# I am taking the incremental step into the Classical domain...



## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

The Baroque era and its pastiches have exhausted my emotional spectrum insofar that the hitherto benign propensity for discovery has catalysed an inertial modicum within the recesses of my conciousness into something insatiable. The years subsequent to 1751 are not within my understanding. What music comes from such time? For this reason alone I must tread very carefully for my musical interest may be damaged irreparably should any corrupt sonorities manifest themselves in ways that are displeasing to my senses. I therefore ask for your assistance in recommending me music from composers outside of this zeitgeist realm; from times beyond my time. I hear such sobriquets as Mozart. Beethoven. Wagner. List. These future men and their ostentatious offerings will provide change to my musicianship however anachronistic.

My toe is hovering above the water. I do not want to take a dive into hot or cold water of the Classical and Romantic seas without first tasting some of the delicacies it has to offer.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Um, what was that again?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Try some Mannheim school composers, you might like em.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

By all means check out the Classical era composers, then when you are ready the Romantic era composers, but contrary to what some believe those eras don't offer more musical diversity (or less "pastiche" effect) than the Baroque era. The 20th century and later periods in classical music offer the most spice, variety and diversity.

As far as the Classical era goes, I would say the piano concertos and operas of Mozart and the symphonies and string quartets of Haydn, are some of the most important areas to explore and will give you a good idea of what that era of music was like (at its best).


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Definitely try out Joseph Haydn - listen to his Fifths quartet - Op. 76 No. 2 in D minor - you get a strong link with the baroque period, a classical structure and the more experimental nature of romantic works. But also don't forget about his brother, Michael Haydn, who also wrote excellent works like symphony no. 29 in D minor and the Requiem in C minor.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2013)

> My toe is hovering above the water. I do not want to take a dive into hot or cold water of the Classical and Romantic seas without first tasting some of the delicacies it has to offer.


Well, if you're planning to go swimming, I wouldn't recommend that you sip the water first. Just plunge in.

Of course, if getting wet is your worry, I'd suggest you stay on dry land and answer the question that was asked of you in the last thread you started.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

tdc said:


> By all means check out the Classical era composers, then when you are ready the Romantic era composers, but contrary to what some believe those eras don't offer more musical diversity (or less "pastiche" effect) than the Baroque era. The 20th century and later periods in classical music offer the most spice, variety and diversity.
> 
> As far as the Classical era goes, I would say the piano concertos and operas of Mozart and the symphonies and string quartets of Haydn, are some of the most important areas to explore and will give you a good idea of what that era of music was like (at its best).


Good advice. Mozart's works are the most varied - pieces he wrote when he was a child prodigy, right up to his very best mature works. The former should give you an idea of the early Classical galant idiom, while the latter are just pure works of genius and in a few cases, foreshadowing early Romanticism (if only he lived another decade or two, music history would change dramatically).


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I should add I didn't mention Beethoven and Schubert in my post of who I consider to be the more important Classical era composers because I consider them as being closer to Romanticism, but those are kind of "grey area" composers.


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

You could ooze into the classical era (if your sensibilities allow using such an indelicate word), by trying the French "gallante" composers -- Rameau, the Couperins. I can guarantee they won't cause any indigestion.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

One must be cautious of the classic era's seeming wanton abandonment of good and proper counterpoint. So might I recommend a bit of Joseph Martin Kraus who often still embraced counterpoint while looking forward toward the romantic as well? But do proceed with extreme caution as there are unseemly abrupt dynamic changes that could alarm those of a sensitive and discerning nature.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Vivaldi said:


> The Baroque era and its pastiches have exhausted my emotional spectrum insofar that the hitherto benign propensity for discovery has catalysed an inertial modicum within the recesses of my conciousness into something insatiable. The years subsequent to 1751 are not within my understanding. What music comes from such time? For this reason alone I must tread very carefully for my musical interest may be damaged irreparably should any corrupt sonorities manifest themselves in ways that are displeasing to my senses. I therefore ask for your assistance in recommending me music from composers outside of this zeitgeist realm; from times beyond my time. I hear such sobriquets as Mozart. Beethoven. Wagner. List. These future men and their ostentatious offerings will provide change to my musicianship however anachronistic.
> 
> My toe is hovering above the water. I do not want to take a dive into hot or cold water of the Classical and Romantic seas without first tasting some of the delicacies it has to offer.


Just remember to get the post office to redirect your mail from the Zeitgeist.


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## JohannesBrahms (Apr 22, 2013)

Uh.............Say what?


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Vivaldi said:


> The Baroque era and its pastiches have exhausted my emotional spectrum insofar that the hitherto benign propensity for discovery has catalysed an inertial modicum within the recesses of my conciousness into something insatiable.


The post-modern sounding way in which you write exhausts my intellectual spectrum insofar as I cannot make head or tails of what you are on about...


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

My sympathies with your sad state, sir. As one of our sages remarked: "Why, Sir, you find no man, at all intellectual, who is willing to leave the Baroque. No, Sir, when a man is tired of the Baroque, he is tired of life; for there is in the Baroque all that life can afford."

You may wish to try some earlier music - Tallis, Byrd Dowland, Palestrina. Alternately, if you like M. Rebel, you may try the works of Herr Hadyn, particularly his Creation. if you like Herr Mozart (although his later life falls outside your chosen period), particularly his fine Trumpet Concerto, you may wish to approach the works of his son Wolfgang whi is understood to have written a number of fine pieces in a classical style.

I find the 19th century somewhat barren. M. Chopin's rather fiery Mazurkas may please as may M. Bizet's L'Arlésienne suite using a tune of M. Lully (Marche de Turenne). The second movement in minuet form may also be acceptable. In general, I listen mainly to folk oriented composers of the 20th century - Mr Holst with his St Paul suite using that fine dance tune Dargason from Mr Playford's excellent manual, which he also used in his Second Suite in F for Military Band - containing a morisque, some folk tunes and a fantasia on Dargason. Mr Vaughan Williams has also written some fine music of this type - Norfolk Rhapsody and Five Variants of Dives and Lazarus and also a Famtasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis.

I trust that you will soon recover from this disorder of the spirit as another of our sages remarked:

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

A deep draught of Baroque will doubtless revive the soul.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Ah, just listen to some Xenakis and STFU.

:devil:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

brianvds said:


> The post-modern sounding way in which you write exhausts my intellectual spectrum insofar as I cannot make head or tails of what you are on about...


It is not postmodern, it is downright Baroque.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Good thing for you there is an ocean of fine Baroque music from many composers: you've barely scratched the surface there, no matter what you think you've 'done' with Vivaldi -- who, btw, is not Signor Counterpoint by any means, so your seeming fear of leaving that element out has already been confronted with the wholesale consumption of all of Vivaldi.

But all you have to do to look for something a little beyond baroque is look at the time line of musicians in the large Wikipedia article on classical music, and check out a few whose dates near overlap the dates of your non-contrapuntal hero, then nose around Youtube for some of that music.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Try some Boccherini, JC Bach, Carl Stamitz, Dittersdorf, Hummel, Arne, Clementi, CPE Bach, and of course Haydn and Mozart. Those would be treading the waters of the Classical Era with some connection to the Baroque.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Such an ever so delicate sensibility.... Good thing for you there is an ocean of fine Baroque music from many composers: you've barely scratched the surface there, no matter what you think you've 'done'


I became properly ashamed of my own ignorance of baroque music as a result of reading bejart's posts in the "Current Listening" thread. But it's nice to know there are unheard delights awaiting me in the future!


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

I was going to recommend you listen to the 'music' of a Mr. LaMonte Young, from the New World, particularly his 'The First Dream of The High-Tension Line Stepdown Transformer', introduced to me recently by a young friend.

This may persuade you that, after all, the Baroque era has not exhausted your emotional spectrum so that you may return in relief to its delights.

I am, Sir, yours etc. etc.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Go straight to Nono.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Vaneyes said:


> Go straight to Nono.


Or Schnittke's Concerto Grosso no. 1. A mix of Barouque with Modern Classical. But I know you were joking.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

TurnaboutVox said:


> I was going to recommend you listen to the 'music' of a Mr. LaMonte Young, from the New World, particularly his 'The First Dream of The High-Tension Line Stepdown Transformer', introduced to me recently by a young friend.
> 
> This may persuade you that, after all, the Baroque era has not exhausted your emotional spectrum so that you may return in relief to its delights.
> 
> I am, Sir, yours etc. etc.


I haven't "plummeted" even a tenth of it, I bet, and there are plenty of beautiful pieces by many composers, just from that period.

But why not survey all of Monteverdi, Jean-Philippe Rameau, and the hosts of others? That is really enough, and enough available in recordings, to last a being for some years right there


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vaneyes said:


> Go straight to Nono.


And Nono pass go, Nono collect $200 

He could go straight to much of the music of the first half of the 20th century, too, if hungry for counterpoint, since there such a huge insurgence of its practice in much of that period's rep, and the neoclassical, which should more rightly be called the neobaroque ~ of course only if any of that is not so brutal as to bruise such delicate tissues 

Stravinsky ~ Concerto in Eb, Dumbarton Oaks (modeled after the Bach Brandenburgs)


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> And do not pass go, do not collect $200
> 
> He could go straight to much of the music of the first half of the 20th century, too, if hungry for counterpoint, since there such a huge insurgence of its practice in much of that period's rep, and the neoclassical, which should more rightly be called the neobaroque ~ of course only if any of that is not so brutal as to bruise such delicate tissues


Just my feeling. But I think most Vivaldi fans would prefer the galante. Though they like Bach, not necessarily for his counterpoint. But melodic structure of that time period. I think Telemann would be a great choice for Vivaldi fans as well. And to me, the galante is a continuation of Vivaldi in some sense. Upbeat music with lots of harpsichord and strings. Though it eventually switched to something totally different. Starting with late Mozart and ending with Schubert. The Classical Era offers the most imo to all other Eras to those that like Vivaldi.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

PetrB said:


> It is not postmodern, it is downright Baroque.


More rococo to me! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

i would try some uematsu first


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## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Start with Stockhausen and work your way backwards... :tiphat:


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## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

Rich prose, Vivaldi, well, for a non-native English speaker that is. 
I'm with McLeod: just jump in, you already know how to swim !

Cheers,
Jos


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