# wagner and rossini's conversation. in 1860 (Link)



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

some of what wagner said:

"What would [Rossini] not have produced had he received a thorough musical training; above all, if, less Italian and less sceptic [sic.], he had felt in him the sacred nature of his art? … I must say this: of all the musicians I have met in Paris he is the only one who is truly great."

https://josmarlopes.wordpress.com/tag/wagner-and-rossini/


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Wagner was a right one, wasn't he? So much of what he said was abject nonsense, but then he also came out with such visionary remarks as this. With all his many faults, he understood what enabled a classic to endure the test of time. (How many people do you know who criticise his operas for being dated?) Whereas he understood that shallow crowd pleasers such as Meyerbeer and Massenet (not sure what Wagner said about him, if anything) had somewhat limited powers when it came to producing timeless masterpieces. Rossini too wrote mostly potboilers of one sort or another, but their seemingly facile facades cover a wide range of very good music. Wagner's greatness is so obvious, many can be blind to the easy appeal of Lohengrin and Tannhauser, not to mention large parts of the Ring, Meistersinger and Parsifal.

Was perhaps the reason the two saw eye to eye that both were so different and so could appreciate each others art without feeling threatened? Whatever the case, I love both of them and couldn't do without either of them (and I'm a fan of much of Rossini's serious work).

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A very enjoyable glimpse into these composers. It's too bad we don't have an actual transcript of the conversation. But what language did they speak? I'm not aware of Wagner knowing Italian. It seems more likely that the urbane Rossini knew some German.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> A very enjoyable glimpse into these composers. It's too bad we don't have an actual transcript of the conversation. But what language did they speak? I'm not aware of Wagner knowing Italian. It seems more likely that the urbane Rossini knew some German.


How was Wagner's French?

N.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

The Conte said:


> How was Wagner's French?
> 
> N.


In _Mein Leben_ Wagner wrote about his meeting with Berlioz. The latter couldn't speak German but Wagner knew some French, while Liszt is said to be fluent in French. Wagner described that "I had warmed up and felt confident, and was astonished at my sudden mastery of the French language." But then to Liszt he wrote: "The idea of Paris is beginning to look almost unattractive to me; I am frightened of Berlioz, and with my poor French I am lost." I guess he had some knowledge of French but definitely doesn't sound very comfortable about it. He lived in Italy for health reasons, though. So Wagner might have spoken some Italian as well. I think that the majority of _Parsifal_ was written in Italy.


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

annaw said:


> In _Mein Leben_ Wagner wrote about his meeting with Berlioz. The latter couldn't speak German but Wagner knew some French, while Liszt is said to be fluent in French. Wagner described that "I had warmed up and felt confident, and was astonished at my sudden mastery of the French language." But then to Liszt he wrote: "The idea of Paris is beginning to look almost unattractive to me; I am frightened of Berlioz, and with my poor French I am lost." I guess he had some knowledge of French but definitely doesn't sound very comfortable about it. He lived in Italy for health reasons, though. So Wagner might have spoken some Italian as well. I think that the majority of _Parsifal_ was written in Italy.


I would guess then they spoke in French. Rossini spoke French didn't he? He wrote operas in French and lived in France.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

It's quite possible that the conversation happened in translation...

N.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> A very enjoyable glimpse into these composers. It's too bad we don't have an actual transcript of the conversation. But what language did they speak? I'm not aware of Wagner knowing Italian. It seems more likely that the urbane Rossini knew some German.


French? The "Lingua Franca" of the times?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I too really enjoyed reading about the two opposites in music. Face it -- opposites attract.
Trust me. 65 years of wedded bliss. (well maybe 63 of the 65!)


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