# Baroque guidance needed



## jimji (Apr 25, 2007)

After several years of primarily listening to the Romantics, I've just started investigating the Baroque. Besides confirming my longstanding love of Vivaldi, I've found Albinoni so far to be more appealing to me than Corelli, Torelli or Zipoli. I haven't really scratched the surface yet of this era and someone 'out there' could save me a lot of time!
My question: Who in your opinion - or in the opinion of "the critics" - would be considered a great composer from the Baroque? (non-vocal only please)
Thanks,
Jim


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

jimji said:


> After several years of primarily listening to the Romantics, I've just started investigating the Baroque. Besides confirming my longstanding love of Vivaldi, I've found Albinoni so far to be more appealing to me than Corelli, Torelli or Zipoli. I haven't really scratched the surface yet of this era and someone 'out there' could save me a lot of time!
> My question: Who in your opinion - or in the opinion of "the critics" - would be considered a great composer from the Baroque? (non-vocal only please)
> Thanks,
> Jim


Are you kidding?


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## jimji (Apr 25, 2007)

Mango said:


> Are you kidding?


Mango asks if I'm kidding? Hmmm ... At first I didn't understand but I think what you mean Mango is that there are so many great Baroque composers. How long of a list do I want?!
If that's what you meant, then I wasn't specific enough. My question should have been: Besides Vivaldi, Telemann, Bach of course, Corelli, Torelli, Zipoli ... how about a name or two of 'great' / lesser known, maybe almost 'undiscovered'! composer (s) from the Baroque! Does that narrow it down a little? (again .. non vocal please)
Jim


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

jimji said:


> .....
> 
> My question: Who in your opinion - or in the opinion of "the critics" - would be considered *a* great composer from the Baroque? (non-vocal only please)


As you will see, you asked for the name of *a* great composer of the Baroque period.

I took this request in the singular literally, and obviously J S Bach and Handel spring to mind immediately, so I was a little surprised. These two tower above the rest.

If you want others: Vivaldi, Rameau, D Scarlatti, Telemann, A Scarlatti, Corelli, spring to mind. I take it you don't want mainly vocal composers like Monteverdi.

I hope these are helpful.

Your next question might be: what works?


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## jimji (Apr 25, 2007)

Thanks Mango - Rameau I haven't heard of and I didn't realise there were two Scarlattis.
This is a start! As far as which works ... If I mention that Vivaldi, Albinoni and Telemann are Baroque favourites at this early stage - it would be great to get specific pieces recommended. Thank you,
Jim


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

jimji said:


> Thanks Mango - Rameau I haven't heard of and I didn't realise there were two Scarlattis.
> This is a start! As far as which works ... If I mention that Vivaldi, Albinoni and Telemann are Baroque favourites at this early stage - it would be great to get specific pieces recommended. Thank you,
> Jim


I used to be a big fan of Baroque, and J S Bach in particular. But I've followed the reverse path to you, and became much more interested in later music (Classical, Romantic, Modern).

Some of my (still) favourite non-vocal works by J S Bach are:


Violin Concerto No. 1 in A minor
Goldberg Variations
Well-Tempered Clavier
Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor
Violin Partita No. 2 in D minor
Violin Sonata No. 1
Concerto for 2 Violins in D minor
Cello Suite No. 3 in C major
Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 in F major
Brandenburg Concerto No. 5 in D major
Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G major
Toccata and Fugue in D minor
Art of the Fugue
Fantasia and Fugue in G minor
Musical Offering
Orchestral Suite No. 2 in B minor

I hope you realise that by excluding vocal works you are missing a lot of superb works.

I'm sure others will join in, and soon you'll be inundated. If not, I'll come back with some recommendations for other major Baroque composers.


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## Leporello87 (Mar 25, 2007)

jimji said:


> how about a name or two of 'great' / lesser known, maybe almost 'undiscovered'! composer (s) from the Baroque!


For a composer in this category, I would definitely recommend you check out Zelenka, whose music I've only started to get into recently. Some absolutely lovely music and highly contrapuntal/fugal, though in a very different manner from J.S. Bach, the essentially universally acknowledged master of the fugue.


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

Me.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

May I advertise the greatest French baroque composers:
Jean Philippe Rameau
François Couperin
Marc-Antoine Charpentier
Jean-Baptiste Lully

Sainte-Colombe : the master of the viola da gamba:
I recommend you the film inspired by the life of Monsieur de Sainte-Colombe entitled, "Tous les matins du monde" with Jean-Pierre Marielle as Sainte-Colombe and Gérard Depardieu as the aged Marin Marais...






.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

I understand that everybody doesn’t like French baroque Music, even French people…
JJ Rousseau used to compare French Music with the scream of the diarrhoea ! ("le cri de la colique")


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## Handel (Apr 18, 2007)

French baroque music was a sub-culture of the baroque style. I do not mean that their music was subpar but rather specific to the country.

Of course, french style influenced Europe (i.e. french ouvertures) but they use some patterns that were absent elsewhere in Europe. For example, the vocal style was different of the italian bel canto who was having overwhelming influence elsewhere in Europe.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

I would also suggest:

1. Marin Marais (mentioned alongside Sainte-Colombe depicted in the film All the Mornings in the World)
2. Johann Pachelbel
3. Benedetto Marcello


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Sylvius Leopold Weiss, 1686-1750.
Contemporary of J.S. Bach, and considered to be the greatest composer of music for the lute in the Baroque era. Try any disc of his music.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Girolamo Frescobaldi


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I would not completely dismiss vocal baroque. It was baroque vocal works that finally got me into that style of art music singing as opposed to pop of folk style singing. Before focusing on those I had considered it just so much bellyaching.

Were it not for Bach's Peasant Cantata and St. Matthew Passion and Handel's Messiah and Dettingen Te Deum, I could not now fully experience Beethoven's 9th as I do. I still have a little trouble with most vocal music from the Romanitc period however. It's still bellyaching.


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Leporello87 said:


> For a composer in this category, I would definitely recommend you check out Zelenka, whose music I've only started to get into recently. Some absolutely lovely music and highly contrapuntal/fugal, though in a very different manner from J.S. Bach, the essentially universally acknowledged master of the fugue.


I've just discovered Jan Dismas Zelenka too, thanks to a helpful suggestion on another forum. Mr. Z. wrote a great deal of religious music, but I've bought his complete orchestral works on the CPO label, a 3-disc set, and to anyone curious about Baroque music I recommend it without reservation.


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

Here's a list of lesser-knowns... w/ youtube links for you to sample. These are mostly German, Bohemian/Czhec, French, English and Italian composers from the Mid-Baroque Stylus Phantasticus to the High Baroque / Late Baroque period. Just ignore those clips w/ vocal... enjoy relistening !!! 

*Heinrich Ignaz Franz von BIBER* - Sonata Representativa (sonata representatio avium - the Nightingale, the Cuckoo, the Frog, the Cock and Hen, the Quail, the Cat, the Musketeer's March) 




Biber's 15 Mystery Sonatas in Scordatura - Sonata 1 - The Annunciation (in normal violin tuning) in C 




*Jean-Ferry Rebel* - Les Elémens - Le Cahos (the elements, chaos) a "shocking" composition at the time (1737)





*Johann Heinrich Schmelzer* - 
Vnarvm Fidivm, Sonata Qvarta 



La Mattacina 




*Nicola Matteis* - diverse bizzarie sopra la vecchia sarabanda
version by Rachel Podger 



version by Amandine Beyer 




*Buxtehude* violin sonata in B flat Major 




Pisendel

*Tartini* - devil's trille *w/o basso continuo* 




Corelli - *Christmas Concerto* 




*Uccellini* - la Bergamasca 




*Ariosti* Viola d'Amore Sonata in E minor 




Ariosti Viola d'Amore Sonata in G minor 




*Pietro Locatelli* - his famous op. 3 - no. 1 in D 




Locatelli sonata No. 4 Op. 8 in C 




Locatelli violin sonata No. 5 in G - Allegro 




*Michel Corrette* - organ concerto 




*Georg Muffat* - Chaconne 




*Marin Marais* - Le Tableau de l'Opération de la Taille (chart of a waist operation [blader stone operation]) 




Marin Marais - Le Jeu du Volant (badminton game) 




Pergolesi

*Jean-Marie LeClaire* - op. 9 violin sonata 




Pandolfi

*Henry Purcell* - fantasia upon a ground 




*Zelenka* - Hypochondriac 




Hasse

Telemann

Chedeville

Triemer

Besozzi

Cazzati

*Monsieur de Sainte-Colombe* - Concert à Deux Violes Esgales «Le Retour» [concert for two equal violes "the return"] 




*Cavalli* 




Stradella

*Francesco Maria Veracini* capriccio in A 




Veracini menuet 




Veracini cotillion 




Veracini Toccata- Adagio, E Come Sta-Presto-Adagio 




*Jean-Philippe Rameau* - La Lapoplinière


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## Mark Harwood (Mar 5, 2007)

Thanks for the list, Mr. P. I. fan. Plenty to do there, in the winter months.


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## soundandfury (Jul 12, 2008)

I would recommend Stanley and Clarke (lots of trumpet voluntaries and the like), and of course Purcell. Mainly thinking of their trumpet stuff here (although there is some controversy over who /really/ wrote Purcell's 'Trumpet Tune' iirc).
<anorak>The interesting thing about baroque trumpet works is that the trumpets at the time didn't have valves, so they have to be really high so that the notes are close enough together, which is the reason why so many clarino parts (ie. natural trumpet) are so difficult and strange to modern eyes.</anorak>


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

*Marin Marais* - *Le Tableau de l'Opération de la Taille* (blader stone operation)


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

This video was posted by a good friend from Portugal, OedipusColoneus.

It features the English period-instrument orchestra *The Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment* joining forces with *The Freiburg Baroque Orchestra* directed from the violin by Gottfried von der Goltz.

*Haendel's Music for the Royal Fireworks (HWV 351)*

*1st part* - 




*2nd part* - 




*3rd part* - 




... *Enjoy the Grand Spectacle* !!!


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks, periodinstrumentfan.


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