# The Talk Classical Complaints Department



## Tapkaara

Gotta beef with the forum? Express your concerns here!

Happy bitching, everyone!


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## Elgarian

I'd like to complain about the fact that we've not been getting enough complaints recently.

Or was that too _many_ complaints? I forget.

Hmmm.

Right. I want to complain about the fact that we've either been getting too many complaints recently, or not enough. And I want it to be sorted out, and I want it sorted out _now_.


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## Tapkaara

My complaint is that if we got more complaints there would, naturally, as a result, be less things to complain about.


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## Elgarian

Tapkaara said:


> My complaint is that if we got more complaints there would, naturally, as a result, be less things to complain about.


Exactly. My most serious worry is that you've trapped us both into an endless loop of self-fulfilling complaint-making from which I see no way out. I shall certainly complain about _that_, once I've finished complaining about everything else.


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## Polednice

I would like to complain about the fact that whenever we have a discussion, everybody doesn't immediately agree with everything I say.


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## Elgarian

Polednice said:


> whenever we have a discussion, everybody doesn't immediately agree with everything I say.


I disagree with that statement.


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## Polednice

Elgarian said:


> I disagree with that statement.


See, look at the problem - it's ridiculous. People have no right to disagree with me. How are you going to fix this TC?


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## KaerbEmEvig

Polednice said:


> See, look at the problem - it's ridiculous. People have no right to disagree with me. How are you going to fix this TC?


Grant you the mod privileges, I assume. They may not agree with you but it will certainly look as if they did.


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## Elgarian

Polednice said:


> See, look at the problem - it's ridiculous.


No it isn't.



> People have no right to disagree with me.


Yes they do.



> How are you going to fix this TC?


We need another thread to address the problems experienced by people who complain about the complaints thread.


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## Fsharpmajor

Elgarian said:


> We need another thread to address the problems experienced by people who complain about the complaints thread.


And another thread to address the problems experienced by people who complain about the thread which addresses problems experienced by people who complain about the complaints thread.


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## Polednice

Fsharpmajor said:


> And another thread to address the problems experienced by people who complain about the thread which addresses problems experienced by people who complain about the complaints thread.


Given the amount of work this will cause the moderators to have, I think it would just be better if everyone who has proven themselves trustworthy - i.e. those who have made at least 10 posts - is given full administrator privileges.


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## Elgarian

Polednice said:


> Given the amount of work this will cause the moderators to have, I think it would just be better if everyone who has proven themselves trustworthy - i.e. those who have made at least 10 posts - is given full administrator privileges.


Yes, good solution - together with a dozen thermonuclear devices of their own choosing. (It's no use bestowing authority without the muscle to back it up, is it?)


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## hansjuergen

I agree with everything that has been said in this thread so far.


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## Fsharpmajor

hansjuergen said:


> I agree with everything that has been said in this thread so far.


*Well, as it happens, I don't!*


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## handlebar

I came here for an argument!
Oh, I'm sorry ,this is abuse.


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## Artemis

I don't have any complaints, but I thought it possibly worth reporting that on another classical music forum there was a recent complaint by one of its members that the No 1 forum according to Google is Talk-Classical, and theirs isn't even listed on the first page of Google. 

This was funny enough but I had great difficulty restraining myself from falling over in a fit of laughter when I saw that they're trying to work out a "plan" to change the situation. Heaven knows what loony ideas might emerge. I suppose it's possibly just as well T-C has some members with feet in both camps to keep an eye on such things.


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## Lukecash12

I have a serious beef with this forum: Where is all the beef? I don't see any damned cattle. For God's sake, I want a hamburger! I'm starting to think we have a few cows in disguise here... And now that I've made it clear I want a hamburger, they probably will never come out of hiding now...

Whoever you are, show yourself you imposter!


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## David58117

I've got 2 complaints:

1. I've never heard the term "art music" until I came here - what is it? If I remember reading correctly (and I may be wrong, this was some time ago and I cannot find the source), it's a replacement term for the word "Classical music" because "Classical is a period." If so - please stop using it. It's esoteric and really unnecessary. I believe "Classical Music" is a phrase entirely different from "classical period," already, without the need to introduce new terms. I know the phrase wasn't invented here, but...why continue it?

2. What's with the hate on box sets? As I said in another thread, it's not uncommon to see one individual advise against a particular box set, and instead recommend that the person "piece" together their collection...often recommending components that are already included in the box set they previously dismissed! I'm primarily thinking of big box sets like the Brilliant Classics Complete Editions series. I gave an example about the Haydn set in that particular thread. The Symphonies and String Quartets included in it are well recorded and regarded, and together ALONE cost $60-80 USD MORE than buying the Haydn set outright...which also includes much much more quality material than just those two! Yet some people would advise others to skip the set entirely because of possible "unevenness" and to acquire what they can individually. Yes, I know and have been burned before by cheap, poor recorded box sets - *but they are not all like this!* Please don't use blanket terms to describe them, and unless you have *specific knowledge about the one in question,* please *do not* advise against it. Provide a review, say "I've heard that set has quality issues," but don't say - "box sets are generally uneven - skip it."

That's all for now. I'm sure I'll add more, I generally have a lot of beef with you people (just kidding, somewhat).


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## Polednice

David58117 said:


> 1. I've never heard the term "art music" until I came here - what is it? If I remember reading correctly (and I may be wrong, this was some time ago and I cannot find the source), it's a replacement term for the word "Classical music" because "Classical is a period." If so - please stop using it. It's esoteric and really unnecessary. I believe "Classical Music" is a phrase entirely different from "classical period," already, without the need to introduce new terms. I know the phrase wasn't invented here, but...why continue it?


If it's used to mean exactly the same thing as 'classical music', then it is, of course, no more esoteric - both terms must be the same. And, for people who happen to prefer to use it, does it matter? If everything in the world was distilled so that all we had left were it's most essential and necessary parts with no superfluous components at all, it would be an incredibly dull place indeed. I don't need to type the sentence I'm writing now, but I'm going to do it anyway because I want to; I want to because I like unnecessary things.


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## Lukecash12

Polednice said:


> I don't need to type the sentence I'm writing now, but I'm going to do it anyway because I want to; I want to because I like unnecessary things.


It wasn't necessary for me to quote this. But I did it. So there, deal with it


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## TresPicos

Polednice said:


> I don't need to type the sentence I'm writing now, but I'm going to do it anyway because I want to; I want to because I like unnecessary things.


I have a similar inclination, but towards superfluous things.


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## rojo

Why don't I have any chocolate?

Oh, complaints about the forum.. sorry, I thought this was for general complaints. (I'd hate to be in _his_ army.)


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## Air

rojo said:


> Why don't I have any chocolate?


Maybe because it's Lent?

I don't have any either.


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## Elgarian

rojo said:


> I thought this was for general complaints. (I'd hate to be in _his_ army.)


Understandable. This thread is, after all, the first port of call for anyone with private grievances or major problems.


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## kingtim

I'm just impressed a forum actually supports people's ability to have complaints.

Very pleased with hearing this... good work guys!


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## rojo

^ Is that a complaint about other forums? Because if your post is not a complaint, it's off-topic, and that would warrant a complaint. 


Air said:


> Maybe because it's Lent?
> 
> I don't have any either.


Never mind, Easter's coming up. Plenty of chocolate bunnies to go round. 



Elgarian said:


> Understandable. This thread is, after all, the first port of call for anyone with private grievances or major problems.


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## Air

rojo said:


> ^ Is that a complaint about other forums? Because if your post is not a complaint, it's off-topic, and that would warrant a complaint.


Stop complaining.


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## Lukecash12

Air said:


> Stop complaining.


Stop complaining about other people complaining and join in on the fun of complaining, you lousy little complainer. Understand?


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## jhar26

My biggest complaint of all is that I still didn't receive that free cd box set that I believe you are supposed to get when you join this forum. :angry:


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## Bgroovy2

I would like to post a complaint about the stupid posts in this thread


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## Elgarian

jhar26 said:


> My biggest complaint of all is that I still didn't receive that free cd box set that I believe you are supposed to get when you join this forum. :angry:


I think it must still be in the post, like mine.


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## Elgarian

Bgroovy2 said:


> I would like to post a complaint about the stupid posts in this thread


I'd like to complain that there aren't _enough_ stupid posts in this thread.


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## Aramis

Elephants are large land mammals in two genera of the family Elephantidae: Elephas and Loxodonta. Three species of elephant are living today: the African Bush Elephant, the African Forest Elephant and the Asian Elephant (also known as the Indian Elephant). All other species and genera of Elephantidae are extinct, some since the last ice age: dwarf forms of mammoths may have survived as late as 2,000 BC. Elephants and other Elephantidae were once classified with other thick-skinned animals in a now invalid order, Pachydermata.

Elephants are the largest land animals now living. The elephant's gestation period is 22 months, the longest of any land animal. At birth it is common for an elephant calf to weigh 120 kilograms (260 lb). They typically live for 50 to 70 years, but the oldest recorded elephant lived for 82 years. The largest elephant ever recorded was shot in Angola in 1956. This male weighed about 12,000 kilograms (26,000 lb), with a shoulder height of 4.2 metres (14 ft), a metre (yard) taller than the average male African elephant. The smallest elephants, about the size of a calf or a large pig, were a prehistoric species that lived on the island of Crete during the Pleistocene epoch.

The elephant has appeared in cultures across the world. They are a symbol of wisdom in Asian cultures and are famed for their memory and intelligence, where they are thought to be on par with cetaceans and hominids. Aristotle once said the elephant was "the beast which passeth all others in wit and mind". The word "elephant" has its origins in the Greek ἐλέφας, meaning "ivory" or "elephant".

Healthy adult elephants have no natural predators, although lions may take calves or weak individuals. They are, however, increasingly threatened by human intrusion and poaching. Once numbering in the millions, the African elephant population has dwindled to between 470,000 and 690,000 individuals according to a March 2007 estimate. While the elephant is a protected species worldwide, with restrictions in place on capture, domestic use, and trade in products such as ivory, there has been an increase in poaching in recent years, perhaps attributable to the CITES reopening of "one time" ivory stock sales. Certain African nations report a decrease of their elephant populations by as much as two-thirds, and populations in even some protected areas are in danger of being eliminated. Since recent poaching has increased by as much as 45%, the current population is unknown (2008).

The proboscis, or trunk, is a fusion of the nose and upper lip, elongated and specialized to become the elephant's most important and versatile appendage. African elephants are equipped with two fingerlike projections at the tip of their trunk, while Asians have only one. According to biologists, the elephant's trunk may have over forty thousand individual muscles in it, making it sensitive enough to pick up a single blade of grass, yet strong enough to rip the branches off a tree. Some sources indicate that the correct number of muscles in an elephant's trunk is closer to one hundred thousand. Most herbivores (plant eaters, like the elephant) possess teeth adapted for cutting and tearing off plant materials. However, except for the very young or infirm, elephants always use their trunks to tear up their food and then place it in their mouth. They will graze on grass or reach up into trees to grasp leaves, fruit, or entire branches. If the desired food item is too high up, the elephant will wrap its trunk around the tree or branch and shake its food loose or sometimes simply knock the tree down altogether.

The trunk is also used for drinking. Elephants suck water up into the trunk-up to 14 litres (15 quarts) at a time-and then blow it into their mouth. Elephants also suck up water to spray on their body during bathing. On top of this watery coating, the animal will then spray dirt and mud, which dries off and acts as a protective sunscreen. When swimming, the trunk makes an excellent snorkel.

This appendage also plays a key role in many social interactions. Familiar elephants will greet each other by entwining their trunks, much like a handshake. They also use them while play-wrestling, caressing during courtship and mother-child interactions, and for dominance displays-a raised trunk can be a warning or threat, while a lowered trunk can be a sign of submission. Elephants can defend themselves very well by flailing their trunk at unwanted intruders or by grasping and flinging them.

An elephant also relies on its trunk for its highly developed sense of smell. By raising the trunk up in the air and swiveling it from side to side, like a periscope, it can determine the location of friends, enemies, and food sources.

The mating season is short and females are only able to conceive for a few days each year. She will detach herself from the herd. The scent of the female (cow) elephant in heat (or estrus) attracts the male and she also uses audible signals to attract the male. As the female can usually outrun the male, she does not have to mate with every male that approaches her.

The male initiates the courtship and the female ignores him for several minutes. He then stops and starts again. Elephants display a range of affectionate interactions, such as nuzzling, trunk intertwining, and placing their trunks in each other's mouths.

In a rarely observed display of his affection, he may drape his trunk outside of his tusks during the ritual (image 1). The interactions may last for 20-30 minutes and do not necessarily result in the male mounting the female, though he may demonstrate arousal during the ritual.

The female elephant is not passive in the ritual and uses the same techniques as the male.

African as well as Asiatic males will engage in same-sex bonding and mounting. The encounters are analogous to heterosexual bouts, one male often extending his trunk along the other's back and pushing forward with his tusks to signify his intention to mount. Unlike heterosexual relations, which are always of a fleeting nature, those between males result in a "companionship", consisting of an older individual and one or two younger, attendant males. Same-sex relations are common and frequent in both sexes, with Asiatic elephants in captivity devoting roughly 46% of sexual encounters to same-sex activity.

Rogue elephant is a term for a lone, violently aggressive wild elephant. It is a calque of the Sinhala term hora aliya. Its introduction to English has been attributed by the Oxford English Dictionary to Sir James Emerson Tennent, but this usage may have been pre-dated by William Sirr.

With a mass just over 5 kg (11 lb), elephant brains are larger than those of any other land animal. A wide variety of behaviours associated with intelligence have been attributed to elephants, including those associated with grief, making music, art, altruism, allomothering, play, use of tools, compassion and self-awareness. Elephants may be on a par with other intelligent species, such as cetaceans and non-human primates. The largest areas in the elephant brain are those responsible for hearing, smell and movement coordination.


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## Andy Loochazee

Talking about elephants, this is the latest thing in "potty training for elephants".

Meet "Betty", the elephant keeper, who believes that prevention is better than cure. Well, it does save time on clearing up afterwards, doesn't it?


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## Lukecash12

Bgroovy2 said:


> I would like to post a complaint about the stupid posts in this thread


What a stupid post


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## jurianbai

on topic reply:

I like to complain about double post of the composer in Composer's guestbook board. Can they being merge so each composer only got one guestbook? also in one might sticky post above this board, can somebody put an index to existing composer.


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## Artemis

jurianbai said:


> I like to complain about double post of the composer in Composer's guestbook board. Can they being merge so each composer only got one guestbook? also in one might sticky post above this board, can somebody put an index to existing composer.


That sounds like a serious complaint. You can't be serious about making it here.


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## Bgroovy2

This thread smells like elephant poo !


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## TresPicos

Too many threads are missing a *poll*, including this one! Much too often we are left completely in the dark regarding the current standings and even the final result of different threads.

For example, take a look at this thread. Without a poll, you actually have to read each and every post to find out who won, and in this case we're just plain lucky that such a tie-breaker quote on Schoenberg's music happened to appear in post #9.

A forum dedicated to classical music surely must have higher standards than other forums, and it's crucial that we all begin to put more focus on doing away with all ambiguity and confusion here on TalkClassical.

One thing is clear - Johann Sebastian Bach would not approve! :angry:


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## Andy Loochazee

Another problem I have just thought of is that with all these complaints coming in right left and centre T-C will need to appoint a *"Complaints Manager"* to deal with them.

Now of course, the job could simply be carried out by the existing team. But this hardly seems fair as they're already hard-working and severely underpaid.

So my idea is this. Wait for it.

It's a

It's a

It's a radio controlled rattlesnake (Eastern Diamondback to be precise; very nasty piece of work). Here it is:










This one is only a baby but it's the right size to fit in the box for international despatch from Denmark by UPS.

Each member who looks remotely dodgy (i.e. any potential trouble-maker) wil have his normally posting priviledges curtailed for a temporary period pending the arrival of the snake.

The little critter inside will be quite safe until the batteries are inserted. Even then it will be quite safe. You just place it next to your desktop or whatever, and try to observe the Forum's Rules.

It won't do anything until the T-C Management send an electronic signal triggered by any abuse of Forum Rules, ad homs etc. Then the little so-and-so will come out its box and bite the living daylights out anyone in its tracks. Its venom is lethal.

I'm still working on the fine details but would welcome any feedback on the basic idea thus far. Do you think it will be an effective deterrent to any further violations of Forum Rules? Will the complaints cease? Are there any EU rules that need to be satisfied? What if it bites the wrong person in the household? Is it effective against elephant poo?

I am aware of these technicalities but I thought the basic idea was so brilliant that I just had to share it with you at this early stage of development.

Don't all rush at the same time.


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## Polednice

Andy Loochazee said:


> I'm still working on the fine details but would welcome any feedback on the basic idea thus far.


Hmm... it's a very intriguing idea! Though perhaps a little more complicated than necessary... I was thinking more along the lines of a good old letter-bomb for anyone who misbehaves.


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## World Violist

Andy Loochazee said:


> Another problem I have just thought of is that with all these complaints coming in right left and centre T-C will need to appoint a *"Complaints Manager"* to deal with them.
> 
> Now of course, the job could simply be carried out by the existing team. But this hardly seems fair as they're already hard-working and severely underpaid.
> 
> So my idea is this. Wait for it.
> 
> It's a
> 
> It's a
> 
> It's a radio controlled rattlesnake (Eastern Diamondback to be precise; very nasty piece of work). Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is only a baby but it's the right size to fit in the box for international despatch from Denmark by UPS.
> 
> Each member who looks remotely dodgy (i.e. any potential trouble-maker) wil have his normally posting priviledges curtailed for a temporary period pending the arrival of the snake.
> 
> The little critter inside will be quite safe until the batteries are inserted. Even then it will be quite safe. You just place it next to your desktop or whatever, and try to observe the Forum's Rules.
> 
> It won't do anything until the T-C Management send an electronic signal triggered by any abuse of Forum Rules, ad homs etc. Then the little so-and-so will come out its box and bite the living daylights out anyone in its tracks. Its venom is lethal.
> 
> I'm still working on the fine details but would welcome any feedback on the basic idea thus far. Do you think it will be an effective deterrent to any further violations of Forum Rules? Will the complaints cease? Are there any EU rules that need to be satisfied? What if it bites the wrong person in the household? Is it effective against elephant poo?
> 
> I am aware of these technicalities but I thought the basic idea was so brilliant that I just had to share it with you at this early stage of development.
> 
> Don't all rush at the same time.


... CRIKEY!!!

Now that's out of the way...

I like the idea... but why lethal? We want to teach our resident criminals a lesson, not kill them outright. I propose you make the venom slightly less lethal, so it just leaves the ad-homer (hehe) etc. paralyzed for about a day or so. Whenever he/she ad-homs again, the same thing will happen, leaving him/her paralyzed _and_ thinking: "Well darn, maybe I should stop ad-homing?" _That's_ what we're aiming for here, I think.

Maybe there should be a strike system: after five major offences, the snakes venom somehow magically becomes deadly. Good luck with that.

Or we could just send one of your elephants to do the job...


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## World Violist

Lukecash12 said:


> I have a serious beef with this forum: Where is all the beef? I don't see any damned cattle. For God's sake, I want a hamburger! I'm starting to think we have a few cows in disguise here... And now that I've made it clear I want a hamburger, they probably will never come out of hiding now...
> 
> Whoever you are, show yourself you imposter!


For goodness' sake, what's for dinner NOW???


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## Lukecash12

World Violist said:


> ... CRIKEY!!!
> 
> Now that's out of the way...
> 
> I like the idea... but why lethal? We want to teach our resident criminals a lesson, not kill them outright. I propose you make the venom slightly less lethal, so it just leaves the ad-homer (hehe) etc. paralyzed for about a day or so. Whenever he/she ad-homs again, the same thing will happen, leaving him/her paralyzed _and_ thinking: "Well darn, maybe I should stop ad-homing?" _That's_ what we're aiming for here, I think.
> 
> Maybe there should be a strike system: after five major offences, the snakes venom somehow magically becomes deadly. Good luck with that.
> 
> Or we could just send one of your elephants to do the job...


I say we just sick *William Wallace* on them all!


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## jurianbai

(2nd attempt):

I like to complaint the possibility I LOL in this forum is now higher than my other forum (notable my heavymetal forum), it's very concerning.


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## Andy Loochazee

World Violist said:


> ... CRIKEY!!!
> 
> Now that's out of the way...
> 
> I like the idea... but why lethal? We want to teach our resident criminals a lesson, not kill them outright. I propose you make the venom slightly less lethal, so it just leaves the ad-homer (hehe) etc. paralyzed for about a day or so. Whenever he/she ad-homs again, the same thing will happen, leaving him/her paralyzed _and_ thinking: "Well darn, maybe I should stop ad-homing?" _That's_ what we're aiming for here, I think.
> 
> Maybe there should be a strike system: after five major offences, the snakes venom somehow magically becomes deadly. Good luck with that.
> 
> Or we could just send one of your elephants to do the job...


A quick update on the snake situation.

I ordered a sample product which arrived today. It came with two AA size batteries and 200 doses of venom in individual capsules.

I thought I'd try it out, so I put the batteries in and one dose of the venom. Immediately its little eyes opened up and winked at me, and I thought "ah, how sweet".

I was distracted for a few minutes and when I got back I found the snake had somehow activated itself into full dynamic mode and attacked my cat (Florence) which lay dead with its feet up in the air.

I next heard a loud shriek from my next door neighbour who was running off down the road in obvious distress being chased hard by the snake. In desperation I chased after both of them armed with a trash can lid which I quickly grabbed. When I caught up with them I lunged in a very daring forward roll and landed in a manner by which I managed to decapitate the snake, with sparks flashing everywhere.

A sad end, but there you go. I can't see T-C management feeling too happy with this somewhat unreliable situation. They'd soon run of trash can lids for a start. So I guess that's the end of that idea.

Not to disappoint, I've had a further thought about how to deal with stupid complaints and/or people who break the Forum Rules, in a manner which aims to minimise valuable management time so they focus their energies on more important issues.

In a phrase: delegate the job to the Mafia and let any naughty people swim with the fishes










Do I need to say any more?


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## Sid James

Can someone remove the "Happy New Year 2010" notice? It's obviously old & stale now...


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## Lukecash12

Andy Loochazee said:


> A quick update on the snake situation.
> 
> I ordered a sample product which arrived today. It came with two AA size batteries and 200 doses of venom in individual capsules.
> 
> I thought I'd try it out, so I put the batteries in and one dose of the venom. Immediately its little eyes opened up and winked at me, and I thought "ah, how sweet".
> 
> I was distracted for a few minutes and when I got back I found the snake had somehow activated itself into full dynamic mode and attacked my cat (Florence) which lay dead with its feet up in the air.
> 
> I next heard a loud shriek from my next door neighbour who was running off down the road in obvious distress being chased hard by the snake. In desperation I chased after both of them armed with a trash can lid which I quickly grabbed. When I caught up with them I lunged in a very daring forward roll and landed in a manner by which I managed to decapitate the snake, with sparks flashing everywhere.
> 
> A sad end, but there you go. I can't see T-C management feeling too happy with this somewhat unreliable situation. They'd soon run of trash can lids for a start. So I guess that's the end of that idea.
> 
> Not to disappoint, I've had a further thought about how to deal with stupid complaints and/or people who break the Forum Rules, in a manner which aims to minimise valuable management time so they focus their energies on more important issues.
> 
> In a phrase: delegate the job to the Mafia and let any naughty people swim with the fishes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do I need to say any more?


Here's the problem: Who is going to come up with the money required to pay the kind of mafia fees we would be looking at? Not only that, but once we are associated with the mafia, we will soon thereafter be "coerced" into paying protection money, we will probably get into trouble with rival families, and in conclusion: a few heads would need to roll for us to survive as an organization.

Now, if you really want to do this, delegate the job to me, give me a condo in Rio, wire half a million into my Schweiz bank account, send over a few respectable wiseguys, and I might consider the job.  That is, of course, if you pay up front. We want this to be legit, perfectly legal, not like some amateur's petty crime syndicate.


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## graaf

Well... I'd like to complain about 
1) those audiophiles who haven't noticed (while listening to a CD) that people in the audience cough, but they still need equipment priced (not necessarily worth) 10.000euro
2) those audiophiles who haven't noticed (while listening to a CD) that people in the audience cough, but they still insist that MP3 is not god enough for their ears
3) people with prejudices about classical music and about people who listen to it
4) people who actually listen classical music for snob-ish reasons (also often claiming that anything else is crap) and thus feed above mentioned with prejudices
5) myself, for allowing to be annoyed with all mentioned above.
cheers!


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## KaerbEmEvig

You can hear footsteps in Blechacz's Chopin's e-moll recording.


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## Andy Loochazee

KaerbEmEvig said:


> You can hear footsteps in Blechacz's Chopin's e-moll recording.


We can't have that. It sounds like it could be worth getting the Mafia onto it soon, don't you think.

Or what about the Spanish Inquisition? NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!


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## KaerbEmEvig

Not sure, would have to consult this with the ministry of silly walks.


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## Tapkaara

KaerbEmEvig said:


> Not sure, would have to consult this with the ministry of silly walks.


Here come the Monty Python references...


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## graaf

Tapkaara said:


> Here come the Monty Python references...


it would be a sin not to make one


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## TresPicos

Okay, fine. 

Now for something completely different: what actually happened to the beef? Was there any in the first place, or was it all made up?


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## Andy Loochazee

TresPicos said:


> Okay, fine.
> 
> Now for something completely different: what actually happened to the beef? Was there any in the first place, or was it all made up?


There sure was. Here he is. It makes a lot more sense than all the **** on the current 4'33'' thread. I'm going to send him over there soon to sort them all out.


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## World Violist

Andy Loochazee said:


> Or what about the Spanish Inquisition? NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!


I vote Spanish Inquisition. Adds a bit of variety. If we want to keep people on their toes, we need variety. Therefore we need the Spanish Inquisition.


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## Bgroovy2

World Violist said:


> I vote Spanish Inquisition. Adds a bit of variety. If we want to keep people on their toes, we need variety. Therefore we need the Spanish Inquisition.


So you actually like Iron Maiden?


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## starry

graaf said:


> it would be a sin not to make one


Not that big a fan of Monty Python although some things can be absurdly funny I suppose, shame about the silly line at the bottom of the picture though.


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## World Violist

Bgroovy2 said:


> So you actually like Iron Maiden?


If you're referring to the torture device then in this situation... anything is up for grabs.


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## TresPicos

Two months without a post in this thread! What kind of forum is this?! 

Not very "classical" IMHO. Clearly, this is not why I joined TC.


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## Herkku

Perhaps there is not enough to complain about. I have expressed my feelings that Opera on DVD should have a sub-forum of it's own. Otherwise i'm quite content.


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## jhar26

Maybe it could be an "opera and ballet on DVD" sub-forum. Not that I have much ballet on DVD or know anything about it, but it might result in the occasional post about this genre as well, and it could be useful for getting recommendations every now and then.


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## Herkku

There is so much material on Opera on DVD, that I would keep them apart. Not that I would have seen many messages about Ballet on DVD! So, maybe it wouldn't bother so much.


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## Krummhorn

You know, any member can create their own Social Group within the forum. The subject matter can be most anything the member wants. Just another idea


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## bantian602

oh ,cool staff thanks for sharing


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## bantian602

wow ,just speak loudly


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## mstar

No more complaints!!!! YAAAAYYY!!!!  

(Except for the one coming up complaining about me posting on this thread at all....)


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## Blancrocher

Well done, mstar--you secured the only "likes" in this thread so far. You've made this my first pleasant visit to a complaints department, so I assure you they're deserved.


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## mstar

Blancrocher said:


> Well done, mstar--you secured the only "likes" in this thread so far. You've made this my first pleasant visit to a complaints department, so I assure you they're deserved.


I was going to like that, but it would break my record. :lol:

Anyway, I'd like to complain about shouting! Aaaahhhhhh! (ooooohhhh Taggart's not going to like this post. Sorry in advance!!)


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## clavichorder

What are *you* looking at?


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## Blancrocher

mstar said:


> I was going to like that, but it would break my record. :lol:


Well, your victory has proved short-lived, my friend. I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted!


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## Guest

I would like to complain in the strongest possible terms. 
I remain, Sirs, absolutely outraged.


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## mstar

Blancrocher said:


> Well, your victory has proved short-lived, my friend. I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted!


Hey, hey it was a good victory. And *I'm complaining about Blancrocher breaking my record on purpose!!!!!!*


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## mstar

talkinghead said:


> i would like to complain in the strongest possible terms.
> I remain, sirs, absolutely outraged.


WHY?........................aaaaeo


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## TresPicos

Blancrocher said:


> Well done, mstar--you secured the only "likes" in this thread so far. You've made this my first pleasant visit to a complaints department, so I assure you they're deserved.


No longer true. I just liked an old post from 2010.

I would like to complain about the fact that posts from the era before likes were introduced are not liked enough. We should all go back and re-read all old posts to see if we like them and therefore should like them now. Otherwise, all posters from back-in-the-day will seem less likeable, which is just plain unfair!


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## Guest

mstar said:


> WHY?........................aaaaeo


I haven't found a topic to complain about yet, but when I do, I shall complain, oh yes!


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## mstar

I would like to complain that I can't upload a picture from my iPad directly, and make it full-sized!  

I would also like to complain about this post not getting any likes....


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## Blancrocher

TresPicos said:


> No longer true. I just liked an old post from 2010.


Well, given enough time on the forum I'm sure anyone will come off as a liar. It's hard to be consistent _all_ the time.


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## Guest

mstar said:


> I would like to complain that I can't upload a picture from my iPad directly, and make it full-sized!
> I would also like to complain about this post not getting any likes....


Lacking any tangible targets for my as-yet-to-be-defined complaint, I would like to hijack your complaint and complain even more loudly and boorishly about these iPad thingies that you are talking about and their stubborn reluctance to fulfill our every technological desires. I mean, these iPad thingies (what are they again? I've forgotten), never seen 'em, do they really exist, or do they exist only in the minds of the _Illuminati_ and marketing people who ... (rambles on in similar vein, complaining for 92 pages ...)


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## mstar

Blancrocher said:


> Well, given enough time on the forum I'm sure anyone will come off as a liar. It's hard to be consistent _all_ the time.


Well then I'm complaining about Brancrusher indirectly verifying the unverifiable fact that I'm a liar!!!

(No, I have never lied a single time in my entire life!)


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## Blancrocher

mstar said:


> Well then I'm complaining about Brancrusher indirectly verifying the unverifiable fact that I'm a liar!!!
> 
> (No, I have never lied a single time in my entire life!)


Oh dear, mstar--let's make nice before we get trapped in a liar's paradox! That "crusher" really cut to the bone. Nothing a "like" couldn't undo, mind you.


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## mstar

Blancrocher said:


> Oh dear, mstar--let's make nice before we get trapped in a liar's paradox! That "crusher" really cut to the bone. Nothing a "like" couldn't undo, mind you.












Don't forget the bran.


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## Fermat

I realize that different forums handle problems in different ways, but I'm not a fan of the deletion of posts (even those I strongly disagree with). Closing threads and banning people is one thing, but selectively removing comments is quite another. This has happened a lot in the short amount of time I've been here. If it were a question of posts that presented legal problems (such as the posting of certain images or personal threats), it'd be understandable, but that's not been the case in the threads I've seen. It presents such a fundamental conflict with my own values that I am going to have to take a break and reassess why I come to this forum and whether we're a good match. Peace.


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## mstar

^^^^ Your reference is understood. Well. And that is why I proposed that we close that thread. Right now, it is purposeless. 

Peace.


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## Tristan

I'm all for off-topic speech, but I agree with OT forums' general rules about disallowing contentious topics like politics, religion, sexuality, etc. It can be interesting to talk about those things, but it can also quickly go badly. I think it's better if we just avoid it altogether.


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## Cheyenne

Blancrocher said:


> Well, given enough time on the forum I'm sure anyone will come off as a liar. It's hard to be consistent _all_ the time.


"A foolish consistency," wrote Ralph Waldo Emerson, "is the hobgoblin of little minds."


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## mstar

I'm complaining that Tchaikovsky makes me


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Fermat said:


> I realize that different forums handle problems in different ways, but I'm not a fan of the deletion of posts (even those I strongly disagree with). Closing threads and banning people is one thing, but selectively removing comments is quite another. This has happened a lot in the short amount of time I've been here. If it were a question of posts that presented legal problems (such as the posting of certain images or personal threats), it'd be understandable, but that's not been the case in the threads I've seen. It presents such a fundamental conflict with my own values that I am going to have to take a break and reassess why I come to this forum and whether we're a good match. Peace.


One way to go about this is to have a "dislike" button, if a post is extremely unpopular then it could be hidden (like YouTube comments) rather than mysteriously deleted. Also having such a button would would solve the "too many likes" problem that some people have and give the "likes" much more meaning.

Also, I'm not sure why on this forum we cannot directly reference a select group of other sites. It seems arrogant that we can't give praise (when appropriate) or recommendation to other sites in addition to this one in order to broaden people's knowledge and encourage more discussion. It's not a question of moving people off this site, that's a very close minded way to think of it, it's about sharing and widening knowledge and opinions. Deleting posts and handing out infraction points for referencing other sites puts TC in a position that looks like we look down upon other sites rather than recognising that nothing is wrong with what every single forum on the Internet is for. No other site I've been to has a problem with referencing other sites, and this is the only thing I find embarrassing and unnecessary on TC.


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## ricardo_jvc6

I complain that Samples like VSL, EWQL and others are too expensive. That is just utterly stupid in the terms of these companies.


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## mstar

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> One way to go about this is to have a "dislike" button, if a post is extremely unpopular then it could be hidden (like YouTube comments) rather than mysteriously deleted. Also having such a button would would solve the "too many likes" problem that some people have and give the "likes" much more meaning.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure why on this forum we cannot directly reference a select group of other sites. It seems arrogant that we can't give praise (when appropriate) or recommendation to other sites in addition to this one in order to broaden people's knowledge and encourage more discussion. It's not a question of moving people off this site, that's a very close minded way to think of it, it's about sharing and widening knowledge and opinions. Deleting posts and handing out infraction points for referencing other sites puts TC in a position that looks like we look down upon other sites rather than recognising that nothing is wrong with what every single forum on the Internet is for. No other site I've been to has a problem with referencing other sites, and this is the only thing I find embarrassing and unnecessary on TC.


*OPERA LIVELY.* So there.


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## mstar

Okay, okay.... Deep breath.... I'm so gonna get a  for that above post, oh no, okay here it comes.... No sarcasm.... I'm pretty scared.... *FOR YOU, ALMAVIVA!!!!!!!!*


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## Tristan

In my experience, dislike buttons create a lot of discord on sites, and people get into "beefs" with other users and go through all their posts and dislike them, etc. It's just a breeding ground for nastiness. >.<


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## mstar

I'm complaining that PetrB got banned again! I hope he returns soon....


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## Cheyenne

The indifference that comes with a like-less post is harsh enough, eh?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

mstar said:


> I'm complaining that PetrB got banned again! I hope he returns soon....


I sent him an email asking what for, I wont say exactly what it was this time, but in the past ever became banned temporarily because of a literary phrase someone didn't understand as assumed it offensive. I really don't think this is good enough grounds for even an infraction point. This is an English language forum after all!


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## mstar

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I sent him an email asking what for, I wot say exactly what it was this time, but in the past ever became banned temporarily because of a literary phrase someone didn't understand as assumed it offensive. I really don't think this is good enough grounds for even an infraction point. This is an English language forum after all!


Okay, I hope he's back soon....

Looks like I'm going fishing in my undeleted pm's....


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Tristan said:


> In my experience, dislike buttons create a lot of discord on sites, and people get into "beefs" with other users and go through all their posts and dislike them, etc. It's just a breeding ground for nastiness. >.<


However, anyone could just attack anyone else on this forum in other ways. I highly doubt there are people immature enough to dislike every post of certain members. And anyway, it really shouldn't matter much if a post says "5 likes, 1 dislike" at the bottom of it. It would add more meaning to the "likes" anyway.


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## violadude

One thing I have somewhat of a complaint about is the crack down on off-topic discussion. I know some people think it's annoying, but that's how conversations work in the real world isn't it? You start with a premise and then it goes from there and it might go every which way. If we stick strictly to answering some sort of question posed to us in the OP, it's less like a real conversation and more like a game show or something.


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## Krummhorn

violadude said:


> One thing I have somewhat of a complaint about is the crack down on off-topic discussion. I know some people think it's annoying, but that's how conversations work in the real world isn't it? You start with a premise and then it goes from there and it might go every which way. If we stick strictly to answering some sort of question posed to us in the OP, it's less like a real conversation and more like a game show or something.


Believe me, we would rather not have to keep roping in people to remain on topic ... but if we don't, then the idea behind the OP is completely lost and then the thread, in the later pages, has no relevance to the original subject matter.

And, it becomes very confusing to somebody arriving at this site for the first time ... we need to stay somewhat organized ... slight deviations are going to happen, but when not reined in at some point, the entire thread gets derailed.

Also, please remember that the discussion threads are 'indexed' by many search engines ... which in tune help people (lurkers, for example) find the information that they are seeking.


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## Ingélou

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> However, anyone could just attack anyone else on this forum in other ways. I highly doubt there are people immature enough to dislike every post of certain members. And anyway, it really shouldn't matter much if a post says "5 likes, 1 dislike" at the bottom of it. It would add more meaning to the "likes" anyway.


No, I don't agree. There certainly are people who would use 'dislike' buttons to vent a personal animus against another poster. It isn't a matter of being 'immature' but of being an over-assertive or aggressive person. Sadly, bullying goes on all the time, both in real life and on the internet. And what if you had '5 dislikes, 1 like'? It would be bound to upset people, and we have enough rows and spats on the site without adding more.

If you don't like a post, CoAG, you're free to post your own reply, politely indicating a cause of disagreement. Plus, if you do find 'likes' meaningless, we could all arrange not to post any for you any more, and you could stop 'liking' posts yourself - to be honest, the prospect makes me feel rather sad  but you *could*!


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## ricardo_jvc6

I complain that the 100th Post was done by Ingenue and not another person. (No Offense ) Shucks! I really wanted to do that 100th Post!


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## mstar

Ingenue said:


> No, I don't agree. There certainly are people who would use 'dislike' buttons to vent a personal animus against another poster. It isn't a matter of being 'immature' but of being an over-assertive or aggressive person. Sadly, bullying goes on all the time, both in real life and on the internet. And what if you had '5 dislikes, 1 like'? It would be bound to upset people, and we have enough rows and spats on the site without adding more.
> 
> If you don't like a post, CoAG, you're free to post your own reply, politely indicating a cause of disagreement. Plus, if you do find 'likes' meaningless, we could all arrange not to post any for you any more, and you could stop 'liking' posts yourself - to be honest, the prospect makes me feel rather sad  but you *could*!


Agreed. Though I do see what COAG is getting to, we must also consider the fact that there may be unpleasant people who will click on the "recent posts" to get to a list of all the posts a single user has ever made, then go down the list disliking them all. 
Also, if we must give notifications for whenever someone gets a like, then would we have to send a noti. out to them as well?

I do propose that we *send a notification to forumers when their posts are quoted in replies.*

I also *COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT.* Really to go with the theme of this thread.


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## mstar

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> I complain that the 100th Post was done by Ingenue and not another person. (No Offense ) Shucks! I really wanted to do that 100th Post!


I did the hundredth post on the football thread, though I don't know a thing about college or NFL football.


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## ricardo_jvc6

I'm about to complain how this awesome thread of complaints just froze and no one cares for it anymore. I mean really...


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## mstar

Well, I'm complaining that some of these complaints are not legitimate complaints.... Like complaining that TC is awesome?? We don't want to change that for the _worse!_


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## Taggart

mstar said:


> I do propose that we *send a notification to forumers when their posts are quoted in replies.*


Would only work if you used the



HTML:


[QUOTE="mstar, post: 542847, member: 34199"]

stuff within your post so that the software can suss out exactly who to inform. Trouble is some people use an @mstar form or simply copy (in a different colour) to refer to things or use ^^^^^^^^^^ to point to the previous post, so it ain't simple. The thing to do is *subscribe* to threads you want to follow.

Don't know why I'm posting here, cos I aint got no complaints not with TC at least.


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## mstar

Taggart said:


> Would only work if you used the
> 
> 
> 
> HTML:
> 
> 
> [QUOTE="mstar, post: 542847, member: 34199"]
> 
> stuff within your post so that the software can suss out exactly who to inform. Trouble is some people use an @mstar form or simply copy (in a different colour) to refer to things or use ^^^^^^^^^^ to point to the previous post, so it ain't simple. The thing to do is *subscribe* to threads you want to follow.
> 
> Don't know why I'm posting here, cos I aint got no complaints not with TC at least.


I think it would at least be helpful, but then again we have "likes" to notify members. Though that does defeat the purpose of likes....


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## Aramis

I've just noticed that Saul was perm-banned. What did I miss?


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## PetrB

Aramis said:


> I've just noticed that Saul was perm-banned. What did I miss?


This is my non-professional psychological guess.

From the moment of his appearance (re-appearance, I believe, since he had been "permanently banned" before...even if that "permanent" literally makes no sense  I saw this dynamic / aspect at work, and thought, "Oh, boy, it is only a matter of not too long a time before he repeats the former story, whatever that was, and ends up with the same result as before."

Lol. It was the successfully realized self-fulfilled prophecy -- end result in the person's mind is _martyrdom_, I think I'd call it -- all set up and realized by the martyr. It is a psych 101a classic type of behavioral disorder.

Arm yourself with a double set of pistols, holster, then proceed to shoot yourself in both feet and then blame others for that result. Some people are practiced masters at it.


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## EricABQ

Aramis said:


> I've just noticed that Saul was perm-banned. What did I miss?


He apparently had a meltdown in a thread about transgender people. Ended up directly insulting another member. I didn't see the insult but it must have been way over the line.


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## PetrB

To the OP -- my one complaint regarding overall forum quality and its appearance to guest visitors would be:

Far too many polls.

I would like to propose that there be a poll posting limit per member, 12 per year (do the math of the membership nos. and realize that is already quite enough, even if some never post polls.

What any one might wish to discuss can be easily put in some other form of OP, so I don't see a 12 poll per capita limit in any way censorious or inhibiting.


----------



## Aramis

PetrB said:


> I saw this dynamic / aspect at work, and thought, "Oh, boy, it is only a matter of not too long a time before he repeats the former story, whatever that was, and ends up with the same result as before."


Certainly. But I was asking more about where and when did it happen, what exactly got him banned, not what was the general genesis and cause of this happening. I'd be surprised if EricABQ's guess would be true.


----------



## Ingélou

I remember it happening and I think - although I was too late to read the offending post - that EricABQ *was* right, actually.


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## EricABQ

Aramis said:


> Certainly. But I was asking more about where and when did it happen, what exactly got him banned, not what was the general genesis and cause of this happening. I'd be surprised if EricABQ's guess would be true.


It wasn't a guess, that's what happened.


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## Aramis

Oh well, alright. I thought he was unbanned still for rather long time after that thread was closed, though, and having seen the post in question I doubt if it was a ban material.


----------



## Ukko

Aramis said:


> Certainly. But I was asking more about where and when did it happen, what exactly got him banned, not what was the general genesis and cause of this happening. I'd be surprised if EricABQ's guess would be true.


I'm pretty sure that was the straw, the build-up to it as PetrB described


----------



## PetrB

Aramis said:


> Certainly. But I was asking more about where and when did it happen, what exactly got him banned, not what was the general genesis and cause of this happening. I'd be surprised if EricABQ's guess would be true.


Well, that banned party in all matters social, political, was -- imho -- just a hair to the right of Louis the XIVth, so you should _not_ be at all surprised. The party in question certainly provided enough fodder along the way that being permanently banned was inevitable -- not a matter of "if" but merely "when."


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## Ukko

Aramis said:


> Oh well, alright. I thought he was unbanned still for rather long time after that thread was closed, though, and having seen the post in question I doubt if it was a ban material.


Sometimes the Krew chews the issue for awhile, especially if a permanent ban is in play.


----------



## tdc

Aramis said:


> Oh well, alright. I thought he was unbanned still for rather long time after that thread was closed, though, and having seen the post in question I doubt if it was a ban material.


No, he wasn't unbanned after that incident, but a few of his threads were active immediately after the incident and being posted in by other members, so that is probably why it seemed like he was still active. I also didn't see the post that got him banned I just know it was in BD's transgender thread and among other things allegedly involved him calling someone (or maybe just their lifestyle choice) "disgusting".


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## Aramis

tdc said:


> allegedly involved him calling someone (or maybe just their lifestyle choice) "disgusting".


Neither. He called the idea of that thread and talking in public about one's sexuality disgusting.


----------



## tdc

Aramis said:


> Neither. He called the idea of that thread and talking in public about one's sexuality disgusting.


Ok, well as I said I didn't see the comment, just what others have said about it.


----------



## EricABQ

Aramis said:


> Neither. He called the idea of that thread and talking in public about one's sexuality disgusting.


I assumed the post that got him booted was deleted.

There were a number of post in that thread deleted as I recall, but I could be wrong.


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## Ukko

Aramis said:


> Neither. He called the idea of that thread and talking in public about one's sexuality disgusting.


I thought the thread was educational (hadn't heard of GLBT before) and a bit dismaying (so many 'T's?), otherwise just another whippersnapper "I'm Farther Out Than You Are" thread.


----------



## moody

EricABQ said:


> He apparently had a meltdown in a thread about transgender people. Ended up directly insulting another member. I didn't see the insult but it must have been way over the line.


He is an orthodox Jew I believe so objected to the whole idea. But he was most unwise in his choice of language and should have foreseen the outcome--perhaps he did.
It was not so much the insult but what was said that hurt Burning Desire and it hurt her considerably.


----------



## SixFootScowl

I would like to officially register the complaint that there are not enough Boris Godunov nuts on this site. Who am I to talk to (rant and rave) about Boris versions and orchestrations? 

Is this site not Godunov for Boris discussions?


----------



## Bettina

Florestan said:


> I would like to officially register the complaint that there are not enough Boris Godunov nuts on this site. Who am I to talk to (rant and rave) about Boris versions and orchestrations?
> 
> Is this site not Godunov for Boris discussions?


Don't worry--we love Mussorgsky! I can assure you that he doesn't Boris.


----------



## hpowders

Bettina said:


> Don't worry--we love Mussorgsky! I can assure you that he doesn't Boris.


Sprake 4 thyself, woman!


----------



## hpowders

Why should I belong to any forum that would have ME as a member?


----------



## hpowders

I have a complaint.

I've been running a quite successful pun shop for years. Now all of a sudden this dude opens another one two blocks away and he has the nerve to call it Allegro con Brio's.


----------



## Bettina

hpowders said:


> I have a complaint.
> 
> I've been running a quite successful pun shop for years. Now all of a sudden this dude opens another one two blocks away and he has the nerve to call it Allegro con Brio's.


How rotten of him! He stole the idea of a pun shop from you. And he stole the name of his shop from Beethoven's tempo marking in the Fifth Symphony.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> How rotten of him! He stole the idea of a pun shop from you. And he stole the name of his shop from Beethoven's tempo marking in the Fifth Symphony.


Exactly. It coulda been worse. He mighta called it Quasi & Una's Fantasy Shoppe.


----------



## Bettina

hpowders said:


> Exactly. It coulda been worse. He mighta called it Quasi & Una's Fantasia Shop


And then somebody else would come along and nickname it the Moonlight Shop-nata.


----------



## hpowders

Bettina said:


> And then somebody else would come along and nickname it the Moonlight Shop-nata.


At least we know Beethoven, if given the choice, would have chosen my shop for new or recycled puns and may have even thrown a rock through Moonlight's big, new expensive store window. Beethoven could be punicious.


----------

