# A further exploration of choral music



## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

Hi there,

As an avid listener to classical music, I especially like most of the great choral works; I recently went to see Handel's Messiah at the Barbican. From the works I list below which I already own, could someone please provide me with further listening to develop my choral music library?

The following are works that I currently own, as well as the recordings.

1) Handel Messiah with Heather Harper, Helen Watts, John Wakefield and John Shirley-Quirk. The London Symphony Chorus and Orchestra is conducted by Sir Colin Davis.

2) Elgar The Dream Of Gerontius with Dame Janet Baker, Richard Lewis and Kim Borg. The Halle Choir and Orchestra, Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus and Ambrosian Singers are all conducted by Sir John Barbirolli.

3a) Sir William Walton Belshazzar's Feast with Christopher Purves and the Huddersfield Choral Society, Leeds Philharmonic Chorus and English Northern Philharmonia all conducted by Paul Daniel.

b) Sir William Walton Belshazzar's Feast with Sir Willard White and the Leeds Festival Chorus and BBC Symphony Chorus and Orchestra all conducted by Sir Andrew Davis.

Where do I go next, and with which recordings. Please avoid Karajan and Barenboim.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Scoff if you like, but I'm a big fan of Arvo Pärt's choral music. Check out his _Te Deum_. (There are only two recordings, so far as I know. I have Tõnu Klajuste's. Paul Hillier's is probably also very good.)


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## LouisMasterMusic (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm not one for Arvo Part. What I'm looking for is recommendations like Mozart's Requiem, Brahms's Ein Deutsches Requiem, Faure's Requiem, Bach's Coffee Cantata, and some 20th century music, like Tippett's A Child Of Our Time. Please recommend recordings, but avoid Karajan and Barenboim.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I suppose the clearest fit to your first list would be the oratorios of *Mendelssohn*: _Elijah_ and _Paulus_, I particularly like Herreweghe for these but the de Burgos Elijah is a must. Maybe *Liszt*'s choral works too which are under appreciated _Via Crucis_ or _Christus_ and perhaps *Haydn*'s oratorios _The Creation_ and _The Seasons_. All Haydn's masses are worth a listen to as well particularly the Hickox set who also recorded a collection of *Hummel*'s choral work that might suit you.

I love _A Child Of Our Time_ reminds me to listen to it again. Similar 20thC works that might suit are *Adam*'s _El Niño_, *Britten*'s _War Requiem_ or the 4 passions commissioned for the year 2000 by *Tan Dun*, *Osvaldo Golijov*, *Sofía Gubaidúlina* and *Wolfgang Rihm*. _Rihm_'s other choral works _Vigilia_ or _Astralis_ or *Lang*'s _The Little Match Girl Passion_. Penderecki's _Polish requiem_, _St. Luke Passion_ and _Utrenja_ as well as *Schoenberg*'s _Gurrelieder_ and _Die Jakobsleiter_. Also the work that most reminds me of Brahms' Requiem is *Hindemith*'s requiem entitled _When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd_.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Britten ~ War Requiem (premiere recording with the composer conducting.)

Stravinsky ~ Mass / Persephone / Oedipus Rex / Threni (Columbia / Sony, The composer conducting)

John Adams ~ Harmonium (there are two recordings each with the San Francisco Symphony & Chorus: you want the one with the COMPOSER conducting.)

Ravel ~ exception, a ballet score with a full chorus (wordless) as an additional section of an already very large orchestra.bThere are two orchestral suites from this, only the complete version uses the chorus. 
[[Aside from the fact it is not with the contextual angle you are seeking, ignore at the risk of your missing a hugely rewarding and luscious score with some gorgeous choral writing.]]
Budget re-release - Charles Munch, Boston Symphony; _and / or_ Pierre Boulez, Berlin Philharmonic.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I cannot stress enough to check out the Renaissance era. Nearly anything by Josquin, Palestrina, Victoria, and Lassus are worth a listen. These were monumental figures in the history of choral music, and of music in general.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd agree that you shouldn't ignore the Renaissance era, which some would say was the golden age of choral music. I personally think the genre probably hit its peak with Dufay's "Missa L'homme Arme". The Oxford Camerata have made a good recording of it. The Hilliard's version should be avoided due to their incompetent use of musica ficta.

Dufay is the father of the Renaissance mass. Later composers may have been more complex or technical, but the sheer inventiveness and effectiveness of that mass by Dufay is difficult to rival. I also like how the music in the credo enlivens the words, where other composers tended to pay less or no attention to the text.






Other great Renaissance composers were Ockeghem, Obrecht, Josquin, Gombert, Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria.

I'd say Ockeghem's best masses are the Mi-Mi, De Plus en plus, L'Homme arme, Caput, Prolationum, and Pro defunctis (the Requiem). The Clerks' Group recorded all of his extant masses and are so far better than the alternatives in this repertoire by common consensus.

Rob Wegman says in his biography on Obrecht that the height of Obrecht's mature style was reached in the two masses "Rose playsante" and "Fortuna desperata". There's a fine recording of both available via the publisher's website, here. Obrecht's last mass, "Maria zart" is also among the great Renaissance masses.

I think for Josquin you can't do much better right now than get the motets album by Orlando Consort. There's also an album by Clerks' Group with several other motets but I haven't listened to it yet (The Essential Josquin). I'm not too familiar with different recordings on the masses, and I'm doubtful anything very preferable exists. The Tallis Scholars sing too many accidentals except in cadences, where they sing too few. And issues with musica ficta are probably common with other groups as well who do this repertoire. There's of course some controversy on when to sing accidentals, but I think it's safe to say that groups back in the Renaissance didn't sing a lot of unmarked accidentals merely due to harmonic considerations, because actually they weren't singing or practicising from full scores. And anyway, compare the Oxford Camerata version of Dufay's credo with The Hilliard's version and you'll see the former's approach simply sounds a lot better.

For Gombert there's a competent disc of motets, by Henry's Eight that I can recommend, this one. I think Gombert was better in his motets than his masses. Some say the same of Josquin.

Palestrina starts to be late enough that the issue of musica ficta isn't as central to rendering his music as with the earlier composers. Same for Lassus and Victoria. I don't have any strong preferences here and am just starting to familiarise myself with their works, but would recommend the Westminster Cathedral Choir's recording of Victoria's "Missa pro defunctis (1605)". "Libera me" (from the Requiem) is a powerful and unique piece, one of my top favorite choral pieces.


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## DaDirkNL (Aug 26, 2013)

Off the top of my head:
Bach's Matthaus Passion. The recording I prefer is Karl Richter with the Münchener Bach Orchestra.
Bach's Mass in B Minor. My recommendation for recording is Philippe Herreweghe with the Colegium Vocale.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

A massive oversight in my earlier post:

Bartok ~ Cantata Profana, 'the white stag.'


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## Vinyl (Jan 22, 2014)

Bach: Magnificat. Monteverdi, English Baroque Soloists, Gardiner.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I wholeheartedly agree with Chordalrock's excellent list of Renaissance pieces. I will have to check out Obrecht, myself!

As for the OP, if you enjoy baroque choral works, I would suggest checking out the likes of _Te Deum_ by Charpentier, _Gloria_ by Vivaldi or _Stabat Mater_ by Pergolesi.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I think it's a shame how badly the early Renaissance composers are represented in recordings. There are few recordings and even fewer good ones. For example, I think Dufay's "Missa Ave regina caelorum" is probably a wonderful mass but the recording I have has these odd harmonies all over the place due to too many extra accidentals added by the performers. But if you can read music well and play the piano it's probably a mass worth getting to know via a score (accidentals by editors are added above the notes and can easily be ignored when they're there clearly for harmonic instead of melodic reasons or aren't part of cadences).


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

Handel's English anthems. The Chandos anthems - there's a complete set by Harry Christophers & the 16 which the critics weren't unanimous about but I like it well enough.
And the coronation anthems (is there a finer more dramatic opening to work that that of Zadok the Priest?). Try Marriner but there are umpteen out there.

I'll second the Mendelssohn. There's a cheapo boxed set by Brilliant with all his choral/orchestral & choral/a cappella works: some of these are very dramatic and very rarely performed.

My own personal favourite: Johann Ernst Bach (a nephew & pupil of JSB). There's little of what he wrote recorded - just buy anything (of the motets & cantatas). They're all good.

Kraus's funeral cantata. Kraus felt the assassination of his (Swedish) King deeply and this music is tragic & powerful.

I also second Haydn's choral music (don't forget the Stabat Mater). Again, Brilliant have done a set but beware: they're not, as stated, the 'complete masses' but they do contain some very rare stuff instead. But there are plenty of recordings of the masses. If you want the Nelson mass (great in itself), get the Pinnock version because it comes with an absolutely magnificently dramatic Te Deum (Hob XXIIIc 2 - Te Deum C Maj). Don't forget the other Haydn, Michael, whose choral writing is also fine.

You could try, for something a little different, the unaccompanied double choir music of Bortnyansky. The Galant style meets the Russian Orthodox Church. There are virtually no alternative recordings and what there is is a bit pricy but it's hypnotic stuff.

For Mozart, I have the complete edition box with all the sacred music besides the masses - litanies & vespers etc. Stirring music.

Cherubini masses?

Another oddity is a requiem mass by the master of the operetta: von Suppe. But I'd better listen to it again before I recommend it because I can't remember a thing about it.


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## SteveSherman (Jan 9, 2014)

LouisMasterMusic said:


> 1) Handel Messiah with Heather Harper, Helen Watts, John Wakefield and John Shirley-Quirk. The London Symphony Chorus and Orchestra is conducted by Sir Colin Davis.


Glad to hear that's still available. I remember when it first came out. It was one of three more-or-less simultaneous appearances (don't remember the other two) that attempted to get away from interpreting Handel as a kind of inferior Bach. It was lighter in texture, less monumental and featured soloists who came from the English rather than the German choral tradition. Harper and Shirley-Quirk especially were revelations. It might also have been the first time I ever heard the Pifa conducted in four. Thus, in addition to being a wonderful performance in its own right, it had a powerful influence on subsequent performing practice.

I tend to decide which works are my favorites by how much I love to sing them, but there are a few recordings that have stayed with me over the years. I'm probably not familiar with recordings less than 15 years old, so bear that in mind.

I love Klemperer's recording of the Brahms Requiem (with IIRC de los Angeles and Fischer-Dieskau), though this is a conductor with whom I am rarely on the same wavelength.

I'll second the recommendation of Britten's recording of his War Requiem, especially for the soloists.

I love John Eliot Gardiner's Bach, but I also would need at least five recordings of the B minor Mass. Is Karl Forster's old recording of the St John Passion still available? For me Fischer-Dieskau's Jesus is incomparable.

If I could only have one Verdi Reqiuem it would be Giulini's, but one would not be enough. I would normally insist on soloists who are firmly embedded in the Italian opera tradition, but Giulini's (with Schwarzkopf, Ludwig, Gedda and Ghiaurov) is simply incandescent.

If you enjoy hearing Renaissance music as much as I enjoy singing it, perhaps Byrd and Palestrina are good starting points, but I have no idea which performances to recomment. Try sampling on YouTube.

Do you know to which school of Beethoven you adhere? Apollonian or Dionysiac? Furtwängler or Toscanini? Let that determine which Missa Solemnis you choose, but definitely choose it, ideally more than once.

I could go on, but if you listen to all the good advice you'll get on this thread, you'll need Bill Gates to subsidize your recorded library.


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## Lyman (Feb 2, 2014)

Thanks to LouisMasterMusic and everyone who contributed to this cool list! There are lots of interesting things here that are new to me.

I'm not sure Janáček's Glagolitic Mass was on the list, so I'll offer it. I bought a Chandos box set with the Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra & Choir performing it and Kodály's Psalmus Hungaricus on a CD. Both are very nice.


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## Orange Soda King (Sep 14, 2010)

You should explore the choral music of Mendelssohn and Brahms. From large scale to small scale works, they are consistently well-crafted and incredibly beautiful. Here's one I really like:






Which actually comes from his large oratorio "Elijah"





With Brahms, you could start with his German Requiem and Begräbnisgesang.


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I've learned more about musica ficta and I'll have to revise some of my statements. Dufay stands out as a particularly problematic case because he used mixed key signatures. Some groups dilute and modernise his music by removing the effects of the mixed key signatures by adding accidentals where they don't belong. This makes the music sound more "acceptable" to modern ears. 

The Binchois Consort and The Huelgas Ensemble do get this stuff right. The Hilliard Ensemble and The Oxford Camerata are a mixed bag. 

I've started to like The Hilliard Ensemble's recording of Dufay's Missa L'homme arme, and would definitely recommend it as an alternative rendering. Their rendering of the last third of the credo is certainly superior to the Oxford Camerata's in terms of polyphonic clarity and musica ficta. Neither is an ideal performance and while waiting for one it's nice to have both.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

Do you mind if it's a capella? Or religious? Because my favorite choral work is Rachmaninov's All Night Vigil (also called Vespers). Not only do I consider it to be one of the greatest choral works ever written, I see it as Rachmaninov's greatest, and most underrated, masterpiece. The recording I have is by the Robert Shaw Festival Singers, but there are many versions on youtube that I would also recommend.

Here are a few of my favorite segments
1. O Come Let us Worship




6. Hail Mary




***7. Hexapsalmos***




***8. Praise the Name of the Lord***




***15. To thee, Victorious Leader***


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I've just acquainted myself with Josquin's:

Missa Hercules dux ferrariae

Amazing. This became straight away one of my favorite works of choral music.

I have the recording by the Hilliard Ensemble and can recommend it.


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## hocket (Feb 21, 2010)

Chordalrock said:


> I've just acquainted myself with Josquin's:
> 
> Missa Hercules dux ferrariae
> 
> ...


That's a great recording. There is now an arguably even better version of it by De Labyrintho.


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