# Musical sociology



## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

After reading Adorno's book on musical sociology, I have a new found appreciation for how music relates to a culture and it's people. Classical and jazz seem to have the least amount of impact in the country in which I reside yet play a very important role in others,namely European countries. Pop music (which i really dislike in most forms) always will have an impact on the majority of the population. What are your thoughts on current pop music and the population?
I find TV shows like American Idol and Who wants to be a Star tend to cheapen music making in general. There are exceptions to this but the 3 minute (at best) song today seems to be filled with the usual hate,drugs,sex and smut that have been part of pop/rock music for many years. Again,exceptions are made now and then.

The pop fluff that consumes most radio stations in the US bore me to tears. So ,of course, I don't listen to it. But my wife does and so now and then I have to tolerate it. It is the "country" music that makes me cringe. Yuk.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

Jim


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

handlebar said:


> I find TV shows like American Idol and Who wants to be a Star tend to cheapen music making in general. There are exceptions to this but the 3 minute (at best) song today seems to be filled with the usual hate,drugs,sex and smut that have been part of pop/rock music for many years. Again,exceptions are made now and then.


I heard this talk milion times before. It's like saying: "Hey, people are killing each other! There are wars all over the world, such a violent times!". It always will be like that, and it always been. You think that popular music of your generation was better, but it's only a sentiment, something that you're used to. And naked ladies in music videos today? You got your freedom and free love from those beautiful 60's and 70's songs. It's not getting worse, this is natural.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

handlebar said:


> The pop fluff that consumes most radio stations in the US bore me to tears. So ,of course, I don't listen to it. But my wife does and so now and then I have to tolerate it. It is the "country" music that makes me cringe. Yuk.
> 
> Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?
> 
> Jim


I know what you mean Jim. Thankfully, I never got too much into that pop, country, hip-hop, etc. I was brought up with jazz and classical in my veins, so pretty much anything outside of those genres I can't really tolerate.

As far as radio goes, I think it still has some viable importance in our society, that is, if you live in a city where there are some good stations to choose from. I don't hardly ever listen to radio, because I have a large collection, in which about 85% of I haven't even heard yet!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

There is good quality rock and other more popular music out there, but you don't always come across it (I agree that pop is rubbish).

I also like jazz and classical the most, but I think there are still some very good rock bands out there, like _Coldplay_, for example. We must also not forget that there were some good rock bands in the past too, like _Dire Straits_.

I also don't mind some chillout beats, like lounge music (say with a solo instrument playing against a background of music and recorded sounds/effects), and some lighter techno.

I don't own anything like these, but have heard friends stuff. While they don't touch me half as much as jazz or classical, it's good to have some variety now and again.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Not knowing of that book, I will make a risky stab at answering.

We can compare music to the other arts and even to cuisine. The pop fluff you hear on the radio is like fast food or junk food. It may appeal to the masses due to marketing but usually isn't very nutritious. I think that has always been the case, but perhaps more so today.

For a long time I hated pop music or rock music because all I heard was the radio fluff, but there are some very innovative musicians out there, thousands of them maybe, who don't get radio airplay because they are too cerebral, don't fit in the three minute format and aren't conducive to selling junk food ads. They are rock or pop only by virtue of the type of instruments they use or in that there is some vestigial blues roots remaining, but heavily veiled or cooked in stew of other genres. This is the type of stuff that fascinates me.

A little closer to topic, I'm not sure pop music has as large an effect on society today as it did in the 60's for instance where it heavily swayed public opinion (in the US) to give up on war for a time. Everywhere I go, on line or in the real world, I hear young people saying, "Man, I wish I had seen the 60's and 70's," feeling that those decades were slightly more about innovation. Radio still played rubbish then, but record labels allowed artists to be different rather than having so many cookie cutter diva types prevalent today who are more about midriffs than music.

I appreciate nice midriffs you understand -- I just think they should be seen and not heard.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

I think you need to get into the Folk music of a Country to start with, this usually finds its way into other form of the Country's music, Hungary, Germany, USA even, I like the Irish music because of its basic rhythms (not the dancing) To-day's Pop I do not like but there have been some great tunes from the Pop of the 50-60s, I heard a radio discussion a few years back and one comment was "take a Beatles tune that lasts for 3-4minutes" if Beethoven could have got hold of it he would have made it into a Symphony.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Andante said:


> I think you need to get into the Folk music of a Country to start with, this usually finds its way into other form of the Country's music, Hungary, Germany, USA even, I like the Irish music because of its basic rhythms (not the dancing) To-day's Pop I do not like but there have been some great tunes from the Pop of the 50-60s, I heard a radio discussion a few years back and one comment was "take a Beatles tune that lasts for 3-4minutes" if Beethoven could have got hold of it he would have made it into a Symphony.


Yes, I too, Andante enjoy more folk music that is traditional to a native country. I'm from the Southeastern United States and it's generally looked at as not being a cultural musical oasis, but if music history tells us anything, there is some beautiful music to be found in the Appalachian Mountains. I actually do enjoy some bluegrass music. I find that this music, though primitive sounding, can offer a composer and instrumentalist with a great wealth of ideas.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

I couldn't honestly care less about "hate, drugs, sex, and smut" in today's music. I'll listen to a song with any lyrical content so long as it's good. What I can't abide is boring, cookie-cutter pop.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2009)

Mirror Image said:


> there is some beautiful music to be found in the Appalachian Mountains. I actually do enjoy some bluegrass music. I find that this music, though primitive sounding, can offer a composer and instrumentalist with a great wealth of ideas.


Indeed, Copelands Appalachian Spring for starters, I also like bluegrass but do not have any CDs of it, it is surprising the amount of folk that is in classical, again Bartok springs to mind.


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Andante said:


> Indeed, Copelands Appalachian Spring for starters, I also like bluegrass but do not have any CDs of it, it is surprising the amount of folk that is in classical, again Bartok springs to mind.


Sure, as does Vaughan Williams and Sibelius. I mean there's a great wealth of folk music out there that so many composers can get inspiration from.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Adorno! Great thinker, but: a) like all philosophers his mind is of an ideological bent which produces stupid judgements and b) his prose is inclined towards the arcane.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> Adorno! Great thinker, but: a) like all philosophers his mind is of an ideological bent which produces stupid judgements and b) his prose is inclined towards the arcane.


You are entitled to your opinions as we are too. I disagree. When you write a book like Adorno and have it published, let us know and we shall read it. Then we can voice our opinions as well.

Jim


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

handlebar said:


> The pop fluff that consumes most radio stations in the US bore me to tears. So ,of course, I don't listen to it. But my wife does and so now and then I have to tolerate it. It is the "country" music that makes me cringe. Yuk.
> 
> Jim


Well, most of the 'country music' that they play on country stations isn't really country music at all. It's pop music (and often very poor pop music at that) sung by people who wear a cowboy hat.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> Well, most of the 'country music' that they play on country stations isn't really country music at all. It's pop music (and often very poor pop music at that) sung by people who wear a cowboy hat.


Yes!!!! Agreed indeed!!!! I tell my wife that but she pooh pooh's me and goes back to listening LOL

Jim


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

handlebar said:


> Yes!!!! Agreed indeed!!!! I tell my wife that but she pooh pooh's me and goes back to listening LOL
> 
> Jim


She doesn't subject you to it I hope! I ride with a person who has "country" playing in her car and I have to get that horrible whine out of my head when I get home. Life is too short for that.


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Weston said:


> She doesn't subject you to it I hope! I ride with a person who has "country" playing in her car and I have to get that horrible whine out of my head when I get home. Life is too short for that.


Fortunately my wife loves classical as well and is currently reading a delightful book of introduction to classical. She has tried hard over the many years to learn about it and appreciate it. I love her so much for trying. She has certainly learned a lot and enjos it and concerts as well.

She does not push me to listen to her music though. And for that I'm grateful.Then again i don't push her to listen to classical either.

Jim


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## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

Nobody pushed me into liking jazz or classical music, but it was always playing around the house when I was a kid. It is also only natural for me to be drawn towards it anyway. These two genres have been in my family for generations and I hope more generations to come!

I was lucky in many ways that I had parents that were musically hip. My Dad loved classical, jazz, and rock and my Mom loved bluegrass, so I think music just flowed through me the moment of I was born.

I'm thankful and grateful for all the people who gave me little pushes along the way to more sophisticated music.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

handlebar said:


> You are entitled to your opinions as we are too. I disagree. When you write a book like Adorno and have it published, let us know and we shall read it. Then we can voice our opinions as well.
> 
> Jim


This seems to be a peculiarly defensive reply. 

I was expressing enthusiasm tempered by some reservations (for example he despised jazz - with racialist undertones).


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## handlebar (Mar 19, 2009)

Herzeleide said:


> This seems to be a peculiarly defensive reply.
> 
> I was expressing enthusiasm tempered by some reservations (for example he despised jazz - with racialist undertones).


Perhaps it was a bit too defensive. But it seems like your responses to many of the posts by myself and others here border on aggressive themselves.It was a knee jerk reaction that sometimes happens with imperfect humans 

Jim


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