# An opinion destined to rankle Jessye Norman fanatics and Cheryl Studer haters alike



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

_“In 1991 she [Studer] gave a concert performance of this very piece in Dresden with Sinopoli that was just outrageous – Sinopoli pushed Studer with such power and force she ended up giving a vision of Salome that was more chilling and more decadent and terrifying than any I have heard; by the end of it her voice was all but shattered. Perhaps this is exactly the kind of cruelty that Strauss expected of his Salome – but which no soprano dares to give. It is certainly not the one that Jessye Norman dares to give here. As impressive as the voice is, her vocal cords do not sound that stretched – the performance could be considered just a little safe.
Norman doesn’t fall into the Studer category in any sense, and nor give us what Strauss really intended. But what we do get is a performance of such power and virtuosity it delivers a real punch. In a sense this is not uncomplicated music; it is a straightforward narrative and Norman doesn’t make life difficult for herself. You’ll be swept away by it, but it isn’t blood-curdling, it isn’t decadent and nor is it chilling. One could imagine Studer entirely embracing the head of John the Baptist to kiss his lips; I think Norman probably recoiled at the prospect of doing so. Where Studer might almost spit her words out towards the latter half of this long monologue, Norman is more modest. Only one of these two great sopranos drips in the blood of her venom and poison.”_

Full review article here
Richard STRAUSS Jessye Norman sings Strauss, Five Songs & Salome - LPO LPO0122 [MB] Classical Music Reviews: April 2022 - MusicWeb-International


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I have only heard the studio version of Norman's Salome but this could be better as she was often better live .I am different than some here and can just bask in the sound of a voice. Jessye Norman's voice was the wrong type for Salome not sounding remotely like a pouty teen BUT I revel in the glory of her opulent voice especially when John's head is presented to her.The size and richness of her sound when she sings " Ah du woltest nicht..." is jaw dropping to this listener.She also is really really good in modern music and some of the confrontation scene with Jokananon is almost 12 tone in it's sound and she is fabulous here . Her voice is best up to A5 and there is only one B in all of the opera and it is brief. All the photos for the cover were made after her weight loss but this was the last opera she recorded before her massive weight loss and the voice was in great condition.
I have heard tell that Studer did one of the best Salome's out there and I think it would suit her perfectly. I have not heard her do it, though.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have heard tell that Studer did one of the best Salome's out there and I think it would suit her perfectly. I have not heard her do it, though.


Here is the Closing Scene.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm not a hater and not rankled, but what I hear doesn't live up to the buildup. Studer is intelligent as ever, her timbre is naturally youthful, and the clean focus of her sound ensures its audibilty, but the voice is underpowered and thin, with too many moments lacking the simple physical impact they really must have. I don't find her "outrageous," "chilling" or "terrifying" - the interpretation is fine but not especially unusual - and wonder what in particular the reviewer would cite to support his assessment. I guess there's no accounting for fanhood.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I'm not a hater and not rankled, but what I hear doesn't live up to the buildup. Studer is intelligent as ever, her timbre is naturally youthful, and the clean focus of her sound ensures its audibilty, but the voice is underpowered and thin, with too many moments lacking the simple physical impact they really must have. I don't find her "outrageous," "chilling" or "terrifying" - the interpretation is fine but not especially unusual - and wonder what in particular the reviewer would cite to support his assessment. I guess there's no accounting for fanhood.


Woodduck, I think you missed the point the reviewer made. His opinion was based on hearing Studer in a concert performance of the Closing Scene and not on the studio recording. And he gave explicit reasons why he preferred Studer over Norman in the piece despite Norman having a larger and more opulent voice. But large/opulent voice alone is not everything. And in this case the reviewer explained as much. Plush voice or not, a singer either communicates something or other or doesn’t; or something as close as possible to a composer’s intentions or far apart. This is the crux of the matter in the review. So nothing to do with fanhood.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> Woodduck, I think you missed the point the reviewer made. His opinion was based on hearing Studer in a concert performance of the Closing Scene and not on the studio recording. And he gave explicit reasons why he preferred Studer over Norman in the piece despite Norman having a larger and more opulent voice. But large/opulent voice alone is not everything. And in this case the reviewer explained as much. Plush voice or not, a singer either communicates something or other or doesn’t; or something as close as possible to a composer’s intentions or far apart. This is the crux of the matter in the review. So nothing to do with fanhood.


I'll trust that Studer's live performance was more interesting than the one you posted. Of course we can't hear it, so there's little value in just reading someone's personal reaction to it and then being offered a different performance to listen to. How could anyone be 'rankled' under the circumstances?

Agreed, a larger, fuller voice isn't everything, but it darn sure helps against a Straussian horn section! Studio recordings can create the illusion that a voice is bigger than it is, but in this case it seems that no effort was made to deceive, which is admirably honest. I get annoyed by shenanigans that result in people thinking that, say, Margaret Price is a viable Isolde, lovely though she is.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I'll trust that Studer's live performance was more interesting than the one you posted. Of course we can't hear it, so there's little value in just reading someone's personal reaction to it and then being offered a different performance to listen to. How could anyone be 'rankled' under the circumstances?
> 
> Agreed, a larger, fuller voice isn't everything, but it darn sure helps against a Straussian horn section! Studio recordings can create the illusion that a voice is bigger than it is, but in this case it seems that no effort was made to deceive, which is admirably honest. I get annoyed by shenanigans that result in people thinking that, say, Margaret Price is a viable Isolde, lovely though she is.


I should have added that Studer had a more ample top/upper extension than Norman ever had. In roles like Salome and many others, this goes far.


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ALT said:


> I should have added that Studer had a more ample top/upper extension than Norman ever had. In roles like Salome and many others, this goes far.


That's true. Norman had a limited top, which increasingly tended to go flat. I would not pick her over Studer for a fair number of soprano roles, including this one.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> That's true. Norman had a limited top, which increasingly tended to go flat. I would not pick her over Studer for a fair number of soprano roles, including this one.


I didn’t follow either soprano’s career, but I don’t think they had many roles in common. Aida, maybe, in which neither was very good. Jessy’s repertoire was offbeat, except for a few forays into the « standard » repertoire, while Studer seemed to be singing everything at a certain point. Norman also recorded some roles I wouldn’t have thought suited her.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I wish there was a simple “delete” key one could tap to get rid of an unwanted post.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

MAS said:


> I sister there was a simple “delete” key one could tap to get rid of an unwanted post.


Hi MAS, confused by your post. Are you saying you want the post deleted because it is “unwanted”? If so, what is unwanted about it? After all, it is just another opera-related post out of many that creep in all the time. The review’s author certainly challenged some facile and hardened notions by bringing Studer into the mix and daring to suggest that he prefers her Salome to that of Norman’s. Is that what bothered you?


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

Moreover, MAS, we happen to compare singers in specific pieces all the time in here. No? So if your appeal for censorship of this one post is because the name Studer is in it, make no mistake, she will be discussed openly and without fear of intimidation, just as with any other singer anyone cares to bring up for discussion anytime.


----------



## Monsalvat (11 mo ago)

I interpreted as MAS accidentally double-posting, then editing over the second post to wish that there was a delete button for one's own posts. The first post, #9, doesn't seem to hate Studer all that much, after all...


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ALT said:


> Hi MAS, confused by your post. Are you saying you want the post deleted because it is “unwanted”? If so, what is unwanted about it? After all, it is just another opera-related post out of many that creep in all the time. The review’s author certainly challenged some facile and hardened notions by bringing Studer into the mix and daring to suggest that he prefers her Salome to that of Norman’s. Is that what bothered you?


Mas would not do that. He wanted to delete his post. He is a gentleman.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ALT said:


> Hi MAS, confused by your post. Are you saying you want the post deleted because it is “unwanted”? If so, what is unwanted about it? After all, it is just another opera-related post out of many that creep in all the time. The review’s author certainly challenged some facile and hardened notions by bringing Studer into the mix and daring to suggest that he prefers her Salome to that of Norman’s. Is that what bothered you?


@ALT 
sorry, it’s got nothing to do with your posts - I wanted to get rid of my own duplicate post, but the site does not have a “delete” button.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ALT said:


> Moreover, MAS, we happen to compare singers in specific pieces all the time in here. No? So if your appeal for censorship of this one post is because the name Studer is in it, make no mistake, she will be discussed openly and without fear of intimidation, just as with any other singer anyone cares to bring up for discussion anytime.


Heavens! Didn’t suggest censorship at all! I like Studer, but not as much as you. I also like Norman without fear.😇😇
Thanks to Montsalvat and Seattleoperafan for the “defense!”


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

MAS said:


> @ALT
> sorry, it’s got nothing to do with your posts - I wanted to get rid of my own duplicate post, but the site does not have a “delete” button.


MAS, wanting to extend an apology to you. But it was easy to filter your post as asking for censorship, given the context. Glad to know it wasn’t so. No hard feelings and let’s put this behind.


----------



## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

MAS said:


> Heavens! Didn’t suggest censorship at all! I like Studer, but not as much as you. I also like Norman without fear.😇😇
> Thanks to Montsalvat and Seattleoperafan for the “defense!”


😌


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ALT said:


> MAS, wanting to extend an apology to you. But it was easy to filter your post as asking for censorship, given the context. Glad to know it wasn’t so. No hard feelings and let’s put this behind.


ALT, no apology necessary, it was a misunderstanding- we’re all passionate about our favorites.


----------

