# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Quarterfinal 3): Destinn vs Caballe



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Emmy Destinn, Czech Republic, 1878-1930 (defeated Tetrazzini 13-7)






Montserrat Caballe, Spain, 1933-2018 (defeated Price 15-5)






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I found Destinn too slow, though that helped her diction. Did she have a different score? There were a couple of notes missing from what I remember (were they grace notes or optional?).

Caballe seemed in a different league, the voice being inherently expressive, warmer than Destinn's. Her breath control allows her to bind two phrases together, and execute a lovely _diminuendo_:" Signooooor, aaaaaaah aaaaaah!"

It's Caballe for me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Both excellent but Caballe really stands out here. It is sung with passion, but that peerless legato and the way when so beautifully diminishes the sound at the end of phrases plus the way she magnificently swells the sound at the high note then beautifully gradually shrinks the sound on the descending scale is breathtaking. Speaking of which, she hardly seems to breathe. I must also just mention she sheer beauty of Caballe's instrument, which is shown to great effect here. This is almost getting in Callas's league in my opinion.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm finding myself in a bit of a quandary here. Both performances have considerable virtues, but both have a couple of problems, for me anyway. Destinn's version is deeply felt and I like her cleaner execution of the opening measures, where Caballé here uses a surfeit of portamento. However Destinn ignores the little grace notes on _con fé scinera_ and _tabernacoli sali_ and the ones later on, which Caballé is careful to articulate. On the other hand, and unlike MAS, I don't like the way Caballé joins the two phrases at the climax. Puccini clearly indicates a comma after the word _Signor_ on the climactic Bb, which indicates a breath before the ensuing Ab, and it better expresses Tosca's desperation when it is adhered to. What Caballé does is a vocal feat, no doubt, and displays her superb breath control and perfect focus of the voice, but it takes us away from the drama and brings the concentration back to the singer. That comma is an expressive device and most singers take advantage of it.

Caballé has the more beautiful sound, but Destinn's is not unattractive despite the limitations of the ancient recording. I also feel that Destinn connects better with the emotions of the aria. Caballé is expressive as well, but I don't get the same involvement I get from Destinn. Caballé impresses by dint of her beautiful voice and impeccable control, Destinn _is_ Tosca.

Ultimately I'm giving it to Destinn for her greater emotional involvement, whilst admonishing her for ignoring the grace notes.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I love the vulnerability of Destinn's voice, but Cabale has the better "pipes".


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Destinn offers better role characterization, but sounds somewhat hysterical in places and it's hard to abstract from that impression.
And Caballé's version just takes my breath away by sheer technical ability on display here. But not in a way Callas does - oh no.
So while I cast my vote for Caballé, you know who's the real competition here.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Hooray. For once a no-brainer for me.
I detest screechy top notes and Destinn's "Signor" had me running from the room -- it hurt my ears.
Welcome to the most beautiful "Signor" passage by Caballe. It was gorgeous and right up there with some of the best.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I would just like to add to my comments above that I was finding it really hard to make up my mind and listened several times to both recordings. I thought I was going to come down in favour of Caballé, but eventually decided to go for the greater emotional commitment of Destinn. If Destinn's top Bb sounded screechy I put that down to the limitations of the recording. 

I'd also say that it is rare for composers to indicate exactly where a singer should breathe, but Puccini does so here with the comma after the top Bb. He obviously put it there for a reason.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Destinn's top note is note her best ever, true. Go back and listen to her top notes in D'amor sull'ali rosee and you can hear that she's perfectly capable. Everyone blows it once in a while, especially since she probably had to physically move away from the horn at that moment to avoid blowing it out (a common problem in those days). Her voice is such an enigma to me though. Every time she sings piano or balances towards the headvoice, her voice becomes extremely beautiful, even with the limitations of the recording. Much of this particular aria hangs out right in the middle, where her voice is very solid but just sounds slightly off in a way it's hard for me to describe.

Caballe is certainly capable of shrillness herself. "Quante miserie conobbi..." was harsh, as her forte top notes often were. I agree with Tsaraslondon about the opening phrase. I really like portamento when used well, but I didn't feel that this was a good use of it, especially as she sang "con man furtiva", which repeats the same falling motion, straight. I can't say I loved her "signor" either.

Both diminuendo on the "ah" following the climax. I prefer Destinn's lovely lilt there.

Hm. This made me realize what a difficult aria this is. I have to go with Destinn. I like her straightforwardness here. And honestly, I sometimes find Caballe's voice harsh, and that's the case here.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I don't really like either. However, Caballe's voice is steadier and Destinn makes some odd sounds when the vowels get distorted. I also don't like Destinn's droopy portamenti in the first two phrases. Both seem emotionally connected to that which they are singing, yet Caballe's emotions are more interiorised and this is a moment where a soprano can really let herself go emotionally.

What I find interesting here is that the things others don't like about these recordings don't really bother me, whereas the niggles I have are over other things entirely! (I don't mind Caballe not following the score on 'Signor' as it makes emotional sense the way she sings it, as she obviously believes in her choice, whereas the moment is totally wasted in Destinn's version with the high note coming to an end and the next phrase starts as if she is singing her shopping list.)

I choose Caballe for the better overall technique.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

It's such a short aria that I listened to a few more recordings one after the other to make some comparisons, following along with the score. The ones I chose were Ponselle (1919), Tebaldi (the Molinari-Pradelli recording) Callas (1953 De Sabata), Netrebko (from her Verismo recital) and Gheorghiu (first from her new Eternamente recital - the only track available to listen to on Spotify at the moment, and then the performance from the film).

I didn't get to the end of the Netrebko performance as I couldn't really get past all that falsely darkened, muddy tone. I also quickly discarded the most recent Gheorghiu performance. She is now 56 and frankly she sounds it. The voice isn't aging well and that's why I turned to the older film performance, which I'll discuss in a moment.

Both Ponselle and Tebaldi sing gloriously, Tebaldi at a slightly more spacious tempo, and Callas is in best 1953 voice. All four of these singers articulate the grace notes, though Ponselle inexplicably misses one of them and Tebaldi tends to aspirate them, and all of them stick to the letter of the score at the climax. However both Ponselle and Tebaldi snatch a quick breath before the first syllable of _Signor_ where both Callas and Gheorghiu sing _perche Signor_ in one breath, as Puccini indicated. It's a very small point, but it does show how closely Callas adheres to the printed page. It's also quite interesting that Gheorghiu's performance, in terms of phrasing anyway, is almost exactly the same as Callas's, almost as if she were ghosting the older singer. I wasn't sure about Gheorghiu's performance at the very beginning (voice and intonation seemed a little insecure) but she won me over after the first couple of phrases.

In any case I thought all four ladies would win in a contest with the present two. Predictably Callas was my out and out winner, not only for the emotional conviction and commitment she evinces but also for the way she achieves it whilst simply carrying out all Puccini's markings.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Destinn, for me.

Destinn has a terrific, steady, doleful sound which I find quite moving. She is articulate, too. The absence of the grace notes, as described already by others, are a minus. 

With Caballe, her voice is very beautiful. The beginning and end of the aria are reveries of silky tone and what I take to be pretty remarkable breath support. Compared to Destinn, though, I personally find Caballe's characterization a bit understated. 

Destinn lives it all very vividly: full of exasperation and, indeed, desperation whereas Caballe's is an altogether more resigned meditation. 

Thanks again, Bonetan, for this interesting thread and for the posters so far for your comments - I've really enjoyed reading them!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Although I'm not a fan of Destinn's timbre as represented on recordings (I'm always careful to make that qualification), I was immediately gripped by the plaintiveness of her opening phrases. She continues after that to convey the woundedness of Tosca in a direct way that way makes Caballe's admirable interpretation sound more like just that - an interpretation, something more made than felt. Others have already pointed out some musical and technical features of these performances, so I won't be redundant with them. I'll go with Destinn.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Emmy Destinn is one of the "golden age" singers I'd most like to hear in modern recorded sound - I'm sure her seemingly somewhat whiny sound would gain fullness and resonance - and for that matter to see in performance. She evidently had quite a dramatic presence (you can hear it on her recordings) and Puccini no doubt made a great choice in pairing her with Caruso for the premiere of _Fanciulla._


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Emmy Destinn is one of the "golden age" singers I'd most like to hear in modern recorded sound - I'm sure her seemingly somewhat whiny sound would gain fullness and resonance - and for that matter to see in performance. She evidently had quite a dramatic presence (you can hear it on her recordings) and Puccini no doubt made a great choice in pairing her with Caruso for the premiere of _Fanciulla._


I've also read about her dramatic presence. She hardly looks glamorous here though.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I've also read about her dramatic presence. She hardly looks glamorous here though.


I read something about her ages ago. She apparently had quite an adventurous life. If I recall correctly her life was in danger at some point (a revolution?). I'll have to look it up.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Destinn for me. Caballe's version is very beautiful, but I can't picture her as a Tosca. 

I used to be a sucker for pianissimo, but now I would prefer a bigger voice that could float fuller soft notes (like Destinn here, Tebaldi, Milanov, Callas) to the excessive uses of "detached" pianissimi (like those of Caballe and Gencer).

Unlike some of the previous posters, I don't have any troubles with the timbre of Destinn. I think it is a beautiful, distinctive voice. My minor issue with her is that she doesn't sound exactly Italiante; there seems to be some "Slavic" flavor to it. But I absolutely enjoy her singing in German.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

silentio said:


> Destinn for me. Caballe's version is very beautiful, but I can't picture her as a Tosca.


This is an interesting observation, as whilst I preferred Caballe in this recording of this aria, I'd much rather see/hear Destinn in the complete role than Caballe. There's something about Caballe's approach that works in this aria as a standalone, but it wouldn't work in the role as a whole. I have heard Caballe's recording of the opera, but only once and I can't really remember anything about it.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

silentio said:


> Destinn for me. Caballe's version is very beautiful, but I can't picture her as a Tosca.
> 
> I used to be a sucker for pianissimo, but now I would prefer a bigger voice that could float fuller soft notes (like Destinn here, Tebaldi, Milanov, Callas) to the excessive uses of "detached" pianissimi (like those of Caballe and Gencer).
> 
> Unlike some of the previous posters, I don't have any troubles with the timbre of Destinn. I think it is a beautiful, distinctive voice. My minor issue with her is that she doesn't sound exactly Italiante; there seems to be some "Slavic" flavor to it. But I absolutely enjoy her singing in German


Distinctive it certainly was, but of course we aren't hearing it as it really sounded. Some singers recorded better than others then, so we have to give them the benefit of any doubt. Chances are you'd like her even more in life, but who knows?


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Distinctive it certainly was, but of course we aren't hearing it as it really sounded. Some singers recorded better than others then, so we have to give them the benefit of any doubt. Chances are you'd like her even more in life, but who knows?


Certainly! Even for more modern singers like Milanov and Tebaldi, a few who saw them in the theater stated that the records couldn't fully capture the true beauty of their sounds- most of the magic is lost. Now, we are talking about a lady singing in the 1910s 

Reversely, there was a contemporary singer I used to like a lot. I attended her concert with the same program in the recital disc she had released only a few months earlier. Then, I realized that the "magic" in her voice was the creation of the studio - _by the producers._


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> Destinn for me. Caballe's version is very beautiful, but I can't picture her as a Tosca.
> 
> .


I remember seeing her as Tosca on TV many years ago, in a telecast of Covent Garden's Zeffirelli production (the one mounted for Callas and Gobbi) when the Royal Opera visited Tokyo in 1979. Her acting can best be described as stately, and, whilst that might work for Norma, it doesn't really work for Tosca.

I can't remember that much about it, except Tosca's final jump from the battlements, which were up quite a few flights of steps on the set. According to Zeffirelli, in the original production Callas flew up the steps just as one of the guards made a grab for her. At the top, she hurled out her final invocation to Scarpia, and just as another guard ran in from the side she just jumped, not even looking where she was going. It must have been very exciting.

Well, in this version, Caballé started her ascent up the steps before the guards had even started shouting off stage. She lumbered slowly up the steps, sang her last line , then very carefully picked up her skirts, looked down (presumably to check that the mattresses were in place) and then jumped. It provoked titters rather than tears and it was quite amusing watching the guards hld back to make sure they didn't catch her. One shouldn't make fun, but it just goes to show that a production made for one singer won't necessarily suit another. I have no doubt Zeffirelli would have directed the scene differently if he had been directing it for Caballé.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I remember seeing her as Tosca on TV many years ago, in a telecast of Covent Garden's Zeffirelli production (the one mounted for Callas and Gobbi) when the Royal Opera visited Tokyo in 1979. Her acting can best be described as stately, and, whilst that might work for Norma, it doesn't really work for Tosca.
> 
> I can't remember that much about it, except Tosca's final jump from the battlements, which were up quite a few flights of steps on the set. According to Zeffirelli, in the original production Callas flew up the steps just as one of the guards made a grab for her. At the top, she hurled out her final invocation to Scarpia, and just as another guard ran in from the side she just jumped, not even looking where she was going. It must have been very exciting.
> 
> Well, in this version, Caballé started her ascent up the steps before the guards had even started shouting off stage. She lumbered slowly up the steps, sang her last line , then very carefully picked up her skirts, looked down (presumably to check that the mattresses were in place) and then jumped. It provoked titters rather than tears and it was quite amusing watching the guards hld back to make sure they didn't catch her. One shouldn't make fun, but it just goes to show that a production made for one singer won't necessarily suit another. I have no doubt Zeffirelli would have directed the scene differently if he had been directing it for Caballé.


Let's face it, Caballe was somewhat larger than Callas!

I have to confess that the result of this one is surprising me so far though. Destinn is ahead by 1 vote. I found the Destinn recording to be so bad that I couldn't get to the end of it!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Aerobat said:


> Let's face it, Caballe was somewhat larger than Callas!
> 
> I have to confess that the result of this one is surprising me so far though. Destinn is ahead by 1 vote. I found the Destinn recording to be so bad that I couldn't get to the end of it!


Apart from the acoustic recording, which does not flatter her, what exactly do you find bad about Destinn's performance? My major complaints about it is that she ignores the grace notes in the aria (there are actually four, and she doesn't sing one) and the top Bb is admittedly not a great note, but aside from that it is deeply felt and she makes a real connection with the character and the music, and she sounds like a woman _ in extremis_. Caballé's beautifully sung performance sounds like, well just that, a performace. I get no sense of the woman's desperation, her complete dejection. It is admirable as a piece of singing, but doesn't really convey the emotion of the piece.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Apart from the acoustic recording, which does not flatter her, what exactly do you find bad about Destinn's performance? My major complaints about it is that she ignores the grace notes in the aria (there are actually four, and she doesn't sing one) and the top Bb is admittedly not a great note, but aside from that it is deeply felt and she makes a real connection with the character and the music, and she sounds like a woman _ in extremis_. Caballé's beautifully sung performance sounds like, well just that, a performace. I get no sense of the woman's desperation, her complete dejection. It is admirable as a piece of singing, but doesn't really convey the emotion of the piece.


I found the exact opposite! We obviously hear things very differently though. I found Destinn's voice to be 'thin', probably an artefact of the recording process but I can only go with what I'm hearing. Whereas I found Caballe's interpretation to be both beautifully sung and, for me, very deeply expressive. For my ears, neither of them is close to my two favourite interpretations of this - Callas and Gheorghiu, but of these two performers, Caballe *to me* was both more beautifully performed and more expressive.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Aerobat said:


> I found the exact opposite! We obviously hear things very differently though. I found Destinn's voice to be 'thin', probably an artefact of the recording process but I can only go with what I'm hearing. Whereas I found Caballe's interpretation to be both beautifully sung and, for me, very deeply expressive. For my ears, neither of them is close to my two favourite interpretations of this - Callas and Gheorghiu, but of these two performers, Caballe *to me* was both more beautifully performed and more expressive.


I don't know whether you saw my earlier post (#11) where I discussed some more recordings of the aria by Ponselle, Tebaldi, Callas, Gheorghiu and Netrebko. Netrebko was a non starter, but the other four easily outclassed both Destinn and Caballé, though not Gheorghiu's most recent recording, on which she is beginning to sound her age. Gheorghiu's earlier recording (I listened to the one from the film) was interesting in that her phrasing was almost exactly the same as Callas's. Predictably Callas was my favourite, although all four of them are superb.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't know whether you saw my earlier post (#11) where I discussed some more recordings of the aria by Ponselle, Tebaldi, Callas, Gheorghiu and Netrebko. Netrebko was a non starter, but the other four easily outclassed both Destinn and Caballé, though not Gheorghiu's most recent recording, on which she is beginning to sound her age. Gheorghiu's earlier recording (I listened to the one from the film) was interesting in that her phrasing was almost exactly the same as Callas's. Predictably Callas was my favourite, although all four of them are superb.


It is unusual on this Forum in my opinion that singers from this generation of performers are holding their own with the Golden Age of opera. I had no clue that Gheorghiu was so highly thought of. Good for her. It is almost historic LOL


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Good to hear someone tout the virtues of "La Draculette". Perhaps she's less than adored offstage but onstage her voice is the most glorious, vulnerable, sensitive and plaintive of the sopranos of today.
I have not heard her in an opera for several years and do hope the magic in her throat is still there.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> It is unusual on this Forum in my opinion that singers from this generation of performers are holding their own with the Golden Age of opera. I had no clue that Gheorghiu was so highly thought of. Good for her. It is almost historic LOL


I rather like Gheorghiu and have seen her three times in the theatre. The first time was in the secondary role of Nina in Massenet's *Chérubin* and she made a very strong impression, even outshining Maria Bayo, who had the leading soprano role. The next time was the famous *Traviata*, which made her a star. Though I didn't quite go along with all the superlatives, she was well on the way to being a fabulous Violetta, all the vocal demands of the part fully encompassed. She was also a natural actress and it helped that she looked gorgeous too.

Later on I saw her as Adina in *L'Elisir d'Amore* and she was again very fine, but this time a hint of mannerism was creeping in. Her acting was not so natural and she presented a rather too sophisticated figure for the village girl, Amina. Still, she sang gloriously.

Spotify has a track from her latest album on it, which just happens to be _Vissi d'arte_. Nowhere near as good as her performance for the film she made with Alagna and Ruggero Raimondi, I'm afraid. The voice seems to have aged quite a bit.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon:
A very apt description of Gheorghiu's progress. And yes, "the little actress" is more like a "look at me, love me, I am wonderful" act than true depth of feeling.
But that voice.......


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## JanacekTheGreat (Feb 26, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I don't know whether you saw my earlier post (#11) where I discussed some more recordings of the aria by Ponselle, Tebaldi, Callas, Gheorghiu and Netrebko. *Netrebko was a non starter,* but the other four easily outclassed both Destinn and Caballé, though not Gheorghiu's most recent recording, on which she is beginning to sound her age. Gheorghiu's earlier recording (I listened to the one from the film) was interesting in that her phrasing was almost exactly the same as Callas's. Predictably Callas was my favourite, although all four of them are superb.


Does anyone have any idea how come they accept this level of singing at La Scala and The Met?


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

This is just not a voice that has verve and passion to it. I just happen not to hear what the rest of you do about her voice. I find it light and thin but not a Carmen type of voice that appeals to me. (running for cover)


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

I think she sounds okay as Carmen, although it's not a role I would have associated with her. I don't find her voice thin at all. In fact, I think it is rounder and fuller than Caballe. Here's Destinn in a less acoustically dry transfer. Does that make a difference?


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

It's interesting that Destinn's voice can be perceived as thin. In the below Salome excerpts, she sounds "thicker" and fuller (well-coordinated) than Nilsson to me. Just listen to the B-flat at 1:08. Granted, Nilsson has to compete with the orchestra, and it is very difficult to have a fair comparison because there are many confounding factors, but I think it's fair to assess that Destinn's is a very large voice. In the Tosca comparison, it's Caballe who is "thin" IMO. But I have to confess I have never been really warm to Caballe's voice, at least in her studio recordings.











P/S: I am very happy with the civilized discussions we have in these tournaments. I learn so much about differences in taste and am willing to reevaluate my opinions as well.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I happen to prefer this. Hear the chest tones?


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

nina foresti said:


> Good to hear someone tout the virtues of "La Draculette". Perhaps she's less than adored offstage but onstage her voice is the most glorious, vulnerable, sensitive and plaintive of the sopranos of today.
> I have not heard her in an opera for several years and do hope the magic in her throat is still there.


People who know her personally off stage do like her. Some people who work with her don't. I suspect a lot of this is because she has a strong will, knows what she wants and isn't afraid to stand up for what she wants. If she wants to interpret a role in a particular way (e.g. phrasing Vissi D'Arte similarly to Callas) and a director tells her to do it differently, she pushes back.

Is it possible that some directors & other staff have a problem with a very strong willed soprano who knows what she wants??


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

JanacekTheGreat said:


> Does anyone have any idea how come they accept this level of singing at La Scala and The Met?


(Netrebko vids removed to keep post size down)

She's accepted because their audiences love her, despite the appalling tone and dreadful wobbling. If you book Netrebko for a series of performances, she'll ensure that every seat is sold. 10+ years ago her voice was far better than it is today, and this was understandable. Watch her in Lucia from that period - not perfect but far, far better than she is now.

Personally, I'd rather see Oropesa, Yoncheva, Sierra, Schulz, Petibon, Yende, Lezhneva, etc.....

I think Netrebko's days are numbered now that her voice has deteriorated so far, but for now she's still filling the house and selling well.

It's interesting to note another historical singer who was famed for her wobbly top at at times harsh voice is now regarded as an all-time great. I'm young enough to be alive (barring illnesses etc) for some years after Nebs retires. Will be interesting to see how she's remembered in the future.


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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I think she sounds okay as Carmen, although it's not a role I would have associated with her. I don't find her voice thin at all. In fact, I think it is rounder and fuller than Caballe. Here's Destinn in a less acoustically dry transfer. Does that make a difference?


That certainly brings her vocal quality out more, although is still not a recording I'd choose to listen to except to understand the voice better. It has greater clarity, but like most recordings of this era even the orchestra has a wobble - leading me to question how accurately her voice was really captured. I'd not dispute that she was a great performer. But recordings of such poor quality mean that I'm unlikely to listen purely for enjoyment.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> It's interesting that Destinn's voice can be perceived as thin. In the below Salome excerpts, she sounds "thicker" and fuller (well-coordinated) than Nilsson to me. Just listen to the B-flat at 1:08. Granted, Nilsson has to compete with the orchestra, and it is very difficult to have a fair comparison because there are many confounding factors, but I think it's fair to assess that Destinn's is a very large voice. In the Tosca comparison, it's Caballe who is "thin" IMO. But I have to confess I have never been really warm to Caballe's voice, at least in her studio recordings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thin is not a word I would ever use to describe Caballé! :lol:

But seriously, thin is not the word that comes to mind when I think of Caballé's voice, which, at its best , had a gorgeous velvety beauty. Heer greatest years didn't last that long and the voice started to develop a hardness on top, which perhaps explains her overindulgence in those floated high pianissimi. The end of _O patria mia_, when she floats the top C in a way that is truly _dolce_ as Verdi asks, is truly staggering, but you can have too much of a good thing.

Nilsson's is not a voice I have ever warmed to, warmth being one of the things lacking from her voice. That said I'd take her pure funnel of sound on the Bb over Destinn's, which here sounds strained and wavers in pitch, and I don't think that is the fault of the recording.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I happen to prefer this. Hear the chest tones?


Wow! So beautiful and you are right. The photo with the hat has her looking like she just rose from the grave LOL


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Thin is not a word I would ever use to describe Caballé! :lol:
> 
> But seriously, thin is not the word that comes to mind when I think of Caballé's voice, which, at its best , had a gorgeous velvety beauty. Heer greatest years didn't last that long and the voice started to develop a hardness on top, which perhaps explains her overindulgence in those floated high pianissimi. The end of _O patria mia_, when she floats the top C in a way that is truly _dolce_ as Verdi asks, is truly staggering, but you can have too much of a good thing.
> 
> Nilsson's is not a voice I have ever warmed to, warmth being one of the things lacking from her voice. That said I'd take her pure funnel of sound on the Bb over Destinn's, which here sounds strained and wavers in pitch, and I don't think that is the fault of the recording.






 May I suggest sampling Nilsson's singing on this post I made to Youtube that shows of the dark within light quality her live voice had. Start .30 seconds in. It is a revelation. So dark and warm. Her voice was by nature much darker, but as she projected it you heard mostly the brightness if recorded to closely. Only out in the house did the full nature of her voice reconstitute.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> May I suggest sampling Nilsson's singing on this post I made to Youtube that shows of the dark within light quality her live voice had. Start .30 seconds in. It is a revelation. So dark and warm. Her voice was by nature much darker, but as she projected it you heard mostly the brightness if recorded to closely. Only out in the house did the full nature of her voice reconstitute.


I'm willing to believe that, and in fact your not the first person to have told me that. I suppose I don't listen to her thay mch because the repertoire she was best at (Wagner and Strauss's Elektra) I don't listen to that often, and in any case there are other sopranos I prefer as both Isolde and Brünnhilde. I'm afraid, aside from Turandot, I don't really like her in Italian opera and even here I prefer Sutherland.

I'm sure I've related this story before, but I once went to a Q & A session with Nilsson and Regina Resnik at the Crush Bar in Covent Garden. They were both retired by this time. The first half was the Q&A and the second was a short masterclass featuring three or four young singers. She and Resnik were hilarious in the frst half and gave out some good advice to the young singers, however one of them was decidedly not in the same league. As she finished (I think she sang _Suicidio!_) Nilsson blurted out, "My dear, are you having singing lessons?". You could tell it was completely involantary because the audience tittered and then she quickly came in kindly with something like, "Well of course you are. I'm just not sure this is the right repertoire for you." The poor girl must have been crushed but I really don't know why she had been chosen.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

vivalagentenuova said:


> I think she sounds okay as Carmen, although it's not a role I would have associated with her. I don't find her voice thin at all. In fact, I think it is rounder and fuller than Caballe. Here's Destinn in a less acoustically dry transfer. Does that make a difference?


Judging from this, Destinn would have had great projection in the house. I'm thinking of Birgit Nilsson, standing and listening to a recording of herself recorded by the acoustic process, horrified and saying "that's terrible!," and vowing that she would never laugh at old recordings again. If Destinn sounds as good as this via acoustic horn, shellac and cactus needle, she must have been a force heard live.


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