# Favorite Wotan



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Which singer is your favorite for the role of Wotan?

Yes, I know there's another Wagner poll going on now, but I had this one in mind right around the time that one started and just can't wait! Twice the fun!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

adriesba said:


> Which singer is your favorite for the role of Wotan?
> 
> Yes, I know there's another Wagner poll going on now, but I had this one in mind right around the time that one started and just can't wait! Twice the fun!


Rheingold: Uhde
Walküre: Schorr
Siegfried: Hotter


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

wkasimer said:


> Rheingold: Uhde
> Walküre: Schorr
> Siegfried: Hotter


Three, that's an interesting way to look at it.

I can't believe I forgot Uhde.  Seems like an obvious candidate.


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## Ned Low (Jul 29, 2020)

For me it's Norman Bailey. By the way, Donald Mclntyre is an underrated Wotan in my opinion.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

adriesba said:


> Three, that's an interesting way to look at it.


It allows me to not decide. 

But if I had to choose a single singer, it would be Schorr, but the Schorr of the late 1920's, not the Schorr of Met broadcasts a decade too late.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

My favourite Wotan is Hans Reinmar!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I know this is going to horrify some, but I think it's John Tomlinson (with Hotter a close second). Hotter can be very nasal at times in those Bayreuth Ring and I find that annoying.

Note: I may change my mind on further listening.

N.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I feel like it's Schorr, Hotter, and then everyone else. Ferdinand Frantz, John Tomlinson, Donald Mcintyre probably deserve spots in the poll tho.

Some other threads I was reminded of that you might want to peruse or dig up...

https://www.talkclassical.com/31482-who-your-favorite-wotan.html?highlight=wotan

https://www.talkclassical.com/60740-who-greatest-wotan-all.html?highlight=wotan

https://www.talkclassical.com/60741-who-best-active-wotan.html?highlight=wotan


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Bonetan said:


> I feel like it's Schorr, Hotter, and then everyone else. Ferdinand Frantz, John Tomlinson, Donald Mcintyre probably deserve spots in the poll tho.
> 
> Some other threads I was reminded of that you might want to peruse or dig up...
> 
> ...


I didn't realize there were Wotan threads! I thought I checked, but apparently not.

Yeah, I try to start thinking about these lists ahead of time to get all the most famous singers in there, but somehow I always forget some.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Already named above....


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

adriesba said:


> I didn't realize there were Wotan threads! I thought I checked, but apparently not.
> 
> Yeah, I try to start thinking about these lists ahead of time to get all the most famous singers in there, but somehow I always forget some.


The search function isn't the best, when I do "advanced search" and "thread titles only' I usually find what I'm looking for


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Bonetan said:


> The search function isn't the best, when I do "advanced search" and "thread titles only' I usually find what I'm looking for


That's what I do, and I thought I searched for Wotan threads, but maybe I actually did not.

But it's funny that the "Other" option is currently quite high. Not what I was expecting. :lol:


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I'm undecided at the moment, but I'm 90% sure I know who my choice will be.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

OK, no reason to be indecisive. My favorite is Hans Hotter.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Schorr and James Morris


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Ulfilas said:


> Schorr and James Morris


To quote from the last (2002) Wagner Overview in the American Record Guide, Morris sings the role "...more beautifully than anyone since Schorr...". I also think his artistry is underrated.

As a sample I'd suggest the end of Rheingold, the end of Walküre, or the beginning of Act III of Siegfried. For me, he encompasses the heroic requirements more completely than any other singer in the stereo era.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

The Conte said:


> I know this is going to horrify some, but I think it's John Tomlinson (with Hotter a close second). Hotter can be very nasal at times in those Bayreuth Ring and I find that annoying.
> N.





> I feel like it's Schorr, Hotter, and then everyone else. Ferdinand Frantz, John Tomlinson, Donald Mcintyre probably deserve spots in the poll tho.


There may be technically better voices than Hotter, but no other I have heard can so fully render the complex emotion character of Wotan/Wanderer, his doubts and torments are wonderfully expressed.........

Bonetan there can be only one answer with your avatar, HH......


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Parsifal98 said:


> My favourite Wotan is Hans Reinmar!


Same, his performance here is magnificent! That is my absolute favorite recording of Wotan's farewell. No cloudiness or veiled tone, ringing high notes, clear diction, and sensitive use of registration. Great singing pure and simple!

Others who left great partial recordings include Hans Hermann Nissen, a famous Wotan in his day:





Joel Berglund





and Rudolf Bockelmann:





I don't think he ever sang it live, but what a Wotan we missed out on in Mark Reizen (also interesting to hear it sung in Russian):





For Wotans with complete records, probably Frantz is my favorite. I don't care for Hotter after the mid-1940s, to be honest. He was very good in the 1938 recording, but was never my favorite. By the 1950s his sound is often labored. To be honest, I do not hear hardly any of the "Shakespearean" characterization I often see him credited with (without details given). Instead, I hear a singer struggling to produce a steady sound. That leaves little room for characterization.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

DarkAngel said:


> There may be technically better voices than Hotter, but no other I have heard can so fully render the complex emotion character of Wotan/Wanderer, his doubts and torments are wonderfully expressed.........


Can you give an example of where you hear the complexity of Wotan's emotions expressed by Hotter, how his voice expresses them. As I said, I've never had this experience of his singing and I would like to understand where others get it from.


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Can you give an example of where you hear the complexity of Wotan's emotions expressed by Hotter, how his voice expresses them. As I said, I've never had this experience of his singing and I would like to understand where others get it from.


I'd try Act 2 of Die Walküre, Wotan's great monologue, from the live Bayreuth recording from 1953, conducted by Clemens Krauss.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Can you give an example of where you hear the complexity of Wotan's emotions expressed by Hotter, how his voice expresses them. As I said, I've never had this experience of his singing and I would like to understand where others get it from.





> For Wotans with complete records, probably Frantz is my favorite. I don't care for Hotter after the mid-1940s, to be honest. He was very good in the 1938 recording, but was never my favorite. By the 1950s his sound is often labored. To be honest, I do not hear hardly any of the "Shakespearean" characterization I often see him credited with (without details given). Instead, I hear a singer struggling to produce a steady sound. That leaves little room for characterization.


use same example as above of Wotans farewell (walkure), Reinmar is beautifully sung and technically great but lacks the passion and and torment of Hotter, you hear a "strained labored" voice for HH and I hear an artist wonderfully expressive, there is remorse, sorrow, defiance in his voice


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## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Same, his performance here is magnificent! That is my absolute favorite recording of Wotan's farewell. No cloudiness or veiled tone, ringing high notes, clear diction, and sensitive use of registration. Great singing pure and simple!
> 
> Others who left great partial recordings include Hans Hermann Nissen, a famous Wotan in his day:
> 
> ...


I find Frantz on the Furtwängler studio recording haunting in Act II. But less satisfying in Act III.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

DarkAngel said:


> use same example as above of Wotans farewell (walkure), Reinmar is beautifully sung and technically great but lacks the passion and and torment of Hotter, you hear a "strained labored" voice for HH and I hear an artist wonderfully expressive, there is remorse, sorrow, defiance in his voice


Ahh, yes!! Hotter's _Der augen leuchtendes paar_ is as devastated as it gets. At least I've yet to hear someone sing it more movingly than Hotter. I've quoted this elsewhere as well but Hotter wrote that Bruno Walter's advice formed the foundation of his interpretation of Wotan and he said that all the years throughout his long career he always followed Walter's advice he gave him when he was to sing Wotan's Farewell for the first time in public: "Throughout these twenty minutes, you should be constantly close to tears - not in reality but in your artistic imagination." I think you can hear this from Hotter's singing.


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

For me, the best combination of quality singing, plus modern recording, is hands down John Tomlinson.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I don't know if he ever sang the role on stage, but Alexander Kipnis made a fantastic recording of the Farewell:


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

DarkAngel said:


> use same example as above of Wotans farewell (walkure), Reinmar is beautifully sung and technically great but lacks the passion and and torment of Hotter, you hear a "strained labored" voice for HH and I hear an artist wonderfully expressive, there is remorse, sorrow, defiance in his voice





annaw said:


> Ahh, yes!! Hotter's _Der augen leuchtendes paar_ is as devastated as it gets. At least I've yet to hear someone sing it more movingly than Hotter. I've quoted this elsewhere as well but Hotter wrote that Bruno Walter's advice formed the foundation of his interpretation of Wotan and he said that all the years throughout his long career he always followed Walter's advice he gave him when he was to sing Wotan's Farewell for the first time in public: "Throughout these twenty minutes, you should be constantly close to tears - not in reality but in your artistic imagination." I think you can hear this from Hotter's singing.


Interesting. I find Reinmar much more expressive. I think he has a somewhat different interpretation of the scene, but I find the way he modulates between declamatory and highly legato singing and chest dominant and head dominant tone to be very moving. For example, the "Der Augen leuchtendes paar" section is well contrasted with the opening. Reinmar makes the tone pure and heady, and diminuendos during the phrases, which are sung with superb legato. 4:52-5:05 in the Reinmar performance sounds as close to tears as any signing I've heard. The overall effect is a profound but staid sadness, for me anyway.


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Interesting. I find Reinmar much more expressive. I think he has a somewhat different interpretation of the scene, but I find the way he modulates between declamatory and highly legato singing and chest dominant and head dominant tone to be very moving. For example, the "Der Augen leuchtendes paar" section is well contrasted with the opening. Reinmar makes the tone pure and heady, and diminuendos during the phrases, which are sung with superb legato. 4:52-5:05 in the Reinmar performance sounds as close to tears as any signing I've heard. The overall effect is a profound but staid sadness, for me anyway.


I completely agree with what you say. I was just listening to this performance and you can really feel Wotan/Reimar's pain in the "Der Augen leuchtendes paar". And the legato is absolutely amazing! And one can also feel Hotter's pain, but I think it is partially obstructed by the nasality of his voice. By the way, I do not believe Hotter's prime was during the 50s. Just listen to him singing Wotan's farewell in 1942:






His voice is more clear and not nasal. Even better, there is no wobble. A great performance, even though I still prefer Reinmar!


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

wkasimer said:


> I don't know if he ever sang the role on stage, but Alexander Kipnis made a fantastic recording of the Farewell:


I do like this performance because for me Kipnis does have a more overtly emotional delivery, WK is correct he did not perform Wotan for any MET performance (archive search) but instead was the go to Hundig during 1940s MET wagner performances, also King Marke (tristan) and a few Gurnemanz (parsifal) he has a noticeably darker tone than Hotter.......

On the strength of this performance MET management should have given him a few Wotan roles and find another Hundig


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Parsifal98 said:


> I completely agree with what you say. I was just listening to this performance and you can really feel Wotan/Reimar's pain in the "Der Augen leuchtendes paar". And the legato is absolutely amazing! And one can also feel Hotter's pain, but I think it is partially obstructed by the nasality of his voice. By the way, I do not believe Hotter's prime was during the 50s. Just listen to him singing Wotan's farewell in 1942:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hotter is definitely in fresher cleaner voice in 1942 wonderful performance, but stylistically still the same for me as his 1950s bayreuth, and I still find slightly more emotional expression in that 56 live bayreuth performance perhaps because of bayreuth festival setting even though he will soon retire the role and sounds more labored vs 1942


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Parsifal98 said:


> I completely agree with what you say. I was just listening to this performance and you can really feel Wotan/Reimar's pain in the "Der Augen leuchtendes paar". And the legato is absolutely amazing! And one can also feel Hotter's pain, but I think it is partially obstructed by the nasality of his voice. By the way, I do not believe Hotter's prime was during the 50s. Just listen to him singing Wotan's farewell in 1942:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is very interesting, but I still prefer his later, richer voice from the 1950s.



DarkAngel said:


> Hotter is definitely in fresher cleaner voice in 1942 wonderful performance, but stylistically still the same for me as his 1950s bayreuth, and I still find slightly more emotional expression in that 56 live bayreuth performance perhaps because of bayreuth festival setting even though he will soon retire the role and sounds more labored vs 1942


Yes, I find this 1942 performance less emotionally inspired than the performances he did later.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> I do like this performance because for me Kipnis does have a more overtly emotional delivery, WK is correct he did not perform Wotan for any MET performance (archive search) but instead was the go to Hundig during 1940s MET wagner performances, also King Marke (tristan) and a few Gurnemanz (parsifal) he has a noticeably darker tone than Hotter.......
> 
> On the strength of this performance MET management should have given him a few Wotan roles and find another Hundig (Melchior won't mind right?)


Back in those days did the Met tend to choose one Wotan for all 3 or did they mix and match? I ask because I think there's probably no way Kipnis could sing the Wanderer. Maybe he could sing Walkure, but that gets quite high for a bass too...


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

^^^ The few MET complete Rings done in 1940s (archives) seemed to most often use different singer for Wotan and Wanderer, Schorr very early 1940s then Janssen, Huen, Berglund got most performances......most Ring operas just done individually back then 

Melchior was go to Siegfried and Siegmund for Ring operas.....


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

DarkAngel said:


> ^^^ The few MET complete Rings done in 1940s (archives) seemed to most often use different singer for Wotan and Wanderer, Schorr very early 1940s then Janssen, Huen, Berglund got most performances......most Ring operas just done individually back then
> 
> Melchior was go to Siegfried and Siegmund for Ring operas.....


That's really interesting. I think I'm going to have to take a dive into these archives too!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

In more modern times, they use a younger singer for *Das Rheingold*. I suppose the _tessitura_ is higher in *Die Walküre*, lower in *Siegfried*. the Wanderer being an older, tired man.

When San Francisco Opera did the *Ring Cycle* in the 1980s, James Morris sang Wotan in all three operas. Terry McEwen talked him into singing it for his first *Ring Cycle*. His sonorous, mahogany-colored, rolling voice was magnificent, and he dominated the scenes he was in, like a Wotan should. His Brünhildes in those days were Gwyneth Jones, Janis Martin, and a young Hildegard Behrens. His Fricka and Erda was Helga Dernesch. Those were the days.

Previously, Thomas Stewart was Wotan whenever we needed one. A medium weight baritone, he was able to encompass all three roles and sang them superbly, adding a wonderful gravitas as the Wanderer.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Bonetan said:


> That's really interesting. I think I'm going to have to take a dive into these archives too!


I recommend you do! There's lots of interesting stuff to look at. You can find reviews for many performances and get an idea of different singers' repertoire that might not be obvious from just looking at recordings. It's also interesting to note how many times a singer sang at the MET and look at various casts that were assembled. And there are a few pictures as well.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

MAS said:


> In more modern times, they use a younger singer for *Das Rheingold*. I suppose the _tessitura_ is higher in *Die Walküre*, lower in *Siegfried*. the Wanderer being an older, tired man.
> 
> When San Francisco Opera did the *Ring Cycle* in the 1980s, James Morris sang Wotan in all three operas. Terry McEwen talked him into singing it for his first *Ring Cycle*. His sonorous, mahogany-colored, rolling voice was magnificent, and he dominated the scenes he was in, like a Wotan should. His Brünhildes in those days were Gwyneth Jones, Janis Martin, and a young Hildegard Behrens. His Fricka and Erda was Helga Dernesch. Those were the days.
> 
> Previously, Thomas Stewart was Wotan whenever we needed one. A medium weight baritone, he was able to encompass all three roles and sang them superbly, adding a wonderful gravitas as the Wanderer.


The tessitura is actually highest for the Wanderer, particularly in act 3. That act is the biggest reason basses don't sing Wotan. Walkure is the lowest, mainly in the act 2 monologue. That act is the biggest reason baritones don't sing Wotan lol


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I second my praise for Donald McIntyre, but I would really like to appreciate the opposite direction that Theo Adam takes compared to my favourite, Hans Hotter. Adam represented in the late 60s and early 70s the type of young Wotan that would star in the last generation of great Wagner singers. He is definetely in average level in the Janowski Ring. But the recordings where I point out the passion and intensity he brought to Wotan are in the Böhm _Ring_ (_Das Rheingold_ from 1965 in mono and _Die Walküre_ and _Siegfried_ in 1967-67 in stereo).

It's been too long since I last listened to Hermann Uhde or Thomas Stewart playing Wotan. I don't really like George London when he sung it in 1962.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Bonetan said:


> The tessitura is actually highest for the Wanderer, particularly in act 3. That act is the biggest reason basses don't sing Wotan. Walkure is the lowest, mainly in the act 2 monologue. That act is the biggest reason baritones don't sing Wotan lol


*Thank you!* I don't pay much attention to the lower male voices, so I had no idea!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Granate said:


> I second my praise for Donald McIntyre, but I would really like to appreciate the opposite direction that Theo Adam takes compared to my favourite, Hans Hotter. Adam represented in the late 60s and early 70s the type of young Wotan that would star in the last generation of great Wagner singers. He is definetely in average level in the Janowski Ring. But the recordings where I point out the passion and intensity he brought to Wotan are in the Böhm _Ring_ (_Das Rheingold_ from 1965 in mono and _Die Walküre_ and _Siegfried_ in 1967-67 in stereo).


Adam is pretty good in the 1968 Rome Siegfried, too, conducted by Sawallisch.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Parsifal98 said:


> My favourite Wotan is Hans Reinmar!


I assume you've seen this amazing video? I feel like it's been posted before but I can't recall lol






If it's not working


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## Parsifal98 (Apr 29, 2020)

Bonetan said:


> I assume you've seen this amazing video? I feel like it's been posted before but I can't recall lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I posted it in the thread concerning the state of modern operatic singing (went a bit under the radar...)! It is indeed an amazing video! To think that we can watch and hear such an artist performing in 1936! Even better, we can clearly see his singing technique. A great tool for emulation!


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Hotter does have a 1965 video of Wotan's farewell, voice even more strained than 56 Bayreuth sample (and that more than 42 youtube sample) but his consumate skill in vocal expression and characterization, the emotions of torment and sorrow of losing his beloved daughter on full display with his facial expressions to amplify the effect, such a feel for following the music......the pronounced word at 2:34 (the god) is so effective any other version seems like a mistake without it

Callas once was asked how she decided to sing/act scences a certain way, she famously replied if she was unsure all one had to do was listen to the music since the composer had already deeply considered these things while composing the score.....








> Farewell, thou valiant, glorious child!
> Thou once the holiest pride of my heart!
> Farewell! farewell! farewell!
> _(very passionately) Must I forsake thee,
> ...


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Giuseppe Bellantoni!


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Parsifal98 said:


> My favourite Wotan is Hans Reinmar!


Fabulous sound from an early recording! Leave it to the Germans!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I wanted to include a Wotan piece for the contest but everything he sings is so long winded to try to fit in a reasonable time slot.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wanted to include a Wotan piece for the contest but everything he sings is so long winded to try to fit in a reasonable time slot.


The farewell is the only sensible option. If people find it too long thay can skip the fire music or, if they're soulless philistines, the sublime interlude after "der freier als ich, der Gott!"


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> The farewell is the only sensible option. If people find it too long thay can skip the fire music or, if they're soulless philistines, the sublime interlude after "der freier als ich, der Gott!"


It is glorious. Maybe later in the contests.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Norman Bailey. Anyone who can sign the Walkure farewell to very-late-Klemperer tempo deserves to be included.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wanted to include a Wotan piece for the contest but everything he sings is so long winded to try to fit in a reasonable time slot.


A couple of other potential passages might be the passage that begins with "So nimm meinen Segen, Nibelungensohn" in Act 2, or "Wo ist Brünnhild'" from Act 3. Or you could use the first third of the Abschied.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I second John Tomlinson’s nomination above some of those named in the poll. He’s the _raison d’être _for my owning the Barenboim *Ring.*


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

Granate said:


> I second my praise for Donald McIntyre, but I would really like to appreciate the opposite direction that Theo Adam takes compared to my favourite, Hans Hotter. Adam represented in the late 60s and early 70s the type of young Wotan that would star in the last generation of great Wagner singers. He is definetely in average level in the Janowski Ring. But the recordings where I point out the passion and intensity he brought to Wotan are in the Böhm _Ring_ (_Das Rheingold_ from 1965 in mono and _Die Walküre_ and _Siegfried_ in 1967-67 in stereo).


I read somewhere that an early interpreter of Wotan remarked to Wagner that he found the role "daemonic", to which Wagner replied "Yes, precisely, sing it that way."

I've always thought Theo Adam sings it that way. Adam was never afraid to go out on the edge to sing Wotan. Just listen to how he scares the be-jeebers out of Mime in Siegfried. Adam's technique may have faltered here and there, but the drama never did. His Wotan was "mad, bad and dangerous" to know. A far cry from the nobility of earlier stand-and-deliver Wotan's.

Other favourite Wotan's? 1950s Hotter is good, but Tomlinson, MacIntyre and Bailey all bring unique and wonderful things to the role.


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