# Operetta - Should I?



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Been thinking. I've seen over 150 different operas, and mostly now I'm going to ones I've seen (in some form) before.

I have an operetta coming up this month - Die Perlen der Cleopatra by Oscar Straus (yes even the name is lighter than his namesake).

Should I explore the operetta repertoire? I don't mind a little (ENO) G&S, and some Lehar. Is there more? Is it worthless, and might I just move to Andrew Lloyd-Webber while I'm at it?

Your favourite operettas? Has there been a poll? Should there be?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

What about some Offenbach? Most people will know the conclusion to _Orphée aux enfers_ with the _Galop infernal_.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

As Victor Borge asked: "You want some Bach? JS or Offen?"


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

Maybe it would not be a bad idea to first read the definition for operetta at Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operetta

I love operettas, especially the filmed versions - but I do have an advantage of good command of the German language, so everything from operettas filmed in Austria or Germany is accessible also without subtitles. Try for a start Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger's "Oh... Rosalinda!!" - Johann Strauss II "Die Fledermaus" (The Bat) from 1955:

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/die-fledermaus-55oh-rosalinda-operettenfilm-jstrau-redgrave-tchrina-ferrer-1955__3q3waxehdka

And by the same director, Offenbach's "The Tales of Hoffmann" from 1951: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/the-tales-of-hoffmannhoffmanns-erzhlungen-operettenfilm-offenbach-rounseville-shearer-tchrina-1951__juzeejkby7s

If you can survive without subtitles, continue with Emmerich Kalman's "The Gipsy Princess", "Countess Maritza", more from Strauss "The Gypsy Baron", "A Night in Venice", Franz Lehar's "The Tsarevich", "The Merry Widow" and Paul Abraham's "Victoria and her Hussar"... http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/videolist


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I've seen Tales of Hoffmann, Merry Widow, Die Fledermaus and a few Gilbert and Sullivan.

But to get beyond that it looks like I'll need to spend more time in central Europe.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Please let us know how your toe in the water works out. Unless one is a frequent visitor to Germany and Austria its hardly even an option. Sadly even AMDram has abandoned them, except G&S and I am always on the lookout for them

I love lighter music and in addition to several G&S have seen and hugely enjoyed the following
Orpheus In the Underworld. 2 Productions. ENO and Opera Holland Park
Hoffman - a favourite.
Die Fledermaus - Drove 2.5 hrs. each way to an Amateur production - it's the only way.
Die lustige Witwe. This was put on in a West End Theatre when Covent Garden was being refurbished and had a dream cast of Tomas Allen and Felicity Lott. Wonderful. Once you've fallen in love with that Waltz, it never leaves you. 
And despite wanting to see more after 35 years of keenly attending Opera AND Musicals, that's it. Never had the chance of a Belle Helene, Land of Smiles or anything by Herve. 
I would add that even more than Opera they benefit from being performed in a smaller theatre. Eno have an upcoming production of Iolanthe, will attend but I fear it will be lost in the Coliseum. Can't stand Lloyd Webber but more modern works that carry on this tradition and I'm convinced will survive, would include Showboat (Kerns is one of the great melodists), Candide (woefully underappreciated) and A Little Night Music. 
A Christmas present to myself is a "Betty Blackhead" recital of Operetta Arias. Will now move it to the top of the 'next' pile. Its regarded as being amongst the finest of her considerable achievements.
https://www.simplyhe.com/products/e...4znZdiq7lKA2YCXGQu3feggB80P8e4aAvof EALw_wcB

I remember Franck Zappa saying if he then wanted to show a different behaviour to everyone else he would suggest wearing a suit and tie. Today if you want to be different, listen to Operetta! I hope this is a low point in its appreciation and the whole spirit of Operetta can be revived. So I say give it a try, you never know you might like it.

PS Sena thank you for the links, I look forward to watching a P&P film I've not seen before and hearing it though another Christmas present a TV sound bar!

But this one first.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> I've seen Tales of Hoffmann, Merry Widow, Die Fledermaus and a few Gilbert and Sullivan.
> 
> But to get beyond that it looks like I'll need to spend more time in central Europe.


Posted at the same time.

Compare our lists! One day I'm putting all my tickets and programs on a spreadsheet. I wonder how often we've sat in the same theatre?


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

Belowpar, welcome. I luved the P&P "The Red Shoes" too - the whole lovely atmosphere and colours of those early Technicolor movies.

It would be worth adjusting your vacation timetable in order to attend Countess Maritza at the Mörbisch Lake Festival... (some 30 miles from Vienna):

http://www.seefestspiele-moerbisch.at/en/

or to catch some operetta performance (they DO have them too, beside operas) at the Bregenz Festival at Lake Constance...

https://bregenzerfestspiele.com/en


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

This is Johann Strauss II operetta "1001 Night" being performed in Bregenz back in 1959 - excerpts from the movie "Bei der blonden Kathrein" (By the blonde Katharine)


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I am not sure where Opéra bouffe counts on the scale of opera genres - Wikipedia lists all Offenbach and calls them operettas elsewhere - but I have a chance to see a couple this year.

Local company Pocket Opera is doing _La belle Hélène_ in an English translation. I am seeing Komische Oper Berlin's _Barbe-bleue_ in March. Several years ago I had the chance to see _La Périchole_ from New York City Opera, but did not attend.

Emmerich Kálmán is the 14th most performed composer over 2011/12 through 2015/16 per Operabase. He is beat by Franz Lehár (#13; dropped to #25 without _Die lustige Witwe_, Offenbach (at #11; without _Les contes d'Hoffmann_ he would still be at #17), and Johan Strauss (coming in at 8th; not counting _Die Fledermaus_ he would still be 25th). Further down the list is Ralph Benatzky, another composer unfamiliar to me but known for operetta.

So even without those big opera/operettas from those composers, there is a lot to explore. But you're probably right, without traveling to Central Europe it will be difficult to see many.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Also, have you listened to the Jonas Kaufmann album "You Mean the World to Me?" He sings songs from many operettas by composers such as Franz Lehár, Emmerich Kálmán, and Ralph Benatzky.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Also, just as an answer, I'd say yes, absolutely. Not because I love operetta - it seems like you know more than I do! - but because it's out there. And especially if you've enjoyed some Gilbert & Sullivan and so on.

I'd also posit that there's nothing wrong with Andrew Lloyd Webber. Or Claude-Michel Schönberg, or Richard Rodgers, Stephen Sondheim, Jeanine Tesori, Michael John LaChiusa, and so on. I'm not saying that they're operas, that everyone that likes opera will like musical theater, or that opera companies should be putting on their works. But I'm constantly surprised that there isn't more crossover between fans of opera and fans of musicals (from both directions, of course).


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

Well musical is for me in the Anglo-Saxon world what is operetta in the continental Europe- even though England and the USA did produce operettas and continental European countries musicals.

You can also start learning German - or look for the subtitled filmed operettas.

Benatzky is mostly known for hiw "The White Horse Inn" - it had been filmed in German 3 or 4 times, even in Italian a few times and comes at the Mörbisch festivalk every now and then too.

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/im-weien-rolthe-white-horse-inn-operettenfilm-benatzky-heesters-matz-1952__qyico4iyjgr

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/im-weien-rolthe-white-horse-inn-operettenfilm-benatzky-alexander-haas-1960__kvsadfscrw6

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/im-weien-rolal-cavallino-bianco-operette-benatzky-calderoni-vincenzi-gallino-torino-1954__p6srbr2vf8q

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/im-weien-rolal-cavallino-bianco-operette-benatzky-renis-luce-gallino-milano-1974__l70n4knxnse

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/im-weien-rolthe-white-horse-inn-operette-benatzky-seefestspiele-morbisch-2008__td5quj8lob2


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

mountmccabe said:


> Emmerich Kálmán is the 14th most performed composer over 2011/12 through 2015/16 per Operabase. He is beat by Franz Lehár (#13; dropped to #25 without _Die lustige Witwe_, Offenbach (at #11; without _Les contes d'Hoffmann_ he would still be at #17), and Johan Strauss (coming in at 8th; not counting _Die Fledermaus_ he would still be 25th). Further down the list is Ralph Benatzky, another composer unfamiliar to me but known for operetta.


To that list I would add also Franz von Suppe - certainly wort exploring, and quite a prolific composer


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

Here's one more proposal to watch: Lehar's The Land of Smiles, most recent production from Zurich:

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/das-land-des-lchelnsthe-land-of-smiles-operette-lehar-beczala-kleiter-luisi-zurich-2017__kxtbatjern2


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

SenaJurinac said:


> Here's one more proposal to watch: Lehar's The Land of Smiles, most recent production from Zurich:
> 
> http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/das-land-des-lchelnsthe-land-of-smiles-operette-lehar-beczala-kleiter-luisi-zurich-2017__kxtbatjern2


I observe that one is regularly performed in Europe. but unknown in the UK.


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

Don Fatale said:


> I observe that one is regularly performed in Europe. but unknown in the UK.


Quite a lot is actually unknown in the UK. I am surprised operettas are not more performed e.g. at the BBC's Proms, e.g. as the concert performances or concerts with operattic arias


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

So by what you write, DOn Fatale, most Brits (and even more Americans, probably) never heard this???


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I may be shouted down, but Ive always considered Hansel und Gretel to be an operetta -- and also an absolute masterpiece.


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

I was always convinced The Tales of Hoffmann are an operetta too . was rather surprsed to find that work regarded as an opera


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

SenaJurinac said:


> I was always convinced The Tales of Hoffmann are an operetta too . was rather surprsed to find that work regarded as an opera


I guess because the scope of the work seems rather greater than a typical operetta.

Reading a little about it, I discovered it was Offenbach's last work and he died before the premiere. On Wikipedia it's called an _Opera Fantastique_.
.


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

*Hidden treasure discovery*

I discovered a hidden treasure - 3 cassette tapes with "Best of" operetta, performed by such stars like Anneliese Rothenberger, Helen Donath, Siegfried Jerusalem. Fritz Wunderlich, Rudolf Schock, Nicolai Gedda, René Kollo, Hermann Prey, Ingeborg Hallsten, Dagmar Koller, Peter Alexander... Produced by the former GDR's (East Germany's) company "AMIGA - Veb Deutsche Schallplatten DDR" back in 1982, with then best available sound technology - Dolby B noise reduction. Now busy transfering it to a CD :clap:


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

SenaJurinac said:


> I was always convinced The Tales of Hoffmann are an operetta too . was rather surprsed to find that work regarded as an opera


It's an opéra-comique, rather than an operetta. Briefly, an op-com is an opera with spoken dialogue; _Carmen_ is the most famous one. It's not an operetta, which, in the French context, would be Lecocq, Hervé, and Offenbach's own earlier works - but its mixture of singing and speech brings it close to the musical. Confusing, isn't it?


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

NickFuller said:


> It's an opéra-comique, rather than an operetta. Briefly, an op-com is an opera with spoken dialogue; _Carmen_ is the most famous one. It's not an operetta, which, in the French context, would be Lecocq, Hervé, and Offenbach's own earlier works - but its mixture of singing and speech brings it close to the musical. Confusing, isn't it?


Then there's the the modern trend of played and sung-thoughs like Le Mis! I'm not on the slippery slope toward musicals am I?


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Music is to be enjoyed so whatever you enjoy. Must confess that outside Joseph I have never found Lloyd-Webber's musicals in the least bit enticing. Went to see Phantom of Opera and nearly died of boredom with the stupid plot and the uninspired music.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Don Fatale said:


> Then there's the the modern trend of played and sung-thoughs like Le Mis! I'm not on the slippery slope toward musicals am I?


In that case, it's a Wagnerian durchkompiert Gesamtkunstwerk.

Actually, Disney's _Lion King_ is a Wagnerian work that unites singing, dance, music, and poetry - and, like _Parsifal_, deals with guilt, atonement, and the circle of life.


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

*"Victoria and her Hussar" - another operetta filming*

One more operetta filming of Paul Abraham's "Victoria and her Hussar", from 1954, this time with a rather liberal treatment of the original story. Director: Rudolf Schündler. Stars: Eva Bartok, Friedrich Schoenfelder, Rudolf Forster, Frank Felder, Grethe Weiser, Georg Thomalla, Hubert von Meyerinck.

http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/viktoria-und-ihr-husarvictoria-and-her-hussar-operettenfilm-abraham-schoenfelder-schundler-1954__8r4blioiwpg


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

*Other French operetta composers*

I was totally unaware of other French operetta composers than Jacques Offenbach (who, BTW, was born in Germany - Cologne). Now for the first time I had a chance to watch/listen Les Mousquetaires au couvent (The Musketeers at the Convent) - an operetta in three acts by Louis Varney, and it was quite a fun (I was able to understand the story as on ARTE TV channel one can choose between French subtitles - language I don't understand - and German, which I do understand well). This performance is from Paris Opéra Comique, directed by Jérôme Deschamps.

Video links:

Part 1 http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/les-mousquetaires-au-couvent-12-operette-varney-canturri-guze-paris-2018__swvj24e9kli

Part 2 http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/les-mousquetaires-au-couvent-22-operette-varney-canturri-guze-paris-2018__dcxiqqefkga









Information in French and German:

Déguisés en moines, deux mousquetaires enlèvent des soeurs d'un couvent... Une opérette savoureuse de Louis Varney, remise au goût du jour par la mise en scène ébouriffante de Jérôme Deschamps.

En Touraine, sous le règne de Louis XIII. L'armée est mobilisée, Richelieu craignant une nouvelle conspiration. L'abbé Bridaine se met en quête de son ancien protégé, le mousquetaire Gontran de Solanges, qui se meurt d'amour pour une belle pensionnaire du couvent des Ursulines. Or, Marie et sa sœur Louise doivent prendre le voile dans les deux jours, sur ordre de leur oncle, le comte de Pontcourlay. Alors que deux moines de passage sont réquisitionnés pour procéder à la cérémonie, le capitaine Narcisse de Brissac imagine un plan pour venir en aide à Gontran : immobiliser les religieux et subtiliser leurs soutanes pour pénétrer dans le couvent.

Charge anticléricale
Des pensionnaires pas très saintes, des bonnes sœurs crédules, un abbé loufoque, un gouverneur décalé, de fringants mousquetaires… : tels sont les ingrédients du triomphe de l'opérette de Louis Varney, créée en 1880 aux Bouffes Parisiens pour un public passionné d'histoire et friand de prouesses militaires. Sous des abords irrévérencieux et libertins, la pièce cache un propos plus grave : une charge contre la religion, qui opprime les deux jeunes héroïnes. Pour la dernière œuvre de son mandat de directeur de l'Opéra-Comique, Jérôme Deschamps a concocté une mise en scène décoiffante, truffée d'éléments contemporains : anachronismes visuels, avec des accessoires modernes, mais aussi verbaux, à travers des expressions actuelles. Sur une musique raffinée et entraînante, entrecoupée d'intermèdes comiques, les solistes expriment tout leur talent, à commencer par la reine du lyrique Anne-Catherine Gillet, et la jeune étoile Anne-Marine Suire.

Réalisation :
François-René Martin
Acteur :
Marc Canturri
Sébastien Guèze
Franck Leguérinel
Anne-Catherine Gillet
Anne-Marine Suire
Antoinette Dennefeld
Nicole Monestier
Doris Lamprecht
Jérôme Deschamps
Direction musicale :
Laurent Campellone
Direction de chœur :
Geoffroy Jourdain
Costumes :
Vanessa Sannino
Choeur :
Les Cris de Paris
Chorégraphie :
Glyslein Lefever
Composition :
Louis Varney
Scénographie :
Laurent Peduzzi
Livret :
Jules Prével, Paul Ferrier
Lumière :
Marie-Christine Soma
Mise en scène :
Jérôme Deschamps
Orchestre :
Orchestre Symphonique de l'Opéra de Toulon
Pays :
France
Année :
2015

Zwischen Oper und Boulevardkomödie: Vorwitzige Klosterschülerinnen, gutgläubige Nonnen, ein durchgeknallter Abt und ein schräger Gouverneur sorgen in dieser mitreißenden Operette aus der Belle Epoque für Stimmung. Jérôme Deschamps' Neuinszenierung des selten gespielten Werks wurde an der Pariser Opéra Comique mit großem Beifall aufgenommen.

Die Opéra Comique in Paris zeigt jedes Jahr ein verkanntes - oder zumindest selten gespieltes - Juwel des französischen Repertoires. Zum Abschluss der Spielzeit 2014/15 war das Louis Varneys großartige Operette „Les Mousquetaires au Couvent" (1880), einer der größten Erfolge der Belle Epoque. Die Liebesgeschichte spielt im 17. Jahrhundert, zur Zeit der Herrschaft Ludwigs XIII., in der Provinz Touraine. Während Kardinal Richelieu eine neue Verschwörung fürchtet, schleichen sich zwei durchtriebene Musketiere als Pilger verkleidet in das Kloster ein, wo ihre Herzensdamen, die Ordensschwestern, festgehalten werden … Doch hinter der fröhlich-frechen Oberfläche des Textes verbirgt sich auch eine ernste Aussage: Louis Varney stellt die Religion als Zwang wider die menschliche Natur dar. Ein für die damalige Zeit gewagtes Stück, dessen Uraufführung im Pariser Théâtre des Bouffes-Parisiens ein rauschender Erfolg war. Für die musikalische Untermalung sorgen das Orchestre Symphonique de l'Opéra de Toulon unter der Leitung von Laurent Campellone und der Chor Les Cris de Paris, dirigiert von Geoffroy Jourdain. Die schwungvolle Musik von Louis Varney wird von amüsanten Zwischenspielen unterbrochen. Unter den Solisten ist Anne-Catherine Gillet als Simone mit ihrem zauberhaften Timbre und meisterhafter Technik die unbestrittene Königin des Abends. Anne-Marine Suire gibt als Marie de Pontcourlay ein glänzendes Debüt an der Pariser Opéra Comique. Jérôme Deschamps' Inszenierung - seine letzte als Intendant der Opéra Comique (2007-2015) - bleibt ebenso wie Bühnenbild und Kostüme der Entstehungszeit des Werkes treu; zeitgenössisches Vokabular und moderne Requisiten bilden dazu einen subtilen, aber deshalb nicht minder komischen sprachlichen und optischen Kontrast.


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## SenaJurinac (Nov 29, 2017)

*Countess Maritza from Mörbisch Lake Festival 2018 - a true spectacle!!!*

Seefestspiele Mörbisch, or Mörbisch Lake Festival, have always been THE place to enjoy operetta in a spectacular settings - and this year Gräfin Mariza (Countess Maritza) did not dissapoint...

https://www.seefestspiele-moerbisch.at/en/program-2015/2018-graefin-mariza/about-the-piece/

Video link act 1: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-13-operette-klmn-payer-mikneviciute-filler-mancusi-seefestspiele-morbisch-2018__btolcwyavng

Video link act 2: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-23-operette-klmn-payer-mikneviciute-filler-mancusi-seefestspiele-morbisch-2018__ov3mzooispo

Video link act 3: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-33-operette-klmn-payer-mikneviciute-filler-mancusi-seefestspiele-morbisch-2018__4dqvha8byic









For comparison, one older performance from 1987...

Video link act 1: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-13-operette-klmn-dallapozza-janowitz-nemeth-theimer-seefestspiele-morbisch-1987__7cq3x5tdidm

Video link act 2: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-23-operette-klmn-dallapozza-janowitz-nemeth-theimer-seefestspiele-morbisch-1987__pwwdytshi0s

Video link act 3: http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/grfin-mariza-33-operette-klmn-dallapozza-janowitz-nemeth-theimer-seefestspiele-morbisch-1987__uvplolnmcfw


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

SenaJurinac said:


> Here's one more proposal to watch: Lehar's The Land of Smiles, most recent production from Zurich:
> 
> http://operettenkoenig.web.tv/video/das-land-des-lchelnsthe-land-of-smiles-operette-lehar-beczala-kleiter-luisi-zurich-2017__kxtbatjern2


That one is not available in the US of A. I do have two DVDs of Land of Smiles and two CDs, one sung in English. It is my favorite operetta, and perhaps the only operetta that I really like a lot.


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## Michael Lemieux (Dec 30, 2021)

Currently listening to the new Naxos recording of Ball At the Savoy by Paul Abraham.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Can I put a word in for Die Czardasfürstin by Emmerich Kalman. There was a wonderful production a few years ago by the Wiener Volkstheater, which I was lucky enough to catch on one of the German television channels.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Annied said:


> Die Czardasfürstin by Emmerich Kalman. There was a wonderful production a few years ago by the Wiener Volkstheater,


that must be this one -






i was lucky to have it downloaded to my comp, right off youtube, before they banned the channel.


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## Annied (Apr 27, 2017)

Yes, that was the one. I still have it on my HDD. Jakob Semotan stole the show for me.


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