# Charlie Watts vs. Ringo Star, who had the better career?



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

Who do you think was not only the better drummer, but had the better musical career in general?


In addition to his work with The Rolling Stones, Watts has released the following albums:
Charlie Watts Live Fulham Town Hall (1989)
Tribute to Charlie Parker (1992)
From One Charlie (1993)
Warm and Tender (1993)
Long Ago and Far Away (1996)
Charlie Watts & Jim Keltner Project (2000)
Watts at Scott's (2004)
The Magic of Boogie Woogie (2010)
The ABC&D of Boogie Woogie Live in Paris (2012)

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Since the breakup of the Beatles, Starr has released 17 solo studio albums:
Sentimental Journey (1970)
Beaucoups of Blues (1970)
Ringo (1973)
Goodnight Vienna (1974)
Ringo's Rotogravure (1976)
Ringo the 4th (1977)
Bad Boy (1978)
Stop and Smell the Roses (1981)
Old Wave (1983)
Time Takes Time (1992)
Vertical Man (1998)
I Wanna Be Santa Claus (1999)
Ringo Rama (2003)
Choose Love (2005)
Liverpool 8 (2008)
Y Not (2010)
Ringo 2012 (2012)
Postcards from Paradise (2015)


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Pyotr said:


> Since the breakup of the Beatles, Starr has released 17 solo studio albums:
> Sentimental Journey (1970)
> Beaucoups of Blues (1970)
> Ringo (1973)
> ...


I never knew that.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I generally like the Beatles slightly better then I do the Stones (up to Brian Jones' death, after not at all), but seen as a drummer I think that Charlie Watts is much more innovative! Have heard most of his solo albums and many are quite interesting, Ringo Starr after Beatles is a tongue-in-cheek entertainer, sometimes fun, but generally of quite low merit throughout! 

/ptr


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Ginger Baker once said that a good band with a bad drummer becomes a bad band - bearing in mind how much Charlie Watts must have felt like tearing his hair out when he tried to keep time in a group whose guitarists could be either brilliant or a total shambles live then perhaps Baker's equation can be tweaked to read 'bad band plus good drummer still equals bad band'.

Neither Starr nor Watts were flash, but Watts's jazz origins must have helped with his discipline, especially with the situation mentioned above. Starr essentially did what he had to, but he could still handle unconventional time signature fluctuations where necessary (i.e. the 'I need a fix...' and the 'Mother Superior jump the gun...' sections of Happiness Is A Warm Gun).

As regards their solo careers, I can't say much - Starr did have a fair amount of success after the Beatles split and 'Ringo' (1973) isn't a bad album at all, but I haven't heard too many nice things said about much else. Watts has always loved jazz so it's natural for any solo projects to reflect this, and as the Stones have been winding down somewhat since the late 80s I'm glad it's given him the opportunity to blow off some steam playing the kind of music which has always been close to his heart.


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

Ringo Starr based on "better career". Not saying he's the better drummer, but I'm just saying if someone asked me what band I wanted to play in in my career as a drummer, the answer doesn't get better than The Beatles.


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## Flabbadydoo (Dec 17, 2017)

I have to say that they both did good jobs in their respective rolls, but Ringo is by far the better and most important drummer. First of all, he is the ADAM of all rock drummers. There was never a rock drummer before him. The others that came before were only known to devotees, but were otherwise anonymous sidemen. Ringo was treated as a equal member of the group, was put on a pedestal so he could be seen, and even sang. Just for that he will be remembered, but he also created much of the drum set vocabulary that is used today. I could give a long list of Ringo innovations but here are a few: Using the crash cymbal as a ride--not just for impact points. Ringo played with the side of the stick on the edge of the cymbal to create a continuous roar that is still used today in rock drumming. Ringo often created a wash sound by playing a ride pattern on the half open-sloshy- high hat. He often did this with a side to side swinging motion. Again another effect that is used today and invented by Ringo. Ringo was the first drummer to use matched grip exclusively to get more power. Now almost all rock drummers do this {except Charlie}. Ringo invented the basic rock beat used today. When the Beatles began it was Boom Bop Bop Bop. You can here it on Twist and Shout. By A Hard Day's Night Ringo was playing Boom Bop Boom Boom Bop. This is the most common beat used today--and not heard before Ringo. I saw a similar forum which featured many prominent drummers playing some tasty beats and Ringo sat down and played this beat. Someone commented that he played number 2 in the first book of Rock drumming. I commented that it was okay for him to do that because he wrote it. He also created some the earliest (if not the first} linear beat patterns such as he used in In My Life. I could go on. Ringo has a instantly recognizable feel and style. His use of the toms is very singular. Neither drummer is known for their technical prowess, for intricate beat patterns or fills, but thought of drummers that played to suit the song. But to compare Charlie Watts to Ringo and not pick Ringo is to just have a prejudice against him. When did Charlie ever play anything as creative and interesting as what Ringo played on Come Together? Ticket to Ride? Rain? Tomorrow Never Knows? I Feel Fine? When I watch Charlie he is as stiff as a board. Ringo is fluid, rollicking and enjoying himself. List to Ringo's feel on A Day in the Life or the end of Strawberry Fields. I have much music by both bands and the only thing I ever heard Charlie play that I wanted to sit down and try was Honky Tonk Woman. Ringo hands down. Every rock drummer today carries his DNA. Ringo even wrote a few songs and sang some hits. The same can't be said for Charlie Watts. The First song I ever learned to play was She Loves You because I loved how Ringo used the low tom at the beginning and his use of Double Stops to create a huge sound (another innovation). Sorry Charlie.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Who was the better Thomas the Tank Engine voice, says it all


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Flabbadydoo said:


> I have to say that they both did good jobs in their respective rolls, but Ringo is by far the better and most important drummer. First of all, he is the ADAM of all rock drummers. There was never a rock drummer before him. The others that came before were only known to devotees, but were otherwise anonymous sidemen. Ringo was treated as a equal member of the group, was put on a pedestal so he could be seen, and even sang. Just for that he will be remembered, but he also created much of the drum set vocabulary that is used today. I could give a long list of Ringo innovations but here are a few: Using the crash cymbal as a ride--not just for impact points. Ringo played with the side of the stick on the edge of the cymbal to create a continuous roar that is still used today in rock drumming. Ringo often created a wash sound by playing a ride pattern on the half open-sloshy- high hat. He often did this with a side to side swinging motion. Again another effect that is used today and invented by Ringo. Ringo was the first drummer to use matched grip exclusively to get more power. Now almost all rock drummers do this {except Charlie}. Ringo invented the basic rock beat used today. When the Beatles began it was Boom Bop Bop Bop. You can here it on Twist and Shout. By A Hard Day's Night Ringo was playing Boom Bop Boom Boom Bop. This is the most common beat used today--and not heard before Ringo. I saw a similar forum which featured many prominent drummers playing some tasty beats and Ringo sat down and played this beat. Someone commented that he played number 2 in the first book of Rock drumming. I commented that it was okay for him to do that because he wrote it. He also created some the earliest (if not the first} linear beat patterns such as he used in In My Life. I could go on. Ringo has a instantly recognizable feel and style. His use of the toms is very singular. Neither drummer is known for their technical prowess, for intricate beat patterns or fills, but thought of drummers that played to suit the song. But to compare Charlie Watts to Ringo and not pick Ringo is to just have a prejudice against him. When did Charlie ever play anything as creative and interesting as what Ringo played on Come Together? Ticket to Ride? Rain? Tomorrow Never Knows? I Feel Fine? When I watch Charlie he is as stiff as a board. Ringo is fluid, rollicking and enjoying himself. List to Ringo's feel on A Day in the Life or the end of Strawberry Fields. I have much music by both bands and the only thing I ever heard Charlie play that I wanted to sit down and try was Honky Tonk Woman. Ringo hands down. Every rock drummer today carries his DNA. Ringo even wrote a few songs and sang some hits. The same can't be said for Charlie Watts. The First song I ever learned to play was She Loves You because I loved how Ringo used the low tom at the beginning and his use of Double Stops to create a huge sound (another innovation). Sorry Charlie.


A wonderful post about a great musician and person. Cheers.


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

Obviously Watts. Though he seems like a nice person and all, Ringo would have a hard time being any more mediocre as a drummer than he was/is and would not have garnered any attention had he not been in the Beatles (as evidenced by his very poor career following that).


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

hey Ringo sang Octopus's Garden.....good enough for me


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Not just because I’m a Beatles fan, but Ringo was better being more inventive than Watts. Forget his solo career, singing, etc. (ok leave in Thomas the Train), they only served to make him a joke. But his drumming has been copied, and become standard, so a lot of it is not remarkable, except for some songs. Watts was a mannequin.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2017)

Starting off my musical career as a drummer for many years before I ever thought of playing a guitar or bass onstage, I listened to a lot of both Ringo and Watts. I learned a lot listening to both. Ringo's solo stuff is a lot better than people here give it credit for. I listen to the Beatles Channel on Sirius/XM a lot and they play a lot of solo Ringo and I'm impressed with a lot of his stuff and I really like the drum production values. His drums are up close and personal. He doesn't hide anything. He was always a great fill drummer. I dissected a lot of his fills and some of them I still can't figure out. He's left-handed but plays a right-handed kit but leads with the left hand so it is difficult to follow and has a very distinctive sound. Very good sense of timing.

Charlie Watts kind of sealed the drum thing for me with that intro to "Honky Tonk Women." That made me want to play drums. Nice attacks on "Ruby Tuesday" and very explosive on "Tumbling Dice"." Nice timing on "Shattered." Good dynamics on "Mother's Little Helper." I picked up on all that stuff as a young drummer. And, of course, his forays into jazz are always a welcome thing for me.

Frankly, rather than try to decide which is better, I'm just glad I had them both to listen to. They both taught me a lot.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

I will always go with the one that swung!


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

I'd go with Jasper Carrott on this one: - "Ringo isn't the best drummer in the world. He isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles"


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Both great drummers. But Charlie Watts can drive a big band and I can’t imagine Ringo Starr being able to do that. Nevertheless, Ringo in his element is just tremendous with his more relaxed happy beat. They deserve a gold star just for their longevity. The Beatles never would’ve been the stratospheric success without Ringo. His spirit is just so natural and wonderful.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Flabbadydoo said:


> I have to say that they both did good jobs in their respective rolls, but Ringo is by far the better and most important drummer. First of all, he is the ADAM of all rock drummers. There was never a rock drummer before him. The others that came before were only known to devotees, but were otherwise anonymous sidemen. Ringo was treated as a equal member of the group, was put on a pedestal so he could be seen, and even sang. Just for that he will be remembered, but he also created much of the drum set vocabulary that is used today. I could give a long list of Ringo innovations but here are a few: Using the crash cymbal as a ride--not just for impact points. Ringo played with the side of the stick on the edge of the cymbal to create a continuous roar that is still used today in rock drumming. Ringo often created a wash sound by playing a ride pattern on the half open-sloshy- high hat. He often did this with a side to side swinging motion. Again another effect that is used today and invented by Ringo. Ringo was the first drummer to use matched grip exclusively to get more power. Now almost all rock drummers do this {except Charlie}. Ringo invented the basic rock beat used today. When the Beatles began it was Boom Bop Bop Bop. You can here it on Twist and Shout. By A Hard Day's Night Ringo was playing Boom Bop Boom Boom Bop. This is the most common beat used today--and not heard before Ringo. I saw a similar forum which featured many prominent drummers playing some tasty beats and Ringo sat down and played this beat. Someone commented that he played number 2 in the first book of Rock drumming. I commented that it was okay for him to do that because he wrote it. He also created some the earliest (if not the first} linear beat patterns such as he used in In My Life. I could go on. Ringo has a instantly recognizable feel and style. His use of the toms is very singular. Neither drummer is known for their technical prowess, for intricate beat patterns or fills, but thought of drummers that played to suit the song. But to compare Charlie Watts to Ringo and not pick Ringo is to just have a prejudice against him. When did Charlie ever play anything as creative and interesting as what Ringo played on Come Together? Ticket to Ride? Rain? Tomorrow Never Knows? I Feel Fine? When I watch Charlie he is as stiff as a board. Ringo is fluid, rollicking and enjoying himself. List to Ringo's feel on A Day in the Life or the end of Strawberry Fields. I have much music by both bands and the only thing I ever heard Charlie play that I wanted to sit down and try was Honky Tonk Woman. Ringo hands down. Every rock drummer today carries his DNA. Ringo even wrote a few songs and sang some hits. The same can't be said for Charlie Watts. The First song I ever learned to play was She Loves You because I loved how Ringo used the low tom at the beginning and his use of Double Stops to create a huge sound (another innovation). Sorry Charlie.


Great first post, welcome to Talk Classical.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

OK so I’ll admit I’m biased, have seen one of them live with the boys and…..


October 2016. I’m sitting in a little square in the very stunning Ronda, Spain. A small dapper man walks by and stops to take a picture of the fountain. Dressed all in linen, blue shirt and kaki trousers, and there’s not a crease to be seen. He pushes his sunglasses to the top of his head as he raises the largish camera. Then the penny drops. Well you don’t expect to see Charlie Watts doing the tourist bit, do you? Still looks f+++++’ cool.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Yay, arise Sir Richard Starkey. About time too.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

As knighthoods have been dished out to celebrities like party sweets for the last quarter of a century or more it was only a matter of time before Ringo got one, I suppose. Good on him, nonetheless.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Flabbadydoo said:


> I have to say that they both did good jobs in their respective rolls, but Ringo is by far the better and most important drummer.


Thanks for your post. I'm a casual Beatles listener, and somehow I picked up the rumor that Bernard Purdie was the drummer on the recordings. Apparently that isn't true. I have more respect for Ringo now.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Bernard Purdie's only tenuous connection with the Beatles was that apparently he played on the soundtrack of the dreadful Sgt. Pepper film remake in 1978 that had absolutely nothing to do with the Beatles themselves!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Barbebleu said:


> Bernard Purdie's only tenuous connection with the Beatles was that apparently he played on the soundtrack of the dreadful Sgt. Pepper film remake in 1978 that had absolutely nothing to do with the Beatles themselves!


Fortunately, he has enough hits under his belt that he can survive that kind of thing.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> Fortunately, he has enough hits under his belt that he can survive that kind of thing.


Yes indeed. I have him on a fair few jazz albums playing with the likes of Larry Coryell, Yusef Lateef et al.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)




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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

The question is not who is the better drummer, but who had the better career.

Our opinions cannot be measured, but there are results that can be:

Who has sold more records?
Who has a higher net worth?
Who has given more back to charitable causes?

This thread is a continuation of the neverendingdebateofstonesvsbeatles. I like apples and oranges!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Room2201974 said:


> The question is not who is the better drummer, but who had the better career.
> 
> Our opinions cannot be measured, but there are results that can be:
> 
> ...


sure, if you're assuming that better career is considered by a financial point of view and not from an artistic point of view.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Ringo got to marry Barbara Bach

sorry Charlie, but you can't beat that :lol:


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

norman bates said:


> sure, if you're assuming that better career is considered by a financial point of view and not from an artistic point of view.


 "Artistic point of view" is an opinion and cannot be measured. I was trying to stick to categories of success that could be!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Room2201974 said:


> "Artistic point of view" is an opinion and cannot be measured. I was trying to stick to categories of success that could be!


than Thomas Kinkade had a much better career than Van Gogh and E. L. James as a writer has a better career than Kafka. And Justin Bieber have a better career than Bach. I don't know, I hope that at least here people are more interested in music and art than in how big is the swimming pool in the holiday residence of a certain musician. Sure, you could measure those things, their wealth and the number of copies they sold but are you really interested in that stuff?


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

norman bates said:


> than Thomas Kinkade had a much better career than Van Gogh and E. L. James as a writer has a better career than Kafka. And Justin Bieber have a better career than Bach. I don't know, I hope that at least here people are more interested in music and art than in how big is the swimming pool in the holiday residence of a certain musician. Sure, you could measure those things, their wealth and the number of copies they sold but are you really interested in that stuff?


Interested in that stuff? Only as far as it can be used as a measurement in the absence of any other form of measurement.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> Ringo got to marry Barbara Bach
> 
> sorry Charlie, but you can't beat that :lol:


Oh yeah? Maybe Charlie had a better relationship with his band mates?


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Oh yeah? Maybe Charlie had a better relationship with his band mates?


I'm sure he did, there's no doubt about that, but I did the math and I came up with

Barbara Bach > Ronny Wood

so I had to give Ringo the edge


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