# Is 4'33 chamber or orchestral music?



## David OByrne

Is it particularly defined?


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## Sol Invictus

Is an audience a chamber ensemble or an orchestra? That is the question...


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## Bettina

I believe that Cage wrote it for piano. I remember seeing a video (I think it was posted in one of the many 4'33" threads ) where Cage was sitting at the piano and raising and lowering the fallboard during the performance.

However, I assume that it has probably been transcribed for/performed on many other instruments.


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## Vasks

http://edition-peters.com/product/modern/433-cage-centennial-edition/ep6777c?TRE00000/

For any instrument or combination of instruments


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## Bettina

Vasks said:


> http://edition-peters.com/product/modern/433-cage-centennial-edition/ep6777c?TRE00000/
> 
> For any instrument or combination of instruments


Thanks for this link. I did not know that. I had always assumed that the raising and lowering of the piano fallboard were specified in the score for 4'33". But apparently not!


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## Guest

I'm tired of seeing threads about 4'33 anywhere on this music forum. The fact is it is NOT music, but a lack of music. A sparse few keep trying to bring attention to something that deserves to be ignored. And the majority fall right into the trap and reply to these threads because there is controversy. Here I am doing exactly that.

I call for all reasonable minded classical music lovers to boycott, henceforth all threads about 4'33. 

REVOLT I SAY! REVOLT!


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## 433

Bettina said:


> I believe that Cage wrote it for piano. I remember seeing a video (I think it was posted in one of the many 4'33" threads ) where Cage was sitting at the piano and raising and lowering the fallboard during the performance.
> 
> However, I assume that it has probably been transcribed for/performed on many other instruments.


That is correct


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## Pugg

433 said:


> That is correct


You made a account just for this?


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## Pugg

Jerome said:


> I'm tired of seeing threads about 4'33 anywhere on this music forum. The fact is it is NOT music, but a lack of music. A sparse few keep trying to bring attention to something that deserves to be ignored. And the majority fall right into the trap and reply to these threads because there is controversy. Here I am doing exactly that.
> 
> I call for all reasonable minded classical music lovers to boycott, henceforth all threads about 4'33.
> 
> REVOLT I SAY! REVOLT!


Hear gear, and new members should be checked on double accounts.


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## Bettina

Pugg said:


> You made a account just for this?


LOL! And the funny thing is, I actually WASN'T correct. :lol: Turns out the piece is written for any instrument or combination of instruments!


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## Pugg

Bettina said:


> LOL! And the funny thing is, I actually WASN'T correct. :lol: Turns out the piece is written for any instrument or combination of instruments!


I don't trust such "new " members .


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

David OByrne said:


> Is it particularly defined?


I'm still waiting for the Jazz version..............


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## Pugg

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'm still waiting for the Jazz version..............


I could make a Opera out of it or rather a cantata.


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## 433

Pugg said:


> I don't trust such "new " members .


I don't trust "old" members


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## David OByrne

Ok, well this is fascinating. I was under the impression it was just for solo piano. I'm not the most familiar with Cage's output, so I was unsure on that


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## Pugg

433 said:


> I don't trust "old" members


I introduced myself, where's yours ?


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## starthrower

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> I'm still waiting for the Jazz version..............


That's the one with mistakes in it!


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

starthrower said:


> That's the one with mistakes in it!


Cool, improvisational silence blows me away.............


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## 433

Pugg said:


> I introduced myself, where's yours ?


Is that a codeword for something raunchy?


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## 433

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Cool, improvisational silence blows me away.............


Thanks .


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## Triplets

It's a good thing that it wasn't composed by Bruckner. I would hate to have a discussion about which Edition to use, Haas vs Schalk, original 1873, or a completion by Carrigan...


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## Pugg

433 said:


> Is that a codeword for something raunchy?


So you do recognise it?


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## 433

Pugg said:


> So you do recognise it?


What? . .


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## ArtMusic

David OByrne said:


> Is it particularly defined?


It can be solo. As I reported the other day, I performed it solo at my home piano to the exhilaration of my family. Grandma was in tears and clapped. A live performance recording is planned next. It might be a quartet - me (piano), Dad (lip off-whistle), Mom (rhythmic off-clapping of hands) and Grandma (mezzo-soprano).


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese




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## hpowders

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


>


Everybody loves an organ.


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## Pugg

ArtMusic said:


> It can be solo. As I reported the other day, I performed it solo at my home piano to the exhilaration of my family. Grandma was in tears and clapped. A live performance recording is planned next. It might be a quartet - me (piano), Dad (lip off-whistle), Mom (rhythmic off-clapping of hands) and Grandma (mezzo-soprano).


I did wroth a score already if it helps.


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## ArtMusic

Does it matter if I took a Largo interpretation and it takes five minutes instead of four minutes and thirty-three seconds? What's your musical opinion?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

ArtMusic said:


> Does it matter if I took a Largo interpretation and it takes five minutes instead of four minutes and thirty-three seconds? What's your musical opinion?


That slow tempo just ruined the whole vibe and the piece lost its vitality................


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## David OByrne

Pugg said:


> I did wroth a score already if it helps.


Sorry but what is wroth?


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## Blancrocher

David OByrne said:


> Sorry but what is wroth?


Anger--which is the last thing we need in a 4'33'' thread, imo. This is a place for sweet serenity.


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## Pugg

Blancrocher said:


> Anger--which is the last thing we need in a 4'33'' thread, imo. This is a place for sweet serenity.


That will be at first.


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## David OByrne

Pugg said:


> That will be at first.


Ok, whatever


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## Pugg

David OByrne said:


> Ok, whatever


I am fine with that, seeing the like you've got .


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## TurnaboutVox

Perhaps it's the audacity of 4'33" that provokes all the gapes of wroth.


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## David OByrne

Pugg said:


> I am fine with that, seeing the like you've got .


 I don't understand what you're saying


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## Pugg

David OByrne said:


> I don't understand what you're saying


Ok, whatever.


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## Michael42

I think it's chamber music


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Michael42 said:


> I think it's chamber music


Now would it sound any better in an Echo Chamber..............


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## Michael42

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> Now would it sound any better in an Echo Chamber..............


:lol: Ideal way too experience 4'33


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## jdec

I would say anechoic chamber music.


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## Pugg

Michael42 said:


> I think it's chamber music


I like with people with a open mind.


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## Pugg

jdec said:


> I would say anechoic chamber music.


Why don't you find out for us, please report back.


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## 433

Why are you called Pugg?


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## Pugg

433 said:


> Why are you called Pugg?


Why are you 433.


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## 433

Pugg said:


> Why are you 433.


Because there where three threads about the piece when I found this site, now answer my question! .


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## Poodle

It be not music sorry guy


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## David OByrne

433 said:


> Why are you called Pugg?


Hi 433, I wonder the same thing


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