# A long winding road.



## Hugo (Mar 2, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I have been lurking around the forum for awhile now and have been fascinated by the amount of knowledge, passion and enthusiasm a lot of you show for the music.

I’m hoping I can borrow some of that to help me on my journey of classical discovery. I’m 33 and grew up in a household that while contained a professional drummer, classical music was never played in the home nor at school. Mostly the Beatles and 60’s/70’s rock/pop.

My interest in classical has only been sparked very recently as I started tuning into our only classical radio station on my commute to work. I listen and take some enjoyment but really feel I’m missing out on a lot as I don’t have a full understanding of the music.

So I’ve looked through the recommended books section of the forum and have put a number of them on my wish list to read over the coming months but what I was hoping to get from you fine folk is some form of starting point.

What I’ve decided to do is take one item be it a composer, a symphony a sonata. Research that and from the information gained during that research use it to guide the discovery. A bit like the way early web pages worked following link to link 

If you would oblige me and recommend a starting point that you think might aid that discovery. I’ll list what I have really enjoyed listening to and maybe this can help you help me. If I could also if you could just add a little note on any recommendations’ as to why you’re recommending it would be very helpful.

I’m very grateful for your time and guidance 

Rimski-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Rotterdams Philharmonisch Orkest

Suite bergamasque Debussy

Schubert - Symphony No. 8 Unfinished

Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition

Chopin piano solo's like Nocturne

Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

I would suggest Tchaikovsky's symphonies. They're full of emotion, colorful and never dull. A good place to start.

You might want to rent a video of a performance at Netflix. They have a lot of classical music if you search. It never seems to come up under suggestions though.

There's a video of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet ballet with Rojo and Acosta that is excellent. It is sure to get you excited about the possibilities of classical music.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hugo said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have been lurking around the forum for awhile now and have been fascinated by the amount of knowledge, passion and enthusiasm a lot of you show for the music.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a plan. If you choose to do the composer thing I am willing to suggest either Sibelius or Neilson. Start with a bio that includes a chronological list of compositions, and try to listen to the works in step with the bio. I really have no idea how well this procedure will work, but it is a plan. It's something I would try myself, except that I already know too much of the music.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

It took me an awful long time to appreciate Sibelius. There's a lot of mediocre performances on CD.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

bigshot said:


> It took me an awful long time to appreciate Sibelius. There's a lot of mediocre performances on CD.


There are, and I don't know how to winnow them out of a project like this one. But starting with Brahms, for instance, means starting with Opus 1. The guy probably discarded several compositions before 'accepting' that one, so it it ain't exactly starting at the beginning. On the other hand, Mozart presents the other extreme; a lot of juvenile stuff got published. On yet another hand (a helping hand?), Mendelssohn's early stuff is very good, but his late works are not his best.

Ah, what to do, what to do. Maybe the best option is to punt.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I hold a bit of the opposite view on 'where to begin.' It is nice to have some background: it can help to 'get you in' if you proceed in chronological order of works produced. It can also be a crashing bore and an epic fail.

Be fully prepared to go off on a tangential path of discovery without any previous information at all. Something piques your interest? Then follow your nose / ears. Want more bio data? Look it up afterwards. So much, far toooo much, has been made of "the bio is the composer," that so and so was expressing XYZ in this piece because he had just had a tooth pulled, his dog died, etc. There is so far very little of any of that sort of story which can be proven.

Rimski-Korsakov: Scheherazade - Rotterdams Philharmonisch Orkest
This brings you smack-dab in the middle of the symphonic essay with the premise of some narrative and illustrative motive, and is a good place to start until you are more comfortable with, and not 'intimidated' by "FORM." Form is important, but some would make out unless you know it deeply and technically, you cannot enjoy a symphony. Balderdash. Of course, knowing what to track can more than enhance your listening pleasure, but for a neophyte it need not AT ALL, keep you from some profoundly great and satisfying music.

Bedrich Smetana's "Má vlast' - a romantic period tone-poem with the premise of following the major waterway that flows through that composers land - a sort of musical series of post-cards snapshots of the landscape. Since you are on a long, winding journey... I think it rather appropriate -- it is also lovely music 

Debussy: I'm a big fan, later piano music and especially the orchestral. For long term investigation, then
A very early work for piano and orchestra, quite pleasant ~ Fantaisie for piano and orchestra Link is one of three





Danses sacrée et profane, for harp and strings.





L'apres-midi d'un faune




La Mer
Jeux

Piano solo:
Suite bergamasque ~ A somewhat eccentric but terrific interpretation on Youtube by Claudio Arrau 
Pour le piano ~ Prélude, Sarabande, Toccata 
Estampes ~ Pagodes, La soirée dans Grenade, Jardins sous la pluie
Masques (a single piece, with a somewhat mysterious 'program')
Images, Set 1 ~ Reflets dans l'eau, Hommage à Rameau, Mouvement
Images, Set 2 ~Cloches à travers les feuilles, Et la lune descend sur le temple qui fut, Poissons d'or
Children's Corner (suite) Dr. Gradus ad Parnassum, Jimbo's Lullaby, Serenade of the Doll, The Snow Is Dancing, The Little Shepherd, Golliwogg's Cakewalk
There are two books of Preludes: all good, try Book 1 No. 6 'des pas sur la niege' (Youtube, Monique Haas), Ce qu'a vu le vent d'ouest, and La cathédrale engloutie // from book 2, Les fées sont d'exquises danseuses, Bruyères, Feux d'artifice
The Etudes ~ Pour les notes répétées, Pour les arpèges composés

His String Quartet in G minor 
and the group of three late sonatas: Cello Sonata, Sonata for flute, viola and harp, Sonata for violin and piano

From his somewhat counterpart 
Maurice Ravel
Piano: Miroirs, a suite of pieces -- try Oiseaux Tristes, alborada del gracioso
Gaspard de la nuit (three pieces
Piano four hands ~ Ma mere l'oye (mother goose suite) and the orchestral suite he made from those.

Instrumental, orchestral:
Introduction and allegro for flute, clarinet, Harp and strings
String Quartet / Violin Sonata / Trio
Piano Concerto in G
Piano Concerto in D
Full-length ballet ~ Daphnis et Chloe
One-act opera ~ L'enfant et les sortilèges

Schubert:
String quintet in C, (the whole piece is nearly 50 minutes, and I recommend it) adagio









Impromptu, Op. 90, no. 3 (piano)

Aria from the opera 'Rosamunde' -- Romance "Der Vollmond"





Songs (He wrote five hundred of them, this, too IS Schubert)
Der Jüngling an der Quelle





Nacht und Träume ~ so wonderful I cite two great performances









Der Hirt auf dem Felsen









Mussorgsky:
Night on Bald Mountain ~ This is now available in the composer's original orchestration - the version we hear was 'tamed' by later arrangers who did not understand what Mussorgsky was about, and his original is crazier and more wonderful than the tame version to which we are all accustomed.

The song cycles ~ The Nursery; Songs and Dances of Death -- great work.

Opera ~ Boris Godunov ~ there is probably a selection of the choral scenes, which are magnificent.

Another Russian ~ Alexander Borodin, from his opera Prince Igor, Polovetsian Dances, for orchestra with chorus.





Chopin: there are 21 nocturnes. Recommend also Ballade No. 4, the two piano concerti.

Piano Music of a contemporary:
Robert Schumann:
Fantasiestücke - Suite of pieces




Kinderszenen - suite


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

If you like Schubert's 8th symphony, you will must certainly like his 5th symphony, and probably his 9th as well.

And if you have a liking for Russian composers, there is plenty music to delve into enough for a lifetime. Start with the basics first, the romantics Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, and Borodin. Then you can go on to the secret gems.


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## samurai (Apr 22, 2011)

In recommending some Russian composers, I would just add to the previous poster's fine list the names of Sergei Prokofiev and Dmitri Shostakovich, especially the latter's *5th, 7th,* and *8th-11th* Symphonies, as well as his SQS, most notably his *7th* thru *10th*, at least to start off with. Interestingly enough, Shostakovich wrote the same number--15--of both symphonies and string quartets.


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## Hugo (Mar 2, 2012)

Wow, 

Thanks everyone and petrb thanks for going to so much trouble with such a detailed post.

Look forward to hearing any other pointers!


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## Dimboukas (Oct 12, 2011)

I would suggest something accessible enough yet not very easy listening such as Beethoven's Piano Concerto No. 5 "Emperor" (my first contact with classical music) or Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral". Try Mozart's more sophisticated piano concerto's such as No. 14, 20, 21, 24, 27 and his Horn Concertos. If you want something a little more abstract try Schumann's Piano Concerto and for a lot more abstract his Cello Concerto.


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## Stargazer (Nov 9, 2011)

Something that I usually do when looking for new things is I will pick a composer I don't know much about, look them up on wikipedia, and start going through some of the more popular works listed there. For most of the more famous composers, and even many of the lesser-known ones, there is a complete listing there of all of their completed works. This probably isn't a typical method but I find it works really well for me since rather than blindly listening to pieces I can kind of read up on them first and pick and choose those that seem to better fit my personal tastes. 

As for suggestions, here's a couple I think you may like based on the pieces you listed. Chopin and Beethoven's piano concertos are all really good, you really can't go wrong with any of them (I'm particularly fond of Chopin's 1st and Beethoven's 5th) . You can also check out the other Beethoven piano sonatas, and maybe some of his string quartets...I'm preferential to the later ones myself. The same goes for Schubert. Also really agree with the Tchaikovsky symphony suggestion, only recently started getting into him myself but he's since become one of my favorites (his 5th/6th are ahmazing). Then you can start picking out some composers from one of the lists on these forums and doing the same thing (with all of the "top ____ lists you can start at #1 and work your way down...I usually find if something is ranked #1 its for a reason lol)


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hello Hugo. Some good tips above from other members here. What I'm adding is more things similar in some way to what you've listed -



Hugo said:


> Rimski-Korsakov: Scheherazade


Rimsky-Korsakov taught a number of composers, you might like to try two I can think of now:

- *Ippolitov-Ivanov *- his _Caucasian Sketches _suites 1 & 2, the fist one has a big hit you may already know, _The Procession of the Sardar_.
- *Stravinsky* - his early ballet _The Firebird _has echoes of Rimsky's fine orchestration, but of course unique, listen to those rhythms in _King Katchei's Infernal Dance_, it takes Rimsky a step further to the modern age.

& *Richard Strauss*, influenced by Rimsky's orientalism and the exotic in his _Dance of the Seven Veils_, an orchestral part of the opera _Salome_.



> Suite bergamasque Debussy...
> 
> Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata


In terms of similar kind of poetic or lyrical things, there's a lot of that in piano repertoire. Things that I can think of are:

*Beethoven* -_ Fur Elise_, & maybe the _Pastoral _ sonata for piano
*Debussy* - _Children's Corner Suite_, some pieces of the two books of _Preludes_ (24 in total) - eg. _La fille aux cheveux de lin (The girl with the flaxen hair)_ from Book I
*Liszt* - _Liebestraum #3, Consolations_, some pieces of _The Years of Pilgramage_, eg. _Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este (The Fountains of the Villa d'Este)_
*Faure* - _Dolly Suite _(piano duet)



> ...
> Schubert - Symphony No. 8 Unfinished
> ...


I would go as others said, to the other Schubert symphonies, esp. the more "Romantic" ones - the 9th and the 10th (which was completed by modern scholar Brian Newbould).

He is unique, esp. the _Unfinished_ symphony, but aspects of Schubert's late symphonic style carried over to Bruckner and maybe Mahler to a degree as well. They can be more heavy going though & longer still, so good idea to maybe start with the slow movements of their symphonies first.



> Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition
> ...


*Elgar *- _Enigma Variations_
*Holst* -_ The Planets_
*Debussy *- _La Mer_; & also _Three Nocturnes for orchestra_ & the_ Images _for orchestra, esp. _Iberia_
*Ravel* - _Rhapsodie Espagnole_

& maybe pushing it a bit with *Webern's* _Six Pieces for orchestra, Op. 6_ (has very visual/dramatic aspects, eg. a pivotal funeral march & it's very short, about 11 minutes!).



> Chopin piano solo's like Nocturne
> ...


Maybe try other nocturnes by *John Field*, *Liszt,* and* Debussy's early one for piano* (but he did the abovementioned _Three Nocturnes for orchestra _later)


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## Hugo (Mar 2, 2012)

Thank you sid for another very detailed post. 
I have a lot to get me started. Now to find the time to start enjoying it all.

I'm really grateful for everyone's input.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hugo said:


> Thank you sid for another very detailed post.
> I have a lot to get me started. Now to find the time to start enjoying it all.
> 
> I'm really grateful for everyone's input.


If you follow all of it, you will become appreciative of monotones to the exclusion of anything else.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hugo said:


> Thank you sid for another very detailed post....


Your welcome, Hugo.

I would also add, under the Mussorgsky recommendations,* Prokofiev's *_Visions Fugitives_, esp. the arrangement for string orchestra by Rudolf Barshai (it was originally a solo piano work). This is also a very visual work.

Adding to my earlier piano recommendations, I would add *Schubert's* _Moments Musicaux _and _Impromptus_.

Happy listening!



Hilltroll72 said:


> If you follow all of it, you will become appreciative of monotones to the exclusion of anything else.


Take it easy, they're only recommendations, they are not set in stone and neither are they the be all and end all. I just try to answer Hugo's questions, or that of any OP on this forum, rather than questioning why he's asking a question, things that I find to be useless semantic things, reading too many things into things and all that stuff I find irrelevant to these types of threads...


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Sid James said:


> [...]
> Take it easy, they're only recommendations, they are not set in stone and neither are they the be all and end all. I just try to answer Hugo's questions, or that of any OP on this forum, rather than questioning why he's asking a question, things that I find to be useless semantic things, reading too many things into things and all that stuff I find irrelevant to these types of threads...


As usual, you assume that every comment is directed at you. They ain't. I suspect that our responses are are of approximately equal irrelevance.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Bach: Brandenburg Concerti Bach: Goldberg Variations 


Bartok - String Quartets (Complete)

Beethoven: Symphonies 3, 5, 9
Beethoven: String Quartets (Complete) 
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas (Complete)

 
Brahms: Symphonies (Complete)
Brahms: Piano Quartets
 
Bruckner: Symphonies 4 - 9
 
Chopin: Piano Cti. 1 & 2 
Chopin: Solo Piano

Debussy: Orchestral Works 
Debussy: String Quartet
Debussy: Solo Piano

Dvorak: Cello Concerto
Dvorak: Symphonies 5 - 9
Dvorak String Quartet Op. 96 "American"

Elgar: Cello Concerto 
Elgar Violin Concerto
Elgar: Enigma Variations 

Fauré: Requiem
Faure: Piano Quintets

Franck: Symphonie in D minor
Franck: Piano Quintet

Grieg: Piano Concerto
Grieg: Peer Gynt Suites 
Grieg: Lyric Pieces

Handel: Concerto Grossi, Op. 6 (Complete)
Handel: Suites for Keyboard
 
Haydn: Paris Symphonies
Haydn: String Quartets, Op. 76 (Complete)
Haydn: Late Piano Sonatas

Hindemith: Orchestral Works

Holst: The Planets 

Janacek: String Quartets 1 & 2

Janacek: Piano Music

Liszt: Piano Cti. 1 & 2
Liszt: Faust Symphony 
Liszt: Solo Piano

Mahler: Symphonies (Complete)


Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto
Mendelssohn: Symphonies 3 & 4


 
Mozart Violin Cti. 1 - 5
Mozart: Piano Concerti 19 - 27
Mozart: Symphonies 35 - 41 
Mozart: Figaro, Cosi, Don G, Flute (Highlights)
Mozart: Requiem

Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition

Nielsen: Symphonies 1 - 5

Orff: Carmina Burana 

Poulenc: Concerto for Two Pianos 
Poulenc: Solo Piano

Prokofiev: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Prokofiev: Piano Concertos 1 & 3
Prokofiev: Syms 1 & 5

Rachmaninov: Piano Concerti 2 & 3
Rachmaninov: Symphony 2
Rachmaninov: Solo Piano

 
Ravel: Piano Concerti
Ravel: Orchestral Works
Ravel: String Quartet
Ravel: Solo Piano Music 

Resphigi: Roman Trilogy

Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade 
 
Saint-Saens: Violin Concerto 3
Saint-Saens: Symphony 3

Satie: Piano Works 

Scarlatti D: Keyboard Sonatas 

Schoenberg: Violin Concerto
Schoenberg: Piano Concerto
Schoenberg: Variations for Orchestra, Transfigured Night
Schoenberg: Solo Piano

 
Schubert: Symphonies 4, "Unfinished", 9
Schubert: Piano Quintet "Trout"
Schubert: Late String Quartets
Schubert: Arpeggione Sonata 
Schubert: Late Piano Sonatas 

Schumann: Piano Concerto 
Schumann: Symphonies (Complete)
Schumann: Solo Piano 

Scriabin: Symphonies (Complete)
Scriabin: Solo Piano

Shostakovich: Symphonies 4 - 11
Shostakovich: String Quartets 3 & 8
Shostakovich: Solo Piano

Sibelius: Symphonies (Complete)

Strauss R: Tone Poems 


Stravinsky: Violin Concerto
Stravinsky: Firebird Suite (1947)
Stravinsky: Rite of Spring

Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto 1
Tchaikovsky: Symphonies (Complete)

Vivaldi: "Four Seasons"


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

/\ Yeah, _vaneyes_, that'll do for starters. When the OP has those thoroughly implanted in his noggin...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Hilltroll72 said:


> /\ Yeah, _vaneyes_, that'll do for starters. When the OP has those thoroughly implanted in his noggin...


Well, at least Van's list doesn't have the dreaded Wagner :lol:...


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## Hugo (Mar 2, 2012)

PetrB said:


> I
> Bedrich Smetana's "Má vlast' - a romantic period tone-poem with the premise of following the major waterway that flows through that composers land - a sort of musical series of post-cards snapshots of the landscape. Since you are on a long, winding journey... I think it rather appropriate -- it is also lovely music


I have listened to a good number of your and other recommendations over the last few days and really haven't heard anything yet I disliked but just wanted to give a special mention to this piece it really is as you put it lovley music.

Thanks again.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Hugo said:


> I have listened to a good number of your and other recommendations over the last few days and really haven't heard anything yet I disliked but just wanted to give a special mention to this piece it really is as you put it lovley music.
> 
> Thanks again.


"a sort of musical series of post-cards snapshots of the landscape."

Harumph. Ma Vlast is a lot more than that. There are historical allusions that, if you are aware of them and the performance augments them, make the trip considerably more interesting.

 Ma Vlast... Kubelik..._ mutter, mutter_...


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