# Do you consider Roger Waters a classical composer?



## Glaliraha

I take various things into account when I say this:

1. He doesn't only write music for rock ensembles.
2. His music is always the type that connects with people on an emotional level, but very intellectual all the same.
3. The effect his music has had on many people, and on its own merits, is very significant.

In any case, I consider him to be a musical genius and the greatest musical mind of the 20th century, and so far into this century.

Some examples of this genius's output:

It's A Miracle: 



Dogs: 



Mother:


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## Aramis

He's wannabe serious composer, just like others - Keith Emerson, Karl Jenkins and all those dudes that come from rock/fusion background. He used to be solid prog rock musician when he played with PF crew, shame he had to turn into pretentious guy looking pathetic with his high aspirations.



> greatest musical mind of the 20th century


Jokes.


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## Glaliraha

No need to be a knob.


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## Aramis

Glaliraha said:


> No need to be a knob.


I prefered to write this in more conventional way, but I'm still glad that my arguments changed your view on Waters so radically that "musical genius and the greatest musical mind of the 20th century" suddelny changed for you into a knob. Don't be so cruel though, like I said, he once was fine rock musician.


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## Argus

No, I don't consider Roger Waters a classical composer. Rock musician, singer-songwriter, bass player, guitarist etc are all more accurate descriptors.



Glaliraha said:


> greatest musical mind of the 20th century


I'm not sure he was even the greatest musical mind to have been in Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett and David Gilmour are strong competition for that title.

I will say that my favourite Floyd albums feature Waters' great songwriting abilities, and that post-The Wall, PF can be quite snore inducing. Gilmour's solo stuff I also find pretty dull; it seems he needed Waters to write the simple memorable riffs and lyrics so he was free to noodle away. So yeah, PF were definitely a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

These are quite enjoyable albums:


















(Although quite cheesy)


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## David58117

Glaliraha said:


> I take various things into account when I say this:
> 
> 1. He doesn't only write music for rock ensembles.
> 2. His music is always the type that connects with people on an emotional level, but very intellectual all the same.
> 3. The effect his music has had on many people, and on its own merits, is very significant.
> 
> In any case, I consider him to be a musical genius and the greatest musical mind of the 20th century, and so far into this century.
> 
> Some examples of this genius's output:
> 
> It's A Miracle:
> 
> 
> 
> Dogs:
> 
> 
> 
> Mother:


Eh, I think nostalgia is a huge part of Pink Floyds current success. Roger Waters definitely isn't a "classical composer" by any means, and far from being one of the great musical genius of modern day.

Hm, I wonder if in 25/30 years people will be saying "do you consider Jonathan Davis from Korn to be a classical composer?"


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## jhar26

David58117 said:


> Eh, I think nostalgia is a huge part of Pink Floyds current success.


Their success has to do with the fact that they were great at what they did. If it were only a case of nostalgia Yes and Emmerson, Lake and Palmer would be just as popular.


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## Rasa

What a chump


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## David58117

jhar26 said:


> Their success has to do with the fact that they were great at what they did. If it were only a case of nostalgia Yes and Emmerson, Lake and Palmer would be just as popular.


Notice I said *current* success. I think a lot of "longing for when we were young" is a huge part of their fan base today.

Being 25 and into a variety of different music, I think they have some very good stuff. However, my father in law who grew up listening to them, thinks much more highly of them than I do.


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## Genoveva

It looks like Roger Waters could be the latest rock musician who some people reckon is also a classical music composer. A few years ago it was Frank Zappa whose name kept cropping up in this same context. Even if the likes of Waters and Zappa may just about qualify as classical composers they’re not particularly good ones. The strong likelihood is that the only people who might consider them to be classical composers are a sub-set of those people who like their brands of rock music. The vast bulk of classical music fans however wouldn’t give either of them any house room as classical composers.


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## Delicious Manager

Easy answer NO!

I am a HUGE admirer of Pink Floyd (arguably the greatest rock band of all time) and also a great admirer of Roger Waters. However, by no stretch of the imagination could he be described as a 'classical' composer. His 'opera', _Ça ira_ is little more than a fully-orchestrated concept piece along the lines of _The Wall_, _The Final Cut_, _The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking_ and _Radio KAOS_. I don't say this to demean Waters' achievement in _Ça ira_ (which i DON'T consider one of his greatest achivements), only to point-out that it is NOT an opera and NOT classical music.


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## elgar's ghost

Way back in 1969 Deep Purple's Jon Lord wrote an album called Concerto For Group & Orchestra (Malcolm Arnold conducting, no less). I found it an uneasy mix of rock and classical and it gave the impression that it didn't quite know what sort of album it wanted to be. On various occasions Frank Zappa made a decent fist of it in his own inimitable way (he was a big Varese fan) but that was just part of his eclectic approach that see-sawed from one album to the next. I don't know if Rog will make anything of any lasting worth or if his classical output amounts to little more than over-ambitious vanity projects. What I do about Rog the musician is that for a fair amount of time keyboardist Rick Wright had to tune his basses for him on stage!


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## tgtr0660

Crossover is a total disaster. Rarely do we have anything good. Roger Waters is not any type of classical composer. He's a great rock musician, among the very best I would say. I saw him live in his The Wall tour and also years ago playing Dark Side of The Moon. In his field he's fantastic. Better if he stays there. Saying "greatest musical mind of the 20th century" is rather bold, to say the least. Where do we keep, just to name a few, Shostakovich, Bartok, Schoenberg? "Musical mind" would also include conductors and performers. Where do we leave Bernstein, Furtwangler, Fischer-Dieskau, etc? 

Pop artists should always stay doing what they do best. 

And, actually, so should classical masters.


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## Almaviva

Glaliraha said:


> the greatest musical mind of the 20th century, and so far into this century.


Whoa! Really? The greatest?
I love Pink Floyd and Roger Waters, but I can think of dozens of musicians who would have a much better claim to this title.


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## StlukesguildOhio

"the greatest musical mind of the 20th century, and so far into this century."

Whoa! Really? The greatest?
I love Pink Floyd and Roger Waters, but I can think of dozens of musicians who would have a much better claim to this title. 

I can think of a couple dozen pop musicians who would have a much better claim to such a title.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

I like Pink Floyd, but I see Roger Waters as being closer to Andrew Lloyd Webber than Verdi or Puccini.


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## Glaliraha

Andrew Lloyd-Webber is the ANTITHESIS of Roger Waters!


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## elgar's ghost

Back in the 70's/80's Sky were probably the most successful classical/rock 'crossover' group (at least in terms of sales) but I thought they were pretty dull despite all five members being accomplished musicians. Penguin Cafe Orchestra were much more 'genre-straddling' (to the point of being uncategorisable) and far more interesting.


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## Delicious Manager

SalieriIsInnocent said:


> I like Pink Floyd, but I see Roger Waters as being closer to Andrew Lloyd Webber than Verdi or Puccini.


Unlike Andrew Lloyd-Webber, Roger Waters writes ALL of his own music - he doesn't have a highly-paid ghost writer in tow.


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## Gymnopédie

He should be content with the reputation he has as a rock musician. There are few would take him seriously as a composer of "classical" music.



SalieriIsInnocent said:


> I like Pink Floyd, but I see Roger Waters as being closer to Andrew Lloyd Webber than Verdi or Puccini.


Funny you should liken him to Andrew Lloyd Webber.

In Water's own words: _"Andrew Lloyd Webber sickens me. He's in your face all the time and what he does is nonsense. It has no value. It is shallow, derivative rubbish, all of it, and it makes me very gloomy. Actually, I've never been to one of his shows but having put that slightly savage joke on the record, I thought I'd better listen to some Andrew Lloyd Webber and I was staying in a rented house in America this summer and the people who owned the house had a whole bunch of his rubbish so I thought I'd listen to Phantom Of The Opera and I put the record on and I was slightly apprehensive. I thought, Christ, I hope this isn't good - or even mediocre. I was not disappointed. Phantom Of The Opera is absolutely ******* horrible from start to finish." _


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## dtuan115

thank:tiphat:


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## LindenLea

Of course he's not remotely a classical composer, anymore than Peter Gabriel or Bruce Springsteen or Lady Gaga are!! Metallica recorded an album with a symphony orchestra, and Elvis Costello did one with a string quartet, but it hardly qualifies them as 'classical'.


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## SalieriIsInnocent

People see a violin they automatically think they are about to hear classical, so they call it classical.


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## LindenLea

There is I suppose something almost symphonic about the sweep and feel of some of Pink Floyd's music, as there was with early Genesis, there is an increasing modern trend for certain band's music to be arranged for orchestra - I've heard it done with the Beatles, Queen, Genesis, even Radiohead, most of it awful.


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## jhar26

I don't see why it's so important for some rock musicians to be considered classical anyway. It's almost as if they have an inferiority complex.


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## Gymnopédie

I'd have an inferiority complex too if I called myself a "musician" while being musically illiterate outside of a few chord names and scales like most pop/rock stars.


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## newromantic

For someone who couldn't tune his bass when he started out in the sixties, he has made a massive impact on music, I think he has brought some classical themes into Pink Floyd for as long as he was the main songwriter. I'd put him down as more of a songwriter-producer for his main strengths, Dave and Rick were always the genuine musos, Roger just knew how to use them to best effect.


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## johogofo

> [Of course he's not remotely a classical composer, anymore than Peter Gabriel or Bruce Springsteen or Lady Gaga are!! Metallica recorded an album with a symphony orchestra, and Elvis Costello did one with a string quartet, but it hardly qualifies them as 'classical'.
> ].
> He may be a giant in his field (along with let's say Hammill,Zappa,Fripp to name a few...),
> but he is not a classical composer at all.First 'Caira' isn't actualy an opera.
> Opera is a lot more than narrating and melodies .
> Second he didn't do the orchestration.He can't actualy read music.


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## kv466

Classical composer, no, but anyone here talking smack about him try and write something as magnificent and significant as The Wall and then come back and talk smack


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## regressivetransphobe

mcamacho said:


> Classical composer, no, but anyone here talking smack about him try and write something as magnificent and significant as The Wall and then come back and talk smack


So I assume you'll take it upon yourself to become a master chef before you decide that a meal tastes bad, right?

Anyone who thinks Floyd is the most sophisticated rock gets really needs to look into krautrock. So much more depth and vitality in Can, Faust, Cluster, etc. British prog is the Beach Boys in comparison.


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## Serge

Scratch that.


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## Argus

regressivetransphobe said:


> British prog is the Beach Boys in comparison.


You say that like it's a bad thing.


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