# Round 2: Porgi Amor. Jessye Norman vs. Eleanor Steber



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Mozart: Le nozze di Figaro, K.492 / Act 2 - "Porgi amor" · Jessye Norman · BBC Symphony Orchestra · Sir Colin Davis 




Porgi amor qualche ristoro (Le nozze di Figaro) · Eleanor Steber


----------



## damianjb1 (Jan 1, 2016)

Eleanor Steber was a great great great singer. Especially in Mozart.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

This one is so interesting because I am being pitted against a richer, fuller sound vs. a more tender almost tearful rendering from a more smooth delicate sound. Both are good in their own ways and it becomes purely subjective to decide.
MIne is Steber -- but it is close.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> This one is so interesting because I am being pitted against a richer, fuller sound vs. a more tender almost tearful rendering from a more smooth delicate sound. Both are good in their own ways and it becomes purely subjective to decide.
> MIne is Steber -- but it is close.


In these two and the next selections I predict a lot of the decisions will be close as all are really really wonderful.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

They are very similar. There was a moment, when the voice of Jessie Norman had an unpleasant shake to my ears. But overall, the colour felt prettier. So I will vote for her.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I feel Steber is a more natural Mozartean than the grand Norman, or is it just an impression? Also, Steber is able to float the last few high notes, a good thing.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

As goes Nina and MAS, so goes Shaughnessy - Steber...


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I prefer Steber's purer legato line, the voice perfectly poised and firm. All in all she seems a much more apt Mozart singer to me. 

Norman is beautiful but not quite as firm. Nor am I sure it's quite the right voice for the role. Steber for me.


----------



## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Steber was an excellent Mozartian, Norman is good here but Steber is wonderful.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

As my Dad would say, Bravo Mozart! This music is just the top of the mountain to me and how splendid can two singers be? I played Steber first to give Jessye an assist....yeah!!...like she needs it! I always thought of her as an artist without a defining area of expertise and even though I knew it would be beautiful I didn't expect this level. They both sounded perfect without any need to be careful. Steber a tad more reserved in expression which for me, obviously, works! Jessye adding that slightly larger wistfulness which for me, obviously, works. I shouldn't vote but I hate not voting so that extra degree of color in Jessye's rendition, simply due to recording advances I'm sure, make her my choice!


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> As my Dad would say, Bravo Mozart! This music is just the top of the mountain to me
> ...


Why ? How come ?
Why doesn't this work for me ? Long-term ?

As you have already noticed, our perception of the singers is similar. I put the music on, forgot who is singing, and suddenly started wondering who has a voice this pretty.
But the aria itself ? ...


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

It was difficult. I could say about both singers they sang it wonderfully. I like them both much. But I voted for Jessy Norman. 
The idea of her singing Mozart bears an interest mixed with some disbelief: what such a powerful, heroic voice could do in this subtle music, in the world of HIP and separation of "lighter" and "heavier" repertoire. But I didn't hear in her singing any hint on a tired, slow-moving Puccini-style soprano. Only beauty and pleasure.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> It was difficult. I could say about both singers they sang it wonderfully. I like them both much. But I voted for Jessy Norman.
> The idea of her singing Mozart bears an interest mixed with some disbelief: what such a powerful, heroic voice could do in this subtle music, in the world of HIP and separation of "lighter" and "heavier" repertoire. But I didn't hear in her singing any hint on a tired, slow-moving Puccini-style soprano. Only beauty and pleasure.


Love your description but what is HIP. Are you talking about Hip Hop? LOL


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Love your description but what is HIP. Are you talking about Hip Hop? LOL


Historically informed performances, not hips. 😁


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Historically informed performances, not hips. 😁


You are Russian but you know the correct jargon and I don't LOL. Thanks for educating me


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

I'm still capable to learn at my age. 😆


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BBSVK said:


> Why ? How come ?
> Why doesn't this work for me ? Long-term ?
> 
> As you have already noticed, our perception of the singers is similar. I put the music on, forgot who is singing, and suddenly started wondering who has a voice this pretty.
> But the aria itself ? ...


That's easy...we discuss and explain and analyze what we love on this forum so much that we can lose sight of the absolute subjectivity of the arts! The reason for the preference is, at the final measure, impossible to define.

I just went back to check and was glad to see that I did include the all important..."to me"! And to be honest, my take is that when we are all entering our initial review of a singer or piece of music, we are absolved of the need to say that.......I believe it's assumed in a review. But subjectivity is King. When you want to love a work of art, and it just doesn't happen, no analysis in the world can be counted on to explain why. It might be discerned on occasion but not reliably.

I do agree that sharing views can open eyes to elements not seen before and I just had a dramatic occurence of that in asking for what people see in Peter Grimes.Despite not liking it, I had remained curious, I guess like you! People shared and I got a wonderful night out of it. I was moved greatly by what I thought was a fantastic performance of the title role and i got a new opera to love.

But I can't think of what I'd say about a piece as simple as Porgi Amor. I love the Countess and feel her heartbreak has been expressed as beautifully as anyone's ever has. Can't imagine that will do it.

If you've tried and it just aint happening, I'd guess this is one to leave behind and find something else. I love big, heart-tugging late romantic symphonic adagios. Mahlers fifth....Mahlers Fifth...oy veh if I hear one more person rhapsodize over the adagio in Mahlers Fifth. And if its happened once, its happened a dozen times....I give another listen...."Scott what are you talking about this is beautiful"....3 minutes later I'm wondering if I left the dog out! I've heard rumors there are a few other pieces of good music to choose from on this forum!!!


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> That's easy...we discuss and explain and analyze what we love on this forum so much that we can lose sight of the absolute subjectivity of the arts! The reason for the preference is, at the final measure, impossible to define.
> 
> I just went back to check and was glad to see that I did include the all important..."to me"! And to be honest, my take is that when we are all entering our initial review of a singer or piece of music, we are absolved of the need to say that.......I believe it's assumed in a review. But subjectivity is King. When you want to love a work of art, and it just doesn't happen, no analysis in the world can be counted on to explain why. It might be discerned on occasion but not reliably.
> 
> ...


It's close to what Lawrence Durrell wrote in _Alexandria Quartet_. The perception of art depends on waves interference, whether they do match or not.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ColdGenius said:


> It's close to what Lawrence Durrell wrote in _Alexandria Quartet_. The perception of art depends on waves interference, whether they do match or not.


this doesn’t exactly relate to The topic but it’s a mini-twilight zone moment! I’ve never heard of Lawrence Durrell... literally this past week my wife and I gave the TV show the Durrells in Corfu a try.... we were about to give up and read one detail which made us go, “maybe watch a few more “...then your post🤔😉... I hadn’t the slightest idea he was a real writer!!!.....we obviously need to go at least a little further! Maybe some waves are about to match👍😁🤓!


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ScottK said:


> this doesn’t exactly relate to The topic but it’s a mini-twilight zone moment! I’ve never heard of Lawrence Durrell... literally this past week my wife and I gave the TV show the Durrells in Corfu a try.... we were about to give up and read one detail which made us go, “maybe watch a few more “...then your post🤔😉... I hadn’t the slightest idea he was a real writer!!!.....we obviously need to go at least a little further! Maybe some waves are about to match👍😁🤓!


The TV series is based on Durrell's autobiographical book _My Family and Other Animals _which I read when I was a teenager. I remember loving it and finding it absolutely laugh out loud hilarious. I recommend it.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> this doesn’t exactly relate to The topic but it’s a mini-twilight zone moment! I’ve never heard of Lawrence Durrell... literally this past week my wife and I gave the TV show the Durrells in Corfu a try.... we were about to give up and read one detail which made us go, “maybe watch a few more “...then your post🤔😉... I hadn’t the slightest idea he was a real writer!!!.....we obviously need to go at least a little further! Maybe some waves are about to match👍😁🤓!


Lawrence was in a Nobel Prize short list. The show is based on a _Corfú trilogy_ by his younger brother Gerald, which I adore and read several times. I laughed reading it when I was a child or a teenager, but now I'm ready to cry sometimes. It's a question of nostalgia. I highly recommend it. The show falls back to the book. 
Lawrence's books are of another kind. But I like them much too. He also has wonderful travel prose. The joke is that, like almost all the Russian readers, I knew about him from _The Corfu trilogy_.


----------



## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ColdGenius said:


> Lawrence was in a Nobel Prize short list. The show is based on a _Corfú trilogy_ by his younger brother Gerald, which I adore and read several times. I laughed reading it when I was a child or a teenager, but now I'm ready to cry sometimes. It's a question of nostalgia. I highly recommend it. The show falls back to the book.
> Lawrence's books are of another kind. But I like them much too. He also has wonderful travel prose. The joke is that, like almost all the Russian readers, I knew about him from _The Corfu trilogy_.


I’ll put him on the list!!


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is young Jessye Norman and just the sound of her opulent liquid voice is so glorious to me, but I think Steber is more what you normally expect from a Mozart specialist.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Lawrence was in a Nobel Prize short list. The show is based on a _Corfú trilogy_ by his younger brother Gerald, which I adore and read several times. I laughed reading it when I was a child or a teenager, but now I'm ready to cry sometimes. It's a question of nostalgia. I highly recommend it. The show falls back to the book.
> Lawrence's books are of another kind. But I like them much too. He also has wonderful travel prose. The joke is that, like almost all the Russian readers, I knew about him from _The Corfu trilogy_.


Sorry. Yes, I got my Durrells mixed up. Also I hadn't realised that the TV series was based on all three Durrell novels, possible because I haven't watched the whole thing. What I did see was evidently based on the first book, _My Family and Other Animals. _As far as I'm aware, _The Corfu Trilogy _is an unofficial name for the three books Gerald wrote about his and his family's time in Corfu. He did not conceive them as a trilogy.


----------



## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Sorry. Yes, I got my Durrells mixed up. Also I hadn't realised that the TV series was based on all three Durrell novels, possible because I haven't watched the whole thing. What I did see was evidently based on the first book, _My Family and Other Animals. _As far as I'm aware, _The Corfu Trilogy _is an unofficial name for the three books Gerald wrote about his and his family's time in Corfu. He did not conceive them as a trilogy.


There are three books and several short Corfu-based stories dispersed in other books. I watched the show despite of certain disappointment sometimes. It was as if it was my lost childhood. 
_Out of Africa _is close to it. It's about a best part of life which passed.


----------

