# Bruckner, Symphony No. 6



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I just did a survey of recordings for this symphony referred to elsewhere as the "ugly duckling." While not on the same level as Nos. 4, 5, 7, 8 or 9, I would rate it about the same as No. 3 and maybe even higher for the inventiveness of the 1st movement and beauty of the Adagio. The final movement is disappointing in every recording I heard save for one: Furtwangler's thrilling wartime account. Alas, we have no surviving first movement from that one.

Essential Recordings:

*Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (1979) (DG)*

Karajan and the Berliners offer an outstanding version in excellent sound. They are exciting and monumental in the outer movements and especially concentrated and magnetic in a masterful account of the Adagio. The ethereal, homogenous sound world may not appeal to everyone - some will prefer more prominent brass in spots such as you get with Klemperer - but what sets Karajan apart is a seductive elan befitting this symphony.

*Otto Klemperer/New PO (1964) (EMI)*

Klemperer's classic account is luscious and majestic, with excellent playing accentuated by a full, present recording. As usual, his approach is very grounded and yet flexible, so that the Adagio is successfully moving even at a relatively swift tempo.

*Eugen Jochum/Bavarian RSO (1966) (DG)*

Jochum demonstrates his affinity for Bruckner with an interpretation that is affectionately molded as well as bringing added excitement with flexibility of phrasing. The sound has good presence even if not as clear as his slightly less inspired EMI recording.

*Bernard Haitink/Staatskapelle Dresden (2003) (Profil)*

Haitink's reading is disciplined and patiently paced, offering plenty of energy, exquisite attention to detail, and immaculate phrasing. The crystal clear sound will be a bonus for many.

*Sergiu Celibidache/Munich Phil. (1991) (EMI)*

Celibidache delivers a searching, probing performance that aside from a few ill-timed coughs barely registers as a live recording. The outer movements are powerfully shaped, while the measured Adagio is beautifully poignant.

*Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (2nd-4th mov. only, 1942) (Tahra, Music & Arts, Archipel, Andromeda)*

No survey would be complete without mentioning the surviving three movements from Furtwängler's wartime concert. From the passionate nobility and eloquence of the Adagio to the unsurpassed excitement of the Scherzo and Finale, we are unfortunately left wondering what might have been had the first movement been preserved.

Further Listening:

Horst Stein/Vienna PO (1972) (Decca)

Daniel Barenboim/Berlin PO (1994) (Teldec)

Joseph Keilberth/Berlin PO (1963) (Warner/Teldec)

F. Charles Adler/Vienna SO (1952) (Tahra, Music & Arts)

Herbert Blomstedt/San Francisco SO (1990) (Decca)

Bernard Haitink/Bavarian RSO (2017) (BR Klassik)

Stanislaw Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken RSO (1993) (Arte Nova, Oehms)

Bernard Haitink/Concertgebouw Orch. (1970) (Philips)

Eugen Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden (1978) (EMI)

Heinz Bongartz/Leipzig Gewandhaus Orch. (1964) (Berlin Classics)

Eugen Jochum/Concertgebouw Orch. (1980) (Tahra)

Günter Wand/Munich PO (1999) (Profil)

Daniel Barenboim/Chicago SO (1977) (DG)

Wolfgang Sawallisch/Bavarian St. Orch. (1981) (Orfeo)

Günter Wand/NDR SO (1995) (RCA)

Georg Solti/Chicago SO (1979) (Decca)

Günter Wand/Cologne RSO (1976) (RCA)

Daniel Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin (2010) (DG)

Georg Tintner/Royal Scottish Natl. Orch. (1997) (Naxos)


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

I return to Stein, Celibidache and Skrowaczewski most often (although Karajan is creeping back on me).

I bought the latest Rattle/LSO. I've only played it once and it didn't hit me between the eyes, but many people that I've spoken to say it's the best B6 out there.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Solti/CSO gets top billing for me in B6...thrilling performance, right "'from the edge"....the nervous, jittery " Morse code" figure in the violins sets the tone...Solti/CSO are very aggressive, which works just fine...great scherzo!!
Barenboim's CSO effort is admirable also....beautifully recorded by DG..esp like the finale - the clarity and balance are awesome.


----------



## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

I like Bruckner 6 more than most of his. Definitely not an ugly duckling.
Has anyone paid attention to Kent Nagano with Berlin DSO? I got that randomly some years ago, and quite like it.
Got the Karajan recently, so looking forwards to listening.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Oops, just realize I forgot to add Solti to my "further listening" list.

Still the same issues with Solti for me - unimaginative phrasing and metronomic tempi, like someone who just came out of grad school for conducting - but the Adagio is lovely and the Chicago brass make a thrilling sound.

Barenboim is likewise a little less imaginative in his CSO outing, even though the playing is excellent. I felt the later BPO was a more mature interpretation, while his latest SKB version sounded kinda tired and labored.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

The only 6th I heard and disliked was by the LSO helmed by Sir Colin Davis - I don't expect a full-on blitzkrieg with the 6th but Sir Colin's account seemed both lightweight and uninvolved.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> The only 6th I heard and disliked was by the LSO helmed by Sir Colin Davis - I don't expect a full-on blitzkrieg with the 6th but Sir Colin's account seemed both lightweight and uninvolved.


Yup. I couldn't even add that one to further listening. Just a waste of time.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> Solti/CSO gets top billing for me in B6...thrilling performance, right "'from the edge"....the nervous, jittery " Morse code" figure in the violins sets the tone...Solti/CSO are very aggressive, which works just fine...great scherzo!!
> Barenboim's CSO effort is admirable also....beautifully recorded by DG..esp like the finale - the clarity and balance are awesome.


Great minds - and bassoonists - must think alike. Solti's recording is still - some 40 years after I bought the LP the best. No one, on any label, with any orchestra makes the coda of the first movement as electrifying. It's sensationally exciting. Fabulous playing by the CSO brass with a marvelous Decca recording add that extra oomph.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> Great minds - and bassoonists - must think alike. Solti's recording is still - some 40 years after I bought the LP the best. No one, on any label, with any orchestra makes the coda of the first movement as electrifying. It's sensationally exciting. Fabulous playing by the CSO brass with a marvelous Decca recording add that extra oomph.


yup!! incredible sonic "wallop" on this recording...Solti was certainly a driver, and the CSO was totally compatible and comfortable with that approach....


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Eclectic Al said:


> I like Bruckner 6 more than most of his. Definitely not an ugly duckling.
> Has anyone paid attention to Kent Nagano with Berlin DSO? I got that randomly some years ago, and quite like it.
> Got the Karajan recently, so looking forwards to listening.


I'll check out the Nagano. Thanks


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Great list, Brahmsianhorn! It's almost identical to mine, in fact.

The main difference is I'd rank Skrowaczewski a bit higher, and add Simone Young/Hamburg, which I find superb. Blomstedt/Gewandhaus would be on my list as well. And I don't need Furtwängler (apologies). But I'm totally with you on the others.

Anyone selecting Solti for Bruckner obviously is looking for something totally different than I am. This music is not suposed to just be about blastissimo brass on every forte and mechanically grinding every gooified phrase into the dust. There's a profound sense of large form, of harmonic direction and tonal balance, of the weight of different key areas, of _Gesangsperiode_, and folskiness to the rhythms that Solti just... well... ruins. Solti even manages to ruin orchestral balance, by just letting the CSO brass stomp the orchestra into fragments. This bassoonist frankly does not rate Solti in Bruckner. YMMV.

By the way, Solti was my introduction to Bruckner, and based on that into I was made to think I didn't like Bruckner. I'm very glad I have that music another chance. Interestingly, it was the Karajan/Berlin Sixth that turned me around. It's not perhaps my favorite, but I do really like it.

A dark horse Bruckner 6: Bernstein/NYPO, issued on the big Bernstein/NYPO box of live performances from about 20 years ago. It's remarkably good!


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^^ Yea verily. While Solti didn't ruin Bruckner for me (Karajan did that to me re the 5th), I can't say that he got me enthused, it was Klemperer who really did that. These days my other 'go to' Bruckner conductors are Wand, Schaller, Barbirolli and Giulini (with very positive memories of Giulini with the LAPO.)

P.S. I have memories of a Bruckner 7th with the CSO in Chicago where your description of the brass certainly matched my feelings from that evening.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Becca said:


> P.S. I have memories of a Bruckner 7th with the CSO in Chicago where your description of the brass certainly matched my feelings from that evening.


I heard Solti conduct CSO in B7 @ Carnegie Hall in early 70s...fabulous, amazing performance...the dynamic range was stunning....riveting all the way.
Solti certainly goes for the climaxes, but that works for me, esp in Bruckner and Wagner....he also provides plenty of direction, flow, momentum....so many Bruckner interpretations just fail with me on that count...it becomes too fragmented, static, episodic....puts me to sleep... 
I also need 1st rate brass playing- which for me with Bruckner mainly means the CSO and VPO...different styles and sounds, but they get it right....I can't deal with dull, soggy brass sound, poor balances, unmatched tones or dynamics...those things stick right out for me.


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

My introduction to Bruckner was Haitink/CGB. This has lasted throughout the decades. Nowadays, I listen to Jochum/BRSO/BP and Dresden with equal pleasure. I used to be thrilled by Solti and the brilliance of the CSO brass section but I find myself returning less and less to his recordings. For the 6th, I like Jochum BRSO and the Nagano recordings.


----------



## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Bongartz for me


----------



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I must admit to finding Gunter Wand always reliable with Bruckner. That said I haven’t heard Solti with the 6th symphony so will look to stream this and compare


Correction required, I do have a copy of Bruckner 6 with Solti as part of a Decca box set. I shall therefore dig it out


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

The Bruckner 6th is often ignored and even denigrated, but IMO, in virtually all the Bruckner symphonies, the Adagio movements are the heart of these works and so it is with the 6th. This Adagio holds its own against most of the other Bruckner symphonies. It is one of the few in Sonata form.

Perhaps because being recorded by the budget label Naxos inferred (inaccurately) 'budget' performances, Georg Tintner is almost always ignored in discussions of the Bruckner symphonies. But he was one of the great Bruckner interpreters and IMO, paid more attention to the best of the sometimes many versions of the Bruckner symphonies to record. His recording of the 6th stands along with and often above many other competing conductors. The Adagio is particularly special:


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

DaveM said:


> The Bruckner 6th is often ignored and even denigrated, but IMO, in virtually all the Bruckner symphonies, the Adagio movements are the heart of these works and so it is with the 6th. This Adagio holds its own against most of the other Bruckner symphonies. It is one of the few in Sonata form.
> 
> Perhaps because being recorded by the budget label Naxos inferred (inaccurately) 'budget' performances, Georg Tintner is almost always ignored in discussions of the Bruckner symphonies. But he was one of the great Bruckner interpreters and IMO, paid more attention to the best of the sometimes many versions of the Bruckner symphonies to record. His recording of the 6th stands along with and often above many other competing conductors. The Adagio is particularly special:


Fantastic! Hard to believe this is a New Zealand orchestra, it sounds so Viennese at times. A deeply mysterious engrossing reading. I had heard of him but up to now never listened to a recording. Thanks!


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I love Bruckner's 6th, in my book it's rated as high as Mahler's 2nd and Beethoven's 7th. I prefer it over any of his earlier symphonies (including the _Romantic_). My go-to performance of this thrilling work is Wand/CRSO, but I admit I have little experience with other recordings.


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

DaveM said:


> *The Bruckner 6th is often ignored and even denigrated*, but IMO, in virtually all the Bruckner symphonies, the Adagio movements are the heart of these works and so it is with the 6th. This Adagio holds its own against most of the other Bruckner symphonies. It is one of the few in Sonata form.
> 
> Perhaps because being recorded by the budget label Naxos inferred (inaccurately) 'budget' performances, Georg Tintner is almost always ignored in discussions of the Bruckner symphonies. But he was one of the great Bruckner interpreters and IMO, paid more attention to the best of the sometimes many versions of the Bruckner symphonies to record. His recording of the 6th stands along with and often above many other competing conductors. The Adagio is particularly special:


I think it's such a shame it gets unfairly maligned and ostracized from the rest of the Bruckner repertoire. It's perfectly on par with all the other mature symphonies and has a strong charisma and is filled with some of his most inventive, intricate passages and moving melodies. It's one of my favorite symphonic works and carries a lot of personal significance that's close to my heart - well, the first two movements do, which segues into my next point.

I speculate it gets neglected because the tone/narrative changes after the Adagio. I like the Scherzo and Finale, don't get me wrong, but all the main highlights from this game are over by halftime. The Scherzo is a ton of fun and a scherzo movement's function (in my mind) is to provide some relief from the weightiness of the first two movements. I think the finale is just a bit lacking in profundity and depth, which to be fair is just how I experience it - I still very much like it. But on the same token, it doesn't have to be, you got _plenty_ of profundity and depth from the 1st two movements so some lighter material actually acts as a really nice counterbalance. Just my 2 cents.

I haven't heard this recording before, I'll check it out.


----------



## Sequentia (Nov 23, 2011)

The "ugly duckling" label, often used to pigeonhole Bruckner's 6th Symphony, is one of those myths that need to die but are unlikely to, given people's propensity to blindly accept what "the literature" says, a problem particularly pervasive with composers whose music isn't performed nearly enough, which Bruckner's, being of exceptional harmonic and contrapuntal complexity, certainly is. Its first two movements alone earn it a place next to Bruckner's other great symphonies and offer some of his most appealing themes and refined orchestration, and while the next two are a bit of a let-down, so is the finale of the 7th, yet that has not prevented the later work from being admired and popular.


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern (Jul 29, 2020)

Sequentia said:


> The "ugly duckling" label, often used to pigeonhole Bruckner's 6th Symphony, is one of those myths that need to die but are unlikely to, given people's propensity to blindly accept what "the literature" says, a problem particularly pervasive with composers whose music isn't performed nearly enough, which Bruckner's, being of exceptional harmonic and contrapuntal complexity, certainly is. Its first two movements alone earn it a place next to Bruckner's other great symphonies and offer some of his most appealing themes and refined orchestration, and while the next two are a bit of a let-down, so is the finale of the 7th, yet that has not prevented the later work from being admired and popular.


I agree about the last two movements from No. 6, as per my last post but I for one really like the finale of the 7th. Ending the symphony on a happier note is a good way to close it out IMO, and musically I find it much more engaging than the finale of the 6th. It's all splitting hairs though

I recall reading some either musicologist or conductor compared the finale of Bruckner 7th to that of a Haydn symphony


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I wonder if its 'ugly duckling' status stems partly from the fact that (if the general consensus of critical opinion is to be believed) over the years relatively few performances seem to have done it proper justice compared to the others? For ages it was as if Klemperer's account was nonpareil and that hardly other recordings were even considered. From a playing/conducting perspective does the 6th contain more enigmatic aspects which eluded many a musician's attempts to tease out? As a purely listening experience I for one have never had any issues with it.


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Sequentia said:


> The "ugly duckling" label, often used to pigeonhole Bruckner's 6th Symphony, is one of those myths that need to die but are unlikely to, given people's propensity to blindly accept what "the literature" says, a problem particularly pervasive with composers whose music isn't performed nearly enough, which Bruckner's, being of exceptional harmonic and contrapuntal complexity, certainly is. Its first two movements alone earn it a place next to Bruckner's other great symphonies and offer some of his most appealing themes and refined orchestration, and while the next two are a bit of a let-down, so is the finale of the 7th, yet that has not prevented the later work from being admired and popular.


I'd agree with all of that


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> I wonder if its 'ugly duckling' status stems partly from the fact that (if the general consensus of critical opinion is to be believed) over the years relatively few performances seem to have done it proper justice compared to the others? For ages it was as if Klemperer's account was nonpareil and that hardly other recordings were even considered. From a playing/conducting perspective does the 6th contain more enigmatic aspects which eluded many a musician's attempts to tease out? As a purely listening experience I for one have never had any issues with it.


For some, it still hasn't turned into that beautiful swan (I'm not one of them)


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

You mentioned Stein and Skro in an earlier post, Henry. They are probably the two recordings of the 6th I play the most. I wish Horst Stein could have managed a whole cycle - he made a very satisfactory 2nd as well.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Knorf said:


> By the way, Solti was my introduction to Bruckner, and based on that into I was made to think I didn't like Bruckner. I'm very glad I have that music another chance. Interestingly, it was the Karajan/Berlin Sixth that turned me around. It's not perhaps my favorite, but I do really like it.


Wow, Knorfy, that's so weird. Solti was my intro to Bruckner too and similarly I didn't get it completely either. I never minded the brass but always felt there was something that didn't move me. Like you, the first one that hit with me, properly, was Karajan. He's not my favourite, these days, but I do still like it a lot. I'm totally with you on Stan / Saarbrucken (that slow movement is great) and Simone Young (who is brilliant here).

The BRSO have a fine tradition with this symphony and I love their recordings with Sawallisch, Haitink (cracker) and Jansons. That live Jansons one was one of the last ones to really float my boat. It took me aback a little, as I wasnt expecting much after his very average 6th with the RCO years back. This one is much better though. I need to catch up on some more recent Bruckner releases as everyone seems to be recording Bruckner recently. I'm sure there's a few gems I've not heard yet.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

To clarify, from a certain point of view, I agree that yeah the CSO brass under Solti sounded brilliant, if slightly crass in my opinion for Bruckner. There's just _so much_ more to Bruckner than BRASS BE LOUD NOW, and if you're like Solti and every single phrase is either boring and pointless or it's MORE BRASS NOW LOUDER LOUDER I think you're going to miss out on so much else that the music has to offer. To me, at that time, I thought that Bruckner was basically kind of banal, especially compared to Mahler... (ETA: obviously, I got better.)

For the record, I do think Solti is much better in Mahler, ironically seemingly contrary to what I just wrote. Not my favorite by any stretch, but certainly far from a set of recordings I would deprecate. Solti was, for me, simply a much better Mahler conductor than a Bruckner conductor.

But really the only Solti recordings I think everyone should hear are Bartók and some Wagner. For example, I'm not sure I can name a superior recording of Bartók's _Dance Suite_ than Solti/CSO.


----------



## FastkeinBrahms (Jan 9, 2021)

I participated a bit in the Solti-criticizm here, so I feel obliged to come to his rescue: It's not just his Bartok that stands out. He was also a great opera conductor. His LPO-Figaro is one of the best recordings and I was blown away by a Ballo in Maschera he did in Salzburg when I was young in the early 14th century. Your comment on Mahler is interesting. For years, his CSO recording of the 5th was my favourite, right from the beginning, with its triumphant break into major- an "Also sprach Zarathustra" moment. And this recording still remains a splendid complement to more cerebral competitors such as Gielen.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I don’t think it fair to say that Solti just wanted everything loud, louder, loudest…this hardly does justice to this great conductor…his CSO played with a huge dynamic range – starting out very soft and reaching shattering volume at the peak. The loud was in huge contrast to the soft. Solti definitely aimed for the big climaxes. A great opera conductor, he had a very strong sense of drama, and flow, he does highlight the climaxes…but that’s what the music calls for – esp in Wagner and Bruckner – the tension-release formula is a basic technique, an essential characteristic of their music. And yes, the climaxes are loud, really loud – but why not, with ChicagoSO, Solti had the guns available – why not use them?? He and the orchestra got along extremely well. He knew what he wanted, they delivered.
Solti was a master at building the long line, the long phrase starting soft, slowly building to the big climax…not just Wagner and Bruckner either – try Shostakovich #8/I – wow!! That is some long line with volcanic release!! few other conductors are his equal in this artistry – Toscanini, perhaps, Reiner, Walter, maybe some others. Solti, like Reiner and Toscanini, got a very clean texture from the orchestra…lots of details revealed and brought forth.
Bruckner can really bog down in the wrong hands, it gets slow, lethargic and logy…..it can also become choppy, episodic with Bruckner’s silences and restarts after a big climax….I like how Solti always keeps the momentum, the forward motion, he ties it together….it doesn’t become choppy, with constant restarts, and re-establishment of motion. Momentum is not a function of tempo, fast or slow – it is more of pulse, of phrasing, of direction…static Bruckner, to me, is deadly. I have difficulty staying with it.


----------



## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Must say, I rather like that Solti/B6, but I also like Celi. In Bruckner, the pulse is very different to the tempo. The symphonies can sag at a fast pace, yet can be taut as a string even at Celi-glacial speeds. I think 6 is clearly shaded only by 8, maybe 9, and stands level with 4. The adagio is amongst the most wondrous things Bruckner ever wrote.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't forget a real sleeper among recordings of this wonderful but rather enigmatic symphony - Joseph Keilberth and the Berlin Philharmonic on Teldec . As far as I am concerned, Keilberth nails this symphony , and the Berliners play gorgeously , not to mention top notch analogue sound . 
I'm not sure if this version is easy to find, but even if it isn't, it's well worth looking for .


----------



## Axter (Jan 15, 2020)

Solti/CSO for me too, but on all Bruckner symphs. not just the 6th.


----------



## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

I love Bruckner's 6th. I remember years ago a Bruckner fan told me it wasn't that good, but I got the Solti recording and thought it was great. Nezet Seguin conducted a stunning performance in Montreal about 10 years ago. It's still one of my most memorable concerts. Better than Nelsons in Boston a few years ago. Nagano did it with Montreal back in 2013 and that was solid too, but not as good as YNS.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

GraemeG said:


> The adagio is amongst the most wondrous things Bruckner ever wrote.


And that's what clinches the Karajan for me. His Adagio reminds me of his 70s Strauss tone poem recordings in its ethereal beauty and concentration.


----------



## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^^^
I have been endlessly listening to latest 24/96 HD stream on Tidal of Karajan DG 4-9 (much better sound than CD), they are now even more masterful and revealing such deep inner beauty and reverence, HVK has never done better work than here, the 6th in no way an inferior work when played with such glorious inspiration, this is gods work on earth......








Only blu ray disc is 24/96 resolution

FYI heads up you can get all the great live Sawallisch BRSO Bruckner recordings for Orfeo label in a handy boxset, much cheaper than trying to buy individual releases, I find his 6th to be a masterful account also


----------



## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

> *Wilhelm Furtwängler/Berlin PO (2nd-4th mov. only, 1942) (Tahra, Music & Arts, Archipel, Andromeda)
> 
> No survey would be complete without mentioning the surviving three movements from Furtwängler's wartime concert. From the passionate nobility and eloquence of the Adagio to the unsurpassed excitement of the Scherzo and Finale, we are unfortunately left wondering what might have been had the first movement been preserved.*


Agree with your love for Furtwangler's incomplete live B6, the final two movements are searing massive sonic displays like no other performance, very good sound for its age and great buy on 5CD Music & Arts set......










Special mention for hard to find Eichhorn 5-9 version with Bruckners home town Linz orchestra, these are really good performances Tidal has streaming version available, also older 1950s Rosbaud set a great recent entry......


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Over the last week I have been listening carefully to a small selection of B6 recordings, some that I am already familiar with and a couple that didn't know. I'm not going to go into great detail about my opinions other than as follows (in alphabetic order):

Gielen / SWR Symphony - A very nice Brucknerian discovery, comparable to the Wand performance in that it feels 'just about right'.
Klemperer / New Philharmonia - Remains my favourite. Probably the fastest, especially the adagio, but it certainly doesn't seem that way. The split violins certainly help to unravel the textures.
Schaller / Philharmonie Festiva - Live in the Erbach Abbey. A surprisingly bland interpretation. Other than another sloooow adadgio, left little real impression.
Skrowaczewski / Saarbrucken - After the 1st movement I thought that this would come up on top ... but then that funereal adagio and the last movement which pulls and pushes the tempi to extremes. No thanks.
Wand / Deutsches-Symphonie - Recorded live in the Berlin Philharmonie. A nicely paced performance with excellent sound, tied with Gielen for 2nd place

So Klemperer > Gielen & Wand > Schaller & Skrowaczewski

There are a few that I might still listen to (e.g. Blomstedt, Haitink/BRSO) but 5 is enough B6 for this month!


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Just for giggles, I checked out the timings of the 6th of quite a few performances: The full symphony varied from 51 to 69 minutes (the latter by a Remy Ballot -not familiar with him). The Adagio varied from 15:30 to 22:05, the latter by, wouldn’t you know it (God love him), Celibidache. 

As with a number of the Bruckner symphonies, the 6th took a number of listening for me to fully appreciate it, especially the Adagio. It is the gift that keeps on giving. FWIW, I can’t listen to a mono version of any Bruckner symphony. These are ‘big orchestra sound’ works and the frequent back and forth between the strings on the left and right is so much a part of the enjoyment for me. This is very much at work in the Adagio of the 6th.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

...and I considered ~18 minutes as getting painfully slow 

Regarding the issue of divided strings, my personal feeling (with which Herbert Blomstedt completely agrees :lol: ) is that it is necessary. This was particularly reinforced earlier this evening when listening to Klemperer's 4th with the Bavarian RSO. If you get a chance, listen to the first 5 minutes of the 1st movement and notice just how much more detail you can hear.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Becca said:


> ...and I considered ~18 minutes as getting painfully slow
> 
> Regarding the issue of divided strings, my personal feeling (with which Herbert Blomstedt completely agrees :lol: ) is that it is necessary. This was particularly reinforced earlier this evening when listening to Klemperer's 4th with the Bavarian RSO. If you get a chance, listen to the first 5 minutes of the 1st movement and notice just how much more detail you can hear.


Did just that. The strings left and right, back and forth at 2-4 minutes is quite wonderful. It's hard to believe that Bruckner would have wanted it any other way. Would be lost if the 2nd violins were in the right (our left) with the 1st violins. And obviously lost recorded in mono.

Very interesting Blomstedt interview. I didn't know the history of the right-left 1st/2nd violins issue. Thanks for that.


----------



## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

Becca said:


> ...and I considered ~18 minutes as getting painfully slow


Completely agree on divided strings.
In Robert Simpson's Essence of Bruckner he says that the Adagio of the 6th will stand the slowest tempo the conductor dares, moreso than any of the later works, and I like that Celi makes it happen.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

This thread is hitting me in the wallet. Because of it, I’ve just bought a 3rd Bruckner 6th. Having seen the ‘record’ length of the Celbidache version of the Adagio, I had to add it to my collection. I get many works like this from Presto Music these days as flac downloads. They have a great library.

As per the above post, the Bruckner 6th Adagio tolerates the length just fine. The production is excellent. It is a 1991 live performance, but you would never know it. I don’t know how the engineers manage to handle audience noise, coughs and whatnot.

So, what could be better than a 15 minute Bruckner 6th Adagio? Seven more minutes of it.


----------



## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

When I listened to the complete Bruckner Orchester Linz cycle under Dennis Russell Davies, I thought that this was an orchestra that was able to play Bruckner in great form. They just needed a different conductor.

This recording of the No.6, the one that kicks off a supposedly rushed and hurried complete-versions Bruckner cycle, proves me right so far, but I'm still not going to call it something I don't know if it is. This recording is blowing me away. Recording-wise, it goes against the trend of crystaline and unpersonalistic modern trend. It literally sounds vintage because of the over-depth applied to the bass instruments, and less clear in the brass and horns on purpose so the general string section sounded louder. It has been recorded in a studio room. Not resonant at all. I love it but you may not. The conducting is youthful, mildly fast and propulsive. The Majestoso was outstanding. It sounded like from another era. I'm now very hopeful for this cycle but I would be careful and wait for very different symphonies of the likes of No.2, No.5 or No.8. It's not going to be a pristine and balanced approach that so many, like Nelsons or Jansons, fancy these days.










I also listened recently to the Skrowaczewski recording I once had as one of the best ever recorded. It didn't blow me away but it was a certainly great recording. I don't really like the cycle so I may get it if the CD gets cheaper.

I will update the post if there's anything relevant to say about the Juanjo Mena recording for the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra on Chandos.


----------



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (1979) (DG)
Sergiu Celibidache/Munich Phil. (1991) (EMI)

These two are my favorites, period. I have not heard a better version yet.


----------



## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

Anyone heard or have thoughts about Dohnanyi/Cleveland in the 6th but he did do 3 through 9. Dohnanyi has been mentioned in some of the other Bruckner threads. I have all of them because I like Cleveland and I like all of them. Of course it’s NLA and you had to buy them quickly when released. I got a Dohnanyi/Cleveland/Mahler,Bruckner box. The Mahler is forgettable but I do like the 5th and I think Dohnanyi was infinitely better at Bruckner. I have the Sixth as a separate release. I feel that Dohnanyi does not try to go the super-spiritual mode. The Sound engineering is excellent. I don’t think this has been brought up but I remember reading that the melody of the first movement was the basis of the hit song,movie theme,,,,,Born Free. At the minimum there is some similarity.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

FrankinUsa said:


> Anyone heard or have thoughts about Dohnanyi/Cleveland in the 6th but he did do 3 through 9. Dohnanyi has been mentioned in some of the other Bruckner threads. I have all of them because I like Cleveland and I like all of them. Of course it's NLA and you had to buy them quickly when released. I got a Dohnanyi/Cleveland/Mahler,Bruckner box. The Mahler is forgettable but I do like the 5th and I think Dohnanyi was infinitely better at Bruckner. I have the Sixth as a separate release. I feel that Dohnanyi does not try to go the super-spiritual mode. The Sound engineering is excellent. I don't think this has been brought up but I remember reading that the melody of the first movement was the basis of the hit song,movie theme,,,,,Born Free. At the minimum there is some similarity.


Dohnanyi's Bruckner 6 is excellent. I thought I'd mentioned it earlier in the thread. It's vibrant and very well recorded.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I can totally see Dohnányi being good in Bruckner. I'll have to give some of it a listen.

A Bruckner 6 that impressed me mightily in recent years was Simone Young's. I probably mentioned it earlier, don't remember. Other faves for me include Klemperer, Karajan, and Skrowaczewski. Oddly enough, it's one of the few Celibidache Bruckners I kind of like. Not rate particularly highly, mind you, but like.

Here's a dark horse Bruckner 6: there's a Bernstein/NYPO Bruckner 6 in a memorial box set of live recordings issued by the NYPO that I was impressed with.

Found it. It's worth a listen, I think. It's on the brash side, but I think effectively so. Otherwise, Bernsteinisms are restrained. It has good direction and momentum, very little to zero incongruous indulgence.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Highly underrated, beautiful playing and sound


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Mention has been made of a newly released recording with Juanjo Mena and the BBC Philharmonic which has received some very positive reviews. What is interesting is that it was actually made in 2012 just before a Proms performance of same.

- The slow movement is apparently of Celi length!
- For those unfamiliar with Mena, he was chief conductor of the BBC Philharmonic from 2011 to 2018, quite a long stint for one of the BBC orchestras.


----------



## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

This was the first Bruckner symphony I heard, and its remained my favourite work by him. A lot of Bruckner's music is too heavy for my taste, so he doesn't feature strongly in my collection. 

The 6th is light fare, especially when compared to 8 and 9, which is why I like it. Even though storm clouds gather at times, they are quickly dispelled. I agree with what's been discussed above about the lopsidedness of the work in terms of quality. Bruckner didn't revise this symphony much, so what you hear is basically what you get. 

The first recording I had in my collection was Bavarian/Sawallisch. That was on tape, and in recent years I got VPO/Stein on Eloquence reissue label. I find it to be a fine performance, if not of the same magical quality of the Sawallisch. In any case, the difference in perception is probably more a case of me being nostalgic than anything else.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




----------



## savae (Oct 31, 2021)

My favorites in order are:

01.Keilberth Berlin 1963 Studio (Teldec)
02.Celibidache Munich 1991 Live (iso Sony)
03.Kubelik Bavarian Rso 1984 Live (Meteor)
04.Karajan Berlin 1979 Studio (iso DG)
05.Jochum Bavarian Rso 1966 Studio (iso Tower)
06.Sawallisch Bavarian 1981 Live (Orfeo)
07 Ballot Saint Florian 2016 Live (iso Gramola)
08.Kegel Leipzig 1972 Live (Weitblick)
09.Horst Stein Viena 1972 Studio (Decca)
10.Horenstein London 1961 Studio (Pristine) & Gotenburg 1968 Live (Pristine)
11.Furtwängler Berlin 1943 Live (iso BPHR)


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

The 6th is probably my favorite symphony by anyone ever. It's such a marvel of tight form, rich textures and unforgettable melodies. I always preferred Bruckner's "major key tetralogy" (4, 5, 6 and 7) over the two last ones, I feel Bruckner's language becomes too saturated and fragmented in the 8th and 9th. But I guess that's a minority view.

Fully endorsing the lists by Brahmsianhorn and savea. Good to see Keilberth and Sawallisch being mentioned, those two are probably my favorites among the many good 6th's out there. There's Jochum too of course, slight preference for Dresden over Berlin. I don't like the high-ranked Stein very much, sounds like the VPO on autopilot to me. I love Klemperer in the 4th, and even in that weird sloppy 5th he made in his last years, but his 6th I find a tad stiff, and the adagio too slick and fast. He's one of the few conductors who got the difficult finale exactly right, though. Celi and Karajan don't click with me on sonic and interpretative grounds.

There's one cd that hasn't been mentioned yet:









A very generous offering: not only you get a pretty good performance of the 6th (with a wonderful adagio and finale, the scherzo could be a bit more spirited though) but also probably the best version on disk of Hartmann's wonderful 6th. Not to miss!

One regrets that most of the great conductors from the 40's and 50's never touched the 6th. Furtwängler's account is decapitated and there's no 6th's from Beinum, Abendroth, Schuricht...

But there's a dark horse out there that blew me away when I first listened to it:









Georg-Ludwig Jochum's 6th was not only the first ever complete recording, it's also possibly the best "historic" 6th. This recording (and the equally great 5th he did with the same orchestra) shows that he was just as talented as a Bruckner conductor than his older, much more famous brother. It's a shame that he hasn't been honored with a complete recordings box yet, but the 6th (and the 5th too) can be downloaded at John Berky's site:
https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/February13/
https://www.abruckner.com/downloads/downloadofthemonth/may13/


----------



## savae (Oct 31, 2021)

RobertJTh thank you very much for the pointers to Leitner and G.L. Jochum. The sixth is my second favorite. With Bruckner's most romantic Adagio.Undoubtedly a declaration of love in full rule. There are not many good recordings, unlike the other symphonies. My favorites are (7, 6, 3, 9). Then (4,5,8). And finally 1 and 2.

Leitner's Sixth is wonderfully recorded. Interpretation is very good at transitions from
harmonic blocks, achieving a unitary vision of the movements. Which is not so easy. I like it.
But precisely, Leitner, who was a great Wagnerian, I think he lacks "one more spark of passion, of fire." I don't find it cold, but I lack a bit of passion. Like the passion that can be heard in the live recordings of Sawallisch or Kubelik. By the way, Kubelik also recorded and was a great defender of the
Hartmann's music. Great studio version despite Leitner's.

As there are not many round versions of the sixth, I will remember two names that people have mentioned here: Becca and Knorf have recommended Blomstedt. And Merl and Knorf have also recommended Simone Young. They are two sixths recorded live and digitally with an Extraordinary sound. And masterfully interpreted in the drivers' own style. Blomstedt (Querstand) and Young (OEHMS).

I had not heard Georg-Ludwig Jochum's Sixth. Thanks. I like also. But the recording is not good, at least the version offered by abruckner. And I have the impression that the speed is increased, out of adjustment, not because of the times used by Jochum, but because of the recording techniques used. It would be very interesting to hear this symphony remastered by Pristine.

None of us have mentioned Volkmar Andreae. He is responsible for the first ever recording of the complete set of Bruckner's symphonies. In 1953 with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra (not the Philharmonic). The sixth is splendid. Very fast times like Jochum. I have no problem. I like the tempos of Celibidache and also those of Andreade with very different but satisfactory results. The sounds of the violins of the Adagio are perfectly differentiated despite being Mono. Absolutely compelling. For those who only listen to digital recordings in SACD this will not be a valid option.


----------



## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

I just watched Hurwitz drooling all over the new Markus Poschner / Bruckner Orchester Linz 6th in his latest video.
The clips he played made me think it's one of those over-engineered, artificial sounding recordings where warmth is sacrificed for extreme transparency and clarity of sound, and with some tendency to be original for originality's sake.
But I could be wrong. What do the "Bruckner people" here think about it?


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

What I wish is that people would stop giving any credence at all to that dilettante.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

RobertJTh said:


> over-engineered, artificial sounding recordings where warmth is sacrificed for extreme transparency and clarity of sound


What did you expect from Mr. Warmth?

.


----------



## savae (Oct 31, 2021)

I have not listened to Poschner, and I am in no rush to do so.
It is clear that our age sacrifices art in favor of technique. Instead of putting technique at the service of art. A pure deception.
Nice thread Bruckner Symphony No 4 recordings, Brahmsianhorn!


----------



## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Knorf said:


> What I wish is that people would stop giving any credence at all to that *dilettante*.


A word seldom used these days but very apt


----------



## brunumb (Dec 8, 2017)

dil·et·tante
/ˌdiləˈtänt,diləˈtäntē/

noun: dilettante; plural noun: dilettantes; plural noun: dilettanti

a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.


Get real, people. Not apt at all.


----------



## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Completely apt. He borrows knowledge from others, has very little of his own to contribute, and is in it simply for his own aggrandizement.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

brunumb said:


> dil·et·tante
> /ˌdiləˈtänt,diləˈtäntē/
> 
> noun: dilettante; plural noun: dilettantes; plural noun: dilettanti
> ...


Au contraire. It's entirely apt. It could not be more apt.

Hurwitz is the very perfect example of a dilettante. He has zero real professional credentials in music; he masquerades with raw enthusiasm alternating with biting vitriol, but his knowledge is not scholarly at all. He's rather like a magpie, collecting shiny things without any real understanding of what they are or where they come from. He posts reviews with flagrant factual errors, and especially in his diatribes (but not just those) reveals evidence via erroneous description that he probably never really listened to the recordings all the way through. Hurwitz's "research" consists of cherry-picking bits here and there that he often misunderstands but thinks support his pre-established conclusions; it is flagrant anti-scholarship. He perpetuates many of the most corrosive myths about music and music-making. He confuses his own taste for objectivity.

Really, I could go on, but there already is one annoyingly persistent Hurwitz thread, and Og knows he doesn't need _more_ attention from TC. So I'm bowing out, concerning Hurwitz here, after this post. I recommend reading that thread for substantive and well-backed evidence, posted by people who actually know something about music, of the myriad problems with Hurwitz being by far the top-named and most called upon music critic of all time, as far as TC is concerned. HE DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE.

Anyway, the Sixth Symphony of Bruckner is a far, far, _far_ more interesting and satisfying topic than that dilettante's obtuse ramblings. Let's get back to that.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

^^ The Post of the Month!


----------



## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

RobertJTh said:


> I just watched Hurwitz drooling all over the new Markus Poschner / Bruckner Orchester Linz 6th in his latest video.
> The clips he played made me think it's one of those over-engineered, artificial sounding recordings where warmth is sacrificed for extreme transparency and clarity of sound, and with some tendency to be original for originality's sake.
> But I could be wrong. What do the "Bruckner people" here think about it?
> 
> View attachment 160850


I haven't been so surprised for a modern Bruckner recording in a long time. I need to play it more times but I was thrilled. It still tries to emulate the recording conditions of the analogue era and never makes me forget great recordings like Celibidache, Skrowaczewski, Klemperer or Barenboim.


----------



## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

So many Bruckner threads i miss...
Klemperer, Barenboim(Chicago), Karajan(Berlin), Jochum( DG) would do it for me. Incidentally, there's a Jochum 6th with Concertgebouw( symphonjes 4, 7 and 8 also included in the video) on YT.Really passionate and recently remastered.


----------



## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

Ned Low said:


> So many Bruckner threads i miss...


There are probably too many.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

"Richard Atkinson discusses Anton Bruckner’s obsession with inverting his thematic material, specifically in the prodigious 6th Symphony."


----------

