# SS 25.01.14 - Rachmaninoff #2



## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

A continuation of the Saturday Symphonies Tradition:

For your listening pleasure this weekend:

*Sergei Rachmaninoff (1873 - 1943)*

Symphony #2 in E Minor, Op. 27

1. Largo - Allegro moderato
2. Allegro molto
3. Adagio
4. Allegro vivace

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Post what recording you are going to listen to giving details of Orchestra / Conductor / Chorus / Soloists etc - Enjoy!


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

This weekend I'll be listening to:

View attachment 33273


Eugene Ormandy & The Philadelphia Orchestra's "Uncut" Recording from 1973.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

My dual standard? (more or less): Ashkenazy/Haitink/Concertgebouw for the sonic punch of the engineering and for the beautiful Concertgebouw strings; and the Kissin/Gergiev/LSO for Kissin's pyrotechnics.


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## realdealblues (Mar 3, 2010)

Marschallin Blair said:


> My dual standard? (more or less): Ashkenazy/Haitink/Concertgebouw for the sonic punch of the engineering and for the beautiful Concertgebouw strings; and the Kissin/Gergiev/LSO for Kissin's pyrotechnics.
> 
> View attachment 33276
> 
> ...


I think you've got the wrong idea or thread.

This is the "Saturday Symphony" thread where each Saturday (or Sunday, we're not picky) TalkClassical Members listen to a Symphony from the 150 Greatest Symphonies list. This week is Rachmaninoff's Symphony #2, not Piano Concerto #2.

You're welcome to pick a recording of the Rachmaninoff's Symphony #2 and listen to it this weekend and then share your thoughts on the work and the recording you chose with us.


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

I'll go with Pletnev and his Russian National Orchestra


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Steinberg/Pittsburgh SO, the _Famous Among Aficionados_ recording (Fine sound). Students of harmony should listen to this work until they get it.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

realdealblues said:


> This weekend I'll be listening to:
> 
> View attachment 33273
> 
> ...


That's the one I have.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw.

And yes, I'm referring to the symphony, not the concerto. I've never liked this one, but I'll give it a listen anyway.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

This one's an absolute beauty.

I'll roll with Pappano and the Orchestra dell'Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia, from last summer's Proms.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

BBC Philharmonic conducted by Edward Downes


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

realdealblues said:


> I think you've got the wrong idea or thread.
> 
> This is the "Saturday Symphony" thread where each Saturday (or Sunday, we're not picky) TalkClassical Members listen to a Symphony from the 150 Greatest Symphonies list. This week is Rachmaninoff's Symphony #2, not Piano Concerto #2.
> 
> You're welcome to pick a recording of the Rachmaninoff's Symphony #2 and listen to it this weekend and then share your thoughts on the work and the recording you chose with us.


Please do excuse my impetuous post brought on by too caffeinated a Gemütlichkeit. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. . . 'Yes,' the Rachmaninov Second SYMPHONY. Sorry.

I love the Svetlanov/Symphony Orchestra of the Russian Federation for its pure majesty; and especially the for the syrupy romantic sweep of the third movement. I love the final climax of the last movement too; its almost like Svetlanov's approaching this climax like its Ein Heldenleben and not Rachmaninov.


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## Doc (Dec 7, 2013)

I'll be listening to Jansons conducting the St. Petersburg Philharmonic.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2014)

Mine will be Slatkin conducting the Detroit Symphony Orchestra - oddly enough, I don't hear gunshots in the background of this recording!!!

But seriously, I love this symphony, and this recording.

I wonder about the love for older conductors and recordings. How much are we imprinted by the first recording we hear of a work? I know there are many recordings that I love, for no reason that I can explain, other than it was the recording that initially made me fall in love with the work, in spite of the fact that I find others that I like better?

In my field of science with immunology, there is the concept of "original sin" where the immune system is biased to respond to a pathogen based on the nature of the very first time it encountered that pathogen, making it less adaptable to mutated versions of that pathogen. Is there a classical music listening "original sin" where we become imprinted by those recordings we first heard? So are people who have been listening to classical music more biased to some of these older recordings primarily because that is what they first heard, even though they will tell you that they were just so much better back in the good old days? Don't get me wrong, there are numerous older recordings, from the early days of stereo and further back into the mono area that I consider masterpieces, so I am not necessarily opposed to the idea that an older recording is the best available.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

BBC Philharmonic & Noseda


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2014)

Incidentally, the Slatkin recording is paired with the wonderful Vocalise - easily one of the most beautiful of Rachmaninoff's works! Highly recommended. And the sound is excellent.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw.
> 
> And yes, I'm referring to the symphony, not the concerto. I've never liked this one, but I'll give it a listen anyway.


There is a Mahler connection you might appreciate: The chorale at the end of the second movement that returns transformed at the end of the finale might have been inspired by Rachmaninoff's then recent exposure to Mahler's Fifth Symphony, a performance in Dresden if my perhaps foggy memory is correct.

Not sure I need to listen to a recording. I know this one really well, first through the cut version (Steinberg and Pittsburgh, which sounds like they were performing Brahms), and then Ormandy and Ashkenazy.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Listening right now to Gennady Rozhdestvensky and the LSO.
By way of synchronicity, I am visiting an old music friend of mine who always listens to this recording on long train journeys. This is my first train journey for almost 7 years. So I can follow his tradition and contribute to this thread simultaneously. 
I've never heard a better performance than this and I don't feel the need to look for one. The pure gut wrenching emotion he pulls out of the orchestra towards the end of the finale is worth the admission price alone. 
Interesting that someone mentioned a Mahler influence, not because I necessarily agree, I've never thought about it, but because some moments pull the same emotional punch that I only get from Mahler. Musical ecstasy!


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Ormandy's Philadelphia Rachmaninoff Symphonies set- the recording that was responsible for my first carousel CD-changer purchase. Symphony #2 is segmented onto two discs.

Since others are choosing this rendition, I'll go with a different option- Previn- London Symphony...

P.S.: @ DrMike- that most casual and some moderate hobbyist-listeners tend to prefer the first version of a work that they hear is relatively well-established. My observation is that this effect is lessened with the increase of one's music knowledge-base.


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## Jeff W (Jan 20, 2014)

I'll also be listening to the Vladimir Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw Orchestra rendition of this one as it is the only one I have in my collection so far.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

To me, this is the most genuinely Romantic symphony ever written. Not even Tchaikovsky could write something so full of lush melodies.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Jeff W said:


> I'll also be listening to the Vladimir Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw Orchestra rendition of this one as it is the only one I have in my collection so far.


The Ashkenazy/Congertgebouw is absolutely wonderful too.


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## AClockworkOrange (May 24, 2012)

Later on tonight, I will be listening to Petrenko & the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic's interpretation of this Symphony:
View attachment 33402


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

EdwardBast said:


> The chorale at the end of the second movement that returns transformed at the end of the finale


This was the first time I ever noticed this. As you say, it's like Mahler 5. A seemingly insignificant section of music that turns out to be the symphony's final, crowning moment.

Also, the sudden crash that starts the middle section of the 2nd movt. still makes me jump if I'm not careful. First time I heard that, I was in bed with the light off, and the music quietened down, and down, and down...then BAM! the crash happens. Frightened the life out of me!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

maestro267 said:


> This was the first time I ever noticed this. As you say, it's like Mahler 5. A seemingly insignificant section of music that turns out to be the symphony's final, crowning moment.


The significance of the relationship is that the scherzo is an unsuccessful attempt to accomplish what the finale eventually achieves. The heroic horn theme opening the scherzo is, accordingly, a key basis for the principal theme of the finale. The scherzo chorale epitomizes the movement's failure to reach the goal. But note that that "seemingly insignificant section of music" derives directly from the opening theme of the symphony, the dark motto introduced in the basses.

It happens that this symphony is one of the most intricately and systematically interwoven works in the symphonic repertoire. Nearly every theme links to several others across and within movements. And every one of these relationships is fraught with significance. This aspect of the piece tends to be missed, however, because all of the themes are so distractingly gorgeous and self-possessed that one doesn't tend to look for intricate patterns of thematic derivation among them.

One great example of this systematic thematic process is the development section of the finale, which begins by quoting the idyllic end of the Adagio. The calm is broken when the only dark passage of the Adagio, the English horn and oboe duet, bursts out as a tense and conflicted allegro. Then fragments of the heroic scherzo are thrown in, followed at last by quotations of the most harrowing music of the first movement. What the finale's development section does, therefore, is to review the whole symphony in encapsulated form in reverse chronological order until it reaches the unresolved problem with which it began - only to dispel all of the ghosts with the recapitulation and crowning final chorale. It is perfect as psychological drama at the same time that it ties together all of the symphony's principal thematic threads.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

^ ^ I'm not going to quote *EdwardBast*'s post, it's right there to read. I just want to draw attention to it again, because it's an excellent exposition of how layers exist in the finest symphonic music. I've long relished the 'things in the depths' of Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra, but have never noticed these depths in Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony, perhaps "because all of the themes are so distractingly gorgeous and self-possessed that one doesn't tend to look for intricate patterns of thematic derivation among them." I do enjoy listening for the harmonies, but that's the extent of my distraction.

Thanks, _EB_. I'm probably not going to dig that deep next time I listen to the music, but I'm happy to know it's there.

:tiphat:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

For *Rachmaninov*: Symphony 2, I'll echo MagneticGhost with LSO/Rozhdestvensky (rec.1988). :tiphat:


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