# John Cage ultimate 4'33 experience CD.... The true test of this work.



## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

I can get my hands on 1,000 blank CD's and can sort out the photography and printing.
I intend to market these as "The ultimate John Cage experience'... featuring many different interpretations of this classic work including 
(1) the first recording on period instruments.
(2) an extended New York dance remix that lasts for 28 minutes
(3) a new recording featuring a newly discovered original score once thought lost.
Anyone want to place advance orders for this disc or has any idea of what else can be added to increase sales... just add your thoughts below 
REMEMBER THESE ARE STRICTLY LIMITED EDITION and for real John Cage fans only
.... Order now, you know it makes sense

(Note: this is pure satire and not actually a money making scheme)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

WhateverDude said:


> (Note: this is pure satire and not actually a money making scheme)


Shucks. Guess I'll just have to go on not singing the piece in the shower.


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> Shucks. Guess I'll just have to go on not singing the piece in the shower.


Excellent idea.... I can include a karaoke version with the vocal left out.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

WhateverDude said:


> I can get my hands on 1,000 blank CD's and can sort out the photography and printing.
> I intend to market these as "The ultimate John Cage experience'... featuring many different interpretations of this classic work including
> (1) the first recording on period instruments.
> (2) an extended New York dance remix that lasts for 28 minutes
> ...


Period instruments is one thing (there are plenty of instruments made in the 1950s) but what about performance practice for true Historically Informed Performance (HIP)? The score for _4'33"_ leaves many interpretations, infinite in fact, so how do you reconcile HIP with the 1950's hip? 1950's hip is all about being outrageous, so to do a HIP of hip, well I just don't know ....


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

Of course the period instrument recording of 4'33" lasts around 4 minutes, the Baroque techniques and the gut strings mean a greater attack must come to the fore. This CD will include a performance conducted by Roger Norrington that actually comes in around the 4 minute mark. Norrington is crazy in this piece.... you really have to hear it....


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

I'll just stick with my version for prepared piano.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

WhateverDude said:


> Of course the period instrument recording of 4'33" lasts around 4 minutes, the Baroque techniques and the gut strings mean a greater attack must come to the fore. This CD will include a performance conducted by Roger Norrington that actually comes in around the 4 minute mark. Norrington is crazy in this piece.... you really have to hear it....


I'm not aware of metronome marks on _4'33"_. Are there any?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The one distinction 4'33" has beyond all other nonmusical noncompositions is that it generates a seemingly unlimited stream of jokes. Whether or not Cage ever thought of himself as a humorist, his accomplishment in that field is undeniable.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Shucks. Guess I'll just have to go on not singing the piece in the shower.


But wouldn't not singing it in the shower constitute singing it in the shower given the nature of the piece? Deep questions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> But wouldn't not singing it in the shower constitute singing it in the shower given the nature of the piece? Deep questions.


"Practice not-doing,
and everything will fall into place."

(Lao Tzu)


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> "Practice not-doing,
> and everything will fall into place."
> 
> (Lao Tzu)


Therefore, the sage's way of governing is: emptying the mind, filling the belly,
weakening the will, toughening the bones.
In this way he will cause the people to remain without knowledge
and without desire…

Dao De Jing, chapter 3


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

" Buy this CD, because nothing is as good as this CD".....
That's the marketing slogan.... I like it.... What do you think...?


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

WhateverDude said:


> " Buy this CD, because nothing is as good as this CD".....
> That's the marketing slogan.... I like it.... What do you think...?


Perhaps you could use the famous Bill Nye quip "Cage's music is better than it doesn't sound" as your slogan?


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

"John Cage 4'33".... Annoy your neighbors... PLAY IT LOUD"


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Does your set have the Celibidache recording that lasts 5'10''? It made me hear this work in a whole new way!


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

_4'33"_ is a total insult to people who are physically deaf. Deaf people would love to hear music but the work mocks them by proposing silence is music.


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

It's a total insult to those who can hear as well. But sometimes people like to pay for pain to be inflicted upon them. Maybe this piece is just masochism for the brain and ears. I can envisage Tory MPs queuing up to hear this wearing rubber masks and high heels.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

ArtMusic said:


> _4'33"_ is a total insult to people who are physically deaf. Deaf people would love to hear music but the work mocks them by proposing silence is music.


Have you asked actual deaf people what they feel about this piece?

Plus, 4'33" is supposed to be background noises, coughing and the like, not pure music.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

ORigel said:


> Have you asked actual deaf people what they feel about this piece?
> 
> Plus, 4'33" is supposed to be background noises, coughing and the like, not pure science.


I have. My grandfather is mostly deaf. He thinks it is insulting and ridiculous that a composer would "compose" something stupid like that. Feel free to ask a deaf person yourself if they think silence/background noise is conceptual music when they would be most longing to listen to mellifluous notes, not conceptual garbage. We don't know how lucky we are to have functioning ears.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

ArtMusic said:


> I have. My grandfather is mostly deaf. He thinks it is insulting and ridiculous that a composer would "compose" something stupid like that. Feel free to ask a deaf person yourself if they think silence/background noise is conceptual music when they would be most longing to listen to mellifluous notes, not conceptual garbage. We don't know how lucky we are to have functioning ears.


Thanks for responding. I agree that 4'33" is an insult to music.


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

How can musicians sit there with musical instruments and refuse to play them for the whole peace. It is not like a symphony where you have little to do for 3 movements but are active in one. The ultimate insult of 4'33" is not to the musicians but to the instruments that demand to be played. It is why they were created. STOP INSULTING MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I think it's pretty unreasonable to say a piece of music or art is an insult when it doesn't say anything explicitly. It's like saying someone wearing a piece of clothing the wrong way is an insult to the someone seeing it, or to the piece of clothing. 

That also reminds me of this other idea that sort of came up, that if someone like Kanye West did that at a concert, bowed, and left, then that would be an insult to the audience who didn't come to a Kanye West concert to be enlightened by Zen, which would be presumptuous of West to assume they never were or need to be. Cage was already Cage before 4'33". Also it was part of a piano recital, and not the only attraction.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> I think it's pretty unreasonable to say a piece of music or art is an insult when it doesn't say anything explicitly..


Is this is an insult to Beethoven?


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

ORigel said:


> Does your set have the Celibidache recording that lasts 5'10''? It made me hear this work in a whole new way!


Yes, of course.... But at 5'10" it does tend to sag in the middle a bit... But let's be fair, we are all tending to sag in the middle a bit.

The CD also includes an early Roy Goodman performance, but I think the reduced size of the orchestra he uses is a problem in this work


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Mandryka said:


> Is this is an insult to Beethoven?


No, even if Beethoven did feel insulted.


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

You can't insult someone who is dead. You can't insult Beethoven.... But you can insult an audience.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

WhateverDude said:


> You can't insult someone who is dead. You can't insult Beethoven.... But you can insult an audience.


I agree and in the case of _4'33"_ especially someone who is physically deaf.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I can't help but think that too much has been made of 4'33". And from all of the space on TC that has been taken up with these "discussions" I have never seen anyone change their mind about the significance, meaning of the work, or the status of John Cage as a composer.

Is this topic really that interesting to keep going on about?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

So, Cage's 4'33" is insulting to:
those who are physically deaf.
those who are not physically deaf.
music
Audiences

That Cage was a bad man. Someone should dig him out of his grave and dismember the deviant. :lol:


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> So, Cage's 4'33" is insulting to:
> those who are physically deaf.
> those who are not physically deaf.
> music
> ...


We've done that already... we recorded it and it's on the CD..... But as none of us were really good with spades it took 4 hours 33 minutes.... we've condensed it to just the highlights


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ten results shown in the link of _4'33"_ recordings with samples; yes, samples! You can hear the emptiness of the recording made by the halfwits https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/works/130171--cage-4-33/browse


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

Pianist Khatia Buniatishvili just released a recital cd containing among other works John Cage's 4 33.









This Amazon.fr review caught my attention =>

(...)(reviewer's name removed for privacy's sake)
1,0 sur 5 étoiles Défaut sur CD
Commenté en France le 15 janvier 2021
Achat vérifié
J'ai acheté le CD de Khatia Buniatishvili LABYRINTH le morceau 17 4'33" est vide le silence complet.
S'agit-il d'un défaut d'impression ?
Merci de bien vouloir me remplacer le CD je ferais un retour .
Cordialement

Va t-on me remplacer le produit défectueux ???? (...)

_(in english : there's something wrong with my cd; please replace my defective disc - track 17 contains no music ; only silence)_

Also an Amazon.com reviewer was not too happy =>

(...) (reviewer's name removed for privacy's sake)
2.0 out of 5 stars Track 17 John Cage, is completely silence. How Sony missed that???
Reviewed in the United States on January 14, 2021
Verified Purchase
Track 17 John Cage, is completely silence. How Sony missed that??? (...)


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

What these reviewers are stating was perhaps best said by US President Trump when he stated.
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all of the time, BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME"


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## bluto32 (Apr 25, 2015)

Andrew Kenneth said:


> Pianist Khatia Buniatishvili just released a recital cd containing among other works John Cage's 4 33.
> 
> This Amazon.fr review caught my attention =>
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting those Amazon reviews - made my day!!

Regarding Buniatishvili, her timing is truly impeccable (assuming the track details are accurate) and the Presto Classical clip does appear to be of extremely high quality, even if the performance itself is somewhat dull and uninspired.

(In fairness, the clip is only of the first minute; things may improve considerably after that. But I suspect not.)


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

" Harry had to work in clay and stone, like the waves coming to the shore, it was in his blood and in his bones. He was ignored by all the trendy boys in London.....
...Then you get an artist... who says he doesn't want to paint at all.... takes an empty canvas, sticks in on the wall. The birds of a feather, all the phoneys and all the fakes and the dealers get together and they decide who gets the breaks.
No lies he wouldn't compromise , no junk or string. And all the lies we subsidise... they just don't mean a thing...."

In the gallery. Dire Straits (first album)... when they were good and had something to say..... it didn't last for long


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Andrew Kenneth said:


> Pianist Khatia Buniatishvili just released a recital cd containing among other works John Cage's 4 33.
> 
> View attachment 151132


Sample the track here (scroll to the bottom): https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8828978--labyrinth

I am totally struck by the sheer crescendo at the end, with so much passionate performance and the huge leaps in octaves. This must be the best _4'33"_ ever. (I forgot to take my medication today, by the way....)


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## WhateverDude (Jun 21, 2019)

Surely a pianist that can sit there and do nothing, should be paid nothing.


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