# Alfred Schnittke



## messiaenfanatic

Schnittke, is truly a unique composer. All of a sudden a jazz pianist interrupts the orchestra and starts playing. I was like, how cool is that. His music is serious and ironic at the same time. I have listened to every symphony of his except No. 3. That is definitely on my wishlist of works to listen to by Schnittke. I have really enjoyed all of his symphonies. His odd-numbered symphonies are in the polystylistic style for the most part and his even numbered symphonies are on the spiritual/religious side. Like symphony No. 2 is a homage to Anton Bruckner. His Cello Concerto No. 2 is just so tragic and moody, definitely one of my favorite concertos for cello composed in the 20th century, that is no. 2. Does anyone else enjoy listening to Alfred Schnittke's works, if so which ones? I have heard his chamber works are extraodinary! I could use some more recommendations on what other works of Schnittke's I should try out.


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## Guest

How about "all of them"? But truly, he wrote some duds; who hasn't? But if you already like the symphonies, then why not just buy some chamber stuff. Anything really. I don't particularly like symphony no. 2, for instance, but I don't regret buying it. And who knows? You made me want to haul it out and give it another spin.

(My favorites of the non-symphonies: _Concerto Grosso no. 1._ One of the more engaging openings out there. For prepared piano. (The opening. There are other instruments. Hence the "Grosso," eh?) _Sonata No. 2 (Quasi una Sonata)_ for violin and piano. Non-stop virtuosity.)


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## Guest

And how could I have forgotten "The Inspector's Tale"? Far as I know, there's only the one recording of this. But it's worth tracking down. It has Denisov and Gubaidulina on it, too. It's a Μелодия disc (MLD-32113), distributed by MCA. 

On a recently acquired "Musik in Deutschland" CD, there's a Schnittke piece for four metronomes, three percussionists, and piano. Another quirky, funny piece by our Alfred.

(That's SONY/BMG LC 00316. It has Morton Feldman's "Half a minute is all I've time for," which takes them fifty-nine seconds to get through. The slow version, I guess. And a bunch of other tasty stuff.)


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## messiaenfanatic

I will check out his chamber works out. I will probably try listening to his string quartets, violin sonatas, cello sonatas, etc. Are there any recordings of his operas out there? I have his Faust cantata, but I want to hear the full-length version.


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## Guest

I had the Faust opera, briefly. It didn't seem to add anything to the cantata, really, and some things were changed in a bad way. Sorry I can't be more specific. I got rid of my copy years ago.

I still have "Life with an Idiot," though, which is NOT an opera about me, I don't care what my ex-wife tells you!

But I haven't listened to that recently enough to say anything useful about it.

Basically, this response is useless. I don't know why I'm still typ


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## tahnak

*Schnittke*



messiaenfanatic said:


> Schnittke, is truly a unique composer. All of a sudden a jazz pianist interrupts the orchestra and starts playing. I was like, how cool is that. His music is serious and ironic at the same time. I have listened to every symphony of his except No. 3. That is definitely on my wishlist of works to listen to by Schnittke. I have really enjoyed all of his symphonies. His odd-numbered symphonies are in the polystylistic style for the most part and his even numbered symphonies are on the spiritual/religious side. Like symphony No. 2 is a homage to Anton Bruckner. His Cello Concerto No. 2 is just so tragic and moody, definitely one of my favorite concertos for cello composed in the 20th century, that is no. 2. Does anyone else enjoy listening to Alfred Schnittke's works, if so which ones? I have heard his chamber works are extraodinary! I could use some more recommendations on what other works of Schnittke's I should try out.


I consider Alfred Schnittke as one of the great living composers after the vacuum created by Shostakovich's death in 1975.I will listen to his second symphony and his second cello concerto as soon as I get a chance. I have heard and appreciated his Viola Concerto written in 1985 played by Isabelle Van Keulen with Heinrich Schiff conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. Another work I have heard recently is the Concerto Grosso No. 1 for Two Violins, Piano/Harpsichord and Strings written in 1977 and played by Gidon Kremer(Violin), Tatiana Grindenko (Violin), Yuri Smirnov ( Harpsichord) with Heinrich Schiff conducting the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.


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## Sid James

I recently bought a Naxos Cd of *Schnittke's chamber music*, played by the AFCM Ensemble & recorded here in Australia. The CD includes his _Piano Quintet, String Trio _& some shorter works.

The _*Piano Quintet *_is a very interesting piece. He wrote it in 1976, not long after the death of his mother & Shostakovich. He had also just had a stroke, so he couldn't play piano as well as before. So the piano part is not virtuostic, it's more meandering. This work has much to offer for the astute listener, it is very rewarding. In the first movement, the piano plays a single chord for about 1-2 minutes while the other instruments accompany with a melody. It's very hypnotic & disturbing at the same time. The next movement starts with a light waltz, and this melody permeates the rest of the work. He kind of pulls the waltz apart. It becomes like a delicate ornament that has shattered in pieces, like snippets of memory, dedicated to those two people. The work ends with the piano playing a fragile melody solo & it hauntingly fades away.

The _*String Trio*_ is also an interesting work, composed later & dedicated to the city of Vienna, where he spent his student days.

These works seem to be about memory, it's maintenance, disintegration & transformation into something new. They didn't grab me at first, unlike Messiaen's, Janacek's or Shostakovich's chamber works. It takes a few listens for the music to make an impact. But I think they are great, nonetheless.

I wonder if he wrote any film music, as this music seems very filmic to me...


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## Lisztfreak

I heard his Violin Sonata No.1 at a concert once, and I found it beautiful. So many hidden melodies in the slow movement. The Canon in memoriam Igor Stravinsky is weird, but not bad.


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## bdelykleon

I like Schnittke very much, in 2004 I was to see one of this Operas (Gesualdo) in the Wiener Staatsoper conducted by the late Rostropovich, but I had to postpone the trip for a few weeks and missed it, did anyone see this opera?


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## Sid James

I just heard a BBC Proms broadcast of the UK premiere of Schnittke's _*Nagasaki Oratorio*_. It was his graduation piece, written in the late 1950's. Shades of Shostakovich as well as oriental melodies. Overall, it is quite listenable, but there is a devastating atonal part which depicts the atom bomb hitting the city. It was an interesting work, but not as engaging for me as what I've heard of the mature Schnittke.

By the way, since my last post about the _Piano Quintet_, I've realised that in the last movement he quotes Beethoven's _Pastoral_ symphony. It just hit me once when I was listening to it months back. It's a mystery to me why he quoted this, but in any case, it makes the work more interesting. I suppose it's somehow connected to the overall theme of rememberance/memory...


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## nickgray

Yeah, Schnittke is amazing, I love his late works. What I particularly like about him is that he got over the experiments and simply started to write music that suited him, which is, errrr... well, awesome?


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## MrTortoise

Been a while since I went through a Schnittke phase, but a live performance of the Piano Quintet was one of the most moving experiences of my life. By all means, get a recording of this work, it is one of the giants of 20th century chamber music. I read through the cello sonata with a friend a couple of times. His small chamber works, duos, etc... can be quite fun and playful.

I'll have to program some Schnittke into my playlist over the next couple of days!


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## danae

tahnak said:


> I consider Alfred Schnittke as one of the great living composers


 who happens to be very much dead as we speak,


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## Sid James

I've just acquired a Naxos cd of Schnittke's works featuring the cello. The _*Cello Concerto No. 1 *_was written in the mid-1980's after the composer came out of a coma following a stroke. It's easy to be psychobiographical about the contents of this work, but for me it represents a mental journey of ideas, memories and images. Like Janacek and Varese, Schnittke gives us blocks of ideas which sometimes seem random and unconnected. Indeed, this work is probably not notable for it's thematic development, Schnittke hardly looks back. But who could resist the amazing climax, which for me conjures up images of a vast mountainous landscape, similar to Hovhaness. This is not an easy work to listen to but it rewards the listener who is willing to invest effort and attention to understanding it.

The other two works on the cd are _*Stille music for violin & cello *_and the _*Cello Sonata*_, both from the late 1970's. The former has a sense of stillness and suspended animation about it, hence the title. The latter bears influence of the spikiness of Prokofiev in the middle quick movement, combined with much introspection (& angst?) in the outer slow movements.


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## Sid James

I've just borrowed a recording of Schnittke's _*Concerto Grosso*_ from the library, played by Gidon Kremer. It's a very intense half hour or so, with music that ranges from anguish and despair in the slow movement, to a cadenza whose difficult, stunted & jagged expression reminds me of Lutoslawski's _Cello Concerto_, and parts that sound like Vivaldi or Corelli on high-octane fuel. What I like about this music is that, depsite the conservative title, you get music that really challenges your perceptions about what is music and what is art. I think that Schnittke is one of the few modern composers whose music is quite complex, and new layers are revealed the further you dig, there's so much going on beneath the surface, it is amazing...


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## MessiaenIsGod

Schnittke kicks butt! All the melange of different styles, the weird inclusion of the harpsichord into very modern music, the constant contrasts and shifts of mood, I just dig it.

The first movement of his Concerto Grosso No. 4 always makes me turn the volume up, crack that whip, Schnittke!


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## robert

some favorites
Symphonies 4 6 7 8 
Viola Concerto
Trio
Requiem
Cello Conc 1 2
Conc Grosso 1 2
String Quartets 2 3 4 
Piano Quintet
Quasi Una Sonata
Violin Conc 3 4

Robert


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## Aramis

Me slowly digs him. Symphony No. 3 was the recent break, John is very crazy, yes, very crazy, very crazy man. String Quartets are quite tasty, Cello Sonata, uhm, a little bit boring, but that's kewl, every composer have weak works. And the piano concerto. So accessible. 

Actually I'm ready to kill for his piano sonatas which I can't find anywhere - not in web, not in the shops. There are some on YouTube but in bad quality. I'm getting mad. GIVE ME TEH PIANO SONATAZ


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## Head_case

> I consider Alfred Schnittke as one of the great living composers after the vacuum created by Shostakovich's death in 1975.I will listen to his second symphony and his second cello concerto as soon as I get a chance. I have heard and appreciated his Viola Concerto written in 1985 played by Isabelle Van Keulen with Heinrich Schiff conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. Another work I have heard recently is the Concerto Grosso No. 1 for Two Violins, Piano/Harpsichord and Strings written in 1977 and played by Gidon Kremer(Violin), Tatiana Grindenko (Violin), Yuri Smirnov ( Harpsichord) with Heinrich Schiff conducting the Chamber Orchestra of Europe.


It's the harpsichord works and then string quartets for me (you know how I feel about piano sonatas - they are more than welcome to play a game of 'hide and seek' ... and remain hidden  )

I have the Borodin Quartet and the Kronos Quartet versions for the past 15 years - there isn't much in it between them and I would be happy with either/or version. Not sure why I don't listen to them much - they are very well written, although I find myself drifting more towards the modern Soviet composer - Veniamin (Benjamin) Basner.

She's got a copy in her hand. Have you?


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## Noak

Fantastic composer! His Symphony No.3 is a true masterpiece.


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## SuperTonic

I've recently discovered his Hymns, a collection of 4 pieces featuring cello and various combinations of other instruments (harpsichord, bassoon, double bass, timpani, and chimes, I may have left something out). Here is the second Hymn for cello and bass (not my favorite one, but its the only one I could find on YouTube).
Schittke - Hymn No. 2


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## elgar's ghost

I haven't got much but like what I've heard - I'm a big fan of musical tension bordering on dark neurosis and Schnittke seemed good at that. The Piano Quintet is quite unsettling and I like the piano crashing wildly against the melody in his Concerto for Piano & Strings. I've also got a recording of the Viola Concerto and Cello Concerto no. 2 - great stuff. The symphonies and quartets are where I really want to go next but I might buy a disc of vocal/choral work first just to get a different insight.


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## tahnak

elgars ghost said:


> . I've also got a recording of the Viola Concerto and Cello Concerto no. 2 - great stuff. The symphonies and quartets are where I really want to go next but I might buy a disc of vocal/choral work first just to get a different insight.


Yes I have heard his viola concerto and I was impressed by it. Haven't heard his symphonies yet.


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## myaskovsky2002

I like very much Schnittke...What to listen...I think I've listened to everything..the choral symphony is terrific...Is it the second? I don't remember.

Martin, mixed-up.
http://pages.videotron.com/svp/

You will see my collection


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## emiellucifuge

Ive only listened to the requiem which i fantastic but it hasnt yet been mentioned????


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## myaskovsky2002

The requiem is beautiful indeed. He also have a ballet..not bad, not the end of the world either...

Martin


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## starthrower

I just found the CD that Sid James mentioned at my library. I've never heard of Schnittke. Somebody mentioned his complete symphonies set at another forum a few days ago. None available at my library, so I'll start with the Kremer disc.


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## violadude

Alfred Schnittke-

Pieces I have by Schnittke

3 Sacred Hymns
Concerto Grosso #6
Symphonies 0-9 (all of them)
String quartet's 1-4 (all of them)
Collected songs where every verse is filled with grief (arranged by the Kronos Quartet)
Canon in memoriam of Stravinsky
String trio
Concerto for 3

Man what a great composer. His way of mixing all the genre of music together in one piece was a huge inspiration to my own compositions. I just got the symphonies so I am not very familiar with a lot of them, some I know a bit from previous recordings though. I dig his early semi-serialist phase (represented in my collection by the first two string quartets). I feel really bad for the way he died, what a tragic story. I can't believe he survived all that! The "stroke" era music is very dark and gloomy indeed, some of the gloomiest music I know all around. I have to be in a certain mood to listen to one of those pieces (like the 6th) all the way though but I still love them. His symphonies 1, 3 and 5 are so wacky! I love them.


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## tdc

I am listening to the Concerto for Piano and Strings right now, and I find this work to be amazing...

Bad recording, great performance:


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## Sid James

Good to get some discussion going about *Schnittke*, he was one of the great Russian composers of the c20th.

I haven't acquired any more discs of his music since my last entries on this thread ages ago, it's simply been a matter of listening to them repeatedly to get more out of his music. Which doesn't happen that often since his music is pretty angsty and dark.

Recently, I've really connected with his _*Sonata for cello and piano*_ (1978). HERE are my thoughts about it on the current listening thread.

I was also able to hear it in recital this week, HERE is my review of that performance. This is a rarely performed work, as someone was saying at the recital. Indeed, it isn't easy to stomach, it's kind of schizophrenic in many ways, but I think it's basically a masterpiece nonetheless (or maybe more accurately it's so good because of, not despite of, that kind of highly fragmented quality?).

I am aiming to listen to the rest of the two Naxos discs I have of his music. It is very rich and layered, with many levels of meaning and perception by each individual listener. Since I'm in this kind of vibe at the moment, I may as well take the opportunity, as I've kind of lessened my listening to atonal musics...


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## Jeremy Marchant

I enjoy Schnittke's reality-warping music as much as the others here - my favourite is perhaps _(K)ein Sommernachtstraum_ [_(Not) a midsummer night's dream_] in which an innocent little Schubertian melody is massively violated by a contemporary orchestra.

But my favourite Schnittke work is his _Choir concerto_ - a huge a capella work for chorus running nearly three quarters of an hour. The first movement, alone, at 17 minutes must be absolutely exhausting to sing. The style is completely straight - you'd never guess the composer - but it is absolutely wonderful music and shows an unimagined facet of the composer.

This performance, by the Russian State Symphonic Capella under Valery Polyansky, is pretty good


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I recently bought a CD featuring Schnittke's piano concerto four hands (1988), mainly because I wanted the other piece on the CD, which is the seldom recorded Martinu concerto for two pianos, and it appears this Schnittke concerto is also seldom recorded. Of the two, the Martinu piece is more traditional whereas the Schnittke is interesting with quite listenable web of sounds from the four hands on the piano. I must admit it was not what I expected and the overall listening outcome was decent enjoyment.


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## kv466

I was first introduced to this fine composer live by Vladimir Feltsman...wow, was I blown away and have been ever since at any recording I could get my hands on! I had never heard such sounds at this point as it was the early nineties and I had only exposed myself to very tonal stuff at the time...I still can't remember the exact piece but it was piano and strings and it had a double-bass solo smack in the middle of it! As I recall, it was a single movement. 

If anyone knows this off the top of their head I would greatly appreciate your sharing!

Strange, because I've looked for this piece for almost twenty years now and still haven't come across it...luckily, I've found many other treasures of his. I'd still like to know, though...don't wanna go without hearing it again.


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## violadude

kv466 said:


> I was first introduced to this fine composer live by Vladimir Feltsman...wow, was I blown away and have been ever since at any recording I could get my hands on! I had never heard such sounds at this point as it was the early nineties and I had only exposed myself to very tonal stuff at the time...I still can't remember the exact piece but it was piano and strings and it had a double-bass solo smack in the middle of it! As I recall, it was a single movement.
> 
> If anyone knows this off the top of their head I would greatly appreciate your sharing!
> 
> Strange, because I've looked for this piece for almost twenty years now and still haven't come across it...luckily, I've found many other treasures of his. I'd still like to know, though...don't wanna go without hearing it again.







Was it this?


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## kv466

Viola, I think you found it! I mean,...remember, I searched since about '94 which means I had no real internet and certainly no youtube...from first few notes, however, I could swear I was in a time machine...as far as the 'bass solo',...maybe since I didn't really know where to look at the time I was focusing on them and the strumming which I hadn't seen so much of in any 'classical' piece at the time...wow, man...thank you!

I am still gonna look for an outright bass section solo (which, in my mind, only lasted about ten seconds) but I'm am almost certain this is it...besides, what can I lose by searching all his CG's?

Thanks again, man...now you know why I like _your _ stuff so much


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## violadude

kv466 said:


> Viola, I think you found it! I mean,...remember, I searched since about '94 which means I had no real internet and certainly no youtube...from first few notes, however, I could swear I was in a time machine...as far as the 'bass solo',...maybe since I didn't really know where to look at the time I was focusing on them and the strumming which I hadn't seen so much of in any 'classical' piece at the time...wow, man...thank you!
> 
> I am still gonna look for an outright bass section solo (which, in my mind, only lasted about ten seconds) but I'm am almost certain this is it...besides, what can I lose by searching all his CG's?
> 
> Thanks again, man...now you know why I like _your _ stuff so much


Awesome! I didn't think that would actually work lol, but glad I could help!


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## starthrower

I've been trying to get into some of Schnittke's music for a month now, but was having a tough time of it. Finally late last night the Concerto Grosso No. 1 hit me like a ton of bricks! Previously I had been tuning out after the first several minutes, so I missed the part where it breaks into a beautiful melodic section. I have the Kremer DG disc on loan from the library.

I'd like to get hold of the Moscow Radio Archives CD pairing this work with the first cello concerto if I can find an affordable copy. In the meantime, I've got to get that BIS disc of the CG No.4, and Symphony No.5 back from the library and see if I can get into it this time around.


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## Igneous01

Im absolutely in love with Schnittke's music. It rubs off as being unique, innovative, and yet, modern, traditional, and stylistic on so many levels. The contrasts he does between the tonal/diatonic sections with the more dissonant, avant garde makes me enjoy those avant garde sections even more. Its as if hes highlighting those modern sections and telling the listener "This is the future of music, and this is how it is made enjoyable". 

If I were to listen to those avant garde like sections in concerto grosso 1 or 2 without the tonal bridges, they would loose their significance to me. But with those bridges intact, I just love it when the entire orchestra, at the end of the 5th movement, all hit a warped and intentially out of tune tone when the prepared piano returns. 

Schnittke knew how to surprise and add enjoyment to that part of modern music, that so many find hard to grasp.


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## starthrower

Since my last post a month ago, I've become a huge fan! I've listened to Concerto Grosso no. 1, 2, 6. The cello concertos, piano concerto, and symphonies nos. 3, 5, and 8. Next I'd like to pick up recordings of the requiem, and symphony no. 1.


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## Sid James

Just an aside that it's good to read people's thoughts on this thread. There's much more of value here in these few three pages than on the Schnittke thread of a forum I left 6 months or so back where heaps of people were bucketing him for like 20 pages. It's as if their minds could not adapt to 2011 when the guy died in 1998! Does that make sense? Sure, the popular references and collage aspect of his music can give listeners new to him a bit of a jolt, but isn't this similar to virtually any composer if you're new to their work, esp. post-1945 composers?

I remember that when I first heard Zemlinsky's _Lyric Symphony_ a couple of years ago, I thought it was colourless, too dark and kind of boring. Now, just under a year ago, I got into it and have never looked back. Zemlinsky is a composer I enjoy listening to a lot now, I do so whenever I get the chance. Same more recently with a composer I've returned to, J.S. Bach.

So not wanting to derail this thread, but I think it's relevant, what I'm saying. Schnittke did move to the beat of his own drum, so to speak, but there are elements in there of his style that are of his time and reflect what was going on in music during his time, both within Europe and beyond. I don't think he's more challenging than any other composer of more recent decades, & compared to some, his music isn't too hard to grasp and take in, esp. if the listener is receptive and open to some degree. His use of prepared & amplified pianos, harpsichords and the old concerto grosso format kind of speaks to modernising and updating traditions that were already there, as some have talked about above...


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## violadude

I have a lot of stuff by Schnittke...

All the symphonies, including symphony 0 and the unfinished 9th symphony. All the string quartets. 1st Cello concerto, the string trio, concerto grossi 2 and 6, concerto for 3, the viola concerto and 3 sacred hymns.


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## starthrower

I listened to the entire requiem uploaded at YouTube, and I think it's one of the most beautiful pieces I've heard. I'll definitely be picking up a recording soon.

As far as people bashing modern composers is concerned, I pay it no mind. When someone launches into a tirade in print, it's a commentary on themselves, not the music. As Andre mentioned, it takes a bit of effort, patience, and repeated listening to fully appreciate any work of a broad, ambitious scope. 

Gidom Kremer has stated that he believes Schnittke will eventually be remembered for his later works. I think he may be right. The earlier polystylistic works are a fun and adventurous listen, but when it comes to incorporating rock n roll instruments/elements, my opinion is that someone like Frank Zappa did it much more convincingly. Still, I really enjoy a piece like the Concerto Grosso No.2

Another thing I've noticed about many Schnittke pieces is that he saves the best music for the final movement. So if you're just getting into the music, have patience and listen to the end. You will be rewarded!


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## elgar's ghost

I've just been listening to his first published violin sonata. Am I dreaming or was there a chorus or two of 'La Cucaracha' in the final movement - wtf?!


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## violadude

elgars ghost said:


> I've just been listening to his first published violin sonata. Am I dreaming or was there a chorus or two of 'La Cucaracha' in the final movement - wtf?!


I don't know those pieces...but ya know, I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. lol


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## elgar's ghost

violadude said:


> I don't know those pieces...but ya know, I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. lol


As usual my mind started racing once that chorus kicked in - I wondered if it was an unsubtle reference to the killing of Trotsky in Mexico but then I had to get a grip by remembering that not all Soviet music was political! Perhaps the fact that it threw me off course and got me thinking about it in the first place is the effect that Schnittke was after...


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## Shostakovichiana

Schnittke's music was unknown to me simply because the composer was unknown to me- but what an interesting composer!! 
In many ways, his style reminds me of Shostakovich

His Gogol Suite must be one of the most interesting and curious pieces of music I've ever heard: all the movements are on their own very quirky and strange, but it oddly suits Gogol's characters.. An other interesting thing he does, is using excerpts and themes from famous classical compositions, such as Beethovens 5th, Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker etc. and other genres.
The unusual instrumentation, like the use of theremin, harpsichord and other weird sounds; alarms and church bells, are very entertaining, and help creating the right, creepy and weird atmosphere..
I can STRONGLY recommend this masterwork to all!! :tiphat:


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## Sid James

Yes, the _Gogol Suite _is said to be one of his finest works, I missed a performance of it here earlier in the year. But I did make it to a recital including his_ Sonata for cello and piano _(1978), as I discussed above, it's a great work.

As for what you say here -



Shostakovichiana said:


> ...The unusual instrumentation, like the use of theremin, harpsichord and other weird sounds; alarms and church bells, are very entertaining, and help creating the right, creepy and weird atmosphere...


I read somewhere that his use of (by then) outdated or less complicated instruments and technologies - eg. harpsichord, prepared piano, amplified instruments, & as you add alarms, various percussion and theremin, which I didn't know he used - was for the reason that in the USSR there was no funding for the kind of complex electronic gadgetry that Stockhausen and Boulez was using in Western Europe. So Schnittke aimed to generate similar avant-garde sounds but with jurassic technologies. Kind of ironic, and even that fits the vibe of his music well, imo & it also talks to his imagination and creative ways of getting around problems. In a way, every composition is a solution to some problem or question, whether posed by the composer, his circumstances or someone commissioning a piece, etc...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I bought a CD featuring his concerto for piano four hands and chamber orchestra (1988). Interesting web of sounds on the very busy piano backed by a less than usually loud symphony orchestra (composed for chamber orchestra). Though composed around 1988, it sounded it belonged to a few decades earlier but I couldn't really tell how a 1988 piece compares with one in 1948 for example, when it comes to 12-tone. (I usually can when it comes to other periods).


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## starthrower

Aramis said:


> Actually I'm ready to kill for his piano sonatas which I can't find anywhere - not in web, not in the shops. There are some on YouTube but in bad quality. I'm getting mad. GIVE ME TEH PIANO SONATAZ


There are a couple of sets available. I'm not sure how good they are? Irina Schnittke recorded a fine disc for Sony, but it's out of print. Check Presto Classical. They have 18 pages of Schnittke recordings!


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## Scarpia

Despite being an admirer of Schnittke, I have not heard any of his symphonies yet. The solo concerti are an interesting way to approach him. The violin concerti, cello concerti and piano concerti are all fine pieces (and there is an interesting early (student) piano concerto which sounds more like Shostakovitch than Schnittke).


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## Vaneyes

starthrower said:


> There are a couple of sets available. I'm not sure how good they are? Irina Schnittke recorded a fine disc for Sony, but it's out of print. Check Presto Classical. They have 18 pages of Schnittke recordings!


I can recommend the Tchetuev.


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## Vaneyes

Scarpia said:


> Despite being an admirer of his symphonies, I have not heard any of his symphonies yet. The solo concerti are an interesting way to approach him. The violin concerti, cello concerti and piano concerti are all fine pieces (and there is an interesting early (student) piano concerto which sounds more like Shostakovitch than Schnittke).


Though I'm fond of Syms. 7 & 8, I think the concerti and concerti grossi are his orchestral peaks. Sym 9, completed after his death, is a bust. Don't waste money on it.


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## Oskaar

I understand that Scnittke is the one. I have heard nothing jet, but I want to be social accepted in here, and make a cool inpression  so he is to be explored. But seriously, you get me curious.


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## starthrower

oskaar said:


> I understand that Scnittke is the one. I have heard nothing jet, but I want to be social accepted in here, and make a cool inpression  so he is to be explored. But seriously, you get me curious.


I figured us Schnittke lovers were the outcasts ridiculed for pretending to like ugly music with no melody! 

But seriously, I recommend the concerto for piano and strings, and the cello concertos for starters. There's a bunch of stuff up at YouTube you can listen to.

The Gogol Suite mentioned above is pretty easy to like as well.


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## Oskaar

Reccomend me 5 Schnittke works to start with!


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## Oskaar

Listening to his cello sonata. Extreemly boring and one- dimentional. This is the first I have listened to from Scnittke. Hope he has some more to offer.


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## starthrower

Concerto For Piano And Strings/concerto for four hands on Apex re-issue
Cello Concerto No.2/In Memoriam... w/ Rostopovich on Sony
Gogol Suite/Labyrinths on BIS

if you like choral music try the requiem or choir concerto.


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## Scarpia

oskaar said:


> Listening to his cello sonata. Extreemly boring and one- dimentional. This is the first I have listened to from Scnittke. Hope he has some more to offer.


Actually he wrote two. I'd say they are among Schnittke's best works, so I don't know where to advise you to go next.


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## starthrower

oskaar said:


> Listening to his cello sonata. Extreemly boring and one- dimentional. This is the first I have listened to from Scnittke. Hope he has some more to offer.


I'm not familiar with the cello sonatas, but it seems your forming an opinion quite prematurely.


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## Oskaar

Listening to cello concerto no 1. I can listen to modern music, even atonal. And I think I have a good listening ear. (But very bad listening memory.) But this music dont touch me at all! Adventorous? not. Dramatic? It happens. Highlights? None. Melodies? None. Just listened to Bartok..... Another world! I have only listened to two works from Scnittke, but I am absolutely UNimpressed.


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## Oskaar

I am not forming an oppinion, I am just describing what I hear. I am no expert at all.


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## starthrower

Try this. I think it's a beautiful piece!


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## Oskaar

Music can grow on me, and maybe also Snittche. But first impressing was quite dissapointing. I listened to Henze for the first time yesterday, and it emmidiately FIT my taste. I know, Scnittke may have more to offer, and I will even give those works a new chance. But I only describe my listening experience. I have no reason at all to be pre-orientated.


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## starthrower

Honestly, I didn't like Schnittke right off. But I kept listening and found a lot to like.


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## Oskaar

Thanks, Startover! Yes, I really like this piece! To a sertain limit. But it is very exiting towards the end! I may learn to really like him after some exploring. I only state my first impressioms.


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## Oskaar

starthrower said:


> Honestly, I didn't like Schnittke right off. But I kept listening and found a lot to like.


Yes, I bet I will to! I am not starting an anti Scnittze campaign here. But since I have a short musical memory, I have to comment in the minute. We all knows that music can grow on you.


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## starthrower

Yeah, It actually took me about a month of trying before I started enjoying some of his pieces. He wrote quite a lot of music, so it can be a lengthy process of exploration.


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## Oskaar

I see the potential!


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## Oskaar

I am listening to concerto grosso no 4 right now. Very nice listening. I am not totally impressed, but this will grow on me for sure!


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## Oskaar

I infact LOVE the concerto grosso no 4 by first time listening!


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## Oskaar

The suite in old style is fantastic! I am addapting quick to like Schnittke, I think.


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## starthrower

Yes, Schnitkke has a way of winning over the listener. All of the Concerto Grosso works I've listened to are really fine. No.4 is actually symphony no.5. I find no.2 to be highly enjoyable as well.


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## violadude

starthrower said:


> Yes, Schnitkke has a way of winning over the listener. All of the Concerto Grosso works I've listened to are really fine. No.4 is actually symphony no.5. I find no.2 to be highly enjoyable as well.


Do you mean Concerto Grosso 2 or symphony 2?


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## starthrower

violadude said:


> Do you mean Concerto Grosso 2 or symphony 2?


Concerto Grosso no.2 I haven't heard the second symphony yet.

It's one of his really wacky polystylistic works. Great fun!


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## NightHawk

Was about to mention the string quartets - 4 of them, and some canons in Memoriam Igor Stravinsky which are often performed as a bridge between quartets one and two. This is the format of the complete works for SQ by Kronos which I recently acquired and really like. QIII is an early out favorite, but the 2 disc set is engaging from the get-go and so, I highly recommend these works and this recording, though there are other fine ones out there I am sure.



messiaenfanatic said:


> I will check out his chamber works out. I will probably try listening to his string quartets, violin sonatas, cello sonatas, etc. Are there any recordings of his operas out there? I have his Faust cantata, but I want to hear the full-length version.


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## NightHawk

starthrower said:


> Try this. I think it's a beautiful piece!
> 
> This Concerto for Piano and Strings I hadn't yet heard - it is a beautiful piece.


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## starthrower

NightHawk said:


> This Concerto for Piano and Strings I hadn't yet heard - it is a beautiful piece.


I'm not sure which performance is featured in that YouTube spot?

Looks like I'm going to end up with three different versions. So far I've heard the Ondine recording , and Apex reissue. I slightly prefer the Apex CD for the piano concerto, but the Ondine has a good recording of the 3rd violin concerto as well. I also bought a used copy of the BIS recording which also includes Concerto Grosso No.1, and concerto for oboe & harp. I haven't listened to it yet.


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## NightHawk

I am also new to Schnittke (about 6 weeks, now, more or less) and also Henze (excepting the one disc I have owned for a long time but listened to only once) - I am completely immersed in many works new to me. Multiple listenings to Schnittke Symphonies 1, 3, 8, In Memoriam, The String Quartets, Concerto Grosso 1, 2 and 3, the Cello Sonatas and I have not been disappointed, nor has my interest flagged. Henze, after listening to Sym 7 and Barcarola is having the same effect of joyful discovery...even though so much of all this music is dark, sometimes ghastly and even terrifying, yet still beautiful and haunting...my iPhone is full of Schnittke and other contemporaries, and I kept cds in the car so I am surrounding myself in this music. My mood for six week (or whatever it's been) has lightened up and I am energized. Strange, sort of, and TC has been the main fuel for all of this new music in my life.



oskaar said:


> Music can grow on me, and maybe also Snittche. But first impressing was quite dissapointing. I listened to Henze for the first time yesterday, and it emmidiately FIT my taste. I know, Scnittke may have more to offer, and I will even give those works a new chance. But I only describe my listening experience. I have no reason at all to be pre-orientated.


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## starthrower

Good to hear you're finding the Henze CD favorable. I ordered a copy yesterday.


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## NightHawk

Excellent. will be interested to hear what you think.



starthrower said:


> Good to hear you're finding the Henze CD favorable. I ordered a copy yesterday.


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## skalpel

When it comes to his chamber works, I only have Schnittke's Cello Sonatas and String Quartets (including a few little added extras from the Kronos CD set). Can anybody point me towards something I should go for next in this regard?


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## elgar's ghost

skalpel said:


> When it comes to his chamber works, I only have Schnittke's Cello Sonatas and String Quartets (including a few little added extras from the Kronos CD set). Can anybody point me towards something I should go for next in this regard?


His piano quintet, without a doubt - many Schnittke buffs maintain that it's up there with his best work. I've only heard about half of his chamber output but it's one of my favourites of his whatever the category. There is an orchestral arrangement of it called 'In Memoriam' where the bleak piano fade-out is replaced by the organ. For a wild rollercoaster ride rather than plumbing the emotional depths you may also want to try 'Quasi Una Sonata' - aka Violin Sonata no. 2. It reminds me in a way of something like a shorter version of Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz boiled down to violin and piano. He also did an arrangement for violin and chamber orchestra.


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## skalpel

elgars ghost said:


> His piano quintet, without a doubt - many Schnittke buffs maintain that it's up there with his best work. I've only heard about half of his chamber output but it's one of my favourites of his whatever the category. There is an orchestral arrangement of it called 'In Memoriam' where the bleak piano fade-out is replaced by the organ. For a wild rollercoaster ride rather than plumbing the emotional depths you may also want to try 'Quasi Una Sonata' - aka Violin Sonata no. 2. It reminds me in a way of something like a shorter version of Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz boiled down to violin and piano. He also did an arrangement for violin and chamber orchestra.


Sounds brilliant, thanks very much I'm looking into those immediately.


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## elgar's ghost

skalpel said:


> Sounds brilliant, thanks very much I'm looking into those immediately.


You're welcome. Cool avatar, by the way.


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## violadude

NightHawk said:


> Was about to mention the string quartets - 4 of them, and some canons in Memoriam Igor Stravinsky which are often performed as a bridge between quartets one and two. This is the format of the complete works for SQ by Kronos which I recently acquired and really like. QIII is an early out favorite, but the 2 disc set is engaging from the get-go and so, I highly recommend these works and this recording, though there are other fine ones out there I am sure.


I second this recommendation


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## skalpel

elgars ghost said:


> You're welcome. Cool avatar, by the way.


Thanks! I'm very fond of Eric Dolphy and avant garde jazz in general so your comparison of the Schnittke piece to Coleman had me immediately intrigued. Is your avatar West Brom? That's my guess anyway!


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## elgar's ghost

skalpel said:


> Thanks! I'm very fond of Eric Dolphy and avant garde jazz in general so your comparison of the Schnittke piece to Coleman had me immediately intrigued. Is your avatar West Brom? That's my guess anyway!


I've got Dolphy's Out To Lunch album - what a corker! Also played well for Mingus (and Coleman's Free Jazz, of course). Died too soon. The connection I made from Schnittke to Coleman is pretty tenuous - it's just the loose feel and unpredictability of both pieces that seem to have a common thread. I could have similarly namechecked Coltrane's Ascension, of course!

The avatar? Yes, it's WBA in their unfamiliar white shirts after winning the FA Cup in 1968. They were scheduled to play in their usual navy blue and white stripes as they won the toss for 'home' colours but this was the early days of colour TV in the UK and it was decided that with the limited technology of the day the stripes would 'shimmer' too much on the pictures while the players were moving. As it was, both WBA and Everton ended up playing in non-home colours - WBA in a very rarely-worn combination of white, white, red and Everton in their usual away colours of gold, blue, gold. At the time WBA usually wore an all-red kit away from home if there was a clash with other stripes.


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## skalpel

elgars ghost said:


> I've got Dolphy's Out To Lunch album - what a corker! Also played well for Mingus (and Coleman's Free Jazz, of course). Died too soon. The connection I made from Schnittke to Coleman is pretty tenuous - it's just the loose feel and unpredictability of both pieces that seem to have a common thread. I could have similarly namechecked Coltrane's Ascension, of course!
> 
> The avatar? Yes, it's WBA in their unfamiliar white shirts after winning the FA Cup in 1968. They were scheduled to play in their usual navy blue and white stripes as they won the toss for 'home' colours but this was the early days of colour TV in the UK and it was decided that with the limited technology of the day the stripes would 'shimmer' too much on the pictures while the players were moving. As it was, both WBA and Everton ended up playing in non-home colours - WBA in a very rarely-worn combination of white, white, red and Everton in their usual away colours of gold, blue, gold. At the time WBA usually wore an all-red kit away from home if there was a clash with other stripes.


On first listen to Schnittke's Piano Quintet, I have to applaud your recommendation right away. This really is a phenomenal piece, immediately up there with my favourites of his work, thanks again.

Dolphy's Out To Lunch is indeed a great album, definitely his finest and most focussed achievement and one of my favourite jazz albums too. Died too soon indeed, such a huge loss and we can only imagine where he could have taken his music next. That's also an interesting fact about the cup final shirt change, I had no idea that this was an issue back then! Quite crazy.


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## elgar's ghost

Glad you like the quintet - it was the first work of Schnittke's I heard and have been incrementally getting more of his output since then. There are still large chunks of his orchestral output that I haven't got around to investigating yet, such as the ten symphonies, the six concerti grossi and the four violin concertos, but I don't want to get too much too soon as it might 'spoil' me!


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## starthrower

^^^^^^^^
Schnittke also produced an orchestral score based on the piano quintet. It's titled In Memoriam... I have a Sony recording coupled with his cello concert no. 2 by Rostropovich. 

There's some really great music among the symphonies and concerto grosso works. I went ahead and ordered the 10 symphonies set on BIS. For anyone interested, it's on sale at Presto Classical through Dec. 28th. Much cheaper than Amazon.


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## elgar's ghost

Starthrower - snap! Getting 'In Memoriam' as a coupling for the 2nd cello concerto was a real bonus as I wanted to compare it to the original quintet, and it was all the sweeter as I'd been after his 2nd cello concerto for a while after liking the recording I had of his first (which was coupled with the viola concerto). One day I will also take the plunge and buy the symphonies in one go - I think I have enough experience of his style now to know that I won't be let down.


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## starthrower

The complete set is the way to go for the symphonies. The price is equivalent to two single CDs. And to clear up any confusion, Concerto Grosso No.4/Symphony No. 5 are the same piece and titled as so.


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## Crudblud

The symphonies, concertos, string quartets, all wonderful. And the operas! Life with an Idiot and Historia von D. Johann Fausten are both fantastic.


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## neoshredder

Listening to his Concerto Grosso 1 right now. Looks like I found my favorite modern composer.


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## violadude

neoshredder said:


> Listening to his Concerto Grosso 1 right now. Looks like I found my favorite modern composer.


Fantastic choice


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## Igneous01

neoshredder said:


> Listening to his Concerto Grosso 1 right now. Looks like I found my favorite modern composer.


I kind of went the same way with first listening to schittke - concerto grosso 1 - SQ 3 - concerto grosso 2 - 5, piano quintet, and now viola concerto.

But yes, if you enjoyed the first concerto grosso, i recommend his 3rd string quartet as another smooth transition to his style


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## starthrower

Yeah, the 3rd string quartet is some great music! Also recommended is the concerto for piano and strings, and concerto grosso no. 6


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## neoshredder

I kinda got the idea of his style. Very intense. I'm glad I bought it but I don't know if I can tolerate listening to him more than a half hour. I start craving tonal music after that. I heard he uses the electric guitar on Concerto Grosso 2. That might be my next selection if I decide to go further in his style. Actually I find listening to all periods is better in short doses as the repetitive nature of each period after considerably long listening starts to get noticed. Nothing like minimalism though but I still can find some patterns.


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## Guest

neoshredder said:


> I heard he uses the electric guitar on Concerto Grosso 2. That might be my next selection if I decide to go further in his style.


True, but don't expect any Yngwie Malmsteen style shredding!


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## Igneous01

I just recently found this: a very unique cantata that is going to be undergoing some intense re-listens. 
Im just amazed at his coloration of sound with so many instruments he uses in a single work.


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## myaskovsky2002

emiellucifuge said:


> Ive only listened to the requiem which i fantastic but it hasnt yet been mentioned????


Has been mentioned.

My list moved to another place...You can see all my Russians too.

www3.bell.net/svp1

Martin


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## DABTSAR

Lots of love for Schnittke.
What do you guys think of his polystylistic music vs. the "more withdrawn, bleak style" he started writing near the end of his life? It's been somewhat hard for me to compare the two, because I haven't been able to find as many pieces online in his late style (outside of his last few symphonies which definitely made a big impression!)


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## BurningDesire

I love the music of Alfred Schnittke, the intense drama, baroque, classical and modernist ideas filtered through romantic sensibility <3 Just beautiful. I also especially love his ideas about music, that one day the barriers between so-called "light music" and "art music" will fall. That classical music can be seen in more humorous, less intellectual and elite lights, and that popular music and jazz and folk music can receive the kind of dignity all music deserves, because all music is art music. Any act of composition, regardless of the training of the composer, is an artistic act.


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## rgolubev

I like lots of Schnittke's pieces but one of the most impressing that triggered my interest in his music was *Concerto for mixed choir in 4 movements*. Composed during the years 1984 and 1985, this work for voices has a text based on a very famous in Armenia 10th-century Armenian devotional manuscript by the poet Gregory of Narek (Gregor Narekatsi). There are some very unusual sound reflection and polyphonic effects on the LP recording I had (Melodiya). It was released on a melodiya CD and by Chandos. After I heard that piece I started seeking out anything I could get my hand on and now have 17 CD's and a few LP's. Viola concerto, string quartets, piano quintet and a few others have been mentioned here.


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## neoshredder

Symphony 5 is amazing.


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## starthrower

Kontrapunctus said:


> True, but don't expect any Yngwie Malmsteen style shredding!


If you decide to try a recording of the Concerto Grosso No.2, see if you can get hold of the Moscow Studio Archives CD. This is the definitive recording.


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## BurningDesire

One thing I love about Schnittke's music is the drama. Alot of people say his music sounds schizophrenic, and to certain extent it kinda does... but I think its really amazing how he so genuinely captures the drama that both baroque/classical orchestration and form and harmony can create at their best, and combines it with the drama that 12-tone and pitch set and tone cluster composition, it really does fit well together. Not everything is like the first Symphony (I love that piece, don't get me wrong). He manages to combine these different things so well, so serve whatever kind of drama he wants to make. Schnittke was a true master.


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## neoshredder

BurningDesire said:


> One thing I love about Schnittke's music is the drama. Alot of people say his music sounds schizophrenic, and to certain extent it kinda does... but I think its really amazing how he so genuinely captures the drama that both baroque/classical orchestration and form and harmony can create at their best, and combines it with the drama that 12-tone and pitch set and tone cluster composition, it really does fit well together. Not everything is like the first Symphony (I love that piece, don't get me wrong). He manages to combine these different things so well, so serve whatever kind of drama he wants to make. Schnittke was a true master.


I think his best might either be Concerto Grosso 1 or Concerto Grosso 4/Symphony 5. Though I still got a lot to listen to. Those 2 grabbed me right away. I like that he does use some tonal and mixes it with atonal. To me, he is the most accessible Modern Composer. He seems to mix in Baroque, Classical, and Romantic in a Modern way.


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## Arsakes

I should get something of Schnittke soon, probably Symphonies and Concertos first as it's my method of knowing a composer. 
His description of works seems very interesting.


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## Crudblud

You're in for a treat, I wish I could listen to his symphonies for the first time again.


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## ArthurBrain

The piano quintet was one of the first pieces by Schnittke to get my undivided attention several years ago, and still has the same affect today. The sheer intensity of emotion throughout - be it haunting fragmented melodies or sheer sound clusters is expertly handled that it's just 'magical' in the experience of it. Following that, the 'Faust Cantata', Requiem and especially the viola concerto remain firm favourites to this day. I love the collage of modern and 'traditional' styles in several other works, especially as Schnittke has a grasp of making the tonal passages sound interesting in their own right along with any dissonance. The viola concerto is probably my favourite in that regard.

This following is also one of my favourites by the guy. Old & new converge in an almost playful manner, but not quite....


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## Igneous01

I agree with ArthurBrain about the faust cantata and viola concerto.
The viola concerto especially is just such a unique work, im always amazed by the 'second' movement (after the initial prelude/intro) The solos sound so alien when combined with the orchestra, but when you look at the score, he is using diatonic arpeggios for the solo. 
Faust Cantata is another great example of Schnittke's unique orchestration. It makes me think of impressionism for some reason, like a ravel who lived another 30 years and went mad. Amazing composer.


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## millionrainbows

I think a large part of the enthusiasm for Schnittke lies in his ability to be _*expressive*_ in his music, and I think this owes something to Shostakovich. In his _*Sonata for Violin and Chamber Orchestra (1963)*_ (Nimbus NI 5582), Schnittke manages to be expressive in spite of the fact that it uses arguably inexpressive serial techniques.


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## Vaneyes

A guide to *Schnittke* music.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/tom...fred-schnittke-contemporary-music-tom-service


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## millionrainbows

Then, on the other hand, Schnittke is continuing the post-Romantic tradition of Shostakovich. He uses familiar forms. While on the one hand it is good to see this many people agree and give positive feedback on a modern composer, I find it odd that so many of these same people have problems accepting John Cage or serial music.


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## Neo Romanza

For me, Schnittke is one tough nut to crack. Some of his music I find goes nowhere and has no kind of purpose but then there are works like Peer Gynt which really sound fantastic to me. I also like his _Symphony No. 2_. I find it deeply compelling, but nothing else has grabbed me as much.


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## Neo Romanza

nickgray said:


> Yeah, Schnittke is amazing, I love his late works. What I particularly like about him is that he got over the experiments and simply started to write music that suited him, which is, errrr... well, awesome?


I know this quote is from awhile back and I don't know if this member still frequents here but I would like to make a comment anyway. I think the 'polystylism' suits Schnittke just fine and was very much apart of his development as a composer whereas in the early works he seemed heavily influenced by Shostakovich. With this new style, he found his compositional voice. This style wasn't experimental anymore than Stravinsky's Neoclassical phase. Schnittke's late phase is a result of being haunted by death (he survived a vicious cycle of strokes throughout his later life) and the music turns more inward. Is the music better because it expresses something more personal? Absolutely not. There's plenty of expression to be found in all of his music really. I don't think he ever stopped being himself.


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## Neo Romanza

I didn't see any kind of proper introduction to Schnittke on this thread so allow me to provide some information:










Alfred Schnittke was born on 24 November 1934 in Engels, on the Volga River, in the Soviet Union. His father was born in Frankfurt to a Jewish family of Russian origin who had moved to the USSR in 1926, and his mother was a Volga-German born in Russia. Schnittke began his musical education in 1946 in Vienna where his father, a journalist and translator, had been posted. In 1948 the family moved to Moscow, where Schnittke studied piano and received a diploma in choral conducting.

From 1953 to 1958 he studied counterpoint and composition with Yevgeny Golubev and instrumentation with Nikolai Rakov at the Moscow Conservatory. Schnittke completed the postgraduate course in composition there in 1961 and joined the Union of Composers the same year. He was particularly encouraged by Phillip Herschkowitz, a Webern disciple, who resided in the Soviet capital.

In 1962, Schnittke was appointed instructor in instrumentation at the Moscow Conservatory, a post which he held until 1972. Thereafter he supported himself chiefly as a composer of film scores; by 1984 he had scored more than 60 films.

Noted, above all, for his hallmark "polystylistic" idiom, Schnittke has written in a wide range of genres and styles. His Concerto Grosso No. 1 (1977) was one of the first works to bring his name to prominence. It was popularized by Gidon Kremer, a tireless proponent of his music. Many of Schnittke's works have been inspired by Kremer and other prominent performers, including Yury Bashmet, Natalia Gutman, Gennady Rozhdestvensky and Mstislav Rostropovich. Schnittke first came to America in 1988 for the "Making Music Together" Festival in Boston and the American premiere of Symphony No. 1 by the Boston Symphony Orchestra. He came again in 1991 when Carnegie Hall commissioned Concerto Grosso No. 5 for the Cleveland Orchestra as part of its Centennial Festival, and again in 1994 for the world premiere of his Symphony No. 7 by the New York Philharmonic and the American premiere of his Symphony No. 6 by the National Symphony.

Schnittke composed 9 symphonies, 6 concerti grossi, 4 violin concertos, 2 cello concertos, concertos for piano and a triple concerto for violin, viola and cello, as well as 4 string quartets and much other chamber music, ballet scores, choral and vocal works. His first opera, Life with an Idiot, was premiered in Amsterdam (April 1992). His two new operas, Gesualdo and Historia von D. Johann Fausten were unveiled in Vienna (May 1995) and Hamburg (June 1995) respectively.

From the 1980s, Schnittke's music gained increasing exposure and international acclaim. Schnittke has been the recipient of numerous awards and honors, including Austrian State Prize in 1991, Japan's Imperial Prize in 1992, and, most recently the Slava-Gloria-Prize in Moscow in June 1998; his music has been celebrated with retrospectives and major festivals worldwide. More than 50 compact discs devoted exclusively to his music have been released in the last ten years.

In 1985, Schnittke suffered the first of a series of serious strokes. Despite his physical frailty, however, Schnittke suffered no loss of creative imagination, individuality or productivity. Beginning in 1990, Schnittke resided in Hamburg, maintaining dual German-Russian citizenship. He died, after suffering another stroke, on 3 August 1998 in Hamburg.

[Biography taken from G. Schirmer Inc. website]


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## Cygnenoir

Neo Romanza said:


> For me, Schnittke is one tough nut to crack. Some of his music I find goes nowhere and has no kind of purpose but then there are works like Peer Gynt which really sound fantastic to me. I also like his _Symphony No. 2_. I find it deeply compelling, but nothing else has grabbed me as much.


Then you haven't tried the _Choir Concerto_. I totally agree about Peer Gynt and No. 2


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## Neo Romanza

berghansson said:


> Then you haven't tried the _Choir Concerto_. I totally agree about Peer Gynt and No. 2


No, that's one work I haven't heard yet, although I've seen several recordings that feature this work. Kudos for mentioning it. By the way, I've started coming around to Schnittke a good bit over the last few days. I think my problem lied within myself and my own pre-conceived notions of the way I _thought_ his music should sound. A composer I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to now.


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## Cygnenoir

Neo Romanza said:


> No, that's one work I haven't heard yet, although I've seen several recordings that feature this work. Kudos for mentioning it. By the way, I've started coming around to Schnittke a good bit over the last few days. I think my problem lied within myself and my own pre-conceived notions of the way I _thought_ his music should sound. A composer I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to now.


His music has a vast variety of styles, and can be pretty inpredictable, suprising, and sometimes very tense and deep. I have to discover more of him, but the symphonies are some of the greatest of the 20th Century.


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## Neo Romanza

berghansson said:


> His music has a vast variety of styles, and can be pretty inpredictable, suprising, and sometimes very tense and deep. I have to discover more of him, but the symphonies are some of the greatest of the 20th Century.


Have you heard the _Viola Concerto_ yet? This has to be one of his greatest works. I was quite taken with it on first hearing a couple of days ago. I do think highly of the symphonies now. I always didn't hold this opinion however. I think repeated listening is definitely in order. So far I've really enjoyed them all. Haven't heard _Symphony No. 0_ or the reconstructed 9th yet.


----------



## Neo Romanza

Interesting...






Does anyone know if any of this festival was recorded?


----------



## MagneticGhost

Over on the Talk Classical Project thread - Someone nominated Schnittke's Choir Concerto. I've listened to it several times since and it is highly enjoyable work.
I'll hunt down some more of his works in a few months time when I've listened to everything else that's being introduced to me in the last few weeks since joining this forum


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## Neo Romanza

MagneticGhost said:


> Over on the Talk Classical Project thread - Someone nominated Schnittke's Choir Concerto. I've listened to it several times since and it is highly enjoyable work.
> I'll hunt down some more of his works in a few months time when I've listened to everything else that's being introduced to me in the last few weeks since joining this forum


Yes _Choir Concerto_ is a very nice work. I'm afraid I don't know any of his sacred choral works though. This will change soon.


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## Neo Romanza

I've been revisiting _Symphonies 4 & 6_ again this afternoon. Wonderful works. Looking forward to finally listening to the _Faust Cantata_ plus the concerti for violin and cello. Of course the _Viola Concerto_ is top-notch Schnittke. Also looking forward to listening to the ballets _Labyrinths_ and _Sketches_.


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## Neo Romanza

nickgray said:


> Yeah, Schnittke is amazing, I love his late works. What I particularly like about him is that he got over the experiments and simply started to write music that suited him, which is, errrr... well, awesome?


Schnittke never 'got over anything.' He composed music he wanted from the very beginning to the very end. Don't be ignorant and make light of his 'polystylistic' works and regard them simply as 'experiments,' because they're not, in fact, they contain some beautiful, poignant moments in them. If a composer isn't constantly pushing himself into new directions than he's become stagnant and nothing more than a parody of himself. All of the great composers continued to evolve over time.


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## Cheyenne

I still like Schnittke, though his and Webern's music were the basis of my mother's ban of 20th century music played anywhere near her. New discoveries: his first piano concerto, first cello concerto and Polyphonischer Tango.


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## Neo Romanza

Cheyenne said:


> I still like Schnittke, though his and Webern's music were the basis of my mother's ban of 20th century music played anywhere near her. New discoveries: his first piano concerto, first cello concerto and Polyphonischer Tango.


_Cello Concerto No. 1_ is an outstanding work. The first PC and _Polyphonischer Tango_ are lesser-works but still enjoyable nonetheless. Isn't there only one recording of _Polyphonischer Tango_? I believe it's with Oue on CPO.


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## Neo Romanza

Some commentary on Schnittke's _(K)ein Sommernachtstraum_:


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## starthrower

I've been listening to his concerto for piano four hands and chamber orchestra on the Apex label. A very interesting and ambitious work. I bought the CD for the concerto for piano and strings, but the the four hands concerto really knocks me out!


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## Neo Romanza

starthrower said:


> I've been listening to his concerto for piano four hands and chamber orchestra on the Apex label. A very interesting and ambitious work. I bought the CD for the concerto for piano and strings, but the the four hands concerto really knocks me out!


I own this CD as well and, like you, I bought it for the _Concerto for Piano & Strings_, but the _Concerto for Piano Four Hands_ is an interesting work. I wouldn't dare say it's one of his better works, but it certainly had some remarkable textures.


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## starthrower

Anyone familiar with the Toccata CD, Discoveries? It features a strange work entitled Yellow Sound.


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## elgar's ghost

Thought I'd post this link if anyone wants a complete list of his works which also show what recordings have been made. It hasn't been updated for a while but I still find it a handy reference:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/schnopus.htm


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## Cheyenne

elgars ghost said:


> Thought I'd post this link if anyone wants a complete list of his works which also show what recordings have been made. It hasn't been updated for a while but I still find it a handy reference:
> 
> http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/schnopus.htm


.. Thank you so much!

I ordered Gergieg conducting Schnittke (and Prokofiev/Stravinsky) with the VPO on DVD two days ago: can't wait.


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## starthrower

Thanks for the master list! I noticed one omission concerning the recordings of some of these works including the complete piano sonatas by Igor Tchetuev. And the cello concerto no. 1 by Maria Kliegel listed on the Marco Polo label is now available on Naxos.

I was listening to a lot of Schnittke music yesterday, and reading a bunch of comments/reviews. It's unfortunate that the term "bleak" seems to be a favorite adjective in discussing the later works. I find this attitude to be depressingly shortsighted, and it does a great disservice to those who might seek out Schnittke's later music. An oeuvre of incredible breadth and depth. For me the music is introspective, soul searching, and embraces life's deepest mysteries and human experiences that could never be adequately conveyed in words.


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## Neo Romanza

starthrower said:


> Thanks for the master list! I noticed one omission concerning the recordings of some of these works including the complete piano sonatas by Igor Tchetuev. And the cello concerto no. 1 by Maria Kliegel listed on the Marco Polo label is now available on Naxos.
> 
> I was listening to a lot of Schnittke music yesterday, and reading a bunch of comments/reviews. It's unfortunate that the term "bleak" seems to be a favorite adjective in discussing the later works. I find this attitude to be depressingly shortsighted, and it does a great disservice to those who might seek out Schnittke's later music. An oeuvre of incredible breadth and depth. For me the music is introspective, soul searching, and embraces life's deepest mysteries and human experiences that could never be adequately conveyed in words.


As for the _Cello Concerto No. 1_, one would do well to seek out Ivashkin on Chandos (with Polyansky/Russian State SO). This is an absolutely stunning performance. All other performances I've heard pale in comparison IMHO.

I do think Schnittke's later works are 'bleak' but this shouldn't be used or thought of in a derogatory way. I think they contain mystique, profundity, beauty, and are heart-rendering. It's as if the darkness has engulfed the music, but not completely. There are many shimmers of light and I believe he simply had to compose this way to unburden himself as there was no other way to express the horrors he must have been going through. His health was obviously not the best in his later style, but I think the music gave him some hope. I've heard several people talk about their disappointment of _Symphony No. 9_, but I largely dismiss these people's opinions. I think it's a gorgeous work and while it did have to be deciphered, it's still prime Schnittke. My favorite recording is the Dennis Russell Davies performance on ECM featuring the Raskatov completion.


----------



## starthrower

I agree that the bleak descriptive wasn't necessarily being employed in a derogatory fashion, I just find it far too limiting. It's certainly an appropriate description when referring to Schnittke's health and personal circumstances, but his perseverance and musical output during his later years is nothing short of astonishing.

I've yet to delve into all of the symphonies in great depth, but hope to in time. I have a copy of the complete set on BIS. And no. 8 on Chandos. I'm still trying to decide on string quartet recordings. I have only no. 3 by the Borodin Quartet.

At the moment I'm enjoying the Sony CD of the 2nd cello concerto, the piano sonatas on Caro Mitis, and I just ordered the Toccata CD for Yellow Sound, and Dialogue for cello and ensemble.


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## Neo Romanza

starthrower said:


> I agree that the bleak descriptive wasn't necessarily being employed in a derogatory fashion, I just find it far too limiting. It's certainly an appropriate description when referring to Schnittke's health and personal circumstances, but his perseverance and musical output during his later years is nothing short of astonishing.
> 
> I've yet to delve into all of the symphonies in great depth, but hope to in time. I have a copy of the complete set on BIS. And no. 8 on Chandos. I'm still trying to decide on string quartet recordings. I have only no. 3 by the Borodin Quartet.
> 
> At the moment I'm enjoying the Sony CD of the 2nd cello concerto, the piano sonatas on Caro Mitis, and I just ordered the Toccata CD for Yellow Sound, and Dialogue for cello and ensemble.


I heard all of Schnittke's major works multiple times (some more than others) and I have to say my appreciation and admiration of his music continues to grow. His symphonies aren't major works in his oeuvre but there seems to be an illusion that just because it's a 'symphony' it's somehow the most important part of a composer's output. This, of course, couldn't be any further from the truth, especially in Schnittke's case. This said, I do love _Symphonies 3-5 & 8_. I think these are very fine works. Which performance do you own of _Symphony No. 8_? There are two: Rozhdestvensky and Polyansky. My favorite is Rozhdestvensky as I believe he is able to get to the emotional core of the work and displays a deeper understanding of the score than Polyansky.

The SQs are still works I need to revisit at some point. I only own the Kronos Quartet set, which is OOP now unfortunately. There is a work in this set titled _Collected Songs Where Every Verse Is Filled With Grief_ that I find especially touching. I believe this work was written in the mid-80s. It's highly underrated IMHO. Another chamber works I feel is underrated is _Four Hymns_ for bassoon, cello, double bass, harpsichord, harp, timpani, and tubular bells. There's only one recording of the work and it's on BIS.


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## Neo Romanza

I was actually incorrect in saying there are only two performances of Schnittke's _Symphony No. 8_ available. There are actually three with the third being Lu Jia/Norrkoping SO on BIS.


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## Cheyenne

We're very lucky that the head of BIS loves Alfred Schnittke, otherwise recordings would be even more sparse. Without that label and the championing by certain soloists we may well have seen very, very little of him here.


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## Neo Romanza

Cheyenne said:


> We're very lucky that the head of BIS loves Alfred Schnittke, otherwise recordings would be even more sparse. Without that label and the championing by certain soloists we may well have seen very, very little of him here.


I agree. Without the championing of remarkable musicians like Rozhdestvensky, Bashmet, Kremer, Ivashkin, Polyansky, among others, his music could have slipped into obscurity. But dedicated musicians are only half the battle, a composer needs a record label to gain more exposure, so, yes, thankfully Schnittke has had BIS, Chandos, and several others on his side.


----------



## Neo Romanza

What does everyone think about Schnittke's three ballets: _Labyrinths_, _Sketches_, and _Peer Gynt_?


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## Trout

Neo Romanza said:


> What does everyone think about Schnittke's three ballets: _Labyrinths_, _Sketches_, and _Peer Gynt_?


I really like _Peer Gynt_. It is 2 hours of great Schnittke fun, with certain juxtapositions and melodies that remind me a little of Ives. I remember the second act, in particular, has many seemingly pleasant or jovial themes that change into something completely different in classic Schnittke fashion. I have only heard it in its entirety once, but I don't think there was ever a moment in the entire 2 hours in which my attention was diverted. So, I definitely recommend trying it, if you have not already of course; I think I may even prefer this ballet to its more famous counterpart by Grieg.


----------



## Neo Romanza

Trout said:


> I really like _Peer Gynt_. It is 2 hours of great Schnittke fun, with certain juxtapositions and melodies that remind me a little of Ives. I remember the second act, in particular, has many seemingly pleasant or jovial themes that change into something completely different in classic Schnittke fashion. I have only heard it in its entirety once, but I don't think there was ever a moment in the entire 2 hours in which my attention was diverted. So, I definitely recommend trying it, if you have not already of course; I think I may even prefer this ballet to its more famous counterpart by Grieg.


I've heard, and love, Schnittke's _Peer Gynt_.  I've heard it dozens of times. It's a remarkable achievement no question about it. I'm just asking for people's general opinions about these ballets. I've heard all of them (of course). I need to refresh my memory of _Labyrinths_, though. I was just listening to _Sketches_ the other day and this is lots of Schnittke fun too!


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## Trout

Neo Romanza said:


> I've heard, and love, Schnittke's _Peer Gynt_.  I've heard it dozens of times. It's a remarkable achievement no question about it. I'm just asking for people's general opinions about these ballets. I've heard all of them (of course). I need to refresh my memory of _Labyrinths_, though. I was just listening to _Sketches_ the other day and this is lots of Schnittke fun too!


Yes, _Peer Gynt_ is a great work, in my opinion. I have heard _Labyrinths_ as well which I thought was a bit more restrained than _Peer Gynt_, in terms of size, musical content, and even the orchestral forces it calls for. The former made less of an impression on me than the latter did, but perhaps I missed some of its subtleties which I hope I can rectify with more listenings. I have not heard _Sketches_ yet, but I hope I can set aside some time for it in the next day or two. Thanks for the recommendation.


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## Neo Romanza

Trout said:


> Yes, _Peer Gynt_ is a great work, in my opinion. I have heard _Labyrinths_ as well which I thought was a bit more restrained than _Peer Gynt_, in terms of size, musical content, and even the orchestral forces it calls for. The former made less of an impression on me than the latter did, but perhaps I missed some of its subtleties which I hope I can rectify with more listenings. I have not heard _Sketches_ yet, but I hope I can set aside some time for it in the next day or two. Thanks for the recommendation.


Well _Sketches_ recalls some of the zany antics of _Gogol Suite_ and the 'rock' section of the _Requiem_. There's even some cool electric guitar parts scattered throughout the score. There's only one performance of it available unfortunately but thankfully it's well-performed. I need to go back and listen to _Labyrinths_ which I probably will do tonight.

What are some of your favorite Schnitte works?


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## Trout

Neo Romanza said:


> Well _Sketches_ recalls some of the zany antics of _Gogol Suite_ and the 'rock' section of the _Requiem_. There's even some cool electric guitar parts scattered throughout the score. There's only one performance of it available unfortunately but thankfully it's well-performed. I need to go back and listen to _Labyrinths_ which I probably will do tonight.
> 
> What are some of your favorite Schnitte works?


So far the works I have enjoyed the most include:

Cello Concerto No. 1
Choir Concerto
Peer Gynt
Piano Quintet
Symphony No. 5 "Concerto Grosso No. 4"

I have not delved very deeply into his oeuvre yet, though, so this list is pretty tentative.


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## Neo Romanza

Trout said:


> So far the works I have enjoyed the most include:
> 
> Cello Concerto No. 1
> Choir Concerto
> Peer Gynt
> Piano Quintet
> Symphony No. 5 "Concerto Grosso No. 4"
> 
> I have not delved very deeply into his oeuvre yet, though, so this list is pretty tentative.


All of those are first-rate works. Be sure to check out _Cello Concerto No. 2_, _Viola Concerto_, _Violin Concerto No. 4_, _Symphonies 3, 4, 8, & 9_ (you've already heard, and enjoy, the 5th), _String Trio_, _Hymns_ (for chamber ensemble), _(K)ein Sommernachtstraum_, the SQs, _Requiem_, _Faust Cantata_, _Concerto for Piano and String Orchestra_, _In Memoriam_, _Gogol Suite_ (in fact check out all his film music --- top-notch), _Ritual_, _Concerti Grossi 1-4, 6_, and the _Cello Sonatas_.

This should keep you busy for awhile.


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## GiulioCesare

oskaar said:


> I understand that 1) Scnittke is the one. I have heard nothing jet, but I want to be social accepted in here, and make a cool inpression  so he is to be explored. But seriously, you get me curious.





oskaar said:


> Reccomend me 5 2) Schnittke works to start with!





oskaar said:


> Music can grow on me, and maybe also 4) Snittche. But first impressing was quite dissapointing. I listened to Henze for the first time yesterday, and it emmidiately FIT my taste. I know, Scnittke may have more to offer, and I will even give those works a new chance. But I only describe my listening experience. I have no reason at all to be pre-orientated.





oskaar said:


> Yes, I bet I will to! I am not starting an anti 4) Scnittze campaign here. But since I have a short musical memory, I have to comment in the minute. We all knows that music can grow on you.


This must be a world record.


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## Cheyenne

Just found that CD in a used book-store. So happy!


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## korenbloem

Cheyenne said:


> Just found that CD in a used book-store. So happy!


So jealous 

(nice buy!!!)


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## Vaneyes

But 'tis a shame that someone felt the need to orphan a Schnittke in a used bookstore.


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## Manxfeeder

I adopted these orphaned Schnittkes at my used bookstore. Makes me feel kinda special.


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## Vaneyes

Next, you'll be visiting the foodbanks.


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## neoshredder

Schnittke is awesome. By far my favorite Composer in the last 30 years.


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## Neo Romanza

Cheyenne said:


> Just found that CD in a used book-store. So happy!


I bought this recording several months ago. I enjoyed it. I really like this performance of _Concerto for Piano and Strings_. Just as good as the classic Postnikova performance with Rozhdestvensky (please tell me you know this performance).


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## Neo Romanza

Manxfeeder said:


> I adopted these orphaned Schnittkes at my used bookstore. Makes me feel kinda special.
> 
> View attachment 25941


Yeah, that's a great set right there. I've enjoyed it a great deal. I prefer most of these performances over Polyansky, although Polyansky didn't record the 1st, 3rd, 5th, or 9th.

Although, my favorite _Symphony No. 8_ performance is still Rozhdestvensky/Royal Stockholm Philharmonic on Chandos. It doesn't get much better than this. There's also a scorching performance of _Concerto Grosso No. 6_ on this recording too.


----------



## Oreb

Any recs for the String Quartet recordings? (Other than Kronos)


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## Manxfeeder

Neo Romanza said:


> Although, my favorite _Symphony No. 8_ performance is still Rozhdestvensky/Royal Stockholm Philharmonic on Chandos. It doesn't get much better than this. There's also a scorching performance of _Concerto Grosso No. 6_ on this recording too.


Thanks for the heads-uo.


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## starthrower

Oreb said:


> Any recs for the String Quartet recordings? (Other than Kronos)


I don't think there's too many other complete sets other than the Molinari Quartet, which I haven't heard. I have no. 3 by the Borodin's, which is a highly dramatic work. I bought it used on an out of print Virgin CD. I'm very happy with this recording.

No. 4 was written for the Alban Berg Quartet, and recorded for the EMI label.


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## Noak

Oreb said:


> Any recs for the String Quartet recordings? (Other than Kronos)


http://www.amazon.com/Alfred-Schnittke-String-Quartets-Nos/dp/B0000016G2


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## Neo Romanza

starthrower said:


> I don't think there's too many other complete sets other than the Molinari Quartet, which I haven't heard. I have no. 3 by the Borodin's, which is a highly dramatic work. I bought it used on an out of print Virgin CD. I'm very happy with this recording.
> 
> No. 4 was written for the Alban Berg Quartet, and recorded for the EMI label.


There's a performance of _String Quartet No. 2_ on the Vox label which I believe the Beethoven Quartet performs (I'll have look at my recording back insert) that's just scorching. This recording also contains the rarely heard _Hymns_ for bassoon, cello, double bass, harp, harpsichord, timpani, and tubular bells. The only other performance I know of _Hymns_ is on a BIS recording, but I believe I like this Vox recording a bit better. Both are good in their own ways though.


----------



## Vaneyes

Oreb said:


> Any recs for the String Quartet recordings? (Other than Kronos)


1, 3, 4, Canon in Memory of Igor Stravinsky w. Kapralova Qt. (Arco Diva, rec.2002); 2 & 3, w. Lark Qt. (Arabesque, rec.1997). :tiphat:


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## Igneous01

Besides the already listed works here, has anyone listened to his string trio? It kind of takes me by surprise by how beautiful and yet tragic the whole work is. It doesn't sound like the usual Schnittke.

This is currently the best version on youtube:






Also, his string quartet #2 really grew on me, that agitato is like the physical manifestation of a flashback from a PTSD sufferer


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## WavesOfParadox

I think Schnittke might be my favorite composer. Like ever.


----------



## Neo Romanza

WavesOfParadox said:


> I think Schnittke might be my favorite composer. Like ever.


He's certainly one of mine but I love so many others that it would be a great injustice for me to call him my absolute favorite. These 20th Century Russian, French, Latin American, Spanish, and East European composers remain embedded into my soul.


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## Cheyenne

I finally bought this wonderful CD:


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## EdwardBast

Cheyenne said:


> I finally bought this wonderful CD:


The Concerto for Piano and String orchestra is the piece that sold me on Schnittke. While I was teaching at the Cincinnati Conservatory I heard a live performance by string players and a pianist from the St. Petersburg Conservatory. They were on the road shortly after the collapse and dissolution of the USSR. An absolutely amazing performance. Soon after, I bought the above recording (different cover art). Have since bought and listened to lots of Schnittke. I find him even more uneven that Shostakovich, but great when he is on. Love some of the symphonies and concerti grossi especially.


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## WavesOfParadox

Right now I'm really loving his Requiem.


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## Manxfeeder

EdwardBast said:


> Love some of the symphonies and concerti grossi especially.


Which symphonies? I have the complete set, and they don't all grab me yet.


----------



## Neo Romanza

Cheyenne said:


> I finally bought this wonderful CD:


A great disc for sure, Cheyenne. I'm not completely convinced of _Concerto for piano four hands_ but I do enjoy the _Concerto for Piano and Strings_ a lot.


----------



## Neo Romanza

WavesOfParadox said:


> Right now I'm really loving his Requiem.


Which performance? I love Perkman's (BIS) and Polyansky's (Chandos) performances.


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## WavesOfParadox

Polyansky. I'll have to check out the Parkman.


----------



## EdwardBast

Manxfeeder said:


> Which symphonies? I have the complete set, and they don't all grab me yet.


I too have the complete set. I like 3 and 7 especially at the moment. Haven't done too much analysis as yet, but one thing I especially love about 7 is the way the dirge finally emerges in the end after having been verticalized earlier as the basis of a lot of dissonant harmony. Always enjoy that sort of "backward development," especially when it is done with subtlety and poignancy as here.

Also, I don't expect all of them to grab me - ever. I love some Schnittke, detest just as much.


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## starthrower

Manxfeeder said:


> Which symphonies? I have the complete set, and they don't all grab me yet.


The symphonies are all very different. No. 1 is a wacky, wild ride that includes a little bit of everything.

I was surprised to hear some Schnittke on the radio last night. It was his violin concerto no. 4, which I hadn't heard before. It was performed by the San Francisco Symphony with their concertmaster playing the solo part. And appropriately, he's a Russian immigrant.


----------



## Igneous01

starthrower said:


> The symphonies are all very different. No. 1 is a wacky, wild ride that includes a little bit of everything.
> 
> I was surprised to hear some Schnittke on the radio last night. It was his violin concerto no. 4, which I hadn't heard before. It was performed by the San Francisco Symphony with their concertmaster playing the solo part. And appropriately, he's a Russian immigrant.


funny you should mention the violin concerto 4, I've been listening to it quite a bit - I'm a little split on the work though - the 2nd, and 3rd movement's I really like, but the first kind of drags its feet, and the last one is not particularly imaginative.


----------



## Blake

He easily joins the list of the greatest composers of all time, for me. Amazing vision and execution.


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## starthrower

I've got three recordings of the concerto for piano and strings, and the performance on the Apex CD pictured above sounds the best to my ears.


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## KenOC

I've never been a big fan of Schnittke, or of choral music either. But I got a recording of his Requiem (Polyansky cond.) and...wow! Very strong, very original, very effective. I must start going through his works with more attention.


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## Vaneyes

I think eleven thread pages, thus far, speaks rather well of Alfred. I'm not a completist, so I only have sixteen CDs of his works. Still growing.:tiphat:


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## starthrower

I recently listened to his opera, Life With an Idiot, and it sounds brilliant. I sought out a used CD, since it's out of print.

I also listened to his ballet, Peer Gynt. It's pretty long covering two CDs, but I was very impressed with the music.

I love the requiem too. I had been listening to it on YouTube for a couple of years, but finally bought a CD by Pro Musica Ensemble which also includes the Choir Concerto.


----------



## Albert7

Just got the Gidon Kremer CD with his works including the Concerto Grosso. Never heard of him until I came here to TC so basically I'm starting fresh with his stuff.


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## brotagonist

albertfallickwang said:


> Just got the Gidon Kremer CD with his works including the Concerto Grosso.


"[T]he Concerto Grosso"? You mean Concerto Grosso 4 (aka Symphony 5)?


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## starthrower

brotagonist said:


> "[T]he Concerto Grosso"? You mean Concerto Grosso 4 (aka Symphony 5)?


Gidon Kremer performs the Concerto Grosso no. 1 on a DG recording.


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## clavichorder

I am developing an interest in his work, having been intrigued by some pieces I've heard. What are 5 good Schnittke pieces to start with?


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## elgar's ghost

clavichorder said:


> I am developing an interest in his work, having been intrigued by some pieces I've heard. What are 5 good Schnittke pieces to start with?


I suggest that the Piano Quintet be amongst them - but there are many candidates.


----------



## Vaneyes

clavichorder said:


> I am developing an interest in his work, having been intrigued by some pieces I've heard. What are 5 good Schnittke pieces to start with?


Pick from Concerti, Concerti Grossi, Symphonies 2, 7, 8, Piano Quintet, Piano Trio, Cello Sonatas 1 & 2, Violin Sonatas 1 & 2.:tiphat:


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## starthrower

clavichorder said:


> I am developing an interest in his work, having been intrigued by some pieces I've heard. What are 5 good Schnittke pieces to start with?


His requiem is very beautiful. That's tops on my list. Also the concerto for piano and strings. String quartets 2 & 3.


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## Kibbles Croquettes

I initially liked many of his _1st_ works:

The 1st concerto grosso

The entrance of the violin soloists after the introduction by the prepared piano blew my mind. The delicate minor 2nd (a musical interval, consists of two adjacent notes, eg. C and Db) sounded wonderful. And obviously the rondo with _the_ tango...

The 1st sonata for cello and piano

Highlights in this piece for me are the frantic 2nd movement and the beautiful modal-kinda melody in the last movement, especially when it's "harmonized" with chromatic clusters.

The 1st sonata for violin and piano

Well, how can you _not_ like the la cucaracha -melody in the final movement? That grooves. Oh, and the detective series opening theme from the 2nd movement!

The 1st cello concerto

The dorian melody that opens the piece is obviously very memorable, and the final movement.

Other pieces that I liked right from the beginning were "Quasi una sonata" which is a chamber orchestra arrangement of his 2nd sonata for violin and piano and the Concerto for piano and string orchestra. Oh, and the BACH-waltz from the 2nd movement of his Piano Quintet.


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## clavichorder

^Your recommendation was a good one. I'm really enjoying the 1st concerto grosso.


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## starthrower

Eventually, I'll end up with most everything by Schnittke. I'm waiting for the opera CD to show up in my mailbox.


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## aajj

I don't know a whole lot of Schnittke's work, but his Concerto for Piano & Strings is quite stirring

Even better is the 3rd String Quartet. I bought a CD by Kronos Quartet called Winter is Hard a long time ago, fine mix of modern music, and Schnittke's Quartet was the highlight.


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## elgar's ghost

Purely out of self-interest, it would be nice if BIS could re-release the Concerti Grossi together (apart from the one which doubles up as Symphony no. 5) I've only got two out of the six but getting the other four would mean duplicating some of the same works (boo-hoo...). 

And I'm hankering for a cheaper Peer Gynt re-release, too.


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## Guest

Who's a clever boy then, checking the composer index. Have a biscuit.

Whoa Alfred! Them symphonies.


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## Guest

A powerful collection, including Schnittke's String Trio. (Also Weinberg, Kurtag and Penderecki).


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## nbharakey

For somebody new to Schnittke, this can be good for beginning.
Also, it is fun to watch with Rozhdestvensky conducting.


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## EdwardBast

nbharakey said:


> For somebody new to Schnittke, this can be good for beginning.
> Also, it is fun to watch with Rozhdestvensky conducting.


Well, nb, it is equally good for those who know him well. I enjoyed the novel Dead Souls (Gogol) and I now want to see the movie. Providing music for such an enterprise, if it is done well, should be as highly regarded as writing opera. This score is great and Rozhdestvensky is hilarious. Thanks. And welcome!


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## dzc4627

just getting into schnittke, and after hearing you concerto grossos, i can say that a big redeemable quality of yours is the rich sound you implemented into your stuff. there would be so many times where i would notice how thick and surrounding the piece sounded. thanks!


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## clavichorder

I heard the Violin Concerto 4 live and was very impressed. It gave me tears and shivers in parts. Now I am revisiting this powerful concert experience in recording. The work was paired with Shostakovich 7 and I must say, a concert I was expecting not to really enjoy was the best I'd been to in years.


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## dzc4627

going to post as a bit more educated version of my previous self:

having listened to all concerto grossos (many times each), first 4 symphonies, many chamber pieces, string quartets, choir concertos, etc.

i am as of now knee deep in schnittke!

not sure what i was talking about earlier with rich sound. i'd now say there are many redeemable qualities about his music. humor is one of them definitely. as well as a kind of mixed emotion center that kinda goes hand in hand with his "polystylism." tons of variety. and my personal favorite: conglomeration of many instruments playing different cells, creating a large mass, which i believe was pioneered in the first few minutes of stravinsky's rite. schnittke has also opened me up to the pre- 19th century stuff which i could not seem to appreciate beforehand: mozart, bach, haydn, etc. 

favorite schnittke pieces as of now: Septet, Symphony 1, Symphony 2, Concerto Grossos 1/2/3, String Quartet 3

need to listen to all of Peer Gynt and tons of other stuff still which is very daunting!

stravinsky better watch out... alfred is traveling steadily to my list of favorite composers...!


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## elgar's ghost

If anyone needs a complete list of Schnittke's output for reference purposes here's a link. Just a word of caution - my antivirus system is saying that the website isn't rated, but it's not giving it a warning symbol either. If any mods are wary please feel free to delete.

http://home.online.nl/ovar/schnopus.htm


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## Birdsong88

When I really like a composer I try to listen to the complete works and Schnittke is most definitely one of them. Anyone else out there a completist like me for this composer?


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## elgar's ghost

I wouldn't expect to have everything that's available by Schnittke but there are still key works I am missing which I would like to have on disc. Prices are too high with some (Peer Gynt, Life With an Idiot, the Septet and some of the movie music) whereas others I would like (four of the Concerti Grossi, the Four Hymns and a handful of stand-alone works) would be compromised by having to buy works I already have.


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## brotagonist

Yes, I agree with that, elgars ghost. For some reason, quite a lot of 'core' Schnittke has gone out of print and the prices of existing discs are exorbitant. I have a decent little selection, but I would like more. I am a bit unmoved by his later minimalist style and some of the religious stuff is not my cup of tea (yet), which excludes a few of the symphonies from my current range of interest. I'd definitely like to have all of the Concerti Grossi, the Piano Quintet, the Violin Concerti... and the Septet? I'd never even heard of that one!


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## elgar's ghost

brotagonist said:


> Yes, I agree with that, elgars ghost. For some reason, quite a lot of 'core' Schnittke has gone out of print and the prices of existing discs are exorbitant. I have a decent little selection, but I would like more. I am a bit unmoved by his later minimalist style and some of the religious stuff is not my cup of tea (yet), which excludes a few of the symphonies from my current range of interest. I'd definitely like to have all of the Concerti Grossi, the Piano Quintet, the Violin Concerti... and the Septet? I'd never even heard of that one!


Here 'tis...a most desirable release, but currently expensive.


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## dzc4627

anyone remotely interested in this amazing composer! this is a book i received for my birthday and i just recently finished. a very well written biography, the author being a close friend who had regular talks with schnittke for some time, this book gives tons of insight and context to schnittke's work, and is a view into alfred's very complicated and very busy life. it was written two years before schnittke's death, by alexander ivashkin, who recently passed in 2014. intriguing politics, suspense, and tragedy... i highly recommend it! i could not stop reading...

http://www.amazon.com/Alfred-Schnittke-20th-Century-Composers/dp/0714831697


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## MoonlightSonata

dzc4627 said:


> anyone remotely interested in this amazing composer! this is a book i received for my birthday and i just recently finished. a very well written biography, the author being a close friend who had regular talks with schnittke for some time, this book gives tons of insight and context to schnittke's work, and is a view into alfred's very complicated and very busy life. it was written two years before schnittke's death, by alexander ivashkin, who recently passed in 2014. intriguing politics, suspense, and tragedy... i highly recommend it! i could not stop reading...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Alfred-Schnittke-20th-Century-Composers/dp/0714831697


That sounds fascinating! I'll look out for it.


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## calvinpv

Brotagonist's choice of the word "minimalist" had me thinking about whether we should call Schnittke a minimalist in addition to a polystylist. From my (admittedly limited) exposure to minimalist music, it seems like its main thrust is to use the phenomena of phase shift and wave superposition to create a rhythmic drive that's hypnotic. While Schnittke doesn't go as far as this, I wonder if people would agree that we should call Schnittke a proto- or quasi- minimalist. Beneath the polystylist surface of his music, each accompaniment instrument often plays a motif of a few notes that stagger one another by a beat. It results in a cascading effect of noise that disorients the listener from the pulse of the music. Sometimes, the motives will be played a semitone above or below the original to create a tone-cluster effect, but the result is the same. Other times, the motif will be stretched or compressed in duration. But overall, this happens frequently enough to make me ask this question. The best examples I can think of are the Piano Quintet and the second movement of the Second String Quartet. Anyways, would it be correct to call this aspect of Schnittke's music minimalist, quasi-minimalist, or something else?


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## Vaneyes

*Schnittke* is not a Minimalist by any stretch.


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## dzc4627

calvin, his works are often varied enough to the point past minimalism. not even his later works, which i have been listening to a lot recently, are sparse enough to be considered minimal. his 6/7/8/9th symphonies are more tame and separated than say his first, but again, not minimalist. the piano quintet, while having a constant piano pulse, features a lot of variation in terms of chords and melody. i think you may be mistaking his tendency to have long buildups and accumulations of cells...stretched out to diminish into nothing, for minimalism. 

on a different note, just finished his first cello concerto, performed by alexander ivashkin, the same guy that wrote that book i was talking about in a few posts up! incredible! one of his best, definitely...the last movement is just really something.


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## Guest

I've revisited my meagre Schnittke works and, this very afternoon, got blown away by some of it. The symphonies and string quartets have just gone onto my shopping list.


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## brotagonist

I want a few more, too! Unfortunately, there is not a huge selection. He seems to have fallen out of favour with record companies and existing albums are rather pricey. Luckily, I already have the SQs and a couple of Symphonies and Concerti Grossi, as well as the Ivashkin Cello album on Chandos


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## Guest

Yeah, it looks like slim pickings.


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## starthrower

One of my favorites is the Borodin Quartet's Schnittke album on Virgin. It's out of print, but used copies are very affordable. I love the way they play the 3rd quartet. It's so passionate! The Tale Quartet pales in comparison. I just wish the Borodin's had recorded all of them. And the Mahler Quartet that Schnittke arranged is beautiful! http://www.amazon.com/Schnittke-Str...UTF8&qid=1450030542&sr=1-1&keywords=schnittke


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## starthrower

The Gidon Kremer CD on DG with Concerto Grosso No. 1 is another great album that can be picked up cheap. And if you can find inexpensive copies of the Moscow Studio Archives CDs with performances by Schnittke's Russian colleagues, definitely grab those!


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## Skilmarilion

No-one for Kronos?

Their album has a remarkable arrangement of the equally remarkable second movement of the Choir Concerto.


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## brotagonist

I wish the Violin Concertos with Kremer and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe would finally get reissued!

I decided to buy this one:


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## brotagonist

Skilmarilion said:


> No-one for Kronos?
> 
> Their album has a remarkable arrangement of the equally remarkable second movement of the Choir Concerto.


It's out of print. Prices in Canada range from $40-$135 plus shipping.


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## Guest

brotagonist said:


> I wish the Violin Concertos with Kremer and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe would finally get reissued!
> 
> I think I'm going to buy this one:


Ha! I listened to the String Trio earlier on; on this album-


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## Vaneyes

brotagonist said:


> *I wish the Violin Concertos with Kremer and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe would finally get reissued!*
> 
> I decided to buy this one:


In the meantime, No. 4 (masterpiece of the bunch) w. Kremer/Philharmonia/Eschenbach will appease nicely.


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## brotagonist

Vaneyes said:


> In the meantime, No. 4 (masterpiece of the bunch) w. Kremer/Philharmonia/Eschenbach will appease nicely.


I might spring for it eventually, but I am going to wait a couple of years, just in case (there is YT-and Naxos, too).


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## Guest

I listened to a lot of movements from various Schnittke symphonies on spotify yesterday...

...so now I've ordered the set!!


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## elgar's ghost

dogen said:


> I listened to a lot of movements from various Schnittke symphonies on spotify yesterday...
> 
> ...so now I've ordered the set!!


Good man - you won't regret it.


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## PeterFromLA

I don't know of any conductor who has recorded a definitive set of the Schnittke Symphonies. If I had to choose the best Schnittke conductors in the symphonies, however, I'd say Gennady Rozhdestvensky and Valery Polyansky. I don't think either conductor has recorded the entire cycle, however. I'm especially eager to hear Polynansky's take on the Fifth.

Rozhdestvensky's premiere recording of the First Cello Concerto, on Melodiya, by the way, is superb. Really touching. It was performed by the original soloist, Natalia Gutman. ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81UXP0RfZBL._SL1452_.jpg


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## starthrower

^^^
I have a copy of that CD on the way. I've been waiting a few years for an affordable price. I have the other Moscow Studio Archives CD featuring Concerto Grosso No.2, and the viola concerto.


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## dzc4627

Rozhdestvensky's recordings are the best, though a bit shaky on the actual sound quality. For the cello concertos I'd recommend Alexander Ivashkin, a very personal acquaintance of Schnittke who also wrote a biography on him which I received for my birthday last year. A really great, kind of lengthy, read. Here you can get the cello concerto paired with Symphony 7 http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-7-Cello-Concerto-1/dp/B00004TZSG


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## PeterFromLA

Agree that the sound quality isn't top shelf, but the feeling is tremendous. Important to remember that Schnittke's music premieres were very significant, pre-Glasnost events, and both performers and listeners often imbued the music with a sense of resistance and spirituality that officialdom did not countenance. Hence, the premiere performances are often touched with electricity that is quite compelling. Kremer, Bashmet, Gutman, the Borodin Quartet, Rozhdy, et al thus produced vital documents.


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## dzc4627

Yes, I am aware haha. This is why I tend to only listen to those recordings. Not to gloat, but I am aware of the performance significance. I am a bit of a "Schnittke" scholar if you will. Schnittke was actually not permitted to see a lot of his premieres that were abroad because of that dastardly Khrennikov, the harsh and jealous head of the Union of Soviet Composers at the time (appointed by Stalin, of course). Yes, those performers all seemed to take a kind of oath to spread Schnittke's output from the confines of the USSR. And it worked. In his hay day, he was one of the most performed composers. Died down a bit recently. Ivashkin was a great friend of Schnittke's and conducted interviews with him and wrote that biography I mentioned. His performances of the Cello concerti and the Cello sonatas are great.

Shame, as I and many others will probably never get to see a lot of my favorite pieces by my favorite composer played.


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## Klassic

It appears (and I could be wrong in this) that Schnittke may very well be the composer with the most signification in the next 80 years. He's certainly one of the most significant modern composers I have discovered.


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## Vaneyes

dzc4627 said:


> Yes, I am aware haha. This is why I tend to only listen to those recordings. Not to gloat, but I am aware of the performance significance. I am a bit of a "Schnittke" scholar if you will. Schnittke was actually not permitted to see a lot of his premieres that were abroad because of that dastardly Khrennikov, the harsh and jealous head of the Union of Soviet Composers at the time (appointed by Stalin, of course). Yes, those performers all seemed to take a kind of oath to spread Schnittke's output from the confines of the USSR. And it worked. In his hay day, he was one of the most performed composers. Died down a bit recently. Ivashkin was a great friend of Schnittke's and conducted interviews with him and wrote that biography I mentioned. His performances of the Cello concerti and the Cello sonatas are great.
> 
> *Shame, as I and many others will probably never get to see a lot of my favorite pieces by my favorite composer played.*


A travesty indeed.


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## Klassic

Schnittke will gain in stature as time goes on precisely because it is hard to deny the substance and uniqueness of his music. I believe his work in dissonance, expands the medium, is groundbreaking.


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## dzc4627

Yes. Dissonance was a language that he knew all too well. It was his blood. Especially in his later works, the bare chromatic language that he spoke in is very much there. So much so that I can often predict the next note to come after listening to so much of it.


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## Klassic

One of the most brilliant pieces of music I have ever heard in my entire life was composed by Schnittke: his *Concerto for Piano and Strings*. This is worth taking the time to learn, although I suspect many people on this thread have _long_ known about and appreciated this piece. The key to Schnittke is simply not to fight the dissonance but go with it!


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## PeterFromLA

dzc4627 said:


> I am a bit of a "Schnittke" scholar if you will.


Great, the more Schnittke scholars, the better. He's one of my three favorite post WWII composers (along with Ligeti and Lutoslawski... I can never decide which one I like more, unless I happen to be listening to one of their pieces, in which case, at that time, it's whichever composer I'm listening to...).

The first recording of Schnittke I ever heard was in 1984, a Philips LP that featured Kremer in the Second Violin Concerto and the Piano Quintet. It was never transfered to CD, so far as I know.









My interest in Schnittke was piqued, so when the Bis recording of Schnittke's Concerto for Piano and Strings was shortly thereafter released, I bought it and my Schnittke interest turned into my Schnittke fixation. At the time, in the mid-1980s, it felt like a great time to be alive for those with an interest in classical music, with these three composers regularly turning out amazing compositions (Ligeti and the great Piano Etudes, Violin Concerto, and Horn Trio, Lutoslawski and his 3rd Symphony and Piano Conceto, Schnittke and his various concerti and symphonies), an apotheosis that preceded debilitating illnesses and death fairly soon thereafter (1990s and 2000s)... I think people will eventually look back on that period and be amazed at this trio's output, and likewise deem it a golden age. I met both Ligeti and Lutoslawski, but unfortunately Schnittke's visit to the US to attend a 1985 festival featuring contemporary Soviet Music, at which I would have sought him out, was canceled by USSR authorities in retaliation for something that has since been long forgotten. Alas, Schnittke suffered the first of a series of increasingly severe strokes in the following year, after which his travel to the West became more and more untenable.


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## dzc4627

The 2nd Violin Concerto is kind of odd, as you can hear that it was written during the same musical period that his 1st Symphony was being conjured.

I do really like that Ligeti Horn Trio.

It is very cool that you were able to live in that era and meet those two composers, and even have the possibility of meeting Schnittke. He died one year or so before I was born. If it wasn't for that history of strokes in his family, he may still be alive today. Definitely a golden age. Kind of funny, how many of my favorite pieces of _classical_ music were written _after_ many favorite classic rock and rap songs. Hehe.


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## dzc4627

Klassic said:


> One of the most brilliant pieces of music I have ever heard in my entire life was composed by Schnittke: his *Concerto for Piano and Strings*. This is worth taking the time to learn, although I suspect many people on this thread have _long_ known about and appreciated this piece. The key to Schnittke is simply not to fight the dissonance but go with it!


It was this piece that got me into him in the first place. A friend had showed it to me. The rest is history :^)


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## elgar's ghost

Among the first works by Schnittke which I heard were the Viola Concerto (gripping), the Piano Quintet (harrowing, especially the ending), the Concerto for Piano & Strings (man, those clusters...), Sketches (playful grotesquery) and the Faust Cantata (macabre) - not a bad way to start and I was immediately attracted to his multi-faceted soundworld. Five or so years on my enthusiasm remains undiminished and now there are only a handful of key recorded works of his which I am missing, in particular Life With an Idiot and Peer Gynt where current prices are high.


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## MoonlightSonata

elgars ghost said:


> Among the first works by Schnittke which I heard were the Viola Concerto (gripping), the Piano Quintet (harrowing, especially the ending), the Concerto for Piano & Strings (man, those clusters...), Sketches (playful grotesquery) and the Faust Cantata (macabre) - not a bad way to start and I was immediately attracted to his multi-faceted soundworld. Five or so years on my enthusiasm remains undiminished and now there are only a handful of key recorded works of his which I am missing, in particular Life With an Idiot and Peer Gynt where current prices are high.


Have you heard the Concerto Grosso #1?


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## dzc4627

MoonlightSonata said:


> Have you heard the Concerto Grosso #1?


Definitely in my top 3 favorite pieces of music. Funny thing is, Schnittke never expected it to gain such popularity and just wrote it as a birthday present for a friend that commissioned it and performed it. It is so tragic and linear in its plot. I might even go as far to say that it is _the_Schnittke work.


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## PeterFromLA

Interesting fact about the Concerto Grosso #1 is that it is scored for the same instruments as Arvo Part's Tabula Rasa (adding harpsichord in the former), because the works were written for the same concert, with Schnittke at the (prepared) piano in both cases (with Kremer and Grindenko on violins, Eri Klas conducting the Tallinn Chamber Orchestra in the then Soviet Republic of Estonia). Arvo Part was very fond of Schnittke. I asked him about Mr. Schnittke at the Cabrillo Music Festival, shortly after the composer's first stroke, and he expressed great sadness about it; you could see the devastation on Mr. Part's face as he spoke. At that time Schnittke had yet to fully recover from the stroke, and Mr. Part described the possible disappearance of Schnittke's voice as a profound loss to music.

I saw Charles Wuorinen conduct Schnittke's Concerto Grosso #1 in 1985 (with the EIC's Maryvonne le Dizès in one of the violin parts; I forget the second violinist). It might just be the best performance I've ever witnessed of that piece. I remember not expecting much, but good ol' Charles really threw himself into the piece.


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## starthrower

elgars ghost said:


> Five or so years on my enthusiasm remains undiminished and now there are only a handful of key recorded works of his which I am missing, in particular Life With an Idiot and Peer Gynt where current prices are high.


The opera is a very twisted and dark work. And quite violent. I'll have to revisit Peer Gynt. There's a lot of music to absorb, but I remember enjoying much of it.

I still haven't listened much to the chamber works or violin concertos, and I haven't heard the 4th string quartet.


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## elgar's ghost

starthrower said:


> The opera is a very twisted and dark work. And quite violent. I'll have to revisit Peer Gynt. There's a lot of music to absorb, but I remember enjoying much of it.


It certainly is, I've seen a brief synopsis for it.

As regards _Peer Gynt_, I've only heard the epilogue which Schnittke arranged for cello, piano and tape and then published separately. It sounds quite spacey, as the subtitle "Out of the World" implies.


----------



## elgar's ghost

MoonlightSonata said:


> Have you heard the Concerto Grosso #1?


Yes, I have the BIS recording (with the Concerto for Oboe & Harp and the Concerto for Piano & Strings).


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## Guest

I've listened to all the symphonies several times now and obviously there's lots to enjoy. I think my favourite ones currently are 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8. 
0 sounds like a work by someone else; rather odd.
I can't say I'm enamoured of the jazz elements in 1; maybe it will grow on me.
9 is strange. The liner notes say his score was practically illegible, so however well the "reconstructers" knew Schnittke I wonder how much one can confidently say "this is a work by Schnittke" ?

Anyway, a great box set from BIS.


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## dzc4627

dogen said:


> I've listened to all the symphonies several times now and obviously there's lots to enjoy. I think my favourite ones currently are 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8.
> 0 sounds like a work by someone else; rather odd.
> I can't say I'm enamoured of the jazz elements in 1; maybe it will grow on me.
> 9 is strange. The liner notes say his score was practically illegible, so however well the "reconstructers" knew Schnittke I wonder how much one can confidently say "this is a work by Schnittke" ?
> 
> Anyway, a great box set from BIS.


Well, Schnittke went through a ton of change in his earlier years. Symphony 0 is a prime example of his very early style, and it is very much like his 1st violin concerto. The ninth is questionable, but I like it. The beginning is really great, and I like the last movement as well.

I honestly recommend listening to the Symphonies from the following recordings. They, to me, seem the best in performance and interpretation (Rozhdestvensky is generally the best conductor I think. He was a really good friend of Schnittke's and I think his connection really comes through) :

1- 



2- 



3- 



4- 



5- 



6- 



7- 



8- 



9- 




If you are looking for some re-listening and aren't completely against listening from Youtube videos, I highly recommend these as opposed to the BIS which I have listened to. Rozhdestvensky seems to get way more emotion out of it. More impact.


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## Guest

Thanks for all this input! I'll listen to them; I use YT quite a bit, together with free Spotify.


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## starthrower

dzc4627 said:


> Well, Schnittke went through a ton of change in his earlier years. Symphony 0 is a prime example of his very early style, and it is very much like his 1st violin concerto. The ninth is questionable, but I like it. The beginning is really great, and I like the last movement as well.
> 
> I honestly recommend listening to the Symphonies from the following recordings. They, to me, seem the best in performance and interpretation (Rozhdestvensky is generally the best conductor I think. He was a really good friend of Schnittke's and I think his connection really comes through) :
> 
> 1-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuhCVJqsjAQ
> 2-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riQZaPMb6bM
> 3-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V803Y_fxxk
> 4-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxtVEVafZTs&index=4&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4az8m2mdMM6ELHFuMVNbsMa
> 5-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh_vb7ZXUFw&list=PLMr5tJg-f8dxUzo-vF-CBi4G673s9fHoX
> 6-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JX7o4vqYTw&list=PLMpO-t4TzLsCd-2-qzvh-dAh9KdCWPh6S
> 7-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-QW75GsL7E
> 8-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGvEkmW9JPM&index=4&list=PLW0VECwuABj96_pWNYTToZoGcLgDg9-vH
> 9-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50PKicVwIjc
> 
> If you are looking for some re-listening and aren't completely against listening from Youtube videos, I highly recommend these as opposed to the BIS which I have listened to. Rozhdestvensky seems to get way more emotion out of it. More impact.


Too bad we can't click on any of those links.


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## dzc4627

starthrower said:


> Too bad we can't click on any of those links.


I think you are making a joke but just in case you aren't:

you can highlight them and copy and paste into the address


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## starthrower

dzc4627 said:


> I think you are making a joke but just in case you aren't:
> 
> you can highlight them and copy and paste into the address


I tried, but it's not working.


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## Mahlerian

starthrower said:


> I tried, but it's not working.


Maybe it'll work now? I modified the post.


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## starthrower

Mahlerian said:


> Maybe it'll work now? I modified the post.


That's better. Thanks!


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund

Schnittke is one of my absolute favorites. I was introduced to him when someone played his Viola concerto and my 1st recording was Concerto Grosso no. 1. Especially like his Piano concerto. Saw the Requiem live in Oslo too. Maybe it|s time to hear some more symphonies?!


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## dzc4627

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Schnittke is one of my absolute favorites. I was introduced to him when someone played his Viola concerto and my 1st recording was Concerto Grosso no. 1. Especially like his Piano concerto. Saw the Requiem live in Oslo too. Maybe it|s time to hear some more symphonies?!


Yup! Try these as I mentioned earlier:

1-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuhCVJqsjAQ
2-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riQZaPMb6bM
3-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V803Y_fxxk
4-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxtVEVafZTs&index=4&list=PLUSRfoOcUe4az8m2 mdMM6ELHFuMVNbsMa
5-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh_vb7ZXUFw&list=PLMr5tJg-f8dxUzo-vF-CBi4G673s9fHoX
6-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JX7o4vqYTw&list=PLMpO-t4TzLsCd-2-qzvh-dAh9KdCWPh6S
7-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-QW75GsL7E
8-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGvEkmW9JPM&index=4&list=PLW0VECwuABj96_pW NYTToZoGcLgDg9-vH
9-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50PKicVwIjc


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## Klassic

I'm pretty damn sure this fella Schnittke is gonna keep on crashing through. The 20th century saw so much wild innovation, much of this experimentation was just that, experimentation, but Schnittke (_and all those who can hear his music know exactly what I'm talking about_) learned how to control this wild innovation. He was not a mere experimenter, but like all the great composers that came before him, he had something to say.


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## dzc4627

Klassic said:


> I'm pretty damn sure this fella Schnittke is gonna keep on crashing through. The 20th century saw so much wild innovation, much of this experimentation was just that, experimentation, but Schnittke (_and all those who can hear his music know exactly what I'm talking about_) learned how to control this wild innovation. He was not a mere experimenter, but like all the great composers that came before him, he had something to say.


Totally agree. Not saying every artist needs to have a particular narrative or meaning, but if I had to pick any of the late late 20th century composers with something like that, it'd be him.


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## MoonlightSonata

I listened to the Requiem for the first time yesterday. Glorious!


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## Guest

Is the Viola Concerto considered his best work? Which work to start with? I'm only familiar with one of his string quartets.


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## violadude

DoReFaMi said:


> Is the Viola Concerto considered his best work? Which work to start with? I'm only familiar with one of his string quartets.


Which string quartet? and did you like it? And what did you like about it?


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## Guest

String Quartet #3 was played in a live performance. It incorporated the Grosse Fugue from Beethoven and I believe Shostakovich's motive, as well as a renaissance theme I think. I haven't taken the time to listen to the quartets in details but I loved the piece.


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## violadude

DoReFaMi said:


> String Quartet #3 was played in a live performance. It incorporated the Grosse Fugue from Beethoven and I believe Shostakovich's motive, as well as a renaissance theme I think. I haven't taken the time to listen to the quartets in details but I loved the piece.


Alright, try Concerto Grosso #1 or 2 and Symphony #3

Or if you're feeling really zany, listen to Symphony #1

These pieces are the pieces I know of by Schnittke that best embody his "including tons of references to lots of different types of music" type of polystylism.

You could also try the String Trio. It's a little more grim than any of the above pieces and its inclusion of various musical styles is a little more subtle. The Viola Concerto you mentioned earlier is written in a similar vein.


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## Guest

thank you! Will listen to it this week!


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## dzc4627

DoReFaMi said:


> thank you! Will listen to it this week!


I recommend this for the 3rd: 




and for the 1st:


----------



## joen_cph

DoReFaMi said:


> Is the Viola Concerto considered his best work? Which work to start with? I'm only familiar with one of his string quartets.


The viola concerto is a masterpiece, but a very dark one too. 
Maybe start with the Concerto Grosso no.1, for example in the Kremer/Grindenko/Rozhdestvensky recording.


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## Klassic

This is just my humble opinion, but I find Schnittke's Andante from Symphony No.0 to be one of the most beautiful things he ever wrote. Perhaps some knowledgeable Schnittkites can help me here... my understanding is that he did not like this work?


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## dzc4627

Klassic said:


> This is just my humble opinion, but I find Schnittke's Andante from Symphony No.0 to be one of the most beautiful things he ever wrote. Perhaps some knowledgeable Schnittkites can help me here... my understanding is that he did not like this work?


No he did not. His style at the time of writing it went through a ton of change through the 10 years before writing his 1st symphony, which was basically his huge entrance into the musical world work. Hence, why he called the 0 his "0th" Symphony. His 1st is a much more "Lookie here guys this is my first symphony!" sort of work considering how is output throughout the years really has, oddly, not much in common with things like the 0th Symphony/ 1st Violin Concerto. The 0 is also known for Schnittke wearing influences like Mahler and Shostakovich on his sleeve.


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## Klassic

I could care less at the end of the day if Schnittke said it was the worst piece in his entire catalog. I'm telling you, give the piece some time, let it sink in. Wonderful modern creation of music. Beautiful melody, intense climax. {by the way my friend, I'm not trying to be combative here, I appreciate your expertise on Schnittke, just saying I like, even if Schnittke didn't. I think he's wrong about his own music in this case. Wouldn't be the first time in classical music history}


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## dzc4627

Klassic said:


> I could care less at the end of the day if Schnittke said it was the worst piece in his entire catalog. I'm telling you, give the piece some time, let it sink in. Wonderful modern creation of music. Beautiful melody, intense climax. {by the way my friend, I'm not trying to be combative here, I appreciate your expertise on Schnittke, just saying I like, even if Schnittke didn't. I think he's wrong about his own music in this case. Wouldn't be the first time in classical music history}


Oh yeah it is an AWESOME work! It just happens to be completely different than anything he did in his more active years. The opening theme is very funny, I think. Going from the minor 3rd to the major 3rd always sounds funny, just like in the bassoon solo at the end of Shosty 10.


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## kartikeys

Klassic said:


> I'm pretty damn sure this fella Schnittke is gonna keep on crashing through. The 20th century saw so much wild innovation, much of this experimentation was just that, experimentation, but Schnittke (_and all those who can hear his music know exactly what I'm talking about_) learned how to control this wild innovation. He was not a mere experimenter, but like all the great composers that came before him, he had something to say.


_"The goal of my life is to unify serious music and light music, even if I break my neck in doing so" 
_
I am fond of him. I listened to his score for 'Story of an unknown actor'.
I wrote about him in my recent blog post.


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## PeterFromLA

Eri Klas, the noted Schnittke conductor, has passed away. RIP

http://slippedisc.com/2016/02/death-of-a-formidable-conductor/


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## Klassic

I wish I could find a better recording of Story of an Unknown Actor other than the one that's on youtube.


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## starthrower

Klassic said:


> I wish I could find a better recording of Story of an Unknown Actor other than the one that's on youtube.


http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Capriccio/C7196#listen


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## Klassic

starthrower said:


> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Capriccio/C7196#listen


......Much thanks!


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## PeterFromLA

A live performance of the Piano Quintet yesterday: boy, what a score! I've known the piece for 30 years, but I've never seen it live, and it's just remarkable heard as such.

It was difficult to not think, "masterpiece" as i listened to this incredibly compelling and poignant opus. The work is crafted to within an inch of its life, the entirety having an inexorable logic --notwithstanding its discordant and clashing elements -- that is really affecting during a live performance.

The piece was played at the Art Institute of Chicago by members of the Chicago Symphony, and judging by the reactions and comments of the audience members around me, none of them were familiar with the composer or his music. And yet, it was obvious from the beginning that they were intrigued: the haunting piano opening, evocative and disjointed both, just captures your attention, and the interplay between quartet and pianist is something you can't sleep through; the simultaneously elegant and bracing waltzes, the menacing turns that child-like tunes take, the allusions to half-remembered motifs from earlier in the piece as the quintet winds down, the sudden moment of calming warmth that emerges from within floes: this work is chamber music as theater.

Signs of boredom were nowhere in evidence: program booklets were not being browsed, eyes weren't closed to disguise somnolence. No: attention was riveted on the performers, in search of clues that would explain the mysterious memorial that was unfolding before our very ears. Unforgettable.

http://cso.org/ticketsandevents/production-details/aic-cso-chamber/art-institute-chamber2/?perfNo=7559


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## juliante

I have had a CD of his Concerto Grosso #1 waiting to be heard for 6 months, something kept putting me off. I have now had two listens through and am very happy i got round to it. Initially I was finding it a little bit too much on the scratchy violin front, but it all made sense on the second listen. The 5th movement (rondo) and the brief andante that is the 6th and final movement are really engaging movements and bring the work piece together, wonderfully offering small scraps of consonance to soothe my (albeit increasingly less) conservative ears. I will be exploring this composer more for sure. Love that spooky prepared piano sound!


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## JosefinaHW

Does anyone know why the Berlin Philharmonic has not performed any Schnittke? (at least none is available on the DCC)


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## JosefinaHW

Jeremy Marchant said:


> But my favourite Schnittke work is his _Choir concerto_ - a huge a capella work for chorus running nearly three quarters of an hour. The first movement, alone, at 17 minutes must be absolutely exhausting to sing. The style is completely straight - you'd never guess the composer - but it is absolutely wonderful music and shows an unimagined facet of the composer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (performance with score)


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## JosefinaHW

elgars ghost said:


> If anyone needs a complete list of Schnittke's output for reference purposes here's a link. Just a word of caution - my antivirus system is saying that the website isn't rated, but it's not giving it a warning symbol either. If any mods are wary please feel free to delete.
> 
> http://home.online.nl/ovar/schnopus.htm


:Elgars Ghost: You were even bitching about that website scanner back in June 2015??!!!!


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## Xenakiboy

Schnittke, like certain other composers (the one I'm named after for instance), I could ramble on for days about their music, cause I have a lot to say about them but for Schnittke I am reminded of how I have fond memories of the Concerto Grosso no 1, playing on an old ipod a few years ago as I walked into work. I used to walk on a track into my towns city area that was a bush by the water. Hearing that music in an environment where you hear birds, wind and cars, made me experience that piece possibly differently. But that piece resonances with me in a way I can't explain, but it means something special!

Enough sentimental Nostalgia :angel:

Also, if Schnittke ever played in my town, I would book tickets to every show, even if it's the same work. He's that Good!


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## JosefinaHW

brotagonist said:


> I want a few more, too! Unfortunately, there is not a huge selection. He seems to have fallen out of favour with record companies and existing albums are rather pricey. Luckily, I already have the SQs and a couple of Symphonies and Concerti Grossi, as well as the Ivashkin Cello album on Chandos


I have a strong suspicion that someone(s) is trying to cash in on Schnittke's popularity right now--just in the few weeks since I discovered his work with the _Concerto for Piano and Orchestra_ the price for my favorite recording of it that I heard on ClassicsOnline went from $25, then $52, then $350something and then dropped back down to $13 (that's what I paid)--I kid you not. Same thing is now going on with the biography by Ivashkin, two weeks ago it was approx. $25 now cheapest in US is $83. Amazon.UK has a 2 inexpensive copies but neither seller will ship to US..... games


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## JosefinaHW

Skilmarilion said:


> No-one for Kronos?
> 
> Their album has a remarkable arrangement of the equally remarkable second movement of the Choir Concerto.


Skilmarilion: love your signature.


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## JosefinaHW

Are there any videos of Schnittke performing any of his works?


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## JosefinaHW

Documentary that aired on the BBC in 1990, includes Alfred Schnittke and his brother speaking about their lives

_The Unreal World of Alfred Schnittke_ Three Parts


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## Xenakiboy

JosefinaHW said:


> Documentary that aired on the BBC in 1990, includes Alfred Schnittke and his brother speaking about their lives
> 
> _The Unreal World of Alfred Schnittke_ Three Parts


Glad you found it, I was going to suggest it to you :lol:


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## JosefinaHW

Xenakiboy said:


> Glad you found it, I was going to suggest it to you :lol:


 Thanks  ('not only amazing music--an amazing and inspiring man. I don't see a man beaten down to the ground from his mother's death and his strokes; 'wish I had the words...what would you say?.... so tender and compassionate towards the world but as solid as granite...

Documentary that aired on the BBC in 1990, includes Alfred Schnittke and his brother speaking about their lives

The Unreal World of Alfred Schnittke Three Parts


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## JosefinaHW

My third Schnittke CD arrived today:

_The Piano Concertos 1-3_, Ewa Kupiec, Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin
(with that marvelous photo of the lone figure on the Verazca Dam (I think it's the Verazca Dam.)
Still my favorite recording of the Concerto for Piano and Orchestra is Adam Kosmieja's on YouTube.


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## lextune

Just discovering Schnittke's glorious music.

Listened to two versions of his 1st Symphony in the last day.











Second one is a wonderful programming idea, with Haydn's Farewell Symphony preceding it.

Does anyone know if there are any other studio recordings of the piece? (Other than the first one I posted).

I can hardly believe how much I enjoyed Rozhdestvensky's recording. It ended and I started it over.


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## PeterFromLA

That Melodiya recording of Schnittke's First is the premiere recording, I believe. It's fantastic.

There was a recording of the work on bis which was quite good,especially in terms of the sonorities, but the Melodiya rules, in my book. Rozhdy was very associated with Schnittke's music, premiering many of his most famous pieces, including the First, which is dedicated to him. And then there is this quote by Schnittke himself: 
_
"I once calculated that there are now some forty compositions written for Rozhdestvensky-either derived from his ideas or else he was the first to conduct them. I could not believe it, but it really is so. I could even say that nearly all my own work as a composer depended on contact with him and on the many talks we had. It was in these talks that I conceived the idea for many of my compositions. I count that as one of the luckiest circumstances of my life."_


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## MusicSybarite

Lately I've been listening to his really impressive 2nd String Quartet, a firm favorite. Man, this is insane! It always surprises me. Its baleful beginning gives me chills, a scary feeling comes up my mind with it. The 2nd movement is perhaps my favorite in the work, such an evil, demonic utterance by anyone!! This is terrific stuff. The 3rd movement is also visceral, featuring a dramatic ostinato around the half of it. The 4th movement begins almost silent but is acquiring strength as it progresses, with some hopeful moments that are blurred by dissonant interruptions. It ends as the movement begins: with a kind of unstable resignation. This quartet is an indisputable masterpiece, a "barbarity" in the good sense of the word.


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## EdwardBast

MusicSybarite said:


> Lately I've been listening to his really impressive 2nd String Quartet, a firm favorite. Man, this is insane! It always surprises me. Its baleful beginning gives me chills, a scary feeling comes up my mind with it. The 2nd movement is perhaps my favorite in the work, such an evil, demonic utterance by anyone!! This is terrific stuff. The 3rd movement is also visceral, featuring a dramatic ostinato around the half of it. The 4th movement begins almost silent but is acquiring strength as it progresses, with some hopeful moments that are blurred by dissonant interruptions. It ends as the movement begins: with a kind of unstable resignation. This quartet is an indisputable masterpiece, a "barbarity" in the good sense of the word.


Just listened to it too. There is some (late) Beethoven allusion, in the second movement especially. I love the dirge section of the third movement. The whole thing is tightly unified with recurring themes - multiple flashbacks in the final pages.


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## Portamento

MusicSybarite said:


> Lately I've been listening to his really impressive 2nd String Quartet, a firm favorite. Man, this is insane! It always surprises me. Its baleful beginning gives me chills, a scary feeling comes up my mind with it. The 2nd movement is perhaps my favorite in the work, such an evil, demonic utterance by anyone!! This is terrific stuff. The 3rd movement is also visceral, featuring a dramatic ostinato around the half of it. The 4th movement begins almost silent but is acquiring strength as it progresses, with some hopeful moments that are blurred by dissonant interruptions. It ends as the movement begins: with a kind of unstable resignation. This quartet is an indisputable masterpiece, a "barbarity" in the good sense of the word.


Yeah, Schnittke is awesome. You can PM me if you're new to him and want recommendations.


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## MusicSybarite

Portamento said:


> Yeah, Schnittke is awesome. You can PM me if you're new to him and want recommendations.


I'm not new to this unique composer since I am familiar with a significant amount of his output, mostly orchestral and chamber compositions. For now, I'm looking forward to listening to some of his large works such as Peer Gynt, Life with an Idiot, and film music. Anyway, thanks!


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## R3PL4Y

I have been listening to quite a bit of his music lately. Really an amazing composer who deserves much more attention. I listened back through his fifth symphony today, a great work along with his other 8 symphonies. The second movement is actually a sort of elaboration on an early piano quintet by Mahler, of which he quotes the existing bars at the end.


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## Portamento

R3PL4Y said:


> I have been listening to quite a bit of his music lately. Really an amazing composer who deserves much more attention. I listened back through his fifth symphony today, a great work along with his other 8 symphonies. The second movement is actually a sort of elaboration on an early piano quintet by Mahler, of which he quotes the existing bars at the end.


Yes, the 2nd movement is based on Mahler's Piano Quartet and an orchestration of Schnittke's own Piano Quartet. Amazing work.


----------



## herbertmasing

Dear forum members, I have been reading this forum for some time, but never posted before.

Can someone please help me identify the title of this composition by Schnittke?


----------



## Flutter

Geeze, been way too long since I last had him on my stereo. His more dissonant symphonies, string quartets and Choral works are his biggest achievements in my opinion.


----------



## paulbest

Nearly all his works are masterpieces. A few are a bit thin, near minimialism.(borders on dull), yet others are supreme masterworks
I am a Schnittkeian
Paul
New Orleans


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## Bwv 1080

An underrated piece


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## paulbest

Schnittke is indeed eclectic , full of surprises , unique , genius without boundaries, this high musical mind shows up in all his works. 
Great short piece,. This piece has Schoenbergian elements, don't you think?


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## paulbest

Here is a intro to Schnittke, for those who have not heard his music as yet.

This piece should really perk your interest. Very accessible and spectacular.


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## Guest

Am rather partial to his film music, ergo:


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## paulbest

Christabel said:


> Am rather partial to his film music, ergo:


That entire 2 cd set, is STUNNING< UNREAL, His film music is much greater than *just film music*. Major masterpieces all of them. Its a set on my wish list and will go there now to purchase.


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## flamencosketches

paulbest said:


> Here is a intro to Schnittke, for those who have not heard his music as yet.
> 
> This piece should really perk your interest. Very accessible and spectacular.


Thanks for that, I'll listen on the drive to work. I have been hearing a lot about Schnittke lately but have scarcely heard a note of his music.

Schnittke has probably the coolest tombstone of all time :lol:


----------



## flamencosketches

It's really good. Almost Shostakovian, no?


----------



## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> It's really good. Almost Shostakovian, no?


Shostakovich? No,

What I hear in this piece, is very strong influences, almost paying homage to some great American symphonists, Harria, Ruggles, all of them in fact.

Its like Schnittke took the very best themes from all great American early/mid 20th C composers and weaved a quilt of incredible beauty, based on the colors and fabrics he hears in the very best American composers.
UNREAL. 
Schnittke 's musical genius had no boundaries. He is unique among the unique. 
AS I always say, Schnittke is like unto Mozart, both stand alone. 
Their music defies any categorization, descriptions.


----------



## millionrainbows

Schtick seems to have captured the imagination of the Proletariat. He's the "Bob Seeger" of symphonists.

But a word of warning: Schnittke's early music shows the strong influence of Dmitri Shostakovich, but after the visit of the Italian composer Luigi Nono to the USSR, he took up the serial technique in works such as Music for Piano and Chamber Orchestra (1964).


----------



## philoctetes

Nah, try the Rzewski guestbook. Schnittke is more for the trippy Scriabin crowd.


----------



## millionrainbows

philoctetes said:


> Nah, try the Rzewski guestbook. Schnittke is more for the trippy Scriabin crowd.


Rzewski is too overtly political, almost Communist. When I said Schnittke was "the people's composer," I didn't mean fringe radicals, I meant common working people.

I haven't heard much Schnitke, but what I have heard is considerably less harmonically adventurous than Scriabin.


----------



## flamencosketches

That is funny. 4 recent posters and we all see totally different touchstones in Schnittke's work :lol:

I certainly don't hear anything of the American composers in this concerto, Paul, but I'm not too familiar with them beyond Copland, Ives, and Hohvanness. You don't hear any reminiscences of Shostakovich's piano concerti at all? I might like this Schnittke concerto even better than those of the older composer, but I hear the influence nonetheless.


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## philoctetes

Alfred and Dmitri meet in the afterlife










A very good CD....


----------



## paulbest

Well, there wasa ameriacn sym I heard some time ago on the radio,,and seemed to have the same textures as Schnittke's masterpiece. Schnittke's work evokes to me personal, a summation of the ~~~american symphonic imagery~~~. Just me personally, not saying this as a objective statement of fact.

The work is unreal, gorgeous, just unreal. 
Not sure why it is not (may be?) in my collection yet.

Listen to this Roy Harris, as I say on a personal level, I hear both as similar emotional textures.


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## starthrower

Is that film music set on Capriccio any good or are there better performances? It's really the only area of his work I haven't explored.

I never thought of Schnittke as the Bob Seeger of composers. That doesn't sound very flattering.


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> Well, there wasa ameriacn sym I heard some time ago on the radio,,and seemed to have the same textures as Schnittke's masterpiece. Schnittke's work evokes to me personal, a summation of the ~~~american symphonic imagery~~~. Just me personally, not saying this as a objective statement of fact.
> 
> The work is unreal, gorgeous, just unreal.
> Not sure why it is not (may be?) in my collection yet.
> 
> Listen to this Roy Harris, as I say on a personal level, I hear both as similar emotional textures.


Paul, I suspect you must be tuned-in to music on a purely emotional, feeling level, and many of your musical reactions are intensely personal and hence, indemonstrable or explainable. On the other hand, these reactions to music may be virtually invisible to many listeners here. It's hard for me to see the Schnittke/Harris connection except in the vaguest emotional terms, but that may be due to the fact that I've been conditioned to suppress my emotions, as a male and as a 'productive citizen.'


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## flamencosketches

Hell no, from what little I know of Schnittke's music that comparison makes no sense. Maybe he's more of a Frank Zappa type?


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## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> Is that film music set on Capriccio any good or are there better performances? It's really the only area of his work I haven't explored.
> 
> I never thought of Schnittke as the Bob Seeger of composers. That doesn't sound very flattering.


Let me see if I can explain yourself. Does "unflattering" come from a preference to "high-art" rock like Genesis, rather than Bob Seeger?

That being said, Schnittke (early, it seems) seems to have an immediate appeal to all sorts of non-specialist listeners, worldwide. Just read the reactions & comments.

Paul Best likes him, and Paul is certainly no opera-obsessed, countertenor-loving Monteverdi-boy.


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## starthrower

He was an admirer of some of Zappa's work. The polystylistic works are fun, but there's much more to Schnittke than this aspect. I love his wild opera, Life With An Idiot, and his ambitious ballet score, Peer Gynt. His chamber and choral music is very moving as well.


----------



## starthrower

millionrainbows said:


> Why, because you don't like Bob Seeger, and prefer "high-art" rock like Genesis?
> 
> That being said, Schnittke (early, it seems) seems to have an immediate appeal to all sorts of non-specialist listeners, worldwide. Just read the reactions & comments.


I suppose from the wide appeal angle it could be used as a comparison. I never thought of Seeger's music as being very diverse, which is a Schnittke characteristic.


----------



## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> I suppose from the wide appeal angle it could be used as a comparison. I never thought of Seeger's music as being very diverse, which is a Schnittke characteristic.


I can see Schnittke being diverse because he went to serialism for a time, but other than that, his music and many film scores seem designed to do what music is normally expected to do: be delightful, entertaining, etc., which I'm not knocking...unless I'm wanting something "outside that big box."

What's the weirdest, most unusual Schnittke that you know of? I'll listen to it. It might be that I'd prefer only his serial works, but you know me, and my eclectic tastes, starthrower.


----------



## flamencosketches

Just for the record in case MillionR tries to spin this on me: I prefer Bob Seger's music over Frank Zappa and definitely over Genesis. I guess I see where you're coming from with the "everyman" angle, but I also don't hear Schnittke as that kind of composer. I think he's hardly accessible, though I guess his appeal is pretty direct.


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## millionrainbows

flamencosketches said:


> Just for the record in case MillionR tries to spin this on me: I prefer Bob Seger's music over Frank Zappa and definitely over Genesis. I guess I see where you're coming from with the "everyman" angle, but I also don't hear Schnittke as that kind of composer. I think he's hardly accessible, though I guess his appeal is pretty direct.


Wow, that is an unusual perspective to me. Give me some "weird" Schnittke, then.

I just thought that Schnittke's film music, the stuff with a clown, was getting enthusiastic responses from people who didn't appear to be snobs, they just "know what they like."


----------



## flamencosketches

Well, going off of that, do you think Zappa fans "appear to be snobs"? They fall more into the "knowing what they like" category in my book.

Genesis is a different story. I definitely don't hear Schnittke as a Peter Gabriel :lol:


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## philoctetes

Edit: Schnittke's American reference is Ives. They both like to shred whatever they are quoting.


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## starthrower

There are the wildly entertaining works but there's plenty of serious and brooding music as well. The Requiem, cello sonata, Symphonies 2 & 8. There some works I've yet to listen to including the violin concertos, except no.3 which I've listened to a couple times. And I mentioned his opera. And I haven't listened to the 4th quartet. One has to remember he composed many works while gravely ill and paralyzed from a massive stroke.


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## millionrainbows

flamencosketches said:


> Well, going off of that, do you think Zappa fans "appear to be snobs"? They fall more into the "knowing what they like" category in my book.
> 
> Genesis is a different story. I definitely don't hear Schnittke as a Peter Gabriel :lol:


By the same token, I see the typical Zappa fan as humming "Moving to Montana" or "Don't Eat the Yellow Snow" rather than "The Black Page" or "Dupree's Paradise."


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## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> There are the wildly entertaining works but there's plenty of serious and brooding music as well. The Requiem, cello sonata, Symphonies 2 & 8. There some works I've yet to listen to including the violin concertos, except no.3 which I've listened to a couple times. And I mentioned his opera. And I haven't listened to the 4th quartet. One has to remember he composed many works while gravely ill and paralyzed from a massive stroke.


Does that mean these works composed while gravely ill and paralyzed from a massive stroke will be "darker?" If so, Schnittke will lose the "partying" contingent. But I don't mean just "darker and brooding," but "outside the box" of normally engaging harmonic music.

Or is Schnittke merely running in the same lane as Shostakovich?


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## starthrower

I don't believe there is a typical Zappa fan. They are all over the map. Some of them take FZ's quotes and viewpoints too seriously. Zappa could be a bit narrow minded about certain things. He had a hostility and deeply cynical attitude towards many things that not all fans agree with. And listeners are very divided on the eras of Zappa music they prefer.


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## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> Paul, I suspect you must be tuned-in to music on a purely emotional, feeling level, and many of your musical reactions are intensely personal and hence, indemonstrable or explainable. On the other hand, these reactions to music may be virtually invisible to many listeners here. It's hard for me to see the Schnittke/Harris connection except in the vaguest emotional terms, but that may be due to the fact that I've been conditioned to suppress my emotions, as a male and as a 'productive citizen.'


This insight is correct, Since I have no musical training I have to completely lean on my inner ear,,which at times , especially in my early yrs, has led me astray. 
Now I am more focused.

What has been a new, my biggest revelation this past 2 months, was the discovery of modern 20th C opera, as a source of incredible masterpieces. Take Langgaard, I am not so fond of his symphonic music, but his opera Antichrist, is off the charts. 
Had I only considered his symphonic works, I may very well have passed up his Antichrist masterpiece.

Szymanowski's King roger, off the charts, But then I am very fond of any/all Szymanowski.
back to Schnittke. 
Yes, I somehow hear the idyllic American symphonic tradition in his early concerto. Not sure why,,it just is so. Someone just posted , perhaps it is the Ivesian connection. 
Perhaps, but harris,,,no wait, is there a Hanson American composer, yes I think that also may be the connecting link to my feeling toned experience. 
,,,Let me go to YT now, for Hanson symphonies....
Be back later today.


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## starthrower

Outside the normally engaging harmonic music wasn't anything new by Schnittke's time, so I don't really care about that. There's just something about his music that draws me into his world. As opossed to a composer like Prokofiev who was very talented but for the most part doesn't really move me with the exception of a few pieces.


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## paulbest

maybe some Hanson,,not sure on the Ives,,,Ives to me is more discordant,
The Schnittke offers softer Idyllic neo romanticism.


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## philoctetes

Sometimes I can recognize the genius in something without wanting to partake in large quantities. Zappa and Boulez share this quality of genius. Their common idol, Varese, probably my favorite of the three, I listen to him rarely too. It's a preservative measure. 

Wagner would be another genius I usually admire from a distance. On the other hand, if I "identify" on some extra-musical level with an artist, I might not stand so far away. Hence I hold Schubert more closely than Beethoven sometimes, for example...

As for Schnittke, I have gone through a couple phases of gluttony and consider CG#1 a classic. The one on Melodiya with Kremer the one to have, over the DG, but even the BIS is worthy coupled with a fine piano concerto. I think I need to explore more of Schnittke's choral music.


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## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> It's really good. Almost Shostakovian, no?


 I 'd say more Prokofievian, with hints to Prok's 1st PC..Remember Schnittke is the most eclectic composer, ever. 
His inspirations allow any /all previous composers works to enter and exit ,with stunning transcriptions. It comes and goes,,,you hear it and think,,,*I know that ,,but from where, who???*,,and its GONE, leaving you to wonder.

I hear the piano concerto as a collage ,. a conglomeration of many sources,,,yet it is his unique masterpiece. Schnittke is quite unlike a few mod composers,(Hohvanness) who borrow, but give back no *interest* (Pun intended). 
Schnittke borrows bits and redeems with a mountain of new ideas.


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## starthrower

I hear a lot Boulez in Zappa's synclavier music. I can only take this stuff in small doses. I prefer the music of Varese to Boulez, but that's just my personal taste for the sound and feeling of the music.


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## paulbest

starthrower said:


> I hear a lot Boulez in Zappa's synclavier music. I can only take this stuff in small doses. I prefer the music of Varese to Boulez, but that's just my personal taste for the sound and feeling of the music.


Varese was a significant 20TH C composer, who was a major influence on some mid 20TH C mod composers. I consider what Varese means to mid century mod composers, is what Beethoven meant to Germanic composers after him,,,.
I hear Carter as finishing what Varese did not get around to completing.

For me, Boulez is a great conductor.


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## philoctetes

Just to counter some of these hasty value judgments... per Hovhaness, the "no interest" return could be that his symphonies are often just arrangements in the old-fashioned concerto grosso style, and that he's not trying to "break" any traditions to be avant-garde, he is simply adapting native folk music to the classical music method.

For pure modal beauty of the kind that many Western composers shun, Hovhaness has a niche of his own. He is more than a symphonist for one thing, and hearing composers only as symphonists can confine one to a small box. As with Stravinsky some of the best recordings are those he made himself. There are many recordings of his piano music but nothing I've heard matches the one he made himself called Shalimar.

Hovhaness wasn't always traditional however, a number of his pieces have aleatoric passages not unlike Lutoslawski...


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## paulbest

Thanks for putting things into a clearer perspective. OK, grant it, more trad style vs say Henze, who also is neo romantic, yet with incredible new mod, unique inventive ideas. So the one is a rather a bore while the other is fantastic. 
Also I thought I may have heard Hovhaness borrow either from RVW and/or Sibelius, once or 2x's too often. ,,,with little developments.

I could be wrong,,or was it Per Norgard and Rautavaara and a few others in that era,w ho begged/borrowed and solte from the 2 great symphonists,with no interest pay back?
Can't recall. 

and in Czech masters 20Th C, I go for Szymanowski. 
But I will revisit Lutoslawski for the 3rd/4th time,,,maybe something has changed.....


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## starthrower

Szymanowski was Polish. Barber was considered a romantic. I feel like he wrote some wonderful pieces that are more significant for fans and musicians than anything Hanson wrote.


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## paulbest

starthrower said:


> Szymanowski was Polish. Barber was considered a romantic. I feel like he wrote some wonderful pieces that are more significant for fans and musicians than anything Hanson wrote.


 thanks for the kind correction

I will take a look at Barber today. Somehow his adagio got in the way of my going further into his works.


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## philoctetes

paulbest said:


> Thanks for putting things into a clearer perspective. OK, grant it, more trad style vs say Henze, who also is neo romantic, yet with incredible new mod, unique inventive ideas. So the one is a rather a bore while the other is fantastic.
> Also I thought I may have heard Hovhaness borrow either from RVW and/or Sibelius, once or 2x's too often. ,,,with little developments.


Hilarious... a few days ago I said something similar about Pettersson and it launched a chain of stern rebuttals.


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## Portamento

philoctetes said:


> Hovhaness wasn't always traditional however, a number of his pieces have aleatoric passages not unlike Lutoslawski...


Yup. _Symphony No. 19_, Op. 217 _Vishnu_ is a case in point (and this was written in 1966, much before some of Lutosławski's seminal works).



paulbest said:


> I will take a look at Barber today. Somehow his adagio got in the way of my going further into his works.


I feel the famous _Adagio_ has done a great disservice to Barber. His piano sonata and concerto are certainly masterpieces of the mid-20th century.


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## Larkenfield




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## paulbest

Portamento said:


> I feel the famous _Adagio_ has done a great disservice to Barber. His piano sonata and concerto are certainly masterpieces of the mid-20th century.


Had you not mentioned Barber's piano concerto,,,may have been some time til I made this discovery. Great call. 
Just after the 1st minute,,I thought to myself,,,*if this maintains the current level of writing,,i'm going tio,love this work..*.
and the masterful writing did continue onwards.

Your statement is poignant and convincing. Its like works from 2 different composers. had I heard the concerto on the radio, never ina million would have gussed it was from Samuel Barber..\
Now on to his piano sonatas, and some amazon purchases. btw Alsop's conducting is highly skilled and polished, in all her Naxos releases.

ohh this post should belong in Barber;'s room...Oh well, since Schnittke was polystylistic,,I'm sure he would have no issues with us chatting over a work from Barber. 
Schnittke, was the most fascinating of all the composers. He was gnostic, that is had spiritual visionary powers.


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## millionrainbows

The Schnittke Prelude is unsatisfying to me. His point seems to be a constant ambiguity of a major or minor tonality, and this is not pleasing to me. As far as his use of "collage" or pastiche, I find that to be a "post-modern" technique, which Paul Best is always deriding. To me, he's a post-modernist.


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## flamencosketches

paulbest said:


> Had you not mentioned Barber's piano concerto,,,may have been some time til I made this discovery. Great call.
> Just after the 1st minute,,I thought to myself,,,*if this maintains the current level of writing,,i'm going tio,love this work..*.
> and the masterful writing did continue onwards.
> 
> Your statement is poignant and convincing. Its like works from 2 different composers. had I heard the concerto on the radio, never ina million would have gussed it was from Samuel Barber..\
> Now on to his piano sonatas, and some amazon purchases. btw Alsop's conducting is highly skilled and polished, in all her Naxos releases.
> 
> ohh this post should belong in Barber;'s room...Oh well, since Schnittke was polystylistic,,I'm sure he would have no issues with us chatting over a work from Barber.


Agreed! I randomly found the Barber Piano Concerto on Naxos at a record store for $2. I've heard nothing of his but the Adagio (dislike the string orch. version, kind of like the original string quartet version) but the price piqued my interest. I really enjoyed it. Parts of it are almost Scriabinesque, particularly the writing for piano. I also agree that Ms. Alsop's conducting is excellent, as is the playing of the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, who must live in a Naxos recording studio in a basement somewhere. The soloist, Prutsman, is not half bad either. Never heard his name before in my life.

Sorry to clutter the Schnittke thread with Barber talk... I just got the Pacifica Quartet Shostakovich cycle and it includes a Schnittke quartet, his 3rd. I listened to and enjoyed the first movement. I like everything of Schnittke's that I've heard except his symphonies. His postmodern, ultra-eclectic style kind of grates on me at times.


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## Larkenfield

I find the Prelude an unusual duet. Somehow I feel it’s fitting that it’s somber. But it’s hard to nail the pitches exactly right and I’m still looking for other performances. I would expect the dissonances in tribute to Shostakovich because of the life he lived and I hear something greatly subtle and exquisite in them. There always seems to be some element of surprise or the unexpected in Schnittke’s works and for me his Prelude is another example of his desire to explore and experiment. The more I hear him, the more I like him and the Prelude was something that I just happened to come across by accident. Sometimes I think of him as The Reluctant Neoclassicist who puts new wine in an old bottle and somehow it works... He wanted to be of his time but he was too in love with the past to go all the way.


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## paulbest

well I spoke too soon, I RE-visited the Barber,,,I'll pass,
I mean next to Schnittke,,,,Barber sounds rather thin/pre-programed/lacks the un-expected elements. . . . 
Music Americana, I only go for Elliott Carter. He is the only classical Americana composer I recognize.


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## EdwardBast

millionrainbows said:


> The Schnittke Prelude is unsatisfying to me. His point seems to be a constant ambiguity of a major or minor tonality, and this is not pleasing to me. As far as his use of "collage" or pastiche, I find that to be a "post-modern" technique, which Paul Best is always deriding. To me, he's a post-modernist.


Did you notice the use of Shostakovich's signature motive? In typical Schnittke fashion it becomes clearer as the piece goes on. Since Schnittke often saves his source material for the end of a work (as with the tone row in the Concerto for Piano and Strings), it is might be interesting to see if D-Eb-C-B has a more clandestine influence in the early part. I frankly don't know what to make of this prelude yet.


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## Portamento

paulbest said:


> Music Americana, I only go for Elliott Carter. He is the only classical Americana composer I recognize.


You can pass on Barber, but what you don't get to do is deny that he existed. To say that you don't even recognize him as a classical composer is plain disrespectful.


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## paulbest

Portamento said:


> You can pass on Barber, but what you don't get to do is deny that he existed. To say that you don't even recognize him as a classical composer is plain disrespectful.


You are right,,,was lowdown of me. ,,,I think after having read a few YT comments , putting Carter down, I over-react and make foolish claims.

My bad.


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## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> The Schnittke Prelude is unsatisfying to me. His point seems to be a constant ambiguity of a major or minor tonality, and this is not pleasing to me. As far as his use of "collage" or pastiche, I find that to be a "post-modern" technique, which Paul Best is always deriding. To me, he's a post-modernist.


I had not heard this work. Indeed it is 100% post modern,,,I can't stand that piece. ,,,,I am re-evaluating some Schnittke. 
There are some of his works that are astounding, UNREAL, off-the-charts,,,Yet a few, I have some ,,reservations....
I recall having his Vc set with Kramer,,I sold it off. I just could not connect. 
Now I have to re-evaluate those concertos. 
Schnittke has a wide range of sounds. 
But agree at times he is , post modern.. Schnittke is unlike any composer I know, complex and not easy to make a final rash call.


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## paulbest

For instance.
how would you tag/label this work?
which category would we place this?

My opinion is , there are none.
This work defies any categorization, labels, tags.

Schnittke shatters, destroys and then makes new music which has never been imagined, nor can be copied, nor learned by other composers.

Sure, its not your average romantic style sonata,, and which modern work can we compare this sonata with?

Its a level of creative genius which breaks all barriers, all categorizations.
If you say, *post modern*,,I won't argue. I would say , late modern, which is neither here nor there as a category.


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## flamencosketches

Schnittke is the ultimate Postmodern composer IMO. He is the poster child for the whole movement and exhibits all of its main qualities (eclecticism, pastiche, breakdown of structural coherence, etc).

To go back to Barber for a moment, I think you are being very rash with your judgment. To my ears, the piano concerto is almost Ravelian in its graceful balance of soloist and orchestra, as well as piano writing (if not orchestration). The harmonic language has more of a post-Romantic bent than Ravel's concerti, but those are the touchstones. Elliott Carter is not even remotely related to this work, so if that's what you're comparing it against you're going to be disappointed, I guess.


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## paulbest

Hi Flamenco
Yeah I was insensitive in my dearth, shallow comments on barber...There are undeniable modern elements with holding value in his works. 
I was just in a mood which pushed my buttons when certain sections arrived in some of Barber's pieces. 

I guess what has happened to me, is *the Henze experience*. 
His music has rocked my classical world. 
So things are not ever going to be the same with me. His music has altered my consciousness. 
Hope this short story allows me to escape and further condemnations , which are justified by you guys.


Barber wrote some fine music, and should not be discredited by anyone, especially one such as I, musical lacking EDU.

Whereas you guys have formal training, and many master the instruments. So never take anything I say for serious, in structural criticisms,,I do not know what I am talking about in the tech issues, I am a side liner, water boy member of the classical community.

Ultimate post modern..Well this may indeed have substance. take Rachmaninov;'s Vespers,,which I always thought to be the highest form of Russian liturgical chant, cast in a modern textures. 

Then comes along Schnittke's Russian spirituals,, cast in a even higher, more lofty renditions of the old orthodox chants. 
Rachmaninov Vespers would be modern versions, Schnittke then is post modern.


Shostakovich sq's high modernism, Schnittke's sq's high post modern. same for his solo piano, unlike anything modern., 
So yes, I completely agree with you, Schnittke is post modern. 

Glad you shared your ideas on Schnittke, often his music confronts me, and I am just blown away, never thinking,,is this modern , post modern, polystylistic,,Its just mind blowing and ends there.


,,,


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## flamencosketches

I'm new to Schnittke, so be fair warned that these are the observations of an outsider. So that has been my impression of him since before I'd ever heard a work of his in full. Indeed, genre/era/movement doesn't really apply all that much to his eclectic music, and I doubt he was ever sitting in his composing room thinking "how can I make this more postmodern...?", or modern, or whatever else. 

Don't sell yourself short, you have years (decades?) of listening experience and that's worth something. I have been a musician most of my life, but classical music is a new passion for me. So in a sense, longtime avid listeners who are non-musicians have a lot of perspective that I have yet to gain. And by the way, I also am no stranger to capricious tastes and I'm sure I have distastefully written off certain works, composers, artists, or whoever else when in an off mood, probably many times before. But I call it when I see it and I hope others do the same for me, to prevent me from making other similar lapses in judgment! Interesting note about Henze, and I'm sure just about all music sounds down right conservative compared to him (and Schnittke). 

One final note re: Barber, one reason I thought you might like his music is because I recently saw you talking good about Szymanowski, and the two composers remind me of one another.


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## paulbest

No man, you are further along the road of great classical music, than I will ever be. You have great insights, ideas and taste. 

I was always in poverty in these special possessions of aesthetics. 
You have these qualities and much more. 

You are ona bright path to make incredible discoveries in all eras, styles of classical music. 
takes no intuition on my part, its plain to see. 

You have a greater sense for all aspects of CM, displayed in all your lively, honest and fair minded postings.

With this sensitivity, you will continue to make progress in this fantastic realm of the high arts, and expect the subsequent transformations deep within, to manifest. 

You will make great contributions to the support of this great art form, its only a matter of time for you to fulfill this purpose. 

You are one of the chosen, few. 
God has you in His Sight.


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## flamencosketches

Damn! That means a lot. Lately, I do feel like music (classical music in particular, but not necessarily) has to be something of a calling for me in life, whether that means as a performer, educator, engineer, or otherwise, I want to spend a good part of my life in support of music. 

Anyway, I reiterate that you oughtn't sell yourself short, and you have a great deal of insight yourself. I have learned much from your posts and you've put me onto a lot of great music. A propos this thread, it would have taken me much longer to ever check out Schnittke were it not for your passionate enthusiasm for his music. It was a post of yours that led me to the first full work of his I listened to, the piano concerto, which clicked with me when none of the others I'd heard ever did. Anyway, keep it up and please stick around!


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## paulbest

If my health improves,,I'll be back,,otherwise, 
stay clean
focused
Pure as the music you love.
dangerous days
avoid all ideologies
You know Neitzsche has warned us all about the Christian variety,,,yet many have disregarded his wisdom and gone into the *churches* to their own peril, witness King Joel Osteen's scam/sham/fraud assembly,,,poor souls,,I know you are above such traps, 
Classical music needs good hearted folks like you, too far and few,,,there is a opportunities for you, just stay in faith, and it will come to you. 
Read your history books, read some Jung, avoid his religious crap. read some Plato,,,you'll do fine.

also read Schnittke's books at least his material for the non musician/tech side,,His tech books are out my range, you may find of interest though. 

, please make that a point, order from amazon. 
God Speed and Bless your paths. 
He is watching over you, stay clean minded, pure as the music you love. Do not fall for any temptations which ruin the soul. Be vigilant, , avoid Christian cult ethics, which is not living wisely, but stupidly. God will direct your paths, you will know to go right or left, or stay center. Stop or go forward,. Signs and symbols will reach you , just at the critical crossroads,,,,,or where the path up the mountain sems unapproachable,,,behold, a path will open up. 

Oasis will appear where there is only long stretches of hot sand,,,rains will come when the drought seems unbearable. 
Such are Gods ways of testing. 
Seek gnosis, faith will follow.
Shalom
Friend


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## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> If my health improves,,I'll be back,,otherwise,
> stay clean
> focused
> Pure as the music you love.
> dangerous days
> avoid all ideologies
> You know Neitzsche has warned us all about the Christian variety,,,yet many have disregarded his wisdom and gone into the *churches* to their own peril, witness King Joel Osteen's scam/sham/fraud assembly,,,poor souls,,I know you are above such traps,
> Classical music needs good hearted folks like you, too far and few,,,there is a opportunities for you, just stay in faith, and it will come to you.
> Read your history books, read some Jung, avoid his religious crap. read some Plato,,,you'll do fine.
> 
> also read Schnittke's books at least his material for the non musician/tech side,,His tech books are out my range, you may find of interest though.
> 
> , please make that a point, order from amazon.
> God Speed and Bless your paths.
> He is watching over you, stay clean minded, pure as the music you love. Do not fall for any temptations which ruin the soul. Be vigilant, , avoid Christian cult ethics, which is not living wisely, but stupidly. God will direct your paths, you will know to go right or left, or stay center. Stop or go forward,. Signs and symbols will reach you , just at the critical crossroads,,,,,or where the path up the mountain sems unapproachable,,,behold, a path will open up.
> 
> Oasis will appear where there is only long stretches of hot sand,,,rains will come when the drought seems unbearable.
> Such are Gods ways of testing.
> Seek gnosis, faith will follow.
> Shalom
> Friend


Good luck with the health thing. We want you here, especially if it rankles the "big dogs." :lol:


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## starthrower

Okay, we've received our sermon for the day and a plug for Amazon, back to the music of Schnittke...


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## millionrainbows

starthrower said:


> Okay, we've received our sermon for the day and a plug for Amazon, back to the music of Schnittke...


If you keep up that attitude, we won't send you a cracker & wine snack-pack combo, with free shipping. Or a T-shirt.








​


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## starthrower

EdwardBast said:


> Did you notice the use of Shostakovich's signature motive? In typical Schnittke fashion it becomes clearer as the piece goes on. Since Schnittke often saves his source material for the end of a work (as with the tone row in the Concerto for Piano and Strings), it is might be interesting to see if D-Eb-C-B has a more clandestine influence in the early part. I frankly don't know what to make of this prelude yet.


That's a very interesting point concerning the Shostakovich motif. This piece sounds richer and more meaningful to me after several listening sessions. The ambiguity Million mentions also makes sense after reading the short essay accompanying this upload with notation.


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## EdwardBast

flamencosketches said:


> Schnittke is the ultimate Postmodern composer IMO. He is the poster child for the whole movement and exhibits all of its main qualities (eclecticism, pastiche, *breakdown of structural coherence*, etc).


Hmmm. Definitely not the breakdown of structural coherence. In general, Schnittke was as concerned with intricate large-scale unity as any of his Russian forebears. The eclecticism and pastiche are there to be sure, but the way they are employed - so often with poignant expressiveness - strikes me as aesthetically more organic than the postmodern label seems to promise.


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## flamencosketches

EdwardBast said:


> Hmmm. Definitely not the breakdown of structural coherence. In general, Schnittke was as concerned with intricate large-scale unity as any of his Russian forebears. The eclecticism and pastiche are there to be sure, but the way they are employed - so often with poignant expressiveness - strikes me as aesthetically more organic than the postmodern label seems to promise.


Noted. Well, I haven't studied any of his works with any degree of seriousness, so I'll take your word on that. I guess his use of classical forms (concerto, symphony, even the Baroque concerto grosso) should have been evidence enough against the notion of structural incoherence. This is just going off of the impression I get that sometimes, it feels like he just drops a new idea in there out of nowhere, rolls with it for a bit, and then onto something else. But yet that can work inside of structural unity too.


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## PeterFromLA

I've always been fascinated by Schnittke's invocation of a demonic Paganini, especially as rendered by Gidon Kremer, though others have done a great job with it. I can't imagine how difficult this piece is to pull off.


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## EdwardBast

flamencosketches said:


> Noted. Well, I haven't studied any of his works with any degree of seriousness, so I'll take your word on that. I guess his use of classical forms (concerto, symphony, even the Baroque concerto grosso) should have been evidence enough against the notion of structural incoherence. This is just going off of the impression I get that sometimes, it feels like he just drops a new idea in there out of nowhere, rolls with it for a bit, and then onto something else. But yet that can work inside of structural unity too.


Some of the really coherent ones are just organized strangely. Like the 7th Symphony. It ends with a simple dirge, but that melody explains many details from earlier that seemed to come out of nowhere when they first appear. There are dissonant blasts in one of the earlier movements that turn out to be the dirge verticalized. And other material derives from it as well. Development first, theme later. He does this in the Concerto for Piano and Strings and that prelude for Shostakovich as well. And sometimes his variations and developments of themes, even when they are in the normal order, seem freakishly far afield from their sources.

But your initial impression could be correct too. I don't know all of his music and there might be many works that lack the kind of unity I'm describing. I'm just suggesting that what sounds disorganized on the surface might not be when one gives it a deeper look. But then, of course, it might!


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## paulbest

A Paganini
piece I don't care for at all.
AS much as I love much of Schnittke, a few of his pieces gets on my nerves. .
Flaminco mentioned Schnittke seems post modern, not modern. In this A paganini , I'd say its post modern.
No thank you.


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## flamencosketches

^That was definitely one of the pieces I had in mind when I wrote that. Bizarre stuff.


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## millionrainbows

So what's wrong with 'A Paganini?' You don't like solo violin played by a virtuoso? Is it the "name" Paganini, and the associations it brings? I listed to it, and harmonically it sounds no different than the rest of his music.


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## flamencosketches

Personally I’m not big on unaccompanied solo violin, outside of Bach. The timbre grates. When it’s a great virtuoso like Kremer I can deal, though.


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## paulbest

flamencosketches said:


> Personally I'm not big on unaccompanied solo violin, outside of Bach. The timbre grates. When it's a great virtuoso like Kremer I can deal, though.


Kremer is a great interpreter of Schnittke. Yet I have a hard time with the 4 VC's/Kremer.
I had that set yrs ago, and sold it off on the cheap. I may buy it again, not sure.
The A Paganini, is as per Flaminco
*grating*, 
There is nothing at all great about it, He could have penned it at anytime, anywhere, maybe when he had nothing better to do.
Its just a minimal piece and not at all interesting.

back to his major works, the 4 VC's...let me visit those right now over at YT,.....will report back later....I think there is also a BIS release of the VC's, anyone?


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## paulbest

1st VC, Excellent.
Now lets move on to VC #2


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## paulbest

VC #2, 
Definitely post modern
Listen to the 12th minute. Insane, just crazy stuff, Post modern, but it's the kind I like, Its rare I like post modern...actually I am anti-postmodernist. 
but as with every rule, there are exceptions.
Now we will love on to the 3rd VC


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## paulbest

The YT channel mentions this concert in Russia, celebrating Schnittke's music, the auditorium was packed , with standing room only. 
You see, the Russians take their very greatest composers, Shostakovich and Schnittke's music very seriously,,almost like neo-religious.

As the satte is a monster from hell, great music like Schnittke's, allows them to gather spiritual resources to bolster their desire to live ,,,just one more day.,...some light in a very dark tunnel. Succor in a terrible nightmare.

Suffering, allows the spirit to appreciate great art.
Now lHahn can surely perform all the easy concertos...
Lets see if she has the skills needed to bring off with success, Schnittke's 4 violin concertos.

This is the Q,

Prognosticating ahead, I just don;'t see it in her future.

I think she could manage the 4 vc;s, especially the 1st. But here in the 3rd,,she would be required to make gigantic sacrifices on her very busy schedule... I mean a violinist just can't work on this 3rd in spare time to make a success.

This is a great performance, its intregral with chamber and solist, everyone is in tune and in touch with the score.
Not sure how Kremer and BIS comes off, 
This performance is exceptional.

Shall we move to the 4th


----------



## paulbest

Crushing 4th.

Let Hahn continue with her Sibelius./
Here in this 4th, it would crush her.
She is great, only in the romantics,,,her Schoenberg is excellent. But in this super demandinf Schnittke and also Elliott Carter,,now she is challenged to the max.


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## PeterFromLA

Schnittke was a self-admitted poly-stylist (his term for post-modern, I suppose). If you can't deal with that, I don't know how you can "love" Schnittke, you'd have to wall yourself off from entire reams of his work. Personally, I love how mercurial the Paganini piece is. I also find it absorbing to listen to because of its constant head fakes. And the fact that it often seems like it's two or three violinists playing. Gripping work, but I guess you have to really love violin solos.

Speaking of violin solos, his cadenzas for the Beethoven Violin Concerto -- another piece I enjoy very much.

Viewed among his contemporaries, I can't think of anyone who wrote for stringed instruments as did Schnittke. Strings were always live wires for him, electric, dazzling, penetrating, and enveloping. The Third Violin Concerto, for me, is his best violin concerto. Its self-imposed limits of instrumentation (note the barren orchestra, as if the music is being played by a sad but valiant band of survivors), and its invocation of (Russian Orthodox) prayer, are striking, and I'm always gripped especially by the transcendent close. The long solo opening is reminiscent of the Paganini.

Schnittke shows up at the end of this performance of the Third (same one linked to by Paul Best).


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## millionrainbows

It IS rather touching to see Schnittke showing up at the end, to such adulation. Maybe Paul Best and PeterFromLA are right; he is under appreciated by most CM listeners here in the West.

There must be something "Russian" in Paul Best; perhaps he is like the suffering proletariat, living a solitary existence in New Orleans, in a cold-water flat, a piece of toast suspended by a coat hanger over a hot-plate...it's going to be cold tonight, better throw some more newspaper over myself...(a lone violin begins a plaintive melody...) :lol:


----------



## paulbest

Russia was a amazing place for CM. which country in the world, produced such genius in music,
Tchaikovsky, Scriabin, Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Schnittke. 
Add you own to complete the list.
Although Russia is called Mother land, she is a conglomeration of individual countries, to be fair.
Next in line is germany's genius in music. 
Russia is a very poor place on earth,,all they have is their old religion and music. 

They real;ze now, more than ever their inheritance in musical composers. So when Schnittke's music is at the town hall, they come from miles around,. Its a major event in their impoverished lives..
Here in the USA, a all Elliott Carter show may not have 1/2 the seats filled. 
In the living arts, Russia is more awake than the materialistic , commercialized pop culture of the USA. 
The Kagan concert was filled with people who absorbed every note of the music, and took it with them as they left, never to be forgotten. 


This same experience should be seen among American concert goers at a Elliott Carter program, ,,every note memorialized and memorized.


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> This same experience should be seen among American concert goers at a Elliott Carter program, ,,every note memorialized and memorized.


Maybe they should participate with their cell phones...


----------



## Woodduck

millionrainbows said:


> There must be something "Russian" in Paul Best; perhaps he is like the suffering proletariat, living a solitary existence in New Orleans, in a cold-water flat, a piece of toast suspended by a coat hanger over a hot-plate...it's going to be cold tonight, better throw some more newspaper over myself...(a lone violin begins a plaintive melody...) :lol:


Yeah... Conditions like that are bound to do something to a person.


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## NLAdriaan

millionrainbows said:


> It IS rather touching to see Schnittke showing up at the end, to such adulation. Maybe Paul Best and PeterFromLA are right; he is under appreciated by most CM listeners here in the West.
> 
> There must be something "Russian" in Paul Best; perhaps he is like the suffering proletariat, living a solitary existence in New Orleans, in a cold-water flat, a piece of toast suspended by a coat hanger over a hot-plate...it's going to be cold tonight, better throw some more newspaper over myself...(a lone violin begins a plaintive melody...) :lol:


How about some bottles of Vodka or in ghost town USA, some crystal meth, adds to the drama and completes the image we in Europe have.


----------



## joen_cph

Makes me think: are there are any well-known classical American composers continually expressing real distress, grief and disturbances? 

Can't think of any, only occasional excursions into those fields by some - whereas it's been the case with a few US painters and other artists.


----------



## NLAdriaan

joen_cph said:


> Makes me think: are there are any well-known classical American composers continually expressing real distress, grief and disturbances?
> 
> Can't think of any, only occasional excursions into those fields by some - whereas it's been the case with a few US painters and other artists.


I guess the grief and distress in American music can be found plenty in the places of America where it is heartfelt. You will hear it in 'black music' (if I may use that expression) like some Jazz, Blues, Soul and Hiphop. Also engaged artists like Tom Waits, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan and Neil Young come to mind.

Perhaps classical US music copies the European tradition, misses its roots and was adopted by privileged and academic environments, where grief and misery is too far away. The image of the current US classical music scene seems a bit like the European baroque, where composers and musicians were hired by the rich and famous (in those days royalty and nobility, now just $$$$$) to enjoy themselves. Heartfelt grief and misery does not entertain and will not make it to the sponsors dinner parties. The white audiences in the concert halls probably don't want to hear it.

Is there a lot of difference between a Soviet committee that would judge music for its patriotism and the board of sponsors of a US orchestra, deciding on which composer will be commissioned to write new music?


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## millionrainbows

_Are there are any well-known classical American composers continually expressing real distress, grief and disturbances?
_
John Adams, Doctor Atomic? Nixon in China? On the Transmigration of Souls? 
Glass, Koyannisquatsi?


----------



## EdwardBast

NLAdriaan said:


> Is there a lot of difference between a Soviet committee that would judge music for its patriotism and the board of sponsors of a US orchestra, deciding on which composer will be commissioned to write new music?


Well, in the US, those lucky enough to get a commission are not likely to be the subject of a purge and public recantation a year later. We humble them more humanely with polite indifference.


----------



## NLAdriaan

millionrainbows said:


> _Are there are any well-known classical American composers continually expressing real distress, grief and disturbances?
> _
> John Adams, Doctor Atomic? Nixon in China? On the Transmigration of Souls?
> Glass, Koyannisquatsi?


I give you John Adams, you're right. A lot of sadness in there.


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## mikeh375

If you want distress, grief and disturbance in an American symphony, look here....






A powerful work by Kernis.


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## paulbest

This is why I am drawn to Shostakovich, Schnittke, Pettersson. All three take into account the human tragedy in all this. 
Schnittke loves to paint the mix of emotional life, living in east germany and Russia. He puts into music the situation he and his friends suffered under.
Pettersson made it his life task to tell the story on man being brutalized by world governments, war and such evils.
This is why I am so committed to his music.
and which is why I so disdain post modern ism. 
Unless someone comes along and picks up where he left off, then i'll listen.


----------



## millionrainbows

Alfred Schnittke, Symphony No. 6 (1992). BBC National Orchestra of Wales. Tadaaki Otaka, conductor.

Happy happy joy joy. (Life is crap)

There must be something about Wales that makes it a good choice for the Eastern European darkness of Schnittke.

Stark, dark, and fully snarked. 









LATER EDIT: I got a hint of Carl Ruggles in the third movement. This means: dissonance for dissonance's sake, no system, just sound. But the orchestration and texture is thin enough to support these dissonances as harmonic entities, and gives them distinct character. But, like Ruggles, this gives a certain _pathos_ to the 'chords,' and this _pathos_ is what I recognized.

I like it in the dark. Night is better than the day. It's cooler.

Also for sheer darkness, I think I prefer Schnittke to Pettersson. Schnittke is less sentimental, less self-involved, is my impression.


----------



## paulbest

millionrainbows said:


> Alfred Schnittke, Symphony No. 6 (1992). BBC National Orchestra of Wales. Tadaaki Otaka, conductor.
> 
> Happy happy joy joy. (Life is crap)
> 
> There must be something about Wales that makes it a good choice for the Eastern European darkness of Schnittke.
> 
> Stark, dark, and fully snarked.
> 
> View attachment 120943
> 
> 
> LATER EDIT: I got a hint of Carl Ruggles in the third movement. This means: dissonance for dissonance's sake, no system, just sound. But the orchestration and texture is thin enough to support these dissonances as harmonic entities, and gives them distinct character. But, like Ruggles, this gives a certain _pathos_ to the 'chords,' and this _pathos_ is what I recognized.
> 
> I like it in the dark. Night is better than the day. It's cooler.
> 
> Also for sheer darkness, I think I prefer Schnittke to Pettersson. Schtick is less sentimental, less self-involved, is my impression.


Great, excellent , just wonderful post. 
fabulous

yes note BBC (Radio orch= always high quality), note also , Welch : skilled craftsman. Also note, The Welchlands do not have like 5 major orchestras, so to qualify for a spot on the BBC Welch, draws the best of the best from the Welchlands.

BIS is a great label, mostly 10/10 recordings.

Yes Ruggles, I also heard bits of the American composer in Schnittke.

I can understand how you chose Schnittke over Pettersson, I can understand. 
Its likeb this. How can this world actually have Mahlerites?
I mean Mahler's music does absolutely nothing for me. 
Whereas Bruckner at least under his Wagnerian influences speaks, depths.

...gotta run,,,more later...…………………….


----------



## millionrainbows

paulbest said:


> Great, excellent , just wonderful post.
> fabulous
> 
> yes note BBC (Radio orch= always high quality), note also , Welch : skilled craftsman. Also note, The Welchlands do not have like 5 major orchestras, so to qualify for a spot on the BBC Welch, draws the best of the best from the Welchlands.
> 
> BIS is a great label, mostly 10/10 recordings.
> 
> Yes Ruggles, I also heard bits of the American composer in Schnittke.
> 
> I can understand how you chose Schnittke over Pettersson, I can understand.
> Its likeb this. How can this world actually have Mahlerites?
> I mean Mahler's music does absolutely nothing for me.
> Whereas Bruckner at least under his Wagnerian influences speaks, depths.
> 
> ...gotta run,,,more later...…………………….


Also, Wales is a rather rocky, bleak place, or so I've heard. Yes, I like the "space" in Schnittke, the restraint in texture. Like Ruggles, also, it gives an "iconic" feel to the music.

Damn that autospell, it turned "Schnittke" into "Schtick"! Is it part of the conspiracy, too? :lol:

Etouffé!!!


----------



## paulbest

Schnittke at the time he haped upon Ruggles,a complete unknown American composer there is east germany,,,must had a friend who said to him 
*Hey I just picked up this audio tape cassette , has this composer Carl Ruggles, Sun trader and another cool work,,,* 
Schnittke must have loved that rare find and felt the music has somethings he wants to use in his 6th. 
no doubt. Schnittke was a master at borrowing and reshaping into new forms. 

Ruggles had like 2 *major hits*,,,like 15 minutes each. I've not heard either in a while, should pay a visit.


----------



## paulbest

Just arrived









Many of you Schnittkeians are asking
Why should I buy another trio/string quintet w piano,,as I already have 2 excellent perf's of each?
WEll I explain all the reasons why on my amazon comment.

Sure there are plenty available under $15,,,but with a small Canadian lable, who knows when this 2013 release will dry up,,and prices bumb over $20...why wait?
I have the Molinari's Schnittke's SQ's arriving any day..I also partly explain why I prefer this Molinari over the Kronos relase,,,though the Kronos is quite good, this Molinari group somehow manages to allow the soul/feeling/life aspect to always remain within the music.

And I believe this is what Schnittke wanted, yet could not write in to the score, it was left for the performers to figure out how to implement the delicate balance of the 2 opposing forces, The Iron hand Government, vs the life of the soul, ,,that of the hard/cold/harsh communistic environment which starkly faced everyone in east germany and Russia, yet music which reveals this battle, and music which allow the soul to survive this horror.
The Molinari intuitively grasp what Schnittke was hinting at in the score. Now this shows a level of artistry which matches the genius of the music itself. 
This is why both cds are must haves, no matter how many records of each is on your shelf.


----------



## flamencosketches

I'm really into this Pacifica Quartet recording of Schnittke's 3rd string quartet. It completely blew me away when I first heard it (the music itself, really, though the performance is also great). Thus I am planning on checking out Schnittke's other string quartets. I think I will go with the Molinari set, on your good word of them, Paul. 

But outside of that, I am really a neophyte to Schnittke's music. If anyone else can recommend a good CD to check out, I will try and go for it. I would really like to hear more.


----------



## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> I'm really into this Pacifica Quartet recording of Schnittke's 3rd string quartet. It completely blew me away when I first heard it (the music itself, really, though the performance is also great). Thus I am planning on checking out Schnittke's other string quartets. I think I will go with the Molinari set, on your good word of them, Paul.
> 
> But outside of that, I am really a neophyte to Schnittke's music. If anyone else can recommend a good CD to check out, I will try and go for it. I would really like to hear more.


Can't go wrong with the Piano Concerti. The early first Concerto may bring to mind Shostakovich, before Schnittke's weirdness takes over. The Violin and Cello Concerti are also worth while.


----------



## flamencosketches

Baron Scarpia said:


> Can't go wrong with the Piano Concerti. The early first Concerto may bring to mind Shostakovich, before Schnittke's weirdness takes over. The Violin and Cello Concerti are also worth while.


I've heard and loved one of them. It did remind me somewhat of Shostakovich. Do you have any recordings that you think stand out?


----------



## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> I've heard and loved one of them. It did remind me somewhat of Shostakovich. Do you have any recordings that you think stand out?


There is a release with all three from Ewa Kupiec that I liked, it may be hard to find.









I also remember liking a Concerto for two pianos (or piano four hands, I forget) on cpo.


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## flamencosketches

Awesome, Kupiec I think is the one I heard. I like Maria Lettberg too, she must play on the four hands concerto. Thanks.


----------



## joen_cph

paulbest said:


> Just arrived
> 
> View attachment 121698
> 
> 
> Many of you Schnittkeians are asking
> Why should I buy another trio/string quintet w piano,,as I already have 2 excellent perf's of each?
> WEll I explain all the reasons why on my amazon comment.
> 
> Sure there are plenty available under $15,,,but with a small Canadian lable, who knows when this 2013 release will dry up,,and prices bumb over $20...why wait?
> I have the Molinari's Schnittke's SQ's arriving any day..I also partly explain why I prefer this Molinari over the Kronos relase,,,though the Kronos is quite good, this Molinari group somehow manages to allow the soul/feeling/life aspect to always remain within the music.
> 
> And I believe this is what Schnittke wanted, yet could not write in to the score, it was left for the performers to figure out how to implement the delicate balance of the 2 opposing forces, The Iron hand Government, vs the life of the soul, ,,that of the hard/cold/harsh communistic environment which starkly faced everyone in east germany and Russia, yet music which reveals this battle, and music which allow the soul to survive this horror.
> The Molinari intuitively grasp what Schnittke was hinting at in the score. Now this shows a level of artistry which matches the genius of the music itself.
> This is why both cds are must haves, no matter how many records of each is on your shelf.


Their recording of the quartets is on my want list. Judging by the samples, it seems more melodic and warmer than Kronos and the Tale4 on BIS.


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## paulbest

joen_cph said:


> Their recording of the quartets is on my want list. Judging by the samples, it seems more melodic and warmer than Kronos and the Tale4 on BIS.


Your assessment of the samples is correct. More Melodic and not so edgy/prickly. 
I had the Kronos and tried many times to come around to their style. But it was no use,,,So I gave up on Schnittke's SQ.s Sold that set off for a loss. ,,,I see it goes cheap,,,,,apparently others are not so *enthused*, with Kronos ideas. 
As you know, Schnittke ain't easy, not at all.

I know Kronos has 5 star comments over at amazon,,I guess we are all looking for something dif in Schnittke. The Kronos record is valid, and expert,,,,if that is the form you prefer.

,,,for many yrs I went w/o a SQ set,,,now lately as I am finishing up my cd collection,,I thought I would give more research into other available records...and the Molinari popped up...I thought, well , not sure who this group is...but after some YT research, it dawned on me <Revelation> that the Molinari was what I was looking rfor all these yrs,,maybe like 10+ yrs of waiting.

The set arrived tomorrow.


----------



## paulbest

There is still some hope left for this world, Nota youth orch from the USA, neither from Russia, nor central EU,,but lil old ..Polish Youth Orchestra. 
Faultless, perfection, , 
you expect at least one performer to hit a sour note, tempo a bit off, something just out of place, , nada. 
The audience is weak on the applause , not sure why. Maybe the general public in that city is not familiar with Schnittke, perhaps Chopin is their main menu, and so not sure what to make of Schnittke. 
Schnittke is a modern composer, not post. . One of the last great composers within the classical tradition, beginning with Corelli and Vivaldi , Bach, Handel. 
Yes had to get that footnote in.


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## millionrainbows

Oh, yeah, that lucky dog Schnittke! To have virgins like that, sounding his music with their sweet breath...


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## starthrower

Sketches, for an inexpensive disc I recommend the cello concerto on Naxos. There is a very good piano concerto CD on the budget Apex label that I also recommend picking up. The soloist was a friend and colleague of Schnittke.

Piano concertos
https://www.amazon.com/Schnittke-Co...ic&sprefix=schnittke+piano,popular,151&sr=1-2

Cello concerto/sonata
https://www.amazon.com/Schnittke-Ce...+cello+concerto&qid=1565380104&s=music&sr=1-1

And the 3rd symphony.
https://www.amazon.com/Schnittke-Sy...e+symphony+no+3&qid=1565380196&s=music&sr=1-1


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Sketches, for an inexpensive disc I recommend the cello concerto on Naxos. There is a very good piano concerto CD on the budget Apex label that I also recommend picking up. The soloist was a friend and colleague of Schnittke's.


Thank you. Are you referring to this one?









I was looking at it at one point. It looks like the soloist is one Irina Schnittke. Any relation to the composer?

I'll look into that Naxos as well. Thanks. I'm listening to his third string quartet again now. A beautiful work.


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## starthrower

Yeah, I just added the links to my post. I think Irina is his sister playing on the 4 hands concerto. Viktoria Postnikova is the main soloist.

Here's a great chamber music disc. I bought a used copy several years ago. 3rd string quartet, piano quintet, and his arrangement of Mahler's piano quartet.
https://www.amazon.com/Schnittke-St...borodin+quartet&qid=1565380620&s=music&sr=1-2


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## flamencosketches

Awesome, thank you. Loved the little bit I heard of the cello concerto, so I went ahead and ordered that CD. I am terrible at exercising restraint, apparently. :lol: That piano concerto may be next. I've heard and enjoyed that work before too. But I'm going to wait for the price to come down first. I can't justify spending over $10 on a cheapo Apex CD with minimal to no liner notes.


----------



## starthrower

Yeah, you might want to check discogs. Apex are usually 6-7 dollars new. Amazon's prices seem very erratic lately. Super inflated on many items. Anyway that cello disc is a great recording so I hope you enjoy it.


----------



## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Yeah, you might want to check discogs. Apex are usually 6-7 dollars new. Amazon's prices seem very erratic lately. Super inflated on many items. Anyway that cello disc is a great recording so I hope you enjoy it.


Thanks again. Schnittke is a composer I've struggled with in the past, but I think it was a matter of finding the right recordings and the right works... he wrote so much music... and some of it really is good and original and worth checking out.


----------



## PeterFromLA

The Borodin Quartet CD is out of print, I'd grab it, its quite good, especially for the Mahler/Schnittke Quartet.


----------



## millionrainbows

PeterFromLA said:


> The Borodin Quartet CD is out of print, I'd grab it, its quite good, especially for the Mahler/Schnittke Quartet.


I've got it on order, Peter. I've always taken your recommendations.


----------



## PeterFromLA

Good to hear, million, I hope you enjoy it. The Borodin had a long association with Schnittke, dating back to when Schnittke was first emerging as a voice in the Soviet music scene-- they premiered his thorny First String Quartet (and also are recipients of its dedication): they were no Johnny come latelys, where AS was concerned. 

It's amusing to picture the very establishment Borodin Quartet performing this avant-garde work, the First SQ, immersed as it was in the sound world and techniques of Webern, Cage, and Ligeti, in the context of an assembly of state functionaries in Leningrad. The Borodin SQ were so mainstream they had even performed at Stalin's funeral!


----------



## millionrainbows

It arrived yesterday. I like the Piano Quintet the best. Suprbly recorded, and I like the pianist, who appears to be the daughter of one of the Borodin's.


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## millionrainbows

Schnittke, SQ 1, Kronos. Very good set to have.


----------



## PeterFromLA

The Kronos perform the entire cycle in one sitting, plus that string quartet arrangement drawn from the Choir Concerto, the poignant Collected Songs Where Every Verse is Filled with Grief:






I don't believe they've recorded Schnittke's final utterance, the pensive Variations for String Quartet, a piece I find sad but lovely:


----------



## millionrainbows

I admit to being a latecomer to Schnittke. Now, I fully appreciate him.


----------



## Larkenfield

millionrainbows said:


> Schnittke, SQ 1, Kronos. Very good set to have.
> 
> View attachment 123124


Fascinating photo. He reminds me of the Sphinx!


----------



## elgar's ghost

PeterFromLA said:


> _I don't believe they've recorded Schnittke's final utterance, the pensive Variations for String Quartet, a piece I find sad but lovely:_


If I'm not mistaken, that recording on youtube can be found on this disc, an interesting collection of five Schnittke rarities.


----------



## PeterFromLA

elgars ghost said:


> If I'm not mistaken, that recording on youtube can be found on this disc, an interesting collection of five Schnittke rarities.


Yeah, that's the same performance that's on youtube. I was referencing the Kronos Quartet: I don't believe they recorded the Variations (or even perform it?)


----------



## Blancrocher

Any fans of Schnittke's solo piano music? I listened to Schnittke's piano sonatas years ago and then never again. Upon my return to them now, however, I'm very absorbed. 

I listened to the Berman, Schirmer, and Smith cycles on Spotify. I bought Tchetuev's for the good reviews of the performance and sound. 

I also intend to get Feltsman's #1 (with Schubert's Reliquie); he had a close relationship to the composer and was the work's dedicatee.


----------



## Portamento

Blancrocher said:


> Any fans of Schnittke's solo piano music? I listened to Schnittke's piano sonatas years ago and then never again. Upon my return to them now, however, I'm very absorbed.
> 
> I listened to the Berman, Schirmer, and Smith cycles on Spotify. I bought Tchetuev's for the good reviews of the performance and sound.
> 
> I also intend to get Feltsman's #1 (with Schubert's Reliquie); he had a close relationship to the composer and was the work's dedicatee.


Yes! Tchetuev's is my favorite recording, but Berman is great too. Schnittke probably isn't at his best when writing for solo piano, but it's hard to tell that from the quality of the Piano Sonata No. 1, which treads the line between tonality and discordance to astounding effect. It's insane - every passage even remotely suggestive of tonality feels like such a huge relief. Sonatas No. 2 and 3 are maybe less good, but still worth hearing to ardent Schnittke fans like myself.


----------



## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Yeah, you might want to check discogs. Apex are usually 6-7 dollars new. Amazon's prices seem very erratic lately. Super inflated on many items. Anyway that cello disc is a great recording so I hope you enjoy it.


Well, I managed to get it for $6, brand new, so that's cool. Still have yet to listen to either concerto, but I do have high hopes.


----------



## millionrainbows

I've got to hand it to Daniel Hope, it's an adventurous program.









So _this _is "polystylism."


----------



## Subutai

A German Jew raised in the Soviet Union who converted to Russian Orthodoxy makes for a very interesting listen indeed. What's not to like?


----------



## brucknerian

I haven't listened to many of his works, but the Symphony No. 2 I find amazing and enthralling, not least due to its associations with Anton Bruckner (of whom I am a fanatic fan).

Listening to it again tonight (this time to the 1979 edition, which is more extensive), I was put into a mystical trance-like state.

The interplay between the chorus and the orchestra, the Bruckneresque broad climaxes and stair-step-like progressions, the Zen-like use of bells mimicking the church bells of Sankt Florian... all of these elements are combined masterfully, with a small number of moving and memorable primary themes, revealing a deep understanding of Bruckner's compositional modus-operandi, while retaining a strongly individual character (i.e. this is clearly Shnittke's style, not Bruckner's). This is unquestionably spiritual and contemplative music of the highest order.

Quote from Schnittke:


> I felt every moment there to be a link of the historical chain: all was multi-dimensional; the past represented a world of ever-present ghosts, and I was not a barbarian without any connections, but the conscious bearer of the task in my life.


This sense of multi-dimensional historical linkage is supremely evident in Symphony No. 2. Schnittke combines old elements in new ways, with a kind of contemporary integrity (i.e. definitely not Berio-ist collage).

If there was a film equivalent of this Symphony, I might think of Into Great Silence (2005).


----------



## Neo Romanza

brucknerian said:


> I haven't listened to many of his works, but the Symphony No. 2 I find amazing and enthralling, not least due to its associations with Anton Bruckner (of whom I am a fanatic fan).
> 
> Listening to it again tonight (this time to the 1979 edition, which is more extensive), I was put into a mystical trance-like state.
> 
> The interplay between the chorus and the orchestra, the Bruckneresque broad climaxes and stair-step-like progressions, the Zen-like use of bells mimicking the church bells of Sankt Florian... all of these elements are combined masterfully, with a small number of moving and memorable primary themes, revealing a deep understanding of Bruckner's compositional modus-operandi, while retaining a strongly individual character (i.e. this is clearly Shnittke's style, not Bruckner's). This is unquestionably spiritual and contemplative music of the highest order.
> 
> Quote from Schnittke:
> 
> This sense of multi-dimensional historical linkage is supremely evident in Symphony No. 2. Schnittke combines old elements in new ways, with a kind of contemporary integrity (i.e. definitely not Berio-ist collage).
> 
> If there was a film equivalent of this Symphony, I might think of Into Great Silence (2005).


I actually don't much care for this symphony, tbh. I find _Symphonies Nos. 3, 4, 5 & 8_ to be the best of them all. My problem with the 2nd is it doesn't really reward the listener the way so many of his other works do. It's plodding and heavy-handed.


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## EdwardBast

Neo Romanza said:


> I actually don't much care for this symphony, tbh. I find _Symphonies Nos. 3, 4, 5 & 8_ to be the best of them all. My problem with the 2nd is it doesn't really reward the listener the way so many of his other works do. It's plodding and heavy-handed.


Yeah, I've yet to warm to 2. I like 3 and 7 best, especially 3 for its amazing counterpoint, both in the traditional sense and in its counterpoint of styles.


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## Phil loves classical

I like his No.s 1, 5, 7, and 9. No. 5 seems to be the tightest to me, but No. 9 is my favourite, way more original than his symphony 8 before, I don't care what the critics say. There is no doubt Raskatov's version is faithful to the score to my ears, even though it is quite a big departure from his other symphonies.


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## Neo Romanza

Phil loves classical said:


> I like his No.s 1, 5, 7, and 9. No. 5 seems to be the tightest to me, but No. 9 is my favourite, way more original than his symphony 8 before, I don't care what the critics say. There is no doubt Raskatov's version is faithful to the score to my ears, even though it is quite a big departure from his other symphonies.


Schnittke disowned his 9th after he heard its premiere on the radio and I believe he was right to do so. It's not a convincing piece of music nor does it hold a candle to what he has previously achieved.


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## elgar's ghost

The 9th will always be a can of worms but I think Alexandr Raskatov did the best he could - and it took him over five years. I'm sure it must have been a massive improvement on what the dying Schnittke actually heard - a Frankenstein job hastily stitched together by Gennady Rozhdestvensky who presumably wanted to perform the 9th in some shape or form while his friend was still alive.


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## Phil loves classical

Neo Romanza said:


> Schnittke disowned his 9th after he heard its premiere on the radio and I believe he was right to do so. It's not a convincing piece of music nor does it hold a candle to what he has previously achieved.


He disowned the version that Rozhdesventsky did, which wasn't faithful to his score. I read somewhere Rozh actually quoted some other composers' work for his version. Of the 2 recordings available I found the one on BIS by Hughes way more engaging than the one by Davies, even with the subdued treble (which I fixed on my audio editor).


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## Neo Romanza

Phil loves classical said:


> He disowned the version that Rozhdesventsky did, which wasn't faithful to his score. I read somewhere Rozh actually quoted some other composers' work for his version. Of the 2 recordings available I found the one on BIS by Hughes way more engaging than the one by Davies, even with the subdued treble (which I fixed on my audio editor).


What program do you use an audio editor?


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## Phil loves classical

Neo Romanza said:


> What program do you use an audio editor?


Goldwave. I still feel the performance is too smooth and reverberent, but there is a bit more immediacy now. Hopefully there will be other recordings later.


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## elgar's ghost

Out of pure selfishness I would like to see a compilation where all six concerti grossi are put together in one set (with the possible exception of no. 4, as this is the same work as Symphony no.5). I have two of them, but buying the others would lead to duplication elsewhere which is something I would want to avoid.


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## HerbertNorman

I've had a week of listening to Alfred Schnittke's work , mostly concerti and chamber music. I knew the symphonies a bit better , but I will listen to a few of them this weekend.

His work has grown on me even more this week , I have to say. I understand people who are real fans of his work and I think he is yet another russian composer whom I really can relate to...


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