# Female Composers?



## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Who is your favorite female composer, and what compositions do you like by a female composer?


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Helen Grime is rather good......






...and Sally Beamish


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Some threads to browse:
Female Composers
Women composers
Who is the Greatest Female Composers of All-Time?
Greatest female composer?
Game (nominations): Works by female composers


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

For some ~modern works: would suggest exploring 
- Kaija Saariaho, including the Flute Concerto L'Aile des Songes, 

- Sofia Gubaidulina, including the piano works and piano concerto played by Rauch, 

- Lucia Dlugoszewski's Fire Fragile Flight for orchestra, and 

- Ruth Crawford Seeger's String Quartet and piano works ...


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Farrenc - Piano Trios & Sextet

Linos Ensemble

Just a great Farrenc CD. :angel:


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

The only two lady composers that I really enjoy are Hildegard von Bingen and Clara Schumann. I respect Gubaidulina, although I do not listen to the kind of music she writes. The rest are second rate, although I may have missed someone. I have no opinion on why there are a lot of superb lady performers, especially on piano (and I like Rosalyn Tureck's Bach much more than Glen Gould's, Anne Fisher's Beethoven much more than Schnabel's and Derzhavina's Haydn much more than that of Buchbinder), while there is a seeming dearth of female composers. The currently professed interest seems more ideological than anything else.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Considering its age, the actual sounding of Hildegard's music is very much up to the performers. 

Composers like Gloria Coates, Unsuk Chin, Betsy Jolas, Elizabeth Maconchy, Saariaho, Bacewicz, Crawford Seeger Dlugoszewski and many others are generally highly regarded, and it might be you, who's under some ideological spell.

Some other, East-European / Russian heritage female composers include Ljubica Maric, Elena Firsova, Ustvolskaya, Kapralova, etc.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

surely Galina Ustvolskaya is the most powerful (the first symphony has the most extraordinary writing for two boys at its heart)? Shostakovich used to run his own works through her when completed. Most others worth listening to that I've come across, like Baczewicz or Gubaidulina are from Slavonic or other ex USSR countries. I like some of the Machonchy quartets and agree with a poster from a previous thread that Lili Boulanger might have gone on to be the greatest given another decade or two to live. 

My opinion of Amy Beach went up somewhat after hearing her enjoyable Gaelic symphony but I still see little point in resurrecting Fanny Mendelssohn and Clara Schumann, I'm afraid.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Gubaidulina, Chin and Saariaho would certainly make my top 10 living composers regardless of gender.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Mrs. H. H. Beach. There's a lot more than the symphony; a fine piano concerto, piano quintet and more excellent chamber music. The Mass and the opera Cabildo. I've been collecting and playing hew music since I first encountered it some 50 years ago.

And on the other side of the pond: Dame Ethel Smyth. As more of her music is performed and recorded we are learning what a major talent she was. The Wreckers is an excellent opera and should be put on far more often.

Grace Williams. So much excellent music, but the Second Symphony is my favorite work of hers.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Given the historic lack of opportunity and even obstacles for aspiring female composers, it's remarkable that any of them succeeded. 

I've enjoyed music by Hildegard, Leonarda, Duarte, Strozzi, Caccini, Paradis, Szymanowska, Farrenc, Mayer, Fanny Mendelssohn, Clara Schumann, Alice Smith, Carreño, Holmès, Chaminade, Bonis, Ethyl Smyth, Alma Mahler, Beach, Pejačević, Nadia and Lili Boulanger, Tailleferre, Higdon, Weir, Kats-Chernin, Beamish, and Auerbach.

My favourite pieces:
Tailleferre: Arabesque
Tailleferre: The ballade for Piano and Orchestra
Fanny Mendelssohn: String Quartet in E-flat Major
Dora Pejačević: Impromptu in B-flat major Op. 32b
Nadia Boulanger: 3 Pieces for Cello and Piano
Hildegard: O Euchari
Clara Schumann: 3 Romances Op. 22
Cécile Chaminade: Études de Concert Op. 35 "Automne"
Alma Mahler: 5 Lieder

I'm looking forward to listening to pieces from Clarke, Price, Bacewicz, Glanville-Hicks, Harrison, Ustvolskaya, Jolas, Gipps, Tower, Gubaidulina, Zwillich, Coates, Leon, Monk, Saariaho, Shaw, Ali-Zadeh, Tanaka, Pook, Ruehr, Rajaseker, Frances-Hoad, Harbach, Montgomery, and Esmail.

I need to check out Unsuk Chin too.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

There were very few women composers until quite recently but these days I am not sure I even notice if a composer is a woman or a man. I listen to (off the top of my head) Sophia Gubaidulina, Anna Clyne, Kaija Saariaho, Rebecca Saunders, Sally Beamish, Rebecca Clarke, Roxana Panufnik, Unsuk Chin and Ethel Smyth, and I listen to them because I like some (or all) of their music - not because they are women. There are probably others, too. Some of these are genuinely "top rank composers" but I am not sure there is one amongst them who is another Boulez, Carter or Britten. It is the same with women conductors: there are now a great many of them but until recently they were very rare. Several of the women currently conducting are excellent but, again, I am not sure we have yet had a female Bernstein, Karajan or Furtwangler.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Enthusiast said:


> There were very few women composers until quite recently but these days I am not sure I even notice if a composer is a woman or a man. I listen to (off the top of my head) Sophia Gubaidulina, Anna Clyne, Kaija Saariaho, Rebecca Saunders, Sally Beamish, Rebecca Clarke, Roxana Panufnik, Unsuk Chin and Ethel Smyth, and I listen to them because I like some (or all) of their music - not because they are women.


Yes. I like the old school method of referring to people by surname only, so that you don't immediately get a clue of their sex.

To give an example, if Piston is referred to as Piston, but Beach is referred to as Amy Beach, then I detect a whiff of condescension. Does little Amy really need to be patronised like that, whereas Piston is just Piston?


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ And then there are composers like Amy ... who sounds like a woman but it is Gilbert Amy (I had to look that up)!


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Pierre Henry can't be much misunderstood then, but Onute Narbutaite mostly remain mysterious ...


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Onute? Is she good?


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I think so, and I hear some Bruckner 2.0 in her 2nd Symphony. The vocal works are more folklore-like and pleasing, say like Sumera's ditto.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

One of the only female composer that has impressed me has been Lili Boulanger, but she died so young that we'll never know what her full potential may have been. She wrote in a highly personal idiom --- almost like a hybrid of Fauré and Debussy.

This is one of my favorite pieces from her and it's so poignantly beautiful (from what I've read she dictated the music to her sister Nadia as she was on her death bed):






I also love Grażyna Bacewicz, which, thankfully, is receiving more recognition nowadays.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

On Nadia Boulanger, I like her Fantaisie Variee for piano & orchestra.

In line with my earlier post objecting to first names, perhaps I should suggest references to Boulanger L and Boulanger N.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Eclectic Al said:


> Yes. I like the old school method of referring to people by surname only, so that you don't immediately get a clue of their sex.
> 
> To give an example, if Piston is referred to as Piston, but Beach is referred to as Amy Beach, then I detect a whiff of condescension. Does little Amy really need to be patronised like that, whereas Piston is just Piston?


Well. Higdon is referred to as Higdon on Hahn's recording of her violin concerto, together with "Tchaikovsky". I actually was a bit stunned to find myself somewhat liking her composition Loco when I first heard it live in a local concert. I am, unfortunately, one who thinks that classical music, regardless of the gender of the composer, died in 1920, although I am now beginning to discover, much to my consternation, that there is some (still _way way_ too little) classical music to enjoy from the 20th century, even in one case the 21st century.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

joen_cph said:


> and it might be you, who's under some ideological spell.


I certainly do not try to convert anyone, in contrast to certain others who seem to be all aflame.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

haziz said:


> Well. Higdon is referred to as Higdon on Hahn's recording of her violin concerto, together with "Tchaikovsky". I actually was a bit stunned to find myself somewhat liking her composition Loco when I first heard it live in a local concert. I am, unfortunately, one who thinks that classical music, regardless of the gender of the composer, died in 1920, although I am now beginning to discover, much to my consternation, that there is some (still _way way_ too little) classical music to enjoy from the 20th century, even in one case the 21st century.


I'll have to listen to this. There is precious little "classical" music that appeals to me from the last 50 years or so, so who knows?


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Chilham said:


> Given the historic lack of opportunity and even obstacles for aspiring female composers, it's remarkable that any of them succeeded.


A couple of Canadian composers of piano music I recommend:

- Jean Coulthard 
- Sophie-Carmen Eckhart-Gramatté ((Russian-Canadian: sonatas recorded by Marc-André Hamelin)


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Without trying to sound condescending in the, "When it comes to people, I don't see color" sort of way. I truly don't pay much attention to whether a composer is male or female. The music stands and falls on its own merit. ​


I guess I do have a bit of an advantage being a fan of mostly post 1950's up through contemporary classical music, where female composers are plentiful, and many compose music that fits well into my taste preferences.

Composers not to overlook:

Joan Tower
Thea Musgrave 
Unsuk Chin
Augusta Read Thomas
Kaija Saariaho
Cindy McTee
Jennifer Higdon
Ruth Zechlin
Rebecca Saunders


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

haziz said:


> Well. Higdon is referred to as Higdon on Hahn's recording of her violin concerto, together with "Tchaikovsky". I actually was a bit stunned to find myself somewhat liking her composition Loco when I first heard it live in a local concert. I am, unfortunately, one who thinks that classical music, regardless of the gender of the composer, died in 1920, although I am now beginning to discover, much to my consternation, that there is some (still _way way_ too little) classical music to enjoy from the 20th century, even in one case the 21st century.


I come from the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

For me, I have no interest (despite years of trying) in classical music from earlier than 1920, and I have a hard time keeping up with discovering all the great classical music from the post 1950's up through today.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

My favourite? I don't really have one. But I do like Barbara Strozzi, Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre, and Hildegard of Bingen. I have listened to Kassia and Francesca Caccini & liked what I heard but haven't heard much.


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

Lili Boulanger died way too young. What she did write is amazing.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

More often than not when citing modern, particularly contemporary composers, I say the full name. Regardless of gender.

*EDIT:* It's often necessary to use the full name to avoid confusion. William Schuman for example. Even though it has one less letter, simply saying Schuman is bound to be mistaken for Robert Schumann.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I will remain an advocate of the music of *Nancy Van de Vate*.

Van de Vate, born December 30, 1930, is an American-born composer living in Austria. She is one of the founders of the recording label Vienna Modern Masters which features music by contemporary composers, including her own.

Her music ranges from this sort of piece (which shares the universe, and the recording, with Penderecki's _Threnody_):






to this:






to this:






and this:






And a whole lot more.

I was so impressed when I heard the first couple Vienna Modern Masters releases, which included music by Van der Vate, that I set out to add the entire catalog of releases to my collection. And I have. Well over 100 discs.

Ms. Van de Vate once sent me a signed copy of her opera _Hamlet_, a stunning work. I actually received the surprise gift while I was in the middle of rehearsals of a production of the play I was directing. I cherish both the Shakespeare play and Nancy Van de Vate's opera version.

I wish her music was better known amongst the general public. I think it deserves to be.


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## strawa (Apr 1, 2020)

Vítězslava Kaprálová has a amazing Military Sinfonietta. As Lili Boulanger she died very young (25 years old).


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Eclectic Al said:


> I'll have to listen to this. There is precious little "classical" music that appeals to me from the last 50 years or so, so who knows?


I was referring to Higdon's "Loco" which is an 8 minute work. I am less enamored of her Violin Concerto, although I do not find it objectionable. I did quite enjoy a 2017 composition, a Cello Concerto by Lowell Liebermann, a singular event (the fact that I enjoyed a 21st century composition) that I had to post about it on TalkClassical that same night!

https://www.talkclassical.com/52393-i-listened-21st-century.html?highlight=21st+century+music+liked


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Sorry, there is one additional name that I really like, not only as a performer but also as a composer - the American cello player Nina Kotova. The rest stands - Hildegard von Bingen, Clara Schumann, and Gubaidulina - the latter respected but not listened to. I have checked some of the "female composer" names mentioned here. The problem, of course, not that they are ladies (I do hope all of them are ladies), but that they are modern. I do not share the view that all contemporary music is trash and am generally benevolent to people listening to it, as long as they do not get too aggressive (they often do). Still, it is, in my view, a niche genre of limited appeal. Its role was to provide experimental spice to real composers. It is a bit like haute couture and Prêt-à-Porter. No one sane would wear avant-garde haute couture, but it is an essential source of ideas to spice everyday wear. Unfortunately, after WWII the modernist music was artificially elevated (and financed) for ideological reasons. Fortunately, it has receded significantly, and is now more or less where it should be - a niche. I understand that some people are keen to keep the flame going, but it is a bit like being a monarchist in modern France - cute but irrelevant.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

advokat said:


> ... Still, it is, in my view, a niche genre of limited appeal. Its role was to provide experimental spice to real composers.....


Not sure I understand what the, "Niche", is and who the, "Real composers", are.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Chilham said:


> Not sure I understand what the, "Niche", is and who the, "Real composers", are.


No great science behind it. If I like a 20th century composer (Poulenc, Duruflé, Delius), he is a real composer of a universal apeal. If I do not, (e.g. Schoenberg, Walter Zimmermann, Webern, Berg) he is a niche experimentator of a limited apeal and not a real composer at all. Simple!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

advokat said:


> No great science behind it. If I like a 20th century composer (Poulenc, Duruflé, Delius), he is a real composer of a universal apeal. If I do not, (e.g. Schoenberg, Walter Zimmermann, Webern, Berg) he is a niche experimentator of a limited apeal and not a real composer at all. Simple!


This doesn't even make sense at all. It's one thing to just say "I don't like this or that composer" but to go so far to say that Schoenberg or Berg, for example, aren't 'real composers' shows great ignorance on your part. You don't have to like these composers music, but there's absolutely no need to tear them down just because their music isn't to your taste.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Neo Romanza said:


> This doesn't even make sense at all. ... shows great ignorance on your part.


 I get that. People normally resort to _ad hominem_ attacks when they no longer have anything material to say. But surely the lovers of Schoenberg and Webern must have some substantive arguments in their favour to deploy, before proceeding directly to the froth-at-the-mouth stage?


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

advokat said:


> I get that. People normally resort to _ad hominem_ attacks when they no longer have anything material to say. But surely the lovers of Schoenberg and Webern must have some substantive arguments in their favour to deploy, before proceeding directly to the froth-at-the-mouth stage?


My point was clearly stated. If you don't understand that the problem is with _you_ and _not_ with the composers' whose music you dislike, then there's no help for you at all. As I said, there's no need to drag a composer through the dirt just because you don't like their music.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

"Universal appeal" as we understand it now is market ideology, isn't it?


e) to expand on this, "popularity" is in itself an extra-musical reason for promoting music. Music with universal appeal is promoted because the appeal stands to make the promoter a lot of money, vis "butts-in-seats" programming. I don't really see an honest way to say this is a non-ideological way to promote music versus say, promoting local composers, preferentially programming new works, etc.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Neo Romanza said:


> My point was clearly stated. If you don't understand that the problem is with _you_ and _not_ with the composers' whose music you dislike, then there's no help for you at all. As I said, there's no need to drag a composer through the dirt just because you don't like their music.


Thank you very much for that, Neo Romanza. I was hoping for some such answer. I have a confession to make. The original post was a private experiment to satisfy my own curiosity. The term "real composer" was lifted from an earlier TC thread where lovers of modern music spoke disparagingly of Bach and other baroque composers and comparing them unfavourably with modern-era icons, who were "Real Composers" in their view ("dragging them through the dirt", in your felicitous phrase). No one argued otherwise, even those who loved Bach. What if a similar language (only milder) would be used in respect of Weberns and Schoenbergs? As I have suspected, a vicious personal attack ensued at once. That fully confirms my suspicion that at least for some of it followers, the modern music is not music at all, but a cult, a surrogate religion. Like Trotskyism. Thank you for taking part, albeit unwittingly, in my experiment, and I apologise if I hurt your feelings towards the objects of your adoration. To be frank, they are among the least irritating manifestations of ideological modernity, since they can be tuned out easily.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

This thread feels like I'm watching one match, and listening to the commentary from another.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Chilham said:


> This thread feels like I'm watching one match, and listening to the commentary from another.


Sounds contrapunctal. We aim to please.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

advokat said:


> Thank you very much for that, Neo Romanza. I was hoping for some such answer. I have a confession to make. The original post was a private experiment to satisfy my own curiosity. The term "real composer" was lifted from an earlier TC thread where lovers of modern music spoke disparagingly of Bach and other baroque composers and comparing them unfavourably with modern-era icons, who were "Real Composers" in their view ("dragging them through the dirt", in your felicitous phrase). No one argued otherwise, even those who loved Bach. What if a similar language (only milder) would be used in respect of Weberns and Schoenbergs? As I have suspected, a vicious personal attack ensued at once. That fully confirms my suspicion that at least for some of it followers, the modern music is not music at all, but a cult, a surrogate religion. Like Trotskyism. Thank you for taking part, albeit unwittingly, in my experiment, and I apologise if I hurt your feelings towards the objects of your adoration. To be frank, they are among the least irritating manifestations of ideological modernity, since they can be tuned out easily.


You didn't hurt my feelings. I could careless if you don't like a composer's music. What I had an issue with was the unnecessary mud-slinging on your part whether intentional or unintentional.


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## advokat (Aug 16, 2020)

Neo Romanza said:


> You didn't hurt my feelings. I could careless if you don't like a composer's music. What I had an issue with was the unnecessary mud-slinging on your part whether intentional or unintentional.


I have a distinct impression that in this thread all the mud was slung one way, and it happens to be from you to me, but never mind. Cheers.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Amy Beach
Rebecca Clarke
Ethel Smyth
Elizabeth Maconchy
Germaine Taillefaire (who was, in her prime and if I may say so, also a bit gorgeous)


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

PS Thea Musgrave as well


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

strawa said:


> Vítězslava Kaprálová has a amazing Military Sinfonietta. As Lili Boulanger she died very young (25 years old).


Yes, and a fine string quartet, piano pieces and songs. A wonderful talent, snuffed out at a tragically young age.

Probably my, favourite female composer.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

CnC Bartok said:


> Yes, and a fine string quartet, piano pieces and songs. A wonderful talent, snuffed out at a tragically young age.
> 
> Probably my, favourite female composer.


Since you and I seem to share some affinities with composers like Bartók and Stravinsky, what do you think of Bacewicz?


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Active Canadian women composers: Alexina Louie, Kelly-Marie Murphy, Alice Pui-Ying Ho, Heather Schmidt


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Neo Romanza said:


> Since you and I seem to share some affinities with composers like Bartók and Stravinsky, what do you think of Bacewicz?


She's fantastic! Having said that, I can hardly describe myself as an expert as I only know the quartets, a couple of violin concertos, and some string orchestra works. A pretty distinct voice I'd say.


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## strawa (Apr 1, 2020)

Maybe it fits here: Chiquinha Gonzaga. I mean, if we consider Ernesto Nazareth's, master of _maxixe_ (a kind of "brazilian tango"), as a classic, so she's in. Gonzaga lived from 1847 to 1935 in Rio, studied with Artur Napoleão and composed thousands of choros (also called the "brazilian polka"). Lots of miniature piano dances.








CnC Bartok said:


> Yes, and a fine string quartet, piano pieces and songs. A wonderful talent, snuffed out at a tragically young age.
> 
> Probably my, favourite female composer.


Nice! Still exploring, let's see what I find.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

CnC Bartok said:


> She's fantastic! Having said that, I can hardly describe myself as an expert as I only know the quartets, a couple of violin concertos, and some string orchestra works. A pretty distinct voice I'd say.


You've got to hear her _Piano Quintets_, the _Piano Concerto_ and _Piano Sonata No. 2_. I'd rank these as prime Bacewicz.


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## OMD (Feb 6, 2021)

Assuming there is anything resembling civilization in 50 years, I think Anna Clyne (who is in her early forties now) will be considered the best composer of her generation. She writes music that is both complex and immediately engaging. Her cello concerto "Dance", written for Inbal Segev, is stunning.






Two other contemporary composers I seldom see on female composer threads are Caroline Shaw and Missy Mazzoli, and I don't understand why.

Of 20th century composers, Ustvolskaya, Gubaidulina and Grazyna Bacewicz are probably the first ho could be called "great", which is to say they produced substantial bodies of excellent work. I would also put in a vote for Gloria Coates, who produced a bunch of brilliant symphonies and string quartets.

Rebecca Clarke might have been great in that sense, but she was born too early. Her piano trio and viola sonata are certainly evidence of genius.

Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn and Amy Beach, often cited as groundbreakers, wrote pretty pedestrian stuff for their times. Had they been men, we wouldn't know their names today.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Simon Moon said:


> Without trying to sound condescending in the, "When it comes to people, I don't see color" sort of way. I truly don't pay much attention to whether a composer is male or female. The music stands and falls on its own merit.
> 
> I guess I do have a bit of an advantage being a fan of mostly post 1950's up through contemporary classical music, where female composers are plentiful, and many compose music that fits well into my taste preferences.
> 
> ...


 I forgot to mention *Olga Neuwirth*.

I'm enjoying most of what I hear from her.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Neo Romanza said:


> You've got to hear her _Piano Quintets_, the _Piano Concerto_ and _Piano Sonata No. 2_. I'd rank these as prime Bacewicz.


Thanks, I'll look into those pieces. On the Naxos CD I have, there's a chamber orchestra version of one of the quintets, and I am afraid I tend to be a bit suspicious of such things (don't ask me why!), but the Chandos CD of the echt-pieces looks tempting.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

OMD said:


> Two other contemporary composers I seldom see on female composer threads are Caroline Shaw and Missy Mazzoli, and I don't understand why.


My impression is that there are few on TC whose tastes extend to what used to be called "indie classical".

I'm really enjoying Shaw's latest release, "Let The Soil Play Its Simple Part":


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Russia and the former Soviet Union produced a number of very fine female composers, including:

Nina Makarova (Khachaturian's wife). Check out her symphony.
Lydia Auster (Estonian). Check out her Piano Concerto on YouTube.
Ester Magi (Estonian)
Others well worth mentioning:

Florence Price
Amy Beach
Margaret Hubicki
Ruth Gipps
Ethel Smyth


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## strawa (Apr 1, 2020)

I once heard a piece by Žibuoklė Martinaitytė just because of the title, a word in portuguese. Sometimes these imprecise titles by modern composers work, sometimes they don't. I think the last was the case of _Saudade_. Not my kind of thing, but maybe someone here might like the suggestion.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

advokat said:


> Thank you very much for that, Neo Romanza. I was hoping for some such answer. I have a confession to make. The original post was a private experiment to satisfy my own curiosity. The term "real composer" was lifted from an earlier TC thread where lovers of modern music spoke disparagingly of Bach and other baroque composers and comparing them unfavourably with modern-era icons, who were "Real Composers" in their view ("dragging them through the dirt", in your felicitous phrase). No one argued otherwise, even those who loved Bach. What if a similar language (only milder) would be used in respect of Weberns and Schoenbergs? As I have suspected, a vicious personal attack ensued at once. That fully confirms my suspicion that at least for some of it followers, the modern music is not music at all, but a cult, a surrogate religion. Like Trotskyism. Thank you for taking part, albeit unwittingly, in my experiment, and I apologise if I hurt your feelings towards the objects of your adoration. To be frank, they are among the least irritating manifestations of ideological modernity, since they can be tuned out easily.


It would be interesting to have a link to that thread so that we can understand the context for the discussion you refer to. I think generally that the members who like contemporary and even merely modern music also enjoy quite a lot of earlier music - to me it seems essential to getting a real understanding of the new - so your report is a little surprising. Also, you ask how it would be received if people posted critiques and dismissals of modern music .... well, our pages are filled with such posts although (thankfully) disdain for the modern is much less common now than it used to be here.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I find it hard to choose a favourite female composer overall, as I don't know enough music by enough female composers to provide a wide enough field to choose from. I do love the songs of Pauline Viardot though, so pressed for a vote I'd have to nominate her.


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## damian101 (Aug 16, 2018)

There are a few female composers I listen to quite regularly: Zara Levina, Yoko Kanno, Yoko Shimomura


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Fanny Mendelssohn is today's Google Doodle.


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