# Elliott Carter's music is fun ^_^



## Guest (Oct 27, 2016)

I really love to play music on my guitar. One piece which has been the most fun for me to play ever is a little piece called 'Shard' by by the American composer Elliott Carter. What I really love about playing the piece is the rhythmic feel, the asymmetry, the patterns in rhythm and also the sense of tension and release from his use of metric modulation.

Here is a recording I made, it isn't especially good but I had a lot of fun with it:

__
https://soundcloud.com/jessop-maticevski-shumack%2Fshard-by-elliott-carter

Whenever I hear his music I always get a certain urge to move about! I associate his music with fun, quirkiness and joy, when listening or when playing. Sure it's challenging stuff to play, but I find his instrumental writing so expressive. Despite the rather pointillistic style of melodic writing he often employs, there is always a sense of melodic line that permeates his music more than most other composers I can think of.

I wonder, has anyone else here noticed these things as well?

I'm looking forward to your replies


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

Very cool you can join my 1% club, just as long as you like straw.....


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

I don't think he deserves the scrutiny he's getting, it's ridiculous. Good composer! and your performance was flawless!


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm all for chromatic music! However, I really only have one major objection when it comes to composers: what are they doing? I just can't respect technicians. Goethe made a similar point about poets. To me Carter is _merely_ a technician. There is no struggle, no life-blood, no sweat, no humanity! Had he poured himself into his music; had he shared his struggles in the process, perhaps I would be compelled to listen. But with Carter it seems to be the same as linguistic philosophy, puzzles that go nowhere.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Klassic said:


> had he shared his struggles in the process, perhaps I would be compelled to listen.


Perhaps he had no struggles.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Kivimees said:


> Perhaps he had no struggles.


Totally possible, silver spoons do not cultivate bacteria.


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Klassic said:


> Totally possible, silver spoons do not cultivate bacteria.


How well do bacteria cultivate in bile?


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Klassic said:


> To me Carter is _merely_ a technician. There is no struggle, no life-blood, no sweat, no humanity!


I can understand that you may not find much enjoyment in Carter's music or maybe you feel he lacks something that great composers have. You do know that others here and elsewhere view Carter as very good to great. Do you think those people believe that there "is no struggle, no life-blood, no sweat, no humanity" in his music?

How would you make the argument that Carter's music lacks these characteristics to those who believe he's a good to great composer?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Kivimees said:


> Perhaps he had no struggles.


Perhaps he was not the bleeding heart variety? Music that expresses music is just as valid as the so called romance and struggle that some listeners crave or imagine.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I find a certain nostalgia in some of Carter's more neo-classical works, and an emotional intensity in the string quartets so from my experience Carter's music expresses more than just music itself. 

For the record I don't think these things are purely subjective, but partially.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

mmsbls said:


> I can understand that you may not find much enjoyment in Carter's music or maybe you feel he lacks something that great composers have. You do know that others here and elsewhere view Carter as very good to great. Do you think those people believe that there "is no struggle, no life-blood, no sweat, no humanity" in his music?
> 
> How would you make the argument that Carter's music lacks these characteristics to those who believe he's a good to great composer?


mmsbls, my friend, I don't know. Your point is well taken. I admit, others may indeed find all these things in his music. Although, I think there is something to the claim that Carter was a cold technician, academic, theoretician. Surely there is such a thing as _merely_ technical music? (also I am not saying that mere technicality cannot be beautiful). At the end of the day I fully confess, all I have said is that Carter is not to my taste.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

jms said:


> Elliott Carter's music is fun


so what? isn't there already too much fun? still even more of it?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Zhdanov said:


> so what? isn't there already too much fun? still even more of it?


The truth may be told.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Klassic said:


> I'm all for chromatic music! However, I really only have one major objection when it comes to composers: what are they doing? I just can't respect technicians. Goethe made a similar point about poets. To me Carter is _merely_ a technician. There is no struggle, no life-blood, no sweat, no humanity! Had he poured himself into his music; had he shared his struggles in the process, perhaps I would be compelled to listen. But with Carter it seems to be the same as linguistic philosophy, puzzles that go nowhere.


The name "Bach" for some reason popped into my mind.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> The name "Bach" for some reason popped into my mind.


As it did mine, but Bach was able to express deep emotion in his music. Maybe this was on accident, but it happened. Maybe Carter was not so lucky.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Klassic said:


> As it did mine, but Bach was able to express deep emotion in his music. Maybe this was on accident, but it happened. Maybe Carter was not so lucky.


Maybe Bach and Carter expressed the same levels of emotion in their music, and maybe some people only spot them in one composer but not the other.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> Maybe Bach and Carter expressed the same levels of emotion in their music, and maybe some people only spot them in one composer but not the other.


I think your understanding here is probably closest to the truth. I often find emotional relief in modern music. I just haven't been able to find this in Carter. But the point is that I find emotion in something that many people consider to be _merely_ intellectual.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

The main problem with Carter, in my opinion, is that he's not Tchaikovsky.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I think Carter meant his music to be expressive. It comes through in this interview:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

isorhythm said:


> I think Carter meant his music to be expressive. It comes through in this interview:


Nice Vid, interesting to see Elliot instructing the Cellist


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

isorhythm said:


> I think Carter meant his music to be expressive. It comes through in this interview:


What an amazing interview.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm really enjoying the clarinet concerto/symphonia disc I picked up for .96 cents!

The symphonia is highly expressive. Carter composed it in his late 80s.


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

This banning is getting a habit and a nuisance. How does one communicate with all these people banned? It comes across as if some Deus ex machina is at work here because I never know why someone is banned. Also there has not been one person banned of which I ever read a post that shocked me. Maybe the posts are deleted, before I read them, I don't know. I feel stupid nevertheless.

If I'd accept all this banning without thinking about it I would have a world view in which I'd think of many TC members and Classical Music lovers as criminals that are rightly put in jail by TC-authority for a short or lifetime sentence. I don't.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

starthrower said:


> I'm really enjoying the clarinet concerto/symphonia disc I picked up for .96 cents!
> 
> The symphonia is highly expressive. Carter composed it in his late 80s.


I like this piece. It doesn't sound as jarring as some of the other music I've heard of him. I like when
you can ride the energy of something that might sound "chaotic" at times, instead of it seeming to come
at you like some segment of a Hitchcock movie.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Some of his later music has more space, and is not so overly dense. The last two CDs I picked up are the ones I enjoy the most. The DG recording above, and vol 7 on the Bridge label.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Casebearer said:


> This banning is getting a habit and a nuisance. How does one communicate with all these people banned? It comes across as if some Deus ex machina is at work here because I never know why someone is banned. Also there has not been one person banned of which I ever read a post that shocked me. Maybe the posts are deleted, before I read them, I don't know. I feel stupid nevertheless.
> 
> If I'd accept all this banning without thinking about it I would have a world view in which I'd think of many TC members and Classical Music lovers as criminals that are rightly put in jail by TC-authority for a short or lifetime sentence. I don't.


Except for spam and porn, nobody gets banned for just one post. A simple infraction lasts from 2 to 6 months. If somebody gets temporarily banned, that means they have had 3 or 4 infractions within 2 or 3 months. It also means that they will also have had a warning as well. Not every report results in an infraction. That means that there have probably been several instances where people were offended but the moderators have taken no action.

We never discuss exactly why somebody got banned because it would involve discussing a variety of posts and breaching both the privacy of the member concerned and also involve rehashing insults to other people.

Posts are deleted for a variety of reasons. Even if you are not offended other members may be.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

If you don't like modern music and have nothing intelligent to say, please stay off threads on modern music. Some posts (including some which were off topic) have been removed.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Thanks*



Taggart said:


> If you don't like modern music and have nothing intelligent to say, please stay off threads on modern music. Some posts (including some which were off topic) have been removed.


Thanks. I have noticed that the moderators have on occasion recently taken stands in some threads. I think that this is good and may lead to improving the atmosphere here.

Note: You deleted one of my posts and in this situation it was OK. With your post it is no longer needed.


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