# Do you believe in total emancipation of the dissonance?



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Wiki says that

Jim Samson (1977, 146–47) describes:

"As the ear becomes acclimatized to a sonority within a particular context, the sonority will gradually become 'emancipated' from that context and seek a new one. The emancipation of the dominant-quality dissonances has followed this pattern, with the dominant seventh developing in status from a contrapuntal note in the sixteenth century to a quasi-consonant harmonic note in the early nineteenth. By the later nineteenth century the higher numbered dominant-quality dissonances had also achieved harmonic status, with resolution delayed or omitted completely. The greater autonomy of the dominant-quality dissonance contributed significantly to the weakening of traditional tonal function within a purely diatonic context."


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## Isaac Blackburn (Feb 26, 2020)

I think this theory neglects the physical basis for dissonance within harmonic partials, and fails to distinguish between the "auditory offensiveness" of dissonance and the dissonance itself. The former depends on the listener, the latter on the intervals and chords. (Although I'm not even sure dissonance is a useful word here- perhaps some would say the auditory offensiveness _is_ the dissonance, and they would find another term, such as chord stability, to describe the more objective aspect.)


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

So trying to translate this into normal-speak, we get used to dissonances over time (as a 'culture' over historical times, at least; not necessarily as individuals). What was once thought to be disgusting dissonance becomes seen and heard as 'spice' or 'flavour'.

Can we then get to a point where dissonance is the only '-nance'? Can we be so accustomed to plinky-plonk music over time that it sounds 'consonant' to us and thus we are happy with it? 

Nope. Not a chance. Not these ears, anyway. They know when they're being spoon-fed the auditory equivalent of curry powder (and cope) and Scotch bonnet chilies (and mostly cope). They draw the line at the "music" equivalent of a Carolina Reaper. I believe what's true for my ears is likely mostly true for most ears for the foreseeable future. Come back in 2320 and we can check who was right, I guess.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> So trying to translate this into normal-speak, we get used to dissonances over time (as a 'culture' over historical times, at least; not necessarily as individuals). What was once thought to be disgusting dissonance becomes seen and heard as 'spice' or 'flavour'.
> 
> Can we then get to a point where dissonance is the only '-nance'? Can we be so accustomed to plinky-plonk music over time that it sounds 'consonant' to us and thus we are happy with it?
> 
> Nope. Not a chance. Not these ears, anyway. They know when they're being spoon-fed the auditory equivalent of curry powder (and cope) and Scotch bonnet chilies (and mostly cope). They draw the line at the "music" equivalent of a Carolina Reaper. I believe what's true for my ears is likely mostly true for most ears for the foreseeable future. Come back in 2320 and we can check who was right, I guess.


Those blasted thirds too. I don't care what the likes of Dunstable and Power say, that kind of dissonance is just nasty.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I find it the equivalent of niche erotic enthusiasts seeking ever greater deviations. It's spectrum where one should know when to say enough. In its most extreme cases - curious for a psychiatrist, nothing more.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

science said:


> Those blasted thirds too. I don't care what the likes of Dunstable and Power say, that kind of dissonance is just nasty.


I did say, 'give it a couple hundred years'!

I also think it's one thing to throw in a minor 13th or something, just for fun, just once in a while, and a different thing entirely to write nothing but minor 13ths! Man cannot live on spice alone...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> I did say, 'give it a couple hundred years'!
> 
> I also think it's one thing to throw in a minor 13th or something, just for fun, just once in a while, and a different thing entirely to write nothing but minor 13ths! Man cannot live on spice alone...


One thing we can be fairly sure of is the the majority of people alive today enjoy music that our great-grandparents would've found atrocious, and that our great-grandchildren (if humanity survives that long) will enjoy music that we would find atrocious.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

science said:


> One thing we can be fairly sure of is the the majority of people alive today enjoy music that our great-grandparents would've found atrocious, and that our great-grandchildren (if humanity survives that long) will enjoy music that we would find atrocious.


I know my father thought Britten appalling. He was a man ahead of his time...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> I know my father thought Britten appalling. He was a man ahead of his time...


How do you think he would've felt about Kanye West?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

science said:


> One thing we can be fairly sure of is the the majority of people alive today enjoy music that our great-grandparents would've found atrocious, and that our great-grandchildren (if humanity survives that long) will enjoy music that we would find atrocious.


And why do they have to play it so loud? That's not music!

Now get off my lawn.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

The bulk of my listening is from High Baroque to Late Romantic, and almost all my music is tonal. Yet I enjoy some avant-garde, serial, and atonal works. For example, the Bartok String Quartet cycle.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I'm wondering about that 3rd option, and how the question could ever be outdated? I can only see it being outdated if everyone answers "yes", as in "Of course, Duh", which I don't believe is even close to being the case, and as this poll also shows.

Everyone is different. Most people I know personally are VERY comfortable with the more consonant sonorities, and have no interest whatsoever in ever being acquainted further with many of the dissonances or hearing different contexts. It was only quite recently that I was emancipated personally.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Seems to me, dissonance is totally emancipated by definition.


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