# Andras Schiff: Well Tempered Clavier



## msvadi (Apr 14, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I was looking to buy the album in digital format, when I noticed a bunch of comments posted on Amazon saying that that the quality of the files on Amazon and iTunes is terrible:

http://goo.gl/ca74l

People in particular complain about 4-04 Das Wohltemperierte Klavier_ Book 2, BWV 870-893 - Fuge fis-Moll, BWV 883.

I listened to the previews, but did not notice any problems. I wonder if the problems have been fixed. Any ideas?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Hmmm...I see only one review mentioning this problem. Not unusual at Amazon! Am I missing something?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm a bit of a purist, so have 'issues' with people trying to 'save money' and buy these downloadable versions in various formats.

Unless you can download the full-bit recording as it is on the commercially released CD, and then burn it yourself, in one way or another you are dealing with 'horribly compressed' audio, missing so much of the full color of the sound that it makes me think, 'exactly how much do the consumers of those compressed formats hear, anyway?'

I listen to Youtube links regularly, but would never pay a penny for less than CD quality if I were buying, CD's already with less frequency range than the older format classical LP's. 

I suppose it is a matter of "how much one is willing to do without."

Call me fussy. (and no, I do not write a jot on Amazon, anyplace


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## msvadi (Apr 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Hmmm...I see only one review mentioning this problem. Not unusual at Amazon! Am I missing something?


There are several comments posted in response to that review.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I'm a bit of a purist, so have 'issues' with people trying to 'save money' and buy these downloadable versions in various formats.
> 
> Unless you can download the full-bit recording as it is on the commercially released CD, and then burn it yourself, in one way or another you are dealing with 'horribly compressed' audio, missing so much of the full color of the sound that it makes me think, 'exactly how much do the consumers of those compressed formats hear, anyway?'
> 
> ...


At last, a voice of sanity among the MP3-zombies. I finally woke up to my own transgressions in listening to Mp3s, and now have a real, stand-alone CD player within reach of my computer. At my age, I figure I only have so many more years to listen to music, and it's going to be the highest quality possible. If I burn an MP3, it has to be at 360 Kbps, without variable rate, no filtering.
I now burn-in all CDs into i-tunes as AIFF files, and if I burn any CDs for car listening, it will be AIFF.

This also revealed to me the real appeal of having music on computers: everything is in one place, MP3s are for portable devices, all info is displayed and can be accessed by artist or song, etc., and none of this appeal applies to sound quality.

Right at the present, America and the world are obsessed by their smart phones and apps like facebook and i-tunes, but things always eventually change, and in about 20 years everybody will finally wake up from this digital matrix, I hope. I'll be dead by then, thankfully.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Just in case you check the info from your music, and you get teribly upset: 320kbps is max mp3 quality.


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## perduto (Aug 28, 2012)

Most of my music purchases are CDs that were recorded with great care by dedicated musicians and sound engineers, often released by small labels, always run by music enthusiasts (none of them drives a Ferrari).
Listening to mp3s would be an insult to them (and to my ears).


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

If you want digital files, I would recommend finding an online music store that sells FLAC encoded files. Assuming the source for the encode was the original 1st generation audio and they were encoded properly, they will be exactly the same as what you hear on the physical discs.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2012)

Most Amazon MP3s are in the low to mid 200kbps region. I just looked at my Ades Violin Concerto's bit rate: 222kbps!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I believe (looking for corrrection) that Amazon uses 256K VBR (variable bit rate). This is not a constant 256K bit rate but adjusts the rate down when indicated by the nature of the sound, probably to reduce the file size. A 256K VBR file will always show less the 256K because, on average, it _is _less -- sometimes, though rarely, in the high 100s.

Most people around here probably rip at 320K CBR (constant bit rate), which will always show 320K. Personally, I hear no difference in sound but use 320K anyway due to peer pressure!


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## msvadi (Apr 14, 2012)

I think that format is a matter of preference. Some people accept only vinyl. Others (like me) can't a difference between CDs and high quality compressed files. I used to buy only CDs until I ran out of storage space in our living room. I did then extensive blind testing on my family members and myself using very good quality professional headphones (Shure 840): none of us could tell apart CDs from iTunes quality compressed files. At that point, I stopped purchasing CDs, because digital music is much more convenient. But I of course understand if someone decides to stick to CD or higher quality music for whatever reason.

Going back to Schiff's Well tempered clavier. In the review on Amazon, it was mentioned that there was noticeable warble and stuttering on disc 4 track 4. They also said that the problem was not with Amazon only, and that most likely the same poor quality files were provided by the label to iTunes. From the preview files on iTunes and Amazon, I cannot hear anything out of order, so I was wondering if anyone here may be purchased those files recently, and if the problem was fixed. Thanks again.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I just did a comparison of various compression methods. Here are the results (read: compression method, reported resulting bit rate, % of disc space required vs. WAV).

WAV: n/a, 100%
FLAC: n/a, 39%
MP3 320K CBR: 320K, 23%
MP3 256K VBR: 216-227K, 16%
MP3 128K VBR: 107-116K, 8%

This was a 71-minute CD of Schubert orchestral music.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

CBR is kind of an anachronism, from a time when VBR decoding was too processor intensive for most media players. If you are going to have lossy audio compression you might as well use 245kbps VBR, it is a much more efficient trade between quality and size. If you want higher quality stick to lossless FLAC.


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