# What to think of bootlegs , respect the law or whaf if it's so darn rare ??



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

This subject is interesting, what do you think of them there unauthorized Lp or cd but what if some stuff just too cool, what if the classical composer never authorize one of work, you find an obscur bootleg it's awesome, yet your a law biding citizen, what to think of this?

Would you are have you in the past purchased a bootleg, extremely rare and limited, obscur work, you feel your cheap in a way the artist as not been paid but the bootlegs is just too perfect?

This post is liable for Jazz , blues , old rock affectionado,
What if your a fan of Pat Hare , there are only sparse 7''inch available, you can't find a propper 33'' or 45'' inch of this blues rock monolith.I wonder if someone started a trend on this so far , wild guess it most have occured, if so my excuse , merge the post whit first post on this?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

In general, I do not want bootlegs, I don't buy them, and it's wrong. Having said that...I do have a few. For a long, long time the only way to hear the two operas of Franz Schmidt was by illegal, off-the-air recordings that dedicated music lovers made and had LPs pressed. In the cd era, there's no cd I've wanted that I can't get, often on Ebay! I have no need to make bootlegs.

I do have some very rare cds, particularly movie soundtracks, but I don't loan them out or make copies for people.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I have no problem with bootlegs. If they are excellent it does not take away from any other recordings I have and doesn't stop me purchasing other music. I've always found the anti-bootleg arguments to be silly. I have quite a few made for radio performances on mp3 that were never released but what is wrong with that? I still have my other 100+ cycles. I got them for completion sake and to hear certain conductors earlier interpretations of the LvB symphonies. I feel the same about out of print recordings. If I want it and can get it I will. Why should I have to wait around for something that may or may not be rereleased for a limited period in Japan only for £300? That's just daylight robbery.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

The Russian pianist Grigori Sokolov refuses to make any commercial recordings and bootlegs are the only recordings of his music available


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

There are many live bootleg recording of historical operas video and sound - I wouldnt mind having some of them esp as there are no commercial copies available.Commercial copies would have better sound quality etc so I would pay the extra. Also a lot of bootleg opera TV broadcasts have annoying subtitles etc on them - or subtitles in the wrong language , for me - which is a pain. So yes I would pay the full whack for a proper production but if not available then bootleg will do.

We have all at some time flouted copyright law by listening to copies at one time or another. When I was a teenager I used to make recordings off the radio and listen. Put me in handcuffs.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Like many others here, I try to avoid them, but invariably you find a great piece of music that is simply not commercially available. I figure if they ever want to make it commercially available I'll pick a copy up and pay my dues. You can't watch Flotow's opera, Martha, but by bootleg as there are zero commercial videos of it that I am aware of.

Another question is, how much good does it do the artist when we buy used CDs?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Another question is, how much good does it do the artist when we buy used CDs?


None but its cheaper than buying new. They've already profited from the original sale of the CD.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Merl said:


> None but its cheaper than buying new. They've already profited from the original sale of the CD.


And I guess to some extent the seller gets money they can use to buy more new CDs, if that is what they do with it. But I know of people who will takie music out of the library and copy it. Others will buy a CD, rip the tracks, and resell it.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

If I remember correctly the rock music press allowed 'bootlegs required' ads but not 'bootlegs for sale'. Back in the vinyl days home taping was also considered illegal but how could the law be enforced unless blank cassettes were banned for general sale?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I draw the line at selling copies in competition with their commercial originals. For personal use, I take my music where I can find it, and at the lowest price I can pay. When I buy commercial recordings, it's usually second-hand. I've bought a few bootleg recordings of music not commercially available, and I've made many copies for my own use in order to hear music I couldn't have afforded, and wouldn't have bought, otherwise. 

All of that, though, is in the past. Had I foreseen the internet and the possibility of hearing almost anything for free, I would've saved thousands of dollars on CDs, storage, and the effort of lugging them around.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Lets face it you can hear anything on youtube for free - though I note that some recordings now have annoying audio visual ads popping up every 5 minutes which would be enough to put me off that particular recording.

If I think about the past - if I wanted to hear a work I had never heard before I could either rent from the library - or have to buy the CD/LP. I tended to do the latter. So recently I decided I wanted to hear the Britten VC. I just tuned into youtube and heard the whole thing for free. The quality is acceptable. I am past the times when I would nitpick over sound and insist on the best possible sound or no sound at all. In the old days I would have got out the penguin guide and bought a top CD performance.

I spend now 0 on recordings so the internet must be costing the industry money unless they are making it up in other ways.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> If I remember correctly the rock music press allowed 'bootlegs required' ads but not 'bootlegs for sale'. Back in the vinyl days home taping was also considered illegal but how could the law be enforced unless blank cassettes were banned for general sale?


Supermarket shelves are stacked with blank CDs and DVDs. What are these being bought for if not for burning music and movies?


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

David Phillips said:


> Supermarket shelves are stacked with blank CDs and DVDs. What are these being bought for if not for burning music and movies?


and cars are made to go 120MPH

the speed limit is 70 in the UK


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

For all its faults the Internet has stopped us getting stuck with turkeys. I used to buy vinyl on a whim and get stuck with some absolute rubbish. The Internet allows me to listen before I buy so no more turkeys. In the past some people used home taping for the same purpose. I'm a keen advocate of listening before buying and, as I said, if it's out of print I'll get it any way I can. How else can you get Dorati"s Beethoven cycle, for example? I had to get a vinyl rip of it as the original master tapes are now presumed lost.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

So here's a question, ignoring CDs why dont all record labels gradually release their entire back-catalogue digitally? Promotion is not necessary, I can't see the costs being large (are there any?) as its not a CD. Can anyone answer this?


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Merl said:


> So here's a question, ignoring CDs why dont all record labels gradually release their entire back-catalogue digitally? Promotion is not necessary, I can't see the costs being large (are there any?) as its not a CD. Can anyone answer this?


because they want people to buy the latest cookie cutter Beethoven symphony cycle and not a low price download of Karajan's vastly superior 1963 DG set, for example.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Musicians are paid so little relative to their years of training that I think it’s wrong to buy bootlegs.

I understand the temptation if the repertoire is under represented in recordings. On this thread, we know that the OP has a strong love of Early Music, and I am willing to believe that in many cases bootleg recordings are the only option, and I suspect that de profundis started this thread because he is morally conflicted by this. Beethoven Symphony Cycles? Another story. There are hundreds of them available in every conceivable type of performance tradition. There is no reason that one has to resort to stealing


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Triplets said:


> Musicians are paid so little relative to their years of training that I think it's wrong to buy bootlegs.
> 
> I understand the temptation if the repertoire is under represented in recordings. On this thread, we know that the OP has a strong love of Early Music, and I am willing to believe that in many cases bootleg recordings are the only option, and I suspect that de profundis started this thread because he is morally conflicted by this. Beethoven Symphony Cycles? Another story. There are hundreds of them available in every conceivable type of performance tradition. There is no reason that one has to resort to stealing


I would rather buy the commercial release than a bootleg whenever I can, but again, does buying a used commercial release benefit the musician?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Merl said:


> So here's a question, ignoring CDs why dont all record labels gradually release their entire back-catalogue digitally? Promotion is not necessary, I can't see the costs being large (are there any?) as its not a CD. Can anyone answer this?


I suppose everyone knows the rediscovery.us site? They have a good number of old records that no-one want to reissue or no-one owns the copyright for. There are some great things there (Steinberg Beethoven, some Martinon, some Paray). But there are so few! I can think of many records that no-one can be bothered to issue and are just not available. To start with, a wonderful Sibelius 7 from Mravinsky (with the lovely warbling trombone that Russian orchestras used to have)!


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

If a bootleg copy is the only form in which a particular performance is available then that's fine with me. The amount of "private" recordings (usually taped from radio broadcasts or even with a recorder smuggled into a venue) is much larger than many realise.

In the case of a recording which was available on vinyl decades ago but has never been reissued, that's also fine and a signal to the parties owning the rights that they should re-release it. Sometimes, however, legal and financial complications make this impossible.


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