# Greatest Romantic Piano Works



## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

So another poll! Vote for what you consider your favorite/greatest romantic piano work. Once again, I am forced to limit it to 15 pieces... So if your favorite is something that is not on the list, please mention it in the thread!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Brahms should not be anywhere near contention for greatest solo piano works. I say that as a pianist. Surely all pianists let out a collective gasp at seeing Brahms included and Rachmaninoff excluded.

Of those listed, I vote for Schumann's Fantasie.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

I am a pianist myself. I am not interested in Rachmaninoff's music.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

And I love fugues but I'm uninterested in Bach


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Couchie said:


> And I love fugues but I'm uninterested in Bach


Am I misunderstanding you or did you just compare Rachmaninoff's importance for piano music with Bach's importance for fugues?


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

The late Brahms piano pieces are among the greatest, romantic and all others.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm rocking w/ Chopin op.28 but could have just as easily voted for Schumann's Fantaisie.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Couchie said:


> Surely all pianists let out a collective gasp at seeing Brahms included and Rachmaninoff excluded.


I agree that Brahms shouldn't be included. It's just not a fair competition for everyone else.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Beebert said:


> I am a pianist myself. I am not interested in Rachmaninoff's music.


I am a pianist and I'm very interested in Rachmaninov's music but unfortunately cannot play it!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I would go for Kriesleriana as I don’t think Schubert’s sonatas really fit the romantic bill. They are some of my favourites though


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Brahms’s writing is a cakewalk compared to Schumann’s for pianists. His Op. 116-119 might be the greatest of all piano miniatures period were it not for the existence of a certain FC. Rachmaninoff is technically difficult but things fit very splendidly under the fingers. Anyway I had to vote for the Liszt which is one of my favorite overall works of the Romantic era, but I think Chopin’s Preludes epitomize the Romantic affinity for delicate character pieces.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

allegro con brio said:


> brahms's writing is a cakewalk compared to schumann's for pianists. His op. 116-119 might be the greatest of all piano miniatures period were it not for the existence of a certain fc. Rachmaninoff is technically difficult but things fit very splendidly under the fingers. Anyway i had to vote for the liszt which is one of my favorite overall works of the romantic era, but i think chopin's preludes epitomize the romantic affinity for delicate character pieces.


FC? .............


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Even though I greatly appreciate Schumann's second piano sonata, I can't really sympathize with other people's enthusiasm for his Fantasie. It just sounds to me like "typical Lisztian* out-of-the-blue rhapsodic improvisation lacking inspired melodic, transitional ideas". 
*(I don't see how it's better than Liszt's Waldesrauschen, for example).

If we're also talking about "sets of miniatures", wouldn't Mendelssohn also deserve a mention?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DavidA said:


> I would go for Kriesleriana as I don't think Schubert's sonatas really fit the romantic bill. They are some of my favourites though


The same for me except my Schumann of choice is Kreisleriana.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> If we're also talking about "sets of miniatures", wouldn't Mendelssohn also deserve a mention?


No mention, not even a thought.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> FC? .............


Chopin..................


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

There are lots of wonderful works in the poll, but my personal favorite is Liszt's Années de pèlerinage.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The Brahms op. 116-119 and Handel Variations in my view are the greatest. From the list I voted for the op. 118.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Brahms's writing is a cakewalk compared to Schumann's for pianists. His Op. 116-119 might be the greatest of all piano miniatures period were it not for the existence of a certain FC. Rachmaninoff is technically difficult but things fit very splendidly under the fingers. Anyway I had to vote for the Liszt which is one of my favorite overall works of the Romantic era, but I think Chopin's Preludes epitomize the Romantic affinity for delicate character pieces.


I don't agree with that. There are a handful of Schumann pieces I can play, but no Brahms. Brahms's intricate rhythms are really tough, especially in the late pieces.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> I don't agree with that. There are a handful of Schumann pieces I can play, but no Brahms. Brahms's intricate rhythms are really tough, especially in the late pieces.


Well, yes, that is true. Schumann wrote a lot of simpler pieces for intermediate students while Brahms did not. But Schumann's largest and most significant works (Symphonic Etudes, Fantasie, Toccata, sonatas) are more technically demanding than Brahms's most difficult IMO. Brahms isn't easy to play no matter which way you slice it either though. I guess I just find him more rewarding personally.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Well, yes, that is true. Schumann wrote a lot of simpler pieces for intermediate students while Brahms did not. But Schumann's largest and most significant works (Symphonic Etudes, Fantasie, Toccata, sonatas) are more technically demanding than Brahms's most difficult IMO. Brahms isn't easy to play no matter which way you slice it either though. I guess I just find him more rewarding personally.


Fair enough. Personally speaking, as much as I love Brahms's late piano pieces, Schumann's piano music definitely takes the prize for me. He just might be my favorite composer for the piano, if not Chopin or Beethoven. And while I heartily disagree with Couchie's ostensibly pianistic dismissal of Brahms's piano works, I expect most pianists would agree that Schumann is the more substantial composer for their instrument, between the two.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

hammeredklavier said:


> out-of-the-blue rhapsodic improvisation lacking inspired melodic, transitional ideas".


Yes, *this is what a fantasia literally is.
*
I love its meandering nature, a journey without a destination. Such is life.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The only redeeming feature of Brahm's piano music is that you can be drunk and still do it justice.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I think there is generally a certain kind of romanticism found in piano works of Chopin, Schumann, Liszt and even Rachmaninov (I know Schumann would not like being categorized with Liszt) but still I feel they represent a certain kind of romanticism and the romanticism of Brahms and Mendelssohn is a little different - more classically restrained. 

So as far as the comparison between Schumann and Brahms, it depends on the kind of romanticism that individual prefers. I don't think you can claim Schumann is a more significant composer for piano as far as anything technically in the music goes. But preferring his style is certainly valid, and I can see why many do. I think Brahms piano music is the harder nut to crack between the two.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

For some statistics I've just made up, 99% of pianists begin piano for Beethoven, 50% stick with it for Chopin, and 10% reach proficiency for Rachmaninoff. Brahms is not really in the picture.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

It’s so odd. Brahms is my second favorite composer and his late miniatures are some of my favorite things ever written for the piano. They took a little bit of effort for me to love but not very long. But I’ve been trying Schumann pretty consistently for 2+ years now and he mostly just doesn’t click with me. Even Schumann’s symphonies are often compared with those of Brahms, but I love every note of every Brahms symphony and totally vice versa for Schumann. Personal taste is such a strange thing.


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

flamencosketches said:


> Fair enough. Personally speaking, as much as I love Brahms's late piano pieces, Schumann's piano music definitely takes the prize for me. He just might be my favorite composer for the piano, if not Chopin or Beethoven. And while I heartily disagree with Couchie's ostensibly pianistic dismissal of Brahms's piano works, *I expect most pianists would agree that Schumann is the more substantial composer for their instrument, between the two.*


Perhaps for solo piano, but not piano as a whole. Brahms is peerless in the realm of piano chamber music, with all sixteen of his works as cornerstones of the performing repertoire -- something no other composer matches in that genre. If Brahms is ever downplayed as a major composer for piano, it's because this substantial body of piano repertoire is not accounted for.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Couchie said:


> Yes, *this is what a fantasia literally is.
> *I love its meandering nature, a journey without a destination. Such is life.


Come to think of it, I tend not to appreciate many fantasies in the early Romantic era. Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin. Chopin's Op.49 is beautifully-written, with his crafty pianistic writing. But I'm just not really into his aesthetics. The way he exaggerates things as the main material returns (like doubling the bass with octaves with increased dynamics in the recapitulation. Or increasing the number of notes in the left hand, as in Op.58) seems a little artificial to me.








The 4th Ballade is better, a worthy candidate for the best Romantic piano piece. (But I voted the Liszt sonata)

btw, this kind of epitomizes the kind of things I look for in a fantasy-piece:


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

pjang23 said:


> Perhaps for solo piano, but not piano as a whole. Brahms is peerless in the realm of piano chamber music, with all sixteen of his works as cornerstones of the performing repertoire -- something no other composer matches in that genre. If Brahms is ever downplayed as a major composer for piano, it's because this substantial body of piano repertoire is not accounted for.


I'm a pianist and I would rate Brahms higher than Schumann even on solo piano works alone. That's to take nothing away from Schumann, whose works I really admire.
Anyway I haven't been commenting on this forum very long, but (no offense) the number of "who/what is/was the greatest" threads starts to feel like some constant horse race, or classical music baseball-card trading (back when that was a thing). So much of that is subjective.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

I am surprised to see Brahms getting more votes than anyone else. Of course these are great works, but greater than Schumann's best piano music? Not to speak of Chopin's and Schubert's? This really surprised me. That so few votes are given to pieces like Schubert D 959 and D 960 (though you could question whether to call them romantic or not), Schumann's Davidsbündlertänze and Chopin's Barcarolle and 4th Ballade for example, are big surprises for me. 

Maybe Couchie's not so smart comment about Brahms provoked some of you. 

I regret that I made the poll so that one can only vote for one option...


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Couchie said:


> For some statistics I've just made up, 99% of pianists begin piano for Beethoven, 50% stick with it for Chopin, and 10% reach proficiency for Rachmaninoff. Brahms is not really in the picture.


That 10% reach proficiency for Rachmaninoff maybe says more about them than about Rachmaninoff?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

pjang23 said:


> Perhaps for solo piano, but not piano as a whole. *Brahms is peerless in the realm of piano chamber music, with all sixteen of his works as cornerstones of the performing repertoire -- something no other composer matches in that genre.* If Brahms is ever downplayed as a major composer for piano, it's because this substantial body of piano repertoire is not accounted for.


In your opinion of course,


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> It's so odd. Brahms is my second favorite composer and his late miniatures are some of my favorite things ever written for the piano. They took a little bit of effort for me to love but not very long. But I've been trying Schumann pretty consistently for 2+ years now and he mostly just doesn't click with me. Even Schumann's symphonies are often compared with those of Brahms, but I love every note of every Brahms symphony and totally vice versa for Schumann. Personal taste is such a strange thing.


Agree entirely. I give Schumann a go every so often, and can rarely engage. I like the Piano Quintet. Beyond that, not so much, and I don't go back to the solo piano work at all - except to try again.

The feeling I have when listening to him is that I can't see what he's getting at. Others obviously do.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

My favourite on the list is Schubert's D960.

Overall it would probably have been Liszt's sublime sets of _Années de pèlerinage_ or _Harmonies poétiques et religieuses_.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Other: Mussorgsky - Pictures at an exhibition or Chopin - Nocturnes.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Does anyone have a favourite performance of the Liszt sonata? I have Pletnev, Argerich and Bolet kicking around on CD. Think they're all pretty good.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Eclectic Al said:


> Does anyone have a favourite performance of the Liszt sonata? I have Pletnev, Argerich and Bolet kicking around on CD. Think they're all pretty good.


Argerich for me. Love it.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

pjang23 said:


> Perhaps for solo piano, but not piano as a whole. Brahms is peerless in the realm of piano chamber music, with all sixteen of his works as cornerstones of the performing repertoire -- something no other composer matches in that genre. If Brahms is ever downplayed as a major composer for piano, it's because this substantial body of piano repertoire is not accounted for.


Well, being that the thread is about solo piano, I'd hoped it'd be self-evident that that's what I'm talking about, but in any case, Schumann's piano chamber music can definitely hold its own against that of Brahms: the Piano Trios, Piano Quartet & Quintet, the Violin Sonatas, hell, even the Lieder-I'd put any one of these up against the best of Brahms in the same genre. Schumann was not an insignificant composer in piano chamber music. Granted, I'll take either of Brahms's piano concertos over Schumann's A minor concerto, 8 days of the week, but his concerto is not insignificant either.

Having gotten all that out of the way, I would categorically reject anyone's assertion that Brahms is not a major composer for the piano. He is.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> ...
> Having gotten all that out of the way, I would categorically reject anyone's assertion that Brahms is not a major composer for the piano. He is.


If the question were "you can only save one body of solo piano music, and you have to choose either that of Brahms or Schumann", Brahms gets the nod for the Intermezzi alone. Schumann wrote some fine music but Brahms to me is just finer in quality. AND Brahms is more likely to be appreciated by more than just piano nerds.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

consuono said:


> If the question were "you can only save one body of solo piano music, and you have to choose either that of Brahms or Schumann", Brahms gets the nod for the Intermezzi alone. Schumann wrote some fine music but Brahms to me is just finer in quality. AND Brahms is more likely to be appreciated by more than just piano nerds.


Which is your favorite Opus of the late pieces? My favorite is Op 116, which seems to be the least popular.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Beebert said:


> Which is your favorite Opus of the late pieces? My favorite is Op 116, which seems to be the least popular.


They're all great and Op. 116 is a good choice. I think though I'd probably give a slight subjective edge to Op. 119.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

consuono said:


> If the question were "you can only save one body of solo piano music, and you have to choose either that of Brahms or Schumann", Brahms gets the nod for the Intermezzi alone. Schumann wrote some fine music but Brahms to me is just finer in quality. AND Brahms is more likely to be appreciated by more than just piano nerds.


Except for his Handel Variations, I could easily live out my life without solo Brahms. I give the nod to Schumann.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

consuono said:


> If the question were "you can only save one body of solo piano music, and you have to choose either that of Brahms or Schumann", Brahms gets the nod for the Intermezzi alone. Schumann wrote some fine music but Brahms to me is just finer in quality. AND Brahms is more likely to be appreciated by more than just piano nerds.


Is it? I doubt it. Both of them have a few solo piano pieces that are quickly and easily grasped by a general audience (Intermezzo in A, Traumerei, etc.) but then the rest of their works are harder nuts to crack in comparison to Chopin's or Liszt's ouevre.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

I'm going to do a bit of a Brahms-Schumann comparison for solo piano since we're on this topic-and yes, I might be biased towards Schumann since he's my favorite composer so take this as an opinion and not a impartial analysis.

_Sonatas: _*Schumann*
I like the sonatas of both composers, even if they aren't as popular or well-regarded as other works such as the Liszt B Minor or Chopin Op.35. But for me, Schumann's sonatas connect more emotionally and seem to have more variety between them. Sometimes Brahms' sonatas sound almost immature compared to his other works.

_Variation works:_ *Brahms*
For me, Schumann and Brahms are the two greatest Romantic era contributors to the Theme and Variation genre. However, I think Brahms takes the edge because he has a larger number of variation works I consider to be true artistic statements (variations on Handel, Paganini, and Schumann). Schumann only has one masterpiece in the genre (the Symphonic Etudes) while the other ones are either unfinished (the Beethoven variations) or lighter/immature (Abegg variations).

_Miniatures: _*Brahms*
This was a hard category to judge because it is difficult to distinguish between a Schumann work that might be labelled a suite or merely a series of miniatures. Is Kreisleriana a set of miniatures? Or is it too interwoven and thus more of a single, coherent work? The same question could be asked for other pieces such as Carnaval, Papillons, etc.

In the end I decided that the works that follow more of a single narrative and are clearly connected would not be considered for this category. This would mean that Kreisleriana, Carnaval, Humoreske, Papillons, Fasschingswank aus Wien,-really the majority of Schumann's masterworks-would not be considered for this category.

Perhaps just as well, because it would be no contest if they were. Even without the main body of his solo works, Schumann is still a strong contender with Kinderszenen, Waldszenen, Fantasiestucke, Album für die Jugend, Nachtstucke, Romances, Bunte Blatter, and the 8 Novelletten. However I do feel that Brahms wins by a hair due to the sheer depth and quality of his Intermezzi, Rhapsodies, Caprices,etc. A split decision but a decision nonetheless.

_Etudes:_ *Tie*
Both composers are not particularly strong in this category. Brahms has the 51 Exercises which are musically not much different than the Hanon exercises, as well as the 5 Studies which is essentially mishmash of random ideas that Brahms threw together at whim. Schumann has the two sets of Paganini Etudes which are not all that interesting to me.

One could argue for considering the Paganini Variations as a series of etudes (they have the word "studies" in the title) but then one would also have to consider the Symphonic Etudes as being in the same category and then we would be back to a standstill.

_Other large-scale works:_ *Schumann
*The "other" works of the two composers are hard to categorize. Other than the Sonatas and Variations, Brahms did not write much in the way of large scale works. And the "other" large scale works of Schumann defy description in the way that they formed a genre that didn't yet exist at the time. Either way, it is pretty clear that Schumann dominates large-scale solo composition with his Kreisleriana, Fantasie in C, Humoreske, Davidsbündlertänze, Carnaval, etc. 
_
Conclusion:_
Personally, Schumann wins-but if we go by the numbers, the contest is dead even, each with two wins over the other. It is best that we aren't forced to choose between the two and enjoy the music of both.


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## Caryatid (Mar 28, 2020)

Brahms Op. 118 is great but not substantial enough on its own. If the poll treated Op. 116-119 as a single body of work, you would have a contender.

To my mind Schumann's best work for solo piano, which no one has nominated, is perhaps the old-fashioned choice, Carnaval. It's not as sensuous as Kreisleriana and the Fantasie, but after many hearings I find it a more memorable work on a note-by-note basis. As a listening experience it reminds me of the Diabelli Variations. It's austere, but great. The first movement of the Fantasie may be even greater, but not the other movements of the Fantasie.

But if I had to place one work above all others, it would be Liszt's Reminiscences de Norma. It's not well known, but nothing else for solo piano is so _well-paced _at such length. It tells a story as naturally and organically as a Beethoven sonata, but it is longer than any one movement from the sonatas. And that incredible finale! Liszt set out to write a parody of Thalberg, but he accidentally wrought something magnificent.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Caryatid said:


> Brahms Op. 118 is great but not substantial enough on its own. If the poll treated Op. 116-119 as a single body of work, you would have a contender.
> 
> To my mind Schumann's best work for solo piano, which no one has nominated, is perhaps the old-fashioned choice, Carnaval. It's not as sensuous as Kreisleriana and the Fantasie, but after many hearings I find it a more memorable work on a note-by-note basis. As a listening experience it reminds me of the Diabelli Variations. It's austere, but great. The first movement of the Fantasie may be even greater, but not the other movements of the Fantasie.
> 
> But if I had to place one work above all others, it would be Liszt's Reminiscences de Norma. It's not well known, but nothing else for solo piano is so _well-paced _at such length. It tells a story as naturally and organically as a Beethoven sonata, but it is longer than any one movement from the sonatas. And that incredible finale! Liszt set out to write a parody of Thalberg, but he accidentally wrought something magnificent.


Norma is among my favorite of Liszt's operatic paraphrases, along with Don Juan. And yes, an argument can be made for Carnaval being Schumann's best work, even though I picked his Fantasie-of which I believe all three movements are equally excellent (yes, even the 2nd movement which is abounding in spectacular harmonic language).


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## Caryatid (Mar 28, 2020)

chu42 said:


> Norma is among my favorite of Liszt's operatic paraphrases, along with Don Juan. And yes, an argument can be made for Carnaval being Schumann's best work, even though I picked his Fantasie-of which I believe all three movements are equally excellent (yes, even the 2nd movement which is abounding in spectacular harmonic language).


It's actually the third movement that I have the strongest reservations about, but I just fundamentally disagree that either of the later movements is a match for the astonishing first. They are by no means _bad_, but they are never quite inventive enough to justify their considerable length. It doesn't surprise me that they were not written at the same time as the first movement. I believe the piece would be performed much more often if it had remained a one-movement work, like a Chopin Ballade.

Schumann did the same thing again with the Piano Concerto, and I have similar reservations there. His second thoughts were rarely as inspired as his first.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Caryatid said:


> It's actually the third movement that I have the strongest reservations about, but I just fundamentally disagree that either of the later movements is a match for the astonishing first. They are by no means _bad_, but they are never quite inventive enough to justify their considerable length. It doesn't surprise me that they were not written at the same time as the first movement. I believe the piece would be performed much more often if it had remained a one-movement work, like a Chopin Ballade.
> 
> Schumann did the same thing again with the Piano Concerto, and I have similar reservations there. His second thoughts were rarely as inspired as his first.


It would probably be performed more often then, yes... Since the second movement is insanely difficult even for the greatest pianists, with its crazy difficult jumps/skips in the coda.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Bulldog said:


> Except for his Handel Variations, I could easily live out my life without solo Brahms. I give the nod to Schumann.


I could actually live the rest of my life without either, but I'd miss Brahms far more than Schumann when it comes to solo piano music.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

I classify Romantic piano music thusly according to my preferences, with a top 2 or 3 in each category in descending order. Note that I don’t include Beethoven or Schubert because I think they only have one foot across the Classical/Romantic line.

Sonatas: Liszt, Chopin 2/3, Brahms 3

Variations: Brahms - Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Handel, Schumann - Symphonic Etudes

Fantasia: Schumann - Fantasie in C, Chopin - Fantaisie in F Minor and Polonaise-Fantaisie

Ballades: Chopin 1 and 4 (2 and 3 don’t do too much for me), all 4 of Brahms which should be performed together like a sonata

Etudes: Chopin Op. 10, Liszt Transcendental Etudes, Rachmaninoff Op. 39

Preludes: Chopin, Rachmaninoff

Miscellaneous miniatures: Brahms Opp. 116-119, Chopin Nocturnes, Rachmaninoff - 6 Moments Musicaux

Random: Chopin - Barcarolle, Franck - Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue (really underrated)


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I classify Romantic piano music thusly according to my preferences, with a top 2 or 3 in each category in descending order. Note that I don't include Beethoven or Schubert because I think they only have one foot across the Classical/Romantic line.
> 
> Sonatas: Liszt, Chopin 2/3, Brahms 3
> 
> ...


If you mention Chopin Nocturnes, why not mention his Mazurkas also? They are just as great as a body of work, and there is even more innovation there. And of course, don't forget Chopin's Op 25.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Beebert said:


> If you mention Chopin Nocturnes, why not mention his Mazurkas also? They are just as great as a body of work, and there is even more innovation there. And of course, don't forget Chopin's Op 25.


I love the mazurkas and probably should have included them in the miniatures category. I also like Op. 25 but think Op. 10 is more consistently interesting.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

it surprises me that no attention is given to Barcarolle by Chopin. Why is that?


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Beebert said:


> it surprises me that no attention is given to Barcarolle by Chopin. Why is that?


It just might be my favorite under-10-minutes piece of music of all time, but in terms of "greatest Romantic piano works" I think the ultimate honor has to go the Liszt sonata, or even Chopin's nocturnes and preludes.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> It just might be my favorite under-10-minutes piece of music of all time, but in terms of "greatest Romantic piano works" I think the ultimate honor has to go the Liszt sonata, or even Chopin's nocturnes and preludes.


I think the Barcarolle might be Chopin's masterpiece. I also think a work like Davidsbündlertänze is greater than Liszt's sonata. That is a highly controversial opinion, I know. But my opinion, still. But why should we consider Chopin's Nocturnes as being one work? Every opus among the nocturnes is one work of its own, I think...


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Beebert said:


> I think the Barcarolle might be Chopin's masterpiece. I also think a work like Davidsbündlertänze is greater than Liszt's sonata. That is a highly controversial opinion, I know. But my opinion, still. But why should we consider Chopin's Nocturnes as being one work? Every opus among the nocturnes is one work of its own, I think...


Davidsbündlertänze being greater than the Liszt sonata is sure to be a contentious opinion but one I can get behind. Both pieces are so inventive at every turn that it's difficult to judge which one is better.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

chu42 said:


> Davidsbündlertänze being greater than the Liszt sonata is sure to be a contentious opinion but one I can get behind. Both pieces are so inventive at every turn.


On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of Liszt. I find Schubert's D 845 in A minor greater than Liszt's sonata... Now THAT seems to be a controversial opinion. Davidsbündlertänze is in my opinion Schumann's greatest achievement for piano.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Beebert said:


> On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of Liszt. I find Schubert's D 845 in A minor greater than Liszt's sonata... Now THAT seems to be a controversial opinion. Davidsbündlertänze is in my opinion Schumann's greatest achievement for piano.


Well, it is controversial to say that D.845 is a Romantic work in the first place! If I were making a poll I would start from 1828- and go all the way to Rachmaninov, perhaps include his 2nd Sonata.

Still voted for Schumann though. Extraordinarily intimate and passionate, like no composer before or after him.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

chu42 said:


> Well, it is controversial to say that D.845 is a Romantic work in the first place! If I were making a poll I would start from 1828- and go all the way to Rachmaninov, perhaps include his 2nd Sonata. Still voted for Schumann though.


Yes I didn't mean D 845 is a romantic work. It is on the border between classical and romantic, in the true sense of the word. But I consider it to be greater music than Liszt's sonata, and I am always upset that people don't consider it as great as it deserves to be considered.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

I voted with my heart and chose Schumann's Fantaisie. It might not be as grand as Liszt's Sonata or Schubert's D.960, but no other piece in the entire repertoire typifies Romanticism as well for me. There is passion brimming over the page with every melody and chord - you are almost afraid to touch the keys in the final movement for fear of misrepresenting the extreme sensitivity of each emotion. I also think that the Fantaisie is easier to choose than one of Schumann's other masterpieces because each movement is slightly longer and the piece feels a little more developed, though a piece like Kreisleriana has more development between "movements" than one often thinks. Also, Schumann presents a whole new conception of how to appreciate music that goes against the Beethovenian concept of "development".

I also think that it's possible that the concept of "greatest work" is slightly unfair to Chopin because he typically composed in sets or miniatures, so his individual pieces don't stand out as much. To be fair, he probably has the best overall piano repertoire of any of the composers on the list, and the Op. 23 Preludes probably belongs at the very top of this list if evaluated rightfully as a set. I think any one of his Ballades could also be near the very top if they were either a little longer or taken together. Unfortunately, he is kind of given the short end of the stick in these kinds of polls.

I don't love Liszt, but there are portions of Harmonies Poétiques et Religieuses and Annees de Pelerinage that reach heights for me greater than that of the Sonata. I'm also not sure if this list was meant to be limited to a certain time period or geographic region, but a few pieces that definitely deserve a mention in a poll like this are Mussorgsky's Pictures and Grieg's Lyric Pieces. But they are not "High Romantic".


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I haven't read this entire thing but has anyone mentioned Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata? It is generally considered to be to piano sonatas what the "emporer" concerto is to piano concertos. It certainly qualities as a "romantic" work for the piano having been written 1818, 15 years after the Eroica symphony. 

This is to ignore the three more famous of his sonatas -- moonlight, patetique and appasionata -- neither of which made this list of so-called "greatest romantic piano works."

Has no one mentioned Robert Schumann Symphonic Etudes or the Chopin Piano Sonata No. 3? Aren't these better or at least more pronounced examples of romantic pianism that the many miniatures listed? The Liszt piano sonata would also be in this group. I don't see any sonata written by Schubert being equal to any of these yet somehow they are listed.


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## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

larold said:


> I haven't read this entire thing but has anyone mentioned Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata? It is generally considered to be to piano sonatas what the "emporer" concerto is to piano concertos. It certainly qualities as a "romantic" work for the piano having been written 1818, 15 years after the Eroica symphony.
> 
> This is to ignore the three more famous of his sonatas -- moonlight, patetique and appasionata -- neither of which made this list of so-called "greatest romantic piano works."
> 
> Has no one mentioned Robert Schumann Symphonic Etudes or the Chopin Piano Sonata No. 3? Aren't these better or at least more pronounced examples of romantic pianism that the many miniatures listed? The Liszt piano sonata would also be in this group. I don't see any sonata written by Schubert being equal to any of these yet somehow they are listed.


Beethoven is not included for a reason. But check the thread about the greatest sonatas, and he will certainly be there. Of course, it is debatable whether Schubert should be included or not, since he is also not hundred percent a romantic composer. But Beethoven, I don't consider him romantic. Not at all. He transcended those categories. Maybe Schubert's sonatas nor his impromptus should be there. But not for the reason that they are inferior as music. I consider his late sonatas to be better music than the works you mentioned by Liszt, Schumann and Chopin, for sure. BUT, I agree... I shouldn't have included him. Maybe I should make a new thread about the greatest piano works from the 19th century instead, where we talk about the greatest BODY of works, instead of greatest single works.


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