# Democracy in music



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

The Toronto Symphony Orchestra has been polling people on its web site for some time, asking what they would most like to hear in concert. The idea was to schedule some "Audience Choice" concerts. Now there's one scheduled for January 26 and 27. The program:

"Hear a concert of music selected entirely by you, the audience! After weeks of voting and over 3,500 ballots cast, you have selected:

John Williams: Main Title from Star Wars
Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Mvt. II 
Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - Variation XVIII
Dvorak: Symphony No. 9 - Mvt. IV 
Barber: Adagio for Strings
Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture"

Comments?


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

KenOC said:


> The Toronto Symphony Orchestra has been polling people on its web site for some time, asking what they would most like to hear in concert. The idea was to schedule some "Audience Choice" concerts. Now there's one scheduled for January 26 and 27. The program:
> 
> "Hear a concert of music selected entirely by you, the audience! After weeks of voting and over 3,500 ballots cast, you have selected:
> 
> ...


Well.that'll teach them not to ask again won't it ?


----------



## Lunasong (Mar 15, 2011)

The one I would question from the general public is Beethoven 7 over B-5. 
If they were polling their core audience, that's the choice I find most likely.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Wonder who they are going to employ just to play variation 23? A short evenings work by the look of it!


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I suspect almost everyone here is a bit surprised by the choice of movements rather than full works. I assume the Toronto asked for movements because people don't normally suggest just one movement. Maybe they wanted more works on the schedule and purposely limited any long work to one movement.

Other than that observation, all those works (movements) are wonderful.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

KenOC said:


> The Toronto Symphony Orchestra has been polling people on its web site for some time, asking what they would most like to hear in concert. The idea was to schedule some "Audience Choice" concerts. Now there's one scheduled for January 26 and 27. The program:
> 
> "Hear a concert of music selected entirely by you, the audience! After weeks of voting and over 3,500 ballots cast, you have selected:
> 
> ...


Tonal music! That's what most folks want, with very catchy tunes.


----------



## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I hope this is just a gesture to their audience and not a trend. The Dvorak 9, movement 4 and the Star Wars theme are virtually the same piece. Same mood anyway. Maybe they'll at least give them the entire 1812 Overture and not just the loud part everyone knows.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

ArtMusic said:


> Tonal music! That's what most folks want, with very catchy tunes.


You weren't expecting to see Stockhausen, Boulez, or Elliott Carter, were you?


----------



## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

Lunasong said:


> The one I would question from the general public is Beethoven 7 over B-5.
> If they were polling their core audience, that's the choice I find most likely.


Three words: The King's Speech.

I see no problem with such a concert for the sake of $ and PR. And it may free them up from programming warhorses all season long to do a concert like this once a year.


----------



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm totally fine with it as long as they have ANOTHER concert devoted entirely to NEW compositions. Living composers need to eat.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

_*Yawn.....*_
_*Yawn.....*_
_*Yawn.....*_

Add: I should make some 'contribution' other than the above.

NB: perhaps the Rachmaninov estate gets a fragment of a shekel for ONE variation of a whole piece (copyright schedules on short segments being much different than if they had slated the entire piece.

*NB: *John Williams is the only composer who will directly benefit from a paid performance royalty.
*NB: *Main Title from Star Wars *~Segment, not even entire suite.*
*NB: *Symphony No. 7 - Mvt. II *~Segment.*
*NB: *Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - Var.XVIII *~Segment.*
*NB. *Symphony No. 9 - Mvt. IV *~Segment.*
Adagio for Strings ~ an *entire* *(but short)* work
1812 Overture ~ an *entire* _*(but short)*_ work

I'm surprised the participants had the attention span to complete the questionnaire 

But how disingenuous is the gesture on the part of the Orchestral management?

Asking may give people more of an impression 'they determined the program,' -- and they did, but, management certainly could have plucked this program, or chosen near identical, out of the air and it would also guarantee a 'popular' audience / client response....

There is nothing 'wrong' about any of the music in that program, well, if you don't count the smorgasbord selection of plucked sections of whole pieces as 'offensive.'

What it demonstrates to me (nothing new here) is that the arts, to stay 'fine' - cannot be left to the general democratic vote, nor as has proved out many places, political bureaucrats.

ADD 2: Where the market and audience are both large enough, some orchestras run 'pops' concerts during the summer season, sometimes in a venue other than their home. The Boston Pops is a subsidiary (or was) of the Boston Symphony, and is programmed to 'do what it does' while some of its revenue directly supports the BSO main non-pops season.

It is THE place for those film-score suites, the lighter classical fare, the extracts of 'favorite bits' of heavier duty repertoire, all in that olio of 'a bit of music' for entertainment. And who knows... _if the ticket prices are low enough,_ it may even net a few young people who otherwise have not yet heard 'live,' and those may get an appetite to come back for more.


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

starthrower said:


> You weren't expecting to see Stockhausen, Boulez, or Elliott Carter, were you?


No, of course not. Nobody/enough would go.


----------



## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

PetrB said:


> _*Yawn.....*_


I've seen this response elsewhere on the forum, and I've always been confused because I'm not really sure what the poster means. Could you perhaps elaborate?

I assume you're not bored with the thread itself (i.e. the posts). Are you bored by the works chosen? If so, do you think it's a bad idea to have an audience choice concert? Or is there something else you are referring to?


----------



## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I don't think voting works particularly well for something like this. There is an art in programming too. When you open it up to votes, then you are taking out the decision of selecting works specifically to go together in some manner that makes sense to the programmer, and hopefully the audience.


----------



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Wonder who they are going to employ just to play variation 23? A short evenings work by the look of it!


The orchestra's staff pianist is usually the one to play the solo on this sort of program (they are far more than 'adequate' and they are already on salary).

If there is a guest soloist it would usually be a local musician; if guest soloist, sometimes a local / or at least a national resident youngster who is beginning to make their way into the professional circuit.


----------



## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture isn't short, March of the Slaves should be more popular by people's logic because it is more cool and shorter...


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

The interesting thing is that all of those pieces are already being played by the orchestras ad-nauseam. But they want more!. It is the petit bourgeois mentality. Similar to those ubiquitous pop songs, they think that this same "logic" also should apply to classical music. I see absolutely no utility in this kind of polls. Populism is the killing of art.


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

moody said:


> Well.that'll teach them not to ask again won't it ?


hey, it could have been worse! :lol::


----------



## Truckload (Feb 15, 2012)

This looks like a really interesting concert. I would love to attend. It is also a very clever marketing idea. 

The modern orchestra in America is struggling. The costs keep rising, while revenue is not keeping up. Many are concerned that with the drastic cuts in music education in our schools the future audience for art music performance is in question. 

If new marketing ideas like this will help the professional orchestra to survive, I am all for it.


----------



## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

aleazk said:


> hey, it could have been worse! :lol::


Watch at your peril, aleazk:


----------



## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture isn't short, March of the Slaves should be more popular by people's logic because it is more cool and shorter...


It's geographical i.e. Slavic March.


----------



## arsnova (Jan 20, 2013)

Truckload said:


> This looks like a really interesting concert. I would love to attend. It is also a very clever marketing idea.
> 
> The modern orchestra in America is struggling. The costs keep rising, while revenue is not keeping up. Many are concerned that with the drastic cuts in music education in our schools the future audience for art music performance is in question.


But surely this is exactly the problem - if concert goers are only ever exposed to the music they know how on Earth will they ever be encouraged to explore music they don't know?

Classical music isn't dead, it's alive and kicking and whilst I applaud new ways of getting people to a concert hall, I'm never going to applaud an orchestra who just churns out the old 'classics' ad nauseum. What a bore.


----------



## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

PetrB said:


> ADD 2: Where the market and audience are both large enough, some orchestras run 'pops' concerts during the summer season, sometimes in a venue other than their home. The Boston Pops is a subsidiary (or was) of the Boston Symphony, and is programmed to 'do what it does' while some of its revenue directly supports the BSO main non-pops season.
> 
> It is THE place for those film-score suites, the lighter classical fare, the extracts of 'favorite bits' of heavier duty repertoire, all in that olio of 'a bit of music' for entertainment. And who knows... _if the ticket prices are low enough,_ it may even net a few young people who otherwise have not yet heard 'live,' and those may get an appetite to come back for more.


The Boston Pops is comprised of the same musicians as the BSO, minus the first chairs, who get to play as the "Boston Symphony Chamber Players". It has its own programming director, though, and they are kept relatively separate.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

If this kind of concert draws a lot of new listeners in, then I'm all for it - if it's something that the regular classical music crowd don't have to endure week after week... maybe an orchestra could pull this kind of thing off once or twice a year.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

arsnova said:


> But surely this is exactly the problem - if concert goers are only ever exposed to the music they know how on Earth will they ever be encouraged to explore music they don't know?
> 
> Classical music isn't dead, it's alive and kicking and whilst I applaud new ways of getting people to a concert hall, I'm never going to applaud an orchestra who just churns out the old 'classics' ad nauseum. What a bore.


Concerts are expensive and CDs are cheap. I'd rather explore music that is new to me via recordings, and then shell out the cash for the music I really want to hear live.

(Not that I'd pay anything to hear that concert.)


----------



## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

science said:


> Concerts are expensive and CDs are cheap. I'd rather explore music that is new to me via recordings, and then shell out the cash for the music I really want to hear live.
> 
> (Not that I'd pay anything to hear that concert.)


Interesting, since here to attend a concert I can usually pay a third the amount a CD would cost, though we don't get to hear much new music.


----------



## arsnova (Jan 20, 2013)

science said:


> Concerts are expensive and CDs are cheap. I'd rather explore music that is new to me via recordings, and then shell out the cash for the music I really want to hear live.
> 
> (Not that I'd pay anything to hear that concert.)


Fair enough. 
But surely this programme can be heard anywhere? These pieces are performed almost every week here i London. Personal I'd avoid this concert like the plague - if I am going to spend money on going to a concert I'd much rather it be one that's at least a bit different...


----------



## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

KenOC said:


> *The Toronto Symphony Orchestra...*


_Uhh...that's in Canada, right? Hockey, beer...

John Williams: Main Title from Star Wars (arr. for theatre organ): goes good with Hockey & beer...
Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Mvt. II (arr. for theatre organ): goes good with Hockey & beer...
Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini - Variation XVIII (arr. for theatre organ): goes good with Hockey & beer...
Dvorak: Symphony No. 9 - Mvt. IV (arr. for theatre organ): goes good with Hockey & beer...

Barber: Adagio for Strings...gotta allow time to hit the restroom...

Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture" (arr. for theatre organ): goes good with Hockey & beer...

_


----------

