# Using the overture to start the stage drama? Okay or not?



## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

There's a recent trend in traditional opera (in which there's an overture) to use the "dead time" of the overture to set the stage for the opera's action, all the stagecraft of course done in pantomime. Three examples where it seemed to work okay:

In the superb Royal Opera DVD of Mozart's Marriage of Figaro (in my estimation the best video ever of Nozze), during the overture the court prepares for the upcoming wedding festivities. Valets and maids are seen cleaning, dusting, gathering things, under supervision of a majordomo and supervisor. Toward the end of the overture, Figaro appears (carrying the Count's boots) and is teased by the servant guys about his impending marriage.

In the new DVD of the Met's Vegas-themed Rigoletto, we watch as Rigoletto quickly escorts Gilda toward his apartment, seen by Marullo. Of course, Marullo mistakes Gilda as Rig's new squeeze and tells the courtiers about it in Scene 1.

In our local opera's production of Don Pasquale, it was reset to the 50s (like old Palm Beach in Florida) and Pasquale lived in a seaside retirement resort that was "invaded" by his ward's young friends, all on roller skates. Anyway, during the overture, Pasquale was finishing up his "swim" in which he was wearing an old-style one-piece bathing suit, and "swam" from the lobby down the aisle to climb out of the "pool" onto the stage. I was his valet and waited there with a robe, and a shaker of martinis for him and his pal Doc Malatesta. (Incidentally, in this 50s-era retirement resort setting, when Malatesta sings his paen to lovely women, two of our female chorus gals, both of whom were middle-aged but good looking, appeared in "pinup poster" swimsuits and laid out by the "pool" as examples of female beauty)

Anyway, there seems to be a trend to use the overture as a time during which to set the stage and advance early plot elements. The 3 examples I have were pretty okay and I really don't know of any failed examples.

Your opinions and if you can, please list the specific examples. Thanks.


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## suteetat (Feb 25, 2013)

I think it is perfectly acceptable if there is a good reason to do it. I think one of the earliest production that I am aware of that was doing something like this was Zeffirelli's Traviata with Callas (can't remember where now, back when Zeffirelli was a great director with interesting idea rather than bigger, more people, more animal, more elaborate staging is better approach) where the brief overture was basically the beginning of the last act where Violetta was wandering around her empty house. Act I and II then became a flashback as Violetta was recalling her good old day. 
If nothing else, when there is somebody on stage, people tends to be more quiet and don't talk so much through the overture until the singing starts


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The audience for the opera is more disinclined to just listen to music from orchestra in the pit - little to watch, and all are anticipating the visual spectacle of sets, motion, action, music altogether.

I prefer "the reveal" and not seeing how all the stagecraft is done. It is, imo, rather plebeian to need or want to see the mechanics, and it more than undermines the illusion which is, or used to be, a large part of the theatrical experience.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

There may be a really compelling reason for a specific production to raise the curtain during the overture, but as a "trend", I don't like it at all.

I need the transformation time to leave my regular day behind, and get ready for what's expecting me, especially for the specific musical language of the evening. It's a chance to collect myself, and I believe this transitional phase heightens my senses. When the scene begins, _then_ I'm ready.


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## guythegreg (Jun 15, 2012)

The Met's recent Parsifal used the overture to really incredible stage effect, which unfortunately the rest of the opera didn't live up to. I'll never forget the Carolyn Choa choreography. Oddly enough I don't remember what actually happened very well! I guess it had so much of an effect on me that only bits and pieces remain. Well, that's true of opera in general, at least with me. Bits and pieces remain, and the rest is gone.

The Met's Madama Butterfly does something similar, too - a Chinese dancer comes on and helps set the scene. And in their Barber of Seville, Bartolo and Ambrogio are on stage doing a little sketch during the overture. It's funny and useful, everybody always laughs.

I really don't have a problem with the general practice of putting some stage action into the overture. I kind of like it actually - shakes things up a bit and gets you thinking OK, something new and interesting is going to happen now.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Ebab said:


> There may be a really compelling reason for a specific production to raise the curtain during the overture, but as a "trend", I don't like it at all.
> 
> I need the transformation time to leave my regular day behind, and get ready for what's expecting me, especially for the specific musical language of the evening. It's a chance to collect myself, and I believe this transitional phase heightens my senses. When the scene begins, _then_ I'm ready.


Excellent point! The overture gives us time to disassociate from the world outside and step into the theatrical world of opera.

I'm okay generally with the idea of _some_ action during the overture --- the Rigoletto "Vegas" from the Met was pretty tame. But the Royal Opera Nozze prelude was very busy, okay to see on DVD but maybe a bit intrusive if seen live?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

katdad said:


> But the Royal Opera Nozze prelude was very busy, okay to see on DVD but maybe a bit intrusive if seen live?


it might be that Nozze is done so often, the producers feel compelled to vamp it up every time.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

deggial said:


> it might be that Nozze is done so often, the producers feel compelled to vamp it up every time.


Possibly, but other than a "very busy" overture pantomime, the rest of the production was quite standard -- excellent acting by all principals, especially the Count, but a fairly conventional 18th century set and costumes otherwise. Nothing outrageous at all but "modern" acting, such as a really enraged Count slapping his wife at the end of their angry duet about "give me the key to the bedroom" (I forget the duet's title) and similar theatrics.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I saw it and I would say it fits the general mayhem of Nozze. To answer your initial question, it doesn't bother me. I'm very easy going about the production bit of any opera, provided it's not completely bonkers. They key is the singing then the conducting.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes, of course, the music (singing and orchestral) is the backbone of opera.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't know if that sounded snotty, it's just that the production is mostly eye-candy for me (one of the many possible visual takes on the libretto) and the overture is no difference. As long as the singers don't just stand there and sing _at me_ it's hard (but not unheard of) for what happens - or doesn't happen - on stage to phase me. As soon as I've taken my seat I'm ready for whatever they're throwing at me.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

Ebab said:


> I need the transformation time to leave my regular day behind, and get ready for what's expecting me, especially for the specific musical language of the evening. It's a chance to collect myself, and I believe this transitional phase heightens my senses. When the scene begins, _then_ I'm ready.


Very well put and I strongly agree. In addition, it's also a nice way give the orchestra and the conductor their moment in the spotlight. However, I don't mind a little bit of relevant scene-setting or mood-setting either.

As a positive example, I liked the set up to the McVicar Guilio Cesare with the servants sweeping the stage in slow motion. It provides some strong cues as to time and place - not to mention social and cultural strata- but in its monotony also invites you slow down, settle in, and enjoy the show they are preparing the stage for.

As an example of irrelevant scene-setting, I'll point to the Met's recent Carmen, which featured dance vignettes of Carmen and Don Jose during the overture and entr'actes. Both superfluous and distracting, but easy enough to shut out by closing your eyes.

What I don't usually like are involved scenes that try to recreate the backstory. Example: The Met's new Siegfried where Mime is depicted taking the infant Siegfried from the dying Sieglinde. Not horribly distracting, but still superfluous - the music says enough. I must say I found the manipulations of "the machine" itself during the musical interludes to be effective for the most part.

Even worse are Regie productions that use the unscripted overture period to establish the director's conceit and initiate the perversion of the story. I'm going to have to cite the Met's Parsifal, where a band of female grail devotees were presented during the overture.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Staging the overture or prelude _can_ be an excellent way to "fill the audience in" on the storyline in operas that are basically episodic. _La Traviata_ is a perfect example, because in that a considerable amount of the action is recounted or implied rather than shown. I pretty firmly believe that the _Traviata_ preludes should both be staged, and I even have an idea for the second prelude: omitting the intermission between Acts II and III, you could have everyone freeze at the close of the ensemble at Flora's party; the prelude could begin, and in slow motion everyone could start to move. Germont could take Alfredo home; Violetta's friends could look after her; and then you could show things like Violetta receiving Germont's letter and becoming sicker and bedridden, but still reading and re-reading the letter. You could end with her lying in bed, watched by Annina, which is how Act III is supposed to open. I wonder if anyone here has seen it done like this?

Some preludes/overtures don't seem to call for staging, though; I mean, I can't think of any reason why you'd want to stage the ones to _La Cenerentola_ or _Die Meistersinger_.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

In the _Attila_ I saw in Seattle, during the overture the scene showed Attila's people killing Odabella's father.

At the Q&A afterwards, Speight Jenkins explained the reason for this. He thought people would be puzzled as to why Odabella wanted to kill Attila as he'd been rather nice to her.

Useful if the audience don't know the story beforehand. I saw it three times and each time I got chatting to my seat neighbours and none of them knew the story. Perhaps it's common in Seattle for people to buy a 'season ticket' and not know the opera they're going to see. People were amazed I'd come all the way from England to see it.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I can't imagine attending an opera and not knowing the plot -- and having some familiarity with the music, if possible. But then I don't live in Seattle. :lol:


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## msegers (Oct 17, 2008)

I think my favorite opera DVD is the only DVD of Meyerbeer's _Dinorah_. The opera has an overture of about 12 or 13 minutes (judging from the length of Youtube videos), and during the overture, we see the action of a year before, which set up what happens in the opera. Since it is an opera that is not very well known anyway, that was especially helpful.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It depends on the nature of the music. Some charming young people bustling about and flirting could be pleasant during, say, the overture to _Cosi fan tutte_, intended to be light and diverting anyway. A quiet tableau would perhaps not be distracting in _La_ _Traviata_. But in general I prefer to let music generate its own images. Staging the preludes to, say, _Lohengrin_, _Tristan_ or _Parsifal_ should be a capital offense. The last of these was defiled at the Met recently, and even more hideously violated at Bayreuth in 2012. I'm still waiting for notice of the executions.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I was completely happy with the staged prelude to Parsifal at the Met. It was all slow, gentle almost liturgical movements, done behind a scrim, which started off opaque/mirrored and slowly shifted to allow limited visibility. It was all gentle and quiet and it didn't take anything away from the music for me.

That being said I'm certainly more liberal than most with regard to stage productions and am fine with staging the overture in general. I like having something to see; that's why I'm at the opera/watching video.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm okay with it. The bottom line is that it has to add something to the opera. Otherwise it's just padding. 

Having Siegmund caught in the storm at the beginning of Die Walkure worked for me.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

Heh, I'm reminded of seeing a production of _Lohengrin_ years ago where the action of the opera was updated to World War I and the stunning, ethereal music of the prelude was staged to depict Lohengrin in a surgeon's tent having his leg amputated. And it just so happened to be the first time I took my wife along to see an opera with me -- it was all she could do to smother her laughter, and my face was planted firmly in palm.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SilenceIsGolden said:


> Heh, I'm reminded of seeing a production of _Lohengrin_ years ago where the action of the opera was updated to World War I and the stunning, ethereal music of the prelude was staged to depict Lohengrin in a surgeon's tent having his leg amputated. And it just so happened to be the first time I took my wife along to see an opera with me -- it was all she could do to smother her laughter, and my face was planted firmly in palm.


Wow. So they had swan boats as well as U-boats in WW I?


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Wow. So they had swan boats as well as U-boats in WW I?


All swan paraphernalia was conspicuously missing from this particular production. But hey, Lohengrin with a prosthetic leg is just as fanciful and fun, right?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

suteetat said:


> I think it is perfectly acceptable if there is a good reason to do it. I think one of the earliest production that I am aware of that was doing something like this was Zeffirelli's Traviata with Callas (can't remember where now, back when Zeffirelli was a great director with interesting idea rather than bigger, more people, more animal, more elaborate staging is better approach) where the brief overture was basically the beginning of the last act where Violetta was wandering around her empty house. Act I and II then became a flashback as Violetta was recalling her good old day.
> If nothing else, when there is somebody on stage, people tends to be more quiet and don't talk so much through the overture until the singing starts




This was in Dallas in October 1958, Callas's last performances of Violetta. No sound recording exists and I've seen very few photos from this production, but I do remember talking about it when he used the same device in his movie of *La Traviata* with Stratas and Domingo.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

SilenceIsGolden said:


> Heh, I'm reminded of seeing a production of _Lohengrin_ years ago where the action of the opera was updated to World War I and the stunning, ethereal music of the prelude was staged to depict Lohengrin in a surgeon's tent having his leg amputated. And it just so happened to be the first time I took my wife along to see an opera with me -- it was all she could do to smother her laughter, and my face was planted firmly in palm.


The thing that gets me is that it sounds like a bad idea on paper...so how did it make it to the stage?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Couac Addict said:


> The thing that gets me is that it sounds like a bad idea on paper...so how did it make it to the stage?


The sad and baffling thing is that our opera stages are filled with bad ideas. Paper is cheap. Theaters, directors and singers are not.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

katdad said:


> There's a recent trend in traditional opera (in which there's an overture) to use the "dead time" of the overture to set the stage for the opera's action, all the stagecraft of course done in pantomime. Three examples where it seemed to work okay:
> 
> In the superb Royal Opera DVD of Mozart's Marriage of Figaro (in my estimation the best video ever of Nozze), during the overture the court prepares for the upcoming wedding festivities. Valets and maids are seen cleaning, dusting, gathering things, under supervision of a majordomo and supervisor. Toward the end of the overture, Figaro appears (carrying the Count's boots) and is teased by the servant guys about his impending marriage.
> 
> ...


I rather like the Levine take with the Overture to Act III of_ Siegfried_, where Siegfried is fearlessly charging through the elements with sword in hand, myself.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I have the DVD of the ROH Nozze. The action during the overture is very well done indeed. Of course, everything depends on it being well done! But when it is as well done as this, why not?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

SilenceIsGolden said:


> Heh, I'm reminded of seeing a production of _Lohengrin_ years ago where the action of the opera was updated to World War I and the stunning, ethereal music of the prelude was staged to depict Lohengrin in a surgeon's tent having his leg amputated. And it just so happened to be the first time I took my wife along to see an opera with me -- it was all she could do to smother her laughter, and my face was planted firmly in palm.


Goodness! What lunatic directed this?


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

Couac Addict said:


> The thing that gets me is that it sounds like a bad idea on paper...so how did it make it to the stage?


If you have the credentials, the right connections (this particular director was an assistant of Achim Freyer, who was a protégé of Bertolt Brecht), and a "concept" then you're pretty much free to stage whatever you want these days.



DavidA said:


> Goodness! What lunatic directed this?


Lydia Steier.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

As many have said, I don't mind the action starting while the overture is playing, if it is apposite and not just gimmicky. That said, it does rather pre-suppose that the audience can't concentrate on music alone.

My family had always been involved in amateur musicals, and I was taken to the theatre from a very early age. I remember that even then, part of the excitement was sitting in the darkened theatre listening to the overture and waiting for the curtain to rise. When I started going to opera and ballet, I loved that anticipation just as much, and actually I still do. There are even some recordings that can reproduce this feeling of anticipation for me. The Cluytens *Faust* is one, the short prelude to the von Matacic *Die lustige Witwe* another. There are plenty of others too.

So, though I don't object to some action on stage, I'd hate to think we'd seen the last of the overture played without.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> As many have said, I don't mind the action starting while the overture is playing, if it is apposite and not just gimmicky. That said, it does rather pre-suppose that the audience can't concentrate on music alone.
> 
> My family had always been involved in amateur musicals, and I was taken to the theatre from a very early age. I remember that even then, part of the excitement was sitting in the darkened theatre listening to the overture and waiting for the curtain to rise. When I started going to opera and ballet, I loved that anticipation just as much, and actually I still do. There are even some recordings that can reproduce this feeling of anticipation for me. The Cluytens *Faust* is one, the short prelude to the von Matacic *Die lustige Witwe* another. There are plenty of others too.
> 
> So, though I don't object to some action on stage, I'd hate to think we'd seen the last of the overture played without.


Awesome.

I completely agree with how efficacious that dramatic effect can _be_, once the huge curtain goes up after the overture: whether its something light and charming like the_ Nutcracker_; or even bigger-than-life cinema like the MGM _Mutiny on the Bounty _or _El Cid_-- which I saw in 70 mm at the Cinerama Dome (now Arclight Cinemas) up in Hollwood. Both overtures are fantastic, 'apposite'-- as you'd say-- absolutely germane to the unfolding of the drama with the masterful intertwining of leitmotives.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

GregMitchell said:


> As many have said, I don't mind the action starting while the overture is playing, if it is apposite and not just gimmicky. That said, it does rather pre-suppose that the audience can't concentrate on music alone.
> 
> My family had always been involved in amateur musicals, and I was taken to the theatre from a very early age. I remember that even then, part of the excitement was sitting in the darkened theatre listening to the overture and waiting for the curtain to rise. When I started going to opera and ballet, I loved that anticipation just as much, and actually I still do. There are even some recordings that can reproduce this feeling of anticipation for me. The Cluytens *Faust* is one, the short prelude to the von Matacic *Die lustige Witwe* another. There are plenty of others too.
> 
> So, though I don't object to some action on stage, I'd hate to think we'd seen the last of the overture played without.





> ... part of the excitement was sitting in the darkened theatre listening to the overture and waiting for the curtain to rise. When I started going to opera and ballet, I loved that anticipation just as much, and actually I still do.




You put that so well. That's just how I feel!


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

DavidA said:


> I have the DVD of the ROH Nozze. The action during the overture is very well done indeed. Of course, everything depends on it being well done! But when it is as well done as this, why not?


I've seen the production live and I agree. But, it really has to be well done which is the case in this production. And the performance has to be convincing. I liked that lady mopping the floor


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> Staging the overture or prelude _can_ be an excellent way to "fill the audience in" on the storyline in operas that are basically episodic. _La Traviata_ is a perfect example, because in that a considerable amount of the action is recounted or implied rather than shown. I pretty firmly believe that the _Traviata_ preludes should both be staged, and I even have an idea for the second prelude: omitting the intermission between Acts II and III, you could have everyone freeze at the close of the ensemble at Flora's party; the prelude could begin, and in slow motion everyone could start to move. Germont could take Alfredo home; Violetta's friends could look after her; and then you could show things like Violetta receiving Germont's letter and becoming sicker and bedridden, but still reading and re-reading the letter. You could end with her lying in bed, watched by Annina, which is how Act III is supposed to open. I wonder if anyone here has seen it done like this?


Never saw it like this. But it's a good idea. I wonder if there is anything available like Flightsimulator but then for Opera ? We could stage our own productions ! Hmmm.... do we have a thread on our own ideas of opera productions ?


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Bellinilover said:


> .... and I even have an idea for the second prelude: omitting the intermission between Acts II and III, you could have everyone freeze at the close of the ensemble at Flora's party;


This intermission is ommited in the Willy Decker's production. But it's far mor abstract than what you suggest. But I think the goal is the same.

Traviata is indeed episodic and so are the preludes musically, which could also be used in staging. For example in the first prelude we hear the dying Violetta, then variations on "Amami Alfredo", it's acutally what is about to follow. But let's not forget we are doing opera and it has to work on a stage.


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## SiPuo (May 4, 2014)

I saw "Rusalka" about a month ago, and they had Prince get drunk while staring at a portrait of a woodland during the overture. It wasn't very effective and more than a little bit confusing.
Sometimes, having the audience stare at the closed curtain for 5 minutes is a good way to build up anticipation. Also, it gives the orchestra an opportunity to shine without the audience being distracted by things going on onstage.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

SiPuo said:


> I saw "Rusalka" about a month ago, and they had Prince get drunk while staring at a portrait of a woodland during the overture. It wasn't very effective and more than a little bit confusing.
> Sometimes, having the audience stare at the closed curtain for 5 minutes is a good way to build up anticipation. *Also, it gives the orchestra an opportunity to shine without the audience being distracted by things going on onstage.*


Definitely!

Welcome to the forum SiPuo. :tiphat:


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