# Ludovico Einaudi



## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

Hey everyone, 

As of about fifteen minutes ago, I became a member of this forum :clap:! 

Anyway, I'm just writing to ask - why is Einaudi so hated? Is there something wrong with his style of music? 

I'm only 19, so maybe there's a youthful obnoxiousness i'm unaware of having? Lol 

Thanks, everyone


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2014)

About 2 minutes ago I just surfed YouTube for Ludovico Einaudi to see what gives. I'll pass, thanks.


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## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

TalkingHead said:


> About 2 minutes ago I just surfed YouTube for Ludovico Einaudi to see what gives. I'll pass, thanks.


May I ask why? I'm sort of just getting into music of this nature


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## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

Oh, and just to add - I know he's not a classical pianist, but that's why I'm here asking, to get opinions from those who know exponentially more about classical music than I  Is his negative stigma simply due to his music not deriving from classical music? I've read that he's considered a "pop" musician, however, when I think of pop music it's more of the new-age "Nicki Minaj" type... Again, my youthful naivety is probably overpowering my understanding ..


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2014)

lvella said:


> May I ask why? I'm sort of just getting into music of this nature


Hello Ivella, no offense to you, but I find the short extracts I heard to be rather too soothing - rather like the sort of background muzak that one might hear having one of those therapeutic / ayurveda-type massages on offer from spa hotels (or "wellness" hotels, I believe the term is).


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

It's not so much the guy himself but rather film music in general, that is widely considered bland. 
I only listened to one of his pieces for about a minute but it had all the hallmarks of film music. That is, ostinati with variations. Ostinati is that repetitive phrasing you hear that gives the music its rhythmic pulse. Nearly always used to add drama/tension. It's found in classical works as well but too much film music doesn't venture beyond that. If you're lucky, you may get a theme to break it up. It sounds tedious. The problem is that film music has to play bridesmaid to the film itself. It is written to be background music and it's just not creative enough to stand out on it's own. Some opera composers use ostinati as well and it's not particularly memorable either - the function is to simply set a mood for the action on stage.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2014)

Yes, that's a better term, Couac Addict : "mood music".


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Using this for a reason completely opposite to the one intended by the poster:
http://musescore.com/pianoviolinlover/einaudi-medley

It's striking that (poor transitions aside) _everything sounds near-identical_.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

The only "hate" I've ever seen was on other sites where people would call him a classical composer and ask for classical works like his, which many get irritated over.

His music's not bad, it's just not very remarkable in comparison. Einaudi makes me think of a less inspired Philip Glass (If you haven't heard of him, check out his Metamorphosis and the Opening of Glassworks, both for piano)


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2014)

If you enjoy his music you should listen to it. Reputation shmeputation. There's nothing wrong with soothing or therapeutic music if that's what you're in the mood for.

You might check out Eric Satie next.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Thanks for posting, Ivella.

I must admit that I don't know a lot about Einaudi or his music, but I did listen to a couple of samples from YouTube:
















I was immediately reminded of the artists who regularly recorded for the Windham Hill label:






And this from pianist George Winston, which I present as an URL, since this Forum allows for only five video presentations per post:






If you listen to the above two tracks, you might notice some similarity to Einaudi's "sound", which is sort of what we sometimes call "New Age" music. Or "drone music" due to the minimalistic, repetitive, ostinato-like drone that grounds the music. Too, Einaudi's harmonies seem rather traditional. The music reminded me of the stuff my wife's masseuse plays when she gives a massage. Or music for Yoga class. Gentle, relaxing ... not very confrontational.

I was surprised to learn that Einaudi studied composition with Luciano Berio. I enjoy Berio on occasion, and though I don't think a student should necessarily duplicate the kind of work his teacher promotes, I feel that Einaudi didn't need Berio's lessons to achieve what I heard in the above three video tracks. Berio is rather confrontational, and my preference runs towards him rather than towards the student. I like music that stabs at you and engages all sorts of emotional responses. I don't listen much to Windham Hill music unless I want to fall asleep. And for my money, music should not put one to sleep. It should awaken one -- to new possibilities, to emotional responses, to life at its most aware.

Here's a sample of Berio:






So ... I don't know who might "hate" Einaudi or his music. That's a pretty severe reaction to a musician, really. But some of us may prefer other approaches to his music. To each his own.

If you happen to enjoy Einaudi's music, listen to it often. I recommend to you the Windham Hill artists. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. (I do, on occasion, especially the guitar player Michael Hedges. I don't consider him a strong contender for "classical music" immortality, but he plays a mean guitar. So enjoy!)

Again, thanks for posting, and welcome to the Forum.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I won't prevaricate around the bush: I find his music to be schlock, dreck, and insipid. Welcome to the forum!


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## stevens (Jun 23, 2014)

Hello Ivella!

I dont like Einaudio´s music, I find it too repetitive (i know, repetition is the point in his music) one-dimensional and shallow, but some of my piano pupils love this music. -So, I often play it for them. 
I think all this hate on internet forums is really really disgusting. Once a time I thought that classical music forum wasnt infected of this virus, but I had wrong. One cant say the name Yuja Wang, Lang Lang, Kathia Buniashtivili, whithout all hate and sexism is crawling up and running. I use to leave and never return to forums where haters roles. THIS forum is the least infected. I havent seen much of that here. (so far)


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## csacks (Dec 5, 2013)

Hi Ivella and Welcome. From the point of view of an illiterate in music, I just have to say that to enjoy music all you need is taste. But your own taste, not what most people like or dislike. If you enjoy his music, go ahead and listen him. There are days to listen Beethoven or Wagner, making windows to shiver, and some others to have the music in the background enjoying the rain. In between them , you will find a moment for Einaudi. Hope not very often!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

LOL. My first reaction was "Why is this in the classical music category." I commend you for not insisting that Einaudi's is "classical music."

You are going to like what you like, and some of that may or may not change, and then be added to with different styles of music.

The simple prettiness of Einaudi's music appeals to many, the pieces are short, perhaps no longer or just a bit than many a pop song, and perhaps they are -- and their listeners are-- more about variable mood, which is very much a part of those years for teens of any gender. (They inhabit a sort of nether world of a not quite specific genre, somewhere between flat-out pop music, new-age, lite quasi-classical.)

But for sincerity (and quality) in this style of music, I would rather direct you to Nils Frahm, or other alternative 'pop' composers.
Nils Frahm ~ Tristana









Ralf Hindenbeutel ~ Be Here





Dustin O'Halloran ~ We Move Lightly





And I'm sure you're already aware of Ólafur Arnalds' and Peter Broderick's music.

There are numbers of modern and contemporary classical pieces I think you might also enjoy:
Arthur Honegger ~ Pastorale d'été





Gerald Finzi's lovely _Eclogue,_ for piano and strings





Maurice Ravel ~ Piano Concerto in G, II; Adagio Assai





Takashi Yoshimatsu:
_'Memo Flora' Piano Concerto_




_Symphony No. 5, 3rd movement_




_Petals
_




Here is a wonderful and 'accessible' set of folk song arrangements by Einaudi's teacher, 
Luciano Berio ~ Folk Songs 





for piano solo:
John Adams ~ China gates (for piano solo)




David Lang ~ Wed




John Cage:
In a Landscape




Dream





For something more eccentric, 'Alternative, i.e. outside of one category or another,' and music I think both interesting and beautiful, I recommend exploring the album _Juke Box_ by Einaudi's fellow countryman, Franco Battiato
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Franco+Battiato+Juke+Box

Einaudi studied classical music and composition fully and formally. He studied with one of the great masters of contemporary classical music, Luciano Berio; one does not get accepted to study with such a composer/teacher unless you are writing in a very different vein other than what Einaudi composes in now. This means, and it was I'm sure based upon a conscious decision, that Einaudi dropped all that and left the very different musical direction he was in and 'switched' to writing the style of music he is now known for. It is pretty certain that change had nothing to do with a soul-searching question of aesthetics or ethics about writing more 'tonal' music to serve the people, but that it was a fast and cold cynical decision to abandon a career path where he might not have 'had it' to compete, and instead choosing to write in a way calculated to bring a higher degree of success and financial rewards.

So. Ka-ching, ka-ching, he switched to writing simpler music he knew would be popular. I think his works are utterly insincere, that he's "all about the money," and that he generates pieces offhandedly, almost like writing himself a check, and laughs all the way to the bank as the money rolls in.

That will not, I hope, put you off what you like. It is by way of explanation why it is not just his music which many fans of classical find less than interesting, but part of why he is reviled is that sell-out and what is perceived as cynicism and insincerity in the music he does make.


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Einaudi studied classical music and composition fully and formally. He studied with one of the great masters of contemporary classical music, Luciano Berio; one does not get accepted to study with such a composer/teacher unless you are writing in a vein very other than what Einaudi composes in now. This means, and based upon a conscious decision, it seems that Einaudi dropped all that, left the very different musical direction he was in and 'switched' to writing the style of music he is now known for, and that change had nothing to do wiaht a soul-searching aesthetic or ethical question about writing more 'tonal' music to serve the people, but it was a fast and cold cynical decision to abandon a career path where he might not have 'had it' to compete, and instead choosing to write in a way calculated to bring a higher degree of success and financial rewards.
> 
> So. Ka-ching, ka-ching, he switched to writing simpler music he knew would be popular. I think his works are utterly insincere, that he's "all about the money," and that he generates music pieces offhandedly, almost like writing himself a check, and laughs all the way to the bank as the money rolls in.
> 
> That will not, I hope, put you off what you like. It is by way of explanation why it is not just his music which many fans of classical find less than interesting, but part of why he is reviled is that sell-out and what is perceived as cynicism and insincerity in the music he does make.


Very often, I venture into a thread with a cluster of ideas, emotions and intentions bubbling in my head, struggling to organise them into coherent and hopefully articulate words on the dotted line, only to find PetrB has already expressed my thoughts more eloquently than I ever could have.

Let me just add one more thing: Einaudi's music could have been written by any mid-range personal computer with the right (and already readily available) software.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

It aint terrible, great, nor classical. But if your'e looking for a simple sentimentality, it works fine.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

There is a good summary of objections listed already. His music is frequently played on Classic FM and is (presumably) enjoyed by many of the listeners to this station. I don't 'hate' his music, but I would much, much rather listen to something that is more interesting. 
However, if you like it, then carry on listening to it ... and also have a look at PetrB's list of 'music in a similar vein' when you feel that it would be good to find something else to listen to 

oh ... and welcome to the forum!


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## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

Thank you to everyone who welcomed me to the forum  

I just wanted to say, that I was in no way looking to alter my stance on Einaudi's music - I think differences of opinion are important to break the "follow the heard" culture that many humans promote. Further, I listen to Einaudi solely for the fact its nature isn't dramatic or particularly hard to listen to. It's perfect for when I'm studying and want a bit of background music to break up the monotony of university assignments. I think each composer, genre etc. has their own valid benefits that are probably more down to the individual's taste than anything else. 

I will note, if he is indeed a "sellout" then that does dent my opinion of his character, but again, many markets come about to simply exploit vulnerabilities in the community. But anyway, i digress ... 

Thank you for all the suggestions!  I'm going to listen to them all now


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Holding your own and making good argument for it bodes more than well for you. Even among the most 'learned' of musicians (I know quite a few) it is understood that when two or more of them are arguing / debating the qualities or lack thereof about, say, Tchaikovsky, there are just too many variables of a personal nature (taste, personal sense of a particular aesthetic, etc.) for anyone's opinions or arguments to actually conclusively 'prove' their points.

Keep your ears open to all kinds of music, classical, non, ethnic from other cultures, listen with curiosity and a bit of passion, even to music best suited as gentle non-obtrusive background music -- and welcome to the forum.


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## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

PetrB said:


> Holding your own and making good argument for it bodes more than well for you. Even among the most 'learned' of musicians (I know quite a few) it is understood that when two or more of them are arguing / debating the qualities or lack thereof about, say, Tchaikovsky, there are just too many variables of a personal nature (taste, personal sense of a particular aesthetic, etc.) for anyone's opinions or arguments to actually conclusively 'prove' their points.
> 
> Keep your ears open to all kinds of music, classical, non, ethnic from other cultures, listen with curiosity and a bit of passion, even to music best suited as gentle non-obtrusive background music -- and welcome to the forum.


Thanks, PetrB - I'm about to listen to your suggestions now


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

I enjoy Einaudi's music. You may want to check out the album below by British violinist Daniel Hope. In addition to two pieces by Einaudi, it collects works of a similar temperament by a number of composers including Fauré, Pärt, and Gabriel Prokofiev.









I particularly like the opening track by Johann Paul von Westhoff (1656-1705):


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## lvella (Sep 10, 2014)

Balthazar said:


> I enjoy Einaudi's music. You may want to check out the album below by British violinist Daniel Hope. In addition to two pieces by Einaudi, it collects works of a similar temperament by a number of composers including Fauré, Pärt, and Gabriel Prokofiev.
> 
> View attachment 50850
> 
> ...


Really enjoying the album thus far! Thanks, Balthazar


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Despite how long some have been listening to classical music, everyone here is still exploring.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I love both solo piano classical music and ambient, atmospheric music (including some piano oriented ambient music) and I have listened more to these two genres than anything else in music, but Einaudi doesn't appeal to me from either perspective. It fails to engage at any sort of level.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Ivella --

I found the following in a loudspeaker review (for the Endeavor Audio E-3) featured in the current issue (246, October 2014) of _The Absolute Sound_, a rather respected American audio magazine. The review was written by Spencer Holbert, and the blurb given below appears on page 74. I offer this to give you encouragement in your tastes in music.

For the last four months, my favorite small-scale classical reference music has been Ludivico Einaudi's hauntingly beautiful _In a Time Lapse_. The beauty of this album is that it was recorded in a monastery, the ambience of which requires a system that can produce deep and accurate soundstaging in order to fully realize the album's emotional impact, as well as properly register the positions of the violins and piano.

Holbert goes on to praise the speaker under review as having the ability to make him feel "as if I could see Einaudi's fingers move along the piano keys."

But note that the reviewer calls the music "hauntingly beautiful" and is able to appreciate it on a high-end, sophisticated stereo rig. Perhaps folks would enjoy more types of music if only they could hear it well played. I know I am often surprised by an album from which I didn't expect much when I get a chance to hear it on a good system, and all of a sudden the sound and the background and the ambience of the hall and the locations of the musicians all open up and a completely new picture of the music is presented.

You might aspire to putting together a respectable high-end system (which doesn't necessarily mean high cost system) by which to even moreso enjoy the music you enjoy.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I listened to some Einaudi music. To me, it sounds like new-age: soothing, sentimental and repetitive. It can hold my interest for a couple of minutes but has no staying power. For those who love new-age music, Einaudi likely is well-received.


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## nikola (Sep 7, 2012)

Interesting topic. I recently started to listen to Einaudi's albums and I must say that I'm quite disappointed. The style is not the problem to me. The problem is the the lack of creativity, emotions and originality. It's all just too shallow and predictable. Melody is only there to follow predictable and banal harmonies. His 'Divenire', 'Le Onde' and especially 'I Giorni' albums are mediocre and weak IMO. The only one I like so far is his 'Nightbook' album. Something started to happen there... more challenging compositions, edgier, really good ambient, etc. 

I don't have problem with more simple compositions and I actually love Yanni's 'In My Time' album. Overally, I think that Yanni is pretty much challenging and brilliant contemporary composer that is able to make more complex, emotional and original music than many famous artists today. 
On the other hand, Einaudi is simply more of something like a true poser than serious musician. 

Also, one great contemporary album is 'Piano Works' by Craig Armstrong. 

I also love Morricone who is my favorite artist and since they're both Italian, I though that Einaudi will be great too. Oh well, I was wrong.


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## smjty (Aug 27, 2016)

Though I'm not a fan of this man , I found the 3'rd movement of his piano concerto 'domino' enjoyable . Classicfm radio played it recently ,sadly it can't be found any place else !


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

smjty said:


> Though I'm not a fan of this man , I found the 3'rd movement of his piano concerto 'domino' enjoyable . Classicfm radio played it recently ,sadly it can't be found any place else !


This are other works:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/a/-/1507/Ludovico-Einaudi/medium-CD


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

For proper piano ambience:
Harold Budd & Brian Eno - The Plateaux of Mirror
Harold Budd & Brian Eno - The Pearl


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Finally got around to listening to some of Einaudi's music - it's pleasant on the ear and relaxing. I can see why many classical music lovers would find it way too bland to their taste.


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## sloth (Jul 12, 2013)

I've always had the impression that Einaudi got his fame thanks to his surname (at least here in Italy). His grandfather was the second President of Italy and his dad founded Einaudi Editore --- the most influential left-wing publishing house in Italy.


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## xavierxante (Jan 3, 2017)

I too don't know why. But one thing I can say for sure is you cannot define any music with a single word. Its like describing how 'beautiful' a person looks by his shadow!

I don't like all of his compositions, some of his compositions are too bland and sappy for my tastes. But some of his compositions like 'Experience' or 'In a time lapse' or 'DNA' are nothing but amazing. 

In the first place, what exaclty is 'classical music'? If we consider Beethoven's moonlight sonata, classical, then at that time period, is it as 'classical' as now ? What are 'classicals' at that time period?

Complexity doesn't alone judge the composition. If complexity alone is the factor of classical music, then Einaudi's is NOT AT ALL A CLASSICAL COMPOSITION. 

Ludovico's might be technically simple and minimalistic, but it has feel, it has life. Some times simple has so much depth.

According to me, music should be free, unbounded. Music itself must convey the story. We will feel the same thing that composers intended to make us feel.

Unfortunately, classical music, as good as it is, is infested with snobbery. That may be the reason why they can't appreciate Einaudi's compositions.

I've listened to Beethoven's moonlight sonata and experience, but I liked experience more.

If the value of composition never fades 
with time, then the music is 'classical'.

So in 2300's if people still remember Einaudi like we remember Beethoven, then his music is classical. If people remember Alan Walker in 2300's then even Alan Walker is a classical composer!!!

If the music alone makes you feel atleast something, then it MUST be a good music.

So, my suggestion, don't bother with what others say, listen to what you like.


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## xavierxante (Jan 3, 2017)

What exactly is considered as classical music according to you? What is your definition of classical music in the first place


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## xavierxante (Jan 3, 2017)

Besides the word classical is overloaded like equality symbol in mathematics. Classical music changes from place to place. In our country(India) classical music is completely different from what you know, although the basic might be same, instruments used are entirely different.

The "classical" you know is actually western art music. It has history of over 1000 years. According to the structure based on the history, Ludovico's is DEFINITELY NOT A WESTERN ART MUSIC. Western art music, has a defnite 'architecture' of harmonics and notes but Ludovico's are just simple notes, they do not follow a rigorous pattern. You can call it has contemporary classical or better minimalistic music. But definitely not traditional classical music.

In future the defnition of classical may entirely change. In past classical might have been entirety different. We don't know how people of that era regarded Beethoven. We have very few historical evidences. But fortunately we have his beautiful compositions intact.

History aside.......if you enjoy classical music, then you are able to understand the feelings of composer, you're empathetic. That doesn't mean that you have superior taste. Pop music or modern music is NOT inferior to classical music. If you're able to feel it, then it must be a good music.

In a bottom line don't be a snob.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> In a bottom line don't be a snob.


Always take discussions on public forum with a little pinch of salt, helps a lot.
Welcome to Talk Classical by the way.


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## Kajmanen (Jun 30, 2017)

People listen to and praise Ludovico becasue he atleast use melody in a traditional way which no "serious" composer seems to do anyways.

https://www.cookylamoo.com/boringli...sucks-just-ask-the-people-who-promote-it.html


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

EdwardBast said:


> I won't prevaricate around the bush: I find his music to be schlock, dreck, and insipid. Welcome to the forum!


refreshingly subjective terminology for Mr EdwardBast! :tiphat:


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