# Favourite variations?



## Sid James

The other day, I hear a program of variations on the radio. Was made up of:

*Elgar*- _Variations on an Original Theme (Enigma)_
*Brahms* - _Variations on a theme by Handel_
*Stanford *- _Variations on an English Theme_
*Dvorak* - _Symphonic Variations_

*What is your favourite set of variations and why?*

My favourite is *Britten*'s _Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge_. I like it because it is modern, exciting, and no two variations are alike. It is made up of different movements in various forms, eg. waltz, aria, and a mighty fugue at the end. Also, its one of the greatest works for string orchestra of the C20th. I also like his _Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Purcell "A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra." _But not as much as the former.


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## Taneyev

To me, Reger's piano var.and fuge on a Telemann theme. Extraordinary.


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## World Violist

Either Elgar's Enigma or Rachmaninoff's Paganini. I like late Romantic-era variation pieces quite a bit. And the Goldberg variations are probably the runner-up.


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## Lisztfreak

World Violist said:


> Either Elgar's Enigma or Rachmaninoff's Paganini.


In addition to those, I also have to mention Britten's Bridge Variations and Franck's Symphonic Variations.


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## Weston

Andre said:


> My favourite is *Britten*'s _Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge_. I like it because it is modern, exciting, and no two variations are alike.


Yes, we don't need all those variations that are the same. 

Being such a Beethoven fan you would think I'd enjoy his variations, but usually I don't. His variations in the last movement of his last piano sonata (or was it next to last?) are awesome however.

I like early baroque variations like Sweelinck's treatment of _Mein junges Leben hat ein End_ They are often over before the chord progression wears out its welcome.


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## howlingmadhowie

beethoven ends opus 109 (the e-major) and opus 111 (the c-minor/c-major) with variations. the last movement of opus 110 (a-flat-major) is however not made of variations.


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## xJuanx

Goldberg Variations by Bach! Pinnock and Gould versions are my favourite.


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## Lang

*Elgar,* Enigma Variations *Schoenberg,* Variations on a Recitative and Variations for Orchestra


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## Aramis

Vaughan Williams, Fantazia on Theme by Thomas Tallis.


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## Conor71

Elgars Enigma Variations are my favourite because they are so beautiful! - I especially like the Nimrod Variation


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## Edmond-Dantes

I'm going with Word Violinist and choosing Rachmaninoff's Paganini...


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## Elgarian

Weston said:


> Yes, we don't need all those variations that are the same.


Oh flipping heck. I was just about to launch my series of compositions called: 'Samenesses on a theme by ...'

I'd like to give an honourable mention for Parry's _Symphonic Variations_, but then stake my claim for Elgar's _Enigma_, my favourite far, far beyond all other contenders.


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## Edward Elgar

Elgar's Enigma Variations, I can't think of a piece with more deliciously juicy personal inferences and hidden secrets (or enigmas if ou prefer!). From one shy little motif, Elgar is able to vividly decribe the characters in his life so well you could end up knowing them better then they knew themselves! Each variation changes mood significantly which keeps the work fresh and exiting over multiple listenings (I havn't got tired of it yet!). Also, I find it amusing how Elgar describes himself as a shy and melencholy individual at the beginning, and then a bold and heroic individual at the end. He's almost saying, "I get by with a little help from my friends", just more artistic and articulate that the Beatles!


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## PostMinimalist

THere is also a lovely set of Orchestral variations by Kodaly called 'The Peacock'. Absolutely delightful orchestration.
FC


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## LvB

Rubinstein's _Theme and Variations_ for piano, in G Major, Opus 88, is an absolutely stunning piece, easily one of the best sets of variations for solo instrument. He also wrote a quite amusing set of variations on 'Yankee Doodle' at the conclusion of his one trip to North America.

{edit} Oops. Sorry, I forgot which forum I was in, and added a piano piece to an orchestral thread.... Er, just imagine that it's been orchestrated.


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## Elgarian

Edward Elgar said:


> Elgar's Enigma Variations, I can't think of a piece with more deliciously juicy personal inferences and hidden secrets (or enigmas if ou prefer!). From one shy little motif, Elgar is able to vividly decribe the characters in his life so well you could end up knowing them better then they knew themselves! Each variation changes mood significantly which keeps the work fresh and exiting over multiple listenings (I havn't got tired of it yet!). Also, I find it amusing how Elgar describes himself as a shy and melencholy individual at the beginning, and then a bold and heroic individual at the end. He's almost saying, "I get by with a little help from my friends", just more artistic and articulate that the Beatles!


I really enjoyed this description of it. Thanks.


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## Herzeleide

Undoubtedly, the chaconne from BWV 1004.


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## Rondo

_Peacock_ Variations, _Enigma,_ and Brahms' Variations on Haydn. There's also _For New York,_ (Variations on Themes by Bernstein) by John Williams, which is pretty good.


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## JTech82

I would probably go with Elgar's, Brahms', and Rachmaninov's. Those are the ones that stand out to me, although Hindemith's is also very good.


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## Lisztfreak

Edward Elgar said:


> Also, I find it amusing how Elgar describes himself as a shy and melencholy individual at the beginning, and then a bold and heroic individual at the end. He's almost saying, "I get by with a little help from my friends", just more artistic and articulate that the Beatles!


I also find brilliant how, in that last variation, he recalls the variations of his wife and of his best friend, stating clearly who are the most important people in his life. He even gets a bit too passionate recalling Nimrod, compared with the quite restrained Alice's theme...


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## Weston

Edward Elgar said:


> Elgar's Enigma Variations, I can't think of a piece with more deliciously juicy personal inferences and hidden secrets (or enigmas if ou prefer!) . . .


I clearly need to go back and relisten to this armed with this passionate bit of insight. The only enigma to me so far has been what all the fuss is about. They simply havent grabbed me yet like the cello concerto has.

Isn't there supposed to be a hidden variation somewhere within or implied? Or is that just hype? Have any scholars speculated on what that might be - in layman's terms?


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## confuoco

Except already mentioned I love Brahms piano variations - wonderful Variations and Fugue on the Theme by Handel (with Goldberg variations and Diabelli variations the best in the repertoair, I think) and also heroic-melancholic Variations on the Thema by Paganini (recommend Gilels on youtube). Generally, variations are my favourite form.


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## Elgarian

Weston said:


> Isn't there supposed to be a hidden variation somewhere within or implied? Or is that just hype? Have any scholars speculated on what that might be - in layman's terms?


There has been an enormous amount of speculation about it over the years. Elgar seemed to imply that there was a theme never actually stated in the music itself, but which 'goes with' the main theme. I forget exactly how he described it. There have been ingenious attempts to try to discover what this theme is - 'Home Sweet Home' has been suggested; 'Auld Lang Syne' has, also. Dora Powell's husband (she's Dorabella in the variations) published an essay 'proving' that it was Auld Lang Syne, and Elgar fell out with them over it. Later, Dora claimed that it was indeed correct, but the enigmas continue and no one solution seems to be conclusive.

Personally, I don't care about any of this enigma stuff, except as an example of one of Elgar's japes. I think the music is magnificent; the musical depiction of friends is heartwarming; and if you read Dora Powell's book 'Memories of a Variation', it makes the music come alive even more vividly.


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## World Violist

Elgarian said:


> There has been an enormous amount of speculation about it over the years. Elgar seemed to imply that there was a theme never actually stated in the music itself, but which 'goes with' the main theme. I forget exactly how he described it. There have been ingenious attempts to try to discover what this theme is - 'Home Sweet Home' has been suggested; 'Auld Lang Syne' has, also. Dora Powell's husband (she's Dorabella in the variations) published an essay 'proving' that it was Auld Lang Syne, and Elgar fell out with them over it. Later, Dora claimed that it was indeed correct, but the enigmas continue and no one solution seems to be conclusive.
> 
> Personally, I don't care about any of this enigma stuff, except as an example of one of Elgar's japes. I think the music is magnificent; the musical depiction of friends is heartwarming; and if you read Dora Powell's book 'Memories of a Variation', it makes the music come alive even more vividly.


Here's what Elgar had to say about the unstated theme: "The enigma I will not explain - its 'dark saying' must be left unguessed, and I warn you that the apparent connection between the Variations and the Theme is often of the slightest texture; further, through and over the whole set another and larger theme 'goes', but is not played.... So the principal Theme never appears, even as in some late dramas ... the chief character is never on stage."

I agree with you about all this enigma stuff; the music scales the heights of expression. I hold it to be one of the outright masterpieces of the whole genre. The variations are some of the most truly varied that I have heard (Bach's _Goldberg_ and Rachmaninoff's _Paganini_ variations aren't quite so varied in color and character!). It's really a complete work in the fullest sense.


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## Elgarian

World Violist said:


> Here's what Elgar had to say about the unstated theme: "The enigma I will not explain - its 'dark saying' must be left unguessed, and I warn you that the apparent connection between the Variations and the Theme is often of the slightest texture; further, through and over the whole set another and larger theme 'goes', but is not played.... So the principal Theme never appears, even as in some late dramas ... the chief character is never on stage."


Thanks WV - yes, that's the one I was trying to recall. Some people have interpreted this to mean that the 'theme' is not a musical one at all, but something more abstract, like 'friendship'. For me, though, that doesn't quite seem to fit what Elgar is saying.



> I agree with you about all this enigma stuff; the music scales the heights of expression. I hold it to be one of the outright masterpieces of the whole genre.


Leaving Elgar's own recording aside - have you been able to settle on any one definitive recorded performance of it? I never have - the best one seems nearly always to be the one I'm listening to right now.


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## Lang

Elgarian said:


> There has been an enormous amount of speculation about it over the years. Elgar seemed to imply that there was a theme never actually stated in the music itself, but which 'goes with' the main theme. I forget exactly how he described it. There have been ingenious attempts to try to discover what this theme is - 'Home Sweet Home' has been suggested; 'Auld Lang Syne' has, also. Dora Powell's husband (she's Dorabella in the variations) published an essay 'proving' that it was Auld Lang Syne, and Elgar fell out with them over it. Later, Dora claimed that it was indeed correct, but the enigmas continue and no one solution seems to be conclusive.


From memory I think the words were something like "Through and over the whole set another theme 'goes' but is not played."

Very early in the proceedings someone speculated that the theme was 'friendship', and as banal as that seems in light of subsequent speculation, it seems to me to be the most likely solution.

PS: Never respond to a posting without reading subsequent ones.


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## Elgarian

Lang said:


> PS: Never respond to a posting without reading subsequent ones.


Well, what I say is: if a thing's worth saying once, then it's worth saying twice.


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## PostMinimalist

I seem to remember hearing a great set of variations on a theme by Beethoven for orchestra and left hand only piano. I can't think of the composer off hand but these are really lovely pieces.
FC


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## PostMinimalist

Franz Schmidt! That's the guy. I heard it on the radio and couldn't think who the composer might be. I thought it might be Rachmaninov!
FC


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## handlebar

The Rach Variations on Paganini and Corelli.

Jim


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## Herzeleide

post-minimalist said:


> Franz Schmidt! That's the guy. I heard it on the radio and couldn't think who the composer might be. I thought it might be Rachmaninov!
> FC


Franz Schmidt is a wonderful composer. I heartily recommend his symphonies.


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## Rondo

Don't know if someone has mentioned it yet, but what about Britten's _Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra_ (Variations and Fugue on a Theme of Purcell)? I don't consider it a 'best' but it certainly is enjoyable.


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## World Violist

Elgarian said:


> Leaving Elgar's own recording aside - have you been able to settle on any one definitive recorded performance of it? I never have - the best one seems nearly always to be the one I'm listening to right now.


Well, considering I have only Elgar's and Boult's from 1970, I can't really answer this at the moment. I'm thinking of getting the recordings by Barbirolli, Bernstein, Colin Davis, etc. etc. etc... but I don't know them. Maybe why I'm so slow on the uptake of various recordings is because it's such a pleasant piece to begin with that it's hard to find a bad recording of on that sole basis... or maybe not. I don't know.


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## Weston

Elgarian said:


> Personally, I don't care about any of this enigma stuff, except as an example of one of Elgar's japes. I think the music is magnificent; the musical depiction of friends is heartwarming; and if you read Dora Powell's book 'Memories of a Variation', it makes the music come alive even more vividly.


I will certainly search for this book. Thanks. I'm finding biographies and memoirs of the composers and their circles more interesting than ficiton.

Would have listened to Enigma tonight, but someone is felling a tree next door. Very noisy.


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## Sid James

post-minimalist said:


> THere is also a lovely set of Orchestral variations by Kodaly called 'The Peacock'. Absolutely delightful orchestration.
> FC


An interesting fact is that *Kodaly*'s _Peacock Variations _were banned by the right wing Horthy regime in Hungary during the 1930's because the folk song text which it was based on alluded to the bird symbolising freedom for poor peasants. They thought it might incite a revolt of the same kind which happened there in around 1919 (the short-lived _Republic of Councils _led by Bela Kun, which was crushed by Admiral Horthy). Many intellectuals, like Kodaly & Bartok, sympathised with that uprising. So no wonder they were put under a spotlight, politically speaking.

Another excellent set of variations, which has not as yet been mentioned, are the _Variations on a Rococo Theme_ for cello and orchestra, by *Tchaikovsky*.


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## JTech82

Andre said:


> An interesting fact is that *Kodaly*'s _Peacock Variations _were banned by the right wing Horthy regime in Hungary during the 1930's because the folk song text which it was based on alluded to the bird symbolising freedom for poor peasants. They thought it might incite a revolt of the same kind which happened there in around 1919 (the short-lived _Republic of Councils _led by Bela Kun, which was crushed by Admiral Horthy). Many intellectuals, like Kodaly & Bartok, sympathised with that uprising. So no wonder they were put under a spotlight, politically speaking.
> 
> Another excellent set of variations, which has not as yet been mentioned, are the _Variations on a Rococo Theme_ for cello and orchestra, by *Tchaikovsky*.


I forgot about Kodaly's Variations. That's a great piece. I need to get some more Kodaly in my collection. I only have a 2-CD set on Decca with Antal Dorati.


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## Elgarian

Weston said:


> I will certainly search for this book. Thanks. I'm finding biographies and memoirs of the composers and their circles more interesting than ficiton.
> 
> Would have listened to Enigma tonight, but someone is felling a tree next door. Very noisy.


The later editions of Dora's book are the ones to get; the first edition came out while Elgar was still alive, but she made a lot of revisions and additions after Elgar died, including a chapter devoted entirely to the _Enigma Variations_.

There's another book by Rosa Burley - the headmistress of the girls' school where Elgar once gave violin lessons. She knew him well and used often to go cycling with him. It was surprising to some that she wasn't included among the variations, to which she replied: 'Variations? I was the _theme_!' Her book is called _Edward Elgar: The Record of a Friendship_. Fascinating stuff, though not so endearing as Dorabella's book, which charmed me completely.


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## Lisztfreak

Weston said:


> Would have listened to Enigma tonight, but someone is felling a tree next door. Very noisy.


What, at night-time? I'd sue them.


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## Weston

Elgarian said:


> The later editions of Dora's book are the ones to get; the first edition came out while Elgar was still alive, but she made a lot of revisions and additions after Elgar died, including a chapter devoted entirely to the _Enigma Variations_.


It's going to take a little time to track down, but I can at least preview it -

http://books.google.com/books?id=dvcNAAAAQAAJ

That edition printed in 1979 gives me hope that I can indeed find a copy.

Thank you for the recommendations.


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## Sid James

I just bought a Cd which included *Lutoslawski's* _Symphonic Variations_, an early work. There are shades of atonalism, but it's not dry or academic. Quite a good piece, and it only lasts about 10 minutes. His output seems to be very diverse, as he had a fairly long life. Some of it is folksy, modern & what you might call post-modern. One of the most interesting composers of the C20th, I think.


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## bassClef

Heard Dvorak's Symphonic Variations this morning for the first time in years and I'd forgotten how good it was. I think this is my favourite so far - but I've yet to hear quite a few of those already mentioned. Much to discover yet!


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## blays

> Brahms' Variations on Haydn


Oh, that's quite a treat to listen to. I find it an extremely soothing piece.

As for my favorite, I'd say Liszt's (et al) _Hexameron_. I like the piano solo best, but I've seen the arrangement for two pianos at a concert and it was great as well. I especially like Czerny's variation (5th one, I believe).

Another favorite is from Alkan's _Douze études dans tous les tons mineurs_, the _No. 12 Le festin d'Esope_


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## bassClef

Listening to Kodaly's Peacock variations for the first time now - like it.


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## woodwind_fan

Am I allowed Hindemith's 'Symphonic Metamorphosis on Themes of Carl Maria von Weber'? It's awesome (except a reasonably dull 3rd movement, though more than made up for by the other movements!)

I also like the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini... so clever!


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