# Nikolai Medtner



## Air

Another one of those "German Russians" along with Anton Rubinstein, Sergei Taneyev, and (the alter-ego of) Tchaikovsky that wrote much in the vein of Brahms. I've been enwrapped in his music for a couple days straight and am starting to fear for my health. 

I can't get enough of Medtner. When I first heard him, he was hard to follow, much like Taneyev, due to the lack of distinct melodic lines. Now I think the complexity of his music is fantastic, especially his piano works. Sonata Romantica, Reminiscenza, and Minacciosa are a few of my favorites. For those who can't swallow piano music, his 3 piano concerti are fantastic and much reflect Rachmaninoff's four. He also wrote a piano quintet and a few violin sonatas.

I've started to collect some Medtner as I have acquired a few of Gilels' recordings (fantastic, by the way, and highly recommended), but I hope also to get some of Hamelin's, Tozer's, and Moseiwitsch's (as well as the rare ones of Medtner himself). 

Anyways, I hope there's a few Medtner fans out there.


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## Taneyev

Try to get is fantastic huge "epic" violin sonata by Oistrakh. Great piece and great play.And he was a very fine pianist. I¡ve a LvB sonata by him, and is wonderful.


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## Weston

I have only the piano concertos numbers 1 and 3 released on Naxos, Vladimir Ziva / Moscow Symphony Orchestra, Konstantin Scherbakov, piano. They are very fine indeed, though I would not have noticed a Rachmaninoff connection. Maybe on further listening.


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## Sid James

I remember hearing some of his works on radio, in a program devoted to his music. I can remember that it defintely sounded quite distinct, it wasn't like any other Russians of the period whose music I know.

I also remember an interveiw with pianist Marc-Andre Hamlelin on radio recently, who has recorded some Medtner. He talked about how the complexity & length of Medtner's music meant that it was somewhat neglected before the coming of the LP. He actually said that we have become more serious listeners, which means there is now a market for this type of muisc, whereas before WW2, people were mainly interested in hearing miniatures for the piano. It was uncommon in those days for a recital to include a sonata or something long like that, people liked shorter works. Nowadays, it's the opposite, we are drawn in by something that's complex and long...


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## Lukecash12

Anyone ever take a look at his Knight Errant For Two Pianos?


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## slgnesin

comparatively speaking,I prefer to listen the record of Gilels.im currently playing his sonata op.22 and op.5 and forgotten melodies op.38,i feel very tired playing his works,but never got such a feeling when playing others' composition,cuz the most complex structure i've ever seen,at least i do think so.my sister bought me a book about his life and music recently,wanna collect any article,book,dissertation,record about him.last year the book so-called "Николай Метнер:Вопрос Биографии и Творчества" was published in Moscow,but I have no chance to go to Moscow again recently.and actually my Russian skill gradually go backward...expect English version



Lukecash12 said:


> Anyone ever take a look at his Knight Errant For Two Pianos?


Knight Errant is my favorite!!!


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## Air

slgnesin said:


> i feel very tired playing his works,but never got such a feeling when playing others' composition


Very curious. I have the exact same feeling when I play Medtner - his works are a test of stamina for any pianist. It doesn't help that I'm playing the 2nd Dithryamb from the op. 10 set: one of the most self-absorbed, sprawling work of his (with a corpulently unbalanced intro, if you know what I mean).


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## Ukko

Air said:


> I've started to collect some Medtner as I have acquired a few of Gilels' recordings (fantastic, by the way, and highly recommended), but I hope also to get some of Hamelin's, Tozer's, and Moseiwitsch's (as well as the rare ones of Medtner himself).
> 
> Anyways, I hope there's a few Medtner fans out there.


The recordings of Medtner playing his own works were made near the end of his life. He was ill, and his technique greatly deteriorated. He made the recordings because he badly needed the money. You should save yours.


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## Sebastien Melmoth

I have Hamelin's complete Medtner Sonata cycle--which is very good; however, can't say it beats Skryabin's Sonata cycle.

http://www.amazon.com/Medtner-Compl...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1289149843&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Sonatas...2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1289149875&sr=1-2-spell


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## myaskovsky2002

Medtner? I think I have every work that was recorded until now, sometimes more than one version, the Hamelin version, I have it also.

http://pages.videotron.com/svp/

You can see my list.

Martin Pitchon


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## clavichorder

I've just gotten into Medtner and am obsessed. Its the skazki(russian fairytales) that I most admire and Hamish Milne does a brilliant job.

There's some great videos on youtube of Berezovski playing many of the skazki 












Can't get enough of them.


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## clavichorder

I love "March of the Paladin."


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## clavichorder

Now I'm getting into Dithyramb! Played by Hamish Milne.


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## clavichorder

I'm almost as obsessed with Medtner as I am with the internet.


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## clavichorder

Looking for the best recording out there of the Night Wind sonata. Help would be appreciated. I've heard two so, far, Milne and Hamelin.


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## clavichorder

I discovered an arrangement by Heifetz of a skazka, op. 21 no. 1. I believe it really showcases the tune in this piece, Medtner at his most melodic. Medtner lovers on this site, let me know what you think!


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## Aramis

clavichorder said:


> I discovered an arrangement by Heifetz of a skazka, op. 21 no. 1. I believe it really showcases the tune in this piece, Medtner at his most melodic. Medtner lovers on this site, let me know what you think!


Well, it's not much of a melody, you know... och, wait, we already been there.


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## clavichorder

This time I'm curious though. I promise, no angry bickering. Can you elaborate? It obviously doesn't strike you whereas it does me, what about it seems "not much to you". I think that if it were naked, if you were to just hum the tune without the harmony flashing through your head, it would seem less impressive, but I love the construction of the piece and what it does with this striking pattern. 

I was hoping though that some other Medtner lovers would get to see this piece and be impressed with its emotional content as played on the violin. I really find it a stunning piece.


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## clavichorder

Or, should it be: grrrr, Aramis you twerp. And later, I thank Aramis for my success in life when I'm not spending so much time on TC?


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## myaskovsky2002

Aramis said:


> Well, it's not much of a melody, you know... och, wait, we already been there.


Awesome

Martin


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## Ukko

clavichorder said:


> Or, should it be: grrrr, Aramis you twerp. And later, I thank Aramis for my success in life when I'm not spending so much time on TC?


Likely, _Aramis_ is rebuking you out of love (possessing a heart big enough to love both you and _Polednice_). But I am sure he realizes that you will have forgotten him in the midst of your success.


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## Lukecash12

Today I'd recommend listening to Medtner's Violin Sonatas. Very melodic, yet still populated with Medtner's entertaining idiosyncracies.


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## alexi

I only until recently got captivated by his music, the first time I heard his third piano concerto I was in heaven. The piano and the orchestra 'communicate' so well, they really complete each other.


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## clavichorder

I am really digging this:


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## clavichorder

Hilltroll72 said:


> Likely, _Aramis_ is rebuking you out of love (possessing a heart big enough to love both you and _Polednice_). But I am sure he realizes that you will have forgotten him in the midst of your success.


I have not forgotten Aramis!


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## Headphone Hermit

my introduction to Medtner came when Nikolai Demidenko played a piece of his as an encore at a local concert last year and declared that he was a genius...... Nikolai, you are right! Thanks so much for your direction!


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## hpowders

I just purchased this CD of the Medtner Piano Concertos 2 & 3, thanks to dholling's recommendations.

After repeated hearings, I can now say the Medtner Second Piano Concerto is terrific!

Big, bold, unashamedly romantic.

I doubt if the performance by Nikolai Demidenko can be bettered!


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## MagneticGhost

hpowders said:


> Big, bold, unashamedly romantic.


Words that, when applied to Piano Concertos, make me drop everything. 
Listening to a performance on Spotify now.
Never come across this composer before and enjoying immensely


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## hpowders

MagneticGhost said:


> Words that, when applied to Piano Concertos, make me drop everything.
> Listening to a performance on Spotify now.
> Never come across this composer before and enjoying immensely


It's like Rachmaninov, but more rhapsodic, in my opinion.


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## clavichorder

hpowders said:


> It's like Rachmaninov, but more rhapsodic, in my opinion.


Hopefully you will come to like his unique style of miniature for solo piano as well. That, in my opinion, is his most original body of work. I'm referring to the fairy tales, or skazki. There is a great concentration of his creativity in many of these pieces, and I think it is best represented in one single piece, the Sonata Skazka, which was originally one movement but he later wrote two more. This movement is a hybrid of his skazki and his sonatas, and it lives up to that. One of my favorite piano pieces of the 20th century. Highly organized and without any thinning of inspiration in the more academic(but still worthwhile) sonatas.


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## hpowders

clavichorder said:


> Hopefully you will come to like his unique style of miniature for solo piano as well. That, in my opinion, is his most original body of work. I'm referring to the fairy tales, or skazki. There is a great concentration of his creativity in many of these pieces, and I think it is best represented in one single piece, the Sonata Skazka, which was originally one movement but he later wrote two more. This movement is a hybrid of his skazki and his sonatas, and it lives up to that. One of my favorite piano pieces of the 20th century. Highly organized and without any thinning of inspiration in the more academic(but still worthwhile) sonatas.


I've heard of Fairy Tales. But haven't listened to it yet.

Thanks for the information, clavichorder!


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## Cosmos

I love Medtner! He wrote one of the best sets of piano sonatas IMO. Also, his piano concertos and violin sonatas are great works. All in all, a composer who doesn't get the recognition I think he deserves


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## hpowders

Probably because he didn't compose the kind of memorable melodies Rachmaninov is famous for.


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## Bulldog

hpowders said:


> Probably because he didn't compose the kind of memorable melodies Rachmaninov is famous for.


I keep reading about those fantastic Rach. melodies and how Medtner is far behind when it comes to memorable memories. I can't agree. For me, Medtner's themes are just as memorable as Rach's; actually I think they have greater staying power. I would offer Medtner's violin sonatas as good examples.

In a way, I regret comparing these two composers. Before reading this thread, I never thought of comparing them.


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## hpowders

Bulldog said:


> I keep reading about those fantastic Rach. melodies and how Medtner is far behind when it comes to memorable memories. I can't agree. For me, Medtner's themes are just as memorable as Rach's; actually I think they have greater staying power. I would offer Medtner's violin sonatas as good examples.
> 
> In a way, I regret comparing these two composers. Before reading this thread, I never thought of comparing them.


I'm not familiar with them but in listening to Medtner's Third Piano Concerto, I didn't find one memorable melody to grab me.

The second piano concerto has a couple and I gave it proper due on Current Listening. This one's impressive.

I hear similar style between Medtner and Rachmaninoff-all the way through Medtner's Second Piano Concerto. They each dedicated their second concertos to each other.


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## Headphone Hermit

hpowders said:


> I've heard of Fairy Tales. But haven't listened to it yet.
> 
> Thanks for the information, clavichorder!


There are plenty of these to enjoy

BTW, Hamish Milne's set are also interesting, even though I have a soft spot for Demidenko's playing


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## Headphone Hermit

hpowders said:


> Probably because he didn't compose the kind of memorable melodies Rachmaninov is famous for.


 .... not because he settled in Britain and didn't tour as much as Rachmaninov???


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## hpowders

Headphone Hermit said:


> .... not because he settled in Britain and didn't tour as much as Rachmaninov???


I don't know. Maybe.


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## clavichorder

Some of his most lovely music can also be found in the 'non skazki' piano miniatures. I am not only speaking of some of the 'forgotten melodies', but of odd pieces here and there, like the Dithyramb, or the Idylle from the three Arabeskes op 7.

There is the more lovely and heart melting Medtner, and then there is the more vigorous, modern, and chromatic/rhythmic Medtner. There is also a more academic Medtner, and a more pale late romantic Medtner who uses his own motifs too much, a more classically oriented Medtner, and everything in between(including the very favorable categories mentioned at first).

Don't dismiss him on the account of what you don't like, rather, find what you do like and love it, and you will be richly rewarded and perhaps will feel better disposed to accept and occasionally like, what you didn't initially.

The lovely Idylle






The thematically linked, but very different 'forgotten melodies', Danza Silvestra and Canzona Serenata










The almost jazzy Danza Rustica, which can be played faster or slower


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## hpowders

I played the Medtner Second Piano Concerto No. 2 last night. This could very well be the most neglected great piano concerto ever written and I wonder why?


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## Triplets

hpowders said:


> Probably because he didn't compose the kind of memorable melodies Rachmaninov is famous for.


That is the conventional wisdom. Every review of a Medtner starts with a quotation "Rachmaninoff without the Tunes".

It probably didn't help that his brand of Romanticism was out of step with the times, and that as an exile, he didn't get the kind of support within his home country that might have won him more long term exposure.


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## hpowders

Well, I've exposed myself to the Medtner Second Piano Concerto for several months now and I can say without reservation, the memorable melodies are there!


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## clavichorder

The complete Medtner experience is essentially available in listening to an excellent rendition of his first piano sonata, op 5. This performance at the Tchaikovsky competition by Lucas Debargue, is remarkably, that performance:


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## Guest

Yevgeny Sudbin has recorded 3 Medtner Piano Concertos for BIS; all are uniformly excellent.


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## tdc

clavichorder said:


> The complete Medtner experience is essentially available in listening to an excellent rendition of his first piano sonata, op 5. This performance at the Tchaikovsky competition by Lucas Debargue, is remarkably, that performance:


Somehow I started watching this link and ended up getting distracted and doing something else while it continued to play. I came back a little while later and thought - hey why does this piece sound so familiar to me? Almost as if I've known and loved it for years... yet I have no recollection of ever listening to Medtner's First Piano Sonata - how could this be?!

Then I realized in the second half of the video he is playing Ravel's _Gaspard de la Nuit_. :lol:

I really enjoy that man's piano playing.


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## Xaltotun

I've never heard any Medtner but I've become very interested since I read a wonderful book about his _brother,_ Emil. (The book also dealt with Nikolai quite a lot. The book is _The Russian Mephisto_ by Ljunggren, and it's also about Sergei Rachmaninov, Rudolf Steiner, Jung, Freud, Nietzsche, Goethe, Wagner, Andrei Belyi and... Adolf Hitler.) I'll take this thread as my starting recommendations for Medtner's music, but I'll gladly take some more yet.

Did you know that Nikolai's brother Emil played a great part in Nikolai's art? He guided his brother with his visions, philosophy and abstract thinking, but he lacked the creativity. Emil gave his little brother everything, including his wife. The brothers were both like half a person, without the other, they started getting anxious and weird. But together they were like one big genius artist.


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## Cosmos

Xaltotun said:


> I've never heard any Medtner but I've become very interested since I read a wonderful book about his _brother,_ Emil. (The book also dealt with Nikolai quite a lot. The book is _The Russian Mephisto_ by Ljunggren, and it's also about Sergei Rachmaninov, Rudolf Steiner, Jung, Freud, Nietzsche, Goethe, Wagner, Andrei Belyi and... Adolf Hitler.) I'll take this thread as my starting recommendations for Medtner's music, but I'll gladly take some more yet.
> 
> Did you know that Nikolai's brother Emil played a great part in Nikolai's art? He guided his brother with his visions, philosophy and abstract thinking, but he lacked the creativity. Emil gave his little brother everything, including his wife. The brothers were both like half a person, without the other, they started getting anxious and weird. But together they were like one big genius artist.


Really? I'll have to check the book out if I can. Always enjoy reading up on favorite composers.

For specific recommendations, I'll say to check out his Piano Concertos 2 and 3, his 3rd violin sonata, and any piano sonata


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## TxllxT

*Nikolai Karlovich Medtner (1880 - 1951)*


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## TxllxT




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## TxllxT




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## Marinera

really like the Night wind.


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## Xaltotun

Listening to the Night Wind sonata now for the first time... I think I'm in love.


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## EdwardBast

Xaltotun said:


> Listening to the Night Wind sonata now for the first time... I think I'm in love.


I prefer the G minor sonata, especially as performed by Gilels:


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## clavichorder

A very dramatically contrasting set of skazki are the op 20:


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## Pugg

Daniil Trifonov - Medtner Three Fairy Tales 
I am being bold and adding a small but fine video.


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## MelodicMi88

OK I’m an advanced pianist and have been trying to get my ears and musical sensitivity wrapped around the music of Medtner. I’m having difficulty following the Drammatic flow of his compositions . Somehow they don’t yet strike me as improvisatory but rather difficult to follow the Drammatic intention and timing of the music . And please pardon this observation but there seems to be too much fortissimo dynamic from major performers of his music . I want to like his compositions so I’ll continue listening.


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## flamencosketches

Bump for a great composer... any fans?

I've been enjoying Marc André Hamelin's CD of "Forgotten Melodies", which is somewhere between Rachmaninov, Scriabin, and Brahms, in my estimation. 

Seems not many have recorded his solo piano music. Any other favorites as far as recordings?


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## chill782002

flamencosketches said:


> Bump for a great composer... any fans?
> 
> I've been enjoying Marc André Hamelin's CD of "Forgotten Melodies", which is somewhere between Rachmaninov, Scriabin, and Brahms, in my estimation.
> 
> Seems not many have recorded his solo piano music. Any other favorites as far as recordings?


I'm a huge fan. Think I may have mentioned this elsewhere but Demidenko and Bekhterev have made some great recordings of Medtner.


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## insomniclassicac

From where I sit, Medtner's Ukranian-inspired rhythms seem to me so tricky and singular to bring off in a way which doesn't make a clunky, jerky hash of the music, I have as yet discovered but a tiny handful of modern pianists assuredly up to the task: *Marc-André Hamelin, Hamish Milne, Yevgeny Sudbin,* and possibly--and perhaps surprisingly--*Florian Noack*.

Have I overlooked other great interpreters? Medtner is most defiantly no Rachmaninoff of Scriabin, where a performer can still sometimes skate by with merely an impressive technique and a meltingly-gorgeous tone. No, there's definitely another, immensely rarer endowment boldly deciding the boundary here: uniting absolute pitch-perfect, preternatural timing with a keen talent for communicating architecture (Medtner's idiosyncratic rhythms can often be jarring, to the point of being upsetting, if one can't see where they're going) and an innate gift for brilliant musicality. At least, this is what my ear seems to demand in considering a Medtner performance a worthy one.

Am I missing other recent Medtner geniuses of this stripe beyond these I have named?


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## joen_cph

Depends on how you define recent, but Ponti/Cao's decades-old recording of the 3th Concerto is very different from the others, IMO, faster, but also allowing a more impressionistic flow than any Russian heaviness; it's my personal favourite.

Zhukov's likewise old recording of the 1st Concerto is the best one available, IMO, very dramatic and intense.
Shatskes old approach in the 2nd Concerto is certainly different too, and very serious and heavy.

Demidenko, Madge, Scherbakov and Tozer also recorded the concertos and some sonatas (none from Scherbakov, I think). The concertos are works that allow a good deal of interpretative freedom, and the results tend to be interesting. 

What I heard by Nikolayeva didn't impress me, seemed a bit sketchy.

Milnes' set, now on Brilliant classics, is quite essential, idiomatic and well-played IMO.

Yudina, Gilels, Ziilberstein, Kissin, Grinberg, Svetlanov, Richter, Tozer and Balser are among those who recorded scattered sonatas, often interesting; and I own a set of various Medtner works by Derzhavina, but I wasn't that impressed, yet haven't digged much into it, Balser (on Koch) seems to be of more value.


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## moscheles

I wanted to submit some notes regarding things I noticed about Nikolai Medtner after several listens to his piano sonatas.

Nominally, Medtner fits into a generation of russian pianist/composers of the late 19C / 20C including

Lyapunov b.1859
Scriabin b.1871
Rachmaninoff b.1873
Bortkiewicz b.1877​
In his earlier sonatas, up to about sonata 6, Medtner composes for the instrument as would be expected for his contemporaries. However, something... strange happens in his late sonatas. Here Medtner goes not forwards towards atonality to presage Prokoviev/Stravinsky. Instead he goes backwards and becomes ever more traditional and "Germanic" in his piano work. In some irony, his late sonatas start to sound like Robert Schumann.

Your thoughts?


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## flamencosketches

moscheles said:


> I wanted to submit some notes regarding things I noticed about Nikolai Medtner after several listens to his piano sonatas.
> 
> Nominally, Medtner fits into a generation of russian pianist/composers of the late 19C / 20C including
> 
> Lyapunov b.1859
> Scriabin b.1871
> Rachmaninoff b.1873
> Bortkiewicz b.1877​
> In his earlier sonatas, up to about sonata 6, Medtner composes for the instrument as would be expected for his contemporaries. However, something... strange happens in his late sonatas. Here Medtner goes not forwards towards atonality to presage Prokoviev/Stravinsky. Instead he goes backwards and becomes ever more traditional and "Germanic" in his piano work. In some irony, his late sonatas start to sound like Robert Schumann.
> 
> Your thoughts?


No thoughts as I've heard none of them, but you've piqued my interest... care to recommend a good recording of the late Medtner sonatas? I have a disc coming to me in the mail with Nikolai Demidenko playing various shorter Medtner works, but alas I don't think it contains any piano sonatas. How many did he write?


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## soni

flamencosketches said:


> No thoughts as I've heard none of them, but you've piqued my interest... care to recommend a good recording of the late Medtner sonatas? I have a disc coming to me in the mail with Nikolai Demidenko playing various shorter Medtner works, but alas I don't think it contains any piano sonatas. How many did he write?


Medtner composed 14 sonatas. I don't own it, but there seems to exist a disc of Hamelin playing all of them. All 14 sonatas are very interesting - the Sonata Triad op 11 is lovely and is the one I'd start with perhaps. Medtner's most significant work I think is his beautiful Piano Quintet.

I had a Medtner phase when I was about 13 and I still love his music, although I don't listen to it often anymore.


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## clavichorder

Cahill Smith's Forgotten Melody Cycle (op 38 and 39 excluding 40), is really stunning. In some ways the Forgotten Melodies as a collection are his most special and profound work. Op 38 through 39 is very listenable as a unit, as it is so cyclic.


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## golfer72

Im a big Medtner fan as well. His music can take repeated listens to click but its very rewarding when it does. I read a paper about his sonatas and it said each movement has two themes which compete against each other until one "wins". Interesting. His shorter works are very good as well


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