# Best orchestral brass sections



## Gordontrek

I have no shame in admitting that I love, love, LOVE brass, because I'm a brass player myself (trumpet) and I hope to have an orchestral career one day. That said, I am a bit choosy in many of the recordings that I buy, especially if the recording features a piece with prominent brass. I thought I would share with you the top five orchestral brass sections that, in my opinion, are the best in history, and have repeatedly been my choices for recordings.

1. *Chicago Symphony,* esp. Fritz Reiner, Georg Solti, Daniel Barenboim years
Chicago simply has the most phenomenal brass section in the world, bar none. They are unrivalled in their sheer power, rhythic intensity, and clarity of tone. In my opinion their historical peak was in the Solti years, where they had Bud Herseth on trumpet, Dale Clevenger on horn, Jay Friedman on trombone, and Arnold Jacobs on tuba (later replaced by Gene Pokorny, who is just as good and is still their tuba to this day). All of those guys were the best on their instruments in their day, and it is arguable that their section alone put the Chicago Symphony on the map. Unfortunately, I feel that a lot of recordings, like CBS and some Decca recordings, are over-engineered and make the brass sound too shrill. There are a lot of good ones, though, especially the ones on DG.
Favorite recordings- Holst: The Planets w/James Levine, Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel w/Georg Solti, Mahler 5 w/Claudio Abbado, Mussorgsky- Pictures at an Exhibition w/Solti






2. *Montreal Symphony,* Charles Dutoit
I recently rediscovered Dutoit's Montreal recordings and found an absolutely stellar brass section. I would say that they and Chicago represent the two best in the world. I prefer Chicago for raw power and rhythmic intensity and Montreal for tone color and lyricism, though both have plenty of all these things. 
Favorite recordings- Tchaikovsky: Symphony 4, Holst: The Planets, Ravel: Bolero, La Valse, Une Barque Sur L'Ocean






3. *Cincinnati Symphony/Pops,* Erich Kunzel
You might not have been expecting this one, but Cincinnati has a seriously good brass section, and I'm surprise by how many recordings of theirs I've ended up choosing, especially from the Kunzel years. They are more on the raucous side when compared to other brass sections, but more often than not it works to perfection. Extremely crisp, confident, and accuracy on rhythm and articulation like you've never heard. They have a trumpet sound that's unlike any other orchestra I've heard in its uniqueness. It's very bright, brilliant and confident, sometimes too much so. The Cincinnati Pops recorded just about everything with Kunzel, from the standard classical canon to film music to swing and big band music. On all of it, they sound just superb. 
Favorite recordings- Shostakovich- Festive Overture, Copland- Fanfare for the Common Man/Rodeo, Dukas- fanfare from La Peri w/Cobos, Symphonic Star Trek (a compilation of Star Trek film music), Tchaikovsky- 1812 Overture, various film score recordings






4. *Berlin Philharmonic,* Karajan and present
I always have loved the European brass sound of the 20th century, and Karajan's BPO section epitomized it. Like Cincinnati, it is more rough and aggressive, but I have heard some soft and lyrical playing from the BPO that is astonishingly beautiful. Obviously, they have a superb dynamic range. Superb, confident low brass, and a horn section to die for.
Favorite recordings: Strauss: Eine Alpensinfonie w/Karajan, Tchaikovsky: Symphony 4, Cappricio Italien w/Karajan






5. *Royal Philharmonic,* esp. Andre Previn and Vernon Handley
The RPO's brass is similar in tone and articulation to Montreal's. I am particularly struck by their deep, powerful low brass sound. Give them better high brass, and you'd have a near perfect brass section. Their recordings also tend to be well-engineered, which helps. 
Favorite recordings- Holst: The Planets w/Previn and w/Handley, Ravel: Orchestra works w/Previn, Berlioz- Symphonie Fantastique w/Previn 





Honorable mentions- London Philharmonic, New York Philharmonic, Cleveland Orchestra, Royal Concertgebouw, London Symphony

If you have any favorite brass sections, please share them!


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## david johnson

Chicago, because I was trained in that style.
western hemisphere groups, in general
Gewandhaus Orchestra section can do very well.
Some of the French orchestras can lay it down, too.
LSO


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## SiegendesLicht

Thank you, Gordontrek, for the very interesting post. I love brass too, and mostly agree with your choices, especially the Karajan/BPO recording of Eine Alpensinfonie. And the Royal Concertgebouw - I am listening to their recording of the same Alpensinfonie with Bernard Haitink, and the brass parts are a delight (as are all other parts).


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## Becca

The Berlin Philharmonic horn section plays the finale to Mahler's 1st Symphony ... with an assist from the rest of the brass and orchestra...


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## Heck148

Chicago has the best brass, and has for years. Reiner really got it going ,tho the core was already there inmost sections. it flourished under Martinon and Solti....I heard Solti/CSO perform that legendary Mahler 5 in Carnegie Hall 3/70 - incredible - on a totally different level.
New York Philharmonic brass is very strong as well,and has a long glorious history.
The NYPO brass of the late 40s-50s was really special. Cleveland under Szell was very excellent as well. Philadelphia's always sounded better live than on recording, because Ormandy/CBS wanted to cultivate that string-heavy "Philadelphia sound" - brass and woodwinds recessed, strings pumped up and forward...
Toscanini's NBC had some great players as well - try any of the Respighi stuff, or Finlandia ['52] - outstanding!!

for European orchestra - London SO, esp during the 60s-70s,had outstanding personnel...I've always loved the Czech PO brass and woodwinds...different style,but really brilliant - the long-time prrincipal Trumpet M. Kejmar, was a great artist. so was Horn I, Z.Tylsar. 
Now the Russians!! :lol: that's a whole trip in itself!!


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## Pugg

Heck148 said:


> Chicago has the best brass, and has for years. Reiner really got it going ,tho the core was already there inmost sections. it flourished under Martinon and Solti....I heard Solti/CSO perform that legendary Mahler 5 in Carnegie Hall 3/70 - incredible - on a totally different level.
> New York Philharmonic brass is very strong as well,and has a long glorious history.
> The NYPO brass of the late 40s-50s was really special. Cleveland under Szell was very excellent as well. Philadelphia's always sounded better live than on recording, because Ormandy/CBS wanted to cultivate that string-heavy "Philadelphia sound" - brass and woodwinds recessed, strings pumped up and forward...
> Toscanini's NBC had some great players as well - try any of the Respighi stuff, or Finlandia ['52] - outstanding!!
> 
> for European orchestra - London SO, esp during the 60s-70s,had outstanding personnel...I've always loved the Czech PO brass and woodwinds...different style,but really brilliant - the long-time prrincipal Trumpet M. Kejmar, was a great artist. so was Horn I, Z.Tylsar.
> Now the Russians!! :lol: that's a whole trip in itself!!


I am sure you gonna tell us.


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## njk345

Are we sure Chicago still has the best brass section at the present moment? Back in the days of Solti, with Bud Herseth on trumpet, undeniably yes. But nowadays, I'd actually put in a vote for the New York Philharmonic. They recently nabbed Chicago's principal trumpet Chris Martin, and they have what I think is the most robust, clear-sounding low brass section in the country if not the world (Joe Alessi, Colin Williams, David Finlayson, George Curran, Alan Baer). Oh and their trumpets have pretty unusual chemistry from their shared Chicago background -- both Matt Muckey and Ethan Bensdorf studied at Northwestern, 1 year apart from each other, and Martin has taught there before.

Take a listen to some of their more recent brass heavy pieces -- for instance, their Sibelius 2 or Planets from last season -- and you can see how stellar they've become (no Phil Smith required).


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## Heck148

njk345 said:


> Are we sure Chicago still has the best brass section at the present moment?


I think so - I've heard them do some really heavy lifting recently, and the brass sounded superb, as always - Bruckner 8 & 9 Shostakovich 8, Shostakovich 5, Prokofieff 5...Bach b minor Mass, etc...They still have not filled Clevenger's seat on principal horn...Dan Gingrich [assoc I] has been covering it. The section sounds great - they never miss. even the Wagner tuba parts in Bruckner..



> They recently nabbed Chicago's principal trumpet Chris Martin,


Chris Martin is a fine trumpeter, very good sound..but he ain't Herseth [nobody is]. I wonder why he switched jobs?? Chicago has a higher pay scale....

New York Phil has always had great brass, over many decades. Always one of my favorites from the late 40s on - Vacchiano, Ware, Chambers, Pulis, Herman, Van Haney, Ostrander, Bell, Novotny - great names in orchestral brass playing. The horns got pretty messy during the 80s...but it seems to have been straightened out.


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## Gordontrek

njk345 said:


> Are we sure Chicago still has the best brass section at the present moment? Back in the days of Solti, with Bud Herseth on trumpet, undeniably yes.


To clarify, my post is mostly in a historical context, but can apply to today as well. As to whether Chicago still has the top brass section, I personally think so, though I would agree they have slightly declined with the retirement of big dogs like Dale Clevenger. But on the topic of low brass, I still think they're almost unrivalled. Jay Friedman and Gene Pokorny are still holding down the fort and until they retire I think that Chicago will continue to have the best low brass in the world. As for their trumpets, I was pretty confused by Chris Martin's departure myself. But if I'm not mistaken they still have Mark Ridenour, who is an unsung hero but among the best players in the country. They will probably hire another star but that remains to be seen.


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## Heck148

Gordontrek said:


> To clarify, my post is mostly in a historical context, but can apply to today as well. As to whether Chicago still has the top brass section, I personally think so


I agree...they sound awesome, still...superstars like Herseth and Clevenger are not easily replaced...but there are probably some candidates out there that are going to make a good run at it.



> But on the topic of low brass, I still think they're almost unrivalled. Jay Friedman and Gene Pokorny are still holding down the fort and until they retire I think that Chicago will continue to have the best low brass in the world.


Really incredible section - Friedman still sounds great [50+ years!!]. Mike Mulcahy, trombone II, is soloist caliber...I know he's been featured with the CSO as soloist, also, when they performed Mahler 7 with Barenboim, he played the big tenor horn solo in mvt I. wonderful, very polished, great solo work [he was former principal in Cologne Orchestra]. Charlie Vernon on Bass trombone is monstrously good, huge sound - he and Gene Pokorny put out incredible sound. it's a great section top to bottom.



> But if I'm not mistaken they still have Mark Ridenour, who is an unsung hero but among the best players in the country.


Great trumpets too, Ridenour, Hagstrom are terrific. There is a DVD with the CSO Brass performing a transcription of Strauss "Alpine Symphony" for brass ensemble. IIRC, Ridenour plays Trumpet I - incredible - he plays the flute, oboe violin parts - long, stratospheric lines...crazy...he sounds great on it.


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## hpowders

I know which was the worst when I was attending concerts-the NY Philharmonic. The French horn blurbs were a regular happening.

On the other hand, I would concur with the folks who say the Chicago Symphony brass-one of the best I've ever heard.


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## Templeton

Excellent post, Gordontrek and one that I am certainly no expert on. However, orchestras, whose horn/brass sections have impressed me have been the Staatskapelle Dresden, which is not surprising given their connection to Richard Strauss, the Vienna Philharmonic and finally, the LA Philharmonic, under Carlo Maria Giulini, in the late '70s and early '80s. The latter I only recently discovered, after purchasing a box set of Giulini recordings. I was blown away by some of the LA recordings, with the recording of Beethoven's 5th being superior to Kleiber's iconic VPO recording, imho, simply stunning.


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## Heck148

Templeton said:


> ....finally, the LA Philharmonic, under Carlo Maria Giulini, in the late '70s and early '80s. The latter I only recently discovered, after purchasing a box set of Giulini recordings. I was blown away by some of the LA recordings, with the recording of Beethoven's 5th being superior to Kleiber's iconic VPO recording, imho, simply stunning.


Walter's Columbia Symphony [West Coast] recordings feature the LA Phil...tho there may have been some excellent Hollywood studio musicians mixed in, as well. The brass playing is first-rate, very strong...Mehta's LAPO recordings from the 60s show off the brass very effectively.


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## Vaneyes

Recordings dating back to the advent of stereo is one thing, and current line-ups quite another. However, I will venture to say all tier one bands have more than respectable brass forces.


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## Becca

Templeton said:


> the LA Philharmonic, under Carlo Maria Giulini, in the late '70s and early '80s. The latter I only recently discovered, after purchasing a box set of Giulini recordings. I was blown away by some of the LA recordings, with the recording of Beethoven's 5th being superior to Kleiber's iconic VPO recording, imho, simply stunning.


Having attended many of the Giulini/LAPO concerts during his too short tenure, I can attest to it being a real high point of my concert-going.


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## Heck148

The move by trumpeter Chris Martin from CSO to NYPO is curious. It is interesting to see how many trumpeters went from the Chicago SO, playing with the Herseth section, to principal positions in other major orchestras:

Frank Kaderabek - to Philadelphia Orch
Phil Smith - to NYPO
George Vosburgh - to Pittsburgh SO
Charles Geyer - to Houston SO
Rudi Nashan - to Syracuse SO


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## Chiroptera

I have yet to hear Chicago's brass section in-person but in recordings they are BOOMing especially under Solti (and they still are)

In-concert:
I recently heard Berlin in-concert when they came to Boston and played Mahler's 7th. Amazing.


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## njk345

Ok, yeah I'll admit Chicago might still have the best all around brass section (especially if you take into account French horns). I heard Chris Martin in NY a few times recently and he's sounding terrific (Handel's Messiah, Copland's Quiet City, Dvorak 8, Tchaik 4)—I only wonder if he'll stay permanently, because I heard he's technically on a trial year and is still performing part-time with the CSO.


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## hpowders

Chicago Symphony.


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## Vasks

About ten years ago, I attended my first Chicago concert. The program opened with a lesser known Kodaly piece. The horns' first entrance occurred a few minutes into the piece. But when they came in, on a fortissimo 4-part chord, the sound was so stunning that my jaw surely dropped.


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## PVtrumpet

NY Phil may not be there quite yet....But I heard Chis Martin play Ligeti in a NY Phil open rehearsal (terrific!) and again with the full orchestra in open rehearsal and the brass noticeably sounded a bit more like the Chicago Herseth brass. Time will tell the full impact of Martin, but off to a wonderful start.


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## Becca

When I was recently in Chicago and attended a Strauss/Bruckner concert, my feeling was that the brass was to blatant. My preference is for a great section which blends in with the rest of the orchestra so...
Stefan Dohr, Fergus McWilliam, Stefan de Leval Jezierski and Sarah Willis 
Honorary mention to Klaus Wallendorf who just retired.


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## Heck148

Vasks said:


> The horns' first entrance occurred a few minutes into the piece. But when they came in, on a fortissimo 4-part chord, the sound was so stunning that my jaw surely dropped.


Years ago - early 70s - We heard CSO @ Carnegie Hall - performing Ein Heldenleben....great performance all-around...
one thing I remember so well - in the Battle scene climax - the entire horn section plays a passage that ascends in unison to a high "C" [concert F] - 
All nine horns nailed it perfectly - FFFFortissimo - incredible sound - I thought the roof of the hall would blow off!!


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## Gordontrek

Chiroptera said:


> I have yet to hear Chicago's brass section in-person but in recordings they are BOOMing especially under Solti (and they still are).


I have seen the CSO live twice- in 2013 I heard them play an all-Mozart program where the only brass players were two horns, so it was kind of disappointing even though one of them was Dale Clevenger. Featured two piano concertos performed by Mitsuko Uchida. 
The following year I saw them perform Tchaikovsky's Pathetique symphony. Saw ALL my idols including Chris Martin, Tage Larsen, Dale Clevenger, Jay Friedman, Mike Mulcahy, Gene Pokorny. Christoph von Dohnanyi was conducting. It was stellar and I'll never forget it.


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## Rhombic

I have to say -and it's down to personal preference- that I find the US school of horn players quite "brassy" as in bright, metallic and clear; this includes the instruments themselves that tend to favour these sounds.
I have always preferred, as a horn player, the German sounds. But since I can tell that this is a matter of personal taste, I know that the horn sections of Chicago, Philadelphia etc are marvellous, all of them highly skilled players and, after having the opportunity to attend a masterclass with Dale Clevenger (Chicago), I learnt a lot from his high level of expertise.


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## Heck148

Just heard 2 concerts by CSO...Rite of Spring and Petrushka....best live I've ever heard...orchestra is amazing....brass glorious...trumpets were superb...principal for both series was Tom Hooten...tptI..LAPO....who I believe is a candidate for the CSO job...great player...never missed..big sound...smooth technique...I hope CSO hires him...


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## Manxfeeder

Gordontrek said:


> 3. *Cincinnati Symphony/Pops,* Erich Kunzel
> You might not have been expecting this one, but Cincinnati has a seriously good brass section, and I'm surprise by how many recordings of theirs I've ended up choosing, especially from the Kunzel years.


I'm glad you mentioned them. A while ago I was looking for a recording of the Festive Overture, and nothing rang my chimes until I hit on Kunzel/Cincinnati. They hadn't been on my radar until then.


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## Heck148

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm glad you mentioned them. A while ago I was looking for a recording of the Festive Overture, and nothing rang my chimes until I hit on Kunzel/Cincinnati. They hadn't been on my radar until then.


Cincinnati is very good...the first trumpet for those recordings, I believe, was Phil Collins....I went to school with him...great player...really topnotch


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## Gordontrek

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm glad you mentioned them. A while ago I was looking for a recording of the Festive Overture, and nothing rang my chimes until I hit on Kunzel/Cincinnati. They hadn't been on my radar until then.


Indeed, that recording of Festive Overture (on the album Symphonic Spectacular) has yet to be matched by any other recording I've heard. I suggest you check out their Aaron Copland album (their Fanfare for the Common Man is absolutely jaw dropping) and their Tchaikovsky 1812 album for some of the best examples of their playing. The CPO under Kunzel was really a superb and overlooked orchestra.


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