# Classical music haiku



## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

Mahler's number three
is his longest symphony
but still seems too short.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Listening to this
Schoenberg piano piece
I begin to muse.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Beethoven
More Beethoven
Please please gimme Beethoven


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> Beethoven
> More Beethoven
> Please please gimme Beethoven


Well, so much for the Haiku as a formal structure of 
Line one: five syllables.
Line two: seven syllables.
Line three: five syllables.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

This is a haiku
It's vaguely about music
At least, I think so.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm fond of music.
I really do like music.
I adore music so much that this isn't even a haiku any more.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

PetrB said:


> Well, so much for the Haiku as a formal structure of
> Line one: five syllables.
> Line two: seven syllables.
> Line three: five syllables.


It's a modern re-interpretation of the haiku.


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## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

14th century
Italian ars nova
Feast for ears and soul


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Well, so much for the Haiku as a formal structure of
> Line one: five syllables.
> Line two: seven syllables.
> Line three: five syllables.


The syllable structure of a haiku is actually not as important as the juxtaposition of two ideas or images with a "cutting word" between them, as long as it still has 17 syllables (actually morae, but they're the same thing in English). Traditionally, these would be arranged in lines of 5-7-5, but that's become less important nowadays, as has the requirement for a "seasonal reference" pulled from a defined list of such words.


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## omega (Mar 13, 2014)

Snow in the garden
Ice droplets on the white trees
Time for Sibelius


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## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

Damn it's cold tonight
In frigid San Diego 
Bolero warms me


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Complaining of cold
In Southern California! 
Mozart as ring-tone.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Chattering of birds
summer storms, skating on ice:
Vivaldi seasons.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2014)

Kopachris said:


> The syllable structure of a haiku is actually not as important as the juxtaposition of two ideas or images with a "cutting word" between them, as long as it still has 17 syllables (actually morae, but they're the same thing in English). Traditionally, these would be arranged in lines of 5-7-5, but that's become less important nowadays, as has the requirement for a "seasonal reference" pulled from a defined list of such words.


Plus the 5-7-5 refers to Japanese characters, not English. Hence a "traditional" Japanese haiku will likely lose its structure if translated.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2014)

dusting off
his father's sheet music -
spring moon

Kris Moon Kondo​


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## echmain (Jan 18, 2013)

the music of Bach
soli deo gloria
but I like it too


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## CypressWillow (Apr 2, 2013)

He is singular
Yet he is universal;
Wonder of Chopin!


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## Bas (Jul 24, 2012)

Schubert wrote goodnight to
winter cold's snow white beauty
played as best he could


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Mozart wind
Concerti remind me of Haydn's
Fart symphony.


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## Kopachris (May 31, 2010)

gog said:


> Plus the 5-7-5 refers to Japanese characters, not English. Hence a "traditional" Japanese haiku will likely lose its structure if translated.


Yes, that's pretty much what's meant by "morae."



albertfallickwang said:


> Mozart wind
> Concerti remind me of Haydn's
> Fart symphony.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2014)

Kopachris said:


> Yes, that's pretty much what's meant by "morae."


Ooh, today's new word!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

It's warm this summer,
So I'm playing Tchaiovsky
So I may cool down.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Mystical keyboard
suggesting the rising moon
Claude clearly a loon.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

Bach's soft broken chords,
Sweet, gentle, and yet abstract,
It mesmerises.


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## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

Abe Froman is not
Sausage King of Chicago;
Pierre Boulez is.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

once sung or played
one tone made; then all becomes
forever changed
___________________________

any note you make
goes into the the universe
through infinity


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

PetrB said:


> once sung or played
> one tone made; then all becomes
> forever changed
> ___________________________
> ...


Well, those really are
some of the nicest haikus
on the haiku thread.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

a choir of voices
in massed and glorious harmony
sings to the heavens


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Well, those really are
> some of the nicest haikus
> on the haiku thread.


Oooh, that ^ is pretty damned neat in itself :tiphat:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> Plus the 5-7-5 refers to Japanese characters, not English. Hence a "traditional" Japanese haiku will likely lose its structure if translated.


So, the excuse for going outside the format (or, is a sonnet not in its format of number of lines, groups and a zippy couplet at the bottom, still a sonnet if you don't write in that format, in any language?

The translation rationale is just that, since 'we' are writing Haiku, not translating them.

When forced to completely adhere to the form and trying to replicate metered feet, etc. while being translated, end up pretty miserable and stiff or halting / faltering attempts to give the drift of the originals... just look at all those Victorian and Edwardian era "rhymed couplet" kinda translations of Sappho, for instance (and no wonder so many people first exposed to those are turned away or completely off to Sappho!


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Oooh, that ^ is pretty damned neat in itself :tiphat:


Thank you. Maybe we should start a general musical poetry thread?


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## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

Channeling their pain,
the heartbeat of his people
was Shostakovich.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

MoonlightSonata said:


> Thank you. Maybe we should start a general musical poetry thread?


Oh please nonono  I'd rather leave that to those a little learned and practiced in writing actual poetry, TYVM! 
(BTW, I do not accept pop song lyrics as being 'poetry,' they're song lyrics, a completely different realm.)


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Where the sun can reach, 
where it is against the grass.
The scent of heather.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

No poetry please
Bad poems make me cringe with pain
including this one


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2014)

PetrB said:


> So, the excuse for going outside the format (or, is a sonnet not in its format of number of lines, groups and a zippy couplet at the bottom, still a sonnet if you don't write in that format, in any language?
> 
> The translation rationale is just that, since 'we' are writing Haiku, not translating them.
> 
> When forced to completely adhere to the form and trying to replicate metered feet, etc. while being translated, end up pretty miserable and stiff or halting / faltering attempts to give the drift of the originals... just look at all those Victorian and Edwardian era "rhymed couplet" kinda translations of Sappho, for instance (and no wonder so many people first exposed to those are turned away or completely off to Sappho!


My understanding may be incorrect, or incomplete, but I do not think the 575 is what characterises haiku in English, (Japanese, yes). In English I believe it is the three lines that shape the format.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2014)

after the rain
bomb craters filled
with stars

John Brandi​


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Listening to Cage:
Now it is 4'33"
Hammer Time! Woo Yeah!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> My understanding may be incorrect, or incomplete, but I do not think the 575 is what characterises haiku in English, (Japanese, yes). In English I believe it is the three lines that shape the format.


Sorry, but for the most part, (I won't look for 'them' to cite examples) there are many essays into the form written originally in English, and as people writing in various languages still adhere to the sonnet form / format, No. of lines, meter, rhyme schemes, so have many who have written exquisite Haiku(s).

That said, if what you made is really successful, and 'broke a few conventions of the format,' barely a soul would criticize it. Still, the form, the number of syllables, the rhythm of that -- the compressed small form -- and that requisite two lines setting you up for some sort of relatively startling gestalt as delivered in the last line, are 'what makes it a Haiku.'


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2014)

Well I agree with your last phrase; what makes haiku haiku is the "in the moment" insight.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> Well I agree with your last phrase; what makes haiku haiku is the "in the moment" insight.


LOL. You can disagree all you want, but if it has the content and intent of a Haiku, but is no longer in the 5:7:5 syllable format, you've then written something _hiaku-like_ but not a Haiku.

Poetic forms, their requirements of syllables and meter in the various arrangements defining the different forms, are much more set and rigorous in adhering to those very set patterns, wholly unlike a musical form such as sonata-allegro, or symphonic formats, which require the presence of a few procedural elements and particular key relationships (early common practice, anyway) but for the rest allows all sorts of variants of meter, length, and sundry twists and turns which make quite different overall shapes -- a symphony can still qualify as a symphony while not having such rigorous strictures as to meter, length of its themes, etc.

Poetry, and older poetic forms, Haiku included, do not have the same latitudes. The sonnet has but a few acceptable variants, and I have yet to see a Haiku of other than the 5:7:5 syllable form, and of course, translations from the original language into another do not count


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2014)

I have plenty of English haiku written by English speaking haiku poets and 575 is not a requirement, but no number of black swans will change the truth that all swans are white.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> I have plenty of English haiku written by English speaking haiku poets and 575 is not a requirement, but no number of black swans will change the truth that all swans are white.


I don't find that hard to believe, but question if those are from amateurs or pros, and really wonder if the entire distilled quality is not at least a little lost or corrupted.

Writing something which still uses two lines with the import of setting up an idea or atmosphere and then in the third still including a startling gestalt or summation is of course modeled after the _premise_ of Haiku, but I would no longer call them Haiku, exactly.

Without any authority, then, I'll say that to me it just ain't a Haiku if it is not in that very rigorous 5:7:5 format, because the very essence of what it is is no longer present; even three slightly longer lines working with the Haiku as premise would just lack that stronger pith, or have a mushier pith, not the same strength of punch, etc. Brevity is not just the soul of wit, but a very fixed format brevity is the soul of Haiku.

But hey, currently, school textbooks are including pop song lyrics as poetry... which they almost invariably are not


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2014)

PetrB said:


> But hey, currently, school textbooks are including pop song lyrics as poetry... which they almost invariably are not


I blame the government!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

gog said:


> I blame the government!


Always a safe call, and often more than likely, anyway, since even the best of them are riddled with corruption


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## Josh (Oct 29, 2014)

Who knew that haiku
could be so controversial?
Mozart's wife was hot.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Squonk! Bleep! Ping! Boink! Pow!
Right now I'm listening to
Zonk! Milton Babbitt.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Kopachris said:


> Yes, that's pretty much what's meant by "morae."
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol:


I saw a picture of a morae eel.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Badinerie said:


> No poetry please
> Bad poems make me cringe with pain
> including this one


...she said, winded and
exhausted from carrying 
*War and Peace* around


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## Composer Kid (Oct 4, 2016)

Almost every translation of classic Japanese haikus I have seen does not follow the 5-7-5 thing. It doesn't work as well in English. I'm currently writing short pieces for voice, viola and piano and each piece has a Haiku text. None of them follow that strict form. Check out traditional Haiku poets like Basho. Moving stuff.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Empty ears
Beethoven's thinkin'
Sadness and bliss.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The Good Old Days:

This thread is quite old
posters long gone, locked in time
nostalgic Copland.


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2016)

Cage haiku:

... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...


Non-haiku Cage:

... ... ... ...
... ... ...
... ... ...


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