# But did Beethoven really say it?



## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

A line attributed to Beethoven is this: "I liked your opera. I think I will set it to music." It's even used as a sig file by at least one of our members (Rachmanijohn). It's all over the interwebs like herpes but without any attribution. I've tried to track the source down but I've had no luck Does anyone know if, or when & where, Beethoven said it? And if it's genuine, who is the luckless, hapless (and apparently talentless) composer, and what was the opera?

It couldn't been Ferdinand Paer, who got in ahead of Beethoven with the Fidelio story, if Wiki is to be believed: 'His opera Leonora (1804) is based on the same story as Beethoven's Fidelio, first produced as Leonora the following year. Beethoven had a high opinion of Paer, once jesting that the funeral march in Achille was so fine he "would have to compose it".' But I can just see how this little anecdote could be twisted over time into the one at the top of the page. (I only know of Paer through a recording I have of an overture to an opera called Sargino, but if Beethoven liked him it's probably worth searching out more stuff by him.)

So fire away, learned TalkClassicalers: fame and a tip of the from me awaits.


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

^ hat.
Damn that urge to push the 'send' button...


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## GGluek (Dec 11, 2011)

Well, the anecdote (that he said it to Paer) is attributed to Berlioz, who was a terrific raconteur, but knew neither -- so I would have to question its veracity. It doesn't appear in any of his biographies that I'm aware of.

On a similar note, a number of years ago (ten or twelve) I noticed that in a new copy of a Yellow Pages phone directory, one of the recurring fillers they used to justify blank spaces in pages, was a ridiculously lofty quote that were listed as "Beethoven's last words" -- which were nothing of the sort. I forget exactly what they were, but Beethoven not only never said anything like them, his real last words, anecdotally, were "Too late," when he was informed on his death bed that someone had sent him several bottles of his favorite wine.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

GGluek, I think you are quite correct re last words. The quote in question though seems to be a fabrication (by Hector? No, he'd never do anything like that!) As you say, it is in no biographies or standard references that I know of.

I have a collection of Beethoven quotes; the opera quote would be in part 8 if it existed. Be careful of anything here attributed to Schindler though!

https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/beethoven-s-words


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2014)

kangxi said:


> ^ hat.
> Damn that urge to push the 'send' button...


There is an "edit" button to help you in those situations.


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## kangxi (Jan 24, 2014)

Jerome said:


> There is an "edit" button to help you in those situations.


True, but last time I tried it the original text didn't load so there was nothing for me to edit. It might be a browser bug - I was using Opera. I've temporarily switched to Firefox so maybe it'll work next time.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

No, Beethoven did not say that. The comment doesn't even make sense and sounds like it was fabricated by a musical illiterate; One sets a libretto, not an opera.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ahh!!! Thankfully, the definitive answer. We can all go home now.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

EdwardBast said:


> No, Beethoven did not say that. The comment doesn't even make sense and sounds like it was fabricated by a musical illiterate; One sets a libretto, not an opera.


If one approaches all literally, one misses all the jokes.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2014)

Did Beethoven really say it? I think not, but what a lovely put down in any case. 
It reminds me of French wit and a conversation I overheard one day between two guys:
French guy N° 1: Interesting shirt and colour, Pierre!
French guy N° 2: Thank you, Jean-Claude!
French guy N° 1: Where did you buy it?
French guy N° 2: At Galeries LaFayette. [Editor's note: a French department store]
French guy N° 1: I see. Do they also stock it for men?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

The way that the Beethoven saying may have originated & then got twisted reminds me of the distorted headlines in Robert Graves' First World War Autobiography:

"Recently I saw the following contemporary newspaper cuttings put in chronological sequence:

When the fall of Antwerp became known, the church bells were rung [i.e. at Cologne and elsewhere in Germany]. Kolnische Zeitung.

According to the Kolnische Zeitung, the clergy at Antwerp were compelled to ring church bells when the fortress was taken. - Le Matin.

According to what The Times has heard from Cologne, via Paris, the unfortunate Belgian priests who refused to ring the church bells when Antwerp was taken, have been sentenced to hard labour. - Corriere della Sera.

According to information which has reached the Corriere della Sera from Cologne, via London, it is confirmed that the barbaric conquerors of Antwerp punished the unfortunate Belgian priests for their heroic refusal to ring the church bells by hanging them as living clappers to the bells with their heads down. - Le Matin"


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2014)

Otherwise known as the Belgian Inquisition.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

PetrB said:


> If one approaches all literally, one misses all the jokes.


I got the intended joke. (Duh!) I was just pointing out why it doesn't work and isn't funny. The one about the shirt is funny.


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## BeethovensGhost (Dec 1, 2014)

According to Ernest Newman (A Musical Motley, 1919, p275), "Beethoven, meeting Paer after a performance of the latter's opera, Eleanora, said to him, 'I like your opera: I think I will set it to music' ... the result was Fidelio and, in the sequel, the Leonora No. 3 overture..." http://goo.gl/XbbilU


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

kangxi said:


> *A line attributed to Beethoven is this: "I liked your opera. I think I will set it to music." *It's even used as a sig file by at least one of our members (Rachmanijohn). It's all over the interwebs like herpes but without any attribution. I've tried to track the source down but I've had no luck Does anyone know if, or when & where, Beethoven said it? And if it's genuine, who is the luckless, hapless (and apparently talentless) composer, and what was the opera?





BeethovensGhost said:


> According to Ernest Newman (A Musical Motley, 1919, p275), "Beethoven, meeting Paer after a performance of the latter's opera, Eleanora, said to him, 'I like your opera: I think I will set it to music' ... the result was Fidelio and, in the sequel, the Leonora No. 3 overture..." http://goo.gl/XbbilU


I'm sure Newman was quite earnest in his _Musical Motley _comment, but the fact remains that the quotation under discussion was actually said by Beethoven to himself while staring half-drunk into a mirror. "I like your opera." The composer was, of course, referring to his own _Leonore_ which opened in a three-act version at Vienna's Theater an der Wien, on 20 November 1805. "I think I will set it to music." And ... several years, several revisions, and at least three overtures later, the opera opened in its current two act form as _Fidelio_, first performed at the Kärntnertortheater on 23 May 1814.

Of course, I _could_ be wrong here, but I got the story from my great grandmother whom I believe knew Beethoven personally ... or maybe it was _her_ great grandmother Eleanor who knew him. (I'll have to get back to checking Ancestry.com.)


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