# What represents the peak of Beethoven's works to you?



## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

Inspired by flamencosketches' thread What represents the peak of Mozart's works to you? I decided to make this thread. For me it is Beethoven's hammerklavier sonata, which I feel has everything which defines Beethoven in it. What about you?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Just to clarify: Flamencosketches' thread asked for the genre that represents the peak. You ask for a single composition?

For a single composition: Symphony 6
For a genre: The string quartets

These are of course personal preferences.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Op. 130-133 the 13th String Quartet with the 'Grosse Fuge' finale, closely followed by op. 111: Pianosonate #32, especially the arietta, where he invented Jazz music.

In general, the 'late' Beethoven reached a peak almost no one ever did after Bach. Absolute music:angel:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

The premise here is that an Artist output improves as they age. Certainly for Beethoven one can make that case, but as much as I love the late Piano Sonatas, I’m not ready to agree that Op.111 is necessarily better than the Pathetique or the Tempest Sonatas, among others. And the late quartets are otherworldly, but can they be considered better than the Razumovsky? Does the Ninth Symphony, with it’s absence of Sonata Allegro form, best the previous Eight, or does it show Beethoven was moving in a new direction?


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Wellington's Victory, Op. 91.

It's the peak of something. I'm just not sure what.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Art Rock said:


> Just to clarify: Flamencosketches' thread asked for the genre that represents the peak. You ask for a single composition?
> 
> For a single composition: Symphony 6
> For a genre: The string quartets
> ...


Yes, exactly my thoughts. Symphony 6 is to me an amazing programmatic vision, one of my favorites by any composer, and I'm a fan of programmatic music. For most of my life I didn't appreciate Beethoven's string quartets, but recently I've come to appreciate them as the compositional wonders they are, and how excellent they are within that form.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Wellington's Victory, Op. 91.
> 
> It's the peak of something. I'm just not sure what.


I think it was his biggest earner! :lol:


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

For a single composition I'd go with his 9th Symphony - that one is immense and I love the choral part. Deciding which genre is a lot more difficult for me... I think it must be string quartets as well though his piano sonatas and symphonies are very close.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

As a genre, I would probably say the string quartets edge out the piano sonatas for that honor ever-so-slightly. As a composition the 9th symphony or Diabelli variations.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

9th Symphony. Kruetzer violin sonata. Violin Concerto. Appassionata, Les Adieux, Op. 109 sonatas.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Someone said it. Symphony 6.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Op.57, Op.101 piano sonatas, Op.59 No.1,2, Op.131 string quartets; fine masterpieces.



Triplets said:


> The premise here is that an Artist output improves as they age. Certainly for Beethoven one can make that case, but as much as I love the late Piano Sonatas, I'm not ready to agree that Op.111 is necessarily better than the Pathetique or the Tempest Sonatas, among others. And the late quartets are otherworldly, but can they be considered better than the Razumovsky? Does the Ninth Symphony, with it's absence of Sonata Allegro form, best the previous Eight, or does it show Beethoven was moving in a new direction?


David C F Wright regards Beethoven as the greatest composer of classical music, but doesn't hold a high opinion of the late works. (To people who keep saying DCFW is an idiot: I'm not using him as an authority on the subject, I'm just citing him as an example of a person who thinks Beethoven as the greatest composer but still doesn't think highly of the late works. And to me, he doesn't have "weirder opinions" than many of you.)

I don't have a "I-don't-know-why,-I-just-hate-it" attitude on composers and their music. As long as Beethoven has "consistent" musical ideas such as in Grosse Fuge and 9th symphony (the 1st movement and scherzo are magnificent), I'm pretty tolerant about his musical decisions.
The second movements of Op.132, Op.111 don't really strike me as powerful as his other masterpieces. The Op.111 second movement reminds me of the variations of Op.77 (in feel) to me. I can appreciate the dreamy ending though, but overall, it just doesn't feel "thoroughly-composed" as Op.101 to me.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

The piano sonatas. (period)


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

The late quartets
Piano sonatas 30, 31, 32


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

The absolute peak for me would be the Missa solemnis. Include also the last 5 piano sonatas, the last 5 string quartets and the 8th symphony, which I think is one of the "sunniest" things Beethoven wrote. And also symphonies 3 and 7.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The violin concerto, the 5th piano concerto, the 7th symphony, Lenore Overture no. 3.


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## TMHeimer (Dec 19, 2019)

I supposed it would be my favourite symphony, the 7th. Though the 3rd is my close second.


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## Gray Bean (May 13, 2020)

Symphony 3, Symphony 6, Symphony, 7, Symphony 9
Appassionata, Hammerklavier, Diabelli Variations
Piano Concerto 4
Final String Quartets, Grosse Fuge
Missa Solemnis


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## Caesura (Apr 5, 2020)

Genre: Symphonies
Work: Missa Solemnis


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

My overall favorites: all symphonies, the middle and late string quartets (including the _Grosse Fuge_), the _Missa Solemnis_ and the mass in C, the three last piano concertos, the triple and violin concertos, the _Choral_ fantasia, the oratorio _Christus am Ölberge_, the song cycle _An die ferne Geliebte_, the song _Adelaide_, the set of bagatelles from Op. 126, the opera _Fidelio_, the piano sonatas Nos. 8, 14, 17, 18, 21, 23, 26, 27 plus the late sonatas, the _Andante Favori_, all the cello sonatas, the violin sonata _Kreutzer_, the piano trios _Ghost_ and _Archduke_, the _Diabelli_ and _Eroica_ sets of variations, the overture _Die Weihe des Hauses_, the incidental music _König Stephan_ and _Die Ruinen von Athen_, and the Polonaise in C.

Current single favorite piece: _Choral_ symphony.
Current single favorite genre: tie between string quartets and symphonies.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Does there _need_ to be one peak?


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I agree with Consuono, and would add only the G major piano concerto.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

For me it's mountain ranges, not a peak or peaks. My favorite range is the piano sonatas and on any given day my favorite could be any one of sixteen or so.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

The symphonies
The late 4tets
Leonore Ov #3


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The final piano sonata, No. 32, in particular the 8 minutes' or so of right hand playing from the middle to end of the arietta - adagio molto semplice e cantabile. This more closely defines the late and deaf Beethoven and his desires to go beyond the limitations of musical instruments and forms and earthly existence than anything else I know from him. His Ninth Symphony stretched the limits of singers more greatly than anything else he wrote but nothing compares to the final piano sonata.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Is it possible to say one? People mentioning the Missa solemnis have reminded me of the violin part in the Benedictus, which is difficult to top. Listening to op.131 as I type this and maybe the opening fugue in that work...so incredibly pure it has me in tears.


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## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

It is the common answer, but I think the late string quartets really are the peak. ITo me the beginning of the String Quartet No. 12 is the pinnacle of euphoria, No. 14 is the pinnacle of langour and gloom, and so on. To me the Grosse Fuge is one of those extraordinary works of music that doesn't sound like it came from this planet and has no signals as to its time period, like Ligeti's Piano Concerto. Beethoven found something in his late quartets, but I don't know what. I also think it is interesting how they can baffle so many people. Even Henri Dutilleux said that he detested those late string quartets until he understood them late in life while writing _Ainsi la nuit._ But Symphony No. 7 and the piano sonatas 29-32 seem to me to be other great peaks.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Nobody mentioned the 5th... very disappointing


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Obviously difficult and highly subjective. In a great performance with great soloists, the Missa Solemnis


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Absolutely the piano sonatas. I think he was one of the great pianist-composers of all time! 

A couple of notches down from that is the string quartets. Then a couple of more steps down, the symphonies. I do very much enjoy Beethoven's concertos, but don't know if I rate them as a peak.


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I guess it depends on how one defines "peak". I only listen to it once in a while but in terms of structure, overall arc, expressive content, and new ideas, I personally think the C# minor quartet is (arguably) the most perfect piece he ever wrote. Although I admit I had to do several very intense score studies to "get it". Once you figure out what he's doing though, you just look at the score in awe and become speechless.

Having said that, I listen to the Violin Concerto, Symphonies, PC4, PC5, and the Opus 18 quartets WAY more.


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