# Compromising timing for expression



## hagridindminor (Nov 5, 2015)

I'm not sure if you know this but the standard way to record is to just put on a click track, keep on doing the same riff until you manage to get it perfectly in time to the metronome. I have to admit, I have not been playing with a metronome for a very long time and I know I should start doing that. With that being said, in order to get it to a click, my entire focus needs to be focused on timing alone, no dynamics, expression, accentuations ect and the entire thing needs to be simplified. I could however completely disregard the click or perhaps use it as a guideline so that the music does not stray too much from the original tempo which would give complete creative freedom. My question is, just how crucial is tempo, I mean are there any good recordings or known songs which do not align to a single metronome? (Not including intentional tempo shifts)


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ there are metronome fascists out there, who proselytise that the composer's metronome markings are sacrosanct and should be adhered to without deviation, but it is much more common to take such markings as an *indication* of tempo

The history of recorded music is full of variations in tempi - and I for one, am very happy that interpretation is a key facet of classical music


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

hagridindminor said:


> I'm not sure if you know this but the standard way to record is to just put on a click track, keep on doing the same riff until you manage to get it perfectly in time to the metronome. I have to admit, I have not been playing with a metronome for a very long time and I know I should start doing that. With that being said, in order to get it to a click, my entire focus needs to be focused on timing alone, no dynamics, expression, accentuations ect and the entire thing needs to be simplified. I could however completely disregard the click or perhaps use it as a guideline so that the music does not stray too much from the original tempo which would give complete creative freedom. My question is, just how crucial is tempo, I mean are there any good recordings or known songs which do not align to a single metronome? (Not including intentional tempo shifts)


You are aware that no one in classical music records this way, right? And that the vast majority of classical music, especially after 1800, would never be played with the regularity of a metronome?


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

I have nothing to add about recording in classical music genres... However, I've played guitar most of my life, and one of the biggest advice that the best guitar shredders out there (John Petrucci, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Michael Angelo Batio, just to name a few...) say that working with metronomes is really the way to get your speed, confidence, and phrasing just right. While at first it may seem mechanical, getting used to having such a constant pulse eventually becomes so second nature that you actually CAN focus on dynamics and expression. It gets to a point where the metronome is not the only thing you can focus on, but is simply in the back of your mind, setting the clock speed for your engine so to speak.

This is also important in how modern music is recorded, as it's virtually always done a single part at a time. That is, the drum track is recorded, then the base track is recorded over that, then guitars over that, then vocals over that, etc... Not always in this order. Because of this, it's very important that all of these parts be moving at the same speed so they sync up. I learned this myself when recording multiple guitar parts at different times when trying to make my own metal songs. I'd record the rhythm guitar for example, then the lead guitar over that, and add in the bass guitar, in any order I saw fit. If done right, this allows you to even copy a single iteration of the rhythm guitar onto every other place where that rhythm is necessary/wanted within your recording program. This may not be the way every single rock group does it, but I'm sure it's a relatively common way of doing it. This ensures perfect consistency between the rhythm sections all throughout the song since they are literally perfect copies of a single iteration.

Once again, I have no idea how much this applies to classical, and from the sounds of it, it really doesn't apply at all. But it's my two cents on the use of a metronome.

Edit: In short, I do not believe timing and expression are mutually exclusive. There is no compromise that has to be made. You can have your cake and eat it too.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

When you are a student, you have to do what your teachers say. But when you are free, pleasure is the only law.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Dedalus said:


> I have nothing to add about recording in classical music genres... However, I've played guitar most of my life, and one of the biggest advice that the best guitar shredders out there (John Petrucci, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Michael Angelo Batio, just to name a few...) say that working with metronomes is really the way to get your speed, confidence, and phrasing just right. While at first it may seem mechanical, getting used to having such a constant pulse eventually becomes so second nature that you actually CAN focus on dynamics and expression. It gets to a point where the metronome is not the only thing you can focus on, but is simply in the back of your mind, setting the clock speed for your engine so to speak.
> 
> This is also important in how modern music is recorded, as it's virtually always done a single part at a time. That is, the drum track is recorded, then the base track is recorded over that, then guitars over that, then vocals over that, etc... Not always in this order. Because of this, it's very important that all of these parts be moving at the same speed so they sync up. I learned this myself when recording multiple guitar parts at different times when trying to make my own metal songs. I'd record the rhythm guitar for example, then the lead guitar over that, and add in the bass guitar, in any order I saw fit. If done right, this allows you to even copy a single iteration of the rhythm guitar onto every other place where that rhythm is necessary/wanted within your recording program. This may not be the way every single rock group does it, but I'm sure it's a relatively common way of doing it. This ensures perfect consistency between the rhythm sections all throughout the song since they are literally perfect copies of a single iteration.
> 
> ...


I agree with all you have written, especially the parts about practicing with a metronome. It is worth noting, however, that some rock bands, (e.g., Zappa, King Crimson, Henry Cow) occasionally did whole supposedly studio albums by just recording off the house board in a particularly good hall and then adjusting balance or adding a few overdubs.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

^^^ I wouldn't pretend to know enough to comment about performance practice in non-classical music, but as it is 'Talk Classical' I will restate my position with reference to a quote by Liszt: "One must not imprint on music a balanced uniformity, but kindle it, or slow it down, according to its meaning."


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Somehow I think this whole discussion belongs on a non-classical forum. Classical music for which performers get in a tempo rut (most often Baroque, but not exclusively) is derided as "sewing machine music."


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

From a performance perspective, practicing with strict timing is important. Being very good at confidently playing a piece in strict time gives you the freedom to deviate from it.


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## kartikeys (Mar 16, 2013)

Beethoven comes to mind immediately. I feel at times we can favour expression; the time-lords won't mind.
I am in favour of such interpretations. Including for Chopin. 
We can speed up a certain part and compensate elsewhere.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

science said:


> When you are a student, you have to do what your teachers say. But when you are free, pleasure is the only law.


I've learned more from being free after having been chained as a student, than I did from actually being taught. But prior to being taught, I was just spinning my wheels a lot. So there was much value in going through it(being a pupil) and then having the time afterwards to process it and get away from the restraints.


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## Grizzled Ghost (Jun 10, 2015)

science said:


> When you are a student, you have to do what your teachers say. But when you are free, pleasure is the only law.


Really? I thought the law was suffering.


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

hagridindminor said:


> I'm not sure if you know this but the standard way to record is to just put on a click track, keep on doing the same riff until you manage to get it perfectly in time to the metronome.


Recording classical music isn't done this way, but most pop music is recorded in this fashion.
I doubt that you'll find many classical recordings where the tempo is exact. The use of rubato (making some notes longer and others shorter) is a vital part of expression but it needs to be used judiciously. 
The metronome should be your friend - and is there to help you bring a piece to rhythmic precision and the correct speed. Let it be just a learning tool and should be discontinued once the notes are "under your fingers". Then, you can turn a piece of technical mastery into a thing of beauty.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

As a performer on pipe organ, I have to alter the 'suggested' tempo depending on the acoustical properties of the building where the organ is situated. What works as a presto tempo in a dead acoustic will sound like a total garbled mess in a very live acoustic area. 

Articulation also comes into play regarding a rooms acoustical properties at the organ keyboard.


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## Johann Sebastian Bach (Dec 18, 2015)

Krummhorn said:


> As a performer on pipe organ, I have to alter the 'suggested' tempo depending on the acoustical properties of the building where the organ is situated. What works as a presto tempo in a dead acoustic will sound like a total garbled mess in a very live acoustic area.
> 
> Articulation also comes into play regarding a rooms acoustical properties at the organ keyboard.


An excellent point. I conduct two choirs - my chamber choir performs in lofty acoustics, where tempi are usually slower than indicated in order to avoid mushy sounds. My community choir's home city doesn't have any such acoustics, so tempi are faster.

I had the misfortune of conducting the Dark Bubble* in an incredibly resonant cathedral, where even an Adagio tempo would have failed to render the piece coherent. It was a programming mistake which should not have been made.

* What we musos in the UK call Bach's Double Violin Concerto.


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