# Lise Davidsen voice size



## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Who has heard Lise live? From this clip would you think she can compete with Sutherland in voice size?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

I've heard her live a couple of times. The voice is big but has some issues. Most people nowadays won't have a heard a true dramatic soprano so I can understand why many are so excited but to me it sounds more like a lyric-dramatic voice rather than a voice to compare with Nilsson or Flagstad. I expect Sutherland's voice would have been bigger but she also suffered from a couple of the issues Lise Davidsen does, notably a less resonant bottom and sometimes clouded middle. Its a nice voice, it can be beautiful and it is certainly a big instrument but it lacks the openness to compete with the colossal voices of the past, nevertheless it's about the best we have these days in that repertoire.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Big, but not Sutherland.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

I have trouble making comparative size observations unless the impression was remarkable….eg..Battle’s Susanna was simply too small and Milnes forte was the loudest sound I remember. On one hearing live I believe that I would concur with 123. The role was Ariadne, so Straussian lyricism, in a satisfyingly full manner, was the goal and she delivered in a big way! But this is a role I know from Schwarzkopf’s recording so that model says we are not talking about full dramatic soprano. I am guessing that Schwarzkopf’s sound live would have felt at least a notch smaller than Davidsen just as Davidsen would have felt the same in relation to, say, Flagstad. But guesses!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Another huge voice is Radvanovsky. I have heard it said that singers standing next to her are uncomfortable because her voice is so loud.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> I have trouble making comparative size observations unless the impression was remarkable….eg..Battle’s Susanna was simply too small and Milnes forte was the loudest sound I remember. On one hearing live I believe that I would concur with 123. The role was Ariadne, so Straussian lyricism, in a satisfyingly full manner, was the goal and she delivered in a big way! But this is a role I know from Schwarzkopf’s recording so that model says we are not talking about full dramatic soprano. I am guessing that Schwarzkopf’s sound live would have felt at least a notch smaller than Davidsen just as Davidsen would have felt the same in relation to, say, Flagstad. But guesses!


Also remember that Schwarzkopf never sang Ariadne in the theatre, only on record. That said, the opera only uses a chamber orchestra so there is less sheer orchestral volume to penetrate than there is many of his works. It has been sung by lyric sopranos such as Janowitz and Della Casa.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

The 3 top soprano voices for loud high notes today (if that's your "thing") are Radvanovsly, Hernandez and Davidsen.


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Jaw wobble, spread top. Short career incoming.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

PaulFranz said:


> Jaw wobble, spread top. Short career incoming.


But wait, wait, wait…weren’t you the one who said we couldn’t predict short career while listening to someone in mid career?


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

ScottK said:


> But wait, wait, wait…weren’t you the one who said we couldn’t predict short career while listening to someone in mid career?


Indeed! But I was talking about old-school singers with a decent technical basis, not this modern garbage where you can diagnose fatal flaws with the sound off. I certainly did not intend to claim that there is no possible singing style that can be expected to shorten a career.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I mentioned her earlier with lots of positive response. I am hoping Amber Wagner who I heard in Brangane moves into the first rung of singers as her voice was a real Wagner voice: gorgeous, huge with lots of overtones. Someone here heard her in Aida and thought she was fantastic. Her voice was bigger than our Isolde, who had a very fine voice. It filled the house like Jane Eaglen did 2 decades ago.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

She has a nice upper voice and, in the right repertoire, can make a good impression, and she can be loud. Her first two aria recitals reveal her flaws as a singer, listen for yourself. The live *Ariadne auf Naxos *reveals her weak bottom, as does the *Fidelio *aria. Not fatal, mind you. just disappointing. Like Kiri Te Kanawa once quipped, “they don’t pay me for the low notes.”


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

MAS said:


> She has a nice upper voice and, in the right repertoire, can make a good impression, and she can be loud. Her first two aria recitals reveal her flaws as a singer, listen for yourself. The live *Ariadne auf Naxos *reveals her weak bottom, as does the *Fidelio *aria. Not fatal, mind you. just disappointing. Like Kiri Te Kanawa once quipped, “they don’t pay me for the low notes.”



I would be much less embarrassed about liking Kiri if she gave a **** about the lower half of her voice.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> She has a nice upper voice and, in the right repertoire, can make a good impression, and she can be loud. Her first two aria recitals reveal her flaws as a singer, listen for yourself. The live *Ariadne auf Naxos *reveals her weak bottom, as does the *Fidelio *aria. Not fatal, mind you. just disappointing. Like Kiri Te Kanawa once quipped, “they don’t pay me for the low notes.”


She's so weird! I attend Ariadne and I'm an immediate fan! She was phenomenal! I Hear the recording of voi lo sapete and go...okay, she clearly can't do it all and shouldn't be doing this.....hear the Tabarro cut on here, which I don't know but was sure was Puccini (my guess would have been Fanciulla with the costumes) and I'm going "okay...this is a better representation in italian opera"....then hear the Fidelio cut and go....."No...that's not the Ariadne thing that was working magic for you." I then listened to Ludwig do it because I didn't think the bottom was as bad as Mas is indicating. The question of the bottom immediately disappeared because what was unmistakable was that Davidsen, the soprano was starting to make a fairly wide sound in this material and Ludwig, the mezzo, was focused like any soprano would dream of being.

The other thing I thought strange was for her Met assignment this year to be the Marschallin. I like that she's in lyric terrain. But, as important as the voice obviously is, the Marschallin is not, to me, a voice first role its a role for a consummate vocal artist and I'd not heard indication that she was yet anything like that.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Here's Ludwig!


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

ScottK said:


> She's so weird! I attend Ariadne and I'm an immediate fan! She was phenomenal! I Hear the recording of voi lo sapete and go...okay, she clearly can't do it all and shouldn't be doing this.....hear the Tabarro cut on here, which I don't know but was sure was Puccini (my guess would have been Fanciulla with the costumes) and I'm going "okay...this is a better representation in italian opera"....then hear the Fidelio cut and go....."No...that's not the Ariadne thing that was working magic for you." I then listened to Ludwig do it because I didn't think the bottom was as bad as Mas is indicating. The question of the bottom immediately disappeared because what was unmistakable was that Davidsen, the soprano was starting to make a fairly wide sound in this material and Ludwig, the mezzo, was focused like any soprano would dream of being.
> 
> The other thing I thought strange was for her Met assignment this year to be the Marschallin. I like that she's in lyric terrain. But, as important as the voice obviously is, the Marschallin is not, to me, a voice first role its a role for a consummate vocal artist and I'd not heard indication that she was yet anything like that.


I agree that the Marschallin seems a strange role (as did Eva in Meistersinger). I haven't heard her live but I think she's fabulous.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Op.123 said:


> I've heard her live a couple of times. The voice is big but has some issues. Most people nowadays won't have a heard a true dramatic soprano so I can understand why many are so excited but to me it sounds more like a lyric-dramatic voice rather than a voice to compare with Nilsson or Flagstad. I expect Sutherland's voice would have been bigger but she also suffered from a couple of the issues Lise Davidsen does, notably a less resonant bottom and sometimes clouded middle. Its a nice voice, it can be beautiful and it is certainly a big instrument but it lacks the openness to compete with the colossal voices of the past, nevertheless it's about the best we have these days in that repertoire.


Thank you. So who would you compare her to?


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

nina foresti said:


> Big, but not Sutherland.


So i assume that you've heard Sutherland? Or is it more a guess? I'm just curious


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> Thank you. So who would you compare her to?


Maybe Caballe at her heaviest (not weight wise) or a Lyric dramatic like Gre Brouwenstijn. Probably with a little more heft in the upper regions but less down below.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Op.123 said:


> Maybe Caballe at her heaviest (not weight wise) or a Lyric dramatic like Gre Brouwenstijn. Probably with a little more heft in the upper regions but less down below.


And to think Caballe was considered a lyric at the time 😲 So what do you think of Radvanovsky? Probably the same? And who has the biggest voice that you've heard recently?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> And to think Caballe was considered a lyric at the time 😲 So what do you think of Radvanovsky? Probably the same? And who has the biggest voice that you've heard recently?


Caballe was considered a Lyric but her voice gained weight, especially up top, in her later years. Her tone also hardened. I have not heard Radvanovsky live and think it a very ugly voice. Again the middle and bottom aren't great. The top seems big, probably similar to Davidsen with a more metallic edge. Davidsen is the biggest voice I've heard, but records show that many singers of the past had better produced, more resonant voices. Flagstad, Tebaldi, young Callas, Ponselle, Traubel, Farrell, Milanov, Nilsson were undoubtedly louder.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Op.123 said:


> Caballe was considered a Lyric but her voice gained weight, especially up top, in her later years. Her tone also hardened. I have not heard Radvanovsky live and think it a very ugly voice. Again the middle and bottom aren't great. The top seems big, probably similar to Davidsen with a more metallic edge. Davidsen is the biggest voice I've heard, but records show that many singers of the past had better produced, more resonant voices. Flagstad, Tebaldi, young Callas, Ponselle, Traubel, Farrell, Milanov, Nilsson were undoubtedly louder.


Thank you very much!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> Caballe was considered a Lyric but her voice gained weight, especially up top, in her later years. Her tone also hardened. I have not heard Radvanovsky live and think it a very ugly voice. Again the middle and bottom aren't great. The top seems big, probably similar to Davidsen with a more metallic edge. Davidsen is the biggest voice I've heard, but records show that many singers of the past had better produced, more resonant voices. Flagstad, Tebaldi, young Callas, Ponselle, Traubel, Farrell, Milanov, Nilsson were undoubtedly louder.


No one has mentioned Ewa Podles who is still performing. I heard her live twice and her voice was enormous throughout her range. Her voice flooded the hall even at her baseline volume.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This is all well and good, but what is her dress size?


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> This is all well and good, but what is her dress size?


Well, she is a tall lady, 6'2 I think. She looks good on stage and wore some lovely dresses in the recitals we saw. She also seems like a very nice, down to earth person; we bumped into her after a recital. One thing I haven't mentioned which she does deserve credit for was a gorgeous, hall-filling, pianissimo A-natural in Desdemona's Ave Maria.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I’m less concerned with voice size than I am about the ability to sing in tune without a huge wobble in the voice that has you guessing as to the actual note being sung. I’m now too old to be bothered about finding great new singers. I’d rather look through a haystack for a needle! More chance of success! 😂


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> Caballe was considered a Lyric but her voice gained weight, especially up top, in her later years. Her tone also hardened. I have not heard Radvanovsky live and think it a very ugly voice. Again the middle and bottom aren't great. The top seems big, probably similar to Davidsen with a more metallic edge. Davidsen is the biggest voice I've heard, but records show that many singers of the past had better produced, more resonant voices. Flagstad, Tebaldi, young Callas, Ponselle, Traubel, Farrell, Milanov, Nilsson were undoubtedly louder.


Not any louder than Radvanovsky whether you happen to like the voice or not.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Not any louder than Radvanovsky whether you happen to like the voice or not.


I’ve not heard Radvanovsky live, nor do I wish to.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> I’ve not heard Radvanovsky live, nor do I wish to.


I actually like her but you are funny.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I actually like her but you are funny.


Wow!


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

nina foresti said:


> Wow!


You've heard both Lise and Sondra?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> You've heard both Lise and Sondra?


Are you talking to me? I have not heard either live. Just in my contests. For today I think they are both okay but I would never listen to either sing in a recording if I could choose any number of 20th century artists instead to sing the same material.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Are you talking to me? I have not heard either live. Just in my contests. For today I think they are both okay but I would never listen to either sing in a recording if I could choose any number of 20th century artists instead to sing the same material.


No i was asking Nina Foresti. And i agree. Their basic legato is just not good enough compared to 20th century singers. I find Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland to have even better diction. On records of course.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

tsquare07 said:


> I find Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland to have even better diction. On records of course.


Sutherland had better diction than ... someone?


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Sutherland had better diction than ... someone?


@Woodduck 
It's far from the best for sure, but i find the center of the (quite distored) vowels of hers (Sutherland) to have more focus and metal than that of Sondra's. And that focus results in a little more clarity. And when Joan doesn't try to make everything sounds like "o", i don't think it's too bad.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> I’ve not heard Radvanovsky live, nor do I wish to.


I have once apparently. In Alfano's *Cyrano *at Covent Garden. I say apparently because I remember going to see it, but can't remember her in it. I do however remember the allegedly forgettable Domingo. I remember he was pretty good.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> And when Joan doesn't try to make everything sounds like "o", i don't think it's too bad.


I've always heard it as a sort of 'aw', but the problem isn't just the vowel, it's also the lack of consonants in between.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I have once apparently. In Alfano's *Cyrano *at Covent Garden. I say apparently because I remember going to see it, but can't remember her in it. I do however remember the allegedly forgettable Domingo. I remember he was pretty good.


How was her voice compared to Domingo? Was it much bigger?


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've always heard it as a sort of 'aw', but the problem isn't just the vowel, it's also the lack of consonants in between.


Yeah. I Don't know if she lessens the consonants on purpose or she just couldn't because of technical deficiency.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> How was her voice compared to Domingo? Was it much bigger?


Well, as I said, I can't remember her at all. I doubt it was, otherwise I assume I'd have noticed.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well, as I said, I can't remember her at all. I doubt it was, otherwise I assume I'd have noticed.


Interesting. That means Placido voice in his prime was certainly not as small as people like to believe. I wish he would have had slightly different voices and phrasings for different characters instead of sounding "samey" in a a lot of things. Like how Gobbi or Callas did it. But his technique just didn't allow it i think.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> Interesting. That means Placido voice in his prime was certainly not as small as people like to believe. I wish he would have had slightly different voices and phrasings for different characters instead of sounding "samey" in a a lot of things. Like how Gobbi or Callas did it. But his technique just didn't allow it i think.


I saw Domingo at Covent Garden quite a few times. I don't remember ever thinking his voice was small. It was also really rather a beautiful instrument and he was a good actor. You'd go a long way to hear someone half as good today.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I saw Domingo at Covent Garden quite a few times. I don't remember ever thinking his voice was small. It was also really rather a beautiful instrument and he was a good actor. You'd go a long way to hear someone half as good today.


When did you see him? And the one with Sondra was in the 2000s if i'm not mistaken.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> When did you see him? And the one with Sondra was in the 2000s if i'm not mistaken.


On different occasions in the 1980s and 1990s. *La Boheme*, *La Fanciulla del West*, *Il Trovatore *(there was quite a fuss made about his decision not to attempt the unwritten high Cs) and *Otello *(really wonderful). I think that's it. *Cyrano *was the last time I saw him and I seem to remember thinking then that his voice was past its best.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> On different occasions in the 1980s and 1990s. *La Boheme*, *La Fanciulla del West*, *Il Trovatore *(there was quite a fuss made about his decision not to attempt the unwritten high Cs) and *Otello *(really wonderful). I think that's it. *Cyrano *was the last time I saw him and I seem to remember thinking then that his voice was past its best.


Otello?? 😲 Were some of his low and middle notes in that performance audible or drowned by the orchestra? coz a lot of people warned him to not take on the role in the beginning


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> Otello?? 😲 Were some of his low and middle notes in that performance audible or drowned by the orchestra? coz a lot of people warned him to not take on the role in the beginning


I don't remember that being the case. I don't know who these people were. I seem to remember that most critics thought his progress to Otello a natural one. You forget that for quite a few years he was _the _Otello of the day. He even made three recordings of the role. If he had been inaduible in the low and middle parts of the role (where most of it lies) I doubt he'd have been asked to sing it all over the world for the best part of twenty years.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If he had been inaduible in the low and middle parts of the role (where most of it lies) I doubt he'd have been asked to sing it all over the world for the best part of twenty years.


That's why i asked. Since you heard it live. I don't know whether he's enough or not. It's just James Levine told him to be careful when he wanted to do it in 1976. A lot of comment on youtube seems to be of the opinion that his voice doesn't have the volume of Vickers or Del Monaco. That's why i want to know how Placido actually fared since you witnessed it. Still i think the standard in his time was lower in the fifties. Scotto taking on Norma or Freni doing Aida for example. Not saying these 2 ladies have small voices, but the requirement for volume for these 2 parts were certainly much more in the 50s (Milanov doing Norma, or Tebaldi doing Aida, both with much bigger voices). Of course volume is not the only thing, but it's certaily needed. And i don't think Placido would have been casted as Otello in the 50s or before it.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> That's why i asked. Since you heard it live. I don't know whether he's enough or not. It's just James Levine told him to be careful when he wanted to do it in 1976. A lot of comment on youtube seems to be of the opinion that his voice doesn't have the volume of Vickers or Del Monaco. That's why i want to know how Placido actually fared since you witnessed it. Still i think the standard in his time was lower in the fifties. Scotto taking on Norma or Freni doing Aida for example. Not saying these 2 ladies have small voices, but the requirement for volume for these 2 parts were certainly much more in the 50s (Milanov doing Norma, or Tebaldi doing Aida, both with much bigger voices). Of course volume is not the only thing, but it's certaily needed. And i don't think Placido would have been casted as Otello in the 50s or before it.


I'm sure he'd be audible, most are. What we really want in a role like Otello is low and middle notes which are resonant and powerful. Del Monaco had a big voice and was far more than audible, Domingo was certainly a much lighter voice for those used to Del Monaco and Martinelli.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> That's why i asked. Since you heard it live. I don't know whether he's enough or not. It's just James Levine told him to be careful when he wanted to do it in 1976. A lot of comment on youtube seems to be of the opinion that his voice doesn't have the volume of Vickers or Del Monaco. That's why i want to know how Placido actually fared since you witnessed it. Still i think the standard in his time was lower in the fifties. Scotto taking on Norma or Freni doing Aida for example. Not saying these 2 ladies have small voices, but the requirement for volume for these 2 parts were certainly much more in the 50s (Milanov doing Norma, or Tebaldi doing Aida, both with much bigger voices). Of course volume is not the only thing, but it's certaily needed. And i don't think Placido would have been casted as Otello in the 50s or before it.


I never saw Vickers as Otello, but he is my favourite Otello on disc and on video. I doubt Domingo ever had the same sort of power, but his Otello was an example of what an intelligent singer can do with a role for which they are perhaps not naturally suited. All I can say is that, on the occasion I saw him (with Te Kanawa as Desdemona and Sergei Leiferkus as Iago) the performance was utterly overwhelming.

I'd agree that Scotto and Freni were on the light side for Norma and Aida, but then Milanov was hardly ideal as Norma either. The voice may have been bigger but her coloratura technique left a great deal to be desired. Truly great Normas have always been thin on the ground. Ponselle before the war, Callas after, and a handful of others who have made a reasonable stab; Caballé, Sutherland, maybe Gencer and Verrett. That's about it really. I'm told Radvanovsky has also joined this elite group, but video evidence hasn't convinced me.

As for Aida, I'd agree that there were a lot more sopranos who could do it justice back in the 50s, 60s and even 70s.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Op.123 said:


> I'm sure he'd be audible, most are. What we really want in a role like Otello is low and middle notes which are resonant and powerful. Del Monaco had a big voice and was far more than audible, Domingo was certainly a much lighter voice for those used to Del Monaco and Martinelli.


You put it perfectly. Voices before placido's generation are sooo much more than audible. But i think towards the end of the century, voices are simply just...audible enough. And now we have more inaudible voices.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I never saw Vickers as Otello, but he is my favourite Otello on disc and on video. I doubt Domingo ever had the same sort of power, but his Otello was an example of what an intelligent singer can do with a role for which they are perhaps not naturally suited. All I can say is that, on the occasion I saw him (with Te Kanawa as Desdemona and Sergei Leiferkus as Iago) the performance was utterly overwhelming.


Thank you for this



Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd agree that Scotto and Freni were on the light side for Norma and Aida, but then Milanov was hardly ideal as Norma either. The voice may have been bigger but her coloratura technique left a great deal to be desired. Truly great Normas have always been thin on the ground. Ponselle before the war, Callas after, and a handful of others who have made a reasonable stab; Caballé, Sutherland, maybe Gencer and Verrett. That's about it really. I'm told Radvanovsky has also joined this elite group, but video evidence hasn't convinced me.


I don't disagree with you. And like i already said volume is just one thing. And coloratura is another thing, specifically in Norma. Earlier i mentioned Milanov just to refer to standard of volume and power in earlier days compared to Placido's time, no more than that. Just volume. Since i asked you earlier about his audibility. Like Milanov mirroring Freni and Del Monaco mirroring Domingo. Excuse my English but I hope i make sense to you.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

tsquare07 said:


> @Woodduck
> ...when Joan doesn't try to make everything sounds like "o", i don't think it's too bad.


"When" does a lot of work there.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've always heard it as a sort of 'aw', but the problem isn't just the vowel, it's also the lack of consonants in between.


Well, that just about covers it, doesn't it?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

tsquare07 said:


> You've heard both Lise and Sondra?


Yes I have seen both. Sondra many times and Lise just once live. Both have good powerful voices but perhaps not on the scale of a Tebaldi or Nilsson for example.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

tsquare07 said:


> No i was asking Nina Foresti. And i agree. Their basic legato is just not good enough compared to 20th century singers. I find Beverly Sills and Joan Sutherland to have even better diction. On records of course.


There are so many beautiful soprano voics today that I see no reason to start mourning the fact that I cannot have my Muzio, Callas or Ponselle. I enjoy listening to opera singers and beautiful arias and I will be very happy with the group I have of today's choices.
Having seen so many operas in my time, at this point in my life I do not go for the opera -- I mostly only go for a voice I really must hear that attracts me like Bernheim, Radvanovsky, Oropesa, Tetelman, Gheorghiu, Calleja, di Donato, etc.
Thank goodness I am still alive and able to hear whatever crop is out there today and enjoy them without bemoaning the loss of the golden years. I srill have their cd's. Win-win situation. Life's good!
.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

tsquare07 said:


> Interesting. That means Placido voice in his prime was certainly not as small as people like to believe. I wish he would have had slightly different voices and phrasings for different characters instead of sounding "samey" in a a lot of things. Like how Gobbi or Callas did it. But his technique just didn't allow it i think.


I never once had a problem hearing Domingo live. The only time I was annoyed with his voice was late in his career when he decided to do Maurizio and it was a rather bad fit for his voice and he didn't really sing well.

There is an interesting story about the time that Domingo, whose high notes were sometimes a hit or miss for him, giving him agita. Schuyler Chapin, interim GM at the Met, tell about the time that Domingo was doing Manrico and was terrified that he would miss the high "di quella pira" note and asked for a second to sit in the orchestra and do the actual note when the time came. They acquiesced and lo, he was so comfortable knowing there was a cover for the note that when the time came, his voice rang out high and more beautiful than ever.

I remember an announcement at intermission when Domingo asked for indulgence because he had a cold.
A lot of this stuff is psychological.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I never once had a problem hearing Domingo live. The only time I was annoyed with his voice was late in his career when he decided to do Maurizio and it was a rather bad fit for his voice and he didn't really sing well.
> 
> There is an interesting story about the time that Domingo, whose high notes were sometimes a hit or miss for him, giving him agita. Schuyler Chapin, interim GM at the Met, tell about the time that Domingo was doing Manrico and was terrified that he would miss the high "di quella pira" note and asked for a second to sit in the orchestra and do the actual note when the time came. They acquiesced and lo, he was so comfortable knowing there was a cover for the note that when the time came, his voice rang out high and more beautiful than ever.
> 
> ...


Nilsson never had a teacher who understood her voice. It was only one time when she had a cold that she tried to sing over the cold that she learned the right placement for her voice. It worked for the rest of her career and she could still sing Hojotoho at 78 for Levine's gala.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

@nina foresti Thank you very much 👍


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Nilsson never had a teacher who understood her voice. It was only one time when she had a cold that she tried to sing over the cold that she learned the right placement for her voice. It worked for the rest of her career and she could still sing Hojotoho at 78 for Levine's gala.


She has the same teacher with Bjorling, Joseph Hislop, no?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

tsquare07 said:


> She has the same teacher with Bjorling, Joseph Hislop, no?


It was a while since I read her book. She had three teachers at the academy and none of them knew what to do with her enormous voice. It could have been. It has been 10 years since I read it. She said that she basically had to learn what worked for her on her singing gigs experimenting in real time. Singing over the cold was the big breakthrough when she acquired the Nilsson signature sound. There are people who may not like her sound but one can't say she wasn't a very skilled singer and despite having maybe the biggest voice of her day she could sing piano equal to Caballe.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It was a while since I read her book. She had three teachers at the academy and none of them knew what to do with her enormous voice. It could have been. It has been 10 years since I read it. She said that she basically had to learn what worked for her on her singing gigs experimenting in real time. Singing over the cold was the big breakthrough when she acquired the Nilsson signature sound. There are people who may not like her sound but one can't say she wasn't a very skilled singer and despite having maybe the biggest voice of her day she could sing piano equal to Caballe.


Very interesting how at the end of her career she insisted people to sing "in the mask". But then nobody could just copy that kind of sound she could make. She's really a freak of nature. Just like Ponselle


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I never once had a problem hearing Domingo live. The only time I was annoyed with his voice was late in his career when he decided to do Maurizio and it was a rather bad fit for his voice and he didn't really sing well.
> 
> There is an interesting story about the time that Domingo, whose high notes were sometimes a hit or miss for him, giving him agita. Schuyler Chapin, interim GM at the Met, tell about the time that Domingo was doing Manrico and was terrified that he would miss the high "di quella pira" note and asked for a second to sit in the orchestra and do the actual note when the time came. They acquiesced and lo, he was so comfortable knowing there was a cover for the note that when the time came, his voice rang out high and more beautiful than ever.
> 
> ...


When he sang Manrico at Covent Garden, I think for the last time, there was a big fuss made because he announced in the press that he would not be singing the top Cs. He admitted that they were now outside his range, but also metioned that, as Verdi hadn't actually written them, he woud revert to what Verdi wrote. I remember some people getting quite worked up about it, but I applauded his honesty and, when I went to one of the performanes, I can't say I missed the top Cs.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

tsquare07 said:


> So i assume that you've heard Sutherland? Or is it more a guess? I'm just curious


I saw Sutherland in Norma at the Met in 1970. Her voice was good sized in the first acts, but in the last act she almost sounded like a dramatic soprano. She and Bergonzi were fabulous together, vocally and dramatically. Two great singers who were not considered good stage actors, did it all with their voices.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

toasino said:


> I saw Sutherland in Norma at the Met in 1970. Her voice was good sized in the first acts, but in the last act she almost sounded like a dramatic soprano. She and Bergonzi were fabulous together, vocally and dramatically. Two great singers who were not considered good stage actors, did it all with their voices.


OMG!!!!! So nice to hear from someone here who likes Sutherland after The Art of the Prima Donna. If I post her here after that she gets crucified. May Santa bring you a good surprise for the holidays!!! Post more often please.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

toasino said:


> I saw Sutherland in Norma at the Met in 1970. Her voice was good sized in the first acts, but in the last act she almost sounded like a dramatic soprano. She and Bergonzi were fabulous together, vocally and dramatically. Two great singers who were not considered good stage actors, did it all with their voices.


Thank you. Is she the biggest voice you've heard? How would you compare her to Nilson or Gwyneth Jones? Or Eileen Farrell? Or even Callas?


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

Seattleoperafan said:


> OMG!!!!! So nice to hear from someone here who likes Sutherland after The Art of the Prima Donna. If I post her here after that she gets crucified. May Santa bring you a good surprise for the holidays!!! Post more often please.


Some people who dislike Sutherland are usually avid Callas fans or dislike her diction. IMHO, Joan Sutherland was one of the very greatest singers with one of the greatest voices, ever. Joan, along with: Price, Caballe and Nilsson were probably the greatest of the sopranos I ever heard at the Met. There were many other wonderful sopranos, but they were the best. No doubt Tebaldi had a great voice until the early sixties; however, I did not get to see her till the mid-sixties when her loud high notes often sounded harsh and were often off pitch. One of my favorite sopranos, who seemed to be liked by audiences, was Adriana Maliponte, who I liked better than Freni in roles they both sang at the Met. Having said that, I was very fond of Freni. Scotto was very good until she began singing roles too large for her natural voice size, My main problem with Scotto was the basic sound of her voice which I did not think was beautiful.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

tsquare07 said:


> Thank you. Is she the biggest voice you've heard? How would you compare her to Nilson or Gwyneth Jones? Or Eileen Farrell? Or even Callas?


I never heard Jones, live. Nilsson had a huge secure voice, especially in the upper register, as did Leonie Rysanek. Leonie's voice though was a bit weak in the mid and lower registers. Regine Crespin had a very large voice, that was erratic in the upper register. I only saw Farrell once, in Gioconda, and was disappointed by the sound of her voice. For some reason, it did not sound that loud to me, but my opinion is a minority one. I would not say that Sutherland's voice was larger than the singers you mentioned but similar in overall size.


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## tsquare07 (Sep 22, 2018)

toasino said:


> I never heard Jones, live. Nilsson had a huge secure voice, especially in the upper register, as did Leonie Rysanek. Leonie's voice though was a bit weak in the mid and lower registers. Regine Crespin had a very large voice, that was erratic in the upper register. I only saw Farrell once, in Gioconda, and was disappointed by the sound of her voice. For some reason, it did not sound that loud to me, but my opinion is a minority one. I would not say that Sutherland's voice was larger than the singers you mentioned but similar in overall size.


Thank you 👍


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