# Knowing You'll Die



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

This is a question for atheists or people who otherwise believe that there is nothing after death, because I'm not looking for proselytising or alternative worldviews.

Do you often consider the fact that after however many decades, that's it, you're gone _forever_? Does this sit well with you? Do you care at all? Do you think it has any implications?

It's been preying on my mind lately. I'm not depressed, but I really, _really_ don't want to die.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

Piggy, you really scare me sometimes... You should pick up a hobby - I don't know, curling or something... Anything to get you out of that headspace of yours. Geez!

Two words: _death _and _taxes_. I need not say more.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

itywltmt said:


> Piggy, you really scare me sometimes... You should pick up a hobby - I don't know, curling or something... Anything to get you out of that headspace of yours. Geez!
> 
> Two words: _death _and _taxes_. I need not say more.


You're right, my head's a scary place. The problem is that no matter what I do or where I go, I can't escape it!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't mind the fact of death, though as long as my life is pleasant enough I'd like to put it off. 

My father died when I was a child, so the idea of death has been with me perhaps a little more closely than with many other people, and I think I've gotten relatively used to it. 

Truthfully, being really, really old scares me more than dying. I hope I don't spend the last years of my life semi-conscious in a hospital bed with a bunch of tubes, not knowing who is with me or what is happening around me, saying a bunch of nonsense. I sometimes think that, in order to avoid that fate, I'll just wander into the forest one day in my mid-70s, live on beans until I slip in the mud, and spend my last few minutes trying to beat back wolves with my walking stick. Or freezing to death some winter in the snow. Or whatever. It's not the prettiest picture, very unsanitary and all, but it's natural and much less humiliating. 

I don't know. We'll see what the technology is like by that time. 

Assuming, of course, that I make it that far, and that we still live in a free world where we can make choices like that for ourselves. May well be that the .001% decide that my costs outweigh my benefits sometime in my late 50s. I'm sure they'll be able to to away with me efficiently, cheaply and quickly.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

I could have understood this post _yesterday_:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/blue-monday-saddest-day-year-find-silver-lining-article-1.1007082

If I were you, I'd run to the video store *right now*, and have a _Cheech and Chong marathon_. You gotta smile, my friend! That scene with the girl sniffing Ajax still has me laugning my *** off!

His dad's chinese, and his mom's a waitress! There's nothing funnier!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Polednice said:


> You're right, my head's a scary place. The problem is that no matter what I do or where I go, I can't escape it!


I intend to try someday. I'm not a pharmacologist, but perhaps...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

BTW, something we all need to get through to ourselves is that the finiteness of life, its shortness, makes the time important.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

science said:


> BTW, something we all need to get through to ourselves is that the finiteness of life, its shortness, makes the time important.


That is true, and it consoles me, but the time we get is just soooooo tiny, it's not fair!


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

science said:


> BTW, something we all need to get through to ourselves is that the finiteness of life, its shortness, makes the time important.


Well said. Certainly, after my own parents passed away in 2002 and 2005, it forced me to accept that we are mortal...

I have a colleague who travelled with me to Calgary last week - turns out his Mother lives there - and they spent Wednesday evening... making her funeral arrangements. Her idea. This is the epitome of preparedness, and of thoughtfulness, really.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I second Science's prescription, little brother...don't be afraid and enjoy all you can.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2012)

Polednice said:


> This is a question for atheists or people who otherwise believe that there is nothing after death, because I'm not looking for proselytising or alternative worldviews.
> 
> Do you often consider the fact that after however many decades, that's it, you're gone _forever_? Does this sit well with you? Do you care at all? Do you think it has any implications?
> 
> It's been preying on my mind lately. I'm not depressed, but I really, _really_ don't want to die.


I call myself indeed an atheist and I am 84. No, it does not sit well with me in the sense that I'll never know for example how my wife and children and grandchildren will do. But ... this "not sitting well with me" I totally recognise as unavoidable. What also does not sit well with me is that our knowledge is fundamentally limited, that we can become aware of the boundaries of our knowledge and never can transcend them. Yet, with all this I am finding much to admire and enjoy, in my case especially in music. There is much to be happy about in this world and in this life. 
Once I am dead I don't feel anything. I am nothing. I won't suffer, I won't know I am dead. Contemplating what it will mean to me to be dead once I'm dead works truly liberating. You'll conclude that you can't even experience your own actual death, it will not frighten you because as long as you are frightened you are alive. Have you ever been under narcose of have you ever passed out suddenly? If so how did you feel while you were "out" ??


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I've been under a general anaesthetic a number of times and, of course, I sleep every day and I know what it felt like before I was born (nothing).

It's (edit: NOT!) the process of death or the actuality of death that gets to me, it's closer to what you said about not knowing how your children will do. I want to be around for longer; I want to experience more of the world; I want to spend more time with my loved ones; I want to see how our species develops. The human life span just isn't enough for me.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Just asking, Polednice, do you actually believe that there's nothing of any sort after death? After all, being the intelligent person you are, I doubt you'd take anything on pure faith. There must be some logical reasoning involved. Yet, for some reason, you speak of this matter with such certainty that it really astonishes me.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I've been under a general anaesthetic a number of times and, of course, I sleep every day and I know what it felt like before I was born (nothing).
> 
> It's the process of death or the actuality of death that gets to me, it's closer to what you said about not knowing how your children will do. I want to be around for longer; I want to experience more of the world; I want to spend more time with my loved ones; I want to see how our species develops. The human life span just isn't enough for me.


For me, inevitably limited knowledge is harder to accept than inevitably limited time.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Dodecaplex said:


> Just asking, Polednice, do you actually believe that there's nothing of any sort after death? After all, being the intelligent person you are, I doubt you'd take anything on pure faith. There must be some logical reasoning involved. Yet, for some reason, you speak of this matter with such certainty that it really astonishes me.


Maybe we should form a "naturalist" group and stop this kind of thing from happening. This thread is not meant to be a defense of Polednice's worldview or an attack on yours.

He explicitly said as much in the first post, and it is rude of you to disregard that. Start your own thread.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Sorry, I was just curious.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

I think we can pull out that Doris Day song for this, too. Or, "You're in good hands with Allstate Insurance."


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Dodecaplex said:


> Just asking, Polednice, do you actually believe that there's nothing of any sort after death? After all, being the intelligent person you are, I doubt you'd take anything on pure faith. There must be some logical reasoning involved. Yet, for some reason, you speak of this matter with such certainty that it really astonishes me.


I will entertain you briefly by saying that of course there are very few things (if anything) in this world that we can be certain of, but there is not one scrap of evidence ever witnessed by a member of our species that points to a life after death. I don't rule it out completely because then I'd have to claim some kind of revealed wisdom, but because the very notion of it in all of its manifestations in the history of our race has been devised as part of a baseless theological system or other superstition, I see no reason to give any thought to it.

The way I talk does not betray any fundamental certainty on my part, I'm just talking practically. If I were to consider every conceivable possible consequence of death, I would be dead before I had imagined them all. In the same way that I conduct my life as though there is no god because I do not need that hypothesis to explain the start of our universe, so I conduct my life as though there is no afterlife, as I do not need that hypothesis to explain the end of me.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Come to think of it, the idea of life after death is not inherently comforting: what we'd like is a continuation of at least some aspects of the life we have. But it could be rather different than that. If we take seriously all the hells and all their layers, we'd probably be quite pleased to have nonexistence instead. 

'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow. I just realized, if I get a tomb, I think that's what I want on it. "'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished." I used to think a memento mori would be good, but that's better.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Dodecaplex said:


> Just asking, Polednice, do you actually believe that there's nothing of any sort after death? After all, being the intelligent person you are, I doubt you'd take anything on pure faith. There must be some logical reasoning involved. Yet, for some reason, you speak of this matter with such certainty that it really astonishes me.


it seems paradoxical doesn't it... but from what we know on how the body works, and the lack evidence of an after-life, i don't see why anyone would believe in it. like the atheist view, the no-after-life view is more of a non-belief than a different belief.

plus i'll say it again, everyone likes to obsess over the after-life, but what about the before-life? to me this is a clear demonstration that intelligent beings want to hold to life by any means, and that believing in the after-life is only an artifact of life.

it only seems logical that the after-life is exactly the same as before you were born, ie. nothing. i just can't see it any other way, this is intuitive to me.

classic case of Occam's razor.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

When you die you dont just dissappear. Parts of you still survive in others. Genes.

But less mundane; you can leave impressions on the world around you. its up to you.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Although most people will never hear it, I imagine by the time I leave for parts unknown I'll have left a sizeable amount of music to the world, so my thoughts and feelings will hang around in that capacity. In my will, or personally, I'll ask a good friend (if I have any left to ask by then) to make sure that it all remains freely available to the public through as many mediums as possible.

I don't fear death itself, but the act of dying is not something I'm looking forward to, especially since my mind does not work properly and has determined that I will most definitely die alone even though I probably have quite a bit of time ahead of me yet. Still, if that does happen it's probably for the best, I've never been good at saying goodbye to people or anything.

So really I suppose it doesn't matter too much to me, though I would like to remain here for as long as possible.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> Maybe we should form a "naturalist" group and stop this kind of thing from happening. This thread is not meant to be a defense of Polednice's worldview or an attack on yours.
> 
> He explicitly said as much in the first post, and it is rude of you to disregard that. Start your own thread.


_Poley_'s certainty may be worthy of comment without letting that bugbear *RELIGION* into the thread, since it cannot derive from *SCIENTIFIC METHOD*.

There, doesn't that clear the air? Anyway, _Poley_'s dread of death is pretty common, no matter the citizen's expectation.

I submit that I don't dread death, it's the dying I am leery of. Plus, I haven't imparted all of my wisdom to my acolytes here, so I'd kind of like the skinny guy with the scythe to hold off for awhile.

:tiphat:


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2012)

Polednice said:


> You're right, my head's a scary place. The problem is that no matter what I do or where I go, I can't escape it!


Dear Piggy, now don't go curling, there is nothing wrong with your head and that it is sometimes a scary place, that is such a healthy sign of an awakening consciousness. You are becoming aware of your basic "situation", meaning: situation in the widest possible context and this context is everything, the cosmos, mankind, inner feeling, inner reasoning, life, death, etc etc yes everything. Your "existential situation" Who am I? What am I? What can I know? What can I do? 
Using your reasoning and capacity to know is the only way available. Your awareness shows you need philosophing, start reading philosophy, have courage to face reality and think it through. And I agree: it's the ***** this short existence!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I personally don't dread death as an idea. Sometimes I wouldn't mind it. Its safe, and if life ever becomes too unsafe, it'll be my ticket out.

But my basic instincts probably would feel otherwise in a dire situation, ha. Who knows.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Poley, maybe you should look up Ray Kurzweil. He's on a mission to overcome death. With his money, one could hardly blame him!


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Polednice said:


> That is true, and it consoles me, but the time we get is just soooooo tiny, it's not fair!


Why not write a substantial work? You're an English major, after all, and contributing to the academic world feels wonderful.


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## Yoshi (Jul 15, 2009)

Well I know how you feel. I am also certain that there is nothing after death and the thought of it is really scary. 
I think that if you have stuff you would like to do before you die you should do it now before it's too late. If you feel like you are acomplishing the things you wanted to, it might be better for you. Oh and surround yourself with happy/optimistic people, that can help to keep your mind away from it.

Whenever I'm feeling down because of those thoughts, I just watch a funny movie or something.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> _Poley_'s certainty may be worthy of comment without letting that bugbear *RELIGION* into the thread, since it cannot derive from *SCIENTIFIC METHOD*.


I'll reply in the other thread.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Weather permitting I'm flying to the good ole US of A tomorrow. If the plane gets into difficulties, like the wing falls off, & I know I'm going to die I'll plug myself into an opera & wack up the volume to max so my last moments will be spent doing something I love.

But what opera should I choose? 

(PS I don't think there's anything after death, but Poley, it's a cliché I know, but make the most of every moment, the good and the bad)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Polednice said:


> Do you often consider the fact that after however many decades, that's it, you're gone _forever_? Does this sit well with you? Do you care at all? Do you think it has any implications?


I will not be gone forever. I'm going to come back from the dead and ... do stuff maybe.


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## lou (Sep 7, 2011)

science said:


> I sometimes think that, in order to avoid that fate, I'll just wander into the forest one day in my mid-70s, live on beans until I slip in the mud, and spend my last few minutes trying to beat back wolves with my walking stick. Or freezing to death some winter in the snow. Or whatever.


Interestingly, I have this same fantasy. I like the back to nature aspect.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I will not be gone forever. I'm going to come back from the dead and ... do stuff maybe.


That's what the famous escape artist Harry Houdini said he would do, if he could. But so far as we know, he never did. From this, one might conclude that if the afterlife exists, it must be a very difficult place to get out of.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Fsharpmajor said:


> ComposerOfAvantGarde said:
> 
> 
> > I will not be gone forever. I'm going to come back from the dead and ... do stuff maybe.
> ...


He really said that? Wow what a coincidence.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Alright Harry, the jig is up. Posing as an Australian composer won't do you any favours now! Just get in the squad car nice and easy and no one will get hurt.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Alright Harry, the jig is up. Posing as an Australian composer won't do you any favours now! Just get in the squad car nice and easy and no one will get hurt.


And if I _don't_?.....


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> He really said that? Wow what a coincidence.


Who says it's a coincidence? If you *are* in fact Houdini, back on Earth in another body, you just need to prove it by explaining how you did all your escape tricks.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Who says it's a coincidence? If you *are* in fact Houdini, back on Earth in another body, you just need to explain how you did all your escape tricks.


I've forgotten how to do them. :lol:


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> And if I _don't_?.....


Then we'll have to bring in George, he can be very... persuasive.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> Then we'll have to bring in George, he can be very... persuasive.


Who is George?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

We'll ask the questions here, Harry.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> We'll ask the questions here, Harry.


I'm not Harry Houdini.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Knowing that I'll die doesn't freak me out as much or as often as knowing that people I love will die. I think this is because some part of me doesn't really believe the former, or just sees it as so far off that it's not worth worrying about, while I fully comprehend the latter and know from experience that it's true. I often worry about people I love dying, particularly without warning and/or by suicide. Bereavement is a baffling and terrifying thing and preys on my mind much more than does my own death.



science said:


> Wow. I just realized, if I get a tomb, I think that's what I want on it. "'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished." I used to think a memento mori would be good, but that's better.


I'd want:
"and all the while shall my heart be
with the bulge and nuzzle of the sea"
or maybe even the whole text of "when god lets my body be" (from which this is excerpted). It's one of the most beautiful, loving, comforting poems about death I know, another being Mary Oliver's "When Death Comes."


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

It is scary, and I try not to think about it. I'm young. I'll worry about death when I'm 60 or 70 - I've got too much to do until then.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Philip said:


> it seems paradoxical doesn't it... but from what we know on how the body works, and the lack evidence of an after-life, i don't see why anyone would believe in it. like the atheist view, the no-after-life view is more of a non-belief than a different belief.
> 
> _plus i'll say it again, everyone likes to obsess over the after-life, but what about the before-life? to me this is a clear demonstration that intelligent beings want to hold to life by any means, and that believing in the after-life is only an artifact of life.
> 
> ...


I think exactly the same


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