# Violinists



## oldguy5

Who are generally considered to be the greatest violinists of all time?

Also, who is considered to be the current best violinist?

If there is a thread about this subject, please ignore this question and direct me to the thread.

I am also interest in the greatest pianists of all time, again see my comment about the violinists.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Several points... 1) Entire books have been written about such subjects. If it's all right, let's limit the scope of this thread to *violinists*, and make pianists the subject of another thread- if the topic remains of interest.

2) A "suggested bibliography" on this topic could well include Henry Roth's "Master Violinists in Performance" and "Great Violinists in Performance," as well as Boris Schwarz's "Great Masters of the Violin." These books seem to be out-of-print, but maybe we can get a fortunate break with inter-library loan.

3) It would be hard for us to assess the mastery of historically significant violinists such as Paganini, Joseph Joachim, _et al_. Their importance to the art is not subject to doubt... but since none of us are quite old enough to have heard them play, we can't really know-

4) My stream of consciousness impression on top violinists includes *Jascha Heifetz*... the young *Yehudi Menuhin*. *Itzhak Perlman* is as good as I've heard live, in my lifetime. *David Oistrakh*. *Isaac Stern*- (when playing at his peak!).


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## opus67

Re: the first question: Nicolo Paganini.


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## Yagan Kiely

> *Itzhak Perlman*


If he is one of the best, it is a sad time for violin... He is scratchy and very unclean; out of tune sometimes, which for a proffesional musician is terrible; and unmusical. He is a horrible violinist and I have no idea how he got so famous. He seems to make EVERYTHING sound like folkmusic (Klezmer dare I say).


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## Chi_townPhilly

Well, *o.g.*- as you can see, this is a topic which arouses deeply held feelings. This phenomenon stretches across message boards, as I remember that one of our former contributors alighted in 'another place' and introduced himself by unlimbering a brick-bat for *Heifetz*. Wow, _that_ certainly was a lively start to his interactions there.

Re: Perlman... you can make the case that he's past his prime. However, he is probably the most extensively recorded of living violinists- and I'd be surprised if you weren't able to borrow CDs of some of his performances from your local library. As with any artist, there's the opportunity to listen and make up one's own mind.

As for me, I think the quality of his artistry has something to do with the extent of his discography and his renown.


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## mozart453

I am a big fan of the late, great David Oistrakh..
as for pianists: Perahia, Ashkenazi, Maria Yudina (no longer living)


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## jhar26

A few great ones (IMO) that still haven't been mentionned are Kyung Wha Chung, Gideon Kremer and Anne-Sophie Mutter.


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## Chi_townPhilly

A little afternoon cyber-archeology uncovered this thread, apropos to pianists.

As long as I'm back here, Kyung-Wha Chung is a notable add to this discussion, and probably my favorite _female_ violinist of all time. [Historicists might say Ginette Neveu, instead.] I mentioned previously that she shared 1967's Leventritt Competition top prize with _Pinchas Zukerman_. For someone who maintained his excellence pretty much throughout his long life, there is, of course, _Nathan Milstein_. My "all-underrated" team of musicians would definitely include _Arthur Grumiaux_.


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## Misakichi_mx

Certainly * Heifetz* comes to mind, but it's all a matter of taste and what type of music they play, I like Anne Sophie Mutter for example, but not EVERYTHING she plays, I dislike her Mozart for example... (and love *Grumiaux*'s Mozart) So what I'm trying to say is it all depends on a huge number of factors and ultimately all boils down to your own personal taste. As for me I love *Heifetz, Hilary Hahn, Oistrakh, Milstein* for his Bach mostly and I could go on, but I would have to explain why I like this one for this but not for that, and so on...


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## jhar26

Misakichi_mx said:


> Certainly * Heifetz* comes to mind, but it's all a matter of taste and what type of music they play, I like Anne Sophie Mutter for example, but not EVERYTHING she plays, I dislike her Mozart for example... (and love *Grumiaux*'s Mozart) So what I'm trying to say is it all depends on a huge number of factors and ultimately all boils down to your own personal taste.


Agreed. I for one love Mutter's Mozart for example, but I don't like her recording of the Beethoven sonatas from a few years ago that much.


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## purple99

It depends what they're playing. There's a strong argument now that the modern violinists mentioned -- Heifetz, Oistrakh, Perlman, Menuhin etc -- shouldn't be let anywhere near Bach and are utterly hopeless when it comes to, say, French baroque music. Modern violin construction and technique grew from the need to fill 19th century concert halls with sound and few now attempt to graft that tradition onto 18th century music -- it sounds terrible. The great modern baroque violinists are Simon Standage, Sigiswald Kuiken, Alice Harnoncourt, Jaap Schroder, Monica Huggett, and Catherine Mackintosh. Rachel Podger's currently the bees' knees in London.









La Podger


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## opus67

Chi_town/Philly said:


> My "all-underrated" team of musicians would definitely include _Arthur Grumiaux_.


Underrated, really? He may not have had the celebrity status of a Heifetz or a Perlman, but his recordings of a wide-ranging repertoire are still held in high esteem, some even being reference material, if the reviews I read online and the exchanges on internet fora are to be believed.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Currently requested through inter-library loan- Henry Roth's "Violin Virtuosos from Paganini to the 21st Century." I'll give a little "book report" after I obtain and absorb it.

Also discovered a Milstein disc floating on the ol' South American River... it has the Brahms & Tchaikovsky Violin Concertos (warhorses, I know), but they're sacrificing it for c. $3.50. (not a typo.) 

It seems that I'll have to wait for it though- delivery is currently projected to be in March. (Talk about delayed gratification!) Well, to that $3.50 price tag, add the 'opportunity cost' of the shipping delay, I guess.


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## livemylife

I can't believe Henryk Szeryng hasn't been said yet! 
My list would include:
*Szeryng*, *Oistrakh*, *Ginette Neveu*

I am not a fan of Heifetz.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Chi_town/Philly said:


> My "all-underrated" team of musicians would definitely include _Arthur Grumiaux_.


LOL. This is the first time I read Grumiaux is underrated.



Chi_town/Philly said:


> Historicists might say Ginette Neveu, instead.


Or Guila Bustabo...

Or Johanna Martzy.



> I am not a fan of Heifetz.


Because he is cold and lacks expression. Right?


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## Alnitak

The best violinist ever? My first thought is to say there is no such person; there is only the violinist that you like best 

This written, I would say Paganini, perhaps, is the greatest to have ever lived because he did things with the violin that never had been seen before.

And, the more I think about this the more I realize that among the best violinists are also Sarasate, Kreisler, and Vieuxtemps, because of what they understood about that instrument.


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## livemylife

YsayeOp.27#6: He does have warmth/expression, but not enough for my taste.


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## World Violist

The greatest violinists of all, in my opinion, were Heifetz, Oistrakh, Menuhin, Enescu, and Ysaye.

I think the best living ones are Aaron Rosand and Pinchas Zukerman (even though Perlman is still alive, he is nowhere near the height he used to be at, for which we thankfully have plenty of recordings).

About Paganini: I think it's really kind of absent-minded to say that Paganini was the greatest violinist who ever lived unless you're some 200 years old and heard him play. The remark that he is the greatest because he did things with the violin that had never been done before, while true, does not mark him as a technical god on the violin; we have proof that Heifetz was, yes, but the question of whether or not Paganini was as good as Heifetz is not and *will never be* answered. So when asked this question I never include Paganini; his technique is lost to history.


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## handlebar

Yagan Kiely said:


> [/B]If he is one of the best, it is a sad time for violin... He is scratchy and very unclean; out of tune sometimes, which for a proffesional musician is terrible; and unmusical. He is a horrible violinist and I have no idea how he got so famous. He seems to make EVERYTHING sound like folkmusic (Klezmer dare I say).


While he seems to have declined a bit in the last few years,i would not say he is horrible. having met him and been to numerous concerts over my lifetime,I would list him in the top 10. In his prime about 20-25 years ago I would have had him in the top 5.

He has performed thousands of times and not every concert will be a perfect one. Even Heifetz had a few bad days (i have THOSE on record from private recordings). 
I don't hear klezmer in all of his recordings and concerts. Unless it is meant to be that way of course as in his Tradition CD et al.

Jim


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## handlebar

My top 10 are as follows:

Heifetz---No doubt there!
Oistrakh
Menuhin
Paganini
Ginette Neveu
Isaac Stern
Perlman
Joshua Bell
Nigel Kennedy--When he was a young fellow his technique was amazing!
Gil Shaham--Underrated in my opinion.

One could add Mutter and various others near #10 as well. Just too many.
Hahn has not done enough for me yet although I'm very impressed with what she has done.
Vengerov is fine.

How I wish I had continued my violin studies!
Jim


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## World Violist

Interesting... here are my top 10 favorite violinists:

1. Menuhin
2. Enescu
3. *Hassid*, a grossly neglected name in this thread!!!
4. Oistrakh
5. Heifetz
6. Ysaye
7. Neveu
8. Grumiaux
9. Kreisler
10. Ferras

The reason I put Menuhin and Enescu above Heifetz is because I regard interpretation far higher than technique when it comes to being a great violinist; hence my aversion to listing any living violinists as my favorites. Their technique may be good, but that's all that's good about them.


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## handlebar

Funny thing about Ysäye is that the recordings I do have of him while good are not stupendous. Then again nobody has heard Paganini yet some of us list him 
I forgot about Hassid. yes,he should be on the list.
Kreisler was a powerhouse in his day. His G and T recordings are rather slow for me though.I prefer a bit of vibrato and he had none. But that was the way of playing at that time.

Jim


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## Taneyev

To me:
Heifetz 
David Oistrakh
Hassid
Young Menuhin
Igor Politkovsky
Prihoda
Young Ricci
Neveu
Perlman before the 80s.
Andrei Korsakoff
Dinicu
Gioconda da Vito
Milstein
Odnoposoff


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## YsayeOp.27#6

handlebar said:


> Funny thing about Ysäye is that the recordings I do have of him while good are not stupendous.


I love them anyway. It's one of the few ways we have to get in touch with the way the violin was played in the old schools.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Taneyev said:


> Prihoda


And his left hand pizzicatos.


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## handlebar

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> I love them anyway. It's one of the few ways we have to get in touch with the way the violin was played in the old schools.


Agreed. I feel the same way about pianists.

Jim


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## hdk132

At least circa now, I like Hilary Hahn a lot. She is extremely expressive and uses her brilliant technique to enhance her interpretation of the music. Hahn Sibelius concerto: simply amazing. 1st time I heard the 3rd mvm my jaw dropped (and yes i do mean that literally).


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## YsayeOp.27#6

handlebar said:


> Agreed. I feel the same way about pianists.
> 
> Jim


Ever listened to the recent Marston release of recordings from the '90? I mean... 1890?


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## handlebar

Yes indeed. If it is the one I'm thinking of. I have most of the Pearl and Opal line as well which stretches back to 1892 with a few cylinders of military music and folk songs. I would say the oldest piano music cd is this Grunfeld example
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/o/opl09850a.php
It was recorded between 1899 and 1914.

The The Recorded Violinists cd's were issued as two 3-cd sets:

http://www.thestore24.com/product.aspx?si=fetch&prodid=PEA319436.2

I think the early 1900's are the beginning here.I'm at work and cannot access my cd's right now or I would check it out.

Marston is a master indeed. I have been so impressed with his work on damaged shellac recordings and the clarity he digs out.

Jim


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## YsayeOp.27#6

I didn't know the Grünfeld cd existed. Thank you very much for the information.

I have The Recorded Violin. The set drew my attention to a handful of violinists that would have otherwise remained unknown to me. Like Catterall, whose recording of Mozart's Turkish Concerto happens to be my favorite. It's a pity the sonatas he recorded had to be in hatcheted versions.


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## handlebar

Yes, a shame any of the recordings had to be edited for time. 
I wish I could find a decent copy of The Recorded Cello. Would be nice to add the collection.

I also appreciate the RCA Heifetz set of his early recordings up till 1924. Gives the youngster a bit more to show off albeit without the technique.

Jim


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## YsayeOp.27#6

handlebar said:


> I also appreciate the RCA Heifetz set of his early recordings up till 1924. Gives the youngster a bit more to show off albeit without the technique.


Like the fifth volume from the Doremi set "The Heifetz collection", including five recordings made in 1911.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

Hey, handlebar, check this out.


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## handlebar

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> Hey, handlebar, check this out.




Wow!!! Love it!! Thanks for the link.

Jim


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## YsayeOp.27#6

You are welcome. This one is also interesting.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

handlebar said:


> Wow!!! Love it!! Thanks for the link.
> 
> Jim


Just listen how Saint-Saens plays the introduction to his second concerto...


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## YsayeOp.27#6

handlebar said:


> Agreed. I feel the same way about pianists.
> 
> Jim


And I about singers, too. I'm currently listen to a 1923 Seguidille, by Barbara Kemp. The heavy hiss just makes it better.


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## DFW_Art

Maybe I'm just strange (my wife is standing and applauding that last clause), but I could listen to Francescatti all day. I love my old vinyl!


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## ladyrebecca

Did I miss them or did I not see:

Michael Rabin
Joshua Bell
Julia Fischer
Janine Jansen


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## kg4fxg

*Current Best*

I realize my opinion is a little biased. They are all cute - that helps

Hilary Hahn
Janine Jansen
Akiko Suwanai
Viktoria Mullova
Lisa Batiashvili
Sarah Chang
Midori
Julia Fischer
Nicola Benedetti
Naja salerno-Sonnenberg
Lara St. John

Not necessarily in that order.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

kg4fxg said:


> I realize my opinion is a little biased.


Definitely, you missed all the very good violinists.

I recently discovered *Boris Gutnikov*, and I'm still in awe...


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## handlebar

Cute and adorable NEVER hurts a musician. Midori,Chang,Fischer,St John,Mullova and Benedetti can visit my house for a private performance ANYTIME!!! 

Jim



kg4fxg said:


> I realize my opinion is a little biased. They are all cute - that helps
> 
> Hilary Hahn
> Janine Jansen
> Akiko Suwanai
> Viktoria Mullova
> Lisa Batiashvili
> Sarah Chang
> Midori
> Julia Fischer
> Nicola Benedetti
> Naja salerno-Sonnenberg
> Lara St. John
> 
> Not necessarily in that order.


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## kg4fxg

YsayeOp.27#6 said:


> Definitely, you missed all the very good violinists.
> 
> I recently discovered *Boris Gutnikov*, and I'm still in awe...





handlebar said:


> Cute and adorable NEVER hurts a musician. Midori,Chang,Fischer,St John,Mullova and Benedetti can visit my house for a private performance ANYTIME!!!
> 
> Jim


Yes, just to see them on youtube amazing. You can tell what videos are on my iPod. I don't know why, I am a sucker for those CD covers, but to me I enjoy the music oh so much better knowing that her beauty is some how wrapped up in the performance. It is if I can smell her perfume as she whisks the bow across those strings. The babbling of a hopeless romantic.


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## Somnifer

I think Heifetz, Oistrakh and Menuhin are the greatest violinists of all time... or at least in the recorded era.


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## Mrs Amys Music

Maybe.....Gil Shaham? He's definitely has been up and coming.


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## LuvRavel

Yagan Kiely said:


> [/B]If he is one of the best, it is a sad time for violin... He is scratchy and very unclean; out of tune sometimes, which for a proffesional musician is terrible; and unmusical. He is a horrible violinist and I have no idea how he got so famous. He seems to make EVERYTHING sound like folkmusic (Klezmer dare I say).


I second that, the scratchy sound in his playing is unbearable to me. His technique isn't that great, it lacks precision and "cleaness." It seems that his always looking downward while playing.

As for the topic, without a doubt my favourite violinist is Jascha Heifetz. Those who criticise for being "cold" or "lacks expression" are utterly deaf. Whenever I listen to his recording I feel like I'm being swept by a emotional storm, it will move the most unmoving audience.


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## YsayeOp.27#6

kg4fxg said:


> I enjoy the music oh so much better knowing that her beauty is some how wrapped up in the performance. It is if I can smell her perfume as she whisks the bow across those strings. The babbling of a hopeless romantic.


That has nothing to do with being romantic. You are horny, perhaps, but be sure fantasizing about hot women who play the violin is not as romantic as you think. Actually, it's not romantic at all.
The physical beauty of a fiddler adds nothing to the aural experience. What nonsense is next? Are you going to say something like "I don't like listening to Haendel because she was ugly"?


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## cultchas

oldguy5 said:


> Who are generally considered to be the greatest violinists of all time?
> 
> Also, who is considered to be the current best violinist?


All time list for violin:

- Zino Francescatti
- Fritz Kreisler
- Jascha Heifetz
- Henryk Szeryng
- Igor Oistrakh

While there are also excellent younger artists for violin, these are my "current":

- Pinchas Zukerman
- Itzhak Perlman



oldguy5 said:


> I am also interest in the greatest pianists of all time, again see my comment about the violinists.


All-time list for piano:

- Geza Anda
- Glenn Gould
- Sviatoslav Richter
- Clara Haskil
- Vladimir Horowitz
- Friedrich Gulda

There are younger ones who are fantastic but they surely have proven themselves and on my "current" list:

- Maurizio Pollini
- Alfred Brendel
- Vladimir Ashkenazy


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## dmg

Going to watch Midori perform Sibelius this evening.


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## Lukecash12

All time List: 
David Oistrakh 
Leonid Kogan 
Jascha Heifetz
Mstislav Rostropovich (I know he's a cellist, but he really deserved mention)


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## audiophilia

Many. But, if pushed:

Past -- Heifetz
Present -- Mutter


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## xuantu

My all-time favorite violinist is *Yehudi Menuhin*, and it's not just the young prodigy Menuhin that I love, but also the technically-problematic-yet-musically-ever-satisfying adult. The maturity and virtuosity that he showed in the earliest recordings is quite amazing. For example, his first Bruch No.1 recording (1931, LSO, Ronald; Menuhin was then only 15) is nothing short of fiery; in his Elgar concerto from 1932 with the composer conducting LSO, he brought out the work's complex character more convincingly than most in the rest of the century; another famous recording from this period, the Paganini No.1 in collaboration with Monteux and Paris Symphony Orchestra (1934) showcases his ability to make his instrument sing even in the most demanding passages. At 22, Menuhin championed the newly-discovered Schumann concerto and made a most handsome disc of it (1938, New-York Philharmonic, Barbirolli). By the time, his tone has become completely golden, and the phrasing in this recording is so fresh and youthful that it forces one to forget about the dubious quality of the work.

Menuhin started suffering from technique decline in the 1940s due to lack of systematic training, yet his big, resonant tone remained a wonder to enjoy and as an artist, he did grow considerably in the works that called for deeper penetration. His Beethoven concerto with Furtwängler conducting Philharmonia Orchestra (1953) sparkles with humanity. His Brahms (1949, Lucerne Festival Orchestra) and Bartok (1953, Philharmonia) concertos with the same conductor soar with spirits and energy. Against the wills of Baroque purists, Menuhin fearlessly sets strings on fire in his Bach solo sonatas and partitas from 1956~1957, achieving spectacular results. His Tchaikovsky concerto with Fricsay conducting RIAS-Symphony Orchestra Berlin (1949), a Menuhin rarity, is in itself a powerful and touching war symphony.

Unlike many would choose to believe, Menuhin somehow managed to frequently let his good musical instincts prevail and produced a lot of memorable recordings in the stereo era. The famous 1958 Mendelssohn e-minor concerto (Philharmonia Orchestra, Kurtz) was my introduction to the art of violin. It is a very well-judged performance and to this day still among my top choices of the work. The rarely heard modern concerto by Ernest Bloch from 1963 (Philharmonia Orchestra, Kletzki) finds Menuhin in his most ardent and imaginative state, which must be count as an instance of perfect match between music and its performer. The Mozart concerto set he recorded with Bath Festival Orchestra around the same time is, again, a confident presentation that has reasonable amount of joy and standout classical poise. In 1965, he accepted the invitation from pianist Glenn Gould and the two of them made a thought-provoking program. Acting out of his generous nature, Menuhin changed himself to support Gould's vision in the Bach and Beethoven sonatas and agreed to tackle the formidably difficult Schoenberg piece (Fantasy op.47) in just two-day's time. It's no surprise that he sounds noble and soulful in Bach and Beethoven, but his attacks in the Schoenberg are astonishingly focused and decisive, as if he was born to play this music. Other favorites of mine include his 1971 remake of Beethoven concerto with Menuhin Festival Orchestra (his most spontaneous account), his Walton violin & viola (!) concertos with the composer conducting (1968~1969), his Bartok violin & viola concertos (1965~1966, Philharmonia Orchestra, Dorati), the Beethoven sonatas made with William Kempff (1970 for DGG) and his son Jeremy Menuhin (1985~1986) and the digital Vivaldi concertos from as late as 1990 (Polish Chamber Orchestra). I also love the complete Beethoven symphonies that he recorded with Sinfonia Varsovia (1994) as a conductor. He is such a lovely and admirable music personality.

The art of Yehudi Menuhin is not so much about flawless technique as some might want in violinists (he nevertheless strived to attain technical perfection)-- his is fluid playing with warmth and truthful love. His music goes straightly to my heart, which is why I place him above all other violinists.


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## xuantu

The other violinists that I like are *Joseph Szigeti*, *Henryk Szeryng*, *Aaron Rosand*, *Daniel Hope* and *Alina Ibragimova*.


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## greatest unknown music

Recently I asked in the forum if people knew about great unknown musicians and one of the replies really made sense to me, that they are unknown greats only until you discover them. my current favorite is Anahit Tsitsikian.


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## C_Bach

Julia Fischer，she is very beautiful and famous as well


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## hankz

*Violinists!*

You have received the names of all sorts of fine artists!

I recently went back and explored the great artistry of Nathan Milstein. His interpretations of the Bach Solo sonatas are the most satisfying, for me...


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## jurianbai

Joseph Joachim (nobody mentioned his name ??) regard as a great violinist in Romantic time, and first violin playing artist to record, in 1903. 

Also Leopold Auer, the guy who refused to play Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto.

For modern era, Isaac Stern, Helena Spitkova and Yehudi Menuhin are violinist I like.

and for new generation I second that picture above, miss Julia Fischer.


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## Taneyev

jurianbai said:


> Joseph Joachim (nobody mentioned his name ??) regard as a great violinist in Romantic time, and first violin playing artist to record, in 1903.


You'r wrong. Bronislaw Hubermann recorded some short pieces for the Berliner label in 1899/900. And I think there were even earlier recordings.


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## jurianbai

ok I check again the String Magazine article about him, they have the online version : http://www.stringsmagazine.com/article/151/151,4231,Feature-1.asp

ok, they say *earlist known*. thanks for correction.


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