# Pieces which start with a bang and get gradually more and more uninspired



## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

So this is probably gonna be the first thread in which i'll get to know the salty TC responses. 
Just as the title suggests i often get the feeling that there are masterpieces out there which have great first movements and then get totally boring and uninspired. But their first movement is always of such beauty that the piece itself is still loved and has its rightful place in the reportoire.

In these pieces it often seem that the first movement was written with such genius that the composer just couldnt go on in the same vein/ with the same inspiration which is as we know a rare thing even for the major composing geniuses. 

I find such pieces really hard to like because imo a piece should be completely well-rounded and well-balanced. 

Examples imo would be:

Sibelius Violin Concerto: Honestly the first 5-8 minutes are purely gorgeous music so well written, the beginning is so otherworldy but after that i get the feeling that the violin just sceeches its way onwards till the long awaited end.

Elgar Cello Concerto: Same case. The feeling the first movement conjures is of great unique melancholy. Nothing quite like it but the following three movements seem just boring with quite poor melody.

Franck Symphony in d minor: The first movement is great and one of the best Feench symphonic movements but while the second and last movements i find myself dozing off. 

Prokofiev Piano Concerto No. 2: The first movement is imo the best way how to write nearly atonal. Therefore it has a especially cool and interesting feeling. The othger movements are interesting as well but just not on the same level.

Can someone relate? I dont mean to insult those pieces as i know their status and the love people show for them and that is the reason why i feel like my opinion is quite unjust. Are there other pieces you peolpe think fit the description? 
PS: Dont flame me too much thx


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Schmidt's Fourth Symphony.

After a wonderful, plaintive, memorable opening trumpet solo, it's slim pickings for me in what sounds to me like 40 minutes of Richard Strauss lush imitation, devoid of the Strauss gift for melody and I wake up just in time for a repeat of that wonderful trumpet solo at the end of the symphony.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

hpowders said:


> Schmidt's Fourth Symphony.
> 
> After a wonderful, plaintive, memorable opening trumpet solo, it's slim pickings for me in what sounds to me like 40 minutes of Richard Strauss lush imitation, devoid of the Strauss gift for melody and I wake up just in time for a repeat of that wonderful trumpet solo at the end of the symphony.


Gotta love cyclic form


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. Even though I enjoy the whole thing, my favorite part is the opening melody, which soon disappears and never comes back. What a disappointment!


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony. The opening is amazing... after that, it kind of loses me.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. Even though I enjoy the whole thing, my favorite part is the opening melody, which soon disappears and never comes back. What a disappointment!


Bach does that too in the opening movement of the Unaccompanied Violin Partita No. 3-a terrific opening and then...


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Bettina said:


> Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. Even though I enjoy the whole thing, my favorite part is the opening melody, which soon disappears and never comes back. What a disappointment!


Hmm thats true fortunately Tschaikowski overflowed with melodies so at least his concerto has something more to offer but true this melody never comes back. He should have copied the french style of cyclical form......


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Beethoven's Piano Trio No. 1 might come the closest. There's also Holst's The Planets. I like Jupiter and some of the other movements, but nothing comes close to Mars.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> Franck Symphony in d minor: The first movement is great and one of the best Feench symphonic movements but while the second and last movements i find myself dozing off.





> Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony. The opening is amazing... after that, it kind of loses me.


Count me in on both and sometimes the Grieg piano concerto.


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## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

Carmina Burana. The "O Fortuna" opening is pretty epic but the rest of it just doesn't measure up. 
I might risk provoking some ire here, but Beethoven's 5th has difficulty holding my attention after the first two movements. Just isn't that much there for me.


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## Ralphus (Nov 13, 2016)

> Schmidt's Fourth Symphony.


My first thought after reading OP was Schmidt's 2nd Symphony.



> Elgar Cello Concerto


I used to feel that way until I heard Alisa Weilerstein's magnificent recording. She really makes sense of the work and ties it all together.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Ralphus said:


> My first thought after reading OP was Schmidt's 2nd Symphony.
> 
> I used to feel that way until I heard Alisa Weilerstein's magnificent recording. She really makes sense of the work and ties it all together.
> 
> View attachment 96444


Thanks for the recommendation  I only listened to du Pre as she is hailed as the only interpretation out there which does the work justice but oh well


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Gordontrek said:


> Carmina Burana. The "O Fortuna" opening is pretty epic but the rest of it just doesn't measure up.
> I might risk provoking some ire here, but Beethoven's 5th has difficulty holding my attention after the first two movements. Just isn't that much there for me.


That is a great example i mean everyone knows the first 100 or so measures and then void .......


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

Something I've heard said is that Vivaldi is known to always have excellent and memorable openings to his pieces. And that Bach recognized this in studying Vivaldi's works: the great importance of having a good opening in order to write a successful and well-perceived composition.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Has anybody mentioned Also Sprach Zarathrusta?


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Tchaikov6 said:


> Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony. The opening is amazing... after that, it kind of loses me.


Had a listen to this one thanks to your recommendation and wow the opening is rather special


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Has anybody mentioned Also Sprach Zarathrusta?


Another great example!


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

Even though the opening has become cliched like the Bee V... Also Sprach is great though! Gets into some real great stuff after that opening theme imo. Problem is all people know about or expect to hear is that epic sunrise! Who knew there would be a whole other 17 minutes of crap attached to the back of it?? Great Strauss piece though.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

Things with a really memorable start often feel like they tend to peter out towards the end. Bruch's violin concerto has a brilliant first movement, a slow and not particularly sincere second and a faux-enthusiastic finale.


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

Gordontrek said:


> Carmina Burana. The "O Fortuna" opening is pretty epic but the rest of it just doesn't measure up.
> .


What????

I say the COMPLETE opposite. 
The opening/closing is kinda lame (skippable) but the rest of the oratorio is one of my favourite oratorios. Great moment after great moment after great moment. Apart from O Fortuna, it doesn't have a dull moment :tiphat:


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## ST4 (Oct 27, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Has anybody mentioned Also Sprach Zarathrusta?


Pop culture is to thank for THAT!


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

KenOC said:


> Has anybody mentioned Also Sprach Zarathrusta?


I can't agree with that. I love all of Also Sparch Zarathustra. Yes, the opening is overrated, but I really like the rest as well.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2017)

Gordontrek said:


> I might risk provoking some ire here, but Beethoven's 5th has difficulty holding my attention after the first two movements. Just isn't that much there for me.


No, no ire provoked - not in me at any rate. If there's not that much there for you, that's ok. There's lots there for me in the 3rd and 4th movements - though in the case of the ending, just a little too much!

I can't call any examples to mind as I tend not to bother with works that don't sustain me throughout.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Anankasmo said:


> So this is probably gonna be the first thread in which i'll get to know the salty TC responses.
> Just as the title suggests i often get the feeling that there are masterpieces out there which have great first movements and then get totally boring and uninspired. But their first movement is always of such beauty that the piece itself is still loved and has its rightful place in the reportoire.
> 
> In these pieces it often seem that the first movement was written with such genius that the composer just couldnt go on in the same vein/ with the same inspiration which is as we know a rare thing even for the major composing geniuses.
> ...


Sorry that I can't agree with any of these choices and I'm familiar with all of them… So much depends upon the performances and specific recordings are not mentioned. All can be performed with momentum, interest and intensity. I don't think some of the writing within these compositions are the problem. I consider the Sibelius Violin Concerto one of the greatest, and whatever these works may have in the way of a problem it's generally not enough for them not to be performed. But I'd say it's true that the level of interest within certain sections of a work will sometimes vary. It's just that I don't think it's important for one to necessarily search them or focus on the weaker parts. For some listeners, it's the entire work that counts and not specific passages that may not hold as much interest. The Elgar Concerto is a fantastic work, all of it, especially the incredible performance by by Jacqueline du Pre. So much depends upon the performance, perhaps just as much as the work itself. I don't hear the first movement of the concerto as melancholy, but more psychologically deep and turbulent, and that's a big difference. I consider them all inspired works.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bettina said:


> Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. Even though I enjoy the whole thing, my favorite part is the opening melody, which soon disappears and never comes back. What a disappointment!


Well, while it's true, the opening theme never returns, I don't consider the rest of Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 uninspired.

I find it absolutely wonderful from first note to last.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Tallisman said:


> Things with a really memorable start often feel like they tend to peter out towards the end. Bruch's violin concerto has a brilliant first movement, a slow and not particularly sincere second and a faux-enthusiastic finale.


Love the Bruch Violin Concerto


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

As posted before, with some pieces I have to listen to them a few times and then think they're not so bad after all!


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

I think this is a thread about our Universe since everything is based on vibrations, therefore everything in this or that way is music...

am I wrong  ?


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## manyene (Feb 7, 2015)

Anankasmo said:


> Gotta love cyclic form


But a marvellous elegiac slow movement


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## Selby (Nov 17, 2012)

RVW's A Sea Symphony.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

This post proves that music is very personal. 

I find Prokofiev piano concerto no2 one of the most consistent large scale pieces of music inspiration-wise.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Mozart's Symphony #38, "Prague." The first movement is so magnificent that nothing following can touch it. In the Symphony #41, "Jupiter," the opposite happens: the fourth movement outdoes everything that comes before.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Razumovskymas said:


> This post proves that music is very personal.
> 
> I find Prokofiev piano concerto no2 one of the most consistent large scale pieces of music inspiration-wise.


I entierly agree with you the other movements are great and concerning my other given examples that is the case there as well. But i meant pieces which have such a great great great beginning which is so special in its soundscape that the composer just couldnt go on with the same composing genius.....


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Of course Franck, Tachaikowsky, Sibelius etc, were geniuses so them writing bad is rather unlikely and not something i can judge at all. But i get the feeling that their genius took them almost too far in the stated examples giving the pieces a certain unbalanced feeling. I do think that the first movements of the examples i gave are otherworldly but unfortunately i dont get the same feeling when listening to the following movements,


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

But music is highly subjective of course so everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

hpowders said:


> Schmidt's Fourth Symphony.
> 
> After a wonderful, plaintive, memorable opening trumpet solo, it's slim pickings for me in what sounds to me like 40 minutes of Richard Strauss lush imitation, devoid of the Strauss gift for melody and I wake up just in time for a repeat of that wonderful trumpet solo at the end of the symphony.


 Franz Schmidt is no imitator of his better known contemporary Richard Strauss . His music has distinctive voice of its own . This symphony might be little difficult to follow after the beginning, but with repeating hearings it should "click " for most listeners . Please keep trying with it .


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm a fanboy of Schubert and enjoy most of his writing for solo piano, yet I have mixed feelings for the commonly praised Piano Sonata in B flat Major D.960.

The first movement is serenely ethereal, the second movement is tragically beautiful (that may even outdo the _Adagio sostenuto_ from Beethoven's Hammerklavier). However, the last 2 movements are just, big _meh_.

I have heard critics saying the same thing and I completely agree with their assessments. Some postulated that he didn't have much time left, thus just threw in some earlier piano sketches to complete a grand 4-movement sonata.

Certain pianists who would like to further mystify "late-Schubert period" have sought to defend the last 2 movements with their poetic exegesis, such as the sudden shift in mood portrays the rush to the next life. No matter what they try to do, the last 2 movements are simply boring to me. I wish Schubert had left the Sonata unfinished, as with his 8th Symphony.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Tallisman said:


> Things with a really memorable start often feel like they tend to peter out towards the end. Bruch's violin concerto has a brilliant first movement, a slow and not particularly sincere second and a faux-enthusiastic finale.


Hmm the first movement is indeed beautiful especially love the timpani with the dum-da-dum ostinato or whatever it is haha  I do find the finale quite fun but indeed it seems quite flashy with few substance.... still great piece though.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Should give Suberts piano music a listen..... Only know the Improptus.... in general it always seems quite dull at least when looking at the sheet music. But since he is one of the great melodists thats probably nothing to worry about....


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## AfterHours (Mar 27, 2017)

silentio said:


> I'm a fanboy of Schubert and enjoy most of his writing for solo piano, yet I have mixed feelings for the commonly praised Piano Sonata in B flat Major D.960.
> 
> The first movement is serenely ethereal, the second movement is tragically beautiful (that may even outdo the _Adagio sostenuto_ from Beethoven's Hammerklavier). However, the last 2 movements are just, big _meh_.
> 
> ...


I do agree that the first two movements are its most astonishing, but I feel the whole work is quite remarkable. The first movement, minimalist, contemplative and haunting, plays as if he is slowly detaching from this world, off into empty spaces. As if he is feeling his way through the dark, touching and grasping at the "other side", only to feel the rumbling of death and retreat back into his nostalgia, over repeating, elegiac farewells. This poetically evolves to fragmented sorrow and gentle grief, and from time to time, the looming specter of turbulence and violence, perhaps death at the door. The 2nd movement, as you allude, is an elegy of overwhelming, poetic tragedy, an incredible piece, one of the most moving in the history of music. An indescribably haunting farewell, so close to "letting go" that it is completely devastating, only to rise into a grief-stricken, valedictory, ascension of sorrow; a time-stopping, slow-motion walk into the distance and an attempt to recover the beauty of a life cut short. The 3rd movement is a touching effort towards happiness and childhood nostalgia only to be met with subtle allusions to failure while peering down "the end of the tunnel" (and allusions back to the first movement). The 4th movement keeps attempting to overcome fate but continually losing out to reality. It ascends and descends with a sense of pending danger and suspense, interspersed by dotted keys of ambiguous emotion, happiness/nostalgia -- in a constant state of flux between runs of keys. It ends both frustrated, violent and triumphant, all at the same time. It also, remarkably, ties together and resolves the whole work, as well as D959 and D958.

To experience this work at its most poignant, introspective and devastating emotional expression, I would strongly recommend what I feel is the greatest interpretation ever recorded:


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

AfterHours said:


> I do agree that the first two movements are it's most astonishing, but I feel the whole work is quite remarkable. The first movement, minimalist, contemplative and haunting, plays as if he is slowly detaching from this world, off into empty spaces. As if he is feeling his way through the dark, touching and grasping at the "other side", only to feel the rumbling of death and retreat back into his nostalgia, over repeating elegiac farewells. This poetically evolves to fragmented sorrow and gentle grief, and from time to time, the looming specter of turbulence and violence, perhaps death at the door. The 2nd movement, as you allude, is an elegy of overwhelming, poetic tragedy, an incredible piece, one of the most moving movements in the history of music. An indescribably haunting farewell, so close to "letting go" that it is completely devastating, only to rise into a grief-stricken, valedictory, ascension of sorrow; a time-stopping, slow-motion walk into the distance and an attempt to recover the beauty of a life cut short. The 3rd movement is a touching effort towards happiness and childlike nostalgia only to met with subtle allusions to failure while peering down "the end of the tunnel" (and allusions back to the first movement). The 4th movement keeps attempting to overcome fate but continually losing out to reality. It ascends and descends with a sense of pending danger and suspense, interspersed by dotted keys of ambiguous emotion, happiness/nostalgia -- in a constant state of flux between runs of keys. It ends both frustrated, violent and triumphant, all at the same time. It also, remarkably, ties together and resolves the whole work, as well as D959 and D958.
> 
> To experience this work at its most poignant, introspective and devastating emotional expression, I would strongly recommend what I feel is the greatest interpretation ever recorded:


You nailed this one by recommending Fleisher recording, which happens to be my absolute favorite too. This is a miraculous performance, that could instantly capture the listeners by just a first few notes.

I treasure this kind of playing, which makes Schubert music flows naturally _as it is_. I just can't digest the self-indulgence of Richter and co. (i.e. whoever following his footstep to drag the first movement to its grave to make the music sound "profound" and "mysterious"). Schnabel, by the ways, is untouchable in the _Andante sostenuto_.


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## JeffD (May 8, 2017)

Let me suggest a couple of other explanations of the phenomena. 

What a composer needs to do in the opening maybe isn't what he needs to do later. I mean getting your attention and keeping your attention are two different jobs. So the first movement is a "hey, you are gonna love this, it will be a great adventure" while the second movement may often be more of a "as long as you are here anyway, and all dressed up and sitting comfortably, you might enjoy hearing this...."


More to the point though - I think we don't have the patience folks had in earlier times. So many of us are familiar with the first movements of things, and often know them well - because that what was playing while we were still listening attentively, before our mind wondered.

Just a thought.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

While I don't think many of Bruckner's symphonies might start off with a bang, it feels the development of the motif don't often progress that well.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

While I don't think the finale of Brahms' B-flat piano concerto is as good as the first three movements, if I need it to get them, I'm okay with it.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Mozart's Symphony #38, "Prague." The first movement is so magnificent that nothing following can touch it. In the Symphony #41, "Jupiter," the opposite happens: the fourth movement outdoes everything that comes before.


I have long felt the same way about the Prague. The other two movements almost seem like an afterthought hastily tacked on. I like the Jupiter fine, except for the third movement. Do we really need yet another dreary Classical period minuet in the midst of such a grand construction?


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

To break the rules a bit, and to really make Bettina hate me forever, I have always thought the first movement of the Eroica starts very strong, but then goes on too long. I'm only commenting on the first movement, and I know several will disagree with me being that this is one of Beethoven's most beloved symphonies, but that is my stance on it.

***Ducks***


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> To break the rules a bit, and to really make Bettina hate me forever, I have always thought the first movement of the Eroica starts very strong, but then goes on too long. I'm only commenting on the first movement, and I know several will disagree with me being that this is one of Beethoven's most beloved symphonies, but that is my stance on it.
> 
> ***Ducks***


I don't hate you at all! I respect your opinion, even though (as everyone on TC knows) I don't share it. I personally love the Eroica and I'm in awe of the length and stamina that he displays in that first movement.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Bettina said:


> I don't hate you at all! I respect your opinion, even though (as everyone on TC knows) I don't share it. I personally love the Eroica and I'm in awe of the length and stamina that he displays in that first movement.


You're one of the reasons this site is so awesome. Differences of opinion don't cloud intellectual analysis and conversation and that goes for the majority of the people on this site!


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

It happens sometimes with many Mozart and Haydn pieces. An amazing first movement, but inner movements that are pretty much standard fare. Of course they wrote many fantastic inner movements as well, I'm not saying they didn't. But I feel the weightier stuff was usually in the first movement, and then the inner movements were the nice minuets and adagios that the composer could whip up with relative ease, so that they could call the score finished and ship it off to the publisher. Mozart produced fast, so I assume he knew how he could sell his scores the quickest!


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

Melvin said:


> It happens sometimes with many Mozart and Haydn pieces. An amazing first movement, but inner movements that are pretty much standard fare. Of course they wrote many fantastic inner movements as well, I'm not saying they didn't. But I feel the weightier stuff was usually in the first movement, and then the inner movements were the nice minuets and adagios that the composer could whip up with relative ease, so that they could call the score finished and ship it off to the publisher. Mozart produced fast, so I assume he knew how he could sell his scores the quickest!


True that. I find his 20th piano concerto to have an awesome first movement but after that the other movements pale in comparison imo, still a ground breaking work.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Personally, I think Arvo Part's Miserere is like that. It starts out slowly but builds up inevitably to a shattering climax, but then for the next, what, five or ten minutes, it putters out. I understand trying to depict a post-apocalyptical state of shock, but shucks, you don't have to stretch it out so long.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Schmidt's Fourth Symphony.
> 
> After a wonderful, plaintive, memorable opening trumpet solo, it's slim pickings for me in what sounds to me like 40 minutes of Richard Strauss lush imitation, devoid of the Strauss gift for melody and I wake up just in time for a repeat of that wonderful trumpet solo at the end of the symphony.


I honestly think the whole of the Fourth Symphony is compelling from start to finish, with that very nice arc (or symmetry): the trumpet opening with the bittersweet, anguish development; the funereal second movement with a striking, horrific climax; the scherzo movement that is playful before everything comes crashing down, and the finale that sort of picks up where the first movement leaves off. I tend to rank it alongside Suk's Asrael, Myaskovsky's Sixth Symphony, and Glazunov's Eighth.

There is nothing imitative in the score, and Schmidt's gift for melody is squarely his own that would do Bruckner and even Reger proud, (maybe even Mahler).


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Has anybody mentioned Also Sprach Zarathrusta?


Soundz Bombastic enuff 4 me!:devil:


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Well, the 'bang' in Rossini's Wilhelm Tell ouverture really bangs, but the surrounding tedium just gets too tedious... A similar experience but clothed in Wagnerian robes one may encounter in the Tannhauser overture and the Rienzi overture.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

TxllxT said:


> Well, the 'bang' in Rossini's Wilhelm Tell ouverture really bangs, but the surrounding tedium just gets too tedious... A similar experience but clothed in Wagnerian robes one may encounter in the Tannhauser overture and the Rienzi overture.


hmmm wagners tannhäuser overture is pure bliss in the beginning with the steady build up to the climax but after this....... cant remember haha


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Bettina said:


> I don't hate you at all! I respect your opinion, even though (as everyone on TC knows) I don't share it. I personally love the Eroica and* I'm in awe of the length and stamina* that he displays in that first movement.


 They don't call it the _Erotica_ for nothing!


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