# On Wind Instruments



## imgmail (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm trying to write music for orchestra. I know how to use strings, being a violist myself, but I haven't the slightest idea how I am to voice winds. These are the instruments I need help on:

Clarinets in B-flat, E-flat, and Bass
Wagner Tuba in B-flat + Tuba
Bass Trombone + Trombone
Tubular Bells
2 Harps???
Specifically:
Clarinets: I need to know how I am to split up a melody, harmony, etc, who is S/A/T/B
What the heck's a Wagner Tuba and how is it different from normal Tuba?
Is there a real orchestrational difference between Trombone + Bass Trombone?
How do you use Tubular Bells?
And what exactly am I supposed to do with two harps?


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

To the best of my knowledge...

1: E-flat is soprano, B-flat alto, "bass" is tenor
2: It's in a higher range.
3: The bass trombone is lower. That's it, really.
4: Sparingly.
5: Have them play different things, or for chromatic effects that would be difficult with one.

Other than that, be aware of the differing tone colors of various winds, as they are far less homogeneous than a string choir.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

1: E flat clarinet is strictly speaking the piccolo instrument of the clarinet family. The B flat is the soprano instrument.
But generally it's E flat - soprano, B flat (or A) clarinet - alto (although B flat clarinet usually have the melody), and bass clarinet - bass.

Usually, in a group of three clarinets, there is either one E flat and two B flats (SAA, although not really), or two B flats and one bass (SSB).

2: A Wagner tuba is a kind of French horn. It's in the tenor range and is played with a horn mouthpiece. Wagner tuba. Normal tuba.

3: Tenor trombones are (as the name implies) tenor instruments (usually two of these) and bass trombones are (also as the name implies) bass instruments. The instruments aren't really very different (the tenor trombone has one valve and the bass trombone usually has two. The boring (the diameter of the pipes) is bigger on the bass trombone), but the bass trombone has a facility for playing in the lowest register, and the tenor trombone usually plays in the higher registers. There is also a contrabass trombone, tuned an octave lower than an ordinary trombone, although they are rather rare.

4: Sparingly. Or preferably not at all ...

5: What Mahlerian said.


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## imgmail (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank you! Do you by any chance know of a good example of where two harps are used?


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## imgmail (Dec 12, 2012)

Thank you so much! Esp. the pictures.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Run, do not walk, and invest in a copy of Samuel Adler's 'the study of orchestration.' The book covers instrumental families by chapter, and goes in depth into the individual instruments. The book has many score examples in it, a supplementary booklet of other score samples, and a CD of those samples.

Wagner Tuba. If you have no idea what the thing is, why plan to compose for it? They are rare. If one is available it might be played by a regular orchestral member as their second instrument: if they alternate from their regular instrument to that tuba, the union scale for that player jumps to time + one half; if the Wagner Tuba is needed independently throughout the score an on-call outside player requiring one more full union scale fee will be needed. 
Determine,then
1.) if you really need one. 
2.) if you do need brass in this range, find one less rarely available which suits the tessitura of the part you will write, Euphonium, perhaps.

Harp is one of the craziest instruments to learn to write for - so much so that only a few highly competent composers write for it confidently without consulting with a professional player. Harps do arpeggios well, but are limited in their chromaticism - rather like a zither - and key changes and chromatics (very limited in the latter) are achieved by the shifting of pedals.

Tubular bells are played with two mallets, have a sustain pedal, are hung on their rack in a keyboard format, can play fairly rapid passages, but are most often used to punctuate a sonority or literally refer to foundry bells in a church tower, or such. You can look up their range (orchestral sets are standard). Yes, sparingly....

"Voicing" harmony is dependent upon your familiarity with the instruments. Familiarity with the instruments often directs how and what you write for them. You have not only a catch 22 situation, but have put even that as the cart before the horse -- determing these things after the fact of having written the composition. There are as many options as their are combinations, part of any composer's "palette," and every painter mixes a slightly different shade of the same color.

Wishing you the best of luck, because I think you are really going to nee it  Your having asked these questions means you are learning while you are trying to (it is to be hoped 'successfully') orchestrate a piece for the large late romantic era orchestra... if you don't want it to sound arbitrary or 'grafted on.' you have quite a daunting task lies ahead of you.

The most ideal answers to many of your current questions and those which will come up through this task come from actual instrumentalists. 

"Ask a player" should be your new mantra


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## imgmail (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah . . . I can sort of handle a Classical Orchestra. I'm working up slowly from there. Thank you for your suggestions and comments - I am sure the Adler book will be helpful.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

What PetrB said. Adler's book will be very helpful to you. I'd also recommend checking out this YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrchestrationOnline/videos?view=0&flow=grid

Once you've completed the Adler book, this one may be of interest to you too (Hector Berlioz's treatise on orchestration, edited by Richard Strauss): http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/11615


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

imgmail said:


> Thank you! Do you by any chance know of a good example of where two harps are used?


There are two harps in Mahler 2, I think. And in some other Mahler symphonies. Wagner uses four harps for The Ring, as does Schönberg in Pelléas et Mélisande.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

You really don't have to worry much about the Wagner tuba, since it's not used in too many works, and almost always with very large orchestras. Basicxally, it's a euphonium-like instrument which uses a French horn mouthpiece .
Wagner was the first composer to use them . In the Ring cycle, they alternate periodically with horns 5-8 out of the 8 horns used in the Ring . Later, Bruckner, Richard Strauss , Schonberg and a few other composers used them .


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

If you are using a large orchestra you can use the Wagner tuba to extend the range of the horn section down about an octave. There are some who say that the Wagner tuba has a darker sound than the horns, but I can tell no difference and i play the horn.

Alot of more recent scores, say from 1880 on use two harps, often in unison just to be heard.

I would suggest you take a look at some scores. Scherazade by Rimsky-Korsakov and Rite of Spring are a couple good ones for a full size orchestra.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

drpraetorus said:


> If you are using a large orchestra you can use the Wagner tuba to extend the range of the horn section down about an octave. There are some who say that the Wagner tuba has a darker sound than the horns, but I can tell no difference and i play the horn.
> 
> Alot of more recent scores, say from 1880 on use two harps, often in unison just to be heard.
> 
> I would suggest you take a look at some scores. Scherazade by Rimsky-Korsakov and Rite of Spring are a couple good ones for a full size orchestra.


Rite doesn't use a full size orchestra. The orchestra for Rite is the Extra Large Family Size orchestra. 8 horns, 5 trumpets + bass trumpet, FIVE freaking bassoons, five clarinets and a humongous percussion section are usually not used in a normal-sized, Romantic orchestra.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I think the score to Rite is one of the most fascinating scores ever written and it makes for terrific reading material. It just does not utilise what one might call a "normal sized" orchestra.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aksel said:


> Rite doesn't use a full size orchestra. The orchestra for Rite is the Extra Large Family Size orchestra. 8 horns, 5 trumpets + bass trumpet, FIVE freaking bassoons, five clarinets and a humongous percussion section are usually not used in a normal-sized, Romantic orchestra.


as in two full sets of tympani, one player per


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## drpraetorus (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorry for confusion. Rite is for seeing how Stravinsky handles the instruments. It is indeed the Family Size orchestra. Oddly enough, Shostakovich did not think much of Stravinskys orchestration. Bolero is another score that is well worth a bit of study. You may want to look through the Grand Canyon Suite. As a piece of music I cannot recommend it, but the orchestration is excellent. Ferde Grofe was Gershwins orchestrator. He is responsible for Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris as well.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

drpraetorus said:


> Sorry for confusion. Rite is for seeing how Stravinsky handles the instruments. It is indeed the Family Size orchestra. Oddly enough, Shostakovich did not think much of Stravinskys orchestration. Bolero is another score that is well worth a bit of study. You may want to look through the Grand Canyon Suite. As a piece of music I cannot recommend it, but the orchestration is excellent. Ferde Grofe was Gershwins orchestrator. He is responsible for Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris as well.


I would say Ravel in general, especially pieces like L'enfant et les sortileges, Ma mere l'oye and Daphnis and Chloë. His orchestration is truly magnificent, and I would think him very valuable for figuring out how to orchestrate woodwinds.


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