# Schubert and Rodrigo



## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

You with the more discerning hearing will probably tell me I am very wrong but I'd be interested in hearing if I am. When we get about five to six minutes into Schubert's 'Der Tod Und Das Madchen' - 2nd movement - there is a repeated phrase that so very much sounds like (or reminds me of anyway) a part in Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. 

It was hearing this in Schubert's work that sent me pulling out Rodrigo's. I have played each twice and I keep hearing a very close similarity. Is it my imagination? If not, what is it about the two that pulls them together?

Hazel


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Could you find a YouTube video and give a time reference? "five to six minutes" is far too vague a reference because of how various recordings differ so much, so I can't figure out which phrase you're referring to.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Could you find a YouTube video and give a time reference? "five to six minutes" is far too vague a reference because of how various recordings differ so much, so I can't figure out which phrase you're referring to.


Now that you mention it, I do notice that time references do not always work. I don't know what luck I'd have on YouTube. I was going by my CD. I'll see if I can find anything.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I'll check it out later and post back here, as I don't have much time right now... But I do know you'll find a big influence for Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez in the Adagio movement from Bach's BWV564 -Toccata, Adagio and Fugue. You can definitely hear some similarities between that and the famous Adagio mvt. from Rodrigo's work.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

tdc said:


> I'll check it out later and post back here, as I don't have much time right now... But I do know you'll find a big influence for Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez in the Adagio movement from Bach's BWV564 -Toccata, Adagio and Fugue. You can definitely hear some similarities between that and the famous Adagio mvt. from Rodrigo's work.


Thank you. I don't see 564 here but do have 565 which, while being another Toccata and Fugue, is likely different. I'll do some listenting.

Ah yes. I do have his 564. Great Organ Works with David Goode at that organ in the Frieberg Cathedral. Thanks again.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Polednice said:


> Could you find a YouTube video and give a time reference? "five to six minutes" is far too vague a reference because of how various recordings differ so much, so I can't figure out which phrase you're referring to.


This is the best I could find. It sounds different from my CD. A different arrangement, perhaps? Or maybe that my CD is guitar? I think I am picking up that particular part that I spoke about at around eight and nine minutes. There is a bit of it at around 4:30 minutes. It's quite a lively part which alternates with very quiet, thoughtful waiting. It isn't going to support my contention of what I hear on the CD. They are quite different.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

Hazel said:


> This is the best I could find. It sounds different from my CD. A different arrangement, perhaps? Or maybe that my CD is guitar? I think I am picking up that particular part that I spoke about at around eight and nine minutes. There is a bit of it at around 4:30 minutes. It's quite a lively part which alternates with very quiet, thoughtful waiting. It isn't going to support my contention of what I hear on the CD. They are quite different.


You have posted the first movement, whereas you were previously talking about the second movement.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Artemis said:


> You have posted the first movement, whereas you were previously talking about the second movement.


That explains that. I wondered why it sounded so different but I am not so well-versed in the piece. In fact, yesterday is the first I'd ever heard of it. I'll try again.

Ah! This is better.






The part I was talking about starts at about 5:42 but it is building up before that. Somehow it just reminds me of Rodrigo's Concerto.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm fairly familiar with the concerto, but I can't hear the similarity - sorry. :/


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I can't hear too many similarities either, some vague modal similarities at the start of the piece perhaps, and rhythmic similarities at the point you mentioned, but again it doesn't seem overly close to my ears... however listen to the first minute or so of both of these pieces and see what you think:


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I'm fairly familiar with the concerto, but I can't hear the similarity - sorry. :/


That's all right. It is probably my imagination. I just wondered about that. I think its the liveliness of it. I don't think Schubert's is supposed to be a joyful celebration but it does get "happy" there. Or maybe "anger" over a death.


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

tdc said:


> I can't hear too many similarities either, some vague modal similarities at the start of the piece perhaps, and rhythmic similarities at the point you mentioned, but again it doesn't seem overy close to my ears... however listen to the first minute or so of both of these pieces and see what you think:


Yes, that really is similar. You are right that a lot of what I was noticing was the rhythm but it did send me back to Rodrigo.

Now I have my eye on that beautiful design. I don't know where it came from but a want a nice copy to hang on my wall!

Time to shut down here but thank you for that.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hazel said:


> The part I was talking about starts at about 5:42 but it is building up before that. Somehow it just reminds me of Rodrigo's Concerto.


Well, the way you put it, it does sound quite a bit similar to Spanish music, a somewhat "Spanish feel" in terms of esp. rhythm. But that's the strongest connection with the Rodrigo that I could muster...


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## Hazel (Oct 23, 2010)

Sid James said:


> Well, the way you put it, it does sound quite a bit similar to Spanish music, a somewhat "Spanish feel" in terms of esp. rhythm. But that's the strongest connection with the Rodrigo that I could muster...


Thank you. It's good to know I am not completely off-base. Rodrigo is still a favourite around here.


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