# Rock and classical



## Aurelian (Sep 9, 2011)

People who like pop/rock may think classical is "stupid" or "boring". But, would I be correct to say that:

_Well-established pop/rock musicians probably like classical._

Here is a video about rock musicians borrowing from Bach:





The full performance of the last song:


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

I don't know. The years go by and I somehow learned not to deal too much with the majority opinion regarding classical music. I'm a little lonely with my interest in classics and gone are the days when I tried (hopefully casually) to show the beauty of music to people around me. Enthusiasm is not transferable. So (even if I don't deny them musical talent or abilities) I don't really care what rock or pop stars think of anything. And I don't care where they get their inspiration from. I decided not to convince anyone anymore. A little resigned attitude, but life is too short ...


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

We know that Spinal Tap was influenced by Mozart. Or Boccherini.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't compare them - two different categories.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Apples and oranges. I like all types of pop, from rap to jazz to heavy metal. But when I get engrossed in a large scale classical work, pop songs just seem comparatively kinda dinky.


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## norstick (May 18, 2020)

I don't see the point in thinking this way to be honest. It's just different categories in general. 

That said, some rock bands in the RIO and avant-prog movements have done decent use of more modern compositional aspects in their music. Henry Cow was already doing it when they were active but it has become more spread with acts like Univers Zéro and Art Zoyd. The latter even built a studio and became a name working in contemporary electroacoustic and mixed music.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

DaddyGeorge said:


> I don't know. The years go by and I somehow learned not to deal too much with the majority opinion regarding classical music. I'm a little lonely with my interest in classics and gone are the days when I tried (hopefully casually) to show the beauty of music to people around me. Enthusiasm is not transferable. So (even if I don't deny them musical talent or abilities) *I don't really care what rock or pop stars think* of anything. And I don't care where they get their inspiration from. I decided not to convince anyone anymore. A little resigned attitude, but life is too short ...


Why wouldn't you 'care'? You sound a little annoyed - or did I misunderstand you?


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Aurelian said:


> People who like pop/rock may think classical is "stupid" or "boring".


To be fair, the reverse is probably far more frequent, certainly with some TC members.

I've been an active member on progressive rock and classical rock forums for decades, and I never encountered the attitude you're describing.


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

janxharris said:


> Why wouldn't you 'care'? You sound a little annoyed - or did I misunderstand you?


Probably it sounded different. I didn't want to express emotion. Because I don't listen to this genre I'm not interested in the opinions of pop or rock stars. That's all I wanted to say. The introductory post seemed to me as another attempt to show the beauty of classical music to the general public through the influence of successful stars. Maybe it's me, who misunderstand something.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

DaddyGeorge said:


> Probably it sounded different. I didn't want to express emotion. Because I don't listen to this genre I'm not interested in the opinions of pop or rock stars. That's all I wanted to say. The introductory post seemed to me as another attempt to show the beauty of classical music to the general public through the influence of successful stars. Maybe it's me, who misunderstand something.


You just haven't enjoyed the rock / pop you have heard? - there are so many varieties.....


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## DaddyGeorge (Mar 16, 2020)

janxharris said:


> You just haven't enjoyed the rock / pop you have heard? - here are so many varieties.....


I understand and I can agree, but I don't have time to listen to pop/rock, or better yet - I don't want to devote time to it. You're right, here are so many varieties. Varieties of music, literature, visual art... Since everything can't be done, I have to choose, often with a heavy heart. Even in classical music, I don't have time to listen to as much as I would like to. So in the spirit of Occam's razor, I rather avoid genres of art that don't appeal to me that much. I may be deprived of something, but I will be anyway - there are too many possibilities.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I've never found a reason to like rock music. The instruments bore me, the dynamics are very heavy-handed, the melodies are uninteresting, and I don't know what is even supposed to be the point of interest in this genre.

The lyrics?


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Fabulin said:


> I've never found a reason to like rock music. The instruments bore me, the dynamics are very heavy-handed, the melodies are uninteresting, and I don't know what is even supposed to be the point of interest in this genre.
> 
> The lyrics?


There are more gentle types with light and shade I would hazard...but de gustibus non est disputandum.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

DaddyGeorge said:


> I understand and I can agree, but I don't have time to listen to pop/rock, or better yet - I don't want to devote time to it. You're right, here are so many varieties. Varieties of music, literature, visual art... Since everything can't be done, I have to choose, often with a heavy heart. Even in classical music, I don't have time to listen to as much as I would like to. So in the spirit of Occam's razor, I rather avoid genres of art that don't appeal to me that much. I may be deprived of something, but I will be anyway - there are too many possibilities.


I totally echo this. I do admire and enjoy some jazz, blues, folk, and gospel (especially ragtime and jazz piano) but have a very low tolerance for more "high-octane," noise-driven genres like pop and rock and with the incredible diversity of classical music I never find myself voluntarily choosing to listen to non-classical nowadays.

As for the relationship between rock and classical, the type of heavily rhythmic, driving ostinatos that rock is built around can be found in movements like the finales of Beethoven's Appassionata and Prokofiev's 7th sonata, not to mention the Rite of Spring and Bartok's quartets. I actually used to be pretty heavily into classic rock before I even touched classical. It would be interesting to go back and listen to some of that music and see if I can detect any classical influences.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I do like some - quite a lot, I suppose - rock music. A lot that I liked when I was younger no longer does it for me but people like Nick Cave, PJ Harvey, Bob Dylan, Hendrix and others continue to mean a lot to me. I also like a lot of Jazz, mostly bebop and some fusion, and some folk. I don't like rock that emulates classical music and prefer the earthy to the over-produced (especially when a string orchestra is involved). I agree with Brahmsianhorn, above, that classical music is a totally different ballgame. Classical is my first and biggest love but what I get from it is very different to what I get from rock and jazz. I have known people who like one but not the others and a few who like rock and classical. I don't think that there is such a thing as a typical rock fan or that rock fans think alike about other musical forms.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

Aurelian said:


> People who like pop/rock may think classical is "stupid" or "boring".


if so, then it is them who are stupid, it is them who propagate boredom.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Based on total hours spent listening over a lifetime, I would probably say that Rock is my favorite music. It is what I grew up with and what I have listened to most. That said, I love classical (and have for most of my life). I also enjoy many other genres of music. I try to take the different forms for what they are and appreciate them on their own merit rather than trying to compare one form of music to another. There's lots of vapid, poorly crafted "art" out there but there's lots of good stuff out there as well. I try not to close myself off to any of it. 

One of the coolest experiences I ever had in my life was listening to Stevie Wonder for the first time with my youngest son. Also the Beatles Sgt. Pepper's. His whole life he's been exposed to my eclectic taste in music and loves Miles Davis and Vivaldi as well.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I would probably say that Rock is my favorite music.


boo!



BlackAdderLXX said:


> That said, I love classical


one who really loves classical music would not favour products of mass culture.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> one who really loves classical music would not favour products of mass culture.


Not all pop/rock is about mass culture. You have listened to the entirety of it presumably to make that judgement?


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

janxharris said:


> Not all pop/rock is about mass culture.


only because most of these fail to achieve popularity does not mean they don't belong to mass cult.



janxharris said:


> You have listened to the entirety of it presumably to make that judgement?


sure i have, otherwise i wouldn't speak on the subject.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Zhdanov said:


> only because most of these fail to achieve popularity does not mean they don't belong to mass cult.
> 
> sure i have, otherwise i wouldn't speak on the subject.


Ok - your opinion is to be respected but you (attempted) to speak objectively here - that classical music lovers 'would not favour products of mass culture'.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Where would certain CM lovers be without Rock and Pop to ritually denounce? Classical music itself seems to be not enough of a good thing in itself; it must be thrown into sharp contrast with other musics in order to be most completely enjoyed. There is that same shiver, that _frisson_, of self-congratulation that I feel when I contemplate Professional Wrestling or NASCAR!


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> Where would certain CM lovers be without Rock and Pop to ritually denounce? Classical music itself seems to be not enough of good thing in itself; it must be thrown into sharp contrast with other musics in order to be most completely enjoyed. There is that same shiver, that _frisson_, of self-congratulation that I feel when I contemplate Professional Wrestling or NASCAR!


Lol. Those peasants, amirite???


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

A lot of musicians make a living playing a certain genre of popular music. It doesn't necessarily reflect their listening habits.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

I consider myself eclectic and really like Rock. I believe that some classic albums such as _Tales From Topographic Oceans_, _The Dark Side of the Moon_, _Red_ (by King Crimson, not Taylor Swift), _Sgt. Peppers's..._, _Machine Head_, _Led Zeppelin IV_, _A Night at the Opera_, _Strange Days_, _Selling England by the Pound_, _The Smile Sessions_ and others have great music and will still be remembered and praised in the next century. I must say though that what I love the most in music is in classical.


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## williamrong (May 19, 2020)

I'm doing a youtube channel where ill do synthesia versions of both popular rock and classical pieces. Please check it out and like and subscribe as i'm quite new.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUsCajIsdhk-zzPc1wncYjA?view_as=subscriber
I can do some other pieces or do some arrangements of film/pop/rock songs if you reply to this


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## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

I was raised on rock n roll and am saddened by its demise. I don't know what's going on in Rock now; seems it has pretty much taken a back seat to rap and hip hop. I don't think it will ever be what it was when it was young, say c. 1960-80. 

The examples in the OP were by musicians from that era. Maybe as kids growing up, their parents listened to some classical, but I think that classical music has become even more fringe than it was in those times, so I don't know if today's rock musicians are inspired by CM or listen to it at all. 

Rap and hip hop are on a 30 year run and it doesn't appear there is any light at the end of the tunnel. And I would like someone to tell me what great musicians have come out of that scene. The role of the musical instrument is so secondary that it is no wonder the "music" has not progressed at all.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I know a lot of classical musicians who have rock/pop on their playlists. Some conductors. Me - I despise rock, heavy metal, rap, hip hop more than words can express. It's not that I wasn't exposed and inundated with it growing up since it seems everyone else, family and friends, was listening to it. Can't get away from it anywhere - the gym is especially godawful. Prior to the advent of rock, pop music at least seemed to have a sense of beauty with good tunes, nice harmonies, some instrumental writing that wasn't for high school gar(b)age bands. Now it's all gotten so ugly. So many minor keys. I've always sought out more significant, more profound and beautiful works and music that is organized, complex and requires real skill to perform. Our culture - everywhere - is so musically impoverished compared to other eras. Really sad.

But then sometimes I see it through a different pair of ears. A couple of years ago I played a gig with a rock guitarist, Pete Fine, who had written a Concerto for Electric Guitar and orchestra. What a hoot! He did the riffs and stuff that I would have expected, used a fuzz box and all - but what a great piece. The orchestra had a ball, the audience loved it...who knew? I proposed it to several other conductors for something to look into - what a great way to refresh the repertoire and maybe bring in some younger listeners. Oh no....getting older conductors out of their Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky concerto repertoire is nearly impossible.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Wow! "Despise"! I didn't know other musics could be so powerfully negative. I myself just ignore music that I am clearly not the audience for whom it is intended.


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## norstick (May 18, 2020)

Zhdanov said:


> boo!
> 
> one who really loves classical music would not favour products of mass culture.


A lot of rock is specifically not meant to be mass culture so your point is really quite moot. If you really knew about rock, you'd know this as well. I'm finding myself referencing for example the RIO bands of the 70's and all of their offshoots but also a lot of other music that falls into the experimental and progressive rock banner. If you then go into metal there's often a very clear "anti mass culture" view as well.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

Perhaps I am wrong but it seems like those that are giving the thumbs down might be basing there opinion on the well-known rather than the more underground material.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

norstick said:


> A lot of rock is specifically not meant to be mass culture so your point is really quite moot. If you really knew about rock, you'd know this as well. I'm finding myself referencing for example the RIO bands of the 70's and all of their offshoots but also a lot of other music that falls into the experimental and progressive rock banner. If you then go into metal there's often a very clear "anti mass culture" view as well.


Rio bands of the 70s?


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## norstick (May 18, 2020)

janxharris said:


> Rio bands of the 70s?


Bands such as Henry Cow. There's a new book about Henry Cow which sheds a lot of light on their thoughts on mass culture and the music industry as well. The wiki article is okay-ish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_in_Opposition


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

norstick said:


> A lot of rock is specifically not meant to be mass culture so your point is really quite moot. If you really knew about rock, you'd know this as well. I'm finding myself referencing for example the RIO bands of the 70's and all of their offshoots but also a lot of other music that falls into the experimental and progressive rock banner. If you then go into metal there's often a very clear "anti mass culture" view as well.


Exactly. And many classical works were made on commission, so from that point of view a lot of "popular" music is (it could seem a paradox to some here) more about artistic freedom than a lot of classical music written to meet the desires and tastes of kings and aristocrats. Obviously it doesn't mean that art on commission does not have value (and there are a lot of masterpieces to prove it) and art made without concerns about commercial success is automatically good (and there's even more crap to prove it), but just to debunk this rhetoric of the "music for the mass culture".
Even popular music made to sell, as music made for kings can be valid.


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