# Arias & Recitatives -- the Wagner Way?



## GrosseFugue (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi, I'm still new to the ins and outs of Wagner (perhaps we're _all_ tyros in the face of this Giant?), and my understanding is that one of Wagner's big innovations was to blur the line between Arias and Recitatives?

And that's why singers often seem to weave in and out of Arias and Recitatives? You get that signature Wagner sound of "talky-singing." No more "Bel Canto." Which some people hate about Wagner.

But what exactly is wrong with having Arias and Recitatives? Or maybe I should put the question another way: *What is the ADVANTAGE of getting rid of them (or blending them)?*

For that matter, I've always wondered why so few operas ever let singers TALK. I mean like in a play. Like in Beethoven's Fidelio there are several moments between Arias where characters simply (gasp!) SPEAK to each other. It's not even Recitative. Just regular, normal SPEECH. It seems to me to be the most economical way to further the plot, as well as being a way for the singers (AND the audience) to catch their breaths.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Wagner's equivalent of recitatives is the narratives. But the narratives with just words and no music wouldn't be as revealing. The leitmotifs are worked through the narratives to comment on the comments so to speak. They reveal the points of view of the individual characters and their inner minds. Wagner didn't want to stop to put across the exposition. He wanted to be able to use every level at his disposal at the same time.


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## nefigah (Aug 23, 2008)

I agree with bigshot's explanation–especially in the Ring, where the line is generally pretty blurry, it's important not to forget that the orchestra is also a character!

To your other point, I'm not really sure of the answer, other than it's a more stylistic choice of the genre. You are right that there are a few operas that include plain talking, but in general that's more of a trait of musicals. One interesting thing I noticed is, if used sparingly, a jarring transition to speech can really change the mood/highlight something. This occurs at the end of the La Boheme film I have: it's all recit + arias the whole opera, until Mimi dies and then there is suddenly a bit of spoken dialog. (I'm not sure if Puccini wrote that or if it was the director's choice, as it's the only version of the opera I've seen thus far.)


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Arias & Recitatives -- the Wagner Way?

Is there another way??

:devil:


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## GrosseFugue (Nov 30, 2011)

bigshot said:


> Wagner's equivalent of recitatives is the narratives. But the narratives with just words and no music wouldn't be as revealing. The leitmotifs are worked through the narratives to comment on the comments so to speak. They reveal the points of view of the individual characters and their inner minds. Wagner didn't want to stop to put across the exposition. He wanted to be able to use every level at his disposal at the same time.


Right, of course. He's throwing everything at you. It's like he wants to OVERWHELM you. Sometimes, I'll listen to some Baroque for a chaser after prolonged Wagner. And, wow, every thing else sounds like easy listening in comparison!  The recitatives in a Handel opera become like gentle birdsongs or pretty ringtones. No crushing Schopenhaurian struggles to wrestle with.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

I think the use of spoken dialogue instead of recitatives was characteristic of late 18th century/early-mid 19th century German language operas (the so-called Singspiel). In addition to _Fidelio_, dialogue is also present in Mozart's _Die Zauberflöte _and _Die Entführung aus dem Serail_, as well as Weber's _Der Freischütz _and _Oberon _(though the latter's original language is English). In contrast, Mozart's Italian-language operas all use recitatives. To me, they're simply different conventions.
(Full disclosure: I'm not bothered by the use of dialogue in place of recitatives in the DVD of Zürich Opera's production of _La_ _Clemenza di Tito _-- though that probably has something to do with Jonas Kaufmann singing the title role. )


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

His idea was to unify all the arts into a seamless blend of drama, music, and poetry; he called this "Gesamtkunstwerk", literally "Total Work of Art". 

The ideal was something resembling a sung classical greek drama where it's impossible to pick out the typical opera conventions like arias, duets, choruses, etc... all frivolous spectacle in Wagner's mind that obscures the clear communication of the drama. Through this he hoped to redeem the form from the degenerate "sing and dance" showtune operas being written at the time, with their superficial arias that use recitatives as a crutch to do all the actual plot advancement.

He realizes this best in the first of the four Ring operas, "Das Rheingold" which is by far the most "talky" of his operas with fluid play-like conversational exchanges between the characters. 

In his future operas however he relaxes his ideas and begins writing more conventionally operatically. Die Walküre's vocal lines are much more ariatic. Siegfried has a massive duet. By Götterdämmerung he's almost fully back in the realm of opera, with arias, duet, and a chorus.


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## Sator (Jan 23, 2011)

Wagner would have probably have said that in Shakespeare you don't get arias and recitatives so why should he have them.

As for the whole relationship between speech and music, that is a much more complex issue than you think. Some anthropologists have even speculated that language evolved out of singing. When you hear a computer read text, one of the things you notice is the loss of the musicality of the rising and falling intonation. The whole concept of Sprechgesang is just another exploration of this.

Schoenberg pointed out that Mozart's so-called recitatives were often very musically interesting and innovative. Take a listen, for example, to the opening of _le Nozze di Figaro_ at the series of exchanges (duets/arias/recitative) between Figaro and Suzanna. Mozart too blurs the distinction between speech and singing e.g. "cinque...dieci...venti". Even within the arias there are speech-like elements placed deliberately in there for dramatic effect. Mozart masterfully exploits the musicality of the Italian language.

Harnoncourt suggests in his writings that you should listen to an Italian lawyer deliver their final concluding speech in court. He says that it will make you realise that opera could only ever have been born in Italy. Even the birth of opera, in Monteverdi's time, was a result of a (fortunate - for us) misconception that in the Classical Greek world dramas were sung to a minimalistic music accompaniment (monody), and an extension onto the stage of the madrigal. Listen to Monteverdi's _il Combatimento di Tancredi e Clorinda_ - there is no really sharp demarcation between "aria"/"recitative" there either.

So opera was born out a desired to recreate the classical world of Greek drama. In that sense Wagner is very true to the origin concept of opera.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

The main difference between Wagner and Mozart,Handel and their contemporaries is that his stage works are "Through Composed ". The action is continuous , as well as the music.
Your typical Handel or Mozart opera is a collection of discrete arias, duets, or ensembles separated by recitatives . You can easily extract any individual aria from them and perform them separately , unlike Wagner , where the action is continuous and the orchestra is always there, unlike the recitatives, where only the harpsichord and continuo instruments are playing . 
What are called arias in conventional opera are more like monologues or sililoquies 
in plays with Wagner .


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## AmericanGesamtkunstwerk (May 9, 2011)

Wagner's is just better. He knew there were flaws with the aria-recitatives system that it prevents the composer-dramatist-poet from finding an absolute success with dramatic truth. he developed his way to perfect the idea of "music theater" and that's just all there is.

_can you tell i'm the typical insufferable wagnerite who doesn't think anyone else is worth the time of day_ he's really the only composer-dramatist anyone needs to listen to. ever.


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