# Beethoven 'Named' Piano Sonatas



## Triplets

I frequently listen to LvB Piano Sonatas and enjoy every one of them. I wonder if some of the ones that have acquired names are favored inordinately in programming frequency at the expense of their unnamed brethren. For example, is the "Tempest" Sonata superior in any way to the unnamed Op 31/3? I prefer the latter work myself. Or should "Les Adieu " be played more than Op. 7?


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## hpowders

Yeah. Similar to the Haydn named symphonies-played more often and unfairly so at the expense of their unnamed brethren.


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## Cosmos

My two cents: a piece with a nickname is generally more popular because of the romantic notions attached to it (see "Moonlight Sonata" reactions). Also, it's easier to remember a piece by its nickname rather than it's publication info. Publishers did the same thing to Chopin, giving names to his more popular works to attract attention (I'm looking at _you_, "Raindrop" Prelude!)

A lot of my favorite Beethoven sonatas are without names, nos. 11, 13, 19&20, 22, and 30-32. I love the nicknamed ones as well (Moonlight, Pathetique, Tempest, The Hunt, Hammerklavier...), but I feel those with nicknames will always get recognition at the expense of the "unnamed" ones.


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## KenOC

I think this is a chicken-and-egg question. Certainly the more popular pieces tend to be given nicknames, and the pieces with nicknames then tend to be better-known and more often played.

In the case of Beethoven's sonatas, the named ones tend to have a backstory or are immediate "grabbers," like the Pathetique, the Moonlight, or the Appassionata. Other sonatas, maybe just as fine or even finer, don't have that immediate street appeal.

Without a nickname, a piece is a victim of what Sir George Grove called a "repugnant naming convention," where the Pathetique Sonata would instead be known as "Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor, Op. 13." Ugh! Who wants to hear something like that???


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## Triplets

I'm glad the last 3 Sonatas haven't acquired a nickname. They have inspired other names, however.
A few years ago there was a French record label na,ed "Op.111"


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## KenOC

Maybe we should give those last sonatas of Schubert nicknames. How about "Moe," "Larry," and "Curly"? That might make them more popular and better known, don't you think?


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## Guest

Some of the titles do not accurately describe the music, either. "The Tempest," for instance, refers to Shakespeare's play rather than suggesting it is an especially "stormy" piece, which it isn't. One should also realize that Beethoven did not name them.


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## MoonlightSonata

Maybe I could write a really unexciting work and call it the 'Sunshine Symphony', and people will rush to theatres to see it.
At least I have a choice.


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## PetrB

MoonlightSonata said:


> Maybe I could write a really unexciting work and call it the 'Sunshine Symphony', and people will rush to theatres to see it.
> At least I have a choice.


Hey, these days, PR, Branding and marketing are more than half the battle. Better decide, too, after consulting with psychologists who specialize in color and public response, what color you want the cover to be. All terribly important, the content, less so 

BUT: _*Recalling all those subtitles for Beethoven and Chopin pieces, subtitles,REMEMBER, IF YOU DON'T NAME IT, SOMEONE ELSE WILL!*_

P.s. Remember, _Helios Overture_ is already taken:
Carl Neilsen ~ Helios Overture





Well, presently, any Latin or Greek word-based titles will be thought of as "elitist" and / or "academic." Stick to the vernacular.


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## Mandryka

KenOC said:


> I think this is a chicken-and-egg question. Certainly the more popular pieces tend to be given nicknames, and the pieces with nicknames then tend to be better-known and more often played.
> 
> In the case of Beethoven's sonatas, the named ones tend to have a backstory or are immediate "grabbers," like the Pathetique, the Moonlight, or the Appassionata. Other sonatas, maybe just as fine or even finer, don't have that immediate street appeal.
> 
> Without a nickname, a piece is a victim of what Sir George Grove called a "repugnant naming convention," where the Pathetique Sonata would instead be known as "Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor, Op. 13." Ugh! Who wants to hear something like that???


Can you think of a good nickname for op 111?


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## nightscape

They're popular for a few reasons: They're good, they've been used more in TV/movies/commercials, and they have nicknames, which are easier to digest and remember for the general public.

Random Person: What is this, I _know _this...
Me: It's Beethoven
Random Person: But _is _it? I love it!
Me: Piano Sonata No. 14
Random Person: .........
Me: You know, the second one in his Op. 27
Random Person: I don't follow.
Me: It's the Moonlight Sonata.
Random Person: OH! It was in that Coen Bros movie!
Me: Uh, sure.

It should be noted for the history books that I hate the nickname 'Moonlight'. Beethoven wasn't alive to defend his art!


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## Chordalrock

I'd say the sonatas 8, 14, 17, 23 (and the slow movement from 15) are more characterful than most Beethoven piano sonatas. Certainly it's easy to see that the first movement of no 14 is a very unusual first movement. It seems special even among his slow movements. Beethoven really scored big time by looting Don Giovanni for musical material.

Similar apologias could perhaps be written for the other named sonatas. There's something immediately recognisable about their musical content. Of course, the names don't hurt either.


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## KenOC

Mandryka said:


> Can you think of a good nickname for op 111?


Good one! No, there can never be an appropriate nickname for the op. 111. And I say that with great certainty.


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## Animato

Triplets said:


> I frequently listen to LvB Piano Sonatas and enjoy every one of them. I wonder if some of the ones that have acquired names are favored inordinately in programming frequency at the expense of their unnamed brethren. For example, is the "Tempest" Sonata superior in any way to the unnamed Op 31/3? I prefer the latter work myself. Or should "Les Adieu " be played more than Op. 7?


I agree with you, Triplets. It is the fact that they have names at all, that makes some sonatas more popular than others, as stated already by yourselves and others. It is strange, because the names do not tell anything about the character of the sonatas at all. For example, there is the famous Waldstein-Sonata, because Beethoven dedicated this sonata to Mr. Waldstein. But why is there no Lichnovsky-Sonata or Sonnenfels-Sonata?

(By the way: names can be very misleading. The ballets of Tchaikovsky for example are based on fairy tales: Nutcracker, Sleeping Beauty, Swanlake. Accordingly they are considered as being "naive" or "music for children-like". But this is not true. The Ballets of Tchaikovsky contain music which matches the operas of Richard Wagner and could easily be named "Lord of the Ring" Ballets ;-)


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## Blancrocher

PetrB said:


> BUT: _*Recalling all those subtitles for Beethoven and Chopin pieces, subtitles,REMEMBER, IF YOU DON'T NAME IT, SOMEONE ELSE WILL!*_


I sometimes fantasize about what Beethoven would have thought about this "cuckoo sonata" business.


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## mikey

Kontrapunctus said:


> Some of the titles do not accurately describe the music, either. "The Tempest," for instance, refers to Shakespeare's play rather than suggesting it is an especially "stormy" piece, which it isn't. One should also realize that Beethoven did not name them.


I'm not sure if you know the story but when asked about the piece, Beethoven's reply was 'read the Tempest' so there is a connection there, it's up the individual to find it.
Schiff mentions that op.10 no.3 is a far better work than the Pathetique so perhaps there is some truth to the nickname popularity. However the Pathetique does have that 'instant popularity' that op.10 no.3 doesn't (imo), perhaps that is the reason why it's more popular. Or perhaps pieces that have the popular appeal inspire nicknames such as Moonlight, appassionata, emperor etc...


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## hpowders

For me there's the Hammerklavier and then the other 31.


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## AST

Even when pieces don't have publisher-added nicknames, other editions may add them. Several editions add silly nicknames to the Chopin studies. Op. 10 no. 3 is "Tristesse," for example.


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## Triplets

hpowders said:


> For me there's the Hammerklavier and then the other 31.


There is a fine name for such an epic work. The "Piano Bench" Sonata.


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## lextune

Triplets said:


> I'm glad the last 3 Sonatas haven't acquired a nickname. They have inspired other names, however.
> A few years ago there was a French record label na,ed "Op.111"


Actually several of the Sonatas acquired nicknames that eventually disappeared. Including the penultimate 31st Sonata. Op.110.

I am old enough to remember it being published many times with a nickname: The "Memory Sonata".


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## Valjuan

Triplets said:


> I frequently listen to LvB Piano Sonatas and enjoy every one of them. I wonder if some of the ones that have acquired names are favored inordinately in programming frequency at the expense of their unnamed brethren. For example, is the "Tempest" Sonata superior in any way to the unnamed Op 31/3? I prefer the latter work myself. Or should "Les Adieu " be played more than Op. 7?


I played the "Tempest" sonata on a recital in high school and 31/3 a couple years ago for my college Sophomore recital. I absolutely prefer the latter. I think you are on to something with the the names, many of which were never assigned by the composer.


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