# Composers with the finest personality traits



## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

Mendelssohn= Competence, Professionalism and pure class. (Enough said, born of a well to do family, you think he would be an incompetent luxuriating snob, but no. He got his hands dirty composing, conducting and promoting. His sexual life was never sordid)
Bruckner= Humility, studiousness (A guy who was termed the eternal student. He never put off learning even in his 40s)
Bach = Industriousness and resourcefulness. (Produced high quality works in abundance and had time to teach his sons)
Haydn= Kindness and Industriousness (a guy who told Beethoven to publish his piano trios under the title Beethoven a student of Haydn, so that they would get more sales, wrote 100 
+ symphonies, helped to promote Mozart and even acknowledged Mozart as greater than him)
Schubert= Humility, perseverance, kindness and industriousness. (With his circumstances of poverty, here is a guy's whose hope was never shaken)


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Richard Wagner


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Carlo Gesualdo - all around nice guy.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Let's not forget Tikhon Khrennikov:

*http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article2288512.ece*


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

After seeing interviews with Schoenberg, I think he was quite friendly and humble. 

I don't necessarily think humility is fine personality trait though. Too much of it and you get the mess of Bruckner's symphonies we have today with no definitive versions.


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## Mayerl (May 5, 2008)

Thank you, Aramis


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Prokofiev... I could go on for a long time about him. And Glazunov! I'll talk about him too, who was almost the complete opposite of Prokofiev. Yet they actually were friends.

Except I ran out of time now, will talk later.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2010)

Johannes Brahms.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> His sexual life was never sordid


Circle of rural housewives approves.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Hands down, Ignaz Moscheles. But for the famous composers, I agree that Mendelssohn is a good choice.

Prokofiev from what I've read was a pretty _difficult_ person to be around, but that can also be said about him in a good way I suppose. I think we would have been good rebel pals.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Myaskovsky or Shebalin.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

Dutilleux as well.


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## Head_case (Feb 5, 2010)

(maybe not Wagner...)




















(scarper for cover!!)


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

Weston said:


> I don't necessarily think humility is fine personality trait though. Too much of it and you get the mess of Bruckner's symphonies we have today with no definitive versions.


there's a difference between humility and a lack of self confidence. Bruckner had both. But the fact that Bruckner was studying at age 40 shows that he was humble enough to not believe he had learned everything.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Mendelssohn= Competence, Professionalism and pure class. (Enough said, born of a well to do family, you think he would be an incompetent luxuriating snob, but no. He got his hands dirty composing, conducting and promoting. His sexual life was never sordid)
> Bruckner= Humility, studiousness (A guy who was termed the eternal student. He never put off learning even in his 40s)
> Bach = Industriousness and resourcefulness. (Produced high quality works in abundance and had time to teach his sons)
> Haydn= Kindness and Industriousness (a guy who told Beethoven to publish his piano trios under the title Beethoven a student of Haydn, so that they would get more sales, wrote 100
> ...


Pure speculation mixed in with some historical facts while omitting others. It reminds me of the tabloid sections of some trashy newspapers. You need to substantiate a lot of your claims. Competence, professionalism equated with Mendelssohn. Really? Was he the only one who was really just that?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> there's a difference between humility and a lack of self confidence. Bruckner had both. But the fact that Bruckner was studying at age 40 shows that he was humble enough to not believe he had learned everything.


The comedy of it. Did you think Bruckner was the only composer who was studying at age forty (and extrapolate from that he was humble)?


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Did you think Bruckner was the only composer who was studying at age forty.


In one word, " Yes ". If you read Bruckner's biography you would see that he submitted to all music authorities of his day so as to ensure he was competent, hence the need to be studying at 40. That is humility. Brahms had his teacher Eduard Marxsen who thought him piano and composition, and he had Joachim who taught him orchestration, and he was thrusted upon the Beethoven throne before composing any symphonic work.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Pure speculation mixed in with some historical facts while omitting others. It reminds me of the tabloid sections of some trashy newspapers. You need to substantiate a lot of your claims. Competence, professionalism equated with Mendelssohn. Really? Was he the only one who was really just that?


1. Pure speculation? I say prove to the contrary.
2. Whatever you are reminded of in my initial post is irrelevant and I don't really care.
3. Er yes, Mendelssohn was competent and a consummate professional. He excelled both as a composer, a performer, a conductor and a teacher. And his magnanimous nature benefited upcoming composers greatly. In addition he revived the works of Bach. Go read.
4. Was Mendelssohn the only one who was competent and a consummate professional? NO, nor do I think that my post suggested that he was the only one.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

My point regarding this whole thread is about _superficial tendencies _of threads like this to lump a few subjective favourites regarding the individual biographies of the composers who appeared to have the "finest personality traits".

Mind you, why did you not mention Bruckner had an unnatural interest with corpses and he appeared to have made marriage proposals to teenage/young girls when he was into old age? Franz Joseph Haydn had a mistress because he was unhappily married, and was rumoured to have fathered an illegitimate child. Schubert probably suffered from syphilis from sleeping with whores. Why have these been omitted? Or are these too much for being counted as "finest personality traits"?

The point is people choose to present what they have read based on scanty evidence and make leaping speculations of human beings who died hundreds of years ago. These composers were human beings as much as you or I. They were not Gods. They wrote beautiful music and lived human lives. To present and believe that they were near perfect role models are simply verging on pop-idol idolatry.


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

I think every good composer has to have flaws. Being human is having flaws and music is about expressing your humanity. That said, I don't consider to Mendelssohn to be that great of a composer (not to say he isn't human!), he's a musical genius certainly, but with not much to write about. I think a more troubled composer would have come up with a much more satisfying ending to his Violin Concerto- instead of the fluff that is the 3rd movement. 

My point being that the more messed up your life is, the more messed up you are, and the more you have to write about.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Jan 7, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> My point regarding this whole thread is about _superficial tendencies _of threads like this to lump a few subjective favourites regarding the individual biographies of the composers who appeared to have the "finest personality traits".
> 
> Mind you, why did you not mention Bruckner had an unnatural interest with corpses and he appeared to have made marriage proposals to teenage/young girls when he was into old age? Franz Joseph Haydn had a mistress because he was unhappily married, and was rumoured to have fathered an illegitimate child. Schubert probably suffered from syphilis from sleeping with whores. Why have these been omitted? Or are these too much for being counted as "finest personality traits"?
> 
> The point is people choose to present what they have read based on scanty evidence and make leaping speculations of human beings who died hundreds of years ago. These composers were human beings as much as you or I. They were not Gods. They wrote beautiful music and lived human lives. To present and believe that they were near perfect role models are simply verging on pop-idol idolatry.


1. As for Bruckner's obsession with corpses, how does this make him less humble?
2. Haydn had a mistress, how does this make him less kind and not industrious?

The thread is entitled, Composers with the Finest Personality Traits. The thread is not entitled, Composers who are perfect.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

The thread originally came across to me as being written by one who has a few favourite composers, and only providing a speculated one-sided view of their personalities, verging on idolatry. I am merely suggesting a more even sided view of things, as speculative as they maybe, and not cultivating a very romaticized view of these folks.

Bruckner's abnormal obsession with corpses made his apparent virtues questionable. But that is* not *what I care about at all, whether he was humble or a necrophilia. The fact that he wrote good music to many ears does not somehow elevate his decencies and indecenies to God-like status or that of a deviant. Threads like this are overtly lopsided.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> As for Bruckner's obsession with corpses, how does this make him less humble?


I would say that it makes him even more humbe - he was so unconfident that he didn't want to bother living people with his company, so he decided to hang out with stiffs.


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