# Mozart's piano concertos



## Sonata

I'm really starting to enjoy some of Mozart's piano concertos....I love that particular genre anyway. I know 19-27 are considered among his best, and I have all of these except for 19. Which other Mozart piano concertos would you recommend?


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## kv466

Right off the bat the two that pop out are the e-flat concerto, kv271 and the a major concerto, kv414. Brendelfy is excellent for both as is Murray.

Another favorite is the b-flat, kv450.


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## poconoron

I very much enjoy all of the Mozart piano concertos from #9 onward to 27. They will all be worth your while.
The earlier ones I haven't found to be as enjoyable - to my ear, at least.


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## Vaneyes

Try the Anda set. Of the earlies, No. 9 is probably performed the most.


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## Vaneyes

Excuse, brainfart double-post.


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## kv466

Vaneyes said:


> Brainfart.


Haha,...I was wondering about that!


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## Olias

The G Major K453 (aka Number 17) is marvelous and a favorite of many. Here is a fantastic video of Bernstein performing as soloist and conductor:


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## Sonata

Heck..... I'm tempted to go for broke and get this whole set. We'll see.
http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-The-Pi...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1334281296&sr=1-1


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## kv466

Sonata said:


> Heck..... I'm tempted to go for broke and get this whole set. We'll see.
> http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-The-Pi...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1334281296&sr=1-1


Whatever pianist you choose, it's a great idea to get yourself a set of Mozart concertos!


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## poconoron

Sonata said:


> Heck..... I'm tempted to go for broke and get this whole set. We'll see.
> http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-The-Pi...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1334281296&sr=1-1


Go for it........great price and nice performances there. I have that one as well as Haebler and Ashkenazy.


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## Moira

I always think of them as piano competition pieces. I've heard them played very badly.


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## Jeremy Marchant

Moira said:


> I always think of them as piano competition pieces. I've heard them played very badly.


"The sonatas of Mozart are unique: too easy for children, too difficult for adults." (attrib Arthur Schnabel)


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## poconoron

Here is some background on the earlier piano concertos 1 through 8:

1-4 were written in 1767 by the child Mozart (11 years of age) and were the result of a series of assignments by his father Leopold: to take the materials of some keyboard works by other composers (C.P.E Bach and J.C. Bach included) and re-work them into concerto movements. As such, they are not original "Mozart material".

Concerto 5 (K175) was written in 1773 at 17 years of age and his his own real 1st Concerto. It is also well worth listening to and is considered a ground-breaking work in it's own early way.

Concertos 6-8 were written in 1776 at 20 years of age.......... and listening to them will prepare you for the astonishing breakthrough accomplishment of #9 - written just 1 year later.


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## TresPicos

I would definitely recommend concertos 12 and 17 - both on my Top 5 Mozart piano concertos list. 

I would have been happy if Mozart had only written five piano concertos, especially considering his short life span. The fact that he left us (and spoiled us rotten) with 27 concertos never ceases to amaze me.


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## tgtr0660

K466 is the best piano concerto of all. Enough said. 

Try Brendel, De LaRrocha or Ashkenazy for three quite different versions. All great.


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## poconoron

Since it is almost impossible for me to narrow down to a Top 5........... here's my Top 10 Mozart piano concertos (in random order):

#25 K503
#20 K466
#17 K453
#22 K482
#24 K491
#21 K467
#27 K595
#23 K488
#19 K459
#18 K456


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## UberB

Pretty much all of the Mozart piano concertos are great. Some of the earlier ones that stand out to me are 15 and 17.


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## DABTSAR

If I'm trying to familiarize myself more with them which interpreters would you guys recommend going to? I'd heard a few of the more famous ones with Lipatti and Horowitz on piano


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## gr8gunz

DABTSAR said:


> If I'm trying to familiarize myself more with them which interpreters would you guys recommend going to? I'd heard a few of the more famous ones with Lipatti and Horowitz on piano


Those are pretty old recordings. There is a great set of all the piano concertos with Daniel Barenboim and the English Chamber Orchestra. You might even take a look at the period instrument genre with Pieter Jan Belder on Harpsichord with Musica Amphon.

There are so many good ones out there to choose from but I think I would stick with the more recent recordings.:tiphat:


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## Kieran

I love the opening movement of the 21st ahead of all music ever composed. It's like he throws music about like confetti. It's like a bright sunny day that suddenly becomes cloudy, then threatens thunder before springing a rainbow on us. It has so much switches of pace and ideas that I never get tired of this, even after more than twenty years of listening...


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## Alydon

Try the Clifford Curzon set on Decca - you get nos, 20,23,24,26 & 27 - understated and immaculate playing and a timeless classic.

If you want period Mozart try and get hold of any of the Levin/Hogwood recordings - a very special insight.

A personal favourite has always been Bernstein playing no.15 coupled with the Linz symphony - or if possible believe you can get it coupled with Bernstein's superb account of no.17 - expensive, but worth every last £.


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## Polyphemus

DABTSAR said:


> If I'm trying to familiarize myself more with them which interpreters would you guys recommend going to? I'd heard a few of the more famous ones with Lipatti and Horowitz on piano


Try Uchida / English Chamber Orchestra /Tate on Philips, as a sampler get 20 and 21 delightful.


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## Hausmusik

My favorite interpreters of Mozart's piano concerti overall are:

Brendel, Marriner (my favorite interpreters of these works overall)
Uchida, Tate
Goode, Orpheus Chamber Orchestra

Also, I have enjoyed the chamber versions with Fumiko Shiraga.


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## NightHawk

All from 20-27, and:

_The Piano Concerto No. 9 "Jeunehomme" in E flat major, K. 271, written in Salzburg in 1777, when Mozart was 21 years old._ Wiki

The 'Jeunehomme' is the first of M's concertos which seems to leap ahead in his overall development. There is such great confidence and originality in this work.

More Wiki: _Alfred Brendel called it 'one of the greatest wonders of the world' (!)

and Alfred Einstein called it Mozart's 'Eroica'_ - though I think that remark gives several wrong impressions about the piece.


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## PlaySalieri

OK I will try to rank them by no, first is best - not an easy task:

23,20,17,24,25,9,21,27,15,13,12,11,26,14,16,8,5,6

If I wrote that ranking out tomorrow it would probably be different. 23 is so amazingly lovely - and the middle moevement is so deep - when people say Mozart is a light composer who can't write emotional movement I want to give them a good slap and sit them down to the second movement of this concerto. I got into Mozart through the concertos so good luck. My first ever CD was Gilels playing no 27 with the double concerto (no 10) coupled.


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## PlaySalieri

NightHawk said:


> All from 20-27, and:
> 
> _The Piano Concerto No. 9 "Jeunehomme" in E flat major, K. 271, written in Salzburg in 1777, when Mozart was 21 years old._ Wiki
> 
> The 'Jeunehomme' is the first of M's concertos which seems to leap ahead in his overall development. There is such great confidence and originality in this work.
> 
> More Wiki: _Alfred Brendel called it 'one of the greatest wonders of the world' (!)
> 
> and Alfred Einstein called it Mozart's 'Eroica'_ - though I think that remark gives several wrong impressions about the piece.


I know what Einstein means - it is the breathrough masterpiece - he had not written anything so stunningly original and masterful before - same with Beethoven's great symphony. I think he also considered that Mozart did not better that concerto.


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## BeatOven

I agree, I think his 21st altogether trumps his 20th!


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## BeatOven

BeatOven said:


> I agree, I think his 21st altogether trumps his 20th!


- In reference to Kieran's post.


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## PlaySalieri

BeatOven said:


> I agree, I think his 21st altogether trumps his 20th!


They are very different of course. It was k467 (21st) that got me into Mozart. The second movement is just a wonder of wonders. When I hear people say Mozart is not that original - I feel like shoving the second movement of K467 at them.


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## peeyaj

The tune of Elvira Madigan cannot get out in my head. Such sublime piece!


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## Vaneyes

A couple of honorable mentions. Shelley for 9 & 17. Moravec for 14, 23, 25.

View attachment 5481
View attachment 5482


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## poconoron

peeyaj said:


> The tune of Elvira Madigan cannot get out in my head. Such sublime piece!


And accomplished with such a paucity of notes!


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## Roberto

It is almost incredible that M wrote about 10 masterpieces amongst his piano concertos. Absolutely agree that the opening mvt of 21 is fabulous. I was obsessed with them for a long time and tried to play them all, and work out, to some extent, how he managed to create these works out of relatively simple elements. I found you could do that for parts of them, but in each of the great concertos he builds the music towards magical, sublime passages where he weaves the various themes and motifs and instruments together with such artistry and feeling, and grace, that one is transfixed. Part of the reason is a sudden piquancy or expressiveness in the harmony - the modulations, suspensions etc. Even though these very intense passages are quite short, they are astonishing and unforgettable climaxes. And the structure of the whole concerto is so superb that nothing is ever awkward or out of place. 

I would be interested in a good analytical book on the concertos if anyone knows of one - I've read one or two short ones, but they don't give enough depth and detail. These are great works, that achieve as much as many of the big romantic concertos, with greater delicacy and subtlety. They have that luminous and touching spirit and intelligence, which is Mozart's alone!


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## trazom

Is 10 the official number of masterpieces within his set of piano concertos? To me, #9 and the mature Vienna piano concertos (14-27) are all masterpieces: They all have so much content.


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## Kieran

trazom said:


> Is 10 the official number of masterpieces within his set of piano concertos? To me, #9 and the mature Vienna piano concertos (14-27) are all masterpieces: They all have so much content.


Concerto #10 for two pianos is a beauty too. I find myself dipping into his early concertos, such as #7 for 2 pianos, and enjoying them also. I think 'masterpiece' is a relativist term: #20 is a masterpiece, but so is #11, although it's a lesser one. For me, I enjoy them all. Not equally, obviously, but sometimes if I'm sated by the later ones, I love the purity and brilliance of the youthful ones, for a change. But #'s 9 and 10 have nothing to be embarrassed about, when stacked alongside his great mature concertos.

I also love the string quartet versions of - I think - 12-14, arranged by Mozart to try drum up some chump change...:tiphat:


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## Kieran

Roberto said:


> I would be interested in a good analytical book on the concertos if anyone knows of one - I've read one or two short ones, but they don't give enough depth and detail. These are great works, that achieve as much as many of the big romantic concertos, with greater delicacy and subtlety. They have that luminous and touching spirit and intelligence, which is Mozart's alone!


I haven't read either of these books, but they were recommended to me by people who know a lot about Mozart and his music:

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Piano-.../ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1339147259&sr=8-12#_

http://www.amazon.com/Mozarts-Piano...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339147627&sr=1-4

Zaslaw ia a particularly good writer on Mozart and he wrote a great analysis of the symphonies, too...:tiphat:


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## PlaySalieri

I think no 5 is a real cracker and M first real concerto I think


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## lilmoz

the best are the number 19 and 20,really great!


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## Jeremy Marchant

I'm pleased to find Cuthbert Girdlestone's book on the Mozart piano concertos is available second hand on Amazon









If the prose style is occasionally old-fashioned, well, it was written in 1940. It runs to 500pp, has copious music examples, and a level of technicality which most people on the forum will cope with, I'm sure. (I'm no academic theoretician and I struggle with technical musicological text, myself.) Absolutely invaluably, Girdlestone does not take the view that every note Mozart wrote was the work of a god and is inviolable. Whilst readily asserting that the concertos as a whole are a work of genius, he is never afraid to point out where Mozart falls short of the standards he set himself. The book is especially valuable in its discussion of the relationships between the works. For example, there's an interesting section discussing all the different ways Mozart chooses to start each concerto.

I strongly recommend it.


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## Roberto

Jeremy Marchant said:


> I'm pleased to find Cuthbert Girdlestone's book on the Mozart piano concertos is available second hand on ..............
> I strongly recommend it.


Ah... I've heard of this one but haven't found a copy of it - thanks very much, that's kind of you: I'm onto it and will report back at some point

Also thanks to Kieran for his suggestions which I'll look into as well.

Brilliant to have such quick replies to a question


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## Roberto

Kieran said:


> . For me, I enjoy them all. Not equally, obviously, but sometimes if I'm sated by the later ones, I love the purity and brilliance of the youthful ones, for a change.


yes so do I - in fact I was amazed when I first heard some of the early one: but am I right that some of them are not entirely original?


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## Roberto

Kieran said:


> I haven't read either of these books, but they were recommended to me by people who know a lot about Mozart and his music:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Piano-.../ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1339147259&sr=8-12#_
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mozarts-Piano...=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339147627&sr=1-4
> 
> Zaslaw ia a particularly good writer on Mozart and he wrote a great analysis of the symphonies, too...:tiphat:


many thanks Kieran - the Zaslaw is unfortunately expensive, but I will try to locate it in a library some time. The other I've ordered...


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## Kieran

I've ordered the other, too. The Mozartforum has a series of good articles by the indispensible Dennis Pajot, and book recommendations too.

Enjoy! :tiphat:


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## CDs

poconoron said:


> Here is some background on the earlier piano concertos 1 through 8:
> 
> 1-4 were written in 1767 by the child Mozart (11 years of age) and were the result of a series of assignments by his father Leopold: to take the materials of some keyboard works by other composers (C.P.E Bach and J.C. Bach included) and re-work them into concerto movements. As such, they are not original "Mozart material".
> 
> Concerto 5 (K175) was written in 1773 at 17 years of age and his his own real 1st Concerto. It is also well worth listening to and is considered a ground-breaking work in it's own early way.
> 
> Concertos 6-8 were written in 1776 at 20 years of age.......... and listening to them will prepare you for the astonishing breakthrough accomplishment of #9 - written just 1 year later.


Not sure if you'll ever see this *poconoron* but thanks for this information. 
I have had a complete set of Mozart Piano Concertos (Perahia) for quite a while but today I thought I'd really listen to his early concertos because like most I was only listening to his later works.
I honestly was expecting a pile of poop but was surprised by what I heard. Now I see Mozart had a little help from his dear ol' dad. Doesn't make me dislike the works but I like to know these sort of things.

Man do I love music! What a fun journey its been to continually discover and rediscover such amazing music.


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## poconoron

CDs said:


> Not sure if you'll ever see this *poconoron* but thanks for this information.
> I have had a complete set of Mozart Piano Concertos (Perahia) for quite a while but today I thought I'd really listen to his early concertos because like most I was only listening to his later works.
> I honestly was expecting a pile of poop but was surprised by what I heard. Now I see Mozart had a little help from his dear ol' dad. Doesn't make me dislike the works but I like to know these sort of things.
> 
> Man do I love music! What a fun journey its been to continually discover and rediscover such amazing music.


I'm glad you're enjoying the _amazing_ music...................


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## PlaySalieri

CDs said:


> Not sure if you'll ever see this *poconoron* but thanks for this information.
> I have had a complete set of Mozart Piano Concertos (Perahia) for quite a while but today I thought I'd really listen to his early concertos because like most I was only listening to his later works.
> I honestly was expecting a pile of poop but was surprised by what I heard. Now I see Mozart had a little help from his dear ol' dad. Doesn't make me dislike the works but I like to know these sort of things.
> 
> Man do I love music! What a fun journey its been to continually discover and rediscover such amazing music.


I think Mozart himself is responsible for PC 1-4 - by the age of 11 he already knew everything his father knew and there's no reason to believe Leopold helped him. They're not bad pieces but of course worth hearing once only.


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