# Music and the visual arts (read before commenting!).



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I said 'read before commenting!', , because I'm not interested in a general discussion about this broad topic. I was reading in the news that they have found a new painting by Picasso in a basement (!). I was very surprised to read, in the comments below the article, very negative comments towards Picasso and modern visual arts in general. They said that, instead, they liked Velázquez, Miguel Angel, Rafael, etc. That was 'true' art according to them. Modern visual arts are 'ugly', 'abstract', 'devoid of technique', etc, according to them. All of this is very similar to the criticism that modern music often receives. So, it seems that there's a general consensus that modern art, in general, is of a very particular nature, in one hand, and, on the other hand, classical art represents objective beauty. Of course this have been said dozens of times in all epochs. But, at least for the general public, there's a very, very sharp and clear cut between art before the XXth century and art of the XXth century (and XXI). Generally, art of the XXth century is not appreciated in this 'dichotomy' (which I don't think it's false, in the sense that I truly think that the art of the XXth century has brought _concepts_ never seen before). Now, my question is, do you find connections between the concepts of modern visual arts and the concepts of modern music?, I mean, intuitive connections. For example; I love modern visual arts and modern music and sometimes, when I listen to modern music, I see visual images in my head that _only_ resemble images of modern visual arts. When I listen to some pieces by Boulez (like 'Rituel') or Ligeti (like the Piano Concerto), I see surreal images of something primitive in the middle of a modern city, with glass buildings and angular details, but always in a dream like context, where you see nonsensical images but you, in the dream, don't perceive that they are nonsensical. The paintings of Picasso reflect perfectly my mental images in these examples. In this section of Ligeti's 'Hamburg Concerto' (



, at 7:22), the timpani and the melody is the 'primitive', 'tribal', 'savage' part (maybe Ligeti was thinking in his tragic past, he has been in a concentration camp, and his brother and father were murdered by the nazis), while the 'dissonances' in the harmony are the 'angular details' and 'glass buildings' of my mental image. My mental image in this case is very similar to this cubist painting by Picasso (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...,_1911-12,_La_Femme_au_Cheval_-_The_Rider.jpg).
Of course all of this is very subjective, but I find that these very complex connections made by my subjectivity are very interesting, they reveal the deep, and complex, impact that _modern_ art can have in a person (in this case, me).

(when I say 'images', it doesn't mean necessarily the explicit 'visual image', it's more the sensation associated with it; in the example I mentioned, a more precise way would have been to say that I feel similar sensations when I hear those pieces and when I see cubist paintings)


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Picasso is a great artist. Personally, my pick for the greatest artist is Goya though. The problem with Picasso is the same problem with Stravinsky. They both showed great promise, but it didn't keep developing the way it did at the beginning. Nothing wrong with that. They both did great things.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have long wondered why I struggle with so much modern music when I love much modern art. My enjoyment of modern art is more intellectual than my enjoyment of earlier art. I'm fascinated with many modern works while I mostly just love the sensual aesthetic of impressionism for example. I analyze the works differently. I think it's much easier to analyze art than music, and perhaps that's one reason I have yet to become enamored with much modern music. 

Anyway to your question. I tend not to visualize anything when listening to music - modern or earlier. But I do feel there are significant connections between the concepts. The artists clearly looked at the world in a very new way and tried to show their views through their art. Modern art often seems divorced from reality (i.e. it doesn't depict real "things" on the surface). I actually love that aspect. There is much 20th century literature that I love for similar reasons (Kafka, for example). I have a similar feeling about modern music, but for whatever reason, I haven't found myself drawn to it.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I have long wondered why I struggle with so much modern music when I love much modern art. My enjoyment of modern art is more intellectual than my enjoyment of earlier art. I'm fascinated with many modern works while I mostly just love the sensual aesthetic of impressionism for example. I analyze the works differently. I think it's much easier to analyze art than music, and perhaps that's one reason I have yet to become enamored with much modern music. 

I was interested on this kind of things in the OP, i.e., if people that enjoy modern visual arts also enjoy modern music, so thanks. . My reaction to Picasso and these pieces of music is, in general, visceral, I don't analyze them (in the first reaction or in the first exposure to them).

Anyway to your question. I tend not to visualize anything when listening to music - modern or earlier. But I do feel there are significant connections between the concepts. The artists clearly looked at the world in a very new way and tried to show their views through their art. Modern art often seems divorced from reality (i.e. it doesn't depict real "things" on the surface). I actually love that aspect. There is much 20th century literature that I love for similar reasons (Kafka, for example). I have a similar feeling about modern music, but for whatever reason, I haven't found myself drawn to it.

(see the edit about the explicit 'visual' aspect). Yes, indeed I think that both music and modern visual arts are capable of evoking very particular things, which don't exist in the actual reality (like my 'dream like' thing of modern mixed with primitive). Maybe classical art is capable of this too, but, at least for me, modern art makes this kind of impact in a very effective and direct way.


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