# question



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

does the fact that women now account for a higher percentage of orchestras mean that the femenist movement is at work?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

h1478971 said:


> does the fact that women now account for a higher percentage of orchestras mean that the femenist movement is at work?


Looks like you ought to clarify your question; it doesn't parse as is.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Maybe. Plus the sexist elements that remain in the power structures of orchestras probably are taken less seriously because there are so many great female soloists and composers these days. They make fossils who argue that women can't fiddle or play the clarinet look like clowns.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Maybe it's because young males growing up these days get socially castrated if they play the violin.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

violadude said:


> Maybe it's because young males growing up these days get socially castrated if they play the violin.


 Jeez, hadn't thought about it, but maybe you're right.

I haven't kept up with modern Bluegrass, so don't know if the hypothetical trend applies there too.

:guitar:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

You might like to take a look at the make-up of this year's Vienna Phil New Year concert - there is a lot of internet rage about the obvious sexism at the moment.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Maybe it's because young males growing up these days get socially castrated if they play the violin.

That is certainly a possibility to an extent. I teach in an urban school district where academic success is often seen as a sign of weakness... or worse yet, of selling out to "******". Sadly, there are parents who take this attitude... not wanting their children to do better than they. I had one brilliant student who recently graduated. She was offered a full ride from a major college, but Mom refused, because the girl would need to move out and live on her own and she fears losing control of her.

Obviously this change in orchestras is also due to changes in attitude and education. Not that long ago, a woman in a major symphonic orchestra was a rarity, if that. "Blind" auditions have eliminated many biases. More women are afforded an equal education. And we might even need to consider the changes in attitudes of women themselves in the sense that more women are willing to act competitively without fear of being denigrated as aggressive and non-feminine.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

violadude said:


> Maybe it's because young males growing up these days get socially castrated if they play the violin.


I would slightly change this statement. The specific trend my daughter and I have seen (at least on the US west coast) is that young, _non-Asian_ males are vastly under represented in classical music string sections. I don't know whether this is a question of social acceptance or the continuing trend toward early "financial planning". Unfortunately, in our experience even the truly talented Asian musicians are going to college in other fields besides music.

Friends of ours personally experienced orchestral sexism decades ago, but I don't know to what extent that has changed. I would like to think that classical music, like much of society, has reduced its sexism over the past several decades.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Polednice said:


> You might like to take a look at the make-up of this year's Vienna Phil New Year concert - there is a lot of internet rage about the obvious sexism at the moment.


Yeah, it depends _a lot_ on the orchestra. I'm kind of pleased that the more egalitarian Concertgebouw seems to be getting more love from the critics than the Vienna Phil lately.


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## Moscow-Mahler (Jul 8, 2010)

violadude said:


> Maybe it's because young males growing up these days get socially castrated if they play the violin.


Well, an interesting point of view.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I suppose that there are still not much afro-american men playing violin. Is it because they are not interested in classical music or maybe the machismo culture is the reason? I am curious, because I am not American, nor Western European. But I suppose some of them may think that it is femenine not to play gangsta rap, but violin.

In our country femenism is not very popular, but a lot of violin players in orchestras are women and most students of arts and humanity departments are also women. I do not mind (I have a lot of friends among women), though I am sometimes curious, why lots of modern boys do not love literature and humanities.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

An interesting and related article. If one wishes to be a musician, classical or pop, male or female, it does not hurt to be attractive. (this is true of most things!)


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

My wife and I have long noticed that there is a much higher percentage of attractive female solo musicians than male solo musicians. And yes, that is true of probably every field where appearance could affect revenue.


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## pluhagr (Jan 2, 2012)

Hm, I don't think that a higher percentage of women equals a feminist movement. The feminist movement is more and different than having a lot of women in something. I think it is due to cultural norms, in the US at least. These norms make it feminine to play certain instruments.


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