# Gigantic Basses



## Guest

Basses are big instruments, of course, and it doesn't matter what kind of instrument it is. If it's bass, it's big. This is because a bass instrument must produce low frequency sound waves which are a much bigger and longer than higher frequency waves. As a result, they travel further which is why foghorns are usually of low pitch--to warn vessels at sea further out so they have less chance of running upon the rocks. For instruments, the production of bass frequencies require longer and/or thicker strings and/or larger resonance chambers. A tuba is lower pitched than a trumpet because it has larger diameter tubing as well as many inches of extra tubing that a trumpet does not. A bass violin has a longer scale length (the section of string between nut and bridge) as well as thicker diameter strings than a regular violin and its large resonance chamber allow the low frequencies to form inside it.

Here, we are going to read about some of the largest known bass violins. In his 1620 work, _Theatrum Instrumentorum_, Praetorius includes in Plate V, a 5-string _Gross Contra-Bass Geig_ that stood about 7 feet and 4 inches tall. Its scale length could vary between 51-55 inches (today's basses don't generally go more than 42 inches).










The reason for this huge bass was to reach 16' D. A bass very similar to this one is housed at the Brussels Museum although it is in very poor shape.

There is a 1731 account by the baron of Pollnitz concerning a huge bass he had seen in the collection of the duke of Saxe-Merseburg, Wilhelm Mauritz, who had invited the baron to Merseburg on the Saal River in Germany to see his instrument collection. The baron wrote:

_The Prince led me to a hall that was entirely clad with bass viols like an armoury of helmets and breast-plates. In the middle of the hall, a viol stood conspicuously among all the others. It reached to the wooden ceiling and could be played by means of a ladder with several steps. It was indeed the grandest bass ever built... The Duke made me admire it greatly and was pleased by the applause I gave him. He also entertained me with a few pieces which he played on a bass he called his Favourite and which was but an in quarto in comparison to the other... At the lodgings, I came upon one of the Duke's gentlemen..., and I brought up the subject of his Master's bass viols; whereupon he told me, without requiring much pressing: "You know that every man has a taste of his own, Princes and commoners alike; one is fond of magnificence, the other of troops, a third one has mistresses. As for my august Master, he only likes bass viols, and whoever wishes to seek employment or benefit from a favour, cannot do any better than to enrich his 'arsenal' with one of these instruments. The large machine that you saw in the hall, where all the viols are displayed, was given to him by a man who wanted to be Private-Counsellor. He obtained this title, and could have obtained anything he asked."_

Ah, a duke after my own heart!! I would have loved to have seen his collection!!

An 1872 article from Die Gartenlaube magazine contained an account of a 1615 concert in Dresden which featured a double bass so large that it had to be transported via a cart pulled by eight mules. The bass measured over 13 feet high. The bassist was a virtuoso named Rapodsky who was obliged to climb deftly up and down a ladder to play the beast. But even this bass could not go low enough and so a second bass team had strung a four-inch thick cable tautly between two arms of a windmill whereupon two men drew across its length very quickly a two-man carpenter's saw with the teeth filed down to nubs that made the cable vibrate producing a deep, sonorous tone. The two teams of bassists worked in skillful unison much to the great delight of the audience.

In the Victoria & Albert Museum in London sits a 9-foot tall 17th century bass that had once belonged to the great 19th century virtuoso bassist Domenico Dragonetti (1763-1846). It was called "The Giant."









Dragonetti's Giant. Like many basses of that time, it had three strings (but was originally built for four). The E string back then had tendency to twist while being bowed on making it inaudible. Since the lowest string was rarely used for soloing, many bassists and bass makers began omit the string. This reduced tension on the belly plate of the instrument allowing it to vibrate more freely and therefore with greater volume. Until wound string technology improved in the 1920s, most basses were three-stringed.









Dragonetti, left, photographed in the Italian Opera orchestra of London. Although Italian, Dragonetti spent little time in Italy due to Napoleon's occupation and spent most of his life in England starting in the 1790s. He also played a lot in continental Europe and was great friends with composers as Liszt and Beethoven who were astonished at the speed and dexterity that Dragonetti possessed that enabled him to play the huge, unwieldy basses with far more proficiencyand complexity than any other bassist. Beethoven was encouraged by Dragonetti's talent to write more complex bass sections for his pieces but would have to hire Dragonetti to play them as no one else could (he had huge, meaty, powerful hands and long fingers with broad, flattened tips). In the days before conductors, the principal bassist was responsible for keeping the orchestra in time and Dragonetti was considered with virtual unanimity to be the best time-keeper ever. Dragonetti played in the Italian Opera for over 50 years and died in London.

Dragonetti left the Giant to his close friend and student, Charles William, the fourth Duke of Leinster. The duke lent it out for the 19th century Mammoth Concerts which were quite popular at that time but donated it to the museum in 1872.

Bartolomeo Cristofori, inventor of the piano hammer mechanism, built a bass in the city of Florence in 1715 that stood 7 feet high. It was built for four strings but a fifth was added in 1904 by Valentino De-Zorzi. Today, the bass is housed at the Florence Conservatoire.

In 1787, King George III commissioned William Forster II to build a double bass so large that it could not be outdone. Forster completed the task two years later. Apparently, Forster built several such basses for George. This one was used for almost 50 years before it was acquired by a dealer named William Davis in 1838. It was sold by Sotheby's at a public auction in the U.S. in 1972.









A 5-string bass commissioned by George and built by Forster circa 1795. It has roughly the same dimensions as the 1789 bass. I can find no information on how tall the bass is but its scale in only about 42 inches which is not any different on modern basses. Both my basses have a 41-inch scale length.









Scroll of the Forster bass.

There is an account of a huge double bass made in England in the late 1780s by a man named Martin who owned a tavern of sorts called The Blackamoor Lady. This instrument was so large that a hole had to be cut in the ceiling to stand it upright and the tuning pegs were only accessible by climbing to the upper floor. A bassist named William Boyce, quite famous in his day, was chosen to play the beast. A writer named William Gardiner was invited by Martin to witness the event. When Boyce began to bow, the sound was so loud and powerful that the walls shook and people ran outside in fear. Martin yelled to Boyce his apprehension that the establishment was ready to collapse if Boyce continued any longer. Lost in ecstasy, Boyce yelled back, "Let it!"

Boyce later had a somewhat smaller version of Martin's bass made for the Westminster Abbey Festival held in May of 1791. It was said to be larger than the Forster bass of 1789. Gardiner attended the festival and wrote:

_The orchestra was so very steep that it was dangerous to come down, and some accidents took place; one of a ludicrous nature. A person falling upon a double bass, as it lay on its side, immediately disappeared; nothing was seen of him but his legs protruding out of then [sic] instrument. For some time, no one could assist him for laughing._

During the French Revolution there existed a bass in France so tall that the player required a ladder to stop the strings, according to Adrien de la Fage. It was played publicly during national holidays. When the king was restored to power--presumably during the Bourbon Restoration of 1814--the bass served as an unhappy reminder of the Revolution and so was stored away in a warehouse that was part of the king's conservatory. There it sat for some years before disappearing apparently for good.

In the second decade of the 19th century, an odd but very intriguing 7-stringed double bass machine played with a mechanized bow was installed at Vienna's Kaernthnerthor theatre. The bass was so large that even the largest orchestral basses were in scale about the size of a cello to a double bass. An account of this singular instrument is found in the Revue musicale. But whatever became of this monster is not known.


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## Guest

In London in 1832, James Ayton debuted his huge bass at the Corn Exchange. I am not sure how tall it was but the strings themselves were eight feet long. It was not fingered but rather used a slide with a handle that was so easy to operate that the player who demonstrated the instrument was able to give an adequate recital with only some five hours of practice. The sound was supposedly excellent and the dynamic range was superb. The instrument could be played with the softness of a cello or the volume of double bass but with far more power.

By 1849, Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume debuted his octobasse in Paris at Exposition des Produits de l'Industrie. Unlike the other giant basses which have disappeared over the years often without even a photographic trace, we still have the octobasse with us because so many composers wrote for it including Mahler, Berlioz, Richard Strauss, Brahms, Wagner and Tchaikovsky. Tuned C1-G1-C2 has led many to believe that the octobasse plays a full octave below the double bass but actually plays a third below the E-string of the double bass.









Octobasse.









The octobasse stands about 12 feet and 3 inches tall.









The bow used on the octobasse is actually rather short otherwise it would be too difficult for one person to play.









One does not finger the strings on an octobasse but rather operate levers that clamp the frets down on top of the strings to stop them.

In 1889, John Geyer of Cincinnati constructed the largest bass that I know of. It stood an astonishing 15 feet and 9 inches tall! There was no mechanism by which one player could control everything and so it was not seen as anything more than a curiosity.

The Chicago Opera Company commissioned a huge double bass from German luthier Otto Roth in 1905. It stood over 13 feet and 9 inches tall. But this bass was not meant to be played on directly. Some kind of electro-mechanical linkage was installed on a specially modified bow that the player used on a regular double bass coupled to a kind of mechanical hand with felt-tipped "fingers" to stop the strings on the larger bass that enabled the player's movements to be mimicked. This produced a huge bass sound that could be both heard and felt. It was employed during storm and battle scenes and such where it caused the walls and floor to tremble much to the delight and terror of the audience. The instrument was written up in an article in 1906.









Workshop of luthier Otto Roth in Markneukirchen, Germany. The photo is dated 1903 meaning the huge bass shown was apparently not the one commissioned by the Chicago Opera Company. Proof that these huge basses were constantly being built and are not just hear-say.


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## Guest

The offices of music publisher Carl Fischer at Cooper Square in New York had a 4-string double bass during the 1920s that stood 11 feet and 8 inches tall. _The Strad_ magazine published a photo of it in the #429 issue.

Acting on the orders of the archangel Gabriel, Arthur K. Ferris of Ionia, New Jersey built a huge bass in 1924. It stood about 14 feet tall. But what was truly astonishing was that it weighed about 1300 lbs!! Its leather strings ran in total an excess of 100 feet. It could not be heard as it fell below the threshold of human hearing.

About that same time in Urbana, Ohio, Harry Burris built a huge bass after seeing a 13-foot monster in a magazine.









Not sure if this is a very large bass or a regular-sized played by a midget.









So why not a huge guy playing a regular-sized bass?


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## Ilarion

If my memory serves me, there is an Octobass Luthier in Italy named Antonio Dattis who can build you an Octobass if you have the discretionary funding languishing in a useless Savings Account at ABC Bank in DEF Township.


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## Guest

And 15 foot ceiling.


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## MoonlightSonata

I've always been tempted to write for octobass (in an orchestra, of course), but I don't suppose they're common enough.


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## Guest

When I first heard this Naked City piece, I thought they were using an octobass. And maybe they are but I doubt it. If Ihad been the producer of this session, it definitely would have been an octobass.






Real octobass:


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## Guest

The magnificent scroll and pegbox of a William Forster bass.









Could this be John Geyer's 15' bass in Cincinnati mentioned earlier? It's unplayable at any rate because there is no way to stop the strings.


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## Guest

A bass on acid played by Brian Smith of the World Bass Violin Ensemble.


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## clockworkmurderer

This is a really cool thread, just thought I'd say. I had no idea about such things. Thanks for sharing


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## Guest

Thanks for reading!


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## Guest

I now believe this to be John Ferris's 14-foot bass from Ironia, NJ taken in 1935.


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## Guest




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## Guest

Victor Redseal said:


> In the Victoria & Albert Museum in London sits a 9-foot tall 17th century bass that had once belonged to the great 19th century virtuoso bassist Domenico Dragonetti (1763-1846). It was called "The Giant."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dragonetti's Giant. Like many basses of that time, it had three strings (but was originally built for four). The E string back then had tendency to twist while being bowed on making it inaudible. Since the lowest string was rarely used for soloing, many bassists and bass makers began omit the string. This reduced tension on the belly plate of the instrument allowing it to vibrate more freely and therefore with greater volume. Until wound string technology improved in the 1920s, most basses were three-stringed.


I learned some time ago that the photo I've identified as Dragonetti's Giant is in error but I kept forgetting to rectify the error. The above photo is not the Giant. This is:


















An attempted restoration.









The back of the Giant. Note the long crack.


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## Guest

Not quite so gigantic.


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## arpeggio

I just discovered this thread myself. Awesome information. Thanks.


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## tortkis

Victor Redseal said:


> I now believe this to be John Ferris's 14-foot bass from Ironia, NJ taken in 1935.


There are a couple of photos of Ferris's Big Fiddle (and Giant Loot Harp) in this booklet of If Tigers were Clouds.

http://www.innova.mu/sites/www.innova.mu/files/album/files/zeitgeist_notes.pdf

The album contains recordings of improvisations on some of the Ferris instruments (mother lap cello harp, whispering harp, ...)


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## Pugg

Victor Redseal said:


>


I wonder how this sounds?


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## clockworkmurderer

If the video of an Octobass is anything to go by, it sounds almost like a helicopter but with strings instead of a rotor. I like to imagine that in real life you could feel the sound waves bouncing around inside your body cavities.


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## Pugg

clockworkmurderer said:


> If the video of an Octobass is anything to go by, it sounds almost like a helicopter but with strings instead of a rotor. I like to imagine that in real life you could feel the sound waves bouncing around inside your body cavities.


Very good answer .


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## clockworkmurderer

Speaking of colossal instruments, I must say that I absolutely love pipe organs and I'm quite fascinated by Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City; an entire stadium sized pipe organ. Sadly, the giant has fallen into disrepair, but around a third of it is playable and even just a third is still likely the largest pipe organ around. I want to go there someday; I picture myself lying on the floor in the very middle while Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is played. Gives me goosebumps even just imagining it. I really hope that the following youtube video is available in all countries, because everyone should listen to it (at top volume, naturally) just to fuel their imagination, even if it's actually a fairly terrible recording.


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## Richannes Wrahms

> Unlike the other giant basses which have disappeared over the years often without even a photographic trace, we still have the octobasse with us because so many composers wrote for it including Mahler, Berlioz, Richard Strauss, Brahms, Wagner and Tchaikovsky.


Everybody knows Brahms' sonata for octobass and magnetic tape.


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## Guest

http://www.openculture.com/2015/12/...ntuan-string-instrument-invented-in-1850.html

Some idiots online are saying the octobass is "stupid," "not a real instrument" and "useless." It was "useless" because it gets too low to hear, you see. He never heard of doubling where two instruments in different ranges play in unison. With a regular bass and an octobass, you create a sound that is not only audible but you feel it inside and around you throbbing. Nothing else can achieve that. It sounds nice on Bach pieces as the above link demonstrates.

As far as it not being a real instrument, let me tell you a true story: I was mouthing off to a shipmate in my Navy days that being a DJ is just a lot of crap. A guy making money just spinning records-big deal. Try playing an instrument, I told him. He was a DJ and did not play an instrument. A little while later we rented a flat off the ship to stay in while we were in port. He set up his DJ rig in the kitchen area-mixer, two turntables, speakers-a basic rig. He laid out a few records and started running through some basic DJ exercises. When he finished, he bade me to give it a try since I had said it was just a lot of bunk then I should be able to show him how it's done. Needless to say, I was less than stellar. In fact, I did nothing at all because I had no idea how to start. He tried to help me but it didn't do much good because I had no talent for this kind of thing at all. Then he started getting a lot more complicated by isolating a beat on one record while manipulating the other turntable and mixer with the other hand but never lost that isolated bit of beat. And he was rapping over top of it! He was using this bit of a beat as his drum track by constant pulling the record backwards with his finger to the beginning of the beat and letting play then pulling it back again and again and again. But you had to be fast and you couldn't miss a beat or the whole thing would be thrown off. It sounded like a continuous, seamless drum track the way he did it. And I knew I could not possibly do that. "And I'm not even that good," he said. He tried out for a DJ competition and didn't make the cut. There were people WAY better than him, he said. Needless to say, I was properly shamed and learned after that to shut my big mouth. It's a lot of work to be a good DJ. It's not easy at all and if you think it is-try it.

So I would like to see this moron who said the octobass is not a real instrument stand before one and have an experienced player hand him his bow and say, "Okay, play me something." And when the guy just stands there looking like an idiot the way I did, the other guy can try to help him out: "Just play 'Mary Had a Little Lamb', you know, just something simple like that." The first thought in his head will the same one in my head, "I should have kept my big stupid trap shut!"













































Yes, that is a normal size violin.


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## Guest




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