# Favorite Strauss Tone Poem



## Trout

According to wiki:



> The tone poems of Richard Strauss are noted as the high point of program music in the latter part of the 19th century, extending its boundaries and taking the concept of realism in music to an unprecedented level. In these works, he widened the expressive range of music while depicting subjects many times thought unsuitable for musical depiction. As Hugh MacDonald points out in the New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, "In the years prior to World War I these works were held to be in the vanguard of modernism."


Strauss's tone poems are the reasons that make him one of my favorite composers. The _Eine Alpensinfonie_ is not only my favorite tone poem but one of, if not, my favorite pieces of all-time. So, I would like to know which one is your favorite. Please, vote!


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## Stargazer

I voted for Tod und Verklärung, but Ein Heldenleben and Eine Alpensinfonie are certainly not far behind for me...it was hard to pick lol.


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## Xaltotun

I love them all but I gotta go with the _Alpensinfonie_. But why haven't you listed _Metamorphosen_? It's up there with his best.


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## Sid James

None of them, to be honest. _Don Quixote_, maybe, as it has the string players, so kind of a concerto. But generally I don't gel with his tone poems.



Xaltotun said:


> ...But why haven't you listed _Metamorphosen_? It's up there with his best.


It's different, more of a chamber work, and more of a reflection on real lived events - World War 2 - and not on literary things. Strauss let his usually rock solid mask slip with that one, and hooray to that. It's strongly autobiographical. I've heard it live 3 times, one of my favourite works for string orch.


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## elgar's ghost

Probably a toss-up between Alpensinfonie (incredibly evocative and atmospheric) and Don Quixote (I love what Strauss does with the 'theme and variations' form here). 

Symphonia Domestica is the one work in this category that pretty much leaves me cold - nothing against Strauss being happy and successful but there's a whiff of self-satisfaction/tweeness behind the premise which I can't relate to at all.


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## Vesteralen

I had to vote for Don Juan because of the three Strauss tone poems I have heard in life performances, it was the most rewarding for me. I've heard quite a few more in recordings, but Strauss is one composer I can appreciate in a live performance so much more.


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## Art Rock

Metamorphosen by far. That not being an option, Don Juan.


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## Ukko

Also Sprach Zarathustra is unique. If you don't hear it live, or from good low-frequency-producing speakers, the setup is lost and getting connected is difficult. I listen to it seldom, but I do connect.

Yes, it puts me in 'outer space', and yes, there is a 'presence' there. Some of us geezers are long-time SF buffs, which tends to make us spacey.


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## Clementine

Don Quixote for me. The writing is exquisite, but it also has a hardened edge to it that I don't get from the others. Plus the double-tongue muted brass, and the windmill sequence is extraordinary. And it's just more substantial of a work.


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## itywltmt

I like them all - hard to pick just one...

Zarathustra is a tad over-recorded IMHO, and I find there are few Alpine Symphony recordings that stand out as "the best".

As far as the conductirs go, in order, Bohn, Kempe and Karajan.


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## Manxfeeder

Sid James said:


> Generally I don't gel with his tone poems.


I have that same problem. My biggest block is, I can't always tell exactly what he's depicting, so I have to bury my head in the liner notes and hope I'm keeping up. It bugs me when I get lost.

Metamorphosen isn't a tone poem, but I agree; it's my favorite of his.


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## GoneBaroque

It was not an easy choice but I finally picked Eine Alpensinfonie over Don Quixote and Ein Heldenleben. Macbeth I do not know,. must look into it. It is an interesting quirk of fate that the last recording of both Sir Thomas Beecham and Sir John Barbirolli was Ein Heldenleben..


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## StlukesguildOhio

It's different, more of a chamber work, and more of a reflection on real lived events - World War 2 - and not on literary things. Strauss let his usually rock solid mask slip with that one, and hooray to that. It's strongly autobiographical. I've heard it live 3 times, one of my favourite works for string orch.

Personally I couldn't care less if a work is autobiographical or not. Ultimately the majority of all art of any real merit is about something beyond the artist's personal lives. Of course artists cannot help but put something of themselves into their work... but seriously there are far more interesting things to make art about than an artist's biography.

I'm glad that Shakespeare never let the mask slip.

By the way... I went with the Alpine Symphony... but ultimately I don't even look to the tone poems as his most important works. I am far more enamored of the songs and the operas.


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## Sid James

Manxfeeder said:


> I have that same problem. My biggest block is, I can't always tell exactly what he's depicting, so I have to bury my head in the liner notes and hope I'm keeping up. It bugs me when I get lost.
> 
> ...


I think that generally the late Romantic composers tendency for bigness does not go down well with me. I call it music on steroids. But I get what you mean. R. Strauss' tone poems are very dense works, both musically and in terms of meaning (eg. the narrative, as you say). I do like other composers' tone poems though, at least to more extent than R. Strauss' ones, eg. Liszt, Bax, and other programmatic orchestral works, eg. by Tchaikovsky.


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## Norse

I wonder if the Alpine Symphony had been played as much if he had kept the planned Nietzschean title 'The Anti-Christ'.


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## Sid James

StlukesguildOhio said:


> ...
> ...Ultimately the majority of all art of any real merit is about something beyond the artist's personal lives.


That's a pretty sweeping statement and I'll leave it there not to go off topic. But briefly, many of my favourite composers, their music is strongly autobiographical. Eg. Berg, Janacek, Brahms, Shostakovich, to name only four. But whatever.



> ...
> ...ultimately I don't even look to the tone poems as his most important works. I am far more enamored of the songs and the operas.


No surprises there, as he himself said that his instrumental works where basically fillers between one opera project and another. His passion was opera and vocal music. I think John Adams has said a similar thing. Some composers are more geared towards vocal music and the drama of opera. It's just their _modus operandi _or way of doing things.


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## StlukesguildOhio

I think that generally the late Romantic composers tendency for bigness does not go down well with me

What's ironic is that it is the Romantics who first put forth the notion of the work of art as primarily "self-expression".

...many of my favourite composers... music is strongly autobiographical. Eg. Berg, Janacek, Brahms, Shostakovich, to name only four. But whatever.

Oscar Wilde suggested:

_The artist is the creator of beautiful things. 
To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim. 
The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.
The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography...

All art is at once surface and symbol. 
Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. 
Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. 
*It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors.* 
_
How, for example, is Brahms' music "autobiographical"? His music is purely abstract. It does not sound like anything other that music. When a work of art is thought to mirror the artist, quite often it is the spectator... the audience that it really mirrors. You interpret Wagner's music as conveying Teutonic Nationalism, Antisemitism, and even suggesting fascism and the Nazi's. This has nothing to do with the music, and everything to do with what you bring to it. Nothing that I hear in Shostakovitch suggests his issues with the Soviet State and censorship... Nothing that I hear in Berg's Lyric Suite in any way conveys anything about his affair with Hanna Fuchs-Robettin. It is only when the listener approaches the music with a background knowledge of the artist's biography that one begins to interpret the work in an autobiographical manner.


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## Sid James

^^AS I said, I won't continue this here, but I've made a number of threads on this already, incl. this one:
http://www.talkclassical.com/14101-music-strong-autobiographical-element.html


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## leomarillier

This is a very difficult thread for me, as a lover of austrian germanic tradition! But I chose Don quixote. First, beacause even if Zarathustra is absolutely incredible and makes you forget everything you've been doing, it's a little bit "messy", these short sections, and even if the orchestration is more than brilliant, it's not as philosophical as Nietzsche's masterpiece, so not very profound.
I didn't chose Don Juan, for a harsh reason, because Strauss was very young, and if this work is already in Strauss' real style, and also very impressive, it's also a little bit superficial - even if the end is terrific and the whole work is impregnated by a sincere and idealistic feeling -like in Lenau's poem.
I didn't chose Till Eulenspiegel simply because I don't think it was composed in order to be compared with Strauss' other tone poems. It's very humoristic, and is maybe Strauss' best achievement in the control of short forms. But not serious enough... Sorry "Richard II".
I didn't chose Alpensinfonie, and though was second on my list^^ . It's really impressive, well controlled in a very original from, very Nietzschean (and i like that!), and Strauss spend 10 years of his life to compose this last hommage to the post-wagerian orchestra. It's really a damn awesome composition!
Heldenleben is really too much, even if Strauss seems to make fun of himself, it's a little bit too cinematographic, a bit easy, and superficial. It was supposed to be the end of an entire chapter of Strauss' life (the tone poem one), but it seemed that the composer wrote it too easily.

Don Quixote is a hybrid form (concerto? Sinfonia concertante? variations?), so well orchestrated, and where anything is given for free, every note has its dramatic purpose, and there is a lot of different moods which can't left the auditor unsensible: humor (the second variation is a masterpiece!!), bliss (the wonderful vision of Dulcinea), and wisdom (Coming to his senses again, Death of Don Quixote). Don quixote is a very humanist and profound, and also "sympathic" work. I absolutely like it!!


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## spradlig

My favorite is Don Quixote. I love Metamorphosen but I don't consider it a tone poem. My second favorite is Ein Heldenleben.

Why do people say that Also Sprach Zarathustra ends in 2 keys? The high woodwinds play a B major chord, then the double basses play C-G-C, but at the same time, some low brass play E and F sharp. And so on, alternating. So it really ends in B major (it begins in C major). Any other famous pieces that begin and end in different keys (not counting major vs. minor)? How about Moussorgsky's (sp?) Night on Bald Mountain?


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## clavichorder

Even though its not quite as lean as Don Juan or Til Eulenspiegel, nor deep and dark as Death and Transfiguration, Also Spracht Zarathrusta is my favorite to listen to all the way through. That one has just about everything in it, though it does verge on wandering at times.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Horn:
Da da da _daaa_ dum,
Da da da _daaa_ dum,
Da da da daah daah da da dee da dee dum.


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## RRod

No heckelphone fans to give Sinfonia Domestica even one vote :/ Also Sprach is my fav; one of those pieces I can whistle along the whole way with. #2 would be Don Quixote; dat ending E:


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## moody

RRod said:


> No heckelphone fans to give Sinfonia Domestica even one vote :/ Also Sprach is my fav; one of those pieces I can whistle along the whole way with. #2 would be Don Quixote; dat ending E:


I voted for "Heldenleben" but am very surprised not to see more mention of "Till Eulenspiegel" it is so clever and witty.
The Toscanini version was the first Strauss tone poem I heard, I then saw "Heldenleben" at London's Festival Hall and got blown into the thames----amazing.


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## moody

RRod said:


> No heckelphone fans to give Sinfonia Domestica even one vote :/ Also Sprach is my fav; one of those pieces I can whistle along the whole way with. #2 would be Don Quixote; dat ending E:


We have a heckelphone here it's called COAG.


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## Xaltotun

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Horn:
> Da da da _daaa_ dum,
> Da da da _daaa_ dum,
> Da da da daah daah da da dee da dee dum.


It's an awesome moment, but I think you should have put more a's in there... and exclamation marks... and increased the font! Now it just sounds like too fast and too low-calorie conducting


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## SiegendesLicht

_Eine Alpensinfonie_ and I don't care whether it has Nietzschean philosophy behind it or not. For me it is a glorious musical picture of the grand mountains (and the Alps are one of the most beautiful things that exist on this planet!), nothing beyond that.


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## maestro267

Alpine Symphony. The most evocative tone poem ever, I think. The stillness before the storm actually gives me chills. It takes you there.


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## realdealblues

I voted for Don Juan...it just sticks with me.


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## Tchaikov6

Thus Spoke Zarathustra... right from the epic beginning to the beautiful soft ending.


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## Bettina

Don Quixote, because it's one of my favorite novels and it's exciting to hear how Strauss depicts it musically. I especially love the windmill section as well as the part with the bleating "army" of sheep. The anti-heroic counterpart to Ein Heldenleben: a man who believes himself a hero, but he is actually tilting at windmills.


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## hpowders

For me it's Symphonia Domestica. I love Strauss' depiction of the chiming clock, the screaming baby, sleep and marital bliss.

I do believe the "clock" and "marital bliss" can harmonize very well together.

Whoops! I didn't realize this thread originated while Strauss was still composing!!


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> For me it's Symphonia Domestica. I love Strauss' depiction of the chiming clock, the screaming baby, sleep and marital bliss.


Agreed. I laughed at the idea of a "domestic" tone poem when I first read about the piece, but it turned out to be pretty epic. Leave it to Strauss to turn daily life into an epic "bigger than life" piece I guess, but it turns out well here.

Death and Transfiguration is quite good as well, but I went with Symphonia Domestica. There's so much hype around Also sprach Zarathustra and Eine Alpensinfonie, but I feel that both underwhelm a little bit. They aren't bad and are certainly worth a listen, but I feel that they could have been better. Obviously everyone has different opinions so I can understand why someone would go in a different direction.


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> Agreed. I laughed at the idea of a "domestic" tone poem when I first read about the piece, but it turned out to be pretty epic. Leave it to Strauss to turn daily life into an epic "bigger than life" piece I guess, but it turns out well here.
> 
> Death and Transfiguration is quite good as well, but I went with Symphonia Domestica. There's so much hype around Also sprach Zarathustra and Eine Alpensinfonie, but I feel that both underwhelm a little bit. They aren't bad and are certainly worth a listen, but I feel that they could have been better. Obviously everyone has different opinions so I can understand why someone would go in a different direction.


It kind of gets corny at times, but a live performance by Bruno Walter and a studio recording by Lorin Maazel make it work for me.


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## Klassik

hpowders said:


> It kind of gets corny at times, but a live performance by Bruno Walter and a studio recording by Lorin Maazel make it work for me.


I think I've heard the Maazel version. What do you think about the Mehta version if you've heard it?


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## hpowders

Klassik said:


> I think I've heard the Maazel version. What do you think about the Mehta version if you've heard it?


I've not heard it, though he's supposed to be a fine Strauss conductor.

Looks like I must play this work soon. I will be taking notes (pun intended) from the "marital bliss" section.


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## Heck148

I like them all...and really love some them...Don Juan, D&T, Till, Also Sprach Z, Heldenleben, Sym Domestica...hard to name just one - changes frequently - 
today might be DonJ, and ASZ....tomorrow - Till & Heldenleben...next day = ???


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## Pugg

I like them all with Don Juan fast becoming very favourite.
( this week)


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## Heck148

Pugg said:


> I like them all with Don Juan fast becoming very favourite.
> ( this week)


Don Juan is wonderful - there's a freshness, an energy - Strauss emerges as the "wunderkind" with this bombshelll


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## Merl

Don Juan for me. Some of Strauss' output doesn't register at all with me but Don Juan has always been my favourite. Thank you Mr Karajan.


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## Bill H.

Don Juan is great, but I think Ein Heldenleben is the one that I can go for if I had to choose only one. Perhaps that is colored by my favorite recording of ANY Strauss tone poem, the mesmerizing 1928 early electric, with Willem Mengelberg and the New York Philharmonic. Strauss dedicated the work to Mengelberg and the Concertgebouw, but the New York performance is often cited as the superior version.


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## Pugg

Aus Italien, conducted by Muti become a strong contender.


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## jdec

Pugg said:


> Aus Italien, conducted by Muti become a strong contender.


Will have to check that performance out. This work has not gotten any vote on this poll so far.


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## Pugg

jdec said:


> Will have to check that performance out. This work has not gotten any vote on this poll so far.


I like to swim stream upwards if you get my drift.


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