# What do you know about Ferenc Erkel?



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I posted about König Stephan, a DVD I bought yesterday...and speaking about Ban Bank and Hunyadyi Laszlo I realized some people have never heard about this valauble composer...



























Some information about this composer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Erkel

:tiphat:

Martin


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

this is cool thanks man i'm glad i've now heard of this guy


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

I saw Bank Ban a few days ago, and I thought it was very good indeed. It was the filmed version from a few years ago with Eva Martón as Queen Gertrud.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

It is good you're bringing up Ferenc Erkel, he was a very significant Hungarian composer of the 19th century. Nobody rivalled him there in terms of opera, as far as I know. His son was also a composer, but I don't know his work (some of it available, I think, on the Marco Polo label).

I talked about Erkel on your other thread about him, HERE.

What I'd add is that he emerged in the mid c19th, just before the revolutions of 1848. His operas talk to the spirit of the age, eg. for some sort of liberty from the oppressors, who were of course the foreign Hapsburgs. This he had in common with Smetana up in Bohemia (present day Czech Republic) & of course Verdi in what is now Italy.

A number of his operas were banned by the Austrians after the reactionary crackdown following 1848. But towards the end of the century, these draconian laws were lifted, and Erkel's operas were allowed to be performed in the newly built opera house in Budapest.

He was also an innovator in his own right, incorporating elements drawn from Hungarian folk music - more the vibe or feel of the music, not based on in-depth study that came later with Kodaly and Bartok - and also doing things like using leitmotifs way before Wagner, as I said in my other post.

I will dig out those operas I have by him for a listen sometime soon, you have reminded me which is good.

As I said before, Hungaroton and other great labels like Japanese Denon, have stopped distributing in Australia, which is a great shame. They had excellent and significant repertoire from their native composers on their catalogues. Others like Czech Supraphon are still left, but for how long, who knows? It's all about the homogenisation of the classical music recording industry, but this is another issue...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I posted about König Stephan, a DVD I bought yesterday...and speaking about Ban Bank and Hunyadyi Laszlo I realized some people have never heard about this valauble composer...


Thanks, Martin! Look forward to reading your experienced opera opinion on this composer! I will get _Bank Ban_.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Thanks, Martin! Look forward to reading your experienced opera opinion on this composer! I will get _Bank Ban_.


An excellent idea. I guess he's considered a romantic. He's music is very generous and melodic. He was a reference indeed for future Hungarian composers and who knows maybe some other Western composers. Indeed he introuduced the leitmotiv.

Sincerely,

Martin


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I've heard some excerpts from Erkel's opera on the radio , but have not had the chance to 
hear any of the complete recordings on Hungaroton, but would very much like to.
Erkel's operas are an example of operas which just never caught on outside the composer's native countries, I suppose because the librettos are in Hungarian , a language which few people outside of Hungary have any familiarity with. But I suppose they might have gained a more prominent place in the operatic repertoire in translation, such as 
some of the Czech operas, which are now often performed in the original language.
You'd be surprised how many operas in obscure languages such as Swedish,Danish,Finnish, Estonian, Romanian, Armenian,Georgian, Turkish(including ones in the Turkish dialect spoken in Azerbaijan), etc have been written .


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

superhorn said:


> I've heard some excerpts from Erkel's opera on the radio , but have not had the chance to
> hear any of the complete recordings on Hungaroton, but would very much like to.
> Erkel's operas are an example of operas which just never caught on outside the composer's native countries, I suppose because the librettos are in Hungarian , a language which few people outside of Hungary have any familiarity with. But I suppose they might have gained a more prominent place in the operatic repertoire in translation, such as
> some of the Czech operas, which are now often performed in the original language.
> You'd be surprised how many operas in obscure languages such as Swedish,Danish,Finnish, Estonian, Romanian, Armenian,Georgian, Turkish(including ones in the Turkish dialect spoken in Azerbaijan), etc have been written .


I know...Nonetheless, I have the DVDs subtitled in English...and I think I can read English quite well...LOL

Köszönöm (pronounce Kessenem) - it means Thank you in Hungarian

Martin


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

It's good that you have reminded me and a number of others too, and also introduced, this significant composer here.

I do plan to listen to those two operas by him I've got on disc. However I'm not exactly in that vibe now. Both of them end with multiple deaths, as far as I can remember. Overall they are very dark, reflecting issues I raised earlier with regards to the history of foreign oppression that Erkel was reflecting on. They are not easy to take, that's for sure, but they are at least what I call "real" or at least real or relevant to me, as are all operas which I like are in some way.

Another thing is that in Erkel's operas, the more Hungarian sounding tunes or leitmotifs are associated with the Hungarian (eg. positive) characters in the story, whereas more international sounding themes (eg. taken from Italian opera esp.) are linked to and accompany the singing of the baddies (eg. the foreign oppressors). This was a technique he used to protest against the foreigners. Not only the subject matter of his operas but what he was doing technically in them, like this, went against the grain of Hapsburg absolutism. So no wonder it was at the end of his long life that they became allowed to be performed, in the late 19th century. I suppose part of the reason was relaxation of the oppression somewhat but also that they built the Budapest opera house, so they needed something "native" to be on the bill, not just imported fare.

Anyway, I remember that a while back that aria sung by Domingo that you posted was aired on radio here. The announcer obviously didn't have a clue regarding ERkel, she said he was basically Verdi rehash. I mean they are usually better researched than this, this is abysmal, I remember it because while she said it I was thinking "WTF?" Anyway, just another example of how if something doesn't fit into a neat box, we squeeze it in anyway. Superficial analysis to say the least...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

superhorn said:


> I've heard some excerpts from Erkel's opera on the radio , but have not had the chance to
> hear any of the complete recordings on Hungaroton, but would very much like to.
> Erkel's operas are an example of operas which just never caught on outside the composer's native countries, I suppose because the librettos are in Hungarian , a language which few people outside of Hungary have any familiarity with. But I suppose they might have gained a more prominent place in the operatic repertoire in translation, such as
> some of the Czech operas, which are now often performed in the original language.
> You'd be surprised how many operas in obscure languages such as Swedish,Danish,Finnish, Estonian, Romanian, Armenian,Georgian, Turkish(including ones in the Turkish dialect spoken in Azerbaijan), etc have been written .


That's an interesting note, as yours often are. These "other language" operas must also have nuances on the music that would make interesting listening.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

superhorn said:


> ...
> You'd be surprised how many operas in obscure languages such as Swedish,Danish,Finnish, Estonian, Romanian, Armenian,Georgian, Turkish(including ones in the Turkish dialect spoken in Azerbaijan), etc have been written .


Yes, there is a wealth out there, and I was exposed to a fair deal through my parents. Opera doesn't end with the big players or more popular languages but of course I'm a total ignoramus because I don't worship Wagner, so whatever...


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

I thought that he's black, he wears huge glasses, suspenders, and high waisted pants ...


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

Have a Marco Polo by him. Some brilliant piano pieces, one for viola and piano and a duo for violin collaboration with Vieuxtemps. Fine romantic Hungarian music.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Odnoposoff said:


> Have a Marco Polo by him. Some brilliant piano pieces, one for viola and piano and a duo for violin collaboration with Vieuxtemps. Fine romantic Hungarian music.


I have the same CD...But he's essentially an opera composer. If opera is not your cup of tea, maybe this is not a composer for you.

My little list is:

ERKEL FERENC BANK BAN JANOS FERENCSIK OPERA DISQUE VINYLITE 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC BANK BAN MARTON, ROOST (KISS) 2003 OPERA DVD 13/05/2006 
ERKEL FERENC BANK BAN extraits JANOS FERENCSIK OPERA DISQUE VINYLITE 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC BANK BAN extraits - OPERA CASSETTE VIDEO VHS MAISON 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC BANK BAN extraits -- OPERA CASSETTE VIDEO VHS MAISON 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC BRANKOVICS GYORGY KOLOZSVAR 1993 - MARTON, MOLNAR, SZAKACS OPERA DVD 28/08/2006 
ERKEL FERENC HUNYADI LASZLO DIR VILMOS KOMOR OPERA DISQUE VINYLITE 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC HUNYADI LASZLO EGRESSY, MOLNAR (KERTESSI) 2002 OPERA DVD 13/05/2006 
ERKEL FERENC HUNYADI LASZLO - EXTRAITS (1ERE SCENE 1ER ACTE) OPERA DE BUDAPEST OPERA CASSETTE VIDEO VHS MAISON 28/03/1997 
ERKEL FERENC ALBUMLEAVES SZECSODI, VIOLIN; LUKACS, VIOLA; KASSAI, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC DUO BRILLANT IN THE FORM OF FANTASY ON HUNGARIAN AIRS FOR VIOLIN AND PIANOI NTRODUCTION AND PETER LUKACS, PIANO - ISTVAN KASSAI, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC INTRODUCTION AND CAPRICCIO (ERINNERUNG AN W. ERNST) SZECSODI, VIOLIN; LUKACS, VIOLA; KASSAI, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC INTRODUCTION AND VERBUNKOS FOR VIOLA AND PIANO PETER LUKACS, PIANO - ISTVAN KASSAI, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC ORIGINAL UNGARISCHER SZECSODI, VIOLIN; LUKACS, VIOLA; KASSAI, PIANO SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC ORIGINAL UNGARISCHER - SYMPH DISQUE COMPACT 01/09/2005 
ERKEL FERENC SOUVENIR FOR FERENC LISZT: RAKOCZY MARCH -

It is difficult to get more CDs

Martin


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## larifari (Sep 5, 2011)

It is too bad, regrettable and sad that some great musical talent is wasted, ignored and disrespected by ignoramuses who have no conception or understanding that there are languages spoken in the world other than English, and opera sung in languages other than Italian, French or German. 

If they just want to stop there, not even willing or wanting to know anything else, it is their loss. With Google and youtube there is no longer any excuse for musical ignorance.

By the way, Ferenc Erkel also composed the music for the Hungarian National Anthem, which is heard more often at all Olympic Games, per capita, than the national anthem of any other country, with the possible exception of Cuba.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

larifari said:


> It is too bad, regrettable and sad that some great musical talent is wasted, ignored and disrespected by ignoramuses who have no conception or understanding that there are languages spoken in the world other than English, and opera sung in languages other than Italian, French or German.
> 
> If they just want to stop there, not even willing or wanting to know anything else, it is their loss. With Google and youtube there is no longer any excuse for musical ignorance.
> 
> By the way, Ferenc Erkel also composed the music for the Hungarian National Anthem, which is heard more often at all Olympic Games, per capita, than the national anthem of any other country, with the possible exception of Cuba.


Well...I am a Russian opera fan...and I cannot listen to it in another language than Russian. I speak a bit Russian...and can write and read in Russian like in English, French or Spanish ...My mother tongue*s* LOL


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## larifari (Sep 5, 2011)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> Well...I am a Russian opera fan...and I cannot listen to it in another language than Russian. I speak a bit Russian...and can write and read in Russian like in English, French or Spanish ...My mother tongue*s* LOL


I learned to love opera because the people who presented opera in my country of birth realized that those who love MUSIC, the language that happens to accompany the music is a poor second, and translated the words from whatever into Hungarian, so even people without university education could appreciate the MUSIC and understand the words.

So, I could understand and love opera as a ten-year-old kid.

I still love opera, - you know, MUSIC - and I can't recall the last time I ever looked at the surtitles displayed. I know that Glinka, Mozart, Verdi, Mussorgski, Bizet, etc. never wrote the words in any language, they wrote the MUSIC I enjoy.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Yes, the opera that appeals to me, it doesn't matter what language it's in (well, virtually). The only ones I can't get into readily are the ones that are heavily text-based, eg. R. Strauss, esp. things like his Capriccio, and also in art-song, eg. Hugo Wolf. Otherwise, I can get into things, even some things by Wagner occassionally, but not usually. So I agree, vocal music can connect with the listener on levels beyond language. But with guys like Erkel, as in my earlier posts I noted, the history surrounding his music is pivotal in understanding it, in a way, more important to those who don't speak his language than just the words...


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I like him much better than Bartók who gets all the hype. Actually, he's to Hungary what Verdi is to Italy. 

Really beautiful operas, a shame they don't get performed outside our country. Although it's all rooted in Hungarian history, but mainly it's typical operatic conflicts, intrigue, betrayal and stabbing around.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Sieglinde said:


> I like him much better than Bartók who gets all the hype. Actually, he's to Hungary what Verdi is to Italy.
> 
> Really beautiful operas, a shame they don't get performed outside our country. Although it's all rooted in Hungarian history, but mainly it's typical operatic conflicts, intrigue, betrayal and stabbing around.


I agree with you plenty...not I don't like Bartók....I like his music deeply...but it is unfair his music (Erkel) is not better known in the West...He's the Hungarian Verdi INDEED! I don't consider language as a barrier....Nowadays they have subtitles in ever theatre...and in every DVD...I.M.H.O. Hungarian is not a beautiful language...but who cares...You have beautiful operas in Finnish (e.g. Rautavaara, Sallinen)...and the language has the same roots than Hungarian...a very difficult language and not very romantic...or Tchech (Janacek, Dvorak, Smetana)

Martin


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## santunez (Dec 19, 2011)

Also, for some of his youtube videos and recordings: http://musistica.com/artists/composers/e/erkel_ferenc/erkel_ferenc.html


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

santunez said:


> Also, for some of his youtube videos and recordings: http://musistica.com/artists/composers/e/erkel_ferenc/erkel_ferenc.html


Nice site...but you can't find more than you can on youtube...Can you? Anyhow, I have the DVDs of three of his operas and all the CDs I could get until now. When I was looking for Maria Batori on Internet, I found a weird place where you can download it for free...accepting maybe some malign viruses...Not for me, thanks.

Martin


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## larifari (Sep 5, 2011)

larifari said:


> It is too bad, regrettable and sad that some great musical talent is wasted, ignored and disrespected by ignoramuses who have no conception or understanding that there are languages spoken in the world other than English, and opera sung in languages other than Italian, French or German.
> 
> If they just want to stop there, not even willing or wanting to know anything else, it is their loss. With Google and youtube there is no longer any excuse for musical ignorance.
> 
> By the way, Ferenc Erkel also composed the music for the Hungarian National Anthem, which is heard more often at all Olympic Games, per capita, than the national anthem of any other country, with the possible exception of Cuba.


Here is the Hungarian National Anthem I wrote about in my post, quoted, above:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61hw3_magyar-himnusz-hungarian-national-a_music


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

larifari said:


> Here is the Hungarian National Anthem I wrote about in my post, quoted, above:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61hw3_magyar-himnusz-hungarian-national-a_music


Just breathtaking! Thank you and Happy Holidays!

Martin


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

yesterday I saw Bánk bán for the 1st time. there were many foreigners in the audience.

behind me there were english speaking people. I asked a woman, and they told me that they're from New York, and bought tickets because Erkel is very famous. i told them it's interesting that there's a death at the end of the 2nd act, and they told me that she (the queen) deserved it. this conversation took place after the 2nd act (in the end of the 2nd act Bánk bán kills the queen). they asked me if there is a 3rd act. they were well prepeared compared to the people sitting two rows ahead of me, they left their seats before the 3rd act!!!

Alexandru Agache played Tiborc (on the left on the 1st picture), he was the crowd's favourite.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

today's performance was the best i saw. Kolonits -in white on the 2nd and 3rd, but also appears on the 1st- was better (and louder) Melinda than Kertesi. Agache -on the left on the 2nd picture- was awesome again.





















it's a pity that i saw it for the 3rd time with Bánfi in the title role, the other Bánk, Atilla Kiss B. got a major award (Kossuth Prize) on the 15th of March. i'll see him on Jenufa on Saturday.


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