# Beethoven's Triple concerto/Choral Fantasia



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Greetings:
I am new to this group and started collecting cd's on classical music over 30 years ago. I have limited knowledge of classical music/music/history except what I acquired over time. All of my purchases were at music stores but I did not buy heavily but bought deals/close outs. However, over the years I am getting really good cds donated to thrift stores, libraries, etc. 

I have been looking at this site and reading the list recommendations. I am somewhat not clear on how the rankings are done but will ask questions a little at a time. But one thing I was (a little) surprised at was I could not find Beethoven's Triple concerto or Choral Fantasia in any list. I would think these two works would show up against some of other works by other composers. 

I look forward to posting from time to time on various aspects of CM.

Thanks


----------



## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Welcome!

The recommended lists - rankings included - were here well before I joined this illustrious site, so I have to assume they were chosen by people chipping in with their opinion whenever they could. We'd all have different lists ourselves, but actually I find most of them hard to aggressively disagree with! I have used them to reassess what I may think of a work that's there on the list and I haven't really considered too closely before. 

As far as I am concerned, the Triple Concerto is good, not great. If you think the Choral Fantasia is a great work, you and me both! But we'll find ourselves in a minority here, no doubt. In the long run, it doesn't matter what others think of your favourite pieces, or indeed if Mahler's Ninth is better than Beethoven's Ninth. Enjoy what you enjoy!!


----------



## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I really like the _Triple Concerto_, preferring it for example to the _Violin Concerto,_ and thinking that it is on a par with the best of his piano concertos ... Whereas the _Choral Fantasia_ isn't for me.

Surprisingly, the Masur and the budget Shelley recordings of the Triple Concerto have been among my favourites.

_Triple Concerto:_
- Shelley,Roll,Kantorowicz,Wallfisch,RPO/int.mu.co. 95 20.3317ga
- Argerich,Capucon,Maisky,Rabinovitch,SuizzItSO/emi 4cd 50999 094031-2
- Odnoposoff,Auber,Morales,Weingartner,WPO/miletones 10cd 600476
- Zinman,Bronfman,Mørk,Shaham,Tonhalle/brilliant LVB complete box
- Masur,soli,Gew/eter 89 729 169
- B-Skoda,Bylsma,Maier,Coll.Aur/dhm 74 1065 99700
- Saraste,soli,ECO/emi harveys cfp 41 4495-1 (G.Arnold)
- Fricsay,Anda,Schneiderhahn,Fournier,BerlRSO/dg 136 236

_Choral Fantasia:_ 
- Yudina,Gorchakov,soli,USSRRSO/scribendum 47 26cd sc813
- Bernstein,Serkin,NYPO/cbs 74 73356
- Leitner,Demus,WSO/dg B-Ed. Vol.12
- Barenboim,Klemperer,NewPO,AlldCh/emi 1c063 01979
- Boettcher,Brendel,soli,StuttgPO/vox-murray hill 21lp s3456
- Brendel,Haitink,LPO/ph 5LP 77 6767 002
- Richter,Sanderling,soli,SO/mel mono 2lp 5289-91
- Semkow,Klien,Soli,St.LouisSO/brilliant LVB complete box


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I guess my point is that I like both works (as do many) and while not in Beethoven's greater (greatest) works, elements are there that move me just as does his other works. 

But my way of looking at it is that the greater number of Beethoven, Mozart, and Bach works (the so-called lesser ones) would still place higher than many of the works listed. However, some of this may have to do with the voting system and this creates more random choices, and not reflecting all the opinions. But not important though because I still like a good deal of Beethoven and think his more less inspired works are worthy of my time where other works not so much. Having said that, I am using my free streaming from the library to check out the works recommended by the list. So I have many months to sample and learn about composers I know not.


----------



## Oscardude (Jun 7, 2019)

I love both of these pieces!


----------



## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Neither work is a favorite among Beethoven's compositions, and I almost never listen to the Choral Fantasia.

I do listen to the Triple Concerto now and then, usually this recording:


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

All a matter of taste. Personally I find both very weak.


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

Kinda' like the triple concerto, maybe because it's such a curious mix---more of a piano trio with orchestral accompaniment (whereas Mozart, for example, would have written a more integrated sinfonia concertante). It's not a piece of music that's played to death and so always sounds fresh to me. It's a good A or B Side to the Brahms Double Concerto.


----------



## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I remember reading that the cellist for the Guarnari Concerto, upon having to perform this, remarked, "Because of the Triple Concerto, every cellist who goes to heaven will walk up to Beethoven and punch him in the nose."


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

The Triple Concerto is a fine work, but I love the Choral Fantasia.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Bulldog said:


> The Triple Concerto is a fine work, but I love the Choral Fantasia.


I'd give the nod to the Choral Fantasia myself. There is something about the piano opening the work and pulling me in. The choral part is later in the work and even though Beethoven did not like the setting (cannot remember exactly) it still works for me. I own Brendal/Haintink, Serkin/Bernstein, and Barenboim/conductor--live with triple concerto. Since Beethoven did not write bad music it is a matter of listening to a work on its on term and accepting it as it is. But without question I can listen to both works without effort and would place it in top tier above many works by other composers.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Have heard each a couple of times and if I hear neither ever again that's fine by me. Right down there with Wellington's Victory for my taste. No one could write masterpieces all the time.


----------



## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Along with the Fourth Piano Concerto, the "Triple" is my favorite Beethoven concerto. Top choice for me is the very fine performance with Fricsay conducting the Berlin Radio Symphony, and joined by soloists Schneiderhan, Anda and Fournier.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> Neither work is a favorite among Beethoven's compositions, and I almost never listen to the Choral Fantasia.
> 
> I do listen to the Triple Concerto now and then, usually this recording:
> 
> View attachment 120519


Same here. Great recording. I dont care too much for the Choral Fantasia. In fact i doubt ive played it at all in the past few years.


----------



## The3Bs (Apr 1, 2020)

I like both pieces but tend to hear more the Triple Concerto... 

I used to tend to the classic Richter, Oistrach, Rostropowitsch, Karajan with the Berliner.. 

Until I heard a couple of years ago the Eugene Istomin, Isaac Stern, Leonard Rose, Eugene Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra. The interplay between the soloists is a joy to hear.. they all share the protagonism and you can almost sense the them pushing each other to the front and having a laugh out of it...

I did also listen to the Fricsay conducting the Berlin Radio Symphony, and joined by soloists Schneiderhan, Anda and Fournier but the sound quality of the recording limits somewhat the full enjoyment ... 


Apart from the recommendation from above (Sol Gabetta, Giuliano Carmignola, Dejan Lazić, Antonini and the Kammerorchester Basel) which I will give it a spin, are there any other modern recordings worth considering?


----------



## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

My favourite is a classic with true 'A' team. Always a pleasure to hear the piece:








Beethoven: Triple Concerto for Piano, Violin, and Cello in C major, Op. 56

Claudio Arrau (piano), Janos Starker (cello), Henryk Szeryng (violin)
New Philharmonia Orchestra
Eliahu Inbal
Recorded: 1970-09
Recording Venue: Watford Town Hall, London

If you want a more modern recording with a light sympathetic feeling. Haitink is the man with some of best soloists about.









Gordan Nikolitch (violin), Tim Hugh (cello) & Lars Vogt (piano)
London Symphony Orchestra, Bernard Haitink


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Second Joachim Raff's suggestion of Arrau et al for the Triple Concerto, but my top choice for both works is Harnoncourt:


----------



## The3Bs (Apr 1, 2020)

Nice, three more recordings to try!!! 

Quite curious how they interact up specially in the 3rd movement interplay where the concerto opens all the gates....

Will come back and post my impressions...


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

To answer the OP: The "problem" with both works is that they keep being compared to Beethoven's other output and his own standards, rather than others'. By that measure the Triple Concerto is rather light weight, although wonderfully tuneful, whereas the Choral Fantasia is an experiment and almost a work in progress -- which with Beethoven is still fascinating but not fully formed in the way that would necessarily be satisfactory to him. We would consider either of them to be really good -- and maybe even popular -- if produced by Mendelssohn.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

My long time favorite still the Karajan recording on EMI
Recently I bought this one.
Absolutely gorgeous.



Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 & Triple Concerto

_Isabelle Faust (violin), Jean-Guihen Queyras (violoncello) & Martin Helmchen (piano)_

Gewandhausorchester, Herbert Blomstedt


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

MarkW said:


> To answer the OP: The "problem" with both works is that they keep being compared to Beethoven's other output and his own standards, rather than others'. By that measure the Triple Concerto is rather light weight, although wonderfully tuneful, whereas the Choral Fantasia is an experiment and almost a work in progress -- which with Beethoven is still fascinating but not fully formed in the way that would necessarily be satisfactory to him. We would consider either of them to be really good -- and maybe even popular -- if produced by Mendelssohn.


I agree. However, I knew that the popular works would take precedence in the listings overall but I thought these two works would be appreciated in light of it being composed by Beethoven. But another reason might be that many of the voters are not familiar with the works as they are not promoted to be his greatest works. In other words, a group of music critics who know many works and have knowledge of each piece can compare them but individual listeners have different backgrounds and each one has some they know and some they do not.

Just read your post.


----------

