# Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

The Ring is one of the monuments of human art. Wikipedia has a good article about it, and I will post links to some other articles in the posts below. I will also post links to other talkclassical threads about it.

Meanwhile --

How do you feel about The Ring? Do you love it? What does it mean to you?

Feel free to recommend favorite recordings as well. (I've only ever heard the Solti!)


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Love it. For me the finest opera(s) ever, and one of the best achievements in classical music overall.

I was introduced to the ring by the box of Solti recordings on Decca (a gift from my father in the 90s), and that remains my favourite. I also got the English version by Goodall on Chandos, as it was dirt cheap - but I would not recommend it.

I try to listen to the whole cycle once a year.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Ring it totally awesome from beginning to end. I love it. I don't listen enough because it takes such an extreme time commitment but that is not to say I don't care for its length, because I do like its length and, in fact, love the Goodall set because it is even longer!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Art Rock said:


> I also got the English version by Goodall on Chandos, as it was dirt cheap - but I would not recommend it.


I certainly would. Not only is it in my native tongue, but some of the singing by the principals (particularly Hunter, Remedios, and Bailey) isn't really matched elsewhere in the Ring discography.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> Love it. For me the finest opera(s) ever, and one of the best achievements in classical music overall.
> 
> I was introduced to the ring by the box of Solti recordings on Decca (a gift from my father in the 90s), and that remains my favourite. I also got the English version by Goodall on Chandos, as it was dirt cheap - but I would not recommend it.
> 
> I try to listen to the whole cycle once a year.


That is a great find, Goodall's Ring dirt cheap. I am sure many would love to find such a deal. Perhaps someday it will grow on you.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

It's incredible. I am blown away every time I listen to it and have been
listening to it for 30 years.
The scope, majesty, beauty and musical complexity still dazzle. 
It's amazing how Wagner was able to create a revolutionary work
that can still appeal to the ordinary person.

My favorite recordings at the present time include.

Solti Decca
Keilberth 1955 Testament
Knappertsbusch '57 and '58 Walhall

And yes, I love it.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2018)

Keilberth 55, Böhm, Boulez, Janowski (2nd one) and Young are my favourites on CD.

Since 2013, Melbourne has started a Wagner craze and I think the plan is to put on a production of the Ring every three years. I went in 2016 and saw a great production by Neil Armfield that examined the Ring for its theatrical tropes amongst other things.










I was particularly impressed with Fafner in _Siegfried_ as a gigantic head with makeup smeared all over his face, but revealing himself after being stabbed vulnerable, naked and in human form for his final words before death.

_Walküre_ was good too, a claustrophobic hut in the first act gave a real feeling of all three characters being in uncomfortable proximity to each other but propelled the developing love between Siegmund and Sieglinde. The huge spiral ramp in act 2 played out in an interesting way as the characters had or felt they had more power or control they were higher up, entering from above the stage or at stage level.

Of course, the famous _Jahrhundertring_ is still the best out there on DVD, wish I got to see it live. There's a DVD of a production from Copenhagen that I like a lot as well. The Kupfer ring ain't bad either.


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## Kiki (Aug 15, 2018)

I am not an opera aficionado, but I always find the portrayal of human nature in the Ring fascinating. 

From time to time I would put on Act 2 of Die Walküre, and what happened with Wotan never fails to intrigue me.

From his cunning plan which was never going to work, to how Fricka's righteousness backed him into a corner, to his confession that led Brünnhilde to defy his instructions and to go with what his heart wanted, and at the end he had to break Siegmund's sword by himself against his own wishes. Was that the moment when he gave up the fight? Fascinating.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

shirime said:


> Keilberth 55, Böhm, Boulez, Janowski (2nd one) and Young are my favourites on CD.
> 
> Since 2013, Melbourne has started a Wagner craze and I think the plan is to put on a production of the Ring every three years. I went in 2016 and saw a great production by Neil Armfield that examined the Ring for its theatrical tropes amongst other things.
> 
> ...


The Australian Ring looks interesting. It did look as thought they were trying to fulfil Wagner's intentions. Loved the gold and the rainbow bridge. Imaginative


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Always thought the Cherau was a good production as he actually had actors who looked the part on stage even if the stage directions were sometimes a little offbeat. This is good with hoffmann and Altmeyer


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

A few of the best 'Ring' related books:

_Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung: A Companion_. Probably the best in-print English translation of the full text, also including critical essays.

_The Wagner Operas_ by Ernest Newman. Excellent source of fundamental background information on all of Wagner's mature operas, including the Ring.

_Wagner's Ring: Turning the Sky Round_ by M. Owen Lee. Concise background information and synopses taken from Lee's radio lectures.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

So, it appears that poor Loge is condemned to the mountain top too. I just realized that the ring of fire around Brunnhilde is actually Loge himself. And he stays there to the very end of the last opera or for the duration of two operas. Poor guy.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

Fritz Kobus said:


> So, it appears that poor Loge is condemned to the mountain top too.


good, he had it coming, although he appears there only in a form of his leitmotif.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> So, it appears that poor Loge is condemned to the mountain top too. I just realized that the ring of fire around Brunnhilde is actually Loge himself. And he stays there to the very end of the last opera or for the duration of two operas. Poor guy.


In the last scene of _Gotterdammerung_ Brunnhilde instructs Wotan's ravens to fly to the mountain top and send Loge to Walhall where the gods await their end. Since Loge is fire and is technically not a god but an elemental spirit (just as the Rhine daughters are spirits of water), we can probably assume that it's he who destroys the gods. It adds an extra ironic twist to his last remarks about them in _Das Rheingold._


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> In the last scene of _Gotterdammerung_ *Brunnhilde instructs Wotan's ravens to fly to the mountain top and send Loge to Walhall* where the gods await their end. Since Loge is fire and is technically not a god but an elemental spirit (just as the Rhine daughters are spirits of water), we can probably assume that it's he who destroys the gods. It adds an extra ironic twist to his last remarks about them in _Das Rheingold._


Yes, it was on my second set of DVDs that I picked that up. I watched a whole set a couple years ago and read the Goodall libretto in a book. In the past month I have watched my second Ring on DVD and am amazed at how much I either missed or forgot. I am glad I have three more Rings on DVD so I can even better understand this great operatic masterpiece. Currently watching Walkure conducted by Haenchen.

Loge, by the way, is one of my favorite characters.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Yes, it was on my second set of DVDs that I picked that up. I watched a whole set a couple years ago and read the Goodall libretto in a book. In the past month I have watched my second Ring on DVD and am amazed at how much I either missed or forgot. I am glad I have three more Rings on DVD so I can even better understand this great operatic masterpiece. Currently watching Walkure conducted by Haenchen.
> 
> Loge, by the way, is one of my favorite characters.


He IS a delight, isn't he? He gives the lie to the claim that Wagner lacks humor.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> He IS a delight, isn't he? He gives the lie to the claim that Wagner lacks humor.


Indeed! A shame he is limited to Rheingold--although he is there in spirit in the remaining three operas.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

I have Die Walküre as a 3-disc set in DTS (a form of DVD-audio). Zubin Metha, Bavarian State Orchestra. Ha ha haa!!!


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## Sieglinde (Oct 25, 2009)

I love it and have a few versions on dvd, but it's a once a year thing at most. I need a whole week and some Mozart in-between to watch through. However, I do love to blast my favourite parts from YT when I'm ironing or doing dishes.

Wotan: *having a complete breakdown* 
Me, struggling with a pleated skirt: mood


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

It's more than music, it's an experience, especially live. I've been to two complete live Rings (Bayreuth and Seattle), but I don't think I've ever listened to an entire opera on CD in one go before.


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## txtrnl341 (Jan 21, 2020)

I recently watched a brilliant presentation of the Ring on Youtube done by Opera North. No props, semi-acted, with the singers in front of the orchestra which is dimly lit behind. It has very understandable subtitles even if a little license is used. I think it's a wonderful way to remind opera goers that there is really so much going on in the orchestra.
My perfect visually available Ring would be Boulez Das Rheingold and first act of Die Walkure (and to nitpik Waltraute's narrative as well from Gotterdammerung.) The rest would be the Met Ring with Jerusalem and Behrens which has it's faults but is set traditionally without nonsense to distract from the story.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Now I have Furtwangler/Orchestra of La Scala 1950 (14 CD).


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## cyberstudio (Mar 31, 2019)

What would you recommend as a beginner's cycle on blu-ray? I just watched Die Walkure on metopera.org last night and wow, what a magnificent experience!

As one's first set I would like to avoid overly radical staging and would prefer better sound and a lavish production over a top cast. The point is to get myself acquainted with the story so that I can always return to the audio-only great cycles later.

Thanks in advance!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

The only traditional staging I know is the Met version from the 90s conducted by Levine (it's only available on DVD). Another good cycle in a not too radical staging (from my memory) would be the Barenboim (also from the 90s) and that has been issued on Blu ray.

I have to add that there are quite a few cycles on Blu ray that I haven't seen (but I would expect them to be mainly radical stagings).

N.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

the barenboim la scala ring from 2013 is a largely traditional one with some extra ballet dancers and lots of digital projection. kind of dodgy singing compared to his bayreuth ring, but it's more colorful and fun to watch, i think.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

howlingfantods said:


> the barenboim la scala ring from 2013 is a largely traditional one with some extra ballet dancers and lots of digital projection. kind of dodgy singing compared to his bayreuth ring, but it's more colorful and fun to watch, i think.


I agree that the production is more interesting than the Bayreuth one, I wasn't sure how traditional/radical to rate it.

N.


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## cyberstudio (Mar 31, 2019)

Thanks for the help!!! Sorry I wasn't clear enough but I was setting the criteria over stringently. To elaborate a bit, when Die Walkure was on the Met's free nightly broadcast I showed the famous Ride to my 6-year old daughter. She was very keen and interested and I told her the story of the Ring and how Wotan wanted it back. I myself would need to learn the storyline so that when I listen to e.g. Solti or Karajan or else later I would know what's going on and my daughter would need colourful visuals to hold her attention. We are inexperienced and wouldn't have a clue if the cast is good. So long as you can still tell it's Norse Mythology it's okay. Based on @howlingfantods Barenboim's La Scala seems to fit the bill. I also seriously considered Mehta's Velancia cycle, too. As a Canuck I have a soft spot for anything even remotely related to Cirque du Soleil. Thanks!


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## SteveDavidMarlow (Aug 6, 2020)

I've been fascinated by 'the Ring' since I was about 14. I've gone through times when I wasn't so interested but have always come back to it. The Solti recordings were the first that I listened to, and they take some beating. I think being able to watch with subtitles is a huge advantage that aids understanding. For visual presentation, I quite like the Harry Kupfer Bayreuth production. I would like a more traditional staging, but I don't think there are any really good ones. I've recently seen some of the Opera North semi-staged production, which I find very interesting and which solves some of the staging challenges. For an understanding of the deeper meaning of the Ring, there is an excellent online book byr Paul Heise (about a 1000 pages long) which I read a few years ago, and which I found convincing - for this, search for 'Wagnerheim'.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I skip Rhinegold, but I love the other three and they have been the greatest live opera experiences I've ever had. I don't listen to the whole operas much, but play the best bits over and over. They work best in a theater. They did the Woodall Ring here in Seattle ages ago but before my time. I wish I had heard Rita Hunter as Brunhilde when she did it here!!!! I watch the Bayreuth Ring with Gwynneth Jones more than any other video set.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I had the very real pleasure of hearing Rita Hunter and Alberto Remedios when they brought the ENO ring to Glasgow in 1974. Norman Bailey as Wotan, Derek Hammond-Stroud as Alberich and Emile Belcourt as Loge were equally brilliant. Great days. I was a callow youth of 25. Yikes. Where did that time go?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> I had the very real pleasure of hearing Rita Hunter and Alberto Remedios when they brought the ENO ring to Glasgow in 1974. Norman Bailey as Wotan, Derek Hammond-Stroud as Alberich and Emile Belcourt as Loge were equally brilliant. Great days. I was a callow youth of 25. Yikes. Where did that time go?


You likely don't remember but I would love to hear what Rita Hunter sounded like in the house. Was it a gigantic sound or was it the way I expect: a voice that carried effortlessly over the orchestra but had more of a youthful/ lyric quality in the way it sounded.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You likely don't remember but I would love to hear what Rita Hunter sounded like in the house. Was it a gigantic sound or was it the way I expect: a voice that carried effortlessly over the orchestra but had more of a youthful/ lyric quality in the way it sounded.


No, I remember very well. The Theatre Royal is not a huge house but she carried easily through the whole place. Not a gigantic Nilsson type of voice but a definite Brunnhilde voice.

BTW it was 1976 not '74. I mistyped that! Charles Mackerras conducted and Raimund Herinckx was Wotan, not Bailey. Funny how the mind plays tricks with your memory.


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

The Ring Cycle is my favorite set of operas and was my introduction to the genre. I saw the entire cycle for the first time live at the Met last year and I was not disappointed. Die Walkure is my favorite of all of the Ring operas for the plot and its music; in particular, Act 3 of Die Walkure is my favorite. The only thing I have not figured out is what my favorite recording of the operas is. I've listened to three sets of recordings:

1. The Solti Wagner Operas Studio Recordings of the Ring Cycle
2. 1988 Daniel Barenboim Ring Cycle at Bayreuth
3. 2006 Christian Thielemann Ring Cycle at Bayreuth

Lately, I've been leaning towards the Solti recordings as my favorite Ring Cycle. I have also heard bits and pieces from recordings from the 50s at Bayreuth but I do not recall which years. Always interested in suggestions on favorite recordings.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

‘53, ‘55 or ‘58 Bayreuth if you’re going down that particular rabbit hole!


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

My preferred modern recording is the Barenboim. Other than that I am only interested in the fifties historic sets and my favourites are Keilberth 53, Keilberth 55 and Kna 58. I suggest listening to those three (they should all be on YouTube). The Walkure and Gotterdamerung of the Keilberth 55 is also available with Martha Modl as Brunhilde instead of Astrid Varnay.

N.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I make my own _Ring_:
_Das Rheingold_: 1952 Schuchter with Frantz, Schock, Metternich, Greindl, Weber, and Fischer
_Die Walkure_: Act 1: 1935 Walter w/ Melchior, Lehmann, List; Act 2: 1938 Walter/Seidler-Winkler w/ Melchior, Lehmann, List, Fuchs, Klose, and Hotter; Act 3: 1957 Solti w/Flagstad, Schech, and Edelmann
_Siegried_ and _Gotterdammerung_ I use Moralt's recordings with Treptow, Grob Prandl, and many other fine singers.


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## Eramire156 (Sep 28, 2017)

Barbebleu
My turntable is in disrepair but I recall that both Hunter and Remedios are in glorious voice


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Eramire156 said:


> Barbebleu
> My turntable is in disrepair but I recall that both Hunter and Remedios are in glorious voice
> 
> View attachment 141820


Ooh, Classics for Pleasure. That's a label you don't see every day. I've got a vinyl double album of excerpts from the Ring with Hunter and Remedios but I was sure it was Goodall conducting. I must go up to my loft and look it out. I will post a photo when I find it.

I see it has a Rackham illustration of Brünnhilde and Grane on the cover too. Nice.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I found the album. It was highlights of Act 3 of Twilight of the Gods from Sadlers Wells before they became ENO.









Sorry I can't seem to get this to post the right way up!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> I found the album. It was highlights of Act 3 of Twilight of the Gods from Sadlers Wells before they became ENO.
> 
> View attachment 141843


I'm pretty sure that this is the same recording that's currently available on Chandos CD:

https://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Gods-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000AA5


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> I'm pretty sure that this is the same recording that's currently available on Chandos CD:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Gods-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000AA5
> 
> View attachment 141902


Yes, I would concur. Might try for a download if one's available. I've not listened to it for about forty years:lol:


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Barbebleu said:


> Yes, I would concur. Might try for a download if one's available. I've not listened to it for about forty years:lol:


It's really a pity that the complete Goodall Twilight didn't have Bailey and especially Clifford Grant. Aage Haugland is an OK Hagen, but he's really the weak link in an otherwise strong cast.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm listening (finally) to the Simone Young and the Philharmoniker Hamburg that I got as a bargain a few months ago. I have listened to Rheingold and the first CD of Die Walküre - so far, a pretty good version.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> It's really a pity that the complete Goodall Twilight didn't have Bailey and especially Clifford Grant. Aage Haugland is an OK Hagen, but he's really the weak link in an otherwise strong cast.


I listened to this highlights disc last night. My goodness it's beautifully sung but very slow. Remedios is just so good. The hairs on the back of my neck were tingling during his dying monologue. I have him singing Lohengrin which I haven't listened to yet. I must remedy (Yes, I know:lol that.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Barbebleu said:


> <about Goodall> I listened to this highlights disc last night. My goodness it's beautifully sung but very slow..


The slowness is my major gripe with this version. Solti takes 14 hours 37 minutes, Goodall takes almost 17 hours.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Art Rock said:


> The slowness is my major gripe with this version. Solti takes 14 hours 37 minutes, Goodall takes almost 17 hours.


Oh my goodness, Solti could accommodate another _Das Rheingold_...


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Listened to parts of the 58 Knap recording recommended by Barbeleu for each opera from the cycle and I was pretty impressed. In listening to Ring passages on YouTube, I came across this recording:

Der Ring des Nibelungen, Seattle Opera, 2013

http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2014/06/seattle-opera-to-release-2013-ring.html

Felt like mentioning this recording in this thread in case some of you might have heard it before. An Amazon review encapsulated this recording beautifully: "the Tuba Ring Cycle". I've listened to a good chunk of Rheingold and parts of the the other three operas and I can tell you that it sounds like they put a microphone right above the tuba. Don't believe me, hear some of these passages:
















While the three selections I picked out already have prominent lower brass parts, this recording takes it to a whole new level. It is both amusing and yet fascinating to me, especially as I am a brass player. I am not the best judge of singing but I think that the singing is not particularly strong here either. If anyone ever wanted a Ring Cycle recording with the tuba as the star performer, your dreams have come true with this recording.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ThaNotoriousNIC said:


> Listened to parts of the 58 Knap recording recommended by Barbeleu for each opera from the cycle and I was pretty impressed. In listening to Ring passages on YouTube, I came across this recording:
> 
> Der Ring des Nibelungen, Seattle Opera, 2013
> 
> ...


Maybe a couple of microphones malfunctioned?


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## ThaNotoriousNIC (Jun 29, 2020)

Perhaps it was a microphone malfunction. Researching further online I found that the production had good reception from the people who attended performances; however, that didn't seem to translate to this recording. Part of me likes the obnoxiously loud tuba because I love brass, but it definitely will never be a go-to recording of mine. Works for me as alternative recordings for orchestral interludes I really like in the cycle like the ones I posted previously.


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## HoDiadochus (Jun 1, 2020)

Yeah for the Ring I like those giant voices from the 50's and 60's most. So Keilberth 1955 and some of the Knappertsbusch ones tend to be my favorite ones overall.

But as to the Solti, I really like Götterdämmerung. You just cannot beat, in particular, Wolfgang Windgassen on that one. I mean, he's great on live recordings, but in the studio he sounds absolutely incredible. It's hard for me to listen to other Siegfrieds in Götterdämmerung, simply because of how incredibly good Windgassen sounds on this one. He sings those melodious parts flawlessly, the woodbird narration for instance. Never heard another singer do it quite as well. Both nimble and melodic AND brawny and heroic. Lots of singers can do one of those, but he does both at the same time. Legendary.

And throw in Frick and Nilsson... yeah.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

HoDiadochus said:


> Yeah for the Ring I like those giant voices from the 50's and 60's most. So Keilberth 1955 and some of the Knappertsbusch ones tend to be my favorite ones overall.
> 
> But as to the Solti, I really like Götterdämmerung. You just cannot beat, in particular, Wolfgang Windgassen on that one. I mean, he's great on live recordings, but in the studio he sounds absolutely incredible. It's hard for me to listen to other Siegfrieds in Götterdämmerung, simply because of how incredibly good Windgassen sounds on this one. He sings those melodious parts flawlessly, the woodbird narration for instance. Never heard another singer do it quite as well. Both nimble and melodic AND brawny and heroic. Lots of singers can do one of those, but he does both at the same time. Legendary.
> 
> And throw in Frick and Nilsson... yeah.


To me, the Solti is supreme. And we almost didn't get Windgassen; fortunately Ernst Kozub, the original Siegfried cast, didn't pass muster.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

MAS said:


> To me, the Solti is supreme. And we almost didn't get Windgassen; fortunately Ernst Kozub, the original Siegfried cast, didn't pass muster.


In his defence I believe Kozub was actually in very bad health at the time and passed away not long after. I think he was probably too ill to invest in learning and singing this very demanding rôle. He concentrated his remaining years on earning in the opera theatres rather than on a project that may or may not have been an earner for him. There is a 1965 Covent Garden Ring cycle on Opera Depot with Kozub as Siegmund so he was good enough to sing there!


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## Agamenon (Apr 22, 2019)

science said:


> The Ring is one of the monuments of human art. Wikipedia has a good article about it, and I will post links to some other articles in the posts below. I will also post links to other talkclassical threads about it.
> 
> Meanwhile --
> 
> ...


A CORNERSTONE IN THE WESTERN CULTURE.

Solti? One of the best recordings, but also you can try: Kraus, Keilberth, Knappertsbusch. The 3 K´s at Bayreuth.

and don´t forget Furtwängler.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

science said:


> The Ring is one of the monuments of human art. Wikipedia has a good article about it, and I will post links to some other articles in the posts below. I will also post links to other talkclassical threads about it.
> 
> Meanwhile --
> 
> ...


It boggles my mind.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Barbebleu said:


> In his defence I believe Kozub was actually in very bad health at the time and passed away not long after. I think he was probably too ill to invest in learning and singing this very demanding rôle. He concentrated his remaining years on earning in the opera theatres rather than on a project that may or may not have been an earner for him. There is a 1965 Covent Garden Ring cycle on Opera Depot with Kozub as Siegmund so he was good enough to sing there!


Solti and Culshaw worked with Kozub in the early sixties (1961/63) - there's sketchy information about him and about his health and cause of death, and no credible information. But his death was in 1971.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Barbebleu said:


> In his defence I believe Kozub was actually in very bad health at the time and passed away not long after. I think he was probably too ill to invest in learning and singing this very demanding rôle. He concentrated his remaining years on earning in the opera theatres rather than on a project that may or may not have been an earner for him. There is a 1965 Covent Garden Ring cycle on Opera Depot with Kozub as Siegmund so he was good enough to sing there!


There's been a lot of discussion about this in another thread. It seems that Kozub was too busy singing to learn the part according to Culshaw. He had a car accident in 67 and then died in 71 which was much later than the 61 recording sessions.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Agamenon said:


> A CORNERSTONE IN THE WESTERN CULTURE.
> 
> Solti? One of the best recordings, but also you can try: Kraus, Keilberth, Knappertsbusch. The 3 K´s at Bayreuth.
> 
> and don´t forget Furtwängler.


Or Barenboim.

I know it's heresy, but I think the Solti set is overrated. I don't have it in my collection and the Ring is pretty much my favourite opera. It was a superb achievement in its day and the best of the studio Rings, however you can't beat Keilberth in 53 or 55 and the Barenboim from Bayreuth is much underrated (even though Evans is a lighter Brunhilde than usual).

I find Solti is best in the crash bang wallop repertoire and why his Elektra and Frau ohne Schatten work so well. (His Aida isn't bad either.) I don't find him sympathetic to the lyricism of most Verdi and Wagner.

N.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

The Conte said:


> I know it's heresy, but I think the Solti set is overrated.


I agree with you about the first three operas in the cycle, particularly Rheingold, which I find poorly cast, other than Neidlinger's Alberich. Walkure and Siegfried are excellent, but each has a serious casting flaw (Hotter's late Wotan in Walkure, Stolze's OTT Mime in Siegfried). But the Solti Götterdämmerung is tough to beat.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I love this summary of the Ring:



> When the mortgage on an oversize dream house proves unaffordable, the owner has no choice but to raise more cash by plundering little people, triggering a tsunami of greed that eventually results in global calamity.


That is in the opening line of this interesting article from New York Magazine 2009:
*The Fellowship of "The Ring"*


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

science said:


> The Ring is one of the monuments of human art. Wikipedia has a good article about it, and I will post links to some other articles in the posts below. I will also post links to other talkclassical threads about it.
> 
> Meanwhile --
> 
> ...


It has taken me fifty years to appreciate the work(s) but now I can admit it is one of the greatest artistic achievements in human history.

Recordings? I can honestly say I have no idea as to which are the "best" or only good - for me I much prefer watching the opera rather than listening. I might eventually get to know the works well enough to get something out of just listening, but as of now, I still have to watch the story to keep it all straight in my head. I'll watch the same opera several times in a row, different productions, just to get it in my head. Then move on. I''ve watched them all at least once, but on my third Siegfried with two more to go before I move on _Götterdämmerung_.

I enjoy the productions by the Met, especially those using "The Machine." But I've watched others and am slowly amassing a shelf of Ring DVDs.

The first recording I bought was the Solti set. I know it has been chosen by several reliable sources as one of the best, but I have no way to judge that determination until after I finish this current listening project. But as I said I enjoy watching the action and can tolerate only competent singing.

It is my firm belief that opera is a theatrical genre and I vastly prefer seeing it staged. I've never bought into the singer-priority school of thought. I need good acting, believable appearance, and effective staging in order to fully enjoy an opera.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

I went through a Wagner phase some years ago and not being fan of opera I did go through a bunch of 'Ring' cycles. The one that does it for me - by a long shot is Daniel Barenboim with the Bayreuth Orchestra on Warners. 
For me head and shoulders above ANY competition.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Subutai said:


> I went through a Wagner phase some years ago and not being fan of opera I did go through a bunch of 'Ring' cycles. The one that does it for me - by a long shot is Daniel Barenboim with the Bayreuth Orchestra on Warners.
> For me head and shoulders above ANY competition.


It's by far the best of those in good sound for me. I prefer Keilberth in 53 and 55, but I would put Barenboim above any other conductor of the Ring and his cast is better all round than Bohm for my money (and I can't get on with Solti's conducting).

N.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

*all out*

Das Rheingold prelude depicts the Rhine river, however not yet the river itself, which comes after the music has changed its key, later on, but Rhine river as The Eternal Beginning (in antithesis to nirvana the opera main characters leave for at Ring Cycle finale) which constantly gains power, rotates and propels itself ever higher, sees no boundaries while horizons ever more open and more, being induced with all on sense of novelty, ever inspired with everlasting ignition from the intellectual spark of no-substance eternal existence, as in the state of 'life has just begun' that now lasts forever and always gets bigger:






but we have seen only a stint of that process, the music then does a key change and enter the Rhinemaidens vocals, this - a material world of Sansara Wheel onwards, the river appears now as is.


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