# Mid 17th Century - A Relative Dark Age in Music?



## David C Coleman (Nov 23, 2007)

Can anybody recommend any composers from say from 1640-75? I always think this is not a well represented era in music. 
There doesn't seem to be a plethora of top composers say between the death of Monteverdi in 1643 and the rise of Lully in France and Purcell in England later in the century, so I don't really know what the musical style was like during this era.
Any suggestions Please??....


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Interesting. The only composer from my collection that may fall in this period is Jacob van Eyck. I can't say that his style is significantly different from baroque composers immediately before and after. It just sounds baroque to me. For some reason, only with music from about 1700 onward can I start to tell a difference in composers and nationalities. If I were more familar, perhaps I could with the slightly earlier baroque as well.

The only other composers I know of that even come close to your period are Giles Farnaby before and Georg Muffat a little after. I love Farnaby's all too short _A Toye_.


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## Mr Dull (Mar 14, 2009)

Whilst I don't know much about this period you should try William Lawes. For French music MarinMarais and his teacher St Colombe. I have some of their music and enjoy it. On a larger Historical note the period you selected covers the start of Lois XIV's reign in France so their will be a lot of music from the French court I am sure. In Britain it is the period of the civil war and interregnum so there was little organised music.


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## Artemis (Dec 8, 2007)

David C Coleman said:


> Can anybody recommend any composers from say from 1640-75? I always think this is not a well represented era in music.
> There doesn't seem to be a plethora of top composers say between the death of Monteverdi in 1643 and the rise of Lully in France and Purcell in England later in the century, so I don't really know what the musical style was like during this era.
> Any suggestions Please??....


I found this useful list of Baroque Composers on Wikipedia.

The period you quote, 1640-1675, would indeed seem to be rather lean in terms of quality composers. Looking at this list it would seem that the main contenders are Heinrich Schütz, Samuel Scheidt, and Johann Froberger

The only one of these I know anything about, and would guess is perhaps the best among these three, is Samuel Scheidt. He wrote a lot of organ music and although I do not have any of his works I do recall that he features occasionally on the BBC's Radio 3 morning programmes. In fact it often makes me laugh when the BBC presenters so deliberately say "..._ and now for a piece by Samuel Scheidt_", as they try their best to avoid making what could so easily be an embarrasing faux pas by using a less tactful re-organisation of the words.

You may find him well worth checking out. If you look on the ArkivMusik.com site you will find a list of his works and recordings, which seems quite extensive. If you do so perhaps you could let is know what you think, as tactfully as possible, I trust, if you do not happen to be all that impressed.


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## David C Coleman (Nov 23, 2007)

Thank you everybody for your suggestions!. I've also discovered an English composer called Matthew Locke who was alive, smack bang on the era I am looking at. So I will explore a little further...


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

*Buxtehude* (north german - danish) - 




*Nicola Matteis* (an Italian in London) - 




*Schmelzer* (Austrian) - 




*Biber* (Bohemian-Austrian) - 




*Biber's Battle* (i like the dissonance of drunken soldiers imitated by the violins and the Musketeers march & gunshots of the battle !!!) - 




*de Sainte-Colombe* (French) - 




*Westhoff* - 




*Walther* -


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Cavalli
And Lully was already active in this period
John Blow


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## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Perspective*

Just to add perspective here are some dates and composers.....

[edit] Middle Baroque era composers (born 1600-1650)
Composers of the Middle Baroque era include the following figures listed by the date of their birth:

Mlle Bocquet (early 17th century-after 1660) 
Alessandro Poglietti (early 17th century-1683) 
Martino Pesenti (c. 1600-c. 1648) 
Marcin Mielczewski (c. 1600-1651) 
Manuel Correia (c. 1600-1653) 
Simon Ives (1600-1662) 
John O'Keover (c. 1600-c. 1663) 
Giovanni Battista Fasolo (c. 1600-1664) 
Étienne Moulinié (1600-after 1669) 
Nicolaus à Kempis‎ (c. 1600-1676) 
Jacques Champion de Chambonnières (1601 or 1602-1672) 
Girolamo Fantini (b. c. 1600/1602; fl. 1638) 
William Lawes (1602-1645) 
Christopher Simpson (c. 1602/1606-1669) 
Pietro Francesco Cavalli (1602-1676) 
Chiara Margarita Cozzolani (1602-c. 1678) 
Caspar Kittel (1603-1639) 
John IV of Portugal (1603-1656) 
Denis Gaultier (1603-1672) 
Marco Uccellini (1603/1610-1680) 
Francesco Foggia (1603-1688) 
François Du Fault (1604-1670) 
Francesca Campana (b. c. 1605/1610-1665) 
Charles d'Assoucy (1605-1670) 
Orazio Benevoli (1605-1672) 
Giacomo Carissimi (1605-1674) 
Philipp Friedrich Boddecker (1607-1683) 
Joao Lourenco Rebelo (1610-1661) 
Nicolas Hotman (c. 1610-1663) 
Nicolas Métru (1610-after 1663) 
Leonora Duarte (1610-1678) 
Luigi Battiferri (1610-1682) 
Henri Du Mont (1610-1684) 
Michel Lambert (1610-1696) 
Leonora Baroni (1611-1670) 
Andreas Hammerschmidt (1611 or 1612-1675) 
Pablo Bruna (1611-1679) 
Sophie Elisabeth, Duchess of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1613-1676) 
Louis de Mollier (c. 1613-1688) 
Franz Tunder (1614-1667) 
Marc'Antonio Pasqualini (1614-1691) 
Francisco Lopez Capillas (c. 1615-1673) 
Carlo Caproli (c. 1615-c. 1692) 
Angiolo Michele Bartolotti (c. 1615-1696) 
Johann Jakob Froberger (1616-1667) 
Matthias Weckmann (c. 1616-1674) 
Joan Cererols (1618-1680) 
José Marín (1618-1699) 
Anthoni van Noordt (c. 1619-1675) 
Barbara Strozzi (1619-1677) 
Juan García de Zéspedes (c. 1619-1678) 
Johann Rosenmüller (1619-1684) 
Jan Křtitel Tolar (c. 1620-1673) 
Johann Heinrich Schmelzer (c. 1620-1680) 
Francisco Martins (1620-1680) 
Adam Drese (c. 1620-1701) 
Isabella Leonarda (1620-1704) 
Matthew Locke (c. 1621-1677) 
Jean Lacquemant (c. 1622-1680) 
Gaspar de Verlit (1622-1682) 
Antonio Cesti (1623-1669) 
Dietrich Becker (c. 1623-c. 1679) 
Jan Adam Reincken (1623-1722) 
François Roberday (1624-1680) 
Jacques Gallot (c. 1625-1696) 
Louis Couperin (c. 1626-1661) 
Wolfgang Carl Briegel (1626-1712) 
Charles Mouton (1626-1710) 
Johann Caspar Kerll (1627-1693) 
Nicolas Gigault (c. 1627-1707) 
Robert Cambert (c. 1628-1677) 
Paul Hainlein (1628-1686) 
Gustav Düben (1628-1690) 
Christoph Bernhard (1628-1692) 
Lelio Colista (1629-1680) 
Andreas Hofer (1629-1684) 
Johann Michael Nicolai (1629-1685) 
Jean-Henri d'Anglebert (1629-1691) 
Lady Mary Dering (1629-1704) 
Filipe da Madre de Deus (c. 1630-c. 1688 or later) 
Nicolas Lebègue (1631-1702) 
Sebastian Anton Scherer (1631-1712) 
Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687) 
Guillaume-Gabriel Nivers (1632-1714) 
Pavel Josef Vejvanovský (c. 1633/1639-1693) 
Adam Krieger (1634-1666) 
Andres de Sola (1634-1696) 
Pietro Simone Agostini (c. 1635-1680) 
Johann Wilhelm Furchheim (c. 1635-1682) 
Jacek Różycki (c. 1635-1704) 
Joannes Florentius a Kempis (1635-after 1711) 
Paul Esterházy (1635-1713) 
Esaias Reusner (1636-1679) 
Dieterich Buxtehude (c. 1637-1707) 
Bernardo Storace (1637-1707) 
Bernardo Pasquini (1637-1710) 
Diogo Dias Melgás (1638-1700) 
Alessandro Stradella (1639-1682) 
Johann Christoph Pezel (1639-1694) 
António Marques Lésbio (1639-1709) 
Amalia Catharina (1640-1697) 
Monsieur de Sainte-Colombe (c. 1640-c. 1700) 
Carolus Hacquart (c. 1640-1701?) 
Pedro de Araújo (1640-1705) 
Giovanni Battista Draghi (c. 1640-1708) 
Gaspar Sanz (1640-1710) 
Paolo Lorenzani (1640-1713) 
André Raison (1640s-1719) 
Antonia Bembo (c. 1640-1720) 
Esther Elizabeth Velkiers (b. 1640) 
Johann Christoph Bach (1642-1703) 
Marc-Antoine Charpentier (1643-1704) 
Johann Anton Losy van Losymthal (c. 1643-1721) 
Maria Cattarina Calegari (1644-1675) 
Ignazio Albertini (1644-1685) 
Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber (1644-1704) 
Joan Baptista Cabanilles (1644-1712) 
Johann Samuel Drese (c. 1644-1716) 
Johann Georg Conradi (1645-1699) 
August Kühnel (1645-c. 1700) 
Christian Ritter (c. 1645-c. 1725) 
Juan de Araujo (1646-1712) 
Rupert Ignaz Mayr (1646-1712) 
René Pignon Descoteaux (c. 1646-1728) 
Giovanni Maria Capelli (1648-1726) 
John Blow (1649-1708) 
Pascal Collasse (1649-1709) 
Francisco Guerau (1649-1717/1722) 
Johann Philipp Krieger (1649-1725) 
Giovanno Battista Riccio (fl. 1609-1621) 
Nicolo Borboni (fl. 1614-1641) 
Alba Trissina (fl. 1622) 
Bartholomäus Aich (fl. 1648) 
Bernardo Clavijo del Castillo (fl. c. 1650-c. 1700) 
Bernardo Gianoncelli (fl. c. 1650) 
Gervise Gerrard (16??-16??) 
Bartłomiej Pękiel (d. c. 1670) 
Friedrich Klingenberg (d. 1720)

[edit] Late Baroque era composers (born 1650-1700)
Composers of the Late Baroque era include the following figures listed by the date of their birth:

Petronio Franceschini (c. 1650-c. 1680) 
Cataldo Amodei (c. 1650-c. 1695) 
Christian Geist (c. 1650-1711) 
Antonio de Salazar (c. 1650-1715) 
Giovanni Battista Bassani (c. 1650-1716) 
Johann Jacob Walther (1650-1717) 
Stanisław Sylwester Szarzyński (c. 1650-c. 1720) 
Robert de Visee (c. 1650-c. 1725) 
Pietro Torri (1650-1737) 
Domenico Gabrielli (1651/1659-1690) 
Johann Krieger (1651-1735) 
Georg Muffat (1653-1704) 
Johann Pachelbel (1653-1706) 
Arcangelo Corelli (1653-1713) 
Carlo Francesco Pollarolo (c. 1653-1723) 
John Abell (1653-after 1724) 
Pablo Nassarre (1654-1730) 
Vincent Lübeck (1654-1740) 
Sébastien de Brossard (1655-1730) 
Johann Paul von Westhoff (1656-1705) 
Marin Marais (1656-1728) 
Georg Reutter (1656-1738) 
Johann Caspar Ferdinand Fischer (1656-1746) 
Philipp Heinrich Erlebach (1657-1714) 
Michel-Richard de Lalande (1657-1726) 
Gaetano Greco (c. 1657-c. 1728) 
Giuseppe Torelli (1658-1709) 
Maria Francesca Nascinbeni (born 1658; fl. 1674) 
Henry Purcell (1659?-1695) 
Francesco Antonio Pistocchi (1659-1726) 
Antonio Veracini (1659-1745) 
Damian Stachowicz (c. 1660 - 1699) 
Sybrant Van Noordt, Jr. (1660-1705) 
Gaspard Le Roux (c. 1660-1707) 
Ignazio Pollice (Pulici) (fl. 1684-1705) 
Rosa Giacinta Badalla (1660-1710) 
Johann Schenck (1660-c. 1712) 
Sebastian Duron (1660-1716) 
Christian Friedrich Witt (c. 1660-1716) 
Sainte-Colombe the younger (c. 1660-c. 1720) 
Johann Kuhnau (1660-1722) 
Alessandro Scarlatti (1660-1725) 
Gottfried Finger (1660-1730) 
Johann Joseph Fux (1660-1741) 
André Campra (1660-1744) 
Francesco Gasparini (1661-1727) 
Georg Böhm (1661-1733) 
Giacomo Antonio Perti (1661-1756) 
Angiola Teresa Moratori Scanabecchi (1662-1708) 
Friedrich Wilhelm Zachau (1663-1712) 
Pirro Capacelli Albergati (1663-1735) 
Nicolas Siret (1663-1754) 
Daniel Purcell (1664-1717) 
Johann Speth (1664-after 1719) 
Louis Lully (sometimes de Lully) (1664-1734) 
Nicolaus Bruhns (1665-1697) 
Johann Nicolaus Hanff (1665-1711) 
Élisabeth Jacquet de La Guerre (1665-1729) 
Jean-Baptiste Lully (sometimes de Lully) (the younger) (1665-1743) 
Francesc Valls (1665-1747) 
Domenico Zanatta (c. 1665-1748) 
Johann Heinrich Buttstedt (1666-1727) 
Attilio Ariosti (1666-1729) 
Jean-Féry Rebel (1666-1747) 
Bernardo Tonini (c. 1666-after 1727) 
Jean-Louis Lully (sometimes de Lully) (1667-1688) 
Michel Pignolet de Montéclair (1667-1737) 
Grzegorz Gerwazy Gorczycki (c. 1665/1667-1734) 
Antonio Lotti (c. 1667-1740) 
Giorgio Gentili (c. 1668-after 1731) 
François Couperin (1668-1733) 
Georg von Bertouch (1668-1743) 
Louis Marchand (1669-1732) 
Alessandro Marcello (1669-1747) 
Andreas Armsdorff (1670-1699) 
Antonio Caldara (1670/1671-1736) 
Turlough Ó Carolan (1670-1738) 
Charles Dieupart (c. 1670-c. 1740) 
Giovanni Battista Bononcini (1670-1747) 
Richard Leveridge (1670-1758) 
Louis de Caix d'Hervelois (c. 1670-c. 1760) 
Gaspard Corrette (c. 1670-before 1733) 
Tomaso Albinoni (1671-1751) or (1674-1745) 
Antoine Forqueray (1671-1745) 
Nicolas de Grigny (1672-1703) 
Francesco Antonio Bonporti (1672-1749) 
Georg Caspar Schürmann (1672 or 1673-1751) 
Jeremiah Clarke (c. 1674-1707) 
Reinhard Keiser (1674-1739) 
Pierre Dumage (c. 1674-1751) 
Jacques-Martin Hotteterre (1674-1763) 
Evaristo Felice dall'Abaco (1675-1742) 
Michel de la Barre (c. 1675-1745) 
Francesco Venturini (c. 1675-1745) 
Johann Bernhard Bach (1676-1749) 
Louis-Nicolas Clérambault (1676-1749) 
Giacomo Facco (1676-1753) 
Johann Ludwig Bach (1677-1731) 
Johann Wilhelm Drese (1677-1745) 
Antonio Vivaldi (1678-1741) 
Ferdinando Antonio Lazzari (1678-1754) 
Manuel de Zumaya (c. 1678-1755) 
Jan Dismas Zelenka (1679-1745) 
Pietro Filippo Scarlatti (1679-1750) 
Jean-Baptiste Loeillet (of London) (1680-1730) 
Giuseppe Fedeli aka Joseph Saggione (c. 1680-c. 1745) 
William Corbett (1680-1748) 
Françoise-Charlotte de Senneterre Ménétou (born 1680; fl. 1691) 
Giovanni Reali (c. 1681-after 1727) 
Johann Mattheson (1681-1764) 
Georg Philipp Telemann (1681-1767) 
Giuseppe Valentini (1681-1753) 
Jean-François Dandrieu (c. 1682-1738) 
Jean-Joseph Mouret (1682-1738) 
Giovanni Francesco di Caspará (1682-1777) 
Johann David Heinichen (1683-1729) 
Jean-Philippe Rameau (1683-1764) 
Johann Gottfried Walther (1684-1748) 
François d'Agincourt (1684-1758) 
Peter Ludwig Biermann (also Pietro Ludovico Bermagno) (1684-1776) 
Lodovico Giustini (1685-1743) 
Jacques Loeillet (1685-1748) 
Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) 
Giuseppi Matteo Alberti (1685-1751) 
Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757) 
George Frideric Handel (1685-1759) 
William Hieronymous Pachelbel (c. 1685-1764) 
Louis-Antoine Dornel (c. 1685-1765) 
Benedetto Marcello (1686-1739) 
Nicola Porpora (1686-1768) 
Sylvius Leopold Weiss (1687-1750) 
Johann Georg Pisendel (1687-1755) 
Francesco Geminiani (1687-1762) 
Jean-Baptiste Loeillet de Ghent (or 'of Ghent') (1688-1720) 
Fortunato Chelleri (1688-1757) 
Johann Friedrich Fasch (1688-1758) 
Jacques Aubert (1689-1753) 
Joseph Bodin de Boismortier (1689-1755) 
Pietro Gnocchi (1689-1775) 
Pietro Baldassare (before 1690-after 1768) 
Robert Woodcock (1690-1728) 
Gottfried Heinrich Stölzel (1690-1749) 
Charles Theodore Pachelbel (1690-1750) 
Jacques-Christophe Naudot (c. 1690-1762) 
Pierre-Gabriel Buffardin (1690-1768) 
Francesco Maria Veracini (1690-1768) 
Gottlieb Muffat (1690-1770) 
Francesco Barsanti (1690-1772) 
Jan Francisci (1691-1758) 
Unico Wilhelm van Wassenaer (1692-1766) 
Giuseppe Tartini (1692-1770) 
Johan Helmich Roman (1694-1758) 
Louis-Claude Daquin (1694-1772) 
Giuseppe Sammartini (1695-1750) 
Pietro Locatelli (1695-1764) 
Marie-Anne-Catherine Quinault (1695-1791) 
Maurice Greene (1696-1755) 
Andrea Zani (1696-1757) 
Pierre Février (1696-1760) 
Konrad Friedrich Hurlebusch (1696-1765) 
Johann Melchior Molter (1696-1765) 
Jean-Marie Leclair (1697-1764) 
Adam Falckenhagen (1697-1754) 
Johann Joachim Quantz (1697-1773) 
Cornelius Heinrich Dretzel (1697-1775) 
Riccardo Broschi (c. 1698-1756) 
François Francoeur (1698-1787) 
Johann Adolph Hasse (1699-1783) 
Joseph Gibbs (1699-1788) 
Marieta Morosina Priuli (fl. 1665) 
Sieur de Machy (d. after 1692) 
John Baston (fl. c. 1700) 
Cesare Bendinelli (fl. c. 1700) 
Michielina Della Pietà (fl. c. 1701-1744) 
Camilla de Rossi (fl. 1707-1710) 
Julie Pinel (fl. 1710-1737) 
Nicola Matteis (d. 1714) 
Mrs Philarmonica (fl. 1715) 
Pieter Bustijn (d. 1729) 
Gottfried Lindemann (d. 1741) 
Benoit Guillemant (fl. 1746-1757) 
Charles Dollé (d. after 1755)


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Artemis said:


> The only one of these I know anything about, and would guess is perhaps the best among these three, is Samuel Scheidt. He wrote a lot of organ music and although I do not have any of his works I do recall that he features occasionally on the BBC's Radio 3 morning programmes. In fact it often makes me laugh when the BBC presenters so deliberately say "..._ and now for a piece by Samuel Scheidt_", as they try their best to avoid making what could so easily be an embarrasing faux pas by using a less tactful re-organisation of the words.


Although I'm American, I also find the name Samuel Scheidt pretty funny. (We never pronounce the s-word like this composer's last name in the states.) Anyway, I remember hearing one of our local announcers say something to the effect of "And now for some music by Baroque composer Samuel Scheidt..." and my ears perked up. It never occured to me that he could be German...it very well could have been and English composer with a very unfortunate name.


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## bdelykleon (May 21, 2009)

This is a curious question, I think it is not the case to mention Biber, Buxtehude, Lully and Charpentier, because they were born arround 1640 and the case is about music composed from that time on. In my cd collection there are three great composers: Schütz, Louis Couperin and Cavalli, they are great composers but their work have a strage character, good, but for me at least they lack something, they sound too experimental, too unsure, too tentative. To me, the mid-baroque is an era of shaping of traditions and forms, much like will the era arround 1740 and 1770, and this may have an effect on the musical quality of that era. All compositions by the mentioned composers are in a certain mid way between the forms of the late-Renaissence, early-baroque and the late Baroque we all know, Cavalli's example is interesting because his operas are not quite in the declamatory way of Monteverdi, they clearly have arias and numbers, but all these numbers are in a tentative way, as if they were trying to find the better expression. The same can be said about Schütz, who makes the transition between Monteverdi's Catholic music writing and the Luteran cantatas of Bach and Telemann and Couperin prefiguring the keyboard works of the French masters.


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

There's a good Cavalli opera on DVD by René Jacobs... La Calisto


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

bdelykleon said:


> This is a curious question, I think it is not the case to mention Biber, Buxtehude, Lully and Charpentier, because they were born arround 1640 and the case is about music composed from that time on.


You're right... my bad


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## periodinstrumentfan (Sep 11, 2008)

But isn't this mid-Baroque period the flowering of the Improvisatory Style called Stylus Luxurian Theatralis aka Stylus Phantasticus ? 

I think this period overlaps from the time the first violin sonatas were published by Italians in the early 1600s like Cima, *Pandolfi* 



 , Fontana and Castello to the time of Bach ? ... :-.

The 1st notes of the basso continuo and melody of Pandolfi's (1567 - 1636) sonata at 1:56 are so similar to Schmelzer's (c. 1620 - 1680) Sonata IV 



 as is the case with Biber's improvisatory pieces that it's so hard not to think them and their styles related and forget the relative dates when they were born and the dates of their output... :->

...anyway i'm just a novice at this thing...ahaha...


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