# Getting metal fans involved with classical music



## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

I've started asking metalheads if they like classical:

http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/6157-classical-music-metalheads.html
http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8486
http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,6358.msg35127.html
http://www.metal-realm.net/forum/showthread.php?p=524743
http://www.revolvermag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3773
http://www.metalhordes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=106123#post106123
http://www.heartofmetal.net/let-the-music-do-the-talking-f8/classical-music-t10100.htm#248470
http://www.metal-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=150135#150135
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20446492#post20446492

Also am asking forum leaders to create classical forums in their metal forums.

This may all seem stupid to you, but it was inspired by this:



Conservationist said:


> Classical music offers what everyone secretly wishes metal would: an unbroken cultural tradition untamed by the modern *****, untouchable by the mediocre tools who seem to thrive in our industrial cities.
> 
> Here's a few favorites:
> 
> ...


I think we should encourage metalheads and classicalheads (heh) to meet halfway.

One comment shows the difficulty of our task, however:



> It's hilarious checking out that forum and finding such a contrast - here we find metalheads who all have a huge respect for classical music, who are educated about it and have listened to it, and at that forum are people who are supposedly above everyone else because they're classical music purists, don't understand metal and berate and belittle everyone who has something to say about it. I love it.
> 
> http://www.returntothepit.com/view.php?formid=52154


Metalheads are used to people slagging their music, so the hostile responses here fit into a stereotype. They're counterproductive.

If we are open to people coming in and learning more, we may get another generation of fans from this genre.

Thoughts appreciated.


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

To make it crystal clear what I see as "hostile responses":



Herzeleide said:


> None, zero, zilch; don't go near it, it's terrible.





Bach said:


> Metal is the worst genre of pop music. Funk, hip-hop and reggae are the best.





Bach said:


> metalheads are ugly and gross. Those 'metal' girls make me want to hurl and the boys look like smelly unkempt yokels with tasteless, revolting piercing through every flap of skin. (and if they don't look like that that's only because they're too pussy or their mum won't let them - not through want of desire) They all look brain dead (which they must be) and they all deserve to be shot.





Bach said:


> Nobody of any worth is a metalhead.





Bach said:


> Or we could just ban anyone who expresses even the vaguest interest in becoming interested in becoming interested in metal. Or we could just stone them.. that's always a viable option.





sam richards said:


> It is the fact Conservationist and most of the ANUSites (yes, you included) pretend to know about classical music when it's obvious that doesn't have the knowledge to discuss Classical. This is not a Metal forum.





Mirror Image said:


> That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.





Bach said:


> But we still hate you and think your facile and pretentious breed of pop music is only fit to line a dust bin.





Bach said:


> They're all geeky satanists and their music sounds like sped up computerised noise with foul vocals and laughable subject matters.





Mirror Image said:


> Real musicians don't play metal, they play classical and jazz. Rock, metal, country, etc. are all styles of music that were created, in my opinion, because these "musicians" couldn't play classical or jazz and obviously showed no desire to do so, which in turn, means they don't understand the kind of commitment it takes to become a virtuoso on their instrument. But instrumentalists aside, there aren't any rewarding qualities about metal that interests me.





Mirror Image said:


> That was a hilarious post. Thanks for the laugh.





Mirror Image said:


> You won't be seeing me listening to metal either....ever. I don't listen to nonsense.





Bach said:


> Metal isn't musicians music. I simply don't know any musicians of considerable talent who value it as an art form...as if these drugged out D- students have any right to discuss anything academic..





Mirror Image said:


> Metal is nonsense. It's all rooted in something that doesn't serve any purpose. It's only purpose, it seems, is to make people bash beer bottles on their heads and run around in a mosh pit like some uncivilized tribal ritual. The only difference here is people get hurt for no reason.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Bombastic orchestral pieces often come to mind when classical is recommended for metalhead, but the string quartet genre has some headbanging material as well. For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.

Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:

Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement


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## Scott Good (Jun 8, 2009)

Cmaj7 said:


> For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.


It's a combination of acoustics and appropriate performing style.

The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.

A really good string section will try to play with exactly the same nuances, so not always velvety and smooth, but more dynamic like what can be achieved in a solo sound - but it has to be very precise to work. It is the mark of a great orchestra that has this kind of discipline, and quite rare.

But, this is the same with all instruments. Think of the individual singer and the choir - very different sound. Even with electric guitars - have you ever heard Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies?! Usually scored for 10 amplified electric guitars + drums and bass. Certainly worth a listen. The individuality is lost for a mass sound...ummm, not sure if I would describe it as velvety, though. Crazy weird but good, although best live.

Also, think of the Metallica sound - multi layed guitars to achieve that homogeneous fat sound - same principals. Even with the use of distortion and subtle chorusing (which mimic multiple players), a single player will never sound the same.



Cmaj7 said:


> Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:
> 
> Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
> Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement


Very solid choices! I love those pieces. Have you heard the Emerson SQ recording of the Bartok - my favorite.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Scott Good said:


> It's a combination of acoustics and appropriate performing style.
> 
> The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.
> 
> ...


It's funny, to me it would seem more logical that with free-pitch instruments like violin it would be more difficult to have smooth, pleasant sound with many instruments playing the same thing than with one instrument - you'd think that they could easily create some accidental microtonal dissonances. Being off-tune sound harsher harmonically than melodically, I think.

When it comes to classical, this works with human voice as well - many people find choirs pleasent but the typical "opera" vocals disturbing. Obviously this isn't inherent quality in human voice, solo singers in pop can sound very smooth, but in classical it seems practical considerations have affected the style as well - solo singers had to compensate the lack of amplification with that ridiculous loud vibrato style (or so I've heard).

About that "guitar symphony" thing, that bizarre idea actually popped into my mind quite a long ago but it was news to me that somebody had actually done it. Was it clean or distorted guitar sound?

I'm not sure what's my version of bartók quartets - I've ripped these from CDs I borrowed from library (which is legal in my country, strangely).


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

I concur with the second post tbh.


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## Mongoose (Jun 4, 2009)

Music can divide and separate (as a bra advert used to state!),but many 'classical' music fans can be so snobbish that its amazing they don't get their heads caved in. I've found that heavy metal fans are some of the most faithful and sincere folk I've met. I used to read a certain classical music forum and became so annoyed by the 'Old Boy' atitude that I moved on to this website. Classical music is'nt a private club.
I do enjoy heavy metal,and to those 'Satanists' I put my hands up and say Ava Satanas!
Mongoose.


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

Scott Good said:


> The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.


Similar to how heavy distortion and tremolo picking balances out the sound and you get a smooth hum that, if you play fast enough, is a kissing cousin to a synthesizer in sound.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Good one Conservationist, it gets me sick to see these elitist people who think thevye risen to the top of society through their music tast like Bach and Mirror Image. Nobody cares if youre now at oxford but you came from the ghetto.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Bach's bashing of metal and metalheads has gone so over the top that it's not funny anymore. Plus anybody who doesn't like Mahler must be more or less evil.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

For the record, I have absolutely NOTHING against metal music, rap music, pop music or any other type of music that is often berated by the "typical classical snob." I grew up listening to very eclectic stuff from the Sex Pistols to the Misfits to the Beastie Boys to Sublime. Anyone who tries to tell me this type of music is lesser than classical is missing the point. It's a different genre, no more no less.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical (Mar 15, 2008)

This is a very good idea. A marriage of the two genres with respect would be a great idea. Both metal and classical music are different yet have similarities, no one, however, can deny that the fans of both forms of music are similar as well. (Here is a hint: The long hair! lol) But in all seriousness, psychiatrists have found big similarities between the fans of both forms. Making both listen to each others music and understand may be a very good thing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ical-music-fans-share-personality-traits.html


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

emiellucifuge said:


> elitist people


The point, to my mind, of musical elitism is to find the best and paint the world with it. It's not about people/personalities. It's about the music.

All IMHO.

Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

"Somebody" mentioned the Misfits? That would be me.

Do I detect snobbery and elitism against the Misfits?


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

Tapkaara said:


> "Somebody" mentioned the Misfits? That would be me.
> 
> Do I detect snobbery and elitism against the Misfits?





Conservationist said:


> Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.


I don't think so. At least, I just listed them with the other hardcore favorites.


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## Scott Good (Jun 8, 2009)

Cmaj7 said:


> It's funny, to me it would seem more logical that with free-pitch instruments like violin it would be more difficult to have smooth, pleasant sound with many instruments playing the same thing than with one instrument - you'd think that they could easily create some accidental microtonal dissonances. Being off-tune sound harsher harmonically than melodically, I think.


Well, one would have to clearly define smooth! If it is a "feel", then, sure, one player can be smooth.

But if we are talking about a "smooth" unbroken, regular sound wave, it much easier to achieve with a large group.

Of course it is dependent on intonation! But, the more you add, the less precise the intonation needs to be. 2 violins it is essential to be in tune - 3, gets a bit easier, 4 is when there is a significant change - 8+ and you start getting that typical big lush tone.

It is hard to explain clearly in this kind of format and with my limited knowledge! The main idea is that the individual sound waves mix together to form one sound wave. The more you add, the richer the wave become - which is more complex, yet steadier. I think that I need to be clear that when I say smooth, I really mean static, or uniform - but thick.



Cmaj7 said:


> When it comes to classical, this works with human voice as well - many people find choirs pleasent but the typical "opera" vocals disturbing. Obviously this isn't inherent quality in human voice, solo singers in pop can sound very smooth, but in classical it seems practical considerations have affected the style as well - solo singers had to compensate the lack of amplification with that ridiculous loud vibrato style (or so I've heard).


Yes, that is part of the issue - vibrato helps projection.

I think calling it silly is a personal taste statement. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. But it is best when in a good concert hall - there is where it makes sense.



Cmaj7 said:


> About that "guitar symphony" thing, that bizarre idea actually popped into my mind quite a long ago but it was news to me that somebody had actually done it. Was it clean or distorted guitar sound?


Sometimes yes, sometimes, no.

Here is a part of one of his pieces that I heard live once (10 electric distorted detuned guitars, bass, drum set). It was quite the experience.

Listen very closely. What he composes for is the overtones (he is very studied in acoustics and sound properties). Through subtly shifting and incredibly dense harmonies, the upper stratosphere is dancing. It is only so good on recording (read: not even close!) - live, I swear I could hear voices - choirs, sometimes singing, sometimes yelling and screaming. No, not a hallucination (I was absolutely sober), just a sonic experience, or an acoustic phenomenon as I believe he calls it.

But man, when it resolves into triadic chords, it is magnificent.

(btw, if I am not mistaken, the guitars are tuned with 3 and 3 unison strings, at the octave, with subtle tuning inflections within each octave. So, 1 guitar is BBB high, and BBB lower octave, slightly out of tune - each guitar is tuned to a different partial of the overtone series of B I think - and each player is continuously strumming all of the strings, using a slide to change - all notated of course)






(I'm so sorry it just cuts off...I think this piece is about 20minutes)


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## mueske (Jan 14, 2009)

About Wagner:



> Since Transformers is out today, I'll do it. Wagner is kind of like the Michael Bay of classical. It's big, and it's easy for the great unwashed to get into, but there is way more sophisticated, far better classical music out there. That, and 99.9% repeating of 'fans' have pretty much only ever heard "Ride of the Valkyries" and beyond that couldn't name a single work of that man. Or, if seconds after they professed their love of Wagner you played them the Bridal Chorus and asked them if they liked that kind of classical music, they'd probably tell you that's lame, despite the fact that Wagner wrote it.
> 
> In short, Wagner is what most people reply when asked if they like classical, and they want to say yes to make it look like they do, without naming the obvious ones like Beethoven or Mozart, but in reality, they don't really like classical at all and wouldn't ever dream of putting it on their iPod.





> But you admire him for his writings? You mean those lumiary works such as Judaism in Music? Wonderful history teacher you had there, did he read aloud from Mein Kampf as well?
> 
> I really could care less about what his political views were then either...**** loads of people were racist in the 1800s. His music is just a bunch of boisterous staccato explosions. A few cool moments which pass as "stirring" if you're marching in a military parade I suppose, but IMO fall far short of the brilliance of other composers.
> 
> Oh, and I know more than two Wagner "songs". My point is, the vast majority of people who say they dig Wagner don't. They give that answer because they think it's the cool answer to give. If you asked them which they prefer, Parsifal or Tristan und Isolde, they'd look at you like you'd sneezed.


I wish Bach would register on that board and whoop that guy's ***!


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

The Michael Bay of classical? Oy vey...


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## Conservationist (Apr 5, 2007)

mueske said:


> I wish Bach would register on that board and whoop that guy's ***!


Maybe we all should.

Not suggesting a "board war" or something of that nature, but an informed group with a dissenting opinion coming in to cause problems.

IMHO, politics should always be separate from music. I'm not going to stop listening to Discharge just because they were a bunch of Reds or something.

(Although I can handle Discharge about once a year.)


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Metalheadwholovesclasical said:


> This is a very good idea. A marriage of the two genres with respect would be a great idea. Both metal and classical music are different yet have similarities, no one, however, can deny that the fans of both forms of music are similar as well. (Here is a hint: The long hair! lol) But in all seriousness, psychiatrists have found big similarities between the fans of both forms. Making both listen to each others music and understand may be a very good thing.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ical-music-fans-share-personality-traits.html


Looks like I missed this great poster. Oh well.


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## Ralphus (Nov 13, 2016)

I spent my life from university onward living with and working with classical musicians who LOVE and ADORE the music they learn and perform and listen to every day. From these people (you know who you are!) I've learned to love and need in my life: Frank Zappa, The Beatles, Steely Dan, Saint Etienne, Led Zeppelin, Miles Davis, Pink Floyd, Stevie Wonder, Thomas Dolby, Earth Wind & Fire, Cannonball Adderley, Dexter Gordon, Morphine and much more excellent music.

The question posed by the original post is an interesting one. A few years ago a friend of mine decided he wanted to get to appreciate classical music. He is now a freak for classical music. The piece that did it was Mahler 5. The usual approach that many take, with things like The Four Seasons, Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, or "Packabell" Canon, is misguided, in my opinion. Metal music (to my minimal knowledge) involves technical pyrotechnics and intense power of emotion. The most appropriate classical music may be like for like. Someone suggested a Bartok string quartet. Good idea. What about Messiaen Turangalila-Symphony, or Mosolov Iron Foundry, Prokofiev Cantata for the....October Revolution?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Although the idea seems very persistent among metalheads, there is no special connection between the genres of metal and classical music, not more or less so than between other genres and classical music. So this question is just as interesting as asking any fans of any other genre if they like classical music. Not very interesting.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Conservationist said:


> To make it crystal clear what I see as "hostile responses":


Those responses are typical of people that are ignorant of metal in all its forms.



> That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.





> That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.





> Real musicians don't play metal, they play classical and jazz. Rock, metal, country, etc. are all styles of music that were created, in my opinion, because these "musicians" couldn't play classical or jazz and obviously showed no desire to do so, which in turn, means they don't understand the kind of commitment it takes to become a virtuoso on their instrument. But instrumentalists aside, there aren't any rewarding qualities about metal that interests me.





> Metal isn't musicians music. I simply don't know any musicians of considerable talent who value it as an art form...as if these drugged out D- students have any right to discuss anything academic.


These comments specifically, are bothersome and provabley wrong.

There are so many metal bands in the subgenres of: prog-metal, technical-metal, metal-fusion with amazing levels of musicianship. Many of them are classically or jazz trained. And they are composing and performing music with very high levels of complexity.

But then, I once opened a thread here specifically aimed at dispelling misconceptions of metal (that it is all brutish, simple, has no real musicianship, appeals to lowest common denominator), and received almost nothing but disdain, even from fans of metal. I was accused of not really being a fan of metal, because the metal I listened to was so far removed from the 'standard' of the genre that it really doesn't resemble the genre.

http://www.talkclassical.com/30877-dispelling-sime-metal-misconceptions.html?highlight=

So, either people don't like metal because it is simple, has poor musicianship, is brutish, etc. But then, when metal bands play complex forms, that are sophisticated, with high level of musicianship, it is no longer metal.

The moral? You can't win against the closed minded.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Don't people think that metal at least is better than most rap music which the rappers use the N word,glorify violence,talk about da hood and such?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Metalkitsune said:


> Don't people think that metal at least is better than most rap music which the rappers use the N word,glorify violence,talk about da hood and such?


You mean all that uplifting metal about death and disease? Anthrax, Cannibal Corpse, Creeping Death, Reign Of Blood.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Lets get classical-music-enthusiasts involved with metal! Try your best to see what the positive sides to the music is  Make a list of 5 great things about metal!


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Plus much rap music seems very intrusive. Like a car going by in the neighborhood with the bass turned up so much that the windows of my house rattle,and i can hear the music from the car and it's like booty,booty,negro,hood,bling,bling.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

starthrower said:


> You mean all that uplifting metal about death and disease? Anthrax, Cannibal Corpse, Creeping Death, Reign Of Blood.


Not all metal is about that. There is power metal,which seems to be like dungeons and dragons/lord of the rings fans writing heavy metal.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Yes that is the late Christopher Lee singing a duet.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

starthrower said:


> You mean all that uplifting metal about death and disease? Anthrax, Cannibal Corpse, Creeping Death, Reign Of Blood.


How is todays rap music positive? most of it seems to be about I get money, hoes, cars and clothes. If you want to be a successful rap artist, portray yourself as a vicious gangster and sing about shooting enemies with a AK-47, slinging drugs, getting money, etc.

I heard there is even a rap song about what side to wear gang colors on.

Most rap is garbage and deserves to be in the trash.


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

starthrower said:


> You mean all that uplifting metal about death and disease? Anthrax, Cannibal Corpse, Creeping Death, Reign Of Blood.


Dude, there are various sub-genres and genres in metal.

Like one sub genre has bands that often sing about dragons,knights,elves,samurai,vikings,honour,kings and such.

A band even wrote a whole album based on J.R.R. Tolkien's works.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

Metalkitsune said:


> Dude, there are various sub-genres and genres in metal.
> 
> Like one sub genre has bands that often sing about dragons,knights,elves,samurai,vikings,honour,kings and such.
> 
> A band even wrote a whole album based on J.R.R. Tolkien's works.


God that is really horrible, like some Eurovision reject. Give me Mayhem or Decapitated


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

DeepR said:


> Although the idea seems very persistent among metalheads, there is no special connection between the genres of metal and classical music, not more or less so than between other genres and classical music. So this question is just as interesting as asking any fans of any other genre if they like classical music. Not very interesting.


I totally agree. I'm a huge fan of metal myself, and I've noticed there's this fixation among people to compare metal music to classical and draw parallels. There's a certain post-metal band I like that is very sophisticated in its songwriting, and critics like to compare them to classical even when the band themselves say their music is totally unrelated to classical.
Advanced compositional technique *≠* Classical Music .

This sounds pretentious and gatekeeping on my part, but honestly... a lot of those metalheads only seem to care about bombastic orchestral/symphonic music cause its sounds 'metal' and ignore everything else (*cough* Wagner *cough*). I don't want to make a gross generalization, but I think that has a grain of truth to it.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Beethoven and Stravinsky are SO metal!


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## Metalkitsune (Jul 11, 2011)

Bwv 1080 said:


> God that is really horrible, like some Eurovision reject. Give me Mayhem or Decapitated


This band also does fantasy






With the late and great Christopher Lee






Some song in Italian, sounds nice even though i don't understand what they are singing about.


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## Bwv 1080 (Dec 31, 2018)

its like, how could we make this music suck more? I know! add an orchestra :lol:


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Bwv 1080 said:


> its like, how could we make this music suck more? I know! add an orchestra :lol:


I've straight up never heard the metal + orchestra combination done tastefully. I've heard strings and winds tastefully implemented into metal, but a full orchestra/metal crossover always ends up being straight up pretentious garbage.

There's a genre called 'symphonic metal' but that is very misleading. It's actually cheesy power metal with pseudo-classical flourishes thrown in. They usually have these female singers with gorgeous operatic voices, but the music they're singing over is way too goofy for me to like it. (Examples: Nightwish, Beyond Temptation, Evanescence). A lot of people do like it and there's nothing _terribly _ wrong with it, but it's definitely not for me.


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## Andrew Kenneth (Feb 17, 2018)

This is the Wagner & Heavy Metal website.

Worth a visit.

https://www.wagner-heavymetal.com


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> I've straight up never heard the metal + orchestra combination done tastefully.
> I've heard strings and winds tastefully implemented into metal


It would be interesting to put some examples.
I think this is a good one:


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

I like this one! But it probably won't get a metal fan into classical...


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## Christine (Sep 29, 2020)

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> I totally agree. I'm a huge fan of metal myself, and I've noticed there's this fixation among people to compare metal music to classical and draw parallels. There's a certain post-metal band I like that is very sophisticated in its songwriting, and critics like to compare them to classical even when the band themselves say their music is totally unrelated to classical.
> Advanced compositional technique *≠* Classical Music .
> 
> This sounds pretentious and gatekeeping on my part, but honestly... a lot of those metalheads only seem to care about bombastic orchestral/symphonic music cause its sounds 'metal' and ignore everything else (*cough* Wagner *cough*). I don't want to make a gross generalization, but I think that has a grain of truth to it.


The comparison of metal to classical isn't always how the music sounds or how "thick" or "angry" it sounds. The premise is that the BRAIN that's drawn to metal is often drawn to classical -- even if what that particular metalhead likes sounds nothing like classical. I can easily conceive that in some cases, the brain that's wired to get fired up over metal will also get fired up over classical (but not the Bach/Brahms/Haydn/Mozart type of classical. This cannot be said with other genres. It even LOOKS silly when typed out, for example: "The mind that's drawn to country music or disco is also drawn to classical."

There are also smoother or more passive pieces of classical that can sound very inviting to a metal lover -- as long as those "calmer" portions have an ominous, foreboding, despairing or creepy quality.


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## Pickgrinder (Dec 9, 2020)

*Openeness with age*

I once saw a meme that read "Classical is Heavy Metal before electricity." The unknown author was dead on.

Maybe depending on our own personality and how and whom we are raised around dictates whether or not we are open to different genres of music.

I remember discovering metal music and was hooked. From then on I did not want anything in my cereal bowl or on my dinner plate, but nuts-bolts-chains. I was 15 yrs at the time. In my twenties, I discovered film scores which brought my attention to classical. Hearing the natural growl of the cello filled my soul. By then I recognized that heavy metal (esp death metal) is the continuum and evolution of classical.

Super cool to have found this old thread!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Pickgrinder said:


> By then I recognized that heavy metal (esp death metal) is the continuum and evolution of classical.


I think that's a bit too much as a statement, even because classical music still exists. It's just one of the many genres that sometimes has been influenced by some forms of classical music, like jazz, choro, pop, rock, progressive rock, electronic music.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

norman bates said:


> It would be interesting to put some examples.
> I think this is a good one:


That is fantastic! Thanks for sharing


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