# Infidelity



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Assuming you're a fan of monogamy, would you stay with a life-partner if they cheated on you?


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

Since I'm not a fan of monogamy, I can't answer


----------



## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

That never happen (I think). And as my wife has 73, it'll never happen. (I think).


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2012)

That's a complex question, Polednice. It would depend on the age of both parties, the number of children (if any), whether or not they are in a business together, the combined household assets, professional employment - sometimes these things are just TOO hard to unwind and both people end up losers. If it was somebody in the 20's or 30's I would think seriously of continuing the relationship, though. That's not a good start. But by a 'life partner' we can mean somebody INTENDED to be in that role, rather than somebody who has actually been around for a very long time. To my knowledge, and this will cause some controversy, gay men are very promiscuous and if one were going to base life decisions based on male fidelity within a homosexual relationship then I think it extremely problematic - if not impossible - to achieve. My sister belongs in the gay community and we were only have this discussion last week about male fidelity and she said it was "extremely rare". One needs, therefore, to also consider 'context'.

If you think my initial comments were materialistic, it is because of my age and life experience and also that I know for a fact that romantic relationships just don't last and throwing all that you have over for that is a no-brainer. As someone I known once quipped, "she said they could live on love, but finally couldn't stand the hunger pains!"


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Polednice said:


> Assuming you're a fan of monogamy, would you stay with a life-partner if they cheated on you?


I was married. He was unfaithful. The marriage ended. I was young and the marriage had not endured for many years and there were no children. I am not sure my response would be the same if we had already built a life with children and convoluted financial and emotional ties.

As I age I wonder if monogamy is the ideal it is held out to be. I also wonder about the question you posed. To what degree does one ignore infidelity - and for that matter what counts as infidelity? Does a sexual fling without any complex emotional "stuff" warrant the destruction of an existing relationship with what we term "love"?


----------



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> If it was somebody in the 20's or 30's I would think seriously of continuing the relationship, though.


That's interesting. I would have said that it's better to break up with a cheater the _younger_ you are, as if they're messing around when you have few attachments, there's a strong precedent for them to do it when times get tough. If someone has been faithful up until their 50s, it's more "understandable" if it happens.



CountenanceAnglaise said:


> To my knowledge, and this will cause some controversy, gay men are very promiscuous and if one were going to base life decisions based on male fidelity within a homosexual relationship then I think it extremely problematic - if not impossible - to achieve. My sister belongs in the gay community and we were only have this discussion last week about male fidelity and she said it was "extremely rare". One needs, therefore, to also consider 'context'.


That stereotype does exist, and I'm surprised your sister thinks it's true, but then I am a gay person not involved in the gay community, so I really couldn't say to what extent promiscuity is a norm (of course, sleeping around while maintaining a facade of being in a committed relationship, and sleeping around without having a main partner are two very different things, and I imagine more of the latter goes on in the gay community without the deceit of the former). I can say, though, that my partner and I are two of the most monogamous people you could ever meet - much more than many straight people, I'm sure! When it comes down to it, you can't pathologise a whole group of people; we're just normal like everyone else, and you'll actually find a huge amount of gay men who just want to settle down with a single partner and have a suburban family.



Moira said:


> As I age I wonder if monogamy is the ideal it is held out to be. I also wonder about the question you posed. To what degree does one ignore infidelity - and for that matter what counts as infidelity? Does a sexual fling without any complex emotional "stuff" warrant the destruction of an existing relationship with what we term "love"?


I think there is also a question in there about someone who doesn't have a sexual fling, but who is completely cold with you emotionally while investing all their emotion in some other person outside the relationship.


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

It depends. I honestly don't think my partner would ever cheat on me. There are times when I find it is excusable. She finds it always absolutely inexcusable. It is one of the few things we disagree on. So, depending on what the circumstances are, I could find it forgivable. Misrepresentation bothers me more than anything about it.


----------



## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Cnote11 said:


> It depends. I honestly don't think my partner would ever cheat on me. There are times when I find it is excusable. She finds it always absolutely inexcusable. It is one of the few things we disagree on. So, depending on what the circumstances are, I could find it forgivable. Misrepresentation bothers me more than anything about it.


What kind of circumstances do you find excusable? And I take it that you would act by her standards, and so would never cheat (not that you'd ever be tempted!!)?


----------



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Well, I don't find cheating to be RIGHT, but I don't find anything purely right/wrong/unforgivable as you know, so I wouldn't go about doing it myself. I have no reason for doing so. If I felt tempted then I'm not feeling whole in my current relationship and should either restructure the way I think of relationships or end it. I'm refrained from posting anything but one liners on here, so you can't have me breaking that, Polednice! People are emotional and impulsive creatures. I can understand that they make mistakes. Many-a-people cheat from being put in tough situations where they are lacking certain somethings in their relationship. It is understandable in these situation to me because it is circumstantial and not a prevalent mindset. In this way, it is merely superficial and doesn't have much meaning to me. I could get over it; forgive and move forward to patch up the holes in the relationship that are causing these issues. However, it is recommended to do step 2 first before step 1.


----------



## sheffmark (Apr 9, 2012)

No chance!
One strike and you're out!


----------



## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

No way. Not a sucker.

It's not even principle sort of thing, I'd just have no feelings for someone like that.


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2012)

Very interesting comments here. Polednice, I'm afraid I expressed myself poorly. I meant that if my partner and I were in our 20's or 30's I would have to RECONSIDER our relationship. I'm glad you enjoy a monogamous relationship with your partner and, from what I understand, this is the exception rather than the rule. In hetero relationships things are complicated by the existence of children and this keeps things going long after they should have ended. I agree that playing around implies something is wrong in a relationship, BUT one thing you come to realize with age is that no single relationship can fulfill all our needs in life, nor should they. This is a huge qualifying get-out clause, IMO. And there is such thing as 'emotional infidelity' and I'm afraid I've been there more than once. It's extremely painful, let me tell you. My husband and I have an excellent relationship and we discuss these things together all the time. He knows everything I do and think. I also think it depends on the kind of person you are too - some people would never be attracted to anybody else, no matter what. Humanity brings with it all kinds of complexities and problems; just accept that as your guiding principle.


----------



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm a biblical man, so I'd stone her.


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2012)

If she's the biblical Lot's Wife and 'turned' she's already made of stone!!


----------



## AlainB (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm not entirely a fan of monogamy, probably never will be.

Regardless, if someone cheats on me, it's game over either way. Sure, trust can be regained, but the process of doing so is not an option in my book. Mess up once means you've messed up for life it it comes to emotional bondage. 

I'm not saying that one can't make a mistake. Sure you can, but not marriage/relation-wise.


----------



## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

My wife and I are so much in love with each other that the thought of 'cheating' is totally non-existent. Marriage is a commitment, much more than saying "I Do" in front of whomever and signing the license ... it is, for Mary and I, an unbreakable bond to life's end. 

But to answer the question posed - I think people deserve a second chance. After that, their **** is grass.


----------



## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Krummhorn said:


> My wife and I are so much in love with each other that the thought of 'cheating' is totally non-existent. Marriage is a commitment, much more than saying "I Do" in front of whomever and signing the license ... it is, for Mary and I, an unbreakable bond to life's end.
> 
> But to answer the question posed - I think people deserve a second chance. After that, their **** is grass.


I worked for my ex-boyfriend about thirty years ago. He was a happily married man at the time, which marriage had at that stage endured for about ten or twelve years. After I stopped working for him I still considered him to be one of the brightest, most sensible men on the planet and I continued to see him, irregularly, for the next fifteen or so years for a cup of coffee two or three times a year at his office. At these meetings I always asked him what was new. He always told me that there was nothing new (then passed on news of his wife and kids). One day in response to the question he got up, closed the door, and told me that out of the blue his wife, to whom he was happily married, had asked for a divorce. It was interesting. He and I dated for a while, but there never was much more to our relationship than a real and deep friendship which endures. The main difference between us is that I am out at a performance of music, dance or theatre about three to seven times a week and that is about the number of times he went out a quarter.

I say this in response to your note, Krummhorn, because he, too, could not envisage his relationship ever dissolving for any reason whatsoever, and in fact neither of the parties there were unfaithful to each other in thought, word or deed at any stage of the marriage. He was very much in love with her and thought that he was meeting her needs. The marriage dissolved a few days before what would have been his 27th wedding anniversary.

So love and cherish Mary, but make sure there is enough discussion to ensure that you are going about it the right way. I love happy endings.


----------



## Guest (May 14, 2012)

Moira, a very intelligent bit of advice and observation overall. Yes, things can change in our relationships but I suspect many of the people in this forum are still very young and I felt the same when I was their age. But I've seen so much water go under the bridge with friends' and relations' marriages that I remain too realistic of think of "happily ever after". But I do hope that it turns out for people that way if this is what they really both want. I have a wonderful husband and the two of us are virtually inseparable. We discuss everything openly and I think this is the secret to longevity in any relationship, plus kindness and consideration. That way, when temptation crosses the path it's really very clear cut as to what options might be. And, as in any other aspect of life, temptation does cross the path - be that career, another person, new lifestyle; anything. There's something compelling about the "grass on the other side", so we must be vigilant about our choices and how they affect others. I cannot help smiling when I see people write "game over" if their partner is unfaithful. Just make sure all the assets are in BOTH names, just in case!! And 'game over' means kids split between homes, reduced assets overall, increased debt, loneliness (when couple-dom is the preferred social paradigm) and sheer hard work without the support of a loving "other". Think long and hard about THOSE kinds of decisions!!


----------



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Krummhorn said:


> But to answer the question posed - I think people deserve a second chance. After that, their **** is grass.


Before I even read all the responses, this was my reaction! Second chance: yes. Third chance... no!

That said... in the 'Dad was told by Mother' category, my Mom told my Dad, pre-marriage, that infidelity was going to be the one thing that would not be forgiven... so the man was on notice before he went to the altar...

Their marriage lasted nearly 55 years- ending only when my late father became a widower.


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Odnoposoff said:


> That never happen (I think). And as my wife has 73, it'll never happen. (I think).


My wife IS

Martin


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

I am or was against monogamy...but I think it is ok for my wife and I. 

Martin, so old...


----------



## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

Well I no longer have a girlfriend but I'd be _very_ angry. Just thinking about it makes me sick, I don't know why. 
Maybe because I see cheating as the worst and most mediocre betrayal one could do. It's destructing the most intimate relation you could think off. It's an awful act of destruction. I'm really feeling sick and sad. I'm maybe too naive or whatever, but I just can't imagine that. No second chance or whatsoever. I'm not a particularly emotional guy but I'd probably feel shattered.
It maybe has to do with being introvert and shy and antisocial and so on. I'd maybe be very sad and angry because I'd feel that I'd have given something very important for me to someone and this would have been destructed and insulted.

But that how I feel personally. 
I can understand that some persons, after having been married for a few years or decades, will begin to think about it. Miserable life and mediocre human beings, plus very bad choices I guess.

BTW, I don't consider polygamy or being libertine or whatever as cheating or infidelity. To me infidelity is betrayal. If two (or three in a ménage à trois ahah if it even exists) persons agree about being sexually free or whatever, I don't see any problem and neither do I consider this to be infidelity, even if they're married. I certainly couldn't do this but well they do what they want.

I also don't understand people who don't want their partner to fancy about someone else than themselves. It seems normal and purely physical to me. 
This is far from actual infidelity...


----------



## Turangalîla (Jan 29, 2012)

Because I'm a person of biblical belief, cheating on your spouse is legitimate (but not mandatory) grounds for divorce. If both partners want to continue the relationship (and the offending one is sorry), they should continue together. That being said, cheating is a _despicable_ act.


----------



## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

Do you believe that Bertrand and Dora Russell were despicable? Yes or no?


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Because I'm a person of biblical belief, cheating on your spouse is legitimate (but not mandatory) grounds for divorce. If both partners want to continue the relationship (and the offending one is sorry), they should continue together. That being said, cheating is a _despicable_ act.


Well, but how about concubines? I could use me a few hundred of them, myself.


----------



## drwatson (May 15, 2012)

CarterJohnsonPiano said:


> Because I'm a person of biblical belief, cheating on your spouse is legitimate (but not mandatory) grounds for divorce. If both partners want to continue the relationship (and the offending one is sorry), they should continue together. That being said, cheating is a _despicable_ act.


Cheating is probably thought to be legitimate grounds for divorce by most people of most beliefs - there are many despicable things in the world, though, and I don't know if I'd use such a strong word for cheating.

When I was much younger, I was in a couple of semi-serious relationships where my partner cheated on me. The first time, attempting to be grown up about it, I thought it was right to give her another chance, but things didn't work out for other reasons. The second time, I realised that cheating sets a precedent for a bad relationship - if you can't talk about the problems that lead up to temptation, you don't have much of a foundation to work on.


----------



## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

When someone leaves a relationship, they're the second person to go...

This has been published in the last few weeks and is highly recommended to anyone wanted to explore this subject further:


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I haven't really been in enough relationships to know, since none of them ended as a result of cheating -- usually they just get bored with me, which is understandable. In any case, I think the thing to do would be to take the opportunity to step back and assess the actual quality of the relationship up to that point, and take a while before actually making a decision. Although I don't doubt my decision each time would tend towards breaking up, if it hadn't already happened during that time.

By the way; the book posted above might be of good intentions, but that is an incredibly stupid title.


----------



## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

IMO, to cheat your wife/husband is complicate, expensive, dangerous and stupid. You'll never know how it would end, and what consecuences it can have. And you could be in very serious trouble with your partner, your family and your job.


----------



## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> By the way; the book posted above might be of good intentions, but that is an incredibly stupid title.


I agree. And the book is actually about _relationships_ (which is a more profitable subject for study) and which is why I suggested it. It has quite a lot to say about infidelity, commitment (or lack thereof) and plenty more.


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2012)

Jeremy, thanks for that link about the book. It looks quite good. There are many reasons why people are unfaithful and each relationship is different, and there are many different KINDS of relationships. The older I get the less certain I am about "certainties", if that makes any sense. Remember, marriage was designed "for life" when life expectancy was about 45 years!! That's compelling for modern behaviours inside marriage.


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

sheffmark said:


> No chance!
> One strike and you're out!


I agree with you, nevertheless, two nights ago I dreamt she cheated on me, I was furious and I told her the day after . She laughed and told me, "that's not me" I will never cheat on you....Pfiu...(sigh).

I love my wife and I think she loves me. We have been married for 35 years now. She's still attractive and beautiful and I am in shape and kind of hansome for my age...and our sex in unbelievable...and imaginative...why should we change?

Martin


----------



## sheffmark (Apr 9, 2012)

If my wife cheated on me then she'd be free to sleep with them (Or anybody) forevermore after i've divorced her!
If sex with someone else is better than with me then she can be free to enjoy it as much as she likes!!


----------



## kv466 (May 18, 2011)

I really hate the fact that I am a fan of monogamy yet have fallen to temptation.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

sheffmark said:


> If my wife cheated on me then she'd be free to sleep with them (Or anybody) forevermore after i've divorced her!
> If sex with someone else is better than with me then she can be free to enjoy it as much as she likes!!


"Oh c'mon, give it a rethink."

View attachment 5186


----------



## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

At least kv466 is honest. To maintain the biblical tone set by others 'let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone'.


----------



## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

Should we consider temptation as cheating ?


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

Praeludium said:


> Should we consider temptation as cheating ?


I hope not! LOL

Martin


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I would stay with a woman no matter how much she cheated on me, but then again, I'm a bit mental. If she wanted me to leave, then I'd do it, though.


----------

