# What do you think of Tennstedt's Mahler?



## DavidA

After Rattle............Really enjoying the cycle I bought of Tennstedt's Mahler - absurdly cheap at £20 for 16 discs including three live performances and Das Lied on der Erde. Be interested to hear what you guys think of it.


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## Larkenfield

Don't miss out on his series of live performances, a true Mahlerphile that I've found deeply rewarding and satisfying. That's what's amazing about Mahler himself: he can be interpreted in so many ways but his great works can still sound _real_.


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## mbhaub

I really like Tennstedt's Mahler. He makes it sound natural and unforced. No micromanaging things, no fussiness about it. Just powerful, potent playing. One of the best Mahler bargains out there.


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## starthrower

I've listened to 1,2, 4 from the box and the first two sound very good. The 4th was just okay. I didn't enjoy the Das Lied recording. The sound is lousy and I couldn't get into it. I've got a lot more to listen to, but I'm still trying to get through Bernstein's DG set, and I went and bought the Gielen set which I couldn't pass up for 20 euros.


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## CnC Bartok

Oddly enough, I haven't given Tennstedt much of a listen recently, and perhaps in the wake of DavidA's multiple threads recently, I really should.

My feelings about them are mixed. For me they gave become middle-of-the-road readings, superbly well played, thoughtful, unforced, indeed as mbhaub indicates. His eighth is in many ways the antithesis of the famous Solti recording, a communion, rather than a grand theatrical event, and all the better for it. I am happy with either approach, just not blandness. I found Tennstedt a bit short on tenderness in places elsewhere, though - the Andante of No.6, the two lightweight (!) Symphonies. I am afraid I find his DLvdE pretty poor, sadly. Uninvolving and uninspiring singing, alas.

All round immensely reliable and inoffensive. That is not a great advertising slogan, I know! I think I do need to reassess, as I did with my first ever complete set, Kubelik's. They fell out of favour, superceded by virtually every other recording I ever bought, and now I have worked out some of the reasons Kubelík Is so widely admired as a conductor, which is why his cycle is debatably the best I have. Time for some fresh ears for Klaus as well.


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## Judith

Have both sets and prefer Tennstedts. Always find there is something missing with Rattle. Tennstedt is more powerful


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## Kiki

I like Tennstedt's two latter, live 6 & 7 on EMI. There is something in the air... But I'm unable to warm to his live 5s on EMI & TokyoFM, the latter I found particularly sluggish I'm afraid.


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## grandebulla

I have it and i think Tennstedt is one of the greatest Mahler conductors of all time.


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## Merl

Tennstedt is an excellent Mahler conductor and I really enjoy his cycle but, for me, none of his accounts are my favourites. He's consistently very good, though.


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## Totenfeier

Tennstedt's style in Mahler derives from what I view as his artless naivety (in a positive sense), combined with a profound love of Mahler. That's it. He's humbled to have the chance to perform a composer he knows and loves so well. And therefore, whatever flaws there may be can and must be forgiven in a conductor who, while his command of the score is masterful, is even more in a deep, personal relationship with Mahler himself. His box with the live 5-7 and DLVDE is indispensible for any Mahlerite.


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## Granate

I don't think there is a Genuine Mahler conductor, but a handful of people and orchestras have revealed different sides of his music with more or less luck. Sets were often divided between those more prepared for symphonies 1-4 and those darker enough to lift up symphonies 5-9. Bernstein NYPO could make gold with the early ones, Tennstedt Studio with the latter, and Bernstein DG had such a bold approach that there was no distinction.

However, the Tennstedt live recordings in London gave for me the definitive shape for the Mahler I like best: unpredictable, when you never know when the counterbasses or timpani are going to beat. The Royal Albert Hall performance of No.6, despite the iffy sound quality on the first movement, scores greatly on this. Also, while studio recordings of LPO from 1-4 were for me more flat, the live recordings gave the best edge. They are a must to complete the Mahler vision of Klaus Tennstedt, to prove that he was one of the few able to give a concept that worked for the whole cycle and not just one of the halves. 

It has been such a clever purchase that I don't think I will invest in another full set rather than spare recordings of symphonies. Everytime I look at the Bernstein DG I think I'm very fine with the Tennstedt ones. Liveliness was the key. That made Mahler expand and flow through the city, mountains, seashore, etc...

I made a challenge of all the Tennstedt Mahler recordings by the end of Summer 2018 which I never published, because I wanted to wait for my Summer 2019 final Mahler challenge. It was strange because I didn't like the dark and detailed approach of the late live recordings from 1987 until his death when I was doing it. I was always favouring the early 80s live recordings or studio efforts like the No.5, No.7 or No.9, before he knew about his fatal illness.


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## DavidA

Just listening to his 6th live. All the nerve endings exposed!


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## realdealblues

Tennstedt was an excellent Mahler conductor, the biggest problem with his Studio cycle was always the sound and occasionally the orchestral response/playing. The 4th symphony especially had some pretty scrappy playing in the 1st movement, but that's about the worst of it. Many of the Symphonies were later recorded live, some multiple times, and many of them are better than their studio counterparts for sound a orchestral response. For the song and dance price you can get his Mahler recordings at they are certainly worth having and hearing.


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## Artran

Yesterday I've accidentally listened to Mahler 5 and I was disapointed. It more and more felt too slow, shallow, lite and not bold. Extremes were ironed out. I don't understant why this recording has so big reputation.


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## Granate

Artran said:


> Yesterday I've accidentally listened to Mahler 5 and I was disapointed. It more and more felt too slow, shallow, lite and not bold. Extremes were ironed out. I don't understant why this recording has so big reputation.


Do you mean...?










Studio?










Or Live 1988?

...

Because the one with big reputation is the Live 1988 one, which I feel bored with. One of my favourite recordings of the No.5, however, is the Studio recording above.

I don't know which one you mean, because you're talking about both of them since you say the recording you listened to had big reputation but placing the ART edition of the studio recording.


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## Artran

It's the studio one, from '78. I've thought that both of them are valued pretty highly. I like a bit brisker performances of the 5th I suppose (Barshai, Rattle, Kubelík).


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## NLAdriaan

I just never got it with Tennstedt.


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## Granate

Artran said:


> It's the studio one, from '78. I've thought that both of them are valued pretty highly. I like a bit brisker performances of the 5th I suppose (Barshai, Rattle, Kubelík).


Ok, then we don't agree at all, but that's perfect. The one I never get is the live one, alongside a couple of other war-horses.

About the value of the studio set, regardless of the sound, it shocked me that every one who likes his style has different performances as favourites.


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## DavidA

realdealblues said:


> Tennstedt was an excellent Mahler conductor, the biggest problem with his *Studio cycle was always the sound and occasionally the orchestral response/playing.* The 4th symphony especially had some pretty scrappy playing in the 1st movement, but that's about the worst of it. Many of the Symphonies were later recorded live, some multiple times, and many of them are better than their studio counterparts for sound a orchestral response. For the song and dance price you can get his Mahler recordings at they are certainly worth having and hearing.


To me the sound and playing are quite acceptable in the studio versions. No 9 does not work so well. But if you like your Mahler big and gloomy and gut wrenching the Tennstedt is your man.


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## Brahmsian Colors

.......Deleted.......


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## Triplets

CnC Bartok said:


> Oddly enough, I haven't given Tennstedt much of a listen recently, and perhaps in the wake of DavidA's multiple threads recently, I really should.
> 
> My feelings about them are mixed. For me they gave become middle-of-the-road readings, superbly well played, thoughtful, unforced, indeed as mbhaub indicates. His eighth is in many ways the antithesis of the famous Solti recording, a communion, rather than a grand theatrical event, and all the better for it. I am happy with either approach, just not blandness. I found Tennstedt a bit short on tenderness in places elsewhere, though - the Andante of No.6, the two lightweight (!) Symphonies. I am afraid I find his DLvdE pretty poor, sadly. Uninvolving and uninspiring singing, alas.
> 
> All round immensely reliable and inoffensive. That is not a great advertising slogan, I know! I think I do need to reassess, as I did with my first ever complete set, Kubelik's. They fell out of favour, superceded by virtually every other recording I ever bought, and now I have worked out some of the reasons Kubelík Is so widely admired as a conductor, which is why his cycle is debatably the best I have. Time for some fresh ears for Klaus as well.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts about Tennstedt.


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## Merl

I've always thought that, as solid and good as his studio recordings are, his live recordings capture a very different conductor. I'm thinking particularly of his Brahms 3, Beethoven 3 and 9, Bruckner 4, Mahler 1 and Dvorak 8 that are excellent accounts. His Live Eroica with the NDR is a cracking performance and probably in my top ten Eroicas.


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## flamencosketches

I'm looking to branch out from my select circle of "preferred" Mahlerian conductors: Bernstein, Klemperer, Walter, and to a lesser extent, Barbirolli, Abbado, Kubelík into some of the renowned conductors of a more recent generation. Two that have captured my interest are Rattle and Tennstedt. 

As for Tennstedt, I like what I've heard of his live Resurrection with the LPO (I believe from 1989, found in a box set for the London Philharmonic house label), plus a live 5th (unsure which one?)—moreover his Das Lied and one of his recordings of the 6th (again, not sure which) came highly recommended to me recently. Tennstedt appears to be one of *the* iconic Mahler conductors and it seems he has something to say about this music. 

The big box on EMI looks like a great deal especially with all those live recordings. But also the London Philharmonic live box (I believe it was just released last year), while not quite as good of a deal, also looks to be excellent. But if I were to just get one or two individual CDs, what are some performances which stand out?


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## Knorf

Merl said:


> Tennstedt is an excellent Mahler conductor and I really enjoy his cycle but, for me, none of his accounts are my favourites. He's consistently very good, though.


This is pretty much where I stand as well. The Kubelik set (for one peer comparison) has higher peaks but isn't as consistent.

For me, the most consistent 'high peak" set is Iván Fischer's, but alas he has said it will never be completed. He said he "lacks the key" for unlocking No. 8. But his _Das Lied von der Erde_ is due out later this year, and I for one am very much looking forward to it.


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> This is pretty much where I stand as well. The Kubelik set (for one peer comparison) has higher peaks but isn't as consistent.
> 
> For me, the most consistent 'high peak" set is Iván Fischer's, but alas he has said it will never be completed. He said he "lacks the key" for unlocking No. 8. But his _Das Lied von der Erde_ is due out later this year, and I for one am very much looking forward to it.


Any entries in Fischer's incomplete cycle that you would say are especially worthwhile? His 6th has been recommended to me, among others.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> Any entries in Fischer's incomplete cycle that you would say are especially worthwhile? His 6th has been recommended to me, among others.


They're really very consistently excellent! It's hard to pick. But I think 5-7 are very special. 3 & 4 are the "weakest," not that they're weak, but I have other clear favorites (Boulez/Vienna and Bernstein/NYPO on DG for No. 3, Abbado/Vienna and Szell/Cleveland for No. 4.) Fischer's Ninth is way up there as well. 1 & 2 are in a very crowded field. Yep, I'll stick with 5-7 as the best in Fischer's never-to-be-completed set.*

*Hopefully, Iván finds the key he needs for No. 8.


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## Knorf

It's been years since I heard it, but I remember thinking Tennstedt's Mahler 9 was something special.


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## HenryPenfold

Tennstedt's Mahler is a bit of a blindspot for me. I enjoy his old Bruckner 9 with the LPO (the best current UK orchestra, perhaps?) and I adore the Live Walkure Act 1 that was released a little while back. A stonking 4 Last Songs with Lucia Popp and some interesting Strauss and other core repertoire. 

I keep hovering over the 'buy button' for the EMI/Warner Classics LPO cycle with the additional live recordings, but keep pulling out at the last moment when I ask myself "do I need another Mahler cycle?".


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## flamencosketches

HenryPenfold said:


> Tennstedt's Mahler is a bit of a blindspot for me. I enjoy his old Bruckner 9 with the LPO (the best current UK orchestra, perhaps?) and I adore the Live Walkure Act 1 that was released a little while back. A stonking 4 Last Songs with Lucia Popp and some interesting Strauss and other core repertoire.
> 
> I keep hovering over the 'buy button' for the EMI/Warner Classics LPO cycle with the additional live recordings, but keep pulling out at the last moment when I ask myself *"do I need another Mahler cycle?".*


You know, I always told myself "no", but now, I'm beginning to think "maybe I do"...  I only have one full cycle, Bernstein/NY. Others are plenty tempting, but I usually talk myself out of it by the thought that no conductor is consistent enough to pull off a full Mahler cycle, even Bernstein. But it appears that Tennstedt may be one of the chosen few... no? Kubelík is another contender... maybe Abbado? Chailly? I don't know... Maybe I don't need another Mahler cycle after all. :lol:


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## Knorf

I personally do not own a complete Mahler cycle. Fischer is closest I have come, but he won't be doing the 8th as mentioned. 

I have many to most of the Bernstein (both Columbia/Sony and DG), Abbado (a mix of old and new, sometimes both, e.g. in the 7th), Boulez, and Walter (which was never complete, of course.) There are sundry others for various individual symphonies, like Kubelík and Klemperer for Mahler 2.


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## Chi_townPhilly

Merl said:


> Tennstedt is an excellent Mahler conductor and I really enjoy his cycle but, for me, none of his accounts are my favourites. He's consistently very good, though.


Interesting- that's the way I feel about Tintner's Bruckner- none of them are my top-most, but they're pretty much all worth having. The Tintner Bruckner might not have pride-of-place as a first set... but it's a great idea for a second set.

But I digress...

I saw the thread-title and thought "is this a trick question?!?" From my perspective, no-one does 9 better than Tennstedt.


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## Merl

Most Mahlerians will always say avoid Mahler cycles. I never understood that when I came here but I get it now. There are just so many ways to play Mahler. His symphonies are so different there's a huge range of approaches for each. I have a lot of Mahler cycles (I won't bore you by naming them here) but I often just pick out individual discs rather than reach for them . I certainly have more single discs / downloads of Mahler symphonies than by any other conductor (probably even Beethoven). Tennstedt's cycle is one approach, Bertini's another, Bernstein (both) is different again but I'm more than often just tempted by individual discs in Mahler more than any other composer. The last Mahler 1st I played was Inbal (Tokyo), 2nd was Walter, 3rd was Haitink, 4th was Honeck, etc. Before I listened to the last Inbal cycle purposefully, I can't actually remember the last time I delved into my many Mahler cycles.


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## Enthusiast

The live recordings (many on BBC Legends) are the best of Tennstedt's Mahler by far. It is they that show us what a great Mahler (and other composers) conductor he was.


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## wkasimer

Merl said:


> Most Mahlerians will always say avoid Mahler cycles.


There's nothing wrong with Mahler cycles. The problem is that you need to have a lot of them!


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## HenryPenfold

flamencosketches said:


> You know, I always told myself "no", but now, I'm beginning to think "maybe I do"...  I only have one full cycle, Bernstein/NY. Others are plenty tempting, but I usually talk myself out of it by the thought that no conductor is consistent enough to pull off a full Mahler cycle, even Bernstein. But it appears that Tennstedt may be one of the chosen few... no? Kubelík is another contender... maybe Abbado? Chailly? I don't know... Maybe I don't need another Mahler cycle after all. :lol:


All true.

Inarguable.

But just go ahead and buy the Tennstedt, set - you know it makes sense ...


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## Becca

wkasimer said:


> There's nothing wrong with Mahler cycles. The problem is that you need to have a lot of them!


The problem with Mahler cycles is that of those who have done them, nobody gets them all right - not Bernstein, not Rattle, not Tennstedt, etc., etc.


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## Knorf

I don't have a problem with recommending a "complete" set (with or without no. 10) to a newcomer to Mahler's music. It's a far less expensive way to get into that world than the way most of us did, picking recordings up one by one! 

I have no problem suggesting sets by Bernstein, Abbado, Kubelík, Boulez, Tennstedt I suppose. All can be had for cheap!


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## Becca

Cheap,yes, but the risk is getting turned off to a particular symphony because that conductor didn't really 'get' that piece but was pushed into it by the need for completeness. And yes, that has happened to me and it took some years before I decided to try again but with a different conductor and discovered that the problem wasn't the symphony, it was the interpretation (BTW, the 'offending' conductor was HvK!)


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## Knorf

Ah, but Karajan didn't record a complete cycle! 

I see your point, though. I think Solti held me back in understanding and appreciating No. 8!

But I don't see that happening in the sets I mentioned above, except maybe Bernstein. If I recommend a recording to a friend, I always hope to have a sense of what my friend is looking for in Mahler. If it's a blank slate, Kubelík or Abbado are pretty safe choices. (I don't mean that in a bad way!)


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## Merl

wkasimer said:


> There's nothing wrong with Mahler cycles. The problem is that you need to have a lot of them!


No there is nothing wrong with Mahler cycles it's just so many people tell you to just buy individial recordings. I think it was the first thing Mahlerian said to me on here. I ignored him and bought a few cycles followed by lots of single recordings.


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## Knorf

It is true that it is "common wisdom" that no one cycle gets everything right, and you're best off buying individually, supposedly.

Maybe Bernstein, Boulez, Kubelík, and Abbado don't get everything quite right, but they sure come close*! I assume Gielen also. I've not heard that whole set, but every individual performance I have heard in the set is top shelf.

*ETA: Given the aphorism which I often repeat, that in great music no one performer or performance can ever have all of the answers. This is especially true in sets, and Mahler asks many questions.


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## Becca

Knorf said:


> Ah, but Karajan didn't record a complete cycle!


Quite true, that wasn't Mahler but the point is still valid.


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## Granate

A London Philharmonic Collection is the thing I need to enjoy Mahler at its fullest, even if I'm missing Solti or Bernstein. Tennstedt almost got all right for me, except the 4th and Das Lied. Since I got the CDs, I've always thought YNS got the definitive grip of Das Lied second to Klemperer. I love the singers Pence and Conolly. Jurowski is really different to Tennstedt, but this edition delivers astonishing SQ that allows me to enjoy the third movement at its fullest.

The ICA Live No.3 with Waltraud Meier is now very expensive, I got it for 18€. I may say that you may... skip it? Depends on the day, but maybe Tennstedt never got the great results in the No.3 like he achieved in all the other symphonies. I now like the Studio No.3 more but I would definetely turn to Haitink. ICA is yet to release a Live Tennstedt recording of No.7 from early 80s, found on BBC Legends.

Flamenco. Don't go for Tennstedt if you are not going to get them all. Get Bernstein or Kubelik (both DG and Audite while they last). You all know in this forum that I don't hold very high esteem for the 90s Live recordings by Tennstedt.


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## Knorf

Dammit, Granate! Like I need more Mahler recordings! What will my wife say?
 :lol:


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## HenryPenfold

Chi_townPhilly said:


> Interesting- that's the way I feel about Tintner's Bruckner- none of them are my top-most, but they're pretty much all worth having. The Tintner Bruckner might not have pride-of-place as a first set... but it's a great idea for a second set.
> 
> But I digress...
> 
> I saw the thread-title and thought "is this a trick question?!?" From my perspective, no-one does 9 better than Tennstedt.


But Tintner's 3 is up there .........


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## flamencosketches

Granate said:


> Flamenco. Don't go for Tennstedt if you are not going to get them all. Get Bernstein or Kubelik (both DG and Audite while they last). You all know in this forum that I don't hold very high esteem for the 90s Live recordings by Tennstedt.


I've got Bernstein/NYPO/Sony already and love it. Eventually, maybe 30 years from now, I'll get the DG cycle he did. Until then I think I owe it to myself to check out another conductor's cycle, if and when I ever decide to get another cycle. That being said, I have been looking at the LPO live Tennstedt box you posted. What I sampled from it sounded great. After some more thought I don't think another Mahler cycle is in my cards right now. But when the time comes it will probably be Kubelik.

Maybe you'll be happy to hear that I just ordered a recording by Haitink of Mahler's 3rd, partly on your good word in the Mahler 3 thread. It is the Berlin recording on Philips.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> But when the time comes it will probably be Kubelik.


That's a killer choice, to be honest. If you want the DG set, you might consider getting it soon, in the semi-recent new edition DG released with the remastered CDs but more importantly also the entire set on one Blu Ray Audio disc. These blu ray editions don't stay in print for long, sadly. I have a few of these Blu Ray Audio editions (and they slightly annoy me, because I don't need the CDs), and they have _never_ sounded better. The remastering job for the Blu Ray was absolutely top notch!
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/mahler-10-sinfonien/hnum/8753067


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## flamencosketches

^I don't have a Blu Ray player, unfortunately. Worth the investment, you think? Comparatively little music makes it onto Blu Ray audio in the first place. How about you buy that one, keep the Blu Ray, and send me the CDs?  :lol:


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## Granate

Knorf said:


> Dammit, Granate! Like I need more Mahler recordings! What will my wife say?
> :lol:


No! Don't buy Mahler. It only gives you headaches if you cannot go out. It's meant to be listened on movement and the last thing we call all do now is to move!

Buy Bruckner and Beethoven, or Johann Strauss to dance along!

This London Collection has been the reason why I have always restrained from buying my second favourite set: the Bernstein DG.

But now I purchased cheap CDs of Mitropoulos and Rosbaud recordings. I think I only really like from the Mitropoulos 3 and 8 and Rosbaud's 4 and 5. Maybe I've wasted 9€ in a set I won't ever open, but I want more Mitropoulos. And this talk is making me want the Kubelík Audite No.3!!!!


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## Granate

flamencosketches said:


> Maybe you'll be happy to hear that I just ordered a recording by Haitink of Mahler's 3rd, partly on your good word in the Mahler 3 thread. It is the Berlin recording on Philips.


Aaaarg! Almost all his Mahler 3s are great. You did really well. But the one and only the definitive recording, his greatest recorded legacy in my opinion (I don't know his Shosty) should be the BAVARIAN Mahler 3. I've bought a CD copy already and I hope it arrives along one of my most astonishing discoveries for a Beethoven 9th.


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## Knorf

I think Blu Ray Audio is absolutely worth It! Yes, the number of titles is limited, and sell out quickly. But I love having stuff like the complete Bruckner Symphonies with Karajan on a single disc. It's the remaster more than the high resolution format, in all probability, but these recordings on Blu Ray have never, ever sounded better. They're amazing!

The good news: Deutsche Grammophon is continuing to release stuff in box sets from their back catalogue with a BR disc included. The new Nelsons Beethoven cycle included a BR disc. And a few other labels are still releasing in this format. The convenience of huge storage plus top-tier audio quality is terrific, I think. Of course you can also purchase and download in high resolution, but that is often more expensive, paradoxically. 

The better news: good Blu Ray players are very inexpensive nowadays. And even fairly cheap ones in regular CD format outperform audiophile players from 20 years ago. Don't go too cheap, though! You can also just use a relatively cheap one as a transport into your own DAC, not a bad way to go, honestly.


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## wkasimer

Knorf said:


> These blu ray editions don't stay in print for long, sadly.


And I've noticed that once they go OOP, they become obscenely expensive on the used market, even if you can find them.


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## Knorf

wkasimer said:


> And I've noticed that once they go OOP, they become obscenely expensive on the used market, even if you can find them.


This is all too true. I'd love to own the Kertesz/Dvořák box with the Blu Ray Audio disc, but I missed it when it was available, and now people are asking hundreds of dollars for it. Um, no.


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## Manxfeeder

Knorf said:


> This is all too true. I'd love to own the Kertesz/Dvořák box with the Blu Ray Audio disc, but I missed it when it was available, and now people are asking hundreds of dollars for it. Um, no.


I'm wondering, do people actually pay those obscenely inflated prices?


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## Knorf

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm wondering, do people actually pay those obscenely inflated prices?


It doesn't seem like it it to me. I've been keeping my eyes on the Kertesz/Dvořák box with the Blu Ray disc, on ebay, and I've seen the same listings from the same sellers at the same prices for months. I'm personally not willing to pay over 10% over retail new, nor above original retail if used. Frankly, even that is a bit absurd.


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## wkasimer

Manxfeeder said:


> I'm wondering, do people actually pay those obscenely inflated prices?


I certainly don't!


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## flamencosketches

Granate said:


> Aaaarg! Almost all his Mahler 3s are great. You did really well. But the one and only the definitive recording, his greatest recorded legacy in my opinion (I don't know his Shosty) should be the BAVARIAN Mahler 3. I've bought a CD copy already and I hope it arrives along one of my most astonishing discoveries for a Beethoven 9th.


From 2017? I was looking at that too. Hmm, it may not be too late to switch my order. (Amazon). I'll have to listen to both a bit more. But the Berlin sounded great to my ears.


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## vincula

Granate said:


> A London Philharmonic Collection is the thing I need to enjoy Mahler at its fullest, even if I'm missing Solti or Bernstein. Tennstedt almost got all right for me, except the 4th and Das Lied.


I think he got the no.4 right her:









But then I've got Bertini, Horenstein and Berstein too... and 

Regards,

Vincula


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## Granate

Thank you. I also listened to it and the performance is just nice, maybe not the style I demand for the symphony. 

Jurowski London Philharmonic may have just a decent conducting (never been impressed for his No.1 and No.2) but the playing and Sound Quality turn the symphony into a beautifully raw experience.


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Short answer: really good. But Tennstedt's cycle is not the underdog, Inbal's cycle is the underdog (I suspect it's the dry sound).


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## Manxfeeder

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> Inbal's cycle is the underdog (I suspect it's the dry sound).


Inbal doesn't get mentioned much. What is your impression of it?


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## UniversalTuringMachine

The sound engineering of denon is superb as you would expect (super clean and focused, but can be dry). Otherwise, Inbal's Denon cycle with the Frankfurt radio is nothing to write home about but it's worth listening nonetheless (the play is still fantastic and brisk), for he is a devout Mahler specialist and also highly regarded in Japan and Taiwan (they have big classical scene). There is a new Inbal cycle with the Tokyo Metropolitan symphony orchestra under Exton that I suspect is better than the FRSO one, but I haven't got my hands on them.


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## vincula

Granate said:


> Thank you. I also listened to it and the performance is just nice, maybe not the style I demand for the symphony.


You've got very high standards, sir, even though I'm picky too  I must admit that I haven't found one record of the no.4 that fully satisfies me yet. At some point I came to think that perhaps the work itself has some added sentimentality I'm wary of. Most likely it's my own limitation and not Mahler's, of course. There's a few renderings I do like and enjoy, so I have decided to quit buying more albums. There's too much music out there and obsession's a dangerous friend to play with.

Gonna have a listen to that Jurowski/LSO you refer to. Thanks!

Regards,

Vincula


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## cyberstudio

Tennstedt had an orchestra which loved him and they loved Mahler. It was as if they were just enjoying themselves, and it just so happened that their audience loved their performance, too. If we have to measure if they measure up, well, that might not even have been something that crossed their minds. Would sincerity alone catapult them to the top? Maybe not. The set was incredibly inexpensive and incredibly enjoyable, though.


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## UniversalTuringMachine

Tennstedt cares, Mahler matters, it shows.


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## Merl

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> The sound engineering of denon is superb as you would expect (super clean and focused, but can be dry). Otherwise, Inbal's Denon cycle with the Frankfurt radio is nothing to write home about but it's worth listening nonetheless (the play is still fantastic and brisk), for he is a devout Mahler specialist and also highly regarded in Japan and Taiwan (they have big classical scene). There is a new Inbal cycle with the Tokyo Metropolitan symphony orchestra under Exton that I suspect is better than the FRSO one, but I haven't got my hands on them.


Inbal's original Mahler cycle was decent if unspectacular but the newer Tokyo Exton set is excellent (I have it) . I reviewed most of them in the Current Listening thread some time ago. If I can find them I'll cut and paste them into here. Suffice it to say the 1st, 4th and 7th are absolutely superb and there is no weak link in the set. I'd go as far as to say it's the most consistent a Mahler cycle I've heard (even more than Bertini).. Dont believe me? Check them out on Spotify / Deezer


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## UniversalTuringMachine

^ I have already listened through Inbal's 3rd cycle, they are great, spontaneous, idiomatic, full-bodied Mahler! Inbal understands these works inside out and it shows.


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## Superflumina

The Tennstedt Mahler recordings I remember were all way too slow in tempo for my taste.


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## Granate

He was too good. He could have used a therapist. And if he was, they weren't good enough to treat him.


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## Knorf

Superflumina said:


> The Tennstedt Mahler recordings I remember were all way too slow in tempo for my taste.


I wouldn't say so, as a generality.


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## NLAdriaan

Tennstedt is not my cup of tea in Mahler, too much added drama for my taste.


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## Enthusiast

I like his Mahler anyway and his live recordings tended to be the better ones.


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## Granate

*The Tennstedt DKW recording*










I was wondering about why wasn't this recording issued with the rest of Tennstedt Mahler recordings with the London Philharmonic. I wonder if the reason is the label considers the work and performance "unattractive", or the release was vetoed in some way by the Popp family like the Live Beethoven 9th.

It's available in spotify and was reissued like twice on CD but I've never been able to get it new. I don't really like the work but the singers do even stand out compared to the Schwarzkopf/DFD/Szell recording.


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## Malx

Granate said:


> I was wondering about why wasn't this recording issued with the rest of Tennstedt Mahler recordings with the London Philharmonic. I wonder if the reason is the label considers the work and performance "unattractive", or the release was vetoed in some way by the Popp family like the Live Beethoven 9th.
> 
> It's available in spotify and was reissued like twice on CD but I've never been able to get it new. I don't really like the work but the singers do even stand out compared to the Schwarzkopf/DFD/Szell recording.


It could be because the box, if its the one I think you are referring to, is entitled 'Complete Symphonies' it does include DLVE but most regard that as a Symphony - Das Knabern Wunderhorn is a song cycle.
Just a thought.


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## OCEANE

Merl said:


> Inbal's original Mahler cycle was decent if unspectacular but the newer Tokyo Exton set is excellent (I have it) . I reviewed most of them in the Current Listening thread some time ago. If I can find them I'll cut and paste them into here. Suffice it to say the 1st, 4th and 7th are absolutely superb and there is no weak link in the set. I'd go as far as to say it's the most consistent a Mahler cycle I've heard (even more than Bertini).. Dont believe me? Check them out on Spotify / Deezer


Agreed with your comment on Inbal's two Mahler cycles and both sound quality are top notch. This Symphony No. 3 plays frequently in my system...


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## golfer72

OCEANE said:


> Agreed with your comment on Inbal's two Mahler cycles and both sound quality are top notch. This Symphony No. 3 plays frequently in my system...
> 
> View attachment 165161


Yes i also like the Inbal cycle. Sound is awesome. 1,2,7,8 I have on other cycles. The Inbal 9 especially the climax about 3:30 into first movement is best Ive heard.


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