# What Do You Think Of Chandos Opera In English ?



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I recently borrowed the excellent Chandos CD of Puccini's Turandot sung in a pretty good English translation, with Jane Eaglen and Dennis O'Neill , plus no less than Nicolai Gedda as the aged emperor , conducted by David Parry with the Philharmonia orchestra from my library . I can't recall the name of the transltor, but hearing Puccini in English, although it sounds a bit odd to ears accustomed to the original Italian at first ,is not at all unpleasant .
Others from this opera in English series on Chandos I've heard include Mackerras conducting The Magic Flute,
Makropoulos case, Jenufa, Hansel&Gretel, Richard Armstrong leading Ariadne auf Naxos, Rattle's Cunning Little Vixen(originally on EMI ) ,Paul Daniel conducting Falstaff ,Parry conducting The Flying Dutchman,
conducting Don Pasquale, Mackerras conducting Janacek's Osud (fate),originally on EMI , and I've just borrowed from my library Mackerras conducting La Traviata and Yehudi Menuhin conducting The Abduction from the Serraglio, which I haven't heard yet .
While they might not be the ultimate in terms of singing , none has been less than good .
The diction on these sets is so good I don't need to follow with the libretto in the booklets .
Has anybody else here heard any of these, and what do you think about them ?
There many others in this series I haven't heard but would like to . These include Otello, Aida, Don Carlo,
Rigoletto , Ernani, La Boheme,Tosca, Madama Butterly, Barber of Seville, Goodall's Ring (half of which I'heard on LP long ago), Salome and other operas .


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Opera is a mean of expression. To understand an opera one must comprehend about what is being sung. In theory, i agree with translations. Before WWII italian operas were translated in german in german speaking countries. The other way around was applied in Italy (thus having the great Melchior singing Otello in german).

However with the technology, most opera houses have subtitles and so opera can ben performed in its original language without menacing one's understanding.

Normally i prefer in its original language but i'm not against having it translated. I've seen Don Giovanni in english and The magic flute and La Boheme in portuguese (my native language). Yeah...it's strange. Specially in portugese. It's easier to sing with brazilian accent, but with Portugal accent it is very difficult (and truly artful).

As long it is for the purpose of understanding the play, and not just for the ridiculousness of gaining more visability (as most of pop singers today prefer to sing in english than their own language), i don't have any trouble with that.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Goodall's Ring of the Nibelung is excellent. When you can understand the words in your native language, jokes are actually funny. There's something about translating a joke that kills it. Siegfried's first act in English is much more fun than in German.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I've only heard a few of this series. It's a great idea to at least have that option of an English language version but the results seem a little hit and miss. The Goodall ring is great despite not having the perfect sound of the more recent recordings in the series and _The Magic Flute_ in English is perhaps my favourite recording of that opera. _Osud_ and _Faust_ are pretty good but I thought that _Pagliacci_ and _The Barber of Seville_ were both fairly poor. Dull sounding, tending to drag on with not particularly inspired singing often, and in the case of _Pagliacci_ you hear more clearly what cheesy melodrama it is. I'd still like to hear more of them, probably one of the Berg operas would be my next choice.


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## Guest (May 24, 2013)

I heard a couple a few years past but can't recall what they were and yes it is much better if you know what is going on.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Well, we've got two parallel subjects here... 1- how about operas in English? and 2- how about the Chandos recordings?

Re. operas in English, if the translation is a good one, I say that's okay, and as was pointed out, operas have been translated into the vernacular for a long time. But as was also mentioned, supertitles (surtitles) obviate the need for translation and the rhythm of the original language libretto is then preserved. But sometimes, also, a translation may be a treat, especially I'm thinking about Julie Taymor's Christmas version of the Magic Flute for the Met, which is also an abbreviated production. But I've seen it on TV and bought the DVD and it's great fun. That's of course a special case.

Re. the Chandos CDs, some are okay, some aren't, and not just because of the English but that the conductor or singers weren't right for the music.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

I am of two minds about translations. On the one hand, knowing what is being sung and getting into the story is very important. I can enjoy the music if I don't know the language, but only to a point. 

On the other hand translations are problematic. For me, the sound of the language is part of the music. The music is written around the languages flow and rhythms. The libretisist wrote the words to sound a particular way, as any good poet would, and the composer wrote the music with those sounds in mind. Changing the language changes the music as a whole. 

Sometimes, it is jarring to hear in your own language, something that was intended for another. What was a sublime duet becomes as mundane as listening to a weather report. 

Getting one language to do what another does easily can produce, perhaps unintentional, humor. Because of it's abundance of vowels, Italian can rip along a good clip. German on the other hand (or even worse, Russian), not being blessed with as many vowels per word, is harder to get the mouth moving quite so fast. I have an old Seraphim recording of the Marriage of Figaro in German. All the singers are excellent but they have a very hard time enunciating the very rapid parts that Mozart wrote in Italian. 
Since Mozart wrote in German, Italian and Latin it is interesting to see what he does in each language. He does treat them differently because he knew them intimately and had an ear for what works and does not with each.

Supertitles, I think, are the best way to go.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Excellent analysis, dr, and spot on.

Regarding supertitles, my ex-girlfriend had virtually no classical exposure. The first concert / classical event I took her to was Houston Symphony/Chorus Beethoven's 9th (may as well start off jumping into the deep end, eh?). She loved the music so next I ventured to Houston Grand Opera (which as you may know is one of the premiere 2nd tier companies worldwide). We first saw Magic Flute, then Rigoletto, Masked Ball, Aida, La Boehme, etc and she really enjoyed herself and, per the subject of our thread, picked up on the supertitles immediately. I even asked her about it after her first opera, and she said it took about 5 minutes and she was okay with glancing up for the translation.

Naturally, most of a libretto is repetitive, just like any song, pop or classical or whatever. You sing "I love her..." or "I'm gonna kill the Duke..." and then repeat a half dozen times. So there's usually enough time to glance at the titles during a song. The only time that's a problem is during a rapid "patter" aria or a quick back and forth exchance, such as we see often in Nozze.

But you're also correct that the original language is needed for the flow of the music, and translations just don't cut muster due to the difference in syntax.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I generally hate vocal music sung in translation. Of course understanding of the text for the full meaning of a song or opera is necessary, but if sung in translation, even in one of the most expertly done of translations, it is a far lower second best.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

My first Opera in English was Fidelio and it did not sit well with me. Since then I got Tosca and Mary Stuart, both work for me, and I just received Thieving Magpie today and like it very much.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Something I've not delved into yet but would like to in the future. Specifically for Verdi, some opera I listen purely for music, but Verdi blends music and drama so well and he's my favorite opera composer. I think this could be a more rewarding way to learn the operas better rather than libretto reading which i don't particularly enjoy.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I can't understand the English anyway so they do me little good.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Itullian said:


> I can't understand the English anyway so they do me little good.


Generally true, but I am understanding much of the English in the Magpie opera. It may be that this one was recorded more clearly, the voices closer to the microphones. Kind of lose it in the chorus parts though.

EDIT: I just ordered Elixir of Love in the Opera in English series.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Lulu and Wozzeck, both conducted by Paul Daniel in the Chandos "Opera in English" series, are excellent. I can also recommend Rattle's Cunning Little Vixen, and the magnificent English-language Jenufa conducted by Mackerras; the latter also gave us a fine recording of Hansel and [as opposed to "und"] Gretel. Then there's the Goodall "Ring", which is one of the greatest ever recorded in my view.

In general, I think that good English translations work well for most operas... APART from Italian ones, it seems. It may have something to do with the way that Italian composers/librettists fit the words to the music, "slurring together" entire sentences into a handful of syllables where required. Languages that are more "precise" in the pronunciation of separate syllables - e.g. German, French, Russian - are arguably easier to translate because there are more "spare" syllables to play with. Italian opera, where there are often far fewer syllables than words, must be a translator's nightmare!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I scoped out the English Cunning Little Vixen, but the music was too strange for me. Is it more Eastern music based?


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Florestan said:


> I scoped out the English Cunning Little Vixen, but the music was too strange for me. Is it more Eastern music based?


Interesting question. Janáček's music is very much inspired by (Czech) folk music and speech-rhythms, rather than Eastern (e.g. Japanese/Chinese) music. Having said that, folk music the world over makes use of the pentatonic scale, which is what characterises "Eastern" classical music also. Janáček's music might occasionally be reminiscent of Eastern music to some listeners, for this reason. (Mind you, it just sounds like Janáček to me )


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Interesting question. Janáček's music is very much inspired by (Czech) folk music and speech-rhythms, rather than Eastern (e.g. Japanese/Chinese) music. Having said that, folk music the world over makes use of the pentatonic scale, which is what characterises "Eastern" classical music also. Janáček's music might occasionally be reminiscent of Eastern music to some listeners, for this reason. (Mind you, it just sounds like Janáček to me )


Well it is a fascinating story and may be worth pursuing anyway. Probably better to do on DVD but many of those are extremely weird--wait, the whole opera is extremely weird  so the music probably fits it quite well.


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

I agree that Janacek operas are best seen initially. Wagner in English isn't too bad but it can be troublesome in French and Italian. A good translation is also key.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

I think performing operas in translation is a great idea. Ideally, operas should be sung by native speakers in the language the composer used when he wrote the opera - but that's not always going to happen.

1. Accents. Mangled, mispronounced French - e.g. Domingo's _Cid_, the Martina Franco _Polyeucte_ and _Reine de Saba_.

2. Producing the opera in the singers' and audience's language means there's more connection. Case in point: Bryn Terfel's _Boris Godunov _- his first performance in Russian. He doesn't speak Russian, so he's singing from _outside_ the language. Result: half the arias are flat.

3. Composers approved. Wagner, for instance, _wanted_ his operas produced in his audiences' native tongue. (And wrote essays explaining why.)

4. Historical precedent. Wagner's operas were produced in French in France (_L'Or du Rhin, La Valkyrie, Le Crépuscule des Dieux_) and Italian in Italy. Massenet's, Gounod's, Meyerbeer's and Auber's were produced in French in France, German in Germany, Italian in Italy, and Finnish in Finland. There were versions of Verdi and bel canto operas in several languages (and I'm not just thinking of Lucy/Lucie, Don Carlo/s, La Favorite/a).

I've been listening to tracks from the Chandos Opera in English series - and they're not half bad.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

My sister sang in Germany in the 70's and 80's and all was done in German. It was the rule in all European countries except England back then. Strange. I like Chandos' Tosca a lot.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

SimonTemplar said:


> I think performing operas in translation is a great idea. Ideally, operas should be sung by native speakers in the language the composer used when he wrote the opera - but that's not always going to happen.
> 
> 1. Accents. Mangled, mispronounced French - e.g. Domingo's _Cid_, the Martina Franco _Polyeucte_ and _Reine de Saba_.
> 
> ...


Some of us here have made these and similar points, but it's a surprisingly hard sell. Apart from the most familiar of operas, Wagner, Verdi, Mozart, Puccini, I'm not put off by a translation. Rather than retreading similar paths, I'll go and listen to something from Chandos now.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My sister sang in Germany in the 70's and 80's and all was done in German. It was the rule in all European countries except England back then. Strange. I like Chandos' Tosca a lot.


Yes I have the Tosca and it is pretty good. Also the Chandos English Thieving Magpie is pretty good. But skip Fidelio unless you like "Abscheulicher!" being translated as "Sadistic swine!":lol:

As I recall Elixir of Love is not bad either--I'll have to give it another listen and see.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Elixir of Love in English is pretty good. Will never replace the original language performance, but I like it.

Just ordered Barber of Seville in English, new copy for $6.50. It took creative searching because there is an older edition (1995) with a yellow cover, whereas the commonly listed one is (2000) with blue cover and going for about $17.

Now listening to Meistersinger in English.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> My sister sang in Germany in the 70's and 80's and all was done in German. It was the rule in all European countries except England back then. Strange. I like Chandos' Tosca a lot.


It's was their "culture" just because of that we do not have to like it. I do have a Don Carlo in German and I can get used to it, just as I find it strange to hear Mario saying," I am here ".


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Opera singers who sing in languages which they don't speak don't necessarily learn the pronunciation by rote and not know what they are singing about ; they most likely read a translation too .


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Elixir of Love in English is pretty good. Will never replace the original language performance, but I like it.
> 
> Just ordered Barber of Seville in English, new copy for $6.50. It took creative searching because there is an older edition (1995) with a yellow cover, whereas the commonly listed one is (2000) with blue cover and going for about $17.
> 
> Now listening to Meistersinger in English.


*cough*youtube*cough*


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> *cough*youtube*cough*


Subtle hint :angel:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Subtle hint :angel:


:devil:
Roi des enfers, c'est moi !
(Mais un diable très bon enfant!)


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Just got this sung-in-English Barber of Seville and gave it a listen. Well I must say that while I find a good deal of clarity so that I can understand much of the sung English, it just does not sound musically right with English. Also, they ruined the opera when they revised "The Useless Precaution," which is stated several times in the opera and is a play on words since that is the alternate (or originally intended) name of Rossini's Barber of Seville. Instead of "The Useless Precaution" it says "The Girl Who Loved a Stranger" in the first two places where she mentions it as the title of a new opera. Then they totally left it out in the third place (obviously because it would not work with the changed words) where the doctor talks about removing the ladder actually helping cause them to be married, and the barber replies, "I guess that is the useless precaution."

Blah! Not recommended (except for learning the story along with the music or for the sake of variety):


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## James Murphy (Jun 3, 2016)

The Barber of Seville is very impressive, with a spit-fire performance from Della Jones ( an excellent Handel and Rossini mezzo) and a very funny Don Bartholo from Andrew Shore.


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## James Murphy (Jun 3, 2016)

The Barber of Seville is very impressive, with a spit-fire performance from Della Jones ( an excellent Handel and Rossini mezzo) and a very funny Don Bartholo from Andrew Shore.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

James Murphy said:


> The Barber of Seville is very impressive, with a spit-fire performance from Della Jones ( an excellent Handel and Rossini mezzo) and a very funny Don Bartholo from Andrew Shore.


I must admit, once I got over the wording change I am really liking this English Barber of Seville a lot. And Della Jones is fantastic. A wonderful recording. And one wording change that is funny is where the Count disguised as the drunken solder butchers the Doctor's name, one being Dr. Bastardo, which I don't think is in the Italian.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

James Murphy said:


> The Barber of Seville is very impressive, with a spit-fire performance from Della Jones ( an excellent Handel and Rossini mezzo) and a very funny Don Bartholo from Andrew Shore.


We did understand the first post, welcome to Talk Classical.:tiphat:


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Florestan said:


> And Della Jones is fantastic.


Della's from my village, and we're proud of her. A fine performer, who has enjoyed a long and distinguished career... she's still going strong, I believe.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Della's from my village, and we're proud of her. A fine performer, who has enjoyed a long and distinguished career... she's still going strong, I believe.


One thing's for sure, she participated in a lot of recordings.:tiphat:


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Della's from my village, and we're proud of her. A fine performer, who has enjoyed a long and distinguished career... she's still going strong, I believe.


She was Rosina in the first opera I ever saw at ENO in 1988. She's got a lot to answer for ;-).


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> She was Rosina in the first opera I ever saw at ENO in 1988. She's got a lot to answer for ;-).


In a good way I presume.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have the Goodall English Wagner Ring and I'm sorry I bought it. The Solti runs rings around it. (pun intended). I rather listen to opera in its intended language.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> I have the Goodall English Wagner Ring and I'm sorry I bought it. The Solti runs rings around it. (pun intended). I rather listen to opera in its intended language.


I don't know why I keep buying these Opera in English sets, but I do. Suppose it is the novelty of it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> I don't know why I keep buying these Opera in English sets, but I do. Suppose it is the novelty of it.


Wagner sounds horrible in English.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> I don't know why I keep buying these Opera in English sets, but I do. Suppose it is the novelty of it.


AS long as you have no regrets, do as you like!:tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Wagner sounds horrible in English.


I have Flying Dutchman and Mastersingers.



Pugg said:


> AS long as you have no regrets, do as you like!:tiphat:


Am having fun with it anyway.

I just found out I can get Hansel and Gretel with Jennifer Larmore in German and also a set with Larmore in English.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> I have Flying Dutchman and Mastersingers.
> 
> Am having fun with it anyway.
> 
> I just found out I can get Hansel and Gretel with Jennifer Larmore in German and also a set with Larmore in English.


Oh dear, mind the wallet......


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Oh dear, mind the wallet......


I am spending money like the proverbial drunken sailor, but at least I am not drunk and the money is going to valuable purchases.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I have Goodall's Rhinegold loaded onto my phone, but I have to finish listening to Rienzi first today.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Sonata said:


> I have Goodall's Rhinegold loaded onto my phone, but I have to finish listening to Rienzi first today.


I just finished Rhinegold and I liked it a lot! Good start for Opera in english.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I have a dozen of these sung-in-English operas and by far the one that is the greatest for clarity of voice (I can make out most words) is this one. Highly recommended and get the DVD of the same and you will really get hooked on this opera.


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

Good timing. I just downloaded this week's free operadepot set: _Meistersinger _1968 - Goodall, in English.

Not Chandos, of course, but still. I am curious how it's going to sound.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Scopitone said:


> Good timing. I just downloaded this week's free operadepot set: _Meistersinger _1968 - Goodall, in English.
> 
> Not Chandos, of course, but still. I am curious how it's going to sound.


It is pretty good. I love the cast and I had the pleasure and privilege of hearing most of them in Glasgow a few years later. You won't be disappointed.


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## ericshreiber1005 (7 mo ago)

Have two of them: Mozart Marriage of Figaro which I like and Wagner:Flying Dutchman which is not really that good.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

When I heard operas translated to my native language, i.e. Slovak, I did not like it. Some the magnificent sentences sound banal  But also, good singers usually traveled outside of my small country and knew the version in the original, so the translation meant, we are getting the aging singers who do not travel anymore, or never did.


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## FrankE (Jan 13, 2021)

bigshot said:


> Goodall's Ring of the Nibelung is excellent. When you can understand the words in your native language, jokes are actually funny. There's something about translating a joke that kills it. Siegfried's first act in English is much more fun than in German.


I bought what I thought was one of the Ring operas in English. I should have read the description better as it was only part of one.
It's not that good a recording because I can't make out what they are singing.
It's a shame because reportedly a lot of time, effort and money was sank into the project with singers being coached for over a year. I wonder whether they ran out of money and cheaped out on microphone or mixing console.
I can understand more from the sang in Deustch recordings and my German skills are atrocious. 

I've a couple of other Chandos Sung in English operas but they don't get much play time, so i can't remember which ones without going through the boxes.


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## Yabetz (Sep 6, 2021)

I don't like the concept. It's like dubbing in film. Strangely enough though I like some translations from English into another language, like Karl Richter's German language version of Handel's _Messiah, _or (in literature) German translations of Shakespeare, especially the Schlegel-Tieck.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I actually like some of the "conversational" opera in the series, like Strauss' Intermezzo (with Elisabeth Söderström) and The Makropulos Case (with Cheryl Barker). Die Meistersinger with Goodall works quite well too. I don't think the Italian operas are successful for this series.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

I have a confession: I hate Opera translated away from the original language, so I have a huge hatred of Chandos "Opera in English", The ENO, and others of that nature. Partly because, no matter how hard they try, the English words never quite fit the music and partly because the meaning of the libretto is sometimes changed completely to create something that fits the music better. The most extreme case of this I ever encountered, bizarrely, was Lehar's "Dummer Dummer Reitersmann" that had been re-imagined as "Driving in the park with you" and relocated into a horse-drawn carriage as part of the production. I was maybe 12 or 13 when I saw that, and it put me off English translations for life!


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