# Most effective programmatic music.



## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

What do you think are is the programmatic music that most successfully represents its intended program? I personally nominate An Alpine Symphony, as well as Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, although many people do not talk about the program of this piece, I find it conveys very well the emotions that Tchaikovsky intended for it to.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

For me, easily Beethoven's Pastoral (the symphony, not the piano sonata). But Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique is right up there.

I'm voting with those who don't think Tchaikovsky's 4th is program music, as the term is normally used.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If I was going to pick a programmatic Tchaikovsky piece then it would be the _Manfred Symphony_ and not any of the numbered symphonies despite the 'program' that Tchaikovsky wrote, but note that the program was only written at the request of his patroness. The two pieces that come to mind as most successfully conveying their program would be Borodin's In the Steppes of Central Asia and Peter Maxwell Davies' _An Orkney Wedding, with Sunrise_.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Sibelius: _Nightride and Sunrise._


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Folkloristic stereotypes aside, orientalist works form another niche - R-Korsakov´s Sheherazade, Nielsen´s Aladdin etc, etc ...

including Respighi´s quite fabulous Belkis Suite 




Countless sea pictures too, such as Mendelssohn´s Fingal´s Cave, Nielsen´s An Imaginary Trip to the Faroe Islands, 



 , etc, etc.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

If you're including descriptive music as well as that with a narrative then Ravel's 'Une barque sur l'ocean' is very effective.

At 1.40 to 2.10 of the following, you may even find yourself getting a little sea-sick!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Becca said:


> If I was going to pick a programmatic Tchaikovsky piece then it would be the _Manfred Symphony_ and not any of the numbered symphonies despite the 'program' that Tchaikovsky wrote, but note that the program was only written at the request of his patroness. The two pieces that come to mind as most successfully conveying their program would be Borodin's In the Steppes of Central Asia and Peter Maxwell Davies' _An Orkney Wedding, with Sunrise_.


A difficult challenge for a conductor. Toscanini did well with it. Wish I heard him do it live.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

For me, New World Symphony fits that well.


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Rimsky-Korsakov Sheherazade, maybe, among many others.


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## R3PL4Y (Jan 21, 2016)

Richard8655 said:


> For me, New World Symphony fits that well.


What is the program to Dvorak 9?


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

R3PL4Y said:


> What is the program to Dvorak 9?


Native American and frontier themes invoking America's beginnings. It has been said that Dvořák was inspired by the American "wide open spaces" such as prairies he may have seen on his trip to Iowa in the summer of 1893.

I don't think program music is restricted to depicting specific events (Alpine Symphony) as also historical experiences, settings, and atmosphere.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Rimsky-Korsakov's _Antar _Symphony is very cohesive in its story telling. RK has always been such a master of fear, which comes through in the 1st and 2nd movements. Also, his way of manipulating thematic material, contrasting luster with jarring dissonance in some parts, produce multiple levels of emotional interpretation. For example, the 3rd movement is a sparkling noble procession, but at moments Antar's theme grates against it to represent his iron-fisted will to rule. The very end of the symphony has appropriate levels of pathos, where you almost sympathize with Antar's death despite his evils, a disappointment at the loss of hope. Thus I consider it a well-rounded piece, and meritorious by this factor.

Richard Strauss in general was excellent at a kind of literal tone poem, where events play out directly one after the other, like a soundtrack. _Till Eulenspiegel_, _Don Quixote_, and _Don Juan_ are just the more well known examples of that like of literal programmaticism.

Zemlinsky's _The Mermaid _I find extremely effective in its depiction of the emotions of the mermaid more than her environment.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me, it's the second movement of Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony. Love the chirping of the various birds!


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Vivaldi's four seasons. I'm never tired of this lovely concertos and different players make sound different birds voices.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Heliogabo said:


> Vivaldi's four seasons. I'm never tired of this lovely concertos and different players make sound different birds voices.


Plus it sounds fine as "old school" or HIP.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Heliogabo said:


> Vivaldi's four seasons. I'm never tired of this lovely concertos and different players make sound different birds voices.


And Vivaldi wrote little notes in the music saying this moment depicts that thing, etc. The beginning of the Winter Concerto depicts walking on crackling frost.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Lots of good suggestions so far, but a really obvious one (for those who have heard it) would be Messiaen's _La Rousserolle Effarvatte_ from Book 4 of _Catalogue d'oiseaux_

This is almost 32 minutes of an incredibly evocative portrayal of a reedbed from before dawn to after dusk played by the solo piano. The atmosphere of the location, the changing light and moods of the landscape, the parade of recognisable birdsongs and the sheer 'punch' of the setting as a whole are wonderful ...... although Mrs H *always* is disbelieving when I say that there *are* people who enjoy what she can only hear to be a jumble of disconnected clangs and bangs on the piano


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I find Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" hard to beat. As well as "Night on Bald Mountain".

Korsacov's "Scheherazade" is another one I rate highly.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Heliogabo said:


> Vivaldi's four seasons. I'm never tired of this lovely concertos and different players make sound different birds voices.


Birds? You and hpowders want birds? Ralph (if his name is supposed to be pronounced Rafe, why don't they spell it Rafe?) Vaughan Williams will give you birds: _The Lark Ascending_. It's a nice bird.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Strange Magic said:


> Birds? You and hpowders want birds? Ralph (if his name is supposed to be pronounced Rafe, why don't they spell it Rafe?) Vaughan Williams will give you birds: _The Lark Ascending_. It's a nice bird.


For the same reason that we pronounce Worcester as Wuster and St. John as Sinjin, i.e. sheer perversity


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## Autocrat (Nov 14, 2014)

Beethoven's third symphony for mine.



(You want birds? Whole flocks of them in Sculthorpe's string quartets).


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet can almost be mapped out 1:1 onto Shakespeare's play.

Prologue - Gang war between Montagues and Capulets - Balcony Scene - Deaths of Mercutio and Tybalt - Love Scene - Deaths of Romeo and Juliet - Prince's oration over the dead.

The music in Francesca da Rimini might be even better, but the story doesn't match up...


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

You want more birds? Respighi--wait for it--_The Birds_, aka _Gli uccelli_. Birds.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Plus it sounds fine as "old school" or HIP.


Totally agreed!


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

The first notes in Rebel's "Les élemens" as pure "chaos" are quite effective as well. And, of course, there are birds too.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

KenOC said:


> For me, easily Beethoven's Pastoral (the symphony, not the piano sonata). But Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique is right up there.


Good choices and I would add Berlioz's Roméo et Juliette 'Symphonie Dramatique' which has some of the most beautiful melodies ever written (and is very descriptive of the well-known storyline). It took several years for RCA to release a CD (remastered) of my favorite Charles Munch LP version.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

I'd like to nominate the Rome trilogy of symphonic poems by Respighi - the 'Pines of Rome' even has a really good bird in the form of a recording of a singing nightingale in the 3rd section.
I'd also second earlier suggestions of Strauss' Alpine Symphony and Rimsky-Korsakovs' Scheherazade.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Birds? You want birds? Then _Catalogue d'oiseaux_ by Olivier Messiaen is *the* place to go to.

or you could try Einojuhani Rautavaara: Concerto for Birds and Orchestra "Cantus Arcticus", Op. 61 (although I'm not that keen on it, personally)


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Programmatic music?


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't know if it qualifies as programmatic music, but Debussy's La Mer is incredibly effective to me.

I think that also Grieg's "Morning Mood" deserves a mention.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

Others to consider:

Gliere - Symphony #3 "Ilya Muromets" 
Debussy - "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun"
Beethoven - "Wellington's Victory" 
Ravel - "Daphnis and Chloe" 
Tchaikovsky - "Romeo and Juliet"
St. Saens - "Carnival of the Animals" (with poetry by Ogden Nash)


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Becca said:


> For the same reason that we pronounce Worcester as Wuster and St. John as Sinjin, i.e. sheer perversity


Where I live, Worcester is pronounced "Wustah". Keeping the New England theme, Ives "Three Places in New England" is my vote for most effective program music.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> The beginning of the Winter Concerto depicts walking on crackling frost.


I had no idea of that. I have always thought the winter concerto depicted rainy and frost free Italian winter. More like we that are used to more cold weather call autumn.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Stavrogin said:


> I don't know if it qualifies as programmatic music, but Debussy's La Mer is incredibly effective to me.
> .


There is also La Mer by Paul Gilson that is somewhat similar to Debussy's La Mer.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

OP: Taking the thread title literally so far as US Public Classical Radio is concerned, every 10-15 minute piece by Vivaldi.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

I'll go with *Gliere's* "Ilya Muromets" (Symphony no. III)
*Sibelius'* "Kullervo"
*Rimsky-Korsakov's* "Antar" (Symphony no. II)
*Balakirev's* "Tamara" (Symphonic poem)
*Glazunov's* "Stenka Razin" (Symphonic poem)
*Liszt's* Dante and Faust Symphonies.


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## znapschatz (Feb 28, 2016)

a few more:

Shostakovich: “The Execution of Stepan Razin” w/poetry by Yevtushenko

Dukas: “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice” (yeah, Mickey Mouse, but it’s still good fun)

Respighi: “The Fountains of Rome/Pines of Rome/Festa Romana” 

There are numerous pieces that fit perfectly as background music for episodes in my life. That is, when I hear them, they bring me back, or when I reminisce, it's with that music as accompaniment to the memories.. One of my programatic tunes is Sibelius’ Symphony #2, last movement, but I don’t think it would resonate in that way for anyone else (can this be the subject for another thread?  )


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

I thoroughly recommend to everyone GLIERE SYMPHONY 3 Ilya Moroments. (1911)

This epic piece contains four movements which tell the story of an old Russian hero who is healed by pilgrims from being crippled and sets of to adventure. It uses old melody's from gregorian chant. It's very Wagnerian and the orchestration is phenomenal. The finale contains the biggest climax I have ever heard when Ilya gets turned to stone (spoiler alert). The story is very easy to follow and it's just a very underrated piece.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

BenG said:


> I thoroughly recommend to everyone GLIERE SYMPHONY 3 Ilya Moroments. (1911)
> 
> This epic piece contains four movements which tell the story of an old Russian hero who is healed by pilgrims from being crippled and sets of to adventure. It uses old melody's from gregorian chant. It's very Wagnerian and the orchestration is phenomenal. The finale contains the biggest climax I have ever heard when Ilya gets turned to stone (spoiler alert). The story is very easy to follow and it's just a very underrated piece.


Thanks for the advice.
Just a minor note: it is better to write "spoiler alert" before the spoiler itsef, not after the spoiler


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Liszt *Hunnerschlacht*

Ibert *Escales*, *Suite Symphonique Paris*

Delius *Florida Suite*

Debussy *La Mer* (I assume there is some reason this hasn't been mentioned?)

Smetana *Ma Vlast* especially Tabor and Blanik

Vivaldi "*La Caccia*", *"La Tempest di Mare", *"*Alla Rustica"* and *"Il Gardellino" *concertos


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