# Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.3



## Granate

*No.3 Results:*
Trash
35th: Horenstein BBC NS
34th: Matačić WSO
33rd: Barenboim CSO
32nd: Harnoncourt RCO
31st: Chailly DSOB

Decent
30th: Venzago BrnSO
29th: Asahina OPO
28th: Wand KRSO
27th: Szell ClO
26th: Matačić PO
25th: Solti CSO
24th: Knappertsbusch WPO
23th: Skrowaczewski RSOS
22rd: Haitink WPO

Good
21nd: Böhm WPO
20st: Jochum SKD
19th: Celibidache MPO
18th: Gielen SWR
17th: Haitink RCO
16th: Blomstedt LGO (1p)
15th: Haitink WPO (2p)
14th: Barbirolli HO
13th: Schuricht WPO (3p)
12th: Sinopoli SKD (4p)
11th: Karajan BPO (5p)
10th: Kubelík Sony
9th: Jochum SOdBR (6p)
8th: Knappertsbusch BaySO (7p)
7th: Szell SKD
6th: Vänskä BBC SSO

Very Good
_TOP5_ (8p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1889 Version, Ed. Nowak) (Live recording)
*Cond. Lorin Maazel, SOdBR, BR Classics (1999/2011 Issue Edition)*

_Huge, winning performance with controlled and paused tempi, thriving percussions and care for the highlights (opening, scherzo and ending). The only thing the recording needs is a more spatial sound, which Kubelík was able to get in his same Bavarian Audite performance._
*B-*

_TOP4_









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1878 Version, Ed. Oeser)
*Cond. Rafael Kubelík, SOdBR, Audite-BR (1970 Live recording / 2011 Remastered Edition)*

_Terrific sound for an actual studio version that did not make it for RCA then. Such a good release._
*B-*

_TOP3_ (9p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1873 Original Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Simone Young, HPO, Oehms (2006)*

_Warning: Excellent original version of the B3. The changes are notable mostly in the first three movements, but the weirdest is the Scherzo. Saving that, this is another top recording for Young and the germanic-sound Philharmoniker Hamburg, with that use of pauses in the first movement and the legatos. No strikes yet for Young!_
*B*

_TOP2_ (10p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1889 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Sergiu Celibidache, RSOS, DG (1980/2004 Issue Edition)*

_Celibidache brand and splendour. Not the typical 89 Nowak. The management of the strings brings something unique, and why not, more Celibidache shouts during conducting. Is the BKing here?_
*B+*

_*TOP1*_









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1889 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Klaus Tennstedt, SOdBR, Profil (1976/2005 Issue Edition)*

_Speechless. Sound-wise, performing-wise, shines over any other recording. It is the use of silences, the strength of the scherzo, the strings, everything under control. Do get this rare Tennstedt cd._
*B+*


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## Granate

I wanted to give tribute to a very special recording though:









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1889 Version, Ed. Schalk)
*Cond. Hans Knappertsbusch, BaySO, Orfeo (1954 Live recording / 2002 Remastered Edition)*

_The remastering does wonders in a mono recording perfectly able to pass over many stereos. It is one recording to really consider. Away from the top 5 but close, this becomes a reference._
*C+*


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## Heck148

Bruckner 3 is his first great symphony, IMO..

Haitink/RCBO was my first exposure...it is OK, Szell/Cleveland, and von Matacic/PhO [A great Bruckner conductor] are good versions - but my 2 favorites are :

Solti/CSO
Barenboim/CSO

great flow and contrast...the brass sonority is non pareil...unmatched...I give Solti a slight edge, he generates a bit more excitement esp in the finale. the final section is most splendid - one of those great "Bruckner moments" that he would develop further in his later works.


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## Pugg

Heck148 said:


> Bruckner 3 is his first great symphony, IMO..
> 
> Haitink/RCBO was my first exposure...it is OK, Szell/Cleveland, and von Matacic/PhO [A great Bruckner conductor] are good versions - but my 2 favorites are :
> 
> Solti/CSO
> Barenboim/CSO
> 
> great flow and contrast...the brass sonority is non pareil...unmatched...I give Solti a slight edge, he generates a bit more excitement esp in the finale. the final section is most splendid - one of those great "Bruckner moments" that he would develop further in his later works.


I second those.


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## Becca

If you haven't listened to the live recording of the 1873 version done by Yannick Nezet-Seguin and the Staatskapelle Dresden from 2008 - then I strongly recommend it.


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## Orfeo

I'll give Simone Young and her Hamburg Philharmonic an A-/A. Their take of this symphony in its original version is to me to most convincing one to date. The orchestra's execution is superb and Young's phrasings are very well judged.

That said, I'm surprised Tintner is not listed (or even Carl Schuricht).


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## Granate

Orfeo said:


> I'm surprised Tintner is not listed (or even Carl Schuricht).


Schuricht is the 13th in the rank. All I could say about the recording with the Wiener Philharmoniker is that it was pretty good, detailed and with a nice sound. However, the Wiener sound makes it a bit difficult to stand out from other versions. Although he is the 13th out of 35, which is very good, the best Orchestra for this symphony in my opinion was the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.

My Tintner list was reduced from 00 to 2nd, and I could have been encouraged to include the whole set, but my impression of the early symphonies compared with others... I'll pass. Sorry.

The other considered sets I did not include were Barenboim BPO (No Berliner sound anymore, please), Barenboim SKB, Inbal and Janowski. Maybe I pick them in the next several months after I have finished the Challenge. I know it is not fair and many times I regret it but I based my selection on comments.


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## Orfeo

Granate said:


> *Schuricht is the 13th in the rank*. All I could say about the recording with the Wiener Philharmoniker is that it was pretty good, detailed and with a nice sound. However, the Wiener sound makes it a bit difficult to stand out from other versions. Although he is the 13th out of 35, which is very good, the best Orchestra for this symphony in my opinion was the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> My Tintner list was reduced from 00 to 2nd, and I could have been encouraged to include the whole set, but my impression of the early symphonies compared with others... I'll pass. Sorry.
> 
> The other considered sets I did not include were Barenboim BPO (No Berliner sound anymore, please), Barenboim SKB, Inbal and Janowski. Maybe I pick them in the next several months after I have finished the Challenge. I know it is not fair and many times I regret it but I based my selection on comments.


You're right, my bad. Sorry.


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## Granate

*Tintner on Bruckner No.3 and final position*



Orfeo said:


> That said, I'm surprised *Tintner* is not listed...





Azol said:


> Many Tintner recordings of Bruckner's Symphonies are revelations. Especially 3rd and 8th. Cannot recommend those highly enough!











*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1873 Original Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Georg Tintner, RNSO, Naxos (1998)*

_Powerful and close to be outstanding even considering the lenght and the use of the original Scherzo._
*C+*

*No.3 Results:*
...
11th: Karajan BPO (5p)
12th: Sinopoli SKD (4p)
*13th: Tintner RNSO (3p)*
14th: Schuricht WPO (2p)
...

From now on I will follow up the rest of Tintner's set until the end. If I am listening to those first Barenboim recordings of Bruckner with the CSO or Wand Kolner tries, why shouldn't I "suffer" Tintner then?


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## Vaneyes

BPO/Barenboim (Teldec); Dresden/Jochum (EMI); VPO/Schuricht (EMI); SRSO/Skrowaczewski (Arte Nova). :tiphat:


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## merlinus

Has anyone listened to Jaap van Zweden's version with the NRPO on SACD?


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## Granate

merlinus said:


> Has anyone listened to Jaap van Zweden's version with the NRPO on SACD?


*18th after Blomstedt LGO*









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1889 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Jaap van Zweden, NthRPO, Challenge Classics (2011)*

_Rhythmic and powerful version with clarity and balance. The adagio could be improved._
*C*

For the record, this is a thumbs up for your point.


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## gardibolt

Granate said:


> *Bruckner*
> Symphony No.3 in D minor (1873 Original Version, Ed. Nowak)
> *Cond. Georg Tintner, RNSO, Naxos (1998)*
> 
> _Powerful and close to be outstanding even considering the lenght and the use of the original Scherzo._
> *C+*
> 
> *No.3 Results:*
> ...
> 11th: Karajan BPO (5p)
> 12th: Sinopoli SKD (4p)
> *13th: Tintner RNSO (3p)*
> 14th: Schuricht WPO (2p)
> ...
> 
> From now on I will follow up the rest of Tintner's set until the end. If I am listening to those first Barenboim recordings of Bruckner with the CSO or Wand Kolner tries, why shouldn't I "suffer" Tintner then?


The original Scherzo is the clincher for me. I like it much better than the later versions.


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## merlinus

Listened to Blomstedt/LGO last night. He uses the "original version," and moves along at a steady pace. 

Even though this recording does not plumb the depths of feelings nor reach the heights of glory, the SACD sound made it far more rewarding than other versions whose instrumentation and such is lost in the congestion and mud (e.g. Karajan).

Once again, this underscored the importance of excellent sound in Bruckner, for me...


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## Granate

merlinus said:


> Listened to Blomstedt/LGO last night. He uses the "original version," and moves along at a steady pace.
> 
> Even though this recording does not plumb the depths of feelings nor reach the heights of glory, the SACD sound made it far more rewarding than other versions whose instrumentation and such is lost in the congestion and mud (e.g. Karajan).
> 
> Once again, this underscored the importance of excellent sound in Bruckner, for me...











*Bruckner*
Symphony No.3 in D minor (1873 Original Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Herbert Blomstedt, LGO, Querstand (2010)*

_Good version of the original performace. An important characteristic is the weight of the high strings in the sound, in an attempt to make this more alive and vibrant._
*C*

Glad you enjoy it. I'm not going to make a fight of it. Happy listening!


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## merlinus

As I wrote, Blomstedt is not nearly at the top of my favorite B3 performances. He takes a more light-hearted approach than those I thoroughly enjoy, but the SQ was excellent. 

It did, however, remind me of the importance of sonics in Bruckner recordings. But that needs to go along with interpretations that convey depth of feelings and cathedrals of experience.


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## merlinus

Listened to Jochum/DG last night. Whilst the orchestra played very well, and the recording has excellent SQ, his more-or-less rapid approach missed the depths of feelings and heights of spirit which are so important for me in Bruckner.

Interestingly, much later in his life, in recordings with the RCO and Bamberger, he slowed down quite a bit, and in doing so was able to bring out the depths and nuances of the music much, much more.

A number of other conductors did the same, especially Celibidache and Giulini. And I am also reminded of Glenn Gould's two very different interpretations of the Goldberg Variations, the first when he was about 25, and the last near the end of his life.

There are conductors whose Bruckner interpretations never changed much during their careers, such as Karajan, which is why I am not drawn to them. If I was the same person at 50 as I was at 30, something would surely be amiss!


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## merlinus

Just listened to van Zweden/NRPO. Wow! A wonderful performance, with excellent sonics. The SACD is much better than the CD version in that regard.

One of the very best I have heard. Celibidache is also wonderful, but van Zweden mostly takes it at a faster tempo.


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## DarkAngel

merlinus said:


> *Just listened to van Zweden/NRPO*. Wow! A wonderful performance, with excellent sonics. The SACD is much better than the CD version in that regard.
> 
> One of the very best I have heard. Celibidache is also wonderful, but van Zweden mostly takes it at a faster tempo.


I placed an order at Presto UK for Zweden boxset (on sale) about a week ago, it will soon be mine.....


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## merlinus

My set arrived from Presto Classical on Thursday, and I have listened to nos. 1, 2, and 3 so far.


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## padraic

Shame Remy Ballot didn't make the list, that might be my favorite.


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## Granate

*After the Round-Up - No.3*

*No.3 Results:*

Trash
56th: Horenstein BBC NS
55th: Matačić WSO
54th: Barenboim CSO
53rd: Harnoncourt RCO
52nd: Chailly DSOB

Decent
*51st:* Donnányi ClO
50th: Venzago BrnSO
*49th:* Jansons RCO
48th: Asahina OPO JJ
*47th:* Wand SOdNDR
46th: Wand KRSO
*45th:* Paternostro WPR
*44th:* Nelsons LGO
*43rd:* Janowski OSR
42nd: Szell ClO
*41st:* 27th: Matačić PO
*40th:* Sieghart BOL
39th: Solti CSO
*38th:* Skrowaczewski LPO
*37th:* Inbal RSOF
*36th:* Rozhdestvensky USSR Nowak 1889
35th: Knappertsbusch WPO
*34th:* Lim KSO
33rd: Skrowaczewski RSOS
*32nd:* Kegel LRSO
31st: Haitink WPO

Good
30th: Böhm WPO
29th: Jochum SKD
28th: Celibidache MPO
*27th:* Sanderling LGO
26th: Gielen SWR
25th: Haitink RCO
*24th:* Zweden, NthRPO
23rd: Blomstedt LGO
22nd: Haitink WPO
*21st:* Asahina OPO JVC
20th: Barbirolli HO
19th: Schuricht WPO
18th: Tintner RNSO
*17th:* Masur LGO *(1p)*
16th: Sinopoli SKD (2p)
15th: Karajan BPO (3p)
14th: Kubelík Sony
*13th:* Rozhdestvensky USSR Nowak 1873
12th: Jochum SOdBR (4p)
*11th:* Barenboim BPO
10th: Knappertsbusch BaySO (5p)
9th: Szell SKD
8th: Vänskä BBC SSO

Very good
7th: Maazel SOdBR (6p)
*6th:* Rozhdestvensky USSR Oeser 1877 *(7p)*
5th: Kubelík Audite
4th: Young HPO (8p)
3rd: Celibidache RSOS (9p)
*2nd:* Barenboim SKB *(10p)*
1st: Tennstedt SOdBR

Highlights of the round-up:









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.3 in D minor*_
1889 Version, Ed. Nowak
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
*Kurt Masur
Sony Classics (1977/2004 Reissued Edition)*

_Ears open for the surprising first movement losing just a bit of steam in the Adagio and Scherzo._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.3 in D minor*_
1873 Original Version, Ed. Nowak
USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra
*Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
Venezia (1988/2009 Reissue Edition)*

_It's not easy to avoid the amateurishness of the original No.3 Scherzo. Rozhdestvensky is one of the few able to make it flourish by slowing it down. The delicacy of the overall symphony is a good experience._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.3 in D minor*_ Live recording
1877 Version, Ed. Oeser
Berliner Philharmoniker
*Daniel Barenboim
Warner Classics (1995/2006 Reissue Edition)*

_Firm and strong without letting in too much brass. The balance doesn't bring passion but everything is well done._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.3 in D minor*_
1877 Version, Ed. Oeser
USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra
*Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
Venezia (1984/2009 Reissue Edition)*

_The Russian conductor feels more sure with this version, achieving the strength of the reference recordings and in advance, softening the edges._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.3 in D minor*_ Live recording
1877 Version, Ed. Oeser
Staatskapelle Berlin
*Daniel Barenboim
Peral / Deutsche Grammophon (2012/2016 Issue Edition)*

_Hands down perfect. The pace is brilliantly settled to make the strings outstanding, and the four movements have a glance of wow moments. The Finale is well done to, below the high standards of the first three movements._
*B*


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## Becca

I remain very highly skeptical of how one can possibly rank 56 recordings of the same work in this manor. I am not even convinced that it is possible for anyone to remember enough of each recording (over 56+ hours, 2+ days of music) to do an effective comparison. And let's not forget the complications caused by the various versions of the symphony (which are mostly not referenced above) - is it even fair to comparatively rank recordings of different versions?

Having had my rant, let me recommend a recording which was released last year and which is not in the above lists - Yannick Nezet-Seguin with the Staatskapelle Dresden from a live performance of the original 1873 version. While the 4th thru 9th symphonies have long been regular parts of my listening and enjoyment, the 3rd is one that I have never really connected with, and even with trying various recordings (Haitink, Tintner, Young, Gielen) - until now. This Dresden/Nezet-Seguin finally made the symphony 'work' for me and convinced me that the 1873 version is the way to go. I strongly recommend it.

P.S. Don't confuse this recording with a more recent one done by YN-S with his Montreal orchestra.


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