# Some Great Lesser Known Symphonies You Should Hear



## superhorn

The great symphonies of Mozart,Haydn,Beethoven,Schubert,Schumann, Mendelssohn,Brahms,Dvorak,Tchaikovsky, etc are staples of the repertoire and have been recorded countless times,but there are some less familiar symphonies people should get to know if they are already familiar with the basics.

For example: The first six symphonies of Dvorak,which are rarely performed ,and are
chock full of meloic invention and radiant lyricism. The New World and nos 7 and 8 are very familiar, but no one who loves them should miss the first six. There are excelent recordings by Rafael Kubelik, Istvan Kertesz,Witold Rowici, Libor Pesek,Vaclav Neumann and others.

Paul Dukas: Symphony in C: There's more to this composer of the Sorcerer's Apprentice than you might realize. His one surviving symphony will make you wonder where it's been all your life.

Mly Balakirev: (1837-1910). Balakirev was one of the most important and influential figures in 19th century Russian music, but for some reason,his music never achieved the fame of the works of Tchaikovsky,Rimsky-Korsakov,Mussorgsky and Borodin. 

Try his melodious symphony no 1 in C. It has both the flavor of Russian folk music and the exotic non-russian parts of the former Soviet Union. You'll love it. This composer died 100 years ago. Why isn't his music receiving more attention?

Franz Berwald (1796-1868). Berwald is probably the best known composer of Sweden. His highly original and quirky music has had a fair number of recordings, but you almost never hear his music live. What a pity. It's somewhat like Mendelssohn, but much quirkier and unpredicatble.
His four symphonies have been recorded by Neeme Jarvi, Herbert Blomsted,Okko Kamu, and other conductors. Berwald's music sparkles!

Albert Roussel: This great French composer,who lived from 1869 to 1937, has unfortunately been 
overshadowed by his contemporaries Debussy and Ravel. But he was his own man, and wasn't really an impressionist at all, although his music is very colorful.
He wrote four symphonies, of which the best known is the third, but all are very much worth hearing. 
His music is much more vigorous, earthy and straightforward than Debussy anbd Ravel's, and full of pounding rhythms and pungent harmonies. 
Try the recordings by Stephane Deneve on Naxos, or those of Yan Pacal Tortelier and Neeme Jarvi on Chandos, or Marek Janowski and Charles Dutoit.

Wilhelm Stenhammar: This fine Swedish composer lived from 1871 to 1928 and has sometimes been called the "Swedish Brahms". His music is melodious and beautifully crafted .
His two symphonies are gorgeous. Try the recordings of Neeme Jarvi.

Franz Schmidt: This Austrian composer lived from 1874 to 1939, and wrote music in a ripe late romantic style of his own. He studied with Bruckner as a young man.
His four symphonies are also gorgeous . There is a complete set on Chandos with Jarvi.

This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. There's a lot more to explore.


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## World Violist

Another Dukas work that deserves to be much better-known is La Peri, his last work. It's a wonderful ballet, with a rather impressive (and somewhat well-known in the band world) fanfare at the beginning; but the next 20 minutes are pure heaven.

One of my absolute favorite sets of symphonies is that of Edmund Rubbra. There is something distinctly personal about these symphonies, from form to harmonic language to orchestration. There is a marvelous set of recordings by the late Richard Hickox.


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## Art Rock

Schmidt and Roussel, definitely.

Also the Asrael symphony by Suk.


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## Aramis

Me would add:

Szymanowski: symphonies No. 1 and No. 2 (3rd and 4th are... not totally forgotten?). These are works written more in spirit of Richard Strauss by which he was influenced as a younger composer, but in fact they are not similiar to anything else but Szymanowski. He personally prefered No. 2. It's one of few symphonies from that period that include real fugue. I think so. That it's one of few. I may be wrong, but my faith is strong. 

Hugo Alfven: No. 1 is good for beginning, but more demanding and experienced listeners should go for more mature ones like 3rd. All of them are solid neo-romantic symphonies closely related to scandinavian style. 

Scriabin: Symphony No. 2 is more conventional than two famous Poems but it's hot. 

RUED LANGGAARD  perhaps the greatest of all forgotten symphonists from first half of XXth century. Didn't you hear his music? What the hell did you do all your life? Get CHANDOS set or something and don't back until you will embrace his splendor. 

Arnold Bax: Good stuff, said enough, yo. I disrecommend set with green cover. It's beautiful cover but the recording sucks. Get the scottish conductor thing, Bryden Thomson was his name I think.


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## Bobotox

*Joachim Raff*: His 11 symphonies are the most addicting I heard of any composer. I heard each one about a dozen times and never gets boring. The ones I would recommend would be his 3rd symphony. This one was a colossal success at the time and dubbed a masterpiece. His 5th is even better. The first movement has a theme that will be impossible to forget upon first hearing. His last for he wrote were for the seasons, all of which are very memorable. You can't get enough of this guy.

*Franz Lachner*: He wrote 8 symphonies, of which only 3 are recorded. His 5th won some prestigious prize at the time. It is lengthy but I keep coming back to it. I would love to hear his 6th symphony since Schumann said it to be "twice as good as his 5th", and believe me, his 5th is excellent.

*Anton Rubinstein*: This Russian wrote 6 symphonies with his 2nd being most famous. The one i would recommend would be his 4th and 5th.


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## Huilunsoittaja

For me:

Kalinnikov: Symphonies 1 & 2. Some said he would be the next Tchaikovsky, but he died young. He indeed has an original tone, and distinctively Russian. Not many recordings, mostly by Russian groups.

Glazunov: the 9 Symphonies (or, 8 and a 1/4). Just lovely stuff. Romantic, Russian, sensible, nostalgic, incredibly sincere, highly entertaining scherzos, what else would you want? I suggest the 3rd, 4th and 5th symphonies, which are his best, the 4th is my favorite. Suggested recordings are with _Jose Serebrier_, Neeme Jarvi, and Evgeny Svetlanov.


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## Weston

superhorn said:


> This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. There's a lot more to explore.


Nice post. You put a lot of effort into this. I haven't heard the Balakirev or the Berwald symphonies that I recall. I'll have to look them up. The others are all great choices, especially the Roussel symphonies of which I only have No. 2. I have heard No. 3 on the radio however. The Stenhammar No. 2 is great. It is coupled with "Excelsior!" on Naxos which I acquired based on the name alone. I did not regret it.

Of course I have at least a couple to add. *Gliere's *Symphony No. 3, 'Il'ya Muromets' is full of soaring beautiful melodies that I'm surprised are not more popular. Maybe he is considered too traditional.

Also just today I was listening to *Rautavaara's* Symphony No. 8, mostly as background music, not really focusing. Movement 4 held me riveted however. About 1/3 of the way through there are soaring sonorities in the violins playing in the upper register a very melodic passage -- except they aren't exactly sonorities at all. More like dissonance. I backed the player up a bit and listened again, trying to determine if these were microtones, that is, if part of the strings were detuned slightly on purpose, or if it is simply a half step dissonance. But not all the strings do this I think - just a few. So it gives it a mysterious detuned atmospheric feeling while remaining gorgeously melodic enough to hum in the shower. The effect is repeated later on, about halfway through the movement, perhaps in the violas this time for an even more profound effect. I've never heard anything like it, and I hope someone knows what is happening in those sections. I hope to spend more time with this piece this weekend.


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## Sid James

A composer whose disc I bought in the bargain bin of a classical cd shop here in Sydney was the Israeli *Josef Tal*. All of his symphonies are on cpo (two seperate discs - I got the first one). His music has elements of atonality, but freely applied, and some of it sounds very "Jewish" - a bit like Ernest Bloch combined with the second Viennese school. His orchestration sounds pretty good as well.

Speaking of orchestration, I really like the symphonies of *Lutoslawski*. I've got the 2nd and 3rd so far. The 2nd sounds more avant-garde, here his use of chance elements is quite obvious. The 3rd quotes the first movement theme of Beethoven's 5th symphony, but it is "hidden" (for example, Lutoslawski starts off by rapidly firing off Beethoven's 4 note theme, but you have to listen carefully to pick it up).

Another Pole, *Penderecki*, has also written some fine symphonies. I've got the 1st, 3rd & 8th. The 1st is the most "radical" of the set, it's all about texture and colour. I really like it how he begins (and ends) with the rhythm provided by an orchestral whip. The 3rd does not grab me as much, it is kind of neo Romantic, as is the 8th, which uses vocal soloists and choir, in the tradition of Mahler.

The Mexican *Chavez *was also a very fine symphonist. His cycle of 6 is definitely among the best produced on the American continent. The 1st, 2nd & 4th are the easiest to get into, they are basically monothematic (the first two are in one movement). The 1st is after the Greek tragedy of Antigone, and is quite dramatic and dark, and uses ancient Greek modes. The 2nd, _Sinfonia India_, uses traditional Mexican idioms. It reminds me of music in old American cowboy films. The first movement of the 4th, called _Sinfonia Romantica_, reminds me of the big open air sound of Copland, and the slow movement has a Brucknerian gracefulness. I've basically understood these, but the others (3, 5, 6) are harder to get my head around. He seems to build up themes from virtually nothing, and his counterpoint is pretty complex. I have the LSO conducted by the late Eduardo Mata, which is a good recording, but Chavez's own recordings had this earthiness and grittiness which I liked as well.


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## TresPicos

I see Berwald, Stenhammar and Alfvén being mentioned. My favorite Swedish symphonies were written by Lindblad and Peterson-Berger.

A F *Lindblad* was sometimes called the "Swedish Schubert", due to his many songs, but it actually fits in with his two symphonies as well. Written in 1831 and 1855, they met the same cold reception as Berwald's symphonies, which really says more about the semi-retarded music climate in 19th century Sweden. But the first one was conducted by Mendelssohn in Leipzig and highly appreciated by Schumann. To me, the two symphonies sound like Schubert's 14th and 22nd symphonies, or even like Mozart's 89th and 112th. 










Wilhelm *Peterson-Berger* is known for two things, being a grumpy music critic and writing a popular collection of lyrical piano pieces, called Frösöblomster. He is, together with Alfvén and Stenhammar, part of the national romantic era. Symphonies was not his forte, but he wrote five of them, and I really like his 2nd, "Sunnanfärd", which is a dreamed voyage down to Greece and back.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

Definitely recommend *Glier's First* and *Arensky's First* symphonies: great Russian Romanticism.

*Vierne* and *Chausson* each wrote a single symphony worth exploring.

*Magnard* and *Tournemire* wrote four and more mysterious symphonies.


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## Falstaft

I'm learning a lot from this thread of what I should be buying!

I'll put my two cents in for

*Georges Onslow*: I'm not really a huge fan of his works, but his symphonies are certainly unfairly neglected (which is to say very few people have even heard of him). Usually a pretty decorous composer, but there are moments of Beethovenian fire and impropriety (consider the bumptious scherzo of the 4th).

*Kurt Atterberg* - Just finished to listening pretty thoroughly to all nine symphonies in the CPO set and give this Swedish uber-late romantic my highest recommendation. There are some brief lapses in taste, but overall this is some of the most accessible, thrilling and giftedly melodious music I've heard in a long time. His slow movements in particular are gorgeous, esp. in Symphonies 2, 3, 4, and 7. The Ninth, which I've been listening repeatedly to in the past couple of days, is a very different animal -- basically a cantata for two soloists and chorus giving a shaved down treatment of the Poetic Edda. If anynone likes the Norns' scene from Gotterdammerung, you'll be watering at the mouth at this.

*Bohuslav Martinu*: Taking a bit more time to fully absorb his extremely impressive symphonies, but so far it's paid off. The 1st and 2nd are riveting. The first two movements of the 1st are irresistibly propulsive and maniacally inventive in their use of orchestral color.

*Antonin Dvorak*: OP had it right, his complete symphonies are well worth the investment. The Sixth has recently become my favorite symphony of his after the Ninth - that Furiant is worth the price of admission alone.

*Per Norgard*: Don't know his complete works, but the Symphony #2 is very unusual, organically constructed from a rather idiosyncratic conception of pitch and rhythm, from what I gauge.

*Rued Langgaard*: I'm having *such* a hard time not going on amazon and purchasing the complete set of his symphonies. I have recordings of 1-6 and they are like nothing else in my collection. Parts of 2 and 3 are rapturously beautiful, and the entirety of 4 is like some weird dream (just look at some of the sectional headings). I get the sense that ol' Rued approached each symphony as if it were a totally different animal requiring different formal and programmatic conception than the last. I will break down soon and buy the whole set, if only to hear his "Ixion" symphony!


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## Rasa

For me, a rather hidden perl is César Franck's symphony in D.


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## tahnak

I Have the Dvorak symphonies set of Istvan Kertesz and both the symphonies of Balakirev.
Will listen to Dukas' symphony if I can get it.


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## tahnak

Sebastien Melmoth said:


> Definitely recommend *Glier's First* and *Arensky's First* symphonies: great Russian Romanticism.
> 
> *Vierne* and *Chausson* each wrote a single symphony worth exploring.
> 
> *Magnard* and *Tournemire* wrote four and more mysterious symphonies.


I have Arensky two symphonies.


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## emiellucifuge

Doing my best not to repeat:

Holmboe
Aho
Alwyn
Atterberg
Gade
Maslanka
Bantock
Mennin
Shchedrin
Cyril Scott


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## TWhite

Dvorak's Sixth, in D Major has fast become my favorite of the Dvorak symphonies, even eclipsing No. Eight, which I thought would NEVER happen, LOL! I have heard that Dvorak wrote it as a 'thank you' to Brahms, for being instrumental in getting Dvorak a contract with Brahms' own publisher Simrock. 

At any rate, there are some Brahmsian influences in the work, but all in all, it's just pure Dvorak. And as another poster mentioned: the Furiant by itself is worth the price of admission to this delightful work. 

Several others: Kalinnikov's First Symphony--very Russian, very fascinating. 

Glazunov: Fifth Symphony. It has a very spectacular 'drums and trumpets' finale. 

Walton's First Symphony: Not as often heard as it used to be, but a monumental work from one of my very favorite British composers. 

Tom


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## elgar's ghost

Hi all.

This is a blatant plug for Soviet composer Mikhail Nosyrev. He wrote 4 symphonies between 1965 and 1980 (fine works with pungent traces of moderns like DSCH and Prokofiev as well as more traditional elements) AFTER he spent 10 years in a Gulag on trumped-up charges while he was a young violinist in an ad-hoc Leningrad orchestra during the WWII siege - the sentence was originally death by firing squad. After release in 1953 he spent many years as a provincial conductor and part-time composer in what amounted to internal exile. He was only totally rehabilitated in 1989, 8 years after his death aged 57. He may not have been a composer from the absolute top-drawer but his long ordeal certainly infused his works with Shostakovichian elements of irony and tragedy and deserve to be heard. It was Shostakovich who in 1967 actually endorsed Nosyrev's joining the Soviet Composers Union after he was initially rejected. His son remarked that if DSCH's music represented what it was like to experience the THREAT of arrest then his father's works depicted what it was like AFTER being arrested. These and other works were originally available on 5 Olympia discs - I imagine more of his works would have been recorded had Olympia


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## bassClef

I second the nominations for the symphonies of *Albert Roussel*, *Josef Suk* and *Mily Balakirev*

Some more :
*Lars Erik Larsson* - Symphony # 3 in C minor
*Carl Vine* - his 6 symphonies are all terrific but my favourite is symphony 4.2 (yes 4.2)
*Dag Wiren* - Symphony # 4
*Zdenek Fibich* - Symphony # 3
*Pavel Vranicky* - Symphony in C minor


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## Falstaft

This seems like as opportune a place as any to plug a blog my colleague and I just started: Unsung Symphonies: http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/

Inspired in large part by threads like this which show how much repertoire is out there but underexposed, we're trying to give some much needed attention to the world of symphonies outside the main candidates. The focus right now is on 20th century works, but we'll likely expand once (or if!) the blog gets on its feet. Right now we've talked about Walter Piston's 3rd and Per Norgard's 2nd. And we keep the tone light, as you'll probably find out immediately!


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## Aramis

Falstaft said:


> This seems like as opportune a place as any to plug a blog my colleague and I just started: Unsung Symphonies: http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/
> 
> Inspired in large part by threads like this which show how much repertoire is out there but underexposed, we're trying to give some much needed attention to the world of symphonies outside the main candidates. The focus right now is on 20th century works, but we'll likely expand once (or if!) the blog gets on its feet. Right now we've talked about Walter Piston's 3rd and Per Norgard's 2nd. And we keep the tone light, as you'll probably find out immediately!


I added this site to my faves and I shall follow updates.


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## Weston

Falstaft said:


> This seems like as opportune a place as any to plug a blog my colleague and I just started: Unsung Symphonies: http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/


Got it bookmarked. thank you.


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## Falstaft

Thanks guys. And rest assured Aramis, Langgaard will get his due!


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## Bix

Falstaft said:


> This seems like as opportune a place as any to plug a blog my colleague and I just started: Unsung Symphonies: http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/


thanks for this Falstaft


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## Guest

I just discovered Roussel and I'm completely stunned that he isn't performed more. His symphonies, especially no. 3, are absolutely fantastic (as are those of one of his more famous students, Martinu).

Other guys whose symphonies should be heard are: *Roy Harris* (you must check out his 3rd!), *Douglas Lilburn*, *Karol Szymanowksi*, *William Schuman* (not to be confused with Robert), *William Grant Still*, *Alan Hovhaness* (Mysterious Mountain is excellent), *David Diamond*, *Arthur Honegger* (the opening to his 5th will knock you out of your socks), *Randall Thompson* (not many recordings of his unjustly neglected 3 symphonies), *Eduard Tubin* (particularly no. 4), and *George Dyson* (only did one, but if you like Sibelius then check it out).


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## JSK

Louise Farrenc
Nicolai Rimsky-Korsakov


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## MattTheTubaGuy

Lilburn. he wrote 3 symphonies. He is a cross between Sibelius and Vaughan Williams.
(I am a New Zealander myself)


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## gmt

A few Nordic & Baltic suggestions I made on another forum...

*Stenhammar*: indeed! No. 2 - outwardly more traditional than either Sibelius or Nielsen, who were his friends, but with boundless depth, dozens of repeated hearings cannot exhaust this score. Wonderful slow part in the footsteps of Beethoven's 7th.

*Rosenberg*: No. 4 - more of an oratorio but with intensely symphonic writing. Miraculous oboe solo. Written in 1940, a real work of love and light amidst darkness.

*Valen*: No. 3 - melancholy, solitary music, demands concentration but the rewards are there, fervent music, perfect melodic lines, counterpoint with a beating heart.

*Tubin*: No. 8 - one feels more of the craftsman here than in Holmboe, and what beautiful craft that is. No. 8 is less striking than No. 6 but reaches the apex of mystery, nightly sparks, formal elegance. Tubin was a master of endings and this has one of the most magical of all.

*Holmboe*: No. 11 - less spectacular than No. 8 but maybe even more perfect: mesmerizing beauty blending melody, harmony and timbres, smotth and penetrating light, with the author's ever impressive formal mastery.

*Pettersson*: No. 13 - as another poster said, one could hesitate with Dante-like No. 9, another giant one-movement symphony. I shall go for the 13th because of its wonderful lyrical islands, the vibrant, almost childlike emotion which can also be found in the 2nd violin concerto.

*Kenins*: No. 6 - also one of the best Canadian symphonies, a pristine example of Kenins's recreation of the old patterns, here a Bach fugue. The veiled, ghostly textures of the central part are heartbreaking.

*Nørgård*: No. 3 - demonstrates how triads and harmonic infinity series can actually generate the most complex structures. A scintillating work which really makes you "touch" the celestial spheres, marvellous without being simplistic or even comfortable.

*Balakauskas*: No. 5 - best synthesis to date of his orchestral universe, a sensual blend of the vivid, daring colours of his more modernist years (e.g. Symphony No. 2) and the more expansive, serene lyricism of his more recent works.


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## afterpostjack

Ottorino Respighi, I love his Sinfonia Drammatica.


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## Falstaft

I discovered a recording of Gloria Coates's Second and 9th Symphonies while browsing the music library the other day and was very impressed by what I've heard. Her 2nd is subtitled "Illuminatio in Tenebris" and presents some very ominous impressions of the northern lights, like another piece I love Tviett's 4nd Piano Concerto. As for the ninth, aka "Homage to Van Gogh," might I suggest you check out my blog Unsung Symphonies to discover some of its strange secrets. :trp: (tooting own horn)

http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/


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## tgtr0660

You are really missing the world by not exploring American symphonists the like of Schuman, Diamond, Roger Sessions, Piston, Harris. Everything is not just minimalism in the States! Also, though famous composers, their symphonies haven't achieved the same fame (though in the second case that's starting to change): Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein. The great conductor's three symphonies are little masterpieces on their own right, specially his second "Age of Anxiety" and his third "Kaddish".


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## Comus

tgtr0660 said:


> You are really missing the world by not exploring American symphonists the like of Schuman, Diamond, Roger Sessions, Piston, Harris. Everything is not just minimalism in the States! Also, though famous composers, their symphonies haven't achieved the same fame (though in the second case that's starting to change): Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein. The great conductor's three symphonies are little masterpieces on their own right, specially his second "Age of Anxiety" and his third "Kaddish".


I second Sessions. Music like that is too often restricted to conservative orchestration.

Carl Nielsen wrote some fantastic symphonies. He demonstrated progressive tonality around the same time as Mahler, but his music wasn't known outside Denmark for some time. I read he's on some piece of Danish currency. He outlived Mahler and thus developed influence from the modern innovations hapening at the time. I like his 3rd best, but his 5th is interesting historically as it calls for an improvisatory snare drum foreshadowing aleatory procedures.


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## Rangstrom

ah...Rangstrom? The first time that I was prompted for a screen name on a BB Rangtrom's 3rd was playing on my stereo. Hence my name here (and other boards), but his 4 symphonies are well worth exploring.

Lately I've been listening to the symphonies of Draeseke; very good in a post Brahms/late romantic style, especially the 3rd. I have the CPO recordings, but the MDG series is getting better reviews.


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## TWhite

While we're at it, let me add Balakirev's First Symphony. I just had a chance to hear it on our local classical radio station the other day, and Good Lord, that piece is just a ZINGER! Especially the third movement, which is just jaw-droppingly beautifull. 

It's next on my 'gotta get' list.

And Comus, let me definitely agree with you on Neilsen. I love his 3rd, the Sinfonia Espansiva--and his Fourth isn't too shabby either, he does the same thing with tympani that he does with the snare drum in his Fifth. Fine composer, IMO.

Tom


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## elgar's ghost

TWhite - I'd say both Balakirev's symphonies are worth hearing - equally good as Borodin's (if not better) and far more interesting than both of Rimsky Korsakov's early 'running before walking' efforts.


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## TWhite

elgar's ghost said:


> TWhite - I'd say both Balakirev's symphonies are worth hearing - equally good as Borodin's (if not better) and far more interesting than both of Rimsky Korsakov's early 'running before walking' efforts.


Elgar:

Thank you. If #2 is even HALF as good as #1, then I think I have a real treat in store for me! I like Balakirev quite a bit, anyway, at least what I've heard, which is mainly his piano music (Sonata/Islamey). Quite the composer, I think.

Tom


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## elgar's ghost

TWhite said:


> Elgar:
> 
> Thank you. If #2 is even HALF as good as #1, then I think I have a real treat in store for me! I like Balakirev quite a bit, anyway, at least what I've heard, which is mainly his piano music (Sonata/Islamey). Quite the composer, I think.
> 
> Tom


If you haven't heard it the orchestral version of Islamey (orchestrated by Liapunov) is worth listening to as well, as are his symphonic poems Tamara and Russia.


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## TWhite

elgar:

Odd you should mention Liapunov's orchestration of "Islamey", since Liapunov also wrote a piano work "Lezghinka" that is almost as fiendishly difficult as Balakirev's. I never quite had the courage to tackle "Islamey" (though a friend of mine did and did a very respectable job of it) but about fifteen years ago I 'girded my loins' and tackled "Lezghinka." I actually conquered it enough to perform it several times--delicious stuff--hard as Hell, but enormous fun once the considerable technical demands were conquered. A friend of mine mentioned that it sounded like the Borodin "Polovstian Dances", only all at ONCE!

But I got off track. I've heard Liapunov's orchestration of "Islamey", and it's tremendously exciting and colorful. I'll have to be on the look-out for both Tamara and Russia. Frankly, I think Balakirev needs a LOT more exposure than he seems to get! 
Thanks.

Tom


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## Guest

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but Amy Beach's Gaelic Symphony. Lots of Brahms in her music.


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## elgar's ghost

TWhite said:


> elgar:
> 
> Odd you should mention Liapunov's orchestration of "Islamey", since Liapunov also wrote a piano work "Lezghinka" that is almost as fiendishly difficult as Balakirev's. I never quite had the courage to tackle "Islamey" (though a friend of mine did and did a very respectable job of it) but about fifteen years ago I 'girded my loins' and tackled "Lezghinka." I actually conquered it enough to perform it several times--delicious stuff--hard as Hell, but enormous fun once the considerable technical demands were conquered. A friend of mine mentioned that it sounded like the Borodin "Polovstian Dances", only all at ONCE!
> 
> But I got off track. I've heard Liapunov's orchestration of "Islamey", and it's tremendously exciting and colorful. I'll have to be on the look-out for both Tamara and Russia. Frankly, I think Balakirev needs a LOT more exposure than he seems to get!
> Thanks.
> 
> Tom


Circumnavigating a piece like that must be rewarding, Tom. By the way, both symphonies and the three other pieces mentioned are all included on 2 Naxos discs (probably for next to nothing) on A****n.

Regards, SCH


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## norman bates

i don't know if it's really unkwnown, but the second of Matthijs Vermeulen is great. Some people called it the dutch sacre du printemps.


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## tahnak

Comus said:


> .
> 
> Carl Nielsen wrote some fantastic symphonies. . I like his 3rd best, but his 5th is interesting historically as it calls for an improvisatory snare drum foreshadowing aleatory procedures.


Yes I have heard his third symphony for the first time last month and I liked it. I will be listening to the Inextinguishable IV soon.


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## Guest

I just discovered Joly Braga Santos. Listen to his early symphonies (1-4, I think). His music has a Vaughan Williams-ish folksiness, with modal melodies and very romantic harmonies.


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## Falstaft

I know the title of this thread is "lesser" known, but J.G. Kastner's _Grande symphonie humoristique vocale et instrumentale Les Cris de Paris_ (1857) qualifies perhaps for *"least"* known. Check out our new blog entry to learn more about this oddity!


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## Manxfeeder

This topic has been very affirming. I always thought there was something wrong with me because I liked Glazunov's symphonies. So I'm not the only one! And David Diamond needs to be better known. 

There's lots of recommendations I heartily agree with and many I need to check into. I also appreciate it when the poster says why a piece stands out so I'll know what to listen for.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Manxfeeder said:


> This topic has been very affirming. I always thought there was something wrong with me because I liked Glazunov's symphonies. So I'm not the only one!


Be my friend! We fans must stick together! I know exactly how you feel.


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## Manxfeeder

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Be my friend! We fans must stick together! I know exactly how you feel.


Great! I'm cranking up his second symphony in your honor.


----------



## David58117

Kurt Atterberg was one of my favorite finds...definitely a man who knew how to write some achingly beautiful melodies. If you're into late romantics and haven't heard him, you're missing out!


----------



## Falstaft

David58117 said:


> Kurt Atterberg was one of my favorite finds...definitely a man who knew how to write some achingly beautiful melodies. If you're into late romantics and haven't heard him, you're missing out!


Dear god, don't wish that theme from the 2nd Symphony Adagio would just go on forever? (It practically does already!). Some impossibly gorgeous music in his cycle.


----------



## Falstaft

The slow movement of Atterberg's 4th is also something to behold. David58117, do you know Alfven's music at all? He might be a good place to look if you're aching for something similar (if a little less heart-on-sleeve romantic than Atterberg)


----------



## David58117

Falstaft said:


> Dear god, don't wish that theme from the 2nd Symphony Adagio would just go on forever? (It practically does already!). Some impossibly gorgeous music in his cycle.


Definitely! Like Tchaikovsky, he would of been a great film score composer. The 4th is one of my favorites, I love the key sig (g min - thanks Saint Saens!), it's short and catchy, perfect for when I need a quick fix. I LOVE the way it begins, the turbulent storm of strings in the beginning, and then the melody that follows is just perfect.

I don't have any Alfven, although he's been on my list for a while now.


----------



## Guest

Avet Terterian.

I think all eight of his symphonies have been recorded, but they're all out of print now.

The 3rd & 4th and the 7th & 8th are still pretty easy to find. The eighth has some cool tape bits. The seventh is a lot of hard pounding on the drum. Really. Just pounding and nothing else for a long time. It's delightful!!

Ib Norholm.

I have several of his symphonies. They're all pretty quirky, with funky little titles--the music is much better than the titles. The best I can say is that Norholm's music isn't terribly extreme or difficult or anything, but it's always interesting, simply because it never quite goes where you expect it to. It always sounds fresh and surprising, even after many listenings.

Francis Dhomont.

Frankenstein Symphony. Of all the albums I've recommended to friends over the years, this one has gotten the most favorable responses. Which is very gratifying to me, as Dhomont is not only a very fine composer but a good friend. Well, a good acquaintance, anyway. The symphony is not about Shelley's doctor, nor about the monster he created. It is an assemblage of many electroacoustic pieces by Dhomont and by students and colleagues who have had impressive careers of their own. It's almost an _emprientes DIGITALes_* sampler, except that all the bits and pieces of everyone's music has been very skillfully woven into a new creation, hence the reference to Dr. Frankenstein.

Roger Reynolds.

I have a disc with two symphonies by this alumn of the outrageous ONCE festival, which also featured such sixties rowdies as Pauline Oliveros, Gordon Mumma, David Behrman, Alvin Lucier and Robert Ashley. The symphonies are late works and not as edgy as his antecedents (or even his other output) would lead you to expect, but they're still pretty good. Like Terterian, his have tape parts, too. Well, the earlier one does. What? I have to listen to the 1990 symphony again right now, just to write this post?

Frank Corcoran.

Marco Polo put out a disc of three short symphonies by this Irish composer, who also does chamber works and electroacoustics. The symphonies reminded me of Varese at first. The more I listen to them (and they repay repeated listenings), the less I think Varese and the more I think Corcoran. Very good sounds. Very tightly constructed works.

Well, those are some very good guys, there. And some smashing symphonies.

*a Canadian label of electroacoustic, live electronics, soundscapes, and a whole sub-label of uncategorizable new music.


----------



## JSK

Here are a few:

Louise Farrenc - All Three Symphonies
Gliere - Symphony No. 3
Balakirev - Symphony No. 1
Rimsky-Korsakov - Symphony No. 2
Borodin - Symphony No. 2

As you might be able to deduce, I am a musical Russophile.


----------



## Jules141

Sergei Taneyev's 4th Symphony - So, so catchy and so underrated.


----------



## David58117

Definitely not a "lesser known" composer, but I think it may be easy for Rachmaninoffs symphonies to become lost in the mix. Particularly his second is a beautiful work.


----------



## tgtr0660

I just bought a couple of sets from Naxos, the complete symphonies of Albert Roussel and William Schuman, both severely underperformed composers.. great!


----------



## Reichstag aus LICHT

Falstaft said:


> *Rued Langgaard*: I'm having *such* a hard time not going on amazon and purchasing the complete set of his symphonies.


I downloaded Thomas Dausgaard's full set of Langgaard symphonies from the Dacapo site, and I thoroughly recommend it.

Dunno if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but apropos "unsung" works, Granville Bantock's three symphonies are well worth hearing.


----------



## Falstaft

To add one more to this list, who here has heard *Karl Weigl'*s "Apocalyptic" Symphony (no. 5)? Weigl's name barely appears at all on these forums, but he was a figure of considerable renown in Vienna during the first quarter of the century. The "Apocalyptic" was written in 1945 in memorium of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and is one of the more interesting works I've come across.

Cue the obligatory blog plug! I've just written an entry on it. Worth checking out for anyone who likes Bruckner or "neo-Bruckner." The recording, from BIS is quite fine, and the cover art is insane:


----------



## gmt

Manxfeeder said:


> I always thought there was something wrong with me because I liked Glazunov's symphonies.


Another one here, especially in Svetlanov's official recordings. The first minutes of the 4th immediately evoke the austere, glorious majesty of Russian neo-classical architecture. As for the central theme in the slow movement of the 7th, it brings tears to my eyes every time.


----------



## Weston

Has anyone heard any symphonies by Lowell Liebermann? What do you make of him? I'm listening to this album on my Rhapsody account and I'm considering picking it up, but I can't decide. It's almost too lush, like a saccharine modern movie soundtrack, maybe not overly innovative. But does it have to be innovative? Am I just falling for pretty sonorities and will I get bored with it down the road?










I couldn't find any examples of the Symphony No. 2 on YouTube, but the album also contains his Flute Concerto. Again, I'm torn whether I'm temporarily liking the accessibility of this music.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

^ GASP! 

I wanna play it one day. May be many years from now... but I'll try it.


----------



## Falstaft

Weston said:


> Has anyone heard any symphonies by Lowell Liebermann?


Mmm Weston, that music goes down easy! (But in a good way, I think). Will check out Liebermann after hearing that flute concerto.

I'm hearing a lot of enthusiasm for *Glazunov*'s symphonies here. I admit I'm not too familiar with anything of his beyond the orchestral tone poems. I overheard parts of his Second on the radio a while back and remember being struck by a) how lovely it was, and b) how utterly like Rimsky Korsakov it sounded! Any particular Glaz symphonies I should look to first? 4th? 7th? And does he come into his own as a composer a little more as he wracks up symphonies?


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Falstaft said:


> Mmm Weston, that music goes down easy! (But in a good way, I think). Will check out Liebermann after hearing that flute concerto.
> 
> I'm hearing a lot of enthusiasm for *Glazunov*'s symphonies here. I admit I'm not too familiar with anything of his beyond the orchestral tone poems. I overheard parts of his Second on the radio a while back and remember being struck by a) how lovely it was, and b) how utterly like Rimsky Korsakov it sounded! Any particular Glaz symphonies I should look to first? 4th? 7th? And does he come into his own as a composer a little more as he wracks up symphonies?


You mean, does Glazunov actually have an original tone? Yes. I can recognize him as different between Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov, because he does things the others wold never do at the same time. I still think his best symphonies are 3,4,5 especially 4. It only took me _one _listen to realize it was great. I haven't many recordings of Jose Serebrie conducting, however, I 100% trust him with the symphonies, so I would get his conducting of the 4th symphony. AVOID NAXOS! It was the worst version of the 4th symphony ever, so lifeless.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Reichstag aus LICHT said:


> Dunno if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but apropos "unsung" works, Granville Bantock's three symphonies are well worth hearing.


Wow, I forgot about him. But as a testimonial to the communicative ability of his music, back when my daughter was 13 and not particularly into classical music, she heard the last movement of his Celtic Symphony on the radio, and the next day she went out and purchased it. It was interesting seeing Granville Bantock on her shelf next to Sarah MacLachlan and Smashmouth.


----------



## Manxfeeder

Falstaft said:


> Worth checking out for anyone who likes Bruckner or "neo-Bruckner." The recording, from BIS is quite fine, and the cover art is insane:


You had me at "Bruckner."

Thanks for the link to your blog. That piece has one of the most unique openings I've encountered.


----------



## starthrower

Check out the Seattle Symphony's William Schuman series on Naxos. I really love these works!

Henri Dutilleux nos. 1&2 on Chandos. Some exquisite French orchestral music.


----------



## Guest

Joly Braga Santos and Luis de Freitas Branco: Portugal in music.


----------



## Art Rock

Jeff N said:


> Joly Braga Santos and Luis de Freitas Branco: Portugal in music.


I have been listening to LdFB's third. Once you get over the anachronistic aspects (it was composed in 1944 - sounds like late 19th century to me), this is interesting music.


----------



## Rangstrom

The recent release of the Tyberg sym 3 on Naxos (Falletta/Buffalo) is certainly worth a listen. Not cutting edge (written in '43) by any means but still fun with touches that remind one of Mahler, Bruckner and Mendelssohn but with his own spin. I've played this 3 times already (rare for my listening habits).


----------



## Rondo

Glazunov is definitly worth mentioning, and I'm not surprised a number of people have already. Another under-rated symphonist is Grechaninov. And, if on the topic of British symphonists, Malcolm Arnold belongs in the high ranks (if not up with V. Williams, then _certainly_ Bax). I could be wrong, but it may be that Arnold's symphonies are overshadowed by his works for small ensembles and bands.


----------



## Falstaft

Rangstrom said:


> The recent release of the Tyberg sym 3 on Naxos (Falletta/Buffalo) is certainly worth a listen. Not cutting edge (written in '43) by any means but still fun with touches that remind one of Mahler, Bruckner and Mendelssohn but with his own spin. I've played this 3 times already (rare for my listening habits).


I just picked this up too. An interesting piece, may have to write it up in the future


----------



## Rangstrom

Falstaft,

I look forward to your take. Not to influence you, but the later theme in the slow movement is still lingering in my head.


----------



## Romantic Geek

Jeff N said:


> I just discovered Roussel and I'm completely stunned that he isn't performed more. His symphonies, especially no. 3, are absolutely fantastic (as are those of one of his more famous students, Martinu).
> 
> Other guys whose symphonies should be heard are: *Roy Harris* (you must check out his 3rd!), *Douglas Lilburn*, *Karol Szymanowksi*, *William Schuman* (not to be confused with Robert), *William Grant Still*, *Alan Hovhaness* (Mysterious Mountain is excellent), *David Diamond*, *Arthur Honegger* (the opening to his 5th will knock you out of your socks), *Randall Thompson* (not many recordings of his unjustly neglected 3 symphonies), *Eduard Tubin* (particularly no. 4), and *George Dyson* (only did one, but if you like Sibelius then check it out).


Oh Jeff! That Harris symphony is arguably one of the most famous American symphonies, outside of Copland and Ives (maybe). 

I don't have much to contribute since I don't know many symphonies outside the greater known composers, although I do remember liking *Amy Beach*'s Gaelic symphony when I heard it the first time, but I don't know it well enough.

I just picked up a CD with *Ned Rorem*'s 3 symphonies. I'll let you know how it is after I listen to them.


----------



## Guest

Romantic Geek said:


> Oh Jeff! That Harris symphony is arguably one of the most famous American symphonies, outside of Copland and Ives (maybe).


I know, but nobody ever plays it! It's been recorded a bunch, yeah, but I'm still waiting for a local orchestra to perform it (and since the DSO is on strike, it won't be them). And Amy Beach's Gaelic Symphony is beautiful.


----------



## Romantic Geek

I guess you're right about that. More people just need to play American music in general.


----------



## Llyranor

- Elgar's 1st symphony has some brilliant moments. There's a part in the last movement (can't really describe it since I'm not very musically-versed, but it's where the harp features prominently) which just makes me melt. Really uplifting. It's the part at 0:17 here until 1:20. Just really love it.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5PqCxW1zw#t=16[/yt]

- 2nd movement of Barber's 2nd symphony is very nice. There's quite a sense of mystery to it.

- Also a big fan of the 1st movement of Dvorak's 1st symphony.


----------



## starry

Llyranor said:


> - Elgar's 1st symphony has some brilliant moments. There's a part in the last movement (can't really describe it since I'm not very musically-versed, but it's where the harp features prominently) which just makes me melt. Really uplifting. It's the part at 0:17 here until 1:20. Just really love it.
> [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5PqCxW1zw#t=16[/yt]


I like the whole of Elgar's 1st, one of my favourite pieces. The slow movement is the heart of it for me, but I think the whole piece ranks as one of the greatest symphonies of its period. My favourite recording is Elgar's own.


----------



## Tracy

That Elgar clip is beautiful. Thanks for that.


----------



## drth15

*Great underperformed symphonies*

Tubin Sym #9
Pettersen Sym #7
Martinu Sym 4,6


----------



## Guest

drth15 said:


> Tubin Sym #9
> Pettersen Sym #7
> Martinu Sym 4,6


I prefer Tubin's 4th, myself, but he is in general very underperformed. And Martinu is a great composer as well; his string quartets are some of the best.


----------



## Sarabande

Ernest Bloch, Symphony number 1 in C#minor awesome symphony!


----------



## Sarabande

The symphonies of Alberic Magnard


----------



## Rondo

I mentioned it in the Hindemith, et al poll. Hindemith's Symphony in E flat.



Sarabande said:


> Ernest Bloch, Symphony number 1 in C#minor awesome symphony!


I did not know Bloch composed a symphony. Thanks!


----------



## Musicbox

World Violist said:


> One of my absolute favorite sets of symphonies is that of Edmund Rubbra. There is something distinctly personal about these symphonies, from form to harmonic language to orchestration. There is a marvelous set of recordings by the late Richard Hickox.


Another vote for Rubbra - now almost forgotten despite Hickox & Chandos efforts. Particulary a fan of the teutonic 4th, and his last, the 11th, which is only about 12 mins long IIRC. But it packs a lot in a short spae - and composed as recently as 1979 I think.

There are some recordings other than the Hickox set - Norman Del Mar recorded them for Lyrita in late 1970s and some are available on CD.

Worth checking out his Viola Concerto on Hyperion too.


----------



## Guest

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but right now I'm listening to Arthur Bliss' A Colour Symphony and it is fantastic.


----------



## emiellucifuge

^

It is, i trie nominating it in the 150 symphonies but no one else voted


----------



## gmt

Rondo said:


> I did not know Bloch composed a symphony. Thanks!


There are several Bloch symphonies actually: the early one in C sharp, the "Israel" symphony, the symphony for trombone and orchestra, the "Sinfonia Breve" and the symphony in E flat. Some regard "America" as a symphony as well.


----------



## Falstaft

I've not gotten around to posting on the board recently b/c I was on holiday in the U.K. and Iceland, but I do have something to show for it. A popular request was for a write up of Jon Leif's "Saga Symphony", so here it is in all its jagged glory!

http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/2011/01/ogress-of-war-leifs-saga-symphony.html










Sometimes I've heard it referred to as his "Symphony No. 1" but as far as I can tell, it's his only attempt at the form. Too bad, would have loved to hear some more, but he certainly provided us with enough large-scale works to satisfy those of us who find his strange sounds irresistible.


----------



## Aksel

A rather wonderful symphony that I often find myself listening to is Wilhelm Peterson-Berger's fourth symphony, nicknamed Holmia, which I believe is another name for Stockholm. It's all very pleasant and nice with charming melodies and lovely oboe solos aplenty. It isn't one of his most serious works, but it is very charming.
I have the recording with Norrköping Symphony Orchestra conducted by Michail Jurowski, which also includes some other very charming pieces by Peterson-Berger.


----------



## starry

Magnard has been mentioned in passing, I would particularly say his 3rd. And Arriaga hasn't been mentioned at all in this thread.


----------



## Art Rock

Did someone ｍｅｎｔｉｏｎ　the four by de Freitas Branco？Ａ　ｒｅｃｅｎｔ　ｄｉｓｃｏｖｅｒｙ　ｆｏｒ　ｍｅ．
Ｔｈｅ　ｆｏｕｒ　ｂｙ　Ｓｃｈｍｉｄｔ　ａｒｅ　ｅｘｃｅｌｌｅｎｔ　ａｎｄ　ｒｅｌａｔｉｖｅｌｙ　ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎ．


----------



## Barking Spiderz

Agree re Dvorak's 1 to 5 - as well as the Kubelik and Kertesz sets I also have cycles by Rowicki, Suitner and Gunzenhauser. All are fine works but IMO the Rowicki 1-3 are even better than the Kubelik and Kertesz.
No mention yet of Bizet's Symphony in C - a big fave of mine, having the classic Beecham recording and equally excellent ones by Marriner and Abbado
Rimsky -K's 'Antar' symphony - Zinman and Svetlanov versions both excellent
Tchaikovsky's first 3, well overlooked IMO. Just check out the Janssons, Karajan and Rostropovich sets to see why.
Borodin's 2 and a half - I love pretty much everything I've heard by Borodin. Shame he didnt do more. Amazing to think he was a hobbyist composer and a top flight scientist
Franz Schmidt - his 4 symphonies are terrific -why so overlooked?


----------



## starry

Duplicate post


----------



## starry

Borodin 2 and Bizet are pretty famous. Tchaikovsky's 3rd is definitely overlooked. I like Rowicki in Dvorak 1, not in the 2nd though which I haven't really been convinced much by. Kertesz and Kubelik have not been my favourites in the past, Kertesz in particular lacks energy.


----------



## Barking Spiderz

starry said:


> Borodin 2 and Bizet are pretty famous. Tchaikovsky's 3rd is definitely overlooked. I like Rowicki in Dvorak 1, not in the 2nd though which I haven't really been convinced much by. Kertesz and Kubelik have not been my favourites in the past, Kertesz in particular lacks energy.


Pretty famous among FM cognoscenti but they dont seem to be held in the same esteem as LvB 5th, Schubert Unfinished, Sibelius 2nd, Mahler 9, Mozart 41, Shosta 10, Dvorak 9 etc

I'm surprised re your comments viz Kertesz and Kubelik considering their reps as Dvorak masters and the seminal status of their cycles. So what do you rate as better? I also have the Dohnanyi 7-9, Giuliani 7-9 and Janssons, 5,7-9. These perhaps?

I also forgot to mention Bruch, particularly #3.


----------



## starry

Barking Spiderz said:


> I'm surprised re your comments viz Kertesz and Kubelik considering their reps as Dvorak masters and the seminal status of their cycles.


And some people disagree with that. Kertesz put me off the lesser known Dvorak symphonies for many years. You already mention Suitner and Rowicki who have been ignored by most in the past. Others I suppose like Talich as well


----------



## Art Rock

Barking Spiderz said:


> Franz Schmidt - his 4 symphonies are terrific -why so overlooked?


Head over to the 150 greatest symphonies thread for a final chance to support me for inclusion of Schmidt 4 - no-one else likes it apparently.


----------



## Bookman

Kabalevsky - Symphony No. 4, Op.54, 1954.
Popov - Symphony No. 5, 1963.
Sallinen - Sinfonia, 1971.
Sumera - Symphony No. 2, 1984.
Ustvolskaya - Symphony No. 1, 1955.


----------



## the_emptier

I have schmidt 4 and it's pretty great

I have nielsen, myaskovsky and others to listen too


----------



## starthrower




----------



## Barking Spiderz

Forgot to mention Bruch's three and Saint Saens' other four. Well under-recorded works.


----------



## Sebastien Melmoth

Heard *Lyapunov*'s First on the radio the other evening: it was very good.


----------



## michelg

I'm brand new in your forum and this topic just reach me. Langgaard is the name that caught me but I think no one mentionned Aulis Sallinen (1935*). 8 up to now and everyone is a must listening in tonal but modern pattern. Please don't look at my language error, I'm Québécois so frenchy. Oh another one, the american Antheil, just discovering hiom but the #4 is interresting,


----------



## mmsbls

I like the following. I'm not sure I would call them great but certainly worth a good listen.

Czerny #2
Rott Symphony in E


----------



## Art Rock

michelg said:


> I'm brand new in your forum and this topic just reach me. Langgaard is the name that caught me but I think no one mentionned Aulis Sallinen (1935*). 8 up to now and everyone is a must listening in tonal but modern pattern. Please don't look at my language error, I'm Québécois so frenchy. Oh another one, the american Antheil, just discovering hiom but the #4 is interresting,


I second Sallinen. I have been pushing for his 6th to be included in the top150 but in vain.

Also the five symphonies by Grechaninov are surprisingly unknown.


----------



## the_emptier

agreed with grechaninov


----------



## Art Rock

Just listened to the three by Enescu. Great, especially the third.


----------



## Bookman

Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov - Symphony No. 1, 1956-7


----------



## elgar's ghost

No. 7 by Boris Tishchenko (Yablonsky/Moscow PO on Naxos). A full-bodied work worthy of one of DSCH's pupils. There's not much of Tishchenko's output available on disc which is surprising given his credentials and how long he's been around. This particular work is in 5 movements and lasts for about 52 minutes.


----------



## Bookman

Jaan Rääts - Symphony No 2, Op. 8, 1958


----------



## Bobotox

My absolute favorite symphonies from the unsung are without a doubt the 5th and 8th of Franz Lachner. They are so epic and majestic with full of memorable melodies. Better than Brahms symphonies for sure. If you don't believe me hear for yourselves they are in my channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoldieG89?feature=mhum


----------



## tdc

Bobotox said:


> My absolute favorite symphonies from the unsung are without a doubt the 5th and 8th of Franz Lachner. They are so epic and majestic with full of memorable melodies. Better than Brahms symphonies for sure. If you don't believe me hear for yourselves they are in my channel.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/GoldieG89?feature=mhum


Just checked out that first mvt of Lachner's 8th, and honestly, that did sound quite good to my ears. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## clavichorder

I've really like Roy Harris's symphony so far, and the William Schuman String Symphony is pretty neat. That's right, Gerard Schwartz at the Seattle symphony does a lot of American music, has a good series that includes William Schuman.

I have William Walton symphonies 1 and 2. From the sound of the first movement of 1, it seems interesting but I'm wondering how it will hold up through its 14 minute duration. Does anyone here have any experience with the William Walton symphonies?


----------



## Vaneyes

Haydn 6 - 8 (St. Luke's Chamber Ens.)
Tchaikovsky 1 - 3 (Muti)
Dvorak 4 (Kertesz) 5 (Jansons)
Roussel 1 - 4 (Eschenbach)
Scriabin 1 - 4 (Muti)
Enescu 1 - 3 (Foster)
Rachmaninov 1, 3 (Jansons)
Penderecki 1 (Penderecki)
Rawsthorne 1 - 3 (Lloyd-Jones)
Dutilleux 1 (Baudo) 2 (Graf)


----------



## Bobotox

The just released 6th symphony of of Johann Rufinatscha is another masterpiece from the unsungs of the 19th century. Very melodious and memorable. Its in my channel. It's a must listen for everybody.


----------



## violadude

Here are a few names of some lesser known composers that wrote some great symphony cycles. Ill try to stick to those that haven't been mentioned.

Ernst Toch
Malcolm Arnold
Wolfgang Rihm
Humphrey Searle
Michael Tippett
Egon Wellesz
Alfred Schnittke
Heitor Villa-Lobos
Dimtri Kabalevsky
Asger Hamerik
Glenn Branca

I should say something about the last one, he's an experimental sort of "rock instrumental crossover." He did write "symphonies" but they consist of electric guitars and drum sets and sometimes a brass section. They pretty good if that is your sort of thing.

I also second many suggestions made on the thread already. Specifically, Rubbra, Tubin, Atterberg, Martinu, Bax and Alwyn. I'm not a huge Langaard fan. I was impressed with him initially and still like some of his symphonies but I feel like once you take away the pure grandeur and power of the works there isn't much left. Especially in his later symphonies. His earlier ones are pretty great though.


----------



## kv466

Rasa said:


> For me, a rather hidden perl is César Franck's symphony in D.


Well, there it is...you stole my answer!...a beautiful work, indeed


----------



## clavichorder

I just heard the Stenheimer 1st symphony. That was a fantastic work, combination of Bruckner and Brahms with some Tchaikovsky thrown in the mix.


----------



## Oskaar

just listened to fibich. no one symphony. Very calm and lyric. Listening to no 2 now. a bit more energetic...Both is absolutely worth listening to!


----------



## emiellucifuge

Wait till you get to the 3rd, one of my favourites! Which recording do you have?


----------



## Aramis

How about this charming slow movement of late romantic symphony:


----------



## Vaneyes

violadude said:


> Here are a few names of some lesser known composers that wrote some great symphony cycles. Ill try to stick to those that haven't been mentioned.
> 
> Ernst Toch
> Malcolm Arnold
> Wolfgang Rihm
> Humphrey Searle
> Michael Tippett
> Egon Wellesz
> Alfred Schnittke
> Heitor Villa-Lobos
> Dimtri Kabalevsky
> Asger Hamerik
> Glenn Branca
> 
> I should say something about the last one, he's an experimental sort of "rock instrumental crossover." He did write "symphonies" but they consist of electric guitars and drum sets and sometimes a brass section. They pretty good if that is your sort of thing.
> 
> I also second many suggestions made on the thread already. Specifically, Rubbra, Tubin, Atterberg, Martinu, Bax and Alwyn. I'm not a huge Langaard fan. I was impressed with him initially and still like some of his symphonies but I feel like once you take away the pure grandeur and power of the works there isn't much left. Especially in his later symphonies. His earlier ones are pretty great though.


Your mention of Searle and Tippett reminded me of Dr. David Wright's authorship. Some may find this link useful.

http://www.wrightmusic.net/pages/composers.html


----------



## Tapkaara

How can I not mention the symphony from where my handle originates: Sinfonia Tapkaara by Akira Ifukube.


----------



## Vaneyes

Aramis said:


> How about this charming slow movement of late romantic symphony:


Good old Zygmunt Noskowski.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Noskowski


----------



## Tapkaara

Vaneyes said:


> Good old Zygmunt Noskowski.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Noskowski


I really like this!


----------



## Aramis

Good, old, yes, but a little bit academic if you ask me. I would start thread about him but I'm still on my way to decide if I like him at all or not myself. This movement I've posted is indeed solid piece but the whole symphony? I'm not sure. If one likes it I think it's best for him to check his more famous and represented symphonic poems which I won't link here as it's thread about symphonies, not poems.


----------



## Oskaar

Nino Rota...light and heavy at the same time....symphony nr 1 so far...trully addicting


----------



## Oskaar

balakirev no 1


----------



## Oskaar

and balakirev no 2... Great recording by russian state symphony orchestra. igor Golovschin-conductor


----------



## Bobotox

oskaar said:


> Nino Rota...light and heavy at the same time....symphony nr 1 so far...trully addicting


You want to hear even more addicting music? Listen to the symphonies of Joachim Raff.


----------



## Tapkaara

Didi anyone have a chance to hear any segments of Sinfonia Tapkaara I posted above?


----------



## tdc

Tapkaara said:


> Didi anyone have a chance to hear any segments of Sinfonia Tapkaara I posted above?


I listened to most of the first segment this morning... it didn't necessarily jump out at me as - 'OMG must check out this composer!' etc. However, it did sound quite solid and I don't really have any major criticisms either. This composer may grow on me.


----------



## robert

Art Rock said:


> Head over to the 150 greatest symphonies thread for a final chance to support me for inclusion of Schmidt 4 - no-one else likes it apparently.


I really like his fourth....It means nothing to me that it does not make any lists...Many works that I treasure make no lists....so what......


----------



## robert

Bookman said:


> Kabalevsky - Symphony No. 4, Op.54, 1954.
> Popov - Symphony No. 5, 1963.
> Sallinen - Sinfonia, 1971.
> Sumera - Symphony No. 2, 1984.
> Ustvolskaya - Symphony No. 1, 1955.


Nice to see some appreciation of Sumera and Ustvolskaya, I have many works of both....


----------



## robert

World Violist said:


> Another Dukas work that deserves to be much better-known is La Peri, his last work. It's a wonderful ballet, with a rather impressive (and somewhat well-known in the band world) fanfare at the beginning; but the next 20 minutes are pure heaven.
> 
> One of my absolute favorite sets of symphonies is that of Edmund Rubbra. There is something distinctly personal about these symphonies, from form to harmonic language to orchestration. There is a marvelous set of recordings by the late Richard Hickox.


absolutely concur about Rubbra. I have been into him for many years. Have all his symphonies....He is always in my rotation......I have all his works by Hickox, but I also have things by Del Mar, Schonzeler, Handley.....


----------



## robert

Falstaft said:


> I discovered a recording of Gloria Coates's Second and 9th Symphonies while browsing the music library the other day and was very impressed by what I've heard. Her 2nd is subtitled "Illuminatio in Tenebris" and presents some very ominous impressions of the northern lights, like another piece I love Tviett's 4nd Piano Concerto. As for the ninth, aka "Homage to Van Gogh," might I suggest you check out my blog Unsung Symphonies to discover some of its strange secrets. :trp: (tooting own horn)
> 
> http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/


Have you tried her string quartets?


----------



## Tapkaara

tdc said:


> I listened to most of the first segment this morning... it didn't necessarily jump out at me as - 'OMG must check out this composer!' etc. However, it did sound quite solid and I don't really have any major criticisms either. This composer may grow on me.


Thanks for giving it a shot. Obviously, this is music of great importance to me, thus my promotion of it. I hope it does grow on you some more, but if it doesn't, I can't expect everyone to be won over!


----------



## Oskaar

*Joly Braga Santos: Symphony No. 2/ Crossroads*










Modern, but very listenable symphony, full of differnt moods. Lot of light flute-sektions, and sections by other wind instruments.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Hi Tapkaara,
Just listened to the Ifukube. It is quite original, and I enjoyed it a lot, though Im still not convinced as to why its so amazing. What makes it stand out for you?


----------



## Tapkaara

emiellucifuge said:


> Hi Tapkaara,
> Just listened to the Ifukube. It is quite original, and I enjoyed it a lot, though Im still not convinced as to why its so amazing. What makes it stand out for you?


I am glad you enjoyed it. The fact, though, that you did not find it amazing is simply a matter of taste. One does not have to be blown away by everything they enjoy.

What makes it stand out for me? The directness of the expression, probably. This directness is a primary facet of Ifukube's music in general, and I find that very refreshing and appealing.

I think in many ways Ifukube was a neo-classicist in the truest sense of the world. He stripped music down to the bare essentials in order to create music that was succinct but STILL with a range of texture and force. This is why I have fallen off the Mahler bandwagon. Mahler takes too long to make his points. Composers like Ifukube get right to it. I like that.

I find Ifukube's rhythms and percussion to be exciting, his melodies exotically beautiful and his orchestration to be imposing. I also admire his will to do things his way when the majority of Japanese composers during his time looked to copy European modernism. Ifukube followed his own path and became, I think, one of the first minimalists, if not in name but by practice.

Can't expect everyone to love it or even like it. As a proponent of his work, I simply ask that people try him. I thank you for listening.


----------



## Bobotox

Just finished listening to Richard Wetz's 2nd symphony for the 3rd time and I can already say it is a masterpiece. If you guys like Bruckner you'll like this guy. 

But the greatest unsung symphony has to be the 5th symphony of Franz Lachner. For the time being anyway lol, then it will be his 6th if it ever gets recorded.


----------



## Oskaar

GRECHANINOV symphony no 2


----------



## mgj15

This thread has been a huge help in broadening my scope of composers and their symphonies I'd never have thought twice about without your opinions to guide me (_us_, I'm sure!).

I think a few of my favorites that I've developed since immersing myself in all of your suggestions are:

Atterberg: All I've heard
Raff: All I've heard
Alfven: All I've heard
Gliere No. 3
Lachner Nos. 5 & 8
Glazunov Nos. 4 & 7
Magnard No. 4

I should stop here, but the list is growing..

And in my travels looking for some of these works, I've discovered * Aram Khachaturian's Symphony No. 2, "The Bell Symphony"*. Something I haven't seen mentioned here.

Thank you all for sharing your wealth of tastes as varied as they are. And especially to those who wrote descriptions of works, as those were definitely most helpful in trying to match my tastes to what I should seek first!

:tiphat:


----------



## Oskaar

*Paul Dukas: Symphony In C Major*

Not a very big and grandeous symphony maybe, but very nice!


----------



## Oskaar

Bobotox said:


> You want to hear even more addicting music? Listen to the symphonies of Joachim Raff.


Noticed! look forward to eksplore raff!


----------



## Aramis

mgj15 said:


> Alfven: All I've heard


I think I've heard all and they are all worth of hearing. Alfven was gifted composer and if his 1st symphony is well written, highly enjoyable and beautiful work then it could get only better with time.

There is thread about him: http://www.talkclassical.com/8175-hugo-alfv-n.html


----------



## Oskaar

*Ropartz; Symphony No. 2*

Very enjoyable!

This version, I find very good:


----------



## Oskaar

*Ropartz; Symphony No. 5*

I find this one also very good!


----------



## Oskaar

*svendsen; Symphony No. 1 in D major, Op. 4*

A "light" symphony you should hear!


----------



## DGatsby

Can't say where or not anyone has mentioned him, but Nikolai Myaskovsky, father of the Soviet Symphony, wrote some great symphonies. I can't say to have heard all of them (27 total!), but I'm a big fan of Symphony 17 in G Sharp Minor.


----------



## johnfkavanagh

Huilunsoittaja said:


> For me:
> 
> Kalinnikov: Symphonies 1 & 2. Some said he would be the next Tchaikovsky, but he died young. He indeed has an original tone, and distinctively Russian. Not many recordings, mostly by Russian groups.
> 
> Glazunov: the 9 Symphonies (or, 8 and a 1/4). Just lovely stuff. Romantic, Russian, sensible, nostalgic, incredibly sincere, highly entertaining scherzos, what else would you want? I suggest the 3rd, 4th and 5th symphonies, which are his best, the 4th is my favorite. Suggested recordings are with _Jose Serebrier_, Neeme Jarvi, and Evgeny Svetlanov.


Agreed. I stumbled upon these by accident and was amazed at how fresh and enjoyable they are.


----------



## starthrower

These two should not be missed. Especially No.2 (Le Double)


----------



## Jobe

Oh God, so many composers I haven't heard of. I felt quite confident after the first post too. Do not fear, I shall learn them all! Thanks everyone!

Because I'm in a lazy mood not to be searching through all of the posts today (they're lists, so I can't give you all funny accents), I'll offer a "composer": Solomon ibn Gabirol. A hebrew poet of 1021. He wrote Piyyutum. The Piyyut is sometimes set to music.

Okay that was terrible, but it was worth a try.


----------



## Oskaar

aho no 4. Aho is a wonderful finnish composer. Only heard no 4 yet. But it is fantastic!


----------



## taduy

Did you know Brian HAVERGAL and his largest symphony of all time " The Gothic " , it s truly the greatest grandious symphony ever written of music history


----------



## Oskaar

Listen to Balakirevs 2 symphonies. Especially no 1 is outstanding!


----------



## Oskaar

Bloch, symphonie in c


----------



## Oskaar

This thread must not be forgotten! 
Aho is a great symphonist


----------



## starthrower

I'm really into Per Norgard at the moment. Will get to Aho eventually. I also ordered up a set of Sallinen's symphonies and orchestral works.


----------



## Oskaar

I love the symphony as an artform! But since I am quite new to classical music, I naturally go to the most famous first. Sibelius, mahler, bethoven an so on. But I have made a note of symphonies and symphonist mentioned here, and I am looking forward to explore


----------



## Kryten

Only one person has mentioned him so far, but having now heard all 3 of Bruch's symphonies, I can honestly say they're pretty good. Nothing really exciting or completely innovative, but most definitely enjoyable.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Mozart: Symphony in A minor K16a "Odense"










Mozart: Symphony no. 7






Farrenc: Symphony no. 3






Alice Mary Smith: Symphony no. 2


----------



## Montezuma

Hi, I have just joined this forum to thank you all so much for introducing me to such fantastic music. I plan to stick around and learn more however so I look forward to chatting with you in the future.


----------



## Celloissimo

Eyvind Alnaes Symphony No. 2. Lush orchestrastion, was not expecting to stumble upon this hidden gem.


----------



## CyrilWashbrook

Bobotox said:


> Just finished listening to Richard Wetz's 2nd symphony for the 3rd time and I can already say it is a masterpiece. If you guys like Bruckner you'll like this guy.


I first heard this last week and agree that it's definitely worth listening to. Marcel Tyberg's excellent third symphony is the other one I'd mention here.


----------



## muxamed

I am swede and I wholeheartedly recommend any swedish 20th century composer. Kurt Atterberg's symphonies for instance, are somewhat forgotten but easily recommendable.


----------



## Markez

Johann Christian Bach - A composer everyone should make habit of listening to... His later symphonic works are amongst his best, particularly his symphony in B Flat - arguably his most famous work today.


----------



## maestro57

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but my favourite "lesser known" symphony is by Joseph Haydn's younger brother:

Michael J. Haydn - Symphony No. 29 in D minor, MH 393/P. 20.


----------



## Trout

I would recommend what I have heard of Weinberg's and Popov's symphonies which, to me, are in the idiom of Shostakovich.


----------



## Novelette

Any and all of Johann Stamitz's symphonies.

Also, Cherubini's single symphony in D. And both of Carl Maria von Weber's Symphonies!


----------



## Pantheon

I heard this recently and found it interesting. The precursor to the soundtrack we know today so well!


----------



## TrevBus

Jeff N said:


> Joly Braga Santos and Luis de Freitas Branco: Portugal in music.


Also in Symphoinies from Portugal you might want out to check out Fernando Lopes-Graca. His only Sym.(simply sym. for orch.)is a gem. As are his 2 piano Concertos. Both sym and con. are on the Naxos label.


----------



## TrevBus

Romantic Geek said:


> I guess you're right about that. More people just need to play American music in general.


Agree. Here some Composers to check out. 
Randall Thompson
George Rochberg
Adolhus Hailstork
Nicolas Flagello
Frank Ezra Levy
Benjamin Lees
Samuel Jones
Wallingford Riegger


----------



## TrevBus

clavichorder said:


> I've really like Roy Harris's symphony so far, and the William Schuman String Symphony is pretty neat. That's right, Gerard Schwartz at the Seattle symphony does a lot of American music, has a good series that includes William Schuman.
> 
> I have William Walton symphonies 1 and 2. From the sound of the first movement of 1, it seems interesting but I'm wondering how it will hold up through its 14 minute duration. Does anyone here have any experience with the William Walton symphonies?


IMO, I consider Walton's 1st, 2 of the greatest 20th century British Symphonies. The other being Richard Arnell's 3rd.


----------



## TrevBus

oskaar said:


> Nino Rota...light and heavy at the same time....symphony nr 1 so far...trully addicting


Finally, someone else who enjoys Rota's #1. Charming.


----------



## TrevBus

Granville Bantock
William Alwyn
Herman Koppel
Bernard Zweers
Takashi Yoshimatsu
Saburo Moroi
Villa-Lobos
Alfredo Casella
Ahmed Adnan Saygun
Gian Francesco Malipiero
Alexander Moyzes
Nikolay Myaskovsky
Charles Villiers Stanford
Robert Simpson
Cornelis Dopper
Ludolf Nielsen(no relation to you know who)
Masao Ohki
Charles Hubert Parry

Someone has already mention him but Dag Wiren's Sym.#2, is one of my personal favorites of all time. Wiren himself didn't care for it. Sorry he felt that way. Lovely music.


----------



## Orfeo

tgtr0660 said:


> You are really missing the world by not exploring American symphonists the like of Schuman, Diamond, Roger Sessions, Piston, Harris. Everything is not just minimalism in the States! Also, though famous composers, their symphonies haven't achieved the same fame (though in the second case that's starting to change): Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein. The great conductor's three symphonies are little masterpieces on their own right, specially his second "Age of Anxiety" and his third "Kaddish".


Let me add Creston here, for he is something else!


----------



## Copperears

I'm glad to hear someone else here mention David Diamond! I picked up a recording of his 2nd and 4th symphonies along with the Concerto for Small Orchestra, dared to praise it online somewhere years ago and got rabidly shot down by some intemperate lout, who no doubt only enjoys "Best Classical Music for Xmas" compilations or something.

Thoroughly enjoyable listen.


----------



## hpowders

Franz Schmidt symphonies; the fourth, in particular is very nice, conducted by Zubin Mehta, especially for those who respond to the music of Richard Strauss.


----------



## EDaddy

I have discovered Nielson's Symphony #5 and this version is truly wonderous. Completely unique and captivating. This guy was not scared! Highly recommend.

His 4th "The Indistinguishable" is probably his most well known and, while excellent, I find this one less abrasive and equally if not more adventurous.


----------



## Alypius

Lot of great recommendations on this thread:

http://www.talkclassical.com/32808-masterpieces-off-beaten-track.html


----------



## RandallPeterListens

Sorry, too lazy to search the thread, but has anyone mentioned Alberic Magnard's Symphony #3? That's the winner of his four.


----------



## mmsbls

RandallPeterListens said:


> Sorry, too lazy to search the thread, but has anyone mentioned Alberic Magnard's Symphony #3? That's the winner of his four.


Magnard was mentioned twice but only a general reference to his symphonies. I too find the 3rd most enjoyable of his symphonies.


----------



## musicrom

RandallPeterListens said:


> Sorry, too lazy to search the thread, but has anyone mentioned Alberic Magnard's Symphony #3? That's the winner of his four.


I've listened to this symphony a couple times, thinking that maybe it might be a hidden gem (it was written by the "French Bruckner," after all), but I don't know, it didn't interest me very much the first two times. Maybe I'll try again.


----------



## Trout

I would like to put in a word for Magnard's 4th which I like as much, if not more than the 3rd. The 4th Symphony, one of his last pieces, is an evocative flurry of ominous turbulence that settles to reach a calmer and beautiful resolution. It might have been my favorite French symphony, had a certain guy named Olivier not come along a little later...


----------



## musicrom

I don't want to go through the entire thread to check if it's already been mentioned, but I kind of doubt that it has been. Czerny's 6th Symphony, which was supposedly only discovered (or recorded maybe, I can't tell?) in this century, impressed me from the first listen. It's Beethoven-esque, unsurprisingly, but it's still unique and worth a listen.


----------



## Cosmos

I second those who said Schmidt. His symphonies are post-romantic, slightly leaning on modernism. My personal favorites are the second and the very famous fourth.

Add Stravinsky's op. 1, a Symphony in E-flat. A side of Stravinsky I hadn't heard before, it's very Russian Romantic with hints of his characteristically rhythmic works. A lot of fun.


----------



## Rhombic

Lyatoshynsky's 3rd symphony rarely lets the listener to end up feeling indifferent. Most people will enjoy it very much. Mid 20th century but quite traditional in most of his approaches in the symphony, never too experimental, easy to follow and well orchestrated. It should be an impressive staple socialist realism symphony.


----------



## spradlig

Bizet: Symphony #2. Doesn't seem to me like it should be overshadowed by #1.
Schubert's early symphonies, at least some of them: parts of #2, I think, are so catchy it's hard to listen to without "gettin' jiggy with it"
Ives's Symphony #1: I think it's a student work or graduation piece. I also think it's his least-known symphony. It's a lot of fun.
Mendelssohn's #1 and #5: I don't know if I'm supposed to, but I like them. I know #5 has a nickname, but #3 and 4 are much better known.
Tchaikovsky's #3: probably the least popular of his numbered symphonies. I think the last movement's a real turkey, but the others make up for it.
Tchaikovsky's _Manfred_: everyone's heard of it, but I think people don't perform it and listen to it much. Maybe because it requires an organ, or because it lacks a number. 
Gliere's #3: already mentioned, it has long stretches of exotic beauty that remind me of Stravinsky's _Firebird_.
Shostakovich's #9: a fun piece, but I don't think people play it that often.
Prokofiev's "other" symphonies: #1, 5, 7, and maybe 6 are well-known, the others not so much. I made a point of listening to the others and was surprised how accessible they are.
Honegger's #1
Korngold's Symphony in F# Major: seems like a fine piece to me.


----------



## hpowders

Ives Symphony #3. Very moving and nostalgic for a New England that has long since disappeared.

Usually overshadowed by Ives Second Symphony.


----------



## PeterPowerPop

Bobotox said:


> *Franz Lachner*: He wrote 8 symphonies, of which only 3 are recorded. His 5th won some prestigious prize at the time. It is lengthy but I keep coming back to it. I would love to hear his 6th symphony since Schumann said it to be "twice as good as his 5th", and believe me, his 5th is excellent.


*Franz Lachner - Symphony No. 5 in C minor, Op. 52 "Passionata"* (1835)

*Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra (Košice) / Paul Robinson*






Amazon.com


----------



## PeterPowerPop

RandallPeterListens said:


> Sorry, too lazy to search the thread, but has anyone mentioned Alberic Magnard's Symphony #3? That's the winner of his four.


*Magnard - Symphony No. 3 in B flat minor, Op. 11* (1902)

*Malmö Symphony Orchestra / Thomas Sanderling*






Amazon.com


----------



## PeterPowerPop

Rhombic said:


> Lyatoshynsky's 3rd symphony rarely lets the listener to end up feeling indifferent. Most people will enjoy it very much. Mid 20th century but quite traditional in most of his approaches in the symphony, never too experimental, easy to follow and well orchestrated. It should be an impressive staple socialist realism symphony.


*Lyatoshynshky - Symphony No. 3 in B minor, Op. 50* (1951)

*Ukrainian State Symphony Orchestra / Theodore Kuchar*






Amazon.com


----------



## PeterPowerPop

TrevBus said:


> Also in Symphoinies from Portugal you might want out to check out Fernando Lopes-Graca. His only Sym.(simply sym. for orch.)is a gem. As are his 2 piano Concertos. Both sym and con. are on the Naxos label.


*Lopes-Graça - Symphony for Orchestra* (1944)

*Royal Scottish National Orchestra / Álvaro Cassuto*






Amazon.com


----------



## PeterPowerPop

Copperears said:


> I'm glad to hear someone else here mention David Diamond! I picked up a recording of his 2nd and 4th symphonies along with the Concerto for Small Orchestra, dared to praise it online somewhere years ago and got rabidly shot down by some intemperate lout, who no doubt only enjoys "Best Classical Music for Xmas" compilations or something.
> 
> Thoroughly enjoyable listen.


I agree completely. I fell in love with the music of David Diamond when I heard his _Rounds for String Orchestra_ on the radio (Australia's ABC Classic FM) years ago:






I subsequently bought every release in Delos's series of Diamond's orchestral works (they're all now on Naxos), and a few others besides.

As for the symphonies, I think they're mighty, mighty good. Here's No. 2:

*Diamond - Symphony No. 2* (1942-1943)

*Seattle Symphony Orchestra / Gerard Schwarz*

*I: Adagio funebre*





*II: Allegro vivo*





*III: Andante*





*IV: Allegro vigoroso*


----------



## Radames

Robert Ward Symphonies. Bortkiewicz, Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2, Emil Młynarski - Symphony in F major, "Polonia"


----------



## EDaddy

Scriabin's Symphony #3


----------



## bigshot

Rimsky Korsakov's Antar... but the problem is that there are some really bad performances of it out there. The BIS recording with Bakels and the Malaysian Philharmonic is spectacular. The recording and performance are in a league of their own.


----------



## hpowders

Franz Schmidt #4. Mehta/Vienna Philharmonic


----------



## Torkelburger

Kurt Weill's Symphony No. 2


----------



## Torkelburger

Bohuslav Martinu's Symphony No. 4


----------



## Bruce

Allow me to add Poul Ruders's Symphony No. 1

I've never heard a funeral march quite like the last movement of this symphony. 

Also, Zygmunt Noskowski's First Symphony. A Brahmsian work, but beautiful in its own right.


----------



## Rhombic

Henri Dutilleux #1
Fabulous combination of colours and "harmonies".


----------



## ToneDeaf&Senile

I don't consider this in any way a masterpiece, certainly not as a whole, but have long been quite fond of the final movement of Vojtěch Matyáš Jírovec's (Adalbert Gyrowetz, 1763-1850) Symphony in E-flat Op.8, sometimes subtitled "Jupiter". The work is solidly classical with a sturm und drang element.


----------



## maestro267

Rhombic said:


> Henri Dutilleux #1
> Fabulous combination of colours and "harmonies".


Great work, this. Interesting that he starts the symphony with a Passacaglia. Brahms ended his 4th with one.

Dutilleux's 2nd is also a great work, which features a smaller ensemble (including harpsichord) in addition to the main orchestra.


----------



## violadude

Any of Henze's Symphonies.


----------



## DeepR

EDaddy said:


> Scriabin's Symphony #3


An absolutely fantastic piece of music which I have often heard being ruined by weak recordings or over the top performances (the music doesn't need that at all).
Ashkenazy from the complete symphonies set is just perfect.


----------



## hpowders

Pettersson Symphony No. 7. Approachable. Devastating.


----------



## ptr

Willhelm Stenhammar - Symphony No 2, like an amalgam of Bruckner, Sibelius and Nielsen! Very approachable Swedish romantic!

When I need to watch TV (no apparatus in my house) I go down half a mile of the country lane where I live to the closest neighbour and occupy his home movie theatre (maybe one a month), tonight there was an hour long documentary with Herbert Blomstedt rehearsing and talking about this symphony with the Gothenburg Symphony that was quite interesting, Blomstedt said something profound about "art" (in my freeish translation); Art that you understand immediately aren't very profound, only art that take work and sacrifice to be understood will be eternal in value! (Unsurprisingly, I quite agree!)

/ptr


----------



## Albert7

Perhaps Scheonberg's two Chamber Symphonies are underrated?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_Symphony_No._2_%28Schoenberg%29


----------



## ptr

albertfallickwang said:


> Perhaps Scheonberg's two Chamber Symphonies are underrated?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_Symphony_No._2_%28Schoenberg%29


By some perhaps but not in general, these have a quite a following!

/ptr


----------



## dgee

The second Schoenberg chamber symphony is lesser known - my opinion is that it it less compelling but then the first is one of the best things ever. Hear it live if you can - the chamber music dynamic is irreplaceable but the incredible working of the material and raw expressionism drives the experience. The second is interesting but not a milestone like the first

Following on from violadude - Henze's symphonies are all good but 6 is the pick of the bunch for me - Tom Service calls it angry expressionism (which would explain why I love it)! But most of the later ones (4 onwards) are worth listening to in their own way

I imagine Norgard (3,5 and 6), Honegger (I like 3,4,5), Szymanowski (3,4), Walton (1,2) and Vanhal (some lovely Sturm and Drang) have already been covered


----------



## Guest

The sixth is certainly the one that caught my ears. For Henze and for Nørgård both, come to think of it. And Mahler.


----------



## Blancrocher

Malipiero's "Sinfonia del mare" is a light and very pretty work.






Even among Hindemith's symphonies, I think his "Sinfonia serena" may be under-esteemed.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4H_5mhieTIu4G0iuCvEG79ozJFPVLjMs

A more recent discovery that I've taken a liking to is Wolfgang Rihm's Symphony "Nähe Fern."

Brahms fans may have some particular interest in this one of Rihm's orchestral works--though since hearing this I find all kinds of Brahmsian resonances in Rihm's work.

Finally, I'll mention Elliott Carter's "Symphonia" in order to make a little plug for Tom Service's eclectic "Symphony Guide":

http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...liott-carter-symphonia-bubbles-colours-energy


----------



## jim prideaux

Grechaninov 1st-if you hold Borodin, Glazunov or Kalinnikov in high esteem this is the one for you (if you have not already heard it of course!)


----------



## 20centrfuge

Not sure if anyone has said it but I will say

Check out Samuel Barber's Symphony No. 1, middle movement is achingly beautiful
I also would say check out Poul Ruder's Symphony 4. It is unique, modern, and very listenable.


----------



## hpowders

Franz Schmidt Symphony No. 4.


----------



## Azol

Actually reading this thread encouraged me to register and post - I am on the constant lookout for obscure composers more or less in "late romantic" vein. I did a couple of searches and seems like not many aware of *Erkki Melartin* and his six symphonies, of which I especially recommend his *Third Symphony*





Also, *Ludolf Nielsen* is very underrated composer, his charming *Symphony No.2* being the highlight for me





I would agree to all previous suggestions of works by Wilhelm Stenhammar, Alberic Magnard, Joseph Joachim Raff, Hans Rott and Richard Wetz.


----------



## Badinerie

Glad Honegger's Symphony no 1 has had a mention. Ive always wondered why it doesnt get more exposure. I much prefer it to the No 2 or no 3.

I can heartily recommend the performance on this set. The whole set is marvelous.


----------



## Becca

I would put almost anything by Eduard Tubin and Granville Bantock. Also Roy Harris' 3rd, Edmund Rubbra's 5th

Regarding Bantock, while he is not well known now, Sibelius dedicated his 3rd symphony to him. Also Elgar described Bantock as (approx. quote) 'the best of all of us.'


----------



## tdc

dgee said:


> The second Schoenberg chamber symphony is lesser known - my opinion is that it it less compelling but then the first is one of the best things ever. Hear it live if you can - the chamber music dynamic is irreplaceable but the incredible working of the material and raw expressionism drives the experience. The second is interesting but not a milestone like the first


This seems to be the consensus on TC, but I've had the opposite experience. I do agree that the 1st Chamber Symphony is more innovative, but innovation aside I find the 2nd more interesting. The 2nd strikes me as a very deep, and profound work where the 1st is more of a "surface" work, though undeniably very well-crafted.


----------



## manyene

First post - hello everyone: I would endorse Azol's enthusiasm for the Melartin 3rd Symphony as the best of a cycle that is still relatively unknown, though the 5th isn't far behind. The only current recording, on Ondine, is OK but the work really needs something better - Naxos might eventually oblige?


----------



## Azol

Okay, here is another name for you: *Carl Reinecke* and his *Third Symphony* (Second is also very good, haven't heard his First yet)






Hold tight - if you are a fan of Bruckner (as I am), you definitely should hear the *Symphony No.1 *by *Frederic Cliffe*, an English composer, "English Bruckner" if you like. What can I say? Amazing!


----------



## DeepR

I'm currently listening to this recording of Vasily Kalinnikov - Symphony No. 1 (he was mentioned before). Really enjoyable so far, wonderful uplifting first movement!


----------



## Dim7

dgee said:


> The second Schoenberg chamber symphony is lesser known - my opinion is that it it less compelling but then the first is one of the best things ever. Hear it live if you can - the chamber music dynamic is irreplaceable but the incredible working of the material and raw expressionism drives the experience. The second is interesting but not a milestone like the first
> 
> Following on from violadude - Henze's symphonies are all good but 6 is the pick of the bunch for me - Tom Service calls it angry expressionism (which would explain why I love it)! But most of the later ones (4 onwards) are worth listening to in their own way
> 
> I imagine Norgard (3,5 and 6), Honegger (I like 3,4,5), Szymanowski (3,4), Walton (1,2) and Vanhal (some lovely Sturm and Drang) have already been covered


I find the first chamber symphony somehow disturbing, chaotic and malformed - how pretty is the "atonal" piano concerto compared to it! I much prefer the second chamber symphony, though largely thanks to the first movement - the second leaves me a bit cold.


----------



## Mahlerian

Dim7 said:


> I find the first chamber symphony somehow disturbing, chaotic and malformed - how pretty is the "atonal" piano concerto compared to it! I much prefer the second chamber symphony, though largely thanks to the first movement - the second leaves me a bit cold.


The First Chamber Symphony is energetic, tightly knit, and utterly gorgeous to me, and I've studied the score! Take some time, get to know those wonderful themes, and see how your perception changes over time.


----------



## hpowders

Schuman Symphonies Nos 4, 6, 8 and 10.

Mennin Symphony No. 7.

Schmidt Symphony No. 4.

Harris Symphony No. 7.


----------



## downhillputz

It is almost impossible for me to comprehend that Kalivoda's 5th & 6th symphonies are not considered mainstream concert repertoire. They are hypnotically beautiful. All of the symphonic compositions of Niels Gade also deserve far more acclaim than they receive.


----------



## rodagl

Korngold's Symphony in F sharp major.


----------



## motoboy

I love this thread! My checking account doesn't.


----------



## starthrower

Karl Hartmann
Laszlo Lajtha
Alexandre Tansman


----------



## LHB

Literally all of the Scriabin Symphonies.


----------



## Beban

Pietro Mascagni (1863-1945) 
I absolutely adore the brightness, rhythmicity, and reoccuring episodes of narrativeness and ethereal pastoral archaic sentimental calls in woodwinds in the last movement.. 
Mascagni Symphony LINK

Countess Teodora von Lumbe née Pejačević (1885-1923) 
An early hollywoodian-style symphony. I love the mystical fourth movement.. it takes me on a journey to somewhere very special to the wagnerian Pejačević, enchanted and obsessed in her early days with northern mythology and fairytales.. 
Pejačević Symphony LINK


----------



## Weston

You want a great big honkin' loud monster of a symphony? Try Rangstrom No. 4. "Invovatio" for organ and orchestra. I listened at work yesterday and just about had to stop everything. I couldn't focus. It's so large and over the top, it is to composition as Shatner is to acting.


----------



## EDaddy

Mahlerian said:


> The First Chamber Symphony is energetic, tightly knit, and utterly gorgeous to me, and I've studied the score! Take some time, get to know those wonderful themes, and see how your perception changes over time.


I just donned my best set of headphones, closed my eyes and immersed myself in this performance of Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony 1, Op. 9: 




My initial thoughts and impressions (mind you after one careful listen): Energetic - Check. Tightly knit - perhaps, ok: Check (Definitely tightly _something_). Gorgeous?... Hmmm. While certainly not a descriptive that comes to _my_ mind, perhaps we simply have a different emotional vocabulary set or framework from which we draw. If the meaning of gorgeous is to respond to a piece of music with a general sense of stress, agitation, slightly elevated blood pressure, a gradual tightening of the jaw and, well... you get the idea... then, yes, I suppose this music is quite gorgeous indeed! Additionally, try as I did (and I really _did_ try!), I'm certainly hard-pressed to hear anything resembling a theme, much less a "wonderful" one.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with dim7 on this one: If not malformed, then certainly disturbing and chaotic.  Different strokes definitely seems to apply here.

As for lesser-known symphonies you should hear... how about Rautavaara: Symphony No. 7 & 8?


----------



## Mahlerian

Trust me, the themes are there, and they're wonderful. Don't you hear the melting romanticism? The tender lyricism? The vigorous and yet complex rhythmic interplay?

There's nothing disturbing about the piece. There's certainly nothing chaotic about it. I'll tell you the same thing I told Dim7. Get to know the work. It will repay any effort you put into it far more than you could imagine.

If you're really convinced that atonality is the problem you have with Schoenberg, the Chamber Symphony, as a tonal work, shouldn't present any problem (of course it does to many, and that's because "atonality" really isn't the cause of their difficulties).


----------



## EDaddy

Mahlerian said:


> Trust me, the themes are there, and they're wonderful. Don't you hear the melting romanticism? The tender lyricism? The vigorous and yet complex rhythmic interplay?
> 
> There's nothing disturbing about the piece. There's certainly nothing chaotic about it. I'll tell you the same thing I told Dim7. Get to know the work. It will repay any effort you put into it far more than you could imagine.
> 
> If you're really convinced that atonality is the problem you have with Schoenberg, the Chamber Symphony, as a tonal work, shouldn't present any problem (of course it does to many, and that's because "atonality" really isn't the cause of their difficulties).


It's funny I really just don't hear the melting romanticism _or_ the tender lyricism, and I promise it's not for lack of trying. I do, however, hear complex rhythmic interplay so that's at least something we can agree on!  I hear a lot of _passion_ in this work and in the performance I absorbed, but it doesn't strike me as romantic per se.

To give you a frame of reference in Schoenberg's music to perhaps where I _can_ still hear some of the romanticism and lyricism of which you speak, his Verklärte Nacht comes to mind. Some of it is still right up against the edge of my "comfort zone" if you will, but a lot of it still contains enough consonance for my ears and taste. But I admit I have to be in the mood to listen to it.


----------



## Mahlerian

EDaddy said:


> It's funny I really just don't hear the melting romanticism _or_ the tender lyricism, and I promise it's not for lack of trying. I do, however, hear complex rhythmic interplay so that's at least something we can agree on!  I hear a lot of _passion_ in this work and in the performance I absorbed, but it doesn't strike me as romantic per se.
> 
> To give you a frame of reference in Schoenberg's music to perhaps where I _can_ still hear some of the romanticism and lyricism of which you speak, his Verklärte Nacht comes to mind. Some of it is still right up against the edge of my "comfort zone" if you will, but a lot of it still contains enough consonance for my ears and taste. But I admit I have to be in the mood to listen to it.


Well, the work is Romantic music in the sense that it is part of the same era and aesthetic as Wagner, Strauss, Mahler, and so on. I personally hear it as romantic in the descriptive sense because of its emphasis on lyricism and the intricate chromatic beauty of its harmony and melody, an emphasis which permeates all of his work.

You said you listened to the work a single time. You didn't hear the themes at all. How can you then pronounce it "chaotic and disturbing"? You don't have much of a basis for pronouncing much of any judgment on its inner qualities.

The Chamber Symphony really isn't far from Verklarte Nacht at all (neither is Schoenberg's later music). It's more compact, sure, and contains a few other harmonic elements (such as quartal chords, built from fourths rather than thirds). But all of that serves a definite purpose. The compression is an aid to the energy, the uplifting buoyant mood of the outer sections, as well as the the playful menace of the scherzo in the second section and the melancholy and tenderness of the adagio in the third.


----------



## TxllxT

elgars ghost said:


> Hi all.
> 
> This is a blatant plug for Soviet composer Mikhail Nosyrev. He wrote 4 symphonies between 1965 and 1980 (fine works with pungent traces of moderns like DSCH and Prokofiev as well as more traditional elements) AFTER he spent 10 years in a Gulag on trumped-up charges while he was a young violinist in an ad-hoc Leningrad orchestra during the WWII siege - the sentence was originally death by firing squad. After release in 1953 he spent many years as a provincial conductor and part-time composer in what amounted to internal exile. He was only totally rehabilitated in 1989, 8 years after his death aged 57. He may not have been a composer from the absolute top-drawer but his long ordeal certainly infused his works with Shostakovichian elements of irony and tragedy and deserve to be heard. It was Shostakovich who in 1967 actually endorsed Nosyrev's joining the Soviet Composers Union after he was initially rejected. His son remarked that if DSCH's music represented what it was like to experience the THREAT of arrest then his father's works depicted what it was like AFTER being arrested. These and other works were originally available on 5 Olympia discs - I imagine more of his works would have been recorded had Olympia


----------



## TxllxT

Markez said:


> Johann Christian Bach - A composer everyone should make habit of listening to... His later symphonic works are amongst his best, particularly his symphony in B Flat - arguably his most famous work today.


----------



## TxllxT

*Khachaturian - Symphonies*


----------



## TxllxT

*Reinhold Glière - Symphonies*


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Ilya Muromets is such a great symphony. The legend of the Russian Samson!


----------



## EDaddy

Mahlerian said:


> Well, the work is Romantic music in the sense that it is part of the same era and aesthetic as Wagner, Strauss, Mahler, and so on.


It may have been a part of the same era as Wagner, Strauss and Mahler, but I can hardly agree that it's born of the same aesthetic, from a musical stanpoint anyway.



Mahlerian said:


> I personally hear it as romantic in the descriptive sense because of its emphasis on lyricism and the intricate chromatic beauty of its harmony and melody, an emphasis which permeates all of his work.


I simply don't hear the lyricism or the "intricate chromatic beauty of its harmony and melody" of which you speak. Doesn't mean it's not there. It's just not how I hear it. I do hear a lot of chromaticism.



Mahlerian said:


> You said you listened to the work a single time. You didn't hear the themes at all. How can you then pronounce it "chaotic and disturbing"?


Much the way we seem to have entirely different ways of hearing this piece (and I therefore suspect other pieces as well), I think we, too, have a different concept of what constitutes a "theme". Perhaps we need to define our terms. For one, themes usually repeat at some point (otherwise what makes them themes?) and, unless I missed something, I don't recall anything in the entire work - theme or otherwise - ever repeat itself. If it did, it was done very loosely. I heard _motifs_, abeit very abstract ones, but never themes per se.



Mahlerian said:


> You don't have much of a basis for pronouncing much of any judgment on its inner qualities.


Perhaps. But having studied theory extensively and being a reasonably successful musician/composer of 30 years, and having perfect pitch among other things, I guess I consider myself a pretty quick study and decent judge of what is "going on". As such, I think I do have a pretty solid basis for pronouncing a certain degree of judgement on the inner qualities of this piece. Perhaps in this instance I could stand to give it a second listen. My only reservation in doing so is that, for me, once was enough to at least ascertain that, it's just not my cup of tea. I hear things rather quickly and believe I have enough knowledge and artistic/musical aptitude, if you will, to accurately form an opinion. For what do we really have at the end of the day but our own opinions and responses as individual "observers"?



Mahlerian said:


> The Chamber Symphony really isn't far from Verklarte Nacht at all (neither is Schoenberg's later music).


Again, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I find the vast majority, if not all, of Schoenberg's later music to be quite far (and musically different) from Verklarte Nacht, although you can certainly hear the seeds of his departure taking root.



Mahlerian said:


> It's more compact, sure, and contains a few other harmonic elements (such as quartal chords, built from fourths rather than thirds). But all of that serves a definite purpose. The compression is an aid to the energy, the uplifting buoyant mood of the outer sections, as well as the the playful menace of the scherzo in the second section and the melancholy and tenderness of the adagio in the third.


All this is mere intellectual, analytical, subjective triviality to me. I don't particularly care if it's made up of simple triads, stacked fourths or abrasive tri-tone clusters. I either like what I hear or I don't. It either makes "sense" to my senses or it doesn't. It either leaves me wanting for more or it doesn't. And that's something I can determine pretty quickly. Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage was a composition that is completely built from fourths; in fact, it is an exercise in fourths... and I love that composition. It still manages to be very musical to my ears and has an almost Debussy-esque La Mer feeling about it.

I don't run math when I listen to music, only when I play it (sometimes, though only for the most complex of pieces as I'd like to think that after 30 plus years of playing it's mostly just in my fingers at this point). Perhaps that's where you and I differ. In the math. Certainly in the aesthetic.


----------



## Mahlerian

EDaddy said:


> It may have been a part of the same era as Wagner, Strauss and Mahler, but I can hardly agree that it's born of the same aesthetic, from a musical stanpoint anyway.


Your agreement is immaterial to whether or not Schoenberg's music shares an aesthetic with other German late romantics. He does, and yours would be a minority opinion of one if you took it to any serious discussion on the matter.



EDaddy said:


> I simply don't hear the lyricism or the "intricate chromatic beauty of its harmony and melody" of which you speak. Doesn't mean it's not there. It's just not how I hear it. I do hear a lot of chromaticism.


You said that it's "chaotic and disturbing." If you intend this in any kind of meaningful sense, surely it's in conflict with my description?



EDaddy said:


> Much the way we seem to have entirely different ways of hearing this piece (and I therefore suspect other pieces as well), I think we, too, have a different concept of what constitutes a "theme". Perhaps we need to define our terms. For one, themes usually repeat at some point (otherwise what makes them themes?) and, unless I missed something, I don't recall anything in the entire work - theme or otherwise - ever repeat itself. If it did, it was done very loosely. I heard _motifs_, abeit very abstract ones, but never themes per se.


What's the difference between an "abstract motif" and a non-abstract one? Which one of these themes is built from "abstract" motifs, Schoenberg's or Mahler's?









As for the themes in Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony not repeating, you simply didn't hear them. The work has themes in each of its sections, and also brings many of them back at the end, transformed, yes, but recognizable. Take the second theme of the first part, for example:









The top line is the head of the theme as presented near the beginning of the work, the middle line from the developmental section in the center, and the bottom of the start of the theme as heard again at the end. The problem with drawing out more thematic connections is not that there are too few, but rather too many.



EDaddy said:


> Perhaps. But having studied theory extensively and being a reasonably successful musician/composer of 30 years, and having perfect pitch among other things, I guess I consider myself a pretty quick study and decent judge of what is "going on". As such, I think I do have a pretty solid basis for pronouncing a certain degree of judgement on the inner qualities of this piece. Perhaps in this instance I could stand to give it a second listen. My only reservation in doing so is that, for me, once was enough to at least ascertain that, it's just not my cup of tea. I hear things rather quickly and believe I have enough knowledge and artistic/musical aptitude, if you will, to accurately form an opinion. For what do we really have at the end of the day but our own opinions and responses as individual "observers"?


Well, in this case, you can take my word for it, as someone who knows Schoenberg's music well, including the Chamber Symphony, which I love dearly as a masterwork on par with any you can name.



EDaddy said:


> Again, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I find the vast majority, if not all, of Schoenberg's later music to be quite far (and musically different) from Verklarte Nacht, although you can certainly hear the seeds of his departure taking root.


Again, your disagreement is really irrelevant to the fact that Schoenberg stayed very consistent in his style throughout his life. All of his work is rooted in tradition. Additionally, you have shown no real awareness of Schoenberg's work. How can you say, contradicting the composer and people who actually listen to his music and know it well, that his later work is musically distant from it?



EDaddy said:


> All this is mere intellectual, analytical, subjective triviality to me. I don't particularly care if it's made up of simple triads, stacked fourths or abrasive tri-tone clusters. I either like what I hear or I don't. It either makes "sense" to my senses or it doesn't. It either leaves me wanting for more or it doesn't. And that's something I can determine pretty quickly. Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage was a composition that is completely built from fourths; in fact, it is an exercise in fourths... and I love that composition. It still manages to be very musical to my ears and has an almost Debussy-esque La Mer feeling about it.
> 
> I don't run math when I listen to music, only when I play it (sometimes, though only for the most complex of pieces as I'd like to think that after 30 plus years of playing it's mostly just in my fingers at this point). Perhaps that's where you and I differ. In the math. Certainly in the aesthetic.


You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes "intellectual" or "analytical" if saying something is buoyant or melancholic falls under those descriptions to you.

I don't care about math when listening to or composing music, and I didn't say anything about math. Schoenberg's music is no more related to math than anyone else's.


----------



## EDaddy

Mahlerian said:


> Your agreement is immaterial to whether or not Schoenberg's music shares an aesthetic with other German late romantics. He does, and yours would be a minority opinion of one if you took it to any serious discussion on the matter.
> 
> You said that it's "chaotic and disturbing." If you intend this in any kind of meaningful sense, surely it's in conflict with my description?
> 
> What's the difference between an "abstract motif" and a non-abstract one? Which one of these themes is built from "abstract" motifs, Schoenberg's or Mahler's?
> 
> View attachment 78584
> 
> 
> As for the themes in Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony not repeating, you simply didn't hear them. The work has themes in each of its sections, and also brings many of them back at the end, transformed, yes, but recognizable. Take the second theme of the first part, for example:
> 
> View attachment 78585
> 
> 
> The top line is the head of the theme as presented near the beginning of the work, the middle line from the developmental section in the center, and the bottom of the start of the theme as heard again at the end. The problem with drawing out more thematic connections is not that there are too few, but rather too many.
> 
> Well, in this case, you can take my word for it, as someone who knows Schoenberg's music well, including the Chamber Symphony, which I love dearly as a masterwork on par with any you can name.
> 
> Again, your disagreement is really irrelevant to the fact that Schoenberg stayed very consistent in his style throughout his life. All of his work is rooted in tradition. Additionally, you have shown no real awareness of Schoenberg's work. How can you say, contradicting the composer and people who actually listen to his music and know it well, that his later work is musically distant from it?
> 
> You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes "intellectual" or "analytical" if saying something is buoyant or melancholic falls under those descriptions to you.
> 
> I don't care about math when listening to or composing music, and I didn't say anything about math. Schoenberg's music is no more related to math than anyone else's.


Tomato... tomauto, potato, potauto... let's call the whole thing off! :tiphat:


----------



## Mahlerian

EDaddy said:


> Tomato... tomauto, potato, potauto... let's call the whole thing off! :tiphat:


Discussion is important. Understanding is important. Why are you dismissing them? If you don't believe in these things, why are you on a classical forum in the first place?

If you make a statement, and it's questioned, you should either defend that statement or back down from it. I find the nonsense that people bandy about surrounding Schoenberg offensive, and I find your characterization of his Chamber Symphony so absurdly off the wall that you might as well have told me that Pachelbel's Canon is a depiction of the horrors of war.


----------



## Klassic

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet (I don't have time to read through all 13 pages here), but I very much enjoy *Stenhammar Symphony No.1:* 




I enjoy this symphony more than his second symphony. I heard he thought this piece was garbage, but this would not be the first time a composer thought this about a piece.

What about *Ernst Bloch's excellent Symphony in C sharp*? I love this Symphony:


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Borodin's symphonies 1 and 2, Balakirev's Symphony No. 1. All of them are in about the same league as Dvorak, imo.


----------



## ShadowRaz

Really awesome stuff to enjoy more symphonic stuff every once in a while rather than only the eternal repeating party music, some good advice here currently listening to Dvorak's no.1


----------



## Strange Magic

I have enjoyed for many decades Arthur Bliss' _A Colour Symphony_. I don't know if it has been previously mentioned in this long thread. I currently own the Naxos CD, which pairs the symphony with Bliss' music from _Adam Zero_. I offer this symphony with my recommendation; some others may like it also, upon hearing it.

Herewith also an unsolicited opinion on the discussion of the Schoenberg Chamber Symphony between EDaddy and Mahlerian: there can be no stronger argument against the efficacy of attempting to too vigorously proselytize another into compliance with our own views. Neither participant in this exchange can have been pleased with the overall result.


----------



## Mahlerian

Strange Magic said:


> Herewith also an unsolicited opinion on the discussion of the Schoenberg Chamber Symphony between EDaddy and Mahlerian: there can be no stronger argument against the efficacy of attempting to too vigorously proselytize another into compliance with our own views. Neither participant in this exchange can have been pleased with the overall result.


Who was trying to proselytize? EDaddy was saying things that were factually incorrect and I set out to correct his mistakes. Is a scientist who argues with a non-scientist trying to "proselytize" for science???


----------



## Strange Magic

Mahlerian said:


> Who was trying to proselytize? EDaddy was saying things that were factually incorrect and I set out to correct his mistakes. Is a scientist who argues with a non-scientist trying to "proselytize" for science???


I take it you are pleased with the overall result.


----------



## Mahlerian

Strange Magic said:


> I take it you are pleased with the overall result.


That's completely beside the point of whether or not I was trying to proselytize.

Obviously, I would have preferred it if EDaddy wasn't so afraid of Schoenberg that he would continue to believe and make up utter lies about his music.


----------



## Bulldog

Mahlerian said:


> Discussion is important. Understanding is important. Why are you dismissing them? If you don't believe in these things, why are you on a classical forum in the first place?
> 
> If you make a statement, and it's questioned, you should either defend that statement or back down from it. I find the nonsense that people bandy about surrounding Schoenberg offensive, and I find your characterization of his Chamber Symphony so absurdly off the wall that you might as well have told me that Pachelbel's Canon is a depiction of the horrors of war.


You certainly are persistent, but I find your wording extreme and insulting to the other member.


----------



## Howling Moon

Over the last year, the music I keep coming back to is Glazunov. I have the symphonies by Serebrier and Fedoseyev. It doesn't matter which I listen to - the music is wonderful. I suppose I prefer the third, fifth and seventh symphonies, but they are all great. Why is he so unknown?


----------



## KetchupOnIce

Johann Baptist Vanhal's symphonies are very good, perfect for a Sturm und Drang lover. I recommend the g minor, c minor, and a flat major symphonies.


----------



## Orfeo

Howling Moon said:


> Over the last year, the music I keep coming back to is Glazunov. I have the symphonies by Serebrier and Fedoseyev. It doesn't matter which I listen to - the music is wonderful. I suppose I prefer the third, fifth and seventh symphonies, but they are all great. Why is he so unknown?


A strange, unexplainable, nonsensical phenomenon, given the solid quality of his music and his accomplishments.


----------



## Animal the Drummer

I've had this very discussion with a musical friend before now. We're both lovers of the Russian repertoire and he's a big Glazunov fan, but I'm afraid he hasn't succeeded in fully enlisting me. I do like "The Seasons" and some of his other ballet music very much, but I find the symphonies stubbornly unmemorable. Sorry!


----------



## scratchgolf

Animal the Drummer said:


> I've had this very discussion with a musical friend before now. We're both lovers of the Russian repertoire and he's a big Glazunov fan, but I'm afraid he hasn't succeeded in fully enlisting me. I do like "The Seasons" and some of his other ballet music very much, but I find the symphonies stubbornly unmemorable. Sorry!


This is fair and Glazunov's symphonies can be tough nuts to crack. 4 and 7 were and are still my favorites but I don't pay them nearly enough attention. Isn't it wonderful a composer like Glazunov exists, along with hundreds of others, who have worthy catalogs remaining unexplored to many of us?


----------



## Orfeo

^^^
I don't think his symphonies are tough nuts to crack. Quite elusive, yes, but they reveal themselves the more you get familiarized with them. However, take them on their own terms; you're not going to get a Tchaikovsky out of them, but a nice, attractive blend of the Russianness and the cosmopolitanism. A great place to start is his Sixth (Serebrier/RSNO or Fedoseyev/USSR Radio & TV Large SO or Butt/LSO are the best recordings for this work), then the Fourth.

His piano and orchestral works (Sonatas I & II, Theme et Variations, The Sea, Stenka Razin, From the Middle Ages, etc.) as well as his chamber music are well worth exploring, offering a more innovative, wide ranging side of his overall creative musical art. His ballet music is arguably his chief attribute, and yes, the Seasons is his more important work (not overlooking Raymonda or Lady Soubrette). 

For any sceptics here, just go slowly, and these works (most of them very good, some great) will reveal themselves rewardingly.


----------



## hpowders

Once again I must nominate Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4.

If you are addicted to Richard Strauss' lush orchestrations, then this symphony could be just right for you.


----------



## Alfacharger

Some lesser know symphonies I return to again and again.

Herrmann's first and only symphony.






The very approachable 1st Symphony of Carter.


----------



## JosefinaHW

i went to your blog and the latest entry is 2011. Are you no longer interested in continuing?


----------



## JosefinaHW

Falstaft said:


> This seems like as opportune a place as any to plug a blog my colleague and I just started: Unsung Symphonies: http://unsungsymphonies.blogspot.com/
> 
> Inspired in large part by threads like this which show how much repertoire is out there but underexposed, we're trying to give some much needed attention to the world of symphonies outside the main candidates. The focus right now is on 20th century works, but we'll likely expand once (or if!) the blog gets on its feet. Right now we've talked about Walter Piston's 3rd and Per Norgard's 2nd. And we keep the tone light, as you'll probably find out immediately!


Hi, I went to your blog and the last post was in 2011. Are you continuing the project in some other location? If so, please let me know where. TY


----------



## Mal

Jon Leifs (1899-1968) - Hekla (More a tone poem than a symphony - amazing anyway...)


----------



## jim prideaux

Orfeo said:


> ^^^
> I don't think his symphonies are tough nuts to crack. Quite elusive, yes, but they reveal themselves the more you get familiarized with them. However, take them on their own terms; you're not going to get a Tchaikovsky out of them, but a nice, attractive blend of the Russianness and the cosmopolitanism. A great place to start is his Sixth (Serebrier/RSNO or Fedoseyev/USSR Radio & TV Large SO or Butt/LSO are the best recordings for this work), then the Fourth.
> 
> His piano and orchestral works (Sonatas I & II, Theme et Variations, The Sea, Stenka Razin, From the Middle Ages, etc.) as well as his chamber music are well worth exploring, offering a more innovative, wide ranging side of his overall creative musical art. His ballet music is arguably his chief attribute, and yes, the Seasons is his more important work (not overlooking Raymonda or Lady Soubrette).
> 
> For any sceptics here, just go slowly, and these works (most of them very good, some great) will reveal themselves rewardingly.


can only agree.....while Glazunov seems to be generally considered conservative there really is much to enjoy in many of the symphonies and as ever dholling/orfeo 'hits the nail on the head'...I recently found it interesting to learn that the last time Glazunov was performed at the Proms was 1919!...this in itself perhaps being reflective of a general failure to really appreciate the man's music......

Dvorak-3rd movement 2nd Symphony...have listened to this repeatedly today...Suitner and Belohlavek and as with the slow movement of the 3rd evidence that there is much to be gained with a number of composers when we go 'beyond' the more well known works!


----------



## Orfeo

jim prideaux said:


> can only agree.....while Glazunov seems to be generally considered conservative there really is much to enjoy in many of the symphonies and as ever dholling/orfeo 'hits the nail on the head'...I recently found it interesting to learn that the last time Glazunov was performed at the *Proms was 1919*!...this in itself perhaps being reflective of a general failure to really appreciate the man's music......
> 
> Dvorak-3rd movement 2nd Symphony...have listened to this repeatedly today...Suitner and Belohlavek and as with the slow movement of the 3rd evidence that there is much to be gained with a number of composers when we go 'beyond' the more well known works!


I recall reading that a couple of years back (was that when Sir Henry Wood performed Glazunov's Sixth Symphony?). And the BBC Proms missed the golden opportunity to perform his music for the 150th anniversary of his birth (predictably, of course, they did not miss Sibelius and Nielsen, though they played it safer with the great Dane while they also missed Dukas, somehow). If that's not a glaring avoidance, or overlook, or commercialism on steroids, I don't know what is.

I am happy to report, though, that Gergiev/Kirov will perform "Raymonda" at Washington's Kennedy Center this coming February. A nice redemption of sorts.

Speaking of Dvorak, what do you think of Suitner's recordings of Dvorak's early symphonies in comparison with Jarvi (which I'm vaguely familiar with)? Suitner seems to make cuts in the first two symphonies while Jarvi, I think, offers a more complete picture.


----------



## jim prideaux

^^^^^^^task for the next few days-will compare Suitner, Jarvi and Belohlavek performing the 3rd and Suitner and Belohlavek in the 2nd-my expertise in this form of closer 'analysis' is limited however.......

actually attended two Proms last summer-one Sibelius 5/6/7 and the other included Nielsen 2nd and as they are two of my favourite composers I am unlikely to complain but I do still find it disconcerting that composers such as Glazunov (Balakirev, Myaskovsky etc) who have written such impressive and enjoyable works seem forgotten.....


----------



## Howling Moon

Animal the Drummer said:


> I've had this very discussion with a musical friend before now. We're both lovers of the Russian repertoire and he's a big Glazunov fan, but I'm afraid he hasn't succeeded in fully enlisting me. I do like "The Seasons" and some of his other ballet music very much, but I find the symphonies stubbornly unmemorable. Sorry!


Some people do, unfortunately. I've tried again and again to get my friends & family on board with Glazunov. I've taken to playing Glazunov to my wife from time to time without telling her who is playing so she doesn't feel I'm pushing it on her. I keep hoping she say something like, "This is nice? Who is this?" Instead, she doesn't ask or requests something more interesting! Oh well...


----------



## Templeton

hpowders said:


> Once again I must nominate Franz Schmidt's Symphony No. 4.
> 
> If you are addicted to Richard Strauss' lush orchestrations, then this symphony could be just right for you.


I second this, together with number 2. Numbers 1 and 3 are also not half bad. I am really hoping that Semyon Bychkov records a full cycle of the Schmidt symphonies, with the Vienna Philharmonic, after witnessing the aforementioned give the performance of the season at the 2015 London Proms, where they performed Symphony 2.


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## hpowders

Templeton said:


> I second this, together with number 2. Numbers 1 and 3 are also not half bad. I am really hoping that Semyon Bychkov records a full cycle of the Schmidt symphonies, with the Vienna Philharmonic, after witnessing the aforementioned give the performance of the season at the 2015 London Proms, where they performed Symphony 2.


I have No. 2. I haven't played it for a while. Will do.


----------



## Templeton

hpowders said:


> I have No. 2. I haven't played it for a while. Will do.


Please do, simply wonderful. However, in my opinion, avoid the Neeme Järvi version with the Chicago Symphony, which lacks the lushness of some other recordings. My favourite, so far, has been Vassily Sinaisky and the Malmö Symphony Orchestra, although I haven't yet heard the Fabio Luisi and the MDR Symphony Orchestra version.


----------



## hpowders

Templeton said:


> Please do, simply wonderful. However, in my opinion, avoid the Neeme Järvi version with the Chicago Symphony, which lacks the lushness of some other recordings. My favourite, so far, has been Vassily Sinaisky and the Malmö Symphony Orchestra, although I haven't yet heard the Fabio Luisi and the MDR Symphony Orchestra version.


Ha! Ha! The Järvi is the one I have!


----------



## Templeton

hpowders said:


> Ha! Ha! The Järvi is the one I have!


$4.35 on Amazon US for a 'like new' copy, so maybe time to splash out. However, regarding the Järvi, it's just my opinion. I find it very dense and quite harsh at times, whereas the Sinaisky version is more akin to the VPO version that I heard/saw. I find it amazing that he is not far better regarded outside of Austria.


----------



## Mahlerian

Templeton said:


> $4.35 on Amazon US for a 'like new' copy, so maybe time to splash out. However, regarding the Järvi, it's just my opinion. I find it very dense and quite harsh at times, whereas the Sinaisky version is more akin to the VPO version that I heard/saw. I find it amazing that it is not far better regarded outside of Austria.


Schmidt has had to deal with a few issues, including his purported Nazi ties (which seem not to have extended to any real sympathy for the group) and the lack of any star conductor championing his music, as well as the somewhat "retrospective" tint of his language (with some exceptions, it sounds very much like 19th century music).

That said, the Fourth and Second symphonies, at least, are both outstanding examples of their genre and have much to appeal to those who enjoy Brahms and Bruckner.


----------



## Templeton

Mahlerian said:


> Schmidt has had to deal with a few issues, including his purported Nazi ties (which seem not to have extended to any real sympathy for the group) and the lack of any star conductor championing his music, as well as the somewhat "retrospective" tint of his language (with some exceptions, it sounds very much like 19th century music).
> 
> That said, the Fourth and Second symphonies, at least, are both outstanding examples of their genre and have much to appeal to those who enjoy Brahms and Bruckner.


His well publicised fall-out with your namesake probably hasn't helped either! :lol:


----------



## hpowders

Templeton said:


> $4.35 on Amazon US for a 'like new' copy, so maybe time to splash out. However, regarding the Järvi, it's just my opinion. I find it very dense and quite harsh at times, whereas the Sinaisky version is more akin to the VPO version that I heard/saw. I find it amazing that he is not far better regarded outside of Austria.


I just played the entire Järvi and I found it fine. A very pleasant work. Loved the lilting opening phrases!


----------



## hpowders

Templeton said:


> His well publicised fall-out with your namesake probably hasn't helped either! :lol:


The ending of the Second Symphony is more Bruckner than Mahler.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

Howling Moon said:


> Over the last year, the music I keep coming back to is Glazunov. I have the symphonies by Serebrier and Fedoseyev. It doesn't matter which I listen to - the music is wonderful. I suppose I prefer the third, fifth and seventh symphonies, but they are all great. Why is he so unknown?


You prefer his Numerologically PERFECT symphonies? No. 3 op. 33, No. 5 op. 55, and No. 7 op. 77? He'd be pleased with that.  I think he made have had ideas to do a Symphony No. 9 op. 99 but he realized he had no more ideas left for that, not to mention WWI wrecking everything. And then the curse of the 9th would have taken him before the Saxophone Concerto  :lol:


----------



## Templeton

hpowders said:


> I just played the entire Järvi and I found it fine. A very pleasant work. Loved the lilting opening phrases!


Oh well, glad that you still liked it. Maybe I was being overly critical. I just found that the Järvi version fails to successfully work its way through the multiple layers of sound, on every occasion, in the same way that the Sinaisky does. Every now and then, I found that Järvi's version descended into a cacophony of harsh noise, where the orchestra failed to blend correctly or so it seemed to me. It's probably me just nitpicking.

In terms of the fourth, which version(s) do you have/like? I do like Sinaisky's version but my favourite has to be Zubin Mehta with the Vienna Philharmonic, who are glorious, as always. It's interesting just how many of my favourite performances are by the VPO; they have such a distinctive sound and seem to bring out the best in so many conductors and vice versa. If I recall correctly, you are a big fan of Bernstein and he also appears to have thrived with the VPO. Pity that he never conducted Schmidt, as I think that he would have loved the experience.


----------



## hpowders

Templeton said:


> Oh well, glad that you still liked it. Maybe I was being overly critical. I just found that the Järvi version fails to successfully work its way through the multiple layers of sound, on every occasion, in the same way that the Sinaisky does. Every now and then, I found that Järvi's version descended into a cacophony of harsh noise, where the orchestra failed to blend correctly or so it seemed to me. It's probably me just nitpicking.
> 
> In terms of the fourth, which version(s) do you have/like? I do like Sinaisky's version but my favourite has to be Zubin Mehta with the Vienna Philharmonic, who are glorious, as always. It's interesting just how many of my favourite performances are by the VPO; they have such a distinctive sound and seem to bring out the best in so many conductors and vice versa. If I recall correctly, you are a big fan of Bernstein and he also appears to have thrived with the VPO. Pity that he never conducted Schmidt, as I think that he would have loved the experience.


Today it's on to a symphony everybody should get acquainted with, the Symphony No. 4 by Franz Schmidt with that hauntingly beautiful trumpet solo that begins and ends the work. Once one hears that, one doesn't forget it.

Zubin Mehta/Vienna Philharmonic.


----------



## hpowders

Templeton said:


> Oh well, glad that you still liked it. Maybe I was being overly critical. I just found that the Järvi version fails to successfully work its way through the multiple layers of sound, on every occasion, in the same way that the Sinaisky does. Every now and then, I found that Järvi's version descended into a cacophony of harsh noise, where the orchestra failed to blend correctly or so it seemed to me. It's probably me just nitpicking.
> 
> In terms of the fourth, which version(s) do you have/like? I do like Sinaisky's version but my favourite has to be Zubin Mehta with the Vienna Philharmonic, who are glorious, as always. It's interesting just how many of my favourite performances are by the VPO; they have such a distinctive sound and seem to bring out the best in so many conductors and vice versa. If I recall correctly, you are a big fan of Bernstein and he also appears to have thrived with the VPO. Pity that he never conducted Schmidt, as I think that he would have loved the experience.


I must admit I do not know the Schmidt 2 well enough to make a comparison judgment. I'm sure you are right.


----------



## Howling Moon

Huilunsoittaja said:


> You prefer his Numerologically PERFECT symphonies? No. 3 op. 33, No. 5 op. 55, and No. 7 op. 77? He'd be pleased with that.  I think he made have had ideas to do a Symphony No. 9 op. 99 but he realized he had no more ideas left for that, not to mention WWI wrecking everything. And then the curse of the 9th would have taken him before the Saxophone Concerto  :lol:


I never noticed the numerology, but it was right in front of me all the time. Thanks!


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## Rhinotop

Atterberg composed some of the most beautiful melodies ever created, the second movement of the Symphony No. 4 is proof of that. Captivating, simply magical.


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## Rhinotop

I recently heard these symphonies and I found them very attractive:

Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem
Norgard: Symphony No. 1
Rachmaninov: The Bell's Symphony
Messiaen: Turangalila Symphony
Hindemith: Symphony in E-flat major


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## WaterRat

Rhinotop said:


> Atterberg composed some of the most beautiful melodies ever created, the second movement of the Symphony No. 4 is proof of that. Captivating, simply magical.


I'm only familiar with the 6th. I need to check this out.

There are some brilliant recommendations in this thread, eg Norgard, Schmidt, Menin. Thanks TC!


----------



## Merl

Raff - All symphonies
Stenhammar - Symphony 3
Berwald - Symphony 3
Atterburg - All symphonies

Off the top of my head


----------



## R3PL4Y

William Schuman's symphonies are very underrated. Aside from the occasional performance of the 3rd, none of them see many performances, which is too bad.


----------



## Pugg

A friend of mine leant me this, I ordered right away.

​


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## WaterRat

Merl said:


> Berwald - Symphony 3


That's a good one.

I'm not sure whether Hovhaness would be classified as a lesser known symphonist. Nevertheless, here's my two fav symphonies of his...

#4





#19


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## hpowders

In the 1950's and 1960's, the César Franck Symphony in D minor was very popular.

For some reason, unknown to me, it has slipped into semi-obscurity.

It is a three movement work. All movements are magnificent.

If you are unfamiliar with it, please do try and listen to it a few times.


----------



## WaterRat

hpowders said:


> In the 1950's and 1960's, the César Franck Symphony in D minor was very popular.
> 
> For some reason, unknown to me, it has slipped into semi-obscurity.
> 
> It is a three movement work. All movements are magnificent.
> 
> If you are unfamiliar with it, please do try and listen to it a few times.


Hard to understand why such a great work should fall out of favour in the concert hall. Perhaps there are trends amongst the conducting fraternity that we are not privileged to. Its power and immediacy should win over many converts, even with one listen.


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## DeepR

Siegmund von Hausegger - Nature Symphony (1911)


----------



## Laudemont

It's been a while since I visited this forum, but I just scanned through this entire thread and found a gold mine of "new" symphonic composers I hope to follow up on. I want to second the recommendations for Edmund Rubbra, Eduard Tubin, Nikolai Myaskovsky, Richard Wetz, Alberic Magnard, Franz Schmidt, Kurt Atterberg, Allan Pettersson -- all favorites, to name only a few. I didn't notice the name of William Alwyn. Nor did I spot the name of Healey Willan, the Canadian composer who is known more for organ and choral works. His two symphonies are on YouTube (No. 1 only in mono). And, speaking of organ, there is also Leo Sowerby's Symphony No. 2 (for orchestra, not organ). All good stuff -- so much great music, so little time!


----------



## arpeggio

WaterRat said:


> That's a good one.
> 
> I'm not sure whether Hovhaness would be classified as a lesser known symphonist. Nevertheless, here's my two fav symphonies of his...
> 
> #4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #19


I have performed his _Fourth Symphony_. Great contrabassoon part.


----------



## Rhinotop

WaterRat said:


> I'm only familiar with the 6th. I need to check this out.
> 
> There are some brilliant recommendations in this thread, eg Norgard, Schmidt, Menin. Thanks TC!


Atterberg is an impressive symphonist. Widely recommend all his symphonies and orchestral works.


----------



## scott777

Roger Sessions wrote many and I rather like his 1st - exciting and Stravinsky-esque.

Also John McCabe (Scottish) 3rd is good and Knussen’s 3rd (if you can handle atonal music) is very dramatic, but short.


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## Rhinotop

Atterberg's Symphony No. 7: A lesser known work but full of the German vigor and of the dances from Sweden.
Chevalry music, from Middle Age, it's an iron knight.


----------



## psfrankel

I've just been scanning and it's clear to me I need to make a list of everything & everyone mentioned.
Some I'm familiar with, but there are lots that I don't know. What a goldmine. Thanks to everyone.


----------



## DeepR

TxllxT said:


>


I enjoy this symphony. The last movement @ 34:42﻿ is a lot of fun.


----------



## PeterKC

Virgil Thomson's Symphonies
Don Gillis' Symphonies
Randall Thompson's Symphonies
Marc Blitzstein "The Airborne"
George Lloyd's Symphonies
Malcom Arnold's Symphonies


----------



## Rhinotop

For now I can recommend:

Aarre Merikanto (mainly the Nr. 2)
Zemlinsky (Nr. 2)
Farrenc (all)
Dietrich (his unique symphony)
Bruch (all)
Berwald (mainly 1-3)
Raff (all)
Lalo (his unique symphony)
Rubinstein (specially 4-6)
Balakirev (all)
Svendsen (all)
Rimsky-Korsakov (1st and mainly his 2nd)
Bendix (1-4)
Taneyev (1-4)
Rott (his unique symphony)
Emmanuel (all)
de Boeck (his unique symphony)
Karlowicz (his unique symphony)
Stenhammar (all)
Bowen (Nr. 2)
Freitas Branco (1-4)
Atterberg (all)
Hindemith (Symphony in E-flat, Die Harmonie der Welt, Symphonia Serena)
Chávez (mainly his 2nd)
Creston (2 & 3)
Herrmann (his unique symphony)
Simpson (2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10)


----------



## starthrower

Symphony No.8 by Laszlo Lajtha is a beauty! The orchestration is exquisite.


----------



## Blancrocher

Malcolm Arnold's 4th symphony is knocking me out right now.


----------



## techniquest

George Lloyd's 11th symphony is a sparkling piece of music with a real humdinger of a finale. While on the subject of 11ths, I'd also say that Hovhaness' 11th is superb - such a shame it's so very hard to find.


----------



## Rhinotop

techniquest said:


> George Lloyd's 11th symphony is a sparkling piece of music with a real humdinger of a finale. While on the subject of 11ths, I'd also say that Hovhaness' 11th is superb - such a shame it's so very hard to find.


Lloyd is a composer that I must listen to this year, I have read many references of his symphonies and I have found them quite attractive.


----------



## Rhinotop

Blancrocher said:


> Malcolm Arnold's 4th symphony is knocking me out right now.


I have many composers for listening yet and one of them is Arnold. I have listened to some fragments of his works and they are so catchy.


----------



## Vox Gabrieli

Sid James said:


> A composer whose disc I bought in the bargain bin of a classical cd shop here in Sydney was the Israeli *Josef Tal*. All of his symphonies are on cpo (two seperate discs - I got the first one). His music has elements of atonality, but freely applied, and some of it sounds very "Jewish" - a bit like Ernest Bloch combined with the second Viennese school. His orchestration sounds pretty good as well.
> 
> Speaking of orchestration, I really like the symphonies of *Lutoslawski*. I've got the 2nd and 3rd so far. The 2nd sounds more avant-garde, here his use of chance elements is quite obvious. The 3rd quotes the first movement theme of Beethoven's 5th symphony, but it is "hidden" (for example, Lutoslawski starts off by rapidly firing off Beethoven's 4 note theme, but you have to listen carefully to pick it up).
> 
> Another Pole, *Penderecki*, has also written some fine symphonies. I've got the 1st, 3rd & 8th. The 1st is the most "radical" of the set, it's all about texture and colour. I really like it how he begins (and ends) with the rhythm provided by an orchestral whip. The 3rd does not grab me as much, it is kind of neo Romantic, as is the 8th, which uses vocal soloists and choir, in the tradition of Mahler.
> 
> The Mexican *Chavez *was also a very fine symphonist. His cycle of 6 is definitely among the best produced on the American continent. The 1st, 2nd & 4th are the easiest to get into, they are basically monothematic (the first two are in one movement). The 1st is after the Greek tragedy of Antigone, and is quite dramatic and dark, and uses ancient Greek modes. The 2nd, _Sinfonia India_, uses traditional Mexican idioms. It reminds me of music in old American cowboy films. The first movement of the 4th, called _Sinfonia Romantica_, reminds me of the big open air sound of Copland, and the slow movement has a Brucknerian gracefulness. I've basically understood these, but the others (3, 5, 6) are harder to get my head around. He seems to build up themes from virtually nothing, and his counterpoint is pretty complex. I have the LSO conducted by the late Eduardo Mata, which is a good recording, but Chavez's own recordings had this earthiness and grittiness which I liked as well.


Penderecki terrifies me! Therenody for the victims of Hiroshima is good drinking music, though... If you were blackout drunk maybe..


----------



## Rhinotop

Bantock: A Celtic Symphony

This is a "musical orgasm". Simply beautiful _in extremis_ What a piece of a symphony! It was overwhelming


----------



## Bettina

Justin Heinrich Knecht: Le Portrait Musical de la Nature, also known as Grande Symphonie (1785). A lovely pastoral-style symphony which may have influenced Beethoven's own contribution to the genre.


----------



## SayMozart

I've been exploring your list and finding a lot I really enjoy. What do you think of Franz Schmidt?


----------



## FBerwald

Raff - Symphony No. 8 sounds of spring. The 1st movement is pure Joy and beauty distilled! Actually any symphony of Raff's is quite a pleasureful experience. Try No. 9, 10, 2, 4, 5 & 3.

Ferdinand Ries - Symphony No. 5 in D minor. A wonderful tribute to Beethoven with quotations from the masters' Symphony No. 5 & 3.

Klughardt - Symphony No. 5 - a very striking C minor symphony as far removed from the sound world of Brahms as possible.

Rufinatscha - Symphony No. 1, 4, 5 - These symphonies [the only one's I have heard so far] are superbly crafted musical compositions following up on the ides of Beethoven and Schubert.

Joseph Marx - Eine Herbstsymphonie.


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

Great, great thread! Found some of this on Amazon prime.


----------



## mbhaub

Wish I'd seen this earlier. Schmidt is one of absolute favorite composers. Vastly underrated, tragically neglected by orchestras. The 4th symphony is a stunning masterpiece that I dearly love. Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln is tremendous. The chamber music first-rate. I'll admit that Schmidt isn't for everyone. Not as flashy as R Strauss, as emotional as Mahler. On record he's been fortunate: only a few bits he wrote in his youth haven't been recorded. Anyone looking for solid, dignified, deeply felt music should try it.


----------



## Lenny

mbhaub said:


> Wish I'd seen this earlier. Schmidt is one of absolute favorite composers. Vastly underrated, tragically neglected by orchestras. The 4th symphony is a stunning masterpiece that I dearly love. Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln is tremendous. The chamber music first-rate. I'll admit that Schmidt isn't for everyone. Not as flashy as R Strauss, as emotional as Mahler. On record he's been fortunate: only a few bits he wrote in his youth haven't been recorded. Anyone looking for solid, dignified, deeply felt music should try it.


Total agreement! I just ranted about Schmidt elsewhere.. glad to see this.

From the OP I picked up also Franz Berwald. Incredible music, it's hard to understand this man composed his symphonies decades before Brahms.. And was totally ignored.


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

This thread has led me to some great discoveries. Like this one.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Naxos recently had a free download of some symphonies by Franz Beck.


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## Pugg

Reading this thread and people still moaning about lack of diversity.....


----------



## maestro267

Lenny said:


> Total agreement! I just ranted about Schmidt elsewhere.. glad to see this.
> 
> From the OP I picked up also Franz Berwald. Incredible music, it's hard to understand this man composed his symphonies decades before Brahms.. And was totally ignored.


I feel like Brahms was a step backward compared to Berwald. A return to classical models and simplicity (albeit with considerably more weight than actual classical-period composers) while Berwald was in the line with Berlioz, Liszt and eventually Wagner and the breaking free from the shackles of tonality.


----------



## MonagFam

Richard Macduff said:


> Penderecki terrifies me! Therenody for the victims of Hiroshima is good drinking music, though... If you were blackout drunk maybe..


Big Penerecki fan here. The work you mentioned is not necessarily typical of his later output. I really don't enjoy his third Symphony (check out the second movement). It has this Star Wars vibe to me.


----------



## John Kiunke

Vogler Symphony in D minor, Rosetti Symphony in G minor, Kozeluch Symphony in G minor, Haydn Symphony No. 44 in E minor, Clementi Symphony No. 1 in C major


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

I like these also.


----------



## cougarjuno

Also Franz Krommer's symphonies are wonderful classical-era symphonies. Perhaps he's known more for his clarinet pieces but the symphonies are well-worth exploring.


----------



## Josquin13

This is a great (& very helpful) thread for expanding my knowledge of the symphonic repertory! I've jotted down many names of composers, and suggestions for works. My next stop is You Tube, where I've got some listening to do. Many thanks.

I'll add two composers that haven't been mentioned so far: Joonas Kokkonen (Symphonies 1-4) and Vincent Persichetti (Symphonies 1-9):

Kokkonen Sym. 3 (Berglund):





Kokkonen Sym. 4 (Kamu--Oramo & Vanska's recordings of 1-4 are worthwhile too):





Persichetti Sym. 9 "Janiculum" (Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra):





I've also recently enjoyed discovering Einojuhani Rautavaara's beautiful 5th symphony:






Vagn Holmboe's powerful 8th Symphony--"Sinfonia borealis" (here's a link to the 1st movement, but make sure to hear the remarkable 2nd movement, etc.):






Here's the 2nd movement--"Tempo giusto"





& Semkow's performance of the full symphony on YT:





Allan Pettersson's deeply moving 7th Symphony:






and Per Norgard's 6th Symphony "At the End of the Day".


----------



## Becca

For a couple of works which are totally off the beaten track...

Steve Elcock's 3rd Symphony ... which happens to be the first professional performance of any of his works!















And Harold Shapero's Symphony for Classical Orchestra. Shapero was friends with Bernstein at Harvard and studied with Piston and Hindemith.


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## CnC Bartok

Josquin13 - I still rate Holmboe's Sixth above his Eighth!

:tiphat:

Have the symphonies of the Norwegian composer Harald Saeverud been mentioned here? Some very good music in those.....


----------



## Josquin13

Robert--I'll try to listen to the 6th today, as I still haven't gotten to it--though I do remember that you spoke highly of his 6th over at Amazon. (My Holmboe listening of late has been his chamber music--2 CDs from the Midtvest Ensemble, which are excellent, and his 3 Violin Sonatas). Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## CnC Bartok

Josquin13 - The opening of the Sixth is magical, gives you no idea of the unstoppable power to follow. And listen out for the weird ending!

My Holmboe listening recently has involved his ten Preludes for small orchestra. Great little miniature symphonies!


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## Oldhoosierdude

How about these two? I didn't know either even composed a symphony.


----------



## Kraffy

I had the original L.P.s. Long gone now. Wish I had the C.D.s. Kertesz was magic in nearly everything! Died too young.
Jim.


----------



## kyjo

Oh, where to begin! Here are some of my favorites (most of which have already been mentioned):

*Kurt Atterberg*: All 9 symphonies (especially nos. 2, 3, 5, and 8). Lush, gorgeously orchestrated, tuneful, exciting, and dramatic works. I like to think of Atterberg as a cross between Sibelius (for atmosphere), Rachmaninoff (for Romantic emotion and melody), and Strauss (for brilliant orchestration), but that is not to undermine the fact that he has an individual voice. His music would surely bring the house down in concert if given the chance! To me, Atterberg is possibly the most underrated composer ever.

*Joly Braga Santos*: Symphonies 1-5 (I haven't heard no. 6 yet). Symphonies 1-4 are tonal (often modal), exciting, and and melodic works. I particularly recommend Symphony no. 4, which is a remarkable work with plenty of memorable tunes, especially in its joyous, life-affirming finale. No. 5 is a much darker and more dissonant work, but makes a powerful impact.

*Howard Hanson*: Symphonies 1-5 (I haven't heard no. 6 yet). Hanson is my favorite American composer. His music is full of atmosphere and generous melody, and to me conjures up images of the the vast expanses of the American West. His Symphony no. 2 _Romantic_ is rather well-known, but I cannot emphasize enough what a fantastic work it is. No. 3 has a beautiful slow movement and rousing ending, while nos. 4 and 5 show the composer in a darker (but far from pessimistic) mode.

*Malcolm Arnold*: Symphonies 2, 5, and 7. All of them have their moments but these three are the most consistently great. Arnold is very much like a mid-20th century Mahler - his symphonies juxtapose beautiful, Romantic melodies against dark, disturbing passages. Symphony no. 5 is his masterpiece - it contains a beautiful, Mahlerian slow movement and one of the most astonishingly powerful endings in all of music (I won't spoil it for you).

*Alfredo Casella*: Symphonies 1-3. Symphonies 1 and 2 are thrilling works firmly in the late-Romantic mold, which at times sound like a heady mixture of Mahler and Tchaikovsky at his darkest. Symphony no. 3 (Sinfonia), written much later in the composer's more refined mature style, is a masterwork with a touching slow movement, agitated scherzo, and optimistic finale.

*Eduard Tubin*: Symphonies 2 and 6 (I haven't heard many of them yet). Symphony no. 2 _The Legendary_ is a real stunner. Tubin's orchestration is remarkably original and ear-catching, lending this work some unique atmosphere and textures that would make Sibelius jealous. Symphony no. 6 is more dissonant but still approachable, and contains some deliciously malevolent saxophone solos in the spirit of Vaughan Williams' 6th and 9th symphonies. Symphony no. 4 _Sinfonia lirica_ is quite good too, but I'm not as over-the-roof about it as some people.

*Erich Wolfgang Korngold*: Symphony in F-sharp. This late masterwork really makes me wish Korngold had composed more symphonies. The shockingly dissonant opening is a far cry from the lush Romanticism of his Violin Concerto, for instance. The slow movement is a profound funeral march, and only in the jovial finale is there some waning of inspiration.

*Vagn Holmboe*: Symphonies 1, 3, 8, and 10 (the only ones I've heard so far). Holmboe is the natural heir to Nielsen and his imaginative music doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by his elder countryman. These symphonies breathe the cold air of the Nordic forests and contain some really powerful passages.

*Franz Berwald*: Symphonies 1 and 3 (I haven't heard nos. 2 and 4). No. 3 _Singuliere_ is one of the greatest symphonies of the 19th century IMO. It's an astonishingly forward-looking work which anticipates the 'Nordic sound' of Sibelius and Nielsen.

*Takashi Yoshimatsu*: Symphonies 2 and 3 (the only ones I've heard so far). I wasn't really sure quite what to expect here, but these symphonies proved to be really exciting, accessible works. Don't get put off by the rather avant-garde opening of no. 3 - it soon turns out to be a great work with one of the most thrilling conclusions I know.

*Kurt Weill*: Symphonies 1 and 2. Knowing Weill was predominantly a composer of theater music, I was pleasantly surprised by these two symphonies. The 1st is a dark, rather expressionistic work, while the 2nd is a superbly energetic work with lots of memorable ideas and a beautiful slow movement.

*Walter Piston*: Symphony no. 2 (the only other one I know is the 5th, which I didn't think much of). The outer movements are energetic and dance-like, but the real prize here is the astoundingly beautiful slow movement, which builds its way to a heart-wrenching climax.

I'll probably post some more later...


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## starthrower

Roberto Gerhard 1-4
Laszlo Lajtha 1-9
Panufnik 9, 10
Lutoslawski 2-4
Penderecki no.1
Zemlinsky Lyric Symphony
Henry Cowell symphonies 2-5, 11, 15, 16 all on YT


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## Becca

Can a symphony that is only 3 years old and had it's premiere 1 year ago be considered as lesser known? Let's just make sure that it doesn't end up that way...
David Matthews Symphony #9








There have been a number of mentions of George Lloyd in this thread. As I have been listening to the 5th and 11th recently for the first time in quite a while, I strongly second them - and the rest of his 12 symphonies.

P.S. If you like Lloyd, you will (probably) like Matthews.


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## CnC Bartok

^^^ I've enjoyed quite a bit of Lloyd's music in the past, he's good, but will probably always be judged purely as an anachronistic romantic. He probably is, and that matters to some (not me, I hasten to add) but his bigger works (I have a 2-CD set with Edward Downes conducting three heftier Symphonies as an example) are his better works for me. No.7 is a great piece too! The shorter Symphonies, which I think have a sort of Mendelssohn delicacy aren't as good as the biggies. And unfortunately, with his two big later choral works - the Requiem and the Symphonic Mass - I can't help hearing Andrew Lloyd Webber!

But God did he know what an orchestra can do. An absolute master of orchestration!


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## mikeh375

Becca said:


> Can a symphony that is only 3 years old and had it's premiere 1 year ago be considered as lesser known? Let's just make sure that it doesn't end up that way...
> David Matthews Symphony #9
> View attachment 121156
> 
> 
> There have been a number of mentions of George Lloyd in this thread. As I have been listening to the 5th and 11th recently for the first time in quite a while, I strongly second them - and the rest of his 12 symphonies.
> 
> P.S. If you like Lloyd, you will (probably) like Matthews.


Nice becca, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows of Matthews. I'd also recommend John McCabe if you don't know him already.
Time to listen to some Lloyd then as I don't know of him or his work.


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## Enthusiast

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ I've enjoyed quite a bit of Lloyd's music in the past, he's good, but will probably always be judged purely as an anachronistic romantic. He probably is, and that matters to some (not me, I hasten to add) .....


Of course it doesn't matter if the music is as good as the music he harks back to (I'm thinking of late Elgar as a prime example). I do think it must be very hard, though, to produce new music using old language and to come close to producing something inspired. For me, I don't think Lloyd does and I often hear something close to pastiche in his music. But then, having not found much interest in the pieces I have heard, I haven't spent a lot of time with his music. Of course, he had skills and talent.


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## Stewart Limmson

World Violist said:


> Another Dukas work that deserves to be much better-known is La Peri, his last work. It's a wonderful ballet, with a rather impressive (and somewhat well-known in the band world) fanfare at the beginning; but the next 20 minutes are pure heaven.
> 
> One of my absolute favorite sets of symphonies is that of Edmund Rubbra. There is something distinctly personal about these symphonies, from form to harmonic language to orchestration. There is a marvelous set of recordings by the late Richard Hickox.


I absolutely agree about Rubbra. His 11 symphonies, along with the VW 9, are the greatest English symphonies.


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## Becca

As this thread has been resurrected and I don't have time go scan through it to see what might or might not have been said, let me throw in one more 20th century Welsh composer, William Mathias. He wrote 3 symphonies, all worth listening to...


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## Ned Low

I hope i'm the first one to mention Richard Wetz. His 3 symphonies are Brucknerian and worth a listen.


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## Roger Knox

Ned Low said:


> I hope i'm the first one to mention Richard Wetz. His 3 symphonies are Brucknerian and worth a listen.


Richard Wetz (1875-1935) has been mentioned quite often on other threads. I especially like his Symphonies 2 and 3 -- he could compose effectively on the grand Brucknerian scale. Another name that comes to mind as an "heir" to Bruckner is Franz Schmidt (1874-1939) in his first two symphonies; I think that the opening of Bruckner's Fourth "Romantic" Symphony is actually signalled in Schmidt's Second (both works are in Eb major). But there is also a lot more of Hungary and of Vienna in Schmidt.


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## CnC Bartok

There's a new issue coming out on Naxos next month, the seven Symphonies of the Belgian composer Marcel Poot. Anyone know anything about these works?? Totally new name to me..


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## Art Rock

I have 3,5,6,7 on Marco Polo - possibly the same versions that will be on the Naxos issue. Pleasant romantic music, but far from essential. YMMV obviously.


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## Enthusiast

I also don't have the time to go through all the posts from the past. I may even have posted before what I am going to post now! But have the symphonies of Humphrey Searle been mentioned yet?


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## Andante Largo

*My Favorite Lesser Known Symphonies*


Elsner - Symphony in C major, Op.11 (1805)
Lipiński - Symphony in B flat major, Op. 2 No. 3 (1810)
Dobrzyński - Symphony No. 2 in C minor "Characteristic", Op.15" (1831)
Saint-Saëns - Symphony in F major "Urbs Roma" (1856)
Reinecke - Symphony No. 1 in A major, Op. 79 (1858, rev. 1863)
Rheinberger - Symphony No. 1 in D minor, Op. 10 "Wallenstein" (1866)
Noskowski - Symphony No. 1 in A major (1875)
Reinecke - Symphony No. 2 in C minor, Op. 134 (1875, rev. 1888)
Rheinberger - Symphony No. 2 in F major, Op. 87 (1875)
Noskowski - Symphony No. 2 in C minor (1879)
Sgambati - Symphony No. 1 in D major, Op. 16 (1881)
Fuchs - Symphony No. 1 in C major, Op. 37 (1884)
Fuchs - Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major, Op. 45 (1887)
Gernsheim - Symphony No. 3 in C minor "Mirjam", Op. 54 (1887)
Wieniawski, Józef - Symphony in D major, Op. 49 (1890)
Gretchaninov - Symphony No. 1 in B minor, Op. 6 (1894)
Reinecke - Symphony No. 3 in G minor, Op. 227 (1894)
Gernsheim - Symphony No. 4 in B-flat major, Op. 62 (1895)
Sgambati - Symphony No. 2 in E-flat major (1895)
Martucci - Symphony No. 1 in D minor, Op. 75 (1895)
Stojowski - Symphony in D minor, Op. 21 (1897)
Dohnányi - Symphony No. 1 in D minor, Op. 9 (1901)
Karłowicz - Symphony "Rebirth" in E minor, Op. 7 (1902)
Melartin - Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 30 No. 1 (1902)
Olsson - Symphony in G minor, Op. 11 (1902)
Noskowski - Symphony No. 3 in F major "From Spring to Spring" (1903) 
Fuchs - Symphony No. 3 in E major, Op. 79 (1906)
Gretchaninov - Symphony No. 2 in A major "Pastoral", Op. 27 (1908)
Młynarski - Symphony in F major "Polonia", Op. 14 (1910) 
Peterson-Berger - Symphony No. 2 in E flat major, "The Journey of Southerly Winds" (1910) 
Melartin - Symphony No. 5 "Sinfonia Brevis" in A minor, Op. 90 (1915)
Peterson-Berger - Symphony No. 3 in F minor, "Lappland Symphony" (1915)
Wetz - Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 40 (1916)
Berg, Natanael - Symphony No. 4 "Pezzo Sinfonico" (1918)
Wetz - Symphony No. 2 in A major, Op. 47 (1920)
Melartin - Symphony No. 6, Op. 100 (1924)
Gretchaninov - Symphony No. 4 in C major, Op. 102 (1927)
Peterson-Berger - Symphony No. 5 in B major, "Solitude" (1933)
Graener - Wiener Sinfonie in F major, Op. 110 (1941)
Dohnányi - Symphony No. 2 in E major, Op. 40 (1944)
Malipiero - Symphony No. 3 "Delle campane" (1945)
Malipiero - Symphony No. 6 "Degli archi" (1947)
Malipiero - Symphony No. 7 "Delle canzoni" (1948)


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## Posauner

Wow, this thread has been an incredible treasure trove, introducing me to a tremendous amount of gorgeous music I had not heard before! I'm about to take another pass through and pick some more selections to put in my queue. Thanks for the recommendations, all of you!

So far, I am adoring Stenhammar, Atterberg, Hanson, and Raff, and will eventually be working my way through all of their other symphonies.


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## CnC Bartok

I am not sure I have the energy to go through 23 pages of recommendations to see if this one has been mentioned yet, but the three symphonies of the Swedish composer Karl-Birger Blomdahl are worth hearing. The Third is the most recognised, and could be seen as a sort of Twelve-tone Sibelius 7th, a really tough nut to crack, but rewarding nonetheless.

Leif Segerstam has recorded all three on BIS


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## brucknerian1874

Lutoslawski 4








Villa-Lobos 7








Raff 2


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## Art Rock

CnC Bartok said:


> I am not sure I have the energy to go through 23 pages of recommendations to see if this one has been mentioned yet, but the three symphonies of the Swedish composer Karl-Birger Blomdahl are worth hearing. The Third is the most recognised, and could be seen as a sort of Twelve-tone Sibelius 7th, a really tough nut to crack, but rewarding nonetheless.
> 
> Leif Segerstam has recorded all three on BIS


You're the first to mention them. The general Talk Classical search function sucks, but the Search Thread option is pretty effective.


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## MusicSybarite

I'm aware of lists may be boring or not to say much, but this one gets together many interesting symphonies by relatively unknown composers. I've listened to all of these and I can say most of them have striking music.

Felix Weingartner
Francis Chagrin
Marcel Landowski
Irving Fine
Richard Arnell
Isang Yun
Stanley Bate
Erland von Koch
Adolks Skulte
Geirr Tveitt
Lars-Erik Larsson
Fernando Lopes-Graça
Miloslav Kabelac
Antal Dorati
Benjamin Frankel
Dag Wiren
Gavriil Popov
William Levi Dawson
Yngve Sköld
Knudaage Riisager
Boris Lyatoshinsky
Arthur Benjamin
Aarre Merikanto
Hilding Rosenberg
Hendrik Andriessen
Gösta Nystroem
Rudolph Simonsen
Matthijs Vermeulen
Maximilian Steinberg
Einar Englund
Kaljo Raid
Edvard Fliflet Braein
John Kinsella
Bo Linde
Boris Tchaikovsky
Giya Kancheli


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## Hydrarchos

I don't really see the point of endless lists, so I'm just highlighting one symphony that I didn't find in the thread yet but which I also consider to be extremely good: Volkmar Andreae's F major symphony of 1901 - his second. It's admittedly somewhat anachronistic, and smacks more than a bit of (the lyrical side of) Brahms in places, particularly in the first two movements. But that's not necessarily a problem and the work is quite original in its use of rhythm in the latter half. For me, it's one of those works that always offers something new.


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## mparta

If i were thinking of pieces that perhaps aren't as far off the mainstream (to me) but for which I despair of ever hearing a performance, the Dukas and Shapero symphonies are huge, wonderful works. I keep some eye out for such and I just don't think anyone is going to program them. And in the French literature that is essentially unknown, I think, in the US at least, I have a real fancy for the Tournemire 7th, but there are qualities that make me question how it would be programmed? A lack of familiarity with the idiom would doom it, I think, because it is fairly idiosyncratic in structure and temperament. 
But the Shapero isn't performed either, and it's probably the equal of any American symphony, including Bernstein or Copland or Harris. A hugely important work that just is set aside for ... I don't know. more Mahler?


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## Heck148

mparta said:


> But the Shapero isn't performed either, and it's probably the equal of any American symphony, including Bernstein or Copland or Harris. A hugely important work that just is set aside for ... I don't know. more Mahler?


Set aside for _yet another _Tchaik 4, 5 or Rach-y 2.....ugh....


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## Roger Knox

mparta said:


> And in the French literature that is essentially unknown, I think, in the US at least, I have a real fancy for the Tournemire 7th, but there are qualities that make me question how it would be programmed? A lack of familiarity with the idiom would doom it, I think, because it is fairly idiosyncratic in structure and temperament. (


I agree with you about the Dukas and Tournemire 7th Symphonies. I do not think lack of familiarity with the idiom would be a problem with the Tournemire everywhere, but it would be in some places. It took me a while to get into that piece but now I think it's wonderful, especially the Finale. I've never listened to the Shapero, but a number of people have recommended it and maybe now it's time to get busy!


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## Kreisler jr

CPE Bach: 6 string symphonies Wq 182 and 4 orchestral symphonies Wq 183 (they are all short ca. 10-12 min each)

J. M. Kraus: Symphony c minor, c# minor, "funebre" (c minor), E flat major

K.A. Hartmann, esp. #2, #4, #6


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## dko22

Merl said:


> Raff - All symphonies
> Stenhammar - Symphony 3
> Berwald - Symphony 3
> Atterburg - All symphonies
> 
> Off the top of my head


I'm glad that quite a few posters have featured Swedish romantic symphonies. Although Sweden never produced a figure of the originality of Sibelius or Nielsen, the better composers have always struck me as being particularly melodically gifted. If I had to choose just one work, it would probably be Alfven's 2nd, a work that adds excellent structure and counterpoint to the fine tunes and depth of feeling. I'd rather have that than any of the Brahms' on my desert island. Stenhammar's 2nd is probably what's meant here --no.3 has only a fragment available. Berwald is consistently imaginative but yes, the Singuliere is the best, Atterberg I find variable though the second is wonderful. The third by Lars-Eric Larsson and Rosenberg are another two.


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## dko22

mbhaub said:


> Wish I'd seen this earlier. Schmidt is one of absolute favorite composers. Vastly underrated, tragically neglected by orchestras. The 4th symphony is a stunning masterpiece that I dearly love. Das Buch mit sieben Siegeln is tremendous. The chamber music first-rate. I'll admit that Schmidt isn't for everyone. Not as flashy as R Strauss, as emotional as Mahler. On record he's been fortunate: only a few bits he wrote in his youth haven't been recorded. Anyone looking for solid, dignified, deeply felt music should try it.


Schmidt's fourth is occasionally performed in the concert hall and I travelled half way across Germany to hear it -- a poor performance unfortunately. I rate it almost on a par with Bruckner 9, Suk's Asrael and Mahler 10 as the greatest symphonic tragedies ever written. No. 2, arguably more typical, I like even more and is the exact opposite in mood. It has recently started to get a bit more attention outside Austria. Most of his chamber music is also very fine, I agree


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## dko22

Alexander Brinken Symphony no. 4

the extraordinary thing about this work is that it was written just recently in 2015. Most serious symphonists these days only grudgingly tolerate melody and romanticism if at all but this work shouts them from the rooftops in an uninhibitedly joyful manner. I don't know of a single other symphony written this century that is completely unashamed to go back around 100 years in time. Franz Schmidt (particularly in the harmony and orchestration), Bruckner and Rachmaninov are all obvious influences but the work is nevertheless not only inspired but completely individual. There is also a great, rather Nordic freshness about it. Fabulous performance on Toccata even if I'm not sure the satire he clearly intends in the finale is fully brought out. 

Will be interesting to see if anyone else shares my enthusiasm. Reviews have been somewhat mixed but I implore the Schmidt fans here at the very least to give it a go.


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## Gargamel

kyjo said:


> *Takashi Yoshimatsu*: Symphonies 2 and 3 (the only ones I've heard so far). I wasn't really sure quite what to expect here, but these symphonies proved to be really exciting, accessible works. Don't get put off by the rather avant-garde opening of no. 3 - it soon turns out to be a great work with one of the most thrilling conclusions I know.


I don't get it. Not the (to my ears, at least) homogenous sound which the first movement of Symphony 2 culminates in, when I'm anticipating a satisfying payoff. Similar in orchestration to what many latin-american composers are doing (Chavez, Villa-Lobos...), but mawkish rather than edgy. Symphony 3 takes me back to british old hat composers (Racine Fricker, Alwyn, Leighton) - but are these exciting _because they are clever_.


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## jimsumner

dko22 said:


> Alexander Brinken Symphony no. 4
> 
> the extraordinary thing about this work is that it was written just recently in 2015. Most serious symphonists these days only grudgingly tolerate melody and romanticism if at all but this work shouts them from the rooftops in an uninhibitedly joyful manner. I don't know of a single other symphony written this century that is completely unashamed to go back around 100 years in time. Franz Schmidt (particularly in the harmony and orchestration), Bruckner and Rachmaninov are all obvious influences but the work is nevertheless not only inspired but completely individual. There is also a great, rather Nordic freshness about it. Fabulous performance on Toccata even if I'm not sure the satire he clearly intends in the finale is fully brought out.
> 
> Will be interesting to see if anyone else shares my enthusiasm. Reviews have been somewhat mixed but I implore the Schmidt fans here at the very least to give it a go.


For anyone interested in seeking this out, the correct spelling of the composer's last name is Brincken.

FYI.


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## dko22

Quite correct—— Apologies for the typo!


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## Radames

My thread search only found one mention of Taneyev for his 4th Symphony. Great stuff - I got to hear it at Bard with Botstein conducting a few years ago. The first Taneyev work I fell in love with was his 2nd Symphony. Incomplete, but it has tremendous Russianness and bombast.


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## elgar's ghost

Most of Paul Hindemith's - I wonder if he didn't number them in anticipation of the lack of affection with which most of them would be regarded.


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## starthrower




----------



## Aries

The young Georgy Sviridov wrote a great symphony in 1937. It was long lost but found a view years ago and performed for the first time on 23.09.2016.

Here is the symphony:





And here the story (google translated):


> *Symphony from 1937*
> 
> Why was the work of the great Georgy Sviridov hiding in grandmother's sofa?
> 
> The Irkutsk Philharmonic is an event of world significance.
> 
> For the first time after almost 80 years of obscurity, the Governor's Symphony Orchestra conducted by Ilmars Lapins performed the Symphony of the great Russian composer of the 20th century Georgy Sviridov.
> 
> How did it happen that the largest symphonic work of one of the pillars of Russian music of the century, whose melodies, without exaggeration, accompany us every day ("Blizzard", "Time, Forward!"), Nearly sunk into oblivion? And how did this piece end up in Siberia, having gone through many troubles?
> 
> The plot began during a recent trip to Denis Matsuev's "Stars on Baikal" festival. At the opening concert in Irkutsk, I meet a longtime acquaintance, conductor Ilmars Lapinsh - a Latvian, a graduate of the Leningrad Conservatory, who devoted most of his life to Russia - the Bolshoi Theater, the Tatar Opera and Ballet Theater, the Tomsk Orchestra.
> 
> For the last nine years, Ilmar Arturovich has been the chief conductor of the Irkutsk Governor's Orchestra.
> 
> "Sergei, it's good that you are here: tomorrow at 10 am at the rehearsal we will play Sviridov's Symphony for the first time."
> 
> Probably, you should have seen my round eyes. Although it is known: Georgy Vasilyevich, the author of the "Poem to the Memory of Sergei Yesenin", "Kursk Songs" and other famous opuses, has many unseen works. But for a whole symphony?
> 
> It turned out that we are talking about a work written by a 21-year-old student of the Leningrad Conservatory in the summer of 1937. Then the young native of the Kursk hinterland had just moved from the class of the famous teacher and folklorist Pyotr Ryazanov to his idol Dmitry Shostakovich.
> 
> Even knowing about Sviridov's unique talent, it was difficult to expect something more than naive orchestral sketches ...
> 
> But the very first clarinet solo is a wonderful wide melody, in which, of course, there are echoes of both Rachmaninov and that Soviet school of "song symphonism" to which Ryazanov belonged. From time to time "Shostakovich's" energy breaks through.
> 
> However, it is already clear, obvious and its own, Sviridov intonation - with its freshness, Russian picturesqueness, light and sadness. A duet of trumpet and French horn under the pulse of the strings is being developed - an unexpected throw 30 years into the future, to that very famous fanfare "Time, forward!" ...
> 
> And so in all four parts: now a respectful glance towards the adored Shostakovich (for example, in the fugue of the finale), now a melodic take-off, foreshadowing the future Blizzard (in the third part). The main thing is that all this is warmed with tremendous spiritual warmth. For all the parallels, Shostakovich could not write such music. This is Sviridov.
> 
> How, 45 minutes have already flown by? The finale seemed to be cut short in mid-sentence, when you want to listen more and more ... Here, probably, the lack of experience of the young composer, who does not quite master the form, has affected. But there is a huge supply of ideas, feelings, which will splash out in full force in subsequent scores ...
> 
> But how could such a striking work, which, by God, it is not a shame to put next to the First Symphony of Shostakovich himself (where there is also a lot of apprenticeship), could lie under the cover of eight decades?
> 
> Congratulating Ilmar after the rehearsal, I learn that the score was given to him for the premiere performance by his old friend from the conservatory, Sviridov's nephew, St. Petersburg music historian Alexander Belonenko. I called Alexander Sergeevich.
> 
> "A detective story is connected with this symphony. Apparently, it was performed only once at the end of 1937 at a closed selection for the first decade of Soviet music.
> 
> I learned about this by chance from the only written evidence - the diary entries of Mikhail Fabianovich Gnesin (a well-known composer and teacher - "Trud" ). The level of this decade is evidenced by the fact that the just written Fifth Symphony by Shostakovich, as well as the Eighteenth Symphony of another Soviet classic, Myaskovsky, were performed there.
> 
> And next to them, a piece by Sviridov was included in the program - albeit another, Piano Concerto. But, apparently, those who made the selection also had a good opinion of the Symphony, Gnesin testifies that during the discussion Yura Sviridov was praised for his talent and great potential ... ",
> 
> - says the musicologist.
> 
> Then Sviridov actively set about new scores. In the 1940s, he began to write the Second Symphony, but finished only two parts: 1948 burst out with his criticism of "formalism".
> 
> Sviridov also got it. The symphony was thrown in the middle, the composer gave up with orchestral music for a long time. Moving to Moscow in 1956, he did not take his student work with him ...
> 
> "And she was lying calmly in an old yellow sofa at my grandmother Elizaveta Ivanovna Sviridova on Liteiny Prospect. Then my grandmother got a room on Gaza Avenue, and my mother Tamara Vasilyevna (Georgy Vasilyevich's sister) and my younger uncle Vyacheslav divided the notes from the sofa in half.
> 
> He had the score of the Symphony, but he could not get an idea of its value, since he was not a musician. And only after Georgy Vasilyevich and Slava were gone, sorting through the archive of his son (my cousin), I discovered the Symphony, which was considered missing! "
> 
> - continues Belonenko.
> 
> However, this is not the end of the story. The manuscript was in a bad state, some pages were covered with water, the ink was blurred. At first, Belonenko even decided that this was just a sketch, and not a finished composition. Then the editor of the Complete Works of Sviridov, musicologist Pavel Lukyanchenko, got down to business.
> 
> "There was a lot of empty space on the score sheets. In fact, Sviridov simply did not write a pause for speed. And in some places he was "acting out of hand" - he wrote the score not horizontally, but (apparently, due to a shortage of score paper) vertically.
> 
> It took deciphering work. But fortunately, I worked for more than one year at the Muzyka publishing house, where I passed the school of musical textual criticism under the masters of the old school.
> 
> The Russian Museum also helped a lot, the head of the technological department of which Sergey Vladimirovich Sirro monstrously enlarged the crippled sheets, and even enlightened something in different modes with his "magic rays" (in the museum, Sirro is engaged in layer-by-layer analysis of the paintings of great masters).
> 
> So, after a year of painstaking work, I was able to consider what was originally written by the hand of a great, albeit very young, master at that time ",
> 
> - says Pavel Vasilievich.
> 
> "The symphony is mosaic, as if there is a change of masks at the carnival of life. But what a nagging Russian page - it takes quite a bit! And it doesn't look like it was written by a helpless provincial boy-clumsy.
> 
> Although the author's youth is very noticeable - he is in a hurry to share his feelings with the world. And these feelings - the sea, they whip, and they splash, I will not hold back! .. ",
> 
> - continues Lukyanchenko.
> 
> It is difficult to add anything else to these words of the person who revived the Symphony practically from oblivion. But when will his admiration be shared by the public in Moscow, St. Petersburg and other cities?
> 
> The Irkutsk Philharmonic Society is not at all rich, in the Lapinsh orchestra the salary ceiling is 45 thousand rubles, the second violin group lacks at least two consoles (that is, four musicians), there is no money for the tour ...
> 
> PS Of course, Sviridov's music has thousands of enthusiasts. There are also such active ones as the secretary of the Writers' Union of Russia A. G. Zvyagintsev and the cultural and educational center "Order" headed by him, who did a lot to restore the text of the Symphony.
> 
> There is the mighty Moscow Philharmonic Society and the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation with its All-Russian virtual concert hall, that is, the ability to organize an Internet broadcast from various parts of the country. Now - your solo, gentlemen!
> 
> Sergey Biryukov, "Labor"


https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/reports/neizvestnaya-simfoniya-sviridova/


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## MusicSybarite

Aries said:


> The young Georgy Sviridov wrote a great symphony in 1937. It was long lost but found a view years ago and performed for the first time on 23.09.2016.
> 
> Here is the symphony:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here the story (google translated):
> 
> https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/reports/neizvestnaya-simfoniya-sviridova/


Thanks for posting this symphony hitherto unknown to me. Sounds promising.


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## Cristian Lee

Thomas Schmidt-Kowalski
Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4

Alla Pavlova 
Symphonies Nos. 3, 5 & 6

Alan Hovhaness
Symphony No. 8 op 179 'Arjuna'


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## Subutai

No doubt said before, but Balakirev 1. Why is this not heard more often? For me this is better then the more lauded Borodin 2 (of the 'lesser' Russian giants).


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## Azol

*Jan van Gilse - Symphony No. 3 "Elevation"*
Surely enough, he's had Mahler 3 for inspiration but it's still highly enjoyable work.


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## Radames

Subutai said:


> No doubt said before, but Balakirev 1. Why is this not heard more often? For me this is better then the more lauded Borodin 2 (of the 'lesser' Russian giants).


I love the Balakirev, but not as much as Borodin's 2nd. Another Russian was Ippolitov-Ivanov. He wrote one symphony in E minor. Alexander Kopylov also wrote a single symphony that's not bad.


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## starthrower

I just revisited the two Barber symphonies. Both very good and No.2 is quite adventurous.


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## kyjo

Hydrarchos said:


> I don't really see the point of endless lists, so I'm just highlighting one symphony that I didn't find in the thread yet but which I also consider to be extremely good: Volkmar Andreae's F major symphony of 1901 - his second. It's admittedly somewhat anachronistic, and smacks more than a bit of (the lyrical side of) Brahms in places, particularly in the first two movements. But that's not necessarily a problem and the work is quite original in its use of rhythm in the latter half. For me, it's one of those works that always offers something new.


YES!! I'm so glad to see someone else knows this wonderful work. There are some Brahmsian influences, but overall it's an incredibly engaging and melodically memorable work. The slow movement is of great depth, and the scherzo and finale contain music of great vitality and even quirkiness. His final symphony, the C major from 1920, is an even finer work - possibly a masterpiece - that contains a strikingly powerful funeral march-like slow movement and a triumphant finale. It should appeal to admirers of, say, Franz Schmidt's 4th Symphony (which I'm glad to see has been mentioned many times in this thread). Andreae's two wonderful piano trios are also scandalously neglected.


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## kyjo

dko22 said:


> I'm glad that quite a few posters have featured Swedish romantic symphonies. Although Sweden never produced a figure of the originality of Sibelius or Nielsen, the better composers have always struck me as being particularly melodically gifted. If I had to choose just one work, it would probably be Alfven's 2nd, a work that adds excellent structure and counterpoint to the fine tunes and depth of feeling. I'd rather have that than any of the Brahms' on my desert island. Stenhammar's 2nd is probably what's meant here --no.3 has only a fragment available. Berwald is consistently imaginative but yes, the Singuliere is the best, Atterberg I find variable though the second is wonderful. The third by Lars-Eric Larsson and Rosenberg are another two.


I agree with all of what you say except that Atterberg is variable - he's one of my favorite composers and I deeply love all of his symphonies except for perhaps the 9th. Alfven's 2nd is indeed a fine work, but my favorite of his is the wonderfully life-affirming and tuneful 3rd, which boasts one of the most beautiful slow movements known to me. Other Swedish symphonies I'm fond of (there are many!) include those by Peterson-Berger (esp. the 3rd), Wiren (esp. the 2nd and 3rd), Nystroem (esp. the 3rd), von Koch (esp. the 3rd), Skold (esp. the 2nd), Rangstrom (esp. the 3rd), Pettersson (esp. the 6th and 7th), and Fernstrom (esp. the 6th). The exclusion of basically all Swedish composers from the standard repertoire is a travesty IMO!


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## kyjo

Radames said:


> I love the Balakirev, but not as much as Borodin's 2nd. Another Russian was Ippolitov-Ivanov. He wrote one symphony in E minor. Alexander Kopylov also wrote a single symphony that's not bad.


No one ever mentions Borodin's 1st Symphony, which is a remarkably strong and vigorous work. I consider it be to equally as good as his 2nd.


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## brucknerian1874

I put in a word for Lutoslawski 4 earlier in this thread and I heard Rochberg 5 for the first time recently and was similarly impressed


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## JohnP

I can't hear Erkki Melartin's Symphony No. 4 "Summer Symphony" often enough. It's not just happy music; it's joyous, uplifting. Why it's not regularly programmed escapes me. Audiences, especially in these trying times, would gasp with pleasure.


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## kyjo

JohnP said:


> I can't hear Erkki Melartin's Symphony No. 4 "Summer Symphony" often enough. It's not just happy music; it's joyous, uplifting. Why it's not regularly programmed escapes me. Audiences, especially in these trying times, would gasp with pleasure.


Yes, it's a wonderfully life-affirming work with some really catchy tunes to boot! His epic and atmospheric 3rd Symphony is an even finer work IMO. Melartin is a undervalued composer whose output is well worth exploring - he's very different from his countryman and contemporary, Sibelius.


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## hammeredklavier




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## Gargamel

Azol said:


> *Jan van Gilse - Symphony No. 3 "Elevation"*
> Surely enough, he's had Mahler 3 for inspiration but it's still highly enjoyable work.


I don't hear it.



hammeredklavier said:


>


Where can I get scores for all the M. Haydn symphonies? Some are almost impossible to find.



kyjo said:


> Yes, it's a wonderfully life-affirming work with some really catchy tunes to boot! His epic and atmospheric 3rd Symphony is an even finer work IMO. Melartin is a undervalued composer whose output is well worth exploring - he's very different from his countryman and contemporary, Sibelius.


Much like the russian Miakovsky, he kinda fell into the shadow of the next generation, Madetoja, A. Merikanto and then Kokkonen, all of which are wonderful composers.


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## Hydrarchos

Wonderful, yes. Well-known, no - not even in Finland. There's not much of a "shadow" there in terms of fame there, I'd say. Rather, both Melartin and that crowd after him remained in Sibelius's shadow - the more so since Sibelius continued to be around for such a long time, even when he wasn't actively composing.


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## Hydrarchos

Azol said:


> *Jan van Gilse - Symphony No. 3 "Elevation"*
> Surely enough, he's had Mahler 3 for inspiration but it's still highly enjoyable work.


Agreed; particularly the waltzy fourth movement is great. The wobbliness of soprano Aile Asszonyi does it no favors at all in this recording and kind of ruins the finale for me, unfortunately. I'm not sure about an abundance of Mahler influences, mind you. This symphony came at a time where Van Gilse started to abandon his German-influenced template and moved to the far more personal style of his "Piano Concerto" and the opera _Tijl_.


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## Gargamel

Hydrarchos said:


> Wonderful, yes. Well-known, no - not even in Finland. There's not much of a "shadow" there in terms of fame there, I'd say. Rather, both Melartin and that crowd after him remained in Sibelius's shadow - the more so since Sibelius continued to be around for such a long time, even when he wasn't actively composing.


I think there's a small group of hardcore music lovers who are almost weary of Sibelius, and this allows for more diverse programming. In the 90s and 2000s Kokkonen's opera The Last Temptations was played non-stop at the opera festivals; I don't think Sibelius ever finished an opera.


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## JohnP

Gargamel said:


> I think there's a small group of hardcore music lovers who are almost weary of Sibelius, and this allows for more diverse programming. In the 90s and 2000s Kokkonen's opera The Last Temptations was played non-stop at the opera festivals; I don't think Sibelius ever finished an opera.


Weary of Sibelius? Not this lad. I realize that YYMV, but he's in my top tier. His economy of expression and ability to evoke nature are unparalleled.


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## jim prideaux

kyjo said:


> Yes, it's a wonderfully life-affirming work with some really catchy tunes to boot! His epic and atmospheric 3rd Symphony is an even finer work IMO. Melartin is a undervalued composer whose output is well worth exploring - he's very different from his countryman and contemporary, Sibelius.


Reminder that I has not heard 2 and 3. Had managed to get hold of the other 4 second hand (Grin and the Tampere P.O.) but not as yet 2 and 3.......so streaming 3 now!

Thanks.


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## jim prideaux

Ended up confused this morning as to which of the Melartin symphonies I had in my collection so having resolved this minor setback I have listened to the 3rd by streaming and am now listening to the 2nd and the 4th performed by Grin and the Tampere P.O.


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## Livly_Station

One that hasn't been mentioned in this thread:

Valentin Silvestrov - Symphony No. 5


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## Ice Berg

Hashimoto 2 is often unfairly called mediocre; it's certainly not a technical masterpiece, but I think it's got some very nice orchestration and plenty of catchy hooks.


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## Livly_Station

This Symphony is stunning!

Interesting history too. It was commissioned for the inauguration of the city _Brasília_, in 1960, the new capital of Brazil.

Symphony No. 2, "Brasília", by César Guerra-Peixe.


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## bwv543

Thanks to this thread in the last couple of weeks I've listened to the Dukas symphony, Schmidt 2 & 4, and Raff 5. Raff didn't grab me, but I've tremendously enjoyed the Dukas and Schmidt symphonies and look forward to some of the other recommendations in this thread.


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## MusicSybarite

jim prideaux said:


> Reminder that I has not heard 2 and 3. Had managed to get hold of the other 4 second hand (Grin and the Tampere P.O.) but not as yet 2 and 3.......so streaming 3 now!
> 
> Thanks.


I have a preference for the epic 3rd. Hot stuff.


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## kyjo

Ice Berg said:


> Hashimoto 2 is often unfairly called mediocre; it's certainly not a technical masterpiece, but I think it's got some very nice orchestration and plenty of catchy hooks.


I like both of his symphonies very much. They're colorful, catchy, and undemanding with a slight "Japanese" touch in the melodies.


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## RobertJTh

Let's hear it for the most fun symphony-that's-not-really-a-symphony!


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## Roger Knox

D'Indy - Symphony no. 2 in B-flat major
Ropartz - Symphony no. 3
Tournemire - Symphony no. 5
Gaubert - Symphonie en fa
Le Flem - Symphonie no. 1
Ibert - Symphonie marine
Dietrich - Symphony in D minor
Buettner - Symphony no. 4
Tyberg - Symphony no. 3


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## RobertJTh

Rheinberger's 2nd, "Florentiner".
A really fun-filled piece and probably R.'s best orchestral work. Too bad there's only one (!) recording available and with due respect to Francis championing so much great unknown music, it's rather dull and stodgy. He takes a staggering 53 minutes to get through it, and I suspect the piece can be done easily (and better) in under 45 minutes.


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## SanAntone

I skimmed this entire thread and didn't see any mention of *Stravinsky*'s _Symphony in Three Movements_ or his _Symphony in C_.

They are not among his more well known or performed works, but maybe there is a consensus that they do not qualify for this thread.


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## Kreisler jr

That's funny. I had to look up "Renard" you mentioned in another thread having no clue what it was. But I would never have thought that one would rate the "Symphony in C" and the "in three movements" as lesser known works. A bit behind the 3 famous ballets and maybe even slightly behind the "Symphony of psalms" but not much. I'd guess that at least one of them should make the top 12 best known Stravinsky pieces. The early first symphony is (deservedly) obscure, though.

Compared to the pieces mentioned in #392 where I have not even heard the names of 4 of the composers, I'd rate symphonies by e.g. Weill, Hartmann, Schulhoff as comparably well known


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## Hydrarchos

RobertJTh said:


> Let's hear it for the most fun symphony-that's-not-really-a-symphony!
> 
> View attachment 159779


I'd argue that William Henry Fry's _Niagara_ Symphony of 1854 is perhaps as much fun, albeit of a different variety.


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## Roger Knox

Roussel -- Symphonies 1 and 2


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## Hydrarchos

Roger Knox said:


> Roussel -- Symphonies 1 and 2


Ehm, much as I appreciate these contributions, can you say something about _why_ you like these works, and why others should hear them? Without context, it's just ... a list.


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## Roger Knox

Hydrarchos said:


> Ehm, much as I appreciate these contributions, can you say something about _why_ you like these works, and why others should hear them? Without context, it's just ... a list.


Albert Roussel's First Symphony: _Le Poème de la forêt_ (1904-6) was a real surprise for me. I had no idea of his beginnings with late romantic and impressionist styles. This work is beautifully orchestrated with excellent harmonic and melodic ideas. David Hurwitz has raved (in a positive way!) about Roussel's Second Symphony, which as he says falls somewhere between impressionism and neo-classicism. Because Roussel mastered both styles he could create a truly original work that for me is neither too misty nor too spiky. Hurwitz thinks that Roussel and Charles Tournemire composed the best French 20th-century symphonies.

The Roussel Symphony I had known best previously is No. 3, usually the highest-regarded and certainly a neo-classical standard. But I now prefer Nos. 1 and 2. For context within French orchestral music there is more information on this thread: Orchestral Music/Unheralded French composers of the late romantic and impressionist eras. Roussel is on post #103.


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## Shea82821

H. Brian - Symphonies no.15, 27 & 28. I also love his Gothic Symphony too, but that's a lot more famous (or infamous perhaps?).

A. Moyzes - Symphonies no.1, 5, 8 & 11. Though, I think all of his 12 symphonies are good. Minus the 2nd.

A. Hovhaness - Symphony no.50. All of his mountain-themed symphonies have a particular place in my list of favourite symphonies. I suppose it comes out of having lived in the mountains all my life. But the Mount St. Helens symphony is a particular favourite.

R. Langgaard - Symphonies no.1, 5 (V2), 8, 10, and 13. A real shame Langgaard doesn't get the attention he deserves. After completing a listen-through of his symphonies, I've basically placed him beside Nielsen in the hall of great Danish symphonists. Again, I think they're all good. Even the somewhat inferior 1st version of Symphony no.5 is pretty good. 

E. Rubbra - Symphonies no. 2. 5, 7 & 11. Very tempting to say his last symphony, no.11, is the finest British symphony of the late-20th symphony. But there is another consideration I'll mention.

M. Arnold - Symphony no.9. This is the other consideration. It's a distraught, disturbing, and rather unconsoling piece. Not in any bad way, mind you. It's like Pettersson almost: beauty in the midst of endless tragedy. And despite some saying that the final chord is what ultimately relieves the pain of it all, I don't really think it does. I interpret it as a settling or balance of his turmoil, not a relief. I'm thankful, that at least Arnold has gained a slight cult-following lately, helped by Naxos re-release of Andrew Penny's recordings of all 9. But his comparative neglect - and especially to the 9th - is perhaps even more sad than the symphony itself.


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## Waehnen

I'd like to mention the 3rd Symphony by Joonas Kokkonen. It won the 1st prize of the Nordic Council awards in the 60's and for a good reason. I love the 3rd Symphony.

And not only because Kokkonen is the 2nd cousin of my frandfather.

There is Berglund conducting it. Beautiful modern music!


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## ansfelden

The two Carl Maria von Weber Symphonies - both in c major and exceptionally beautiful.


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## Josquin13

Waehnen said:


> I'd like to mention the 3rd Symphony by Joonas Kokkonen. It won the 1st prize of the Nordic Council awards in the 60's and for a good reason. I love the 3rd Symphony.
> 
> And not only because Kokkonen is the 2nd cousin of my frandfather.
> 
> There is Berglund conducting it. Beautiful modern music!


I completely agree. I mentioned Kokkonen's 4 Symphonies (& Persichetti's 9th) earlier in the thread. It continues to surprise me that most people still don't realize that Kokkonen was one of the great symphonists of the 20th century. & I don't see that as matter of 'opinion'. Rather, I've found that his symphonies just get better & better on further hearings.

By the way, I also like the Oramo, Vanska, Söderblom, & Kamu recordings, too, in addition to Berglund's.


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## Waehnen

Josquin13 said:


> I completely agree. I mentioned Kokkonen's 4 Symphonies (& Persichetti's 9th) earlier in the thread. It continues to surprise me that most people still don't realize that Kokkonen was one of the great symphonists of the 20th century. & I don't see that as matter of 'opinion'. Rather, I've found that his symphonies just get better & better on further hearings.
> 
> By the way, I also like the Oramo, Vanska, Söderblom, & Kamu recordings, too, in addition to Berglund's.


I admit being surprised that Kokkonen is even known of outside Finland! I am most happy about your comment for the symphonies sure do not lack in quality.

He was The Grand Old Man of modern concert music in Finland after the war. He was an influential figure even in his writing and positions in numerous organizations and so the next generation of Finnish composers kind of had an issue with this father figure.

Nowadays Kokkonen is being recognized in Finland as one of the great Finnish composers. Even by the very modernists. Kokkonen was the teacher of Paavo Heininen, who was the teacher of Kaija Saariaho, Magnus Lindberg and the like.


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## hammeredklavier

Gargamel said:


> Where can I get scores for all the M. Haydn symphonies? Some are almost impossible to find.


Btw, "he never wanted his music printed." -Dr. Eva Neumayr 
(



)
"his music was not distributed very widely in his lifetime" -Professor David Wyn Jones (https://theresia.blog/2019/03/rediscovering-michael-haydn-an-interview-with-david-wyn-jones/)


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## Waehnen

Waehnen said:


> I admit being surprised that Kokkonen is even known of outside Finland! I am most happy about your comment for the symphonies sure do not lack in quality.
> 
> He was The Grand Old Man of modern concert music in Finland after the war. He was an influential figure even in his writing and positions in numerous organizations and so the next generation of Finnish composers kind of had an issue with this father figure.
> 
> Nowadays Kokkonen is being recognized in Finland as one of the great Finnish composers. Even by the very modernists. Kokkonen was the teacher of Paavo Heininen, who was the teacher of Kaija Saariaho, Magnus Lindberg and the like.


Sad news from Finland: Paavo Heininen has passed away.


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## HerbertNorman

Waehnen said:


> Sad news from Finland: Paavo Heininen has passed away.


Oh , RIP  bad news!!!


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