# Japanese Composers



## Argus

There seem to be a fair few out there nowadays. Who are your favourites? First one to say Takemitsu gets a 'Captain Obvious Special Award Badge for Pointing Out The Obvious'.

Somei Satoh:





Yoshihisa Taira:





Takehisa Kosugi's 70's band:





Joji Yuasa:





Not a composer but a collective, Geinoh Yamashirogumi:




Fans of the movie Akira may recognise these guys.


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## Huilunsoittaja

*A really neat Japanese piece*






I'm secretly here in this group, not the solo flutist though. It's an absolutely wonderful solo though, I would have wanted to play it.


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## Art Rock

Takemitsu is of course hors concours. Some other interesting Japanese composers/compositions on Naxos:


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## LordBlackudder

The most famous Japanese composer is Nobuo Uematsu.

His name, music and face is instantly recognizable to millions. Millions of nerds but still more popular than others.

He's even on the wiki page for Music of Japan.


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## Il Seraglio

Some great music in this thread, although I enjoy traditional Gagaku much more than some of the more avant-garde stuff.




Not forgetting the music of Japanese theatre.




Just to jump back to the 21st Century, I'm sure I've raved about Susumu Yokota some time on here before. He's maybe not as "serious" as other composers, but you won't get bored of his music in a hurry.


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## Argus

I enjoyed that Susumu Yokota piece. I'll check out some more of his music.

I didn't have Gagaku or any traditional Japanese music forms in mind when I created this thread, but I do like the stuff. I'm not as keen on Noh or Shomyo, even though I can listen to both of them now and again.

Another for Art Rock's Naxos collection:










I've been listening to a bit of Mayazumi for the last couple of days. He's quite interesting. His earlier stuff is much more avant-garde and Western-influenced, even though I think it retains a Japanese essence, but his later stuff is much more Eastern sounding.

Pierre Schaffer inspired musique concrete:





John Cage inspired prepared piano:





This is an interesting piece for 'multi-piano', Stockhausen-esque maybe:





This cello piece comes a year after the last piece and I think moving towards a firmer Japanese sound:





His orchestral pieces are much more Stravinskian I find.

He also did the soundtrack to Profound Desire of the Gods, which I heard long before I was aware of him properly.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Of the four clips posted above by member Argus (post #6), I thought the cello piece sounded most modern and Japanese at the same time (last clip). I could almost say I like it due to its Japanese feel. (I quite like traditional "classical" Japanese music).

The three other clips though, belong to the weird electronic/crappy junk variety, way beyond a mere simpleton like me to understand and appreciate.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

I like traditional Japanese music.


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## tdc

^ I agree there was some nice stuff posted there by Argus. (I also enjoyed the traditional Gagaku as well). Mayazumi is a composer I'm definetely going to check out further...I even enjoyed some of his more 'avante garde' pieces...


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## Sid James

The only Japanese composers that I am familiar with are Takemitsu & Ifukube (the latter mainly thanks to a former member here, Tapkaara, who created the long thread on this very topic below). Takemitsu's main influences outside of his native country seemed to be French - Debussy and Messiaen particularly come to mind. Ifukube was more tonal, and his main influences were Orff, Stravinsky and Prokofiev...

http://www.talkclassical.com/5085-japanese-composers.html


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## Argus

Andre said:


> The only Japanese composers that I am familiar with are Takemitsu & Ifukube (the latter mainly thanks to a former member here, Tapkaara, who created the long thread on this very topic below).
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/5085-japanese-composers.html


For such a long thread it doesn't mention that many composers, mainly Ifukube and Takemitsu. Satoh, Yoshimatsu and Akutagawa get mentioned near the end.

I've yet to mention composers I don't like yet. Guys like Ichiyanagi, Kondo, Takahashi, Hosokawa I can't get into. I'll post the best I've heard from them.

This has an interesting Japanese instrument (the sho) but it does bore me:





This sounds very reminiscient of Feldman:





Solo flute with score, but poor sound quality:





These are _almost_ decent but don't make me want to listen further. They leave me a bit flat really.

Not sure if they're strictly classical but seeing as Gagaku is being mentioned, Ryoji Ikeda and Otomo Yoshihide deserve a mention for beind badass.






This is just excellent, but isn't representative of his whole oeuvre:


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## Fsharpmajor

I haven't heard this Naxos CD by Hiroshi Ohguri, but it got a very good review:

*http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=6981*

The full list of Naxos Japanese Classics is here:

*http://www.naxos.com/series/japanese_classics.htm*


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## Tapkaara

The Oguri disc is a winner! He was a great melodist and a very canny orchestrator. The performances and sound on this Naxos disc are tops.


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## bassClef

Welcome back (again) Tapkaara


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## norman bates

Teiji Ito is an interesting composer. The soundtrack inspired by gagaku music for Maya Deren's short masterpiece "Meshes of the afternoon" is a masterpiece of atmosphere in itself


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## Tapkaara

bassClef said:


> Welcome back (again) Tapkaara


Hello bassClef!


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## Tapkaara

norman bates said:


> Teiji Ito is an interesting composer. The soundtrack inspired by gagaku music for Maya Deren's short masterpiece "Meshes of the afternoon" is a masterpiece of atmosphere in itself


Here is a Japanese composer I've not heard of. Does he compose concert works?


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## Argus

I'll mention a great young shakuhachi player, Sabu Orimo. He mixes the traditional style with extended techniques.






I also heard a koto player named Chieko Mori on the radio last week that sounded brilliant.

I find it interesting how a culture built on tradition and respect for history and nature took so well to the avant-garde and electronic arenas. Aside from the harsh noise scene which is pretty big over there apparently, you get lots of guys doing more subtly interesting things. Makigami Koichi, Keiji Haino, Ikue Mori, Adachi Tomomi, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Yoshio Machida, Akio Suzuki, Toshiya Tsunoda.

There are plenty of nice tunes in there too:


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## norman bates

Tapkaara said:


> Here is a Japanese composer I've not heard of. Does he compose concert works?


I don't know but i don't think he composed concert works, and often he played all the instruments by himself.

an introduction:
http://www.classicalarchives.com/composer/6417.html#tvf=tracks&tv=about


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## bassClef

I just heard the Naxos Hiroshi Ohguri disk - wonderful stuff!










And their Hashimoto is pretty good too:


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## Tapkaara

bassClef said:


> I just heard the Naxos Hiroshi Ohguri disk - wonderful stuff!
> 
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> 
> And their Hashimoto is pretty good too:


The Oguri disc is a GREAT example of how unjustly Japanese composers are overlooked in the west. One would swear Toru Takemitsu is the ONLY composer who ever came from the land of the Rising Sun.

Even the conductor Seiji Ozawa said very chauvenistically about Takemitsu: "Finally Japan has produced a composer for a world audeince." What a slap in the face to all of the the Japanese composers who came before Takemitsu, and there were many. Oguri, for example, was already established as a composer before Takemitsu really came on the scene. And clearly, Oguri was a real talent.

Hashimoto I am less enthusiastic about. His music is rather unoriginal and unengaging. I've yet to be made a convert to his music.


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## bassClef

In truth I've only listened to Hashimoto's "Heavenly Maiden and Fisherman" symphnic suite thus far, but I liked it. You're right it's not as good as the Ohguri though - this is set to be one of my favourite disks I think.

I've never really got into Takemitsu.

Right now I'm listening to some Saburo Moroi, let's see what that's like


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## Tapkaara

bassClef said:


> In truth I've only listened to Hashimoto's "Heavenly Maiden and Fisherman" symphnic suite thus far, but I liked it. You're right it's not as good as the Ohguri though - this is set to be one of my favourite disks I think.
> 
> I've never really got into Takemitsu.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to some Saburo Moroi, let's see what that's like


Moroi I love. If you did not know any better, you'd think he was a European. His music has good, honest melodies and and epic sweep. Nothing too complicated here, just finely crafted music.

I don't want to rip into Hashimoto too much, he certainly has some redeeming qualities. He just lacks a certain originality and finesse to make me appreciate him more.

I have a love/hate relationship with Takemitsu. He is certainly NOT the only Japanese composer worthy of widespread exposure.


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## Argus

New one to me. Misato Mochizuki. No one here will like her. Firstly she's a lady, secondly she's modern and thirdly she doesn't write pretty tunes.













bassClef said:


> I've never really got into Takemitsu.


When he stops trying to be Debussy or Messiaen he's pretty good. Unfortunately, he isn't himself enough for my liking.











The only film I've seen that he scored is Rising Sun, but his film music is supposed to be as good if not better than his concert works. I could do with further exploring his back catalogue sometime.


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## Tapkaara

Takemitsu could write good tunes if he wanted to. His film scores are usually pretty accessible to the novice. I love his score for the film RAN by Kurosawa. i will have to listen to this lady composer, I am not familiar with her. Thanks for the post!


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## Il_Penseroso

I'm quite acquainted with 'Noh' music both theorical and practical. I've read so much about Japanese traditional Noh, Joruri and Kabuki theatres ... but now, I'm gonna find some japanese - classical -operas. Could anyone here help me with the most famous ones ?


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## Vaneyes

Tapkaara said:


> Takemitsu could write good tunes if he wanted to. His film scores are usually pretty accessible to the novice. I love his score for the film RAN by Kurosawa. i will have to listen to this lady composer, I am not familiar with her. Thanks for the post!


Re Takemitsu, that sounds condescending...is that what you meant?


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## Tapkaara

Vaneyes said:


> Re Takemitsu, that sounds condescending...is that what you meant?


I did not mean to be condescending. What I said was very literal.


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## Tapkaara

Argus.

Just listened to Misato Mochizuki. The first video, Pas à pas, is nonesense. I won't even attempt to critique it or comment on it. The second video sounds less ugly, but it's really more of a mixture of verious sound effects more than music, per se. Not a fan. This could have been written by anyone with "modernist" credentials.

Man, does that stuff cleanse your palette for the Takemitsu videos you posted. The first Takemitsu piece, In an Autumn Garden, is not really something I would get all excited about, but it's interesting as I can hear a sho (Japanese mouth organ) in it and the woodwinds sound like bird calls. This is more "sound effects" than music to me. The Eclipse music has a biwa and what sounds like a shakuhachi. Static but evocative and mildly haunting. My favorite of the lot.


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## Tapkaara

Il_Penseroso said:


> I'm quite acquainted with 'Noh' music both theorical and practical. I've read so much about Japanese traditional Noh, Joruri and Kabuki theatres ... but now, I'm gonna find some japanese - classical -operas. Could anyone here help me with the most famous ones ?


Yashishi Akutagawa wrote the opera L'Orphée de Hiroshima (Orpheus in Hiroshima) in 1960. I have not heard it, though Akutagawa is one of my favorie Japanese composers.

To my knowledge, not many western-style operas have come out of Japan. Perhaps that language is not well suited to this type of music. Or, probably more accurately, the public would have a hard time hearing opera in Japanese!


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## Il_Penseroso

Tapkaara said:


> Yashishi Akutagawa wrote the opera L'Orphée de Hiroshima (Orpheus in Hiroshima) in 1960. I have not heard it, though Akutagawa is one of my favorie Japanese composers.
> 
> To my knowledge, not many western-style operas have come out of Japan. Perhaps that language is not well suited to this type of music. Or, probably more accurately, the public would have a hard time hearing opera in Japanese!


The langauage is not so important as most of the people think, but thank you so much for introducing Yashishi Akutagawa ! I read his biography, I didn't know that the son of my favorite Japanese writer was a composer ! I love his father's short stories and plays (How unfortunate for me, have to read them in traslation). Anyway , I got to get this opera !


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## Tapkaara

Il_Penseroso said:


> The langauage is not so important as most of the people think, but thank you so much for introducing Yashishi Akutagawa ! I read his biography, I didn't know that the son of my favorite Japanese writer was a composer ! I love his father's short stories and plays (How unfortunate for me, have to read them in traslation). Anyway , I got to get this opera !


I misspelled his name by the way. It's Yasushi Akutagawa. It's not that I did not know how to spell/say his name, it's just that my fingers did not type what I was thinking!

He's a really good composer and a great starting point for anyone who wants to begin learning about composers from Japan.


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## Il_Penseroso

Tapkaara said:


> I misspelled his name by the way. It's Yasushi Akutagawa. It's not that I did not know how to spell/say his name, it's just that my fingers did not type what I was thinking!


I got it ! and through the searching I found the correct spell, but here I did the same as you did ! :lol: so, never mind !



> He's a really good composer and a great starting point for anyone who wants to begin learning about composers from Japan.


It was told in an article that western opera became popular during the Meiji era, but I wanted to find operas in japanese (language). I'm curious to see if these operas have been affected by japanese traditional dramas and how it could be. I've found some titles : "Kurofune" composed by Kosaku Yamada, "Yuzuru" by Ikuma Dan and also a later one "Kinkaku-ji" by Toshiro Mayuzumi. I keep trying to see what can I do by that ...


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## Tapkaara

Il_Penseroso said:


> I got it ! and through the searching I found the correct spell, but here I did the same as you did ! :lol: so, never mind !
> 
> It was told in an article that western opera became popular during the Meiji era, but I wanted to find operas in japanese (language). I'm curious to see if these operas have been affected by japanese traditional dramas and how it could be. I've found some titles : "Kurofune" composed by Kosaku Yamada, "Yuzuru" by Ikuma Dan and also a later one "Kinkaku-ji" by Toshiro Mayuzumi. I keep trying to see what can I do by that ...


I am familiar with Yamada, Dan and Mayuzumi. All three of them were fairly well known in their time. Yamada is more or less considered the father of Japanese (western-style) classical music in Japan. Aside from being a composer he was also a conductor and lead the premieres of several famous classical works in Japan. I happen to know he was the first person to conduct Finlandia there.

Dan wrote music in a very accessible style and worked quite a bit in the film industry, as did just about every other major Japanese composer.

Mayuzumi was more modernist but not nearly as "far out" as Takemitsu, for example. He was especially well known as a presenter for music-themed televison shows in Japan.


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## Argus

Tapkaara said:


> Mayuzumi was more modernist but not nearly as "far out" as Takemitsu, for example. He was especially well known as a presenter for music-themed televison shows in Japan.


There are some Mayuzumi videos on the first page of this thread. I think Takemitsu is quite a good parallel to him. Both had one foot in tradition and the other in progress. But yeah, I agree he wasn't as 'far out' as Takemitsu.

Il Penseroso, you might enjoy his Nirvana Symphony. Not an opera, clearly, but it does feature a chorus:






His Symphonic Mood is another worth checking out.


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## Il_Penseroso

Tapkaara said:


> Yamada is more or less considered the father of Japanese (western-style) classical music in Japan. Aside from being a composer he was also a conductor and lead the premieres of several famous classical works in Japan. I happen to know he was the first person to conduct Finlandia there.


Sibelius ... ! He is my all-time favorite composer ... great composer, great personality ... so far from our world and our view !

Yamada's opera Kurofune (The Black Ships) premiered before word war II and was the most important Japanese opera up to that time. The drama was influenced by Kabuki style while the music featured European elemnets. I'm so eager to listen to his music !



> Mayuzumi was more modernist but not nearly as "far out" as Takemitsu, for example. He was especially well known as a presenter for music-themed televison shows in Japan.


I don't know this composer (Mayuzumi, I'm now listening to the work Argus has given the link) but I've heard some of Takemitsu's film scores plus one of his symphonic works conducted by Ozawa. It was a long time ago and I don't remember the title of the work, but as I remember, it was written for Shakuhachi and Biwa solos and orchestra.



Argus said:


> Il Penseroso, you might enjoy his Nirvana Symphony. Not an opera, clearly, but it does feature a chorus:
> 
> His Symphonic Mood is another worth checking out.


Thanks Argus, I'm now listening to it and I'll try later his 'Symphonic Mood' you mentioned. I know something about Japanese traditional music, but it's just the beginning to know their classical works !


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## bassClef

Another Japanese composer I've just happened across - *Komei Abe* - his Naxos disk is very enjoyable.


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## Guest

Hey Argus, I have Misato Mochizuki tracks on several CDs. I liked your clips, too. Those were quite enjoyable. 

Tapkaara, your limitations as a listener are keeping you from enjoying quite a lot of cool stuff. Which is entirely up to you. But why smear the things you are incapable of enjoying, and why attempt to discourage others from enjoying them?

(Sorry about the delay in replying. I haven't been following this thread. Too discouraging.)


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## Guest

Out of nowhere "some guy" comes and attacks Tapkaara ad hominem. Foul!! Where's the penalty box?

I hope cooler heads prevail. I have enjoyed Tapkaara's and everyone else's posts.


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## Guest

BPS, it wasn't out of nowhere, but it might have seemed so. I was responding to two comments on page 2 (one by Tapkaara) without noticing that there was a page three, too, full of other comments by Tapkaara.

Here's the relevant one: "Just listened to Misato Mochizuki. The first video, Pas à pas, is nonesense(sic). I won't even attempt to critique it or comment on it. The second video sounds less ugly, but it's really more of a mixture of verious(sic) sound effects more than music, per se. Not a fan. This could have been written by anyone with 'modernist' credentials."

You wanna call foul? Try that one!

(Also, just by the way, do look up the definition of "ad hominem." So you don't misuse it in future, you know.)


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## starthrower

some guy said:


> (Also, just by the way, do look up the definition of "ad hominem." So you don't misuse it in future, you know.)


This ought to clear things up!

http://plover.net/~bonds/adhominem.html


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## Guest

Let me just reiterate that I think Tapkaara's contributions have been generally positive and informative, and I hope this forum remains a place where we can share our knowledge, enthusiasm, and opinions, as Tapkaara has done admirably.

I don't think anything he wrote above justifies personal attacks such as "limitations as a listener", "smear", and "incapable of enjoying"; particularly coming from somebody who has not made any earlier contributions to the discussion.


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## bassClef

bassClef said:


> Another Japanese composer I've just happened across - *Komei Abe* - his Naxos disk is very enjoyable.


On second listening, it's pretty dazzling. Love it.


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## Flamme

Hello guys from a newbie
Can anyone help me im seeking a video i watched on Youtube incorporing Openheimers speech after The nuking of Japan ''I am to become death...'' + classical composition in backgroud..


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## Tapkaara

Here is a song by one of my favorites, Fumio Hayasaka. Uguisu, or, The Nightingale.


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## LordBlackudder




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