# Angela Hewitt Your Thoughts?



## Lenfer

Hello all,

I happened to see "*The Complete Angela Hewitt Keyboard Works*" in a music shop today for what I thought was a good price. I don't know much of *Ms. Hewitt* and my other half doesn't have experience with her recordings either.

I lied saying I didn't have my enough money with me and asks the shopkeeper to hold it for me. I came home and checked our "library" needless to say she is absent. I will search *YouTube* for videos but I wonder if you'd share your thoughts on *Angela Hewitt*?

I know it's subjective but if you were me a worthy purchase? :tiphat:

Thanks


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Stop wasting your money on piano music and get some Wagner.


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## emiellucifuge

CErtainly worth buying if its cheap as shes a very competent pianist. I wouldnt say she's inspired or has played 'a definitive' performance of any work, but I admire her Bach as well her Ravel.


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## Lenfer

emiellucifuge said:


> CErtainly worth buying if its cheap as shes a very competent pianist. I wouldnt say she's inspired or has played 'a definitive' performance of any work, but I admire her Bach as well her Ravel.


Thanks *Emie* so far I haven't heard anything that has amazed me. It is only *£*40/*€*50 so I am tempted I just have a long shopping list.


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## Jeremy Marchant

I rate Angela Hewitt. Presumably you mean her Bach box set? 
Should a recording of Bach have to 'amaze' you?
At the very least, she is a 'safe pair of hands' in Bach on the piano, and usually a lot better. I'd go for it (I have quite a few of her seperate Bach releases already).
Glad you like _Harmonielehre_.


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## kv466




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## clavichorder

Judge for yourself. I find her very reliable. And that's a good thing. Gould is sometimes spectacular, but often weird, Miss Hewitt is a very sensible performer.


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## StlukesguildOhio

Her Bach is top notch... and I have a lot of recordings of Bach. I quite enjoyed her performances of other Baroque composers as well: Rameau and Couperin.


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## TrazomGangflow

I have some Recordings of her playing Chopin. I find them to be done quite well.


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## Clementine

Yeah, her Bach is great. No flash, all substance. A pianist I take no issue with, which is an achievement.


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## Lenfer

clavichorder said:


> Judge for yourself. I find her very reliable. And that's a good thing. Gould is sometimes spectacular, but often weird, Miss Hewitt is a very sensible performer.


I haven't been back to the shop but I telephoned the owner is quite happy to keep it for me. I'm apparently one of a very small few who visit the shop, sad really. 

Thanks for the video *Clavichorder* likewise *St. Luke* I shall look up her other recordings.

I don't get the photo *KV*?


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## chuttt

She's famous for her Bach works and here in Canada for sure she's well known and well respected. 

She also has several Beethoven Sonatas lately however I personally don't really like them.


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## Turangalîla

She's wonderful. My only criticism is that most of her very performances are very "safe", a little bit clichéd or over-orthodox, but I love her Bach. Her Ravel and Messiaen are very fine too.

I also respect her very much as a person. She has been a member of the Piano Six, a group of six international-calibre pianists who toured remote parts of Canada that would not otherwise have the opportunity to hear such musicians. They gave concerts at a fraction of the regular cose and they were frequently on sub-standard upright instruments (but they had all agreed to never complain about the instrument that was provided). They also gave masterclasses to children in the area.


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## tdc

Lenfer said:


> I don't get the photo *KV*?


I think its KV's way of saying he finds her playing boring, and if you are wondering who KV _does_ like its Glenn Gould. Different strokes for different folks. If I was asked what I thought of Gould's playing I might just look up a picture of fingernails scraping on chalkboard. (j/k - he is not _that_ bad  )


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## PetrB

Meh... and the Bach I've heard I would call that damning word, "precious." Some people just love 'that,' and my very subjective take on 'precious,' is highly negative.

A lot of comments here are on how 'reliable' she is: much of what sounds a bit positive in these comments could, without distortion, be read as 'journeyman.' Nothing wrong with basic craft, but I'd not be excited about any of the works performed in those recordings.

When it comes to purchasing recordings, other than a two or three CD set, say Samson Francois the complete solo piano music of Ravel, or simile, I'm usually never big on 'box sets' of anything.


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## Ukko

Ms. Hewett seems to have good intentions, and is a competent pianist. Her Bach is 'central'. Regarding interpretation, If you have heard Sergey Schepkin's WTC Bk II or Goldberg Variations, it may be informative when I say that the air is fresher where he is.


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## Vaneyes

"I believe that the justification of art is the internal combustion it ignites in the hearts of men and not its shallow, externalized, public manifestations. The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenalin but is, rather, the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity."

View attachment 5694


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## kv466

tdc said:


> I think its KV's way of saying he finds her playing boring, and if you are wondering who KV _does_ like its Glenn Gould. Different strokes for different folks. If I was asked what I thought of Gould's playing I might just look up a picture of fingernails scraping on chalkboard. (j/k - he is not _that_ bad  )


You trying to read my mind again, Tim!? :lol: Well, you pretty much nailed it except for the chalkboard; unless you've heard _everything_ he's ever recorded, as I have, and then I guess I could try and understand...although I'd be confused. Either way, you know you're one of my most respected fellow members here. I mean,...there's an unknown South American young pianist I heard playing Bach better than this lady who some other folks I respect around here call "top notch". Man,...you give me a couple of months on a serious piece of Bach and let me do a blind sampling and I assure even I can outplay her J.S.; and piano is not even my forte!

Really, now...to me, this is an utter mess:






Now, let's leave Glenn out of this and just go with a normal Argentino:





0

And then, if you must, find the Gould version and if you _still_ rank Hewitt above that, well......

"it don't matter what you got, not a lot...so what...they'll have theirs and you'll have yours and I'll have mine...and together we'll be fine 'cause it takes...different strokes to rule the world!" ooooooooooooo


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## UberB

Don't get it. Hewitt is a boring pianist and her Bach is nowhere near the likes of Gould, Richter, Sokolov, and Argerich. Nowadays it seems that all you need to do is play the notes with a minimum of emotion and people will automatically label you as a great pianist who is faithful to the score (i.e. Brendel, Schiff, Hewitt, etc.) It really is a travesty because a bloodless performance is possibly the greatest disrespect a performer could to do the score. Pianists like Gilels and Richter were always faithful to the score AND their performances were never dry, dead or boring.

I suspect the reason why the boxset is so cheap is because it is, well, Hewitt. If you want to get a big piano boxset then I would suggest the Horowitz: Complete Masterworks Recordings, 1962-1973 (13 CDs). Of course it is much more expensive than the Hewitt boxset but you get what you pay for. If you want to buy the boxset just to get lots of music (regardless of performer) then once again I would advise against it. You probably won't enjoy the music if the interpretation is boring.


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## science

I'd like to bump this old thread - with a solemn thought for Lenfer and another expression of gratitude for what she brought to the forum - because I want to ask about Hewitt in the Romantic repertoire. 

Any fans of Hewitt's Schumann? Or her Liszt? Fauré? Ravel?


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## Albert7

I enjoy Hewitt's colorless playing and it is purely just great in fact. Her Bach Well-Tempered Clavier I own and it's a lovely set to behold. It's not legendary like that of Gould but she is herself here. Plain-spoken on the keyboard and that's wonderful in its own way.


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## leroy

I have her "well tempered klavier" which I have always enjoyed. One of the interesting things is she plays a Fazioli piano which, I believe, has more damper pedals than other grands, so she can shade her volume more evenly which is definitely noticeable in her playing.


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## hpowders

Angela Hewitt is one of the finest Bach pianists around....if you prefer your Bach played on the piano instead of the harpsichord.


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## Lord Lance

If Hewitt isn't your *thing*, and you're experiencing Bach for the first time, may I suggest this _fine, fine_ box set?


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## Albert7

Great box set that you recommended. I have the first book on CD and it was an enthraling experience in fact. It would compliment Perahia's Bach readings.



Lord Lance said:


> If Hewitt isn't your *thing*, and you're experiencing Bach for the first time, may I suggest this _fine, fine_ box set?


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## Mandryka

science said:


> I'd like to bump this old thread - with a solemn thought for Lenfer and another expression of gratitude for what she brought to the forum - because I want to ask about Hewitt in the Romantic repertoire.
> 
> Any fans of Hewitt's Schumann? Or her Liszt? Fauré? Ravel?


I thought her Davidsbundlertanze was exceptional, for the swing, the calm aloof nobility of the dreamy dances, and the sense of abandon in the faster dances.

Another thing I enjoyed was her recording of Bach arrangements.


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## Mandryka

science said:


> I'd like to bump this old thread - with a solemn thought for Lenfer and another expression of gratitude for what she brought to the forum - because I want to ask about Hewitt in the Romantic repertoire.
> 
> Any fans of Hewitt's Schumann? Or her Liszt? Fauré? Ravel?


I thought her Davidsbundlertanze was exceptional, for the swing, the calm aloof nobility of the dreamy dances, and the sense of abandon in the faster dances.

Another thing I enjoyed was her recording of Bach arrangements, and to a lesser extent, the Rameau.

Has anyone heard her Beethoven?


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## Bulldog

The first thoughts I have on this subject are that any pianist immediately has a disadvantage in playing Bach's keyboard music. However, it's a disadvantage that is easily overcome by exceptional Bach pianists such as Gould, Richter, Gulda, Woodward, Koroliov, etc. Angela Hewitt is not in this category; the "precious" nature of her interpretations rules her out. I must say that I find her superior to Perahia and Schiff's Bach on Decca.

Although I already have most of Hewitt's Bach recordings, I can't recommend a whole box of the stuff. Having said this, it's a fact that she has a major reputation as a Bach performing artist. She's tasteful, stylish and entirely harmless. I did attend a Hewitt concert a few years ago where she played mostly Bach and a little Ravel. I was most taken with her posture which was exceptional.


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## Albert7

Bulldog said:


> The first thoughts I have on this subject are that any pianist immediately has a disadvantage in playing Bach's keyboard music. However, it's a disadvantage that is easily overcome by exceptional Bach pianists such as Gould, Richter, Gulda, Woodward, Koroliov, etc. Angela Hewitt is not in this category; the "precious" nature of her interpretations rules her out. I must say that I find her superior to Perahia and Schiff's Bach on Decca.
> 
> Although I already have most of Hewitt's Bach recordings, I can't recommend a whole box of the stuff. Having said this, it's a fact that she has a major reputation as a Bach performing artist. She's tasteful, stylish and entirely harmless. I did attend a Hewitt concert a few years ago where she played mostly Bach and a little Ravel. I was most taken with her posture which was exceptional.


Honestly as much as I enjoy Hewitt's interpretations of Bach I actually prefer Simone Dinnerstein's version better. Lots more color and verve into her playing while keeping mostly to the book. A1 sauce for her Goldberg Variations album as well.


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## tdc

I find her Bach is good, and her Ravel not to my taste - for me a lot of what makes the more difficult Ravel pieces work is the phrasing, which I didn't think Hewitt got quite right when I listened to her _Le Tombeau de Couperin_ but this could be a pretty subjective observation here.


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## Headphone Hermit

I very much like Angela Hewitt's Bach on Hyperion. I very much enjoy the performances and I like her detailed notes on the pieces in the booklets too. 
Of course, it isn't to everyone's taste, but I think her playing is well worth listening to with an open mind


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## tortkis

leroy said:


> I have her "well tempered klavier" which I have always enjoyed. One of the interesting things is she plays a Fazioli piano which, I believe, has more damper pedals than other grands, so she can shade her volume more evenly which is definitely noticeable in her playing.


It seems you have the re-recorded version. I have the old one (1997), for which Steinway was used. I think her recordings of Bach's keyboard works (I have most of them) are remarkable, and her delicate and nuanced playing fits Classical & Romantic music very well. The Beethoven sonatas are quite good, and her rendition of Schumann's piano sonata Op. 11 is deeply moving.


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## hpowders

Angela Hewitt is fine for Bach on the piano if you like that sort of anachronistic thing.

I don't.


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## Albert7

hpowders said:


> Angela Hewitt is fine for Bach on the piano if you like that sort of anachronistic thing.
> 
> I don't.


Anachronistic in which way? I know that she takes a more conservative approach to the music but I don't need the Gould-ian approach every single time here LOL.


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## Itullian

I have all her Bach and enjoy it very much.


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## Lord Lance

Albert7 said:


> Anachronistic in which way? I know that she takes a more conservative approach to the music but I don't need the Gould-ian approach every single time here LOL.


The use of his adjective puzzles me too. Hewitt's cycle may be the finest foray yet. Second to Schiff, of course. Gould is somewhere....


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## Albert7

Lord Lance said:


> The use of his adjective puzzles me too. Hewitt's cycle may be the finest foray yet. Second to Schiff, of course. Gould is somewhere....


Again I would like to reiterate that Simone Dinnerstein for me does a better job at delineating Bach than Hewitt does.


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## Mandryka

Albert7 said:


> Anachronistic in which way? I know that she takes a more conservative approach to the music but I don't need the Gould-ian approach every single time here LOL.


Maybe the conservative approach is anachronistic. Real baroque performers may have been freeer with rhythms, articulations, voicing etc.

Gould is sometimes conservative in Bach - in WTC for example.


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## Balthazar

Albert7 said:


> Anachronistic in which way? I know that she takes a more conservative approach to the music but I don't need the Gould-ian approach every single time here LOL.


I believe that hpowders was simply alluding to the fact that the modern piano did not exist in Bach's time while the harpsichord, of course, did.


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## DavidA

Balthazar said:


> I believe that hpowders was simply alluding to the fact that the modern piano did not exist in Bach's time while the harpsichord, of course, did.


To those of us who don't like the harpsichord ("Two skeletons copulating on a tin roof" was Beecham's description) Bach on the modern piano is a relief. I have the 48 with Hewitt and it is beautifully played. You can't really go wrong with her Bach even though Gould offers more exciting (and sometimes more eccentric) interpretations.


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## hpowders

Albert7 said:


> Anachronistic in which way? I know that she takes a more conservative approach to the music but I don't need the Gould-ian approach every single time here LOL.


Because the music was written for and sounds better, to my ears anyway, on the harpsichord. The modern piano wasn't in use yet.


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## Polyphemus

Where's Ray Harryhausen when you need him.
I have always loved Beecham's tongue in cheek description of the Harpsichord.
As usual Hpowders hits the nail on the head. If it was written for Harpsichord then play it on Harpsichord. 
Perhaps in the future we may look forward to symphonies being played on one of those 'Kieth Emerson' type super keyboards which can reproduce the entire audio spectrum in multi channel.


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## hpowders

Polyphemus said:


> Where's Ray Harryhausen when you need him.
> I have always loved Beecham's tongue in cheek description of the Harpsichord.
> As usual Hpowders hits the nail on the head. If it was written for Harpsichord then play it on Harpsichord.
> Perhaps in the future we may look forward to symphonies being played on one of those 'Kieth Emerson' type super keyboards which can reproduce the entire audio spectrum in multi channel.


Listening to the bass accompaniment in Bach's Keyboard works on the piano, sounds awkward and mechanical-like a "sewing machine". Doesn't sound at all like that on harpsichord. Sounds just right!

Nobody on TC will ever convince me that Bach sounds good on the piano!


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## tdc

hpowders said:


> Listening to the bass accompaniment in Bach's Keyboard works on the piano, sounds awkward and mechanical-like a "sewing machine". Doesn't sound at all like that on harpsichord. Sounds just right!
> 
> Nobody on TC will ever convince me that Bach sounds good on the piano!


Well, I like Bach on both and appreciate your recommendations for harpsichord recordings of these works. However, my understanding is that these pieces were composed for keyboard - not harpsichord specifically. I've heard there even were early pianos around in Bach's day and that he was aware of them. I think one can find different elements that are appealing on both instruments. A harpsichord sounds fantastic but its not as dynamic an instrument as the piano and does not have the same range of expressive capability.


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## DavidA

hpowders said:


> Listening to the bass accompaniment in Bach's Keyboard works on the piano, sounds awkward and mechanical-like a "sewing machine". Doesn't sound at all like that on harpsichord. Sounds just right!
> 
> Nobody on TC will ever convince me that Bach sounds good on the piano!


Frankly the harpsichord sounds more like a sewing machine to me - especially one of those treadle ones my old mum used to have!


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## Corvus

Well now, it all depends on the performer and the particular harpsichord used. Because of this discussion I was motivated to listen to Trevor Pinnock's latest recording of Bach's Partitas on the harpsichord and Angela Hewitt's recording "The Art of Fugue". Both are very good and I would not part with either. I enjoy listening to Bach's keyboard works on both instruments. Heck, I even enjoy transcriptions of Bach's music for other instruments such as the lute!
Angela Hewitt is a very good interpreter of Bach's music. I would snatch up that box set!


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## CDs

It's always nice when you can Google something and add on "talk classical" to the end of your search then already see a thread started about the topic you just googled. Thanks TC!

Seems like there is mixed feelings about Angela Hewitt......
Although I was looking at her Scarlatti performances not her Bach.


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## gardibolt

I'm quite fond of her Beethoven sonatas; a very light touch that gives a different insight into the work, which I always appreciate.


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## cbjes

gardibolt said:


> I'm quite fond of her Beethoven sonatas; a very light touch that gives a different insight into the work, which I always appreciate.


I've mainly listen and enjoyed her bach recordings so far. Especially this one is a little different/interesting






but would really like to explore her beethoven. Which recordings do you recommend to start with?


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## Oldhoosierdude

I quite enjoy Hewitt. Especially when the recording is with the piano she uses most. Sorry can't think of exactly what it is but it sounds great.


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## johnlewisgrant

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I quite enjoy Hewitt. Especially when the recording is with the piano she uses most. Sorry can't think of exactly what it is but it sounds great.


She likes the Fazioli, and she has been a "Fazioli Artist," if you will, for some time. A gutsy move, since Steinway, as you know, seems to be quite powerful.

She thinks the Fazioli has a wider colour-palette. I'm not convinced she's right. I played a full-sized one at a shop. I found it tinny, to be frank. That could be regulation, tuning, humidity, the room, of course. But her second run at the WTK, which uses that instrument, also sounds a bit tinny, at least on my equipment. For sure, it has a lighter touch than either a New York or a Hamburg Steinway. But I LOVE the sound of a well-recorded Hamburg Steinway, and I sure wish I had the cash to purchase one.


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## jegreenwood

johnlewisgrant said:


> She likes the Fazioli, and she has been a "Fazioli Artist," if you will, for some time. A gutsy move, since Steinway, as you know, seems to be quite powerful.
> 
> She thinks the Fazioli has a wider colour-palette. I'm not convinced she's right. I played a full-sized one at a shop. I found it tinny, to be frank. That could be regulation, tuning, humidity, the room, of course. But her second run at the WTK, which uses that instrument, also sounds a bit tinny, at least on my equipment. For sure, it has a lighter touch than either a New York or a Hamburg Steinway. But I LOVE the sound of a well-recorded Hamburg Steinway, and I sure wish I had the cash to purchase one.


I've heard her in concert with the Fazioli. It definitely has a brighter sound than the Steinway I've often heard in the same concert hall, but I would not go so far as to call it tinny.


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## johnlewisgrant

jegreenwood said:


> I've heard her in concert with the Fazioli. It definitely has a brighter sound than the Steinway I've often heard in the same concert hall, but I would not go so far as to call it tinny.


You are quite right. I hesitated before using the word "tinny," and tried to come up with a more precise description. Couldn't think of one; so I hedged I guess by contextualizing (the room, the tuning, etc., etc.,)!!!


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## Mandryka

I just listened to her Humoreske (Schumann) - if her Bach isn’t a lot better than this Schumann she’s seriously overhyped.


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## johnlewisgrant

cbjes said:


> I've mainly listen and enjoyed her bach recordings so far. Especially this one is a little different/interesting
> View attachment 108584
> but would really like to explore her beethoven. Which recordings do you recommend to start with?


I agree with you completely. This is a great recording. I admit to not "loving" much of her solo Bach (for better or worse, I guess); but this is a magical rendering of the concerti, by any measure.


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## Guest

jegreenwood said:


> I've heard her in concert with the Fazioli. It definitely has a brighter sound than the Steinway I've often heard in the same concert hall, but I would not go so far as to call it tinny.


I've only heard her in recordings so it is really impossible to say anything definitive about the sound of the instrument, since the engineering of the recording can have a significant influence.

But based on recent listening to her first (Steinway) and second (Fazoli) Goldberg Varations, the Fazoli sounded a bit tubby to me (not brighter). I narrowly prefer the Steinway sound (in the recording) and generally prefer her first recording.


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> I just listened to her Humoreske (Schumann) - if her Bach isn't a lot better than this Schumann she's seriously overhyped.


I am not aware of anyone "hyping" her. I enjoy her Bach recordings and based the fact that Hyperion continues to produce her recordings of Bach and others, a lot of other people must be enjoying them.


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## Mandryka

Baron Scarpia said:


> I am not aware of anyone "hyping" her.


Duh, I'll give you a clue, why do you think they're called Hyperion?



Baron Scarpia said:


> I am not aware of anyone "hyping" her. I enjoy her Bach recordings and based the fact that Hyperion continues to produce her recordings of Bach and others, a lot of other people must be enjoying them.


Double duh. People buy the recordings because they win prizes, get played on radio, get enthusiastic reviews. I.e. hype.


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## Itullian

I have all of her Bach recordings and enjoy them very much.
Haven't heard her other recordings as of yet.


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## jegreenwood

Baron Scarpia said:


> I've only heard her in recordings so it is really impossible to say anything definitive about the sound of the instrument, since the engineering of the recording can have a significant influence.
> 
> But based on recent listening to her first (Steinway) and second (Fazoli) Goldberg Varations, the Fazoli sounded a bit tubby to me (not brighter). I narrowly prefer the Steinway sound (in the recording) and generally prefer her first recording.


I've heard her in concert with the Fazioli three times, always Bach. This article excerpt from Pianobuyer pretty much captures my experience.

Indeed, the Faziolis' consistency of clarity, sustain, and brilliance was addicting. But for me, there was a downside: I felt that the bass had an almost bright tinge, similar in sound to the middle or treble registers, such that it lacked a degree of depth, orchestral power, and even warmth found in many New York Steinways. Perhaps this was a tradeoff necessary to achieving its incredible upper registers, but in any case, it was particularly true of the F212. As I ran through passages of Liszt's Sonata in B Minor, the octaves of his Funérailles, and Stravinsky's Pétrouchka, I sometimes wished for a warmer or more resonant bass from the F212. Comparing the F212 and F228, there could be no denying that the F228 had more range and resonance in its bass; after all, in the world of pianos, bigger often means better bass. But while the sound of the Faziolis was always beautiful, it was not always warm. Sometimes the tone felt too perfect - but then, I was born and raised on a different sound. Metaphorically speaking, I prefer the somewhat more complex and romantic interpretations of Cliburn to the insightful clarity of Pollini; I always have and I always will.

I also heard her in dialog with Ian McEwan. In his novel _Saturday_, the main character chooses to listen to Hewitt's _Goldberg Variations_ over Gould's while performing surgery. Later she gave him advice regarding the piano-playing of the Justice in the novel _The Children's Act_. Not sure if she helped with the recent film adaptation.


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## Luchesi

We need (I need) a new thread (or in here) on how to evaluate a Bach player of Hewitt's generation and style. 

What are the different approaches? How do listening connoisseurs to it for their own collecting? 

What's the minimum number of recordings you need to have lived with? What playing experience is required?

How reliable is any method or set of criteria? I mean, do the ratings change with the passage of time?

How would a group of world-class pianists do it? 'Just personal preferences or would they have logical reasons to offer?


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> Duh, I'll give you a clue, why do you think they're called Hyperion?


Named after the Titan?



> Double duh. People buy the recordings because they win prizes, get played on radio, get enthusiastic reviews. I.e. hype.


I don't know what prizes she has won, I don't listen to classical music on the radio, and I don't read reviews (not since 1990, anyway). I got her WTC I when it was a new release because, probably because I saw it on a new release list and Hyperion was a favorite label of mine at the time. I got each subsequent release because I enjoyed the previous. What I value about her is a non-intrusive style of performance that values clarity and renders the harpsichord music on a modern piano in a way which respects the spirit of the music.

I don't know why she is popular, but I know why I like her recordings.


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## Mandryka

Luchesi said:


> What are the different approaches?


How about this for a shot at doing this.

There are "melody pianists" - pianists who make the music sound as though there's a top melody at all times, with other voices subsidiary, or maybe in some sort of antiphonic roll. Which voice has the important melody may change, but there's always one which is in the lead roll.

And there's "counterpoint pianists", where the several voices are equally important, and the interest comes from the drama of tension and release among the voices.

Just thinking of Art of Fugue, Hewitt seems to me to be inclined towards the melody end of the spectrum, Walter Riemer less so.



Luchesi said:


> We need (I need) a new thread (or in here) on how to evaluate a Bach player of Hewitt's generation and style.


Again a shot at doing this.

I think the concept of truthfulness to the music is important. Have they translated the score into sound correctly? Or is what they're doing a self indulgent lie?


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> Just thinking of Art of Fugue, Hewitt seems to me to be inclined towards the melody end of the spectrum, Walter Riemer less so.


That's one of her Bach recordings I have not listened to yet, but as applied to her other recordings, I couldn't disagree more.


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## Mandryka

Baron Scarpia said:


> That's one of her Bach recordings I have not listened to yet, but as applied to her other recordings, I couldn't disagree more.


You could be correct, I just played a bit of her AoF as I was typing that's all.


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## philoctetes

Wow, two keyboards at once...


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> You could be correct, I just played a bit of her AoF as I was typing that's all.


I would not gainsay whatever conclusion you reach about the quality of Angela Hewitt's playing. But when you start talking about her success being due to "hype" you are more or less explicitly insulting those who enjoy her recordings or performances. I do not consider myself a dimwit who allows his taste to be dictated by "hype." I have listened to many performers of Bach, a subset of those give me pleasure, and Angela Hewitt has a high position in that subset.


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## Mandryka

Baron Scarpia said:


> I would not gainsay whatever conclusion you reach about the quality of Angela Hewitt's playing. But when you start talking about her success being due to "hype" you are more or less explicitly insulting those who enjoy her recordings or performances. I do not consider myself a dimwit who allows his taste to be dictated by "hype." I have listened to many performers of Bach, a subset of those give me pleasure, and Angela Hewitt has a high position in that subset.


I wouldn't underestimate the importance of marketing for influencing people's judgements about music, I'm sure I'm not immune.


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> I wouldn't underestimate the importance of marketing for influencing people's judgements about music, I'm sure I'm not immune.


They certainly have a good chance of influencing me to buy one. But they have relatively little influence over whether I buy another. I bought one Glen Gould CD. It stopped there.


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## Bulldog

Mandryka said:


> I wouldn't underestimate the importance of marketing for influencing people's judgements about music, I'm sure I'm not immune.


I think you are overestimating marketing's influence on serious classical music enthusiasts who are members of TC.


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## DavidA

I'm going to see the lady tomorrow night playing Bach WTC book 2


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## Mandryka

Bulldog said:


> I think you are overestimating marketing's influence on serious classical music enthusiasts who are members of TC.


Well there's some evidence to support my position. The way that serious critics seem to have been so influenced by the Hatto back story hype -- here's something on it

http://ecclesiastes911.net/music_critics_trash_and_praiese_the_same_record/

And think of the way you called a recording of Davidsbundlertanze "down and dirty" when you thought it was by Backhaus -- adjectives which you never applied to Gieseking's recording as far as I know, even though they're identical.

I'm not saying this to belittle you (on the contrary, I respect and value what you have to say, very much so) or indeed Tom Deacon or Bryce Morrison (both of whom I respect and value too) -- I just want to show how even our judgements -- serious classical music listeners all of us -- are susceptible to influence.

Just to make my own position clear, I am a marketing professional and I've made my living from it for years. Of course you could say that this clouds my judgement, but I don't think so . . .


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## DavidA

Mandryka said:


> Well there's some evidence to support my position. The way that serious critics seem to have been so influenced by the Hatto back story hype -- here's something on it
> 
> http://ecclesiastes911.net/music_critics_trash_and_praiese_the_same_record/
> 
> And think of the way you called a recording of Davidsbundlertanze "down and dirty" when you thought it was by Backhaus -- adjectives which you never applied to Gieseking's recording as far as I know, even though they're identical.
> 
> I'm not saying this to belittle you (on the contrary, I respect and value what you have to say, very much so) or indeed Tom Deacon or Bryce Morrison (both of whom I respect and value too) -- I just want to show how even our judgements -- serious classical music listeners all of us -- are susceptible to influence.
> 
> Just to make my own position clear, I am a marketing professional and I've made my living from it for years. Of course you could say that this clouds my judgement, but I don't think so . . .


When the Hatto scandal broke I did write to the Gramophone editor asking if some of his critics would be considering their position. Interesting quiz at the bottom of the link to see if you can tell the famous musician from the unknown. Wonder how the 'experts' would do at it!


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## Guest

Mandryka said:


> Well there's some evidence to support my position. The way that serious critics seem to have been so influenced by the Hatto back story hype -- here's something on it
> 
> http://ecclesiastes911.net/music_critics_trash_and_praiese_the_same_record/
> 
> And think of the way you called a recording of Davidsbundlertanze "down and dirty" when you thought it was by Backhaus -- adjectives which you never applied to Gieseking's recording as far as I know, even though they're identical.
> 
> I'm not saying this to belittle you (on the contrary, I respect and value what you have to say, very much so) or indeed Tom Deacon or Bryce Morrison (both of whom I respect and value too) -- I just want to show how even our judgements -- serious classical music listeners all of us -- are susceptible to influence.
> 
> Just to make my own position clear, I am a marketing professional and I've made my living from it for years. Of course you could say that this clouds my judgement, but I don't think so . . .


Both Deacon and Morrison are in the business of marketing music, and all your Hatto anecdote shows is that the music marketing business can produce two different marketing narratives for the same recording. So what? As far as I can see, the entire "Hatto" controversy is something that existed only within the music marketing universe. I've only seen the controversy mentioned, I've never seen anyone mention any of her supposed recordings in my decades of frequenting these discussions boards.

As far as it concerns me, the only "marketing" of Hewitt is the fact that her recordings appear on the Hyperion label. That says to me that she has attained a certain level of professionalism and is worth considering. It would be the same if her recordings appeared on Chandos, Naive (or whatever they call it after the latest bankruptcy) BIS, cpo, MDG, etc. It is an objective fact that her technique is at a high level. Whether her aesthetic appeals to me is up to my judgement. Often I try an artist on one of the respective labels and find it is not for me. When I tried Hewitt, I was attracted.

What you don't seem to realize is that marketing mostly works when there are many products that are basically indistinguishable. Toothpaste, or cigarettes, for instance. My father did marketing research and you would not believe how much of the business was cigarettes. You buy one brand if you fancy yourself a cowboy, another a stylish hipster. It is the same tobacco processed in the same way in the same paper wrapper that will kill you the same way. I don't need marketing copy to tell me if I like Bach's WTC played by Leonhardt or Richter.

I'm sure I have prejudices, but they are mainly based on my own prior experience with the artist. If I approach Karajan, Harnoncourt, Solti, Rattle with preconceptions it is based on the fact I have heard a lot of their prior work and have decided what I think of them as performers. I have to overcome a lot of internal inertia to admit to myself that a Harnoncourt recording is a turd (Bartok Music for Strings, Precussion and Celesa), or a Rattle recording is superb and the best representation of a piece I have heard (Schoenberg Chamber Symphony #1). Marketing has nothing to do with it.


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## Bulldog

Mandryka said:


> And think of the way you called a recording of Davidsbundlertanze "down and dirty" when you thought it was by Backhaus -- adjectives which you never applied to Gieseking's recording as far as I know, even though they're identical.


I had no particular opinion of Backhaus before I listened to that recording. Actually, I had never heard anything by him. My conclusions were only based on my listening experience.

As for Gieseking's recording, I did refer to him as a "wild man" in Davidsbundlertanze.

Since marketing/hype had nothing to do with my view of either artist, I do believe you're barking up the wrong tree. If anything, I tend to smell a rat when the hype is big-time.

I'll certainly admit that I can be influenced by marketing concerning a wide array of products, but music ain't one of them.


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## philoctetes

I'm one of those who wants to like harpsichords, but many of them have timbre that put me off. So I welcome pianists who can play baroque on piano effectively without sounding like Richter, Gould, or Horowitz. Marcelle Meyer is a good example....

I've heard Scarlatti by both Horowitz and Hewitt and know that I far prefer the latter, who sounds more like my old fave Dubravka Tomsic than anybody else I've heard. 

The market for keyboard players, soloists in general, is always open to hype. Hyperion has a number of pianists in their stable, recording under extended contracts, who owe more success to hype than Hewitt. 

In a way, Hyperion is the ECM of classical labels, with a polished cultural identity, product image, and sonic values of its own. Never excessive, tastefully Brit, flirting with blandness. And like ECM the approach pays off sometimes, and actually creates a synergy between artist, music, and product.

As for emphasizing certain lines or patterns in the music, well, that's what musicians do, or so I thought, and that's why we keep buying music and going to concerts. Seems this is especially the art of being a successful soloist, that you can play how you want and it doesn't kill your career. Artistic immunity is a reward for hard work. 

Nobody paid me to write that, and no hype was standing over my shoulder.


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## Mandryka

Bulldog said:


> I'll certainly admit that I can be influenced by marketing concerning a wide array of products, but music ain't one of them.


You may be right of course, I am with wine, which I guess is a bit like music (complex product with a culture of connoisseurship etc)


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## Mandryka

philoctetes said:


> The market for keyboard players, soloists in general, is always open to hype. Hyperion has a number of pianists in their stable, recording under extended contracts, who owe more success to hype than Hewitt.


If Hamelin ever reads that I can see his eyes roll -- he once said that he thought that Hewitt got too much of the Hyperion PR budget -- which gave her a star status which (at the time, 10 years ago now) he felt he merited but was unable to grasp.



philoctetes said:


> The market for keyboard players, soloists in general, is always open to hype. Hyperion has a number of pianists in their stable, recording under extended contracts, who owe more success to hype than Hewitt.


The market for piano music seems really interesting because it seems close to the world of opera, that's to say there are a handful of pianists who have big budget glamour and a sort of groupie fan base. I've not studied the market by the way, but my intuition is that piano is a real good area for using marketing to boost revenue.


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## philoctetes

Mandryka said:


> If Hamelin ever reads that I can see his eyes roll -- he once said that he thought that Hewitt got too much of the Hyperion PR budget -- which gave her a star status which (at the time, 10 years ago now) he felt he merited but was unable to grasp.


Let em roll. That stuff is about egos. Their repertory hardly overlaps at all.

Weren't you ripping Hamelin's Feldman not long ago? Or did you change your mind about that too?


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## Guest

philoctetes said:


> In a way, Hyperion is the ECM of classical labels, with a polished cultural identity, product image, and sonic values of its own. Never excessive, tastefully Brit, flirting with blandness. And like ECM the approach pays off sometimes, and actually creates a synergy between artist, music, and product.


You are right about Hyperion, which has a distinct brand identity. "Flirting with blandness" captures it perfectly. 

It has something to do with the sonic values (always a natural concerto hall perspective, never an in-your-face sound stage) and a stable of artists who seem to have in common a certain sense of decorum. The Alfred Brendel type.


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## philoctetes

"the Alfred Brendel type"

I wouldn't say that about the Florestan Trio, they are more like the von Karajan of piano trios... everything sounds the same, hard, fast, and loud, a different kind of blandness. Same for Domus and Takacs...

I've had good luck with the Nash Ensemble, going back to the CDR stuff, but I guess I can tolerate their "sameness" a bit more, they make up for it with variety of repertory and ensemble mix...


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## KenOC

Baron Scarpia said:


> ...and a stable of artists who seem to have in common a certain sense of decorum. The Alfred Brendel type.


Really? I prefer the "L"s, people like Liszt or Litolff. The latter lived a wild life, running from country to country and changing wives more often than some people change their underwear. He taught piano to Hans von Bulow and once escaped prison with the help of the jailer's daughter.

Now _there's _a musician with star power! Too bad all of his music is forgotten except for one movement, and even that is often mistaken for Saint-Saens by casual listeners.


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## philoctetes

It's the V's for me. Varese, Villa-Lobos, and of course, the long-forgotten Vaughan Otter,,,


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## Guest

philoctetes said:


> "the Alfred Brendel type"
> 
> I wouldn't say that about the Florestan Trio, they are more like the von Karajan of piano trios... everything sounds the same, hard, fast, and loud, a different kind of blandness. Same for Domus and Takacs...
> 
> I've had good luck with the Nash Ensemble, going back to the CDR stuff, but I guess I can tolerate their "sameness" a bit more, they make up for it with variety of repertory and ensemble mix...


I'll overlook the Karajan dis'.

The Florestan personifies Hyperion, but I would not have characterized them as "hard, fast and loud." I mainly like them for Susan Tomes, but not in everything. Their Brahms is my favorite, but I didn't like the Faure much (when she called it Domus), tend to like the Mozart. Also the Raphael Ensemble, the epitome of Hyperion. And of course Hamelin. I don't know what he's complaining about. He's their Hewitt of romantic piano music.


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## philoctetes

I like the Raphael too, it's a great corner of the repertory and they do it well.

I also agree on the Florestan's Brahms, they are surprisingly gentle with it. Mozart's not bad either. Exceptions are the rule today.

I think it's common with British performance, a little soft with Germanic stuff, and just off-base with French music much of the time. 

Due to the low prices on Hyperion and Helios from Berkshire Record Outlet, I've ordered a lot of their duds... a bit like buying from Naxos, they have a rather low expected shelf life...


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## starthrower

Which of her WTC recordings is the one to listen to? The old one is half the price. So far I haven't been able to decide on any modern recording, so I stick with Gould and Richter.


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## Border Collie

starthrower said:


> Which of her WTC recordings is the one to listen to? The old one is half the price. So far I haven't been able to decide on any modern recording, so I stick with Gould and Richter.


Both! Love Hewitt. And, of course, Gould.


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## DavidA

Baron Scarpia said:


> You are right about Hyperion, which has a distinct brand identity. *"Flirting with blandness" captures it perfectly.*
> 
> It has something to do with the sonic values (always a natural concerto hall perspective, never an in-your-face sound stage) and a stable of artists who seem to have in common a certain sense of decorum. The Alfred Brendel type.


Sorry but when you look at Hyperion's catalogue that is not right


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## DavidA

philoctetes said:


> "the Alfred Brendel type"
> 
> I wouldn't say that about the Florestan Trio*, they are more like the von Karajan of piano trios... everything sounds the same, hard, fast, and loud, a different kind of blandness*. Same for Domus and Takacs...
> 
> I've had good luck with the Nash Ensemble, going back to the CDR stuff, but I guess I can tolerate their "sameness" a bit more, they make up for it with variety of repertory and ensemble mix...


I just can't believe some of these comments. I think you have been reading too many tin eared critics


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## DavidA

Border Collie said:


> Both! Love Hewitt. And, of course, Gould.


We heard Hewitt in concert play the WTC book 2. Good evening although just what JSB would have made of a hall of people listening to the whole of book 2 at one go can only be imagined. He might have thought we were crazy! Must confess that evening with the genius of Bach it did drag a bit towards the end. Hewitt gives perfectly good and convincing performances although Gould was something special. His recording contains the most perverse and the most brilliant interpretations. Apparently in the studio he would play the piece many different ways then pick the one he wanted. So there may be another complete set or two of WTC if Columbia kept the tapes!


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## starthrower

DavidA said:


> Gould was something special. His recording contains the most perverse and the most brilliant interpretations. Apparently in the studio he would play the piece many different ways then pick the one he wanted. So there may be another complete set or two of WTC if Columbia kept the tapes!


I've watched some of the studio films on YouTube. He just kept doing take after take of a section until it sounded right to him. The editing must have been quite a laborious task. I'm still kicking myself for not buying the Glenn Gould On Television DVD set a few years ago when Presto had it on sale for 39 dollars.


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## perdido34

I find Hewitt a more interesting musician in music other than Bach. Her complete Ravel set and the Debussy disc are outstanding, as is the Bach Transcriptions CD.


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