# Netrebko in Wagner?



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

According to Das Opernglas, Anna Netrebko says that she has set aside the whole of April to master the German language, in readiness for her Wagner debut as Lohengrin’s Elsa. This will be in Dresden with Christian Thielemann conducting.


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

Fortunately, my travel plans do not include Dresden.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I believe Wagner would be very pleased to know people are learning German with the express purpose of performing or enjoying his music


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I understand Elsa is one of Wagner's more lyric roles. How does it compare in this respect with Sieglinde or with Elisabeth in TANNHAUSER?


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Jeffrey Smith said:


> Fortunately, my travel plans do not include Dresden.


You should start a new thread.

"The next Opera you're not going to see."


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Jeffrey Smith said:


> Fortunately, my travel plans do not include Dresden.





Belowpar said:


> You should start a new thread.
> 
> "The next Opera you're not going to see."












................................


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Wow, the "prima donna assoluta" (according to the New York Post) has made her move, after "glorifying" Mozart and Verdi. All the best to Wagner.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

It has been known for years that Netrebko and Beczala were going to be singing this Lohengrin. Spending a lot of time focusing on the language - and the role? - seems like a good idea, but it also seems like it is something that should have been done well before April. The production premieres May 19th!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

She clearly likes a challenge. No reason she shouldn't handle it effectively. Her vocal weight seems suitable, and there's no coloratura. Good luck to her.



Bellinilover said:


> I understand Elsa is one of Wagner's more lyric roles. How does it compare in this respect with Sieglinde or with Elisabeth in TANNHAUSER?


Elsa and Elisabeth are suitable for a strong lyric soprano, but can be sung by a large-voiced singer with good control of dynamics. Sieglinde needs a little more weight and thrust, especially in the middle range, though less than Brunnhilde or Isolde.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Jeffrey Smith said:


> Fortunately, my travel plans do not include Dresden.


UNfortunately my travel plans do not include Dresden.


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Netrebko live in Vienna for a few years? So she should have picked up some of the language. Having last heard her in the summer as Mimi where she was very good despite her voice not being a natural Mimi voice nowadays I actually think that she could be successful. Her voice is more powerful and dramatic than when she first burst onto the scene. My worry would be Beczala. Having heard a recording from Munich recently and again live as Rodolfo last summer I have concerns his vocal stamina can push him through. Saying that, the Semperoper is a small house and is probably the best place to debut the role.

With Thielemann conducting plus Zeppenfeld and Herlitzius in the supporting cast I envy anyone going. It's been easier to get tickets for Bayreuth this year than for this production.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

The whole of April to master German eh? Does she really need an ENTIRE month to learn German? It takes 2000 hours of study to learn German to basic competency, she only needs to study 67 hours per day.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Bellinilover said:


> I understand Elsa is one of Wagner's more lyric roles. How does it compare in this respect with Sieglinde or with Elisabeth in TANNHAUSER?


I think Elsa is Wagner's lightest role by a long shot. Sieglinde and Elisabeth require significantly more "heft".


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I can never see why some people find it necessary to carp at Nebtreko. She's a fine singer. Maybe it's because she's successful and people hate that?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Couchie said:


> The whole of April to master German eh? Does she really need an ENTIRE month to learn German? It takes 2000 hours of study to learn German to basic competency, she only needs to study 67 hours per day.


2000 hours?
If your native language is Chinese maybe.
I have heard it takes 400 hours for a Russian speaker maybe 800-1000.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Couchie said:


> I think Elsa is Wagner's lightest role by a long shot. Sieglinde and Elisabeth require significantly more "heft".


Except for Eva.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'd think she was much more suited to Elsa than Norma, which she is supposed to be singing at the Met soon.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Couchie said:


> The whole of April to master German eh? Does she really need an ENTIRE month to learn German? It takes 2000 hours of study to learn German to basic competency, she only needs to study 67 hours per day.


Well, but she doesn't need to be able to speak _conversational_ German so much as she needs to learn German pronunciation and the words in her role. I'm not an opera singer, but it seems to me that learning a foreign language for the purpose of singing opera is a bit different from learning a foreign language for the purpose of, say, living in a foreign country.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Probably not the exact right voice for the role - Elsa is ideally very bright, clear, silvery, girlish. Ideal proponents for the role have been Schwarzkopf, Janowitz, Grummer, Muller. At least of what I've heard of Netrebko recently, her voice is darker and richer than most Elsas.

Still, Thielemann's Lohengrin with Netrebko and Beczala? I'd like to hear that.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Bellinilover said:


> I'm not an opera singer, but it seems to me that learning a foreign language for the purpose of singing opera is a bit different from learning a foreign language for the purpose of, say, living in a foreign country.


It probably is. And interestingly even most famous Wagnerian singers like Birgit Nilsson or Gwyneth Jones could speak German more or less fluently in a conversation but still sang with a noticeable accent.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

jflatter said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Netrebko live in Vienna for a few years? So she should have picked up some of the language.


Netrebko carries an Austrian passport and lives in Vienna so one would hope that she has some ability with the language.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

If you're a good musician and have an ear for languages, know the meaning of the words you're singing, can understand the manner in which they're set to the music, and can pronounce accurately and clearly, you don't need to be able to converse in a language to sing it like a native.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The "lyric" soprano designation can be deceptive. Whether it's Elsa or Cio Cio San, it's good to have some extra heft in the voice to call upon when it's needed. Even Eva is sometimes required to soar over the orchestra (e.g., "O Sachs, mein Freund"), and a light voice is unlikely to make the most of the dramatic moments. Elisabeth Schumann recorded the most gorgeous recording ever of the _Meistersinger_ quintet, but thought the role a bit too heavy for her in the theater. I think the lyric soprano roles in Wagner are best handled by a voice of some size, but capable of fine dynamic control and "float." Elisabeth Grummer was virtually ideal as Eva and Elsa, and along with her purity of tone, control, ease, and crystal-clear diction, which made her a perfect Agathe in _Der Freiscutz_, she had the amplitude for a strong Donna Anna. One of my favorite singers, I confess!

In theory, Netrebko ought to be able to handle Elsa well. I'd worry more about Beczala, who sounded rather strained and clumsy as the Duke in the Met's recent _Rigoletto_. But I guess that's the way it's done: when your voice starts to go, sing Wagner. Poor Richard.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jeffrey Smith said:


> Fortunately, my travel plans do not include Dresden.


Best answer, subtle but killing :lol:


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)




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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


>


Okay, also killing


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

jflatter said:


> With Thielemann conducting plus Zeppenfeld and Herlitzius in the supporting cast I envy anyone going. It's been easier to get tickets for Bayreuth this year than for this production.


It seems like the lady is surviving all the assasins attacks.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


>


I guess that was for the fact that she had an Austrian passport and needs to take lessons in German.
At least that was my reaction.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> If you're a good musician and have an ear for languages, know the meaning of the words you're singing, can understand the manner in which they're set to the music, and can pronounce accurately and clearly, you don't need to be able to converse in a language to sing it like a native.


I heard (eg) Vinay sang Tristan though he was not able to speak German.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Becca said:


> Netrebko carries an Austrian passport and lives in Vienna so one would hope that she has some ability with the language.


If that means we get to hear Elsa with a sweet, nasal Viennese accent, I want a ticket.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Victoria de los Angeles, Eleanor Stebor, and Cheryl Studer all were noted Elsa's and were not Wagnerian Dramatic Sopranos. Netrebko's voice has grown a lot I'm told so it could possibly be a good fit. Will remain to be seen. I like her but she is not on the level of the great divas from the middle of the 20th century IMHO.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Victoria de los Angeles, Eleanor Stebor, and Cheryl Studer all were noted Elsa's and were not Wagnerian Dramatic Sopranos. Netrebko's voice has grown a lot I'm told so it could possibly be a good fit. Will remain to be seen. I like her but she is not on the level of the great divas from the middle of the 20th century IMHO.


Steber's Elsa is my all time favourite :tiphat:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

duplicate post, deleted, sorry


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Sloe said:


> I guess that was for the fact that she had an Austrian passport and needs to take lessons in German.
> At least that was my reaction.


At least she does not kill or rape anybody.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

http://barihunks.blogspot.com/2016/03/nathan-gunn-and-anna-netrebko-to-debut.html Netrebko will be Bruinhilde at the Met in the Ring!!!!!!!!! Interesting.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Seattleoperafan said:


> http://barihunks.blogspot.com/2016/03/nathan-gunn-and-anna-netrebko-to-debut.html Netrebko will be Bruinhilde at the Met in the Ring!!!!!!!!! Interesting.


... further to this story, Placido Domingo is playing Siegfried! ;-)

April Fool's jokes aside, she might do a better job than others have in recent times.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> ... further to this story, Placido Domingo is playing Siegfried! ;-)
> 
> April Fool's jokes aside, she might do a better job than others have in recent times.


No Ring for me that year :devil:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Has anyone heard her in recent years? Has the voice really grown that much in size? It happened to Christine Goerke, so we know voices can grow. I believe Flagstad a much lighter repertoire earlier in her career.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Pardon me while I do this:

HOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOJOTOHO!

I should qualify that by pointing out that almost any Brunnhilde would be more appealing than Deborah Voigt, who should now specialize in the witch in Hansel and Gretel. At least Netrebko has an attractive timbre, and will no doubt give the assignment all she's got. We'll see whether that's enough.

But the part of that article that really got me was _"Nathan Gunn will make his role debut as operas most famous patriarch, portraying a very chiseled Wotan...sources close to Peter Gelb have leaked that Nathan Gunn will be shirtless for the majority of the production."_

I know, i know... The web site is called "Barihunks." We can never have too many of those. But shouldn't the valkyries be topless too?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> ... further to this story, Placido Domingo is playing Siegfried! ;-)
> 
> April Fool's jokes aside, she might do a better job than others have in recent times.


No... Domingo is now singing baritone roles so he will be doing Wotan


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> No... Domingo is now singing baritone roles so he will be doing Wotan


Hang on... Fafner is next.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> But shouldn't the valkyries be topless too?


That depends entirely on the cast. Might be a good thing with some, not such a good idea with others


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

interestedin said:


> That depends entirely on the cast. Might be a good thing with some, not such a good idea with others


Let's keep it civil, we've seen enough rubbish on stage lately


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

She's certainly rotund enough to be a Wagnerian soprano now.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Couchie said:


> She's certainly rotund enough to be a Wagnerian soprano now.


Say that to her face


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Say that to her face


When you can no longer squeeze into Violetta's red minidress, it's time to don Brunnhilde's breastplate.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Couchie said:


> When you can no longer squeeze into Violetta's red minidress, it's time to don Brunnhilde's breastplate.


I think the tailors can make dresses in several sizes.


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## alan davis (Oct 16, 2013)

She could park her slippers under my bed any time no matter the size.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Couchie said:


> When you can no longer squeeze into Violetta's red minidress, it's time to don Brunnhilde's breastplate.


Even that dress was too tight


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Sloe said:


> I think the tailors can make dresses in several sizes.


Tell that to Deborah Voigt! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Voigt#2004:_The_.22little_black_dress.22


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Listen to Netrebko's first Elsa:

http://parterre.com/2016/05/22/schwahnsinn/

Next, Sieglinde?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

interestedin said:


> Listen to Netrebko's first Elsa:
> 
> http://parterre.com/2016/05/22/schwahnsinn/
> 
> Next, Sieglinde?


An interesting video. Too bad the translator covered up her comments. Not my sort of Elsa, I suspect: dark, dramatic, and Slavic-sounding, and rather static and conventionally "operatic" in her deportment. I don't see or hear the naive, visionary character expressed in the music. But she may grow into the part.

Sieglinde might suit her better.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> An interesting video. Too bad the translator covered up her comments. Not my sort of Elsa, I suspect: dark, dramatic, and Slavic-sounding, and rather static and conventionally "operatic" in her deportment. I don't see or hear the naive, visionary character expressed in the music. But she may grow into the part.
> 
> Sieglinde might suit her better.


agreed. Netrebko is like Gheorghiu in that regard: everything she sings is "feisty" sounding, regardless of whether or not that fits the character. nothing too terrible though.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> agreed. Netrebko is like Gheorghiu in that regard: everything she sings is "feisty" sounding, regardless of whether or not that fits the character.


Agreed. On that basis, her Isolde will be really something... if/when she ever takes on that rôle.


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