# Turando’ or Turandot



## Bellerophon (May 15, 2020)

Which is the correct pronunciation?


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Her name is sung by more than one character in the opera and it always sounds like Turando*t* to me.


----------



## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Strictly speaking, the latter. It's written in Italian, not in French, so the final "t" should be sounded.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Bellerophon said:


> Which is the correct pronunciation?


See first line:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turandot


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

If you listen carefully to your cd's or watch a live performance, every character pronounces it, "Too-ran-'DUTT" rhymes with "cut"
However, there will always be controversy.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

On my recordings Turandott


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The opera is Italian. I've never heard any Italian singer pronounce the *T* in Turandot. It would sound like Turandotah or Turandoteh, as it's impossible in that language to sing a consonant without a vowel (sound).

When sung it sounds like "Two Run doe!" (My attempt at phonetic spelling).






In the video, Corelli sings "Turando" three time starting at 4:07


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

MAS said:


> The opera is Italian. I've never heard any Italian singer pronounce the *T* in Turandot. It would sound like Turandotah or Turandoteh, as it's impossible in that language to sing a consonant without a vowel (sound).
> 
> When sung it sounds like "Two Run doe!" (My attempt at phonetic spelling).
> 
> ...


It *is* possible, however, that an English or German speaker might sing the last *t* in Turandot, as in their languages, a final consonant occurs frequently.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I've always thought the last T was silent. According to Wikipedia:



> Soprano Rosa Raisa, who created the title role, said that neither Puccini nor Arturo Toscanini, who conducted the first performances, ever pronounced the final t. Eva Turner, a prominent Turandot, did not pronounce the final t, as television interviews with her attest. Casali also maintains that the musical setting of many of Calaf's utterances of the name makes sounding the final t all but impossible.


Who knows if that is true, considering it's from Wikipedia, but if it is, I'd say that's good enough reason to not pronounce the final T.

On the Mehta recording, Pavarotti definitely does not sound as if he pronounces the last T, but other singers in the recording seem to. On the Molinari-Pradelli recording, Corelli does not pronounce the last T, but other singers on the recording do. Listen to the final riddle on these recordings. You can hear the Calaf say Turando, but Ping, Pang, and Pong seem to say Turandot.


----------



## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

adriesba said:


> I've always thought the last T was silent. According to Wikipedia:
> 
> Who knows if that is true, considering it's from Wikipedia, but if it is, I'd say that's good enough reason to not pronounce the final T.
> 
> On the Mehta recording, Pavarotti definitely does not sound as if he pronounces the last T, but other singers in the recording seem to. On the Molinari-Pradelli recording, Corelli does not pronounce the last T, but other singers on the recording do. Listen to the final riddle on these recordings. You can hear the Calaf say Turando, but Ping, Pang, and Pong seem to say Turandot.


I was sure Pavarotti pronounced it, but maybe I just assumed it was there.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I was sure Pavarotti pronounced it, but maybe I just assumed it was there.


Pavrotti pronounces it Turandott


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I was sure Pavarotti pronounced it, but maybe I just assumed it was there.





DavidA said:


> Pavrotti pronounces it Turandott


I just checked the Mehta recording (the execution scene, the scene where Calaf strikes the gong, and the final riddle) to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong. Pavarotti definitely does *not* pronounce the last T.


----------



## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

adriesba said:


> I've always thought the last T was silent. According to Wikipedia:
> 
> Who knows if that is true, considering it's from Wikipedia, but if it is, I'd say that's good enough reason to not pronounce the final T.
> 
> On the Mehta recording, Pavarotti definitely does not sound as if he pronounces the last T, but other singers in the recording seem to. On the Molinari-Pradelli recording, Corelli does not pronounce the last T, but other singers on the recording do. Listen to the final riddle on these recordings. You can hear the Calaf say Turando, but Ping, Pang, and Pong seem to say Turandot.


In some recordings it seems the "other characters" may do on a short note, or *seem to*. Pavarotti in the Sutherland recording sings *Turandot* three times in the scene after _Non piangere Liu_, and only on the final "Doe" does he stops just short of the final *t*; he comes right next to it but stops before pronouncing it, which gives the impression he did.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

MAS said:


> In some recordings it seems the "other characters" may do on a short note, or *seem to*. Pavarotti in the Sutherland recording sings *Turandot* three times in the scene after _Non piangere Liu_, and only on the final "Doe" does he stops just short of the final *t*; he comes right next to it but stops before pronouncing it, which gives the impression he did.


Just been listening. Very difficult to tell. He might stop short of the t. But the other characters definitely pronounce it. Corelli does exactly the same.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

I just don't hear the T.  I don't know...


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I've always found this question rather strange as Italian is a phonetic language and Turandot would be pronounced Turandot, whereas the Turandoh pronunciation we hear from Corelli and others would be how it would be said in French. Had it been italianised then it would be Turandotta! (Think Isolde = Isotta.)

Whilst in Italian words end in a vowel, there are a few foreign words that have entered the language and the consonant is pronounced. Some dialects have plenty of words that end in a vowel, most notably Venetian and some light is shed on this mystery when one takes into account that the basis for the opera was a Venetian play called Turandot (it all makes sense when you consider that the name isn't Italian (or Chinese), but Venetian dialect. (The play was sometimes referred to as La Turandotte, which may be an italianisation of the Venetian title.)

Perhaps Puccini didn't think to italianise the name and not being Venetian thought it better to treat it as if it were French rather than Venetian. (Note that in Venetian the accent would come on the last syllable - Two-ran-DOT.)

N.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I’ve listened carefully and pretty sure both Pav and Corelli say Turandohh with a short o on the end. They do not say oe.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

DavidA said:


> I've listened carefully and pretty sure both Pav and Corelli say Turandohh with a short o on the end. They do not say oe.


I think that's just two different ways of trying to write the Italian closed 'O' sound into an English phonetic text. I'm happy with either, I just used MAS' spelling for continuation purposes and I think we are all saying the same thing (it's the difference between o' and ot that's important).

N.


----------



## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

Here is a link to an article by Neil Kurtzman that I found interesting. It sheds some light on the pronunciation controversy from the standpoint of the first Turandot (Rosa Raisa) - she is able to share direct knowledge of how Puccini and Toscanini pronounced it (no final T):

https://medicine-opera.com/2008/12/turandot-without-the-t/


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Dick Johnson said:


> Here is a link to an article by Neil Kurtzman that I found interesting. It sheds some light on the pronunciation controversy from the standpoint of the first Turandot (Rosa Raisa) - she is able to share direct knowledge of how Puccini and Toscanini pronounced it (no final T):
> 
> https://medicine-opera.com/2008/12/turandot-without-the-t/


Yes, I was wondering when someone would finally get around to the famous Raisa pronunciation. 
Perhaps back in those days they decided that it sounded nicer to sing the name without the "T" at the end but somehow, through the years it obviously became more palatable to add the "T".
I remember reading in my Puccini book by Budden on page 437, a sentence that Puccini said to his publisher, "No, no, no. Turandot no." And I often wondered whether he was rhyming Turandot with "no". Interesting thought but never really confirmed.

I have yet to hear any opera production only use the "O" ending but then one can never know.
As I said before, there will always be some controversy.


----------



## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Dick Johnson said:


> Here is a link to an article by Neil Kurtzman that I found interesting. It sheds some light on the pronunciation controversy from the standpoint of the first Turandot (Rosa Raisa) - she is able to share direct knowledge of how Puccini and Toscanini pronounced it (no final T):
> 
> https://medicine-opera.com/2008/12/turandot-without-the-t/


I like the fact that this hints that the play's name may have been pronounced with the 't', but it was Puccini who wanted it without the 't'. (And more importantly, he therefore composed it to be sung that way.)

N.


----------



## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks The. Oh I just loved this article. And on and on it goes, and where she stops....


----------

