# Brandenburg Concertos



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

First let me express my extreme love of these pieces. I performed No. 3 movement one with my high school orchestra (I played cello). These are the pieces that made me love Bach whom I earlier wrote off as not emotional enough.

But I do have a question, how are these considered concertos? They don't seem to feature any soloist?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

They are more like a Concerto Grosso - 
<<a musical composition for a group of solo instruments accompanied by an orchestra. The term is used mainly of baroque works.>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto_grosso
<<The concerto grosso .....is a form of baroque music in which the musical material is passed between a small group of soloists (the concertino) and full orchestra (the ripieno or concerto grosso).>>

The B'burgs are wonderful pieces, and even today, some of the parts are extremely demanding - trumpet part of #2, Horn parts of #1. In each work, there is a small group of solo instruments featured.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

My favorite recording, not necessarily because it is any better than the thousands of others out there but because it was my into to the work, was with Karl Ristenpart Conducting and had a really cool cartoon image of Bach and the dedication on the lp cover. Apparently it's out of print


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Triplets said:


> My favorite recording, not necessarily because it is any better than the thousands of others out there but because it was my into to the work, was with Karl Ristenpart Conducting and had a really cool cartoon image of Bach and the dedication on the lp cover. Apparently it's out of print


Also one of my favorites, here:

Saarländisches Kammerorkester / Karl Ristenpart

https://www.amazon.fr/Bach-Oeuvres-...id=1491688457&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+ristenpart

This box also contains the orchestral suites, Art of Fugue and some concertos.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yeah. They are more like Handel's Concerti Grossi.

Best I've ever heard is Trevor Pinnock's earlier recording, directing the English Concert.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> They are more like a Concerto Grosso -
> <<a musical composition for a group of solo instruments accompanied by an orchestra. The term is used mainly of baroque works.>>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerto_grosso
> <<The concerto grosso .....is a form of baroque music in which the musical material is passed between a small group of soloists (the concertino) and full orchestra (the ripieno or concerto grosso).>>
> ...


Thanks! That was much appreciated.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

My favorite version I've found on Youtube is this:


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Triplets said:


> My favorite recording, not necessarily because it is any better than the thousands of others out there but because it was my into to the work, was with Karl Ristenpart Conducting and had a really cool cartoon image of Bach and the dedication on the lp cover. Apparently it's out of print


+1. Not just my way into the work, but my first real exposure to Bach.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

This one will do it for now.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Great pieces indeed, all of them. My favourite is the 6th - the one with no violins.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> My favorite version I've found on Youtube is this:


Also one of my favorites. Much better than their later remake . Unfortunately the recording is only - as far as I know - available on DVD, this is the reason why I have not mentioned it above.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/EuroArts/2050316


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> First let me express my extreme love of these pieces. I performed No. 3 movement one with my high school orchestra (I played cello). These are the pieces that made me love Bach whom I earlier wrote off as not emotional enough.
> 
> But I do have a question, how are these considered concertos? They don't seem to feature any soloist?


If you look at this link you can see that "famous" soloist sometimes join in to perform a concert.
Most of the time one of the members from the orchestra take the "lead" role.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564613865


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Captainnumber36 said:


> But I do have a question, how are these considered concertos? They don't seem to feature any soloist?


Maybe because you're listening to a non-HIP version?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Maybe because you're listening to a non-HIP version?


I've seen the word "HIP" thrown around here quite a lot. What does it mean/stand for?

Thanks.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

*H*istorically *I*nformed *P*erformance. It means they use historically accurate period instruments and techniques, or facsimiles thereof.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

EdwardBast said:


> *H*istorically *I*nformed *P*erformance. It means they use historically accurate period instruments and techniques, or facsimiles thereof.


Sometimes HIP performances use modern instruments with time period techniques or a mixture of time period and modern instruments. Sometimes it can take some work just to find out how HIP a HIP performance is.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Klassik said:


> Sometimes HIP performances use modern instruments with time period techniques or a mixture of time period and modern instruments. Sometimes it can take some work just to find out how HIP a HIP performance is.


Yes. Modern bands sometimes use HIP practices, but at modern pitch. Marriner did this for years with the AOSMITF.

Rachel Barton Pine plays a modern violin in her recording of the Bach Sonatas & Partitas for Unaccompanied Violin, so convincingly HIP, that it sounds pretty much like a Baroque violin.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> First let me express my extreme love of these pieces. I performed No. 3 movement one with my high school orchestra (I played cello). These are the pieces that made me love Bach whom I earlier wrote off as not emotional enough.
> 
> But I do have a question, how are these considered concertos? They don't seem to feature any soloist?


Your understanding of the term "concerto" is a modern one. Back in Bach's day, concerto meant any performance involving a group of instruments whether or not it feature soloists. And that was not just limited to instruments, but voices too. for example, Bach never used the word "cantata". He labelled his pieces simply as "concerto" too.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

premont said:


> Also one of my favorites, here:
> 
> Saarländisches Kammerorkester / Karl Ristenpart
> 
> ...


I'm really tempted to order that, but I'm not sure that it would be shipped to the U.S.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Triplets said:


> I'm really tempted to order that, but I'm not sure that it would be shipped to the U.S.


Might help:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Branden...id=1491822344&sr=1-9&keywords=bach+ristenpart

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-J-S-Orc...id=1491822498&sr=1-2&keywords=bach+ristenpart


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> Great pieces indeed, all of them. My favourite is the 6th - the one with no violins.


I love the finale of the 6th. A vivacious, exhilarating way to end the cycle!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I love the Presto of #4--some of the most joyous music I've ever heard. I have the Pinnock/English Consort, but Walter/Wendy Carlos did a fantastic job with the #4 on the synthesizer way back when. If you've never heard it.......


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

I have a set done by Trevor Pinnock and The English Concert, wonderful recordings!


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I haven't sampled through different versions because I was so extremely satisfied with the first one I got - Suzuki on SACD. Am I missing something?


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## fjf (Nov 4, 2014)

This is full of vicious people who like variety!!.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I listened to one by La Stravaganza Hamburg. It was scintillating. It has both versions of #5 (the short and the standard longer version). Bach apparently wrote many versions of the harpsichord part (or his circles/students did). Plus the Triple Concerto, which I count as a "Brandenburg no.7".


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

fjf said:


> This is full of vicious people who like variety!!.


Please explain......


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Xaltotun said:


> I haven't sampled through different versions because I was so extremely satisfied with the first one I got - Suzuki on SACD. Am I missing something?


From my experience, every version has unique characteristics. There are some recordings that have more prominent brass contributions than the Suzuki or recordings with a little more edge to them. However, Suzuki's is an excellent performance, and the SACD layer adds to the enjoyment. Ultimately, your satisfaction is all that matters.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> From my experience, every version has unique characteristics. There are some recordings that have more prominent brass contributions than the Suzuki or recordings with a little more edge to them. However, Suzuki's is an excellent performance, and the SACD layer adds to the enjoyment. Ultimately, your satisfaction is all that matters.


That was very nicely put, thank you! I can tell the Suzuki sounds quite smooth and polished, yet never machine-like but the opposite, really; organic, inspired and intuitive, even. And at this point, I think I prefer this kind of approach to these pieces, really. The cover with the snail shell actually does a very good job of conveying the style of the interpretation visually.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Xaltotun said:


> That was very nicely put, thank you! I can tell the Suzuki sounds quite smooth and polished, yet never machine-like but the opposite, really; organic, inspired and intuitive, even. And at this point, I think I prefer this kind of approach to these pieces, really. The cover with the snail shell actually does a very good job of conveying the style of the interpretation visually.


What Bulldog said. This is a very fine performance, - yes a bit polished, but stylish and using first class soloists. The only thing you may miss is variety, but it is an individual matter whether one wants this or not.


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