# Debbie Voigt as Bruinhilde



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I'm watching her in the live Die Walkure from an old Met broadcast. I know many don't like her, but on TV she sounds fine and seems to have improved her acting a lot. Yes, she is not Nilsson or Flagstad, but she is very good in my opinion, just judging from watching her on TV. I do know the voice started falling apart not too many years after the weight loss, but here is still good, though she has lost the bloom she used to have at the top. I heard her in a live concert maybe 15 years ago after the weight loss and the voice was still large and beautiful BUT singing with a piano is not the same thing as a full Wagnerian orchestra. For those who heard her live when she first started doing Bruinhilde, what was the experience like in a house? Was it big enough? I always thought of her more as a junglische dramatic ( sp) than a full dramatic.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I look forward to watching _Walkure_ tomorrow. _Rheingold_ was generally good. Who was that superb Donner? His call to the mists provided the vocal thrill of the evening.

I agree that Voigt was never a _hochdramatische. _ In her later performances as Brunnhilde she sounded like an old woman.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Any ideas of how they kept Bruinhilde from sliding down the set when she was hanging upside down at the end??!! I am willing to bet that wasn't Voigt!!!!!!!! At the big part at the end she was ok but it was definitely not the voice she had when she was fat and singing Chrysothemis early in her career. The voice had much more roundness and bloom at the top then.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Any ideas of how they kept Bruinhilde from sliding down the set when she was hanging upside down at the end??!! I am willing to bet that wasn't Voigt!!!!!!!! At the big part at the end she was ok but it was definitely not the voice she had when she was fat and singing Chrysothemis early in her career. The voice had much more roundness and bloom at the top then.


It's not Voigt - she herself said she wouldn't do it, somewhere in an interview (I wish I could remember where i read or heard the information). I think you can tell even in the video that it's a petite woman. Her voice has changed drastically in my opinion. I heard her live in SF before the surgery in Strauss and Verdi. That creamy, gorgeous, hefty voice has changed to a more metallic, shallower sound and the color has also changed for the worst. It is now an unpleasant sounding voice. And smaller, too. I think with the other voice, she could've done justice to Bruenhilde. But no more.
That black dress has cost her plenty, more's the pity.

I don't mean that she was bad, artistically, in that old videocast. She was fine visually, and seemed confident and could just about get through it. But I think it was not effortless.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> It's not Voigt - she herself said she wouldn't do it, somewhere in an interview (I wish I could remember where i read or heard the information). I think you can tell even in the video that it's a petite woman. Her voice has changed drastically in my opinion. I heard her live in SF before the surgery in Strauss and Verdi. That creamy, gorgeous, hefty voice has changed to a more metallic, shallower sound and the color has also changed for the worst. It is now an unpleasant sounding voice. And smaller, too. I think with the other voice, she could've done justice to Bruenhilde. But no more.
> That black dress has cost her plenty, more's the pity.
> 
> I don't mean that she was bad, artistically, in that old videocast. She was fine visually, and seemed confident and could just about get through it. But I think it was not effortless.


I'm watching the Met's _Walkure_ right now. She sounds just as I remember from the broadcast. Awful. _Gotterdammerung_ is going to be a real ordeal for both of us.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I'm watching the Met's _Walkure_ right now. She sounds just as I remember from the broadcast. Awful. _Gotterdammerung_ is going to be a real ordeal for both of us.


I'm watching the Siegfried duet now and her shortcomings are much more obvious in this music. I don't think she is awful, but it is not the glorious voice it used to be.
As for the rest, the production and the rest of the cast are excellent. Jonas and Jay Hunter Morris are both very good vocally and look fantastic!!!!!!!!!! The Mime and Wotan are excellent. I think the sets work better in Siegfried than Walkure.


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I do not like Voigt as Brunnhilde. I think she, Terfel, & Morris were overparted in their roles in the Lepage. Its hard for me to watch this Ring with those singers in such prominent roles :-( I wish the Met could stream the more recent cast!

I like the machine though. I dig the innovation & I feel like its probably closer to what Wagner wanted than most of what we see these days lol


----------



## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

I watched this on DVD a number of years ago, and listening to this exact production broadcast on the radio was the first time I ever had the opportunity to listen to all of the Ring back when I was a kid. Now that I have accumulated a bunch of recordings and listened to even more, Voigt leaves a lot to be desired vocally. There's nothing in her voice I ever heard that characterised Brünnhilde in any way. There certainly are bright-voiced singers (bright-not shallow and metallic like Voigt's) who use their tone to really penetrate through the orchestra like a shining light and are able to provide so much more character in their vocal performances at the same time, and Voigt unfortunately doesn't. Her acting is adequate for the production, imo, but the generally uninspired production (it's all style(?) and no substance) doesn't provide much beyond a sometimes-distracting spectacle or an otherwise untheatrical gimmick in the background that doesn't do much to server the action on stage. When the set _does_ work well in combination with the music and the action on stage, it's truly remarkable!


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I do not like Voigt as Brunnhilde. I think she, Terfel, & Morris were overparted in their roles in the Lepage. Its hard for me to watch this Ring with those singers in such prominent roles :-( I wish the Met could stream the more recent cast!
> 
> I like the machine though. I dig the innovation & I feel like its probably closer to what Wagner wanted than most of what we see these days lol


I doubt that Wagner would have liked "the machine" (and "closer than most of what we see these days" isn't saying a lot). Sometimes it's permutations are striking and delightful, but sometimes it looks drab and sterile, and sometimes it gets in the way of what ought to be happening onstage. More could have been done with lighting too: I just watched _Walkure,_ and where Wagner says that the doors to Hunding's hut are flung open by the power of spring all you get is a miserable lime green glow, making nonsense of Sieglinde's startled reaction. Where Wotan summons Loge to surround Brunnhilde's rock the orchestra describes flames springing up suddenly, but nothing happens onstage except Wotan walking around, followed by the timid appearance of orange light that takes too long to grow into something suggestive of fire. And let's not even mention the valkyries' amusement park ride. Hopefully someday someone will use projection and computer simulation to create a really stunning impression of those laughing storm troopers.

Terfel may not be a heldenbariton, but he surprised me by how well he used the medium-sized voice he has. He seems to have enough power, he has a range that takes in the high and low extremes, and he does more than most with the lyrical aspects of his music; Wagner wanted his music sung, not just declaimed, and Terfel's legato phrasing and sensitive dynamics are exceptional. Pretty good actor, too (better than his Brunnhilde, who has approximately two facial expressions and none of what's called, in ballet, "plastique").


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I doubt that Wagner would have liked "the machine" (and "closer than most of what we see these days" isn't saying a lot). Sometimes it's permutations are striking and delightful, but sometimes it looks drab and sterile, and sometimes it gets in the way of what ought to be happening onstage. More could have been done with lighting too: I just watched _Walkure,_ and where Wagner says that the doors to Hunding's hut are flung open by the power of spring all you get is a miserable lime green glow, making nonsense of Sieglinde's startled reaction. Where Wotan summons Loge to surround Brunnhilde's rock the orchestra describes flames springing up suddenly, but nothing happens onstage except Wotan walking around, followed by the timid appearance of orange light that takes too long to grow into something suggestive of fire. And let's not even mention the valkyries' amusement park ride. Hopefully someday someone will use projection and computer simulation to create a really stunning impression of those laughing storm troopers.
> 
> Terfel may not be a heldenbariton, but he surprised me by how well he used the medium-sized voice he has. He seems to have enough power, he has a range that takes in the high and low extremes, and he does more than most with the lyrical aspects of his music; Wagner wanted his music sung, not just declaimed, and Terfel's legato phrasing and sensitive dynamics are exceptional. Pretty good actor, too (better than his Brunnhilde, who has approximately two facial expressions and none of what's called, in ballet, "plastique").


Your knowledge is humbling!! I kept reading online about how huge Terfel's voice was but it did not come off that way to me and you clarified. In the other aspects of his performance, you were spot on. For the video he worked very well. I heard Greer Grimsley as Wotan here and that was a god sized voice from a modest sized body.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Bruinhilde ... is that the name of the bear in act 1 of Siegfried? :lol:


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> Bruinhilde ... is that the name of the bear in act 1 of Siegfried? :lol:


If so, it may explain why Siegfried was so confused on the mountaintop.


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Terfel may not be a heldenbariton, but he surprised me by how well he used the medium-sized voice he has. He seems to have enough power, he has a range that takes in the high and low extremes, and he does more than most with the lyrical aspects of his music; Wagner wanted his music sung, not just declaimed, and Terfel's legato phrasing and sensitive dynamics are exceptional. Pretty good actor, too (better than his Brunnhilde, who has approximately two facial expressions and none of what's called, in ballet, "plastique").


I feel like all of the beauty in his voice is gone & he does more yelling than I would like as Wotan. Hearing Terfel in the role raises my esteem for James Morris who imho outclasses Terfel in every way.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I feel like all of the beauty in his voice is gone & he does more yelling than I would like as Wotan. Hearing Terfel in the role raises my esteem for James Morris who imho outclasses Terfel in every way.


I'm noticing that in the_ Siegfried_, a performance from six months later than the_ Walkure_, Terfel sounds even more vocally stressed and worn. Six months of Wagner, perhaps? I grant you, Wotan isn't his fach, any more than Brunnhilde is Voigt's, but he's a fine musician, and in Walkure I can indulge him in the overextended moments. It's still a warm, sympathetic sound. Would I want him on a recording? No. I treasure his earlier work as the lyric baritone he was.

Morris had the right voice for the part, so I agree with your preference. Who has the right voice today? I'm not up to date.


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> I'm noticing that in the_ Siegfried_, a performance from six months later than the_ Walkure_, Terfel sounds even more vocally stressed and worn. Six months of Wagner, perhaps? I grant you, Wotan isn't his fach, any more than Brunnhilde is Voigt's, but he's a fine musician, and in Walkure I can indulge him in the overextended moments. It's still a warm, sympathetic sound. Would I want him on a recording? No. I treasure his earlier work as the lyric baritone he was.
> 
> Morris had the right voice for the part, so I agree with your preference. Who has the right voice today? I'm not up to date.


Totally agree. A Wotan, Dutchman, Sachs excerpt on occassion would be great, but I think he did himself a diservice taking on entire heldenbariton roles. I miss this voice:






I don't think anyone singing it today measures up to Morris or Tomlinson. So much is required to do the role justice, especially if you're looking for a singer that can excel as all three.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

One thing that really surprised me in this 2011 Ring was their using such a big star as Waltraud Meier as Waltraute.
It is not that big of a role, but we did have Stephanie Blythe in the role here, but she was here already. Usually Waltraud is a headliner, not a minor part star.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> One thing that really surprised me in this 2011 Ring was their using such a big star as Waltraud Meier as Waltraute.
> It is not that big of a role, but we did have Stephanie Blythe in the role here, but she was here already. Usually Waltraud is a headliner, not a minor part star.


Schumann-Heink was a noted Waltraute in her day, as well as an Erda. There aren't many parts suitable for contralto in Wagner, and Waltraute requires a real vocal artist. I find her scene deeply haunting.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Schumann-Heink was a noted Waltraute in her day, as well as an Erda. There aren't many parts suitable for contralto in Wagner, and Waltraute requires a real vocal artist. I find her scene deeply haunting.


Absolutely! The Met Schenk/Levine Ring has Christa Ludwig as Waltraute doesn't it? It's not really a minor part, despite not being very long. I saw Meier in the part at La Scala in the late nineties and she received a far greater ovation than the Brunhilde and Siegfried at the curtain calls.

N.


----------



## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

The strongest vocal parts of the original MET Machine Ring cast for me are the Volsung twins with Kaufmann & Westbroek, the "machine" was a huge gamble for such an expensive production, in some parts it produces some strong visuals,,,,,

The problem is the stage action must bend and conform to the limitations and huge presence of the machine, not the other way around......


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Absolutely! The Met Schenk/Levine Ring has Christa Ludwig as Waltraute doesn't it? It's not really a minor part, despite not being very long. I saw Meier in the part at La Scala in the late nineties and she received a far greater ovation than the Brunhilde and Siegfried at the curtain calls.
> 
> N.


This really gives perspective. I love the music and drama of that scene. It would not work with a second rate singer.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> This really gives perspective. I love the music and drama of that scene. It would not work with a second rate singer.


Alas, Meier in 2012 was not the singer she was in the late '90s. Neither the top nor the bottom of the voice was good by then.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Schumann-Heink was a noted Waltraute in her day, as well as an Erda. There aren't many parts suitable for contralto in Wagner, and Waltraute requires a real vocal artist. I find her scene deeply haunting.


In the Ring in San Francisco (in the 80s, I think) Helga Dernesch was cast in several roles: Fricka in *Das Rheingold*, and *Die Walküre*, Erda in *Siegfried*, the Second Norn and Waltraute in *Götterdämmerung*. She was brilliant in all of the roles, and it was great to have those roles sung by a major voice.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> The strongest vocal parts of the original MET Machine Ring cast for me are the Volsung twins with Kaufmann & Westbroek, the "machine" was a huge gamble for such an expensive production, in some parts it produces some strong visuals,,,,,
> 
> The problem is the stage action must bend and conform to the limitations and huge presence of the machine, not the other way around......


I concur. The one-idea based productions often have to bend the action to conform to that idea. The machine was the elephant in the room - you could never ignore it, or forget it. It got in the way of everything, it was dangerous for the singers and was an eyesore most of the time, and the projections never really worked. Plus, it necessitated a full complement of stage hands for the many manual operations (it never really was « automatic »). It was a beautiful-looking thing on its own, but i'd have never guessed s it was made for a Wagner opera.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> I concur. The one-idea based productions often have to bend the action to conform to that idea. The machine was the elephant in the room - you could never ignore it, or forget it. It got in the way of everything, it was dangerous for the singers and was an eyesore most of the time, and the projections never really worked. Plus, it necessitated a full complement of stage hands for the many manual operations (it never really was « automatic »). It was a beautiful-looking thing on its own, but i'd have never guessed s it was made for a Wagner opera.


I was very skeptical of the machine, but in watching the videos found it highly ingenious and at times effective and fascinating, though awkward and ugly at other times. I think it works fine where we're dealing with rigid, man-made structures, as in Mime's hut and the Gibichung hall. The end was disappointing, but then it always is.


----------



## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

I think the one time where the use of the Machine works best is when they successfully manage to use to visually transform the scenery. Often it's just a visual spectacle, but I think this is the scene in particular where it worked the best. And yeah it's almost entirely relying on visual spectacle than anything, which is why it works for me here:


----------



## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

I think LePage's production is mostly excellent. There are a few obvious miscalculations of dramatic content where the configurations of the machine came across as nothing more than ostentatious set pieces -- the Ride of the Valkyries or characters entering a scene by sliding down the planks. The choreography and interraction of the actors is sometimes inhibited by the machine, and there were some very underwhelming displays like the boring, static misty backgoround in Scenes II and IV or Das Rheingold or the statues crumbling at the end of Gotterdammerung where I wish a little more imagination had been used. But overall the production served and complimented the action without distorting it, and although the music and dialogue do almost all of the heavy dramatic lifting in the opera, at times the machine was truly impressive and inspired -- Wotan and Loge's descent into Nibelheim, the ascent of the gods to Valhalla on the rainbow bridge, the reflections of Siegfried and Mime in the stream, Siegfried's Rhine journey.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

WildThing said:


> I think LePage's production is mostly excellent. There are a few obvious miscalculations of dramatic content where the configurations of the machine came across as nothing more than ostentatious set pieces -- the Ride of the Valkyries or characters entering a scene by sliding down the planks. The choreography and interraction of the actors is sometimes inhibited by the machine, and there were some very underwhelming displays like the boring, static misty backgoround in Scenes II and IV or Das Rheingold or the statues crumbling at the end of Gotterdammerung where I wish a little more imagination had been used. But overall the production served and complimented the action without distorting it, and although the music and dialogue do almost all of the heavy dramatic lifting in the opera, at times the machine was truly impressive and inspired -- Wotan and Loge's descent into Nibelheim, the ascent of the gods to Valhalla on the rainbow bridge, the reflections of Siegfried and Mime in the stream, Siegfried's Rhine journey.


Yes, and I thought the water effects were great. I mostly liked the sets best in Siegfried. The Valyrie set was ridiculous and asking all those actors to slide was precarious.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Yes, and I thought the water effects were great. I mostly liked the sets best in Siegfried. The Valyrie set was ridiculous and asking all those actors to slide was precarious.


I mostly agree about _Siegfried_; the forest with the stream, the dragon and the bird was fairy-tale enchanting (how the heck did they make the bird so real?). But the Erda scene was a travesty, with a slinky Erda coming up, walking around and being touched by Wotan - NOT what Wagner had in mind. She should be still as a statue, very old, robed in cobwebs and frost, her face white and glowing, her eyes sunken and dark, her white hair draped over her shoulders and down to the ground - majestic and ghostly, making her last appearance before going down to eternal sleep. It's in the music, but LePage wasn't listening.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Watched part of Gotterdamerung from Met. Thought Vogt was really good. She actually looked the part after her courageous weight loss and sang well. the production was spectacular even though there were a few anomolies.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Yes, and I thought the water effects were great. I mostly liked the sets best in Siegfried. The Valyrie set was ridiculous and asking all those actors to slide was precarious.


I thought that was a great laugh! Girls having fun! :lol:


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DavidA said:


> She actually looked the part after her *courageous weight loss* and sang well.


Didn't she have surgery for her weight loss??


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bonetan said:


> Didn't she have surgery for her weight loss??


Yes stomach by-pass I believe. Pretty drastic but it has worked


----------



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DavidA said:


> Yes stomach by-pass I believe. Pretty drastic but it has worked
> 
> View attachment 132769


I just don't feel its courageous to let yourself get unbelievably fat & then fix it with surgery lol


----------

