# songs not in operatic style



## ObliqueFury (Dec 29, 2014)

Do you know of songs not in operatic style? What type are these songs called and do you have examples? the more the merrier!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

ObliqueFury said:


> Do you know of songs not in operatic style? What type are these songs called and do you have examples? the more the merrier!


What do you mean by operatic style? _Die Forelle_ by Schubert seems very non-operatic, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

ObliqueFury said:


> What type are these songs called[...]?


Art songs, you mean? _Lieder_ if you're snobby or German.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Or folk songs?










Problem being, anything is fair game for opera, really. Maybe it means "doesn't sound like familiar opera" - in which case, how about this?


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Ooh, right, art songs! A good start is Schubert, he wrote literally hundreds.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

The first genre that came to my mind was that of the Neopolitan song.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

maybe he's just talking about the technique used by classical singers, and he's looking for classical pieces for voice used in a natural way, like Harry Partch did in his work.


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## Admiral (Dec 27, 2014)

Canteloube, Songs of the Auvergne, lots of great recordings of this. 

Dawn Upshaw, in particular, doesn't sing it like an "opera singer"


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Pierrot Lunaire 
But seriously, check out the song that is my username. If you like it, explore Schubert‘s lieder, he has plenty. I and others here can recommend you some.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ahammel said:


> Art songs, you mean? _Lieder_ if you're snobby or German.


_Lied(er)_ (pl. German)
_Melodie(s)_ (French)
_Canzone_ (Italian - don't know the plural, guess = _Conzoni_)
_Song(s)_ (English)

They're called that because that is what they are called locally, and most usually, those are the language of both the composer and text. (Next, we will get a comment that to use the word _Concerto_ (Italian) is also snobby and pretentious

They are still most performed and recorded by professional singers who also (most usually) sing in operas.

_Their usual delivery,_ because so many are for voice and piano, is far more restrained (maybe less of that 'full throated' opera sound your are thinking of?) because they were intended instead for a setting of a smaller room, small hall. The tradition has it these are more music to be sung with a desired quality that they sound more as if someone is talking to us.

Berlioz' _Les nuits d'été_ is a song-cycle (a series of songs, often around a general or specific theme) which was first written for voice and piano, and later very lightly orchestrated by the composer.

Schubert wrote ca. 500 _Lieder,_ self-standing single songs, which are still highly regarded and a staple of the song repertoire.

Ravel, Debussy, R. Strauss, Schumann, Brahms, Mussorgsky, Mahler, Berg, Duparc, Britten, Charles Ives are but a few who have contributed to the large body of art-song literature.

Schubert ~ Nacht und Träume
Elly Ameling




Barbara Hendricks





The genre is not bound to only piano and voice, any number of these songs having been written for solo voice and small chamber ensembles, chamber to full orchestra accompaniments.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Admiral said:


> Canteloube, Songs of the Auvergne, lots of great recordings of this.
> 
> Dawn Upshaw, in particular, doesn't sing it like an "opera singer"


There are many of these, the composer arranged folk songs, here and there, over a good number of years. I second the recommendation, they are delightful.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Falla - (clip from) _El Amor Brujo_






For whatever reason I notice the singing on this piece often sounds a little less traditionally "operatic".


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

PetrB said:


> _Their usual delivery,_ because so many are for voice and piano, is far more restrained (maybe less of that 'full throated' opera sound your are thinking of?) because they were intended instead for a setting of a smaller room, small hall. The tradition has it these are more music to be sung with a desired quality that they sound more as if someone is talking to us.


But, that's just it. So many times they are NOT performed that way.

I've been listening to two discs of the songs of Amy Beach. I wanted to hear them because of the composer, not because of the singer(s). But, in both cases, the mezzo and the baritone singer, I feel like she/he is trying to break the crystal in the room or reach the man in the street two blocks away.

For me, that kind of singing obscures the music. I can't focus on the song itself, because my ears are constantly being directed to focus on the singer.

But, then, I have a problem with overly dramatic singing in general. That may be why Monteverdi is my favorite opera composer. I don't have to put up with that so-off-putting vibrato all the time.

And, bear in mind, this is not because I'm a novice who hasn't gotten acclimated to the idiom yet. I've been listening to classical vocal music for more than 40 years. I just don't like the sound the human voice makes when it does that.


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