - Symphony No.1 in E-flat major, Op.13 (1905) 
Henri Dutilleux - Symphonie n° 1 (1951)


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## chill782002

I think Bizet's first symphony ("Symphony in C") is a strong contender, particularly considering that he was 17 when he wrote it and that it was not discovered until almost 60 years after his death.


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## Animal the Drummer

Hans Rott's is indeed a wonderful piece. In addition I'd nominate a couple of First Symphonies from the Russian repertoire, Balakirev's in C major and Kalinnikov's in G minor.


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## Strange Magic

Martinu
Sibelius
Walton
Prokofiev 
Brahms


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## JAS

Kalinnikov has already gotten a mention, so I will add a few more Russians: Borodin, Rimsky Korsakov, Gliere and Glazunov. And not to be too Russian, I will also nominate Chausson.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Symphonie Fantastique is probably the most remarkable considering the time and how early in Berlioz's musical career it was written .


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## Lenny

Strange Magic said:


> Martinu
> Sibelius
> Walton
> Prokofiev
> Brahms


Martinu is very good candidate also in my books. Brahms not so much, because his marvelous symphony was "to be expected", nothing more, nothing less.

Sometimes I think about young Brahms writing fantastic, spontaneous symphony in a spirit of his early works, like the piano sonata, scherzo of "F-A-E" sonata. What would that be like?


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## Heck148

Shostakovich
Sibelius
Walton
are my favorite First Symphonies....
Shostakovich #1 is really remarkable - DS was 19, it was his Graduation piece from Petrograd Conservatory.


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## Klassik

The Bizet recommendation is a good one. I may be in the minority with this, but Sibelius' 1st is my favorite Sibelius symphony. Brahms and Schumann's 1st symphonies are quite good too, but I'm not totally sure if Schumann's 1st is actually the first complete symphony that he wrote. For something a little different, I feel that Atterberg and Stenhammar's first symphonies are quite good. It may not be for everyone, but Barber's 1st symphony is pretty good. I could name many more, but those are some that come to mind.


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## Merl

Mahler's 1st for me. Love it.


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## Xaltotun

There are a lot of first symphonies of the highest caliber. Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Bruckner (#1) and Franck haven't been mentioned yet.


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## Orfeo

Without hesitation, I would pick *Gavriil Popov's* First Symphony. It is to my mind a masterpiece, and I can see how Shostakovich learned a few things from it as he embarked on his Fourth. Other glorious examples include:

Erno Dohnanyi (mighty impressive, bold work)
Boris Lyatoshynsky
Sergei Rachmaninoff
Albert Roussel
Samuel Barber
Howard Hanson (better than his Second, in my humble opinion)
Leonard Bernstein
Ralph Vaughan Williams
William Walton
Eugene Goossens
Andrei Eshpai
Gordon Jacob
Adolfs Skulte
Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov
David Diamond
Alexander Scriabin
Arnold Bax (more or less: the finale a bit less compelling than the first & second movements)
Kurt Atterberg (maybe)


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## jdec

Foe me: Brahms, Mahler, Prokofiev, Berlioz.


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## aglayaepanchin

Sibelius' first was not one of my favorites at first but it took some listening and these days I definitely consider it a remarkable first. Others that come to mind right away are Brahms and Rachmaninov.


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## hpowders

Mahler, Brahms and Prokofiev.

The Schumann first, motivated Robert to spring into action with at least two better attempts.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> The Schumann motivated him to spring into action with at least two better attempts.


Very pun-ny! 

But I agree that Mahler's 1st is one of his best works IMO. Obviously others will go in a different direction though.


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## Robert Gamble

Louise Farrenc's Symphony in C Minor


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## Sloe

Brahms, Schumann, Elgar and Prokofjev are the ones I think of.


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## techniquest

Shostakovich
Walton
Khachaturian
Mahler
Rachmaninov


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## Tchaikov6

The only symphony I have left to add is Tchaikovsky. Breathtaking and magical!



techniquest said:


> Shostakovich
> Walton
> Khachaturian
> Mahler
> *Rachmaninov*


I love his first symphony, although this is what one critic said at the premiere:

"If there were a conservatory in Hell, and if one of its talented students were to compose a programme symphony based on the story of the Ten Plagues of Egypt, and if he were to compose a symphony like Mr. Rachmaninoff's, then he would have fulfilled his task brilliantly and would delight the inhabitants of Hell. To us this music leaves an evil impression with its broken rhythms, obscurity and vagueness of form, meaningless repetition of the same short tricks, the nasal sound of the orchestra, the strained crash of the brass, and above all its sickly perverse harmonization and quasi-melodic outlines, the complete absence of simplicity and naturalness, the complete absence of themes."

Ouch! No wonder Rachmaninov went into depression!


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## Heck148

Tchaikov6 said:


> although this is what one critic said at the premiere:
> 
> "If there were a conservatory in Hell, and if one of its talented students were to compose a programme symphony based on the story of the Ten Plagues of Egypt, and if he were to compose a symphony like Mr. Rachmaninoff's, then he would have fulfilled his task brilliantly and would delight the inhabitants of Hell. To us this music leaves an evil impression with its broken rhythms, obscurity and vagueness of form, meaningless repetition of the same short tricks, the nasal sound of the orchestra, the strained crash of the brass, and above all its sickly perverse harmonization and quasi-melodic outlines, the complete absence of simplicity and naturalness, the complete absence of themes."
> 
> Ouch! No wonder Rachmaninov went into depression!


Um...no comment...:devil:


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## Portamento

Umm... Schnittke anyone?


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## Becca

Hans Rott for sure but I do disagree about Sibelius as I think it is his least Sibelian.

Also...
View attachment 94049


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## Olias

Shostakovich.

Also Mozart considering he was 8 years old.


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## chalkpie

Ives, Sibelius, DSCH, Mahler, Prokofiev, Lutoslawski


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## StlukesguildOhio

Beethoven
Brahms
Mahler
Tchaikovsky
Ralph Vaughan Williams
Bizet
Berlioz


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## Woodduck

I prefer Shostakovich's First to most of his more bombastic later efforts. It's striking, original, and concise.


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## Pugg

Mahler, Beethoven and Aram Khachaturian.


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## Animal the Drummer

Lenny said:


> Martinu is very good candidate also in my books. Brahms not so much, because his marvelous symphony was "to be expected", nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Sometimes I think about young Brahms writing fantastic, spontaneous symphony in a spirit of his early works, like the piano sonata, scherzo of "F-A-E" sonata. What would that be like?


It'd be like the D minor piano concerto. That was a symphony in draft before Brahms settled on its final form.


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## Rach Man

I am partial to Mahler's Symphony #1.

I do have a question, though. Was Brahms' 1st symphony really his 1st symphony? Or was it his 4th? Or 3rd?


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## elgar's ghost

Ernst Krenek's op.7, composed in 1921 when he was barely out of his teens. It's a work containing different changes of pace and mood but is played continuously - what's perhaps most startling is that Krenek's idea for producing an evolving piece of music containing 'mini-movements' seems to predate Sibelius's similar thoughts for his 7th, which was completed three years later. Understandably the work may be seen as a bit chaotic and lacking the focus and precision of the Sibelius but although young Krenek may have totally lacked the Finnish master's experience and maturity he certainly deserves to be admired for his chutzpah.


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## Lenny

Animal the Drummer said:


> It'd be like the D minor piano concerto. That was a symphony in draft before Brahms settled on its final form.


Oh, that I didn't know. It's a great work!


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## znapschatz

I’m surprised there were not all that many who chose Shostakovich. The others were quite fine, deserving of mention and praise, but I believe this one belongs on any list of remarkable first symphonies. It not only introduces a great talent, but also tells us what to expect during the course of an illustrious career, both in triumph and despair.


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## AfterHours

Portamento said:


> Umm... Schnittke anyone?


Undoubtedly deserves mention among the very best.


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## KenOC

znapschatz said:


> I'm surprised there were not all that many who chose Shostakovich.


Maybe that's because, for some of us, it's simply too obvious to mention.


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## Heck148

znapschatz said:


> I'm surprised there were not all that many who chose Shostakovich. ..... It not only introduces a great talent, but also tells us what to expect during the course of an illustrious career, both in triumph and despair.


Right- it was a student work - yet remarkable for its brilliance - the signs of genius are already well apparent, an harbinger of things to come.


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## Bettina

Heck148 said:


> Right- it was a student work - yet remarkable for its brilliance - the signs of genius are already well apparent, an harbinger of things to come.


As soon as I saw that you had posted in this thread, my first thought was "I know what symphony he DIDN'T choose!":lol:


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## poodlebites

Roberto Gerhard's 1st Symphony is pretty good, if you ask me...


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## Pat Fairlea

Lots of good examples here. A couple of posts have mentioned VW's 1st. The truly remarkable thing about that piece is its scale and ambition for a First Symphony. "Now, I have never written a symphony before, so let's go all in with full orchestra, heroic-scale poetry and a dam' great choir!".
Which, come to think of it, is what a relatively young Sibelius did with Kullervo.


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## Animal the Drummer

Rach Man said:


> I am partial to Mahler's Symphony #1.
> 
> I do have a question, though. Was Brahms' 1st symphony really his 1st symphony? Or was it his 4th? Or 3rd?


It was his first published symphony, though he'd made a previous attempt or two before recasting them in other forms.


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## Lenny

Orfeo said:


> Without hesitation, I would pick *Gavriil Popov's* First Symphony. It is to my mind a masterpiece, and I can see how Shostakovich learned a few things from it as he embarked on his Fourth. Other glorious examples include:
> 
> Erno Dohnanyi (mighty impressive, bold work)
> Boris Lyatoshynsky
> Sergei Rachmaninoff
> Albert Roussel
> Samuel Barber
> Howard Hanson (better than his Second, in my humble opinion)
> Leonard Bernstein
> Ralph Vaughan Williams
> William Walton
> Eugene Goossens
> Andrei Eshpai
> Gordon Jacob
> Adolfs Skulte
> Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov
> David Diamond
> Alexander Scriabin
> Arnold Bax (more or less: the finale a bit less compelling than the first & second movements)
> Kurt Atterberg (maybe)


Nice list! Some new names for me. I also really like Dohanyi's symphony.


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## Lenny

elgars ghost said:


> Ernst Krenek's op.7, composed in 1921 when he was barely out of his teens. It's a work containing different changes of pace and mood but is played continuously - what's perhaps most startling is that Krenek's idea for producing an evolving piece of music containing 'mini-movements' seems to predate Sibelius's similar thoughts for his 7th, which was completed three years later. Understandably the work may be seen as a bit chaotic and lacking the focus and precision of the Sibelius but although young Krenek may have totally lacked the Finnish master's experience and maturity he certainly deserves to be admired for his chutzpah.


Can't find his first symphony! 

But I like what I'm hearing in his later music.


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## elgar's ghost

Lenny said:


> Can't find his first symphony!
> 
> But I like what I'm hearing in his later music.


Here you go - it's the only available recording I know of (on the cpo label).


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## Judith

My favourite is Brahms!

Listening to it the other night on BBC Radio 3!

Was performed by

BBC Philharmonic Orchestra 
Michael Seal

I was having a leisurely soak in the bath and was listening to it on radio/toilet roll holder that I recently posted about!


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## chill782002

This is pretty special as a first symphony. Not as obscure as it used to be, more people are getting to like it.


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## DeepR

That choral finale is quite something. It's a bit messy in a strangely alluring way.


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## Lenny

elgars ghost said:


> Here you go - it's the only available recording I know of (on the cpo label).


Thanks. This is really good.

I have to confess: before this thread, I've never heard Krenek's music, so I started exploring. I like his style. I have no idea how to classify this music, some weird brand of post-romantic tonalism, but who cares. Then I read from the wikipedia, that he ALSO was married to Alma Mahler. What a world.


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## AfterHours

Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz, though there are many other excellent selections, such as those mentioned in this thread already.


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## Oldhoosierdude

This Bizet recording is one of my all time favorite cds. The Weber Symphony is good too.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Surprised no one has mentioned Joseph Haydn and his first symphony.


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## R3PL4Y

I don't know how familiar others are with this composer, but I quite like Carlos Chavez's Sinfonia de Antigona, which is usually considered his first symphony.


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## Art Rock

Most of my picks have already been mentioned, but I don't think I've seen Moeran's beautiful first listed in previous posts.


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## Becca

Art Rock said:


> Most of my picks have already been mentioned, but I don't think I've seen Moeran's beautiful first listed in previous posts.


Isn't that is only? Assuming you don't count the sinfonietta.


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## Art Rock

A second (completed by another composer/conductor) has been recorded more recently (link).


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## Becca

Art Rock said:


> A second (completed by another composer/conductor) has been recorded more recently (link).


Thank you! I don't know why I was unaware of it.


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## Hydrarchos

I'd like to plea in favor of Niels Gade's first symphony. A wonderfully energetic work with no disappointments from start to finish.

Also, Rued Langgaard's massive First Symphony (written at the age of 15) and Korngold's Sinfonietta (which is a full symphony in all but name, also written when the composer was 15) would deserve a mention I think. Although in Langgaard's case the work's style and structure rather make me suspect it was a collaborative work of Rued and his father, Siegfried. In which case it qualifies as a remarkable first symphony for both of them.


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## Rach Man

I don't think that Dvorak's 1st is his best symphony, but I really like Symphony #1 In C Minor - "The Bells Of Zlonice" .


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## DeepR

DeepR said:


> That choral finale is quite something. It's a bit messy in a strangely alluring way.


I've been listening more to this piece and I think it's a fantastic symphony. I'm sure there are reasons why this doesn't measure up to more established symphonies/composers, but I don't hear or care for them at the moment. It's a bit of a hodge-podge I guess. Anyway, I'm enjoying it way too much. The ending is totally epic, grandiose! Second movement is great too, some gorgeous moments in there.


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