# What is Igor Stravinsky - Les Noces about?



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

What is Igor Stravinsky - Les Noces about?

This website has really nothing about what the lyrical content is about nor much on what the choreography is like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_noces

What are your thoughts?


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

It's about a Russian folk wedding. If you want the most Russian and folk-authentic version you should listen to the Pokrovsy Ensemble who specialise in Russian folk music. They have a version with the usual Stravinsky score, but the best version is a re-arrangement. You'll love it or hate it. I absolutely love it. It's different and takes it back to Stravinsky's roots. Both Rachmaninov and Stravinsky remained Russian in their hearts to the end. Avoid Bernstein in this.


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## BiscuityBoyle (Feb 5, 2018)

Conversely, if you want a version that doesn't strip this work of its strangeness and modernity, then Bernstein is excellent. Pokrovsky's recording is great if you want to get a better sense of the Russian source material before it got distorted by Stravinsky's "crooked mirror" (to quote Khrennikov). But for the percussive and angular modernist masterwork, Bernstein on DG is superb (I don't even mind that the singers sing Russian phonetically, and I'm Russian). 

Lyrically it's not so much "about" a folk wedding as it is a transcription of the chants and incantations that were sung before and during folk rituals. The language is very archaic and hard to follow for modern day Russians. 

Rachmaninov and Stravinsky... should not be named in conjunction with one another.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

The two families to be joined argue and generally get excited - fairly typical of weddings in many parts of the world - wonderful. I think there are a quite a few good recordings. I agree to avoid Bernstein - he just didn't get post-Rite/Petrushka Stravinsky.


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

BiscuityBoyle said:


> Conversely, if you want a version that doesn't strip this work of its strangeness and modernity, then Bernstein is excellent. Pokrovsky's recording is great if you want to get a better sense of the Russian source material before it got distorted by Stravinsky's "crooked mirror" (to quote Khrennikov). But for the percussive and angular modernist masterwork, Bernstein on DG is superb (I don't even mind that the singers sing Russian phonetically, and I'm Russian).
> 
> Lyrically it's not so much "about" a folk wedding as it is a transcription of the chants and incantations that were sung before and during folk rituals. The language is very archaic and hard to follow for modern day Russians.
> 
> Rachmaninov and Stravinsky... should not be named in conjunction with one another.


Ah - I didn't know you were Russian. I studied Russian and French at university and spent 3 weeks in Soviet Russia where I got to know some painters and musicians and sat in with the jazz band at Cafe Molodyozhnaya, Ulitsa Gorkovo. The only point I was making about Stravinsky and Rachmaninov was that they were both emigres with deep Russian roots. We could go into a further conversation of how they did and didn't integrate into the world outside Russia and what they felt in their hearts, from which their music came. I'm sure you could contribute a lot there. Khrennikov is another story, as you know. Thanks for your post.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

One recording that I like - and the I am most likely to listen to at the moment - is that by Teodor Currentzis. It is coupled with (yet another) Tchaik Violin Concerto ... but at least this one has the considerable benefit of Patricia Kopatchinskaja, a violinist who is always worth hearing even when the work is an over-familiar warhorse (in the same way, I think, that Currentzis is a conductor who if always worth hearing even in music that is very familiar).


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Try and SEE Les Noces!!

It's as much about ritual (Rite of Spring in pretty costume?) as about tradition. It's about as Echt-Russian as any piece he composed.

There's a Mariinsky production on YouTube in two parts, under Gergiev:


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Robert Pickett said:


> Try and SEE Les Noces!!
> 
> It's as much about ritual (Rite of Spring in pretty costume?) as about tradition. It's about as Echt-Russian as any piece he composed.
> 
> There's a Mariinsky production on YouTube in two parts, under Gergiev:


There's a wonderful choreography+costumes by Bronislava Nijinska (sister of Nijinsky) which is sometimes revived, and I think this is the one you are referring to. Really worth seeing, like you say. She choreographed an incredible Firebird, which I don't see on the Net. This was also revived, though I forget the details except it was very red!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Lyrics for Les Noces are in this pdf (after Oedipus, and after the potted biography of Edward Fox!)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAFegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2Xe0jRv3-8XIm_BEOT0rEf

I suspect that the Gergiev on YouTube is the same choreography, but the one I remember from documentaries etc was much more automaton-like. This one (almost!) involves human beings! Me, I love it, the contrast between the flurry and fuss of the music and the detached ballet, wonderful!


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## ollv (Jun 29, 2018)

When stravinsky conversated with someone he told about russian traits in his music 'remained horns and legs'. And someone answer. But it is very beautiful horn and legs.


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## ollv (Jun 29, 2018)

But if we told more seriously we would say stravisky started the thread of antheil. I able to prove it


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

I was dumbfounded by how much Carl Orff’s Carmina Burana was influenced and inspired by Stravinsky’s Les Noces... Naughty, naughty, Carl. Stravinsky was first by 13 years.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BiscuityBoyle said:


> Rachmaninov and Stravinsky... should not be named in conjunction with one another.


Yeah. Rachmaninoff didn't hang out in fashionable salons, crave publicity, trash talk other composers, change styles opportunistically, and claim that music couldn't express anything. 

The two of them did live "in conjunction with one another" in Beverly Hills in the 1940s, and perhaps contrary to expectation were not unappreciative of each other's work. Some of it, anyway...


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Yeah. Rachmaninoff didn't hang out in fashionable salons, crave publicity, trash talk other composers, change styles opportunistically, and claim that music couldn't express anything.
> 
> The two of them did live "in conjunction with one another" in Beverly Hills in the 1940s, and perhaps contrary to expectation were not unappreciative of each other's work. Some of it, anyway...


I guess it would be rather naughty to speculate that Stavinsky was a more "assimilated" American of the Beverly Hills genre....


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Just to note that Shostakovich was a huge fan of Stravinsky.


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## Crawford Glissadevil (Jul 23, 2018)

I just joined this site to find composers that I would like. I'm a Stravinsky fan. After reading several threads, I've noticed a lot of hate for Stravinsky. What composers would you recommend for someone who loves Stravinsky?


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Crawford Glissadevil said:


> I just joined this site to find composers that I would like. I'm a Stravinsky fan. After reading several threads, I've noticed a lot of hate for Stravinsky. What composers would you recommend for someone who loves Stravinsky?


I don't see any dislike for Stravinsky in this thread. Admittedly Les Noces is not his most immediately approachable work, but I think most here have chimed in with admiration at the very least.

I'd also suggest there's nobody quite like Stravinsky! If you like him you obviously have fine taste :tiphat:

I'd suggest digging into those works of his you don't yet know, most are clearly from the same pen. Do you know works such as Apollo, Agon, Orpheus? How about the wonderful violin concerto? Or the weird and spiky, but strangely beautiful Requiem Canticles?

Someone earlier mentioned Antheil, not my cup of tea, you might enjoy? Aaron Copland? Olivier Messiaen?

Try Bartók, another giant of the last century, personally my favourite composer of all!


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Robert Pickett said:


> I don't see any dislike for Stravinsky in this thread. Admittedly Les Noces is not his most immediately approachable work.


Why do we want approachable works at all? One of the pleasures of discovering classical music is repeated listening of great works that appear challenging at first. Even more true of Bartok, Messiaen, Berg etc.

I love Stravinsky's chamber works, for instance. Renard and L'Histoire du Soldat in particular. He wrote beautifully for instrumental combinations.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Ditto to the above, although it took the full version of The Soldier's Tale to convince me (ie not the somewhat pointless suite!)


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## Crawford Glissadevil (Jul 23, 2018)

Robert Pickett said:


> I don't see any dislike for Stravinsky in this thread. Admittedly Les Noces is not his most immediately approachable work, but I think most here have chimed in with admiration at the very least.
> 
> I'd also suggest there's nobody quite like Stravinsky! If you like him you obviously have fine taste :tiphat:
> 
> ...


Thanks Robert. You're right, no hate for Stravinsky on this thread...I was speaking of other threads like "Most overrated composer ever" thread. I totally love Bartok, so I'm sure you've set me on the right track.

Originally Prog albums like Yes-_Close to the Edge_ and King Crimson- _Red_ made me aware of Stravinsky. I like Polytonality, polyrhythms, counter point, and odd time signatures. So far, "Rite of Spring" is my favorite Stravinsky composition.

I will follow up on your suggestions.


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## Crawford Glissadevil (Jul 23, 2018)

Because my Prog rock and Jazz obsessions dominate my "listening experience", I haven't ventured beyond the ballets: Rite of Spring, The Firebird, Persephone, Petrushka, and Pulcinella.

Thank you *Robert Picket* and *Les24preludes*. I auditioned several of your recommendations online and loved them all. I just purchased a 22 CD box set "_Works of Igor Stravinsky_" off of eBay for $30. Stravinsky conducts Stravinsky.

My wife has Bartok's complete piano works. That's my main exposure to Bartok.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

You know, Crawford, you won't do much better than that 22-CD set! It's not absolutely complete, a shortage of chamber works, but it's as good as!
My wife's old piano teacher force fed her Bartók's Mikrokosmos as she learnt from a very early stage. Only now has she overcome her aversion to Bartók's music, after 20+ years of marriage!!

If you like The Rite, try The Miraculous Mandarin. Bartók's a simply wonderful composer, there are so many great works to try!


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## Crawford Glissadevil (Jul 23, 2018)

Robert Pickett, I'll check out _The Miraculous Mandarin _ASAP.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

Crawford Glissadevil said:


> I just joined this site to find composers that I would like. I'm a Stravinsky fan. After reading several threads, I've noticed a lot of hate for Stravinsky. What composers would you recommend for someone who loves Stravinsky?


You might also enjoy this talented fellow who was highly influenced by him (sometimes to Stravinsky's great annoyance ):


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## staxomega (Oct 17, 2011)

les24preludes said:


> It's about a Russian folk wedding. If you want the most Russian and folk-authentic version you should listen to the Pokrovsy Ensemble who specialise in Russian folk music. They have a version with the usual Stravinsky score, but the best version is a re-arrangement. You'll love it or hate it. I absolutely love it. It's different and takes it back to Stravinsky's roots. Both Rachmaninov and Stravinsky remained Russian in their hearts to the end. Avoid Bernstein in this.


Which re-arrangement is this? The video has been taken down.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

staxomega said:


> Which re-arrangement is this? The video has been taken down.


I'm guessing it was this Nonesuch recording which was put up on youtube. Maybe you can download it from somewhere assuming it's still available?


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Jerome Robbins did his own staging. It’s part of the NY City Ballet Repertoire.


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