# What is "light classical" to you?



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I don't think I've come much into contact with such music, as I prefer complex symphonic works, be it formal or theatrical, so I have no idea just how large the "genre" of light classical is, or what is generally considered to belong to it.

I wonder where do your borders for this concept (if you use it at all!) lie. 


Einaudi? Johann Strauss Jr.? Some Mozart and Haydn? Opera/film/theater music in "excerpt" or "suite" presentations? Anything that is popular with "too many" people?


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

John Williams's film scores, maybe?


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

no clue.... I see it listed as a category at times on streaming apps. That is about all I know of it.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist said:


> John Williams's film scores, maybe?


If so, it is not my favorite subgenre.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Strauss Waltzes, Satie piano music, some of Mozart chamber music


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Fabulin said:


> I don't think I've come much into contact with such music, as I prefer complex symphonic works, be it formal or theatrical, so I have no idea just how large the "genre" of light classical is, or what is generally considered to belong to it.
> 
> I wonder where do your borders for this concept (if you use it at all!) lie.
> 
> Einaudi? Johann Strauss Jr.? Some Mozart and Haydn? Opera/film/theater music in "excerpt" or "suite" presentations? Anything that is popular with "too many" people?


I suspect you may have nailed it on the head with that last sentence! 

I would think anything that appeared on 'Classics 100' might count. Hence, Polovtsian Dances, Flight of the Bumblebee, Bolero, Hungarian Dances, Toreador March from Carmen and so on.

Bits of symphonies count (but don't expect people to concentrate too long for the whole thing), so just the "opening" to Mozart's 40th. Ditto for concertos, so just the first movement of Tchaikovsky's piano concerto No. 1 and so on.

All the good tunes, none of the boring stuff in between, basically.

If it sounds like I'm being snooty about it, I'm really not: it's a perfectly valid 'gateway drug' to "real" classical music. Guess how I know!


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

My immediate answer was Gilbert and Sullivan. Johan Strauss too. 

Is the William Tell Overture light classical? Probably not Rossini's intention, but having been linked so strongly to popular culture, it probably is now. Same for Rhapsody in Blue and others. What about the music linked to Warner Bros. cartoons?

Edit AbsolutelyBaching's post appeared while I was drafting. I agree with that post.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Reader's Digest had a terrific box of LPs that I had in the '60s called "Festival of Light Classics". Strauss Waltzes, Carmen suites, some Wagner, a little ballet music, 1812...great stuff and not surprisingly found its way into Warner Bros. Looney Tunes. It's music chock full of good tunes, brightly scored and tending toward the non-German world. No counterpoint or fugue here. Here's the entire list and it's good representation of Light Music:
https://www.discogs.com/Various-Festival-Of-Light-Classical-Music/release/2992354


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Elizabethan Serenade by Ronald Binge.(Paintings by Vladimir Volegov)


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

John Foulds was known for being a composer of light classical music. Some of it is absolutely gorgeous, like the two pieces of his op. 48, "April England" and "Isles of Greece".

To those who think that classical music in the twentieth century has produced only dark music, this is a pure explosion of joy:






Or what about this little masterpiece:






probably a good amount of Gerswhin could be defined as light classical music:






or stuff like this (which is funny, because Lord Berners was Stravinsky's favorite british composer)


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## Open Lane (Nov 11, 2015)

To me, light classical is something ambient and best suited as background music. Super market, olive garden etc.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> All the good tunes, none of the boring stuff in between, basically.


So if a composer writes a tune that is "too good", they get relegated to "light classical"? Why?

If they are responsible for bringing in the new audience, shouldn't it be one of the most prestigous positions? Like St. Peter at the gate?


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I'm wondering about the relationship of "light classical" to "pops." Are they the same thing? When I look at the concert programs or recordings of pops orchestras, it seems to me that they could be called "light classical," but I'm not sure everyone would agree. I have pretty clear in my mind what pieces fall under the pops rubric, but I can't define them exactly in terms of features of the music. The main features seem to be familiarity and tunefulness.

I have several CDs of Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops Orchestra that I spin when entertaining or when sipping and chatting with my wife in front of the fire, that kind of thing. They're not the only recordings I play for that kind of occasion; I also play Morton Gould, American Songbook vocal performances, and lounge jazz, but I sometimes find "pops" classical music very suitable.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Fabulin said:


> So if a composer writes a tune that is "too good", they get relegated to "light classical"? Why?
> 
> If they are responsible for bringing in the new audience, shouldn't it be one of the most prestigous positions? Like St. Peter at the gate?


You're making it an all-or-nothing, in-or-out proposition.

It seems to me legitimate that a "serious" composer might pen something that touches a nerve with the public and becomes considered "light classical" accordingly. I think (part of!) Gorecki's third symphony did that a few years back, for example. Conceivably, Ben Britten's War Requiem might count on that score, too... though I think it lacks the easy 'mood' required of true light classical.

I wouldn't think of that as a relegation, anyway: in an age of royalties, being "relegated" in such a way could well be highly profitable.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Light music, according ti Wikipedia..


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> You're making it an all-or-nothing, in-or-out proposition.
> 
> It seems to me legitimate that a "serious" composer might pen something that touches a nerve with the public and becomes considered "light classical" accordingly. I think (part of!) Gorecki's third symphony did that a few years back, for example. Conceivably, Ben Britten's War Requiem might count on that score, too... though I think it lacks the easy 'mood' required of true light classical.
> 
> I wouldn't think of that as a relegation, anyway: in an age of royalties, being "relegated" in such a way could well be highly profitable.


War Requiem being "light classical" is an interesting perspective! I thought requiems would be a prime example of "heavy classical"...


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Fabulin said:


> War Requiem being "light classical" is an interesting perspective! I thought requiems would be a prime example of "heavy classical".


Yeah, I don't think it counts either  It does kind of mean that popularity isn't the _sine qua non_ of light classical, though. Maybe!


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

I don't know what a definition for such a term might be. Perhaps it refers to music that is intended for entertainment. 

Mozart's Divertimenti and some of his Serenades.
Dvorak's Slavonic Dances (great stuff!)
Brahms' Hungarian Dances

It's all good music, just not the heavy lifting one might encounter in long symphonies with sonata-allegro form movements...

If you've ever seen the Vienna Philharmonic's New Year's Concert, then you've heard light classical music.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

SearsPoncho said:


> I don't know what a definition for such a term might be. Perhaps it refers to music that is intended for entertainment.


That's the best definition I've read so far.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

To me light classical is stuff like dances (but not ballet) and marches - basically anything J. Strauss II wrote, as well as pieces like Stravinsky's _Scherzo à la russe _- operettas (such as _Die Fledermaus_ or Gilbert and Sullivan works), and short, not very serious pieces (such as _Sleigh Ride _and other pieces by Leroy Anderson).


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

SearsPoncho said:


> Perhaps it refers to music that is intended for entertainment.





Bulldog said:


> That's the best definition I've read so far.


I'm not sure if there is a cut-and-dry definition, but that could work.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I fail to see how Mozart's divertimentos K.334, K.563 are more "light" than say, Schubert's Trout quintet. The chromaticism of K.334 feels stylistically distinctive and foreshadows his own Haydn quartets:
*[ 1:43 ~ 1:52 ]
[ 3:17 ~ 3:38 ]
[ 7:48 ~ 7:53 ]
[ 8:24 ~ 8:32 ]
[ 9:57 ~ 10:05 ]
[ 25:45 ~ 25:58 ]
[ 27:54 ~ 28:05 ]*


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hammeredklavier said:


> I fail to see how Mozart's divertimentos K.334, K.563 are more "light" than say, Schubert's Trout quintet.


Agreed. Schubert's Trout is so light I can see it floating in the sky.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Fabulin said:


> So if a composer writes a tune that is "too good", they get relegated to "light classical"? Why?
> 
> If they are responsible for bringing in the new audience, shouldn't it be one of the most prestigous positions? Like St. Peter at the gate?


I don't think that's really it; I think more accurately the composer writes something that has a really good tune, but maybe lacks subtlety and depth. Mozart's symphonies are bursting with stunning bel canto melodies, but the subtlety of orchestration and expert use of harmonies and controlled dissonances certainly mean no one relegates them to the realm of light classics.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

BachIsBest said:


> I don't think that's really it; I think more accurately the composer writes something that has a really good tune, but maybe lacks subtlety and depth. Mozart's symphonies are bursting with stunning bel canto melodies, but the subtlety of orchestration and expert use of harmonies and controlled dissonances certainly mean no one relegates them to the realm of light classics.


maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to think to light music as more a matter of character than necessarily a lack of depth. I mean, obviously there's a lot of light music that does not have subtlety and depth, but I don't think that the label of "light music" implies necessarily that .


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Waltzes
Brahms Hungarian Dances
Dvorak Slavonic Dances
Style Galante Divertmenti


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

There are works that have made it into popular culture. There are works that remain underground. There is music you love and music you dislike. This should be based on what actually does it for you, not some meaningless division of "light" vs "real" classical imho.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Light classical can perhaps also mean composers amusing themselves writing less substantial fare than usual - Sibelius with his late miniatures for violin and piano and Rossini with his _Péchés de vieillesse_ salon pieces were the works of composers who were otherwise essentially retired, although Sibelius had also written plenty of other pieces for violin and piano at the beginning of his career.


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## Bill Schuster (Oct 22, 2019)

It is the equivalent of "smooth jazz"; a description that makes me instantly move along. I think of those "classical music 100 greatest hits" collections, where bite sized pieces of larger works, familiar to the general public from movies, cartoons, etc, are cobbled together to form a sort of sound bites album. Also, if it was featured on the "Hooked On Classics" album, it probably fits.


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## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

My cable company provides two CM stations: Classical and light classical.

The only difference between the two is that the latter station plays shorter-length numbers. For example, they both could play a Haydn symphony, but the former would play the entire work, whereas the latter only one movement.


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

Practically everything by Vivaldi, Telemann, Satie and Grieg.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

I think one composer who perfectly sums up light classical is Lehar. Enjoyable to listen to, usually fun, and absolutely minimal substance. Perfect for listening to while I'm working / driving.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Yesterday I was listening after a lot of time to the Nutcracker. Now that to me is the perfect definition of light classical music. It's basically the 19th century model of what Leroy Anderson did in the 20th in his pieces.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Aerobat said:


> I think one composer who perfectly sums up light classical is Lehar. Enjoyable to listen to, usually fun, and absolutely minimal substance.


Check out Lehar's piano sonata - it has some substance and is a compelling work.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2020)

I imagine "light classical" is the sort of music you would listen to during your Airbus/Boeing flight to your annual holiday hell destination; similar to the sort of "light literature" you would read during the interminable hours spent in the departure lounge waiting to board your plane to your holiday hell destination. I suppose it could be a bit like the "light art" ***** you find on biscuit tins and the framed crap you put on your living room walls.


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## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Pyotr said:


> My cable company provides two CM stations: Classical and light classical.
> 
> The only difference between the two is that the latter station plays shorter-length numbers. For example, they both could play a Haydn symphony, but the former would play the entire work, whereas the latter only one movement.


I probably get the same stations. The light classical music isn't necessarily light, just short. They play some full works, but these are quick-moving baroque or early classical works, nothing Romantic (or later) that is heavy and long. Piano pieces would be short works, bon-bons rather than sonatas.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

It can be argued certain contemporary music (ie. Stockhausen's Gesang der junglinge) is also like incidental music of the past in this regard. It's just that its used in films, its applications somewhat differ from those of mainstream classical music.

*[ 18:00 ]*
*[ 18:30 ]*


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2020)

Light classical; there's oxymoron because I wouldn't regard much of it as 'classical'. Better to be called 'light concert music' or 'easy listening'. This is typical of what I'd call 'light' music which I don't regard as 'classical' per se: it was written for film.






(When my mother was young and an accomplished pianist she'd get requests from people to play this "Warsaw Concerto" because 'we love that classical music'. Mother knew the main parts from memory and the folks were enraptured whenever she'd play it!!)

Andre Rieu is the epitome of 'light concert music' for me. The Strauss waltzes have a great deal of skill behind them; indeed Brahms was an admirer of Strauss. The problem for me is the shenanigans that go on with sets and costuming, the audiences clapping and rocking and the frocks; the epitome of kitsch. At least the Wiener Philharmoniker plays this repertoire with dignity, sans flamboyance. It's very annoying when you have to watch the ballet during those pieces, but I can understand the Viennese bragging about their 'assets'.

Anyway, as ever, it's a matter of taste.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2020)

norman bates said:


> Yesterday I was listening after a lot of time to the Nutcracker. Now that to me is the perfect definition of light classical music. It's basically the 19th century model of what Leroy Anderson did in the 20th in his pieces.


I disagree. Tchaikovsky was a fabulous orchestrator who wrote ideal music for the theatre, which was often complex and quite sophisticated. This is the epitome of that moniker from this clever but tortured Russian: his greatest achievement for the theatre, in my opinion. Just 4 minutes of a drone (ostinato in the strings), gentle castinets, brooding winds and a fragrant melody over the top. Perfection!! Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

TalkingHead said:


> I imagine "light classical" is the sort of music you would listen to during your Airbus/Boeing flight to your annual holiday hell destination; similar to the sort of "light literature" you would read during the interminable hours spent in the departure lounge waiting to board your plane to your holiday hell destination. I suppose it could be a bit like the "light art" ***** you find on biscuit tins and the framed crap you put on your living room walls.


I frame my biscuit tins - well, the lids, anyway. That must make me doubly insusceptible to good taste.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> I frame my biscuit tins - well, the lids, anyway. That must make me doubly insusceptible to good taste.


Or perhaps just tinny.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Christabel said:


> Or perhaps just tinny.


I would consider framing a pair of Tracey Emin's stained and torn knickers in the interests of better artistic taste but God knows how much the Tate would consider selling them for. Best stick with the tacky biscuit tin lids - more within my price range...


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> I would consider framing a pair of Tracey Emin's stained and torn knickers in the interests of better artistic taste but God knows how much the Tate would consider selling them for. Best stick with the tacky biscuit tin lids - more within my price range...


It sounds like the Tate is just hoarding stuff!! Tacky biscuit tin lids aren't what they used to be from my recollection; they are thin, rust easily and they don't have the girls on them with the technicolor lipstick, bob and requisite chocolate box mien!!


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

Christabel said:


> I disagree. Tchaikovsky was a fabulous orchestrator who wrote ideal music for the theatre, which was often complex and quite sophisticated.


I I haven't said the opposite. Also, altough it's seen by some as tacky, I think that Leroy Anderson wrote lovely music with a lot of craft in it. But the music of Nutcracker is extremely light in character, fun and super catchy. It could be, exactly as pieces like Sleigh ride, a perfect soundtrack for the Christmas season. 
It's just not the deepest music, but it's perfectly fine as it is.


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## caracalla (Feb 19, 2020)

Aerobat said:


> Perfect for listening to while I'm working / driving.


Quite. And that is a sensible use of light music in the sort of context for which it was usually intended - ie, as a congenial musical backdrop for people who could not be expected to give it their uninterrupted or undivided attention. Subjecting this music to listening strains it was not designed to withstand, and then getting all snobbish about it, is just silly.

As for comparative worth, I would say a beautifully made ham sandwich will always top a 5-star restaurant meal that fails to come off. In all aspects bar pretentiousness.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Christabel said:


> It sounds like the Tate is just hoarding stuff!! _Tacky biscuit tin lids aren't what they used to be from my recollection; they are thin, rust easily and they don't have the girls on them with the technicolor lipstick, bob and requisite chocolate box mien!!_


Is that what they tend to be like? Perhaps I'm getting mixed up with the lids from Quality Street chocolates...










Can't help noticing that the dashing army officer seems to have lost his hand in the lady's muff.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Christabel said:


> I disagree. Tchaikovsky was a fabulous orchestrator who wrote ideal music for the theatre, which was often complex and quite sophisticated. This is the epitome of that moniker from this clever but tortured Russian: his greatest achievement for the theatre, in my opinion. Just 4 minutes of a drone (ostinato in the strings), gentle castinets, brooding winds and a fragrant melody over the top. Perfection!! Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.


You mean tambourine, not castanets, right?


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2020)

adriesba said:


> You mean tambourine, not castanets, right?


Oh well, you could well be right about that. I just thought they sounded like the former.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> Is that what they tend to be like? Perhaps I'm getting mixed up with the lids from Quality Street chocolates...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, they were mainly tins or boxes of chocolates with that descriptor. But I've seen them with the 'technicolor' look and over-saturated, idealized colour. I have one from the 1960s with bright pink ballet slippers on the front and flowers. I'm pretty sure biscuits came in those tins which I later used to put old photographs. The lids rusted shut and you couldn't prize them open for love nor money. Your picture of the soldier and the girl is one such 'technicolor' image, idealized as an assurance of quality!!!

How about this one??!!










And this:


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

^
^

Yes, more pretty in their way.

My apologies, Christabel - I led us into an irrelevant mini-derail when I perhaps shouldn't have, and my _double-entendre_ in post no.47 was probably best left unsaid.

Sorry, folks...


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