# Composing Classical Music today



## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

This is *not* a thread about the merits or demerits of "modern music".

Neither Ingélou nor I are into modern music but we accept that if Classical Music is to live, it must grow and develop. Every so often we are pleasantly surprised by some modern piece that somebody has recommended.

So the question is what are the pressures on modern composers and what are their support structures?

We want people who know about musical history and the modern music scene to try to explain why Classical composers are not flourishing.

There are many premières but few second performances. There are specific commissions but they don't seem to lead to major works. We don't seem to have anything like the TV broadcasts around the production of Britten's _Noye's Fludde_.

There is the pull of commercial work scoring music for films and television.

Many people think they can compose using software and midi and very little training.

So why is Classical Music today not flourishing. What is holding the composers back?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

In the past, when composers relied on patrons and commissions, they were at the mercy of individuals with the power to make or break them, unjustly or not. These days - I suppose - they are at the mercy of a fickle public and those who run orchestras or plan their music. Are today's composers always having to fret about publicising themselves and their music? 

In the past, people with money wanted to show that they were cultured and to set musical fashion. Many of them could play instruments themselves.

I suppose there must be rich people today who want to show that they are cultured. How do they do it? Do they commission new works, or support an orchestra?

I have read that composers usually have to make enough money to live through teaching, and this must eat into their time and energy.

I have always been interested in the movement of history and the fashions of an age. I look forward to reading about what things are like today for modern composers. 

I myself know very little, so if I've said something up above that reveals my ignorance, I am happy to be put right. 

Looking forward to a bit of detailed discussion. :tiphat:


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

200 years ago, the people who made the laws, the people who had the money, and the people who decided what was art were basically the same group of people. High art used to be part of the "package" that the lower orders might aspire to.
That system has gradually been breaking down, though; princes have been replaced by arts grants and Kickstarter, and classical music must compete with the many more choices that its potential audience has.
But on the other hand, the potential audience for classical music is basically everyone now, which is a vast increase on the past.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> Are today's composers always having to fret about publicising themselves and their music?
> 
> [...]
> 
> I have read that composers usually have to make enough money to live through teaching, and this must eat into their time and energy.


So basically composers today are allegedly crippled by the necessity of doing... the same things as Handel, Mozart, and pretty much every great composer from Schubert on.


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

re: OP - I'm more and more convinced that the difference between today and the Good Old Days is that today people feel comfortable being pedantic about popular entertainment - as usual, the romantics started it, and then it kind of metastasized in the 1960s - so Serious Cultural Commentators can write about music without knowing s--- about contemporary classical music, as long as they know about Swans or whoever.

But the Bad New Days may in that respect already be ending anyway. Everybody seems to be getting sick of poptimism. (Granted, people who only listen to rock think THEY'RE anti-pop, but that's the way trends go. Today the head of Beyoncé, tomorrow the heads of Tame Impala and Sun Owhatever.)


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> But on the other hand, the potential audience for classical music is basically everyone now, which is a vast increase on the past.


This is absolutely true, plus we spend an ungodly amount of time listening to music (and on entertainment in general).


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Nereffid said:


> 200 years ago, the people who made the laws, the people who had the money, and the people who decided what was art were basically the same group of people.


No, the people who made art decided what was art. The people who had money either ignored them or - the pretentious ones - competed to get the best to work for them.



Nereffid said:


> But on the other hand, the potential audience for classical music is basically everyone now


Everyone who has free time. So actually not basically everyone at all.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Hildadam Bingor said:


> So basically composers today are allegedly crippled by the necessity of doing... the same things as Handel, Mozart, and pretty much every great composer from Schubert on.


Thanks. Good point. Of course, everyone who wants a good job or a commission to write music needs to be noticed & that applies in any period of history. :tiphat:

Still, things aren't quite the same - in baroque times you would have to cultivate great men and the cathedral authorities but you wouldn't have to be *media savvy* as in today's world.

Also, I am not 'alleging' that modern composers are *crippled* by today's conditions - hopefully *not*.

The thread was aiming at a general discussion of today's conditions for composing classical music; we have no axe to grind.

We were interested in what people who know about modern music have to say about the realities of being a composer today - because we care about classical music and want it not only to stay alive but to develop and flourish.

Thanks for all replies so far.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Isn't the problem with major orchestral compositions the one of getting them performed, especially outside London? The usual orchestral repertoire has become very narrow, with the big beasts of the C19-early C20, and one or two token new commissions per season. Promoters are clearly worried about getting sufficient bums on seats to cover their costs


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## Hildadam Bingor (May 7, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> Still, things aren't quite the same - in baroque times you would have to cultivate great men and the cathedral authorities but you wouldn't have to be *media savvy* as in today's world.


Well the media in question were somewhat different, but you absolutely had to be media savvy in the world of theater music - see the Handel vs. Bononcini affair.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

manyene said:


> Isn't the problem with major orchestral compositions the one of getting them performed, especially outside London? The usual orchestral repertoire has become very narrow, with the big beasts of the C19-early C20, and one or two token new commissions per season. Promoters are clearly worried about getting sufficient bums on seats to cover their costs


Very good point!

Here in deepest East Anglia, we still see some new works. The Norwich festival will put on new stuff using (essentially) students from the Royal Academy. It's not a full orchestra but it's better than nothing. We also have Aldeburgh and Snape which are willing to fund new works.

We go to see a Baroque group, typically about 12 string players and 3 or 4 continuo players. Nice size for an ensemble. They've even done Bach's Brandenberg 3 with a set of 7 which is even neater. This sort of ensemble is relatively easy to fund and ticket sales are not (quite) so vital

The thing about this sort of music is that you can also do a set for home use - violin, cello, harpsichord - and make money selling that. One of the big aspects of the "Golden Age" of Scottish Baroque was the way that composers were funded by publishing their "works" - often arrangements of folk songs. This sort of funding has gone now because so few people play because they can hear the music in other ways.

These are the sorts of thing we are trying to explore.


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Smaller compositions seem to fare better, yes; often performed over lunchtimes in smaller venues (like the Liverpool Phil's new Music Room).


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