# Masterpieces in the Medival era



## Oliver (Feb 14, 2012)

The medieval era spans 500-1400, I haven't explored any of it as of yet, but what is the reason that there are not considered to be as many (or any) masterpieces or revered composers from that era as there are in the much shorter Baroque era? Was not much of great value composed in all this time, and if so why not? Is this the case in the other arts?


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I'm not well versed in the history of music in that period, but apparently proper polyphonic composition started occurring rather late. Chants aren't exactly sophisticated music of great artistic value, even when you start to harmonise them with primitive means.

There are a few important composers, later into the Medieval era. Machaut and his Notre Dame mass are well known. Landini and Ciconia are considered important, and earlier there's Perotin.

Early Dufay could be considered Medieval, and some of that music is on the level of true masterpiece, in my opinion (try "Salve flos" or "Ecclesie militantis").

I think music was starting to become more important around 1400. Earlier composers were better known as poets. Harmony also evolved around that time and brought the musical language closer to what we're used to, and perhaps made it capable of more expressiveness.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Perhaps because most of Medival era music is not concert music. There are a good number of important composers and their pieces that are revered by the knowledgeable.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Are their any..... really?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

-_Ars antiqua_:

*Perotin* and others of the _Notre Dame School_: 




Some things from the Calixtinus Codex: Congaudeant catholici
 (believed to be the first piece ever for three voices)

-Ars antiqua to _Ars Nova_: 




-_Ars Subtilior_ and some early Renaissance: 




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Perotin's Viderunt omnes is considered as one of the most important masterpieces of western music.

Any of these three CDs is a desert island CD for my personal taste.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Oliver said:


> The medieval era spans 500-1400, I haven't explored any of it as of yet, but what is the reason that there are not considered to be as many (or any) masterpieces or revered composers from that era as there are in the much shorter Baroque era? Was not much of great value composed in all this time, and if so why not? Is this the case in the other arts?


Very little instrumental music, but you may enjoy this CD















And this









Things become much much easier if you extend the period to include the 15th century because then we have Conrad Paumann and the Buxheimer Orgelbuch.

In vocal music clearly Machault is an important composer who wrote some splendid music.

Anyone like Cicconia? Solages? Senleches? The Chantilly Codex?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the concept of "composer" didn't fully arise until the Renaissance. Before that, most music was anonymous and vocal. You were supposed to write it to the glory of God - not use it as a tool for self-expression.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

DoReFaMi said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the concept of "composer" didn't fully arise until the Renaissance. Before that, most music was anonymous and vocal. You were supposed to write it to the glory of God - not use it as a tool for self-expression.


I think this is not correct.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Surprised nobody's mentioned Hildegard of Bingen.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

DoReFaMi said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the concept of "composer" didn't fully arise until the Renaissance. Before that, most music was anonymous and vocal. You were supposed to write it to the glory of God - not use it as a tool for self-expression.


This is not correct. The concept of composer was well established in the late medieval period and composers signed their work, although those who collected it in manuscripts and codices did not always make accurate attributiions. Arguably, or, IMO at least, the best music in this era was secular. Machaut, Dufay and Landini, among others, composed wonderful songs. There is a lot of really interesting secular music in the Ars subtilior. And the papal court at Avignon was one of the most godless and morally corrupt locales in the history of the planet, if contemporary accounts are to be believed  .


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Anyone like Cicconia? Solages? Senleches? The Chantilly Codex?


Yes, yes, yes, and yes!


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

DoReFaMi said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the concept of "composer" didn't fully arise until the Renaissance. Before that, most music was anonymous and vocal. You were supposed to write it to the glory of God - not use it as a tool for self-expression.


I've been thinking about this and believe what you wrote deserved a better response than I gave it. I think the idea of anonymous people writing music to the glory of God is, at least in part, an old trope that served as the ready answer whenever anyone asked the question: "Who wrote the Gregorian chant repertoire?" In this specific context, you might be on the right track in saying that the concept of "composer" hadn't yet become fully formed - Or, at least, it didn't apply in the normal sense to Gregorian chant. You see, a great deal of recent theory and historical research has taken the view that Gregorian chant was primarily an oral, improvised tradition. The people who wrote it down, many now think, were just scribes notating what they heard sung (presumably improvised according to a repertoire of formulas, motifs and general principles) at the various churches and monasteries they visited as they traveled across Europe in service of a great project: regularizing the musical liturgy. These scribes, it is thought, were in effect taking a sort of snap shot of a moment in time, freezing ephemeral improvised performances into a solid form in musical notation.

So, that trope about anonymous composers writing to the glory of God might just be a fanciful creation myth to explain how such an enormous repertoire could exist without personal attribution to its authors. It just hadn't occurred to anyone that chant might be an improvised tradition, just like the epic Homeric poetry and many folk song traditions are.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Palestrina's mass is outstanding, _Missa Papae Marcelli_.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Palestrina's mass is outstanding, _Missa Papae Marcelli_.


Not medieval, though.


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## Fugue Meister (Jul 5, 2014)

jegreenwood said:


> Surprised nobody's mentioned Hildegard of Bingen.


Who is he? :devil:


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Oliver said:


> ...what is the reason that there are not considered to be as many (or any) masterpieces or revered composers from that era as there are in the much shorter Baroque era?


Just tradition. That's all.


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## Oliver (Feb 14, 2012)

science said:


> Just tradition. That's all.


So there are pieces pre-1400 of the same musical quality and profundity as (say) the B Minor mass and Well-Tempered Clavier?


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Oliver said:


> So there are pieces pre-1400 of the same musical quality and profundity as (say) the B Minor mass and Well-Tempered Clavier?


Well, neither "quality" nor "profundity" are terms I'm willing to use that way. But most people who study the music of, for example, the Chantilly Codex are apparently very impressed.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Oliver said:


> So there are pieces pre-1400 of the same musical quality and profundity as (say) the B Minor mass and Well-Tempered Clavier?


I don't think so


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