# SS 20.07.13 - Mahler #2



## Bix

*Gustav Mahler (1860 - 1911)*

Symphony # 2 'The Resurrection'

1. Allegro maestoso
2. Andante moderato
3. In ruhig fließender Bewegung
4. Urlicht - Sehr feierlich, aber schlicht
5. Im Tempo des Scherzos

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## Bix

I've only ever listened to this once before and that was two weeks ago, so this is going to be discovery for me.

I'm going to listen to Bernstein conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.


Voices: Sheila Armstrong, Janet Bakers, Edinburgh Festival Chorus


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## Air

Bernstein / NYPO


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## Bix

Air said:


> Bernstein / NYPO


It will be good to compare the NYPO against LSO with the same conductor.


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## Air

Bix said:


> It will be good to compare the NYPO against LSO with the same conductor.


I'll be able to do that if you buy me a free copy of the Bernstein / LSO.


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## Bix

Air said:


> I'll be able to do that if you buy me a free copy of the Bernstein / LSO.


The only Mahler I own, symphony wise, is the first - I'm youtubing it with this one. Maybe from this thread I will figure out which version I might purchase.


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## Air

Bix said:


> The only Mahler I own, symphony wise, is the first - I'm youtubing it with this one. Maybe from this thread I will figure out which version I might purchase.


That's fine. Too much is made sometimes of owning music... it's really about listening and enjoying it. Anyways, I own three versions of Mahler 2 - Mehta/Israeli, Mehta/VPO, and Bernstein/NYPO. Introductory-wise, I'd pick Mehta/VPO, which isn't ponderously slow and bipolar like Bernstein's recording (I assume that his tempi can be off-putting). But once you become more familiar with the symphony, Bernstein (and conductors like Klemperer) are the way to go. They give you a fresh listen each time.


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## ptr

Janet Baker, Mezzo & Rae Woodland, Soprano; BBC Chorus and Choral Society, London Symphony Orchestra u. Leopold Stokowski

Mr Magic in Mahler has never been a first choice for me, have had this disc for ages, but can't remember ever listening to it! A fun promisere this will be! 

/ptr


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## Ondine

Great. I will go with:

Klaus Tennstedt and the London Philharmonic Orchestra. 1982.


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## realdealblues

I will go with my personal favorite:

Otto Klemperer and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra. Live in Munich 1965 with Heather Harper and Janet Baker as soloists.
View attachment 21458


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## Rehydration

Seiji Ozawa and the Saito Kinen Orchestra (2000).
Emika Suga, Soprano
Nathalie Stutzmann, Contralto
Shinyukai Chorus (Shin Sekiya, Chorus Master)







Japanese orchestras have been my favorite since the Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary CD.


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## Guest

realdealblues said:


> I will go with my personal favorite:
> 
> Otto Klemperer and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra. Live in Munich 1965 with Heather Harper and Janet Baker as soloists.
> View attachment 21458


This, too, is my all-time favorite. I have several and have listened to many more, and this remains my favorite. It has the edge over the other Klemperer on EMI (in the GROC series) in that it is a live recording.

I also have the Bernstein with NYPO (DG), and the Mehta with Wiener Philharmoniker (Decca). My second favorite is the Mehta, and then Bernstein. There are many great recordings to try of this work:
In addition to what I have already said, these come to mind







Slatkin's recording on Telarc was actually my introduction to this symphony, and is very well done.







Rattle's earlier EMI recording with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra is very good - better than his more recent recording.


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## Bix

DrMike, are you going to choose one and join our Saturday Symphony programme - it comes with a bottle of Sangiovese. 

Obrigado


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## Guest

No thanks - I'm working this Saturday, and don't drink wine. But I will be with you in spirit - I listen to this symphony quite a bit.


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## Skilmarilion

I have meaning to really delve into Mahler 2. The only recording I have is Klemperer with the Philarmonia Orchestra, 1962.

I'll try and spend some quality time with this soon, if not tomorrow.


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## Celloman

Ditto. I've got the Klemperer with Philharmonia. Good choice on a symphony, by the way!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I'm going to listen to the incredible Abravanel version later today!


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## MagneticGhost

I'm busy this weekend so won't be able to join you in listening to - what to me, is - the single greatest work of music conceived by humankind. 
I would probably listen on spotify to a performance I've not heard. Perhaps Solti!
I need an hour and a half completely uninterrupted and that's just not happening today. 

Enjoy transcending the petty and mundane folks! I'll read your findings with interest


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## neoshredder

Sounds exciting! I'm in. I'll make sure to have the lights off. Makes music more enjoyable for me. Going with Vladimir Jurowski.


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## neoshredder

I work tomorrow night. So tonight will be my Mahler night.


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## techniquest

I'm going this recording: Oleg Caetani with the Robert-Schumann-Philharmonie


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## AClockworkOrange

Tennstedt & the London Philharmonic Orchestra in a live performance.

View attachment 21484


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## AClockworkOrange

neoshredder said:


> Sounds exciting! I'm in. I'll make sure to have the lights off. Makes music more enjoyable for me. Going with Vladimir Jurowski.


neoshredder, I don't know if you'll be able to answer, but how does Jurowski's reading compare with Tennstedt's?


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## DeepR

I've heard this symphony too often.

You could also listen to this one by Dudamel. 
The slow finale takes getting used to. I think it's a great performance. The sound is fantastic.


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## Bix

Just finished listening - as I said earlier, this is my second listening of Mahler's second symphony, ever.

Overall the LSO and Berstein produced a balanced performance, during parts I thought the harps could have been more pronounced, but not having the score in front of me I wouldn't be able to tell if that was intentional. The choir were rather good and the soloists very good, I think Janet Baker is great.

For the symphony itself, it is tremendous and I will look to purchase a copy.


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## neoshredder

AClockworkOrange said:


> neoshredder, I don't know if you'll be able to answer, but how does Jurowski's reading compare with Tennstedt's?


Both sound great. I'm not sure the differences as I'm not an expert on interpretations.


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## AClockworkOrange

neoshredder said:


> Both sound great. I'm not sure the differences as I'm not an expert on interpretations.


Thanks for that, I was just curious as I have heard mixed reviews of the piece.


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## Guest

Doing Klemperer's performance over here...I'm finding Mahler much more enjoyable in other symphonies including this and the 5th since trying and failing to wrap my head around the 3rd.


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## Celloman

I wonder if anyone has checked out Tony Duggan's insightful survey:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler2.htm

Tony has really done his homework. I often visit this website when I'm looking for good performances of Mahler's symphonies/song cycles.


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## realdealblues

Celloman said:


> I wonder if anyone has checked out Tony Duggan's insightful survey:
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler2.htm
> 
> Tony has really done his homework. I often visit this website when I'm looking for good performances of Mahler's symphonies/song cycles.


I bought the Klemperer recording I just finished listening to based on Tony's review and it quickly became my favorite. I was so sad to hear of Tony's passing last year. I didn't agree with him on every little thing but his knowledge of not only Mahler, but Bruckner & Wagner recordings was amazing. He is truly missed.

As I said I just finished listening to my Saturday Symphony of Mahler's 2nd performed by Otto Klemperer and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, live in Munich 1965 with Heather Harper and Janet Baker as soloists.

While Klemperer's studio recording is one of the absolute best, and being a studio recording is a better quality recording, he takes extra "space" in just the right parts of this live recording that he didn't take in the studio recording. It just seems to have a fantastic flow throughout. The singing is great and while the sound is not "perfect", it's certainly more than listenable even for someone like myself who isn't a great fan of live recordings. Mahler's 2nd is one of my favorite works and listening to this recording again today reminded me how wonderful it truly is.


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## Ondine

It has been my second listening to Mahler's 'Resurrection' and with a careful and close attention to it I have discovered that this symphony is absolutely beautiful getting the impression that it is a kind of logical continuation from his first, one of my favourites.

It can be felt too, that this symphony is getting into the realms of a more 'contemporary' language having one foot in the first, more romantic and coloured, and the other into a more expansive and contrasted (less colours but more contrast) and an apparent fragmentation as a logical consequence of that expansion but not leaving 'emptiness' between the fragments but subtleness of sound.

This second listening has been one of absolute joy.


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## ptr

Started listening to the 1963 Proms Concert recording yesterday but was unfortunately interrupted by my ever visiting relatives with distended attitude towards music (July is a month of hell for me!  ).

Restarted from the top this morning (Sorry for the non Saturday finish!), There is something about this concert, something about how Mr Stokowski shapes every phrase into something special without loosing his grip on the larger shapes that are so important in Mahler's music. Miss's Woodland and Baker both perform remarkably well, where Baker just radiates Mahler! The Mono suound is better then serviceable, but is still something one has to be prepared to listen through to accept this recording (if such is an issue for You!).

Klemperer and Barbirolli are still my fave cond's for the Ressurection, but Mr Stokowski is growing on me fast!

/ptr


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I found this symphony less accessible to my ears than the seventh because within a single movement I found less contrast, it was more the same character a lot of the time and the melodies seemed a little less memorable to me. It took me a number of listens to really "get" this work and now I really love it.


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## Ondine

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I found this symphony less accessible to my ears than the seventh because within a single movement I found less contrast, it was more the same character a lot of the time and the melodies seemed a little less memorable to me. It took me a number of listens to really "get" this work and now I really love it.


Similar case ComposerOfAvantGarde. Being seventh the one I found most beautiful -having listened once each of them-, with this second listening to 'Resurrection' I was surprised how much I enjoyed a Symphony that I thought it was weak and dull, which it is not.


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## Trumpetcat

I LOVE NO. 2. Opposite of dull. And yeah I usually never like anything at first but then it becomes my favorite.  In fact I love almost anything Mahler. He strangely helps when you're pissed/in a bad mood.


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## techniquest

Robert-Schumann-Philharmonie / Oleg Caetani ARTS, live recording , 10/11 November 1999.

This recording comes in 2 forms - standard CD on 2 discs, and dvd-audio on 1. It is described as an audiophile product with no compression, no equalisation and recorded 24bit/96kHz and on the dvd version, the sound quality is superb but very dry. 
That being said, the opening really is quite horrible with what sound like 2 or 3 cellos & basses and something that occasionally doesn't sound quite in tune...in fact it takes the Robert Schumann Philharmonie some time to get 'warmed up'. In general the tempo is quite slow, and there are rather too many forced rests which make the overall structure somewhat disjointed. The sul ponticello tremolo in the strings just after the two big tam-tam crashes is really effective in this recording. Towards the end of the first movement there is a quiet section with trumpet, then oboe / flute then horns / strings and it is really lovely, gentle, restful with the string glissandi not exaggerated, but just sounding as natural as anything can be. This rescues the whole 1st movement for me.
The second movement is again a tad slow, particularly in the second subject. Sometimes this sounds almost like a chamber orchestra (maybe it is, I don't know) and the brass have just a touch of 'Salvation Army' about them at times (actually more so in the first movement), but when the pizzicato section comes in the harp is nicely woven in. However at just over 11 minutes, it's a long take on this movement.
The third is much more lively at just the right speed and with a lovely deep bass drum. I would prefer a more advanced woodwind sound in this movement, but it isn't there. Also, there seem to be a couple of very poorly done edits.
Urlicht - the Salvation Army brass is back along with Monika Straube who sounds as though she's struggling with it - loud higher notes and very quiet low notes - not a good balance. Nice oboe and harp though.
A rip-roaring opening to the 5th and it's like the orchestra has at long last been able to pull out the stops! The volume dies down very effectively to a long silence before very distant off-stage horns. This is careful, exquisite playing with a huge amount of control - all those triplets never run away with themselves. The brass chorale leading to the big theme is taken slowly, steadily, but this time it sounds like a cohesive orchestra section! The second percussion crescendo is slightly fluffed by a snare drum that ends a millisecond too soon, and the whole following section, although good, sounds a little on the light side and has another of those odd-sounding edits at a marked sudden tempo change (good bells though). And so enters the choir sounding fuller and heavier than some which is good, and the orchestra interludes are very well handled; the soprano Helene Bernardy sounds far more at home, gently pushing forward where necessary, but never overwhelming. Everything prior to 'O Glaube' is simply heavenly. 'O Glaube' itself is only slightly marred by Monika Straube (I do hope she was only having an off day). From this point on the performance is, for my take on M2, perfect. It is the one which, at the climax of the final choir chord with the huge tam-tam and entry of the bells and big organ chords and brass, literally makes my eyes water. Yet it still, gently, calmly dies away to rich but refined organ sounds until, after the timp / pedal resurrection scale, the final chords are reached with big bells, a spacious wall of sound, vast, swinging tam-tams that splash from the speakers....Wow!! Only a few seconds after the end do you realise that this is a live recording as a fairly unappreciative-sounding audience pipes in with a bit of subdued clapping.
Ok, maybe it's that last movement that does it for me, after all the others are not the best by any means. If you get the chance, give it a listen - treat yourself to that 5th movement and behold the Resurrection ending to end all Resurrection endings.


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## Avey

I didn't see any mention of it, but my preferred recording -- the one I _recognize_ this work by -- is Zubin Mehta with the Vienna Philharmonic, 1975 recording. It's such a clean, paced recording -- all on a single disc nonetheless. I highly recommend it to all who have not heard it.


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## realdealblues

Avey said:


> I didn't see any mention of it, but my preferred recording -- the one I _recognize_ this work by -- is Zubin Mehta with the Vienna Philharmonic, 1975 recording. It's such a clean, paced recording -- all on a single disc nonetheless. I highly recommend it to all who have not heard it.


My gripe with Mehta's recording is the same as Tony Duggan's was:

"One minor gripe here and it's something that has always annoyed me in this recording. A double bar line separates the last chord of the flute and piccolo on stage and the brass off stage from the entry of the chorus _a capella_. Mehta ignores this and has his chorus enter at the moment the instruments stop playing. Apart from ignoring Mahler's marking this spoils the effect Mahler was clearly aiming for and I cannot understand why Mehta did this."


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## Ondine

Trumpetcat said:


> I LOVE NO. 2. Opposite of dull. And yeah I usually never like anything at first but then it becomes my favorite.  In fact I love almost anything Mahler. He strangely helps when you're pissed/in a bad mood.


Yes. Between other things, that is what I am finding in his music. I had some difficult issues along the week and listening to Mahler makes me feel a lot more better. I know -gut feeling- that there is something there in his symphonic oeuvre that I can't still define and I love that sort of 'mystery' in music.


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## ShaunRoche

I have said in an earlier post that one generally looks back on the first recording of a piece that one hears and becomes used to, is the piece that always sounds the most correct or what every other recording is compared against.

Well this is definitely the case here!

My first recording of this is Raphael Kubelik's with the Bavarian Radio SO, with Edith Mathis and Norma Proctor and it is the one from which all my references are made.

At one point, the closest recording I have come to like, alongside the above, is Rattle's recording with the CBSO....the one I dislike the most was a Solti recording I seem to remember....will try and find it to compare now...

Now, this next comment may solicit some interesting reactions!......one of my more favourite recordings is now the Gilbert Kaplan one with I think, the VPO from 2003.

I have seen him conduct this twice now, one with the Halle in Manchester (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2003/may/20/classicalmusicandopera.artsfeatures) and once with the NYP in New York......both were sublime frankly despite the unhelpful and frankly peevish comments from some members of the latter! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/arts/music/18kapl.html?_r=0

The lengthy ovation and applause at the end of the performance that night, that night did not suggest a rudderless performance btw!

Kaplan's approach of the first movement I remember was breathtaking and very different in tempi and phrasing.

I would be very interested if anyone else has come across these two specific recordings and have an opinion.

Out of interest, the most recent live performance was again at the Halle with Juanjo Mena, which I thoroughly enjoyed...certainly a more intelligent reading than most!

http://www.bachtrack.com/review-bbc-philharmonic-mahler-2

The least inspiring was with Andris Nelsons at the Sage on Gateshead...more about him jumping about like a wild thing, performing, than letting the music do its thing....

Not the same concert, but the same vibe for sure...http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/may/29/cbso-nelsons-review

Would be interested in hearing peoples' thoughts!


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## Guest

So I listened to it belatedly. I chose to listen to the Mehta recording. I enjoyed it - there are few that I have heard that I have not enjoyed - but it just seems like there wasn't as much fire in it as with the Klemperer recording with the BRSO. Still, never a bad time listening to this symphony.


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## techniquest

> Now, this next comment may solicit some interesting reactions!......one of my more favourite recordings is now the Gilbert Kaplan one with I think, the VPO from 2003.


I can't get along with the two commercial recordings that Kaplan has made, but I really like his live performance at the Stockholm Mahler cycle in 2010


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## FLighT

ShaunRoche said:


> I have said in an earlier post that one generally looks back on the first recording of a piece that one hears and becomes used to, is the piece that always sounds the most correct or what every other recording is compared against.


Very true it's tough to displace first loves, (although I've done it many times over the years with many works) they become the benchmark. For each of his symphonies but the 8th I have at least 3 favorite recordings. Each illuminates different aspects of the score in different ways. I can't think of another composer whose works can be interpreted with so many different approaches and still be a great listening experience.

Don't discount Walter/NYPO.


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## MagneticGhost

techniquest said:


> I can't get along with the two commercial recordings that Kaplan has made, but I really like his live performance at the Stockholm Mahler cycle in 2010


I never had any problem with Kaplan. Thought his 1st Mahler 2 was eminently acceptable. 
It was I think the first CD I ever bought. 
And it was the second version I'd heard, having been playing it with my youth orchestra at the time.


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## Rehydration

I'm quite happy with the results of my listening. You can check out my commentary in my most recent blog post.


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## Rehydration

Whoops. _Now_ go check out my newest blog post. Sorry about that . . .


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## JimX

Been listening to Jansons / RCO's live recordings.


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## Bix

JimX said:


> Been listening to Jansons / RCO's live recordings.


and how do you find them in comparison to other recordings?

Hi by the way and welcome to TC


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## nightscape

I enjoy Slatkin/St. Louis quite a bit. That's the one I keep coming back to.


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## Cosmos

I just listened to this symphony last night. *Sigh* gets me every time. 
Anyway the only recording I own is of the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra conducted by Leonard Slatkin.










Honestly I need to stop thinking about the music or I'm going to end up listening to it at least three more times today :lol: It's probably my favorite symphony at the moment


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## leomarillier

Gergiev right now. Quite slow and impressive, very good sound quality, good percussive qualities.
I have the good Klemperer '62, but his '50 live in Sydney is incredible, my favorite.
Mehta/VPO is to too much of a blockbuster, not enough psychology and craziness.


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## DaDirkNL

Rafael Kubelik with the Symphonieorchester der Bayerischen Rundfunks, it's the only one I have.


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## leepee

Bruno Walter ... a beautiful old warhorse .... loaded with love as is all his work.


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## starthrower

Bix said:


> Just finished listening - as I said earlier, this is my second listening of Mahler's second symphony, ever.
> 
> Overall the LSO and Berstein produced a balanced performance, during parts I thought the harps could have been more pronounced, but not having the score in front of me I wouldn't be able to tell if that was intentional. The choir were rather good and the soloists very good, I think Janet Baker is great.
> 
> For the symphony itself, it is tremendous and I will look to purchase a copy.


I didn't know about that recording. Looks like a Japanese Import. About 15 dollars and change at CD Japan. BTW, this vendor is excellent. They take great care in packaging your order. CDs arrive from Japan in perfect condition every time.


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## nightscape

Listened to Blomstedt/San Francisco last week. Very underrated.


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## Vaneyes

As are Scherchen and Suitner, my two favorites.


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## DiesIraeCX

For me it's Klemperer and Mehta. Phenomenal recordings, the both of them.


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## hpowders

Zubin Mehta, NY Philharmonic, live, Maureen Forrester, Kathleen Battle.


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## Triplets

Claudio Abbado/Chicago SO


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## techniquest

I've got the recording of this live performance from the Colorado MahlerFest. They brought in real railroad engine bells for the finale as can be seen (and heard) here:


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