# SS 30.08.14 - Glière #3 "Il'ya Muromets"



## realdealblues

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

Welcome to another weekend of symphonic listening!

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Reinhold Gliere (1875 - 1956)*

Symphony No. 3 in B minor, Op. 32 "Il'ya Muromets"

1. Wandering Pilgrims. Il'ya Muromets And Svyatogor
2. Solovey the Brigand
3. With Vladimir Fair Sun
4. Prowess and Petrfaction of Il'ya Muromets

---------------------

Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


----------



## realdealblues

Another work that I've never heard by another composer I'm not familiar with. Looking forward to experiencing something new again this week. I only have one recording of this work so I will be listening to:

View attachment 49931


Donald Johanos/Czecho-Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra


----------



## ptr

Ahh, Gliere, has been ages since I listened to his music! Some Romantic Fun!

Got three versions of "Il'ya Muromets";

Harold Farberman / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on Unicorn Kanchana
Eugene Ormandy / Philadelphia Orchestra on RCA
Edward Downes / BBC Philharmonic Orchestra on Chandos

I think that I'll go for the first one:








/ptr


----------



## csacks

Any recommendation? This is all new to me. Both Gliere and the symphony


----------



## ptr

ptr said:


> Harold Farberman / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on Unicorn Kanchana
> Eugene Ormandy / Philadelphia Orchestra on RCA
> Edward Downes / BBC Philharmonic Orchestra on Chandos


Apologies! I was lying, I actually have four... :tiphat: Fun thing seems to appear when You do some shelf rummaging, add to the list above:

Leopold Stokowski /Huston Symphony Orchestra on Capitol (Stokowski's second recording of this Symphony)

Maybe I'll change my mind and and go for this instead!









/ptr


----------



## ptr

csacks said:


> Any recommendation?


I think that Downes Chandos version is a very good introduction to this symphony, Johanos on Naxos/Marco Polo (as rdb mentions above) is quite serviceable, I have not heard the newer Naxos disc with JoAnn Falletta. Listened to Leon Botstein/Telarc online and it seemed rather run of the mill (boring but with a stunning sound quality).

/ptr


----------



## maestro267

Johanos recording on Naxos. One of my favourite symphonies, this. It's epic!

Some recordings have about 20-30 minutes of cuts, so be aware of that when selecting your recording. Full-length symphony is well over 70 minutes, and in one case, 90.


----------



## Mahlerian

ptr said:


> I think that Downes Chandos version is a very good introduction to this symphony, Johanos on Naxos/Marco Polo (as rdb mentions above) is quite serviceable, I have not heard the newer Naxos disc with JoAnn Falletta. Listened to Leon Botstein/Telarc online and it seemed rather run of the mill (boring but with a stunning sound quality).
> 
> /ptr


I don't own this one, so I'll take your recommendation and listen to the Downes/BBC Philharmonic disc on Spotify.


----------



## brotagonist

Super  I just discovered this symphony a few weeks ago and I was intending to listen to it again, as I quite enjoyed it.






Järvi/WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln

I like the picture. It goes nicely with the symphony's program of Ilya Muromets' epic quest.

The Downes recording is on YT, so I will likely also listen to it.


----------



## JACE

ptr said:


> I think that Downes Chandos version is a very good introduction to this symphony, Johanos on Naxos/Marco Polo (as rdb mentions above) is quite serviceable, I have not heard the newer Naxos disc with JoAnn Falletta. Listened to Leon Botstein/Telarc online and it seemed rather run of the mill (boring but with a stunning sound quality).


That JoAnn Falletta disc looks very interesting. I haven't heard it.

My go-to recording for this work is Hermann Scherchen's version with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra.










This 2-LP set is a 70's "Westminster Gold" reissue on ABC Records. Westminster originally released it in the early-50's, so it's mono.

AFAIK, Scherchen's recording has never been issued on CD. But you can listen to it via YouTube: 




I like Stokowski's version with the Houston SO too. But Stoki makes some big cuts in the score. (Stokowski's recording fits on a single LP, whereas Scherchen's requires 3 sides.)


----------



## JACE

ptr said:


> Maybe I'll change my mind and and go for this instead!
> 
> View attachment 49940


I really like that LP cover illustration.


----------



## Tristan

What a coincidence. I just picked up the Naxos recording of this symphony at a used CD store a couple days ago


----------



## JACE

Tristan said:


> What a coincidence. I just picked up the Naxos recording of this symphony at a used CD store a couple days ago


Naxos - Johanos or Naxos - Falletta?


----------



## Rhythm

Hey! Thanks for the YT lead to *Symphony No. 3* in B minor, Op.32 by Reinhold Gliere, performed by Sir Edward Downes and BBC Philharmonic.

*Here's a* *pdf score* of 414 pages (and 33.26mb), which I've yet to peruse.

I Wandering Pilgrims; Muromets and Svygator 
II Ilya And Nightingale, The Robber; pdf p 119
III The Court of Vladimir, The Mighty Sun; pdf p 240
IV The Heroic Deeds and Petrification of Ilya; pdf p 289​
*Musical Musings*, too .


----------



## Vaneyes

Of the Gliere 3s I've owned, heard, sampled (I currently have none in my collection), I'm bullish on the recently released Buffalo/Falletta. I'll get around to ordering it one of these days. BTW also available in Blu-ray Audio.:tiphat:


----------



## Tristan

JACE said:


> Naxos - Johanos or Naxos - Falletta?


It's the Johanos one. I didn't even know there was another, that's good to know.


----------



## Marschallin Blair

Henze: "_Hunt of the Maenads_"









Entire thing.









"A Hero's Deeds in Battle"-- The opening horn flourishes under Kempe's Staatskapelle Dresden are. . . _AWE_-_SOME_. The strings sing gloriously too. I _imagine _the climaxes were powerfully done; but then, the less-than-stellar EMI engineering job prevents me from knowing for sure.


----------



## Blancrocher

I picked up a copy of Downes' version at a local used outlet, the only copy they had. This will be my first listen to the symphony.

*p.s.* I also snagged Downes and co. in Symphony #2 and "The Zaporozhy Cossacks"--so lots of Gliere for me this Saturday!


----------



## Mika

Downes and BBC is my choice also. It is the only version available in local library.


----------



## Haydn man

Blancrocher said:


> View attachment 49965
> 
> 
> I picked up a copy of Downes' version at a local used outlet, the only copy they had. This will be my first listen to the symphony.


Ditto for me too but mine is via Spotify


----------



## Jeff W

Another one that is completely new to me! Yay! I love hearing new to me music!



brotagonist said:


> Järvi/WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln


I'll be listening to this one later. Thank you for the link!


----------



## maestro267

I love this symphony! It's a massive 75-minute programme symphony in my favourite key, B minor. It's in the heroic style of Tchaikovsky's Manfred. A few ideas recur, some acting as motto themes which pop up in all four movements. It's gloriously orchestrated and calls for some unusual effects.


----------



## Haydn man

Having listened to this for the first time, I can safely say it is quite different. The music fits the 'epic' story well but does feel rather drawn out to me. Reminds me of several tone poems linked by a common theme.


----------



## ptr

Haydn man said:


> Reminds me of several tone poems linked by a common theme.


Quite a fitting description! Each movement having a very descriptive subtitle.


> 1. Wandering Pilgrims. Il'ya Muromets And Svyatogor
> 2. Solovey the Brigand
> 3. With Vladimir Fair Sun
> 4. Prowess and Petrfaction of Il'ya Muromets


I quite think that Your point is one of the reasons several conductors makes cuts to get a tighter structure (one side of me thinks that this is excellent, the other perfectionist zealot part of me only want the original text.. Fortunately we can have both!)

It makes for some interesting side reading, reading up on the Muromets legend!

/ptr


----------



## TurnaboutVox

Via Spotify:

*Reinhold Gliere - Symphony No 3 'Ilya Muromets'*
Downes, BBC Philharmonic Orchestra 
[Chandos, 1992]

Completely new to me as well.


----------



## MrCello

Listening to it with Donald Johanos and the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra.

I'm new to the composer, and I'm hooked already! I'm on the third movement now. Beautiful. The second movement was a little meh for me though.


----------



## Bix

Vaneyes said:


> Of the Gliere 3s I've owned, heard, sampled (I currently have none in my collection), I'm bullish on the recently released Buffalo/Falletta. I'll get around to ordering it one of these days. BTW also available in Blu-ray Audio.:tiphat:


This version is wonderful.


----------



## nightscape

Cool, love this symphony. Going with Downes/BBC.

CD, though, not Spotify like most of you hipsters.


----------



## MagneticGhost

ptr said:


> Apologies! I was lying, I actually have four... :tiphat: Fun thing seems to appear when You do some shelf rummaging, add to the list above:
> 
> Leopold Stokowski /Huston Symphony Orchestra on Capitol (Stokowski's second recording of this Symphony)
> 
> Maybe I'll change my mind and and go for this instead!
> 
> View attachment 49940
> 
> 
> /ptr


I'd love to see a photo of your collection - just so I can show it to my wife when she next complains that I have too many CDs


----------



## elgar's ghost

I have the Farberman recording on the UK label. It weighs in at over 90 minutes. Was the conductor 'doing a Celi' or do most versions have some cuts? Did Gliere make the cuts himself?


----------



## ptr

MagneticGhost said:


> I'd love to see a photo of your collection - just so I can show it to my wife when she next complains that I have too many CDs


Sorry my friend, we have a no-photo's policy in my house!  Anyway, the majority of my records is stored in an adjoining room to the library/lounge/study/listening-/sitting-room where I do my listening, this room stood unused for years until I decided to unclutter my life about ten years ago (storage room is about 30m2, one of the joys of living in a large building, it used to be a "Methodist Church" before my granddad bought it in the late seventies when the congregation had gone extinct by old age). 
Also, a significant part of decluttering was deciding to go from playing CD's to ripping all of them to a NAS (Network Hard drives), I have ripped about 2/3 of my CD's and try to process a couple of discs every day when I'm at home, not having stacks of CD's piled everywhere is very spouse-positive!

Sorry for the OT! Stokowski rules Ilya Muromets!

/ptr


----------



## Joachim Raff

One of my favourite full scale symphonies of all time;

My favourite version :









For pure excitement and verve no other does it for me.


----------



## mbhaub

I love this symphony - all glorious 80 minutes. Just wish that there was a modern recording with a great orchestra (Chicago!) in stellar SACD (or Blu Ray) sound, with a dynamite conductor who loves it and really makes it go! And no cuts, no rescoring - play it as written. I've collected every known recording over the years, but even the best of them still don't have that certain drive that the old mono Scherchen has. Downes came close. Yoav Talmi and Ormandy (RCA) made great attempts, both marred by brutal cuts. Rachlin is pretty good, too - but his re-scoring in a few places is a blemish. Maybe Gergiev will take it up someday. Or Currentzis.


----------



## Vasks

mbhaub said:


> And no cuts, no rescoring - play it as written.


My first recording was by Stokowski on a Seraphim LP. Lots of cuts...of course I never knew that until I bought the Johanos/Naxos uncut CD


----------



## mbhaub

Vasks said:


> My first recording was by Stokowski on a Seraphim LP. Lots of cuts...of course I never knew that until I bought the Johanos/Naxos uncut CD


That early Naxos/Marco Polo was sure welcomed when it came! And it fit on one disk, unlike the Farberman.

I remember that old Stokie/Houston recording. The cd I find fascinating is the 1940 recording with the Philadelphia Orchestra where he managed to cut an 80 minute score down to 45 or so. Still, that would have been a lot of records in that set in those days! It's one of those lost opportunities - he could have set down the complete score later in life, but seems to have lost interest or something. Ormandy also. His two cut versions hold so much promise.


----------



## MusicSybarite

Mine is this










Pure grandeur from start to finish in great sound quality. It's the longest performance in existence of this piece (93 minutes long) and nothing wrong with that, it works perfectly well. I can't get enough of this ultra epic composition. One notices it was written with care, with all the possible detail in every aspect. To hear this work in its cut version is an offense IMO. It has no bad parts at all.


----------



## mbhaub

Farberman is slow. And the reason is: this was an early digital recording (still sounds great!) where editing was really difficult and he wanted to record it in long takes for continuity. Because of this, minor slips were ignored and let in, but there's a whopper of a crash in brass in the first movement about half way through that is so bad that every time I play this version I tense up and cringe as the passage gets closer and closer. Farberman was an SOB which might explain why he never became a big name conductor. A stickler for precision, somehow it eluded him on this recording. His Mahler, Rachmaninoff and other stuff is terrific.


----------

