# Is Mimi a Prostitute????



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I've been reading an old interview with Guiseppe di Stefano, and in it he makes the following statements....

_For di Stefano, La Bohème fails to reach the same level of sensuality (as Manon Lescaut), because Rodolfo and Mimì aren't really in love. "She's a prostitute, he's an intellectual, she falls ill, he doesn't even go looking for her in the hospital," says the tenor. "And once Mimì is dead, it's ciao, goodnight. At least Manon dies in the arms of Des Grieux."_

I suppose that one could interpret it that way, but personally I see these two characters quite differently. I think that Mimi is in fact an innocent girl and Rodolfo is probably her first boyfriend. He ends up leaving her not because of a lack of love on his part, but because (rather cowardly perhaps) she's very sick and he doesn't have the financial means to take care of her. Maybe she temporarily ends up in the arms of a rich guy, but not because she's a prostitute - let alone out of love, but because she doesn't have any other choice given the state of her health. But the fact that she comes back to Rodolfo to die proves her love for him.

How do you guys see the characters of Mimi and Rodolfo?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

...and of course, idiot that I am I spelled prostitute as prostitue in the thread title. I'm truly hopeless.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

No........she is a flower maker

I thought it was explained when Rodolpho and Mimi first meet and sit at the table introduce themselves and tell some background info, Mimi said she makes flowers for a living.

After initial "honeymoon" romance phase Rodolpho became tired of her constant needs (chronic illness) and drifts away like many real romances, don't see where the prostitute angle comes in. Rodolpho wants to move on and find a better situation for himself in the long term

Also I never understood that Mimi had another rich lover to take Rodolpho's place unless I missed something......she was just alone


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

DarkAngel said:


> No........she is a flower maker
> 
> I thought it was explained when Rodolpho and Mimi first meet and sit at the table introduce themselves and tell some background info, Mimi said she makes flowers for a living.
> 
> ...


I should check the libretto to know for sure, but I believe that while it's never said out loud, it's very briefly suggested in the opening duet of act four from Rodolfo and Marcello. Something about her being seen in a carriage with another guy...something like that. Be that as it may (or not) di Stefano's got it wrong in my opinion. I only hope that none of those Eurotrash producers are reading this forum. It might put even more wacky ideas into their heads than there already are. :lol:


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey, I think di Stefano was mixing things up. Violetta from La Traviata is the prostitute, not Mimi! And Manon, while not technically a prostitute, is an easy girl who falls for men with money. Not poor Mimi, dammit! (This is addressed to Giuseppe, not to you, LOL).


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Hey, I think di Stefano was mixing things up. Violetta from La Traviata is the prostitute, not Mimi! And Manon, while not technically a prostitute, is an easy girl who falls for men with money. Not poor Mimi, dammit! (This is addressed to Giuseppe, not to you, LOL).


That's the reason I posted this thread. Di Stefano's ideas just seemed weird to me, but I thought, "well, maybe I'm missing something.":lol: I'm glad you guys agree that I ain't.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> Hey, I think di Stefano was mixing things up.* Violetta from La Traviata is the prostitute*, not Mimi! And Manon, while not technically a prostitute, is an easy girl who falls for men with money. Not poor Mimi, dammit! (This is addressed to Giuseppe, not to you, LOL).


If you have a rich clientele then you are a *courtesan *


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> If you have a rich clientele then you are a *courtesan *


Yep. More specifically for the time, a demi-mondaine, since the demi-monde was the world in which these courtesans interacted with their rich patrons, it was a world in-between real high society and the plebeans.

These days we'd call Violetta an expensive call-girl.

By the way, when Verdi first heard the suggestion of setting to music La Dame aux Camelias, he rejected it, saying out lout (in these very words) that it wasn't proper to put a prostitute on the operatic stage in a leading role. But from his relationship with his second wife who had a less than reputable past, he changed his mind, and the fact that she was shunned by the society of provincial Busseto when they were living together without being married, prompted him to set to music a story that would show to everybody that a prostitute could have a good heart and be a good person.

I thank him for his change of mind, since La Traviata is my favorite Italian opera.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

There is a big difference between a courtesan and a call girl. As Almaviva says they courtesans lived in the demi-monde - which literally means the half-world. Like a parallel society to respectable one of married couples and their marriageable daughters that Germont père belongs. If a woman had sex out of welock and was discovered, that was that - no place in the bourgeoisie or haut monde for you. 

As for Mimì, we must not forget that in those days there were few outlets for women to earn a decent living, and if you got sick there was no benevolent welfare state to take care of you, and the alternative to hard graft was often prostitution. If you got a rich man to take care of you all the better. You just have to read Zola to see what a harsh society it was for lower-class women.

I think the comment di Stefano made says more about his conservative Italian attitudes to women than it does about La Bohème.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> ...and of course, idiot that I am I spelled prostitute as prostitue in the thread title. I'm truly hopeless.


Huh? It doesn't look like you misspelled _anything_. ()


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Huh? It doesn't look like you misspelled _anything_. ()


Easy fix when you get a super moderator on your side, right?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> There is a big difference between a courtesan and a call girl. As Almaviva says they courtesans lived in the demi-monde - which literally means the half-world. Like a parallel society to respectable one of married couples and their marriageable daughters that Germont père belongs. If a woman had sex out of welock and was discovered, that was that - no place in the bourgeoisie or haut monde for you.
> 
> As for Mimì, we must not forget that in those days there were few outlets for women to earn a decent living, and if you got sick there was no benevolent welfare state to take care of you, and the alternative to hard graft was often prostitution. If you got a rich man to take care of you all the better. You just have to read Zola to see what a harsh society it was for lower-class women.
> 
> I think the comment di Stefano made says more about his conservative Italian attitudes to women than it does about La Bohème.


Very well said, and about call girls, I misspoke, because Violetta was the kind that would have only one "sponsor" so to speak at a time, not accepting multiple assignments from different clients like a modern call girl. These demi-mondaines were set up by their rich patrons in a luxurious residence where they would throw parties, etc, and be the "property" of that sponsor. It is said that the wives in high society did not mind these arrangements because their husbands would then leave them alone and not require unpleasant "marital duties" that the younger and prettier demi-mondaines were willing to provide, for the "fee" of being hosted and fed and dressed up in those luxurious dwellings.

I think one remaining possible analogy in current times is Hugh Hefner and some of his "girlfriends" who live in his properties and use his credit cards.

Manon also becomes a demi-mondaine. Mimi, even if what was mentioned above is true (her being seen in a charriot with a rich gentleman - it's been a while since I last watched _La Bohème_ and while I don't recall this scene, it's perfectly possible that it is there and I just don't remember) - never really got into a demi-monde, she just wasn't part of that universe, in the opera.

As for judging Giuseppe di Stefano for some Italian conservative attitude against women, I'm not so sure, I don't know enough about his biography (other than his singing, his tours with Maria Callas, and his tragic death in Africa); and one would have to listen to the entire interview and get it in context. Not all Italians are mysoginistic (says this Italian-American man who calls himself Almaviva here... oops... I mean, my name is for Almaviva the wine, not Count Almaviva the womanizer).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> Not all Italians are mysoginistic (says this Italian-American man who calls himself Almaviva here... oops... I mean, my name is for Almaviva the wine, not Count Almaviva the womanizer).


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all Italian men are conservative - I lived there for a while in the 80s so I know that many of them are not, my inspirational boss being the best example of this. But some are, and it seemed to me that di Stefano's remark was possibly indicative of someone who divides women into the "madonna - mamma - puttana" kind of categories. But I don't know enough about him to judge.

Did wonder about your forum name....


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Huh? It doesn't look like you misspelled _anything_. ()


I guess I must have been dreaming. :lol:

Thanks for correcting it. :tiphat:


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> Also I never understood that Mimi had another rich lover to take Rodolpho's place unless I missed something......she was just alone


*Just to clear things up, Mimi did not have any other suitor/lover.......*

there was a line in act 3 outside tavern where Rodolpho tells Marcello he is breaking up with Mimi becuase she is a flirt, but when challenged by Marcello he admits the real truth

*Rodolfo* -- _(with bitter irony)_
Mimì is a minx, she
flirts with everyone.
A fop of a young Viscount
has only to make eyes at
her, and she provocatively
lifts her skirts and shows off
her ankle in a most promising way.

*Marcello*
Do I have to say it?
I don't think you are sincere.

*Rodolfo*
Alright then, no, I'm not.
In vain, in vain I try to hide my true torture.
Mimì means everything in the world
to me. I love her dearly, but I'm frightened,
I'm so very frightened!

Mimì is very sick!
Every day she wanes.
The poor little thing
is doomed to having no life!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Act IV

*Marcello:* I too saw...

*Rodolfo:* Musetta?

*Marcello:* Mimi

*Rodolfo:* (eagerly)You saw her? Oh fancy that!

*Marcello:* She was in a carriage, dressed like a queen.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Ohhhhhhh wait you maybe on to something, later in act IV when Mimi near death is carried into Rodolfo's apartment:

*Rodolfo*
Ah! my dearest Mimì,
always, always!

_(Gently he persuades Mimì to lie_
_down on the bed and covers her with_
_a blanket, then with great care slips_
_a pillow under her head)_

*Musetta*
_(Drawing the others aside,_
_she speaks in a quiet voice)_

I heard someone say that
*Mimì had left the Viscount,*
*and that she was dying.*
I didn't know where she was
living, so I searched, and searched...
At last I saw her pass by in the street.
Dragging herself along with difficulty,
she said to me: "I cannot hold out
any longer...I'm dying! I feel it"...
...Will you come with me, Musetta?...

_(Becoming agitated, she doesn't_
_realise that she has raised her voice_

Seems very unlikely in her near death cronic health condition that a wealthy person like a viscount would have an ongoing relationship with Mimi and she had moved away......but the way it is stated by Musetta sounds like that is the case


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Maybe he was a wealthy person with a heart. Unusual combination, but it's always possible.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Did wonder about your forum name....


I has to do with my lively soul...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> Maybe he was a wealthy person with a heart. Unusual combination, but it's always possible.


Yes, like me.

Kidding...


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> Seems very unlikely in her near death cronic health condition that a wealthy person like a viscount would have an ongoing relationship with Mimi and she had moved away......but the way it is stated by Musetta sounds like that is the case


Interesting. Another factor to complicate matters more - unlike at the time of La Traviata when the tuberculosis bacillus wasn't known, in La Bohème people know that tuberculosis is contagious. Would a viscount expose himself to this risk? I know, the librettist probably didn't go that far in thinking about this, it's just a curiosity... In La Bohème if I'm not mistaken there is some talk that people shouldn't get too close to her, while nothing like this happens in La Traviata.


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## BalloinMaschera (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't think Mimi is a prostitute in the Violetta or Guillietta vein...that said I have always thought that much of her coyness is feigned. She knows how to tease /manipulate her tenor, even if it not as overtly evident (vocally & dramaturgically) as Musetta and her baritone. It is Mimi who doesn't say no to Rodolfo's suggesting they return back home together after meeting his friends, during the Act I closing Duet, and it is she who delinieates the terms of their break up in act III.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

BalloinMaschera said:


> I don't think Mimi is a prostitute in the Violetta or Guillietta vein...that said I have always thought that much of her coyness is feigned. She knows how to tease /manipulate her tenor, even if it not as overtly evident (vocally & dramaturgically) as Musetta and her baritone. It is Mimi who doesn't say no to Rodolfo's suggesting they return back home together after meeting his friends, during the Act I closing Duet, and it is she who delinieates the terms of their break up in act III.


Welcome to the forum, BalloinMaschera!:tiphat:


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## BalloinMaschera (Apr 4, 2011)

Almaviva said:


> Welcome to the forum, BalloinMaschera!:tiphat:


Why, thank you, Conte!


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