# Abba



## Guest (Jan 23, 2013)

I've always liked this song and I think it's melody is interesting and very good. What's WRONG with it is the lyrics and the syrupy arrangement. A better lyricist would ensure this song survives into perpetuity - the words are just rubbish, except in the 'chorus' section. I asked myself whether somebody like Stephen Sondheim would write such trite words for a good melody like this!!






It was a fate to beset most of Abba's music - poor lyrics.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

They made far better songs (IMO), such as The winner takes it all (good lyrics), Eagle, The day before you came, SOS, and so on.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Guilty Pleasure*

One of my guilty pleasures is ABBA. Or maybe it is because I really wanted to take Agnetha and/or Frid into a dark closet and(**&)(*&*&(*) :devil:


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

^

Hhahaha what the ****


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

I wouldn't say that ABBA are a guilty pleasure for me at all (don't really have any). They were a very consistent pop group who were able to keep the disco scene interesting, and their albums seriously stand well on their own. I think _Voulez-Vous_ is my favorite album by them.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> I wouldn't say that ABBA are a guilty pleasure for me at all (don't really have any). They were a very consistent pop group who were able to keep the disco scene interesting, and their albums seriously stand well on their own. I think _Voulez-Vous_ is my favorite album by them.


But I am a pseudo-intellectual musical snob. For me it is definitely a guilty pleasure.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I was just listening to Les Consolations by Helmut Lachenmann, a choral sound collage kind of work, and a little bit of Abba's Dancing Queen wafted through. There were other tunes but DQ seems to be used like that a lot, i've heard it in snatches in several non-classical works, it is just a brilliantly made, instantly recognisable piece of music.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

I am big fan of ABBA and I wasn't until I heard all of their albums. I knew their hits and their hits are of course brilliant, but when I heard all of their albums a few years ago I realized that they were not able to make a bad song. 
Many people find their music 'sugary and sweet pop', but it seems that because of what is outside form they can't see what is inside and what is their real substance. 
ABBA probably made the most complex pop music ever considering unexpected melody construction. For example, song 'The Name of the Game' doesn't have typical verse-chorus form. It's more something like verse-bridge1-chorus1-bridge2-chorus2 and then from the begining. They were truly escaping all possible pop cliches in their music 
and they were still sounding more pop than almost anything else. There was really nothing predictable or banal in their music. Benny and Bjorn were brilliant songwriters with great feeling for melody and hooks. Vocals by Agnetha and Frida were really beautiful. 
I think that ABBA were peak of pop music. Before them or after them no one wasn't even near to that quality. It's really a music that I can always enjoy even without trying. Lush and clean, but perfect production and all those mixing of little melodies between main melody and backing vocals. They are brilliant! 
I also don't find their lyrics to be a rubbish. Far from that, but they're succesful mainly because of their melodies. Their music is innocent and great. They were brilliant musicians even without trying to pretend that they're anything else than pure pop.

Here are some of my favorite songs. And I won't share hits that we all know, but my favorite hit is Chiquitita. 
Other brilliant, but not so popular songs:
Head Over Heels
That's Me - I simply love how melody builds on this one.
When I Kissed the Teacher
So Long
My Love, My Life
Man in the Middle
Hole in Your Soul
Move On
The Way Old Friends Do
Soldiers
Slipping through my fingers


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

good lord, and I was even taking you seriously.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

arpeggio said:


> Or maybe it is because I really wanted to take Agnetha and/or Frid into a dark closet and(**&)(*&*&(*) :devil:


Reminded me of the eurogarble Samuel Pepys uses for the naughty bits in the Diary, so i read it as:

Or maybe it is because I really wanted to take Agnetha and/or Frid into a dark closet and _tocar mi cosa con su mano_ through my chemise but yet so as to _hazer me hazer la grande cosa_.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

norman bates said:


> good lord, and I was even taking you seriously.


Unlike you, im not surprised with your comment. I was expecting that you will prove and show very soon your narrow mindness. All jazz snobs think that ABBA is crap. I woul be surprised if you would like anything with great harmonies for which you actually need real talent. Just continue to listen to your jazz sacred cows.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

What's wrong with ABBA? Sometimes you just need some fun music and relax and breeze along in life.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

nikola said:


> Unlike you, im not surprised with your comment. I was expecting that you will prove and show very soon your narrow mindness. All jazz snobs think that ABBA is crap. I woul be surprised if you would like anything with great harmonies for which you actually need real talent. Just continue to listen to your jazz sacred cows.


[the outraged knee-jerk reaction you're looking for goes here]

hope that was good enough, its all the interest I can muster


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

SimonNZ said:


> [the outraged knee-jerk reaction you're looking for goes here]
> 
> hope that was good enough, its all the interest I can muster


Its good enough. No need to worry.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I'll confess to not hating ABBA. I won't purchase any of their material but if I happen to hear their brand of bubblegum as I go about my business, my eardrums won't suddenly burst.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Since I'm listening many kinds of music for years and I had many conversations about music on many forums and in real life with people and friends, I came to some conclusions.
We, people in this society became very frustrated over music. Instead of enjoyment, music became something through what we will convince ourselves and others 'who are we'. Sometimes, considering some musical styles more 'advanced' or critically accepted as 'better' turned many people into narrow minded listeners who are obviously not able to think with their own heads, so they think that actually their mostly unnecessary prejudices towards any kind of music that they 'don't listen' makes them automatically more 'smart' or 'musically intelligent'.

Honestly, I almost didn't meet in my life a casual jazz fan who didn't have some frustration issues and who didn't think that he is better for making fun about music that is actually better than so called 'intellectual' crap that he was listening to. Of course, I didn't meet many of them, so for sure not all of them are like that. 
Metal and hip-hop was sold to teens like something 'cool' and 'rebellious' and most of them think of their musical genres as some sacred cow and everything else for them is most of the time poor and inferior crap. They will even tell you that Beethoven would be a metal musician if he is alive today. Dream on, kids!
When you listen to some genres that are printed out by millions of bands who make exactly the same music, you simply lost your track with healthy perception. Not all of them can be better than anything else just because they make music for which you were accepted by other teens when you were 14. Musicians and bands can be good or bad, not genres generally... unless your genre offer you a lot of opportunity to make crap.

So, I realized that some people listen to many kinds of music for so many wrong reasons, but I don't care about that. But the problem is sometimes in the rest of us. I see that there are open threads on this board about 'guilty pleasures' and people are mentioning ABBA if I'm not wrong. Why should anyone feel guilty for liking ABBA? Just because some vain person who listen to classical music, metal or jazz, etc. thinks ABBA are inferior to other music based simply on their POP STYLE? Is that stupid the way it sounds? Yes, it is that stupid.

Let's make a little analogy here...
Did you ever wonder why are some classical pieces considered to be 'the best' and those musical pieces don't change much for hundreds of years?
I must admit that I didn't almost hear popular classical piece that I would not love it or even like it to certain extent.
I'm talking now about the most obvious top 100 of best classical pieces like Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, Chopin Nocturne E Flat Major Op.9 No.2, 1st mov of Beethoven's 5th, 2nd mov of his 7th or Ode to Joy or Moonlight Sonata, Debussy's Faune, Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue, Grieg's Morning Hour, Khatchaturian Sabre Dance, beautiful Mahler's Adagietto, Dvorak's New World Symphony, Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, etc etc.

Do you ever wonder why those pieces are so much more popular than thousands of other classical pieces?
Because they have strong musical theme and they appeal to many people. They are easy to enjoy while listening. Their harmonic structures and melodies are original and you can't mistake them for something else and their musical execution will thrill you or emotionally move you. That doesn't make those compositions banal or simple or inferior to some less popular stuff that is probably not so easy to listen for casual listener. 
Those pieces also have some great variations in them and unpredictable musical twists and turns that makes them even more interesting.
Those compositions in reality show what humanity truly love about music and those music actually makes us look great I must admit. It shows that somethng universally accepted by many generations and millions and millions of people around the world simply can't be bad and it is not bad. It is brilliant and those pieces define the best of music from our species.

So, what is connection with ABBA? After almost 35 years after they broke up as a band, for some probably unknown reason to some poor ears, ABBA is still almost popular like back in days of their glory and they're loved by many different kinds of people. Why is that?
Because ABBA were able to made music that defines all great classical pieces - melodically challenging, enough complex with many musical twist and turns that makes those songs even more fun to listen to and many times even with great emotional impact. They had exceptionally subtle and strong feeling for melody. It's not music that was made for certain type of listeners who would think that they're better because they listen to that stuff. ABBA was on outside 'only pop', but on the inside because of their rich and quality musical substance they became actually the main reason and test for anyone to discredit him/herself because of thinking that ABBA is in any way musically inferior than music that specific person listens to.
One thing is not to like ABBA, but the other thing is to consider them trashy and inferior and that is the problem some people have and they're not even aware of it.

I'm sure that to many people ABBA is the same trash as Modern Talking and that's because they are not able to realize so obvious lack of perception and musical capabilities and sensibility to realize that they're not able to be the slightest objective listeners. Modern Talking can be likeable, but they're musically flat and all of their songs are pushed through same musical matrix. They are really trash, but not in so much negative way... just like many of other pop music that can be even much worse and more banal. 

Considering jazz... there is a jazz board on internet where someone opened thread about Yanni to say that 'Yanni isn't jazz'. No **** Sherlock!!! And many jazz fans used that thread to simply make fun of Yanni and to disqualify him as a musician. Unfortunatelly, what I noticed so far there is almost no jazz fan who wouldn't with his wrong premises try to disapprove certain music so what he is listening could be automatically better because of that. There is no jazz fan who would say that ABBA is actually musically at least 'decent'. That just show their poor mentality and all the wrong reason for which they are listening to their 'intelectually' approved genre.
I'm not saying they're all like that, but that is my experience and that's on what I base my statements.

On the other hand, there is almost no any really quality musician who won't notice and say that ABBA is musically brilliant band. Sure, they are easy to listen, they are fun. Does that make them musically more banal?
No... it would be like saying that some complex and hard to digest meal is better than the apple. It's not.

Sure, ears who are trained to classical music most of the time want something more complex and more challenging than predictable pop structure, but that's what I'm talking about. ABBA were and still are better and more challening than the rest of other shiny pop.

And all that is simply because those people listen to something most of the time because of the image of musician or band... because it represents something more than it actually is on musical level to them. And that is quite narrow minded.
Because I like many of classical pieces, does that make me better or smarter than someone who like Modern Talking? No... at least that person who like Modern Talking won't come to board to be snobbish smartass. That is difference between us and them. 
But that's why I'm smartass too because there are no many people who will find necessary to defend band like ABBA. 

It's the same mentality of people who think that Bob Dylan is better composer than Elton John simply because they take Dylan 'seriously'. I like Dylan, but he's not even near to Elton's songwriting capabilities. But he still made some brilliant songs in sea of generic, minimalist and repetitive bluesy-folk. I have all or almost all of Dylan albums, so I don't talk about something I don't know.

So, it's kinda sad to see that to many people ABBA is 'guilty pleasure'. Why would you feel guilty for something honestly liking?
I don't feel guilty for loving ABBA's music. I'm actually proud because of it. I don't find them mediocre or inferior to other music on any possible level.
I also love Yanni's music... come on... mock me.. 
I don't give a ****!
Some people wouldn't notice the differences between poser like Ludovico Einaudi and Yanni simply because Ludovico seems visually more 'serious', but he is musically way way more banal, predictable and inferior to Yanni.

I'm not sheep to follow some generally accepted rules and I listen to music that I found original, challenging and great. I listen to music in which I can enjoy. Should I feel guilty because of that? Should I care if someone here will take me seriously? you don't have to like what I like! You can even consider me to be a 5 year old retard who still 'don't understand music'. I'm fine with that. 
Should you feel guilty because your head doesn't explode during ABBA's 'Mamma Mia'? Come on... you're not kids anymore. You're grown up and mature people and you could at least try to act like that.

If I would think that I need approval from some self-proclaimed 'genious listener' for my taste that would be really pathetic.
Also... my dad had perfect pitch. When he was young only he and one jewish guy in city after test had perfect pitch. He loved classical music and operas. But also what seems hard to believe to many of you, he loved ABBA too and consider them to be brilliant pop band even though he despised majority of pop and rock music. He wasn't snob.. when he heard something he knew is it crap or not... it was that simple to him. He didn't ask 'experience listener' is crap he hears actually in 'reality' good music.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

nikola said:


> Unlike you, im not surprised with your comment. I was expecting that you will prove and show very soon your narrow mindness. All jazz snobs think that ABBA is crap. I woul be surprised if you would like anything with great harmonies for which you actually need real talent. Just continue to listen to your jazz sacred cows.


First of all, I love a lot of pop music, so if there's a snob it's you. 
Actually I love jazz exactly because the harmony is much more sophisticated than in pop music. And about ABBA I have absolutely nothing against them, I know only their most famous pieces. The fact is, that what I know of them is really harmonically basic and also incredibly smooth (do you want something more harmonically complex with extended chords and chromaticism look for Jobim, Ivan Lins, Steely Dan, Stevie Wonder, Edu Lobo or the composers of the great american songbook, Gerswhin, Cole Porter, Alec Wilder, Harold Arlen etc: jazz is based on large part of their song exactly because of that harmonic sophistication), and I thought that you were against that. So in two days you've said that Duke Ellington is basically crap, Kind of blue is tasteless, you hate everything that's smooth and after that I discover that the ultrasmooth ABBA are (in your opinion) harmonically complex and they are not just your favorite but the greatest pop band ever!
How can I take you seriously?


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

norman bates said:


> First of all, I love a lot of pop music, so if there's a snob it's you.
> Actually I love jazz exactly because the harmony is much more sophisticated than in pop music. And about ABBA I have absolutely nothing against them, I know only their most famous pieces. The fact is, that what I know of them is really harmonically basic and also incredibly smooth (do you want something more harmonically complex with extended chords and chromaticism look for Jobim, Ivan Lins, Steely Dan, Stevie Wonder, Edu Lobo or the composers of the great american songbook, Gerswhin, Cole Porter, Alec Wilder, Harold Arlen etc: jazz is based on large part of their song exactly because of that harmonic sophistication), and I thought that you were against that. So in two days you've said that Duke Ellington is basically crap, Kind of blue is tasteless, you hate everything that's smooth and after that I discover that the ultrasmooth ABBA are (in your opinion) harmonically complex and they are not just your favorite but the greatest pop band ever!
> How can I take you seriously?


First of all, thank GOD for not taking me seriously. I don't care. Get over yourself.
And 2nd thing. Steely Dan? I found their music dry. What is challenging there? They have some interesting and fine songs, but most of the time they are boring to listen to. Billy Joel's tribute song 'Zanzibar' to SD is even better than Steely Dan. Just because they are trying to make things more complicated, doesn't make them more complex or musically more talented than ABBA. Au contraire my dear friend. What ABBA was making in the root of their main melodies and song structures Steely Dan never made. 
ABBA were able to make something that The Beatles only started, but never acchieved completely in that way. 
I didn't say that Ellington is crap. That's your conclusion and you're free to make them if that amuses you.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

nikola said:


> First of all, thank GOD for not taking me seriously. I don't care. Get over yourself.
> And 2nd thing. Steely Dan? I found their music dry. What is challenging there?


The harmonies. And there's nothing wrong in that (My knowledge of theory is very limited too) but it's clear that you don't have a clue about what complex harmony means and what extended chords are and stuff like that.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

And to be more clear. When I talk about structural complexity of a SONG, I talk about VOCAL melody structure. You see Norman, if you can't hear something, it's impossible to explain then and I don't know why people who obviously can't hear many things in music most of the time are the loudest one in making statements.

The difference between Steely Dan and ABBA:
Vocal melody is what makes main melody in pop songs, right? If you want to talk about production and how fast and versatile your jazzy-pop Steely Dan can improvise in sections between vocal melody, you're right then... Steely Dan try to be more versatile here, but that doesn't make their vocal songs more complex and more challenging. That only makes them like many other jazz and rock musicians who like to noodle on their instruments. SD vocal melodies are actually quite flat, sometimes repetitive and mostly not interesting. They don't offer much with vocal melody that is actually the main ingredient of vocal songs. Just listen to song 'Do It Again'. They are repeating the same vocal melody line over and over and over again. It's not bad melody line, but it's nowhere near to ABBA... it's way too simple even comparing to many other pop songs. 

And THAT'S not what ABBA is doing. Their vocal melody structures are very complex and honestly, way more challenging and better than what Steely Dan could be ever able to offer. Just because they don't noodle, doesn't make them less challenging. Au contraire... they went deep into the essence of melodic strucutre to make it strong, full, creative and not that simple and predictable what we would expect from regular pop song. 

We 2 are talking about completely different things. If you can't hear what I'm talking about, then don't talk about ABBA. Talk about jazz or noodling or something else.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

As I mentioned earlier, this is one of the most complex pop song ever... or at least the song that doesn't sound because of it's complexity like something artsy-fartsy:
The Name of the Game

If you can't hear everything what is going on in this song on so many levels, then we could end this conversation. It's not even that much important how complex their music for pop was, but it's more important how brilliant and unique melody makers they were. Such complexity was just a nice bonus.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

nikola said:


> As I mentioned earlier, this is one of the most complex pop song ever... or at least the song that doesn't sound because of it's complexity like something artsy-fartsy:
> The Name of the Game
> 
> If you can't hear everything what is going on in this song on so many levels, then we could end this conversation. It's not even that much important how complex their music for pop was, but it's more important how brilliant and unique melody makers they were. Such complexity was just a nice bonus.


and smoothness, your arch-enemy does not count here?


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

nikola said:


> And to be more clear. When I talk about structural complexity of a SONG, I talk about VOCAL melody structure. You see Norman, if you can't hear something, it's impossible to explain then and I don't know why people who obviously can't hear many things in music most of the time are the loudest one in making statements.
> 
> The difference between Steely Dan and ABBA:
> Vocal melody is what makes main melody in pop songs, right? If you want to talk about production and how fast and versatile your jazzy-pop Steely Dan can improvise in sections between vocal melody, you're right then... Steely Dan try to be more versatile here, but that doesn't make their vocal songs more complex and more challenging. That only makes them like many other jazz and rock musicians who like to noodle on their instruments. SD vocal melodies are actually quite flat, sometimes repetitive and mostly not interesting. They don't offer much with vocal melody that is actually the main ingredient of vocal songs. Just listen to song 'Do It Again'. They are repeating the same vocal melody line over and over and over again. It's not bad melody line, but it's nowhere near to ABBA... it's way too simple even comparing to many other pop songs.
> ...


Allow me to interject. Being a huge admirer of Steely Dan I must set the record straight.
You, nikola, have cited 'Do it Again' which with the exception of 'Show Biz Kids' is probably the most repetitive of their songs. It is from their first album. Other songs from their first album such as 'Turn That Heartbeat Over Again' are melodically expansive and contain much variation and irregular phrasing.
There's nothing wrong with Abba, they were a good pop group who made some exceptionally well crafted pop records but SD are in a league of one so a comparison is quite useless. More importantly SD were never a pop group.

Complexity is just not important in music. Any music, not just pop music. Complexity is not an end in itself. And I find it peculiar that anyone should equate 'complex' and 'challenging' with 'better. Perhaps what we should say is that some music is more 'multi-layered than other music, with more 'going- on' in the foreground, middle ground and background. If we look at it that way then I'm afraid Steely Dan's output puts Abba's output well into the shade.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

norman bates said:


> and smoothness, your arch-enemy does not count here?


You think that those jazz pieces you posted yesterday are anything much more than fancy and glamouros snoozefest that can't overcome the term 'nice' in it's essence? 
To me it's music for one night stand girls who mistaken such schlock for real art and real emotions and who you can seduce with such music when you bring them home and light a candle along with a lovely dinner. You can even play that or Barry White before mating.

Play them something with guts *like this for example* or *this* from Michael Nyman so at least you will see if they earned place in your snobbish musical world in case they didn't escaped from you after hearing something they didn't expect and what they found 'weird'. 
You see, that's actually minimalist music that doesn't suck and it doesn't noodle. Something that you actually need a talent to make.

ABBA can be smooth and emotional at the same time. Everything that what you posted is not... at least not to me. Sorry. 
'Chiquitita' is emotional song.... 'The Winner Take It All' too. And many others. Don't mistake ABBA with smooth schlock since there is only one ABBA and there are thousands of players who play smooth jazz that sounds lifeless and same.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> Allow me to interject. Being a huge admirer of Steely Dan I must set the record straight.
> You, nikola, have cited 'Do it Again' which with the exception of 'Show Biz Kids' is probably the most repetitive of their songs. It is from their first album. Other songs from their first album such as 'Turn That Heartbeat Over Again' are melodically expansive and contain much variation and irregular phrasing.
> There's nothing wrong with Abba, they were a good pop group who made some exceptionally well crafted pop records but SD are in a league of one so a comparison is quite useless. More importantly SD were never a pop group.
> 
> Complexity is just not important in music. Any music, not just pop music. Complexity is not an end in itself. And I find it peculiar that anyone should equate 'complex' and 'challenging' with 'better. Perhaps what we should say is that some music is more 'multi-layered than other music, with more 'going- on' in the foreground, middle ground and background. If we look at it that way then I'm afraid Steely Dan's output puts Abba's output well into the shade.


I agree with that, but I just made a valid argument for those who mistaken ABBA for banal pop schlock. I'm not the one who started comparisions with Steely Dan. It's useless to compare those 2 bands. I can clearly hear Steely Dan's virtues and benefits, but they're not my cup of tea. At time I was listening to their records, but they didn't attract me much back. It's useless to compare apples and onions since musical premise and idea of both bands is completely different.

Of course that complex or layered doesn't necessarily mean good and I agree with that, but ABBA was all of that.. complex and brilliant. 
I can take for example Brahms 'Lullaby'. It's simple, yet it's brilliant composition. On the other hand, there are many complex classical compositions that I either love or find boring or unlistenable.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

nikola said:


> You think that those jazz pieces you posted yesterday are anything much more than fancy and glamouros snoozefest that can't overcome the term 'nice' in it's essence?
> To me it's music for one night stand girls who mistaken such schlock for real art and real emotions and who you can seduce with such music when you bring them home and light a candle along with a lovely dinner. You can even play that or Barry White before mating.


Do you mean those Ellington compositions I've posted? And that "I didn't say that Ellington is crap"? :lol:


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Wait . . . Yanni is not jazz? As long as he isn't Greek, I am ok with that I suppose.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Morimur said:


> Wait . . . Yanni is not jazz? As long as he isn't Greek, I am ok with that I suppose.


Nobody is quite sure, but we can make a thread here to ask people if Yanni is classical music, so we can make fun of him. Then, repeat that on reggae, metal and other forums.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Morimur said:


> Wait . . . Yanni is not jazz?


who cares, he's so much better than Ellington


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

norman bates said:


> who cares, he's so much better than Ellington
> View attachment 64755


You finaly spoken truth. Do you want to be my friend? We can together pick some flowers.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

nikola said:


> You finaly spoken truth.


especially with the picture of patrick bateman.:lol:


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

norman bates said:


> especially with the picture of patrick bateman.:lol:


You're obsessed with psychopats obviously considering your nickname too. If you're true psychopat you would listen to Phil Collins just like Patrick.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

For me this discussions reminds me of so many that occur in this esteem forum. ABBA violates all of the canons of musical esthetics that I live by, yet I really enjoy their music. Why? I do not have the foggiest idea. 

I enjoy Andrew Lloyd Webber even though he a rabid plagiarist.

The older I get the more I realize that there is two types of music in the world, there is music we like and there is music we dislike. Who cares if we like music that may be mundane. Our ears and our hearts is the final judge not some long winded pseudo-intellectual exercise in semantics or rhetoric.

There is one issue about ABBA that drives me nuts. I wonder if there are any others like me. I enjoy ABBA but I hate _Mama Mia_.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

I love 'Mamma Mia'... I think there is actually not a song by ABBA that I hate, but I do find for example a few songs below their capabilites:
Put on Your White Sombrero - sounds like some german pop-folk schlock from 80's
Kisses on Fire - I'm simply not crazy about this one... 
The King Has Lost His Crown - now this is really weird song... I don't understand what they tried to to with that melody, especially chorus... sounds like they raped lyrics with that melody.
She's My Kind of Girl - sounds like something from 60's.. really cliche of little song
Suzy-Hang-Around - also one of their earliest...this sounds like one popular band from 60's... maybe Byrds... it's nice, but somehow flat and I don't care much about it.

Ok, there are maybe some more I don't like much, but far from being bad or mediocre.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

arpeggio said:


> For me this discussions reminds me of so many that occur in this esteem forum. ABBA violates all of the canons of musical esthetics that I live by, yet I really enjoy their music. Why? I do not have the foggiest idea.
> 
> I enjoy Andrew Lloyd Webber even though he a rabid plagiarist.
> 
> The older I get the more I realize that there is two types of music in the world, there is music we like and there is music we dislike. Who cares if we like music that may be mundane. Our ears and our hearts is the final judge not some long winded pseudo-intellectual exercise in semantics or rhetoric.


I remember when I was probably only 4 or 5 years old before going to school, at evening the movie started and I watched it with my parents. I remember it because of only 1 thing and I don't remember anything else. I remember only hearing this intro:





In my small child brain I only knew that I was so much moved by Moon River melody that I can't forget even today that moment. It was like discovery of pure emotion, tenderness, love and beauty. I was so little and yet so touched like never before. As I grow up my taste evolved, changed, I learned to like something that I didn't before and I can like many different kinds of music, but Moon River can never keep me indifferent.
I guess that was the earliest and probably the most honest reaction I had in my entire life. I didn't even know what music actually is. The only thing I knew that while listening to it I was experiencing something that words can't describe. I remember that feeling. And that's it. The whole intellectual machinery after that can't convince me that something I can't feel at all is better.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Out today :angel:


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

My favourite ABBA song: I'm A Marionette (from _The Album_, 1977).






Oh, and btw: ABBA isn't a guilty pleasure to me. In music and art, pleasures shouldn't be guilty anyway.


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