# Is Prokofiev your favourite composer?



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

My answer: Yes! I just listened to Emil Gilels version of his Sonata 8. Wow! Richter just didn't plumb the depths like Gilels did. Amazing voice leading.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Top 15 or 20..........................


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Somewhere in the 31-50 range.... Mainly on the strength of his concertos and Alexander Nevsky.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I don't really get these polls. Prokofiev is one of my favorite composers, but he's not my _absolute_ favorite.


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## BenG (Aug 28, 2018)

it's pretty much guaranteed that over 90 percent of votes will go to 'no he isn't'. Not because Prokofiev is bad, but because he's not USUALLY considered to be one of the 'greats'


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## Snazzy (Jun 8, 2020)

Not my absolute favourite, but certainly up there as one of my favourites. 

Now what?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

No, my favorite composer is Justin Beaver.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich are probably the greatest Russian composers to come out of the twentieth century. While I see Shostakovich as following more-so in the footsteps of Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff (or Mahler?), as being very soulful and brooding; I see Stravinsky and Prokofiev as more in line with so-called Neo-Classicism, creating things with balance and beauty. It's apt that Prokofiev composed the wonderful _Classical Symphony_ as a homage to happy Haydn, as I think that Prokofiev was the most optomistic and purely musical of the great Russian composers. Prokofiev was a very fine chess player, and I see his musical vision as very chess-like, in that the enjoyment in Prokfiev's music seems to be in the way Prokofiev creates something that is emotionally uncluttered, and seems to come together in a logical way.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Certainly one of my top 10 I'd say. One of the few composers whose music I've assembled the "complete works" of - at least for works that are available. There are things he wrote that have never been recorded. Prokofiev is one of a very small group of composers who wrote first-rate masterpieces in every genre he attempted: ballet, symphony, opera, chamber, solo piano, concerto, film, even music for children...extraordinary composer, although not for every one. I don't like everything he wrote, but then that's true of any composer.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

No. 15 or so. A uniformly excellent composer, with a masterpiece in every major genre.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I don't listen to Prokofiev that much. I don't have a problem with his music; I just don't listen to it that much. I guess I'm the outlier.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Sometimes? I don't have a list or get that hierarchical. Among my favorites for sure.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Top 10. I’ve been listening to Prokofiev for so long that I’d say “I was listening to Prokofiev before it was cool,” except that it’s always been cool. Still, I will someday delve more into his operas, which I barely know at all.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Simplicissimus said:


> I will someday delve more into his operas, which I barely know at all.


They're terrific - and getting hard to acquire. Gergiev did a bunch on Philips and the original releases had nice booklets with complete libretti. The boxed re-release didn't have those and I think essential. Some are available on DVD.


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## accmacmusic (May 9, 2020)

Of the 900, serious contender (maybe with Messiaen). Melodically speaking there are few as talented as he was (maybe Vivaldi).


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Phil loves classical said:


> *My answer: Yes!* I just listened to Emil Gilels version of his Sonata 8. Wow! Richter just didn't plumb the depths like Gilels did. Amazing voice leading.


But you need to vote. Else it look like he is nobody's favorite.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Phil loves classical said:


> Amazing voice leading.


Yes and this is often the case. Richter was more the sort of pianist who makes the melody the most important thing in the music.

Gilels also gets a sensational tone to come out of the piano.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Not my favorite - I probably don't have a favorite - but he did compose a few of my best-loved works. His bittersweet, haunted "Modernist Romanticism," expressed in unique melodies full of unexpected harmonic twists, sets him apart. I love his ballets and his violin and piano concertos in particular.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Not really my favorite, but I do enjoy, immensely so, his:

Opera "The Fiery Angel"
Opera "Love for Three Oranges"
Ivan the Terrible
Alexander Nevsky
Ballet "Cinderella"
Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution
Symphonies III & VII
Piano Concerto II
War Sonatas
Overture on Hebrew Themes


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Orfeo said:


> Not really my favorite, but I do enjoy, immensely so, his:
> 
> Opera "The Fiery Angel"
> Opera "Love for Three Oranges"
> ...


Also his opera, Betrothal in a Monastery.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

I've seen some of the operas - Fiery Angel and The Gambler sung in Russian at Covent Garden, and War and Peace in English at The Colesseum. Of the three I only enjoyed War and Peace.

I've also heard some of the symphonies, I thought 6 was interesting, and to a lesser extent 5.

I've also heard some of the concertos, and I remember liking a recording of the second with Georg Bolet.

I've seen two ballets, Cinderella and Romeo and Juliet, both Kirov productions I think, I enjoyed both. I'd like to see On the Dnieper, has anyone explored recordings?

Of the piano music, I'm very fond of Visions Fugitives, and the 9th sonata.

There's clearly a lot of lovely music.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Mandryka said:


> I'd like to see On the Dnieper, has anyone explored recordings?


This is about your only choice for On the Dnieper, and it's long out of print.









There was a Chandos disk 20 years back, but the asking price on Amazon is a shocker! Go with YouTube.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

For me, Prokofiev's most enjoyable music is found in the symphonies and piano concertos. Although I'm not a big fan of his piano sonatas, I love Visions fugitives.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Definitely in my top six!


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Orfeo said:


> Not really my favorite, but I do enjoy, immensely so, his:
> 
> Opera "The Fiery Angel"
> Opera "Love for Three Oranges"
> ...


I like Symphony No. 3, "The Fiery Angel," which I think draws heavily on the opera of the same name. I have actually never heard the opera. Maybe a Prokofiev opera thread will explore performances.


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## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

My overall favorite composer? No, he's not. I put him on my top 10 or 15.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

mbhaub said:


> This is about your only choice for On the Dnieper, and it's long out of print.
> 
> View attachment 137975
> 
> ...


Actually, that recording has been reissued a number of times and anyone with a remote interest in Rozhdestvensky's Prokofiev performances of the ballets would do well to check out this set:

https://www.amazon.com/Anniversary-Ministry-Culture-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B01C5PTU94/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Prokofiev+Ballets+Rozhdestvensky&qid=1592267670&s=music&sr=1-1

Also, there was a series on CPO with Vladimir Jurowski that conducted many of the ballets sans _Romeo & Juliet_.

Special edit: That Chandos recording you're referring to is with Polyansky and with all due respect to Polyansky, the Rozhdestvensky and Jurowski blow him out of the water.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I didn't know that the Melodiya set was released. What you can learn on this site. Thanks for the info.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

YES! YES!

[video]https://tenor.com/uEt1.gif[/video]


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

SixFootScowl said:


> Also his opera, Betrothal in a Monastery.


I got to revisit that opera. 
I have not heard it in years.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Simplicissimus said:


> I like Symphony No. 3, "The Fiery Angel," which I think draws heavily on the opera of the same name. I have actually never heard the opera. Maybe a Prokofiev opera thread will explore performances.


It does. Of all the recordings of The Fiery Angel, Gergiev's Philips recording reigns supreme.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> This is about your only choice for On the Dnieper, and it's long out of print.
> 
> View attachment 137975
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a disc worth seeking out as it contains the full works and not suites. I was lucky enough to snare a used copy in excellent condition for about five quid inc. p and p but that was some years back.

Another ballet recording to look out for is this:


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Coach G said:


> Prokofiev was a very fine chess player, and I see his musical vision as very chess-like, in that the enjoyment in Prokfiev's music seems to be in the way Prokofiev creates something that is emotionally uncluttered, and seems to come together in a logical way.


I love Haydn, and think Prokofiev great in a later idiom. Obviously I'm a genius too :lol:. However, I do think that some composers just seem "brilliant", in that the appeal of their music is so intellectual. Bach is top dog because he has that, and also so much emotional depth. Looking at Haydn and Prokofiev, the appeal is awareness of what they are doing - with unpredictability. And that is genius. Take Shostakovich - lots of emotion, but not the pure genius of Prokofiev. You get the feeling with composers like Haydn and Prokofiev that there is a meta-experience going on also, in that at all times they are aware of what they are doing, whereas with composers like Shostakovich they have produced deeply felt music but the sense of irony that arises from always being aware of what they are up to is not there. That means a loss of depth in Shostakovich, relative to Prokofiev, in that the latter manages to produce great music while simultaneously being aware that it is "just music", whereas Shostakovich doesn't quite have the resultant balance which follows from that awareness.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Interesting perspective EA. But a lot can be understood by the basic differences in their two personalities. Prokofiev was supremely self-assured, confident of his abilities, and certain of equality with and likely superiority to his "rivals". Caustic, egomaniacal at times, downright nasty when the mood struck him. And an unstoppable engine for work. These were not the obvious traits of Shostakovich. One thing has struck me, though, and that is the utter absence of contact or commentary between Prokofiev and Bartok--I think Prokofiev may have felt that in Bela Bartok he would find someone as refractory as himself.


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## Vasks (Dec 9, 2013)

It was easy for me to answer "NO" because he wrote plenty of pieces that just don't click. 

His masterpieces are sensational, but there's lots of dreck.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Orfeo said:


> I got to revisit that opera.
> I have not heard it in years.


I watched this wonderful DVD of it with Anna Netrebko.


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## Eclectic Al (Apr 23, 2020)

Strange Magic said:


> Interesting perspective EA. But a lot can be understood by the basic differences in their two personalities. Prokofiev was supremely self-assured, confident of his abilities, and certain of equality with and likely superiority to his "rivals". Caustic, egomaniacal at times, downright nasty when the mood struck him. And an unstoppable engine for work. These were not the obvious traits of Shostakovich. One thing has struck me, though, and that is the utter absence of contact or commentary between Prokofiev and Bartok--I think Prokofiev may have felt that in Bela Bartok he would find someone as refractory as himself.


Ah Bartok. I don't really like lists, but if there was a list of top 20th century composers I don't know who would be ahead of Bela.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Eclectic Al said:


> Ah Bartok. I don't really like lists, but if there was a list of top 20th century composers I don't know who would be ahead of Bela.


I think polling would reveal a tightly-bunched group including Bartok, Stravinsky, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev. But that may be opening a Pandora's box, or can of worms...


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Eclectic Al said:


> I love Haydn, and think Prokofiev great in a later idiom. Obviously I'm a genius too :lol:. However, I do think that some composers just seem "brilliant", in that the appeal of their music is so intellectual. Bach is top dog because he has that, and also so much emotional depth. Looking at Haydn and Prokofiev, the appeal is awareness of what they are doing - with unpredictability. And that is genius. Take Shostakovich - lots of emotion, but not the pure genius of Prokofiev. You get the feeling with composers like Haydn and Prokofiev that there is a meta-experience going on also, in that at all times they are aware of what they are doing, whereas with composers like Shostakovich they have produced deeply felt music but the sense of irony that arises from always being aware of what they are up to is not there. That means a loss of depth in Shostakovich, relative to Prokofiev, in that the latter manages to produce great music while simultaneously being aware that it is "just music", whereas Shostakovich doesn't quite have the resultant balance which follows from that awareness.


It's unfortunate that you feel the urge to disparage one great composer in order to praise another.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

He's not my favorite, but probably close to the top. _Alexander Nevsky _is one of my absolute favorite pieces!  Maybe I'd put him at 5th or so, but I'd need to hear more of his music such as his operas.

There was a clip of _The Fiery Angel _on YouTube, but when I clicked on it, it said "18+". So I didn't watch it. But my goodness, 18+? Yikes!  What's in it!?


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

adriesba said:


> There was a clip of _The Fiery Angel _on YouTube, but when I clicked on it, it said "18+". So I didn't watch it. But my goodness, 18+? Yikes!  What's in it!?


Well it's a hell of an opera - the story is often described with adjectives such as lurid, sordid, distasteful. But Prokofiev was actually a a very conservative man in many respects - he was a devout Seventh Day Adventist. The problem is modern stagings - aka Eurotrash - which included nudity and graphic sexual acts on stage. Hence the 18+ warning. I was so looking forward to the Met's production coming up this fall - cancelled of course. But I like these less -than-savory operas. Gergiev is brilliant.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> Well it's a hell of an opera - the story is often described with adjectives such as lurid, sordid, distasteful. But Prokofiev was actually a a very conservative man in many respects - he was a devout Seventh Day Adventist. The problem is modern stagings - aka Eurotrash - which included nudity and graphic sexual acts on stage. Hence the 18+ warning. I was so looking forward to the Met's production coming up this fall - cancelled of course. But I like these less -than-savory operas. Gergiev is brilliant.


I'm guessing that clip on YouTube was probably from such a Regietheater production. The story sounds crazy, but I don't remember reading about anything warranting an 18+ label in the synopsis.

Prokofiev was Seventh Day Adventist? I thought I read that he was a member of Christian Science. Then I also thought I read that he wasn't religious. Any sources I can read up on this?


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Prokofiev is tied with Glazunov for favorite composer, so some days it's a yes? 

Yes Prokofiev was a Christian Scientist, he and Lina converted in 1924 iirc. Before then he wasn't religious though he was never atheist.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

I find his harmonic language often irritating for reasons I can't quite place, especially in the symphonies. It's craggy. But there are some works of Prokofiev's I do love such as the cello concertos. So a composer I will listen to, but not a favourite, no.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Prokofiev is tied with Glazunov for favorite composer, so some days it's a yet?
> 
> Yes Prokofiev was a Christian Scientist, he and Lina converted in 1924 iirc. Before then he wasn't religious though he was never atheist.


To what extent Prokofiev was a man of faith intrigues me. He certainly doesn't seem to express whatever faith he may have had in his music; the way that Bach or Bruckner did. Nor did he seem to apply his Christian identity to living his life as a good person. Didn't Shostakovich once say that Prokofiev has the "soul of a goose"? I wonder if his interest in Christian Science was more-or-less psychological, as in the power of positive thinking.

After Prokofiev returned to the Soviet Union he seemed to face the same artistic barriers imposed by totalitarianism that Shostakovich, Kabalevsky, Khachaturian, and others faced, and yet, unlike Shostakovich, it's not very much reflected in his output.

It may be that Prokofiev was very pragmatic and narcissist in his approach towards life. He used religion for what he could get out of it. He based his return to the Soviet Union for what he could get out of it. Like most narcissistic men do, he eventually traded in his wife for a younger model.

Along this line, it sems that Prokofiev has a way of compartmentalizing the various aspects of his life. His religion, his relationships, his music, his relationship to the totalitarian regime, (chess?), all seem to exist apart from one another.

Great music, though. The _Piano Concertos #1 and #3_; The two _Violin Concertos_; _Symphonies # 1 "Classical Symphony" and #5_; _Alexander Nevsky_; _Ivan the Terrible_, _Lieutenant Kije Suite_, _Cinderella_, and _Romeo and Julliet_; are all wonderful works. Stravinsky said that Prokofiev was the greatest living composer apart from himself.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Eclectic Al said:


> I love Haydn, and think Prokofiev great in a later idiom. Obviously I'm a genius too :lol:. However, I do think that some composers just seem "brilliant", in that the appeal of their music is so intellectual. Bach is top dog because he has that, and also so much emotional depth. Looking at Haydn and Prokofiev, the appeal is awareness of what they are doing - with unpredictability. And that is genius. Take Shostakovich - lots of emotion, but not the pure genius of Prokofiev. You get the feeling with composers like Haydn and Prokofiev that there is a meta-experience going on also, in that at all times they are aware of what they are doing, whereas with composers like Shostakovich they have produced deeply felt music but the sense of irony that arises from always being aware of what they are up to is not there. That means a loss of depth in Shostakovich, relative to Prokofiev, in that the latter manages to produce great music while simultaneously being aware that it is "just music", whereas Shostakovich doesn't quite have the resultant balance which follows from that awareness.


I like Shostakovich more than I like Prokofiev. Prokofiev could compose melodies much better than Shostakovich and he was three times the craftsman that Shostakovich was. Shostakovich is more rambling, less melodic, and the undercurrent of anxiety, depression and biting sarcasm, anger, in Shostakovich doesn't always make Shostakovich a pleasant listen. When I listen to Shostakovich though, I feel as though the composer has more to say. Shostakovich has a very strong personality, a lot of heart, sad, Russian soulfulness along the lines of Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, and Rachmaninoff. Then there's the influence that Mahler had on Shostakovich.

When I listen to Prokofiev, I say to myself, "Wow, it's really neat how he made the sparks fly in the _Violin Concerto #1_, really neat how he made the dream sequence in _Cinderella_ sound like a dream; or it's beautiful how he could write the _Classical Symphony_ in the style of Haydn but still make it sound like his own. When I listen to Shostakovich, on the other hand, there always seems to be new things to discover or contemplate even in works I've heard over and over again for decades.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I find Prokofiev's music, especially bits of the piano concertos, breathes a Russian atmosphere of a different sort than, say, Tchaikovsky's. It's more of a Russian "steppe" feeling of wind, space, air--a bit closer to the Khachaturian of Gayane. The magic of Russian composers, though, is that they each bring their version of a vision of musical Mother Russia to the table, whether Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, The Five, even dour old Glazunov, whoever.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I find Prokofiev's music, especially bits of the piano concertos, breathes a Russian atmosphere of a different sort than, say, Tchaikovsky's. It's more of a Russian "steppe" feeling of wind, space, air--a bit closer to the Khachaturian of Gayane. The magic of Russian composers, though, is that they each bring their version of a vision of musical Mother Russia to the table, whether Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, The Five, even dour old Glazunov, whoever.


Glazunov dour?
I should give his lovely The Seasons or his Fourth Symphony or his Piano Concerto II another listen.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

2 Prokofiev works that I enjoy are "Le Pas D'Acier (the Steel Step) and "Chout"(The Buffoon)....the former, Prokofiev's entry into the the "5 Year Plan", industrial strength scores (think - Mossolov - Iron Foundry), the latter, P's response to "Petrushka"...I have these both with Rozh'sky/USSR Humongous StateSO in one form or another.....
For "Chout" make sure to get the suite, rec '62.....wonderful!! (There is a complete ballet recording, but the sound is distant, and terrible, the playing uninspired)..with the '62 Suite, The Russians are really into the comedy and sarcasm of the ballet - deliciously reedy, quacky 2ble Reeds much in evidence....this Chout's a hoot!! (Sorry!!)


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Orfeo said:


> Glazunov dour?
> I should give his lovely The Seasons or his Fourth Symphony or his Piano Concerto II another listen.


I shall do that. I was thinking more of the clearly non-dour Glazunov of _Stenka Razin_.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

To me, Prokofiev has melodic gifts that put him on the same level as Mozart, Tchaikovsky, and Gershwin. Harmonically, He has the soul of a modernist but with the blood of a romantic. He likes to add "wrong" notes to his chords that make the music have a little edge and a lot more personality.

And when it comes to soul - Symphony no. 6 bleeds soul. Piano Concerto no. 2 has moments of extreme pathos and was written in some ways as an homage to a friend who had recently died. Violin Concerto No. 1, first movement, is fragile, tender. Then you have works like Symphony No. 3 which feels like music for the Apocalypse. Oh yes, I am just getting warmed up. The 3 war-time sonatas are each masterpieces and stand up to repeated listenings. THEY DO NOT GET OLD. Visions Fugitives is mesmerizing. Betrothal in a Monastery, the opera, is delightful and funny. Peter and the Wolf, as a child, captured my imagination and I couldn't get enough of that world. Romeo and Juliet, the ballet is filled with so much wonderful music that it is almost a crime that one person was given so much talent. And then you have some lesser known works like the Pushkin Waltz or the ballet - the Prodigal Son.

His music has always spoken to me and I didn't realize what a genius he is until I started to listen to EVERYTHING he wrote. The quality of his output is high and quite consistent. Did he write some weaker works? Yes but they are in the minority. I think any composer would be happy with the overall strength of his oevre.

*12 Recordings I Strongly Recommend:*

--Symphony no. 3 with Ricardo Muti and the Philadelphia Orchestra (fiery! (no pun intended))

--Symphony no. 5 with James Levine and the Chicago Symphony (the only recording I know that makes this iconic piece sound fresh and spontaneous)

--Symphony no. 6 with Neeme Jarvi and the Scottish National Orchestra

--Piano Sonata no. 4 with Barbara Nissman (she sings through the piano and brings out all the murky warmth of this piece)

--Piano Sonata no. 7 with Maurizio Pollini (perfection in composition and performance)

--Violin Concerto no. 1 with Shlomo Mintz (gentleness and fragility)

--Piano Concerto no. 2 with Horacio Gutierrez

--Betrothal in a Monastery with Gergiev, conducting and Netrebko, soprano

--Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution, Neeme Jarvi, conducting- weird, bold, scary, beautiful. Sirens, accordion, propaganda speaker parts, purposely unbalanced instrumentation, but WOW! what a piece of music!!!

--Visions Fugitives with Frederic Chiu

--Lieutenant Kije with Chicago/Reiner

and last but not least, if you like Peter and the Wolf AND stop-motion animation, then you simply have to check out this version directed by Suzie Templeton:


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Strange Magic said:


> I find Prokofiev's music, especially bits of the piano concertos, breathes a Russian atmosphere of a different sort than, say, Tchaikovsky's. It's more of a Russian "steppe" feeling of wind, space, air--a bit closer to the Khachaturian of Gayane. The magic of Russian composers, though, is that they each bring their version of a vision of musical Mother Russia to the table, whether Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, The Five, even dour old Glazunov, whoever.


Although Rachmaninoff's not my favorite Russian composer, his music always feels the most Russian to me. I'm not sure why I'd even get such an impression... maybe it's his personality.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Ethereality said:


> Although Rachmaninoff's not my favorite Russian composer, his music always feels the most Russian to me. I'm not sure why I'd even get such an impression... maybe it's his personality.


I think a lot of the Russian melancholia that many hear in Rachmaninoff is enhanced by the image of him as the Exile, driven from the Mother Russia of the vast estates, the balls, the aristocracy, the theater--the whole Tolstoyan world--all swept away by the Revolution. So there he is, a tall, gaunt figure, dark, gloomy, with closely-cropped hair almost like a penitent. Sometimes he is briefly able to laugh, perhaps with another exile like Chaliapin. But then the consciousness of the world that is lost returns.....


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Coach G said:


> I like Shostakovich more than I like Prokofiev. Prokofiev could compose melodies much better than Shostakovich and he was three times the craftsman that Shostakovich was.


In what ways do you believe Prokofiev to be "three times the craftsman that Shostakovich was?" What aspects of Shostakovich's writing are so egregiously inferior?


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I know there was some friction between Prokofiev and Shostakovich. Not a lot of love between them. I can't ever say that Shostakovich was an inferior composer though his music doesn't speak to me as much or have as much of a melodic gift.


Side note: I can't readily cite evidence for this but I think the frostiness between the two originated from Prokofiev. He didn't seem to be a real chummy fellow and probably resented Shostakovich stealing some of his limelight.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I'd say Prokofiev clearly has the edge in his piano music, while Shostakovich has the edge in string quartets and symphonies. Even in his smaller output I don't think Prokofiev was as consistent as Shostakovich in the symphonies.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Phil loves classical said:


> I'd say Prokofiev clearly has the edge in his piano music, while Shostakovich has the edge in string quartets and symphonies. Even in his smaller output I don't think Prokofiev was as consistent as Shostakovich in the symphonies.


Yes Shostakovich clearly wins the string quartet battle and I agree that Prokofiev wins the solo piano battle. But while Shostakovich was more consistent in the quality of his symphonies, I personally don't think he hit the peaks that Prokofiev did with a few of his symphonies.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Different styles in my opinion. I feel Prokofiev was more exotic and impulsive (which I prefer), and Shostakovich was more scrupulous.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

EdwardBast said:


> In what ways do you believe Prokofiev to be "three times the craftsman that Shostakovich was?" What aspects of Shostakovich's writing are so egregiously inferior?


I said that Prokofiev was a much better craftsman than Shostakovich in that his product is more tight and effecient. Prokofiev's _Classical Symphony_ and _Violin Concerto #1_ don't seem to waste a note. I never said that Shostakovich egregious or inferior. In fact, I said I like Shostakovich more than Prokofiev. Shostakovich's 5th symphony is a masterpiece. The 4th, 7th, 8th, 10th and 11th are also great but like Mahler or Bruckner they rattle on a bit. That being said, Shostakovich, to me, thought bigger than Prokofiev. Shostakovich had a bigger musical vision that like Tchaikovsky is very personal and emotional, and like Mussorgsky or Rimsky-Korsakov embraced the whole of the Russian people. Maybe I'm I'm wrong to think so, or maybe I should have just said that Prokofiev was the better craftsman, not the better X 3.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

I don't know who was a greater composer, Shostakovich or Prokofiev?? They were both 20th century giants....personally, I slightly favor Shostakovich, but that's just my own opinion... Shostakovich, Stravinsky and Prokofiev are three of the greatest of composers of all time, and certainly the 20th century Russian giants.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

They were both hugely gifted no doubt. But their world views were so different. Prokofiev grew up in Imperial Russia, in pampered circumstances. He traveled the world and saw all the opportunity it had to offer. His music is much more cosmopolitan, even frivolous. It is more cerebral, less grounded in the soil of mother Russia and rarely probes deeper, angrier emotions. He was a dandy, even in tough war times in the USSR. And very much childlike. Only later did he start to write dark and angry music - the war sonatas are prime examples.

Shostakovich came of age when the Soviet Union did and he never knew the offerings of the West. He was always under the thumb of the authorities. The sarcasm, anger, even fear heard in his music is no doubt a manifestation of his life. But he was scared - with good reason. He kept his darkest musical thoughts to himself and buried them in the string quartets. With the much more public symphonies he had to put on the brave face and that's why there are so many pages of bombast leading to nothing. He could write just as good a tune as Prokofiev, was probably a better orchestrator. How he accomplished so much in the face of unending adversity is astonishing. But then as he said, "I was a good Soviet." It's really unfortunate that both lived in such a regressive, secretive place. We'll likely never know the full truth of their lives. There are several long biographies on Prokofiev that differ in many details - who knows what's true? With Shostakovich the situation is even worse. There still isn't a first-rate biography that isn't damaged by so much government interference, and can we ever fully trust Volkov?


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> They were both hugely gifted no doubt. But their world views were so different. Prokofiev grew up in Imperial Russia, in pampered circumstances. He traveled the world and saw all the opportunity it had to offer. His music is much more cosmopolitan, even frivolous. It is more cerebral, less grounded in the soil of mother Russia and rarely probes deeper, angrier emotions. He was a dandy, even in tough war times in the USSR. And very much childlike. Only later did he start to write dark and angry music - the war sonatas are prime examples.
> 
> *Shostakovich came of age when the Soviet Union did and he never knew the offerings of the West. He was always under the thumb of the authorities. The sarcasm, anger, even fear heard in his music is no doubt a manifestation of his life. But he was scared - with good reason. He kept his darkest musical thoughts to himself and buried them in the string quartets.* With the much more public symphonies he had to put on the brave face and that's why there are so many pages of bombast leading to nothing. He could write just as good a tune as Prokofiev, was probably a better orchestrator. How he accomplished so much in the face of unending adversity is astonishing. But then as he said, "I was a good Soviet." It's really unfortunate that both lived in such a regressive, secretive place. We'll likely never know the full truth of their lives. There are several long biographies on Prokofiev that differ in many details - who knows what's true? With Shostakovich the situation is even worse. There still isn't a first-rate biography that isn't damaged by so much government interference, and can we ever fully trust Volkov?


In Shostakovich's opera _Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk_, he sure lets loose some pretty dark stuff. That's when Stalin denounced him. Of course, Stalin was denouncing everyone. Sooner or later it was inevitable that everyone, including Stalin's own lackies, needed to be denounced just because he was Stalin and that was a mechanism to keep everyone in a state of fear and obedience. Even so, if Shostakovich had continued along the lines of _Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk_ there's no telling to what extent Shostakovich would have developed into a very different kind of artist. The irony to me is that most of what we like about Shostakovich is post-_Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk_, after Stalin had made him tow the line.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The question--if it is a question--is which of the two composers' music would one choose as one's sole listening on the desert island? For me, it would be Prokofiev's, without need for long thought about it. The combination of breadth and relative "health" would wear better over the decades, in my case.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Strange Magic said:


> The question--if it is a question--is which of the two composers' music would one choose as one's sole listening on the desert island? For me, it would be Prokofiev's, without need for long thought about it. The combination of breadth and relative "health" would wear better over the decades, in my case.


Absolutely! Shostakovich is too depressing, on the whole.


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> How he accomplished so much in the face of unending adversity is astonishing.


maybe because there was no 'unending adversity' whatsoever?



mbhaub said:


> It's really unfortunate that both lived in such a regressive, secretive place.


i was born and lived in Soviet Union and i don't remember anything of the sort.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Coach G said:


> In Shostakovich's opera _Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk_, he sure lets loose some pretty dark stuff. That's when Stalin denounced him.....The irony to me is that most of what we like about Shostakovich is post-_Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk_, after Stalin had made him tow the line.


I love the early Shostakovich works...the big ballets - Age of Au, The Bolt, Limpid Stream...and the film music... New Babylon, Alone, etc...Lady Macbeth is wonderful...tho brutal and violent...such that it offended the delicate sensibilities of Comrade Stalin (an homicidal monster noted for his "delicate sensibilities" 《eye rollage》)....
Of the 3 Russian greats - Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, DS is the one who remained in Russia, and lived thru its tortured and turbulent history of that time....what other nations suffered such violence, upheaval and misery as 20th Century Russia?? Poland, China perhaps??....the First World War, the Revolution, the Civil War, Stalinism, the terrible ordeal of WWII (Great Patriotic War), the Cold War.....gawd, what a cavalcade of agony and suffering....
I think Shostakovich's music reflects this experience, maybe not so much in direct programmatic expressions, but in a general expressive and dramatic approach. It is esp apparent in his post-Lady Macbeth works. The earlier works are colorful, flashy, flamboyant, brilliantly orchestrated....gallops, marches waltzes abound....bright, spirited....after Lady M, things take on a darker hue....the marches are the crushing brutality of mechanized warfare, the "gallops" frantic, tortured eruptions of crazed frenzy....
It would be impossible for one composer to express the entire Russian experience of the 20th century....but Shostakovich certainly gives us substantial taste....


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Zhdanov said:


> maybe because there was no 'unending adversity' whatsoever?
> 
> i was born and lived in Soviet Union and i don't remember anything of the sort.


Well I don't know how old you are, but the '40s were pretty terrifying for anyone who didn't tow the party line. Read Robinson's bio of Prokofiev or Volkov's Shostakovich and Stalin. Then read a bio of Stalin. Pretty damned horrible, I'd say. Shostakovich lived in fear of the KGB dropping in and taking him away never to been seen, or heard, again.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I'm not sure _how_ this thread turned into a Prokofiev vs. Shostakovich discussion, because, quite frankly, I think both composers were each extraordinary in their individual way. Shostakovich is my favorite between the two of them, but both composers have oeuvres that are incredible and definitely worth a listener's time, especially a listener who wants to explore 20th Century Russian music. In fact, if you wanted to explore this area of 20th Century history, they're quite simply difficult to ignore.


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## Superflumina (Jun 19, 2020)

Prokofiev's not my all time favorite but he'd be in my top 5 Russian composers if I had to make a list. Mussorgsky, Scriabin and Stravinsky are up there. One of Rachmaninov, Borodin and Rimsky-Korsakov would be there too. Lets just say that there's a lot of great Russian composers!


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## Zhdanov (Feb 16, 2016)

mbhaub said:


> Well I don't know how old you are,


i'm 49.



mbhaub said:


> Read Robinson's bio of Prokofiev or Volkov's Shostakovich and Stalin. Then read a bio of Stalin. Pretty damned horrible, I'd say. Shostakovich lived in fear of the KGB dropping in and taking him away never to been seen, or heard, again.


anyone can write anything for any purpose, especially when it comes to defaming someone.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2020)

Phil loves classical said:


> My answer: Yes!


At the moment, yes! Currently obsessing over his 6th Symphony. Of those symphonists with whom I am most familiar, Prokofiev does more fun than any other. Some of his writing is pure 'comedy gold' - not dissimilar to some of Beethoven's earlier works, until he got all serious.

Just watched the third movement of this...horns still just a touch too muted for my liking, and the sound is uneven, but they still seem to enjoy it (the orchestra, that is, the audience is slow to applaud.)


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

MacLeod said:


> Just watched the third movement of this...horns still just a touch too muted for my liking, and the sound is uneven, but they still seem to enjoy it (the orchestra, that is, the audience is slow to applaud.)


It is nice but maybe sounds a little too smooth around the edges for this work? I think this version by Gergiev seems closer to capturing the mood of the piece. Sondergard's recording makes it sound like more like French music or something? To my ears anyway.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Another data point about Prokofiev to consider: he contributed more music to the standard repertoire than any other 20th composer. Has any 20th c work been recorded, or played, more than Peter and the Wolf? We won't count Alice Cooper's version.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2020)

tdc said:


> It is nice but maybe sounds a little too smooth around the edges for this work? I think this version by Gergiev seems closer to capturing the mood of the piece. Sondergard's recording makes it sound like more like French music or something? To my ears anyway.


I wonder if it shouldn't sound if more...barbaric, or raucous, at least. The Rozhdestvensky is more like that. I didn't like it at first, but it has merit.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

MacLeod said:


> I wonder if it shouldn't sound if more...barbaric, or raucous, at least. The Rozhdestvensky is more like that. I didn't like it at first, but it has merit.


For Prokofiev Sym #6 - 3 favorites:

Mravinsky/LenPO (Praga '67)
Ormandy/PhiladelphiaOrch
Rozh'sky/Moscow RadioSO
All very excellent...


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Heck148 said:


> For Prokofiev Sym #6 - 3 favorites:
> 
> Mravinsky/LenPO (Praga '67)
> Ormandy/PhiladelphiaOrch
> ...


you don't like the Jarvi recording?


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

20centrfuge said:


> you don't like the Jarvi recording?


I have Jarvi's recording with RSNO on Chandos....i don't "not like" it. sound quality is excellent, orchestra playing is good....but Jarvi's conducting is really bland, straight, almost pedestrian, relative to the aforementioned favorites...it's ok, and the sound is excellent, but Mravinsky, Ormandy, Rozh'sky get much more out of the score.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

I'm with Heck here. All the ones he mentioned are great. I also liked Mravinsky's studio version. Ormandy seems to be underrated in the CD guides I've seen as a conductor in general. I've read from Svejda or somewhere that Jarvi is better with lesser known repertoire. It seems he kind of does the canonized stuff just because he has to.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I'll check em out. I have to admit that I basically grew up with the Jarvi recording and have always loved it. But I'll have to visit those others.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> I have Jarvi's recording with RSNO on Chandos....i don't "not like" it. sound quality is excellent, orchestra playing is good....but Jarvi's conducting is really bland, straight, almost pedestrian, relative to the aforementioned favorites...it's ok, and the sound is excellent, but Mravinsky, Ormandy, Rozh'sky get much more out of the score.


That's pretty much my reaction to everything Neeme Jarvi did. I appreciate that he played such an instrumental role in recording obscure repertoire, but I find his conducting almost universally boring. I do like the hearty Scottish brass on his Prokofiev recordings but prefer Gergiev's cycle for the more characterful Russian spirit.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm surprised by these negative opinions of Jarvi. I've liked most things that I have heard. Even the ones I haven't really embraced, like Symphony no. 2, I wouldn't characterize as boring.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm surprised by these negative opinions of Jarvi. I've liked most things that I have heard. Even the ones I haven't really embraced, like Symphony no. 2, I wouldn't characterize as boring.


I'm with you. I think Järvi is great conductor and, while it's true that not all the repertoire he chose to conduct is first-rate or his even interpretations were first-rate, but his Prokofiev is outstanding. I wouldn't want to be without Rozhdestvensky's Prokofiev either.

I'm kind of surprised to see the affection some members have for Gergiev's Prokofiev recordings. I thought his best recording was _Alexander Nevsky_ coupled with _Scythian Suite_. I wish Gergiev had recorded his earlier LSO cycle with the Kirov Orchestra instead of the LSO. Gergiev's later recordings of Prokofiev with the Mariinsky have been hit/miss. I really should revisit those earlier Gergiev recordings as I don't want to write him off completely.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

20centrfuge said:


> I'm surprised by these negative opinions of Jarvi. I've liked most things that I have heard. Even the ones I haven't really embraced, like Symphony no. 2, I wouldn't characterize as boring.


I liked Jarvi's version of Symphony 2, and feel his smoother approach worked well there, since that work is so harsh, that his way is more welcome.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> I liked Jarvi's version of Symphony 2, and feel his smoother approach worked well there, since that work is so harsh, that his way is more welcome.


You have a point there!! Rozh'sky's Moscow version of #2 is pretty raw!!

For Sym #3 - again - Jarvi benefits from excellent recorded sound from Chandos, and good playing from his orchestra - but, for me, it simply is not competitive with the really high octane versions of this difficult symphony:

Rozh'sky/USSRLarge WhateverSO - pretty raucous!! my long-time favorite
Kondrashin/Chicago - live '76 [CSO Archival Set CSO in 20th Century] - equally raucous where necessary, plus Kondrashin really brings out the spooky, creepy aspects of the score - which is consistent with the whole "Fiery Angel" opera scenario
...wouldn't want to be without either.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I collect a lot of Prokofiev symphony sets: Gergiev, Martinon, Weller, Ozawa, Rostropovich, Kitajenko, Kosler, Petrenko...but even all these years later I still think the best overall set is Jarvi on Chandos. Superb playing, recording and conducting! The 5th is one of the truly great ones. He's not boring at all. He's been called glib, too. What he is is a conductor who respects the composer and the score and plays it directly with little intervention or micromanaging. It is about time that Chandos puts all of his Prokofiev together in one budget box. Orfeo has finally released his Glazunov set in a low-priced box. 

I keep hoping that Andrew Litton will finish his cycle on Bis. 4-7 have been terrific.

The Gergiev symphonies are pretty good, if you can get past his humming and snorting, so well captured on the recordings. And the sound isn't all that it could have, should have been. But that's the Barbican for you.


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

mbhaub said:


> The Gergiev symphonies are pretty good, if you can get past his humming and snorting, so well captured on the recordings. And the sound isn't all that it could have, should have been. But that's the Barbican for you.


Humming and snorting? So that actually happens? I've thought I've heard such sounds on recordings with other conductors, but always dismissed the idea that it could actually be sounds from the conductor.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

adriesba said:


> Humming and snorting? So that actually happens? I've thought I've heard such sounds on recordings with other conductors, but always dismissed the idea that it could actually be sounds from the conductor.


You've never heard a Colin Davis LSO Live recording have you?


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## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Neo Romanza said:


> You've never heard a Colin Davis LSO Live recording have you?


Nope! :lol: 
I thought I heard Barenboim humming in a recording.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> plays it directly with little intervention or micromanaging


I guess this is what I consider "bland." Different strokes.


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## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

I think Prokofiev would be somewhere in the 200-300 range in terms of my favourite composers. So I do like him a lot, and I like his music more than most of his contemporary soviet composers, but there are still a bunch I like more overall.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Lilijana said:


> I think Prokofiev would be somewhere in the 200-300 range in terms of my favourite composers. So I do like him a lot, and I like his music more than most of his contemporary soviet composers, but there are still a bunch I like more overall.


So there are 200-300 composers you like more than him? That sounds like you don't like him at all.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

20centrfuge said:


> So there are 200-300 composers you like more than him? That sounds like you don't like him at all.


If you and I love Prokofiev, forget what the other people say.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I have to tease you Lilijana:

'yah, I like Prokofiev a lot. He is my 267th favorite -- right after *Wolff Jakob Lauffensteiner* and before *Laura Netzel*.'

:lol:


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

No, but he's a great composer anyway.


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## Lilijana (Dec 17, 2019)

20centrfuge said:


> So there are 200-300 composers you like more than him? That sounds like you don't like him at all.


There's nothing difficult about liking a composer's music as well as liking a bunch of other composers' music more.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Lilijana said:


> There's nothing difficult about liking a composer's music as well as liking a bunch of other composers' music more.


I agree. Don't worry. I was just teasing you. Peace!


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## leonsm (Jan 15, 2011)

Top 6-8 composers for sure


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

consuono said:


> No, but he's a great composer anyway.


Whose your favorite then?


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

Rogerx said:


> Whose your favorite then?


Stockhausen. (Just kidding.)


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> For Prokofiev Sym #6 - 3 favorites:
> 
> Mravinsky/LenPO (Praga '67)
> Ormandy/PhiladelphiaOrch
> ...


Thanks. I'll try the Ormandy first as I've not heard any of his recordings of anything!



Heck148 said:


> I have Jarvi's recording with RSNO on Chandos....i don't "not like" it. sound quality is excellent,





Heck148 said:


> For Sym #3 - again - Jarvi benefits from excellent recorded sound from Chandos


Odd. I have the Jarvi, and have become familiar with Prokofiev's symphonies because of it. But I find the recording...as if recorded in a large draughty hall with echoey acoustics. It's the main reason I'm trying to find others. I've just bought the Bournemouth Sym with Kirill Karabits. I think the recording's better, but there doesn't seem to be much difference in the interpretation.


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## Mifek (Jul 28, 2018)

There are only four composers I like more than Prokofiev and these are Chopin, Bach, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Somewhere between number 20 and 50 in my pantheon of composers.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

No, he isn't, next question .


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

No. 14 in my survey; I don't like him that much and prefer many lesser lights ahead of him.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

accmacmusic said:


> Of the 900, serious contender (maybe with Messiaen). Melodically speaking there are few as talented as he was (maybe Vivaldi).


Right, I also don't really get the "favorite" thing but of the many magnificent qualities of his music, his way with a melody is not to be bettered, and I think that some people let the spike and sass (and musical rasberries) of his harmonies get in the way. Lieutenant Kije, the death scene from Romeo and Juliet, the eigth sonata, 2ne and 3rd piano concerti..on and on. That Romeo and Juliet music is overwhelming, Peter and the Wolf whistleable!!


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> I have to tease you Lilijana:
> 
> 'yah, I like Prokofiev a lot. He is my 267th favorite -- right after *Wolff Jakob Lauffensteiner* and before *Laura Netzel*.'
> 
> :lol:


In this context you are very likely to be besieged by Laura Netzel aficionados who will make it clear that you don't understand the historical superiority of her work, the historical superiority of recordings on bark cylinders and your tin ear and inability to acknowledge what is already established truth. Just sayin'.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> They were both hugely gifted no doubt. But their world views were so different. Prokofiev grew up in Imperial Russia, in pampered circumstances. He traveled the world and saw all the opportunity it had to offer. His music is much more cosmopolitan, even frivolous. It is more cerebral, less grounded in the soil of mother Russia and rarely probes deeper, angrier emotions. He was a dandy, even in tough war times in the USSR. And very much childlike. Only later did he start to write dark and angry music - the war sonatas are prime examples.
> 
> Shostakovich came of age when the Soviet Union did and he never knew the offerings of the West. He was always under the thumb of the authorities. The sarcasm, anger, even fear heard in his music is no doubt a manifestation of his life. But he was scared - with good reason. He kept his darkest musical thoughts to himself and buried them in the string quartets. With the much more public symphonies he had to put on the brave face and that's why there are so many pages of bombast leading to nothing. He could write just as good a tune as Prokofiev, was probably a better orchestrator. How he accomplished so much in the face of unending adversity is astonishing. But then as he said, "I was a good Soviet." It's really unfortunate that both lived in such a regressive, secretive place. We'll likely never know the full truth of their lives. There are several long biographies on Prokofiev that differ in many details - who knows what's true? With Shostakovich the situation is even worse. There still isn't a first-rate biography that isn't damaged by so much government interference, and can we ever fully trust Volkov?


Wow. I think Prokofiev is nothing but the deeper emotions. If pampered includes escaping revolutionary Russia to the EAST, then through Japan to the US to establish a career as a refugee (and he went to NYC and Chicago, not LA), then his career in France, god keep me from pampering. There probably is a class aspect and emotional aloofness associated with his extraordinary musical/compositional/pianistic virtuosity that doesn't expose the deeply scarred psyche that seems to dominate most of Shostakovich. But being deeply scarred and keeping it above board- that's as deep as it gets.
no slam on Shostakovich, but give Prokofiev his due, he had no slight bucket of challenges to slog through.
One substantive disagreement, I don't hear Shostakovich as a melodist of the class of Prokofiev. Few are.


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

20centrfuge said:


> To me, Prokofiev has melodic gifts that put him on the same level as Mozart, Tchaikovsky, and Gershwin. Harmonically, He has the soul of a modernist but with the blood of a romantic. He likes to add "wrong" notes to his chords that make the music have a little edge and a lot more personality.
> 
> And when it comes to soul - Symphony no. 6 bleeds soul. Piano Concerto no. 2 has moments of extreme pathos and was written in some ways as an homage to a friend who had recently died. Violin Concerto No. 1, first movement, is fragile, tender. Then you have works like Symphony No. 3 which feels like music for the Apocalypse. Oh yes, I am just getting warmed up. The 3 war-time sonatas are each masterpieces and stand up to repeated listenings. THEY DO NOT GET OLD. Visions Fugitives is mesmerizing. Betrothal in a Monastery, the opera, is delightful and funny. Peter and the Wolf, as a child, captured my imagination and I couldn't get enough of that world. Romeo and Juliet, the ballet is filled with so much wonderful music that it is almost a crime that one person was given so much talent. And then you have some lesser known works like the Pushkin Waltz or the ballet - the Prodigal Son.
> 
> ...


Levine CSO Prokofiev 5-- one of the great orchestra recordings of all time. Breathtaking, I think the CSO was built to do this like no other orchestra on earth.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Prokofiev is the 20th century's Mozart, only with more hot pepper sauce added and an even greater bandwidth. A wonderful composer!


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

mparta said:


> Levine CSO Prokofiev 5-- one of the great orchestra recordings of all time. Breathtaking, I think the CSO was built to do this like no other orchestra on earth.


yes!! great recording!! so is Reiner/CSO, from live concert 2/58...recorded by WBAI...(archival set - CSO - First 100 Years)...great performance....


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> yes!! great recording!! so is Reiner/CSO, from live concert 2/58...recorded by WBAI...(archival set - CSO - First 100 Years)...great performance....


Didn't find the recording but this live Reiner is available on line. Very fine.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

mparta said:


> Wow. I think Prokofiev is nothing but the deeper emotions. If pampered includes escaping revolutionary Russia to the EAST, then through Japan to the US to establish a career as a refugee (and he went to NYC and Chicago, not LA), then his career in France, god keep me from pampering. There probably is a class aspect and emotional aloofness associated with his extraordinary musical/compositional/pianistic virtuosity that doesn't expose the deeply scarred psyche that seems to dominate most of Shostakovich. But being deeply scarred and keeping it above board- that's as deep as it gets.
> no slam on Shostakovich, but give Prokofiev his due, he had no slight bucket of challenges to slog through.
> One substantive disagreement, I don't hear Shostakovich as a melodist of the class of Prokofiev. Few are.


But he didn't "escape" the new USSR - authorities encouraged him to leave knowing that he probably wouldn't fit in - yet. When he did return to the Soviet Union he was constantly seen wearing quite flashy and expensive suits bought in Paris - he really stood out. It didn't take long for him to realize that the communists had lied to him. Imagine that.

So many of the works people cite as deep and profound are indeed just that. There are passages in Romeo and Juliet that are terrifying and dark. But you have to really explore his entire output to know. Prokofieff is one of the few composers that I have collected recordings of everything he ever wrote - as long as it has been recorded - and there are only a few pieces left. There's a great deal of frothy, light easy going music for the theater, movies, ballet, solo piano music. Deep emotions are not even remotely present. Try the Humoresque for Four Bassoons or the Love of Three Oranges - "nothing but the deeper emotions"? Not a chance. Or the American Overture op 42, Symphonic Song op. 57, March in A flat op. 89 and a lot more. Very optimistic, even jubilant music - and not all of it written to order for Stalin!


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## mparta (Sep 29, 2020)

mbhaub said:


> But he didn't "escape" the new USSR - authorities encouraged him to leave knowing that he probably wouldn't fit in - yet. When he did return to the Soviet Union he was constantly seen wearing quite flashy and expensive suits bought in Paris - he really stood out. It didn't take long for him to realize that the communists had lied to him. Imagine that.
> 
> So many of the works people cite as deep and profound are indeed just that. There are passages in Romeo and Juliet that are terrifying and dark. But you have to really explore his entire output to know. Prokofieff is one of the few composers that I have collected recordings of everything he ever wrote - as long as it has been recorded - and there are only a few pieces left. There's a great deal of frothy, light easy going music for the theater, movies, ballet, solo piano music. Deep emotions are not even remotely present. Try the Humoresque for Four Bassoons or the Love of Three Oranges - "nothing but the deeper emotions"? Not a chance. Or the American Overture op 42, Symphonic Song op. 57, March in A flat op. 89 and a lot more. Very optimistic, even jubilant music - and not all of it written to order for Stalin!


 "you have to really explore his entire output to know" precludes discussion.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

mparta said:


> "you have to really explore his entire output to know" precludes discussion.


Why? It should make discussion much more meaningful. I realize that not everyone can, or wants to, listen to the entire body of work of some composers, the more you listen to the better the insight. Actually playing the music is even better. Knowing only a small percentage of a composer's work - usually the popular stuff - gives a false impression. I have listened to only a small number of the operas of Verdi, some I like, some not. So I can't really judge his operas well. On the other hand, I have heard all of the Prokofieff operas and I think I do have valid opinions there. I know all of his ballets - there's more than Romeo and Juliet and Cinderella - there's some great music that most people have never, and will never, hear. A great deal of his music avoids the "deeper" emotions. With Prokofieff you never come away from the pit of despair the way you do with Shostakovich. Prokofieff had a lot in common with Myaskovsky who tried to write pure music without any meaning whatsoever - it was one way to stay alive.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

Prokofiev was definitely not a "pit of despair" sort. He was a fighter, and annoyingly certain of his abilities. It is the emotional areas of "energy"--sometimes fierce energy-- joy, sometimes tenderness, that he shows his strength most. A dappled musical personality. I consider him a fresh wind from the steppe--exhilarating, literally inspiring.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

mbhaub said:


> A great deal of his music avoids the "deeper" emotions. With Prokofieff you never come away from the pit of despair the way you do with Shostakovich. Prokofieff had a lot in common with Myaskovsky who tried to write pure music without any meaning whatsoever - it was one way to stay alive.


Pit of dispair? Lack of deeper emotions? Are we listening to the same composer?


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## Musicaterina (Apr 5, 2020)

Prokofiev is definitively not my farourite composer because I do not like classical modern music (with a few exceptions). I prefer baroque, pre- and viennese classical and early romantic music.


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## Doctor Fuse (Feb 3, 2021)

I don't listen to his music as much as I used to. Used to be top 3, maybe? Still in my Top 10 most played composers on the old turntable...

Such a melodic gift!


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Today my Prokofiev collection changed forever. The new Bis recording with Andrew Litton in Oslo doing symphonies 1, 2, and 3 is spectacular. Simply blows away all the competition in 2 and 3. The Classical is very fine, but I'll never surrender the Kurtz. The SACD sound is just dazzling. If you've struggled with 2 and 3 you have to get this. Here's really deep and profound conducting. It's a long disk, but plays fine.


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Does anyone like his ballet 'the steel step'.... should I put more time into this piece or just forget it.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

I like it, and essential listening for anyone wanting to know Prokofiev and why he upset so many critics early on. It's inventive, scored in his usual style. Quirky. There's only one recording of the whole thing, on CPO. Yes, if you like Prokofiev get it.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Agreed. I like Prokofiev's early-mid 20s output - _Le pas d'acier_, _The Fiery Angel_ and the 2nd symphony are right up there with his best work, I'd say.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

John Lenin said:


> Does anyone like his ballet 'the steel step'.... should I put more time into this piece or just forget it.


Yes, "Le Pas D'Acier" is a neat piece....of the "Soviet Industrial strength" genre...I have Rozhd'st'sky/USSR Sheet-Metal Rippers SO from 1990 on Melodiya....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm a big fan of the Jarvi piano concerto set. And as 20Centrfuge mentioned, no.2 by Gutierrez is awesome! Woodduck used the term "Modernist Romantic" and I think symphony No.7 is a beautiful example. I still need to explore a number of other pieces including the violin concertos and sonatas. And more of his solo piano works. I do like Visions fugitives.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

The two violin concertos are about as good as such get, IMHO. Prokofiev at his most alluring, tender......


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## John Lenin (Feb 4, 2021)

Piano concerto 2 is an absolute masterpiece as is piano sonata 6. How could anyone ever write a better Ballet score than Romeo and Juliet.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> I like it, and essential listening for anyone wanting to know Prokofiev and why he upset so many critics early on. It's inventive, scored in his usual style. Quirky. _There's only one recording of the whole thing, on CPO_. Yes, if you like Prokofiev get it.


The Rozhdestvensky recording on Olympia/Melodiya (with another ballet, _On the Dneiper_) gives us the whole thing as far as I can tell.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

That's the one I have, but is it available? The CPO is. The Jarvi recording of the suite is very good, on Chandos.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

mbhaub said:


> That's the one I have, but is it available? The CPO is. The Jarvi recording of the suite is very good, on Chandos.


I see your point - like a lot of Olympia/Melodiya recordings it's long out of print and that prices for used copies can fluctuate.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I am not going to answer this question because even though he is not my favorite composer I still love his music.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

^^^ +1.......................


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Not favourite (Soviet composer) but certainly better then the over-rated Shostakovich.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Subutai said:


> Not favourite (Soviet composer) but certainly better then the over-rated Shostakovich.


Do you know Shostakovich's chamber music? Do you think Prokofiev's chamber music better?


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Believe it or not, it was LangLang who got me into Prokofiev


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

hammeredklavier said:


> Believe it or not, it was LangLang who got me into Prokofiev


It was at the 0:40 part. That's about when I get up too.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

hammeredklavier said:


> Believe it or not, it was LangLang who got me into Prokofiev.


That whirlwind coda of the 3rd PC is one of the wonders of Prokofiev's monster talent. The huge cadenza of the 2nd PC is another. Before I answered that Proko was among my top 6 composers; I refine that to put him No. 2 behind only Brahms.


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## Calipso (May 10, 2020)

Yes, Prokofiev is my favourite composer. Incredible gifted and versatile and he is much interesting than many overhyped, boring, archaic composers.


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## ThankYouKiwi (May 2, 2021)

Prokofiev used to be my favorite composer and i've heard almost everything by him. I can't say i listen to him much anymore though.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

ThankYouKiwi said:


> Prokofiev used to be my favorite composer and i've heard almost everything by him. I can't say i listen to him much anymore though.


He has a great opera, Betrothal in a Monastery, at least I really enjoyed the DVD of it with Anna Netrebko.


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## ThankYouKiwi (May 2, 2021)

SixFootScowl said:


> He has a great opera, Betrothal in a Monastery, at least I really enjoyed the DVD of it with Anna Netrebko.


Yeah that's probably my favorite opera of his next to The Gambler.

I really enjoy his operas and they're a cool set of works to listen through because they're all very very different from one another.


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

He's one of my favorite Russian composers. Above Tchaik, Shostakovich, and Stravinsky, but behind Scriabin.


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## sprite (Jan 31, 2015)

Calipso said:


> Yes, Prokofiev is my favourite composer. Incredible gifted and versatile and he is much interesting than many overhyped, boring, archaic composers.


Same. I rarely meet anyone who is as passionate about Prokofiev's staggering genius, and would claim him as their favorite. He has many fans, and is among many people's favorites, for sure - but rarely does anyone he seems to be anyone's main composer squeeze... At least, that's how it seems to me. That's just anecdotal evidence from my many hours logged of scrolling forums and subreddits, lol.

His inventiveness, his harmony and melody, his versatility... He has moved me in extraordinary and different ways over and over again.

It's hard to claim one favorite, at the end of the day, because if I listen to Bartok's 3rd string quartet, for example, or Hindemith's Piano sonatas, in that moment they are my favorite composer. But I definitely have an enduring and unique connection to Prokofiev's music that feels just a shade distinct from anyone else.


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## Neo Romanza (May 7, 2013)

I don't understand this poll. If it's a joke, it's a poorly delivered one. I love Prokofiev, but he's not my *absolute* favorite composer.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I haven't really listened to the symphonies enough. I find his second piano concerto and string quartet very impressive. And his piano work, Visions fugitives, which consists of 20 short pieces. And his choral work, Alexander Nevsky. One of these days I'll listen to some of his other operas. The only one I have is War and Peace.


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## mahler9 (9 mo ago)

In my top 10 for sure: The Violin Concertos (both incredibly beautiful) Alexander Nevsky, Lt. Kijé, Piano Concerto 3, Symphonies 1, 3, 5, String qts, piano sonatas (#8 esp),


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## espressivo dolente (7 mo ago)

Not my fave, no, but easily makes my TOP TEN and without question.


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## hoodjem (Feb 23, 2019)

Sometimes I really love Prokofiev's spikey angularity.
And those strange eerie, ironic slow movements.

Then, he is one of my favorites.


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## ansfelden (Jan 11, 2022)

no, he ain´t.

great composer, though.


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## hoodjem (Feb 23, 2019)

One of.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

It's clear that the ,No, he isn't are in a majority .


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