# Slowest versions of the great symphonies....what are they?



## Itullian

I love them sloooooooooowwwwwwww. With old time stately minuets and scherzos.

So help me know the slowest ones out there. 

Love old Klemperer and Celebidache stuff.

Any other slow fans out there?:tiphat:


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## itywltmt

Stokowski and Toscanini would probabkly register here as well.

I think slow as a matter of em_pha_sis is good in moderation, the same way as extra fast for fast passages can be.

The only such instance that stands out for me off the top of my head is Bernstein's last concert and his "slow, deliberately so" second movement from Beethoiven's seventh...

I had that as part of a montage a few weeks back. Look up my blogspot blog on 19 August of this year for the links.


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## Itullian

i love slow. Bernsteins last Pathetique........heavenly
Stokowski yes, Toscy nah.


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## Manxfeeder

I think I'm built more for speed than comfort, but I'm interested if someone can really pull off something slow. 

I'm listening to a download of Celibidache doing Bruckner's 4th - I don't know from when - which is magnificent, and Reinbert De Leeuw's Satie recording is a marvel of sustained concentration.


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## joen_cph

Most of Celibidache´s recordings on EMI are of course famous for their - slowness, whereas his DGs and some others can be on the fast side.

Late Klemperer and Bøhm are some other well-known examples (again: different from their early years).

But Britten´s excellent Mozart 40/decca has heavenly slow moments.

Scherchen in Mahler´s 5th _Adagietto_ with the Philadelphia O (on you-t also) is the slowest version ever, very controversial.

Comissiona´s old Pettersson 9 is almost 20 mins slower than the more widely available Francis on CPO, and makes the music very different and much less stressfull, giving time to the long string episodes - much to be preferred.

There is great slowness in Ernst Levy`s and Emil Gilels "Hammerklavier"`Adagio, among others, whereas it becomes intolerable IMO in Pogorelich´s Liszt sonata (you-t).


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## annie

name some and i'll try to check their playtime....excluding any 20th century material... and very few exceptional repeats may be


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## Itullian

annie said:


> name some and i'll try to check their playtime....excluding any 20th century material... and very few exceptional repeats may be


playtime is deceiving. i love slow tempi.


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## Itullian

i have this recording of Klemperer live on EMI doing Ludwig's 5th. it's so slow i revel in it. and Guilini's Ludwig on Sony, love it.


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## samurai

The andante movement from the *Second* *Symphony* of *Alan* *Hovhaness*, performed by the Seattle Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Gerard Schwarz: Seattle Symphony Orchestra - Symphony No. 2, Op. 132, "Mysterious Mountain": III. Andante Espressivo


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## Vesteralen

Klemperer's Haydn Symphonies and his Schubert's Fifth have long been favorites of mine.

But, slowness is not always pleasing to me. Giulini's "Rhenish" was agonizingly slow. And, older Barenboim performances, for me, can sometimes suck the life right out of certain works.

I had a roommate many years ago who was a big Bruno Walter fan. His Mozart had some truly elephantine tempos, but the recordings were magnificent. Some of the best vinyl ever made.


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## Sid James

I used to have THIS recording of *Schubert's Symphony #9 "The Great" under Maestro Bernstein*. His tempos were quite slow & relaxed in this account, he really let the music kind of breathe. I think it was his last, or one of the last, recordings he made...


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## Xytech

I've got a pretty slow recording of Furtwangler doing Beethoven 3 in "The Legacy" collection. Or maybe that is just because I've been listening to Toscanini so much lately! I did feel that it was so slow to the point that some of the excitement was killed, but maybe it is a more mature recording (although the Toscanini I am comparing it to was recorded when he was getting on!!!)


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## GoneBaroque

itywltmt said:


> The only such instance that stands out for me off the top of my head is Bernstein's last concert and his "slow, deliberately so" second movement from Beethoiven's seventh...


During that performance Bernstein was very ill and at one point had to lean back against the podium rail from weakness. He died shortly after. That may account for the slowness of the performance.


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## Xytech

GoneBaroque said:


> During that performance Bernstein was very ill and at one point had to lean back against the podium rail from weakness. He died shortly after. That may account for the slowness of the performance.


Is this on youtube?


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## elgar's ghost

I gather Klemperer's EMI recording of Mahler's 7th stretches out to well over 100 minutes when most of the more leisurely-paced performances barely touch the 80 minutes mark. I've never heard it - a profound experience or just too much of a good thing?


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## samurai

Listen to the beauty of this Andante movement from Howard Hanson's *2nd* *Symphony*: Seattle Symphony Orchestra - Symphony No. 2, Op. 30, "Romantic": II. Andante Con Tenerezza


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## Vaneyes

Generally, the slowpokes are Celibidache, Giulini, Klemperer, and Bernstein (DG). Too much of a good thing.


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## DavidA

Klemperer Beethoven 6 - wonderfully rustic; no 7 wonderfully trenchant
Beethoven 6 in Liszt's transcription played by Gould - one of the most astonishing pieces of sustained piano playing on disc.
Brookner eight with Karajan
Celi tends to leave me bored.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

elgars ghost said:


> I gather Klemperer's EMI recording of Mahler's 7th stretches out to well over 100 minutes when most of the more leisurely-paced performances barely touch the 80 minutes mark. I've never heard it - a profound experience or just too much of a good thing?


It's an absolute shocker, Klemperer's worst recording. Far too slow, the orchestra doesn't even keep together!

Usually I am not much of a fan of slow recordings. Celibidache's Bruckner on the other hand is the most magical sounding Bruckner I've ever heard and it _is_ abnormally slow.


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## techniquest

> I gather Klemperer's EMI recording of Mahler's 7th stretches out to well over 100 minutes when most of the more leisurely-paced performances barely touch the 80 minutes mark. I've never heard it - a profound experience or just too much of a good thing?


I have it and it is slooooooowww. But I wouldn't call it an 'absolute shocker'; it makes for a fascinating listen and may be something you'd enjoy (assuming you're okay with Mahler of course).

There are some interesting Klemperer live recordings on Youtube which you might enjoy - here is a particularly slow last movement of Beethoven's 7th.





If you like Shostakovich, here is Vassily Petrenko doing his trademark very slow ending of the 5th (go from 7:12).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Apparently Klemperer holds the record for both the fastest recording and the slowest recording of Mahler's Resurrection.


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## Delicious Manager

Try Knappertsbusch's Beethoven _Pastoral_; it seems to go on for HOURS.


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## Delicious Manager

Try Knappertsbusch's Beethoven 8; it seems to go on for HOURS.

First movement:






Second movement (get ready forthis!):






Third movement:






Finale (this allegro isn't very 'vivace'!):


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## elgar's ghost

Thanks especially to CoAG, Techniquest and DM for their posts. Just looking at the timings of Knapp's Beethoven 8 seems to tell its own story - I'll have to listen to what seems like an unfeasibly long 2nd movement soon purely out of morbid curiosity.

I've never found out what inspired Klemp to drag out Mahler's 7th so long. The consensus of opinion seems to be that such a leisurely pace suffocates the work rather than teases out its subtleties. I have his EMI performances of the 2nd, 4th, 9th and DLvdE and like them all but nothing on those strikes me as going against the grain like what he apparently seems to do with the 7th.

Mind you, I've got a version of Gliere's 3rd symphony and that goes on for a whopping 93 minutes - c. 20 minutes longer than the average timing.


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## techniquest

Delicious Manager - you've uploaded the first movement twice


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## Delicious Manager

techniquest said:


> Delicious Manager - you've uploaded the first movement twice


Ooops! Thanks for pointing that out - must have been the boredom! Now corrected.


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## elgar's ghost

Delicious Manager said:


> Ooops! Thanks for pointing that out - must have been the boredom! Now corrected.


That's a relief - I was wondering how it could have lasted for 11 minutes.


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## Mahlerian

elgars ghost said:


> I've never found out what inspired Klemp to drag out Mahler's 7th so long. The consensus of opinion seems to be that such a leisurely pace suffocates the work rather than teases out its subtleties. I have his EMI performances of the 2nd, 4th, 9th and DLvdE and like them all but nothing on those strikes me as going against the grain like what he apparently seems to do with the 7th.


According to contemporary reports, Mahler's own timings were somewhat faster than those taken by most conductors today. The Adagietto of the 5th took about 8 minutes under his baton. If you've ever wondered why the thing drags under so many great conductors, that's because it's taken far too darned slow.

Of course, Mahler's tempo in everything was quite flexible, which doesn't fit the current prevailing idiom. Critics frequently charged him with "willful eccentricities" in his treatment of the classics for that and other reasons.


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## Bas

The Bruckner of Celibidache is very slooooow!


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