# Tchaikovsky Symphony no 6 Pathetique



## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Watched a beautiful performance of Tchaikovsky 6th symphony on You Tube performed by Andrew Litton. Not sure of orchestra. 
Was told I was humming the third movement at six years old!

The last movement is so sad when the music just dies! Did Tchaikovsky know what was going to happen days later perhaps?

Discovered what the third piano concerto had to do with it! Amazing!


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

One of the world's greatest unsolved mysteries, the cause of Tchaikovsky's death. Many musicologists feel he knew it would be his requiem. An account of the way he conducted it suggests so. I believe it is a conspiracy theory, the cholera.


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## Vox Gabrieli (Jan 9, 2017)

I also would think it's cholera, however further discussion with some friends brought up some absurd theory that he jumped off a bridge.


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## Vox Gabrieli (Jan 9, 2017)

'Pathetic' is my favorite Tchaikovsky symphony, although with much appreciation for the rest of his. I was very touched by the final movement. Especially this recording where the conductor sits in silence for several minutes after. It really is heartbreaking! Please do watch the final movement to this listed video:


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks to Alexander Poznansky's book _Tchaikovsky: The Quest for the Inner Man_, which made use of Tchaik's own documents that were not available to earlier researchers, most musicologists consider the mystery to be solved: cholera. Meanwhile, David Brown's books on Tchaik from the 1980s, which were the main perpetuators of the suicide legend, have been pretty thoroughly discredited, especially after the author himself admitted that his own disapproval of homosexuality persuaded him to hear Tchaikovsky's music as confessional because he wanted to believe that Tchaik felt guilt over his sexuality.

There were two personal letters Poznansky found that helped shed light on the Sixth Symphony in particular. The first one contradicts the myth that Tchaik was in a depressed state of mind when he wrote it. The letter, which was written during the composition of the symphony, reads in part, "I have never felt such self-satisfaction, such pride, such happiness as in the consciousness that I am really the creator of this beautiful work."

An even more interesting letter comes from a recollection of a conversation Chaikovsky had a few days before his death with a friend of his brother Modest. The friend had apparently brought up the subject of death, and Chaikovsky's response does not seem to lend support to the suicide theory: "There is plenty of time before we need to reckon with this horror [death]; it will not come to snatch us off just yet! *I feel I shall live a long time*."


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Great research. I guess that disproves my conspiracy theory. It would work better as a movie though. His Brokeback Symphony.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Gabriel Ortiz said:


> I also would think it's cholera, however further discussion with some friends brought up some absurd theory that he jumped off a bridge.


Could he have been drinking the water knowing it was going to make him ill and commit suicide that way?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I cut and paste this from my blog every time the Tchaikovsky suicide rumor comes up. The information, which explains how this story got started, is mostly from Pozanansky's biography of the composer:

The earliest identified written source of the Tchaikovsky suicide rumor is in the as yet unpublished memoirs of one R.A. Mooser, a Swiss writer on music who arrived in St. Petersburg in 1896, well after the composer's death. He was never accepted in the musical circles of the city and Alexander Poznansky, Tchaikovsky's biographer, suggests that this outsider status motivated him to pose as someone with juicy inside knowledge. He claims to have first heard the rumor from an unidentified critic at the St. Petersburg Zeitung. Later he claims to have heard it again from Riccardo Drigo, the ballet conductor at the Mariinsky Theater, and Alexander Glazunov. Since neither of these people could possibly have had any first hand knowledge of the alleged suicide, Mooser's report — even if his highly unlikely claims about Drigo and Glazunov are true — is at best third hand gossip written by a nonentity. Please let this ridiculous story DIE!



In general, it is romantic mythology to assume a dark work reflects the emotional life of its composer. Tchaikovsky was probably at his happiest and most fulfilled in the time around the composing of the Pathetique.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Judith said:


> Could he have been drinking the water knowing it was going to make him ill and commit suicide that way?


No. He didn't want to die. He was happy at the time!


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

The improper French translation of the name of the Symphony No. 6 may add to the (probably incorrect) notion that it is a musical suicide note. The name should mean passionate, not pity. I'm not really sure why the improper name stuck instead of the intended name.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Great research. I guess that disproves my conspiracy theory. It would work better as a movie though. His Brokeback Symphony.


I think it's time for a new movie about the life of Tchaikovsky. Surely this would be interesting to a lot of people, given the drama of his life and tragic death. Who should play the major roles?


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> No. He didn't want to die. He was happy at the time!


To all appearances yes, but (genuine question) wouldn't he have known about the cholera risk and, if so, might his apparently happy earlier demeanour have been a case of putting on a brave face? I get the doubts about the "Court of Honour" theory, but wasn't drinking that water an odd thing for a happy man to do?


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

Judith said:


> Watched a beautiful performance of Tchaikovsky 6th symphony on You Tube performed by Andrew Litton. Not sure of orchestra.
> Was told I was humming the third movement at six years old!
> 
> The last movement is so sad when the music just dies! Did Tchaikovsky know what was going to happen days later perhaps?
> ...


I was curious about this particular performance since I've listened to many renditions and my favorite was conducted by Karajan, I must say I liked this rendition very much. I have a "bad" habit of beginning to listening to this symphony from the final since I think if final is played as it should be then the entire symphony is well performed. and this time I did the same 

I remember myself as a teenager , I always cried while listening to this final ( and now it's me who has nothing to write in a thread "the most moving pieces of music "!!!  , yeah, time passes by) and at the same time I had this wonderful feeling of loving all humanity, being one with all people : sounds like something from a "new age" philosophy, but back then I had no idea about that "new age" phenomenon. Now I wonder why people participate in various retreats to activate various chakras and open 10 more eyes, etc or meditate to feel universal love whereas listening to this symphony can produce an instant effect without meditating for hours to achieve this state.... 

well, all in all I think young , very young people are still much more sensitive, that's why all those emotions....because their skin is thinner. Generally I think it's true.

so, now going back to this symphony I think about listening to it once again will be rewarding especially if one hasn't listen to it for a long time. now I will begin since the very beginning - bassoon solo


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

carol235 said:


> I think it's time for a new movie about the life of Tchaikovsky. Surely this would be interesting to a lot of people, given the drama of his life and tragic death. Who should play the major roles?


Jake Gyllenhal as Peter no doubt.

Or Christian Bale, he is more of the right age


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Animal the Drummer said:


> To all appearances yes, but (genuine question) wouldn't he have known about the cholera risk


The current consensus among researchers is that Tchaik had several reasons to think the risk was minimal. The incident happened in St. Petersburg, where a previous wave of cholera, followed by outbreaks elsewhere, made the disease seem like it was on its way out. Also, cholera was seen as a lower class illness since its main form of transmission was bad hygiene and bad water, so Tchaik (who by that point was basically an honorary member of royalty) likely thought he was relatively safe.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Eschbeg said:


> The current consensus among researchers is that Tchaik had several reasons to think the risk was minimal. The incident happened in St. Petersburg, where a previous wave of cholera, followed by outbreaks elsewhere, made the disease seem like it was on its way out. Also, cholera was seen as a lower class illness since its main form of transmission was bad hygiene and bad water, so Tchaik (who by that point was basically an honorary member of royalty) likely thought he was relatively safe.


It was Salieri. He must have offer Mr. T the tainted water.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Klassik said:


> The improper French translation of the name of the Symphony No. 6 may add to the (probably incorrect) notion that it is a musical suicide note. The name should mean passionate, not pity. I'm not really sure why the improper name stuck instead of the intended name.


It's also worth noting that the subtitle appears not to have been Tchaikovsky's idea. The symphony was not performed under that subtitle at its premiere, anyway. It appeared later, at a memorial performance a few weeks after Tchaik's death. His brother Modest claimed credit for thinking up the subtitle.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Phil loves classical said:


> It was Salieri. He must have offer Mr. T the tainted water.


I'm pretty sure it was actually Ms. Scarlett in the billiard room with the wrench... though I have not ruled out the second gunman on the grassy knoll.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Eschbeg said:


> It's also worth noting that the subtitle appears not to have been Tchaikovsky's idea. The symphony was not performed under that subtitle at its premiere, anyway. It appeared later, at a memorial performance a few weeks after Tchaik's death. His brother Modest claimed credit for thinking up the subtitle.


He claimed the credit modestly, no doubt.


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