# A Selection of "Musical Quotes/References"



## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Composers of the past (but even today I'd say) were known to often quote or reference other composers they admired, to express admiration and show musical erudition. The connoiseurs recognized the references and appreciated them. They didn't see that as plagiarism, as they didn't have the concept of plagiarism we have today, it was rather considered a compliment and an exhibition of knowledge. An example is Mozart's Confutatis, which is believed by some to be a reference to Pasquale Anfossi's Sinfonia "Venezia", 2nd movement, which was a known symphony often played in the courts. Can you think of others? What are your picks? Which ones do you find most interesting? Post them under here (insert the time if you can, please). Of course it is speculation.

Confutatis:






Sinfonia "Venezia", II. Andante (1:58):


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Continuing on the recent Telemann theme:


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Mozart's Magic Flute's Overture references the opening of Clementi's sonata op. 24 n. 2, which Clementi had played in their famous duel. (Edit: hammeredklavier makes good points about this being common classical-era gesture present in Mozart before Clementi, see his post. Funny thing is Clementi printed on the sonatas the fact they inspired the theme in Magic Flute. To say it in Mozart's words: charlatan!).

Mozart's Overture (1:28):






Clementi's Sonata in B-Flat Major, Op. 24 No. 2: I. Allegro con brio:


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

Beethoven possibly referenced Mozart's Misericordias Domini, K.222 in his "Ode to Joy".

Beethoven's Ode to Joy:






Mozart: Misericordias Domini, K.222 (1:01):


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## Haydn70 (Jan 8, 2017)

The third movement of Berio's _Sinfonia _is chock full of musical quotations.

From Wiki:

"In the third movement of _Sinfonia _Berio lays the groundwork by quoting multiple excerpts from the third movement scherzo from Mahler's Symphony No. 2 and has the orchestra play a slightly cut-up, re-shuffled and occasionally re-orchestrated version of it. Many have described Berio's third movement as a "musical collage", in essence using an "Ivesian" approach to the entire movement (American composer Charles Ives in his Symphony No. 2 first used musical quotation techniques on a grand scale at the turn of the 20th century about 65 years earlier).

The orchestra plays snatches of Claude Debussy's La Mer, Maurice Ravel's La Valse, Igor Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring, as well as quotations from Arnold Schoenberg, Anton Webern, Johannes Brahms, Henri Pousseur, Paul Hindemith, and many others (including Berio himself) creating a dense collage, occasionally to humorous effect. When one of the reciters says "I have a present for you", the orchestra follows immediately with the introductory chord from Don, the first movement from Pli selon pli by Pierre Boulez.

The quoted fragments are often chosen because they bear a rhythmic or melodic likeness to Mahler's scherzo. For example, Berio uses a violin line from the second movement of Alban Berg's violin concerto with chromatically descending sixteenth notes two measures before a similarly descending line appears in Mahler's scherzo. This is then accompanied by another violin descent, taken from Johannes Brahms' violin concerto (Schwartz & Godfrey 1993, p. 378). The text from Beckett at this point begins, "So after a period of immaculate silence there seemed", but, instead of continuing the quotation ("a feeble cry was heard by me"), Berio substitutes the words "to be a violin concerto being played in the other room in three quarters" and then, after the Berg quotation, alto 2 insists on "two violin concertos", at the point where Berg is interrupted by Brahms (Hicks 1980-81, p. 214).

The eight individual voices simultaneously recite texts from various sources, most notably the first page of Samuel Beckett's The Unnamable. Other text fragments include references to James Joyce, graffiti Berio noticed during the May 1968 protests in Paris, notes from Berio's diary (Schwartz & Godfrey 1993, p. 376), and stage direction by Mayakovsky.[citation needed]

Berio himself describes the movement as a "Voyage to Cythera" (Berio, Dalmonte & Varga 1985, p. 108) in which a ship filled with gifts is headed towards the island dedicated to the goddess of love.

Musical quotations
A partial list of musical quotations used in the third movement of Sinfonia in order of their appearance:

Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra, fourth movement, "Peripetie" (violent scale from bars 2-3 played by the brass), in bars 1-6
A brief quotation from the beginning of Mahler's Symphony No. 4 in bars 2-10
Claude Debussy's La mer, second movement, "Jeux de vagues" (opening measures), in bars 4-5
Mahler's Symphony No. 2 (Resurrection), third movement (the only quotation that is ongoing) entering in bar 7, from where it continues to the end of the movement, though not always audibly (Hicks 1980-81, p. 212)
Paul Hindemith's Kammermusik No. 4
Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé, flute solo from the Pantomime
Debussy's "Jeux de vagues" returns
Berlioz's idée fixe from the Symphonie Fantastique (played by the flutes and oboes), in bar 106
Ravel's La Valse (orchestra plays octave motif with piccolo playing a chromatic scale)
Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps (the "Dance of the Earth" sequence at the end of the first tableau), bars 170-85
Stravinsky's Agon (upper oboe part from the "Double pas de quatre" as well the castanet part from the "Bransle Gai")
Richard Strauss's Der Rosenkavalier (one of the waltzes composed for the opera)
another extract from Ravel's La Valse
a chorale by Johann Sebastian Bach
the end of the second movement of Bach's First Brandenburg Concerto
Alban Berg's Wozzeck (the drowning scene late in the third act)
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, second movement (melody stated with the clarinets)
Resumption of Hindemith's Kammermusik No. 4 in the solo violin, starting in bar 429
Another quotation from Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, ending in bar 448
Brief recapitulation of the opening of the movement: Schoenberg's "Peripetie", Debussy's La Mer (this time from the third movement "Dialogue du vent et de la mer"), starting at bar 488
Boulez's Pli Selon Pli, very first chord of the entire piece from the first movement ("Don")
Anton Webern's Cantata No. 2, Op. 31, fifth movement (opening), in bars 547-54
Karlheinz Stockhausen's Gruppen for three orchestras (during the introductions of the vocalists near the end, bars 555-60)"


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Amadea said:


> Mozart's Magic Flute's Overture references the opening of Clementi's sonata op. 24 n. 2, which Clementi had played in their famous duel:
> Mozart's Overture (1:28):
> 
> 
> ...


I think this (connection) is somewhat exaggerated cause the phrase sounds like a generic Classical-era gesture, found even in the Dixit dominus of Mozart's Vesperae K.339 (1780), which predates the Clementi sonata by 1 year.




We've already had several of threads of this type, I'm starting to feel a bit sick of them now.
(There are some dozens of mutual "borrowings" between Michael Haydn and Mozart, btw)


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## Rex1 (Feb 24, 2019)

The second theme from the 2nd movement of Haydn's 98th symphony references the slow movement of Mozart's Jupiter Symphony (both in F major):





Go to 8:46





1:58

The main theme of that Haydn movement also sounds similar to a melody Mozart himself used several times, including in the Agnus Dei of his Coronation Mass K. 317 and the Dove sono from Marriage of Figaro. Haydn would later reuse this melody in his Agnus Dei from the Harmoniemesse.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

I've mentioned it before, but this is also a possibility:










I think Jeremy Denk was on to something in that NPR piece where he says that Bach conceived this as in part doing Handel one better.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> (There are some dozens of mutual "borrowings" between Michael Haydn and Mozart, btw)


Alright, I'll give some:

Michael Haydn Missa in C, "sancti francisci Seraphici" (c.1756):




(Btw, the melodic charm of the Benedictus of this work is other-worldly; 



. If the date of composition is really 1756, that would mean Michael wrote it at the age of 19.)

Mozart Missa longa in C, K.262 (1775):













Michael Haydn Missa in C "sancti Hieronymi" (1777):


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

J. Haydn Mass in E flat: 



Beethoven Op.55/ii: 




J. Haydn Op.20/5/iv: 



Beethoven Op.55/iv:


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> I think this (connection) is somewhat exaggerated cause the phrase sounds like a generic Classical-era gesture, found even in the Dixit dominus of Mozart's Vesperae K.339 (1780), which predates the Clementi sonata by 1 year.


This is very interesting and I didn't know this, so thank you. Funny thing: Clementi printed the sonatas before the Magic Flute and they were very known, but on the editions he published after the Magic Flute (and after Mozart's death) he wrote the sonata inspired the theme in the Magic Flute. Using Mozart's own words, I can imagine what his comment would be: charlataaan!!! :lol:



hammeredklavier said:


> We've already had several of threads of this type, I'm starting to feel a bit sick of them now.


I apologize, I hadn't found others searching the terms "quotes", "borrowings", etc. So I started this.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

I noticed also Handel's influence in Mozart's Requiem. It is not really the same, not a quote, it's rather an influence. Tell me what you think.

Mozart: Requiem - Rex tremendae






G.F. HÄNDEL: Oboe Concerto No.3 in G minor HWV 287


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Amadea said:


> I noticed also Handel's influence in Mozart's Requiem. It is not really the same, not a quote, it's rather an influence. Tell me what you think. ...


Here's one of my favorite works by Handel. Sound familiar?


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

consuono said:


> Here's one of my favorite works by Handel. Sound familiar?


I didn't know this piece. Sounds like it inspired the introit of the requiem. I knew Mozart respected Handel a lot but I guess I've underestimated how _much_. Mozart even adapted some of Handel's works as a commission if I remember correctly. Since Beethoven loved Handel probably even more than Mozart, do you have some examples by him? I guess we're focusing too much on Mozart, expecially too much on the requiem.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Amadea said:


> I didn't know this piece. Sounds like it inspired the introit of the requiem. I knew Mozart respected Handel a lot but I guess I've underestimated how _much_. Mozart even adapted some of Handel's works as a commission if I remember correctly. Since Beethoven loved Handel probably even more than Mozart, do you have some examples by him? I guess we're focusing too much on Mozart, expecially too much on the requiem.


I can't think of any direct quotes in Beethoven, but I've always thought that the Missa Solemnis feels more influenced by Handel rather than Bach, Haydn or Mozart. And *if* the Handel that I linked was an influence, Mozart as he always did absorbed the influence brilliantly through his own voice.


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

consuono said:


> And *if* the Handel that I linked was an influence, Mozart as he always did absorbed the influence brilliantly through his own voice.


Oh yes, Mozart was a master at assimilating. I'm reading in Hermann Abert's book "Mozart", which I highly recommend, how great he was at assimilating any composer he studied, and he studied so many! Schobert in particular was a favourite, which was a very "sensitive" and emotional composer for his times:






Of course not all the composers he studied had a big lasting influence on him. He got rid of many pretty fast. When he was a child, he used to try to compose exactly like them, so much some works, in Hermann Abert's words, seem almost like made by the composers themselves (and he was a child!!). Then his style evolved of course and becomed more and more personal.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> Here's one of my favorite works by Handel. Sound familiar?


Oh, not again...
D-C#-D-E-F - I told you many times before, it's not even Handel's unique signature.









"The music collection of the Salzburg cathedral contains more sacred vocal music of the mid-18th century (ca. 1730-80) than any other period. An inventory of this large collection, recently undertaken by this writer at the request of Domkapellmeister Prof. Josef Messner, shows that Mozart's predecessors and colleagues in the archbishop's service are represented by an imposing amount of liturgical music. Among these musicians none seems to have been more industrious than *Johann Ernst Eberlin* (1702-62). There is evidence in the number of works preserved: a thematic catalog contains, so far, approximately 70 Masses, Mass fragments and Requiems, 160 motets and other smaller works, 37 litanies, 14 sequences and hymns, 35 settings of individual or grouped vesper psalms, and 3 Te Deum. This list does not include the large amount of sacred music in the vernacular. Aside from such first-hand evidence there is the well-known testimony of Eberlin's younger colleague, Leopold Mozart. In his report on the Salzburg musical establishment in 1757, the older Mozart singled out Eberlin for his industry and speed in composing, comparing him to Alessandro Scarlatti and Telemann. At the time of Leopold Mozart's writing Eberlin had risen, from the position of fourth organist in 1725, to the highest rank of Hof-und Domkapellmeister (1749) and had recently been granted the added honorary appointment of Titular-Truchsess.
Both Leopold and his son thought highly of Eberlin's ability; from their testimony and from other evidence it appears that Eberlin's reputation was primarily based on his contrapuntal works. Wolfgang Mozart's remarks are significant: while eventually he modified his high opinion of Eberlin's keyboard works (the only works to be published during the composer's lifetime) he continued to esteem his vocal writing."
<Johann Ernst Eberlin's Motets for Lent / Reinhard G. Pauly / Journal of the American Musicological Society (1962) 15 (2): 182-192.>


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

consuono said:


> I can't think of any direct quotes in Beethoven, but I've always thought that the Missa Solemnis feels more influenced by Handel rather than Bach, Haydn or Mozart. And *if* the Handel that I linked was an influence, Mozart as he always did absorbed the influence brilliantly through his own voice.


One thing about Beethoven's Missa solemnis is that it classifies as a "credo-messe", (the word "credo" is sung twice in a two-note motif) the tradition of "credo-messes" is thought to have been started by J.J. Fux, and continued on by Mozart (K.192, K.257)





Also I think the Et incarnatus est from this Michael Haydn missa brevis resembles that of the Beethoven missa the most:


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Zelenka Missa votiva (1739) - credo




Bach Mass in B minor - credo


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

hammeredklavier said:


> Oh, not again...
> D-C#-D-E-F - I told you many times before, it's not even Handel's unique signature.


Nah, I think the resemblance is too close to be nothing, going beyond just a five-note motif. It could be a mixture of both and more.

Another possibility I've mentioned before:


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## Amadea (Apr 15, 2021)

"The Sonata for Viola and Piano, Op. 147, is the last composition by Dmitri Shostakovich. It was completed on July 6, 1975, weeks before his death. It is dedicated to Fyodor Druzhinin, violist of the Beethoven Quartet. Shostakovich referred to the final movement as an "Adagio in Memory of Beethoven" or "Adagio in Memory of a Great Composer," although emphasized that its mood was "bright and clear," further characterizing it as "radiant music." Allusions to Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata are juxtaposed with reminiscences of themes presented earlier in the Viola Sonata, followed by an extensive self-quotation which strings together references to each of Shostakovich's fifteen symphonies. Its final pages close with a quote from his early Suite in F♯ minor."


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast (Jun 3, 2020)

Haydn70 said:


> The third movement of Berio's _Sinfonia _is chock full of musical quotations.
> 
> From Wiki:
> 
> ...


That movement of Berio's Sinfonia never fails to make me cry


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