# Can a name make or break a piece?



## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

How much can a name matter in how a piece is viewed and performed?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

In Classical I don't think it matters much since works are typically named after the form of piece it is, like Sonata or Symphony. But, I think name can influence how we feel about it, but I don't think it's strong enough to make or break our enjoyment of it. We would just say, that's a poor name.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

or you talking "title of piece" or "name of composers"?

Regardless, my take: it does not influence me one iota.


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## soni (Jul 3, 2018)

Vasks said:


> or you talking "title of piece" or "name of composers"?
> 
> Regardless, my take it does not influence me one iota.


This is what I thought until I was influenced by the names of some pieces 
I think it's hard to know the answer to this if everything is just titled "Sonata" or "Orchestral Variations".


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

soni said:


> This is what I thought until I was influenced by the names of some pieces
> I think it's hard to know the answer to this if everything is just titled "Sonata" or "Orchestral Variations".


Because they are very common names in music.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I wonder if Penderecki's famous piece for 52 strings would be as popular had it simply been called 8'37" (referring to its time length) or Etude for Strings (referring to its nature). The name _Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima_ proves rather intriguing and inviting, and certainly describes the harsh sound of a piece that could be logically discussed in terms like "the ugliness of the sounds Penderecki produces reflects the ugliness of the situation brought on by nuclear war" and such stuff. I agree with such arguments even though I'm aware that Penderecki had written the work prior to naming it after the victims of Hiroshima.

John Cage, on the other hand, is most famous for a work named for its duration: 4'33". Would this be even more popular if titled "Ode to Silence" or maybe "Nocturne on an Unwritten Melody"?

Gershwin's _Rhapsody in Blue_ has a wonderful ring to it, moreso than does a title like "Rhapsody for Piano and Jazz Orchestra".

Gorecki's _Symphony of Sorrowful Songs_ provides that wonderful work with a wonderful romantic title. I'm pleased he did not allow it to stand as simply Symphony No. 3. Gorecki's Symphony No. 1 is titled "1959" and his Symphony No. 2 "Copernican"; though meaningful, neither title helps the music, in my opinion. And the Symphony No. 4 has the title "Tansman Episodes", which I find fascinating (as I remain a fan of the music of Alexandre Tansman), yet also find that same symphony 4 to be probably the single worst piece of "classical" music I've ever heard -- unbelievably bad. I almost feel glad that poor A. Tansman is dead and never lived to hear this apparent homage to his music.

So, whether or not names matter I can't say. But I am glad that someone stuck the title "Moonlight Sonata" onto Beethoven's otherwise named Sonata No. 14 In C-Sharp Minor, Op. 27, No. 2. I'd probably love the music as much with that latter title, but I so love moreso saying "Moonlight Sonata". Call me a romantic at heart.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

With composers who wrote a lot of music in a given form - symphonies, sonatas etc. - I might often have gone for the named pieces first but I usually move beyond those. I guess that pieces getting names is a sign that those pieces stand out in some way.


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## soni (Jul 3, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> Because they are very common names in music.


Yes this is what I mean, maybe my post was not worded so clearly


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

The named Haydn symphonies are more popular than the unnamed ones, though they're not necessarily better pieces.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

1996D said:


> How much can a name matter in how a piece is viewed and performed?


It's not clear if you mean the name of the composer or the title of the piece.
If you mean the latter, are you worried about the title of your soon-to-be-released and long-awaited magnum opus, the one that will put all other works into the shade?
If that is the case, would you like us to make suggestions?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

People will always be attracted by a name for a work, especially if it's mysterious or quirky in some way. For example I always wanted to hear Adams' Short Ride in a Fast Machine just because it sounded interesting. Would I have been as eager if it had the title 'Fanfare for Orchestra' ? It's also often good to have a title as it can make pieces more memorable to you and easier to refer to. It's not necessary but I do like a name. A name can also tell you so much about a piece and tempt you to listen.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

Merl said:


> People will always be attracted by a name for a work, especially if it's mysterious or quirky in some way. For example I always wanted to hear Adams' Short Ride in a Fast Machine just because it sounded interesting. Would I have been as eager if it had the title 'Fanfare for Orchestra' ? It's also often good to have a title as it can make pieces more memorable to you and easier to refer to. It's not necessary but I do like a name. A name can also tell you so much about a piece and tempt you to listen.


Very true. When I hear people write or talk about "the Eroica" I know immediately what they're referring to. On the other hand, it takes me a second or two longer to recall "Beethoven's Symphony N° 3".


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Otoh, it's good for a composer to include "Fanfare for Orchestra" as a backup name so that it can be included in TC's eventual list of the greatest fanfares.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

Blancrocher said:


> Otoh, it's good for a composer to include "Fanfare for Orchestra" as a backup name so that it can *be included in TC's eventual list* of the greatest fanfares.


To which will soon be added -not in the fanfare section - works composed via direct dictation from God, which seems to be the case for 1996D's upcoming compositional _revelation_. I really can't wait.


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## ollie gill (Feb 2, 2020)

SONNET CLV said:


> So, whether or not names matter I can't say. But I am glad that someone stuck the title "Moonlight Sonata" onto Beethoven's otherwise named Sonata No. 14 In C-Sharp Minor, Op. 27, No. 2. I'd probably love the music as much with that latter title, but I so love moreso saying "Moonlight Sonata". Call me a romantic at heart.


my thinking exactly.
the names dont really affect the music but its always nice if the title adds something to it.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

There are a few examples of savvy composers actively recognizing the power of names to sell. Just think of Ravel's "Pavane for a Dead Princess" and the extramusical emotions it seems to stir up within us, even though he wrote it for no such occasion and simply as a matter of imagination! Of course, nicknames not sanctioned by the composer are a different story. What if Beethoven's Moonlight, Appassionata, Serioso, etc. were not named such? Would we still have such strong emotional reactions to them?


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## AeolianStrains (Apr 4, 2018)

David Phillips said:


> The named Haydn symphonies are more popular than the unnamed ones, though they're not necessarily better pieces.


I find that overall for many unnamed Mozart and Haydn pieces they really do deserve a name. Mozart Symphony 25 for example. Still insane that this was written by a 17 year old.


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> There are a few examples of savvy composers actively recognizing the power of names to sell. Just think of Ravel's "Pavane for a Dead Princess" and the extramusical emotions it seems to stir up within us, even though he wrote it for no such occasion and simply as a matter of imagination! Of course, nicknames not sanctioned by the composer are a different story. What if Beethoven's Moonlight, Appassionata, Serioso, etc. were not named such? Would we still have such strong emotional reactions to them?


Yeah, but names can also detract from a piece. Mahler's 8th loses a lot of its appeal by its acquired name 'Symphony of a Thousand' as it's so far from what the meaning of the piece is, and makes it all about excess and vanity instead. It's to this day not viewed as it should be.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

1996D said:


> Yeah, but names can also detract from a piece. Mahler's 8th loses a lot of its appeal by its acquired name 'Symphony of a Thousand' as it's so far from what the meaning of the piece is, and makes it all about excess and vanity instead. It's to this day not viewed as it should be.


Yeah. So, babes, what's the title of your earth-shattering, ground-breaking new work that you've been alluding to for the last few months? When are we going to hear it? And what will its title be?
Can I propose one even before my eardrums have had the opportunity to thrum to it?


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

TalkingHead said:


> Yeah. So, babes, what's the title of your earth-shattering, ground-breaking new work that you've been alluding to for the last few months? When are we going to hear it? And what will its title be?
> Can I propose one even before my eardrums have had the opportunity to thrum to it?


Babes... You're a woman? Do we actually have any women here, I always thought this was an 100% male forum.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

1996D said:


> Babes... You're a woman? Do we actually have any women here, I always thought this was an 100% male forum.


No, honey-bunch, I thought _you_ might be one, not that it matters. I asked you 4 questions (see above); you have not given satisfactory replies. Please be a good _mensch_ and do so. In the meantime, have you finished the scoring of your magnum opus? You know how impatient I am to hear it after all the marketing you've given it.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

The Adams title is rather mundane, much like the music. I enjoy Threnody, but would not use adjectives such as ugly. It sounds very exciting and pleasing to my ears. The opening is a bit jarring but other than that I find it very attractive.


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

TalkingHead said:


> No, honey-bunch, I thought _you_ might be one, not that it matters. I asked you 4 questions (see above); you have not given satisfactory replies. Please be a good _mensch_ and do so. In the meantime, have you finished the scoring of your magnum opus? You know how impatient I am to hear it after all the marketing you've given it.


All jokes aside, you're welcome to suggest any names for a shorter piece I might release before; it's really optimistic and accessible; especially made to appeal to a large audience. The larger work still needs revision but it already has a name.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

starthrower said:


> The Adams title is rather mundane, much like the music. I enjoy Threnody, but would not use adjectives such as ugly. It sounds very exciting and pleasing to my ears. The opening is a bit jarring but other than that I find it very attractive.


Of course, I refer to the term "ugly" in art in a complimentary way. Artistic ugliness is beautiful, too. I often use the visual example of the Predator in the Arnold Schwarzenegger films. It's an ugly … uh, what is the term Schwarzenegger uses … uh.... In any case, it took a creative artist, skill and intellect, to create the image, which is ugly but possesses artistic beauty. It's a highly crafted artifact.

I see Penderecki's _Threnody_ music in the same way. It is skillfully produced "ugliness" that reflects the ugliness of nuclear war. That works for me. Penderecki is highly skilled and has produced a variety of musical textures and palates, much of it "beautiful" in a more traditional sense. He can, when he wants to, create a Tchaikovsky-like melody, just as the fellow who designed the Predator's features could draw the next loveable Disney princess that my granddaughter would aspire to be. Such is the work of the artist.

The Spanish master Goya has given us some rather horrid pictures -- ones viewers may easily describe as "ugly". They are often meant to make a political or social point.





















But he also gave us this:









And, starthrower … I know you know all of this. The Penderecki _Threnody_ is "very attractive." Thank you for confirming my point.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I think that a lot of musical titles are mere marketing tools. There may be no fault in that. If "Moonlight Sonata" helped sell copies of sheet music from which Beethoven profited, well and fine. I wonder if he himself could have come up with an even _better_ title for the work.

It's less satisfying to me that a Mozart concerto that I love deeply is today better known as the Elvira Madigan Concerto. Poor Mozart made no profit from this abhorrence. (And don't even get me started about those who think the music was written by one named Elvira Madigan! That will make me mad again!)

Worse, though, to me, is the notion that a remarkable overture by a most remarkable composer is today known almost solely as "The Lone Ranger's Theme". That brings tears to my eyes.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

1996D said:


> All jokes aside, you're welcome to suggest any names for a shorter piece I might release before; it's really optimistic and accessible; especially made to appeal to a large audience. The larger work still needs revision but it already has a name.


I know I shouldn't indulge you but our interactions amuse me.
I'd love to suggest a title for this shorter piece you refer to; go on, give us a snippet to whet my appetite.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I've never been particularly tempted to sample Gustave Fraunhauser's Symphony No. 4,"Pile of Crap."


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2020)

MarkW said:


> I've never been particularly tempted to sample Gustave Fraunhauser's Symphony No. 4,"Pile of Crap."


Hah! Put that title into Latin and it'll be fine!


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

MarkW said:


> I've never been particularly tempted to sample Gustave Fraunhauser's Symphony No. 4,"Pile of Crap."


or Frans Gustavenhauser's Piano Concerto #2 "I Got Nothing"


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm very fond of Part's Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten. Would I enjoy its layering of sound as much if it were entitled, for example, Extract no.1 or Desktop? Probably.
I don't understand why RVW's Flos Campi is thus titled, but I love it none the less.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

AeolianStrains said:


> I find that overall for many unnamed Mozart and Haydn pieces they really do deserve a name. Mozart Symphony 25 for example. Still insane that this was written by a 17 year old.


It's interesting that in catholic music, lots of Mozart's and Haydn's do have 'unique names', whereas Schubert's and Beethoven's generally don't. ("Missa solemnis" just means a mass that uses the Latin text more extensively and are more festively scored, as opposed to the more modest and practical "Missa brevis", so it doesn't count as a 'unique name'). Perhaps because Mozart and Haydn's were mostly written for actual regular services (as they were employed under the clergy).
The symphony is fine, but I feel it receives too much attention compared to his other works of the same period. I consider another work Mozart wrote at 17, _Missa in honorem Sanctissimae Trinitatis K167_, a turning point his maturity, (since he started producing vocal masterpieces the next year, - K192, K193, K194, K195, - although I do enjoy his earlier works like K65, K85) sometime ago I mentioned the various skills he incorporated in the work.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

I like the title of this:






"The Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio in G major, Op. 129, is a piano rondo by Ludwig van Beethoven. It is better known by the title Rage Over a Lost Penny, Vented in a Caprice (from German: Die Wut über den verlorenen Groschen, ausgetobt in einer Caprice). This title appears on the autograph manuscript, but not in Beethoven's hand, and has been attributed to his friend Anton Schindler. It is a favourite with audiences and is frequently performed as a show piece. Despite the late opus number, the work is now dated between 1795 and 1798. Beethoven left the piece unpublished and incomplete; it was published in 1828 by Anton Diabelli, who obscured the fact that it had been left unfinished. The manuscript disappeared for many years and was considered lost until it turned up in the United States just after World War II. From the original manuscript, musicologist Erich Hertzmann prepared a new edition, published in 1949.

The performance time runs between five and six minutes; the tempo of the piece is Allegro vivace (132--160 quarter notes a minute). The indication alla ingharese is of interest, as no such word as "ingharese" exists in standard Italian. To people of Beethoven's day, "gypsy music" and "Hungarian music" were synonymous terms. Beethoven seems to have conflated alla zingarese (in the gypsy style) and all'ongarese (in the Hungarian style) to come up with a unique term alla ingharese. Robert Schumann wrote of the work that "it would be difficult to find anything merrier than this whim... It is the most amiable, harmless anger, similar to that felt when one cannot pull a shoe from off the foot", citing the work as an instance of Beethoven's earthliness against those fixated upon a transcendental image of the composer."

Marked Allegro vivace and in 2/4, the Rondo a capriccio combines a familiar rondo scheme with Beethoven's singular variation technique. The Rondo theme itself has two parts, each consisting of an eight-measure antecedent-consequent phrase. The statements of this darting, quicksilver theme are separated by episodes that are just as frenetic. In one of the Rondo's most distinct features, each return of the main theme is different from its initial presentation. Such alterations range from graceful ornamentation of the melodic line to changes of mode from major to minor. During one statement, the tune appears in the left hand, while in the lengthy coda, Beethoven's treatment of the material becomes conspicuously developmental. It is possibly this departure from a more conventional conception of the rondo that led Beethoven to use the expression "quasi un capriccio" (like a fantasy).


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

TalkingHead said:


> To which will soon be added -not in the fanfare section - works composed via direct dictation from God, which seems to be the case for 1996D's upcoming compositional _revelation_. I really can't wait.


I think I have an explanation that explains the behavior....and this is based on my own experience. You see, we have an unconscious mind. Studies have proven that the mind can work on problems in the background so to speak. So for someone who thinks in music, the mind continues to work on that piece while the composer is doing other things. When the conscious mind becomes aware of that work (inspiration), the first thing one thinks about (always egocentrically of course since we are all stars in our own movies) is, "Wait, this is over my head. I shouldn't have been able to write this!!! There must be a bigger force working through me - 'cause I'm so special." I've seen this derail young comp students. In my case, some David Hume corrected this fallacious thinking, but some folks live on "inspiration" their whole lives.

Now, there are inherit problems with this "compositional method." While it's true the unconscious mind can find the solution to a musicial problem the conscious mind is unaware of, this does not produce music over and above the composers abilities. It just seems that way to those whose world views support being "I'm just the conduit through which the music flows." It also can produce, to quote Bill Bryson speaking of the astronomer Edwin Hubble, "an ego the size of a small schools bus."

Now, if I am wrong in my selective observations here I cannot be proven wrong with mere rhetoric. The old adage holds true - there's proof in the pudding. And so far all I've "heard" is a reprise of _4'33"_. My headphones remain at the ready.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm very fond of Part's Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten. Would I enjoy its layering of sound as much if it were entitled, for example, Extract no.1 or Desktop? Probably.
> I don't understand why RVW's Flos Campi is thus titled, but I love it none the less.


I like it, too. But with music so spare and sparse the name makes it. If it was called Desktop then I suspect it would not be nearly so widely known.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

1996D said:


> Do we actually have any women here, I always thought this was an 100% male forum.


In fact you know very well that there are women members. In threads where you posted that women have no business conducting orchestras (or some such argument) many women members (and many men) responded angrily to you. Perhaps you have pushed that embarrassing moment to the back of your mind?


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Room2201974 said:


> I think I have an explanation that explains the behavior....and this is based on my own experience. You see, we have an unconscious mind. Studies have proven that the mind can work on problems in the background so to speak. So for someone who thinks in music, the mind continues to work on that piece while the composer is doing other things. When the conscious mind becomes aware of that work (inspiration), the first thing one thinks about (always egocentrically of course since we are all stars in our own movies) is, "Wait, this is over my head. I shouldn't have been able to write this!!! There must be a bigger force working through me - 'cause I'm so special." I've seen this derail young comp students. In my case, some David Hume corrected this fallacious thinking, but some folks live on "inspiration" their whole lives.
> 
> Now, there are inherit problems with this "compositional method." While it's true the unconscious mind can find the solution to a musicial problem the conscious mind is unaware of, this does not produce music over and above the composers abilities. It just seems that way to those whose world views support being "I'm just the conduit through which the music flows." It also can produce, to quote Bill Bryson speaking of the astronomer Edwin Hubble, "an ego the size of a small schools bus."
> 
> Now, if I am wrong in my selective observations here I cannot be proven wrong with mere rhetoric. The old adage holds true - *there's proof in the pudding.* And so far all I've "heard" is a reprise of _4'33"_. My headphones remain at the ready.


In the pudding? The adage is: The proof of the pudding is in the eating.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

EdwardBast said:


> In the pudding? The adage is: The proof of the pudding is in the eating.


Ah, well in that case, my "proof" shall be in the listening, which I eagerly await.


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## 1996D (Dec 18, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> In fact you know very well that there are women members. In threads where you posted that women have no business conducting orchestras (or some such argument) many women members (and many men) responded angrily to you. Perhaps you have pushed that embarrassing moment to the back of your mind?


There is no way to really know, there are probably none. For the record I don't feel it's embarrassing at all, I've since understood the why and I'm fine with it - it's just something that needed clarifying.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

1996D said:


> *There is no way to really know*, there are probably none. For the record I don't feel it's embarrassing at all, I've since understood the why and I'm fine with it - it's just something that needed clarifying.


No way known to you.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

SONNET CLV said:


> Of course, I refer to the term "ugly" in art in a complimentary way. Artistic ugliness is beautiful, too. I often use the visual example of the Predator in the Arnold Schwarzenegger films. It's an ugly … uh, what is the term Schwarzenegger uses … uh.... In any case, it took a creative artist, skill and intellect, to create the image, which is ugly but possesses artistic beauty. It's a highly crafted artifact.
> 
> I see Penderecki's _Threnody_ music in the same way. It is skillfully produced "ugliness" that reflects the ugliness of nuclear war. That works for me. Penderecki is highly skilled and has produced a variety of musical textures and palates, much of it "beautiful" in a more traditional sense. He can, when he wants to, create a Tchaikovsky-like melody, just as the fellow who designed the Predator's features could draw the next loveable Disney princess that my granddaughter would aspire to be. Such is the work of the artist.
> 
> ...


Polymorphia is just as exciting, and an amazing feat of orchestration. It's very interesting to watch it performed and observe all of the musical techniques employed to bring this score to life.


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## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

1996D said:


> How much can a name matter in how a piece is viewed and performed?


I'm a big fan of Francisco Lopez. I think my favourite piece of his at the moment is Untitled#321 but I also love Untitled#244. Untitled#218 is nice too, and it's on his Kairos release which has other works on it (that are titled other things) also worth checking out. The collection Untitled#355 to Untitled#359 is probably where I would recommend starting with Lopez, however, as they are shorter pieces and have a faster pace than some of his other works. One piece of his which I don't like anywhere near as much is Untitled#220; it's a snoozefest-quite literally!

I think the answer to the thread question, based on how much I love Lopez's work (despite his lack of titles), is that titles don't tend to have much of an impact in my enjoyment of a piece of music if the composer didn't give it a title of any significance.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Kloppweiser's Symphny No. 4 _Great Mountain of Steaming Dung_ obviously owes its success to its nickname.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

KenOC said:


> Kloppweiser's Symphny No. 4 _Great Mountain of Steaming Dung_ obviously owes its success to its nickname.


The Fourth isn't a patch on his Turd Symphony.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> What if Beethoven's Moonlight, Appassionata, Serioso, etc. were not named such? Would we still have such strong emotional reactions to them?


I think I would, on the basis that they are such remarkable works. Conversely, some of his more conservative sonatas might get a bit more attention than they otherwise would _because_ they have nicknames - I'm thinking of works like the "Sonata Pastorale" and "The Hunt" here.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> The Fourth isn't a patch on his Turd Symphony.


As far as I recall his first symphony with the nickname "The Emperors Stool" caused a hoo-ha when it was premiered.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Pat Fairlea said:


> I'm very fond of Part's Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten. Would I enjoy its layering of sound as much if it were entitled, for example, Extract no.1 or Desktop? Probably.
> I don't understand why RVW's Flos Campi is thus titled, but I love it none the less.


The work is a memorial piece. You're supposed to hear it with its subject in mind. It's designed for grief and self-laceration, not enjoyment, for gods' sake. Get with the program. 

… and while I'm at it, some pieces particularly appeal to Kendall Walton's view that works of art are props in games of make believe. Like The Swan of Tuonela or Tapiola. You are supposed to be in the watery underworld or the ancient boreal forest. Those are the games.

In examples like these the title is an essential and intentional element of the work. Any element can make or break - or, at least, enhance or diminish.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

A title such as 'Cum On Feel The Noise' might work for an avant-garde work. Something like it worked for Slade back in the day:


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

I suspect Mozart's 21st piano concerto would just be another Mozart piano concerto if not for the mediocre 1967 art house movie:



On the other hand, I don't think the nickname "Fart" much helped Haydn's 93rd symphony.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

The names and nicknames definitely make a difference for marketing, but maybe not as much for how well we enjoy the music after lots of familiarity with it.


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## Owen David (May 15, 2020)

Are you sure? I think John Ogden would have been even more successful with a properly Slavic name... 

No one's called "Reg" or "Duane" in classical music...

Just as in all fields of cultural endeavour there are conventions and there are expectations. If I was the most brilliant pianist in the world but my name was John Smith, I would definitely change my name.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

David Phillips said:


> The named Haydn symphonies are more popular than the unnamed ones, though they're not necessarily better pieces.


#88 is one of the best.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I would have named Tchaikovsky Symphony 5 as the "Pirate Symphony" because of its first movement.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Of course, we have Beethoven - Sym #3 "Erotica"

And the well-known "Enema" Variations, by Elgar...

There is Haydn Sym #93 "The Flatulent"

And, the very relaxed, laid-back Franz Liszt composing his famous tone poem:
"Les Quaaludes"


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The book "Freakonomics" studied among other things whether or not a person's name could contribute to their ultimate success or failure in life. They concluded it could not, that their actions did so -- regardless of whether or not they were impacted by having the name they were given.

I think that's probably true with music too. It's the music that imprints on the brain, not the name.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

I usually say something along the lines of a name that is familiar and has favorable associations gets the assumption of being worth trying, but ultimately the work has to prove itself to me on its own. (There is also something of the same effect in a negative sense.)


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

Owen David said:


> Are you sure? I think John Ogden would have been even more successful with a properly Slavic name...
> 
> No one's called "Reg" or "Duane" in classical music...
> 
> Just as in all fields of cultural endeavour there are conventions and there are expectations. If I was the most brilliant pianist in the world but my name was John Smith, I would definitely change my name.


German opera tenor, Reiner Goldberg?

Conductor of Charlotte Symphony (U.S.), Christof Perick, after his U.S. agent suggest a surname change from "Prick".


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## MrMeatScience (Feb 15, 2015)

In contemporary avant-garde music I tend to strongly dislike the titles of "named" compositions, but it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the music too much. Just because you put some ellipses on both sides and ignore capitalization rules doesn't make your title imaginative or helpful.


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