# Underrated Classical era composer ? (Spohr,Boccherrini,Pleyel ...)



## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Hey guys, I am more into classical era and I am digging up these composers who I think not much exposed. So what do you think of these composers :

*Louis Spohr*, at least I heard his Clarinet Concertos in youtube but not much can find his record.

*Boccherrini*, have some of his fragmented STring quartet, thinks he famous of his Quintet for Guitar.

*Pleyel*, only get String Quartet

and how about Gyrowetz and Hummel also ?

thanks.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

Carl Maria von Weber may not be underrated but he is quite often forgotten despite having been fundamental along with Beethoven in building the foundaton of the Romantic era. His only crime seems to have been to orchistrate a bit low resulting in a slightly muddy sound compared to Beethoven. His output is quite prolific and full of specialist works like the Bassoon concerto (probably the best of the period) and the Clarinet concerto (likewise except for Mozart's). His symphonic works are a joy to play and his Opera 'The Sharpshooter' (Der FreiSchutz) is not played enough (allthough the overture is!).


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## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

I'd list Sphor under early Romantics.

Some lesser-known Classical composers whose music I have heard a little and liked: Vanhal and *Kozeluch*. There's also Salieri, but I haven't heard much beyond a piano concerto.


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## ErFurtwanglert (Nov 24, 2008)

Dittersdorf! His double bass concertos are sublime.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

ErFurtwanglert said:


> Dittersdorf! His double bass concertos are sublime.


Yes, I like Dittersdorf too. I don't know his double bass concertos but I like his oratorium *Giob* and his *6 Symphonies after Ovid's Metamorphoses* are very entertaining as well.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

ErFurtwanglert said:


> Dittersdorf! His double bass concertos are sublime.


That is until you have to play one in an audition!


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I read about Carl Maria von Weber often but so far I can't remember owned any of his stuffs. I also like to heard Vanhal . But the rest of the name I even never heard (Dittersdorf,Kozeluch,)

how about a late Luigi Cherubini, was he underrated?


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

I have and love Spohr's Octer in E major on an old lp. The other side is an octet by the wonderfully named Marcel Poot!


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I listened to some Boccherrini symphonies today at work. Couldn't say which ones. They have opus numbers and are in some key or other. Yes - those.

I thought them a little more melodic than Haydn's symphonies, the strings having almost vocal singing phrasing. I found myself whistling the themes at the water cooler, probably much to the irritation of my coworkers.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

With the rise of CPO label and also a quartet such as Authentic SQ, these lesser known classical era composers hopefully will probably no longer underrated in the future time.

Please recommend another lesser known Classical era composers and their recording in this thread (all form of music welcome but an SQ will received you a LIKE!).......

The Authentic String Quartet line up so far I got:
*Nicolaus Zmeskall* Nikolaus Zmeskall (1759-1833) One of Beethoven's few close personal friends in Vienna, Zmeskall was an official in the Hungarian Chancellery









Friedrich Ernst Fesca (1789-1826) was born in the German town of Magdeburg.









and my favorite
Johann Georg Albrechtsberger (3 February 1736 - 7 March 1809) was an Austrian musician who was born at Klosterneuburg, near Vienna.









Federigo Fiorillo
(b Brunswick, 1 June 1755; d after 1823). Italian Composer. He toured as a violinist and mandolin player and in 1782-4 was conductor at Riga.









Friedrich Robert Volkmann (6 April 1815 - 30 October 1883) was a German composer.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Excellent thread. I missed it completely. Yep. Come up with more "fringe composers" (who at least wrote tonal music ) . 

Louis Spohr was no "fringe". A contemporary of Beethoven, he wrote over 30 SQuartets, Quintets, over 10 violin converti, symphonies etc.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Boccherini and Pleyel perhaps have move on from the list of "underrated"/"fringe".


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## hespdelk (Mar 19, 2011)

Such a rich period.. while the big names are justified in their fame, there is so much more.

I'd cast another vote for Dittersdorf - very satisfying music.

For Cherubini as well - his large scale sacred works are deep works. Muti has been a champion of these, having recorded most of them. This particular work has had my attention lately:










So redolent of Beethoven in some ways.. but then again Cherubini has always struck me as being stylistically akin to Beethoven to a greater degree than any of their other contemporaries.

Also important in his output are his cycle of six string quartets from late in his career - I'd say they are one of the most important cycles from the first quarter of the 19th century coming behind those of Beethoven and Schubert.

And of course the operas that first made him famous are hardly to be neglected.. but I'm going to refrain from writing a dissertation on Cherubini.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Hummel and Ries. I have heard a lot of them lately, and liked it all.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Cherubini, love all his sq, in fact I really favorite them.
Hummel, three SQ and one naxos cd of Basson concerto, the opening really sound like Mozart though (on the concerto)
Ries, got his SQ by the Schuppanzigh SQ on CPO label.

I also like to mention VANHAL and VIOTTI, for their Violin Concerto repertoire.
Another sleeping giant are ONSLOW and BAZZINI, on more Romantic era composer.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I would mention Joseph Kraus, but around TC, he's getting pretty well known.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Excellent thread. I missed it completely. Yep. Come up with more "fringe composers" (who at least wrote tonal music ) .
> 
> Louis Spohr was no "fringe". A contemporary of Beethoven, he wrote over 30 SQuartets, Quintets, over 10 violin converti, symphonies etc.


Yes this is an excellent thread, and I think those of us that love 18th century music are very excited to see so much obscure music now being recorded.
Much of it of amazing quality, if any of it touches the greatness of Mozart is another matter but there is from time to time very inspired works that come to light.
For me Kozeluch Clarinet Concerto in E flat was a real find, if someone had told me it was a rediscovered concerto by Mozart I would "almost" believe them, it's that good!
To me Kozeluch seems to be quite a bit more inspired than the likes of Dittersdorf or Vanhal. 
I've since explored some of Kozeluch's symphonies and they are very inventive and powerful works.
A composer I'm very keen to explore more.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Art Rock said:


> Hummel and Ries. I have heard a lot of them lately, and liked it all.


Really? I have a box set of the Ries symphonies and to me they all sound like Beethoven on a bad day.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Try his piano concertos and chamber music.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I have several hours of Boccherini's music (cello concertos, including the one re-worked by Grutzmacher, string quintets, and guitar quintets) and I enjoy it a lot. 

I don't consider myself qualified to rate composers, but I'd find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't like his music.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Art Rock said:


> Try his piano concertos and chamber music.


Thanks for the tip.


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## jaimsilva (Jun 1, 2011)

João Domingos BOMTEMPO (Lisbon, 1775 - Lisbon, 1842)










His two symphonies, four piano concertos (beethovenian), Requiem, piano sonatas are the most representative works of this portuguese classical composer. (for more see 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo%C3%A3o_Domingos_Bomtempo

Some other underrated classical composers (some early classical, others late classical/pre romantic):

Karl Friedrich Abel - 1723 - 1787 (keyboard concertos, flute concertos, symphonies)
Luigi Cherubini - 1760 - 1842 (operas, masses, requiems)
Domenico Cimarosa - 1749 - 1801 (operas, keyboard concerto, flute concerto)
Muzio Clementi - 1752 - 1832 (piano sonatas, piano soncerto, symphonies)
Johann Baptist Cramer - 1771 - 1858 (piano concertos, piano sonatas)
Franz Danzi - 1763 - 1826 (flute concertos, bassoon concertos, symphonies)
Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf - 1739 - 1799 (concertos, symphonies)
Johann Ladislaus Dussek - 1760 - 1812 (piano sonatas, piano concertos)
John Field - 1782 - 1837 (piano concertos, piano sonatas, nocturnes for piano)
Pieter Hellendaal - 1721 - 1799 (symphonies)
Johann Nepomuk Hummel - 1778 - 1837 (concertos, chamber music)
Leopold Kozeluch - 1747 - 1818 (symphonies, piano concertos, chamber music, solo piano works)
Joseph Martin Kraus - 1756 - 1792 (symphonies)
Franz Krommer - 1759 - 1831 (concertos, chamber music)
Friederich Kuhlau - 1786 - 1832 (piano concerto, chamber music)
Josef Myslivecek - 1737 - 1781 (violin concertos, symphonies)
André George Onslow - 1784 - 1853 (string quartets, string quintets)
Giovanni Paisiello - 1740 - 1816 (operas, religious works, piano concertos)
Ignaz Pleyel - 1757 - 1831 (symphonies, concertos, string quartets)
Ferdinand Ries - 1784 - 1838 (piano concertos, symphonies, chamber music)
Antonio Salieri - 1750 - 1825 (operas, concertos)
Antonio Soler - 1729 - 1783 (keyboard sonatas)
Louis Spohr - 1784 - 1859 (concertos, symphonies, chamber music)
Carl Stamitz - 1745 - 1801 (concertos, symphonies)
Johann Baptist Vanhal - 1739 - 1813 (concertos, symphonies, chamber music)

[I don't think Boccherini is underrated ]


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

great list on that. On most of these less known composers, I usually read on the booklet that they are indeed WELL known on their lifetime (Onslow, Cherubini, Salieri etc.) and then diminished by name of Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven. It is then must be something about popularity rather than their music alone. And many refered by Beethoven as being 'great' (Onslow, Cherubini, Johann Georg Albrechtsberger (Beethoven's teacher)), now if Beethoven noted it that way, we the lowly peasant should take note on that well.

--

Anton Reicha (February 26, 1770 - May 28, 1836), is another name that I keeping eye on. Notable for many wind quintets (which I haven't own,yet)


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

presto said:


> For me Kozeluch Clarinet Concerto in E flat was a real find, if someone had told me it was a rediscovered concerto by Mozart I would "almost" believe them, it's that good!
> To me Kozeluch seems to be quite a bit more inspired than the likes of Dittersdorf or Vanhal.
> I've since explored some of Kozeluch's symphonies and they are very inventive and powerful works.
> A composer I'm very keen to explore more.


here a note :


> Kozeluch, Mozart's greatest rival in Vienna, published his only string quartets in 1790 and 1792, at a time when he was being described by the lexicographer Gerber as "the most loved among living composers." A study of these works offers much needed insights into this significant composer, the string quartet genre, and the fascinating decade that saw the musical shift from Classicism to Romanticism.


source.

EDIT: and great INFO on that source link included 'recent research' on many era of classical music.
https://www.areditions.com/rr/rrc.html


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

There are a lot of Czech 'fringe' composers: Suk, Martinu,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Czech_composers


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

presto said:


> Yes this is an excellent thread, and I think those of us that love 18th century music are very excited to see so much obscure music now being recorded.
> Much of it of amazing quality, if any of it touches the greatness of Mozart is another matter but there is from time to time very inspired works that come to light.
> For me Kozeluch Clarinet Concerto in E flat was a real find, if someone had told me it was a rediscovered concerto by Mozart I would "almost" believe them, it's that good!
> To me Kozeluch seems to be quite a bit more inspired than the likes of Dittersdorf or Vanhal.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion. I have been able to track down a CD of his clarinet concertos (Orfeo), they are excellent. At least on the level of Weber, Spohr and Crusell.


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## TresPicos (Mar 21, 2009)

The Mannheim composers are a bit underrated, in my opinion:
Johann Stamitz, Carl Stamitz, Christian Cannabich, F X Richter & friends


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

I have FX Richter , "Ricontro" SQ Op.5 disc. many say the date (1757) was prior to Haydn's Op.1 (1762), but the CD booklet itself stated year (1768). interesting.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

As long as more people praise Jesus or Hail Mary over Beethoven, he be underrated!


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## Nix (Feb 20, 2010)

Boccherini has some decent music, though I still have to listen to some more of him.

I'd recommend Muzio Clementi, who was probably the most eminent composer for piano in his day. His F# Minor piano sonata is chilling. And can be heard here:


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## Serge (Mar 25, 2010)

Only one that I can think of: Mozart. (Yeah Beethoven, I thought of him too... but I just don't consider him purely classical.)


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

My current list is numbered like so:

1)WF Bach
2)CPE Bach
3)Clementi
4)JCF Bach
5)Krauss
6)JC Bach
7)Johann Stamitz

I am on a clumsy iPhone so I can't be detailed, but I thought this would be an interesting thread to bump.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

One composers name from this period that has not come up is Gluck. He composed more than a few operas that are virtually as good or better than the operas of anyone else at the time except Mozart.


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

great bump!

One thing nice from exploring this era is the rich repertoire of flute/woodwind chamber music, eg flute quartet. I've been collecting some of them just to save my ear from the violin on certain day.

Johann Joachim Quantz (1697-1773), said to be Europe best flutist in his day. Composed around 300 flute concertos.

Anton Reicha (26 February 1770 – 28 May 1836), composed many woodwind + string quartet repertoire

François-Joseph Gossec (January 17, 1734 – February 16, 1829), six flute quartet Op.14


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

jurianbai said:


> Johann Joachim Quantz (1697-1773), said to be Europe best flutist in his day. Composed around 300 flute concertos.


He was one of the highest paid musicians in the whole of the 18th century, and a favourite of Federick the Great (who played the flute, hence 300 flute concertos). But he is better remembered today as the author of the invaluable text, _Versuch einer Anweisung die Flöte traversiere zu spielen_ (1752) (titled, On Playing the Flute).


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

jurianbai said:


> Johann Joachim Quantz (1697-1773), said to be Europe best flutist in his day. Composed around 300 flute concertos.


I remember reading that info about his vast output and thinking the works would probably be rather routine and uninspired. 
But I heard a flute concerto by him on the radio recently and it was rather good.
It was preformed by Rachael Brown and came from this recording…………..I must get a copy!

http://www.allmusic.com/performance/concerto-for-flute--orchestra-no-256-in-a-major-f1075311

PS, you can sample the concerto at the bottom of the page.


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## Noldorin (Dec 15, 2011)

I very much agree that Cherubini was underrated; not to mention his fellow (somewhat earlier) Italian composer of the 18th century, Luigi Boccherini. Cherubini unfortunately confined himself mostly to choral works and a few symphonies, both of which are perform infrequently these days, but some of the former in particular are masterpieces. We forget that Beethoven admired none of his contemporaries more than Cherubini!


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

TxllxT said:


> There are a lot of Czech 'fringe' composers: Suk, Martinu,
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Czech_composers


They are certainly not from the classical period and they get a lot of attention both as recordings and in concert.


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## hocket (Feb 21, 2010)

moody said:


> They are certainly not from the classical period and they get a lot of attention both as recordings and in concert.


True, though oddly enough his point is correct, there is a huge amount of Czech/Bohemian Classicism that remains far more obscure than it ought (mind you, the truth is that barring Mozart, Haydn and one or two others Classicism isn't really widely appreciated). Jurianbai might want to check out the music for wind instruments by Franz Krommer for one. I particularly like Kozeluch's Piano Trios at the moment. Franz Xaver Richter aqnd Johann Stamitz are pivotal figures in Classicism, wrote thrilling music and are greatly underappreciated IMO.

Georg Matthias Monn is a bit of a favourite. Cimarosa is also someone I'm currently enjoying a lot.

I'm really into the Milanese school at the moment. Giovanni Battista Sammartini and Antonio Brioschi. That such a crucial period remains so obscure is surely what this thread is all about.

Are the likes of Leonardo Vinci and Pergolesi Classical? The whole distinction between Galant(e) and Classical is extremely hazy and it seems to mean different things to different people. To some it seems that Galant is a term to ensure that nothing other than Mozart or Haydn can be regarded as Classical! In another thread Noldorin even refers to Boccherini as Galant. I'm at the other end of the spectrum -I tend to use Galant to refer only to the very early stages of the transition from baroque era music to the Classical style -so it's things like Heinichen, Vivaldi and Hasse.

Things like Boccherini, CPE and JC Bach and Spohr are of course resurgent though as far as the broader public is concerned they remain underrated in my view.


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## John Kiunke (Mar 25, 2016)

*Kozeluch* was said to be the "most loved living composer" when his string quartets were published. His piano trios, sonatas, and symphonies are on par with many of Haydn's and Mozart's.
*Dittersdorf* wrote in a Mozart-like style, and although he was not as much of a genius, his Symphony in A minor and Oratorio _Ester_ are great pieces of music, and if you love sequences like I do, he's to die for.
*J.C. Bach* was Mozart's greatest influence, and his Op. 5 sonatas and Op. 18 symphonies show why Mozart admired him so much. (In fact I prefer his Op. 18/2 and Op. 6/6 to many of Mozart's early symphonies)
*Clementi* was probably the greatest pianist of the century in terms of technique, and his sonatas (Op. 8/1 and 13/3 are some of my favorites) and numbered symphonies (four of them) are sublime pieces of music. I believe he is number 4 outside Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

John Kiunke said:


> *Kozeluch* was said to be the "most loved living composer" when his string quartets were published.


Not everybody loved him. Both Mozart and Beethoven thought he was too prolific and his quality suffered in consequence. In addition, Beethoven disliked him personally and nicknamed him "Miserabilis."

On Mozart's death, he was supposed to have said, "Of course it's too bad about such a great genius, but it's good for us that he's dead. Because if he had lived longer, really the world would not have given a single piece of bread for our compositions."


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## Rhombic (Oct 28, 2013)

Anton Reicha, to start with. But I used to know quite a few. Many of Haydn's pupils are underrated.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Vanhal would be another.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Joseph Martin Kraus was an almost exact contemporary of Mozart, and died just a year after him. He wrote a fair amount of very distinctive music, including one symphony for Haydn to perform at Esterhazy. Haydn later said, "The symphony he wrote here in Vienna especially for me will be regarded as a masterpiece for centuries to come; believe me, there are few people who can compose something like that."

That may have been this symphony:


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