# Vier Letzte Lieder.



## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

I have just been listening again to the version by Arleen Auger with the VPO and Andre Previn.
It occurs to me that this is one of the very best renditions of this work, but it is quietly passed over whenever there is a comparative study. I wonder why? No one sings it better or enunciates the text as well, the VPO under Previn are in wonderful form and Previn's conducting is exquisite.

When I think of my favourites among all the versions, I would certainly place this in my top three.
1 Flagstad Furtwängler 
2 Della Casa Karl Böhm
3 Auger Previn 
4 Janowitz Karajan

Flagstad had Trouble with the tessitura of the "Beim Schlafengehen", but she still sounds wonderful .
I always thought that Della Casa's voice was the ideal for these lieder but having listened again to Auger, I am almost convinced to elevate her to pride of place.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I thought Flagstad rather too grand for these songs. Della Casa with Bohm has the right voice - beautiful - but Bohm seems to push the music too fast. I have also Schwartzkopf and Karajan on a disc that she apparently didn't like. It's good but the recording is elderly.
With Janowitz / Karajan you get the most gorgeous and indulgent reading, with slow tempi that allow you to enjoy the full beauty of the music.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

I agree in part about Flagstad, her voice was no longer able to deal with the problems of Beim Schlafengehen, but September and I'm Abendrot are sublime.
I have always wondered why WF never programmed the works again, having premiered them. He seemed to have a very hot cand cold feeling for Strauss. I would love to have heard him again in this with another singer, the young Schwarzkopf would have been a fine match.
Karajan's interpretation was equally fine, but Janowitz's voice had that tubular quality that I personally don't take to.
My fifth favourite would undoubtably be Lucia Popp, with Tennstedt. (or the live performance with Solti in Chicago)


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

We went this route not that long ago.
If you want to hear Flagstad at her best in these songs you have to find the Philharmonia / Furtwaengler live performance.
This was given in the Royal Albert Hall, May 22nd, 1950. Flagstad was 55 years old then. It was pirated at the rehearsals and issued by Cetra. DavidA would have a fit at the sound but hard luck ,you want to hear Flagstad at her best in this then you are stuck with it.
The Schwarzkopf recording to go for is the 1965 EMI recording with George Sell and the Berlin Radio symphony Orchestra.
Szell doesn't let her perform her usual over interpreting and cooings and mewlings and the whole thing is most impressive.
The recording is excellent.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

As one of my absolute favorite bodies of work, I have a slew of recordings of the _Four Last Songs:_



My favorites are probably the Schwarzkopf/Szell, Lisa della Casa, and the second Renée Fleming. The only Flagstad recording I've heard was late in her career and did not display her voice anywhere near her prime. I haven't herd Arleen Auger's recording but listening to her Haydn Songs and Spotify...










... I can agree that hers sounds like a voice well suited to Strauss' lieder.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Aha! This is the Four Last Songs you folks are on about. Jessye Norman then.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Susan Danco has an excellent voice for this music. Teresa Stich Randall is equally interesting.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Teresa Stich-Randall is a favourite of mine and considering her achievements in Europe not mentioned nearly enough.


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## Ymer (Oct 13, 2013)

What, no Kathleen Ferrier nor Aafje Heynis?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Did Ferrier record the _Four Last Songs_? Perhaps you are thinking of Mahler's _Song of the Earth_?


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## Ymer (Oct 13, 2013)

No, Vier ernste Gesänge. Misread the title. Oops!

As for the Vier Letzte Lieder, definitely Gundula Janowitz for me. Truly underrated!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

moody said:


> We went this route not that long ago.
> If you want to hear Flagstad at her best in these songs you have to find the Philharmonia / Furtwaengler live performance.
> This was given in the Royal Albert Hall, May 22nd, 1950. Flagstad was 55 years old then. It was pirated at the rehearsals and issued by Cetra. DavidA would have a fit at the sound but hard luck ,you want to hear Flagstad at her best in this then you are stuck with it.
> The Schwarzkopf recording to go for is the 1965 EMI recording with George Sell and the Berlin Radio symphony Orchestra.
> ...


Why should I have a fit at the sound? If it is bad I simply do not listen. Also, if the recorded sound is bad we do not hear Flagstad at her best. She may have been at her best the night she sang but we can't hear it if the sound is bad, except in our imaginings!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pip said:


> I
> Karajan's interpretation was equally fine, but Janowitz's voice had that tubular quality that I personally don't take to.


Interesting this matter of personal taste. It is that quality in Janowitz's voice that I love. To me it is beauty personified.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Interesting this matter of personal taste. It is that quality in Janowitz's voice that I love. To me it is beauty personified.


Bravo David, that is why so many of these comparison threads are so difficult for others to follow. It is such a subjective thing about why you may like A and I prefer B. no matter who says what! we still maintain our own preferences.
When I hear Lucia Popp's voice in Beim Schlafengehen, I just melt. That does not mean anyone else will.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pip said:


> Bravo David, that is why so many of these comparison threads are so difficult for others to follow. It is such a subjective thing about why you may like A and I prefer B. no matter who says what! we still maintain our own preferences.
> When I hear Lucia Popp's voice in Beim Schlafengehen, I just melt. That does not mean anyone else will.


Agreed! This is why attempts by critics to find a 'best' version tend to be futile. Given general excellence of singing, playing and conducting that we expect on disc today, it all boils down to personal preference. For example, some swear by Della Casa / Bohm. The singing is indeed wonderful but for me Bohm is just too fast. But for others it's just right.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

This is why attempts by critics to find a 'best' version tend to be futile.

In many instances... certainly on works that loom this large among the core repertoire... one can speak of a good number of "essential" recordings... each of which brings something unique to our understanding and appreciation of the work. I cannot imagine being without Janowitz, Schwarzkopf, Fleming, della Casa, or any number of other recordings.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

My greatest regret is that Furtwängler, having promised a dying Strauss that he would perform the Lieder,and did, never followed it up by recording it. Possibly because Flagstad did not want to, and he would do it with no one else?
I can imagine that Walter Legge would have wanted to, but only with Mrs Legge as soloist. 
Although Legge was Furtwängler's HMV producer and impressario of the Philharmonia orchestra, and had a great deal to do with each other, they disliked each other intensely, culminating in Furwängler forbidding Legge's presense in the studio during the Tristan sessions in 1952(which Legge was producing). Legge had his revenge when he used Madam(his wife) to interpolate the high "c"s into Flagstad's performance (which was agreed by all) - the revenge was leaking it to the press later.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I got to know the _Vier letzte Lieder_ from Schwarzkopf's 1965 recording with Szell, a disc that was one of EMI's best sellers for many years, and continued to be when reissued on CD.

I actually now have all three of Schwarzkopf's recordings , including the 1953 and the live 1956 with, respectively, Ackermann and Karajan.

I have to say, that, though I enjoy all three, it is the Szell recording I like best, as, for me, it gets right to the heart of these songs as no others do. With Strauss's gorgeous writing for the soprano voice, it is all too easy to forget that these are Lieder, and to ignore the texts and just revel in the sheerly beautiful sounds, provided by a Te Kanawa, a Fleming, or indeed a Janowitz. I also feel the more mature Schwarzkopf better suited to the songs than the young one. After all, these are Autumnal songs, and the voice of youth doesn't seem quite right somehow. Certain phrases in Swhwarzkopf's later recording are now so firmly etched into my memory, that they spoil me for all others and Schwarzkopf and Szell seem to be completely at one in their vision. Let me give two examples; Schwarzkopf's gentle voicing of the words _langsam tut er die mudgewordenen Augen zu_ in *September*, where Szell matches her tone perfectly in the orchestra, the horn's final phrases perfectly judged. Another is in the final song, *Im Abendrot*. The way Schwarzkopf sings the words _so tief im Abendrot_ has an almost cathartic release, not matched in any of her other recordings (nor by any other soprano), and superbly seconded by the rich carpet of sound Szell provides for her. _Ist dies etwa der Tod_, asks Schwarzkopf/Eichendorff, and as the orchestra creeps in with the quote from *Tod und Verklaerung*, one can only assume that it is. For me it is one of the classic discs of all time, and would definitely be one for my desert island.

That said, I do enjoy and own other versions.

Popp/Tennstedt is a treasurable memento of a Royal Festival Hall concert, where these same artists performed these songs. A wonderful occasion.
Janowitz/Karajan I enjoy for the beauty of the singing and the playing, which can be its own reward, though it does sometimes skate over the deeper meanings of the text.
Fleming/Thielemann is my modern version, and Fleming would seem to be to be the ideal interpreter, if she didn't occasionally mar the vocal line with jazzy swooping, that would be more in place in songs by Cole Porter. I am all in favour of _portamento_ correctly applied, but some of Fleming's just sound wrong to me, though I still consider her one of the great Strauss singers.


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

GregMitchell said:


> I got to know the _Vier letzte Lieder_ from Schwarzkopf's 1965 recording with Szell, a disc that was one of EMI's best sellers for many years, and continued to be when reissued on CD.
> 
> I actually now have all three of Schwarzkopf's recordings , including the 1953 and the live 1956 with, respectively, Ackermann and Karajan.
> 
> ...


Your post reminds me of another live Schwarzkopf performance, which I have, and indeed attended the concert in 1969, with the LSO and Barbirolli. It was a great concert( the Mozart 36 and Heldenleben were issued by BBC legends) She was in decent form, it took her two of the lieder to really warm up, them it was superb. It may well be one of the last times she performed it. It is a pity that the BBC could not release it. It was a great concert, and unfortunately it was the last time I saw JB live.
As for Fleming, I tend to agree, but I guess that I am lucky to have her live performance with Abbado and the Luzern Festival Orchestra in 2005. She was in the best of form that day and was not guilty of the swooping that you mention.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Janowitz/Karajan for me - just about perfect singing, tempo and collaboration.


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## hillisg (Dec 1, 2013)

One of my all-time favorite pieces. I love that moment when the Death and Transfiguration quote appears in Im abendrot. I have 7 or 8 different recordings, but the ones I keep coming back to are Popp/Tennstedt and Janowitz/Karajan. I just love Popp's voice in every recording I've heard her in.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Pip said:


> Your post reminds me of another live Schwarzkopf performance, which I have, and indeed attended the concert in 1969, with the LSO and Barbirolli. It was a great concert( the Mozart 36 and Heldenleben were issued by BBC legends) She was in decent form, it took her two of the lieder to really warm up, them it was superb. It may well be one of the last times she performed it. It is a pity that the BBC could not release it. It was a great concert, and unfortunately it was the last time I saw JB live.


And here it is on youtube


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

I am really enjoying Bohm/Della Casa live in Salzburg 30th July '58, just one day after she sang Arabella. Fresh, natural, direct and unforced. Different from the Decca studio record, which I do enjoy too. Minor quibbles like violin intonation and so on are easily forgotten here. Great album. Good investment.

















Keilberth's Arabella's delightful and the sound take's good -not always the case at Salzburg Festival.

Regards,

Vincula


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2020)

Popp, Tennstedt!! I also have Gundela Janowitz, who is also excellent. Jessye Norman completely overwhelmed the music, IMO, and I didn't like it for this reason.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Christabel said:


> Popp, Tennstedt!! I also have Gundela Janowitz, who is also excellent. Jessye Norman completely overwhelmed the music, IMO, and I didn't like it for this reason.


I actually heard Popp and Tennstedt perform the work at the Royal Festival Hall in London round about the time this recording was made, and a very memorable occasion it was.

I used not to like Jessye Norman's version much, but it has grown on me, though I still find Masur's slow speeds a bit hard to take. It starts slow and just gets slower and slower until it grinds to a halt. Jessye sounds glorious though and I don't think she overwhelms the music at all. One should remember Kirsten Flagstad was the soloist at the premiere.

My preferences change from time to time but, for now, my preferences are

1. Schwarzkopf/Szell
2. Popp/Tennstedt
3. Fleming/Thielemann
4. Schwarzkopf/Ackermann
5. Norman/Masur


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I have Janowitz/Karajan and Norman/Masur and question whether either of them is "the one for me", or maybe it's just that I don't seem to love these songs as much as most people. I need to try Szell/Schwartzkopf and maybe Tennstedt/Popp.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> I have Janowitz/Karajan and Norman/Masur and question whether either of them is "the one for me", or maybe it's just that I don't seem to love these songs as much as most people. I need to try Szell/Schwartzkopf and maybe Tennstedt/Popp.


I have Janowitz/Karajan too and it's dropped slightly in my estimation. Karajan provides a rich carpet of sound and Janowitz soars impertubably over it, but I now find it a little lacking in depth.

I got to know the work through Schwarzkopf/Szell and that could of course colour my reactions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I have Janowitz/Karajan too and it's dropped slightly in my estimation. Karajan provides a rich carpet of sound and Janowitz soars impertubably over it, but I now find it a little lacking in depth.
> 
> I got to know the work through Schwarzkopf/Szell and that could of course colour my reactions.


"imperturbable" is a perfect description of much of Janowitz's work. Lucky for her, the songs are so sensuously beautiful that they sound good with no interpretation whatsoever.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> "imperturbable" is a perfect description of much of Janowitz's work. Lucky for her, the songs are so sensuously beautiful that they sound good with no interpretation whatsoever.


This is true, and I know many people like to bask in the beauty without paying too much heed to their meaning. I can understand that, but personally I prefer and interpretation that takes more account of the words.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I’m pretty sure I started a Four Last Songs thread a few years ago. I must look for it.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> I'm pretty sure I started a Four Last Songs thread a few years ago. I must look for it.


I think there's more than one. I'm sure I've contributed to quite a few :tiphat:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I think there's more than one. I'm sure I've contributed to quite a few :tiphat:


Actually, it's rare not to find one in progress. Every time I go on the forum I wonder whether perhaps a fifth last song has been discovered. If it ever is, we'll know that the _zwei Lerchen_ weren't singing about death after all.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Jessye Norman tops my list.


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