# Best Mozart Concerto Middle Movements



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Please choose your top 3.

No poll because there are too many to choose.

Here are mine.

*1. Clarinet Concerto
2. Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola
3. PC 23
*
Very hard to choose but there they are.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Hard to argue with them, especially since this is the kind of topic that could develop into a brawl very easily. I mean, the Flute and Harp concerto has a bit of dinger in the *****, and of course PC #27 has that elegiac slow two-fingered movement. What about PC#21, etc?

_Best_, as opposed to _Favourite_, is another area for potential argy-bargy.

I'm going to place my chips on #27 to start with, then #22, and then the Flute & Harp. But really, it's like Sophie's Choice here, choosing one baby before another. I really think the clue to getting Mozart is contained in these crucial slow sets, and at the risk of veering into hysterical hyperbole, I can't think of a slow movement by Mozart that I didn't love wildly, at some point...


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I'm not sure about best but perhaps my favorite are:

Piano Concerto No. 20 
Sinfonia Concertante
Piano Concerto No. 23


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Kieran said:


> Hard to argue with them, especially since this is the kind of topic that could develop into a brawl very easily. I mean, the Flute and Harp concerto has a bit of dinger in the *****, and of course PC #27 has that elegiac slow two-fingered movement. What about PC#21, etc?
> 
> _Best_, as opposed to _Favourite_, is another area for potential argy-bargy.
> 
> I'm going to place my chips on #27 to start with, then #22, and then the Flute & Harp. But really, it's like Sophie's Choice here, choosing one baby before another. I really think the clue to getting Mozart is contained in these crucial slow sets, and at the risk of veering into hysterical hyperbole, I can't think of a slow movement by Mozart that I didn't love wildly, at some point...


I think best/favourite are interchangeable for this question.
Yes I know - middle mvt of pc 21 - very difficult to leave it out - such a stunningly original piece - but to choose a top 3 is quite a painful task in this case. Easier perhaps to choose your best 3 mozart operas - as there are really 6 mature operas to choose from, but slow movements - must be 20 to 30 of similar quality.
No argy bargy - as this is a mozart only question.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

My favorite slow movement, out of just the concertos, is the Andante from Piano concerto #17 k.453.






I like it even more than the adagio from the 23rd piano concerto. I guess the other two would be the slow movements from piano concertos 18 and 22.


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Coicidentally, I'm listening to the gorgeous andante of #10 for 2 pianos, and I'll be up all night listening to Mozart: am I allowed to change my vote as I go along? :lol:


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## DiesIraeCX (Jul 21, 2014)

My top three are mmslbs', but in a different order.

1. Piano Concerto #23
2. Piano Concerto #20
3. Sinfonia Concertante

The 23rd's Adagio is one of those rare movements that make time stand still.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Pretty much all of his slow movement from the piano concertos. The clarinet concerto, flute and harp concerto etc.

Pure works of genius!


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

I agree. Nos. 20, 21, 23 and 27 are obvious choices as are the clarinet concerto & sinfonia concertante. All beautiful slow movements. I also love no.22's andante. I like how Alfred Einstein compared nos. 22 and 23... "In this (no.23) movement there appears in veiled form that passion which in the Andante of the preceding Concerto had revealed itself nakedly; the resignation and hopelessness are the same." 

The other A major piano concerto K.414 has one of my favorite middle movements as well. 
And...I can't forget the exquisite playing of the woodwind section in the G major K.453.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Really difficult....

1. Sinfonia Concertante
2. PC No. 23
3. PC No. 20


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

May I mention just a few more... 

4. PC No. 21
5. PC No. 27
6. PC No. 17
7. PC No. 9
8. Clarinet C. 

And a couple of slow movements outside concerti that I find sublime too:

Sonata for 2 pianos in D major
Wind Quintet


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## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

I think I enjoy all of them, these are my favorites.

1. Piano Concerto No. 20

2. Horn Concerto No. 3

3. Piano Concerto No. 1 (Perahia)

and PC No. 23


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Too, too difficult to choose...........but here it is:

Sinfonia concertante K364
PC # 22 K482
PC #23 K488


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

K218, K219, K299/297c.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

Piano Concerto No. 23
Piano Concerto No. 27
Clarinet Concerto


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

PC23 and Sinfonia Concertante appear to figure in many top 3s.
Glad to see other concertos appearing too - the violin concertos
what about k216 - Alfred Einstein said that movement seemed to "drop from heaven"


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Piano concerto 17/ Piano concerto 21/ Clarinet concerto


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

All the above and PC 24.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Piano concerto 23 and clarinet concerto for sure. Very torn between piano concerto 27 and sinfonia concertante.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My favorite is the Romanze movement from the Keyboard Concerto No. 20.

Starts with one of Mozart's most beautiful melodies, in B Flat Major.

Has a profound contrasting minor stormy middle section in g minor.

Then a modulation to die for, back to the original melody in B Flat Major.

Incredible!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

hpowders said:


> My favorite is the Romanze movement from the Keyboard Concerto No. 20.
> 
> Starts with one of Mozart's most beautiful melodies, in B Flat Major.
> 
> ...


well summarized!
people who claim M wrote mainly in major keys forget than many of his movements in a major key have a minor key episode


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

stomanek said:


> well summarized!
> people who claim M wrote mainly in major keys forget than many of his movements in a major key have a minor key episode


The two greatest modulator masters in my opinion were Mozart and Schubert.


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

stomanek said:


> PC23 and Sinfonia Concertante appear to figure in many top 3s.
> Glad to see other concertos appearing too - the violin concertos
> what about k216 - Alfred Einstein said that movement seemed to "drop from *heaven"*


There's that word again. Watch out! Those Mozart detractors will jump over from the other thread. Or... Do you just like to invite trouble? Just kidding! :lol:

Back on topic, just listening to K.216's adagio now. It is amazing that someone who wasn't very attracted to the violin concerto could write such attractive & sublime music for the genre. And later...we even got a concerto for violin & viola to boot!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Yes. The slow movement from K216, the G Major Violin Concerto is very fine, but so is the one from K 218, the D Major Violin Concerto.

There's no escape from mega-genius!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

And what about the meltingly beautiful slow movement of K 488?

So many choices!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Too bad Mozart didn't write some two or four movement concertos. Then we could debate what constitutes a Mozart middle movement for a year or two.


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## Green pasture (Aug 11, 2015)

Really hard to choose but these are my top 5 favourites:

Piano Concerto No. 20

Piano Concerto No. 23

Piano Concerto No. 22 (this middle movement was encored at the concerto's premiere; the Viennese audience apparently loved it)

Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola

Clarinet Concerto


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Biwa said:


> There's that word again. Watch out! Those Mozart detractors will jump over from the other thread. Or... Do you just like to invite trouble? Just kidding! :lol:
> 
> Back on topic, just listening to K.216's adagio now. *It is amazing that someone who wasn't very attracted to the violin concerto could write such attractive & sublime music for the genre. * And later...we even got a concerto for violin & viola to boot!


what makes you say that?
It s indeed a shame M had no opportunity to write a VC in his prime - I suppose k364 is the closest we have - but imagine if one of the mature piano concertos had been a vc instead. Still - those 5 vcs are remarkable - not least the sudden shift in style between vc2 and vc 3,4,5.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Biwa said:


> There's that word again. Watch out! *Those Mozart detractors will jump over from the other thread*. Or... Do you just like to invite trouble? Just kidding! :lol:
> 
> Back on topic, just listening to K.216's adagio now. It is amazing that someone who wasn't very attracted to the violin concerto could write such attractive & sublime music for the genre. And later...we even got a concerto for violin & viola to boot!


I dont think those with icy hearts will be visiting this thread. Oops - an infraction coming - I just insulted 10% of the board.


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

stomanek said:


> what makes you say that?
> It s indeed a shame M had no opportunity to write a VC in his prime - I suppose k364 is the closest we have - but imagine if one of the mature piano concertos had been a vc instead. Still - those 5 vcs are remarkable - not least the sudden shift in style between vc2 and vc 3,4,5.


Oh, I just meant that Mozart was a reluctant (albeit skilled) violinist. I didn't mean to imply he hated the violin. He certainly wrote a lot of wonderful music for the instrument. His violin sonatas alone are quite an achievement. But, his father wrote of his disappointment that Mozart left his violin hanging on the wall... basically collecting dust. And he did seem to have a preference for the viola. Perhaps the point that makes it most clear is (as you mentioned) that there is no VC from his mature period. The piano concerto is where he chose to express his deepest thoughts in the form.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The slow movement of Mozart's Keyboard Concerto No. 9 was his first truly great keyboard concerto slow movement.

Dramatic and profound, like an extended opera aria for piano.


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## Harmonie (Mar 24, 2007)

I've always loved the second movement of Piano Concerto No. 23. The Clarinet Concerto is great, too, but I think I listened to it a little bit too much in my early days of loving classical music. lol


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## Biwa (Aug 3, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Too bad Mozart didn't write some two or four movement concertos. Then we could debate what constitutes a Mozart middle movement for a year or two.


Are you suggesting we start a similar thread on Mozart's serenades, divertimenti, and cassations?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Biwa said:


> Are you suggesting we start a similar thread on Mozart's serenades, divertimenti, and cassations?


Well, then, let me to be the first to vote for the Serenade for 13 Wind Instruments, K. 361. Two glorious slow movements-movements three and five!


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Biwa said:


> Oh, I just meant that Mozart was a reluctant (albeit skilled) violinist. I didn't mean to imply he hated the violin. He certainly wrote a lot of wonderful music for the instrument. His violin sonatas alone are quite an achievement. But, his father wrote of his disappointment that Mozart left his violin hanging on the wall... basically collecting dust. And he did seem to have a preference for the viola. Perhaps the point that makes it most clear is (as you mentioned) that there is no VC from his mature period. The piano concerto is where he chose to express his deepest thoughts in the form.


Good comments.
As for why M left his violin in its case most of the time - my son plays violin and piano - he most readily goes to the piano and when I asked him why - he said - the violin's much harder to play. I know how talented Mozart was but to maintain a high standard it really is quite a sacrifice of time/effort compared with piano.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

No one has mentioned the original slow mvt of k313.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

This is an excellent thread; thanks for posting.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

So many to mention. I second all those posters who nominated the Clarinet Concerto slow movement.

And also, there's the world-weary, bittersweet, slow movement of Mozart's last keyboard concerto, No. 27. It's almost like with the Clarinet Concerto and 27th Keyboard Concerto, Mozart was already saying goodbye.


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