# Most Pretentious/Pretentiously Used Opera Terms



## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I think it can be assumed that most opera lovers are cultured people, but are there any opera-related terms that make you cringe because they've become cliches or simply sound pretentious to you? I'll give you two examples of terms I think are fine in and of themselves, but that in our own time have acquired a certain amount of "baggage":

-- The term "bel canto" seems to have devolved into a sort of weapon. You see it on the internet all the time: "That soprano's rendition of 'Qui la voce' is not really bel canto...Only Sutherland/Callas/Caballe was bel canto...The art of bel canto is dead...Callas was not bel canto, she was _belt_ canto", and on and on. I believe Richard Miller has the right idea in his book _On the Art of Singing_: "The term bel canto should not be misused as a mystical incantation muttered over a host of contradictory pedagogical assumptions, in which case it ceases to have any historical meaning. Beautiful singing -- _bel canto _-- must be based on beautiful vocal function associated with beautiful artistic imagination...Fortunately, no one has a corner [a monopoly] on it."

-- The term "vocal colors" or "color the voice." Of course, no one wants to hear monochromatic singing, but it seems to me that ever since there have been a few singers -- Callas being the one that comes most immediately to mind -- renowned for their ability to "color" their voices to suit different characters, too many critics and listeners seem unfairly to expect _every_ singer to do this. In Jerome Hines's book _Great Singers on Great Singing _there's an interview with the baritone Cornell MacNeil, in which he says (I'm paraphrasing): "Don't talk to me about vocal colors. All you can do is sing with _inention_. I don't believe in distorting your vocalism in order to achieve it" -- his point being, I thnk, that "vocal colors" have to be the result of musical-dramatic intention, not of a conscious attempt to "color the voice." Hines adds that the practice of consciously coloring the voice can lead to "vocal distortion" and to actual loss of the voice itself.

So what are some terms or "sayings" that annoy you or that you think are misused?


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Whether people who use them mean it or not, the Italian nicknames sound utterly pretentious to me, unless they come from native Italian speaker for whom Italian language can't be a pose. Seeing La Divina or La Stupenda or La Whatevera in English (or any non-Italian) text gives me feeling of pretentious pose by somebody who, even if that's not the reason he got into opera in the first place, wants to feel and look refined through the pseudo-sophisticated, awkward language which often comes along with usage of these nicknames. Of course, we all like to feel and look refined to some extent, nothing wrong about that - but let's be refined in more natural way.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Aramis said:


> Whether people who use them mean it or not, the Italian nicknames sound utterly pretentious to me, unless they come from native Italian speaker for whom Italian language can't be a pose. Seeing La Divina or La Stupenda or La Whatevera in English (or any non-Italian) text gives me feeling of pretentious pose by somebody who, even if that's not the reason he got into opera in the first place, wants to feel and look refined through the pseudo-sophisticated, awkward language which often comes along with usage of these nicknames. Of course, we all like to feel and look refined to some extent, nothing wrong about that - but let's be refined in more natural way.


I remember a local (United States) classical radio host who, every time she said the late Claudio Abbado's name, would say it in an exaggerated, Spanish-sounding accent. I have no idea why; she must not have known what an Italian accent sounds like. Every time I heard it I laughed, because it sounded so ridiculous. While one should always try to pronounce foreign words and names correctly, IMO there's no requirement to utter them in a foreign accent!


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## BaronScarpia (Apr 2, 2014)

_"Singer"_ is amazing *but you should have heard her in her prime*. Grrr.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

BaronScarpia said:


> _"Singer"_ is amazing *but you should have heard her in her prime*. Grrr.


Or, "Singer Y is okay, but you should have heard Singer X in her prime."


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Aramis said:


> Whether people who use them mean it or not, the Italian nicknames sound utterly pretentious to me, unless they come from native Italian speaker for whom Italian language can't be a pose. Seeing La Divina or La Stupenda or La Whatevera in English (or any non-Italian) text gives me feeling of pretentious pose by somebody who, even if that's not the reason he got into opera in the first place, wants to feel and look refined through the pseudo-sophisticated, awkward language which often comes along with usage of these nicknames. Of course, we all like to feel and look refined to some extent, nothing wrong about that - but let's be refined in more natural way.


La Stupenda sounds like the stupid one.
But they are fun in some way also.
However I find La Divina blasphemous.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I have no idea what "idiomatic" means, and neither do the people who use it.

And "deeply felt" and "lets the music speak for itself" are two phrases that tip me off that a reviewer has no idea what he or she is talking about.


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## Biffo (Mar 7, 2016)

'not idiomatic' means it is not like your favourite recording or performance.

Worse than adulatory Italian nicknames is the habit of calling singers (usually female) by their first names. The Opera forum on Amazon.com had several contributors on first name terms, or so it would seem, with Joan, Renata, Maria etc.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

I make no apologies about being pretentious


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I make no apologies about being pretentious


Thank goodness! (I thought I was the only one!)

N.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> I make no apologies about being pretentious


I'm not pretentious, so I have to fake it.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Silly thread but I'll play.
Fach! (even I use it when I'm trying to impress)


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Biffo said:


> 'not idiomatic' means it is not like your favourite recording or performance.
> 
> Worse than adulatory Italian nicknames is the habit of calling singers (usually female) by their first names. The Opera forum on Amazon.com had several contributors on first name terms, or so it would seem, with Joan, Renata, Maria etc.


I don't mind the "first names" one. I agree about "not idiomatic," which usually sounds me to as though the writer is trying too hard to justify simply not liking a performance.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

La Stupenda is great, there's only one,_ Dame Joan Sutherland_, Prima Donna Assoluta.


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## The Wolf (Apr 28, 2017)

"The new (X singer)"...Typical


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## Taplow (Aug 13, 2017)

I once saw Joan Sutherland being interviewed on a morning or daytime chat show in Australia shortly after she announced her retirement (1990). The interviewer was some ditzy blonde whose only obvious qualification was as eye candy, and who had the misfortune to ask Dame Joan a question about _coloratura_ ... but using the term somewhat inaccurately or out of context as I recall. The look of utter contempt that Ms Sutherland flashed this poor woman in that moment is one I shall never forget!


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> I have no idea what "idiomatic" means, and neither do the people who use it.
> 
> And "deeply felt" and "lets the music speak for itself" are two phrases that tip me off that a reviewer has no idea what he or she is talking about.


I'm someone who uses "idiomatic" to mean sung as if by a native speaker, and in the proper style. In general, I prefer native singers to international casts, however starry. Some foreign singers can sound idiomatic, but they're rare - e.g. Nicolai Gedda, fluent in six languages. For unidiomatic singers, see Domingo mangling French, Grigolo singing Gounod or Massenet as though they're Puccini, and Terfel doing Boris when he can't speak Russian.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

There’s nothing wrong with the use of the word idiomatic. It suggests a performance close to how the work was originally done or intended to be done, including something authentic that may have been passed down from one musician or conductor to another. The Bruno Walter performances of some of the Mahler symphonies—Walter knew and heard Mahler—I would describe as being very close to the source of the original intentions that Mahler had, and that’s why Walter’s performance sound idiomatic to some listeners—a certain quality of rightness that seems to fit the interpretation of the score. Idiomatic is a very useful word rather than an interpretation that might be totally out of left field and have nothing to do with what the composer had in mind. In modern performances, it doesn’t seem to matter anymore as conductors and orchestras are farther away from the original source. I wouldn’t describe Pierre Boulez’s performances of the Mahler symphonies as idiomatic, but I still find them exceptionally good. Stravinsky conducting Stravinsky I would describe as idiomatic: he’s performing the music the way he intended it to be played as he conceived it. So the word has meaning and usefulness as a frame of reference, beyond its presumed pretentiousness, for how something should or can be done.


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

I never liked the term “created” when applied to a singer who sang in the premier of a work, e.g., Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld “created” the role of Tristan. I don’t know how this ever started. The only person who created Tristan is Richard Wagner. 

Much better to say that he “premiered” the role, but that doesn’t come without risks. I guess grammarians would argue that you’re using the word premier as a verb. And you’ve committed an unpardonable faux pas to the fashionable crowd, who know that you were supposed to say “created”.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Scott in PA said:


> I never liked the term "created" when applied to a singer who sang in the premier of a work, e.g., Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld "created" the role of Tristan. I don't know how this ever started. The only person who created Tristan is Richard Wagner.
> 
> Much better to say that he "premiered" the role, but that doesn't come without risks. I guess grammarians would argue that you're using the word premier as a verb. And you've committed an unpardonable faux pas to the fashionable crowd, who know that you were supposed to say "created".


Some fanatic fans/ groupies of a certain opera singer will not agree with you, and no I don't mean Fleming.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

We thought it would be *brave* to put on a *Regieoper* production so that it could *engage* with *contemporary themes* in *new and interesting ways* to make it *accessible* to the *younger generation* and make sure opera stays *relevant*. Of course we are putting on the *uncut* 9 hour *original language* version [you *haven't really heard it otherwise*]using *authentic instruments*, * up-and-coming* talent with an *exciting* new director.

It's not being pretentious - it's simply an *ironic* *postmodern* *pastiche* incorporating *metanarratives* and the characters' experiences in *liminal zones*. D'uh...


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

"The voice." Like, rather than saying, "Sutherland's voice was this" or "Corelli's voice was that," the opera fan will just say "_The voice _was [some descriptor]." I understand why this is done -- a singing voice is an instrument -- but to me it just sounds pretentious.


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## MBro (Feb 6, 2018)

Apparently, "majestic" isn't fancy enough of a word for some people in regards to describing performances of Wagner, so people have taken to using "magisterial" to mean the same thing (e.g. Flagstad's voice sounds absolutely MAGISTERIAL in the dawn duet). 

mag·is·te·ri·al
ˌmajəˈstirēəl/Submit
adjective
adjective: magisterial
1.
having or showing great authority.
"a magisterial pronouncement"
synonyms:	authoritative, masterful, assured, lordly, commanding, assertive
"a magisterial pronouncement"
antonyms:	humble
domineering; dictatorial.
"he dropped his somewhat magisterial style of questioning"
synonyms:	domineering, dictatorial, autocratic, imperious, overbearing, peremptory, high-handed, arrogant, supercilious, patronizing; informalbossy
"his magisterial style of questioning"
antonyms:	hesitant, tentative
2.
relating to or conducted by a magistrate.
(of a person) holding the office of a magistrate.

None of these definitions seem to me like a very good endorsement of a voice. I don't think you'd describe Flagstad's as "bossy"


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## MBro (Feb 6, 2018)

Hey! In Domingo's defense, he can mangle German just as well as he can mangle French


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MBro said:


> Hey! In Domingo's defense, he can mangle German just as well as he can mangle French


He did a wonderful : Les contes d'Hoffmann with Dame Joan Sutherland on record though.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pugg said:


> La Stupenda is great, there's only one,_ Dame Joan Sutherland_, Prima Donna Assoluta.


I believe when Sutherland was asked what she thought of people calling her 'La Stupenda' she said, "Are they referring to my voice or my height?" Well done Joan!


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

nina foresti said:


> Silly thread but I'll play.
> Fach! (even I use it when I'm trying to impress)


That's NOT a silly contribution, though. Nice! Yeah, the 'F' word probably gets a place on the podium. May I suggest that "cavatina" can keep it company?!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I believe when Sutherland was asked what she thought of people calling her 'La Stupenda' she said, "Are they referring to my voice or my height?" Well done Joan!


The woman was greater then her own shadow and modest like a schoolgirl, true human being. :kiss:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> Most Pretentious/Pretentiously Used Opera Terms





> To come clean, I've discarded all of the Traviata CDs and DVDs. I've only kept peep Traviata recordings.


Can any comment be more pretentious.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pugg said:


> The woman was greater then her own shadow and modest like a schoolgirl, true human being. :kiss:


Joan always seemed so down to earth. When someone talked to her about being a Prima Donna she said, "I was brought up in a farm house with six children. If you acted the prima donna you were sent to bed without any supper!"


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Scott in PA said:


> I never liked the term "created" when applied to a singer who sang in the premier of a work, e.g., Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld "created" the role of Tristan. I don't know how this ever started. The only person who created Tristan is Richard Wagner.
> 
> Much better to say that he "premiered" the role, but that doesn't come without risks. I guess grammarians would argue that you're using the word premier as a verb. And you've committed an unpardonable faux pas to the fashionable crowd, who know that you were supposed to say "created".


You're talking about semantics. When we talk about a singer 'creating' a role we all know what we mean. It is the context of the word that determines its meaning.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

wkasimer said:


> I have no idea what "idiomatic" means, and neither do the people who use it.
> 
> And "deeply felt" and *"lets the music speak for itself"* are two phrases that tip me off that a reviewer has no idea what he or she is talking about.


When a reviewer uses this phrase you can bet the performance is pretty under-characterised.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

There was another reviewer (now deceased) who when reviewing Parsifal said, "Karajan's version has beauty; Solti's has truth." He probably didn't even know himself what he meant by that phrase.


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