# Next Door



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Looks like Opera-L has been banned for contentious material (expletives galore, political mayhem). Looks like all that is left now that is an active opera site is Rec music, besides this one. Am I missing one?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Looks like Opera-L has been banned for contentious material (expletives galore, political mayhem). Looks like all that is left now that is an active opera site is Rec music, besides this one. Am I missing one?


I gave up in Opera-L ages ago because I found the bitchiness just too much. I've never heard of Rec music.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I still got some emails this afternoon.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> I still got some emails this afternoon.


What? Really? Tell me how. All I get is that scary message.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> What? Really? Tell me how. All I get is that scary message.


Not sure I know how. That's how I get Opera-L. I don't go to the site. The last mail was at 4:30 their time.

M


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I was active there 15 years ago or so till it got too bitchy. Here we have differing opinions but are nice to each other otherwise. Makes a big difference.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I was active there 15 years ago or so till it got too bitchy. Here we have differing opinions but are nice to each other otherwise. Makes a big difference.


They are still at it. The members sometimes have good things to say, but the attacking each other is far too painful to read.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> They are still at it. The members sometimes have good things to say, but the attacking each other is far too painful to read.


That sounds fascinating, in a sorta kinda way. What do people do that's so unpleasant? Are there long-standing feuds over long-dead sopranos (ho hum)?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> That sounds fascinating, in a sorta kinda way. What do people do that's so unpleasant? Are there long-standing feuds over long-dead sopranos (ho hum)?


It's like a long running feud amongst some members, full of vituperative personal comments and name-calling.

Also there are some attacks on favorite singers; there is one Argentinian who loves Tebaldi and demeans all other sopranos - only she has the perfect voice and he hears no flat notes; most others have no real voices. He also attacks Callas fans, claiming they all hate Tebaldi. This guy is apparently too young to have seen her live but is truly obsessed with Renata.

Normally, I just delete the emails as soon as I realize they're not about opera or opera singers.

There are also personal attacks on someone who loves Studer as well as Studer herself.

It just makes for an unpleasant atmosphere, though some members are knowledgeable. There is way too much bitchiness from some of them. I quit the List twice because it became unbearable, but I think the List is much smaller now and a bit less contentious.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

That Studer obsesssive person has jumped over here as well with a more receptive group who responds better to him.
Because there are a few troll type persons and some bloviated personalities that need to see their thoughts in print doesn't mean all of the members are that way. To me it is a much more open if dysfunctional family but there are many who are quite knowledgeable and that's what I'm mainly interested in -- learning new things about singers and opera.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

MAS said:


> It's like a long running feud amongst some members, full of vituperative personal comments and name-calling.
> 
> Also there are some attacks on favorite singers; there is one Argentinian who loves Tebaldi and demeans all other sopranos - only she has the perfect voice and he hears no flat notes; most others have no real voices. He also attacks Callas fans, claiming they all hate Tebaldi. This guy is apparently too young to have seen her live but is truly obsessed with Renata.
> 
> ...


The Argentinian isn't the big problem, his senselessness comes across very clearly that I don't think anybody pays much heed. He leaves the same comments everywhere on youtube as well, under many accounts. There is another Callas hater there, a Greek(shockingly) who spreads hate claiming it to be informed criticism.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> The Argentinian isn't the big problem, his senselessness comes across very clearly that I don't think anybody pays much heed. He leaves the same comments everywhere on youtube as well, under many accounts. There is another Callas hater there, a Greek(shockingly) who spreads hate claiming it to be informed criticism.


With due respect to you I disagree. I believe that the "Argentinian" is the main troublemaker for everyone because he constantly harps on Callas having no talent and Tebaldi is "the goddess of all time" (my words).
He is practically universally dismissed by the members who enjoy nothing more than to stir the pot like little children. If they ignored him he would eventually go away.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

nina foresti said:


> With due respect to you I disagree. I believe that the "Argentinian" is the main troublemaker for everyone because he constantly harps on Callas having no talent and Tebaldi is "the goddess of all time" (my words).
> He is practically universally dismissed by the members who enjoy nothing more than to stir the pot like little children. If they ignored him he would eventually go away.


I too agree that the Argentinian is the 'main troublemaker', but one can understand that most of his arguments are redundant and ridiculous. His criticism of Callas is more or less "strident top, soprano coloratura high notes, colourless, from head voice" which is just repeated constantly. When I briefly received emails from the site, I instantly knew who he was based on his idiosyncratic writing, since I came across him on youtube, where he leaves the same redundant criticisms. The Greek, assuming you know who I'm referring to, on the other hand, comes up with all sorts of 'flaws' in Callas, some exaggerated, some invented and denies any of the unique virtues that she possessed, while claiming to be an admirer. If I can remember correctly, Tsaraslondon, once mentioned in the recorded legacy thread, that it was because of said Greek that he withdrew from Opera-L.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I gave up in Opera-L ages ago because I found the bitchiness just too much. I've never heard of Rec music.


I was among the first members of Opera-L, about thirty years ago, when it was run out of a Brazilian server. Messages were often delayed by hours, which encouraged people to write thoughtfully (and not excessively often). Once Opera-L migrated to a more efficient platform, and was mentioned in Opera News, there was an influx of people with a lot less to say, but who said it a lot more often. At least it was moderated to some degree, which kept some of the worse bitchiness out.

As the years went by, the most informative and knowledgeable posters tended to either leave the forum or stop posting. And once it moved to Google Groups and was unmoderated, the signal-to-noise ratio dropped even more precipitously. I left about a year ago after about thirty years of continuous membership - there was so little of substance that it wasn't worth putting up with all of the people with psychopathology.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

nina foresti said:


> He is practically universally dismissed by the members who enjoy nothing more than to stir the pot like little children. If they ignored him he would eventually go away.


He's been on Opera-L for a very, very long time and isn't likely to go away. He reappears any time anyone makes a negative comment about Tebaldi or a positive one about Callas. But I always found him pretty easy to ignore - there have been far more toxic folks on Opera-L, particularly recently.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> I too agree that the Argentinian is the 'main troublemaker', but one can understand that most of his arguments are redundant and ridiculous. His criticism of Callas is more or less "strident top, soprano coloratura high notes, colourless, from head voice" which is just repeated constantly. When I briefly received emails from the site, I instantly knew who he was based on his idiosyncratic writing, since I came across him on youtube, where he leaves the same redundant criticisms. The Greek, assuming you know who I'm referring to, on the other hand, comes up with all sorts of 'flaws' in Callas, some exaggerated, some invented and denies any of the unique virtues that she possessed, while claiming to be an admirer. If I can remember correctly, Tsaraslondon, once mentioned in the recorded legacy thread, that it was because of said Greek that he withdrew from Opera-L.


It wasn't me. I didn't leave because of any specific individual. I just didn't like the general tone and personal attacks. Maybe I have a weak constitution because it just wasn't for me.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It wasn't me. I didn't leave because of any specific individual. I just didn't like the general tone and personal attacks. Maybe I have a weak constitution because it just wasn't for me.


I apologise for taking your name out of nowhere, but you did mention said individual on post #5012 in the Maria Callas' recorded legacy thread on 9th Feb 2021. I understand. I myself couldn't last more than a week.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Shaafee Shameem said:


> I apologise for taking your name out of nowhere, but you did mention said individual on post #5012 in the Maria Callas' recorded legacy thread on 9th Feb 2021. I understand. I myself couldn't last more than a week.


I'd forgotten all about that exchange. I should have probably said, "people like Takis Pavi" as I don't have any memories of specific people and was just responding to MAS's posts about him.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Takis is pretty harmless. Lordy, I could name names much more disruptive than his.
For me the positives outweigh the negatives. There is a certain down-to-earth, relaxed quality that is appealing. Talk of recipes sometimes, or movies, or movie stars, or pop singers, or racial issues. (even, unfortunately lately, politics).


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

nina foresti said:


> Takis is pretty harmless. Lordy, I could name names much more disruptive than his.
> For me the positives outweigh the negatives. There is a certain down-to-earth, relaxed quality that is appealing. Talk of recipes sometimes, or movies, or movie stars, or pop singers, or racial issues. (even, unfortunately lately, politics).


I never said he was disruptive. I was only pointing out in my first reply that he was a greater Callas hater than the Argentinian, at least, as I see it.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I haven’t received any emails from this group for several days - I’ve also heard they’d been banned. Trying to access it from the web, I was told “content unavailable.”


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