# Tenors who actually sound like men



## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

in both the classical and contemporary worlds of music, there is a pervasive trend toward favors light, wispy sounding tenors that sound like they've only just hit puberty. therefore, I thought it would be a good idea to have a place to share some powerful, dark tenor voices which carry some manner of weight and authority.

Giuseppe Giacomini





Anatolii Solovyanenko





John Alexander





Franco Corelli


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

What about Ruby Helder?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Jonas Kaufmann







Figleaf said:


> What about Ruby Helder?


um...WOW XD


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Caruso
Corelli
DelMonaco
Vickers
Kaufmann
Giordani
Tucker
McCracken
Antonenko


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Gimme some Lauritz Melchior!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauritz_Melchior

He sung hard and swung out the ballpark with a very male voice.


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## Buddha (Dec 8, 2014)

Love the thread title snark, and no, can't think of any, LOL! The clip of Jonas Kaufmann, was fun, though, as was a Melchior I found:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Fritz Wunderlich.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Like I said elsewhere: I'm going to keep posting this video until someone agrees with me about what a great performance it is! :devil:

And as 'manly' as you can probably find from a true, natural tenor, as opposed to a baritenor like Melchior, Kaufmann et al.


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## Phu Nguyen (Jan 3, 2015)

Ironically, I'd like tenors with soft voice, using half singing style.


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## Tenor fan (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm not a fan of the modern fashion for using tenors of a lighter fach to sing heavier works like the heavier Verdi, most of Puccini's works and even Wagner. WNO and ENO seem to be following this path.

I like a tenor to sound like the role, if you know what I mean, and not be engulfed by the orchestra. It doesn't matter that much to me how perfect diction is, if you can't hear him who would know?

Recordings have distorted voices, in terms of "size" so much that expectations are inevitably not met when recording stars take on the heavier roles.

I'm a fan of unknown or new singers who slip beneath the radar but deliver a much more exciting performance than the "stars". I trawl youtube also looking for unknowns who might appeal to me and found this one last night which to me sounds masculine and exciting.


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## Claudia Oddo soprano (Feb 13, 2015)

I like your post tenor fan, as a soprano I know what you are talking about.


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## satoru (May 29, 2014)

How about Ramon Vinay? A baritone climbed up to the tenor range. Dark and powerful voice. Regarded as the best Otello by many.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Can we add

Martinelli
Domingo
Bjorlong

Bonisolli had a great voice. Got himself into trouble with Karajan for throwing a sword at the conductor during Trovatore rehearsal so obviously a man of spirit. Vinery just ran away from Karajan's 'baleful gaze' (W Wagner)


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> What about Ruby Helder?


That feels like watching a countertenor sing... wrong, somehow. It's very good though.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Is there something wrong with my ears if almost all classical tenors I've heard have sounded quite manly  For non-classical I guess I can kinda understand the complaint.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dim7 said:


> Is there something wrong with my ears if almost all classical tenors I've heard have sounded quite manly  For non-classical I guess I can kinda understand the complaint.


It would be clearer if the OP had posted a link of those tenors 'who did not sound like men,' to get some measure of what is I think a highly personal and subjective idea of 'what is masculine.'

A more than peculiar question indeed, Dim7, the source a member whose screen ID includes the word 'boy', and who has chosen for an avatar a cartoon of a young male (late adolescent -- early adult) with wispy blonde hair.

Sounds a titch over-reactionary as per 'what is masculine,' but hey, every one is a world.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: Nicolai Gedda.

Gedda move on and buy some of his CDs. A man's tenor!!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> OP: Nicolai Gedda.
> 
> Gedda move on and buy some of his CDs. A man's tenor!!


... Gedda was also a singer's singer.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Tenors sound too womanly and basses too manly. Where are all the basso profundos that actually sound like women??


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dim7 said:


> Tenors sound too womanly and basses too manly. Where are all the basso profundos that actually sound like women??


Sopranos sound like gender-indeterminate children or little girls.

Altos sound like teen-aged women.

Contraltos, now _there_ are the real red-hot mamas!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

DavidA said:


> Can we add
> 
> Martinelli
> Domingo
> ...


Vinery = Vinay. This auto-text!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> Tenors sound too womanly and basses too manly. *Where are all the basso profundos that actually sound like women??*


I don't know- Ivan Rebroff, when he does the falsetto? I don't know if he was really a basso profundo, though he might have been. Microphones have a lot to answer for.

Changing the subject slightly-I like a bass voice with a bit of brightness to it, as opposed to the woofy, growly type. I'm amazed anybody wants to listen to the latter kind.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Which brings up the interesting question.... which singers have the darkest/brightest timbre for their vocal range? Any sopranos with bass-like timbres or basses with very light and bright voices?  It does seem that the "brightness" of a voice goes along with the "highness" and the same for "darkness" and "lowness". From my experience (not much anything really when it comes to classical/opera singers) a "dark tenor" seems to be more or less interchangeable with a "low tenor".


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> Which brings up the interesting question.... which singers have the darkest/brightest timbre for their vocal range? Any sopranos with bass-like timbres or basses with very light and bright voices?  It does seem that the "brightness" of a voice goes along with the "highness" and the same for "darkness" and "lowness". From my experience (not much anything really when it comes to classical/opera singers) a "dark tenor" seems to be more or less interchangeable with a "low tenor".


Darkness in any voice can be innate, or it can be achieved 'artificially' by covering, which is hard to define (and as a non-singer, I'm not claiming to understand it perfectly). It produces a rounder and certainly darker but somewhat monochrome and unexpressive sound. Current singers generally cover a great deal, which is why their voices not only lack brightness, but their vowels sound undifferentiated. Of course, covering need not be so extreme throughout the vocal range that it ruins the singer's diction. It can be used with discretion. Here is a high tenor who used to cover his lower notes to give a darkened 'voix sombree' sound (perhaps a little too much for my taste) but whose top notes are uncovered and so free and bright that they almost seem to belong to a different voice:






And here is an extreme example of a tenor who never covered at all, and who also (perhaps not entirely coincidentally) had probably the best diction of any singer ever recorded, and was by far the most moving dramatically.






Of course, part of Tamagno's dramatic power lay in the fact that he phrased with a freedom which was barely tolerated by the composers and conductors of his own day, and certainly wouldn't be in ours.

Basses can have a bright and/or light quality. Vanni-Marcoux was mentioned elsewhere on this board recently and he is a good example of a singer with a bass range who does not have a 'deep'sound, although his dry timbre can be an acquired taste, as marvellous as he is. We can listen to the two greatest basses of the late nineteenth century to illustrate what I mean. Here is Pol Plancon, a genuine basso profundo (as well as an unsurpassed stylist) who has a lighter sound than we might expect from a basso profundo today:






And here is his great rival, the basse chantante Edouard de Reszke, vocally a little worse for wear perhaps, but you can hear the bright, ringing quality of his top:






And of course there are baritones who can combine a bass baritone-like darkness in the bottom and middle with an almost tenor-like top:






Another aspect germane to this thread but not so far mentioned is that of the larygeal technique utilised by some of BalalaikaBoy's favourite tenors, which I believe include Franco Corelli, whatsisface Giacomini and the most extreme example, Jonas Kaufmann. I'm not an expert on this, partly because I'm not a musician, but also because they are singers I prefer not to listen to at all. If that particular sound is equated with masculinity, and masculinity is prized above any other quality, it's not surprising that tenors who use a different method of placement are considered to sound like little girls. (Sorry Balalaike, if I've caricatured your views beyond all recognition!)

Sopranos who sound like basses... you've got me there. Are there singers with a very wide range who might bring a bit of mezzo darkness to their upper range(?) You would have to ask somebody who is knowledgeable about sopranos. I think the modern obsession with fach has increased specialisation and thus probably reduced the number of sopranos who sound like anything other than sopranos.The examples which occur to me of dark-toned sopranos and/or those with a wide range, probably wouldn't be considered sopranos if they were active today. To be continued, as I've used up my quota of links...


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> Which brings up the interesting question.... which singers have the darkest/brightest timbre for their vocal range?[* Any sopranos with bass-like timbres* or basses with very light and bright voices?  It does seem that the "brightness" of a voice goes along with the "highness" and the same for "darkness" and "lowness". From my experience (not much anything really when it comes to classical/opera singers) a "dark tenor" seems to be more or less interchangeable with a "low tenor".


 I guess some dramatic sopranos can have an agreeably dark sound, but I don't really know if that's what you meant:


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Figleaf said:


> Here is Pol Plancon, a genuine basso profundo (as well as an unsurpassed stylist) who has a lighter sound than we might expect from a basso profundo today:


Wow, that's very light for a bass.



Figleaf said:


> I guess some dramatic sopranos can have an agreeably dark sound, but I don't really know if that's what you meant:


It was just a hyperbolic example, I was just wondering how dark timbre a soprano could have while having clearly a soprano range.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I guess some dramatic sopranos can have an agreeably dark sound, but I don't really know if that's what you meant:


This Bahr-Mildenburg clip is amazing. You can deduce, through the muted, ancient sound, a voice that had both darkness and brilliance, and a focus, clarity and freedom that no present-day dramatic soprano can equal. This was back when all vocal _fachs_ were expected to be able to actually sing. Apparently this was her only (surviving?) recording. Too bad.

Here's Wiki for anyone interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_von_Mildenburg


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

PetrB said:


> It would be clearer if the OP had posted a link of those tenors 'who did not sound like men,' to get some measure of what is I think a highly personal and subjective idea of 'what is masculine.'
> 
> A more than peculiar question indeed, Dim7, the source a member whose screen ID includes the word 'boy', and who has chosen for an avatar a cartoon of a young male (late adolescent -- early adult) with wispy blonde hair.
> 
> Sounds a titch over-reactionary as per 'what is masculine,' but hey, every one is a world.


I think Balalaika Boy _is_ an actual boy, i.e. early 20s. If he was 70, perhaps the name and avatar would be weird. Anyway, he has started an interesting thread, and I would also welcome clarification about which tenors he thinks sounds like women (I'm guessing some humorous hyperbole is intended in that phrase) so we can be sure we're not talking at cross purposes.

I don't know about sounding like a woman, but I would like to offer this as the most effete tenor record of all time:






Although kudos to anyone who can sing those lyrics with a straight face! There were some very high lyric tenors around in those days. I have great affection for the helium-voiced Walter Midgley, who sounds almost normal in O Paradis, but whose song recordings have to be heard to be believed. You don't want to be wearing headphones with the volume turned up when he hits the high notes. Ouch!










I love Leon David's recording of 'Ecco Ridente', but I guess for all his refinement, it's not the most macho sound:






While we're talking about the French, David Devries is another excellent singer with plenty of grace, but a high, thin voice like a vibrato-laden Midgley, which won't endear him to everyone:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I don't know- Ivan Rebroff, when he does the falsetto? I don't know if he was really a basso profundo, though he might have been. Microphones have a lot to answer for.
> 
> Changing the subject slightly-I like a bass voice with a bit of brightness to it, as opposed to the woofy, growly type. I'm amazed anybody wants to listen to the latter kind.


lmao! that's exactly who I was thinking of :lol:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

PetrB said:


> It would be clearer if the OP had posted a link of those tenors 'who did not sound like men,' to get some measure of what is I think a highly personal and subjective idea of 'what is masculine.'
> A more than peculiar question indeed, Dim7, the source a member whose screen ID includes the word 'boy', and who has chosen for an avatar a cartoon of a young male (late adolescent -- early adult) with wispy blonde hair.
> Sounds a titch over-reactionary as per 'what is masculine,' but hey, every one is a world.


by "sounding like a man", I mean
- singing with power and authority
- an heir of confidence and determination
- darker, mature timbre

the reason I felt compelled to post this is because I feel like the majority of current tenors sound whiny, supplicated, unsupported, like love sick teenagers. it really had little to do with gender at all (I would be saying the same thing had there been a trend of sopranos sounded excessively girly, breathy and/or fragile)


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> by "sounding like a man", I mean
> - singing with power and authority
> - an heir of confidence and determination
> - darker, mature timbre
> ...


I'm neutral about the virtue of the 'darker, mature timbre'- some singers have or had it, others don't or didn't, no biggie. But I totally agree with the rest of what you said about authority, confidence etc. I know the clip I posted of Anna Bahr von Mildenburg is off topic, strictly speaking, but that record is a great example of a grandeur of style which has been lost.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Compared to popular music however 95% of classical singers have quite thick and heavy voice IMHO.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> *Compared to popular music however 95%* of classical singers have quite thick and heavy voice IMHO.


don't even get me started on this. the male ideal in pop music is to sound like a 14-17 year old boy who is capable of doing nothing but whine about how beautiful and perfect the girl he has a crush on is. at least with female pop singers, an occasional one comes along who actually has some degree of vocal power and soul (ie, Christina Aguilera is awesome  )

so yeah, comparing operatic males to pop singing males is like saying "well, he's not nearly as bad as Ted Bundy, so he's not beating his wife _that_ badly"


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Well, I don't even understand why - in opera - tenors always get the lead "heroic" parts.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Well, I don't even understand why - in opera - tenors always get the lead "heroic" parts.


neither do I. I've never found most tenors particularly "heroic" sounding. the dramatic baritone is, to my ears, a more heroic voice.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Well, I don't even understand why - in opera - tenors always get the lead "heroic" parts.


It is because the hero is often a young man and tenors sound young.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> Well, I don't even understand why - in opera - tenors always get the lead "heroic" parts.


Spend some time with Russian opera. Baritones and basses galore!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Lead melodies in general tend to be rather high in pitch.

I'd love to trade my manly low baritone for a "wispy effete" (at least by BalalaikaBoy's manly standards) tenor voice, assuming I had some talent for singing.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> neither do I. I've never found most tenors particularly "heroic" sounding. the dramatic baritone is, to my ears, a more heroic voice.


Heroic tenor voices have always been quite rare I think, which is part of what makes them special. And the way in which the metallic ring of the top notes sung in full voice cut through an orchestra and fill the theatre with brilliant sound must have been even more striking in the days before amplification than it is now. That's not to say that there haven't been baritones with brilliant, ringing tops, but for the combination of power, pitch and a piercing quality that carries supremely well, it's easy to see why the heroic tenor voice has been chosen by composers for warriors and legendary heroes and beyond.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm mostly talking about non-classical since I'm not much into classical/operatic singing, but I've always had a strong preference for high-pitched male voice, whether "manly" or outright androgynous (as long as it doesn't sound exactly like woman's voice). "Manly tenors" are admittedly the most impressive which is not to say I necessarily prefer them over less "manly" tenors.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> I'm mostly talking about non-classical since I'm not much into classical/operatic singing, but I've always had a strong preference for high-pitched male voice, whether "manly" or outright androgynous (as long as it doesn't sound exactly like woman's voice). "Manly tenors" are admittedly the most impressive which is not to say I necessarily prefer them over less "manly" tenors.


"Manly tenors" is still a question-begging term IMO. Does it refer only to baritonal tenors, or can it include high heroic tenors who sing with power and authority?

Dim7: I will try to mentally read out your posts in a 'wispy, effete' voice from now on.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Wunderlich was a lyric tenor but never sounded less than a man. When I worked in a classical music shop many years ago, one of the girls who worked there would literally go weak at the knees every time we played one of his records.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Heroic tenor voices have always been quite rare I think, which is part of what makes them special. And the way in which the metallic ring of the top notes sung in full voice cut through an orchestra and fill the theatre with brilliant sound must have been even more striking in the days before amplification than it is now. That's not to say that there haven't been baritones with brilliant, ringing tops, but for the combination of power, pitch and a piercing quality that carries supremely well, it's easy to see why the heroic tenor voice has been chosen by composers for warriors and legendary heroes and beyond.


I should have specified "on average", but yes, the rare truly heroic tenor voice is quite the spectacle, in much the same way that a true dramatic coloratura soprano is.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Wunderlich was a lyric tenor but never sounded less than a man. When I worked in a classical music shop many years ago, one of the girls who worked there would literally go weak at the knees every time we played one of his records.


I don't necessarily think that tenors with lyric voices can't be manly. Granted, I don't exactly find their _timbre_ very manly, but what's more important is a solid, authoritative singing style that conveys confidence and backbone. my criticism has more to do with the manner in which tenors commonly sing as opposed their voices themselves. Nicolae Gedda, for example, was a lyric tenor whom I would consider extremely manly.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This discussion of manliness is highly amusing.

That's all I wanted to say.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Woodduck said:


> This discussion of manliness is highly amusing.
> 
> That's all I wanted to say.


I imagined you saying that in a countertenor voice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> I imagined you saying that in a countertenor voice.


Nope. It's only my writing that's high-toned.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Woodduck said:


> Nope. It's only my writing that's high-toned.


A basso profundo in contrast to my basso buffo.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Dim7 said:


> A basso profundo in contrast to my basso buffo.


And both so very manly.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I was watching a programme which traced the development of the tenor voice. Apparently in the beginning tenors would get their high notes by singing falsetto. It is only later they developed their 'head' notes. To me all tenors sound like men as they are men. I think we might be trying to distinguish between a more heroic sounding tenor (e.g. Domingo in his prime) and the tenor who'd sing more classical roles like the evangelist in Bach where he would need a more flexible voice.


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## Cesare Impalatore (Apr 16, 2015)

Great thread! Most of the important _manly_ tenors were mentioned by now but I'd like to add the squillant voice of steel Galliano Masini:






... and the king of _do di petto_, Achille Braschi (God, that name alone screams killer manliness):






I wouldn't be a good Mario del Monaco cultist, though, if I didn't post a video of his, underlining his godlike status over all dramatic tenors:


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Jonas Kaufmann sounds nice and manly!


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