# How Important Do You Value Originality As A Listener?



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I can't help but have a picture of how some great works must be perceived (and conceived) in its original time. So for me it's very important. In fact, I think there are certain things about an original work that can't be replicated or transferred in its style. Some works I think have this space-time vortex is Beethoven's 9th, Wagner's Liebestod, Debussy's Prelude to an Afternoon, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

But I do encounter listeners that place much less emphasis on originality, and more on how music affects them across time to this day. How do you see it?


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

I've written about 9 answers to your comment and have erased each one of them. I guess I'd start with "begging the question". What does it mean to place less emphasis on originality? Doesn't that risk being a loaded question? Maybe those listener's perception of originality is different?


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> I can't help but have a picture of how some great works must be perceived (and conceived) in its original time. So for me it's very important. In fact, I think there are certain things about an original work that can't be replicated or transferred in its style. Some works I think have this space-time vortex is Beethoven's 9th, Wagner's Liebestod, Debussy's Prelude to an Afternoon, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.
> 
> But I do encounter listeners that place much less emphasis on originality, and more on how music affects them across time to this day. How do you see it?


I have understood that there are two kinds of artists, a term which would include composers: 1) the innovators and 2) those whose style represents a culmination and perfection of previous innovation.

Each has its place and both are of equal importance, IMO.


----------



## Dima (Oct 3, 2016)

I think originality is the main quality of art. But 100% original work is unreal to find if it looks like music. For example Beethoven 9 symphony is not very original work - listen what was written by Mehul in 1800: 



 (for me it is more original work).


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

it depends on how you define originality? If it means having your unique voice, then it is important for me. If it means constantly breaking new musical conventions like the avant-garde, then it is not important to me. Composers like Dvořák did not break any new musical grounds, yet they have unique voice.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

It's common for people to see the pre-Romantic era masters as "craftsmen" rather than "artists" (I can see why), but in certain cases their "traits of individuality" (which seem more "intrinsic", rather than "extrinsic" compared to the Romantics) are fascinatingly apparent to me. Especially C.P.E. Bach. As for the Haydn brothers, Michael has an austere feel (rather "husky") in his way to write for voices in what we call "stile antico", while Joseph is generally more pompous in the style of the Esterhazies (especially in the later works).

[Bernstein: "But notice that Mozart's theme is already chromatically formed. And even more so when it repeats"]

3:07 , 3:18
8:22 , 9:50
14:00 , 14:30



hammeredklavier said:


> I regularly listen to guys like Michael Haydn and Adolph Hasse. In Michael, I hear some chromatic excursions reminding of Mozart, but he's just not "eccentric in character", spontaneous or edgy in the way Mozart is. (Joseph is actually far more different. I think Michael is more similar to Mozart in terms of style and output produced, - about 40 symphonies, 20 string quartets, 6 string quintets, litanies, vespers, requiems, serenades, divertimentos. Both Michael and Mozart spent their formative years in Salzburg, unlike Joseph.)
> 
> By spontaneous chromaticism in Mozart, I mean something like this, in K.167, which suddenly takes us from G minor to E major:
> 
> ...





hammeredklavier said:


> Also don't forget the eldest Brother, who is more "capricious" in feel:


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Originality is a side-feature of the wisest craftsmen.

Beethoven is one of the most difficult composers to replicate.


----------



## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Dima said:


> I think originality is the main quality of art..


ditto

.............


----------



## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

Of course, I think a good listener in our modern age is as important as a being a good composer in the classical times. After the French Revolution, we have new trend of individualism, which promotes devine rights to each person to hold property legally and express their views freely under regulation of fair laws. So, bourgeoisie class came first and then the commies, they are the two major forces that rule our world today. Both of them are rooted in all sorts of cultural vulgarities as we can witness. But in any age, ancient times or our times, it is never important to lead the public to understand the truth, rather, the awakening of the individuals is the point. One of the most important tool for this purpose is the self-reflective ideology: 


> Since everything is a reflection of our minds, everything can be changed by our minds.


Buddha

The way we see the world is the reflection of ourself, of course in application to music, it is never an exaggeration that each great musical work shall reflect each listener like the world does, and each individual can develop unique experiences and their own ways of appreciation with and of the same musical work. First of all, music must be understood as important enough to apply new philosophies, for most people who just use music as a means of recreation, will never bother to tap into their best resources to enjoy music.

Also as a pure listener, we can be compared to ancient aristocrats which had the priviledge to enjoy the latest music first hand, especially the classical music. The resources enjoyed today by us is unprecedented and far far far more resourceful than ancient aristocracy, but we still have to bother with general public messes. It is not easy to take up the role of a pure listener, and will never be a stretch to take in some aristocratic spirit and classical cultures to develop better understanding of the music.

To develop each ones own musical listening taste, just like how each different professional harpsichordist and organist all strive to develop their own musical languages, they are first of all listeners. I am striving to attain such level, and applying my best ideas into listening experiences, not even to learning music. Learning music is secondary to listening although necessary, because all people think music is always for everybody to learn, so everybody does not want to listen carefully and only want compose their own garbages. Any kind of learning must serve ro better the listening experience, I only schedule my learning plan according to listening progress, and will never venture to promote any new musical theories other than classical ones.


----------

