# Best Wintereisse?



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Schubert's setting of Muller's verse is generally reckoned to be the greatest song cycle ever written. Which versions on CD do you rate as the best?


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## Musicophile (May 29, 2015)

My personal favorite is Prégardien / Staier followed by Goerne/Eschenbach.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Hotter/Moore (EMI, rec.1954) for older, Quasthoff/Spencer (RCA, rec.1998) for newer. :tiphat:


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Souzay / Baldwin


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Peter Anders also very good.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Kaufmann/Deutsch for me.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Musicophile said:


> My personal favorite is Prégardien / Staier followed by Goerne/Eschenbach.


I must be a real outlier, but I have the Goerne/Eschenbach and I can't tolerate the sound of his voice. I guess I just can't get the sound of FD out of my mind


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> Kaufmann/Deutsch for me.


I am with you for 50%, I do like Bostridge/ Andsnes also very much.:tiphat:


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2015)

Wood said:


> Peter Anders also very good.


Is this the wartime recording with Raucheisen to which you are referring? I have heard some about this - worth the money?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just to put in my four pennyworth I was adding up the number of recordings I have of this work.

I first got to know it with *Pears / Britten *(LP out of the library) which is a terrific performance if you're not adverse to Pears' rather nasal timbre. Britten almost 'recreates' the piano accompaniment. I've just had the good fortune to get this second hand very cheap so looking forward to reaquaintance!

*Fischer-Diskau* is different, more stoical. I think it's to him we owe the tradition of an interventionist interpretation. He recorded it many times. The one I like is the 1971 with Moore. By the time he recorded it with Brendel the voice was going although Brendel provides plenty of illumination from the keyboard. Avoid the version with Perahia as the voice is completely shot. Just why D F-D allowed this to be released is beyond me because it does the legacy of a great singer no favours.

*Schreier / Richter.* Schreier did not attempt Wintereisse until he was 50 and studied it with Richter. This is (imo) the greatest performance on disc, a searing live interpretation with the tenor at the height of his powers. A weird, half-crazed tiredness haunts the voice and the interpretation builds to a point of almost insanity. Be warned that the audience is very bronchial.

*Schreier* re-recorded it for Decca with *Schiff *- a more mainstream performance which many prefer to the one with Richter. Can be recommended without reservation.

*Padmore / Lewis *- Understated yet passionate; reflective yet not self-indulgent; spare, yet rich in the wonderful melodies in which the cycle abounds, it succeeds in meeting many quite disparate expectations, yet makes no compromises.

*Ian Bostridge / Leif Ove Andsnes* - another searing performance I haven't caught up on yet properly. I got it as a set with the other song cycles and the Bostridge / Drake DVD of Wintereisse. A fine performance if you can take the odd production.

*Kaufmann / Deutch* - very powerful. Perhaps the nearest to Jon Vickers approach. Love it!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

So far, I don´t think I´ve found a really perfect version;

I´ve got F-D/Billing (1948), F-D/Moore, F-D/Demus, Theo Adam/Dunckel, and Cold/Mikkelsen, 
plus a boring piano solo recording by Risaliti, in the arrangement by Liszt.

Skipped that very weird Shura Gehrman recording, in English.

BTW, the cycle could be orchestrated, I guess ...


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

joen_cph said:


> So far, I don´t think I´ve found a really perfect version;
> 
> I´ve got F-D/Billing (1948), F-D/Moore, F-D/Demus, Theo Adam/Dunckel, and Cold/Mikkelsen,
> plus a boring piano solo recording by Risaliti, in the arrangement by Liszt.
> ...


Saw that in the Nimbus catalogue years ago, and wondered whether anyone actually ordered it!

Orchestrated?! Noooo... enough orchestral music out there already, methinks!


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

DrMike said:


> Is this the wartime recording with Raucheisen to which you are referring? I have heard some about this - worth the money?


Its the 1948 with Weissenborn that I have. I'll have to try the Rauchelsen too. They're both on Youtube.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Gehrman is very passionate and has an interesting, dark voice, which I like, but technically as a singer he lacks refinement (his main occupation at the time was managing the Nimbus record Company - cf. http://www.norpete.com/v2386.html, http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/nimbus-cd-international-inc-history/).


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

When Wood played me part of the Anders/ Weissenborn recording it sounded not just good but familiar, and now I see why: I have the CD myself, though I've no memory of having acquired it! I also seem to have acquired and instantly forgotten a version by Bernard Kruysen and Gerard van Blerk. Another one that I remember buying (for Julius Patzak's Schöne Müllerin which was in the same box set) is by Hans Hotter and Michael Raucheisen- whether I've ever played it, I couldn't say! I recently heard part of Jules Bastin's recording on YouTube and it was beautifully sung, but a good deal less nuanced than Souzay. I'll still probably buy a copy once I'm solvent enough to start buying CDs again. I have the Pears/ Britten and enjoy listening to it occasionally. The reason why I have so many Winterreises and don't listen to them is because I was so smitten with Gerard Souzay's beautiful recording that nobody else comes close: I liked the piece enough to want to buy different versions, but when it came to actually listening, I wanted Souzay and nobody else. I don't think anyone can touch him for beauty of tone or for expression and feeling: he really lives every single song, and of course the poems are so vivid and psychologically true and the settings so beautiful too, that this recording is an emotionally overwhelming, sublime experience. It was also on YouTube last time I checked. I may have to listen to the others again, as it's no bad thing to have different versions to compare. In fact, I think the first professional vocal recital I ever went to was Winterreise in the Holywell Music Room. The singer was a non-famous German baritone whose name escapes me- he did a pretty good job, and the excitement of being at a live performance amply compensated for the fact that he wasn't Gerard Souzay!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Just to put in my four pennyworth I was adding up the number of recordings I have of this work.
> 
> I first got to know it with *Pears / Britten *(LP out of the library) which is a terrific performance if you're not adverse to Pears' rather nasal timbre. Britten almost 'recreates' the piano accompaniment. I've just had the good fortune to get this second hand very cheap so looking forward to reaquaintance!
> 
> ...


Strange that I've never heard the Schreier, since I prefer his Schöne Müllerin to any other. I'll have to look that out.

I seem to have a blind spot for Dietrich Fischer Dieskau. His voice never seemed special to me, and his interpretations struck me as affected and uninvolving. Maybe I didn't give him much of a chance: I think I threw away the LPs and recorded over the tapes! Ian Bostridge is another conundrum. I saw a bit of him at university, as his brother in law was in my year. At that time I was a keen attender of lunchtime recitals given by choral scholars, and although there was a bit of a buzz around Bostridge, who was just on the cusp of fame, I didn't think his voice or interpretations were _that_ much better than those of the young choristers whom he resembled, and had recently been one of. Compare and contrast the late Peter Pears: you can hear he came from the same English choral tradition, but he had a charisma and individuality that makes Bostridge seem very ordinary and generic.

I'll also pass on Kaufman (who may well have plenty to offer interpretation-wise) and Vickers. Lovers of the tenor voice ought to enjoy Peter Anders.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Its possible that in recent times the Peter Anders 1945 recording has replaced two or three other long-time favorites as my desert island Winterreise.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I like Schreier/Richter very much, and I also have enjoyed Pears/Britten.

I don't know if there's a barytone recording which I like - there was one by Fischer Dieskau quite early, with Klaus Billing, which I thought was good, but it's a while since I head it. And recently I got one which sounds exceptional with Hynninen/Gothami (their 1980 recital) - I've only heard it a couple of times though.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

I don't know about the "best". It's wonderful that we have such choice of excellent recordings by first rate artists. Though I've found a Schoene Muellerin or two hard to listen to, I can't remember that that has ever been my experience with Winterreise.

The one I usually reach for from my own collection is the Fischer-Dieskau/Jorg Demus DG recording of 1965.


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## KTNYC (Nov 5, 2015)

FD's voice is with me too, forever. Why try to get it out of your mind? Others wonderful too...


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2015)

I do enjoy Fischer-Dieskau, and he is a favorite. I have his DG recording with Demus, and have always enjoyed it. I also really like the Padmore/Lewis cycle of Schubert Lieder. I am always up for more, and wish I could find a digital download of the Anders/Raucheisen wartime recording. Anybody know where one can be found?


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

"I seem to have a blind spot for Dietrich Fischer Dieskau. His voice never seemed special to me...." - Figleaf

You beat me to the punch. Me neither. Maybe you had to be there.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

It´s quite amazing how F-D´s voice changed through the years - that of the earliest F-D recordings have a very very different sound from the middle and late ones. 

IMHO, the early HMV recordings in particular tend to be a bit more expressive and less polished than the later ones, and yet the voice itself has - how should I put it - a softer, brighter tone.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> It´s quite amazing how F-D´s voice changed through the years - that of the earliest F-D recordings have a very very different sound from the middle and late ones.
> 
> IMHO, the early HMV recordings in particular tend to be a bit more expressive and less polished than the later ones, and yet the voice itself has - how should I put it - a softer, brighter tone.


Early D F-D the voice is very beautiful indeed


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

Schreier/Richter for me! Never been a fan of Richter style of playing, but in Winterreise he is certainly not himself, and i like it!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Early D F-D the voice is very beautiful indeed


I liked him very much when I first heard him on The Record of Singing 4, in good voice and actually _singing_, but the later, more famous recordings from his interpretative 'prime' were a huge disappointment. Dried out voice and performances totally lacking spontaneity and done in that annoying speech-singing style. No thanks.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> I liked him very much when I first heard him on The Record of Singing 4, in good voice and actually _singing_, but the later, more famous recordings from his interpretative 'prime' were a huge disappointment. Dried out voice and performances totally lacking spontaneity and done in that annoying speech-singing style. No thanks.


My sentiments exactly. I want singers to sing the words, not try to prove that they know what the words mean.

If Fischer-D and Joan Sutherland had produced an offspring, it might have gotten the enunciation thing just right.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just reacquainting with the Pears - Britten. Once you get used to Pears' voice it is very special indeed!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

I discovered that I also have Marko Rothmüller's Winterreise on CD, accompanied by Suzanne Gyr. It's attractively sung but rather monochrome: the songs need more variety of tone and emotion as the poor narrator goes through every one of Kübler-Ross' stages of grief, and then some. Interpretatively, Rothmüller isn't in the same league as Souzay, Pears or Kruysen. Rothmüller's recording dates from 1945- does anybody know of an earlier Winterreise on record?


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## Wood (Feb 21, 2013)

Figleaf said:


> I discovered that I also have Marko Rothmüller's Winterreise on CD, accompanied by Suzanne Gyr. It's attractively sung but rather monochrome: the songs need more variety of tone and emotion as the poor narrator goes through every one of Kübler-Ross' stages of grief, and then some. Interpretatively, Rothmüller isn't in the same league as Souzay, Pears or Kruysen. Rothmüller's recording dates from 1945- does anybody know of an earlier Winterreise on record?


There were a few:

Austrian Hans Duhan from 1928:

http://recordplayer78.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/waiting-for-hans-duhans-winterreise.html

German Gerhard Husch from 1933:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Wi...&qid=1447498849&sr=8-3&keywords=gerhard+husch

Also there is Lotte Lehmann (1941), Karl Schmitt-Walter (1943) and Hans Hotter (1943).

No French, or indeed any non-Germanics, as far as I know, until the 1960s.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Wood said:


> There were a few:
> 
> Austrian Hans Duhan from 1928:
> 
> ...


Great detective work, thanks! I've visited Emilio's Blog before and admired his enthusiasm and doggedness in tracking down ancient (and occasionally mythical) recordings, but I wouldn't have thought of looking there for Winterreise information. I have the Hotter recording I think- at any rate it's a wartime one with Michael Raucheisen at the piano. I think Schmitt-Walter should be especially worth seeking out if the quality of his other Lieder recordings is anything to go by.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Vaneyes said:


> "I seem to have a blind spot for Dietrich Fischer Dieskau. His voice never seemed special to me...." - Figleaf
> 
> You beat me to the punch. Me neither. Maybe you had to be there.


His voice may not have been "special" (it's not what I would call an "important" voice), however, it was distinctive. In any case who cares, with his seamless legato, expert, yet subtle word painting and understated sense of theatre (whilst still being perfectly in keeping with the intimate style of Lieder) his vocal quality is of secondary importance to me.

These are my two favourite Winterreises (and the two against which all others are judged):

















N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Note Vickers Wintereisse just released again

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016AV262M/ref=pe_313591_87959321_em_sim_3_im


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Just got the Vickers Wintereisse. Might be called unconventional - unlike any other. Tristan meets Muller!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I have to agree that DFD isn't my favourite singer bu I actually quite like his final Winterreise with Perahia. His voice might be old and busted at that point but I think a disheveled voice fits the theme of the songs better than someone in the prime of their voice.

I don't think i've found the perfect Winterreise, I like Hotter/Moore, Bostridge/Andsnes most out the ones i've heard but none of them seem the perfect one. I definitely want to hear Christine Schäfer's recording as I really like her voice although haven't been impressed by most of the female singers in the work. The one I do really like that isn't very ideal is Nataaa Mirkovi De Ro accompanied by Matthias Loibner on the hurdy-gurdy, gives a very eerie feel.


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## LNeiva (Dec 6, 2015)

1. Dieskau/J. Demüs
2. Dieskau/Moore

(and light years away from those)

3. Hotter/Moore
4. Quasthoff/Spencer

etc.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Note Vickers Wintereisse just released again
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016AV262M/ref=pe_313591_87959321_em_sim_3_im


Look what I found in a second-hand shop:
​Mint, from a record collector who is selling his vinyl.
€5,00


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

So far, the only cycles of _Winterreise_ that I know are Dietrich Fischer-Diskau's w Gerald Moore and Ian Bostridge's with Leif Ove Andsnes . I really love them both, though I will be looking for Robin Tritschler's recording when one is released. Schreier and Hotter are two that I will be collecting, as well.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Look what I found in a second-hand shop:
> ​Mint, from a record collector who is selling his vinyl.
> €5,00


Not a first choice but a 'must hear'. Tristan meets Muller! :lol:


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

My favorites are:

Güra/Berner
Hotter/Moore
Pregardien/Staier


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Not a first choice but a 'must hear'. Tristan meets Muller! :lol:


Not bad either, I am so glad you mention this recording.
Having it it in it's original cover for that price?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Pugg said:


> Not bad either, I am so glad you mention this recording.
> Having it it in it's original cover for that price?


I got the CD reissue in the Vickers memorial album. Vinyl has long since departed my collection. there are some original vinyls which are now quite valuable to a collector.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

I like the padmore / Lewes a lot. I also enjoy the quastoff / spencer but only for the sound of his voice- for me I does not touch the emotional depth that padmore achieves...proper bleak!


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

quack said:


> I definitely want to hear Christine Schäfer's recording as I really like her voice although haven't been impressed by most of the female singers in the work. The one I do really like that isn't very ideal is Nataaa Mirkovi De Ro accompanied by Matthias Loibner on the hurdy-gurdy, gives a very eerie feel.


Schäfer's recording is excellent, as is Brigitte Fassbaender's with Aribert Reimann on piano. I'm glad I'm not the only one to like the "hurdy-gurdy" version, by the way!

Not _echt_ Schubert, and certainly not for the purist, Hans Zender's dramatic "mutant" version is worth checking out. I have two recordings, both excellent, one of which is by Hans Peter Blochwitz with _Ensemble Modern_ conducted by the (re)composer:






The other recording is _Klangforum Wien_ conducted by Sylvain Cambreling and sung by Christoph Prégardien. The latter has also recorded a more straightforward arrangement with the the ensemble _Pentaèdre_, and a polished account of Schubert's original cycle with Andreas Staier at the piano.


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## EarthBoundRules (Sep 25, 2011)

My favourite is definitely Dieskau/Moore.


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