# Favorite Tannhäuser



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Who is your favorite singer for the role of Tannhäuser?

This list seems small for some reason. I feel like I must be forgetting someone obvious.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

I am sure it's in the Top Opera list so it will come up one day.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Not that it matters, but you’re missing Gunther Treptow and Robert Dean Smith.

James King made a terrific recording of the Rome Narration, but I don’t believe that he sang the role onstage.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't know the individual performances well enough but I'm guessing Melchior.


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## zxxyxxz (Apr 14, 2020)

I can help with whether your list is forgetting anyone...

Windgassen gets my vote.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

This:


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> This:


Hard to imagine Tannhauser's weariness being better evoked in purely vocal terms. The Pope's heartless imprecation and Tannhauser's stunned response gave me goosebumps.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

*Hans Hopf,* ohne Frage! And Franz's Tannhäuser, maybe the best overall in music history.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

A more thorough comparison than what I've done is warranted, but I'd say probably Lauritz Melchior. Second probably Wolfgang Windgassen. I would like to hear the obscure recordings with Jess Thomas though.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

adriesba said:


> A more thorough comparison than what I've done is warranted, but I'd say probably Lauritz Melchior. Second probably Wolfgang Windgassen. I would like to hear the obscure recordings with* Jess Thomas* though.


He is really obscure! :lol:

(Windgassen is Wagner's re carnation. Overall speaking from the best for every Wagnerian role). (I can't remember this moment the LM... Strange but true).


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Dimace said:


> He is really obscure! :lol:
> 
> (Windgassen is Wagner's re carnation. Overall speaking from the best for every Wagnerian role). (I can't remember this moment the LM... Strange but true).


It's kind of odd how Jess Thomas's Lohengrin and Parsifal are very famous, but his other roles seem hardly known. I imagine he could be a really good Tannhäuser, but I'd have to hear it.

Yes, Windgassen and Melchior really set the standards for Wagner's tenor roles. Not many have sung as many as well as they did.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Dimace said:


> He is really obscure! :lol:
> 
> (Windgassen is Wagner's re carnation. Overall speaking from the best for every Wagnerian role). (I can't remember this moment the LM... Strange but true).


Thomas sang four performances of Tannhäuser at Bayreuth in 1966 and five performances in 1967.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Did Siegfried Jerusalem ever sing Tannhäuser?


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> Did Siegfried Jerusalem ever sing Tannhäuser?


I don't think so. The only _Tannhäuser_ which I can find with Jerusalem is Haitnik but he's Walther and König is Tannhäuser.


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

I vote for Hans Kopf. Franz Konwitschny's Tannhäuser gets off the shelf way more often than the other ones.

Regards,

Vincula


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> I don't think so. The only _Tannhäuser_ which I can find with Jerusalem is Haitnik but he's Walther and König is Tannhäuser.


I don't think so either. That seems odd.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

vincula said:


> I vote for Hans Kopf. Franz Konwitschny's Tannhäuser gets off the shelf way more often than the other ones.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vincula


A pity it uses the Dresden version. Original Venus is a pretty drab Hausfrau compared with her Parisian post-_Tristan_ replacement.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> A pity it uses the Dresden version. Original Venus is a pretty drab Hausfrau compared with her Parisian post-_Tristan_ replacement.


Indeed the Paris Venus is very beautiful sounding. I was quite surprised the first time I heard the difference. In Dresden, Venus doesn't have much time to shine outside of "Geliebter, komm! Sieh dort die Grotte" whereas in Paris, she really sounds like the goddess of love the whole time she is present. The Dresden Venus needs a mesmerizing singer to do it justice.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

adriesba said:


> Indeed the Paris Venus is very beautiful sounding. I was quite surprised the first time I heard the difference. In Dresden, Venus doesn't have much time to shine outside of "Geliebter, komm! Sieh dort die Grotte" whereas in Paris, she really sounds like the goddess of love the whole time she is present. The Dresden Venus needs a mesmerizing singer to do it justice.


Christa Ludwig is utterly seductive on the Solti _Tannhauser._ She's also an irresistible (except to innocent fools) Kundry on the Solti _Parsifal._ To me she's the highlight of both recordings. She's also a highlight, as Ortrud, on the Kempe _Lohengrin,_ where she makes evil quite seductive. What a great singer and artist!


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> Christa Ludwig is utterly seductive on the Solti _Tannhauser. She's also an irresistible (except to innocent fools) Kundry on the Solti Parsifal. To me she's the highlight of both recordings. She's also a highlight, as Ortrud, on the Kempe Lohengrin, where she makes evil quite seductive. What a great singer and artist!_


Yes! From hearing her recording of Venus, I can't imagine anyone else singing the role so well. She is indeed enchanting! I think Astrid Varnay might be a more evil sounding Ortrud, but Ludwig sounds much more effortless in the role. Her last lines in _Lohengrin _are so chilling! She's also Brangäne in Böhm's and Karajan's _Tristan und Isolde _and Fricka and Waltraute in Solti's _Ring_. She's basically been omnipresent in Wagner recordings and sings her roles well. Now she's over 90, and last I knew, she was still doing masterclasses. Indeed, a very impressive artist!


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Someone put this recording with Jess Thomas as Tannhäuser on YouTube.






Jess Thomas is not ideal for this role, at least to my ears.

So I've made up my mind: Melchior is my favorite.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

^^^ Thanks for the link!

It’s a great pity Vickers refused to sing Tannhäuser because he saw it as an assault on Christianity (Wagner might have criticised the church structure of his time but I don’t think the opera is actually criticising Christianity). I think he could have been great in that role with his distinctive and heroic timbre.

Suthaus was IMO a great Tannhäuser in 1949 Ludwig recording - in good voice and really on fire. 

Nevertheless, Melchior is unbeatable in my opinion - truly stunning voice and great charisma.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Please, don't start that Vickers-Tannhauser discussion again. If you don't want the thread ruined like the Furtwängler one and countless ones.

I voted for Peter Seiffert. Tireless in his Barenboim recording. The nicest to me. Despite the nuances a Windgassen or Hopf provides.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

annaw said:


> ^^^ Thanks for the link!
> 
> It's a great pity Vickers refused to sing Tannhäuser because he saw it as an assault on Christianity (Wagner might have criticised the church structure of his time but I don't think the opera is actually criticising Christianity). I think he could have been great in that role with his distinctive and heroic timbre.
> 
> ...


Yes! Vickers might have been my favorite if he had sung it. I don't understand why he found a problem with it. From a Christianity standpoint, it's quite agreeable and uplifting in my opinion.

If you are curious, I know of three other recordings with Jess Thomas.

One conducted by Suitner: 
https://www.amazon.com/Tannhauser-Leonie-Rysanek/dp/B0018F6TRO

And two conducted by Klobucar (available on Opera Depot): 
https://operadepot.com/products/wagner-tannhauser-silja-thomas-lindholm-prey-klobucar

https://operadepot.com/products/wag...hillebrecht-dvorakova-brendel-mazura-klobucar

That Melles one on YouTube does not seem to be available on streaming or for download, and the CD is expensive.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Granate said:


> Please, don't start that Vickers-Tannhauser discussion again. If you don't want the thread ruined like the Furtwängler one and countless ones.
> 
> I voted for Peter Seiffert. Tireless in his Barenboim recording. The nicest to me. Despite the nuances a Windgassen or Hopf provides.


I wasn't planning that at all! I didn't know Vickers/Tannhäuser was a controversial topic. It was intended as a remark to explain my frustration not to initiate further discussion or argument (currently there seems to be more than enough things to argue about on TC...).

I also really liked Seiffert in Barenboim's recording!


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I didn't think that would be such a sensitive topic! 

But I haven't been on this forum as long to know.

What I could do is give you my opinion on the singers in the poll and we can argue about the singers together. We can have a Domingo in Wagner operas argument. :lol:


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Granate said:


> I voted for Peter Seiffert. Tireless in his Barenboim recording. The nicest to me. Despite the nuances a Windgassen or Hopf provides.


Windgassen is good. Not sure about Seiffert, need to hear more, but I don't think the Barenboim recording is on streaming for me. Hans Hopf though... his voice gives me a headache.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

adriesba said:


> If you are curious, I know of three other recordings with Jess Thomas.
> 
> One conducted by Suitner:
> https://www.amazon.com/Tannhauser-Leonie-Rysanek/dp/B0018F6TRO
> ...


Thanks again! I find it fascinating to listen to singers tackle all those different Wagnerian roles, even if they don't always do it overly well. It helps to give me a better idea of the style and voice of the singer.

Tannhäuser is certainly an interesting role as it's both vocally and interpretation-wise very difficult to get right because the character undergoes multiple emotional and intellectual transformations throughout the opera. I think Melchior's singing depicts Tannhäuser's character and its progression amazingly well, so does Windgassen's.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

annaw said:


> It's a great pity Vickers refused to sing Tannhäuser because he saw it as an assault on Christianity (Wagner might have criticised the church structure of his time but I don't think the opera is actually criticising Christianity). I think he could have been great in that role with his distinctive and heroic timbre.


With his power, stamina, and ability to evoke in vocal terms the suffering outsider (think Peter Grimes and Siegmund), Vickers would have been an ideal Tannhauser, maybe the best since Melchior. He was an artist of great depth and integrity, but a bit of an odd duck ideologically. I could never figure out his objection to the role, since the opera isn't a rejection of Christianity; insofar as it references religion, it carries the typical Wagnerian message about the soul-destroying oppressiveness and hypocrisy of the institutions of society, including the church, but it offers no judgment on Christianity itself.

I'm surprised that a man of Vickers' intelligence failed to see that _Parsifal,_ which he did perform, carries much the same message. I guess Parsifal's explicit affirmation of morality made the difference; Tannhauser is torn by conflicting impulses to the end, and we have only the leafing out of the Pope's staff (and some nice music) to suggest that he attains some peace in death. Perhaps, too, Vickers was uncomfortable with the idea that it seems to be the love of Elisabeth rather than belief in Christ that saves Tannhauser's soul. Wagner's "redemption by love" idea is a bit, shall we say, heterodox.


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