# My personal Schumann symphonies journey.........



## Itullian

My favorite symphonies in the world are the Schumann and the Brahms.

As I did with my Beethoven string quartet thread, I will attempt listing them and giving my impressions of them.

I love these works so bear with me a bit.

If I have left any cycles out, please let me know and I will try to get them and include them.
I hope you will enjoy the thread. :tiphat:

My current cycles:
Barenboim, Teldec, DDD
Bernstein, DG, DDD
Bernstein, Sony, ADD
Butt, Nimbus, DDD
Dohnanyi, Decca, DDD
Eschenbach, RCA, DDD
Eschenbach, Virgin Classics, DDD
Goodman, RCA, DDD, hip
Haitink, Philips, DDD
Inbal, Philips, ADD
Jordan, Erato, DDD
Karajan, DGG, ADD
Klemperer, EMI, ADD
Konwitchny, Berlin Classics, ADD
Kubelik, DGG, ADD
Kublelik, Sony, ADD
Levine, DGG, DDD
Levine, RCA, ADD
Masur, Teldec, DDD
Muti, EMI, ADD
Muti, Philips, DDD
Sawallisch, EMI, ADD
Sinopoli, DGG, DDD
Solti, Decca, ADD
Szell, Sony, ADD
Thielemann, DGG, DDD
Thielemann, Sony, DDD
Zinman, Arte Nova, DDD

I'm still in the process of hearing a few, so I will post my opinions a bit later.
Any others you think I should include?
Hope you will enjoy my tribute to Maestro Schumann. :tiphat:


----------



## Judith

Have a lovely Schumann set performed by Marriner and asmf. 
Recently bought a Brahms set by Marek Janowski and RLPO. Their no 4 is just right for me


----------



## Ras

*Sawallisch*

You forgot Wolfgang Sawallisch.


----------



## flamencosketches

Have you heard the Sawallisch/Dresden? I've heard a bit of it and it sounds excellent.










The one that I own, though, is Bernstein/Vienna on DG. Very very good stuff too. I'm not too big on Schumann's symphonies yet myself, unfortunately. I think there is something of value there, but it has yet to "click" with me. Thanks for the intriguing thread, Itullian. I am frequently curious about your massive library of the core repertoire recordings.


----------



## Itullian

Thanks guys. I knew I'd forget one! 
Now included.


----------



## Kiki

Some additional ones off the top of my head that IMO are worth hearing -
Rattle/Berlin (BP Recordings)
Ticciati/SCO (LINN)
Muti/Philharmonia (EMI)
Gardiner/OReR (Archiv)
Harnoncourt/COE (Teldec)
Sawallisch/Dresden (EMI) 
Herreweghe /Champs-Elysées (Harmonia Mundi)
Marriner/ASMF (Hänssler)

I am not a fan of the followings, but who knows, you might like them -
Sawallisch/Philadelphia (Philadelphia Orchestra Association)
Nézet-Séguin/COE (DG)
Luisi/VSO (Orfeo)

BTW, Rattle offers only the 1841 No. 4, Gardiner both 1841 and 1851, and Harnoncourt 1841 in the set and 1851 separately with Berlin (also Teldec).


----------



## Ras

*Hipsy hopsy*

If you want to go hip you could try Gardiner or semi hip Thomas Dausgaard. I don't like them myself **


----------



## wkasimer

Ras said:


> If you want to go hip you could try Gardiner or semi hip Thomas Dausgaard. I don't like them myself **


Two of my favorites, though...


----------



## DarkAngel

Paray on Mercury label, although the 4th is mono the rest are early stereo 1954-58.......


----------



## Manxfeeder

Judith said:


> Have a lovely Schumann set performed by Marriner and asmf.


I have that one. I need to listen to it again.

Marriner did another cycle with the Stuttgart orchestra. I need to listen to it again. I don't remember it making an impression the first time I heard it.

Celibidache recorded Nos. 2 through 4 with Munich. Again, I need to listen to it again.

Shucks, I need to get caught up with my Schumann cycles.


----------



## flamencosketches

Manxfeeder said:


> Celibidache recorded Nos. 2 through 4 with Munich. Again, I need to listen to it again.


Are they all slow and Zen'd out?


----------



## Heck148

Itullian said:


> Any others you think I should include?
> Hope you will enjoy my tribute to Maestro Schumann.


You should try to find Barenboim/CSO/DG from the late 70s....really excellent - IMO, far better than his Teldec series...

All are good - best Sym#1, Best Sym #2 Scherzo I've ever heard - really blistering tempo, sparkling, clean....fine 3 and 4 - rank up there with Bernstein/NYPO.

My favorite #2 of all is Reiner/CSO from live concert 10/57...great performance, one that just grows throughout each mvt to a rousing finish...


----------



## Manxfeeder

flamencosketches said:


> Are they all slow and Zen'd out?


I'm listening to the 2nd. I guess Zen'd would fit. It's slow but not intolerably slow; he doesn't sacrifice momentum. I get the impression he wants to give us time to hear things that normally zoom by.


----------



## Merl

Give me an hour and i'll give you a list. Loads to go on here.......lol. Btw, a lot of people have mentioned Marriner's ASMF cycle but his Stuttgsrt RSO cycle is even better.


----------



## Merl

Ok, as you know from our conversations, Itullian, I'm also a fellow Schumann cycle nut (and don't even get me started on Brahms cycles, they're nearly as bad as my LvB obsession). Been through the CD racks and HD and these are the omissions (still need to check my secondary HD though so there may be others). I've starred any that I feel are *definitely* required listening. You missed out:

Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
Semkow / St. Louis *
Solti / VPO*
Vonk / Kolner RSO
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken*
Wit / Polish NRSO*
Gaudenz / Odense**
Noseda / Cadaques
Boult / LPO
Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
Mehta / VPO
Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
Sinopoli / Dresden
Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
Bostock / Czech PO
Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
Kletzki / Israel PO*
Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
Norrington / SWR
Holliger / Koln WDR*
Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
Steffens / DSRP*
Barenboim / CSO 
Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
Schwarz / Seattle SO
Jarvi / Bremen
Nowak / RPO
Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic

I'm off to check my other HD to see if I have missed any out. :lol:


----------



## CnC Bartok

Sawallisch, Gardiner and Kubelik (DGG) for me. I've got a dozen or so more sets, but these are the ones which have stood out for a long time.


----------



## flamencosketches

Why did Mahler reorchestrate these works...? I've heard it said that Schumann's symphonies are poorly orchestrated, but I don't hear it.


----------



## Guest

flamencosketches said:


> Why did Mahler reorchestrate these works...? I've heard it said that Schumann's symphonies are poorly orchestrated, but I don't hear it.


We have discussed in other recent threads my long-standing interest in Schumann. He is in my top 5. 
I'm also sure we have discussed specifically elsewhere recently some of the best recordings of his symphonies, so I'm not going to repeat all that again here.

You ask about the allegation that Schumann was a poor orchestrator. This is a topic that has been discussed many times before on various forums. It was quite a common opinion at one time concerning Schumann. He was seen as a good piano composer but some thought that he had little idea how to compose for an orchestra. This was not a criticism of his creative genius, but more an alleged lack of technical knowledge in order to do a proper job. Mahler had a "go" at re-orchestrating the 4 symphonies but I don't like them. More modern opinion, however, is a lot more sympathetic and it's now generally regarded as a criticism with no real substance, given the various ways that the perceived "problems" have been overcome.

It's quite a complex story all told, and I do not remember all of the alleged problems with Schumann's orchestration. One was that he lacked of technical knowledge of what the various orchestral instruments could play successfully, mainly in the area of brass, and this gave rise to "balance problems". The overall sound could be rather "mushy", not crisp and clear. Another was that his tempo markings were erratic and didn't seem to make much sense at times. In Schumann's day the standard orchestra was smaller than those today, which also caused problems when modern orchestras played his work without proper regard for this.

Many modern recordings get round these problems in various ways, so that they're no longer noticeable. Conductors have instructed that certain brass instrument notes be played slightly differently from what's in the scores. They have also made various tempo adjustments, and some have altered the structure of the orchestra to match better the layout that Schumann was used to. That's why these so-called problems haven't troubled you, as they are not there in the best recordings. They have never troubled me because I have always gone for the best available.


----------



## NLAdriaan

Curious to hear from the Schumannites here which of the many recordings you favour and why. I have Haitink en Chailly cycles and a single one by LB/VPO. I must say that from this limited selection I prefer the single Bernstein/VPO one (Rheinische). 

I must admit that Schumann's symphonies are not in my top 5 (his solo piano and Lieder-cycles however are), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have a recording to which I connect. Maybe I should put Bernsteins DG cycle on my wanted list?


----------



## Merl

Right, here's an updated list of missing cycles. I'm still sure I'm missing a few but.......

Ok, as you know from our conversations, Itullian, I'm also a fellow Schumann cycle nut (and don't even get me started on Brahms cycles, they're nearly as bad as my LvB obsession). Been through the CD racks and HD and these are the omissions (still need to check my secondary HD though so there may be others). I've starred any that I feel are definitely required listening. You missed out:

Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
Semkow / St. Louis *
Solti / VPO*
Vonk / Kolner RSO
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken*
Wit / Polish NRSO*
Gaudenz / Odense**
Noseda / Cadaques
Boult / LPO
Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
Mehta / VPO
Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
Sinopoli / Dresden
Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
Bostock / Czech PO
Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
Kletzki / Israel PO*
Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
Norrington / SWR
Holliger / Koln WDR*
Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
Steffens / DSRP*
Barenboim / CSO
Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
Schwarz / Seattle SO
Jarvi / Bremen
Nowak / RPO
Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic
Commissiona / Houston SO (part of the Schumann Big Box)
Markl / NHK
Kovatchev / Verdi Trieste
Foster / CzPO
Naxos cycle #1 (before the better Wit cycle) - Rahbari (1&3) & Wildner (2&4)
Point Classics cycle (Fedoseyev, etc)


----------



## flamencosketches

NLAdriaan said:


> Curious to hear from the Schumannites here which of the many recordings you favour and why. I have Haitink en Chailly cycles and a single one by LB/VPO. I must say that from this limited selection I prefer the single Bernstein/VPO one (Rheinische).
> 
> I must admit that Schumann's symphonies are not in my top 5 (his solo piano and Lieder-cycles however are), but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have a recording to which I connect. Maybe I should put Bernsteins DG cycle on my wanted list?


I really like the Bernstein/Vienna DG. I think it'd be a great choice, though I'm right there with you: Schumann is top 5 in solo piano and Lieder, but not even close in terms of his symphonies (I'm new to them - haven't even heard the Rhenish).

@Partita. Thank you for your explanation. This makes me curious though. I want to hear a recording in which the conductor did not make said corrections and instead had the orchestra play literally following the score to a tee. Perhaps a period instrument orchestra (ie. Gardiner's ORR, haven't they recorded the cycle?) might be able to do this without encountering many problems...?

@Partita, I just wanted to thank you again for your perspective re: Schumann performances and recordings, as well as your expressed thoughts on the nature of his music more generally (in previous recent threads). Schumann has come from being a composer I didn't much care about to a real favorite in the past few months, and some of yours and other posts here were instrumental in getting me to reconsider his music. I'm grateful that I've gotten to understand and appreciate his beautiful music quite a bit lately.


----------



## jegreenwood

Merl said:


> Right, here's an updated list of missing cycles. I'm still sure I'm missing a few but.......
> 
> Ok, as you know from our conversations, Itullian, I'm also a fellow Schumann cycle nut (and don't even get me started on Brahms cycles, they're nearly as bad as my LvB obsession). Been through the CD racks and HD and these are the omissions (still need to check my secondary HD though so there may be others). I've starred any that I feel are definitely required listening. You missed out:
> 
> Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
> Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
> Semkow / St. Louis *
> Solti / VPO*
> Vonk / Kolner RSO
> Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken*
> Wit / Polish NRSO*
> Gaudenz / Odense**
> Noseda / Cadaques
> Boult / LPO
> Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
> Mehta / VPO
> Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
> Sinopoli / Dresden
> Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
> Bostock / Czech PO
> Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
> Kletzki / Israel PO*
> Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
> Norrington / SWR
> Holliger / Koln WDR*
> Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
> Steffens / DSRP*
> Barenboim / CSO
> Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
> Schwarz / Seattle SO
> Jarvi / Bremen
> Nowak / RPO
> Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic
> Commissiona / Houston SO (part of the Schumann Big Box)
> Markl / NHK
> Kovatchev / Verdi Trieste
> Foster / CzPO
> Naxos cycle #1 (before the better Wit cycle) - Rahbari (1&3) & Wildner (2&4)
> Point Classics cycle (Fedoseyev, etc)


No Szell?!?!?!? (needed 15 characters)


----------



## Merl

jegreenwood said:


> No Szell?!?!?!? (needed 15 characters)


These were just the cycles Itullian missed. He mentioned Szell in the original post. See post #1. I make that a total of 63 cycles.


----------



## Guest

Wow, that's a lot of recordings.

My favorites are Harnoncourt, Dohnanyi/WPO, Paray/Detroit.


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

The only set I have is Serg Commisiona and the Houston Symphony. Unknown but I like it.


----------



## jim prideaux

the Oramo/Royal Stockholm cycle that Merl lists is very rarely mentioned and really is worthy of far more recognition!


----------



## Merl

Ok, so combining Itullian's initial list, other recordings suggested and my top-up list here's an updated list of Schumann cycles:

Barenboim, Teldec, DDD
Bernstein, DG, DDD
Bernstein, Sony, ADD
Butt, Nimbus, DDD
Dohnanyi, Decca, DDD
Eschenbach, RCA, DDD
Eschenbach, Virgin Classics, DDD
Goodman, RCA, DDD, hip
Haitink, Philips, DDD
Inbal, Philips, ADD
Jordan, Erato, DDD
Karajan, DGG, ADD
Klemperer, EMI, ADD
Konwitchny, Berlin Classics, ADD
Kubelik, DGG, ADD
Kublelik, Sony, ADD
Levine, DGG, DDD
Levine, RCA, ADD
Masur, Teldec, DDD
Muti, EMI, ADD
Muti, Philips, DDD
Sawallisch, EMI, ADD
Sinopoli, DGG, DDD
Solti, Decca, ADD
Szell, Sony, ADD
Thielemann, DGG, DDD
Thielemann, Sony, DDD
Zinman, Arte Nova, DDD
Janowski /RLPO
Marriner / ASMF
Marriner / Stuttgart
Rattle/Berlin (BP Recordings)
Ticciati/SCO (LINN)
Gardiner/OReR (Archiv)
Harnoncourt/COE (Teldec)
Herreweghe /Champs-Elysées (Harmonia Mundi)
Sawallisch/Philadelphia (Philadelphia Orchestra Association)
Nézet-Séguin/COE (DG)
Luisi/VSO (Orfeo)
Dausgaard / Swedish CO
Paray / Detroit SO
Celibidache / Munich (2-4 only)
Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
Semkow / St. Louis *
Solti / VPO*
Vonk / Kolner RSO
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken (DRP)*
Wit / Polish NRSO*
Gaudenz / Odense**
Noseda / Cadaques
Boult / LPO
Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
Mehta / VPO
Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
Sinopoli / Dresden
Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
Bostock / Czech PO
Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
Kletzki / Israel PO*
Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
Norrington / SWR
Holliger / Koln WDR*
Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
Steffens / DSRP*
Barenboim / CSO
Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
Schwarz / Seattle SO
Jarvi / Bremen
Nowak / RPO
Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic
Commissiona / Houston SO (part of the Schumann Big Box)
Markl / NHK
Kovatchev / Verdi Trieste
Inbal / Frankfurt
Foster / CzPO
Naxos cycle #1 (before the better Wit cycle) - Rahbari (1&3) & Wildner (2&4)
Point Classics cycle (Fedoseyev, etc) 

I make that a heady 76 cycles! The sad part is i have 95% of these. Lol. If anyone finds any more or if there's any glaring omissions then let us know.


----------



## Larkenfield

The Sawallisch on EMI, already mentioned, are reference recordings for many, and well-deserved in my opinion. It’s hard to explain the word idiomatic, but there’s something that I believe Schumann himself would have liked in the warmth and grace of these memorable performances, at least for this listener. I rarely have a desire to hear other sets. All four can be heard online but are even better on discs.


----------



## Merl

Although i have so most of these i tend to rotate around certain cycles with Sawallisch sat at the head of a very crowded field. As Larkenfield said theres just something magical about the Sawallisch / Dresden combo. It started as the benchmark set and has now become the desert island disc for Schumann, no matter how many sets ive accrued since. However, ive also been playing Vonk, Barenboim (Berlin), Bernstein (VPO), Dohnanyi, Solti, both Levine recordings, Holliger, Wit, Tilson-Thomas, Ticciati, Janowski, Semkow, Oramo, Steffens, Gaudenz, Szell, Jordan, Skrowaczewski and Kletzki in the last year. All of these have their special merits.


----------



## Kiki

Does anyone know, which cycles have got the 1841 No. 4, apart from Rattle, Harnoncourt, Gardiner and Holliger? Thanks.


----------



## Merl

Kiki said:


> Does anyone know, which cycles have got the 1841 No. 4, apart from Rattle, Harnoncourt, Gardiner and Holliger? Thanks.


Markl, Solomons (not a cycle - disc of 1&4 only), Dausgaard and Commissiona are the only others I can think of. As a side-note (he used the revised 4th) Dudamel's LA cycle has just been recorded live. Judging by the reviews that should make for interesting listening.


----------



## Itullian

Wow! That's an amazing collection Merl.
I thought I was the only Schumann symphony nut.


----------



## Merl

Itullian said:


> Wow! That's an amazing collection Merl.
> I thought I was the only Schumann symphony nut.


My Brahms symphony cycles numbers are even more disturbing. Dvorak would be the same but theres a much more limited number. Lol

Btw, Itullian, you need to hear Ticciati and Gaudenz. They make Schumann transparent, airy and delightful to listen to. No thick, cloying orchestral textures, just sheer beauty. I love both sets. The Gaudenz set always brings a smile to my face. It's a delight. Nezet-Seguin attempts the same but doesnt quite pull it off. For old-stylee Schumann in a lusher vein Semkow is cool for an oldie (and cheap as chips - £2 tops on Ebay), Kubelik BRSO is nice, Tilson-Thomas is great, Wit is engaging, Dohnanyi is marvellous and Kletzki is classy. For a bit more umph it's Szell and Solti. I go through phases with Karajan's set. It was one of the first i had and i loved it for years. Then along came Sawallisch and Karajan was demoted. About a year ago I stopped listening to HvK's Schumann and deemed it too 'soggy' right up till a few weeks back, when i put it on and liked it all over again (he does the 4th soooo sumptuously its hard not to love it). However, these days I prefer something a little more airy but when i want THAT sound in my Schumann there's no one like Herbie! I blow hot and cold on a few sets (eg Holliger, Lang- Lessing) but keep returning to them cos they do speak to me. The difference is the others shout at me. Sometimes I swear that Sawallisch disc hold a placard saying 'play me' every time i pass the cd racks.:trp:


----------



## Bwv 1080

What about the Mahler orchestrations? Mahlers changes were minor and reflected the capabilities of modern instruments as much as it clarified (not 'fixed') some of the orchestration. Nothing wrong with Schumann's original orchestration, but I like this disk alot:


----------



## geralmar

Haven't seen this listed:



In the only printed review I've read the reviewer excoriated it as badly conducted and played. So of course I somehow wound up with two copies.


----------



## Merl

geralmar said:


> Haven't seen this listed:
> 
> 
> 
> In the only printed review I've read the reviewer excoriated it as badly conducted and played. So of course I somehow wound up with two copies.


I'll add it to the list. Thanks.


----------



## Merl

Revised list: I found another one apart from the one posted my Geralmar

Barenboim, Teldec, DDD
Bernstein, DG, DDD
Bernstein, Sony, ADD
Butt, Nimbus, DDD
Dohnanyi, Decca, DDD
Eschenbach, RCA, DDD
Eschenbach, Virgin Classics, DDD
Goodman, RCA, DDD, hip
Haitink, Philips, DDD
Inbal, Philips, ADD
Jordan, Erato, DDD
Karajan, DGG, ADD
Klemperer, EMI, ADD
Konwitchny, Berlin Classics, ADD
Kubelik, DGG, ADD
Kublelik, Sony, ADD
Levine, DGG, DDD
Levine, RCA, ADD
Masur, Teldec, DDD
Muti, EMI, ADD
Muti, Philips, DDD
Sawallisch, EMI, ADD
Sinopoli, DGG, DDD
Solti, Decca, ADD
Szell, Sony, ADD
Thielemann, DGG, DDD
Thielemann, Sony, DDD
Zinman, Arte Nova, DDD
Janowski /RLPO
Marriner / ASMF
Marriner / Stuttgart
Rattle/Berlin (BP Recordings)
Ticciati/SCO (LINN)
Gardiner/OReR (Archiv)
Harnoncourt/COE (Teldec)
Herreweghe /Champs-Elysées (Harmonia Mundi)
Sawallisch/Philadelphia (Philadelphia Orchestra Association)
Nézet-Séguin/COE (DG)
Luisi/VSO (Orfeo)
Dausgaard / Swedish CO
Paray / Detroit SO
Celibidache / Munich (2-4 only)
Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
Semkow / St. Louis *
Solti / VPO*
Vonk / Kolner RSO
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken (DRP)*
Wit / Polish NRSO*
Gaudenz / Odense**
Noseda / Cadaques
Boult / LPO
Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
Mehta / VPO
Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
Sinopoli / Dresden
Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
Bostock / Czech PO
Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
Kletzki / Israel PO*
Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
Norrington / SWR
Holliger / Koln WDR*
Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
Steffens / DSRP*
Barenboim / CSO
Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
Schwarz / Seattle SO
Jarvi / Bremen
Nowak / RPO
Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic
Commissiona / Houston SO (part of the Schumann Big Box)
Markl / NHK
Kovatchev / Verdi Trieste
Inbal / Frankfurt
Foster / CzPO
Naxos cycle #1 (before the better Wit cycle) - Rahbari (1&3) & Wildner (2&4)
Point Classics cycle (Fedoseyev, etc)
Merz / Dusseldorf Philharmonie
Kenneth Woods / Orchestra of the Swan

We're up to 78 cycles.


----------



## Guest

^^ one note is that Harnoncourt recorded both versions of symphony no 4 if you include his earlier recording with the Berlin Philharmoniker.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Larkenfield said:


> The Sawallisch on EMI, already mentioned, are reference recordings for many, and well-deserved in my opinion. It's hard to explain the word idiomatic, but there's something that I believe Schumann himself would have liked in the warmth and grace of these memorable performances, at least for this listener. I rarely have a desire to hear other sets. All four can be heard online but are even better on discs.


Nope, nothing wrong with the word "idiomatic". Le mot juste!


----------



## Merl

Revised list: I found another one by Venzago (A Different Schumann Vols 1-3)

Barenboim, Teldec, DDD
Bernstein, DG, DDD
Bernstein, Sony, ADD
Butt, Nimbus, DDD
Dohnanyi, Decca, DDD
Eschenbach, RCA, DDD
Eschenbach, Virgin Classics, DDD
Goodman, RCA, DDD, hip
Haitink, Philips, DDD
Inbal, Philips, ADD
Jordan, Erato, DDD
Karajan, DGG, ADD
Klemperer, EMI, ADD
Konwitchny, Berlin Classics, ADD
Kubelik, DGG, ADD
Kublelik, Sony, ADD
Levine, DGG, DDD
Levine, RCA, ADD
Masur, Teldec, DDD
Muti, EMI, ADD
Muti, Philips, DDD
Sawallisch, EMI, ADD
Sinopoli, DGG, DDD
Solti, Decca, ADD
Szell, Sony, ADD
Thielemann, DGG, DDD
Thielemann, Sony, DDD
Zinman, Arte Nova, DDD
Janowski /RLPO
Marriner / ASMF
Marriner / Stuttgart
Rattle/Berlin (BP Recordings)
Ticciati/SCO (LINN)
Gardiner/OReR (Archiv)
Harnoncourt/COE (Teldec)
Herreweghe /Champs-Elysées (Harmonia Mundi)
Sawallisch/Philadelphia (Philadelphia Orchestra Association)
Nézet-Séguin/COE (DG)
Luisi/VSO (Orfeo)
Dausgaard / Swedish CO
Paray / Detroit SO
Celibidache / Munich (2-4 only)
Chailly / Gewandhaus* (Mahler re-orchestrations)
Michael Woods / Philharmnonia
Semkow / St. Louis *
Solti / VPO*
Vonk / Kolner RSO
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken (DRP)*
Wit / Polish NRSO*
Gaudenz / Odense**
Noseda / Cadaques
Boult / LPO
Kuhn / Haydn Orch of Trent and Bolzano
Mehta / VPO
Rozhdestvensky / Estonian SSR
Sinopoli / Dresden
Tilson-Thomas / SFSO**
Bostock / Czech PO
Ceccato / Bergen PO (Mahler Edition)
Kletzki / Israel PO*
Beerman / Schumann Philharmonic*
Norrington / SWR
Holliger / Koln WDR*
Lang-Lessing / Tasmanian SO*
Steffens / DSRP*
Barenboim / CSO
Oramo / Royal Stockholm PO*
Schwarz / Seattle SO
Jarvi / Bremen
Nowak / RPO
Schonwandt / Netherlands Radio Chamber Philharmonic
Commissiona / Houston SO (part of the Schumann Big Box)
Markl / NHK
Kovatchev / Verdi Trieste
Inbal / Frankfurt
Foster / CzPO
Naxos cycle #1 (before the better Wit cycle) - Rahbari (1&3) & Wildner (2&4)
Point Classics cycle (Fedoseyev, etc)
Merz / Dusseldorf Philharmonie
Kenneth Woods / Orchestra of the Swan
Venzago / Basel SO

We're up to 79 cycles. Is this going to end?


----------



## DarkAngel

Merl said:


> Ok, so combining Itullian's initial list, other recordings suggested and my top-up list here's an updated list of Schumann cycles:
> 
> I make that a heady 76 cycles! The sad part is i have 95% of these. Lol. If anyone finds any more or if there's any glaring omissions then let us know.


OK now the obvious question, top 5 from full list if you can only keep 5...........

Mine would start with Sawallisch still after all these years, I do have a couple Schumann sets on the way after doing some research from main list


----------



## Merl

DarkAngel said:


> OK now the obvious question, top 5 from full list if you can only keep 5...........
> 
> Mine would start with Sawallisch still after all these years, I do have a couple Schumann sets on the way after doing some research from main list


A top 5 from that lot? Tough, as it changes a lot but the one constant is Sawallisch. He remains top of the tree for me but (at the moment} the other 4 would be Tilson-Thomas, Barenboim 2, Ticciati, Levine (Phil}. Expect 4 different ones in a month's time (Gaudenz? Konwitschny? Dohnanyi? Skrowaczewski? Wit? Solti? Vonk? Bernstein? Zinman?).


----------



## Itullian

My top 5 would be much more controversial.
I like Sawallisch as well.

followed by Bernstein DG, Dohnanyi Decca, Levine DG, Jordan Erato.
But I'm still listening 

Of course with me I always have Klemperer close by 
And Thielemann


----------



## DarkAngel

Itullian said:


> My top 5 would be much more controversial.
> I like Sawallisch as well.
> 
> followed by *Bernstein DG*, Dohnanyi Decca, Levine DG, Jordan Erato.
> But I'm still listening
> 
> Of course with me I always have *Klemperer close by*
> And Thielemann


Agree on Bernstein DG, that would have to be in top 5 somewhere.....
From Merl's big list I have on the way Gaudenz & Tilson Thomas

BTW I just recently listened to Klemperer Schumann set from one of the recent Klemp boxsets, much better than I expected lacking just a bit of jump factor but has much to admire, also from same boxset Schubert 9 and Mendelssohn 4 / Midsummer Night exceed expectations.....


----------



## Itullian

Just got done comparing Levine's RCA set with Muti's Philips set.
Levine wins by 100 miles.
More exciting, more perceptual Schumann.
Even Muti's EMI cycle is better than this Philips blah set.

What ever happened to this guy?
At least his older EMI recordings had some excitement to them.
His Philips Brahms is blah too. shrugs


----------



## Merl

Itullian said:


> Just got done comparing Levine's RCA set with Muti's Philips set.
> Levine wins by 100 miles.
> More exciting, more perceptual Schumann.
> Even Muti's EMI cycle is better than this Philips blah set.
> 
> What ever happened to this guy?
> At least his older EMI recordings had some excitement to them.
> His Philips Brahms is blah too. shrugs


Agreed. Muti in Brahms, Schumann and Beethoven = average


----------



## Guest

I have thousands of CDs, and I can think of one by Muti, which I don't listen to.
:lol:


----------



## jegreenwood

Baron Scarpia said:


> I have thousands of CDs, and I can think of one by Muti, which I don't listen to.
> :lol:


So if I read you correctly (and though your grammar is perfect, I misunderstood it on first and second reading) you have one Muti CD in your collection, and you don't listen to it.

I bought an EMI mega-box of Verdi operas a while back. Muti conducts a number of them. I believe those are my only albums by him.


----------



## wkasimer

Baron Scarpia said:


> I have thousands of CDs, and I can think of one by Muti, which I don't listen to.
> :lol:


The only Muti recordings I listen to with any regularity are Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique and Orff's Carmina Burana. I have a couple of opera recordings with him - Nabucco, Aida, and William Tell - but I certainly haven't kept them for Muti's contributions.


----------



## DarkAngel

DarkAngel said:


> Agree on Bernstein DG, that would have to be in top 5 somewhere.....
> From Merl's big list *I have on the way Gaudenz & Tilson Thomas*


*Gaudenz* is very fast tempo and very clear clarified textures, so much so I wonder if smaller scale orchestra used or limited vibrato technique, has the orchestral outlines correct but compared to reference Sawallish lacks some refined nuance and rich romantic sweep.....

*Tilson Thomas* very much in the Sawallisch style with even better modern SACD hybrid sound, has the refinement and nuance along with correct lifted romantic rythms that always keeps your attention, very nice overall, if Sawallisch is 10/10 then new MTT is a solid 9.5/10, this will probably go in my top 5 list.....


----------



## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> So if I read you correctly (and though your grammar is perfect, I misunderstood it on first and second reading) you have one Muti CD in your collection, and you don't listen to it.


That is correct, I find him lacking subtlety. The one CD I can think of is the Pines of Rome, etc, Respighi.

In retrospect, I guess you could read my post as saying I have an undetermined number of of Muti CDs, of which there is one I don't listen to.


----------



## jegreenwood

Baron Scarpia said:


> That is correct, I find him lacking subtlety. The one CD I can think of is the Pines of Rome, etc, Respighi.
> 
> In retrospect, I guess you could read my post as saying I have an undetermined number of of Muti CDs, of which there is one I don't listen to.


That was my first (and second) reading, but proper grammar precludes that reading. If that's what you meant, you would have written:

I have thousands of CDs, and I can think of one by Muti _(no comma)_ *that* I don't listen to.


----------



## Helgi

And up you go!

I'm looking at Schumann symphony cycles at the moment and was wondering what you guys thought of the recent Gardiner/LSO recordings?


----------



## Merl

Helgi said:


> And up you go!
> 
> I'm looking at Schumann symphony cycles at the moment and was wondering what you guys thought of the recent Gardiner/LSO recordings?


It's a good solid set with some lovely detail but for better versions of these works I'd go for Tilson Thomas and the San Franciscans. That's a great set. More buoyant than Gardiner and great sound. If you have Gardiner's ORR cycle you won't hear much anew here. It's very similar in vision. There's a lot of great sounding Schumann sets around at the moment. While this one is still decent others do it far better for me (look through this thread for ideas). Oramo and Skrowaczewski are superb too.


----------



## Helgi

Thanks, I'll check out Tilson Thomas.

Listened to some of Sawallisch/Dresden today and it sounds great, definitely one to have. I've also been enjoying Ticciati/SCO, the brass and percussion are wonderful and I just love the sound of that orchestra and the energy.

Skrowaczewski is in the mail, hoping it will get here before Christmas.


----------



## Merl

Helgi said:


> Thanks, I'll check out Tilson Thomas.
> 
> Listened to some of Sawallisch/Dresden today and it sounds great, definitely one to have. I've also been enjoying Ticciati/SCO, the brass and percussion are wonderful and I just love the sound of that orchestra and the energy.
> 
> Skrowaczewski is in the mail, hoping it will get here before Christmas.


You have good taste, sir!


----------



## Helgi

I agree!!

Ha ha.


----------



## flamencosketches

Thoughts on Kubelik/Bavarian?


----------



## Itullian

Since you like Klemperer, have you tried his?


----------



## Merl

A Very good solid set, FLMCS. You can also pick it up dirt cheap on the secondhand market. I like the BPO set a lot too. Do you agree, Itullian?

View attachment 135379


----------



## Itullian

Merl said:


> A Very good solid set, FLMCS. You can also pick it up dirt cheap on the secondhand market. I like the BPO set a lot too. Do you agree, Itullian?
> 
> View attachment 135379


Sure do Merl.


----------



## flamencosketches

Itullian said:


> Since you like Klemperer, have you tried his?


I haven't! Thanks, I'll check it out. As much as I love his Brahms I expect I will find something to love in his Schumann symphonies. These works are just beginning to reveal themselves to me. I have two full cycles: Bernstein/Vienna on DG, & Sawallisch/Dresden on EMI. I seem to prefer the latter.


----------



## flamencosketches

Merl said:


> A Very good solid set, FLMCS. You can also pick it up dirt cheap on the secondhand market. I like the BPO set a lot too. Do you agree, Itullian?
> 
> View attachment 135379


I think my favorite local record store has the pair for three bucks a pop. I will have to pick them up when they reopen.


----------



## starthrower

I listened to some of the Tilson Thomas, and Herreweghe recordings. I like these a lot. I found Herreweghe's No.2 far more engaging than Karajan. A great recording!


----------



## Itullian

Great set


----------



## Granate

I'm so glad to have found this thread. I had already began my Schumann Symphony Challenge but it turns out that I was missing up to 11 cycles from here. That makes for an extra round.


----------



## vincula

One of the Schumann cycles I find myself spinni' on a regular basis is this one:

















Released on two separate discs on the Eterna/Edel label too. Easy to spot at a bargain price on the usual sites.

Regards,

Vincula


----------



## DarkAngel

^^^^ Get budget 10CD boxset out now with FK's Beethoven and Schumann cycles together (also fine budget price Tannhauser with our beloved Miss Grummer)

















I would like to get Itullian's Mehta Eloquence set but a bit too pricey at Amazon.....


----------

