# Round One: Pagliacci Prologo. Warren and Gorin



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I killed Viens Leonora for lack of interest but was able to introduce a singer from that contest here I thought you might like. Here are two Jewish baritones for you.




I Pagliacci: Prologo · Ruggero Leoncavallo · Leonard Warren Great Opera Singers - Anthology of Vintage Opera Recordings, Volume 2 




*IGOR GORIN SINGS -PAGLIACCI PROLOGUE - 1945 BROADCAST*


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Gorin by a fair margin. His tone is brighter and more open, his articulation more varied and imaginative, his expression more vivid and specific. I can't remember ever finding Warren interesting or exciting.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Both great voices but what sets them apart for me is that Warren is not emoting the way that Gorin is. Gorin feels every word and therefore touches me more.
A vote for Gorin.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Gorrin's a new name for me as far as I remember, so thanks. Very expressive, "meant", "felt" performance, lots of relief and variety, and a wonderful timbre. And such ease, naturalness, as if the music is flowing in a totally inevitable unforced way from his body. There's something about the Warren which I find appealing, which is the poise of it. But Gorrin is magnificent, and I must hear more of him.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I’ve never been a fan of Warren, finding his voice grainy and unpleasant, though I was impressed with the amplitude here, possibly thanks to the recording. I much prefer Gorin’s voice.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Gorrin's a new name for me as far as I remember, so thanks. Very expressive, "meant", "felt" performance, lots of relief and variety, and a wonderful timbre. And such ease, naturalness, as if the music is flowing in a totally inevitable unforced way from his body. There's something about the Warren which I find appealing, which is the poise of it. But Gorrin is magnificent, and I must hear more of him.


I stumbled upon Gorin and thought the group would like him. I have another new one to the contest in the next round who may be new to some of you that I really like. I'm discovering I really like listening to baritones.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I killed Viens Leonora for lack of interest but was able to introduce a singer from that contest here I thought you might like.


The disadvantage for me is, I could feel romantic feelings for king Alfonso, but I can't for Prologo...


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## PaulFranz (May 7, 2019)

Not a Gorin fan, but it warms the cockles of my heart to see so little love for Warren. I keep hearing that he's the greatest "Verdi baritone" (whatever that is) of all time whenever he's mentioned.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

PaulFranz said:


> Not a Gorin fan, but it warms the cockles of my heart to see so little love for Warren. I keep hearing that he's the greatest "Verdi baritone" (whatever that is) of all time whenever he's mentioned.


I am the only person who likes the dark sound of Warren in these quarters. I had an opera buddy who worshipped Warren and he influenced me. I think the color of his voice is so beautiful. Others did too or he wouldn't have been so big at the Met but his sound has gone out of fashion. I think I will take him out of all future contests unless I get protests.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

I've been especially hard on Warren on TC. Probably hardest of all if I'm being honest. If he's reading my comments from the great beyond I'd just like to say I'm sorry and greatly respect him as an artist!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> I've been especially hard on Warren on TC. Probably hardest of all if I'm being honest. If he's reading my comments from the great beyond I'd just like to say I'm sorry and greatly respect him as an artist!


Warren had a big voice and could no doubt fill the opera house impressively. There are plenty of singers who need to be heard live to be appreciated fully. As we've said about so many, we'd be ecstatic to have him singing Verdi today. I find his sound a bit dull on recordings, but I'll give him the benefit of any doubt.

Was that nice enough?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

PaulFranz said:


> Not a Gorin fan, but it warms the cockles of my heart to see so little love for Warren. I keep hearing that he's the greatest "Verdi baritone" (whatever that is) of all time whenever he's mentioned.


This may be changing as people who heard him live are dying off. Reassessments are pretty normal. But not everyone "back then" placed Warren in the first rank. When I was learning about singers in my teens, my favorite critic, Conrad L. Osborne, was very clear about the relative merits of baritones of Warren's era compared to those of previous generations. His article, "A Plain Case for the Golden Age" (High Fidelity magazine, October 1967) details and compares performances by a number of leading "Verdi baritones" (I'm with you in viewing such pigeonholes skeptically) and is worth reading or rereading.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> This may be changing as people who heard him live are dying off. Reassessments are pretty normal. But not everyone "back then" placed Warren in the first rank. When I was learning about singers in my teens, my favorite critic, Conrad L. Osborne, was very clear about the relative merits of baritones of Warren's era compared to those of previous generations. His article, "A Plain Case for the Golden Age" (High Fidelity magazine, October 1967) details and compares performances by a number of leading "Verdi baritones" (I'm with you in viewing such pigeonholes skeptically) and is worth reading or rereading.


Osborne says something in that article that has made a huge impact on me. It's something I strive for and refer to often. He said:

"If a voice can negotiate a firm, smooth, even tempered scale over every note of its required range, on each of the pure vowel sounds, and if it possesses the capacity to swell and diminish between a legitimate _pp _and a legitimate _ff _without waiver or break on each of those pitches and vowels, then the technique is perfect."

I don't think many realize how few singers can actually do this.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

PaulFranz said:


> it warms the cockles of my heart to see so little love for Warren.


TIO in all its pejorative glory lives on.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I couldn't care less for the Prologo, but I decided to vote for Warren.
My reasons:
- I voted for him before in other contest, because I perceived him as a delightfully diffident count Luna. Probably it was a feature present only in the eye of the beholder (i.e. mine), and the diffidence effect might have been created by his uncertainty about the Italian language. Nevertheless, it worked on me. And Prologo is often sung by the same singer as Tonio, or whatever is the name of the rejected creepy character in this opera. So Warren gets my vote as Tonio (?) by analogy to Luna.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Gorin is totally new to me, so this will be interesting. (Wait! I've just realised I say that every time!)

I don't particularly like Warren's swallowed vowels and I find him somewhat bland. His use of head voice in the right places is very attractive, but overall I find his singing dull from a dramatic point of view.

Gorin has a naturally dark sound that I find more appealing than Warren's. He puts more into his interpretation than Warren as well and there are some nice effects such as use of portamento and dynamics that make this work better from a dramatic point of view as well.

Gorin wins.

N.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

There are no attractive characters in this opera. Being poor and put in a tight situation doesn't indulge them. Really, I tried to think about Nedda as Gelsomina in _La strada_, but I failed, she's just not that kind of girl. 
So, which of two lascivious clowns is more attractive. Gorin's voice is more beautiful. He would be good Onegin or di Luna. Warren is probably more appropriate for the role.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

And the winner is....NOT LEONARD WARREN!!! I could go last or first or anywhere in between and on TC it couldn't possibly matter. Bonetan ( of whom I couldn't be fonder) has sworn upon the altar of God eternal vigilance against all forms of covering over the baritone voice and Lenny's the poster child😉!!! And then Gorin sang his song so beautifully! But here's the thing....aside from here and an old compilation album I found in a used book store , I've never heard of Igor Gorin. And he sang the piece beautifully with blazing high notes! So how come I've never heard of him? I'm guessing the answer is similar to the reason that Mario Sereni rarely comes up in all time baritone discussion. He was in his prime when I started in 70. The stars.....old MacNeil, not so good, Old Merrill, still good but no one cared, Young Milnes, all ego and about to spit the bit early. And Mario, with a beautiful voice would get Valentin, Enrico, Belcore. It just wasn't big enough!!! They'd rather have MacNeil flat and drunk with all time high notes. It's like, would Melchior be Melchior if his voice was two sizes smaller? NO! So Even though Warren can bother me too, and even though Gorin is with him or past him, note for note, I still think in opera - not song - the house is the arena and the recording an artifact. IN the house, upstairs where I usually sit, I feel certain there would have been no contest. Leonard Warren!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

ScottK said:


> And the winner is....NOT LEONARD WARREN!!! I could go last or first or anywhere in between and on TC it couldn't possibly matter. Bonetan ( of whom I couldn't be fonder) has sworn upon the altar of God eternal vigilance against all forms of covering over the baritone voice and Lenny's the poster child😉!!!


🤣 🤣 🤣


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am the only person who likes the dark sound of Warren in these quarters. I had an opera buddy who worshipped Warren and he influenced me. I think the color of his voice is so beautiful. Others did too or he wouldn't have been so big at the Met but his sound has gone out of fashion. I think I will take him out of all future contests unless I get protests.


If you mean leave him in so he can win, I wouldn't hold my breath. This group has a well developed aesthetic regarding the baritone sound and Lenny ain't it! But when you........... ..you John!!! ...think he's really blazing, DEFINITELY put him in! That's the fun, right!!!?!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> If you mean leave him in so he can win, I wouldn't hold my breath. This group has a well developed aesthetic regarding the baritone sound and Lenny ain't it! But when you........... ..you John!!! ...think he's really blazing, DEFINITELY put him in! That's the fun, right!!!?!


I am fine being a lone wolf regarding singers. Warren makes me happy when he sings. I need not apologize for that but it is wasting the group's time to put him in future contests.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am fine being a lone wolf regarding singers. Warren makes me happy when he sings. I need not apologize for that but it is wasting the group's time to put him in future contests.


You're the maestro!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am fine being a lone wolf regarding singers. Warren makes me happy when he sings. I need not apologize for that but it is wasting the group's time to put him in future contests.


Don't do it John! Warren is a legendary baritone and he deserves to be represented even if he gets smashed repeatedly. I'm no longer able to do it, but I've learned a lot listening to Warren and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. He's both my least favorite baritone and the baritone that fascinates me the most at the same time.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> Don't do it John! Warren is a legendary baritone and he deserves to be represented even if he gets smashed repeatedly. I'm no longer able to do it, but I've learned a lot listening to Warren and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. He's both my least favorite baritone and the baritone that fascinates me the most at the same time.


One of the things I most like about him is he has a completely unique sound. Same with Merrill. I love that in voices. I'll keep him in some. So nice to hear from you!!!!!!!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Besides, 3:12 is a good results. Some singers get zero votes here.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ScottK said:


> And the winner is....NOT LEONARD WARREN!!! I could go last or first or anywhere in between and on TC it couldn't possibly matter. Bonetan ( of whom I couldn't be fonder) has sworn upon the altar of God eternal vigilance against all forms of covering over the baritone voice and Lenny's the poster child😉!!! And then Gorin sang his song so beautifully! But here's the thing....aside from here and an old compilation album I found in a used book store , I've never heard of Igor Gorin. And he sang the piece beautifully with blazing high notes! So how come I've never heard of him? I'm guessing the answer is similar to the reason that Mario Sereni rarely comes up in all time baritone discussion. He was in his prime when I started in 70. The stars.....old MacNeil, not so good, Old Merrill, still good but no one cared, Young Milnes, all ego and about to spit the bit early. And Mario, with a beautiful voice would get Valentin, Enrico, Belcore. It just wasn't big enough!!! They'd rather have MacNeil flat and drunk with all time high notes. It's like, would Melchior be Melchior if his voice was two sizes smaller? NO! So Even though Warren can bother me too, and even though Gorin is with him or past him, note for note, I still think in opera - not song - the house is the arena and the recording an artifact. IN the house, upstairs where I usually sit, I feel certain there would have been no contest. Leonard Warren!


MacNeil was, for a time, Foreman of the Singer’s Union, or some such, so he probably had some preferment on being cast.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Warren going out of fashion is a case study in how much more discerning we've become here on TC. Everyone who participates in these polls, even those who enjoy him, can easily identify what it is about Warren's voice & technique that's off-putting to some. I didn't foresee this when we began the polls, but I'm absolutely thrilled. Imagine if the opera going public displayed this level of discernment. Return of the Golden Age??  

John, I don't think I ever thanked you properly for taking the polls to whole new levels, so THANK YOU!!!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Warren going out of fashion is a case study in how much more discerning we've become here on TC. Everyone who participates in these polls, even those who enjoy him, can easily identify what it is about Warren's voice & technique that's off-putting to some. I didn't foresee this when we began the polls, but I'm absolutely thrilled. *Imagine if the opera going public displayed this level of discernment. Return of the Golden Age?? *


Don't know about a new Golden Age, but the Met would surely be even more strapped for cash than it is now.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> And the winner is....NOT LEONARD WARREN!!! I could go last or first or anywhere in between and on TC it couldn't possibly matter. Bonetan ( of whom I couldn't be fonder) has sworn upon the altar of God eternal vigilance against all forms of covering over the baritone voice and Lenny's the poster child😉!!! And then Gorin sang his song so beautifully! But here's the thing....aside from here and an old compilation album I found in a used book store , I've never heard of Igor Gorin. And he sang the piece beautifully with blazing high notes! So how come I've never heard of him? I'm guessing the answer is similar to the reason that Mario Sereni rarely comes up in all time baritone discussion. He was in his prime when I started in 70. The stars.....old MacNeil, not so good, Old Merrill, still good but no one cared, Young Milnes, all ego and about to spit the bit early. And Mario, with a beautiful voice would get Valentin, Enrico, Belcore. It just wasn't big enough!!! They'd rather have MacNeil flat and drunk with all time high notes. It's like, would Melchior be Melchior if his voice was two sizes smaller? NO! So Even though Warren can bother me too, and even though Gorin is with him or past him, note for note, I still think in opera - not song - the house is the arena and the recording an artifact. IN the house, upstairs where I usually sit, I feel certain there would have been no contest. Leonard Warren!


I couldn't care less whether Warren "covers" his voice or not. Opera is music, and it's drama through music. Gorin is musically and dramatically interesting. Warren is boring. I know what I want most to experience in the opera house, upstairs or elsewhere, and it isn't a big noise.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Don't know about a new Golden Age, but the Met would surely be even more strapped for cash than it is now.


I'll sacrifice the Met and whatever house if we can get great singing back. Hard reset.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> I couldn't care less whether Warren "covers" his voice or not. Opera is music, and it's drama through music. Gorin is musically and dramatically interesting. Warren is boring. I know what I want most to experience in the opera house, upstairs or elsewhere, and it isn't a big noise.


I can’t imagine anyone doubting the sincerity of your take. Your responses make clear that you are moved by music making. My belief is that the impact of stronger, larger voices is a distinctly operatic component that many respond to.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

ScottK said:


> I can’t imagine anyone doubting the sincerity of your take. Your responses make clear that you are moved by music making. My belief is that the impact of stronger, larger voices is a distinctly operatic component that many respond to.


Certainly. But does anyone here know how large or impactful Mr. Gorin's voice was? And who here ever heard Warren in the house? In some cases we can guess from a recording when a singer's voice is large or small in relation to the music being sung. Not in this case, I think. It's also true that sheer volume doesn't equal impact. I can only comment on what I actually hear, and in a recording that is primarily art, not volume.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Woodduck said:


> Certainly. But does anyone here know how large or impactful Mr. Gorin's voice was? And who here ever heard Warren in the house? In some cases we can guess from a recording when a singer's voice is large or small in relation to the music being sung. Not in this case, I think. It's also true that sheer volume doesn't equal impact. I can only comment on what I actually hear, and in a recording that is primarily art, not volume.


Gorin sang a couple of years (1930-1932) at the Vienna Volksoper, the Czechoslovakian State Opera, and various small-ish houses before coming to the US, where he was a cantor, then a favorite radio singer, and appeared on the concert circuit. He almost never appeared in the opera house in the US, making a belated Met appearance--his only appearance there--in a 1964 Traviata with Mary Costa and John Alexander. He did Rigoletto and Traviata on the NBC [TV] Opera Theater in the late 50's, a few performances of the same two with the New York City Opera in the early 1960's, and sang the title role in a Russian-language Prince Igor (Christoff as Galitsky and Konchak) at the Chicago Lyric in 1962. The last was broadcast and I used to have a tape of it (it self-destructed, being back-coated Ampex) so it's probably in circulation somewhere. I seem to remember the soundtrack for the NBC-TV operas going around on the tape circuit back in the day, probably in bad sound.

He recorded a _lot_ with RCA, including a thick 78 album of Mussorgsky songs including Songs and Dances of Death, the Nursery Cycle and several individual songs, among them:






There are two Prima Voce CDs of him, not echoed-up for once.

So it remains a question--did he ever sing a complete _Pagliacci_? And if so, was it one of those occasions where the Silvio does the Prologue?


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Bonetan said:


> Warren going out of fashion is a case study in how much more discerning we've become here on TC. Everyone who participates in these polls, even those who enjoy him, can easily identify what it is about Warren's voice & technique that's off-putting to some. I didn't foresee this when we began the polls, but I'm absolutely thrilled. Imagine if the opera going public displayed this level of discernment. Return of the Golden Age??
> 
> John, I don't think I ever thanked you properly for taking the polls to whole new levels, so THANK YOU!!!


Yeah, uhhhhhhhhh…. Not quite so fast😉🤔🤔🤔!!! My gripe with Warren stems primarily from the way Italian sounds coming out of his throat. I don’t find him dull - pretty much the opposite, I find him exciting - and I do not care about the vocal position or covering. I love your passion for your approach and I’ll buy seats to see you the first chance I get, BUTTT!!!!!!!!…..as far as…..”Warren going out of fashion is a case study in how much more discerning we've become here on TC.” I’m afraid that I insist on my place among the UN- discerning, finding Lenny in so many ways, to my tastes!😉😁🤓!!!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

MAS said:


> MacNeil was, for a time, Foreman of the Singer’s Union, or some such, so he probably had some preferment on being cast.


Yes he was. And he was famously outspoken. He’s one of my all time favorites and to me his best is way up at the top. I’ve always preferred him to Merrill. But I never thought he loved opera in the deepest way. Warren was more committed…. I feel I hear it in his singing!


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ewilkros said:


> Gorin sang a couple of years (1930-1932) at the Vienna Volksoper, the Czechoslovakian State Opera, and various small-ish houses before coming to the US, where he was a cantor, then a favorite radio singer, and appeared on the concert circuit. He almost never appeared in the opera house in the US, making a belated Met appearance--his only appearance there--in a 1964 Traviata with Mary Costa and John Alexander. He did Rigoletto and Traviata on the NBC [TV] Opera Theater in the late 50's, a few performances of the same two with the New York City Opera in the early 1960's, and sang the title role in a Russian-language Prince Igor (Christoff as Galitsky and Konchak) at the Chicago Lyric in 1962. The last was broadcast and I used to have a tape of it (it self-destructed, being back-coated Ampex) so it's probably in circulation somewhere. I seem to remember the soundtrack for the NBC-TV operas going around on the tape circuit back in the day, probably in bad sound.
> 
> He recorded a _lot_ with RCA, including a thick 78 album of Mussorgsky songs including Songs and Dances of Death, the Nursery Cycle and several individual songs, among them:
> 
> ...


That history is pretty good, and it certainly leaves one clear impression…. Bing knew who he was, but chose to use him for only one performance.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ScottK said:


> That history is pretty good, and it certainly leaves one clear impression…. Bing knew who he was, but chose to use him for only one performance.


Then, again… I believe the exact same thing could be said of Cappuccilli, and he eventually had a major career!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

ScottK said:


> Yeah, uhhhhhhhhh…. Not quite so fast😉🤔🤔🤔!!! My gripe with Warren stems primarily from the way Italian sounds coming out of his throat. I don’t find him dull - pretty much the opposite, I find him exciting - and I do not care about the vocal position or covering. I love your passion for your approach and I’ll buy seats to see you the first chance I get, BUTTT!!!!!!!!…..as far as…..”Warren going out of fashion is a case study in how much more discerning we've become here on TC.” I’m afraid that I insist on my place among the UN- discerning, finding Lenny in so many ways, to my tastes!😉😁🤓!!!


Yes, but those of you who enjoy him can still point out the questionable aspects of his singing/technique. I don't think this was the case when I joined TC. It feels to me that the number of very knowledgeable posters has increased quite a bit...you're discerning, but also tolerant lol


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Bonetan said:


> …you're discerning, but also tolerant lol


😆😆😆


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> That history is pretty good, and it certainly leaves one clear impression…. Bing knew who he was, but chose to use him for only one performance.


Well, where was he all during the 1940s? He could be compared vocally to Tibbett--I think he has thoroughly internalized Tibbett's 1926 Victor Prologo, which I suspect we'll be seeing in later rounds--and could have been of immense use after Tibbett's Fall 1940 vocal crisis, when Edward Johnson was bringing in Alexander Svéd and Frank/Francesco Valentino and giving more prominence to Robert Weede and Leonard Warren in part to cover for Tibbett, who made a slow and only partial recovery. Gorin was in the meantime something of a household word for his work on radio and discs. It must have been something of a choice on Gorin's part, at least until after the radio market shrank exponentially about 1950 and dried up in the late 1950's. Consider him the Eileen Farrell of baritones.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> Yes, but those of you who enjoy him can still point out the questionable aspects of his singing/technique. I don't think this was the case when I joined TC. It feels to me that the number of very knowledgeable posters has increased quite a bit...you're discerning, but also tolerant lol


If I do say so the contests starting with yours have I think been a great educating device and a way for us to be motivated to share our insights. Of late we have had an influx of very knowledgeable younger members who have added some refreshing new blood into the mix and I enjoy hearing the various pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff


ewilkros said:


> Well, where was he all during the 1940s? He could be compared vocally to Tibbett--I think he has thoroughly internalized Tibbett's 1926 Victor Prologo, which I suspect we'll be seeing in later rounds--and could have been of immense use after Tibbett's Fall 1940 vocal crisis, when Edward Johnson was bringing in Alexander Svéd and Frank/Francesco Valentino and giving more prominence to Robert Weede and Leonard Warren in part to cover for Tibbett, who made a slow and only partial recovery. Gorin was in the meantime something of a household word for his work on radio and discs. It must have been something of a choice on Gorin's part, at least until after the radio market shrank exponentially about 1950 and dried up in the late 1950's. Consider him the Eileen Farrell of baritones.


 I am glad some people liked him. I had not heard of him but to my limited ears he sounded like he would be worth a listen in the contest.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

ewilkros said:


> Well, where was he all during the 1940s? He could be compared vocally to Tibbett--I think he has thoroughly internalized Tibbett's 1926 Victor Prologo, which I suspect we'll be seeing in later rounds--and could have been of immense use after Tibbett's Fall 1940 vocal crisis, when Edward Johnson was bringing in Alexander Svéd and Frank/Francesco Valentino and giving more prominence to Robert Weede and Leonard Warren in part to cover for Tibbett, who made a slow and only partial recovery. Gorin was in the meantime something of a household word for his work on radio and discs. It must have been something of a choice on Gorin's part, at least until after the radio market shrank exponentially about 1950 and dried up in the late 1950's. Consider him the Eileen Farrell of baritones.


It’s an excellent point, and very persuasive. And I’m truly not trying to do devils advocate. It’s just that the one major point spoke to be very clearly… We’ve all heard of Eileen, Farrell!


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

ScottK said:


> It’s an excellent point, and very persuasive. And I’m truly not trying to do devils advocate. It’s just that the one major point spoke to be very clearly… We’ve all heard of Eileen Farrell!


I meant analogous to Farrell in that he settled into a radio/concert career rather than a stage career, and radio material counted as ephemera until fairly recently. But to take it further: he recorded a lot for RCA between 1938 and 1942, when the Petrillo recording ban hit; when it lifted, either RCA (which by that time had Robert Merrill to promote) dropped him, or he chose not to renew with RCA. In the 1950's he took up with a label called Golden Crest, which I bet no-one here has ever heard of, and which I never encountered in all my years of digging through grubby used-LP bins. Farrell recorded with a major label (Columbia) all through the 1950's and into the 1960's, with side appearances on other labels; so there was a steady stream of Farrell re-issues on subsidiary labels like Odyssey and Seraphim. I don't think RCA ever did LP re-issues of Gorin.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> I meant analogous to Farrell in that he settled into a radio/concert career rather than a stage career, and radio material counted as ephemera until fairly recently. But to take it further: he recorded a lot for RCA between 1938 and 1942, when the Petrillo recording ban hit; when it lifted, either RCA (which by that time had Robert Merrill to promote) dropped him, or he chose not to renew with RCA. In the 1950's he took up with a label called Golden Crest, which I bet no-one here has ever heard of, and which I never encountered in all my years of digging through grubby used-LP bins. Farrell recorded with a major label (Columbia) all through the 1950's and into the 1960's, with side appearances on other labels; so there was a steady stream of Farrell re-issues on subsidiary labels like Odyssey an Sereaphim. I don't think RCA ever did LP re-issues of Gorin.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ewilkros said:


> I meant analogous to Farrell in that he settled into a radio/concert career rather than a stage career, and radio material counted as ephemera until fairly recently. But to take it further: he recorded a lot for RCA between 1938 and 1942, when the Petrillo recording ban hit; when it lifted, either RCA (which by that time had Robert Merrill to promote) dropped him, or he chose not to renew with RCA. In the 1950's he took up with a label called Golden Crest, which I bet no-one here has ever heard of, and which I never encountered in all my years of digging through grubby used-LP bins. Farrell recorded with a major label (Columbia) all through the 1950's and into the 1960's, with side appearances on other labels; so there was a steady stream of Farrell re-issues on subsidiary labels like Odyssey an Sereaphim. I don't think RCA ever did LP re-issues of Gorin.


To those who don’t know, Odyssey was Columbia’s budget reissue label, as Seraphim was EMI/Angel’s. RCA had Victrola.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am glad some people liked him. I had not heard of him but to my limited ears he sounded like he would be worth a listen in the contest.


I've been a Gorin fan since a friend sent me a tape of some of his 78's twenty or so years ago. I think that he was simply crowded out at the Met by Warren, Thomas, Merrill, and MacNeil. The other problem for Gorin is that his voice was best suited to bel canto, and during his prime, the Met wasn't doing much of that.

If you want to hear one of the great recordings of the 20th century, find Gorin's recording of "Dagli immortali vertici" from ATTILA. I'm sure it's on YT.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I haven't read all the other posts and I haven't much time to write now, but I did listen to both performances and have no difficulty pronouncing Gorin the winner. A much more interesting and specific performance than the rather bland Warren.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am the only person who likes the dark sound of Warren in these quarters. I had an opera buddy who worshipped Warren and he influenced me. I think the color of his voice is so beautiful. Others did too or he wouldn't have been so big at the Met but his sound has gone out of fashion. I think I will take him out of all future contests unless I get protests.


I like Warren. His voice could be thick but in the 40s and first years of the 50s it was a wonderful instrument. He is beautiful Conte Di Luna in the Cellini Trovatore and a brilliant, tortured Rigoletto in a recording led by the same conductor as well as a live one from the Met in 1945. His voice was a good fit for a Rigoletto, with it’s rather unconventional beauty.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> I like Warren. His voice could be thick but in the 40s and first years of the 50s it was a wonderful instrument. He is beautiful Conte Di Luna in the Cellini Trovatore and a brilliant, tortured Rigoletto in a recording led by the same conductor as well as a live one from the Met in 1945. His voice was a good fit for a Rigoletto, with it’s rather unconventional beauty.


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