# Bach's keyboard works: Piano or Harpsichord



## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

OK, I am curious about something. Should Bach's keyboard works be played on piano or harpsichord? I know many will say it doesn't matter; just listen to what you like the most. But I just find it interesting that so much of his keyboard works are played on the piano when they were not written for it, not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just interesting. I read somewhere that Bach did not care for the early version of the piano and dismissed it completely, is there any truth to that? If so isn't it kind of ironic that much of his works are played on an instrument that he didn't even like. Is it possible he hated the piano because the early version was simply pretty bad or was he just a super conservative man. Any info you can give me would be welcome.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

There is no "should". More Bach is played on piano than harpsichord because the world is overpopulated with piano players.


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## Ravndal (Jun 8, 2012)

He dismissed a very early version of the piano, but at the end of his life he tried a little more developed piano, and loved it and saw its potencial. I prefer Bach on the piano, because of the countless possobilities and the beautiful sound.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ravndal said:


> He dismissed a very early version of the piano, but at the end of his life he tried a little more developed piano, and loved it and saw its potencial. I prefer Bach on the piano, because of the countless possobilities and the beautiful sound.


I don't know if Bach ever owned a fortepiano, but he became a sales agent for Silbermann's instruments around 1742. A bill of sale survives for one he sold to a musician in Poland as (it is said) do others. Silbermann supposedly improved his design based partly on Bach's earlier criticisms in 1736.


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## shangoyal (Sep 22, 2013)

Definitely no piano in ensemble pieces like concertos. Otherwise, it's equal for me.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Ravndal said:


> He dismissed a very early version of the piano, but at the end of his life he tried a little more developed piano, and loved it and saw its potencial. I prefer Bach on the piano, because of the countless possobilities and the beautiful sound.


I think the harpsichord sounds just as beautiful unless one is allergic to the instrument.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

Either instrument is appropriate, but personally I enjoy his keyboard works played on period instruments. My favourite Well Tempered Clavier is by Ralph Kirkpatrick on the Clavichord (on Archiv).


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

You can play Bach on harmonica and it still sounds good.

Personally, I have acquired a taste for Bach's keyboard works played on harpsichord, or clavichord for that matter. Which goes to show just how sophisticated I am.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Antiquarian said:


> Either instrument is appropriate, but personally I enjoy his keyboard works played on period instruments. My favourite Well Tempered Clavier is by Ralph Kirkpatrick on the Clavichord (on Archiv).


If you can hear it!! :lol:


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

shangoyal said:


> Definitely no piano in ensemble pieces like concertos. Otherwise, it's equal for me.


I almost agree with this. As part of the continuo or even as the featured instrument in a concerto the harpsichord can sound lacy and delicate. Solo is sounds like so many rattling skeletons playing amplified mandolins over a telephone line. It must be the way they're recorded.

I love the expressive sound of a piano better for solo keyboard baroque works. Well, actually I rather like baroque on synthesizer too.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

The very early model piano he tried was highly unsatisfactory, and of course from then to now they are barely the same instrument.

If Bach's scores are marked fur Clavier, that was understood as *either the harpsichord or a clavichord*, or as a colleague put it, whichever variety of plinkety-plonk you had at hand.

The Clavichord was Bach's favored 'plinkety-plonk,' _because it allowed for dynamic control of each note (loud -- soft)._ Harpsichords are one flat line dynamic level, with a mute stop which could be quickly turned on, off -- this too was a different level but had no variable dynamic.

I opt _for Bach's favorite_, the Clavichord (if staying with the Clavier as plinkety-plonk,) because of that control of varied dynamic, or piano -- for the same reason Bach preferred the Clavichord.

Some will argue strongly for the Harpsichord, but since Bach preferred the keyboard with a range of possible dynamic, those arguments are not quite as solid as may seem.

The trouble with the Clavichord is that it is such a quiet instrument it is unsuitable even in a medium sized room, let alone a hall, or as continuo for an ensemble.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

hpowders said:


> If you can hear it!! :lol:


Oh, I just crank up the volume to 11.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Antiquarian said:


> Oh, I just crank up the volume to 11.


That kind of defeats the whole character of the clavichord and makes it sound harsh.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Weston said:


> I almost agree with this. As part of the continuo or even as the featured instrument in a concerto the harpsichord can sound lacy and delicate. Solo is sounds like so many rattling skeletons playing amplified mandolins over a telephone line. It must be the way they're recorded.


Or, as Beecham apparently said. two skeletons fornicating on a tin roof. 

Perhaps it is partly just an effect of recording. I find that recordings also tend to lose much of the richness of the sound of a piano, but perhaps it's just me.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

DrMuller said:


> OK, I am curious about something. Should Bach's keyboard works be played on piano or harpsichord? I know many will say it doesn't matter; just listen to what you like the most. But I just find it interesting that so much of his keyboard works are played on the piano when they were not written for it, not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just interesting. I read somewhere that Bach did not care for the early version of the piano and dismissed it completely, is there any truth to that? If so isn't it kind of ironic that much of his works are played on an instrument that he didn't even like. Is it possible he hated the piano because the early version was simply pretty bad or was he just a super conservative man. Any info you can give me would be welcome.


His favorite keyboard was the organ. The big church pipe organs. More likely though, his compositions and performances (majority are for small ensembles) would have taken place with the clavichord and or the harpsichord. He was a very specific composer. These three keyboards were the keyboards of his time.

Today it doesn't stop anyone from playing it on the piano or the electric guitar. It's all about what floats your musical boat. Bach is long, long dead. My view is we should be aware of past practice, perform /study as it was done in the past, AS WELL AS performing it as we wish according to our "needs" here in July 2013.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Antiquarian said:


> Oh, I just crank up the volume to 11.


Wow, mine only goes to 10.

V


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

I think it's more a matter of taste. But in a larger hall with a larger orchestra you wouldn't be able to hear a harpsichord. Springfield Symphony did the Bach 1st keyboard concerto a few years ago. In a hall that size even with it's good acoustics I never would have been able to hear a harpsichord.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Not liking Bach on harpsichord is caused by not liking the harpsichord. Your deficiency, not mine.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me, Bach on the harpsichord (and Scarlatti for that matter) sounds right.

Others may like piano performances, but keep in mind those sounds and the shadings of the modern piano were foreign sounds to the likes of Bach and Scarlatti.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2014)

I haven't found a keyboard instrument for Bach that I hated. But the harpsichord sounds harsh to my ears as a solo instrument. I have been told a lot of that has to do with the engineering of the recording. Maybe. Some harpsichord recordings definitely sound more pleasant to me than others. Still, for solo keyboard works, I much prefer the modern piano. Would Bach approve? Who knows. It makes for a great academic exercise, but until somebody conjures up his spirit and directly asks him, we are all just farting in the wind. The music more than speaks for itself, regardless of the instrument - that is one of his true geniuses. His works are so versatile. I have listened to his Art of Fugue on organ, piano, harpsichord, a viol group, and a saxophone quartet, and they all sounded marvelous.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

hpowders said:


> For me, Bach on the harpsichord (and Scarlatti for that matter) sounds right.
> 
> Others may like piano performances, but keep in mind those sounds and the shadings of the modern piano were foreign sounds to the likes of Bach and Scarlatti.


It's just like singing a Bach Cantata in anything other then Plattdüütsch sounds silly, all those albums singing in modern German are just a waist of hard earned cash! 

Singing Bach in English is like playing his Keybord works on banjo, only Earl Scruggs would pull that of, oh, and maybe Steve Martin...

/ptr


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ukko said:


> Not liking Bach on harpsichord is caused by not liking the harpsichord. Your deficiency, not mine.


It is the instrument solo that gets to me after any brief to moderate amount of time -- but I have a similar disposition when it comes to the modern grand piano. With instruments, they are fantastic. Solo, even with the range of dynamic and timbrel shading, its still one timbre -- and shallow simpleton that I am, after a while of either instrument solo, I lose interest.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Harpsichord rules in Bach.

Play the Sarabande from Keyboard Partita No. 1.

Listen to the plaintive trill in the second section. Devastating on harpsichord. Bland on piano.


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## pianolearnerstride (Dec 17, 2014)

Prefer Bach on piano. But like harpsichord also.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Both instruments are wonderful. In fact, I even enjoy his Goldberg Variations done on the harp too.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

DrMike said:


> I haven't found a keyboard instrument for Bach that I hated. But the harpsichord sounds harsh to my ears as a solo instrument. I have been told a lot of that has to do with the engineering of the recording. Maybe. Some harpsichord recordings definitely sound more pleasant to me than others. Still, for solo keyboard works, I much prefer the modern piano. Would Bach approve? Who knows. It makes for a great academic exercise, but until somebody conjures up his spirit and directly asks him, we are all just farting in the wind. The music more than speaks for itself, regardless of the instrument - that is one of his true geniuses. His works are so versatile. I have listened to his Art of Fugue on organ, piano, harpsichord, a viol group, and a saxophone quartet, and they all sounded marvelous.


The Scott Ross cycle of the Scarlatti sonatas doesn't sound harsh and is a good example of "non-harsh" harpsichord.


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