# Ockeghem anticipated Philip Glass, Ockeghem is early avant-garde astonishing!!!



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Look closely the motets Deo Gratias, the circular harmony that loop that flow again again and again, this kind of repetition would not be heard until philip glass, correct me if im wrong, so this make Ockeghem very bold and daring for his time, it could had been made today in 2017

Blast!!! what do you think, is Ockeghem retro or avant-...
Tell me what you think

Ockeghem is a 15 century classical composer and Philip Glass a 21 century composer and i find odd & strange similarity somesort of holy minimalism & serrialism(what do you think)

His this motets unique in it's own way, may i says yes it's to the level of brilliance of Leonardo da Vinci in estetic grandeur & art form to the fullest.

Do i make any sense here , did i stumbled onto something here or what, did some musicologist did similar observation all ready or perhaps a classical composer?

:tiphat:


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This motet, Deo Gratis, is it definitely by Ockeghem?

You do occasionally get pieces of music which are so repetitive that they make you think of Glass, another example is Bernard Storace' s Pastorele. There are examples in Schubert too.

According to wiki, minimalism is an aesthetic, which is marked by a non-narrative, non-teleological, and non-representational conception of a work in progress, and represents a new approach to the activity of listening to music by focusing on the internal processes of the music, which lack goals or motion toward those goals.[7] Prominent features of the technique include consonant harmony, steady pulse (if not immobile drones), stasis or gradual transformation, and often reiteration of musical phrases or smaller units such as figures, motifs, and cells.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Just remembered something very minimalist, the realisations of J S Bach's canons BWv 1072-1078 by Hans Abrahamsen here. Not my cup of tea.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

It is Glass who, IMO, poorly and desperately imitated the old Renaissance masters.

May I recommend something very similar, and even better than Ockeghem's Deo Gratis?

It is Josquin's *Qui habitat à 24*:






Such luminous piece. As if I heard light transforming into sound.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

silentio said:


> It is Glass who, IMO, poorly and desperately imitated the old Renaissance masters.
> 
> May I recommend something very similar, and even better than Ockeghem's Deo Gratis?
> 
> ...


Yes Glass could never write anything resembling Qui Habitat! The Josquin Motets really are special.


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## Eschbeg (Jul 25, 2012)

Ockeghem's _Missa Prolationum_ is arguably proto-minimalist: both the upper two voices and the lower two voices are asynchronous canons.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

If Ockeghem anticipated minimalism, Josquin can definitely be _mistaken_ for minimalism. Listen to this clip from 3:45 on. It could have been written 15 years ago at the height of the Holy Minimalism craze.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Manxfeeder said:


> If Ockeghem anticipated minimalism, Josquin can definitely be _mistaken_ for minimalism. Listen to this clip from 3:45 on. It could have been written 15 years ago at the height of the Holy Minimalism craze.


That's Peter Philips I think, correct me if I'm wrong, and the ubiquitous consonances and strong presence of soprano voices do make it sound like Holy Minimalism. There are less saccharine approaches to blend, voicing, balance and to ornamentation, especially flattening notes at the end of cadences, which make it less Walt Disney. If you can get hold of it, listen to Obsidienne Ensemble in the same Agnus Dei.

Thanks for posting, because it makes me wonder if the Tallis Scholars approach is inspired by Górecki etc.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> That's Peter Philips I think, correct me if I'm wrong, and the ubiquitous consonances and strong presence of soprano voices do make it sound like Holy Minimalism. There are less saccharine approaches to blend, voicing, balance and to ornamentation, especially flattening notes at the end of cadences, which make it less Walt Disney. If you can get hold of it, listen to Obsidienne Ensemble in the same Agnus Dei. Thanks for posting, because it makes me wonder if the Tallis Scholars approach is inspired by Górecki etc.


Thanks for the reference. I'm listening on YouTube. Nobody is going to fall asleep to that interpretation.

Yeah, the Tallis Scholars were instrumental in popularizing the Renaissance, particularly with their emphasis on a smooth, nonruffled sound. Actually, historically, that was correct for, I believe, north Germany. But I appreciate that the new groups are presenting the music as it usually sounded, with individual voices and all those crunchy harmonies.


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