# My ultimate statement , i think Landini was far greater than Machaut



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

But strangely Machaut work is more available than Landini well at least in canada probably in europe it's different or maybe just maybe people favor Machaut.

But Francesco is more than Guillaume de Machaut since , de Machaut is only an ars nova composer
while Landini is an ars nova and and ars subtilior, do i have a good point here?

Machaut overated compared to Landini, this is so unfair this is my opinion.Who feel this way too on TC
and who disagree.

:tiphat:


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

I do not think Machaut is overrated - he was also a great poet - and I do not see any obvious need to compare Landini's reputation with Machaut's, but I agree, that Landini is a bit underrated, at least compared to the number of available recordings of his music.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

deprofundis said:


> But FranQcesco is more than Guillaume de Machaut since , de Machaut is only an ars nova composer
> while Landini is an ars nova and and ars subtilior, do i have a good point here?
> 
> :tiphat:


There's a recording by Gothic Voices called The Unknown Lover, made of songs by Solage and Machaut. Their way of treating Machaut's _Douce Dame tanto com vivray _and _Mors je suis me vous voy_ makes them sound quite interesting harmonically. And hence the CD makes the two composers seem sometimes closer than the Ars Nova / Ars Subtilior distinction would suggest.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Discogs lists 7 Landini CDs, one of which is a transposition on electric guitar by Noel Akchoté. Here

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1000571-Francesco-Landini

In addition I have a CD by Alba Musica Kyo. Mala Punica's recording called D'amour regionando includes a handful of Landini songs, as does Palatino87's CD dedicated to Codex Squarcialupi.

On spotify I can see a complete recording by Federico Bardazzi on label called Bingiovanni. There are several compilation CDs on spotify with significant amounts of songs by Landini.

All this has to be counterbalanced by the fact that less remains of landini' s music than Machaut's as far as I know.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

I certainly can understand the argument that Landini is overlooked. "Far greater" than Machaut? No, I don't agree. In addition to all the motets, chansons, etc., Machaut has the Messe de Nostre Dame. 

(We'll see if this thread becomes as contentious as Bruckner vs. Tchaikovsky )


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## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

deprofundis said:


> Francesco is more than Guillaume de Machaut since , de Machaut is only an ars nova composer
> while Landini is an ars nova and and ars subtilior


What a strange reason to claim Landini was "far greater"! I'm not an expert, but surely Landini's surviving oeuvre is confined to ballatas, and no matter how varied their style is, there can be no comparison to Machaut, whose works include everything from poly-texted isorhythmic motets to one-voice settings of his own beautiful poetry - and, of course, the Notre Dame mass.

As for why his music is more available - well, given that Machaut was one of the very first self-conscious composers, it's obvious. If I remember correctly, he had three copies of the Notre Dame mass prepared for posterity, and left behind numerous texts concerning his works, his working methods, his preferences in music and performance, and so on.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

This is a very fine thing which I've only just discovered, very much in the mould of Tetraktis.









https://lawostore.no/cd/currentes-gundersen-jostein-kunstnerisk-leder-altera-luce-15735


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

My theory teacher circa 1972:

"Its funny that they call it the "Landini Cadence" when Machaut was using it before Landini. "

Machaut was the 14th century's greatest composer AND greatest poet whose influence in both fields continues down through succeeding generations.

While the Mass is stunning, this little piece demonstrates what Nadia Boulanger would call, "the long line."






There is an International Machaut Society, but no International Landini Society. Nuff said right there.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Room2201974 said:


> My theory teacher circa 1972:
> 
> "Its funny that they call it the "Landini Cadence" when Machaut was using it before Landini. ".


Say WHAT? Like the old J. Geils song says, "My blood runs cold, my memory's just been sold."


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

No one's ever said that Landini was the first to use a Landini cadence, the idea is that he used used them a lot. The idea is older than either Machaut or Landini, there's one at the end of this c12 motet (which is wonderful music from Mars)






Re Machaut's importance, I think people who've read his poetry rate it very highly. I can't really read medieval French fluently, but I can with the help of a dictionary (like Chaucer!) Earlier this year I spent a bit of time thinking about Machaut's sequence of 18 motets, and I was astonished at some of the poetry. There was this opening, which is as dramatic as something by John Donne



> Hé. Mors comme tu es haïe
> De moy, quant tu as ravie
> Ma joie, ma druererie [consolation]


and this beautiful pastoral incipit



> Puis que la douce rousee
> D'Umblesse ne vuet florir
> Pitez, . . .


And this, which made me think of King Lear



> Dont n'est ce droite rage?
> Certes, oïl, mais pour rien que je voie
> Pour ce peril issir je ne voudroie.
> Car tous siens sui sans changement de gage
> Quant esperer me fait ma garaison


And how about this for the expression of being rejected



> Com cil qui son anemi
> Mienne noier com amy
> Les bras au col: et tray
> M'ont par tel affaire


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