# What will be Rattle's legacy: CBSO or BPO?



## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

His tenure with both orchestras has been rather long. Many consider his CBSO era to be one where he was most at home and he was more adventurous in his recording then he is currently with BP. Alternatively, with BP, he got one of the "best" orchestras in the world at his disposal and made records which were made with that vaunted Berlin sound. Another plus point to his Berlin era was that he pushed the envelope as a conductor: His efforts at musical education, his introduction of the Digital Concert Hall, his embrace of technology as a tool for furthering music's reach. Alternatively, some say that the Berliners aren't the perfect glove for his hand. And they don't fill like an old glove and British orchestras and audiences are better for him.

All of this of course discounting his possible tenure at LSO. If he manages to stay at head for a decade at LSO too, we might have three legacies to compare!

Question being: What would his legacy be in terms of excellent records, live performances and image?


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2015)

I believe that this is Rattle's Legacy:









But seriously, I think that you have already identified that his legacy so far will be split between those two orchestras.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

some guy said:


> I believe that this is Rattle's Legacy:
> 
> View attachment 72642
> 
> ...


What does that car have to do with Rattle's legacy? Unless it is a pun on his surname which also happens to be the car's name.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

A quick heads-up for fellow Rattlers [I suspect British primarily]:






Even if Rattle's interpretations of central Austro-Germanic music isn't top drawer, still could try his Sibelius!


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2015)

Lord Lance said:


> What does that car have to do with Rattle's legacy? Unless it is a pun on his surname which also happens to be the car's name.


It's a Subaru Legacy. It was a bad joke, which I should have resisted but didn't.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

some guy said:


> It's a Subaru Legacy. It was a bad joke, which I should have resisted but didn't.


Ah, older references. Apologies for I am neither old nor a car maniac.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Lord Lance said:


> Ah, older references. Apologies for I am neither old nor a car maniac.


They still make the Subaru Legacy, so I don't know why that would be an older reference.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> They still make the Subaru Legacy, so I don't know why that would be an older reference.


Then it isn't. Or it is. Doesn't matter. Car reference nonetheless!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Rattle has never seemed to take himself too seriously. At the end of the recent BBC documentary about him, he quoted a friend as saying "Simon, the really good conductors - they really only start getting good when they are 65 - you're no exception so don't be in a hurry." Who knows ... his best years may be yet to come.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I think that Rattle's recordings will be his mainstay regardless of what orchestra he is with.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Every recording is a legacy, thereafter is up to people to choose their Rattle.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a feeling his legacy will spell Mahler, I for one hope that some enlightened record producer will allow him a third attempt with LSO, so far it hs been jolly fun to follow him as an Mahler interpreter! (I also hope that there will be som small legacy with all the contemporary music he has premièred!)

/ptr


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

For fellow Rattlers, I present to you most of his recording legacy [80 or 85 percent] off Spotify:






Enjoy the 102 hours and 11 minutes of his music and let me know of any more hidden gems you find.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

One of the constants in Rattle's professional career is that he loves to work with young musicians, whether it be groups like the National Youth Orchestra of the UK or the annual Berlin School's combined orchestras. I would like to feel that his biggest legacy, albeit not his best known, would be the next generation of musicians, professional or not, that he has helped.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Lord Lance said:


> A quick heads-up for fellow Rattlers [I suspect British primarily]:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With a cover like that I'd try anything once. I believe she's one of my many ex girlfriends. Sibelius who? ( However, just listen to his Nielsen Pan and Syrinx, early EMI Rattle, then play Blomstedt. Then tell me who is a conductor, who is a foney pony.)


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Am I the only poster on TC who does not find Simon Rattle to be anything special as a conductor?


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Am I the only poster on TC who does not find Simon Rattle to be anything special as a conductor?


No. I can't say I am familiar with all his recordings, but I have about 10 and none of them moves me much. A couple of weeks ago, I gave another listen to his most recent Planets disc; quite ordinary with a particularly tepid Mars.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I'd choose the CBSO era as under Sir Simon's direction they became one of the household names not just in British but European orchestral circles after decades of relatively provincial obscurity despite previously having some illustrious personages connected with them. When I was in my late teens and early 20s I remember quite a few rear-windscreen stickers, billboards and local paper ads publicising the CBSO so maybe their promotions people also realised the power of advertising while Rattle was pushing them forward. Also, as the younger Rattle was quite a striking figure on the podium the visual aspect wouldn't have done them any harm in the exposure stakes, either.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Certainly his work with the CBSO which he fashioned into a top ensemble. The BPO came ready made.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

It always seemed like the British Press would praise him to the skies, while non English critics would be more mixed. Well, at least some on the Continent were impressed if he wound up with the BPO. I do like some of his CBSO recordings and haven't heard one with the BPO that I thought rose above generically acceptable, but I certainly haven't heard most of his Berlin work


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Am I the only poster on TC who does not find Simon Rattle to be anything special as a conductor?


No, a thousand times no. I have been adamantly calling him a show pony for ages, even on this site.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

hpowders said:


> Am I the only poster on TC who does not find Simon Rattle to be anything special as a conductor?


Probably. bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

dieter said:


> No, a thousand times no. I have been adamantly calling him a show pony for ages, even on this site.


Well, unfortunately, on this occasion, you are incorrect.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Bulldog said:


> No. I can't say I am familiar with all his recordings, but I have about 10 and none of them moves me much. A couple of weeks ago, I gave another listen to his most recent Planets disc; quite ordinary with a particularly tepid Mars.


Simon Rattle and Pierre Boulez both have recordings as conductors of the Bartók Piano Concerto No. 2.
I have both recordings.
Rattle provides an average orchestral accompaniment with the Berlin Philharmonic. A "normal gig" for the orchestra.
Boulez' conducting, also with the Berlin Philharmonic, however, is a revelation. The orchestra sounds alert and inspired.

I wish I could do a blind listening poll with TC members. I believe Boulez would win overwhelmingly, but that's just my opinion. I have no way of actually knowing.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Probably. bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb


I quickly found two TC members here who jumped.....alright...hopped at the opportunity to agree with me.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I quickly found two TC members here who jumped.....alright...hopped at the opportunity to agree with me.


Let's make another poll:lol:


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

hpowders said:


> I quickly found two TC members here who jumped.....alright...hopped at the opportunity to agree with me.


Make that three. I've been listening to both Rattle's live and his recorded performances on and off for decades and I've never been a fan. He was from the very beginning, and has remained ever since, a micromanager from the podium intent on "doing something with" the music instead of letting it tell its own story. When I hear one of his performances I hear Rattle first and the composer second, and I do not like that order of priorities. He clearly has his fans (though there's something disturbingly wide-eyed and Stepford wife-like about the sheer devotion which some of them exude) and, in fairness, orchestras seem to like him, but he is definitely not my cup of tea as an interpreter.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> Well, unfortunately, on this occasion, you are incorrect.


Just ask my wife, I'm never wrong.


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## dieter (Feb 26, 2016)

hpowders said:


> Simon Rattle and Pierre Boulez both have recordings as conductors of the Bartók Piano Concerto No. 2.
> I have both recordings.
> Rattle provides an average orchestral accompaniment with the Berlin Philharmonic. A "normal gig" for the orchestra.
> Boulez' conducting, also with the Berlin Philharmonic, however, is a revelation. The orchestra sounds alert and inspired.
> ...


I did the same with Nielsen's wonderful tone poem Pan and Syrinx. I played the much lauded - well, lauded to the skies in Britain - Rattle, then the Blomstedt, EMI, Danish Orchestra. The piece dances and explodes off the page in the Blomstedt, Rattle's version is plain and drab.
I could go on, especially about his nonsensical Mahler, where, like I've written, he expends a fortune in making cutsey 'points' - I can imagine him beaming and turning to the audience to say, How clever am I - and in the meantime, the work's structure has evaporated. Sigh.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

dieter said:


> Just ask my wife, I'm never wrong.


Hiding behind someone's back doesn't count :lol:


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