# The most significant difference between players



## dstring (May 14, 2013)

I've interwieved many artists – both experienced and young "rising stars". Some of them seem to think deeply about music and what they are doing whereas others seemingly just do what they do because they are talented and they have been practising the profession a lot.

I state this difference is clearly hearable.

Now I find myself segregating artists whenever I'm listening to music.
Group A: the ones I think are truly in the music as an artform.
Group B: the ones I think are at least trying to go deeper.
Group C: Players who can't find and are not even trying to find the deepness. (They can still be very skilled players.)

Let's say the basic skills of playing an instrument are mastered by everyone I listen to. Intonation is good and hard parts of the pieces make no difficulties. After that the only thing that matters is what I told above: How deep are they willing to go. Actually I think small to mediocre differences between players technical abilities are insignificant compared to the differences in their minds.

Can you hear the difference?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes. It's a certain "mechanical" quality in the playing. It's also a tendency to overemphasise the technicalities - to show off the personal technique rather than the music.


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## edge (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm a big West Wing fan and in the commentary to the "Noel" episode, where Yo Yo Ma plays the prelude to Bach's Cello Suite No. 1, Martin Sheen said that he had to do it probably 10 times to get all of the shots right and every time he seemed to play it with the same intensity and emotion. He was very impressed that he could keep it up for that many takes.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

I would find it helpful to hear examples of skilled but "mechanical" playing.


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## dstring (May 14, 2013)

apricissimus said:


> I would find it helpful to hear examples of skilled but "mechanical" playing.


I'll post examples from both later today. Thanks for the request.


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## JohannesBrahms (Apr 22, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Yes. It's a certain "mechanical" quality in the playing. It's also a tendency to overemphasise the technicalities - to show off the personal technique rather than the music.


You are exactly right, Taggart. The playing becomes mechanical because the player is showing what they can do. Instead of wanting to play music, they just want to show off their abilities. Nobody likes a showoff. This is why I like Claudio Arrau. Listening to him, you never think about the difficulty of the piece. He never tried to show off his technical ability. As amazing as it was, he always used it to play music, not to show off.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

So how does a player who is very skilled and can play the score exactly right manage not to "show off"?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

apricissimus said:


> So how does a player who is very skilled and can play the score exactly right manage not to "show off"?


Listen to Glen Gould's (original) Goldberg variations.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Listen to Glen Gould's (original) Goldberg variations.


I have, but I'm not sure what you mean.


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

Also, not everyone can do what Glenn Gould could do, and that's okay.


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

I have to be really familiar with a piece of music before I can pick up on the sublte differences between interpretations, and even then it would be a challenge.

As an example, I own 4 different versions of Schubert's piano sonata #21 (Uchida, Brendel, Kempf, and some French guy who's name I am drawing a blank at the moment.) If I were to subject myself to a blind hearing of all four performances, I highly doubt I could identify which was which.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

EricABQ said:


> I have to be really familiar with a piece of music before I can pick up on the sublte differences between interpretations, and even then it would be a challenge.
> 
> As an example, I own 4 different versions of Schubert's piano sonata #21 (Uchida, Brendel, Kempf, and some French guy who's name I am drawing a blank at the moment.) If I were to subject myself to a blind hearing of all four performances, I highly doubt I could identify which was which.


That would be only one objective of a 'blind hearing', eh? It could be interesting to learn if the effectiveness and 'slant' of an interpretation is affected by your knowledge of its performer.


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> That would be only one objective of a 'blind hearing', eh? It could be interesting to learn if the effectiveness and 'slant' of an interpretation is affected by your knowledge of its performer.


Well, I think it has been proven that wine tasters can be tricked into raving about a poor quality wine if it is disguised as a well respected brand. It woud be interesting to know if music lovers could be fooled in the same way.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

apricissimus said:


> I would find it helpful to hear examples of skilled but "mechanical" playing.


Mark-Andre Hamelin, piano. (there will be contentious squawks about that citation, but I am far from alone in that opinion. "Keyboard Typist" is a widespread sobriquet for this player. One TC member said it is a very different story when Hamelin plays live, but the recordings are all I've got to go on.)


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

EricABQ said:


> Well, I think it has been proven that wine tasters can be tricked into raving about a poor quality wine if it is disguised as a well respected brand. It would be interesting to know if music lovers could be fooled in the same way.


I can tell you for a fact that drinking a cheap(ish) bottle of dry white wine (from, say, Croatia) will taste quite different when sampling the wine a) on a rainy November day in dreary (nausea-inducing) towns called Chouxville and b) when suitably chilled, in the early evening on the coast of Croatia in high summer.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Mark-Andre Hamelin, piano. (there will be contentious squawks about that citation, but I am far from alone in that opinion. "Keyboard Typist" is a widespread sobriquet for this player. One TC member said it is a very different story when Hamelin plays live, but the recordings are all I've got to go on.)


If you think Hamelin's Alkan is 'typist', you are a victim of your prejudice.


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## JohannesBrahms (Apr 22, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Mark-Andre Hamelin, piano. (there will be contentious squawks about that citation, but I am far from alone in that opinion. "Keyboard Typist" is a widespread sobriquet for this player. One TC member said it is a very different story when Hamelin plays live, but the recordings are all I've got to go on.)


Go to Youtube and listen to some of his live performances. He sounds just as mechanical live as he does in the studio.


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## dstring (May 14, 2013)

I'm sorry I didn't manage to put examples yet. I've been really busy.

For the group B to C mentioned in OP I have to dig deeper, but to group A it's easy to add names. The following video is a perfect example of what I mean by the whole topic since I have quite different opinion about the piece of music and about the interpretation. I also don't like the artist's vibrato - it's too rapid. Even though he lacks some skills and has some opinions I don't like, he's playing is truly inside the music and the artform!


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