# Scandinavian masters



## Flavius (Oct 7, 2017)

Several months ago the Scandinavian composers caught my attention. Of course we all know and enjoy Sibelius and Grieg, but who else? Geirr Tveitt has especially interested me: his Folk-tunes from Hardanger, piano concertos, the suites, the 'Sun God Symphony', and the opera 'Baldur's Dreams'. For me, this is engrossing music, self-contained, introspective, satisfying, revealing a personality very much to my liking (sane and profound, attached to its land and origin). 

There is Allan Pettersson, rising above his pain, self-possessing, and Wilhelm Stenhammar, Hilding Rosenberg (Thomas Mann's friend), Lars-Erik Larsson, and of course Alvfen.

How many of us have discovered these northern masters who have so much to share?


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Hi Flavius good to see you here.

For me Sibelius probably stands head and shoulders above the crowd in terms of his Symphonic output but as you rightly suggest there are so many other Scandinavian composers worthy of investigation.
I am surprised you omitted two of my favourite composers, both Danes - Nielsen & Holmboe.

Holmboe's Symphonies and String Quartets are a body of work that will take me years to fully appreciate - especially the Quartets.

I'd also add Kalevi Aho, Gosta Nystroem & Joonas Kokkonen as others well worth investigation.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

I can also recommend Tveitt's 50 Folk Tunes from Hardanger. Of the ones you listed, what would be the next best thing to hear from that composer?


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## Flavius (Oct 7, 2017)

Hi, Malx, good to see you here, also.

Nielsen should have been mentioned (I have Rozhdestvensky conducting his symphonies on Chandos), and I have yet to discover Holmboe, Aho, Nystroen and Kokkonon. Norgard recently joined my collection. Thanks for adding to my list. Your comments on Holmboe intrigue me: what would you suggest for an introduction?


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## Flavius (Oct 7, 2017)

Thank you, bharbeke, for also recommending Tveitt. For an appreciation of his orchestral music, let me suggest his 'Sun God Symphony'. Aside from a composer's technical competence and originality, who can account for his special appeal?


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Another vote for Holmboe and Tveitt. Grieg, Melartin, Röntgen, Klenau, Zweers, Heise, etc. are the great Scandinavian romantics. Zweers' 3rd Symphony and Klenau's 9th are Mahlerian masterpieces and must not be forgotten.

A. Merikanto, Raitio, and Valen ("the Norwegian Schoenberg") are interesting as well. Merikanto's orchestral works have sharp, chromatic tendencies while Raitio's are smoother (not less worthwhile). Valen, compared to these two, is a much harder nut to crack. His dense, atonal counterpoint may be offputting to some at first, but sure is fun to analyze. The Violin Concerto, op. 37, is in my opinion the composer's best work. Klaus Egge, Valen's contemporary, composed some 'fine and dandy' music as well. Oh, and then there's Leifs - interesting music, of which I would immediately recommend the Requiem, the string quartets, and the Saga Symphony.

Niels Viggo Bentzon, the hyper-prolific student of Holmboe, is truly remarkable. Among the many gems of his output are Symphonies 3 & 4, Piano Sonatas 3 & 5, and the collosal _The Tempered Piano_ (13 solid hours of music!).

Then there are the contemporary composer (of which Scandinavia has a lot to offer). Saariaho is a huge name and has done some amazing things (check out Lichtbogen, L'Amour de loin, Six Japanese Gardens, etc.); Salonen, Aho, and Lindberg are not far behind, though. Segerstam's huge body of symphonies cannot be forgotten, but not much has been recorded.

Oh, and Rautavaara! How could I forget? Piano Concerto 1, Symphonies 7 & 8, Piano Sonatas 1 & 2, Cantus Arcticus, Angels and Visitations, etc., etc.......

Englund! I wholeheartedly recommend the 4th Symphony.

--

_My haphazard conclusion_: Scandinavia has already produced a number of first-rate composers, and shows no signs of slowing down.


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## Flavius (Oct 7, 2017)

Portamento:

That's quite a list of Scandinavian composers. I have Rautavaara's 'Cantus Arcticus', 1st Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto and several other works are included in my Scandinavian folder of CDs. (I'm transferring my thousand-odd collection to loose-leaf binders, a la Jedermann.)

I haven't heard any of Segerstam's compositions, though his DVD of 'The Flying Dutchman' has become my 'go-to' recording. He's a magnificent conductor, and certainly has a grasp of Petterson's symphonies.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I appreciate Rautavaara and believe he is much different from modern composers who create "difficult" "music" that really doesn't seem like music. Rautavaara and people like Schnittke shows the world that you can be very advanced in the avant garde and still make music that's listenable. I think anything less is just a power grab, knowingly or unknowingly, a type of darkness and delusion, and I'm glad I'm not a teenager anymore trying to have to learn to like that stuff.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Flavius: 
what I really meant to convey is that there is a lot in Holmboe's music that I find reveals itself after a few listens and continues to surprise me even later. The String Quartets, for me, are less accessible than the symphonies but when given some active listening they reward me again and again. I would put them in a similar envelope to Bartok's set and although contemporaneous with Shostokovich they are to my ear significantly different, at times perhaps a little denser!

Where is a good place to start - if your forte is symphonic music then the symphonies are as good as anywhere. The first four symphonies are imo Holmboe finding his feet - from symphony 5 onwards things greatly improve, my favourites are probably 5, 6, 9, & 11 but as you will appreciate these things can change as time passes.
His cello concerto is a fine work, he also wrote concertos for brass instruments, flute, recorder and others all decent pieces worthy of an audition.
Another favourite disc of mine is his "Four Symphonic Metamorphoses" on BIS with the Aalborg SO under Owain Arwel Hughes.

Then there are the chamber symphonies, chamber pieces he was a very prolific composer.

Hope this helps, I'm sure other posters wil have different opinions which they will be glad to add to the pot.


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Portamento said:


> Another vote for Holmboe and Tveitt. Grieg, Melartin, Röntgen, Klenau, Zweers, Heise, etc. are the great Scandinavian romantics. Zweers' 3rd Symphony and Klenau's 9th are Mahlerian masterpieces and must not be forgotten.
> 
> A. Merikanto, Raitio, and Valen ("the Norwegian Schoenberg") are interesting as well. Merikanto's orchestral works have sharp, chromatic tendencies while Raitio's are smoother (not less worthwhile). Valen, compared to these two, is a much harder nut to crack. His dense, atonal counterpoint may be offputting to some at first, but sure is fun to analyze. The Violin Concerto, op. 37, is in my opinion the composer's best work. Klaus Egge, Valen's contemporary, composed some 'fine and dandy' music as well. Oh, and then there's Leifs - interesting music, of which I would immediately recommend the Requiem, the string quartets, and the Saga Symphony.
> 
> ...


Portamento:

I agree with your comments regarding Saariaho, she is a significant contemporary composer with works that are thought provoking but not too difficult to access for those such as myself who find some modern compositions inpenetrable.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Add to the list ... Knudage Riisager ... try his _Qarrtsiluni_ (one of those almost untranslatable words which means something like "sitting in the darkness waiting for something to burst forth").

If you are willing to add the Baltic states to Scandinavia, then try Eduard Tubin.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Portamento said:


> Another vote for Holmboe and Tveitt. Grieg, Melartin, Röntgen, Klenau, Zweers, Heise, etc. are the great Scandinavian romantics. Zweers' 3rd Symphony and Klenau's 9th are Mahlerian masterpieces and must not be forgotten.


Ummm.... Zweers and Röntgen are Dutch.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Some of my faves:

Norway: Grieg, Svendsen, Halvorsen, Tveitt
Sweden: Alfven, Berwald, Stenhammar, Larsson, Nystroem, Atterberg
Denmark: C Nielsen, L Glass, A Hamerik, Holmboe, Buxtehude
Finland: Sibelius, Crusell, Aho, Saariaho, Sallinen, Rautavaara, Englund, Madetoja
Iceland: Leifs


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

I would also add Langgaard for his symphonies.


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## pokeefe0001 (Jan 15, 2017)

Don't forget Christian Sinding. Maybe not a "master" but certainly competent enough.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Other worthy composers:

From Sweden: Wilhelm Peterson-Berger, Ture Rangström, Dag Wiren
From Finland: Uuno Klami
From Denmark: Hakon Borresen, Victor Bendix, Ludolf Nielsen
From Norway: Ludvig Irgens-Jensen


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## LP collector (Aug 6, 2016)

MusicSybarite said:


> Other worthy composers:
> 
> From Sweden: Wilhelm Peterson-Berger, Ture Rangström, Dag Wiren
> From Finland: Uuno Klami
> ...


Ture Rangstrom is a name unknown to me so not expecting too much from a LP of Leif Segerstam conducting Swedish Radio SO in Rangstrom's 1st Symphony. How wrong I was! A real find of a first rate symphony. I intend to explore other works of this composer.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I never really got on with Holmboe but time may tell. There are only a few pieces by Rautavaara that impress me but quite a lot by his student, Aho, does work for me. I am deeply impressed by much of Pettersson and feel that his music will come to hold a higher place in our appreciation than it currently does. Was he the last great symphonist? I enjoyed the relatively recent recording of Abrahamsen's Let Me Tell You, possibly because I like Barbara Hannigan's voice. I have enjoyed what I have heard of Per Norgard's music but that is not (yet) much.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

*Bent Sørensen*
Jón Leifs
Allan Pettersson
Rued Langgaard
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Joonas Kokkonen


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Per Norgard

Finnish composers don't fall under Scandinavia.


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

I think Niels Gade wasn't previously mentioned, he's a Danish/Scandinavian composer, I recommend his works for organ.

Other interesting composers: Knut Nystedt (Norway), Otto Olsson (Sweden) and J.P.E. Hartmann (Denmark).


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## S P Summers (Dec 23, 2016)

Kurt Atterburg
Adolf Wiklund
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Wilhelm Stenhammar
Edvard Grieg (of course)


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

starthrower said:


> Per Norgard
> 
> Finnish composers don't fall under Scandinavia.


Denmark is also not on the Scandinavian peninsula.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Delete please. Fanx!


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

As I understand it, Scandinavia is Norway, Sweden and Denmark but it is not that unusual to include Finland and even Iceland - sometimes using the name "Norse countries". I think in music this is what we generally mean when we talk of Scandinavian composers. My own view is that only Norgard comes close to being as great Sibelius and Nielsen. But many others have written some interesting music and I haven't heard enough of Saariaho to know what I think.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Sloe said:


> Denmark is also not on the Scandinavian peninsula.


Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are the countries associated as Scandinavian.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

_"Scandinavia, historically Scandia, part of northern Europe, generally held to consist of the two countries of the Scandinavian Peninsula, Norway and Sweden, with the addition of Denmark. Some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland on geologic and economic grounds and of Iceland and the Faroe Islands on the grounds that their inhabitants speak North Germanic (or Scandinavian) languages related to those of Norway and Sweden. The term Norden has also come into use to denote Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden, a group of countries having affinities with one another and a distinctness from the rest of continental Europe. Among their distinguishing characteristics are thinly populated northern regions, a relative wealth of fish resources, long life expectancies, and high levels of literacy."_

*The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2019
*https://www.britannica.com/place/Scandinavia


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## Vronsky (Jan 5, 2015)

The same discussion exists for the Balkans, whether Romania, Slovenia and Greece are part of the Peninsula or they're more culturally/traditionally connected with other regions.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

It's an old debate what to include in Scandinavia and there is no definite answer, but opinions and habits vary.


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## morsing (Jan 14, 2019)

joen_cph said:


> It's an old debate what to include in Scandinavia and there is no definite answer, but opinions and habits vary.


Well, there is... Two posts above. Some people may argue for, or call Nordic countries Scandinavia, but it doesn't change the current definition.

And I love Niels W. Gade's Elverskud, don't think it was mentioned above. And Nielsen's Maskerade.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

morsing said:


> Well, there is... Two posts above. Some people may argue for, or call Nordic countries Scandinavia, but it doesn't change the current definition.
> 
> And I love Niels W. Gade's Elverskud, don't think it was mentioned above. And Nielsen's Maskerade.


But the posts here prove that the definition is fluent, such as whether for example Finland should be included or not. It's also seen in the various Wiki articles:

"_The term Scandinavia in local usage covers the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. The majority national languages of these three, belong to the Scandinavian dialect continuum, and are mutually intelligible North Germanic languages.[5] In English usage, Scandinavia also sometimes refers to the Scandinavian Peninsula, or to the broader region including Finland and Iceland, which is always known locally as the Nordic countries._"

"_Skandinavien (lateinisch Scandināvia (Scadināvia, Scatināvia), Scandia)[1] ist ein Teil Nordeuropas, der je nach Definitionsweise unterschiedliche Länder umfasst, darunter in jedem Fall Norwegen und Schweden auf der Skandinavischen Halbinsel, daneben im Regelfall auch Dänemark ... m geographischen Sinn ist Skandinavien die Skandinavische Halbinsel, auf der sich die Staaten Norwegen und Schweden sowie der Nordwesten Finnlands befinden. Aus geschichtlicher Sicht und in sprachlich-kultureller Hinsicht setzt sich Skandinavien im engeren Sinne aus Schweden, Norwegen und Dänemark zusammen. Im weiteren Sinne werden auch ganz Finnland und seltener Island und die Färöer zu Skandinavien gezählt.[2][3]_"

"_Escandinavia es una región geográfica y cultural del norte de Europa (aunque el vocablo se usa comúnmente también en términos idiomáticos) compuesta por los reinos de Noruega, Suecia y Dinamarca, en los cuales se hablan lenguas nórdicas, también llamadas lenguas escandinavas. Algunos expertos argumentan que debería incluirse también a Finlandia e Islandia como parte de Escandinavia,1 2 3 4 5 con lo cual Escandinavia sería un sinónimo de los llamados países nórdicos._"

"_La Scandinavia è una regione geografica e storico-culturale dell'Europa settentrionale. Dal punto di vista geografico la penisola scandinàva (erroneamente detta scandìnava)[1] comprende la Norvegia, la Svezia e parte della Finlandia (l'area nord-occidentale)[2][3]. Il termine Scandinavia viene comunque anche utilizzato impropriamente come sinonimo di "Norden" (in italiano "il Nord"), in senso largo includendo la Danimarca, l'Islanda, nonché i territori autonomi delle isole Åland, le Isole Fær Øer e la Groenlandia_."

"_La Scandinavie (en danois : Skandinavien ; en suédois : Skandinavien ; en norvégien : Skandinavia) est une région historique et culturelle d'Europe du Nord constituée de trois monarchies constitutionnelles, le Danemark, la Norvège et la Suède. Le terme de « Scandinavie » est souvent improprement utilisé pour désigner l'ensemble des pays nordiques, c'est-à-dire en ajoutant aux États précédents la Finlande, l'Islande, les îles Féroé et le Groenland._"

etc.

I'm perfectly fine with the de facto ambiguity, as long as people define what they mean, and also with the Lonely Planet Guide for Scandinavia including Finland, Iceland etc.
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/scandinavia

'Fenno-Scandinavia' btw often doesn't include Denmark, but parts of Northern Russia.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Allow me to add *Erland von Koch*. His Nordic Capriccio is wonderful and his symphonies are well worth knowing.
Also: *Ludvig Irgens-Jensen*. I love his Passacaglia.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I love the Scandinavians, virtually all of them. As a group I think they're the best composers in the world, the most in touch with the contemporary audience, modern enough to be appreciated _now_. I think they're marvelous, talented, focused, dedicated. Here's another mention of Magnus Lindberg, his Violin Concerto that I believe is well worth hearing:


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Magnus Lindberg is one of my favorite composers.

Kalevi Aho, also from Finland. Studied under Rautavaara.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

As far as I am concerned, Finland is Scandinavian. Ditto Estonia. France? Maybe not....

Both countries have been producing musicians of the highest calibre for decades. If your orchestra's conductor ain't a Finn nor an Estonian, you're on dodgy ground!

Too many loves to mention, most already have been. But there's a perfect Symphony from Finland that's not Sibelius, Leevi Madetoja's Third. And there's a whole world of weird and wonderful beauty to discover in the choral music of Veljo Tormis.

Tubin, Saeverud, Merikanto, symphonists of great power. Sallinen, Holmboe, debatably geniuses on an even higher plane.....


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## Alonso (Feb 1, 2019)

For some reason I really like scandinavian symphonies. Here are some of my favorite ones:

Accesible:
Rued Langaard: symphonies 2, 6
Harald Saeverud: symphonies 6, 9
Aullis Salinen: symphonies 1, 3, 5
Einojuhani Rautavaara: symphony 7
Leevi Madetoja: symphony 3
Kalevi Aho: symphony 10

More modern:
Per Norgard: symphonies 3, 6, 7, 8
Sunleif Rasmussen: symphony 1 (this was a big discovery for me! also check out his string quartets)
Fartein Valen: symphonies 3, 4


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## Alonso (Feb 1, 2019)

If Estonia is included, then I'd have to mention the excelent symphonies by Lepo Sumera, especially 2, 4, 5 and 6. Wonderful composer. He develloped a very personal style that integrates features of holy minimalism and aleatoric techniques à la Lutoslawski.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Alonso said:


> If Estonia is included...


If we are allowing Estonia under the 'Scandinavian' umbrella, then I have to give a shout out to a recent discovery, Erkki-Sven Tüür.

Loving his violin concerto and piano concerto. As well as several other pieces I've heard.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'll put in another plug for Niels Gade, especially his two Piano Trios.

And let's not get hung-up over definitions of Scandinavia for musical purposes. Life's too short.


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## Alonso (Feb 1, 2019)

Simon Moon said:


> If we are allowing Estonia under the 'Scandinavian' umbrella, then I have to give a shout out to a recent discovery, Erkki-Sven Tüür.


Yes! Tuur is excellent. I especially like his works from the nineties (his later works are uniformly good as well, but perhaps less immediately recognizable as his). He develloped a kind of post holy minimalism that is quite unique, with influences from the spectralists as well as pop music. I believe he is one of the three greatest composers from Estonia, along with Part and Sumera.

Helena Tulve, Tonu Korvits and Toivo Tulev are very interesting as well.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Lots of kind words about Estonian music. I would say, though, that Estonians consider themselves Nordic/Baltic rather than Scandinavian. :tiphat:


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Alonso said:


> Yes! Tuur is excellent. I especially like his works from the nineties (his later works are uniformly good as well, but perhaps less immediately recognizable as his). He develloped a kind of post holy minimalism that is quite unique, with influences from the spectralists as well as pop music. I believe he is one of the three greatest composers from Estonia, along with Part and Sumera.
> 
> Helena Tulve, Tonu Korvits and Toivo Tulev are very interesting as well.


Tuur used to play keyboards and compose for the prog-rock band, In Spe.


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