# What is the evidence of how Franz Schubert got sick and gets so much hate for it?



## KlassikerDronning

As we mark the 194th anniversary of the worst day in music history, I would like to dedicate yet another post to him. It is no secret he had a disease people frown upon. And that he had quite a bad and unfair reputation for it. But this wasn't an un common thing in his time. Many innocent people have suffered from this. It is a bacterial infection like the plague. And of course medical techniques were still pretty backwards. So they poisoned him with quicksilver!(wasn't that nice) which makes sense with the lack of oxygen to his brain. It's documented. 
But no surprise some typical disgusting people on the still want to make heinous stories like he was a pedophile or a rapist. 
They tell me I am the worthless dirtbag for being a fan of "such a person". I have even seen some psycho post on this forum here quoting:"he was so fugly, he must have gotten syphilis of the toilet". my original account got banned because I told them the truth. Oh well😈🖤


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Do people hate Schubert for his syphilis?? I don't know the story, but someone said "he was composing all the time and then once got to be with a woman and BAM, he had syphilis."


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## KlassikerDronning

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Do people hate Schubert for his syphilis?? I don't know the story, but someone said "he was composing all the time and then once got to be with a woman and BAM, he had syphilis."


The "woman" was a queer liberaçe😆


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## Merl

I think that most serious music fans realise that Schubert's problems were more severe than just "he died from syphilis". We now know that he suffered from cyclothymia (a word I find difficult to say) throughout his life which meant he had severe mood swings (from hypomania to severe depression). Contracting syphilis in his early 20s made things worse. From the two biographies I've read it seems that the syphilis in combination with his mental condition caused him to suffer from intense headaches, fevers and skin problems (including psoriasis and alopecia) to the extent that he had to have his head shaved and wear a wig. It didn't help that he disliked his own physical appearance and suffered because of it . He was small, short-sighted and was often unfairly lampooned in caricatures which certainly wouldnt have helped his self-confidence with the opposite sex (or his own sex). Although the syphilis he contracted from prostitutes was very common in Vienna (and many other artists were affected) the physical effects were highly noticeable for Schubert with his skin issues. Interestingly, even though it was common knowledge that he had syphilis his friends still burned much of his personal paperwork, after his death, so the public never knew the full extent of his suffering from the disease (although some historians believe that this was also due to revelations about his bisexuality). Ironically, if he had lived in the modern world, the syphilis wouldnt have been an issue but he lived in an age where nearly every ailment was treated with mercury (yep, he was poisoned to death like many millions of other people). He had all the classic symptoms of Mercury poisoning - dry, hot mouth with a constant taste of metal, loss of appetite (due to everything tasting of metal), difficulty swallowing food, dizziness, swollen joints, memory loss (Mercury poisoning causes brain damage), drooling, breathing problems (mercury affects the lungs badly), intense vomiting (which resulted in inflammation of the throat), diarrhoea and a constant need to urinate. The quacks of the time would put these symptoms down to the syphilis!
Schubert's death certificate ridiculously gave his cause of death as "typhus abdominalis," (that diagnosis was given for everyone who had fever, weakness and vomiting) but it was basically an admission that they hadn't a clue how he died. Typhus was not prevalent or even common at that time where he lived. He almost certainly died very painfully from mercury poisoning. Poor guy. Its a tragic tale and we can only wonder what wonderful music could have come from this amazing composer had he lived much longer.


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## EdwardBast

Could you please provide a link(s) to the thread(s) in which the heinous things you describe were said about Schubert? Thanks.


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## KlassikerDronning

EdwardBast said:


> Could you please provide a link(s) to the thread(s) in which the heinous things you describe were said about Schubert? Thanks.


Ok. I will try to find it.


Merl said:


> I think that most serious music fans realise that Schubert's problems were more severe than just "he died from syphilis". We now know that he suffered from cyclothymia (a word I find difficult to say) throughout his life which meant he had severe mood swings (from hypomania to severe depression). Contracting syphilis in his early 20s made things worse. From the two biographies I've read it seems that the syphilis in combination with his mental condition caused him to suffer from intense headaches, fevers and skin problems (including psoriasis and alopecia) to the extent that he had to have his head shaved and wear a wig. It didn't help that he disliked his own physical appearance and suffered because of it . He was small, short-sighted and was often unfairly lampooned in caricatures which certainly wouldnt have helped his self-confidence with the opposite sex (or his own sex). Although the syphilis he contracted from prostitutes was very common in Vienna (and many other artists were affected) the physical effects were highly noticeable for Schubert with his skin issues. Interestingly, even though it was common knowledge that he had syphilis his friends still burned much of his personal paperwork, after his death, so the public never knew the full extent of his suffering from the disease (although some historians believe that this was also due to revelations about his bisexuality). Ironically, if he had lived in the modern world, the syphilis wouldnt have been an issue but he lived in an age where nearly every ailment was treated with mercury (yep, he was poisoned to death like many millions of other people). He had all the classic symptoms of Mercury poisoning - dry, hot mouth with a constant taste of metal, loss of appetite (due to everything tasting of metal), difficulty swallowing food, dizziness, swollen joints, memory loss (Mercury poisoning causes brain damage), drooling, breathing problems (mercury affects the lungs badly), intense vomiting (which resulted in inflammation of the throat), diarrhoea and a constant need to urinate. The quacks of the time would put these symptoms down to the syphilis!
> Schubert's death certificate ridiculously gave his cause of death as "typhus abdominalis," (that diagnosis was given for everyone who had fever, weakness and vomiting) but it was basically an admission that they hadn't a clue how he died. Typhus was not prevalent or even common at that time where he lived. He almost certainly died very painfully from mercury poisoning. Poor guy. Its a tragic tale and we can only wonder what wonderful music could have come from this amazing composer had he lived much longer.


That is extremely interesting. I can relate just so much between his composing style and life! Considering the fact that I was diagnosed with Asperger's disorder and OCD, which have similar symptoms...and I also have eczema. I have never contracted syphilis thankfully, but I am still recovering from Covid and I had some mild temporary hair loss. It was scary though! I could only imagine how he felt about it... 
But I really believe I am maybe some kind of reincarnation of him. Maybe not literally as his spirit,(I'm an atheist for the most part) but there is some sort of like "cosmic connection" that draws me to him. Obviously.
But he was very cute actually. Being short isn't unattractive to me at all. I wish I could tell him that sooo bad.☹


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## Monsalvat

Seems you like Schubert more than his music... Schubert and Mozart were both extremely talented, prolific composers who died very young. Their biographical details add perhaps an element of mystery/intrigue to their stories, but shouldn't be used to judge their music. I've never read a biography of Schubert and hadn't realized how unreliable the syphilis diagnosis was, nor that the treatment led to mercury poisoning. Still, I don't necessarily see the need to defend a composer's personal reputation; I think just mentioning the name "Wagner" should put that notion to rest. Schubert's music is more than good enough to stand up for itself. 

Likewise, I haven't seen those aforementioned threads. People will say things online that they wouldn't say in person. Unfortunately this has broader ramifications than the reputation of a certain early nineteenth century Viennese composer...


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## KlassikerDronning

Yeah, right!!!


Monsalvat said:


> Seems you like Schubert more than his music... Schubert and Mozart were both extremely talented, prolific composers who died very young. Their biographical details add perhaps an element of mystery/intrigue to their stories, but shouldn't be used to judge their music. I've never read a biography of Schubert and hadn't realized how unreliable the syphilis diagnosis was, nor that the treatment led to mercury poisoning. Still, I don't necessarily see the need to defend a composer's personal reputation; I think just mentioning the name "Wagner" should put that notion to rest. Schubert's music is more than good enough to stand up for itself.
> 
> Likewise, I haven't seen those aforementioned threads. People will say things online that they wouldn't say in person. Unfortunately this has broader ramifications than the reputation of a certain early nineteenth century Viennese composer...


Why would I not love his music? I play his music! I have been interested in playing classical music since age 6 and took piano lessons at 7. Like what the hell? Why are you calling me a talentless bimbo poser just because you are not a fan? Because I could out-compose you in 3 seconds! 
What a joke!🤡🤹🎪


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## Merl

KlassikerDronning said:


> Yeah, right!!!
> Why would I not love his music? I play his music! I have been interested in playing classical music since age 6 and took piano lessons at 7. Like what the hell? Why are you calling me a talentless bimbo poser just because you are not a fan? Because I could out-compose you in 3 seconds!
> What a joke!🤡🤹🎪


I don't think Monsalvat is insinuating anything of the sort. I didn't read that post as negative at all. 🤨


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## bagpipers

I have never heard of anyone hating Schubert for having syphilis.It was common then,it's likely also what caused Beethoven's deafness.Beethoven also had small pox which was also common then.Queen Elizabeth I also bad small pox.
All these things were common before antibiotics


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## EdwardBast

KlassikerDronning said:


> Yeah, right!!!
> Why would I not love his music? I play his music! I have been interested in playing classical music since age 6 and took piano lessons at 7. Like what the hell? *Why are you calling me a talentless bimbo poser just because you are not a fan?* Because I could out-compose you in 3 seconds!
> What a joke!🤡🤹🎪


Obviously, this bizarre misreading of Monsalvat's post puts in doubt any other claims you've made in this thread about posts on TC. Please support your claims or desist.


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## Scherzi Cat

KlassikerDronning said:


> The "woman" was a queer liberaçe😆


Based on what this one sentence reveals about your intentions, it is no wonder your “original account” was banned.


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## Shaughnessy

KlassikerDronning said:


> ...*my original account got banned* because I told them the truth. Oh well😈🖤


Is this the new forum policy? - Members who have been permanently banned can now return as long as they change their username?



KlassikerDronning said:


> Why are you calling me a *talentless bimbo poser* just because you are not a fan?


We have no idea as to whether or not you actually have any talent. Head over to "Today's Composers" and post some of your compositions - And they themselves will provide the answer.

No one, other than yourself, has ever referred to you as a "bimbo" - A bimbo is "an attractive but empty-headed young woman who is perceived as a sex object"...



KlassikerDronning said:


> But I look like Schubert actually.


You can either look like Schubert or you can be a bimbo... but you can't look like Schubert and be a bimbo at one and the same time...

And... It's "poseur", not "poser"...


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## KlassikerDronning

Shaughnessy said:


> Is this the new forum policy? - Members who have been permanently banned can now return as long as they change their username?
> 
> 
> 
> We have no idea as to whether or not you actually have any talent. Head over to "Today's Composers" and post some of your compositions - And they themselves will provide the answer.
> 
> No one, other than yourself, has ever referred to you as a "bimbo" - A bimbo is "an attractive but empty-headed young woman who is perceived as a sex object" - "Looking exactly like Schubert" immediately rules out any claims one might have towards actually being a genuine bimbo.
> 
> And... It's "poseur", not "poser"...


Are you saying I am not attractive?😭
I did not mean to say anything here against the community guidelines. But I based on what I have read he was saying I never cared that much about his music and like some sort of "fake fan"
I mean music has pretty much been my career since elementary school. Just the fact he is cute and I relate to him is a bonus. So that exactly why he is my all-time favourite composer(besides Beethoven and Bach of course)


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## KlassikerDronning

EdwardBast said:


> Obviously, this bizarre misreading of Monsalvat's post puts in doubt any other claims you've made in this thread about posts on TC. Please support your claims or desist.


Apparently the content I was referring to has been deleted since I google searched it and I can't find it. So that evidence is gone. Although that's kind of a good thing.
But don't even get me started on all of the redditers "bashing" him🤬


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## Shaughnessy

KlassikerDronning said:


> *Are you saying I am not attractive?*😭


I would never say that to a woman - I had a mother, have a wife, and five sisters - aside from the "no kidding, straight guy" sense, I genuinely like women in and of themselves and would never make a derogatory comment about their appearance - Your admiration - or adulation - of Schubert is a decision that you yourself have chosen to make and you're more than welcome to it - It's of no concern to me or to anyone else on this forum - I just think you're over-playing the physical resemblance angle which, quite frankly,  is doing a disservice to yourself as the comparison flatters him and demeans your own appearance - Bright eyes, nice smile - Downplay the _doppelganger_ quest and embark instead upon a journey which leads to a greater sense of self-esteem and confidence in your own unique identity. One Schubert was more than enough, two is one too many...


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## Chat Noir

What an extraordinary thread.


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## KlassikerDronning

Shaughnessy said:


> I would never say that to a woman - I had a mother, have a wife, and five sisters - aside from the "no kidding, straight guy" sense, I genuinely like women in and of themselves and would never make a derogatory comment about their appearance - Your admiration - or adulation - of Schubert is a decision that you yourself have chosen to make and you're more than welcome to it - It's of no concern to me or to anyone else on this forum - I just think you're over-playing the physical resemblance angle which, quite frankly, is doing a disservice to yourself as the comparison flatters him and demeans your own appearance - Bright eyes, nice smile - Downplay the _doppelganger_ quest and embark instead upon a journey which leads to a greater sense of self-esteem and confidence in your own unique identity. One Schubert was more than enough, two is one too many...



Hmm, yes I know what you mean but I still think he's attractive too I like his hair, cute round face, and nice blueish eyes🥰


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## bagpipers

This thread is almost as Schubert was Typhoid Mary or Gaetan Dugas


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## Merl

Chat Noir said:


> What an extraordinary thread.


Wait till you've been here a few years. This will seem like one of the normal ones!


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## Animal the Drummer

bagpipers said:


> This thread is almost as Schubert was Typhoid Mary or Gaetan Dugas


Schubert was Typhoid Mary? No wonder he didn't finish that symphony.


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## KlassikerDronning

bagpipers said:


> I have never heard of anyone hating Schubert for having syphilis.It was common then,it's likely also what caused Beethoven's deafness.Beethoven also had small pox which was also common then.Queen Elizabeth I also bad small pox.
> All these things were common before antibiotics


And yes, I believe that is why Elizabeth I wore white makeup all the time too. I always liked the look with pink cheeks and red lips👄 💄


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## bagpipers

Animal the Drummer said:


> Schubert was Typhoid Mary? No wonder he didn't finish that symphony.


Is there evidence he spread syphilis?


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