# Your Favourite Piano Quartets



## Roger Knox

Piano Quintets are fine, but some of the most beautiful chamber works are Piano Quartets! I haven't seen a Piano Quartets thread on TalkClassical; please let me know if there is one. The term "Piano Quartet" usually refers to compositions for piano, violin, viola, and cello, but other combinations of piano and three instruments can be so named too. What are your favourites?

To get the ball rolling here are some of mine. Comments, as well additions, are welcome. We're on TalkClassical so let's _say_ something rather than put up long lists. This ain't an encyclopedia.

Mozart: Piano Quartet in E-flat Major

Schumann: Piano Quartet in E-flat Major

Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 1 in G Minor

Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 2 in A Major

Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 3 in C minor

Fauré: Piano Quartet No. 1 in C Minor -- this is probably the one I like the most. All four movements are strong and the energy is delightful not overpowering.

Fauré: Piano Quartet No. 2 in G minor

Messiaen: Quartet for the End of Time (piano, violin, clarinet, cello)


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## joen_cph

Mozart´s two, Brahms' three, Faure´s two, and Messiaen´s single one are indeed those that come to my mind firstly, together with Kuhlau´s three.

I don´t recall those of Reger, S-Saens, Walton, Bax, Lekeu and D´Indy, to mention a few further ones of major interest. It´s been too long since I listened to them. But Reger´s are considered among his most important chamber works - I have the naxos recordings, skipping another one.


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## Bulldog

My favorite piano quartet in recent years is Taneyev's Quartet in E major, op. 20. The best version I own is from the Barbican Trio on Dutton Labs.


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## kyjo

Brahms 1-3
Schumann (the slow movement melts my heart)
Mozart G minor
Fauré 1 and 2
Dvorak 2
Chausson (beautiful and underrated)
Suk
Turina
Raff C minor 
Richard Franck A major


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## cougarjuno

There are two by Frank Bridge worth exploring whose chamber music IMO is generally his best compositions. There is one by Cyril Scott whose music is so underappreciated it's absolutely criminal. His piano quartet is quite engaging. I have to listen again to the one by Piston whose chamber music can be a bit austere. Also there is Beethoven's Op. 16 quintet for piano and winds which he arranged for the normal piano quartet forces -- I love this piece in both versions. It's one of my favorites of Beethoven. There is also a very early one by Bartok.


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## Quartetfore

I like just about all of the works listed, but I would add the last of the three early works that Beethoven composed. Its short about 17 minutes, but a fun work to hear.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Brahms No. 2, opus 26....the warmest and most moving of his three for me.
Faure No.1, opus 15...my Faure favorite
Faure No. 2, opus 45


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## Bruce

Quite a few of my favorites are already listed, but I'd also add a quartet I've really come to enjoy over the years, a Quartet by Howard Blake, his Op. 179 work.


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## MusicSybarite

These are my favorites:

Brahms - All of them are real masterpieces, but I'm especially fond of the No. 3.
Rheinberger - This is one of my very favorites. It's an impeccable work, full of memorable melodies.
Dvorák - Both. These PQs are notable because of their tunes and the characteristic happiness on them.
Martinu - The 2nd mov. has a sort of creepy atmosphere really interesting.
Herzogenberg (No. 2) - Gorgeous without any doubt.
Jongen - Very worthy of listening.
Howells - It's a recent discovery. Besides choral music, Howells seems that wrote some appealing chamber music.
Mahler - The one movement PQ shows the Mahler's gifts for composing for chamber music.
Rubinstein - Both. Tremendous pieces, highly recommended. Don't hesitate!
Scharwenka, Franz Xaver - Impressive, with an overwhelming strength.


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## Roger Knox

Bulldog said:


> My favorite piano quartet in recent years is Taneyev's Quartet in E major, op. 20. The best version I own is from the Barbican Trio on Dutton Labs.


Just listened to the first movement! Thanks for introducing me to this remarkable work -- I had heard only Taneyev's brilliant _Quintet_ previously. These pieces changed my previous image of Taneyev as a learned contrapuntist, to being one of a learned contrapuntist who applied his polyphonic genius in innovative late- or postromantic chamber music -- it wasn't only Germans and Austrians who did that.


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## Roger Knox

Roger Knox said:


> We're on TalkClassical so let's _say_ something rather than put up long lists. This ain't an encyclopedia.


Please allow me to amend the above comment from my initial post to this thread. The lists on TalkClassical usually strike me as thoughtful and the result of extensive listening experience, including the long ones. In one exceptional case that looked like copying, the blowback from TalkClassical members was immediate! So let me say that I really appreciate the comments, additions, _and_ lists on this thread.


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## Josquin13

Over the years, I've listened most to the piano quartet by Schumann, the three by Brahms, two by Faure (especially the 1st), and Mozart's. So, I'd have to say those are my favorites.

However, more off the beaten path, other favorites have included the Op. 7 and Op. 14 Piano Quartets by Johann Schobert, who met the young Mozart in Paris in the 1760s, and whose three piano quartets likely served as models for Mozart's own. Certainly Schobert's deserve to be better known, I may even prefer them to Mozart's. There's a very good recording from Chiara Banchini and Ensemble 415 on Harmonia Mundi that I'd recommend. It's on YT:






https://www.amazon.com/Schobert-Qua...r=1-1&keywords=schobert+ensemble+415+banchini

The French "impressionist" composers also wrote a number of fine piano quartets--Faure, of course, who's already been mentioned, but also Chausson, Saint-Saens (op. 41), and D'Indy. In addition, there's a lesser known piano quartet by Darius Milhaud (his Op. 417, from 1966), which is worth getting to know. There's an excellent performance by Ensemble Polytonaal on a very recommendable CD of selected chamber works by Milhaud (if you don't know Milhaud's early Violin Sonata No. 2, Op. 40, you're in for a treat):






https://www.amazon.com/Milhaud-Cham...8&sr=1-1&keywords=ensemble+polytonaal+milhaud

And, here's a link to Milhaud's 2nd Violin Sonata:





I'd also cite a beautiful 'unfinished' piano quartet by Guillaume Lekeu from 1893-94, which again is of a surprisingly high quality (I actually prefer it to Chausson's):






I'll also occasionally listen to Felix Mendelsohnn's three youthful piano quartets (his Opuses 1, 2, & 3), & most especially the third PQ. A period recording by The Atlantis Ensemble on Musica Omnia is very good:






I've yet to get to the piano quartets by the UK composers--Walton, Bridge (Phantasy), Mackenzie, Stanford, Howells, Scott, etc., but hope to at some point.

There's also a beautiful PQ from Joaquin Turina, his Op. 67, for those interested in Spanish composers:


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## Pugg

Dvorak: Piano Quintet
Gernsheim: The Piano Quintets


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## juliante

Roger Knox said:


> Just listened to the first movement! Thanks for introducing me to this remarkable work -- I had heard only Taneyev's brilliant _Quintet_ previously. These pieces changed my previous image of Taneyev as a learned contrapuntist, to being one of a learned contrapuntist who applied his polyphonic genius in innovative late- or postromantic chamber music -- it wasn't only Germans and Austrians who did that.


Quintet in G Minor?


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## Quartetfore

Richard Strauss composed a Piano Quartet when he was around twenty, it is his Op.13. It`s not a "great work", but there are some very fine moments. and for those who like his music there are signs of what will come.


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## Quartetfore

Pugg said:


> Dvorak: Piano Quintet
> Gernsheim: The Piano Quintets


Do you mean their Piano Quartets? The Dvorak Op.87 is one of his finest works, and the Op.23 is enjoyable. If you the Chamber Music composed by Gernsheim ,there is a very good recording of his String Quartet Op.31 played by the Mandelring Quartet I think it might be on Audite.


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## Roger Knox

Haydn67 said:


> Faure No.1, opus 15...my Faure favorite
> Faure No. 2, opus 45


A few thoughts concerning the Faure _Piano Quartet_ No. 1 in C minor, op. 15:
- sense of modality established from the start with the chord progression C minor-G minor-C minor (i-v-i), and strong melodic B-flat in the G minor chord. Studying at the Ecole Niedermeyer, Faure learned to accompany Gregorian chant on the organ with chords derived from a chant's mode (scale) rather than with major-minor harmony as had been done previously. In his secular music, it's not use of church modes but rather Faure's mixing of modal, major-minor, and chromatic harmony that's notable. (He also learned Wagnerian chromatic harmony from Saint-Saens at the progressive Niedermeyer School.)
- in a piano quartet the three stringed instruments give a sense of balance: low (cello), middle (viola) and high (violin) ranges
- these three instruments form full triads without doubling notes, as in the suave close-harmony strings of the Scherzo's Trio 
- the three-fold imitation of these instruments entering successively conveys classic balance, as in the Finale's opening

At the risk of over-generalizing, a Piano Quartet tends to be more balanced & classic, a Piano Quintet more grand & romantic? Suggesting that the distinction between each type involves more than just the instrument count.


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## Melvin

Roger Knox said:


> At the risk of over-generalizing, a Piano Quartet tends to be more balanced & classic, a Piano Quintet more grand & romantic? Suggesting that the distinction between each type involves more than just the instrument count.


Some truth to that, simply because the piano quintet (as we know it today) was not popularized until after Schumann's Quintet written in 1842. Before then, Piano Quintets were much less common, besides a few early romantic examples, most notably the quintets by Schubert and JN Hummel which used the Boccherini-style instrumentation that includes a double bass instead of a second viola. However the Piano Quartet (as well as the P. trio) were already firmly established in the classical period by Beethoven & Mozart, neither of whom wrote any piano quintets.

So the piano quintet genre is mostly dominated by mid to late romantic composers. While the piano quartet has many more examples from earlier on. Also the quintet definitely has a tendency to be quite grandiose in scale (Brahms' is longer than any of his symphonies, and Taneyev's and Schmidt's are about 50 minute long). It has an orchestral quality.

Piano trios, quartets, and quintets are kind of my favorite classical genre, I would have to say.
My favorite P. Quartets have long been Schumann's P. Quartet and Brahms' 3rd P. Quartet.
And Gernsheim has definitely been one of my favorite unknown romantic composers lately. He has 3 P. Quartets and 2 P. Quintets.
The Walton Piano quartet is amazing and stays completely tonal. very much has a Debussy sound to it.
The Herzog Piano quartets are of interest to me.
And of course Mozart P quartet no. 1


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## Nonchalant

As far as large scale Piano Quintets, this one really blew my mind despite being a poor recording:

Leo Ornstein - first movement





Ornstein is severely underrated. I also really like Sir Arnold Bax's quintet.


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## Roger Knox

Bulldog said:


> My favorite piano quartet in recent years is Taneyev's Quartet in E major, op. 20. The best version I own is from the Barbican Trio on Dutton Labs.


Having listened now to the whole Taneyev Piano Quartet in a fine live performance on YouTube (Sitkovetsky/Rysanov/Ferrández-Castro/Geniušas - Verbier Festival), I think the later movements support my favourable impression of the first one. It will be worth getting my own recording; in the meantime I'll re-listen to the finale, which seems the most complex movement -- maybe your suggested eight times! At music school in the 1970's we were taught "style analysis," which included analyzing melody, harmony, rhythm/metre, dynamics, texture, timbre, form/growth, text/drama: the total of 8 areas happens to match eight-fold listening.


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## Roger Knox

Melvin said:


> Some truth to that, simply because the piano quintet (as we know it today) was not popularized until after Schumann's Quintet written in 1842. Before then, Piano Quintets were much less common, besides a few early romantic examples, most notably the quintets by Schubert and JN Hummel which used the Boccherini-style instrumentation that includes a double bass instead of a second viola. However the Piano Quartet (as well as the P. trio) were already firmly established in the classical period by Beethoven & Mozart, neither of whom wrote any piano quintets.
> So the piano quintet genre is mostly dominated by mid to late romantic composers. While the piano quartet has many more examples from earlier on. Also the quintet definitely has a tendency to be quite grandiose in scale (Brahms' is longer than any of his symphonies, and Taneyev's and Schmidt's are about 50 minute long). It has an orchestral quality.
> Piano trios, quartets, and quintets are kind of my favorite classical genre, I would have to say.
> My favorite P. Quartets have long been Schumann's P. Quartet and Brahms' 3rd P. Quartet. And Gernsheim has definitely been one of my favorite unknown romantic composers lately. He has 3 P. Quartets and 2 P. Quintets.
> The Walton Piano quartet is amazing and stays completely tonal. very much has a Debussy sound to it. The Herzog Piano quartets are of interest to me. And of course Mozart P quartet no. 1


Thanks for your post which I appreciate very much; many good points! Gernsheim especially, and Herzogenberg are favourites of mine too. So far I've compiled from standard sources a list of over 100 piano quartets, in addition to those already mentioned on this thread. Surprised to find quite a few piano quartets that I hadn't heard of, even though they're by well-known composers!


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## Melvin

hmm "style analysis" -sounds interesting. I am only a layman who can't read music; I wonder if their would be a useful book for this "style analysis" worthwhile to look at?
Anyway, I like to think I have a natural undefined faculty of musical perception, but still the concept has given me some curiosity on that subject; maybe I could get something more out of music looking through that prism?


I actually haven't yet heard the Taneyev piano quartet! But the quintet has long been a favorite of mine, in fact one that spurred my further explorations into the unknown, (which has not been without it's rewards). Also I've been impressed with Taneyev's piano trio! It is has a much more epic-scale than you would expect from a typical piano trio, but since it's Tanyev you wouldn't be surprised by that!


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## Blancrocher

Melvin said:


> hmm "style analysis" -sounds interesting. I am only a layman who can't read music; I wonder if their would be a useful book for this "style analysis" worthwhile to look at?


In case you're interested, I occasionally post in this thread for "instructional videos for amateurs": Instructional Videos for Amateurs

Bruce Adolphe was mentioned as a particularly good explainer of classical music with lots of videos online. His discussion of Mozart's Piano Quartet in E-flat major is particularly entertaining:


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## Chatellerault

Mahler's Piano Quartet is a beautiful early work

And Mozart's, just like his Piano Concertos, are arguably unsurpassable.


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## insomniclassicac

A few faves not yet mentioned:

Fibich Piano Quartet in E Minor, Op. 11

Castillon Piano Quartet in G minor, Op. 7

Catoire Piano Quartet No. 1 in A minor, Op. 31


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## Roger Knox

Melvin said:


> hmm "style analysis" -sounds interesting. I am only a layman who can't read music; I wonder if their would be a useful book for this "style analysis" worthwhile to look at?
> Anyway, I like to think I have a natural undefined faculty of musical perception, but still the concept has given me some curiosity on that subject; maybe I could get something more out of music looking through that prism?


Don't worry, your previous post shows much insight and you probably have excellent ears! Introductory books on music for non-majors by Joseph Kerman, Roger Kamien, and Joseph Machlis (the better music appreciation books) have quite a bit of style analysis in them. When I was an undergraduate music student in the 1970's, we did style analysis in both music theory and music history classes; I don't know what they do now. Apart from some harmony and form, the areas of style analysis mentioned in my previous post are accessible to listeners who don't read music.


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## Roger Knox

Melvin said:


> Piano trios, quartets, and quintets are kind of my favorite classical genre, I would have to say.


One Piano Quartet that hasn't been mentioned yet is Aaron Copland's. I always find Copland's individualistic style appealing, including in this work which is from his serial period in the 1950's.

I appreciate your comments! With all the recommendations on this thread I will be busy listening for some time. Here are some more possible tendencies (with many exceptions) concerning the genres you mentioned. In live performance I find the _Piano Trio_ efficient and transparent, often featuring excellent performers who have formed long-standing ensembles. The _Piano Quintet_ is glamorous and temporary, often played by an outstanding string quartet and virtuoso guest pianist, great at summer festivals. The _Piano Quartet_ is less flashy, maybe having had to make accommodations by adding a violist to an existing Trio or subtract a violinist from an existing String Quartet. It is a good thing to have long-standing Piano Quartets, e.g. the Ames.


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## MusicSybarite

I'm listening to the Walton's Piano quartet right now. It's really appealing indeed! Intense, passionate and with a generous thematic development.


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## Roger Knox

*Walton Piano Quartet*



MusicSybarite said:


> I'm listening to the Walton's Piano quartet right now. It's really appealing indeed! Intense, passionate and with a generous thematic development.


OK I'll make it my listening priority. I would have heard it long ago if British music hadn't been studiously ignored in my university years! Well, not totally -- after 50 years I can still sing 'Sumer is icumen in, lude sing cuckoo' over and over again . . .


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## Roger Knox

Let's give some love to Faure's _Second Piano Quartet _in G Minor. It's more melancholy than the First; the flat 2nd scale note (Phrygian mode) at some places contributes to that feel. Great Adagio which opens with piano "tolling bells;" altogether a superb work which competes with No. 1 for precedence IMO.


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## Roger Knox

MusicSybarite said:


> I'm listening to the Walton's Piano quartet right now. It's really appealing indeed! Intense, passionate and with a generous thematic development.


Well I've listened to the complete Walton and it's a remarkable piece, especially for a teenager! Also helps you see what preceded his composition of _Facade_. The slow movement is English pastoral but the fast movements are spicier rhythmically and harmonically. The Notos Piano Quartet from Germany capture the latter qualities well. I was once told by someone who knew him that Walton liked his music to be played with "everything big" -- lots of contrast and flair -- it works here.


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## kyjo

Roger Knox said:


> Let's give some love to Faure's _Second Piano Quartet _in G Minor. It's more melancholy than the First; the flat 2nd scale note (Phrygian mode) at some places contributes to that feel. Great Adagio which opens with piano "tolling bells;" altogether a superb work which competes with No. 1 for precedence IMO.


It's a great work indeed! The first movement is so passionate, the scherzo so forward-looking, and the slow movement so beautiful and mysterious!


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## Roger Knox

kyjo said:


> Chausson (beautiful and underrated)
> Suk


The Suk and the Chausson quartets are knockouts! The "standard repertoire" of piano quartets is too small; these two must be added!


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> Richard Strauss composed a Piano Quartet when he was around twenty, it is his Op.13. It`s not a "great work", but there are some very fine moments. and for those who like his music there are signs of what will come.


Agree about Richard Strauss's _Piano Quartet_! Perhaps one sign of what would come is the trio section of the second movement _Scherzo_. Listening to the lyrical instrumental lines reminded me of the very famous vocal trio at the close of _Rosenkavalier_, not of tunes or harmony but rather the process of interweaving voices. (It is something that Strauss said his mind created naturally -- melodies with countermelodies.) All four movements are very good indeed.


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## Swosh

Joachim Raff 1 and 2! Don't miss hearing this great composer!


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## Roger Knox

Swosh said:


> Joachim Raff 1 and 2! Don't miss hearing this great composer!


I certainly agree about these late works by Raff (1822-1882). Just now I'm listening to Raff's Piano Quartet No. 1 (1876), which is full of musical invention, high energy, and feeling! Since starting this thread it's been notable how many under-recognized late Romantic symphonists show up as composers of fine chamber music as well.


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## Swosh

Yes! He was very respected in his time, apparently, and he wrote in many different forms. He's in my top 5 composers ever. His lack of performances in the 20th century was a crime in my opinion lol. And hello fellow torontonian, I'm at bathurst and eglinton!


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## Swosh

Here's another


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## Roger Knox

Swosh said:


> Yes! He was very respected in his time, apparently, and he wrote in many different forms. He's in my top 5 composers ever. His lack of performances in the 20th century was a crime in my opinion lol.


*Warning*: all the following 2's and 1's may confuse! Just to be clear, my previous comment concerned the Raff Piano Quartet No. 1, Op. 202, no. 1 in G Major (1876). I've also listened to the Raff Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 202, no. 2 in C Minor (als0 1876!) which is equally good. And not as gloomy as some commentators suggest; the finale in C Major is exciting and his seemingly effortless counterpoint gets pretty wild sometimes. Raff was a _vielschreiber_ like Carl Reinecke and that may have bothered fastidious critics, but I thinks it's amazing to have had over 200 publications of original compositions. As an admirer of his last four symphonies, I think these works also support your high estimation of Raff (for me, especially "late Raff.")


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## Quartetfore

Roger Knox said:


> *Warning*: all the following 2's and 1's may confuse! Just to be clear, my previous comment concerned the Raff Piano Quartet No. 1, Op. 202, no. 1 in G Major (1876). I've also listened to the Raff Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 202, no. 2 in C Minor (als0 1876!) which is equally good. And not as gloomy as some commentators suggest; the finale in C Major is exciting and his seemingly effortless counterpoint gets pretty wild sometimes. Raff was a _vielschreiber_ like Carl Reinecke and that may have bothered fastidious critics, but I thinks it's amazing to have had over 200 publications of original compositions. As an admirer of his last four symphonies, I think these works also support your high estimation of Raff (for me, especially "late Raff.")


Try to hear his Piano Trios--very nice. It is interesting that there were complaints during his time that he was to prolific. The Raff Society has a very good site devoted to his music and his life.


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> Try to hear his Piano Trios--very nice. It is interesting that there were complaints during his time that he was to prolific. The Raff Society has a very good site devoted to his music and his life.


Thanks for your recommendation, which I will follow up.


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> I like just about all of the works listed, but I would add the last of the three early works that Beethoven composed. Its short about 17 minutes, but a fun work to hear.


Thanks for your recommendation! 
Not to be confused with the work you have mentioned, Beethoven's _Piano Quartet_, op. 16 in E-flat major is enjoyable too. His own arrangement of his _Quintet for Piano and Winds_, it maintains that work's humour, and I think the stringed instruments enhance the expressiveness of the slow movement. It's not a masterpiece but still it is one of the best piano quartets from the classical period.


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## KenOC

Roger Knox said:


> Thanks for your recommendation!
> Not to be confused with the work you have mentioned, Beethoven's _Piano Quartet_, op. 16 in E-flat major is enjoyable too. His own arrangement of his _Quintet for Piano and Winds_, it maintains that work's humour, and I think the stringed instruments enhance the expressiveness of the slow movement. It's not a masterpiece but still it is one of the best piano quartets from the classical period.


Beethoven's Op. 16, in its original form, was likely inspired by Mozart's K.452 Wind Quintet in the same key. The two works were often found back-to-back on the same LP in the days of vinyl. A contemporary reviewer also linked the two works, and without choosing a favorite wrote, "It will be a hundred years before we'll see such a pair of works again."

The piano quartet arrangement was Beethoven's own. Artaria later made an unauthorized arrangement for string quartet which it published as Op. 75. That opus number is now used for a different (and original) work.


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## cougarjuno

Regarding Raff -- not only are the trios and quartets beautiful works -- listen to his violin sonatas -- absolutely wonderful! Inspired works indeed, he was no cookie-cutter composer. Creative and brilliant are most of the works I've heard of his. And dare I say regarding his chamber works -- as inspired as Brahms.


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## Roger Knox

*Beethoven's Piano Quartet, Op. 16.b*



KenOC said:


> Beethoven's Op. 16, in its original form, was likely inspired by Mozart's K.452 Wind Quintet in the same key. The two works were often found back-to-back on the same LP in the days of vinyl. A contemporary reviewer also linked the two works, and without choosing a favorite wrote, "It will be a hundred years before we'll see such a pair of works again."
> 
> The piano quartet arrangement was Beethoven's own. Artaria later made an unauthorized arrangement for string quartet which it published as Op. 75. That opus number is now used for a different (and original) work.


Thanks KenOC for this interesting information! Will just add to your clarification that I've seen Beethoven's _Quintet for Piano and Winds_ listed as Op. 16.a and his _Piano Quartet_ arrangement as Op. 16.b. Agreed, the Mozart and Beethoven works are an unbeatable combination. I can't think of any quintet for piano and winds equaling either! Probably my earlier comments on the Quartet were too lukewarm; the name Beethoven tends to evoke profundity, but here (as in the _Septet_, Op. 21) the high spirits and poise in composing or arranging for challenging combinations help us remember the composer's happier side.


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## Roger Knox

I've enjoyed several versions of the _Piano Quartet _(1893) by Guillaume Lekeu (1870-94) that was completed by Vincent d'Indy. It's an exciting piece, obviously popular with young piano quartets and attractive to fans like me who previously knew only Lekeu's _Violin Sonata_. The quartet conveys high drama, technical assuredness, and lyrical beauty in equal measure. This Belgian student of Franck and d'Indy could have become world-famous had he lived! Compared to d'Indy's own _Piano Quartet, op. 7_ (the finale of which I could only find an excerpt on YouTube), Lekeu's work has more _gravitas_ and imagination, while d'Indy's has some annoying repetitions -- and I need to find a better recording of it.


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## Roger Knox

On the British label Toccata Classics a release date of April 1 is given for _Hans Gal Chamber Music, Vol. 3_. It includes his _Piano Quartet _(1914) plus several violin/piano sonatinas; they're now available on their web site for listening. The _Piano Quartet's _ ear-catching motifs and natural progression make it great, compelling listening as do excellent performances and sound quality!


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## MusicSybarite

Great suggestions Roger. I'll have them in my listening list.


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## hpowders

The three by Brahms, especially the very long, but well worth it, A Major.


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## Roger Knox

Felix Mendelssohn's _Piano Quartet No. 1 in C minor_, Op. 1 (1822), composed when he was only thirteen, I find attractive -- neat and compact, lyrical and virtuosic in turn, already with his deft joining of phrases that keeps the flow and forward motion strong. You just want to keep listening and I hope the same is true of nos. 2 and 3, also from his teens.

As for recordings, any suggestions? The uploader of the one I heard goes by a moniker that is too indecent to be repeated . . .


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## Quartetfore

If Hans Gal and Lekeu are to your taste, you should if you have a chance hear the only String Quartet of Lekeu. It is modeled after Beethovens "Last Quartets" and has some very nice music. Hans Gal wrote a number of String Quartets, the first is very enjoyable. His style did change as the years went by, but the first is more in the Romantic idiom.


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> If Hans Gal and Lekeu are to your taste, you should if you have a chance hear the only String Quartet of Lekeu. It is modeled after Beethovens "Last Quartets" and has some very nice music. Hans Gal wrote a number of String Quartets, the first is very enjoyable. His style did change as the years went by, but the first is more in the Romantic idiom.


Important composers in my book -- I'll check them out.


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## Roger Knox

*Long post but worth it I hope:* Before getting back to Mendelssohn, the Saint-Saens phone line is a-ringing! My friend Camille seems to approve of my take on the great Felix, but he's upset that I've failed to mention his own *Piano Quartet No. 2 in B-Flat Major*, op. 41. So please hold on while I tell him that I was saving that work, which deserves multiple hearings, for later . . .

Yes, now back to op. 41 in B-Flat Major. It _is Number Two_, since the discovery in 1992 of the very early *Piano Quartet in E Major* that is now No. 1. But B-Flat No. 2 still is given as No. 1 sometimes, so one needs to check for the key and opus number. End of story, sort of.

Op. 41 in B-Flat Major is beautiful in instrumental sound and texture. The first movement is an intelligent conversation, though a rapid 2-note descending figure interrupts repeatedly (the descending-4th motif at the opening of Beethoven's Ninth . . . (hmmm? . . .). There is no slow movement; the second is instead a truly amazing contrapuntal _tour de force_. In the third movement scherzo, the 2-note figure recurs, but now with the second note accented (Beethoven's way) instead of the first . . . (hmmm?). The finale is an appropriately brilliant end to this terrific work. My theory is that the 2-note motifs are mouse squeaks (!) and further that a definite cat's "meow" in the work (can anyone find it?) gives it away.

I haven't heard the E Major Quartet, but Saint-Saens wrote an amazing *Barcarolle*, op. 108, which you MUST HEAR, otherwise I just may continue to write in capital letters!


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## MusicSybarite

Roger Knox said:


> *Long post but worth it I hope:* Before getting back to Mendelssohn, the Saint-Saens phone line is a-ringing! My friend Camille seems to approve of my take on the great Felix, but he's upset that I've failed to mention his own *Piano Quartet No. 2 in B-Flat Major*, op. 41. So please hold on while I tell him that I was saving that work, which deserves multiple hearings, for later . . .
> 
> Yes, now back to op. 41 in B-Flat Major. It _is Number Two_, since the discovery in 1992 of the very early *Piano Quartet in E Major* that is now No. 1. But B-Flat No. 2 still is given as No. 1 sometimes, so one needs to check for the key and opus number. End of story, sort of.
> 
> Op. 41 in B-Flat Major is beautiful in instrumental sound and texture. The first movement is an intelligent conversation, though a rapid 2-note descending figure interrupts repeatedly (the descending-4th motif at the opening of Beethoven's Ninth . . . (hmmm? . . .). There is no slow movement; the second is instead a truly amazing contrapuntal _tour de force_. In the third movement scherzo, the 2-note figure recurs, but now with the second note accented (Beethoven's way) instead of the first . . . (hmmm?). The finale is an appropriately brilliant end to this terrific work. My theory is that the 2-note motifs are mouse squeaks (!) and further that a definite cat's "meow" in the work (can anyone find it?) gives it away.
> 
> I haven't heard the E Major Quartet, but Saint-Saens wrote an amazing *Barcarolle*, op. 108, which you MUST HEAR, otherwise I just may continue to write in capital letters!


I know those works by Saint-Saëns, and, effectively, are terrific. Saint-Saëns had such a craftsmanship to compose gorgeous music, despite many people don't recognize his talent.


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## Roger Knox

MusicSybarite said:


> I know those works by Saint-Saëns, and, effectively, are terrific. Saint-Saëns had such a craftsmanship to compose gorgeous music, despite many people don't recognize his talent.


Having listened to a lot of German and Austrian music for awhile I needed to adjust for Saint-Saens, and at first was unimpressed by the B-Flat Quartet, which does not have the intense Romantic expressiveness with emotion-conveying harmonic surprises that some of his German contemporaries were known for. But subsequent listening showed me what it does have! As you say, "craftsmanship to compose gorgeous music;" all those instrumental combinations and flights of fancy and much more, that work perfectly. Saint-Saens, the true classicist who lived in the Romantic era!


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## KenOC

Roger Knox said:


> *Long post but worth it I hope:* Before getting back to Mendelssohn, the Saint-Saens phone line is a-ringing! My friend Camille seems to approve of my take on the great Felix, but he's upset that I've failed to mention his own *Piano Quartet No. 2 in B-Flat Major*, op. 41. So please hold on while I tell him that I was saving that work, which deserves multiple hearings, for later . . .


What a great work! I'd never heard this but listened to the YT version with Christina Ortiz, piano, and the Fine Arts Quartet. Quality stuff, intelligent and entertaining, from first to last.


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## Josquin13

Agreed. Christina Ortiz is an underrated pianist. The Nash Ensemble also recorded a valuable 2 CD set of Saint-Saens chamber music, which includes the Piano Quartet:

https://www.amazon.com/Saint-Saens-...963&sr=1-1&keywords=nash+ensemble+saint-saens

The Ames Piano Quartet made a recording for Dorian too (available in their 6 CD set). But it isn't a work that gets recorded often.

I recently heard a recording of Salomon Jadassohn's Piano Quartet in C minor, Op. 77--a new composer and work for me--& think it's worth hearing; though I wasn't entirely won over by the (somewhat brusque) opening movement, but it gets better, with an inventive 'Schumannesque' Scherzo & lovely Adagio. The performance I listened to was by the Leipzig Piano Quartet, a fine group comprised of members of the Gewandhaus Orchestra. The CD (or possibly hybrid SACD?) additionally includes a very fine rendition of Mendelssohn's Piano Quartet in F minor, Op. 2, and Schumann's Piano Quartet in E-flat, Op. 47 (all included on the You Tube playlist):






Roger Knox writes, "Felix Mendelssohn's Piano Quartet No. 1 in C minor, Op. 1 (1822), composed when he was only thirteen, I find attractive -- neat and compact, lyrical and virtuosic in turn, already with his deft joining of phrases that keeps the flow and forward motion strong. You just want to keep listening and I hope the same is true of nos. 2 and 3, also from his teens.

As for recordings, any suggestions?"

Among period instrument recordings, I provided a YT link to The Atlantis Ensemble performing all three Mendelssohn Piano Quartets earlier in the thread. Here's an Amazon link to their recording:

https://www.amazon.com/Young-Felix-...rd_wg=Cvboq&psc=1&refRID=W5YYK5BEJWW0HHR6VC1K

However, if you didn't like those recordings, or would prefer to hear Mendelssohn's piano quartets on modern instruments, I'd recommend the Domus Ensemble, who've likewise recorded all three works:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00000DNYU/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

The Schubert Ensemble has also recorded all three for Nimbus, but I haven't heard those recordings.

https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Quarte...sr=1-1&keywords=schubert+ensemble+mendelssohn

In addition, the Leipzig Piano Quartet's recording of No. 2 (linked above) is very beautifully played (though I wasn't quite as keen on their Schumann).


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## Roger Knox

The _Piano Quartet No. 2_ in F Minor by Felix Mendelssohn continues his series of extraordinarily precocious chamber works. I particularly like the slow movement, whose opening reminds of more than one of his _Songs Without Words_ for piano. Yet it has more expressive power than do his most conventional works. The Scherzo excels, as expected, while for all its craft the finale seems to carry on a bit too long in _moto perpetuo_. The Schubert Ensemble's performance is polished and clear.

Concerning recordings, I'm afraid my own collection is thin compared to those of a number of other posters, though I'm adding to it gradually. Also, the Toronto Reference Library still maintains an ample collection of recordings and scores which I will draw on more and more for comparisons. Much appreciation for the many comments on and postings of recordings and videos on this thread! can't do without 'em!


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## kyjo

Roger Knox said:


> The _Piano Quartet No. 2_ in F Minor by Felix Mendelssohn continues his series of extraordinarily precocious chamber works. I particularly like the slow movement, whose opening reminds of more than one of his _Songs Without Words_ for piano. Yet it has more expressive power than do his most conventional works. The Scherzo excels, as expected, while for all its craft the finale seems to carry on a bit to long in _moto perpetuo_. The Schubert Ensemble's performance is polished and clear.
> 
> Concerning recordings, I'm afraid my own collection is thin compared to a number of posters, though I'm adding to it gradually. Also, the Toronto Reference Library still maintains an ample collection of recordings and scores which I will draw on more and more for comparisons. Much appreciation for the many comments on and postings of recordings and videos on this thread! can't do without 'em!


I always forget that Mendelssohn wrote piano quartets! Being as much of a fan of Mendelssohn's chamber works as I am, I ought to check them out.


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## aussiebushman

"Christina Ortiz is an underrated pianist" amazes me though the statement is probably correct. I know this is off-topic but for me, her performances of the Shostakovich piano concertos outclass all others I have heard- especially the Dmitri Shostakovich version that is surprisingly bland.

Back to the original poll question, I would find it hard to pick a "winner" from any late-Beethoven, the Brahms A Major or Saint Saens B-Flat Major


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## aussiebushman

Neglected to mention the Chausson Opus 30 Piano Quartet and no one else seems to have included it in a "favorites" list. Sure, Chausson was manic-depressive and earlier works were heavily influenced by Cesar Frank and by Wagner but by 1897 he had pretty much developed a style of his own. I'm not suggesting that Chausson deserves to be considered in the very "top rank" but it is interesting and lovely music.


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## Roger Knox

Josquin13 said:


> Among period instrument recordings, I provided a YT link to The Atlantis Ensemble performing all three Mendelssohn Piano Quartets earlier in the thread. Here's an Amazon link to their recording:
> https://www.amazon.com/Young-Felix-...rd_wg=Cvboq&psc=1&refRID=W5YYK5BEJWW0HHR6VC1K
> 
> However, if you didn't like those recordings, or would prefer to hear Mendelssohn's piano quartets on modern instruments, I'd recommend the Domus Ensemble, who've likewise recorded all three works:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00000DNYU/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> The Schubert Ensemble has also recorded all three for Nimbus, but I haven't heard those recordings.
> https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Quarte...sr=1-1&keywords=schubert+ensemble+mendelssohn
> 
> In addition, the Leipzig Piano Quartet's recording of No. 2 (linked above) is very beautifully played (though I wasn't quite as keen on their Schumann).


Thanks again Josquin for your excellent post that includes what we need, suggestions of available recordings plus insightful comments. I'm sorry not to have commented to your recordings info earlier (still to come). Proceeding now to Felix Mendelssohn's formidable _Piano Quartet No. 3_, Op. 3 in B Minor completed when he was 15, hearing the YouTube upload of it from Frank Pelleg and members of the Winterthur Quartet, Concert Hall Society, 1954, gives another touchstone for comparison. No slouches in the tempo department, these players excel in balance and colour. The pianist in particular turns virtuoso perpetual motion passages into dark clouds, lightning, galloping hooves in my my imaginings ... all maintaining pace without becoming mechanical. The opening movement has intimations of Beethovenian power; the tender second movement is a brief respite until the scherzo with its rattling piano broken octaves ratchets up tension. The finale is a _tour de force_, dispelling any notions of a prim Mendelssohn and showing him ready to take up the challenges of the _Octet_ and _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ at the age of 16.


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## Roger Knox

aussiebushman said:


> Neglected to mention the Chausson Opus 30 Piano Quartet and no one else seems to have included it in a "favorites" list. Sure, Chausson was manic-depressive and earlier works were heavily influenced by Cesar Frank and by Wagner but by 1897 he had pretty much developed a style of his own. I'm not suggesting that Chausson deserves to be considered in the very "top rank" but it is interesting and lovely music.


I certainly agree and would welcome more info on this wonderful piece from anyone so inclined.


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## Quartetfore

Roger Knox said:


> I certainly agree and would welcome more info on this wonderful piece from anyone so inclined.[/QUOTE
> [/I]
> The recording that I have is on the Harmonia Mundi budget label-Musique d`abord It was recorded in 1984 or around that time.The performers are well known for the time. The CD has the Piano Trio as well. As for the sound,very good for its time


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## aussiebushman

Of the two recordings I have, my favorite is also the Harmonia Mundi on Vinyl. HM1116. Yes, it was released in 1984 but actually recorded as a joint production of HM and Radio France in December 1982 in Studio 106 at French Radio House.

Described on the sleeve notes as " . . a rich, generous and attractive work that belongs among the great compositions of the French school and easily holds its own beside the piano quartets of D'Indy, Faure or Saint Saens"


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## Roger Knox

I've just listened to the performance of the _Chausson Piano Quartet_ at your link; both the work and the performance excel. The solemn return of the theme at the first movement's close is very effective. On a grey misty day, the slow movement seems to fit the mood of the moment and exalt it! In addition to the Harmonia Mundi recording, the one coupling of it with the Saint-Saens _Piano Quartet in B-Flat Major_ by the Schubert Quartet on Chandos (2016) has received good reviews.


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## kyjo

aussiebushman said:


> Neglected to mention the Chausson Opus 30 Piano Quartet and no one else seems to have included it in a "favorites" list. Sure, Chausson was manic-depressive and earlier works were heavily influenced by Cesar Frank and by Wagner but by 1897 he had pretty much developed a style of his own. I'm not suggesting that Chausson deserves to be considered in the very "top rank" but it is interesting and lovely music.


Indeed, the Chausson Piano Quartet is a lovely work, and is nearly as fine as his more famous (but still underrated) _Concert_ for violin, piano, and string quartet. Like the _Concert_, it has an especially moving slow movement.


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## aussiebushman

Someone earlier mentioned the Brahms G Minor piano quartet from around 1957. Joachim did not greatly like the first movement and accused Brahms of using "material left over from a previous composition" Personally. I think the first movement is splendid.

I am now listening to the excellent Columbia recording of Rudolph Serkin with members of the Busch quartet 33CX 1012


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## id0ntmatter

I really like Rubinstein's Piano Quartets and Czerny's Piano Quartet in C Minor. Honestly the amount of piano quartets I'd love to play/study is endless.


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## MusicSybarite

id0ntmatter said:


> I really like Rubinstein's Piano Quartets and Czerny's Piano Quartet in C Minor. Honestly the amount of piano quartets I'd love to play/study is endless.


The two piano quartets of Rubinstein are definitely outstanding.


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## Roger Knox

With every re-hearing of the _Piano Quartet in D Minor_, Op. 8 (1880) by Polish composer *Zygmunt Noskowski (1846-1909)* my admiration grows! Even as one notes the Brahmsian aspects of the opening movement, this composer's characteristic fluency with the medium, balance of the instruments, and addition of interesting touches suggests individuality. The beautiful and touching slow movement shows true mastery of good old melody, harmony and counterpoint; at the ends of phrases a little DE-daaa rhythm implies a Slavic language as in the Song to the Moon of Dvorak's _Russalka_. The scherzo and the joyous finale suggest folk dancing, while the trio of the former has an intriguing "music box" quality. Played impeccably by the Polish Piano Quartet on this 1997 Olympia CD, which also includes the _Piano Quartet_ of *Wladyslaw Zelenski* -- a real find!


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## Quartetfore

Roger Knox said:


> With every re-hearing of the _Piano Quartet in D Minor_, Op. 8 (1880) by Polish composer *Zygmunt Noskowski (1846-1909)* my admiration grows! Even as one notes the Brahmsian aspects of the opening movement, this composer's characteristic fluency with the medium, balance of the instruments, and addition of interesting touches suggests individuality. The beautiful and touching slow movement shows true mastery of good old melody, harmony and counterpoint; at the ends of phrases a little DE-daaa rhythm implies a Slavic language as in the Song to the Moon of Dvorak's _Russalka_. The scherzo and the joyous finale suggest folk dancing, while the trio of the former has an intriguing "music box" quality. Played impeccably by the Polish Piano Quartet on this 1997 Olympia CD, which also includes the _Piano Quartet_ of *Wladyslaw Zelenski* -- a real find!


The Zelenski Piano Quartet was recorded about 6 or so years ago by Hyperion, with another Polish work. If you go the labels web site, you can hear some brief excerpts of the recording.


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> The Zelenski Piano Quartet was recorded about 6 or so years ago by Hyperion, with another Polish work. If you go the labels web site, you can hear some brief excerpts of the recording.


Thank you, Quartetfore! The _Piano Quartet in G Minor_ by *Wladyslaw Zelenski (1837-1921)* is recorded by Szymanowski Quartet members and pianist Jonathan Plowright on Hyperion, and what I heard in a live upload by the same players is outstanding -- they express the work's romantic passion and play the fast movements immaculately, with flair and high energy. The companion work is virtuoso pianist/composer Juliusz Zarebski's exceptional _Piano Quintet in C Minor_. In the Zelenski I especially like the third movement that program notes identify as a mazurka, featuring the composer's imaginative twists and turns. The first two movements are exciting but less individualistic, while the finale is like a tarantella with slow interludes. Though not as adventurous as Noskowski's piano quartet, the Zelenski is a composition of similar accomplishment and I've certainly enjoyed both of them immensely.


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## Roger Knox

The _Piano Quartet in B-Flat Major_, op. 18 (1809) by the young *Carl Maria von Weber (1786-1826)* receives royal treatment on a 2013 Hyperion CD that also includes the Six Violin Sonatas. The players in the latter, Isabelle Faust (violin) and Alexander Melnikov (fortepiano) also lead the top-rate quartet; the group gives a performance on period instruments that is not only technically and emotionally convincing but also incorporates tempo modification in suitable ways, evoking opera recitative, keyboard improvisation, or melodic string rubato as appropriate.

It's a high-spirited, harmonically adventurous work with (tongue-in-cheek?) Beethovenish sforzandos, and rustic tunes set off by a little recurring refrain in the scherzo. Having been underrated previously, now is the time to enjoy this composition and recognize its significance in the transition from classical to romantic chamber music!


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## MusicSybarite

Roger Knox said:


> With every re-hearing of the _Piano Quartet in D Minor_, Op. 8 (1880) by Polish composer *Zygmunt Noskowski (1846-1909)* my admiration grows! Even as one notes the Brahmsian aspects of the opening movement, this composer's characteristic fluency with the medium, balance of the instruments, and addition of interesting touches suggests individuality. The beautiful and touching slow movement shows true mastery of good old melody, harmony and counterpoint; at the ends of phrases a little DE-daaa rhythm implies a Slavic language as in the Song to the Moon of Dvorak's _Russalka_. The scherzo and the joyous finale suggest folk dancing, while the trio of the former has an intriguing "music box" quality. Played impeccably by the Polish Piano Quartet on this 1997 Olympia CD, which also includes the _Piano Quartet_ of *Wladyslaw Zelenski* -- a real find!


I've checked out the Noskowski's Piano Quartet in D minor. It could easily be a masterpiece. I liked a lot!


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## kyjo

Cross-posted from the "pieces that have blown you away recently" thread:

*Taneyev's Piano Quartet.* I had previously heard Taneyev's Fourth Symphony and one of his string quartets (can't remember which), neither of which made nearly as much of an impression on me as the Piano Quartet. It starts off in E flat major (!) with an imperious piano introduction, which eventually and brilliantly modulates to the home key of E major. The real heart of the work, though, is the exquisite slow movement, which features a lovely, memorable melody first played by the violin and later played by the whole ensemble at the climax. This is goosebump-inducing stuff! The finale is a bit long-winded perhaps, but ends quietly and movingly with a recollection of the theme from the slow movement. Really special music indeed!


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## Roger Knox

Yes kyjo, I agree with you about the Taneyev Piano Quartet. It belongs in the Piano Quartet Pantheon!

A much slighter work I've been listening to is Franz Schubert's _Adagio and Rondo Concertante,_ D. 487 (1816) for piano quartet, which can be heard here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=schubert+adagio+and+rondo+concertante

I didn't know this work, written by Schubert at age 18, but it is fully accomplished and deft with a solemn adagio and sprightly rondo. The main action is in the piano part, while the string players get a bit of a break. Good to have a lighter work by a great composer when many romantic piano quartets are long, difficult and "heavy." It could be a concert opener; I haven't heard it on disc but there are many recordings to be found browsing the usual comprehensive vendors of classical music. It's sometimes paired with the "Trout" Quintet as in:

- quartet led by Jorg Demus on fortepiano; Gramola, 2011
- _Naturally Schubert_: budget-priced recording that further adds Schubert lieder, on Atma Classique, 2008

Another approach is including it with solo piano works as in:

- Sebastian Knauer and Resonanz Ensemble, also including Schubert Impromptus and "Forgotten Sonata in C" D. 916b; Berlin Classics, 2007


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## aussiebushman

Roger - I have found your various posts to be interesting and generally informative BUT "Good to have a lighter work by a great composer when many romantic piano quartets are long, difficult and "heavy." How in the name of God did you arrive at that conclusion? 

To name just a few composers that would refute your argument:

Dvorak
Faure
Chausson
Saint Saens


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## Roger Knox

aussiebushman said:


> Roger - I have found your various posts to be interesting and generally informative BUT "Good to have a lighter work by a great composer when many romantic piano quartets are long, difficult and "heavy." How in the name of God did you arrive at that conclusion?
> 
> To name just a few composers that would refute your argument:
> 
> Dvorak
> Faure
> Chausson
> Saint Saens


I appreciate your posts too! Point taken, you are right. I withdraw that comment. I was probably thinking of an excellent piano quartet called Ensemble Made in Canada who on their programs includes lighter romances, rondos, or variations for various combinations as well as piano quartets. But that's just them, doesn't apply generally.


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## aussiebushman

As one Colonial to another, all is mutually forgiven! Long live the piano quartet (and quintet)

In passing, I'm currently listening to a full set of Haydn quartets played by the Dekany quartet - all these excellent recordings acquired form a seller who just did not know what he was selling

Cheers from Oz

Alan


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## Enthusiast

The Schnittke Piano Quartet is a good one. It's a short piece "after Malher" but very effective. The Schumann, not heard as often as the piano quintet, is another great one. And I'm happy to join all the other fans for the 2nd Dvorak piano quartet. The three from Brahms are, of course, great. I find them very rich - like rich food, not works to indulge in too often. No such worry with the two from Mozart.


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## Roger Knox

Erroneus post . . . . . . . . . . . . .


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## Roger Knox

aussiebushman said:


> As one Colonial to another, all is mutually forgiven!


Thank you, Alan.

From the Colonies
Roger


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## Roger Knox

Until coming to TalkClassical my knowledge of the piano quartet repertoire was pretty much what's described in the first paragraph of this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/05/arts/the-piano-quartet-gets-a-new-boost.html

Note the role of the Cantilena Chamber Players in reviving the piano quartet: we owe them a lot! Their repertoire covered both the 19th and 20th centuries. An inspiring example of the beneficial revival of overlooked works!


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## aussiebushman

Excellent article Roger. Thank you


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## Roger Knox

aussiebushman said:


> Excellent article Roger. Thank you


Here's another resource I just discovered:

http://www.editionsilvertrust.com/pdfs/Guide-to-Piano-Quartets.pdf

The Guide gives information and comments on individual piano quartets (up to around 1920), something I've sought for several months. Haven't looked at it closely, but it looks pretty good. Some favourites aren't there, and the judgements are of course subjective. But now that its out there I shall increase focus on _recordings_, rather than duplicate what's in the Guide on compositions and composers, and continue more easily now.

Anything new or exciting in what seemed to be the small & genteel Piano Quartet niche? I bet there is -- keep posting!


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## Fredx2098

Feldman: Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello
Brahms: Piano Quartets 1-3
Messiaen: Quatuor pour la Fin du Temps


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## eternum1968

I love Mozart piano quartets.
But the Brahms ones, too


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## MusicSybarite

Having discovered the early Symphony in F major by Dohnányi, this time I decided to explore his chamber music and I've stumbled upon the also early Piano Quartet in F sharp minor. My impressions were it is even better than his Piano Quintet No. 1 in C minor, full of passion, catchy themes and Brahmsian in spirit. A rather good work for a young composer. Dohnányi was definitely a gifted genius, plenty of compositions are proof of his undeniable talent, like this Piano Quartet.


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## Quartetfore

MusicSybarite said:


> Having discovered the early Symphony in F major by Dohnányi, this time I decided to explore his chamber music and I've stumbled upon the also early Piano Quartet in F sharp minor. My impressions were it is even better than his Piano Quintet No. 1 in C minor, full of passion, catchy themes and Brahmsian in spirit. A rather good work for a young composer. Dohnányi was definitely a gifted genius, plenty of compositions are proof of his undeniable talent, like this Piano Quartet.


His 2nd String Quartet has one of those themes that will stick in your head for days. It`s in the first movement.


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## Roger Knox

Thanks for an excellent find! The Dohnanyi Piano Quartet in F# Minor (1894) is indeed a wonderful accomplishment by the 17-year-old composer. In the first movement, the contrast of a lyrical German-style opening with a dance-like Hungarian Gypsy* section, with the resulting interplay, is quite different from Brahms's practice. The scherzo and finale also have Gypsy music traits, e.g. syncopation and the raised 4th note of the scale. The Adagio lament is extraordinarily mature. 
* using Gypsy for the music and Roma for the people. Both Dohnanyi and Franz Schmidt (ethnically Hungarian) were from Pressberg (now Bratislava) which had a significant Roma population.
As for recordings, the Notos Quartet 2017 release _Hungarian Treasures_ on the RCA Red Seal label, including also Kodaly's Intermezzo for String Trio and Bartok's early Piano Quartet, has received raves. The Dohnanyi Piano Quartet I have heard is a 2003 Hungaroton Classic recording of high quality by Istvan Kassai and members of the Auer String Quartet.


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## MusicSybarite

^^^^I also have that recording of Hungaroton. Glad you liked it!


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## Roger Knox

There are many paths into the forest and the one called Piano Quartet continues to intrigue me! Having now listened to the early Saint-Saens Piano Quartet No. 1 in E Major (1851-53), I'm glad that are at least two good recordings because I've fallen in love with this work, completed when the composer was 18. It is the one mentioned in an earlier post that was re-discovered in 1992, replacing the B-flat Major Piano Quartet as his No. 1. The first movement bridges classical and early Romantic tendencies, with a particular French sweetness. The second's melody is sublime, lyrical simplicity itself, and the last is of just the right length and interest to round off a compact whole (no _longueurs_ here!). The Quartetto Avos version on Brilliant Classics (2014) is smooth and nuanced. I've only heard tasters from the Mozart Quartet CD (2009) on DG Gold, which seems to emphasize liveliness and rich sonority more. Both recordings include the Piano Quartet in B-flat major, now No. 2, but the Mozart Quartet's has Saint-Saens' marvelous Barcarolle for piano quartet as well. Oh! and, has anyone yet found the meowing cat(s) in the B-flat piano quartet, second movement?


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## San Antone

All of the piano quartets written by:

Brahms
Faure
Schumann


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## Roger Knox

San Antone, I think most of the posters on this thread agree with you, perhaps adding Mozart and/or Dvorak. Then it gets trickier.


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## Roger Knox

Josquin13 said:


> However, more off the beaten path, other favorites have included the Op. 7 and Op. 14 Piano Quartets by Johann Schobert, who met the young Mozart in Paris in the 1760s, and whose three piano quartets likely served as models for Mozart's own. Certainly Schobert's deserve to be better known, I may even prefer them to Mozart's. There's a very good recording from Chiara Banchini and Ensemble 415 on Harmonia Mundi that I'd recommend. It's on YT.
> https://www.amazon.com/Schobert-Qua...r=1-1&keywords=schobert+ensemble+415+banchini


Josquin13, Thank you for for passing along your knowledge of piano quartets, including the two Schoberts. I'm sorry for taking so long but I've just now listened and like them very much! Having two upper strings allows for neat suspensions and imitation between the instruments. The cello is still like a basso continuo (as in the Haydn trios). I haven't found the third Schobert. His quartets are better than those by two others of this ilk -- Jean-Frederic Edelmann (1749-1794) and Johann Christian Bach.


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## Roger Knox

The Piano Quartet in E-Flat Major, Op. 56 (1804) by *Jan Ladislav Dusik* (Dussek) indicates the composer's outstanding pianism, but also features plenty of interesting harmony and interplay with the strings. Its slow movement is an attractive Larghetto where the piano weaves ornamentation around melodic strings. Lyricism and virtuosity characterize the rondo finale. I prefer the reading by Hanus Barton and the Apollon Quartet on YT to the recording on the Camerata label.


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## Roger Knox

*Carl Czerny (1791-1856)* composed the remarkable Piano Quartet Op. 148 in C Minor, which was recorded live in 2002 by virtuoso pianist Anton Kuerti with well-known Canadian chamber musicians Barry Schiffman, Marina Hoover, and Lesley Robertson. It was released in 2017 by Doremi Records on the 3CD set: _Carl Czerny: A Rediscovered Genius_; movements exist separately on YT. Kuerti, whose career was ended by a stroke a few years ago, has been a long-time advocate of Czerny's music. I'm not going to comment further yet but invite remarks or questions!


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## KenOC

I listened to the Czerny Piano Quartet, a work I was unfamiliar with. It's a pretty big and sprawling piece in four movements with a lot of energy and some unsubtle nods to Beethoven (a friend, if I remember right). A very good work and much to my liking. Thanks!


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## Roger Knox

KenOC said:


> I listened to the Czerny Piano Quartet, a work I was unfamiliar with. It's a pretty big and sprawling piece in four movements with a lot of energy and some unsubtle nods to Beethoven (a friend, if I remember right). A very good work and much to my liking. Thanks!


Yes, in the opening movement the da-da-da-DA figure evokes Beethoven, Czerny's teacher. The sheer energy of perpetual motion in the piano is overwhelming. I like the work as you do. Checking Czerny out, he in turn taught Liszt and Leschitizky who became the most sought-after piano pedagogues of their time. Czerny is amazing, but now pianists meet him through one or more of his multitudinous piano studies rather than in his most interesting music.


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## Roger Knox

*Update: Piano Quartets by Composers Born Before 1800*

After listening to the main piano quartets by composers born in the 18th-century, another "neglected composers" scenario seems to have emerged. I mean that discovering excellent recordings of fine piano quartets by Dussek (b. 1760), Hummel (b. 1778), Ries (b. 1783), Kuhlau (b. 1786), and Czerny (b. 1791) is especially exciting, each composer having a particular profile. Like Czerny: Fastest Perpetual Motion Artist before Mendelssohn.

These composers are not unknown, but their piano quartets are neglected! More to come . . .


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## Roger Knox

Taking a step backwards, *C.P.E. Bach (1714-1788)* composed three piano quartets as his last instrumental compositions. Because they're for Flute, Viola, Cello, and Keyboard, the Quartets in A-, D+, and G+ (1788; Helm nos. 537-539) sometimes are overlooked. But they're fine works in which the shift from Baroque to Classical style has been achieved. I like the A- and especially the D+ best. Interesting features are frequent key changes, _Generalpausen_ (rests for a complete bar), and a sense of "musical conversation" at times. Check out recordings on period instruments at the usual locations!


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## Roger Knox

*Prince Louis-Ferdinand of Prussia (1772-1806)* was a distinguished composer and pianist who died leading his army in the Napoleonic Wars. He wrote the following works for piano quartet:

Andante with Variations for Piano Quartet in B-Flat Major, Op. 4 (pub. 1806) -- an attractive work, the variations hold my attention
Piano Quartet in E-Flat Major, Op. 5 (pub. 1806) -- a genial and times highly expressive work, a bit long
Piano Quartet in F Minor, Op. 6 (pub. 1806) -- in my opinion the best of the three. Opening movement has excellent contrasts of major and minor keys, piano part is idiomatic and polished. Menuetto is serious and has subtle key changes. Adagio's melody is distinguished, the atmosphere nocturnal. Finale ends with a surprise . . .

Performances by Horst Goebel with the Joachim Quartet and the Camerata Quartet are fluent and capture the style well!


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## Roger Knox

Quartetfore said:


> I like just about all of the works listed, but I would add the last of the three early works that Beethoven composed. Its short about 17 minutes, but a fun work to hear.


Kind of skipped over most early piano quartets until recently. I agree about WoO 3 being Beethoven's best. WoO 1 is derivative but in WoO 2 you start to hear the "voice of Beethoven." WoO 3 I've listened to several times with pleasure!


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## Roger Knox

*Friedrich Kuhlau's (1786-1832)* three piano quartets are fine works by a composer underrated and misunderstood by some. As with Czerny, pianists have encountered Kuhlau early on as a sonatina composer, yet he did much more. Spending many of his years in Denmark, he wrote excellent chamber music and works for the flute. Later in life he became a friend of Beethoven whose influence shows. In Piano Quartet #1 in C Minor, Op. 32 (1821) one commentator finds a suggestion of Beethoven's Third Piano concerto. I hear a little of the Piano Trio Op. 1, No. 3 in the first movement and of the Pathetique Sonata, op. 13 in the other two. But Kuhlau emerges on his own in the slow movement's mysterious procession. and in the finale's excellent fugue. The Piano Quartet #2 in A Major, Op. 50 (1823) is a more genial counterpart, while #3 in G Minor Op. 108 (1829) opens with a broad sweep and convincing contrast of moods, to be followed by wonderful middle and closing movements.

Concerning recordings, samples of the Copenhagen Piano Quartet's #1 and #2 on Dacapo (2015) indicate a fresh, dynamic, and expressive reading. Snippets of the same works by the New Budapest Quartet with pianist Ilona Prunyi on Marco Polo (1992) capture the work's lyricism, but in slower tempi and an older style of playing. I listened to all three quartets complete on the 1997 Dacapo release featuring pianist Elisabeth Westenholz and Danish string players. Everything is very clean and tempi are fast, which I appreciate. But here the emotional side of the music does not convince me -- certainly there's room for a new recording of #3 anyway.


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## Roger Knox

Through family connections, *Ferdinand Ries (1784-1838)* was associated with Beethoven from an early age as a student and later as a professional pianist and composer. The influence shows in his three piano quartets. The Piano Quartet No. 1, Op. 13 in F Minor has a striking slow introduction. followed by a forceful allegro movement with effective piano writing and development of motifs. In the closing movement, a yearning rondo theme in the natural minor mode contrasts with episodes in the tonic major key where the tight fugal writing is convincing. There is no third statement of the theme. only direct entry into a virtuosic coda. Ries knows sonata form well but takes liberties with it; that is one of his early romantic style characteristics.

The opening movement of the Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 17 in E-Flat Major offers more complex development and modulation. The evocative slow movement is a lament and meditation, softened by a brighter major key section, and the closing Rondeau is notable for its folk-like, innocent piano theme over pizzicato strings. Saving the best for last, the four-movement Piano Quartet No. 3, Op. 129 in E-Minor is on a grander scale, including a light scherzo and a finale whose syncopated theme is broken by a mysterious one-bar "general pause." Musical events are interesting and counterpoint effective. It is simply the comparison with Beethoven that, in my view, leads to this composer's relative neglect. There is a good recording of this work together with Ries's Piano Quintet by the Klavierquintett Wien on Camerata (2007). The Mendelssohn Trio Berlin with violist David Raiskin has produced a fluent, well-balanced release of all the first two piano quartets on CPO (2003).


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## Roger Knox

I doubt Swedish composers have received the international recognition they deserve. For example, a performance of William Stenhammar's Intermezzo from the cantata _Sången_ on the Toronto Symphony's main program this April was the orchestra's first acknowledgement of that composer. As for *Franz Berwald (1796-1868)*, his symphonies and chamber music have been revived on recordings for a long time, but with what impact I'm not sure. So I came to his three-movement Quartet for Piano, Clarinet, Horn, and Bassoon, Op. 1 in E-Flat (1819) with no background. The work strikes me as unusual and adventurous in its harmonic and formal sense. Perhaps that is because it's an early work by the self-taught composer, and maybe there is an analogy with early Berlioz as far as harmony is concerned. Also notable in the last movement especially are the many rhetorical phrases and abrupt pauses, apparently because opera was his model. So, lots more to learn of Berwald.
The Gaudier Ensemble recording on Hyperion (1996) is clear and well in tune, and on modern instruments which was a benefit in encountering this work for the first time.


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## Roger Knox

After checking out Johann Schobert's piano quartets I decided to expand my knowledge of the early years of this medium. Previously I knew only piano quartets by Mozart and Beethoven, but I've found this encounter with other composers really rewarding! Basil Smallman's very useful _The Piano Quartet and Quintet: Style, Structure and Scoring_ (1996) gives a good, compact account of the piano quartet's development from the Baroque _Sonate en quatour_ into the twentieth century.

Happy listening and I'd love to read your comments! Here's a list of composers mentioned on this thread born before 1800, in order of birth date:

*C. P. E. Bach
J. C. Bach
Schobert
Edelmann
Mozart
Dusic (Dussek)
Beethoven
Louis-Ferdinand (Prince of Prussia)
Hummel
Ries
Kuhlau
Weber
Czerny
Berwald
Schubert*


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## aussiebushman

Roger Knox said:


> *Long post but worth it I hope:* Before getting back to Mendelssohn, the Saint-Saens phone line is a-ringing! My friend Camille seems to approve of my take on the great Felix, but he's upset that I've failed to mention his own *Piano Quartet No. 2 in B-Flat Major*, op. 41. So please hold on while I tell him that I was saving that work, which deserves multiple hearings, for later . . .


Because I have just listened again to the Saint Saens B flat major quartet (for maybe 50 times) I went back over this thread to see what other said about it and was really surprised that it took so long to make the list, The version I have on LP is with the Cantelina Chamber Players but I have other performances on CD and never tire of this work.

It was one of Saint Saens later compositions (1875) and described by Philip Naegale (the viola player) as "a model of concise form and lucid sonority... It fuses Baroque and Classical traditions ... and escapes any taint of pomp, pathos or pretense"


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## jeffpianoman

*Juon piano quartet #2*

I really love Paul Juon's piano quartet #2, opus 50 (1912). It's sort of post-romantic (romantic but modern-sounding), generally cheery in tone but complex and with some underlying sadness. It's got a little bit of everything. The first movement begins with a lively, jaunty section, that morphs into a lushly and passionately romantic section and ends with light melancholy. The scherzo (titled "Fluttering Hearts") is a Harry Potteresque dance, just irresistible. The super-passionate opening of the slow third movement leads to a folk/popular song-like middle section, then returns to the passion before a gorgeous fade-out. The last movement starts in a highly chromatic and almost dissonant 5/4, gradually becomes more melodic on its way to a 3/4 section sounding like a pre-war Viennese waltz (a la Richard Strauss, not Johann Strauss). Check it out! Juon's chamber music is not all great, but this is a great piece (see also his first two piano trios). It's fun to play, also.


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## Roger Knox

jeffpianoman said:


> I really love Paul Juon's piano quartet #2, opus 50 (1912). It's sort of post-romantic (romantic but modern-sounding), generally cheery in tone but complex and with some underlying sadness. It's got a little bit of everything. The first movement begins with a lively, jaunty section, that morphs into a lushly and passionately romantic section and ends with light melancholy. The scherzo (titled "Fluttering Hearts") is a Harry Potteresque dance, just irresistible. The super-passionate opening of the slow third movement leads to a folk/popular song-like middle section, then returns to the passion before a gorgeous fade-out. The last movement starts in a highly chromatic and almost dissonant 5/4, gradually becomes more melodic on its way to a 3/4 section sounding like a pre-war Viennese waltz (a la Richard Strauss, not Johann Strauss). Check it out! Juon's chamber music is not all great, but this is a great piece (see also his first two piano trios). It's fun to play, also.


Thanks jeff for your excellent post. I just listened to Juon's other Piano Quartet, the late-romantic Rhapsody, op. 31 and very much like it -- especially the outer movements. You've persuaded me to return to piano quartets, beginning with Juon's op. 50!


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## Roger Knox

Roger Knox said:


> *Long post but worth it I hope:* Before getting back to Mendelssohn, the Saint-Saens phone line is a-ringing! My friend Camille seems to approve of my take on the great Felix, but he's upset that I've failed to mention his own *Piano Quartet No. 2 in B-Flat Major*, op. 41. So please hold on while I tell him that I was saving that work, which deserves multiple hearings, for later . . .
> 
> Yes, now back to op. 41 in B-Flat Major. It _is Number Two_, since the discovery in 1992 of the very early *Piano Quartet in E Major* that is now No. 1. But B-Flat No. 2 still is given as No. 1 sometimes, so one needs to check for the key and opus number. End of story, sort of.
> 
> Op. 41 in B-Flat Major is beautiful in instrumental sound and texture. The first movement is an intelligent conversation, though a rapid 2-note descending figure interrupts repeatedly (the descending-4th motif at the opening of Beethoven's Ninth . . . (hmmm? . . .). There is no slow movement; the second is instead a truly amazing contrapuntal _tour de force_. In the third movement scherzo, the 2-note figure recurs, but now with the second note accented (Beethoven's way) instead of the first . . . (hmmm?). The finale is an appropriately brilliant end to this terrific work. My theory is that the 2-note motifs are mouse squeaks (!) and further that a definite cat's "meow" in the work (can anyone find it?) gives it away.
> 
> I haven't heard the E Major Quartet, but Saint-Saens wrote an amazing *Barcarolle*, op. 108, which you MUST HEAR, otherwise I just may continue to write in capital letters!


I posted the above on the thread *Your Favorite Piano Quartets*, April 14, 2018. Nearly three years have passed yet on a recent evening this thought struck me suddenly: _*"Nobody has found the cats!"*_. Since I can't sit on the secret any longer, here they are! Listen to the 4th movement of the Saint-Saens Piano Quartet no. 2 in B-flat major, op 22 at 21:57 and 22:05 ...





As for all the rest -- about Beethoven, the 2-note motif, mouse squeaks -- I still think it applies, but haven't yet turned up any source that supports this speculation.


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## SearsPoncho

Roger Knox said:


> I posted the above on the thread *Your Favorite Piano Quartets*, April 14, 2018. Nearly three years have passed yet on a recent evening this thought struck me suddenly: _*"Nobody has found the cats!"*_. Since I can't sit on the secret any longer, here they are! Listen to the 4th movement of the Saint-Saens Piano Quartet no. 2 in B-flat major, op 22 at 21:57 and 22:05 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for all the rest -- about Beethoven, the 2-note motif, mouse squeaks -- I still think it applies, but haven't yet turned up any source that supports this speculation.


No need to continue writing in capital letters unless you really want to do so. I tried to open your link but Youtube said it was a private video and I did not have the special access necessary to open it. I'll have to look for my Secret Service password to gain entry. No big deal because I have a cd with the Fine Arts Quartet and Christina Ortiz on piano. It has the B flat Piano Quartet, Quintet and the Barcarolle. I just listened to the Quartet and enjoyed every bit of it. The Piano Trios are also exceptional.


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## Roger Knox

SearsPoncho said:


> No need to continue writing in capital letters unless you really want to do so. I tried to open your link but Youtube said it was a private video and I did not have the special access necessary to open it. I'll have to look for my Secret Service password to gain entry. No big deal because I have a cd with the Fine Arts Quartet and Christina Ortiz on piano. It has the B flat Piano Quartet, Quintet and the Barcarolle. I just listened to the Quartet and enjoyed every bit of it. The Piano Trios are also exceptional.


Thank you. I think the excellent Fine Arts Quartet & Christina Ortiz recording is the one in the video so, no loss. Glad you like the work. But what about the cat and mice (all in the strings by the way)? My bold letters and capital letters are used because everyone politely ignores my efforts to draw attention to them. We know Saint-Saens had a sly sense of humour, especially concerning animals -- anyway, if you think I'm right that they are there, please let me know.


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## Bruckner Anton

1. Mozart g minor #1
2. Brahms #1
3. Mozart #2
4. Brahms #3
5. Brahms #2
6. Schumann
7. Others' such as Dvorak, Faure and Beethoven


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## Andante Largo

*My Top 10 Favorite Piano Quartets*

Brahms - Piano Quartet No. 2 in A major, Op. 28 (1861)
Rheinberger - Piano Quartet in E-flat major, Op. 38 (1870?)
Brahms - Piano Quartet No. 3 in C minor, Op. 60 (1875)
Saint-Saëns - Piano Quartet in B-flat major, Op. 41 (1875?)
Noskowski - Piano Quartet in D minor, Op. 8 (1879)
Sibelius - Piano Quartet in D minor, JS 157 (1884)
Fauré - Piano Quartet No. 2 in G minor, Op. 45 (1886)
Chausson - Piano Quartet in A major, Op. 30 (1897)
Żeleński - Piano Quartet in C minor, Op. 61 (1907 ca.)
Howells - Piano Quartet in A minor, Op. 21 (1916 rev. 1936)

Honorable mention: 
Elsner - Piano Quartet in E-flat major, Op. 15 (1805)


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## Kreisler jr

Schumann E flat major
Brahms #1 g minor
Brahms #3 c minor
Dvoraks #2 E flat major
Mozart g minor
Fauré #2 g minor (the first one is also nice but a bit overplayed)
Brahms #2
Dvorak #1 D major (underrated, maybe his first great chamber work)
Mozart E flat major
Chausson A major (although his concert/sextet seems the strongest chamber music)

I'd have to re-listen to Suk, Saint-Saens, Ries, Rheinberger (if I have it). I love the CPE Bach (by some margin his best chamber pieces, I think), but they are in a different combo, (flute, viola, keyboard) and would not be called *quartets* nowadays but trios, so I am not considering them here. The 3 early Beethoven pieces (written when he was 15 and modelled mostly after Mozart violin sonatas) are quite good as well.


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## Brahmsian Colors

There are four piano quartets I enjoy enough to truly consider favorites:

Brahms No. 1 in G minor, opus 25; No. 2 in A major, opus 26 and No. 3 in C minor, opus 60 
Dvorak No. 1 in D major, opus 23


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## Saturn

My favorites are the Mozart and Brahms. They are touching.


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## vincula

I personally think that *Mendelssohn's piano quartets* somehow go under the radar. I find myself listening to them quite often. They're really enjoyable!

Regards,

Vincula


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## Olias

I really love Dvorak's Eb Major Piano Quartet. Harmonically, it is all over the place.


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