# I guess I'm old, I don't understand the phone obsession.



## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Not complaining just puzzled. 

I work with people from 20's to 60's and most of them can't put their personal phone down for more than a few minutes. It's often difficult to get work done when I need their input or some task so I can do what I need to do. Thankfully, much of what I do is independent.

Trying to converse with them is about useless. Thet can't carry on a conversation for 60 seconds. Some even get visibly annoyed when I disturb their messaging/Twitter/Facebook thing. I have walked away from more than one suspended conversation both work and personal.

My wife does it. Only with her I can say something or she will realize it on her own.

Who knows, maybe I'm just that boring. Or being over sensitive. In any case I don't understand the phone obsession.


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## neofite (Feb 19, 2017)

No, you're probably not boring, and definitely not over-sensitive.

But please don't blame them. They can't help it. It's extremely addictive, kind of like opioids, and in large part by design.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm old too... $1000 devices that have reduced communication to an over-encoded bunch of nothing


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I still refuse to have one.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Have you ever noticed that you can do something with a phone for a while then put it down and within a very short time some kind of notification happens? I am wondering if this is by chance or design. Something to keep you looking.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

It is sad how much you see adults in public with each other, often with children and they can't stop looking at phones. 

Life is happening in front of them and they can't look up.

It is also amazing how upset people get if you say something about phone use when you are trying to talk to them.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I guess I can read a book and shut the world out. Don't do it walking down the street, while working or driving.


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## erki (Feb 17, 2020)

I think or hope it will pass. As anything has been so far.
I was at the family gathering recently where all younger persons kept their phones at close hand and were messaging constantly. When they were confronted they explained this: it is considered impolite not to answer a message immediately!
Although I like mobile phones me and my wife have button models. Mine costs only 25EUR and has very good battery life. She uses hers for 12 years and is going on strong.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

The electronic ball and chain. I have an iphone 11, provided by my employer and, while it is useful and the company picks up all the bills, they haven't given it to me out of the goodness of their hearts but rather so they can email / message me anytime anyplace... Technology has meant that there are fewer excuses one can provide for not being immediately available, apart from being asleep, I suppose.

On a more general note, my wife and teenage daughter seem to spend most of their time glued to theirs. In fact, I would go as far as to say that access to the internet through smartphones has replaced the TV as a main source of entertainment as was the case in my younger years. Although at least TV had the advantage that it lent itself much more to shared enjoyment than a smartphone does. As we become more virtually connected, we have less and less face to face interaction. In fact, I have observed my daughter and nieces messaging each other when they were in the same room rather than talking face to face!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2020)

I certainly vowed never to have one, but was compelled to at my last job. As the tech changed over the years, so did my addiction to the phone. I've now had my own phone for 10 years, though will try to make my current Samsung S8 my last upgrade (for environmental reasons).

Whilst other people's addiction can be infuriating, there are several advantages to having a phone that enables much more frequent contact with friends and family, for example.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It distresses me to see how completely addicted some people are to their little rectangular comfort blankets - I've seen some with their noses stuck in them in checkout queues, unable to wait five minutes until they are outside. I particularly get annoyed when it turns folk into jaywalking zombies - I sometimes wish that I was carrying a bullhorn when they head my way. 

I certainly didn't waste hundreds of pounds when I had to buy a new one, and despite it containing a multitude of features I still hardly use it for anything but calls and texts.


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## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

Art Rock said:


> I still refuse to have one.


Same here; only possible NEED I can see for one is having a vehicle breakdown in a remote location, although if it's that remote probably no cell coverage.
However, I did enjoy sitting in a local mall watching the phone zombies frequent collisions.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Next to my bulky photo camera I bought the Nokia Pureview 808, when this Nokia flagship was sinking in 2012, just because of its excellent photo camera. Well, in normal light conditions that is. Apart from the photo camera there is an excellent MP3 player on board and yes, it is easy to use as a phone.


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## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> I still refuse to have one.


I purchased a flip phone when I traveled to NYC and Chicago last November. For me, it acts as a portable public telephone, which you can no longer find. I have it turned off all the time unless I need to make a call.

The smart phones are incredible in their ability to bring the world into the palm of your hand, but they are designed to keep your interest. I don't want one because I'm sure if I got into it, I'd become like everyone else, holding it in the palm of my hand like it was some precious icon.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

chill782002 said:


> The electronic ball and chain. I have an iphone 11, provided by my employer and, while it is useful and the company picks up all the bills, they haven't given it to me out of the goodness of their hearts but rather so they can email / message me anytime anyplace...


That was the case with my last phone. It was my own, but I had my hospital's software installed on it, which caused no shortage of headaches due to the hospital's security protocols. When the phone died, I didn't make the same mistake. And no one seems to be unable to reach me when there's an urgent matter.

More generally, the problem isn't the phone - there are countless apps that really make my life easier or better or more convenient in some way - the problem is people who lack common sense and manners.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I use mine indoors at home. I do not take a phone with me when I go out for a walk. I see others on their phone while walking by the lake and I think, what is the point? And don't get me started about all of the idiots at live performances. People can't even get themselves to turn them off in a church. And with rock n roll ring tones no less. That happened the last time I took my wife to mass. And the woman couldn't even figure out how to turn off her own phone after the rock concert started, lol!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I have my phone on vibrate and paired to my smartwatch, so if I get a notification, I just look at my wrist and don't have to pick the phone up and then get hooked in to catching up on social media. (I have to keep connected, because I'm an independent contractor, so I never know when I'll be called on a job). 

On the other hand, it is nice to have the internet in my hand so I can fact-check the bloviators.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I fall comfortably into the demographic that is usually obsessed with electronic stuff, and though I have a phone I try to only use it for essentials. Why waste time staring at a screen when one can be listening to great music, reading great books, and having great conversations on TC? What bothers me even more than people being glued to screens is gluing their kids to screens to get them distracted. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen, in restaurants and other public places, parents (mostly younger ones) simply handing their toddler a tablet and totally ignoring him (while he totally ignores them), as if it’s a pacifier. What happened to imagination, hands-on activities, playing outside? I am similarly skeptical about tablets in school starting in kindergarten.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2020)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Not complaining just puzzled.
> 
> I work with people from 20's to 60's and most of them can't put their personal phone down for more than a few minutes. It's often difficult to get work done when I need their input or some task so I can do what I need to do. Thankfully, much of what I do is independent.
> 
> ...


I understand that there is an industry in creating addictive apps for smart phone that capture and won't release people's attention. But avoiding that I find the smartphone to be an extremely enriching gadget. In my pocket I a screen with resolution equal to my laptop PC, I have every photo I've ever taken, access to all of my jazz and popular music recordings, access to all of my essential documents, a fully functional web browser allowing me to look up any information I might need, a GPS device allowing me to navigate the physical world, a messaging app for keeping up with the activities of my family, a scientific calculator, my calendar, a timer and alarm clock. The most addictive computer thing for me is probably this web site.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

TxllxT said:


> Next to my bulky photo camera I bought the Nokia Pureview 808, when this Nokia flagship was sinking in 2012, just because of its excellent photo camera. Well, in normal light conditions that is. Apart from the photo camera there is an excellent MP3 player on board and yes, it is easy to use as a phone.


Ah, you hit on one. I store and listen to music with my phone so there is that.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I believe the telephone a Satanic invention. My last job require talking to people on the phone and giving them bad news or receiving bad news. In addition, there is a tyranny in telephone usage that puts the called at the disadvantage of the caller--one is either to answer the placed call then and there or deal with it later. And what profound thing was ever said on a phone? The old-fashioned letter passed back and forth among/between the American Founding Fathers and among/between the great minds and hearts of history, carrying much of what we still treasure today. The beauty of the letter--and of its modern counterpart, the email, is that one sends it at one's pace and leisure and the recipient receives, acknowledges, replies at his/her leisure--the temporal tyranny of caller/called is entirely removed, or rather reduced to the point of triviality.

I have an old "candy bar" cellphone that I pay $100 per year for, total. As I remember, the phone was free. It is for the possible roadside emergency or to call my wife if I'll be late. Zoom is good, once a time and date is mutually agreed to. But talk to somebody on the phone? I think not.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Boy Magic, you are old. Phones are for taking selfies and reading gossip on Twitter and Instagram. The occasional conversation usually happens when an individual should be paying attention to other things like driving.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I just read a sci-fi novel (_Accelerando_ by Charles Stross) in which it gets much worse. In an early scene, one of the heroes is mugged and his hi-tech glasses are stolen, resulting in amnesia. It can be read as a cautionary tale about the dangers of farming out ones memory and other mental functions to devices and implants.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

It's part of my daily life but it doesn't rule me. Rather, I use it to save me time and effort and do all sorts with it - book hotels, flights, check my bank account , listen to the music I love, transfer money and message and chat with my sons 300 Miles away and my family on the other side of the planet. If used wisely it saves you effort and frustration. I make it work for me!


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

MacLeod said:


> I certainly vowed never to have one, but was compelled to at my last job. As the tech changed over the years, so did my addiction to the phone. I've now had my own phone for 10 years, though *will try to make my current Samsung S8 my last upgrade* (for environmental reasons).
> 
> Whilst other people's addiction can be infuriating, there are several advantages to having a phone that enables much more frequent contact with friends and family, for example.


Good luck with that.

Because the technology continues to change, eventually your phone will become 'vintage', as my iPhone 5C has become. It no longer receives OS updates, and slowly, one by one, apps no longer work as their programming updates exceed the limits of the phone.

Mine 5C has a cracked screen, and the little speaker used to make calls no longer works, although I can still make real phone calls if I use "speaker" mode (meaning I don't hold it up to my ear).

Once in a while it gives me a notification that the battery is down to a critical level (like, say 4%: would I like to put the phone in energy saving mode?), but it isn't, it just THINKS it is. I'll plug it in, or power it off then back on, only to discover it's got well over 50% battery reserves.

Sometimes it just freezes up, usually because I've asked it to do too many things simultaneously (usually not intentionally doing so).

I'll need to upgrade soon, and replacements are pricey. I think I'll go with an iPhone SE, which is an 11 in an 8 case. I'll buy it through my carrier, and will make monthly payments for a couple of years.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2020)

pianozach said:


> Good luck with that.


You're probably right. It's a vain hope that we might all get off this ever-expanding, all-consuming technology lark.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

*I guess I'm old, I don't understand the phone*

Funny, when the thread title comes up in the LATEST POSTS list, it appears truncated:

*I guess I'm old, I don't understand the phone*

It made me giggle. That would be so-o-o-o-o old.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

How many old folks have been saved from dying because they had a phone with them, or someone close by could call for help?


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

pianozach said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> Because the technology continues to change, eventually your phone will become 'vintage', as my iPhone 5C has become. It no longer receives OS updates, and slowly, one by one, apps no longer work as their programming updates exceed the limits of the phone.
> 
> ...


And then don't put it up to your brain again.

On a job years ago we used FM radios for communication (only transmitting to the nearby repeater and back). We were warned not to talk with the transmitter close to our heads! It was dangerous even at those energy levels.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Luchesi said:


> How many old folks have been saved from dying because they had a phone with them, or someone close by could call for help?


Yeah dude, not the point.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

It's more the apps and the culture to me, mainly social media like Instagram. My step-daughter cares more of what these people on social media think than her own parents. When I confronted her with what I was able to nail down due to a certain character flaw, she would try to shrug it off, saying it's only my opinion (which doesn't matter when it's offline); and puts on these airs with her mom (who's not really into these things) when she tells her to stop with the phone.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

I don't know if anybody's mentioned it, but an important capability I use is to take quick snapshots of notes I've scribbled or any piece of information I need to remember, on the quick. 
Shots of shopping lists and products (the type of blades I need for my brand of razor and my water filters, etc. etc.), sometimes where I've parked, reminders for kids' birthdays, nags to pay bills on time, on and on..

A friend of mine takes a picture of what's in his refrigerator and pantry. I have an app to tell me when a food item needs to be repurchased. It doesn't work very well, he says his method is better.. lol


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Way off the original subject here. Never said phones are a bad thing or not useful or that I don't take advantage of their capabilities. Never said they have not saved lives,( don't know how some silly person read that in).

My objection is to how some let the phone rule their life and place phone usage above in person human interaction, above workplace cooperation, above consideration for others, you get the idea.

Two totally different concepts.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> . . .
> My objection is to how some let the phone rule their life and place phone usage above in person human interaction, above workplace cooperation, above consideration for others, you get the idea.


Mine too. About a year ago observed a family of four enter the restaurant where my wife and I were dining. It was a rather upscale restaurant, not your normal hash house kind of place.

Mom, Dad and their two sons, who looked like they were 10 or 12 years old, sat down. Immediately the entire family drags out their phones and start texting emailing or whatever, totally oblivious that they are a "family". One of the kids starts to laugh at something he has seen on his phone ... his brother notices the humor and asks what is so funny. The other brother, instead of just showing it to him, says "I'll send it to you via email"!

Kids aged 10 and 12 have email ... and nice bright shiny smartphones too? When the waiter arrives to take their order, they say "oh, we need more time to look at the menu" ... when they had just spend 10 minutes texting/whatever on their phones, too.

Total dysfunctional family ... bet their parents also email them when it's time for supper or when to go to bed (?).


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Way off the original subject here. Never said phones are a bad thing or not useful or that I don't take advantage of their capabilities. Never said they have not saved lives,( don't know how some silly person read that in).
> 
> My objection is to how some let the phone rule their life and place phone usage above in person human interaction, above workplace cooperation, above consideration for others, you get the idea.
> 
> Two totally different concepts.


We could have one without the other? We could blame the population, but they're a defined product of what has happened with semiconductors since the 1970s (sad to say).


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Krummhorn said:


> Mine too. About a year ago observed a family of four enter the restaurant where my wife and I were dining. It was a rather upscale restaurant, not your normal hash house kind of place.
> 
> Mom, Dad and their two sons, who looked like they were 10 or 12 years old, sat down. Immediately the entire family drags out their phones and start texting emailing or whatever, totally oblivious that they are a "family". One of the kids starts to laugh at something he has seen on his phone ... his brother notices the humor and asks what is so funny. The other brother, instead of just showing it to him, says "I'll send it to you via email"!
> 
> ...


We could guess that it's damaging to the kids. Or we could guess that it's getting them prepared for the new world, so foreign to us old geezers.

I can remember calling my girlfriend by dialing just 4 digits. She might be able to talk, but might not.. We just took this for granted before the onset of instant communication and instant info off the web. We went to the library. It was a physical adventure.


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## En Passant (Aug 1, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> I still refuse to have one.


I'm 31 and feel the same my family complain constantly but I feel "Smart Phones" dehumanise people. My eldest is ten I refuse to get them mobile/cell phones. Apparently children as young as five now have their own iPhone! As much as I recognise how useful technology is I don't like the path we're heading down.

I've not seem that picture of Richter before I love it.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

En Passant said:


> I'm 31 and feel the same my family complain constantly but I feel "Smart Phones" dehumanise people. My eldest is ten I refuse to get them mobile/cell phones. Apparently children as young as five now have their own iPhone! As much as I recognise how useful technology is I don't like the path we're heading down.
> 
> I've not seem that picture of Richter before I love it.


Welcome to the forum.

The change did seem to be accelerating. To me, now it seems to be slowing (at a high level of change).

Newsflash, the virtual world tech is coming and this will be a scary acceleration, I think. Health officials will become concerned.

If I still had young children I would want them in my GPS circle so that I would always know where they are.


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## En Passant (Aug 1, 2020)

Luchesi said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> The change did seem to be accelerating. To me, now it seems to be slowing (at a high level of change).
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. I understand your feelings I think every parent has that desire but I feel that would smother the child and stunt their development. I am fortunate to live in a small Scottish village where it is safe just to let the kids run free (most of the time).

Constant smart phone/social media use has been proven to rewire the reward centre of the brain and shrink frontal lobe size. This leads to a lack of patience and addictive symptoms in test subjects. I'm not overly worried about this in my children but you can see the signs of this in both adults and children alike just in my village.


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## Ich muss Caligari werden (Jul 15, 2020)

I have only an elderly Trak-Phone and do not understand how to text on it (a friend of mine who routinely texts looked at it and could not figure it out either). I don't get many calls on it ("Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen") and am frankly grateful for the fact as I regard it as potentially a health threat. I don't pretend to understand the whys of it; scientists themselves seem unsure about its risks (though the French Dept. of Health recommended that children's phone time be limited). Still, two people I know have died of brain tumors and its incidence appears on the rise. So many folks seem to value what's on their tiny screens far more than the world in front of them, and yes, agree that in-person conversation seems a dying art.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

The evolution of the telephone is actually pretty fascinating, and the developments in the last 20 to 30 years have been numerous and astonishing.

From a device with a cone you yell into with an earpiece held up to the ear, all of which required connection to an exchange with a live person at a switchboard . . . 

to private lines with word prefixes ("Pennsyvania 6-5000!") and rotating mechanical dials that created a series of clicks . . . 

to the push-button phone with tones

and then mobile phones the size of a loaf of bread.

then tortuous texting using the number pads, flip phones, slide phones with little typewriter keys.

Now they're little computers. They have speech recognition, and talk back to us (Siri), navigation, GPS, cameras, calendars/appointment minders, weather reports, digital music libraries, internet browsers, games, and apps of all sorts. 

And they can cost a thousand bucks or more to get a deluxe one. 

If I lose mine, or if it's stolen, I can track it from my computer, or even shut it down remotely. I can even make video calls and videos. I know someone with the remote wrist device, and it reminds me so much of the old Dick Tracy two-way video calls, just as the flip phones reminded me of Star Trek.

My 6-year-old iPhone 5C has 100 times the capabilities of my first Mac computer (although it's not really conducive to long form communications, like blogs or letters).


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## En Passant (Aug 1, 2020)

pianozach said:


> The evolution of the telephone is actually pretty fascinating, and the developments in the last 20 to 30 years have been numerous and astonishing.
> 
> From a device with a cone you yell into with an earpiece held up to the ear, all of which required connection to an exchange with a live person at a switchboard . . .
> 
> ...


Good post. I still have reservations about these devices especially for young children. Recent studies show they have a negative impact on peoples brains (this is obviously amplified the younger you are). Even though I'm aware it is standard for children to have a cellphone these days.

You made a good point about the power of the phones something I've not considered before. I first used a PC (I believe it was the "Macintosh Classic II") in 1995. Even though it was an older model by this point it was still not something I'd seen outside of school or my Father's office. Even the cheapest of smart phones is much more advanced as you said. It is almost misleading to describe them as phones.

If you son't mind what was the first Mac you used?


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

En Passant said:


> Good post. I still have reservations about these devices especially for young children. Recent studies show they have a negative impact on peoples brains (this is obviously amplified the younger you are). Even though I'm aware it is standard for children to have a cellphone these days.
> 
> You made a good point about the power of the phones something I've not considered before. I first used a PC (I believe it was the "Macintosh Classic II") in 1995. Even though it was an older model by this point it was still not something I'd seen outside of school or my Father's office. Even the cheapest of smart phones is much more advanced as you said. It is almost misleading to describe them as phones.
> 
> If you son't mind what was the first Mac you used?


It was a Mac Plus, made famous in the Bloom County comic strip as the Banana Jr., the computer of Oliver Wendell Jones. It was a Mac Plus with legs and feet.

I bought it used. It came with an optional external 20 MB hard drive. I thought I'd never fill it up! 20 MB. Finally I started to run out of room on it, so I bought a massive 70 MB hard drive.

I thought I'd never fill it up! But eventually I started to run out of room on it, so I bought a massive 170 MB hard drive.

Eventually I had to upgrade when the dot matrix printer finally died, and replacements weren't available, as they were obsolete. Along with the new printer, I had to purchase a more modern Mac, as the old mac couldn't handle any new printer available.

As far as being harmful to childrens' development, it may keep them from developing social skills as we learned growing up, but keeping this technology FROM them will hinder them in other ways.

I wouldn't worry unless its use becomes obsessive. Parents have long warned against whatever "teenagers these days" play with, listen to, watch, do, wear, drive, even how they dance. People warned us against the use of radios in cars, as they might be too distracting.


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## En Passant (Aug 1, 2020)

pianozach said:


> As far as being harmful to childrens' development, it may keep them from developing social skills as we learned growing up, but keeping this technology FROM them will hinder them in other ways.
> 
> I wouldn't worry unless its use becomes obsessive. Parents have long warned against whatever "teenagers these days" play with, listen to, watch, do, wear, drive, even how they dance. People warned us against the use of radios in cars, as they might be too distracting.


I agree in part with what you said, just to be clear I wasn't trying to criticise you or anyone else. I don't remember where I read it so I didn't want to mention it until I had links but I have read it can alter frontal lobe development. It doesn't take that much to start causing issues and they are not always immediately apparent.

I do agree it's wrong to keep all technology away from them. My eldest 4 can touch type etc and have supervised access to the internet.

As for hard drive space it's perhaps one of my biggest regrets spending $120 for a 80 GB external drive. For work now you need terabytes upon terabytes (at least I can write it off as a business expense) :lol:


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2020)

I was speaking to my grandson on Friday for his 11th birthday; he got a smart watch from his father (my son). Later my son said how much smarter his children are now compared to his own generation and (by inference) the one before (me). I agreed that they could use technology in the most incredible way but that there is (or was when I was teaching) a growing divide between the information 'rich' and the information 'poor' - that some families simply cannot afford to engage in a technology 'race' and their kids are left behind. I saw it 15 years ago.

But I also commented on my grandson, who is a prolific reader and is working his way through all the Harry Potter books. I asked him about those books and he described them as "dark". But he also keeps mentally active trying to fend off the propaganda at school that passes for teaching. I told my son that despite clever skills with technology there's still a substantial cohort of the younger generation who cannot read or write adequately and that this would hold them back - since it's impossible to negotiate life without either skill; at least, to be taken seriously. So, I don't hold with the view that this generation is smarter than the one before; leaps in IQ just don't happen that quickly. And, besides, it's possible for an IQ to increase or diminish; I've seen it happen, where once academics and experts believed it was a fixture which couldn't be altered. Ergo, there is technological IQ, intellectual IQ and emotional IQ. These things have to all exist simultaneously for somebody to be regarded as bright but, of course, we all do know about nerdy people who have just one of these. Look at Glenn Gould!! He was a one-trick pony. His brightness existed on the wing of a fly (like many academics) but I wouldn't have thought him particularly 'smart'.


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## En Passant (Aug 1, 2020)

Christabel said:


> I was speaking to my grandson on Friday for his 11th birthday; he got a smart watch from his father (my son). Later my son said how much smarter his children are now compared to his own generation and (by inference) the one before (me). I agreed that they could use technology in the most incredible way but that there is (or was when I was teaching) a growing divide between the information 'rich' and the information 'poor' - that some families simply cannot afford to engage in a technology 'race' and their kids are left behind. I saw it 15 years ago.
> 
> But I also commented on my grandson, who is a prolific reader and is working his way through all the Harry Potter books. I asked him about those books and he described them as "dark". But he also keeps mentally active trying to fend off the propaganda at school that passes for teaching. I told my son that despite clever skills with technology there's still a substantial cohort of the younger generation who cannot read or write adequately and that this would hold them back - since it's impossible to negotiate life without either skill; at least, to be taken seriously. So, I don't hold with the view that this generation is smarter than the one before; leaps in IQ just don't happen that quickly. And, besides, it's possible for an IQ to increase or diminish; I've seen it happen, where once academics and experts believed it was a fixture which couldn't be altered. Ergo, there is technological IQ, intellectual IQ and emotional IQ. These things have to all exist simultaneously for somebody to be regarded as bright but, of course, we all do know about nerdy people who have just one of these. Look at Glenn Gould!! He was a one-trick pony. His brightness existed on the wing of a fly (like many academics) but I wouldn't have thought him particularly 'smart'.


Great post. I am glad your Grandson is smart enough to think for himself re: school. The standard of teaching has declined since I left school (I'm in my 30s). I went back to Balliol College as a guest speaker two years ago and even here the standard had declined so much to make things worse the rest of the university was much worse off.

I don't agree with your Son that the younger generation is smarter. They are just more accustom to certain things having grown up with them. For example I've been using computers since I was four years old and can so pretty much anything on a software or hardware level. However I can't use social media to save my life I guess I could learn but it will never be instinctive like it is for my nieces. I look at it like growing up in a multilingual home French and German were second languages for me so when it came time to study them at school I had an advantage that no amount of teaching could overcome.

One last thing I'm so happy your Grandson finds pleasure in reading; I wish schools would focus on reading for pleasure. My eldest two are a year younger than your Grandson. They've just finished the Hobbit and are making their way through "Fellowship" at speed. It really warms your heart to see.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I teach high school in a large urban centre. I have never actually quantified with any accuracy or precision the number of students uses and abusing cellphones in class. 

Talking to my students, I'd say only about 2 or 3 per class (of 30) don't have phones. 

For about 1/2 of the students with phones, their phone is away, I rarely, if ever, see it, it isn't a problem. 

For the next 1/3 of the students, they use their phones a lot, but they are generally okay, they listen to me when they need to, but I do see their phones used. 

For the remaining 1/6 of the students they are unable to put their phones down, they are on their phones all the time, even when I'm teaching, they are completely obsessed and addicted to their phones. 

I am only talking about phone use in the classroom. 

In fact, some students use their phones quite productively in class - they photograph notes, they film experiments in slow motion, they use the dictionary and translator, and use the calculator. I have students using interesting apps such as accelerometer, magnetometer, inclinometer, stop watch. 

Phone use is a problem for some of the students, but not all. Let's not paint all teenagers with the same brush. We are discouraged from confiscated cell phones, simply because if they are lost or stolen, then we are on the hook for $100's to $1000's. And the administration will not make a blanket ban for all cell phones.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> I still refuse to have one.


That is impossible. You cannot apply to a job without a phone number. You are forced to have one.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Fortunately I'm retired. And web shops that demand a mobile number for registration will not get me as a customer.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

senza sordino said:


> I teach high school in a large urban centre. I have never actually quantified with any accuracy or precision the number of students uses and abusing cellphones in class.
> 
> Talking to my students, I'd say only about 2 or 3 per class (of 30) don't have phones.
> 
> ...


I'm a music specialist at two schools.

One is a Jr. High (or "Middle School"), 6th through 8th grades.

No phones. Kept in the locker or on a table by the door.

We occasionally request the students to bring their phones in to get audio recordings. Never a problem.

The high school requests that the students not use their phones for non-school uses while in class, unless it's some sort of "free time". Sometimes the teacher catches a student using their phone during class. They're told to put it away. No problem.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

pianozach said:


> I'm a music specialist at two schools.
> 
> One is a Jr. High (or "Middle School"), 6th through 8th grades.
> 
> ...


Do male teachers have it easier with such discipline than female teachers?


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

Let me be clear. I like cell phones. I just bought a new LG v60 ThinQ (broke my 4 year old LG V20). I love it. Holds all my digital music (about 40gb). And the sound through wi red headphones is great. Videos are perfect. Reception on this 5g network is fantastic compared to the old phone. It's great.

I think my biggest issue is some people's impulsive desire to look at their phone constantly. I work with a guy, and I like him, great guy. But I can't talk work or family or sports or anything for 60 seconds that he isn't distracted by the phone in his hand. Even when we are busy working on something I can see him tense up when the phone in his pocket goes off. 

I know me. I'm taking it personal and I have to remind myself that it isn't. My emotions are that is a slight to me personally and that individual sees the phone as more important. Silly. Even if true, the problem isn't mine, it becomes one of those talks I have to have with myself.

But still, manners please.


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