# Modern perception of the piano



## digiology (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi,

I have to compose a player piano piece for my thesis but my supervisor insisted that I read up on key pieces that influenced how people perceive the piano. Unfortunately, I can't ignore the past. Pieces such as Cowell's Aeolian Harp, Stockhausen's Mantra and Conlan Nancarrow's work was suggested but I have to make sure I have taken all relevant pieces into account and made an informed assessment of modern day perception of the piano.

Can anyone tell me where to begin?! There seem to be no books about modern piano (i.e. the last century) and finding all the most important piano pieces of the past century hasn't been an easy task so far.


Thanks in advance!


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2008)

So you get a hold of a book like David Cope's _New Directions in Music,_ and you not only read _it_ but you follow the bibliographies, too.

Here's some names of other people besides your three who did cool things with piano, some of them mentioned in Cope's book, some of them not.

Bela Bartok
John Cage
Lamonte Young
Christian Wolff
George Brecht
Mauricio Kagel
Horatio Radulescu
Walter Marchetti
Ross Bolleter

And of course, looking up info on those folks will lead you to other folks....

There's a little thread I started on another forum that you can find here.

http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/...tart=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=persistence+piano

That includes some of my observations about trends as well as mention of some names.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

*Some guy *
Being as this was in the public domain I guess you wont mind me quoting it.

Post by some guy 17/8/07 on The Classical Music Guide Forums

*SUBJECT * The persistence of the piano

*QUOTE * _To start with, there's Henry Cowell's discovery that the inside of the piano could be played directly as well as through the keyboard. That influenced practically everyone, including Cage and Crumb and Kagel. Indeed, if I go to a concert now and the pianist does not reach inside the frame, I feel cheated. The strings can be struck by other things besides the piano's own hammers or plucked or bowed or prepared or miked. Horatio Radulescu's Sound Icons are pianos tipped on their sides (for easier access and probably better directing of sound).

Peter Karman's Piano Piece #1 makes the strings vibrate rather ingeniously, by having people in the audience call cell phones placed on the strings while one person presses the hold pedal down. (The phones are set to vibrate, only.) Like Cowell's Aeolian Harp, it's such an obvious, simple idea (that no one had thought of before!), but what a stunning effect. _ *END QUOTE*
 

*So* now we are re inventing the Piano, What next ??I know, the Trumpet. suck it instead of blowing , The Cello yeh remove the strings and play like an air guitar, Percussion throw away the stick thingies and use wet Fish the possibilities are boundless and mindless.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Not sure what you're on about here, Andante. The OP asked for some information, which I supplied. No judgment asked for or given, yet.

Howsomever, since you've brought up the subject, yes, many people have been busy for upwards of a hundred years now extending the capacities and capabilities of traditional musical instruments, including breathing in and out with wind instruments, detuning and retuning the strings while playing bass and cello, and using other items besides sticks to play drums. Like the bare hand, maybe. Now there's revolutionary, eh? None of this quite constituting "re-invention," I don't think, but what if it did? Or do you only listen clavichord or harpsichord music, the pianoforte being a brash reinvention of keyboard technology.

And perhaps you cringe every time someone plays pizzicato on a stringed instrument, too. That was one of those mindless possibilities of the seventeenth century. Or valves on trumpets and horns--talk about reinventing! Yes, changes in technology and technique for musical instruments has a long and varied history, which continues to this day.

Next week, electricity!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

OK I was slightly off topic, just couldn’t help myself,  however:
Improvements are fine but some ideas (as mentioned in your post) are not improvements, I realise that is subjective but I wager the majority would agree.
Btw. 
Pizzicato came before bowing and hands came before sticks, have you tried to retune a bass while playing it??


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

Andante said:


> OK I was slightly off topic, just couldn't help myself,  however:
> Improvements are fine but some ideas (as mentioned in your post) are not improvements, I realise that is subjective but I wager the majority would agree.
> Btw.
> Pizzicato came before bowing and hands came before sticks, have you tried to retune a bass while playing it??


Well, being off topic happens pretty often round these here parts. And digiology seems to have left the room, anyway, so.... The majority, btw, of people who listen to new music will consider the ideas mentioned in my post as improvements, or at least as good things to do. But who cares? The things that catch on will catch on, the things that don't won't.

As for your btw, pizzicato as a particular technique for stringed instruments which are ordinarily bowed was an innovation of Claudio Monteverdi. It might interest you to know that even for guitars and such, pizzicato can be distinguished from ordinary plucking or strumming.

Hands did come before sticks. Yes. And way to trample all over my joke, there, mister!

I have not even ever played a bass much less tried to retune one while playing, but I have watched while a spectacularly talented bass player did just that (as had his colleague with the cello the night before).

(Andrei Kivu, cello. Jean-Pierre Robert, bass.)


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## Drowning_by_numbers (May 30, 2006)

Ok, I'll continue on the off-topic idea.. I can understand both points of view - because to be honest I don't enjoy listening to pieces where these kinds of extended techniques become gimmicky (not suggesting this is what you are suggesting, Some Guy) but introducing a new sound on the piano has a place in some piece of music or another, and can be used very atmospherically in the right context. In my last piano piece I used only one extended technique - whereby you play a chord and hold the same notes down silently (without pressing the keys) an octave lower (an oldy but a goody!). Then let go of the played chord and hold the silent - and the effect is quite haunting. I consider that in no way gimmicky or in no way a misuse of the piano, and I think the same can be said for all of these ideas. 

That said I have friends who completely avoid extended techniques, especially on the piano because it has become such a clique - that if you put as many extended techniques into a piece as possible, instantly the piece is modern. I personally don't want to write music that is modern for the sake of modern.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2008)

some guy said:


> The majority, btw, of people who listen to new music will consider the ideas mentioned in my post as improvements,


Yes, I bet they do 

Re your comment on Pizz:
Pizzicato is a *direction* to pluck the strings, but different ways (technique) of plucking have evolved.

Regarding the Bass/Cello recital that you refer to "Retuning"
This would depend on how accurate the retuning has to be [modern music may not require accuracy  ] and remember you have to retune 4 strings not only to the original Pitch but also to each other, assuming they did not just alter 1 string and, if only Bass and Cello were involved then this would not be critical but difficult, as they can adjust their position to compensate, this would not be the case if other instruments/orchestra were involved or even just a Piano.

How ever I will bow out as I seem to have hijacked the post, *apologies to digiology*, unless others would like to keep it going.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

Wayne Stuart in Australia has developed new techniques in the construction of the piano which extend the range, strength and tone colour. His pianos are now used in major institutions and centres around Australia. This is probably not relevant but you might find it interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_and_Sons

http://www.stuartandsons.com/index.html


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

*anmarwis*
Very interesting, sounded very clear almost as if the strings were being struck by metal hammers but I guess that can be controlled, I look forward to hearing some of the old masterpieces being recorded just to compare the differences. That is what I would term development.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2008)

You can hear excerpts of Gerard Willems recording of the complete Beethoven Sonatas played on the Stuart piano here:
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=303920


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

Have had a listen, the Waldstein sounded good but I would have to get used to this sound, with such a strong sustaining effect Bach would not be so good , but surly it can be reduced.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2008)

I can't answer that but it is discussed in the video clip of player's comments where Sean Hennessy-Brose plays and discusses Bach and the use of the 4th pedal. 

My piano preferences are Steinway and Bosendorfer and my own piano is a very nice Yamaha. I haven't heard enough of the Stuart piano to form an opinion, but I think it is wonderful that Wayne Stuart has demonstrated that piano technology is not stagnant, and is still open to new and creative development which can challenge the thinking and technique of the performer. He also uses non traditional wood and veneers - the Huon Pine piano (which I have seen on stage) is stunningly beauitful to look at.


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## digiology (Aug 1, 2008)

Howdy people, 

Thanks for your response some guy, I'll hunt down David Cope's New Directions in Music.

I've been toying with sampled and modeled piano software which allows me to make really intense rapid gestures, its much more fluid and less restrictive than our yamaha disklavier at college. My supervisor raised the question 'if your not going to use an acoustic piano then why use a sampled piano sound?' I understand that I'm bring all this historical baggage with the piano, but it just plain sounds great!


Oh yeah, I have no problem with the off-topic posts, they're way more interesting than my question anyway, please continue...


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