# The past is a foreign country...



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

...They do things differently there.

This is a thread for posting *your insights into history*, or for posting amazing things you've discovered about the way people thought or acted.

Hopefully it is *not* a thread for patronising the people of the past, or for having a laugh at 'quaint world-views' which is really a rant about present day religion, politics or sociology.

Au contraire, I'm hoping to see the three Es - *e*mpathy, *e*piphanies, and *e*nlightenment!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What prompted me to start the thread is this extract from a book I'm reading, 'Victorian Miniature' by Owen Chadwick.

It's a true account of an incident that took place in Victorian Norfolk, England:

*On 27th April, 1847, Lady Catherine Boileau was out walking in the village with her daughter Agnes & met Mrs Durrant. She asked after her rheumatism, and then Mrs Durrant exclaimed in a voice of lamenttion, 'What a sad thing this is, is it not, my Lady? Is it not dreadful?'

'What thing?'

'Why sure, have you not heard, my Lady? I mean about the children being killed?'

'No,' said Lady Catherine. 'What children? And how?' She supposed that some accident must have happened.

'O dear, I wonder you have not heard, that the Queen has ordered all the children in the kingdom under five years of age to be killed.'

Lady Catherine wanted to laugh; but Mrs Durrant looked so unhappy and so serious that she could not. She tried to explain that the Queen had no power to order such a thing even if she wished it, but that she was a good and kind woman and never would wish it. She wento all the cottages & found everyone else, except the sceptical Mrs Thrower, believing the report. Some said they hardly knew how to believe it, especially as it was said that the Queen was to begin with her own children - but then, as they were dumb & had not their right know (i.e. were idiots) she did not perhaps mind so much.

Upon inquiry the Boileaus found that this idea of Queen Victoria as a modern Herod was widely believed in Hethersett and other neighbouring villages. It appeared to have arisen because the Poor Law authorities had issued a decree that all the children in the poor house should be vaccinated.

*

My epiphany came earlier today, when I realised that Britain only got universal manhood suffrage much later in the nineteenth century, and full female suffrage in about 1930. Schooling was pretty hit and miss in 1847 too.

These country people weren't stupid, but they had no say whatever in the law, the government, their own parish. It was all arbitrary - mysterious - from above. Had anybody bothered to explain what 'vaccination' meant and what it entailed?

Like Lady Catherine, my first reaction was to laugh - my second to reflect on the unhappiness this state of affairs had caused.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

This was shot in 1906 before the earthquake.

We came across this on FB. Surprising to see the way they play chicken with the cable car. Somebody on YT comment how nice it is to be able to see people's faces because they're looking up, bnot at their phones.

It amazes me how long the women's dresses were - actually trailing on the ground. However, while wearing those long dresses, the women really stride out, with great freedom. Is that because it's America, or did our Edwardian forebears stride out too?


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Probably not exactly what your loking for, but this simply isn't done nowadays:

_"Among other things she told me for certain how my old Lady Middlesex beshit herself the other day in the presence of the King, and people took notice of it." _(22 June, 1860)

Poor Lady Middlesex. Bad enough it happened, bad enough people took note of it, but one of those people went and told Samuel Pepys, who in turn recorded it in what would become the most famous diary in the English language.

More generally, I'd add that in the chamber pot era, people couldn't afford to be entirely prissy about bodily functions. Pepys has a far amount of stuff like this, all of which was censored upon publication.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

^ ^ ^
Insight into the past - surprising things from the past - very much what I was looking for! :tiphat:

I remember some years ago John & I & my mother were playing scrabble and the word 'bundling' came up, which I didn't know about, but the other two did.

It still surprises me!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_(tradition)


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> ..._n the chamber pot era, people couldn't afford to be entirely prissy about bodily functions. Pepys has a far amount of stuff like this, all of which was censored upon publication._


_

You-all of you 'foreigners' -might be interested in this:










Dominique Laporte - History of **** (es-aitch-eye-tee)

From Wikipedia:

"It uses an idiosyncratic method of historical genealogy derived from, among others, Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmund Freud, Georges Bataille, and Michel Foucault, to show how the development of sanitation techniques in Western Europe affected the formation of modern notions of individuality. Laporte examines this influence through the historical processes of urbanization, the apotheosis of nationalism, practices of capitalist exchange, and linguistic reform."

How this gets from **** to the real **** that affects our lives could be interesting :lol:_


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

1947 New York. For me, two things jump out as being from a very different era (no doubt there are many more).

Answer:
The baby left alone in the street (even if only for a minute) and the block of ice delivered to the shop. We really take ice for granted.


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## Lucifer Saudade (May 19, 2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversies

It still goes on.... conspiracies abound.

"In the grand scope of the history of medicine, the relationship between doctors and patients has changed quite a bit in recent years. The internet and direct-to-consumer advertising have empowered patients to become active participants in their health care. However, it was not always this way.

For a long time, physicians were the authority on health. Patients trusted in their doctors' education and expertise and, for the most part, followed their advice. When health concerns about cigarettes began to receive public attention in the 1930s, tobacco companies took preemptive action. They capitalized on the public's trust of physicians in order to quell concerns about the dangers of smoking. Thus was born the use of physicians in cigarette advertisements

"When you knit this together into a full story, the scope of it and the way it duped the public was just incredible," said Robert K. Jackler, MD, Sewall Professor and Chair, otolaryngology - head and neck surgery at Stanford University Medical Center. "The public was becoming increasingly worried about the health consequences of cigarettes. They started to refer to cigarettes as coffin nails and started talking about smoker's cough and smoker's hack. The companies saw a threat to their success and business model."

http://www.healio.com/hematology-on...igarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved

Old story but I was thinking about it today for unrelated reasons. Reminded me of a good Edward Bernays documentary, pity I can't remember which one










The rise of consumer culture and marketing - kinda funny how it wasn't always "a thing". But then again, a lot of things weren't.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

A few years ago when researching my wife's genealogy, we came across this story:

In the spring of 1753 the captain of a Dutch vessel advertised that his vessel would make an excursion on Whit-sunday. Among those enticed to take the trip were Peter Rhoda, Peter Swart, Abraham Decker, Jacob Haner, and William Dinehart. The latter was from near Heidelberg, in Baden, Germany. The excursion was taken according to promise, and a grand feast was spread for the delectation of the excursionists, after partaking of which, dancing and music whiled away the time. Liquors were furnished in great abundance, and the merry company soon became oblivious to all external surroundings. When they began to get sober they awoke to the realization of the fact that they were bound to take a longer "excursion" than they had bargained for. The captain told them they were bound for New York, and at that port they were landed in the fall, after a long passage. Not being able to pay their passage, the captain, according to the laws and customs of the time, apprenticed them to the highest bidder for a length of time sufficient to pay his claim. The men were all apprenticed to Livingston and brought to the furnace at Ancram, where they served the term of their apprenticeship, four and one-half years, to pay seven pounds passage-money. At the expiration of their term of service Livingston offered them the choice of any unoccupied farm on the manor which they might select, and which he promised to lease to them upon favorable terms. They all accepted his offer.

- History of Columbia County, New York


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> A few years ago when researching my wife's genealogy, we came across this story:
> 
> In the spring of 1753 the captain of a Dutch vessel advertised that his vessel would make an excursion on Whit-sunday. Among those enticed to take the trip were Peter Rhoda, Peter Swart, Abraham Decker, Jacob Haner, and William Dinehart. The latter was from near Heidelberg, in Baden, Germany. The excursion was taken according to promise, and a grand feast was spread for the delectation of the excursionists, after partaking of which, dancing and music whiled away the time. Liquors were furnished in great abundance, and the merry company soon became oblivious to all external surroundings. When they began to get sober they awoke to the realization of the fact that they were bound to take a longer "excursion" than they had bargained for. The captain told them they were bound for New York, and at that port they were landed in the fall, after a long passage. Not being able to pay their passage, the captain, according to the laws and customs of the time, apprenticed them to the highest bidder for a length of time sufficient to pay his claim. The men were all apprenticed to Livingston and brought to the furnace at Ancram, where they served the term of their apprenticeship, four and one-half years, to pay seven pounds passage-money. At the expiration of their term of service Livingston offered them the choice of any unoccupied farm on the manor which they might select, and which he promised to lease to them upon favorable terms. They all accepted his offer.
> 
> - History of Columbia County, New York


 Heck! Reminds me of 'Kidnapped'...


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I've discovered that my mother's maiden name is apparently one of the rarest in Ireland - original spelling is this:

O'Foirbhilhe.

Also a grandfather of hers walked 100s of miles from somewhere in Wales specifically to enlist with the Coldstream Guards in the North of England. Still got a photo of him from c. 1900 in his dress uniform.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Actually, my post isn't really relevant to the thread in general - I think I misunderstood. Sorry!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> Actually, my post isn't really relevant to the thread in general - I think I misunderstood. Sorry!


It's fine - it throws a light on how people without means had to walk for days to get work etc. 
Thanks for posting!

PS - A similar reminiscence: When we were looking into Taggart's Irish ancestry, we discovered 'the hiring fair', where Irish country people, even youngsters, got themselves taken on as farm servants for a year's pittance. There is a statue to commemorate the institution in Letterkenny, Donegal.

Tag's mother's mother was born in The Rosses, Donegal, in the Gaeltacht, and went over to Scotland to be a servant & was married to a Derry man in Stranraer in 1902. The bride's sister (Tag's great-aunt) signed the register with 'her mark' - we're not sure whether that meant that she couldn't write, or whether her first language being Irish, English spelling was the problem.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Ingélou said:


> My epiphany came earlier today, when I realised that Britain only got universal manhood suffrage much later in the nineteenth century, and full female suffrage in about 1930. Schooling was pretty hit and miss in 1847 too.


At least you got universal manhood suffrage in the nineteenth century.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

A few years ago I picked this book up in a charity shop:










It contains many amusing (and less amusing) words and phrases.

Here's a few:

*Lully Priggers*: Thieves who steal wet linen.

*Nubbing Cove*: A hangman.

*Dog Buffers*: Thieves who steal dogs for their skins.

*Clouting Lay*: Picking pockets of handkerchiefs.

*Noisy Dog Racket*: Stealing brass knockers from doors

*Cucumbers*: Taylors [sic], who are jocularly said to subsist, during the summer, chiefly on cucumbers.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Anti-Prohibition posters touting the healthfulness of beer for children.

Many US breweries were actually OK with prohibition as long as it excluded beer. Wineries and distilleries often took the opposite course, linking beer to low-class immigrant thuggery. These sorts of disputes didn't help the "wets." The "drys," on the other hand, were superb at keeping their coalition together.









_The young, ruddy with good cheer,
serenely sips his lager beer._


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

A few days ago we were staying two nights in the Czech spa resort Jáchymov. Perhaps the name doesn't ring a bell. In 1953 the Communist regime sent political prisoners here into the pits to dig up uranium. In those days there was a Cold War going on and the Soviet Union was surprising the world with the H-bomb, made by Sacharov. But where did they get the huge amount of uranium from? Yes, from this place. Many political prisoners had their health broken, something the communists didn't care about. In some way they beheaded the Czech society of its potential leaders, which makes one think of IS....


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

From reading Montaigne, I discovered that they (his father) did very modern sounding weight lifting exercises in the 16th century. Running and jumping with lead shoes, too. Amazing!


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