# How can i improve my songs



## Mark.Stothard

I started composing songs around 18 months ago. I've composed 15 songs so far. But every time i listen to them, i get a little uneasy. I feel they are substandard, but I don't know how to improve them.

The last song I composed "And Then What?"took around three weeks to compose, but I still feel there is a long way to go to make this sound acceptable.

Can I ask if anyone can point me in the right direction please.

Please bear in mind, I am totally self taught, i can't read music, and have never had a lesson on any instrument. So i would need advice in layman's terms if possible.

The song "And Then What" can be found here:

http://www.reverbnation.com/markstothard

Regards
Mark.


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## Polednice

It really depends on what kind of goals you're trying to achieve. From what I've heard, you use very simple and easily accessible chord progressions that are repeated at great length with melodic development as opposed to any harmonic development, thus, unless you are attempting to make a statement with minimalism, I imagine you very much wish to create 'popular' instrumental music rather than classical music - in which case, I cannot help.

If you do want to make attempts at classical composition, then you cannot underestimate the usefulness of theory and the ability to read music. You really should find the time to learn. After that, all you can do is immerse yourself in the music of the Greats and learn from them as best you can.

Whatever your goal, always bear in mind that you are not alone when you turn to a completed composition and think it is lacking in worth. Most artists find that their work is some way substandard - that's surely the impetus to carry on composing, as we never attain perfection. Anybody who thinks that their art deserves credit without criticism is surely arrogant.


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## Mark.Stothard

Thank you very much for the reply, and wonderful advice polednice, I really appreciate it.

The problem for me is I don’t know what kind of music I want to make. I have all these melodies, and ideas buzzing around in my head, I needed somewhere to put them. 

If my style is “Popular instrumental” maybe I should progress in that direction. 

I love classical music a great deal, but I feel I am out of my depth to even consider composing an intro in the classical genre.

Regards
Mark.


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## emiellucifuge

I assume you would add some vocal lines to these pieces yes? Otherwise you wouldnt have called them songs.


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## Jaime77

When you add a vocal line to something like that it becomes at least 50 percent more interesting. A good singer on top of that and you are laughing. Purely instrumental popular songs are not great to listen to unless you enter the whole ambient/electronica realm. Then you can make them into mood pieces. Other kinds of instrumental popular music rely more heavily on the ability of solo musicians to improvise with the material and push it to a whole other level. Consider adding vocal lines. Even a few lyrics and with a good voice will change the aspect totally.


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## chillowack

I agree with emiellucifuge that these pieces should more properly be called "themes" than "songs," since they are purely instrumental.

You have some interesting melodies, and some raw musical talent, which you have been exploring on your own, without training. That's great! I would describe these pieces as a good start.

The path to improvement (as polednice noted) lies in *learning more about music*: you should begin studying music in earnest. Take a class in elementary music theory, and then take another, more advanced class after that one. Learn to read music, and then study the scores of composers you admire.

Your music is currently very simple, but nonetheless promising. You have some talent and imagination--you should develop these more, add depth and richness to your music by taking your knowledge and understanding to a new level.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

I say that if you don't want to add vocals, make the violin you introduced in the piece do something similar to what a voice might do. Bring the violin into the foreground. It will pull the listener to the piece. The violin would keep the atmosphere the piano brings but it would make it so much more interesting. You really want to think about the listener. A regular listener will be bored easily so adding something different to the piece will force them to listen.

In the days of Mozart, composers had to add intricacy to the pieces. A simple melody doesn't really cut it with most listeners. 

As of now you have a very good canvas to work with. But you need to add something to the piece that will make it memorable.


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## Mark.Stothard

*Emiellucifuge:* No, my mistake. That is not my intention. I have one song with vocals called "brother" The only reason this has vocals, is that I needed to get a message across to my brother, so I wrote lyrics for that song. I can't sing, and I found it really difficult getting someone who can to sing for me.
I'm more interested in making themes.

*Jaibyrne:* Thank you for the great advice, but as above, I'm not really interested in having vocals on my tracks. Maybe that will come in the future. In the meantime, I'm trying to learn all aspects of composing.

*Chillowack:* Thanks for taking the time to listen, and reply to me, I really appreciate it. Thank you also for your encouraging comments.
I have started to learn to read music. Going to school to learn about music is something that interests me too, so I will begin looking at what is available.

*Salier=Innocent:* Thank you too for the great advice. I want to get away from simple melodies and add something more interesting, so it's back to the drawing board I go.
Thanks again to you all. Without your advice I'm sure I would remain stagnant.
Regards
Mark.


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## chillowack

You're very, welcome Mark. We're all at different stages of our composing journeys here, but one thing I think we can all do is encourage each other. Personally, I'm very grateful for this composing forum, it's allowed me to share my first classical attempts and learn a lot from composers of all levels. That's very valuable!


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## SalieriIsInnocent

Mark.Stothard said:


> Thank you too for the great advice. I want to get away from simple melodies and add something more interesting, so it's back to the drawing board I go.
> Thanks again to you all. Without your advice I'm sure I would remain stagnant.
> Regards
> Mark.


I wouldn't scrap your existing melody. Add to it!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lukecash12

You could try taking some courses in music. I can tell you that learning how to read music well, will boost a lot of other mental activity in your life.

I promise you if you just study the Great compositions, enjoy them, make it a part of your life: you would be surprised with what you can do.

Rather than difficult, think of music as one of those things that are really worthwhile. It's not like homework try to compose a classical piece; It's in the top 5 on my list of most rewarding things for a person to do.

If you really enjoy music, it's very likely it could make you into an entirely different person. Anything that seemed so jaded before will be put into perspective.


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## chillowack

Lukecash12 said:


> It's not like homework try to compose a classical piece; It's in the top 5 on my list of most rewarding things for a person to do.


I feel exactly the same way, Luke--only I might say the "Top 3," or even Top 2. I love composing music more than almost anything else.

If I could (that is to say, if I didn't have to worry about working a day job to pay the bills), I think I would spend 12-16 hours a day composing. It's quite possibly the most fun and rewarding thing I've found in life.


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## Saturnus

You have a talent for composing with the ear, you're lucky, that's not something that can be taught, but I think you could benefit from learning about musical form (and for that you need to learn how to read and write). What your songs lack is some sort of counter-material, a counter melody for an example, to catch the listeners attention in the middle-section of the song, instead of always working with the same material on and on. 

When adding countermaterial presenting it in another key than the prime material (a musical key is, in simplified terms, the collections of notes you use, (the difference can be only one note)) boosts the effect, sometimes it's okay to switch straight to the new key, but most often you need a chord progression (called modulation) starting with the chords who exist in both the new and old key and ending with chord/chords not belonging to the old key, it is most effective to start the countermaterial on the first chord after such progression.


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