# Most Ignored Composers on Talk Classical



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Imo, Corelli gets quite ignored here. What other Composers do you think should get more attention?


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Given that there are an enormous number of composers past and present to consider on TalkClassical, we cannot simply assume that one of them is being ignored or should get more attention. Here are a few guesses on Corelli. Imho, on the negative side he composed a number of worthy string concertos and sonatas that strike me as formal and lacking variety. He is one of those composers like Alessandro Scarlatti who feature in textbooks, but less in performance. Successors like Torelli, Albinoni, and Vivaldi have drawn attention from him. On the positive side, Corelli is well recognized in string composition and performance for his Baroque-era genre innovations that stimulated a long and productive tradition in Italy and abroad. As a founder, historians consider him vital. As for us, if a composer deserves more attention, we need to know what's already been done on TalkClassical and what needs to be done.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

I think I am the most ignored composer on TC.

nobody even commented on my Concerto for Vuvuzela and Small Orchestra and my Suite for Vacuum Cleaner and Piano Forte had just one comment: " this really sucks" 😧


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

I've been surprised at some composers having no entry in the Composer Guestbook section. Sir Malcolm Arnold being the most recent.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Roger Knox said:


> Given that there are an enormous number of composers past and present to consider on TalkClassical, we cannot simply assume that one of them is being ignored or should get more attention. Here are a few guesses on Corelli. Imho, on the negative side he composed a number of worthy string concertos and sonatas that strike me as formal and lacking variety. He is one of those composers like Alessandro Scarlatti who feature in textbooks, but less in performance. Successors like Torelli, Albinoni, and Vivaldi have drawn attention from him.


Corelli set the standard for high/late baroque sonata and concerto composition and apparently his collections were the most frequently reprinted music of their time, even into the 2nd half of the 18th century. He was probably the most respected and revered instrumental composer in Europe for about 50 years or more from the 1680s onwards (and also an outlier as baroque music was dominated by vocal genres). In the baroque revival in the mid-20th century the more picturesque and virtuoso Vivaldi concerti became far more popular (whereas in his time Vivaldi had become obscure while still alive!). And very few people care much about baroque chamber music, unless it's Bach or oboe/flute/recorder (because there is not so much repertoire for these woodwinds).


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> I think I am the most ignored composer on TC.
> 
> nobody even commented on my Concerto for Vuvuzela and Small Orchestra and my Suite for Vacuum Cleaner and Piano Forte had just one comment: " this really sucks" 😧


OK I'll go for it. The Vacuum Cleaner has been composed for by Malcolm Arnold but I ignored it. Will be interesting to compare vintages now.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Chilham said:


> I've been surprised at some composers having no entry in the Composer Guestbook section. Sir Malcolm Arnold being the most recent.


There are lot of significant composers missing, e.g. Franz Schmidt the last time I looked. But who is going to do them? Nowadays I feel that I need to have a better sense of what both TC leadership and members want. Perhaps a subject for Area 52.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

I guess that the most overrated word in forums on classical music is "underrated".


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Nate Miller said:


> nobody even commented on my Concerto for Vuvuzela and Small Orchestra ... 😧






Jiri Jakub Zimmerman - Concerto for Vuvuzela and Orchestra


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Remember now in the flute world, Philippe Gaubert (1879-1941) was not only the top French flutist of his time but a conductor and composer. There is no TC Guestbook on him. In addition to his flute catalogue he wrote fine orchestral works, some of which reach beyond the expected. He spent several months in the Basque region learning the music and culture before composing "Au pays Basque" (1931).


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Wow, I was just making that up about the vuvulela concerto, you mean somebody actually wrote one of those??? 😧

wonder how you go about hiring the soloist for that one?


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Pretty much any of the Latin American composers. I seldom see posts on Villa-Lobos, Ginastera, Revueltas, Chávez, Guarnieri, Moncayo, Estévez, Ponce et. al. I'm not going to say they're "underrated" because like @Philidor this is a word that gets tossed around too often, but it does seem they're less talked about for whatever reason.


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Villa-Lobos is pretty well known in the classical guitar community. So is Manuel Ponce

...which would go a long way toward explaining why you hardly ever hear about them


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

There are so many, where to even begin?

Thomas de Hartmann
Ernest Bloch
Jan Dismas Zelenka
CPE Bach


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Roger Knox said:


> Given that there are an enormous number of composers past and present to consider on TalkClassical, we cannot simply assume that one of them is being ignored or should get more attention. Here are a few guesses on Corelli. Imho, on the negative side he composed a number of worthy string concertos and sonatas that strike me as formal and lacking variety. He is one of those composers like *Alessandro Scarlatti* who feature in textbooks, but less in performance. Successors like Torelli, Albinoni, and Vivaldi have drawn attention from him. On the positive side, Corelli is well recognized in string composition and performance for his Baroque-era genre innovations that stimulated a long and productive tradition in Italy and abroad. As a founder, historians consider him vital. As for us, if a composer deserves more attention, we need to know what's already been done on TalkClassical and what needs to be done.


*Scarlatti* is often underrated, sometimes insulted here.

Unjustly so. Listen to this (Sorry, you have to click through to Youtube ( the "Watch on Youtube" button in the lower left of the screen) to watch this four minute piece _there_):


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

pianozach said:


>


The sonata you posted is a work by Domenico Scarlatti. The Scarlatti Roger Knox discusses in his post, (which you quoted), is Alessandro.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Nate Miller said:


> Wow, I was just making that up about the vuvulela concerto, you mean somebody actually wrote one of those??? 😧
> 
> wonder how you go about hiring the soloist for that one?


Go to a Team South Africa soccer game. Better audition them first.


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## Chat Noir (4 mo ago)

Chilham said:


> I've been surprised at some composers having no entry in the Composer Guestbook section. Sir Malcolm Arnold being the most recent.


Wait a minute! Malcom Arnold does have a thread in the composer guestbooks. I posted to the thread on the 6th of October. Many here have posted there:


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Chat Noir said:


> Wait a minute! Malcom Arnold does have a thread in the composer guestbooks. I posted to the thread on the 6th of October. Many here have posted there:


Good to know. It's not linked on the Composer Guestbook listing page.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Not ignored, but discussed less than you would think: Verdi


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Not ignored, but discussed less than you would think: Verdi


Have you been to the opera subforum?


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Kreisler jr said:


> Corelli set the standard for high/late baroque sonata and concerto composition and apparently his collections were the most frequently reprinted music of their time, even into the 2nd half of the 18th century. He was probably the most respected and revered instrumental composer in Europe for about 50 years or more from the 1680s onwards (and also an outlier as baroque music was dominated by vocal genres). In the baroque revival in the mid-20th century the more picturesque and virtuoso Vivaldi concerti became far more popular (whereas in his time Vivaldi had become obscure while still alive!). And very few people care much about baroque chamber music, unless it's Bach or oboe/flute/recorder (because there is not so much repertoire for these woodwinds).


Fair enough, it sounds like we're due for re-consideration of Corelli after having drifted away. At least that's my impression from the TC Composer guestbook entry which needs updating. As I mentioned Alessandro Scarlatti is also a fine composer, in this case of vocal music and as a founder of _opera seria_. Years ago we studied him as the next important Italian opera composer after Monteverdi. But I have the impression in following reviews of his operas that they often don't come off so well on the stage. Anyway his TC Composer Guestbook is slight and needs updating too.

Incidentally, anyone can start a Composer Guestbook -- they usually begin with a composer biography. However, sometimes a post in one of the other Forums can attract more interest. The Index has been updated periodically. I contributed some material to it at one point.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

pianozach said:


> *Scarlatti* is often underrated, sometimes insulted here.
> 
> Unjustly so. Listen to this (Sorry, you have to click through to Youtube ( the "Watch on Youtube" button in the lower left of the screen) to watch this four minute piece _there_):


The repeated notes evoking the Spanish guitar are played perfectly by Argerich! To be sure they're in groups of four, which are not as hard as the often longer triplet groups of Ravel's "Alborada del grazioso" (_Miroirs_). Domenico Scarlatti began by composing operas, following in the footsteps of his father Alessandro. But we're lucky that he was able to follow his passion composing for the harpsichord at the Spanish court. I used to love playing Scarlatti on the piano (as did Horowitz). It annoyed me when a tenured university harpsichordist/professor lectured me about failing to play Scarlatti on the harpsichord.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Many composers receive very little attention or discussion. Scelsi, Honegger, Krenek, Wellesz, Varese, even Monteverdi has gotten very little attention.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Philidor said:


> I guess that the most overrated word in forums on classical music is "underrated".


I'm tempted to start a new thread - The greatest underrated composer of all time.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

hammeredklavier said:


> The sonata you posted is a work by Domenico Scarlatti. The Scarlatti Roger Knox discusses in his post, (which you quoted), is Alessandro.


Ah. Indeed.

I _thought_ the first name seemed 'funny'.


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## Mister Meow (10 mo ago)

I was just thinking about this subject the other day, when it occurred to me that no one talks about King Frederick the Great of Prussia.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Not ignored, but discussed less than you would think: Verdi


You are so right. In fact all Italian composers are rarely discussed, but have composed some of the most beautiful music of any country.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

hammeredklavier said:


> Have you been to the opera subforum?


I think that discussions on the opera forum currently tend to be more about singers, including specialized comparisons of the voices of previous generations of singers in opera repertoire. That's interesting knowledge and Verdi often comes up. There could be more discussion of other aspects of Verdi, possibly on other forums.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

starthrower said:


> Monteverdi


is arguably the most discussed composer, of all his contemporaries. The earliest of the most famous and recommended opera composers on this forum. Someone like Reichardt, on the other hand,— I don't think anyone on this forum had pointed out the proto-Schubertian modulations and proto-Wagnerian continuity in his opera before I did. In fact there seems to have had been no mention of him at all. (It's just my gut feeling, from searching on the forum).


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

neoshredder said:


> Imo, Corelli gets quite ignored here. What other Composers do you think should get more attention?


I do like the Corelli variations from Rach


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

Josef Suk


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

starthrower said:


> Many composers receive very little attention or discussion. Scelsi, Honegger, Krenek, Wellesz, Varese, even Monteverdi has gotten very little attention.


Honegger! Yes, indeed. And when someone does mention him, they'll talk about _Symphony No. 2_, _Pacific 231_ or _Une cantate de Noël_. These three works are all quite fine, but he composed so much more!


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

Another Composer who rarely gets attention is Joseph Martin Kraus. His music is on par with Haydn, who in fact was a great admirer. I have just been listening to the Naxos cd Symphonies Vol.2 and its absolutely mesmerising.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I don't think Bernstein as a composer gets enough attention around here. He wrote some outstanding music, IMHO. People would do well to look beyond _West Side Story_. A whole sonic universe awaits you!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Every composer gets the attention he/ she deserves.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Neo Romanza said:


> I don't think Bernstein as a composer gets enough attention around here. He wrote some outstanding music, IMHO. People would do well to look beyond _West Side Story_. A whole sonic universe awaits you!


I like Bernstein's Sonata for Clarinet and Piano, Symphony "The Age of Anxiety," and Chichester Psalms.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Another ignored composer on Talk Classical and a personal favorite of mine: K. A. Hartmann.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Roger Knox said:


> I like Bernstein's Sonata for Clarinet and Piano, Symphony "The Age of Anxiety," and Chichester Psalms.


All great works. I was just listening to _The Age of Anxiety_ earlier tonight (w/ Zimerman/Rattle) and I continue to marvel at its inventiveness. Any other favorite Bernstein works? My favorite "off-the-beaten-path" Bernstein work is _Halil_, which will never get a mention around here it seems. Also, _Songfest_ doesn't get enough love.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Neo Romanza said:


> All great works. I was just listening to _The Age of Anxiety_ earlier tonight (w/ Zimerman/Rattle) and I continue to marvel at its inventiveness. ...


I heard it a long time ago played by Jeffrey Kahane, American (underrated) pianist in a concert. I continue to marvel at how much negative criticism Bernstein received as both composer and conductor. At a certain point I remember reading a major press interview with Georg Solti, who was practically ordering people to knock it off and give this genius his due -- and it had some effect I think.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Roger Knox said:


> I heard it a long time ago played by Jeffrey Kahane, American (underrated) pianist in a concert. I continue to marvel at how much negative criticism Bernstein received as both composer and conductor. At a certain point I remember reading a major press interview with Georg Solti, who was practically ordering people to knock it off and give this genius his due -- and it had some effect I think.


I think Bernstein received negative press because many critics weren't looking beyond _West Side Story_ or _Candide_ and when they did, they never took the music seriously. There are some gems in his oeuvre. I can't quite get into _Symphony No. 3, "Kaddish"_ or _Mass_ (there's one member here who is obsessed with this work to the point if you say you're not a fan of it, then he has no time for you --- now _this_ is some serious dedication...lol). Another Bernstein masterpiece, IMHO, is _Serenade, after Plato's Symposium_, which is a violin concerto in all but a name. I like his ballets _Fancy Free_, _Facsimile_ and _Dybbuk_ (which uses a numerical technique that is somewhat reminiscent of Schoenberg's 12-tone compositional method). It's also good that you mentioned the chamber music, because, in addition to the _Clarinet Sonata_, I also like the _Violin Sonata_ and _Piano Trio_. Anyway, he's a great composer as far as I'm concerned.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Beethoven or Mozart and especially who's the better of the two.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I never listen to West Side Story. I prefer Candide, as well as his classical compositions. I got to see a performance of Candide back in August of 2018 and it was brilliant! One of the best nights out listening to music in my entire life.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Karl Weigl (1881-1949) was an Austrian composer who emigrated to the USA to escape Nazi oppression. He wrote six symphonies, a number of concertos, much chamber and vocal music. I've enjoyed all of his orchestral music that has been released and especially the suite _Pictures and Tales_. There is no bio yet on Composers and Guestbooks.


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## Floeddie (8 mo ago)

starthrower said:


> I never listen to West Side Story. I prefer Candide, as well as his classical compositions. I got to see a performance of Candide back in August of 2018 and it was brilliant! One of the best nights out listening to music in my entire life.


Though West Side Story was my childhood initiation into Leonard Bernstein, he did write some fine music, like his works for On The Town, and some other media as well.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Granville Bantock who IMO is every bit the equal of Elgar
(IIRC Elgar is quoted as describing Bantock as 'the best of all of us')


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## Alex Kije (Feb 20, 2021)

neoshredder said:


> Imo, Corelli gets quite ignored here. What other Composers do you think should get more attention?


Randall Thompson Symphony #2 (1931) that has movements named for aspects of the Great 30 Depression. Music was used for network radio programs. And David Diamond Symphony #4. Reminds me of soft Southern breezes and river walks down South.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

Alex Kije said:


> Randall Thompson Symphony #2 (1931) that has movements named for aspects of the Great 30 Depression. Music was used for network radio programs. And David Diamond Symphony #4. Reminds me of soft Southern breezes and river walks down South.


Do you know Diamond's _Symphony No. 3_? For me, it's even better than his 4th.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

neoshredder said:


> *Most Ignored Composers on Talk Classical*



Anyone born after 1960.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

If anyone is ignored here on TC, it's the wonderful early baroque composer Heinrich Scheidemann.


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## ronsoccer (Mar 22, 2020)

Red Terror said:


> There are so many, where to even begin?
> 
> Thomas de Hartmann
> Ernest Bloch
> ...


Zelenka is my favorite Baroque composer. I think the fact that very little is known about him, hurts his public "visabilty". Since he had very little formal training makes his works so fresh and different than other composers of his time. His horn parts are wild. Could listen to them all day!


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

eljr said:


> Anyone born after 1960.


Yep, pretty much! There are several members here that like contemporary composers, but not too many from what I've observed, but that's okay. Classical music spans hundreds of years. One can't be expected to keep up with what is happening currently. Honestly, I have a hard enough time keeping up with what happened in the 19th and 20th Centuries to really worry about what is currently happening. There have been some new composers that have popped up here and there that have been interesting to me like Dobrinka Tabakova, Anne Clyne, Thomas Adès, Anna Þorvaldsdóttir, Samuel Andreyev et. al.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Neo Romanza said:


> Yep, pretty much! There are several members here that like contemporary composers, but not too many from what I've observed, but that's okay. Classical music spans hundreds of years. One can't be expected to keep up with what is happening currently. Honestly, I have a hard enough time keeping up with what happened in the 19th and 20th Centuries to really worry about what is currently happening. There have been some new composers that have popped up here and there that have been interesting to me like Dobrinka Tabakova, Anne Clyne, Thomas Adès, Anna Þorvaldsdóttir, Samuel Andreyev et. al.


Seems to me we have it backwards. We should know what goes on around us today and struggle to catch up on all the old stuff that has been around for centuries.


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## DTut (Jan 2, 2011)

Roger Knox said:


> Given that there are an enormous number of composers past and present to consider on TalkClassical, we cannot simply assume that one of them is being ignored or should get more attention. Here are a few guesses on Corelli. Imho, on the negative side he composed a number of worthy string concertos and sonatas that strike me as formal and lacking variety. He is one of those composers like Alessandro Scarlatti who feature in textbooks, but less in performance. Successors like Torelli, Albinoni, and Vivaldi have drawn attention from him. On the positive side, Corelli is well recognized in string composition and performance for his Baroque-era genre innovations that stimulated a long and productive tradition in Italy and abroad. As a founder, historians consider him vital. As for us, if a composer deserves more attention, we need to know what's already been done on TalkClassical and what needs to be done.


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## DTut (Jan 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Imo, Corelli gets quite ignored here. What other Composers do you think should get more attention?


ARNOLD BAX -- November Woods, Tintagel, Symphonies


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

eljr said:


> Anyone born after 1960.


There was quite an obsession here with Alma Deutscher who is a teenager but not much attention for Pulitzer prize winner, Caroline Shaw, aged 40.


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

starthrower said:


> There was quite an obsession here with Alma Deutscher who is a teenager but not much attention for Pulitzer prize winner, Caroline Shaw, aged 40.


As I recall, the obsession with Alma was rather unhealthy. Negative.


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## golfer72 (Jan 27, 2018)

DTut said:


> ARNOLD BAX -- November Woods, Tintagel, Symphonies


Im a big Bax fan. His chamber and piano works are also very good


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

eljr said:


> As I recall, the obsession with Alma was rather unhealthy. Negative.



Full of hatred and venom.


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## Roger Knox (Jul 19, 2017)

Rogerx said:


> Full of hatred and venom.


"We live in an age of bottomless envy."
-- George Steiner


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## eljr (Aug 8, 2015)

Rogerx said:


> Full of hatred and venom.


Something I just don't understand no matter what you may think of the music.


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## PeterKC (Dec 30, 2016)

I try to ignore Reger and Bruckner.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Bearing in mind how illustrious he was during his relatively short career I'm surprised that Kurt Weill isn't represented more on TC. An acquired taste, I suppose - some may dislike his early German cabaret style, others the more commercial Broadway-era output and others both.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

D. Scarlatti probably deserves more talk. His keyboard music is fantastic.


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

I've recently explored the music of Saint-Saens and Bruch and I like what they put out. The more conservative Romantics don't seem to get a lot of attention.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

4chamberedklavier said:


> I've recently explored the music of Saint-Saens...


Saint-Saëns is one of those "potato chip" composers for me in that once you've listened to one of his works, you're ready to listen to another. One of my favorite composers and, for me, a constant source of gratification. Do you know his oeuvre very well? Any favorite works in particular? I did a deep dive into his oeuvre last year and came away with an even greater appreciation for his music. Love him!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Neo Romanza said:


> Saint-Saëns is one of those "potato chip" composers for me in that once you've listened to one of his works, you're ready to listen to another. One of my favorite composers and, for me, a constant source of gratification. Do you know his oeuvre very well? Any favorite works in particular?
> * I did a deep dive into his oeuvre last year and came away with an even greater appreciation for his music. Love him!*


It's addictive, such beautiful music. 🧡


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## 4chamberedklavier (12 mo ago)

Neo Romanza said:


> Saint-Saëns is one of those "potato chip" composers for me in that once you've listened to one of his works, you're ready to listen to another. One of my favorite composers and, for me, a constant source of gratification. Do you know his oeuvre very well? Any favorite works in particular? I did a deep dive into his oeuvre last year and came away with an even greater appreciation for his music. Love him!


I'm fond of his Violin Concerto 3 and Piano Concerto 5


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Rogerx said:


> Every composer gets the attention he/ she deserves.


I often think the same. And I also think that many named in this thread do actually get quite a lot of mention, as much IMO as they merit. But I do agree that Verdi is one true great who fails to engage the interest of many members. This is strange as the forum is probably biased in favour of Romantics ... and indeed many of the complaints here are for Romantics who some members want to be even more mentioned.

There are many composers who I like or love but also realise are not as great as many others: I think it is particularly important when you like a composer to also have some feeling for how great they are, how able they are to make you feel "wow, where did _that _come from?" as well as "I really love that!"


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> I often think the same. And I also think that many named in this thread do actually get quite a lot of mention, as much IMO as they merit. But I do agree that Verdi is one true great who fails to engage the interest of many members. This is strange as the forum is probably biased in favour of Romantics ... and indeed many of the complaints here are for Romantics who some members want to be even more mentioned.
> 
> There are many composers who I like or love but also realise are not as great as many others: I think it is particularly important when you like a composer to also have some feeling for how great they are, how able they are to make you feel "wow, where did _that _come from?" as well as "I really love that!"


If you browse trough the Opera topic.............. I believe there's a right amount of Verdi.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Rogerx said:


> If you browse trough the Opera topic.............. I believe there's a right amount of Verdi.


Yes, maybe. But mention of him outside of that subforum rarely engages many people even if they are generally open to opera.


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