# Most skilled melodists



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Which composers do you think are very skilled at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Chopin, too.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes Chopin and Puccini and Berlioz too I think.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

So many of them. Great thread. Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Schubert, Handel, Grieg, J. Strauss II, Rachmaninov, Corelli, Sibelius, Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, and Vivaldi for me. Though there are many more I left off my list that deserve to be mentioned as well.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

The *RUSSIANS*.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

This could easily be the most accessible Composers for newcomers as well. Melody is something that brings your attention on the first listen. Some of the other great Composers take more listens to fully enjoy.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

What composers have the most skill at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.

Elliott Carter?! Schoenberg??!! Schoenberg!!!???

Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


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## Very Senior Member (Jul 16, 2009)

Mozart, Shubert, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Delius - are the ones I like the most.

The word "skilled" in the thread title might perhaps be better if it said "gifted", as the ability to create good melody is not so much a skill, in the sense that it can be learned or acquired, but it's more of a gift possessed in varying degrees. The successful weaving together of different melodies, and carrying variations on those melodies, is a skill.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


To be fair I've never heard a postman humming Mozart either, I don't think they're a particularly accurate barometer for this sort of thing.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> What composers have the most skill at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.
> 
> Elliott Carter?! Schoenberg??!! Schoenberg!!!???
> 
> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


I never said the melodies that these composers wrote were singable. Schoenberg and Carter both wrote music that's as very melodic. Schoenberg even put Hauptstimme and Nebenstimme markings over the primary and secondary melodies in his compositions and his dodecaphonic technique is very melody-based. If you've ever studied Elliott Carter's music or seen any of his manuscripts you would have noticed that in his compositions he would have one melody that plays throughout the entire piece based on the chords and harmonies that he would highlight. The melody itself is based on the chords he chooses for the composition just like a conventionally tonal piece of music written one or two hundred years earlier.

I hum Schoenberg every now and then!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Btw if you listen to too much of these Composers, you might be in a need for some atonal music.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> The *RUSSIANS*.


Most Russian composers I have heard have indeed written very melodic music.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I would say Mozart and Schubert and maybe J Strauss 2. If M had written only operas I would still say Mozart. 

Not to deny of course that many other composers have skill at writing melodies.

I am sure there have been many potentially great composers who just could not write a superb unique melody. Some of the recommendations I have had on this board to listen to various obscure composers - the music just seemed to lack a great melelody that makes you want to listen again - even though structurally seemed fine enough.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Most Russian composers I have heard have indeed written very melodic music.


I wouldn't say Stravinsky is the best at melody compared to his rhythms. (The Rite, Ebony Concerto, etc.)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Toddlertoddy said:


> I wouldn't say Stravinsky is the best at melody compared to his rhythms. (The Rite, Ebony Concerto, etc.)


I *most* I have heard have indeed written very melodic music. Stravinsky's rhythms are astounding though!


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2012)

I want to live in a land where this is the national anthem:






What a great melody!

Edit: the accompanying video is a bit disturbing though.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I think I will also mention Erik Satie.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

neoshredder said:


> So many of them. Great thread. Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Schubert, Handel, Grieg, J. Strauss II, Rachmaninov, Corelli, Sibelius, Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, and Vivaldi for me. Though there are many more I left off my list that deserve to be mentioned as well.


They can't _all _have the "_most _skill at writing _very _melodic music", as the OP asked (my emphasis). So which of these do you think has the most skill?


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## Krisena (Jul 21, 2012)

Rachmaninoff.

Ravel.

Grieg.

Thread over.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> They can't _all _have the "_most _skill at writing _very _melodic music", as the OP asked (my emphasis). So which of these do you think has the most skill?


Ah ha, but I _edited_ the OP.


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> What composers have the most skill at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Pagahuinini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.
> 
> Elliott Carter?! Schoenberg??!! Schoenberg!!!???
> 
> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


I can hum his harmonics. :tiphat:


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Lisztian said:


> Chopin, too.


Some examples of great melodies by Chopin:
Etude op 25/5: the middle section (Piu lento)
Cello sonata, scherzo, the middle section has a wonderful melody, played (of course) by the cello
And of course, Etude op 10/3, so pure and simple. Chopin himself was also very pleased with it.


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Arsakes said:


> The *RUSSIANS*.


I completely agree. But I would also add Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks, COAG! This thread reminded me of one of my favorite discussions here in TC.

http://www.talkclassical.com/5051-question-melodists-schubert-really.html


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I hum Schoenberg every now and then!


audio or it didn't happen

anyway, i'd say Alec Wilder is one of the best i know. 
I want to quote a passage from a James Maher's writing:
"the melody was the key, even in the "outer movements" of his chamber music... Alec was a far superior melodist to most 20th century composers, for whom "melody" was a succession of notes, which were then manipulated in the cleverest possible manner. Despite the fact that many composers wrote "lieder", few of them revealed a deeply rooted sense of song in their
melodies. On the other hand, Alec could not help himself: melodies flowed from his pen to paper as automatically as breathing. The song was his genius"


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

Adding to the chopin melodies Fantasie-Impromptu middle part

And I'd also add brahms to the list...


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## MaestroViolinist (May 22, 2012)

Avengeil said:


> Adding to the chopin melodies Fantasie-Impromptu middle part
> 
> And I'd also add brahms to the list...


Welcome to Talk Classical Avengeil! Yes, Brahms is also very good.


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

For me personally it would be Schubert, Vivaldi, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Chopin.

I'd also add Brahms but I think his melodies and not so memorable as the others I've mentioned.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody?


I don't know if you've heard John Ronsheim's rambling lectures on 20th Century music, but he hummed along with the recordings, and this kind of music makes for some memorable humming. Especially fun was his singing along with the first movement of Schoenberg's 5 Pieces for Orchestra. Of course, anyone can hum Farben - "humm, humm, hummm." 

http://www.ronsheim.org/About.html


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

Chopin, Dvorak, Schubert, Beethoven.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

I know that the term " Gift for pure melody" Isn't used with Beethoven very often but he wrote lots of great and immortal melodies
like
Ode to joy 



This melody from his 7th symphony


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Schumann. Surprised he hasn't been mentioned yet.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

Tchaikovsky - Borodin - Rimsky Korsakoff - Dvorak - Goldmark - Faure - Paganini - Kreisler - Sarasate.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I never said the melodies that these composers wrote were singable. Schoenberg and Carter both wrote music that's as very melodic. Schoenberg even put Hauptstimme and Nebenstimme markings over the primary and secondary melodies in his compositions and his dodecaphonic technique is very melody-based. If you've ever studied Elliott Carter's music or seen any of his manuscripts you would have noticed that in his compositions he would have one melody that plays throughout the entire piece based on the chords and harmonies that he would highlight. The melody itself is based on the chords he chooses for the composition just like a conventionally tonal piece of music written one or two hundred years earlier.
> 
> I hum Schoenberg every now and then!


You are just trying to blind me with science !


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

What about the great arching melodies of Verdi ?


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Rossini


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> What composers have the most skill at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.
> 
> Elliott Carter?! Schoenberg??!! Schoenberg!!!???
> 
> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


I whistle Schoenberg. Besides, its not whether the composer wrote easily hummed tunes, its whether they wrote great melodies, and Schoenberg wrote gorgeous melodies.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Handel, Mozart, Schubert. Liszt, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

No love for Bizet? He's got Carmen, The Pearl Fishers, L'arlesienne, Jeux d'enfants, the Symphony in C. A brief career, but VERY melodic.

Others whose foremost gifts were melodic would include Gershwin, Tchaikovsky, and Rossini.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Beside those certain Russians,
Dvorak, Handel, Liszt, Schumann and Sibelius.


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

I believe the top 3 are: 

Mozart, Schubert and Tchaikovsky


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I whistle Schoenberg. Besides, its not whether the composer wrote easily hummed tunes, its whether they wrote great melodies, and Schoenberg wrote gorgeous melodies.






Yep... I just won't be able to get that one out of my head. Ranks right up there with:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Uh, Bellini....


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> I whistle Schoenberg. Besides, its not whether the composer wrote easily hummed tunes, its whether they wrote great melodies, and Schoenberg wrote gorgeous melodies.


are you talking of his twelve tone stuff? Examples?


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Yep... I just won't be able to get that one out of my head.


i have to try it under the shower


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## Norse (May 10, 2010)

I think Poulenc was a good melodist.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Yep... Bellini... and Rossini.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Norse said:


> I think Poulenc was a good melodist.


And Respighi for lesser known names.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

norman bates said:


> are you talking of his twelve tone stuff? Examples?


Sometimes I get the beginning melody of his 4th string quartet stuck in my head and start humming it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

No one has mentioned Prokofiev yet, who's melodies are really catchy despite being a bit discordant most of the time.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I whistle Schoenberg. Besides, its not whether the composer wrote easily hummed tunes, its whether they wrote great melodies, and Schoenberg wrote gorgeous melodies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh dear, you're so clever. My head is just spinning.  Plus that's not even that great an example to make your lame joke.

Why don't you make a joke about how easy it is to perform Cage's _4'33''_? That shouldn't be to hard for you.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

norman bates said:


> are you talking of his twelve tone stuff? Examples?


Some of the pieces from _Pierrot Lunaire_, the second String Quartet, _Verklarte Nacht_.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> I whistle Schoenberg. Besides, its not whether the composer wrote easily hummed tunes, its whether they wrote great melodies, and Schoenberg wrote gorgeous melodies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No need to be condescending.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Condescending? Can anyone here possibly be more condescending than Burning Desire? But then I guess its just a case of our coming from different worlds. In her world Mozart is mediocre, Frank Zappa is a genius of classical music, muzak from children's cartoons and video games is also classical music...






and this is a beautiful example of fine architecture:


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I agree with many of the prior posts. There are clearly many wonderful melodists (if that's a word). I would place Mozart, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, and Vivaldi very high on the list. I also love Bizet for his melodies.

Speaking of melodies (but a bit off-topic because it's the opposite), David Dubal in his Essential Canon of Classical Music describes Cherubini as "unfortunately denied the gift of melody." His string quartets and Requiem have always seemed reasonably melodic to me so I wondered why Dubal used that phrase. It seems so sad to think that about a composer.


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## Trout (Apr 11, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Who can actually hum a Schoenberg melody? Certainly the mailmen aren't yet whistling his tunes.


That reminds me of this commercial that was posted here a while back:


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Trout said:


> That reminds me of this commercial that was posted here a while back:


The joke would have been funnier if the music wasn't so beautiful.


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

Dear StlukesguildOhio you made my day with your post and schubert's lieder you propose 

And after listening to it quite a few times I realized that maybe the title would be better as "the most skilled melodists apart from schubert".


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Most of the Russian Composers were great melodists, at least time-to-time melodists.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Which composers do you think are very skilled at writing very melodic music? Methinks Purcell, Elliott Carter, Heinrich Biber, Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Paganini, Farrenc, Gershwin, Schoenberg, Ives and Berg.


Re those I agree that Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Gershwin where 'very skilled' melodists. & notice how they were all great song-writers? To those in this kind of category, I'd add Mozart.

Going against that are composers who mainly thought of music as instrumental and not vocal. Eg. Beethoven, Brahms, Haydn. When I think of these guy's music, even their vocal music, I hear their tunes as not suited to a sung melody, but an instrumental piece. Hence the criticisms of Brahms writing 'against' the piano and violin in his concertos for those instruments.

As for the 'atonalists' and more experimental composers, it's a mixed bag. Some of Schoenberg's pieces do have melody, but its often very fragmented (esp. in his 'atonal' and serial things). It took me ages to hear the melodies in 'Pierrot Lunaire,' but now it seems pretty natural to me in a wierd way. Of course, knowing the text and experiencing it live really helped. So too the crazy dance that is the final movement of his 'Violin Concerto.' Of course, earlier works like 'Transfigured Night' are full of melody.

& re Carter, in an interview he said he doesn't do (or aim to do) tunes (if that equals melody?), but he does kind of do fragments and bits of them. I see his music as a jigsaw puzzle which the listener has to put together. But melodies do course through some of his works, eg. his 'String Quartet #1' - which to me is epic and gives me images of nature - and even his 'Violin Concerto' (again, the final movement) has a airy, dancy vibe, like the Schoenberg but much lighter and carefree. So it depends.

As for Purcell, Farrenc and Biber, I can't really comment, not knowing them well. Berg & Ives I think are like Carter and Schoenberg, sometimes melodic, sometimes more fragmented. As for Paganini, I don't know, I see him as wedded to the violin same as (in some ways) I see Liszt to the piano. So not melodic but violinistic? Dunno.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Nothing like humming Ligeti's Piano Concerto early in the morning. :lol:


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

And btw the Four Seasons is probably the most melodic cd I have for Classical Music.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

You're all fools. Wagner is the best melodist.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> You're all fools. Wagner is the best melodist.


Sorry Couchie. I actually agree with you but he slipped my mind when writing this thread.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Nothing like humming Ligeti's Piano Concerto early in the morning. :lol:


Actually, I hum several parts of the third movement.  You need a good independence of your individual vocal cords to hum those polyrhythms. :tiphat:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I hum the last movement of *Ligeti's* Chamber Concerto a lot.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Ahem: If _@COAG_ is actually looking at _skilled_ melodies, I suggest listening to (or reading) Saint Saens. If his muse was as inspired as his melodies were adroit... .


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'll pick:

Glazunov
Atterberg
Barber
Creston
Alfven
Rebikov
Goldmark
Massenet


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ives as in Three Places in New England.


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## Überstürzter Neumann (Jan 1, 2014)

Apart from those already mentioned, Boccherini comes to mind.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The greatest melodists for me are Mozart and Chopin.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I also like Schubert and Tchaikovsky. Romanticism in general is very melodic imo.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

If people would know Scriabin well enough (beyond a few late piano sonatas and poem of ecstasy), his name would pop up in topics like these as frequently as Chopin and Rachmaninoff. His early-mid period music is full of exquisite melodies.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If that's Scriabin's best vision of ecstasy, I truly shudder at what his hell would be like!


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

For sure you couldn't handle it.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

DeepR said:


> For sure you couldn't handle it.


If he did write music about it, you could be sure I would be listening with all the lights on and other folks in the room!!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm particularly fond of Schubert's way. I can't get the primary melody of his piano sonata no. 16 out of my head. It reminds me of the X-Files theme song. Way cool.


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## mikey (Nov 26, 2013)

Stravinsky.
(You see what I did there? it's called a joke...)
http://www.talkclassical.com/25375-composers-carbon-copies-other-6.html


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

mikey said:


> Stravinsky.
> (You see what I did there? it's called a joke...)
> http://www.talkclassical.com/25375-composers-carbon-copies-other-6.html


Well, if comedian is any sort of personal goal, don't give up your day job, then


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## mikey (Nov 26, 2013)

I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't a funny joke nor was it intended to be particularly funny.

Look, I'm through with this. I fail to see how I was in the wrong - I made a comment, you misinterpreted, it was cleared up, I'm now dropping it. Do the same.


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## stevederekson (Jan 5, 2014)

It's fair to say that Tchaikovsky is the name that sticks out the most.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Wagner, Rossini


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## Rachmanijohn (Jan 2, 2014)

Chopin was a master of melodic invention. Hundreds of hummable tunes abound!


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## eyeman (Oct 3, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> This could easily be the most accessible Composers for newcomers as well. Melody is something that brings your attention on the first listen. Some of the other great Composers take more listens to fully enjoy.


Yep and I find this both interesting and helpful. I was just recently sampling some Schubert and liking his style. And now find his name popping up consistently in this thread...so I think he will be my next!


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## eyeman (Oct 3, 2013)

eyeman said:


> Yep and I find this both interesting and helpful. I was just recently sampling some Schubert and liking his style. And now find his name popping up consistently in this thread...so I think he will be my next!


I'm also glad to see Vivaldi's name mentioned in this thread a lot. It's kinda funny to me that in reading discussions of great composers, few here mention him and some are even critical. Yet in this discussion of melodies he's given great credit.


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## stevederekson (Jan 5, 2014)

Couchie said:


> You're all fools. Wagner is the best melodist.


Really? When I think of Wagner I think of an enormous sound mass where everything comes together ever so beautifully. But I don't really think of melody.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

The 1st mov of Bruckner's 5th is quite melodic.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

While I haven't read every single post, I am surprised that Rachmaninov and Grieg haven't been given their just dues here.


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## Fortinbras Armstrong (Dec 29, 2013)

neoshredder said:


> Btw if you listen to too much of these Composers, you might be in a need for some atonal music.


NO ONE needs atonal music. Some tolerate it, and a few even claim to like it.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Fortinbras Armstrong said:


> NO ONE needs atonal music. Some tolerate it, and a few even claim to like it.


Good point. I've gone a total 180 from a couple years ago.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

neoshredder said:


> Good point. I've gone a total 180 from a couple years ago.


That's not a point, it's a false assertion based on little evidence.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mahlerian said:


> That's not a point, it's a false assertion based on little evidence.


There's no way to prove any form of music is bad. All we got is the ear test. I know right away when that ugly sound comes around, it must be Berg, Schoenberg, or someone like that. For some reason, last.fm plays them occasionally on Robert Schumann radio on last.fm.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The more you expose yourself to it and train your ears and brain, the sounds become surprisingly accommodating. I hated Schuman's 10th symphony after I first listened to it about 2 months ago. Now I find myself playing it a few times a week and I consider it to be a masterpiece.


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## concerto for cowbell (Jan 13, 2014)

Among the early modernists: Messaien (though obviously not always) and Berg.

I went through a period of really pursuing melodic 20th century music. When I checked out Webern I could barely find a single line that I could latch onto. Same goes for Xenakis.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Good point. I've gone a total 180 from a couple years ago.


Oh come on man. You agree with and say "good point" to someone who says NO ONE needs atonal music and then in other posts you go on like "Hey man, everyone has their own tastes, don't hate on me just cause I dislike something".

It's pretty disingenuous.


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