# Furtwangler's Ring: Final Verdict



## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

I think it's time for me to get a Furtwangler Ring (probably from Pristine).

Which one do you prefer, the *'50* or the *'53*?

Here are the criteria: I don't care much about sound quality or cut. They are both from Furtwangler anyways so I stress more on the singers. I would prefer dramatic involvement and intelligent text-engagement to sheer vocal beauty and security.

Thanks for chiming in!


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Absolutely get the 50 Scala Ring first from Pristine XR (with ambient stereo) nothing even comes close in sound quality, better orchestra plus the chance to hear Flagstad's final complete Ring recording is reason enough.......

Also although Svanholm and Max Lorenz are past their prime I enjoyed their tag-team Siegfried performances, always in character wonderful stylistic singing that is a lost art today, and Furtwangler's fluid organic style was made for wagner's soundscapes.....


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## Faustian (Feb 8, 2015)

As I've stated elsewhere, I truly enjoy both of these outstanding performances about the same amount, for different reasons. On La Scala, Furtwangler has the better orchestra, and the interpretation is intense, urgent, and gripping. On the RAI Ring, the singing is generally more consistent, and the reading is steady and full of depth. In both cases Furtwangler demonstrates his unsurpassed hold on the interconnectiveness of the entire work, and the music and drama unfold organically and with a feeling of utter inevitability under his baton.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


>


So which part of the cycle is 'Götterdämerung' ? The fifth opera?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

The Scala is far better. Better band, which leads to a better, more dramatic and incisive performance from the pit--Furtwangler sounds like he's carefully leading the pickup band he got for the RAI broadcast. Much better performance from Flagstad over Modl, who's a bit of a trial as Brunnhilde, where Flagstad is the only one who challenges Nilsson in the role for me. 

Svanholm and Lorenz audibly tire with the full opera performances compared to Suthaus on the RAI, which was performed one act at a time, but I think you're missing out if you don't get a good Lorenz performance in Gotterdammerung; his Act 3 performance is exceptionally intense and bananas.

Some of the smaller parts are better cast on the RAI--I like Windgassen's Siegmund more than Treptow's, Greindl's Hagen over Weber's, and for the lunatic woodbird fans, the Streich performance is pretty special I guess. The sound is better even after the black magic remastering job that Pristine does on the Scala, but I consider the Scala recording the greatest recording of the Cycle available, and the RAI only middling at best.


ETA - it's worth mentioning I suppose that the Scala has small cuts (a few minutes of music each) in Act 2 of Walkure and Act 3 of Siegfried. I personally don't much mind these cuts but if you're a stickler for note complete, that may be a factor.

As Deryck Cooke once said, the Scala Ring surges, seethes, and melts in a way totally unique to Furtwangler. You'd really be missing out by going with the RAI.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Guys, I know I may be very heretic here , but after a quick sampling on youtube where all 4 parts of the *'50* were kindly uploaded (not the Pristine version though), I found Flagstad sound matronly (as in the studio Tristan) and tired at some parts. Don't get me wrong, I do highly value pre-1950 Wagnerian singers (Melchior, Leider, Lubin, Lehmann are my most favorite) and do enjoy Flagstad at her vocal and artistic peak around the late 30s (where a series of her Isolde were fabulous). However, when she got older, I find her singing matronly or even lethargic. If I am forced to choose between ugly-voice but passionate Modl (as is the case of her live Isolde under Karajan) over a secured but cool Flagstad in her 50s, I'm afraid I would go with the former.

Svanholm and Lorenz are obviously past their prime.

But I do agree that reading of Furtwangler in the 50s was more inspiring.

It's not an easy choice for me . Will wait for more opinions.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

interestedin said:


> So which part of the cycle is 'Götterdämerung' ? The fifth opera?


Yeah, you'd think that someone in Pristine might have proofread their covers!


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> Yeah, you'd think that someone in Pristine might have proofread their covers!


That someone could have added the missing year too, while at it  But they seem very busy... I wrote them because of that cover years ago...


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

I think it's clear that cover design is pretty pretty low in the Pristine Classical list of priorities.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> I think it's clear that cover design is pretty pretty low in the Pristine Classical list of priorities.


Just like books, don't judge by it's cover.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

interestedin said:


> That someone could have added the missing year too, while at it  But they seem very busy... I wrote them because of that cover years ago...


They also have this little "mistake" in their Callas 55 Norma (many considerer her very best) they use this famous photo from Callas Medea instead of Norma......


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

> If I am forced to choose between ugly-voice but passionate Modl (as is the case of her live Isolde under Karajan) over a secured but cool Flagstad in her 50s, I'm afraid I would go with the former.


I have all the Modl Rings but also recommend any wagner "collector" who has multiple ring sets will definitely want the best possible sound version of 50 Scala Ring, this is the only Flagstad complete Ring recording, for Martha Modl we have 6-7 complete 1950s Bayreuth Rings to choose from, the one hesitation of poor sound has be removed by Pristine XR............

I think Kirsten still can deliver the vocal goods, check the immolation scence 12:50 -> 18:05 joined with such wonderful orchestration, this is not to missed.........






If you don't want to pay for Pristine XR, the best current CD version is latest Archipel even better than the Music & Arts boxset in sound quality, the problem is not sold as a boxset just individually and shipping becomes an issue.......if they would just sell complete Archipel boxset under $40 we would really have something


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> I think Kirsten still can deliver the vocal goods, check the immolation scence 12:50 -> 18:05 joined with such wonderful orchestration, this is not to missed.........


Eternal Goddess of the North. Nothing "matronly" about singing like this! We should have such matrons with us now.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> I have all the Modl Rings but also recommend any wagner "collector" who has multiple ring sets will definitely want the best possible sound version of 50 Scala Ring, *this is the only Flagstad complete Ring recording, for Martha Modl we have 6-7 complete 1950s Bayreuth Rings to choose from*, the one hesitation of poor sound has be removed by Pristine XR............
> 
> I think Kirsten still can deliver the vocal goods, check the immolation scence 12:50 -> 18:05 joined with such wonderful orchestration, this is not to missed.........
> 
> ...


Well, this is actually a very touching point to get the 50 set


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## WildThing (Feb 21, 2017)

I voted for the 53 RIA, but largely because I prefer the better sound quality and for the completeness of the performance. The 50 La Scala cuts the Siegfried/Wanderer confrontation for goodness sake!! Also, I don't think the 53 set is lacking in drama, AT ALL.

I realize I'm not much help for assisting with your decision though, sorry!!!


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