# Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau....a great singer ?



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

There seems to be a variety of opinions on this.

What are your opinions on this singer please.

:tiphat:


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I've never heard a bad word about his voice or interpretations. I consider him a wonderful artist.


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

Most of the criticisms I've seen levelled against him have more to do with the suitably of his voice to some of the operatic roles he took on, such as Rigoletto, Wotan and Hans Sachs rather than about the singing itself. I have several discs of his lieder recordings that I cherish


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

One of the greats of the twentieth century IMHO.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

The results of The Performer Game completed in September of this year:

1. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (vocals)
2. Mstislav Rostropovich (cello)

3. Emil Gilels (piano)
3. David Oistrakh (violin)

5. Lynn Harrell (cello)
5. Yo-Yo Ma (cello)
5. Fritz Wunderlich (vocals)

8. Elly Ameling (vocals)
9. Glenn Gould (piano)
10. Sviatoslav Richter (piano)


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

He was a great artist, but I'm not sure I'd call him a great singer. I know that many revere him (I once heard a fairly well-known voice teacher say "A lot of people dislike him because they say he thinks that he's God. Well, I say, maybe he IS!!!), but for me, it's pretty rare that I don't prefer other singers - often many - in his repertoire.

The very forward placement of his voice meant that every word and syllable could be clearly understood, but it also meant that he often substituted bluster for real volume when the music required it. And there were times when his intellect got the better of him, causing him to overinterpret music that doesn't really need it. As Papageno on record, for example, he sounds self-conscious. Even at his best, his singing always sounds carefully planned and utterly lacking any sense of spontaneity.

As WildThing notes, he sang a lot operatic roles that sounded decidedly odd in his hands. I think that his Verdi is pretty dreadful - the voice simply lacks the resonance to fill out the music. Ditto for most of his Wagner; the only Wagnerian role that suited him was Kothner, which he sang a few times at Bayreuth.

And like a lot of singers, he went on much, much too long. His best records, vocally speaking, we made in the late 50's and early 60's. By 1970, I think that vocal deterioration was audible, but he continued singing and recording for another twenty years.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

^^^^That's what I read a lot. That he "barks" his roles.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> He was a great artist, but I'm not sure I'd call him a great singer. I know that many revere him (I once heard a fairly well-known voice teacher say "A lot of people dislike him because they say he thinks that he's God. Well, I say, maybe he IS!!!), but for me, it's pretty rare that I don't prefer other singers - often many - in his repertoire.
> 
> The very forward placement of his voice meant that every word and syllable could be clearly understood, but it also meant that he often substituted bluster for real volume when the music required it. And there were times when his intellect got the better of him, causing him to overinterpret music that doesn't really need it. As Papageno on record, for example, he sounds self-conscious. Even at his best, his singing always sounds carefully planned and utterly lacking any sense of spontaneity.
> 
> ...


I have an early Schubert Swan Song and the singing is glorious

I would disagree with some of your conclusions. I have the Falstaff under Bernstein and it is really good of its type. I would also say the Gunther and Friedrich of Telramund also suited him. I agree about Papageno. He is just too knowing for the simpleton


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Definitely a great singer. As others have said, in opera he would sometimes take on roles that required more sheer voice. Hence I don't like his Verdi (though his Falstaff is effective) or his Wotan (for which his tenorish baritone is entirely wrong), but his first Kurwenal under Furtwangler, his Wolfram, his Telramund, his Gunther and his Amfortas are all at least commendable. Mozart suits him well.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> I would disagree with some of your conclusions. I have the Falstaff under Bernstein and it is really good of its type.


It's one of his better operatic recordings, but I think that the role needs a fatter, more opulent voice.



> I would also say the Gunther and Friedrich of Telramund also suited him.


He's decent in those roles - but these are roles characterized dramatically by weakness, so his vocal deficiencies aren't so damaging. His Kurwenal on the 1952 recording is pretty good, though.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> It's one of his better operatic recordings, but *I think that the role needs a fatter, more opulent voice.*
> 
> He's decent in those roles - but these are roles characterized dramatically by weakness, so his vocal deficiencies aren't so damaging. His Kurwenal on the 1952 recording is pretty good, though.


Yes but you could say that of Gobbi too.But it is the characterisation that makes it. Certainly the early Kurwenal is really good. The later one with Kleiber is a liability as the voice had gone by then. I also have a late Wintereisse with Perahia which is frankly embarrassing. He shouldn't have been recording by then. Apparently in the flesh his appearance was riveting which made up for later vocal deficiencies.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Re Falstaff:"It's one of his better operatic recordings, but I think that the role needs a fatter, more opulent voice."



DavidA said:


> Yes but you could say that of Gobbi too.


Actually, I do say that about Gobbi. I recognize him as a great artist and interpreter, but the voice itself gives little pleasure. As Falstaff, I'd rather hear someone like Maestri, or even Terfel.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> Re Falstaff:"It's one of his better operatic recordings, but I think that the role needs a fatter, more opulent voice."
> 
> Actually, I do say that about Gobbi. I recognize him as a great artist and interpreter, but the voice itself gives little pleasure. As Falstaff, I'd rather hear someone like Maestri, or even Terfel.


To me, however, the interpretation is incomparable. Something he shared with Callas - not the greatest voice but incomparable interpreter


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

I’m going to go with this answer: great singer but one I mostly didn’t care for in many of his non-peak recordings, only good in a limited repertoire that he far exceeded, who declined much earlier than was generally acknowledged. 

When young, had an exceptionally beautiful and strange voice—like pure head voice throughout his range. 

Responsible for being the fly in the ointment in a number of major recordings with a-list costars. But much better in lieder than opera, although even in lieder, I prefer more straightforward singers like Hotter. But his 50s and early 60s lieder recordings stand the test of time.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Lotte Lehmann, a great singer of both opera and lieder, said upon hearing F-D, "This young man already knows what we've spent our lives learning."


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Definitely a great singer. As others have said, in opera he would sometimes take on roles that required more sheer voice. Hence I don't like his Verdi (though his Falstaff is effective) or his Wotan (for which his tenorish baritone is entirely wrong), but his first Kurwenal under Furtwangler, his Wolfram, his Telramund, his Gunther and his Amfortas are all at least commendable. Mozart suits him well.


I agree, but (generally speaking) I don't like the male voices.


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

The only opera role I liked him in is Rodrigo (that old-timey German(!) Don Carlos is up on YT and it's quite hilarious but also endearing)


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I have never enjoyed his work in opera, so I think of him as strictly a lieder singer lol


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

Bulldog said:


> The results of The Performer Game completed in September of this year:
> 
> 1. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau (vocals)
> 2. Mstislav Rostropovich (cello)
> ...


I would have thought there would have been another violin or two. Maybe one or two less cellos.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

haydnguy said:


> I would have thought there would have been another violin or two. Maybe one or two less cellos.


And I don't think that Harrell and Ma would make my list of top ten *cellists*, much less top ten performers.


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