# An (Almost) Forgotten Composer: Carl Maria von Weber 1786-1826



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Carl Maria von Weber as an almost exact contemporary of Beethoven was an example the early stage of the Romantic classical era. To his credit, his music is in no way derivative of his far more famous and influential peer. While he is not by any means unknown by classical music listeners, his music seems to have largely faded from the repertoire over the last 2 decades or so.

However, considering that he lived a relatively short 39 years, his output was substantial and varied. It is highly melodic and accessible music. The operas, Der Freischutz, Euryanthe and Oberon are important works and should be heard more often, particularly Der Freischutz. The Aria, 'Leise, Leise' is one of the most beautiful arias ever written.

Piano Concerto #1, Adagio. I know of only two other piano concerto adagios where the cellos open with the theme, the little known Rosenhain (circa 1886) and the Brahms #2 so it would seem that Weber came up with the idea first:






Der Freischutz Aria: Leise, leise, fromme Weise. What a wonderful aria!:






Clarinet Concerto #1, Adagio:






Euryanthe Aria: "Glöcklein im Thale! Rieseln im Bach"


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

A very underrated figure. I'm a great fan of his clarinet works.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Yes, l love the clarinet concertos, they are always a pleasure to listen to


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^^But along with the Concertino are extremely difficult to play.


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## Rhinotop (Jul 8, 2016)

Weber is great. I like a lot his music, I love his overtures. Der Freischütz is the best.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Weber is a great composer, which is a fact. His clarinet concerto is wonderful.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Haydn man said:


> Yes, l love the clarinet concertos, they are always a pleasure to listen to


Yes, great clarinet concerti, he also wrote an excellent bassoon concerto - plus the flashy Andante and Hungarian Rondo...
the overtures are really neat, too.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

hpowders said:


> ^^^^But along with the Concertino are extremely difficult to play.


Perhaps try the Concertina


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

He is not almost forgotten, he have die hard fans.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Pugg said:


> He is not almost forgotten, he have die hard fans.


Weber's two symphonies and some of his concertos are readily available, as is some of his chamber music. I find his music pretty variable.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Weber's two symphonies and some of his concertos are readily available, as is some of his chamber music. I find his music pretty variable.


 The Gaudier Ensemble has a wonderful disc with his chamber music.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Hyperion/CDA67464


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Hail to Von Weber!

"Der Freischutz" is a real unique masterpiece and its' "wolfsschluchtszene" is the most exciting piece of music I know (yet) everytime I hear it, it's as fresh and exciting as the last time.

His biography is quite exciting too.

Other pieces of him I particularly like are his Konzertstück für Klavier und Orchester, Op.79 and his piano sonata no3


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

You can fairly say Weber's not well known to the general public, but on TC my composer polls put his popularity roughly on a par with Vivaldi and Schoenberg.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Nereffid said:


> You can fairly say Weber's not well known to the general public, but on TC my composer polls put his popularity roughly on a par with Vivaldi and Schoenberg.


I rest my case! 

Seriously, I know what you're saying, but my point really was that whereas in the 20th century, his music, particularly the operas, were being more frequently recorded and scheduled for performance, his music is now relatively rarely mentioned or performed. At least that is my sense in North America.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Rhinotop said:


> Weber is great. I like a lot his music, I love his overtures. Der Freischütz is the best.


Der Freischutz is fantastic. I rank it right up there with Fidelio, which means I need to buy about 20 more Freischutz CD sets to equal my Fidelio collection. :lol:


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

He has a real feel for the clarinet. He is the primary composer for the instrument between Mozart and Brahms.


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## ToneDeaf&Senile (May 20, 2010)

I don't think anyone's mentioned a favorite of mine, the Andante e Rondo Ungarese. Most often heard with bassoon soloist, occasionally viola, my current favorite interpretation is one featuring an instrument at least as close to being "forgotten" by the public at large as this thread's title claims the composer to be...the ophicheide.


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## Portamento (Dec 8, 2016)

Almost forgotten my :tiphat:!

Try Ries or Onslow for a change.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

I imagine that some/many ? here would say his voice is too light, but I love this aria from_ Euryanthe_ performed by Christian Gerhaher. Wo_ Berg ich mich_:


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

P.S. Thank you for creating this thread, DaveM, and for resurrecting it, Fritz!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Carl Maria von Weber: 6 songs, wonderful music.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

jegreenwood said:


> He has a real feel for the clarinet. He is the primary composer for the instrument between Mozart and Brahms.


I would select Crusell for that title.

But I like his concertante works and the opera overtures. And even his chestnut Aufforderung zum Tanz.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

ToneDeaf&Senile said:


> I don't think anyone's mentioned a favorite of mine, the Andante e Rondo Ungarese. Most often heard with bassoon soloist, occasionally viola, my current favorite interpretation is one featuring an instrument at least as close to being "forgotten" by the public at large as this thread's title claims the composer to be...the ophicheide.


It was mentioned by Heck148, but here's a performance with the viola played by Yuri Bashmet (two parts):


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

ToneDeaf&Senile said:


> I don't think anyone's mentioned a favorite of mine, the Andante e Rondo Ungarese. Most often heard with bassoon soloist, occasionally viola,


I previously mentioned it, along with his excellent Concerto for Bassoon and Orchestra....


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> I previously mentioned it, along with his excellent Concerto for Bassoon and Orchestra....


Do you have a favorite performance of his Concerto for Bassoon and Orchestra? If it's available on YouTube, please post a link. Thank you.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> Do you have a favorite performance of his Concerto for Bassoon and Orchestra? If it's available on YouTube, please post a link. Thank you.


No, actually I do not....for the Andante and Hungarian Rondo, tho - Get Bernard Garfield/ Ormandy.PhilaORch....great playing....
one of the first A&HR recordings was an LP[ Turnabout??] with George Zukerman a Canadian bassoonist. the disc included the Concerto in F....
contrast with Garfiled provides one of those most interesting "audio illusions"...the end of the Rondo features a very rapid passage of all 16th note triplets - very flashy and show-y....Zukerman's recording was a budget deal, he probably got only one shot at it - but he takes it very fast, but it is sloppy, hashy, and not clean...Garfield,OTOH.....takes it maybe just a click or two slower -still pretty zippy, but plays it flawlessly, clean as a whistle, with phrasing, and style...Garfield's, because it is so clean and accurate - SOUNDS faster than Zukerman's actually faster, but sloppy rendition....


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## Boston Charlie (Dec 6, 2017)

In "The Lives of the Great Composers", Harold Schonberg makes the case that it was more Weber and not Beethoven who was important in founding the musical language of the Romantic Era. According to Schonberg, the idea that Beethoven had invented the Romantic era was more a Romantic notion based upon how much Romantic-era musicians admired and worshipped Beethoven's feeling of struggle, heroism and creative powers; but Schonberg contends that, musically, Beethoven essentially remains a composer in the style of Classical era after Haydn and Mozart.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> No, actually I do not....for the Andante and Hungarian Rondo, tho - Get Bernard Garfield/ Ormandy.PhilaORch....great playing....
> one of the first A&HR recordings was an LP[ Turnabout??] with George Zukerman a Canadian bassoonist. the disc included the Concerto in F....
> contrast with Garfiled provides one of those most interesting "audio illusions"...the end of the Rondo features a very rapid passage of all 16th note triplets - very flashy and show-y....Zukerman's recording was a budget deal, he probably got only one shot at it - but he takes it very fast, but it is sloppy, hashy, and not clean...Garfield,OTOH.....takes it maybe just a click or two slower -still pretty zippy, but plays it flawlessly, clean as a whistle, with phrasing, and style...Garfield's, because it is so clean and accurate - SOUNDS faster than Zukerman's actually faster, but sloppy rendition....


Thank you, Heck, I am going to investigate the available recordings this weekend. I don't do vinyl, but it might be available for download somewhere. Also, are you a great fan of Weber in general? What do you think of Gerhaher's performance of _Wo Berg ich mich_?


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Boston Charlie said:


> In "The Lives of the Great Composers", Harold Schonberg makes the case that it was more Weber and not Beethoven who was important in founding the musical language of the Romantic Era. According to Schonberg, the idea that Beethoven had invented the Romantic era was more a Romantic notion based upon how much Romantic-era musicians admired and worshipped Beethoven's feeling of struggle, heroism and creative powers; but Schonberg contends that, musically, Beethoven essentially remains a composer in the style of Classical era after Haydn and Mozart.


This is very interesting, Charlie! We should all look into this a bit more, with examples, etc.. Also, I've just asked Heck, but what is your opinion of Gerhaher's performance of Wo Berg ich Mich--posted above? No one has ever responded to my several posts of this performance (here and in several other threads). Thanks.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I have enjoyed this cd for a while now.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

JosefinaHW said:


> This is very interesting, Charlie! We should all look into this a bit more, with examples, etc.. Also, I've just asked Heck, but what is your opinion of Gerhaher's performance of Wo Berg ich Mich--posted above? No one has ever responded to my several posts of this performance (here and in several other threads). Thanks.


I did listen to it, wonderful music , great voice but... not one I get very excited for, sorry.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

JosefinaHW said:


> Do you have a favorite performance of his Concerto for Bassoon and Orchestra? If it's available on YouTube, please post a link. Thank you.


I checked Arkiv for available recordings - of those listed, I'd go for the Klaus Thuneman/Marriner/ASMF recording....this disc also includes the Andante & Hungarian Rondo, and the Hummel Grand Concerto in F - a major work for bassoon.
Thunneman is a fine bassoonist - I'm sure this disc is top notch...


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> I checked Arkiv for available recordings - of those listed, I'd go for the Klaus Thuneman/Marriner/ASMF recording....this disc also includes the Andante & Hungarian Rondo, and the Hummel Grand Concerto in F - a major work for bassoon.
> Thunneman is a fine bassoonist - I'm sure this disc is top notch...


Thank you, Heck. I will explore this in the next several days.


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

Weber's operas had a profound effect on Wagner, probably more so than any composer. Weber was truly one of the the first real romantic composers. Glenn Gould once said that if Mozart had lived into the romantic period, Wolfie's music would have sounded like Weber. Berlioz was also influenced by Weber although it was Beethoven that Berlioz saw as revolutionary to the musical times. 
Weber was very young when he died and most likely had not created what would have been his greatest work. He is somewhat over-looked in my estimation, but anyone who knows their classical music history would acknowledge his importance to the grand scheme of the art. I find his music to be very good and quite original. He was an excellent craftsman. He wrote quality music in every medium. Some of it is variable, yes.....the two symphonies are pleasant but hardly groundbreaking. His Clarinet music is very important. He had a gift in composing for that instrument. His Opera was very influential, his overtures are a lot of fun. 
Lots of sauerkraut! The chamber music is quality stuff. His solo piano music is very much overlooked and quite unique. The first true German romantic? Maybe so.


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