# Greatest Conductors Of Our Day And Age



## Willem Scholten

Hey everyone, havent been posting for a while, but finally got some time so thought I'd pay a visit.

Whilst surfing I found a list with ten of the greatest conductors of the last 100 years.

"List:
Sir Simon Rattle (21.1%)
Herbert von Karajan (20.2%)
Leonard Bernstein (18.6%)
Sir Georg Solti (10.7%)
Arturo Toscanini (7%)
André Previn (5.9%)
Gustavo Dudamel (5.4%)
Sir Thomas Beecham (5.3%)
Marin Alsop (3.1%)
Sir Malcolm Sargent (2.7%)

Total votes: 1083

*This is not a representative poll and the figures do not purport to represent public opinion as a whole on this issue"*

I have listened to samples and mostly agree with it. If I could change something, I'd *switch Andre Previn with Mariss Jansons*, current chief conductor of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra. Also, The RCO has been voted Worlds greatest symphony orchestra by GRAMOPHONE magazine.

I was wondering what you guys think. Who should you substitute or who should move up the list? Let me know! Choose in the Poll and/or respond!

Ps. To strengthen my point about Mariss Jansons, visit: http://www.monteverdi.tv/royal-concertgebouw-orchestra/ . You'll find some great footage of him in action there.


----------



## phoenixshade

I must abstain from voting in this poll, as I am not intimately familiar with all the listed conductors, and some of my favorites are not represented.

Polls such as this really need to reserve one spot for "Other..."

But if I had to pick one of those listed, I'd have gone with Karajan.


----------



## Atabey

Where are Böhm,Szell,Klemperer,Furtwangler,Mravinsky,Giulini,de Sabata,father and son Kleibers,Celibidache,Jochum,Wand,Isserstedt,Reiner,Tennstedt,Kubelik,Abbado,Levine,Sinopoli,Kempe, Gergiev,Temirkanov...?

Who is Gustavo Dudamel or Marin Alsop compared to these i listed above?

If i had to go with one of these listed,i would go with Jansons who is a very very good conductor (probably the greatest alive alongside Abbado)but far from being the greatest ever.


----------



## Rondo

Atabey said:


> Who is Gustavo Dudamel ....?


No one who deserves to be listed among the others.


----------



## Krummhorn

phoenixshade said:


> Polls such as this really need to reserve one spot for "Other..."


I quite agree ... added same


----------



## phoenixshade

*! Eleven !*



Krummhorn said:


> I quite agree ... added same


That makes 11 options! Next time I make a poll, I may ask to borrow that magic wand. I had one with 37 options in mind. Do you think that's too much?


----------



## PostMinimalist

I didn't even vote since the list is so incomplete. I would probably vote for Claudio Abbado if really pushed but that's only because he does all the things I like and not nescessarily because he is the best technical conductor in the world - That accolade might go to someone like Marius Bammet (yuck)! Personally as a player I liked Marriner who just let you get on with it and Charles Groves who was so polite!


----------



## Rondo

I wonder _where_ he found this list. There are so many other note-worthy conductors out there (dead and living). Abbado would receive my vote, if he were added to this list. Others: Bruno Walter, Klemperer, Reiner, Haitink, among others.


----------



## ErFurtwanglert

How anyone could exclude Furtwangler from such a list of beyond me. I find this list quite myopic and representative of the general publics views rather than that of those who know music well. In addition to the sweeping absences already named, Karajan and Bernstein are just way too high up there for me to take this poll seriously. I find both quite overrated. If I had to, I would vote for Solti, however, it is pretty sad indeed that none of my top three choices are there. (Furtwangler, Klemperer and Temirkanov)


----------



## Atabey

ErFurtwanglert said:


> How anyone could exclude Furtwangler from such a list of beyond me. I find this list quite myopic and representative of the general publics views rather than that of those who know music well. In addition to the sweeping absences already named, Karajan and Bernstein are just way too high up there for me to take this poll seriously. I find both quite overrated. If I had to, I would vote for Solti, however, it is pretty sad indeed that none of my top three choices are there. (Furtwangler, Klemperer and Temirkanov)


Agree to all except Solti.Although I do not think he is overrated like i do about Karajan or Bernstein,i do not like his ways.I do not think he is overrated because he may be the best ever in his style.That is a style of a wild theatre man,a fire brand who cares about the dramatic aspects of music more than any other.However I like my music more silent and noble,without exaggeration and with poetry.So Solti as much as i respect him is not to my taste.I voted for other with having Furtwangler in mind but my top 10 choices were not in the list.

Also it is good to see,somebody else admires Yuri Temirkanov.He is very very underrated.His fame is nowhere near Gergiev but in my opinion he is as good as him in Tchaikovsky.In Shostakovich he is even better.


----------



## World Violist

All of these people are practically pushovers (IMO of course) next to the real greats who are virtually unknown in comparison only because they either died too young or never conducted a great orchestra until he was practically dead. To this list I would without hesitation add Dmitri Mitropoulos and John Barbirolli.

And where's Bruno Walter, for goodness' sake???


----------



## ecg_fa

My favorite conductor overall is George Szell. True, very little operatic work on record
(partially because he pissed off Rudolf Bing & never got the chance w. the Met!), but 
the way he molded the Cleveland Orchestra into such an marvelous ensemble and their
almost 'group chamber' sound really always amazes me. Of course many other greats,
including ones listed. I'd also mention Colin Davis-- as much for his ability w. a wide
variety of composers, though his LSO recordings are more uneven I think than early
ones. Christopher Hogwood & James Levine deserve some attention too IMO, as well
as others-- so hard to choose. . . 

Ed


----------



## ErFurtwanglert

Atabey said:


> Agree to all except Solti.Although I do not think he is overrated like i do about Karajan or Bernstein,i do not like his ways.I do not think he is overrated because he may be the best ever in his style.That is a style of a wild theatre man,a fire brand who cares about the dramatic aspects of music more than any other.However I like my music more silent and noble,without exaggeration and with poetry.So Solti as much as i respect him is not to my taste.I voted for other with having Furtwangler in mind but my top 10 choices were not in the list.
> 
> Also it is good to see,somebody else admires Yuri Temirkanov.He is very very underrated.His fame is nowhere near Gergiev but in my opinion he is as good as him in Tchaikovsky.In Shostakovich he is even better.


Temirkanov is my favorite living conductor...after hearing a good chunk of his Shostakovich cycle, I don't think I can go back to Toscanini or Bernstein, the sheer Russian-ness shines through.
I also will put in a good word for his predecessor at the Leningrad Philharmonic, Mravinsky. His Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsakov are very strong, and his Shostakovich is a contender with Temirkanov.


----------



## Atabey

ErFurtwanglert said:


> Temirkanov is my favorite living conductor...after hearing a good chunk of his Shostakovich cycle, I don't think I can go back to Toscanini or Bernstein, the sheer Russian-ness shines through.
> I also will put in a good word for his predecessor at the Leningrad Philharmonic, Mravinsky. His Mussorgsky and Rimsky-Korsakov are very strong, and his Shostakovich is a contender with Temirkanov.


His Shostakovich is amazing.It is a shame nobody gives him the opportunity and money to record a complete cycle.


----------



## Ludovyk

And what about his Prokofiev? Absolutely marvellous, no other conductor handles like him the exact dosages of lyricism, irony and humour that this composer demands. His performance of the Classical Symphony on RCA is my first choice for this beloved work in a discography that is abundant in many other splendid versions... I cannot forget a Petruchka I saw him conduct, one of my deepest musical emotions: colourful, plenty of nuances, completely under the control of conductor whose gestures seemed to mesmerize the musicians as well as the audience. Yes, I agree that Temirkanov, though underrated, is one of the best living conductors, probably the only one worthy (by means of his talent and his culture) of succeeding Mravinski.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

ecg_fa said:


> James Levine deserve some attention too IMO...


Perhaps *the* prominent "underrated" in the discussion for greatest living conductor. Is he neglected in the Eastern Hemisphere because the preponderance of his activity is in America?! What I admire most about Levine is that he's always pressing forward- always developing his art. There are those who would say that his Boston Symphony Orchestra is the best-sounding band in North America (if they're not, they're damn close)- and his work at the Metropolitan Opera has cemented his reputation not only as an interpreter of repertory opera, but also as a builder of ensemble.

When Levine was Music Director at (the Chicago area's) Ravinia Festival, I thought "yeah... I guess he's nice." Well, he's a lot more than "nice" (and my not knowing that then is doubtless more of a testimony to my lack of perception then than it is a comment on his career development). One has to cross an ocean to find anyone of similar accomplishment.

Yeah, I agree that some of the choices on this 'poll' are lame. However, we *do* have  an antidote.


----------



## Kezza

I don't know too many but Zubin Mehta seems to be my favourite atm.


----------



## David C Coleman

This is so difficult and would probably keep changing as I hear different conductors conduct different works/composers.
I can't say from the last hundred years because really I only hear recordings since the start of the stereo age. But roughly I would put the top ten conductors in no particular order:-

Klemperer,
Ficsay,
Jochum,
Karajan,
George Szell,
Walter,
Harnoncort,
Valery Gergiev,
Simon Rattle
Temirkanov


----------



## David C Coleman

Oh I missed out Sir Colin Davies, (sorry that's 11)..


----------



## oldguy5

*Greatest Conductors Of Our Day and Age*

Neville Mariner - should he be listed or not? Or does his specialization in mostly Baroque disqualify him? Or am I wrong in categorizing him as such?

Also, what of the conductors of the Minneapolis Symphony, now the Minnesota Orchestra?


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

oldguy5 said:


> Neville Marriner - should he be listed or not? Or does his specialization in mostly Baroque disqualify him?


Well, Baroque & early Classical, anyway. This runs parallel to a point made on another thread, where someone spoke up for Period Instrument advocate Trevor Pinnock. I have a few Marriner recordings that I really admire... but in order for a conductor to be considered one of the all-time greats, there probably should be some renown at leading works across multiple eras. I had similar ambivalence concerning _Eugene Ormandy_. He has put together some outstanding performances of some of my very favorite repertoire... but since all of his finest work is post-Beethoven, I can't call him one of the very best in recent memory, much as I cherish his output (and Marriner's).

On the topic of other Minnesota Orchestra conductors, perhaps Osmo Vänskä (and/or Neville Marriner) may make an appearance on our much discussed "Living Conductors" projected thread.


Chi_town/Philly said:


> Yeah, I agree that some of the choices on this 'poll' are lame. However, we *do* have  an antidote.


And our "antidote" has been *refined further.*!


----------



## World Violist

oldguy5 said:


> Also, what of the conductors of the Minneapolis Symphony, now the Minnesota Orchestra?


I think Osmo Vanska is one of the best living conductors, if not the best outright. His Sibelius and Beethoven are both utterly amazing, and his Bruckner, while I haven't heard any of it, is very highly thought of. And the Minnesota Orchestra is a world-class orchestra that is now, under Vanska, actually getting the recognition it deserves.


----------



## LindenLea

I have nothing against her that I can think of, but apart from the possibility that this is political correctness gone mad, and there is an overwhelming need to have a female conductor in the poll, I can't think of one reason on earth why Marin Alsop should be on the list of All Time Greatest conductors - I suppose if I was being generous she may just sneak into the Top 500! 

Anyway, I agree with the person who thought Sir Colin Davis might be considered as one of the greats, also nobody has mentioned Neville Marriner or Kurt Masur in this context, certainly if you seperate the great 'live' conductors with genuine stage presence from those who largely made their reputations inside the recording studio, I would be interested to see if any conductor has spent more hours in the studio and produced more fine recordings over the past 40 years or so than Marriner.


----------



## Chi_townPhilly

LindenLea said:


> ...I would be interested to see if any conductor has spent more hours in the studio and produced more fine recordings over the past 40 years or so than Marriner.


Great point. They also serve who build ensemble, arrange for the dissemination of the great classics to a wider audience, enhance local music education, and take steps to help insure the future financial health of the orchestras that they lead.

It's why I place the great *Music Directors* of the past on a higher plane than certain itinerant career guest-conductors.


----------



## rverne8

Willem Scholten said:


> Whilst surfing I found a list with ten of the greatest conductors of the last 100 years.
> 
> "List:
> Sir Simon Rattle (21.1%)
> *This is not a representative poll and the figures do not purport to represent public opinion as a whole on this issue"*


Not sure including many of the conductors on the list has any relevance as there is almost no opportunity to hear them in a representative way via recordings-so we're left with just the reports of other folks-that's not a very good set up for objectivity.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja

That was a great honor of the original poster to put Marin Alsop on the list of greatest conductors. She is currently the conductor of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, and I've seen her in concert. Kudos for her Prokofiev! I'm guessing the poll is closed now to give a vote for her.


----------



## starthrower

Toscanini has been dead since the 1950s. He is not of our age.
Beecham has been dead almost as long.

Pierre Boulez should be on the list.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio

Not sure including many of the conductors on the list has any relevance as there is almost no opportunity to hear them in a representative way via recordings-so we're left with just the reports of other folks-that's not a very good set up for objectivity.

Which of these conductors is lacking in solid representation through recordings?

Toscanini has been dead since the 1950s. He is not of our age.
Beecham has been dead almost as long.

Pierre Boulez should be on the list. 

It depends upon how the original poster defined "our time". Personally, I can think of an entire array of conductors who could be added to the list... many arguably greater than Boulez: Otto Klemperer, Karl Bohm, Rafael Kubelik, Eugen Jochum, John Eliot Gardiner, Sir Collin Davis, Charles Mackerras, William Christie, Ton Koopman, Rene Jacobs, Masaaki Suzuki, Valery Gergiev, Vernon Handley, Sir Adrian Boult, George Szell, Sir John Barbirolli, Clemens Krauss, Hans Knappertsbusch, Joseph Keilberth, Wilhelm Furtwangler, Yevgeny Mravinsky, and many more...


----------



## HarpsichordConcerto

Any conductor who commands a premium remuneration, sells tickets, sells records and sells lectures (if they give any) are all great conductors because we, the suckers, pay $$$ and allocate time to see them ...


----------



## choirmaster78

Myung Whun Chung would recieve my vote!


----------



## superhorn

It's absolutely impossible for me to choose one greatest conductor,just as I can't choose one greatest composer,singer or instrumentalist. There are simply too many great ones,living and dead. The problem is that people tend to equate the most famous with the greatest,and the two don't necessarily coincide always,
Among the no longer living are such greats as Toscanini,Stowkowski,Bernstein,Walter,Furtwangler, Monteux, Beecham, Klemperer, Boehm,
Knappertsbusch, Jochum, Munch, Barbirolli,Szell, DeSabata, Ansermet, the two Kleibers,
Dorati,Talich,Mravinsky, Ormandy, Reiner,Mengelberg, Rodzinski, Solti, Kempe, Boult,
Weingartner, Kondrashin, Horenstein, Kubelik, Giulini, Leinsdorf, Mackerras(just departed last year), Markevitch, Steinberg, Wand, Celibidache, Koussevitzky, etc. 

Among the living : Boulez,Haitink, Abbado, Levine, Muti, Previn, Rattle, Harnoncourt, 
Neeme Jarvi, Jansons, Slatkin, Colin Davis, Gergiev, Gardiner, Mehta,Maazel, Masur,
Nagano, Blomstedt, Chailly, Dutoit, Janowski, Thielemann, Barenboim, Conlon, 
Dohnanyi, Eschenbach, Zinman, Chailly, Ozawa, Rozhdestvensky, Temirkanov,
Bychkov, etc.

And highly promising young ones such as Dudamel,Nezet-Seguin, Edward Gardner, 
Robin Ticciati, etc, who definitely have the potential to achieve greatness. 
No dount I've left out some notable names.


----------



## Vaneyes

Similar thinking here, superhorn...lists of dead and living. I'll bite, with ten "greats" from each.

Personally, I have a difficult time considering a conductor as "great", unless he's recorded some Mahler and/or Bruckner symphonies. I look forward to hearing Pappano's (interview link below).

Many more of today's conductors understand the importance of having these two composers in their arsenal. Unfortunately, most results don't match their enthusiasm or quest for legacy.

The Dead - Walter, Szell, Klemperer, Barbirolli, Jochum, Karajan, Solti, Bernstein, Horenstein. Giulini.

The Living - Muti, Abbado, Jansons, Haitink, Boulez, Barenboim, Harnoncourt, Blomstedt, Chailly, Harding.

Pappano interview...

http://mahler.universaledition.com/antonio-pappano-on-mahler/


----------



## Moscow-Mahler

I don't know the defenition of a great conductor! I hope that Paavo Jarvi, E.P. Salonen and Vanska, Andrew Litton and other good middle-aged conductors will made more interesting recordings... I esp. hope for a good colaboration between Salonen and Philharmonia Orchestra.

Too bad, Mackerras is dead. He made some very good recordings in his last years. 

I think such conductors as Gerard Schwarz should be respected for playing non-standart repertoir.

I like Chailly's recordings with Gewandhaus and his Bartok and Hindemith with Concertgebouw, but I'm not so sure about his B. and M. box-sets.

Ivan Fischer is a good orchetra builder, but I need to listen more to him, I'm not sure is he so great as Hurwitz claims.


***
I respect Sir Georg Solti (1912-1997), despite his reputation of being extroverted, fiery but not "profound". Acoording to his and others memoirs he was a perfectionist, a self-critical person. For me his interpretations are bright, but not neurotic or brutal.


----------



## kv466

Superhorn did a great job answering this...while he missed a couple of my favorites, it's the same basic idea:

Far too many conducting far too many magnificent works...variety is a wonderful thing.


----------



## Bone

Alive: Boulez, Rattle, Chung
Deceased: Szell, Bernstein, C. Kleiber
Overall: Kleiber. I can hardly make it they the first 5 minutes of his Brahms 4 without crying. Szell a close second.


----------



## ZombieBeethoven

I have no idea who the greatest may be, but I have greatly enjoyed listening to Jordi Savall's recordings.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Boulez is my vote


----------



## sharik

what, no Mravinsky and Furthwangler?


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

yep that's it


----------



## Xaltotun

I've been on a Klemperer craze lately... the man made some godly records: Missa Solemnis, Ein Deutsches Requiem, Mass in B Minor, Matthäus-Passion, etc. He carves music in gigantic slabs of stone; he has that great feeling of "music as architechture" that I so love. Right now, he would be my number one favourite.


----------

