# Strauss Tone Poems Recordings



## mahlernerd

I am starting to become interested in listening to the 10 tone poems of Richard Strauss. Do you guys have any specific recordings for his tone poems that you particularly enjoy. Thank you!


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## Enthusiast

How about Reiner's recordings? They were well recorded and many of them are quite special.


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## Manxfeeder

I like Rudolf Kempe and the Staatskapelle Dresden. In fact, they never really clicked with me until I heard that set.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Eine Alpensinfonie, Metamorphosen, Aus Italien, Don Quixote, Macbeth - Rudolf Kempe










Also sprach Zarathustra, Ein Heldenleben - Fritz Reiner










Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Tod und Verklärung - Wilhelm Fürtwangler










Sinfonia domestica - Herbert von Karajan


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## mbhaub

For my taste, Strauss demands extremely fine recording quality. The enormous changes in dynamics cannot ever be fully captured by any known recording method, but the wider the dynamic range, the better. And the recordings need clarity, which isn't easy either given the gigantic orchestras he scored for. For my ears, that rules out the early releases and the Brilliant re-release of Kempe, no matter how well conducted and played - and they've hardly been done better. But then Warner now has a low-priced 9-cd set that has all of Strauss' orchestral music. Made from rediscovered master tapes and this is the Strauss bargain of the century! Even if you don't like all of it (I don't), the price, sound, playing make it unbeatable.

But if you don't want everything:

I do like the Reiner/Chicago but make sure to find the SACD versions. They still sound quite good 60 years later, and the conducting is beyong reproach. 

Georg Solti made superb recordings with Chicago and Vienna and are in a low priced 2-fer that I really enjoy.

Lastly, George Szell made some recordings with Cleveland that are also terrific. Years later, Maazel recorded those pieces and a few others with Cleveland that did have the advantage of digital sound.


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## Heck148

mahlernerd said:


> I am starting to become interested in listening to the 10 tone poems of Richard Strauss. Do you guys have any specific recordings for his tone poems that you particularly enjoy. Thank you!


Can't go wrong with Reiner...Solti and Toscanini are fine also, same with Szell and Mehta (excellent Strauss conductor)..

Two really special ones - Reiner/CSO:
Don Juan (the 1960 one, the '54 one is outstanding as well, but '60 is even better - iirc- done on single take...
Also Sprach Zarathustra, ''62 ('54 is very good, '62 is superlative)

Also - Reiner/VPO - Till Eulenspiegel, Death & Transfiguration....great...
Reiner also recorded both of these with RCASO (MetOpera, NY Freelancers), which is probably even better, but they're harder to find at present.

Solti - Also Sprach Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel - excellent, highly recommended.


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## flamencosketches

I love Reiner's Also sprach Zarathustra, and Karajan's Tod und Verklärung. Those are the only Strauss tone poems in my library, as it turns out. I really need to collect more... I love both of them.


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## Knorf

One is liable to get shot in the head around here, or in the very least be accused of having no taste in music for saying so, but Karajan is at his best in Richard Strauss. Kempe is very close. I have done a huge amount of listening to Strauss far and wide, not to mention have played this music in professional orchestras, and I have concluded that Karajan and Kempe are by far the most consistently satisfying in this repertoire.

I do like the Szell/Cleveland recordings as well, and there are scattered other very good recordings, such as Steinberg/Boston for _Also sprach Zarathustra_. There are some decent recordings with Haitink as well.


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## Heck148

The Strauss tone poems are fun to play. Lots of stuff going on constantly, quite complex and involved orchestration...The big ones require a really fine orchestra to do justice to them....I've be lucky to have played them all, except "Alpine Symphony"...it's fun being right in the middle of it all on stage...you get to hear all the parts going on all around you.


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## Coach G

Knorf said:


> ...Karajan is at his best in Richard Strauss.


Agreed. K's "Alpine Symphony" is unsurpassed; also the first recording made for CD.


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## MatthewWeflen

Knorf said:


> One is liable to get shot in the head around here, or in the very least be accused of having no taste in music for saying so, but Karajan is at his best in Richard Strauss. Kempe is very close. I have done a huge amount of listening to Strauss far and wide, not to mention have played this music in professional orchestras, and I have concluded that Karajan and Kempe are by far the most consistently satisfying in this repertoire.
> 
> I do like the Szell/Cleveland recordings as well, and there are scattered other very good recordings, such as Steinberg/Boston for _Also sprach Zarathustra_. There are some decent recordings with Haitink as well.


Duck!

You won't catch any flack from me. I've listened to the Reiner disc mentioned above, and sampled many a performance on YouTube by many a conductor. I don't think I've heard one that would replace Karajan's Strauss.

The problem is being sure to get the right recordings. You can go a la carte, but that will add up fast.









This box set, despite the absurd cover art, has the 1980s digital recordings of Zarathustra, Don Juan, Don Quixote, Till Eulenspiegel, Salome, Ein Heldenleben, Tod und Verklarung, Alpensinfonie, and Metamorphosen. Of these, the last 4 are top notch, (and this is not to say that the others are slouches). It's also a great deal at $25.40. It does not have Sinfonia Domestica.









I think Karajan's 1970s rendition of Zarathustra, and his earlier renditions of the two Dons, Till Eulenspiegel, and Ein Heldenleben are superior to his 80's renditions. Especially Zarathustra. They can be found in this box set, which retails between 60 and 70 bucks, including a hi-res Blu-Ray. It has the great digital Alpensiofnonie as well, and contains everything Karajan did of Strauss' except for, again Sinfonia Domestica. Here's the rub - I think the 4 recordings mentioned above are better than the 70s vintage.

So here's what I would do: purchase THIS 2 disc set:









Which (despite the very stupid cover art) contains the 1980s Alpensinfonie and 1970s Zarathustra, Don juan, and Till Eulenspiegel.

Then purchase the 1980s compilation above, which has the superior 80s renditions mentioned. Yes, you'll be duplicating Alpensinfonie, but it can't be helped. And you'll get away for under 40 bucks.









Sinfonia Domestica is a "lesser" work among the cognoscenti, but I for one (a philistine who has never been invited into their ranks) find it worthwhile. Karajan recorded it for EMI, The sound is superlative. This disc can be found used in the $10 range. I'd purchase it last, if the other Strauss is to your liking.

Here are the Amazon links for my two recommended purchases:

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-sprach-Zarathustra-Alpensinfonie-Eulenspiegel/dp/B0017LYGNI/

https://www.amazon.com/Richard-Strauss-Orchestral-Works/dp/B005C8VQT4/


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## Brahmsianhorn

I originally recommended Szell's Sinfonia domestica, but just edited to Karajan EMI. There is no question Karajan was more at home in Strauss than just about any other composer, save perhaps Bruckner.

Still, it's not like no one else knew how to conduct Strauss. Kempe brought a wonderful humanity, Reiner brought excitement and immaculate execution, and Furtwangler was in my estimation the best of the bunch disregarding of sound quality. His EMI VPO disc is the best sounding of his Strauss interpretations, the Tod und Verklarung unsurpassed.

In addition to the recommendations above, I'd also make secondary recommendations of the aforementioned Szell Sinfonia domestica, Reiner Don Juan, and several worthy Karajan's: his digital Alpensinfonie, Metamorphosen, and Tod, as well as the splendid DG Originals early 70s Also sprach. Furtwangler's WWII Sinfonia domestica might be the best Strauss orchestral recording ever made, and Mengelberg's 1928 NYPO Ein Heldenleben is likewise a benchmark.

And finally, if you ever venture into vocal repertoire, these are gramophone classics:


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## Knorf

The big Karajan Strauss box with the Blu-ray includes the 1959 _Ein Heldenleben_, 1965 _Don Quixote_, 1959 Vienna _Also sprach Zarathustra_, and 1960 Vienna _Till Eulenspiegel_, _Salomé's Dance_, and _Don Juan_, as well as the 1960 _Der Rosenkavalier_ with Lisa Della Casa, again in Vienna. This is all in addition to the 1970s tone poems mentioned above, and the digital _Eine Alpensinfonie_.

All of the originally analog recordings with the Berliner Philharmoniker are on the Blu-ray Audio disc, remastered especially for that format, and have never, ever sounded better.

As far as I am aware, there is no 1970s _Ein Heldenleben_ from Karajan.

ETA: I do agree the digital _Metamophosen_ and _Tod und Verklärung_ are the best Karajan performances of those pieces. But the earlier ones aren't far off by any means. I have the digital ones on DVD.


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## MatthewWeflen

Knorf said:


> The big Karajan Strauss box with the Blu-ray includes the 1959 _Ein Heldenleben_, 1965 _Don Quixote_, 1959 Vienna _Also sprach Zarathustra_, and 1960 Vienna _Till Eulenspiegel_, _Salomé's Dance_, and _Don Juan_, as well as the 1960 _Der Rosenkavalier_ with Lisa Della Casa, again in Vienna. This is all in addition to the 1970s tone poems mentioned above, and the digital _Eine Alpensinfonie_.
> 
> All of the originally analog recordings with the Berliner Philharmoniker are on the Blu-ray Audio disc, remastered especially for that format, and have never, ever sounded better.
> 
> As far as I am aware, there is no 1970s _Ein Heldenleben_ from Karajan.
> 
> ETA: I do agree the digital _Metamophosen_ and _Tod und Verklärung_ are the best Karajan performances of those pieces. But the earlier ones aren't far off by any means. I have the digital ones on DVD.


Yeah, I own both sets because I have the big Strauss Box and the 80s box (I amended above to correct the impression that the Strauss box is all 1970s). I agree they're not far off. I think the sound on the 80s Also Sprach Zarathustra gets muddy in places. And nothing beats the 70s Einleitung movement. It's positively orgasmic (figuratively speaking).

If someone were buying a la carte discs, I would tell them to buy the Alpensinfonie, the 70s Also Sprach Zarathustra, and the 80s Metamorphosen/Tod und Verklarung. But my plan above is a better value for the dollar and includes all of these.


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## Knorf

Don't forget _Don Quixote_. No one has ever come close to Karajan and Kempe in that piece.

For Karajan, I'm not sure whether I prefer the 1965 with Fournier on DG or the 1975 with Rostropovich on EMI. Both are SO good!


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## MatthewWeflen

Knorf said:


> Don't forget _Don Quixote_. No one has ever come close to Karajan and Kempe in that piece.
> 
> For Karajan, I'm not sure whether I prefer the 1965 with Fournier on DG or the 1975 with Rostropovich on EMI. Both are SO good!


I'm listening to the 96k/24b 1965 DG recording presently on my good headphones. It is indeed very good. In its remastered form, it does surpass the 80s recording - but that one is no slouch, either. It has terrific sound, and the performance is certainly top shelf.


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## gvn

It's also worth remembering that there are recorded performances of Strauss himself conducting nearly all his tone poems between the late 1920s and the late 1940s. Of course the sound quality is limited (though he was generally given the best possible resources available at the time), but his conducting is highly expressive and not at all amateurish. He conducted his own music in a relatively light, flowing style (closer to Böhm or Kempe than Karajan--I mean this simply as a descriptive comment, not a judgmental one: I don't intend to imply that either sort of conducting is "better" than the other).


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## Simplicissimus

For me, for Strauss’s tone poems it’s Reiner/CSO all the way through. There are nostalgic, sentimental, and chauvinistic factors at play as well as musical, so my preference might not be interesting.

Nobody has mentioned Wolfgang Sawallisch. The only recordings of Strauss’s operas I have in my CD collection are conducted by Sawallisch, and it seems to be that he is known as a major Strauss interpreter. There aren’t a ton of recordings of Die Frau ohne Schatten and the others out there anyway. Before I buy his few recordings of the tone poems (I’m thinking of his work with the Philadelphia Orchestra), I’m wondering if anyone has an opinion. Or perhaps I can just augment my CD collection with HvK. However, I already listen to HvK’s Strauss on my streaming service whereas Sawallisch is not on there.


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## wkasimer

mbhaub said:


> For my taste, Strauss demands extremely fine recording quality. The enormous changes in dynamics cannot ever be fully captured by any known recording method, but the wider the dynamic range, the better. And the recordings need clarity, which isn't easy either given the gigantic orchestras he scored for. For my ears, that rules out the early releases and the Brilliant re-release of Kempe, no matter how well conducted and played - and they've hardly been done better. But then Warner now has a low-priced 9-cd set that has all of Strauss' orchestral music. Made from rediscovered master tapes and this is the Strauss bargain of the century! Even if you don't like all of it (I don't), the price, sound, playing make it unbeatable.


I am almost always disappointed by the sonics of reissues, which rarely show significant improvement, and in some cases (some of BMG's Master Series, most notably) actually sound worse. But the Kempe set is an exception - I had the old generic green box set...









...and then bought this one...









...and the difference was stunning. These superior transfers have been reissued yet again in this form:


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## Heck148

seitzpf said:


> For me, for Strauss's tone poems it's Reiner/CSO all the way through. There are nostalgic, sentimental, and chauvinistic factors at play as well as musical, so my preference might not be interesting.


Don't forget, Reiner made some great Strauss recordings with other orchestras as well -

Till Eulenspiegel/Tod & Verklarung - with ViennaPO in 1956...excellent sound [I think these were recorded by Decca, but distributed by RCA, some licensing agreement in place] - tne"Till" recording was made on a single "take" - straight thru, no stops...
He recorded the same pairing in 1950 with RCASO [MetOpera + NY freelancers] - this one is perhaps even better than his VPO effort...both works given superior readings...
Reiner recorded "Till" at least 3 times - with RCASO, VPO, and then live with CSO from 1958....the last is my favorite - a live performance - the orchestra plays with free-wheeling confidence and bravura - I've never heard such a wonderful depiction of the impertinent, irreverant Till!!


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## wkasimer

Heck148 said:


> Don't forget, Reiner made some great Strauss recordings with other orchestras as well -
> 
> Till Eulenspiegel/Tod & Verklarung - with ViennaPO in 1956...excellent sound [I think these were recorded by Decca, but distributed by RCA, some licensing agreement in place] - tne"Till" recording was made on a single "take" - straight thru, no stops...
> He recorded the same pairing in 1950 with RCASO [MetOpera + NY freelancers] - this one is perhaps even better than his VPO effort...both works given superior readings...
> Reiner recorded "Till" at least 3 times - with RCASO, VPO, and then live with CSO from 1958....the last is my favorite - a live performance - the orchestra plays with free-wheeling confidence and bravura - I've never heard such a wonderful depiction of the impertinent, irreverant Till!!


He also made recording of Strauss (Heldenleben, Don Juan, Don Quixote) with the Pittsburgh SO during the 40's:


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## Knorf

Dammit, I have the green Kempe Strauss box on EMI. You're saying the Warner reissues are that much better? 

That figures. Maybe I can find one cheap somewhere.


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## Heck148

wkasimer said:


> He also made recording of Strauss (Heldenleben, Don Juan, Don Quixote) with the Pittsburgh SO during the 40's:
> 
> View attachment 134759


Yes, indeed, I forgot to mention those...thanx


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## Allegro Con Brio

I've listened to bits and pieces of the green EMI Kempe set from streaming and I thought the sound was ear-poppingly good, like standing right in the middle of the orchestra; some of the best sound I've ever heard. Either I don't have good audiophile ears or I like sound that would ordinarily be considered "unnatural." Either way it's amazing! The Dresden sound is unmistakable - even the timpani sound different!


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## Knorf

And yes, hearing Strauss conduct his own music is definitely worthwhile. Composers are not necessarily the best interpreters of their own music, which seems weird but it's true. But you always learn something.

Reiner in Strauss for me is a bit like casting Brian Blessed as Hamlet. But I know a lot of people like it, so I'll probably revisit Reiner's Strauss sometime.


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## Manxfeeder

Knorf said:


> Dammit, I have the green Kempe Strauss box on EMI. You're saying the Warner reissues are that much better?
> 
> That figures. Maybe I can find one cheap somewhere.


If you do find one, let me know. I'd like to update mine but only if it's not that expensive (I have the Brilliant set).


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## Sad Al

I think Mengelberg recorded Ein Heldenleben twice and I am happy with the second one.


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## Knorf

Manxfeeder said:


> If you do find one, let me know. I'd like to update mine but only if it's not that expensive (I have the Brilliant set).


I never actually had a problem with the recorded sound of Kempe and Dresden in the green EMI box. But if it's so much better in the remastered version... ugh.

Presto Classical has the remastered Warner box for $33 USD.


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## Manxfeeder

Knorf said:


> I never actually had a problem with the recorded sound of Kempe and Dresden in the green EMI box. But if it's so much better in the remastered version... ugh.
> 
> Presto Classical has the remastered Warner box for $33 USD.


Thanks. I'm like you; I have no problem with the one I have. I've heard others say that the difference isn't that noticeable, but then again, I don't have a high-end sound system. So I'm not desperate; I'm willing to wait for an offering that is really cheap. I have a notification set up on Camelcamel in case something comes up.


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## Orfeo

The Neemi Jarvi series under Chandos is very solid, with terrific responses by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (RSNO). This particular album is especially enjoyable.










*Works:
*

Also sprach Zarathustra
Don Quixote
Macbeth
Symphonia Domestica
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> I never actually had a problem with the recorded sound of Kempe and Dresden in the green EMI box.


Neither did I, until I heard the newer issue.


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## flamencosketches

I'm definitely going to get that Kempe/Dresden box, the newest incarnation, but man, why is it so difficult to search for? I can never find the right one. I only see it on Presto and I know other retailers must have it.


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## Knorf

It looks to be a bit cheaper at jpc.de: €24.99, about $27 USD, and they charge less for shipping.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/saemtliche-orchesterwerke/hnum/8936984


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## Brahmsianhorn

Man, you Karajan fanboys are in my head now! :lol:

I originally recommended the Szell Sinfonia domestica, but then edited and switched to Karajan out of peer pressure. I mean, no one wants to be labeled a Karajan hater, right? Well, I listened today to Szell, Karajan, and Furtwangler back-to-back, and it turns out my first instinct of recommending Szell was correct (though too late to edit now).

I switched it to Karajan because he seems like more of a Strauss conductor than Szell, but in truth when I listened today I was reacquainted with the excitement of the Szell recording and enjoyed it much more. It is true that Karajan has more of a sensual Straussian orchestral sound, but - stop me if you've heard this before - Karajan plays it safe while Szell swings for the fences. And that is a critical difference in a work like this. Karajan is always a safe choice, but he has a corporate mindset of never taking too big a risk. Szell goes for it all and creates a reading with a real impact, even if at times the orchestral sound is not sumptuously beautiful, particularly in slower passages.

For the best of both worlds we have Furtwangler, who I will say again produced a recording during WWII that rivals any Strauss tone poem on disc. The transfer I heard today was the newest one from the WWII radio box set. Much better than the DG, which itself still isn't terrible for the time period. But the performance is unforgettable.


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## Knorf

I haven't seen any Karajan fanboys on this forum, only some posters with the taste and musical intelligence to recognize when he does things well.

"Corporate mindset" is utter nonsense, and repeating it convinces no one. Karajan was undoubtedly an individual, and did things as he wished. That is the antithesis of "corporate."


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> I haven't seen any Karajan fanboys on this forum, only some posters with the taste and musical intelligence to recognize when he does things well.
> 
> "Corporate mindset" is utter nonsense, and repeating it convinces no one. Karajan was undoubtedly an individual, and did things as he wished. That is the antithesis of "corporate."


Doing things as you wish does not negate having a corporate mindset. The musicians who worked with him stated directly that he placed a priority on branding and marketing.


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## Knorf

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Doing things as you wish does not negate having a corporate mindset. The musicians who worked with him stated directly that he placed a priority on branding and marketing.


Apparently you don't know what "corporate" means.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> Apparently you don't know what "corporate" means.


I think of risk-aversion and a certain preoccupation with how things will sell on the mass market.

Oh, and incidentally, I alluded to "peer pressure" from Karajan fanboys. Your response was a perfect example:

"I haven't seen any Karajan fanboys on this forum, only some posters with the taste and musical intelligence to recognize when he does things well."

So if I don't think Karajan represents a top choice I lack taste and musical intelligence?


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## Knorf

Why don't you take this to the "What's wrong with Karajan" thread?



Brahmsianhorn said:


> So if I don't think Karajan represents a top choice I lack taste and musical intelligence?


No. I did not say that.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> Why don't you take this to the "What's wrong with Karajan" thread?
> 
> No. I did not say that.


It's a Strauss thread, and I made a comparison. I think I'll try Alpensinfonie tomorrow.


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## Simplicissimus

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Man, you Karajan fanboys are in my head now! :lol:
> 
> I originally recommended the Szell Sinfonia domestica, but then edited and switched to Karajan out of peer pressure. I mean, no one wants to be labeled a Karajan hater, right? Well, I listened today to Szell, Karajan, and Furtwangler back-to-back, and it turns out my first instinct of recommending Szell was correct (though too late to edit now).
> 
> I switched it to Karajan because he seems like more of a Strauss conductor than Szell, but in truth when I listened today I was reacquainted with the excitement of the Szell recording and enjoyed it much more. It is true that Karajan has more of a sensual Straussian orchestral sound, but - stop me if you've heard this before - Karajan plays it safe while Szell swings for the fences. And that is a critical difference in a work like this. Karajan is always a safe choice, but he has a corporate mindset of never taking too big a risk. Szell goes for it all and creates a reading with a real impact, even if at times the orchestral sound is not sumptuously beautiful, particularly in slower passages.
> 
> For the best of both worlds we have Furtwangler, who I will say again produced a recording during WWII that rivals any Strauss tone poem on disc. The transfer I heard today was the newest one from the WWII radio box set. Much better than the DG, which itself still isn't terrible for the time period. But the performance is unforgettable.


If all three of those Sinfonia domestica recordings are better than Reiner/CSO 1956 Living Stereo, well, they must be awfully good. I have the Reiner paired with Le bourgois gentilhomme Suite Op. 60 on an SACD disc and it's one of my favorites. I really have to try the Szell, I am usually very happy with his readings, the playing, and the sound quality of recordings from that time. It be really nice to get an SACD. ,


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## Brahmsianhorn

seitzpf said:


> If all three of those Sinfonia domestica recordings are better than Reiner/CSO 1956 Living Stereo, well, they must be awfully good. I have the Reiner paired with Le bourgois gentilhomme Suite Op. 60 on an SACD disc and it's one of my favorites. I really have to try the Szell, I am usually very happy with his readings, the playing, and the sound quality of recordings from that time. It be really nice to get an SACD. ,


I am not a big Szell fan, and it's not a perfect reading by any measure, but it certainly is exciting.


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## Heck148

seitzpf said:


> If all three of those Sinfonia domestica recordings are better than Reiner/CSO 1956 Living Stereo, well, they must be awfully good. I have the Reiner paired with Le bourgois gentilhomme Suite Op. 60 on an SACD disc and it's one of my favorites. I really have to try the Szell, I am usually very happy with his readings, the playing, and the sound quality of recordings from that time. It be really nice to get an SACD. ,


Yup, The Reiner is my favorite, very exciting..Szell is very good, too...Mehta/LAPO is/was quite a sound spectacular, with the predictable amount of spot-miking, knob-twiddling that was so commonplace at the time in LA..
The best Sinf Domestica I've ever heard is a broadcast performance with Mehta/CSO from 12/95...unbelievable...startling virtuosity...these guys just cruise thru it like it's easy (it isn't)


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## Heck148

Brahmsianhorn said:


> .... Karajan plays it safe [......]Karajan is always a safe choice, but he has a corporate mindset of never taking too big a risk.....


That sums it up pretty well.
Those that are not attracted to HvK will usually cite that, or something close to it, as the reason....for those who adore him, it is not an issue for them...


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## Brahmsianhorn

I’ll listen to the Reiner Sinfonia domestica. I’ve heard some good things about Mehta/LAPO as well.


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## adriesba

Knorf said:


> Why don't you take this to the "What's wrong with Karajan" thread?


I guess I stirred up some trouble with that thread. Everyone is debating Karajan now! :lol:


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## MatthewWeflen

adriesba said:


> I guess I stirred up some trouble with that thread. Everyone is debating Karajan now! :lol:


I wouldn't sweat it. By virtue of sheer ubiquity, Karajan is going to keep turning up in most discussions of popular repertory. This will be to the chagrin of some, the delight of others, and the indifference of most.


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## adriesba

MatthewWeflen said:


> I wouldn't sweat it. By virtue of sheer ubiquity, Karajan is going to keep turning up in most discussions of popular repertory. This will be to the chagrin of some, the delight of others, and the indifference of most.


I find it all rather humorous actually! :lol:
Finally I feel like I'm finally starting to see people recommend Karajan recordings!


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## Eclectic Al

It’s funny. In the “What’s wrong with Karajan” thread I made a post which mentioned Strauss on the basis that he was a composer where there seemed to be unanimity that Karajan had made excellent recordings. I then trot over to this Strauss thread and find that the Karajan-is-bad debate has spread here. Thinking about this has prompted me to suggest a little experiment.
In any thread about favourite performances of an orchestral piece say you like a Karajan version (- after all, there probably is one or more): that’s the blue touch paper lit. Wait. Responses will arrive criticising it (which is fine), but check them for the implication that by liking the Karajan you are showing a deficiency in your appreciation of music generally. Usually this will relate to the claim that those with a different preference have an appreciation of interpretations which probe deeper by being less safe or smoothed, and thus that by implication your liking for Karajan indicates that you only have a superficial appreciation of music because you don’t understand the merit of a more ambitious interpretation. There may also be a claim that you have fallen victim to a corporate marketing machine, rather than gone a better, more individual way.
As a control, repeat the exercise but with Solti (– choose your own control conductor). Responses may then express a preference for Bernstein (perhaps) because they find the Solti too driven or inflexible and the Bernstein more emotionally satisfying. However, check if the response suggests that your preference indicates that you are superficial in your appreciation of music generally.
Good game?


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## Eclectic Al

It's a bit like there's a Karajona virus (Kara-vid 19) spreading inexorably across threads.


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## adriesba

Eclectic Al said:


> It's a bit like there's a Karajona virus (Kara-vid 19) spreading inexorably across threads.


That's what I'm noticing. :lol:


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## adriesba

Eclectic Al said:


> It's funny. In the "What's wrong with Karajan" thread I made a post which mentioned Strauss on the basis that he was a composer where there seemed to be unanimity that Karajan had made excellent recordings. I then trot over to this Strauss thread and find that the Karajan-is-bad debate has spread here. Thinking about this has prompted me to suggest a little experiment.
> In any thread about favourite performances of an orchestral piece say you like a Karajan version (- after all, there probably is one or more): that's the blue touch paper lit. Wait. Responses will arrive criticising it (which is fine), but check them for the implication that by liking the Karajan you are showing a deficiency in your appreciation of music generally. Usually this will relate to the claim that those with a different preference have an appreciation of interpretations which probe deeper by being less safe or smoothed, and thus that by implication your liking for Karajan indicates that you only have a superficial appreciation of music because you don't understand the merit of a more ambitious interpretation. There may also be a claim that you have fallen victim to a corporate marketing machine, rather than gone a better, more individual way.
> As a control, repeat the exercise but with Solti (- choose your own control conductor). Responses may then express a preference for Bernstein (perhaps) because they find the Solti too driven or inflexible and the Bernstein more emotionally satisfying. However, check if the response suggests that your preference indicates that you are superficial in your appreciation of music generally.
> Good game?


So if I say I like a Karajan peformance, some will say I'm being too safe, but if I like Solti or someone else they might say I'm going too extreme. What if I say I like a Bernstein performance?


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## Eclectic Al

Sucked in by an egotist. However, only in the case of Karajan will your general attitude to music be in question.


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## Simplicissimus

Heck148 said:


> Yup, The Reiner is my favorite, very exciting..Szell is very good, too...Mehta/LAPO is/was quite a sound spectacular, with the predictable amount of spot-miking, knob-twiddling that was so commonplace at the time in LA..
> The best Sinf Domestica I've ever heard is a broadcast performance with Mehta/CSO from 12/95...unbelievable...startling virtuosity...these guys just cruise thru it like it's easy (it isn't)


That's interesting about Mehta/LAPO with respect to this work. I attended quite a few concerts at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in the 1974-1978 time frame and had wonderful musical experiences in every respect, so I would be inclined to collect Mehta/LAPO recordings if it were not for the sound engineering shenanigans. I haven't revisited the recordings for a while, so here I go now with the Sinfonia domestica!


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## Rogerx

adriesba said:


> So if I say I like a Karajan peformance, some will say I'm being too safe, but if I like Solti or someone else they might say I'm going too extreme. What if I say I like a Bernstein performance?


That's just freedom of speech, if someone listen is a whole different question.
Just like what you like, pick things up no and then and you'll get there, you are eager enough. :cheers:


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## Brahmsianhorn

Eclectic Al said:


> It's funny. In the "What's wrong with Karajan" thread I made a post which mentioned Strauss on the basis that he was a composer where there seemed to be unanimity that Karajan had made excellent recordings. I then trot over to this Strauss thread and find that the Karajan-is-bad debate has spread here. Thinking about this has prompted me to suggest a little experiment.
> In any thread about favourite performances of an orchestral piece say you like a Karajan version (- after all, there probably is one or more): that's the blue touch paper lit. Wait. Responses will arrive criticising it (which is fine), but check them for the implication that by liking the Karajan you are showing a deficiency in your appreciation of music generally. Usually this will relate to the claim that those with a different preference have an appreciation of interpretations which probe deeper by being less safe or smoothed, and thus that by implication your liking for Karajan indicates that you only have a superficial appreciation of music because you don't understand the merit of a more ambitious interpretation. There may also be a claim that you have fallen victim to a corporate marketing machine, rather than gone a better, more individual way.
> As a control, repeat the exercise but with Solti (- choose your own control conductor). Responses may then express a preference for Bernstein (perhaps) because they find the Solti too driven or inflexible and the Bernstein more emotionally satisfying. However, check if the response suggests that your preference indicates that you are superficial in your appreciation of music generally.
> Good game?


So I cannot listen to Karajan side by side other recordings and then state an opinion without being attacked for it? This is what I'm talking about. And it's not like I hated the Karajan. I simply think others are better. But that's heresy to some.


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## Heck148

seitzpf said:


> That's interesting about Mehta/LAPO with respect to this work. I attended quite a few concerts at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in the 1974-1978 time frame and had wonderful musical experiences in every respect, so I would be inclined to collect Mehta/LAPO recordings if it were not for the sound engineering shenanigans. I haven't revisited the recordings for a while, so here I go now with the Sinfonia domestica!


LAPO is a great orchestra, and was such in the 60s...the recordings are excellent, even if "doctored" a bit...Bruno Walter's late recordings with ColumbiaSO were essentially LAPO recordings


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## Eclectic Al

Best for Metamorphosen anyone? It's a piece that gets me every time.


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## wkasimer

Eclectic Al said:


> Best for Metamorphosen anyone? It's a piece that gets me every time.


Klemperer/Philharmonia, Levine/Berlin PO. These are both on the slow side, which is how I like it.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Eclectic Al said:


> Best for Metamorphosen anyone? It's a piece that gets me every time.


Four standouts for me are Kempe, Karajan (80s digital), Barbirolli, and Furtwängler if you can handle murkier 1947 sound.


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## Eclectic Al

Thanks. I will have a listen, especially Kempe. After all, Karajan got the audience to stand for a minute's tribute to Kempe at a concert on the day Kempe died, so he must have been good. (It's a joke!!  )


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## Knorf

Brahmsianhorn said:


> So I cannot listen to Karajan side by side other recordings and then state an opinion without being attacked for it? This is what I'm talking about. And it's not like I hated the Karajan. I simply think others are better. But that's heresy to some.


This is a false assessment of how this went. You are one of the worst for insinuating that someone who prefers Karajan has thereby demonstrated an inferior taste for supposedly safe and "corporate" music making.

I personally couldn't care less if you think Reiner is all that in Strauss. It tells me you and I are looking at different understandings of that repertoire, yours no more invalid than mine. But you insultingly mischaracterize mine.


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## Knorf

Eclectic Al said:


> Thanks. I will have a listen, especially Kempe. After all, Karajan got the audience to stand for a minute's tribute to Kempe at a concert on the day Kempe died, so he must have been good. (It's a joke!!  )


Kempe is consistently very, very good in Strauss. I doubt you'd be disappointed.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> This is a false assessment of how this went. You are one of the worst for insinuating that someone who prefers Karajan has thereby demonstrated an inferior taste for supposedly safe and "corporate" music making.
> 
> I personally couldn't care less if you think Reiner is all that in Strauss. It tells me you and I are looking at different understandings of that repertoire, yours no more invalid than mine. But you insultingly mischaracterize mine.


Oh, c'mon now!!!! I cannot critique a conductor without being accused of insulting his admirers??? That is below the belt and borders on internet bullying. It's none of my business what someone prefers and it is completely unfair to say that anything I say about Conductor X thereby applies to anyone who might like Conductor X. This is utter ubsurdity. I can express any opinion on music and musicians that I like!!!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Just listened to three Alpinesinfonien this morning.

The Kempe is glorious, fully deserving of its reputation. I have the original EMI version I pictured on page 1, and the sound was no problem for me. Kempe understands the work and is fully engrossing.

Karajan has the advantage of digital sound, and it is an extremely clear recording with thrilling climaxes. It is a bit stale, however, in both sound and interpretation compared to Kempe. Still a beautiful recording and worthy alternative. It is one of Karajan's more concentrated performances on disc, and I can see how it would be favored by his admirers.

The big surprise is Mehta/LAPO. It takes a while to get going, but is quite a moving performance. I still prefer Kempe, but choice between this one and Karajan is pretty even IMO. The LAPO sound is more lush compared to Karajan/BPO.


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## Brahmsian Colors

After paring down my record collection over the past several years, i am left with three preferred versions in each of my two favorite Richard Strauss compositions---Ein Heldenleben and Also Sprach Zarathustra:

Reiner/Chicago Symphony, Mehta/Los Angeles Philharmonic and Haitink/Amsterdam Concertgebouw


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## Enthusiast

Eclectic Al said:


> Best for Metamorphosen anyone? It's a piece that gets me every time.


A good pair - Barbirolli and Klemperer - each very distinctive and different. Either makes a great choice but together is even better.


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## Eclectic Al

Picking up on Haitink, is it fair to say that Haitink is underrated for a conductor of his stature? My feeling is that he is one who is often "damned with faint praise". I like conductors who create a sense of order, especially in the more emotive works, and so I warm to Haitink in general.


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## Knorf

Eclectic Al said:


> Picking up on Haitink, is it fair to say that Haitink is underrated for a conductor of his stature? My feeling is that he is one who is often "damned with faint praise". I like conductors who create a sense of order, especially in the more emotive works, and so I warm to Haitink in general.


I quite like Haitink's _Ein Heldenleben_ on the CSO Resound label.

But I do agree he seems a bit underrated overall, despite a huge career of excellent performances in a wide repertoire.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Eclectic Al said:


> Picking up on Haitink, is it fair to say that Haitink is underrated for a conductor of his stature? My feeling is that he is one who is often "damned with faint praise". I like conductors who create a sense of order, especially in the more emotive works, and so I warm to Haitink in general.


Yes. Though I've only occasionally wished for a greater degree of intensity in some of his music making, I feel Haitink has long demonstrated an ability to superbly delineate a work's architectural profile, thereby enhancing considerably the sense of listening enjoyment. I consider him one of the finest all around conductors ever recorded. Sadly, I've never enjoyed the privilege of seeing and hearing him perform live with the Amsterdam Concertgebouw.


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## Brahmsianhorn

So I decided to pit two classics against each other head-to-head in a gladiator battle this afternoon, and there was a clear winner.

First, a caveat. I recommended the Reiner Also sprach Zarathustra as top choice due in part at least to the coupled Ein Heldenleben, which I always frankly enjoyed more. 

Which leads me to my pitting of Reiner's '54 Also sprach against Karajan's '74. I have to say Karajan was the clear winner IMO. More thrilling and involving throughout. This could arguably be his greatest recording in fact, up there with the live '82 Mahler 9th and '88 Bruckner 8th. Reiner is spectacular, but I have never found it to be illuminating. It has never made me love the score. Karajan does. I think this is a case where Karajan's forest is more interesting to me than Reiner's trees.

Of course there are other great Also sprach's: Koussevitzky, Strauss himself, Krauss, Kempe...but these two are the heavyweights for this work in recording history. (I do however need to sample Reiner '62)

I feel inspired now to compare Heldenlebens. So many celebrated versions: both Mengelbergs, Reiner, Beecham, Kempe, Barbirolli, Karajan '59 and '74...


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## flamencosketches

Brahmsianhorn said:


> So I decided to pit two classics against each other head-to-head in a gladiator battle this afternoon, and there was a clear winner.
> 
> First, a caveat. I recommended the Reiner Also sprach Zarathustra as top choice in part at least to the coupled Ein Heldenleben, which I always frankly enjoyed more.
> 
> Which leads me to my pitting of Reiner's '54 Also sprach against Karajan's '74. I have to say Karajan was the clear winner IMO. More thrilling and involving throughout. This could arguably be his greatest recording in fact, up there with the live '82 Mahler 9th and '88 Bruckner 8th. Reiner is spectacular, but I have never found it to be illuminating. It has never made me love the score. Karajan does. I think this is a case where Karajan's forest is more interesting to me than Reiner's trees.
> 
> Of course there are other great Also sprach's: Koussevitzky, Strauss himself, Krauss, Kempe...but these two are the heavyweights for this work in recording history. (I do however need to sample Reiner '62)
> 
> I feel inspired now to compare Heldenlebens. So many celebrated versions: both Mengelbergs, Reiner, Beecham, Kempe, Barbirolli, Karajan '59 and '74...


This is good to hear, as I have (& love) the Reiner Also Sprach from '54, and just ordered the Karajan '74 (& am excited to hear it). Especially coming from a Karajan-hater like yourself.


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## Knorf

_Ein Heldenleben_ has done very well in recordings. When I did my great search for the "best" recording (a futile task) those that made it to the end for me were Karajan '59, Reiner, and Kempe. Between those three is a pretty tough call, frankly, but for me it was Karajan '59. It does occur to me that I should revisit the Reiner at some point, yet another on a long list. I own the Kempe in the green EMI box and listen to it nearly as often as the Karajan.

The '85 Karajan _Ein Heldenleben_ shouldn't be dismissed outright, although I suspect few would rate it above the '59 or '74 from Karajan, or Kempe, or Reiner. But it has perhaps the deepest feeling of all in the "works of peace" section, so beautiful. It's incredible. And in the "Karajan Gold" edition, it has greatly improved sound as well as the superb digital _Tod und Verklärung_.


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## Heck148

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Which leads me to my pitting of Reiner's '54 Also sprach against Karajan's '74......Reiner is spectacular, but I have never found it to be illuminating......(I do however need to sample Reiner '62)


The '62 Reiner is, to me, clearly better than '54, which is quite excellent...the recorded sound alone is much better on the later one, plus the orchestra plays better in '62.


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## Brahmsianhorn

flamencosketches said:


> This is good to hear, as I have (& love) the Reiner Also Sprach from '54, and just ordered the Karajan '74 (& am excited to hear it). Especially coming from a Karajan-hater like yourself.


Hey, I'm on the record as liking Karajan's Rite of spring! (the 70s version, maybe I just prefer 70s Karajan)


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## Coach G

Brahmsian Colors said:


> Yes. Though I've only occasionally wished for a greater degree of intensity in some of [Haitink's] music making...


Haitink can be relied upon to deliver a quality recording almost every time, but I've avoided his output mainly because it seems to need some flavor. Karajan or Bernstein may have a greater miss-to-hit ratio than Haitink, but Karajan or Bernstein also seem to really knock it out of the park when they get it right.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> _Ein Heldenleben_ has done very well in recordings. When I did my great search for the "best" recording (a futile task) those that made it to the end for me were Karajan '59, Reiner, and Kempe. Between those three is a pretty tough call, frankly, but for me it was Karajan '59. It does occur to me that I should revisit the Reiner at some point, yet another on a long list. I own the Kempe in the green EMI box and listen to it nearly as often as the Karajan.
> 
> The '85 Karajan _Ein Heldenleben_ shouldn't be dismissed outright, although I suspect few would rate it above the '59 or '74 from Karajan, or Kempe, or Reiner. But it has perhaps the deepest feeling of all in the "works of peace" section, so beautiful. It's incredible. And in the "Karajan Gold" edition, it has greatly improved sound as well as the superb digital _Tod und Verklärung_.


And there's also a Monteux as well as even a Toscanini I'd like to explore.

So I just continued the same Karajan disc to sample the Till Eulenspiegel. I'd always remembered it as being symphonically impressive but a bit heavy, and memory served me right. It makes an impression, but just feels a bit lead-footed.

I decided to turn then to Furtwängler EMI and I was shocked not only at how much more masterly and assured it is as a performance, but how well it stacks up sonically. This is 1954 studio mono, so not nearly as much a drop off as you'd expect. But what a knockout performance! So much life, spontaneity and just overall creative abundance. It's like the old master arriving and saying, "Move over kid, let me show you how this is done." I already know the Don Juan and Tod und Verklarung are also fantastic, so I feel very confident in saying this is a must-buy no matter what other recordings you have.

So far on my listening excursion I've identified the following timeless classics:

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan '74
Sinfonia domestica - Furtwängler (Szell a good modern alternative)
Till Eulenspiegel - Furtwängler '54 EMI (I know his '43 version is even better, but it cannot compete sonically with the EMI)


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## Allegro Con Brio

This thread has got me into a Strauss mood too. I totally agree on the authority of the Kempe Alpine Symphony and the '74 Karajan Zarathustra; both tremendous readings that never lose my attention for an instant. I think that a trap conductors can fall into with Strauss is just turning them into orchestral showpieces where they play as loudly and as virtuosically as possible, raising a big racket but failing to make sense of the sprawling narrative (that's what I heard when I listened to Reiner's '62 Zarathustra yesterday). Karajan can do this sometimes too but I think he's better at making sense of the structure. Best of all (for me) is Kempe, who has that sumptuous, splendid orchestral sound but infuses it with a lot of warmth and poetry. I'll have to do some more listening tomorrow and check out those Furtwangler recordings, even though the ones he recorded are not really my favorite Strauss works.


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## Heck148

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ..... I think that a trap conductors can fall into with Strauss is just turning them into orchestral showpieces where they play as loudly and as virtuosically as possible, raising a big racket but failing to make sense of the sprawling narrative (that's what I heard when I listened to Reiner's '62 Zarathustra yesterday).


Whoa!! wait a second - Strauss wanted it "big!! he wrote it big, he liked it big. Strauss was a great orchestrator, he knew what he wanted. If he had lived half a century later, he would have been writing awesome film scores for those huge biblical epic movies of the 50s, in all their glory...He would have loved it. Can you imagine??

The trap conductors fall into is NOT making enough of the big moments, thereby reducing the contrast between the big climax, loud sections, and the softer, quieter passages in between, that build to the powerful crescendi...that's why I like Reiner so much in Richard Straus, unparalleled in my view...he really builds the contrasts, makes the contrasts to such great effect. Wonderfully clear, dolce, soft dynamics, and shatteringly loud climaxes....Remember - Reiner worked closely with Strauss when he was in Dresden, before he came to the US in 1922. He knew Strauss well, knew what he wanted....

so many examples I could cite - but here's one - 
Death and Transfiguration - [Reiner recorded it twice, with RCASO, and VPO....both top notch, RCASO is esp effective] - lots of "scene" changes - quiet, soft, waiting, anticipation of the failing victim; interspersed with the attacks of death that weaken the victim with each onslaught....with Reiner, Death is a savage beast, a vicious demon that attacks its victim with unrelenting violence....then, respite, calm, the attack is over, the patient rests...until the next vicious, wild onslaught....until Death claims its victim....then the transfiguration, again, starts very softly, in the bass [a Strauss favorite]- building slowly to the shattering climax at the conclusion of the piece...as with all Strauss, there are some huge orchestral sonorities, waves of sound, as Strauss employs the full power of the modern symphony orchestra...Reiner sorts it all out, you hear it all even at maximum sound level [these guys are blowing their brains out!! but it's clear!!], which takes some doing....very few conductors had that ability - Toscanini, Solti maybe.....
So, yes, give me the huge contrasts - swing for the fences....no safe, "middle of the road" stuff for me....I know others want the latter, but not me.

Note - don't be fooled by Strauss' cryptic quotes regarding orchestra volume "Never encourage the brass..", "If you can hear the horns...." etc, etc....Strauss was probably putting us on a bit, as he was wont to do... during a rehearsal of Elektra - the great riotous cacaphony was nearly drowning out the contralto, Mme Schumann-Heink - 
Strauss admonished the orchestra - _"Louder! I can still hear Madame Schumann-Heink!"_:devil:


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## Brahmsianhorn

Just finished Reiner Also sprach ‘62. Not as exciting as ‘54 but holds together better. Kept my interest throughout, particularly the closing pages. As beautifully detailed a recording as you can imagine. Reminds me of his Brahms 4th from around the same time.

Karajan ‘74 is the champ, but both Reiners are worth keeping.

Might check out Kempe tomorrow. I remember it as underpowered but very affectionate.


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## Heck148

I just listened to Karajan '73-'74 ASZ....It's good, certainly a worthy effort...to me, it bogs down in the slow, quiet sections in the first half of the piece, sort of lost me..maybe a bit too relaxed. climaxes are good, I like more power from brass, and a lot more horns, but this one is well played...orchestra sonority is rather string heavy, which obscures some detail....
I'll stick with Reiner62, slightly over Solti...but the Karajan is certainly a good version...I need to re-listen to Mehta/LAPO...it's been awhile, forgot I owned it...


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## mahlernerd

This thread has given me so many great ideas. Are there any more modern recordings, say, 1990 and beyond that really stand out for you?


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## Knorf

mahlernerd said:


> This thread has given me so many great ideas. Are there any more modern recordings, say, 1990 and beyond that really stand out for you?


I was just about to raise the same question! A ton of Strauss has appeared in the past 20 years, and I've heard next to none of it. I am not one to support the canard that there are no great recent recordings, because "the giants of the past are dead and all we have are dwarfs." That's total rubbish. But who are they for Strauss, the "dwarfs" of today who are the next generation's "giants"?

I do very much like Haitink's _Ein Heldenleben_ with the Chicago Symphony, on their own label, CSO Resound. He also did an excellent _Eine Alpensinfonie_ with the LSO on the LSO Live label. Otherwise my knowledge of recent Strauss recordings is nil, except for having read reviews.

There's a Nelsons _Also sprach Zarathustra _that got high reviews, for instance. But I haven't heard it. Also a much-praised Barenboim _Ein Heldenleben_ with Dresden. Same thing: me no hear.

I need several more lifetimes.


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## MatthewWeflen

Dudamel's 2012 concert of Also Sprach Zarathustra with the BPO is pretty good. You can watch it on the Digital Concert Hall for free presently.

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concert/2885#


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## Josquin13

To my mind, it's not so much about the conductor in the music of Strauss, as it is the orchestra and orchestral sound. While I agree that Herbert von Karajan was arguably at his best in Strauss as a conductor, he cultivated an orchestral sound in Berlin that isn't remotely similar to that of the Staatskapelle Dresden, an orchestra that Strauss conducted and was closely linked to for over 60 years. Indeed, the Staatskapelle premiered 9 of Strauss's operas, including Der Rosenkavalier, Salome, & Elektra, and Strauss dedicated his Alpine Symphony to them, which shows how special and unique their relationship was. (Can anyone name another work by an important composer that was dedicated specifically to a world famous orchestra? other than the Staatskapelle?) Therefore, as good as Karajan's recording of the Alpine Symphony may be, for instance, I'd much rather listen to the orchestra that Strauss wrote this work for and whose orchestral sound he specifically had in mind.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying Karajan's Strauss, but before you do so, I'd suggest that you first hear for yourself and at least understand and recognize how different the music of Strauss sounds when it is played by the Staatskapelle Dresden rather than the Berlin Philharmonic. The orchestras have two different sounds, and I'd argue that the Berlin sound is less well suited to the densely orchestrated scores of Strauss (and I'm talking about the Berlin Philharmonic as it was under Karajan, & not Sir Simon Rattle, who changed the "Karajan sound" in Berlin, which Abbado had partly kept intact).

Under Karajan, the strings of Berlin Philharmonic were unusually lush, soft edged, velvety thick, and in certain music they could be seductively beautiful. But this heavier, more homogenous string sound could also dominate other parts of the orchestra, to the extent that the listener doesn't always hear all the many orchestral details (and musical lines) clearly in more densely orchestrated scores, such as those by Strauss. (For instance, I enjoy Karajan's digital recording of the Metamorphosen, but it doesn't sound like there are only 23 strings playing, which is what Strauss asks for, and that's solely a work for strings...) While the Staatskapelle Dresden produces clearer musical lines and more translucent orchestral textures, and as a result they are more nimble and lithe, which is particularly important in the music of Strauss, since it can also be lively and humorous as well. They also have a very beautiful tone. Granted, the Dresden strings aren't as thick and luscious as the Berlin strings, but the orchestra's greater overall transparency is especially well suited to Strauss's music--considering that Strauss was one of the great orchestrators in music history.

One of the most unforgettable concert experiences that I've had in my life was hearing the Staatskapelle Dresden play the music of Strauss live at Carnegie Hall. It was an experience that I can't adequately describe in words--as it must be heard. But something uniquely special happens when all of those orchestral lines and details in Strauss's music are clearly heard and all mix together in the air. It's mind blowing, & I've never experienced anything quite like it with another orchestra.

In addition, the Staatskapelle Dresden used to be one of the most consistently in tune orchestras in the world. And again, with such richly orchestrated music, the experience of hearing the Staatskapelle Dresden at their best playing Strauss (& Wagner) is unparalleled, IMO.

Therefore, I'd strongly recommend the Staatskapelle Dresden in Strauss's tone poems. The only question is which conductor & recordings to buy? The one potential drawback to Rudolf Kempe's 'classic' recordings is that they were made in the 1970s, and obviously, this is music that greatly benefits from being reproduced in state of the art audiophile sound (like Mahler). Yet, I agree with others that the most recent remasters of Kempe's Strauss--from the original tapes--are an improvement over the earlier EMI CDs, for the most part:

https://www.amazon.com/R-Strauss-Co...s=Kempe+strauss&qid=1588098869&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Orch...s=Kempe+strauss&qid=1588098869&s=music&sr=1-2

However, not all of the EMI CDs sounded less than ideal on CD. For example, I've long considered Kempe's Ein Heldenleben to be a great sound recording, and the earlier EMI Studio CD was wonderful: https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Ein-...eben+EMI+studio&qid=1588099083&s=music&sr=1-1. Yet I wasn't as keen on Kempe's EMI CD of the Metamorphosen. So, I'd say that some of the EMI CDs were better than others. However, the original EMI LPs of Kempe's Strauss sounded great, so if there's any problem with the CDs, I don't think it has to do with the original master tapes.

Rudolf Kempe, Staatskapelle Dresden: 
Ein Heldenleben: 



Metamorphosis: 



Also Sprake Zarathustra:



Don Quixote: 



Death and Transfiguration: 



Alpine Symphony: 




Complete orchestral works, Kempe: 




I would also suggest that you sample and look into the 1980s Strauss recordings that conductor Herbert Blomstedt made during his tenure in Dresden. Blomstedt recorded for Denon at the time, and the early digital sound quality on LP was superb; although the Denon CDs came out at the beginning of the CD revolution, so they may need a new remastering by now (if interested, you might check for more recent CD remasters on Amazon Japan). Not that the Denon recordings ever sounded bad on CD, rather they had a very good sound quality at the time, but I suspect that the new remasters could possibly have an even more spectacular audiophile quality, & sound like they did once on the original LPs (by the way, Denon was generally considered an audiophile label back in the 1980s):

Herbert Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden:
Metamorphosen: 



Also Sprake Zarathustra, the opening--"Sehr Breit": 



Don Juan: 



Death and Transfiguration:




https://www.amazon.com/Also-Sprach-...omstedt+strauss&qid=1588099269&s=music&sr=1-3
https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Till...omstedt+strauss&qid=1588099325&s=music&sr=1-9

(Blomstedt has also made some well reviewed Strauss recordings in both San Francisco and Leipzig, but I've not heard them myself.)

Blomstedt is probably the best conductor to record Strauss with the Staatskapelle after Kempe, though I slightly prefer Kempe. Giuseppe Sinopoli also made some decent Strauss recordings with the Staatskapelle, as well, but I don't think they're as good as Blomstedt or Kempe's, though Sinopoli may have the best sound engineering of the three--on DG. Fabio Luisi likewise recorded a very fine Alpine Symphony with the Staatskapelle, and the sound engineering that Sony provided Luisi and the orchestra is spectacular. It is probably the best recording that I've heard to date that demonstrates how the Staatskapelle Dresden actually sounds in the concert hall (although Carlos Kleiber's Tristan und Isolde on Esoteric is wonderful, too). However, I was less enthusiastic about Luisi's Ein Heldenleben on Sony.

Luisi, Alpine Symphony:





Among older Strauss recordings, Karl Böhm was another conductor that held a post in Dresden and conducted and recorded Strauss's music with the Staatskapelle, on DG (and Profil). (Böhm could be very good in Strauss's operas, too, though he made most of his opera recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic).

https://www.amazon.com/Strauss-Tone-Poems-Richard/dp/B00002DF9N
https://www.amazon.com/R-STRAUSS-RO...+strauss+opera&qid=1588098485&s=music&sr=1-15

So too was Fritz Reiner, who spend eight of the most important years of his early career in Dresden, leading the Staatskapelle: where he conducted 536 performances of 50 operas by 30 different composers, including 4 world premieres, among them the Dresden premiere of Strauss's opera Die Frau ohne Schatten.* He also conducted 40 orchestral concerts in Dresden, including the 1915 Dresden premiere of the Alpine Symphony, which Strauss himself had premiered in Berlin with the Staatksapelle the day before.* Hence, during these years, Reiner had extensive contact with Strauss, and witnessed first hand how the composer conducted his own music. As a result, Reiner understands perfectly how transparent and clear all the orchestral lines must be in this music. And in that sense, like Kempe, his approach differs from Karajan's, in that he fully embraces the Dresden tradition; albeit he did so in Chicago with the CSO. Reiner's Strauss readings are also more strongly characterized than many of the later Strauss conductors, and some might say more imaginative.

Reiner, Ein Heldenleben: 




The other orchestra that I think has played Strauss's music exceptionally well is the Philadelphia Orchestra. Eugene Ormandy is seldom one of my favorite conductors, but I do like the final Also Sprake Zarathustra that Ormandy recorded late in his career for EMI (and more so than Ormandy's earlier RCA recording). For me, this is one of Ormandy's finest recordings, and the Philly orchestra plays fantastically well for him (although since I grew up in the Philadelphia area, I may be partial):






I've also liked the Strauss recordings that conductor Wolfgang Sawallisch made in Philadelphia. Sawallisch was another conductor that had a close relationship with the Staatskapelle Dresden, having recorded both the Schumann and Schubert Symphony cycles with them. He was also a conductor (& pianist) that performed and recorded virtually every note that Strauss ever composed, over the course of his long career, and he was known to be an expert in Strauss's music. I remember a while back hearing a live 1982 concert recording of soprano Elly Ameling singing Strauss's Four Last Songs with Sawallisch conducting the Concertgebouw Orchestra, and as beautifully as Ameling sang & interpreted these songs, what really stood out to me was how well Sawallisch conducted this music--maybe better than any other conductor I've heard (and this is a favorite work of mine, so I've heard a lot of recordings over the years).

Sawallisch, Also Sprake Zarathustra & Ein Heldenleben: 



Sawallisch, with Elly Ameling, live at the Concertgebouw in 1982: Four Last Songs: 



Sawallisch, Till Eulenspiegels: 




Bernard Haitink was another first class Strauss conductor and I wouldn't want to be without his Also Sprake Zarathustra on Philips. Here is a conductor that actually sounds like he's read the book upon which this music is based.

Haitink, Also Sprake Zarathustra:





And while I'm not always a big fan of Andre Previn's conducting, I do like the Strauss series that Previn recorded for Telarc and Philips with the Vienna Philharmonic. I can remember reading somewhere that they were Previn's favorite recordings from his career, and I'd agree they're very good. Previn also recorded the Four last Songs with one of my favorite Strauss singers (& sopranos), the American soprano Arleen Auger, as part of this series, and Previn's tempi in the 4 songs are near perfect (whereas some other conductors, like Solti & Böhm, take the songs too fast, IMO). Plus, if you listen to Previn's Metamorphosen (see link below), it actually sounds like there are only 23 strings playing, unlike Karajan's Metamorphosen, and I prefer Previn's recording, because I believe it comes closer to the more translucent 'chamber' sound that Strauss intended for this work:

Previn, Metamorphosen: 



Previn, Ein Heldenleben, & Four Last Songs, with soprano Arleen Auger: 




Lastly, another great Strauss conductor was Strauss himself; although the sound quality is poorer, of course. Unfortunately, he never made any recordings of his own music with the Staatskapelle Dresden (that I know of). But it is fascinating to hear how he interprets his own music.










*=https://www.stokowski.org/Fritz_Reiner_Biography.htm


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## Knorf

Thanks for that thoughtful and comprehensive post! I agree that Dresden's sound is distinctive and wonderful, especially in the Kempe era.

One comment in defense of Karajan and his take on Richard Strauss, it is well-known that Karajan and Strauss had a very strong mutual admiration of each other, and that Strauss was very appreciative of Karajan's performances. Obviously, almost all of Karajan's Strauss recordings came after Strauss's passing, but I think it would be highly misleading to suggest Karajan in Strauss is somehow inauthentic.

For me, I hear little of what I appreciate in Kempe's Strauss in Reiner. I still think the latter pushes Strauss too much as merely orchestral showpieces. (Although those recordings are undeniably spectacular as such.) Too much scenery chewing, if you will, and not enough deeper contemplation, especially in something like _Also sprach Zarathustra_.


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## mbhaub

mahlernerd said:


> This thread has given me so many great ideas. Are there any more modern recordings, say, 1990 and beyond that really stand out for you?


Yes there is. Andre Previn made a series of Strauss recordings in Vienna for Telarc. The sound is stunning - it's Telarc! The orchestra clearly knew the music and Previn is excellent. He did give us some fine Mahler and Korngold. These are not wimpy or dull by any means. I picked up the whole set years ago from Berkshire for around $10, but I don't think it's on their website anymore. Probably available streaming (or on eBay). All the recordings got excellent reviews. So if it's newer, excellent and superb sound you're interested in, try to find them.


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## Knorf

All of Previn's Vienna Phil. Richard Strauss recordings on Telarc are available on Presto Classical for $8.50 each:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7928177--strauss-r-tod-und-verklarung-op-24-etc
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7928179--strauss-r-eine-alpensinfonie-op-64
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7983383--strauss-ein-heldenleben-four-last-songs

Without a doubt, those are spectacularly well recorded.


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## Itullian

For me it's the Kempe remastered EMI set. i find it warmer than Karajan's.

Supplemented with Haitink's Philips Duo double discs of his Strauss.
Haitink is my favorite Zarathustra.

That's all i need.


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## Brahmsianhorn

That late Ormandy Also sprach on EMI sounds pretty fantastic!


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## Knorf

Brahmsianhorn said:


> That late Ormandy Also sprach on EMI sounds pretty fantastic!


Better than the '64 one on Columbia? (That's the one I "grew up with.")


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## Brahmsianhorn

Darn it, I knew this thread would start costing me money!

So I said that I was pretty happy with my Szell Sinfonia domestica, which although can be a little clinical has plenty of excitement, whereas the Karajan prioritizes lugubrious sensuality a bit too much for this work (though still a good recording).

Then I tried Reiner and I thought it was the best of both worlds. It really ties the work together. I can see why some say it was his best Strauss recording. I still prefer the astonishing Furtwangler as a performance, but Reiner makes an excellent top choice in up to date sound.

Also listened to Kempe's ASZ - a bit dull IMO. His Till Eulenspiegel fared better, especially compared to the heavy Karajan. Szell makes a fine stereo alternative here - plenty of life and spontaneity - but pride of place still goes to the rollicking Furtwangler in excellent 1954 mono sound.

So my big board recs for now are:

Alpensinfonie - Kempe
Also sprach - Karajan '74
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner
Till Eulenspiegel - Furtwangler EMI

Pretty good cross section of renowned Straussians!


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## Knorf

I really love the Szell/Cleveland _Till_. People who think Szell never even loosened his tie should hear it.

(That, and Haydn 93! :lol


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## perdido34

Not to criticize Szell's recording, but Dohnanyi also recorded an excellent _Till _in Cleveland.


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## wkasimer

perdido34 said:


> Not to criticize Szell's recording, but Dohnanyi also recorded an excellent _Till _in Cleveland.


Dohnanyi made a number of excellent recordings in Cleveland.


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## Roger Knox

*Exciting replies on this thread + an idea!*

Really impressed by the number of interesting posts on this thread, now approaching 100 in only five days! Where else would I find all this information and informed commentary on recordings of Strauss tone poems? TC at its best ...

My idea is to do something on Strauss's orchestral songs ... more later.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> Better than the '64 one on Columbia? (That's the one I "grew up with.")


Haven't heard the Columbia yet. I dug up an old Penguin Guide review, and they called the 1980 ASZ one of Ormandy's greatest records, better than the Columbia, and one of the few that can be mentioned "in the same breath as Karajan, although its emotional feeling more unbridled." High praise indeed! I already had put this on order thanks to the YouTube link kindly posted yesterday.

So far this thread has resulted in my making the following additions to my collection: (Maybe we can help the economy recover by posting more about Strauss recordings!)

Alpensinfonie - Karajan and Mehta
Also sprach - Ormandy EMI and Koussevitzky Dutton transfer (had no idea this transfer existed)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner and Karajan

Getting into Ein Heldenleben now. Priorities for sampling: Reiner, Karajan, Beecham, Ormandy, Barbirolli, Kempe, and of course will revisit Mengelberg


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## Knorf

wkasimer said:


> Dohnanyi made a number of excellent recordings in Cleveland.


Yeah, he did. Underrated in many respects by a certain kind of recordings cognoscenti.


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## Brahmsianhorn

An aside...I think this may win the award for worst Herbie record cover.


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## JAS

Brahmsianhorn said:


> An aside...I think this may win the award for worst Herbie record cover.


At least he is fully dressed. There is a tendency for some covers to try to sell the contents by sex appeal of the performer.


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## Knorf

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Darn it, I knew this thread would start costing me money!


I feel your pain.


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## Josquin13

Knorf said:


> Thanks for that thoughtful and comprehensive post! I agree that Dresden's sound is distinctive and wonderful, especially in the Kempe era.
> 
> One comment in defense of Karajan and his take on Richard Strauss, it is well-known that Karajan and Strauss had a very strong mutual admiration of each other, and that Strauss was very appreciative of Karajan's performances. Obviously, almost all of Karajan's Strauss recordings came after Strauss's passing, but I think it would be highly misleading to suggest Karajan in Strauss is somehow inauthentic.
> 
> For me, I hear little of what I appreciate in Kempe's Strauss in Reiner. I still think the latter pushes Strauss too much as merely orchestral showpieces. (Although those recordings are undeniably spectacular as such.) Too much scenery chewing, if you will, and not enough deeper contemplation, especially in something like _Also sprach Zarathustra_.


Karajan and Strauss first met in 1940, when Strauss attended a performance of Elektra that Karajan conducted, and Strauss was very impressed that Karajan had conducted the opera without a score, from memory. However, Karajan's Strauss conducting during the 1940s when he knew the composer was more traditional and classical. Strauss had mentored a number of conductors, such as Böhm, Szell, Krauss, Solti, etc., and they all performed Strauss's music using leaner, faster tempi--that is, in a more Mozartian style. In other words, it wasn't performed with a thick Wagnerian sound and slow tempi (if that is indeed Wagner), but in a more classical vein. Which can be attributed to the influence of Strauss's mentorship.

Then later, after Strauss had passed away, Karajan became less and less of a "traditional" Strauss conductor, in that sense, by slowing Strauss's music down, and adding extra violins, violas, double basses, etc.--beyond what Strauss had orchestrated. So, is that authentic? Not really, because Strauss didn't ask for a heavier string sound in his orchestration, rather he wanted something leaner and more nimble and quicker and more translucent overall. That's not the trademark orchestral sound that Karajan cultivated later in Berlin for his DG Strauss recordings.*

*My above points & info were mostly drawn from an interview with the General Secretary of the Richard Strauss Society and musicologist, Matthew Werley, which is worth watching: 




Sir Simon Rattle also makes an excellent and relevant point in the following interview, one that I not only agree with but have tried to make myself on these threads before (though not as well as Sir Simon)--& that is that Karajan strictly believed in producing a beautiful sound in Berlin, and one that always had to be beautiful, uniformly, no matter which composer he was conducting. Therefore, Karajan would never adapt or change this sound according to the composer or the style of music that he was conducting. Indeed, Rattle remarks that every composer had to fit into Karajan's "very specific" sound, and humorously adds that "the idea of Karajan conducting a period instrument orchestra is... far fetched": 




So, in that sense, from what we know about the 'quick and lean' Straussian style in the conductors that Strauss had mentored, and the more translucent orchestral sound of Strauss's orchestra, the Staatskapelle Dresden, I think it's safe to say that Karajan later fit Strauss's music into his string heavy Berlin sound, rather than the other way around (by making it leaner and more nimble according to Strauss's orchestration). And therefore, I don't know if I'd go as far as to call it 'inauthentic' Strauss, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as 'thoroughly idiomatic', either--as I don't think it is.

As for Reiner versus Kempe, yes, I totally agree with you. I don't know if I made it clear enough in my lengthy post above, but my first recommendation for this music is Kempe and the Staatskapelle Dresden; that is, unless audiophiles want to hear Strauss's music performed in more spectacular 'state of the art' sonics, and then maybe I'd go with Blomstedt, Luisi, Haitink, or Previn...


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## HenryPenfold

Kempe and Karajan appear to get something special out of the tone poems. They seem to breath a certain organic life into them. Reiner's performances are awesome, in the strict dictionary sense of the word.


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## HenryPenfold

Brahmsianhorn said:


> An aside...I think this may win the award for worst Herbie record cover.


I'll be back .............


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## Heck148

Josquin13 said:


> ........Sir Simon Rattle also makes an excellent and relevant point in the following interview, one that I not only agree with but have tried to make myself on these threads before (though not as well as Sir Simon)--& that is that *Karajan strictly believed in producing a beautiful sound in Berlin, and one that always had to be beautiful, uniformly, no matter which composer he was conducting. Therefore, Karajan would never adapt or change this sound according to the composer or the style of music that he was conducting. Indeed, Rattle remarks that every composer had to fit into Karajan's "very specific" sound,* and humorously adds that "the idea of Karajan conducting a period instrument orchestra is... far fetched":


Interesting....that point has been most definitely presented by quite a few posters [including and certainly myself] on various threads at this forum...Sir Simon sums it up quite well, imo...


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## Coach G

Brahmsianhorn said:


> An aside...I think this may win the award for worst Herbie record cover.


Classical music's Prince of Darkness?


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## Knorf

Anyone with ears to hear can hear that Karajan's Berliner Philharmoniker does _not_ play Brahms with precisely the same sound as they played Strauss, or Beethoven, or Wagner. That canard is so overstated as to be ridiculous.

Yes, Karajan had a signature sound. So what? Every conductor of note does. If they didn't, they are usually forgotten. (One of the reasons I'm not a Rattle fan: as far as I can tell, his signature sound is "dull." There are exceptions.)

Yes, Karajan's sound is more convincing in some repertoire than others: great in Richard Strauss, extremely inappropriate (for my taste) in the Mozart Requiem. So what? That's also true for every conductor worth mentioning.

And if you're going to suggest I'm a fanboy, at least apply it to the conductors I'm _actually_ a fanboy of: Pierre Boulez and Stanisław Skrowaczewski. The latter is Merl's fault.



Heck148 said:


> Interesting....that point has been most definitely presented by quite a few posters [including and certainly myself] on various threads at this forum...Sir Simon sums it up quite well, imo...


Oh, don't be so smug. It doesn't become you.

Anyway, Sir Simon has as much an axe to grind as anyone. Taking his word on Karajan as gospel is foolish to say the least.


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## Simplicissimus

wkasimer said:


> Dohnanyi made a number of excellent recordings in Cleveland.


Yes, like my favorite Ives 4 and Orchestral Set No. 1. I'm now needing to hear his Till, for sure!


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## Heck148

Knorf said:


> Oh, don't be so smug. It doesn't become you.
> Anyway, Sir Simon has as much an axe to grind as anyone. Taking his word on Karajan as gospel is foolish to say the least.


Lol!! I wasn't trying to be smug, I just happen to agree with Rattle..I think his point has much validity, and he expressed it quite concisely...tho I arrived at a similar conclusion long before Sir Simon's opinion appeared on the scene.
I'm no big Rattle fan, I've never been particularly bowled over by his performances...they're ok...


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## Knorf

Heck148 said:


> I'm no big Rattle fan, I've never been particularly bowled over by his performances...they're ok...


Something else we agree on!


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## MatthewWeflen

Brahmsianhorn said:


> An aside...I think this may win the award for worst Herbie record cover.


There are far worse covers than this in Karajan's discography. At least this one theoretically has something to do with music, and the typography is nice enough. This one, OTOH:


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## Eclectic Al

The cover for Ein Heldenleben looks to my eye like an ironic joke: whether at Karajan's expense or with his agreement, I wouldn't know. I think it works quite well on that basis.
If it's to be taken straight then perhaps it was an attempt to increase HvK's appeal with a particular demographic.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Just finished listening to several Ein Heldenlebens the past two days.

Verdict:

Kempe was affectionate but underpowered. Beecham was likewise a bit underpowered although showing great command. Barbirolli was predictably lush but a bit too milked for drama and lacking momentum. The Hero's Retreat was wonderful though, as Sir John really lets the string section rip loose.

Karajan '59 was good, but a bit on the raw side in terms of interpretation, performance, and recording. It did not feel like a special occasion even though it was better than most. 

Reiner has graced my shelf for decades. It is beautifully played and makes for a very enjoyable listening experience.

However, there are two modern recordings that for me really hit it out of the park: Ormandy 1960/Sony and Karajan 1974/EMI. Both recordings have a sweeping vision and really told the story of the piece in a way I found at times overwhelming.

People often say that Karajan stuffs whatever piece he is playing into his aesthetic, and that may be true. But it can also be quite intoxicating. One example for me is Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande. It sounds wrong to me intellectually - Debussy soup - but it is oh so magnetically beautiful. Likewise his 1974 Heldenleben is quite spellbinding. Karajan carries an unrelenting vision from start to finish that holds my attention, and his orchestra and the recording engineers deliver a wonderful sound. Some prefer the 1959 for being less manicured, but I say if I'm going to listen to Karajan then give me the real deal.

That said, I think Ormandy is closer to the mark for a Heldenleben to live with. His recording is more energetic, less smoothed over. He has an inspired vision for the work that outshines even the celebrated Reiner IMO. An added plus is Anshel Brusilow delivering one of the best recorded renditions of the solo part. I was a bit surprised, viewing Ormandy as fairly straight forward, but here he delivers, and the orchestra plays lights out.

Finally, I returned to Mengelberg as well, and I find the 1928 NYPO at least as inspired and insightful as Ormandy despite the dated sound. A rightful classic of the gramophone that everyone should hear once. His 1941 Concertgebouw is favored by some, but for me it's not quite as concentrated as the NYPO, a bit more exaggerated IMO. Likewise worth a listen.

So my current big board of Strauss tone poem picks is turning into quite a potpourri of different styles:

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan 1974 (DG)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy 1960 (Sony)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI)


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## Brahmsianhorn

Took in a few more Heldenlebens last night.

Monteux...wow! Why does he not get mentioned more among the greats? His 1947 San Francisco Heldenleben is riveting, and the Russian violinist (forgot his name) added some Slavic poignancy to the solo. I purchased it immediately. One of the great accounts, no doubt, and right up there with Mengelberg regardless of sound quality (which is fairly arcane).

Toscanini (live 1941) delivers a fine account, on par with Reiner. It has all the virtuosity you'd expect plus some lovely moments of tranquility. Toscanini was not a simple martinet, he was a true musician!

Listened to Bohm/Dresden.....booooring.

Strauss's own account is excellent. A bit more reined in than we are used to, but I enjoyed it. The Bavarian orchestra was definitely inspired.

And finally, how can I be the first poster to mention Clemens Krauss in this thread??? As a set I am beginning to think this one puts Kempe/Reiner/Karajan in the shade. Yes, it is mono. Yes, people complain about the remastering and the string sound. But it is full and immediate and arresting. Krauss is as authoritative a Strauss conductor in decent sound as you are going to find.










I already had his excellent Elektra. Undecided if I will buy this complete Decca or the individual Testament issues. It's not complete...missing Alpensinfonie, Macbeth, and Metamorphosen. Death and Transfiguration is also missing, but it is available on a separate Dutton.

I found Krauss's recordings thoroughly engaging. Also sprach's opening is no match for Karajan, but the rest is fantastic. Ein Heldenleben is likewise authoritative with the matchless solo of Wili Boskovsky. Till Eulenspiegel is right up there with Furtwangler. Haven't sampled the rest, but feel pretty confident this is a Strauss set to live with.


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## perdido34

I just heard a pre-release copy of Also Sprach Zarathustra and Till Eulenspiegel with Urbanski conducting the Elbphilharmonie. These are outstanding performances in great sound. I won't say they are the BEST when there are so many other fine performances, but check them out if you can.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I stumbled upon this ASZ yesterday. A superlative reading.


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## Knorf

Maazel, huh? Interesting.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> Maazel, huh? Interesting.


I was surprised


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> Maazel, huh? Interesting.


Judging from the picture (I haven't listened, since I have very limited tolerance for ASZ), it was fairly early in his career. Some of his early recordings with the Berlin PO (especially Schubert and Mendelssohn symphonies) are excellent.


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## Knorf

More recordings to add to the list! Sheesh. I need many more lifetimes. A few more won't do.


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## flamencosketches

wkasimer said:


> Judging from the picture (I haven't listened, since I have very limited tolerance for ASZ), it was fairly early in his career. Some of his early recordings with the Berlin PO (especially Schubert and Mendelssohn symphonies) are excellent.


Agreed. I thought I hated Maazel until I heard his excellent Mendelssohn 5th with the BPO. Now I'm convinced he was one of the most inconsistent conductors of all time.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Today was a Don Juan day. I frankly had never paid much attention to this work before, seeing it more like a filler, but it's grown on me.

Standing out the most as performances were Furtwangler's first and last live renditions, from 1942 and 1954. The 1942 is tense and exciting, but I was actually even more bowled over by his last BPO rendition, an amazing performance in excellent sound. This to me is a desert island choice, unfortunately only available through the large Audite RIAS set (which nonetheless is an integral set and worthy of a place on anyone’s shelf). The recording was from the same concert as Furtwangler's definitive Brahms 3rd issued on DG. It's a shame DG didn't issue this likewise definitive DJ along with it. Instead they issued a 1947 BPO which is not quite as good in either performance or sound, but certainly among his best. I have to say although the studio EMI is a good performance, it lacks the energy of his others. Given this and the fact that the others are live accounts, my search for an ideal DJ recommendation went elsewhere.

There are lots of really good accounts of this piece which are appealing for different reasons. Kempe is quite lovely if not quite as much a standout. Solti/CSO is a real winner which checks all the boxes, exciting and beautiful. I had read that Karajan's earlier EMI and Decca readings were the ones to go for, but I found his '74 DG a better listening experience. As I have said before, I'd rather hear Karajan at his most self-assured, luxuriant best, and that tends to occur more often than not in the 70's. An excellent, engaging account, of course coupled with his unmatched ASZ and a Till Eulenspiegel that is nice but a bit mellow for my taste in that work. But I cannot leave out Reiner, a justly famous account sounding just gorgeous despite its age.

And yet...I think top honors here must go to Szell/Cleveland, an energetic rendition from the word go that then also settles in to as beautiful an account of the poignant central oboe solo section as you're going to hear. This is also coupled with Ormandy's wonderful Heldenleben and Szell's spirited Till Eulenspiegel, so I can see now why so many have hailed this CD as a must-buy for Straussians. Indeed it is.

So my current big board of Strauss recommendations adds another name to make for six different conductors in six different works. Something's got to give eventually, and I suspect it will be with Tod und Verklarung which shapes up as a Furtwangler vs Karajan battle. But you never know once you start listening and comparing!

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan 1974 (DG)
Don Juan - Szell (Sony)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy 1960 (Sony)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI)


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## Brahmsianhorn

I listened to a bunch of Tod und Verklarung recordings the past 48 hours. Is this Strauss's masterpiece? At least among orchestral works I'd have to say yes. You know this is probably true when there is such a plethora of great recordings that you can't choose between. I thought in the end this would turn out to be a Furtwangler vs Karajan battle with the possibility of another surprise, but there were plenty of other great recordings along the way.

The first major surprise was the recording that failed to register as a great one despite its press clippings: Karajan's 1983 digital recording. I found this to be good in places but generally not very compelling, essentially nice sounds strung together almost aimlessly. It just did not strike me as Karajan at his most inspired or concentrated. Most crucially, it did not convince me of the greatness of the work.

Other rather forgettable recordings included Maazel/NPO whom I had heard good things about and felt intrigued over after hearing his superlative ASZ from the same period, but it turned out to be nothing special. Dohnanyi had some powerful moments towards the end but was not otherwise too distinctive. Klemperer I found to have the appropriate gravitas, but his lack of elasticity ultimately proved a drawback in this dynamic work. Kempe is more at home, but his rendition was lacking in power and not as memorable as the best. Horenstein interpretively was a step up, but his orchestra lacked the cohesion and opulence to make a real impact in the climaxes. 

Reiners's VPO account is very beautiful and engaging, though a tad too meticulous for my taste. His earlier CSO account is very similar but lacks the opulent beauty of the VPO. Stokowski provides plenty of beauty in his surprisingly good sounding 1934 account, though not enough to warrant more than historical interest. He also gets a bit schmaltzy for a work like this, with distracting portamenti in the closing bars. De Sabata's 1949 reading is intense and concentrated, though it could open up a bit more in the climaxes. Knappertsbusch (1956, Testament) delivers a more idiomatic reading, making one think of Tristan und Isolde. Karajan's 1953 Philharmonia EMI is his most extravert reading, and already shows his mastery of the score.

Toscanini left several intense, passionate, not to mention beautifully introspective accounts, my favorite being the 1938 NBC, though the better recorded studio 1950 version on RCA will be preferred by many. In between these two is a very dimly recorded 1942 Philadelphia account that I found to be slightly less intense though certainly striking in moments. Strauss himself conducted poignantly beautiful versions in 1926 with the Staatskapelle Berlin as well as in 1944 with the VPO, the latter the more powerfully inspired and obviously better recorded. In fact, excepting the sound quality the Strauss/VPO is a reference version. Krauss was recorded somewhat less dimly in 1947 with the LPO, and he left a reading that stands among the greats, with plenty of excitement and authority. The same can be said of Monteux, recorded much better in 1960. This is one of the handful of greatest recordings I've heard of this work, with clear mastery of the score and wonderful power and spontaneity, although the San Francisco musicians are not quite up to the standard of other top choices.

Furtwangler employs his famed flexibility of tempo in just the right way in an intensely moving performance with the VPO on EMI. His recording immediately sets a sound world drawing you into the music, and from there he conducts a clinic of inspired music-making, ending with maybe the most powerful climax on record. I will say however that the 1950 sound is not as good as the coupled 1954 Till Eulenspiegel, and I kept thinking this is a drawback in making this an unqualified first choice. But regardless it should be at least heard by anyone who loves this work and Strauss for that matter.

Enter George Szell and the recording that gave me the biggest surprise, though that shouldn't have been the case considering it is so universally admired. If this isn't Szell's greatest overall recording it certainly is near the top. I was bowled over by the perfection of it all, from the rhythmic incisiveness and dexterity to the beautiful sound throughout, and in particular the lovely oboe solo in the beginning. It is a captivating recording and ends in absolute tranquility. I was pretty much dead set on proclaiming this my top recommendation after hearing it.

However, back came Karajan to redeem himself from the disappointment I felt at his famed 1983 outing. The earlier 1971 recording, paired with the famous Janowitz Four Last Songs, is worlds apart. This is Karajan at his most concentrated and masterly. It opens as hushed as any version, and then opens up to a reading of great power and drama. Throughout Karajan's gift of pacing and architecture comes through. The whole thing feels inevitable, and you are transported into a different world, which is exactly what we want in this work. Like Furtwangler before him, Karajan ends with a climax of overwhelming power. In short, Karajan '71 is one of the greatest Strauss recordings I've ever heard, not to mention one of Karajan's best recordings as well.

So my big board of top recommendations adds for the first time a second version by one conductor. I've been going back and relistening to these, and they are all recordings sure to make you love Strauss. On to Metamorphosen, and I'm especially curious if the 70s vs 80s Karajan comparison mirrors the one for TuV.

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan 1974 (DG)
Don Juan - Szell (Sony)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy 1960 (Sony)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI) 
Tod und Verklarung - Karajan 1971 (DG)


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## Allegro Con Brio

^I totally agree that ’70’s Karajan always seems to be the most inspired. Not always my first choice, but I really do enjoy his Beethoven, Strauss, and Bruckner from that period not to mention a few other individual recordings like the Prokofiev 5. Things seem crisper, better delineated, less muddled, more passionate. In the '60’s my impression is that he skimmed the surface more, while in the ’80’s things are a bit mushier. The overall sound he produced didn’t really change, but I think he made the most of it in the ’70’s recordings.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^I totally agree that '70's Karajan always seems to be the most inspired. Not always my first choice, but I really do enjoy his Beethoven, Strauss, and Bruckner from that period not to mention a few other individual recordings like the Prokofiev 5. Things seem crisper, better delineated, less muddled, more passionate. In the '60's my impression is that he skimmed the surface more, while in the '80's things are a bit mushier. The overall sound he produced didn't really change, but I think he made the most of it in the '70's recordings.


Precisely my impression, which is not to say there are not exceptions. But 70s is where to me he really came into his own. For example, the '77 Beethoven 9th is to me far more impassioned and individual compared to the '63 while more alert and concentrated than the 80s digital.


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## Heck148

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Reiners's VPO account is very beautiful and engaging, though a tad too meticulous for my taste. His earlier CSO account is very similar but lacks the opulent beauty of the VPO.


Reiner's earlier account is with RCAVictorSO [MetOpera - NY freelancers] - and it is sizzling and powerful...so is is VPO account.....both are the two best versions of the work...Reiner had the VPO playing right at [over??] the edge of "decency" - they are really going after it....in both recordings, the ultimate climax of the Transfiguration is overwhelming....when the trombones intone the transfiguration theme G-A-B- B[8va]-A-G - it is played as marked - _FFF_ - accented, molto marcato [- iow - as loud as possible] - it is very powerful on both recordings.
I mention this because one Karajan recording I heard [don't remember which, it was posted as an supposed example of the superiority of Karajan, Teutonic superiority in Germanic music, blah, blah, etc, etc] - was really lame, as in _bad_....it was played _mf-forte_, legato, _non accent_....absolutely wrong....no balls whatsoever...why would they even release something so badly misplayed?? He wanted it that way??  Anyway, I write Karajan off in this work..

Toscanini/NBC is a good account, and so is Sinopoli/NYPO...I have a broadcast tape of Sinopoli/CSO which is very excellent, tho his NYPO account enjoys better recorded sound [presently NA??].



> So my big board of top recommendations adds for the first time a second version by one conductor.
> ......
> Don Juan - Szell (Sony)


Szell is quite good - but Reiner owns this one....3 recordings - #1 with Pittsburgh; #2 - CSO '54 [great recording]; and #3 - again, with CSO '60 [the best there is - a single take job that is truly inspired....]
Reiner's '60 version, like his '62 ASZ, is one of the greatest orchestra performances on record - done on a single take [I think they edited one horn miss] - this one just crackles with energy and excitement from the get-go...It explodes out of the blocks at a ripping tempo, the orchestra really alert, playing right at the front edge of the beat...the lush, lyrical "Love music" that follows is most passionately rendered, reaching a shattering climax of great intensity - having great principals to lead the way certainly helps - S. Harth/CM, P. Farkas/Hn, A. Herseth/tpt...the oboe solo [R. Still] is played with touching passion and expression, and the great CSO horns are truly noble and majestic with the big horn tune....great recap, as well, it's great to hear the horn really nail the high concert "Eb" on the recap of the horn tune - absolutely "swinging for the fence" - these guys make a great crescendo to the top, and all hit it brilliantly...I recall recordings by both Szell and Furtwangler where the horns "clam" here [it's a great spot for it!!] - perhaps these glitches have been edited out of present editions??

Solti's recording is really excellent also...he doesn't quite get the crackling tempo of Reiner '60, but it moves along well, a very exciting account....I rate the Solti about even with Reiner '54...


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## Brahmsianhorn

Heck148 said:


> Reiner's earlier account is with RCAVictorSO [MetOpera - NY freelancers] - and it is sizzling and powerful...so is is VPO account.....both are the two best versions of the work...Reiner had the VPO playing right at [over??] the edge of "decency" - they are really going after it....in both recordings, the ultimate climax of the Transfiguration is overwhelming....when the trombones intone the transfiguration theme G-A-B- B[8va]-A-G - it is played as marked - _FFF_ - accented, molto marcato [- iow - as loud as possible] - it is very powerful on both recordings.


I'll have to check out the RCAVictor Reiner.



Heck148 said:


> I mention this because one Karajan recording I heard [don't remember which, it was posted as an supposed example of the superiority of Karajan, Teutonic superiority in Germanic music, blah, blah, etc, etc] - was really lame, as in _bad_....it was played _mf-forte_, legato, _non accent_....absolutely wrong....no balls whatsoever...why would they even release something so badly misplayed?? He wanted it that way??  Anyway, I write Karajan off in this work..


If you look at the beginning and end of my post, you'll see where I note a stark difference in my impression of Karajan's famous digital recording vs his 70s version. The difference was night and day, with the 80s comparatively mellow and aimless whereas the 70s is one of the greatest Strauss recordings I've heard, overwhelming in its power and command of architecture. I'll even admit it's more inspired than my beloved Furtwangler, somehow managing to stretch the work to a heavenly 27 minutes.

I once read Furtwangler's reaction to Abendroth's Meistersinger as being "couldn't have done it better myself." I imagine he'd have the same reaction to Karajan '71 Tod.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Listening to Klemperer's Metamorphosen and it is pretty engrossing. Wkasimir, you mentioned this recording earlier.

And sure enough, I also felt a stronger sense of direction and purpose in Karajan's 70s version vs his 80s version as well.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Wow, what a weekend spent listening over and over to Metamorphosen! I can't believe I managed to keep my wits about me. This is a work that is impossible to choose a "reference" version for, mainly because there are so many varying takes on it. In the end, I could see anyone choosing to live with either Kempe, Klemperer, or 80s Karajan, but better yet would be to obtain all three. I see these three as constituting a fascinating contrast between Karajan's tragic power, Kempe's elegiac beauty, and Klemperer's hypnotic gravitas.

Ironically, Karajan's earlier analogue DG is closer in spirit to Kempe than it is to his own later recording. Here he takes a more graceful, beautiful approach, less declamatory and more concentrated and reined in, which some may see as preferable to the later one. The recording is more distant, producing a creamier sound, maybe a bit too much for a such a solemn work. Still, it is paired with what I consider a matchless Tod und Verklarung, so it will be worth acquiring regardless.

However, the Karajan to hear is his last one. I called Karajan's digital Tod und Verklarung a disappointment, especially compared to the earlier version. Not so with Metamorphosen. Perhaps this is why it is tracked first on the disc (the opposite of the analogue disc's order). This is Karajan at his most extravagantly ambitious. The big climax in the final third of the work has probably never been more devastating on record, reminding me of the impact of his '82 Mahler 9th and '88 Bruckner 8th. The overall string tone is harsher than his earlier version, not to mention Kempe's, but the emphasis here is on drama over beauty, and it is quite overwhelming. At the same time, part of me wondered if this represents more of a one-off than an ideal representative version of the work. It is at times a bit heavy-handed, with perhaps too much emphasis on the sheer power of the BPO strings.

Kempe's version emphasizes more the intimate solemnity in addition to the powerful drama. The string tone is gorgeous and appropriately sorrowful, and his conducting is endlessly illuminating. There is more reverential dignity and nobility with Kempe, and I felt swept away as I did with his Alpensinfonie.

But then enter Klemperer, and in addition to solemn nobility we hear clarity of line and inevitability of structure. This is the other end of the spectrum from Karajan's emotional reading, with Klemperer maintaining a steady, unrelenting interpretation throughout. The effect of this approach is devastating, even if the tone is not as beautifully poignant as Kempe's Dresdeners. Some may even see Klemperer's approach as overly harsh, and for them Kempe may be an ideal compromise between Karajan's overt emotion and Klemperer's clarity of purpose.

Barbirolli emulates the largeness of Karajan but even more freely, the string sound predictability enchanting. As ever with this conductor the results are compelling, with everything beautifully judged, but when set against Klemperer you can see how much this work requires more discipline for the overall effect to come through.

The live Furtwangler from 1947 is fascinating and does nothing to settle the debate over how the work should go. His version is relentlessly urgent, one of the fastest ever recorded. But his gift for phrasing and communicative tone make this uniquely compelling despite the murky sound. Karajan recorded the work in studio the very same year, and it is likewise compelling but in a completely opposite interpretation, lengthening the phrases and providing an overall arc to the work that IMO is even more convincing than either of his later versions despite the dated sound.

There are other newer recordings that are also worth seeking out, including those by Previn, Jarvi and Marriner/ASMF that are musical if not quite with the personality of those listed above. Blomstedt/Dresden is fairly forgettable. Much more compelling are Richard Stamp and Iona Brown, both of whom use generally light textures but increase the tensions en route to exciting climaxes.

But for a first recommendation, choice comes down to the three K's: Kempe, Karajan, and Klemperer. The analogue Karajan is a good choice for those wanting a relatively controlled version expertly paced. The later Karajan is perhaps the most overtly powerful on record. But for me the reference version comes down to either Kempe or Klemperer, and it is practically a coin flip. It comes down ultimately to a situation where if I texted a friend - "I've been getting into Strauss lately. Have you heard Metamorphosen?" - which version would I send him? And without even thinking Klemperer occurs first. This is the version that for me tells the story and makes me appreciate the work the most, and that is always the ultimate criterion.

Kempe does still have the more essential and attractive couplings. It is interesting to note that in Volume 3 of the original Kempe complete Strauss edition, his superlative Alpensinfonie and Metamorphosen are paired together as well as with his acclaimed Don Quixote, Aus Italien, and Macbeth. I noticed that in Gramophone Magazine's guide from the 90s they gave the first two volumes 2 stars each but the third one was given 3 stars as well as a "100 greatest recordings of all time" designation, which matches my reaction to the recordings as well. Whether by accident or design this appears to be the choice Kempe volume to get, though certainly many will want the complete works sets issued more recently.

All that's left for me now is to sample Don Quixote (starting with Tortelier/Kempe, Fournier/Karajan, Janigro/Reiner, and Fournier/Szell) and then Aus Italian/Macbeth (assuming Kempe barring a major surprise) to complete my big board of recommendations:

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan (1974, DG)
Don Juan - Szell (Sony)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy (Sony)
Metamorphosen - Klemperer (EMI)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Tod und Verklarung - Karajan (1972, DG)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI)


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## Allegro Con Brio

^I’ve gotta give it to ya...you are one patient listener! I don’t think I would be able to listen to as much Strauss as you have without losing my mind! Really helpful recommendations though. Not quite on the thread topic, but do you have any Four Last Songs recommendations?


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## Brahmsianhorn

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^I've gotta give it to ya...you are one patient listener! I don't think I would be able to listen to as much Strauss as you have without losing my mind! Really helpful recommendations though. Not quite on the thread topic, but do you have any Four Last Songs recommendations?


Metamorphosen is some heavy-duty listening, I'll tell you. I'm looking forward to an emotional respite with Don Quixote today.

I've been a devout lover of the Schwarzkopf/Szell for 25 years, but like everything that could also stand a focused "taste test." I know I have sampled others, like Della Casa, Janowitz, Norman, and Schwarzkopf/Ackermann, but none have replaced S'kopf/Szell in my affections. The closest probably would be Flagstad/Furtwangler, but if any Furtwangler recording has intolerable sound, it is this one. But no doubt there is great art coming through the crackles.


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## Knorf

For _Don Quixote_, I also recommend giving the Karajan EMI recording with Rostropovich a listen.

And don't leave out _Macbeth_! I mean, come on. Go for complete. (Kempe for _Macbeth_ in my opinion. No one else has ever convinced me to pay much attention to it. Also, neither Karajan nor Reiner ever recorded it, to my knowledge.)


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> For _Don Quixote_, I also recommend giving the Karajan EMI recording with Rostropovich a listen.
> 
> And don't leave out _Macbeth_! I mean, come on. Go for complete. (Kempe for _Macbeth_ in my opinion. No one else has ever convinced me to pay much attention to it. Also, neither Karajan nor Reiner ever recorded it, to my knowledge.)


Right, that's what I said at the bottom of my post - Macbeth and Aus Italien. The 3rd Kempe Strauss box contains these plus Alpensinfonie, Metamorphosen, and Don Quixote. Pretty indispensible.


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## Knorf

Ah, so you did. I guess my eyes slipped right over that. Apologies.


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## perdido34

There is a live performance of Metamorphosen with Szell/Cleveland, well worth your time if you run across it.


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## superhorn

This justly renowned Kempe set does not actually have the complete orchestral music of Richard Strauss . There is only a sort of suite from the Josephslegende , one waltz from the ballet Schlagobers , no Munchen waltz , neither of his two early symphonies etc . But it's still an indispensable set for anyone who loves his music .


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## Knorf

superhorn said:


> This justly renowned Kempe set does not actually have the complete orchestral music of Richard Strauss . There is only a sort of suite from the Josephslegende , one waltz from the ballet Schlagobers , no Munchen waltz , neither of his two early symphonies etc . But it's still an indispensable set for anyone who loves his music .


For sure! I'm glad I have it.


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## Brahmsianhorn

perdido34 said:


> There is a live performance of Metamorphosen with Szell/Cleveland, well worth your time if you run across it.


After sampling all his Strauss, I hereby apologize to Szell, his ghost, and any of his progeny for any disparaging remarks I may have ever made about him.


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## Gray Bean

Very fond of the Chandos/Jarvi/Scottish National Orchestra recordings for the wild and wooly playing of the orchestra. 
Karajan (any), Reiner sometimes, Kempe sometimes, single: Sinopoli/NYPO/DG/ Also Sprach & Tod


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## Brahmsianhorn

Man, I'm still going back and forth with Metamorphosen. Tonight I find myself leaning more towards Karajan's analogue recording. He seems to strike just the right ethereal tone whereas the later recording is a bit more earthbound despite its obvious passion and commitment. The analogue Karajan is beautifully eloquent, almost mysterious sounding. As much as I like the Klemperer, it is nice to hear a bit more nuance, and Karajan here is extremely concentrated even if the soupy delivery sometimes obscures the 4-note Beethoven 5th motif. Kempe's is exquisitely played, really perfect sounding, though his more graceful handling of the score does not leave quite the same emotional impact as you get with Karajan. 

Hmmm, may change my mind on this one. (strange, some have accused me of having fixed opinions. Of course we all become master psychologists when asserting the superiority of our own viewpoints.)


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## Brahmsianhorn

Well, just listened to Klemp and HvK Metamorphosens back-to-back and have to say Klemp is still the king for his devastating impact here, though the beautiful analogue Karajan is also essential, as are the Kempe and the later Karajan.

So, Don Quixote...I have been accused by some of having a bias towards pre-stereo recordings. I do not have any such bias. An accurate statement would be that more often than not what I am looking for in recordings I hear in accounts from the distant past. The reasons vary, but chiefly among them is that I hear more story-telling in older recordings - connection to the meaning of the music - as opposed to merely impressively reproducing the markings in the score.

Nowhere in this Strauss survey is this more apparent than with Don Quixote. This score is a wonderful opportunity for story-telling that in the wrong hands can sound like a bunch of notes and rhythms thrown together.

Fournier/Karajan was the first recording I sampled, and the stale, charmless treatment had me wondering if I like the piece at all. Tortelier/Kempe fared much better, with more spirit and obvious awareness of the narrative. Some swear by the earlier 1958 Tortelier/Kempe with the BPO. It is a bit more urgent perhaps, but I prefer the better sound and orchestral cohesion of the later Dresden version. Janigro/Reiner is a beautiful and thrilling orchestral display, but I did not feel a connection to the story. It was like Don Quixote came, he saw, he went, and I felt nothing. Munroe/Ormandy is musical and affectionate, with the soloist refreshingly not overly dominant, but there are more exciting versions.

Rostropovich/Karajan was a unique listening experience. The sound is spectacular and overwhelming, but after a while I wonder what exactly I am listening to. It is enormous, voluptuous, powerful, and beautiful sounding, but where is the character and charm? I am hit over the head with impressive sounds, but I can't help but feel the music is being used to serve the performers rather than vice versa. Or, put another way, it's all just simply too big. I'm impressed, but left cold.

For Don Quixote, I really had to go further back to find recordings that really sell me on the music, and fortunately there are several of them.

The first to really grab me was Fournier/Krauss. This is now my desert island choice, fully engrossing from start to finish. The sound is not bad at all for 1953 mono. Krauss provides just the right amount of atmosphere and fantasy in addition to excitement, and Fournier is an exquisitely musical Quixote.

Almost as good and in similarly decent mono is the 1947 Tortelier/Beecham, charming, affectionate, and enchanting. The 1940 Feuermann/Ormandy is much dimmer sound quality, but the performance is thrilling, one of the greatest ever recorded. You really get the sense of a heroic journey in this intense committed performance, helped by Ormandy's obvious understanding of the score and the virtuosic Philadelphia Orchestra. Finally, everyone who loves this work should hear the composer's 1941 rendition with Oswald Uhl. This is affectionate story-telling with a palpable sense of adventure and fantasy in fairly decent sound.

AND.....just as I was about to end this post and declare Krauss the top recommendation, in my mailbox this afternoon dropped the one acclaimed recording of this work I could not find anywhere online: Fournier/Szell. I have to say this one is a real winner! It is both sonically spectacular AND a great story-telling rendition that makes me love the work. I still like Krauss's atmosphere, but Szell in fantastic 1961 stereo makes a clear top choice for anyone coming new to the work.

Which also brings me to this point: George Szell is now in my mind the greatest modern interpreter of Richard Strauss. Not Karajan, not Kempe, not Reiner.

Who knew? :cheers:

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan (1974, DG)
Don Quixote - Fournier/Szell (Sony)
Don Juan - Szell (Sony)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy (Sony)
Metamorphosen - Klemperer (EMI)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Tod und Verklarung - Karajan (1972, DG)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI)


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## Simplicissimus

I ended up buying the Sawallisch/Philadelphia Orchestra recordings from the 1993-1996 period, and I'm glad I did. The 2-CD set included a recording of Tod und Verklärung by Klaus Tennstedt and the London Philharmonic Orchestra from 1982. It's really nice to have Sawallisch's accounts of these to complement the Reiner and Dorati recordings that I've had for a long time. I highly recommend this set!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Alright, my personal survey of Strauss tone poems recordings is complete. It's pretty fun to completely immerse yourself in recordings of orchestral repertoire. I've done a few of these the past three years, including for the Brahms violin concerto, Mahler symphonies, Beethoven symphonies, Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade, Brahms piano concertos and the Brahms symphonies. This one was unexpected since I never listened to much Strauss before, so thanks OP!

The last two recording surveys were pretty anticlimactic - Aus Italien and Macbeth. Both I can firmly recommend the Kempe. There is a Krauss Aus Italien that I found surprisingly uninteresting, though admittedly I do not like the piece all that much. Macbeth is more compelling, with a pretty cool ending, and if anyone knows a version to compete with Kempe please mention it.

So my recommendations for individual recordings of Strauss tone poems (plus Metamorphosen) to live with are:

Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe (EMI)
Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan (1974, DG)
Aus Italien - Kempe (EMI)
Don Quixote - Fournier/Szell (Sony)
Don Juan - Szell (Sony)
Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy (Sony)
Macbeth - Kempe (EMI)
Metamorphosen - Klemperer (EMI)
Sinfonia domestica - Reiner (RCA)
Tod und Verklarung - Karajan (1972, DG)
Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche - Furtwangler (EMI)

Of course much of this involves duplication, and given that Furtwangler's Till is in mono and we have an excellent Szell recording coupled with a definitive Heldenleben and Don Juan, I'll mention the Furt as lower in terms of a "must have." Similarly, you can get a great Metamorphosen from Karajan coupled with his definitive Tod und Verklarung and an excellent Don Quixote from Tortelier/Kempe coupled with definitive versions of Eine Alpensinfonie, Macbeth and Aus Italien.

So I recommend these 5 recordings to anyone getting into Strauss orchestral music for the first time:

*Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan*










*Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy / Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel - Szell*










*Tod und Verklärung, Metamorphosen - Karajan*










*Eine Alpensinfonie, Don Quixote, Aus Italien, Macbeth - Kempe*










*Sinfonia domestica - Reiner*










Finally, as I did in my other surveys, here is a list of "essential" recordings for each work followed by those I put in the "further listening" category.

◄ indicates a top recommendation combining performance and sound quality
♫ indicates a uniquely great performance apart from age or sound quality

*Eine Alpensinfonie*

Rudolf Kempe (1971) (EMI) ◄
Richard Strauss (Dutton, EMI, Preiser, Dante Lys)
Herbert von Karajan (1980) (DG)
Zubin Mehta (Decca)

Further listening: Rudolf Kempe (1966) (Testament), Frank Shipway (BIS), Karl Böhm (DG), Georg Solti (Decca), Christian Thielemann (DG), Lorin Maazel (RCA), Herbert Blomstedt (Decca), Neeme Järvi (Chandos), Bernard Haitink (Philips)

*Also sprach Zarathustra*

Serge Koussevitzky (Dutton, Magic Talent)
Herbert von Karajan (1974) (DG) ◄
Frederick Stock (Biddulph)
Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament)
Fritz Reiner (1954) (RCA)
Eugene Ormandy (1980) (EMI)

Further listening: Lorin Maazel (1963) (EMI), Herbert von Karajan (1983) (DG), Herbert Blomstedt (Denon), Herbert von Karajan (1959) (Decca), Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), William Steinberg (DG), Eugene Ormandy (1964) (Sony), Fritz Reiner (1960) (RCA), Andre Previn (Telarc), Lorin Maazel (1983) (DG), Zubin Mehta (1968) (Decca), Georg Solti (1975) (Decca)

*Aus Italien*

Rudolf Kempe (EMI) ◄

Further listening: Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament)

*Don Juan*

Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954) (Tahra, Audite)
George Szell (Sony) ◄
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954) (EMI)
Fritz Reiner (1954) (RCA)
Herbert von Karajan (1974) (DG)

Further listening: Wilhelm Furtwängler (2/17/1942) (Berlin PO, DG, Music & Arts, Tahra, Dante Lys), Willem Mengelberg (1941) (Naxos, Dutton, Teldec, Preiser, Arkadia), Otto Klemperer (EMI), Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament), Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser), Richard Strauss (1929) (Dutton, DG), Georg Solti (1975) (Decca), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), Leopold Stokowski (Everest), Herbert von Karajan (1959) (Decca), Andre Cluytens (Testament), Klaus Tennstedt (EMI), Herbert Blomstedt (Denon), Karl Böhm (1957) (DG), Andre Previn (Telarc), Herbert von Karajan (1951) (EMI, Testament), Arturo Toscanini (1939) (Music & Arts), Lorin Maazel (RCA), Zubin Mehta (1965) (RCA), Arturo Toscanini (1952) (RCA), Antal Dorati (Decca), Neeme Järvi (Chandos)

*Don Quixote*

Pierre Fournier/Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament)
Emanuel Feuermann/Eugene Ormandy (Biddulph, Opus Kura)
Oswald Uhl/Richard Strauss (Dutton)
Paul Tortelier/Sir Thomas Beecham (EMI)
Pierre Fournier/George Szell (Sony) ◄
Paul Tortelier/Rudolf Kempe (1973) (EMI)
Mstislav Rostropovich/Herbert von Karajan (EMI)

Further listening: Paul Tortelier/Rudolf Kempe (1958) (Testament, Regis, EMI), Antonio Janigro/Fritz Reiner (RCA), Lorne Munroe/Eugene Ormandy (Sony), Gregor Piatigorsky/Charles Munch (RCA), Alfred Wallenstein/Sir Thomas Beecham (RCA), Pierre Fournier/Herbert von Karajan (DG), Emanuel Feuermann/Arturo Toscanini (Guild, Music & Arts, Opus Kura, Hunt), Jacqueline Du Pre/Sir Adrian Boult (EMI), Samuel Mayes/Eugene Ormandy (RCA), Janos Starker/Leonard Slatkin (RCA), Franz Bartolomey/Andre Previn (Telarc)

*Ein Heldenleben*

Willem Mengelberg (1928) (Pearl, Kipepeo, RCA) ♫
Pierre Monteux (1947) (RCA)
Eugene Ormandy (1961) (Sony) ◄
Herbert von Karajan (1974) (EMI)
Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament)
Fritz Reiner (RCA)
Sir Thomas Beecham (1958) (EMI)

Further listening: Herbert von Karajan (1972) (Testament), Herbert von Karajan (1985) (Testament), Herbert von Karajan (1959) (DG), Herbert von Karajan (1985) (DG), Willem Mengelberg (1941) (Naxos, Dutton, Teldec, Arkadia), Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser), Richard Strauss (1941) (Dutton, DG, Dante Lys, Koch), Arturo Toscanini (1941) (Music & Arts), Sir Thomas Beecham (1947) (Testament), Sir John Barbirolli (EMI), Karl Böhm (1973) (Orfeo), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), Daniel Barenboim (Erato), Herbert Blomstedt (Denon), Zubin Mehta (1968) (Decca), Bernard Haitink (Philips), Karl Böhm (1957) (DG), Georg Solti (Decca)

*Macbeth*

Rudolf Kempe (EMI) ◄

*Metamorphosen*

Otto Klemperer (EMI) ◄
Herbert von Karajan (1969) (DG)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (DG, Music & Arts, Tahra, Dante Lys)
Rudolf Kempe (EMI)
Herbert von Karajan (1980) (DG)

Further listening: Herbert von Karajan (1947) (EMI), James Levine (DG); Sir John Barbirolli (EMI); Richard Stamp (Virgin); Iona Brown (Chandos), Esa-Pekka Salonen (Sony); Andre Previn (Philips); Neeme Järvi (Chandos); Neville Marriner (Decca); Emmanuel Krivine (Denon); Herbert Blomstedt (Denon)

*Sinfonia domestica*

Wilhelm Furtwängler (Berlin PO, DG) ♫
Fritz Reiner (RCA) ◄
George Szell (Sony)
Herbert von Karajan (EMI)

Further listening: Clemens Krauss (Decca, Testament), Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser), Carl Schuricht (Preiser), Zubin Mehta (RCA), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), Zubin Mehta (Decca), Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI), Andre Previn (DG)

*Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche*

Wilhelm Furtwängler (1943) (Berlin PO, DG, Music & Arts)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1954) (EMI) ◄
Clemens Krauss (1950) (Decca, Testament)
Serge Koussevitzky (Dutton, Preiser)
George Szell (Sony)

Further listening: Clemens Krauss (1947) (Dutton), Herbert von Karajan (1951) (EMI, Testament), Georg Solti (1972) (Decca), Jascha Horenstein (Vox), Herbert von Karajan (1959) (Decca), Leopold Stokowski (Everest), Fritz Reiner (Decca), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), Richard Strauss (1929) (Dutton, DG), Bernard Haitink (Philips), Herbert von Karajan (1973) (DG), Arturo Toscanini (1949) (Music & Arts), Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser), Herbert von Karajan (1987) (DG), Lorin Maazel (RCA), Otto Klemperer (EMI), Arturo Toscanini (1952) (RCA), Claudio Abbado (DG), Herbert Blomstedt (Decca)

*Tod und Verklärung*

Herbert von Karajan (1972) (DG) ◄
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1950) (EMI)
George Szell (Sony)
Richard Strauss (1944) (Preiser)
Pierre Monteux (1960) (RCA)
Clemens Krauss (Dutton)

Further listening: Herbert von Karajan (1953) (EMI, Testament), Arturo Toscanini (1938) (Music & Arts, Hunt), Richard Strauss (1926) (DG), Hans Knappertsbusch (1956) (Testament), Victor de Sabata (1949) (DG), Leopold Stokowski (1934) (RCA), Fritz Reiner (1956) (Decca), Jascha Horenstein (Vox), Rudolf Kempe (EMI), Arturo Toscanini (1950) (RCA), Christoph von Dohnányi (Decca), Fritz Reiner (1950) (RCA), Arturo Toscanini (1942) (RCA, IDIS), Otto Klemperer (EMI), Herbert von Karajan (1983) (DG), Lorin Maazel (Decca), Hans Knappertsbusch (1962) (Altus, King), Guido Cantelli (ASdisc), Giuseppe Sinopoli (DG), Lorin Maazel (RCA), Klaus Tennstedt (EMI), Eduardo Mata (RCA), Herbert Blomstedt (Decca), Claudio Abbado (DG), Neeme Järvi (Chandos)


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## Knorf

Nice overview. It gives me a couple ideas for recordings to investigate that I don't know. Thanks!


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## Merl

I like what most have recommended here (and love Kempe's Strauss, in particular) but a special shout out for Mehta and Blomstedt. and the newer ones below too. Jansons is particularly good and Roth's new series of Strauss is really interesting too.


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## Eclectic Al

I am only interested in 4 of these: Also, Tod, Met and Alp. I will check out your recommendations on these BH. Life's short and these plus the 4 Last Songs largely satisfy my Straussian appetite.


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## Gray Bean

Yes, indeed. I too have enjoyed the Roth series.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Eclectic Al said:


> I am only interested in 4 of these: Also, Tod, Met and Alp. I will check out your recommendations on these BH. Life's short and these plus the 4 Last Songs largely satisfy my Straussian appetite.


Can't argue with the above except to say that Ormandy's Heldenleben, Szell's Don Juan, and Reiner's Sinfonia domestica are really great and worth a listen.


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## Merl

This is also an excellent disc that I'd recommend wholeheartedly. I'm a sucker for older Strauss recordings and approached this one with trepidation as Stenz's recordings tend to be hit and miss affairs (his Mahler being a case in point) but he has a great love and admiration of Strauss's music and studied Strauss's scores extensively before recording this disc. As usual the OEHMS recorded sound is demonstration class and it's nice that Stenz recorded this with the Gürzenich-Orchester Köln, who were the first orchestra to ever perform these works. It's an exceptionally well done disc and the Don Quixote is amongst my favourites. Check it out. It may surprise you. Orchestral balances are superb, btw.


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## Gray Bean

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Can't argue with the above except to say that Ormandy's Heldenleben, Szell's Don Juan, and Reiner's Sinfonia domestica are really great and worth a listen.


The oboe soloist in Szell's Don Juan is wonderful. I've always loved that CD: Til, Tod and Don


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## Brahmsianhorn

Gray Bean said:


> The oboe soloist in Szell's Don Juan is wonderful. I've always loved that CD: Til, Tod and Don


My reaction as well, as I stated a few pages back! The same soloist (I assume) is likewise wonderful on his Tod und Verklarung.


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## Knorf

Gray Bean said:


> The oboe soloist in Szell's Don Juan is wonderful. I've always loved that CD: Til, Tod and Don


That would have been Marc Lifschey, I believe.


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## Gray Bean

Knorf said:


> That would have been Marc Lifschey, I believe.


You are right...and Myron Bloom on first horn.


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## flamencosketches

I ordered the Ormandy Heldenleben/Szell Don Juan CD. Excited, even though I'm now realizing I already have other recordings of all those works. Oh well. I only have about 4 Strauss CDs in my whole collection, and I love his music, so any more is appreciated.


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## mahlernerd

Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t like to be this way, but when I first get into new works, I tend to want more modern recordings with the best sound quality. While the interpretations of these conductors may be good, I feel like the sound quality is a bit lacking, while it may not be the worst. Are there any recordings with great sound from, say, 1985- ? Thanks again to everyone for the recommendations!


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## Knorf

All of the Karajan/Berlin Strauss recordings have great sound (even the 1959 Heldenleben), especially in the Blu-ray Audio special edition, as do the Kempe/Vienna recordings in the Warner box.


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## Brahmsianhorn

You'd be surprised how often recordings as far back as even the 50s sound better than some from the 80s or 90s. I'll stick in this regard with the five recordings I recommended yesterday with the possible exception of the Ormandy/Szell disc, in which case you have Don Juan and Till already with Karajan and can get this Ein Heldenleben for slightly better sound than the Ormandy:


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## Simplicissimus

mahlernerd said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I don't like to be this way, but when I first get into new works, I tend to want more modern recordings with the best sound quality. While the interpretations of these conductors may be good, I feel like the sound quality is a bit lacking, while it may not be the worst. Are there any recordings with great sound from, say, 1985- ? Thanks again to everyone for the recommendations!


The Sawallisch/Philadelphia set I cited earlier were recorded 1993-1996 and the stereo sound quality is superb. The Reiner/CSO recordings of Op. 53 and Op. 60 from 1956 are Living Stereo with great left, center, and right miking onto Ampex 3-track 1/2 inch tape at 30 ips and I have the digitally remastered SACD, which has absolutely stunning hi-def three-channel sound.


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## Gray Bean

mahlernerd said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I don't like to be this way, but when I first get into new works, I tend to want more modern recordings with the best sound quality. While the interpretations of these conductors may be good, I feel like the sound quality is a bit lacking, while it may not be the worst. Are there any recordings with great sound from, say, 1985- ? Thanks again to everyone for the recommendations!


I'd go with Karajan on DG from the 80's. Incredible Also Sprach. And Jarvi/Scottish National Orchestra on Chandos. Raw at times but worth a listen. Chandos sound is great. And as I said, the orchestra is wild and wooly. Especially the horns!


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## Brahmsianhorn

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^I've gotta give it to ya...you are one patient listener! I don't think I would be able to listen to as much Strauss as you have without losing my mind! Really helpful recommendations though. Not quite on the thread topic, but do you have any Four Last Songs recommendations?


Well, I actually did make some time yesterday to take in the 6 most acclaimed recordings of which I am aware. I wish I had the stamina to take in more than that.

The big surprise was despite my decades long allegiance to the 1966 Schwarzkopf/Szell, I came away yesterday more impressed with her 1953 recording with Ackermann. The faster tempos had turned me off before despite her obviously being in better voice, but in comparison yesterday I found it more engaging than with Szell. She is simply unmatched here, and I am not even the biggest Schwarzkopf fan. Every song is alive. The Szell is a more mellow, controlled account, and there is a special ethereal beauty to the final song. But I have to go now with the earlier account as her ideal version.

Flagstad/Furtwangler is the live premiere of the work, and there is an unmatched gravitas right from the beginning. The sound is atrocious, and only the most dedicated connoisseurs will be able to bear it. Flagstad is wonderful voice, though I still think Schwarzkopf has the more passionate identification with the text. And of course Furtwangler lends incomparable authority from the podium. The final song is particularly moving.

Della Casa's 50s version with Bohm is cut from the same cloth as Schwarzkopf, with even a more consistently beautiful tone and similar dedication to the meaning of each song. Bohm's direction, however, I found to be comparatively matter of fact.

Norman/Masur is a modern day classic. I will admit that beautifully sumptuous as it is, I found it somewhat less compelling on direct comparison with the past greats, the main exception being a uniquely poignant version of the final song, where Masur paces it perfectly. Still, it remains an excellent modern choice, particularly as a "big voice" alternative, harkening back to the qualities Flagstad brought to the premiere.

That leaves Janowitz/Karajan. Unfortunately this recording does not for me rise to the exalted heights of the coupled Tod und Verklarung/Metamorphosen. All the emphasis is on beauty and sound. Janowitz is pretty faceless as an interpreter. I suppose it is a case of whether you want to just "hear" the songs as opposed to truly experiencing them. After listening to the other versions, I couldn't really respond to this one at all except to simply admire the sounds it produced.

Whew, that's enough Strauss for now.

Wait....opera! Took in Arabella last night. Della Casa/Solti is a slam dunk. Ordered it immediately.

I have all the other operas, and we'll see if I need to add any. Solti's Elektra and Salome are probably going to be on order soon, much as I enjoy the older versions on my shelf from Mitropoulos and Krauss.

I know I do not have the stamina to take in several versions of each opera as I did with the tone poems, but you never know. :devil:


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## wkasimer

Brahmsianhorn said:


> That leaves Janowitz/Karajan. Unfortunately this recording does not for me rise to the exalted heights of the coupled Tod und Verklarung/Metamorphosen. All the emphasis is on beauty and sound. Janowitz is pretty faceless as an interpreter. I suppose it is a case of whether you want to just "hear" the songs as opposed to truly experiencing them. After listening to the other versions, I couldn't really respond to this one at all except to simply admire the sounds it produced.


Last time I listened, I preferred Karajan's second recording with Anna Tomowa-Sintow to the earlier Janowitz recording. Janowitz isn't helped by a relatively opaque acoustic; I think that she actually sounds better on her recording with Haitink, which is, unfortunately, too fast for my taste.

My favorites remain Popp/Tennstedt, Jurinac/Busch, Isokoski/Janowski, and Della Casa/Böhm. I'd include Flagstad/Furtwängler if the sound were passable, but it really isn't.


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## Knorf

For the Four Last Songs, Karajan/Janowitz isn't my favorite either. But I'm not sure I have one.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Holy cow, the Levine BPO Metamorphosen is amazing! I didn't want to put my survey on hold, but I couldn't find an online recording anywhere and had to wait until it finally arrived in the mail today to finally hear it. wkasimir you really nailed it on this piece as your other recommendation, Klemperer, quickly shot up to the top of my recs for this beautiful work. This one is right up there with it! It is very slow and declamatory a la Karajan but in a less stagy, more pathos laden way.


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## Merl

If sound is a key factor (and if no one else has mentioned them) then give Luisi's very nice Strauss discs a go. His Don Quixote is possibly the worst performance (but even that's not bad) but eveything else is very impressive and they were all issued on SACDs. The recorded string sound is captivating, tbh. These are easily recommendable and you get to hear the fabulous Dresden Staatskapelle in state of the art sound.









Bychkov's live Heldenleben is always worth a spin too but make sure you turn your volume control down or you'll get complaints from the neighbours. It's a rather dynamic recording. Haha.


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## Merl

How could I forget about these beauties.? All of these are top of the shop and got equally brilliant reviews too. Honeck has done a great job in Pittsburgh. Add to the great performances state of the art sound and you've got a trio of belter.


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## Heck148

I heard a good "Tod und Verklarung" - Celibidache/MunichPO...
Live performance, well done...Celi achieved generally good flow and drama, good attention to detail (always desirable with R. Strauss). His "Death" isn't quite the relentless savage beast depicted by Reiner, but still had plenty of power...the loud parts well defined, without smudging or covering important entrances. After death claims its victim, the Transfiguration music was perhaps too slow...things bogged down a bit...also..too loud in the accompaniment- the sustained notes, esp in horns, tended to cover up the low register, soft entrances of the gradually building climax...remember, this was live performance, so recording balances sometimes go astray...final climax was very good...powerful and well-executed..
Excellent recording, not quite up to Reiner's stunning winners with RCASO and VPO, but still highly recommended.


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## Gray Bean

For the Four Last Songs in modern sound I’ll go with Popp/Tennstedt or Masur/Norman. I know this may be heresy, but I’ve never warmed to Janowitz or Schwarzkopf. In fact, the Norman performance is, IMO, some of the most glorious singing ever recorded and Masur outdoes himself. Wonderful!


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## Allegro Con Brio

For the Four Last Songs it’s Norman/Masur for me. Thrilling, soaring, heartbreaking, autumnal. I also enjoy Schwarzkopf/Szell and the newest release by Lise Davidsen for her incredibly powerful voice. I don’t speak German so I can’t comment on being sensitive to the text, etc. I like Janowitz’s voice a lot but as others have mentioned the smallest something seems missing from that performance.


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## Simplicissimus

For the Vierte Letzte Lieder, my favorite is Lisa Della Casa with Böhm/VPO. It’s sweet, melancholy, but not overly dramatic. The new Lise Davidsen recording that I’ve been listening to on streaming has incredible sound, but I find it too operatic and almost OTT. I’m very curious about the Sawallisch/Philadelphia 1996 recording with Barbara Hendricks, but I haven’t been able to listen to it... not available on my service. I might need to buy the CD, which would plus up my pretty good collection of Sawallisch doing Strauss.


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## Brahmsianhorn

I've been listening to Strauss operas lately, though only concentrating on widely recommended versions as I don't have the time for a complete survey. 

I loved the Della Casa/Solti Arabella and purchased it immediately upon hearing it online. Karajan's 1954 Ariadne auf Naxos with Schwarzkopf/Seefried/Streich is one I've owned for awhile, and it is exquisitely beautiful. Reining/Seefried/Bohm from 1944 is also very good, boasting an excellent cast. Something about this opera makes me think of Meistersinger. 

I finally purchased a pair of famous Nilsson/Solti recordings: Elektra and Salome. Both are electric. I also like the Borkh/Mitropoulos Elektra, a live 1958 performance from Salzburg. The Salome from Behrens/Karajan had nice moments, but I prefer Caballe/Leinsdorf as the proverbial silkier, sensual alternative to the Solti.

However, the opera recording that most blew me away was the Lyuba Welitsch/Reiner live Salome at the Met from 1949. This is just riveting from beginning to end, transcending the obvious shortcomings of the recording quality. A great performance.

I plan on listening to Capriccio (Schwarzkopf/Sawallisch) and Die Frau ohne Schatten (Bohm '55 and Solti) before the week's end, and then I'll end with the three acclaimed Rosenkavaliers on my shelf - Lehmann/Schumann/Heger, Reining/Jurinac/Kleiber, and Schwarzkopf/Ludwig/Karajan.

At that point I think I will have tapped out on Strauss for the time being!


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## wkasimer

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Karajan's 1954 Ariadne auf Naxos with Schwarzkopf/Seefried/Streich is one I've owned for awhile, and it is exquisitely beautiful.


I love Seefried and Streich in this (and Karajan's conducting), but I have a Schwarzkopf allergy, and find Schock's squeezed production rather unpleasant here. I'm much happier with the Kempe recording as a complete performance.



> I finally purchased a pair of famous Nilsson/Solti recordings: Elektra and Salome. Both are electric.


Solti's Salome is over the top, which works for this opera. I've never quite gotten a handle on Elektra, which always strikes me as 90 or so minutes of screaming.

T


> he Salome from Behrens/Karajan had nice moments, but I prefer Caballe/Leinsdorf as the proverbial silkier, sensual alternative to the Solti.


Those are two of my favorites, along with Sinopoli's, which features Studer and Terfel early in their primes.



> However, the opera recording that most blew me away was the Lyuba Welitsch/Reiner live Salome at the Met from 1949. This is just riveting from beginning to end, transcending the obvious shortcomings of the recording quality. A great performance.


You should certainly listen to this. I believe that it's from a radio broadcast with von Matacic conducting, in 1944:


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## Simplicissimus

^ Haha, I like that description of _Elektra_, it is my take on it exactly. Of Strauss's operas that I know pretty well, I do like _Ariadne auf Naxos_, _der Rosenkavalier_, _die Frau ohne Schatten_, _Salome_, _Arabella_, and _Intermezzo_.

I have to assume that _Ariadne auf Naxos_ is a popular opera based on how many good recordings of it are readily available. I have one CD recording of Ariadne auf Naxos in my collection, which I acquired after consideration of a number of performances. I am very happy with it and commend it to anyone who likes this opera. Edita Gruberova and Walter Berry are wonderful. I tend to like Sawallisch's versions of Strauss operas.


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## geralmar

Not a recommendation; but a spectacular wallow:


1983

I played it at my house warming (condominium, actually) until a guest asked that I turn it down.

My "imprint" is the 1964 Ormandy, which I thought Kubrick should have used in "2001" instead of the Karajan/VPO. I've grown up since then.



A local AM radio station used "Sunrise" as its midnight sign off theme, which is how I discovered the work. It was infrequent on records until used in "2001".


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## Brahmsianhorn

wkasimer said:


> I love Seefried and Streich in this (and Karajan's conducting), but I have a Schwarzkopf allergy, and find Schock's squeezed production rather unpleasant here. I'm much happier with the Kempe recording as a complete performance.


I really wish you would stop this. I listened to the Kempe Ariadne last night and absolutely loved it. I am purchasing way too much Strauss now. At this rate my stimulus check will be all spent by the end of the summer.


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## wkasimer

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I really wish you would stop this. I listened to the Kempe Ariadne last night and absolutely loved it.


While there are things that I like better on other recordings - e.g. Heppner's Bacchus, the Ariadnes of Norman, Tomowa-Sintow, and Margaret Price - the Kempe is, for me, the best complete performance on record.


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## Eclectic Al

I have the Kempe complete Strauss orchestral set arriving on Wednesday. Fingers crossed for excellence.


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## Knorf

Eclectic Al said:


> I have the Kempe complete Strauss orchestral set arriving on Wednesday. Fingers crossed for excellence.


It's some of the best Strauss available!
FYI, it's not _quite_ the complete orchestra music by Strauss, but it's close.


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## Alfacharger

Eclectic Al said:


> I have the Kempe complete Strauss orchestral set arriving on Wednesday. Fingers crossed for excellence.


I received my copy last week. You won't be disappointed. I also have the Zinman, Tonhalle Orchestra so called complete recording along with others.

"Solti's Salome is over the top, which works for this opera. I've never quite gotten a handle on Elektra, which always strikes me as 90 or so minutes of screaming."

I think the Ozawa BSO recording cover art matches your description.


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## Gray Bean

Eclectic Al said:


> I have the Kempe complete Strauss orchestral set arriving on Wednesday. Fingers crossed for excellence.


You'll enjoy the Kemp's. It's been in my library for years.


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## Brahmsianhorn

With the exception of Daphne, I've managed to get through hearing enough Strauss operas now to call it a year. 

The 1955 Bohm Die Frau ohne Schatten on Decca is one of the best Strauss opera recordings I've heard, vividly recorded and inspired such that it sounds like a live performance. Rysanek and Schoffler are standouts among the stellar cast. This really is one to live with, but it's such a great opera that I made room on my shelf also for the live Karajan from 1964 and the Solti, both bringing plenty of beauty and excitement, Karajan with the better cast and Solti the most ideal sound. I stopped short of purchasing the Sawallisch, but that one is also very recommendable, a little more subdued but very beautiful.

Then I came to Der Rosenkavalier. I started with the obvious, Schwarzkopf/Karajan. It is a very beautiful recording, particularly in the final trio. I do think it is a bit overrated, a bit too smooth and subdued for such a light and engaging opera, but the singing is great. I have both the stereo and mono and have to admit I prefer the extra vividness of the voices of the mono. Kleiber features just as recommendable a cast, but there is more energy from the conductor which worked better for me. Even better is a hard to find live 1956 Kempe featuring an ideal cast of Della Casa-Stevens-Guden-Edelmann. The 1930s Lehmann/Schumann conducted by Heger includes barely half the opera, but it is a valuable document of creamy, golden age Strauss singing.

I mentioned the Nilsson/Solti Elektra earlier. As good as it is, it is far from the final word and I ended up burning another hole in my pocket book. Pauly/Rodzinski from the 30s will arrive hopefully soon. I have only been able to sample excerpts, but Rose Pauly sounds like she was to Elektra what Lyuba Welitsch was to Salome, just incredibly fierce and vocally unhinged (in a good way). I have a couple of Inge Borkhs, and I can't decide which I like best. The studio recording with Bohm is in my view by the narrowest of margins preferable to the Nilsson/Solti as a modern sound performance to live with. There is a greater fullness in both Borkh's voice and Bohm's orchestral contribution, even if it doesn't have the accented sharpness of Solti. And Bohm also has Fischer-Dieskau's fantastic Orest. However, the best Orest I heard was Hotter in what is maybe my favorite Elektra now, the 1953 Kraus with Astrid Varnay an astounding full-bodied Elektra, with seemingly no limit to her vocal power. Finally, the second of my Borkhs is the live 1957 Salzburg conducted by Mitropolous. The distant recording is a minus, but she is in better voice and the conducting is, pardon the pun, electric.

Whew! That's a lot of Strauss. I'll give a listen to the Reining/Bohm and Guden/Bohm Daphne's and then hopefully find a new hobby. Thanks OP for getting me onto this! 

I relistened to my playlist of the orchestral works, and this is my current top 10 Strauss orchestral recordings (among those in decent sound):

1. Tod und Verklarung - Karajan 70s
2. Metamorphosen - Klemperer
3. Till Eulenspiegel - Furtwangler (EMI)
4. Don Quixote - Fournier/Krauss
5. Eine Alpensinfonie - Kempe
6. Ein Heldenleben - Ormandy
7. Also sprach Zarathustra - Karajan 70s
8. Tod und Verklarung - Szell
9. Sinfonia domestica - Reiner
10. Don Juan - Szell

Honorable mention: Don Quixote - Fournier/Szell, Ein Heldenleben - Karajan (EMI), Tod und Verklarung - Furtwangler, Metamorphosen - Kempe/Karajan 70s, Sinfonia domestica - Szell/Karajan (EMI)

.


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## Knorf

God's work, Brahmsianhorn. 

Or Cthulhu's, if you prefer.

(Nice overview! Among the Strauss opera recordings I know, which are most of those you mentioned, I find myself entirely in agreement.)


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## Simplicissimus

Minority report. A week ago I received the 6-CD set by Sebastian Weigle and the Frankfurter Opern- und Museumorchester (Oehms Classics). I've been listening to it constantly. Incredibly great performances of the Strauss Tondichtungen, IMO. Also excellent audio engineering and sound quality.

The recording of _Ein Heldenleben_ is from 2001, but all the rest are from 2013 to 2018. All of the recordings are of live performances in the Frankfurt Alte Oper, which is a very good, if not quite the best, venue for such recordings. The playing is top notch and I find that I like the palpable excitement of the live performances.

I'll admit that I'm biased in favor of Weigle and this ensemble because I spend a lot of time in Frankfurt am Main and have been attending their orchestra and opera performances since 2009. But I can in good conscience recommend these recordings unequivocally. They're marvelously fresh and idiomatic.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Well, I got through the generally recommended Daphne recording, the 1964 DG Gueden/Bohm, and came away thinking I can do without this opera on my shelf. Then I made the mistake of hearing the 1944 Reining/Bohm, which just bowled me over. This is one of the greatest Strauss recordings I've heard. Just amazing singing and overall performance from all concerned. I've been moving box sets to the top of the shelf to make room for all this Strauss!

I flip-flopped again on the Four Last Songs. Gotta go back to my old standard of Schwarzkopf/Szell for top rec. It's just so beautifully musical. I would not appreciate these songs on the level I do had I not known this recording. Also sampled several Lieder discs. The biggest surprise was Barbara Bonney, the earlier recital with Geoffrey Parsons. Not that I haven't always been a fan, but she is so exquisite on this disc that I have no hesitation in calling it a top choice. In general I do think I prefer sopranos for Strauss songs.

So this is my essential Strauss vocal/opera list. I have not heard all the recordings listed under further listening. Only so much my brain can handle.

◄ = top recommendation in good sound
♫ = great all time performance

*Lieder*

Kirsten Flagstad/Edwin McArthur (selections, inc. _Allerseelen_) (Nimbus) ♫
Heinrich Schlusnus/Franz Rupp (selections, inc. _Morgen, Zueignung, Ständchen_) (Dutton, Preiser) 
Lotte Lehmann/Frieder Weissmann (selections, inc. _Morgen, Ständchen_) (EMI)
Barbara Bonney/Geoffrey Parsons (selections, inc. _Allerseelen, Morgen, Ständchen_) (DG) ◄
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/George Szell (selections, inc. _Morgen, Zueignung_) (EMI)
Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Gerald Moore (complete) (EMI)

Further listening: Heinrich Schlusnus/Richard Strauss (selections, inc. _Zueignung_) (Nimbus, DG), Elisabeth Schumann/Lawrence Collingwood (selections, inc. _Morgen, Ständchen_) (EMI), Lisa Della Casa/Arpád Sándor (recital) (RCA), Jessye Norman/Kurt Masur (selections, inc. _Morgen, Zueignung_) (Philips), Jessye Norman/Geoffrey Parsons (recital) (Philips), Lucia Popp/Wolfgang Sawallisch (recital) (EMI), Brigitte Fassbaender/Irwin Gage (recital) (DG), Gerard Souzay/Dalton Baldwin (recital) (Philips, Decca), Barbara Bonney/Malcolm Martineau (Decca), Jonas Kaufmann/Helmuth Deutsch (recital) (Harmonia Mundi), Irmgard Seefried/Erik Werba (selections, inc. _Allerseelen, Morgen, Ständchen_) (DG), Margaret Price/Wolfgang Sawallisch (recital) (EMI), Barbara Hendricks/Wolfgang Sawallisch, Ralk Gothoni (EMI)

*Four Last Songs*

Kirsten Flagstad/Wilhelm Furtwängler (Testament, Gebhardt, Sinax) ♫
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/George Szell (EMI) ◄
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Otto Ackermann (EMI)
Lisa della Casa/Karl Böhm (Decca)
Jessye Norman/Kurt Masur (Philips)
Gundula Janowitz/Herbert von Karajan (DG)

Further listening: Sena Jurinac/Fritz Busch (EMI), Lucia Popp/Klaus Tennstedt (EMI), Barbara Hendricks/Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI), Renee Fleming/Christian Thielemann (Decca), Cheryl Studer/Giuseppe Sinopoli (DG), Arleen Augér/André Previn (Telarc)

*Arabella*

Lisa della Casa/Georg Solti (Decca)

Further listening: Lisa della Casa/Joseph Keiberth (DG)

*Ariadne auf Naxos*

Maria Reining/Max Lorenz/Irmgard Seefried/Karl Böhm (1944) (Preiser, Myto)
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Rudolf Schock/Irmgard Seefried/Herbert von Karajan (EMI) ◄
Gundula Janowitz/James King/Teresa Zylis-Gara/Rudolf Kempe (EMI)

Further Listening: Lisa Della Casa/Rudolf Schock/Irmgard Seefried/Karl Böhm (DG), Gundula Janowitz/Agnes Baltsa/James King/ Karl Böhm (1976) (Orfeo), Viorica Ursuleac/Helge Roswaenge/Erna Berger/Clemens Krauss (Preiser)

*Capriccio*

Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI)

Further listening: Gundula Janowitz/Karl Böhm (DG)

*Daphne*

Maria Reining/Anton Dermota/Karl Friedrich/Karl Böhm (Myto, Preiser, Walhall) ♫
Hilde Gueden/Fritz Wunderlich/James King/Karl Böhm (DG) ◄

Further listening: Lucia Popp/Peter Schreier/Reiner Goldberg/Bernard Haitink (EMI), Renée Fleming/Michael Schade/Johan Botha/Semyon Bychkov (Decca)

*Elektra*

Rose Pauly/Enid Szánthó/Charlotte Boerner/Artur Rodzinsky (Eklipse, Immortal Performances) ♫
Astrid Varnay/Res Fischer/Leonie Rysanek/Richard Kraus (Gala, Koch, Capriccio)
Inge Borkh/Jean Madeira/Lisa della Casa/Dmitri Mitropoulos (1957) (Orfeo)
Inge Borkh/Jean Madeira/Marianne Schech/Karl Böhm (DG) ◄
Birgit Nilsson/Regina Resnik/Marie Collier/Georg Solti (Decca)

Further listening: Erna Schlüter/Gusta Hammer/Annalies Kupper/Eugen Jochum (Membran, Arkadia), Astrid Varnay/Elisabeth Höngen/Walburga Wegner/Fritz Reiner (Guild, Archipel), Anny Konetzni/Martha Mödl/Danizia Illitsch/Dmitri Mitropoulos (1951) (Hommage), Astrid Varnay/Martha Mödl/Hildegard Hillebrecht/Herbert von Karajan (Orfeo), Alessandra Marc/Hannah Schwarz/Deborah Voigt/Giuseppe Sinopoli (DG), Hildegard Behrens/Christa Ludwig/Nadine Secunde/Seiji Ozawa (Decca), Eva Marton/Marjana Lipovšek/Cheryl Studer/Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI)

*Die Frau ohne Schatten*

Leonie Rysanek/Hans Hopf/Karl Böhm (1955) (Decca) ◄
Leonie Rysanek/Jess Thomas/Herbert von Karajan (DG, Nuova Era, Hunt)
Hildegard Behrens/Placido Domingo/Sir Georg Solti (Decca)
Cheryl Studer/Rene Kollo/Wolfgang Sawallisch (EMI)

Further listening: Leonie Rysanek/Hans Hopf/Karl Böhm (live 1955) (Orfeo), Leonie Rysanek/James King/Karl Böhm (1974) (Opera D'Oro), Gundula Janowitz/Jess Thomas/Herbert von Karajan (Gala), Leonie Rysanek/James King/Karl Böhm (1977) (DG), Ingrid Bjoner/Jess Thomas/Joseph Keilberth (DG), Deborah Voigt/Ben Heppner/Giuseppe Sinopoli (Teldec)

*Der Rosenkavalier*

Lotte Lehmann/Elisabeth Schumann/Robert Heger (abridged) (EMI, Naxos, Pearl) ♫
Lisa Della Casa/Risë Stevens/Rudolf Kempe (1956) (Walhall)
Maria Reining/Sena Jurinac/Erich Kleiber (Decca, Naxos)
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Christa Ludwig/Herbert von Karajan (mono or stereo) (1956) (EMI) ◄
Régine Crespin/Yvonne Minton/Georg Solti (Decca)

Further listening: Maria Reining/Lisa Della Casa/Clemens Krauss (1953) (Guild, Melodram), Maria Reining/Sena Jurinac/Hans Knappertsbusch (RCA, Golden Melodram), Margarete Bäumer/Tiana Lemnitz/Rudolf Kempe (Profil, Gala), Elisabeth Schwarzkopf/Sena Jurinac/Georg Solti (Pristine), Eleanor Steber/Risë Stevens/Fritz Reiner (Naxos, Arlecchino, Dante Lys), Lisa Della Casa/Sena Jurinac/Herbert von Karajan (1960) (DG, Gala), Christa Ludwig/Tatiana Troyanos/Karl Böhm (DG), Kiri Te Kanawa/Anne Sofie von Otter/Bernard Haitink (EMI), Christa Ludwig/Gwyneth Jones/Leonard Bernstein (Sony), Renée Fleming/Sophi Koch/Christian Thielemann (Decca)

*Salome*

Ljuba Welitsch/Fritz Reiner (1949) (Gebhardt, Guild) ♫
Birgit Nilsson/Georg Solti (Decca) ◄
Montserrat Caballe/Erich Leinsdorf (RCA)
Christel Goltz/Clemens Krauss (Decca)
Hildegard Behrens/Herbert von Karajan (EMI)

Further listening: Ljuba Welitsch/Fritz Reiner (1952) (Walhall), Inge Borkh/Dmitri Mitropoulos (Living Stage), Christel Goltz/Dmitri Mitropoulos (Walhall)

*Die schweigsame Frau*

Hilde Gueden/Fritz Wunderlich/Karl Böhm (DG)

.


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## Gray Bean

I love that Krauss box set from a few years back.


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## MatthewWeflen

wkasimer said:


> I am almost always disappointed by the sonics of reissues, which rarely show significant improvement, and in some cases (some of BMG's Master Series, most notably) actually sound worse. But the Kempe set is an exception - I had the old generic green box set...
> 
> View attachment 134741
> 
> 
> ...and then bought this one...
> 
> View attachment 134742
> 
> 
> ...and the difference was stunning. These superior transfers have been reissued yet again in this form:
> 
> View attachment 134743


I just acquired the Kempe set in order to fill in the "lesser work" gaps in my Strauss collection. You're so right - the sound is superb!

While I don't think I could live without my Karajan Also Sprach, Alpensinfonie, or Metamorphosen, the Kempe box represents an incredible value at a very high sound/performance quality level.


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## Eclectic Al

MatthewWeflen said:


> I just acquired the Kempe set in order to fill in the "lesser work" gaps in my Strauss collection. You're so right - the sound is superb!
> 
> While I don't think I could live without my Karajan Also Sprach, Alpensinfonie, or Metamorphosen, the Kempe box represents an incredible value at a very high sound/performance quality level.


Got it myself - for similar reasons. Really enjoyed his Tod & V.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Speaking of "lesser" works, I've been sampling some of those now that I finished with the vocal works.

The Kempe Le Bourguois gentillehomme is excellent, appropriately light and charming. I think Reiner's famous version misses this. A little too heavy. Again, I prefer spirit of the music over orchestral display. Best of all IMO is the 1947 Beecham. It sounds like it was written for him. Krauss/VPO are also very good. But for combination of sound and performance I say go for Kempe.

Burleske is a work that I think really needs a good exponent to be interesting. Janis/Reiner is a very exciting, colorful account. Even better is Rudolf Serkin. His version with Ormandy is an excellent choice in good sound, though I marginally prefer the less well-recorded live version with Mitropoulos. Just electric!

I admit I am not a huge fan of the horn or oboe concertos. The oboe concerto is very melodic even though those melodies are not particularly memorable. I liked the De Lancie version the best. Yes, I know there is the obvious history - De Lancie is the American WWII GI who met Strauss and inspired the work's composition - but aside from this and despite De Lancie's old age I found the recording to be warmly affectionate, which is exactly what the piece needs. So, for example, Koch/Karajan and Hollinger/De Waart sound "better" but are less interesting to me. Then again, just the name Lothar Koch is enough to make the Karajan worth hearing (I kid, I kid). It actually is a beautiful recording, more Karajan than Strauss however.

It seemed futile to try to compare other horn concerto recordings to Dennis Brain's, and it certainly proved to be. That said, why are horn concertos always soooo boring? I mean, let's be frank, there is only so much a horn can do!

Anything else? Ah yes, the Violin Sonata. Another piece that really needs a good advocate, and that is Heifetz. But NOT the later recordings where he is closely miked and more going through the motions. His 1934 version with Arpad Sandor is the one which is truly moving and makes this sound like a great work. I'd actually say the modern version which comes closest is Perlman/Ax from 2015. Yes, he still makes great recordings! Chung/Zimerman is another good one, understated but lovely like massage parlor music.


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## Knorf

I quite like the Strauss Horn Concerto recordings with Peter Damm, Kempe and Dresden. I return to them decently often, and enjoy them very them very much.

I certainly dispute that there aren't interesting horn concertos. For one, the horn has a huge pitch range, greater than any other brass instrument by far except perhaps tuba. For another, it also has a greater range of color than any other brass instrument, even without hand stopping. And finally the horn is capable for plenty of jaw-dropping virtuosity. I rather hope to compose a horn concerto of my own someday! I love the horn.

Starting with the Mozart concertos onward, especially when played by the likes of Lowell Greer, I'd argue the horn has been decently well served with concertos. Schumann's _Konzertstück_ for four horns and orchestras is his greatest orchestral piece, in my opinion.

Of course, there's a pretty big gap from the the Classical period top the 20th C., since the Romantic period with the notable exception of Strauss overwhelmingly focused on piano and violin concertos to the exclusion of all other instruments, but when you get into the 20th c., quite a few excellent horn concertos start to appear, such as Hindemith's.

Several horn concertos that I'd call masterpieces have appeared in the past couple decades, namely those by Anders Eliasson, Oliver Knussen, György Ligeti, and Elliott Carter.


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## Merl

Talking of Strauss' Horn Concertos. Try this.


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## Eclectic Al

Brahmsianhorn said:


> ... lovely like massage parlor music.


I wonder if someone needs to start a thread on massage parlor music. Now that would be an interesting genre. :devil:


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## Merl

Eclectic Al said:


> I wonder if someone needs to start a thread on massage parlor music. Now that would be an interesting genre. :devil:


Taking your clothes off seems to be a feature of BHS' posts recently. I'm getting concerned what will come next. In fact, should I rephrase that last sentence?


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## amfortas

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Then I came to Der Rosenkavalier . . . The 1930s Lehmann/Schumann conducted by Heger includes barely half the opera, but it is a valuable document of creamy, golden age Strauss singing.


For a more complete golden age performance, consider this:









Because you clearly need more Strauss.


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## wkasimer

amfortas said:


> For a more complete golden age performance, consider this:
> 
> View attachment 138822
> 
> 
> Because you clearly need more Strauss.


I haven't heard it in a while, but IIRC, it's still cut to shreds.


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## amfortas

wkasimer said:


> I haven't heard it in a while, but IIRC, it's still cut to shreds.


About 151 minutes vs. 1933's 90 minutes, so two-thirds longer. Still not complete, but a significant gain (and a performance well worth hearing).


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## wkasimer

amfortas said:


> About 151 minutes vs. 1933's 90 minutes, so two-thirds longer. Still not complete, but a significant gain (and a performance well worth hearing).


Unfortunately, a lot of that additional time involves Emanuel List.


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## amfortas

wkasimer said:


> Unfortunately, a lot of that additional time involves Emanuel List.


I haven't listened in a while. I don't recall disliking List, but I do recall liking the young Risë Stevens's Octavian very much.

Anyway, people can hear the whole performance for themselves on YouTube before deciding if they want to purchase (hopefully in a better remastering).


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## flamencosketches

I'm starting to realize that Eugene Ormandy was a very, very good Strauss conductor. I have his Heldenleben, Zarathustra & Don Quixote all in Philadelphia. Each has become a favorite. I think generally I prefer American orchestras over European ones in Strauss, though in all fairness I have yet to give the Kempe/Dresden stuff a real chance.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> I think generally I prefer American orchestras over European ones in Strauss, though in all fairness I have yet to give the Kempe/Dresden stuff a real chance.


Karajan/Berlin is really not to be missed in Richard Strauss (for a European ensemble). If you haven't auditioned those recordings, yet. But yes, the Kempe is extremely worthwhile.


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## Brahmsianhorn

Knorf said:


> Karajan/Berlin is really not to be missed in Richard Strauss (for a European ensemble).


Thanks, I'll check them out


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## NightHawk

Fritz Reiner Fritz Reiner Fritz Reiner


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> Karajan/Berlin is really not to be missed in Richard Strauss (for a European ensemble). If you haven't auditioned those recordings, yet. But yes, the Kempe is extremely worthwhile.


I like a couple of Karajan Strauss recordings, namely Tod und Verklärung, but I wasn't super impressed with his Zarathustra, Metamorphosen, Till Eulenspiegel, or Don Juan. I haven't written him off yet though and I'm not even close to culling any of my Karajan Strauss stuff, I do consider it very good. I just prefer others. Disclaimer: I do consider myself a big fan of Karajan in quite a bit of other repertoire.

I'm looking at Karajan's digital Alpine Symphony. I don't have a recording of the work. Any others worthy of consideration?


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## Brahmsianhorn

flamencosketches said:


> I like a couple of Karajan Strauss recordings, namely Tod und Verklärung, but I wasn't super impressed with his Zarathustra, Metamorphosen, Till Eulenspiegel, or Don Juan. I haven't written him off yet though and I'm not even close to culling any of my Karajan Strauss stuff, I do consider it very good. I just prefer others. Disclaimer: I do consider myself a big fan of Karajan in quite a bit of other repertoire.
> 
> I'm looking at Karajan's digital Alpine Symphony. I don't have a recording of the work. Any others worthy of consideration?


Go Kempe for Alpine Symphony. Big and beautiful. If you don't want the whole Kempe set (though it's been remastered and is not too expensive) the original Box 3 offers IMO all the best Kempe Strauss - Alpensinfonie, Metamorphosen, Don Quixote, Macbeth and Aus Italien.

You don't like Karajan's 70s Also Sprach? I think it's great, better even than Reiner. One sleeper pick mentioned earlier is Ormandy's last recording on EMI.

I also do like Karajan's Metamorphosen but more the earlier than the later one. Both great though, as are Klemperer (my favorite) and Kempe.


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## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> I'm looking at Karajan's digital Alpine Symphony. I don't have a recording of the work. Any others worthy of consideration?


For Alpine Symphony - HvK is ok, but Kempe/RoyalPO, Barenboim/CSO are preferable, imo.
For ASZ, Reiner and Solti are tops....


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## Brahmsianhorn

Heck148 said:


> For Alpine Symphony - HvK is ok, but Kempe/RoyalPO, Barenboim/CSO are preferable, imo.
> For ASZ, Reiner and Solti are tops....


I am a big fan of Koussevitzky's BSO Also Sprach. He had a flair that I've always admired, for example in Prokofiev. Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of him? He's probably my favorite of all the longtime heads of major American orchestras, next to Stokowski.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> I'm looking at Karajan's digital Alpine Symphony. I don't have a recording of the work. Any others worthy of consideration?


Karajan's _Eine Alpensinfonie_ is widely considered to be one of the best, an assessment I agree with. Kempe is excellent but second to Karajan for me. Those are my top two.


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## flamencosketches

Brahmsianhorn said:


> You don't like Karajan's 70s Also Sprach? I think it's great, better even than Reiner. One sleeper pick mentioned earlier is Ormandy's last recording on EMI.


I didn't dislike it by any means, but I definitely prefer Reiner/Chicago (1954) and think I also prefer Ormandy/Philadelphia (need to give both the Karajan and Ormandy recordings a further listen). I'm keeping all 3, all are worthwhile.

Thanks, everyone, for the Alpensinfonie recs. I'm going to get the big Kempe box at some point but for now just want to stick to individual recordings.


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## Knorf

If you're not allergic to the LSO Live label (some people are, for reasons I cannot fathom *cough* Hurwitz), the Haitink/LSO _Eine Alpensinfonie_ from 2010 is very good, and sonically spectacular.*

*I know I'm required by the Music Critics Guild Requirements For Obligatory Clichés to mention the "unforgiving Barbican acoustic" but that is certainly rubbish in terms of this recording. It sounds great.


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## Heck148

Knorf said:


> If you're not allergic to the LSO Live label (some people are, for reasons I cannot fathom *cough* Hurwitz), the Haitink/LSO _Eine Alpensinfonie_ from 2010 is very good, and sonically spectacular.*


This one sounds interesting!!


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## Knorf

A recording of _Eine Alpensinfonie_ I am keen to hear at some point is Frank Shipway's. The two recordings of Shipway's that I have are Mahler 5 and Shostakovich 10, and both are absolutely superb. Also, Hurwitz hated it. These are all compelling reasons as to why it might be really good!

ETA: here's a competing review to Hurwitz and his litany of calumnies: https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=8161#reviews


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## vincula

I get much joy out of Tennstedt/LSO. Got _Also sprach Zarathustra_, _Don Juan_ & _Tod und Verklärung_ as part of this bargain-priced box full of lollies, as my Aussie friend would say.









Regards,

Vincula


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## Granate

Eine Alpensinfonie - hr-Sinfonieorchester Frankfurt - Andrés Orozco-Estrada - Pentatone 2016

I don't think this is the best recording I can think of the Alpine symphony, but I was really startled listening to the previews on Qobuz and I bought the Hi-Res version of this recording for 3.60€. I'm really happy as I listen to it through the final storm and to find out that it is worth the experience because of the unbeatable sound quality. The orchestra plays really well. Not many can perform this composition. The timbre is really brilliant.

I may prefer performances like Kempe Dresden or Thielemann Vienna. I escaped from my imprint for Karajan in this composition.


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## abaulies

Hello to all! This is my first post . I love this forum, have discovered many.great treasures, and I finally decided to register in order to add my grain of salt and enjoy the conversation.

I just wanted to add one Strauss interpreter I think no one has talked about in this thread: David Zinman!!!

His Strauss complete tone poema set with the Tonhalle is great! His Till stands top of my list, I dare to say number one, and his Don Juan, Heldenleben and, specially the Alpine are all top of the shelve. I only found myself not really engaged in his Zarathustra and I haven't checked out yet the other tone poems. His style is somewhat closer to Kempe, really fresh and clear, in the sense that those parts that might be messy with other conductors, finally make sense under his lead. A really natural flowing view with inmaculate precision but with a bit more use of rubato and sometimes larger tempos than Kempe. For me, a perfect mix. On top of thar, the orchestra is on the best form of their history which was brilliantly recorded capturing the great acoustics of the famous hall.
What do you guys think?

Someone mentioned Jansons. His Rosenkavalier suite with the BRSO is also one of my all time favourite Strauss recordings. Thielemann with VPO and Honeck with Pittsburgh give a good run for the money, but Jansons' lyricism and the magic achieved that night in Munich in that live performance, where every musician was giving their absolute best, is, in my humble opinion, unbeatable.


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## abaulies

I can't seem to find the Ormandy Emi ASZ in CD...


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## wkasimer

Never mind. Wrong recording. I don't think that the EMI version has ever been issued on CD.


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## Brahmsianhorn

wkasimer said:


> Never mind. Wrong recording. I don't think that the EMI version has ever been issued on CD.


It has. Got it on my shelf. Excellent version.


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## Pure Fool

https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...s?utm_source=News-2020-09-25&utm_medium=email


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