# Death AND The Maiden



## ChamberNut

Death to the Maiden,

Death of the Maiden,

Death for the Maiden,

ah....yes! Death And The Maiden! I finally got it right!  I've requested to hear this wonderful work or talked about this work using the above, because sometimes I'm bad at remembering names of people and things 

One thing I do know is this Schubert masterpiece is one of the most powerful and remarkable works of the entire chamber music repertoire!

I own a recording of the Death and The Maiden quartet performed by Melos Quartet. And, I've just listened to the 1st and 2nd mvt performed by the Lindsay Quartet.

My question is: Which string quartet ensemble performed the definitive Death And the Maiden? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

That 2nd mvt. Andante con moto is just so impossibly *amazing*!


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## Guest

Death and the Maiden String Quartet No 14 is among the very best of Schubert's works. Among his chamber works, it's bettered only by the String Quintet. Another wonderful String Quartet is No 13, Rosamunde. So too is No 15. The best version of SQ 14 that I have is by Henshel Quartet, but I wouldn't like to say it is the definitive best. If you like these works, you should also try the Fantaisie for Violin and Piano duet D 934 as it's not that well known but is very nice. All in all, I prefer Schubert to Beethoven for chamber music. It was once the other way round.


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## ChamberNut

Mango said:


> *Among his chamber works, it's bettered only by the String Quintet. *


This is a work that I must push up on my wish list. I've only heard small portions of it, and it was amazing. Is this a work written for 2 violins, 1 viola and 2 cellos? Rather than the standard 2violin, 2viola, 1 cello string quintet combo?


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## Leporello87

> Is this a work written for 2 violins, 1 viola and 2 cellos? Rather than the standard 2violin, 2viola, 1 cello string quintet combo?


Yes, that's right. It's in C Major, numbered D. 956. What a lovely piece.


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## Guest

ChamberNut said:


> This is a work that I must push up on my wish list. I've only heard small portions of it, and it was amazing. Is this a work written for 2 violins, 1 viola and 2 cellos? Rather than the standard 2violin, 2viola, 1 cello string quintet combo?


This work, D 956, is truly superb. It's one of the best chamber pieces ever written. I prefer it to anything written by Beethoven. How come you aren't too familiar? It's a standard, a real classic. The second movement in particular is fantastic. In the 20 months after Beethoven's death, Schubert went on a composing frenzy partly because he knew that his days were numbered (he died Nov 1828) and partly out of reverence to Beethoven. Just about everything Schubert wrote in this period is a stunner. D 956 was among the very last pieces composed.


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## Guest

I always like to give a plug for the Brodsky on this one. Not only because it's so good (I would say that it's "definitive") but because it's coupled with Crumb's Dark Angels string quartet (which quotes the Death and the Maiden theme).


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## ChamberNut

Mango said:


> This work, D 956, is truly superb. It's one of the best chamber pieces ever written. I prefer it to anything written by Beethoven. *How come you aren't too familiar? * It's a standard, a real classic.


Well, unfortunately there are alot of standard classics that I have yet to "discover". I'm so enthralled and immersed with the stuff I have already, that I have so much yet to find out about.....and purchase.  Plus, in the chamber music repertoire, I've been focused more towards piano trios and string quartets first.


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## Guest

ChamberNut said:


> Well, unfortunately there are alot of standard classics that I have yet to "discover". I'm so enthralled and immersed with the stuff I have already, that I have so much yet to find out about.....and purchase.  Plus, in the chamber music repertoire, I've been focused more towards piano trios and string quartets first.


Ok, I see now. You are in discovery mode. There is a lot of chamber material outside trio and quartet that's just as good if not better. Apart from Schubert's String Quintet D 956, as you will know there are several Mozart quintets. These are mostly superb. In fact, Mozart quintets are generally reckoned to be better than his quartets. Incidentaly, for the Mozart quintets, the set by the Juilliard String Quartet is excellent.

Schumann and Brahms piano quintets are really wonderful. Of all piano quintets, I think the one by Brahms takes some beating. It's one of my favourite pieces.

There are very many duets involving piano and violin or cello. I mentioned Schubert's D 934 as being especially nice.

Also, Schubert's and Mendelssohn's Octets are very good.

Some of Brahms sextets are good (no. 1, Op 18 especially)

Borodin, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak wrote some good chamber music.

BTW, if anyone tells you that Bartok's String Quartets (6 of them) are the best since Beethoven, don't believe them. From what I gather of your chamber music tastes, I reckon you'd be rather disappointed (if not a little surprised) with Bartok's. They are reckoned to be superb but I can't get my mind round them. They do not have sufficient melody for my tastes, and I find some of them to be very much an acquired taste. Shostakovich's string quarters are generally more accessible, and a better start on the 20th Century material than Bartok, but watch out as not all of them are good.


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## ChamberNut

Mango said:


> Ok, I see now. You are in discovery mode. There is a lot of chamber material outside trio and quartet that's just as good if not better. Apart from Schubert's String Quintet D 956, as you will know there are several Mozart quintets. These are mostly superb. In fact, Mozart quintets are generally reckoned to be better than his quartets. Incidentaly, for the Mozart quintets, the set by the Juilliard String Quartet is excellent.
> 
> Schumann and Brahms piano quintets are really wonderful. Of all piano quintets, I think the one by Brahms takes some beating. It's one of my favourite pieces.
> 
> There are very many duets involving piano and violin or cello. I mentioned Schubert's D 934.
> 
> Also, Schubert's and Mendelssohn's Octets are very good.
> 
> Some of Brahms sextets are good.
> 
> Dvorak wrote some good chamber music.
> 
> BTW, if anyone tells you that Bartok's String Quartets (6 of them) are the best since Beethoven, don't believe them. From what I gather of your chamber music tastes, I reckon you'd be rather disappointed (if not a little surprised) with Bartok's. They are reckoned to be superb but I can't get my mind round them. They do not ahve sufficient melody for my tastes. Shostakovich's string quarters are generally more accessible, and a better start on the 20th Century material than Bartok, but watch out as not all of them are good.


Well, you'll be happy to know Mango that I have started branching out in the other repertoires such as quintets and sextets, etc.

I have Brahms String Quintets and Sextets, and his fabulous Piano Quintet, which I adore. Also have his Clarinet Quintet, another superb work.

And I also have the Schumann Piano Quintet and Piano Quartet. I must say Schumann's Piano Quintet is one of my favorite chamber works overall.

And also have Mendelssohn's Octet. Fantastic work, for a 16 year old composer. 

I actually am intrigued by Bartok's quartets, as well as Shostakovich.

I just bought a house this week, so my budget over the next while will require some choices to make for additions to my classical collection.  My wish list is extensive!!


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## opus67

I love Dvorak's quintet (Opus 80). As for duets, I recently heard Chopin's <something> Brillante(?) for piano and cello. It was pretty nice.


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## opus67

ChamberNut said:


> I just bought a house this week, so my budget over the next while will require some choices to make for additions to my classical collection.  My wish list is extensive!!


First choice: Stop buying at B&N and move to amazon. Prices are (almost) always less.

Congrats on the new house, BTW!


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## Leporello87

The excellent Mozart string quintets have already been mentioned (one of them, KV 406 is an arrangement of the wind serenade KV 388, but the other five are all original string quintets), but you also won't want to forget the splendid quintet for piano and winds (KV 452), which Mozart remarked at the time of writing that it was his most beautiful work to date. The piano quartets (KV 478 in G minor and KV 493 in E-flat) are also beautiful.

Please do not overlook the Shostakovich G minor Piano Quintet, Op. 57. I recently played the Schumann Op. 44, Dvorak Op. 81, and Shostakovich Op. 57 piano quintets with some friends, and I found the Shostakovich to be the most fun to play. There's some good stuff in this quintet, even though it doesn't get as much press time as works like the Brahms.

Congratulations on the new house, Chamber Nut! Hopefully you will fill it soon with many CD's


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## Leporello87

Oh, and if you enjoyed the Brahms Clarinet Quintet (wonderful, isn't it?), you will also want to check out the two Brahms clarinet sonatas in F minor and E-flat, Op. 120. Sometimes these works are "hijacked" by viola players


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## Guest

Leporello87 said:


> ....but you also won't want to forget the splendid quintet for piano and winds (KV 452), which Mozart remarked at the time of writing that it was his most beautiful work to date.


I couldn't agree more; it's splendid. The version I have is by Brendel, Holliger, Brunner et al on the Philips "Complete Mozart Edition - Quintets". This version is highly rated, which is why I acquired it.


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## Leporello87

Mango said:


> I couldn't agree more; it's splendid. The version I have is by Brendel, Holliger, Brunner et al on the Philips "Complete Mozart Edition - Quintets". This version is highly rated, which is why I acquired it.


Nice! That's the version I have as well


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## confuoco

ChamberNut said:


> My question is: Which string quartet ensemble performed the definitive Death And the Maiden? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> 
> That 2nd mvt. Andante con moto is just so impossibly *amazing*!


I think it is *Borodin Quartet*. In my opinion this one is better than *Emerson String Quartet*, which seems to be more "cold"...the recording by BQ is more "musical". The second movement by Emerson is fragile in interesting way, that somebody can appraise and I think they have better tempo in the 4th movement (faster), but on the whole is better Borodin Quartet.

What do you think?

Well, I am not big fan of Russian music (especially romantic), but I am passionate admirer of Russian interprets...


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## BuddhaBandit

I've always like the *Amadeus Quartet*'s recording of the DATM (it's also coupled with a superb reading of the "Trout" quintet with Emil Gilels on the keys). And yes, the Quintet in C is marvelous. And, since the discussion seems to have turned to chamber works in general, I'd like to mention the brilliance of the Bartòk quartets- truly one of the top 10 essential 20th century works.


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## fox_druid

Death and the Maiden.... I love the third, it's sooo powerful!


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## Elaryad

In my opinion and for what I've heard, I will answer the *Alban Berg Quartet*.
I love the piece and there are so wonderful interpretations.


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## Ciel_Rouge

Takacs Quartet.


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## Elaryad

I very much like the Takacs. Wonderful performance on the Verbier Festival this year.


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## SnakeGnim12333

is this a piece?


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## Rogerx

SnakeGnim12333 said:


> is this a piece?


Fair question after 12 years


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## RogerWaters

ChamberNut said:


> Death to the Maiden,
> 
> Death of the Maiden,
> 
> Death for the Maiden,
> 
> ah....yes! Death And The Maiden! I finally got it right!  I've requested to hear this wonderful work or talked about this work using the above, because sometimes I'm bad at remembering names of people and things
> 
> One thing I do know is this Schubert masterpiece is one of the most powerful and remarkable works of the entire chamber music repertoire!
> 
> I own a recording of the Death and The Maiden quartet performed by Melos Quartet. And, I've just listened to the 1st and 2nd mvt performed by the Lindsay Quartet.
> 
> My question is: Which string quartet ensemble performed the definitive Death And the Maiden? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> 
> That 2nd mvt. Andante con moto is just so impossibly *amazing*!


This is indeed an amazing achievement in classical music. Along with the String Quintet, Fantasy for Violin (both aforementioned), Piano Trios (esp no. 2), Impromptus and the amazing Fantasia for Piano duet. The pinnacle of Mount Schubert may not be as broad as other peaks... but it is high!

Renditions of SQ 14 that burn bright and achieve the great firey furnace:

1. Quartet Italiano
2. Alban Berg

Versions that are like showering in luke warm water:

1. Takacs 
2. Emerson


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## PeterF

I too am a big fan of Schubert’s Death and the Maiden, D.810.

The versions I very much enjoy are by these string quartets:
Amadeus
Belcea
Mandelring


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## Quartetfore

ChamberNut said:


> Death to the Maiden,
> 
> Death of the Maiden,
> 
> Death for the Maiden,
> 
> ah....yes! Death And The Maiden! I finally got it right!  I've requested to hear this wonderful work or talked about this work using the above, because sometimes I'm bad at remembering names of people and things
> 
> One thing I do know is this Schubert masterpiece is one of the most powerful and remarkable works of the entire chamber music repertoire!
> 
> I own a recording of the Death and The Maiden quartet performed by Melos Quartet. And, I've just listened to the 1st and 2nd mvt performed by the Lindsay Quartet.
> 
> My question is: Which string quartet ensemble performed the definitive Death And the Maiden? I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> 
> That 2nd mvt. Andante con moto is just so impossibly *amazing*!


definitive version? no such thing. I have several recordings of the work, but right now like the takacs recording.(until the next great version comes around).


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## Enthusiast

Recent ones that are really very good include the Pavel Haas Quartet and the Quatuor Van Kuijk. Check them out.


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Enthusiast said:


> Recent ones that are really very good include the Pavel Haas Quartet and the Quatuor Van Kuijk. Check them out.


Second that. Both recordings are amazing and very moving.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

RogerWaters said:


> This is indeed an amazing achievement in classical music. Along with the String Quintet, Fantasy for Violin (both aforementioned), Piano Trios (esp no. 2), Impromptus and the amazing Fantasia for Piano duet. The pinnacle of Mount Schubert may not be as broad as other peaks... but it is high!
> 
> Renditions of SQ 14 that burn bright and achieve the great firey furnace:
> 
> 1. Quartet Italiano
> 2. Alban Berg
> 
> Versions that are like showering in luke warm water:
> 
> 1. Takacs
> 2. Emerson


Why on earth like showering in luke warm water? Please explain! Those guys are some of my favorites! Anyway you can try the Cleveland Quartet


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## Josquin13

My favorite recordings of Schubert's Death and the Maiden String Quartet are by the Orlando Quartet on Philips, and the Alban Berg Quartet on EMI. Quarteto Italiano is excellent, too, & as expected, play the Andante con moto with an unusual depth and insight:

--Orlando Quartet: 




--Alban Berg Quartet, on EMI (although I wish the CD remasters had the warmth of the original LP, since the CD technology can make the performance sound a bit harsh at times; which has nothing to do with the players, as the ABQ made a beautiful sound in concert):

















(& the ABQ live: 



)

By the way, both Esoteric and Pentatone have recently remastered the Quarteto Italiano's Schubert SQs nos. 13 & 14 on Hybrid SACD, though the Esoteric recording is quite expensive (at $49). If you're interested in the Esoteric QI Schubert recording, it's probably best to buy it soon, as these recordings don't stay in print for long, and once OOP, the price usually skyrockets (into the $100s): https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/...MI0u7BpaO16gIV5rGzCh2kvgMYEAEYASAAEgISX_D_BwE. However, the Pentatone remasters are probably just as good, and the recording is much less expensive: https://www.amazon.com/Franz-Schube...aliano+pentatone&qid=1593924100&s=music&sr=1-. Frustratingly, neither recording comes with Quarteto Italiano's excellent recording of Schubert's most profound String Quartet, No. 15, D. 887 (which in Esoteric's case is kind of a rip off, considering the high price).

--Quarteto Italiano, on Philips:

















Among other excellent choices for this work, I'll also occasionally listen to the Chilingirian Quartet on Nimbus: 



, and Hagen Quartet on DG:

--Hagen Quartet:

















On period instruments, both Chiaroscuro and Terpsycordes are worth hearing for their wilder HIP interpretations:

--Chiaroscuro: 




--Terpsychordes: 




Historically, the Busch Quartet are well worthing hearing, too, from 1936: 




(I'd also like to hear the Takacs Quartet, since I'm a big fan of their Haydn Op. 76 set on Decca, but haven't yet.)


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## Merl

I think I covered 4 that I really rate in this thread, below.

What are your favorite "Death and the Maiden" string quartet recordings?


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## RogerWaters

Kjetil Heggelund said:


> Why on earth like showering in luke warm water? Please explain! Those guys are some of my favorites! Anyway you can try the Cleveland Quartet


They both play the piece too fast for me


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## Merl

I'll add the British Dorics to my list. I'm gradually falling in love with their SQ performances. Their Haydn is excellent, their Britten terrific, their Mendelssohn divine, their Korngold the best available.... This one is just as good.


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## flamencosketches

I must confess that I don't hear this as one of the "great" chamber works of all time—certainly not in the league of Beethoven's late quartets or Schubert's own String Quintet in C. Is it a matter of not having heard the right recording? Maybe, but I doubt it—I have some good ones: Italiano, Chilingirian, Pavel Haas, & Amadeus. But I'll gladly continue giving it a try every once in a while to see if my opinion changes. 

Disclaimer: Schubert is one of my very favorite composers. But my great esteem for him does not rest on the strength of this work or any of his string quartets.


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## Allegro Con Brio

^Yup. I really don’t like this quartet at all despite absolutely adoring Schubert (who, if not for the existence of Bach and Brahms, would likely be my favorite composer). I find it somewhat contrived and don’t think it belongs in the same realm as towering masterpieces of profundity like Winterreise, Die Schone Mullerin, and the late sonatas. I like the 15th and the string quintet much better, though I don’t think either of those works are as great as the Trout quintet and piano trios.


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## Simplicissimus

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^Yup. I really don't like this quartet at all despite absolutely adoring Schubert (who, if not for the existence of Bach and Brahms, would likely be my favorite composer). I find it somewhat contrived and don't think it belongs in the same realm as towering masterpieces of profundity like Winterreise, Die Schone Mullerin, and the late sonatas. I like the 15th and the string quintet much better, though I don't think either of those works are as great as the Trout quintet and piano trios.


I feel the same way. I've had the Emerson Quartet's recording in my collection for a long time, but I recently discovered Michael Gielen's orchestration of this work, and I actually enjoy it a lot more than the SQ version.


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## jegreenwood

I've always like SQ13 more - at least the first two movements. Also the Quartetsatz.

I didn't "get" No. 15 at first. For a long time my only recording was from the Juilliard SQ, and it just seemed endless. A few years back I picked up the Quartetto Italiano recording and discovered the beauty of the work.

I love the Trout, the octet and the piano trios, but my highest esteem is reserved for the string quintet - maybe my single favorite piece of music.


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## Enthusiast

Allegro Con Brio said:


> ^Yup. I really don't like this quartet at all despite absolutely adoring Schubert (who, if not for the existence of Bach and Brahms, would likely be my favorite composer). I find it somewhat contrived and don't think it belongs in the same realm as towering masterpieces of profundity like Winterreise, Die Schone Mullerin, and the late sonatas. I like the 15th and the string quintet much better, though I don't think either of those works are as great as the Trout quintet and piano trios.


I love it and feel those who find it disappointing may be looking for the wrong things in it. They seem to want something more profound?


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## Allegro Con Brio

Enthusiast said:


> I love it and feel those who find it disappointing may be looking for the wrong things in it. They seem to want something more profound?


Do you see it as a heartwrenching investigation of the psychology of death or just a fun piece? I've always got the impression that I should be hearing it as the former and come out disappointed because it seems kind of cheesy that way.


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## Enthusiast

^ I wouldn't exactly say a fun piece but I don't think Schubert was aiming at a deep investigation of death, either. This is Schubert the extrovert, the entertainer even: I hear him playing to the gallery.


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## flamencosketches

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I wouldn't exactly say a fun piece but I don't think Schubert was aiming at a deep investigation of death, either. This is Schubert the extrovert, the entertainer even: I hear him playing to the gallery.


Yeah that sounds right. It's a very dramatic piece. Kind of along the lines of the Erlkönig but in chamber form. Maybe we are expecting too much from it. I'm listening now to the Pavel Haas recording and rather enjoying it. That cellist tears it up. This is a recording where the performers are really digging into their strings which I think is helpful.


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## flamencosketches

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Do you see it as a heartwrenching investigation of the psychology of death or just a fun piece? I've always got the impression that I should be hearing it as the former and come out disappointed because it seems kind of cheesy that way.


I've been thinking about it all day. Yeah, it's a loaded nickname; pretend it doesn't exist and try again-remember, Schubert himself never called it that. It's not a bad piece by any means; I really enjoyed it today. And try the Pavel Haas Quartet recording!


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## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> I've been thinking about it all day. Yeah, it's a loaded nickname; pretend it doesn't exist and try again-remember, Schubert himself never called it that. It's not a bad piece by any means; I really enjoyed it today. And try the Pavel Haas Quartet recording!


Supraphon usually doesn't make it on streaming services, but I'll try and search it out. Maybe I just need to give the classic Busch the attention it deserves, their interpretations usually strike a chord with me.


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## NeilP

Quartetto Italiano for me


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## CnC Bartok

NeilP said:


> Quartetto Italiano for me


Me too......

And as for the Quartet's " Nickname", I don't suppose Schubert gave it, and it's so-called because of the second movement variations on the song of the same name.

Then again, choosing such a depressing song as the source of the theme, as well as the atmosphere of the whole piece.....yeah, it's about Death, obsessively so.


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## Eclectic Al

Mango said:


> This work, D 956, is truly superb. It's one of the best chamber pieces ever written. I prefer it to anything written by Beethoven. How come you aren't too familiar? It's a standard, a real classic. The second movement in particular is fantastic. In the 20 months after Beethoven's death, Schubert went on a composing frenzy partly because he knew that his days were numbered (he died Nov 1828) and partly out of reverence to Beethoven. Just about everything Schubert wrote in this period is a stunner. D 956 was among the very last pieces composed.


I sometimes find myself thinking: "Is Schubert over-rated?". Then I think of the last few string quartets, and the string quintet, and remember. 
If a composer had only written one of those, they would still be a great. Absolute masterpieces.


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## Oldhoosierdude

For Death of/and/on/in the Maiden I happen to like this recording. I do have two others but this is the one for me. From the 70's and I believe long out of print after it's LP release. It was available free and legal as a download for a while from the CQ historical website, but no longer I'm afraid. Great playing and sound.


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## DavidA

I have Quartetto Italiano which is superb


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