# Beethoven Mid SQs



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Everyone rages about the late SQs, but I have No 8 playing now and it sounds amazing! What do you all think of the middle SQs?

:tiphat:


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

The quartet no. 10 op 74 is one of my favorite quartets. Full of energy and creativity. People call it the "harp" quartet which I think is a bad name for it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

#10 is up next!


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> #10 is up next!


The coda of the 1st movement is incredible.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

This Presto is amazing (10th).


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

The 8th is wonderful! And quite underrated too. I especially like the first and second movements.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

All his quartets are good and it is interesting to spend 2 or 3 evenings going through the complete cycle.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The 9th has always been a favorite. But Kerman, in his book on the quartets, is not impressed. He speaks of the theme of the fugue-like finale as "flatulent", which is evidently some sort of technical term!


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I will never forget, way back in college, walking with a music class between one classroom and another (the former's record player was broken), the professor handed a boxed set of the complete Beethoven quartets to a student to carry, and cautioned: "Careful, you're holding the greatest achievement of Western man."


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> I will never forget, way back in college, walking with a music class between one classroom and another (the former's record player was broken), the professor handed a boxed set of the complete Beethoven quartets to a student to carry, and cautioned: "Careful, you're holding the greatest achievement of Western man."


I think the early ones show a great influence from Mozart. He started breaking away into his own sound later.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

KenOC said:


> The 9th has always been a favorite. But Kerman, in his book on the quartets, is not impressed. He speaks of the theme of the fugue-like finale as "flatulent", which is evidently some sort of technical term!


Ken I have the Alban Berg Qt CD containing this work, I will see if I can detect any flatulence on it to night.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Dan Ante said:


> Ken I have the Alban Berg Qt CD containing this work, I will see if I can detect any flatulence on it to night.


:lol:

Please do inform all of us, we must know before his b-day is over!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Dan Ante said:


> Ken I have the Alban Berg Qt CD containing this work, I will see if I can detect any flatulence on it to night.


I suspect the only flatulence here is Kerman's. The nerve of the guy!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

KenOC said:


> I suspect the only flatulence here is Kerman's. The nerve of the guy!


Perhaps flatulence is not a bad thing in a genius. He did say "a rare flatulence," after all. That is surely of a different order from the common flatulence with which we are familiar. It may even be superior to the sort produced by Wagner in "Siegfried's Rheinfahrt."

But I fear to say more. I suspect we are transgressing the bounds of family-friendliness.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

I couldn't help myself, I apologize in advance...  :lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> ...It may even be superior to the sort produced by Wagner in "Siegfried's Rheinfahrt."


That would be truly huge! Nobody can fault Wagner for thinking small. People are keeling over and falling out of windows in Morocco, and newspapers are spontaneously igniting in private clubs in the Côte d'Azur.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I would be interested to know which versions of the middle quartets people have.
I have the Takacs Quartet recordings and find them very well recorded with incisive playing but perhaps a bit lacking in warmth


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Haydn man said:


> I would be interested to know which versions of the middle quartets people have.
> I have the Takacs Quartet recordings and find them very well recorded with incisive playing but perhaps a bit lacking in warmth


The Takacs are #1 in my book. If you need more warmth, look at the Italianos.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Haydn man said:


> I would be interested to know which versions of the middle quartets people have.
> I have the Takacs Quartet recordings and find them very well recorded with incisive playing but perhaps a bit lacking in warmth


I have the Tokyo SQ and it's breath-taking.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm a fan of the Guarneri Quartet recordings myself.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

arnerich said:


> I'm a fan of the Guarneri Quartet recordings myself.


This has got to be one of the greatest parts about being a Classical Music fan; there are so many different versions of the pieces we love, all bringing something new; perhaps this is a concept Gould took a little too far at times, haha!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I have the Quartetto Italiano set (also for the late quartets). Love them.


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

Haydn man said:


> I would be interested to know which versions of the middle quartets people have.
> I have the Takacs Quartet recordings and find them very well recorded with incisive playing but perhaps a bit lacking in warmth


The Cleveland Quartet. I have their late quartets too, though I haven't really committed to one version for those works yet. The Takacs have the best SQ15 in my opinion.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

arnerich said:


> I couldn't help myself, I apologize in advance...  :lol:


Mel Brooks must have written that episode.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I have:

Emerson SQ
Alban Berg Q
Vegh SQ
Tokyo SQ
Takacs SQ (a recent purchase)

ABQ has been my favorite for many years, but I like the Takacs a lot.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes, the coda of the 10th's 1st movement is one of the most rousing uplifting passages of music to come from Beethoven's pen, truly outstanding!


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## newyorkconversation (Dec 6, 2017)

KenOC said:


> The 9th has always been a favorite. But Kerman, in his book on the quartets, is not impressed.


Michael Steinberg's notes on the 9th (which I have in the "Beethoven Quartet Companion" edited by Robert Winter and Robert Martin) call the last movement "not only the most vertiginously virtuosic of all of Beethoven's quartet finales, but one that he would not equal in fierce energy for twenty years."

So there, Kernan!

(ps "vertiginously virtuosic" - pretty good alliteration!)

pps I've been listening to the Tokyo SQ middle quartets for the most part: brilliant performances.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Of the middle quartets, three stand out for me as masterpieces in three different dramatic genres: Op. 59#1 for the heroic, Op. 59#3 for the comic, and Op. 95 for the tragic. I've never warmed to Op. 59#2 or Op. 74. 

As for performances, I will be odd person out and recommend the Borodin Quartet (2nd line up with Kopelman on first violin). Their recordings of Op. 95 and Op. 59#3 are the best I have heard.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

I like the middle quartets differently. (Like means love).

I am embarking on a new adventure BTW. Instead of listening vertically (All of this composer, all of that composer, all Beethoven's quartets, etc.), I am trying to listen horizontally, what was in the air in Viennna at the time Beethoven wrote the middle quartets, listening across composer at somewhat contemporary times.

Hugely difficult for an untrained like me. I am making a table of who wrote what when and it is a lot of homework. (Unless someone has a short cut???)

But I think the comparison of the middle quartets to what else was being written and played at the time is more instructive, or differently instructive, than comparison to the late quartets.


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## newyorkconversation (Dec 6, 2017)

JeffD said:


> I think the comparison of the middle quartets to what else was being written and played at the time is more instructive, or differently instructive, than comparison to the late quartets.


Great project. You may want to look specifically at what Beethoven was composing at the same time. For instance, the notes I'm looking at on Op.74 point out that "in less than half a year he had completed three masterpieces, all in E-flat major: the so-called "Emperor" Concerto, the present string quartet, and the _Farewell_ Sonata, as well as two smaller piano sonatas, the wonderfully lyric F-sharp major Op.78 and its snappy companion in G-major, Op.79" -- that sounds like a great weekend of listening!


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

newyorkconversation said:


> Great project. You may want to look specifically at what Beethoven was composing at the same time. For instance, the notes I'm looking at on Op.74 point out that "in less than half a year he had completed three masterpieces, all in E-flat major: the so-called "Emperor" Concerto, the present string quartet, and the _Farewell_ Sonata, as well as two smaller piano sonatas, the wonderfully lyric F-sharp major Op.78 and its snappy companion in G-major, Op.79" -- that sounds like a great weekend of listening!


I have thought of that. It is an easier project.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

EdwardBast said:


> I've never warmed to Op. 59#2 or Op. 74.


I admire both of the quartets but especially op. 74. Quartets have a reputation for being such a serious high brow art form (all classical music seems to), but when I listen to op. 74 I just hear the composer and musicians having fun. I love that!


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I was recently listening to the String Quartet Op. 59, no. 1, and was struck by how incredibly beautiful the 3rd movement is. It seems to me that Beethoven reveals the beauty of his soul in this very intimate movement. Here it is played by the excellent Merel Quartet:






As for finest recordings of the Middle Quartets?--besides planning to buy the Merel's set when (& if) it comes out, I have most liked the Smetana Quartet (on Denon), Gewandhaus Quartet (on NCA), Takács Quartet (in Decca's latest remastering), Parkanyi Quartet (in Op. 95), Alban Berg Quartet (studio & live cycles), and the HIP Kuijken Quartet (Opp. 59 1-3)--at least, among recordings made during the digital era. The Borodin Quartet is also good, when I'm in the mood for an older, more romantic style of playing. (I also like the spirit of the Lindsay Quartet in their 1st recording of Op. 74 "Harp" Quartet, though they have some intonation issues.)

On period instruments, I've also liked Quatour Turner (Opp. 59 1-3, Op. 74 "Harp"), the Schuppanzigh Quartet (Op. 59/3), and Chiaroscuro Quartet (Op. 95)--though in some ways I think this music may actually sound better on modern instruments. At least, it doesn't surprise me that the Kuijkens, a period group, decided to record them on modern instruments. However, the Schuppanzigh Quartet does make a very convincing case for period instruments in Op. 59/3.









https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-St...&sr=1-1&keywords=gewandhaus+quartet+beethoven

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Co...d=1513545455&sr=1-1&keywords=takacs+beethoven


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Dan Ante said:


> Ken I have the Alban Berg Qt CD containing this work, I will see if I can detect any flatulence on it to night.





Captainnumber36 said:


> :lol:
> 
> Please do inform all of us, we must know before his b-day is over!


Well now what a pleasurable session I had last night and not one sign of flatulence in the work although in the 2nd mov I did detect a whisper coming from the direction of the cellist Valentin Erben but considering his performance it had to be excused.
Herr Beethoven can rest in peace as no carbon tax will have to be paid.
The performance by the Alban Berg Qt was first rate recorded 1979 it was an ADD CD and earned 3 stars from the Penguin Guide.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I heard all Razumovsky's today and like them a lot! I grew up (a bit) on the Alban Berg quartet playing late quartets and own all with the Cleveland quartet. Lately when I've heard Beethoven quartets, I've gone for op. 18, but I really should hear more of today's listening.


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## Jacred (Jan 14, 2017)

Recently, I have been very much into the 12th (opus 127). An elusive work, I must say, and one that did not receive its fair share of attention from me in the past.


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

Jacred said:


> Recently, I have been very much into the 12th (opus 127). An elusive work, I must say, and one that did not receive its fair share of attention from me in the past.


I've always found the coda of the finale to be surreal.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Jacred said:


> Recently, I have been very much into the 12th (opus 127). An elusive work, I must say, and one that did not receive its fair share of attention from me in the past.


It has been one of my favourites for a long time.


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## mahlerlover (Dec 18, 2017)

I guess the first part of this video doesn't apply, but the second half talks about my favorite part of the Op. 74 (Harp) quartet:


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## arnerich (Aug 19, 2016)

mahlerlover said:


> I guess the first part of this video doesn't apply, but the second half talks about my favorite part of the Op. 74 (Harp) quartet:


Yup, an extraordinary coda without question. Welcome to the forums!


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Everyone rages about the late SQs, but I have No 8 playing now and it sounds amazing! What do you all think of the middle SQs?
> 
> :tiphat:


I don't know the Razumowsky quartets well enough to comment with any confidence, but if op 95 is a middle period quartet then there is a performance which really stands out for me, by The Skampa Quartet.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

*Re the 9th*



Dan Ante said:


> Well now what a pleasurable session I had last night and not one sign of flatulence in the work although in the 2nd mov I did detect a whisper coming from the direction of the cellist Valentin Erben but considering his performance it had to be excused.
> Herr Beethoven can rest in peace as no carbon tax will have to be paid.
> The performance by the Alban Berg Qt was first rate recorded 1979 it was an ADD CD and earned 3 stars from the Penguin Guide.


I played the Emerson version last night, totally a more delicate refined approach but I have to say I prefer the Alban Berg.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Listening to No. 9 right now...good stuff!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

I listened to the Melos St Qt version (9) last night very very good better than the Emerson IMO and a good challenger to the Alban Berg, it was on a set of 6 CDs in 2 cases and only NZ$4.99 you can't get better than that.


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## Quartetfore (May 19, 2010)

I think that the Op.59 Quartets are a milestone in the development of the genre. While the Op.18 works are sort of a wrap up of the Classical era, the Op.59 seem to me break the constraints of the Mozart/Haydn era. The String Quartet has moved from social entertainment and taken a new path.


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