# Joachim Raff - Symphony No. 5 ("Lenore")



## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

How do you rate this piece?

Suisse Romande Orchestra conducted by Neeme Järvi.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I have no idea why this symphony is highly regarded here on TC - not so good, not so bad.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I love this symphony and have from the first time I heard Bernard Herrmann's recording from about 50 years ago. It so infected my brain that I had the piano 4-hand arrangement in the LIbrary of Congress printed so I could play it with a friend. I bought the then rare and expesive full orchestral score. I've managed to twist conductor's arms to play the march movement in concert (but never the whole work!) and have every recording ever made. Breitkopf and Hartel has a new engraving of the score which I will likely add to the pile. It was good enough for Mahler and Toscanini. Walter Damrosch toured the western states playing it in most stops. Is it a first-rate masterpiece? Not at all, but so what? It's a lot of fun, has great tunes, is gloriously well orchesrated and its absence from our concert halls is most unfortunate. What a nice relief it would be from the endlessly tiresome replaying of the symphonies of Schumann, Mendelssohn, Dvorak, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, and others. Yep! I love this symphony and I'll throw out something that might upset a lot of people: there is NO composer alive today anywhere who could write as well as Raff did, nor could they compose a symphony as good as Lenore.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

That was a fun post mbhaub (is that how you pronounce it?). I discovered Raff recently, but only string quartets, and they were splendid I thought. Want to hear this symphony after the above post.  (...found it on Chandos on Spotify)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Very good, and close to excellent (which I rarely hand out as a score).


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I have again a deja vu, so I think there was a similar thread not long ago. With 5 options I'd have voted for the middle, with 6 I'll grant it a barely good. It's among the better Raff symphonies, but it's a bit too long and the supposedly scary ride with the spectral bridegroom rather tame. I think it would have worked better as a shorter symphonic poem focussing on the spooky visit and catastrophe (but it would probably have been too tame anyway). IIRC my other Raff favorite was "In the Forest" #3, I believe. The "seasons" (8-11) are all four pleasant but rather boring. I gave up on the composer after about 7 of his symphonies, + a few fillers and some chamber music. Pleasant, but to call Raff 2nd rate seems overall generous.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Kreisler jr said:


> ... to call Raff 2nd rate seems overall generous.


On the old Candid LP recording (with a very lousy orchestra) of the Third Symphony (Im Walde) the liner notes writer made such a cutting remark that I've never forgotten it: "Raff's music has been consigned to the dustbin of history for the best reasons." There's no getting around it: most of his symphonies are kind of routine, formulaic and uninspired. Not true though for the Third and FIfth, the last two to go. The others I pretty much never listen to anymore. I did play the Ninth, but it was nothing special at all, either.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> Very good, and close to excellent (which I rarely hand out as a score).


What he said. I rate Raff's symphonies and especially his string quartets. He was a popular composer in his time


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## HansZimmer (11 mo ago)

mbhaub said:


> Yep! I love this symphony and I'll throw out something that might upset a lot of people: there is NO composer alive today anywhere who could write as well as Raff did, nor could they compose a symphony as good as Lenore.


I'm not upset by this statment, but I think that it might be not so wise, because you have to know every single piece of every modern composer to come to this subjective concllusion. Maybe a stement like "I still have to listen to a modern piece that it moves me as much as this one" is more wise.
There is also the fact that the style of classical music has changed and some people (including me) prefer older styles.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

HansZimmer said:


> I'm not upset by this statment, but I think that it might be not so wise, because you have to know every single piece of every modern composer to come to this subjective concllusion. Maybe a stement like "I still have to listen to a modern piece that it moves me as much as this one" is more wise.
> There is also the fact that the style of classical music has changed and some people (including me) prefer older styles.


I understand your point and it's a good one: maybe there are new symphonies being written that people would like but they remain locked away or so obscure that we'll never know. But I do try to like new music; I spend a lot of time and money buying new and newer, modern symphonies on CD and there's just nothing out there worth a damn. They're all so depressing or trying to make some grand, political commentary. Or, they just trying to dazzle the listener with technique. Like so much other art these days, there are very, very few composers who come up to the standards of the masters of the past. Same thing in painting and architecture if you ask me. The old masters not only had a highly developed skill, but a real artistry. Raff, what ever his weaknesses, had a real skill and a technical ability second to none. If he lacked inspiration, genius and artistry, he's still miles ahead of most poseurs out there today.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I voted Excellent. 
My favourite is Hans Stadlmair on Tudor followed by Neeme Järvi on Chandos.


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