# Demographics of Male / Female taste preferences...



## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I found this Alfredo Casella link on Youtube: 
Alfredo Casella: _Partita per pianoforte e piccola orchestra_




I had clicked on 'like' and was curious as to the tally of likes on the link.
Just to the right above the window, second from the far right after "About, Share, Add to" is the graphic you can click on to open up "Statistics." I hadn't seen this (relatively newer) format, including demographic breakdown as to age and gender. -- There, in the audience break-down, I found:
Male, 45-54 years 
Male, 55-64 years 
Male, 35-44 years

No women have 'liked' this? And might there be any _reasonable_ explanation of why it seems only males have liked the piece, and none under age 35?

Is there really then, in classical music, a 'women's taste, a women's music, and 'man's music?'
Odd, Odd, Odd.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Thinking back many years...both my Mom and Dad both liked classical music. But my Dad preferred Beethoven and later Haydn, while my Mom preferred Debussy, and Rimsky-Korsakoff. So in my experience, there was a real difference between male and female tastes in music. Perhaps not representative, of course! But I have always thought of one style as masculine, the other as feminine.

For the record, some contemporary reviews of Beethoven refer to his music as "manly." And we occasionally see the same thought here on this forum, where a poster recently referred to Suzuki's approach to Bach's cantatas as somewhat "feminine."


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Is the majority of the classical audience men anyway? Not sure.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

There are only 18 likes. Way too small a sample size to draw any conclusions.

Number of other points, you also need a YouTube account to like anything which also means you need to sign in to YouTube to like or comment. 

How many of us have a YouTube account? How many sign in on a regular basis? How many of us comment on videos on YouTube? 

A lot of the time, we find stuff we like and post it on FB or stick it on TC and let other people see it and comment on it that way.

I think, therefore, that it is almost impossible to draw any conclusion from this other than "insufficient data".


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

University studies of men & women having conversations have found that there are significant differences. Men interrupt more - argue more - contradict more. Women 'take turns' - agree more - comment favourably on others' contributions before making their own point. If men & women are both present & there are one or two 'dominant' men talking, women stay silent.
From this I would extrapolate that more men join forums of any kind, where they are also more vocal. So women may listen to YouTube music but even if they have an account, not bother - or dare - to comment.
Btw, I don't see women as 'timid' in these contexts but as 'sensible' & 'polite'.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

This investigation of the cultural consumption and interests of the Danes in 2012 http://kum.dk/Documents/Publikationer/2012/Bogen danskernes_kulturvaner_pdfa.pdf states that roughly 1/3 of the population has an interest in classical music (much more than I thought, actually)(p.41). And that 29% of the male population and 34% of the female tell of such an interest (p.34). The interest increased dramatically with the age of the interviewed people.

On the other hand I´m pretty sure that an absorbing interest in collecting obscure classical music is _mainly_ a male thing. If working in a classical record shop and frequenting them regularly, one will soon realize that the majority of such customers are male, though opera in particular probably has a more equal share of dedicated fans.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

At last - some hard information!


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Taggart said:


> There are only 18 likes. Way too small a sample size to draw any conclusions.
> 
> Number of other points, you also need a YouTube account to like anything which also means you need to sign in to YouTube to like or comment.
> 
> ...


Taggart has the makings of a research scientist. :tiphat:


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Kivimees said:


> Taggart has the makings of a research scientist. :tiphat:


What's the recipe? I love cooking!


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

Perhaps it suggests more about female internet habits than music habits?


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The original question, "Is there really then, in classical music, a 'women's taste, a women's music, and 'man's music," is interesting. 

Has anyone found that to be the case? Do some composers have a larger fanbase of men or women?

Just from what I've seen, it seems that Anton Bruckner attracts generally more men. Also, Chopin, though he appeals to both genders, seems to be on a lot of women's preference lists.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I wouldn't expect to find a lot of difference or a significant, strong difference between women's tastes and men's tastes, or we'd be intuitively at least somewhat familiar with it already. 

The only things I would be willing to bet research time on is that women (or maybe only young women) might be measurably more interested than men in individual performers, and that men might be measurably more interested than women in classification of musical traditions and the various -isms and the ideological conflicts between them. joen-cph could be onto something as well. I'd like to see that researched. I suspect we may be intuitively familiar with these generalizations already. 

Here I'm thinking of music generally rather than classical music in particular.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> University studies of men & women having conversations have found that there are significant differences. Men interrupt more - argue more - contradict more. Women 'take turns' - agree more - comment favourably on others' contributions before making their own point. If men & women are both present & there are one or two 'dominant' men talking, women stay silent.
> From this I would extrapolate that more men join forums of any kind, where they are also more vocal. So women may listen to YouTube music but even if they have an account, not bother - or dare - to comment.
> Btw, I don't see women as 'timid' in these contexts but as 'sensible' & 'polite'.


Dude. It ain't the 1800s anymore  most women, at least here in America, don't mind letting you know what they think :3


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I like that its all men talking about how women supposedly conduct themselves online, and the musical proclivities of women. You don't see me coming in here and making broad statements and guesses about what men do online, or their general musical interests, because all men are different, as are all women.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kivimees said:


> Taggart has the makings of a research scientist. :tiphat:


...and I, certainly do not! Did not realize it was 18 respondents only.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Taggart said:


> What's the recipe? I love cooking!


Ahem: I know 'the other white meat' is generally considered pork, but I think research scientists themselves are a bit out of bounds as regards to cooking them up....


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Dude. It ain't the 1800s anymore  most women, at least here in America, don't mind letting you know what they think :3


But, ma'am, I'm near certain you meant 'dudette,' of course


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> I like that its all men talking about how women supposedly conduct themselves online, and the musical proclivities of women. You don't see me coming in here and making broad statements and guesses about what men do online, or their general musical interests, because all men are different, as are all women.


I was hoping for women speaking for themselves, as it was in my household growing up.


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

Burning Desire said



> because all men are different


I'm not.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Burning Desire said
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.. all men or different? and if the latter different to what?


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> I like that its all men talking about how women supposedly conduct themselves online, and the musical proclivities of women. You don't see me coming in here and making broad statements and guesses about what men do online, or their general musical interests, because *all men are different, as are all women*.


Well, _there's_ a broad statement! :devil:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> Dude. It ain't the 1800s anymore  most women, at least here in America, don't mind letting you know what they think :3


With respect, "Dude", I was simply citing the results of social science experiments in the UK in the 1990s, from when I was teaching English Language 'A'-level in a sixth form college.

Even in the 1800s American women had a reputation for speaking their mind. 

PS In case you hadn't realised, I am a woman...


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Nereffid said:


> Well, _there's_ a broad statement! :devil:


Its broadly nuanced :3


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

The one who first introduced me to Bruckner and Mahler was a woman. So much for stereotyping...


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> Well, _there's_ a broad statement! :devil:


Is BurningDesire from Norfolk? 

There are so many beautiful Broads here - Hemsby, Hickling, Barton, Breydon to name but a few.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I am a woman too, and I'd really love to know, just what are the musical proclivities of women?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Taggart said:


> Is BurningDesire from Norfolk?
> 
> There are so many beautiful Broads here - Hemsby, Hickling, Barton, Breydon to name but a few.


Yes, they've been working on them - tidying up the reeds, dredging the bottoms, listening to the water music...


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I am a woman too, and I'd really love to know, just what are the musical proclivities of women?


Same as any other human being - many and various.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I am a woman too, and I'd really love to know, just what are the musical proclivities of women?


I suppose you'd have to do the research. But on an 'opinion' level, I can't help thinking that more men may like Wagner than women, and that my own favourite, French Baroque*, may just garner more women. Happy to be contradicted, of course. It would be nice to hear people's views.

* Yours sincerely, Madame la Marquise


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Manxfeeder said:


> The original question, "Is there really then, in classical music, a 'women's taste, a women's music, and 'man's music," is interesting.
> 
> Has anyone found that to be the case? Do some composers have a larger fanbase of men or women?
> 
> Just from what I've seen, it seems that Anton Bruckner attracts generally more men. Also, Chopin, though he appeals to both genders, seems to be on a lot of women's preference lists.


I've heard more than one male describe, with more than a little distaste, Chopin as being 'effete.' -- I'm guessing, but the hunch is strong, they meant 'effeminate,' as if that were a negative quality if either male or female....
But it 'tells' as to some actual tastes and cultural conditioning as to gender, I think.

So much for Schumann's comment on Chopin, "Cannon hidden amongst flowers."


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

Taggart said:


> .. all men or different? and if the latter different to what?


I'm not different.

Think 'Monty Python's Life of Brian'

Brian: Please, please, please listen! I've got one or two things to say. 
The Crowd: Tell us! Tell us both of them! 
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals! 
The Crowd: Yes! We're all individuals! 
Brian: You're all different! 
The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different! 
*Man in crowd: I'm not... *


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

PetrB said:


> I've heard more than one male describe, with more than a little distaste, Chopin as being 'effete.' -- I'm guessing, but the hunch is strong, they meant 'effeminate,' as if that were a negative quality if either male or female....
> But it 'tells' as to some actual tastes and cultural conditioning as to gender, I think.
> 
> So much for Schumann's comment on Chopin, "Cannon hidden amongst flowers."


That sexist Schumann again, on Beethoven's 4th Symphony (from memory): "A slender Norse maiden between two Greek giants."


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

starry said:


> Is the majority of the classical audience men anyway? Not sure.


Yeah, that was the first question to pop into my head too. I randomly found two videos of Mahler 2 and Chopin's Db major nocturne that had the stat function, and both of them displayed "male 35-65" as their top demographics, despite the stereotype of men liking Mahler and women like Chopin.

Still, personally, I didn't even use the "like" button on YouTube at all until recently, but of course that doesn't mean I didn't like the music I heard in the previous years. So maybe it's just internet habits after all.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Something else I thought about as people on this thread tried to work out genders, there is nothing to say that the profile you use is "accurate". Just as many people use ambiguous user names and avatars here, I think some people may use ambiguous YouTube profiles for concealment.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Most people on YouTube do not use the _like/dislike_ feature. Take this performance of Mahler's 2nd Symphony for example; of the 996,415 views (a portion of which is likely repeat viewings and an even larger portion will be partial (maybe just a couple of minutes) viewings) only 2,559 used the feature either way with the vast majority of these being _likes_. Similar trends are observable all over YT, even on the most popular videos (e.g.: Gangnam Style has 1,576,127,340 views but only 7,503,096 likes and 762,201 dislikes) and YT only displays the top three gender/age categories. It seems to me that getting any meaningful picture of _who prefers what_ from YT is quite impossible.


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Thinking back many years...both my Mom and Dad both liked classical music. But my Dad preferred Beethoven and later Haydn, while my Mom preferred Debussy, and Rimsky-Korsakoff. So in my experience, there was a real difference between male and female tastes in music. Perhaps not representative, of course! But I have always thought of one style as masculine, the other as feminine.


Interesting. I was taught (centuries ago) that the V13 - I cadence (V13 = GBFE, upwards) was a "feminine" cadence preferred by the likes of Schubert, Schumann _et al_. As far as I can recall, Ludwig "Big Balls" Beethoven never employed such a progression.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> Most people on YouTube do not use the _like/dislike_ feature. Take this performance of Mahler's 2nd Symphony for example; of the 996,415 views (a portion of which is likely repeat viewings and an even larger portion will be partial (maybe just a couple of minutes) viewings) only 2,559 used the feature either way with the vast majority of these being _likes_. Similar trends are observable all over YT, even on the most popular videos (e.g.: Gangnam Style has 1,576,127,340 views but only 7,503,096 likes and 762,201 dislikes) and YT only displays the top three gender/age categories. It seems to me that getting any meaningful picture of _who prefers what_ from YT is quite impossible.


Not everyone in the preview audience is filling out those cards, then


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

TalkingHead said:


> Interesting. I was taught (centuries ago) that the V13 - I cadence (V13 = GBFE, upwards) was a "feminine" cadence preferred by the likes of Schubert, Schumann _et al_. As far as I can recall, Ludwig "Big Balls" Beethoven never employed such a progression.


_*Well of course he did not use the v13-i cadence*: He didn't want people to suspect he was gay._


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

Well of course, dear PetrB! Still, he got a bit "gender vague" (if I may put it that way) in Diabelli Variation XX1 (may have got the variation number wrong; I mean that very slow one that seems to defy functional harmony).


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> I like that its all men talking about how women supposedly conduct themselves online, and the musical proclivities of women. You don't see me coming in here and making broad statements and guesses about what men do online, or their general musical interests, *because all men are different*, as are all women.


Not true, every man loves bacon!


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## Guest (May 3, 2013)

jani said:


> Not true, every man loves bacon!


Francis Bacon? Yeah, he's OK in my book.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

SiegendesLicht said:


> I am a woman too, and I'd really love to know, just what are the musical proclivities of women?


Well, there's me for a sample.  I'm attracted to many different qualities in music, but I think the greatest quality is contrast. Gentility, yet strength. Can't have just one or the other in a composer, they have to be effective in both ways.

I like to characterize some composers as "Lady's Men" for example Glazunov who dedicated almost all his solo piano music to women, his admirers who would find his salon music sooo charming (which it is ). But I've also read critiques from men that exclaim that Glazunov is truly masculine when it comes to orchestral music. There's Dvorak who is "wild at heart" and takes great risks of expression, but knows how to be a "musical gentleman" when necessary. There's Beethoven who is a "Man's man" and has an overpowering strength that is extremely attractive to men, but attractive for different reasons in women, who perhaps admire him like a macho guy. But certainly not a lady's man, he did not make "dainty" music.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Well, there's me for a sample.  I'm attracted to many different qualities in music, but I think the greatest quality is contrast. Gentility, yet strength. Can't have just one or the other in a composer, they have to be effective in both ways.
> 
> I like to characterize some composers as "Lady's Men" for example Glazunov who dedicated almost all his solo piano music to women, his admirers who would find his salon music sooo charming (which it is ). But I've also read critiques from men that exclaim that Glazunov is truly masculine when it comes to orchestral music. There's Dvorak who is "wild at heart" and takes great risks of expression, but knows how to be a "musical gentleman" when necessary. There's Beethoven who is a "Man's man" and has an overpowering strength that is extremely attractive to men, but attractive for different reasons in women, who perhaps admire him like a macho guy. But certainly not a lady's man, he did not make "dainty" music.


But does 'dainty' mean that women like it? Maybe some women like music that sounds 'macho'?
It's a very interesting question, as all these gender-related debates are, and your exploration of it is also interesting. 
But I do wonder if many individuals, whatever their gender, like a range of people. I like elegant French baroque, maybe 'dainty' music, but I do also like Beethoven.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

jani said:


> Not true, every man loves bacon!


But not every man is allowed (or would want to) eat it!


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> There's Beethoven who is a "Man's man" and has an overpowering strength that is extremely attractive to men, but attractive for different reasons in women, who perhaps admire him like a macho guy. But certainly not a lady's man, he did not make "dainty" music.


Fur Elise? Padding


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Women didn't even listen to music until after John Cage decreed that anything, even vacuum cleaners, can be music.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Taggart said:


> Fur Elise?


Little-known fact: The reason Ludwig found it hard to keep servants was that they were offended by his cross-dressing.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Ingenue said:


> . I like elegant French baroque, maybe 'dainty' music, but I do also like Beethoven.


That's interesting. I like Beethoven, but I also like French Baroque. Maybe I'm the yin to your yang.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Dude. It ain't the 1800s anymore  most women, at least here in America, don't mind letting you know what they think :3


I'm not sure if that's the truth, but its possible that its better than it used to be. Maybe you don't mind letting others know what you think, and that's a refreshing and probably good thing, but many women do not prefer that direct approach, from my experience.

I sort of lie in between with direct vs. passive and sensible approach. Some have told me I'm very passive, others have told me I'm very blunt.

With regards to music, I like both the "organic" Debussy/Rimsky Korsakov type music, and the "logical" Bach/Haydn type music. I sometimes like the two in tandem, like Mozart. I tend to shy from the "expansive styles", like Mahler and Berlioz, only because I sometimes shy from the freedom, lol. But I like the quirky composers in the classical era, like W.F. Bach.

Anyway, there is such a thing as neurological differences between men and women as a general thing. Not a rigid rule, but a tendency.

And "neuro diversity" is okay.


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I found this Alfredo Casella link on Youtube:
> Alfredo Casella: _Partita per pianoforte e piccola orchestra_
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I generally use androgynous usernames and refrain from clicking gender boxes on online profiles, and don't reveal my noticeably female first name until I am comfortable in a particular online community and have reason to believe I won't be harassed or belittled due to my gender in that particular community. This habit comes from experience. I am sure many other women do the same. Nothing to do with musical taste and everything to do with how men and women are treated online.

There was a study of men playing an online game (Halo?) in which the men were asked to team up with a teammate they didn't know and couldn't see except through the medium of text chat. When the teammate was identified as female, the males were much more frequently verbally abusive to the teammate than when the teammate was identified as male.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

KenOC said:


> Little-known fact: The reason Ludwig found it hard to keep servants was that they were offended by his cross-dressing.


Beethoven crossdressed? He's even more of a magnificent badass than I thought before :3


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Ingenue said:


> But does 'dainty' mean that women like it? Maybe some women like music that sounds 'macho'?
> It's a very interesting question, as all these gender-related debates are, and your exploration of it is also interesting.
> But I do wonder if many individuals, whatever their gender, like a range of people. I like elegant French baroque, maybe 'dainty' music, but I do also like Beethoven.


I like dainty music.  I also like macho, but I certainly like dainty more. I prefer flowers over muscles.  But that's just me, perhaps...


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

I like a wide spectrum of music. I don't really think of music as being particularly gendered. Like, what makes Beethoven masculine? What makes Chopin feminine? Is Sophia Gubaidulina masculine or feminine? What about Johann Sebastian Bach? What about Stravinsky? Does my music sound feminine because I'm a female composer? If it does is that a bad thing? If it doesn't, is that a bad thing?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> I like dainty music.  I also like macho, but I certainly like dainty more. I prefer flowers over muscles.  But that's just me, perhaps...


Yes, but you seem to like the lively flowers. Prokofiev must be some kind of venus fly trap.

I must admit a taste for the flowery.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> I like a wide spectrum of music. I don't really think of music as being particularly gendered. Like, what makes Beethoven masculine? What makes Chopin feminine? Is Sophia Gubaidulina masculine or feminine? What about Johann Sebastian Bach? What about Stravinsky? Does my music sound feminine because I'm a female composer? If it does is that a bad thing? If it doesn't, is that a bad thing?


Chopin sounds very sugary&sweet try to understand what i mean, its the best way i can explain it.
I also think that Tchaicovskys music sounds very feminine too, while Wagner& Beethoven sound very masculine.


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

hreichgott said:


> Well, I generally use androgynous usernames and refrain from clicking gender boxes on online profiles, and don't reveal my noticeably female first name until I am comfortable in a particular online community and have reason to believe I won't be harassed or belittled due to my gender in that particular community. This habit comes from experience. I am sure many other women do the same. Nothing to do with musical taste and everything to do with how men and women are treated online.
> 
> *There was a study of men playing an online game (Halo?)* in which the men were asked to team up with a teammate they didn't know and couldn't see except through the medium of text chat. When the teammate was identified as female, the males were much more frequently verbally abusive to the teammate than when the teammate was identified as male.


It's halo so most of the players were 10-18 year olds, also i haven't noticed anykinda verbal abuse on this forum towards females, only very minor teasing now and then which is normal.


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## Guest (May 4, 2013)

jani said:


> only very minor teasing now and then which is normal.


"Normal"?

Being a red-blooded male, I daresay that if the 'femininity' of female members were to be prominent, I might have some 'masculine' response. But since the gender of posters is largely invisible, I'm just conversing with people.


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> I like a wide spectrum of music. I don't really think of music as being particularly gendered. Like, what makes Beethoven masculine? What makes Chopin feminine? Is Sophia Gubaidulina masculine or feminine? What about Johann Sebastian Bach? What about Stravinsky? Does my music sound feminine because I'm a female composer? If it does is that a bad thing? If it doesn't, is that a bad thing?


Seems pretty obvious, the answer to your question. Masculine = Powerful, assertive, Feminine = Dainty, submissive. The gender of the composer isn't relevant. And no, nobody has implied that femininity is bad.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

jani said:


> It's halo so most of the players were 10-18 year olds, also i haven't noticed anykinda verbal abuse on this forum towards females, only very minor teasing now and then which is normal.


I think it's okay on this forum for women too; I am treated more courteously here than on another forum I belong to; but what you don't allow for is that females can feel inhibited from posting if there is some robust male sniping and argy-bargy going on, so we're not getting the full picture. (As soon as a thread degenerates into salacious comments on well-endowed female musicians, for example, I no longer feel comfortable about posting.)

Leaving possible innate differences out of account, females have to be raised to be much more 'on their guard' than males, not out of hidebound Victorianism but because women are more at risk from men than vice versa. If a woman is murdered, there is a fifty percent chance that the killer will be her male partner! So we learn to be careful about revealing too much, saying too much, challenging an unknown bloke etc.

The relevance of this to the OP is just to say that you can't tell a lot from Internet responses.

But the idea that men and women may like different types of music is an interesting one. We can only provide anecdotal evidence, but why doesn't someone organise one of your famous TC polls. Rate the following five composers for supposed feminine/masculine appeal: Beethoven, Wagner, Mozart, Chopin, Tchaikovsky...


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## Guest (May 4, 2013)

Slight thread drift coming up...

Is it only me that thinks numbers have a gender?

1,2,3,5,7,9 are male
4,6,8 are female


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Bach - Handel - Mozart. 
I like all three. 
But Bach's music has male-appeal, Handel female-appeal, and Mozart is unisex. 

That's the way I see it, anyway. Et vous?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Slight thread drift coming up...
> 
> Is it only me that thinks numbers have a gender?
> 
> ...


It probably isn't only you, MacLeod, but I myself see quite a few odd numbers - 7 & 13, for example, as feminine.

I think this notion of dividing the world is common in childhood. As a child, I thought the fork & knife were masculine, & the spoon feminine. My left slipper was a lady, my right was a man. Lupin = male; rose = female. Brown = male; orange = female. Everyone seems to think cats are girls & dogs are boys; so much so that when we got a male cat, even after 10 years we were calling him 'she'!

But what fun it all is. Vive la différence!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> (As soon as a thread degenerates into salacious comments on well-endowed female musicians, for example, I no longer feel comfortable about posting.)


You should just start on about well-endowed male musicians  like Rachmaninov! You know what they say about guys with big hands...~ 

...they can play really big chords on the piano o3o


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> You should just start on about well-endowed male musicians  like Rachmaninov! You know what they say about guys with big hands...~
> 
> ...they can play really big chords on the piano o3o


Ah no, I wouldn't want to limbo-dance to their level, BurningDesire (so aptly named, in this context!).


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## jani (Jun 15, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> I think it's okay on this forum for women too; I am treated more courteously here than on another forum I belong to; but what you don't allow for is that females can feel inhibited from posting if there is some robust male sniping and argy-bargy going on, so we're not getting the full picture. (As soon as a thread degenerates into salacious comments on well-endowed female musicians, for example, I no longer feel comfortable about posting.)
> 
> Leaving possible innate differences out of account, females have to be raised to be much more 'on their guard' than males, not out of hidebound Victorianism but because women are more at risk from men than vice versa. If a woman is murdered, there is a fifty percent chance that the killer will be her male partner! So we learn to be careful about revealing too much, saying too much, challenging an unknown bloke etc.
> 
> ...


- Beethoven masculine
- Wagner masculine
- Mozart metrosexual
- Chopin feminine
- Tchaicovsky feminine ( this one is hard but his music has much pink&glitter&sweetnes)


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Ingenue said:


> Bach - Handel - Mozart.
> I like all three.
> But Bach's music has male-appeal, Handel female-appeal, and Mozart is unisex.
> 
> That's the way I see it, anyway. Et vous?


Why does Bach have male-appeal? o3o I personally find both Handel and Mozart boring, but I love Bach.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> Why does Bach have male-appeal? o3o I personally find both Handel and Mozart boring, but I love Bach.


Only my opinion, partly based on my husband & my male violin teacher both being passionate about his music. With both, the appeal seems to be his complex mathematical structure - maths being traditionally a 'male' subject. But yes, of course there's no logic to it. Thanks for giving me your opinion.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

MacLeod said:


> Slight thread drift coming up...
> 
> Is it only me that thinks numbers have a gender?
> 
> ...


If you are actually talking about numbers, then no I don't gender numbers.

But I have to admit at first I thought you were talking about Beethoven symphonies, in which case your numbers seem the most apt choices (coincidence?).


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Why does Bach have male-appeal? o3o I personally find both Handel and Mozart boring, but I love Bach.


Because his output on the whole satisfies the typically thought of male tendency to be logical and analytical maybe? You seem to listen for the more emotional aspects though, which Bach is most certainly not lacking. The question is, do you like his solo keyboard music and are you into any old cantata he wrote? Or do you find the works of his that hit you most quickly, the emotional gems? The first approach goes deeper into the logic of Bach and would be "a masculine" approach to Bach possibly. We could start calling him SBach then.

Sometimes, "yin and yang" is just a better way to approach this? Removes of the gender associations and gets right down to it.

Medtner is very yang and fairly complex but also relatively down to earth(in the modern scheme of things) , from what I gather. I like this way of thinking about music now... Probably going to start getting carried away soon.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> Yes, but you seem to like the lively flowers. Prokofiev must be some kind of venus fly trap.
> 
> I must admit a taste for the flowery.


:lol: Yeah! And Glazunov is a peony or other such extremely fragrant flower.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> :lol: Yeah! And Glazunov is a peony or other such extremely fragrant flower.


Medtner is a beautiful cactus? Maybe a rounder cactus.

Actually...a botanical one is only one perspective for approaching Medtner or any composer.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> :lol: Yeah! And Glazunov is a peony or other such extremely fragrant flower.


Um - peonies aren't fragrant. Am I missing some irony here?


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)

they like melodic soft music like clayderman, einaudi, uematsu, chopin, yiruma, yann teirsan, kyle landry.


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## Feathers (Feb 18, 2013)

LordBlackudder said:


> they like melodic soft music like clayderman, einaudi, uematsu, chopin, yiruma, yann teirsan, kyle landry.


Chopin seems kind of out of place in that list...

And who's "they"?


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> You should just start on about well-endowed male musicians  like Rachmaninov! You know what they say about guys with big hands...~
> 
> ...they can play really big chords on the piano o3o


Please stop typing like that.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

hello said:


> Please stop typing like that.


Oh, excuse me whilst I change my typing style at the request of some newbie who's never talked to me before :B


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Feathers said:


> Chopin seems kind of out of place in that list...
> 
> And who's "they"?


Chopin sits well with Uematsu


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

BurningDesire said:


> Oh, excuse me whilst I change my typing style at the request of some newbie who's never talked to me before :B


Wow, you've been here for a whole (almost) YEAR? You must really one of the top dogs around here.


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

jani said:


> It's halo so most of the players were 10-18 year olds, also i haven't noticed anykinda verbal abuse on this forum towards females, only very minor teasing now and then which is normal.


Agreed about TC. (And I'm happy to be identifiable by gender on here.)

I believe the Halo experiment was done on college students, only because most psychological experiments are done on college students as they are readily available to university researchers. I don't have the study in front of me though.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

hello said:


> Wow, you've been here for a whole (almost) YEAR? You must really one of the top dogs around here.


I'm not a dog :B


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> University studies of men & women having conversations have found that there are significant differences. Men interrupt more - argue more - contradict more. Women 'take turns' - agree more - comment favourably on others' contributions before making their own point. If men & women are both present & there are one or two 'dominant' men talking, women stay silent.
> From this I would extrapolate that more men join forums of any kind, where they are also more vocal. So women may listen to YouTube music but even if they have an account, not bother - or dare - to comment.
> Btw, I don't see women as 'timid' in these contexts but as 'sensible' & 'polite'.


What university studies ?


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

jani said:


> Not true, every man loves bacon!


Except some of the Jewish ones I suppose,not to mention the Muslim ones.


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## moody (Nov 5, 2011)

Taggart said:


> Is BurningDesire from Norfolk?
> 
> There are so many beautiful Broads here - Hemsby, Hickling, Barton, Breydon to name but a few.


Nobody from America is going to know what the heck you are on about.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

moody said:


> Nobody from America is going to know what the heck you are on about.


Come on, man. We all know Norfolk. Hugely important in the history of Virginia.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

hreichgott said:


> Agreed about TC. (And I'm happy to be identifiable by gender on here.)
> 
> I believe the Halo experiment was done on college students, only because most psychological experiments are done on college students as they are readily available to university researchers. I don't have the study in front of me though.


Also they're cheaper.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

hello said:


> Please stop typing like that.


Hello hello (sorry I can't resist a pun), but one of the forum's rules states clearly that you're not supposed to comment on another poster's posting style unless its unmistakably positive. It seems you've done this a few times so it's possible you're not aware of the rule, which is fine but you may want to not do it in the future.

Ok I'll take my mod cap off now. It suits me ill in any case :tiphat:


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

science said:


> Come on, man. We all know Norfolk. Hugely important in the history of Virginia.


I thought they meant Norfolk Island?

www.norfolkisland.com.au

The southwest Pacific Ocean is the place to be this year!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

All you other Norfolks are imitations. We have the true authentic & original Norfolk here, and we intend to hang on to it. 
It is full of large, beautiful, scintillating broads. 

Quite what this geographical fact has to do with the OP is a moot point...


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

MacLeod said:


> Slight thread drift coming up...
> 
> Is it only me that thinks numbers have a gender?
> 
> ...


Not to be at all salacious:
Treating numbers with the same sensibility of the hardware labeling of male / female as to connective piping, electric outlets, etc. 6, 8, 9, and 0 would be 'female', the remainder, 'male.'

But, yes, It is 'only you' as to personal and idiosyncratic associations with those numbers -- because 'you are unique,' LOL


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Ingenue said:


> All you other Norfolks are imitations. We have the true authentic & original Norfolk here, and we intend to hang on to it. It is full of large, beautiful, scintillating broads.


I request that you expand on that.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

KenOC said:


> I request that you expand on that.


How can I? I am absolutely *mesmerised* by your new avatar, KenOC. 
(Samuel Johnson .... swoon!  )


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hello said:


> Wow, you've been here for a whole (almost) YEAR? You must really one of the top dogs around here.


It really doesn't matter how long anyone has been here, being petty tyrannical enough to presume to 'ask' people to change their presentations does not bode well for any forum member, it makes them think, "This one does not play well with others."


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> Chopin sits well with Uematsu


Chopin would be appalled :-0


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## hello (Apr 5, 2013)

PetrB said:


> It really doesn't matter how long anyone has been here, being tyrannical enough to presume to 'ask' people to change their presentations does not bode well for any forum member, it makes them think, "This one does not play well with others."


Well, I'm sorry to say that I'm not sorry not to bode well with user "BurningDesire".


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## Guest (May 10, 2013)

hello said:


> Well, I'm sorry to say that I'm not sorry not to bode well with user "BurningDesire".


Well, you've certainly got a handle on the negatives in life!


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Chopin would be appalled :-0


I don't see why, Uematsu has composed some very beautiful pieces.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

PetrB said:


> Chopin would be appalled :-0


I don't think so. o3o


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