# Ageless Voices



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Leontyne Price, who was in the contest today, did not have an ageless voice per se. but her top was radiant up until her 6th decade. What I am looking for today are singers who's voices remained remarkably the same over a long career. I know many of you do not like the WAY Renee Fleming sang, but there is no denying that there were very little changes in her voice up till she stopped singing opera. She stopped singing above high C later on but the rest of the voice to me sounded the same. She attributes that to the fact that she has always sung a disproportionately large number of Mozart roles which keep the voice very healthy as you must sing very correctly to handle his music. I have some more I could mention but I am going to at first let some of you mention some that come to mind for you.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Flagstad. Berger.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

You'd expect me to mention the Wagnerians, so I'll cite Melchior and Flagstad. Melchior was a freak of nature in both vocal qualities and longevity. Listening to his recordings, you simply can't guess when they were made, and there's very little change to his voice right up through his sixties. Flagstad's voice took on a deeper quality and she lost some ease and a couple of notes at the top, but the technique remained rock-solid and the timbre unmistakable. Considering that both these voices spent much of their time battling Wagner's orchestra, we have to hear in them a testament to both natural endowment and technical wisdom.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

A soprano not very popular outside of Italy, Mariella Devia sang mostly _bel canto _roles throughout her career. Very easy, secure, beautiful high notes. Here she is at age 71 (according to the video date)





She did have several lacunae: trills and dramatic acumen and stage presence.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> A soprano not very popular outside of Italy, Mariella Devia sang mostly _bel canto _roles throughout her career. Very easy, secure, beautiful high notes. Here she is at age 71 (according to the video date)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the later two skills myself. I can twirl but trilling eludes me. Lacunae is the best word used in the forum this year! BTW, her dress is gorgeous.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Flagstad, Melchior, Rysanek, Nilsson, Ponselle, Simionato, Taddei.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Giovanni Martinelli
Giacomo Lauri-Volpi
Mirella Freni


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Some we've marveled at before, but I'm always amazed by these singers' late recordings:

*Dorothy Kirsten*: Dorothy Kirsten - Age 71 year's Depuis Le Jour - YouTube
In addition to being ageless, Kirsten's voice was indestructible. People say Price was a spinto, but only one of them could sing Minnie repeatedly with no problems and be heard. Kirsten sang Minnie, Butterfly, and Tosca on stage, all known as voice wreckers for overly ambitious lyric sopranos, with no harmful effects. Freni is a famous Cio Cio San from recordings, and faked a more dramatic instrument later, but she couldn't sing it on stage. For comparison, here she is at 38: DOROTHY KIRSTEN SINGS - DEPUIS LE JOUR-gustav charpentier 1948 REHEARSAL - YouTube
*Mark Reizen*: Mark Reizen at 79- The fearful moment (Tchaikovsky) - YouTube
Yes, Reizen sang on stage at 90, but his voice had clearly aged by then. Here there is astonishingly little deterioration. I dare any modern bass at 40 to make the sound he makes at 2:54 and following without spitting their larynx across the hall in the attempt.
*Beniamino Gigli*: Beniamino Gigli - Guardate, pazzo son [Puccini - Manon Lescaut] - Rio 1951 - YouTube
Okay, his crying thing is kind of hilarious, but he does not sound like a 61 year old man vocally. The recording quality being poor actually probably adds somewhat to the powerful sound of his voice here, but there's no wobble (he occasionally had a slight one after the early 40s) and he is clearly heard slicing through the thick orchestration with ease.
*Florence Easton*: Tristan und Isolde... in English: Soprano Florence Easton & Tenor Arthur Carron (1942) - YouTube
She had an extraordinary memory, and sang everything from Lauretta to Brunnhilde, and at 60 has a fresh, maidenly sounding voice, as opposed to the expired, matronly sounding voices our Wagnerians have at 40. Almost no deterioration in 24 years of Butterflies, Toscas, Elektras, Brunnhildes, Isoldes, and Turandots (I wish we had a recording of that!): Puccini / Florence Easton, 1918: O Mio Babbino Caro (Gianni Schicchi) - Studio Recording - YouTube
I sometimes forget that *Mattia Battistini* is an entire generation earlier than De Luca and Stracciari because the latter two were making recordings as early as 1902 (earlier in De Luca's case). Battistini's last recordings were made in his 60s, and are very impressive. His 1924 A tanto amor at 68:
Donizetti - La Favorita - A tanto amor - Mattia Battistini (1924) - YouTube
His 1907 version (he's already 51):
Mattia Battistini, "A Tanto Amor," La Favorita Donizetti 1907 - YouTube
The earlier recording _is_ better, imo, but the later one is still excellent. He shows no wobble and the high notes are very much intact.
This *Anne Roselle* "In questa reggia" didn't do well when I had it put in a contest, but I think it's very good and enormously impressive for a near 60 year old singer. She's very secure and sounds much more so than most sopranos ever do in the high lying passages of this murderous (in multiple senses) aria.
ROSELLE TURANDOT in Italian 1 - YouTube
For comparison, her early rendition in German:
Anne Roselle (1893-1989), soprano "German creator of Turandot", Berlin 1926 Grammophone. - YouTube


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

RICK RIEKERT said:


> Giovanni Martinelli
> Giacomo Lauri-Volpi
> Mirella Freni


I'm not sure I'd call these voices ageless, though they may have had long careers. It's arguable that Lauri-Volpi was well past his best when he retired and Freni certainly didn't sound anything like her younger self. I heard her towards the end of her career in *Fedora *and the voice had aged quite a bit.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'm not sure I'd call these voices ageless, though they may have had long careers. It's arguable that Lauri-Volpi was well past his best when he retired and Freni certainly didn't sound anything like her younger self. I heard her towards the end of her career in *Fedora *and the voice had aged quite a bit.


Freni had a 28-year career as a lyric soprano as the voice (and physique) hardly changed. Then she had a 15-year career as a _spinto _soprano which aged the voice rapidly. Nevertheless, it was an honorable second career singing all the roles she had so far denied herself.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Lauri-Volpi could still make a big sound in his old age, but developed a large wobble. Freni started to sound like an old lady in the late 70s. She's an interesting case, though, as she seems to have adopted this sound intentionally. With the right vocal advice she might have been able to strengthen her voice to sing heavier parts, but if her recordings give correct indications, she simply darkened it and made her sound cloudy and heavy. Personally, I don't care for hardly any of her recordings past 1974 or 1975. In the 1960s she can't be beat in roles like Mimi and Micaela.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

vivalagentenuova said:


> Some we've marveled at before, but I'm always amazed by these singers' late recordings:
> 
> *Dorothy Kirsten*: Dorothy Kirsten - Age 71 year's Depuis Le Jour - YouTube
> In addition to being ageless, Kirsten's voice was indestructible. People say Price was a spinto, but only one of them could sing Minnie repeatedly with no problems and be heard. Kirsten sang Minnie, Butterfly, and Tosca on stage, all known as voice wreckers for overly ambitious lyric sopranos, with no harmful effects. Freni is a famous Cio Cio San from recordings, and faked a more dramatic instrument later, but she couldn't sing it on stage. For comparison, here she is at 38: DOROTHY KIRSTEN SINGS - DEPUIS LE JOUR-gustav charpentier 1948 REHEARSAL - YouTube
> ...


I heard a recording on Met Opera Radio of Kirsten at age 65 in Butterfly and she not only sounded great but sounded believably like a young woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Magda Olivero (nary a wobble)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I heard a recording on Met Opera Radio of Kirsten at age 65 in Butterfly and she not only sounded great but sounded believably like a young woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!


She did many a *Tosca *with tenors who could’ve been her grandsons!


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Leontyne Price, who was in the contest today, did not have an ageless voice per se. but her top was radiant up until her 6th decade. What I am looking for today are singers who's voices remained remarkably the same over a long career.


The aging of Leontyne Price's voice suited her. I was not a fan of the way her middle register developed the unfocused, muddy quality that many have criticized in previous conversations, but the voice overall developed this gritty, aggressive quality that was extremely satisfying in the right rep.



> I know many of you do not like the WAY Renee Fleming sang, but there is no denying that there were very little changes in her voice up till she stopped singing opera. She stopped singing above high C later on but the rest of the voice to me sounded the same. She attributes that to the fact that she has always sung a disproportionately large number of Mozart roles which keep the voice very healthy as you must sing very correctly to handle his music. I have some more I could mention but I am going to at first let some of you mention some that come to mind for you.


This is a fair point, though I did notice two major changes: one good and one bad.
bad: the upper middle part of her voice developed a weird, croony quality (probably reverting to her jazz days)
good: better chest voice. powerful, husky, at times completely unexpected.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Pavarotti (no one's mentioned him yet? .....really?)
Nilsson
Bjorling (I was never really a huge fan, but his voice always had this ageless, angelic quality which deserves credit)
Popp
Bartoli (her singing irritates me, but I really can't tell much difference between performances 20+ years apart, so she did something right)
Nelson Eddy


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Pavarotti (no one's mentioned him yet? .....really?)
> Nilsson
> Bjorling (I was never really a huge fan, but his voice always had this ageless, angelic quality which deserves credit)
> Popp
> ...


Nilsson had truly remarkable longevity and her upper register was remarkably resilient till the end, but the voice did sound older by the time she reached her 60's. Still, her Isolde's Curse at 65 and those late Elektra's were very impressive. The most impressive thing she sang when she was older was the Jenny Lind coloratura aria When I was Seventeen when she sounded 30 years younger at the end of the big Met Gala after the Curse.
You are right about Bartoli and Bjorling.
Pavarotti always sounded like Pav but during the last part of his career he was helped by using microphones a lot. He was more of a pop artist by then. He never equaled the impressive glory of his early days when his voice was so gorgeous.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Magda Olivero (nary a wobble)


For me her vibrato was actually much better when she was older as it was so fast to begin with age helped it for me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Nilsson had truly remarkable longevity and her upper register was remarkably resilient till the end, but the voice did sound older by the time she reached her 60's. Still, her Isolde's Curse at 65 and those late Elektra's were very impressive. The most impressive thing she sang when she was older was the Jenny Lind coloratura aria When I was Seventeen when she sounded 30 years younger at the end of the big Met Gala after the Curse.
> You are right about Bartoli and Bjorling.
> Pavarotti always sounded like Pav but during the last part of his career he was helped by using microphones a lot. He was more of a pop artist by then. He never equaled the impressive glory of his early days when his voice was so gorgeous.


re: Fleming- Her Bel Canto album released in 2002 already showed one of the best soprano chest register's I have heard. Of course not with the dramatic soprano power of Callas, but with great strength, beauty and a seamless connection with the rest of her voice.


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## Montarsolo (5 mo ago)

Peter Schreier. In his later recordings he still sounds very young.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Nilsson had truly remarkable longevity and her upper register was remarkably resilient till the end, but the voice did sound older by the time she reached her 60's. Still, her Isolde's Curse at 65 and those late Elektra's were very impressive. The most impressive thing she sang when she was older was the Jenny Lind coloratura aria When I was Seventeen when she sounded 30 years younger at the end of the big Met Gala after the Curse.


Nilsson is similar to Sutherland in that she makes it sound so easy that many people (of which I am not one) get bored. Still, what stands out the most about her is her fil de voce. Like....how the hell does a deep, dark dramatic soprano suddenly turn around and say "I'm going to sing above High C and sound like a 15 year old girl". Ageless voice indeed.










> Pavarotti always sounded like Pav but during the last part of his career he was helped by using microphones a lot. He was more of a pop artist by then. He never equaled the impressive glory of his early days when his voice was so gorgeous.


It's true. While his voice continued to sound _ageless, _that didn't mean it didn't lose that glorious, full-throated squillo that rang through the halls during his early days. I generally don't like brighter tenor voices, but in his early days, he was basically a male Joan: easily soaring over the highest tessituras of the tenor fach, but with a huge, open sound and a monster squillo that would rival Corelli.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Op.123 said:


> Flagstad, Melchior, Rysanek, Nilsson, Ponselle, Simionato, Taddei.


Flagstad and Melchior easily make my list, but.....Ponselle and Simionato? These picks confuse me. 

In the case of Ponselle, compare the angelic sound of 1920s Ponselle to 1950s Ponselle. Fwiw, I don't consider this a flaw. She embraced that old lady chest voice and sang like she was friggin Manrico. 









Simionato also sounded her age...in a good way. She starts off here sounding like Eleanor Stebor and ends sounding like Elena Nicolai. 






PS: I assume you mean Leonie Rysanek rather than Regina Rysanek, as the latter....literally sang the entire spectrum of the female voice and would show up sounding like a completely different person every 5-10 years. As a teenager, she sounded like Deana Durbin, then dropped to Verdi/Puccini roles, then dramatic soprano, then mezzo, and even toed into contralto rep like Baba in The Medium.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Unfortunately, the majority of my favorite singers either don't have a terribly long recording history or...don't make the cut. for example

Callas: no
Obraztsova: negative
Merrill: nope
Sutherland: noooo
Solovyanenko: nein

kinda/sorta

Ramey: (he did alright until he was like 60)
Corelli
Del Monaco
Hines
Dominguez

With that said, a few more that do

Cernei
Traubel (surprise surprise)
Warren (he always sounded kinda old, but he sounded consistently the same age)
Menghini-Cattaneo
Claramae Turner
Mykola Kondratyuk
John Alexander
Lieder 
Notice I mentioned several of the ones who do on the thread about powerful middle register. I'm convinced that makes a difference.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Flagstad and Melchior easily make my list, but.....Ponselle and Simionato? These picks confuse me.
> 
> In the case of Ponselle, compare the angelic sound of 1920s Ponselle to 1950s Ponselle. Fwiw, I don't consider this a flaw. She embraced that old lady chest voice and sang like she was friggin Manrico.
> 
> ...


Ponselle always had that extra octave at the bottom, but just rarely had the chance to use it. Suicidio, Delilah and the Aida Tomb Scene were among the rare places she could show off her powerful lower voice, and never down to a low tenor C like in the Russian aria. In the 50's after 15 years of retirement she made many home recordings in which the voice had aged to some extent but still sounded wonderful ( better than most singers) Pavarotti sang with her at 80 and said the voice was still completely intact. The main effect of her getting out of her 20's was she lost her high C. Considering her 4 octave range, that wasn't too much.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Lina Pagliughi always to me sounded fresh and youthful. By the 1950s there was attenuation on the top, but the limpidity was always there. As Margarita Carosio said to Rasponi, nightingales never get old.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Elena Nicolai to me always sounded the same. There was some deterioration in the middle by the mid 50s, but generally it was always a giant rough-edged mass of thick, clotted sound.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

MAS said:


> A soprano not very popular outside of Italy, Mariella Devia sang mostly _bel canto _roles throughout her career. Very easy, secure, beautiful high notes. Here she is at age 71 (according to the video date)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True, Devia is amazing in this concert at 71. I saw her Gilda at the Met and, IMO, she was great at Gilda. She also sounds very good as Norma and Elizabeth in Roberto Deveraux at nearly 70.


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## toasino (Jan 3, 2022)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'm not sure I'd call these voices ageless, though they may have had long careers. It's arguable that Lauri-Volpi was well past his best when he retired and Freni certainly didn't sound anything like her younger self. I heard her towards the end of her career in *Fedora *and the voice had aged quite a bit.


Voices naturally age as the singer ages, though some age earlier than others. Freni and especially Fleming stayed within their natural vocal comfort for most of their careers which enabled them to sound good into their fifties and, in Freni and Devia's cases, into their mid-late sixties.


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## Shaafee Shameem (Aug 4, 2021)

Lilli Lehmann. Sang 170 roles, from the lightest to the heaviest and still at 58 years of age is able to sing 15 D6s.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Maggie Teyte trained with the famous Jean-De Reszke and made her debut at the age of 18. Debussy himself cast her and coached her as Mélisande, when she replaced the originator of the role, Mary Garden.
She had a chequered career, at one time singing in music hall and variety, when she tried reviving her career after a failed marriage. She then had later success and became known as a major interpreter of French song after recording many Debussy songs with Alfred Cortot.
Here she is singing _Asie _from Ravel's _Shéhérazade _at the age of 60. Her voice remained healthy until she retired from the stage in 1951, making her final appearance singing Belinda to Flagstad's Dido at the Mermaid Theatre.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Helen Donath.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Duplicate post 😎


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Arleen Auger (1939-1993). She always sang with such ease.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Francasacchi said:


> Helen Donath.


My sister worked with her and was impressed: she is rarely impressed.


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## Francasacchi (7 mo ago)

Isobel Baillie


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> Flagstad and Melchior easily make my list, but.....Ponselle and Simionato? These picks confuse me.
> 
> In the case of Ponselle, compare the angelic sound of 1920s Ponselle to 1950s Ponselle. Fwiw, I don't consider this a flaw. She embraced that old lady chest voice and sang like she was friggin Manrico.
> 
> ...


Regina RESNIK


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Frickin duplicate


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

MAS said:


> Frickin duplicate


Which reminds me  Gottlob Frick's voice was beautiful over a long time including that late recording of Parsifal with Solti when he was well into his sixties.

Others already mentioned including Pavarotti. 

Alfredo Kraus' voice was an acquired taste but he was in fine shape for a long time.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Which reminds me  Gottlob Frick's voice was beautiful over a long time including that late recording of Parsifal with Solti when he was well into his sixties.
> 
> Others already mentioned including Pavarotti.
> 
> Alfredo Kraus' voice was an acquired taste but he was in fine shape for a long time.


Kraus retained most of his high notes, but the voice got dryer and dryer. But you could always recognize the timbre.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

MAS said:


> Kraus retained most of his high notes, but the voice got dryer and dryer. But you could always recognize the timbre.


My introduction to him was a very late (recorded 1994) recital on Philips called The Incomparable Alfredo Kraus. I didn't quite grasp how unusual it was. 








What is notable, I think, is how responsive his voice remains, the style is clean and he's still singing Hoffmann, Tonio, Faust in his late sixties without need for apology. The voice was dry but it happens to be about as flatteringly recorded as any for that artist so it was a lucky introduction.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Revitalized Classics said:


> Alfredo Kraus' voice was an acquired taste but he was in fine shape for a long time.


This is a good point. Kraus's voice was never very sappy, but it remained healthy throughout his career without any trace of wobble or excessive vibrato. He must have had a superb technique. 

Towards the end of his career, he had reduced his roles to just a couple (Hoffmann and Faust, I think) but a friend of mine who worked at Covent Garden told me he commanded a higher fee for those two roles than any other tenor (including Domingo).


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

MAS said:


> Kraus retained most of his high notes, but the voice got dryer and dryer. But you could always recognize the timbre.


It's worth noting that Kraus sounded a lot better in the theatre than he did on records. I heard him as Romeo at the Met in the mid-1980's, when he was around 60, and he sounded more youthful than virtually anyone else on stage.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

A few baritones (apologies if they've already been mentioned):

Igor Gorin
Giuseppe Taddei
Matteo Manuguerra
Peter Dawson


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Montarsolo said:


> Peter Schreier. In his later recordings he still sounds very young.


Actually, I'd word this very differently - he sounded like an old man in his earliest recordings as a tenor.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> It's worth noting that Kraus sounded a lot better in the theatre than he did on records. I heard him as Romeo at the Met in the mid-1980's, when he was around 60, and he sounded more youthful than virtually anyone else on stage.


The live EMI recording of *La Fille du Régiment *with June Anderson was made in 1986, when he was almost 60 and the top Cs of _Pour mon âme _seem to cost him no effort whatsoever.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Elena Pankratova. The video below is from 2012. Now she is in her late fifties. Last time I saw her was 2021, in her signature part of Barak's wife. The voice was big, powerful, effortless, and still beautiful.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Another bass who preserved his voice well is Robert Lloyd. I heard him as Rocco about fifteen years ago in Boston, when he was about 67 and near retirement, but the voice was still firm and not much different from what it was a couple of decades earlier.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

wkasimer said:


> A few baritones (apologies if they've already been mentioned):
> 
> Igor Gorin
> Giuseppe Taddei
> ...


I find it a little frustrating that with Taddei there was effectively a fifteen (!) year gap from about 1965 to 1980 when he did not record a complete role in the studio. His Rigoletto and Iago deserved stereo studio recordings in any case.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> A few baritones (apologies if they've already been mentioned):
> 
> Igor Gorin
> Giuseppe Taddei
> ...


Baritones are probably the male voice type that comes off the most ageless. Good baritones tend to perpetually sound 35-45. Meanwhile, tenors tend to sound very young when they're young, yet show the signs of aging very clearly. Basses don't sound ageless because their voice doesn't really start to develop until late 30s and hit their prime by mid 40s. Many basses are just starting their careers as their tenor colleagues of the same age are retiring.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> A soprano not very popular outside of Italy, Mariella Devia


Indeed, why was she not known more ?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Indeed, why was she not known more ?


I don’t think she sang abroad much and was a contemporary of more famous sopranos. Also, she didn’t seem to have a recording contract. I suppose that, while accomplished and indeed with an outstanding technique, she was not very imaginative interpretatively.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> ... she was not very imaginative interpretatively.


One critic wrote, that her Norma projects more sadness than from the other interprets. There is some truth to this, and it would make sense for such a character to be sad from the beginning to the end.


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## Otis B. Driftwood (4 mo ago)

Mariella Devia is one of my favorite discoveries.
She's appeared in several good DVD performances, for instance;









Amazon.com: Donizetti - La Fille du Regiment / Devia, Kelly, Podles, Pratico, Borioli, Rivenq, Renzetti, La Scala : Austin Kelly, Nicolas Rivenq, Mariella Devia, Ernesto Gavazzi, Bruno Pratic, Ewa Podles, Edoardo Borioli, Aldo Bramante, Umberto Bergna, Tina Protasoni: Movies & TV


Amazon.com: Donizetti - La Fille du Regiment / Devia, Kelly, Podles, Pratico, Borioli, Rivenq, Renzetti, La Scala : Austin Kelly, Nicolas Rivenq, Mariella Devia, Ernesto Gavazzi, Bruno Pratic, Ewa Podles, Edoardo Borioli, Aldo Bramante, Umberto Bergna, Tina Protasoni: Movies & TV



www.amazon.com












Amazon.com: Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor / Devia, La Scola, Bruson, Colombara, Berti, Ranzani, La Scala Opera : Renato Bruson, Vincenzo La Scola, Mariella Devia, Marco Berti, Carlo Colombara, Floriana Sovilla, Ernesto Gavazzi: Movies & TV


Amazon.com: Donizetti - Lucia di Lammermoor / Devia, La Scola, Bruson, Colombara, Berti, Ranzani, La Scala Opera : Renato Bruson, Vincenzo La Scola, Mariella Devia, Marco Berti, Carlo Colombara, Floriana Sovilla, Ernesto Gavazzi: Movies & TV



www.amazon.com


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> One critic wrote, that her Norma projects more sadness than from the other interprets. There is some truth to this, and it would make sense for such a character to be sad from the beginning to the end.


No, I don’t think *Norma *should be played as a sad character from beginning to end. To me, that just shows Devia’s lack of imagination - or whomever directed her to play it that way.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> No, I don’t think *Norma *should be played as a sad character from beginning to end. To me, that just shows Devil’s lack of imagination - or whomever directed her to play it that way.


If I could lead a Roman legion, be looked up to by my people and sing Casta Diva I would be very happy


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> If I could lead a Roman legion, be looked up to by my people and sing Casta Diva I would be very happy


Pollione led the legions, but couldn’t sing _Casta Diva. _


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Pollione led the legions, but couldn’t sing _Casta Diva. _


You are correct but didn't call them to war???


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are correct but didn't call them to war???


The soprano calls the Druids to war: “Guerra, strage, sterminio!” (War, massacre, extermination).


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> The soprano calls the Druids to war: “Guerra, strage, sterminio!” (War, massacre, extermination).


THAT is what my aged brain was referring to. Don't get old Mas  I knew she called her people to battle  I knew that line and what it meant. She went to bed with the Romans... she sent her warriors after them. It gets confusing but the music is real pretty. A Celtic / Italian(soap) opera.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> No, I don’t think *Norma *should be played as a sad character from beginning to end. To me, that just shows Devia’s lack of imagination - or whomever directed her to play it that way.


I said a stupid thing which is unfair to Both Devia and her director. "From the beginning to the end" were my words, which are obviously incorrect. At the very bare minimum, the duet celebrating the friendship with Adalgisa is joyful, right ?

The critic said something else than what I said. I will quote it: 
"They say that grief can inform our lives to the point of enriching it. Julian Barnes has just published a memoir on his heart-wrenching grief on the loss of his wife. _It hurts just as much as it ought to hurt_, he writes repeatedly. Certainly the Devia Norma is shot through with grief. It’s there, even in scenes where you mightn’t expect it. And this is probably her most striking single contribution to the role. In it, she outstrips Callas. And goodness knows, the great Maria had enough grief in her lifetime to last into eternity." 
The complete text is here. https://seenandheard-international.com/2013/04/mariella-devias-norma/ That particular performance - Devia's debut - is here and you can check where the grief is and if it is appropriate: 




I don't remember which parts of which versions I saw or heard and where exactly the grief was. Complete performances are quite time consuming and I rarely do that. But I often return to this "Qual cor tradisti" due to the piercing bitternes. (And because I like the blue dress  ) Mind you, this is a different performance, not described by the critic. Qual cor tradisti needn't always be piercingly bitter, it is just one take on it, but I like to have this version, among many ways how this opera can be understood:


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> If I could lead a Roman legion, be looked up to by my people and sing Casta Diva I would be very happy


You've got the point. 

On the other hand, singing of Casta Diva happens the day before Pollione's departure is scheduled and Norma knows it. And he still did not talk with her about that. Especially if and when he picks up her and the kids !


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

*I*


BBSVK said:


> I said a stupid thing which is unfair to Both Devia and her director. "From the beginning to the end" were my words, which are obviously incorrect. At the very bare minimum, the duet celebrating the friendship with Adalgisa is joyful, right ?
> 
> The critic said something else than what I said. I will quote it:
> "They say that grief can inform our lives to the point of enriching it. Julian Barnes has just published a memoir on his heart-wrenching grief on the loss of his wife. _It hurts just as much as it ought to hurt_, he writes repeatedly. Certainly the Devia Norma is shot through with grief. It’s there, even in scenes where you mightn’t expect it. And this is probably her most striking single contribution to the role. In it, she outstrips Callas. And goodness knows, the great Maria had enough grief in her lifetime to last into eternity."
> ...


Thanks for the article. What is most remarkable is that Devia was making her debut as *Norma *at 65 years of age!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> *I*
> Thanks for the article. What is most remarkable is that Devia was making her debut as *Norma *at 65 years of age!


Yes !

It brings us back on the topic of Ageless voices.


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