# design a religion



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

This is not supposed to be a debate - the question isn't which or whether any religion is true, or better, or whatever. The question is instead, regardless of truth, what do you imagine would be the features of a socially optimal religion? I'm thinking of post-industrial society, but you can imagine other kinds of society if you want. 

For instance, I'd say the religion should teach that the gods reward (or punish interference with): 
- education, literacy
- free speech and free press 
- technological innovation
- scientific research
- honest and unforced trade 
- hard work and efficiency 
- thrift and other forms of self-discipline 
- investment
- honest legal judgement 
- participation in democratic processes
- social ambition 
- violence only in the case of self-defense 
- care for children 
- anti-xenophobia 
- cleanliness
- marital fidelity 

The religion would have to use psychological technology to be persuasive / fulfilling, such as: 
- song and dance 
- monumental architecture
- arresting imagery - probably at least somewhat sexual and violent
- memorable mythology - probably best if it's explicitly understood not to be literally true, but ambiguous and thus subject to multiple interpretations 
- a ritual at which food is shared between the believers 
- rites of passage, including at least birth, adulthood, and marriage
- voluntary poverty for the religious professionals 
- a ritual for nightly observance by families 
- some kind of very demanding mystical order - probably best if they are explicitly forbidden from verbally expressing their mystical experiences except with regard to emotional content 
- a wide variety of traditions of theological speculation accepted as orthodox, and an explicit principle that moral self-criticism and prayerful introspection are the primary modes of theological activity 

Well, that ought to get us started!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

*Ligeti* is the god.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> *Ligeti* is the god.


I suspect you'll have to work something out with Couchie.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

science said:


> I suspect you'll have to work something out with Couchie.


Don't worry. Brahms and Elgar are basically the Devil.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Don't worry. Brahms and Elgar are basically the Devil.


The truly initiated know that all Composers are really just different revelations of the one true unknowable Composer.

Edit: Deep in our heart of hearts, in the most secret chamber of our deepest heart, we all know the Devil is the hero of the story.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> This is not supposed to be a debate - the question isn't which or whether any religion is true, or better, or whatever. The question is instead, regardless of truth, what do you imagine would be the features of a socially optimal religion? I'm thinking of post-industrial society, but you can imagine other kinds of society if you want.
> [...]
> The religion would have to use psychological technology to be persuasive / fulfilling, such as:
> - song and dance
> ...


Sorry, have to quote a lot of your formula for reference. Deleted what I'll call 'Part A - Ideal Results', for lack of disagreement.

Now, I will copy the remainder to an RTF file, so I can work on my Designer Religion (which won't be much like yours - or Zoroaster's)

I'll get back to you


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Hilltroll72 said:


> Sorry, have to quote a lot of your formula for reference. Deleted what I'll call 'Part A - Ideal Results', for lack of disagreement.
> 
> Now, I will copy the remainder to an RTF file, so I can work on my Designer Religion (which won't be much like yours - or Zoroaster's)
> 
> I'll get back to you


I look forward to it!


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

*The Revelation of God*

In this world, every man and woman enters adulthood on the day that their Creator reveals Itself to them. It may happen as early as 12-years-old, or it may be as late as 25, but all people will speak with It directly and know Its wisdom first-hand, for no individual has the integrity and authority to be the voice of Its message on Earth. There are thus millions of revelations each year, and each one is different from every other, the experience being directed by the few questions that a person is permitted to ask. Few revelations have been recorded as human memory is inaccurate and untrustworthy, but those few deemed useful and consistent with the revelations of others are written in the Book of Visions. One such record is the Revelation of Polednice, to whom the Creator spoke during his 21st transit around the Earth's Sun:

*Creator*: Polednice, it is I, your Creator, Shaper of Universes and Giver of Life. I speak to you today to usher you into adulthood, and to impart upon you some knowledge of your origins and your purpose.

*Polednice*: I have waited eagerly for this day since I first understood that you existed! But how can I know it is you? Couldn't this be fraudulent foolery, or neurological trickery?

*Creator*: You cannot know for certain that it is your Creator who speaks to you now; nothing can be known with such certainty. You can only trust in my revelation, and trust that the words I speak to you now are consistent with the words I have spoken to countless billions of your brethren.

*Polednice*: Then I shall probe that question no more, and instead indulge in my curiosity for what you have to say, bearing in mind that you may or may not be the real Creator. Tell me, what form do you take? Is mankind a creation in your image, or are you an amorphous intelligence?

*Creator*: I both have no form, and any form that my creations desire me to take. To the humans of the this planet, I am understood as an anthropomorphic entity, as this makes it easiest for you to comprehend me. To your fellow animals, I may appear and talk as any of them. To the water-dwellers of Saturn's Enceladus, I am a fellow water-dweller; to the creatures on Titan who breathe methane, I also breathe methane.

*Polednice*: Does that mean that none of your living creations are superior to any other?

*Creator*: All life-forms, with any level of consciousness or unconsciousness, are equal to me and should consider themselves equal to each other. No single life-form was ever created in an instant. Instead, you are all inter-connected as part of a process of development and change. Humans are as transient as those many millions of creatures now extinct, but you are no less valuable, and nor are they.

*Polednice*: If we are all the products of an ever-reforming process, what was there in the beginning? How did our world, and the life of this world, begin?

*Creator*: The complexities of my nature and of my creation put the answer to such a question beyond the capabilities of the human mind. In metaphorical terms, you could consider the origin of your universe, which is one of many, an explosion of unimaginable immensity, with the resultant order and chaos all being subject to the same fundamental physical laws, and it is these physical laws which give rise to life. Life is merely a complex manifestation of the unchanging function of atoms and their constituents.

*Polednice*: Are we merely material, then? Do we have no divine essence?

*Creator*: No divine essence is required. Everything about you, from your bodily functions to your sense of self, is coded for and built by your genes, which are themselves a simple material entity. Nevertheless, once your body perishes, what became of your consciousness throughout your life will be transmuted into an immaterial, eternal form, where it shall rest forever with me in paradise.

*Polednice*: Is the same true for all creatures?

*Creator*: Just as all creatures of all kinds on all worlds are equal, so too they have equal access to me in death.

*Polednice*: Must we follow any commandments to be worthy of your presence?

*Creator*: There are no requirements - all people will enter paradise despite their achievements and failures in life, though, just as on Earth people must live with the consequences of their actions as defined by human society and culture, so too must people live with the consequences of their worldly actions in the after-life.

*Polednice*: But if there are no requirements, and all are welcomed into paradise, how are we to know how to live? How are we to know what is good?

*Creator*: This is another thing that you cannot know, and it is something that I also cannot. You must understand the most important attribute of my nature now, Polednice. I am fallible. Great, but flawed. Though my intelligence and power is such that I am forever creating universes variously capable and incapable of life, and am always ushering the dead into paradise, I am not beyond reproach, and, as such, I cannot be your law-giver.

My intrinsically imperfect nature is fundamentally apparent in your own world. Though you may find it intensely beautiful, beauty itself being proof of my existence, these feelings are misguided; you feel beauty for your world simply because you originated within it, and so came to appreciate it because it is where you must live. But see all the suffering; see all the needless viruses and diseases and parasites; see the strife and unhappiness that you humans are capable of - these are not the products of a perfect being; this was not a perfect creation.

I, like you, am a fallible life-form, but of a more complex nature. My purpose is to perpetually create new worlds in the hope that, one day, I can create one as perfect as paradise, which was the last universe left behind by my predecessor. Once creatures of my kind create a perfect universe, we move on in our own way, just as you shall. I have not yet achieved this, and I do not know when I will. Your universe was an imperfect one - not the worst of my creations, but certainly not the best I will achieve. Nevertheless, it is my duty and responsibility not to abandon any of the products of my creations, and human life is one of them.

*Polednice*: This astounds me. Your greatness has always led me to believe that you are perfect, but I understand that this is not true. You are simply the origin of life, but nothing more, in the same way that my father was necessary to my existence, but he is not without failures. This is both amazing and discouraging. I thought revelation would bring me answers, but instead it invites a thousand-fold more questions. How are us humans, infinitely less capable than you, meant to determine the best path to happiness and glory?

*Creator*: Polednice, humans are far more capable than me of determining that path, because the path is different for all life-forms depending on their nature. Only you can know what happiness is, and what suffering is, and only you can work with other humans to promote one and prevent the other in the best ways that you can. You should know only that there are no rules from me, and so you should not listen to the dogmas of your peers. You must instead spend your life forging your own purpose, attaining your own happiness. As I have seen, there are undoubtedly better methods than others, some of which you will soon learn, but always know that no person's life exists in independence from another - the food you eat, the medicines you require, the entertainment that nourishes you are all the fruits of others' labours, and many before you have lived to learn that acting selfishly at the expense of others' happiness soon has a dear price to pay.

Now, Polednice, I must leave you in your new-found adulthood. There is nothing more I can tell you at this time, except that you would be well-served to remember the words we have exchanged today as long as your mind permits, and, though it shall not be a rule, I would advise you to treat the world skeptically and to question the authority that your fellow humans dress themselves in. I shall see you on the day that your body perishes.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Why the big answers? Every religion is the same.

Man-A: Do as I say or else!

Man-B: Who put you in charge?

Man-A: God...

Man-B: Yeah right :lol:

Man-A: Heathen! STONE HIM!

Man-B:


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

science said:


> - memorable mythology - probably best if it's explicitly understood not to be literally true, but ambiguous and thus subject to multiple interpretations


Now that is a dangerous path that will inevitably lead to conflict.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

http://imgur.com/1bKSn


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Philip said:


> http://imgur.com/1bKSn


He did a helluva job, too.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hilltroll72 said:


> He did a helluva job, too.


On the other hand, so did the Catholic church quickly figure out how to make more than a few shekels and sesteres from the peaking vogue of mysticism sweeping the Mediterranean world at the time.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

Philip said:


> http://imgur.com/1bKSn


You better watch your back *Philip*, *Tom Cruz* is gonna go ape ****. :angel:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Philip said:


> ...


I thought of this as well!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

_science_, this thread's topic begs for less subtlety of humor and more "highdeas".

If only I were in that special vague yet assuredly inspired state of mind I sometimes get, to contribute in the way I see fit.


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