# Finding the beautiful and the profound in the irregular



## HCE (Jul 27, 2018)

What appeals to you about music that is atonal or irregular? Do you appreciate it for what it is, do you like the intensity or anxiety or what have you l of it, or do you find true beauty in it, as people do in other works? I guess what I'm asking is if you listen to different music for the same reasons as others, or for other reasons, which draws you to it.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

HCE said:


> What appeals to you about music that is atonal or irregular? Do you appreciate it for what it is, do you like the intensity or anxiety or what have you l of it, or do you find true beauty in it, as people do in other works? I guess what I'm asking is if you listen to different music for the same reasons as others, or for other reasons, which draws you to it.


I appreciate some works for some or all of the same reasons such as the prettiness of the melody, and others I appreciate for all different reasons.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

I think that everyone interprets music differently, as long as they're not just anticipating to interpret it in the most common way. For example, some/most "regular" music that most people find beautiful and profound just bores me. For the most part I don't enjoy intensity in any type of classical music. Intensity in "normal" classical music is (usually) my least favorite thing possible in music. I personally find dissonance to be much more beautiful than consonance. My favorite type of tonality is very heavy chromaticism, but I prefer pure atonal music to tonal music, not just in an intellectual way. I'm drawn to music that doesn't follow "the rules" and expresses new ideas.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

This is hard to explain. As a rule I prefer music that is tonal, tuneful, beautiful and emotionally satisfying. The great symphonies from Beethoven to Mahler, for example. But from time to time I put on any of the symphonies of Humphrey Searle or Robert Simpson. Easy listening they ain't. But there is something very mesmerizing and eerily beautiful in them. Some of the music of Silvestrov, too, like his 5th symphony. Others will listen and hear nothing but random noise, ugly "harmony". Sometimes it's exactly what my mind and soul need. Big romantic symphonies are too instrusive. A few weeks ago I was camping; looking up at the stars, a nice merlot nearby, the quiet of the forest and Searle's 3rd symphony playing - perfect! It's hard to believe anyone would write music that is intentionally repulsive or unlistenable, and I don't Searle's are. If you open your mind and really listen, he's saying things - dark things, maybe, but his musical language is quite potent once you get into it. I love Wozzeck, Lulu and other Berg works, too. There are some atonalists that didn't have a heart; their music turns me off. Elliot Carter, Milton Babbitt, Rene Leibowitz, Stockhausen, Nono...no thanks!


And...it could be my early and lifelong fascination with horror movies. Searle score The Haunting (the original) and it's a perfect fit for that film.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> There are some atonalists that didn't have a heart


I would accept/agree with everything you said if not for this sentence. You may not like those composers, but I've listened to Babbitt, Stockhausen, and Nono and I love their music and don't find it heartless.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Fredx2098 said:


> I would accept/agree with everything you said if not for this sentence. You may not like those composers, but I've listened to Babbitt, Stockhausen, and Nono and I love their music and don't find it heartless.


I have a CD of Schoenberg piano works that I really love and find beautiful, and I'm not huge on atonal stuff, but I'm not against anything. To be honest, I haven't explored atonal, serialist works enough either.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I have a CD of Schoenberg piano works that I really love and find beautiful, and I'm not huge on atonal stuff, but I'm not against anything. To be honest, I haven't explored atonal, serialist works enough either.


Have you heard Schoenberg's first string quartet which is tonal? It's a good bit of proof that he didn't just compose atonal music because he "can't compose real music". I think he admired Beethoven because I have a book written by him about music composition, and it's full of references to his music. The scores of all Beethoven's piano sonatas are a required supplement to the book.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Fredx2098 said:


> Have you heard Schoenberg's first string quartet which is tonal? It's a good bit of proof that he didn't just compose atonal music because he "can't compose real music". I think he admired Beethoven because I have a book written by him about music composition, and it's full of references to his music. The scores of all Beethoven's piano sonatas are a required supplement to the book.


I haven't, if you post a preferred version from youtube in this thread, I'll be sure to take a listen at some point tonight.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I haven't, if you post a preferred version from youtube in this thread, I'll be sure to take a listen at some point tonight.


Here's a nice recording along with the score: 




I love how complex it is for a string quartet. There's a very wide range of emotions expressed. It sort of just keeps getting better as it goes along I think. A lot of it is pretty intense, but the ending is very soft and mellow which is a cool contrast.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

You're right - there are people who enjoy their music; I don't. Sometimes I feel that they're doing math more than trying to be expressive. Even as a mathematician I find their music sterile. But I like Boulez, who isn't all that different. Go figure.


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## Fredx2098 (Jun 24, 2018)

mbhaub said:


> You're right - there are people who enjoy their music; I don't. Sometimes I feel that they're doing math more than trying to be expressive. Even as a mathematician I find their music sterile. But I like Boulez, who isn't all that different. Go figure.


I think this work by Babbitt for clarinet and string quartet is extremely beautiful if you want to give him another shot:


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

The more I dislike a piece of music, the more I enjoy it.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Fredx2098 said:


> I think this work by Babbitt for clarinet and string quartet is extremely beautiful if you want to give him another shot:


This Babbitt work is easier for me to listen to. But in the end, it is not that different from a lot of other atonal music.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Fredx2098 said:


> Here's a nice recording along with the score:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I sampled it and liked what I heard, great stuff!


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2018)

I listen to music because of the way it sounds..................................


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I listened to Theseus Game (Birtwistle) yesterday evening. It is music I have listened to maybe less than ten times in my life. The actual music is fairly contemporary but it seems like old music, just with different notes. This is a work that has a number of passages that are effectively solos (with accompaniment), including memorably for flute and for trumpet: long winding melodic passages. One thing that struck me, though, was the "tone" adopted by the soloists. I didn't have a term for how they were phrasing and sounding. It wasn't warm (or cold) or emotional or rhapsodic or angry or exciting .... it didn't fit any of the words I habitually use to describe music (to myself). It was like Birtwistle is portraying a different, new feeling. But probably these words I use are just metaphors that I use to explain to myself what is happening in the music - and in time I will find a word for these solos. Right now, though, the strangeness of it, and even my inability to grasp (or reduce?) it, is what fascinates and is making me want to listen again today.


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