# Round One: Tenor: Faust "Salut..." John Alexander and Georges Thill



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am going to try my hand at a tenor contest. Let me know if I do it okay.My motivation is John Alexander, who is a favorite of mine, and has not been in a contest. Some big names are to come. What a beautiful aria. I know one of you loves Thill... maybe Nina????


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

There is absolutely no contest. Thill sounds as he is reflecting on the _demeure_, and its occupant, while Alexander seems to be making a rather overt statement. He also seems to shout his high notes.

Thill is a paragon of the French style, whose _piano_ high C is the culmination of how to handle the voice in this aria. I'm afraid Alexander is out of his depth. A rather unfortunate juxtaposition, in my opinion.

It's a pity, because I generally like John Alexander and he makes a good impression in the theater.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> There is absolutely no contest. Thill sounds as he is reflecting on the _demeure_, and its occupant, while Alexander seems to be making a rather overt statement. He also seems to shout his high notes.
> 
> Thill is a paragon of the French style, whose _piano_ high C is the culmination of how to handle the voice in this aria. I'm afraid Alexander is out of his depth. A rather unfortunate juxtaposition, in my opinion.
> 
> It's a pity, because I generally like John Alexander and he makes a good impression in the theater.


Someone on Youtube recommended Alexander for this but I was led astray. I don't know male singers as well as female singers. He is not one or the truly great singers but his voice is so beautiful to my ear. Thill was a revelation to me. I have some great contestants for this I think ... and hope. Thanks for playing.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Someone on Youtube recommended Alexander for this but I was led astray. I don't know male singers as well as female singers. He is not one or the truly great singers but his voice is so beautiful to my ear. Thill was a revelation to me. I have some great contestants for this I think ... and hope. Thanks for playing.


Alexander's voice is beautiful in the theater (a Pollione to Sutherland's *Norma*) and that opera suits his rather beefy style; I rather think French opera is not his cup of tea. However, Alexander also sang Julien in *Louise* and Hoffmann in *Les Contes d'Hoffmann*, here (San Francisco), neither of which I saw. So, what do I know?


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

MAS said:


> There is absolutely no contest.


I agree. Alexander was a fine singer, but his delivery here is stiff. But to be honest, there aren't many tenors, past or present, who can match Thill in this repertoire.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Someone on Youtube recommended Alexander for this but I was led astray. I don't know male singers as well as female singers. He is not one or the truly great singers but his voice is so beautiful to my ear. Thill was a revelation to me. I have some great contestants for this I think ... and hope. Thanks for playing.


I hope you'll be including Bjoerling's 1939 studio recording.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Someone on Youtube recommended Alexander for this but I was led astray. I don't know male singers as well as female singers. He is not one or the truly great singers but his voice is so beautiful to my ear. Thill was a revelation to me. I have some great contestants for this I think ... and hope. Thanks for playing.


Di Stefano for that wonderful diminuendo on the high C.

Also, I voted for Thill; his interpretation is extraordinary.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Thill is wonderful, but I must say that Alexander is technically a superb singer, and his impeccable diminuendi had me wondering again what has happened to singing. The high C is a bit brutal - Thill is one of the minority of tenors who takes it gently as it requires - and his tempo is too fast to allow him to create the right mood, but I'd nonetheless be thrilled to hear anyone sing the aria this well today. I'll vote for Thill, but I feel a small tribute to Alexander is necessary.

A tenor I'd like to see included in this set of matches is Alfred Piccaver, whose recording of this aria could provoke some interesting discussion of technique and style.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Thill is wonderful, but I must say that Alexander is technically a superb singer, and his impeccable diminuendi had me wondering again what has happened to singing. The high C is a bit brutal - Thill is one of the minority of tenors who takes it gently as it requires - and his tempo is too fast to allow him to create the right mood, but I'd nonetheless be thrilled to hear anyone sing the aria this well today. I'll vote for Thill, but I feel a small tribute to Alexander is necessary.
> 
> A tenor I'd like to see included in this set of matches is Alfred Piccaver, whose recording of this aria could provoke some interesting discussion of technique and style.


I was thinking of doing Corelli, but some aren't fond of his French. I think I will use Alfred instead for variety. Corelli has done really well in the Italian repertoire in Bonetan's contests.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Now we're talking my game -- tenors! Maybe as a result of Lanza's influence into my life.

Not even close. This one's a wrap-up.
Thill runs away with it -- the class, the ease, the purity -- and that incredibly gorgeous last high note was transcending.

Incidentally Seattle, I think you might have me mixed up with another Thill lover because, although I simply adore Thill's voice, my favorite tenor and among my top 5 (next to Lanza, that is), is Neil Shicoff (who finds me sitting alone in my corner over there).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Alexander isn't bad by any means and his technique is excellent, but he's a bit stiff in his phrasing and his legato suffers. 

Thill on the other hand has it all and makes it all sound so easy. No contest, I'm afraid.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Try this one for sublimity.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=salut+demeure+chaste+et+pure+di+stefano


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I was thinking of doing Corelli, but some aren't fond of his French. I think I will use Alfred instead for variety. Corelli has done really well in the Italian repertoire in Bonetan's contests.


Corelli's high C is glorious, but as you said, his French is less Français and more Francese. In fact, his whole interpretation is more Italian than French, which is a bit of an issue even if his voice is fantastic.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Thill is wonderfully lyrical and ardent, his lines are gracefully flowing. Alexander, on the other hand, is "beefier" and more dramatic in his delivery, so it's up to personal preferences and tastes. Thill's high C is sweet but slightly grained. Alexander is audibly prepares to take the leap but I don't find his C annoying in the least. I guess I'll be in the minority, but Alexander wins this just by a tiny bit.

P.S. And please, don't include Corelli in French repertoire!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Azol said:


> P.S. And please, don't include Corelli in French repertoire!


I second, third and fourth this motion (not meaning to hog all the motions, but I believe fifthing and sixthing are still available and should be tempting to somebody).


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I second, third and fourth this motion (not meaning to hog all the motions, but I believe fifthing and sixthing are still available and should be tempting to somebody).


Fifthing or Sixthing?? Here I am!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> Fifthing or Sixthing?? Here I am!


Splendid! Now let's hope for seventhing.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Azol said:


> *Thill is wonderfully lyrical and ardent, his lines are gracefully flowing. Alexander, on the other hand, is "beefier" and more dramatic in his delivery, so it's up to personal preferences and tastes. *Thill's high C is sweet but slightly grained. Alexander is audibly prepares to take the leap but I don't find his C annoying in the least. I guess I'll be in the minority, but Alexander wins this just by a tiny bit.
> 
> P.S. And please, don't include Corelli in French repertoire!


I went with John Alexander for this reason. I prefer tenors with more chiaroscuro and "beefiness" to the voice. The "French style" of singing comes off a bit more lilting and cooing, more head voice participation than I prefer in male voices in general (on very rare occasion you get someone like Beniamino Gigli who can master both, but I don't think people realize how much of a freak he was. even during the golden age, 99% of tenors could not do that).

As you said though, this is a matter of tastes. In fact, if anything, I think Thill is technically the better singer. It would be one thing if his chest voice was underdeveloped (which would be a matter of technique, not tastes), but the clarity of singing suggests that that's not the case. For those who begin to study opera seriously, it's surprising just how rare examples of truly good soft singing are. The vast majority of singers who attempt it sound like one or more of the following
1) crooning and/or muddiness (ex: Fleming and Price)
2) strain, often with a visibly tense neck (ex: Jessye Norman) 
3) whispery, disconnected production and vocal line (ex: Florez)
These are typically the result either of an under developed chest voice, bad support or a misplaced desire to put extremes of dynamics ahead of a solid foundation. None of these are evident in Thill's singing. It stays clear and unstrained throughout the piece.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Alexander isn't bad by any means and his technique is excellent, but he's a bit stiff in his phrasing and his legato suffers.
> 
> Thill on the other hand has it all and makes it all sound so easy. No contest, I'm afraid.


Even as someone who doesn't typically enjoy tenors that much, I've felt he was criminally underrated for quite some time. A good, strong voice who could keep up with the likes of Sutherland, yet never seemed to become famous by association the way Horne did. It's likely he suffers here because his singing style is a bit "bigger" than a lot of French rep calls for.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Even as someone who doesn't typically enjoy tenors that much, I've felt he was criminally underrated for quite some time. A good, strong voice who could keep up with the likes of Sutherland, yet never seemed to become famous by association the way Horne did. It's likely he suffers here because his singing style is a bit "bigger" than a lot of French rep calls for.


It's not just that his singing style is "bigger", it lacks poetry and this aria calls out for a sensitive response to the mood and the text. The voice is undoubtedly impressive, as is his technique, but he's just a bit penny plain and four square.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

It is so satisfying for me to read what you guys wrote about Alexander.No, he is not a great interpreter, but in my opinion it was a very gutsy, very beautiful sound. I just enjoyed listening to the sound of his voice, although Thill is plainly the greater artist.


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