# The New Guy's To-Do List - Advice Wanted



## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

Hi all,
I've decided that I want to spend some time really exploring classical music and get a good education in it. Some of the stuff I really enjoyed and helped start me off was Dvorak's "New World" OP95 as well as the clique Beethoven's Ninth and Mozart's Requiem in D Minor. I appreciate classical that has deep emotion and a well crafted sound. These are what I plan on hearing next:
Dvorak’s 8th 
Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances
Mozart Piano Concerto N.21 in C Major
Stravinsky’s Symphony in 3 Movements
Beethoven Sympony N.5 
Beethoven Appasionata Piano Concerto N.23
Bruckner Symphony N.8
Thanks,
Kogami


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Start with Bach's Mass in B minor. Then everything else will make sense.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Mozart symphonies 35, 29, 25, 40, 41


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## KRoad (Jun 1, 2012)

If it must be Mozart (but I think should be Bach too, only his Brandenburg Concertos and Orchestral Suites since Mass in H Moll requires some listening discipline) then surely his piano concertos are more "moving"?


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

Alright I'll append the Mass in B Minor to the list.
Kogami


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Mozart is not great for deep emotion. Emotion is flaw. Mozart was not flawed, and as a result Mozart's dramatic works have a certain sense of artificiality to them. 

For a real good time, try Wagner. YouTube "prelude to Tristan und Isolde".


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

StevenOBrien said:


> Mozart symphonies 35, 29, 25, 40, 41


Ok but that seems like a lot of Mozart for getting started...


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Mozart's Piano Concertos, Beethoven's Piano Sonatas, and Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier - for starters. There is a lot of music there, but all of it essential listening imo.  You've got a LOOONNNNG way to go - just enjoy the journey.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I've just listened to Dvorak's 8th for the first time today, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a very nice symphony.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Mozart is not great for deep emotion. Emotion is flaw. Mozart was not flawed, and as a result Mozart's dramatic works have a certain sense of artificiality to them.
> 
> For a real good time, try Wagner. YouTube "prelude to Tristan und Isolde".


As if Wagner is less wholly synthetic or 'more spontaneous' than Mozart ~ your comment is risible.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ 
Try some Monteverdi

Lasciate mi morire





Zefiro Torna





What the hey, try book IV of the madrigals... here, a wonderful 'staged' dramatic filmed performance: (Visual set-up lasts through 3'55'' - then the music begins.


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

Wow. Lasciatemi morire was absolutely spellbinding! The harmonics were so incredible and the balance was impeccable. Thanks for sharing that with me; I'll be sure to add some Monteverdi to the list. (Though he does seem to think about death a lot)
Kogami


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm a newboy here.
What you need to do is have a look around the forum
There is absolutely hundreds of different pieces mentioned
Have a listen/look on Youtube and make your own decisions.
It's cost me a fortune
BUT it's well worthwhile


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## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

If you have listened to very little classical music, I would do this:

A couple of years ago, when I had heard a few symphonies and string quartets but not much else (besides piano music), I went to the Wikipedia page listing medieval composers by chronological order. It's amazing what one can find on YouTube. I was able to find a couple of representative works for almost every composer there (amazing since it's medieval), and I went through them all, starting with Hildegarde, moving through Léonin and Pérotin, some troubadours, and when I was done that, I went to Renaissance and did those. I just did it for half an hour every day, and I moved along steadily. You don't have to listen to every single thing that a composer wrote, but I would recommend listening to _something_ from everyone, and _at least_ half a dozen representative works for the major composers. Go through Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Post-Romantic, and Twentieth Century. It will be _well_ worth your while and incredibly rewarding; watching the evolution of music is simply remarkable.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

If you enjoy Dvorak's 8th and 9th, try his 7th! I can't decide which of those I like most (I like them all! MWUHAHAHAHA!!)

I also think Tchaikovsky's symphonies are good picks to ease into. Most people will recommend 4-5-6, but I like them all (MWUHAHAHAHA!!). 5th is my favorite.

There is also a criminal lack of violin concerti in this thread! I will start off by recommending you these: Sibelius (this is the one that got me to pick up an instrument with zero previous musical training in my ripe old age!), Beethoven, Brahms. And of course, Bach's Double Violin Concerto.

Sibelius' VC, just spell-binding:


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## Chopinator (Jun 12, 2012)

Some of my personal favorites include:

Dvorak's "American" String Quartet (1st Movement mostly)
Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade (this link is only a taste of the whole thing)
Haydn's Trumpet Concerto (3rd Movement mostly)
Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2
Mozart's Fantasy in D Minor (K. 385)
Chopin's Nocturne Op.9 No.2.

None of these are super long, so I would definitely recommending going through and listening to all of them.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PetrB said:


> As if Wagner is less wholly synthetic or 'more spontaneous' than Mozart ~ your comment is risible.


Compare:

Mozart:






Wagner:






Mozart's scene is perfect to a fault: Wagner's on the other hand is _truly _harrowing.


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

First of all, ignore Couchie's comment about emotion being "flaw" (?) and therefore lacking in Mozart. Untrue. But you've listened to the Requiem, so you know that already.

Second, it seems so far you are into orchestral and choral works, so my advice is to continue to explore in those genres--sampling different eras, different composers--before turning to too much chamber, solo piano, etc. But that's just my two cents.

Some recommendations:

-Dvorak, Cello Concerto & 7th Symphony (I do not like the 8th as much)
-Mendelssohn, Violin Concerto
-Tchaikovsky, Violin Concerto and 6th Symphony
-Mozart, 40th Symphony, Piano Concertos 20 and 23 (no "emotion"! artificial! I don't think so)
-Brahms, 3rd or 4th symphony
-Bruckner 4 (the 8th is my favorite but it's forbidding; I'd advise working up to it)
-perhaps the Shostakovich 5th symphony
-Verdi Requiem

These are all works with great depth but which are also tonal and rather accessible on first listen.

Finally, do what cwarchc said!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Hausmusik said:


> First of all, ignore Couchie's comment about emotion being "flaw" (?) and therefore lacking in Mozart. Untrue. But you've listened to the Requiem, so you know that already.


He doesn't know what he knows yet. He'll get there though. For people who aren't kidding themselves or have the need to stretch Mozart's hide out so tight on the drum it ruptures, it's obvious Mozart was much more at home in flippant works like Nozze, Zauberflote, Cosi, etc.


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## Toddlertoddy (Sep 17, 2011)

30 minutes of Romantic emotion. This actually took me awhile to "get" but is awesome once you get to know it. There are three parts to it.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I also recommend : Bedrich Smetana, The Moldau , part of the 6 part programmatic cycle Ma Vlast
(My fatherland ). 
Gustav Hoilst : The Planets . Sir Edward Elgar; Enigma Variations . 
Wagner: Overtures and preludes from Rienzi, The Flying Dutchman, Tanhauser, Lohengrin.
Ride of the Valkyries from Die Walkure. Forest Murmurs from Siegfried. Siegfried's Rhine Journey
from Gotterdammerung (Twilight of the gods), and Siegfried's funeral march from same.
Prelude and Liebestod(Love-Death) from Tristan & Islolde. Ovferture to Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg(The mastersingers of Nurnberg). Prelude to Parsifal, plus Good Friday music . Siegfried Idyll .

Richard Strauss : symphonic poems Don Juan Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks, Death and Tranfiguration,
Also Sprach Zarathustra (opening musi cused in Kubrick's 2001 a Space Odyssey).
Don Quixote. Ein Heldenleben(A hero's life). Symphonia Domestica. An Alpine Symphony .

Modest Mussorgsky : Pictures at an Exhibition, orchestration by Ravel.
Antonin Dvorak : Cello concerto. Slavonic Dances. Carneval overture . 
Mozart : the four concertos for horn . 
Haydn: Oratios The Creation and The Seasons . Cesar franck; Symphony in D minor. 
Aaron Copland : Suite from the ballet Billy the Kid. Rodeo ballet. 
Franz Liszt : symphonic poem :Les Preludes . Piano concertos 1 and 2 . Mephisto waltz for either piano or in orchestral form . A Faust Symphony .
Jean Sibelius : symphonies 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Finlandia . The Swan of Tuonela . Tapiola. En Saga .
Violin concerto .
Alexander Borodin : In the Steppes of Central Asia. Polovoetzian Dances, from the opera Prince igor.
Symphony no 2.


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## Hausmusik (May 13, 2012)

Couchie, It strikes me as strange all your examples are from opera, when Mozart was one of the most versatile of composers. Broaden your knowledge a bit, then get back to us.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I suggest you listen to (possibly search them on youtube, but they're all worth to buy): 

Dvorak:
- Symphony # 3, 5, 6, 7
- String Quartet # 1, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14
- String Quintet
- Violin Concerto
- Cello Concerto
- Piano Trio # 3, 4
- Slavonic Dances

Mendelssohn:
- Violin Concerto

Bruckner:
- Symphony # 6, 7

R.V.Williams:
- Fantasia on a theme
- Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus

Brahms:
Symphony # 3, 4
- Piano Concerto # 1, 2
- Clarinet Quintet #1
- Piano Quintet
- Variation on a theme by Haydn
- Hungarian Dances

Schumann:
Symphony # 1, 3

Aram Khachaturian:
- Gayane Ballet
- Violin Concerto

Mozart:
- Symphony # 40, 41

Beriot:
- Violin Concerto # 1, 2, 5

Rimsky-Korsakov:
- Scheherazade

Sibelius:
- Symphony # 1, 2
- Violin Concerto
- Piano Quintet (G major)
- Piano Sonata in F Major, JS 178

Haydn:
- Trumpet Concerto
- Haydn Symphony # 60, 88, 92, 94, 96, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104 (They're all great)

I tried to suggest the best of each composer that you may like more.
You must be bunkrupted for now!:lol:


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

There are many ways of getting involved in listening to classical music. 

One of these is to subscribe to the local orchestra's symphony concert series if you can afford it and if it is practical for you to do so. 

I really like listening to live music. I find that I relate so much better to a specific piece of recorded music when I have had the opportunity to hear it live. There is an awesome wonder in watching an orchestra at work. This is true even of orchestras that are not usually regarded as great orchestras.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Agreed re live music, moira.



Kogami said:


> Hi all,
> I've decided that I want to spend some time really exploring classical music and get a good education in it. Some of the stuff I really enjoyed and helped start me off was Dvorak's "New World" OP95...


Schubert is the closest being a 'natural melodist' to Dvorak. Another one would be Mendelssohn. Try their symphonies.

Dvorak was influenced a lot by Brahms. He is also worth ago (4 symphonies, masterpieces all).

Also, other Czechs like Smetana - try his Overture to the opera _The Bartered Bride_ for a start - and if you want something more Modern, Janacek (eg._ Taras Bulba_).

Tchaikovsky is another great melodist & very emotional. All his symphonies are worth a listen, the final 3 are essential listening, but my favourite is his 2nd, the_ Little Russian_.



> ... as well as the clique Beethoven's Ninth and Mozart's Requiem in D Minor. I appreciate classical that has deep emotion and a well crafted sound...


Well other choral symphonies, or with choral component are worth hearing. Eg. Mendelssohn's 2nd symphony, Mahler's 2nd and 8th. In 20th century, Vaughan Williams' Sym. #1_ A SEa Symphony._ For more modern, Shostakovich's Sym.#13_ Babi Yar_ (but it is quite dark, as he tends to be).

Also other requiems. More dramatic ones are by Berlioz and Verdi. More lyrical ones are Faure and Durufle. A rare one, a favourite of mine, is Stanford's.


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys! It looks like I'm going to have my work cut out for me!
Kogami


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Also: if you're moved by a specific composer or style of music, don't feel compelled to move away from them and onto "the next thing on the list" Let your listening meander if you feel that's what you want to do. I've listened seriously to classical only about a year or so, and try to get "the big ones" in. But that's only after I've returned from meandering journeys down other paths that intrigue me at the time.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Every one of these suggestions is great.

I did it a little differently when I was first starting out though. Instead of sampling across wide swaths of different kinds of music, I chose one specific area to start and began there. With me, it was the Russians. Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, Rimsky Korsakov's Shehehrazade, Tchaikovsky's Pathetique, piano concerto and ballet suites, Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto, Stravinsky Firebird Suite and Rite of Spring, etc. It helped for me to have that focus so I could wrap my head around it.

Later, I went on to investigate Beethoven, Wagner, romantic symphonies, Mozart, Haydn, etc. still grouping likes together so I could get an idea of the whole of a particular area. Feel free to do it your own way though.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

J.S. Bach. BWV 582. Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor


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## Kogami (Jun 12, 2012)

JS Bach Toccata and Fugue:




[/QUOTE]
I prefer the Toccata myself...
Kogami


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## Jaws (Jun 4, 2011)

I think you will like Verdi requiem and Janacek Sinfonietta.


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## ovk (May 5, 2012)

So much advices for orchestral music here. But maybe you should also listen to not so loud things and try some nonetheless genious chamber music, such as Beethoven and Brahms piano/cello and piano/violin sonatas, Schubert late string quartets and the famous quintet, Haydn piano sonatas, Schostakovich string quartets and so on. I for myself for a long time didn't feel completely ready for orchestral works, and preferred to listen to chamber things, and that greatly made classical music more understandable for me, so now it's easier for me to get into concertos/symphonies than earlier.


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## humanbean (Mar 5, 2011)

Schumann's Piano Concerto in A minor. I've been listening to classical for about a year and a half now, but only recently began to appreciate this wonderful work. It seems like it would be quite accessible to newcomers, especially for a piano concerto.


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## chuttt (Jun 16, 2012)

A lot of great suggestions already so I won't add. But one thing I do that really helped me is to read about the info of th music. 

Before the Internet I always spent time on the booklet or the info at the back of the album. Now with an iPad I can get a lot more info than before.

Understanding the story behind why someone wrote the music at that time of his/her life drawn a lot more emotion when I listen to the music. I can relate more to the music and everything.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Except that in all likelihood, Bach did not write the Toccata and Fugue in D minor. His authorship has been seriously challenged for 25-30 years and the evidence is strong. You can easily find information about the doubtful provenance online, not that anything online is the last word in scholarship...but, it is an easy place to start. Good luck in your musical adventures, many excellent works have been mentioned by other members, even Couchie's assessment of Mozart was heartwarming  - I will only mention one work that you probably already know, but if not, look for a recording of the Beethoven 7th Symphony performed by Berlin or Vienna or the Concertgebouw or Cleveland. You will certainly know the 2nd movement 'Allegretto' which I'm sure you can find on Youtube (or, in excerpted form by watching the last 20 minutes of the movie, THE KING'S SPEECH 



Kogami said:


> JS Bach Toccata and Fugue:


I prefer the Toccata myself...
Kogami[/QUOTE]


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