# Older, lesser-known performances of well-known works



## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Here's something I've been pondering on lately. 

What if there were some recordings made decades ago (I'm thinking pre-1960) of well known "standards" that are remarkable and highly individual performances of those works that deserve to be better known?

Moreover, what if those recordings were made by conductors that maybe never made it or are now largely forgotten and possibly (if not exclusively) were made with orchestras that might be considered "second string"?

As I have discovered a few, it seems highly likely that there are a significant number of such recordings out there which never received the promotion they deserved, simply caught the critics on a bad day or maybe are much more acceptable to modern tastes than those at the time they were made. Although this can only ever be a matter of personal taste and thus purely subjective, I am interested to learn of more so all suggestions will be gratefully received.

I'll start things off.


Bruckner - Symphony 7 - Hans Rosbaud / Südwestfunk Orchester Baden-Baden / 1959

Mahler - Symphony 5 - Rudolf Schwarz / London Symphony Orchestra / 1958

Mussorgsky - Pictures At An Exhibition (orch. Ravel) - Artur Rodzinski / New York Philharmonic Orchestra / 1945

Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade - Argeo Quadri / Wiener Staatsopernorchester / 1953

Sibelius - Symphony 2 - Basil Cameron / London Philharmonic Orchestra / 1947

Stravinsky - The Firebird - Eugen Szenkar / RIAS Symphonie Orchester Berlin / 1953


Apologies for this thread being a little "niche". :lol:


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

this is a huge topic....so many possibilities. recording companies like RCA and Columbia were very active by the 30s and 40s. 
I'll name just 3 to start, wonderful performances in very good sound-

-*Shostakovich Sym #9, Efrem Kurtz/NYPO, 1947*- still my favorite recording of the work, some stunning solo work by the great late 40s NYPO
-*Shostakovich Sym #6, Reiner/PittsburghSO, 1945* - wonderful, lively performance, dark, perky, rousing, as needed, good sound!! 
-*Mahler Sym #4 Walter/NYPO 1945*...a real classic in very good sound, still one of my faves....great woodwind playing..


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## Boston Charlie (Dec 6, 2017)

One of my first Shostakovich recordings that I purchased on LP as a teenager was the "Age of Gold" and "Symphony #1" by Howard Mitchell and the National Symphony Orchestra (on the Westminster label). Though the recording was from 1950s, I bought it "new" in the 1980s from a local music store. I guess it had been sitting on the shelf for about 30 years before I bought it, and later I upgraded to a CD recording where it's now available on a different label. I've no idea who Howard Mitchell was and why he never reached much prominence as a conductor, but I really liked that recording. 

On a different note, is the Mahler cycle by Maurice Abravanel and the Utah Symphony Orchestra from the 1960s released on the "Vanguard" label. While we rightly give credit for all Bernstein did to bring Mahler to the fore, Abravanel's Mahler cycle (that was recorded around the same period as Bernstein's first Mahler cycle) is very fine, if not somewhat more restrained. Abravanel took Mahler from Vienna to the heart of the American West and Mormon country, and produced something quite nice.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Heck148 said:


> -*Shostakovich Sym #9, Efrem Kurtz/NYPO, 1947*- still my favorite recording of the work, some stunning solo work by the great late 40s NYPO
> -*Shostakovich Sym #6, Reiner/PittsburghSO, 1945* - wonderful, lively performance, dark, perky, rousing, as needed, good sound!!
> -*Mahler Sym #4 Walter/NYPO 1945*...a real classic in very good sound, still one of my faves....great woodwind playing..


I'm working on my appreciation of Shostakovich's symphonies right now, I've concluded that I need to pay more attention and give them more time. However, so far, the two recordings that have caught my interest most are the following:

Symphony 5 - Artur Rodzinski / Cleveland Orchestra / 1942

Symphony 7 - Arturo Toscanini / NBC Symphony Orchestra / 1942

I must admit that I don't know enough about Shostakovich's work to conclude whether or not these are likely to be widely considered as good performances but they seem to work for me.

Thanks also for the Mahler Symphony 4 recommendation, I've heard Walter conduct Mahler's Symphony 1 with the NYPO and that was very good. However, my favourite Mahler 1st right now is Hermann Scherchen / London Philharmonic Orchestra / 1954.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

At first glance I thought, this is too easy - there are many great recordings from earlier times that leave most modern performances in the dust. Then I realized that you're looking specifically for lesser-known performers. So no Toscanini, Walter, Reiner. Here are some of my favorites from yesteryear:

Dvorak - New World Symphony. Oswald Kabasta, conductor. Sadly there are few recordings of Kabasta. Almost everything he did record is top-notch. A Nazi sympathizer, he didn't help his own legacy.

Beethoven - the symphonies. Carl Schuricht with a Paris orchestra on EMI. You want tradition with a capital T - here it is. Amazingly alert, vital and thrilling playing.

Tchaikovsky - The Nutcracker. Artur Rodzinski with London Phil. Last seen on Westminster. This is exactly how the score should be played. Tempos are perfect. It just sounds so "right". There is some orchestral sloppiness no doubt due to severely short rehearsal time and a couple of cuts near the end are taken. This is Tchaikovsky from a conductor who really knew his business.

Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade. Eugene Goosens and the London Symphony on Everest. Early 60's. What a sleeper this is. Goosens isn't showing off, just playing the beautiful score as written - and it's thrilling, too. No cuts. No tampering with orchestration. Tempos perfectly judged. Everything seems perfect. Sound is damned good, too. I love this music and have owned dozens of recordings over the years and I still come back to this one - it's the best ever done. Interestingly, the first digital version that finally was worthy of the score was on Telarc with Charles Mackerras also conducting the London Symphony.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Great suggestions, thanks. All four of the conductors you've named are criminally overlooked today and I've heard great performances by all of them, although not the specific ones you've mentioned. I'll be sure to seek them out.


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## Robert Gamble (Dec 18, 2016)

Not quite sure this qualifies, but I'm pretty sure that Erich Kleiber is less known that his son, and I like his Beethoven's 5th symphony better than Carlos's "classic".






A CD of this paired with his equally magnificent 3rd is available:


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I would agree just about anything by Erich Kleiber supercedes anything done by his son.

Continuing to confirm everything old is new again, Felix Weingarterner's Beethoven symphonies, once available on Historical Naxos, are eerily similar to the way today's period practitioners perform them...only they were made in the 1930s.

Beethoven Symphony 9 by Richard Hickox and London Symphony from the 1980s is not particularly "old" but one of the first that used an orchestra the size the composer would have known.

Stravinksy Symphony of Psalms and Symphony in Three Movements with Columbia and New York symphonies on Columbia Masterworks ML 4129 (1947), miles ahead of his later stereo recordings.

Same for Sibelius Lemminkainen Suite by Ormandy/Philadelphia on Columbia ML 4672 (about 1952) with passion the latter stereo remake omitted.

The Music of Eric Satie: The Velvet Gentleman (1972), never reintroduced on CD.

London STS-15142 from the 1960s, St. Saens Violin Concerto No. 3 w/Paganini-Kreisler version of the composer's Violin Concerto No. 1 played by Alfredo Campoli.

Respighi Fountains Of Rome and Debussy Jeux by Victor de Sabata and Orchestra of the Augusteo, Rome on RCA Victor (about 1948) and other labels. Was briefly reintroduced on CD by Testament at one tme.

Borodin Piano Quintet in C minor/Mendelssohn Octet in D by Vienna Octet (London CS 6636 from the 1960s) by far the best rendering ever of the sentimental Borodin piece.

Ibert Escales by Stokowski and "his" orchestra (members of N.Y. Philharmonic) on 10-inch RCA LM-151 (1950) with other short pieces. Stokowski also recorded Debussy's three Nocturnes and the Children's Corner Suites on similar 10-inch records about the same time in performances twice as good as his later stereo remakes. Critics of the time said he used 'echo chambers' to enhance the sound.

Elgar Falstaff from Adrian Boult and the "Philharmonc Promenade" Orchestra from 1958 on Westminster and other labels, again far ahead of his stereo remake. He also recorded Holst's The Planets about the same time that put you at about his spot on the podium in terms of sound. His legendary early Vaughan Williams symphony recordings in mono are, again, much better than the stereo remakes.

Ibert Escales and Les Amours de Jupiter with Paris Opera Orchestra conducted by the composer on Capitol and other labels from the 1950s.

Ibert Suite Symphonique "Paris" mated to Rieti Madriglae by the MGM Orchestra conducted by Arthur Winograd, one of the greatest conductors no one today knows. See if you can find his delightful renderings of Mozart's Serenades Nos. 11 and 12 from way back when.

Mozart Sinfonia Concertantes K. 364 and K. 297b by unknown Viennese players on Vox PL 7329 made and released during the 1950s, full-blooded and "manly" Mozart unlike what we hear today.

Handel Israel In Egypt (abridged) from Maurice Abravanel, Utah Symphony Orchestra and University of Utah choruses on ABC Muisc Guild two-LP set released 1958.

Berg Lulu suite/Schoenberg Theme & Variations/Webern Im Sommerwind & Three Pieces for Orchestra from Ormandy and Philadelphia on CBS Masterworks (1963.) Only one of these pieces was reintroduced digitally and two of them were recording premieres in USA.


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## staxomega (Oct 17, 2011)

Mahler Symphony 2, Oskar Fried (1915)
Pictures at an Exhibition, Moiseiwitsch

These are all off the top of my head and what I listened to recently. Not sure if some of them would be considered unknown, ie Moiseiwitsch.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I'd add most of Václav Talich's recorded legacy, most of Karel Sejna's (try his early '50s Dvorak!) and countless recordings by Karel Ancerl.

There's a particularly moving Smetana Má Vlast From Talich, live in Prague, June 1939, not long after the Germans had invaded Czechoslovakia.

Not sure how unknown these might be, though.....


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

larold said:


> Continuing to confirm everything old is new again, Felix Weingarterner's Beethoven symphonies, once available on Historical Naxos, are eerily similar to the way today's period practitioners perform them...only they were made in the 1930s.


I thought exactly the same thing, although Weingartner could plausibly have heard them performed within 50 years of Beethoven's death so I imagine his renditions are fairly authentic.

Thanks very much for your recommendations, a lot of stuff to look out for there. I'm very fond of the Borodin Piano Quintet in particular and have never heard the performance you refer to, so that's just gone to the top of my wish list.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

staxomega said:


> Mahler Symphony 2, Oskar Fried


I have this and agree that it deserves to be better known. The orchestra is much smaller to facilitate the acoustic recording process but it gives the work a very fresh feel, rather like Gustav Holst's 1923 recording of "The Planets" with at least a few members of the London Symphony Orchestra. I really like Fried's conducting, his 1928 "Scheherazade" with the Berliner Philharmoniker is very impressive.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Robert Pickett said:


> I'd add most of Václav Talich's recorded legacy, most of Karel Sejna's (try his early '50s Dvorak!) and countless recordings by Karel Ancerl.
> 
> There's a particularly moving Smetana Má Vlast From Talich, live in Prague, June 1939, not long after the Germans had invaded Czechoslovakia.
> 
> Not sure how unknown these might be, though.....


I like Karel Ancerl very much. Talich is a conductor I'm trying to find more recordings of. You're not the first person who's recommended the live 1939 "Ma Vlast" to me, need to try and find a copy. I have not heard of Karel Sejna, will also seek him out.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Robert Gamble said:


> Not quite sure this qualifies, but I'm pretty sure that Erich Kleiber is less known that his son, and I like his Beethoven's 5th symphony better than Carlos's "classic".


Erich Kleiber was a great conductor, I have a live 1953 recording of him performing Beethoven's 6th with the Munchner Philharmoniker, a wonderful performance. I need to explore his other Beethoven more. He did a fantastic Mozart "Prague" with the Wiener Philharmoniker in 1929 as well.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Chill - for Talich And Šejna you need to raid the Supraphon catalogue! Karel Sejna's best recordings would include a supreme Martinu Double Concerto, some Dvorak (a great No.5, and ditto the Legends), and some very fine Smetana, Suk And Novák.
I hope you aren't allergic to indifferent 1950s sound quality, though....
If there is one Talich recording to get, I'd go for the Suk Asrael Symphony.Heart -wrenching.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Robert Pickett said:


> Chill - for Talich And Šejna you need to raid the Supraphon catalogue! Karel Sejna's best recordings would include a supreme Martinu Double Concerto, some Dvorak (a great No.5, and ditto the Legends), and some very fine Smetana, Suk And Novák.
> I hope you aren't allergic to indifferent 1950s sound quality, though....
> If there is one Talich recording to get, I'd go for the Suk Asrael Symphony.Heart -wrenching.


Thanks again, I'll see if I can find them. Indifferent 50s sound quality is fine with me. The performance is what matters.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> At first glance I thought, this is too easy - there are many great recordings from earlier times that leave most modern performances in the dust. Then I realized that you're looking specifically for lesser-known performers. So no Toscanini, Walter, Reiner. Here are some of my favorites from yesteryear:
> 
> Dvorak - New World Symphony. Oswald Kabasta, conductor. Sadly there are few recordings of Kabasta. Almost everything he did record is top-notch. A Nazi sympathizer, he didn't help his own legacy.
> 
> ...


Until told otherwise, I'm going to assume that, in Scheherazade, "showing off" means Karajan/Berlin. If so, how right you are!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

larold said:


> Continuing to confirm everything old is new again, Felix Weingarterner's Beethoven symphonies, once available on Historical Naxos, are eerily similar to the way today's period practitioners perform them...only they were made in the 1930s.


Weingartner, along with Toscanini, was a amain proponent of the literalist school of conducting - as in - go back to the score as the ultimate authority....a distinct change from the Wagner, Furtwangler, Mengelberg, etc style of Romanticism.

Weingartner's performances are quite refreshing, straight ahead, unmannered and very clear, with plenty of lyricism and expression...like most conductors, tho [including Toscanini] - he was not adverse to re-touching certain orchestrations, updating or adding/subtracting to accommodate the capabilities of contemporary instruments.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> Rimsky-Korsakov - Scheherazade. Eugene Goosens and the London Symphony on Everest. Early 60's. What a sleeper this is. Goosens isn't showing off, just playing the beautiful score as written - and it's thrilling, too. No cuts. No tampering with orchestration. Tempos perfectly judged. Everything seems perfect. Sound is damned good, too. I love this music and have owned dozens of recordings over the years and I still come back to this one - it's the best ever done. Interestingly, the first digital version that finally was worthy of the score was on Telarc with Charles Mackerras also conducting the London Symphony.


This is available as a download on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsa...msky-korsakov+-+scheherazade.+eugene+goossens









_"Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade (Transferred from the Original Everest Records Master Tapes)
London Symphony Orchestra and Sir Eugene Goossens
January 1, 1959"_

Transferred from original tape has me interested.


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## Oldhoosierdude (May 29, 2016)

I will go ahead and mention:

*Vivaldi 4 Seasons by I Solisti di Zagreb, Antonio Janigro & Jan Tomosow.*

A forgotten 1958 recording that is one of the best I have heard. One of the first recordings of the work after its discovery in the 1940's. Rich sound, played with beauty and precision. I had never heard of this recording and did a little research. It was highly thought of back then and received glowing reviews. Hard to find on CD but it's out there. My copy is from the $.99 big box download on Amazon, Classics Select, or Google Play store.









https://www.classicselect.com/colle...-downloadable-boxed-set?variant=4556074188830


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