# Help needed



## jani

So a 3 weeks ago i made a serious decision to learn to sing. 
Because i want to play guitar too i need to divide my time.
( so its 2h for singing and 3h for guitar on weekdays)
Because i only have two hours to practice i need my practicing schedule to be as efficient as possible.
So all your tips, youtube links, Amazon Dvd/book links are welcome!

Thanks in advance!m


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## jani

jani said:


> So a 3 weeks ago i made a serious decision to learn to sing.
> Because i want to play guitar too i need to divide my time.
> ( so its 2h for singing and 3h for guitar on weekdays)
> Because i only have two hours to practice i need my practicing schedule to be as efficient as possible.
> So all your tips, youtube links, Amazon Dvd/book links are welcome!
> 
> Thanks in advance!m


I am a big fan of singers with a clean and powerful voice.

Here are some of my favorites.
Freddie mercury
Bono 
Dio
Anette Ollzon (ex nightwish singer)


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## Lunasong

Is your ultimate goal to sing while playing guitar?

ps I also love Freddie Mercury's voice.


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## PetrB

You'll need more practice time if you really hope to do both well.

The best place to find that is 'offline,' as in time spent cruising youtube for 'tutorials' (they're all as virtually useless as the medium itself is virtual) and 'sacrificing' time spent watching or listening to other entertainments, Television, films, etc.

Cut out the amount of time, if you're younger and average, you spend online, texting, facebook, etc. and all of a sudden you find yourself remarkably 'less busy' with all that, and then having the time to dedicate for practice of both voice and guitar.

The most 'powerful' voices you want to learn from are none of those who depended on a microphone in performance....


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## Guest

jani said:


> I am a big fan of singers with a clean and powerful voice.
> 
> Here are some of my favorites.
> Freddie mercury
> Bono
> Dio
> Anette Ollzon (ex nightwish singer)


And you regard these as your ideals????


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## jani

Andante said:


> And you regard these as your ideals????





Lunasong said:


> Is your ultimate goal to sing while playing guitar?
> 
> ps I also love Freddie Mercury's voice.


I was raised with popular music.
My goal is to be able to sing and play guitar at the sametime and being the frontman or one them of the band.
I want to be a rock/hardrock singer&guitarist.
I don't want to be a classical singer or sing in a choir or sing opera.


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## Guest

Fair enough McDuff! best of luck


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## Vaneyes

Tommy James could sell a song as well as any. You're only half way there with the voice. Good luck, and have fun. :tiphat:


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## Lunasong

1. Are you charismatic or attractive enough to attract females? Savvy bands want a frontman that appeals to the opposite gender to broaden their appeal.
2. I personally find it difficult to play anything except rhythm guitar while singing. Playing lead or playing bass requires a different part of my brain. It's almost like reading and talking at the same time; I can't do it. That said, I know there are several successful singers (Sting, Geddy Lee, et al.; not as familiar with guitar examples) who can do it. If you want to sing & play you may have to overcome this hurdle.
3. Some of the more fun times in my life were when I played bass in a band. We were good enough to make ourselves happy and play in public about once a month and that was our goal. It really does require a driven personality to make it at even a regional level. Are you already hooked up with a potential band?
4. You don't have to be an excellent singer, but you do have to be in tune. The most important aspect of pop or rock singing is to internalize the song and make it your own. Have character!
5. Take every opportunity you can get to sing in front of people.


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## Head_case

jani said:


> I was raised with popular music.
> My goal is to be able to sing and play guitar at the sametime and being the frontman or one them of the band.
> I want to be a rock/hardrock singer&guitarist.
> I don't want to be a classical singer or sing in a choir or sing opera.


I guess that's a fair point....I've never seen a singer-guitarist being at the back of a band 
Equally, your neighbours will be relieved you don't want to become an opera singer 

I used to want to be in a boy band too, but fronting a string quartet was seen as too weird in kindergarten. In fact, it probably wasn't until Elvis Costello did it with the Brodsky Quartet, did it actually become cross-over cool:










As for tips...do you mean...donations lol.

All I could ever hope to offer as advice is this: what message is burning inside you so much that you wish to communicate it? Do you know what you want to say through your own lyrics (and if you don't write your own, why not!).


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## jani

Lunasong said:


> 1. Are you charismatic or attractive enough to attract females? Savvy bands want a frontman that appeals to the opposite gender to broaden their appeal.
> 2. I personally find it difficult to play anything except rhythm guitar while singing. Playing lead or playing bass requires a different part of my brain. It's almost like reading and talking at the same time; I can't do it. That said, I know there are several successful singers (Sting, Geddy Lee, et al.; not as familiar with guitar examples) who can do it. If you want to sing & play you may have to overcome this hurdle.
> 3. Some of the more fun times in my life were when I played bass in a band. We were good enough to make ourselves happy and play in public about once a month and that was our goal. It really does require a driven personality to make it at even a regional level. Are you already hooked up with a potential band?
> 4. You don't have to be an excellent singer, but you do have to be in tune. The most important aspect of pop or rock singing is to internalize the song and make it your own. Have character!
> 5. Take every opportunity you can get to sing in front of people.


1. I think that i look average but some days better than average men´, Of course i could use some grooming .
I am actually also studying body language since it makes most of our communication on social situation. 
2. Working on it
3. Not yet but i have a goal to have a even a small income from music before the next summer, ( A cover band maybe i would get some needed live experience.)
4. Yes this really helped my with my decision to do this.
I actually wanted to be a singer before i wanted to play guitar, but when i told this to my parents they really didn't take notice and they bought some video games wich kept me busy for a while.
Actually my elementary school music teacher said that i had a good voice but then puberty hit me.
5. I will!


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## Vaneyes

Mick Jagger, a so-so singer, far too skinny, clown lips, *dancer*. It's gyrations that most women want to see. Elvis the Pelvis. Tom "Panties" Jones, James "Godfather of Soul" Brown, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, etc, etc, etc. Passive works for about ten minutes. Then you better exhibit something, that proves you're not dead.

If you don't like dancing, better forget about being a lead singer.


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## jani

Vaneyes said:


> Mick Jagger, a so-so singer, far too skinny, clown lips, *dancer*. It's gyrations that most women want to see. Elvis the Pelvis. Tom "Panties" Jones, James "Godfather of Soul" Brown, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, etc, etc, etc. Passive works for about ten minutes. Then you better exhibit something, that proves you're not dead.
> 
> If you don't like dancing, better forget about being a lead singer.


Do sexy pelvic thrusts count as dancing :lol:?


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## jani

jani said:


> Do sexy pelvic thrusts count as dancing :lol:?


I am thinking being more like 
Paul Stanley








Alexi Laiho








Dave Mustaine








Dave Grohl








All of them are lead singers& guitarists.


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## Vaneyes

No, holding an instrument greatly inhibits...to something not much more than chair-dancing.


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## jani

I wonder if spandex would enchance my sexyness.


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## Head_case

jani said:


> I wonder if spandex would enchance my sexyness.


That depends if you're bald or not :lol:


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## Vaneyes




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## jani

On this week and a half i have made a major progress. 
I barely feel any strain, i know loads of warm ups and great throat and breathing exercises etc...
But i haven't been able to find a vocal coach, so until i find one the best way to secure my faster development would be to buy a vocal mic so i can record myself and hear my biggest flaws when i listen to the recording.


So my question is, do i only to need a vocal mic and a cable to record my singing to my laptop?
Or do i need a interface?

I am on a budget and once again all your recommendations are more than welcome !


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## clavichorder

Once you reach a certain level that seems okay, find some people and find some people to perform for. There isn't anything like real experience to work on your stuff.


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## Vaneyes

Retirement homes are often easy access performing venues, as long as you don't frighten us...er...them.


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## jani

Vaneyes said:


> Retirement homes are often easy access performing venues, as long as you don't frighten us...er...them.


Do they like devils music/porn rock?


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## Head_case

Definitely. Those in the retirement homes will have been there, done that and will even fight you for the spandex you're wearing over your head.

Btw - if you're into mic recording, check out the Zoom H4N Handy Recorder:










Professional grade stereo mics which you can rotate to change the field from 0 to 120 degrees; multi-track capability so you can add instruments and layer the vocals; great sound quality on multi-digital formats like .wav, .mp3 etc and USB synch with your laptop. What's great is it is portable, you can carry it with you and just sing into it wherever you are.

Love mine.


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## clavichorder

jani said:


> Do they like devils music/porn rock?


If they are the same in Finland as they are here, I would imagine there is a general aversion to loud and sexualized things.

Maybe some other place...


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## jani

clavichorder said:


> If they are the same in Finland as they are here, I would imagine there is a general aversion to loud and sexualized things.
> 
> Maybe some other place...


With porn rock i mainly mean hair metal from the 80s. PMCR started to call glam metal "porn rock"


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## jani

Head_case said:


> Definitely. Those in the retirement homes will have been there, done that and will even fight you for the spandex you're wearing over your head.
> 
> Btw - if you're into mic recording, check out the Zoom H4N Handy Recorder:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Professional grade stereo mics which you can rotate to change the field from 0 to 120 degrees; multi-track capability so you can add instruments and layer the vocals; great sound quality on multi-digital formats like .wa .mp3 etc and USB synch with your laptop. What's great is it is portable, you can carry it with you and just sing into it wherever you are.
> 
> Love mine.


Could you give me a small sample of the quality?


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## jani

I decided that i am gonna buy a shure sm58 tomorrow, so have i understood right.
The mic and the cables should be enough for simple recording?


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## Guest

Head_case said:


> Definitely. Those in the retirement homes will have been there, done that and will even fight you for the spandex you're wearing over your head.


They look like aliens about to mate....


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## jani

So i just got my mic, but i need to wait for my interface for a week.
I was able to record and get a signal when i used my Line 6 pod hd300 as a interface, but it only has Bass&guitar preamps so the results were quite "exciting".
I decided to buy AKG D5 instead of the shure sm58 ( Mainly because of my budget.)


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## Vaneyes

Any idea when/where your first public performance might be?


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## jani

Vaneyes said:


> Any idea when/where your first public performance might be?


My first performance as a vocalist is gonna probably be in middle of Helsinki, THAT'S RIGHT I AM THIKING OF BUSKING!!! Play some rock classics etc...


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## Guest

jani said:


> My first performance as a vocalist is gonna probably be in middle of Helsinki, THAT'S RIGHT I AM THIKING OF BUSKING!!! Play some rock classics etc...


What ever you perform busking must be a valuable experience .. good luck


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## Head_case

Depends if you have a licence or not. 

In most cities, you need to apply for one to demonstrate that you can at least sing lol. I think it's more a criterion for adjudicators to decide whether there will be a downturn in the tourism industry if they let certain buskers loose on the public


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## jani

Head_case said:


> Depends if you have a licence or not.
> 
> In most cities, you need to apply for one to demonstrate that you can at least sing lol. I think it's more a criterion for adjudicators to decide whether there will be a downturn in the tourism industry if they let certain buskers loose on the public


I am gonna have to wait few months to do that, so i have time to practice.


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## Guest

Head_case said:


> Depends if you have a licence or not.
> 
> In most cities, you need to apply for one to demonstrate that you can at least sing lol.


Absolutely ridiculous the passers by will soon let you know, what! with that and the PC brigade all the fun of living is being whittled away


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## Head_case

Terrible, isn't it? 

I'm not shy when it comes to performing....I just get so into the music that people disappear before me, and the music invites me in its flow until I'm completely stoned out mesmerised by the music.

I practice the flute outdoors wherever I can - apparently it is illegal for anyone to make a donation for me, otherwise I will be arrested. 

That's a great way for the audience to do away with me and my haunting fourth octave ethereal pitch spookiness :lol:


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## Guest

You can get 4 octaves move over Galway


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## Head_case

Of coz. 

Baroque traverso spanned from low D to 3rd octave A (less than 3 full octaves).

The romantic (conical) flute extended the range with a C foot up to high A. 

The Boehm flute design extended the range from the low C to the high B. 

Recent designs enabling venting of the upper holes, permitted the high C (4th octave). 

Add a low B foot joint, and hey presto! 3 full octaves + 1 note, into the 4th octave range


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## Vaneyes

jani said:


> I am gonna have to wait few months to do that, so i have time to practice.


What object are you going to use for your gratuities? May I suggest a clear plastic bowl, and kick-start it with some paper currency as well as coins. If you have it, of course.


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## Head_case

One of these: you'll be loaded and then you can cycle home on your bicycle wearing the sombrera


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## Head_case

Hmmm. Maybe a sombrera isn't big enough to carry all the millions you'll rake in from the first day of busking (never underestimate how much you could earn).

How about a deeper hat:










And to complete the heavy metal rock star look and pull in the $$$:


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## Vaneyes

Those hats. More appropriate for a male stripper, doncha think?


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## Head_case

Vaneyes said:


> Those hats. More appropriate for a male stripper, doncha think?


Hmmm. Are you suggesting a new occupation for me whilst I play the flute, in order to rake in my first $ ??? :lol:


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## Vaneyes

That's it, fo' this schtick.


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## Head_case

why.......why......! I'll show you...! I'll show you well...! I'll show 'em all!












And then I'll get arrested for public nudity in the woods


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## jani

Vaneyes said:


> What object are you going to use for your gratuities? May I suggest a clear plastic bowl, and kick-start it with some paper currency as well as coins. If you have it, of course.


I am gonna use a guitar case, then i am gonna learn to dance like Elvis ------>Women can't resist me after that all that= Jani Happy.


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## Guest

Head_case said:


> Of coz.
> 
> Baroque traverso spanned from low D to 3rd octave A (less than 3 full octaves).
> 
> The romantic (conical) flute extended the range with a C foot up to high A.
> 
> The Boehm flute design extended the range from the low C to the high B.
> 
> Recent designs enabling venting of the upper holes, permitted the high C (4th octave).
> 
> Add a low B foot joint, and hey presto! 3 full octaves + 1 note, into the 4th octave range


What I meant was that you must be a good Flautist to get 4 8ve I could only manage 3 1/2 at a pinch with the std foot, and on my Baroque 2 1/2 was good for me


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## jani

I finally learned to hit those notes (I can FEEEL; FEEEEL) without any strain.*
( Start watching at 1:39)


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## Lunasong

jani said:


> I wonder if spandex would enchance my sexyness.


Posting pictures will help us judge. :guitar:


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## Head_case

Andante said:


> What I meant was that you must be a good Flautist to get 4 8ve I could only manage 3 1/2 at a pinch with the std foot, and on my Baroque 2 1/2 was good for me


Good? :lol:

Irritating??

Yessssss :lol:


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## jani

Does anyone know any good exercises for making my head voice better.
I would really appreciate it.


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## clavichorder

My teacher always tells me that a near yawning sensation is necessary for a nice sounding and not straining head voice. Probably not the only component. Definitely do not push yourself too hard because pushing high notes consistently is how vocal nodes can develop(very bad).


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## jani

Should get my interface tomorrow.


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## jani

clavichorder said:


> My teacher always tells me that a near yawning sensation is necessary for a nice sounding and not straining head voice. Probably not the only component. Definitely do not push yourself too hard because pushing high notes consistently is how vocal nodes can develop(very bad).


I know it sounds weird, but one vocal coach on YT said that you should think that you are going down when you try to sing high.
It really works, because of it i won't raise my larynx so much etc.

On these 3 weeks of practice my biggest improvements have been on my vocal freedom&range etc...
Taking off the starin, breathing (Not my strongest are but i am working for it)
Yesterday i learned about vocal resonance and it improved my tone.


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## jani

I got my interface and recorded.
My voice sounds little better than i expected ( It sounds dark blue&Violet) my it lacks the power i want.
Maybe in two weeks i am willing to share my voice for evaluation.

The biggest fault i notice is that it sounds like i am starin, but i don't feel any strain.


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## Vaneyes

Power, projection are important. Re busking, any municipal rules/restrictions on amplification?


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## jani

Vaneyes said:


> Power, projection are important. Re busking, any municipal rules/restrictions on amplification?


I get power when i develop a better breath support.


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## jani

How dangerous it really is for the voice to sing when you have a flu? 
Can i sing a little or not at all?


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## Vaneyes

jani said:


> How dangerous it really is for the voice to sing when you have a flu?
> Can i sing a little or not at all?


Probably not the strongest idea, since your head will vibrate, hurt, and issue a false voice.


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## jani

Went to the library today, i borrowed The ultimate beginner series ROCK VOCALS.


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## jani

Today i learned how to add little bit of that rock grit it to my voice, it immediately brought me a major improvement to my voice. I actually think if i keep practicing with that small grit and make my voice more stronger i can make my voice enjoyable to hear ( If you like rock music).


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## jani

there used to be post around here somewere.


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## Lunasong

jani said:


> there used to be post around here somewere.


Yah, I didn't have time the day you posted it so I came back today to check it out and....it's gone.


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## jani

Lunasong said:


> Yah, I didn't have time the day you posted it so I came back today to check it out and....it's gone.


Well its better that way, it didn't sound as good as i thought it would at first.
I really need a vocal coach, and some more practice time.
But thanks the interest.
Since i am already good at guitar and i am tired of playing alone, i am more concentrated to learning how to make better quality recordings so i can put up a demo and find musicians who want to start a band and want to make same kinda music as i do( melodic hard rock/metal with strong guitar presence + NO FANTASY LYRICS, Colorful melodies+ more than just power chord rhythms, I think that 7th chords on clean guitar sound kinda sexy), but i am still practicing vocals daily.


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