# Does this sound terrible (I'm musically biased)



## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

Hello.

I composed this little piece in 30 minutes:


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https://soundcloud.com/user305636706%2F1368472773-1

I composed a second piece in 30 minutes last week (It sounds like Telemann Taffelmusik:

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https://soundcloud.com/user305636706%2Fg-major
)

With regards my first piece, I have included a little more thought in terms of modulation and harmony. I haven't learnt how to modulate properly (being a completely self taught new composer). The piece starts in A minor and modulates to D minor then finishes with obviously, A minor. The structure is a kind of binary form with section A being A minor and section B being D minor. Section A and B are intended to contrast but also synergize together - although I ran out of time so could not finish the piece.

I guess the pieces sound Baroque -ish if anything. I want to know if I sound maybe allow myself 1 hour, insetad of 30 minutes so I can refine the pieces further. I'm very strict with timing. Once I have used my 30 minutes for a particular piece, I won't go back and modify it. There is no point spending hours on a composition because I tend to go round in circles. I want to produce quality pieces fast. I compose as a hobby, for fun, and I'm also a son of Vivaldi. He's my idol.

Thank you.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

I wouldn't go so far as to say terrible, but it sounds sloppy. Given that you admitted to spending exactly 30 minutes on it, that's not surprising. You should spend far longer for a better result.

It also only barely resembles Baroque music. You seem to get the surface activity of the style, but the harmonic, formal, and contrapuntal aspects are all significantly different from anything that a 16th/17th century composer would have recognized.


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## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say terrible, but it sounds sloppy. Given that you admitted to spending exactly 30 minutes on it, that's not surprising. You should spend far longer for a better result.
> 
> It also only barely resembles Baroque music. You seem to get the surface activity of the style, but the harmonic, formal, and contrapuntal aspects are all significantly different from anything that a 16th/17th century composer would have recognized.


Maybe I should sit down with a Baroque harmony/counterpoint book and learn harmony, modulations etc. Alas, I don't have the time to do that at the moment.

What style is this music like? Is it completely new? Or more like a random collection of notes? Degenerate Baroque ideas maybe...?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Vivaldi said:


> Maybe I should sit down with a Baroque harmony/counterpoint book and learn harmony, modulations etc. Alas, I don't have the time to do that at the moment.
> 
> What style is this music like? Is it completely new? Or more like a random collection of notes? Degenerate Baroque ideas maybe...?


It sounds like you have a knack for 'generic' bits of what comprises baroque music, but short bits at that. This makes all your "baroque" pieces sound like pastiche, using only the most superficially recognizable features of baroque, the motor / rhythmic, and some more basic chord progressions.

I'd suggest writing whatever you can without trying to _sound like_ music from any particular era or genre. That might teach you more while you are self-teaching, and until then, Walter Piston_ Harmony_ is a good textbook, and do think about somehow getting some kind of instruction.

Right now you have a slight imitative knack, but which is nonetheless musical. Only more time will tell if you will be any good at writing any sort of style, that hopefully your own.

P.s. there is no fast lane to becoming really good, original, or _finding your own voice_. It is lots and lost of writing, a lot of that not the best, and as much study, that may get you there.


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## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

PetrB said:


> It sounds like you have a knack for 'generic' bits of what comprises baroque music, but short bits at that. This makes all your "baroque" pieces sound like pastiche, using only the most superficially recognizable features of baroque, the motor / rhythmic, and some more basic chord progressions.
> 
> I'd suggest writing whatever you can without trying to _sound like_ music from any particular era or genre. That might teach you more while you are self-teaching, and until then, Walter Piston_ Harmony_ is a good textbook, and do think about somehow getting some kind of instruction.
> 
> ...


Ok. I didn't take oppurtunity to do music at school because I chose another subject but I like to do it in my free time. I don't have the time to study alternate knowledge than my school studies at the moment. I will look into this because I get bored over the summer so at least I will have something enjoyable to do. I agree with everything but I'm learning and imitating is I think, the first stage of learning and becoming better at something. Then once I have the acquired knowledge, I can express my musical ideas coherently within some stylistic framework, whatever that may be.

These pieces are also supposed to be played string instruments.


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## Vivaldi (Aug 26, 2012)

PetrB said:


> It sounds like you have a knack for 'generic' bits of what comprises baroque music, but short bits at that. This makes all your "baroque" pieces sound like pastiche, using only the most superficially recognizable features of baroque, the motor / rhythmic, and some more basic chord progressions.
> 
> I'd suggest writing whatever you can without trying to _sound like_ music from any particular era or genre. That might teach you more while you are self-teaching, and until then, Walter Piston_ Harmony_ is a good textbook, and do think about somehow getting some kind of instruction.
> 
> ...


Alternatively, I have a longer piece I composed in about 2 hours. It's got lots of degenerate Bach motives and much of the other stuff you've mentioned. Please, listen and agree/disagree


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https://soundcloud.com/user305636706%2Fpiano

Thank you.

I feel like I need to learn every chord progression in existence. Once I can play them on my keyboard, I'm not constrained to imitation. I imitate because I don't have the tools to do much else.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, to quote what I already posted to your thread in Today's Composers:



> Hey, this is certainly a huge improvement on what I've heard from you previously. Nice work!
> 
> I think the style occasionally deviates from a traditional baroque style, so if that's something you want to avoid, I'd take note. (Personally, I don't think this is such a bad thing, it could evolve into some brand new "neo-baroque" hybrid if you wanted it to.)
> 
> ...


I agree that you should definitely be spending more than 30 minutes on a piece which is two minutes long, even a "speedy" composer such as Mozart took much longer than this! Take time with your composing, and relish in the process. Make sure every note you write has a reason to be there.



> What style is this music like? Is it completely new? Or more like a random collection of notes? Degenerate Baroque ideas maybe...?


The best analogy I can give you (and I hope you won't take this the wrong way) is:

Vivaldi:
http://www.parisdigest.com/photos/louvre_mona_lisa.jpg

You:
http://cdn.motinetwork.net/ratemymspaint.com/mspaint/1202/mona-lisa-mona-lisa--1328193735.jpg

While you have grasped the basics and certainly have an enthusiasm (and the start of some nice ideas), you still have a sizeable journey to travel in being able to detail your work appropriately .



> I'd suggest writing whatever you can without trying to sound like music from any particular era or genre.


Yes, just write. If what you write actually comes out sounding remarkably Baroque, there's no issue with that, just don't force it to sound Baroque. Make sure that it's YOUR music, and not Vivaldi's music.



> Maybe I should sit down with a Baroque harmony/counterpoint book and learn harmony, modulations etc. Alas, I don't have the time to do that at the moment.


If you're serious about composing, commit to daily exercises in Species Counterpoint and Harmony/Figured Bass. It would also be useful for you to read up on form, and listen to lectures which analyse works by great composers. I've compiled a list of educational resources here if you're interested: http://www.64digits.com/users/index.php?userid=Stevenup7002&cmd=comments&id=501037

Good luck,
-Steven


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