# Academic Cheating- How Big a Deal?



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Item: as a worker in an ongoing unit, I have the chance to review and (often) correct work done by my peers in an intake unit. A college degree is a pre-condition to work in either unit. As the two units involved are, in fact, peer to one another, I have no authority to insist on less error-ridden work from the other unit. Some blunders are so egregious that some days, I just shake my head and say "must not take much to get a college degree, these days." In reality, the most common error is the "lazy attempt at a short-cut," which is different from the cognitive boner that results from failure to understand and apply basic concepts. I'm usually able to distinguish between the two. [Just as Hanlon's Razor advises "avoid attributing to malice that which can be fully explained though stupidity;" there should be a Chi_townPhilly corollary stating "avoid attributing to stupidity that which can be fully explained through slothfulness."]

Item: my wife and I went to Pennsylvania's 'Hersheypark' not long ago. As part of our trip, we went on the hokey bus-tour that involved free samples of the chocolates. With each pass of the basket, we were advised to take one... but there was this child in front of us who grabbed a handful, each time. This child's parents were evidently okay with this, for it was done in their full view. This greatly disturbed my wife- and I didn't feel good about it either, though (in the context of recent observations) it didn't surprise me much.

Item: Also earlier this year, I read a 'Readers Digest' article written by someone who said that he was a "professional ghost-writer;" i.e.: someone whom college-level students paid to write term papers & c. for them. The hours sounded brutal- but the guy said he knocked down a $60000/year income for basically helping students cheat their way through certain courses. 

I connect these items in the following way- the child cited in Item two, I'd argue, would likely be someone who'd have no qualms of conscience about cheating his way through classes. The workers cited in Item one who fall into the second class (that is to say, failing to understand and apply basic concepts) may be gotten their college degree without the ability to employ college-prep high-school level thinking because maybe _they cheated their way through college_, and carry a credential that is no credible reflection of their true abilities. (The lazy short-cutters, on the other hand, I view as the creation of a management team that prizes speed far above accuracy, and so are a Frankenstein-monster that Administration has played a pivotal role in creating.) Finally, our ghost-writer of Item three plays his part... but probably has a point in saying that the 'soil-conditions' of society are such that there is plenty of demand for the services he offers.

I thought of posting on these things because I encountered an earlier post which seemed to indicate that Academic Cheating sort-of fell into the category of "malum prohibitum" (wrong because someone says so). I suppose any objective measure of current attitudes on the issue would tend to indicate that this is an increasingly popular perspective... but (I'm sure you can imagine) it's one I don't share.

So... tell me about _your_ thoughts, experiences, and perspectives.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

For me, you know... not really big deal... you know, you just have to, you know... relax... no big deal then, you know... and, umm... you know, just keep cool, yea?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Cheating is self-destructive, easily capable of leaving permanent wounds in the psyche. College-level cheaters probably started bleeding earlier, and now are pissing away the opportunity to learn. If one of them pauses for a while in one place, blood, puss and **** accumulate around him.

The cheater that _Aramis_ mimics above is at least still sensitive to the charge. If he is still a Freshman, it may not be too late to get well. By the third year cheating is the only way to remain in school, the foundation of knowledge not having been built.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

Whe the College-level cheaters finish their so-called education and hopefully are able to get a job in their chosen field how are they going to be able to vheat their way through the work day?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

GoneBaroque said:


> Whe the College-level cheaters finish their so-called education and hopefully are able to get a job in their chosen field how are they going to be able to vheat their way through the work day?


If papa has the money, they can. I see it all the time.

One of my co-workers went to prison last year for forging a diploma and helping kids cheat on the SAT. Of course the kids didn't get in trouble, nor the parents who paid so much.

Of course the parents have big money, and the kids are just cruising their way into elite colleges from whence they will cruise into vice presidential positions at global corporations, spending their days driving Italian sports cars and their nights playing with expensive prostitutes. It's the new feudalism, the new droit du seigneur.

That's an extreme level though. Lower down, it won't work so well. But cheating is probably a valuable skill in a lot of jobs.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> [...]
> 
> That's an extreme level though. Lower down, it won't work so well. But cheating is probably a valuable skill in a lot of jobs.


I believe it. The practiced cheater is a kind of prevaricator. The skilled ones tend to do well, for a while anyway.

[Weird - I can spell 'prevaricator, but not 'lier'...? lyar...? 'liar'. There it is, dammit.]


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I did some minor cheating up to high school (really minor). Didn't do it in college or grad school, when I was actually interested in learning the tools of my future trade. I believe that persistent cheaters will end up showing their colors one way or the other. You can't really cheat your way through really needed job skills (at least not in my field) without having your incompetence exposed.


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

I really hope so, Alma. Cheating is prevalent in the ex-Eastern Bloc countries (in my country, too). I have never cheated - I don't even have the know-how or the practice which one gains through primary and secondary school, if one does in fact cheat. The worst thing about cheating in Poland is that no one sees it as a bad thing. Sure, teachers and lecturers aren't happy about it, they try to fight it, but you won't get relegated for cheating. It is because cheating was seen a anti-systemic during the 'communist' period. Adults cheated (especially when working in the public sector) and gave bad example to their kids.


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Hey, I've cheated quite a bit! It's all a matter of why it is being done. If it is the only way one can ever score decently then it is probably a terrible thing. I used it to get by some 'important' tests like mid-terms or whatever they were in high school. I was too busy with girls and playing music and experimenting with lots of other things to be worrying about these things. Freshman and sophomore years were basically a series of F's throughout the individual quarters with a strong A in the last part of the final quarter and, of course, an A on the final...resulting in at least a C. I mean, really...if someone studies good for a couple of days that is all you need to pass a final exam with 100%, if not at least a B; and, if you're lucky, you actually retain the information as well. Junior and Senior years I actually made deals with some teachers that if I could get all A's on the major exams that they would pass me with at least a B. Basically, I was playing the balance game with the system and always scoring off the charts with those 'aptitude' tests for those you didn't have to and couldn't study for. Not something I recommend to anyone but it worked for me.

My favorite incident of all this came in my first and only year of college where I was in an advanced writing class (I had taken many English and Writing courses through high school toward college credits) and pretty much didn't show up,...ever. Long story short: My teacher says, while nodding his head in disbelief, "How is it that you've managed to fail this coarse and you have the highest score on my departmental English exam? The highest score ever!".

It didn't take long for me to decide to stop with this 'learning' and start working. Again, not for all. It just happens to be my philosophy and what has worked for me.

This is, perhaps, why I love the following movie scene so much:


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I have yet to think of a way to cheat on my recitals


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

Rasa said:


> I have yet to think of a way to cheat on my recitals


You can use playback!


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

If you cheat in school to pass tests, you're not learning anything. You may as well not be there..


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The only "cheating" I did in high school was basing my english essays entirely on the commentary found in Coles Notes without reading the novels themselves. Also, I was in Honours English, sad stuff.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Of course kv... it's terrible when other people do it but you have a rationalization for yourself, eh?

As someone who worked hard to do well in school...especially for very competitive entrance into my grad program, I am pretty anti cheating.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Rasa said:


> I have yet to think of a way to cheat on my recitals


beta blockers?


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## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

Sonata said:


> Of course kv... it's terrible when other people do it but you have a rationalization for yourself, eh?
> 
> As someone who worked hard to do well in school...especially for very competitive entrance into my grad program, I am pretty anti cheating.


I won't be accused of advocating anything perceived as 'wrong'.

I'm glad you worked hard and you deserve everything you get from it. I didn't have to work hard because school is not hard. Learning is not hard. If it were hard for me, I would have studied and studied and tried so hard but that simply wasn't the case. I was accepted into BC among many other institutions mostly from aptitude tests and sat's; it was just never my thing and never will be.

It's only terrible if you cheat and can't read or write.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

kv466 said:


> Hey, I've cheated quite a bit! It's all a matter of why it is being done. If it is the only way one can ever score decently then it is probably a terrible thing. I used it to get by some 'important' tests like mid-terms or whatever they were in high school. I was too busy with girls and playing music and experimenting with lots of other things to be worrying about these things. Freshman and sophomore years were basically a series of F's throughout the individual quarters with a strong A in the last part of the final quarter and, of course, an A on the final...resulting in at least a C. I mean, really...if someone studies good for a couple of days that is all you need to pass a final exam with 100%, if not at least a B; and, if you're lucky, you actually retain the information as well. Junior and Senior years I actually made deals with some teachers that if I could get all A's on the major exams that they would pass me with at least a B. Basically, I was playing the balance game with the system and always scoring off the charts with those 'aptitude' tests for those you didn't have to and couldn't study for. Not something I recommend to anyone but it worked for me.
> 
> My favorite incident of all this came in my first and only year of college where I was in an advanced writing class (I had taken many English and Writing courses through high school toward college credits) and pretty much didn't show up,...ever. Long story short: My teacher says, while nodding his head in disbelief, "How is it that you've managed to fail this coarse and you have the highest score on my departmental English exam? The highest score ever!".
> 
> ...


The "Formal school vs. School of Life" thing is an old debate. In the movies the latter seems all romantic. Of course there are many fields of work out there that do not require formal education to perform well and personal success in those fields may depend more on personal skills and smarts than in what someone learns in school.

But it's not the case for all fields. In my field of work some highly specialized knowledge is essential and I don't see any way for someone to get it from the "School of Life." Besides, control of the end product and accountability needs do indeed require a degree, certifications, continuous education and updating, a regulatory board to ensure good standards, etc., and this would not be possible if people did not submit to the necessary steps to earn those degrees and certificates. The degree ensures that the individual has been through those steps in order to gain the skills, which does not exempt someone from having to repeatedly demonstrate that his/her skills remain sharp, in order to maintain certification.

So the self-taught genius as depicted in the movie Good Will Hunting is cool, but in organized society won't work for many fields, so let's not throw away formal education due to the fact that in some areas people can do well without it.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't cheat, never have, which is a good thing, because at my university you had to stand up in front of your tutor and read out your assignments and defend them orally. Pretty difficult, I presume, if someone else has done them for you.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

That's pretty interesting...

The only similar experiences I had in college were at the bookends of my time at (the) University. As a Freshman, I took an Elementary Astronomy class... and the professor offered a standing invitation to visit his office and respond orally to topics raised in class, in lieu of taking written quizzes and tests. If I had more schooling under my belt, I might have considered the offer... but since I was a first-semester Freshman, I opted for the more familiar and conventional approach.

As a final semester Senior, I had an oral-presentation Senior Thesis, which I was called upon to conventionally defend. I guess most theses were expected to be verbally defended, back in the day...

Now, before I waffle my own topic any further:, it gets back to this point--

On a morning talk-show, the following question was raised- given the fact that, in America at least, we can expect to spend at least six figures (i.e.: $100 000 or more) to get a person through college. [To what extent this is personal expenditure and what extent it is underwritten is a topic outside the bounds of relevance to the larger point.] Anyway, the question comes up- in exchange for that outlay and navigation through the classes, one can call oneself a college graduate. AND finishing the point, what do we know about a person if all we know about him is that he's a college graduate?

Point being, of course-- we don't know *butkus* about 'im.

Not saying there aren't ways to separate from the pack, but the college degree, by itself, is currency that has less value than it did in earlier times. I believe that the increase in academic cheating has contributed a verse to the saga of its devaluation.


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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

I have spent my entire working life in the engineering faculties of universities. My experience is that cheating is a not problem for the hard science disciplines. In hard science subjects, it is impossible to cheat in examination because the papers are set in such a way that unless the candidate have access to the questions in advance, he/she will not be able to prepare the material to cheat during the examination. In fact, a lot of the examinations are in 'open book' format; candidates are allowed to bring whatever materials they deem necessary into the examiantion hall and consult them if they so wish; the only exception being programmable memory devices. In the thirty odd years within various universities I have come across one case of 'cheating' and the person was caught and expelled from the university.
Having said that, it does not mean that it is hard to pass through the gate with a degree. In fact it is very easy. Universities are not set up to fail students. They go out of their way to let students through - if they can be admitted in the first palce. There is hell to answer for if the failure rate of a subject is significantly higher than the historical mean. The reason is that statistically intellegence level of young people of the same age group should not vary greatly year by year. Hence if the failure rate is high it could only mean two things: the professor did a very bad job or the examination paper is exceptionally difficult, both being unacceptable. If one looks at the statistics of universities, the drop out rate is no more than 5 - 8 % per year. This means that if one wants to get a degree one only have to be not the last man/woman out of the room. Naturally if one wants a good degree; by that I mean a frist class honour, than one have to be prepared to work hard for it.
It is a common complain that one hear a lot these days that the standard of graduates are falling all the time. In a way it is true but it does not reflect the complete picture. Education opportunity is open to everybody nowadays who has reach the entrance standard. The classes are much bigger now than when I first started. Inevitably the lower end are not of the same quality as their peer of thirty years ago but the top end is still the same; perhaps even better.


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## Igneous01 (Jan 27, 2011)

in response to Chi_townPhilly, your right about that. What has happened over the years is that more and more people are graduating with diplomas, certificates, and degrees. This has created inflation in the academic and business field. Companies hiring no longer value the degree as it was valued 20 years ago-everyone has one now.

Before, if someone had a degree, he was guaranteed a job, because a degree was hard to come by in those times. Now, the chances of getting a job are about the same as not having a degree (at least in Canada this is how it is) I've talked with lots of parents and former graduates who have no work, because the degree is worth little value anymore. Sad to see such efforts wasted.

and Certificates are a joke, they shouldn't even exist imo


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Igneous01 said:


> [...]
> and Certificates are a joke, they shouldn't even exist imo


I don't know the range of studies for which certificates are given, so I _may_ not be disagreeing with you.

Certificates are 'useful indicators' in the trades that once were guilds. Master electricians, plumbers, carpenters may use the certificate as evidence that the job seeker actually has an interest in learning the trade (rather than simply wanting a job) and has at least enough knack for the trade to earn the certificate. The long apprentice > journeyman > master process is not appreciably shortened, but the drop-out potential is lessened.

Nothing in the above paragraph is intended to downplay the 'progeny advantage'.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I've spent my life in universities, but I'm not really sure how prevalent cheating is. My undergraduate degree is in engineering and my graduate degrees are in physics. I agree with Dster that cheating in engineering and the hard sciences is probably rare. In engineering I had to sign a pledge after every exam - "I have neither given nor received aid in this exam." Anyone found guilty of cheating was subject to expulsion. The nature of tests in the sciences does make it difficult to cheat unless one is copying from another's paper. Even that is hard because you have to show all the work so you'd have to copy a lot.

My quantum mechanics tests were an interesting example. We would show up at 7 PM to start the test. We were allowed to bring anything. We could leave the room and go to the library or any other place we wanted. The professor left around 10:30 and simply told us our exams had to be under his door by 7 AM the next day.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

The only problem I have with policies regarding Academic Dishonesty these days is that they are so strict that many people cheat when they don't mean to, and get chastised when they don't expect it. If it were possible to track down all the students currently enrolled in high school, university, law school, or graduate school, I think it would be hard pressed to find more than 1 percent of all students who not participate in some form or another of "Academic Dishonesty". But some of it can be trite, like extracting ideas from professional commentary or citing statistics without permission, etc. The list goes on and on.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2011)

I teach high school English, and most of the cheating takes place in my AP English Lit classes in the form of plagiarism. To combat the problem, I require students to submit their essays and study guides to turnitin.com, a site that scans the documents and searches for plagiarized passages. Most of the time I would have caught it anyway since the "voice" suddenly changes in the plagiarized passages, but the site is a serious deterrent! Only the most desperate students think they can outwit me or the site, and when I catch them, it isn't pretty! (I make them feel terrible for having so little integrity/self-respect and grossly disrespecting _me_, they get suspended, and the suspension is noted on their transcripts.)


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

cheating is bad... mmkay?


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

science said:


> If papa has the money, they can. I see it all the time.
> 
> One of my co-workers went to prison last year for forging a diploma and helping kids cheat on the SAT. Of course the kids didn't get in trouble, nor the parents who paid so much.
> 
> ...


Yes, there are jobs out there in which the employee benefits from douchebaggery.


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## Dster (Oct 3, 2011)

Cheating only happens in schools whereby students are 'forced' to attend whether they like it or not until they reach the statutory age. Most of these kids lack motivation to study for one reason or another and they cheat or misbehave on purpose to show their resentment. This is a very serious problem that society has to find a solution. As for the higher education it is not a problem because students are motivated enough to apply to join. 
In the days when degrees are hard to come by, it is natural that those whose having one will have many jobs to choose from. Now it is much more common, the balance has swung in favour of the employers. Personally I would rather have the present system which is fair and open to all rather than the old elite system whereby many bright young people were not given the opportunities because they cannot afford to pay the fees.


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