# Maria Callas International Club



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Are there any current members of the Maria Callas International Club?

I was doing my usual late night shopping and espied their website. Anyone have any comments on the Club and its benefits, pros and cons?

I know they have fantastic photos in their magazine, but I've never been tempted to join. But I'm thinking about it - the pandemic has prompted me to do many things....

Here's a photo I poached from their website :devil:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

It's something I have thought about as well, but I've never taken the plunge.

N.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

This is the current membership fee scheme:

• UK members: £50
• European members: €60
• Overseas members: $90
• Dutch members: €50

If you join the club, the main benefit is that you'll receive three issues of the Club's publication, _*Maria Callas Magazine*_, per calendar year. The magazines are usually released in mid April, mid August and mid December and are available in both printed and digital (PDF) formats.

Apart from the MCM, the Club has also issued a 496-page book *Maria Callas: Essays on All her Operatic Roles* by Peter Mul and the Club's President Mr. Karl van Zoggel, which is available only to Club members for purchase. The book contains around 150 photos, some of which are very rare and never seen before anywhere. The price is 35 Euro per printed copy (excluding shipping fee) and 25 Euro for digital copy (PDF).

The Club is now considering churning out another Club publication of about 230 pages, *Maria Callas in Chicago, 1954-1974: The Prima Donna Assoluta at the Civic Opera House*, written by Karl van Zoggel. The proposed publication promises to contain 200 photos. The earliest planned date of publication is end of 2020. However, if there is a possibility to obtain further and unknown information from The Lyric Opera in Chicago - after the Coronavirus restrictions - then the publication date will be later. Again the book will be available only to Club members for purchase. The expected price is set at 25 Euro per printed copy and 20 Euro per digital copy (PDF).

Sorry I can't paste the Magazine and book covers here, because I'm not sure whether TalkClassical admin allows this.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> This is the current membership fee scheme:
> 
> • UK members: £50
> • European members: €60
> ...


Thank you, Augastine! Very informative indeed! :tiphat::tiphat:


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Like Conte I've often considered joining but haven't ever got round to it, possibly because you can't just join on line using a payment card. It's so much easier when you can do something at the click of a button.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Like Conte I've often considered joining but haven't ever got round to it, possibly because you can't just join on line using a payment card. It's so much easier when you can do something at the click of a button.


Really? How does one pay? Maybe PayPal?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Really? How does one pay? Maybe PayPal?


I don't think it was that simple.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't think it was that simple.


I have been using PayPal for payments of the annual membership fee as well as the Club publication on Callas' operatic roles. But first you will have to get in touch with Mr. Karl van Zoggel (his email address is available on the Club's website). He would issue the invoices through PayPal to the email address you use for your PayPal account and you log in to your PayPal account to pay. The process is not too complicated and of course you should have a PayPal account with valid credit card info in the first place.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> I have been using PayPal for payments of the annual membership fee as well as the Club publication on Callas' operatic roles. But first you will have to get in touch with Mr. Karl van Zoggel (his email address is available on the Club's website). He would issue the invoices through PayPal to the email address you use for your PayPal account and you log in to your PayPal account to pay. The process is not too complicated and of course you should have a PayPal account with valid credit card info in the first place.


Great! I already have a PP account. Thank you so much again, Augastine!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Another great photograph culled from the MCIC.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

^That one should be from her _Parsifal_ performance in 1949 conducted by Serafin, if I'm not mistaken. The background and colours seem to be added to it artificially though.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Augastine said:


> I have been using PayPal for payments of the annual membership fee as well as the Club publication on Callas' operatic roles. But first you will have to get in touch with Mr. Karl van Zoggel (his email address is available on the Club's website). He would issue the invoices through PayPal to the email address you use for your PayPal account and you log in to your PayPal account to pay. The process is not too complicated and of course you should have a PayPal account with valid credit card info in the first place.


All easy enough. I guess I'm just being lazy.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

MAS said:


> Great! I already have a PP account. Thank you so much again, Augastine!


The _Maria Callas Magazines _contain a lot of informative articles. Here're the main contents of the latest issue (No. 90, July 2020):

-Interview for _Il Gazzettino_, 22 July 1947, at the time of Callas' Italian debut
-Interview by Claudia Cassidy for _Chicago Daily Tribune_, November 1954
-Interview for LIFE magazine, 20 April 1959, which is largely her fierce self-defence for
the 'scandals' in 1957-8
-Info and reviews on the internet of Divina Records' edition of _Poliuto_
-Article on the fabled Callas-Caselotti Acetate recordings and the obscure films of Callas' London 
TV concerts (1958 & 1959)
-Callas' earliest Greek autographs reconsidered
-A reappraisal of Callas' 1964 stereo remake recording of _Tosca_
-A selection of discussions on Callas from TalkClassical and Opera-L

Karl van Zoggel has been assiduously gathering, compiling and obtaining English translations of the interviews that Callas gave at various points in her life. You see three in this issue (with two at milestone moments in her career). There are a lot more in the back issues and more are expected to come in the forthcoming issues.

Note that Karl also selects and edits conversations on Callas from this TalkClassical site and Opera-L (now on Google Groups and only accessible through Google account and permission from Opera-L owner) that he thinks are interesting for inclusion in the Magazine.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

^ Lol. "From discussion on TalkClassical Forum on the Internet, 1-2 July 2020" :lol:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

annaw said:


> ^That one should be from her _Parsifal_ performance in 1949 conducted by Serafin, if I'm not mistaken. The background and colours seem to be added to it artificially though.


The colorization is excellent, though.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

annaw said:


> ^ Lol. "From discussion on TalkClassical Forum on the Internet, 1-2 July 2020" :lol:


I had no idea I might be quoted in a magazine just by posting here!

N.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

The Conte said:


> I had no idea I might be quoted in a magazine just by posting here!
> 
> N.


Actually, members who had participated in discussions on Callas here have been quoted from the July 2019 Magazine issue onwards ever since Karl took notice of this site. But don't worry, Karl has been doing good editing work to ensure presentability.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

The Conte said:


> I had no idea I might be quoted in a magazine just by posting here!
> 
> N.


You might be famous and you don't even know that .


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

For instance, The Conte reviewed some of the documentaries on Callas in the "New Callas Box" thread on this site. The reviews are all quoted in the March 2020 Magazine issue, and Karl lists a lot more documentary titles on Callas to supplement the reviews. Tsaras' discussion on the merits of the 1958 Covent Garden _Traviata_ in the "Discussion on 2020 TalkClassical Recommended Opera CDs and DVDs" thread is fully quoted in the current, July 2020 issue. Rossiniano's review of the Divina edition of _Poliuto_ is also fully quoted in the July 2020 issue. The point is, anyone who posts something substantial, insightful, meaningful and informative here about Callas stands a good chance to be quoted in the _Maria Callas Magazine_.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I had absolutely no idea and am somewhat bemused that my witterings could have been seen as worthy enough to be quoted.

N.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

The Conte said:


> I had absolutely no idea and am somewhat bemused that my witterings could have been seen as worthy enough to be quoted.
> 
> N.


Since this site is a public forum with its content available and visible to all, hope you (and other members) are ok with your posts being selected and quoted in the Magazine. RES' (Dr Seletsky) posts on this site of course have been substantially quoted. Yet there was a time many years ago when the MCIC lifted RES' entire _The Opera Quarterly_ article (published by Oxford University Press) to reproduce in one of its Magazine issues (without RES' and OUP's prior knowledge, and the necessary written permission from the copyright owners). As the article was copyrighted and access to the journal requires either institutional membership or individual payment, the lifting gave rise to serious legal issues.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Augastine said:


> Since this site is a public forum with its content available and visible to all, hope you (and other members) are ok with your posts being selected and quoted in the Magazine. RES' (Dr Seletsky) posts on this site of course have been substantially quoted. Yet there was a time many years ago when the MCIC lifted RES' entire _The Opera Quarterly_ article (published by Oxford University Press) to reproduce in one of its Magazine issues (without RES' and OUP's prior knowledge, and the necessary written permission from the copyright owners). As the article was copyrighted and access to the journal requires either institutional membership or individual payment, the lifting gave rise to serious legal issues.


It seems I've been heavily quoted too (on page 55).


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It seems I've been heavily quoted too (on page 55).


(Rather, on p. 56) Yes, that's your very insightful discussion on the relative merits of the 1958 Covent Garden _Traviata_ compared to Callas' all other recorded _Traviata_s in the "Discussion on 2020 TalkClassical Recommended Opera CDs and DVDs" thread. President Karl certainly thought that's worthwhile for inclusion in the Magazine.

Meanwhile, on the Opera-L forum, some prefer the 1955 Scala _Traviata_, while some the 1958 Covent Garden one. One of those who has expressed preference for the 1955 Scala one complained about the slightly sharp pitch of the 1958 CG one as heard on Melodram and other independent labels from the past. When it was pointed out to him by one member that AV has the corrected pitch version, he just didn't bother to get it and still sticks with the 1955 one. He probably feels too lazy to email AV and go through all the troubles of ordering and paying online.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Augastine said:


> (Rather, on p. 56) Yes, that's your very insightful discussion on the relative merits of the 1958 Covent Garden _Traviata_ compared to Callas' all other recorded _Traviata_s in the "Discussion on 2020 TalkClassical Recommended Opera CDs and DVDs" thread. President Karl certainly thought that's worthwhile for inclusion in the Magazine.
> 
> Meanwhile, on the Opera-L forum, some prefer the 1955 Scala _Traviata_, while some the 1958 Covent Garden one. One of those who has expressed preference for the 1955 Scala one complained about the slightly sharp pitch of the 1958 CG one as heard on Melodram and other independent labels from the past. When it was pointed out to him by one member that AV has the corrected pitch version, he just didn't bother to get it and still sticks with the 1955 one. He probably feels too lazy to email AV and go through all the troubles of ordering and paying online.


Is Oper-L forum the same as Opera Lively?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

No. Opera-L is an excellent and very much up-to-date opera forum where it isn't uncommon to engage in a food fight.
There is a lot of passion with some extremely erudite posters.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Is Oper-L forum the same as Opera Lively?


Opera-L has been around til now for 30 years since its inception in 1990. It was originally hosted by BCCL Listserv (from 1995 to 2019) and all conversations on it had been visible to the public. In early 2019, BCCL Listserv became defunct, so the forum had to migrate to Google Groups and since then access to the forum requires logging in to Google account and having membership application approved by the forum owner. For many years it has been one of the premiere internet forums focusing on Opera and at one time AV and a number of really erudite and knowledgeable opera aficionados had posted on the forum. There are still some highly informative and interesting discussions there nowadays on Callas and other great singers and at least a couple of regulars there had had the longevity and privilege of personally seeing Callas performing on stage, with one of them managing as far back as 65 years ago to see Callas as Elvira in _ I Puritani_ that opened the 1955-56 season at the Lyric Opera in Chicago on 31 Oct 1955, while the other saw her as Tosca at the New York Met in March 1965.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Although it attracts all types of posters, it tends to be Met oriented (like I find this forum to be more British and Wagner oriented.)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> No. Opera-L is an excellent and very much up-to-date opera forum where it isn't uncommon to engage in a food fight.
> There is a lot of passion with some extremely erudite posters.


Ah I remember now. I was briefly a member, but left because some of the posters were just a bit too vitriolic, and it was filled with posts that ran something like this, "How dare you even imply singer A is good as (insert character here)? Singe B owns this rule." and so on in a similar vein. I think I only lasted a week.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

It's true that Opera-L not for the faint of heart. There are several elderly, opinionated posters, but I will say that a majority of members are not only very knowledgeable in the art but interesting and warm personalities as well.
I'd call it more of a dysfunctional but lovable family.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Post deleted post deleted


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Ah I remember now. I was briefly a member, but left because some of the posters were just a bit too vitriolic, and it was filled with posts that ran something like this, "How dare you even imply singer A is good as (insert character here)? Singe B owns this rule." and so on in a similar vein. I think I only lasted a week.


I can't imagine getting on well there considering some of my controversial opinions about underrated recordings (Sutherland second Norma, Abbado Lohengrin or Ivanov Eugene Onegin).

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The Conte:
You are too sharp to make a statement like that without even trying it to find out that you stepped into something really challenging and uplifting with some very nice people who have the same thoughts that you do and share the same passion of opera as you.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

If one reads the Opera-L conversations quoted in the _Maria Callas Magazine_, they appear normal and rational. This is because the Editor has taken great care to cut out completely all the vitriolic tit-and-tat parts. What remains are the informative and insightful parts. This applies also to the TalkClassical conversations quoted in the Magazine.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

"Normal and rational"? Hahahaha! I think Editors want to attract readers, not shoo them away, so naturally they are going to show their magazine in the most positive light.
Practically all forums of any sort from music, theater, movies, travel, art etc. have their distractors.
Even this forum has an on-going food fight between 2 particular posters, but I seriously doubt that it would be quoted in the Maria Callas Magazine.
How dull it would be if everyone felt the same way about everything. Controversy is the life blood of a forum. 
The truth is that Opera-L is a very popular, well read website that attracts all kinds of posters. Many discussions are almost like taking a class in opera. 
Occasionally some hubristic egotists rear their ugly heads, but they are soon found out and, if not indulged, eventually go away. 
I have learned more from that forum than any other except for the now defunct New York Times Opera Forum of years ago.
If you are a serious opera lover, i should think that you would really want to sample a place that engages in your magnificent obsession -- both the good and the bad.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> If one reads the Opera-L conversations quoted in the _Maria Callas Magazine_, they appear normal and rational. This is because the Editor has taken great care to cut out completely all the vitriolic tit-and-tat parts. What remains are the informative and insightful parts. This applies also to the TalkClassical conversations quoted in the Magazine.


I was going to say that if you can have *normal* and *rational* discussions about opera, you're not _really_ getting it. Opera is about violent emotions be it *love*, *lust*, *vengeance*, *blood*, *war*, *jealousy*, *madness*, *death*. Did I forget anything? Think about those words in Italian or French, or German.

Opera is an *expressive* art, and the singers who are most successful are those who can express those emotions and *touch your heart* or even *your solar plexus*. Think about your *Kunst* diva.

Discuss...:lol:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Well, I decided to join the *Maria Callas International Club* mostly because I wanted the book. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's how I learn, and I hope the book has enough substance for that. It is the last of only 50 copies.









Coming up is the book about *Callas's * seasons in *Chicago*, which I hope will publish many many pictures of her in those seasons, which included Callas in *Norma*, *La Traviata*, *Il Trovatore*, *I Puritani*, *Madama Butterfly*, along with other artists like *Tito Gobbi*, *Jussi Björling*, *Leopold Simoneau*, *Renata Tebaldi*, *Giulietta Simionato*, *Nicola Rossi-Lemeni*, etc.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> "Normal and rational"? Hahahaha! I think Editors want to attract readers, not shoo them away, so naturally they are going to show their magazine in the most positive light.
> Practically all forums of any sort from music, theater, movies, travel, art etc. have their distractors.
> Even this forum has an on-going food fight between 2 particular posters, but I seriously doubt that it would be quoted in the Maria Callas Magazine.
> How dull it would be if everyone felt the same way about everything. Controversy is the life blood of a forum.
> ...


The other day, they were hoping the Met would open with *Les Huguenots*, with *Oropesa*, *Netrebko*, *Di Donato*, *Tezier* and a few others. Denigrating *Corelli* for _bleating_, and praising *Richard Leech's* version with *Françoise Pollet* as being superior _in singing terms_ to the La Scala *Gli Ugonotti* with *Corelli*, *Simionato*, *Sutherland*, sung in the vernacular, of course.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

The nature and purpose of a public discussion forum versus a printed journal are completely different. Forums are all for free exchange of opinions and various kinds of emotions can flare up, especially if the topic gives rise to lively and heated exchanges of words. Whereas the printed journal is meant to present topics as clearly, logically, coherently and comprehensibly as possible or keep a permanent record of a discussion that had taken place and by necessity has to appear 'normal' and 'rational'. Thus when forum discussions are to be re-presented in the printed journal, they have to undergo a meticulous editing process, and inevitably, some of the original spice and flavour of the forum discussions would be lost.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

This is the preliminary cover design of the planned Club publication *Maria Callas in Chicago, 1954-1974*. The actual cover upon publication may be different.

Apart from her *operatic performances in 1954 and 1955*, the book will also cover, with photos and scans of newspaper and magazine articles cuttings, the *Concerts for Allied Française in Jan 1957 and Jan 1958*, the *Chicago stop of the farewell concert tour with Di Stefano in March 1974* and her participation in the *Verdi Congress in September 1974*.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> This is the preliminary cover design of the planned Club publication *Maria Callas in Chicago, 1954-1974*. The actual cover upon publication may be different.
> 
> Apart from her *operatic performances in 1954 and 1955*, the book will also cover, with photos and scans of newspaper and magazine articles cuttings, the *Concerts for Allied Française in Jan 1957 and Jan 1958*, the *Chicago stop of the farewell concert tour with Di Stefano in March 1974* and her participation in the *Verdi Congress in September 1974*.


Thanks for that!


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

MAS said:


> Well, I decided to join the *Maria Callas International Club* mostly because I wanted the book. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's how I learn, and I hope the book has enough substance for that. It is the last of only 50 copies.
> 
> View attachment 142152


This book is actually a gathering of all the essays on all of Callas' operatic roles (including those that she sang only in the recording studio) that Peter Mul had contributed to the _Maria Callas Magazine_ from issue 50 (March 2007) until issue 87 (July 2019). Scanned samples of the essays on _Anna Bolena_, _Un ballo in maschera_ and _La Sonnambula_ can be accessed here on the Club website:

http://www.callasintclub.com/artikelen.htm

The essays as they appeared originally in the Magazine backissues actually contain more accompanying photos than the book, so you might wish to consider purchasing the relevant back issues of the Magazine.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> This book is actually a gathering of all the essays on all of Callas' operatic roles (including those that she sang only in the recording studio) that Peter Mul had contributed to the _Maria Callas Magazine_ from issue 50 (March 2007) until issue 87 (July 2019). Scanned samples of the essays on _Anna Bolena_, _Un ballo in maschera_ and _La Sonnambula_ can be accessed here on the Club website:
> 
> http://www.callasintclub.com/artikelen.htm
> 
> The essays as they appeared originally in the Magazine backissues actually contain more accompanying photos than the book, so you might wish to consider purchasing the relevant back issues of the Magazine.


Thanks, Augastine. Do you know why they only printed 50 copies?


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

MAS said:


> Thanks, Augastine. Do you know why they only printed 50 copies?


This is a question that only Karl can answer. You might wish to raise it to him when you are in touch with him.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> The nature and purpose of a public discussion forum versus a printed journal are completely different. Forums are all for free exchange of opinions and various kinds of emotions can flare up, especially if the topic gives rise to lively and heated exchanges of words. Whereas the printed journal is meant to present topics as clearly, logically, coherently and comprehensibly as possible or keep a permanent record of a discussion that had taken place and by necessity has to appear 'normal' and 'rational'. Thus when forum discussions are to be re-presented in the printed journal, they have to undergo a meticulous editing process, and inevitably, some of the original spice and flavour of the forum discussions would be lost.


Yes, editing out the *passion* and other *irrational* discussion, of course! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Received today from the Maria Callas International Club: the book with essays on all of Callas's roles

























Maria Callas International Club Magazine, the _raison d'être_ of the Club









The French magazine is a _bonus_, along with several large photographs, postcards and the article by John Steane that appears in the book *Singers Of The Century*.


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## Andante Cantabile (Feb 26, 2020)

MAS said:


> Received today from the Maria Callas International Club: the book with essays on all of Callas's roles.


Glad you've received your copies of the magazines and the Operatic Roles book. The two 2020 issues published so far have plenty of interesting and informative content for you to enjoy and savour.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Augastine said:


> Glad you've received your copies of the magazines and the Operatic Roles book. The two 2020 issues published so far have plenty of interesting and informative content for you to enjoy and savour.


Thanks, Augustine, I did indeed enjoy them. I was particularly curious about the *Opera-L* and *Talk Classical* posts reproduced in the Magazine. They come off very well.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Are there any current members of the Maria Callas International Club?
> 
> I was doing my usual late night shopping and espied their website. Anyone have any comments on the Club and its benefits, pros and cons?
> 
> ...


I wish she had been a big beautiful woman a while longer. Don't hate me for saying that. It would probably have prolonged her career. Gorgeous photo.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish she had been a big beautiful woman a while longer. Don't hate me for saying that. It would probably have prolonged her career. Gorgeous photo.


You're not the first to wish Callas had never lost the weight, or at least had stopped the dieting a lot sooner, so she'd retain the strength in the diaphragm to support the big voice.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> You're not the first to wish Callas had never lost the weight, or at least had stopped the dieting a lot sooner, so she'd retain the strength in the diaphragm to support the big voice.


If she'd have stopped round about the time she did the first Lucias with Karajan at La Scala (early 1954), she'd probably have been fine, but once she started to lose the weight, and started to enjoy how she looked in stylish clothes she became determined to look like the (naturally) thin Audrey Hepburn. No doubt she went too far, but it also changed her as an artist. 1955 was her _annus mirabilis_, when she was thin, but also gave some of the greatest performances of her career.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If she'd have stopped round about the time she did the first Lucias with Karajan at La Scala (early 1954), she'd probably have been fine, but once she started to lose the weight, and started to enjoy how she looked in stylish clothes she became determined to look like the (naturally) thin Audrey Hepburn. No doubt she went too far, but it also changed her as an artist. 1955 was her _annus mirabilis_, when she was thin, but also gave some of the greatest performances of her career.


Agreed, the performances were transcendental, but the magnificent voice was much diminished.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If she'd have stopped round about the time she did the first Lucias with Karajan at La Scala (early 1954), she'd probably have been fine, but once she started to lose the weight, and started to enjoy how she looked in stylish clothes she became determined to look like the (naturally) thin Audrey Hepburn. No doubt she went too far, but it also changed her as an artist. 1955 was her _annus mirabilis_, when she was thin, but also gave some of the greatest performances of her career.


I was truly skeptical about this till I listened. She was really wonderful in 55!


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