# Is Music a Drug?



## Serge

Hear me out, folks!

It takes me places that I’d rather be than where I am right now. It makes me see things that I know don’t exist. It consumes my time and scarce resources that I would be much wiser to spend somewhere else. It constantly keeps me seeking out some new and more powerful stuff. (The first hit of which may blow my mind on a rare occasion, but never a subsequent one.) And it leaves me anywhere from slightly irritated to deeply dissatisfied when it fails to deliver or live up to the “high” expectations. :devil:

Need I say more?


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## Manxfeeder

I don't know about music being a drug, but according to researchers at the Montreal Neurological Institute at McGill University, "When we listen to music, blood rushes away from areas of the brain linked to fear or depression and toward areas associated with intense pleasure: the same areas aroused by sex, chocolate, coffee, alcohol, and illicit drugs. " From Music and the Soul, Kurt Leland.


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## Krummhorn

I, myself, wouldn't call it a 'drug' per se ... rather a state of mind in which I can get into a trance like state with the instrument I play, the pipe organ. This happens for me when improvising which I often have to do to fill in the blank spots of our worship services. 

I guess I would label it 'addicting', and it always leaves me fulfilled, which lets me keep trying to get to the next level, whatever that may be. 

Kh


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## Huilunsoittaja

I think anything that gives euphoria could be considered a drug. I mean, rather than breathing or eating something, we use our ear to absorbs sound waves that go through neurons in our brain and hit signals to release endorphin. It just doesn't have _physical_ effects the same way as a stimulant or depressant.

That's the good thing about music: it's _relatively_ harmless. I guess someone could abuse it, just like any other drug, because it can be treated the same way (i.e. getting a "fix"). But you won't _kill_ brain cells, it probably initiates the _creation_ of them instead.

If I want stimulation, I listen to music. I'd take it over alcohol or smoking _any_ day. Even in the next few years, when I'll be allowed to smoke and drink, I think I'd still prefer it. Or, other music I will be addicted to.


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## opus55

My wife complains of second hand listening.


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## rojo

^ :lol:

Well, if I'm not mistaken, I think I read that music stimulates regions of the brain that are responsible for pleasure, so it's definitely got some similarities to drugs.

It's surely a healthier way to get high though. To my knowledge, long-term use doesn't cause brain damage.


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## World Violist

In the sense that drugs are generally known to be physical things: No.

In the sense that music is mind-altering in some ways: Yes.

In the sense that virtually every experience in life is mind-altering in some ways, and therefore if music is to be considered a drug then every other experience must also be: No.

I answered "maybe" anyway, because I felt like it.


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## Weston

I once read of research some time ago proclaiming it has as profound a physiological effect as sex, and sex produces lots of dopamine the same as many recreational drugs. So yes. I would consider music a drug of sorts.


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## Boccherini

*Yes and No*

Music can kill the unadulterated, and enliven the defiled.


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## Yoshi

A healthy drug.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jan said:


> A healthy drug.


Music is a something that God Created, just like water.

Water is pure by its definition, but it can get spoiled by people contaminating it.
So too, music. Its a pure creation, but if some people decide to contaminate it with their dark souls, dark ideas, dark feelings, then it can become a terrible drug that can devastate. Water can save life and it also can end life, look at the flood in Genesis.
Music can enrich life and benefit people greatly if it was written by good worthy men, if not it can be a source of bad influence and total negativity.


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## Serge

Ironically, you’ve just reminded me of what Karl Marx said about religion.

But can we please keep our discussion about whether or not music is a drug clean by not dragging god into it?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Serge said:


> Ironically, you've just reminded me of what Karl Marx said about religion.
> 
> But can we please keep our discussion about whether or not music is a drug clean by not dragging god into it?


This was my opinion, on the subject.

Now you can move on ...


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## Yoshi

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Music is a something that God Created, just like water.
> 
> Water is pure by its definition, but it can get spoiled by people contaminating it.
> So too, music. Its a pure creation, but if some people decide to contaminate it with their dark souls, dark ideas, dark feelings, then it can become a terrible drug that can devastate. Water can save life and it also can end life, look at the flood in Genesis.
> Music can enrich life and benefit people greatly if it was written by good worthy men, if not it can be a source of bad influence and total negativity.


I've always been an atheist, so none of that made sense to me. 
But now I'm curious about one of the things you said. How could music be a source of bad influence and total negativity? Can you give an example?


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## emiellucifuge

Diabolus in Musica


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## Huilunsoittaja

Jan said:


> How could music be a source of bad influence and total negativity? Can you give an example?


Promotion of Communism and Fascism, 2 incredibly harmful and oppressive forms of government... With that personally, I believe that stuff can be redeemed, if one ignores the implications of the music and simply enjoys it for its beauty.
Promotion of Surrealism, which is the the belief that there is no absolute truth (or beauty), which is in itself a lie... I have more trouble redeeming that kind of music, but maybe it's possible. It's quite sad that music has to be influenced so much by philosophy, but it's always been for 100s of years, not just now.


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## Yoshi

emiellucifuge said:


> Diabolus in Musica


I thought people stopped believing in that centuries ago 



Huilunsoittaja said:


> Promotion of Communism and Fascism, 2 incredibly harmful and oppressive forms of government... With that personally, I believe that stuff can be redeemed, if one ignores the implications of the music and simply enjoys it for its beauty.
> Promotion of Surrealism, which is the the belief that there is no absolute truth (or beauty), which is in itself a lie... I have more trouble redeeming that kind of music, but maybe it's possible. It's quite sad that music has to be influenced so much by philosophy, but it's always been for 100s of years, not just now.


Interesting. But I guess that to be influenced like that, they would have to know the symbolism behind that music. I just don't see how some sequence of sounds can have a bad influence on someone.


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## emiellucifuge

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Promotion of Communism and Fascism, 2 incredibly harmful and oppressive forms of government... With that personally, I believe that stuff can be redeemed, if one ignores the implications of the music and simply enjoys it for its beauty.
> Promotion of Surrealism, which is the the belief that there is no absolute truth (or beauty), which is in itself a lie... I have more trouble redeeming that kind of music, but maybe it's possible. It's quite sad that music has to be influenced so much by philosophy, but it's always been for 100s of years, not just now.


What are you talking about?! 
Communism is a beatiful idea, I hardly see how the promotion of the ideals of a classless society is harmful in the least.
Same goes for surrealism - who are you to say it is a lie? Any form of art without a philosophy is substanceless


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## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> What are you talking about?!
> Communism is a beatiful idea, I hardly see how the promotion of the ideals of a classless society is harmful in the least.
> Same goes for surrealism - who are you to say it is a lie? Any form of art without a philosophy is substanceless


She's a young American. If you don't already know, there's been a pretty big anti-Commie/Pinko sentiment in the US for about 60 years. Add to that some people can't seperate the idea from the realisation, which you have to admit has not been implemented too well over the years(USSR, Cambodia). Rugged individualism is still pretty popular over there as exemplified by the Teapartiers.

Anyway, there is only one drug for me:


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## emiellucifuge

Ah yes of course, its that strange culture there - Mccarthy religious paranoia etc.. ad absurdum.
Yes - the realisation has been awful, but perhaps thats the fault of the human spirit which is prone to corruption and power corrupts.


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## Argus

emiellucifuge said:


> Ah yes of course, its that strange culture there - Mccarthy religious paranoia etc.. ad absurdum.
> Yes - the realisation has been awful, but perhaps thats the fault of the human spirit which is prone to corruption and power corrupts.


El pueblo unido jamas sera vencido, comrade.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jan said:


> I've always been an atheist, so none of that made sense to me.
> But now I'm curious about one of the things you said. How could music be a source of bad influence and total negativity? Can you give an example?


Basically if you look down the history, music was always something that helped people get closer to God and Spirituality. If the music that you listen brings you closer to God, then its Good Music. If the Music that you listen creates within you a rebellion against God, then its bad music.

Music that doesn't get you close to God but yet doesn't disrupt you from your faith, should be ok too.


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## emiellucifuge

Yes.... Except he just stated he was an atheist so none of that applies to him.


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## Aksel

Jan said:


> I've always been an atheist, so none of that made sense to me.
> But now I'm curious about one of the things you said. How could music be a source of bad influence and total negativity? Can you give an example?


That rock and roll music the youngsters are listening to nowadays.


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## Yoshi

emiellucifuge said:


> Yes.... Except he just stated he was an atheist so none of that applies to him.


You're right it doesn't apply to me... but I guess I see his point now.



Aksel said:


> That rock and roll music the youngsters are listening to nowadays.


:devil:


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## Huilunsoittaja

emiellucifuge said:


> What are you talking about?!
> Communism is a beatiful idea, I hardly see how the promotion of the ideals of a classless society is harmful in the least.
> Same goes for surrealism - who are you to say it is a lie? Any form of art without a philosophy is substanceless


 I hope your just being sarcastic...

As to Jan's comment, yeah, it's hard to find an actual piece of music that has a real negative affect in its very notes. Maybe one that makes you want to kill yourself because it's so sad?? hah, maybe


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## myaskovsky2002

*WoW!*



PHP:


I don't know about music being a drug, but according to researchers at the Montreal Neurological Institute at McGill University, "When we listen to music, blood rushes away from areas of the brain linked to fear or depression and toward areas associated with intense pleasure: the same areas aroused by sex, chocolate, coffee, alcohol, and illicit drugs. " From Music and the Soul, Kurt Leland.

I agree 99.5% LOL Always a doubt.

Music healthy? I am not sure.
I am music dependent...is that good? I am not sure either.
My mood follows the music. Is this good, I'm not sure either.
I pass my time analizing the music...I can delect myself or suffer a bit...Is this good? I'm not sure either...
My son's a music freak, he works with music, he lives with music, his conversation is 75%

Is he happy? He is. Is he a freak? well...he is.

Look for *john nathaniel on google*, you'll see more than 100 references of my freaky-son!
But he sings very well, he composes very well, he's also a producer.

Good night

Martin


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## emiellucifuge

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I hope your just being sarcastic...


Not at all


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## Aramis

1) I think Huilunsoittaja was referring to Russian composers from XXth century that took part in stalinist (and later) propaganda which can't be defended with naive claims of "beautiful ideas"

2) Nothing wrong with dreaming about fair society and all other utopian stuff, but specifical propagation of communism is harmful because it can convice less smart people blind for historical facts proving illness of communism as real system that it's good thing that should be resurrected which could eventually lead to disaster


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I hope your just being sarcastic...
> 
> As to Jan's comment, yeah, it's hard to find an actual piece of music that has a real negative affect in its very notes. Maybe one that makes you want to kill yourself because it's so sad?? hah, maybe


I was not being sarcastic.


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## Yoshi

Huilunsoittaja said:


> As to Jan's comment, yeah, it's hard to find an actual piece of music that has a real negative affect in its very notes. Maybe one that makes you want to kill yourself because it's so sad?? hah, maybe


Yes I guess that could happen 



Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> I was not being sarcastic.


I think he was replying to emiellucifuge.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jan said:


> Yes I guess that could happen
> 
> I think he was replying to emiellucifuge.


Yes he was...:lol::tiphat:


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## Huilunsoittaja

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> he




Perhaps I should change my signature. But I'm keeping the Enfant Terrible as my profile picture.


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## Aramis

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Perhaps I should change my signature. But I'm keeping the Enfant Terrible as my profile picture.


Putting picture of female reproductive organs at your avatar could solve the problem of people taking you for male.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Aramis said:


> Putting picture of female reproductive organs at your avatar could solve the problem of people taking you for male.


:lol: Probably not.

*Ahem* back to topic.


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## Edward Elgar

Yes and no. However there isn't an option for that so I put yes. Music is what you want it to be. I used music in the past to numb the pain of life (Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky), but now it stimulates aural interest and excitement (Webern, Sciarrino, Nono, Beethoven).


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## emiellucifuge

Rachmaninov is good for that isnt it?


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## myaskovsky2002

I don't know if you know, but Huilunsoittaja is a young girl in Finland who plays the flute.

Martin


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## jxlmcg

Particularly potent addictive drug interaction: buying music CDs. Shopping and music...


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## Lenfer

World Violist said:


> In the sense that drugs are generally known to be physical things: No.
> 
> In the sense that music is mind-altering in some ways: Yes.
> 
> In the sense that virtually every experience in life is mind-altering in some ways, and therefore if music is to be considered a drug then every other experience must also be: No.
> 
> I answered "maybe" anyway, because I felt like it.


I agree with you *W.V* it's not a drug as it is not a chemical compound that can enter the blood stream. It can bring pleasure and pain it is a mind-altering experience, I'd say it was more like sex than a drug.


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## Kopachris

Studies have shown that social networking (e.g. Facebook, Twitter) induces "seeking" behavior in humans very similarly to meth. The brain gets a hit of dopamine when it gets a "find" (e.g. a "Like"). In this way, Facebook and Twitter are addictive by _exactly_ the same mechanism as meth. I'm fairly certain that music has the same effect on us classical-heads, where we get a "find" when our expectations in music are fulfilled after a period of novelty and/or instability (seeking) in the music.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Its a drug and I need some more..............


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## Capeditiea

...i am addicted to it...


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## classicalmusicfinder

Serge said:


> Hear me out, folks!
> 
> It takes me places that I’d rather be than where I am right now. It makes me see things that I know don’t exist. It consumes my time and scarce resources that I would be much wiser to spend somewhere else. It constantly keeps me seeking out some new and more powerful stuff. (The first hit of which may blow my mind on a rare occasion, but never a subsequent one.) And it leaves me anywhere from slightly irritated to deeply dissatisfied when it fails to deliver or live up to the “high” expectations. :devil:
> 
> Need I say more?



Not a drug, just something that elevates you. Something that, actually elevates you. Art or meditation or staring into a fire do the same. That is what drugs attempt to do, but are two dimensional and come with more than a couple drawbacks.


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## NoCoPilot

It's not a drug. I can quit any time I want.

Really. It's just that I don't want to, right now.


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## Ingélou

No, it isn't. I don't lose myself in it, and I've had large periods of my life when I didn't listen to it much. It's beautiful and compelling, but so are love, sex, natural beauty, physical activity and reading. Any of these can become an 'addiction' but they are not usually regarded as drugs. 

Has this become a thread where people prove their worth by saying how addicted they are?


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## Roger Knox

Ingélou said:


> Has this become a thread where people prove their worth by saying how addicted they are?


I hope not, because that would mean they feel a need to give up their free will. There is a contradiction where being free to try anything, to see life as "experiences," to be able to add them to your "bucket list," runs the risk of trying things that can be addictive and continuing to do them because you're "really into" them. Then you're not free.


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## 4chamberedklavier

It's not good to develop an unhealthy obsession with anything, but music's addictive potential is much weaker than other activities. It's relatively safe.


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## Luchesi

4chamberedklavier said:


> It's not good to develop an unhealthy obsession with anything, but music's addictive potential is much weaker than other activities. It's relatively safe.


But I think every addiction/obsession is a ride on the very same brain chemicals - from the same brain centers.


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## atsizat

Music changes things on brain but so do drugs. 

You can use the music drug when you are on a physical drug yourself. In this case, you will have 2 drugs at the same time.


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## Krummhorn

Music isn't a "drug" ... but it can be addicting!


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## atsizat

Krummhorn said:


> Music isn't a "drug" ... but it can be addicting!


Music causes psychological addiction.


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