# The Impressionist Movement



## Mirror Image

IMPRESSIONISM​







The impressionist movement in music was a movement in European classical music, mainly in France, that began in the late nineteenth century and continued into the middle of the twentieth century. Like its precursor in the visual arts, musical Impressionism focused on suggestion and atmosphere rather than strong emotion or the depiction of a story as in program music. Musical Impressionism occurred as a reaction to the excesses of the Romantic era. While this era was characterized by a dramatic use of the major and minor scale system, Impressionist music tends to make more use of dissonance and more uncommon scales such as the whole tone scale. Romantic composers also used long forms of music such as the symphony and concerto, while Impressionist composers favored short forms such as the nocturne, arabesque, and prelude.

Musical Impressionism was based in France, and the French composers Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel are generally considered to be the two "great" Impressionists. However, composers are generally not as accurately described by the term "Impressionism" as painters in the genre are. Debussy renounced it, saying, "I am trying to do 'something different' - in a way realities - what the imbeciles call 'impressionism' is a term which is as poorly used as possible, particularly by art critics."[1] Maurice Ravel composed many other pieces that aren't identified as Impressionist. Nonetheless, the term is widely used today to describe classical music seen as a reaction to 19th century Romanticism.

Accordingly, many musical instructions in "impressionist" pieces are written in French, as opposed to the traditional Italian.

Impressionism also gained a foothold in England, where its traits were assimilated by composers such as Ralph Vaughan Williams, Arnold Bax, and Frederick Delius. Vaughan Williams in particular exhibited music infused with Impressionistic gestures--this was not coincidence, as he was a student of Maurice Ravel. Vaughan Williams' music utilizes melodies and harmonies found in English folk music, such as the pentatonic scale and modes, making it perfectly suited to the polarity-breaking ideals of the Impressionist movement, which began moving away from the Major-minor based tonality of the Romantic composers.

[Article taken from Wikipedia]

This seems to be a movement of music not discussed much in this forum for whatever reasons. It happens to be one of my favorite types of classical music. For me, it's up there with the best of the German Romanticism and the Russian Nationalism.

How important do you think this movement was on future generations of composers?


----------



## vavaving

Perhaps they shared something in common with Joseph Jongen, Cecile Chaminade, Jules Mouquet, Philippe Gaubert, Eugene Bozza, Jean Francaix, Henri Dutilleux, Pierre Max Dubois, Jean-Michel Damase, Marc Berthomieu, et al.


----------



## Mirror Image

vavaving said:


> Perhaps they shared something in common with Joseph Jongen, Cecile Chaminade, Jules Mouquet, Philippe Gaubert, Eugene Bozza, Jean Francaix, Henri Dutilleux, Pierre Max Dubois, Jean-Michel Damase, Marc Berthomieu, et al.


When one thinks of the impressionistic movement in music there are two names that come to mind first: Debussy and then Ravel. Everybody else is either a devoted follower of the style or an enemy of it.

The difference between Debussy and Ravel is pretty much night and day. Debussy's music is much freer and relies more on musical color. Ravel, on the other hand, while he adopted some of Debussy's principles, he was very much a man of many of styles. The major and most prominent difference between the two is Ravel's astounding orchestrations. Debussy wasn't much of an orchestrator, or at least to the extent Ravel was, in fact, many times Debussy would have other people orchestrate his pieces, but he was a genius in his original musical concepts.


----------



## Air

Personally, I've always been amazed at the resemblance between a Debussy tone poem and a Monet painting. Just enthralling!

Ravel was kind of Impressionist/Neo-classicist/Jazz, wasn't he? Or was he just, "Ravel"?


----------



## Mirror Image

airad2 said:


> Personally, I've always been amazed at the resemblance between a Debussy tone poem and a Monet painting. Just enthralling!
> 
> Ravel was kind of Impressionist/Neo-classicist/Jazz, wasn't he? Or was he just, "Ravel"?


Yeah, you look at a Monet painting and Debussy does really come to mind. Those swirling colors and kind of blurred imagery....quite beautiful.

Ravel created his own language very much like Debussy did I think. As I mentioned above, he was a man of many styles. His language and I understand much more now as I have become probably the biggest Ravel freak on this forum, is influenced by Debussy, Mozart, Couperin, Spanish music, and later on Gershwin and jazz. He really combined all of these influences and created an amalgamation of them all. Very original sound he had. Nobody sounds anything like him or Debussy.


----------



## vavaving

Mirror Image said:


> How important do you think this movement was on future generations of composers?


Gabriel Faure as well.



Mirror Image said:


> Everybody else is either a devoted follower of the style or an enemy of it.


Wouldn't that kind of go against the spirit of impressionism? You know, gray areas vs black and white...


----------



## Mirror Image

vavaving said:


> Wouldn't that kind of go against the spirit of impressionism? You know, gray areas vs black and white...


Perhaps I should rephrase my previous statement. There are two types of people when it comes to impressionism: those that are for it and those that are against it. That's really the point I was making.


----------



## vavaving

Well, impressionism doesn't seem to be an "either or" type of thing, as it were. For example, some composers have an impressionistic style among other styles.


----------



## Mirror Image

vavaving said:


> Well, impressionism doesn't seem to be an "either or" type of thing, as it were. For example, some composers have an impressionistic style among other styles.


What I'm saying is that people either were influenced by it or they weren't.


----------



## vavaving

Of course.

Its a wonder that long before the information age, music made its way around the world and nuanced everyone within earshot.


----------



## Mirror Image

vavaving said:


> Of course.
> 
> Its a wonder that long before the information age, music made its way around the world and nuanced everyone within earshot.


That's right.

Not to change the subject, but the way you're cataloging your collection is way too complicated.


----------



## David C Coleman

Mirror Image! ..that was the shortest month away from the forum I've seen. Nice to see you back so soon!..

Impressionism. Love Debussy, still getting into it properly..


----------



## Mirror Image

David C Coleman said:


> Mirror Image! ..that was the shortest month away from the forum I've seen. Nice to see you back so soon!..
> 
> Impressionism. Love Debussy, still getting into it properly..


Yeah, I couldn't stay away! 

David have you got into Faure, Dukas, Szymanowski, or Delius yet?


----------



## vavaving

Mirror Image said:


> Not to change the subject, but the way you're cataloging your collection is way too complicated.


Its an impressionistical methodology, you see...


----------



## Sid James

I am surprised that no-one, including the excellent article, mentioned *Henri Duparc*. Although he only wrote just over a dozen songs, these have become cornerstones of the French vocal repertoire. His last songs were written just when Debussy was beginning to make those bold steps in the 1880's. I think that if you listen to them closely, they undoubtably show elements of the 'impressionist' style, echoed in later vocal works, like Ravel's _Sheherazade_. Although Duparc lived until 1933, he was unable to compose due to a nervous condition. I think that he made an enormous, if somewhat understated, contribution to the movement, although he wasn't officially part of it.


----------



## Mirror Image

Andre said:


> I am surprised that no-one, including the excellent article, mentioned *Henri Duparc*. Although he only wrote just over a dozen songs, these have become cornerstones of the French vocal repertoire. His last songs were written just when Debussy was beginning to make those bold steps in the 1880's. I think that if you listen to them closely, they undoubtably show elements of the 'impressionist' style, echoed in later vocal works, like Ravel's _Sheherazade_. Although Duparc lived until 1933, he was unable to compose due to a nervous condition. I think that he made an enormous, if somewhat understated, contribution to the movement, although he wasn't officially part of it.


The reason nobody mentioned Duparc, including the article, is because he's not considered an impressionist despite your well-considered statements.

As I said, it all started with Debussy. He was the revolutionary who started the whole movement and influenced thousands of composers and musicians.

We can look before Debussy and see what was going on in music all we want to, but Debussy is the acknowledged creator of this beautiful style of music.


----------



## vavaving

Let's just call it Debussyism then.


----------



## Mirror Image

vavaving said:


> Let's just call it Debussyism then.


Actually, it is a widely acknowledged fact that Debussy disliked the term "impressionism" when applied to his music.

Read this little article I pulled from Wikipedia:

The application of the term "impressionist" to Debussy and the music he influenced is a matter of intense debate within academic circles. One side argues that the term is a misnomer, an inappropriate label which Debussy himself opposed. In a letter of 1908, he wrote "I am trying to do 'something different'--an effect of reality...what the imbeciles call 'impressionism', a term which is as poorly used as possible, particularly by the critics, since they do not hesitate to apply it to Turner, the finest creator of mysterious effects in all the world of art."[16] The opposing side argues that Debussy may have been reacting to unfavorable criticism at the time, and the negativity that critics associated with impressionism. It can be argued that he would have been pleased with application of the current definition of impressionism to his music.


----------



## Air

vavaving said:


> Let's just call it Debussyism then.


I agree. Why don't we just call it Debussyism and Ravelism then? The truth that is, each of these composers have very different styles.

The point Mirror Image was trying to make, I think, is that Debussy was the main revolutionizer of the Impressionist movement, and that Duparc, though with some impressionist aspects, wasn't a key figure in the movement. I personally feel that Faure was one of the most important figure influencing the entire movement as a whole, but I would still hesitate labelling him "Impressionist."

The term "impressionist", as the first post describes, is very vague, and though applies to a general group of composers, does not mean that there styles do not vary at all. After all, how boring would that be?!


----------



## Mirror Image

airad2 said:


> I agree. Why don't we just call it Debussyism and Ravelism then? The truth that is, each of these composers have very different styles.
> 
> The point Mirror Image was trying to make, I think, is that Debussy was the main revolutionizer of the Impressionist movement, and that Duparc, though with some impressionist aspects, wasn't a key figure in the movement. I personally feel that Faure was one of the most important figure influencing the entire movement as a whole, but I would still hesitate labelling him "Impressionist."
> 
> The term "impressionist", as the first post describes, is very vague, and though applies to a general group of composers, does not mean that there styles do not vary at all. After all, how boring would that be?!


That's absolutely true. Debussy was the key figure in this type of music, but there were composers like Duparc and Faure who showed "impressionistic tendencies" for lack of a better term, but are not talked about in the context of the movement because it was Debussy who fully fleshed these new ideas out and created an entirely new sonic world.


----------



## vavaving

airad2 said:


> The term "impressionist", as the first post describes, is very vague, and though applies to a general group of composers, does not mean that there styles do not vary at all.


The impressionist style is intrinsically vague. I think it applies most accurately to individual works, regardless of chronology. French composers tend to incorporate various styles in their collective oeuvre.


----------



## science

Mirror Image said:


> When one thinks of the impressionistic movement in music there are two names that come to mind first: Debussy and then Ravel. Everybody else is either a devoted follower of the style or an enemy of it.
> 
> The difference between Debussy and Ravel is pretty much night and day. Debussy's music is much freer and relies more on musical color. Ravel, on the other hand, while he adopted some of Debussy's principles, he was very much a man of many of styles. The major and most prominent difference between the two is Ravel's astounding orchestrations. Debussy wasn't much of an orchestrator, or at least to the extent Ravel was, in fact, many times Debussy would have other people orchestrate his pieces, but he was a genius in his original musical concepts.


This is an interesting analysis. At first glance, I'd have to agree completely. But I want to know, did Debussy orchestrate _La Mer_ and _Prelude to the Afternoon of a faun_ himself? If so, those works would have to establish that he could orchestrate pretty durn well, at least occasionally.


----------



## tdc

science said:


> But I want to know, did Debussy orchestrate _La Mer_ and _Prelude to the Afternoon of a faun_ himself? If so, those works would have to establish that he could orchestrate pretty durn well, at least occasionally.


Yes, he did. I find the orchestration decent on the two works. I believe Ravel once stated if he had the time he would re-orchestrate _La Mer_.


----------



## Arsakes

Debussy's Arabesque is really boring and uninteresting (Dvorak's Piano works are far better), like most of his other works ... The only good Impressionist is Ravel.


----------

