# Haydn vs Mozart



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Luckily we have both, BUT if you had to chose between them who's the winner. and which is your desert isle choice.

i always go back and forth on this thought. what do tc folks think.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Haydn. A wider range of emotion, rhythmically more exciting, witty without being showy and more masculine.


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

Mozart, but I put this thread up a week ago


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Mozart. But you can put him up against anyone - I will always vote for Mozart. Haydn is also one of my favorite (top five) composers though.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Another dumb 'vs' thread. The music is different - that's why we need both of them. Do a 'vs' pitting either of them against, say, Ditters von Dittersdorf, then you have something measurable - maybe.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Haydn or Mozart vs Dittersdorf.

That would REALLY be dumb.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Itullian said:


> Haydn or Mozart vs Dittersdorf.
> 
> That would REALLY be dumb.


Try writing an essay, sticking to facts, eschewing mere opinions. Avoid 'great' and 'best'.

:devil:


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Haydn for symphonies and choral music, Mozart for concertos and operas. For chamber and instrumental music, they are square. And for pop/rock music, Jethro Tull, of course.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

pollux said:


> haydn for symphonies and choral music, mozart for concertos and operas. For chamber and instrumental music, they are square. And for pop/rock music, jethro tull, of course.


you got it, pollux!!!


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Itullian said:


> you got it, pollux!!!


I knew you would appreciate my opinions about Mozart and Haydn


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

As with jhar26, I would vote for Mozart against anyone so obviously I would pick him over Haydn. I do love Haydn, but I don't think I would pick his works over Mozart in any major category (i.e. symphonies, concertos, chamber, vocal, opera, etc.).


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Haydn was far too light for my taste, I tend to be a late romanticist leaning listener, so Mozart to me has some wonderfully moving bits, and Haydn, well, he just sounds stuffy to me. I do enjoy his symphonies from time to time.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Itullian said:


> i always go back and forth on this thought.


You probably think too much.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> You probably think too much.


you're right.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

On piano and violín, Mozart
On chamber, Haydn.
Symphonics, choral, religious, don't interested me.


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## Ciara (Nov 18, 2011)

Hello, this may not be strictly related, but I have a Mozart related question . . . I have been trying to find out whether Pamina's Aria from Die Zauberflote (ach ich fuhls es ist verswunden) has recitative? Short of buying the score I can't find the answer anywhere! Please, if someone can help me, I would be so grateful! 

Thanks. 

And in answer to the question they're both incredible, how can you choose?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Ciara said:


> Hello, this may not be strictly related, but I have a Mozart related question . . . I have been trying to find out whether Pamina's Aria from Die Zauberflote (ach ich fuhls es ist verswunden) has recitative? Short of buying the score I can't find the answer anywhere! Please, if someone can help me, I would be so grateful!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> And in answer to the question they're both incredible, how can you choose?


No, that aria doesn't have any recitative sections in it.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Ok seriously, why the **** does a video called "Homo Massage" appear in the suggestion box to this video of Mozart? What are they implying???

Edit: Of course everyone knows that I don't have a problem with homosexuals, but seriously? If you like this Mozart aria you must be a raging gay man that likes watching gay men massage each other? What?? Bad youtube! Bad boy!


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## Ciara (Nov 18, 2011)

Rats! Thanks Violadude


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

I choose Haydn over Mozart. My reason is simply that I think Haydn's music is more rich and varied in ideas, more exciting, more relaxing, more 'earthy', and yes, more masculine.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

shangoyal said:


> I choose Haydn over Mozart. My reason is simply that I think Haydn's music is more rich and varied in ideas, more exciting, more relaxing, more 'earthy', and yes, more masculine.


Well, the "masculine" part I can understand. Haydn's music had a more rustic quality to it than Mozart's. One can see the direct line from Haydn to Beethoven.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Mozart can sometimes sound rustic and Haydn sometimes graceful. Performances can also greatly accentuate or diminish such features. It can certainly be argued that Mozart is more rich in ideas than Haydn at times, Mozart is known for his melodic fecundity. I'm not sure if earthy and relaxing go together for most people either.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well yeah. Think of Masetto, the country bumpkin in Don Giovanni and Mozart's music for him. Even so, the music has an inescapable elegance that just seemed to come with the name Mozart.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

It's been said plenty that Haydn is earthy and the comparison of Haydn to Beethoven has been done plenty (including by me). But people can also get caught up and stereotype everything as well. They were actually influencing on each other and were both part of the generally elegant classical style. But really people's preference can be whatever they want. But 'relaxing' 'exciting' all very subjective. And more rich and varied, not sure there for reasons I gave. Haydn's style if anything is more consistent than Mozart's, and Mozart did vary his style over his short life. Mozart's style may be more vocal, but that's also one of the reasons it's probably more attractive to many than Haydn's style. People are often attracted to fluent music.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

starry said:


> It's been said plenty that Haydn is earthy and the comparison of Haydn to Beethoven has been done plenty (including by me). But people can also get caught up and stereotype everything as well. They were actually influencing on each other and were both part of the generally elegant classical style. But really people's preference can be whatever they want. But 'relaxing' 'exciting' all very subjective. And more rich and varied, not sure there for reasons I gave. Haydn's style if anything is more consistent than Mozart's, and Mozart did vary his style over his short life. Mozart's style may be more vocal, but that's also one of the reasons it's probably more attractive to many than Haydn's style. People are often attracted to fluent music.


Are you implying Haydn's music is not fluent? What do you mean by fluent - maybe I misunderstood. Well, Mozart seems to be the far more popular composer, at least these days. This is probably due to the fact that his style is more operatic, with more emphasis on melody. However, I think Haydn compensates Mozart's melodic abilities with his sheer creativity and inventiveness. He loved trying new things out, playing with sound, and incorporating different stylistic elements - he could often sound very baroque in the minor mode, for eg. Personally, I prefer Haydn but I could also see why some prefer Mozart. It depends what the listener's looking for.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Yes, it is incredulous to assume that somebody who prefers Haydn to Mozart is stereotyping the composers. I listen to the two composers every day, and I detect qualities in Haydn (a rustic flavour for one) that I do not in Mozart.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn and Mozart were both great composers. 
For keyboard concertos, I prefer Mozart. For string quartets I prefer Haydn.
For symphonies I prefer Haydn. For operas, I prefer Mozart.
For masses, I like them both equally.
I'm glad both these great men walked the earth. Both indispensable.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Well, Mozart seems to be the far more popular composer, at least these days. This is probably due to the fact that his style is more operatic, with more emphasis on melody.


This is exactly what I meant.

I agree it depends on stylistic preferences in the main. Haydn could be very inventive even if his material at times seems sparser, he probably did more monothematic movements. Mozart himself defended Haydn once, saying he thought of things nobody else could. And yet Mozart was probably more creative in the amount of melody, if not in the development. So it may depend what kind of creativity appeals to you more. I would understand those who put Haydn ahead in chamber/keyboard works, though Mozart as a writer for orchestra could be the best of his time for me. Maybe the arguably sparser but inventive style of Haydn was best suited to fewer instruments, whereas Mozart's melodic fecundity could be spread around lots of instruments.


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## Mister Man (Feb 3, 2014)

I would prefer Mozart. 

For the record I find both Haydn and Mozart boring to listen to, usually. An insultingly simple answer considering the volume and diversity of their works.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I like both. But I prefer Mozart. I like Haydn's Sturm un Drang period best from him.


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## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

I marginally like Haydn better, mostly due to his colorful scoring in his symphonies. But I have plenty of music by both in my library.


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## Roi N (Oct 22, 2013)

These two are the cream of the crop. They are the pinnacle of all music. They outclass everyone else by far. And as much as I love Mozart (and believe me, I do), Haydn is just better. I mean, look at the masterpieces - All the London and Paris symphonies, as well as 61-75 are amazing. The piano sonata medium is far better than Mozart's, and although Mozart's piano concerti are unmached, his other concerti are inferior to the Haydn concerti. And to add to that list the 68 Quartets Haydn wrote? This isn't as close as one might suggest.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Many of Haydn's piano sonatas are just plain dullsville. Otherwise, I love Haydn's music.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Many of Haydn's piano sonatas are just plain dullsville. Otherwise, I love Haydn's music.


Listen to Sokolov play them.

If you still find them 'dullsville', that's the breaks, man.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Many of Haydn's piano sonatas are just plain dullsville. Otherwise, I love Haydn's music.


Nah, you're thinking of Mozart. :tiphat:


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Many of Haydn's piano sonatas are just plain dullsville. Otherwise, I love Haydn's music.


Boo!  Haydn's late sonatas are excellent and there are many hidden gems in-between. Listen to his sonatas in the minor key as well.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Roi N said:


> Haydn is just better. I mean, look at the masterpieces - All the Paris symphonies, as well as 61-75 are amazing. and although Mozart's piano concerti are unmached, his other concerti are inferior to the Haydn concerti.


Much of this is very much a matter of opinion.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2014)

Haydn _versus_ Mozart? Beethoven _versus_ Mozart? Why always these difficult "Sophie's choices"? 
Can't we make it easier?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn! Mozart! Mozart! Haydn!
When I can't make up my mind, I just do the logical thing, play Vincent Persichetti.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree they were both great composers, for me Haydn was more consistent and his symphonic works give me more the greatest pleasure. However Mozart could reach occasional higher peaks e.g piano concerto 23 than anyone who has ever lived.
Never the less I would still chose Haydn for the pleasure he brings me


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn man said:


> I agree they were both great composers, for me Haydn was more consistent and his symphonic works give me more the greatest pleasure. However Mozart could reach occasional higher peaks e.g piano concerto 23 than anyone who has ever lived.
> Never the less I would still chose Haydn for the pleasure he brings me


I agree in that I prefer Haydn's symphonies to Mozart's.


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

Probably because Mozart is more "melodic", or at least has longer melody lines. Haydn has short motivs?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

We need some more active Mozart fans. It seems the Haydn fans post way more often.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Where they be Haydn'???


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Roi N said:


> I mean, look at the masterpieces - All the London and Paris symphonies, as well as 61-75 are amazing. The piano sonata medium is far better than Mozart's, and although Mozart's piano concerti are unmached, his other concerti are inferior to the Haydn concerti. And to add to that list the 68 Quartets Haydn wrote? This isn't as close as one might suggest.


A composer's reputation rests on their best work, though, and Mozart's last 5-6 symphonies are generally more esteemed and performed more often than many of Haydn's symphonies, and they placed higher on this website's own top symphonies list. The same thing happens with the sonatas: There are more by Haydn, but Mozart's best(the a minor, f major k.332, c minor, and B-flat k.333) are more often performed and recorded. And finally, none of Mozart's concerti that aren't for piano are in any way inferior to Haydn's: The clarinet concerto, horn, flute, oboe, violin concerti, flute and harp, bassoon, and sinfonia concertante?

Also, you didn't mention the operas, serenades, violin sonatas where Mozart does have the upper hand, as well as the masterpieces Mozart wrote in sacred music.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Haydn wrote quite a few wonderful masses too.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

hpowders said:


> Haydn wrote quite a few wonderful masses too.


I know, but I prefer the power Mozart gets his neo-Baroque, sometimes operatic masses. Haydn's symphonic style in his masses is nearly the same as it is in his symphonies, but with an added choir. Mozart attempted to imbue the style of Handel's oratorios and Bach's masses with his own and he succeeded brilliantly, and also influenced Haydn's own work in his Harmoniemesse.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

trazom said:


> I know, but I prefer the power Mozart gets his neo-Baroque, sometimes operatic masses. Haydn's symphonic style in his masses is nearly the same as it is in his symphonies, but with an added choir. Mozart attempted to imbue the style of Handel's oratorios and Bach's masses with his own and he succeeded brilliantly, and also influenced Haydn's own work in his Harmoniemesse.


 I like 'em both. Sometimes I'm not in the mood for being dazzled by Mozart. I'd rather simply be delighted instead by the Bear or Surprise symphonies.

I like Haydn's late masses. But I like Mozart's c minor mass even more.

Both composers have withstood the test of time. I don't foresee that changing anytime soon.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

They're both pretty rad.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Just listened to Haydn's 93rd and 94th symphonies plus the C major cello concerto.

That music is as great as anything penned by Mozart and by anyone else for that matter.

Word up!!


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## Jonathan Wrachford (Feb 8, 2014)

I really like Mozart, especially when it comes to the works of his Music with Piano and Violin combined. Anyone else like it?


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Jonathan Wrachford said:


> I really like Mozart, especially when it comes to the works of his Music with Piano and Violin combined. Anyone else like it?


I don't just like them violin sonatas, I love 'em!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I prefer J.S. Bach to either Mozart or Haydn.


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## jefreunde (Feb 26, 2014)

i have a book abour music theory from the time i was in my hometown conservatory of music learning classical guitar and piano, and in one of the pages theres a part of a Hadyn symphony for strings and below it theres a part of a Mozart symphony for strings.
They say that Mozart wrote the symphony right after Hydn (his proffesor at the moment) showed Mozart his new symphony. They say that Mozart sat on the piano right after have seeing the scores and played his symphony so close in verses to the Hydn's, as one can see in the book i mentioned above

Really amazing! purpose of a genius


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Edited for content.


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## Jonathan Wrachford (Feb 8, 2014)

Yeah, Bach Is really cool. I don't know if l necessarily like it more than Mozart, but, maybe. I am a big fan of Bach


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## John Kiunke (Mar 25, 2016)

Haydn 
-	Symphony No. 6 in D
-	Symphony No. 45 in F# minor
-	Symphony No. 88 in G major
-	Symphony No. 92 in G major
-	Symphony No. 94 in G major
-	Symphony No. 100 in G major
-	Symphony No. 101 in D major
-	Symphony No. 104 in D major
Mozart
-	Symphony No. 25 in G minor
-	Symphony No. 29 in A major
-	Symphony No. 35 in D major
-	Symphony No. 36 in C major
-	Symphony No. 38 in D major
-	Symphony No. 39 in Eb major
-	Symphony No. 40 in G minor
-	Symphony No. 41 in C major
Haydn
-	String Quartet Op. 33/2 in Eb major
-	String Quartet Op. 33/3 in C major
-	String Quartet Op. 76/2 in D minor
-	String Quartet Op. 76/4 in Bb major
-	String Quartet Op. 76/5 in D major
Mozart
-	String Quartet No. 14 in G major
-	String Quartet No. 15 in D minor
-	String Quartet No. 19 in C major
-	String Quartet No. 20 in D major
-	String Quartet No. 22 in Bb major
Haydn
-	Stabat Mater in G minor
-	Mass in G major
-	Mass in D minor
-	Mass in Bb major
-	Mass in Bb major
-	Mass in Bb major
Mozart
-	Mass in C major
-	Mass in C minor
-	Requiem in D minor
-	Laudate Dominum
-	Vesperae in C major
Haydn
-	Armida
-	Orlando Paladino
-	Die Schopfung
-	Die Jahrezeiten
Mozart
-	Mitridate
-	La finta giardenira
-	Lucio Silla
-	Idomeneo
-	Die Enfuhrung aus dem Serail
-	Le nozze di Figaro
-	Don Giovanni
-	Cosi Fan Tutte
-	La clemenza di Tito
-	Die Zauberflote
Haydn
-	Piano Concerto No. 11 in D major
-	Trumpet Concerto in Eb major
-	Sinfonia Concertante in Bb major
-	Cello Concerto No. 1 in C major
-	Cello Concerto No. 2 in D major
Mozart
-	Piano Concerto No. 9 in Eb major
-	Piano Concerto No. 11 in F major
-	Piano Concerto No. 12 in A major
-	Piano Concerto No. 17 in G major
-	Piano Concerto No. 20 in D minor
-	Piano Concerto No. 21 in C major
-	Piano Concerto No. 22 in Eb major
-	Piano Concerto No. 23 in A major
-	Piano Concerto No. 24 in C minor
-	Piano Concerto No. 26 in D major
-	Piano Concerto No. 27 in Bb major
-	Violin Concerto No. 3 in G major
-	Violin Concerto No. 5 in A major
-	Sinfonia Concertante in Eb major
FINAL SCORE: 
Haydn – 28
Mozart – 42


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

John Kiunke said:


> Haydn
> -	Symphony No. 6 in D
> -	Symphony No. 45 in F# minor
> -	Symphony No. 88 in G major
> ...


You have a clear winner .


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Its strange. When i am in Mozart mode I am obsessed. When I am not, I could go months or more without and not miss his music. With Haydn, the peaks are not quite so high but I tend to listen more frequently


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2016)

Michael has composed much more interesting music than Leopold, however if we were to consider that statement for a moment then it might be more correct to say that Michael's music is what I am considerably more interested in. 

On the other hand, (Franz) Joseph wrote words which interest me less than Wolfgang's words.


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