# Thoughts on overweight singers



## Malinda831 (Oct 4, 2016)

My first post on here was of a girl singing 'Ach ich Fuhls' I thought it was quite nice so I thought I would share and discuss with other music lovers! Apparently, this girls talent was otherthrown because she is overweight. So now much question is, what are your thoughts on overweight singers/musicians? As Pugg commented, apparently size DOES matter. Is an overweight girl with a real potential in opera less than a thin girl who obviously doesn't have the spark?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Malinda831 said:


> My first post on here was of a girl singing 'Ach ich Fuhls' I thought it was quite nice so I thought I would share and discuss with other music lovers! Apparently, this girls talent was otherthrown because she is overweight. So now much question is, what are your thoughts on overweight singers/musicians? As Pugg commented, apparently size DOES matter. Is an overweight girl with a real potential in opera less than a thin girl who obviously doesn't have the spark?


I did reply in your first post about this.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes it does matter on stage. Karajan once quipped that one of his contributions to opera was to "have chased all those fat ladies off the stage." Caballe was pleased Karajan gave her a contract but was not pleased when she saw the contract required her to lose 30lb! The fact is though opera is a visual art and (especiall in these days of HD broadcasts) a singer must try to look the part. Of course there will always be singers who tend to be on the large side. But as in films and theatre attention to their looks is important for men as well as women. Interestingly Karajan cast Pavorotti in his audio of Butterfly but Domingo in the Ponnelle film.


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

I worry about their health


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I couldn't worry less about the weight of any singer.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

schigolch said:


> I couldn't worry less about the weight of any singer.


You care about how an actress looks?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Different art form.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

What a great pity that an artist is judged on what she looks like rather than how well she sings

Echoes a very depressing study reported this week that highlights the negative aspect of this on young children https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...tty-body-confidence-girlguiding-study-reveals


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> You care about how an actress looks?


Not really. I care about how well she acts


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Malinda831 said:


> My first post on here was of a girl singing 'Ach ich Fuhls' I thought it was quite nice so I thought I would share and discuss with other music lovers! Apparently, this girls talent was otherthrown because she is overweight. So now much question is, what are your thoughts on overweight singers/musicians? As Pugg commented, apparently size DOES matter. Is an overweight girl with a real potential in opera less than a thin girl who obviously doesn't have the spark?


No, it doesn't matter what you look like - if your singing is exceptional enough to stand out above all the other singers. But as long as there is a supply of equally fine voices, those with a physical "bonus" will be chosen first. It's for the eyes and ears after all..


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

All posts by Malinda831 so far are about a young and unknown singer. I'm detecting a trend and must question whether the poster is more interested in this than in being part of the forum.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Judith said:


> I worry about their health


We don´t want them to end up like Johan Bohta.
Then there are overweight and even obese singers and these are fine but this girl have a real problem.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Singer's looks are never a negative for me, but it can be a positive. Still, there is a point at which I think lack of physical fitness can have a negative impact on vocal production and ability to execute on stage directions.


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## Malinda831 (Oct 4, 2016)

Don Fatale said:


> All posts by Malinda831 so far are about a young and unknown singer. I'm detecting a trend and must question whether the poster is more interested in this than in being part of the forum.


I literally just joined and have only posted twice. Right now, this was what I was interested in, you are welcome to go to another's post if mine bother you. Also, THIS thread is based on the weight question, not the girl!


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Judith said:


> I worry about their health





Sloe said:


> We don´t want them to end up like Johan Bohta.


Johan Botha died of liver cancer; you have to get to risk factors for the risk factors to even discuss obesity as a cause.

Weight or build is a poor predictor of health. It is certainly not as good as many people assume it is.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There are limits to everything. Opera must be well sung, but it should be well-acted as well. A singer whose weight makes him or her look awkward and dramatically unconvincing onstage is too fat. Watch the video of the Met's _Tristan_ with Jane Eaglen and Ben Heppner, and tell me weight doesn't matter. Eaglen in particular is theatrically hopeless, although she sings quite well. I find her unwatchable.

Opera singers, especially big-voiced singers, have always tended to be on the stouter side - there are legitimate reasons for that - and the "fat lady" who sings at the end is legendary. But not many of the great singers of the past were extremely obese. Obesity afflicts the general population in our day, and the shape of singers reflects this. It is not a good thing, and a stand must be taken against it. If a singer has a great talent, he shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing a career because of his weight, but an opera company is not unreasonable in bypassing him if a more physically attractive singer can be found. I do not care to watch 250 pounds of scantily clad flesh belly dancing around the head of John the Baptist (sorry Deborah)!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I prefer listening to opera recordings. That way I don't have to view the sucky acting and 280 pound Manricos, 430 pound Tristans and 376.3 pound Gildas.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> Johan Botha died of liver cancer; you have to get to risk factors for the risk factors to even discuss obesity as a cause.
> 
> Weight or build is a poor predictor of health. It is certainly not as good as many people assume it is.


Obesity can cause liver cancer if someone tells me he was also an alcoholic I will take it back.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I prefer listening to opera recordings. That way I don't have to view the sucky acting and 280 pound Manricos, 430 pound Tristans and 376.3 pound Gildas.


You know a pound is only less than half of a kg so it is much less than it sounds.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Opera needs suspension of disbelief. 

It's not only due to singers being too fat (or too thin), just think on how many teenagers Salomes can we find singing the Jewish seductress. 

Physique du role can be very important for some fans, totally irrelevant for others. In my case, I care zero about this. Nothing. Nada. To me, vocal acting is paramount.

I understand is different for others, and I have no problem with that. Verdi himself was pretty angry when Fanny Salvini-Donatelli (at 38, and with some 200 pounds of weight) premiered "La traviata". So, yes, composers as great as Verdi cared about this issue, being handsome had never hurt the career of a singer, and today with the close-ups and DVDs the importance of being "credible" from a visual point of view is growing.

But, having said that, to me is all the same. I don't care. This is my personal option.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

schigolch said:


> I understand is different for others, and I have no problem with that. Verdi himself was pretty angry when Fanny Salvini-Donatelli (at 38, and with some 200 pounds of weight) premiered "La traviata".


How tall was she?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

schigolch said:


> Opera needs suspension of disbelief.
> 
> It's not only due to singers being too fat (or too thin), just think on how many teenagers Salomes can we find singing the Jewish seductress.
> 
> ...


I admire a man who sticks to his principles. And your weight is irrelevant. :tiphat:


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Don't know, but Verdi was complaining about her appearance as, in harsh terms, "too old and fat". However, he was much more kinder with her singing.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Sloe said:


> Obesity can cause liver cancer if someone tells me he was also an alcoholic I will take it back.


Obesity can lead to non-alcoholic steatohepatitis, which can lead to cirrhosis, which can lead to liver cancer. There are many other things that can lead to liver cancer. And yes, damage from heavy alcohol use can also lead to cirrhosis, which can lead to liver cancer.

But such speculation about someone's health issues is as bizarre as it is distasteful. There are many other issues that can lead to liver cancer. It's also entirely possible he had a different type of cancer that spread to the liver (as has happened to people close to me), so that's another reason we just don't have the information to make wild guesses, or to offer health advice to/judgments of people we don't (or do) know.

This is real life, not simplistic theater plots where someone coughs once and you know they're going to die of consumption.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

For me it matters how good a singer they are. It also depends on the role. I would have loved to have heard Alessandra Marc in Turandot and her size would not have mattered. She would have been a great Tosca, but in that role her size would have been a problem.
I saw Stephanie Blythe in Carmen and many were bothered by her size, but it did not faze me and she is perhaps the greatest mezzo today. She really acted sultry.... some had trouble buying it. She does have a beautiful face.
I would have loved to have seen butterball Rita Hunter in Norma or Bruinhilde easily. Her English Ring is one of the best Bruinhilde's on record. She easily could have sung Violetta but I think her size might have mattered there.
I think Caballe would have had a tough time singing as much as she did today. I would have loved to have heard her live.
Jane Eaglen was a cow, but in her first dozen years or so I think she was the best Wagnerian soprano around and I easily overlooked her size for the magnificence of her voice. 
Sutherland and Nilsson were not fashion models by any means, but they were not gobby fat like some of the singers around today. For me, if the voice is really great, I would prefer a large singer over a pretty singer with a more mediocre voice.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

schigolch said:


> Opera needs suspension of disbelief.


And we all have our own suspension abilities. That's why I for one can rarely ever tolerate "traditional" costumes - because they tend to be made for fictional characters, not for real people who happen to be old or fat. That's why for me of the following two Isoldes only the one with the modern costume is credible:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

interestedin said:


> And we all have our own suspension abilities. That's why I for one can rarely ever tolerate "traditional" costumes - because they tend to be made for fictional characters, not for real people who happen to be old or fat. That's why for me of the following two Isoldes only the one with the modern costume is credible:
> 
> View attachment 89282
> 
> View attachment 89281


I don't see your point at all. Weren't medieval clothes worn by real medieval people - people who may have been old or fat (granted that medieval people didn't sit all day in front of screens and munch potato chips)? And would you really prefer the modern costume on the obese singer? I should think its fitted bodice would be even more revealing of her size.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Woodduck said:


> Weren't medieval clothes worn by real medieval people - people who may have been old or fat


They probably were. But I wasn't there to see it  I only know them from people wearing it for acting purposes - young & slim. Sorry, Hollywood ruined that for me. Fat people in an ordinary wedding dress on the other hand is something I have seen before.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

When I was younger and poorer and sat in the nosebleed seats, it literally made zero difference what the singers looked like--they were just little figures in the distance, and all I cared about was the way the voices filled the spaces up near the rafters where I was. 

Now that I can afford to sit a little closer, I still find myself not caring over much. I tend to watch opera kind of the way I listen to the symphony, watching the stage action only at times, and gazing up into space and concentrating on the music most of the time, especially with operas that I'm very familiar with. That's also why I really don't care about regie versus trad--maybe my first 5 or 6 times watching a particular opera, I would pay more attention to the stage action, but definitely not for most of the warhorses.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Frequent operagoers may have a different perspective from that of those who attend rarely. I can listen to the music at home, sung by the cast of my choice. On those special occasions when I can get to a theater I want what I'm looking at to be dramatically convincing and to bear some resemblance to what I imagine the opera is about. Unattractive actors and weird stagings both detract from that.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

I expect many opera singers to tend toward the chunky, so I usually don't notice or care - except one time I just found myself unable to look past it - Sharon Sweet in (I think) La Forza del Destino at the Met.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Malinda831 said:


> I literally just joined and have only posted twice. Right now, this was what I was interested in, you are welcome to go to another's post if mine bother you. Also, THIS thread is based on the weight question, not the girl!


Are you by any chance the singer it self?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> I expect many opera singers to tend toward the chunky, so I usually don't notice or care - except one time I just found myself unable to look past it - Sharon Sweet in (I think) La Forza del Destino at the Met.


I would say they are as chunky as people are in average. The really obese ones are in minority.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

schigolch said:


> Don't know, but Verdi was complaining about her appearance as, in harsh terms, "too old and fat". However, he was much more kinder with her singing.


If a 38 year old singer was cast as Violetta nowadays people would be happy to see such a young Violetta.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Caballe was pleased Karajan gave her a contract but was not pleased when she saw the contract required her to lose 30lb!


Caballe was also much slimmer when she started singing. She became really fat when she already was an established singer.


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## Anna Viola (Aug 28, 2016)

There are people who admire big, beautiful women. Who am I to say that Tristan couldn't find a roundly Isolde attractive?


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## Tuoksu (Sep 3, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> But not many of the great singers of the past were extremely obese. Obesity afflicts the general population in our day, and the shape of singers reflects this.


Ditto.

People tend to think that singers used to be obese, while today they are becoming much better looking. Actually I find most of the finest singers in opera history were in a good shape. They were not model-skinny, but they looked voluptuously healthy and pretty attractive. Even Callas before the weight loss wasn't that heavy. She was quite hefty. And She soon turned her self into an Audrey Hepburn. Joanie had a perfect figure, Virginia Zeani was stunningly gorgeous and the list goes on: Tebaldi, Ponselle, Nilsson, Schwarzkopf, Corelli, Del Monaco, Kraus, Caruso etc...Of course there was the odd Caballé and Cerquetti but that was the exception rather than the rule. 
Most of the singers looked good in their costumes and their weight never interfered with their dramatic capabilities.

Singers today however...Just look at Jamie Barton, Stephanie Blythe, Angela Meade..etc 
It is obviously a recent phenomenon.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Anna Viola said:


> There are people who admire big, beautiful women. Who am I to say that Tristan couldn't find a roundly Isolde attractive?


He is under influence of a love potion so she can look outright hideous.
And for these roles they take whoever can sing them decently.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

There is a difference between overweight and obese, from a medical perspective. Overweight tends not to phase me, and in fact people merely in the "overweight" category do not have major increased health risks (outside of perhaps some joint trouble). Obesity is certainly another matter with heart health and other risks; but I don't necessarily see any posts about opera singers who smoke.....(actually I AM very curious about that. I think smoking would be potentially disasterous to an opera singer. Do we know if any of the major singers DO?) 

Obesity isn't going to "hurt" an opera singer in my eyes/ears, though I am certainly human and a very attractive person who is a good opera singer would be very enjoyable. It's not a major issue to me because I listen to about 80-90% of my opera.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Not really. I care about how well she acts


Even if she looks nothing like the part she's playing?


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Sonata said:


> There is a difference between overweight and obese, from a medical perspective. Overweight tends not to phase me, and in fact people merely in the "overweight" category do not have major increased health risks (outside of perhaps some joint trouble). Obesity is certainly another matter with heart health and other risks; but I don't necessarily see any posts about opera singers who smoke.....(actually I AM very curious about that. I think smoking would be potentially disasterous to an opera singer. Do we know if any of the major singers DO?)
> 
> Obesity isn't going to "hurt" an opera singer in my eyes/ears, though I am certainly human and a very attractive person who is a good opera singer would be very enjoyable. It's not a major issue to me because I listen to about 80-90% of my opera.


I am allergic to smoking and find it detestable, but I really don't care what singers smoke, and am not going to judge them or express concern about their life choices. It is not my place to judge singers or other strangers in this way. Everyone has their own weird/dangerous/unhealthy habits.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> I am allergic to smoking and find it detestable, but I really don't care what singers smoke, and am not going to judge them or express concern about their life choices. It is not my place to judge singers or other strangers in this way. Everyone has their own weird/dangerous/unhealthy habits.


Whatever the dangers letting smoke irritate your throat when it is your work equipment is really stupid.
Singers are the last people that should smoke.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

mountmccabe said:


> I am allergic to smoking and find it detestable, but I really don't care what singers smoke, and am not going to judge them or express concern about their life choices. It is not my place to judge singers or other strangers in this way. Everyone has their own weird/dangerous/unhealthy habits.


I was playing Devil's advocate: someone in a previous post mentioned that the excess weight may pose a risk to the singer's health, so I was drawing a comparison.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Sonata said:


> There is a difference between overweight and obese, from a medical perspective. Overweight tends not to phase me, and in fact people merely in the "overweight" category do not have major increased health risks (outside of perhaps some joint trouble). Obesity is certainly another matter with heart health and other risks; but I don't necessarily see any posts about opera singers who smoke.....(actually I AM very curious about that. I think smoking would be potentially disasterous to an opera singer. Do we know if any of the major singers DO?)


Rene Pape smokes. Doesn't seem to hurt his singing any. Quite a few golden and silver age stars smoked too. Caruso was a smoker, Fischer Dieskau, Tito Schipa, Siepi, Pinza, Caballe, Salminen, loads of people.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sutherland once said that one of the big difference between most of her peers and many of the singers of today is that "we at least had discernable waistlines" or something to that effect.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> For me it matters how good a singer they are. It also depends on the role. I would have loved to have heard Alessandra Marc in Turandot and her size would not have mattered. She would have been a great Tosca, but in that role her size would have been a problem.
> I saw Stephanie Blythe in Carmen and many were bothered by her size, but it did not faze me and she is perhaps the greatest mezzo today. She really acted sultry.... some had trouble buying it. She does have a beautiful face.
> I would have loved to have seen butterball Rita Hunter in Norma or Bruinhilde easily. Her English Ring is one of the best Bruinhilde's on record. She easily could have sung Violetta but I think her size might have mattered there.
> I think Caballe would have had a tough time singing as much as she did today. I would have loved to have heard her live.
> ...


I saw Rita Hunter in the ENO Ring when it came to Glasgow in the seventies. She was a bit large but not desperately so and she was phenomenal. I didn't mind because I was so excited to see my first Ring cycle so brilliantly sung.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

DavidA said:


> Even if she looks nothing like the part she's playing?


How well she acts (and sings) is the most important part .... for me


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Sonata said:


> ... but I don't necessarily see any posts about opera singers who smoke.....(actually I AM very curious about that. I think smoking would be potentially disasterous to an opera singer. Do we know if any of the major singers DO?)


There are many more than you would imagine who smoke. To name only two off the top of my head: Pape and Hvorostovsky (who probably has quit by now with his brain tumor problems)


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

Giorgio Zancanaro was said to have smoked like a chimney. And yet, he also was famous for being able to sing night after night with no problems (there is a book by conductor Rico Saccani which mentions that Zancanaro sang 22 out of 28 nights one February in the 80s). 

That said, his voice declined sooner than it should have, and no doubt, smoking and perhaps too many gigs was a factor.

In fact a video of him just turned up recently on YouTube where he sings a bit of "Non ti scordar di me" to a fan (he's 77) and you can see his wife quietly mocking his smoking habit!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Caruso's heavy smoking undoubtedly contributed to his death at age 48. It may also have been responsible for the increased darkness and weight of his voice that we hear in his later recordings (though improved recording technology may have contributed to this). As I listen to his late recordings I hear a heldentenor being born and feel a pang of regret that he didn't live to sing Tristan.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

If it acceptable to tell a constantly caughing prematurely aged 40 year old to quit smoking. It should be acceptable to tell a 20 year old with the mass of 2 normal weight 20 year olds to eat less.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Sloe said:


> If it acceptable to tell a constantly caughing prematurely aged 40 year old to quit smoking. It should be acceptable to tell a 20 year old with the mass of 2 normal weight 20 year olds to eat less.


That's not really what the question is though. The question is whether you would or should consider a person's appearance when evaluating their singing. To me, it's just as germane as evaluating a pianist's or a conductor's or, say, an oboeist's appearance but many disagree.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> That's not really what the question is though. The question is whether you would or should consider a person's appearance when evaluating their singing. To me, it's just as germane as evaluating a pianist's or a conductor's or, say, an oboeist's appearance but many disagree.


The question is certainly not if René Pape put burning sticks in his mouth either.

Here is the clip that the OP was referring to:






The girl have a serious problem. I see people being that fat in real life maybe a couple of times each year.
In opera the singers are the characters it have settings and costumes so there is a visual part.
And yes health issues affect the capability to perform what if it is required that she should move around a lot on stage many obese people have problem moving only a few meters what if she will loose her capability to stand up in a few years.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Sloe said:


> The question is certainly not if René Pape put burning sticks in his mouth either.
> 
> Here is the clip that the OP was referring to:
> 
> ...


I must applaud you, just for taking the time to actually see the girl.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Sloe said:


> If it acceptable to tell a constantly caughing prematurely aged 40 year old to quit smoking. It should be acceptable to tell a 20 year old with the mass of 2 normal weight 20 year olds to eat less.


That is simplistic - a weight problem is not necessarily an over-eating problem


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm glad this post is not considered radioactive. I come from a musical theatre background and THE toughest hurdle for me in loving opera has been singers who do not look like the role they are supposed to be playing and/or cannot act. 

It took me a looooong time to realise that many (most?) opera fans don't seem to care if the singer playing Cinderella is 300lbs with a mustache and a wooden leg to boot.

I wish all singers who are supposed to be playing young, beautiful women looked like Barbara Hannigan or Natalie Dessay in her youth.

And BTW, this applies to men as well. I couldn't enjoy Pavarotti in the roles I saw (admittedly only on video) for the same reason---despite his supreme gifts as a singer. Domingo was never as good a singer, IMO, but ya gotta admit he -looked- like a hero.

There I said it. I feel better now. 

I simply cannot truly lose myself in a work if I don't -believe- the character visually. They must be able to ACT and look great and sing like a bird. Not asking too much am I?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Pugg said:


> I must applaud you, just for taking the time to actually see the girl.


I found it appropriate to make it clear what is being discussed. It is not fat Callas fat. It is something way beyond that.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Becca said:


> That is simplistic - a weight problem is not necessarily an over-eating problem


Also, I'm fairly confident that anyone that student's size is very aware of her weight and many people's opinion of that weight without being lectured about it by internet strangers.

If the question is whether it's fair to reply to the posting of that video to solicit opinions of singing ability by replying "ugh, fat", I think I'm in the camp that says it's not.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

howlingfantods said:


> Also, I'm fairly confident that anyone that student's size is very aware of her weight and many people's opinion of that weight without being lectured about it by internet strangers.
> 
> If the question is whether it's fair to reply to the posting of that video to solicit opinions of singing ability by replying "ugh, fat", I think I'm in the camp that says it's not.


Of course she knows about her problem. And you would not do that in real life: Imagine an overweight stranger asks you for the way on the street and you answer: "The XY-Street - right over there, third on the left. But hey, you really have to lose weight. Walking is much easier if you're healthy!"


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Or imagine if you are asked by a much thinner girl, possibly suffering of anorexia, and you answer: "The XY-Street - right over there, third on the left. But hey, you really have to win weight. Walking is much easier if you're healthy!".

In the end, and restricting to opera, this is again depending on how each member of the audience is managing his suspension of disbelief. For instance, and for some people, watching Ms. Hannigan in her forties playing young girls like Lulu or Agnès is fine, while a younger singer but with a more rotund body, won't be credible.

Traditionally, and for many opera fans (for most opera fans, I daresay, if I speak about the people I know. Quite a few indeed, but of course just a tiny percentage of the world's opera fans), the important thing is to be a vocal actress. 

But of course is fine for people with a different sensitivity to care for "looking the part". Just remember that this is *your* option, and not necessarily *the* option, everyone else must agree is the right one. We in Madrid will soon be watching 'Norma', sung by Angela Meade (and Maria Agresta) and I can assure you there is little discussion about her weight. (as measured in pounds, there is some more about her vocal weight).


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

I think the nature of the problem I had with Sharon Sweet (in that particular production) mentioned uptopic... it was that one got the impression that she simply couldn't move around stage adequately. Not that Leonora is a tremendously athletic role or anything like that, but she was nearly immobile in some scenes.

(And although I don't wish to call anyone out or hijack this thread over language, etc etc... I feel I have to say that... I don't think it's right to give any woman an animal label. Just saying. Thank you.)


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Sloe said:


> I found it appropriate to make it clear what is being discussed. It is not fat Callas fat. It is something way beyond that.


Callas was built like a classical statue... the Venus di Milo. She actually had a waistline at her heaviest.Regarding Sweet.. she had a thyroid problem that hindered her losing weight. She had a really wonderful voice. She quit over the hassling she got over her weight.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Callas was built like a classical statue... the Venus di Milo. She actually had a waistline at her heaviest.Regarding Sweet.. she had a thyroid problem that hindered her losing weight. She had a really wonderful voice. She quit over the hassling she got over her weight.


She had a BMI of 34. She was obese but not extremely obese. I reacted because the op called the thread thoughts on overweight singers while apparently meaning seriously obese singers. I wonder do the op know what overweight and obese mean.
Thinking of it most of the fat singers seems to be American.
There is also a fat acceptance movement. There are fat people that see no problems with being fat.


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## Kenadee2211 (Oct 10, 2016)

Sloe said:


> The question is certainly not if René Pape put burning sticks in his mouth either.
> 
> Here is the clip that the OP was referring to:
> 
> ...


Hi so I was told by a friend who frequents this site that my video was shared and I have to say a lot of you are disgusting horrible people to speak this way about someone you've never seen/ have no idea who they are and what they've been through. I GUARANTEE you see people FAR more overweight than I am daily. I walk, move, and stand JUST FINE. I am obese but I'm not any less talented because of it. I just started out and tend to go sharp when I'm nervous, I'm human. I've only been classically trained for about a year and a half and I'm proud of my accomplishments. Which includes losing 50 pounds since this video was recorded. All of you fat shaming me should feel ashamed.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Kenadee2211 said:


> Hi so I was told by a friend who frequents this site that my video was shared and I have to say a lot of you are disgusting horrible people to speak this way about someone you've never seen/ have no idea who they are and what they've been through. I GUARENTEE you see people FAR more overweight than I am daily. I walk, move, and stand JUST FINE. I am obese but I'm not any less talented because of it. I just started out and tend to go sharp when I'm nervous, I'm human. I've only been classically trained for about a year and a half and I'm proud of my accomplishments. Which includes losing 50 pounds since this video was recorded. All of you fat shaming me should feel ashamed.


Sorry Kenadee. Good luck on your studies--I'm no singing teacher so I can't provide tips or anything but it sounds like you have a lovely voice and good musicianship.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Kenadee2211 said:


> Hi so I was told by a friend who frequents this site that my video was shared and I have to say a lot of you are disgusting horrible people to speak this way about someone you've never seen/ have no idea who they are and what they've been through. I GUARANTEE you see people FAR more overweight than I am daily. I walk, move, and stand JUST FINE. I am obese but I'm not any less talented because of it. I just started out and tend to go sharp when I'm nervous, I'm human. I've only been classically trained for about a year and a half and I'm proud of my accomplishments. Which includes losing 50 pounds since this video was recorded. All of you fat shaming me should feel ashamed.


If so, you should not have put in on the internet.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't want no skinny Brunnhilde!


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## Casebearer (Jan 19, 2016)

Pugg said:


> If so, you should not have put in on the internet.


Well, if putting things on the internet is the decisive thing here, then why do you post on TC?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Kenadee2211 said:


> Hi so I was told by a friend who frequents this site that my video was shared and I have to say a lot of you are disgusting horrible people to speak this way about someone you've never seen/ have no idea who they are and what they've been through. I GUARANTEE you see people FAR more overweight than I am daily. I walk, move, and stand JUST FINE. I am obese but I'm not any less talented because of it. I just started out and tend to go sharp when I'm nervous, I'm human. I've only been classically trained for about a year and a half and I'm proud of my accomplishments. Which includes losing 50 pounds since this video was recorded. All of you fat shaming me should feel ashamed.


It is not easy to know that I see people more obese daily than you when you have lost over 1/3 of my own weight since then. Not all of us live in places were people take the car to drive across the block, were it is closer to a fast food restaurant than a grocery shop and were people have use scooters to move around with when they are shopping.
Good luck on your singing and congratulations on your dieting.


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## Kenadee2211 (Oct 10, 2016)

Pugg said:


> If so, you should not have put in on the internet.


I 'put it on the internet' to document my VOCAL ABILITIES. Not my weight. I don't understand why you're so obsessed with bringing overweight singers down, but it's really showing what kind of person you are. If you don't want to sound like an insensitive jerk, then you shouldn't post comments on the internet.


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## Kenadee2211 (Oct 10, 2016)

Sloe said:


> It is not easy to know that I see people more obese daily than you when you have lost over 1/3 of my own weight since then.
> Good luck on your singing and congratulations on your dieting.


Sorry to inconvenience you with my obesity. Next time I'll remember to think about YOUR feelings while you're blatantly fat shaming me. It's not 'easy' to read your comments either.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Kenadee, I find your singing quite lovely.
Getting overweight would be much more of a threat to your health than it is to your evolution as a musician, so as long as you are aware of it and acting accordingly (and it seems you are) it's alli good. Keep up the good work.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)




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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

starthrower said:


> I don't want no skinny Brunnhilde!


Brünnhilde should be heavy but the weight should be in muscles she is an athletic woman but still female and attractive.


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## graziesignore (Mar 13, 2015)

(can we please go back to talking about smoking basses and baritones?)


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

graziesignore said:


> (can we please go back to talking about smoking basses and baritones?)


I think that should have its own thread.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

This thread is about overweight singers _in the context of opera_. Perhaps we can simply discuss general issues with weight in opera and not focus on a particular member or personal issues.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I don't like fat singers, as I don't think they are as nice to look as normal sized people, and it makes it harder to visually enjoy the action in some operas. I think they should lose weight and consider their health as well as how it might affect their career.

There... I've kept it on topic.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Don Fatale said:


> I don't like fat singers, as I don't think they are as nice to look as normal sized people, and it makes it harder to visually enjoy the action in some operas. I think they should lose weight and consider their health as well as how it might affect their career.
> 
> There... I've kept it on topic.


I like some overweight and probably obese singers but when they are morbidly obese it just get disturbing.


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## Scopitone (Nov 22, 2015)

graziesignore said:


> smoking basses


Is a "smoking bass" something akin to Ace Frehley's rocket-launcher guitar?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Damn this thread escalated real quick! It must have been shocking to have her show up. Congrats to her for losing weight, but if it was a bad as it seems she shouldn't have been posted the vid if she wasn't tough enough to face the criticism.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> Damn this thread escalated real quick! It must have been shocking to have her show up. Congrats to her for losing weight, but if it was a bad as it seems she shouldn't have been posted the vid if she wasn't tough enough to face the criticism.


Well she sung nice so why should she not. I might have reacted too harsh but it was mostly for the thread title was thought on overweight singers when what the op had in mind was obese.


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## suntower (Mar 29, 2015)

WRONG.

An instrumentalist's appearance should be irrelevant. (Sadly, people are all too obsessed with the 'hotness' of both male and female performers.

But in the case of singers, appearance matters. They are ACTORS. And I think most people watching a play would have a tough time accepting an obese person playing, say, Cinderella. No amount of 'method' will overcome a large disparity between what the character -should- look like and what one -is-.



howlingfantods said:


> That's not really what the question is though. The question is whether you would or should consider a person's appearance when evaluating their singing. To me, it's just as germane as evaluating a pianist's or a conductor's or, say, an oboeist's appearance but many disagree.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Sloe said:


> Well she sung nice so why should she not. I might have reacted too harsh but it was mostly for the thread title was thought on overweight singers when what the op had in mind was obese.


I don't think you were out of line. Perhaps she could have posted the audio only until her weight was more under control. If she hopes to grace the opera stages of the world she will need to be prepared for her appearance & singing to be commented on, sometimes negatively. Like Suntower said, opera singers are singing "actors".


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Bonetan said:


> I don't think you were out of line. Perhaps she could have posted the audio only until her weight was more under control. If she hopes to grace the opera stages of the world she will need to be prepared for her appearance & singing to be commented on, sometimes negatively. Like Suntower said, opera singers are singing "actors".


I agree with your last sentence. Consequently, the only time I really care about an opera singer's weight is when that weight is clearly hindering the singer's movement in a role: when the singer, in other words, _has_ to be all but stationary onstage due to obesity. _That's_ when I care about weight in the context of opera.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

howlingfantods said:


> Rene Pape smokes. Doesn't seem to hurt his singing any. Quite a few golden and silver age stars smoked too. Caruso was a smoker, Fischer Dieskau, Tito Schipa, Siepi, Pinza, Caballe, Salminen, loads of people.


Leontyne Price, too (she may have quit at some point during her career though -- I'm not sure).


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