# Who is the most depressing composer or composers?



## atsizat

Who is the most depressing composer or composers?


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## Guest

As a person who had a dozen treatments of electro-convulsive therapy (among other things) before he could purchase an adult beverage, I might recommend not feeding the impulse.


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## Morimur

Most depressing composers? The Minimalist—they all suck.


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## Abraham Lincoln

Tchaikovsky was a really miserable man, but again, this assessment is largely based on the composer's life rather than the music.


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## SeptimalTritone

nathanb said:


> As a person who had a dozen treatments of electro-convulsive therapy (among other things) before he could purchase an adult beverage, I might recommend not feeding the impulse.


Ouch. My sympathies.


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## Bevo

I'll second Tchaikovsky. Look up his relationship with "The Five." Keeping his same-sex orientation private also played a role. His death is credited to drinking Cholera infested water, but many believe it was done so purposefully as an act of suicide. He died 9 days after the premier of his 6th Symphony, which had one of the most, if not the most, depressing finales of all time. Look him up. I also feel the depression and sorrow is VERY evident in his music, ESPECIALLY his last symphonies. His music isn't also slow and sad, but a lot of his works are in a minor key. His music was what truly got me into Classical music. He was my first favorite composer! Sad story, but great music!


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## jimsumner

20th century Swedish composer Allan Petterson by a wide margin, or at least of anyone I've ever heard.

A miserable childhood-abusive, alcoholic father--and physical ailments as an adult that disfigured him and left him in constant pain.

And it all comes out in his music, mostly Mahlerian-length symphonies.


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## Fugue Meister

What I'd like to know is do you mean that was depressed, or their music sounds depressing? If it's the latter than I agree with jimsumner ^ but I will throw Shostakovich's name in the mix for both a depressing life and depressing music (not all but a large percentage).


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## sweetviolin

This is pretty depressing I think


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## JD Reyes

Perhaps a better question would be: What piece of music is elicits the most pathos (depressing)? or What composer is best at evoking a sense of poignancy or sadness? The second movement of Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony, in my opinion, is a good example.


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## Gordontrek

You'd be hard-pressed to find a more depressing piece than the fourth movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th. Don't listen if you're in a bad mood, it will make it worse. Tchaikovsky wrote a lot of happy music, but on the inside, he was a wreck. His Pathetique has been called his Requiem. 
Also try: third movement of Chopin's second piano sonata, commonly known as "Funeral March." Chopin's music is often emotionally charged since he struggled with health problems throughout his life, so that's another place to look. One of my favorites is his etude No. 8 from his Opus 28 etudes nicknamed "Desperation." It's not entirely a melancholy piece since it's rather fast, but it creates a sense of confusion, and indeed, desperation.


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## Orfeo

*Alexander Glazunov
*During his final three decades after 1905, life was anything but easy for this great Russian. He lost his friend and teacher Rimsky-Korsakov in 1908, his friend Stasov in 1906. Taneyev passed on in 1915, and many of his friends and colleagues emigrated during Russia's turbulent years leading up to, during, and after the Revolution. The Russian Silver Age, as Glazunov was so much a part of, was gone, and the age of turbulence, uncertainty, privation became the new reality. This new age was also hostile. He then lost his mother in 1925 and emigrated himself to France, finding various degrees of success promoting his music in the United States and the West. But nostalgia never left him, and although he remained celebrated, his heyday was long over.

*Nikolay Myaskovsky*
A man of the world, Myaskovsky was an avid reader, and even a writer and critic earlier on. But, following tradition, he was destined for the military. The first blow hit him when his mother passed in 1892. His aunt raised him as his surrogate mother. Although he studied music, first with Gliere, and then at the St. Petersburg Conservatory, he never abandoned military service. During the war, he was shell-shocked. But he suffered additional blows during the turbulence of the 1910s. He father, a general, was killed, his aunt passed away (Myaskovsky found her dead in a cold, dark room), his brother-in-law committed suicide. He managed to land a career as Professor at the Moscow Conservatory of Music, earning him "The Musical Conscience of Moscow", but the political climate, at first uncertain and precarious during the 1920s, became even more so during the era of Stalinism of the 1930s. Going through the dangerous years of the 1930s, the Great Patriotic War, he, with leading composers (incl. Popov, who would be rather destroyed by this), was branded a formalist during the Zhdanov Decree of 1948. He was terminally ill at that time. 
_See_ Gregor Tassie's "Nikolay Myaskovsky: the conscience of Russian music" which is an excellent, well absorbing read.

*Anton Bruckner*
The guy who struggled mightily to achieve success and recognition, only to be met with rejection after rejection, hostility after hostility. To write symphonies, only to be rejected, criticized, and told (or advised) to re-write had to be taxing beyond belief. Plus, Hanslick was a merciless son of a gun, as was imperial Vienna. The disastrous premiere of his Third Symphony was an enormous blow, and Levi's rejection of the Eighth perhaps more so (right after achieving his first real fame of the Seventh Symphony). His love of and faith in God saved Bruckner, no question in my mind.

*Allan Pettersson*
A childhood marred by abuse, dysfunctionality, and then illnesses that crippled much of his physical and spiritual well being during his adulthood.

*Roger Sacheverell Coke*
A very obscured British composer, but with immense talent (as made obvious by his 24 Preludes and Fifteen Variations recently released by Somm). He battled mental health problems and depression since childhood, exacerbated by the failure of his opera, The Cenci, which critics attacked so unrelentingly. This failure led to him, already a habitual smoker, to smoke up to 100 cigarettes a day to combat his schizophrenia.


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## atsizat

Gordontrek said:


> You'd be hard-pressed to find a more depressing piece than the fourth movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th. Don't listen if you're in a bad mood, it will make it worse. Tchaikovsky wrote a lot of happy music, but on the inside, he was a wreck. His Pathetique has been called his Requiem.
> Also try: third movement of Chopin's second piano sonata, commonly known as "Funeral March." Chopin's music is often emotionally charged since he struggled with health problems throughout his life, so that's another place to look. One of my favorites is his etude No. 8 from his Opus 28 etudes nicknamed "Desperation." It's not entirely a melancholy piece since it's rather fast, but it creates a sense of confusion, and indeed, desperation.


I didn't find the 4th movement of Tchaikovsky's 6th depressing. I didn't find it depressing. Tchaikovsky's None but the loney heart is depressing to me.


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## Guest

If you truly insist on fueling a dangerous disorder, then Pettersson is your best bet in the classical realm... 

Gesualdo too.


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## joen_cph

The very personalized Pettersson image is partly due to Leif Aare´s early portrayals; Pettersson apparently himself came to dislike claims of self-pity in his works, and insisted that they were comments on collective and general existential and political circumstances; obvious examples are the 12th Symphony and the cantata Vox Humana - & their text material.


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## Guest

joen_cph said:


> The very personalized Pettersson image is partly due to Leif Aare´s early portrayals; Pettersson apparently himself came to dislike claims of self-pity in his works, and insisted that they were comments on collective and general existential and political circumstances; obvious examples are the 12th Symphony and the cantata Vox Humana - & their text material).


I don't need context to feel that some of Pettersson's symphonies are relentlessly oppressive. Just because he had historical context going for him, doesn't mean he relies on it, as Soviets often do


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## Bayreuth

Well if we talk about musical sadness then I would go for Berlioz or Bruckner (it's actually more of a bittersweet, beautiful melancholy); if we talk about composers that make me want to turn the music off and kill myself right away then I'd say any member of the Second Viennese School


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## Stavrogin

I am not sure how this thread turned to be about the composers' personalities, when the OP seems clear in asking about their music...?

Now, since my opinion is that good music is beautiful and beauty brings happiness (regardless the range of emotions it evokes), I should answer that the most depressing composers are just the worst ones, but I would have to stop there because I have no idea who they are.

Hence, I prefer to talk about "saddest music", rather than "most depressing", because while the saddest music doesn't sadden me, the most depressing should - by definition - depress me, therefore be bad.

This said, I nominate *Henryk Gorecky*.


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## helenora

SweetJesus said:


> Well if we talk about musical sadness then I would go for Berlioz or Bruckner (it's actually more of a bittersweet, beautiful melancholy);


as for Bruckner I'd quote : "There no beautiful surfaces without a terrible depth", the same applies to Mahler , well, and some others too. That's about beautiful sadness as it never comes alone: if it's a beautiful surface, then there is always something under it, much darker. And if it's a terrible sadness then there is always something beautiful on the surface above. In case of Bruckner, it's always such a broad spectrum of emotions in his music and when the entire spectrum is present it becomes a wonderfully intense light.


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## Blancrocher

Benjamin Britten's music can often be depressing--and he's one of my go-tos for morbid creepiness as well, by the way.


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## EdwardBast

Bevo said:


> I'll second Tchaikovsky. Look up his relationship with "The Five." Keeping his same-sex orientation private also played a role. His death is credited to drinking Cholera infested water, but many believe it was done so purposefully as an act of suicide. He died 9 days after the premier of his 6th Symphony, which had one of the most, if not the most, depressing finales of all time. Look him up. I also feel the depression and sorrow is VERY evident in his music, ESPECIALLY his last symphonies. His music isn't also slow and sad, but a lot of his works are in a minor key. His music was what truly got me into Classical music. He was my first favorite composer! Sad story, but great music!


The suicide story is nonsense and has been debunked. Tchaikovsky was very happy about the success of his Pathetique. His symphonies in minor mode, except for the 6th, end triumphantly in the major mode.


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## Woodduck

jimsumner said:


> 20th century Swedish composer Allan Petterson by a wide margin, or at least of anyone I've ever heard.
> 
> A miserable childhood-abusive, alcoholic father--and physical ailments as an adult that disfigured him and left him in constant pain.
> 
> And it all comes out in his music, mostly Mahlerian-length symphonies.


I'll second this (or is it third or fourth by now?). On first hearing I could hardly believe how painful Petersson's music is. After listening to several of the symphonies, I can't imagine ever wanting to hear more. I don't listen to music in order to peer into someone's private agonies, and Petterson's are emphatically on display, regardless of what he says his music is about.


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## Mahlerian

SweetJesus said:


> if we talk about composers that make me want to turn the music off and kill myself right away then I'd say any member of the Second Viennese School


I listen to the Second Viennese School more than most on this forum, and I've never had any thoughts of suicide. Plenty of beautiful and dramatically powerful music, though.

What could you find so offensive about this?


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## Guest

Mahlerian said:


> I listen to the Second Viennese School more than most on this forum, and I've never had any thoughts of suicide. Plenty of beautiful and dramatically powerful music, though.
> 
> What could you find so offensive about this?


How I feel:


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## Bayreuth

Mahlerian said:


> I listen to the Second Viennese School more than most on this forum, and I've never had any thoughts of suicide. Plenty of beautiful and dramatically powerful music, though.
> 
> What could you find so offensive about this?


I don't doubt some of them did actually write some beautiful pieces. Most of what I've heard from them wasn't, though. I'm no expert so if those composers are where they are I guess it's due to their talent and I'm just missing it because of my lack of musical knowledge (and yes, maybe a little bit of prejudice). Although I have nothing against the music on your video, most of the times the way I feel towards them is closer to this:


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## Mahlerian

SweetJesus said:


> I don't doubt some of them did actually write some beautiful pieces. Most of what I've heard from them wasn't, though. I'm no expert so if those composers are where they are I guess it's due to their talent and I'm just missing it because of my lack of musical knowledge (and yes, maybe a little bit of prejudice). Although I have nothing against the music on your video, most of the times the way I feel towards them is closer to this:


Comparing Schoenberg, etc. to horror music is on the same level as calling Mozart and Haydn "drawing room music." It is an utter simplification that has nothing to do with the way I experience it.

Anyway, most of the music in that video isn't even 12-tone music.

This is 12-tone music:


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## clavichorder

I find William Schuman's later symphonies very depressing. And Allan Petterson.


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## joen_cph

Concerning Pettersson, there´s no doubt that the harsher elements found in his style will always deter a good deal of the listening public. But to say that all his works are singularly depressive is wrong, of course. Also, there are at least islands of comfort or tranquility in all of them, and they often end in a calm or hopeful way.

Besides, some of the new CD recordings don´t always capture some of his melodic lines as the old LP recordings.

This especially applies to the CPO 9th Symphony versus Comissiona´s LP 9th, which is much slower & longer, and includes far more cantabile sections, especially at the end (



).

Also, the CPO 6th doesn´t quite have those qualities found in Kamu´s old LP. And the CPO 2nd Violin Cto has the same faults, IMO, when contrasted with Ida Haendel in the concerto. The chaos and conflicts of the first half of that gigantic work is gradually replaced with a very beautiful melody in the last part.

For starters, I usually recommend the 8th symphony and its hypnotic, "Bolero-like" long lines (



, or [MEDIA=youtube]DUcn1Lny1BY[[/ME...solated as an "oasis" in that respect either.


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## TxllxT

For me without a trace of doubt: Ludwig van Beethoven.


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## Sloe

SweetJesus said:


> I don't doubt some of them did actually write some beautiful pieces. Most of what I've heard from them wasn't, though. I'm no expert so if those composers are where they are I guess it's due to their talent and I'm just missing it because of my lack of musical knowledge (and yes, maybe a little bit of prejudice). Although I have nothing against the music on your video, most of the times the way I feel towards them is closer to this:


I prefer listening to their beautiful pieces.
Even if the video is funny I think it presents the music of the Second Viennesse School since the snippets are taken out of their context.


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## atsizat

TxllxT said:


> For me without a trace of doubt: Ludwig van Beethoven.


To me ( my opinion), the only depressing piece that belongs to Beethoven is Moonlight Sonata. Other than that, there is none.


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## Morimur

atsizat said:


> To me ( my opinion), the only depressing piece that belongs to Beethoven is Moonlight Sonata. Other than that, there is none.


It's not meant to be sad.


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## Abraham Lincoln

But that doesn't make all of Beethoven depressing. His stuff is too emotionally-driven and passionate to be depressing.


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## atsizat

Morimur said:


> It's not meant to be sad.


Depressing means sad


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## Abraham Lincoln

atsizat said:


> Depressing means sad


Depends on the context. Sometimes it has to do with the feeling of actual depression rather than just sadness.


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## Bellinilover

Giuseppe Verdi is one of my all-time favorite composers, but his operas are, to me, sometimes almost unbearably sad. For example, I really have to be in the right mood to listen to DON CARLO or SIMON BOCCANEGRA.


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## Guest

atsizat said:


> Depressing means sad


It can mean sad. In the same sense that rectangle means square.


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## GreenMamba

Regardless, I think Morimur was saying the Moonlight isn't meant to be either sad and/or depressing. I agree with him. So it's a curious choice to be the only depressing Beethoven work.


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## Fugue Meister

atsizat said:


> To me ( my opinion), the only depressing piece that belongs to Beethoven is Moonlight Sonata. Other than that, there is none.


How much Beethoven are you familiar with? He had plenty to say on the sad side of things.


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## KenOC

Fugue Meister said:


> How much Beethoven are you familiar with? He had plenty to say on the sad side of things.


Hmmm... I know my Beethoven pretty well. He wrote plenty of music that was thoughtful, inward, even grave. But in trying to think of "sad" music I'm coming up empty, except maybe for the Cavatina from the Op. 130 quartet. Can you give some examples?


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## Ivan Limanjaya

Bevo said:


> I'll second Tchaikovsky. Look up his relationship with "The Five." Keeping his same-sex orientation private also played a role. His death is credited to drinking Cholera infested water, but many believe it was done so purposefully as an act of suicide. He died 9 days after the premier of his 6th Symphony, which had one of the most, if not the most, depressing finales of all time. Look him up. I also feel the depression and sorrow is VERY evident in his music, ESPECIALLY his last symphonies. His music isn't also slow and sad, but a lot of his works are in a minor key. His music was what truly got me into Classical music. He was my first favorite composer! Sad story, but great music!


Couldn't agree more. I always identify myself as Tschaikovsky, his life story feels so personal to me.


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## Fugue Meister

KenOC said:


> Hmmm... I know my Beethoven pretty well. He wrote plenty of music that was thoughtful, inward, even grave. But in trying to think of "sad" music I'm coming up empty, except maybe for the Cavatina from the Op. 130 quartet. Can you give some examples?


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying LvB is anywhere close to taking the title "most depressing" but he had his fair share of despair and he knew how to use it in some of his music to dramatic effect.

Firstly here are the most striking examples...





















Aside from those examples here are some others...

1) The Largo e mesto, from Op. 10 No. 3 (PS # 7, M. II)
2) The Funeral March from Op. 26 (PS # 12, M. III)
3) Abwesenheit from Op. 81a (PS # 26, M. II)
4) The Adagio ma non troppo from Op. 110 (PS # 31, M. III)
5) The Adagio affettuoso from Op. 18 No. 1 (SQ # 1, M. II)
6) The Adagio molto e mesto from Op. 59 No. 1 (SQ # 7, M. III)
7) The Larghetto espressivo from Op. 95 (SQ # 11, M. IV)- I get it the coda not sad.. but everything else..
8) The Adagio from Op. 131 (SQ # 14, M. VI)
9) The Lento assai from Op. 135 (SQ # 16, M. III)

I'm sure there are more examples but you can't deny he could turn on the "sad" if he needed to.


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## LHB

Claude Loyala Allgén. Lived his whole life in poverty and without recognition and died in a fire in his own house, which destroyed a lot of his works as well. His 2.5 hour violin sonata makes me want to shoot myself.


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## Skilmarilion

EdwardBast said:


> Tchaikovsky was very happy about the success of his Pathetique.


Tchaikovsky was very satisfied (perhaps moreso than with any other piece) with the composition.

There was however no "success" to speak of - he led its premiere, which received a quite lukewarm response, and died nine days later before its second performance led by Napravnik.


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## polonois

I believe Rachmaninov has to be mentionned. His 'Isle of the Dead' is certainly among the most depressing music I have heard, maybe inspired by his 3-year depression because of his first symphony's awful reception.


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## Abraham Lincoln

polonois said:


> I believe Rachmaninov has to be mentionned. His 'Isle of the Dead' is certainly among the most depressing music I have heard, maybe inspired by his 3-year depression because of his first symphony's awful reception.


Rachmaninov's hands are too big to be depressing!


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## Zlatorog

Schumann should be on the list somewhere I think. Not his music necessarily, but for his mental health episodes. Also Schubert's early death is pretty depressing.


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## Frei aber froh

Woah, four pages and Shostakovich hasn't been mentioned yet?


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## Fugue Meister

Frei aber froh said:


> Woah, four pages and Shostakovich hasn't been mentioned yet?


I did, guess you didn't see it. It's post #8. He's my go to for dreariness.


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## DeepR

Isle of the Dead is very dramatic and has a wonderfully gloomy atmosphere, but I'd not call it depressing. I would say music is depressing when there's absolutely no comfort or hope to be found. Isle of the Dead still has a certain warmth that makes me want to linger around in the world it creates.


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## Abraham Lincoln

DeepR said:


> Isle of the Dead is very dramatic and has a wonderfully gloomy atmosphere, but I'd not call it depressing. I would say music is depressing when there's absolutely no comfort or hope to be found. Isle of the Dead still has a certain warmth that makes me want to linger around in the world it creates.


That's Rachmaninov - he seems all gloomy and unsmiling but actually has a warm heart beneath all that stuff.


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## polonois

DeepR said:


> Isle of the Dead is very dramatic and has a wonderfully gloomy atmosphere, but I'd not call it depressing. I would say music is depressing when there's absolutely no comfort or hope to be found. Isle of the Dead still has a certain warmth that makes me want to linger around in the world it creates.


I understand, I had not aprehended "depressing" that way. Yet I believe that there is no hope in the 5/8 ostinato ; the procession towards death sounds irremediable and monopolizes the soul whole.


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