# Is there a Schubert melody hidden here?



## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

I love Franz Schubert and I also love the German electronic music pioneers Kraftwerk. Apparently they too love Franz Schubert since they made a song called "Franz Schubert":




spotify:track:4aJulXrGlrQFi2cHLc6kSd

However I've failed to recognize any of the musical fragments in the song as quotes from Schubert. Does anybody else recognize anything in this tranquil four minute miniature? Especially, there's a stringlike melody kicking in after 30 seconds that could be from Schubert but I don't recognize it.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I don't know, but you might find John Harbison's Piano Quartet "November 19, 1828" interesting -- which depicts Schubert's death in a haunting dreamlike mixture of Schubertian fragments.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Can't listen to anything there until I have registered. I'm too lazy for that.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Like brianvds, only not lazy, just not another registration.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)




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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

What a fascinating post and thread.

I don't think there are any direct Schubert quotes here - the harmony is too unvarying for that. What I reckon Kraftwerk were going for is a reflection of a specific type of mood which Schubert creates quite often, especially in his _Lieder_ (songs). It's often associated with images of running water, and the music very much reflects that. Here's one example which came to mind very quickly once I began to listen to Kraftwerk's track, the opening song "Liebesbotschaft" ("Love's message") from the collection of _Lieder_ entitled "Schwanengesang" ("Swansong"):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vap2ybbnjUw


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Animal the Drummer said:


> What a fascinating post and thread.
> 
> I don't think there are any direct Schubert quotes here - the harmony is too unvarying for that. What I reckon Kraftwerk were going for is a reflection of a specific type of mood which Schubert creates quite often, especially in his _Lieder_ (songs). It's often associated with images of running water, and the music very much reflects that. Here's one example which came to mind very quickly once I began to listen to Kraftwerk's track, the opening song "Liebesbotschaft" ("Love's message") from the collection of _Lieder_ entitled "Schwanengesang" ("Swansong"):
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vap2ybbnjUw


Oh, yes I see what you mean with your example.
Yes the harmony is nothing like Vienna Classicism (is that the right word) I was mainly thinking about the little melodic fragment. That definitely has a bit of Schubert character.

And @Art Rock of course using Youtube for listening examples is much better than my Spotify links. That was a bad idea. Thanks for that.


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

This is the melodic fragment I was thinking of.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

You know, you could be on to something after all. That excerpt reminds me of the tune from the opening _Lied_, "Das Wandern" (or "Wandering") of Schubert's song cycle "Die Schone Müllerin", or "The Beautiful Miller-Girl" (where once again there's "running water" in the background):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVdPipnqsIU

Incidentally, years ago I worked up a "party piece" in which I played the piano part of this song and sang it in my best Donald Duck voice. Does that make me a very bad person?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Oortone said:


> This is the melodic fragment I was thinking of.
> 
> View attachment 98509


That looks nothing like a Schubert melody.


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> That looks nothing like a Schubert melody.


What about...?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Computerwelt (1981) is a rather prophesying song especially in the German lyrics.
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/k/kraftwerk/computerwelt.html


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Oortone said:


> What about...?
> View attachment 98524


Could be a fragment from some piece by Schubert, or almost anyone.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

No idea but it’s marvellous! Now on order. Thank you


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## Ras (Oct 6, 2017)

Oortone said:


> Does anybody else recognize anything in this tranquil four minute miniature? Especially, there's a stringlike melody kicking in after 30 seconds that could be from Schubert but I don't recognize it.


I can't identify the theme and I can't find anything about it on the internet. But these book excerpts are interesting:

https://goo.gl/9t3K4m

and: https://goo.gl/C6PgXN


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Could be a fragment from some piece by Schubert, or almost anyone.


Which tells us that if one can't recognice a melody just by looking at it, it's a bit silly to say "That looks nothing like a Schubert melody".

The second quote was namely an actual Schubert melody, it was a trick question to see how good you where at identifying the style of a composer just by looking at the melody in notation. In my opinion the first quote, from Kraftwerk, is quite in the same style (although in a major key) so I could not rule it out as NOT being a Schubert melody since he has written so much music.


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Ras said:


> I can't identify the theme and I can't find anything about it on the internet. But these book excerpts are interesting:
> 
> https://goo.gl/9t3K4m
> 
> and: https://goo.gl/C6PgXN


Very interesting. Although I was already familiar with the similarity between "Franz Schubert" and "Europe Endless" I've never really thought about it that way.

The similarity between Schumann and "Autobahn" was unknown to me. I wonder if it is the C'-F-G-C (key are varying in "Autobahn") they mean? Kraftwerk's main composer Ralf Hütter comes from an upper middle class family in Germany so he probably heard a lot of classical music when he grew up.


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## Oortone (Mar 27, 2013)

Oortone said:


> Very interesting. Although I was already familiar with the similarity between "Franz Schubert" and "Europe Endless" I've never really thought about it that way.
> 
> The similarity between Schumann and "Autobahn" was unknown to me. I wonder if it is the C'-F-G-C (key are varying in "Autobahn") they mean? Kraftwerk's main composer Ralf Hütter comes from an upper middle class family in Germany so he probably heard a lot of classical music when he grew up.


Now I've listened to the finale of Schumann's op 26 and it's complete nonsense that there's an actual similarity. There might be a similar chord progression but they are such common chord structures that it's completely meaningless to point at this work by a classical composer and say that Kraftwerk was inspired by this particuilar piece. Unless they've said that themselves which the writer of the book does not say.


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