# violinists



## h1478971 (Dec 6, 2009)

Why are there more women than men on average who play violin in modern day symphony orchestras, at least in this country? 

What is so attractive about the violin that girls like it?


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

It is partly because of the lousy pay that playing in orchestras yields in some countries. Here in the UK it has become noticeable that women have been becoming more predominant among orchestral players for around 20 years or more. In other countries men still dominate - one simply cannot generalise a worldwide trend.

Orchestral musicians in the UK are paid very badly (whether 'contracted' in a full-time job or as a freelance player). Men with large families to provide for started to concentrate on 'sessions' (freelance work recording soundtracks for adverts, TV programmes and films), which is MUCH more lucrative. Top session musicians used to earn a very good living. Playing on the soundtrack of, for example, a big Hollywood movie would pay very good money for comparatively little effort. Most such soundtracks were, until recently, usually recorded in the UK, where Union regulations are less draconian than, say, in the USA, where pay rates are lower and musicians can play quite complex music at sight (British musicians are famous for their sight-reading abilities, brought about by a long history of a lack of funding for orchestral music in this country and consequently very few rehearsals). In expensive sessions, time is money and to get a score 'in the can' quickly means a big saving in musicians' fees.

This natural wastage of male musicians away from orchestras and into 'sessions', combined with more women studying music at a high level (and achieving high standards) meant that the dominance of men in orchestras came to an end and that's why you see many more women violinists in orchestras than you would have 25 years ago.


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## hawk (Oct 1, 2007)

I have had the illusion that orchestral musicians were paid quite well. Reading your post DM reveals quite the opposite. In the UK what might the average be?


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I can only speak for the UK, of course, but an average annual salary for a contracted rank-and-file orchestral violinist is in the region of £25,000 per year (around USD 40,000). With property and living costs so high in the UK, this barely represents a subsistence wage.

For freelance musicians, a daily rate would be around £140 (USD 225).

Not much when you consider the years of study and practice and the high level of specialised skill, is it?


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## hawk (Oct 1, 2007)

Not much at all. I was thinking about changing professions maybe learning to play baroque oboe then finding a spot in a well known orchestra. Was'nt going to let the fact that I am 55 years old stop me but now that I see how little they make I think I'll become a surgeon ~  Of course I am just kidding. 
You know when I see orchestras dressed in fancy clothes playing beautiful music in lavishly decorated concert halls there really is an impression that the "Classical Music (general) world" (musicians, composers, conduters and listeners) is just a little above us common folk. This was my impression prior to spending some time with LMP while in England. 

As has been mentioned in various threads here on TC there is a misperception of the classical world today. I am learning that it is a very acessible culture. As someone who plays music as well as having interest in the Old musics of various cultures I am learning that when the apparent differences in musical cultures are not used to isolate and discriminate, in other words if we look beyond first appearance it seems what is at the core of music and musicians is the same....


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

hawk said:


> You know when I see orchestras dressed in fancy clothes playing beautiful music in lavishly decorated concert halls there really is an impression that the "Classical Music (general) world" (musicians, composers, conduters and listeners) is just a little above us common folk. This was my impression prior to spending some time with LMP while in England.


What is your connection to the LMP (London Mozart Players)? A friend and former colleague of mine manages the orchestra.


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## hawk (Oct 1, 2007)

In 2007 as part of Englands commemoration of John Smith and the founding of Jamestown Virginia I was invited to spend 3 weeks in the East Midlands. While there I visted many schools, spent some time with local jazz musicians and was commisioned to make a piece of music to play with LMP. We actually spent 3 days together ~3 evening concerts and various workshops during the day. It was the string section that I worked with.

I have mentioned this story in the past on TC so won't go into full detail as to not bore folks but I will say this had a profound impact on my musical life and in my life in general.

Didn't appreciate classical music prior consequently I did not listen to it. Now it is the ONLY music I listen to (baroque with a little pinch of early classical) and it has influenced what I do with my flutes. I have been working on a body of music for strings and Native flute as well as recently begining to learn classical/baroque flute.
http://www.firebirdtrust.co.uk/content/view/31/51/

Much more to the story....


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## KaerbEmEvig (Dec 15, 2009)

h1478971 said:


> Why are there more women than men on average who play violin in modern day symphony orchestras, at least in this country?
> 
> What is so attractive about the violin that girls like it?


You've asked wrong question. What's so attractive about female violinists? They are hot.:tiphat:


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Imagine you're an impressionable young lad. Which would appeal more to you?


























or


















I'm afraid the violin doesn't have much attraction to male whippersnappers, compared to the overtly sexual thrust of the phallic electric guitar or the primal masculinity of the pummelling of the goatskin.



KaerbEmEvig said:


> You've asked wrong question. What's so attractive about female violinists? They are hot.


Oh, So playing the violin makes them hot. I thought it was just good genes and looking after themselves.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Argus said:


> Oh, So playing the violin makes them hot. I thought it was just good genes and looking after themselves.


I bet those instruments sound awful.


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I bet those instruments sound awful.


oh yes...I hadn't noticed the instruments....


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Chris said:


> oh yes...I hadn't noticed the instruments....


:lol:

Good one.


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