# Rachmaninoff and Mozart?



## CSJ (May 1, 2013)

I enjoy classical music but do not play myself, so my "technical" insight is somewhat limited, perhaps you people can help me out: The beginning of Rachmaninoffs 3. piano concert and the beginning of Mozart 20th sounds somewhat alike to me, but I can find nowhere where a comparison has been mentioned. 
What I find alike is the omnious sounding background intro (string intruments in both cases) and the following first theme; with Rachmaninoff piano, with Mozart continuing with a different string instrument. 
Both "intro"s are followed by some sort of rapid break (like I said, I dont know the technical terms), Rachmaninoff after ca. 54 seconds and Mozart after ca. 30.

Can there be some inspiration from Mozart in the Rachmaninoff piece or is this just coincidence?

Here are two youtube links, Rachmaninoff first:









Thanks!


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Both is written in the key D minor


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Ravndal said:


> Both is written in the key D minor


I don't think that's it though. I have never thought of this before, but it seems to me the OP does make an interesting point. The two melodies are at least as similar as some of Rachmaninov's variations on Paganini's theme are to the the original theme. 

As for the key, the listener either happens to know that because he's a musical geek (which I don't think either I or the OP is) or because he has perfect pitch and can hear it (I don't have anything remotely approaching perfect pitch and couldn't possibly tell the difference between D minor and G minor or, for that matter, C flat minor). And as far as I know, the definition of pitches were different in Mozart's day anyway; if he heard his work performed today it may well all sound to him like it's being played in the wrong key.

Thus I doubt if it's just the key that leads to the similarity.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

In both intros, the melody features a stepwise decent from the third to the first scale degrees over an accompaniment that alternates between tonic and dominant. They're close, no doubt about it, but they don't sound all that similar to me after the few first few seconds or so.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

I've never really related them to each other before, probably because the the piano comes in so much earlier in the Rachmaninoff than in the Mozart. However, I can see what the OP is saying about the ominous sounding string parts at the very beginning. Actually, the first similarity that came to my mind was, like Ravndal said, the key, which really can play a role in subconsciously relating the two pieces to each other, especially when the two beginnings are heard back to back. 

I'm not sure what is meant by "rapid break", but I think those may just be some elaborations on the first theme.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Slightly off topic, but:








To answer your question though, the orchestra in both have a similar syncopated "motor" rhythm, and the melodies have an extremely similar construction. I'd be very surprised if Rach 3 wasn't inspired by Mozart 20.


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## CSJ (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies! The similarity, to me, is definitely there, but I guess whether its strong enough to be said to be a direct "quote" is still up in the air?

"Rapid breaks", I just meant the fast-paced piano that starts, with the Rachmaninoff, just before the minute mark.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

StevenOBrien said:


> Slightly off topic, but:


Holy crap that scared me. But it was kind of adorable. :lol:


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