# NBA



## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

Share your thoughts ITT. Can be about current playoffs or just the state of the league in general. Anything really. Very interested in hearing what people have to say.


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## Triplets

Giannis is the best player in the league. If his name was easier to pronounce and if he played in a larger market than Milwaukee he would be so much better known. He is surrounded by good players but it would be interesting to see where they would be without him.


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## Room2201974

The NBA has mastered the "team tank" and apparently it's rubbed off on several MLB teams. Atlanta perfected it in the past 4 years and now Baltimore is taking the concept to new heights. Soon we'll reach Cleveland Spiders territory which is like batting 100 points below the Mendoza line and expecting your fans to hang in there with you for 162 games. The team tank may be the only weapon small market teams have to combat wealthy teams laughing at the salary cap. But it's excruciatingly hard on the fans.


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## Guest

I'm enjoying the playoffs. Sadly my team (Sacramento Kings) are not contenders (something I have accustomed myself to), but I am enjoying cheering for my other home state team, the Warriors. Hoping Durant's injury is nothing major.


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## Roger Knox

Still hoping for the Raptors in Game 7 Sunday -- go Kawhi (the Claw)!


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## Bulldog

The Boston Celtics did a nose-dive right in front of my eyes; it was pitiful to watch. Last year, they did quite well in the playoffs without the injured Irving. Just goes to show that picking up so-called "great" players isn't necessarily the answer. Irving was a terrible fit for the Celtics; he should have stayed in Cleveland. I'm sure the other Celtics players are ready to help Irving pack his bags and get lost.


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## philoctetes

Giannis made the Celtics look slow and flat-footed. Embiid is almost as great but the Bucks will sweep the next round. I'm a Warrior fan but sick of Draymond, even though he's absolutely essential to the team as a passer and tough guy.Portland looks too small to go all the way but their guards are most fun to watch. Denver v Milwaukee in the finals would be a nice rotation from the recent past and could go 7.


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## Guest

Amazing game tonight. Curry with 31 points, all in the second half. Warriors taking it from Houston, in Houston, without Durant. Nail-biting almost all the way to the end.


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## Triplets

I’d love to see a Giannis KD matchup


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## philoctetes

I'm guessing Dray will guard Giannis and find some way to miss a game by injury or suspension. We'll see.


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## Bulldog

philoctetes said:


> Denver v Milwaukee in the finals would be a nice rotation from the recent past and could go 7.


I don't think that Denver can hang with Golden State; they don't have the players or the experience.


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## philoctetes

Bulldog said:


> I don't think that Denver can hang with Golden State; they don't have the players or the experience.


Sure, I'd bet on GS if I was betting, given no spread. Just dreaming...


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## Trout

That Houston-GSW series was really incredible. Both teams' stars stepped up and played well especially in Game 6. Steve Kerr deserves a lot of credit for getting such a good bench performance and for finding new playable rotations on the fly to fill Durant's absence. It was as close as the team felt to the 2015 and 2016 Warriors in a long time. Kerr also brilliantly pulled out the seldom-used Curry-Draymond pick and roll at the end of the 4th and they executed it nearly flawlessly. Curry was once again unstoppable with the ball in his hands and, when Houston decided to double him, Draymond made great, lethal plays.

The WCF will probably be a bit of an anticlimax in comparison, but I'm really interested in the ECF. Milwaukee-Toronto or Milwaukee-Philly look like really good series on paper.


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## Roger Knox

Toronto-Milwaukee it is! Kawhi Leonard's game-winning shot at the buzzer was the difference in last night's 92-90 victory -- there's something uncanny about that man. Anyway, everyone's noticed him now. Philly 76'ers played a great series, could have gone either way. Go, Raptors!


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## Bwv 1080

As a Rockets fan, rooting for GS now to sweep the rest of the playoffs because it will make us look better

With KD and perhaps Cousins back, it may happen.


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## philoctetes

Sunday's games were a pure joy to watch. Denver / Portland one of the best series, unspoiled by bad tempers or bad calls, that I've seen in a long time. And I think Portland surprised a lot of people with clutch performances when it mattered.

"As a Rockets fan, rooting for GS now to sweep the rest of the playoffs because it will make us look better"

Gonna take more than that. As a Warriors fan, rooting for TBs now to take it all... just because...


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## amfortas

Room2201974 said:


> The NBA has mastered the "team tank" and apparently it's rubbed off on several MLB teams. Atlanta perfected it in the past 4 years and now Baltimore is taking the concept to new heights. Soon we'll reach Cleveland Spiders territory which is like batting 100 points below the Mendoza line and expecting your fans to hang in there with you for 162 games. The team tank may be the only weapon small market teams have to combat wealthy teams laughing at the salary cap. But it's excruciatingly hard on the fans.


Change the draft lottery, so that all the teams that don't make the playoffs have an equal chance at the top pick. Presto: No more tanking!

Yes, that makes it harder for the worst teams to get better right away. But if they're smart over time, they have as much chance to improve as anyone else. Especially if you tighten the salary cap.


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## Bulldog

amfortas said:


> Change the draft lottery, so that all the teams that don't make the playoffs have an equal chance at the top pick. Presto: No more tanking!
> 
> Yes, that makes it harder for the worst teams to get better right away.


Unfortunately, most of the worst teams don't get better at all. Bad ownership/management and poor decision making transcends a great draft position.


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## Phil loves classical

I'm not so confident in my hometeam, the Raptors. I feel the Bucks are much more talented overall. 

In the West, the Warriors probably had their toughest series for the rest of the playoffs other than the Bucks, with Houston, which they won without Durant.


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## Bwv 1080

So Zion goes to New Orleans


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## Bulldog

Bwv 1080 said:


> So Zion goes to New Orleans


Not if the team trades its draft pick or trades Zion after selecting him. It will be interesting to see what Anthony Davis decides to do. For his sake, I hope he doesn't remain in New Orleans. After all, 7 seasons with the team should be telling him that he's wasting his talents on a loser organization. My view is that he would be a perfect fit for the Celtics.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Klay Thompson of the Golden State Warriors listens to Mozart and Beethoven after games.


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## philoctetes

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Klay Thompson of the Golden State Warriors listens to Mozart and Beethoven after games.


I despised Klay in his first year - everybody did if you ask - before he learned where to be on the court. His development as a player is unmatched by anybody in the league IMO. Even James Hardin hasn't improved as much. Once a catch-and-shoot defensive specialist, Klay now creates his own shots with techniques from deep in the bag and his demeanor is always professional.


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## Phil loves classical

Raps blow 4th quarter lead. Too familiar.


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## Trout

Better game for Portland tonight, but even despite their lead throughout, it never really felt like the Warriors were in serious trouble. It could be partly due to their lackadaisical attitude they had in the first half on defense, plus Kerr reaching deep in the bench for their normal regular-season rotations to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. Portland shot the ball really well from deep and only really made Golden State kick into their high gear towards the end. That unguardable Curry-Draymond pick and roll was again a thing of beauty. Portland unfortunately doesn't have the personnel to match Houston's great defensive ability to switch everything. It's a shame Kerr only seems to pull it out of his back pocket at the end of close games.


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## Oldhoosierdude

My team is the Pacer's who have not been in any kind of contention since losing their best player for the season. So I look forward to the off season where I believe they will be active and make significant improvements.

As for the current playoffs I root for the Bucks. They have paid their dues over the recent years and I think they could surprise everyone in the finals if they get there.


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## Phil loves classical

Oldhoosierdude said:


> My team is the Pacer's who have not been in any kind of contention since losing their best player for the season. So I look forward to the off season where I believe they will be active and make significant improvements.
> 
> As for the current playoffs I root for the Bucks. They have paid their dues over the recent years and I think they could surprise everyone in the finals if they get there.


They'll get to the Finals. Having their way with the Raptors right now. I already told myself not to expect too much from the Raptors. It will be a tough Finals. The Bucks are hungry, and the Warriors may not be able to match their determination.


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## Oldhoosierdude

The Bucks will not be just an opponent if they make the finals. They have a well put together team. Gianni is the next big star, around the rim he plays like a taller Julius Erving.


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## philoctetes

Raptor defense has gone buck hunting. Too early to call the taxidermist though...


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## Phil loves classical

philoctetes said:


> Raptor defense has gone buck hunting. Too early to call the taxidermist though...


Have to give the other Raptors credit for finally not relying only on their star.


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## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Have to give the other Raptors credit for finally not relying only on their star.


There's a dynamic with the Raptors where they rely too much on Kawhi and get "rusty" or "timid," then put it together again when he pulls back. Last night that happened -- still need more from Gasol and Green though. One thing about this post-season: even with superstar Kawhi, the Raptors were semi-ignored elsewhere during the regular season, but now our team's still around with many better-known ones gone.


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## philoctetes

Roger Knox said:


> There's a dynamic with the Raptors where they rely too much on Kawhi and get "rusty" or "timid," then put it together again when he pulls back. Last night that happened -- still need more from Gasol and Green though. One thing about this post-season: even with superstar Kawhi, the Raptors were semi-ignored elsewhere during the regular season, but now our team's still around with many better-known ones gone.


All the Raptor starters are familiar names in the NBA, not 1st team all-stars, but experienced enough they could be able to rise under pressure as individuals while sticking to a game plan. Meanwhile the Bucks are cracking a bit and I don't expect another game 2 will happen.

OTOH, the Toronto fans energize the Raps in a way that shames Portland... so next game will be different without them.


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## Roger Knox

philoctetes said:


> All the Raptor starters are familiar names in the NBA, not 1st team all-stars, but experienced enough they could be able to rise under pressure as individuals while sticking to a game plan. Meanwhile the Bucks are cracking a bit and I don't expect another game 2 will happen.
> 
> OTOH, the Toronto fans energize the Raps in a way that shames Portland... so next game will be different without them.


Thanks -- you were kind enough not to mention Drake. Should we discuss him over at Music Theory, a more "competitive" Forum? (just kidding)


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## philoctetes

Roger Knox said:


> Thanks -- you were kind enough not to mention Drake. Should we discuss him over at Music Theory, a more "competitive" Forum? (just kidding)


I didn't even know who that was until the last game. I often watch with the announcers turned off, especially if it's Webber and Mr Downtown. Gundy and Jackson crack me up OTOH.


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## Phil loves classical

Roger Knox said:


> There's a dynamic with the Raptors where they rely too much on Kawhi and get "rusty" or "timid," then put it together again when he pulls back. Last night that happened -- still need more from Gasol and Green though. One thing about this post-season: even with superstar Kawhi, the Raptors were semi-ignored elsewhere during the regular season, but now our team's still around with many better-known ones gone.


Wow, impressive victory by the Raptors.


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## philoctetes

I thought this would happen but thought it frivolous to predict it. Shoulda played the line... the Raps found themselves as a team and are winning with tight defense and patience on offense. The "panel" - Barkley etc - have criticized them for lack of aggression but they are over that hump now. Good to see Van Vleet break out he's a steady ball handler.


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## Oldhoosierdude

Bucks in 7.....


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## philoctetes

Sure won''t be in 6...


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## philoctetes

Gonna be amazing if the refs don't screw this up... 7 seconds to go...


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## Oldhoosierdude

Oldhoosierdude said:


> Bucks in 7.....


May have to rethink that.


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## philoctetes

That stupid shot clock error almost cost Toronto the series, ridiculous. Congratulations to the Raps, welcome to the Bay Area.

I think any doubts about Kawhi have been eliminated. Could be the best player in the playoffs.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Oldhoosierdude said:


> May have to rethink that.


Maybe next year.


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## philoctetes

Maybe nobody remembers now but when Kawhi lost the ball while 2-teamed in the corner and the refs reviewed it - nobody, I mean NOBODY, seemed to realize that if Hall kicked the ball, that should have given the Raps possesson on a ball kick infraction. Wouldn't matter who touched it last. With that and the shot clock snafu I was screaming at the refs (well the TV actually). Crazy!


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

Opinion: the refs have way too much influence over the outcome of games.


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## Bulldog

Some claim that the "Greek Freak" is the best player in the NBA, but the series with Toronto proved otherwise. When the Bucks needed him to take over the game and save the team, he just kept passing the ball.


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## philoctetes

Toronto guarded Giannis well enough that refs weren't calling fouls on his drives. So he had to look for other options. When he did get fouled he missed a lot of free throws. That's a problem he has to fix if he wants to be MVP. 

IMO Kawhi is MVP right now until Durant comes back and it is still a tough choice. Curry would probably be my third choice. But Draymond's passing is what makes the Warriors so hard to stop.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Bulldog said:


> Some claim that the "Greek Freak" is the best player in the NBA, but the series with Toronto proved otherwise. When the Bucks needed him to take over the game and save the team, he just kept passing the ball.


He needs to become a better shooter. Most of his points comes from 3 feet of the basket.


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## Roger Knox

Johnnie Burgess said:


> He needs to become a better shooter. Most of his points comes from 3 feet of the basket.


Speaking of shooting, Raptors will try to limit the number of threes from the Warriors -- a big challenge!


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## philoctetes

Roger Knox said:


> Speaking of shooting, Raptors will try to limit the number of threes from the Warriors -- a big challenge!


Defending the Warriors is so hard, too many conflicting choices to make between covering the ball handler, guarding 3-pointers, cutting off passing lanes, keeping the baseline protected, and covering the corners. They can attack in so many ways. And when their offense slows down they can make plays in isolation or pick-and-roll.

If I was a coach I would try to get them in foul trouble. That won't be easy in Oakland. Warriors have a good bench but it can't beat Toronto without the stars. Kahwi at the line early and often. He'll look tired but he wants it bad enough. This will give the other Raps more room to get open.


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## Johnnie Burgess

Roger Knox said:


> Speaking of shooting, Raptors will try to limit the number of threes from the Warriors -- a big challenge!


Game 3 of the wcf's Golden state came back from 15 points down and in last 15 minutes of the game and only hit 1 three pointer in that timespan.


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## philoctetes

As I recall Draymond's big 3rd quarter was mostly assisted deuces... he totally broke Portland's spirit, and that of their wimpy fans too


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## Roger Knox

philoctetes said:


> As I recall Draymond's big 3rd quarter was mostly assisted deuces... he totally broke Portland's spirit, and that of their wimpy fans too


OK, so the Warriors can hurt you in many ways with all their talent and championship round experience! Even without Durant . . . At least our Raptors have home advantage and the fans aren't wimpy!


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## philoctetes

Roger Knox said:


> OK, so the Warriors can hurt you in many ways with all their talent and championship round experience! Even without Durant . . . At least our Raptors have home advantage and the fans aren't wimpy!


I had not realized you had the home ad... and no you fans are not wimpy. I kinda have a soft spot for y'all.


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## Roger Knox

philoctetes said:


> I had not realized you had the home ad... and no you fans are not wimpy. I kinda have a soft spot for y'all.


Thanks -- we'all need your sympathies if Warriors get on a Curry roll! Any chance he'll channel Giannis and throw an airball? Or that Draymond will get into foul trouble in Toronto? -- maybe if the refs wear special eyewear that automatically forces them to call his infractions. Or that when the series moves to San Francisco, Drake will go and just stay there (please, please)? Just sayin'.


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## philoctetes

'Or that Draymond will get into foul trouble in Toronto?"

Toronto has a few players who can push the ball into the middle and draw fouls. A big man should try to lure Bogut to the top of the key where Toronto guards can roll around him. Looney is on constant baseline patrol and he is stealthy at both ends. Fouling HIM out would make a difference.


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## Phil loves classical

Are the Raptors better as a team than Cleveland was the last few years? Defensively or offensively?


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## philoctetes

Phil loves classical said:


> Are the Raptors better as a team than Cleveland was the last few years? Defensively or offensively?


Can they read the clock better than the Cavs?


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## Pyotr

Warriors in five. The NBA is all about making the three. Raptors struggled to win their last two series because in some games they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Some of their games against my sixers, I never saw so many missed shots. Warriors have been there before and will not be phased by the limelight.


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## philoctetes

Before the game I read the previous post with amusement. I hope it's safe to say now that expectations can be adjusted? The Raptors we see now are better than the Raptors we saw when the playoffs started. Siakam is a breakout player who could be series MVP if he has another game like last night.

The world is laughing at Paul Pierce and he must be getting used to that. But the Warriors never put up a real challenge last night, no 3Q comeback, and that's impressive. Their bench can shoot but can it rebound and stop a Raptor team that is surprisingly good at passing the ball?

The NBA may be about 3-pointers, during the regular season. but during the playoffs it's about rebounding, defense, getting to the free throw line, and home court advantage... and the Raptors had all that last night, including the tres...

Would anybody change their bets now?


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## Bulldog

The Warriors strategy of surrounding Leonard with top-rate defensive players did work in that Leonard had a tough time. However, it allowed Toronto's other players to get plenty of good shots. If the Warriors continue this strategy, I think they will lose the series.

Then there's Durant. Will he play at all? Will he be rusty? He's the key player for Golden State, and he is an unknown at this point.

As for Cousins, he was useless. Even when healthy, he can be a liability.


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## Roger Knox

Bulldog said:


> The Warriors strategy of surrounding Leonard with top-rate defensive players did work in that Leonard had a tough time. However, it allowed Toronto's other players to get plenty of good shots. If the Warriors continue this strategy, I think they will lose the series.
> 
> Then there's Durant. Will he play at all? Will he be rusty? He's the key player for Golden State, and he is an unknown at this point.
> 
> As for Cousins, he was useless. Even when healthy, he can be a liability.


Yes a lot depends on injuries, with up to 6 games to go. And the commentators think Warriors will change their strategy of double-teaming Leonard, in order to stop some of the others. Durant coming back would be very significant!


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## philoctetes

Bulldog said:


> The Warriors strategy of surrounding Leonard with top-rate defensive players did work in that Leonard had a tough time. However, it allowed Toronto's other players to get plenty of good shots. If the Warriors continue this strategy, I think they will lose the series.
> 
> Then there's Durant. Will he play at all? Will he be rusty? He's the key player for Golden State, and he is an unknown at this point.
> 
> As for Cousins, he was useless. Even when healthy, he can be a liability.


I saw Cousins make one good assist, but did he play more than 5 minutes? Did Bogut play at all? Is Iguadala too injured to play? Was Looney a factor? And Klay lost his head... I think the refs have seen that stunt he pulled before... so they said "not in these Finals"...

The Warriors are not a popular team... Toronto has a whole nation behind them... Mr Silver is paid to notice these things...

Drake to Draymond - "you're just trash" - Adam will see that too...


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## Roger Knox

philoctetes said:


> Drake to Draymond - "you're just trash" - Adam will see that too...


Drake's an embarassment to Toronto. Maybe this time he'll get banned! Detracting from the Raptors' achievements in my opinion.


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## philoctetes

Their feud doesn't seem to have that touch of class we saw with Spike and Reggie...

Then there's the guy in the turban, he seems to keep his cool...


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## Phil loves classical

philoctetes said:


> Before the game I read the previous post with amusement. I hope it's safe to say now that expectations can be adjusted? The Raptors we see now are better than the Raptors we saw when the playoffs started. Siakam is a breakout player who could be series MVP if he has another game like last night.
> 
> The world is laughing at Paul Pierce and he must be getting used to that. But the Warriors never put up a real challenge last night, no 3Q comeback, and that's impressive. Their bench can shoot but can it rebound and stop a Raptor team that is surprisingly good at passing the ball?
> 
> The NBA may be about 3-pointers, during the regular season. but during the playoffs it's about rebounding, defense, getting to the free throw line, and home court advantage... and the Raptors had all that last night, including the tres...
> 
> Would anybody change their bets now?


Van Vleet mentioned during the conference finals at one point that it was too much of Leonard carrying the team. It's good Gasol really seemed to contribute a lot more. I think he was a big part of the recent success.


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## Phil loves classical

Is Durant hoping the team will lose without him?

https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/art...n-free-agency-Nets-Knicks-injury-13962116.php


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## philoctetes

Phil loves classical said:


> Is Durant hoping the team will lose without him?
> 
> https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/art...n-free-agency-Nets-Knicks-injury-13962116.php


He's not thinking about this year anymore IMO... too bad I will miss the game but I just got tickets to see Dhafour Youssef and Tigran Himasyan tonight...

Cousins doesn't have a quick release from outside. Curry was in the wrong place on defense in all of game 4 and the refs are not giving him the sideways hip or foot kick foul anymore. Klay was visibly upset with Steph who is now acting like a lost kid on the court, slouching and making faces... The refs are not going to let the Warriors win dirty - no more Patchouli Oil defense on runouts, etc - and I'm OK with that.


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## Phil loves classical

You won't miss it. It's tomorrow night!


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## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> You won't miss it. It's tomorrow night!


I will be watching tomorrow. Police have told people in Toronto not to bring cars downtown, for someone like me it will be something to stay away from -- everyone going bananas if Toronto wins or maybe even if they lose, which is quite possible. Like a Beethoven Symphony, it ain't over till it's over.


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## Phil loves classical

Roger Knox said:


> I will be watching tomorrow. Police have told people in Toronto not to bring cars downtown, for someone like me it will be something to stay away from -- everyone going bananas if Toronto wins or maybe even if they lose, which is quite possible. Like a Beethoven Symphony, it ain't over till it's over.


Lucky you. I watched on TV, but the way they hyped it on Sportsnet, and added music, narrative and drama pre-game was so unbearable, I switched to ABC. Disappointed in the TO fans cheering when KD went down. I cheered for the Dubs in this game to win, was a real nail biter ending.


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## philoctetes

I missed a lot of the game, had an unexpected visitor... but KD wasted no time getting trashy with Van Vleet, who had his own injury, so the fans were already hating KD before he went down... now KD has an Achilles injury so I hope Warriors management are happy with themselves...

If the Warriors win, KD should get MVP just for showing up last night. Then he should get out of CA ASAP.


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## Phil loves classical

philoctetes said:


> I missed a lot of the game, had an unexpected visitor... but KD wasted no time getting trashy with Van Vleet, who had his own injury, so the fans were already hating KD before he went down... now KD has an Achilles injury so I hope Warriors management are happy with themselves...
> 
> If the Warriors win, KD should get MVP just for showing up last night. Then he should get out of CA ASAP.


Not sure if there is anyone to blame, from some sources it sounded like he was dying to play. I was glad that he made a huge impact, contrary to Bowen saying he would be a liability.


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## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Not sure if there is anyone to blame, from some sources it sounded like he was dying to play. I was glad that he made a huge impact, contrary to Bowen saying he would be a liability.


Lots of agony to go around in Game 5. Can Game 6 in the Oracle -- last ever -- be any crazier than this one was?


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## Guest

Phil loves classical said:


> Not sure if there is anyone to blame, from some sources it sounded like he was dying to play. I was glad that he made a huge impact, contrary to Bowen saying he would be a liability.


The Warriors certainly in that last minute gave the Raptors every opportunity to take the victory from them, from the backcourt foul, to the moving screen. Luckily they pulled together some great defense on that final play.


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## Roger Knox

Not happy with the Raptors' fans cheering in Game 5 when KD went down, although it quickly turned to appreciative clapping when they realized he was injured. Raptors now need to get the defense together as they've done previously, and have better flow in shot setup and execution in the Oracle.


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## philoctetes

Too bad Chris Webber wasn't doing commentary when the Warriors called time out at the end...


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## Guest

I would have liked to see the Warriors take it to Game 7, but with Durant out, and then Klay going out in the third with an injury to his ACL, that was just too much against a team as good as the Raptors. Still - without the injuries, would it have ended the same? Klay left the game in the 3rd with 30 points - that is a huge loss. Curry seemed to be trying to do too much by himself once Klay was gone. That last shot was horrible - why they didn't try to force the lane and draw the foul, I don't know. The dramatic 3-pointers are great, but I miss the type of basketball that we saw back in the day, with working the ball around and driving to the basket, rather than setting up for a 3-pointer.

It was telling that, with 2 key players out, the Raptors still only barely pulled it out. Speaks a lot to the depth of the Warriors bench.


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## philoctetes

I would say that two players on the Warriors bench - Cousins and Cook - rose above their average performance, but the rest were of less value and were out-rebounded. It was a series of attrition for the Warriors, and the longer it went the less chance they had of winning. I think this was one of the weakest Warriors bench in recent years.

Injuries happen to one team and not the other - why? Because the other team is in better condition and is playing at a higher level, faster and more intense. We see the upside and downside of a champion mentaility - to seek efficiency and save your best for when it matters. But when the other team is too physically challenging this mentality backfires. 

So Klay, not giving up yet, overextends himself physically and down he goes. Curry had already decided he wasn't going to go that route, so in the 4th quarter we see him walking back on defense, not running. His performance is the most disappointing, he depended too much on the others and couldn't raise his game when they fell. I recall Gundy praising Steph's rebounding against Portland, but it disappeared in the finals. Draymond had done a conditioning program and lost a lot of weight, or he might be in the hospital too. 

Toronto totally earned this title and were only lucky that the refs did not take this game away from them at the end.


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## Roger Knox

After 24 years the Raptors have won the NBA title. People in Toronto partied hard last night! 

A lot of talk about how this will change the NBA but I wouldn't count on it. Its really the accomplishment of a dedicated group that's to be recognized!


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## Guest

Roger Knox said:


> After 24 years the Raptors have won the NBA title. People in Toronto partied hard last night!
> 
> A lot of talk about how this will change the NBA but I wouldn't count on it. Its really the accomplishment of a dedicated group that's to be recognized!


Sorry, but 24 years is not that long. Go talk to a Nets fan. Or a Clippers fan. Or a Kings fan. I won't go through the whole list. It was a good win. But they have hardly been that long-suffering, compared to others.


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## philoctetes

"Go talk to a Nets fan. Or a Clippers fan"

They still exist?


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## Guest

philoctetes said:


> "Go talk to a Nets fan. Or a Clippers fan"
> 
> They still exist?


I'm a Kings fan - as far as I know, they haven't won a championship since they were known as the Rochester Royals back in the 50s. If I exist, I'm sure there are still Nets and Clippers fans.


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## Bulldog

DrMike said:


> I'm a Kings fan - as far as I know, they haven't won a championship since they were known as the Rochester Royals back in the 50s. If I exist, I'm sure there are still Nets and Clippers fans.


Of course, and if Leonard signs with the Clippers, the fan-base will expand.


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## Phil loves classical

Impressed with both teams in finals. Raptors for being so cool-headed first time out and under new coach. They got a whole lot better as the playoffs progressed, rising above every challenge. Lowry and Van Vleet are a great point guard combo. I was and still am a Warriors fan throughout their whole dynasty. Their firepower with everyone healthy is unbeatable. For them to pull so close with all the injuries was amazing. I didn't route for anyone in particular. Just wanted to see a Game 7, so I was routing for Golden State to pull through. Nice to hear Klay's dad's comment suggesting both Klay and Durant will resign with GS.


----------



## Roger Knox

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nb...in-with-downtown-parade/ar-AAD0ktw?li=AAggNb9

Millions of fans downtown for Toronto Raptors victory parade today.


----------



## Oldhoosierdude

I am happy for Toronto. They deserve it.


----------



## Roger Knox

Oldhoosierdude said:


> I am happy for Toronto. They deserve it.


Thanks. If you're based in Indiana I'm guessing you know a thing or two about basketball! I went to I.U. in the '70's and some of the players from their championship team (1979?) came north to the Raptors later -- Isiah Thomas, Glenn Grunwald -- as well as the owner of the Raptors back then John Bitove, who went to I.U. Business School.


----------



## Roger Knox

post repeated and deleted


----------



## Guest

Roger Knox said:


> Thanks. If you're based in Indiana I'm guessing you know a thing or two about basketball! I went to I.U. in the '70's and some of the players from their championship team (1979?) came north to the Raptors later -- Isiah Thomas, Glenn Grunwald -- as well as the owner of the Raptors back then John Bitove, who went to I.U. Business School.


So was this all a plan set in motion back in 1995 to get payback for the fact that no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since 1993?


----------



## Roger Knox

DrMike said:


> So was this all a plan set in motion back in 1995 to get payback for the fact that no Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup since 1993?


Hardly. I made the reply about Indiana and the early Raptors because the poster is Oldhoosierdude. We aren't organized enough to get payback for hockey with basketball 25 years later! (Disorganization was also evident in yesterday's victory parade which was too big, ran way late, and had a scary situation at the periphery with 4 people injured by gun shots.) Actually Toronto hasn't won the Stanley Cup since 1967 and the Jays last won the World Series in 1993. While it was said that the huge turnout for the parade was because Toronto was hungry for a championship, I'm not so sure why the powers that be were over-promoting the parade -- it was just way, way too much.


----------



## Guest

Roger Knox said:


> Hardly. I made the reply about Indiana and the early Raptors because the poster is Oldhoosierdude. We aren't organized enough to get payback for hockey with basketball 25 years later! (Disorganization was also evident in yesterday's victory parade which was too big, ran way late, and had a scary situation at the periphery with 4 people injured by gun shots.) Actually Toronto hasn't won the Stanley Cup since 1967 and the Jays last won the World Series in 1993. While it was said that the huge turnout for the parade was because Toronto was hungry for a championship, I'm not so sure why the powers that be were over-promoting the parade -- it was just way, way too much.


Maybe if you still had Tom Ford as mayor - he might have known how to throw a party.


----------



## perempe

Which game shall I watch on YouTube? You can rank the top 3/5 most enjoyable.

I saw only the last game of the 2005 Finals. Manu showed solid mid-range game and an amazing euro. Pop may hate 3s, but they won with those 15 years ago (watch Horry's).


----------



## Roger Knox

*NBA Playoffs 2020*

The big story about the NBA 2020 playoffs so far is that they're happening at all -- a great tribute to the organizers and participants. Let's hope for a successful windup to the 2019-2020 season; already there's some great basketball being played!

It's strange to think of Toronto Raptors defending the 2019 NBA title at this time of the year, and with so much having happened meantime -- but here we are. Before anyone mentions Kawhi Leonard, let me say he's an amazing, unique player! With Paul George and the strong Clippers roster and coaching, he may well be on the championship team again this time, but some strong teams including the Raptors have other ideas. Without Kawhi, Toronto has more of a team approach that worked very well this season. In the East I'm worried about the Celtics and the Heat as well as the obvious rivals, Boston and Philadelphia. In the West the Clippers are joined by the Lakers, Houston, Denver, and other significant obstacles to a Raptor repeat.


----------



## Phil loves classical

I'm surprised the Raptors did this well. They definitely grew as a team without Leonard. But I have doubts on their talent level when it comes to the Playoffs against stacked teams like both LA's.


----------



## Bulldog

Phil loves classical said:


> I'm surprised the Raptors did this well. They definitely grew as a team without Leonard. But I have doubts on their talent level when it comes to the Playoffs against stacked teams like both LA's.


The Clippers might be stacked, but they have under-performed all year. The chemistry is lacking, so I don't see them getting past the Lakers. Heck, Dallas could upset them.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Bulldog said:


> The Clippers might be stacked, but they have under-performed all year. The chemistry is lacking, so I don't see them getting past the Lakers. Heck, Dallas could upset them.


True dat. There are really no teams that are really proven this year. Not even the Lakers or Bucks except in regular season. I'm very interested in how Golden State turns out next year.


----------



## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> There are really no teams that are really proven this year.


Nevertheless some pretty exciting games and great basketball during the 2020 playoffs e.g. the Mavericks and Doncic last night. I didn't really think the whole bubble series idea would work but it's happening, both in basketball and in hockey (the game I grew up on). Not an easy situation for the players to be in though.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Roger Knox said:


> Nevertheless some pretty exciting games and great basketball during the 2020 playoffs e.g. the Mavericks and Doncic last night. I didn't really think the whole bubble series idea would work but it's happening, both in basketball and in hockey (the game I grew up on). Not an easy situation for the players to be in though.


Oh ya, I'm probably more interested this year in how things turn out, since there is less predictability (at least for me). I'm liking the idea of no home-court advantage.


----------



## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Oh ya, I'm probably more interested this year in how things turn out, since there is less predictability (at least for me). I'm liking the idea of no home-court advantage.


Canadians Jamal Murray (Denver) and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma) are doing pretty well, eh?


----------



## Phil loves classical

Roger Knox said:


> Canadians Jamal Murray (Denver) and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma) are doing pretty well, eh?


Haven't been keeping up with a lot of younger hosers, eh.


----------



## Roger Knox

On another note, the NBA teams beginning with Milwaukee Bucks who have sat out in protest have had a big impact, at least in the media. I agree with the point they're making but also am looking forward to the playoffs re-starting tomorrow or Saturday.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Raptors likely done in this series. Curious how the Bucks will turn out. I still don't feel they're that playoff-battle-tested.


----------



## Roger Knox

Neither team has started Round 2 well. Boston teams have always been tough for Toronto -- in all sports.


----------



## Bulldog

Two super games today. I'm hoping that the underdog OKC's wins the series. Houston deserves to lose given its sub-par head coach and the usual bone-head plays by Westbrook.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Bulldog said:


> Two super games today. I'm hoping that the underdog OKC's wins the series. Houston deserves to lose given its sub-par head coach and the usual bone-head plays by Westbrook.


My bro-in-law and I were just talking about it yesterday. We're both not fans of Westbrook.


----------



## Bulldog

Phil loves classical said:


> My bro-in-law and I were just talking about it yesterday. We're both not fans of Westbrook.


Westbrook's talent is off the charts, but he isn't a smart player.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Bulldog said:


> Westbrook's talent is off the charts, but he isn't a smart player.


Just a bit selfish too. Fights for rebounds from his own teammates, but has some blatant defensive lapses.


----------



## perempe

Nash -----> BKN


----------



## Phil loves classical

That was some clutch shot by Raptors to keep their hopes alive.


----------



## Roger Knox

Tonight is a crucial game for both the Celtics and the Raptors. The Celtics are such a storied franchise, I think that in itself adds to their game. And the current roster is excellent. Raptors will have to be at their best to win tonight -- if they are they can tie the series.


----------



## Phil loves classical

The way the Bucks are getting whopped is kind of surprising. I read somewhere it makes sense for them to try to sign Lowry. It makes sense for Raptors to trade him as well I think. They already have Van Vleet who can play point, and he's kind of undersized for a shooting guard.

Maybe I spoke too soon. Great game for Lowry.


----------



## Roger Knox

With the Raptors and Celtics series tied 2-2 it looks like no team is invincible. Same with Clippers and Nuggets although I still feel Clippers will take it.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Hopefully they figured out a way with Boston. I'd like to see them in the conference finals, I don't think anyone would have expected them to go that far without Kawhi. it's over for the Bucks with Giannis out - hopefully he's out for his own sake, reinjuring the same ankle today. Some can't see him staying in Milwaukee after this season, and that Miami is a likely destination.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Odds are against the Bucks. I read an interesting piece that Giannis has to demand more from his organization to go over the cap (they let Brogdon go, because they wanted to save money, which proved to be mistake), that he is being too "nice".

Some rumours of Chris Paul being a potential target for the Bucks.


----------



## Roger Knox

Now that they're down 3-2 in the series, last chance for the Raptors tonight. How does a team play well one day and poorly the next?


----------



## Bulldog

Roger Knox said:


> Now that they're down 3-2 in the series, last chance for the Raptors tonight. How does a team play well one day and poorly the next?


That's the human factor and revised strategies.


----------



## Phil loves classical

As Kevin Love Twittered (sorry tweeted), it was an incredible game. Raptors forcing Game 7


----------



## Phil loves classical

Not a thrilling ending to the Raptors' season. Their energy level just wasn't there except in the first quarter, and the turnovers were painful. But they did hang on till the end. With Lowry, their most dependable player aging, they need to bring in some more talent to support Siakim, who i think is a better supporting player than go-to guy in the playoffs. They did way better than I expected this season, but may still be the beginning of them fizzling out in the Eastern Conference.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Big upset for Clippers! Kawhi shoulda stayed in TO. Kawhi and Paul George scoreless in 4th quarter?


----------



## Roger Knox

With 3-1 series leads being held by both the Lakers and the Heat, I'm starting to consider what a Los Angeles-Miami final might look like. The Lakers should win IMO provided that their defence holds up, which may be a problem given Miami's inspired play. As shown by Tyler Herro in their Game 4 against Boston!


----------



## Bulldog

It's probably favorable that no NBA team this year was one of the best ever. Makes for more intense competition.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Roger Knox said:


> With 3-1 series leads being held by both the Lakers and the Heat, I'm starting to consider what a Los Angeles-Miami final might look like. The Lakers should win IMO provided that their defence holds up, which may be a problem given Miami's inspired play. As shown by Tyler Herro in their Game 4 against Boston!


I never heard of Jamal Murray till you mentioned him, but he's amazing. You see those air moves he did on Lebron in that one layup? I think the fact the Lakers have 2 great playmakers in Lebron and Rondo, plus a great big in Davis, is tough for any team to beat. They should create problems for Miami's zone defense, and in matchups.


----------



## Roger Knox

I guess we can't write off the Celtics yet after last night's Game 5! Or the Nuggets. "It ain't over till it's over."


----------



## Phil loves classical

I was hoping Denver would win to take it to Game 6, but Lakers are too strong. I'm less interested in the Miami/Celtics. I was hoping Miami would clean them out last game.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Good start for the Heat so far. I'm hoping they prove everyone wrong.

Yikes. Things really went bad for the Heat.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Ugh... With the injuries in the Heat, it's not really looking positive. Anybody still giving the Heat a chance?


----------



## Roger Knox

The Miami Heat are back in it. I still think the Lakers will win, but in these playoffs no one is invincible.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Heat hanging on so far, end of 3rd quarter. Really hope they could extend the series. Butler on verge of another triple double.

Great job by the Heat! That Butler is something else. He has my vote for Finals MVP.


----------



## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Great job by the Heat! That Butler is something else. He has my vote for Finals MVP.


I didn't watch this one and I can't believe the Heat pulled it off, 111-108! Or that Butler played 47 minutes, among other things. If I were the L.A. coach ... aww, forget it!


----------



## Roger Knox

The inevitable has come to pass -- Los Angeles Lakers win the finals in 6.

The bubble idea worked for the NBA as it did with the NHL hockey playoffs in Edmonton -- with no COVID-19 spreading! Those are terrific accomplishments, perhaps even more so than the athletic achievements themselves. They show what can be done when participants buy into the protocols that have been set up.


----------



## perempe

It will be hard for the teams to hide the positive/ill players as the season is about to begin...


----------



## perempe

Sixers had 7 players agaist the Nuggets.


----------



## perempe

On Lakers at Hawks: verbal comfrontaton between a fan and a player? No actions needed.
Whole stands would be empty in european soccer games.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Pretty sad seeing the decline of Blake Griffin. I see lots of articles saying he's got no trade value.


----------



## Bulldog

Phil loves classical said:


> Pretty sad seeing the decline of Blake Griffin. I see lots of articles saying he's got no trade value.


Blake's an odd case. When playing at the college level, he was considered a man of steel, but in the NBA he had a reputation for being emotionally weak and a loser. That's a shame given all his abilities (shooting wasn't one of them).


----------



## Roger Knox

As of yesterday the Toronto Raptors' record is 12-13. They have clawed their way back to respectability after a horrible start and seem to have adapted to this season's changes in player personnel. Management is now in place except for kingpin Masai Ujiri, who has everyone wondering what his plans for next year are.


----------



## Roger Knox

This year Gasol went to the Lakers and Ibaka to the Clippers. Raptors may need to trade for a tall tough centre to replace what D they lost. So far Van Vleet, Siakam, Lowry, and Powell are playing well, Annunoby is injured. Bembry, Boucher doing better than expected, team is holding together but will this be enough to surmount .500-level basketball?


----------



## Roger Knox

Being fixated on the Eastern Conference, it's surprising to see Utah Jazz touted as potential NBA champions this season. Yet after looking at the current Western Conference standings with the Jazz on top and the Lakers and Clippers in pursuit, the 7-game Utah win streak, and the great roster with Donovan Mitchell & co., it all starts to make sense. A lot more basketball to be played, though.


----------



## eljr

I did not know we had an NBA thread here! 

Good stuff. 

My Brooklyn Nets have an amazing scoring trio now but have no desire, don't play defense and think it fun to turn the ball over more than anyone they play.


----------



## Bulldog

eljr said:


> I did not know we had an NBA thread here!
> 
> Good stuff.
> 
> My Brooklyn Nets have an amazing scoring trio now but have no desire, don't play defense and think it fun to turn the ball over more than anyone they play.


Well, they are 3rd in the Eastern Conference; that's not shabby. The Nets just might be a good example of a bad mix of big stars. Irving often doesn't have his head on straight, and Harden isn't a winner. It's up to Durant to take the team to the heights.


----------



## Phil loves classical

I believe a team like Milwaukee, Boston and Miami would destroy Brooklyn in the playoffs. I have doubts they will reach the Finals.


----------



## eljr

Phil loves classical said:


> I believe a team like Milwaukee, Boston and Miami would destroy Brooklyn in the playoffs. I have doubts they will reach the Finals.


I would be shocked if the Nets made the finals.

I am not kidding when I say you can't win a title without playing defense or when your point thinks it a part of his game to give the ball away 5 times a game.

And although Irving may be the most amazing playing in the NBA for the beauty of his movements, he is just not driven. Not even a little.

Still, they can be fun to watch and they are "my" Brooklyn Nets.


----------



## mmsbls

It will be interesting to see how the Nets do later in the season. When James and Bosh joined Wade in Miami, they struggled slightly at first until they learned to play together. Irving, Durant, and Hardin are all new to the team and each other. Clearly, they will need time (along with the rest of the team) to understand how to play with each other. 

I agree that defense will be a critical determinant to their future. Durant is a good defender, but Irving is a liability on defense. Hardin is by far the most improved defensive player in the NBA over the past several years although that doesn't say much given how laughable he used to be. He is actually a remarkably good post defender, but he doesn't defend the post much. The question will be how well the Nets defend as a team, and we won't know until later in the season or the playoffs. 

I grew up within walking distance of the Nets arena in Brooklyn, and although I was a fan of the ABA NY Nets, I never became a strong fan of the NBA New Jersey, or now, Brooklyn Nets.


----------



## eljr

mmsbls said:


> I grew up within walking distance of the Nets arena in Brooklyn.


Small world! I lived on Dean St., corner of Smith in the 80's, On Clinton St. in Cobble Hill in the 90's. Both also very walkable to where the stadium is now.


----------



## perempe

Currently both Indy and Toronto are ahead of Boston, but neither will give any all-star players. Boston has two (Brown & Tatum).

No Spurs players despite their record (~.600).

Centers -Gobert & Vučević- can get in despite not making the top10 in the fan vote.


----------



## eljr

perempe said:


> Currently both Indy and Toronto are ahead of Boston, but neither will give any all-star players. Boston has two (Brown & Tatum).
> 
> No Spurs players despite their record (~.600).
> 
> Centers -Gobert & Vučević- can get in despite not making the top10 in the fan vote.


3 Nets. :tiphat:


----------



## jegreenwood

Bulldog said:


> Well, they are 3rd in the Eastern Conference; that's not shabby. The Nets just might be a good example of a bad mix of big stars. Irving often doesn't have his head on straight, and Harden isn't a winner. It's up to Durant to take the team to the heights.


Given that the Nets are on a 7 game win streak, mostly without Durant, you may need to reconsider.

They do seem to turn every game into a cliffhanger. I recall watching a game where they blew a 5 point lead with about 6 seconds to go.


----------



## Phil loves classical

perempe said:


> Currently both Indy and Toronto are ahead of Boston, but neither will give any all-star players. Boston has two (Brown & Tatum).
> 
> No Spurs players despite their record (~.600).
> 
> Centers -Gobert & Vučević- can get in despite not making the top10 in the fan vote.


Didn't pay attention for a while, so I'm glad to see the Raptors back in playoff contention. But I'm really fixated on Golden State to continue their dynasty next year.


----------



## perempe

jegreenwood said:


> Given that the Nets are on a 7 game win streak, mostly without Durant, you may need to reconsider.
> 
> They do seem to turn every game into a cliffhanger. I recall watching a game where they blew a 5 point lead with about 6 seconds to go.


They need the length of KD, I'm very surprised that they can win games without him.

The former Nets' center, Allen had a spectacular game yesterday.


----------



## perempe

Will Bojan Bogdanovic make Shaqtin' A Fool with this play (0:33)?
According to the play-by-play, it's an offensive team rebound, Bogdanovic isn't mentioned.






Talen Horton-Tucker missed a dunk in the middle of the 4th, that could be another candidate.


----------



## Bulldog

jegreenwood said:


> Given that the Nets are on a 7 game win streak, mostly without Durant, you may need to reconsider.


It's way too early in the season to reconsider.


----------



## perempe

2 interesting stats:
Memphis missed 41 threes on Sunday, were beaten by 49,
McConnell's triple double with 10 steals without a missed shot.


----------



## eljr

Brooklyn Net's teh hottest team in basketball right now with their best player out injured. How good has Brooklyn been? Nicolas Claxton, a second-round pick in 2019 who has played only 20 games in his NBA career has instantly developed chemistry with Harden on the pick-and-roll, scoring 33 points on 14-of-17 shooting over the last two games.

He did this in 33 minutes, btw.

Way fun watching the Net's this year!


----------



## perempe

I watch camrips nowadays.

NBA players should make off-hand layups. Brooklyn's last game showed us even good players can't.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Kind of routing for the Suns to take it all. Chris Paul is a great player, and I want to see him win a championship. Always had some doubts about the Clippers, but they may have found something. Was impressed Harden was able to fit in with the Nets.


----------



## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Kind of routing for the Suns to take it all. Chris Paul is a great player, and I want to see him win a championship. Always had some doubts about the Clippers, but they may have found something. Was impressed Harden was able to fit in with the Nets.


Philadelphia '76ers or Atlanta Hawks? Joel Embiid or Trae Young? Is it a tossup now? I didn't think the Hawks would get this far.


----------



## Bulldog

Roger Knox said:


> Philadelphia '76ers or Atlanta Hawks? Joel Embiid or Trae Young? Is it a tossup now? I didn't think the Hawks would get this far.


And Simmons is a big problem because he can't shoot decently. A point guard who can't make foul shots is rare in the NBA.


----------



## perempe

Roger Knox said:


> Philadelphia '76ers or Atlanta Hawks? Joel Embiid or Trae Young? Is it a tossup now? I didn't think the Hawks would get this far.


Embiid was a shell of his former self (on defense as well) in G4, I expect the Hawks to advance.


----------



## Phil loves classical

perempe said:


> Embiid was a shell of his former self (on defense as well) in G4, I expect the Hawks to advance.


Haven't really followed the 76'ers lately, but surprised the Hawks are leading the series. I'll be watching the Bucks/Nets game tomorrow night for sure. Wanting the Bucks to come through in that series.


----------



## Roger Knox

Phil loves classical said:


> Haven't really followed the 76'ers lately, but surprised the Hawks are leading the series. I'll be watching the Bucks/Nets game tomorrow night for sure. Wanting the Bucks to come through in that series.


What I like is that Giannis does it in the paint. I'm not a fan of threes, though I admire the players who can nail them (like that Curry fellow who grew up in Toronto when his father Dell Curry played for the Raptors.)


----------



## Bulldog

Roger Knox said:


> What I like is that Giannis does it in the paint. I'm not a fan of threes, though I admire the players who can nail them (like that Curry fellow who grew up in Toronto when his father Dell Curry played for the Raptors.)


The problem is that Giannis doesn't spend enough time in the paint. Although not as bad as Ben Simmons, Giannis is not a good jump shooter and shouldn't even bother with them unless close to the basket. And his foul line shooting is abysmal.


----------



## Clloydster

I'm more of a baseball man, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching my Hawks beat the Sixers in 7. Trae nearly gave me a heart attack with his lackluster shooting game, but the rest of the team really stepped up. Hell of a series between the two. I'm excited to watch the Hawks take on the Bucks.


----------



## Triplets

Gotta Love the swagger of Trae and the Hawks. And Ben Simmons—what a Head Case. Anyone think his career is salvageable? Giannis finally gets to the Finals. I don’t know what to make of Phoenix-Clippers, but I would like to see KP3 make the finals as well.


----------



## Bulldog

Triplets said:


> And Ben Simmons-what a Head Case. Anyone think his career is salvageable?


Sure it is. His problems are mental and mechanical; both can be fixed. Also, he's only 22 years old.


----------



## progmatist

Phil loves classical said:


> Kind of routing for the Suns to take it all. Chris Paul is a great player, and I want to see him win a championship. Always had some doubts about the Clippers, but they may have found something. Was impressed Harden was able to fit in with the Nets.


We're certainly hungry for a championship here in the Phoenix area. Our one and only was when the D-Backs won it all, almost exactly 20 years ago. As for the Nets, former Suns franchise player Steve Nash performed phenomenally well as their head coach. Especially considering he's been a head coach for about a minute.


----------



## Triplets

Bulldog said:


> Sure it is. His problems are mental and mechanical; both can be fixed. Also, he's only 22 years old.


Hopefully for Philly you are right. No one else is likely to want to touch that contract. It sounds like Embid and Rivers have given up on him


----------



## Phil loves classical

For the matchups currently, I favour the Bucks and Suns. If they meet in the Finals. I'm not sure who I'd pick yet. Maybe the Suns with Chris Paul's window of opportunity dwindling.


----------



## Phil loves classical

Phoenix vs Bucks in Finals. Buck eliminate Trae Young and Hawks without Giannis. With Giannis I think the Bucks have a size and in-paint advantage. Tough call.


----------



## progmatist

Milwaukee is just north of Chicago, from where the Suns' last finals opponents haled. Coincidence?


----------



## SearsPoncho

Phil loves classical said:


> For the matchups currently, I favour the Bucks and Suns. If they meet in the Finals. I'm not sure who I'd pick yet. Maybe the Suns with Chris Paul's window of opportunity dwindling.


Good call. Suns look like the superior team, even when Giannis plays. I don't think the Bucks coach* is very good at making adjustments or changing strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a sweep. Bucks might have the best player who's good at playing 1-on-1 basketball, but the Suns play as a team.

*By the way, the Bucks coach always looks like he just got pulled out of a dumpster after going on a bender. He couldn't clean up a little for the NBA Finals? Pat Riley: "I only wear Armani suits." Bucks coach: "I like track suits!"


----------



## Bulldog

One of the ESPN analysts said that the Bucks are the dumbest team ever to make the Finals.


----------



## progmatist

The Suns are leading in an NBA Finals for the first time ever. Their 2 previous trips, the Celtics and Bulls took an immediate lead. The Bulls on the Suns' home court.


----------



## SearsPoncho

I guess this is "never underestimate the heart of a champion" time. Series tied 2-2. It's nice to see the smaller market teams getting their due.


----------



## Bulldog

I'm picking the Suns to win the next game and championship - so long Bucks!


----------



## progmatist

SearsPoncho said:


> I guess this is "never underestimate the heart of a champion" time. Series tied 2-2. It's nice to see the smaller market teams getting their due.


This brings up echoes of the World Series 20 year ago. The D-Backs and Yankees won every game on their own home field. If the AL had Home Field Advantage rather than the NL, the Yankees would've won. Here too, the Suns had Home Court Advantage going into the Finals.


----------



## Triplets

Bulldog said:


> I'm picking the Suns to win the next game and championship - so long Bucks!


How is that working out for you?


----------



## Bwv 1080

Giannis is a monster, but needs to work on his free throws

As a Rockets fan, would be equally happy with Chris Paul or PJ Tucker getting a title.

This was a great interview


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

I’m from Minnesota so I feel automatically obliged to cheer against anything to do with Wisconsin, but I have to admit that the Bucks are a fun team to watch. I’m just glad that, after, what, almost 10 years of some combination of Warriors/Cavs/Heat/Lakers hegemony in the NBA Finals, we get to see some different teams rise up that haven’t had success in years.


----------



## Phil loves classical

^ Giannis is a very humble guy. The Suns look to be in trouble. Not sure if they can turn the boat around.


----------



## Bwv 1080

From game 4, one of the greatest defensive plays ever


----------



## Bulldog

Triplets said:


> How is that working out for you?


I was wrong, but that's okay. I'm not a fan of either team.


----------



## SearsPoncho

Allegro Con Brio said:


> I'm from Minnesota so I feel automatically obliged to cheer against anything to do with Wisconsin, but I have to admit that the Bucks are a fun team to watch. I'm just glad that, after, what, almost 10 years of some combination of Warriors/Cavs/Heat/Lakers hegemony in the NBA Finals, we get to see some different teams rise up that haven't had success in years.


ACB: My wife is from Becker, Minnesota, and my in-laws still live there. Because of that, I'm a de facto Minnesota Vikings fan (I won't bring up the Timberwolves.). More importantly, I must hate the Green Bay Packers. I have no choice in these matters.:lol: Of course, I remember watching Fran Tarkenton and the Purple People Eaters defense under coach Bud Grant; great teams, but it was tough to break through in the glory days of the Steelers, Cowboys and Raiders.

As for the Suns-Bucks, it came down to a couple plays at the end. Chris Paul has been having a great year and playoffs, but the normally scrappy guard has looked out of it in the last couple games. I don't know if age has finally caught up with him, or if it's an injury, but they will need him at his best, otherwise Devin Booker will need to score 50+ points to get this series to a seventh game. I hope it does go 7 because the teams seem pretty equal to me and I've been enjoying the series. As you mentioned, this is the first Finals in over 10 years without Lebron, Kevin Durant, or Steph Curry. It will be nice to see a new team bringing the trophy home.


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## progmatist

SearsPoncho said:


> ACB: My wife is from Becker, Minnesota, and my in-laws still live there. Because of that, I'm a de facto Minnesota Vikings fan (I won't bring up the Timberwolves.). More importantly, I must hate the Green Bay Packers. I have no choice in these matters.:lol: Of course, I remember watching Fran Tarkenton and the Purple People Eaters defense under coach Bud Grant; great teams, but it was tough to break through in the glory days of the Steelers, Cowboys and Raiders.
> 
> As for the Suns-Bucks, it came down to a couple plays at the end. Chris Paul has been having a great year and playoffs, but the normally scrappy guard has looked out of it in the last couple games. I don't know if age has finally caught up with him, or if it's an injury, but they will need him at his best, otherwise Devin Booker will need to score 50+ points to get this series to a seventh game. I hope it does go 7 because the teams seem pretty equal to me and I've been enjoying the series. As you mentioned, this is the first Finals in over 10 years without Lebron, Kevin Durant, or Steph Curry. It will be nice to see a new team bringing the trophy home.


I stated in another forum Chris Paul must either have made a sizable bet on the Suns losing, or is being blackmailed by the mob. It may be heretical to say this in the Phoenix area, but I'm half hoping it doesn't go to a game 7. I can just see fans exuberant over a win, or angry over a loss flipping over one of the light rail trains which run right in front of the Suns' arena.


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## Bwv 1080

Is there a dumber rule than goaltending in any professional sport? Who cares if the ball is falling, let them block it


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## Phil loves classical

Bwv 1080 said:


> Is there a dumber rule than goaltending in any professional sport? Who cares if the ball is falling, let them block it


I dunno. If I was a 7'3" center I would just camp out near the basket, not worry about defense, and keep swatting away 3 pointers.


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## Bwv 1080

Phil loves classical said:


> I dunno. If I was a 7'3" center I would just camp out near the basket, not worry about defense, and keep swatting away 3 pointers.


I know, but its frustrating on marginal calls.


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## perempe

Rondo should be suspended for a game.


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## eljr

perempe said:


> Rondo should be suspended for a game.


You are harsh, IMHO.

It was the fan that touched him. Rondo should only be suspended if the league as a rule against speaking to fans and that is the sanction which I am pretty sure they do not.


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## eljr

Phil loves classical said:


> I dunno. If I was a 7'3" center I would just camp out near the basket, not worry about defense, and keep swatting away 3 pointers.


As a 3 is launched from 23.75 feet away or more, how would a center, at any height be able to swat away any away without the points being awarded whether on trajectory or not?


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## eljr

Bwv 1080 said:


> Is there a dumber rule than goaltending in any professional sport? Who cares if the ball is falling, let them block it


Me thinks you do not understand the game. 

If you want to really get rid of stupid rules in sports you will advocate for the elimination of the offsides rule in futbol.


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## Phil loves classical

Always been a fan of the Warriors. They are getting it done this year so far, and without K. Thompson.


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## eljr

Phil loves classical said:


> Always been a fan of the Warriors. They are getting it done this year so far, and without K. Thompson.


I am sooooooooooo disappointed in my Brooklyn Nets. They had a team for the ages last year which was health and injury decimated. Still, they came within an inch, literally, of beating Milwaukee. (do you know of the inch I speak of?)

This year, Kyrie has sidelined himself, Harden has been neutered by poor implementation of refer guidelines and even more importantly, they lost all their second team which was nothing short of spectacular. The replacements are barely serviceable.
Mills and Millsap vs. Green and Shamet? I think not. DeAndre Jordan not replaced at all. Dinwiddie vs Cam Johnson?

I am in deep lament.


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## Phil loves classical

Most frustrating about Ben Simmons. I think there is no way out of his alleged 'mental health' issues. Only way I see is to start playing to regain confidence. He is complaining or alleging that the Sixers' are forcing him to play? Is that so bad? I recall Barkley and Jordan saying the players now are soft. Well, seems pretty appropriate with Simmons.


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## perempe

Simmons -> BKN
Harden -> PHI


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## eljr

perempe said:


> Simmons -> BKN
> Harden -> PHI


This is Kyrie's doing. He has cost Brooklyn the NBA title this year with his selfish, spoiled, childlike behavior.

BTW, Nash is a horrible coach.

Nets would be better served to trade Kyrie than Harden. Frankly, I would like Kyrie, Harden and Nash all gone not just Harden.


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## Roger Knox

eljr said:


> Nets would be better served to trade Kyrie than Harden. Frankly, I would like Kyrie, Harden and Nash all gone not just Harden.


All that star power yet an average team. The idea that teams with most high-powered superstars will always win championships is strong in basketball. Maybe that is changing a bit and clubs with a team-based approach will be more successful.


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## eljr

Roger Knox said:


> All that star power yet an average team. The idea that teams with most high-powered superstars will always win championships is strong in basketball. Maybe that is changing a bit and clubs with a team-based approach will be more successful.


Average team? Not at all.

My guess is that you don't follow the NBA more than in passing.

Brooklyn's problems were injuries and illness and mandates. The team, as constructed last year, was problem the best basketball team ever put together in the leagues history.


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## progmatist

eljr said:


> BTW, Nash is a horrible coach.


Give him time. This is only his second year coaching in any capacity. As a player, he was average at best before improving to the Suns' franchise player.


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## science

eljr said:


> Average team? Not at all.
> 
> My guess is that you don't follow the NBA more than in passing.
> 
> Brooklyn's problems were injuries and illness and mandates. The team, as constructed last year, was problem the best basketball team ever put together in the leagues history.


I had doubts about how well the personalities would fit together. They just weren't built to overcome adversity. The Warriors, for example, have also suffered a lot of injuries over the past few years, but aside from KD wanting out they have held together as a team and continued to build around their core.


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## eljr

science said:


> I had doubts about how well the personalities would fit together. They just weren't built to overcome adversity. The Warriors, for example, have also suffered a lot of injuries over the past few years, but aside from KD wanting out they have held together as a team and continued to build around their core.


With all respect, they did pretty damned well. Last year they went to the west coast and beat Phoenix, Lakers, Golden State Utah Denver. Short handed. No Kyrie or KD. 
If not for both Harden and Kyrie injured at the same time they win the title. Without them them came within an inch of winning it. Are you aware? One inch.

I know people don't like Brooklyn and the internet is littered with posts like this about them but it is simply objectively false.

There is a level of adversity that no one can overcome. Not your Warriors not Brooklyn not Phoenix. Not the Lakers.

Again, when you are forced to start 3 or at time 4 rookies, have none or only one starter available, you become a G-league team.

The Nets held onto first without Kyrie or Harris. With no center at all.

Long story short, no team in the NBA wins with 4 starters and at times all 5 starters out. It doesn't happen.

They did overcome adversity, much adversity. They most certainly did. Way better than one would have anticipated.

Now, if you had said Kyrie is a cancer, we would have agreed.


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## science

eljr said:


> With all respect, they did pretty damned well. Last year they went to the west coast and beat Phoenix, Lakers, Golden State Utah Denver. Short handed. No Kyrie or KD.
> If not for both Harden and Kyrie injured at the same time they win the title. Without them them came within an inch of winning it. Are you aware? One inch.
> 
> I know people don't like Brooklyn and the internet is littered with posts like this about them but it is simply objectively false.
> 
> There is a level of adversity that no one can overcome. Not your Warriors not Brooklyn not Phoenix. Not the Lakers.
> 
> Again, when you are forced to start 3 or at time 4 rookies, have none or only one starter available, you become a G-league team.
> 
> The Nets held onto first without Kyrie or Harris. With no center at all.
> 
> Long story short, no team in the NBA wins with 4 starters and at times all 5 starters out. It doesn't happen.
> 
> They did overcome adversity, much adversity. They most certainly did. Way better than one would have anticipated.
> 
> Now, if you had said Kyrie is a cancer, we would have agreed.


Which year were they an inch away from the title? I don't even remember them in the finals.

Anyway, in the end it wasn't injuries that broke the team up. The stars just couldn't get along well enough to play together for multiple seasons. It's not just the Warriors who manage that. Phoenix is on their second year of it and looks to have no problems. The Cavs and the Heat did it. The Spurs did it for ages. Even Shaq and Kobe did it.

Maybe they actually are rebuilding pretty well already. I suspect they're better off without Harden, who doesn't seem like much of a fighter. If the Ben Simmons experience works out for them, they could make a serious run this year.


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## eljr

science said:


> Which year were they an inch away from the title? I don't even remember them in the finals.


This is what I suspected.



> Anyway, in the end it wasn't injuries that broke the team up. The stars just couldn't get along well enough to play together for multiple seasons.


No, it was one reason. Kyrie and the vaccine mandate.



> It's not just the Warriors who manage that. Phoenix is on their second year of it and looks to have no problems. The Cavs and the Heat did it. The Spurs did it for ages. Even Shaq and Kobe did it.


All these teams did what?



> Maybe they actually are rebuilding pretty well already. I suspect they're better off without Harden, who doesn't seem like much of a fighter. If the Ben Simmons experience works out for them, they could make a serious run this year.


Yes, the Nets will be better without Harden. His style of play was not optimal for a team that should be running like deer every minute. But he is a fighter and he is a quitter. And he is amazingly talented. He will flourish in Philly, at least this year.

If all come back from injury and if Kyrie finally grows up, they will be heavy favorites to win it all. I see little chance of this.

I though you a New Englander, why the horrid Golden State crush?

Did you see your boy Curry take one million shots to go after another headline at the All-Star game? Honest, that was an awful spectacle. Same with James. These guys talent is far exceeded by their egos.


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## science

eljr said:


> All these teams did what?


Kept superstars together for multiple years.



eljr said:


> I though you a New Englander


No, I only went to college there. I'm half cowboy (Wyoming ranch), half hillbilly (West Virginia holler), one hunnerd percent trailer park trash.


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## eljr

science said:


> Kept superstars together for multiple years.
> 
> No, I only went to college there. I'm half cowboy (Wyoming ranch), half hillbilly (West Virginia holler), one hunnerd percent trailer park trash.


Have you seen Harden since the trade? It's only a couple games but I told you, he is as good as ever. He was simply throwing game in Brooklyn.

It's only a couple games but no one in the league is playing better than is Harden.

*I told you so*.


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## science

eljr said:


> *I told you so*.


Have I been *pwned*?


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## perempe

The Lakers' retro roster (Dwight, Ariza) won't work out well.


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## SearsPoncho

Heat are looking very good in the East. Consistent, regardless of the lineup. I'm not sure Butler, Adebayo, Lowry and Herro have even played many minutes together this year. I guess the Harden trade to Philly is the wild card. I would have guessed a Heat-Bucks Eastern Conf. Finals before the trade. I don't know what to expect now. Bulls have also been a major surprise.


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## eljr

SearsPoncho said:


> Heat are looking very good in the East. Consistent, regardless of the lineup. I'm not sure Butler, Adebayo, Lowry and Herro have even played many minutes together this year. I guess the Harden trade to Philly is the wild card. I would have guessed a Heat-Bucks Eastern Conf. Finals before the trade. I don't know what to expect now. Bulls have also been a major surprise.


The East has far too many variables, chief of which is, will all the Net's be healthy?

As to Philly, how are they a wild card? They are the most likely to win the east.

If all the Nets are healthy, you will see an East final of Philly /Brooklyn.

Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Miami and even Milwaukee are simply not on that level.

If the Nets are still without Harris, Kyrie, Durant and or Simmons, then it will be Philly/Milwaukee.


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## eljr

science said:


> Have I been *pwned*?


In this regard, yes. LOL


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## Roger Knox

eljr said:


> If all the Nets are healthy, you will see an East final of Philly /Brooklyn.
> 
> Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Miami and even Milwaukee are simply not on that level.
> 
> If the Nets are still without Harris, Kyrie, Durant and or Simmons, then it will be Philly/Milwaukee.


With all due respect to the Nets, watching them without Durant, Simmons and Irving lose to the Raptors on the past two evenings, it seems that they'll need to have all three going well even to be competitive with the five teams you list. Last night was very close but even with Van Vleet and Annunoby out the Raptors still beat the Nets. The night before in Brooklyn, almost from the beginning the result was never in doubt.


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## eljr

Roger Knox said:


> With all due respect to the Nets, watching them without Durant, Simmons and Irving lose to the Raptors on the past two evenings, it seems that they'll need to have all three going well even to be competitive with the five teams you list. Last night was very close but even with Van Vleet and Annunoby out the Raptors still beat the Nets. The night before in Brooklyn, almost from the beginning the result was never in doubt.


Drummond was also out.

You must remember, the Nets reserves are playing against the starters of other teams. G-league guys (Nets subs) are playing against NBA players.

They had no starters available against Toronto and came within 1 on the road.

What I fear, as a Net fan, is how Nash utilizes who if all get healthy.

That is another glaring issue for the Nets without it's starters, it has ZERO point guards.

If you have Aldridge, Griffin, Curry, Mills and Brown off the bench, that is very strong. Who has a better bench? You still have Claxton and Thomas behind them.

All that said, I expect the Nets to maybe win the playin game and the East to be between Philly and Milwaukee. Harden and Emiid are the best two man combination in the league now. Better yet, they compliment each other. Harden, as great as he was with the Nets last year and he was, did not mesh when Kyrie and Durant.

Thanks for your reply. :tiphat:


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## Bulldog

I wouldn't count on Harden come playoff time - he tends to fall apart when most needed.


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## SearsPoncho

eljr said:


> The East has far too many variables, chief of which is, will all the Net's be healthy?
> 
> As to Philly, how are they a wild card? They are the most likely to win the east.
> 
> If all the Nets are healthy, you will see an East final of Philly /Brooklyn.
> 
> Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Miami and even Milwaukee are simply not on that level.
> 
> If the Nets are still without Harris, Kyrie, Durant and or Simmons, then it will be Philly/Milwaukee.


Hi eljr! What did I mean by "wild card"? I just meant there have been changes made and a new element introduced to the team. I haven't had much of a chance to see Philly since the trade and am interested to see how the "new" players perform and affect team chemistry. Believe me, I wouldn't mind seeing Philly win. I grew up near Philly and was at Game 1 of the '83 Finals, which resulted in Dr. J and Moses' Sixers sweeping the seemingly unstoppable Showtime Lakers.


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## Roger Knox

Watching Toronto Raptors this season is a pleasure when rookie forward Scottie Barnes is playing. Neither an in-the-paint dominator nor a three-point specialist, he gets the job done as scorer, defender, or playmaker by being mentally sharp. Exceptionally good at footwork and faking, at snagging rebounds or miraculously finding the open guy for an assist, he demonstrated all of these abilities in tonight's victory over the Spurs. He plays with joy and generates unlikely baskets so you get drawn in to following him. One of this year's three top prospects for NBA Rookie of the Year.


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## eljr

Bulldog said:


> I wouldn't count on Harden come playoff time - he tends to fall apart when most needed.


Last night was amazing. The Net's, without Simmons and Aldridge, totally dismantled Philly. 
So much so, the starters were taken out in the 3rd, by both teams!


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## Triplets

Roger Knox said:


> Watching Toronto Raptors this season is a pleasure when rookie forward Scottie Barnes is playing. Neither an in-the-paint dominator nor a three-point specialist, he gets the job done as scorer, defender, or playmaker by being mentally sharp. Exceptionally good at footwork and faking, at snagging rebounds or miraculously finding the open guy for an assist, he demonstrated all of these abilities in tonight's victory over the Spurs. He plays with joy and generates unlikely baskets so you get drawn in to following him. One of this year's three top prospects for NBA Rookie of the Year.


Barnes is the real deal. It seemed like a stretch when he was drafted ahead of Jalen Suggs, but the Raptors knew what they were doing


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## ando

Bulldog said:


> I wouldn't count on Harden come playoff time - he tends to fall apart when most needed.


Indeed. The 6ers-Nets matchup the other night was a prime example. Bizarre.


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## perempe

JV might be my favourite player. He is not an all-star, but very consistent. He scored 32 against the Rockets tonight.


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## eljr

perempe said:


> JV might be my favourite player. He is not an all-star, but very consistent. He scored 32 against the Rockets tonight.


He went 12 of 18 with 10 rebounds.... not too shabby.


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## Roger Knox

perempe said:


> JV might be my favourite player. He is not an all-star, but very consistent. He scored 32 against the Rockets tonight.


It seems that quality centres have come back in style. Toronto Raptors traded him during their NBA championship season and then didn't vote him a share. They got Marc Gasol who defended and distributed the ball well that year. But I'm glad to see JV do well elsewhere.


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## Roger Knox

Yesterday the Philadelphia 76ers ended the Toronto Raptors' 2021-22 playoff season with a first-round 132-97 victory. The series' 4-2 result was about what Raptors should have expected, though some commentators had raised expectations higher. But once Harden decided he actually could shoot; Embiid that he should lead but on the court; and Doc Rivers that he was really the coach -- and all in the same game! -- it was Philly's game. Where do we go from here in the NBA championship? Is it Phoenix Suns' year?


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## 4chamberedklavier

Roger Knox said:


> Yesterday the Philadelphia 76ers ended the Toronto Raptors' 2021-22 playoff season with a first-round 132-97 victory. The series' 4-2 result was about what Raptors should have expected, though some commentators had raised expectations higher. But once Harden decided he actually could shoot; Embiid that he should lead but on the court; and Doc Rivers that he was really the coach -- and all in the same game! -- it was Philly's game. Where do we go from here in the NBA championship? Is it Phoenix Suns' year?


I'm predicting a Golden State and Boston finals. Just a gut feeling


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## Roger Knox

4chamberedklavier said:


> I'm predicting a Golden State and Boston finals. Just a gut feeling


Thar would be an exciting final.


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## SearsPoncho

So, the Miami Heat are the first team into the conference finals. Not sure what's going on with James Harden. Was he injured? Bucks v. Celtics has been the most enjoyable, competitive series, in my opinion. I thought they would need Khris Middleton to get past Boston, but they're up 3-2.


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## Ludwig Schon

Pleased to see the Celtics take it to a Game 7. Tatum & Brown can’t make up for dross like Horford & Theis, forever though.

Why on earth did we re-sign these bums?


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## Bulldog

Ludwig Schon said:


> Pleased to see the Celtics take it to a Game 7. Tatum & Brown can’t make up for dross like Horford & Theis, forever though.
> 
> Why on earth did we re-sign these bums?


Horford is no bum. If not for him, the Celtics would already be gone from the playoffs.


----------



## Johnnie Burgess

Bucks and Suns both had bad game 7's.


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## Ludwig Schon

Hopefully we can smash the homophobic, Floridian trailer-trash, and send them back to the cracker riviera with their alligator tails firmly between their webbed feet…


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## progmatist

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Bucks and Suns both had bad game 7's.


My theory as to why: last season had a delayed start and finish, while this season started on time. The Suns and Bucks had all of about a month rest, before turning around and doing it all over again. Both teams were simply exhausted.


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## perempe

Better teams advance.


----------



## Bulldog

I'm tired of Golden State, so I hope that Dallas becomes the first team to win a playoff series after being down 3 to 0.


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## Ludwig Schon

So pleased to be proved wrong. Al Horford really reeled back the years yesterday. Tatum and Brown were amazing in the 4th Q.


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## 4chamberedklavier

4chamberedklavier said:


> I'm predicting a Golden State and Boston finals. Just a gut feeling


Feel free to ask me for lottery numbers


----------



## Ludwig Schon

Tatum and Brown really need to prove they’re generationally great in the finals this week. Can’t rely on Smart, Williams and White like they did last night to win the NBA


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## SearsPoncho

Golden State v. Boston begins tonight. This is one of the most intriguing Finals matchups in years. Both are talented teams and I really have no idea which way this series could play out. I'm hoping both play at their best and we get some of the most entertaining, beautiful basketball without any injuries. Who ya got?


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## Ludwig Schon

Tatum & Brown are gonna be the new Jordan & Pippen… starting tonight!!!


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## SearsPoncho

4chamberedklavier said:


> I'm predicting a Golden State and Boston finals. Just a gut feeling


What are the winning lottery numbers?


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## Bwv 1080

So far, the 20-somethings have dominated, seems a generational turnover with all the playoff greats of the last decade out of the picture - GS being the only exception, sort the last stand of old guys with all their key players in their 30s


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## Ludwig Schon

Ludwig Schon said:


> Tatum & Brown are gonna be the new Jordan & Pippen… starting tonight!!!


I’ll take Paul Pierce and Ray Allen at this stage.

Just do it for Malcolm X, Tip O’Neill, Donna Summer, JFK and Edgar Allen Poe!


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## progmatist

SearsPoncho said:


> What are the winning lottery numbers?


You already won the lottery. You just have to pay $25K to claim your prize.


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