# What do you consider the first instance of a concerto as we know it today?



## level82rat (Jun 20, 2019)

And since the word "concerto" has changed meaning throughout time, what is your checklist for what you consider a proper concerto?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

A modern concerto, rather than older "concertos" that today we consider to be cantatas or concerto grossi, consist of a sonata-structured work with a soloist and orchestral accompaniment. By that definition:

"The earliest known solo concertos are nos. 6 and 12 of Giuseppe Torelli's Op. 6 of 1698. These works employ both a three-movement cycle and clear (if diminutive) ritornello form, like that of the ripieno concerto except that sections for the soloist and continuo separate the orchestral ritornellos."

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/s...,continuo separate the orchestral ritornellos.


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## level82rat (Jun 20, 2019)

chu42 said:


> A modern concerto, rather than older "concertos" that today we consider to be cantatas or concerto grossi, consist of a sonata-structured work with a soloist and orchestral accompaniment. By that definition:
> 
> "The earliest known solo concertos are nos. 6 and 12 of Giuseppe Torelli's Op. 6 of 1698. These works employ both a three-movement cycle and clear (if diminutive) ritornello form, like that of the ripieno concerto except that sections for the soloist and continuo separate the orchestral ritornellos."
> 
> https://courses.lumenlearning.com/s...,continuo separate the orchestral ritornellos.


That answers a question from one perspective, but what about concertos which have a cadenza?


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

level82rat said:


> That answers a question from one perspective, but what about concertos which have a cadenza?


Many works labelled "concerto" have had cadenzas even before the modern definition of concerto. Baroque musicians were very fond of cadenzas, and many composers would write cadenzas or give the soloist time to improvise their own cadenza. For example, Bach's Brandenburg concerti feature cadenzas heavily, and so do his concerti for solo keyboard.











It's safe to say that the earliest solo concerti also had cadenzas, either written, improvised, or both. Essentially all solo performers worth their salt were expected to perform cadenzas regardless of whether the composer intended it or not.


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## level82rat (Jun 20, 2019)

chu42 said:


> For example, Bach's Brandenburg concerti feature cadenzas heavily, and so do his concerti for solo keyboard.


That keyboard cadenza is fantastic! Thanks for the answer and examples.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*What do you consider the first instance of a concerto as we know it today?*



level82rat said:


> And since the word "concerto" has changed meaning throughout time, what is your checklist for what you consider a proper concerto?


A guy named Ug pounded his club (his "prop") against a rock while members of his cave-dwelling tribe howled in accompaniment. _That_ is the first "proper" concerto, I suspect. It's affectionately called the "Rock 1", and should not be confused for a later composition by a certain Russian keyboard pounder.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

level82rat said:


> That keyboard cadenza is fantastic! Thanks for the answer and examples.


Happy to help, let me know if you have any more questions.


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