# Question on Karajan's '63 Beethoven set..........



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

How many times has this set been remastered,
and what remasters are used in which sets?
Kind of confusing to me. 
Thanks :tiphat:


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm trying to find it, Itullian, but this conversation has been on here before. I'll link you if I find it. I did find this that I posted some time ago on the topic.



Merl said:


> .............I have the set below and it is a 20-bit remaster and sounds great.
> 
> View attachment 127113
> 
> ...


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## Helgi (Dec 27, 2019)

What about the SACD issue with green and purple shapes on the cover, I have it in my head from somewhere that that's the best one (?)


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Helgi said:


> What about the SACD issue with green and purple shapes on the cover, I have it in my head from somewhere that that's the best one (?)


This (I believe) is the latest SACD release but tbh I haven't heard it. Allegedly it's had a further remaster and has been 'enhanced' (what does that mean?) for the SACD but I don't know how it sounds. How many times can you remaster a disc? There's also a bonus disc with rehearsals (wow!). Could we cynical suggest that this is another DG money-making exercise?


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

I'd argue the Blu-ray Audio edition is the best sound. It's certainly the most recent remaster, done at Emil Berliner Studios. You can still find it in the single B-rA disc version for a decent price. But there is also one with CDs included, and I don't know which master that is, I assume the most recent one, but that hasn't always been the case with the CDs included with the B-rA editions.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8120947--beethoven-symphonies-nos-1-9


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## apricissimus (May 15, 2013)

When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"


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## Knorf (Jan 16, 2020)

apricissimus said:


> When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"


I don't disagree. But the Karajan Blu-ray editions really are something special.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Merl said:


> I'm trying to find it, Itullian, but this conversation has been on here before. I'll link you if I find it. I did find this that I posted some time ago on the topic.


That Collectors Edition set sounds terrible. It has been stripped of its warmth and bass.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Anyone know what remaster the cds are in this blu ray / cd recent issue?


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Itullian said:


> That Collectors Edition set sounds terrible. It has been stripped of its warmth and bass.


That's why I ended up getting the Complete Beethoven vol1 box version. It's wayyyyy better. That Collectors Edition has terrible reviews, all complaining about the sound.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

apricissimus said:


> When sets like this, or classic old albums (Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue" comes to mind), are endlessly remastered, it's just a marketing thing, I think. Like, "The first nine remasters were ****. What you really need is the tenth!"


I have four different masterings of KOB (more than I have of any other recording). Three of them are hi-rez - one is multi-channel (three channels like some of the Living Stereo releases). The latest does not necessarily sound better than the earlier ones - a subjective matter in any event - but they all do sound different. I've read some endless debates on "which KOB" on other forums.

I also have the pictured SACD set of Karajan's cycle. Sounded better than the set I previously had and disposed of. I don't rip Blu-Rays, and I do rip the hi-rez layers of my SACDs, so I'll stand pat.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Knorf said:


> I'd argue the Blu-ray Audio edition is the best sound. It's certainly the most recent remaster, done at Emil Berliner Studios. You can still find it in the single B-rA disc version for a decent price. But there is also one with CDs included, and I don't know which master that is, I assume the most recent one, but that hasn't always been the case with the CDs included with the B-rA editions.
> 
> https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8120947--beethoven-symphonies-nos-1-9


Sounds fine to me!

Funny but when it first was mooted DG were taking a huge financial risk in producing and marketing the set. It was the first set of its kind to be sold as a set at full price which was a small fortune in those days. Of course, a million copies later.....


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## Bourdon (Jan 4, 2019)

DavidA said:


> Sounds fine to me!
> 
> Funny but when it first was mooted DG were taking a huge financial risk in producing and marketing the set. It was the first set of its kind to be sold as a set at full price which was a small fortune in those days. Of course, a million copies later.....


If you bought LPs separately, a seal was included in the beginning. With a few of these stamps you could get the cassette, that's what I did.
The fifth from this set was my first classic LP and I had to save a few weeks to buy it because I immediately wanted the best I could find.
I have now the sacd edition wich sounds noticeable better than my old LP's


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## regnaDkciN (May 24, 2011)

Merl said:


> This (I believe) is the latest SACD release but tbh I haven't heard it. Allegedly it's had a further remaster and has been 'enhanced' (what does that mean?) for the SACD but I don't know how it sounds. How many times can you remaster a disc? There's also a bonus disc with rehearsals (wow!). Could we cynical suggest that this is another DG money-making exercise?
> 
> View attachment 136582


That "latest" SACD release is from the early 2000s. As far as I know, it's a conversion of the 24/96 Emil Berliner mastering job (all DG album masters were resampled in the late 1990s for archival purposes) to DSD. I have no idea if they played around with the sound while they were at it, but this SACD set is from quite a while before the current Blu-Ray Audio release.


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