# Mozart k.477 - Why does it do what it does to me?



## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

Hello everyone -

This is my first post here and so, if I unwittingly breach any protocols, please advise me of same?

I'm posting as a non-musician; I can't read music, I can't play any instrument. I don't understand chords, melodic structures or all the other bits n' pieces I have seen mentioned elsewhere. If you drew a symbol of a note, I wouldn't be able to name it let alone 'sing' it.

But I love many kinds of music. And I love the music of Mozart, or much of his work, very intensely.

And I don't quite know how or why it does what does to me; and I'd quite like to understand a bit more about that matter.

To concretise: the Adagio from 'Gran Partita' I used to think was the most powerful and evocative and sublime piece of music to my ears; But, now, over the past week, I can't stop listening to k.477.

And it just blows me away. It moves me in a way no other sound ever has. I just don't understand. It makes me cry but I can't finger why. It feels sublime, it feels perfect.

So... I would much appreciate hearing thoughts as to why the specific piece, its shape its structure, its tones...whatever the heck is doing it... moves me so profoundly.

Hope this does not sound too naive, too stupid or too ill-informed or simply inappropriate for this forum to merit comment.

Oh, yeah... for what it's worth I'm a Psychologist! 

But that doesn't help me much on this one.

Thank you for any comments - specifically on K. 477

[ I'd also much appreciate any links to 'reviews' / expert commentary on any aspect of k.477 - not so much to reviews of recordings thereof, but, rather to the work itself. Again, thank you. ]


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Welcome, Violin (I can hardly call you "Sobbing"!). Mozart was the first composer I became acquainted with and I have always (for nearly 60 years) loved and revered his music. I can very much relate to what you say:



> I love the music of Mozart, or much of his work, very intensely.
> 
> And I don't quite know how or why it does what does to me; and I'd quite like to understand a bit more about that matter.


I also never worked out what it is about Mozart's music that makes it _*so*_ special to me and it is that mystery that has me esteeming it just a little higher than the other two "greater than greats" (Bach and Beethoven). I think I know what it is about those other two that makes them so absolutely great but I have never been able to fully understand Mozart's greatness. So, I have no answer concerning the Masonic Funeral Music even though it was one of his first pieces that I got to know (from the Klemperer recording). Sorry.

BTW My first degree was in Psychology but I have never worked in the field as such.


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

Thank you for that kind welcome! And reassurance that I'm not the only psychologist to be so smitten!


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## Caryatid (Mar 28, 2020)

I had to look up what K.477 was! The Masonic Funeral Music, eh? It _is _ a remarkable work - ominous and proto-Romantic.

If you are looking for something similar, the following come to mind:


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Welcome to the forum! I sincerely hope that someday I will be able to experience the same kind of response to Mozart’s music that you do. For right now I have Bach, Brahms, and Sibelius to give me those sensations


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

Caryatid said:


> I had to look up what K.477 was! The Masonic Funeral Music, eh? It _is _ a remarkable work - ominous and proto-Romantic.
> 
> If you are looking for something similar, the following come to mind:


Thanks for those suggestions - the first, rather than Brahms, once I got past the pan-banging for the NHS bit at the beginning [  ] is certainly going to be listened to carefully, by me. Thank you.


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

I wonder, triggered by your 'signature' underneath your post... if that's what it's called, if Mozart was 'mathematical'? Is all great composition based - unwittingly or otherwise - on 'mathematical' principles?

Not only do I know so little about musical 'structures', I know very little about true mathematical 'structures', as opposed to understanding statical principles etc.,

Somewhere I have a copy of, was it 'Godel, Bach and Escher', or some variant thereon; never read it sadly. If I can find it now, maybe I should try to.

What is it about a certain 'structure', or 'tone' that can engage one so, well, almost without one's consent!

I love and truly enjoy and am deeply engaged by Van Morrison, Dylan and others - where lyrics and tone and 'sound theatre' combine to paint powerful images for me. And often move me greatly, in a slightly different way.

But with k. 477 there are no words, no expectations, no context beyond the Masonic reference, no images to shape... but it is the most awesome music I've ever heard. As i say, maybe it's just the lockdown.. but 'something' is special about this masterpiece.

Maybe y question is well-intentioned but 'daft' - akin to asking why a previously unseen statue might catch one by surprise and captivate; or an 'unknown painting' suddenly stop you in your tracks.

But... as I say; I would love to learn as much as I can about this, for me, magical masterpiece.

Thanks for all further comments anyone might kindly make.

Have a safe and pleasing weekend.


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

I think I recently discussed a similar "problem", if you like to read more:
*Indescribable effect of music*


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

DaddyGeorge said:


> I think I recently discussed a similar "problem", if you like to read more:
> *Indescribable effect of music*


Thank you for sharing that thread; that's both interesting and educative - I'm intrigued by Fabulin's comments; I'm sure ( confident) that some 'structural' device is at play in most master-works, such as k.477 and the Gran Partita etc.,

I'd just like someone to try to explain 'which' structural devices - or something else- are triggering such powerful reactions.

I've mused that a Hollywood 'best original score' Oscar winner...Mr. Williams...or some old-time Tin Pan Alley mogul might know the answer, even if I couldn't understand it in 'technical terms.'

But, again thank you! And I still welcome all other comments / thoughts, pointers to reviews / opinions about k.477

If I do not respond immediately to anyone's reply, please don't consider my silence to be rudeness. Thanks to all.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Maybe you will like something from the "Swedish Mozart". J. M. Kraus c minor "Funebre" Symphony.


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

Thank you Alfacharger!

I have just listened to Kraus's symphony. My instant response is that I like it very much and think it very subtle and fine.

I had never heard of JM Kraus and your kind introduction to him prompted me to think how little 'music' one actually ever hears, let alone 'listens' to, relative to how many pieces of wonderful music have ever been recorded and are available to all.

It made me consider, equally, just how many truly wonderful works of art, of literature, of theatre etc., I may never know. [Have you ever wandered around a great art gallery for the first time, perhaps looking to see 'face to face' a particular piece you know be there... only to discover by chance a totally captivating work by an artist you have never heard of?]

I feel like that in relation to classical music. I know so little, have heard so little and listened even less 

I also, provoked by your introduction to Kraus, realised that perhaps what I'm struggling with in trying to 'understand' the effect of the Gran Partita and the Masonic Funeral music, is - in part - my own ability to articulate meaningful questions for experts here to be able to respond to. And that inability to articulate well is perhaps a reflection of the paucity of my 'musical vocabulary': I don't have the appropriate concepts and, thus, nor the words; it would be so much easier, I think, if I were trying to articulate questions about a piece of prose literature, or a painting...

Hope all of the above is notionally boring to all.

'What's going on' in these pieces of music, what's being deployed, to impact so strongly on me?

Also, does anyone know how the k.477 specifically relates to the masonic ritual it was written for?

Again, sincere thanks to all for such kind and stimulating replies - and your patience 

Have a safe and pleasant Sunday!


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## Sobbing Violin (May 9, 2020)

Thanks very much for the Kraus reference - I think it is very fine! I tried sending a longer response, but it has either been lost or moderated out. But, this to say thank you! New name to me, but interesting life it would seem.


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