# Is Robert Simpson a forgotten composer.



## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

With the notable exception of Hyperion, and to a lesser extent Chandos Robert Simpson seems to be the forgotten English composer.
Hyperion's magnificent survey of his symphonies chamber music and more are a testament to their faith in him and his music.
On the other hand the major English labels like E M I & Decca appear to have ignored him. In their catalogue E M I have one disc originally issued in 1956 and I can find no other issues. On Decca he appears to be unrepresented. Other small labels have had the rare issue (Unicorn, Revolution)
So the question is why has Simpson, a wonderful symphonist and chamber composer, been ignored by the major labels.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

How often is Simpson's music performed? How many conductors have championed him? Is he played at all outside Britain? A number of distinguished British composers seem not to travel well, for whatever reason.

I've heard a few of Simpson's symphonies and find them dramatic and severe in tone, clearly the work of a strong musical mind but rather lacking in memorable melodic material and emotional warmth. If the record companies aren't taking chances on the market for him, my guess is that they're right to be cautious. Maybe Naxos will step in at some point.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Robert Simpson was a fine musician and writer. His book on the Bruckner symphonies is essential reading for followers of that composer. His description of the finale of the 3rd is hysterical! Too bad that sense of humor never made it into the symphonies. They are tough nuts, indeed. Very difficult to play, to conduct, and frankly to listen to. Lord knows I've tried, but they just won't register in the brain. Simpson was another of those mid-century composers who was hoodwinked into writing modern-ugly stuff that the average listener just doesn't respond to, never mind enjoy. He's lucky that Hyperion has made the cycle - I doubt anyone else will ever do so.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

He certainly isn't neglected by me, but I definitely see what you mean - if it wasn't for Hyperion there would be so little available so I'm forever in their debt for recording so much of it.

I think Robert Simpson's music is excellent. The symphonies and string quartets are obviously central to his output but virtually everything else is noteworthy - numerous other chamber works, some brass music and a handful of compositions for piano, organ and choir.

The works Hyperion left out include the concertos for flute, cello and piano, but the second and third of these are available on Lyrita and BBC respectively (albeit at fluctuating prices in the case of the BBC one). There was also an early-ish violin concerto which Simpson later withdrew and some incidental music which hasn't, as far as I'm aware, ever seen the light of day.

Although Hyperion did a sterling job overall I still think it would be a nice gesture on their part to re-issue the chamber works in box set form - I gather the box set for the symphonies sold well so it surely would make sense to make the chamber works available in one hit, especially with the prices of some of the individual discs commanding high-ish prices for second hand copies.

As regards the majors not taking a chance on him, I imagine as he didn't have an international reputation as such he simply went under the radar, and as the much-praised Hyperion series is now synonymous with him I can't see any label entering the fray for a very long time.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Some time ago I collected all of Simpson’s symphonies and string quartets plus a few other things. I thought I’d really get to like his music.

Hasn’t worked out. For whatever reason, his stuff leaves me cold (and most of it is, in fact, kind of cold). My reaction only of course; others might get quite fired up by his music.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I've tried to get fired up by Simpson's music, but like KenOC it hasn't happened yet.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Rather unfortunately, that makes three of us. Simpson for me seems to command respect, the love bit still feels a long way off.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> How often is Simpson's music performed? How many conductors have championed him? Is he played at all outside Britain? A number of distinguished British composers seem not to travel well, for whatever reason.


The only live Simpson I can recall in Dublin was a memorable performance of his 9th Symphony. It was to have been conducted by Vernon Handley, however he was indisposed and his place on the podium was taken by John Carewe. The orchestra were on top form that night, and the reception for the symphony and the composer was tremendous.

Sadly I am not aware of any other perfprmances of his works in Dublin. There may have been performances by the Vanburgh Quartet who participated in the Hyperion String Quartet cycle. they recorded No's 14 & 15.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> A number of distinguished British composers seem not to travel well, for whatever reason.


However, they travel quite well on TC.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

KenOC said:


> Some time ago I collected all of Simpson's symphonies and string quartets plus a few other things. I thought I'd really get to like his music.
> 
> Hasn't worked out. For whatever reason, his stuff leaves me cold (and most of it is, in fact, kind of cold). My reaction only of course; others might get quite fired up by his music.


Spot on for me as well. The rave reviews in Gramophone late 80s and 90s of the Hyperion dics put them on my 'must have' list at the time, and when I ordered my monthly supply (all by letter, pre-internet) of CDs from the UK, there was usually a Simpson on it. Played them often, but failed to get hooked.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Robert Pickett said:


> Rather unfortunately, that makes three of us. Simpson for me seems to command respect, the love bit still feels a long way off.


Four of us, actually - or is it five, or six, or... A bit like trying to pet a porcupine.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

There was a time I was on the Simpson bandwagon shortly after his box of symphonies was released. I listened to everything of his I could locate. In time I found his music banal and academic, more concerned with form than impact. It was quite disconcerting since I considered Vernon Handley an outstanding conductor ... to that point. When I compared his work to better conductors in Simpson, he was in the dust.

I would only recommend two Simpson recordings: Boult's of the 1st symphony and Horenstein's of the 3rd with a piece of chamber music attached. I think if you spend time with the Hyperion box of his symphonies you won't hear the best from his music other than possibly the 6th symphony.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Simpson's music goes nowhere for me. I have the Handley set but it does nothing for me. I'll try them again some time but I doubt I'll change my mind. A lack of decent choons I'm afraid.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I do wonder what effect Simpson's works would have in a live performance. More than once in my life, a work that failed to catch fire on recording and made little impression, came to life when played live. It would be interesting. Lucky Polyphemus! Looking over the essentially dull programming I've seen so far from every American orchestra for 2018/19 I don't think it will ever happen.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Who? .


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

mbhaub said:


> I do wonder what effect Simpson's works would have in a live performance. More than once in my life, a work that failed to catch fire on recording and made little impression, came to life when played live. It would be interesting. Lucky Polyphemus! Looking over the essentially dull programming I've seen so far from every American orchestra for 2018/19 I don't think it will ever happen.


Sadly I have to agree with 'mdhaub'. The Orchestras in Ireland are in a sorry state due to a slashing of funding by the Govt. With only 68 contracted players and 'new music' being very low on their list of priorities, it does not bode well for the future. Not to mention that we have not had a principal conductor since the 2015/2016 season of subscription concerts. This of course is reflected in the diminishing quality of performance. So if I want to hear Simpson or any other 'unpopular' composer I would have to travel to England in the unlikely event that the RLPO or CBSO programmed his work.


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## Marcos (May 3, 2021)

He is composer of the week on BBC Radio 3: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnxf


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Marcos said:


> _He is composer of the week_ on BBC Radio 3: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tnxf


I'm pleasantly surprised with that - whenever I come across Radio 3s scheduling it always seems to be Beethoven...


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

The string quartets I find vastly better than the symphonies. As far as I know the only complete set is by the Delmé Quartet on Hyperion.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

I have most of the symphonies and decided I would finally invest some time and at least listen once. But I did that for a couple and it didn't hold my attention (short span of attention).
Need to try again, not unattractive but I have to find what's distinctive.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

MarkW said:


> Who? .


I think his grandson Bart made it pretty big. You might have heard of him.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

EdwardBast said:


> I think his grandson Bart made it pretty big. You might have heard of him.


And his granddaughter Jessica, who at least claims _some_ modicum of musical "talent".

Years ago I picked up the cassette version of Vernon Handley's reading of the Simpson 6th and 7th Symphonies and played them often in the ol' Jeep when I was on the road. Both symphonies stuck with me rather well, and I continue to revisit them by way of the CDs. I have since gathered up all the Vernon Handley offerings of the Simpson symphonies on Hyperion CDs, but none of the others have stayed with me as the 6th and 7th. So those are the two I would recommend for folks wanting to visit this composer for the first time. Meanwhile, I remind myself that I should give those other symphonies at least one more listen. You never know....


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> I think his grandson Bart made it pretty big. You might have heard of him.


...and his great grannie ran off with a King.
I find myself in agreement with SanAntone here as I too much prefer the 4tets to the symphonies..


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Who? .


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm just going through the "Composer of the Week" now. I'm not really new to Simpson having bought the 9th symphony nearly 30 years ago and investigated in somewhat more depth more recently. The symphonies tend to drive me crazy because the passionate promoter of Bruckner and Nielsen forgot one of the factors which made especially the former such a great composer -- the incomparable melodic gift. Although some symphonies like 9 and 6 have many other things going for them, the overall feeling, as so many have pointed out, is that Simpson is so obsessed with structural integrity that he doesn't want to risk melody in case it cannot be manipulated to fit in with the overall architecture. Perhaps his interest in the cosmos devoid of human life also plays a role.

This is curiously less the case with the string quartets which often seem more human -- above all in the Quintet for clarinet, bass clarinet and string trio which even inspired me to write a work for this unusual combination.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

Interesting post....and welcome.


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## maestro267 (Jul 25, 2009)

It's not about melody, it's about momentum and push. There are fascinating structural aspects of Simpson's symphonies. The 5th revolves around the opening chord, which is taken apart in the first Canone and rebuilt again in the second. And the 9th is the longest symphonic movement in one single pulse, with changes in rhythm giving the illusion of tempo changes.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

As with many obscure composers, a particular record company will open the gates with strong dedication such as what Marco Polo/Naxos did with the string chamber music of Louis Spohr. With little exception, other record labels do not follow along, and the obscurity continues.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

There's a new(er) recording of Symphonies 5 and 6 this year, the premieres from from 1973 (Andrew Davis, London Symphony) and 1980 (Charles Groves, London Philharmonic) on the Lyrita label. To my ears these performances are substantially better than those from Vernon Handley and join Boult's recording of No. 1 and Horenstein's of No. 3 as the best examples of his symphonic art.


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

larold said:


> There's a new(er) recording of Symphonies 5 and 6 this year, the premieres from from 1973 (Andrew Davis, London Symphony) and 1980 (Charles Groves, London Philharmonic) on the Lyrita label. To my ears these performances are substantially better than those from Vernon Handley and join Boult's recording of No. 1 and Horenstein's of No. 3 as the best examples of his symphonic art.
> 
> View attachment 156628


Yes, it's a good release. At the time, Simpson expressed disappointment with the performance of the 6th by Groves, feeling that it was a few minutes too long. I have to agree with the composer and I much prefer Vernon Handley's recording. Boult's performance of 1 is electrifying and Horenstein's 3 is a favourite of mine. I had this release on pre-order and was eagerly anticipating it's release, but I must say I was slightly disappointed. Perhaps I need to give it a few more listens.

UPDATE: I've just listened to symphony no. 5 and it's a scorcher of a performance! I agree, superior to the Handley. I'm not sure why I was lukewarm about this, perhaps it was the 6th that dampened things down for me.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

MarkW said:


> Who? .


I was tempted...but luckily you beat me to it. Some thread titles are just so inviting...


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Thank you for sharing the info. Ive never heard about this composer before.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

maestro267 said:


> It's not about melody, it's about momentum and push. .


this was exactly my point. The rather abstract nature of most of his themes mean that only a relatively small percentage of listeners will be able to follow the musical arguments in full. If a theme or even motif has enough individuality then it is much easier to follow its destruction and reassembly than if you can't remember it in the first place. The fact that it is usually easier to manipulate a more abstract theme doesn't help the listener. Simpson is unsurpassed at what he does but will never be a popular composer. Very likely it doesn't matter if he was successful on his own terms.


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