# Amadeus the movie



## LiLi

This is probably my favorite movie ever. I KNOW its historically inaccurate. I KNOW its three hours long. but I love it. Anyone else??
I've always wondered what real Mozart enthusiasts think about Tom Hulce's portrayal of Mozart in this movie. Personally, I think he does a great job. Before I saw this movie, I had played a few of Mozart's pieces and just grouped him in with all the other composers. Yea Yea, Mozart. He's German. Just like half the other composers. Big deal. hehe. But Hulce's character actually got me really interested in Mozart and his music. I didn't know he was so WEIRD! I love it. It gave me a new way to look at his music and his life. If you havent seen it go out right now and get it. 
Anyone else have any thoughts?


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## Music_Junkie

It's an awesome movie! I really love it! I especially love the big hair and laugh of Mozart. I think the way the movie is done and how Mozart's music is used to accent things is very skillfully done. Bravo! great film!


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## Cameron_Nelson

*loved it*

this movie was quite fun. the best part is when he is composing the confutatis part of his requiem on his deathbed, with him singing the melody with the music in the background.


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## val

Sorry, friends, but I hate that movie. In general, movies about composers, in special those who came from Hollywood are incredibly bad. Beethoven with Oldman ... brrr...
Since its beginning Hollywood has always promoted a war against History. See "The Gladiator" and that stupid "Alexander".

Want to see a good movie about a composer? Then go see "Touts les matins du monde".


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## CML

When Amadeus first came out, I saw it twice before it left the theatres. It's a brilliant movie. I do, however, feel that Mozart might be overrated in part because of it.
Don't get me wrong, he was most certainly a genius, but it seems to me that the hoopla
over him is a bit too much. Overall, I think J.S. Bach was a much better composer. 
My primary concern with any composer is his music, not his idiosyncrasies.


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## Gatton

A fun movie. Make sure you get the director's cut as it makes the ending scene (where Constanze is very cold with Salieri) make more sense. And as a follow on from that Elizabeth Berridge presents two very big reasons to get the director's cut


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## Shane

val said:


> Sorry, friends, but I hate that movie. In general, movies about composers, in special those who came from Hollywood are incredibly bad. Beethoven with Oldman ... brrr...
> Since its beginning Hollywood has always promoted a war against History. See "The Gladiator" and that stupid "Alexander".
> 
> Want to see a good movie about a composer? Then go see "Touts les matins du monde".


I agree with you on Amadeus. I'm not much of a Mozart fan though either (aside from the Requiem, and Haydn Quartets).
But I thought the Beethoven movie was decent for the most part (I am a Gary Oldman fan as well). Although the opening scene is just cheesy. With the close-up and the beginning of the 5th symphony. I wish they would have just left the 5th out of that movie all together. It has already been ruined by Hollywood. Plus, from a chronological perspective, I thought it made no sense to place the 5th symphony at the beginning of the film.


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## Topaz

The only films I like about music are ones with Pink Floyd in them, performing live. Ones about Beethoven or Mozart, or whoever, I wouldn't even bother glancing at. That kind of stuff doesn't interest me one bit. I'd sooner watch paint dry. They are bound to get it all wrong and project the wrong image about these people. 

I've always had difficulty watching any movies about historical characters, ever since I saw Moses played by Charlton Heston. What a joke, that was. Then there was Cleoptara played by Liz Taylor. Zzzzzzz. 

They can't even get the story right about fictional characters. I watched Gone With The Wind last Xmas, and what a complete travesty it was of a wonderful novel. I do like some films but there aren't many: Shawshank Redemption, Schindlers List, Bridge on the River Kwai, Great Escape are real classics. I guess there might be a few more but I can't remember them. Generally, I prefer British films than Hollywood blockbusters. Comedy films are OK like Pink Panther and the Ealing Comedies, and one or two War films. 

So, yep they don't get much more cynical than me in the movie department, especially in regard to biopics about people I hold in high regard like Beethoven. Does this latest movie really start of with the opening bars of S 5? How stupid. I would switch it off straight away. 


Topaz


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## Hexameron

Topaz, these movies are actually quite good compared to the drivel in most theatres now. _Amadeus_ is a classic and _Immortal Beloved_ is well done, although quite innacurate and at times ridiculous (the director's theory of the immortal beloved is the worst possible one). I've heard many good things about the newly released _Copying Beethoven_ and I'm waiting for it to appear in theatres. Movies like _Impromptu_ and _Chopin: Desire for Love_ have their moments, and the _Wagner_ mini-series with Richard Burton was exceptionally well done.

Compared to the inane garbage we have in America today like Beer Fest, Spider Man, Borat, and Eragon, I'll happily take movies like Amadeus and Immortal Beloved anyday.


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## robert newman

I quite like '_Amadeus_'. It's exotic, racy, escapist and harmless. The actor who played Salieri was phenomenal. Great script (mostly). But another film which was just as good (a French one on the life and career of JS Bach, _'Il Etait une Fois' _never even got to general release in the USA. I suppose it lacked something but it sure wasn't great music and at times deeply moving photography. It was as good as Amadeus in its own way.


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## cmb

Has anyone seen the 9-hour miniseries with Richard Burton as Wagner?

Worth it in the full version - there is a cut 4 hour version.
I also like Amadeus and Immortal Beloved - again, I know they are wrong, but if I'm goingto watch trash, I would rather watch that over, oh, any National Lampoon type film.


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## Mark Harwood

Bad films made from good books are beyond counting. They must put some people off reading the book. Perhaps there are bad films about good music, having a similar effect on a few people. I'd be surprised if a lively and entertaining film such as Amadeus didn't turn some people on to Mozart, or other classical music.


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## Mr Salek

I love films about composers, it's partly the reason I got so excited about Discovering Beethoven and the Vivaldi movie mentioned on these forums. Moments I like especially are when other composers wonder onto the scene and we get to see them interact with other composers. I don't really care if it's innacurate, it serves as a good film about the life of a composer. I hope more films are made using this concept.


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## opus67

OMG!

I just saw a couple of clips from this film on YouTube and was shocked! I can't believe that this bumbling buffoon of a character, at least as per the people who made the movie, could have written such works as the 40th symphony or the Requiem. I don't know the exact age of Mozart in that scene, but it was the one where he creates variations on a March written by Salieri, in the presence of the Austrian Emperor and others. Although I'm no expert on the life of Mozart or classical music, the way Mozart was portrayed (in that scene and the trailer) looked more like a parody. 

I've heard that Salieri murdering Mozart is widely debunked, but what about the childishness of (adult) Mozart? Does history support that?


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## Giovannimusica

Navneeth,


I sometimes wonder how seriously one can take interpretations of Mozart's life, especially if it isn't backed up with critical research and scholarship. Methinks I can entertain the notion of Mozart from time to time engaging in a little *Frat Boy* temperament, poking fun at the established order, embarassing the ladies with ribald humour, some carousing and debauchery, all those *those* things which sometimes the male species of the human race is capable of. Some call it *letting off steam*.


Regards!


Giovanni


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## Lisztfreak

Seeing the Amadeus movie changed my listening experience of Mozart's Requiem for ever. I can't listen to it without seeing the scenes from the film in my mind's eye again! 

I know it's got almost nothing to do with historical facts, but it's a very good work.

Anyone acquainted with Salieri's music? I always wondered if he wrote any good stuff - perhaps it was unjust to forget his music.


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## mahlerfan

We watched the first half of the movie in band class (the bell rang before it was over). From what I have seen of it, it is a good film, and the actors do a great job of portraying the characters, particularly Mozart and Salieri.


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## Gatton

opus67 said:


> I've heard that Salieri murdering Mozart is widely debunked, but what about the childishness of (adult) Mozart? Does history support that?


There's no evidence at all that Salieri was responsible in any way for Mozart's death. Salieri confessed to killing him but he was quite mad late in his life (as in the asylum scenes in the movie.)

As for whether Mozart really was a buffoon who knows. But there has to be a reason that his complete letters weren't published for a couple of hundred years no? I seem to recall yet another anthology of Mozart's letters was published recently and supposedly it contains some of his more scatalogical missives. It's well known that Mozart's family were simply fascinated with bodily functions. Also I've heard that he was very fond of playing word games with his sister Nanerl. The scene in the movie where "Wolfie" talks backwards is an example of this.

Lisztfreak, I have heard a few things of Salieri's. He was best known for his operas I believe but I've never heard them. I don't even know if they are still performed. But I have a couple of cds of his instrumental music. One contains two piano concerti and the other is some works for woodwinds. I haven't listened to them very much because to be frank, like the output of many of Mozart's contemporaries, it's pleasant but forgettable.


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## Lisztfreak

Was he really insane in his old age? How could he have been, if composers like Meyerbeer and Liszt were pupils of his? 

Liszt was 16 when Salieri died, so Salieri couldn't have been unable to teach and talk reasonably in his final years!


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## opus67

Well, I finally saw the movie. Can't say I really liked it. I guess that's because of all the controversy surrounding the movie firmly rooted in my head. Don't take me wrong, but the American accent was somewhat a deterrent, too. Big sets, costumes and lots of white hair, and Murray Abraham was great as the old Salieri (can't seem to get that grin of his out of my head)! Great make up, too, I must add. Also, loved the scene where Constanze brings the scores to Salieri to get Mozart the job at the palace.


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## ChamberNut

opus67 said:


> Well, I finally saw the movie. Can't say I really liked it. I guess that's because of all the controversy surrounding the movie firmly rooted in my head. Don't take me wrong, but the American accent was somewhat a deterrent, too. Big sets, costumes and lots of white hair, and Murray Abraham was great as the old Salieri (can't seem to get that grin of his out of my head)! Great make up, too, I must add. *Also, loved the scene where Constanze brings the scores to Salieri to get Mozart the job at the palace*.


I loved that scene also. I thoroughly enjoyed the entire movie, inspite of the historical inaccuracies et al. The music was absolutely marvelous. I love the Commandatore Scene of Don Giovanni, and when Mozart is ill in bed and having Salieri write down the score of the Requiem.


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## Morigan

I saw this movie for the first time when I was about 12, and back then I didn't give it too much thought (nor did I care for music at all). I went back to watch it one or two years ago, and I absolutely love it (let's save the blah blah about historical innacuracy and accents for later). The musical choice is wonderful, the costumes and sets are vivid and incredible, and most of the actors are excellent (the actor who played Joseph II looked EXACTLY like the actual emperor).

I guess what I like so much about this movie is that it changed my perception of Mozart from an overrated bourgeois icon to a genius composer. I started by acquiring the works that are featured in the movie; the more i digged, the more I found awesome music (though not always original, but eh). 

This film has greatly contributed to the revival of Mozart's notoriety in the 80s, and even today. Despite its age, this film always looks refreshing and modern. The only "giveaway" clue that it was made in the 80s is when they take off their wigs and you can see their awful hairdos! .


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## opus67

Morigan said:


> Ithe actor who played Joseph II looked EXACTLY like the actual emperor.


That's true. I was surprised when I checked Wikipedia after watching the movie. I think it also holds true for Constanze, although not to the same degree.


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## Handel

Was a good dramatic story. Of course it was not historically accurate (I remember the scene when Leopold visited Wolfgang. That was in 1785 and in real lige, Wolfgang's career was rather successful at that time. But the movie rather depicts the last year of Mozart, when he had financial problems.)

Btw, I can remember it, but is there any presence of Haydn in the movie. I'm just curious.


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## opus67

Handel said:


> Btw, I can remember it, but is there any presence of Haydn in the movie. I'm just curious.


Nope. None at all.


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## ChamberNut

Handel said:


> Was a good dramatic story. Of course it was not historically accurate (I remember the scene when Leopold visited Wolfgang. That was in 1785 and in real lige, Wolfgang's career was rather successful at that time. But the movie rather depicts the last year of Mozart, when he had financial problems.)
> 
> Btw, I can remember it, but is there any presence of Haydn in the movie. I'm just curious.


No, there is no presence of Haydn in the movie, that I can recall. There is an exchange between a young man and Mozart (which may make one think it was young Ludwig Van Beethoven, but it may not be).

And I remember when someone asks Mozart to play some Gluck, he responds by saying "Ahhhh......boring!!!!"


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## opus67

ChamberNut said:


> There is an exchange between a young man and Mozart (which may make one think it was young Ludwig Van Beethoven, but it may not be).


When is this scene?

I wonder how the face of music would have been if Mozart and Beethoven had had a conversation, even for an hour.


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## ChamberNut

opus67 said:


> When is this scene?
> 
> I wonder how the face of music would have been if Mozart and Beethoven had had a conversation, even for an hour.


I think they may have had a brief exchange in a salon, where young LVB was playing on the piano, and Mozart was present. I'm not sure if this is a widespread rumor or historical fact.

I'll go back and check opus67.....I can't remember which part of the movie it is in, but it is very brief and can be easily overlooked.


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## opus67

My bad; it seems that Beethoven and Mozart have indeed met, albeit for a short time.

http://www.madaboutbeethoven.com/pages/people_and_places/people_patrons/people_patrons_mozart.htm



> http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/beethovenchildhood1.html
> 
> *Vienna for the First Time. Studying with Mozart*
> 
> However, young Beethoven was no longer satisfied with what Bonn's artistic life had to offer. Already an ardent Mozart fan, Beethoven decides to go to Vienna in 1787,, in order to study with Mozart. There is little information on Beethoven's first trip to Vienna. The date of his departure, as well as the length of his stay there, are virtually unknown. However, it is known that in 1787 Mozart found time to listen to him although at that time he was completely absorbed by the composition of Don Juan. The young composer brilliantly improvised on a theme suggested by Mozart, astonishing his entire audience. After having listened to him, Mozart said: " watch out for that boy. One day he will give the world something to talk about". Beethoven started taking lessons with Mozart.


Edit: The last line in the second source seems to contradict the first one.


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## Morigan

I have never heard of Beethoven taking lessons with Mozart? I think this isn't accurate.

Even the event of their short meeting is impossibly to verify, but I like to believe it happened, just for the love of the idea.


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## avrile

I think this movie is perfect for starters in Classical Music. There are 2 things which I like in the movie: 1. When Mozart demonstrated how to play 5 C's at the same time, and 2. how he composed the Requiem. T'was soooo dramatic. Well I guess the music was enough to create drama! Historically though, as in all other true-to-life films, the movie does not represent the true Mozart.


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## pat shaw

The film was nothing like as good as the original theatre production at London's Royal National Theatre


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## Handel

Morigan said:


> I have never heard of Beethoven taking lessons with Mozart? I think this isn't accurate.
> 
> Even the event of their short meeting is impossibly to verify, but I like to believe it happened, just for the love of the idea.


I wonder where they picked that idea...

It isn't true that Beethoven was sent by the Archbishop of Cologne in Vienna to learn music? So it could have been possible that he met Mozart in 1787 and took a few lessons with him.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

*Amadeus movie*

I was wondering what peice was mozart playing in front of the old man and all the dogs and when he is walking with the wine shortly before seeing his father


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## opus67

Salieri=Innocent said:


> I was wondering what peice was mozart playing in front of the old man and all the dogs


Old man? Jospeh II wasn't all that old during that time.  I remember it being a piano concerto/work for piano and orcehstra, but not the name. Sorry.



> and when he is walking with the wine shortly before seeing his father


That's the third movement from this piano concerto No.15.

There was a fan site for this movie, which I'm unable to locate at the moment (I'm guessing it has been taken down), which listed all the pieces that were featured. (It was called amadeusimmortal.com)

Related discussion of the movie in this forum can be found here.


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## Morigan

opus67 said:


> Old man? Jospeh II wasn't all that old during that time.  I remember it being a piano concerto/work for piano and orcehstra, but not the name. Sorry.
> 
> That's the third movement from this piano concerto No.15.
> 
> There was a fan site for this movie, which I'm unable to locate at the moment (I'm guessing it has been taken down), which listed all the pieces that were featured. (It was called amadeusimmortal.com)
> 
> Related discussion of the movie in this forum can be found here.


Yes opus, I was looking for that great Website too in order to answer to this, but it looks like it was taken down. 

I think the OP means the old man to whose daughter Mozart is supposed to teach lessons, but he is always interrupted by annoying barking dogs that the master of the house seems to treat like his own children. I can't remember what Mozart was playing, though.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

I like the movie for F. Murray Abraham he deserved best actor. But to me the music is what sucks me in especially the Don Giovanni Commendatore scene which to me is the most breath taking scene in any opera ever.


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## opus67

Morigan said:


> I think the OP means the old man to whose daughter Mozart is supposed to teach lessons, but he is always interrupted by annoying barking dogs that the master of the house seems to treat like his own children. I can't remember what Mozart was playing, though.


Hmm. I don't remember such a thing from the film at all.


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## Morigan

Ah... strange. Maybe it was cut from the final version? I have the extended one.

EDIT: Ah, I've just reviewed the part of the movie in question. He played the same thing in both scenes (they are juxtaposed), that is, the third movement from K.450


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## opus67

Morigan said:


> Ah... strange. Maybe it was cut from the final version? I have the extended one.
> 
> EDIT: Ah, I've just reviewed the part of the movie in question. He played the same thing in both scenes (they are juxtaposed), that is, the third movement from K.450


I see. I obviously haven't seen the extended version.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

i have the original VHS release (which it plays the song when he is walking with a bottle of wine shortly before seeing his father when it plays the first five seconds of fon giovanni)
and i have the new DVD of the directors cut which he plays it in fornt of the old man with the dogs.

I THANK EVERYONE WHO PROVIDED INFORMATION FOR ME


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## Edward Elgar

It's a good film I think. Yes, it may not be accurate, but it's a good story and it makes you think about success and ambition on a deeper scale. Also there are some really funny moments - I don't think it beyond the realms of possibility at all that Mozart was a childish imp - in fact I rather like that notion!


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## SalieriIsInnocent

I do to mozart had to be pretty obnoxious cause some of his stuff was pretty fun to listen to. But when mozarts music was serious man it was serious


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## Dividend

One the best movies I have seen as well.
"I absolve thee, I absolve thee"


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## missmaestro

Amadeus is my FAVORITE movie as well...and it has been since i was about 4!!! 
Everything about the movie is perfect even if it isnt historically accurate Private Message me about it Soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amadeus=LOVE

MissMaestro


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## Cyclops

I finally got this on DVD. My other half works at blockbuster and I must have mentioned liking the film ages ago because one came in second hand and she bought it for me! 
I know its innacurate and all that but I love the film!


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## Methodistgirl

I never saw the movie but I did read a biography on Mozart. What he died of in
real life was liver disease from drinking. By the time he was in his thirties he
was an alchoholic. The lady he was married to didn't kill him. She died a long
time before he did during childbirth. Talking about Bach, Mozart fell out with
J S Bach jr and ended their friendship. Beethoven went to the same music
school as Mozart but Mozart was the one teaching. I can go on and on but
I will stop here.
judy tooley


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## opus67

Methodistgirl said:


> What he died of in real life was liver disease from drinking.


That is at most a hypothesis, isn't it?



> The lady he was married to didn't kill him. She died a long time before he did during childbirth.


Who? Constanze?



> Beethoven went to the same music school as Mozart but Mozart was the one teaching.


Mozart's basic training in music was done at home, with his father teaching him and his sister. And there's just one recorded instance as far as I know where Mozart met Beethoven. You can read about that meeting here.


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## SPR

*Amadeus*

I thought F Murray Abraham did an amazing job in this movie. I mean *really* noteworthy. A stellar performance.

Otherwise, the movie was 'good'.


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## Weston

Agreed. Fantastic movie.

I love all the composer historical fiction movies. _Amadeus, Immortal Beloved, A Song to Remember, Impromptu_, and many others. Even _Copying Beethoven _has it's charm. I don't take them seriosuly as history, just as great movies.


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## Rachovsky

Hmm, I don't mean to detract from the subject, but I feel the need to mention a movie that does not revolve around the life of a composer, but makes amazing use of many, particularly Chopin. A friend let me borrow the movie, 'The Pianist' and I honestly fell in love with it. It centers on the life of Wladyslaw Szpilman (nonfiction), a Jewish pianist player who is taken to the Warsaw ghetto. I found it very moving and I've actually taken the time to learn one of the pieces from the movie (Chopin's posthumous Nocturne in C-Sharp Minor). Anyways, I just thought I would express my love for that particular movie.

I've only saw the first, say, thirty minutes of Amadeus from Youtube. After 6 10 minute clips it went into Turkish. A very hilarious movie. The actors were all great and believable. Once again, sorry to run on a tangent.


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## Ciel_Rouge

Hi Rachovsky,

I have seen "The Pianist" recently and will be glad to share my views with you as well as some interesting details. However, I strongly prefer the following thread for this purpose:

http://www.talkclassical.com/182-has-anyone-seen-movie-2.html

As for Amadeus, I suppose you missed the scene where Mozart dictates Requiem to Salieri and we can hear it. You should see the whole film. It is worth it.


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## jhar26

I love "Amadeus." As is usually the case with movies about famous people, especially those from the fields of entertainment or art, it's a mix of about 50% truth and 50% fantasy - but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that it's a great movie.






Gotta love Wolfie.


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## LindenLea

Methodistgirl said:


> I never saw the movie but I did read a biography on Mozart. What he died of in
> real life was liver disease from drinking. By the time he was in his thirties he
> was an alchoholic. The lady he was married to didn't kill him. She died a long
> time before he did during childbirth


That must be a quite extraordinary book you have been reading there! Mozart's wife actually outlived him by 51 years...there is even a famous photograph of her taken in the 1840's!! And I have never before heard his death attributed to alchoholism. He _probably_ died of rheumatic-fever, from which he had already suffered several increasingly severe attacks throughtout his life.


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## jhar26

LindenLea said:


> That must be a quite extraordinary book you have been reading there! Mozart's wife actually outlived him by 51 years...there is even a famous photograph of her taken in the 1840's!! And I have never before heard his death attributed to alchoholism. He _probably_ died of rheumatic-fever, from which he had already suffered several increasingly severe attacks throughtout his life.


Interesting article about the death of Mozart:

http://snow.sierranevada.edu/~csci/WhatKilledMozart.htm


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## karenpat

I love Amadeus too. I had never heard of it or heard much of Mozart's music either when I got the Special edition double disc DVD and after I had seen it I was hooked I actually developed quite a fascination for Mozart and his life. I read several biographies plus a compilation of his letters, and watched several documentaries - still we can't know exactly what he looked like or even where he was buried. I think it's so interesting to hear all those theories about him - I've heard somewhere that he had a very peculiar appearance; his head was not in proportion to his body and his skin was supposedly very pale... I've also heard someone say he had tourettes and that in can be heard in his music.. I don't know what to think, I just find it fascinating with people that have a sort of mystery about them.


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## Capriccio

Saw it. Very well made, funny in parts (love the laugh) but I have a hard time appreciating it because I know so much is exaggerated and falsified. Kinda does the historical characters themselves an injustice, though that's my opinion.


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## Verin

Amadeus is a great movie butI 'm looking for an opera (a piece) by A.Salieri which is played in the Amadeus movie at 7:10 min. I have got few works by him, but I can't find the name of this piece?! Can someone help me ?


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## jhooper3581

"I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not!"

A great quote


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## jhar26

jhooper3581 said:


> "I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not!"
> 
> A great quote


"You are not the only composer in Vienna."

"No, but I'm the best."


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## jhooper3581

jhar26 said:


> "You are not the only composer in Vienna."
> 
> "No, but I'm the best."


He IS the best. And people say that he has a great sence of humor!


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## opus67

Hahahahahahaha...


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## trazom

It's a very beautiful film. A lot of people simply don't get that the movie is not a biopic, nor does it claim to be. It is a brilliant adaptation of the play. The movie is NOT about Mozart, but the unfairness of life such as Salieri having a passion to compose but frustrated with his level of talent. It also clearly defines the difference between talent and genius(which is an over used word and erroneously applied to many talented people.)

And this movie also integrated classical music very brilliantly because it's not simply in the background, but rather takes on its role as an actual character in the movie, which many film critics have commented on. My personal favorite example is where Mozart's body is being carted away with the horses and the strong beat of the Lacrymosa is in sync with the pace of the carriage, almost making it seem like the music has a heartbeat.


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## PartisanRanger

Yes, Mozart's music is used brilliantly in the film. I love the use of the first movement of his 25th symphony to reinforce the vigor of the opening scene.


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## handlebar

PartisanRanger said:


> Yes, Mozart's music is used brilliantly in the film. I love the use of the first movement of his 25th symphony to reinforce the vigor of the opening scene.


I also like that opening. I remember when visiting the building in Prague used for that scene and was instantly transported back to Mozart's time. The building was a museum filled with cannon and they had to be painstakingly removed for the shots. 
That Symphony is a sheer delight!

Jim


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## Edmond-Dantes

OH! I haven't seen that one. Actually, I don't really watch tv or movies all that often. :-/ Most of the time, I'd rather just read a book. This will be a film a definitely watch though.


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## Metalheadwholovesclasical

I loved the movie, I actually recently saw it for the first time, I was looking through old laser disks and found we had a copy of it, and decided to watch it. Tom Hulce did a great job with Mozart, he was great at making dramatic, intense scenes along with comedic scenes very well.


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## Cyclops

Hmmm I think its time I watched it again next time I'm on my own,it has been a while and my other half,who works at Blockbuster,recently came across a pre-owned copy in a collector's edition box.


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## Cyclops

opus67 said:


> That is at most a hypothesis, isn't it?
> 
> Who? Constanze?
> 
> Mozart's basic training in music was done at home, with his father teaching him and his sister. And there's just one recorded instance as far as I know where Mozart met Beethoven. You can read about that meeting here.


Ha,that reminds me of that scene in the movie where Mozart plays something of Beethoven's but improves it,if I remember correctly. They kind of twisted the real events for the movie to make Mozart seem even more prodigious I think.


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## jhar26

LindenLea said:


> Mozart's wife actually outlived him by 51 years...there is even a famous photograph of her taken in the 1840's!!


It's very unlikely that it's really Constanze on that photo though.


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## danae

Cyclops said:


> Ha,that reminds me of that scene in the movie where Mozart plays something of Beethoven's but improves it,if I remember correctly. They kind of twisted the real events for the movie to make Mozart seem even more prodigious I think.


That can't be right, since Beethoven's opus 1 was published AFTER Mozart died! And secondly, I don't think that Mozart at the height of his musical maturity would mock an obviously talented composer 15 years his junior! Mozart was well known for his sense of humour (remember the "Musical Joke"? It's really hilarious!), but his mockery and ironic behaviour was channeled towards lesser or incompetent musicians of his own time.


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## Cyclops

danae said:


> That can't be right, since Beethoven's opus 1 was published AFTER Mozart died! And secondly, I don't think that Mozart at the height of his musical maturity would mock an obviously talented composer 15 years his junior! Mozart was well known for his sense of humour (remember the "Musical Joke"? It's really hilarious!), but his mockery and ironic behaviour was channeled towards lesser or incompetent musicians of his own time.


Well as I said its been a while since I watched it and well the movies don't have to represent real life. Maybe Beethoven performs something of Mozart's and Mozart isn't impressed. I might watch it tonight,if I can get the kids to bed on time!


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## emiellucifuge

My favorite scene is when Mozart presents a new work to the emperor. The emperor completely adores the piece, but soon regains his composure. Fumbling for some form of criticism to dispense - he awkwardly proclaims that there are too many notes.


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## Cyclops

emiellucifuge said:


> My favorite scene is when Mozart presents a new work to the emperor. The emperor completely adores the piece, but soon regains his composure. Fumbling for some form of criticism to dispense - he awkwardly proclaims that there are too many notes.


Yes! I remember that scene!


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## Ciel_Rouge

Guys, we already have biographical inaccuracy issues and now things get a little mixed up. Funny how these things happen especially if we watch a lot of different films. As far as I can tell, Beethoven is NOT featured in this film and in reality they met only once - Mozart was going to give lessons to Beethoven but Beethoven had to leave Vienna and was taught by Haydn instead. 

I watched Amadeus for the first time only last year and I do not watch a lot of films. So perhaps I can be of assistance.

1. The scene where Mozart improves a composition of another person features Salieri as the other composer
2. The "too many notes" remark was not made by the emperor but by some jealous musicians at the court


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## Cyclops

Hmmm I'm sure Beethoven featured in the movie! I still haven't had chance to re watch it and mine is the Director's edition with an extra 20 minutes apparently.


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## emiellucifuge

Ciel_Rouge said:


> 2. The "too many notes" remark was not made by the emperor but by some jealous musicians at the court


Oh well 

Its still funny though


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## Cyclops

emiellucifuge said:


> Oh well
> 
> Its still funny though


Yes,it is!


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## wolf

Ciel_Rouge said:


> ...The "too many notes" remark was not made by the emperor but by some jealous musicians at the court


A bit of a throw-away, as that comment is genuine, and in real life it WAS the emperor that uttered it.


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## emiellucifuge

Damn that makes it even funnier


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## Ciel_Rouge

Indeed, and Cyclops - you got me intrigued by this director's cut featuring an extra 20 minutes. I would very much like to find out what was there shall an opportunity arise to re-watch


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## emiellucifuge

I found this extract from an article:

The famous complaint of Emperor Joseph II about The Marriage of Figaro - "too many notes, Mozart" - is generally perceived to be a gaffe by a blockhead. In fact, Joseph was echoing what nearly everybody, including his admirers, said about Mozart: he was so imaginative that he couldn't turn it off, and that made his music at times intense, even demonic. Hence Mozart's bad, or cautionary, reviews: "too strongly spiced"; "impenetrable labyrinths"; "bizarre flights of the soul"; "overloaded and overstuffed".


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## wolf

emiellucifuge said:


> I found this extract from an article:
> 
> The famous complaint of Emperor Joseph II about The Marriage of Figaro - "too many notes, Mozart" - is generally perceived to be a gaffe by a blockhead. In fact, Joseph was echoing what nearly everybody, including his admirers, said about Mozart: he was so imaginative that he couldn't turn it off, and that made his music at times intense, even demonic. Hence Mozart's bad, or cautionary, reviews: "too strongly spiced"; "impenetrable labyrinths"; "bizarre flights of the soul"; "overloaded and overstuffed".


Yes, the emperor was certainly not alone in finding his music difficult, even the musical vienneese had a hard time with it, hence mzts last bitter years. I don't think that the 'blockhead' perception is the truth really, the emperor - although he was no GREAT fan of Mzt - hasn't come out of history with a 'blockhead' reputation, not even in music.


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## Cyclops

Ciel_Rouge said:


> Indeed, and Cyclops - you got me intrigued by this director's cut featuring an extra 20 minutes. I would very much like to find out what was there shall an opportunity arise to re-watch


You and me both. You know when I think about it I've lived up here since 2001 and prior to that I was living on my own for two years without a TV(joy!) So it could well be at least 10 years since I've watched it!


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## bdelykleon

One of the problems most contemporary had with Mozart was that Mozart's music has too much meat in the middle voices. Most music at that time was simply a free melody, sometimes a bass, and only a funcional middle harmony. Mozart loved middle voice writing (that's why he loved the viola and played it in string quartets and in the sinfonia concertante) and therefore his music is too eventful to most XVIII century's listeners, except musicians, who seemed to rever him.

That's why the "too many notes".


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## JoeGreen

Cyclops said:


> Hmmm I'm sure Beethoven featured in the movie! I still haven't had chance to re watch it and mine is the Director's edition with an extra 20 minutes apparently.


LOL Cyclops did you really ever see the movie. Jk 

But goes to show you how faulty human memory is and can create false memories so readily.

But the fact is Beethoven was never shown or mention, and as Ciel_Rouge said it was Salieri's piece that Mozart improved on.

and as Trazom mentioned earlier, that this movie was never claimed to be a historical accurate biography of Mozart, nor was it meant too, the "protagonist" is Salieri.It's this misunderstanding that makes alot of people angry and complaining about the movie and how inaccurate it is and so on. But in reality they're getting all hopped up for no good reason.


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## bdelykleon

Actually, Beethoven is shown in another biopic of Mozart, it is a German production of the 40's called "Wen die Götter lieben", it is an ok film, but sometimes a little cheesy. And it has this conversation between Mozart and Beethoven, the guy from Bonn shows up, plays the Clair de Lune and discuss about music with MOzart. It is a silly scene.


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## Cyclops

JoeGreen said:


> the "protagonist" is Salieri..


Hmmm thats not the impression I got from it. In fact I'd say its played to cast Salieri as the antagonist. Of course thats not true but well it is a movie,not a documentary.


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## Ciel_Rouge

Guys... Perhaps you could use this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086879/

and especially this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086879/plotsummary

Puhleease... 

The IMDB is a great way of finding films about composers by the way.


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## JoeGreen

Cyclops said:


> Hmmm thats not the impression I got from it. In fact I'd say its played to cast Salieri as the antagonist. Of course thats not true but well it is a movie,not a documentary.


Thats why I placed Protagonist in qoutation marks. Meaning that he is the main focus of the film good or not.


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## Cyclops

But Protagonist means good guy and he comes cross as a jealous wretch.
And surely Mozart is the main focus of the movie!
Actually I'd say it was progress that was the main focus,the new and fresh over the old and established.


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## Cyclops

Am finally going to get to watch it,Hallelulja,lol 
Only there's a choice. Watch it in dolby 5.1 or dolby 2•••


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## emiellucifuge

whats the difference? How are you going to choose?!
theres no hope...


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## Cyclops

Oh forget that about the sound,it is nothing compared to the experience of this film. 
It has been so long since I watched it that it was like seeing it for the first time. I got so involved in it that I actually came to hate Salieri with a passion. Isn't that silly,its just a film! But his part was played SO well. And in the end. The end,Mozart in a pauper's grave. What end is that for a giant?
I actually had a lump in my throat during the writing of the requem mass,no more than that. I felt more than that. 
I want to hear that mass in full now. I have to.


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## JoeGreen

Cyclops said:


> But Protagonist means good guy and he comes cross as a jealous wretch.
> And surely Mozart is the main focus of the movie!
> Actually I'd say it was progress that was the main focus,the new and fresh over the old and established.


I actually felts Salieri was given the slight emphasis. One could say that both Mozart and Salieri share the lead. But I always viewed the film as being more about Salieri's Story than Mozart's. But thats my opinion, anyone got an article about the director saying anything on this matter?


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## Cyclops

JoeGreen said:


> I actually felts Salieri was given the slight emphasis. One could say that both Mozart and Salieri share the lead. But I always viewed the film as being more about Salieri's Story than Mozart's. But thats my opinion, anyone got an article about the director saying anything on this matter?


Well as this is a 2 disk set there may be some enlightenment there. I shall look thru that in a day or two.


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## livemylife

This movie gives me nightmares. I always feel as though Salieri is coming after me with his demonic laugh.


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## Cyclops

livemylife said:


> This movie gives me nightmares. I always feel as though Salieri is coming after me with his demonic laugh.


I know,it is a menacing part isn't it,Abraham plays the part amazingly well! And you know something,I actually found myself wanting to hear the rest of that opera of his!


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## Cyclops

I just watched the extras disk, concerning the making of the movie,and one thing I didn't realise is that the scene featuring the premiere of Mozart's Don Giovanni was actually filmed in the very same theatre! Peter Schaefer had disappeared and they sent someone to find him. He was found crying because of the realisation of this momentous occasion. His idol Mozart had stood where he'd just stood. That must have been amazing! And the fact that this theatre,long neglected and unkempt,was made of wood,and they had to have all these candles burning for the movie. Nowadays it would be done with CGI but back then that wasn't an option. And to prove the dangerous nature of such a scene,one of the actors,sporting a huge feather in his hat,leaned too close to a candle and it caught fire! Luckily they had firemen on set-the whole place was dry and dusty,a veritable tinderbox. But filming in that theatre I think had to be done. It creates the right atmosphere. Fabulous.


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## Saturnus

Handel said:


> Was a good dramatic story. Of course it was not historically accurate (I remember the scene when Leopold visited Wolfgang. That was in 1785 and in real lige, Wolfgang's career was rather successful at that time. But the movie rather depicts the last year of Mozart, when he had financial problems.)
> 
> Btw, I can remember it, but is there any presence of Haydn in the movie. I'm just curious.


Well, there is a picture of him hanging on the wall in Mozart's home (you can see it in the scene where Constanze and Mozart's father are having an arguement)


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## Mirror Image

I've never seen "Amadeus." I'm really not into movies about a composer's life. I can read facts about Mozart anytime I want to, I'm much more into factual information, not hypothetical information.


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## Ciel_Rouge

Well, films about composers are a bit like operas about mythological figures. Each of those is just an "interpretation" presenting a character not exactly true to the "original" but still pretty close. I also rarely watch films altogether, but when I do they are usually films about composers or those featuring real classical music prominently in the soundtrack.


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## JoeGreen

Mirror Image said:


> not hypothetical information.


well see that's sad, because that's were the fun is.


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## Mirror Image

JoeGreen said:


> well see that's sad, because that's were the fun is.


All I care about is the composer's music. What the composer did, could have done, or should have done with their personal lives doesn't interest me.


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## jhar26

Mirror Image said:


> All I care about is the composer's music. What the composer did, could have done, or should have done with their personal lives doesn't interest me.


Regardless of whether one is interested in Mozart's private life (or even in his music for that matter) or not - Amadeus is worth seeing simply because it's a great movie.


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## Mirror Image

jhar26 said:


> Regardless of whether one is interested in Mozart's private life (or even in his music for that matter) or not - Amadeus is worth seeing simply because it's a great movie.


That's your opinion. I happily and wholeheartedly disagree with you. Movies about composers don't warrant my attention.


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## trazom

> Movies about composers don't warrant my attention.


It's not really ABOUT a composer. It's a work of fiction, a play/drama, that has two composers as characters. The movie is admired for its aspects of entertainment and technical mastery of film making, not as a truthful documentary of any famous composer. However, if some aspects about either composer being changed for dramatic purposes bothers you, which it did for a lot of people, then I don't recommend watching it.


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## Padawan

I found Amadeus to be very entertaining. I’m sure it’s not historically accurate, but that isn’t I watch movies for. I tend to think of it really being more about Salieri’s view of Mozart than a biography. In any case, I thought F. Murray Abraham’s portrayal of Antonio Salieri and well-deserving of the Best Actor Oscar he earned.


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## Sieglinde

I totally love it. Of coruse it's inaccurate, but it grabs the athmosphere really well, and uses the music perfetly. And Salieri - my God, what an epic character! F. Murray Abraham is seriously underrated.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Amadeus remains a favorite film of mine. Historical inaccuracies are of no more concern to me in this setting than they are in Shakespeare. I also must credit it with really broadening my exposure to classical music when I was first exploring the genre... especially opera.


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## Elgarian

Watching _Amadeus_ again recently, after a gap of many years, and being far, far, more appreciative of Mozart's music than I was then, I must say that I enjoyed it enormously - enough to watch it twice over. Approached as an account of a piece of Mozart biography, it is of course hopelessly misleading, but I've come to the conclusion that that's an inappropriate way of approaching it.

Rather, I find it helpful to approach it primarily as a movie not primarily about Mozart at all, but about a partly-fictionalised Salieri's _obsession_ with Mozart. And so the Mozart we see in the film is not Mozart as he was, but Mozart _as this Salieri saw him._ Almost everything we see is seen as if through a Salieri-filter; and all the silly nonsense is exaggerated because that emphasises the things about Mozart that disturbed Salieri so much. At any rate, approaching the movie in this way made it a far more enjoyable and satisfactory experience than it had formerly been, because the issue of how accurate it is (or isn't) hardly arises.

I also recommend the following experiment. There's a scene where Mozart visits Salieri and is given a dish of something which he finds delicious. Salieri explains that it's made from cream cheese, sugar, and rum. I found myself wondering what a low-fat, low-calorie version of this might be like. So I got some Philadelphia Extra-Light cream cheese (very low in fat and calories) and mixed it up in a bowl with a couple of spoonfuls of powdered artificial sweetener and half a measure of whisky (I didn't have any rum to hand).

The result is mind-blowingly delicious. And if you use 100g of Philly (half a 200g pot) and half a measure of whisky, the total calories is about the same as a slice of bread (a lot less than a Mars bar and a lot more delicious). I commend this Amadean Creamy Delight to you. Don't forget to listen to a bit of prime Mozart while you're eating it.


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## Ralfy




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