# Starting the piano



## DaDirkNL

In a few months I am going to start taking piano lessons. The reason for postponing is that I am taking lessons for driving, wich is €50 per week. 
What steps should I take in advance for the piano?


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## PetrB

Other than learning from a text the note-names, notation, rhythmic notation, maybe a bit of general familiarity with key signatures (all theory, no playing -- or no more playing than locating those notated notes on a keyboard) I'd recommend no other 'piano prep,' and waiting until the lessons actually start. 

You can save some time and money in getting familiar with the mechanics of written music and a bit of theory, but actually playing -- wait until you are under the supervision of a teacher.


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## MoonlightSonata

Reading music is useful, but you don't really need to do anything else.


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## hreichgott

Listen to lots of good music  Enjoy learning!


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## bnolsen

For starters, you'll need to have a real acoustic piano or a digital piano with real hammer action. If possibly you can possibly score a decent acoustic from some parents who tried to get their kids to play. Of course that means you need to know if the piano is any good or not. A digital piano is an easier purchase as long as it has a *hammer action*. You WILL NOT learn on a cheapy "keyboard", don't even think of starting there.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

Hello!

You might want to learn the bit of theory that you will be taught once you start taking lessons, so that you can get your instructor to skip it during class. Saves a lot of time, and you get more value for your money!

I believe the initial things you'll be taught are going to be:
1. The note positions on the sheet music.
2. The note values.
3. Time signatures.
4. Scales (Major, Minor, Minor Melodic, Minor Harmonic).
5. Chords and inversions.

Give me a minute, and I'll post a few links of the best tutorials I find!

Can we also know if you already own a piano/keyboard?



bnolsen said:


> You WILL NOT learn on a cheapy "keyboard", don't even think of starting there.


I have one of those, and I second what you said! :lol:
Useless piece of crap!
Comes in handy though when you're trying to compose something.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

1. The note positions on the sheet music.
http://www.musictheoryacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/keyboard-and-stave.jpg

2. The note values and rests.









3. Time signatures.





4. Scales (Major, Minor, Minor Melodic, Minor Harmonic).
Major:
http://www.pianoscales.org/major.html

Minor:
http://www.pianoscales.org/minor.html

Minor Melodic:
http://www.pianoscales.org/minor-melodic.html

Minor Harmonic:
http://www.pianoscales.org/minor-harmonic.html

5. Chords and inversions.

I think these can wait, until you've learn your scales. If you're curious, though, you can get the gist of it from any tutorial on Youtube.

Best of luck!
You'll love the piano! It's awesome!


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## DaDirkNL

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> 1. The note positions on the sheet music.
> http://www.musictheoryacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/keyboard-and-stave.jpg
> 
> 2. The note values and rests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Time signatures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Scales (Major, Minor, Minor Melodic, Minor Harmonic).
> Major:
> http://www.pianoscales.org/major.html
> 
> Minor:
> http://www.pianoscales.org/minor.html
> 
> Minor Melodic:
> http://www.pianoscales.org/minor-melodic.html
> 
> Minor Harmonic:
> http://www.pianoscales.org/minor-harmonic.html
> 
> 5. Chords and inversions.
> 
> I think these can wait, until you've learn your scales. If you're curious, though, you can get the gist of it from any tutorial on Youtube.
> 
> Best of luck!
> You'll love the piano! It's awesome!


Very helpful. Thank you! And yes, we own an acoustic piano.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

DaDirkNL said:


> Very helpful. Thank you! And yes, we own an acoustic piano.


Don't mention it.
And if you have any further questions, myself and, I'm sure, the members of this forum are always here to help.
Let us know how you progress!


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Hello!
> 
> You might want to learn the bit of theory that you will be taught once you start taking lessons, so that you can get your instructor to skip it during class. Saves a lot of time, and you get more value for your money!
> 
> I believe the initial things you'll be taught are going to be:
> 1. The note positions on the sheet music.
> 2. The note values.
> 3. Time signatures.
> 4. Scales (Major, Minor, Minor Melodic, Minor Harmonic).
> 5. Chords and inversions.


As a piano pedagogue, I am in vehement disagreement with my colleague re: points four and five.
There is enough to basically familiarize yourself with in the first three areas. Even then, with only a month or two and not having full days to dedicate, what you have learned will only be the most basic of those basics before you walk in to your first lesson, or get to scales and chords.

Scales are too often taught by rote, and I am very against laundry-list memorization of things which actually have principles of how they are constructed which are much better learned first.

So learn what are half-steps and whole steps, and let the remainder wait for a teacher. I hope to encourage you to do no more than that by saying this:
There is really only one scale, and there is (are) only about one and a half fingering patterns for playing all scales. _(Ergo, you do not have to memorize a laundry list of 24 'separate' scales, or that many scales fingerings  -- Yay!_


_The musical alphabet and reading notes:_
Please take on faith that it would be remarkably useful for you to be able to say the seven alpha characters of the musical scale forwards and backwards _from any starting point_, and always return to that starting alpha:

abcdefga / agfedcba
bcdefgab / bagfedcb
cdefgabc / cbagfedc
etc.

and even more important for reading the music in both bass and treble, naming every other letter from that sequence first in pairs, then pairs of pairs. again, forward and backward.

C,E,
D,F
E,G etc.E,C.
D,B.
C,A. etc

That is more than enough, 1-3 and what I've added, before you walk in and say 'how do you do,' and then actually begin 

Best regards.

P.s. Whether for child or adult, I am opposed to the use of any acronym to learn the note locations of lines or spaces on the musical staff. There, I say just suck it up and 'learn them' without the crutches.


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## Majed Al Shamsi

You're absolutely right, PetrB.
It's precisely why I put scales and chords/inversions at the bottom of the list.
The links I shared provide an insight into how these scales are constructed. I actually made sure of that.


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> You're absolutely right, PetrB.
> It's precisely why I put scales and chords/inversions at the bottom of the list.
> The links I shared provide an insight into how these scales are constructed. I actually made sure of that.


That is fine, but I went ahead and more than heavily "put them down" further, as it were.

Showing a number of major scales transposed, no matter how soon the explanation of step-pattern construction comes in thereafter, is another way to totally "not go about it"

The old rote pedagogy, and its mental habits, lingers on and on and on. It is mind clutter vs. actual learning how something works, which leads to an understanding nearly impossible to forget, so I go more than a little freaky out of my way _to forever abolish unnecessary rote pedagogy from the face of the earth_


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## Majed Al Shamsi

PetrB said:


> That is fine, but I went further and more than heavily "put them down" further, as it were. Showing a number of major scales transposed, no matter how soon the explanation of step-pattern construction comes in thereafter, is another way to totally "not go about it" The old rote pedagogy, and its mental habits, lingers on and on and on. It is mind clutter vs. actual rationization and understanding, so I go a little freaky out of my way to _abolish it from the face of the earth forever._


Haha! Fair enough!
You're the expert, after all.


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## PetrB

Majed Al Shamsi said:


> Haha! Fair enough!
> You're the expert, after all.


Re: the word _expert_... often maligned, or somewhat misunderstood. It is derived, with or without certificates, diplomas, parchments with ribbons and seals impressed in wax, from _experience._ Lol.

The 'old way' didn't really kill anyone -- while the newer way is very direct, much harder to forget once learned, and is that much quicker a complete 'in' for the student.


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## Aniol Czelusniak

You can go to this website and learn alot of theory and over all piano. It actually is very helpful but I dont use it to much haha.


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## Ingélou

Great thread - can't wait to hear how you get on, DaDirkNL!


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## DaDirkNL

Ingélou said:


> Great thread - can't wait to hear how you get on, DaDirkNL!


Thanks for showing interest!


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## DaDirkNL

Well, I just had my first lesson!


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## Matsps

DaDirkNL said:


> Well, I just had my first lesson!


How did the lesson go?


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## DaDirkNL

Matsps said:


> How did the lesson go?


I think it went well.


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## hreichgott

Congratulations on starting  Now off you go to practice!


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## DaDirkNL

It's now been 3,5 months since I started, and I can honestly say I have practised my *** off.
I am halfway through the first book now. By the way it is 'The joy of first year piano' by Denes Agay.


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## Krummhorn

Great news to hear about ... :clap::clap:

Years ago I came up with this little catchy phrase:
_Amateurs practice until they get it all right ... professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

Kh ♫
_


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## appoggiatura

Great!  Do you enjoy playing the piano?


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## DaDirkNL

appoggiatura said:


> Great!  Do you enjoy playing the piano?


Love it. There's not one instrument wich I would like to play more right now.


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## Kidbuu

i think piano is very amazing


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## Potiphera

DaDirkNL said:


> Love it. There's not one instrument wich I would like to play more right now.


How many hours per day do you set aside for practice?


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## pianississimo

Glad to hear you're doing well  
I think the number one tip that I've ever heard is *learn to love practicing!!* If it's a chore then you'll probably quit eventually. Especially if there's no chance of you ever playing professionally - so only self motivation can work!
Off to practice now!!


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## farris

For starters, you'll need to have a real acoustic piano or a digital piano with real hammer action. If possibly you can possibly score a decent acoustic from some parents who tried to get their kids to play. Of course that means you need to know if the piano is any good or not. A digital piano is an easier purchase as long as it has a hammer action. You WILL NOT learn on a cheapy "keyboard", don't even think of starting there.


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## pianississimo

As a recent beginner, I think that two things are important. One is enjoyment of practice. Practicing well will determine how well you will play. Children forced into lessons might skip practice in the holidays, but time off work for me means hours of bliss alone at the piano. If you love to practice then you can improve. If you have to force yourself then you face an uphill struggle.
Second is developing an inner pulse. Rhythm is a tricky thing to learn unless you are naturally gifted or learned another instrument as a young child.
I have learned so much about pulse and meter and the tricks that composers play with time in music since starting to play!
Music can be defined most simply as "sound in time" I like this definition because it gives time as much significance as sound.
Clap rhythms in music that you listen to and get to know how time signatures work. That'll give you great prep for lessons.

Last thought. Piano is a lot of fun. Just wait til you hit the Mozart!!!


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## GhenghisKhan

I don`t remember who said it but a composer once said that music is counting without counting. 

Wise words I think!


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## Ilarion

Hmmm - Starting the piano...Like a Model A Ford?...Insert crank handle and turn clockwise...Yeah, I know...I'm a wiseguy


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## GhenghisKhan

Don't go breaking anyone's legs here...


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## Ilarion

GhenghisKhan said:


> Don't go breaking anyone's legs here...


No fears! I'm only busting chops:lol:


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## pianississimo

I only learned the scales as I reached each grade. They introduce them a little at a time at ABRSM. You can get bogged down with scales and arpeggios. I find it easier to do a few random ones each day and then blitz them sometimes when I have a whole afternoon. I do find it hard to judge how to practice cadences and chord progressions. Absolutely everyone seems to have their own very different opinion on this. My teacher seems to mostly ignore it, figuring you learn it from the pieces and sight reading that you play. Any other opinions?


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## Taggart

One trick when practising scales, arpeggios whatever, is to list all the ones you have to do for the exam - legato, staccato, similar motion, contrary motion, third apart and so on. Then put them in a box and pull one out. Have a spare box for the "good" scales. When you can play it accurately, first time, with no hesitations of false starts then it goes in the "good" box , otherwise practice it a couple of times and put it back. Repeat as necessary until the box is empty. Then try it again swapping the boxes over. As you get better look at tone, speed, general fluency and other elements of technique. Then try and see how fast you can empty the box. All of this builds confidence so when the examiner says scale X, you have no problems.

When it comes to cadences and chord progressions, these are more a matter of theory than practice unless you're doing a Jazz exam or practical music. Very few "standard" pianists will actually play a chord progression unless they're playing from lead sheets and *that* isn't in the ABRSM exam. You'll generally find this in keyboard books where people are adding harmonies to a melody line or in folk or jazz.


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## pianississimo

I'm not that interested in Jazz but I would like to know how improvisation works in practice and this is one reason why I would like to focus some time on chords, inversions and chord progressions. 
Also the theory of chord progressions and inversions appear in later grades of ABRSM music theory which I would like to take.
Lastly, I know that so much music contains basic chord progressions, common inversions and even scale passages; my teacher constantly tells me I'm good at sight reading, but I'd like to get better. I think that practicing common progressions and patterns could help improve sight reading because you become more familiar with common patterns and so can play them more fluently.


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## Taggart

An alternative to the theory is practical musicianship which covers some of this, especially improvisation.

The trouble is that although you get "basic chord progressions and common inversions" which are basically solid arpeggios, you can play them over (about) four octaves. I'm playing some Mendelssohn, he can play a B minor chord using either B2 or B3 in the bass and then fill in with D3, F#3 or go up a bit to B4, D4, F#4. It all depends on the effect he wants.

The ability to recognise the patterns is useful not so much in the playing but in the memorisation of a passage. Identifying standard cadences, progressions and modulations is part of the aural tests in the higher grades


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## clockworkmurderer

just wanted to say thanks for this thread. Sadly, I will be learning on a "Cheapy keyboard," though I'm not actually that sad about it because it was a gift and I've wanted to learn for a long time. if it sounds awful that's alright; I will get somewhere with it whether it's ideal or not, of that I am certain. Now to overcome the inertia and force time into my schedule with which to practice


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## Pugg

clockworkmurderer said:


> just wanted to say thanks for this thread. Sadly, I will be learning on a "Cheapy keyboard," though I'm not actually that sad about it because it was a gift and I've wanted to learn for a long time. if it sounds awful that's alright; I will get somewhere with it whether it's ideal or not, of that I am certain. Now to overcome the inertia and force time into my schedule with which to practice


One advice: make time, music making is wonderful :tiphat:


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## DaDirkNL

It has been a while since I last checked this thread out, let alone post something on the forum. In a few weeks I will be getting my first (10 year old) student! I have been reading quite a bit on piano teaching, since I have no experience in teaching the piano. For the first lesson, I was thinking about just exploring the keyboard and doing some basic musical things like locating the C, playing loud/soft, hand position et cetera. Any tips on the first lesson?


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## Bettina

DaDirkNL said:


> It has been a while since I last checked this thread out, let alone post something on the forum. In a few weeks I will be getting my first (10 year old) student! I have been reading quite a bit on piano teaching, since I have no experience in teaching the piano. For the first lesson, I was thinking about just exploring the keyboard and doing some basic musical things like locating the C, playing loud/soft, hand position et cetera. Any tips on the first lesson?


Good luck with getting started as a piano teacher! This question is right up my alley--I've been teaching piano for about 20 years. Your ideas for the first lesson sound good. I would just add that you should give the student a simple piece to practice, so that they have something concrete to work on at home.

If the student can't read music yet, then you can teach them to play something by rote/finger numbers. Here's how I do that: I show the student how to put both hands in a C five-finger position, covering the notes CDEFG. I go over the finger numbers (your thumb is 1, index finger 2, etc). Then I take a piece of paper and I write down the finger numbers for a melody, like Beethoven's Ode to Joy. (Right hand: 3 3 4 5, 5 4 3 2, and so on. Left hand: 3 3 2 1, 1 2 3 4...) The student can use this as a reference guide for practicing the melody at home. The student can even try playing the melody hands together, by reading both sets of finger numbers simultaneously.

When it comes time for the second lesson, you might want to start using an actual lesson book with a systematic curriculum--something like the Alfred or Piano Adventures series.

Let me know if you have any more questions...I'm obsessed with piano pedagogy and I could talk/write about this stuff all day!! :lol:


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## DaDirkNL

That is great advice, thank you. I'll know who to ask any questions I have.


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## 76Trombones

PetrB said:


> The old rote pedagogy, and its mental habits, lingers on and on and on. It is mind clutter vs. actual learning how something works, which leads to an understanding nearly impossible to forget, so I go more than a little freaky out of my way _to forever abolish unnecessary rote pedagogy from the face of the earth_


What would you call the method you teach? What you describe sounds exactly the way I prefer to learn. I'm looking for a piano teacher now and knowing what your method is called would help me in my search.


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## gentlemarry

Hi,

what's the right age to begin with piano music lessons?


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## Krummhorn

gentlemarry said:


> Hi,
> 
> what's the right age to begin with piano music lessons?


Imho, no sooner than age 6 (as was in my case) and no upper limit in age.


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## Bettina

Krummhorn said:


> Imho, no sooner than age 6 (as was in my case) and no upper limit in age.


I agree--6 is a good age to start studying an instrument. But it's helpful for kids to take early childhood music classes even before that (starting at around 3 or 4 years old). This gives them some experience with singing, clapping, and other musicianship skills, and all of this helps to prepare them for the more formal study of an instrument.


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## StraussCalman

There are several tips about piano practice:
1) Mention how every key sounds. Mention the sound first, the dependence between the sound and the way you push key and release it. Piano sounds are very beautiful.
2) Never play tunes you don't like.
3) Practice daily, but take a break when you are half-heartedly (for 1-2 weeks).
4) Don't play too much, 2 hours per day is more than enough.
5) Don't try to achieve amazing technicue in a short period of time, don't play too fast, don't overplay your hands.
6) If you have a choice what to play (classical music or pop/rock) play classical tunes first. Classical experience helps to play pop/rock/jazz better, but playing pop doesn't improve technique, especially if you're a first time pianist.
7) Don't play the same tune more than 3-4 times a day.

Good luck!


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## Crystal

Listen to lots of music and do lots of Czerny or Hanon exercises. Use the metronome.


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