# Half-dozen most essential Opera DVDs



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

As befits my status as middle-aged part-time curmudgeon, I sometimes get dragged kicking and screaming into the latest technologies, and a barrier I'll expect will finally fall very soon will be the medium of Opera DVDs.

So, my question to denizens of the forum is- *What do YOU consider to be the half-dozen *_VERY MOST ESSENTIAL_* Opera DVDs?*

(I'll be interested in seeing the responses...)


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> So, my question to denizens of the forum is- *What do YOU consider to be the half-dozen *_VERY MOST ESSENTIAL_* Opera DVDs?*


I'm as resistant as you are. On the whole, opera on DVD doesn't quite work, for me, and so I only buy a DVD if I manage to persuade myself that I can't manage without it. The outcome of this policy (you'll think this is absurd) is that I actually only possess _three!_ However, of those three, only two turned out to be essential:


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

I'm a big fan of opera on DVD and I will no doubt invest in them even more in the future. As an opera fan I really can see no reason for NOT wanting them on DVD - I LOVE 'EM! It's a pity that the stars of old haven't been captured on film like those of more recent times. It would have been exciting to have been able to see, say, Rosa Ponselle's Norma or Lotte Lehmann's Marschallin.

Whether they are the most essential is something I don't know, but I know that these are half a dozen I really, really love....


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> As an opera fan I really can see no reason for NOT wanting them on DVD - I LOVE 'EM!


I should have explained that I can't identify any good reason, except that in practice it seems that I nearly always prefer to listen to the music with images in my head, rather than watching them on the TV screen. I've no idea why this is (nor why the two I mentioned above are exceptions) - it's just a personal thing.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> I should have explained that I can't identify any good reason, except that in practice it seems that I nearly always prefer to listen to the music with images in my head, rather than watching them on the TV screen. I've no idea why this is (nor why the two I mentioned above are exceptions) - it's just a personal thing.


Well, I mostly love traditional productions which by and large correspond with the images I have in my head when I just listen to the cd's. I'm probably an old fart but more often than not I hate modern productions with a passion. That Giulio Cesare is one of the few exceptions.


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## phoenixshade (Dec 9, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> I'm probably an old fart but more often than not I hate modern productions with a passion. That Giulio Cesare is one of the few exceptions.


Well, I'm guess I'm a "young fart," then, because I'm right there with you. Ditto for Shakespeare. I have a hard time taking Hamlet seriously when he's dressed as a WWI German officer. (I actually attended a performance where this was the case, and found myself listening with my eyes closed a good deal of the time!)

Maybe if more people living today took any interest whatsoever in studying history, there would be less of a drive to "modernize" sets and costumes.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

phoenixshade said:


> Well, I'm guess I'm a "young fart," then, because I'm right there with you. Ditto for Shakespeare. I have a hard time taking Hamlet seriously when he's dressed as a WWI German officer. (I actually attended a performance where this was the case, and found myself listening with my eyes closed a good deal of the time!)
> 
> Maybe if more people living today took any interest whatsoever in studying history, there would be less of a drive to "modernize" sets and costumes.


And when you read the reviews the day after 80% is about the production. As if it's a major creative achievement to put Hamlet in a WW II costume or to set _Cosi Fan Tutte_ in the late 20th century. And many critics actually applaud such mutulations. What's more, they tend to call traditional productions 'boring.' Personally I'm far more interested in what Mozart, Verdi, Wagner or Strauss had in mind than in whatever absurd concept some pretentious producer is trying to shove down my throat.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> ... a barrier I'll expect will finally fall very soon will be the medium of Opera DVDs.


It fell.

As I related on the "Recent Purchases" thread, I picked up the 1983 Barenboim/Bayreuth *Tristan und Isolde*.

Getting back to the recommendations of _this_ thread, though, how can I not be intrigued by the multiple mentions of the Solti/ROHCG *Der Rosenkavalier*?!

@ jhar... In what year was that *Bohème* recorded?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> It fell.
> 
> As I related on the "Recent Purchases" thread, I picked up the 1983 Barenboim/Bayreuth *Tristan und Isolde*.
> 
> ...


Thanks for those thoughts on the *Tristan und Isolde* dvd you've bought. Sounds like a good one.

That *La Boheme* was recorded at the San Francisco opera in 1988.


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## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

As for essential DVDs, I'll start with the very enjoyable Ingmar Bergman film of the Magic Flute. It's reasonably authentic, has very acceptable singing, and is a true visual treat.

I really enjoy the double feature DVD from the Met of Il Tabarro and Pag. I regard Tabarro as one of the most dramatic of all operas, and it's very underperformed. The DVD is, naturally, visual, which is of course a requirement of any good operatic DVD, but the music and singing is also superb.

Another first rate dramatic DVD is the Met's Das Rheingold w. James Morris. The scenic presentation is the best.

Let me summarize in that a good opera DVD has to be theatrical, otherwise you may as well just listen to a CD. And the video cannot overpower or usurp the music, but must instead follow it naturally.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I had a "those-were-the-days" moment thinking about this old thread...

I've still managed to hold onto my wallet, pretty much, and have kept my opera-DVD collection very, very small. 

So now that we have newer arrivals who enthusiastically discuss opera DVD, as well as new converts (), 
I thought I'd bumpy-bump this thread and open the floor for fresh responses.:tiphat:


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I had a "those-were-the-days" moment thinking about this old thread...
> 
> I've still managed to hold onto my wallet, pretty much, and have kept my opera-DVD collection very, very small.
> 
> ...


An inspired idea!

I'm amazed by how much water has passed under the bridge during the last two years. I see that when I posted back then, I only owned three opera DVDs! My, my! Well, I have a lot more than that now, and my list of essentials would be very different. I'm still resistive to the idea - I still think that opera on TV is a very mixed business, but there are some that are so blindingly good that they overcame even my long-held prejudices. Here we go:










It's old (1965); it's a movie; it has problems with lip-synching and sound balance. But I've never been so moved by anything that I've ever seen on a TV set before. (Not just opera - I mean _anything_.) Freni defines Mimi once and for all, and somehow succeeds in unifying the whole production through her singing and acting and general bearing, bringing out the very best in all the other performers in the process.










Will there ever be a Handel opera DVD to surpass this? I doubt it? Despite the transformation of the setting to the 19th century (which would normally make me cringe in dismay), this justifies itself on every count. Danielle de Niese brings a Kylie Minogue style of performance to Glyndebourne, and raises her art to a whole new level. The choreography is staggering, and makes one realise how clumsily the characters move in most 'ordinary' productions. Watchable and listenable to, over and over again. And again.










Possibly the most beautiful opera production I've ever seen. This as as close as we'll ever get to seeing what the Sun King saw, and hearing what he heard. The sets are as historically authentic as they could be (even down to the stage lighting) and even the smallest gestures are made to convey the most telling symbolic effect.










It may not be perfectly historically authentic in literal terms, but in spirit this must surely come very close to what Rameau intended for the piece. Christie & Co whisk us around the world, contemplating the ideals of love and gallantry with tremendous panache. Brilliant to watch, and brilliant to listen to. Vive Petibon! Notable for concluding with the best (indeed only) onstage party that I've ever seen on an opera DVD, and for leaving us at the end saying, 'no, please stay, don't go.....'










For me this surpasses the wonderful Rosenkavalier I marked up as 'essential', earlier in this thread. Here the combination of Gwyneth Jones (who for me defines the Marschallin unforgettably), Lucia Popp, and Brigitte Fassbaender makes for a trio capable of producing the most exquisite performances. The sets are staggeringly beautiful, and Kleiber's orchestra ripples and flashes like a mountain stream, never losing an opportunity to make sparkling comment on the proceedings.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> Well, I mostly love traditional productions which by and large correspond with the images I have in my head when I just listen to the cd's. I'm probably an old fart but more often than not I hate modern productions with a passion. That Giulio Cesare is one of the few exceptions.


.....a few years later I've become a bit more tolerant of 'modern' productions. Although I still lean towards being a traditionalist I've seen enough good modern productions to accept that it CAN produce some very interesting results.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I thought I'd bumpy-bump this thread and open the floor for fresh responses.


Fresh indeed, I'll quote six relatively recent productions, all six *extremely* good.























































The first five are also available on blu-ray disc.

All six are powerful masterpieces, of the kind you'd take to the proverbial desert island.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

We're talking 'essentials' here, rather than the merely good, aren't we - and Almaviva's list reminds me that I should have put this in my list:










In terms of sheer quantities of blue sky alone it deserves its place - but everything about this production is first class, with brilliant, seriously brilliant, acting; terrific singing (six out of five stars to Miah Persson); stunning sets. And between them, in among all the delicious humour, these guys make you ache over the joys and heartbreaks and confusions of the human condition.

I see we now have TWO mentions each for the Glyndebourne _Giulio_, and the Christie _Les Indes Galantes_. Solid agreement building up here.


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## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

Almaviva said:


>


I really, really enjoyed this one. Highly recommended indeed!


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## World Violist (May 31, 2007)

I'll have to look into some of these; being one of the aforementioned "new converts" (provisionally--I've got but two operas on DVD) I suppose I'd better check out some of the older operas in this list (and Monteverdi's Orfeo especially).

First things first, though. I just ordered a DVD of Kaija Saariaho's L'amour de Loin, which from the few Youtube clips there are seems to me a singularly beautiful DVD all around, music, staging, everything.


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## ChamberNut (Jan 30, 2007)

This is one I can highly recommend. Not so much for the sound and picture, as the quality is not that great. However, Maria Ewing's performance as Salome more than makes up for that!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

ChamberNut said:


> This is one I can highly recommend. Not so much for the sound and picture, as the quality is not that great. However, Maria Ewing's performance as Salome more than makes up for that!


Maria Ewing is an interesting artist. This Salomé, and her Carmen, are indeed good. But I'm afraid they are good more thanks to her acting skills than to her singing skills.
She is, by the way, the mother of a young American actress who was one of the principals in Vicky Christina Barcelona.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

ChamberNut said:


> I really, really enjoyed this one. Highly recommended indeed!


It's an astounding masterpiece. Not only one of the best productions I've seen, but also one of the best operas I've seen.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> We're talking 'essentials' here, rather than the merely good, aren't we - and Almaviva's list reminds me that I should have put this in my list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait until you see the Così that I've quoted above (Salzburg).
This one from Glyndebourne, which I own and love as well, I'd grade an 11 out of 10.
The problem is, the Salzburg one is a 15 out of 10. And they got Miah Persson too, and she sings even better than she did at Glyndebourne.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Ok, my six...























































...three or four others I love just as much, but since there's a six DVD limit I'll settle for these today.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Others have already mentioned ones that I would have put top of my list - Cosi from Glyndebourne, Cadmus et Hermione, Kleiber Rosenkavalier, Les Indes Galantes, Giulio Cesare. I would recommend these to others with no hint of disquiet.

Here are some more I would not be without - I don't think they are as perfect, in fact I suspect some people would not like them, but they are among my personal favourites:

















































Darn. Now I can think of quite a few more that I would add to the list. All I can say is that if I could sell my DVDs easily these would be among the last to go.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Others have already mentioned ones that I would have put top of my list - Cosi from Glyndebourne, Cadmus et Hermione, Kleiber Rosenkavalier, Les Indes Galantes, Giulio Cesare. I would recommend these to others with no hint of disquiet.
> 
> Here are some more I would not be without - I don't think they are as perfect, in fact I suspect some people would not like them, but they are among my personal favourites:
> 
> ...


I entirely agree with the Eugene Onegin, it could be in my list too but TalkClassical only allows 6 images per post.

I need to see this Admeto.

I'm quite annoyed with Amazon.com.uk - my Barenboim ring has been paid for, supposedly dispatched, but never arrived. It's one week late counting from the last date of their range (which is already lengthy), and they want me to wait until November 4 before they do something.

I also need to see this Cadmus and Hermione.

But I'm telling you guys, you will stop quoting the Glyndebourne Così as soon as you see the Salzburg Così, which *is* the new standard. Am I the only one here who saw it?

I'm also surprised that nobody else quoted the Salzburg Traviata. I think it is easily one of the top 10 DVD/blu-rays of all time.

Giulio Cesare and Les Indes Galantes seem to be a wide consensus, and again, I entirely agree.

When we do the TalkClassical Convention in the Loire valley, we'll have our DVD/Blu-Ray Oscar (or rather, César, since we'll be in France).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I'm also surprised that nobody else quoted the Salzburg Traviata. I think it is easily one of the top 10 DVD/blu-rays of all time.


I don't really like it that much...

I find the symbolism heavy handed, and I prefer stagings of La traviata closer in spirit to the original setting of the 19C demi-monde.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> I don't really like it that much...
> 
> I find the symbolism heavy handed, and I prefer stagings of La traviata closer in spirit to the original setting of the 19C demi-monde.


But... but...
Anna is scorching hot!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> ...three or four others I love just as much, but since there's a six DVD limit I'll settle for these today.


I have ordered this one, but it is damn expensive! $51 on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.

I have also ordered the Admeto recommended by Natalie.

What are the three or four others you love just as much?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> [Cadmus & Hermione] I have ordered this one, but it is damn expensive! $51 on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.


You won't. If I damaged mine and had to pay $51 to replace it, I wouldn't hesitate. Honestly, it's the most wonderful achievement: you'll feel as if you've entered a time capsule. But it's not just the sense of historical authenticity - it's a consummate work of art in its own right, and you'll never see _hands_ used with more expression, or weighted with deeper meaning. There are sections in it that will haunt me for the rest of my life.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> You won't. If I damaged mine and had to pay $51 to replace it, I wouldn't hesitate. Honestly, it's the most wonderful achievement: you'll feel as if you've entered a time capsule. But it's not just the sense of historical authenticity - it's a consummate work of art in its own right, and you'll never see _hands_ used with more expression, or weighted with deeper meaning. There are sections in it that will haunt me for the rest of my life.


Wow! OK, so once I watch it I'll post about it.
But you know that my unwatched pile is huge, so, I don't know when I'll get to it.
I'm just thinking about this: I pay for a Prime membership in order to get my delivery in two days... but then the discs I buy get to the unwatched pile and I watch them a couple of months later... why pay for a Prime membership? Stupid me.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Wait until you see the Così that I've quoted above (Salzburg).
> This one from Glyndebourne, which I own and love as well, I'd grade an 11 out of 10.
> The problem is, the Salzburg one is a 15 out of 10. And they got Miah Persson too, and she sings even better than she did at Glyndebourne.


But but but ... it's an anachronistic production, updated to the 20th century, Alma. And for me (I appreciate not for others) that would knock its star rating down significantly because in the redating I always feel that some aspect of the artistic unity is damaged. (Even _Giulio Cesare_ loses points for this). And oh, I'd miss those blue skies, too. The Saltzburg looks a bit gloomy by comparison.

I'll post a couple of bits of youtube so that passers-by can judge for themselves:

1st sample

2nd sample

Sudden afterthought - there's nothing worse than knocking someone else's revered treasure, and I hope it doesn't seem as if I'm doing that. I'm talking here about my personal preference for sticking to the traditonal setting - not making some absolute judgement on this particular production.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I have ordered this one, but it is damn expensive! $51 on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.


I got mine from Amazon France where it's cheaper. 21 Euros at the moment (not sure how that translates into US currency, + postage of course.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> But but but ... it's an anachronistic production, updated to the 20th century, Alma. And for me (I appreciate not for others) that would knock its star rating down significantly because in the redating I always feel that some aspect of the artistic unity is damaged. (Even _Giulio Cesare_ loses points for this). And oh, I'd miss those blue skies, too. The Saltzburg looks a bit gloomy by comparison.
> 
> I'll post a couple of bits of youtube so that passers-by can judge for themselves:
> 
> ...


I hear you, my friend, and you know from my anger at pregnant Brunnhildes and the such that I am in many regards a traditionalist when it comes to opera. I'm the one who keeps defending a traditional staging for the Ring. But this Salzburg Così is just too good. And it's not gloomy, you'll see when they open up the stage to show the garden. It has an uncanny sense of comedy, I laughed out loud several times. It's playful and alive. These three girls (Miah, Isabel, Patricia) look drop-dead gorgeous and sing even better, and play their roles with gusto. The acting is exquisite from all six principals. The Wienner Philharmoniker is a show stopper. You gotta see it to believe it, but you will forget the modern staging once it gets going. Like I said in my initial review, this *is* Mozart's and Da Ponte's Così, in spite of the modern furniture and clothing. You want to knock out three points for the update, so be it, get it down from 15 out of 10 to 12 out of ten, it's still better than Glyndebourne's 11 out of 10.

By the way, I had watched parts of it on YouTube then I decided to stop and wait for the Blu-ray to arrive, not to spoil it. But on YouTube you can't realize the full glory of this production. Case in point, I checked out Patricia Petibon's Despina on YouTube and found it lacking. Then when I saw it at home in gorgeous high definition, large screen, and DTS 5.1 sound, I thought, "what was I thinking? Patricia has nailed the part perfectly!" to the point that I subtitled my review "the Patricia Petibon show."

The YouTube is from a TV broadcast of this performance. The Blu-ray on the other hand conveys the full impact of this staging - for instance, the projection of home movies on the walls of the apartment showing the girls interacting with their beloveds adds a whole new dimension.

I fully understand that others may not share my enthusiasm, but I found this blu-ray to be one of the most rewarding opera videos I've ever seen, and when I place it on my list of 6 essentials, I mean it.

Again, I own and love the Glyndebourne production, don't read me wrong, and before I bought this one I thought I was wasting my money because nothing could possibly top the Glyndebourne. Well, I was wrong, and while I'll keep my Glyndebourne and watch it as well from time to time, there is no doubt in my mind that this one is superior.

So, I ask you to give it a chance. If then you don't like it, I'll understand, but don't dismiss it just because it is an updated production. It is, but in a tasteful and talented manner that has no outrageous regietheater BS.

And I repeat, the three girls look drop-dead gorgeous...

I think your wife will like the boys too.

To return the favor, I'll post the Glyndebourne Guarda Sorella:


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> And it's not gloomy, you'll see when they open up the stage to show the garden. It has an uncanny sense of comedy, I laughed out loud several times. It's playful and alive. These three girls (Miah, Isabel, Patricia) look drop-dead gorgeous and sing even better, and play their roles with gusto. The acting is exquisite from all six principals. The Wienner Philharmoniker is a show stopper. You gotta see it to believe it, but you will forget the modern staging once it gets going. Like I said in my initial review, this *is* Mozart's and Da Ponte's Così, in spite of the modern furniture and clothing. You want to knock out three points for the update, so be it, get it down from 15 out of 10 to 12 out of ten, it's still better than Glyndebourne's 11 out of 10.


You're a persuasive fellow! OK, I get what you're saying, and at some stage (when I'm back in funds) I'll give it a go.*

I've experienced that 'inadequacy of youtube' issue myself - useful though it is to get a preview, sometimes the limited quality of the preview can do a serious disservice to the 'real thing'.

*Blimey! Have you seen the _price_ of it?! (See here.) Is the disc made of gold?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> You're a persuasive fellow! OK, I get what you're saying, and at some stage (when I'm back in funds) I'll give it a go.*
> 
> I've experienced that 'inadequacy of youtube' issue myself - useful though it is to get a preview, sometimes the limited quality of the preview can do a serious disservice to the 'real thing'.
> 
> *Blimey! Have you seen the _price_ of it?! (See here.) Is the disc made of gold?


Well, the content is pure gold.
At the time when I bought it, I had sticker shock as well. I called it a splurge, and don't regret it. By the way, the blu-ray I believe sells for the same price, so if you're so equipped, I recommend it. It does make a difference in terms of image and sound.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Well, the content is pure gold.


I've been looking at some more youtube samples and - while we've acknowledged the limitations of youtube - I think this may be one of those 'love it or hate it' productions. For example, I watched Patricia Petibon performing with her personal stereo, and playing air guitar .... oh gosh, I seriously couldn't live with that. As you know I think at her best, she's wonderful, but she can also be, shall we say, 'Petibonesque-_extreme_' - and she's that, here. Some may love it, but it's a big switch-off for me. So, already worried, I turned to what for me is the highpoint of the opera, 'Soave sia il vento', and I'm really sorry to say it, but it didn't do it for me.

Part of the problem is that I don't like the stage set. It seems dark and gloomy and sometimes cluttered, and often the movements of the characters don't seem sympathetically choreographed, so that the visual balance across the stage (or screen) doesn't seem right. And I can't break free of my usual problem with updated productions - what I see (modern) continually conflicts with what I hear (late C18th).

This doesn't mean I think it doesn't deserve its place in the essentials list (I'm not competent to assess that, and your powerful recommendation, Alma, demonstrates that I'm missing a great deal), but I'd want to attach a big 'Try before you buy' sticker to the box.

Petibon on headphones and air guitar (See the last 60 seconds or so)

'Soave sia il vento'


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I have ordered this one, but it is *damn expensive! $51* on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.


    

Are you serious, that price is just obscence.......


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Despite Alma's love of new "modern" Cosi with Persson......I will believe it when I see it

Malfitano's Tosca appears in new Domingo 3 opera boxset volume 1

Yes Netrebko is best Mimi I have seen (7-8 seen), blu ray plus 2.35:1 super widescreen, yesssssss


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

DarkAngel said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks DA, those are pretty much the others I would have posted if I'd had space. My Magic Flute of prefernce would be this, but just by a whisker:












DarkAngel said:


> Malfitano's Tosca appears in new Domingo 3 opera boxset volume 1


I reckon it's Raimondi's Tosca.
Just jokes, all three principals are magnificent in this.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Let throw in #7
My current fav Traviata on blu ray.......*Fleming and Villazon*

I had low expectations for this but was extremely impressed with Fleming's multi dimensional mature Violetta (cougar) very believeable and the rich opulent stage set rivals Stratas MET Zeffirelli production just beautiful perfectly capturing the Paris elite party scence of the time. Villazon although not a fav male singer is sincere and has played this role successfully many times before....


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> I've been looking at some more youtube samples and - while we've acknowledged the limitations of youtube - I think this may be one of those 'love it or hate it' productions. For example, I watched Patricia Petibon performing with her personal stereo, and playing air guitar .... oh gosh, I seriously couldn't live with that. As you know I think at her best, she's wonderful, but she can also be, shall we say, 'Petibonesque-_extreme_' - and she's that, here. Some may love it, but it's a big switch-off for me. So, already worried, I turned to what for me is the highpoint of the opera, 'Soave sia il vento', and I'm really sorry to say it, but it didn't do it for me.
> 
> Part of the problem is that I don't like the stage set. It seems dark and gloomy and sometimes cluttered, and often the movements of the characters don't seem sympathetically choreographed, so that the visual balance across the stage (or screen) doesn't seem right. And I can't break free of my usual problem with updated productions - what I see (modern) continually conflicts with what I hear (late C18th).
> 
> ...


Well, it doesn't look like you'll like it even on blu-ray, and that's fine, different strokes for different folks. I should say, though, that the image in this blu-ray disc is not dark. I think this darkness you see on YouTube is a feature of the quality of the capture of the image by the user who uploaded it. Here at home on my 1080p TV the image is very luminous. Also, the image on YouTube is compressed horizontaly. Again, on my TV the image stretches correctly to 16:9 format and the stage doesn't seem cluttered.

I found Patricia totally hilarious, and she did convey the working-classe half-vulgar woman interested in popular pursuits (like playing air guitar) and fulfilling sex as opposed to the rarified concerns of the the two upper class girls - but then, I do acknowledge that she is Petibonesque, the difference is, I like Petibonesque things, I'm sort of in love with Patricia Petibon (Uhoh, I hope Anna Netrebko is not reading this).


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel;[IMG said:


> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kUgSvyrBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/IMG]
> Despite Alma's love of new "modern" Cosi with Persson......I will believe it when I see it
> 
> Yes Netrebko is best Mimi I have seen (7-8 seen), blu ray plus 2.35:1 super widescreen, yesssssss


Well, fine, I won't give you a hard time. I couldn't do this to someone who is acknowledging my Anna as the best Mimi ever.:tiphat:


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> I found Patricia totally hilarious, and she did convey the working-classe half-vulgar woman interested in popular pursuits (like playing air guitar) and fulfilling sex as opposed to the rarified concerns of the the two upper class girls - but then, I do acknowledge that she is Petibonesque, the difference is, I like Petibonesque things, I'm sort of in love with Patricia Petibon (Uhoh, I hope Anna Netrebko is not reading this).


Do you know her album _French Touch_? On that single album the whole range of Petibonism is present, from the sublime to the excruciating. There's a roughly-defined line (which will be in a different place for each of us), and when she goes over it, I switch from delight to dismay. That's my problem with her Despina here. For those who find it funny and delightful, it will be _really_ funny and delightful. If (like me) you don't, it's squirm time. Humour is always a very personal thing, and nowhere more so than in opera.

I suppose it's a question of how much Petibonism one can take! (We could set up a contest!! With a health warning!!) This is what I mean about the love/hate potential of this production.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I have ordered this one, *but it is damn expensive! $51 on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it*. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.


UK vendor MDT has it for $32, shipping cost very reasonable, I use them 
MDT

If you cannot cancel current Amazon USA order don't open the wrapper and you can return for full refund, you must pay return shipping ( @$2 )


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> UK vendor MDT has it for $32, shipping cost very reasonable, I use them
> MDT
> 
> If you cannot cancel current Amazon USA order don't open the wrapper and you can return for full refund, you must pay return shipping ( @$2 )


I don't know, I'm still traumatized with the fact that the Barenboim Ring I ordered from Europe was billed to me but never delivered. Have you always had good experiences with this MDT? I also worry about sending my credit card information overseas. Do they accept Pay Pal?


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I don't know, I'm still traumatized with the fact that the Barenboim Ring I ordered from Europe was billed to me but never delivered. Have you always had good experiences with this MDT? I also worry about sending my credit card information overseas. Do they accept Pay Pal?


I have placed 15+ orders with MDT, in about 3 business days they will ship and notify you by email, only takes about 1 week from there (airmail) to delivery in USA

No paypal........

Didn't Amazon UK give you tracking number?
You probably should have paid a little extra for the "expedited" shipping for the Ring


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> I have placed 15+ orders with MDT, in about 3 business days they will ship and notify you by email, only takes about 1 week from there (airmail) to delivery in USA
> 
> No paypal........
> 
> ...


No, there is no tracking number, they say it's because there is no integration between the two postal services. They say they won't do anything until November 4. The delivery range has expired on October 15th. Still, they won't act until three weeks after it. I'm really irritated.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Have you always had good experiences with this MDT? I also worry about sending my credit card information overseas.


I use MDT a great deal, and I use my credit card. They've been superbly efficient and have always communicated well whenever necessary (eg if there's a delay in getting stock). I can't dredge up even a minor grumble about them.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I also worry about sending my credit card information overseas.


That's all I do. No problems so far.

One thing I ordered from giftdvds (Amazon UK marketplace) never showed up and the seller refunded me, including postage, immediately.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

*Attention, attention, important disclosure!!!*

OK, folks, I think I'm changing my mind about the Salzburg _Così fan Tutte._

How does one defend something with such passion, then does an about face?

Sparkled by the controversy here, I watched it again in its entirety.

I confess I didn't like it as much the second time (probably because the effect of surprise was lost), and especially, I changed my mind about the acting. Act II has a lot of overacting, and yes, the staging does get more somber.

So, Act I is still sparkling and luminous, funny, with these gorgeous-looking women. But I'm less certain about the work as whole now, and my wild statement that this is the new Così standard may have to be taken with a grain of salt, with the realization that the Glyndebourne Così remains a strong contender.

There, I said it.

:lol: (I'm laughing at myself)


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> OK, folks, I think I'm changing my mind about the Salzburg _Così fan Tutte._
> 
> How does one defend something with such passion, then does an about face?
> 
> ...


You are allowed to change your mind after further reflection 
We still will listen to you, really......heh heh

What will you say when you see Miah Persson & Danielle DeNiese in new fall MET Cosi,
that may truely be the reference especially with William Christie conductor

Cosi


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> You are allowed to change your mind after further reflection
> We still will listen to you, really......heh heh
> 
> What will you say when you see Miah Persson & Danielle DeNiese in new fall MET Cosi,
> ...


And Isabel Leonard will be there too... three gorgeous women. I may very well have to make a second trip to NYC since this one is not on Met in HD. (we don't have an icon for drooling)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> I have ordered this one, but it is damn expensive! $51 on Amazon.com and no other vendor had it. Amazon had just one copy so I ended up impusively buying it although this is a DVD, but priced like a blu-ray! I hope I won't regret it.
> 
> I have also ordered the Admeto recommended by Natalie.
> 
> What are the three or four others you love just as much?


Damn, did I really pay $51 for this? I'm finding it incredibly boring!
I know that others here went crazy about it.
What's wrong with me today?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> OK, folks, I think I'm changing my mind about the Salzburg _Così fan Tutte._
> 
> How does one defend something with such passion, then does an about face?


Ruskin once said that he never felt he'd done justice to anything until he'd contradicted himself at least three times about it.

My take on it is that our experience of art is a dynamic thing. Not only do we change so much from day to day, there's also that thing called 'the hermeneutic circle' - you know, where you can never re-experience the first reading of a book, because when you read it a second time, you're unavoidably influenced by what happened during the first reading. So your _first_ experience of the Saltzburg _Cosi_ was a joyfully positive experience but, for whatever reason, it wasn't repeatable. It still really happened though.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

DarkAngel said:


> What will you say when you see Miah Persson & Danielle DeNiese in new fall MET Cosi,
> that may truely be the reference especially with William Christie conductor
> 
> Cosi


You know, when I was in NYC last week I did look into this. There were still seats available. But they were very expensive seats (between $315 and $420), and I was still willing to do it, then I looked for flights on kayak.com, got some outrageous prices for what I wanted to do (a direct flight before the show and a direct flight back home after the show), had to think of the taxi cab back and forth from the airport, meals... I ended up with such an astronomic figure that I thought that not even Miah, Danielle, Isabel, and Christie together would justify the expense. I mean, they would if I were rich enough but unfortunately it's not the case, so, I'll have to cross my fingers and hope for a blu-ray release. The fact that they're not showing it on Met in HD doesn't bode well for the odds of this production being released on video, though. Such a shame! I guess they thought that there are too many Cosìs out there already, with mostly the same people, and one more wouldn't sell as well.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Ruskin once said that he never felt he'd done justice to anything until he'd contradicted himself at least three times about it.
> 
> My take on it is that our experience of art is a dynamic thing. Not only do we change so much from day to day, there's also that thing called 'the hermeneutic circle' - you know, where you can never re-experience the first reading of a book, because when you read it a second time, you're unavoidably influenced by what happened during the first reading. So your _first_ experience of the Saltzburg _Cosi_ was a joyfully positive experience but, for whatever reason, it wasn't repeatable. It still really happened though.


Definitely. Like I said, the effect of surprise was obviously lost the second time, and then I paid more attention to the shortcomings. And also, the Glyndebourne Così was farther away in my mind, and ever since I have peaked at it for a few scenes (I do own both productions) and was reminded of that gorgeous blue sky and excellent singing, nice costumes, etc. It does remain a top contender. Maybe what I should do is watch the first act of the Salzburg production then the second act of the Glyndebourne production... get the best of both worlds...


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Elgarian said:


>


For what it's worth, I second this most enthusiastically, such a labor of love. Just watching Haugland's Ochs during the tenor's aria is worth at least twice the price of this.

(Rosenkavalier is my favorite opera, at the moment at least.)


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Gualtier Malde said:


> For what it's worth, I second this most enthusiastically, such a labor of love. Just watching Haugland's Ochs during the tenor's aria is worth at least twice the price of this.
> 
> (Rosenkavalier is my favorite opera, at the moment at least.)


People say that this is the definitive Rosenkavalier version:










I own it but I haven't seen it yet (it's been sitting on my unwatched pile).

Do you know it? If you do, how do you compare this one with the one you quoted?


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> People say that this is the definitive Rosenkavalier version:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I don't, I just knew of its existence; in fact, I am planning to add it to my collection some day, but not very soon, I'm just starting out and for me, the Covent Garden production is already as perfect as anything can be in this world.

Generally speaking, I won't comment much on finer points of music/singing here, I have no expertise in these areas and I'm way out of my comfort zone. Also, I've spent the first half of my life opera-going life at provincial theaters and it's only a small exaggeration to say that as long as I can hear the singers and the high voices aren't shrill, I'm usually a happy customer. It won't come as a surprise then that to me, almost everyone on DVD sounds just fabulous (the one exception perhaps being von Otter's whispered Carmen in Glyndebourne).


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Gualtier Malde said:


> No, I don't, I just knew of its existence; in fact, I am planning to add it to my collection some day, but not very soon, I'm just starting out and for me, the Covent Garden production is already as perfect as anything can be in this world.


You know that it is included in this box set  for a very reasonable price, along with another Rosenkavalier, Fledermaus and some concerts?












Gualtier Malde said:


> Generally speaking, I won't comment much on finer points of music/singing here, I have no expertise in these areas and I'm way out of my comfort zone. Also, I've spent the first half of my life opera-going life at provincial theaters and it's only a small exaggeration to say that as long as I can hear the singers and the high voices aren't shrill, I'm usually a happy customer. It won't come as a surprise then that to me, almost everyone on DVD sounds just fabulous *(the one exception perhaps being von Otter's whispered Carmen in Glyndebourne). *


Wow that Carmen was a terrible disappointment for me too - all that embarrassing crotch grabbing, and the singing not too hot either.


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

Just sayin'


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I love opera on DVD for two reasons:

I live in a very cold country
The opera in Montreal really sucks.

I have a quite big collection of opera DVDs. Of course I have almost all Wagner. All Rimsky-Korsakov that was published, Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky...A lot of Rossini and some Massenet...

www.pages.videotron.com/svp is my site...

Martin Pitchon


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I have a quite big collection of opera DVDs. Of course I have almost all Wagner. All Rimsky-Korsakov that was published, Rachmaninov, Tchaikovsky...A lot of Rossini and some Massenet...
> 
> www.pages.videotron.com/svp is my site...
> 
> Martin Pitchon


Which would be the six that you would part with last?


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Wow that Carmen was a terrible disappointment for me too - all that embarrassing crotch grabbing, and the singing not too hot either.


Glad to hear you feel that way, too (it's not just me getting too old). For me, it still wasn't a total disaster; I'm really easy to satisfy. But of course the story also doesn't work too well if Carmen is portrayed as a mentally unstable *****; you just feel relief when she's finally been disposed of.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

mistake:

my site is on pages.videotron.com/svp

No www please

or

http://pages.videotron.com/svp/

the same.


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