# Start me off on Bartok...?



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

I've heard a few snippets of Bartok and been quite taken: I'd like to explore further.
Could anyone recommend me either a beginner-friendly piece or two (and favourite versions), or a good affordable introductory box set?
Köszönöm!


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

You'll want to explore the works that are the most characteristic of him, so mostly works after the mid 1920s. There are relatively few.

I like his last four string quartets. They don't seem as stylistcally coherent as something like Schoenberg's last quartets, but many passages are modernism at its best. They can be rather complex contrapuntally, which I like, and they also use extended instrumental techniques, which I think Bartok is a master of. I've heard the Takacs, some obscure Hungarian group, and the Hagen Quartet. I haven't done much comparison, but the little I have done has led me to prefer the Hagen.

Perhaps my favorite piece of Bartok's is the slow movement of "Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta", used in Kubrick's "The Shining". I prefer the version used in that movie, but I'm not sure what that is. The whole composition is considered essential Bartok. This thread reminds me that I should give it another go now that I've started to appreciate modernism recently.

His "Concerto for Orchestra" is another late work that is considered essential Bartok.

Pretty much anything you'll find in a list of his works dated later than mid 20s is probably something you'll want to listen to.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I agree with Chordalrock. Pierre Boulez conducts the Chicago in excellent CDs (3) of The Miraculous Mandarin, Divertimento, Music for Strings, Concerto for Orchestra and some others. Deutsche Grammophon. Also look at the three piano concertos with Gyorgy Sandor and the Hungarian State Orchestra, Adam Fischer conducting. Authoritative. Sony Classical.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)




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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

His three piano concertos are some of the greatest in the 20th century repertoire. Their accessibility goes in reverse order. Listen to his second violin concerto as well, and of course the string quartets as mentioned above.


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## LHB (Nov 1, 2015)

^ Probably in my top 5 favorite pieces of all time.






The best entrance into his string quartets imo. ALL of them are high quality, but this one is the most accessible.






Essential Bartok listening. I personally prefer Miraculous Mandarin, but the Concerto is a bit more accessible.






This and the first concerto are some of my favorite piano concertos.

If I made a list of my top 100 favorite pieces, there would probably be 10-15 works by Bartok in there. He's probably my favorite composer.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I've shared this anecdote here before, but on the first day of my college music history class, I was sitting behind a self-styled rock star, long tresses, ragged T-shirt and all. The professor played the first movement of the Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta and explained what was happening. 

At the point at the end where the theme is restated, only backwards, the rock star turned to his friend, jaw dropping, and asked, "Why am I wasting my time with rock music?" 

You may have the same reaction. If not, it's a great piece anyway.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> I agree with Chordalrock. Pierre Boulez conducts the Chicago in excellent CDs (3) of The Miraculous Mandarin, Divertimento, Music for Strings, Concerto for Orchestra and some others. Deutsche Grammophon. Also look at the three piano concertos with Gyorgy Sandor and the Hungarian State Orchestra, Adam Fischer conducting. Authoritative. Sony Classical.


I love the Sandor recording as well. Used copies available at Amazon for a couple dollars. The Boulez Conducts Bartok box on DG is also pretty cheap from Amazon vendors. For 25 dollars you've got a great Bartok collection.

If you want Hungarian performances, Nimbus has a nice 6 CD box conducted by Adam Fischer. On sale at Presto Classical. http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/pr...work=&performer=&medium=all&label=nimbus&cat= But no piano concertos on this set.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks all! Very helpful. 
I have acquired a set of the three piano concertos, and will probably jump for either the Boulez or Fischer set - then onto the quartets. My ears and mind are open and ready!


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

@Steve Wright: I would begin my serious listening with the Concerto for Orchestra, as it represents Bartok's summing-up of a lifetime of work, and a life of courage and struggle. One of the finest final utterances of any composer, IMHO.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Concerto for Orchestra is Bartok at his most accessible, together with the third piano concerto. 

For the concerto Kocis is pretty good. The concerto for orchestra try Reiner who was a pal of Bartok's.

Personally I'd leave the string quartets till later!


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2015)

The first classical music I enjoyed was his six string quartets. I have other works by him but for me, I enjoy his quartets the most. But then I seem to be a bit of a quartet nut.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

His piano concertos and string quartets as already mentioned also his opera Bluebeards Castle:


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

His string quartets smell Flemish, no wonder it all ended up with Ligeti writing the Requiem and Lux aeterna/Lontano.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

The "accessible" Concerto for Orchestra has always bored me where as the "difficult" String Quartets 4 an 5 both had an immediate, visceral heavy metalish appeal.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> I've heard a few snippets of Bartok and been quite taken: I'd like to explore further.
> Could anyone recommend me either a beginner-friendly piece or two (and favourite versions), or a good affordable introductory box set?
> Köszönöm!


What snippets did you hear?


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Mandryka said:


> What snippets did you hear?


Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta, String Quartet 4. Also something else whose identity to my shame I can't recall...


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Steve Wright said:


> Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta, String Quartet 4. Also something else whose identity to my shame I can't recall...


All great pieces to get aquainted with. Don't miss the Concerto for Two Pianos and Percussion by Boulez.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

The Concerto for Orchestra can be enjoyed on multiple levels. The top layer sounds a bit like Saturday Afternoon Kodaly (who also composed music with layers, but not always). There are at least two more layers in the CfO to come back to. The violin concerto now known as the 2nd is a fine thing _and _easy to assimilate. The piano piece known as 'Out Of Doors' stirs the imagination well (note the section labels before listening). By that time you will probably be acclimated, maybe even ready for the 1st Piano Concerto.

[Ignore this recipe at your peril - you could end up like_ Dim7_.]


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

I just watched the Bluebeard's Castle video posted by Sloe, and it's excellent. If you also wanted to hear the opera on CD, I can recommend this bargain priced 2 CD set from Cantus Classics. Of the two recordings on there, the Ansermet is especially finely sung.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Bartók was an accomplished pianist and composed a fair number of piano works. If you enjoy solo piano, _Out of Doors_, mentioned by Ukko above, is particularly fine, along with his Piano Sonata and Suite for Piano. A complete 8-disc set is available played by Zoltán Kocsis.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I just watched the Bluebeard's Castle video posted by Sloe, and it's excellent. If you also wanted to hear the opera on CD, I can recommend this bargain priced 2 CD set from Cantus Classics. Of the two recordings on there, the Ansermet is especially finely sung.


Some people are probably sensitive for it being in German instead of the original Hungarian.
Since Bluebeards Castle is a bit difficult to stage it is certainly an opera that benefits from being filmed so the rooms can be seen in all it´s splendour.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

I have this recording of "The Miraculous mandarin" conducted by Pierre Boulez and I recommend it.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta, String Quartet 4. Also something else whose identity to my shame I can't recall...


Then I suggest you listen to those in full, especially the quartet and the music for strings percussion and Celesta. For the quartet you may want to seek out the CD from the Zehetmair Quartet.

As far as other music by Bartok goes, I think you may enjoy some recording of the trio for two pianos and percussion. And if you want to branch out, then the CD of piano music by Jerome Lewenthal.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

The First Movement of MSPC was a seminal moment in Music for me. It still is, and I prefer the Reiner/CSO recording


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

starthrower said:


> The Boulez Conducts Bartok box on DG is also pretty cheap from Amazon vendors. For 25 dollars you've got a great Bartok collection.


Have you compared the DG Boulez set to the Sony set? DG has more CDs, but I've heard that the Sony set has more fire.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

If you get the chance to pick this one up, it's worth having also.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Manxfeeder said:


> Have you compared the DG Boulez set to the Sony set? DG has more CDs, but I've heard that the Sony set has more fire.


I haven't heard the Sony set. In fact, I only have a couple of the DG's, but I like them a lot. I've got too many single discs and works to warrant buying a Bartok box at this point.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Balthazar said:


> Bartók was an accomplished pianist and composed a fair number of piano works. If you enjoy solo piano, _Out of Doors_, mentioned by Ukko above, is particularly fine, along with his Piano Sonata and Suite for Piano. A complete 8-disc set is available played by Zoltán Kocsis.


I have this box, and it's a great set!


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I cant believe no one has mentioned the Sonata for Solo violin BB 124 yet. One of those works where my chin just hit the floor upon hearing. Ralph Holmes or Leila Josefowicz either will do


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Badinerie said:


> I cant believe no one has mentioned the Sonata for Solo violin BB 124 yet. One of those works where my chin just hit the floor upon hearing. Ralph Holmes or Leila Josefowicz either will do


That's the 1944 sonata? (I don't do the BBs). I think it's great, but probably not comprehensible for a Bartók newbie.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Ukko said:


> That's the 1944 sonata? (I don't do the BBs). I think it's great, but probably not comprehensible for a Bartók newbie.


Perhaps, but it hooked me into Bartok when all I had previously heard was Bluebeard's castle.


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## wzg (Jun 17, 2013)

Mikrokosmos...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Thanks all - plenty to get stuck into here.
Had a mini-spree yesterday, so here's my listening for the next few weeks. As you might deduce, funds are not unlimited - but these all seemed well-reviewed as well as affordable!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> The "accessible" Concerto for Orchestra has always bored me where as the "difficult" String Quartets 4 an 5 both had an immediate, visceral heavy metalish appeal.


I am listening to the fifth string quartet now. Great I like music that stirs me up.


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> ...the "difficult" String Quartets 4 an 5 both had an immediate, visceral heavy metalish appeal.


I can appreciate your reference to heavy metal here. A couple of weekends ago, my wife and I were listening to Bartok's 4th SQ. As we listened to the cello passage that begins the third movement, I told her that the melodic line reminded me of some things by Steve Vai. She didn't hear it. 

The sheer, raw energy that Bartok evokes from four unamplified string instruments in the first movement of SQ 4 simply amazes me. His use of dissonant intervals, dynamics, and tempo changes is really something to behold.

Steve Wright, I'd suggest that you follow the advice of some of the above posters and spend some time listening to Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta. You might check out Bernstein's version... he conducts the fantastic first movement at a very slow tempo (a bit over nine minutes for the entire movement). But the result is outstanding.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Bluecrab said:


> I can appreciate your reference to heavy metal here. A couple of weekends ago, my wife and I were listening to Bartok's 4th SQ. As we listened to the cello passage that begins the third movement, I told her that the melodic line reminded me of some things by Steve Vai. She didn't hear it.
> 
> The sheer, raw energy that Bartok evokes from four unamplified string instruments in the first movement of SQ 4 simply amazes me. His use of dissonant intervals, dynamics, and tempo changes is really something to behold.


The last movement is the most heavy metal though.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2015)

Radio 3 lunchtime concert just finished:

Bartok SQ 4.

Performed by the Emerson Quartet. Muscular and blistering.

I need to lie down...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Steve Wright said:


> Thanks all - plenty to get stuck into here.
> Had a mini-spree yesterday, so here's my listening for the next few weeks. As you might deduce, funds are not unlimited - but these all seemed well-reviewed as well as affordable!
> View attachment 77670
> View attachment 77671
> View attachment 77672


Well, happy to report that my conversion to Bartok has been swift and complete. What a unique, wonderful sound world. Now finding that I need a dose of Bartok every day or so.
Esp enjoying the piano concertos and string quartets. 
For the latter, I'd now like to hear the *Takacs* or *Vegh*, but both are expensive. Does anyone know (or can anyone comment on) this set, below? 
Includes three of the quartets played by the *Vegh*, and a great deal of other good stuff. Wonder how it's so cheap (£12 for 10 CDs)? Maybe sound quality not amazing?
(Sorry for rather faint images)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> For the latter, I'd now like to hear the *Takacs* or *Vegh*, but both are expensive. Does anyone know (or can anyone comment on) this set, below?
> 
> Includes three of the quartets played by the *Vegh*, and a great deal of other good stuff. Wonder how it's so cheap (£12 for 10 CDs)? Maybe sound quality not amazing?
> (Sorry for rather faint images)
> ...


The sound on the two pianos and percussion recording is execrable. The mikrokosmos selection is OK, and it's always a good idea to hear the composer'so own performances. I'm not a great fan of the Vegh recording, esp in 4, because it's not modern and spiky enough for me, but of course you may have different ideas. I don't feel confident to comment on the other stuff.

Takacs's second set of quartets is good.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Let me also again put forward the three piano concertos as recorded by György Sandor and the Hungarian State Orchestra under Adam Fischer, on Sony. Sandor was an intimate friend of Bartok's, fully conversant with the concertos as conceived by the composer, and premiered the third concerto with Ormandy and the Philadelphia shortly after the score was ready following Bartok's death. Sandor, in the extensive notes that accompany the CD, inveighs against "savage, motoric brutality that is totally alien to Bartok's nature" that has become ingrained in many performances of his concertos, with the result that "Bartok's viril and dancelike energy degenerated into sadistic and destructive piano bashing". Sandor likely had the best insight as to how Bartok envisioned these works, and the recording is of excellent quality.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> Let me also again put forward the three piano concertos as recorded by György Sandor and the Hungarian State Orchestra under Adam Fischer, on Sony. Sandor was an intimate friend of Bartok's, fully conversant with the concertos as conceived by the composer, and premiered the third concerto with Ormandy and the Philadelphia shortly after the score was ready following Bartok's death. Sandor, in the extensive notes that accompany the CD, inveighs against "savage, motoric brutality that is totally alien to Bartok's nature" that has become ingrained in many performances of his concertos, with the result that "Bartok's viril and dancelike energy degenerated into sadistic and destructive piano bashing". Sandor likely had the best insight as to how Bartok envisioned these works, and the recording is of excellent quality.


I don't know the concertos but Sandor's first recording of Mikrokosmos Bk 5 and 6 is very satisfying.


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## Herman (Nov 12, 2015)

Oh, Bartók is one of the greatest composers in the world.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

I heard his concerto for orchestra a few days ago. I can recommend that.


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## Herman (Nov 12, 2015)

Sloe said:


> I heard his concerto for orchestra a few days ago. I can recommend that.


Yes, that piece's his masterwork. But his piano concertos and violin concerto are masterworks, too.

By the way, I'm Hungarian.


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

His name is Bela, but he's a man.


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## Herman (Nov 12, 2015)

Gouldanian said:


> His name is Bela, but he's a man.


Yes, his name is Béla. We spell his name: Béla. Bartók Béla in Hungarian.


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

Herman said:


> Yes, his name is Béla. We spell his name: Béla. Bartók Béla in Hungarian.


That was my dark sarcasm moment of the day. In all seriousness, I respect him tons as a composer.


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