# Gender member blender



## Guest (May 10, 2015)

OK blender is probably not the right word, but this is the place to talk about member gender in respect of posting. Stuff about style, content, name, avatar, whatever.

So sez this male.


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

Avatars that don't match your gender. What's that all about, are you trying to destroy the very fabric of society? Explain yourself!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

We 'effectively' eunuchs demand equal consideration.


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

Ukko said:


> We 'effectively' eunuchs demand equal consideration.


Is this all of us, online?


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I am neither. I am but a hand.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I picked this Dawn Upshaw cover because I love the Cd and the cover. I don't think anyone here has ever mistaken me for a female.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't give much thought about a persons gender in context of this forum if they write interesting thought provoking stuff. If You are a bore, good looks or gender won't make You any more interesting any way! I also think it is rather fun that among the members of an internet forum like this there are person's who's gender are hard to decipher, humans who redefine the boundaries of what gender are and can be are usually more interesting then the stodgy conservatives who's life circles around the preserving the hegemony of the patriarchy. I always root for the underdog!

I picked my Avatar just because Nosferatu is a bloody god ole' black and white flick, much better then anything ever produced by Hollywood anyway... :devil:

/ptr


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> I picked this Dawn Upshaw cover because I love the Cd and the cover. I don't think anyone here has ever mistaken me for a female.


But only a poll could confirm your belief!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

dogen said:


> But only a poll could confirm your belief!


I think you mistake me for ArtMusic. :devil:


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## Guest (May 10, 2015)

Art Rock said:


> I think you mistake me for ArtMusic. :devil:


That's a whole different topic!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Ukko said:


> *We 'effectively' eunuchs *demand equal consideration.


I don't think dogen meant that sort of 'member blender'!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Figleaf said:


> I don't think dogen meant that sort of 'member blender'!


The poster is not the final authority on his or her or its own posts (it's called *post*-modernism).


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

dogen said:


> Avatars that don't match your gender. What's that all about, are you trying to destroy the very fabric of society? Explain yourself!


Yeah, I hate those people too. Nearly as bad as the ones with really puerile usernames.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

"hpowders™ " has been licensed out. All genders accounted for, even folks like Bruce Gender, the decathlon winner.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Lana Del Rey spoke highly of you and yo whole crew.


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## Guest (May 11, 2015)

Figleaf said:


> Yeah, I hate those people too. Nearly as bad as the ones with really puerile usernames.


You leave Dim alone now.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

dogen said:


> Avatars that don't match your gender. What's that all about, are you trying to destroy the very fabric of society? Explain yourself!


If men didn't use female avatars, I'd worry that we might not have enough images of Maria Callas on the forum.


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## Guest (May 11, 2015)

Do people "decide" a poster is male or female based on their posting style? (whether inadvertently or not)

(I realise gender is presumabley irrelevant to the actual topic for most topics on this forum)


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

You've been playing with.. ehem.. 'Kitty Powers' or something? :lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

dogen said:


> Do people "decide" a poster is male or female based on their posting style? (whether inadvertently or not)
> 
> (I realise gender is presumabley irrelevant to the actual topic for most topics on this forum)


As a matter of fact, from first hand experience I think avatars certainly have something to do with it, but posting style seems a little less so....unless it is intentionally ambiguous alongside a misleading avatar.


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

It took me a while to find this thread. I didn't want to ask for directions.


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## Guest (May 11, 2015)

Chris said:


> It took me a while to find this thread. I didn't want to ask for directions.


I feel deeply hurt this thread hasn't proved popular.

But I don't want to talk about it.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Dim7 said:


> The poster is not the final authority on his or her or its own posts (it's called *post*-modernism).


This is true. The post gets out there, it's on its own. Sometimes it takes only a few hours before the Team is communicating a twisted interpretation - exhibiting pride in so doing, btw.

[That's it! Team members become Analytically Proud! It must come with the job.]

{And now comes the analysis which will reveal that Analytically Proud is (somehow-because-it-must-be) an insult.}

Whee! How's that for grabbing the thread and running with it? Combined with finger-poking the Team's collective rib, too. My only defense is an allergy attack that induced sinusitis, the medication for which causes (temporary?) insanity.

mea culpa


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## SarahNorthman (Nov 19, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I don't think dogen meant that sort of 'member blender'!


Oh Figleaf, this post seriously made my DAY!


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## Cheyenne (Aug 6, 2012)

Art Rock said:


> I picked this Dawn Upshaw cover because I love the Cd and the cover. I don't think anyone here has ever mistaken me for a female.


I actualy always thought the person in your avatar was a man  Didn't see the Dawn Upshaw in the corner either!

On the Internet many people use avatars of anime-style characters, and usually women too. ComposerOfAvantGarde once had one like it and it made me think he was a girl (I wasn't the only one either!). That's why I made sure both genders were represented in my avatar!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

SarahNorthman said:


> Oh Figleaf, this post seriously made my DAY!


In my case it destroyed my night.


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## SarahNorthman (Nov 19, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> In my case it destroyed my night.


I can imagine it would!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

This subject is quite interesting to me, so please forgive the long rambling musings.

I've spent a number of years in a virtual world even more interactive than this one, where gender, race or even species is anything you want. In that world I settled for being a beagle most of the time, largely because there was no sexual aspect or tension involved and I could converse more easily with all the genders and species without sexual tension getting in the way. It helped with my confidence, especially when many of the ladies -- or people representing themselves as such -- would usually start the conversation, finding my avatar "adorable." Well, it IS really well made though I can't take credit for that. (I hasten to add, in that world I am not part of the Furry subculture because I am not anthropomorphic. I'm just a beagle - life sized and quadruped and cannot even dance very well. But I am getting off topic.)

For a time in that world people would get all bent out of shape because one never knew if a female was really female or a really a pot-bellied hairy middle aged guy logging in from a basement somewhere in Arkansas. It got to the point the real-life ladies suggested asking these suspected guys what their last pap-smear results were, most guys not having a clue what a realistic answer should be.

I say, who cares? And how rude!

In the virtual world I have always reacted to others in whatever form they present themselves. If they are women in the virtual world, then they _are_ women to me. If they are friendly dinosaurs, or ambulatory mushrooms (yes there is such a thing) then that is how I respond to them. If they are jerks then I mute them and make them disappear from my version of the world, the 3D equivalent of ignoring. But then I was not looking for virtual sex. Even if I were, does it really matter? Virtual sex is still largely a one handed exercise. (To be fair I know more than one happily married couple who met in the virtual world, so I can see how gender could be important to some, but I can't imagine looking for a relationship in that environment on purpose! It should just happen of its own accord.)

On forums like TC there is a little of this cognitive dissonance, as dogen has put it, but to a lesser extent. Again it doesn't bother me other than slowing me down a bit, trying to be careful not to use many gender specific pronouns.

Having said all that the default in this situation is still probably "he" for me. I'm not wanting to come across as patriarchal or sexist, but in my part of the real world many women, while finding classical music nice, would prefer we get away from the computer and fix the leak in the bathroom sink like we promised.

So if the avatar and name is ambiguous I'll usually think of that TC member as "he" until corrected. If both avatar and name appear female, then that person is female to me until corrected. It has very little to do with the timbre of their posts or their musical tastes. You simply cannot presume any significance to those things.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

People can have their fantasy life if they want, but I'd have no reason if I discovered this to take anything they say seriously - or take they themselves seriously.

If I want someone's opinions or the benefit of their distinct life experience, I'd need it to be sincere to be useful. I'm going to get no grounded wisdom at all from their imaginary life, and there will be times when this is conveyed through the distinct experiences of gender. 

Nothing to do with looking for romance, its about looking for the juxtaposing of ones own experience with that of another - and that needs to be honest, not make-believe, or what's the point of conversing in a social forum.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I prefer honesty too. And I like to be candid about being female, after my childhood in a household where males were valued more highly. However, I understand that some women may feel vulnerable disclosing their gender, whether because of fear of harassment or because they think their opinions will be discounted or misread. 

I do also tend to be misled by avatars. But when someone does adopt an 'opposite' avatar, it is a salutary reminder that one should be cautious about interpreting things on the internet.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Guarded is understandable. And doubtless everyone has their areas, but they wouldn't fill in the blanks with make-believe.

What I should have added to my last post is: there have been a couple of people on TC I've noticed a few times making up life-story, and I've noticed it seems - at least from my purely subjective point of view - to permeate everything they do and say for the worse, this make-believe, and has confirmed what I'd previously felt without defining as an unreliability.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

SimonNZ said:


> there have been a couple of people on TC I've noticed a few times making up life-story, and I've noticed it seems - at least from my purely subjective point of view - to permeate everything they do and say for the worse, this make-believe, and has confirmed what I'd previously felt without defining as an unreliability.


Too true. I have noticed this disquieting trend also. It is a sort of intellectual dishonesty that subverts the purpose of Talk Classical. When I come here I enjoy the rapport of honest minded, intelligent conversation about a subject that interests me. The issue is, can one (or two) problematic posters proverbially spoil the rest of the barrel? Does their opinion on Atonality become suspect because their persona on TC is an unreliable fiction? I think it does, to put it simply, and my option is to use the "Ignore" feature. I dislike doing this, as it curtails my enjoyment of the forum to its fullest extent, but it seems to be the best thing to do. I am more a listener, or a "lurker" I suppose, more than a power poster, but even I notice this. Well, enough of this. End of rant.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

On a more serious note, while I like to know the gender of fellow posters because it's an unavoidable part of my social conditioning that I tend to define people partly by their apparent gender- their gender identity (online or off) isn't really any of my business and if a woman wants to present a male persona or vice versa, there's no harm done. (Unless they try to 'catfish' you, but that's another matter entirely.) Intellectual honesty is about arguing in good faith, and I've been angered sometimes by a lack of it here and elsewhere, but if someone wishes to adopt a persona it doesn't automatically invalidate their arguments or opinions here. Where to draw the line? I don't know, except that I'm fairly sure that online gender identity has absolutely nothing to do with it. We whose real world gender identity is unambiguous and conventional must be tolerant of people whose relationship with their biological gender is less conventional: our upbringing may incline us to regard them as eccentric and 'other', but they must not be confused with malicious fantasists, who are a different phenomenon entirely. I would consider the problematic type of fantasist whose life is 'an unreliable fiction' to include, for example, a hypothetical member who claims to have an Ivy League education while being apparently unable to write a grammatically correct sentence; however, even such a person would deserve to be a respected poster (fictitious biography aside) if his posts themselves had sufficient intrinsic value, however we would define that.

My own gender issues have certainly been laid bare on this forum! The Victor Maurel avatar was chosen without much thought, because I was researching his life and reading his books, and because he exhibited certain personal qualities I admire and wish to emulate: self confidence, intellectual fearlessness, elegance, idealism. (Of course it's always more complicated than that and he had plenty of character flaws, well known to Verdi scholars, as well.) His confidence and intellectualism are traditionally masculine qualities (ironically Maurel himself liked intellectual, assertive women and wrote in the 1890s of how women should pursue careers and interests beyond being a wife and mother) and it's possible that I subconsciously chose a male avatar to represent those qualities. I've certainly internalized a lot of misogynistic views in my life- from family mostly, then school and university- and these need to be rooted out and challenged. Perhaps this is why Ingelou is open about being both female and intellectually assertive- not that it should be problematic to be both of those things in this day and age- and I salute her for it. :tiphat: That said, I've grown rather attached to my male avatar and silly username- heck, even my boyfriend sometimes calls me 'Figleaf'- and even if I'm not around here quite so much in the future, those gender-inappropriate aspects of my persona will probably remain!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

dogen said:


> You leave Dim alone now.


If you're gonna call me "Dim" I guess I can call you "dog".


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## Guest (May 14, 2015)

Now I want to know about catfishing!

I pretend to understand discussions on a/tonality, but inside - I'm crying...


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

dogen said:


> Now I want to know about catfishing!
> 
> I pretend to understand discussions on a/tonality, but inside - I'm crying...


From Wikipedia: _On the Internet, a "catfish" is a person who creates fake personal profiles on social media sites using someone else's pictures and false biographical information to pretend to be someone other than themselves. These "catfish" usually intend to trick an unsuspecting person or persons into falling in love with them. _

On the one episode of the Catfish TV show I saw, a pretty young woman had become engaged to a young male model she'd met on social media but never seen in real life. The 'male model' turned out to be a young gay woman who was not conventionally attractive, and the 'fiancee', having discovered the deception, angrily set out to confront the woman who had hoodwinked her. I don't know what I'd have done if, meeting up with my boyfriend for the first time in real life, he'd turned out to be a woman!  'She' wouldn't have got any bedroom action  but since our online 'courtship' was totally platonic (unlike the 'Catfish' couple) there would be no reason why we couldn't continue, cautiously, to be good friends: true friendship is rarer than is often supposed, and some people you just want in your life, irrespective of confusion over gender and/or sexuality.


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## Guest (May 14, 2015)

Good lord the world's gone mental. If it was ever sane.


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## Guest (May 26, 2015)

Here you go: *Eight ads that shatter tired gender stereotypes*
http://www.theguardian.com/media-network/2015/may/26/eight-ads-shatter-gender-stereotypes


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## Guest (May 26, 2015)

TalkingHead said:


> Here you go: *Eight ads that shatter tired gender stereotypes*
> http://www.theguardian.com/media-network/2015/may/26/eight-ads-shatter-gender-stereotypes


Possibly because I see so few TV ads, the This Girl Can posters were completely lost on me as to what their message was.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> From Wikipedia: _On the Internet, a "catfish" is a person who creates fake personal profiles on social media sites using someone else's pictures and false biographical information to pretend to be someone other than themselves. These "catfish" usually intend to trick an unsuspecting person or persons into falling in love with them. _


So ... there might be a chance for some of us, then? :lol:


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

dogen said:


> OK blender is probably not the right word, but this is the place to talk about member gender in respect of posting. Stuff about style, content, name, avatar, whatever.
> 
> So sez this male.


I am male, as per my Avatar.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*"The human experiment has not been successful. Henceforth, all humans are forbidden to fornicate or fertilize. In approximately 125 years, better/worse/same experiment will commence."*


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