# Official SeattleOperaFan Contest Discussion



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy suggested this. Here you can ask for a specific contests or artists. If we are in the middle of a contest you can suggest additional contestants for that contest here. I think it works better here than in the contest thread. I will try my best . I am discovering artists all the time from your comments and am always changing the contests and upgrading them. I have over 600 future contest arias lined up but would like this to continue as long as possible as it builds community from my experience. John


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

I've offered to once again be of assistance to John in his attempts to provide the kinds of contests that the players actually wish to play.

But we're only as good as the information that we have to work with - If an aria is chosen and suggestions are requested, provide us with as many specifics as you can - artist(s), conductors, years recorded and which version is preferable, venue location, or whatever else may be of assistance.

Most important factor of all - pairing a performer with a specific conductor - If you can provide just that it will help us enormously - Asking for Janowitz with Karajan or Schwartzkopf with Szell can save hours of search time and it helps us to narrow down the endless selections which are offered up as search results. If a performer recorded an aria with the same conductor twice - once in one location and the second in another - or one which is live with the second a studio recital - we need to know that also.

Not everything is available as a label authorized release - There are times when the only option available is a fan recording - Some of which are really quite good - Most of which are less than ideal - We understand the desire to emphasize performance over recording quality and with your assistance, we will be able to find the best of what is available.

One last note - It's easier for us to find what you're looking for merely by posting the names of the arias, artists, and conductors rather than using this thread to post the actual videos which can be a nightmare to navigate through.

And remember, it's called "The Official SeattleOperaFan Discussion Thread" for a reason - He's the one with the talent... Me? - I'm pretty much just eye-candy and wise-cracks -


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I cannot find an official version of this for the next 4LS contest but this is the best I can find in a new digital remaster version.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I cannot find an official version of this for the next 4LS contest but this is the best I can find in a new digital remaster version.












Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nM6fvKI1fbN4UAG6NMYuVZ3xhdOj_vIuU


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Link to label authorized complete recording -
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nM6fvKI1fbN4UAG6NMYuVZ3xhdOj_vIuU


Youtube can be like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes. Thanks.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Link to label authorized complete recording -
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nM6fvKI1fbN4UAG6NMYuVZ3xhdOj_vIuU






 I think this will help me.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

YouTube videos contain a field for tags. But those tags do very little, if anything at all, for searches. It is hard to know, then, what those tags are for. Searches on YT work on the wording entered in titles and, to a lesser degree, in the description field. The more words one enters in a search that match what exists in the title and description fields the better the results.


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## ALT (Mar 1, 2021)

The other thing to keep in mind is that many YT uploads deliberately lack important information and details that could make them prone for removal by any number of actors.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I think this will help me.


What helped the most really was being able to add a performer name and conductor to the aria title - With those three in hand, there isn't much that we wouldn't be able to find - It requires posting the proposed aria and requesting suggestions for performers paired with conductors. You can balance your curated selections with "listener requests".


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

ALT said:


> YouTube videos contain a field for tags. But those tags do very little, if anything at all, for searches. It is hard to know, then, what those tags are for. Searches on YT work on the wording entered in titles and, to a lesser degree, in the description field. The more words one enters in a search that match what exists in the title and description fields the better the results.


Being able to add a named performer and conductor (by request of the listeners) to the aria made all the difference in the world - Up to this point, the search process consisted of typing in the aria and then trying to wade through several hundred search results in the hope that we would uncover something of value.

Having the players submit listener requests with specific performers paired with conductors considerably lessens the "surprise factor" of the contest but by adding Szell to Schwartzkopf and Karajan to Janowitz it allowed me to find the requested arias in about 5 minutes.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Sometimes the same aria can be named two different things. Lady Macbeth's _Una macchia e qui tut'ora _is also known as the _Sleepwalking Scene_, for instance.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> also known as the _Sleepwalking Scene_, for instance.


Isn't the latter more like an informal/casual name of the aria? In academic articles or commercial recordings, they wouldn't use that.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

hammeredklavier said:


> Isn't the latter more like an informal/casual name of the aria? In academic articles or commercial recordings, they wouldn't use that.


Is this a formal or an academic venue?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

_Una macchia è qui tutt’ora _will always get you the Sleepwalking Scene from *Macbeth *- keep in mind that there’s also a scene where the heroine sleepwalks in *La Sonnambula*! Though it’s not necessarily called the “Sleepwalking Scene” in general,


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I have my favourite blog, which often lists discografies of particular operas. It reviews the commercial recordings of complete operas, so it is sometimes not good for the individual arias. But if somebody is in danger of not knowing, e.g., notable interprets of Eleazar in La Juive, this is the place to start. The site misses a search engine, but I use google. So, for La juive, I type into google "basiaconfuoco La juive" and get this: La Juive, discography.

Other people here recommend Ralph Moore's opera survey, which is more systematic: Ralph Moore Recorded Opera Surveys

Obviously, asking people here at Talk Classical is also a good strategy  . Only, the surprise effect has been mentioned, so...


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon has a nice blog.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Tsaraslondon has a nice blog.


Thank you.

www.tsaraslondon.com if anyone's interested. I haven't written anything for it since April, though.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

@Seattleoperafan you got me officially addicted to Vier letzte Lieder !


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> @Seattleoperafan you got me officially addicted to Vier letzte Lieder !


Next stop is Salome.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> @Seattleoperafan you got me officially addicted to Vier letzte Lieder !


Wait till you hear the next round!!!!!!! So glad. I think it is on another level for many people. That is why people are so passionate discussing it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Next stop is Salome.


I would love to do a contest with Salome but anything like an aria is too long. The scene with the head can be incredible in with the right set of lungs but is longer than the Immolation Scene. Nilsson, Weltisch, and Caballe are fabulous. I LOVE Jessye Norman just for the sound of her glorious opulent dark voice in the role but of course it is way too much a Herodias type of voice to be the best for anyone but me 🤣


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> @Seattleoperafan you got me officially addicted to Vier letzte Lieder !


I think I have played Jessye Norman singing Fruhling many hundreds of times! Not joking. Only Callas big aria in Armida have I played more.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

In my latest Ah Non Giunge contest, and in future contests I I like to start at a specific point as in this instance the whole scene is too long or more frequently certain artists only record the cabelleta. Intially I could cue up scenes but I can't now . i am going back in and list in BOLD only to consider the cabelleta in this contest. I included the times but both of the first critiques ignored my notation. Should I just dispense with trying to get people to go to a certain point to start or how can I make it more plain? I know I should consider all parts of an opera to be of equal importance but I play favorites.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> In my latest Ah Non Giunge contest, and in future contests I I like to start at a specific point as in this instance the whole scene is too long or more frequently certain artists only record the cabelleta. Intially I could cue up scenes but I can't now . i am going back in and list in BOLD only to consider the cabelleta in this contest. I included the times but both of the first critiques ignored my notation. Should I just dispense with trying to get people to go to a certain point to start or how can I make it more plain? I know I should consider all parts of an opera to be of equal importance but I play favorites.


Well you can't make people read what you said. I'd just carry on as you are. Some will note your instructions and do as you say, some will ignore them, and some won't even read them. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Cuing works for me - Just use the usual method - Stop the video at the point where you want it to start, click on "Share", check the box which reads "Start at (time) and then click on "Copy" and just paste it right into the thread.

Try both of these videos and you should see that they cue exactly at the marks you requested.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

It took me less than a week to tire of working for free - "Thanks don't fill the banks" - and so I've decided to sell authentic Shaughnessy merchandise on these threads -

Kind of like being the "Official Sponsor" of the SeattleOperaFan Contests - except he doesn't get a cut of the action.

October's "Deal of the Month" - Beautiful Authentic "Shaughnessy Shamrock" T-Shirt - 29.95 USD - Size XXL Only - Hand wash only - Do not wash with other garments as colors run faster than Usain Bolt.

Makes for a great Christmas gift! - Limited quantities (until I print up more) - Price does not include S & H (19.95 USD)


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This is a fantastic idea! (The thread, not the hideous shamrock shirt!)

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Cuing works for me - Just use the usual method - Stop the video at the point where you want it to start, click on "Share", check the box which reads "Start at (time) and then click on "Copy" and just paste it right into the thread.
> 
> Try both of these videos and you should see that they cue exactly at the marks you requested.


I tried it again with share from specific point but it would not work.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

*please start at 10:20*
I think if I do that people might notice.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Shaughnessy said:


> It took me less than a week to tire of working for free - "Thanks don't fill the banks" - and so I've decided to sell authentic Shaughnessy merchandise on these threads -
> 
> Kind of like being the "Official Sponsor" of the SeattleOperaFan Contests - except he doesn't get a cut of the action.
> 
> ...


How much does it cost to have you not send me one? Better still, I can think of a few people who have 'earned' one


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Becca said:


> *How much does it cost to have you not send me one?* Better still, I can think of a few people who have 'earned' one


It's kind of funny that you should mention that... Right now I'm in negotiations with VerticalScope (the forum's relatively new owners) in regards to their "Premium Membership" plan - For 19.95 USD a year, in addition to all of the regular largely imaginary benefits of being a "Premium Member" - along with the status enhancing "Shaughnessy Shamrock" on the bottom right corner of your avatar - Look to the left to see mine for an example - a complimentary lifetime (or for one year, whichever comes sooner) membership in the "Shaughnessy Fan Club" will automatically be included - and for only an additional 20.00 USD - which goes right into my pocket - you can permanently (or for one year, whichever comes sooner) opt out. Either way, it's a "win-win" situation for both of us.

Perhaps I can interest you in this Authentic "Shaughnessy Coffee Mug" for only 9.95 USD or today's special 2 for 19.30 - Save a nickel on each! - Makes a great Christmas gift - Order now!


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I tried it again with share from specific point but it would not work.


I think you need to sign out of YouTube Premium in order to do this - That premium membership must have some sort of an identifier which prevents you from doing this - They don't want you to be able to copy and paste the Premium exclusive content and it's affecting more than just those Premium only videos..

Sign out of YouTube Premium - Do the standard "share" procedure with the cue set at the mark for each video - return to the forum - Edit your post with the "share" links - There is no other reason why it should work for me and not for you. (although I am Irish and while the Irish are indeed a magical people, I kind of doubt that magic is actually the reason why).


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I tried it again with share from specific point but it would not work.


If Shaughnessy is right and it has to do with the YT premium membership, you could try manually adding the time to the link by pasting "?t=60" to the end for one minute and so on.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> If Shaughnessy is right and it has to do with the YT premium membership, you could try manually adding the time to the link by pasting "?t=60" to the end for one minute and so on.






THAT WORKS. I will use Youtube not signed in on Firefox and it cues up. Shaughnessy ==== we need to find a way for you to meet Netrebko in person wearing something low cut.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> THAT WORKS. I will use Youtube not signed in on Firefox and it cues up. Shaughnessy ==== we need to find a way for you to meet Netrebko in person wearing something low cut.


I trust that there was not an implicit comma in that last statement


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Shaughnessy ==== we need to find a way for you to meet Netrebko in person wearing something low cut.


Something low cut ?

Like here ?


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> THAT WORKS. I will use Youtube not signed in on Firefox and it cues up. Shaughnessy ==== *we need to find a way for you to meet Netrebko in person wearing something low cut.*


How's this? - Too bold? - Not bold enough" - I want something that will say "You're going to get lucky tonight, but you're going to have to buy me dinner first... and maybe take me dancing afterwards"


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> Something low cut ?
> 
> Like here ?
> 
> View attachment 177040


Mein Gott! I believed this forum to be of high culture.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> Mein Gott! I believed this forum to be of high culture.


I know. I couldn't resist. Maybe the fate will punish me. I will become a president of Slovakia and somebody will blackmail me with the foto of Quechua backpack at the opera premiere.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Something low cut ?
> 
> Like here ?
> 
> View attachment 177040


Yikes! Even in Russia…


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

New stock to be added to the warehouse - These recordings seem particularly interesting and the quality is really quite good - 










Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nE7fe3RgyFpd6Maj8p2CrTSOJAvEENLLs













Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nFfUSltBwtbr7DSx4lPQMpSgjjc-b1M0M













Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_njX9NQJNPVapgWxGCWJEKb9gqay3fQOHU













Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_le2ISulbnhvB1C5axIDvBa7dyBoRm6xO0













Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nbHTzovurVtOqzbaHGsrU-FQTqDzic-FM













Link to label authorized complete recording -



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kp1_Cf_uPcxsI2gyOoUy4Zebh_I6pKNjE


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Yikes! Even in Russia…


Looks like a 1960 Communist party portrait.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Looks like a 1960 Communist party portrait.


Actually, I think she was making fun of herself, which is not bad, if you can do it sometimes.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am thinking of doing a contest on Turandot melting into love in Act 3. The part I can fit into 10 min or so is 85 % Turandot and only a little of Calaf. I think it is more fitting for a solo but technically two people sing. Sort of like Sempre Libera. What do you think? I really love the music though it is not really Puccini.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am thinking of doing a contest on Turandot melting into love in Act 3. The part I can fit into 10 min or so is 85 % Turandot and only a little of Calaf. I think it is more fitting for a solo but technically two people sing. Sort of like Sempre Libera. What do you think? I really love the music though it is not really Puccini.


I find all these contests interesting and only don't participate when life gets in the way. Classic go to Turandots would be Callas, Sutherland and Nilsson of course and I hope all those would be included along with some surprises to keep it interesting.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've just seen the latest contest (Siege de Corinth/Assedio di Corinto) and this is an aria I too love!

I'm sad it's just a single round though. Maybe you have already considered this and rejected the version by Gheorghiu (on her Casta Diva disc). Didonato also recorded it (on Colbran, the muse). I think June Anderson sang it too (but it would be listed under Maometto II the original Italian version of the opera). Jennifer Larmore recorded it in French.

The opera was originally written for Naples as Maometto II and then Rossini adapted if for Paris in French with the title Le siege de Corinth. It became normal to perform it in Italian translation (like Don Carlo and I vespri siciliani) as L'assedio di Corinto). Hence the different versions in different languages.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've just seen the latest contest (Siege de Corinth/Assedio di Corinto) and this is an aria I too love!
> 
> I'm sad it's just a single round though. Maybe you have already considered this and rejected the version by Gheorghiu (on her Casta Diva disc). Didonato also recorded it (on Colbran, the muse). I think June Anderson sang it too (but it would be listed under Maometto II the original Italian version of the opera). Jennifer Larmore recorded it in French.
> 
> ...


I'll change it.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I've just seen the latest contest (Siege de Corinth/Assedio di Corinto) and this is an aria I too love!
> 
> I'm sad it's just a single round though. Maybe you have already considered this and rejected the version by Gheorghiu (on her Casta Diva disc). Didonato also recorded it (on Colbran, the muse). I think June Anderson sang it too (but it would be listed under Maometto II the original Italian version of the opera). Jennifer Larmore recorded it in French.
> 
> ...


I've got Gheorghiu. I would be more tempted to do Bartoli or Horne. This was early Horne and she is really wonderful. Didonato is a marvelous singer but she sounds rather generic in recordings to me. Larmore is a wonderful singer but she rarely does well here. Bartoli does much better here in arias like this that are full of legato singing as many dislike her coloratura. What do you think. This is for you.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I've got Gheorghiu. I would be more tempted to do Bartoli or Horne. This was early Horne and she is really wonderful. Didonato is a marvelous singer but she sounds rather generic in recordings to me. Larmore is a wonderful singer but she rarely does well here. Bartoli does much better here in arias like this that are full of legato singing as many dislike her coloratura. What do you think. This is for you.


I'd forgotten that Bartoli sang it. I'd go with Horne, hers is good too.

I know some tire of having too many rounds in these contests, but I can listen to bel canto for hours! I also find it interesting comparing singers even if some aren't as good as the others. (I'm currently listening to four different Alcina recordings, 3 with Joan in!) 

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I'd forgotten that Bartoli sang it. I'd go with Horne, hers is good too.
> 
> I know some tire of having too many rounds in these contests, but I can listen to bel canto for hours! I also find it interesting comparing singers even if some aren't as good as the others. (I'm currently listening to four different Alcina recordings, 3 with Joan in!)
> 
> N.


I love Bel Canto and 4 is not too many. I do like Horne's version a lot. We'll go with that.
Most prefer Sutherland's first Alcina but I prefer the orchestra and her more mature sound a few years later. Ah mio cor is one of the most beautiful arias I have ever heard.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love Bel Canto and 4 is not too many. I do like Horne's version a lot. We'll go with that.
> Most prefer Sutherland's first Alcina but I prefer the orchestra and her more mature sound a few years later. Ah mio cor is one of the most beautiful arias I have ever heard.


I'm listening to that exact aria at the moment (the 1959 recording which might be a must buy). The rest of the cast are better in 62, but I prefer the earlier, purer Stupenda sound in Handel and Leitner has more of a feel for the style than Bonynge. Venice live has the worst sound of course, but she is firing on all cylinders there.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I'm listening to that exact aria at the moment (the 1959 recording which might be a must buy). The rest of the cast are better in 62, but I prefer the earlier, purer Stupenda sound in Handel and Leitner has more of a feel for the style than Bonynge. Venice live has the worst sound of course, but she is firing on all cylinders there.
> 
> N.


The 1959 recording has Wunderlich in it. Reason enough for me to like it, even if he is singing in the wrong octave.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> The 1959 recording has Wunderlich in it. Reason enough for me to like it, even if he is singing in the wrong octave.


Wunderlich vs Berganza, a tough choice, but while I generally prefer a mezzo over a tenor (or baritone) in Handel trouser roles, Wunderlich has more panache than the oddly ordinary sounding Berganza. Whilst the Decca studio Alcina is better cast overall some of the famous names don't deliver as much as you might expect (Alva seems miscast and young Freni lacks individuality). However, Sciutti, Sinclair and Flagello are all better than their counterparts on the Leitner.

I think I will end up getting the Curtis as my 'Library choice' and the Leitner as a historic set.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Wunderlich vs Berganza, a tough choice, but while I generally prefer a mezzo over a tenor (or baritone) in Handel trouser roles, Wunderlich has more panache than the oddly ordinary sounding Berganza. Whilst the Decca studio Alcina is better cast overall some of the famous names don't deliver as much as you might expect (Alva seems miscast and young Freni lacks individuality). However, Sciutti, Sinclair and Flagello are all better than their counterparts on the Leitner.
> 
> I think I will end up getting the Curtis as my 'Library choice' and the Leitner as a historic set.
> 
> N.


You are so much more evolved than me. I got the discs from the library and burned my own disc only with the Sutherland arias LOL This was 20 years ago. I have never heard the whole opera  I used to get the library to order opera recordings for me that I would tape. They would get most of them. Microsoft money in Seattle you know. Now I can't listen to CDs in my new car. None have a CD player anymore so I just listen on my Youtube Premium account. At home I have many LPS that I listen to the whole side when I exercise daily to travel videos. I may get the studio Alcina one day. I LOVE analog sound. A friend gave me over 40 vinyl recordings heavy on Sutherland so I am very happy.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are so much more evolved than me. I got the discs from the library and burned my own disc only with the Sutherland arias LOL This was 20 years ago. I have never heard the whole opera  I used to get the library to order opera recordings for me that I would tape. They would get most of them. Microsoft money in Seattle you know. Now I can't listen to CDs in my new car. None have a CD player anymore so I just listen on my Youtube Premium account. At home I have many LPS that I listen to the whole side when I exercise daily to travel videos. I may get the studio Alcina one day. I LOVE analog sound. A friend gave me over 40 vinyl recordings heavy on Sutherland so I am very happy.


More evolved! Your post in the covering the male passaggio thread was one of the most sensible (and fascinating) posts there!

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> More evolved! Your post in the covering the male passaggio thread was one of the most sensible (and fascinating) posts there!
> 
> N.


I just did a speech on Melchior and my non opera literate crowd really enjoyed his story.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am thinking of doing a contest of the end of Salome from just after she kisses the head up to the huge climax. 5 or 6 min. Very doable. I could easily do a single round with Nilsson and Weltisch. If there is interest I could do a second round but I want suggestions. I love Marc but I'm the only one here who is really crazy about her so I need different suggestions. Can't do Studer, although she was great as she causes arguments.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am thinking of doing a contest of the end of Salome from just after she kisses the head up to the huge climax. 5 or 6 min. Very doable. I could easily do a single round with Nilsson and Weltisch. If there is interest I could do a second round but I want suggestions. I love Marc but I'm the only one here who is really crazy about her so I need different suggestions. Can't do Studer, although she was great as she causes arguments.


Marjorie Lawrence did that, in French, on four 78rpm sides. Don't know if they used Oscar Wilde's original French, or a French translation of the German translation set by Strauss. It was when she was very young and based in France. RCA picked it up and issued it in the US; it preceded her gigs in the US (Met. etc) by maybe a couple of years and remained the standard performance for US collectors until the 1949 Welitch LP came out. It may have influenced her hiring at the Met. It's on YouTube (all 14 or so minutes).

Hope you use the 1949 Met broadcast for Welitsch; it's a hot performance and is around in good sound. Plus you get Herod's creepy interjections.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Catherine Malfitano


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am thinking of doing a contest of the end of Salome from just after she kisses the head up to the huge climax. 5 or 6 min. Very doable. I could easily do a single round with Nilsson and Weltisch. If there is interest I could do a second round but I want suggestions. I love Marc but I'm the only one here who is really crazy about her so I need different suggestions. Can't do Studer, although she was great as she causes arguments.


Caballé - looks ridiculous on paper but is really great in fact ("Sutherland as Turandot" principle). RCA ca 1969


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> Marjorie Lawrence did that, in French, on four 78rpm sides. Don't know if they used Oscar Wilde's original French, or a French translation of the German translation set by Strauss. It was when she was very young and based in France. RCA picked it up and issued it in the US; it preceded her gigs in the US (Met. etc) by maybe a couple of years and remained the standard performance for US collectors until the 1949 Welitch LP came out. It may have influenced her hiring at the Met. It's on YouTube (all 14 or so minutes).
> 
> Hope you use the 1949 Met broadcast for Welitsch; it's a hot performance and is around in good sound. Plus you get Herod's creepy interpolations.


Both sound good! Now someone needs to come up with one more at least I knew of the Met broadcast of Welitsch.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Both sound good! Now someone needs to come up with one more at least I knew of the Met broadcast of Welitsch.


There are two Met broadcasts with Welitsch. My favourite is the 1949 one, but there is an even better version of the final scene from 1944, conducted by Lovro von Matacic and recorded at the time she was chosen to sing the role by Strauss himself, who coached her in it.





Ljuba Welitsch – Salome closing scene and other arias

Behrens is also excellent on the Karajan studio recording, when the voice was still at its freshest.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> There are two Met broadcasts with Welitsch. My favourite is the 1949 one, but there is an even better version of the final scene from 1944, conducted by Lovro von Matacic and recorded at the time she was chosen to sing the role by Strauss himself, who coached her in it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your video is no available on Youtube. Sorry.
I think I will go with Behrens for the last one as I don't have much with her. I love Jessye Norman singing this but she sounds like Salome's big bad mother LOL The voice sounds glorious though.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I have my contestants now.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Your video is no available on Youtube. Sorry.
> I think I will go with Behrens for the last one as I don't have much with her. I love Jessye Norman singing this but she sounds like Salome's big bad mother LOL The voice sounds glorious though.


Do either of these work?











It really is worth looking out the one with von Matacic conducting the Austrian Radio Orchestra.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Do either of these work?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I will use the first one. Thanks.
I created a Agnus Dei contest from the Verdi Requiem. Arroyo and Dominquez are stunning. Dominquiz created a stir here recently


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Moved down.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have my contestants now.


Not that I want to make life complicated for you, but while Behrens is a good choice but what about Teresa Stratas?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Becca said:


> Not that I want to make life complicated for you, but while Behrens is a good choice but what about Teresa Stratas?


Behrens is in. Stratas is a really dynamite actress but her voice isn't really big enough for Salome in my opinion.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I want to move this to new discussion.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Behrens is in. Stratas is a really dynamite actress but her voice isn't really big enough for Salome in my opinion.


However she is amaziing in the Götz Friedrich film, probably the most convincing Salome I've ever seen. Along with Maria Ewing in the Covent Garden production directed by her then husband, Sir Peter Hall.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> However she is amaziing in the Götz Friedrich film, probably the most convincing Salome I've ever seen. Along with Maria Ewing in the Covent Garden production directed by her then husband, Sir Peter Hall.


Yes for video I totally agree, but if we are just judging against the vocals of of the others do they stand a chance? Many of our members don't even look at the video performances when judging contests. I could just limit the contest just to singing AND acting contestants or have a special acting round for those two. For myself, I listen to the vocals frequently but have only seen Stratas video once ages ago.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Yes for video I totally agree, but if we are just judging against the vocals of of the others do they stand a chance? Many of our members don't even look at the video performances when judging contests. I could just limit the contest just to singing AND acting contestants or have a special acting round for those two. For myself, I listen to the vocals frequently but have only seen Stratas video once ages ago.


You have a point. As you say, quite a few people just listen and don't watch the videos. I think maybe if you are comparing acting as opposed to just vocals, then that should be the criterion. When all's said and done, opera is, or should be, about the total experience; voice, looks and acting and in some roles (I'd argue Salome is one of them) how they look on stage is very important. In a competition between singers acting and singing the role, I'd find it very hard to choose between Stratas and Ewing. Both are riveting.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> You have a point. As you say, quite a few people just listen and don't watch the videos. I think maybe if you are comparing acting as opposed to just vocals, then that should be the criterion. When all's said and done, opera is, or should be, about the total experience; voice, looks and acting and in some roles (I'd argue Salome is one of them) how they look on stage is very important. In a competition between singers acting and singing the role, I'd find it very hard to choose between Stratas and Ewing. Both are riveting.


I don't want to do more than 3 rounds on this one. Malitifano acts in her scene and I can put her Statas and Ewing in an action only round and do a 2 round only vocals.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I don't want to do more than 3 rounds on this one. Malitifano acts in her scene and I can put her Statas and Ewing in an action only round and do a 2 round only vocals.


Yes, Malfitano was wonderful on stage too, though the close-ups don't do her any favours. Stratas scores in that she looks young and beautiful even close to. 

It's entirely up to you, John. I'll enjoy it whatever you decide.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> You have a point. As you say, quite a few people just listen and don't watch the videos. I think maybe if you are comparing acting as opposed to just vocals, then that should be the criterion. When all's said and done, opera is, or should be, about the total experience; voice, looks and acting and in some roles (I'd argue Salome is one of them) how they look on stage is very important. In a competition between singers acting and singing the role, I'd find it very hard to choose between Stratas and Ewing. Both are riveting.


I can do an acting only with those two.
I want only 3 rounds on this so I will eliminate Caballe who is in a lot of contests and just have 4 singing only contestants: Nilsson, Lawrence, Behrens and Welitsch. It gets a lot of contestants we don't normally hear from but Nilsson was Salome for many people so I think she needs to be in there.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Yes, Malfitano was wonderful on stage too, though the close-ups don't do her any favours. Stratas scores in that she looks young and beautiful even close to.
> 
> It's entirely up to you, John. I'll enjoy it whatever you decide.


We'll have al lot of contestants we don't normally hear from. Thanks for your help.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

moved


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have been listening and planning all day in the car while I work preparing for an upcoming contest featuring one of my favorite songs: Befreit by Strauss. Fleming and Flagstad have wonderful versions but I want everyone to sing with piano so I eliminated them. Not a ton of people sing it who are known artists. The only contestant I am dead set on is Jessye Norman as it is a deeply sentimental version for me.. and rather wonderful. At this point I want to do two separate rounds by sex. I picked out Edda Moser ( new to the contest) and Marion Anderson for the women. To me they are both wonderful and very different voice types. For the men all I could come up with was Herman Prey and James King, both very good. King surprised me. I really like Jonas Kaufmann ( who does an incredible crescendo) but I don't think he gets much love here. Do you guys have any strong feelings about any different artists. I am open to suggestion. I know opera better than song even though I love song.


Nicolai Gedda with Gerald Moore - recorded 1966.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Nicolai Gedda with Gerald Moore - recorded 1966.


He didn't pop up for me. I will check him out. I figured you might help out.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> He didn't pop up for me. I will check him out. I figured you might help out.


I found this






Is it viewable where you are too?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I found this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No and I don't see it looking for Gedda and Befreit. There is a video feed of him with Moore doing lieder.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> No and I don't see it looking for Gedda and Befreit. There is a video feed of him with Moore doing lieder.


I can't find another version either and I also just looked for "Gedda Richard Strauss". What a shame! It's really wonderful.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I have been listening and planning all day in the car while I work preparing for an upcoming contest featuring one of my favorite songs: Befreit by Strauss. Fleming and Flagstad have wonderful versions but I want everyone to sing with piano so I eliminated them. Not a ton of people sing it who are known artists. The only contestant I am dead set on is Jessye Norman as it is a deeply sentimental version for me.. and rather wonderful. At this point I want to do two separate rounds by sex. I picked out Edda Moser ( new to the contest) and Marion Anderson for the women. To me they are both wonderful and very different voice types. For the men all I could come up with was Herman Prey and James King, both very good. King surprised me. I really like Jonas Kaufmann ( who does an incredible crescendo) but I don't think he gets much love here. Do you guys have any strong feelings about any different artists. I am open to suggestion. I know opera better than song even though I love song.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have been listening and planning all day in the car while I work preparing for an upcoming contest featuring one of my favorite songs: Befreit by Strauss. Fleming and Flagstad have wonderful versions but I want everyone to sing with piano so I eliminated them. Not a ton of people sing it who are known artists. The only contestant I am dead set on is Jessye Norman as it is a deeply sentimental version for me.. and rather wonderful. At this point I want to do two separate rounds by sex. I picked out Edda Moser ( new to the contest) and Marion Anderson for the women. To me they are both wonderful and very different voice types. For the men all I could come up with was Herman Prey and James King, both very good. King surprised me. I really like Jonas Kaufmann ( who does an incredible crescendo) but I don't think he gets much love here. Do you guys have any strong feelings about any different artists. I am open to suggestion. I know opera better than song even though I love song.


With orchestra, with piano, or two separate contests? There are lots


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> With orchestra, with piano, or two separate contests? There are lots


Just piano. Flagstad and Fleming are really nice but I don't think it fair to compete orchestra like they have with just piano. I didn't see many offerings in my Youtube search. Thanks for asking.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Are any of you big Anna Moffo fans?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Mario Lanza: Ave Maria
Neil Shicoff: "Rachel..." from _La Juive_
David Poleri: anything you can find
Aureliano Pertile: Otello


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Regarding Moffo, I want to include her best arias in some contest but I don't know her best stuff.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Mario Lanza: Ave Maria
> Neil Shicoff: "Rachel..." from _La Juive_
> David Poleri: anything you can find
> Aureliano Pertile: Otello


What are these suggestions for? Things you want me to include in the contests. I have either already done Shicoff in Rachel or it is coming up.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> What are these suggestions for? Things you want me to include in the contests. I have either already done Shicoff in Rachel or it is coming up.





nina foresti said:


> Mario Lanza: Ave Maria
> Neil Shicoff: "Rachel..." from _La Juive_
> David Poleri: anything you can find
> Aureliano Pertile: Otello





nina foresti said:


> Mario Lanza: Ave Maria
> Neil Shicoff: "Rachel..." from _La Juive_
> David Poleri: anything you can find
> Aureliano Pertile: Otello


I have everyone now but can't find David Poleri except in a full opera.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *Are any of you big Anna Moffo fans?*


Hmmm... Let's see how many boxes we can tick off...

Attractive - Check...

Ample bosom - Check...

Shapely bottom - Check...

Ankles thinner than calves - Check...

Certainly looks as if she has talent so...

Yeah, I'm a big Anna Moffo fan -


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *Regarding Moffo, I want to include her best arias in some contest but I don't know her best stuff.*












Link to complete label authorized recording - 154 selections - Play any of them, just look at her, who cares which one? - 



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lBS7snynJUyVqWP2JWbRJv9OamhgR3ZpM


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I have everyone now but can't find David Poleri except in a full opera.


yess I realize you already did shicoff in la juive.
Poleri has a beautiful aria in the _Saint of Bleecker Street_ calld "I know that you all hate me"


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> yess I realize you already did shicoff in la juive.
> Poleri has a beautiful aria in the _Saint of Bleecker Street_ calld "I know that you all hate me"


Here you go!


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> yess I realize you already did shicoff in la juive.
> Poleri has a beautiful aria in the _Saint of Bleecker Street_ calld "I know that you all hate me"


Here you go!






nina foresti said:


> Here you go!






And in Italian


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I can see none of the 3 videos above.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Here you go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 They aren't viewable outside the US so I think it best we skip this though I am sure it is lovely.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Is there to be a further 'Donna non vidi mai' round?

Could we have Pavarotti (and more Pavarotti in general when it's rep he was particularly known for)?

N.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

The Conte said:


> *Is there to be a further 'Donna non vidi mai' round?
> 
> Could we have Pavarotti (and more Pavarotti in general when it's rep he was particularly known for)?*
> 
> N.





Spoiler: Puccini: Manon Lescaut / Act 1 - Donna non vidi mai - Pavarotti - Levine













Spoiler: Puccini: Manon Lescaut - "Donna non vidi mai" - Pavarotti - de Fabritiis













Spoiler: Puccini: Manon Lescaut / Act I - "Donna non vidi mai" - Pavarotti - Sinopoli


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Spoiler: Puccini: Manon Lescaut / Act 1 - Donna non vidi mai - Pavarotti - Levine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> Is there to be a further 'Donna non vidi mai' round?
> 
> Could we have Pavarotti (and more Pavarotti in general when it's rep he was particularly known for)?
> 
> N.


I added an extra round and spent about a half hour adding him to other contests. I didn't know we had a Pavarotti fan club here.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> Is there to be a further 'Donna non vidi mai' round?
> 
> Could we have Pavarotti (and more Pavarotti in general when it's rep he was particularly known for)?
> 
> N.


Obvious "opponent" is Domingo. Here he is from the 1980 Met telecast with Scotto, conducted by the inescapable Levine. I mean, everytime there was a Met telecast, there was Levine, hogging all the star singers for himself.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ewilkros said:


> Obvious "opponent" is Domingo. Here he is from the 1980 Met telecast with Scotto, conducted by the inescapable Levine. I mean, everytime there was a Met telecast, there was Levine, hogging all the star singers for himself.


Scotto was fabulous in this, by the way.

Incidentally, aside from Tebaldi, I don't think any of the sopranos from complete studio recordings of *Andrea Chénier* were included in the _La mamma morta _contest; I'm thinking Stella, Caballé, Scotto, Marton.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Scotto was fabulous in this, by the way.
> 
> Incidentally, aside from Tebaldi, I don't think any of the sopranos from complete studio recordings of *Andrea Chénier* were included in the _La mamma morta _contest; I'm thinking Stella, Caballé, Scotto, Marton.


I am often ignorant of studio recordings but often end up using them often as Shaughnessy says he recommends using the Youtube videos where the record companies provide the recording as the sound is better. They are my default choice unless a different video was requested. I know you are aware of studio recordings as you review studio recordings on your excellent blog. I was hoping in this aria to feature some artists not normally featured over and over in our contests. Stella never does well here nor do Scotto and Marton. I am the only person here who ever likes Marton. Marton always bombs. Caballe sings everything like Callas does so I could include her over and over and over. Doing so with Callas would not bother anyone here unless she sounds bad. Hernandez and Bruna Rasa were requested and I try to accommodate people and some people did like them.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am often ignorant of studio recordings but often end up using them often as Shaughnessy says he recommends using the Youtube videos where the record companies provide the recording as the sound is better. They are my default choice unless a different video was requested. I know you are aware of studio recordings as you review studio recordings on your excellent blog. I was hoping in this aria to feature some artists not normally featured over and over in our contests. Stella never does well here nor do Scotto and Marton. I am the only person here who ever likes Marton. Marton always bombs. Caballe sings everything like Callas does so I could include her over and over and over. Doing so with Callas would not bother anyone here unless she sounds bad. Hernandez and Bruna Rasa were requested and I try to accommodate people and some people did like them.


I'm the opposite. I rarely think of them unless they've sung the complete role, or sometimes if I have them singing it on a recital record.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I added an extra round and spent about a half hour adding him to other contests. I didn't know we had a Pavarotti fan club here.


Well, I'm not sure one person = a fan club, but I think when we have arias that were key pieces for certain singers we should hear those singers in them, rather than the TC house singers. For example, Corelli is my favourite tenor and he divides opinion somewhat here, but there are enough of us who adore him for him to be included often in contests. However, Donna non vidi mai was never a calling card of his, whereas it's a glove fit for Pav.

N.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

*Amarilli Nizza*




Spoiler: La Rondine: La rondine, Act I: Chi il bel sogno di Doretta











Definitely deserves an audition for a contest - Attractive - check, ample bosom - check, shapely bottom - check, ankles thinner than calves - check - Passes the "Shaughnessy Test" with flying colors...

Can she sing? - Yeah, I think so - Who cares?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

ewilkros said:


> Obvious "opponent" is Domingo. Here he is from the 1980 Met telecast with Scotto, conducted by the inescapable Levine. I mean, everytime there was a Met telecast, there was Levine, hogging all the star singers for himself.


Wouldn’t you? Lol. There’s a video of a rehearsal with Jessye Norman; Levine plays while she sings and under his breath, Levine says after she sings: “unbelievable!” But it’s true that he wanted to be involved musically more than most conductors would. But he was Music Director of the Met.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

MAS said:


> Wouldn’t you? Lol. There’s a video of a rehearsal with Jessye Norman; Levine plays while she sings and under his breath, Levine says after sings: “unbelievable!” But it’s true that he wanted to be involved musically more than most conductors would. But he was Music Director of the Met.


I was thinking more of the vocal lineups of the regular Saturday matinee broadcasts, as opposed to those of his telecasts. And he always "got" the telecasts.


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Wouldn’t you? Lol. There’s a video of a rehearsal with Jessye Norman; Levine plays while she sings and under his breath, Levine says after sings: “unbelievable!” But it’s true that he wanted to be involved musically more than most conductors would. But he was Music Director of the Met.


It is one of the most magical Jessye moments for me in so many ways. Levine brought out the best in her.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is one of the most magical Jessye moments for me in so many ways. Levine brought out the best in her.


He was the old fashioned “singers’s” conductor and worked well with them, especially if they were his favorites and musicianly.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

MAS said:


> He was the old fashioned “singers’s” conductor and worked well with them, especially if they were his favorites and musicianly.


Is that so ? On the Met in HD forum, we have discussed, that he somewhat avoided bel canto, judging by the number of performances. Somebody quoted him saying, that bel canto shines or falls, depending on the quality of the singers, while Wagner has more stuff to offer if the singers are not perfect.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaughnessy said:


> *Amarilli Nizza*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A total delight. Can she act? (says this person from the theater arts section of appreciation)


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Link to complete label authorized recording - 154 selections - Play any of them, just look at her, who cares which one? -
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lBS7snynJUyVqWP2JWbRJv9OamhgR3ZpM


I am very proud of myself in that I got on a tear last night and beefed up my bass aria selections by 25%. They are all Italian so I shouldn't mess up like I did in the current contest. I did try to do a Death of Boris contest but they were all of very different lengths and I don't know the music. It is hard to find record company approved bass selections as the bass arias get relatively much less airplay than sopranos and tenors so except for Sam Ramey they don't bother. I hope the sound will be okay. There also is a much smaller pool of key players among bass singers unless I want to do current singers.


----------



## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

nina foresti said:


> *A total delight. Can she act? (says this person from the theater arts section of appreciation)*


Oh, she can act up a storm alright - Maybe - I'm not entirely certain - Who knows? - Who cares? - I rarely, if ever, think in terms of acting ability or whether or not they can even carry a tune whenever I'm judging these aria competitions - I lack knowledge of even the most rudimentary elements of operatic expertise, which will come as a surprise to no one, and so I approach them as if they were beauty contests without the swimsuit competition (which is kind of a mixed blessing when you think about it) and all that bother about "Miss Congeniality" - 

I've cued up the video for her first significant appearance - solo and then a duet -


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks to all the tips I have been able to swell the bass selections from almost half the baritone selections to roughly the same number. This is about right as both get some interest but not nearly as much interest as the ladies get. I hope you guys enjoy them.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

John,

if you ever need help with Russian rep, (or baritones and basses in general) I'm happy to help.

N.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

The Conte said:


> John,
> 
> if you ever need help with Russian rep, (or baritones and basses in general) I'm happy to help.
> 
> N.


My British teacher also specialises on Russian rep. You aren't him, are you ?


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Conte said:


> John,
> 
> if you ever need help with Russian rep, (or baritones and basses in general) I'm happy to help.
> 
> N.


I just sent you a direct message.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

BBSVK said:


> Is that so ? On the Met in HD forum, we have discussed, that he somewhat avoided bel canto, judging by the number of performances. Somebody quoted him saying, that bel canto shines or falls, depending on the quality of the singers, while Wagner has more stuff to offer if the singers are not perfect.


He played to his strengths, or what he thought were his strengths, and what he enjoyed, plus bel canto conductors were plentiful then. He did play some bel canto for some singers’s recitals and for recordings (Bartoli, for example).


----------



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> He played to his strengths, or what he thought were his strengths, and what he enjoyed, plus bel canto conductors were plentiful then. He did play some bel canto for some singers’s recitals and for recordings (Bartoli, for example).


I enjoyed his repertoire and singer choices better than I did Bing even though Bing being earlier had better talent. I certainly am not one to know conducting, but people seemed to enjoy his conducting of different types of music and even his Wagner was well received, though one would never hear of the Levine Ring like you hear of specific conductors linked to various Rings. I think singers felt like he showed up their art rather than specifically calling attention to the orchestra. I think this is the way to go in an opera conductor. I did feel that certain singers like Scotto knew where his bodies were buried to account for why they appeared so frequently. He was so enthusiastic , charismatic and intelligent that you forgot his unfortunate appearance.


----------



## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I did feel that certain singers like Scotto knew where his bodies were buried to account for why they appeared so frequently.


Is this some kind of an idiom    ? Do you mean she didn't deserve to be featured so often ? It is a honest question - I know she was a famous name, tried her Norma, but had a problem hearing her on the recording.

At that other thread, people commented, that whether Levine liked bel canto or not, once he conducted it, he was very sensitive to the singers.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I enjoyed his repertoire and singer choices better than I did Bing even though Bing being earlier had better talent. I certainly am not one to know conducting, but people seemed to enjoy his conducting of different types of music and even his Wagner was well received, though one would never hear of the Levine Ring like you hear of specific conductors linked to various Rings. I think singers felt like he showed up their art rather than specifically calling attention to the orchestra. I think this is the way to go in an opera conductor. I did feel that certain singers like Scotto knew where his bodies were buried to account for why they appeared so frequently. He was so enthusiastic , charismatic and intelligent that you forgot his unfortunate appearance.


I dislike this idea that Scotto did not deserve her success. She had considerable success in Italy and Europe in the earlier part of her career and the main reason she didn't sing much at the Met before the Levine era was that Bing wouldn't engage her for anything but Butterfly; that and the fact that she herself confessed she became a bit of a diva. She credits her husband Lorenzo Anselmi with instilling a more serious attitude to her work and after that she began what was often considered her second career, making many recordings for CBS/Sony. The voice may not be to everyone's taste but they gve ample evidence of her superb musicality. There are also quite a few videos, which show what a great stage perfomer she was, paricuarly *Manon Lescaut* with Domingo, *Suor Angelica *and *Otello *with Vickers. I find her much more interesting than many sopranos with plusher voices. Admittedly the art didn't always conceal the art (a similar criticism to that leveled at Schwarzkopf) but I've always valued too much intelligence over too little. I think she was a very fine singer indeed.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I dislike this idea that Scotto did not deserve her success. She had considerable success in Italy and Europe in the earlier part of her career and the main reason she didn't sing much at the Met before the Levine era was that Bing wouldn't engage her for anything but Butterfly; that and the fact that she herself confessed she became a bit of a diva. She credits her husband Lorenzo Anselmi with instilling a more serious attitude to her work and after that she began what was often considered her second career, makig many recordings for CBS/Sony. The voice may not be to everyone's taste but they gve ample evidence of her superb musicality. There are also quite a few videos, which show what a great stage perfomer she was, paricuarly *Manon Lescaut* with Domingo, *Suor Angelica *and *Otello *with Vickers. I find her much more interesting than many sopranos with plusher voices. Admittedly the art didn't always conceal the art (a similar criticism to that leveled at Schwarzkopf) but I've always valued too much intelligence over too little. I think she was a very fine singer indeed.


Sorry. I have stated before that I enjoy early Scotto and put arias from this period in several contests where she was wonderful. I didn't like her voice in her later performances at the Met where she was taking on bigger roles except for Macbeth, which I enjoyed as her voice worked there.. Of course unlike me you are more into art and interpretation which like Callas they both gave you when their voices were going downhill. She was supposed to be a great stage actress so perhaps on stage it really worked. I rarely watch video opera so I can only go on what it sounds like to me. I can put later Scotto into contests if you feel strongly about it.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Sorry. I have stated before that I enjoy early Scotto and put arias from this period in several contests where she was wonderful. I didn't like her voice in her later performances at the Met where she was taking on bigger roles except for Macbeth, which I enjoyed as her voice worked there.. Of course unlike me you are more into art and interpretation which like Callas they both gave you when their voices were going downhill. She was supposed to be a great stage actress so perhaps on stage it really worked. I rarely watch video opera so I can only go on what it sounds like to me. I can put later Scotto into contests if you feel strongly about it.


Well it does depend on how late, but I think most of the stuff she recorded for EMI, RCA and CBS/Sony in the 1970s is pretty good.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well it does depend on how late, but I think most of the stuff she recorded for EMI, RCA and CBS/Sony in the 1970s is pretty good.


I mainly just heard her on MetOperaRadio when I had it from Sat. matinee performances which were mostly later from what they sounded like. This was 20 years ago so my memory is not perfect.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Well it does depend on how late, but I think most of the stuff she recorded for EMI, RCA and CBS/Sony in the 1970s is pretty good.


Upon your recommendation I added her to more contests.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Upon your recommendation I added her to more contests.


Thanks. We will see. I probably like her more than most people on this forum, but I don’t mind less pretty voices if they are backed up by sound musicianship and musicality.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Thanks. We will see. I probably like her more than most people on this forum, but I don’t mind less pretty voices if they are backed up by sound musicianship and musicality.


You are an important part of my audience for the contests.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Was there ever contest on "Amor ti vieta" from Fedora ? I like that one, but have no idea who was good at it. Someone on my tape bootlegged from the radio.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Was there ever contest on "Amor ti vieta" from Fedora ? I like that one, but have no idea who was good at it. Someone on my tape bootlegged from the radio.


I'll look into that now.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Was there ever contest on "Amor ti vieta" from Fedora ? I like that one, but have no idea who was good at it. Someone on my tape bootlegged from the radio.


EVERYONE sang it. I hadn't heard it in years. What a gorgeous accompaniment!!! Thanks for the tip. I have six contestants. Wanted to include Lanza for Nina but he only did it in an abbreviated form. If I can add a contest a day, which I am doing, I can stretch these contests out for a longer period


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Seattleoperafan said:


> EVERYONE sang it. I hadn't heard it in years. What a gorgeous accompaniment!!! Thanks for the tip. I have six contestants. Wanted to include Lanza for Nina but he only did it in an abbreviated form. If I can add a contest a day, which I am doing, I can stretch these contests out for a longer period


I have a couple suggestions. Amedeo Bassi sings it (probably) accompanied by the composer (Tenore AMEDEO BASSI - Fedora "Amor ti vieta" (1906) - YouTube). It's at least supervised by the composer. Alessandro Ziliani does a beautiful version (Tenore ALESSANDRO ZILIANI - Fedora "Amor ti vieta" (1935) - YouTube).


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Is there a 'spunta laurora pallida' contest lined up, its a beautiful aria and plenty of excellent contestants: Tebaldi, Bruna Rasa, Pobbe, Favero, Burzio, Scacciati (cut)?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> Is there a 'spunta laurora pallida' contest lined up, its a beautiful aria and plenty of excellent contestants: Tebaldi, Bruna Rasa, Pobbe, Favero, Burzio, Scacciati (cut)?


There is now. Thanks!


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

One more thing, that would be fun - is there something short, where my 4 year old could vote instead of me ? Just 2 contestants, arioso length, and a situation I can explain without making her cry.

(I learned the hard way, after I undiplomatically told her, what the prayer of Maria Stuarda is about ! After that... Some families lie about Santa... I lied about Carmen and let her just break up with Jose without being killed  )


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I wish people who post contests would let me know before I post a contest on top of theirs. Balalaikaboy posted two contests today without me knowing it and I spent all the time posting a contest only to have to take it down again.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> One more thing, that would be fun - is there something short, where my 4 year old could vote instead of me ? Just 2 contestants, arioso length, and a situation I can explain without making her cry.
> 
> (I learned the hard way, after I undiplomatically told her, what the prayer of Maria Stuarda is about ! After that... Some families lie about Santa... I lied about Carmen and let her just break up with Jose without being killed  )


Pastoral (shepherd' duet - trio) from Queen of spades. Unfortunately, it's about sex basically.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish people who post contests would let me know before I post a contest on top of theirs. Balalaikaboy posted two contests today without me knowing it and I spent all the time posting a contest only to have to take it down again.


Just keep your contest as well.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Just keep your contest as well.


Thanks, but I think for someone like you, a working mother, 9 songs to listen to in one day is asking too much. If someone goes to the trouble to post a contest I want them to get their chance to have everyone put their attention on their competition without having to divide their attention with other daily contests.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks, but I think for someone like you, a working mother, 9 songs to listen to in one day is asking too much. If someone goes to the trouble to post a contest I want them to get their chance to have everyone put their attention on their competition without having to divide their attention with other daily contests.


I usually listen to it on the way to my job or home (if I use public transport), or when I cook or when we have breakfast together with my baby.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> 9 songs to listen to in one day
> ...


And that is exactly what I did. I have a sore throat and sleepless nights. Luckily I am on a sick leave.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> I usually listen to it on the way to my job or home (if I use public transport), or when I cook or when we have breakfast together with my baby.


I always enjoy your posts. I toured all over St Petersburg on Youtube recently and it is so beautiful!!!!!!


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I always enjoy your posts. I toured all over St Petersburg on Youtube recently and it is so beautiful!!!!!!


If you ever come to Petersburg, write me. We could meet and have coffee.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish people who post contests would let me know before I post a contest on top of theirs. Balalaikaboy posted two contests today without me knowing it and I spent all the time posting a contest only to have to take it down again.


I agree. It's best that we work together so that the forum doesn't get flooded. Like quite a few people here I really enjoy the contests, but there are only so many arias you can listen to at a time. There's other music I want to listen to as well, and if, like me, you generally prefer to listen to a complete opera, it's difficult to fit it in.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

However, I plan to post some really weird things and do not want the responsibility for it to be "the aria of the day".


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> However, I plan to post some really weird things and do not want the responsibility for it to be "the aria of the day".


Your past contests were all a bit out of the ordinary and they worked.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Pastoral (shepherd' duet - trio) from Queen of spades. Unfortunately, it's about sex basically.


If it is a duet I can look into posting it.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BBSVK said:


> *However, I plan to post some really weird things *and do not want the responsibility for it to be "the aria of the day".


Give us a head's up on the "really weird things" that you plan to post so that we can distinguish them from the "really weird things" that you post on a regular basis - 

On a serious note, just go for it - What's the worst that can happen? - Aside from getting beaten like a drum with our bitterly harsh criticism and you crying like a 12 year old girl being handed a puppy by Harry Styles?


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> Give us a head's up on the "really weird things" that you plan to post so that we can distinguish them from the "really weird things" that you post on a regular basis -


On a regular basis ? I had two contests so far. 

One was weird only because it contained contemporary singers, but good ones, Rebeka vs. Lezhneva, they appeared in the advice thread independently of my judgement.

The other one was weird in the sense what I meant here. A rarely played thing, for which two recordings exist at all, so the singers cannot be the best of the best from the eras present and past. I plan more of this kind. Yeah, I would be a terrible sales manager. So now you perhaps know what I am talking about.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

BBSVK said:


> On a regular basis ? I had two contests so far.
> 
> One was weird only because it contained contemporary singers, but good ones, Rebeka vs. Lezhneva, they appeared in the advice thread independently of my judgement.
> 
> The other one was weird in the sense what I meant here. A rarely played thing, for which two recordings exist at all, so the singers cannot be the best of the best from the eras present and past. I plan more of this kind. Yeah, I would be a terrible sales manager. So now you perhaps know what I am talking about.


I wasn't referring to your contests (both of which I enjoyed - I was the lone Rebeka vote for about two weeks), I meant your everyday posts in general (which, again, I enjoy) which can often be as completely off-the-wall as mine -


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Shaughnessy said:


> I wasn't referring to your contests (both of which I enjoyed - I was the lone Rebeka vote for about two weeks), I meant your everyday posts in general (which, again, I enjoy)


Oh, thank you  . But there is no conflict of interest. It is not like other people are puting off their own analysis of minutiae from Bellini's life untill I am done


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is my playlist for the 6 Xmas contestants for O Holy Night and Panis Angelicus. If you feel very strongly about an alternate suggestion make it and I will consider changing if you make a good case. I posted different artists last year.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I wish people who post contests would let me know before I post a contest on top of theirs. Balalaikaboy posted two contests today without me knowing it and I spent all the time posting a contest only to have to take it down again.


Oh sorry, just posted one! 😅


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

You caught me before I posted a Xmas contest tonight. I'll wait till tomorrow. Let me know when You want to post round two so we don't overlap contests.


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## Shaughnessy (Dec 31, 2020)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You caught me before I posted a Xmas contest tonight. I'll wait till tomorrow. Let me know when You want to post round two so we don't overlap contests.


Don't forget to sign out of Premium before posting your links otherwise you run the risk of the video not actually appearing and the cue marks that you set won't work.

Looking forward to the contest!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaughnessy said:


> Don't forget to sign out of Premium before posting your links otherwise you run the risk of the video not actually appearing and the cue marks that you set won't work.
> 
> Looking forward to the contest!


Oh, no. I always do what you tell me to!! I just save everything on Premium in my various playlists for different voice types. I am your model pupil. I do it all on Firefox where I am not signed in.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Oh, no. I always do what you tell me to!! I just save everything on Premium in my various playlists for different voice types. I am your model pupil. I do it all on Firefox where I am not signed in.


Your contests are totally gorgeous darling!

N.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Somebody mentioned Pelleas and Melisande in the other thread. I used to go to see it live, in fact I went 3 times for the same production in my theater, and the high point was the mother reading the letter in the mezzosoprano voice. Her name was Jitka Saparová Fisherová, but it doesn't help, youtube does not have that aria with her. The superficial search did not satisfy me. It would be nice to discover an equivalent pleasure through a contest. But it can wait, no need to change your schedule. Just - one time, when you don't know what to do with mezzos, it would be most wellcome by me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Somebody mentioned Pelleas and Melisande in the other thread. I used to go to see it live, in fact I went 3 times for the same production in my theater, and the high point was the mother reading the letter in the mezzosoprano voice. Her name was Jitka Saparová Fisherová, but it doesn't help, youtube does not have that aria with her. The superficial search did not satisfy me. It would be nice to discover an equivalent pleasure through a contest. But it can wait, no need to change your schedule. Just - one time, when you don't know what to do with mezzos, it would be most wellcome by me.


I looked and all you see are complete operas and no arias. I don't know it well enough to pick out a piece. As I remember it it doesn't have isolated arias but everything melds together like in Wagner. Sorry, sweet lady.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I am soooo pissed as I was rather excited to present the baritone Cambon to the group in the Hamlet aria but the Youtube link said it was him and it was NOT and I couldn't fix it. I will post a Xmas contest tomorrow. I should just skip these collections that have different artists on them as this could happen. I am embarrassed. I was so looking forward to presenting him and he sang few arias to pick from actually. I have another contest I can present him in early next week.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am soooo pissed as I was rather excited to present the baritone Cambon to the group in the Hamlet aria but the Youtube link said it was him and it was NOT and I couldn't fix it. I will post a Xmas contest tomorrow. I should just skip these collections that have different artists on them as this could happen. I am embarrassed. I was so looking forward to presenting him and he sang few arias to pick from actually. I have another contest I can present him in early next week.


I don’t think many of us knew Cambon, either. Whomever it is, he’s extraordinary.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Miserere in Trovatore: the tenor sings in it but can I consider it mainly a soprano solo? I love it . Should I consider it a duet which technically it is, but it is made by the soprano.


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## ewilkros (8 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Miserere in Trovatore: the tenor sings in it but can I consider it mainly a soprano solo? I love it . Should I consider it a duet which technically it is, but it is made by the soprano.


Depends on whether or not Bjoerling is in it


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Miserere in Trovatore: the tenor sings in it but can I consider it mainly a soprano solo? I love it . Should I consider it a duet which technically it is, but it is made by the soprano.


It’s a chorus piece (the _Miserere_) with soprano and tenor interjections.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> It’s a chorus piece (the _Miserere_) with soprano and tenor interjections.


I like it because it is one of the few soprano pieces that calls for lots of chest singing    Of course LaDivina is divine.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Miserere in Trovatore: the tenor sings in it but can I consider it mainly a soprano solo? I love it . Should I consider it a duet which technically it is, but it is made by the soprano.


It always reminds me of my great aunt, a short dumpy woman, who used to do a comedy sketch with a friend of hers, a very tall very large man, in which they satirised the prime donne and primi uomini of their time. It was done to the soprano/tenor bits of the _Miserere _with my aunt in tails, sporting a twirling moustache and her male companion in a black sequined gown and long wig. I'd always found it hard to take seriously after that' well, at least until I saw the televised Paris Gala concert with Callas alone on stage, and Albert Lance and the male chorus singing off stage.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It always reminds me of my great aunt, a short dumpy woman, who used to do a comedy sketch with a friend of hers, a very tall very large man, in which they satirised the prime donne and primi uomini of their time. It was done to the soprano/tenor bits of the _Miserere _with my aunt in tails, sporting a twirling moustache and her male companion in a black sequined gown and long wig. I'd always found it hard to take seriously after that' well, at least until I saw the televised Paris Gala concert with Callas alone on stage, and Albert Lance and the male chorus singing off stage.


I love the music myself.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Miserere in Trovatore: the tenor sings in it but can I consider it mainly a soprano solo? I love it . Should I consider it a duet which technically it is, but it is made by the soprano.


Isn't it kind of a prolonged tempo di mezzo  ?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> Isn't it kind of a prolonged tempo di mezzo  ?


You know so much more than me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Two years ago in April we did a Casta Diva contest but it was before BBSVK ( she who is devoted to Norma) and others joined the forum. It was our biggest contest ever with over 40 votes. I'd like to do it again late this year. The whole scene is 15 min long appx. Is that too much music to listen to for 4 or more contestants. I'd like to include Caballe. Sutherland won't do well here. Who else? Verrett maybe? Should we stick with the whole scene ( Ponselle had some cuts)? Give me some feedback to start planning. Here is the old contest:CASTA DIVA CONTEST (By Request): Callas vs Ponselle


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Two years ago in April we did a Casta Diva contest but it was before BBSVK ( she who is devoted to Norma) and others joined the forum. It was our biggest contest ever with over 40 votes. I'd like to do it again late this year. The whole scene is 15 min long appx. Is that too much music to listen to for 4 or more contestants. I'd like to include Caballe. Sutherland won't do well here. Who else? Verrett maybe? Should we stick with the whole scene ( Ponselle had some cuts)? Give me some feedback to start planning. Here is the old contest:CASTA DIVA CONTEST (By Request): Callas vs Ponselle


If you want to go with the whole scene (recitative, cavatina, recitative, cabaletta) then you will likely be restricted to later performances. However Ponselle is surely a given, even though her recorded performance is incomplete. With Callas there are lots of performances to choose from. I'd definitely go for one of the live ones, most likely London. 1952, Trieste 1953 or La Scala, 1955. Quite a lot to choose from with Caballé too (the cavatina in Orange is fabulous). Sutherland's from _The Art of the Prima Donna _might be worth adding. I know Verrett sang it, but I don't really know any of her performances. She might be interesting.

I'd include Bartoli, but only because I wickedly hope that the comments might be amusing!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If you want to go with the whole scene (recitative, cavatina, recitative, cabaletta) then you will likely be restricted to later performances. However Ponselle is surely a given, even though her recorded performance is incomplete. With Callas there are lots of performances to choose from. I'd definitely go for one of the live ones, most likely London. 1952, Trieste 1953 or La Scala, 1955. Quite a lot to choose from with Caballé too (the cavatina in Orange is fabulous). Sutherland's from _The Art of the Prima Donna _might be worth adding. I know Verrett sang it, but I don't really know any of her performances. She might be interesting.
> 
> I'd include Bartoli, but only because I wickedly hope that the comments might be amusing!


Regarding Bartoli... you are not a nice person 😜 I like the Covent Garden with Callas. Her voice was at it's best then. The Orange for Caballe. Sutherland did it in the higher key which is rare in her AOTPrima Donna and it was astonishing. Callas did it but never recorded it in that key. We'll see what people say. Maybe by summer... I plan way out. Gives us something to look forward to. I rarely was a fan of Verrett as a soprano but she was really wonderful as Norma. Old school.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Two years ago in April we did a Casta Diva contest but it was before BBSVK ( she who is devoted to Norma) and others joined the forum. It was our biggest contest ever with over 40 votes. I'd like to do it again late this year. The whole scene is 15 min long appx. Is that too much music to listen to for 4 or more contestants. I'd like to include Caballe. Sutherland won't do well here. Who else? Verrett maybe? Should we stick with the whole scene ( Ponselle had some cuts)? Give me some feedback to start planning. Here is the old contest:CASTA DIVA CONTEST (By Request): Callas vs Ponselle


Sutherland shouldn't be omitted.
Cerquetti, Devia, Bumbry, Yoncheva?
My sweethearts Serjan and Pankratova, I think, don't have videos.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Sutherland shouldn't be omitted.
> Cerquetti, Devia, Bumbry, Yoncheva?
> My sweethearts Serjan and Pankratova, I think, don't have videos.


I'll definitely do the Art of the Prima Donna then. It is very different from the others with spectacular vocals. I'll see what I get from others. The days are getting a little longer for you! What I might do is take two days for these contests as they are so lengthy and it will give people time to hear the two in each round.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I'll definitely do the Art of the Prima Donna then. It is very different from the others with spectacular vocals. I'll see what I get from others. The days are getting a little longer for you! What I might do is take two days for these contests as they are so lengthy and it will give people time to hear the two in each round.


Don't worry about it. I often listen to contests with a delay and write something even later. Or I don't write at all, like it occurred with an amazing Amneris contest. I was snowed under with work last month and I suspect it is going on.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If you want to go with the whole scene (recitative, cavatina, recitative, cabaletta) then you will likely be restricted to later performances. However Ponselle is surely a given, even though her recorded performance is incomplete. With Callas there are lots of performances to choose from. I'd definitely go for one of the live ones, most likely London. 1952, Trieste 1953 or La Scala, 1955. Quite a lot to choose from with Caballé too (the cavatina in Orange is fabulous). Sutherland's from _The Art of the Prima Donna _might be worth adding. I know Verrett sang it, but I don't really know any of her performances. She might be interesting.
> 
> I'd include Bartoli, but only because I wickedly hope that the comments might be amusing!


How does Callas ( Covent Garden), Ponselle, Sutherland from The ART, Caballe Orange and Bartoli sound? Each round will be a full weekend. If there is a big clamor we could do a fourth weekend for two more. The finale won't take all weekend as you will have heard everything already.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I'd include Bartoli, but only because I wickedly hope that the comments might be amusing!


How about Netrebko?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Don't worry about it. I often listen to contests with a delay and write something even later. Or I don't write at all, like it occurred with an amazing Amneris contest. I was snowed under with work last month and I suspect it is going on.


Hey, if there is a contest you are really into but you are real busy and you want me to hold off to close it out I will. I think the voting is open for a week. Just say so. I can hold off on the final vote for a week for you. The Amneris contest was good. ALSO don't hesitate to write your thoughts even if the contest is closed as we enjoy what you write and your Leningrad slant will be different from Seattle.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Becca said:


> How about Netrebko?


And Garifullina


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> How does Callas ( Covent Garden), Ponselle, Sutherland from The ART, Caballe Orange and Bartoli sound? Each round will be a full weekend. If there is a big clamor we could do a fourth weekend for two more. The finale won't take all weekend as you will have heard everything already.


That's five. If you add a sixth you could do three rounds of two. Radvanovsky is supposed to be the Norma of the day. How would she measure up against these other giants?


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> That's five. If you add a sixth you could do three rounds of two. Radvanovsky is supposed to be the Norma of the day. How would she measure up against these other giants?


Need you ask?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> That's five. If you add a sixth you could do three rounds of two. Radvanovsky is supposed to be the Norma of the day. How would she measure up against these other giants?


You are too quick. I edited it and took our Bartoli unless we did an extra round. Radvanovsky I actually enjoyed as Norma and I know Nina loves her but against Ponselle and Callas??????????


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are too quick. I edited it and took our Bartoli unless we did an extra round. Radvanovsky I actually enjoyed as Norma and I know Nina loves her but against Ponselle and Callas??????????


Not a hope in hell, I'd have thought. Nor against Caballé or Sutherland. But that's just my opinion.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Seattleoperafan said:


> You are too quick. I edited it and took our Bartoli unless we did an extra round. Radvanovsky I actually enjoyed as Norma and I know Nina loves her but against Ponselle and Callas??????????


I've got a wigging from Woodduck last time I praised Radvanovsky. But she's a good modern artist and has some admirers here.
Asmik Grigorian, as I know, sang Norma recently. Elena Stikhina's engagement was cancelled due to a famous virus. Marina Mescheriakova and Maria Guleghina did it too. The latter, frankly, lacks coloratura, but made amazing second act.
I also saw a video of Mara Zampieri.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

I am flattered for being taken into consideration as one of the Norma lovers here ☺. I adore the opera in an obsessed way, but, paradoxically, I am not sure I know what a perfect Casta diva is. My main criterion is the finale, the blend of singing and acting which is required there. Of course, I will attend the Casta diva contest with the religious devotion 🙏.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> I've got a wigging from Woodduck last time I praised Radvanovsky. But she's a good modern artist and has some admirers here.
> Asmik Grigorian, as I know, sang Norma recently. Elena Stikhina's engagement was cancelled due to a famous virus. Marina Mescheriakova and Maria Guleghina did it too. The latter, frankly, lacks coloratura, but made amazing second act.
> I also saw a video of Mara Zampieri.


I think your assessment of Guleghina is spot on. Rebekah would be an option but her version does not included the recitative which is so important. It is maybe my favorite part of Ponselle's version - so powerful and such low notes!!! I am inclined to skip Radvanovsky as we have had her in contests before and she hasn't fared well. We could do Netrebko and really get into the dissing!!!!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

*Einsam in trüben tagen= I have a contest coming up. I could include Ponselle for the novelty or stick with people who sang it in opera houses. *


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Seattleoperafan said:


> *Einsam in trüben tagen= I have a contest coming up. I could include Ponselle for the novelty or stick with people who sang it in opera houses. *


What about Melba? She sang it in house, but it's also kind of a novelty. We don't get her too often.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

vivalagentenuova said:


> What about Melba? She sang it in house, but it's also kind of a novelty. We don't get her too often.


She's in and I just did a contest with her and 4 other golden age sopranos.


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