# TC Listening Club Week 1: Symphony No. 1 in E Flat (Borodin)



## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

For those who have not bought the CDs, here are the YouTube links:

1. Adagio:




2. Prestissimo:




3. Andante:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG22B...feature=relmfu
4. Allegro molto vivo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DarOL...feature=relmfu

Here are some available purchasing options. There are many more available, but these are all reasonably priced:

Symphonies 1-3 (CSR Symphony Orchestra, Gunzenhauser) (Naxos)
Symphonies 1-3 (Seattle Symphony, Schwarz) (Naxos)
Tchaikovsky Symphony 2, Borodin Symphony 1 (Norwegian Radio Orchestra, Rasilainen) (Apex)
The Essential Borodin: Symphony 1 performed by LSO (Solti) (Decca)
Symphonies 1-3 (National Philharmonic Orchestra, Tjeknavorian) (RCA)
Symphonies 1-3 (Orchestra Sinfonica di Roma, Serebrier) (ASV)
Symphonies 1-2 (USSR Symphony Orchestra, Svetlanov) (CDK)

OTHER INFORMATION

Symphony No. 1 in E-flat major

Born: November 12, 1833, in St. Petersburg 
Died: February 27, 1887, in Moscow 
Work composed: 1862-67 
World premiere: January 16, 1869, in St. Petersburg; Mily Balakirev conducting 
In brief: Borodin's First Symphony has several themes whose melodic contours evoke the sound of Russian folk songs. Borodin treats his ideas in the context of a large-scale orchestral composition, creating a work that is discernibly Russian but also thoroughly Romantic in tone and part of the larger symphonic tradition.

During the second half of the 19th century, a group of Russian composers self-consciously set out to create a style of opera and concert music distinct from that of Western Europe but yielding nothing to it in quality or originality. Interestingly, several of these composers were not professional musicians but practiced their art while pursuing careers in other fields. Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov was for many years a naval officer before he retired and finally devoted himself entirely to music. Modest Mussorgsky worked as a clerk in Russia's civil service, while César Cui was a military engineer.

None of these composers, however, cultivated non-musical interests as energetically or productively as Alexander Borodin. Raised in an upper middle-class family in St. Petersburg, Czarist Russia's capital, Borodin showed an early aptitude for music but also for languages and science. He attended medical school, where he was drawn especially to the study of chemistry. After serving as a military surgeon, he researched and taught medicinal chemistry, publishing a number of scientific papers and attaining the post of professor at the Medico-Surgical Academy in St. Petersburg.

Borodin's distinguished career as a chemist confined his musical activities to vacations and spare hours. He had become a competent cellist and pianist during his boyhood, and he had begun writing songs and other short pieces, but he had no training in composition until he was nearly 30. His instruction began in 1862, when he met Mily Balakirev and, like many other Russian musicians of his day, came under the influence of that composer's strong - one might say overbearing - personality.

Balakirev was one of the most important and influential musicians in 19th-century Russia. An ardent nationalist, he passionately advocated for compositions based on dramatic and folkloric ideas, which he viewed as a means to impart a decidedly Russian character to music. In time he assumed the role of leader and spokesman of a group of nationalist composers that included not only himself and Borodin but Glinka, Rimsky-Korsakov and Mussorgsky. For a while, he also strongly influenced Tchaikovsky.

With typical presumption, Balakirev took it upon himself to direct Borodin's development as a composer. That self-appointment surely reflected Balakirev's renowned egotism, but it also produced tangible and important results. Under his new mentor's guidance, Borodin began writing a symphony in the autumn of 1862, his first orchestral piece and first large-scale composition. Though he completed most of its opening movement before the end of the year, the rest of the work followed slowly, due to Borodin's professional obligations. Not until 1867 was the full score complete. Balakirev conducted its initial performance, early in 1869. The symphony's enthusiastic reception greatly encouraged Borodin, spurring him to further ambitious compositions.

Borodin's symphony follows the standard four-movement design, beginning with an introduction in slow tempo that prefaces the first movement proper. Balakirev's influence is evident at once in the Russian flavor of the low-voiced melody played during the early moments of this prelude. Borodin uses the same theme, but harmonized and scored more brightly, during the Allegro that forms the main body of the movement. The other ideas that make up this portion of the symphony also have a pronounced Russian accent, and one can only admire the boldness with which the relatively inexperienced Borodin handles them. The movement's tranquil conclusion, after much highly energetic music, is an original and effective touch.

The second movement brings a scherzo, lightly scampering and enlivened by some complicated rhythms, with a more relaxed central episode providing an element of contrast and a suggestion of Russian folk music. The broad slow movement that follows brings further evidence of the symphony's nationality.

The finale owes much of its interest to lively and occasionally complex rhythmic play, which lends the music considerable energy. Some commentators - especially Gerald Abraham, an English music historian who devoted much of his studies to 19th-century Russian composers - have noted the closeness of this movement to the symphonic manner of Robert Schumann, whose music Borodin openly admired. That may be true, but the overall freshness and vitality of Borodin's invention renders any stylistic debt largely irrelevant.

Scored for 2 flutes; 2 oboes, the first doubling on English horn; 2 clarinets and 2 bassoons; 4 horns, 2 trumpets and 3 trombones; timpani and strings.

(This information taken from past program notes from the Seattle Symphony web page)


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

The TC Listening Club Week 2 thread will begin on Mon 18th Jun and the piece will be Beethoven: String Quartet No. 15, Op. 132.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Oh man, I better get on this one.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

@ crmoorhead

You've already said everything. I have nothing professional to add!
I enjoy the most from 3rd and 2nd movements, then 1st and 4th.

If I want to score I give this symphony 8/10 .
Scoring is a matter of debate. In this case both my liking score and professional score are almost the same.

This CD I listened to:


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## Merve (Jun 7, 2012)

I haven't listened to this at all yet, but for those who have, I think it would be interesting to hear your views on different recordings of the piece.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> @ crmoorhead
> 
> You've already said everything. I have nothing professional to add!
> I enjoy the most from 3rd and 2nd movements, then 1st and 4th.
> ...


There is some other material I found elsewhere on the net, but I picked the best article I could find. Ratings would be a good idea. I have listened to the youtube links, but my discs are coming in the post later in the week. We could use this first week to find a good regular format. Apologies if I went a bit overkill with the first post!


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## Chrythes (Oct 13, 2011)

I especially like the alarm that goes off near the end of the first movement. 
But overall I quite enjoyed it. It's jolly, maybe even too much at times, but it works.
I'd give it 7/10.

This is the recording I listened to -


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Really cool idea crmoorhead! I will try and participate every week as time allows and I can listen to the pieces you select. For the Borodin I'm actually listening to one you don't list. It's a live recording by the Moscow Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra with Yuri Siminov conducting. I'm a big fan of Borodin's music and especially love his symphonies and string quartets. The first symphony has quite a few memorable melodies. He was very lyrical in the way he wrote and can be quite moving at times. This particular recording has some defect being live because you can hear some audience noise but the performance is superb. For me I prefer Russian composers performed by Russian orchestras. They seem to have a better feel for the rhythms and tempos of their national composers. I'm sure there are good recordings not done by Russians but that's my preference. I would also have to give this symphony a 8 out of 10. It is one of my all time favorites and this recording really has gusto and verve in the final movement. It almost makes me wish I was a Russian! 










Kevin


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

@Kevin Pearson

Thanks, but I can't take credit. We have been organising this in another thread:

http://www.talkclassical.com/19752-listening-club.html

You can add yourself to the list of interested posters and nominate a piece for us all to listen to. The current rule is that the pieces must be available on YouTube and there is no length restriction. Every week, we will select the next nominated piece working from the top of the list down. If the poster in the next slot has yet to select a piece, he/she can defer to anothers choice (thereby moving forward the schedule for that piece) or the next nominated piece will be chosen by default. Pieces must be selected at least a week in advance so that people have time to purchase recordings if they wish. Also, although the threads will have a defined start day (every Monday), discussion will last as long as people are interested. A master thread will also be created at some point that will reference all the discussion threads as well as the current list of members and nominations.

I agree that Russian conductors and orchestras seem to have a better feel for their music. My exposure to Borodin, however, is next to none; all I have listened to before are a few recordings of Polovstian Dances and In The Steppes of Central Asia. There is a really excellent video of Valery Gergiev conducting a performance of the Dances on YouTube that I would recommend.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Double post.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

*Second Recording on YouTube*

I have found another recording of this work on YouTube. This is the version recorded by the USSR State Orchestra under Svetlanov mentioned above. There are some markedly different tempos between the two versions. Here are the links:

1. Adagio:




2. Prestissimo:




3. Andante:




4. Allegro molto vivo:


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## Fugue (Apr 26, 2011)

My familiarity with Borodin's music is very limited. Steppes of Central Asia and Polovtsian Dances is it.
Similarly with Russian music, I've only listened to the most obvious.
However, I've enjoyed this symphony, in particular the first movement. Some good woodwind and brass
passages. I like the third movement too which is beautiful in places. Is this really very Russian sounding?
I've been listening to this recording:


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Some of my general impressions of this symphony: 

-Well orchestrated, well structured
-enjoyed the 'movement' of the strings in the 2nd mvt. felt effective and possibly influential later to Sibelius? It reminded me of him
-The slow movement seemed effective without becoming too 'sappy' like many late romantic works
-Felt the ending was very effective and showed some great compositional skill
-Over-all an enjoyable symphony I may return to, I'll give it a 'first listen' tentative score of 7.5/10


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## Fugue (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes, I know what you mean about Sibelius.
Forgot to score mine, for me 7/10.


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

I thought it was a good symphony. I had never heard of Borodin but after hearing this I think I may explore more of his works. The first three movements were melodically good but not quite potent or exciting enough for me. After hearing the forth movement I realized the depth of this symphony. It was a great beginning to the listeners club.

6.5 out of 10


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Finally got around to listening to Borodin's 1st symphony:










This recording on BIS is as usual with that label, particularly fine. I had intended to listen to the version with Gerard Schwarz and the Seattle Orchestra... but there was a glitch with Spotify and it wouldn't play the first movement. After finding this version I almost tempted to buy it right away. Where other Russian composers have taken some time for me to warm up to, I find this hasn't been so with Borodin. I immediately fell in love with his opera _Prince Igor_ and picked up a copy.

Like others here I must admit that I have had only a passing experience of Borodin... and my grasp of Russian music is certainly not up to the level of my experience of other traditions. The Russian Romantics were actually my first great musical loves after the Baroque... but I eventually turned more toward the rigor and formal structure of the German/Austian school and the lyricism and poetry of the Italians and French. I've been listening more recently to a lot of Russian music and as I stated above, I found that Borodin resonated with me right from the start... which has not been true of others (Myaskovsky and Lyapunov come immediately to mind).

The opening adagio was quite gutsy while the andante was quite beautiful.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I suppose we can score more accurately, it helps us to score easier.
For example between 7.5 and 8: 7.6 or 7.8


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, I got it heard just in time! I too listened to Tjeknavorian. (I just know how to spell that. I didn't look. Honest.) 

This was my second time with this symphony. The second movement is as fun as a scherzo ought to be, a nice tight composition, and the third movement pleases me on an emotional level. I suspect that if I hear this symphony a dozen more times, I'll pick up on the motivic relationships, particularly in the first movement - something seems to be going on there, but I can't put my finger on it - and enjoy the work a bit more.

In the coming weeks I'll also listen to #2 again. I've been intending that for a long time.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

I finally got to listen, used the YT version.
I have to admit that I have had a very limited exposure to Borodin prior to this.
That's the best part of these selections, listening to music you haven't come across before.
Back to the music.
I especially liked the first movement, overall I will be searching out more
My score is 7
Great start to the "listening club"


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

I listened through!

I listened to the Svetlanov/USSRSO perform, but a Prague Orchestra for the 3rd movement.

This symphony was new to me! I love coming across new Russian works when I get the chance. I enjoyed it thoroughly as I enjoy most works of that country. It was about as typical as Russian Nationalism could get.

The First movement in particular had really warm, bright coloring. The Scherzo was glittery and exciting, something Borodin among the Five particularly excelled at. The use of woodwinds was, as usual, brilliant. The 3rd movement really struck me the most by how ingratiating it was. It was abounding with lyricism to a point my brain felt like it was going haywire, a sort of _excessive _emotive feeling like really strong perfume. But again, that's something I enjoy. The last movement was really great because upon hearing it I realized I had heard it before, probably on local radio. In contrast to the 1st movement, this one was more "militant" one could say, and more rough, and I loved the use of bell tones. I think Borodin used bell tones more explicitly than any of the other Five, except Mussorgsky. So, the symphony wasn't entirely unfamiliar to me. 

I'd definitely give it another hearing in the future to pick up more details, particularly the inner movements.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

I received two bargain copies of this symphony that I have been listening to yesterday and today. I have the following copies:















The Serebrier version is a live recording.

I haven't listened much to the other symphonies, so I can only speak for the first one. The Naxos recording has the edge over the other, IMO, though both are fine recordings that compare favourably with the recordings on YouTube.

As I mentioned before, I haven't listened to much Borodin at all. I am familiar with the Polovtsian Dances and In The Steppes of Central Asia, but not much else. The Russian influence is, not surprisingly, very strong and I agree with others who see some of Sibelius there. Words to sum up this symphony? Jovial, lively, energetic suit the mood of the first two movements, while the third is comtemplative and wistful (very Sibelian in this movement), and the last is playful and full of gusto.

Overall, I would rate this as a 7/10. The only reason I haven't rated it higher is that it took a while to click with me. I will enjoy delving into the second and the unfinished third symphony soon. 

Looking forward to the next listening club!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

crmoorhead said:


> both are fine recordings that compare favourably with the recordings on YouTube.


But how good is the music on youtube these days? I don't listen to it for ideological reasons, but I really wouldn't expect much....


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Believe it or not, I had added Borodin to my list of "composers-I-want-to-listen-to-all-of-their-available-music" club several months ago (with Nielsen, Elgar, Brahms & Schumann), so I bought number of Borodin CDs, but I had never gotten around to the symphonies. So, this project finally motivated me to listen to the copy I bought several months ago - the Schwarz/Seattle version on Naxos.

Let me say, to begin with, that this orchestra sounds much better in this recording than they did years ago on the Hanson symphonies set. I personally would not have been able to identify them as a second or third tier ensemble at all. Very impressive.

After my first listen, I must say I was probably in the minority as I liked the last three movements a lot more than the first one. I tend to hear symphonic music as either *someone expressing themselves in music *or *someone trying to make something musical happen*. The first time through, I thought the first movement fell firmly into the second classification, whereas the second and third movements seemed much more in the first classification. The last movement seemed a bit more manufactured again to me, but I have to confess I liked it more than the first because I could hear the Schumann influence and I like that idiom.

However, the second time through I wasn't so sure. At least I can say that I liked the oddly syncopated themes of the first movement a lot more the second time around. I also picked up more on the Berlioz-like style of the scherzo. This is probably my favorite movement of the four.

After my first listen, I would probably have rated it 6 out of 10. Second time, at least 7 out of 10 for me. It's growing on me for sure.


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## Clementine (Nov 18, 2011)

Finally listened to it enough to post about it. Like many here, my exposure to Borodin is limited to his _Polovstian Dances_, which I quite like, and his _Symphony #2_, which I felt suffered in structure from its programmatic nature (though perhaps I should relisten, its been a couple years).

That said, my expectations for this symphony weren't very high, and I was thrilled to be pleasantly surprised. Two things really grabbed my attention: the structure, and the orchestration.

I had just been getting familiar with Rachmaninov's _Piano Concerto #3_ at the same time, and upon listening to both pieces with the score, it didn't really strike me until now how much influence the Germans had on Russian music. While the French and Italians have their own extensive music history and traditions, the only 'Russian' aspect of Russian music is its use of folk tunes. They owe their structure and conception of music to the Germans. This Borodin symphony (formatted like a Schumann one), uses thematic material that all revolves around the same motifs, in this case a descending fourth. Each theme in each movement centers around that motion, and I believe the timpani outlines it every time. I also thought it was particularly cool how the introduction of the first movement essentially leads into another faster introduction, and it's this second introduction that really prepares the listener for the theme. With ostinato in the winds, the strings go up the scale, while the timpani does the descending fourth pattern; the two combine, and we get the theme. I think the scientist side of Borodin certainly shows; as has been mentioned, it does have an academic feel at times, but this doesn't hurt the musical material too much. Even the finale, which seems to be the most calculated, has a lovely 'lifting of the veil' moment.

As for the orchestration, I was expecting something more in the vein of Rimsky-Korsakov, or Tchaikovsky. Both of these composers are fantastic orchestrators, noted for their ability to double instruments in a way that creates lush, idiomatic, and balanced sounds. But Borodin seems to be more of a precursor to Mahler. I recall someone mentioning the active woodwind parts, but it really is much more then that. There are many instances of little chamber groups conversing within the larger picture. He'll write out passages between a flute, oboe, horn, and one violin section, have them scurry along, before sweeping in more instruments (like Tchaikovsky, he uses the entrance of more instruments to create effective crescendos). Another moment I noticed was in the slow movement, where the strings will play just the melody, while the clarinets provide the harmony. The symphony is full of creative and bizarre orchestrational decisions that I think really give the work character.

Overall a wonderful piece, on par with many other composers first works in the genre- Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Bizet etc. Thanks for recommendation Araskes!

Note: I have the State Symphony Orchestra Of Russia, conducted by Evgeny Svetlanov. The woodwind and brass sections are a little shaky, but the musicality and enthusiasm offered more then make up for this.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I've listened to this symphony once all the way through once, and enjoyed it. The second time I put it on I was quite distracted by my toddler, found myself impatient with the music, I just wasn't in right mindset. I hope to find some time tonight after he's in bed to sit down and listen to all of it in one go again.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

science said:


> But how good is the music on youtube these days? I don't listen to it for ideological reasons, but I really wouldn't expect much....


I made a comparison because that was what was available to everyone. Should we expect it to not be good? There are certainly many excellent recordings and videos there, legal and otherwise. Many orchestras and artists have official channels there. I don't think there are severe limitations on the sound quality that can be uploaded there and one of the versions of this symphony available there (Svetlanov) is certainly not a bad one. Not listening or viewing YouTube videos for ideological reasons is fair enough, but there is no logical reason to think that the recordings there are any more likely to be any more flawed than a disc purchase. I intend to buy at least one copy of the recommended recordings in the listening club, but I don't see why I can't supplement my listening with what might be available on YouTube. Of course, nearly all my recordings are second-hand, which does as much good for the record industry as outright piracy.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I really enjoyed the middle movements. The first is pleasant though not memorable. The closing movement hasn't pulled me in yet I am optimistic about future listens. I have listened on YouTube, but I am strongly considering making a purchase down the line.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

I quite liked this symphony, and I prefer it to his #2 (not heard #3 yet.) I loved the second movement, and enjoyed the 1st movement's jauntyness. Score: 8


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

I listened to the first movement on Tuesday, but just got around to the rest today.
I did not love the symphony—the second movement was probably my favourite. The first was okay, but it was a "nothing special" movement. The third was pleasant enough. I can't even remember what the fourth movement was like except that it ended fast.
I was not a huge fan of Borodin to begin with, so this was not disappointing. I thought that his orchestration was a bit Chopinesque (a nice way of saying not very good ), but the structure was interesting enough.

Carter's Rating: 6.5/10


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Will this thread remain open after we move on to the next piece?

I'd like to change the way I take part in this project. This time, I felt impelled to post after just two hearings because I didn't want to miss the deadline. I'd like to wait to post until after at least three listenings (with at least one of them being one where I can give it 100% attention). That may not always happen in the space of just one week.

I have no problem with moving on to a new piece next week. I just want to have the opportunity to let whatever piece I'm considering simmer a little bit before I commit my thoughts to screen.  If that means I "miss the party" a little bit, I'm okay with that.

I don't think I did this particular work justice. After all, there are many pieces today that are among my absolute favorites that took three or even more hearings to really register with me (Schumann's 2nd Symphony, Sibelius' Violin Concerto, etc).


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't see any reason to close this thread after this week.


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## Mika (Jul 24, 2009)

Listened youtube, this one from CD:










and this one from spotify:









Good stuff, especially 2nd movement


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

I have never listened to this symphony before and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I listened to the two versions available on YouTube. Thank you for doing all the hard work to make this thread happen. 

As an aside, I also see no reason to close the threads once the week is done. I expect that they will become inactive eventually, though.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Vesteralen said:


> Will this thread remain open after we move on to the next piece?
> 
> I'd like to change the way I take part in this project. This time, I felt impelled to post after just two hearings because I didn't want to miss the deadline. I'd like to wait to post until after at least three listenings (with at least one of them being one where I can give it 100% attention). That may not always happen in the space of just one week.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about that, the threads will remain open and should remain active after a week.  The start date for the start of the next listening club shouldn't mark the end of the previous one. If, for instance, someone had ordered a copy of one of the pieces and it took more than a week to deliver, or someone is on holiday and still wants to take part, then I would hope that they wouldn't feel left behind. When we get a piece that is substantially longer most people will probably require a bit more time to respond.The main reason for having one started every Monday is because a schedule is needed so that we actually progress through the list of nominated works at a steady pace. Even at one a week, we have six months worth of Listening Club if everyone on the list nominates.

I'll probably post links to the past Listening Clubs as a short list in post 2 in each new listening club thread. This post will also contain the information of the upcoming weeks' pieces.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Mika said:


>


I'd be interested in checking this one out. I'll have to get spotify!


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

This Thread is going to remain open, but I suppose we should change the title from *TC Listening Club Week 1: Symphony No. 1 in E Flat (Borodin)* to *TC Listening Club Week 2: String Quartet op.132 (Beethoven)*


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Arsakes said:


> This Thread is going to remain open, but I suppose we should change the title from *TC Listening Club Week 1: Symphony No. 1 in E Flat (Borodin)* to *TC Listening Club Week 2: String Quartet op.132 (Beethoven)*


I have been assuming that a new thread for the Beethoven will be started today. I think each weeks thread should remain distinct and separate.

Kevin


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