# How Do Performers Make Their Money



## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

In general, not necessarily just classical performers, how do performers make their money in this day and age. At one time, I believe performers made money off every album sold plus they made more money by live appearances.

Now, I don't know. I assume they still make money off of live appearances but does Spotify, etc., pay them each time some streams a song? What about Youtube? Does anyone get paid (other than Youtube) when someone watches a video?

Just trying to catch up in this new music world we live in.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

haydnguy said:


> In general, not necessarily just classical performers, how do performers make their money in this day and age. At one time, I believe performers made money off every album sold plus they made more money by live appearances.
> 
> Now, I don't know. I assume they still make money off of live appearances but does Spotify, etc., pay them each time some streams a song? What about Youtube? Does anyone get paid (other than Youtube) when someone watches a video?
> 
> Just trying to catch up in this new music world we live in.


I believe that very few instrumental performers have a contract which lets them earn enough money to live well off recordings. In Europe at least, musicians can make money through playing in orchestral concerts or singing in operas, and by teaching.

People in the UK say that, in early music at least, the last person who could live from recordings revenue was Christopher Hogwood.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I believe that the musicians making money today are the soloists sought after by orchestras for live performances. Other than that, slim pickin's. Even a pianist as fine as Stewart Goodyear finds his complete Beethoven cycle going for under $10 on the Internet. You can bet that's not paying his rent. The days of the major labels making soloists rich seems to have passed.

The streaming services are hardly worth talking about.

It used to be different. In 1958 Columbia star organist E. Power Biggs was wealthy enough to commission a 33-rank Flentrop organ to be built in Harvard's Busch Hall, where he played and recorded until his death in 1977. The instrument survives and is still played, although the business model of those days seems to have gone the way of all flesh.​


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

Orchestral musicians have their own incomes for playing all year round, plus many musicians teach on top of that.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

They get a very small royalty when one of their tracks is streamed. It is not generally very lucrative, I believe. It is sometimes referred to as the "river of nickels" model, although I think the typical royalty is a lot less than a nickel. I remember reading a profile of a classically trained cellist who was something of a new-age star on a streaming service, who still found in impossible to live on.

I find it regrettable that in the new business model for music it is the tech companies like Apple, Spotify, etc, that prosper while the artists find it more difficult to earn.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

I know a little - as I had dealings with various performers who were also music teachers.

Those at the top - from what I understand, like Benedetti - seem to make enough out of performing and royalties - so dont teach. Though many classical performers will want to teach eventually - even if they dont need the money.

I knew one violinist - sadly now deceased - who had recorded 50 CDs with Chandos - (some of you may guess who she is) and she had cheques taped to her study wall. What are those? I asked once. She laughed - those are my yearly royalty cheques from Chandos. The cheques were ranging from £30 to about £80. I was flabbergasted. She did explain she was paid a flat fee for each recording plus royalties. Chandos were also not high rollers like DG or Decca - they paid her travel to recording venues - bus fare only. Cheapskates.

She did well out of performing while she had the work but needed a conservatoire position and private tuition to really make the whole thing pay. She taught up until the last year of her life.

So I think its a combination of performing while they can plus tuition. Tuition does pay well - some hot shot teachers in high demand can command £150 an hour for anyone who is stupid enough to pay it.

But I think all but a small number probably don't make that much from royalties as I have indicated.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

My son is a professional musician though pop rather than classical. He prays in various bands, does session work and teaches. He says one has to have a wide portfolio to make a living, it is a game with many players bit few winners


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

When Karajan was in charge of the BPO the musicians were paid by the state and in addition their salaries were doubled by the royalties enormous sales from Karajan's recordings. When HvK resigned and switched to the VPO as his recording orchestra, they certainly felt the draft, as musicians do today when so little recording is done by the majors of classical music. The days when you could bake a good living by just playing are gone.


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## haydnguy (Oct 13, 2008)

Probably about a year ago (maybe not quite that long) I heard that a performer that we would all recognize had started teaching. 

When I heard that I thought we were in trouble because if SHE can't make a decent living with CD's and performances, I don't know what else to do. She might have been one that got offered a big salary to teach.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

haydnguy said:


> Probably about a year ago (maybe not quite that long) I heard that a performer that we would all recognize had started teaching.
> 
> When I heard that I thought we were in trouble because if SHE can't make a decent living with CD's and performances, I don't know what else to do. She might have been one that got offered a big salary to teach.


I think most musicians did some teaching. I know Lang Lang has his own school. There are exceptions. Sviatoslav Richter gated teaching and avoided it in spite of pressure from the then communist state officials. When he was asked to teach he protested, "I need someone to teach me!"


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

DavidA said:


> My son is a professional musician though pop rather than classical. *He prays in various bands*, does session work and teaches. He says one has to have a wide portfolio to make a living, it is a game with many players bit few winners


Excellent - freedom of religeon - I like it.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2018)

If you are talking about classical, you can decide incomes are too high or too low, depending on how you come at it. A rank and file musician in a professional orchestra probably makes six figures. A principal in a big orchestra may make $250,000. That's comfortable, obviously. But you might say that is low given how much training they have and how rare their level of skill is. On the other hand, they are working in a money-loosing enterprise that cannot generate enough revenue to support itself. If it weren't for various forms of subsidy they'd be out of business. From that point of view you might say they are overpaid. There is the problem that the big names get very high compensation at the expense of rank and file (which seems to be the overriding theme in our economy). The same arguments apply.


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## Euler (Dec 3, 2017)

Baron Scarpia said:


> If you are talking about classical, you can decide incomes are too high or too low, depending on how you come at it. A rank and file musician in a professional orchestra probably makes six figures.


This reminds me of the disparity between US and UK wages. In the UK a string player in top orchestras might earn around £30,000 (about $40,000). Perhaps a bit more in Southern England and a bit less elsewhere. In smaller orchestras you really need a second source of income. As well as the mentioned teaching in academia or tutoring kids you might give workshops, do outreach work, or simply moonlight in a non-musical job. For Brits at least it's a dreadful trade if you worship mammon.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

> How much does a Musician make in the United States?
> Average Musician Yearly Salary in the United States
> Musicians earn an average yearly salary of $41,217. Salaries typically start from $10,400 and go up to $104,000.


From https://www.sokanu.com/careers/musician/salary/

In 2012 we had



> Starting base: $28,000 - $143,000
> Example: $36,594 - Alabama Symphony
> (starting)
> $132,028 - Boston Symphony Orchestra
> (starting)


From http://www.berklee.edu/pdf/pdf/studentlife/Music_Salary_Guide.pdf

In the UK we learn



> Although rank-and-file members of the BBC Philharmonic or City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra are paid about £30,000 a year, wages have stagnated as funding cuts take hold.


From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-43976334

In Germany it's like this



> Berliner Philharmoniker pays a monthly salary of €8,500 for an ensemble player (a principal earns €9,770+)
> 
> Leipzig Gewandhausorchester: €5,700 (principal €1,400)
> 
> ...


https://slippedisc.com/2018/03/what-musicians-earn-in-german-orchestras/


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## Bluecrab (Jun 24, 2014)

stomanek said:


> Excellent - freedom of religeon - I like it.


What is "religeon"? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Baron Scarpia said:


> If you are talking about classical, you can decide incomes are too high or too low, depending on how you come at it. A rank and file musician in a professional orchestra probably makes six figures. A principal in a big orchestra may make $250,000. That's comfortable, obviously. But you might say that is low given how much training they have and how rare their level of skill is. On the other hand, they are working in a money-loosing enterprise that cannot generate enough revenue to support itself. If it weren't for various forms of subsidy they'd be out of business. From that point of view you might say they are overpaid. There is the problem that the big names get very high compensation at the expense of rank and file (which seems to be the overriding theme in our economy). The same arguments apply.


I have read that only the elite principle 1st violin in top american orchestras make that kind of money.

In Britain the pay is pitiful.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

stomanek said:


> I have read that only the elite principle 1st violin in top american orchestras make that kind of money.
> 
> In Britain the pay is pitiful.


In the US in 2011, the musician "base" salary set by contract ranged up into the $120,000 area, though only six or seven orchestras paid this well. Some principals, by virtue of skill or longevity, may earn twice this amount of more. The concertmaster is a special case because he or she is the "leader" or the orchestra and often stands in the place of the conductor. I have seen one case where the concertmaster was paid more than the conductor.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

The musicians in the major orchestras are on salary, set by negotiated contract with the orchestra management. there will be a minimum weekly salary as the base rate....seniority, position [principal, etc] will increase the base rate, often quite substantially...also there may be separate provisions for broadcast, recording etc....these factors will vary from one orchestra to another...

Free-lance musicians are usually paid on a "per service" basis - ie - X$/performance; Y$/rehearsal...there may or may not be additional allowances for mileage and/or cartage [large instruments]....extra, on-call musicians for larger orchestras may also be paid on a per service basis...these musicians' positions would not be covered under the negotiated contract, which usually stipulates the specific positions to be included.

At present, the highest paid orchestras in the US are ChicagoSO, Los AngelesPO and SanFranciscoSO, then BostonSO and NYPO...
the most recent contract figures are from 2016-17 season, so new contracts have been, or are being. negotiated since then, so the figures are constantly changing...minimum yearly salaries in the top five orchestras range from c $160,000/year to 143,000/year...Cleveland, Philadelphia, NationalSO, Minnesota, MetOpera are all over 100,000/year...

The status of royalties and reimbursements has changed drastically since the beginning of the digital age....it used to be quite straight forward - musicians received royalties for each LP or tape sold thru commercial distribution....with the whole digital revolution, things have changed, widespread piracy, illegal, or black market distribution, etc have been major factors..add to that an underlying, and most annoying, presumption by much of the public that they are somehow entitled to "free" music...that performers shouldn't earn anything thru their creative efforts, that the public should be free to acquire any and all recordings, performance reproductions free of charge. 
There have been all sorts of lawsuits, and legislative action to address this situation, and I'm not really up on the present state of affairs...the union trade paper always has articles re current developments on this subject.


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