# Becoming "aware" of the ends of words in German opera



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Do you ever become "aware" of the harsh endings of a lot of german words while listening and then that's all you hear and you can't focus on anything else?

And if you don't maybe YOU WILL NOW! :devil: (sorry)


----------



## CountessAdele (Aug 25, 2011)

Hmm, I've always been aware of them but they never bothered me, in fact personally I feel like german is very satisfying to speak, because of those strong sounds. I don't know any german really but it's the first language I'll be learning in the coming years! But the preferance of language is always interesting to me. Just watch any old interview with an elite opera singer you're bound to find one where they mention which language is their favorite or least favorite and why. I've also heard certain languages described certain ways again and again, like german is percussive, french is very fluid, or itailan is very rythmic etc. Ahem, but I digress.


----------



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

I don't notice that, but I do notice something equally annoying more often than I'd like.

Especially with German (as opposed to romance languages), but also with certain sounds in Eastern European languages, there are a fair number of words that sound identical or similar to English words, but which have completely different meanings. All I can think of when I hear them is the English definition, and it completely spoils the music for me!


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't think I've ever noticed the hard plosive consonants in German so much as when I saw Bryn Terfel's Wotan in the Met _Walkure_. Not being a native German speaker, he went out of his way to make his diction exemplary--almost to excess. But I had to give him credit . . . there was nothing sloppy about the effort!


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

German is not necessarily a harsh sounding language. However, in Wagner, there are passages which are quite declamatory rather than lyrical , such as with the nasty but pathetic dwarf Alberich, who does a lot a snarling declamation spewing his rage,venom and hatred. The German language CAN sound harsh in this case, but it's entirely appropriate to the character. 
German as spoken and sung by Austrians tends to me much softer and lilting than the German you hear in Germany , and the language can sound quite beautiful in lyrical passages in Wagner and other German opera composers.


----------



## AnaMendoza (Jul 29, 2011)

I noticed it back when I was a teenager, listening to my first Wagner, and I thought it was fun. It was the first German I'd ever heard, and I enjoyed hearing all those consonants come out at the end of the words.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

I think German is a beautiful language for opera. As a matter of fact the language I have the most trouble with in opera is English. Not that there aren't good melodious English-language operas (e.g., Purcell's) but somehow I don't like opera in English as much as in German, Italian, or French. I'm unsure about Russian and Czech.


----------



## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

German can be harsh-sounding language, but I've never noticed word endings as being any harsher than other parts of the word. In fact, I always thought the beginnings of words in German were harsher. _Walküre_, for example. The 'r' in the back of the throat always seems to soften the syllable for me. "-ung," "-en," "-er," and "-agt" are all very common German word endings, but none of them have really sounded particularly harsh to me. Maybe I'm just used to the sounds after taking four years of (mostly useless) high school German.


----------



## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

amfortas said:


> I don't think I've ever noticed the hard plosive consonants in German so much as when I saw Bryn Terfel's Wotan in the Met _Walkure_. Not being a native German speaker, he went out of his way to make his diction exemplary--almost to excess. But I had to give him credit . . . there was nothing sloppy about the effort!


My dear Amfortas "die Wunde!" (sorry I can never think of your name without attaching that to it :devil I had exactly the opposite response to Terfel's Wotan (especially poor man since I was comparing him to native speaker Herr Kaufmann). Every time Terfel had a word ending in "CH" it sounded like he was going to cough up a lugie on stage. It drove me crazy! Bryn, please just listen to Jonas. Just "let the CH happen" at the end of the word is the only way I can describe it.

You want exemplary German diction: I give you Herr Kaufmann, especially on the lieder recordings. Hey I cut some slack for everyone in a live performance!

As for spoken German I have a huge huge preference for Tirolean and Bayerische German, since that's where I learned mine and lived. That was one of the many things that killed me for JK: the moment I saw an interview in German and he had that accent that sounds like "home" to me, it was all over.

As opposed to the dude who introduces the Aspekt program and sounds like he has a you know what up his you know where! (sorry I just have a prejudice against north German hochdeutsch). I am sure they think I sound like an ignorant rube!

So I love German! We are singing Bach's Christmas Oratorio this year (in German) and I am well pleased (as opposed to years when we have sung in Swedish, Norwegian, Russian, Old Church Slavonic, etc etc)

ETA: Opera in English is hard for me, mostly because it sounds silly. Although I adore Peter Grimes and recently saw Turn of the Screw which was also perfect. I guess I'm thinking of the snippets of Heart of a Soldier I saw online that were odd--out of context of course.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

It's more than just noticing it, but a sudden, fixating awareness:










Perhaps it's more common with coughing. I'm usually fine with a bit of coughing and don't notice it all that much. But when there's one person who seemingly coughs every few minutes like clockwork, you begin anticipating it, and all you can think about is the cough that is bound to come - this can make it impossible to focus on the music. The more you try to put it out of your mind, the more you think about it.

Well, this happens to me sometimes with German opera and the endings of the words, especially the "cht" sound. The music may be beautiful and lyrical (being in German doesn't prevent this) but if I become "aware" of the endings, it can be come all hear, cht this, and cht that, and after each one passes I'm bracing myself for the next one...


----------



## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

Good grief, I oughta knock your block off!

Just kidding, sorry that happens and I am lucky that doesn't happen to me! Maybe you should go live in Germany for a while and then you'd get over it?


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Couchie, are you pulling our legs? Is this for real?
Signed, Alma, paranoid.


----------



## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

FragendeFrau said:


> My dear Amfortas "die Wunde!" (sorry I can never think of your name without attaching that to it :devil I had exactly the opposite response to Terfel's Wotan (especially poor man since I was comparing him to native speaker Herr Kaufmann). Every time Terfel had a word ending in "CH" it sounded like he was going to cough up a lugie on stage. It drove me crazy! Bryn, please just listen to Jonas. Just "let the CH happen" at the end of the word is the only way I can describe it.


I wonder if Terfel was using the Welsh pronunciation of "ch." I'm not joking -- although I don't speak Welsh myself, I knew a native speaker, and I seem to recall that the Welsh pronunciation of "ch" is even more forceful than the German.
Of course, being second-generation German, I think it's a beautiful language. (For that matter, I thought that the fragments of Welsh I heard sounded lovely, even though they had to be translated for me.)


----------



## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

FragendeFrau said:


> My dear Amfortas "die Wunde!" (sorry I can never think of your name without attaching that to it :devil I had exactly the opposite response to Terfel's Wotan (especially poor man since I was comparing him to native speaker Herr Kaufmann). Every time Terfel had a word ending in "CH" it sounded like he was going to cough up a lugie on stage. It drove me crazy! Bryn, please just listen to Jonas. Just "let the CH happen" at the end of the word is the only way I can describe it.


Not being a German speaker myself, I can only attest to Terfel's conscientious effort at pronouncing German; I will defer to you as to its success. 

By the way, the "Wunde" reference is entirely appropriate (and intended), so feel free to keep it in mind.


----------



## FragendeFrau (May 30, 2011)

MAuer said:


> I wonder if Terfel was using the Welsh pronunciation of "ch." I'm not joking -- although I don't speak Welsh myself, I knew a native speaker, and I seem to recall that the Welsh pronunciation of "ch" is even more forceful than the German.


That thought did cross my mind and perhaps you are right! I have no idea what spoken Welsh sounds like although at some point in my long life I must have heard it.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

FragendeFrau said:


> That thought did cross my mind and perhaps you are right! I have no idea what spoken Welsh sounds like although at some point in my long life I must have heard it.


Hm, neat. I was listening to Met Opera Radio today and Terfel addressed the audience in Welsh for a good minute! Then he said it all again in English. It's an interesting-sounding language.


----------

