# Appreciating Tragedy



## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Hello,

I know I will probably end up being criticized as a "softie," and I will end up agreeing with you. But nevertheless, I would like to get input on appreciating tragedy, as it seems to be quite common in opera. 

I understand one need not love the plot of an opera to enjoy the music, but it seems (especially when speaking of Wagner) that being able to appreciate an opera in its totality is the optimal situation. I took a classical mythology class last semester, and hated it. It seemed like you couldn't swing a centaur without encountering dishonesty, betrayal, extreme violence (often between family members), infidelity, rape, incest, and even cannibalism. "Heroes" weren't even very heroic, in my opinion, and even deified ones like Heracles exhibited some of the aforementioned hardly-admirable facets. 

Opera was originally quite stepped in classical mythology, and even some that aren't seem to draw similar "bummer" plots and lackluster "heroes." Is this a good thing? What is your perspective?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I find it hard to sympathize with most of the mythological figures that dominate operas from the baroque era, even though I like these operas for the music. The main reason is that I find many of these characters so one dimensional. They are either good or bad or heroic or cowardly (or whatever) with no inbetween. They are often cardboard figures full of cliches. Mozart was the one who saved us from all that in my view. His operas are populated with 'real' people one can feel for.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

There's a copse of thought in the original post... and before I comment, I should make sure I can identify the individual trees in this particular grove--

My first impression is that with the reference to "appreciating tragedy" and "bummer" plots- there's an unspoken question, which is "why is there *so much* tragedy in the operatic realm?" Maybe it's too throwaway to recycle the old chestnut about- "Q: why are there so many songs about heartbreak/unrequited love? A: because when love _is_ requited, people understandably focus more on things _other than_ writing music!" This quip, however, likely has SOME relevance here.

The other key point, Classical Mythology (and the challenges involved in its presentation in Art) is a very broad question. My initial take is that _because_ many mythological figures have at their core a two-dimensional "embodiment aspect" (e.g.: paragon of strength, paragon of war, paragon of erotic love, etc.) it is easier to maneuver these characters into tragic situations, as their very nature does not allow for alternate courses of action. The issue of whether or not this is a good thing is one I'll punt for now. Easy riposte is... it depends on the opera! Myth & Legend can make for some great opera, or some not especially well-received works (Sullivan's "The Golden Legend," anyone?).


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

You might also consider the character of the composer. On a shallow level, there have not been many genuinely happy composers, so most are naturally drawn to tragedy. Also, I would imagine that any artist would want to be "taken seriously". Comic operas are in danger of being too light and forgettable; thus, a composer of decent (not extraordinary) comic operas may not be "taken seriously". Tragic opera offers a kind of (weak) antidote for that.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

Thank you for your thoughts, and thank you for bearing with my unintelligible rambling... sorry for the copses!

The reasons for why so much tragedy exists in opera make sense; I agree with CTP and Buddha on that front. And like jhar26, I like that Mozart broke away from classical mythology with his famous operas. In fact, this brings me to what I was really trying to get across in my original post:

From my experience with Don Giovanni and the Magic Flute (regrettably my only forays into Mozart's opera so far), I would say that they *aren't* tragedies in the Greek sense. Giovanni got what was coming to him: never acted heroic, was never treated like a hero. And I enjoyed them! I'm having a tougher time with more tragic works, is my problem.

So I guess my question can be restated to: _How do you personally find enjoyment in sad stories, or do you not?_


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## JoeGreen (Nov 17, 2008)

nefigah said:


> So I guess my question can be restated to: _How do you personally find enjoyment in sad stories, or do you not?_


I would say not to enjoy them in the same sense that you would a comedy or such.
You can "enjoy" the emotional rollercoaster but just be sure to brace yourself for the impact at the end.

It's easier for me because I expect the ending.


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## Lang (Sep 30, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> There's a copse of thought in the original post... and before I comment, I should make sure I can identify the individual trees in this particular grove--
> 
> My first impression is that with the reference to "appreciating tragedy" and "bummer" plots- there's an unspoken question, which is "why is there *so much* tragedy in the operatic realm?" Maybe it's too throwaway to recycle the old chestnut about- "Q: why are there so many songs about heartbreak/unrequited love? A: because when love _is_ requited, people understandably focus more on things _other than_ writing music!" This quip, however, likely has SOME relevance here.


I would say it is because tragedy teaches us more about human nature than does contentment.


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

nefigah said:


> So I guess my question can be restated to: _How do you personally find enjoyment in sad stories, or do you not?_


Tragedies and comedies bring different types of enjoyment. Comedies make me feel warm and happy inside, while tragedies make me reflect on the delicacy of human nature. As is said in a play that skirts the tragic and comic, "I hold the world but as the world- a stage where every [opera] must play a part- and [tragedies] a sad one".

Bonus points for he who can name the play this quote is taken from!


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