# Do 'opposites attract'?



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Do you strongly like two composers or two types of music that are (considered) very different in style?

Could you say why you do?

Is there in your opinion a factor that unites these two musics even though they are generally considered to be 'opposites'?

This is just to explore the diversity of tastes on TC, because I'm interested.

Thanks in advance for any replies. :tiphat:


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

What brought this thread on is that I was reminded by mmsbls's poll on the top ten composers that I hadn't listened to Mahler in a while. So I am listening to his no. 2 now, which I admit is his most Ingelou-friendly work. And I love it.

But all the same, it's different from the highly-patterned renaissance and baroque music that I usually go for. 

I am not sure that there is a 'uniting factor'. I think I like the patterned stuff because I enjoy the intellectual symmetry, and I like Mahler because it exercises my emotions more.

Of course, a lot of the music that I like - early music & folk in particular - also exercises my emotions. 

But Byrd & Mahler do seem very different, and appeal to different parts of myself.

How about you? :tiphat:


----------



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Doing UK piano exams you are required to cover a variety of styles. I prefer Baroque and early music- the highly patterned interweaving melodies. I also like folk for the emotional impact.

At the minute, I'm playing from three composers who appeal to me - Bach, Grieg and Gershwin.

The Bach is a three part invention (No. 5) full of melodic interlinking with a lovely relaxed feel to it. 

I usually play Grieg's folk materials but this time I'm looking at one of his nocturnes (Op 50 No. 4). Lots of notes and interweaving rhythms but only one basic melody - almost an étude. In many ways it betrays the poverty of the Romantic tradition which gave up melodic complexity for harmony.

I like Gershwin because he represents one strand of the American folk tradition - Jazz and ragtime. The Gershwin I'm playing at the minute - Prelude II (Blue Lullaby) - could almost be Baroque - a basic melody played against an ostinato bass. Not surprising as the 12 bar blues is as much a ground as a passamezzo or a ruggiero.

I like the folky Vaughan Williams, Grieg and Bartok as much as the dances of Bach or the coronation anthems of Handel. It's the music that attracts me, it doesn't matter who composes it or whether they're considered antithetical to each other in style or period.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Ingélou said:


> Do you strongly like two composers or two types of music that are (considered) very different in style?


I strongly like Beethoven and Mahler, but to me there is similarity. Both were ground breakers, transitioning from one musical era to the next.


----------



## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

answering the question: now I think I don't have such opposites especially so that I could love both equally.

but there is one thing is that I like listening to purely secular music , let's say easier to catch music like some operettas ( well, I put it as a very clear example operettas because they are supposed to be sort of superficial, but they are not it's only on a surface that they seem like that ) and at the same time I strongly tend to like sacred music , choral based works like cantatas, masses, requiems, etc

That's might be considered as contradiction , opposites...


----------



## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

I love different types of music that (some) _others_ might categorise as 'different'

I like Machaut and Stockhausen, I like Berlioz and Vivaldi, I like Schubert and Shostakovich, I like Ockeghem and Beethoven, I like Bach and Xenaksis, I like Brahms and Wagner, I like Liszt and Couperin, I like Bellini and Josquin ...... etc etc.

Why do I like them? .... Well, that is much harder for me to answer beyond 'I enjoy them' but they all have something 'interesting' in the way that they use sounds and they all offer a variety of valid responses in performance and listening


----------



## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

I'm a big Beethoven fan and at the moment I'm very into Debussy. Of the composers I admire most, those to are the most opposite.

And although their music seems very different, it's actually the same wonderful feeling when a composer's music slowly starts to grow on you. 

Beethoven can put a lifetime of pain and joy in 1 piece of music. Debussy is more the opposite, letting 1 brief moment last for a longer time.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I like Renaissance choral music - especially Josquin, Tallis, Byrd; Classical chamber music - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven; Wagner operas; 20th-century Romanticism - Sibelius, Rachmaninoff, Vaughan Williams, Copland; Strauss waltzes; Hungarian gypsy music; Portuguese Fado; Indian classical music; Chinese guzhong; Balinese gamelan.

I love Scottish bagpipes if they're far enough away.


----------



## Autocrat (Nov 14, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I love Scottish bagpipes if they're far enough away.


Preferably Scotland.


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Wagner's got the colour and the orchestra, Brahms got the structure and chamber music. They both have the generic Romantic thing for thick big climaxes though, and the whole German tradition behind them.

They try to marry in the Second Viennese School, rarelly in equal proportions, often one almost completely overrides the other. 

//

Gagaku has the gesture and sustained clusters that create a sense of atemporality, expansion and (literally) breathing, Gamelan has the strong layering of rhythms and tuning that generate a sense of euphoria. 

This contrast can be found side by side in Debussy's Nocturnes (Nuages vs Fêtes).


----------



## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Richannes Wrahms said:


> Gagaku has the gesture and sustained clusters that create a sense of atemporality, expansion and (literally) breathing, Gamelan has the strong layering of rhythms and tuning that generate a sense of euphoria.
> 
> This contrast can be found side by side in Debussy's Nocturnes (Nuages vs Fêtes).


I can see what you mean. The rhythmic layering and rhythmic dissonance play a similar role in Gamelan, and the Debussy.

Do you know if Debussy, or others like Stravinsky, Reich, Stockhausen, Boulez, and Ligeti made extensive studies of Gamelan? It seems that rhythmic layering, and music that unfolds based on more gradual changes of this rhythmic complex, played a much larger role in the 20th century and it is often remarked that this idea is similar to what is done in Gamelan, but did Western European-American composers arrive at it independently, or made direct analysis?


----------



## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

^ Reich studied gamelan in 1973 and 1974, and he makes reference to it in his notes to _Music for 18 Musicians_.


----------



## James Mann (Sep 6, 2016)

I'm lad of romantic era music, but my dear wife is a huge fan of modern music. It doesn't surprise me though, because she IS a pianist (she was studying when we had our son)


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

James Mann said:


> I'm lad of romantic era music, but my dear wife is a huge fan of modern music. It doesn't surprise me though, because she IS a pianist (she was studying when we had our son)


But do you yourself like 'opposites' in music? 
(Penalty point!  I don't think two people liking different things is quite what I meant.)


----------



## John T (May 5, 2016)

Whenever I listen to Bruckner 7, I perform 32 _fouettés en tournant_, while thinking of Beethoven's Christus am Ölberg.

(Guess I chose the wrong day to give up glue sniffin)


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

John T said:


> Whenever I listen to Bruckner 7, I perform 32 _fouettés en tournant_, while thinking of Beethoven's Christus am Ölberg.
> 
> (Guess I chose the wrong day to give up glue sniffin)


No, I don't think so - things should start to improve for you soon.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

There's music I "like" which covers a lot of ground, and music I don't particularly like, which also overs a lot of ground. The only uniting quality is that music I like is good, and interests me. The music I don't like doesn't hold my interest, and whether or not it's "good" is partly subjective, so little generalization is possible.


----------



## John T (May 5, 2016)

Autocrat said:


> Preferably Scotland.


Preferably Orkney. I'm not very far from the Scottish mainland:devil:


----------



## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

SeptimalTritone said:


> I can see what you mean. The rhythmic layering and rhythmic dissonance play a similar role in Gamelan, and the Debussy.
> 
> Do you know if Debussy, or others like Stravinsky, Reich, Stockhausen, Boulez, and Ligeti made extensive studies of Gamelan? It seems that rhythmic layering, and music that unfolds based on more gradual changes of this rhythmic complex, played a much larger role in the 20th century and it is often remarked that this idea is similar to what is done in Gamelan, but did Western European-American composers arrive at it independently, or made direct analysis?


Debussy got blown away by Gamelan at the Paris exhibition so much as to completely reformulate his notion of counterpoint, and had a long lasting amour with the Orient. The rest certainly became familiar with all sorts of world musics. My guesses are that (for Gamelan in particular) Messiaen, Boulez and perhaps Stockhausen too may have transcribed some of it for personal study.


----------



## John T (May 5, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> No, I don't think so - things should start to improve for you soon.


If they don't, I'll come to a sticky end.


----------

