# Tour de France



## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

The Tour started in Denmark over the weekend and today the race is returning to northern France. Anybody a fan of cycling here? surely there's got to be someone from Belgium here! 😄 

I love to ride bicycles, and I even used to enter amateur races around here when I was younger. I remember back in the 1980s when we had to follow the Tour in cycling magazines after the race was over. That's how I heard that Greg Lemond had won in 1986. (and that Andy Hampsted won the Giro in 1988) Then in 1989, on the Wide World of Sports on ABC, I got to see my first glimpse of the Tour...the final time trial stage in 1989 when Lauren Fignot lost the tour by 8 seconds to Greg Lemond. I still remember the scene of Fignot on the ground, laying on the cobbles, after just missing the time to stay in yellow.

I remember the day in 2006 that a local Pennsylvanian rider named Floyd Landis made what appeared to be the best one day ride in a generation. dope or no dope, there are still stories about Floyd Landis among the local racers here. Floyd was Mennonite, so he didn't wear shorts. He rode in long pants on an old beater of a bicycle and lap the entire field at local criteriums.

anyway, are there any cycling fans here?


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I`m a fan but a newer one. I think I started watching road cycling around 2016 Giro when Nibali won his second title. I have an unconventional and maybe a bit partial opinion that Giro is the better tour nowadays but TDF is an undeniable force nonetheless.

I feel the Slovenian wonderkids and Cyclo-cross guys are starting to steal the show but they deserve their fame and glory. For instance van Aert is showing great panache and doing unbelievably good so far with _maillot jaune._ I wouldn`t be surprised if he finishes tomorrow on the podium as well.

I don`t expect much surprise this year especially on GC but I believe if someone other than the reigning champion is going to win that will be Jonas Vingegaard. This latter scenario would be very meaningful after that incredible Danish _Grand Départ._


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

As teenagers in the early 80s, my older brother and I were serious cyclists. We followed the Tour closely. Today I ride purely out of necessity as my primary form of transportation. I was turned off to the entire sport years ago, when it was revealed how rife with doping and cheating it was.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I watched for decades but somewhere in the 90s I started to lose interest. The subsequent dope scandals did not help.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

for me the way cycling handled the doping was a turn-off. Listen, cyclists take drugs. It always was that way. 

but when they started taking away titles after the fact, that was just jive. I saw with my own eyes Lance Armstrong on the podium 7 times. Kicking riders out for failing drug tests during the race I totally am in favor of, but when the tests come back next month and they start taking away victories...I cant even keep track of who actually won from one year to the next

and here in the States, Greg LeMond said that he thought the whole field was doping from the early 90s on...and Lance and US cycling had him tarred and feathered when all he did was tell the truth


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

The first Tour I followed - unintentionally at first, just got hooked as it went along - was theone when Greg Lemond took Bernard Hinault's crown, 86 or 87. Just brilliant, and then Stephen Roche in the rain a couple of years later, that infamous time trial into Paris (I still feel sorry for Laurent Fignon!). Ahhh! Those were the days!

I reckon Pogacar will win a few more....

As an Englishman, I remain very non-plussed by the attitude towards Chris Froome. We've never warmed to him, in the same way as we don't particularly like our dull successes, Nick Faldo springs to mind there.. as far as I am concerned, Froome is one of the UK's finest sportsmen, full stop, a true Great.....that insane attack on the penultimate stage of the Giro a few years back rather proves my point there, just as much a four Tours do.

One day, I'll make a point of going up Mont Ventoux. Should be quite easy in a 4x4!!!


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Chris Froome is one only a handful of men with more than 3 legitimate Tour wins. Only Merckx, Anquetil, Hinault and Indurain have more. That's a very select group. 

to put even a finer point on it, he has more tour wins than Fausto Coppi

so I'm with you, I never really understood why he isn't celebrated more in the sport


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Pretending Lance Armstrong didn't stand on the podium 7 times in Paris, first among a group of cyclists who are were all doping, crashed my interest in the sport.

Sanction Armstrong, ban him for life, permanently place an asterisk by his name: that stuff I can get behind. But to elevate someone else instead who didn't win but was also definitely doping? That's forked up. Easily the top 25 places in every stage of the Tour were all professional dopers, and probably way more than that. Indurain, Pantani, Ullrich, Riis, Contador, Pereiro: their wins still stand. Yet, they were all just as doped up as Armstrong. They all were cheaters. They are all complicit. All of them!

But rides like that of Wout van Aert yesterday still suck me in. Epic!

I just assume they're all still doping somehow.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Lance is an interesting case. The interest in the Tour here in the States exploded with the backstory of an American cancer survivor winning with a team sponsored by the US Post Office. Out on the road on my bike back then there was all of a sudden a new brand of cyclist out there.

Cycling in America had always been a "mad monk" sport. If I came across another rider out there on the back of the map, chances are we had alot in common. That ended with the "Lance Armstrong" effect in the decade of the 2000s. Sales in all things cycling were booming. And all that money was tied to Lance being for real.

So I think the cycling industry here was complicit in the cover up. 

But as more and more riders left US Postal to go to other teams, the rumors started to grow. Lance always said he took EPO to beat cancer. Then Chris Carmichael claimed it was Lance's different training regiment that made him successful. The European fans all knew that Lance not riding the spring schedule meant he was probably doped to the gills, and they were right.

But doping and cycling go way further back than Lance Armstrong. There weren't even rules against it until Tom Simpson, the great British champion, died on Mont Ventoux in 1967. 

I agree with you that if they strip Lance of his 7 titles and leave Marco Pantani (of all people) as the 1998 winner, that's just nuts. There wasn't a test for EPO in 1998, but Pantani won the Giro AND the Tour that year and, not surprisingly, was the last man to do it. Now I absolutely loved watching Marco ride away from the field, but even I have to admit that when we won the Giro it was suspicious. You see, he also won the time trial on the penultimate stage, so you have Marco riding clear in the big mountains AND taking time out of Alex Zulle in the time trial???

nevermind his subsequent suspension, Marco doing the double in 98 should be people's exhibit A that he was doping


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Something is different this year with the Tour coverage on TV here in the States. Once Lance had won his first 2 or 3 Tours , the interest here in the US got pretty high and they showed the Tour live in the morning, then repeated it in the afternoon, then at 8pm eastern time they ran the stage again. So for the month of July, all you had to do was turn on the TV and there would be scenes of colorful cyclists riding through gorgeous scenery.

I'd camp out all week for tickets to that. Hell, they even showed some of the spring classics on TV back then

Now, 10 years after Lance got busted and after all the doping scandals and the fact that cycling just isn't that popular anymore here in the States, ...they now show the Tour live in the morning, but that's it. I think if you want to really follow the Tour, you have to have their streaming service.

So not only isn't this thread generating much interest, but I'm a cycling nut and I can't even tell you what stage they are running today or even who's the top 3 riders in the GC. I have no earthly idea who is in the Green or KOM jerseys either.

and when I'm out on the road on my bike these days, I rarely see other riders. What I see mostly is dog walkers.

which would explain why instead of the Tour on TV last night, they were showing doggy agility contests

not that that is a bad thing, the doggy diving competition was awesome


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Highwayman said:


> This latter scenario would be very meaningful after that incredible Danish _Grand Départ._


Danish riders are doing very well so far as Magnus Cort, Vingegaard and Mads Pedersen got their stage wins and Vingegaard relatively safe at _maillot jaune_ after that magnificent 11th stage. JV showed real good why having a strong team matters...


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

yesterday I caught the last 45 minutes of the stage. They were already on the lower part of Alp D'Huez, But I mistook Vinegaard for Podacar because he was in yellow and Podacar was in white yesterday.

goes to show how hard it is to follow the tour on TV this year, I dont even know whos is what jersey 😧 

I thought that young Englishman who won the stage yesterday put in a heck of a ride. I still love seeing that sort of thing. A rider that nobody is talking about getting away and hanging on to win. Great stuff.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

For anybody playing along at home, a bit of history is about to be made at the Tour this year....

A Dutchman is poised to be the winner in Paris Sunday. the last (and I think only) rider from Denmark to win is Bjarne Riis in 1996, but Riis was involved in doping scandals both as a rider and later as a team manager, so he wasn't even invited to take part in the opening festivities in Denmark this year. So Denmark will have a legitimate Tour winner Sunday barring a disaster in tomorrow's time trial.

The young man's name is Jonas Vinegaard, and yesterday he and Tadjej Pogacar rode a stage for the ages. Pogacar in the white jersey (best young rider) was 2:18 behind Vinegaard in yellow on the last mountain stage of this year's Tour. If Pogacar was going to win his third Tour in a row, he HAD to make up that two minutes yesterday. 

He sure gave it all he had, too. 

On the second to last climb, the Col de Spandelles, Pogacar attacked again and again riding away from everybody....except Vinegaard who stayed glued to his wheel. The decent was treacherous. The road had been newly chip sealed and the stones hadn't really been trodden in and then in the heat, the tar was bubbling up and it was a complete mess. It was on this narrow, sketchy road that Pogacar had to attack again to try and get Vinegaard off his wheel. First, Vinegaard nearly crashed. His rear wheel hit loose stones in a corner and violently bounced sideways nearly crashing him. Somehow, Jonas held on and stayed upright.

Then Pogacar crashed. He overcooked a corner and slid off the road into a ditch. It was then that something wonderful happened.

In true sporting fashion and in keeping with a longstanding cycling tradition that isn't always observed anymore, Vinegaard waited for Pogacar to come back to him before resuming the race. The two riders, who are actually friends as well as rivals, had a short word and shook hands...and then it was on!

On the final climb of the Hautacam, Vinegaard finished Pogacar off. Finally, the defending champion had no reply when Jonas Vinegaard rode away from him. What happened next is something we don't always get to see, but when we do, we know it is special. They say that the way to win the Tour is alone and in front wearing the Yellow Jersey and that is just what Jonas Vinegaard did yesterday. It was a triumph. One of the best days of bike racing I have seen in years.

So if you have a spare minute Sunday, you just might get to see a rider from Denmark win the Tour de France. It doesn't happen often, but it just might happen in a little over 48 hours from now.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Nate Miller said:


> A Dutchman is poised to be the winner in Paris Sunday.


Ahhhhh - if only.... 



> the last (and I think only) rider from Denmark to win is Bjarne Riis in 1996, but Riis was involved in doping scandals both as a rider and later as a team manager, so he wasn't even invited to take part in the opening festivities in Denmark this year. So Denmark will have a legitimate Tour winner Sunday barring a disaster in tomorrow's time trial.


Correct. After Riis, Michel Rasmussen was on schedule to win the 2007 Tour de France, but was taken out of the course by his own team after stage 16 (of 20) when it became clear that he had lied about his whereabouts earlier that year to avoid spot checks on doping usage. At a press conference on 31 January 2013, Rasmussen admitted that he had used performance-enhancing drugs and methods, including EPO, growth hormones, insulin, testosterone, DHEA, IGF-1, Oxyglobin, cortisone and blood doping, for most of his professional career (from wiki).

This has been a good Tour to watch.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Ahhhhh - if only....



I'm sorry Art, I have a feeling I really stepped in it there. The citizens of Denmark aren't called "Dutch" at all, are they? 

it has been a while since one of your countrymen won. Joop Zoetemelk in the 1980s was the last, I think. Its about the same for us here in the States. Greg Lemond from that same era is the last American to win (after Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis got expunged)

it has been harder to follow the Tour for me this year, but the stages I got to watch were all really entertaining. Yesterday's stage was one I am definitely glad I got to see


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

Nate Miller said:


> I'm sorry Art, I have a feeling I really stepped in it there. The citizens of Denmark aren't called "Dutch" at all, are they?


We can discuss it over a cup of coffee, and a danish.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Congratulations to the DANES (I think I got it right this time, Art 🙂 )

Jonas Vinegaard is the 2022 Tour de France winner. 

He also claimed the King of the Mountains competition to be a DOUBLE jersey winner. That doesn't happen very often, either, although last year Pogacar won the GC, KOM and Best Young Rider to be one of the few triple jersey winners.

Saturday, Vinegaard put time into his rivals in the time trial to seal his victory. It really was an exciting Tour to watch, and it looks like we are going to be in for more of the same for the next couple years as Vinegaard and Pogacar duel across the roads of France.

For us here in the States, I think we even did worse than the French. Long gone are the days of the Americans dominating the Tour (damn drug tests!😠) The French did get a stage victory and a French rider finished in the top 5 and two French riders placed in the top 10. The highest placed American came home in 13th, but Sepp Kuss was probably the rider that had the most impact on the race as he rode for the team of Jonas Vinegaard.

I think the lack of any American with a snowball's chance in Guam may have had an effect on the television coverage this year. But this year was a very entertaining race, and with the crowds back, it was great to see the full spectacle of the Tour again. Even if I had to watch it around the various dog shows this year.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

It was an interesting Tour. The best team effort I have seen in years from Jumbo Visma. Wout van Aert was immense. Chapeau to Vingegaard. Pogacar, Thomas and Yates too. Congrats to Pidcock for a great first tour. One to watch.

The only thing missing for me was Cavendish.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

yes, and I wonder if Cav will ever get a chance to break Big Ted's record for stage wins. Even if he remains tied at 34 stage wins, sharing the record with the great Eddy Merckx is still more than anybody could ever ask.

And I, too, thought Pidcock's win on the Alp was tremendous.

And the way Jumbo Visma rode in formation across the finish yesterday was fantastic. I was wondering where van Aert was in the run-up to the final sprint, but that's what was going on...rather than put the guys up front to lead out the carnage, the team dropped back and took a "victory lap" as it were. It is really hard for a team to win the GC, KOM and Green jersey, but they did it, and I think the guys on the team deserved an easy day in the saddle for a change. Great stuff.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Nate Miller said:


> I was wondering where van Aert was in the run-up to the final sprint, but that's what was going on...rather than put the guys up front to lead out the carnage, the team dropped back and took a "victory lap" as it were.


That was a classy move by van Aert. Not everyone would renounce a chance to win another stage just to give a nice team photo. That shows how a dedicated team player he is besides being a superstar.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Chilham said:


> Congrats to Pidcock for a great first tour. One to watch.


Indeed. I reckon he`ll be on my Fantasy Cycling (Velogames) roster for many years to come.


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