# Mahler: Where to begin



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Hello all,

So I've been listening to a lot of new (to me) classical music this year and have up to this point been putting off trying Mahler. I've listened to a couple of his symphonies once in my life and it seemed so heavy and long at the time that I figured I'm just give it some time and try again.

This thread by Knorf has got me curious to try again.

So I'm asking the TC collective for advice on where to start. My impression of Mahler prior to this point was that his symphonies were really really long and dense. I'm figuring I maybe started in the wrong place. Can any of you suggest an easy symphony for beginners and perhaps your choice of recording.

Also, I'm noticing that Ivan Fischer/Budapest Festival Orchestra is on sale at presto. I saw him come up on Knorf's thread a few times. Anyone with experience in this series care to weigh in on what they consider their favorites?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I had no idea that Mahler's vocal music was such a big deal. I'm not really a fan of almost all choral music and opera, so I'm not sure how much that would help me, but I will try some of the suggestions.


----------



## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Do like I did, start with the shortest and most lyrical: Mahler 4. The George Szell recording featuring Judith Raskin ruined all other Mahler 4ths for me. I'm not a huge Szell fan, but his version is beautifully balanced and well-seasoned (Szell was also a gourmet chef you know).


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Coach G said:


> Do like I did, start with the shortest and most lyrical: Mahler 4. The George Szell recording featuring Judith Raskin ruined all other Mahler 4ths for me. I'm not a huge Szell fan, but his version is beautifully balanced and well-seasoned (Szell was also a gourmet chef you know).


I'd second this. The First is another good place to start.

Yoel Levi on Telarc has recorded both symphonies with the Atlanta Symphony, great performances, not expensive and beautifully recorded as well.

Otherwise, what about songs? There's a nice collection of the three song cycles on DG, with Boulez conducting and featuring different singers for each cycle:


----------



## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

I would also start with Mahler's 4th. Although I am a huge Szell fan, the recording with Maazel, the Vienna Philharmonic and Kathleen Battle ruined all other Mahler 4th's for me. I would start with the Mahler 4th with Maazel/VPO/Battle.

Caveat: It took years before I really enjoyed Mahler, but the aforementioned recording was the one that did it. Well, that and Mahler's 2nd with the New York Philharmonic and Bruno Walther, although that might be a bit too much if you're new to Mahler.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

It's hard to know what piece of music will open the floodgates and suck you in to Mahler's world? I struggled with a number of aborted attempts trying to get in to the music. The No.10 Adagio did it for me but maybe not for others? To my ears all of the symphonies have memorable opening themes so maybe start from the beginning and see what happens.


----------



## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

If I were you, I would start with No. 1. It seems completely logical to start where the composer did, and move up the symphonies, as you develop your knowledge of his style while Mahler develops his.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

No. 1 or No. 4 would be my recommendation, but if you're struggling with the length and density of it all start with the Rückert-Lieder and Kindertotenlieder to get a taste of Mahler's late-Romantic aesthetic.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> No. 1 or No. 4 would be my recommendation, but if you're struggling with the length and density of it all start with the Rückert-Lieder and Kindertotenlieder to get a taste of Mahler's late-Romantic aesthetic.


Mahler's 1st was my intro and I still think it's his most easily approachable symphony.

If you like lieder and/or opera, I'd really recommend Mahler's song cycles as well. Mahler, like Wagner and Strauss, was very good at reflecting text through music. His song cycles are very marvellous and thought-provoking works. When you listen to them sometime, follow the text translation (most of them should be available online) - makes the experience even more otherworldly . I would recommend _Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen_ or _Rückert-lieder_. _Kindertotenlieder_ is thematically extremely heavy, although based on Rückert's poems as well. That Boulez song cycle disc recommended above is indeed very marvellous!

Even if you don't start liking Mahler after trying the suggestions in this thread, give yourself some time to get used to the heavy late Romantics. Listen to Strauss, Wagner, Bruckner and I think that if you really start liking at least one of them, you'll eventually find Mahler appealing as well.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Agreed, Annaw! That Boulez Lieder disc is stupendous! In fact I bought both (the other Lieder disc includes no.10 Adagio) along with Bernstein's No.1 and No.5 discs when I first got started.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Ulfilas said:


> Otherwise, what about songs? There's a nice collection of the three song cycles on DG, with Boulez conducting and featuring different singers for each cycle:
> 
> View attachment 144719


I'll look at your suggestions, thanks. I'm not really into classical vocal music lieder, choral, opera but I'll probably give them a shot in the interest of giving it a sincere try.



SearsPoncho said:


> I would also start with Mahler's 4th. Although I am a huge Szell fan, the recording with Maazel, the Vienna Philharmonic and Kathleen Battle ruined all other Mahler 4th's for me. I would start with the Mahler 4th with Maazel/VPO/Battle.
> 
> Caveat: It took years before I really enjoyed Mahler, but the aforementioned recording was the one that did it. Well, that and Mahler's 2nd with the New York Philharmonic and Bruno Walther, although that might be a bit too much if you're new to Mahler.


Yeah, the 2nd was the first thing I ever tried from Mahler since it was so high up on the TC symphony list. I didn't really care for it at the time.



annaw said:


> Mahler's 1st was my intro and I still think it's his most easily approachable symphony.
> 
> If you like lieder and/or opera, I'd really recommend Mahler's song cycles as well. Mahler, like Wagner and Strauss, was very good at reflecting text through music. His song cycles are very marvellous and thought-provoking works. When you listen to them sometime, follow the text translation (most of them should be available online) - makes the experience even more otherworldly . I would recommend _Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen_ or _Rückert-lieder_. _Kindertotenlieder_ is thematically extremely heavy, although based on Rückert's poems as well. That Boulez song cycle disc recommended above is indeed very marvellous!
> 
> Even if you don't start liking Mahler after trying the suggestions in this thread, give yourself some time to get used to the heavy late Romantics. Listen to Strauss, Wagner, Bruckner and I think that if you really start liking at least one of them, you'll eventually find Mahler appealing as well.


This is good advice, thanks. Yeah, I'm not into vocal music, I edited the OP to reflect that as I didn't realize how much people listened to his vocal works.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I'll look at your suggestions, thanks. I'm not really into classical vocal music lieder, choral, opera but I'll probably give them a shot in the interest of giving it a sincere try.


Unfortunately, that means that there are only five (or six if we're including the 10th) symphonies by Mahler that you will enjoy But I still recommend the 4th to start, and if you really hate the finale I think ending on the Adagio would work just as well. It's one of Mahler's greatest and most eloquent movements.


----------



## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Another vote for the 4th. It's almost bucolic in its approach apart from the last movement.

My favourite is Klemperer/Schwarzkopf/Philharmonia


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

This video may be a good intro for you as well. If you're not interested you can skip past all his musicological explanations and just listen to the most beautiful moments.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Unfortunately, that means that there are only five (or six if we're including the 10th) symphonies by Mahler that you will enjoy But I still recommend the 4th to start, and if you really hate the finale I think ending on the Adagio would work just as well. It's one of Mahler's greatest and most eloquent movements.


I can handle some singing, I just don't see myself getting into lieder.


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Alternatively, you could try isolated movements and work your way out from there.

Symphony No. 1 --- 2nd movement (short and tuneful)
Symphony No. 2 -- 2nd and third movements (ditto, but extremely Mahlerian)
Symphony No. 4 -- First movement (wonderfully weird) and third movement (slowish and heavenly but not at all boring)
Symphony No. 5 -- Movement 4 (slow but short, hackneyed), Movement 5 (kind of a carnival ride)
Symphony No. 9 -- Movement 2 (a folk dance by a peasant in gallumphy boots), movement 3 (wildly ferocious)

If any appeal to you, listen to the rest of the work and see what sticks.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> This video may be a good intro for you as well. If you're not interested you can skip past all his musicological explanations and just listen to the most beautiful moments.


Listening now. Thanks

ETA: There's hope for me. That was a great video. And the excerpt from the 8th that went into the choral section was fine by me.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I can handle some singing, I just don't see myself getting into lieder.


When you hear it with the orchestration you may change your mind.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I started with #2....at the time of JFK'S DEATH....I was in 10th grade....the whole assassination was a huge, tragic event....school was cancelled...the TV was filled non-stop with his death and related news...however, we were kids, and couldn't stay glued to the boob tube incessantly 24/7....so we scheduled football game for the afternoon ....I was getting ready to go play football, when suddenly, Bernstein and NYPO came on TV, playing this incredible music...for contractual reasons, it was billed as the "Columbia Symphony", but it was definitely the NYPO - all the heavy hitters were in there - Gomberg, Vacchiano, Chambers, Drucker, Zegler, etc....they were really going at it...tho I still did not know what the music was....at the conclusion, they announced <<Mahler Sym #2, mvt I>>. I was totally blown away, never heard anything like it....it was a pivotal point in my life, I decided at that point (tho I wasn't really consciously aware at the time) that I wanted to make music like that...I soon picked up Walter's NYPO recording, and listened to it every day for the next month at least...(bless my parents ...they never once complained!!) ....oh, yes, we did have our football game
..it was pretty rough as I recall...1 broken arm, a broken wrist, concussions, etc....Mahler won by 3 touchdowns!!
The point is - just dive in...also....you don't need to bite off more than you can chew...with Mahler, one movement at a time can be most effective...


----------



## Axter (Jan 15, 2020)

I myself jumped right in the cold water with Mahler and never looked back! 
The 5th symphony in a concert when Sir Georg Solti was on tour with CSO, in Vienna Nov. 1990. 
After the symphony I started purchasing the 5th symph. 70ies recording CSO/Solti, then moved to 6th and 1st, and 9th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.
Thats how I did and each time I took my time with each symphony. To this day 5th is my absolute favourite.

I recommend to start with 1st and listen to it a few times and then move on to the non vocal ones 5th, 6th, 9th, and 7th. 
I put 7th on purpose in the end, its very Mahlerian... 
The thing with Mahler is once you understand the background of the work and read a bit about the symphony before listening to it, you are going to appreciate it even more.

I recommend - purely personal taste/recommendation - the following recordings:
1st Solti/LSO.
5th Solti/CSO or Bernstein/VPO.
6th Solti/CSO or Bernstein/VPO.
9th Bernstein/NYPO or BPO.
7th Bernstein/VPO.

Happy listening.... !


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> This video may be a good intro for you as well. If you're not interested you can skip past all his musicological explanations and just listen to the most beautiful moments.


This video is one of the things that first got me curious about Mahler early last year 

@OP, we've already talked about this but I highly recommend starting with No.4 and No.1. No.4 will maybe give you a better glimpse of what Mahler was all about; it's perhaps more fully developed, whereas with the first he was still somewhat finding himself (though it's an amazing work as well).

By the way, it was his Lieder, not his symphonies, that first convinced me of Mahler's importance as a composer. I used to have a prejudice against classical music with vocals too.


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> This is good advice, thanks. Yeah, I'm not into vocal music, I edited the OP to reflect that as I didn't realize how much people listened to his vocal works.


Definitely give Mahler's song cycles a try . I didn't like opera at all when I first got into Schubert's lieder. Classical singing might sound awkward at first but it's definitely possible to get used to it.

Mahler's works have also a huge extra musical background which might help you to get a better grasp of his music. Mahler composed in the tradition of Wagner's programmatic music and, similarly to Wagner, hid very deep and personal ideas inside his works.

Listening to Mahler's work with attention to both the work's background and the music might help you to understand and get immersed in Mahler's world better. Mahler's colourful orchestration and Romantic idiom are very enjoyable when you finally "get" them.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Heck148 said:


> I started with #2....at the time of JFK'S DEATH....I was in 10th grade....the whole assassination was a huge, tragic event....school was cancelled...the TV was filled non-stop with his death and related news...however, we were kids, and couldn't stay glued to the boob tube incessantly 24/7....so we scheduled football game for the afternoon ....I was getting ready to go play football, when suddenly, Bernstein and NYPO came on TV, playing this incredible music...for contractual reasons, it was billed as the "Columbia Symphony", but it was definitely the NYPO - all the heavy hitters were in there - Gomberg, Vacchiano, Chambers, Drucker, Zegler, etc....they were really going at it...tho I still did not know what the music was....at the conclusion, they announced <<Mahler Sym #2, mvt I>>. I was totally blown away, never heard anything like it....it was a pivotal point in my life, I decided at that point (tho I wasn't really consciously aware at the time) that I wanted to make music like that...I soon picked up Walter's NYPO recording, and listened to it every day for the next month at least...(bless my parents ...they never once complained!!) ....oh, yes, we did have our football game
> ..it was pretty rough as I recall...1 broken arm, a broken wrist, concussions, etc....Mahler won by 3 touchdowns!!
> The point is - just dive in...also....you don't need to bite off more than you can chew...with Mahler, one movement at a time can be most effective...


Bernstein, Mahler 2, tv broadcast. My introduction to Mahler and a lifelong love of Mahler's music and that includes the 8th.:lol:


----------



## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Barbebleu said:


> Bernstein, Mahler 2, tv broadcast. My introduction to Mahler and a lifelong love of Mahler's music and that includes the 8th.:lol:


Yes! Another person who enjoys the 8th :lol: !


----------



## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

...another 8th fan here.


----------



## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

In what was a typical 'run before you can walk' greenhorn move on my part I started with the 8th. I was both surprised and happy that I managed to come back from that.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

In order symphonies 1, 4 and 9. This will give you an idea of all his temperaments.

If you like the first and not others, don't spend much time on him.

If you like the 4th try the 2nd or the song cycle Songs of the Wayfarer.

If you like the 9th you are ready for his lengthy, multilayered works. You can go anywhere after that.


----------



## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> I started with #2....at the time of JFK'S DEATH....I was in 10th grade....the whole assassination was a huge, tragic event....school was cancelled...the TV was filled non-stop with his death and related news...however, we were kids, and couldn't stay glued to the boob tube incessantly 24/7....so we scheduled football game for the afternoon ....I was getting ready to go play football, when suddenly, Bernstein and NYPO came on TV, playing this incredible music...for contractual reasons, it was billed as the "Columbia Symphony", but it was definitely the NYPO - all the heavy hitters were in there - Gomberg, Vacchiano, Chambers, Drucker, Zegler, etc....they were really going at it...tho I still did not know what the music was....at the conclusion, they announced <<Mahler Sym #2, mvt I>>. I was totally blown away, never heard anything like it....it was a pivotal point in my life, I decided at that point (tho I wasn't really consciously aware at the time) that I wanted to make music like that...I soon picked up Walter's NYPO recording, and listened to it every day for the next month at least...(bless my parents ...they never once complained!!) ....oh, yes, we did have our football game
> ..it was pretty rough as I recall...1 broken arm, a broken wrist, concussions, etc....Mahler won by 3 touchdowns!!
> The point is - just dive in...also....you don't need to bite off more than you can chew...with Mahler, one movement at a time can be most effective...


Yes, and Bernstein conducted Mahler's famous Adagietto from the 5th Symphony for Bobby Kennedy's funeral. It might seem a bit like a greatest hits move, but why not listen to what so many people find moving. Getting into Mahler can be difficult. Why not choose the path of least resistance to get started and go from there? The Adagietto from Mahler's 5th.


----------



## Pyotr (Feb 26, 2013)

MarkW said:


> Alternatively, you could try isolated movements and work your way out from there.
> 
> Symphony No. 1 --- 2nd movement (short and tuneful)
> Symphony No. 2 -- 2nd and third movements (ditto, but extremely Mahlerian)
> ...


I agree with this. Take a movement at a time. You'll go through many aborted attempts if you try to bite off more than you can chew.

Good luck.


----------



## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Agree with others that the 1st and the 4th are the best place to start if you're new to Mahler. The first movement of the 2nd and the fourth movement of the 3rd ("O Mensch!") are also a good introduction to the two sides of his symphonic writing, the purely instrumental and the vocal.


----------



## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

Also I advise reading up a bit first. It was important for me to understand that he was, in his symphonies, attempting to 'cover all life' and that a single symphony can move through 'the ecstatic, the tragic, the gay, the naïve, the complex, the philosophic, the ironic and sardonic.' Prior to that understanding I tended to find his symphonies incoherent and bemusing.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

juliante said:


> Also I advise reading up a bit first. It was important for me to understand that he was, in his symphonies, attempting to 'cover all life' and that a single symphony can move through 'the ecstatic, the tragic, the gay, the naïve, the complex, the philosophic, the ironic and sardonic.' Prior to that understanding I tended to find his symphonies incoherent and bemusing.


Any suggestions for a website to do said reading?


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

What other music DO you listen to a lot? When anyone has asked me where to start with Mahler, I always recommend the Third. You can listen to it movement by movement and not take it all in at once. It's gloriously orchestrated and a joy for the ear. Full of beautiful music. Get one of Bernstein's recordings.

Or...get one of the really good box sets: Bernstein, Bertini, Inbal, Chailly...put the headphones on, get rid of all distractions and just wallow in the magnificence.


----------



## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Coach G said:


> Do like I did, start with the shortest and most lyrical: Mahler 4. The George Szell recording featuring Judith Raskin ruined all other Mahler 4ths for me. I'm not a huge Szell fan, but his version is beautifully balanced and well-seasoned (Szell was also a gourmet chef you know).


He also disliked Mahler's music apparently (I heard that from a relative of Ms.Raskin who taught me at college many moons ago), which makes his professionalism in turning out such a well-regarded recording all the more remarkable.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> What other music DO you listen to a lot?


For symphonic: Brahms, Beethoven, Dvorak, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev are probably what I listen to most. I'm constantly trying new things as everything is still pretty new to me. I'm always looking to expand my horizons. New composers I've been trying out (ie bought music and am listening to): Martinu, Dutilleux, Bax, Vaughan Williams, Nielsen and Britten. Their music seems pretty approachable to me compared to say Shostakovitch, Mahler and Bruckner. Though for Shosty and to some extent Mahler it's more for tonal reasons, where Bruckner is just long works.

I really am not much for a lot of the modern post tonal, avant garde kind of stuff but I'm open to music that is not just classical/romantic. I really enjoy the orchestral music of Debussy and Ravel for example.

Not sure if this helps.


----------



## musichal (Oct 17, 2020)

Somehow, for me, listening to Bruckner's symphonies led me to Mahler - and others. I liked it so much it put me in an exploratory mindset, wondering who/what else I'd been missing. And though yet relatively new to Mahler myself, lately it has been the Symphony of a Thousand that keeps calling me.


----------



## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

The Rückert-Lieder might be a good place to start.


----------



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I can handle some singing, I just don't see myself getting into lieder.


I completely understand this statement. I have revisited Lieder of various composers multiple times throughout my life and it just never rang a bell with me. I can appreciate a great voice, but I don't necessarily enjoy it. Which is why Opera stays off in the distance for me. I love a great aria, and I REALLY enjoy great choral works. I'm not a fan of Schubert Lieder, Das Kalgende Lied, Ruckertlieder, or even Das Lied Von Der Erde (some would say Mahler's greatest work).

However, I have never been turned off by any of his Symphonies due to the songs. In fact, I feel they only add to the greatness of his symphonies. It's the same reason why I love almost all of Bach's Choral works. So, I get it. Just keep exploring. Maybe one day my tastes will change when it comes to Lieder. Heck, I never cared for chamber music, and that's starting to change.

Enjoy the exploration.

V


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Ok. So I'm listening to the first...first. I already had a box of Seiji Ozawa/Boston with his Mahler 1 and I'm listening to Honeck/Pittsburgh now. I have to say that Honeck's is really nice. 

Do any of you have a recommendation for your favorite Mahler #1? It is hard to find a thread specifically on the first.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

You might want to look up Tony Duggan's commentary on the Mahler symphonies. I haven't listened to a lot of recordings but I like Boulez, and Tennstedt.

Also in the Recorded Music section there is a thread with recommendations on all the symphonies from each poster.


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

Try Jens Laurson's Mahler survey on Ionarts

Ozawa's Mahler is pretty good the 8th is the best available imo, and 1-3 and 7-9 are all great.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> Do any of you have a recommendation for your favorite Mahler #1? It is hard to find a thread specifically on the first.


Best for my money is Bruno Walter '54, NY but as a newcomer to the work you should hear his 1960 Columbia stereo recording which is less fiery than six years before but still captures the warm Bruno nostalgia. Barbirolli and Kubelik are also up there.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Best for my money is Bruno Walter '54, NY but as a newcomer to the work you should hear his 1960 Columbia stereo recording which is less fiery than six years before but still captures the warm Bruno nostalgia. Barbirolli and Kubelik are also up there.


You had me at Bruno.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> Ok. So I'm listening to the first...first. I already had a box of Seiji Ozawa/Boston with his Mahler 1 and I'm listening to Honeck/Pittsburgh now. I have to say that Honeck's is really nice.
> 
> Do any of you have a recommendation for your favorite Mahler #1? It is hard to find a thread specifically on the first.


Kubelik/Bavarian is an amazing Mahler 1, either on Audite (live) or DG (studio). Another great one is Walter/Columbia.


----------



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

The problem with OPs like this is that you end up getting as many different answers as there are responders or possible answers, whichever is greater.

As to threads about the Mahler 1st, DavidA did a series of threads, one per Mahler symphony.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Becca said:


> As to threads about the Mahler 1st, DavidA did a series of threads, one per Mahler symphony.


Thanks. I just found them and am reposting below for cross-indexing

Mahler 1
https://www.talkclassical.com/58896-mahler-symphonies-no-1-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 2
https://www.talkclassical.com/58983-mahler-symphony-2-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 3
https://www.talkclassical.com/59125-mahler-symphony-3-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 4
https://www.talkclassical.com/59185-mahler-symphony-no-4-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 5
https://www.talkclassical.com/59260-mahler-symphony-5-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 6
https://www.talkclassical.com/59293-mahler-symphony-no-6-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 7
https://www.talkclassical.com/59343-mahler-symphony-no-7-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 8
https://www.talkclassical.com/59353-mahler-symphony-8-a.html?highlight=

Mahler Das Lied von Der Erde
https://www.talkclassical.com/57601-mahler-das-lied-von.html?highlight=

Mahler 9
https://www.talkclassical.com/59356-mahler-symphony-no-9-a.html?highlight=

Mahler 10
https://www.talkclassical.com/59420-mahler-symphony-no-10-a.html?highlight=


----------



## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> Any suggestions for a website to do said reading?


Not apart from here no . Books is where i've done all my CM learning from. There is a thread on books.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

So I've listened to #1 with Ozawa, Honeck and I also downloaded Bruno/Columbia last night and have listened to it twice now. This is a great work. I think I'm going to get Kubelik and just hang out with this for a while before trying something else. There's some really beautiful parts in this symphony. I appreciate all the suggestions.


----------



## Saxman (Jun 11, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> So I've listened to #1 with Ozawa, Honeck and I also downloaded Bruno/Columbia last night and have listened to it twice now. This is a great work. I think I'm going to get Kubelik and just hang out with this for a while before trying something else. There's some really beautiful parts in this symphony. I appreciate all the suggestions.


My own suggestion is to watch a performance on video. I found this environment helpful. Abbado performed a number of the symphonies prior to his death (and they were all video recorded), but there are numerous videos on youtube.

I also like the suggestion about reading up about Mahler and the symphonies. Even wikipedia will be helpful here as there may be stuff going on that you are not aware of and this will help you understand it better. Greater understanding usually leads to greater appreciation.

Finally, Kubelik on #1 is good, but the sound is a bit congested. Also, there is another Kubelik recording on Audite that some prefer more to his DG (in case you want to explore that).


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

After a couple of weeks of listening to different recordings of Mahler 1, I took a shot at Mahler 4 today...Fritz.








I enjoyed this very much. There may be hope for Mahler and I.


----------



## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> After a couple of weeks of listening to different recordings of Mahler 1, I took a shot at Mahler 4 today...Fritz.
> View attachment 145470
> 
> 
> I enjoyed this very much. There may be hope for Mahler and I.


My favorite Mahler 4.....Walter/NYPO is good also..


----------



## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> After a couple of weeks of listening to different recordings of Mahler 1, I took a shot at Mahler 4 today...Fritz.
> View attachment 145470
> 
> 
> I enjoyed this very much. There may be hope for Mahler and I.


My favorite piece of all time, glad you enjoyed


----------



## AlexD (Nov 6, 2011)

Mahler 2, 8 & 9 are my favourites. I can live without hearing his 1st ever again. 

The sheer power of the choral singing on the 8th is just magical and spellbinding. The 2nd - just grabs me by the throat and pulls me in and the 9th is a little gentler.

Not sure if that helps much - but I agree that the 4th is also a good one 
too. Quite different in tone from the others.

Just the 1st movement of the 2nd gives me goosebumps.


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

I'll make a custom Mahler list for you based on the composers it seems you enjoy. One moment.


----------



## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Here's a full custom list you may enjoy, BlackAdderLXX, with Mahler pieces also highlighted.
source: Talk Classical Charts

1	Mozart: Requiem Mass in D minor, K. 626 [1791]
2	Beethoven: Symphony #6 "Pastoral" in F, op. 68 [1808]
3	Brahms: Symphony #4 in E minor, op. 98 [1885]
4	Beethoven: Symphony #9 in D minor, op. 125 "Choral" [1824]
5	Beethoven: Symphony #3 in E-flat, op. 55 "Eroica" [1803]
6	Brahms: Symphony #3 in F, op. 90 [1883]
7	Brahms: Symphony #1 in C minor, op. 68 [1876]
8	Mozart: Le nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro), K. 492 [1786]
9	Mozart: Don Giovanni [1787]
10	Dvořák: Symphony #9 in E minor, op. 95 "From the New World" [1893]
11	Bach: Brandenburg Concertos, BWV 1046-1051 [1721]
*12	Mahler: Symphony #2 "Resurrection" [1894]*
13	Bach: Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin, BWV 1001-1006 [1720]
14	Brahms: Piano Concerto #2 in B-flat, op. 83 [1881]
15	Beethoven: Symphony #5 in C minor, op. 67 [1808]
16	Schubert: Piano Sonata #21 in B-flat, D. 960 [1828]
17	Schubert: String Quintet in C, D. 956 [1828]
18	Brahms: Piano Quintet in F minor, op. 34 [1864]
19	Beethoven: Piano Concerto #5 in E-flat, op. 73 "Emperor" [1809]
20	Beethoven: Piano Sonata #29 in B-flat, op. 106 "Hammerklavier" [1818]
21	Beethoven: Symphony #7 in A, op. 92 [1812]
22	Brahms: Piano Concerto #1 in D minor, op. 15 [1858]
*23	Mahler: Symphony #9 [1909]*
24	Debussy: Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune (Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun) [1894]
*25	Mahler: Das Lied von der Erde [1909]*
26	Fauré: Requiem in D minor, op. 48 [1890]
27	Bach: Goldberg Variations, BWV 988 [1741-2]
28	Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung):
29	Mozart: Piano Concerto #20 in D minor, K. 466 [1785]
30	Bach: Matthäus-Passion ("St. Matthew Passion"), BWV 244 [1746]
31	Schubert: Winterreise, D. 911 [1827]
32	Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4 in G, op. 58 [1806/7]
33	Bach: Cello Suites, BWV 1007-1012 [1720]
34	Bach: Das wohltemperierte Klavier (The Well-Tempered Clavier), BWV 846-893 [1722, 1742]
35	Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto in E minor, op. 64 [1844]
36	Mozart: Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute), K. 620 [1791]
*37	Mahler: Symphony #5 [1902]*
38	Mozart: Symphony #41 in C, K. 551 "Jupiter" [1788]
39	Brahms: Symphony #2 in D, op. 73 [1877]
40	Stravinsky: Le Sacre du printemps (The Rite of Spring) [1913]
41	Brahms: Cello Sonata #1 in E minor, op. 38 [1865]
42	Mozart: Clarinet Quintet in A, K. 581 [1789]
43	Bruckner: Symphony #8 in C minor, WAB 108 [1890]
44	Vivaldi: Il cimento dell'armonia e dell'inventione, including Le quattro stagioni (The Four Seasons) [1725]
45	Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #1 in B-flat minor, op. 23 [1875]
46	Mozart: Symphony #40 in G minor, K. 550 [1788]
47	Brahms: Clarinet Quintet in B minor, op. 115 [1891]
48	Bach: Mass in B minor, BWV 232 [1749]
49	Tchaikovsky: Symphony #6 "Pathétique" in B minor, op. 74 [1893]
50	Brahms: Ein deutsches Requiem, op. 45 [1868]


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Ethereality said:


> Here's a full custom list you may enjoy, BlackAdderLXX, with Mahler pieces also highlighted.
> source: Talk Classical Charts
> 
> 1	Mozart: Requiem Mass in D minor, K. 626 [1791]
> ...


That was nice of you. Thanks!


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> After a couple of weeks of listening to different recordings of Mahler 1, I took a shot at Mahler 4 today...Fritz.
> View attachment 145470
> 
> 
> I enjoyed this very much. There may be hope for Mahler and I.


That's a great recording. I think your approach is good, focusing on one symphony at a time. If I may offer some advice, maybe try the 2nd next: of the remaining symphonies, all of them are massive, but the 2nd is probably the most approachable. If you absolutely must avoid vocal music, then maybe the 5th. The other remaining instrumental symphonies, 6, 7, 9 & 10 contain some challenges for the new listener, I think. The 5th is quite accessible and contains some beautiful music.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> That's a great recording. I think your approach is good, focusing on one symphony at a time. If I may offer some advice, maybe try the 2nd next: of the remaining symphonies, all of them are massive, but the 2nd is probably the most approachable. If you absolutely must avoid vocal music, then maybe the 5th. The other remaining instrumental symphonies, 6, 7, 9 & 10 contain some challenges for the new listener, I think. The 5th is quite accessible and contains some beautiful music.


Thanks. I may do that. I've actually been listening to some choral music lately to try and find some things I like and with some success. I'm fine with the vocal part in M4 too. It's just the super opera-ish kind of stuff that gets me. Funny thing is that literally the first experience I had with Mahler was the 2nd and it was too much for me at the time but I was also not in a place where I could be patient with it either. Anyway I have a recording of it that I haven't heard yet, I may give it a try in a week or so. I have a handful of M4s to listen to still!


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> Thanks. I may do that. I've actually been listening to some choral music lately to try and find some things I like and with some success. I'm fine with the vocal part in M4 too. It's just the super opera-ish kind of stuff that gets me. Funny thing is that literally the first experience I had with Mahler was the 2nd and it was too much for me at the time but I was also not in a place where I could be patient with it either. Anyway I have a recording of it that I haven't heard yet, I may give it a try in a week or so. I have a handful of M4s to listen to still!


My favorite 4ths are that Reiner/Chicago, Bernstein/New York, and Szell/Cleveland. I hope those are in your stack somewhere.


----------



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> My favorite 4ths are that Reiner/Chicago, Bernstein/New York, and Szell/Cleveland. I hope those are in your stack somewhere.


I've got the Reiner and the Szell. The Reiner is amazing, just downloaded the Szell and haven't listened to it yet.


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> I've got the Reiner and the Szell. The Reiner is amazing, just downloaded the Szell and haven't listened to it yet.


Definitely check out some of Bernstein's Mahler as well. His 4th (with New York, not the DG with Concertgebouw) would be a great place to start, if you haven't already.


----------



## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

flamencosketches said:


> Definitely check out some of Bernstein's Mahler as well. His 4th (with New York, not the DG with Concertgebouw) would be a great place to start, if you haven't already.


I have started in a few ways (they first got me to listen to nr. 1 and I passed on it, then nr. 3 ... didn't connect), but this one certainly worked for me. I tried his fifth after that (the 1987 one DG 477 6334) and I enjoyed it. I am a relative newbie , so I can't pass judgement.
I have now tried the Barshai , which I thought was top as the adagietto wasn't as slow


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I just listened to all the Mahler symphonies and would go back to 1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 easily.


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

SixFootScowl said:


> I just listened to all the Mahler symphonies and would go back to 1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 easily.


Me too. And I would add 2, 3, 8 and 9 for good measure!:lol: I just treated myself to the Bernstein Sony box. I already had the DG box. Love Mahler. Love Bernstein. Yay!

Oops, I forgot Cooke's performing 10th.


----------



## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

But to start, 2. Big tunes, the alto solo breathtaking and then the big Auferstehung, unbeatable.
Grew up with, of all things, Abravanel and Utah with Kopleff (very fine) and Sills. Not so great when heard now but it had me entranced when I was a teen.


----------

