# Microtonal music



## Albert7

Still trying to figure out this concept but I gather that this is where the revolution in Western music starts?


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## norman bates

albertfallickwang said:


> Still trying to figure out this concept but I gather that this is where the revolution in Western music starts?
> 
> View attachment 64995


there are other threads on this argument (is there a competition between you and deprofundis to see who open more discussions?  )
http://www.talkclassical.com/30317-music-quarter-tones-other.html

Anyway I guess this one composed in 1558 by Guillaume Costeley is the first microtonal piece ever:


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## dgee

norman bates said:


> Anyway I guess this one composed in 1558 by Guillaume Costeley is the first microtonal piece ever:


I had no idea about this! Sounds sooooo weird pitch-wise - fascinating and a bit sea sick. Makes you think how equal vs just pitch are subtly moderated by "modern" musicians


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## Albert7

norman bates said:


> there are other threads on this argument (is there a competition between you and deprofundis to see who open more discussions?  )
> http://www.talkclassical.com/30317-music-quarter-tones-other.html
> 
> Anyway I guess this one composed in 1558 by Guillaume Costeley is the first microtonal piece ever:


Nice find on the old thread. It didn't show up in the music theory section so I didn't locate it easily but thanks for the back link.


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## millionrainbows

'"Microtonal" is a very general term. There are many possibilities for "microtones" to arise, from various systems.

Taking "equal temperaments," which means any equal division of the octave, of which our 12-note division is just one, a myriad of possibilities arise.

The Thai system is "7-tone ET," where the octave is divided into seven equal steps. Ironically, if one experiments with this scale, it begins sounding more "normal" like our 7-note diatonic scale. This is probably due to our listening habits and conditioning. But try it; when simple melodies are played, they are recognizable as their 12-note ET diatonic counterparts.

If you have an electronic keyboard or module, you can vary the keyboard voltage and create almost any ET scale, by re-tuning the octave. Good candidates for this are the Ensoniq ESQ-1, the Yamaha TX80Z, Yamaha DX7, and any tunable module. Simply re-tune it to a different octave.

For example, tuning C to its next out-of-octave G, and creating an octave, gives you 19-tone ET. To the next-higher G gives you 31-tone ET, and so on. Wherever you put your octave will give you that form of ET.

One of the best books on this is this one:


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## millionrainbows

This scale, "Beta," is discussed in the book above.

From WIK:
The β (beta) scale is a non-octave-repeating musical scale. In one version, it splits the perfect fifth (3/2) into eleven equal parts of 63.8 cents each.[citation needed] Another interpretation splits the perfect fourth into two equal parts, or eight equal parts of approximately 64 cents each. At 64 cents per step, this totals approximately 18.75 steps per octave. It may be derived from using 11:6 to approximate the interval 3:2/5:4, which equals 6:5 .

It was invented by and is a signature of Wendy Carlos and used on her album Beauty in the Beast (1986).

Although neither has an octave, one advantage to the beta scale over the alpha scale is that 15 steps, 957.494 cents, is a reasonable approximation to the seventh harmonic (7:4, 968.826 cents) though both have nice triads.
The delta scale may be regarded as the beta scale's reciprocal since it is, "as far 'down' the (0 3 6 9) circle from α as β is 'up.'"


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## Classicalophile

Is there a concept of "macrotonality". As in an octave divided into less than 12 parts, or 2 octaves divided into some parts (e.g. 25). To me microtonal music sounds bad, but I would be curious as to how "macrotonality" would work, and if it could achieve beauty.


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## arpeggio

*Harry Partch*

I should mention the music of Harry Partch.

There is a thread that is devoted to him: http://www.talkclassical.com/8960-harry-partch.html


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## Mahlerian

Classicalophile said:


> Is there a concept of "macrotonality". As in an octave divided into less than 12 parts, or 2 octaves divided into some parts (e.g. 25). *To me microtonal music sounds bad*, but I would be curious as to how "macrotonality" would work, and if it could achieve beauty.


You just have to retrain your ears.

I think some people have done things with 7-TET and such. Look around, see what you can find.


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## tortkis

Classicalophile said:


> Is there a concept of "macrotonality". As in an octave divided into less than 12 parts, or 2 octaves divided into some parts (e.g. 25). To me microtonal music sounds bad, but I would be curious as to how "macrotonality" would work, and if it could achieve beauty.


My understanding is that the possibilities of microtonality are infinite. People try many different tunings. Some sound weird (not necessarily bad to me), some sound beautiful. You can compare different tunings with Debussy's Arabesque No. 1 on *Chris Vaisvil's web site*. I think just intonation version is nice.


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## millionrainbows

Classicalophile said:


> Is there a concept of "macrotonality". As in an octave divided into less than 12 parts, or 2 octaves divided into some parts (e.g. 25). To me microtonal music sounds bad, but I would be curious as to how "macrotonality" would work, and if it could achieve beauty.


Any octave division of equal parts is considered an "equal temperament." This could be 2 through 11. The Thai system is 7, ours is 12.

There are scales which span two octaves before "coinciding" again with the starting pitch. Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales has some weird examples of this.

There could also be scales which do not divide the octave equally; I think the Pythagoran pentatonic (5 notes) is like that; it has different-sized whole and half steps.

See if you can find "The Just Intonation Primer," currently unavailable.

http://amzn.com/0972681000


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## Teruki Chan

*Request for Score*

Hello

I was wondering if anybody here has the score to Easley Blackwood's iconic _Fanfare in 19-Note Equal Tuning, Op.28a_.

I found an address from this link and it says I can obtain the score from that address. However, I have sent a letter to the address to request for the score but I still haven't gotten a reply after 2 months. As the content in the link is a transcript of the liner notes from his 1980 album _Microtonal Compositions_, I believe the address has since changed.

Since I could not find any other methods to obtain the score, I would appreciate it if you can let me know of an alternative method, or send me a copy at [email protected] if you have it.

Thank you very much!


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## millionrainbows

I'm going to have to get that Blackwood CD.


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