# Klemperer.... is his Bach worse than his Rite



## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

A very heavy choice of conductor... one from a different period... nobody would seriously consider him a contender these days even in Beethoven... I was surprised to hear he occassionally dabbled in concerti grosso of earlier styles and even ventured into the 20th century.... a mistake surely...?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Then perhaps you should read about his earlier days, particularly when at the Kroll Opera


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Heresy! My favorite recordings of the Mass in B Minor and the St. Matthew Passion are Klemperer's.

I also love his Brandenburg Concertos.

And although I do not like most of his Beethoven, I love Klemperer's Missa Solemnis.


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## level82rat (Jun 20, 2019)

The intro to his SMP has spoiled every other version for me. Any other interpretation sounds aggressively rushed to the point of being offensive


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

John Lenin said:


> A very heavy choice of conductor... one from a different period... nobody would seriously consider him a contender these days even in Beethoven... I was surprised to hear he occassionally dabbled in concerti grosso of earlier styles and even ventured into the 20th century.... a mistake surely...?


Believe it or not. He was one of the first - maybe the first - to perform the sixth Brandenburg concerto one player per part (with Paul Hindemith on first viola).

I consider his Beethoven immortal, but of course not the definitive word about the music. Such a thing doesn't exist.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

I don`t understand, what do you mean by "his Rite"?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Klemperer was a great, great conductor. No question. His recorded legacy only hints at his versatility. He conducted the European classics, but he didn't skip the 20th c. He did Gershwin, Ravel, Stravinsky, Weill and lot more than people realize. He's not known for the Russian music, but his Tchaikovsky 5th is a knockout. His style isn't to all tastes, but the man knew his music. I know a retired horn player who was in the New Philharmonia with Klemperer on all those recordings. He still says the greatest conductor he ever played for was Klemperer, and he played with most of the greatest from 1950 thru 2000.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

John Lenin said:


> nobody would seriously consider him a contender these days even in Beethoven...


Total rubbish.

His Eroica and Pastoral are considered reference versions, and his live 9ths on Testament are also among the best.

His Brahms cycle is likewise considered among the best, and his Mahler 2nd is still to this day the reference version. His Mahler 9th is likewise among the great ones, and for me personally his Mahler 7th, slow as it is, is my desert island version.

I find his SMP too slow, but his Mass in B minor is my favorite version, the one that truly connects me to the music.

Anyone who thinks Klemperer is obsolete today simply has no ear for musicianship.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Highwayman said:


> I don`t understand, what do you mean by "his Rite"?


John Lenin needed something to rhyme with the word 'bite'
[so he could paraphrase the saying "his bark is worse than his bite" (usually in reference to dogs' barking)]


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

John Lenin said:


> A very heavy choice of conductor... one from a different period... nobody would seriously consider him a contender these days even in Beethoven... I was surprised to hear he occassionally dabbled in concerti grosso of earlier styles and even ventured into the 20th century.... a mistake surely...?


Indeed a mistake ( the question I mean)


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Highwayman said:


> I don`t understand, what do you mean by "his Rite"?


Rite of Spring, I guess? If he had made a recording of that work, I'm not familiar with it.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

This isn't too bad for grand maestro style in 1960. I am surprised how reasonably lightweight it is:


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Klemperer's Bach is a freak show. It's like going to see an oversized, hulking monstrosity at the fairgrounds and coming away as appalled as you had hope for.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

RogerWaters said:


> Klemperer's Bach is a freak show. It's like going to see an oversized, hulking monstrosity at the fairgrounds and coming away as appalled as you had hope for.


:lol: Just for the record, my preferred performance is of course historically informed. (I was being polite to the thread).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> This isn't too bad for grand maestro style in 1960. I am surprised how reasonably lightweight it is:


Sounds pretty prosaic to me. They just didn't know what to do with music like this back then. Klemperer was superb in his basic repertoire, though, and we have some great recordings from him. His Brahms _Requiem_ remains the favorite of many, as do his magnificent Mahler 2nd and _Das Lied von der Erde._ There are powerful Brahms symphonies, the _Missa Solemnis,_ _Fidelio, __Die Zauberflote,_ and excellent Wagner.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

I love these humorous threads. Klem freak shows...nobody would seriously consider him a contender these days even in Beethoven... chuckle


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Klemperer.... is his Bach worse than his Rite*

I rather think it's the opposite. I've always thought Klemperer's Front is worse than his Left. But, what do I know?


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Highwayman said:


> I don`t understand, what do you mean by "his Rite"?


Rite of Spring..... obviously


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Becca said:


> Then perhaps you should read about his earlier days, particularly when at the Kroll Opera


He was a Pioneer. Unfortunately, that doesn't make his later recordings any more palatable


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Total rubbish.
> 
> His Eroica and Pastoral are considered reference versions, and his live 9ths on Testament are also among the best.
> 
> ...


Once more I agree with you, except that I think the SMP stands the slow tempo better than the Mass.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

John Lenin said:


> Rite of Spring..... obviously


I know his Petrushka recording, which is well worth listening to, but as far as I know, he hasn't even conducted the Rite.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

John Lenin said:


> Rite of Spring..... obviously


The joke is that he didn't record it. EMI planned one with the Philharmonia, but Markevitch took over, due to Klemp being ill.

As others have mentioned, there's a big difference between the younger Klemperer (sometimes feverish/HIP-like tempi), versus the very senior one. 
Example: _Mozart Symphony 25 (1950, Rias)_ 




The _Passion of St. Matthew _and the EMI _Das Lied von der Erde _(there are quite a few different ones) are my favourites by him. The _Sydney Mahler's 2nd Symphony_ is on my wish list, but the _Decca with Concertgebouw _ is quite good too.

But a lot of the instrumental standard repertoire I don't find very interesting with him, sorry, in spite of owning a good deal of it.


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