# Orchestral songs/song cycles



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I have heard but a few. Those I have heard are fantastic: Mahler's Songs of a Wayfarer, Strauss' Four Last Songs (and a handful of one-off lieder), Alban Berg's Altenberg Lieder (this one is my favorite)... Webern has many and they are all great. I think that's it, though. 

What are some of our other favorites?


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Barber - Knoxville, summer of 1915
Berlioz - Les Nuits d'été
Mahler - Kindertotenlieder
Mahler - Ruckertlieder
Ravel - Shéhérazade

and the uncategorizable:

Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Strauss Four last songs, Berlioz - Les Nuits d'été- Barber - Knoxville, summer of 1915.
In order this day.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Less well-known, but personal favourites:

Sallinen - Songs of life and death
Warlock - The curlew (six players rather than orchestral)

you should also try Shostakovich' 14th symphony, which is basically a song cycle.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Alexander von Zemlinsky's _Symphonische Gesänge_ op.20, set to African-American texts
Dmitri Shostakovich's _Six Poems by Marina Tsvetayeva_ op.143a
Benjamin Britten's _Les Illuminations_ op.18, set to texts of Arthur Rimbaud


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Vaughan Williams "On Wenlock Edge"
Britten's Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

There's a great new cd out by Veronique Gens singing Chausson's Poemes de L'amour et de La Mer. Fabulous interpretation of a much under-rated song cycle. It is much influenced by Wagner.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

These are my favourites, alongside my favourite recordings of each, which isn't to say I don't enjoy performances by others as well.

Berlioz: Les Nuits d'Eté - Baker/Barbirolli
Britten: Quatre Chansons Françaises - Gomez/Rattle
Britten: Serenade for Tenor Horn and Strngs - Pears/Tuckwell/Britten
Britten: Les Illuminations - Lott/Thomson
Canteloube: Chants d'Auvergne - De Los Angeles/Jacquillat
Chausson: Poème de l'amour et de la mer - Baker/Svetlanov
Elgar: Sea Pictures - Baker/Barbirolli
Lambert: Eight Songs of Li Po Langridge/Nash Ensemble
Mahler: Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen - Baker/Barbirolli
Mahler: Kindertotenlieder - Baker/Barbirolli
Mahler: Rückert Lieder - Baker/Barbirolli
Mahler: Des Knaben Wunderhorn - Schwarzkopf/Fischer-Dieskau/Szell
Maher: Das Lied von der Erde - Baker/Kmentt/Kubelik
Mompou: El combat del somni - De Los Angeles/Frühbeck de Burgos
Montsalvatge: Cinco canciones negras De Los Angeles/Frühbeck de Burgos
Rachmaninov: Vocalise - Moffo/Stokowski
Sibelius : Luonnotar - Bryn-Julson/Gibson
Strauss: Vier letzte Lieder - Schwarzkopf/Szell
Vaughan Williams: On Wenlock Edge (chamber version) - Langridge/Shelley/Britten Qt
Vaughan Williams: On Wenlock Edge (Orchetrsal version) - Bostridge/Haitink
Warlock: The Curlew - Partridge/Music Group of London

There are also loads of orchestral songs by Strauss (not all orchestrated by Strauss) and most of the sopranos who have recorded the VLL, have also recorded selections.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> These are my favourites, alongside my favourite recordings of each, which isn't to say I don't enjoy performances by others as well.
> 
> Berlioz: Les Nuits d'Eté - Baker/Barbirolli
> Britten: Quatre Chansons Françaises - Gomez/Rattle
> ...


Thanks again Greg. The poorhouse beckons yet again. I don't know the Lambert, the Mompou (whose instrumental stuff I love) or the Montsalvatge. I will, of course, have to remedy that!


----------



## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Wagner: Wesendonk Lieder
Wolf: Der Feuerreitter


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

One I forgot.

Wagner: Wesendonk Lieder - Baker/Boult


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> These are my favourites, alongside my favourite recordings of each, which isn't to say I don't enjoy performances by others as well.
> 
> Berlioz: Les Nuits d'Eté - Baker/Barbirolli
> Britten: Quatre Chansons Françaises - Gomez/Rattle
> ...


Greg, what album are the Mompou - El Combat del Somni songs on with Angeles and Burgos? I can see three of them on the Maiden and the Nightingale album but not the other two. Cheers.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Greg, what album are the Mompou - El Combat del Somni songs on with Angeles and Burgos? I can see three of them on the Maiden and the Nightingale album but not the other two. Cheers.


I'm not absolutely sure, but I think only three of them were orchestrated. In any case, it's a terrific album. Don't hesitate.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> I'm not absolutely sure, but I think only three of them were orchestrated. In any case, it's a terrific album. Don't hesitate.


I found a nice album with the complete cycle on voice and piano with Marisa Martins and Mac McClure. Very enjoyable and nice to hear the complete sequence.


----------



## Schwammerl (Apr 4, 2020)

But in cases where both orchestral and piano versions are available, which do we prefer? I would not want to be without, for instance, Strauss' lush orchestrations of his Four Last Songs: the piano simply can't match the shimmering autumnal sunlight evoked by the woodwind at the opening of _September_ or the evocation of the mountains (from the composer of the Alpine Symphony) at the start of _Im Abendrot_.

But there is a price to be paid for that colour: flexibility and intimacy. An orchestra is a big ship that even an experienced captain can't turn around quickly enough to make it respond to small changes in tempo or mood from a singer, whereas the best singer/pianist combinations do this together wonderfully. The result is that orchestral song performances can sound bland compared with performances accompanied by a piano.

The other problem is that no matter how well orchestrated the song is, any singer will always struggle somewhat to be heard against an orchestra at some points, and will sing louder than they really want to. So we don't get the full dynamic range possible in a song, especially at the quieter end, and again, the result is blander.

Listen to Janet Baker and Geoffrey Parsons do some of Mahler's Wunderhorn songs together (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=87925) and compare these performances with orchestral recordings and I think you will hear this.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

.............................


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Chants d'Auvergne, Netania Davrath


----------



## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I've been listening to this. Frank Martin's Die Weise von Liebe und Tod des Cornets Christoph Rilke, for alto and small orchestra. Emotionally heavy stuff. I can't say I understand more than 10% of it, but I'm trying and I've found it highly captivating.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

MAS said:


> View attachment 140925
> 
> 
> Chants d'Auvergne, Netania Davrath


Been meaning to check this out...


----------



## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

Here's a little gem from Elisabeth Grümmer and the the pianist -and composer, got his "Lear" opera on my shelves- Aribert Reimann:

















Whole-heartedly recommended.

Regards,

Vincula


----------



## EmperorOfIceCream (Jan 3, 2020)

Correspondances by Henri Dutilleux. It is my favorite orchestral song cycle, and perhaps the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. I listen to it everyday. Dutilleux wrote it when he was 87, and so the texts are about art, life, death, and the divine. For me, I think Dutilleux wrote it as his own epitaph, as a grand summation of not only his music but also his life. In the second movement, the soprano sings about the skeletons of the past engulfed in flames, creating new souls, and the flames in our hearts that sing of the future. My favorite part is the final movement. Sometiems I cry when I hear "...Tant que durera l'automne, je n'aurai pas assez de mains, de toile et de couleurs pour peindre ce que je vois de beau," which means 'As long as autumn lasts, I will not have enough hands, canvas, or colors to paint the beauty I see.' This is from Van Gogh, but Dutilleux is also surely talking about himself at the end of his life and his desire to compose to until his last day (he did, publishing another song cycle on the subject of time when he was 93). Indeed, the whole movement is Dutilleux talking about himself through Van Gogh. And next we hear 'I have a terrible need of religion. So, I go into the night, outside, to paint the stars. Feeling the stars and infinity, clearly, life is then all the same almost enchanted.' The whole thing is just so beautiful. It's only 23 minutes, but it is one of those pieces of music that feels like everything so perfectly leads to the next; it is always changing but always connected. And then there is the very end, with Van Gogh writing about his desire to use color to show the madness that can seize people. Suddenly a snare drum comes out, everything gets faster, and the orchestra explodes around the singer ringing out a C#6. (Also, as a side note, it makes me so mad that music lik Dvorak's Gypsy Melodies or Ives's Booth Enters into Heaven, which is 5 minutes and not even orchestrated, is in the top 100 vocal works list and not this. To me that's just insane. It's sad that famous names are elevated simply for being famous.)


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

EmperorOfIceCream said:


> Correspondances by Henri Dutilleux. It is my favorite orchestral song cycle, and perhaps the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. I listen to it everyday. Dutilleux wrote it when he was 87, and so the texts are about art, life, death, and the divine. For me, I think Dutilleux wrote it as his own epitaph, as a grand summation of not only his music but also his life. In the second movement, the soprano sings about the skeletons of the past engulfed in flames, creating new souls, and the flames in our hearts that sing of the future. My favorite part is the final movement. Sometiems I cry when I hear "...Tant que durera l'automne, je n'aurai pas assez de mains, de toile et de couleurs pour peindre ce que je vois de beau," which means 'As long as autumn lasts, I will not have enough hands, canvas, or colors to paint the beauty I see.' This is from Van Gogh, but Dutilleux is also surely talking about himself at the end of his life and his desire to compose to until his last day (he did, publishing another song cycle on the subject of time when he was 93). Indeed, the whole movement is Dutilleux talking about himself through Van Gogh. And next we hear 'I have a terrible need of religion. So, I go into the night, outside, to paint the stars. Feeling the stars and infinity, clearly, life is then all the same almost enchanted.' The whole thing is just so beautiful. It's only 23 minutes, but it is one of those pieces of music that feels like everything so perfectly leads to the next; it is always changing but always connected. And then there is the very end, with Van Gogh writing about his desire to use color to show the madness that can seize people. Suddenly a snare drum comes out, everything gets faster, and the orchestra explodes around the singer ringing out a C#6. (Also, as a side note, it makes me so mad that music lik Dvorak's Gypsy Melodies or Ives's Booth Enters into Heaven, which is 5 minutes and not even orchestrated, is in the top 100 vocal works list and not this. To me that's just insane. It's sad that famous names are elevated simply for being famous.)


Wow, you've inspired me to revisit this work. I have it as part of the Dutilleux Centenary Edition box, can't recall who is the singer. Thanks much.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Emperor, thanks again for your testimony. You've inspired me to revisit both Correspondances and Le Temps l'horloge, both beautifully autumnal song cycles from the elderly composer. So good!


----------

