# Gilbert and Sullivan



## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Today I listened to _The Mikado_ and _The Pirates of Penzance_ for the first time in a while, and was reminded of how clever and (IMO anyway) funny they are.
Am I the only one who finds G&S amusing? I've heard comments that would suggest that...

(I might also be a bit biased towards G&S - my grandfather often sang the baritone/bass-baritone roles.)


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## anmhe (Feb 10, 2015)

I love Gilbert & Sullivan, and the Mikado especially (It was my third theater experience when I was young).


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Taggart & I love Gilbert & Sullivan. We've been three times now to the International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival, which used to be held in Buxton every August, but has now moved to Harrogate. It's amateur companies but to a high standard, with a couple of visiting professional performances thrown in, over two or three weeks, with adjudication and a trophy at the end. It's a lovely atmosphere, and great fun. 
This is Light Opera or Operetta, but the words are so clever, and some of the music is really lovely.
Not Highbrow, maybe, but so what? Smoked salmon on crackers tastes fab, but who'd be without toast and marmalade?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Shame the site's not working properly. http://www.talkclassical.com/37420-mikado-opera-not.html has some nice links and comments.

Yes some people disparage them, so what? For any good composer, not in the first rank, you'll always find people who don't like them and others who rave about them.

The nice thing about the Gilbert and Sullivan festival is that you get people going who know the operettas well because they've taken part in them. The standard is high and the audience generally enthusiastic and knowledgable.

Great stuff.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

It's OK not to love G&S but for those who do, they provide fizz and mirth and who can have too much of that.

I do feel that you will enjoy them best if English is your first language, the words and music are inseparable and both provide delight. "English" is the key to understanding their work because to my mind the embody so many English attributes. They clearly love the music and theatre they send up and yet they are wary of anything that might be labelled High Art. They take the mikey out of others and also don't take themselves to seriously ("I can whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore" - Major General in Pirates of Penzance.). Yes the tunes are gloriously whistleable and again I think that's a good thing. Much Opera is whistleable and after all Verdi had to keep La Donna e Mobile hidden until the dress rehearsals so that it didn't end up all over town before the first night.

If you enjoy Opera and have a sense of humour I say give them a go, you are only in danger of being entertained.

Many's the time I've sat in an Opera where the principals clamour for action but then keep singing, over and over. I want to cry out "But you're still here"






I wish this whole version was available on Youtube. I admit it's a mile away from Grand Opera and has cast 'stars' in place of singers, but it has real showbiz energy. Next time you listen to an aria sung Sotto Voce or see Gilda being kidnapped, try not to think of this.






PS I wish to make plain: I'm not English:lol:


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Belowpar said:


>


_"With cat-like tread,_ BANG
_Upon our prey we steal._ BANG

Ah, G&S never disappoint.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Gilbert and Sullivan is hit and miss for me.

I enjoy the lyrics and some of the music is very legendary. 

Pirates of Penzance is my fav.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Albert7 said:


> Gilbert and Sullivan is hit and miss for me.
> 
> I enjoy the lyrics and some of the music is very legendary.
> 
> Pirates of Penzance is my fav.


I can't decide between Pirates of Penzance and The Mikado.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

The Mikado is just fab from beginning to end. Whenever I want a good old singalong I'll put that on.

'To sit in solemn silence in a dull, dark dock,
In a pestilential prison, with a lifelong lock,
Awaiting the sensation of a short, sharp shock,
From a cheap and chippy chopper on a big black block'


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

If you enjoy the humor, you might want to check out W. S. Gilbert's verse, collected as _The Bab Ballads_.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Balthazar said:


> If you enjoy the humor, you might want to check out W. S. Gilbert's verse, collected as _The Bab Ballads_.


The Bab Ballads was a favourite book of schoolmates Yip Harburg and Ira Gershwin. If you don't recognise the names look them up and you'll be surprised how many of their lyrics you already know, even if you are only 7 years old ( as long as you have had some proper parenting!

I agee about their singability. When I am faced with a long drive at the end of the day, putting the Mikado on is guaranteed to keep me wide awake. In my case I would never do it with passengers.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Belowpar said:


> It's OK not to love G&S but for those who do, they provide fizz and mirth and who can have too much of that.
> 
> I do feel that you will enjoy them best if English is your first language, the words and music are inseparable and both provide delight. "English" is the key to understanding their work because to my mind the embody so many English attributes. They clearly love the music and theatre they send up and yet they are wary of anything that might be labelled High Art. They take the mikey out of others and also don't take themselves to seriously ("I can whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore" - Major General in Pirates of Penzance.). Yes the tunes are gloriously whistleable and again I think that's a good thing. Much Opera is whistleable and after all Verdi had to keep La Donna e Mobile hidden until the dress rehearsals so that it didn't end up all over town before the first night.
> 
> ...


Celebrating Frederic's birthday today by listening to the Broadway cast album. I was fortunate to have seen it twice, once in Central Park (where this production was originally produced) and opening night (!) on Broadway. (No magic - as I recall I actually got tickets at the half-price booth.)

I love William Elliot's zany orchestration.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

In the 1980s the Stratford Festival in Stratford, Ontario did a series of the G&S operettas which, while they took some liberties, were really delightful and fun. Here are a couple of clips from The Mikado (which is complete on YouTube) and The Gondoliers. Unfortunately the Gondoliers clip is not very good but it still gives an idea of the production.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Love it! Iolanthe's my favourite! The Nightmare Song may be the greatest patter song ever written and the act one finale has enough tunes and jokes to rival Rossini.

N.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Sullivan always wanted to be known for his serious works but I think that with Yeoman of the Guard, he came close to something that will last and last.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Becca said:


> Sullivan always wanted to be known for his serious works but I think that with Yeoman of the Guard, he came close to something that will last and last.


I must say that Sullivan's serious music doesn't take me far beyond "charming" and "tuneful." Operetta is just the place where those qualities find a happy home. Interestingly, Franz Lehar started out writing serious opera but had little success until he turned to operetta, and Johann Strauss's one attempt at opera was a flop. Everybody wants to write the great tragedy or grand symphony or epic novel.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

I really got into them when I was 13 - the mixture of clever lyrics (In the period Socratic / Every dining room was Attic; an attachment a la Plato to a bashful young potato) and good tunes. There are clever patter songs, impressive choruses (the Peers, the Soldiers of the Queen, the Ghosts' High Noon ), elaborate finales (Patience, Ida, Yeomen, Iolanthe) and moments of pure musical beauty (the Mabel/Frederick duet; "I hear the soft note" from Patience).

In a way, they paved the way for opera.

It's easy to forget how good they were, particularly since schools and amateur groups often put on not very good productions, and professional companies do overly clever / jokey stagings (the Pirate King like Jack Sparrow; the Japanese chorus dressed in business suits and carrying briefcases), that don't work. G&S works best if done straight. 

Best? Mikado, which is black comedy - threatened suicides, decapitations, burial alive and boiling in oil. And they call this family entertainment? Patience, Iolanthe and Princess Ida (musically). The Grand Duke.

Utopia Ltd is fairly dreary, apart from the Act 1 finale, which has a lovely soaring melody praising the Joint Stock Companies Act of '62, and "Society has quite forsaken all her wicked courses".


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

G & S is great fun. OK the music isn't exactly profound but Sullivan certainly wrote a good tune and also knew how to write for the voice in such a way it is singable even to amateurs. And of course Gilbert's lyrics are inimitable. Have sung in one of them when at school and have been involved with production of a couple of the operettas. Everyone had a whale of a time. Great fun!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

SimonTemplar said:


> It's easy to forget how good they were, particularly since schools and amateur groups often put on not very good productions, and professional companies do overly clever / jokey stagings (the Pirate King like Jack Sparrow; the Japanese chorus dressed in business suits and carrying briefcases), that don't work. *G&S works best if done straight.
> *
> .


I'd agree in general but would make an exception for the brilliant ENO Mikado produced by Jonathan Miller.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Very interesting, but seems to lean more towards a musical than opera. My dad always talked about the Mikado and the Pirates but I never took the time to really check them out.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Very interesting, but seems to lean more towards a musical than opera. My dad always talked about the Mikado and the Pirates but I never took the time to really check them out.


They're the English equivalent of operetta or opera comique. Sullivan was classically trained - he received a Mendelssohn scholarship , and studied at the Leipzig Conservatoire - and arranged opera scores for piano. The "Savoy operas" show the influence of (or parody) Auber, Bellini, Donizetti, Meyerbeer, Gounod, Offenbach, Verdi, Wagner and Weber, among others.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Love this box, making a miserable day bright again :tiphat:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Very interesting, but seems to lean more towards a musical than opera. My dad always talked about the Mikado and the Pirates but I never took the time to really check them out.


Some of the more operatic moments...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> Some of the more operatic moments...


Simon: 3 and 5 aren't working


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Simon: 3 and 5 aren't working


They work for me. Why aren't they working for you? Are they blocked?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> They work for me. Why aren't they working for you? Are they blocked?


It says: Video not available


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Pugg said:


> It says: Video not available


That sounds like it's a copyright issue!

Try:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

SimonTemplar said:


> That sounds like it's a copyright issue!
> 
> Try:


These are working ! :tiphat:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Pugg said:


> These are working ! :tiphat:


O joy, O rapture unforeseen!


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## gellio (Nov 7, 2013)

Seriously, if you like G & S, you have no taste in music and shouldn't even be allow to post on this forum. Just kidding. I love them. So nice to see a thread about them. I wish more opera houses would perform their works. Yomen is probably my favorite along with Pinafore.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

gellio said:


> Seriously, if you like G & S, you have no taste in music and shouldn't even be allow to post on this forum. Just kidding. I love them. So nice to see a thread about them. I wish more opera houses would perform their works. Yomen is probably my favorite along with Pinafore.


I wonder how the U.K is doing, perhaps the small theatres.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

There is a big festival in Harrogate in August - http://gsfestivals.org/content/2016-programme - covering most of the canon. There is a professional company at the weekends and a range of amateur societies through the week. The audience is a mixture of people who like G&S and people who can sing along and comment enthusiastically on the production.

The professional company also tour - http://gsopera.org/content/tour-dates


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I've just returned from seeing Sasha Regan's All Male *H.M.S. Pinafore* at the Hackney Empire.

Performed as if by a team of sailors on a WWII battle ship, all the female characters were played (and sung in the original keys) by an all male cast, costumes and props just odds and ends they might have found on ship.

There is no orchestra, the only accompaniment being a piano. Singing and acting were uniformly excellent, and I thoroughly enjoyed this take on a G&S classic. I feel sure both would have approved.

More info and tour dates at www.allmalehms,com


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