# I love me some Seventh Chords



## Sol Invictus (Sep 17, 2016)

Major, Minor, etc. What are your favorite uses of these chords in Classical?


----------



## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

Schubert - when he either changes dominant sevenths into German sixths or vice versa


----------



## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

The major 7th chords at the coda to Schumann’s Arabeske


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I've been listening to Sibelius's 5th symphony in connection with this thread Blind Comparison - Sibelius #5 and enjoying his frequent use of major 7th chords. Sometimes they resolve, sometimes they don't, but they're always piquant.


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I like Beethoven's use of diminished seventh chords, where he puts a new root under it and makes it a 7b9 dominant. This can be heard in the late String Quartet No. 16 in F, op. 135.

I must confess, part of the reason this sounds so "heavy" to me is because of the John Lennon song "Glass Onion." Flat-nines also appear in Strawberry Fields Forever, and I Want You (She's So Heavy).


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Vivaldi's sequence of fifth 7ths in Winter is always cool to hear. My first technical introduction to maj and min 7ths was through my jazz guitar learning. I've loved them ever since and in any context I find them. Suspensions (7-6) in early music always get to me too...oh yeah and the Beatles...nice MR, Bacharach, Jobim, etc. I'm also partial to Ravel's min9ths, but I suppose that's a different thread right?


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Plenty of examples in Bach's music, such as the end of the first prelude in the WTC which was recently mentioned in another thread, (whether or not one calls this a maj7 or a suspension is not really important, Bach knew the sound he was going for). And of course Ravel's supremely tasteful use of major 7ths and minor 9ths found throughout his music.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I like Satie's use of them in the first Gymnopedie, GMaj7 and DMaj7 back and forth. No progression, just color.


----------



## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

I guess I can't say it's a seventh chord, because it is actually an altered ninth, but it's this chord I'm totally intrigued by in Debussy's song Beau Soir. I've been listening to this song for a while, and still every time I get to that chord I can hardly get through the last thirty seconds of the song without putting my ear right to the laptop and replaying it. Of course, it's no surprise when Debussy makes interesting chromatic choices, so it's not that it's uncharacteristic for him, but still somehow this chord just feels so different from the rest of the song. It feels to me distinctly like someone cocking their head, or raising an eyebrow... like uncertainty. I guess it suits the lyric at this point decently, as this is the point where the speaker says "for we are going away, as this wave is going..." (chord, pause...) "it to the sea, we to the grave."

For a while I actually did not intend to dissect the chord and figure out what it was, because I was content just leaving it a mystery. I eventually gave in and broke it down, and it turns out it's a Bmaj9 chord with the fifth omitted, so B D# A C#.

It's really intriguing how when taken out of context, the chord can sound so different than in the context of the piece. When I hum the individual chord members of this chord to myself, it sounds "jazzy." Sensible, I guess, since it's a 9 chord, but always interesting how chords could sound so different depending on the context. Debussy was great at showing that.






This chord occurs right at 1:52 (Commenters pointed out that the singer here is actually Renee Fleming, btw, not Gsarci like the title states.)


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Don't know anything about Seventh Chords, but I do love Bill Evans's tune "Waltz for Debbie".









That _does_ qualify as classical music, I take it?


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Minor Sixthist said:


> For a while I actually did not intend to dissect the chord and figure out what it was, because I was content just leaving it a mystery. I eventually gave in and broke it down, and it turns out* it's a Bmaj9 chord *with the fifth omitted, so B D# A C#.
> 
> It's really intriguing how when taken out of context, the chord can sound so different than in the context of the piece. When I hum the individual chord members of this chord to myself, it sounds "jazzy." Sensible, I guess, since it's a 9 chord, but always interesting how chords could sound so different depending on the context. Debussy was great at showing that.
> 
> This chord occurs right at 1:52


I think that is just called a B9 chord. And Like many of the 7th chords it is also very common in blues, funk, pop, jazz etc. but yes, I agree, its interesting how exotic and different chords can sound depending on the context. All 9 chords (except 'add 9's), should qualify for this thread I think since a flat 7 is generally implied in them.


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

tdc said:


> All 9 chords (except 'add 9's), should qualify for this thread I think since a flat 7 is generally implied in them.


True enough with a 'B9' nomenclature. Let's also have a cheer for the 9ths with a maj7th below....yaaay. If memory serves correctly, the James Bond Theme ends on a minor chord with a maj.7th. (apparently the Bond theme was written on a beer coaster by Monty Norman in a boozer with John Barry....composers eh?).


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mikeh375 said:


> True enough with a 'B9' nomenclature. Let's also have a cheer for the 9ths with a maj7th below....yaaay. If memory serves correctly, the James Bond Theme ends on a minor chord with a maj.7th. (apparently the Bond theme was written on a beer coaster by Monty norman in a boozer with John Barry....composers eh?).


Nice one, I just tried playing an A minor9 chord substituting the flat7 for a maj7 on my guitar and it indeed sounds very James Bondish. Like a minor 9th with heightened suspense. What would the correct nomenclature for that chord be, Amin9maj7?

-7
-5
-5
-6
-7
-5

A,E,G#,C,B


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Yes, as you wrote or simply Am9maj7 perhaps.....In my day I played it barred on low a (6th str), e (a string), gsharp, c,e and finally b (4th finger, e string). Always liked that shape, is that what your tablature is saying? (I never learnt that nomenclature).


----------



## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

mikeh375 said:


> Yes, as you wrote or simply Am9maj7 perhaps.....In my day I played it barred on low a (6th str), e (d string), gsharp, c and finally b (4th finger, e string). Always liked that shape, is that what your tablature is saying? (I never learnt that nomenclature).


Yes that is the same shape, so the notes across all 6 strings low to high: A,E,G#,C,E,B

On piano it seems to sound just right playing the notes low to high: A,C,E,G#,B


----------



## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

tdc said:


> I think that is just called a B9 chord. And Like many of the 7th chords it is also very common in blues, funk, pop, jazz etc. but yes, I agree, its interesting how exotic and different chords can sound depending on the context. All 9 chords (except 'add 9's), should qualify for this thread I think since a flat 7 is generally implied in them.


Yes, in common usage Bmaj9 would have a major seventh (BD#F#A#), B9 (or B11 or B13) means a minor seventh. This chord is treated like a dominant, followed by an E major chord, but often in Debussy chords are not treated like they would be in traditional tonality


----------



## Minor Sixthist (Apr 21, 2017)

Bwv 1080 said:


> Yes, in common usage Bmaj9 would have a major seventh (BD#F#A#), B9 (or B11 or B13) means a minor seventh. This chord is treated like a dominant, followed by an E major chord, but often in Debussy chords are not treated like they would be in traditional tonality


Thanks for the explanation. I did see it expressed online as B9, but I must have been looking at images of something like a Dmaj7 and just mixed up notations. This chord is definitely treated as a dominant 7th (though omitting the 5th), and in the song, although Debussy does delay the resolution by several seconds for great effect, the next chord is the tonic E chord.


----------



## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Minor Sixthist said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I did see it expressed online as B9, but I must have been looking at images of something like a Dmaj7 and just mixed up notations. This chord is definitely treated as a dominant 7th (though omitting the 5th), and in the song, although Debussy does delay the resolution by several seconds for great effect, the next chord is the tonic E chord.


And 5ths are typically omitted with extended harmony, rarely will a Jazz musician play the 5th. Four note voicings are typical, even for 13th chords (root, third, seventh, thirteenth)


----------

