# Beethoven's sonatas - Daniel Barenboim



## Pieck

I found a cycle of the sonatas and I consider buying it.
Do you have opinions? Would you recommend it? Anything else?


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## Aramis

Barenboim can't play the piano :tiphat:


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## Webernite

Artur Schnabel (low sound quality), Sviatoslav Richter, Solomon, Emil Gilels and Claudio Arrau all play Beethoven better. I'd try Claudio Arrau, if it's your first set.


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## Weston

Aramis said:


> Barenboim can't play the piano :tiphat:


I wouldn't go that far. I find him fairly transparent, like Ashkenazy (not a bad thing).

I prefer Andras Schiff's interpretations. Why not sample different ones on YouTube to get an idea?


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## Lipatti

If you want a complete set, I'd go for Kempff or Arrau (or Schanbel, if you're comfortable with the inferior sound quality). I like Richter, Pollini and Gilels, but none of them have recorded all the sonatas (Gilels was close to, but then he passed away). Brendel and Schiff would also be better choices than Barenboim, in my opinion.


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## Aramis

Weston said:


> I wouldn't go that far. I find him fairly transparent, like Ashkenazy (not a bad thing).


Ashkenazy at least has his area in which he is one of best (Russian music). Barenboim doesn't, from Chopin to Beethoven he is all vague and selfless.


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## Conor71

I have the Barenboim's first Beethoven PS cycle on EMI - it was my introduction to these works and I really like this set, it is one of the crown jewels of my collection .
The sound and playing are marvellous I think - I especially like the ay the slow movements are played.
I would recommend this set.


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## Tschaikowsky

I would suggest either Arrau or Brendel.


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## Kieran

I have the Brendel discs and they're excellent. I also have Mitsuko Uchida performing some of Beethoven's sonatas and she's quite brilliant, to my untrained ears....


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## Edward Elgar

Aramis said:


> Barenboim can't play the piano :tiphat:


Thank you!


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## zoziejemaar

Has anyone thoughts about Paul Lewis' Beethoven sonata cycle? From what I've heard of it (not much), I quite liked it.


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## Ukko

Aramis said:


> Barenboim can't play the piano :tiphat:


But he could, back before he became a busy conductor; same goes for Ashkenazy.

If you really want a set, Gilels' is the one. They aren't all there, but close enough; an amazing string of right-on interpretations, in very good sound. Schnabel's interpretations are mostly wonderful, but you really ought to be familiar with the music, so your 'inner ear' can provide the sound that the recordings don't.

:tiphat:

[The coordinated hat tipping is a nice effect]


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## Edward Elgar

Hilltroll72 said:


> But he could, back before he became a busy conductor; same goes for Ashkenazy.


Pianists who think they can conduct by default =   

But who am I to judge, their god-like presence gets bums on seats!


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## mueske

Edward Elgar said:


> Pianists who think they can conduct by default =
> 
> But who am I to judge, their god-like presence gets bums on seats!


I think he thinks he can conduct, because he can conduct.  I love his Tchaikovsky no. 4.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Not exactly the wheelhouse of my enthusiam, this topic, but like *Conor71*, 
some Barenboim recordings were my Beethoven Piano Sonatas gateway- and I value the renditions.

I also love Gilels- and regret that he didn't quite give us a complete set.

A complete Beethoven Sonatas set is very high on my list of upcoming candidate purchases... 
and after a bit of research, I'm torn between Richard Goode and Stephen Kovacevich.

(I'd strongly consider the Barenboim for myself, if it weren't for duplication issues.)


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## Ukko

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Not exactly the wheelhouse of my enthusiam, this topic, but like *Conor71*,
> some Barenboim recordings were my Beethoven Piano Sonatas gateway- and I value the renditions.
> 
> I also love Gilels- and regret that he didn't quite give us a complete set.
> 
> A complete Beethoven Sonatas set is very high on my list of upcoming candidate purchases...
> and after a bit of research, I'm torn between Richard Goode and Stephen Kovacevich.
> 
> (I'd strongly consider the Barenboim for myself, if it weren't for duplication issues.)


Goode is excellent in live recital, but the sonata set is studio, I think. Not so good, in a way not even Goode.

Kovacevich's high point is reached in the pieces in Op. 31. After that the power is evident but the poetry not so much. As a set it's pretty uneven.

I think there is no complete set that is consistently excellent, and probably won't be; the timeline for the process won't permit it. Schnabel came closest so far, but recording technology wasn't ready for him.

Those sonatas and their interpreters generate about as much controversy as they do appreciation (and there is for sure a lot of the latter).

:tiphat:


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## starry

In the earlier sonatas he can be ok sometimes. He puts thought into his interpretations at least, he's not boring.


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## Pieck

Thanks guys, eventually I listened to you and bought Giliels. Now I'm waiting for the package, suppose to arrive this week


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## Charon

Barenboim isn't my favourite, but he is very good with Beethoven IMO. I prefer Kempff and Ashkenazy, at least, though.


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## Ukko

Pieck said:


> Thanks guys, eventually I listened to you and bought Giliels. Now I'm waiting for the package, suppose to arrive this week


OK!

When it gets to you, kick back and listen to Beethoven; Gilels is 'just'* the messenger.

Sometime - before or after - you get to Op. 2/3, you could listen to Michelangelo play it. There's a recording from 1942 in Italy, and one from 1949 in Argentina that's very similar. After a minute or two the recorded sound probably won't matter.

*(The messenger/pianist corresponds to the narrator of the story.)


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## Pieck

What a bummer the last sonata is missing! now I need to find it, unlikely to be with the other two missing, 1 and 9


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## Air

Pieck said:


> What a bummer the last sonata is missing! now I need to find it, unlikely to be with the other two missing, 1 and 9


Here's an easy solution you won't regret (includes the last three sonatas and more):










http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004R8WM/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk


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## Ukko

Pieck said:


> What a bummer the last sonata is missing! now I need to find it, unlikely to be with the other two missing, 1 and 9


Jeez, try not to panic.

BTW, we ponderous, not to say elephantine oldtimers, tend to refer to the sonatas by their opus numbers. With the exception of Opp. 49 and 51 it helps us with 'periods'.

:devil:


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## Pieck

Hilltroll72 said:


> Jeez, try not to panic.
> 
> BTW, we ponderous, not to say elephantine oldtimers, tend to refer to the sonatas by their opus numbers. With the exception of Opp. 49 and 51 it helps us with 'periods'.
> 
> :devil:


You mean 53?
I dont remember all the number so that's a problem, but I'll try


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## Ukko

Pieck said:


> You mean 53?
> I dont remember all the number so that's a problem, but I'll try


Nope, don't mean 53. Op. 53 (one of the 'named' sonatas BTW) is definitely a 'middle period' work. Opp. 49 and 51 are anachronistic.

I really can think of only one good reason to prefer opus numbers to the numbering you use: their use locates the works chronologically within Beethoven's opera - sonatas, concertos, symphonies, etc. Sonata number 4 was composed way before Concerto number 4.

That's the ponderous oldtimer excuse, anyway.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Even though I dont like Barenboim as a person, I think that some of his Beethoven Sonatas are great, besides the Moonlight.


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## Moscow-Mahler

*Nelson Freire's *disk is very good, I suppose.


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## nickgray

I don't like his cycle. Well, at least I didn't when I first heard some of it (maybe two years ago or so). It's a very, very lethargic interpretation of these works that are supposed (for the most part) to be lively and full of emotion. I dunno, Celibidache, for instance, nails the whole "slow tempo" idea (one of the very few who does it rather successfully, I might add), while Barenboim sounds as if he was given a shot of lorazepam.


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## bassClef

Many of the Barenboim Beethoven sonatas are being shown on Sky Arts at the moment - I don't know if the OP can get this though.


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## Pieck

nickgray said:


> i don't like his cycle. Well, at least i didn't when i first heard some of it (maybe two years ago or so). It's a very, very lethargic interpretation of these works that are supposed (for the most part) to be lively and full of emotion. I dunno, celibidache, for instance, nails the whole "slow tempo" idea (one of the very few who does it rather successfully, i might add), while barenboim sounds as if he was given a shot of lorazepam.


נחמד לראות פה דוברי עברית :tiphat:


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## Ravellian

Funny how no one seems to recommend the *John O'Connor* recordings whenever Beethoven is brought up. I have always preferred these recordings; for me they bring just the right balance of passion, intellect, and restraint. With technical perfection, of course. Maybe it's because they were my introduction to Beethoven? Who knows...


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## scytheavatar

Ravellian said:


> Funny how no one seems to recommend the *John O'Connor* recordings whenever Beethoven is brought up. I have always preferred these recordings; for me they bring just the right balance of passion, intellect, and restraint. With technical perfection, of course. Maybe it's because they were my introduction to Beethoven? Who knows...


His set is rather basic and a bit boring. The set with the right balance of passion, intellect, and restraint with technical perfection is probably the extremely underrated Claude Frank set.


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## solkorset

From the names you mention I surmise that you only consider the financially strong record companies and the media hyped up pseudo heroes. There are numerous excellent young (or not so young) Beethoven pianists today with a complete series. Before I mention any of them let me recommend one of the greatest Beethoven interpreters: The norwegian pianist Robert Riefling. His set is artistically outstanding. He recorded them all in the 60ies and if I remember the record company's name correctly it was Valois, a french one. I got two of these LP records for birthday presents when I was a child and they have followed me through life. 

But as for other more recent recordings: Louis Lortie is really good and never blunders a sonata. Markus Becker has not recorded all but is good. The same goes for Bruce Hungerford. And Roland Pontinen. And Marie Rorbech. Robert Benz is excellent at times but hammers too much elsewhere (complete set). Michael Houstoun is rather good, but not the best (complete). The same can be said about Gerhard Oppitz (complete). Alfred Brendel is a dependable interpreter and a safe choice but I wouldn't prefer him. Bernard Roberts is worth a try (complete). Gerard Willems too (complete). Anton Kuerti plays at least some of them well.

In conclusion, if I was going to buy a complete set I would probably choose Louis Lortie.


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## emiellucifuge

Could some members who have stated things such as this:



Aramis said:


> Barenboim can't play the piano :tiphat:


please qualify this for the benefit of myself and others who arent so knowledgeable?


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## quietfire

emiellucifuge said:


> Could some members who have stated things such as this:
> 
> please qualify this for the benefit of myself and others who arent so knowledgeable?


He cannot play the piano _well_.


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## KenOC

quietfire said:


> He cannot play the piano _well_.


Yeah, what a klutz!


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## Pugg

quietfire said:


> He cannot play the piano _well_.


Must be you then, otherwise he would not last that long.


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## WaterRat

solkorset said:


> ... The same goes for Bruce Hungerford.


Bruce Hungerford is my favourite interpreter of Beethoven.


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## WaterRat

quietfire said:


> He cannot play the piano _well_.


Yes, I remember buying a box set of Barenboim/Beethoven sonatas more than 20 years ago. When I got home and gave them a test drive I so was disappointed.

At least he's good at talking about music, I guess.


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## DavidA

What about Annie Fischer?


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## Julius Seizure

DavidA said:


> What about Annie Fischer?


Noo! Pollini! Pollini! best old italian play beethoven bravura yes!


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## Pugg

DavidA said:


> What about Annie Fischer?


She's good, very good, but sometimes I like another interpretation.


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