# Composer's ultimate masterpiece.



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Name one composer and some piece by him, that you think is the composer's ultimate masterpiece.

Maurice Ravel: L'enfant et les sortileges.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

*Mahler*: Symphony 3.

View attachment 7664


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

*Mozart:* Don Giovanni


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Ludwig Van Beethoven - 9th symphony

Beethovens top 3 ( at the moment IMO)
- 9th symphony
- Missa solemis
- Appasionata piano sonata


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Chopin - Ballade No. 1 & no. 4


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Wagner -Parsifal


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Schumann - Fantasie in C, Second Symphony, Carnaval, or Kreisleriana


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## SottoVoce (Jul 29, 2011)

Brahms - Clarinet Quintet or Piano Quintet in F Minor
Schoenberg - Suite op. 25, Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte, 1st Piano Piece of op. 11


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

Beethoven symphony 9.

He wrote several masterpieces, though few because he spent so much time on them. Even so, in the ninth he outdoes himself IMO.

Mahler symphony 9 also is exceptional, and well into my favourites.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Schubert- _Winterreise_


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Joseph Haydn- _Die Schöpfung_


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

aleazk said:


> Name one composer and some piece by him, that you think is the composer's ultimate masterpiece.
> 
> Maurice Ravel: L'enfant et les sortileges.


Good choice! But I'd like to nominate _Daphnis et Chloé _as Ravel's masterpiece, on the grounds that, structurally, it is a more convincing ballet than_ L'enfant_ is as an opera. That's only an opinion, by the way!


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Ravel - Scheherazade
Mahler - Das Lied von der Erde
Mozart - Clarinet concerto
Beethoven - Symphony 6
Chopin - Nocturnes
Wagner - Der Ring
Schumann - Rhenish symphony
Brahms - Ein Deutsches Requiem
Schubert - String quintet
Haydn - Emperor string quartet

My choices for the composers mentioned so far. I will add:

Barber - Knoxville summer of 1915


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## Renaissance (Jul 10, 2012)

Bach - Art of Fugue/Harpsichord Concertos/ Mass in B minor/Trio Sonatas.
Mozart - Requiem
Beethoven - Symphony No.3/Missa Solemnis/Violin Concerto. (so many, but I am trying to limit myself to few)
Brahms - Piano Concerto No.2 /Clarinet Trio Op.114/ Piano Quintet No.1
Schubert - "Rosamunde" String Quartet/"Death and the Maiden" String Quartet./ Piano Quintet "Trout"
Dvorak - Symphony No.9/Cello Concerto/ Stabat Mater.
Liszt - Transcendental Etudes/ Faust Symphony/ Piano Concerto No.2.
Ravel - Bolero/String Quartet/Piano Concerto.
Saint Saens - Organ Symphony 
Prokofiev - Violin Concerto No.2/Symphony No.6/ Dance of Knights 
Stravinsky - Symphony of Psalms/ Firebird
Berg - Violin Concerto
Bartok - String Quartets (all)/ Piano Quintet (I really enjoy it, though it is quite obscure)
Langgaard - Symphony No.1/ Music Of Spheres/Rose Garden Songs
Arvo Part - Da Pacem Domine/ Missa Berliner/ Missa Syllabica


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Mahler - _Das Lied von der Erde_

Brahms - _Ein Deutsches Requiem_

I agree with both of these.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Stravinsky...? It's got to be _The Rite of Spring_


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## Carpenoctem (May 15, 2012)

Elgar - Cello Concerto


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Stravinsky...? It's got to be _The Rite of Spring_


It's certainly his most famous. I would rank The Soldier's Tale, Petrushka and The Firebird ahead of it, personally.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Jacob Obrecht, Missa Maria Zart. If we're talking ultimate, this takes the cantus firmus mass to Brucknerian levels.


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Stravinsky...? It's got to be _The Rite of Spring_


_Oedipus Rex_ would be a strong contender. _Les Noces_? _Histoire du Soldat_? _Petrushka_? _Symphony of Psalms_? _Requiem Canticles_? _Threni_? Bernstein compares Stravinsky works to Mozart piano concerti - the best one is whichever one you are listening to at the time.


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## ArthurBrain (Aug 19, 2012)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> Stravinsky...? It's got to be _The Rite of Spring_


Absolutely. It didn't achieve fame (or infamy) by accident. Stravinsky wrote many fine works but this bombshell deserves its place as a recognized masterpiece in the 20th century. Sheer brilliance...

Even though it's not my favourite work by Messiaen I pick Quartet For The End of Time. To write such a piece under conditions that must have been horrendous it's a hallmark of the man to come up with such inspiration.


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## ArthurBrain (Aug 19, 2012)

jalex said:


> _Oedipus Rex_ would be a strong contender. _Les Noces_? _Histoire du Soldat_? _Petrushka_? _Symphony of Psalms_? _Requiem Canticles_? _Threni_? Bernstein compares Stravinsky works to Mozart piano concerti - the best one is whichever one you are listening to at the time.


The Rite Of Spring & The Symphony Of Psalms are about as comparable as a Scotch egg with a lawnmower. Not one of Bernstein's better quotes IMO....


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vivaldi - Four Seasons
Corelli - Concerti Grossi Op. 6
Telemann - Tafelmusik
Tchaikovsky - The Nutcracker
Schnittke - Concerto Grosso #1 
Mendelssohn - VIolin Concerto #1


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Beethoven -Eroica Symphony
Debussy - Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune
Stravinsky- The Rite

All quite extraordinary bolts out of the blue.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Ligeti: piano concerto.
Chopin: piano etudes and polonaises (for piano).


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## jalex (Aug 21, 2011)

ArthurBrain said:


> The Rite Of Spring & The Symphony Of Psalms are about as comparable as a Scotch egg with a lawnmower. Not one of Bernstein's better quotes IMO....


I wouldn't blink if someone told me they thought the Psalm Symphony was the greatest piece of music from the whole 20th century. It's certainly one of my favourites.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

ArthurBrain said:


> The Rite Of Spring & The Symphony Of Psalms are about as comparable as a Scotch egg with a lawnmower. Not one of Bernstein's better quotes IMO....


Are you implying that I can't mow my lawn with a scotch egg? I'll show you, buddy boy.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Vivaldi - Four Seasons

The most famous... and its fame is merited... but Vivaldi's "masterpiece"? I think I would go with one of his great choral works. The _Vespri per l'Assunzione di Maria Vergine_ is absolutely stunning... although it is a reconstruction employing elements of various choral works. Perhaps the _Gloria_, the _Magnificat_, the _Dixit Dominus _or the _Nisi Dominus_... or one of the operas. _Juditha Triumphans_, _Orlando Furioso_, or _Ercole sul Termodonte_.

Corelli - Concerti Grossi Op. 6

Absolutely!

Telemann - Tafelmusik

I prefer the Cantatas... although I'm really warming to the violin concertos... especially as performed by Elizabeth Wallfisch.


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## TrazomGangflow (Sep 9, 2011)

Handel - Water Music


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Beethoven: Sym. No. 3, Missa Solemnis, Piano Sonata Op.111, Piano Cto. No. 4, String Quartet Op 127 (E-flat)
Schubert: String Quintet, Piano Sonata D960, Die Wintereisse
Mozart: Clarinet Cto. , Jupiter Symphony, Figaro, Don G., Mass in c-minor
Haydn: The Creation
Brahms: hard to choose
Mussorgsky: Boris G.
Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde
Schumann: Rhenish Symphony
Janacek: Mass, Makropoulos
Debussy: Peleas et Melisande, Quartet
Bartok: Quartets (any), Miraculous Mandarin, Bluebeard's Castle
Prokofiev: Piano Cto. No. 2, Romeo and Juliet
Britten: Peter Grimes, Serenade
Tippett: Piano Cto., Midsummer Marriage
Ravel: Pictures at an Exhibition -)), Quartet
Liszt: Sonata
. . .


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Beethoven: Sym. No.3, Piano Cto. No. 3
Schubert: Symphony No.8
Mozart: Symphony No.40, Clarinet Concerto (A Major)
Haydn: hard to choose.
Brahms: hard to choose - Piano Concerto 2, Double Concerto, Symphony 3 & 4 
Mussorgsky: Boris G.
Schumann: Rhenish Symphony, Piano Quintet, Manfred
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
Liszt: Piano Concerto No. 1 In A Major, Mazeppa, Hungarian Rhapsody No.5
Dvorak: hard to choose - Symphony No.1,3,7&9, Cello Concert, Violin Concerto, Piano Trio 3 & 4, String Quintet, String Quartet No.13

I'll complete my list later.


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

jalex said:


> _Oedipus Rex_ would be a strong contender. _Les Noces_? _Histoire du Soldat_? _Petrushka_? _Symphony of Psalms_? _Requiem Canticles_? _Threni_? Bernstein compares Stravinsky works to Mozart piano concerti - the best one is whichever one you are listening to at the time.


I think the same applies to Liszt. The main applicants are probably the Piano Sonata, Harmonies poétiques et religieuses (taken in full, as was intended), Faust Symphony, Missa Solennis or Christus. Others i'd put up there are the Années de pèlerinage, Variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen, the 13th Psalm, and maybe even the Dante Symphony.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Debussy Pelleas et Melisande

Ravel Daphnis et Chloe

Dvorak Cello Concerto


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## Ivanovich (Aug 12, 2012)

Fodor: Piano concerto in D


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

DeepR said:


> Chopin - Ballade No. 1 & no. 4


And his Etudes.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Sibelius: Symphony #7
Bruckner: Symphony #5
Shostakovich: Symphony #10
Mahler: Symphony #7
Schubert: String quintet


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Xaltotun said:


> Sibelius: Symphony #7
> Bruckner: Symphony #5
> Shostakovich: Symphony #10
> Mahler: Symphony #7
> Schubert: String quintet


i have listened lots Sibeliues music but i have only listened to few of his works with a concentrated ear, I think that his Violin concerto is his biggest master piece, i will probably change my opinion in the future many times.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Schubert -

1.* Winterreise *- certainly his greatest contribution to the classical music.

2.* String Quintet in C *- the greatest chamber music ever written.. What could anyone ask for?


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

jani said:


> Ludwig Van Beethoven - 9th symphony
> 
> Beethovens top 3 ( at the moment IMO)
> - 9th symphony
> - Missa solemis


True. But the Missa is divine, is for Heaven. It belongs to God. The 9th is for us down here.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

jani said:


> i have listened lots Sibeliues music but i have only listened to few of his works with a concentrated ear, I think that his Violin concerto is his biggest master piece, i will probably change my opinion in the future many times.


Don't worry, it took me a long time to learn to appreciate Sibelius; now he's one of my favourite composers. I think I've changed my opinion about his greatest masterpiece several times myself as well! But the 7th symphony is in many ways a fitting headstone and a culmination to his oeuvre, and I love the fact that he sort of makes up with Wagner and finally rejoins him again, like he did in the compositions of his youth!


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

I feel obliged to point out that ultimate means final and not best. Don't let that stop you though, carry on!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

CPE Bach - WQ. 183 4 Symphonies
Schubert - Symphony 9


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Mendelssohn - "Scotch" Symphony.

There are other pieces of his that could qualify. But, in my opinion this is one of a mere handful of classical music works to which the statement "never a dull moment" applies.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

quack said:


> i feel obliged to point out that ultimate means final and not best. Don't let that stop you though, carry on!


witch!!!! Witch!!!!


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## ArthurBrain (Aug 19, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Are you implying that I can't mow my lawn with a scotch egg? I'll show you, buddy boy.


I'd be more impressed if you could mow your Scotch egg with a lawn.....


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Petwhac said:


> Beethoven -Eroica Symphony
> Debussy - Prelude a l'apres midi d'une faune
> Stravinsky- The Rite
> 
> All quite extraordinary bolts out of the blue.


Out of the blue?


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## ArthurBrain (Aug 19, 2012)

jalex said:


> I wouldn't blink if someone told me they thought the Psalm Symphony was the greatest piece of music from the whole 20th century. It's certainly one of my favourites.


Well, it might have come over as if I was slating other works by Stravinsky in comparison which wouldn't be my intent at all. I like the symphony of psalms myself as it goes and if folk prefer that to 'The Rite' or any other work then fair enough really. I think with certain works there's that element of recognized genius that places certain pieces in the 'ultimate masterpiece' section because they stand out because of it. You can argue that it's all subjective to some degree, and to an extent that's probably true, but then we'd have no 'masterpieces' whatsoever and any composers output would all amount to the same. Some works gain lasting notoriety _because_ of overall impact.


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## kitaro (Mar 6, 2012)

Beethoven: Grosse Fuge
Bach: The Art of Fugue
Mozart: Don Giovanni


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## waldvogel (Jul 10, 2011)

Berlioz: Romeo et Juliette

Faure: Requiem


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## poconoron (Oct 26, 2011)

Mozart - Don Giovanni or Figaro
Beethoven - symphony 7
Bach - Mass in B minor
Schubert - Symphony 9
Dvorak - New World symphony
Brahms - symphony 3


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## Kostka (Jul 17, 2012)

As for Stravinsky, it´s really fairly hard, because there are, in fact, several Stravinskys (as is the case with most good composers who lived long enough). I´ve always liked the Rite, but then, hearing Symphony in three movements or Ebony concerto, both composed after WWII, I found them as high quality as his masterpieces from his thirties. A different case is Bohuslav Martinu, who was growing and evolving all the way through his lifetime and his most profound works belong to 1950s. (Although Julietta from 1938 is one of most beautiful operas ever written!) My favorites of Martinu are Symphony No. 6, Frescoes or Epic of Gilgamesh.
Britten: War Requiem
Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony
Poulenc: Requiem


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

Carl Nielsen--*Symphony No.1. *From its opening notes, this work literally grabbed and compelled me to listen to not only the rest of this symphony, but to the all of Nielsen's Symphonies as well.
Before this--and reading fellow member Vesteralen's encomiums to Nielsen--I had never listened to this composer at all. The First Symphony also motivated me to try and explore other Scandinavian such as Sibelius, Holmboe and Gade. Carl Nielsen has truly become one of my favorite "go to" guys when I need inspiration or just some plain "bucking up". I always feel refreshed and re-motivated after listening to him.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

ArthurBrain said:


> The Rite Of Spring & The Symphony Of Psalms are about as comparable as a Scotch egg with a lawnmower. Not one of Bernstein's better quotes IMO....


I would read Jalex's post again.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Bruckner: 5th symphony
Mendelssohn: 4th Symphony, Violin Concerto
Nielsen: Symphony No.1
Sibelius: Symphony No.5 (atm), Piano Quintet in G Minor
Saint Saens: Symphony No.3, Cello concerto No.1
Glinka: Ruslan and Lyudmila
Tchaikovsky: Symphony No.5, Serenade for Strings in C major
Ippolitov Ivanov: Symphonic Scherzo, Caucasian Sketches No.2
Balakirev: King Lear Overture, Symphony No.2
Glazunov: Yet to be discovered. For now, Symphony No.1&4, Piano Concerto No. 2
Rimsky-Korsakov: Symphony No. 1, Russian Easter Overture for orchestra
Borodin: Prince Igor's Overture, Symphony No.3
Smetana: Ma Vlast
Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No.3&4 and his symphonies

Others should I listen to more.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

samurai said:


> Carl Nielsen--*Symphony No.1. *From its opening notes, this work literally grabbed and compelled me to listen to not only the rest of this symphony, but to the all of Nielsen's Symphonies as well.
> Before this--and reading fellow member Vesteralen's encomiums to Nielsen--I had never listened to this composer at all. The First Symphony also motivated me to try and explore other Scandinavian such as Sibelius, Holmboe and Gade. Carl Nielsen has truly become one of my favorite "go to" guys when I need inspiration or just some plain "bucking up". I always feel refreshed and re-motivated after listening to him.


Hey, nice to know all those recommendations do some good after all. 

I agree - the First Symphony grabs you from the very first note and doesn't let go. So happy you've discovered the Greatest Dane (musically, that is...move over Victor Borge )

By the way, doing a random search on ArchivMusic by label I came across a Nielsen set I never knew existed. It has all the orchestral music, plus some chamber and solo works on 10 discs (recordings from the early 1980s?). It's recommended on the Archiv site. I found a new copy for less than $25. $2.50 a disc? I'll take it.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Scriabin - The Poem of Ecstasy & Prometheus: The Poem of Fire
Both equally great and quite similar in some ways.

I believe I've listened to about 90% of his music. Many of his piano pieces are also little masterpieces, but I can't mention a specific piece or set of pieces that is the 'ultimate' among them. I could just say his Sonatas, Etudes, Preludes...


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

DeepR said:


> Chopin - Ballade No. 1 & no. 4


The ballades are his best work. So much rich melodies and pianistic brilliance. If I could select only one work of Chopin, it would be the 4th ballade. The melodies are gorgeous, the development is very rich. An absolute masterpiece. Chopin writes such virtuoso passages, that they are almost unplayable. The ending is a nightmare to play, but it's the most powerfull conclusion of any of Chopin's works.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

^ You said it.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Schubert: unfinished symphony, especially 1st movement. The famous melody is just out of this world. The orchestration is so effective. The climax is breathtaking. Schubert found a "new sound" for the orchestra. One possible reason it is left unfinished is beacuse the two parts he already had were so puwerfull that he could not find a way, or the time, to proceed.


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## Avengeil (Aug 16, 2011)

Berlioz symphonie fantastique
Sibelius Violin Concerto
Brahms Clarinet Quintet


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I hate to choose but here goes:

Mozart - Magic Flute
Beethoven - Sy 3
Bach - Well temp Clavier books 1/2
Schubert - sy 8


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

stomanek said:


> i hate to choose but here goes:
> 
> Mozart - magic flute
> beethoven - sy 3
> ...


i love queen of the night aria!


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

jani said:


> i love queen of the night aria!


Which one?

I personally like 'O zittre Nicht' the best, there's more depth to that aria and it makes the queen seem more than just a two-dimensional villain.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Beethoven 9th sym
Schubert Piano Sonata no 19 in C minor
Clementi Gradus ad Parnassum
Dussek Piano Sonata in F minor op 77
CPE Bach Symphony no 1 in D major
JS Bach Brandenburg concerto no 3 in G major
Haydn Clock symphony
Mahler 2nd sym
Brahms 1st sym
Chopin 1st piano concerto
Schumann Fantasy in C major
Hummel Piano sonata no 5 in F sharp minor 
Alkan Piano Concerto
Mozart Jupiter
Mendelssohn Violin Concerto
Liszt Piano Sonata


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

trazom said:


> Which one?
> 
> I personally like 'O zittre Nicht' the best, there's more depth to that aria and it makes the queen seem more than just a two-dimensional villain.


There's only one aria that is normally referred to as the Queen of the Night's aria and that is "Die Hoelle Rache".


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

trazom said:


> Which one?
> 
> I personally like 'O zittre Nicht' the best, there's more depth to that aria and it makes the queen seem more than just a two-dimensional villain.


This one


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Bach: The Art of Fugue
Mozart: Requiem Mass
Beethoven: Symphony 9
Wagner: Parsifal

...why am I doing this. we know this.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique / "Les Troyens "

Liszt B Minor Sonata

Stravinsky Rite of Spring

Beethoven "Emperor" Concerto / Ninth Symphony

Nielsen "Inextinguishable" Symphony

Tchaikovsky "Pathetique" Symphony

Brahms Piano Concerto No, 2

R.Strauss Ein Heldenleben / "Rosenkavalier

Donizetti "L'Elisir D'Amore"

Verdi "Falstaff

Mozart "Marriage of Figaro"

Rossini "La Cenerentola"

Chopin Funeral March Sonata

Mahler Das Lied von Der Erde

Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit

Mussorgsky Pictures At An Exhibition. Piano Version.

Schunert Winterreise

Mendelssohn Scotch symphony

Schumann Dichterliebe

Offenbach Tales of Hoffmann

Debussy La Mer

Elgar "Enigma" Variations / "Dream of Gerontius"


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Am i the only person on this forum who thinks that
Tchaikovskys "Pathetique" Symphony ain't his best piece?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

jani said:


> Am i the only person on this forum who thinks that
> Tchaikovskys "Pathetique" Symphony ain't his best piece?


Well, I think it is as you can see.The point behind this thread is for members to present their choices---have you done yours?


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I find the majority of Ravel's works to be ultimate masterpieces, using 'masterpiece' in the modern, common use way (not the way Jeremy Marchant uses the word). Daphnis et Chloe and L'enfant... are incredible works, but I find the majority of his compositions are as good as these, for what he was trying to accomplish with them. I don't think a work necessarily has to be grande, epic or large scale to be a masterpiece.


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## peeyaj (Nov 17, 2010)

Dongiovanni said:


> Schubert: unfinished symphony, especially 1st movement. The famous melody is just out of this world. The orchestration is so effective. The climax is breathtaking. Schubert found a "new sound" for the orchestra. One possible reason it is left unfinished is beacuse the two parts he already had were so puwerfull that he could not find a way, or the time, to proceed.


I agree with your description of the Unfinished. It is one of the earliest Romantic symphonies written and certainly one of the most popular. I love every bits of it, but I have a small slight preference to the Great C Major symphony, which is arguably Schubert's greatest orchestral work.


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## techniquest (Aug 3, 2012)

Here's my take on this question:

Beethoven - Symphony No.9 (because it just has to be)
Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade
Tchaikovsky - Swan Lake (see, not everyone chooses the Pathetique symphony  )
Wagner - The Ring
Ravel - La Valse
Verdi - Requiem
Vaughan Williams - Tallis Fantasia
Elgar - Enigma Variations
Mahler - Symphony No.2
Shostakovich - Symphony No.13
Stravinsky - Rite of Spring (though I want to say 'Firebird')


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## xRIOSxx (Sep 8, 2012)

For me in regards to Mahler, I'd have to say his 6th. But the Mahler symphonies speak on so many different levels it'd be difficult come to a consensus as to which is best.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

jani said:


> Am i the only person on this forum who thinks that
> Tchaikovskys "Pathetique" Symphony ain't his best piece?


I am more partial to his ballets, and Romeo and Juliet :3


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Bach. Mass in B minor. Not only Bach's grand masterpiece, but the grand masterpiece of the ages that has shed light on countless other masterpieces for the next three centuries.


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## BeethoFan (Jun 23, 2010)

Beethoven, Symphony No. 5.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Bach: well tempered clavier
Beethoven: piano concerto 5
Brahms: piano concerto 1
Chopin: fantaisie in F minor
Grieg: piano concerto
Mendelssohn: Scottish symphony
Mozart: piano concerto 20
Schumann: piano concerto


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Good choice! But I'd like to nominate _Daphnis et Chloé _as Ravel's masterpiece, on the grounds that, structurally, it is a more convincing ballet than_ L'enfant_ is as an opera. That's only an opinion, by the way!


Your Teutonic conditioning as to which is the higher value by that criterion, i.e. demonstrable organization by the common practice as idealized about Beethoven, -- is showing just at titch 

L'enfant is perfectly structured, but it is a number opera, perfectly married to the various episodes of the format as set out in Collette's Libretto. One could argue further that in L'enfant, Ravel got maximum effect out of a rarified small pit orchestra, singers and chorus, but 'took' a huge orchestra and full chorus to get Daphnis et Chloe across.

When it comes to Ravel, I have to kind of toss my hands up and say _Four._ -- the two piano concerti, (leaning toward the one in D). Daphnis, and L'enfant.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stravinsky ~ Les Noces / Oedipus Rex / Concerto for two pianos solo / Violin concerto / The Rake's Progress / Threni
Poulenc ~ Aubade / Le Bal Masqué / Dialogues des Carmélites
Ives ~ Symphony No. 4
Berg ~ Violin Concerto / Lulu
Debussy ~ La Mer / Jeux / Etudes / the last three sonatas.

Surely for Beethoven, it should be one of the late quartets vs. any of the symphonies or concerti?


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Mahler - Symphony No. 2
Vaughan Williams - Sea Symphony


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## Picander (May 8, 2013)

Bach: Well Tempered Clavier, book 2
Mozart: Symphony No. 40
Beethoven: String Quartet No. 14
César Franck: Chorale No. 3 in A minor


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

Burroughs said:


> Brahms: piano concerto 1


I'd replace that with the second concerto.

Rachmaninoff: third piano concerto, by big margin. Also second symphony and the brutally neglected first piano sonata.´
Liszt: piano sonata
Chopin: fourth ballade
Shostakovich: first violin concerto


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

*Sibelius:* would have been the 8th symphony, but we'll have to make do with his 7th until he returns from the dead to complete it.


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

*Vivaldi:* The Four Seasons
*Mozart:* Symphony No. 25, Symphony No. 40, "Turkish March"
*Beethoven:* Allegretto from Seventh Symphony, Symphony No. 9, Late String Quartets (they are all evenly good I believe), Piano Sonata #14, Fur Elise, etc (so many...better stop here xD) 
*Dvorak:* Symphony No. 9, Humoresques

I think this ended up more like my favourites. xD


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## Kleinzeit (May 15, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> *Sibelius:* would have been the 8th symphony, but we'll have to make do with his 7th until he returns from the dead to complete it.


The 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 of Sibelius, depending on how much leeway you give to Kullervo and the Lemminkäinen Legends as symphonic statements. And the one in the fireplace which might have been the one that put Sibelius in the position of someone like Barnett Newman painting his first huge monochromes: Is this great art? Is this art at all? Is this even painting? Similarly, Sibelius may have blown his own mind with his musical thinking after Tapiola. And by then he was too pickled to resolve what he might have ten years and a hundred hogsheads before.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I won't pick on anyone in particular, but there are a lot of wrong answers in this thread...


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Liszt: Sonata
Rachmaninoff: Piano Cto. No.3


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

Händel - Giulio Cesare

My work is done here.


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## JohannesBrahms (Apr 22, 2013)

This is all going by strictly piano music. It becomes too difficult to include more than one genre, so:

*Ludwig van Beethoven:* Piano Sonata no. 29 op. 109 "Hammerklavier"

*Johannes Brahms:* Variations on a Theme by Paganini op. 35

*Sergei Rachmaninoff:* Piano Sonata no. 1 op. 28


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## John Browne (May 18, 2013)

Ockeghem: Missa mi mi 
Browne: O maria salvatoris
Tallis: Spem in alium


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

I wish people would stop digging up these old threads,because you may answer them again and give a different answer.
I didn't thank the lord !


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

GiulioCesare said:


> Händel - Giulio Cesare
> 
> My work is done here.


of course _you_'d say that but it's wrong. Clearly: Händel - Alcina


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Brahms - Symphony 4. Of course you can never get everyone to agree on this kind of thing, but that would probably be the most popular candidate for Brahms.


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

deggial said:


> of course _you_'d say that but it's wrong. Clearly: Händel - Alcina


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

Uematsu: One Winged Angel


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

GiulioCesare said:


> https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3809808640/h025B3057/


eh, tried to be funny back, didn't work for whatever silly reason...


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

quack said:


> I feel obliged to point out that ultimate means final and not best. Don't let that stop you though, carry on!


That is just one use of the word


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

Beethoven : Hammerklavier Movement 3 (Piano Sonata 29). A tremendously powerful, emotional and personal sonata for Beethoven, and something every human being should here before they die. Ditto for Symphony 9
Dvorak : Symphony 9
Rachmaninov : Symphonic Dance Cycle


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## chrisco97 (May 22, 2013)

violadude said:


> I won't pick on anyone in particular, but there are a lot of wrong answers in this thread...


I honestly do not see how there could be any _wrong_ answers in this thread, seeing how the original poster asked for what _you_ thought was the composer's ultimate masterpiece...not what _is_. This thread will be full of nothing but opinions, because _most_ of us are going to see their masterpieces as our favourite works by them, even if asked what _is_ their ultimate masterpiece.


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## MJongo (Aug 6, 2011)

Beethoven - Grosse Fuge


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## billeames (Jan 17, 2014)

Bach Mass B Minore
Beethoven Missa Solemnis
Brahms Symphony 1 (a minority view, the 4th is magnificent though, and arguably the best also)
Bruckner Symphony 8 (I want to say no 5 though)
Handel Messiah (sounds trite sorry, I have to agree a part of the trio of best choral works, Beeth Missa, Verdi Requiem, Bach (continued from last line) Mass B Minore
Mahler 9th (I love the 8th though and many others)
Mozart Mass in c Minore (I think its magnificent)
Messiaen Turangalilia (a magnificent work, chosen out of ignorance of his other works possibly)
Nielsen 4th (fascinated by the votes for no 1 in this thread though, listening to it now)
Prokofiev Symphony 5 (I have not heard operas though)
Verdi Don Carlos (tempted to say Requiem)
Wagner Ring as a whole. (Parsifal is magnificent though)


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## billeames (Jan 17, 2014)

I agree with Shost 10th. I also think Bruckner 5 is tops or near it. (8th is more showy though and is great too). Interesting view of Mahler 7 as some reviewers think its not as good as others. Thanks!


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## billeames (Jan 17, 2014)

GGlueck, yes to Missa Solemnis, the ultimate work anywhere anytime of anybody, just my opinion. Yes to Mozart Mass in c minore and Don Giovanni. (Dark but great, forward looking)


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ravel: Concerto for the Left Hand
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2, Piano Concerto #3, Symphony #3 (3-way tie)
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
Debussy: La Mer
Martinu: Symphony #1
Khachaturian: Piano Concerto
De Falla: Nights in the Gardens of Spain
D'Indy: Symphony on a French Mountain Air
Walton: Symphony#1


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

I name only ONE composer of so called Romantic epoch who composed only ultimate masterpieces - and I can't choose which one can be called an ultimate one- his name is Bruckner :lol:

By saying he represents Romantic era of classical music in his music, in his approach to time he is the least romantic of all whom we used to know as Romantic composers, neither belongs he to Classicism, neither his thinking and ideas reflect European ideas and values, he is a composer who went beyond this limitations, I mean limitations of various definitions that usually meant when we name an epoch or a particular style of composition.....well, enough of it. It's not a Bruckner's thread after all  But, please, don't take me too seriously thinking that I claim Bruckner as the only genius among composers. I don't want to play again " you're wrong - I'm right". It's rather humorous reply to a very funny thread.
as someone said here "I wish people would stop digging up old threads". But I ask " why not"? once people thought about this, they created a thread, why not to continue it if someone wants to? and at the same time it's fun to read when some people think " oh, no, your answer is def wrong, this is not a masterpiece, but that one ( of my choice for sure ) is an ultimate masterpiece". Btw some old thread have are at least interesting to read through


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I can only offer such opinions about works I've known and loved for a very long time. For many composers I wouldn't touch this question, since time would very likely make me repudiate my younger self (as I'm happy to do in certain non-musical respects). So:

Purcell: Viol Fantasias; Dido's Lament
Bach: Mass in b-minor; Brandenburg Concertos; WTC; etc. (no fair, I know)
Handel: Messiah
Haydn: The Creation
Beethoven: late quartets, late sonatas, Symphony #9, Archduke Trio
Schubert: String Quintet; Winterreise
Weber: Der Freischutz
Mendelssohn: "Scottish" Symphony
Berlioz: Les Troyens
Bellini: Norma
Liszt: Annees de Pelerinages; Piano Sonata
Wagner: Tristan; Parsifal
Brahms: Symphony #4; Clarinet Quintet; chamber works for piano and strings
Bruckner: Symphonies #8, 9
Verdi: Otello; Falstaff
Puccini: La Fanciulla del West
Mahler: Symphony #10 (adagio only); Das Lied von der Erde
Strauss: Four Last Songs
Schmidt: Symphony #4
Sibelius: Symphonies #4, 5, 7, Tapiola
Tchaikovsky: Sleeping Beauty, Nutcracker
Taneyev: Piano Quintet
Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances, The Bells, Isle of the Dead
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
Chausson: Poeme de l'amour et de la mer
Debussy: Pelleas et Melisande
Busoni: Doktor Faust
Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle
Tubin: Symphony #4
Nielsen: Symphonies #4, 5
Elgar: Symphony #1
Vaughan Williams: Symphonies #3, 5
Holst: Savitri
Britten: Peter Grimes
Martinu: Double Concerto for Strings, Piano and Timpani
Tournemire: L'Orgue mystique
Martin: Mass for double Choir


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## Guest (Oct 14, 2015)

Wam k364

...............


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Strange Magic said:


> Walton: Symphony#1


Yeah, I think of that one as a great masterpiece among 'symphonies' proper.

For Ravel I'd say Daphnis and Chloe, it gets played a lot in concert but there might be a reason for that. The lavish opulence comes across as being irresistible.

For Wagner I'd say die walkure....the drama, power and intensity of it in parts is so excessive that I actually think Wagner could be described as channeling fathomless archetypes as much as composing.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Jerome said:


> Wam k364
> 
> ...............


I like your style,:tiphat:
My choice also .


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> For Ravel I'd say Daphnis and Chloe, it gets played a lot in concert but there might be a reason for that.


I also thought about Daphnis, which I dearly love, but decided on the Left Hand because I sense that every note is exactly where it needs to be; my involvement never flags. But who can top the Daybreak music in Daphnis?


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

From what I can tell, currently:

Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 4
Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio in A minor
Mahler: Symphony No. 9


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Carlo Gesualdo - Miserere
Thomas Tallis - spem in alium
Arvo Part - fratres
Gorecki - beatus vir


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## Combinebobnt (Jul 21, 2015)

Bach's Art of Fugue
Beethoven's Quartet 14
Liszt's Transcendental Etudes
Elgar's Enigma Variations


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