# Deep Tracks Led Zeppelin - "Led Zeppelin" - Choose your favourites...



## Guest (Jul 9, 2018)

*Deep Tracks - Led Zeppelin - "Led Zeppelin" - Choose your favourites...*

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This is one of a series of polls in which you will be asked nothing more than to choose your favourite tunes from the album in question.

The number of selections that you will be allowed to choose will vary from album to album but a higher number than that found in usual polls of this nature will be allowed so that album tracks (which form the foundation of "classic albums") will not be overshadowed by hit singles.

Please choose up to five selections for this particular poll.

The tunes themselves (when available) will be found below the poll itself as links rather than as embedded videos due to bandwidth issues for those who wish to reacquaint themselves with a tune that may have receded a bit too far into the past to be remembered with the clarity that came when they were first released...

Next up is the eponymous debut album "_Led Zeppelin_" -

"It was first released on 12 January 1969 in the United States and on 31 March 1969 in the United Kingdom by Atlantic Records. Featuring integral contributions from each of the group's four members, the album was recorded in October 1968 at Olympic Studios in London, and established their fusion style of both blues and rock music.

Although the album was not critically well-received when first released, it was commercially successful, and critics have since come to view it in a more favourable light. In 2003, Led Zeppelin was ranked at number 29 on Rolling Stone's list of "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time", and kept that position after the list was updated in 2012.

In August 1968, the English rock band The Yardbirds disbanded. Guitarist Jimmy Page, the group's sole remaining member, was left with rights to the name and contractual obligations for a series of concerts in Scandinavia. Page recruited bassist John Paul Jones, vocalist Robert Plant and drummer John Bonham. During September 1968, the group toured Scandinavia as "The New Yardbirds", performing some old Yardbirds material as well as new songs such as "_Communication Breakdown_", "_I Can't Quit You Baby_", "_You Shook Me_", "_Babe I'm Gonna Leave You_" and "_How Many More Times_".

The month after they returned to England, October 1968, Page changed the band's name to Led Zeppelin, and the group entered Olympic Studios in London to record their debut album.

Led Zeppelin's front cover, which was chosen by Page, features a black-and-white image of the burning Hindenburg airship, photographed by Sam Shere. The image refers to the origin of the band's name itself: When Page, Beck and The Who's Keith Moon and John Entwistle were discussing the idea of forming a group, Moon joked, "It would probably go over like a lead balloon", and Entwistle allegedly replied, "a lead zeppelin!"."

Your commentary on any and every aspect of the album and especially any memories reawakened as a result of the poll is welcomed.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2018)

"_Good Times Bad Times_" -






"_Babe I'm Gonna Leave You_" -






"_You Shook Me_" -






"_Dazed and Confused_" -






"_You're Time Is Gonna Come_" -






"_Black Mountain Side_" -






"_Communication Breakdown_" -






"_I Can't Quit You Baby_" -






"_How Many More Times_" -


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

10)Over the hills....


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

But they all rip offs


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> But they all rip offs


Yes, but such wonderful rip offs .


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> But they all rip offs


What, the songs or the credits?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

elgars ghost said:


> What, the songs or the credits?


One goes with the other 

There was only ONE original song on Led Zeppelin (1969)
*ALL* other songs were STOLEN. The album is essentially a cover album of blues and folk songs but the original artists and writers were not given credit. This whole album with the exception of _Good Times Bad Times_ is blatant plagiarism.

Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - original by Joan Baez 
You Shook Me - original by Willie Dixon 
Dazed And Confused - original by Jake Holmes 
Your Time Is Gonna Come - the guitar riff sounds like the one in "Dear Mr. Fantasy" by Traffic, and the melody and chord progression of "Can't Find My Way" by Blind Faith 
Black Mountain Side - "Black Water Side" by Bert Jansch 
Communication Breakdown - "Nervous Breakdown" by Eddie Cochran 
I Can't Quit You Baby - original by Otis Rush 
How Many More Times - "How Many More Years" by Howlin' Wolf


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I looked up just the most recent thread/post on this subject of artistic "plagiarism": this is the quote by T.S. Eliot...

"Immature poets borrow; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different."

This is what, In My Opinion to be sure, Led Zeppelin did as Mature Poets in this Eliotesque sense: made the stolen works into something better. Others may hold other opinions, but Father Time will ensure that Zeppelin's versions are what the world will remember, and it is only through Zeppelin that even the memory of many of the allegedly plagiarized works will endure.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> One goes with the other
> 
> There was only ONE original song on Led Zeppelin (1969)
> *ALL* other songs were STOLEN. The album is essentially a cover album of blues and folk songs but the original artists and writers were not given credit. This whole album with the exception of _Good Times Bad Times_ is blatant plagiarism.
> ...


gee eddie you have to through Vegimite over the ice cream chzzz


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2018)

ldiat said:


> 10)Over the hills....


"Over the Hills and Far Away" is the third track from Led Zeppelin's 1973 album Houses of the Holy. It was released as a single, with "Dancing Days" as the B-side, in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Hills_and_Far_Away_(Led_Zeppelin_song)


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2018)

This is taken from a summary within a review of the book "Steal Like An Artist" by Austin Kleon -

"1. Steal Like an Artist

Being an artist means learning from those who came before you. Very few things in the art world are truly original.

Artists are always pulling inspiration from each other. We may not copy other artists stroke for stroke, but even if we did, that wouldn't make us great artists.

Great artists are able to pull inspiration from multiple sources. They can adapt and evolve their style to fit the project they are working on in the moment. They aren't stubborn and arrogant. They are always willing to learn from others to become better.

Stop believing your work is completely original. It is a detriment to your work and your craft. It stops you in your tracks and it forces you to be narrow minded.

Evolve with your craft and be willing to steal inspiration and ideas from those around you and those who came before you."

https://www.quora.com/What-did-Pica...he-really-say-this-or-did-someone-else-say-it

Odd but thought-provoking review written about an odd but thought-provoking book...

Not my intention to add fuel to the fire but there is equal validity to both sides of this issue and one's opinion can be influenced by whether you're the one doing the stealing or whether you're the one who's work has been stolen...

And in the spirit of fairness to the proponents of the other side of this issue -

An article which appeared in "Rolling Stone" magazine entitled - "Led Zeppelin's 10 Boldest Rip-Offs" -

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/led-zeppelins-10-boldest-rip-offs-223419/

and a Wikipedia entry entitled - "List of Led Zeppelin songs written or inspired by others" -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Led_Zeppelin_songs_written_or_inspired_by_others

and a three page thread written by "FruitToAttractBears" entitled - "There was only ONE original song on Led Zeppelin (1969)" which appeared on prince.org - "independent and unofficial Prince fan community site" -

http://prince.org/msg/8/232424


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Good Times, Bad Times is the best track. Jimmy Page is a riffmeister, arranger and producer. Obviously Plant hadn't come up with any vocal melodies at this point, so they arranged a bunch of other tunes.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

They were a good band but jeeze Jimmy got away with Blue murder on that first album............


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> They were a good band but jeeze Jimmy got away with Blue murder on that first album............


I'm not sure he got away with murder, but certainly they got away with plagiarism. I'm not sure what Blue murder is. In most cases, Led Zeppelin improved the songs and made them their own. That said, their debut album was one of my least favourite albums. Good Times Bad Times and Dazed and Confused are pretty good. I haven't listened to the complete album in years. Next October I will have a 50 year tribute, I'll play all of their albums. It's been half a century since the birth of Led Zeppelin.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

senza sordino said:


> I'm not sure he got away with murder, but certainly they got away with plagiarism. I'm not sure what Blue murder is. In most cases, Led Zeppelin improved the songs and made them their own. That said, their debut album was one of my least favourite albums. Good Times Bad Times and Dazed and Confused are pretty good. I haven't listened to the complete album in years. Next October I will have a 50 year tribute, I'll play all of their albums. It's been half a century since the birth of Led Zeppelin.


Blue Murder - https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/blue-murder
Original Dazed and Confused (and Jake Holmes still has not got full credit for it)

In June 2010, Holmes brought suit against Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page for copyright infringement, claiming to have written and recorded "Dazed and Confused" two years before it appeared on Led Zeppelin's debut album. In court documents Holmes cited a 1967 copyright registration for "Dazed and Confused" which was renewed in 1995.[SUP][8][/SUP] The case was "dismissed with prejudice"[SUP][a][/SUP] on January 17, 2012 after the parties reached an undisclosed settlement out of court in the fall of 2011.[SUP][10][/SUP] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm not defending Jimmy Page for ripping off the riffs. But why did it take so long for the plaintiffs to sue the band? That was part of the judge's reason against the band Spirit. Recently when the leader of the band died his estate decided to go after Led Zeppelin, about 45 years after Stairway to Heaven was first released.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

senza sordino said:


> I'm not sure he got away with murder, but certainly they got away with plagiarism. I'm not sure what Blue murder is. In most cases, Led Zeppelin improved the songs and made them their own. That said, their debut album was one of my least favourite albums. Good Times Bad Times and Dazed and Confused are pretty good. I haven't listened to the complete album in years. Next October I will have a 50 year tribute, I'll play all of their albums. It's been half a century since the birth of Led Zeppelin.


The variety of human experience. Led Zep I is my personal favorite both for the sheer number of great tracks (stolen and improved/"Zeppelinized") and for my memory of its initial impact; like _Are You Experienced?_ by Jimi, Led Zep I was unprecedented--a whole new approach to rock texture: an equivalent to Phil Spector's Wall of Sound--the sonic space is filled with almost-always-new and fresh sounds, and is not just a rhythm track-plus-guitar accompanying the singer's lyrics. And such singing!


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## Ivan Smith (Jun 11, 2018)

But was it not similar in concept to Geoffrey Arnold Becks *Truth*

Containing "You Shook Me" by Willie Dixon, J. B. Lenoir

and "Beck's Bolero" by Jimmy Page, featuring Jimmy, Jeff, Keith Moon and John Paul Jones who later agreed that the line up was a first attempt at what became Led Zeppelin..................................


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2018)

This is really quite an interesting article (although the "multiple issues" warning is valid) -

Music Plagiarism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_plagiarism

One quote from the article - * Folk tradition*

"The issue of plagiarism in folk music is problematic as copying and not crediting songs was common. Noted blues author and producer Robert Palmer states "It is the custom, in blues music, for a singer to borrow verses from contemporary sources, both oral and recorded, add his own tune and/or arrangement, and call the song his own".

"Folklorist Carl Lindahl, refers to these recycling of lyrics in songs as "floating lyrics". He defines it within the folk-music tradition as "lines that have circulated so long in folk communities that tradition-steeped singers call them instantly to mind and rearrange them constantly, and often unconsciously, to suit their personal and community aesthetics". "

"In 2012, when Bob Dylan was questioned over his alleged plagiarism of others music he responded, "It's an old thing - it's part of the tradition. It goes way back." Princeton University professor of American history Sean Wilentz defended Dylan's appropriation of music stating "crediting bits and pieces of another's work is scholarly tradition, not an artistic tradition". "

"In 1998, B.B. King stated on the issue, "I don't think anybody steals anything; all of us borrow.""

The three most fascinating sections of the article deal with "Successful suits and settlements", "Unsuccessful suits", and "Unsettled, alleged, and forgiven incidents".

Came across another interesting concept - "Cryptomnesia" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

"Cryptomnesia occurs when a forgotten memory returns without it being recognized as such by the subject, who believes it is something new and original. It is a memory bias whereby a person may falsely recall generating a thought, an idea, a tune, or a joke, not deliberately engaging in plagiarism but rather experiencing a memory as if it were a new inspiration."

"The precedent in United States copyright law, since 1976, has been to treat alleged cryptomnesia no differently from deliberate plagiarism. The seminal case is Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music, where the publisher of "He's So Fine," written and composed by Ronald Mack, demonstrated to the court that George Harrison borrowed substantial portions of his song "My Sweet Lord" from "He's So Fine." The Court imposed damages despite a claim that the copying was subconscious. The ruling was upheld by the Second Circuit in ABKCO Music v. Harrisongs Music, and the case Three Boys Music v. Michael Bolton, upheld by the Ninth Circuit, affirmed the principle."


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## Ivan Smith (Jun 11, 2018)

Men at Work got done for Down Under and had to pay back millions as it ripped off (just part of it) the chorus from Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree. As accidentally exposed on the Rock TV talk show...............

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/men-at-work-down-under-lawsuit_n_999708


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ivan Smith said:


> But was it not similar in concept to Geoffrey Arnold Becks *Truth*?


Using this example, "similar in concept" can be applied to a very large percentage of all music and art ever conceived .


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I think it is a great album. The plagiarism is appalling, however, and I think all of the apologies for the thievery ^ ^ ^ are BS.

To correct Eddie's remark above: The Willie Dixon tunes were credited to their author and the attribution for "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" was "trad."


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

EdwardBast said:


> I think it is a great album. The plagiarism is appalling, however, and I think all of the apologies for the thievery ^ ^ ^ are BS.


This is aesthetic schizophrenia on a grand scale.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> This is aesthetic schizophrenia on a grand scale.


No, just the recognition that aesthetic judgement has little to do with morality. 

The original version of "Dazed and Confused," for example, is $hi† compared to the Zeppelin. I'm not saying LZ shouldn't have recorded it, only that they should have credited the poor schmuck who wrote it. Pretty much the same things could be said about everything they "borrowed."


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> No, just the recognition that aesthetic judgement has little to do with morality.
> 
> The original version of "Dazed and Confused," for example, is $hi† compared to the Zeppelin. I'm not saying LZ shouldn't have recorded it, only that they should have credited the poor schmuck who wrote it. Pretty much the same things could be said about everything they "borrowed."


But the list of rip offs by Led Zep is almost endless, they and Peter Grant had no shame. *Robert Johnson*, *Willie Dixon, The Small Faces, Muddy Waters, Joan Baez, Spirit, Bob Dylan, Howlin' Wolf, Albert King & **Jake Holmes*


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> But the list of rip offs by Led Zep is almost endless, they and Peter Grant had no shame. *Robert Johnson*, *Willie Dixon, The Small Faces, Muddy Waters, Joan Baez, Spirit, Bob Dylan, Howlin' Wolf, Albert King & **Jake Holmes*


Well, yeah, shameless thieves for sure.

Of course the Spirit thing was adjudicated and rightly decided in favor of LZ - which is not to say LZ didn't take a bit from "Taurus."


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> Well, yeah, shameless thieves for sure.
> 
> Of course the Spirit thing was adjudicated and rightly decided in favor of LZ - which is not to say LZ didn't take a bit from "Taurus."


But its the same for all of the above, Led Zep have only ever credit the original artists under the threat of heavy legal action. With Spirit and Randy California its an interesting case in where the estate too long to bring action really. 
With Jake Holmes, he had a mistaken belief that he could not sue based on some old Tin Pan ally protocols that he interpreted incorrectly (this was recently settled out of court) but if Jake had have pursued it in the early 70's he would have been a very wealthy back in the day- instead of only getting a settlement for Dazed & Confused recently.

Basically Led Zep are very luckly bast*ards to get away with what they have done for so long.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

> EdwardBast: "aesthetic judgement has little to do with morality."


I'll agree to that. Art would certainly be poorer if morality (yours? mine? theirs?) was an essential criterion for its evaluation. But in this case, we all appear to agree that the End justifies the Means. If not, then we cannot consider Led Zeppelin either a great album or a great group.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I'll agree to that. Art would certainly be poorer if morality (yours? mine? theirs?) was an essential criterion for its evaluation. But in this case, we all appear to agree that the End justifies the Means. If not, then we cannot consider Led Zeppelin either a great album or a great group.


Whoa there Trigger! I'm not ready to sell out morality wholesale. "End justifies the Means?" Scroo that! Why not: It's a great album by a great group and the Ends ought to have paid the Means instead of pillaging them?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

EdwardBast said:


> Whoa there Trigger! I'm not ready to sell out morality wholesale. "End justifies the Means?" Scroo that! Why not: It's a great album by a great group and the Ends ought to have paid the Means instead of pillaging them?


And don't forget the harm inflicted upon the Mud Shark population of Seattle too
Mud-sh-sh-Shaaaark﻿


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I like my answer that I posted in the Jimi Hendrix thread so much that I'll repost it here, now:

"We've discussed this "ripping off" of others' work by Page and Zep on a number of occasions. I forget the exact source and quote, but it was to the effect that mediocre artists borrow from the work of others but great artists steal outright. I hold (again) that Page et al stole the works of others and then transformed them into magical things of a different order of magnitude that brought an audience and an illumination to those works that they never would have otherwise received. To have been ripped off by Led Zeppelin will be seen to have been a rare gift indeed. I've compared it in result if not in magnitude with the wholesale ripping off that Herman Melville did in putting together Moby Dick."

It strikes me that those who wish to include talk of morality in discussions of art are careful to titrate the exact amount and nature of their moral strictures so that they arrive at just the right balance of both praise and shivering condemnation. That one must like some works of art just enough but not too much is both the result of and the necessity for such careful titration. The Wagner threads often show this same phenomenon.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I like my answer that I posted in the Jimi Hendrix thread so much that I'll repost it here, now:
> 
> "We've discussed this "ripping off" of others' work by Page and Zep on a number of occasions. I forget the exact source and quote, but it was to the effect that mediocre artists borrow from the work of others but great artists steal outright. I hold (again) that Page et al stole the works of others and then transformed them into magical things of a different order of magnitude that brought an audience and an illumination to those works that they never would have otherwise received. To have been ripped off by Led Zeppelin will be seen to have been a rare gift indeed. I've compared it in result if not in magnitude with the wholesale ripping off that Herman Melville did in putting together Moby Dick."
> 
> It strikes me that those who wish to include talk of morality in discussions of art are careful to titrate the exact amount and nature of their moral strictures so that they arrive at just the right balance of both praise and shivering condemnation. That one must like some works of art just enough but not too much is both the result of and the necessity for such careful titration. The Wagner threads often show this same phenomenon.


So your saying that Wagner was like Jimmy Page and a Rip Off merchant also


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> So your saying that Wagner was like Jimmy Page and a Rip Off merchant also


Eddie, Are You Kidding???


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