# The best trill ever?



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm sure many here are familiar with this singer, but I've never heard of her before (being such a baby  )
I found this in a facebook group. This singer has the best trill ever, or at least the best I've heard so far. Obviously her prowess isn't limited to trills.. Magnificent!


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Hard to beat Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Selma Kurz is not too familiar to me, but thanks for bringing her to mind. A champion of the trill indeed! To hold a trill with perfect accuracy of pitch and timing for that long is an amazing accomplishment. Has anyone equaled that lately?


----------



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Hard to beat Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland


Yma Sumac :lol:


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Tuoksu said:


> Yma Sumac :lol:


Not really classical although I like this one:


----------



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Pugg said:


> Not really classical


no more classical than Beyonce is :lol:

The trill here is superhuman:


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It is one thing to trill with a small, lyric sized voice. Sutherland, Horne, Callas, and Ponselle all had gigantic voices but possessed perfect trills. I was not as fond of Sill's trill as I was of Sutherland's. I'd put Sutherland and Horne at the top of the list. Sutherland could trill on half notes, full notes and notes of a wider spread in one spectacular instance that comes to mind.


----------



## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

What's the difference between a dressmaker and a soprano?


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Retrograde Inversion said:


> What's the difference between a dressmaker and a soprano?


A dressmaker makes frills and a soprano makes trills??


----------



## Retrograde Inversion (Nov 27, 2016)

A dressmaker tucks up frills.


----------



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Kirsten Flagstad had a surprisingly impressive trill


----------



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Frida Leider has the best trill I've heard among Wagnerians:


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Flagstad's trill wasn't quite the real thing. Leider's was.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Kirsten Flagstad had a surprisingly impressive trill


A wonderful trill from maybe the biggest soprano voice of all time. It is no wonder she at one time considered Norma.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Retrograde Inversion said:


> A dressmaker tucks up frills.


Hahaha. I like yours better.


----------



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is one thing to trill with a small, lyric sized voice. Sutherland, Horne, Callas, and Ponselle all had gigantic voices but possessed perfect trills. I was not as fond of Sill's trill as I was of Sutherland's. I'd put Sutherland and Horne at the top of the list. Sutherland could trill on half notes, full notes and notes of a wider spread in one spectacular instance that comes to mind.


What is that Seattle?

:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


----------



## yucheukchee (Jan 5, 2017)

I think you can listen to The Devil's Trill played by Itzhak Perlman


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

yucheukchee said:


> I think you can listen to The Devil's Trill played by Itzhak Perlman


Alas no opera voice , welcome to Talk classical by the way.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barelytenor said:


> What is that Seattle?
> 
> :tiphat:
> 
> ...






I am an embarassment to my opera fanatic friend's but almost always now listen to Sutherland in this amazing Youtube collection. There is no playlist, but I am sure the opera is either Somanamula or Puritani and at 20.50 you can hear Sutherland do a trill over a wider span of notes than just two adjacent notes.


----------



## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am an embarassment to my opera fanatic friend's but almost always now listen to Sutherland in this amazing Youtube collection. There is no playlist, but I am sure the opera is either Somanamula or Puritani and at 20.50 you can hear Sutherland do a trill over a wider span of notes than just two adjacent notes.


That is from mad scence of Puritani "vien diletto" Sutherland was amazing in her early years when voice was fresh and clear as as mountain spring water, breathtaking technical delivery .........there is nothing like her today

Another singer with huge voice I keep forgetting is Leyla Gencer, was just listening to a compilation and her technique (including a great trill) and agility is amazing for such a powerful dramatic voice


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The best trills ever were probably emanating from the throats of the special virtuosic singers alive in Handel's day-castratos and sopranos for whom Handel wrote his most virtuosic arias.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A trill that always left me open-mouthed for its precision is the one at the end of "Caro nome" as sung by Callas (go to the 7:00 mark - or just listen to the whole lovely thing!).


----------



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> A trill that always left me open-mouthed for its precision is the one at the end of "Caro nome" as sung by Callas (go to the 7:00 mark - or just listen to the whole lovely thing!).


<3 That was the first trill I've ever heard, ie the first trill I heard after learning what trill is. Callas did amazing feats on trills: trills in crescendi, diminuendi, messe di voce (pace Pavarotti, messa di voce IS a thing), accurate trillo mordente (quando rapito in e~~~~~~~estasi), mezzo trillo (di tale amor che di-i-i-~~~~~~rsi), trillo cresciuto (Anna Bolena), trills in pianissimo in the stratosphere (Lucia's cadenza), trill on the semi-tone trills that float forever (Caro nome)...


----------



## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

This Caro Nome is my favorite


----------



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Ellen Beach Yaw Trills on Major Thirds-or Something*



Seattleoperafan said:


> I am an embarassment to my opera fanatic friend's but almost always now listen to Sutherland in this amazing Youtube collection. There is no playlist, but I am sure the opera is either Somanamula or Puritani and at 20.50 you can hear Sutherland do a trill over a wider span of notes than just two adjacent notes.


Wow, that sounds like a trill on a minor third (three half steps) to me. Reminds me of a CD from my Freaky Voices collection (Ivan Rebroff, Amy Camus, Erna Sack 'Die Deutsche Nachtigall,' and) this soprano nicknamed 'Lark Ellen' a.k.a. Ellen Beach Yaw, whose [rawther interesting] voice "whose range extended from G below middle C to the highest E on the piano" if you believe the CD case)
I bought this in a dusty secondhand CD shop down in the Village in NYC many years ago, Pearl label, GEMM 9239, made in England. 
She does some freaky trills on thirds and even fourths, or maybe they're just singing back and forth rapidly from one to the other. If you believe the booklet, she sang Lucia with Bonci and Stracciari at the Met in 1908. Despite her being able to sing as high as Mado Robin and trill on major thirds, her vocal quality makes me want to stick pencils in my ears.






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barelytenor said:


> Wow, that sounds like a trill on a minor third (three half steps) to me. Reminds me of a CD from my Freaky Voices collection (Ivan Rebroff, Amy Camus, Erna Sack 'Die Deutsche Nachtigall,' and) this soprano nicknamed 'Lark Ellen' a.k.a. Ellen Beach Yaw, whose [rawther interesting] voice "whose range extended from G below middle C to the highest E on the piano" if you believe the CD case)
> I bought this in a dusty secondhand CD ship down in the Village in NYC many years ago, Pearl label, GEMM 9239, made in England.
> She does some freaky trills on thirds and even fourths, or maybe they're just singing back and forth rapidly from one to the other. If you believe the booklet, she sang Lucia with Bonci and Stracciari at the Met in 1908. Despite her being able to sing as high as Mado Robin and trill on major thirds, her vocal quality makes me want to stick pencils in my ears.
> 
> ...


Well, that's excruciating, isn't it? I'm sure she sounded less squeaky in person, recordings of that era being very unkind to sopranos, and may well have been better in 1908 when she was evidently good enough to sing opposite Bonci and Stracciari. Her tone here is almost, at times completely, vibratoless. The highest note she reaches here is the A above the Queen of the Night's F. She's actually going for the Bb but doesn't quite make it.

I'll go for Florence Foster Jenkins. Yaw isn't quite awful enough to be funny.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Nellie Melba & Montserrat Caballé.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Let us not forget Renee Fleming -- one heckuva fine trill.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Melba, Caballé and Fleming make one trilling exhibition of vocal virtuosity.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Me. (if you can believe it! I can't sing so great but man do I have one superb trill. Don't ask me how I do it. I have no idea!)


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Let us not forget Renee Fleming -- one heckuva fine trill.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

First, let me say that being musically illiterate, I may not know what I am talking about (i.e., not know a trill from something else), but if this is trilling (and if not trilling, certainly thrilling) then i would say it may not be the best trill ever but it certainly is a unique and very special trill:


----------



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

nina foresti said:


> Me. (if you can believe it! I can't sing so great but man do I have one superb trill. Don't ask me how I do it. I have no idea!)


I'm pretty sure the best trillers are like you, those to whom it just comes naturally. Other singers like moi, who have to work on it, well ... it just doesn't work. And you can always work on your voice, but ... you can't work on your trill (much).

:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Barelytenor said:


> I'm pretty sure the best trillers are like you, those to whom it just comes naturally. Other singers like moi, who have to work on it, well ... it just doesn't work. And you can always work on your voice, but ... you can't work on your trill (much).
> 
> :tiphat:
> 
> ...


I had a good trill too. Joan Sutherland could always trill and thought it couldn't be acquired. I'd like to know how easily it came to Callas. Her trill was very regular and exact in pitch, she always emphasized the need for "schooling" the voice in bel canto techniques, and she seems to have felt that almost anyone, at least sopranos, should be able to learn to trill. The fact that the dramatic sopranos and other big voices of the acoustic recording era could trill, and sing roles containing a lot of coloratura, argues for that possibility.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I always was awed by the determination of Marilyn Horne who admittedly had no trill but was gung ho to fashion one. She practiced and practiced till she got it down pat. Not an easy thing to do. I give the lady credit for accomplishing the almost impossible.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> I always was awed by the determination of Marilyn Horne who admittedly had no trill but was gung ho to fashion one. She practiced and practiced till she got it down pat. Not an easy thing to do. I give the lady credit for accomplishing the almost impossible.


Horne's experience may support Callas's conviction, no doubt acquired from her training with the superb coloratura soprano Elvira de Hidalgo, that all (or most) singers can and should be thoroughly schooled in bel canto technique. The style of vocal music composed during the Baroque era, requiring more or less equal flexibility from singers in all voice ranges, and in choral as well as solo writing, also argues for this.

It's been asserted that higher voices tend to be more flexible and capable of rapid execution of trills and scales, and this may be true in general. But it seems merely negligent, and certainly does the art of singing no favors, for singers to settle for less than complete technical training, regardless of their voice type or repertoire in which they end up specializing. Indeed, singers in earlier times didn't specialize as much as they began to do once operatic music itself became more diverse and varied in its demands. Yet even Wagner's Brunnhilde is asked to trill in both _Die Walkure_ and _Siegfried_, and the dramatic sopranos of the time could no doubt comply, as could Frida Leider as heard on recordings of the 1930s. Callas herself, who sang practically every sort of music written for the soprano voice, liked to say that "a soprano is a soprano"; Lilli Lehmann and Johanna Gadski would no doubt have agreed. And Enrico Caruso, whose powerful instrument was capable of singing roles ranging from Nemorino to Otello (the "vengeance duet" on a fantastic recording with Tita Ruffo) and had superb coloratura ability including a fine trill, might have echoed that with "a tenor is a tenor."


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> I always was awed by the determination of Marilyn Horne who admittedly had no trill but was gung ho to fashion one. She practiced and practiced till she got it down pat. Not an easy thing to do. I give the lady credit for accomplishing the almost impossible.


I give the lady credit for all she did, wonderful voice.


----------



## jdcbr (Jul 21, 2014)

Don't forget Sills - a nearly perfect trill.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

jdcbr said:


> Don't forget Sills - a nearly perfect trill.


Oh man, Sills' would be the trills to die for!


----------



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Joan Sutherland's trills in RIGOLETTO, LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR, and I PURITANI were out of this world! My absolute favorite is that ascending scale with trills in "Vien, diletto," which you can hear on her 1973 complete recording of I PURITANI.

Ruth Ann Swenson, especially in her recording of "Caro nome":


----------



## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Oh man, Sills' would be the trills to die for!







*Beverly Sills* Vocal Range - F3-F6


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It is harder to trill with a big voice but here are four sopranos who had marvelous trills along with having gigantic voices: Eileen Farrell, Astrid Varnay,Rosa Ponselle, and Gwyneth Jones. They were all marvelous Verdi sopranos.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is harder to trill with a big voice but here are four sopranos who had marvelous trills along with having gigantic voices: Eileen Farrell, Astrid Varnay,Rosa Ponselle, and Gwyneth Jones. They were all marvelous Verdi sopranos.


I know Ponselle could trill, but have never heard those other ladies do it. Can you suggest some YouTube examples?


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I know Ponselle could trill, but have never heard those other ladies do it. Can you suggest some YouTube examples?






 Farrell's PERFECT trill




 Jones when she was one of the greatest Verdi singers of all time
Jones also did Norma at 60 after singer Wagner for years and did a really amazing job. I'm sure there is a trill in there somewhere.




 Varnay Trovatore She also does a great trill in Wagner but my brain is blanking on where at the moment.
Jane Eaglen was also a Bruinhilde who could trill. I could track down if you want me to.


----------



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Well, regardless of what Woodduck says, I don't think there are too many people sitting around thinking, "Hmmm, I wish George had a better trill." But then again, this is why I quit trying to pursue opera as a profession in my mid-30s. It's hard, I'm too lazy and undisciplined, and it had ceased to be fun. Now it's fun again (although there's some truth in what Woodduck says ... and the bass/baritone part in the Verdi Requiem, off the top of my head, does call for a trill in the "Hostias" section of the Offertorio).

So now, as a lyric-Verdi baritone at (nearly) age 68, let's cue up the chorus of "The Trill Is Gone."






:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Farrell's PERFECT trill
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. What a pity Farrell didn't make more complete opera recordings, or for that matter just do more opera. As Callas said, "The Met can hardly be considered a serious artistic institution. They don't even have Farrell."

It's also great to hear Jones in 1966, before the dreaded wobble cropped up. As for Varnay, if she'd stop scooping and swelling and increasing the vibrato gradually on note after note like some sultry torch singer I might be able to stand listening to her. I'll bet Callas would have a choice remark for her too.


----------



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Here are some effortless trills from the great voices of the golden past; these ladies all successfully performed Brunnhilde and/or Isolde at some point in their career  :


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Here are some effortless trills from the great voices of the golden past; these ladies all successfully performed Brunnhilde and/or Isolde at some point in their career  :


Wonderful stuff, silentio. These women had technique to burn! A pity recordings of the time couldn't capture the size, body and brilliance of their voices, and often forced them to rush through arias while doing virtual acrobatics in front of a horn. It's no wonder some singers refused to make recordings, or hated the recordings they did make.

Fabulous trills from all of them. That Hungarian thing by Nordica is an absolute hoot - such coloratura from a Wagnerian! - and Solomiya Kruschelnytska manages to be powerfully moving in the _Mefistofele_ aria despite the technology.


----------



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

I remembered Steane mentioning that Kruschelnytska, Muzio, and Callas were the three most imaginative sopranos on record. Kruschelnytska's recordings (all of which are available on YouTube nowadays) justify his assessment: she does sound ways ahead of her time, with the kind of deep characterization, darkening the voice and putting the "drama" before the purity of tone. In addition, she was a singer of historical importance. From Wikipedia:

_"In the history of music, Krushelnytska is known as an active promoter of the works of her contemporaries, and of Richard Wagner. In 1902 she starred in a successful production of Lohengrin in Paris. In 1906 she appeared to acclaim at Milan's La Scala in Richard Strauss's Salome, conducted by Arturo Toscanini...

In 1904, she famously became a savior of Puccini's Madama Butterfly. The opera had been booed by the audience at its premiere in Milan's La Scala, but three months later in Brescia, a revised version of the work, with Krushelnytska singing the leading role, was a major success."_

(What a freak this soprano is!)

Sometimes I wonder if the like of Lehmann, Kruschelnytska, Fremstad, Leider etc, e.g. hardcore Wagnerian soprano who could effortlessly execute any kind of coloratura from Mozart to Verdi, was the norm of the past, or they were extreme outliers!


----------



## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

That Kruschelnytska is a phenomenon. Thanks for bringing her to our attention, I had never heard or heard of her before. Fantastic trill ... and voice! I wonder if she ever sang Kostelnička?

:tiphat:

Kind regards,

George


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> I remembered Steane mentioning that Kruschelnytska, Muzio, and Callas were the three most imaginative sopranos on record. Kruschelnytska's recordings (all of which are available on YouTube nowadays) justify his assessment: she does sound ways ahead of her time, with the kind of deep characterization, darkening the voice and putting the "drama" before the purity of tone. In addition, she was a singer of historical importance. From Wikipedia:
> 
> _"In the history of music, Krushelnytska is known as an active promoter of the works of her contemporaries, and of Richard Wagner. In 1902 she starred in a successful production of Lohengrin in Paris. In 1906 she appeared to acclaim at Milan's La Scala in Richard Strauss's Salome, conducted by Arturo Toscanini...
> 
> ...


They may have been among the best, but I don't think they were outliers. These singers were trained in old traditions of vocal pedagogy still maintained in the 19th century, before singing was compartmentalized into "fachs" and when there was no such thing as a "Wagnerian soprano" or a "Verdi soprano." Yeah, there were lighter and heavier voices, but basically you sang anything you had the power and endurance for, and you were expected to have the technique to do it. Even Nellie Melba seems to have thought that if Lehmann could sing the Queen of the Night, Melba could sing Brunnhilde (or maybe she just thought that Melba could do anything). Of course she quickly discovered that she was wrong, but the idea that she had a "fach" obviously never occurred to her. It wasn't only the sopranos, either. Contralto extraordinaire Ernestine Schumann-Heink, who was the first Klytemnestra in Strauss's _Elektra_ and sang everything from Donizetti to Wagner, had coloratura technique to burn, and so did Caruso, though his repertoire rarely called for it; his cadenza at the end of "La donna e mobile" is unsurpassed, and he shows us a perfect trill in "Ombra mai fu," recorded when his voice had darkened into that of a dramatic tenor who would have taken on Otello and even Wagner.

I'm still discovering singers from the early days of recording whose vocal prowess amazes me. It seems to me that World War II was a cataclysm that amounted to a great dividing line in the history of mankind, and that the history of musical performance practice, including singing, also divides into pre- and post-war. Maybe it's just a personal perspective, or a function of my age (early baby boomer, who grew up with 78rpm records of Galli-Curci and other "golden age" singers). All I'm certain of is that when I want to hear Verdi or Wagner sung as well as it can be sung - from the standpoint of technique and, usually, style as well - it's to singers active before WW II that I must usually turn.


----------



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> They may have been among the best, but I don't think they were outliers. These singers were trained in old traditions of vocal pedagogy still maintained in the 19th century, before singing was compartmentalized into "fachs" and when there was no such thing as a "Wagnerian soprano" or a "Verdi soprano." Yeah, there were lighter and heavier voices, but basically, you sang anything you had the power and endurance for, and you were expected to have the technique to do it. Even Nellie Melba seems to have thought that if Lehmann could sing the Queen of the Night, Melba could sing Brunnhilde (or maybe she just thought that Melba could do anything). Of course she quickly discovered that she was wrong, but the idea that she had a "fach" obviously never occurred to her. It wasn't only the sopranos, either. Contralto extraordinaire Ernestine Schumann-Heink, who was the first Klytemnestra in Strauss's _Elektra_ and sang everything from Donizetti to Wagner, had coloratura technique to burn, and so did Caruso, though his repertoire rarely called for it; his cadenza at the end of "La donna e mobile" is unsurpassed, and he shows us a perfect trill in "Ombra mai fu," recorded when his voice had darkened into that of a dramatic tenor who would have taken on Otello and even Wagner.
> 
> I'm still discovering singers from the early days of recording whose vocal prowess amazes me. *It seems to me that World War II was a cataclysm that amounted to a great dividing line in the history of mankind and that the history of musical performance practice, including singing, also divides into pre- and post-war. Maybe it's just a personal perspective, or a function of my age (early baby boomer, who grew up with 78rpm records of Galli-Curci and other "golden age" singers)*. All I'm certain of is that when I want to hear Verdi or Wagner sung as well as it can be sung - from the standpoint of technique and, usually, style as well - it's to singers active before WW II that I must usually turn.


Great points Woodduck. I often heard the same things among my pianophile and theater-going friends, that as if the _geist_ in these arts were stripped off by some brutal forces post-war. One can't help to wonder what happened exactly?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Great points Woodduck. I often heard the same things among my pianophile and theater-going friends, that as if the _geist_ in these arts were stripped off by some brutal forces post-war. One can't help to wonder what happened exactly?


That has to be an enormously complicated question. The Nazi era, the traumatization of Europe, the atomic bomb, Soviet imperialism, the cold war and the arms race, the space race, the explosive growth of American prosperity, technology and influence, the triumph of Modernism in the arts, the rise of pop and media culture - all that and more within thirty years... Yes, I'd say those were "brutal forces"!

I listen to old recordings to get a feel for life before it all came down on us. What could take us farther from the world as we know it than the voice of the 62-year-old Adelina Patti, recorded in 1905, singing "Home, Sweet Home"?






And to bring us back to trills, here's Patti's "Ah non credea" from _La Sonnambula:_






Here we have a singer, born in 1843, who sang for Rossini, and whom in her prime Verdi called "the greatest singer in the world," showing us a technique and style, a simple, clear, serene, unforced, natural way of using the voice, which is now entirely lost. I find these recordings incredibly moving, and the more I listen to Patti the more I love her.


----------

