# Viola



## Nox

Well, now that I've had my viola for several months I must say that I absolutely love the sound of it...:wub:

...but my alto clef reading isn't coming along very fast... :angry: 

...I've just been playing it as if it were a violin, using the same music I play on violin, just to develop my technique on it as well...a little different...have to stretch my hand much more...

...my violin playing has improved considerably since I started the viola...I think my finger placement has become more flexible because of the stretching...  

...all the easy viola music I've purchased isn't very inspirational either...most is just a transcription of easy violin music that I already have... <_<


----------



## Nox

I also have a question...part of the beauty of the sound of the viola (for me at least) lies in it's lower registers...on the C and G strings...(pulls at my heart strings) yet most of the viola music I've looked at is played in the upper registars...esp. high up on the A string (where the E string would be on a violin)...

...if you're going to primarily play way up there...where a violin sounds much better...what's the point?


----------



## Daniel

I love the viola tone too! I think the thing with the lower registers is that they are the special range which only Viola has in that way. But higher registers have also such a warm tone!

You will be kissed in all orchestras as you are a violist, because they are so rare. A perfect instrument to get into orchestras


----------



## Nox

...ah yes...I just have to learn to play it first...


----------



## 009

I think each type of instruments has its own unique tone colour.
So to me a viola will not sound same or inferior as compared to the violin on higher register.
I don't think it's fair to compare this way... the violion is sweet, silvery , and the viola is just lush and warm, and incredibly 'open' compared to the violin on higher registers. But we often hear too many bad viola versions...it's hard enough to play the viola( not everyone will manage to pull this off, u need really strong and big hands), but to get the broad open tone in upper registers just makes it more impossible.


----------



## Nox

I think you're right...it's not fair to compare the sound in the same registar, but I still think the lower strings aren't utilized as much as they should.


----------



## oistrach13

I just adore the viola, even though the only recording I have are as follows:

mozert symphonia concertante with heifetz and primrose, and with oistrach and oistrach junior

historical recording of brahms sonatas with primrose

the first thing I will do once I get very good with a violin is get myself a viola.

I have big hands, and I love the sound, the looks, and the feelings


----------



## Nox

...I think you should get one too...they sound divine!


----------



## becky

Back in high school I started to learn how to play the viola, but it's been so long I can't read the clef anymore. Sometimes I think I should've switched to viola in school because I love the notes in the lower register. Maybe if I took viola I would've ended up majoring in music like I originally intended. I think I may keep my sights out for an affordable viola (I think I may be going back to work soon.) I still have my beginning viola book!


----------



## Daniel

Reading the clef is very easy, if you practise it for 2 weeks, you get used to it very fast.


----------



## Daniel

Reading the clef is very easy, if you practise it for 2 weeks, you will get used to it very fast.


----------



## Nox

I must be practicing wrong...because it's been about 4 months and I still can't read to speed...I know what all the lines and spaces are, but I still get lost, or find I've inadvertantly shifted to playing as if it were treble clef... :angry: 

...I can't get past familiar kindergarten tunes...


----------



## oistrach13

I'm sure it'll work out soon, you should be happy, I can't even read treble quickly, or even relatively slowly, my recorder playing is suffering.


----------



## oistrach13

you should see me when I switched from my sisters soprano recorder to my new alto  I kept transposing everything down :blink:


----------



## Nox

...poor O! I luv the recorder, btw...

...well, I was hoping I'd be up to speed on the alto clef by Sept., so I could maybe play viola in an ensemble if I can't get a spot as a 2nd violin...but I have to be able to read the music (my actual sound on the viola is almost as good as on the violin ...still a little shaky reaching with my pinky for 4th...but otherwise I sound good)...


----------



## oistrach13

glad to hear that

I love the recorder too, but it's so unstable, I feel I am on a high wire all the time, will that high G work this time :blink:


----------



## Quaverion

Now that you have got me interested in viola as well, I guess after I save up enough $ for the $2000 bow (I decided I will get it) I will have to get a nice viola. Maybe I can start a collection...


----------



## Nox

...O - you need to download a recorder recording for us...:guitar:

...and R - previously known as Q (just curious ...why the name change???)...is now officially addicted...LOL...glad to hear you're getting the bow...I just made that suggestion in a previous thread...


----------



## oistrach13

download or upload?  

what shall I play :blink:


----------



## Nox

Sorry! You upload...and then I download! ...

...play whatever you like the most!...


----------



## oistrach13

maybe if daniel would write me something easy  

my mic is horrible by the way, so all the smooth creaminess in the tone of my alto will run away. (plastic recorders are very mellow, not too resposive though <_< )


----------



## Nox

...I saw some very nice wooden recorders at Long and McQuade (our local music 'chain') that weren't all that expensive...I wonder what they sound like?...


----------



## Quaverion

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Aug 2 2004, 11:17 AM
> *just curious ...why the name change???
> [snapback]1054[/snapback]​*


I used Quaverion in SoloViolin, and it seemed kind of old. Rhad I think is better. It has a lot of neat history behind it. B)


----------



## Nox

...gonna share the history? ...


----------



## Quaverion

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Aug 3 2004, 05:56 PM
> *...gonna share the history? ...
> [snapback]1118[/snapback]​*


The ancient Greeks actually invaded Greece from somewhere else, I don't know where. When they came to what is now Greece, there were people there already, who spoke what is like "pre-Greek." They were called the Aegeans. Their word for "devil" was Rhadamanthys. I thought it was good because the violin is the devil's instrument. B)


----------



## Nox

...now that's very interesting! Thanks...and can we call you Rhad for short???...


----------



## Quaverion

> _Originally posted by Nox_@Aug 3 2004, 07:55 PM
> *...now that's very interesting! Thanks...and can we call you Rhad for short???...
> [snapback]1126[/snapback]​*


Yeah, sure. I was actually going to say that myself.


----------



## Nox

Thanks! Rhad it is!

I just came from the library...borrowed the Suzuki Violin CDs...

...and I found a viola series called 'The Recorded Viola (The History of the Viola on Record)' ... with Vol. 1 and 2 at hand...and just found out there's also Vols. 3 and 4...I haven't listened to them yet...but they look very cool...(Gemm CDs)...


----------



## oistrach13

:blink:


> _Originally posted by Nox_@Aug 3 2004, 03:01 PM
> *...I saw some very nice wooden recorders at Long and McQuade (our local music 'chain') that weren't all that expensive...I wonder what they sound like?...
> [snapback]1106[/snapback]​*


both the price and the sound would depend on the wood, and the size.

not all that expensive? then they are probably pearwood, or maple, which would have a very soft mellow sound, not exactly loud (or resoponsive), and unsuitable for solo work, their only advantage is that they are very cheap.

of course there are other alternatives, kingswood being horribly beautiful, excellent sounding, and obscenely expensive.

grenadilla (clarinet-wood  ) is the usual solo instrument, also expensive

ebony is wonderful, but also expensive.

olive wood (my favourite) is excellent, but olive recorders are very rare, and consequently rather expensive.

shouldn't we move this to its own thread?


----------



## Quaverion

> _Originally posted by oistrach13_@Aug 5 2004, 04:49 AM
> *shouldn't we move this to its own thread?
> [snapback]1217[/snapback]​*


Should I move it? How would I do that? I haven't gotten a reason to use any of my moderatotion powers yet...  Do I just select all of the posts I want to move and select move post?


----------



## oistrach13

ask james :lol:


----------



## Nox

I came across a series of CD sets on the History of Recorded Viola music...how cool is that??? They even have (very scratchy) copies of recording done way back around 1910...

...boy...some of them sound rather awful...I don't know if the quality of the original recording (not this re-re-recording) or earlier violists just didn't play very well...


----------



## oistrach13

did you find any tertis in there?

I like primrose alot, but his tone is too altoish, I like tenors 

currently (and strangely enough) my favourite violist is [drumroll] David Oistrach :blink:


----------



## Daniel

Oistrach with viola is awesome, like his violin playing  amazing!!! So charming when he plays duets with Igor.


----------



## Nox

...yes, they have examples of recordings of Tertis (which I listened to already...in sequence) and Primrose (just listening to him now)...still have 1 1/2 CDs to go in the two sets I have on hand...

...wish I had the other two too!...


----------



## oistrach13

nice.


----------



## Nox

It's a great collection...esp. from a historical perspective...

...listened to Hindemith...

...there are a couple of songs on there I really like...must see if I can get them...they weren't the extremely virtuostic works...sounded simpler...hopefully I can manage...


----------



## oistrach13

so, how is it so far?

you know, I am sure everybody would love to hear you play some viola music


----------



## Nox

Well now...I need a mike...and someone to show me how to record with the computer...then I'll give it a try...

...but nothing fancy...at least with the easy stuff I can fake it...


----------



## oistrach13

*excited by prospect of hearing nox*

we can barely wait


----------



## Nox

> _Originally posted by oistrach13_@Aug 20 2004, 02:20 PM
> **excited by prospect of hearing nox*
> 
> we can barely wait
> [snapback]1582[/snapback]​*


...don't hold your breath or anything...likely not until this fall sometime...need to have few lessons again after the summer off...(from lessons that is, not practicing...I've been practicing every day!)...


----------



## oistrach13

ah well.

I am learning lensky's aria from eugene onegin on recorder. once I get through the rough spots at the end, I'll see if I can put it up.


----------



## oistrach13

well, the rough spots are pretty much still there. I also don't have the patience to learn the ending, which is why the recording ends when lensky says "no ti, ti, olga". which is about two thirds through the aria. 
try not to be put off by the tone, it really doesn't sound like that in real life, I'm recording through a $5 headset.
some faults however are not from the mic: notice the weak lower register, the shaky notes, the horrible articulation, the excessive rubato, and useless slides which happened because I was too lazy to use my tongue etc... (not to mention the intonation )


----------



## Nox

...well, it's likely my computer...but I wasn't able to hear it after it downloaded...sorry!...


----------



## oistrach13

hmm. I don't know what the problem could be. I will see if I could put it in a different format tomorrow (maybe even rerecord it, which would be much better <_< )


----------



## Harvey

I can hear it.


----------



## Daniel

Well done, oistrach!!!


----------



## oistrach13

it is horrible. I need to record it again <_<.

I've noticed something, I always seem to play better when there is some audience, usually my mother or sister, or when the acoustics are resonant, but not too much, such as my living room. unfortunately, the pc is in my bedroom, and I am recording through a very short distance mic (5$ headset :angry, this means that both an audience or good acoustics are not available.


----------



## Kate

Personally, I feel the Alto clef makes a lot of sense. I can't read the bass clef very well- i've recently started the piano and the bass clef and the higher notes of treble are giving me a bit of grief.


----------



## Nox

...I'll agree it makes sense...but I'm so comfortable in treble...and almost as comfortable in bass...the alto just confuses me...LOL...


----------



## Daniel

You should play for some days only alto clef...also with your violin....(just think one note down, or personally I think it up from bass clef, I don't know why, just my habbit :lol.


----------



## Nox

...you're right...I should...I even found a beginner series for the viola that mixes scales in with simple studies...I should go to town on that...


----------



## godzillaviolist

*high rage and the a-string*



Nox said:


> I also have a question...part of the beauty of the sound of the viola (for me at least) lies in it's lower registers...on the C and G strings...(pulls at my heart strings) yet most of the viola music I've looked at is played in the upper registars...esp. high up on the A string (where the E string would be on a violin)...
> 
> ...if you're going to primarily play way up there...where a violin sounds much better...what's the point?


 Hmm... by that logic the 'cello shouldn't go high on the A string either, as that covers the best ranges of both violin and viola. But... the 'cello A string is also one of the most moving sounds a 'cello can produce ( who could forget the end scene in Strauss' Don Quixote? )
I'd say that the viola A-string is so distincive it use should continue. I preffer the main bulk of the melody being played on the G D and A strings with the C string being used for dramatic accent. I find that the A-string retains it's colour much more than the rather "crystaline" violin E-string.
For an example of great playing in this register, I'd reccomend listening to the 1985 recording Rivka Golani playing "Chromatic Fantasia for solo viola".
This is not to say the lower register shouldn't be used, I just think it shouldn't over-used.


----------



## James

godzillaviolist said:


> Hmm... by that logic the 'cello shouldn't go high on the A string either, as that covers the best ranges of both violin and viola. But... the 'cello A string is also one of the most moving sounds a 'cello can produce ( who could forget the end scene in Strauss' Don Quixote? )
> I'd say that the viola A-string is so distincive it use should continue. I preffer the main bulk of the melody being played on the G D and A strings with the C string being used for dramatic accent. I find that the A-string retains it's colour much more than the rather "crystaline" violin E-string.
> For an example of great playing in this register, I'd reccomend listening to the 1985 recording Rivka Golani playing "Chromatic Fantasia for solo viola".
> This is not to say the lower register shouldn't be used, I just think it shouldn't over-used.


Hello godzillaviolist, welcome to the forums!

The viola A D G strings I like very much - warm and A has certain qualities of a cello A. However I'm not a big fan of the viola C - perhaps because I don't often hear good viola players. Viola C can sound odd, don't you think?


----------



## godzillaviolist

James said:


> Hello godzillaviolist, welcome to the forums!
> 
> The viola A D G strings I like very much - warm and A has certain qualities of a cello A. However I'm not a big fan of the viola C - perhaps because I don't often hear good viola players. Viola C can sound odd, don't you think?


 Thanks for the welcome!
A very good viola player can get a wonderfull sound out of the c-string; kind of dark, sweet, thick, very much like a heavy baritone voice. But this sound can wear on one after a few minutes! I like it when it's used for just a few moments to add "darkness" to a peice. But it can get tireseome.
As for my own viola playing, the c-string sounds like a giant bug trapped in the plumbing  
But I'll get better  
godzilla


----------



## James

I was going to say a bad viola C sounds like somebody's lower end.


----------



## godzillaviolist

James said:


> I was going to say a bad viola C sounds like somebody's lower end.


 On the other side of the question, is bad violin e is any better? Several of the violin students I know sound like squirels being squeezed when they hit the high notes... Also, violinists switching over to viola are often the ones responsible  
I'd say from listening to viola students the c-string progress is as follows:

1. fart sound 
2. bug sound 
3. rough sound 
4. dull sound
5. good sound
6. excellent sound

I'm a number two, moving on to three soon. 
As for the best sound, I'd say it's the d string on both violin and viola, but thats just my opinion.
godzilla


----------



## xretrojapan

When I first started out on Viola, maybe 5 years ago (I think), the C-string was my strong point. But for most beginners they master the A and D.


----------



## godzillaviolist

xretrojapan said:


> When I first started out on Viola, maybe 5 years ago (I think), the C-string was my strong point. But for most beginners they master the A and D.


The c-string still gives me trouble in terms of reaction time: my fingers and bow tend be faster than the c-string is willing to speak. Allegro sixteenth notes nearly always tend to sound too soft. 
But I remain optimistic that things will improve with practice. Everything else has.


----------



## godzillaviolist

*Testing*

<Post deleted for lack of purpose and a feeling of general ennui that overtook me while writing it>


----------



## ikklebassoonist

I might be lucky enough to be having a quick blast at the viola in case one of my orchestras needs one, as both the viola players in my school have quit playing!
Fingers crossed I can pick up the cleff, as I can read bass tenor and treble pretty well.


----------



## ClassyHussy

Viola is a beautiful instrument. I'm currently borrowing one from school for the summer (Can you say awesome?).

I guess a tip for reading the alto (and I'm a bit suprised that no one mentioned it) is that the middle line (where B would be on the treble clef) is middle C.


----------



## World Violist

I have very long and narrow fingers, so playing the violin is very awkward for me; I often find myself using very unorthodox fingerings (and that's saying something; I already do that on the viola!). It's for this reason that I feel more "at home" on the viola; violin finger placement is too close, and the cello's strings are too thick for my fingers to really hold yet.


----------



## music5

I started my viola lesson 8 months ago. At first, I find it very difficult to read the alto clef and at the same time the placement of my fingers in the fingerboard. After few lessons, my viola teacher requires me to attend in the rehearsals of the school chamber orchestra. I am hesitant to attend then because i know i can not be able to play with the chamber orchestra. But my teacher insisted me to attend because according to him, it will help me in reading the alto clef. He said that it is okay if my fingers can not follow as long as my eyes can follow in reading the pieces. So, i was convinced to attend regularly in their rehearsals. And later on, i noticed that i am improving in reading the alto clef and at the same time, my fingers are improving also. During lessons, i find my Suzuki pieces more easier now. So, for those who wants to improve their reading in the alto clef, try to sit-in in the string ensemble or chamber orchestra rehearsals. It can help you a lot and also practice regularly. As of now, i am still working on the vibrato and good intonation of my left fingers. I would like also to ask your help, if anyone here knows some easy pieces for solo viola?


----------



## Frasier

I came along with the Kinsey Studies. The first set is easy - as you already play, the second set might be appropriate. They deal with technique up to about Grade 5 (ABRSM) - varied bowing, spiccato, staccato, martellato, chromatics, trills etc. The final set takes you up to 5th position (which I find uncomfortable on the lower strings!) and 4 sharps and flats. Some of them are quite musical as well being studies.

http://www.musicroom.com/Search/gsearch.aspx?searchtext=kinsey+viola

Playing in an orchestra is great experience.


----------



## Lexophile

I recently switched to viola, and I love it! I'm six feet tall, so naturally I have really long fingers and arms, and big hands as well, and playing the viola is much more natural than playing the violin now. I was having some trouble when I first started playing viola for fun as far as reading alto clef goes. However, when I picked it up again about seven months ago and was thrown into the viola secion in orchestra, (one of the first pieces we played was Tchaikovsky's Serenade for Strings). THEN I learned how to read alto cleft, (and quickly too). I started out on a fifteen and a half inch, and then recently switched to a seventeen inch. I can play it no problem, it fits me well. But, I heard that I would probably be more comfy playing a sixteen and a half. Anybody got any advice on this? 

(BTW: Bruch Romance for Viola is a great piece, pretty challenging, but beautiful. It uses all the strings alot, and has a beautiful melody that will get stuck in your head after no time. Yuri Bashmet has a great recording of it.)


----------



## World Violist

You should try Rebecca Clarke's Passacaglia for viola and piano. It's really just amazing; it uses both upper and lower registers very well. (Clarke was a violist par excellence)


----------



## Methodistgirl

I played a viola once. I liked it except that the one who owned the instrument
didn't have it tuned right and tried to tune it like a violin. This made the viola
sound awful until I remembered how a cello was tuned. A viola is tuned an
octive higher and then I played it and loved it. There was one more problem.
My arm and shoulder got tired after a while because of it's weight. They do
weigh more than a violin and is a bit longer. As the first song on it I played
Sweet Hour of Prayer on this viola and it sounded beautiful. I don't read 
music too well so I played it by ear that evening. This was a Barcus viola
like the members of Electric Light Orchestra plays.
judy tooley


----------



## oisfetz

Confort your self considering you didn't have to play the gigantic viola that Lionel Tertis use to play with. That was a viola!


----------



## Lexophile

I adore my large viola. I plan on buying a seventeen or sixteen and a half inch when I buy one. And I will definately look into Passacaglia. I'm always scouting for new music. My mom bought me for my birthday, the Schumann Marchenbilder, Scubert Sonata per Arpeggione, and Brahms Clarinet Sonatas, which can be played on viola as well. I'm so incredibly excited, they're all so beautiful. I only have to wait like three more days... =D


----------



## World Violist

Those are really hard pieces... especially the Brahms F minor. The stretches there are crazy, no matter what kind of violinist you were.


----------



## Methodistgirl

oisfetz said:


> Confort your self considering you didn't have to play the gigantic viola that Lionel Tertis use to play with. That was a viola!


It was a big one. It was the length of my arm. It was a beautiful instrument. I did
also play a cello the size of my flat top guitar.
judy tooley


----------



## altiste

I signed up to this forum as "altiste" which is French for violist. Altiste comes from alto which is French for viola, although sometimes this can cause confusion with alto as in singer, so strictly speaking it's better to use the full form "violon-alto" as the name for the instrument. 

I switched to the viola from violin over twenty year's ago now, to complete a chamber music formation. I've never looked back.


----------



## oisfetz

Say,altiste; do you know Pierre Lénert?. I've 2 CDs by him and IMO he's one
of the best viola players I ever heard. What do you think?


----------



## altiste

*UT3-Records*

I agree that Pierre Lénert is a wonderful player. One of his viola-playing colleagues in the Opera Orchestra, Diederik Suys, is Director of UT3-Records (http://www.ut3-records.com/web/index.php). Do you know of this label?


----------



## oisfetz

No, sorry. The 2 CDs I´ve are on Syrius (Paganini and complete Vieuxtemps)


----------



## Keenamateur

*keenamateur*

If you are having difficuly in getting viola music------just retranscribe any tune that takes your fancy and play in a different key!!!!!.
One that suits the viola of course.
Take this from piano music too----------keep trying it will come!!!!


----------



## Jue

I need a new resin for my viola. Any suggestions, please? 
Thankyou


----------

