# Your favourite recording of Madame Butterfly?



## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Plenty to choose from, with Tebaldi, Callas, Freni, de los Angeles...

What's your favourite Madame Butterfly, and what makes it special?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Depending on your priorities...

If you want real vocal character insight and don't mind the mono recording -
Callas / Gedda / von Karajan / La Scala

A close second with good stereo and Barbirolli in top form -
Scotto / Bergonzi / Barbirolli / Rome Opera


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Becca said:


> Depending on your priorities...
> 
> If you want real vocal character insight and don't mind the mono recording -
> Callas / Gedda / von Karajan / La Scala
> ...


I'd go with these choices.

I also like De Los Angeles in the role, preferably the earlier one with Di Stefano, who is a wonderfully ardent and charming Pinkerton. Bjoerling on the second set is unconscionably stiff, no match for his Rodolfo on the Beecham *La Boheme*.

I imagine most will plump for the Karajan with Freni and Pavarotti. It's absolutely gorgeously played and sung and great if you want a good wallow in lush beautiful sound, but, to my mind, it misses the stark tragedy of the piece. His first recording with Callas is less beautiful but elevates the opera to the realm of true tragedy, on a par with those of Shakespeare and Euripides.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Is anyone familiar with the Tebaldi recording from 1951 with Erede conducting? It was originally on Decca, and later on Naxos. Is the Naxos sound better enough to make any difference? 

I know Tebaldi isn't everyone's taste in this, but I'm a sucker for her voice, especially her early recordings like this one.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> Is anyone familiar with the Tebaldi recording from 1951 with Erede conducting? It was originally on Decca, and later on Naxos. Is the Naxos sound better enough to make any difference?
> 
> I know Tebaldi isn't everyone's taste in this, but I'm a sucker for her voice, especially her early recordings like this one.


I don't know the Erede very well, but the stereo Serafin set has always been well thought of. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid, beautifully though she sings. To my ears, Tebaldi doesn't sound remotely like a young 15 year old girl.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm with Becca and GregMitchell. I grew up with the De Los Angeles/Bjorling, loved it, and never noticed that he was stiff, but I'll take Greg's word for it! In any case the singing from both of them is gorgeous. Callas is so profoundly insightful and makes the fate of Cio Cio San so terribly moving that I can hardly stand to listen to it and haven't for probably two decades.

There's a wonderful old recording from 1939 with Toti dal Monte and Beniamino Gigli. Dal Monte's girlish tone is made for the role, and Gigli is an ideal Pinkerton; they really sound like the young people they're supposed to be. The sound is good for its age. Here's a sample:






God, singers had such character (not to mention technique) back then, didn't they?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> I don't know the Erede very well, but the stereo Serafin set has always been well thought of. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid, beautifully though she sings. To my ears, Tebaldi doesn't sound remotely like a young 15 year old girl.


I would be hugely dissapointed If Cio Cio San sounded like a 15 year old girl.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sloe said:


> I would be hugely dissapointed If Cio Cio San sounded like a 15 year old girl.


Well of course that would be physically impossible, but Tebaldi doesn't suggest for one moment the young child bride. Callas, De Los Angeles, Scotto and Freni are all much better at vocal characterisation.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Look no further, the golden standard for years to come . 
Soloist in their absolute prime, recording second to none.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Rogerx said:


> Look no further, the golden standard for years to come .
> Soloist in their absolute prime, recording second to none.


Incredible oerformance. Interestingly different from the Karajan Ponnelle film with Freni and Domingo, as is his performance with Callas.
Callas with Karajan is remarkable but she always sounds like a diva being a 15 year-old girl whereas Freni sounds the part naturally.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Incredible performance. Interestingly different from the Karajan Ponnelle film with Freni and Domingo, as is his performance with Callas.


Talking of films I watched the French 1995 production of Frederic Mitterand and it's comprehensively better than the Karajan/Ponnelle in terms of cinema and realism - the Asian singers are in fact Asian and the setting is realistic. I enjoyed it. It's on YT - just enter "Madame Butterfly (1995)"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Incredible oerformance. Interestingly different from the Karajan Ponnelle film with Freni and Domingo, as is his performance with Callas.
> Callas with Karajan is remarkable but she always sounds like a diva being a 15 year-old girl whereas Freni sounds the part naturally.


Not to me, nor to many others. Indeed if you compare Tebaldi to Callas, it is Tebaldi who sounds more like the _grande dame_. Callas and Karajan bring us face to face with real tragedy, not just a sad little story about a young geisha who commits hari kari. It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard. I agree that it sounds absolutely gorgeous and Freni is a lovely Butterfly, Pavarotti excellent as Pinkerton, but the Callas, with Karajan's inestimable support, is absolutely shattering, as I believe it should be. Karajan II I can enjoy whilst I'm getting on with something else, simply wallowing in the gorgeous sounds coming from the speakers. Callas (and also Scotto and De Los Angeles) demand attention.

If you don't believe me, then try the late lamented John Steane, reviewing the set for Gramophone. https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/puccini-madama-butterfly-15

That said, given your conception of opera as merely entertainment, I can see why Karajan II would satsify you more.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> Not to me, nor to many others. Indeed if you compare Tebaldi to Callas, it is T*ebaldi who sounds more like the grande dame.* Callas and Karajan bring us face to face with real tragedy, not just a sad little story about a young geisha who commits hari kari. It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard. I agree that it sounds absolutely gorgeous and Freni is a lovely Butterfly, Pavarotti excellent as Pinkerton, but the Callas, with Karajan's inestimable support, is absolutely shattering, as I believe it should be. Karajan II I can enjoy whilst I'm getting on with something else, simply wallowing in the gorgeous sounds coming from the speakers. Callas (and also Scotto and De Los Angeles) demand attention.
> 
> If you don't believe me, then try the late lamented John Steane, reviewing the set for Gramophone. https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/puccini-madama-butterfly-15
> 
> That said, given your conception of opera as merely entertainment, I can see why Karajan II would satsify you more. .


frankly you have first misunderstood me. I said that Callas SOUNDS like a Diva being a 15 year-old, which of course she was. It is of itself quite remarkable, but to me Freni sings the part more naturally. I didn't mention Tebaldi at all. To say that 'It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard' is a pretty ridiculous statement to make when we're dealing with preferences. Of course, I know to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what. I have the Callas and know what I am talking about. Also the Barbirolli and the Erede. Freni moves me more but I know that is a subjective judgment. So is yours on Callas, but you appear to find it difficult to admit. I have no problem whatever with you preferring Callas but please let other people differ without accusing them of 'lazy platitudes'.
If you read John Steane's review of Freni / Karajan you will find a pretty rapturous take on that too: 'Like the [Decca] Boheme, Karajan's Butterfly [with Freni] should become a classic of the gramophone,' he concludes.
I'll ignore your put-down at the end, btw. I'll take it you didn't mean it offensively. All the best!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> Talking of films I watched the French 1995 production of Frederic Mitterand and it's comprehensively better than the Karajan/Ponnelle in terms of cinema and realism - the Asian singers are in fact Asian and the setting is realistic. I enjoyed it. It's on YT - just enter "Madame Butterfly (1995)"


Why should the singers be Asian to be 'authentic? This is theatre. You mean only Spaniards should sing Carmen? Or only French singers Boheme? Or Italians Tosca?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

DavidA said:


> frankly you have first misunderstood me. I said that Callas SOUNDS like a Diva being a 15 year-old, which of course she was. Freni sings the part naturally. I didn't mention Tebaldi at all. To say that 'It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard' is a pretty ridiculous statement to make when we're dealing with preferences. Of course, I know to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what. I have the Callas and know what I am talking about. Freni moves me more but I know that is a subjective judgment.
> If you read John Steane's review of Freni / Karajan you will find a pretty rapturous take on that too: 'Like the [Decca] Boheme, Karajan's Butterfly [with Freni] should become a classic of the gramophone,' he concludes.
> I'll ignore your put-down at the end, btw. I'll take it you didn't mean it offensively.


No I didn't, it was a genuine observation. You have stated on more than one occasion that you view opera as mere entertainment, and that we should not get too worked up about it. Some of us feel differently.

Nor did I misunderstand you at all. I mentioned Tebaldi as a singer who, to my mind, does sound like a diva. My point is that Callas doesn't SOUND like a diva at all. There is absolutely no artifice to her portrayal whatsoever, and miraculously (John Steane's word), she manages to completely inhabit the character of Butterfly. Incidentally, I think it's also a lazy platitude to suggest, as you do, that "to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what".
That to me is the real insult, when you suggest that those of us who appreciate her art have lost all critical facility. How would you feel if I replaced the word Callas with Karajan? Incidentally my favourite Butterflies are Callas, De Los Angeles, Scotto _and_ Freni, though I didn't mention her name specifically.

Yes, John Steane also praises the second Karajan recording, but, then, so do I. I doubt you will ever hear the score more beautifully and ravishingly played, bathed in spectacular Decca sound. However my _preference_ is for the first, when he makes sure the performance centres on Butterfly rather than himself and the orchestra. Incidentally, you should note that Steane's review of the Callas Butterfly was written _after_ his review of the Decca recording, which he references in his review.

I have both Karajan recordings and I know what I'm talking about.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Why should the singers be Asian to be 'authentic? This is theatre. You mean only Spaniards should sing Carmen? Or only French singers Boheme? Or Italians Tosca?


It's not theatre, it's a film. A visual piece of art. OK - the singers sing, which is what I take it you are referring to. But again - it's a film and that has a different set of aesthetic demands. Same with the film of Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk which is far better just as a film, even though in that case the actors don't sing their parts.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Great opera like MB can hardly be distilled down to one version reference, many great versions come close but have some areas that could be better......

















Tebaldi may not be the very best available butterfly or youngest sounding, but this 58 stereo studio recording captures her in very best voice part of a string of great Tebaldi Puccini recordings for Decca in mid/late 1950s, and Bergonzi (sings in many great versions) may be the best Pinkerton on modern recordings so has to be on any shortlist.............
(Sordello famous for tiff with Callas during MET Lucia performance)

















Moffo RCA 1957 may have the most natural young girl voice and Valletti one of those great old school italian tenors are a memorable couple, but this is almost lost in RCA vaults with the Leontyne Price Butterfly in stereo (also with Leinsdorf) getting the SACD remaster by RCA and all the attention......

55 studio Callas is a great version very strong in 2nd half with darker tragic scences where weight and dramatic power of her voice are vividly used, you can also take advantage of Pristine XR remaster and perhaps someday ars vocalis of EBay will again offer the amazing sounding EMI re-channeled stereo version......


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

My favorite performances of the title role are those by Callas and Tebaldi--I prefer the big voices that cut through Puccini's thick orchestration for this role. Callas's performance is more moving, Tebaldi's is more classically beautiful--textbook perfect singing. Tebaldi/Serafin is in stereo and Callas/Karajan isn't, so that's a reason to prefer one over the other, but I like them both.

I also listen to the Bjorling/De Los Angeles a fair amount, but that's usually when I'm in a Bjorling mood, not in a Butterfly mood. 

Honestly, though, they're all good. This opera has been very lucky on record--I like both Freni recordings, the Scotto, both VDLAs, and can see arguments in favor of all of them. Dal Monte has maybe the worst voice but is maybe the most touching, and is very worth hearing. If you're a Moffo or Price fan, both of their records are very successful and could easily be your favorites. 

But for me, it's Tebaldi or Callas.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> It's not theatre, it's a film. A visual piece of art. OK - the singers sing, which is what I take it you are referring to. But again - it's a film and that has a different set of aesthetic demands. Same with the film of Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk which is far better just as a film, even though in that case the actors don't sing their parts.


Please note that the term 'theatre' in its generic sense can be applied to film as well, which is how I was applying it.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

GregMitchell said:


> No I didn't, it was a genuine observation. You have stated on more than one occasion that you view opera as mere entertainment, and that we should not get too worked up about it. Some of us feel differently.
> 
> Nor did I misunderstand you at all. I mentioned Tebaldi as a singer who, to my mind, does sound like a diva. My point is that Callas doesn't SOUND like a diva at all. There is absolutely no artifice to her portrayal whatsoever, and miraculously (John Steane's word), she manages to completely inhabit the character of Butterfly. Incidentally, I think it's also a lazy platitude to suggest, as you do, that "to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what".
> That to me is the real insult, when you suggest that those of us who appreciate her art have lost all critical facility. How would you feel if I replaced the word Callas with Karajan? Incidentally my favourite Butterflies are Callas, De Los Angeles, Scotto _and_ Freni, though I didn't mention her name specifically.
> ...


Opera for me is a pastime - taking it seriously ruins the enjoyment. I let the artists take it seriously and I sit back and enjoy. Surely no crime? Please note that the OP has asked the question, "What is your FAVOURITE recording" and if I say Freni with Karajan it is not a lazy platitude but what I like. It's also not a 'lazy platitude' (whatever that means) to suggest that "to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what" as it is merely an observation, coming from what people have written here. I have no problem with that. it is not an insult because you yourself constantly confirm the point yourself - you appreciate Callas' art above all others. Isn't that what you're saying? I have no problem with it at all but please allow others to differ in their preferences. 
And when it comes to the suggestion of people losing their critical faculty, that surely was your initial implication - that those of us who made Freni / Karajan as the 'gold standard' were indulging in 'lazy platitudes'. BTW I also have both recordings and know what I am talking about - which is my favourite, which is the question asked by the OP


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Incidentally, I think it's also a lazy platitude to suggest, as you do, that "to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what".
> That to me is the real insult, when you suggest that those of us who appreciate her art have lost all critical facility. How would you feel if I replaced the word Callas with Karajan? Incidentally my favourite Butterflies are Callas, De Los Angeles, Scotto _and_ Freni, though I didn't mention her name specifically.


Not to take David's side, but you and the other Callas fans picked literally every Callas recording for the most recommended recordings list. There were Callas fans saying things like they hadn't listened to the Callas recording in question but since Callas had a recording, they were picking it. And moreover, evinced pleasure and satisfaction in Callas's "wins" in that thread as if she was a sports team or political candidate you were rooting for.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

les24preludes said:


> Talking of films I watched the French 1995 production of Frederic Mitterand and it's comprehensively better than the Karajan/Ponnelle in terms of cinema and realism - the Asian singers are in fact Asian and the setting is realistic. I enjoyed it. It's on YT - just enter "Madame Butterfly (1995)"


Except that Asian Cio-Cio Sans are far from unique but on the contrary very common and Ying Huang is not so enjoyable. If only they could have cast Yoko Watanabe who at that time was at the peak of her career when they wanted to make a Madama Butterfly for the eternety. By the way I think the too early death of the real Japananese girl Yoko Watanabe is an infinite times much sader than the fake death of the made up Cio-Cio San  who resurrects with every performance. I prefer Hui He when it come to Chinese Cio-Cio Sans. The reason why there are fewer Asian Suzukis is probably because there is a big risk that Cio-Cio San would look like she was Suzukis mother. My personal favourite Butterfly is Saekyung Rim that for me is the only Cio-Cio San that really moves me.

In all fairness even if I think a 51 year old Yasuko Hayashi was the least authentic Asian Cio-Cio San ever I think she was a really good singer that had a singing career that lasted over 40 years and I think a better than Cio-Cio San than Hiromi Omura actually almost as moving as Saekyung Rim.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Please note that the term 'theatre' in its generic sense can be applied to film as well, which is how I was applying it.


I've never heard of "theatre" used to mean film - in what contexts does this happen? I accept that you meant theatre to mean film if you say so, of course.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

howlingfantods said:


> Not to take David's side, but you and the other Callas fans picked literally every Callas recording for the most recommended recordings list. There were Callas fans saying things like they hadn't listened to the Callas recording in question but since Callas had a recording, they were picking it. And moreover, evinced pleasure and satisfaction in Callas's "wins" in that thread as if she was a sports team or political candidate you were rooting for.


Oh here we go again! Now I remember why I left. I'm bowing out of this one.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Oh here we go again! Now I remember why I left. I'm bowing out of this one.


Even if I am personally not a Callas fan I think she makes a really good Cio-Cio San.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

GregMitchell said:


> Oh here we go again! Now I remember why I left. I'm bowing out of this one.


You're a Callas fan, I have no problems with that. People get to be fans of what they are fans of. But it's disingenuous to act offended when David rightly points out that you are a fan and will always pick Callas when you have the option. Or take your ball and go home when I point out that you're being disingenuous.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Even if I am personally not a Callas fan I think she makes a really good Cio-Cio San.


I don't disagree. I picked her and Tebaldi's recordings as my top picks like 5 posts above this one.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Sloe said:


> Asian Cio-Cio Sans are far from unique but on the contrary very common and Ying Huang is not so enjoyable. If only they could have cast Yoko Watanabe who at that time was at the peak of her career when they wanted to make a Madama Butterfly for the eternety.


Thank you for a very informative post. I followed the link to Watanabe and what a good actress she was - at last we see a believable characterisation, thrown into relief by the utterly wooden acting of her Pinkerton. I also followed the Saekung Rim link - thanks! Since the whole opera is about a head to head clash of cultures, it makes a difference - on film or in the theatre - when each culture is properly represented and characterised. I'm still a sucker for Tebaldi purely for her wonderful voice and skill, but if I'm going to watch this as a film I want to see something a lot more realistic.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> I don't disagree. I picked her and Tebaldi's recordings as my top picks like 5 posts above this one.


I think the appeal of that recording is that she sounds less hollow than other recordings.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

les24preludes said:


> Thank you for a very informative post. I followed the link to Watanabe and what a good actress she was - at last we see a believable characterisation, thrown into relief by the utterly wooden acting of her Pinkerton. I also followed the Saekung Rim link - thanks! Since the whole opera is about a head to head clash of cultures, it makes a difference - on film or in the theatre - when each culture is properly represented and characterised. I'm still a sucker for Tebaldi purely for her wonderful voice and skill, but if I'm going to watch this as a film I want to see something a lot more realistic.


Honestly I prefer a wooden Pinkerton otherwise he acts like a complete buffoon and you wonder why Cio-Cio San would fall for such a silly man.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> I've never heard of "theatre" used to mean film - in what contexts does this happen? I accept that you meant theatre to mean film if you say so, of course.


The word theatre comes from the Greek word theáomai: "to see", "to watch", "to observe". I do accept that the most common use of 'theatre' is for live performance but it can obviously apply to film too in a general sense.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

When it comes to Tebaldi, she doesn't sound like a 15 year old girl, but the sheer glory of the voice makes up for it. After all, this is opera. We all know she isn't a Japanese girl who happens to be fluent in Italian!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

howlingfantods said:


> My favorite performances of the title role are those by Callas and Tebaldi--I prefer the big voices that cut through Puccini's thick orchestration for this role. Callas's performance is more moving, Tebaldi's is more classically beautiful--textbook perfect singing. Tebaldi/Serafin is in stereo and Callas/Karajan isn't, so that's a reason to prefer one over the other, but I like them both.
> 
> I also listen to the Bjorling/De Los Angeles a fair amount, but that's usually when I'm in a Bjorling mood, not in a Butterfly mood.
> 
> ...


Quite right. We all have our personal favourites but we should be glad there are so many really fine performances to choose from.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> You're a Callas fan, I have no problems with that. People get to be fans of what they are fans of. But it's disingenuous to act offended when David rightly points out that you are a fan and will always pick Callas when you have the option. Or take your ball and go home when I point out that you're being disingenuous.


In what way is GregMitchell disingenuous? If he chooses Callas performances over those of other sopranos, it shouldn't be assumed that he does so thoughtlessly or reflexively, merely because he's a "Callas fan." His record of insightful reviews of her recordings (and those of others) on this forum should put any such notion to rest. His pointing out that the Freni/Pavarotti/Karajan Butterfly may not be "the golden standard for years to come" (post #9) and saying why he thinks so is hardly an occasion for silly games of tit-for-tat ("but you Callas worshippers blah blah blah..."). Who can blame him for not wanting to pretend that that's a real discussion worth having?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> The word theatre comes from the Greek word theáomai: "to see", "to watch", "to observe". I do accept that the most common use of 'theatre' is for live performance but it can obviously apply to film too in a general sense.


We *do* talk about going to a movie theater. Still, despite the ancient Greeks, it does strike me as a bit odd to speak of film as a form of theatre.

What we need is a lengthy new thread to debate the matter.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Around here we mostly go to the theater to see movies. There are some plays and those singing things too, but they don't do car chases very well.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It all just goes to show that theater is not theatre.


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## davidglasgow (Aug 19, 2017)

Toti dal Monte and Beniamino Gigli for me - terrific performances full of personality. Margaret Sheridan made lovely records as Butterfly as well.

I think Scotto/Bergonzi/Panerai is my preference in stereo. There was a recording of Scotto and Carreras live in Butterfly which was thoroughly enjoyable as well. From memory it was one of her best records and his voice was rarely captured so well on records.

With Freni/Pavarotti I'm not too sure because although by any standards their singing is beautiful, I don't think either is quite in top form there. I'm maybe being too critical but he is not as animated as he was in Boheme with Karajan or as vocally resplendent as in Turandot with Mehta. Either way, he recorded Favorita around then and sounded more relaxed, whereas I found him a little choppy as Pinkerton 

With Freni, I think her Mimi and Manon Lescaut are more vivid characters - even though Manon Lescaut was also just for records. I sense she is trying to make a bigger sound by the last act of Butterfly but as with her Tosca I would prefer a more focused sound.

Licia Albanese was well-known and much-recorded as Butterfly in her time with live recordings and studio excerpts. Can anyone express a preference which of her various recordings is her best?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Deleted. I don't feel strongly enough about this to be carrying this on for more than the couple of posts of space it merited.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

howlingfantods said:


> Deleted. I don't feel strongly enough about this to be carrying this on for more than the couple of posts of space it merited.


I didn't know that was allowed.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

This is my favorite recording of "Madama Butterfly":










Basically, because of two reasons.

First, is that "Butterfly" is one of the operas where the weight of the leading role is more evident. A "Butterfly" without a good Butterfly, will be always lacking, no matter who the other singers are, or how well the orchestra perform. On the other side, a "Butterfly" with a good Butterfly, it will have a rock solid foundation.

Second, Ms. Kabaivanska was magical when singing "Butterfly". She was a tall and pallid Eastern European woman, but she used the music of Puccini, and her talent, to convert into a Japanese teenager in love. I have watched her singing the role in the theater (I mean by that the traditional definition of a building in which operas are given), and it was a very moving experience.

So, I love this performance of "Madama Butterfly", at the Arena di Verona, back in 1983.


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

schigolch said:


> I have watched her singing the role in the theater (I mean by that the traditional definition of a building in which operas are given), and it was a very moving experience.


Can you tell us more about Ms. Kabaivanska's career in Spane?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

schigolch said:


> This is my favorite recording of "Madama Butterfly":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surely too be PC these days she should be Japanese!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Why should the singers be Asian to be 'authentic? This is theatre. You mean only Spaniards should sing Carmen? Or only French singers Boheme? Or Italians Tosca?


If the singers are not authentic enough you can always change the location of the opera or the ethnicity of the characters.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

les24preludes said:


> Thank you for a very informative post. I followed the link to Watanabe and what a good actress she was - at last we see a believable characterisation, thrown into relief by the utterly wooden acting of her Pinkerton. I also followed the Saekung Rim link - thanks! Since the whole opera is about a head to head clash of cultures, it makes a difference - on film or in the theatre - when each culture is properly represented and characterised. I'm still a sucker for Tebaldi purely for her wonderful voice and skill, but if I'm going to watch this as a film I want to see something a lot more realistic.


Opera is when a 46 year old Chinese woman is considered authentic as a 15 year old Japanese girl. You have to compromise or just dub actors like in the film from the fifties. The most authentic Cio-Cio San currently active I think is Mihoko Kinoshita. Her favourite Cio-Cio San is Renata Scotto.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Sloe said:


> Opera is when a 46 year old Chinese woman is considered authentic as a 15 year old Japanese girl. You have to compromise or just dub actors like in the film from the fifties. The most authentic Cio-Cio San currently active I think is Mihoko Kinoshita. Her favourite Cio-Cio San is Renata Scotto.


Opera is also when a US Navy lieutenant sings in fluent Italian in Japan!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

DavidA said:


> Opera is also when a US Navy lieutenant sings in fluent Italian in Japan!


Opera requires "a willing suspension of disbelief," it is said.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Opera requires "a willing suspension of disbelief," it is said.


Absolutely that is why these cries of 'authenticity' from the PC lobby are so ridiculous. Added to the fact that the people on the stage are actors playing a part.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Opera is also when a US Navy lieutenant sings in fluent Italian in Japan!


Or sings in Japanese


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Absolutely that is why these cries of 'authenticity' from the PC lobby are so ridiculous. Added to the fact that the people on the stage are actors playing a part.


Oh, for Heaven's sake, authenticity is a much bigger thing than "PC" and it's very far from ridiculous. Maybe you can't see that, and for sure others disagree with your points of view. In the bigger picture art can be anything it wants to be, which includes the most far out fantasy at one end and the closest authenticity at the other end. Why would you want to make rules about art?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> Oh, for Heaven's sake, authenticity is a much bigger thing than "PC" and it's very far from ridiculous. Maybe you can't see that, and for sure others disagree with your points of view. In the bigger picture art can be anything it wants to be, which includes the most far out fantasy at one end and the closest authenticity at the other end. Why would you want to make rules about art?


I'm not making any rules about art. It's the PC lot and the 'authenticists' who want to make rules about what you should and shouldn't do.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> Surely too be PC these days she should be Japanese!


That's a whole different thread...

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I'm not making any rules about art. It's the PC lot and the 'authenticists' who want to make rules about what you should and shouldn't do.


Weren't you saying that an authentic Turandot needs to be beautiful just the other week?

N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Conte said:


> Weren't you saying that an authentic Turandot needs to be beautiful just the other week?
> 
> N.


I didn't say anything about authenticity as far as I believe. What I did say that in HD some Turandots might have a problem convincing audiences that they are the most beautiful woman in the world!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I didn't say anything about authenticity as far as I believe. What I did say that in HD some Turandots might have a problem convincing audiences that they are the most beautiful woman in the world!


No, I can't be bummed to find it, I'm happy to rely on the memory of myself and others here.

N.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> I'm not making any rules about art. It's the PC lot and the 'authenticists' who want to make rules about what you should and shouldn't do.


It is really nothing new there were Japanese and singers from other Asian countries that that were typecast as Butterfly and also Iris in Puccini´s lifetime. If anything the typecasting has increased at least in USA. Atsuko Azuma sung Butterfly a lot in USA and at the Metropolitan Opera in 1972 but she also sung Violetta, Mimmi, and Nedda. Meanwhile American based singers active today like Yunna Lee and Mihoko Kinoshita only seems to sing Butterfly or Liu in USA. People who make casting in Europe have a bit bigger imagination. Jovita Fuentes was a Filipina soprano that sung Butterfly and Iris a lot in Europe in the twenties and thirties but she also sung other roles among those Salome by request from Richard Strauss himself.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Conte said:


> No, I can't be bummed to find it, I'm happy to rely on the memory of myself and others here.
> 
> N.


You can't be 'bummed' to find it? Must be important then! :lol:

I think to aid your creaking memory (and mine) that the point was rather different - that in these days of HD, singers have to look the part rather more than in the days when they were viewed from the back of an opera house.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> You can't be 'bummed' to find it? Must be important then! :lol:
> 
> I think to aid your creaking memory (and mine) that the point was rather different - that in these days of HD, singers have to look the part rather more than in the days when they were viewed from the back of an opera house.


Just read that Callas before she lost weight turned down singing Butterfly because she thought she was too fat.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I find all the leading versions mentioned to be pretty wonderful and certainly beyond my criticism, but I'm choosing Victoria de los Angeles and Jussi Björling, mainly because of VdlA. I love her voice so much.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I wondered when someone was going to mention the epitome of Cio Cio Sans and finally Sloe said it.
"The most authentic Cio-Cio San currently active I think is Mihoko Kinoshita. Her favourite Cio-Cio San is Renata Scotto."

Renata Scotto's rendition is absolutely heartrending. (followed by Magda Olivero)


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)




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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> You can't be 'bummed' to find it? Must be important then! :lol:
> 
> I think to aid your creaking memory (and mine) that the point was rather different - that in these days of HD, singers have to look the part rather more than in the days when they were viewed from the back of an opera house.


Ah! So Turandot has to be beautiful to look the part, but it doesn't matter if she isn't Chinese or at least Asian?

I can't see the sense here.

N.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The Conte said:


> Ah! So Turandot has to be beautiful to look the part, but it doesn't matter if she isn't Chinese or at least Asian?
> 
> I can't see the sense here.
> 
> N.


You want sense?? :O On TC??? :lol:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

The Conte said:


> Ah! So Turandot has to be beautiful to look the part, but it doesn't matter if she isn't Chinese or at least Asian?
> 
> I can't see the sense here.
> 
> N.


Make up can take care of that


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

Surely there are much more important things - artistry, profundity of sense and music, knowledge of style, ability of incarnating the role and transmitting emotions. Few could do that both on musical and artistic level...


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

*Kabaivanska* is considered the absolute Butterfly in Italy, because of her phenomenal acting ability. *Scotto* was good too, but the singing was often weak... Even *L. Price* made a very good studio registration, also *Freni *with Sinopolli.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Conte said:


> Ah! So Turandot has to be beautiful to look the part, but it doesn't matter if she isn't Chinese or at least Asian?
> 
> I can't see the sense here.
> 
> N.


Well if you can find a beautiful Chinese woman who can sing Turandot, then that will be Nirvana! :lol:

BTW don't you realise that 'sense' and 'opera' don't go together. If they did, opera would not exist!


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

DavidA said:


> Well if you can find a beautiful Chinese woman who can sing Turandot, then that will be Nirvana!


But don't offer to answer her question. (And don't lose your head in pursuing her.)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Itullian said:


> Make up can take care of that


You've never heard the saying about silk purses and sow's ears?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

All this kerfuffle about singers' looks! Most singers look good enough, don't they? Who cares if Turandot is sung by a beautiful Chinese woman? Can she sing "In questa reggia"? If she can sing it like Birgit Nilsson then for three hours she's the most beautiful woman in the world.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Well if you can find a beautiful Chinese woman who can sing Turandot, then that will be Nirvana! :lol:
> 
> BTW don't you realise that 'sense' and 'opera' don't go together. If they did, opera would not exist!


Wang Wei have sung Turandot in Ljubljana, Budapest and Torre del Lago then there are some Korean singers that are active in Europe specialised in singing Turandot the opera is in Italian anyway.

Ir can be said that they staged only 2 operas a year in all of China as late as the nineties so there have not been so much exposure to opera and so many singers. By the time there will come more Chinese singers and some will sing Turandot and some will sing it better and some worse.

I think this version of Turandot have only been performed with Chinese singers:


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> All this kerfuffle about singers' looks! Most singers look good enough, don't they? Who cares if Turandot is sung by a beautiful Chinese woman? Can she sing "In questa reggia"? If she can sing it like Birgit Nilsson then for three hours she's the most beautiful woman in the world.


In theory, yes. I'm not sure I ever found Birgit Nilsson the most beautiful woman in the world, regardless of how much I enjoyed her singing.

But that's just me.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

amfortas said:


> In theory, yes. I'm not sure I ever found Birgit Nilsson the most beautiful woman in the world, regardless of how much I enjoyed her singing.
> 
> But that's just me.


Actually Nilsson was not a bad looking woman in a rather grand, Nordic sort of way. Karajan's description of her as 'Scarpia without make-up' came as much from their fractious relationship than her looks. But people who say singers' looks don't matter are just not living in the modern world. They always did, of course - see the premiere of Traviata was a farce as the soprano was grossly overweight. But now with the advent of HD what someone looks like is far more important than it's ever been. No less a singer than Marilyn Horne has said so. She advises singers that the 'Big Berthas' will have the odds stacked against them in the modern world. Obviously with audio only it doesn't matter. But now we are dealing with some thing very different. Sorry, but this is 2018 not 1918. Both looks and singing count today, like it or not.


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## melodies (Aug 18, 2018)

*Raina Kabaivanska Mme Butterfly un bel di vedremo*


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Certainly some singers are more physically suited to certain roles. I've always thought that Nilsson had the perfect face and voice for a valkyrie. If a creature like her appears before you in a nimbus of light, carrying a shield, and says "Siegmund! Sieh auf mich!", you'd better get your affairs in order. As a friend of mine said, "She _looks_ like a Wagnerian soprano!" In Puccini, though, she was wise to confine herself to Tosca, Minnie and Turandot. Birgit the Butterfly is pretty inconceivable.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

melodies said:


> *Raina Kabaivanska Mme Butterfly un bel di vedremo*


Also from Arena di Verona:






Saekyung Rim have also sung Butterfly at Arena di Verona:






Can be said that the first Pinkerton Giovanni Zenatello had a big role in founding of Arena di Verona:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> All this kerfuffle about singers' looks! Most singers look good enough, don't they? Who cares if Turandot is sung by a beautiful Chinese woman? Can she sing "In questa reggia"? If she can sing it like Birgit Nilsson then for three hours she's the most beautiful woman in the world.


I couldn't agree more. However I realise I made a mistake in expecting sense from some corners of TC!

N.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The Conte said:


> I couldn't agree more. However I realise I made a mistake in expecting sense from some corners of TC!
> 
> N.


If opera wants to survive it has to make sense to a new generation. Some of us have the 'sense' to realise that!

We might want to live in the past but don't expect the upcoming generation with all the wonders of modern technology to. Things are changing whether we like it or not!


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> If opera wants to survive it has to make sense to a new generation. Some of us have the 'sense' to realise that!
> 
> We might want to live in the past but don't expect the upcoming generation with all the wonders of modern technology to. Things are changing whether we like it or not!


I think height matters a lot with castings.
There are not many tall Cio-Cio sans.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> In Puccini, though, she was wise to confine herself to Tosca, Minnie and Turandot. Birgit the Butterfly is pretty inconceivable.


Or just imagine: "Mi Chiamano Mimi . . . "


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

DavidA said:


> If opera wants to survive it has to make sense to a new generation. Some of us have the 'sense' to realise that!
> 
> We might want to live in the past but don't expect the upcoming generation with all the wonders of modern technology to. Things are changing whether we like it or not!


Odd that you say that while you stand on your corner harrumphing about the good old days of blackface. Most younger audiences think one of two things about black/brown/yellowface on European opera singers-- (1) this is offensive, or (2) this looks super stupid.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> Odd that you say that while you stand on your corner harrumphing about the good old days of blackface. Most younger audiences think one of two things about black/brown/yellowface on European opera singers-- (1) this is offensive, or (2) this looks super stupid.


Old days of blackface this was 3 years ago.

And speaking of Madama Butterfly I think Jana Smitkova is really convincing in this German version.

Here is really convincing make up.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Sloe said:


> Old days of blackface this was 3 years ago.
> 
> And speaking of Madama Butterfly I think Jana Smitkova is really convincing in this German version.
> 
> Here is really convincing make up.


Just to be clear, I personally am not of the mind that thinks this sort of stuff is offensive. I do however think these all look super dumb, no offense meant since you seem to like these.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> Just to be clear, I personally am not of the mind that thinks this sort of stuff is offensive. I do however think these all look super dumb, no offense meant since you seem to like these.


The only thing that bothers me is the rocking chair, apparently made for a sumo wrestler.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

howlingfantods said:


> Odd that you say that while you stand on your corner harrumphing about the good old days of blackface. Most younger audiences think one of two things about black/brown/yellowface on European opera singers-- (1) this is offensive, or (2) this looks super stupid.


Pity you don't actually read what I say rather than accusing me of 'harrumphing'. I did say I was not suggesting the 'black and white minstrel show' (which is offensive today) but just saying that an actor wears make-up anyway and why not some tasteful make-up to at least suggest where they are supposed to come from rather than giving in to the PC howling we get from the few? Most younger audiences don't think the way you suggest, btw. The PC brigade make sure they yell so loud that people are taken in by the clamour. The most recent was the stupid clamour over Netrebko wearing dark make-up to play Aida at the Met. These objections are usually made by people with time on their hands who haven't got anything better to do.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Pity you don't actually read what I say rather than accusing me of 'harrumphing'. I did say I was not suggesting the 'black and white minstrel show' (which is offensive today) but just saying that an actor wears make-up anyway and why not some tasteful make-up to at least suggest where they are supposed to come from rather than giving in to the PC howling we get from the few? Most younger audiences don't think the way you suggest, btw. The PC brigade make sure they yell so loud that people are taken in by the clamour. The most recent was the stupid clamour over Netrebko wearing dark make-up to play Aida at the Met. These objections are usually made by people with time on their hands who haven't got anything better to do.


I wasn't aware that Netrebko took any flack for wearing brown makeup in order to look more like the Ethiopian princess that Aida is. This is quite traditional, isn't it? And now it's controversial? Sigh.

I am entirely in your corner on the question of theatrical makeup. Given the increasing number of, for example, Asians on the international opera stage, we could easily end up with a production of Butterfly in which Pinkerton is sung by a short, dark Chinese tenor and Cio Cio San by a tall, blond Norwegian soprano. The idea that a little tasteful pancake and maybe some elevator shoes to decrease such obvious incongruities should be a moral offense perpetuating the racism of minstrel show blackface and insulting short people is ludicrous. Obviously there must be limits to the pursuit of visual authenticity - we can't be painting a black soprano pink and freckled because Isolde was supposed to be Irish - but surely common sense does not recommend abandoning verisimilitude altogether to indulge fashionable sociological/political notions.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I wasn't aware that Netrebko took any flack for wearing brown makeup in order to look more like the Ethiopian princess that Aida is. This is quite traditional, isn't it? And now it's controversial? Sigh.
> 
> I am entirely in your corner on the question of theatrical makeup. Given the increasing number of, for example, Asians on the international opera stage, we could easily end up with a production of Butterfly in which Pinkerton is sung by a short, dark Chinese tenor and Cio Cio San by a tall, blond Norwegian soprano. The idea that a little tasteful pancake and maybe some elevator shoes to decrease such obvious incongruities should be a moral offense perpetuating the racism of minstrel show blackface and insulting short people is ludicrous. Obviously there must be limits to the pursuit of visual authenticity - we can't be painting a black soprano pink and freckled because Isolde was supposed to be Irish - but surely common sense does not recommend abandoning verisimilitude altogether to indulge fashionable sociological/political notions.


Not even tall sopranos that are Asian gets cast as Butterfly they get cast as Turandot.

This is how Pinkerton looks like in Japan.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Wait, was this a whole argument about blackfacing instead of MB recordings while I was absent?!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Granate said:


> Wait, was this a whole argument about blackfacing instead of MB recordings while I was absent?!


Welcome to TC!

N.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Granate said:


> Wait, was this a whole argument about blackfacing instead of MB recordings while I was absent?!


These threads have their own life.

It is no secret that I have an interest for singers that by a coincidence often gets cast as Cio-Cio San. So here are my favourite versions.
I like this version of Madama Butterfly from the Nikikai opera company with Mihoko Kinoshita in the title role a Cio-Cio San that is really sweet and Japanese and sings beautifully. Full with cherry trees and colourful kimonos:






Also this version from La Scala from 1987 with Yasuko Hayashi the Japanese queen of bel canto opera roles:






Yasuko Hayashi sung Butterfly at La Scala already in 1973 so she was a routined Cio-Cio San here.


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Absolutely that is why these cries of 'authenticity' from the PC lobby are so ridiculous. Added to the fact that the people on the stage are actors playing a part.


Funny that you should hold this view, when not too long ago  you were complaining about singers who were too fat or too old to sing certain parts.

Edit: never mind, others got there before me, I see.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

betterthanfine said:


> *Funny that you should hold this view, *when not too long ago  you were complaining about singers who were too fat or too old to sing certain parts.
> 
> Edit: never mind, others got there before me, I see.


I see you are another who hasn't actually read what I actually said. What I said was that in the age of HD it is important that the singers look something like they are supposed to. But of course as these are actors ethnicity is not as important as some people who are PC would like to make it. I don't think we should have a row about a non-Japanese singing Butterfly any more than a non-Spaniard (like Grace Bumbry) singing Carmen. Hopefully your misinterpretation of 'this view' (and that of others who got in before you) has been resolved somewhat.


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> I see you are another who hasn't actually read what I actually said. What I said was that in the age of HD it is important that the singers look something like they are supposed to. But of course as these are actors ethnicity is not as important as some people who are PC would like to make it. I don't think we should have a row about a non-Japanese singing Butterfly any more than a non-Spaniard (like Grace Bumbry) singing Carmen. Hopefully your misinterpretation of 'this view' (and that of others who got in before you) has been resolved somewhat.


But why would looks be important for authenticity, when ethnicity is not? I do get your point, we live in an age where looks matter more than ever. My point is that they _shouldn't_. Like you yourself say, the people on stage are just actors playing a part.


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## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Rogerx said:


> Look no further, the golden standard for years to come .
> Soloist in their absolute prime, recording second to none.


I wouldn't go so far as to say "look no further" but this is certainly my favourite recording of Butterfly. I find it a shattering experience.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

betterthanfine said:


> But why would looks be important for authenticity, when ethnicity is not? I do get your point, we live in an age where looks matter more than ever. My point is that they _shouldn't_. Like you yourself say, the people on stage are just actors playing a part.


But their looks should approximate to what they are playing. ie a young consumptive heroine should not be played by an overweight, elderly singer. Or are such concepts foreign to you?


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

DavidA said:


> But their looks should approximate to what they are playing. ie a young consumptive heroine should not be played by an overweight, elderly singer. Or are such concepts foreign to you?


No, of course they are not. But I just don't care as much, I suppose. Someone can totally look the part, but still be a terrible actor. I'd rather have an overweight singer who draws me in with their performance and makes me forget they are twenty years older than the part they are performing. Someone like Caballe would not have had the carreer she has had if she were an up and coming singer today, by your standards.

Our society has a messed up body image.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

betterthanfine said:


> No, of course they are not. But I just don't care as much, I suppose. Someone can totally look the part, but still be a terrible actor. I'd rather have an overweight singer who draws me in with their performance and makes me forget they are twenty years older than the part they are performing. Someone like Caballe would not have had the carreer she has had if she were an up and coming singer today, by your standards.
> 
> Our society has a messed up body image.


Montserrat Caballe was much thinner in the beginning of her career.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cf/6e/4e/cf6e4ed0d8557ea315dd716639bd87b5.jpg

And for Butterfly if the singers are 20 years older than their part they are actually rather young.

If we look at singers that currently often sings Butterfly, Alexia Voulgaridou is probably over 50 or close to 50. Hiromi Omura is 48, Hui He is 46, Ermonila Jaho is 45, Saekyung Rim is 43, Mihoko Kinoshita took masters degree is 2002 and Karah Son sung the countess in the Marriage of Figaro in 1997. Kristine Opolais is 39.

Alexia Voulgaridou have by the way sung Butterfly in Japan.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

betterthanfine said:


> No, of course they are not. But I just don't care as much, I suppose. Someone can totally look the part, but still be a terrible actor. I'd rather have an overweight singer who draws me in with their performance and makes me forget they are twenty years older than the part they are performing. *Someone like Caballe would not have had the carreer she has had if she were an up and coming singer today, by your standards.
> 
> Our society has a messed up body image.*


I can't see how society has 'messed up' body image by wanting people to look the part. I think Caballe would have had a career for the sheer beauty of her singing but her body / mass index would have been a greater problem. She was, with Pavorotti, one of those singers whose beauty of voice was thought to compensate for her ungainly appearance. As a young singer, Karajan offered her a contract but stipulated she lose 33 lb first! Interesting that when Karajan cast Butterfly for the Ponelle film Pav was out and Domingo in. Why? No-one in a movie could take Pav seriously as an ardent young sailor. 
I must confess an overweight and/or elderly singer does not draw me into the part however well they sing if I have to look at them. And with HD opinion is generally that way too.


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## RobertKC (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm not a music scholar, and am not equipped to critique singing. In terms of opera recordings, I generally enjoy film adaptations of opera, and filmed stage performances. To me the acting and scenery is important. I prefer actors who look the part - however a performer who is an excellent actor can help suspend disbelief.

I value excellent quality audio (preferably surround-sound) and video.

I think that this DVD of Madama Butterfly is very good as a total package: music, singing, casting of performers, acting, stagecraft, and audio and video quality of the DVD.










To me, Richard Troxell does a great job as the tall, handsome, young, and (initially) cavalier US Navy officer. IMO Troxell's portrayal makes the story more interesting, compared with other performances I've seen where Pinkerton is portrayed as a completely uncaring cad. To me, Troxell's portrayal of Pinkerton in the early part of his relationship with Cio-Cio-san involves a cavalier attitude that follows what used to be a _somewhat_-accepted norm for a young man to "sow a few wild oats" (_nudge / wink_) - or more apropos, have "a girl in every port". And I think that this film does a good job convincing the viewer that Pinkerton did fall in love with Cio-Cio-san after their marriage. But when Pinkerton is redeployed back to the USA (with no long-distance communications available in 1904) - he forgets his promise to return for Cio-Cio-san. He eventually understands the tragic consequences of his actions, and is torn apart with remorse. This portrayal of Pinkerton requires good acting skills, which I think Troxell delivers. In contrast, the "park and bark" approach that I've seen some other tenors bring to the role doesn't work for me. IMO, if the portrayal of Pinkerton is completely unsympathetic, then the story isn't very interesting. (In other words, how interesting is a story about a complete jerk who has no conscience?)

I think that Ying Huang does a very good job portraying Cio-Cio-san. I'm aware that she isn't capable of performing this role live, but this is a film, and in films some "Hollywood magic" comes into play.

I think that all of the supporting roles are acted convincingly, including Suzuki, Sharpless, and Goro. (However, the scene with the ghost is a little weird.)

The widescreen DVD video quality is very good (upscaled via my Oppo UDP-205), and the Dolby Digital Stereo audio quality is very good. (My Oppo UDP-205 can optionally generate pseudo-surround-sound via DTS Neo:6 Mode Cinema.)

I would recommend this DVD to an opera "newbie", because most people (i.e., John Q. Public) are accustomed to "Hollywood style" movies, and expect "Hollywood quality" stagecraft. And, it can be of significant value to a newbie (particularly if they don't understand the language being sung) to have the dialog displayed (in the viewer's choice of several languages) on the TV screen.

It seems to me that once someone has learned the opera's story, then they are better equipped to hear an audio-only recording and understand what is happening as the story progresses. In an audio-only recording, the singers' ability to emote via their voice becomes as important - IMO - as technically skilled singing.

At the risk of going off-topic, it seems to me that this film adaptation of Madama Butterfly can provide a springboard for an interesting discussion about how gender roles have evolved in the last hundred years. (For example, how has society's attitude about a young man "sowing a few wild oats" changed? How has society's acceptance of single mothers, and interracial children changed?)

I also own the 24bit/96kHz FLAC download of the Warner remastered 1955 Callas performance. This is a different experience because it is audio only. Even with the remastering, this 1955 recording falls significantly short of state-of-the-art audio quality, and I don't care to listen to this recording.

I think that whenever there is a discussion about the "best" recording of an opera, there needs to be two categories: 1) For opera newbies who don't know the opera's story, and 2) for opera aficionados who know the story like the back of their hand (and/or who understand the language being sung), and who are more likely to place value in classical singing skills vs. stagecraft or audio quality of a recording.

Bottom line: For the newbie, I think that the film adaptation (DVD) of Madama Butterfly starring Huang and Troxell is an excellent choice.

I'll see Madama Butterfly performed live (starring Karah Son and Georgy Vasiliev) in a few weeks. I'm hoping it's a high-quality production that successfully portrays the complexities of this story - and sounds beautiful doing so.

P.S. I just saw on Amazon this Blu-ray (featuring DTS-HD Master Audio) of a 2017 production by The Royal Opera starring Ermonela Jaho and Marcelo Puente. The Blu-ray will be released on Oct 26, 2018. Has anyone seen this production?










Here's some snippets:

http://www.roh.org.uk/people/ermonela-jaho
http://www.roh.org.uk/people/marcelo-puente


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

RobertKC said:


> I'll see Madama Butterfly performed live (starring Karah Son and Georgy Vasiliev) in a few weeks. I'm hoping it's a high-quality production that successfully portrays the complexities of this story - and sounds beautiful doing so.


Karah Son recently sung Butterfly in Gothenburg in a performance directed by Yoshi Oida who plays Butterflys father in the 1995 film.


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## betterthanfine (Oct 17, 2017)

Any love for the Pappano with Gheorghiu and Kaufmann?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

betterthanfine said:


> Any love for the Pappano with Gheorghiu and Kaufmann?


Kaufmann is just completely miscast as Pinkerton. Gheorghiu's pretty but small lyric instrument is in no way a Butterfly voice in my view.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

betterthanfine said:


> Any love for the Pappano with Gheorghiu and Kaufmann?


I have it and like it  But I can't say where I'd rate it across different recordings. I don't think I've listened to any single recording often enough to pinpoint my favorite. But I'll revisit it soon.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> Kaufmann is just completely miscast as Pinkerton. Gheorghiu's pretty but small lyric instrument is in no way a Butterfly voice in my view.


I'm of the same opinion on her underpowered Tosca, and can't understand why people like her performances of that opera with Bryn Terfel, who's also vocally miscast as Scarpia.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I'm of the same opinion on her underpowered Tosca, and can't understand why people like her performances of that opera with Bryn Terfel, who's also vocally miscast as Scarpia.


To be fair, she does look fantastic in the video. And Kaufmann is fantastic as Cavaradossi--his performance of E lucevan le stelle from that infamous 2016 performance where Gheorghiu missed her cue is one of the most beautiful versions I've ever heard.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> To be fair, she does look fantastic in the video. And Kaufmann is fantastic as Cavaradossi--his performance of E lucevan le stelle from that infamous 2016 performance where Gheorghiu missed her cue is one of the most beautiful versions I've ever heard.


Agree on Kaufmann's aria. Really powerful. Cavaradossi isn't much of a character, but Kaufmann has enough physical and vocal presence that I don't care. Tosca is a verismo part and needs a strong midrange and plenty of fire and bite. Gheorghiu doesn't have that kind of voice, and her so-so acting suggests that she hasn't the temperament either. The Puccini for her would be Mimi, Musetta, Magda or Liu.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Agree on Kaufmann's aria. Really powerful. Cavaradossi isn't much of a character, but Kaufmann has enough physical and vocal presence that I don't care. Tosca is a verismo part and needs a strong midrange and plenty of fire and bite. Gheorghiu doesn't have that kind of voice, and her so-so acting suggests that she hasn't the temperament either. The Puccini for her would be Mimi, Musetta, Magda or Liu.


Also Butterfly gain having some fire and bite. She does try to stab Goro efter all.


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## mrrkdino (Dec 23, 2018)

DavidA said:


> frankly you have first misunderstood me. I said that Callas SOUNDS like a Diva being a 15 year-old, which of course she was. It is of itself quite remarkable, but to me Freni sings the part more naturally. I didn't mention Tebaldi at all. To say that 'It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard' is a pretty ridiculous statement to make when we're dealing with preferences. Of course, I know to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what. I have the Callas and know what I am talking about. Also the Barbirolli and the Erede. Freni moves me more but I know that is a subjective judgment. So is yours on Callas, but you appear to find it difficult to admit. I have no problem whatever with you preferring Callas but please let other people differ without accusing them of 'lazy platitudes'.
> If you read John Steane's review of Freni / Karajan you will find a pretty rapturous take on that too: 'Like the [Decca] Boheme, Karajan's Butterfly [with Freni] should become a classic of the gramophone,' he concludes.
> I'll ignore your put-down at the end, btw. I'll take it you didn't mean it offensively. All the best!


Well said. This "Callas can do wrong, no other soprano touches her" nonsense has been going on far too long. To me, she sounds so arch, that silly little girlish voice she attempts and that ugly shrill voice with that wobble. No, sorry I want feeling and beautiful singing for Puccini. Tebaldi, Freni and the very underrated
Moffo recordings are the ones to go for.


DavidA said:


> frankly you have first misunderstood me. I said that Callas SOUNDS like a Diva being a 15 year-old, which of course she was. It is of itself quite remarkable, but to me Freni sings the part more naturally. I didn't mention Tebaldi at all. To say that 'It's a lazy platitude to suggest that the second Karajan is the golden standard' is a pretty ridiculous statement to make when we're dealing with preferences. Of course, I know to Callas fans and worshippers Callas is always the gold standard no matter what. I have the Callas and know what I am talking about. Also the Barbirolli and the Erede. Freni moves me more but I know that is a subjective judgment. So is yours on Callas, but you appear to find it difficult to admit. I have no problem whatever with you preferring Callas but please let other people differ without accusing them of 'lazy platitudes'.
> If you read John Steane's review of Freni / Karajan you will find a pretty rapturous take on that too: 'Like the [Decca] Boheme, Karajan's Butterfly [with Freni] should become a classic of the gramophone,' he concludes.
> I'll ignore your put-down at the end, btw. I'll take it you didn't mean it offensively. All the best!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The only one I have and the only one I need unless I want a different tenor. I think Gedda is miscast, thanks to Legge.









Puccini, Callas, Karajan - Madama Butterfly


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

At the moment, my favorite recording of _Butterfly _is the cut Mitropoulos recording for the Met Opera Record Club. Obviously, the cuts are a major drawback, but the cast is great, Kirsten in particular being girlish without being affected. Her singing in the second act is phenomenal, acting the part in every phrase. And unlike Freni and Moffo, who left excellent recordings too, she could sing the role onstage without damaging or artificially modifying her voice. Kirsten's technique really was top notch, and she deserved much more in the way of recording contracts. Also of note is Mildred Miller as Suzuki -- she goes all out. Harvout is solid and Barioni is his usual mix of outstanding and slightly off. Mitropoulos is always special.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Clara Petrella, Ferruccio Tagliavini, Giuseppe Taddei.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I'll take Scotto/Bergonzi/Barbirolli (although I have never heard Petrella and Tagliavini is not a particular favorite)


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I'll take Scotto/Bergonzi/Barbirolli (although I have never heard Petrella and Tagliavini is not a particular favorite)


Tagliavini is not my favourite Pinkerton and is a little past his prime. Some moments are beautiful, others not so much, if I could choose I'd have Campora or Di Stefano who sing the role on contemporary recordings although Tagliavini is far from a total disaster. But Petrella is really wonderful as Butterfly and Taddei is excellent too.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Op.123 said:


> Clara Petrella, Ferruccio Tagliavini, Giuseppe Taddei.


That was my very first *Madama Butterfly*, a budget recording because I couldn’t afford the full price EMI ones.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

MAS said:


> That was my very first *Madama Butterfly*, a budget recording because I couldn’t afford the full price EMI ones.


I just listened to Petrella doing my favorite part "ahh ma scordata" for which I tend to judge the performance and found her to have a sensational voice as well but I still find Scotto's rendering of this part a wee bit more to my liking. They are both excellent but there was something in Scotto's voice that grabbed at my gut.
I appreciate finding a singer I was not familiar with. I always like learning new singers and time is getting short so I must thank you.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

vivalagentenuova said:


> At the moment, my favorite recording of _Butterfly _is the cut Mitropoulos recording for the Met Opera Record Club. Obviously, the cuts are a major drawback, but the cast is great, Kirsten in particular being girlish without being affected. Her singing in the second act is phenomenal, acting the part in every phrase. And unlike Freni and Moffo, who left excellent recordings too, she could sing the role onstage without damaging or artificially modifying her voice. Kirsten's technique really was top notch, and she deserved much more in the way of recording contracts. Also of note is Mildred Miller as Suzuki -- she goes all out. Harvout is solid and Barioni is his usual mix of outstanding and slightly off. Mitropoulos is always special.


I always loved that set, though it's been some time since I heard it. Still LP-only? I found mp3's on Amazon UK, put out "copyright" 2009 by something called Big Eye Music, not I believe the LA pop label by that name. They use the old Columbia "eye" logo on the "cover" graphic.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/music/play...oulos,digital-music,223&qid=1669236666&sr=1-2

Those Met Record Club sets were I believe recorded by Columbia, in the US, yet, and featured among others artists who were exclusive to Columbia and who weren't getting in on the big LP boom of the time (since Columbia had stopped doing complete opera recordings) like Kirsten, Richard Tucker -- and Mitropoulos. Oh, to have him instead of Leinsdorf in all those essentially Met-cast opera recordings RCA was doing in Italy at the time!

The "slightly abridged" nature of several of the 2-LP sets was due to some kind of agreement with the US musicians' unions, and none of the recordings were supposed to be rereleased--so I have it upon lore. Anyone know for a fact?

Anyhow, as I remember it this recording basically takes the usual stage cuts--wedding guests, etc--but also cut the intermezzo, which I remember as the big cut. True? That UK mp3 set has a 4:34 track for the intermezzo. I wonder if that's the "real" one, or has somebody married it in from one of the three Mitropoulos broadcasts?

--And I agree with you about Mildred Miller. She was great in everything she did, and she did a lot. Maybe needs a slot in the "Unappreciated Great Singers" thread, if there isn't one there already.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

MAS said:


> [Petrella, Tagliavini, Taddei] was my very first *Madama Butterfly*, a budget recording because I couldn’t afford the full price EMI ones.


Oh Lordy, did you have it in one of those awful Everest/Cetra "electronic stereo" LP sets? If so, I've been there and I commiserate.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ewilkros said:


> Oh Lordy, did you have it in one of those awful Everest/Cetra "electronic stereo" LP sets? If so, I've been there and I commiserate.


I don’t think it was, though given the time period, it should’ve been. I have no memory of the cover, but it seems to me it was not the white and gold design of the Everest/Cetras that I remember. On the other hand, it was over 50 years ago, so I could be wrong! 😀
It could’ve been on the Victrola label when Dario Soria sold brought the Cetra recordings to RCA.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

mrrkdino said:


> Well said. This "Callas can do wrong, no other soprano touches her" nonsense has been going on far too long. To me, she sounds so arch, that silly little girlish voice she attempts and that ugly shrill voice with that wobble. No, sorry I want feeling and beautiful singing for Puccini. Tebaldi, Freni and the very underrated
> Moffo recordings are the ones to go for.
> 
> View attachment 178908





I do like this one even more.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> I do like this one even more.


the crappier the cover of a recording is, the better performed/recorded it is.
(jjk)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

mrrkdino said:


> Well said. This "Callas can do wrong, no other soprano touches her" nonsense has been going on far too long. To me, she sounds so arch, that silly little girlish voice she attempts and that ugly shrill voice with that wobble. No, sorry I want feeling and beautiful singing for Puccini. Tebaldi, Freni and the very underrated
> Moffo recordings are the ones to go for.


I'd agree if you're one of these people who wants to hear some lovely tunes sung by beautiful voices with a lush orchestral backing. However, if you think that the opera is arguably Puccini's most starkly tragic, score with a cumulative effect that can be quite shattering, then you might be tempted to look elsewhere.

I have three recordings, all of which fulfil these criteria to some degree, the De Los Angeles/Di Stefano/ Gavazzeni, the Scotto/Bergonzi/Barbirolli and, most moving of all, the Callas/Gedda/Karajan. When it was reviewed by John Steane for the Gramophone on its first issue on CD, he was unequivocal in his praise. I'll quote here from his review and then add a link to the whole thing.



> I believe devoutly that _Madama Butterfly_ is the most moving of all works for the stage, that this is the best recording of it, and that it is Callas's greatest achievement on records.


Puccini Madama Butterfly 

Clearly I'm not the only one with different priorities.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

*the crappier the cover of a recording is, the better performed/recorded it is.
(jjk) *


Original Vinyl cover .


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Rogerx said:


> *the crappier the cover of a recording is, the better performed/recorded it is.
> (jjk) *
> 
> 
> Original Vinyl cover .


Well, this picture is from epoch when USA didn't exist and Pinkerton's probably British ancestors were struggling with Vikings.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd agree if you're one of these people who wants to hear some lovely tunes sung by beautiful voices with a lush orchestral backing. However, if you think that the opera is arguably Puccini's most starkly tragic, score with a cumulative effect that can be quite shattering, then you might be tempted to look elsewhere.
> 
> I have three recordings, all of which fulfil these criteria to some degree, the De Los Angeles/Di Stefano/ Gavazzeni, the Scotto/Bergonzi/Barbirolli and, most moving of all, the Callas/Gedda/Karajan. When it was reviewed by John Steane for the Gramophone on its first issue on CD, he was unequivocal in his praise. I'll quote here from his review and then add a link to the whole thing.
> 
> ...


I agree with Steane's assessment. Callas is so devastating in this role that I may never have the fortitude to listen to the recording again.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I agree with Steane's assessment. Callas is so devasating in this role that I may never have the fortitude to listen to the recording again.


I remember one critic saying more or less that about Vickers's Tristan in the Karajan recording, saying the pain was so palpable that he never wanted to hear it again.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I just played the last part of Buttefly between Callas and Scotto for my mate and aside of all the sobbing I did, there is practically no way to decide between the two of them. We both agreed that Maestro Karajan easily takes the bows over Barbirolli but the best Cio Cio San will ever have to remain a mystery. 
I think it becomes a case of, "When I am with the one I love, I love the one I'm with."


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> The only one I have and the only one I need unless I want a different tenor. I think Gedda is miscast, thanks to Legge.
> 
> View attachment 178909
> 
> Puccini, Callas, Karajan - Madama Butterfly


Bingo! I too am not a fan of Gedda in this recording. Di Stefano and Gobbi had already recorded the opera with De los Angeles under Gavazzeni (a conductor I wish Callas had recorded more with). I love Callas' Butterfly, but the recordings with Tebaldi, Freni and De los Angeles have much better surroundings for their geishas.

N


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> I just played the last part of Buttefly between Callas and Scotto for my mate and aside of all the sobbing I did, there is practically no way to decide between the two of them. We both agreed that Maestro Karajan easily takes the bows over Barbirolli but the best Cio Cio San will ever have to remain a mystery.
> I think it becomes a case of, "When I am with the one I love, I love the one I'm with."


This is exactly what I think of my three favourite recordings of the opera.

Callas is the most devastating Cio Cio San on disc and her interpretation of the title role (around which the whole opera revolves) makes her set top. I don't mind the mono sound and the rest of the cast and Karajan are decent.

However, I think I prefer Gavazzeni's conducting and De los Angeles's first set has Di Stefano and Gobbi. She isn't as good as Callas here, but she manages to have both a beautiful tone AND to give a moving portrayal of Butterfly's character.

Santini isn't as colouful or imaginative as Gavazzeni or Karajan and Bjorling (I don't find him stiff at all) and Sereni aren't as wonderful as Di Stefano and Gobbi, but I find them much better than Gedda and Boriello and the stereo sound helps. Furthermore, De los Angeles has more experience in the role and there are some parts I find her a more convincing actress than Callas.

I refuse to pick a favourite out of all these three, but if I were going to recommend a recording to a first time listener I would go with the Santini as the best all round recording. Once someone knows the opera they can then go on to discover what Callas does with the role.

Other Butterflys I like are the Freni/Pavarotti for the glorious sound and voices and the Pappano with Kaufmann and Gheorhiu (although I haven't heard it in ages).

I did have the Tebaldi/Bergonzi, but the singing so bored me to tears, that I found myself zoning out from it and listening to Serafin's superb conducting. I've never understood the appeal with the Barbirolli, it's all nicely done, but I don't find Scotto at all moving and Bergonzi has never been my thing.

N


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Bingo! I too am not a fan of Gedda in this recording. Di Stefano and Gobbi had already recorded the opera with De los Angeles under Gavazzeni (a conductor I wish Callas had recorded more with). I love Callas' Butterfly, but the recordings with Tebaldi, Freni and De los Angeles have much better surroundings for their geishas.
> 
> N


Though I'd no doubt have preferred Di Stefano as Pinkerton, I don't think Gedda is as bad, or as wrong, as people often state. Pinkerton is no Duke of Mantua. He is just a thoughtless, young man who doesn't give a second thought to his actions. Confronted with the consequences of his thoughtlessness, he is filled with remorse, though too cowardly to face it. Young men like him are ten a penny on any college campus. Gedda fulfils those citeria quite well, I think. His Rodolfo on Freni's first recording with Schippers is likewise rather good.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Though I'd no doubt have preferred Di Stefano as Pinkerton, I don't think Gedda is as bad, or as wrong, as people often state. Pinkerton is no Duke of Mantua. He is just a thoughtless, young man who doesn't give a second thought to his actions. Confronted with the consequences of his thoughtlessness, he is filled with remorse, though to cowardly to face it himsel. Young men like him are ten a penny on any college campus. Gedda fulfils those citeria quite well, I think. His Rodolfo on Freni's first recording with Schippers is likewise rather good.


I don't know the Freni/Gedda Boheme. I personally don't particularly like Gedda's voice, I find his tone rather thin. That said, I often like _how _he sung (his Don Jose in the Callas Carmen is totally committed). I've never listened and compared Gedda with Bjorling back to back in the role. It may just be a case of preferring the fuller tone of Bjorling.

N.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd go with these choices.
> 
> I also like De Los Angeles in the role, preferably the earlier one with Di Stefano, who is a wonderfully ardent and charming Pinkerton. Bjoerling on the second set is unconscionably stiff, no match for his Rodolfo on the Beecham *La Boheme*.
> 
> I imagine most will plump for the Karajan with Freni and Pavarotti. It's absolutely gorgeously played and sung and great if you want a good wallow in lush beautiful sound, but, to my mind, it misses the stark tragedy of the piece. His first recording with Pis less beautiful but elevates the opera to the realm of true tragedy, on a par with those of Shakespeare and Euripides.


My favorite Butterflys are:
de los Angeles
Price
Freni
Pinkertons:
Bergonzi
di Stefano
Pavarotti


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

The Conte said:


> I don't know the Freni/Gedda Boheme. I personally don't particularly like Gedda's voice, I find his tone rather thin. That said, I often like _how _he sung (his Don Jose in the Callas Carmen is totally committed). I've never listened and compared Gedda with Bjorling back to back in the role. It may just be a case of preferring the fuller tone of Bjorling.
> 
> N.


I was a _huge_ Gedda fan a long time ago. I still highly respect his musicality and ability with languages, but I have come to find his tone only intermittently enjoyable. He too often does sound thin and hard. In that respect, his teacher Oehmann was far superior (and later in his career, Gedda had a different teacher who I think did bad things for his voice). His late 50s early 60s live recordings, such as his Salzburg recitals, are very strong though, and he is a great Rodolfo in that Schippers recording in terms of his tasteful phrasing and acting. Also Freni sounds fresher there than in the later Karajan.

In terms of _Butterfly_, I don't think it's fair to Freni to say that she only gave us pretty tunes with a pretty voice. I find her singing to be full of interpretive touches, and I think she sings her heart out. 

I still don't find her as moving as Kirsten, but that's in part because Kirsten's voice was just so perfectly suited to the role. Kirsten does not need to affect a young sounding voice, she has one, but with total security of tone up and down the scale and a heck of a lot of power. When I listened to her recording with Mitropoulos that I mentioned for the first time, I cried literally from the "Ora a noi" duet with Sharpless to the end, coming up for air only when Butterfly goes offstage -- and then Mildred Miller came in to slay me again. As Woodduck said about Callas, I've not had the heart to listen to it again. 

Different recordings have different advantages. Karajan does a particularly good job of wringing out every orchestral detail - and there are a lot of them to enjoy. Freni and Pavarotti are a very strong team. The Gigli recording is worth listening to, although I think Dal Monte way overdoes it. Petrella is a phenomenon, having possibly the most perfect middle voice I've ever heard, and her Manon Lescaut and Giorgetta are sensational, easily the best. Her Butterfly is great, but Tagliavini, though a great singer, had already started to ruin his voice by singing roles he shouldn't have, like Pinkerton.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've listened to a few Petrella recordings including that Butterfly, but wasn't particularly taken. I much prefer Carla Gavazzi from that era (and more famous sopranos, of course).

I will have to listen to her again, as she gets a lot of good reviews here.

N.


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## Andjar (Aug 28, 2020)

Callas-Karajan on audio 
And...Ermonela Jaho - Pappano on video for me .Jaho is an amazing Cio Cio San


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

schigolch said:


> This is my favorite recording of "Madama Butterfly":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Recently, I heard a live performance of the first act duet with Raina and Bergonzi, which was gloriously sung by both. I saw Raina as Manon Lescaut at the Met and thought she sounded like a lighter voiced Tebaldi, She is a great Tosca on video and IMO, an underrated great soprano. She also sounds great in live Tosca, Trovatore, and Adriana performances I saw on Youtube.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

schigolch said:


> This is my favorite recording of "Madama Butterfly":
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Watched it last night, again great acting and singing, must have.


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