# Scott Joplin on Harpsichord?



## Whistler Fred

One of E. Power Biggs last recordings was of Scott Joplin play on a pedal harpsichord. I very much like it and think ragtime sound just fine on the instrument. But I wonder just how many America homes or halls would have used a pedal harpsichord at the turn of the 19th Century. I haven't been able to find out much on the topic, but I surmise that the pedal harpsichord, if found at all, would more likely be in the parlors of the more well-to-do people or institutions. Those places would probably have considered ragtime a vulgar and socially low kind of music, not suitable for polite company. It was the times...

So for all you music historians out there: How likely is it that Joplin's music would have ever been performed on harpsichord?


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## DrKilroy

HIP ragtime fanatics will not be pleased.  It is extremely unlikely that ragtime had been played on a harpsichord in the ragtime era. It makes, however, a very interesting effect and I enjoy such an practice, even though it is not historically informed. 

Best regards, Dr


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## lupinix

I believe to have heard at school harpsichords were more or less extinct until early 20th century, but im not sure


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## Ukko

Why is/was the pedal harpsichord? If, for instance, it was intended to assist in playing organ music from score with more ease... Joplin's rags probably sound good reworked for organ. Makes the whole issue look like snarled yarn.


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## Manxfeeder

I'm listening now. It reminds me of one of those old 25-cent music machines at the Disneyland penny arcade: big, raucous, and giving me a hankering for Carnation ice cream. 

If it was done, it was done in a place like that.


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## Whistler Fred

Ukko said:


> Why is/was the pedal harpsichord? If, for instance, it was intended to assist in playing organ music from score with more ease... Joplin's rags probably sound good reworked for organ. Makes the whole issue look like snarled yarn.


I believe pedal harpsichords were both used as practice organs and as musical instruments in their own right. Some have argued that J.S. Bach wrote his Trio Sonatas with the pedal harpsichord in mind.

Joplin on organ...hmmmm. I imagine that this could work quite well, particularly on a theater organ.


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## PetrB

I somehow think there just wasn't even one pedal harpsichord in any of the Bordellos, whether the most deluxe or shabby, of the day. Bordellos are where this music, ragtime, originated and was played, which was exactly why it was "scandalous" to any society at all once it got into the salons of homes or was played at parties.

When it comes to Bach or Scott Joplin, Satie or the transcribed songs of Debussy, performers will play then on any and all instruments, many transcriptions and arrangements are found -- _because they are all near sure-fire sellers in the recordings market._ If they sound 'good' to us is a matter of if they sound good to us, while documented history of Joplin played on any sort of harpsichord is non-existent 

I'm sure a Scott Joplin rag -- not played too fast as they most often are -- would sound charming as played by a turn of the century German-made music box. (Here, it is Mozart)





A number of people on TC, in a number of threads, have already said that a lot of music not only withstands bad performances, but also stands up to transcriptions of all sorts, i.e. the music itself is pretty damned _durable_


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## Whistler Fred

PetrB said:


> I somehow think there just wasn't even one pedal harpsichord in any of the Bordellos, whether the most deluxe or shabby, of the day. Bordellos are where this music, ragtime, originated and was played, which was exactly why it was "scandalous" to any society at all once it got into the salons of homes or was played at parties.


That was pretty much my thought. Even if they existed, they weren't likely to be found at such "houses of ill-repute."

I've heard Joplin played on guitar (pleasant but not wholly convincing), brass ensemble and, of course, ragtime band. I like the latter the best, particularly the Red Back Book arrangements. I have recordings by both the New England Ragtime Band (Joplin selections only) and the wonderfully named River Raisin Ragtime Revue Band (the whole book, which also include rags by Joseph Lamb, James Scott and others).


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## Manxfeeder

PetrB said:


> I somehow think there just wasn't even one pedal harpsichord in any of the Bordellos, whether the most deluxe or shabby, of the day. Bordellos are where this music, ragtime, originated and was played, which was exactly why it was "scandalous" to any society at all once it got into the salons of homes or was played at parties.


"Let us take a united stand against the Ragtime Evil as we would against bad literature, and horrors of war or intemperance and other socially destructive evils. In Christian homes, where purity of morals is stressed, ragtime should find no resting place. Avaunt with ragtime rot! Let us purge America and the Divine Art of Music from this polluting nuisance." Leo Oehmler in the _Musical Observer_, September 1914.

Wow!


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## Ukko

Manxfeeder said:


> "Let us take a united stand against the Ragtime Evil as we would against bad literature, and horrors of war or intemperance and other socially destructive evils. In Christian homes, where purity of morals is stressed, ragtime should find no resting place. Avaunt with ragtime rot! Let us purge America and the Divine Art of Music from this polluting nuisance." Leo Oehmler in the _Musical Observer_, September 1914.
> 
> Wow!


Was his next target Brahms maybe?


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## PetrB

Manxfeeder said:


> "Let us take a united stand against the Ragtime Evil as we would against bad literature, and horrors of war or intemperance and other socially destructive evils. In Christian homes, where purity of morals is stressed, ragtime should find no resting place. Avaunt with ragtime rot! Let us purge America and the Divine Art of Music from this polluting nuisance." Leo Oehmler in the _Musical Observer_, September 1914.
> 
> Wow!


LOL.

Replace "Ragtime" with "Atonal" in the above text and it could be current agitprop copy for anti-atonalists.

Like the anti-evolutionist "I am not an ape!" argument, it lacks any sort of logic or reasoning


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## Whistler Fred

Manxfeeder said:


> "Let us take a united stand against the Ragtime Evil as we would against bad literature, and horrors of war or intemperance and other socially destructive evils. In Christian homes, where purity of morals is stressed, ragtime should find no resting place. Avaunt with ragtime rot! Let us purge America and the Divine Art of Music from this polluting nuisance." Leo Oehmler in the _Musical Observer_, September 1914.


I suppose, in all fairness, that music associated with bordellos and gambling halls would raise the hackles of the moral guardians of society. And one of Scott Joplin's goals was to elevate the rag so it would be considered a respectable art form. Unfortunately, his race, at a time when racism was still all too alive in America, was an unfair deterrent. But that's a whole other topic!


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## Albert7

where can I find Joplin on harpischord on recordings?


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## MoonlightSonata

It's a very unusual thought....


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## tortkis

Probably harpsichord was not being used to play Joplin's music during ragtime heyday, but I read this wikipedia article about tack piano.

_"A tack piano is an altered version of an ordinary piano, [...] Tack pianos are commonly associated with ragtime pieces, often appearing in Hollywood Western saloon scenes featuring old upright pianos. The instrument was originally used for classical music performances as a substitute for a harpsichord."_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tack_piano

I didn't like that pedal harpsichord performance by Biggs, but I think Joplin's music would sound nice if a decent harpsichord is played by a good performer.

Does anyone know what kind of piano Robinson is playing on this recording? I guess it may be a tack piano, but I am not sure. It is a bit like harpsichord sound. Is this HIP of ragtime?

Maple Leaf Rag played by Aaron Robinson


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## les24preludes

Ragtime on other instruments is most successful to my ears played by a guitar duet. There are some beautiful recordings by Schoenberg and Laibman on their original LP "New Ragtime Guitar" e.g.






Ragtime was played on one guitar by guys like Rev. Gary Davis and pupils of his like Stefan Grossman, and these are great recordings. On piano you should hear Carolina Shout by James P Johnson






and by Fats Waller






We're moving a little way from Scott Joplin on pedal harpsichord, but if you're a Joplin fan you'll enjoy all the above.


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## Pat Fairlea

Confession: when practising bits of Joplin, I sometimes switch our Roland over to harpsichord. And for Debussy, switching to vibraphone makes practice more interesting. 
But I never, ever use the organ setting. Just not. No how.


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