# What is it about French String Quartets?



## Head_case

Does anyone listen to French string quartets here?

Apart from the famous Dutilleux, Fauré, Debussy and Ravel individual string quartets, what else is there?

Here's some which I have:

Chausson 
Vincent d'Indy
Franck (well, every Belgian can be either French or German, right? (j/k) 
Dusapin
Enesco (Romanian resident in France)
Martinu (does he fit here?)
Foulds (well, he lived in France mostly, rather than England)

Of these less played quartets, it is probably Enesco who grips me the most. His string quartets are strange peculiar. I have two versions of it, and they both sound radically different. 

What other French string quartets do you listen to and would recommend? Apart from the first 4 quartets, I'd be hard pressed to recommend any of these quartets......namely because they seem so difficult to get into.


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## jurianbai

Apart from your list you should definitely listen to Darius Milhaud. Check his innovation where 2 sets of string quartets can be performed as combined or octet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Darius_Milhaud#Chamber_and_instrumental

And also how about Saint Saens, I not yet got his recording. and then the standard French SQ will also included Cesar Francks' , which is also I never heard yet.


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## joen_cph

Still need to become acquainted more with this sub-genre, 
but:
Honegger (3); Magnard (1)
and (less interesting perhaps): Roussel (1), Tailleferre (1),
Chevalier de St.Georges (about 20), Nigg (1), Gounod (2),
Betsy Jolas (several), Jolivet ...

Jean Cras also wrote one, he´s very good, but I haven´t heard it;

Guy Ropartz wrote a buch that have just become available on e-music.

But just found this site with an incredible list of quartet composers:
http://www.lexnet.dk/music/quartets/d-quarte.htm. Search "Music", "Compositions".


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## Head_case

jurianbai said:


> Apart from your list you should definitely listen to Darius Milhaud. Check his innovation where 2 sets of string quartets can be performed as combined or octet.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Darius_Milhaud#Chamber_and_instrumental
> 
> And also how about Saint Saens, I not yet got his recording. and then the standard French SQ will also included Cesar Francks' , which is also I never heard yet.


Thanks for your thoughts Jurianbai. They kind of confirm in my mind, why it is I don't appreciate French string quartets any more than I do.

I listened to most of the cycle of Milhaud's 18 or so quartets. Only the Quartetto Italiano's excellent version of Qt XII stood out for me. It was the centenary quartet, celebrating the birth of Gabriel Fauré. The Qts XIV & XV which can be scripted for Octet as you describe, are the ones I didn't hear. Milhaud's problem is that his work is so patchy and derivative: I felt like I'd wasted hours of my life with the first 10 or so of his quartets, none of which have a voice, except for being aggrandized into the 'Les Six' under Cocteau, and being a bit too showy and sensationalist without enduring substance.

If you can recommend any recordings of the later quartets, I'd certainly try them, although 1 quartet out of 18 is a pretty dire hit rate 

Saint Saens probably captures the exact reason why I find French string quartet generally lifeless: perfect and emotionless. Apart from those great 4 pieces.......the rest of the repertoire, I'm still in ignorance about.....


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## Head_case

joen_cph said:


> Still need to become acquainted more with this sub-genre,
> but:
> Honegger (3); Magnard (1)
> and (less interesting perhaps): Roussel (1), Tailleferre (1),
> Chevalier de St.Georges (about 20), Nigg (1), Gounod (2),
> Betsy Jolas (several), Jolivet ...
> 
> Jean Cras also wrote one, he´s very good, but I haven´t heard it;
> 
> Guy Ropartz wrote a buch that have just become available on e-music.
> 
> But just found this site with an incredible list of quartet composers:
> http://www.lexnet.dk/music/quartets/d-quarte.htm. Search "Music", "Compositions".


Thanks Joen ~ apart from Roussel (who I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend anyone), I only knowo f Tailleferre through her work, tacked on the end of a Milhaud string quartet, with a definite feminine introversion, as opposed to Les Six' extroversion.

Can you recommend any recordings of these?

The Lexnet reference is more of a cataloguing system, rather than a reference recordings catalogue. It's incredible looking at it. I had to check some of my favourite works there, just to make sure they were indeed 'complete' and no other hidden/unpublished versions remained waiting to be discovered lol.


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## joen_cph

As regards the Honegger quartets I found the Erato quartet
on Aura more convincing than Quatuor Ludwig on Timpani. 
However the Timpani multiple cd-set includes, as far as 
I remember, the complete chamber works of Honegger, 
among which there are many small treasures. Also I have 
thousands of recordings & my judgments can be a bit
superficial; in general, I prefer passionate music-making,
though, rather than an "objective" rendering of notes.

The Tailleferre is a very small work, its 4 movements 
lasting only 10 mins, so it is mainly for completists, not 
worth a lot of trouble I think, and without the masterly 
condensed intensity of, say, Ruth Crawford Seegers quartet 
(R C-S: best recording is the Concord4 on nonesuch, I think).


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## joen_cph

Sorry, had to read your entry twice - you seem to know the
Tailleferre already. As regards the Magnard, there is a
recording on Erato, the string sound is a bit hard, but it´s
the only one I know.


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## jurianbai

Head_case said:


> Milhaud's problem is that his work is so patchy and derivative: I felt like I'd wasted hours of my life with the first 10 or so of his quartets,


Now I got confirmation that somebody else also felt the same 
Your 'theory' about French composer didn't appeal much in SQ still a bit puzzling. debussy and ravel are still the one who create a SQ which highly influence me to love this form.


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## Taneyev

Have a string quartet and a string quintet by Theodore Gouvy, 2 splendid works almost unknown. But IMHO,
besides D.and R., the best french-belgiam quartets of the 19th.century are Franck's, Chausson's and Magnard's.
In particular, to me Franck quartet is his best chamber work.


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## joen_cph

Magnard - a figure of the old school, literally defending his 
own mansion to his death against invading soldiers in WW I 
and apparently "resenting the advantages that the wealth 
of his father, publishing director of Le Figaro newspaper 
group, was prepared to provide" for him, cf. Patric Stanford, 
in a review of the symphonies.
"Magnard sent his wife and two daughters to a safe hiding place 
while he stayed behind to guard the estate of Manoir de Fontaines 
at Baron, Oise. When German soldiers trespassed, he fired at them, 
killing one of them, and they fired back and set the house on fire. 
It is believed that Magnard died in the fire, but his body could not 
be identified in the remains. The fire destroyed Magnard's unpublished 
scores, such as the orchestral score of his early opera Yolande, the 
orchestral score of Guercoeur ... and a more recent song cycle", 
cf. Wikipedia.
Not any exaggerated pragmatism there, for sure ...

There´s a photo of the manor on Magnard´s facebook site:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1498571&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=61042692590&id=632117437


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## Guest

Here are some French pieces for string quartet that I have (other than the ones already mentioned):

Georges Aperghis-_Triangle Carré_
André Boucourechliev-_String quartet nr. 3, Miroir 2, Archipel II_ 
Pascal Dusapin-_Time Zones, string quartet nr. 3_
Henri Dutilleux-_Ainsi la nuit_
Allain Gaussin-_Chakra_
François-Bernard Mâche-_Eidan_ 
Gérard Pape-_Le Fleuve du Désir _

I could easily have many more. I don't listen to music by country,* and I've not gotten very far in cataloguing my collection, so this is just the result of a quick scan of the shelves.

That same scan revealed that the string quartets I have are for the most part from Italy, Mexico, Germany, and the U.S.

*though I do know that most of the French music I have is electroacoustic, live electronics, and turntable.


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## starry

some guy said:


> I don't listen to music by country


Me neither, I prefer to do categorize music chronologically.


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## Head_case

> I could easily have many more. I don't listen to music by country,* and I've not gotten very far in cataloguing my collection, so this is just the result of a quick scan of the shelves.


Yes....I can see then how the original thread topic can seem somewhat superfluous then.

It's a shame for most of us, except perhaps, musical ethnologists, that the modern situation, is that we no longer know where we come from; nor where our music comes from ~ as if in some globalising and totalising worldview, it doesn't at all matter.

It matters a lot to me. For instance; Bartok's Hungarian folk inflected masterful string quartet cycle; the two Szymanowski folk-influenced quartets derived from the Tatras Mountains in Poland; the whole of the phenomenal Shostakovich USSR string cycle; that of his folk-grounded predecessor, Myaskovsky's complete 13 string cycles; even minor string quartets, such as the Baltic Ciurlionis; or Peteris Vasks. Yes ~ geography does actually play a part in the consciousness, fathomed or not, of a composer's works.

Perhaps this is not true for the French? Does the folk elements of masterpieces like Mussorgsky's work; or Bartok's; or Tan Dun, really count for nothing?

Well there is a dominance of a philosophical pretension towards 'chronology' as the arbiter and filing system for which every thing is referenced. That is - music can be catalogued or categorised historically, according to chronologys, in referencing itself to time. We study the history of music, rather than the geography of music, according to our 'anti-space' ethos. However this does not mean that a geography of music is irrelevant, in tracing the form of the classical string quartet.


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## Head_case

joen_cph said:


> As regards the Honegger quartets I found the Erato quartet
> on Aura more convincing than Quatuor Ludwig on Timpani.
> However the Timpani multiple cd-set includes, as far as
> I remember, the complete chamber works of Honegger,
> among which there are many small treasures. Also I have
> thousands of recordings & my judgments can be a bit
> superficial; in general, I prefer passionate music-making,
> though, rather than an "objective" rendering of notes.


Many thanks for that. It is a bit of a pain collecting the complete set of work, just for the string quartets. I know that's a terrible reason for not having listened to a string quartet, but alas, it's the case. This is also the problem with the Magnard string quartet which you and Taneyev have recommended; it comes coupled with Fauré string quartet when I last saw it on one CD. I already have 3 versions of the Fauré which I'm really happy with!

Thanks for the recommendations everyone ~ I'll re-try the Chausson and the Franck (although the architectural perfection of his masterpieces leaves me finding it someone impersonal) and the Maynard. The Bouchierchiev (sp.), Gaussin and other quartets will be interesting to discover - these aren't easy to come by in the UK.

It seems a misnomer to me (maybe no one else), that everyone can rattle off so many French orchestral pieces...yet when it comes to the string quartet form, only a handful of string quartets stand out from a nation so endowed with musicality; and of those, no serious string quartet cycles to rival Shostakovich; Myaskovsky; Taneyev; Shebalin; Weinberg from the USSR; Bartok or the Kodaly Quartets from Hungary; Norgard, Nielsen, Langaard from the northern bits of Europe, Villa-Lobos in the Latin Americas or the masses of Teutonic and Viennese string cycles abundant in the radio airwaves....


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## Guest

I was simply stating a fact, and that simply to account for the size of my list of French string quartets. I wasn't trying to criticize the thread or its title!

It is true that the sense of nation is not very old in music, but it is strongest in the time span most classical listeners know best, late 18th to early 20th century. The internationalism many lament is a return, as it were, to the cosmopolitan nature of music-making in the 18th and earlier centuries. (The very idea of "nation" that we have now is not all that old, generally.)

And certainly musical styles have followed chronology more closely than national borders. Music from Mexico in the 17th century sounds more like 17th century German music than 19th century German music does.

None of which is to say that neither geography nor folk elements are *un*important. But "Germany" in the 17th century was hardly the same kind of thing that Germany in the 19th century was.


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## joen_cph

My personal favourite among Magnard´s works is the 4th Symphony;
the Plasson recording is much more melodic as well as dramatic than
the others. I have allmost all of his 22 opuses - also the string quartet 
with the Via Nova Quartet on Erato, but haven´t listened much to
it, my initial feeling was that of a certain dryness. I agree with you
about Franck, prefering the Piano Quintet (Bernathova,Janacek4), 
the Symphony (Paray), and the piano works. As regards the 
Magnard quartet´s qualities, I really can´t say much, preferring some 
of his other works ... But I will give it a chance again right now; 
he certainly was an interesting & fascinating figure.
Nice seing Danish culture & quartets mentioned ...  Both Nørgård and 
Holmboe have openly spoken of a debt to Sibelius, implying a certain 
regional feeling and identity. Generally, regionalism is probably advancing 
now on behalf of nationalism; perhaps it will all become a bit too much - 
if globalization is the final stage, then people´s minds will certainly have 
a lot to deal with - perhaps leading to a counter-reaction of some sort
of "mini-ism" ...


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## starry

The USSR was a rather larger population than France and Vienna was a meeting place for musicians from all over (many Czech composers went there for example). And who's to say whether one nation is 'endowed with musicality' and another one isn't? These things aren't decided by genes or natural circumstances but by factors such as politics and economics. Music has always been open to influence beyond boundaries and that is a really great thing because otherwise it would just become insular and stagnant. Beethoven, Mozart and JS Bach for example have not just been influential in the states they were born in but have been studied and enjoyed all over the world, surely that is a good thing. Whether a composer wishes to include some local element (such as folk) within their music is their own individual stylistic choice. Sometimes in a particular period and place a style may develop but that is often because of the leading of a particularly talented composer or stylistic school and his/their influence rather than because it is a natural 'national' style.


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## Head_case

joen_cph said:


> ....also the string quartet
> with the Via Nova Quartet on Erato, but haven´t listened much to
> it, my initial feeling was that of a certain dryness. I agree with you
> about Franck, prefering the Piano Quintet (Bernathova,Janacek4),
> the Symphony (Paray), and the piano works. As regards the
> Magnard quartet´s qualities, I really can´t say much, preferring some
> of his other works ... But I will give it a chance again right now;
> he certainly was an interesting & fascinating figure.


Lol ~ you seem to have a similar affinity for the string quartet form as me. I am more of a listener though. My string playing really sux you would not believe how bad. My greatest act of generosity to the world of music is by having stopped playing, to spare the world the torture of hearing me 

Magnard's Quartet doesn't come up on Spotify. It does come in a version with the Ysaye Quartet (coupled with the Fauré Quartet). I suppose another version of the Fauré Quartet can't do any harm.....



> Nice seing Danish culture & quartets mentioned ...  Both Nørgård and
> Holmboe have openly spoken of a debt to Sibelius, implying a certain
> regional feeling and identity. Generally, regionalism is probably advancing
> now on behalf of nationalism; perhaps it will all become a bit too much -
> if globalization is the final stage, then people´s minds will certainly have
> a lot to deal with - perhaps leading to a counter-reaction of some sort
> of "mini-ism" ...


Lol, you wouldn't happened to be Danish, wot with all of those ø and å's. Besides, Danish culture has always been in the forefront of my development. I played with Lego for longer than most children 

Søren Kierkegaard is also one of the most interesting writers I read at university. His work kind of left me curious about Danish culture, particularly Danemark's peculiar position, as the smaller neighbour to the great big imperial neighbour next door, before the 20th century......

Music and Identity are important; for me, this is how 'memory' is constructed. But that's another thread....


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## joen_cph

*SOME GUY, *Interesting how you have a fine French Contemporary/post 1945- 
collection, of works often rarely available. I own a reasonbaly 
complete Honegger-, Dutilleux-, Messiaen-, and Boulez-collection, 
some Jolivet, Nigg and Murail, and a little Hersant, Fumet, Casterede, 
Boucourechliev, Grisey and Jolas - of the last 6 I think that only Jolas 
has anything of some interest; Boulez demands more than I can usually 
deal with. Any other French composers you have found particularly good, 
or does this cover the best of them in your opinion ?


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## Head_case

starry said:


> And who's to say whether one nation is 'endowed with musicality' and another one isn't?


Errr....how many string quartets from Antartica do you know of? 

The string quartet originates from Europe; it is a peculiarly, European form of music which has spread further from its base. In that respect, its lineage, can be traced geographically, just as it can be traced 'chronologically'. Is this such a hard premise to consider?



> These things aren't decided by genes or natural circumstances but by factors such as politics and economics.


Certainly genes aren't considered important in the cultural evolution of a musical form, unless having a 6th finger is truly advantageous for pizzicati or an extra octave's reach for pianists. However you're deeply mistaken if you consider that natural circumstances do not contribute to the musical form of the quartet. Szymanowski's own biographer, writes of how the Tatras mountains and the Polish landscape inspired him in one hand; the middle-east and the mysticism of the Sufi mystics in the Middle East, as an other. Similarly, location in the heart of Catholic Poland, constitutes a geographico-cultural identity, which ground the majority of the Vintage 33 Polish composers. Alienation and geographical isolation to eastern Siberia as a consequence of political factors, indeed shapes the consciousness of the composers who collected folk-songs and drew their inspiration from the geography of the mountains, as well as the fauna of the landscape (i.e. Myaskovsky). The same is also found in the works of Moeran's string quartets, or Bedrich Smetana's 'Ma Vlast' (My Homeland).

Maybe it seems ncredulous that there is any dispute at all, that natural circumstances do not shape the musical consciousness of a composer, however we are all entitled to take up a position akin to dialectical materialism (or Marxism) and state that 'space is capitalist!' and that 'space' should be abandoned as an explanatory power.

PS - There is a distinction between 'folk-nationalism' and the political-nationalism' found in certain breeds of propaganda pieces. For example - the nationalism of the Stalinist era, bears nothing in relation to the folk-nationalism of Glazunov's Quartets II-V; similarly, the globalisation of Glazunov's later 'international' Quartets VI-VII bear little of interest to the modern listener, such that no one bothers to play or record these much.


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## Guest

joen_cph said:


> Any other French composers you have found particularly good,
> or does this cover the best of them in your opinion ?


My little list was only the string quartet music I found after a quick scan of the shelves!

The French composers I have found particularly good is another matter! (Though there's certainly nothing wrong with any of those guys I already mentioned.)

I do find some composers particularly good, though.

Luc Ferrari
Michèle Bokanowski
Christine Groult
Beatriz Ferreyra
eRikm
Lionel Marchetti
Jérôme Noetinger
Francis Dhomont
Bérangère Maximin

All but one of these people are alive, too, so you can hang out with them, drink some café or vin. (This list is just off the top of my head, too. I'm probably forgetting some really delightful people.)


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## joen_cph

Thanks. Forgot a few other composers myself - Ballif, Bancquart, 
Barraque, Chaynes, at least. But didn´t know anything about those 
you mention, except from Ferrari, who seems to be a bit on the 
persistent wing of non-music perhaps. Impressive library of yours.


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## Head_case

Well thanks guys 

I've just got home and spun on Honegger's Quartet No. I by the Geneva Quartet. 

What a satisfying and lush experience! I wouldn't have dared to spend full price on an unknown vinyl LP like this but it seems so so satisfying and I've only heard it twice so far. 

Slowly working through getting a hold on some of the other more risqué recommendations


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Florent Schmitt wrote a large string quartet in g#-minor which apparently has never been recorded for CD.
(Schmitt's great piano quintet is incredible!)

Jacques Ibert wrote a nice string quartet (probably OOP by now).

I especially admire the string quartets of Fauré, Magnard, and Chausson; of course those by Franck, Debussy, and Ravel.
Lekeu wrote two large movements for string quarte, n'est pas?


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## Taneyev

Yes, but Lekeu had a full quartet in G major, a "meditation pour quatuor d'instruments à cordes", and one "molto adagio sempre cantante e doloroso" for string quartet.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Right!
And Taneyev wrote some very fine quartets, as did Glazunov, Glier, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, and Arensky--(unfortunately, Rimsky-Korsakov's little Quartet is nothing to write home about, but his String Sextet and Piano-Wind Quintet are superb!)

So much for the Russo-French Alliance...


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## Taneyev

Nobody remember today the 6 SQ of Joseph Guy Ropartz.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

C'est ça! Ropartz. I actually have the recordings on French Timapni label: very good.

Tournemire wrote a large single movement Quartet, la Musique Orante.

http://www.amazon.com/Ernest-Chauss...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1271776899&sr=1-1

Caplet wrote an exquisite piece for quartet and harp of Poe's 'Masque of the Red Death' entitled Conte Fantastique.

http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Strin...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1271776956&sr=1-1


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## joen_cph

Interesting about the Schmitt and Tournemire works mentioned ... Incredible that these composers are so under-represented when we have dozens of recordings of more familiar ones. As far as I remember,
the elderly Schmitt had som extreme right-wing political sympathies, though. A website mentions a rare - and expensive - recording of the Schmitt work by the Champeil Quartet from 1956, probably in mono. The Tournemire "Orante" is available at least from emusic now, I´ll download it immediately.
Another chamber rarity there is a coupling of the Rhene-Baton and Ropartz Piano Trios and one with piano works by Samazeuilh. Haven´t got the last-one mentioned or Ropartz quartets yet, but I´ll take them as later ... A recording of Samazeuilh´s Quartet coupled with Francks was issued by Calliope a few years ago. Haven´t heard anything by this compsoer, but the name in itself is somewhat intriguing ... Apparently he was a personal friend of Ravel and influenced by him and Debussy.

By Lekeu there is 
- “Menuet” f.String Quartet (1887) 
- ”String Quartet” i 6 movements (1887) (36min) 
- ”Molto Adagio: Sempre cantante doloroso" (1887) 
- “Meditation: Adagio molto Religioso, cantante tranquillo” (1887) 
- “Tema con Variazioni" (1888),
all have been recorded. Had Lekeu lived for a couple of decades more, he would probably 
have been much more recognized and entered the "Top 30" of well-known classical composers ...


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## Head_case

Sebastien Melmoth said:


> Right!
> And Taneyev wrote some very fine quartets, as did Glazunov, Glier, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, and Arensky--(unfortunately, Rimsky-Korsakov's little Quartet is nothing to write home about, but his String Sextet and Piano-Wind Quintet are superb!)
> 
> So much for the Russo-French Alliance...


I'm still trying to 'dig' Taneyev since his string quartet cycle came out. At times I wish he was more violent; agitated or emotional, rather than technical, precise and measured. Still, it's an indispensible cycle.

What do you know of the Glier quartets? I've only heard snippets of these, however they were very attractive (in the Russian romantic tradition). I am a little wary of any recommendations including Tchaikovsky or Arensky - somehow they seem to have attached themselves to the string quartet repertoire, despite being rather unremarkable for their contributions in the field. I'm sure their strengths lie elsewhere. As far as Arensky is concerned, I tried listening to his piano trio by the Beaux Arts Trio. At the end of it, I was still wondering what it was all about. This is very different to the few minutes of Glier which I heard - very beautiful and gentle music.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Big *Taneyev* fan. He wrote some String Quintets as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Sergey-Taneye...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272465539&sr=1-2

Check *Glier*'s SQs & First Symphony:

http://www.amazon.com/Reinhold-Glie...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272465592&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Glière-Sympho...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272465623&sr=1-5

And *Arensky*'s SQs & First Symphony:

http://www.amazon.com/ARENSKY-Strin...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272465743&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Arensky-Symph...r_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1272465897&sr=1-13

As for *Schmitt*'s g#-minor Quartet, I recently emailed the members of the Leipzig Quartet with suggestions for obscure and esoteric French Quartets which includes of course that of *Florent Schmitt*.
(BTW, if you can find a copy of *Schmitt*'s Piano Quintet by all means catch it! There may be a new issue by Naxos available for iPod-mp3 which will be issued on CD...)


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## Head_case

Yes - I see Florent Schmitt's work is making a slow comeback after years of only have a memento chamber piece tacked on to the back of a Naxos disc by the Kodaly Quartet. 

the Taneyev work is very grand and architecturally balanced; very impressive, although maybe not as personal as some of his more intense interior works for string quartet. He's not French btw 

Thanks for the links too - always interesting discovering more French chamber music. My collection of French chamber music must've doubled since. 

Ropartz's string quartet cycle is gripping me at the moment. After starting this thread, I started digging into the Quatuor Stanislas' work on CD. It's a magnificent set with the kind of French opulence experienced from the Honneger Quartets and the best of the Milhaud Quartets. Music to get excited about once again!


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## Quartetfore

Look for the recordings of String Sextet, and the String Octet by Gliere on the MD&G label. Beautiful music! Best, Quartetfore


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## Quartetfore

Head Case, I plan to download a quartet of Ropartz, I think #3. What are your thoughts? Have you heard his piano trio (1918)? Not a masterwork, but still enjoyable. Best, Quartetfore.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Guillaume* Lekeu* wrote two mammoth String Quartets: the Molto Adagio and the Quatuor (both of 1887).

http://www.amazon.com/String-Quarte...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274366009&sr=1-1


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## Head_case

quartetfore said:


> Head Case, I plan to download a quartet of Ropartz, I think #3. What are your thoughts? Have you heard his piano trio (1918)? Not a masterwork, but still enjoyable.


The more I listen to Ropartz, the more I'm finding I'm impressed at his exceptionally taut construction of the string quartet no.3. He has his own distinctive voice, although not as pointed as the Debussy string quartet nor as blandly sentimental as the callow Ravel, there's something about him which leads me to approximate him as a kind of feisty angsty Fauré and a more melodic Enescu.

If you download the Ropartz from Spotify, the quality is good enough, particularly if you play back through a 24 bit sampling DAC. The Quatuor Stanislas recording is extremely clear; you can hear the vibrato resonance and the plucking pizzicati without any trace of fierceness in the upper registers and in the folk inflected Molto vivace movement, the lyricism is as beautiful as the Myaskovskian trait - the flutter of the first and second violins chasing one another's tail like songbirds in a pastoral spring dance. All of his quartets are exceptionally well woven. It's hard to think the Quatuor Stanislas reading could be improved dramatically within the next decade so the 3CD set is worthwhile.

I'm not into trios much. Even the Ravel/Debussy/Fauré Trios (must have about 6 different versions of it) on the shelf haven't had much airplay in the past 10 years. Something about the string quartet form; the rich inner dialogue of the 4 strings which reveal unceasing insights the more they are listened to and leaves a unquenching thirst for more.



> Look for the recordings of String Sextet, and the String Octet by Gliere on the MD&G label. Beautiful music! Best,


Yes - I see it's come back into print now!


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## Quartetfore

Head Case, Thanks for thoughts, the 3rd it will be. I agree with your feeling about the string quartet, but I do enjoy the piano trio. I am reminded of a comment I once read on the old BBC Magazine web site. The reviewer of I think a Schubert Trio said that the piano trio was "the pop music of the 19th century". Thats going a bit to far, but there is different feeling to the piano trio as compared to the string quartet. In any case, I think that there is room for both. Best, Quartetfore.


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## Head_case

yes....I think it's just me (who doesn't like piano-anything music. It's such a truly wretched plink plonk instrument capable of terrific somnolence and none of the textures and tonal differentiations found in the string quartet instruments. 

But you're right - there is room for both. Shostakovich's piano trio and the standard French ones are the ones which I've kept throughout the years, although I don't listen to them much. In contrast, the overly romantic trios, like the works by Arensky and Borodin (unfinished?) are marked by the piano holding the strings back and slowing the pace down to a plink plonk. 

Lol - I really have nothing nice to say about the piano do I?


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## jurianbai

when I heard d'Indy quartet no.1 there is a folk melody applied. In British Isle there is a Celtic tune, Eastern Europe got the Hun, Slav or Gypsy tune, but what kind of folk music exist in French?


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## Head_case

Lol. My knowledge of French folk music is as poor as my knowledge of French string quartet music. 

'Frere Jacques'; 'Alouette'; 'Sur le pont d'Avignon', 'La Marseillais', are probably the only French folk tunes I know. Oops. Correction - nursery rhymes


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## Quartetfore

Darius Milhaud was influenced by the Folk Music of his native Provence, you can here that in his early quartets.


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## violadamore2

How about the Chausson "Concert" for stg quartet, piano, and solo violin.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

the Chausson "Concert"?

Exquisite! There's also a version of Chausson's Poéme for string quartet and solo violin.


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## Head_case

It might be ... but it's still not a proper string quartet!

Does Ducasse and Goue's work count as French string quartets? I've not seen the mentioned frequently but bought their discs out of curiosity. Still to listen to them.


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## elgar's ghost

I like Ibert's quartet very much. He wrote quite a few chamber works for various combinations and solo instruments but rarely used the same combination or solo instrument more than once.


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## toucan

Gabriel Fauré!
Duh!!!


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## jurianbai

Taneyev said:


> Nobody remember today the 6 SQ of Joseph Guy Ropartz.


LOL, at least the guy has one additional listener, me. Just downloaded the first volume of Slanislas recording (I begin to take it serious when some of folks here mentioned 'obscured' string quartet composer...). The works is great and I agree with other member praising of the material, the Vol.1 contains no.1 in G and no.2 in Dm, like it when the SQ still got their "key" on modern era.


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## Quartetfore

I like to plan my listening, so for the next few weeks I am looking at French Quartets. On the list are works by Lalo (played it yesterday), Chausson, St. Saens, Jongen, Milhaud, Ropartz, Register, Bonnal(new download) and Faure. What strikes me is the break in style pre Debussy/Ravel and post Debussy/Ravel. It seems to me that Ravel had the greatest influence on French composers after his death.


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## jurianbai

I am now have all three volume of Ropartz. I like the no.4 in F the best. Somehow Ropartz sounds like the Russian, melodious driven piece.

I rarely and even forget Lalo composed a string quartet. Btw, I looking for a french CD combo of Franck + Lalo disc + ... anything else (I already got Faure, Debussy, Ravel).


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## Quartetfore

I have the recording of the 3rd which I like very much, and plan to download at least one more next year. His Piano Trio is thought to be his best Chamber work, but it was a work that I did not like at all. I just sold it on Amazon this week. As far as I know, there is no CD that has that combination that you are looking for.


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## Head_case

Cool to see Ropartz gain a steady foot of lovers here! 

Yes - I don't think I've heard the Lalo string quartet. I had his Cello Concerto and it numbed me to tears, so I kind of go la-la-la-la at the thought of having to hear anything else by Lalo. 

I'm not a fan of the Ropartz Piano trio, but then, I'm not a fan of most piano trios lol. It's got two missing string instruments which have mutated into a plink! plonk! piano!


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Head_case said:


> _Cool to see Ropartz gain a steady foot of lovers here! I'm not a fan of the Ropartz Piano trio, but then, I'm not a fan of most piano trios lol._


Yeah!--Ropartz rules!

I, too, am not a great fan of the piano trio genre: there is an inherent disparity of voicing.

Much prefer the piano quintet.


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## Quartetfore

Sorry boys, but I do like the Piano Trio genre. While the Piano Quintet is my least favorite I like the Piano Quartet very much. I find that the Piano Quintet to often sounds like a mini Piano Concerto. One thing that I`ve noticed in the works that I have playing is that while the sound of the works are post Ravel, the ghost of Franck seems to be hovering in the back round. Its taken me quite a number of plays to "get" the Lalo Quartet, but I now enjoy most of it


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## Head_case

I recently took to playing a grand piano that happened to be unoccupied (lol). It ... was .... shockingly nice to play! I was only doing scales (right hand) and chords on the left, but it sounded very nice!

Maybe pianos aren't all bad - but that's not to say you all have permission to go overboard and go out and listen to piano trios; quartets and quintets 

Talking of the French - does anyone like Pascal Dusapin?


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## jurianbai

Ropartz string quartet on youtube:





Alberic Magnard's only string quartet, I heard this only via youtube.


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## Taneyev

IMO, Magnard's SQ is just extraordinary. Have it by the Via Nova quartet on Erato. Huge work (44' my recording)
About poor Lalo,except his overrecorded SE and cello concerto, few know his 2 lovely violin concerti, his piano trios, the violin sonata, or the (to me) one of the best French ballets (Namouna).


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## jurianbai

you are right about Lalo. I like his "other" violin concertos. His three piano trios (by trio parnassus) is regular folder in my sony walkman for a long time. 

His discovery is just like Saint Saens, who happen I found beside his violin concerto (and Havanaise) also got very nice chamber's, Saint Saens' string quartets, basson+piano sonata Op168, two piano quartets and violin sonatas.


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## Quartetfore

Try his piano trios, they are very enjoyable works,


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## Taneyev

Have a S.S. trio by Gilels-Kogan-Rostropovich. Incredible version !


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## Head_case

Odnoposoff said:


> IMO, Magnard's SQ is just extraordinary. Have it by the Via Nova quartet on Erato. Huge work (44' my recording)


It's taken me some time to enjoy. I like it on a par with the Jean Cras string quartet (Pour ma Bretagne) and the brusque style. Not as dark Ravelian as the Ropartz, or as Debussian as the Bonnal.

I'm not even sure which version I have ... but it is very well played. Out of the Ysaye, the Via Nova (probably the best coupling now), my version is out of print. Got to find it to work out who it is, but I don't have any other music from this quartet.


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