# undeep lyrics



## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

This isn't really classical but, what the hey.

I have actually started to listen to the lyrics of The Beatles, Simon and Garfunkle et al. and have decided that what I found as deep and profound in my youth is in fact philosophical frippery and pseudo-deep claptrap. Not to mention self-indulgent narcissism. 
Exhibit A: All you need is Love. A series of self evident juvenile aphorisms
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.
It's easy.





Exhibit B: The Sounds of Silence. Mixed metaphors and "deep" meaning, signifying nothing. So, is the neon sign a good thing or a bad thing? But we do know that Silence is a BAD thing.

"In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence"






So, you got any more examples?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Superficial lyrics are one of the hallmarks of pop music  That's one of the aspects of the genre that doesn't wear well on the long term. How many "She loves you, ya, ya, ya" can you endure before you can't take any more? Although there are catchy, even inane and catchy lyrics that worm their ways into my head, I focus more on the music. That likely determined my predilection for instrumental music.

Playing a guitar in daddy's garage, landing a recording contract and striking it big just isn't the same as getting a degree in music


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Hmm...I was going to post the lyrics to "Turn My Swag On" by Soulja Boy Tell 'Em, but I think that one explains itself.

Here's a funny example. This indie song has a strange short set of lyrics:

Fleet Foxes - White Winter Hymnal

I was following the pack all swallowed in their coats
With scarves of red tied 'round their throats
To keep their little heads
From falling in the snow
And I turned 'round and there you go
And Michael, you would fall
And turn the white snow red as strawberries in the summertime...

People kept debating about what those lyrics meant, about how it may have been about war, loss of innocence, Communism, a hunting accident, the French Revolution, etc. Turns out the band revealed that the lyrics weren't meant to mean anything at all and that the song was more about the harmonies involved. Still, despite that, people still assign their own meaning to them.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

'...I've got a mouse and he hasn't got a house, I don't know why I call him Gerald. He's getting rather old but he's a good mouse...'

After 46 years Syd Barrett's lyrical profundity still bites deep. :devil:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

drpraetorius, fab analysis! :tiphat:

When I was young, I was so ready to go along with what seemed profound, preferably spoken by a handsome brooding young man with dark eyebrows, designer stubble, and wearing a black poloneck. 

There's also the pretentiousness of the older singer, for example, Frank Sinatra.
I think 'My Way' is a revolting song, but older men seem to love it. The rhymes sound clever, but it exalts getting your own way & seeing people who oppose you as your enemy. A mean & small-minded ideal.

*And now, the end is here 
And so I face the final curtain 
My friend, I'll say it clear 
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain 
I've lived a life that's full 
I traveled each and ev'ry highway 
And more, much more than this, I did it my way*_..._

It's partly the tune - it encourages arrogant self-dramatisation, but in real life, would we give such a pretentious twit the time of day?


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## Schubussy (Nov 2, 2012)

Tristan said:


> Hmm...I was going to post the lyrics to "Turn My Swag On" by Soulja Boy Tell 'Em, but I think that one explains itself.
> 
> Here's a funny example. This indie song has a strange short set of lyrics:
> 
> ...


Still a great song though!


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Those are all so much better than what I regularly have to endure. An example:

*Baby, you my everything
You all I ever wanted
We could do it real big
Bigger than you ever done it
You'll be up on everything
Other hoes ain't ever on it
I want this forever
I swear I can spend whatever on it
'Cause she hold me down
Every time I hit her up
When I get right
I promise that we gon' live it up
She made me beg for it
'Til she give it up
And I say the same thing every single time...*

Or, on the femal side...

*[All:]
Let's go crazy, crazy, crazy 'till we see the sun
I know we only met but let's pretend it's love
And never, never, never stop for anyone
Tonight let's get some and live while we're young
Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh (and live while we're young)
Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh
Tonight let's get some

*

These are comically bad. There's nothing salvageable about them. Why anyone would ever defend it is incomprehensible to me. And yet, unlike the 'Turn Your Swag On', which is regularly looked down upon, I know people with top grades that enjoy this sort of music and quote the lyrics on Twitter and the likes. Won't you just adapt poetry again, musicians? Please?

That said, I've never heard anyone over 25 expound the virtues of pop music, so perhaps we can forgive the teenagers for indulging in the superficial during the days they're convinced they will never die or get old. I'll just snicker at it from a distance.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

My experience is usually the opposite. The older I get, the more I appreciate rock lyrics (and I don't mean newer rock lyrics are better than older ones). Of course there's a lot of crap out there, but there's a lot of great stuff.

The difference in I used to think that Important Subjects begat meaningful lyrics. Bands who sang about politics and war were important. Now I'm less impressed by, say, U2, but others impress me more. 

I'd honestly take the best pop/rock lyrics over most lieder/opera lyrics any day.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

I quite agree with the OP. There are so many from the sixties. Dylan's Mighty Quinn for example



> Ev'rybody's building the big ships and the boats
> Some are building monuments
> Others, jotting down notes
> Ev'rybody's in despair
> ...


What do you expect from a man who copied Woody Guthrie with gems like



> Did you ever see a hangman tie a slipknot?
> Did you ever see a hangman tie a slipknot?
> I've seen it many a time and he winds, he winds,
> After thirteen times he's got a slipknot.


There are variants of this.

Or Grace Slick \ Jefferson Airplane White Rabbit



> One pill makes you larger
> And one pill makes you small
> And the ones that mother gives you
> Don't do anything at all
> ...


Trouble is, there are *too many!*


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> I'd honestly take the best pop/rock lyrics over most lieder/opera lyrics any day.


I'd probably agree with that. I would certainly say that there is more variety in rock/pop lyrics, and these lyrics are often easier to relate to (i.e. they deal with themes more familiar to a modern audience). Don't get me wrong, Lieder and Opera are two of my favourite genres but that's largely based on the quality of the music. In other words, I don't listen to Die schöne Müllerin for the plot.

My favourite "pop" lyricist = Jackson Browne.


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

My favorite Beetles song is either "Come Together" with it's profoundly unintelligible non sequitur lyrics, "Maxwells Silver Hammer with it's jaunty/black lyrics or "Eleanor Rigby" with lyrics that, this time, really do mean something. 

Speaking of the mean and small minded, I am reminded of "Homeward Bound" All about a guy who has become a pop music star and how he now hates his life and only gives his audiences half hearted performances. It's always so sad when you get what you want. 


I'm sittin' in the railway station
Got a ticket for my destination
On a tour of one-night stands my suitcase and guitar in hand
And every stop is neatly planned for a poet and one-man band

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound

Home, where my thought's escaping
Home, where my music's playing
Home, where my love lies waiting silently for me


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

The joys of Widnes station. Reminds one of the Dylan lyrics

She knows there's no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all

Wednesday Morning 3 am had bombed and Paul Simon was in the UK doing folk club gigs. Then the record company tarted up Sound of Silence and the rest is .....


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

I guess we're really trying to find songs that claim a degree of deep...

So, not The Archies then,



> Sugar, ah, honey, honey
> You are my candy girl
> And you got me wanting you
> Honey, ah, sugar, sugar
> ...


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Or Camp Granada






(To the tune of Amilcare Ponchielli's "Dance of the Hours", sorry getting a *bit *classical.)


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

How about this song? Posing as 'moral-uplift', it is basically pretty selfish. It's the theme tune to a French children's serial shown on BBC TV in the early 70s. Great serial, though - we bought it as a dvd last year, and watched the whole six episodes more or less straight through! 






You've got to fight for what you want,
For all that you believe;
It's right to fight for what we want,
To live the way we please....

And we should never count the cost
Or worry that we'll fall:
It's better to have fought and lost
Than not have fought at all!...


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Lyrics are not meant to be poems, but they definitely can increase the atmosphere of a song. I still love most of the Simon and Garfunkel lyrics, including _Sound of silence_. Don McLean's _Vincent _is really beautiful.

On a side note, I think posting complete lyrics is most likely against copyright rules - I know a big USA bulletin board (Straight Dope) explicitly prohibits it for that reason.

Added: link to Straight Dope rule.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> On a side note, I think posting complete lyrics is most likely against copyright rules - I know a big USA bulletin board (Straight Dope) explicitly prohibits it for that reason.


10 second google sorts it out. However, I've changed my last editable post because of TC's T & C's which mention copyright material. The other point is that if you post lyrics you get linked on google which generates more traffic.

Thanks for the heads up!


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

So, that means you all can just look up the lyrics for Yes' "Siberian Khatru" for yourselves


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Related: this controversial video in which Theodor Adorno condemns the fusion of political protest with popular music.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Entertaining concept.

Certainly Vietnam protest stuff is a bit tedious as is some Dylan talking about "genuine" music.

Question is what about the agit prop mob around Ewan MacColl like Behan and Luke Kelly and to some extent the Ian Campbell folk group not to mention the Glasgow Song Guild?

MacColl wrote some entertaining stuff like the thirty foot trailer and the moving on song about travellers. Luke Kelly's the Sun is Burning is interesting even if was on Wednesday Morning 3am.

Seems to deny the possibility of socialist action (whoops - watch the politics) but again what about Hamish Henderson's John Maclean's March or McGinn's Ballad of John Maclean?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

These lyrics are paper thin:

red and blue
made of wood
i need you
it's understood
without your blackened core
i could not forever more
write down things on paper
unless i had a pen
so thank you, pencils
you fine writing utensils


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## Yardrax (Apr 29, 2013)

It is not at all evident to me what it means for something to be 'deep'.

At a glance the thread seems to equate 'not being deep' with being philosophically trivial, frivolous or otherwise disagreeable. Though in many cases a question of interpretation seems to arise - I don't see what is repugnant or selfish about the 'My Way' lyrics for example, the level of ego demonstrated is perfectly healthy.

But art is not philosophy, and aesthetic affect is not necessarily correlated with philosophical truth or insight. I don't agree with Schopenhauer but that won't stop me from listening to Wagner Opera's, and I am a big Wittgenstein fan but Steve Reich is hit and miss with me.

Also there are types of philosophical content which are shallow, like the 'You can't prove reality is real' crowd which seems to be the perennial province of people who read about Descartes one time on Wikipedia.

So here is your challenge, should you choose to accept - establish a set of criteria for determining whether or not a certain poem or lyric is 'deep', and then establish an effective argument for why depth as you have defined it should have an effect on our aesthetic evaluation of the poem or lyric.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I'm a strange singer when it comes to lyrics. I don't really think about them nor care very much about what they say; I treat them more like other notes in the music. However, I've been told several times by some folks that they never understood the song until they heard me sing it (lol)! And when I think of it, I make it sound like the most important thing in the world while I'm singing a song yet I rarely know exactly what the author meant, let alone care.


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## schuberkovich (Apr 7, 2013)

Lyrics when they tell a story I think can be pretty powerful:


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

*Black Spell Of Destruction*

Hear my Sword
...in the Making
Of my Spell
Literally
Damkuna, Iftraga
Sheb Nigurepur, Dafast
The World's Tragedy, Is Served at My Feast

*Nymphomaniac Fantasia*

The scent of a woman was not mine...

Welcome home, darling
Did you miss me?
Wish to dwell in dear love?

Touch my milklike skin
Feel the ocean
Lick my deepest
Hear the starry choir

Rip off this lace
that keeps me imprisoned
But beware the enchantment
for my eroticism is your oblivion

Old love lies deep, you said
Deeper shall be the wound between your legs

*Lost Forgotten Sad Spirit*

The Fire in the Sky is Extinguished
Blue Waters no Longer Cry
The Dancing of Trees Has Stopped
The Stream of Freshness from Cold Winds
Exists no Longer
The Rain Has Stopped to Drip
From the Sky
Still Dripping Exists
From the Veins of a Nearly Dead Boy
Once There Was Hatred
Once There Was Cold
Now
There is Only
A Dark Stone Tomb
With an Altar
An Altar which
Serves As a Bed
A Bed of Eternal Sleep
The Dreams of the Human in Sleep
Are Dreams of Relief
A Gate out of Hell
Into the Void of Death
Yet Undisturbed
The Human Sleep
And One Day
Will the Grave Be Unlocked
And the Soul
Must Return to His World
But This Time as
A Lost Forgotten Sad Spirit
Doomed
To Haunt
Endlessly

*End Of All Hope*

It is the end of all hope
To lose the child, the faith
To end all the innocence
To be someone like me
This is the birth of all hope
To have what I once had
This life unforgiven
It will end with a birth

No will to wake for this morn
To see another black rose born
Deathbed is slowly covered with snow

Angels, they fell first but I'm still here
Alone as they are drawing near
In heaven my masterpiece will finally be sung

Wounded is the deer that leaps highest
And my wound it cuts so deep
Turn off the light and let me pull the plug

Mandylion without a face
Deathwish without a prayer
End of hope
End of love
End of time
The rest is silence


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

Ingenue said:


> [...] When I was young, I was so ready to go along with what seemed profound, preferably spoken by a handsome brooding young man with dark eyebrows, *designer stubble, and wearing a black poloneck*.


Talking about me again? (Well, not the young-ish bit...). Nah, Ingénue, you've just described the stereotypical image of those attending contemporary music festivals and summer composition courses in fancy European cities. And that's just the women you've described!


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Or Camp Granada
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny, very funny indeed!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Here's a song which made no pretentions, but I love what Peter Sellers did with it.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

Well Manxfeeder, put on a posh Shakespeare accent and anything sounds deep!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I remember when Sgt. Pepper came out, one magazine, I think Newsweek, called She's Leaving Home brilliant, and at the same time, another, maybe Time, cited the same lyrics as one of the worst songs of the year. I guess brilliance/vapidity depends on which pretentious magazine you work for.

Still, "Fun is the one thing money can't buy"? Seriously?

She...(we gave her most of our lives)
Is leaving (sacrified most of our lives)
Home (we gave her everything money could buy)
She's leaving home, after living alone, for so many years (bye bye)

[and so on, until the end . . .]

Friday morning, at nine o'clock
She is far away
Waiting to keep the appointment she made
Meeting a man from the Motortrade

She (what did we do that was wrong)
Is Having (we didn't know it was wrong)
Fun (fun is the one thing that money can't buy)


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Thread reminds me of of of those quotatable Voltaire _bon mots_: "That which is too silly to be said is instead sung."


Art Rock said:


> On a side note, I think posting complete lyrics is most likely against copyright rules - I know a big USA bulletin board (Straight Dope) explicitly prohibits it for that reason.
> 
> Added: link to Straight Dope rule.


With that in mind, 1 stanza (or maybe two, tops) is surely sufficient to get the point across.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

And there's nothing wrong with 'undeep lyrics' that set out to be 'undeep' :





*La Bamba*

Para bailar la bamba
Para bailar la bamba
Se necesita una poca de gracia
Una poca de gracia pa mi pa ti
Y arriba y arriba
Ay arriba y arriba
Por ti sere, por ti sere, por ti sere

Yo no soy marinero
Yo no soy marinero, soy capitan
Soy capitan, soy capitan

Etc ...


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

I woke up this mornin' with the sundown shinin' in 
I found my mind in a brown paper bag within 

...........................

I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in


Sung by that amazingly tuned in dude, Kenny Rogers


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2013)

Vesteralen said:


> I woke up this mornin' with the sundown shinin' in
> I found my mind in a brown paper bag within [...]


Good lord Vesteralen, your lyrics above (I woke up this morning...) led inextricably to this (something my grandaddy used to listen to):





Get up in the morning, slaving for bread, sir
So that every mouth can be fed
Poor me Israelites Aah

My wife and my kids, they packed up and leave me
Darling, she said, I was yours to be seen
Poor me Israelite

Shirt them a-tear up, trousers is gone
I don't want to end up like Bonnie and Clyde
Poor me Israelite

After a storm there must be a calm
They catch me in the farm
You sound your alarm
Poor a-poor a-poor me Israelite


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

Taggart, you've mentioned one of my heroes

My old man is dead and gone
Now I'm your old man
And my advice to you, young man
Is to fight back while you can
Watch out for the man with the silicon chip
Hold onto your job with a good firm grip
'cause if you don't , you'll have had your chips
The same as my old man


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

cwarchc said:


> Taggart, you've mentioned one of my heroes


Glad you enjoyed it.

Some useful sites:

Matt McGinn

Dick Gaughan

There's a rich vein of Scottish Socialism in there and some things I find a bit pseud e.g. Gaughan's "No Gods (and Precious Few Heroes)" or his page on the "Freedom Come All Ye".

Shame that there are no sites for the two Hamish's - Imlach and Henderson although Gaughan has comments on both.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/ae/music/bad-songs-say-so-much-704917/

Strange coincidence....................


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

With a few exceptions, such as Leonard Cohen and the South African singer/songwriter Koos du Plessis, I never listen to the lyrics anyway. As far as I am concerned they are just there to carry the music and if the music doesn't work, the lyrics sure ain't going to save the song. 

Inane lyrics are nothing new - think of Renaissance madrigals or much of opera or Carmina Burana. I'm not sure song lyrics should be particularly profound - given that lots of people do not listen to them, it would be a waste of good poetry. 

Anyway, the Beatles were veritable poet laureates compared to most of what you hear - "Wanna make love to you, baby, tonight, yeah, yeah, yeah." (Weirdly, the board doesn't have little music note emoticons that one could use to spice up the last sentence...


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I do agree with you, brianvds, that music is paramount in a song and can carry foolish words if need be.

But the most perfect songs marry evocative tunes with attractive lyrics. For me, such perfect marrying exists in the songs of Robert Burns, where he wrote his own poetry or adapted folk-lyrics and set them to traditional tunes. The way he composed his poetry gives it away - he would walk up and down his own kailyard humming the tune to himself and working internally on the lyrics. A true artist, and a true folk artist! :tiphat:

A great example of a Burns song with matching tune & lyrics would be 'Ye Banks & Braes'.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Different concept, same idea. Rudyard Kipling, when he arrived in London,: "Meantime, I had found me quarters in Villiers Street, Strand, which forty-six years ago was primitive and passionate in its habits and population. My rooms were small, not over-clean or well-kept, but from my desk I could look out of my window through the fanlight of Gatti’s Music-Hall entrance, across the street, almost on to its stage." There is no doubt that Kipling used the rhythm of popular song to infuse both his poetry and his fiction - for example the Village that Voted the Earth is Flat.


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