# What are your Top 20 Post-1950 Works?



## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

With the voting going on, I thought it would be interesting to hear each individual's top 20 post-1950 works.

Mine are (off the top of my head), NOT in hierarchical order:
(_Disclaimer: I have TONS of listening still to do_)

1. Adams: Harmonielehre
2. Messiaen: Éclairs sur l'au-delà...
3. Rzewski: The People United...
4. Harvey: Mortuos Plango Vivos Voco
5. Saariaho: Lichtbogen
6. Adams: Nixon in China
7. Andriessen: de Staat
8. Xenakis: Jonchaies
9. Benjamin: Shadowlines
10. Grisey: Les Espaces Acoustiques
11. Pärt: Fratres
12. Adams: Naive and Sentimental Music
13. Maxwell Davies: Trumpet Concerto
14. Nancarrow: Studies for Player Piano
15. Maxwell Davies: Strathclyde Concerto no.9
16. Crumb: Ancient Voices of Children
17. Marshall: Fog Tropes
18. Feldman: Rothko Chapel
19. Zwilich: Trombone Concerto
20. Lutoslawski: Funeral Music


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Not really in order:
Schnittke - Viola Concerto
Adès - Concentric Paths
Penderecki - Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima
Takemitsu - Requiem for Strings
Berio - Sinfonia
Britten - War Requiem
Glass - Einstein on the Beach
Adams - Harmonielehre
Shostakovich - String Quartet No. 15
Shostakovich - Symphony No. 15
Xenakis - Metastaseis
Crumb - Black Angels
Schnittke - Concerto Grosso No.1
Adès - Powder her Face
Prokofiev - Symphony No. 7
Takemitsu - From me flows what you call time
Messaien - Des canyons aux etoiles
Ligeti - Requiem
Ligeti - Violin Concerto
Part - Te Deum


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I could just as easily put 
Sostakovich SQ 7 or 9 or 
Barbers' Piano Concerto or 
Hindemith Symphony in B-flat for Concert Band or
Bernstein: West Side Story


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

No order and definitely not comprehensive:

1) Reich's Different Trains
2) Takemitsu's Spirit Garden
3) Reich's WTC 9/11
4) Reich's Music for 18 Musicians
5) Glass' Violin Concerto
6) Adams' The Chairman Dances
7) Ferneyhough's Sixth String Quartet
8) Feldman's String Quartet No. 1
9) Feldman's String Quartet No. 2
10) Feldman's For Bunita Marcus
11) Feldman's Rothko Chapel
12) Feldman's For Philip Guston
13) Feldman's Crippled Symmetry
14) Feldman's Triadic Memories
15) Berio's Sinfonia
16) Adams' Short Ride in a Fast Machine
17) Adams' Harmonielehre
18) Takemitsu's November Steps
19) Ligeti's Atmospheres
20) Clyne's Night Ferry


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

Here is my list, though I must admit, I am not well versed in the contemporary repertoire. I own almost all of this music on CDs, and listen often. 

Adams Violin Concerto (1993)
Bernstein Serenade for violin (1954)
Brett Dean The lost art of letter writing (2009)
Gubaidulina Offertorium (1980)
Gubaidulina In Tempus Praesens (2007)
Ligeti violin concerto (1991)
Lutosławski Symphony #3 (1983)
Pärt Frates (1977)
Pärt Tabula Rasa (1977)
Poulenc Gloria (1961)
Reich Different Trains (1988)
Rodrigo Fantasia para Gentihombre (1954)
Shostakovich Symphony #10 (1953)
Shostakovich Piano Concerto #2 (1957)
Shostakovich String Quartet #8 (1960)
Stravinsky Agon (1957)
Takemitsu From me flows what you call time (1990)
Tippett String Quartet #4 (1978)
Ralph Vaughan Williams Symphony #7 (1952)
Villa Lobos Guitar Concerto (1951)


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I couldn't list only 20 works, as I'd be forced to choose only one work or less by almost every composer I am familiar with from the period in question, but the composers that rate highly are largely those that have been part of my experience for much of my life (in alphabetical order):

Boulez
Carter
Dutilleux
Gerhard
Gubaidulina
Ligeti
Malec
Messiaen
Nono
Penderecki
Schnittke
Stockhausen
Shostakovich
Takemitsu
Varèse
Xenakis
Zimmermann

These should not come as any surprise. Many of these are worth 10 places on the list, at least. How could I choose? I'm intentionally leaving Hartmann, Prokofiev and Stravinsky off the list, as they were primarily active prior to the '50s. By that argument, I should leave Varèse off the list, too, but his style was so avant garde that he seems to fit better with the post-'50s composers.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

I could probably rustle up a list of current composers; not works though because of the paucity of my experience.

In my ignorance, I do think it a bit odd to see Shostakovich in there; I know it's a date-based list but I took it to mean ahem, "modern" ( quotes for the sensitive  ). By "modern" I mean stuff my mum wouldn't think of as "classical" 

Also, each night I'm crying myself to sleep at the lack of love for Kurtag but I don't want anybody to feel bad about that. No, really, I'm fine...


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

dogen said:


> Also, each night I'm crying myself to sleep at the lack of love for Kurtag but I don't want anybody to feel bad about that. No, really, I'm fine...


Lack of love? Two Kurtag works are already seconded, a lot of us are planning on voting for Kurtag - we aren't even 15 works in yet, geez. Patience!


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

tdc said:


> Lack of love? Two Kurtag works are already seconded, *a lot of us are planning* on voting for Kurtag - we aren't even 15 works in yet, geez. Patience!


I'll try! I'll try!!!!

Regarding the "planning", you mean there's secret meetings going on??!!


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Sorry to veer off topic but speaking about the music project what I don't get is when people nominate works and then don't vote for them to support them after they're seconded *cough* *dogen* *cough* *brotagonist* *cough*.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

dogen said:


> I'll try! I'll try!!!!
> 
> Regarding the "planning", you mean there's secret meetings going on??!!


No, but I noticed you nominated the work, someone else seconded it, and I know in my mind I'm also planning to help support Kurtag soon. I figured out the rest of this equation in my mind using complex algorithms and intuition.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

tdc said:


> Sorry to veer off topic but speaking about the music project what I don't get is when people nominate works and then don't vote for them to support them after they're seconded *cough* *dogen* *cough* *brotagonist* *cough*.


Hey, I was showing restraint! I didn't want to be someone driving my nomination into enshrinement unhindered by any other public support! I seriously thought this.

If what you're saying is the consensus then, I shall duly commence throwing some votes Mr Kurtag's way!

(although, having listened to quite a lot of the seconded pieces, I've enjoyed so much I'm stuck for choice  )


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

dogen said:


> Hey, I was showing restraint! I didn't want to be someone driving my nomination into enshrinement unhindered by any other public support! I seriously thought this.
> )


Its kind of a balance, while I wouldn't recommend constantly voting for something no one else is, I expect people to support their nominations somewhat - if its been seconded at least one other person wants it in. When I second something personally I appreciate the original nominator helping me enshrine it.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

But the system lends itself to not being able to express a coherent opinion, I think. You only get 2 votes, so it's hard to juggle (a) pushing a work into enshrinement, (b) pushing several works into position to encourage their future enshrinement, (c) supporting the dozens of works that haven't got much support yet, (d) seconding a handful of works, and (e) nominating dozens if not hundreds of other works.

Anyway, this is wandering off the topic, but I need to have a proper think before I commit myself to a list of 20 works.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

tdc said:


> Sorry to veer off topic but speaking about the music project what I don't get is when people nominate works and then don't vote for them to support them after they're seconded *cough* *dogen* *cough* *brotagonist* *cough*.


On the other thread it was discussed, and widely agreed, that voting for and pushing through your own nominations was way uncool, and against the spirit of enshrinement via agreement and consensus.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

Not 20, not works, but you can't get the staff these days...


Kurtag
Ligeti
Boulez
Rzewski
Gorecki
Crumb
Penderecki
Schnittke
Lutoslawski
Andriessen
Part
Saariaho
Scelsi
Xenakis


As ever, provisional


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

I imposed rules on myself because otherwise there was no way to get it down to 20. 
So only one work per composer, and the list attempts to reflect my general tastes though it pains me to leave out a lot of other things.

In chronological order:

Britten: The Turn of the Screw (1954)
Shostakovich: Piano concerto no.2 (1957)
Weinberg: Violin concerto (1959)
Ligeti: Lux aeterna (1966)
Crumb: Black Angels (1970)
Rautavaara: Cantus arcticus (1972)
Tormis: Curse Upon Iron (1972)
Górecki: Symphony no.3 (1976)
Reich: Music for 18 Musicians (1976)
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso no.1 (1977)
Pärt: Spiegel im Spiegel (1978)
Monk: Dolmen Music (1979)
Glass: Glassworks (1982)
Adams, John: Harmonielehre (1985)
Sculthorpe: Earth Cry (1986)
MacMillan: The Confession of Isobel Gowdie (1990)
Nørgård: String quartet no.8, 'Night Descending Like Smoke' (1997)
Nyman: Wonderland (1999)
Wolfe: Steel Hammer (2009)
Adams, John Luther: Become Ocean (2013)


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

SimonNZ said:


> On the other thread it was discussed, and widely agreed, that voting for and pushing through your own nominations was way uncool, and against the spirit of enshrinement via agreement and consensus.


It was widely agreed that pushing is way uncool, yes - but not throwing a few votes towards ones nominations. For example brotagonist has nominated Gubaiduilina's Offertorium and Schnittke's Concerto Grosso 4, both were seconded quite a while ago, and have been voted for by other posters and brotagonist has not since given either work even one vote. I've participated in the other classical music project and people always vote for their own nominations. It _is_ lame to vote too much for one work when no one else is supporting it for sure, or when every 2 point vote only goes towards a persons own nomination, other than that it is totally cool (and I think expected) for a person to support their own nomination.

*edit -* by "widely" agreed I mean I remember you and nathanb mentioning this issue, other than that I don't recall anyone saying anything much about it. For the record nathanb has been voting for his own nomination (if I remember correctly here) LICHT. Moonlightsonata (who was the organizer of this project) has also been voting for their own nomination.

Its part of the game. If I'm wrong here we may as well just officially change the rule to avoid confusion.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Albert7 said:


> No order and definitely not comprehensive:
> 
> 1) Reich's Different Trains
> 2) Takemitsu's Spirit Garden
> ...


I didn't know you were such a fan of Feldman! To me, though I can appreciate his music, it requires slowing myself down and showing more patience than I usually possess.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Which pieces are a good intro to Kurtag?


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

tdc said:


> It was widely agreed that pushing is way uncool, yes - but not throwing a few votes towards ones nominations. For example brotagonist has nominated Gubaiduilina's Offertorium and Schnittke's Concerto Grosso 4, both were seconded quite a while ago, and have been voted for by other posters and brotagonist has not since given either work even one vote. I've participated in the other classical music project and people always vote for their own nominations. It _is_ lame to vote too much for one work when no one else is supporting it for sure, or when every 2 point vote only goes towards a persons own nomination, other than that it is totally cool (and I think expected) for a person to support their own nomination.
> 
> *edit -* by "widely" agreed I mean I remember you and nathanb mentioning this issue, other than that I don't recall anyone saying anything much about it. For the record nathanb has been voting for his own nomination (if I remember correctly here) LICHT. Moonlightsonata (who was the organizer of this project) has also been voting for their own nomination.
> 
> Its part of the game. If I'm wrong here we may as well just officially change the rule to avoid confusion.


Well yes, I think Simon may disagree on some of the finer points. I do vote for my own nominations, but typically try to wait for them to get a few points from others before voting for them again; I don't assume that someone wants them immediately enshrined simply because they've been seconded. Experience in the TC Project shows that the act of seconding is little more than an act of charity compared to the act of semi-consistent voting.

Note: In contrast to another poster who seemingly joined the game just to push Shostakovich works to the top.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> I didn't know you were such a fan of Feldman! To me, though I can appreciate his music, it requires slowing myself down and showing more patience than I usually possess.


He just spent a month listening exclusively to Feldman and posting 20 times a day about Feldman. Did you miss that? 

I'm sure the list will be entirely replaced ("in no order"...but with a clear numbered order, mind you) as soon as Albert hears a Helen Grime miniature again


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

tdc said:


> It was widely agreed that pushing is way uncool, yes - but not throwing a few votes towards ones nominations. For example brotagonist has nominated Gubaiduilina's Offertorium and Schnittke's Concerto Grosso 4, both were seconded quite a while ago, and have been voted for by other posters and brotagonist has not since given either work even one vote.


Ok, I will vote for those 2 pieces this morning  Perhaps I am interpreting the 'rules' too strictly? I just don't want to be seen as someone who is trying to force his favourites onto the list. It is supposed to be a collective list. If I had voted just for 'my' stuff, twice daily, I could have had numerous pieces enshrined, but what would that mean, if no (or very few) others vote for them?

Thanks for giving me license to relax the rules slightly (but still within the spirit of what was decided in the earlier discussion SimonNZ referred to) :tiphat: I think I find myself in a can't win if you do and can't win if you don't situation, so I'd better do it a bit


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> Ok, I will vote for those 2 pieces this morning  Perhaps I am interpreting the 'rules' too strictly? I just don't want to be seen as someone who is trying to force his favourites onto the list. It is supposed to be a collective list. If I had voted just for 'my' stuff, twice daily, I could have had numerous pieces enshrined, but what would that mean, if no (or very few) others vote for them?
> 
> Thanks for giving me license to relax the rules slightly (but still within the spirit of what was decided in the earlier discussion SimonNZ referred to) :tiphat: I think I find myself in a can't win if you do and can't win if you don't situation, so I'd better do it a bit


Basically bro, we're anarcho-syndicalists awash in a sea of libertarians


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> Thanks for giving me license to relax the rules slightly (but still within the spirit of what was decided in the earlier discussion SimonNZ referred to) :tiphat: I think I find myself in a can't win if you do and can't win if you don't situation, so I'd better do it a bit


But put one toe over the "spirit" line and it's your a**, buster


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

20centrfuge said:


> Which pieces are a good intro to Kurtag?


The two on the list are (in my limited experience) typical of his fragile, spartan style.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

20centrfuge said:


> Which pieces are a good intro to Kurtag?


My introduction to Kurtag was the Kafka Fragments, which I was going to nominate for the recommended list, but he already has two pieces on the board that are also very good as well.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> Ok, I will vote for those 2 pieces this morning  Perhaps I am interpreting the 'rules' too strictly? I just don't want to be seen as someone who is trying to force his favourites onto the list. It is supposed to be a collective list. If I had voted just for 'my' stuff, twice daily, I could have had numerous pieces enshrined, but what would that mean, if no (or very few) others vote for them?


You could just as easily done the same thing if you had waited for someone else to nominate your favorite work, then pushed it through pretty much by yourself. So whatever the unwritten rules are, I think never-ever-vote-for-your-own-nom is too strict.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

A note about Kurtag:

Don't try to pin down his style with solely small chamber works. While his chamber style may be comparable to a more contemporary Webern, his orchestral works are not quite the same.

That said, the _Kafka Fragments_, the quartets, _Signs, Games And Messages_, _Jatetok_, etc are all fantastic introductions in the one sense.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

GreenMamba said:


> You could just as easily done the same thing if you had waited for someone else to nominate your favorite work, then pushed it through pretty much by yourself. So whatever the unwritten rules are, I think never-ever-vote-for-your-own-nom is too strict.


I think the notion of "Whatever you vote for, spread your total number of votes around a bit" (Shortened as "Share the love") pretty much covers all the bases.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

SuperTonic said:


> ...which I was going to nominate for the recommended list, but he already has two pieces on the board that are also very good as well.


That's been my logic, too. While not all pieces are my personal choices by the nominated composers, getting too many would dilute the vote and deny the composer the recognition s/he deserves. There's no way I can evaluate the value of one favourite piece over another favourite piece by the same composer, let alone ones by another favourite composer.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm terribly predictable. Give me another 20 choices if you want an occasional surprise 

Barrett: _Dark Matter_
Berio: _Points On The Curve To Find..._
Berio: _Sinfonia_
Birtwistle: _The Mask Of Orpheus_
Boulez: _Le Marteau Sans Maitre_
Boulez: _Repons_
Boulez: _Sur Incises_
Carter: _A Symphony Of Three Orchestras_
Ferneyhough: _Shadowtime_
Grisey: _Les Espaces Acoustiques_
Ligeti: _Requiem_
Maderna: _Quadrivium_
Messiaen: _Des Canyons Aux Etoiles_
Nono: _Como Una Ola De Fuerza Y Luz_
Reimann: _Lear_
Saariaho: _L'Amour De Loin_
Stockhausen: _Gruppen_
Stockhausen: _Kontakte_
Stockhausen: _LICHT_
Takemitsu: _From Me Flows What You Call Time_


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I'll play...

Penderecki - Violin Concerto
Penderecki - Threnody
Elliott Carter - Concerto for Orchestra
Elliott Carter - Variations for orchestra
Elliott Carter - String Quartet No 3
Samuel Barber - Medea's Dance of Vengeance
Samuel Barber - Concerto for Piano and Orchestra
Joseph Schwantner - Concerto for Percussion and Wind Orchestra
Joan Tower - Concerto for Orchestra
Lutoslawski - Piano concerto
Magnus Lindberg - Concerto for Orchestra
Magnus Lindberg - Sculpture
Ligeti - Atmospheres 
Ligeti - Chamber Concerto, for 13 instrumentalists
Benjamin Britten - War Requiem
Arvo Part - Fratres
Schnittke - Concerto Grosso 
Ernst Krenek - Statisch Und Exstatisch
Thea Musgrave - Clarinet Concerto (new discovery, not sure it belongs on this list?)
Berio - Sinfonia


As with all lists of this type, ask again tomorrow, and it will most likely be different.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Among possible candidates, some of mine - often reflecting a somewhat conservative taste - would be:

Nørgård: Piano Concerto
Nørgård: Percussion Concerto
Keuris: Piano Concerto
Shostakovich: 15th Symphony
Shostakovich: 1st Cello Concerto

Holmboe: Symphony 11 (1980; this isn´t generally considered a particularly great work, but I really like the musical motifs and ongoings there)
Pettersson: Symphony 8
Pettersson: 2nd Violin Concerto
Rochberg: Piano Quintet
Takemitsu: Riverrun

Dlugoszewski: Fire Fragile Flight
Schnittke: Viola Concerto
Ruders: 1st Piano Concerto
Pärt: Tabula Rasa concerto
Messiaen: Des Canyons ...

Stravinsky: Orchestral Variations
Lutoslawski: Symphony 4
Lutoslawski: Piano Concerto
Murail: L´Esprit des Dunes
Saariaho: L´Aile du Songe, flute concerto

BUT there are many others too 

EDIT:
OUCH, forgot 
Martinu: 6th Symphony


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

Well, I'll try this, but I haven't listened to as many post-1950 works as I'd have liked. I'm guessing there are somewhere between 100 and 150 pieces that I've listened to from this period, and I probably only know half of them well enough to actually be able to recognize them. My list might turn out weird, but here are (approximately) my favorite 20 pieces written after 1950...

1. Symphony No. 1 - Alfred Schnittke
2. Symphony No. 15 - Dmitri Shostakovich
3. Viola Concerto - Sofia Gubaidulina
4. Candide - Leonard Bernstein
5. Symphony No. 3 - Henryk Gorecki
6. String Quartet No. 8	- Dmitri Shostakovich
7. Symphony No. 10 - Dmitri Shostakovich
8. Violin Concerto - Magnus Lindberg
9. _The People United Will Never Be Defeated!_ - Frederic Rzewski
10. Violin Concerto - Thomas Ades
11. Tabula Rasa - Arvo Part
12. Crippled Symmetry - Morton Feldman
13. Einstein on the Beach - Philip Glass
14. Musica ricercata - Gyorgy Ligeti
15. Sinfonia - Luciano Berio
16. Piano Concerto No. 3 - Dmitri Kabalevsky
17. Cello Concerto - William Walton
18. Violin Concerto No. 1 - Philip Glass
19. Partiels	- Gerard Grisey
20. Symphony No. 4 - Einar Englund


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't feel capable of popping off my top-20 all at once, but I'll put some thought into it. Some inclusions will be: 

- Boulez: Le marteau sans maître 
- Britten: War Requiem 
- Crumb: Black Angels
- Feldman: Three Voices for Joan Labarbara 
- Golijov: The Dreams and Prayers of Isaac the Blind 
- Ligeti: Etudes for piano 
- Nono: Como una ola de fuerza y luz 
- Piazzolla: Five Tango Sensations 
- Reich: Music for 18 Musicians
- Rzewski: Coming Together 
- Rzewski: Variations on The People United Will Never Be Defeated!
- Shostakovich: String Quartet #8
- Shostakovich: Viola Sonata 
- Takemitsu: From Me Flows What You Call Time 

Just some stuff that might make the cut or not:
- Adams: Harmonielehre 
- Aho: Symphony #11 
- Babbitt: Correspondences 
- Babbitt: Philomel
- Berio: Sinfonia 
- Cage: Music of Changes 
- Carter: String Quartet #1 
- Carter: String Quartet #3 
- Dutilleux: Cello concerto 
- Glass: Aguas da Amazonia 
- Glass: Einstein on the Beach 
- Hartmann: Concerto funebre (revised in 1959) 
- Henze: El Cimarrón 
- Kancheli: Lament 
- Ligeti: Le grand macabre
- Ligeti: Poème symphonique for 100 metronomes 
- Lutoslawski: Symphony #3
- Martinu: Les Fresques de Piero della Francesca
- Messiaen: Catalogue d' oiseaux
- Messiaen: Éclairs sur l'au-delà… 
- Murail: Gondwana 
- Nono: Il canto sospeso 
- Nono: Fragmente-Stille, an Diotima
- Nono: Intolleranza 1960 
- Nono: La lontananza nostalgica utopia futura
- Nono: "Hay que caminar" soñando
- Nono: .....sofferto onde serene.....
- Stockhausen: Gruppen 
- Stockhausen: Stimmung 
- Stockhausen: Helicopter Quartet
- Walton: Cello Concerto 
- Xenakis: Metastaseis
- Zimmerman: Die Soldaten 

I'll think about it. I'm not done brainstorming, and I'll reduce it to 20 later.


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## HIDEKI SUKENOBU (Mar 31, 2015)

Fratres and For Benjamin Britten or something are only my favorites after 1950. I' ve several times listened to Valentin Silvestrov's symphony. As you know, my interests are limited from JSB through Bartok or Stravinsky. Top 50 is not feasible.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Yep, still trying to promote Anna Clyne again here in this thread. Her works are A1 sauce.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Albert7 said:


> Yep, still trying to promote Anna Clyne again here in this thread. Her works are A1 sauce.


I'm unfamiliar with Anna Clyne. What piece of music would you recommend as an intro?


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm unfamiliar with Anna Clyne. What piece of music would you recommend as an intro?


Fits + Starts is a good place to try her works out.

It's on her CD Blue Moth (I will get it from iTunes soon).


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