# Agree/Disagree: Beethoven Symph 1 is His Best



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I argue that it is his most balanced work, and reflects a steady mindset where all too often he is turbulent.

(esp the first mvt., I'm not as familiar with the rest of it).


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

To me, it's his Jupiter Symphony.


----------



## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I'm afraid I disagree quite strongly, for a variety of reasons. "Steady" is an odd description of a piece in C major whose first couple of bars are in F major, and terms like "best" and "too often" suggest that you think there's something wrong with Beethoven being turbulent, when that's the very ingredient which so many find valuable in his music.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I enjoy it immensely (as did my son, who was a violinist, when they played it in High School). But the Eroica is still his greatest.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I argue that it is his most balanced work, and reflects a steady mindset where all too often he is turbulent.
> 
> (esp the first mvt., I'm not as familiar with the rest of it).


So, just how familiar are you with the symphony that you take care to say that you're more familiar with just the 1st movement


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

LvB #1 is a fine work....but the master was just getting warmed up....#2 is a considerable jump ahead, then #3 launches into cosmic territory!! then throw in Leonore #3....!!


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

To me, it's his second _weakest_ symphony.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Forster said:


> So, just how familiar are you with the symphony that you take care to say that you're more familiar with just the 1st movement


Every time I've heard it, I think this is my favorite of his. CM is so complex, it's hard to recall the melodies while not listening to it.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

ORigel said:


> To me, it's his second _weakest_ symphony.


For me as well (a tie with the second symphony).


----------



## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

No 1 was just the starting point. Not bad for a beginner like. But compared with what came later…???


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I'm afraid I disagree quite strongly, for a variety of reasons. "Steady" is an odd description of a piece in C major whose first couple of bars are in F major, and terms like "best" and "too often" suggest that you think there's something wrong with Beethoven being turbulent, when that's the very ingredient which so many find valuable in his music.


I believe Art should inspire the soul, and that which makes us wallow in sadness, or have such turbulence is sub-par. That's just what I look for, but understand many will disagree.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Wasn't the first also Classical in it's inspiration?


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Every time I've heard it, I think this is my favorite of his. CM is so complex, it's hard to recall the melodies while not listening to it.


That's true, but the melody in the 4th mvmt is the most memorable (IMO) so get to it.


----------



## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

It has never been so easy to disagree with something! I have no conflict at all!

To me, the 1st is only ahead of the 4th.


----------



## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

By the way, all of Beethoven's symphonies of even number are not too turbulent, so the OP is just confused.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Livly_Station said:


> It has never been so easy to disagree with something! I have no conflict at all!
> To me, the 1st is only ahead of the 4th.


The slow movement of the 4th alone is almost worth the whole of 1, 2 and 6 together. 
For some reason even prominent musicians (I think Furtwängler was one) have estimated the 1st higher than the 2nd which is wrong (again the slow movement of the 2nd is worth about the whole of the 1st ).

The first is a very interesting piece but Beethoven is treading very carefully here compared to a lot of earlier pieces (such as the C major piano concerto, several piano sonatas and chamber music are either more daring or on a larger scale or both), writing a very terse, comic piece of mostly modest dimensions and some things do not fit together perfectly. There are some big noisy sections, especially the coda of the first movement that seem a bit out of proportion with the rest. The slow movement is not really slow, more of a scherzando (like in the c minor quartet), so there is not a strong contrast to the rest. It's almost a "neoclassical" symphony, like the 8th. The perfect movement is the 3rd, I think, the only one that might be better than the one from the 2nd.


----------



## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

Kreisler jr said:


> The slow movement of the 4th alone is almost worth the whole of 1, 2 and 6 together.


The 4th is the only one of B's symphonies I actually dislike. I never had a good time with it. And the slow movement being good doesn't salvage the entire experience.



> For some reason even prominent musicians (I think Furtwängler was one) have estimated the 1st higher than the 2nd which is wrong (again the slow movement of the 2nd is worth about the whole of the 1st


Well, I don't think this is a matter of right or wrong, but I agree that the 2nd is wonderful from start to finish. It's one of my favorites, only behind some of the usual suspects.


----------



## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I rarely listen anymore to the 1st symphony. It just doesn't scale the artistic heights of the later symphonies, and it has little to do with turbulence.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I think one has to become familiar with all movements before making any qualitative judgment on the whole symphony.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

The First is a fine work and if it had been the only work he had written he would still be known as a great composer. But his greatest? Not for me. To me his greatest is the 7th. For many reasons: some subjective, some objective.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Livly_Station said:


> It has never been so easy to disagree with something! I have no conflict at all!
> 
> To me, the 1st is only ahead of the 4th.


 !! Hmmm....the 4th is really excellent, quite original, and probably, technically, the most difficult.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Kreisler jr said:


> *The slow movement of the 4th alone is almost worth the whole of 1, 2 and 6 together. *
> For some reason even prominent musicians (I think Furtwängler was one) have estimated the 1st higher than the 2nd which is wrong (again *the slow movement of the 2nd is worth about the whole of the 1st*


The slow mvts of 2 and 4 are really quite glorious. I don't know if they're better than all of 6 or 2, but they are wonderful - the scale of woodwind writing alone is really superior, shows a depth of development and expression that far exceeds anything in Sym #1....


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I believe Art should inspire the soul, and that which makes us wallow in sadness, or have such turbulence is sub-par.


I wonder what you think "the soul" is if it can only be inspired by ignoring major areas of human experience. I don't know about my soul, but I'm most inspired by music that conveys the fullest experience of being human. Angels playing harps on pink clouds need not apply.


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> The slow mvts of 2 and 4 are really quite glorious. I don't know if they're better than all of 6 or 2, but they are wonderful - the scale of woodwind writing alone is really superior, shows a depth of development and expression that far exceeds anything in Sym #1....


I don't know how to get to the best or better part, but I love the last movement of the 1st disproportionately. I really think it's important that I know all these works for so long and have no idea what the best is, they are so fundamental to the way my brain hears music. I feel grateful that I've had all these years with Beethoven and I marvel and sort of mourn for the big part of the world that doesn't have this.
There's a little ascending scamper in thirds in the strings in the last movement of the first that just makes the heavens open when done well.
I see the point about the 4th also, some of the same impetus and really tough to play, so when a great orchestra gets it right, sparks fly!!


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Livly_Station said:


> The 4th is the only one of B's symphonies I actually dislike. I never had a good time with it. And the slow movement being good doesn't salvage the entire experience.
> 
> Well, I don't think this is a matter of right or wrong, but I agree that the 2nd is wonderful from start to finish. It's one of my favorites, only behind some of the usual suspects.


The last time I heard a cycle was right at the pandemic's start with the VPO/Nelsons in Paris. Subpar set but the 2nd was the piece that set the hall on edge, really wonderful. I didn't realize it could do that but both the players and the audience clearly swept away.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I think Beethoven is "holding back" to some extent in the 1st symphony. I seem to recall that even the scoring was originally without clarinets (like in the B flat major pc). It is a rather concentrated witty piece and it does have some excentricities like the beginning that was already mentioned above with the "wrong key" and woodwinds dominating the strings in that introduction but e.g. the funny intro for the finale is more Haydnesque humor than Beethovenian. 
Beethoven had written dramatic movements like in the c minor piano trio, the Pathetique sonata, passionate slow movements like in op.10/3 or op.18/1 before. Also more exposed woodwind solos in the C major piano concerto, e.g. clarinet in the slow movement. He decided to have nothing of this in his first symphony in favor of a short humorous piece.


----------



## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I argue that it is his most balanced work, and reflects a steady mindset where all too often he is turbulent.
> 
> (esp the first mvt., I'm not as familiar with the rest of it).


I will strictly adhere to the OPs question.

DISAGREE


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mparta said:


> I don't know how to get to the best or better part, but I love the last movement of the 1st disproportionately. I really think it's important that I know all these works for so long and have no idea what the best is, they are so fundamental to the way my brain hears music. I feel grateful that I've had all these years with Beethoven and I marvel and sort of mourn for the big part of the world that doesn't have this.
> There's a little ascending scamper in thirds in the strings in the last movement of the first that just makes the heavens open when done well.
> I see the point about the 4th also, some of the same impetus and really tough to play, so when a great orchestra gets it right, sparks fly!!


I do enjoy the 1st, wonderful work!! and the finale is my favorite mvt...it's just that the great symphonic genius of Beethoven begins to emerge with the 2nd, and hits full stride with #3 onward...
I've played them all, many times and I still love them, even #5, which I believe I've performed more than any other symphony - #7?? Brahms 2?? Dvorak 9??


----------



## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I argue that it is his most balanced work, and reflects a steady mindset where all too often he is turbulent.
> 
> (esp the first mvt., I'm not as familiar with the rest of it).


If you feel that way, that's fine. Personally my favorite Beethoven symphony is his much- maligned-or-ignored eighth.


----------



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

I agree. His First Symphony is indeed the greatest. I mean first in reverse chronological order.


----------



## KevinJS (Sep 24, 2021)

Haven’t heard 1, 2 or 4 enough to be able to make a meaningful contribution to this thread, so I’ve set up a playlist for tonight’s drive, consisting of Daniel Barenboim’s recordings of the 9 symphonies with the Staatskapelle Berlin. 

Should help to keep me awake, if nothing else.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I disagree, even if I acknowledge that it's a very good first symphony. I don't think that Beethoven has any symphony that is less than great, yet the first is my least liked by him at this moment.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Nope, his 4 and 7th. Next question .


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

MarkW said:


> I enjoy it immensely (as did my son, who was a violinist, when they played it in High School). But the Eroica is still his greatest.


The Eroica is the last orchestral piece I saw live.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I guess all I'm really trying to say with this thread is, I really love the first symphony and think it deserves more respect than it has.


----------



## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

No way. A very good symphony from the great man of course, but later ones are greater marvels. Eroica, Pastoral, the 9th, the 7th, the 5th...even the 2nd, 4th and 8th are higher in my esteem than the 1st.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I think it's a good gateway into Beethoven.


----------



## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*Thread: Agree/Disagree: Beethoven Symph 1 is His Best*

I agree. The First certainly _was_ his best, at least until he wrote the Second....

I remain an avid fan of Beethoven's First Symphony and probably have listened to it most of all the symphonies, with a possible exception of the Fifth. And though I enjoy the early symphony immensely I would not want to be without any of the Nine, and so find picking a "best" somewhat absurd.

The Ninth Symphony has the "best" choral part.
The Sixth Symphony has the "best" bird imitations.
The Fifth Symphony has the "best" four-note-motif theme.
The Third Symphony has the "best" funeral march.
The First has the "best" low number when listing the Symphonies by chronological written order.
Etc.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Nonetheless, Beethoven wrote my favorite symphonies and piano sonatas, my two favorite genres. Move over Mozart! You're my enemy again, .


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I guess all I'm really trying to say with this thread is, I really love the first symphony and think it deserves more respect than it has.


How do you quantify the amount of respect it gets, and what level should it attain to satisfy you that it has enough?

I think it's clear that it has plenty of "respect" from those posting here...just that most think other symphonies are better (and deserve more).


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Forster said:


> How do you quantify the amount of respect it gets, and what level should it attain to satisfy you that it has enough?
> 
> I think it's clear that it has plenty of "respect" from those posting here...just that most think other symphonies are better (and deserve more).


Certainly to be scientific about it we'd need to run stats, but if we were talking generally, which is all we are capable of on this forum, I'd say it is on the lower end of receiving the respect it deserves.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I suppose a good poll to run would be, "Do you respect Beeth's first symphony"?


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I think it's a good gateway into Beethoven.


It is a good gateway piece, but Beethoven has a lot of good gateway pieces.


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Certainly to be scientific about it we'd need to run stats, but if we were talking generally, which is all we are capable of on this forum, I'd say it is on the lower end of receiving the respect it deserves.


I'd say it's at the lower end of the respect continuum because it's at the lower end of the worth of his symphonies. The 3rd and 9th repeatedly come up at the higher end, and I see no reason why the 1st should be up there with them.

But as you might see from my other posts about AD, I'm in mathematical mood, and it's not really relevant to music.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

ORigel said:


> It is a good gateway piece, but Beethoven has a lot of good gateway pieces.


Moonlight. Fur Elise. To name a couple!


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I suppose a good poll to run would be, "Do you respect Beeth's first symphony"?


I do respect it, but I respect Symphonies 3-9 even more (I do not comprehend No. 2 yet).


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Nonetheless, Beethoven wrote my favorite symphonies and piano sonatas, my two favorite genres. Move over Mozart! You're my enemy again, .


How do you like the string quartets? There are his almost symphonic Razumovskies (I love the slow movement of Raz. No. 3.) And the first movement of Op 127 is a good gateway into the soundworld of his late quartets.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

ORigel said:


> How do you like the string quartets? There are his almost symphonic Razumovskies (I love the slow movement of Raz. No. 3.) And the first movement of Op 127 is a good gateway into the soundworld of his late quartets.


I haven't spent as much time with them, but they are compelling.  I haven't let them sit with me long enough to decide if the genre is for me or not. I think I'll put them on now!


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Mozart has clouded my view of the String Quartet, Beethoven's are just filled with so much more depth and intricacy to my ears.


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Mozart *has clouded my view *of the String Quartet, Beethoven's are just filled with so much more depth and intricacy to my ears.


Yes. I am sure Mozart was the cause of this.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

trazom said:


> Yes. I am sure Mozart was the cause of this.


I think my favorite thing Mozart composed is Jupiter.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Of course, Beethoven 1 is not his greatest work but it is - like all his symphonies to me - a great work. I do greatly like a lot of early Beethoven (I feel that if he had died before writing the Eroica we would still consider him as a great composer) but don't think to _compare _it with his later works. Rather, I find it fascinating to hear Beethoven's voice coming over strongly in a work that is still not that far from the world of Mozart. Perhaps of all composers his development over his life is the easiest to track, partly because he wrote a lot of truly great music during his "first period" as well as later.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> Of course, Beethoven 1 is not his greatest work but it is - like all his symphonies to me - a great work. I do greatly like a lot of early Beethoven (I feel that if he had died before writing the Eroica we would still consider him as a great composer) but don't think to _compare _it with his later works. Rather, I find it fascinating to hear Beethoven's voice coming over strongly in a work that is still not that far from the world of Mozart. Perhaps of all composers his development over his life is the easiest to track, partly because he wrote a lot of truly great music during his "first period" as well as later.


I agree 100%, thank you.


----------



## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I actually do not think the the 1st is a great way to get to know Beethoven. 
There are reasons why the more picturesque or "romantic" symphonies like 5 and 6 are considerably more popular. The 1st is a peculiar Beethovenian take on Haydn's and Mozart's late symphonies, not as immediately appealing and requiring both some familiariy with the predecessors as well as attention to detail. Whereas in most of the later symphonies (except 4 and 8) one can just get carried away in a broad sweep. 
However, if a slightly more experienced listener wants to get into details, the 1st is a great piece because it's fairly short and has from our viewpoint rather subtle deviations from conventions (compared to the many unique, very unconventional features of e.g. the Eroica) that often need to be pointed out explicitly but this help one to learn more detailed listening.


----------



## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Nonetheless, Beethoven wrote my favorite symphonies and piano sonatas, my two favorite genres. Move over Mozart! You're my enemy again, .


Couldn't you enjoy or at least respect both? One doesn't need to dislike apples in order to like oranges.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Xisten267 said:


> Couldn't you enjoy or at least respect both? One doesn't need to dislike apples in order to like oranges.


Definitely. I'm just looking for my new favorite artist. I like the idea of being aware of lots of music, but have my preferences.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I like how simple and elegant Mozart is, I think the reason I like Beeth's first so much is because it is so Classical in style.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Definitely. I'm just looking for my new favorite artist. I like the idea of being aware of lots of music, but have my preferences.


If they keep changing they are not preferences - they are moods. But you probably know that.


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> If they keep changing they are not preferences - they are moods. But you probably know that.


Yes, and it all depends on my perception. I'm looking for my sense of life in art, and philosophy towards life.


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Like many others have said, I don't regard it as his greatest symphony (nothing will ever surpass the 7th IMO) but it's still a great one. I prefer the majority of the other symphonies but they're all wonderful works. For me, the weakest by far is the 2nd symphony.


----------



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

I love all of Beethoven's symphonies and the 1st is a wonderful work but I would put it second last, just ahead of the 6th.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Captainnumber36 said:


> Yes, and it all depends on my perception. I'm looking for my sense of life in art, and philosophy towards life.


I would venture that Beethoven is the most life-affirming composer who ever lived.


----------



## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

Heck148 said:


> !! Hmmm....the 4th is really excellent, quite original, and probably, technically, the most difficult.


For bassoon players YES!!!. I still can not play that lick in the fourth movement.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I listened to the first and second symphonies while driving, because of this thread.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Merl said:


> Like many others have said, I don't regard it as his greatest symphony (nothing will ever surpass the 7th IMO) but it's still a great one. I prefer the majority of the other symphonies but they're all wonderful works. For me, the weakest by far is the 2nd symphony.


The Second Symphony is more ambitious than his First, but less memorable IMO.


----------



## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

I love the 1st, and according to historical sources, the 1st was Beethoven's most popular symphony during his lifetime. I've performed the 1st both as a hornist and a conductor with our local symphony.

However, the term "best" only applies to the 1st if by "best" you mean "composed in the classical symphonic aesthetic pioneered by Haydn".

The beauty of Beethoven's symphonies is that all nine are completely self-referential works. Yes, all nine are loosely based on classical period forms, but Beethoven's 5th (for example) ONLY sounds like Beethoven's 5th.

Beethoven's 1st is the symphony closest to the Haydn model, but it has enough harmonic innovations and structural qwerks to mark it as Beethoven's own. I personally place it on the same level as Haydn's London dozen and Mozart's last three.

It's a great symphony, one of my favorites from any composer, but in terms of "best", I'd argue for one of the others.

If anyone wants a formal analysis for Beethoven's 1st, I've done one on my blog here:

http://somethingclassical.blogspot.com/p/beethoven-symphony-1.html


----------



## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

ORigel said:


> The Second Symphony is more ambitious than his First, but less memorable IMO.


It's the comedy section (Tom and Jerry chasing) that makes it memorable for me. It sounds like Beethoven sending up Rossini. In this performance, about 3:30


----------



## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

I find all the themes of the 2nd memorable.


----------



## Jay (Jul 21, 2014)

MarkW said:


> the Eroica is still his greatest.


Agreed.........


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




----------



## sibylla (Jun 13, 2021)

It has one of his masterful gambits on seperation between dynamics and phrasing.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Captainnumber36 said:


> I guess all I'm really trying to say with this thread is, I really love the first symphony and think it deserves more respect than it has.


No. 1 is excellent.

I think the reason it gets the cold shoulder is that his 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th symphonies simply left THAT excellent symphony in the dust. No. 1 was Classic, whereas the 3rd through the 9th pretty much invented the Romantic era.

But you can stand No. 1 right up alongside any symphony from Mozart or Haydn and it's a nice comfortable fit.


----------



## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

pianozach said:


> No. 1 is excellent.
> 
> I think the reason it gets the cold shoulder is that his 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th symphonies simply left THAT excellent symphony in the dust. No. 1 was Classic, whereas the 3rd through the 9th pretty much invented the Romantic era.
> 
> But you can stand No. 1 right up alongside any symphony from Mozart or Haydn and it's a nice comfortable fit.


If Beethoven wrote ONLY that symphony, that symphony would be popular today. Same if the single symphony was the Second, Fourth, or Eighth.


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> I think Beethoven is "holding back" to some extent in the 1st symphony. I seem to recall that even the scoring was originally without clarinets (like in the B flat major pc). It is a rather concentrated witty piece and it does have some excentricities like the beginning that was already mentioned above with the "wrong key" and woodwinds dominating the strings in that introduction but e.g. the funny intro for the finale is more Haydnesque humor than Beethovenian.


I agree that it was his "humble beginning". I think that intro is actually a series of applied dominants "V7/IV... IV! V7... vi! V7/V...... V!" in the "right key". There are non-tonic beginnings in the music of his predecessors as well.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I'd say it takes a particular ear to like Beethoven's First Symphony above the other eight. In that regard I think it probably says more about the listener than the music.

I always thought the Second Symphony more original, more well-balanced, with equally classic lines as the First Symphony.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

larold said:


> I'd say it takes a particular ear to like Beethoven's First Symphony above the other eight. In that regard I think it probably says more about the listener than the music.
> 
> I always thought the Second Symphony more original, more well-balanced, with equally classic lines as the First Symphony.


I think that Beethoven really knew what he was doing. That First Symphony was very much a "traditional" symphony, although there are moments that were somewhat unconventional at the time.

It solidly introduced him as a Symphony composer, which made the interesting Second Symphony just a bit more out-of-the-box, yet still standing firmly within it.

His reputation and credentials secure, he unleashed the brilliant Eroica Symphony on the world.


----------



## vtpoet (Jan 17, 2019)

I haven't read the other posts in this thread, but anyone asserting Beethoven's first was his best as an objective/artistic matter probably represents a vanishingly small and fringe view. As a subjective matter, audiences like what they like, and I'm sure there are many, preferring the classical to the romantic, who would rather hear Beethoven's Mozart/Haydnesque first symphony than his others.


----------



## Eriks (Oct 10, 2021)

Disagree, but it’s still a great classical symphony.


----------

