# First Round: Salome Final Scene: Lawrence and Behrens



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Everyone can read this. Nothing given away. Four vocal only Salome's. All seldom in contests except for Nilsson. Then separate contest of two movie Salomes.




Marjorie Lawrence Salome Final Scene Start 3:32




Start 15:30
Herbert von Karajan, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Agnes Baltsa, Hildegard Behrens, José van Dam, Karl-Walter Böhm


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I HIGHLY recommend you watch this very campy 1940's send up of Salome. It is PRICELESS!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

They are both really wonderful with soaring, beautiful voices. I give the edge to Behrens because she sounded so spooky and I love the very personal sound she has that is unmistakable. She sounded better here than I ever heard her.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I really like Marjorie Lawrence and she's in great voice here, but then I've always thought this Karajan recording of *Salome *was Behrens' finest hour and she is really superb here. She sounds as if she has really just made love to Jokanaan's head; gorgeous and disgusting at the same time. It no doubt helps she has Karajan and the Vienna Philharmonic supporting her. Behrens takes this one.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Both voices sound fairly well suited for the role. Lawrence has a stronger voice, but doesn't sound out of character as the young princess. Unfortunately the sound isn't great and she sounds a little less involved than Behrens. Behrens voice is a little lighter and could do with a bit of extra ring to the sound for me to think her perfectly suited to the role but she is very good and with the superior sonics and added investment I'll choose her.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I really like Marjorie Lawrence and she's in great voice here, but then I've always thought this Karajan recording of *Salome *was Behrens' finest hour and she is really superb here. She sounds as if she has really just made love to Jokanaan's head; gorgeous and disgusting at the same time. It no doubt she has Karajan and the Vienna Philharmonic supporting her. Behrens takes this one.


You suggested her and she was amazing! Thank you! I came to love Behrens late but really enjoy her now, but never has she sounded better. I have her in an Elettra in Idomeneo contest. You would never think of her as being good in Mozart but I thought she was great!!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Easily Behrens. Lawrence goes slightly flat on her top notes. Behrens is bang on. I agree that this was one of her great performances.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I HIGHLY recommend you watch this very campy 1940's send up of Salome. It is PRICELESS!


Absolutely superb. Very witty and complex song with Miss O’Brien in excellent form. I must admit ‘40s musicals are one of my guilty pleasures. 😎


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Absolutely superb. Very witty and complex song with Miss O’Brien in excellent form. I must admit ‘40s musicals are one of my guilty pleasures. 😎


No one today would even know who Salome was. I'm glad you enjoyed it. So clever!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Everyone can read this. Nothing given away. Four vocal only Salome's. All seldom in contests except for Nilsson. Then separate contest of two movie Salomes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marjorie Lawrence was wonderful. I immediately wondered, if this can be ever beaten. She sings in French, but I don't know the opera and don't miss German. In fact, French makes me feel more like at home, because it resembles Samson et Dalila. Does Strauss use the "augmented seconds" for Salome like Saint Saens does in some places of Samson and Dalila ? The initial orchestration for the aria had that "Arabic" feel like Bacchanale.

Hildegard Behrens was probably great too, but I had a problem hearing her properly. She was either recorded from bad angle or she could not overpower that orchestration. Her voice was more feminine than girly, the same situation as we had in Lawrence vs. Farrell for the Herodiade contest.

I am happy to vote for Lawrence.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Hildegard Behrens was probably great too, but I had a problem hearing her properly. She was either recorded from bad angle of she could not overpower that orchestration. Her voice was more feminine than girly, the same situation as we had in Lawrence vs. Farrell for the Herodiade contest.
> 
> I am happy to vote for Lawrence.


If you listen to the entire video which is from a commercial recording (the link starts it 3/4 way through) you will hear that she has ample voice, it is just that this section doesn't call for it.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> Absolutely superb. Very witty and complex song with Miss O’Brien in excellent form. I must admit ‘40s musicals are one of my guilty pleasures. 😎


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Behrens is singing in her native language so she immediately has an advantage over Lawrence, who isn’t singing it in her own language, but in French. I like Behrens’s voice less than that of Lawrence and even though it’s in the wrong language, I will choose Lawrence’s recording.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

It's simple. The voice that enticed me the most was Lawrence.

Hey! I came back to this a week later and listened once again and was astounded at my vote. Behrens voice to me had a much more enticing sound of wonderment. I think what threw me off voting for her the first time was the lack of sound of the recording.
Am I permitted to change my vote?
(I'll take my chances)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> Behrens is singing in her native language so she immediately has an advantage over Lawrence, who isn’t singing it in her own language, but in French. I like Behrens’s voice less than that of Lawrence and even though it’s in the wrong language, I will choose Lawrence’s recording.


I would just point out that Lawrence was based in Paris for quite a large part of her career and that most of her Wagner recordings are also in French. Apparently she spoke the language like a native.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I would just point out that Lawrence was based in Paris for quite a large part of her career and that most of her Wagner recordings are also in French. Apparently she spoke the language like a native.


Her training was mostly there, and she certainly "lived among native speakers". Her autobiography, _Interrupted Melody_ (as opposed to the film "based on" it), is quite the read on this part of her life.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Behrens is so recessed and sings so softly that she makes little impression. I see no value in whispering this music. Lawrence is a better singer anyway, and the piece sounds fine in French.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Behrens is so recessed and sings so softly that she makes little impression. I see no value in whispering this music. Lawrence is a better singer anyway, and the piece sounds fine in French.


This is the thing. I don't know the opera, don't know how it is usually performed. And obviously don't know the markings, like piano vs forte, in the score. (I have to be really extremely insanely interested in an opera to look up the score.) I just find it weird, that Behrens should sing about kissing those dead lips, and sing exactly this part so quietly, against a powerful orchestration. If the background music was minimal, like e.g. sometimes in Bellini, I might praise her for the decision.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> This is the thing. I don't know the opera, don't know how it is usually performed. And obviously don't know the markings, like piano vs forte, in the score. (I have to be really extremely insanely interested in an opera to look up the score.) I just find it weird, that Behrens should sing about kissing those dead lips, and sing exactly this part so quietly, against a powerful orchestration. If the background music was minimal, like e.g. sometimes in Bellini, I might praise her for the decision.


You listen more closely than me usually but I listened to it again and at the parts where she sings so softly there has just been a deep chord but then just a fluttering of soft strings so that if the voice was projected well she could have been heard. She is likely lying on her stomach and facing the head and the dead lips she just kissed and is whispering as to a lover. I found it quite powerful, almost as much as what Welitsch does, and was very spooky. I also disagree with another poster who found Behren's climaxes underpowered. I have never heard her sound this good and her voice rang out thrillingly to this listener. We all hear things differently so I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I had a different reaction.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You listen more closely than me usually but I listened to it again and at the parts where she sings so softly there has just been a deep chord but then just a fluttering of soft strings so that if the voice was projected well she could have been heard. She is likely lying on her stomach and facing the head and the dead lips she just kissed and is whispering as to a lover. I found it quite powerful, almost as much as what Welitsch does, and was very spooky. I also disagree with another poster who found Behren's climaxes underpowered. I have never heard her sound this good and her voice rang out thrillingly to this listener. We all hear things differently so I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I had a different reaction.


Her tone is fairly soft grained but I don’t think she sings the climax too quietly either. It may be more to do with the forwardly placed orchestra. It’s certainly not a dramatic voice like Nilsson’s and lacks a bit of ring but I don’t think it’s unsuited to this music even if ultimately I prefer Welitsch and Cebotari, again not the heaviest of voices.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Behrens is so recessed and sings so softly that she makes little impression. I see no value in whispering this music. Lawrence is a better singer anyway, and the piece sounds fine in French.


I remember the headline on Von Karajan’s recording review: “*Salome *dons a sonic veil” which was a complaint against HvK’s tinkering with the recorded sound.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

It was not an easy choice, especially after Virginia O'Brien's vídeo had been added. (She presents the plot and the spirit of the opera amazingly close to Woodduck's post about it in one of Strauss threads). Both ladies could take part in a beauty contest among opera stars. Lawrence sang in French, but it didn't disturb me, as well as lack of Herod's hysterical shout in the end. But there is something in Behrens's voice and I can't forget her picture probably from this production, seen in one exhibition, running through the scene with a heap of veils.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Many people have commented about the sound in the Behrens/Karajan recording, but I think this must partly be the transfer here. I have this recording on CD and used to have it on LP and I've never experienced any problems with weird balances or too large a dynamic as in some of Karajan's recordings. In fact, although it was an EMI recording, the booklet in my copy "gratefully acknowedges the co-operation of the Decca Record Company Ltd in making facilities available for the production of this stereo recording," which was recorded in the Sofiensaal in Vienna. Admittedly the voices are sometimes a little recessed, but nowhere am I aware of the kind of knob twiddling that seems to have gone on in Karajan's Berlin recordings of *Don Carlo *and *Tristan und Isolde*.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I would have thought that Salome in French wouldn't be able to compete with anybody. However, Lawrence is spell-binding here and her earthy connection to both text and music are exactly why she is one of my favourite Brunhildes. She also has the bloom and soar at the top to make this glorious in a way that few other singers in Strauss manage. (Other Strauss sopranos with soaring voices are Schwarzkopf and Studer.)

Behrens is a superb Salome, so this could be a tough contest. I really like the Karajan set and along with the Sinopoli, it's my favourite of the opera. This is totally different to the Lawrence take. So hushed until the very end! Her voice soars wonderfully too.

They are so different it's hard to choose. My one criticism of Behrens is that there were only two dynamic levels used and that Lawrence was more varied in her expression. Lawrence wins.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I would have thought that Salome in French wouldn't be able to compete with anybody. However, Lawrence is spell-binding here and her earthy connection to both text and music are exactly why she is one of my favourite Brunhildes. She also has the bloom and soar at the top to make this glorious in a way that few other singers in Strauss manage. (Other Strauss sopranos with soaring voices are Schwarzkopf and Studer.)
> 
> Behrens is a superb Salome, so this could be a tough contest. I really like the Karajan set and along with the Sinopoli, it's my favourite of the opera. This is totally different to the Lawrence take. So hushed until the very end! Her voice soars wonderfully too.
> 
> ...


I love the singling out of soaring voices. I am a fan of A. Marc in this piece and I have heard her live and it is the only voice I heard live that really soared as you speak. It is a powerful effect. I actually heard Studer live in Faust here ages ago but I didn't know as much about voices in my 30's. I do at least remember I really enjoyed her singing.


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