# How to persuade people to listen to clasical music



## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

Most of my friends don't like classical music very much.
Most of PEOPLE in general, don't like classical music very much, and this is sad, IMO.
They don't really know what they are missing.
How to persuade them to listen to classical music without sounding as a snob?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

YOU TAKE BLOODY GUN AND PUT IT AGAINST ONE'S BLASTED HEAD AND SAY: LISTEN TO THE GODDAM MOZART YOU FRIGGIN' BITCH

Bronson ->


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

> YOU TAKE TAKE BLOODY GUN AND PUT IT AGAINS ONE'S BLASTED HEAD AND SAY: LISTEN TO THE GODDAM MOZART YOU FRIGGIN' BITCH


Yeah sure, that would be effective! 

Is there maybe some less drastic method?


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes, it's sometimes difficult to get people to listen to classical music.But it's by no means impossible This is a subject very close to my heart. I'm always trying to interest people in it.
Whenever possible, among my friends or people I meet,I try to interest them,and tell them how enjoyable it can be.
But unfortunately, there's a pernicious myth surrounding classical music,namely the notion that it's "stuffy","bpring" and "elistist", and not something that "normal" people would ever want to listen to.
This myth is badly in need of debunking. For example,many people who know nothing about opera have a stereotypical image of it in their heads as a kind of ridiculous social occaision with 
wealthy bored people sitting in their boxes,dressed to the nines to show off their finery,yawning while fat people in ridiculous Viking costumes scream at each other in some incomprehesible language.
These wealthy people are at the opera just to show off their finery,see and be seen ,and they couldn't care less about the opera itself.
But these unfortunate people have never actually been to a performance of an opera, or a concert by a great orchestra etc. They don't realize that most of the people who go to concerts and opera are there because they love this kind of music, and that they're really caught up with what is going on on stage.
The peeople who think opera is ridiculous have never seen Anna Netrebko,Renee Fleming,Angela Gheorghiu or Roberto Alagna, good-looking singers who can really act and who are as charismatic(and much more talented) than most movie stars.
For some years now,I've been doing work with classical music programs for elderly and infirm people and ones with disabilities such as Cerebral Plasy etc. SOme of these people are already classical music fans, but by no means alll. 
At the nursing home in New Rochelle,just north of New York where I do a program playing classical CDs for residents and telling them about the composers and their works,I'm always trying to get more residents to come, but it's not always easy to get them to.
I'm hoping to expand my classical music programs,and to reach more people who know little or nothing about classical music, and to get them to make it a part of their lives.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> as a kind of ridiculous social occaision with
> wealthy bored people sitting in their boxes,dressed to the nines to show off their finery,yawning while fat people in ridiculous Viking costumes scream at each other in some incomprehesible language.


I think I've seen this one before. Didn't you just repeat your other post word after word?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

YOU TAKE BLOODY GUN AND PUT IT AGAINST ONE'S BLASTED HEAD AND SAY: LISTEN TO THE GODDAM MOZART YOU FRIGGIN' BITCH

That might even work with Schoenberg.


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

Thanks Superhorn, this was a great response.
Yes, this myth is very pervasive. Even some very smart and educated people are brainwashed with this myth. And those who are not brainwashed maybe simply aren't patient enough to listen to any piece longer than few minutes, so most of the classic repertoire is beyond their attention span.
Maybe they should first try more accessible compositions.
The bad thing is that those "more accessible" compositions can be judged as cheesy. So, I'd rather suggest them something solid, yet well known. Beethoven's Fifth for example. Everyone knows the beginning of first movement, but not so many people are familiar with the entire symphony. So, if I could get them somehow to listen to the Fifth in its entirety, that would be a great first step.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

First, I think you want to dispel some of the more common stereotypes associated with Classical music. Also, be sure to point out that there are MANY different styles, so if they don't happen to like one piece, they shouldn't judge all classical music based on that.
If it is someone you know well you may want to taylor your suggestions after what you think might appeal to them based on their current musical tastes.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Personally, I think it fails to try to persuade just anyone to like classical music. I think it's only best to introduce it to people who are musicians, because they understand music better. I don't believe in forceful persuasion, that only scares them away all the more.

But say... introducing classical music to children, that works. They still have a conscience at that age, and aren't so biased, so they're more open to beautiful things.





 I think this was a cute idea, I'm sure you've heard of similar experiments.


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## jimread (Jun 20, 2010)

I ask anyone who'll listen to me to pop round and have a listen to my 'proper' stereo setup, so that they can understand how to do their own and would they like to bring one of their favourite CD's.

One person springs to mind who liked drumming, after listening to a Ginger Baker solo, which was very good indeed, I played that bit from the last movement of Beethoven's 9th that is very rythmic and asked him if he'd liked to hear the whole movement. 

Of course he'd heard the theme from it before, thought Beethoven was a stuffed shirt git (which of course he was) but didn't realise that the bloke was also a genius, he was genuinely overwhelmed by the experience and became a Beethoven freak.

So go forth, don't be shy, if you've listened to something the night before, tell everyone you meet, it's amazing how an invitation breaks the ice and forges new friendships.

Jim


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't try. I just enjoy it a lot myself and hope others will catch on - or not.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Yeah, I think you can't persuade people to like classical music (or literature or visual art). They have to form an interest and nurture it over many years. In a way, they have to come to persuade themselves.

But I think that many people do like classical music at some level, they just aren't aware of this. For example, they might see a movie which uses classical music, and enjoy that. Such people might buy the soundtrack, and start exploring from there. There have also been some very good and accessible documentaries about the lives of the composers, and many people love these. One is the TV series Classical Destinations, presented by Simon Callow, and produced right here in Australia. I have these on DVD, and even for someone like me who has been passionate about this for all his life, it is still interesting (and the locations were the composers lived and worked are filmed stunningly). I lent these to two friends, and they loved them so much that they bought them themselves.

But as the American composer Ned Rorem once said (to paraphrase him): "There are many problems in contemporary classical music; the biggest problem is to (actually) find an audience." He was talking more about C20th/21st classical music, but I think that this can also apply to classical music in general...


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

Andre said:


> But I think that many people do like classical music at some level, they just aren't aware of this. For example, they might see a movie which uses classical music, and enjoy that.


This is what is frustrating to me. There ought to be more general exposure in the public for classical music-- instead, you mostly get stereotypes of listeners, composers & performers but not much about the _music _itself. And unfortunately there are a lot of people who barely skim the surface, so that classical music means either (a) Orff O Fortuna / Holst Mars / Mansell Requiem for a Dream melodrama or (b) watered down easy listening.

When I discovered classical music as a teenager, I had to struggle just to find something-- anything-- to find out what this music was all about-- I was on my own (of course this was long before the internet too).

In spite of my cynicism, I do believe that if classical music was more easily available for listening, docos, radio, etc. and less of the BS stereotypes, I think more people would be interested. Most people don't even know this stuff even exists! (in the US that certainly seems to be the case at any rate)

Its a vicious circle: Classical music gets less exposure and backing by the media, and so people are less inclined to take an interest. People are less inclined to take an interest, so the media reduces exposure and backing. Ad nauseum.


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## Random (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm greedy, I want to keep the music to myself.

Shouldn't the few who sought and understand it be the fortunate ones to enjoy the bliss it brings?


I honestly believe the world would be a better place if everyone listened to classical, but I think it's foolish to hope that the majority of the population will every enjoy it, so why even try.

Greed...for lack of a better word..is good. - Gordon Gecko.




Yes?....or is this another situation where I should once again label myself insane?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

& I think we as classical music lovers should really support our many fine local ensembles, and maybe even invite partners, family, friends to a concert or two, even though they may not be so inclined. There is so much live music being played here in Sydney, it is just astounding. & often the smaller the group, the more interesting the repertoire. I'm not really interested in going to see the Berlin Philharmonic when they come here live in November. In any case, I can't affort it (tickets range from $495-$89). But the "latest" thing in their program is Berg's _Three Pieces for Orchestra_. No wonder many people think that classical music is elitist and a case of all the composers being dead. We should support our local smaller ensembles who are playing music that is more diverse and interesting than the repertoire of the bigger and mass marketed groups. I think that classical music can only gain real popularity if it is a grass roots process, started from the bottom up, not by the big brand names. Like what the environmentalists say, "Think global, act local"...


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

One of the greatest dangers we face when trying to get people to listen to classical comes from the fact that they have already heard main theme of the most well known pieces, so if we recommend them to listen to it they can start laughing and say "What? This?! I've heard it 100 times before, dude, it's boring, don't you have some better?" They will jump to this conclusion even BEFORE listening to the whole piece (which of course contains great parts that they have never heard). This happened to me yesterday. There was a girl in my house and I tried to get her to listen to some classical, and I, thinking that more easily accessible piece would do the job of hooking her, made a huge mistake - I played "Four Seasons" by Vivaldi and as soon as she heard opening tune from "Spring" she started laughing - "Oh, I know it, give me something better" Of course, she didn't have the patience to listen to the entire piece. Maybe I should have started with less well known, but still great parts, from Summer, Autumn or Winter.
If we, however go with more obscure piece, they might find it inaccessible.


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## Ernie (Jun 6, 2010)

I taught high school choral music for 34 years so I had an advantage - I got to pick the music. At the beginning of each year the complaints from my students were rampant. By the end of the year, "classical" music was all they wanted to sing. It's much easier to appreciate the beauty of good music when you actually perform it. I felt it was my job and duty to expose my students to the best that music had to offer. Their favorites were:

Brahms Requiem (1st and 4th movements)
Bruckner - e minor mass (1st movement)
Bruckner - Christus Factus Est
Randall Thompson - Alleluia

I'm quite certain that this exposure, at the very least, eliminated the knee-jerk negative reaction to classical music that many students came to me with. I hope I'm right.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I don't care much for convincing people. If they prefer there 4-chord music, that's damned fine by me. At least it mean I don't have to play the blue danube over and over again.


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> YOU TAKE BLOODY GUN AND PUT IT AGAINST ONE'S BLASTED HEAD AND SAY: LISTEN TO THE GODDAM MOZART YOU FRIGGIN' BITCH
> 
> That might even work with Schoenberg.


Not Boulez though


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

What I have learned is that at first, keep it short and memorable. Don't let them listen to a symphony, that's way too intimidating. Start with little solo pieces, and work your way up.

I believe that most people love classical music, they just don't know it yet.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2010)

We talk about how people have a mistaken impression that classical music is for snobs, and then we ridicule the general population when they show some appreciation for classical pieces that we don't quite think are good enough (a comment earlier about Orff's Carmina Burana/O Fortuna, Holst's Mars, and I have also read on occasion people deriding the general public liking Beethoven's Fur Elise). What I am trying to say is we want them to like classical music more, but then laugh at them for what classical music they do like. 

People will like what they will like. You can't force it on them. And honestly, when in history have the works that we now revere been widely listened to and enjoyed by the general public? Maybe some of the religious works, which would have been performed in churches where all could attend. But do you think your average Austrian hopped over to the Eszterhazy's estate to listen to the latest work of Haydn's? How many normal citizens had the spare change to purchase tickets to attend a performance at an opera house, or concert hall? In all reality, it probably was not until radio and recordings came around that this music became more accessible to people with more meager incomes. I suspect that a higher proportion of non-aristocratic people know the works of the masters than when they were still alive. How many working class people do you think would recognize the opening to Beethoven's 5th symphony today compared to the 19th century? Or Bach's Tocatta and Fugue? Or Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik?

And don't forget that classical music borrowed much from what was popular at the time. Many of the styles incorporated into classical had origins in more pedestrian music, or dance music, or what have you. It was never the only music out there. 

Can you persuade people to listen to classical music? Sure. Some. Never all. Some will enjoy it. Some will not. For the same reason that some will enjoy Boulez and Schoenberg, while others won't. Some will love Wagner, and some will not. Some will think Beethoven the greatest composer to ever live, while others will prefer Haydn. 

So what if most people will know nothing more of classical than Beethoven's 5th Symphony/1st Movement, or Ode to Joy from his 9th, or Handel's Hallelujah chorus, or Beethoven's Fur Elise, or Tchaikovsky's Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies, or Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or Wagner's Flight of the Valkyries, or Brahms' Lullaby. In time that may grow. But probably not by persuasion.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Benjamin Zander has some ideas in this wonderful talk on music and passion on TED (my favourite internet site apart from Talk classical)


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

DrMike said:


> We talk about how people have a mistaken impression that classical music is for snobs, and then we ridicule the general population when they show some appreciation for classical pieces that we don't quite think are good enough (a comment earlier about Orff's Carmina Burana/O Fortuna, Holst's Mars, and I have also read on occasion people deriding the general public liking Beethoven's Fur Elise). What I am trying to say is we want them to like classical music more, but then laugh at them for what classical music they do like.


I don't think I was clear in what I was getting at in that comment: There are people who get a very narrow notion of what good classical music is and expect more music along the lines of these two famous pieces of music (I enjoy both _Camina Burana_ and _The Planets_ -- they are both fine pieces of music). Because there isn't a lot of music out there that fits such a strict definition, they turn to vacuous music like Clint Mansell's _Requiem for a Dream_, or even video game music. They don't _want _classical music, but a _facsimile _of it, and anything that falls outside those narrow parameters ends up largely ignored (large orchestra with chorus, minor key, gothic sounding melodrama).

My problem is not that they like Holst or Orff, but rather that, in order to get more music that sounds like that, they turn to cheap facsimiles of classical music rather than delve further into, you know, _actual _classical music. "Delving further" might simply mean "Fur Elise" or Pachelbel's _Canon _or even Ravel's _Bolero_ (all perfectly good pieces of classical) and great stepping stones to more deeper pieces. But I haven't seen that sort of thing among the Mansell-type listeners. They don't want even _that _kind of variety. They want more of this, this or this, or this. Or this.

^ That is what I'm referring to. (it was depressing just linking to those, just from a quick search on YouTube)


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## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Benjamin Zander has some ideas in this wonderful talk on music and passion on TED (my favourite internet site apart from Talk classical)


Great talk!


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Whistlerguy, your comment about people not wanting to hear anything in classical works beyond familiar themes reminds me of a hilarious episode on the Simpsons,which you may have seen.
The famous architect Frank Gehry,who lent his voice to the episode,is commisioned to design a new concert hall for Springfield,home to the Springfield Philharmonic. The orchestra begins to play Beethoven's fifth at the inaugural concert, and every one starts leaving because they've already heard Da-da-da-daaah so many times,and some have it as their ring tones. 
When Marge Simpson asks them to stay in order to hear a work by Philip Glass, they start stampeding out even more furiously! 
Soon, the concert hall has to close because of a lack of an audience,and the awful Mr. Burns buys it and turns it into a private prison! Funny, but poignant.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio 
YOU TAKE BLOODY GUN AND PUT IT AGAINST ONE'S BLASTED HEAD AND SAY: LISTEN TO THE GODDAM MOZART YOU FRIGGIN' BITCH

That might even work with Schoenberg.



Il Seraglio said:


> Not Boulez though


Death... or Boulez...? Tough choice.


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## janne (Apr 13, 2010)

This is a very interesting thread.

Not long ago I could not tell the difference between a sonata-allegro form movement, a theme and variation movement, a rondo form movement. I knew what a baroque concerto was but I could not explain it in musical terms, it just sounded more baroque than a Mozart concerto. I could hear the difference between a viennese classical symphony and a romantic symphony but same there, I could not explain it.
I also percieved a classical work only as a whole. I didn't hear that Haydns symphony 84 began with an exposition, then moving into a development and ending with a recapitulation. I just heard music.

Then things began to happen. I was reading about it and gained a knowledge of musical language(although still a brief knowledge). Suddenly I could hear things that was obscured to me. It's a deeper understanding and that really gave me a totally new and much deeper understanding of how the composers of different era organized their music.

For example, you can listen to a sonata-allegro movement without knowing what sonata form is. You will hear just music.
When you know it's a sonata-allegro form movement you will suddenly percieve the different parts. You will hear the exposition, the development and the recapitulation. You can appreciate and understand when composers stay true to form and when they break the rules only if you know what is going on.


I cant really explain this better. Suffice it to say that language and knowledge affected the the listening experience for me. 

Pointing a gun to someones head wont do, because they wont hear more anyway. However, if you tell them about the piece they are going to listen to, the story behind it, the structure and form of it, then perhaps they will also get a richer listening experience.


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## Whistlerguy (May 26, 2010)

> Not long ago I could not tell the difference between a sonata-allegro form movement, a theme and variation movement, a rondo form movement. I knew what a baroque concerto was but I could not explain it in musical terms, it just sounded more baroque than a Mozart concerto. I could hear the difference between a viennese classical symphony and a romantic symphony but same there, I could not explain it.
> I also percieved a classical work only as a whole. I didn't hear that Haydns symphony 84 began with an exposition, then moving into a development and ending with a recapitulation. I just heard music.


I'm still in this phase, but I enjoy it nevertheless. I hope though I will learn some theory as well. Actually, I already know some theory, but not very much.


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## wolf (May 16, 2009)

"Folly, folly, everywhere folly". Guess who said THAT? To think that you are actually racking your brains with this idiotic and useless plan. What would be the use? Are you actually thinking that you are better persons? A 35 year old man for example, don't you think that he has heard classical music thousands of times,at school, in radio, TV, as background music, in films, in churches etc etc. Don't you think that he can decide for himself what he wants to hear? No, no, YOU will drag him to a concert, and HEUREKA! The 1.056th time he heard classical, he finally succumbed. Thanks to YOU, no doubt.


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## janne (Apr 13, 2010)

wolf said:


> "Folly, folly, everywhere folly". Guess who said THAT? To think that you are actually racking your brains with this idiotic and useless plan. What would be the use? Are you actually thinking that you are better persons? A 35 year old man for example, don't you think that he has heard classical music thousands of times,at school, in radio, TV, as background music, in films, in churches etc etc. Don't you think that he can decide for himself what he wants to hear? No, no, YOU will drag him to a concert, and HEUREKA! The 1.056th time he heard classical, he finally succumbed. Thanks to YOU, no doubt.


I don't believe I'm a better person in any way just because I listen to classical music. I'm still an ******* every now and then.
But this 35-year old man (very fitting description on me) who has heard the opening movement of Vivaldis La primavera 1000 times without knowing anything about baroque concertos or without knowing anything about the form in which it's written is clearly missing important stuff.


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## Camilla (Apr 7, 2010)

I have some friends who don't or have never really listened to classical music, but I find Birthdays a good opportunity to introduce them to it! Seeing as it's my birthday, they can't really refuse 

I have invited them along for recitals, and they do now often say that classical music is beautiful but boring. 

I don't force my musical taste on my friends, but I will recommend certain pieces. I have found that a lot of groups at the moment, such as Il Divo are opening up opera to different people. Although, yes, it is more contemporary pop opera, it's a good start.


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

I've invited some co-workers (four takers!) to a local concert (in September): Shostakovich's _Festive Overture_ (which I don't know), Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1, and Rimsky-Korsakov's _Scheherezade_ (the main attraction for me).

Two of them have really no familiarity at all with classical music; I think one is in the "I-like-a-little-bit-of-classical" camp; and another co-worker who has been to a few other local concerts on her own before (I encouraged her to go and I've made a few CDs for her in the past). It should be fun-- at least I hope so!

If I stumble on anyone that expresses the slightest interest in classical music, I will often burn them a few CDs to give them a taste of things (I base the selections on whatever I can pick up on any other interests and go from there). I've had a few very modest successes in the past, but not much.

I do think concerts are still the best way to introduce people unfamiliar with classical-- its more engaging that sitting in front of an electronic machine for an hour.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Earthling said:


> I've invited some co-workers (four takers!) to a local concert (in September): Shostakovich's _Festive Overture_ (which I don't know), Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1, and Rimsky-Korsakov's _Scheherezade_ (the main attraction for me).


What a great Russian concert program!!

But anyways, I've only done a little music sharing before, and was specifically with sharing one composer. I got a huge success with one person by accident, a slight nod with another, and a "Maybe I'll try that" with another. And they were all musicians whom I shared this composer with, I don't think really anyone else would have cared.

I'm really careful about who I share what with, because I have been burned in the past, and by people I didn't expect.


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## stephcre8ive (Jun 29, 2010)

Introducing friends to classical crossover music could work to kind of _wean_ them into it, no?
For example, Katherine Jenkins, Russell Watson are classical singers but are very well-known by non-classical music fans.


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## Sebastian (Jun 18, 2010)

I find it's difficult. The person has to either be extremely open minded or already interested in a bit of classical music. For example, I have a friend who's a well-known pop singer in Germany. I showed her some Schubert and Delius songs to show her examples of what I considered to be more 'sophisticated' songs and lyrics. While she was full of praise and quite interested, she hasn't really pursued that much further. 

I've kind of given up on forcing my likes and dislikes onto other people. To really appreciate classical music probably takes a a good deal of familiarity with it, and things like basic harmony and orchestration. This is more effort than people are willing to invest, unless they're aesthetes (like everyone here! )


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Weston said:


> I don't try. I just enjoy it a lot myself and hope others will catch on - or not.


Same here. If someone shows an interest I'll try to be helpfull. If not, I don't waste my time on them. They usually think they know best anyway, so why bother? Having said that, I'm all for trying to expand the audience for classical music. I'm just not one of those people capable of doing that because I'm neither persuasive or patient enough.


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## stephcre8ive (Jun 29, 2010)

hjane said:


> Introducing friends to classical crossover music could work to kind of _wean_ them into it, no?
> For example, Katherine Jenkins, Russell Watson are classical singers but are very well-known by non-classical music fans.


Maybe an event like this.. http://serenatafestival.com/ It has loads of things going on so even non-classical fans would enjoy the festival, but it is based around classical music, so getting a big feel for the music while enjoying the experience.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I think the best way to open anyone up to any music is through education... simply introducing alternatives to that which they have been reared upon. I would assume that a vast majority of people develop their tastes in music based upon what their parents and peers listened to. A few will seek out alternatives on their own just as they might explore art or literature, but many others never try anything beyond that which they are accustomed to largely because they have never had the chance and they fear the negative opinions of peers and friends. A great many people's tastes in music never moves beyond that which they have experienced in high school. I've probably converted most of those around me through continually playing various works of classical music and talking about it... and yes... most importantly... taking them to the experience of such music live.


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## Earthling (May 21, 2010)

For what its worth (which may not be much), once or twice a week, I send out emails to family and friends in my address book containing a YouTube link-- usually to a live concert performance of a classical piece. I tend to keep it light, and usually short (sometimes only one movement from a larger work), but something that I hope might catch their attention, with just a little bit of information about the composer and the piece. Its sort of like slowly DJ-ing through email LOL

Has it worked? Probably not-- I rarely ever get any responses. For all I know, most of them could be just deleting the emails. However, I couldn't believe my mother really enjoyed the Wagner Prelude/Liebestod from _Tristan und Isolde_ though, and my dad said he cried hearing the slow movement from Beethoven's last quartet. I've gotten a couple other very brief responses from a few friends, but not much. Some people enjoyed _The Planets_, which I dubbed "an interplanetary tour," and sent one movement out every three days.

Will they listen to more on their own? It doesn't seem likely. But I figure if people can send out emails of really inane jokes or "funny pictures" or news articles, etc. then surely people can take a mere 10 or 15 minutes out of their entire week to sit down and listen to a bit of new music. And if they don't bother, that's fine too, but at least its a tiny opportunity to hear something they might otherwise would know nothing about or even where to begin.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Earthling said:


> For what its worth (which may not be much), once or twice a week, I send out emails to family and friends in my address book containing a YouTube link-- usually to a live concert performance of a classical piece. I tend to keep it light, and usually short (sometimes only one movement from a larger work), but something that I hope might catch their attention, with just a little bit of information about the composer and the piece. Its sort of like slowly DJ-ing through email LOL


Well, that's a very good idea. I might try that too; keeping it light/accessible style music and relatively short. Not expecting much but if that introudces some folks to classical music, no matter how superficial even if they listen no more, then that's better than a lot of junk/jokes email that get sent around like you said.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

I think there is an age-related aspect to this question of how to encourage others to appreciate classical music. It is probably much more of problem as seen by people who are still at school or college than it is for older students or older people generally. The younger members of society who like/prefer classical music to other genres are far more likely to face leg-pulling over their musical tastes than older people. This may well lead the victims of such behaviour wanting to respond by persuading their critics that classical music is something they should try to get into as well. However, as one gets older this problem tends to subside, both in terms of the inclination to want to criticise the musical choice of others and the inclination of those being criticised to wish to defend their preferences. In the end the problem disappears. Speaking personally, I couldn't give a damn what type of music other people like and I sure as hell don't aim to persuade anyone to enjoy classical music who isn't already into it. If they haven't discovered classical music by their own devices by middle age then there's virtually no hope, or none that I can usefully offer.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> However, as one gets older this problem tends to subside, both in terms of the inclination to want to criticise the musical choice of others and the inclination of those being criticised to wish to defend their preferences. In the end the problem disappears.


What you are talking about is not strictly related to music, is natural law that makes older people don't care about anything except their own, personal world. They get used to all bad things about our reality (eg. the fact that not all people are insterested in art and beauty) so they just smoke their pipe in rocking chair. It has nothing to do with matureness, it's the same thing that makes people lose interest in opposite sex and stuff. The musical menopause.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

Aramis said:


> What you are talking about is not strictly related to music, is natural law that makes older people don't care about anything except their own, personal world. They get used to all bad things about our reality (eg. the fact that not all people are insterested in art and beauty) so they just smoke their pipe in rocking chair. It has nothing to do with matureness, it's the same thing that makes people lose interest in opposite sex and stuff. The musical menopause.


Yes, I would accept that my comment was not solely related to music. I would suggest that the zeal some people have to reform the "world" - whichever aspects of it especially interests them - according to one's own tastes and preferences, tends to reach a crescendo around the years 18-21, and thereafter to decline. Perhaps it's because people who have gained those extra years have witnessed for themselves just how many of their own ideas were so screwed up in their earlier years, or maybe it's because they realise how futile it is to change other peoples' opinions. We've seen plenty evidence of this on the various religious threads, which I have found to be extremely useless and tedious.

I'm not sure what you mean by people losing interest in "opposite sex and stuff" as they get older. If that is true, which I very much doubt, it is a completely separate matter to what I was referring to.

On the subject of classical music, I don't happen to believe it is any better than most other genres. I say this as someone who greatly prefers classical music to all others, and someone who has collected thousands of classical CDs over some 25 years. I can well understand the opinions of many others (the vast majority) who say that a lot of it is boring, repetitive, dull, depressing, if not utter crap. In fact, I would probably agree with them that a lot of classical music is pretty crappy. The more I listen to it the more selective I have become. From being madly in love with virtually it all in my youth, I hardly play 90% of my collection any more.

I have no mission to educate other people in anything, least of all their musical tastes. I'm sure that most of them wouldn't listen to me if I suddenly started up a discussion along those lines. And if anyone pretended to be interested I wouldn't trust that they were being serious. It would like those very shallow people one hears about who "suddenly see the light" after chatting with some Mormon or Jehovah Witness, or suchlike missionary, on their doorstep. These people aren't genuine converts as they would believe anything you tell them.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> I'm not sure what you mean by people losing interest in "opposite sex and stuff" as they get older.


All things that are passing with age but can't be considered matter of experience and understanding. 80-years old men don't feel the need to seduce females because they passed their age of "reproduction". People at that age often lose determination to achieve some goals in life, they just don't care about most of those things anymore. That doesn't mean that doing all mentioned things is immature. Same is with will to make other people listen to classical. If one belives that it's high and valueable art it's natural that he would like to make other people appreciate it. That is not naive "sin of youth", it's positive thing and if one loses this will with age it's not getting mature, it's getting numb.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Opal said:


> ... I say this as someone who greatly prefers classical music to all others, and someone who has collected thousands of classical CDs over some 25 years.


Impressive. May I enquire which genre, periods and composers you enjoy relatively more?


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## 151 (Jun 14, 2010)

You need to be "hip to the game." 

The TED talk was spot on.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Impressive. May I enquire which genre, periods and composers you enjoy relatively more?


Ah well, since you ask, my classical music interests cover more or less everything apart from Second Viennese School and contemporary classical music (although there are some works among these that I quite enjoy).

I've had various "fads" over my listening career centred on different composers. For what I would regard as the top "guns" - Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Handel, Haydn, Liszt Mendelssohn, Mozart, Schubert, Schumann, Tchaikovsky, Wagner - I have virtually everything they wrote of any significance. In some cases I went out of my way to acquire everything they wrote purely as a matter of policy. However, these composers are only the tip of the iceberg. In total I have nearly 300 composers' works from 1100 onwards. Roughly half of my collection is on CD, about a quarter from downloads, and the rest from various good quality radio broadcasts. Excluding duplicated works, my collection exceeds 2000 hours of music. Including the different versions of various works (e.g. I have 6 sets of Brandenburgs, various sets of Beethoven symphonies, piano sonatas, string quartets, etc) the grand total is roughly 3000 hours.

Overall my focus of interest has narrowed considerably. The type of classical music that I actually go out of my way to listen to (as opposed to a lot of the stuff that happens to float over the air-waves by radio) comprises only roughly about 10% of my present collection. The strangest phenomenon is that I have virtually lost all of my former interest in opera, the path of which went from Mozart to Puccini to Verdi to Wagner and then finally to Purcell and Handel. I still retain a fairly keen interest in the last two but that's about all.

Here I must pause to relate an opera event I heard about an event on one of my favourite TV comedy programmes, "Shooting Stars". It's a very zany programme and probably wouldn't appeal to Americans. Famously, Larry Hagman (star of the 1980's "Dallas" series) was once a guest on the show, and because he didn't know the zany format of it he looked totally frightened at what was going on around him. Anyway, the event in question is that one of the team captains had an opera singer stand in front of him while singing _Nessun Dorma._ He was not allowed to flinch or laugh and a dead blue tit was placed on his head used as a "flinchometer". The dead Blue Tit fell off twice. I crease up every time I hear this piece of music, and can't take it (or anything like it) seriously any more.

J S Bach was at one time my overall favourite composer by quite a margin but he has slipped back relatively to such an extent that I rarely pick out any of his works, although I am still very happy to listen to anything that comes up on the radio. Another former favourite which I don't much care any longer is the heavy Romantic orchestral works a la Brahms, Mahler, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius et el. I never did like Mahler or Bruckner so there's no change there. Currently I am also beginning to lose interest in Classical symphonies and suchlike material.

I enjoy the instrumental and small-scale vocal works of Purcell, and the various concerti of Vivaldi. I still like the piano and chamber works of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Debussy, and Ravel. In the 2Oth Century I like the works of composers like Delius, Box, Walton, and Bartok. The orchestral works of the likes of Elgar, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams don't interest me greatly, save for the odd exception here and there. From once quite liking it I now almost cringe at the slushy sound of Elgar's Cello concerto. There are many similar works to this that I can hardly bring myself to listen to again, yet they were once among my favourites.

The moral from my experience is that it is possible to become over-enthusiastic about classical music in terms of the acquisition bug. As for the persistent attempts by some members here to encourage others to try out all the new material I can only say "balls to that, you'll very probably regret it". I don't expect anyone here to take the slightest bit of notice of my interests and experiences. Like the saying goes: _"you can't put an old head on young shoulders"_.

I bet, however, that sooner or later it will dawn on some of the more zealous types that one's interest in this subject of classical music doesn't necessarily go on increasing indefinitely, that it can peak, and in some cases it may actually decline in the sense that one's interests begin to focus and become more exclusive. In my case it took roughly 20 years for this to happen, so I'm not suggesting it will happen any time soon to any of the late teenagers who seem to be strongly represented on this Board. In the meantime, good luck to them.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Opal said:


> The moral from my experience is that it is possible to become over-enthusiastic about classical music in terms of the acquisition bug. As for the persistent attempts by some members here to encourage others to try out all the new material I can only say "balls to that, you'll very probably regret it".


Thanks for sharing, member Opal. It was interesting read.

Yes, "acquisition as a matter of policy" is a bug that seems to preoccupy my purchasing habit steadily over the last several years with my special "Tier One" group of composers, consisting of five listed in your second paragraph. What's impressive is that you have managed to do statistical numbers, such as number of hours worth of music. That's probably a sound guide as to the volume one has in the collection. Yours is an impressive amount. I would guess my hours might be half (or no more than two thirds) of your grand total hours?

The final Handel opera installment (for me) was released recently, completing my Handel opera collection: _Berenice_/Alan Curtis. Interesting you mentioned this composer. When played well (usually by HIP), his language was unique in characterizing human emotions from a _musical drama _point of view, I would say unparallel in all Baroque until Mozart.

As for the "new material", my relatively less extensive experience with this has been generally listenable, though many works works are unlikely to be repeatedly visited. Last night, I played a piano quintet by the Russian composer Schnittke for the first time. It was listenable as a one off, but that's about it for the mean time.


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## Toccata (Jun 13, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> What's impressive is that you have managed to do statistical numbers, such as number of hours worth of music. That's probably a sound guide as to the volume one has in the collection. Yours is an impressive amount. I would guess my hours might be half (or no more than two thirds) of your grand total hours?


 I think it's the only sensible approach. Counting umpteen copies of the same work and pretending they're different is a way of self-cheating in my opinion. This matter came on another thread recently where I posed the question of how to count multiple copies of the same work, but I didn't respond to the answer I received that all copies should be counted as separate works in terms of measuring the size of each composer's output one has.

It's an easy matter to work out the number of hours, as all I do is plonk a copy of each CD onto my PC, allocate the works to the relevant composer, and let Windows Media Player do the rest.

In the case of counting only one copy of each work, the highest numbers in my collection - circa 80 or 90 hours - cover the works of Bach Haydn and Mozart, whose works I have almost in their entirety. Beethoven and Schubert follow at about 60 hours each. I have most of Beethoven's output, including all Op works and most Woo and many Hess. For Schubert I have most but not all, but nothing of the remotest significance is excluded. I don't have all of Handel's works but a pretty good selection which weighs in at 45 hours.

Then there's a biggish gap down to about 30 hours which covers the entire works of Brahms and Schumann. After that I'm the mid 20's area with the likes of Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich. Then there's a very large number around the 20 hours mark. I have all or most of Chopin's output which comes in at around 18 hours.

It's interesting when you think about it that, for example, the entire works of Beethoven amount to some 60 hours, which is just under an average of 2 hours per year over his composing career of 34 years. It's perhaps not so large when looked at in this way. No wonder he spent so much time drinking. Sorry that's unfair but I've just listened to the author and newscaster John Suchet give an interesting talk about Beethoven (about whom he has written 6 books) in between this evening's two Proms performances of Beethoven's PC 1 and PC 4. How lucky we are to have these concerts; it's one consolation for living here, I guess. Anyway, as I already knew, Suchet commented that LvB was a right old boozer most of his adult life and died of advanced cirrhosis of the liver.



> The final Handel opera installment (for me) was released recently, completing my Handel opera collection: _Berenice_/Alan Curtis. Interesting you mentioned this composer. When played well (usually by HIP), his language was unique in characterizing human emotions from a _musical drama _point of view, I would say unparallel in all Baroque until Mozart.


Agreed in general. I don't have as much Handel as you evidently do, but I have most of his instrumental works. My favourite opera is Giulio Cesare.



> As for the "new material", my relatively less extensive experience with this has been generally listenable, though many works works are unlikely to be repeatedly visited. Last night, I played a piano quintet by the Russian composer Schnittke for the first time. It was listenable as a one off, but that's about it for the mean time.


Yes, I quite enjoy what little of Scnittke I do have. His Concerto for Viola, Suite in the Old Style, and the Sonata for Violin and Piano No 2 and worth getting, among several others.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Opal said:


> It's interesting when you think about it that, for example, the entire works of Beethoven amount to some 60 hours, which is just under an average of 2 hours per year over his composing career of 34 years. It's perhaps not so large when looked at in this way. No wonder he spent so much time drinking. Sorry that's unfair but I've just listened to the author and newscaster John Suchet give an interesting talk about Beethoven (about whom he has written 6 books) in between this evening's two Proms performances of Beethoven's PC 1 and PC 4. How lucky we are to have these concerts; it's one consolation for living here, I guess. Anyway, as I already knew, Suchet commented that LvB was a right old boozer most of his adult life and died of advanced cirrhosis of the liver.


That's an interesting way of looking at it. I thought of that idea a few years ago but obviously constrained by the number of hours of works I have of my "Tier one" composers at the time. One day I might be able to do my own comparison. 

Handel and Haydn come closest for me having their respective complete _oevures_, with Bach and Mozart nearing, too. My obvious gap with Haydn however, are some of his operas and his _Scottish songs_ (which _Haydn Trio Eisenstadt / Brilliant Classics_ has recently released a complete set of the latter). I recently picked up his complete baryton trios, too (_Esterházy Ensemble / Brilliant Classics_). It might take me a long listening period over a few years to go through them, but the satisfaction and consistency I get from his music is always reassuring.

Applying the "hours analysis" to Haydn, who was really a subservient employee type of composer for much of his composing life until J. Solomon brought him over to London, might show that despite all the routine type of works demanded by his employer (such as the symphonies and baryton trios), he never got bored with his routine productions.


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## Aggelos (May 29, 2009)

Whistlerguy said:


> Most of my friends don't like classical music very much.
> Most of PEOPLE in general, don't like classical music very much, and this is sad, IMO.
> They don't really know what they are missing.
> How to persuade them to listen to classical music without sounding as a snob?


Well first you have to introduce them motion picture score and make them love it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_score

Classical music is unfathomable-incomprehensible for those who don't know a thing about music, for those who do not learn music, for those who do not study music. Thus they will always be reluctant to listen to this kind of music. The complicated, cogitative, serious, pensive structure of classical music makes them find it totally unattractive, indigestible, unpalatable.

But motion pictures scores (*especially from the guys of Remote Control Productions*) are a linking between the past and present of the musical history-evolution. They utilize magnificent orchestrations- instrumentions, full-blooded orchestras and powerful - multifarious synthesizers. Besides motion pictures has as ancestors incidental music and symphonic poems.
They have 
-easy-to-understand motifs & structure, 
-appealing, attractive, arresting, thrilling, unforgettable cues & texture.
-diversiform synth lines and sythesizers.

*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Control_Productions
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/newsite.php?rub=rcprod*

*
So introduce your mateys to some awesome score composed by the guys of Remote Control productions :
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/newsite.php?rub=rcprodfiche&numid=1
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/newsite.php?rub=rcprodfiche&numid=2
*

So many classics.......
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/fr/newsite.php?rub=detail&id=81


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Aggelos said:


> Classical music is unfathomable-incomprehensible for those who don't know a thing about music, for those who do not learn music, for those who do not study music. Thus they will always be reluctant to listen to this kind of music. The complicated, cogitative, serious, pensive structure of classical music makes them find it totally unattractive, indigestible, unpalatable.


Totally disagree.

I have loved classical music since falling in love with the Rite of Spring age 12. I came from a non-musical background, never played an instrument, no music education at school whatsoever, didn't really start learning about music until I was 42 and took up piano. I agree that some knowledge gives a deeper appreciation but you can still love listening to it!


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## Aggelos (May 29, 2009)

mamascarlatti said:


> I have loved classical music since falling in love with the Rite of Spring age 12. I came from a non-musical background, never played an instrument, no music education at school whatsoever, didn't really start learning about music until I was 42 and took up piano. I agree that some knowledge gives a deeper appreciation but you can still love listening to it!


Fine, but this doesn't work out for everyone (to start listening to classical music and fall in love with it instantly)
So motion picture score is a good start, a good introduction, a first step before diving into the world of classical music especially for those who do not really like it.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

mamascarlatti said:


> Totally disagree.
> 
> I have loved classical music since falling in love with the Rite of Spring age 12. I came from a non-musical background, never played an instrument, no music education at school whatsoever, didn't really start learning about music until I was 42 and took up piano. I agree that some knowledge gives a deeper appreciation but you can still love listening to it!


The reason why a lot of people will never appreciate classical music is due to the fact that they can't bring themselves to sit down and really listen for more than a few minutes. If they try they get restless, the mind wanders and they get bored. It has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge but rather a lack of interest.


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## gmubandgeek (Jun 8, 2010)

This is a subject that is very touchy for me because even when I began college as a music major, I found classical music to be taxing. Every time I listened to Bach (or any other Baroque composer for that matter), I cringed, I found Mozart to be a little pretentious, and Beethoven to be over the top. And when we studied Schoenberg's twelve-toned technique, I was one day away from dropping the major. Luckily one of our musicologist talked me out of it by asking me what I looked for in music. I gravitate towards wit, humor and the unexpected. He then gave me a book of cd's containing all of Haydn's symphonies, and told me to start from the 94th symphony (the surprise) and go from there. After listening to Haydn's music I became hungry for and began to find out where Haydn got his influences. Now a days while my peers are going crazy over "artists" like Lady Gaga, I'm cranking out C.P.E Bach, J.C Bach, Mendelssohn, and now Mozart and Beethoven like it's fresh off the airwaves.

In summation, you have to understand the person in order to point them in the right direction. Find out what they look for in music, and try to match them up with a similar composer. I would try starting out with the familiar composers and then expand to those who are more obscure. There are literally hundreds of composers that aren't mainstream. And if all else fails, show them "Pachabel Rant" on youtube and make them realize that without classical music most of their favorite popular artists would not have any material.


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## lalalalalalala (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't think it's sad. 

I loved it while listening to Rach 2. Now I'm playing it 

When I was 13 I took piano lessons, it was a yawn I hated classical music...then came THE teacher- he played Rach 2. and I was like... I have to learn that. So now, I'm finally playing it! (At 15) My passion for music, and the expression- infects those around me. Then they want to learn more. I make CDs. I love to play personally for people, to compose for them- I help them to experience it. I don't try to shove it down their throats or lecture. People actually come to me to have me teach them piano, and about music in general. My enthusiasm for the piano, is well known around the school and community in which I live. I don't care about exposure of classical music. What about art for the sake of art?

The problem is, people are not passionate enough. They are too interested in the stage, the small fame that comes with classical music. Instead of people who play to play, who express to express. So personally, I know people are all concerned about classical music dying or not being exposed, but whatever. Nothing to stress about. Just be enthusiastic instead of all "Classical music is not for snobs, come to a concert!" It is, an elite art. It cannot help itself. Rich children are sent to play, it is a CULTURE. Rap has a culture, punk has a culture... the expression of certain music are meant for certain people. 

So yeah, and anyways, I sure as hell don't have enough time to argue with stupid people about how their music is better. Classical is the best... I mean, I don't feel like backing that up right now- but using my amazing intuition- I'm sure of it. If people are missing out on it, that's their fault. It's called youtube. What EVER. It ain't no thing.


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## Eminor (Aug 3, 2010)

Just get your instrument, find a good quiet street, then play it out hoping that the dumb will be moved.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Eminor said:


> Just get your instrument, find a good quiet street, then play it out hoping that the dumb will be moved.


Haha I could do that.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*I would suggest...*

*BLACK MAIL!!!!!!!!!*

lol

Martin Pitchon


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

How to get people interested in anything??

Show, don't tell.

That's the only sensible approach.


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## bassClef (Oct 29, 2006)

Oh leave them alone. If they are happy watching X-factor week after week and thinking that's the pinnacle of human musical achievement, then there's little hope for them.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

bassClef said:


> Oh leave them alone. If they are happy watching X-factor week after week and thinking that's the pinnacle of human musical achievement, then there's little hope for them.


Could be so. Persuading people to listen to classical music is akin to 'persuading' them to join the union by establishing the agency shop. Many will then join the union, but you can't trust 'em.

:devil:


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Where I live...*

I live in the suburbs of Montreal...Quebec province in Canada...
I think here in North America a minority likes classical music...Many people don't know where is Argentina, the country I was born in. Then...Here they maybe know Mozart, Beethoven....by name...I is sad. I gave up trying to exchange my muisic here...I have this group, another one in France, another one in the States (for Rimsky-Korsakov)...

Even in this group many people really don't know very well Russian composers (my favorite composers)...I feel different...I am different.

Martin Pitchon


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

> Even in this group many people really don't know very well Russian composers (my favorite composers)


Well, it's not necessary for individual interested in music to explore Russian composers like they would be the only ones - there are some must-hear among them, but you act like it would be duty of classical listeners to know all works by obscure composers like Lyapunov or Myaskovsky, ignoring fact that someone's interest could be focused on diffrent region with it's own forgotten perals, eg. France or Spain.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*violin?*










This guy is curious....he's one of my son's friends...he is an awesom violinist nevertheless he prefers rock....

Martin


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