# Concerto Grosso



## Guest

This is the first movement of a Concerto Grosso for string ensemble, plus a horn and oboe. The theme is a constant rotation through the circle of fifths. I am an almost completely self-taught composer so any input from those more educated than myself is welcome.


----------



## hreichgott

With the ongoing climb through the circle of fifths you kind of get a never-ending fanfare effect! You have an interesting mix of baroque and cinematic elements in your style. 

I have to admit being unable to hear the concerto grosso alternation between the soloists and the large ensemble, but that might just be the midi, it can be hard to convey a solo sound vs. a section sound.


----------



## Novelette

Hreichgott, you're right that midi files make it difficult to distinguish the parts.

Jerome, I like the very sprightly violin sections. Heavy on arpeggiated expansion, giving rise to an exuberant mood of optimism and an almost galloping energy. Hreichgott is right about lack of alternation of the parts. The horn and oboe would normally be "conversing" with the orchestra in an almost antiphonal manner. Sometimes strict alternation, sometimes tutti, etc.

The function of the horn and oboe here is mostly harmonic accompaniment. A few sequences of rhythmic sections emphasizing a single note, against a very active string section.

There are a few things you could do here:

1. You could switch the lines between the strings and the soloists. Let the strings accompany flatly the flashy lines of the soloists. You could easily break the jumpy line between the two soloists to create a very compelling and energetic conversation. Even making the two soloists speak mutually between each other and with the string section would especially exemplify the concerto grosso genre.

2. If you're happy with your composition as it is, then you could simply change the characterization from concerto grosso to sinfonia concertante. Generally, in the latter, the soloists have a less prominent role than in the former.

I like it. Please be sure to post more of your work as you finish it.

The most important thing about composition is that you like your own music. That's really all that matters.


----------



## Guest

Thanks for you input. It is encouraging. 
The horn and oboe were not intended as solo parts but as part of the ensemble. Perhaps I was not too clear on that. Bach's brandenburgs and Handel's Concerti Grosso were probably the biggest infulence on this, so Concerto Grosso seem right. The title of Sinfonia Concertant, for me, first brings to mind Mozart's work for violin and viola, K364, which certainly has solo material. 
I cannot write solo material due to a lack of knowledge of the instruments. Except maybe for piano. 
My biggest worry is that there maybe be passages that are unplayable, such as consecutive notes that are too difficult for a non-virtuosic string section. There are key signature changes about every 4 measures. I wonder if there is a way to publish the score on here so that someone trained could look it over for me... I will see about that in a few day when I return from vacation.
Againm thank you all for your input and encouragement.


----------



## hreichgott

Jerome said:


> My biggest worry is that there maybe be passages that are unplayable, such as consecutive notes that are too difficult for a non-virtuosic string section. There are key signature changes about every 4 measures.


Frequently-changing key signatures won't bother anyone who is accustomed to playing music written since 1900. It sounds like the underlying pulse remains the same, which makes things easier. Rapid consecutive notes on a single pitch (like at the beginning of your piece) are not that hard for strings. Rapid consecutive notes on moving pitches can be difficult depending on the intervals. If you're concerned, check with a string player. Maybe post a part on the strings forum here.



Jerome said:


> The horn and oboe were not intended as solo parts but as part of the ensemble.


The term "Concerto Grosso" means a piece for a small group of soloists surrounded by an orchestra, taking turns with an orchestra. "Concerto" (noun) or "Concertante" (adjective) means one or more featured soloists accompanied by an orchestra. Usually something called "concerto" is more of a starring role for the soloist, whereas "concertante" implies more integration between soloist and ensemble. Generally speaking.

In this day and age composers can title things however they want, so there's nothing wrong with the title, but calling this a "Concerto Grosso" is a bit like writing a piece for strings and then calling it "Piano Sonata."

Pieces for small orchestra could be called Sinfonias/Symphonies, Overtures, Suites, Serenades, some creative title like "Fanfare upon the Hills after Handel," the precisely descriptive "Piece for Small Orchestra," or really anything you can think of. In the baroque period "suite" meant a specified series of dance rhythms, but that isn't the case anymore.


----------



## Novelette

Jerome said:


> Thanks for you input. It is encouraging.
> The horn and oboe were not intended as solo parts but as part of the ensemble. Perhaps I was not too clear on that. Bach's brandenburgs and Handel's Concerti Grosso were probably the biggest infulence on this, so Concerto Grosso seem right. The title of Sinfonia Concertant, for me, first brings to mind Mozart's work for violin and viola, K364, which certainly has solo material.
> I cannot write solo material due to a lack of knowledge of the instruments. Except maybe for piano.
> My biggest worry is that there maybe be passages that are unplayable, such as consecutive notes that are too difficult for a non-virtuosic string section. There are key signature changes about every 4 measures. I wonder if there is a way to publish the score on here so that someone trained could look it over for me... I will see about that in a few day when I return from vacation.
> Againm thank you all for your input and encouragement.


Worry not, Jerome! As a violinist, I can assure you that the string sections are not unplayable. Difficult perhaps, but by no means impossible. You're doing great work; keep it up!

You might consider consulting a book about orchestration if you want to learn the capabilities and limitations of the various instruments. You could surely do no better than to obtain Berlioz's treatise on instrumentation:

http://www.amazon.com/Treatise-Inst...qid=1360629022&sr=8-13&keywords=orchestration

I studied that book years ago, and I happily recommend it. It speaks of the unique timbres and ranges of the most common, orchestral instruments.

It may not be directly pertinent, but you will generally find it the case that the particular properties of the string instruments make them prefer keys containing sharps, while the winds and brass generally prefer keys containing flats. The construction of those instruments make that rule of thumb generally true, with a few exceptions.

Like hreichgott said, frequent key changes aren't generally a concern in a work of music in our era. The instruments are commodious enough to accommodate such changes, and the tempo is reasonable enough to give every player a sense of direction.


----------



## Novelette

Also, repeated strikes of a single pitch in quick succession are very easy for the strings to accomplish.

Best of luck!


----------



## Guest

Novelette and hreichgott, thanks very much for the info. I'm going to leave my first movement unchanged and begin on the second. I am however rethinking the title. Maybe Chamber Symphony would be better.


----------



## Novelette

Absolutely, Jerome. It's a fairly small ensemble, and there's nothing wrong with that, and "Chamber Symphony" would be a great title.

Have you decided how you are going to arrange the movements? There's no wrong arrangement. You could make it two movements, or more. The originally Classical symphony was divided into four movements: the first of usually quick tempo, the second being the slow movement, the third being a minuet or a scherzo, and the finale being usually quick.

Sometimes the inner movements will be switched, the slow movement being the third rather than the second.


----------



## Guest

I've got an Andante planned for the second movement - a romantic melody in 4/4. Then I've got a spritely idea for the third. It has the feel of a march, but in 3/4 with the accent on the first beat. There are of course Baroque influences to both, without the bass continue. I wouldn't know how to write that and would prefer to fill in the harmonies myself anyway. I suppose my style has the feel of Baroque, with instrumentation closer to the Classical era. I have no theme in mind yet for the finale, but I will try to pull together themes from the previous three movements and tie it all together in sonata form with more lengthy development than in the first movement.


----------

