# Granate's Bruckner Challenge - Symphony No.7



## Granate

*No.7 Results:*
Decent
46th: Horenstein BPO
45th: Schuricht ORTF
44th: Jochum RCO
43rd: Harnoncourt WPO
42nd: Klemperer PO
41st: Solti CSO
40th: Szell WPO
39th: Solti WPO
38th: Tennstedt LPO
37th: Blomstedt LGO
36th: Jochum BPO
35th: Barbirolli HO
34th: Matačić CzPO
33rd: Tintner RSNO

Good
32nd: Wand BPO
31st: Celibidache BPO
30th: Gielen SWR SO BBuF
29th: Giulini WPO
28th: Young HPO
27th: Bertini KRSO
26th: Dohnányi ClO
25th: Schuricht RSOS
24th: Skrowaczewski RSOS
23rd: Giulini BPO 
22nd: Karajan WPO
21st: Maazel SOdBR
20th: Celibidache DG
19th: Matačić NHKSO
18th: Knappertsbusch WPO
17th: Asahina OPO
16th: Blomstedt SKD
15th: Furtwängler BPO
14th: Celibidache WC
13th: Chailly RSOB (1p)
12th: Thielemann MPO
11th: Celibidache Sony (2p)

*TOP10*

_10th_









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Original Version, Ed. Haas)
*Cond. Herbert von Karajan, BPO, WC (1971/2012 HDTracks Edition)*

_Satisfying version with the strings and brass on point, spectacular woodwinds and a thundering Adagio._
*C+*

_9th_ (3p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Original Version, Ed. Haas)
*Cond. Günter Wand, KRSO, Sony (1980/2002 Remastered Edition)*

_Excellent conducting skills that shine in a rhythmic Scherzo and a powerful Finale. The attitude also appears during the Adagio._
*C+*

_8th_ (4p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Eugen Jochum, SKD, WC (1976/1990 Reissue Edition)*

_There are definetely many issues going on with the brass, not off-key, but unharmonic. However, both the strings and Jochum's attitude during the Adagio not only save but create a distinct recording that I could either like or dislike._
*C+*

_7th_ (5p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Lorin Maazel, BPO, WC (1988)*

_Great development and brass, plus the slow tempo choice, the best for the Allegro and Adagio. It expands like oil, so satisfying..._
*C+*

_6th_ (6p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Daniel Barenboim, CSO, DG (1979)*

_Powerhouse version without overexposing that Chicago brass, thanks. The highlight is the progression inside the last Adagio orchestral explosion. It feels sublime._
*C+*


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## Granate

*TOP5 No.7*

Really good / Excellent

_TOP5_









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Karl Böhm, WPO, DG (1977/1990 Remastered Edition)*

_Close to the glory. Böhm finally takes it all from the Wiener, not being excellent in the Allegro or Scherzo but getting such a fantastic and emotional Adagio._
*C+*

_TOP4_ (7p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Bernard Haitink, RCO, Phillips (1978/2005 Reissue Edition)*

_The Haitink sound strikes again in the No.7. The Allegro might not give that hint, but the progression, power and control of the brass during the latter three movements are a joy ride._
*B-*

_*TOP3*_ (8p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Mario Venzago, BsSO, CPO (2010)*

_Little spectacular or great, but really compelling and devolping a clean sound that hits in the Adagio and takes over the Finale. Now both this and No.4 symphony are a double CD worth the purchase._
*B-*

_*TOP2*_ (9p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Giuseppe Sinopoli, SKD, DG (1993)*

_Sinopoli conducts this symphony like water flows in a river stream. It is contemplative but with a classic tempo and a lot of legato. Wonderful._
*B*

_*TOP1*_ (10p)









*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Original Version, Ed. Haas)
*Cond. Herbert von Karajan, BPO, DG (1975)*

_Details first: low-key strings playing in the background of the Adagio in amazing depth, timpani partying out during the right times in the Scherzo and epic brass in the Finale. The core: fabulous Adagio, loud as fireworks. And in conclusion, a must-have. The intensity is overwhelming._
*B+*



realdealblues said:


> [Klemperer's] 4th and 6th are great. His 7th is absolutely stellar! His studio 8th can be avoided for the most part...


I am feeling this post is going to be really controversial as not many fan favourites of the No.7 are scoring high. B7 from Karajan with the Wiener was one recording I really liked, but when I compare it to many other recordings it scores really low, not to say I am already giving up on realdeblues, seeming to be one of the many that won't agree with my choices (I can give the No.4, but the No.7??)

Celibidache has also been a disappointment. For me this symphony does not need more than one hour and 10 minutes. Except for the lush balance of the Sony Japan recording, his Adagios are annoyingly eternal:



Becca said:


> After reading about Celi for so many years, I finally took the plunge and watched the video of his return to the Berlin Phil followed by the video of the concert featuring the Bruckner 7th. I made it through the first movement and got a few minutes into the second before I decided that I had had enough and couldn't tolerate his tempi. You must realize that these comments comes from someone who puts Otto Klemperer high on my list of favorite conductors, even some of his later, slower recordings.


There are otherwise good news for fans of the *Böhm Wiener* recording, or *Jochum* and *Staatskapelle*, which for now it is my most overrated set. Both of these recordings successfuly represent what I call the "spiritual" spectrum of a Bruckner symphony. Each other are interchangeable, but I prefer Böhm even if Jochum SKD is weirdly ethereal. *Venzago* earns his point for a simple and clean recording that rivals with the *Chicago Barenboim*. Now, both *Haitink RCO* and way more *Karajan* with the *Berliner* for *Deutsche* win the prize for bombastic and spectacular B7s. Karajan's monstruous achievement earn my first place, but I should also mention the impressive *Sinopoli* recording that swims between the the three sides of the triangle, probably the most complete recording.

I hope you get to choose your B7 style from these.


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## Heck148

Bruckner Sym #7 is one of the greatest works in the symphony genre....
I have several favorites, all of which have their strong points -

Solti/CSO
von Matacic/CzPO
Walter/ColSO 
Tennstedt/CSO - live performance [archival set CSO in 20th Century]

The Solti is superb throughout...he was a master at the long buildup, the shattering climax, the drama and the flow of the music. Great playing from CSO, and... the Wagner tubas don't screw it up!! Heard Solti/CSO play this live in Carnegie Hall...amazing....

vonMatacic - great conductor - wonderful lift, phrasing buoyancy from CzPO, some delicious solo work from solo winds. 
Walter - my first exposure to the work, still holds up well

Tennstedt - this one is really quite magnificent...Tennstedt was, IMO, a conductor who could generate lots of passion, but rhythmically, sometimes very lax, even sloppy. not here...CSO is dead on....great Adagio - Tennstedt builds it beautifully, like Solti, and brings forth an amazing climax....the great CSO trumpets, Herseth et al, are unbelievable - they already playing FF, yet somehow manage to find more in the tank and up the dynamic by at least one more level in an unmatched crescendo..like Solti's, every movement is superbly done...

Note - these are great performances, but the best #7/III scherzo award goes to Barenboim/CSO, on DG...wonderful balance between sections, and the CSO has a rollicking time of it - the low brasses rumbling boisterously down the scales while the soaring brass, and pulsating strings drive it forward...


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## Granate

Heck148 said:


> Tennstedt - this one is really quite magnificent...Tennstedt was, IMO, a conductor who could generate lots of passion, but rhythmically, sometimes very lax, even sloppy. not here...CSO is dead on....great Adagio - Tennstedt builds it beautifully, like Solti, and brings forth an amazing climax....the great CSO trumpets, Herseth et al, are unbelievable - they already playing FF, yet somehow manage to find more in the tank and up the dynamic by at least one more level in an unmatched crescendo..like Solti's, every movement is superbly done...


I think Tennstedt is both a very good Mahler conductor and a superb Beethovenian, but you cannot conduct a Bruckner symphony like it was just Mahler.


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## Heck148

Granate said:


> I think Tennstedt is both a very good Mahler conductor and a superb Beethovenian, but you cannot conduct a Bruckner symphony like it was just Mahler.


In this case, he doesn't do that. The Bruckner 7 is really excellent, throughout...I heard Tennstedt/LondonPO perform Mahler 5 in Boston years ago...it was good, decent, but not up to the level of Abbado/LSO, or Solti/CSO, which was totally amazing....best concert I've ever heard.


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## Dr Johnson

I wonder where you'd place this version?


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## Granate

Dr Johnson said:


> I wonder where you'd place this version?


1. Ok, I'll take the suggestion, but please warn me sooner in Currently Listening.
2. What is it like? HIP?
3. Do you have any other Bruckner favourites that I could review in the round-up?
4. I'd love to be inside that picture


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## Vaneyes




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## Brahmsian Colors

Quote Originally Posted by realdealblues:
[Klemperer's] 4th and 6th are great. His 7th is absolutely stellar! His studio 8th can be avoided for the most part...

I also like his 4th, 6th and 7th very much, but his 8th  cuts and all, and a plodding finale


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## Granate

Vaneyes said:


>


*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Original Version, Ed. Haas)
*Cond. Herbert von Karajan, WPO, DG (1989)*

_The Scherzo has very good traits and the recording is good anyway, but I thought it could be way better than this listening. Dissapointed for the hype._
*C+*

For the characteristics of this version, I prefer Böhm way more.


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## Dr Johnson

Granate said:


> 1. Ok, I'll take the suggestion, but please warn me sooner in Currently Listening.
> 2. What is it like? HIP?
> 3. Do you have any other Bruckner favourites that I could review in the round-up?
> 4. I'd love to be inside that picture


1. Oops! Sorry! 
2. Not HIP.
3. No, you've already done Tintner.
4. According to the back cover of the CD the picture on the front is _"An Alpine Lake"_ by Karl Millner (1825-1894)


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## Granate

(Deleted for misunderstanding)


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## Brahmsian Colors

Slight "train de-railment" based on your misunderstanding. Oh well, no harm, no foul. :lol:


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## Granate

*Runnicles - Bruckner No.7*



Dr Johnson said:


> I wonder where you'd place this version?











*Bruckner*
Symphony No.7 in E major (1885 Version, Ed. Nowak)
*Cond. Donald Runnicles, BBC SSO, Hyperion (2012)*

_Features faster tempi and cleanness in the recording process, plus detailed woodwinds. Brass eats a little of the strings, but it is acceptable. I also hear good timpani vibes in the ending of the Allegro, so yes, I can enjoy._
*C*

*Place: 29th*, below Young HPO, above Giulini WPO.


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## hpowders

Granate said:


> I think Tennstedt is both a very good Mahler conductor and a superb Beethovenian, but you cannot conduct a Bruckner symphony like it was just Mahler.


Yes. Klaus Tennstedt was an excellent Mahler conductor.


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## Granate

hpowders said:


> Yes. Klaus Tennstedt was an excellent Mahler conductor.


If I just could find back my old posts about my Mahler challenge in September, admins!


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## hpowders

Granate said:


> If I just could find back my old posts about my Mahler challenge in September, admins!


I didn't know you had a Mahler challenge.


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## Granate

hpowders said:


> I didn't know you had a Mahler challenge.





Granate said:


> *Mahler*
> Symphony No.10 - Adagio
> *Cond. Klaus Tennstedt, LPO, WC (1980/1998 Re-Issue)*
> --
> *Mahler*
> Symphony No.10 - Adagio
> *Cond. Rafael Kubelík, SOdBR, DG (1969/2015 Remastered Edition)*
> --
> *Mahler*
> Symphony No.10 - Adagio
> *Cond. Pierre Boulez, CO, DG (2010/2013 Re-Issue)*
> 
> _*Bonus Adagio*: from the start, *Klaus Tennstedt* plays the one Adagio to keep. It has the same features as Symphony No.9, and hits all the spots with emotion. Pierre Boulez has worse orchestration but he does the last climax really well. Kubelík kinds of let go with the piece._
> 
> 
> 
> Pugg said:
> 
> 
> 
> You must be exhausted after al the hard work.
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of a yes. Symphonies from No.7 to No.9 were difficult to listen and more difficult to find differences between the versions, until I listened to the definitive performances. Some people say they do not stand listening to the same symphony even twice, while I did four, five or even eight times. For example, when I listened to Solti's 8th with Decca (4/8 planned recordings to listen), I wanted the challenge to end.
> 
> *Final results*:
> 
> 1st: Tennstedt (30p) (1+4+2+1+4+3+2+4+4+2+3)
> 2nd: Kubelík (27p) (4+1+4+3+1+1+4+3+1+4+1)
> 3rd: Boulez (26p) (2+3+3+4+2+2+3+2+2+1+2)
> 3rd: Barbirolli (24p) (3+2+1+2+3+4+1+0+3+3+0)
> 
> *Otto Klemperer*: Tops in Symphony No.7 and Das Lied von der Erde.
> *Georg Solti*: Tops in Symphony No.8.
> *Klaus Tennstedt*: Tops in Symphonies Nos. 2 (Live 1989), 5 (Studio) 9 and 10 (Adagio); complements in Nos. 6 and 8 (Studio and Live 1991).
> *Rafael Kubelík*: Tops in Symphonies Nos. 1 (DG), 3 (DG); complements in Symphonies Nos. 4 (DG), 7 (DG) and Das Lied von der Erde (Audite-BR).
> *Pierre Boulez*: Tops in Symphony No.4, complements in Symphonies Nos. 2 and 3. Reccomendable cycle for his consistency.
> *John Barbirolli*: Tops in Symphony No.6; complements in Symphonies Nos. 1 (JBS), 5 and 9. Interesting listen in No.2 (Testament BPO) and Das Lied von der Erde (with Ferrier in 1952).
> 
> _*My thoughts*: the first Mahler challenge after my Leonard Bernstein listenings has made me learn much more about the compositions than ever. I have found definitive performances (for their quality) on symphonies from 5 to 10. I will search in the spares for something else.
> Klaus *Tennstedt* may be the winner, but I do not think he is such a consistent Mahler conductor enough to encourage purchasing his box set, but on CD he has little else available, so it is the only way. Both Pierre *Boulez* and Rafael *Kubelík* for DG have shared the best of symphonies Nos. 1-4, except for No.2 where Kubelík has small mistakes and Boulez shines at his brightest in the finale.
> John *Barbirolli* made very few EMI recordings, and it is a shame. I cannot reccomend enough Symphonies Nos. 5, 9 and mostly No.6 with Metamorphosen. The quality is outstanding.
> Gustav Mahler has different traits in the symphonies that makes almost impossible to the listener to find a perfect cycle. Boulez is the one that comes closer and his sound is extraordinary. But I guess the one we should get is the Warner Classics release of Gustav Mahler: Complete works. It has some symphonies I have not heard yet but I am going to try soon (Giulini No.1, Rattle Nos.3&7, Klemperer No.2) and gems mentioned like Tennstedt (Nos. 5 & 8), Klemperer (DLVDE) and Barbirolli (Nos. 6 & 9).
> _
Click to expand...

Found it! That one was hard to get, I wish it was easier to browse.



Granate said:


> *Mahler*
> Symphony No.2 in C minor "Resurrection" Eureka!:trp:
> *Sol. Arleen Augér & Janet Baker
> Cond. Simon Rattle, CBSO&C, WC (1987)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Mahler*
> Symphony No.2 "Resurrection"
> *Sol. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf & Hilde Rössl-Majdan
> Cond. Otto Klemperer, PC&O, WC (1963/2012 Remastered Edition)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _I am delighted with this symphony, but not because of the conductor that seems to have the best performance for EMI/WC: *Klemperer*. His performance is very good indeed, but out of the "Allegro Maestoso" and the "Mit Aufschwung, aber nicht eilen", he pinches me very little, not even the soloists (Schwarzkopf is not enough to sell this version, "Resurrection" is always about the mezzo).
> 
> What could I say about *Simon Rattle*'s excercise? I am very pleased. I think now, saving Bertini, which I have not listened to yet, that this is the best Mahler No.2 version that EMI has released. Simon is as analitical as in "Titan". I would say that this is an approach very similar to Boulez later 2002 recording. But it is not him, and it is miles away from Tennstedt. This feels like the performance that Kubelík should have done, but always with the Rattle effect.
> The performance is "crystaline". In the Allegro Maestoso the brass messes a little but the intensity makes it forgivable. I do not think I have enjoyed more the playful "In ruhig fließender Bewegung". The soloists are very good: it counts with Janet Baker as mezzo. The symphony never lets itself go or focus on the most emotive notes. The CBSO has a superb playing, and the final chorus sings out with the right sounds to bring the glory at the end. Two symphonies and I am liking Rattle's style, so I should quickly check out the rest of his cycle._
> 
> In the M2 rank, Simon Rattle 1987 is only below Klaus Tennstedt in 1989, but very close. :clap:


And that's only for you, because this is about Bruckner!
(Also, I rank Deutche Grammophon Bernstein's Mahler No.3 & 4 as favourites)


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## hpowders

Granate said:


> Found it! That one was hard to get, I wish it was easier to browse.
> 
> And that's only for you, because this is about Bruckner!
> (Also, I rank Deutche Grammophon Bernstein's Mahler No.3 & 4 as favourites)


Thanks! It's nice to know these older posts are locked up on TC ewig.....ewig......ewig......ewig......ewig......


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## Pugg

I do admire you going trough all those recordings, fascinating reading well done.


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## realdealblues

Granate said:


> I am feeling this post is going to be really controversial as not many fan favourites of the No.7 are scoring high. B7 from Karajan with the Wiener was one recording I really liked, but when I compare it to many other recordings it scores really low, not to say I am already giving up on realdeblues, seeming to be one of the many that won't agree with my choices (I can give the No.4, but the No.7??)


We obviously listen for different things. Symphony No. 7 is on most days my favorite Bruckner symphony. I think I have close to 100 recordings of it. Chailly, Jochum (Dresden), and Klemperer round out my top 3, followed by Bohm, Karajan (tough to pick a favorite as I like things in each of his recordings) and Wand.


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## merlinus

Just finished listening to Jochum/RCGO in Tokyo (1986). Marvellous performance, and excellent SQ.


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## Brahmsian Colors

realdealblues said:


> We obviously listen for different things. Symphony No. 7 is on most days my favorite Bruckner symphony. I think I have close to 100 recordings of it. Chailly, Jochum (Dresden), and Klemperer round out my top 3, followed by Bohm, Karajan (tough to pick a favorite as I like things in each of his recordings) and Wand.


Klemperer, Jochum and Bohm are among my top choices as well. Another performance that few have listened to or even heard of is Oswald Kabasta's superb 1942 Bruckner 7th with the Munich Philharmonic (in mono sound of course) on the Preiser label. It might be very hard to get at a decent price now.


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## Bruckner Anton

Boehm's version can grab beginner's attention easily, due to the powerful sound in comparatively quiet section like the adagio. But it is mainly resulted from close mike and recording edition - the strings are simply too loud to be realistic. Also, the recording suffers from poor dynamic range, the sound is loud when the strings should be playing quietly, and is very limited in the climax of the adagio and in the scherzo.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

Celi is my current favorite. Nobody does the slow movement as well as he.


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## merlinus

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Celi is my current favorite. Nobody does the slow movement as well as he.


Just finished listening to Celi/MPO at Suntory Hall in Japan on SACD. The adagio transported me to realms beyond time and space, as though Bruckner's cathedrals of sound had no ceilings but were open to the stars and universe.

And the amazing sonics made a huge difference, compared with other wonderful interpretations (e.g. Jochum/CGO, Karajan/VPO).


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

merlinus said:


> Just finished listening to Celi/MPO at Suntory Hall in Japan on SACD. The adagio transported me to realms beyond time and space, as though Bruckner's cathedrals of sound had no ceilings but were open to the stars and universe.
> 
> And the amazing sonics made a huge difference, compared with other wonderful interpretations (e.g. Jochum/CGO, Karajan/VPO).


Have you compared the sound of SACD to the regular CD sound? I have the box set(3-9 plus Te Deum) in regular CD sound and am wondering if it's worth splurging $170 for the SACD version of 4, 6, 7 and 8.


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## merlinus

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Have you compared the sound of SACD to the regular CD sound? I have the box set(3-9 plus Te Deum) in regular CD sound and am wondering if it's worth splurging $170 for the SACD version of 4, 6, 7 and 8.


I have both. The EMI set has excellent sound, but not nearly as good as the SACDs. Not only is the SQ superior, but I can hear much more detail, and the instruments are very well captured.

No. 4 is from a different concert (in Vienna's Musikverein in Feb. 1989), and superior to the EMI performance. It is like hearing the symphony for the first time.

No. 6 was recorded in Munich in Nov. 1991, and is about the same as the EMI performance. 7 and 8 were both recorded in Suntory Hall.

But $170???? I ordered mine directly from Japan (either CDJapan or HMV Japan -- I do not recall which one), and including shipping it was less than $100, but that was a year or so ago.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet

merlinus said:


> I have both. The EMI set has excellent sound, but not nearly as good as the SACDs. Not only is the SQ superior, but I can hear much more detail, and the instruments are very well captured.
> 
> No. 4 is from a different concert (in Vienna's Musikverein in Feb. 1989), and superior to the EMI performance. It is like hearing the symphony for the first time.
> 
> No. 6 was recorded in Munich in Nov. 1991, and is about the same as the EMI performance. 7 and 8 were both recorded in Suntory Hall.
> 
> But $170???? I ordered mine directly from Japan (either CDJapan or HMV Japan -- I do not recall which one), and including shipping it was less than $100, but that was a year or so ago.


Thanks for the info. Yeah, $170 is the price I saw on Amazon. I guess it'll be a good test of my love for Bruckner


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## merlinus

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/SICC-10180


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## merlinus

Just listened to Thielemann/SKD. Excellent sound, well played, but lacking that certain something that Celibidache/MPO/Sony and Jochum/RCO/Japan express so well. His interpretation did not plumb the depths nor soar to the heights of those two.


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## DarkAngel

Didn't see any mention of the Eichhorn series with "hometown" orchestra, the 7th shown is available individually from Amazon USA sellers under $10, lots of hype about this but actually pretty much lives up to the reputation capturing that elusive religious reverence to a great degree, very good spacious sound..........

I like this so much I am tempted to make a purchase from HMV Japan of the entire Eichhorn set, insanely expensive from Amazon USA sellers

Spotify has entire Eichhorn boxset available for streaming........


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## Merl

DarkAngel said:


> Didn't see any mention of the Eichhorn series with "hometown" orchestra, the 7th shown is available individually from Amazon USA sellers under $10, lots of hype about this but actually pretty much lives up to the reputation capturing that elusive religious reverence to a great degree, very good spacious sound..........
> 
> I like this so much I am tempted to make a purchase from HMV Japan of the entire Eichhorn set, insanely expensive from Amazon USA sellers
> 
> Spotify has entire Eichhorn boxset available for streaming........


I really like that Eichhorn set. Just saying........


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## merlinus

Eichhorn's B5 is easily at least equal to the very best of the recordings I have heard of that symphony (Jochum/CGO, Karajan/BPO). Will look for the set from Japan. Thanks for the heads-up!


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## DarkAngel

merlinus said:


> Eichhorn's B5 is easily at least equal to the very best of the recordings I have heard of that symphony (Jochum/CGO, Karajan/BPO).* Will look for the set from Japan*. Thanks for the heads-up!












Upon closer look not a complete set, includes 2,5,6,7,8,9 symphonies about $70 USA


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## merlinus

Just listened to B7 with van Zweden/NRPO. It was a good performance and recording, but in no way matches Celibidache/MPO/Sony, or Jochum/RCO/Tokyo.


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## DarkAngel

merlinus said:


> Just listened to B7 with van Zweden/NRPO. It was a good performance and recording, but in no way matches *Celibidache/MPO/Sony*, or Jochum/RCO/Tokyo.


I noticed that the import Celi Sony selected symphonies boxset are SACD format, but are they also different performances than older main boxset from EMI? (the Japan order maybe growing) 










BTW my Zweden boxset from Presto expected any day now.......


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## merlinus

All are different than the EMI box. 7 and 8 are performances at Suntory Hall in Japan, 4 at the Musikverein in Vienna, and 6 in Munich in Nov. 1991.

The SQ is wonderful, and 4, 7, and 8 are much better performances. 6 is about the same as the one from EMI.


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## merlinus

DarkAngel said:


> Upon closer look not a complete set, includes 2,5,6,7,8,9 symphonies about $70 USA


Just ordered the set from HMV Japan. B5 here is a different recording from the one I have. That one is with the BRSO, and it is incredible, as I wrote in an earlier post. But I imagine this one might be even better!

Thanks again for the heads-up.


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## merlinus

Just listened to B7 with Thielemann/SKD. Wow, what a performance, and recording! It is definitely equal to the best I have heard.

I hope Profil will issue CD (or even better, SACD) versions of his other Bruckner symphonies with SKD that at the moment are only available on blu-ray or dvd (4, 5, 6, and 9). The only other one available is an SACD of B8.


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## DarkAngel

merlinus said:


> Just listened to B7 with Thielemann/SKD. Wow, what a performance, and recording! It is definitely equal to the best I have heard.
> 
> I hope Profil will issue CD (or even better, SACD) versions of his other Bruckner symphonies with SKD that at the moment are only available on blu-ray or dvd (4, 5, 6, and 9). The only other one available is an SACD of B8.


Sounds like you prefer the Thielemann 7th over the Zweden 7th.....if one must make choices 

I just received my Thielemann 7th and gave a listen today, a glorious powerful rendition with exceptional sound quality, the brass are beautifully rendered creating towering crescendo peaks glistening like stars, a moving experience agree one of the top tier

My Zweden boxset has arrived so more fun ahead......


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## merlinus

DarkAngel said:


> Sounds like you prefer the Thielemann 7th over the Zweden 7th.....if one must make choices
> 
> I just received my Thielemann 7th and gave a listen today, a glorious powerful rendition with exceptional sound quality, the brass are beautifully rendered creating towering crescendo peaks glistening like stars, a moving experience agree one of the top tier
> 
> My Zweden boxset has arrived so more fun ahead......


Thielemann is somewhat above Zweden in the 7th, for me, and on a par with Celibidache/MPO/Sony. His reading is more spacious, and the orchestra is better than the Netherlanders. But both are excellent.

Your description of the recording is wonderful! And I look forward to your views on the Zweden box. I hope you enjoy it!


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## Granate

*After the Round-Up - No.7*

*No.7 Results:*
Trash
*72nd:* Kegel LRSO
*71st:* Paternostro WPR

Decent
70th: Horenstein BPO
69th: Schuricht ORTF
68th: Jochum RCO 
67rd: Harnoncourt WPO
*66th:* Jansons RCO
65th: Klemperer PO
64th: Solti CSO
*63rd:* Inbal RSOF
62nd: Szell WPO
61st: Solti WPO
*60th:* Wand SOdNDR
59th: Tennstedt LPO
58th: Blomstedt LGO
57th: Jochum BPO
56th: Barbirolli HO
*55th:* Kreizberg WSO
54th: Matačić CzPO
*53rd:* Rozhdestvensky USSR
52nd: Tintner RSNO

Good
51st: Wand BPO
*50th:* Rögner RSOB
49th: Celibidache BPO
*48th:* Janowski OSR
47th: Gielen SWR SO BBuF
*46th:* Böhm SOdBR
45th: Giulini WPO
*44th:* Runnicles BBC SSO
*43rd:* Asahina OPO Oosterport
42nd: Young HPO
*41st:* Abbado WPO
40th: Bertini KRSO
39th: Dohnányi ClO
*38th:* Lim KSO
37th: Schuricht RSOS
36th: Skrowaczewski RSOS
35th: Giulini BPO 
34th: Karajan WPO
33rd: Maazel SOdBR
*32nd:* Skrowaczewski YNSO
31st: Celibidache DG
30th: Matačić NHKSO
*29th:* Beinum RCO
*28th:* Maazel BPO (loses positions)
27th: Knappertsbusch WPO
26th: Asahina OPO JJ
25th: Blomstedt SKD
*24th:* Rattle CBSO
*23rd:* Masur LGO
22nd: Furtwängler BPO
*21st:* Asahina OPO St. Florian
20th: Chailly RSOB (1p)
*19th:* Eichhorn BOL *(2p)*
*18th:* Abendroth RSOB
17th: Celibidache WC
16th: Thielemann MPO
15th: Celibidache Sony (3p)
*14th:* Barenboim BPO
13th: Karajan BPO WC
*12th:* Jochum MPO
11th: Wand KRSO (4p)
*10th:* Barenboim SKB
9th: Jochum SKD
8th: Barenboim CSO (5p)
*7th:* Jochum ORTF *(6p)*
6th: Böhm WPO

Very good
5th: Haitink RCO (7p)
*4th:* Davis SOdBR
3rd: Venzago BsSO (8p)
2nd: Sinopoli SKD (9p)

Excellent
1st: Karajan BPO DG (10p)

Highlights from the Round-up:










Bruckner
_*Symphony No.7 in E major*_ Live recording
1885 Version, Ed. Nowak
Berliner Philharmoniker
*Daniel Barenboim
Warner Classics (1992/2006 Reissue Edition)*

_Well thought from start to finish, balancing the instruments and slowing the adagio, not to mention the explosive finales that Baremboim builds at each movement. Good effort._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.7 in E major*_ Live recording
1885 Version, Ed. Nowak
Staatskapelle Berlin
*Daniel Barenboim
Peral / Deutsche Grammophon (2010/2016 Issue Edition)*

_The performance is not actually close to a reference level, but proves how good Barenboim seems to be with this particular symphony. Great record on par with the previous from Chicago and Berlin. The strings send deep sonorities, the brass is precise and clean, and the tempi chosen is the most suitable._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.7 in E major*_ Live recording
1885 Modified Version, Ed. Gutmann
Orchestre National de l'ORTF 
*Eugen Jochum
Disques Montaigne (1980)*

_It looked like it was going to be in the league of reference recordings, thanks to that solid Adagio, and it could actually be there, but for the second half probably this deserves to get into the Top 10._
*C+*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.7 in E major*_ Live recording
1885 Version, Ed. Nowak
Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks
*Colin Davis
Orfeo (1987)*

_I'm not very sure with the volume it sometimes has (I need to turn it up), but the performance is stunning in its own delicate way. It's in the Scherzo where it manages to stick up from the rest._
*B-*


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## DarkAngel

I just realized that Granate's top pick Karajan 7th is the DG BPO not the final 1989 WP version (which I assumed) will have to revisit these and see if there is something I need to re-consider, both are top tier but the WP is recognized by many as a truely great touchstone valedictorian rendition.....


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## Granate

DarkAngel said:


> I just realized that Granate's top pick Karajan 7th is the DG BPO not the final 1989 WP version (which I assumed) will have to revisit these and see if there is something I need to re-consider, both are top tier but *the WP is recognized by many as a truely great touchstone valedictorian rendition.....*


I even listened to it again when I was doing the round-up, and I found nothing new to change my review. For me it stays in the middle of the table, not saying that it is overhyped but it doesn't grasp my attention.


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## merlinus

I do not care for ANY HvK Bruckner recordings. The sound is rather poor on most of them, and his interpretation is middle tier at best.


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## Granate

I was going to post a funny reaction to this repetitive comment, but for one that cares about Bruckner I better let this go in peace.


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## SONNET CLV

I didn't catch my favorite Bruckner 7th on the list:










The Max Rudolf was the first recording of this work (and my first hearing of Bruckner) and the sound has never left my memory. My old LP is still a treasure, and I purchased a CD reissue from Haydn House a couple of years back. Sure, there are many great Bruckner 7ths on disc, and many of them (if not most) feature better production and sound quality. But the Cincinnati Symphony recording is the one that captured my heart and made me a Brucknerian, and though I now collect versions of the 7th Symphony (and the 4th), the Max Rudolf stands supreme in my collection. I think Bruckner himself would have liked this recording.


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## Granate

SONNET CLV said:


> I didn't catch my favorite Bruckner 7th on the list:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Max Rudolf was the first recording of this work (and my first hearing of Bruckner) and the sound has never left my memory. My old LP is still a treasure, and I purchased a CD reissue from Haydn House a couple of years back. Sure, there are many great Bruckner 7ths on disc, and many of them (if not most) feature better production and sound quality. But the Cincinnati Symphony recording is the one that captured my heart and made me a Brucknerian, and though I now collect versions of the 7th Symphony (and the 4th), the Max Rudolf stands supreme in my collection. I think Bruckner himself would have liked this recording.


Good. I've done research and it looks like this recording was never reissued even on CD. The HDTT website has remastered and reissued the recording in High Quality, and judging by the samples it looks like a singular recording. Also, Abruckner offers the recording for free 320. I'll give it a listen tomorrow, thanks!
By tomorrow I mean in 10 or 11 hours.


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## Pugg

Granate said:


> I was going to post a funny reaction to this repetitive comment, but for one that cares about Bruckner I better let this go in peace.


Now this made me curious. :lol:


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## Granate

*Max Rudolf - Bruckner 7*









Bruckner
_*Symphony No.7 in E major*_
1885 Modified Version, Ed. Gutmann
Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra
*Max Rudolf
Decca (1966)*

_I cannot call this recording as "standard". It is individual in its own way, particularly in the brass that opens the Scherzo. Everything is like recorded one key lower than usual. Except a little distortion, is a clean recording. It doesn't challenge my favourites but it is a dignifying version. It reminds me of the Heinz Bongartz LGO B6._
*C+*


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## Vaneyes

merlinus said:


> I do not care for ANY HvK Bruckner recordings. The sound is rather poor on most of them, and his interpretation is middle tier at best.


BPO/HvK's 1966 Bruckner 9 is top tier. VPO/HvK's 1989 Bruckner 7 is top tier. :tiphat::tiphat:


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## DarkAngel

Vaneyes said:


> BPO/HvK's 1966 Bruckner 9 is top tier. *VPO/HvK's 1989 Bruckner 7 is top tie*r. :tiphat::tiphat:





> I just realized that Granate's top pick Karajan 7th is the DG BPO not the final 1989 WP version (which I assumed) will have to revisit these and see if there is something I need to re-consider, both are top tier but the WP is recognized by many as a truely great touchstone valedictorian rendition.....


Granate has me listening to these again (and again), the WP brass has that warm golden tone and the final soaring massive crescendo comes a bit closer in scaling the heights to touch the hand of god in glorious splendor.......

I have been buying the individual DG BPO Karajan 4-9 CD sets used with "wing" graphics because the budget boxset seems so cheap and some CD breaks to save space are ill advised............


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## Granate

DarkAngel said:


> I have been buying the individual DG BPO Karajan 4-9 CD sets used with "wing" graphics because the budget boxset seems so cheap and some CD breaks to save space are ill advised............


1. I kind of didn't understand the meaning of the last part of the sentence (except the wing-graphic covers).
2. I'd like to purchase the Karajan BPO set whenever they release a better packaging. The current one may be cheap, but the symphony edition is ugly.


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## DarkAngel

> I have been buying the individual DG BPO Karajan 4-9 CD sets used with "wing" graphics because the *budget boxset seems so cheap and some CD breaks to save space are ill advised*............





Granate said:


> 1. *I kind of didn't understand the meaning of the last part of the sentence *(except the wing-graphic covers).
> 2. I'd like to puchase the Karajan BPO set whenever they release a better packaging. The current one may be cheap, but the symphony edition is ugly.


For instance in the Karajan budget boxset they force together symphonies 2 & 8 on two CDs to save space and use fewest CDs for boxset, with the older "wing" CDs sym 8 gets its own 2CD package..........this is common practice for many budget boxsets, some Mahler sets are especially scrambled as a result to use fewest CDs possible


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## WildThing

Granate, I'm wondering if you've heard Böhm's live performance of Symphony No. 7 with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and if so how you think it stacks up to his VPO recording that you rate so highly.


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