# A thread about ghosts



## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Do you believe in ghosts or poltergeists, or do you know anybody who does? Tell us some real-life ghost stories--such as, for example, your parents or grandparents might have told you--even if you are personally sceptical. The thread is also open to any discussion about ghosts--films, novels or short stories you would recommend, and traditional beliefs about ghosts in your home country. Also classical music (songs or opera) featuring ghosts, and composers or musicians who believed in ghosts.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't believe in ghost. Always wanted to read Turn of the Screw but haven't yet. Monkey's Paw was excellent. 

Black Sabbath had a great old granny ghost. I doubt many know this film, but it was very scarey for its time.

I remember ghost stories at camp as a child, the fear was very enjoyable. All the camp counselors were hell bend on convincing us the place was haunted, showing us old war bunkers, at one point I think they added something to the campfire to make it grow and turn a blue color after summoning a spirit and so on and so forth. What great fun.

Also remember loving a series of children's books in elementary, 'Scary Stories to tell in the dark', worth checking out for sure.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I do not believe in ghosts, and I don't know that any of my friends or family do (some may but I don't know about it). Apparently roughly one third to one half of all people in the US do believe or at least tell pollsters that they believe (see some poll results below from the past 10 years). Of course it's not clear what believers mean by "ghost". 

CBS - 48%
Gallop - 37%
Associated Press and Ipsos - 34%
Harris - 51%


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

mmsbls said:


> I do not believe in ghosts, and I don't know that any of my friends or family do (some may but I don't know about it). Apparently roughly one third to one half of all people in the US do believe or at least tell pollsters that they believe (see some poll results below from the past 10 years). Of course it's not clear what believers mean by "ghost".
> 
> CBS - 48%
> Gallop - 37%
> ...


I don't believe in ghosts myself, and, more's the pity, I've never been told any ghost stories by my relatives. I got the idea for this thread when talking with an electrical engineer (a Greek Cypriot, as it happens, although I have no reason to think that Greek Cypriots are more prone to believe in ghosts than anybody else). He reckons that some of the mysterious goings-on in the John Radcliffe Hospital are due to part of it having been built on top of a morgue.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I don't find ghosts from a living perspective particularly compelling, though I like the idea of remaining on Earth but being free of physical constrictions after death. Ideally the ghost world would just be another layer of our own, that way I can eat all the doughnuts I want with no repercussions.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm not convinced of ghosts per se, but in downtown Nashville, they have a haunted buildings tour featuring some interesting stories. The building I work in is supposed to have a ghost - at least the night cleaning crew thinks something's up, because they won't go in the basement after dark. 

West of here in Adams, there is a story of the Bell Witch, who haunted the Bell family by cursing and by assulting the family's daughter in ways like pinching. Andrew Jackson came to see it and was turned away by something unnatural. When Old Man Bell died, she disappeared. But her cave is still a tourist attraction.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Ghosts do not exist.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The ghost of Wagner visited me and we made love.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I only believe in the Holy Ghost.

Amen †


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Philip said:


> I only believe in the Holy Ghost.
> 
> Amen †


And not the Son or the Holy Father?

Enjoy hell.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

Couchie said:


> The ghost of Wagner visited me and we made love.


Too graphical 

If i were a ghost, i wouldn't scare people. I'd live in the Caribean islands, travelling around the world and prefer living wherever i'd like. Without having to pay anything, i'd go everywhere. I don't understand why ghosts have to "live their life" in attics, closets, under the bed and other dark zones.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I watched a documentary about a college student getting haunted by a ghost. It was very serious what was happening to him, and this spirit was affecting people around him too. However, I think the student was mistaken. I too don't believe in ghosts, but I believe in far worse. I believe what he was encountering was a demon, especially when the student said he started contemplating suicide because of this spirit. I would definitely prefer to encounter a ghost, at least they wouldn't have had_ all_ of Time to perfect their malice...


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I believe what he was encountering was a representation of his unconscious.


Huilunsoittaja said:


> I believe what he was encountering was a demon, especially when the student said he started contemplating suicide because of this spirit.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> I believe what he was encountering was a representation of his unconscious.


That's always possible... except for the other point that other people were affected (though not as severely) at the same time.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> That's always possible... except for the other point that other people were affected (though not as severely) at the same time.


Sounds like mass hysteria to me.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

When you see someone else smile, the same activity occurs in your own brain and you feel happier.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

emiellucifuge said:


> When you see someone else smile, the same activity occurs in your own brain and you feel happier.


Sometimes maybe, if it's in the morning and someone smiles at me I'm like, "Oh bugger off." I hate mornings and people who are happy in the morning annoy me.

^ I think I used "morning" too many times in two sentences...


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

MaestroViolinist said:


> Sometimes maybe, if it's in the morning and someone smiles at me I'm like, "Oh bugger off." I hate mornings and people who are happy in the morning annoy me.
> 
> ^ I think I used "morning" too many times in two sentences...


Thats right, there is an element of being open to the experience from your own self. I suspect the demon experience was just this.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I watched a documentary about a college student getting haunted by a ghost. It was very serious what was happening to him, and this spirit was affecting people around him too. However, I think the student was mistaken. I too don't believe in ghosts, but I believe in far worse. I believe what he was encountering was a demon, especially when the student said he started contemplating suicide because of this spirit. I would definitely prefer to encounter a ghost, at least they wouldn't have had_ all_ of Time to perfect their malice...


Sounds more like some mental health disorder


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> Sounds more like some mental health disorder


You all are so biased towards empirical observation. 

His father met the spirit too, who came to his dorm to guard for the night at one point.

Then who isn't mad in some way?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Obviously runs in the family


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> Obviously runs in the family


Have you ever had a hallucination of a demon, like Ivan Karamazov?


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I once woke up to find a man walk into my room. Then, in walked a little child. He then took out a blade and chopped the little child's head off. 

True story.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> I once woke up to find a man walk into my room. Then, in walked a little child. He then took out a blade and chopped the little child's head off.


And that's were babies come from.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

I don't believe that all the supernatural things which happen can be so easily written off into psychology. There is a fair amount of what is easily identified as pure superstition or hallucination on some peoples part, but there also it seems to me are plenty that can't. However I don't think that there is an essential difference between the two. I also believe that these things have their roots in demons, and in the one case they just keep more hidden, that is all.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Ramako said:


> II also believe that these things have their roots in demons, and in the one case they just keep more hidden, that is all.


And why do you think that?


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

emiellucifuge said:


> And why do you think that?


Well in the one case they just appear to the one person, in the other they appear to many.

If you are asking why I think these these things have their roots in demons, then as I said I find it difficult to entirely write off these things. Taking that, what does this imply? The explanations for 'ghostiness', or indeed alien visitations etc. which I put in much the same category, can contradict each other. So I assume that there is some other explanation common to them. From my religious position the answer is therefore demons - which makes sense to me. From what little I know, it seems that most of the 'ghost' hauntings seem to lead to some kind of bad end. Whether or not it is in their mind, or an 'apparition', doesn't make much difference therefore, since the demon is behind it either way, and causes damage either way.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Well back onto the subject of hallucinations. I've never had them. A GREAT deal of stress or lack of sleep can make anyone have them though. One type that I've had whole great deal of is Hypnagogic visions, these are the half awake, half asleep images in your head as you are falling asleep. Some of these hypa-visions litterally scared the crap out of me, because they just appeared all of a sudden showed up with great vividness and severity of content. I saw a guy blow his head off as a teen, not in real life but in a hypnagogic vision, I had difficulty falling asleep that night for sure! Jung probably would have said it is my Shadow trying to tell me something, or someother such convoluted non-sense


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Clovis said:


> Well back onto the subject of hallucinations. I've never had them. A GREAT deal of stress or lack of sleep can make anyone have them though. One type that I've had whole great deal of is Hypnagogic visions, these are the half awake, half asleep images in your head as you are falling asleep. Some of these hypa-visions litterally scared the crap out of me, because they just appeared all of a sudden showed up with great vividness and severity of content. I saw a guy blow his head off as a teen, not in real life but in a hypnagogic vision, I had difficulty falling asleep that night for sure! Jung probably would have said it is my Shadow trying to tell me something, or someother such convoluted non-sense


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I once watched a documentary about Sleep paralysis and hypnagogic visions. It scared the living **** out of me.
But didn't Tartini get the inspiration to one of his violin works from a Sleep paralysis&hypnagogic visions. Where he saw the devil sitting on top of him and then the devil started to play the violin and tartini said that it was the best playing he had heard.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> When you see someone else smile, the same activity occurs in your own brain and you feel happier.


Strange - I never once felt that emotion come over me when it was my ex-line manager doing the smiling...


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Jesus mentions ghosts:
Luke 24:39b Ghosts don’t have flesh and bones, but you can see that I do.

In 1 Samuel 28, King Saul is able to speak to the ghost of Samuel through a medium.

When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, their very first thought was that it was a ghost.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Lunasong said:


> In 1 Samuel 28, King Saul is able to speak to the ghost of Samuel through a medium.


That example in particular is very interesting. It also makes witchcraft really serious business, as it was in that story. Saul is punished with death for calling up Samuel with the medium.

I can go along and say a lot more about what it means, but I won't.

By the way, even though I don't believe in ghosts, I have written a short story about one.  After all, they're a fascinating subject nonetheless.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I once played a Japanise video game where you had to take photos of the ghosts, by taking photos you killed them etc...
Its pretty scary on middle of the night.
The name of the game was project zero if i remember it right.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

jani said:


> I once played a Japanise video game where you had to take photos of the ghosts, by taking photos you killed them etc...
> Its pretty scary on middle of the night.
> The name of the game was project zero if i remember it right.


I think you mean Fatal Frame.


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## Iforgotmypassword (May 16, 2011)

I remain open to the possibility of their existence. What is a ghost? How do we know that they don't exist in an alternate dimension? We don't, therefore if presented with solid evidence I would certainly be inclined to believe it. However as of yet I have seen no such evidence for myself.


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## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> That example in particular is very interesting. It also makes witchcraft really serious business, as it was in that story. Saul is punished with death for calling up Samuel with the medium.
> 
> I can go along and say a lot more about what it means, but I won't.
> 
> By the way, even though I don't believe in ghosts, I have written a short story about one.  After all, they're a fascinating subject nonetheless.


How can you NOT believe in ghosts after being so strictly forbidden by the Bible not to mess with them? That's proof enough for me


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Ramako said:


> Well in the one case they just appear to the one person, in the other they appear to many.
> 
> If you are asking why I think these these things have their roots in demons, then as I said I find it difficult to entirely write off these things. Taking that, what does this imply? The explanations for 'ghostiness', or indeed alien visitations etc. which I put in much the same category, can contradict each other. So I assume that there is some other explanation common to them. From my religious position the answer is therefore demons - which makes sense to me. From what little I know, it seems that most of the 'ghost' hauntings seem to lead to some kind of bad end. Whether or not it is in their mind, or an 'apparition', doesn't make much difference therefore, since the demon is behind it either way, and causes damage either way.


You can believe in demons if you want, I suppose. I just hope you know what you're essentially saying is

"I don't believe in ghosts, therefore demons" Demons and ghosts have equal plausibility, and for you to elevate one over the other is a bit odd to me.

Personally, I don't believe in ghosts or demons. Instead, I know that when people experience these things that what they are really experiencing is the outcome of the Great Lab Disaster of 1952, and are being attacked by the lunatic invisible mutant mini-pigs that they practiced brain surgery and chemical/biological alteration on. One day, the pigs turned invisible, and upon realising this, they broke free, murdering all the scientists in cruel ways before destroying the lab and leaving to haunt people forever.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> That example in particular is very interesting. It also makes witchcraft really serious business, as it was in that story. Saul is punished with death for calling up Samuel with the medium.
> 
> I can go along and say a lot more about what it means, but I won't.
> 
> By the way, even though I don't believe in ghosts, I have written a short story about one.  After all, they're a fascinating subject nonetheless.


You know quite a good deal about the bible I suppose, and you also seem a bit fatalistic.

Whatever you do, stay far away from psalm 88, far far away!


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Clovis said:


> You know quite a good deal about the bible I suppose, and you also seem a bit fatalistic.
> 
> Whatever you do, stay far away from psalm 88, far far away!


I don't know bible at all, so could you tell me the reason for that.
(Of course i know the story of Jesus etc... its common knowledge etc...)


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

jani said:


> I don't know bible at all, so could you tell me the reason for that.
> (Of course i know the story of Jesus etc... its common knowledge etc...)


See this post

http://www.talkclassical.com/21498-thread-about-ghosts.html#post359584


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

jani said:


> I don't know bible at all, so could you tell me the reason for that.
> (Of course i know the story of Jesus etc... its common knowledge etc...)


Psalm 88[a]
A song. A psalm of the Sons of Korah. For the director of music. According to mahalath leannoth.* A maskil[c] of Heman the Ezrahite.

1 Lord, you are the God who saves me;
day and night I cry out to you.
2 May my prayer come before you;
turn your ear to my cry.

3 I am overwhelmed with troubles
and my life draws near to death.
4 I am counted among those who go down to the pit;
I am like one without strength.
5 I am set apart with the dead,
like the slain who lie in the grave,
whom you remember no more,
who are cut off from your care.

6 You have put me in the lowest pit,
in the darkest depths.
7 Your wrath lies heavily on me;
you have overwhelmed me with all your waves.[d]
8 You have taken from me my closest friends
and have made me repulsive to them.
I am confined and cannot escape;
9 my eyes are dim with grief.

I call to you, Lord, every day;
I spread out my hands to you.
10 Do you show your wonders to the dead?
Do their spirits rise up and praise you?
11 Is your love declared in the grave,
your faithfulness in Destruction[e]?
12 Are your wonders known in the place of darkness,
or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

13 But I cry to you for help, Lord;
in the morning my prayer comes before you.
14 Why, Lord, do you reject me
and hide your face from me?

15 From my youth I have suffered and been close to death;
I have borne your terrors and am in despair.
16 Your wrath has swept over me;
your terrors have destroyed me.
17 All day long they surround me like a flood;
they have completely engulfed me.
18 You have taken from me friend and neighbor-
darkness is my closest friend.

It is easily the bleakest psalm written, most all psalms generally have far more 'hope toward' or 'affirmation with' God, this poor dude only his very little of either. It also kind of sums up all the great points of the bible i. e. 'the flood', 'egypt', and 'babylon'.*


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

For skeptics


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> You can believe in demons if you want, I suppose. I just hope you know what you're essentially saying is
> 
> "I don't believe in ghosts, therefore demons" Demons and ghosts have equal plausibility, and for you to elevate one over the other is a bit odd to me.
> 
> Personally, I don't believe in ghosts or demons. Instead, I know that when people experience these things that what they are really experiencing is the outcome of the Great Lab Disaster of 1952, and are being attacked by the lunatic invisible mutant mini-pigs that they practiced brain surgery and chemical/biological alteration on. One day, the pigs turned invisible, and upon realising this, they broke free, murdering all the scientists in cruel ways before destroying the lab and leaving to haunt people forever.


I think what I was saying was not what you say but rather "I believe in ghosts, just I don't believe that ghosts are ghosts." i.e. I believe that what people are experiencing is some kind of supernatural phenomena - just not what they think it is.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)




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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Ramako said:


> I think what I was saying was not what you say but rather "I believe in ghosts, just I don't believe that ghosts are ghosts." i.e. I believe that what people are experiencing is some kind of supernatural phenomena - just not what they think it is.


I was going to edit my post yesterday to say that I did understand that this is what you were saying. I went back and read your posts again and noticed that you were asserting that ghosts are a phenomenon created by demons, or something like that. Either way, I still cling firm to my belief that ghosts aren't experienced, just mistaken for lab pigs.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Cnote11 said:


> I think you mean Fatal Frame.


Fatal Frame is the US name, in the UK and Europe it's called Project Zero.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

The really vocal skeptics always come off like smarter-than-thou bratty kids who want to spoil the mystery of mythology and legend, that's why they tend to make people act defensive. We _get_ that ghosts aren't real, just let the kids have some fun.

As time passes I'm beginning to see value in outdated superstitions. They're like little anchors to an older and "purer" way of thinking. I mean jesus, let's phase out the myth of ghosts and tell stories on halloween about how your iphone glitched/froze. Spooooky! bah.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

I have never seen any ghost so I don't believe in them. Actually, even if I had seen or felt ghosts I wouldn't believe in them because I know how feeble and easy to influence our perceptions are.

If you want to be scared you don't need supernatural, mankind is full of monstruous scary things


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Iforgotmypassword said:


> I remain open to the possibility of their existence. What is a ghost? How do we know that they don't exist in an alternate dimension? We don't, therefore if presented with solid evidence I would certainly be inclined to believe it. However as of yet I have seen no such evidence for myself.


This is very sound thinking. However, when you dig a little further... isn't there a possibility of the existence of an infinite number of different things? Is there really a need to enumerate things which may or may not exist?


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Philip said:


> This is very sound thinking. However, when you really think about it -- isn't there a possibility of the existence of an infinite number of different things? Is there really a need to name things which may or may not exist?


Pretty much all of modern physics does exactly that, so why not?


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Clovis said:


> Pretty much all of modern physics does exactly that, so why not?


Yes... if you take my last sentence out of context, that's how it sounds... i'll admit. But my argument was based on logic more than anything.

Physics is rigorous, or at least it tries to be. "Do ghosts exists?", "does the spaghetti monster exist?", etc. are metaphysical questions; and where metaphysics stops, science starts, ie. rigorously developed falsifiable hypotheses.

Postulating extra dimensions because your dead dog spoke to you in your sleep, is not the same as postulating extra spatial dimensions as part of a generalized mathematical framework motivated by observed natural phenomena.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Politicians take things out of context all the time. I always wanted to be pampered by lobbyists when I grew up...

You're getting off into visions as opposed to simply ghosts? Let us leave it at ghosts, that's where it becomes silly by today's standards, the idea that if souls existed beyond life, they'd bother hanging around this dump, as if there were no revelationary truths to be had, that's depressing... But as far as the crazy things people seem to believe, the belief in ghosts hasn't caused the world near as many repercussion as other insanities.


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Clovis said:


> the idea that if souls existed beyond life, they'd bother hanging around this dump


Who's to say that if there's some sort of realm beyond empirical observation, it's not even worse or more confusing?

Plus if something like souls existed, the world would only be a "dump" to cynical strung out humans who are still alive and therefore subjected to diseases and mortality and stressful social arbitrations and etc. etc. The grass is always greener.



> the belief in ghosts hasn't caused the world near as many repercussion as other insanities.


Even religion is pretty harmless in itself, some ancient violent dogma nobody cares about anymore notwithstanding. It's when it gets mixed into politics and interpreted by ******** things go wrong. Maybe humans have the natural tendency to screw up each other's lives and kill with or without illogical beliefs.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

regressivetransphobe said:


> Maybe humans have the natural tendency to screw up each other's lives and kill with or without illogical beliefs.


That's a little cynical also, don't you think; Not that I'm not pessimistic enough to believe it. What nature would that be exactly? The same that dominates what your spiel exhibits, and mine alike for that matter?


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

You said the grass is always greener.

^ I wish I could see that even just a little...

*I didn't and don't mean to seam so so so morose. Forgive me.*


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Religion is pretty harmless, except the bit that discourages critical thinking and the authoritarian dogma part that IS the religion. Sure, divorce everything most religions are from the religion and they suddenly become "harmless". Hitler was pretty harmless too, aside from that killing of minorities and the war and what not. But you know, aside from that!


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

I just read the post-war novel The Clown, it shines a great deal of light on such dogmas. 

No hispanic pope yet?; I'm suspicious, it would be a brilliant political strategy, yuck, yuck! Just the thought of it alone, gag me with a spoon!

Good point on dictators and their marching hordes. In war it seems, the reasonings and patriotics behind them are moot to the warrior, all the integrities and facets of diligences involved in being a warrior seem to take center stage, a most blind and stolid and deadly force.

This thread is becoming more and more off topic, I'm begining to get very scared of ghost!


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't believe in anything, but as long as I don't understand a thing is this life and existence, I am open to possibilities...


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

^took the words out of my mouth

I'm smart enough to know I know nothing what-so-ever.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Clovis said:


> ^took the words out of my mouth
> 
> I'm smart enough to know I know nothing what-so-ever.


I'm quite positive you know _something_, else you wouldn't be able to type or write in English. To say that one doesn't understand anything in life is a pile of nonsense, in my opinion. The last two posts mean absolutely nothing to me because of it.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

I think he was just regurgitating Socrates' argument. Philosophy 101.


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Philip said:


> I think he was just regurgitating Socrates' argument. Philosophy 101.


Spock 'Interesting.' Spock


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## Wandering (Feb 27, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> I'm quite positive you know _something_, else you wouldn't be able to type or write in English. To say that one doesn't understand anything in life is a pile of nonsense, in my opinion. The last two posts mean absolutely nothing to me because of it.


It isn't so much that you know nothing, but that with consideration, humility, and age, it comes easier and easier to believe in far far less of all that you see and hear.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

I understood what you were getting at; I merely disapprove of the way it was stated. 

After all, I have nothing original to contribute and if I feel the urge to post I have to resort to being rather trivial.


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## georgedelorean (Aug 18, 2017)

I've had too many experiences not to.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm puzzled at someone who believes in God and the afterlife but scoffs at the idea of ghosts.

That said, I can accept the idea of ghosts; but have a problem with ghost clothes. Descriptions of ghosts often include details of their clothing-- but since I've heard no argument that clothes have souls, shouldn't ghosts be naked? But then would a naked ghost be as frightening?

Despite my reservations I don't preclude the possibility of ghosts-- my mother was from a culture that accepted their reality-- however I don't worry about it one way or the other. As stated earlier, live human beings are much more threatening.


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