# Portaying Anger



## MarkMcD (Mar 31, 2014)

Hi all,

Music, for me, is one of more creative ways to express emotion, be it your personal feelings or just wanting to express a particular emotion for whatever reason.

I recently thought I would like to write and new piece, expressing one emotion that I've rarely heard expressed in music. Anger. I'm sure there are lots of works with this emotion as a main protagonist, but I couldn't really call any to mind.

I wondered if anyone has any suggestions of works I could listen to with anger as a theme.

I think it's interesting to hear how different composers tackle certain themes with surprisingly different results, so the more suggestions, the better.

Is it really such a rarely expressed emotion, or are my horizons just a little to narrow?

And, while we're at it, what other rarely expressed emotions would you like to hear as the protagonist of a new piece?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

MarkMcD said:


> I wondered if anyone has any suggestions of works I could listen to with anger as a theme.


Vaughan Williams Sym #4 - pay special attention to first mvt, and last mvt - this is one p*ssed off composer!!

Walton Sym #1 is similar.
Shostakovich rates a mention, too - try Sym #8/II & III, or Sym #10/II !!

Prokofieff Sym #3, also esp mvts I, III, IV


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I am reminded that the second movement of William Walton's first symphony is marked "presto, con malizia": with malice. I can't quite hear the malice, but Walton evidently thought we could, or should.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)




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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Of Rage and Remembrance:


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Strange Magic said:


> I am reminded that the second movement of William Walton's first symphony is marked "presto, con malizia": with malice. I can't quite hear the malice, but Walton evidently thought we could, or should.


Right - mvt II is specifically what I was thinking of - "with malice" - try Previn's wonderful account with London SO - it is indeed malicious - with the LSO just jumping on top of it - all of the rude interjections and outbursts just explode, right at the front of the beat...great playing.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Of Rage and Remembrance:


perfect example - very angry music....


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The snare drum obbligato in Nielsen's Fifth.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Art Rock said:


>


I couldn't help but laugh hearing this: the playing is so ironically peaceful and gentle! But maybe that's part of the joke.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> Right - mvt II is specifically what I was thinking of - "with malice" - try Previn's wonderful account with London SO - it is indeed malicious - with the LSO just jumping on top of it - all of the rude interjections and outbursts just explode, right at the front of the beat...great playing.


That's the recording I have; it is very fine. I recall, years ago, there was a music program on the radio where the host would play often 3 versions of parts of the movements of classical works as interpreted by various conductors/ensembles. Driving home one day, I heard the Walton thus dissected and compared, and the Previn suited me the best, and it seemed to also suit the host. So I went out and bought it straightaway. BTW, did anybody mention Previn in the thread on underappreciated conductors? The man can play the piano, too.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The final dance to the death from Le Sacre du Printemps sounds pretty angry to me.

May become the new US National Anthem.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Allan Pettersson Symphony No.7.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

"Montagues and Capulets" from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet perhaps?


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Anger and its uselessness is the theme of Harry Partch's Delusion of the Fury.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

The allegro from the opening movement of Brahms' first symphony was supposedly conceived shortly after his infamous manifesto against the _Neue Zeitschrift für Musik_, representing his rebellion against the New German School, which he regarded as "contrary to the innermost spirit of music, strongly to be deplored and condemned". Indeed it does have a rather defiant, vengeful, almost murderous character. Just look at the conductor of the performance in the video below, who appears to be no less the leader of an army than the conductor of an orchestra.

Beginning at 3:40:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Improbus said:


> The allegro from the opening movement of Brahms' first symphony was supposedly conceived shortly after his infamous manifesto against the _Neue Zeitschrift für Musik_, representing his rebellion against the New German School, which he regarded as "contrary to the innermost spirit of music, strongly to be deplored and condemned". Indeed it does have a rather defiant, vengeful, almost murderous character. Just look at the conductor of the performance in the video below, who appears to be no less the leader of an army than the conductor of an orchestra.
> 
> Beginning at 3:40:


This is off-topic, but in listening to this I'm startled by the harmonic awkwardness of the transition to the first-movement repeat. No wonder the repeat is often omitted! What on earth was Brahms thinking?

Luisi takes an awfully slow tempo in the intro here, and begins the allegro more slowly than it soon becomes. I think he needs to make some decisions about this piece.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> This is off-topic, but in listening to this I'm startled by the harmonic awkwardness of the transition to the first-movement repeat. No wonder the repeat is often omitted! What on earth was Brahms thinking?


I can't quite agree with that. To me effect is similar to that in the scherzo of Beethoven's Ninth, basically saying "let's restate that". Instead I'm a bit frustrated when it's left out.



> Luisi takes an awfully slow tempo in the intro here, and begins the allegro more slowly than it soon becomes. I think he needs to make some decisions about this piece.


Here I fully agree however, but then he has some great tempo and energy in the finale and excellent articulation overall which kind of makes up for it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

MarkMcD said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Music, for me, is one of more creative ways to express emotion, be it your personal feelings or just wanting to express a particular emotion for whatever reason.
> 
> ...


It is a very common emotion in opera.

The classic piece for this is Monteverdi's Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda. IN his preface, Monteverdi discusses his intentions about portraying anger in music explicitly. There used to be an English translation of the preface online somewhere, if you can't find it let me know and I'll see if I can dig it out from my stuff.

There are clearly going to be tons fo examples from later music, the one that came to mind first was Achilles' war cry in Tippett's King Priam, but there's loads of stuff (Act 3 of Otello (a terra e piangi), Naso vermiglio! in the final scene of Falstaff . . . )

From pure music, as it were, maybe try Elliott Carter - the fourth quartet and Night Fantasies. Also, I would say, the specific performance of En Blanc et Noir (Debussy) that Paul Jacobs and Gilbert Kalish gave.

Re Brahms 1, I remember there was a live recording of it by Giulini on BBC Legends with The Philharmonia which seemed to really bring out this aspect of the symphony. When I was into this type of music I loved it!


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Brahms 1, I remember there was a live recording of it by Giulini on BBC Legends with The Philharmonia which seemed to really bring out this aspect of the symphony. When I was into this type of music I loved it!


I will check that out, but what in the world happened to you? Into what sort of misdeeds have you fallen?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Improbus said:


> I will check that out, but what in the world happened to you? Into what sort of misdeeds have you fallen?


I'm not interested in music that I can whistle or remember or tap my feet to.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> I'm not interested in music that I can whistle or remember or tap my feet to.


Perhaps you could record yourself whistling Brahms' symphony no. 1 and upload it here for us. I for one would surely be impressed.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Improbus said:


> Perhaps you could record yourself whistling Brahms' symphony no. 1 and upload it here for us. I for one would surely be impressed.


Yes well I saw that coming as soon as I made the post!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Mandryka said:


> I'm not interested in music that I can whistle or remember or tap my feet to.


Goodness me. What do you do with your lips and feet now?


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## MarkMcD (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks to all of you for some wonderful suggestions, that's going to give a lot of material to listen to and I really appreciate it. My mode of writing is mainly tonal, melody driven, I'm not good at modern or atonal writing so I was particularly interested in the earlier composers, although I didn't think that the Beethoven was very angry I have to say, but I enjoyed it none the less, and I had completely forgotten about Opera (a form I love) which is often full of anger and wrath.

I'm going to work through all of the suggestions you good folks have put forward so thanks once again, and keep it coming if you feel inclined.

Regards to all
Mark


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

George Grove found anger in the first movement of Beethoven’s 8th Symphony. He describes this in his book on the symphonies written in the 1890s:

“Apart, however, from individual phrases and modes of construction, or any other such mechanical points, there is the extraordinary amount of violent emotion and fury which animates the greater part of the latter portion of this movement. From the double-bar onwards Beethoven betrays a feeling of wrath which I do not remember in any other of his works, or in any other piece of music—though I am not able to speak of Wagner. It is not the boisterous fun which we ﬁnd throughout the Finale. Here it is edged by a distinct spirit of anger.”

In listening, I have to agree.


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## Botschaft (Aug 4, 2017)

KenOC said:


> George Grove found anger in the first movement of Beethoven's 8th Symphony. He describes this in his book on the symphonies written in the 1890s:
> 
> "Apart, however, from individual phrases and modes of construction, or any other such mechanical points, there is the extraordinary amount of violent emotion and fury which animates the greater part of the latter portion of this movement. From the double-bar onwards Beethoven betrays a feeling of wrath which I do not remember in any other of his works, or in any other piece of music-though I am not able to speak of Wagner. It is not the boisterous fun which we ﬁnd throughout the Finale. Here it is edged by a distinct spirit of anger."
> 
> In listening, I have to agree.


I see it rather as an example of the "wrath of fate" more typical of Beethoven and his successors rather than as the expression of personal anger.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

In Mozart's Magic Flute, the Queen of the Night's aria "Der Hölle Rache" is filled with fury and rage. The queen must have been having a bad attack of PMS that day! :lol:


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## georgedelorean (Aug 18, 2017)

When a composer tries to express anger, it can be challenging as you noted. Some may try to keep the music beautiful, and in that sense it would limit the aggression needed to express themselves. Others will dig deep into the composer tool box and just say "To hell with anything else, I just want to let others know I'm peeved."


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The first movement of Nielsen's symphony no 2 "The Four Temperaments " portrays the "choleric " , or angry personality , very vividly . The other two movements represent the phlegmatic, melancholic and sanguine ( optimistic and enthusiastic ) types .
Paul Hindemith wrote a piece representing these four personality types for piano and strings , but the order of the four is slightly different . The two works might make an interesting combination at a concert . I heard this piece long, long ago on LP with a pianist whose name I can't quite recall at the moment, although her first name is Carol, with the late James De Priest and the Royal Philharmonic, coupled with Hindemith's suit from his ballet Nobilissima Visione ", about the life of Saint Francis of Assisi .


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