# Exploring Dvorak's Symphonies besides the 9th



## Celloissimo

Call me a pleb, but the only Dvorak Symphony I've listened to, as you may have guessed from the thread title, is the 9th. I hear very little of the other symphonies and they rarely come up in performances in my area or even recordings when I'm perusing around my local library's classical CD collection, which is quite massive. What are some symphonies I could be directed towards, as well as recordings? 

And also out of curiosity, why isn't the rest of the Dvorak cycle ever seem to be in the limelight?


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## KenOC

I think the Dvorak symphonies are generally pretty popular, though maybe not around here so much. #6 through #9 are all excellent, and a couple of the earlier ones have their fans. There is quite a difference of opinion re the Kertesz and the Kubelik cycles at another place -- I personally recommend Kertesz.


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## Ukko

#3 and 5-9 are all good. Check out the 6th; the 3rd mvt usually makes me chuckle - but then a lot of stuff does that, so YMMV.


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## DiesIraeCX

I second everything KenOC said. Kertesz has the magic touch with Dvorak. Kublelik's is equally revered, if not more so. They both have very valid things to say about Dvorak's symphonies, especially #8 and #9. I'd give them both a try and see which one speaks to you the most. Perhaps #7 or #8 since you've already heard #9.


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## Vaneyes

Dvorak was finding his symphonic way with Nos. 1 - 4...but you are too, so don't ignore. There's significant original artistry in Nos. 5 - 9, and all should be included in a personal collection.

The composer's cycle has not been ignored with recordings. Kertesz, Jarvi, Suitner are three of the most mentioned. My favorite is Suitner.

For single CDs, don't pass up listening to No. 5 w. Oslo PO/Jansons (EMI), Nos. 6 & 8 w. VPO/Chung (DG), No. 7 w. NYPO/Bernstein (Sony), No. 9 w. ACO/Harnoncourt (Teldec), VPO/Kertesz (Decca).:tiphat:


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## elgar's ghost

Maybe there's a bittersweet aspect to the 9th's lofty standing - yes, it's a fine work and has been hugely popular ever since its premier, but perhaps there's an element of the fact that it was also the final symphony of a man who at the time was as much well-loved as a person as he was a composer. Dvorak's relatively swift demise when he seemed to be at the peak of his powers shook the musical world quite badly. So maybe since then the 9th has served some kind of memorial purpose as much as anything else even though it was composed nine years before he died due to his concentrating primarily on opera in his final years.

As regards the others, it's really the 4th where Dvorak's real individual qualities start to show, some Wagnerian flourishes notwithstanding. The first three symphonies have their fans, but it's really nos 5-9 that confirmed him as a great symphonist. The 7th is notable for being overall more turbulent than the other mature ones. My advice is to listen to nos 4-8 in turn, so then after a while you will be able to set them in context to the 9th. If the interest is still there, listen to the first three in order to gain an idea as to how he cut his orchestral teeth. Happy listening.


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## Celloissimo

How do the first three symphonies differ from the middle ones (i.e. 4th, 5th, 6th) in terms of skill level or maturity exactly? I would still love to check these out, by the way.

For example, I'm listening to the opening of the 1st and I'm quite enjoying it actually.


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## Rangstrom

I often go back to the Monteux recording of the 7th.


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## Alypius

The Kertesz has just recently been reissued (in an expanded edition). 9 CDs, $30 via Amazon sellers. One of my best purchases of the year.










While I respect Kubelik's fine cycle, I prefer Kertesz's.


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## KenOC

Vaneyes said:


> The composer's cycle has not been ignored with recordings. Kertesz, Jarvi, Suitner are three of the most mentioned.


Another popular cycle is Rowicki with the LSO, but it seems a bit flabby to my ears. Sorry Withold, had to say it!


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## StlukesguildOhio

Dvorak is probably the last really major composer whose work I got around to finally exploring. I still haven't picked up his operas, Rusalka... in spite of loving _"Měsíčku na nebi hlubokém"_ (the famous "Song to the Moon" for years, and having heard the whole opera in broadcast from the Metropolitan Opera last year. I'm also just really delving into his chamber music.

I owned and loved Rafael Kubelik's iconic recording of the 8th and 9th for years but only got around to purchasing a complete symphonic cycle about 2 years ago. I went with Otmar Suitner's set which I quite like... yet I have also picked up individual recordings by Kubelik, George Szell, and Vaclav Talich. I will probably get around to a second complete cycle... probably Istvan Kertesz'... sometime soon.

While the later symphonies are brilliant... worthy heir of Beethoven and worthy peers of Brahms, Tchaikovsky, and Bruckner... I could set about exploring them all. I suspect that just as with the early symphonies of Bruckner, Tchaikovsky, and Schubert, you will find things that you love... perhaps even fall in love with one of the "lesser" symphonies as a whole as I love Tchaikovsky's first.


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## nightscape

Symphony No. 6 (Mackerras/Czech Phil) is an absolute must.
Symphony No. 7 (Davis/Royal Concertgebouw)
Symphony No. 8 (Dohnanyi/Cleveland)

For 1-5 I'm a fan of Neumann/Czech.


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## Art Rock

You could do worse than simply counting down in your sequence of exploring them. 9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1. Dvorak is one of the few symphonists (maybe the only one for me) where the next symphony is almost always just a bit better than the previous one. But I think they are all worth listening to.


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## Radames

I hear the 8th all the time. The 7th gets played less in concert. I think it's harder to play. I remember a violinist telling me how hard it was to prepare for that when the orchestra he plays for did it a few years ago. But it gets recorded a lot. It's so different than most Dvorak. Dark and angry! 6 is getting it;s due lately. It's really and unheralded masterpiece. His 5th Symphony is a mature work and while it may not quite be a masterpiece it is so tuneful that I consider it in my top 20 list of symphonies. The only one I don't like much at all is 2.

Hard to go wrong with the Keresz recordings. In individual recordings I really like the Jarvi 5th and 6th. Maazel 7th. The old Szell 8th. Solti 9th. Also the Karel Ančerl 9th for a real Czech experience.


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## HaydnBearstheClock

The 4th and 7th are also very good - both melodically, dynamically and in terms of orchestration. I've recently started exploring these symphonies and am very glad I did. His symphonic style appealed quite quickly to me and I didn't need much of an 'incubation period' to get into them.


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## Haydn man

I would certainly agree that symphonies 5-9 are all well worth listening to and I enjoy each of them
I have recently completed purchases of the earlier symphonies and now have the full set by Jarvi and the SNO and I would heartily recommend them


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## jim prideaux

Like many others I was always under the impression that Dvorak was all about the 9th and maybe the 8th but as I listened more and more to various interpretations of the earlier symphonies it became increasingly obvious that this was at best a simplification. The 5th 6th and 7th are equally rewarding (particularly the 7th,the work I listen to with the greatest frequency) and I am increasingly of the opinion that the early symphonies are too easily discounted. Admittedly the influence of Wagner might be obvious, and sections can meander without the concise development of the mature works but listen to the 2nd movement of the 3rd-it is quite simply beautiful!
The recent complete cycle (including the concertos) recorded by Beholavek and the Czech Phil is superb, but I have found individual recordings of various symphonies by Harnoncourt, Jarvi and Ancerl to be impressive-Harnoncourt and the Concertgebouw performing the 7th is (to my ears anyway)tremendous.i must admit that unlike many others I have not heard the Kertesz interpretations and am aware that this is a serious failing, although one I will rectify.
Two further points-I can recommend Josef Skorvecky's novel Dvorak in Love-the tribute of a fellow Czech which is enlightening and entertaining in equal measure........... 
finally-I sometimes wonder whether Dvorak is a little too easily 'looked down upon'-the provincial tunesmith (he did after all train as a butcher apparently)who had a melodic and rhythmic gift without the necessary intellectual 'weight'-but that is only an impression I pick up in certain quarters and it is undoubtedly a mistake!


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## Pip

I first heard the Seventh at the Edinburgh Festival in 1966 with Barbirolli and the Halle, and it "knocked my socks off". 
I still listen to his commercial recording of it and the great Cleveland/Szell recording as well more than any others, it is a symphony with dark hues and colours and I find it probably his best symphony followed by 9, 8 and 6.












.
The Barbirolli set is a wonderful way to learn the 7th and 8th, very cheap these days, recorded in the late 50s, but still great.
Szell's Dvorak is also of the highest calibre. Pity that his Masterworks Heritage set of 7-9 is NLA.
For a complete set recommendation - either Kertesz on Decca or Kubelik on DGG. Kubelik being about as authentic as one can get. He also re-recorded nos 6 to 9 with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on the Orfeo label (these are even better - but are still at full price).


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## jim prideaux

Pip said:


> I first heard the Seventh at the Edinburgh Festival in 1966 with Barbirolli and the Halle, and it "knocked my socks off".
> I still listen to his commercial recording of it and the great Cleveland/Szell recording as well more than any others, it is a symphony with dark hues and colours and I find it probably his best symphony followed by 9, 8 and 6.
> View attachment 51624
> View attachment 51625
> .
> The Barbirolli set is a wonderful way to learn the 7th and 8th, very cheap these days, recorded in the late 50s, but still great.
> Szell's Dvorak is also of the highest calibre. Pity that his Masterworks Heritage set of 7-9 is NLA.
> For a complete set recommendation - either Kertesz on Decca or Kubelik on DGG. Kubelik being about as authentic as one can get. He also re-recorded nos 6 to 9 with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on the Orfeo label (these are even better - but are still at full price).


from my perspective this is a particularly interesting and helpful post as it is obviously a reflection of a lengthy exposure to.and careful consideration of the varied recordings of the symphonies-it is only in recent years that I have really gone beyond the 9th (a work which I came to dismiss as hackneyed through familiarity-much to my shame!)-my previous post reflects my recent listening to essentially more recent recordings-I had no idea about the Barbirolli or Szell recordings!

so-Thanks!


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## csacks

The problem for the first 5 symphonies is that 6-7-8-and 9 are very good symphonies. Composers, like writers, doctors, lawyers and teachers tend to evolve during his life, so it is always interesting to me to have the chance to analyze that. Except for Mozart and Haydn, who probably wrote a symphony per week, changes can be noticed.
I had some old versions of the 9th to 7th (Dorati and Ormandy conducting LSO), and bought the complete set by Rafael Kubelik and Berlier Philharmoniker, so my experience with the first 6 of them is reduced to this single record.
In my childhood, we had an old "Quadrafonic" receiver by Grundig, located next to the fire place. A LP with the 9th, no idea who was playing it , and Stanley Black conducting something called "Music of a People", with jewish music were my father´s favorites. Both of them bring me warm memories about home and childhood.


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## Couac Addict

The later symphonies are a good starting place. 
I favour Jansons/Oslo for the 5th and 7th. Belohlavek/Czech for the 6th. Kubelik/8th and 9th.

Whilst Kertész/LSO wouldn't be my first choice, he was very consistent and possibly the best choice for a cycle.


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## Guest

Neumann with the Czech Philharmonic on the Supraphon label is my current favorite for the symphonies - I love the 7th through the 9th, in particular.


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## hpowders

csacks said:


> The problem for the first 5 symphonies is that 6-7-8-and 9 are very good symphonies. Composers, like writers, doctors, lawyers and teachers tend to evolve during his life, so it is always interesting to me to have the chance to analyze that. Except for Mozart and Haydn, who probably wrote a symphony per week, changes can be noticed.
> I had some old versions of the 9th to 7th (Dorati and Ormandy conducting LSO), and bought the complete set by Rafael Kubelik and Berlier Philharmoniker, so my experience with the first 6 of them is reduced to this single record.
> In my childhood, we had an old "Quadrafonic" receiver by Grundig, located next to the fire place. A LP with the 9th, no idea who was playing it , and Stanley Black conducting something called "Music of a People", with jewish music were my father´s favorites. Both of them bring me warm memories about home and childhood.


Yeah. Similar to Tchaikovsky. The problem with symphonies #'s 1-3 are the great symphonies 4-6.


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## samurai

hpowders said:


> Yeah. Similar to Tchaikovsky. The problem with symphonies #'s 1-3 are the great symphonies 4-6.


Hi, Howard. I have to disagree with you on this. Namely--at least for me--Tchaikovsky's first three symphonies are every bit as melodic and passionate as his final three, though perhaps in a different way --thinking specifically of the "Pathetique" here--albeit no less effective and emotionally moving.


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## hpowders

samurai said:


> Hi, Howard. I have to disagree with you on this. Namely--at least for me--Tchaikovsky's first three symphonies are every bit as melodic and passionate as his final three, though perhaps in a different way --thinking specifically of the "Pathetique" here--albeit no less effective and emotionally moving.


Hi there!
Okay, but I bet the majority of Tchaikovsky symphony listeners concentrate on #'s 4-6. It's an unfair world.


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## Triplets

Dvorak was a Composer who seemed to hit his stride in mid Creative Life. There are some great pieces in his earlier Compositions but you have to sift through some silt there to fund the gold nuggets. If you don't know his Symphonies beyond the New World, I would leave 1 through 5 for a later time. Dvorak himself tried to suppress 1-4 after he wrote his later works.
8 is just as great as the NW. 7 is more Brahmsian but is excellent. 6 is a sunnier work that is perhaps just a notch below the last 3, but in the right hands can be very satisfying. 5 is a bit more transitional, as the Composer was shedding some earlier influences and finding his own voice.
I would get to know 6, 7, & 8, and then decide if you want to go further. There have been good recommendations here. My personal favorites:

6-Karel Ancerl/Czech PO on Supraphon.
7-Pierre Monteux/London SO
8- George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra


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## csacks

Triplets said:


> 7 is more Brahmsian *but* is excellent.


I would say "7 is more Brahmsian *so* is excellent" 
Please lets we put things in perspective:tiphat:


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## jimsumner

I'm glad to see the appreciation of Dvorak's 7th. It's my favorite of the cycle. There's a sense of struggle in this that isn't always evident in his other symphonies.


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## bassClef

I enjoy the 7th just as much as the 9th. It's a very uplifting symphony.


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## mtmailey

I love all his symphonies but certain ones i like less like numbers 2,5, & 3.People focus on#9 to much though.


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## mikey

Oddly enough, the 9th is generally regarded as the weakest of the mature symphonies, with top honours going to no.7. I'll leave that up to the critics to debate.
After having heard the 3rd on the radio, I've become very fond of it. No.8 has an amazing slow movt.


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## nightscape

No. 8 has an amazing everything movement.


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## mtmailey

mikey said:


> Oddly enough, the 9th is generally regarded as the weakest of the mature symphonies, with top honours going to no.7. I'll leave that up to the critics to debate.
> After having heard the 3rd on the radio, I've become very fond of it. No.8 has an amazing slow movt.


ODD IS RIGHT but it depends on who likes it so someones opinion does not really matter.


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## Vaneyes

I've been touting this Symphony 7 rec. for many years. Do give it a try, if you have not.:tiphat:


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## Funny

People have already mentioned the 8th, my favorite, and the third, 'furiant' movement of the 6th, so I will just take this opportunity to note for anyone who's unaware that back when I started collecting records as a teenager in the 70s you would very often still find Dvorak's 9th called "Symphony #5." I'm glad we have, as a culture, pretty much shaken off the remnants of that old confusion (due to Dvorak not publishing the first four originally).


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## Markbridge

I cut my teeth with the Kertesz set in the '70s. All but the 2nd I think are wonderful. I currently have the Kertesz, Rowicki, and Suitner (my perfences in that order)(also have some individual recordings of the last three). Regardless of which set you end up with, enjoy the music, they're all delightful and upbeat. I think Tchaikovsky, at times, comes across as somewhat depressing. That's why I prefer his first three symphonies.


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## Shibooty

My personal favorite is the 8th; its 4th movement is comprised of what I consider to be several interesting sequences woven throughout the movement and passed off amongst sections. When I first listened to it, I was so surprised by the end (the last minute or so), I thought it to be the most unbelievable, action-packed "plot twist" if you will. 
When I listen to his 1st symphony, I think it is comparable to a Haydn symphony in its structure and some melodic patterns.


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## Olias

Love the 8th. Mackerras has a fantastic LIVE recording (paired with the 9th) that is superb.


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## Dave Whitmore

I've only really listened to his 8th and 8th symphonies. Now I'm curious to try the 7th. I love this forum. As a relative newcomer to classical music I've already found so much more music to listen to,


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## Itullian

Vaneyes said:


> I've been touting this Symphony 7 rec. for many years. Do give it a try, if you have not.:tiphat:


Love the 7th and that recording.


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## TresPicos

mikey said:


> Oddly enough, the 9th is generally regarded as the weakest of the mature symphonies, with top honours going to no.7. I'll leave that up to the critics to debate.


In my opinion, the 6th, 7th and 8th outshine the 9th - and almost all other symphonies ever written.


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## nightscape

Dave Whitmore said:


> I've only really listened to his 8th and 8th symphonies.


We get it, you love the 8th! 

In all seriousness though, definitely check out the 6th and 7th. The former is very melodic, engaging, energetic and has a lot of character. Can't recommend it enough.


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## hpowders

Dave Whitmore said:


> I've only really listened to his 8th and 8th symphonies. Now I'm curious to try the 7th. I love this forum. As a relative newcomer to classical music I've already found so much more music to listen to,


I'm sure you meant to write "his 8th and 9th symphonies."


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## Brahmsian Colors

Itullian said:


> Love the 7th and that recording.


I did try this interpretation not that long ago, after ignoring it for many years. It joins Szell's Cleveland version as my favorite Dvorak Seventh.


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## Brahmsian Colors

In response to Vaneyes encouraging others to listen to Bernstein's Dvorak 7th Symphony....and Itullian's touting it:

I did try this interpretation not that long ago, after ignoring it for many years. It joins Szell's Cleveland version as my favorite Dvorak Seventh.:tiphat:


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## Merl

KenOC said:


> Another popular cycle is Rowicki with the LSO, but it seems a bit flabby to my ears. Sorry Withold, had to say it!


Ditto. Never been a fan of that particular cycle. If you're starting out discovering Dvorak's other symphonies I'd work backwards, tbh. The 8th, to my ears, has always been just as accessible as the 9th.


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## nightscape

I haven't come across a convincing complete Dvorak cycle.


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## Merl

nightscape said:


> I haven't come across a convincing complete Dvorak cycle.


What do you think of Neumann's 2 cycles and that of Belohlavek? I rate all of these very highly.


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## Heck148

Dvorak symphonies are wonderful to explore....my favorite is #6...tho 4,7,8 and 9 are all most enjoyable.

#9 is most popular, but #8 gets a lot of performances, and #6 has gained popularity recently. it seems to get increased playing time. #7 is great also, a bit darker than 6 and 8....#4 is delightful, and should receive much more attention. alll of Dvorak's symphonies are good - 1,2,35 all deserve more exposure.


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## Pugg

Give me István Kertész any day of the week.


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## Judith

I love his 8th. Saw it performed live at a concert one year and was beautiful.


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## jim prideaux

I can only repeat the numerous posts I have contributed concerning the 5th-a careful listen to the final movement will reveal a composition with a remarkable emotive element to it-it is as if you are faced with an intimidating climb which does re appear but increasingly as the movement progresses there is a sense of peace and reconciliation-well, that is what I can hear!


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## Brahmsian Colors

It's been donkey's years since I listened to his First through Fourth Symphonies (with Kertesz). In response to celloissimo's comment about any of Dvorak's Symphonies beyond his Ninth rarely being exposed today, I must say the composer's Eighth, as far as I can see, seems to appear fairly often. I fondly recall its having been perfomed at a live concert I attended several years back with Yuri Temirkanov conducting the St. Petersburg Symphony (former Leningrad Philharmonic). In particular, I was astounded by the remarkable degree of power exhibited by the orchestra's assertive horns, as well as the wonderfully smooth, golden hue of its cellos. Exquisite, electrifying, deeply satisfying, and even more enjoyable than Neeme Jarvi's performance of the Eighth I had previously attended a few years earlier in London's Royal Albert Hall.

Anyhow, the Eighth is simply a gorgeous work, deserving of being heard by those who have never or rarely heard it before. If one doesn't especially care for it, that's fine too. Cei la vie. Reaffirming what some others have said, Kertesz/London Symphony and Kubelik/Berlin Philharmonic are superb. If you haven't already done so, try both....The Dvorak Seventh, somewhat different in tone, is also a very engaging piece. Szell/Cleveland Orchestra, Bernstein/NY Philharmonic and Monteux/London Symphony are all highly recommended...The composer's F Major Fifth is another charming work. Here, I prefer Rowicki/London Symphony, though Kertesz is also a good choice....The Sixth is not a particular favorite of mine at this time.


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## Rhinotop

I highly recommend the Symphonies 5 to 9. Dvorák was a gifted man for create spectacular and memorable masterpieces.


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## jegreenwood

Saw this on the shelves in London last week.


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## sbmonty

This has reminded me how much I love 8 and 9. I'm going to listen to 1-7 again. Rowicki. Thanks all.


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## Mal

Just finished listening to István Kertész's full cycle on Spotify and a very enjoyable experience it was. His later symphonies are better, as everyone says, but I was surprised how good the earlier symphonies were. So don't let the critics put you off listening to the full cycle! They put me off for too long.

I totally agree with Art Rock when he says, "Dvorak is one of the few symphonists (maybe the only one for me) where the next symphony is almost always just a bit better than the previous one." 

That's why it's so superb listening to Kertész's cycle at the rate of one a day, it starts out well and you can expect just a bit better tomorrow, and "good as Beethoven's best" on the last day. Note, it's also unusual to find someone who does so well with every piece in a cycle. You might find better individual performances of some of the later symphonies, but Kertész & the LSO are of a consistently high standard, and have a lyrical & dynamic approach that wears very well.


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## Heck148

Agree about the Kertesz/LSO Dvorak set...excellent throughout, with some real standouts - #6, #8, #4 are top of the heap for me....all of them are excellent, tho...
one of the few complete symphony sets I recommend.


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## Brahmsian Colors

For me, the Dvorak Ninth made earlier by Kertesz and the Vienna Philharmonic was musically, dynamically and nostalgically superior to his London Symphony Ninth.


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## Heck148

Haydn67 said:


> For me, the Dvorak Ninth made earlier by Kertesz and the Vienna Philharmonic was musically, dynamically and nostalgically superior to his London Symphony Ninth.


I don't know Kertesz' VPO #9...his LSO one is good, but not top of the list for me - that goes to Toscanini/NBC [one of AT's very greatest efforts], and Reiner/CSO. Szell/Cleveland is very good also.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Heck148 said:


> I don't know Kertesz' VPO #9...his LSO one is good, but not top of the list for me - that goes to Toscanini/NBC [one of AT's very greatest efforts], and Reiner/CSO. Szell/Cleveland is very good also.


Hi Heck...I still embrace the label, "poet of conductors", given to Bruno Walter years ago on of some of his Columbia album covers. What do you think of his Columbia Symphony Dvorak Ninth aside from his occasional slower pace in comparison with his New York Phiharmonic recordings? Also, if you're interested, and get a chance to listen to that Kertesz/Vienna recording, I'd like to hear your response or anyone else's should they care to chime in too.


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## Guest

Has anyone purchased the box set of DVDs of all 9 symphonies with Jiri Belohlavek and the Czech Philharmonic? This was recorded in 2014 in the Dvorak Hall in Prague and is a very nice set. There is a documentary and Belohlavek discusses each of the works. I'm a Dvorak fan and this was a great addition to my collection. It is available on Amazon (Antonin Dvorak: The symphonies Edition).









As of today, my favorite is the 7th, followed closely by the 9th, 8th, and the 6th.


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## Pugg

carol235 said:


> Has anyone purchased the box set of DVDs of all 9 symphonies with Jiri Belohlavek and the Czech Philharmonic? This was recorded in 2014 in the Dvorak Hall in Prague and is a very nice set. There is a documentary and Belohlavek discusses each of the works. I'm a Dvorak fan and this was a great addition to my collection. It is available on Amazon (Antonin Dvorak: The symphonies Edition).
> 
> View attachment 91219
> 
> 
> As of today, my favorite is the 7th, followed closely by the 9th, 8th, and the 6th.


Are this films or just hear DVD'S ?


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## Guest

They are filmed DVDs. The interviews with Belohlavek are captioned in English. I believe there is also a set of music-only CDs.


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## Bettina

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I'd like to mention that Dvorak wrote a number of excellent symphonic poems in addition to his nine symphonies. 

My favorite symphonic poem by Dvorak is A Hero's Song. Highly recommended if you enjoy Dvorak's symphonies.


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## starthrower

I just got Neumann's 2nd cycle and I love the sound of these recordings. The resolution and detail is striking. No.1 sounds great to my ears. The adagio movement is beautiful.


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## Merl

starthrower said:


> I just got Neumann's 2nd cycle and I love the sound of these recordings. The resolution and detail is striking. No.1 sounds great to my ears. The adagio movement is beautiful.


I think what I like most about Neumann is the unmannered approach he has to Dvorak. He lets the orchestra breathe throughout. Neumann's Dvorak (and Mahler for that matter) never used to get much credit, and was often cited as 'stiff', but when you listen properly its far from that. Both his Dvorak cycles are superb.


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## CnC Bartok

nightscape said:


> I haven't come across a convincing complete Dvorak cycle.


Not sure I can agree with this. As far as I am concerned there are, if anything, too many convincing cycles. No, of course no one conductor has the final word on every single one of the nine, but there are - for me anyway - quite a few sets without glaring weaknesses.

The best for me are Kertesz, then the first Neumann set, then the New Belohlavek. Kubelik does not make my top three as a set, but only because he is on record dismissing the earlier symphonies as not worthy, and to be honest, hearing his 1 & 2 in comparison to Neumann, there are plenty of moments where he sounds like he's trying to prove his point! Maybe unfair.... but his 5 to 9 are among the best ever recorded. I prefer Neumann's earlier cycle, as I think there are moments in the later one where Merl's "stiff" is not completely untrue. Sorry! Belohlavek's newish Decca set is not a first choice for me, but he manages to bring out details others don't, he has wonderful balance, like Kubelik, but there is an element of drama missing overall. But that's his view, his earlier Supraphon recordings aren't that different.
Kertesz wins, as there's not a disappointing moment anywhere. His 7 is an absolute gem, and he's debatably the most convincing of anyone in the overlooked 3 & 4. The other six aren't too bad either!
I find it tough to be too critical of Rowicki, or of Pesek, or Gunzenhauser, my other complete sets, and I like the handful of Jarvi recordings i have too. The only really bland set I own is Andrew Davis'.
Of course, you can easily put together a cycle from individual recordings, one that would have to include the great triumvirate of Talich, Ancerl and Sejna, and half a dozen New Worlds that are absolutely brilliant (Kondrashin, Macal spring immeditaely to mind)


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## Bill Cooke

Dorati's and the LSO's account of the 7th for Mercury Living Presence is searing and vivid. Highly recommended!


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## Joachim Raff

If you want a version of DVORAK Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 10, i can recommend this version. This conductor really treats the work with respect and what passion! Second movement is something to die for. The coupling might not be ideal but interesting


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## Merl

Joachim Raff said:


> If you want a version of DVORAK Symphony No. 3 in E-flat major, Op. 10, i can recommend this version. This conductor really treats the work with respect and what passion! Second movement is something to die for. The coupling might not be ideal but interesting
> 
> View attachment 132941


Those couplings are bizarre.


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## BlackAdderLXX

I'm appreciating this thread. I've been listening to Dvorak the past few days and find his work fascinating. I'm going through Suitner's cycle right now and I'm looking forward to the later works. The 1-3 have been ok, but nothing that grabs me. The 4th is starting to be more interesting.


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## Heck148

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I'm appreciating this thread. I've been listening to Dvorak the past few days and find his work fascinating. I'm going through Suitner's cycle right now and I'm looking forward to the later works. The 1-3 have been ok, but nothing that grabs me. The 4th is starting to be more interesting.


#4 is a neat piece. It ought to be a concert staple.


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## Strange Magic

I turn to Dvorak principally for his concertos, symphonic poems and other shorter orchestral pieces, and his chamber works. His symphonies have not held long appeal for me with the exception of the 7th, his most Brahmsian work in that form.


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## Enthusiast

For me the symphonies from 3 onward are all wonderful to listen to. In general I find the Kertesz recordings to be as good as any. Neumann and Rowicki are also mostly very good. From 6 onward there is a lot more choice but even then Kertesz holds his own.


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## Heck148

Enthusiast said:


> .... From 6 onward there is a lot more choice but even then Kertesz holds his own.


Most definitely, great #6, and the Kertesz/LSO #8 is my favorite as well...#7 is excellent, tho I give the nod to Monteux/LSO for top honors....fierce competition for #9...Kertesz/LSO is good, but first place goes to Toscanini and Reiner...Szell very fine, also...


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## Merl

Heck148 said:


> Most definitely, great #6, and the Kertesz/LSO #8 is my favorite as well...#7 is excellent, tho I give the nod to Monteux/LSO for top honors....fierce competition for #9...Kertesz/LSO is good, but first place goes to Toscanini and Reiner...Szell very fine, also...


Which one do you like playing the most, Heck?


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## Heck148

Merl said:


> Which one do you like playing the most, Heck?


#6, I think..tho they are all enjoyable....#9 is always welcome, and I love the ob/bssn duet in the trio of #8/III...great tune!!


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