# What do you think about Katerina Wagner's Meistersinger?



## Parsifal1954 (May 6, 2013)

Recently, I watched Katerina Wagner's Meistersinger. I was shocked. How in the world the great great grand daughter of Wagner would be so confused about the meaning of the opera. She portraits Hans Sachs as the villain and a pro-fascist! Even someone who is not so much into Wagner operas can see or read in the last lines of the libretto that when Sachs talks to Walter about obeying your masters, he means master singers not political or military masters. The libretto clearly says the military power is not important and even if the Holy German Empire falls (the story is in the Middle Ages) what remains is the holy German ART. What do you think?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I think it most pathetic, as in really pitiable, that a fourth (?) generation scion of a famous ancestor feels the pressure to have anything to do with the same area which brought the ancestor fame.

When such a family history looms large, a descendent may choose a field of study based upon the overt or covert pressures of having been someones son, daughter, great great great, etc. instead of truly finding their own sense of self and direction. A life not your own = a life missed. Tragic, really.

I think it beyond reason that just because a person bears the family name generations later that anyone would expect of them any kind of involvement -- or understanding -- with their ancestor's works.

All 'round, everyone loses, the ancestor most of all.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Kathatina is the great grand daughter, not great great grand daughter of Wagner. I haven't seen the DVD, but from what I've heard about it, it sounds like the most ridiculous travesty of an opera imaginable .
Nothing but ludicrous arbitrary gimmicks for shock value . But opera goers in Germany are no longer shocked by anything in opera today .


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## Volve (Apr 14, 2013)

Basically, if it's not going to be done good, better not do it at all. I feel a terrible sorrow when I see what's being done to Wagner's operas lately. Seriously, have you guys seen the Walkeries as bikers?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PetrB said:


> I think it most pathetic, as in really pitiable, that a fourth (?) generation scion of a famous ancestor feels the pressure to have anything to do with the same area which brought the ancestor fame.
> 
> When such a family history looms large, a descendent may choose a field of study based upon the overt or covert pressures of having been someones son, daughter, great great great, etc. instead of truly finding their own sense of self and direction. A life not your own = a life missed. Tragic, really.
> 
> ...


But you must admit, Katharina's Meistersinger is one of the greatest achievements of Wagner's ancestors. Right up there with being best buds with Hitler and losing several of Wagner's original manuscripts.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The producer should be there to illuminate the work of the composer, not to impose their ideas and make the opera something it isn't. I know Weiland Wagner was revolutionary, but he was at least trying to interpret his grandfather's works not make them something they weren't.
The same rule applies across all Opera - or should do. The way to cure this disease of the directors is for the public to vote with their feet. If no one turned up then the production would be cancelled. But as long as the public are willing and gullible enough to swallow such nonsense, it will go on being propagated.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Couchie said:


> But you must admit, Katharina's Meistersinger is one of the greatest achievements of Wagner's ancestors. Right up there with being best buds with Hitler and losing several of Wagner's original manuscripts.


All of which are more noteworthy than the theatrical aspirations of Siegfried Wagner...


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

What i think about that woman, i cannot say it here. There's too much curse words in the sentence.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

dionisio said:


> What i think about that woman, i cannot say it here. There's too much curse words in the sentence.


When you start speaking of anyone in terms of _"That woman,"_ or _"That Man,"_ -- that is already a big tip-off to the way you feel about them


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## Notung (Jun 12, 2013)

Volve said:


> Basically, if it's not going to be done good, better not do it at all. I feel a terrible sorrow when I see what's being done to Wagner's operas lately. Seriously, have you guys seen the Walkeries as bikers?


Le Tour de le Rhin!:lol:


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> All of which are more noteworthy than the theatrical aspirations of Siegfried Wagner...


Have you heard some? I ask because I haven't, but I mean to, out of interest. Wagner's son writing operas and not succeeding, expected to keep the dynasty alive - a bit of a tragic figure, quite bitter and always blaming others. But I would like to hear some of his work, trying to be unprejudiced.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

Couchie said:


> But you must admit, Katharina's Meistersinger is one of the greatest achievements of Wagner's ancestors. Right up there with being best buds with Hitler and losing several of Wagner's original manuscripts.


Refresh my memory, please: When did the Wagner family lose manuscripts? I remember that an important collection was lost in Hitler's possession, but those manuscripts came from the House of Wittelsbach.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Ebab said:


> Have you heard some? I ask because I haven't, but I mean to, out of interest. Wagner's son writing operas and not succeeding, expected to keep the dynasty alive - a bit of a tragic figure, quite bitter and always blaming others. But I would like to hear some of his work, trying to be unprejudiced.


He was also forced into a sham marriage by his mother, who wanted to extend the Wagner line (I suppose you already know all about that).

What I heard of the music of his operas (he wrote more of them than Richard) was unremarkable on every level, and reputation suggests that the libretti aren't as high quality either.


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## tyroneslothrop (Sep 5, 2012)

Ebab said:


> But I would like to hear some of his work, trying to be unprejudiced.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Parsifal1954 said:


> Recently, I watched Katerina Wagner's Meistersinger. I was shocked. How in the world the great great grand daughter of Wagner would be so confused about the meaning of the opera. She portraits Hans Sachs as the villain and a pro-fascist! Even someone who is not so much into Wagner operas can see or read in the last lines of the libretto that when Sachs talks to Walter about obeying your masters, he means master singers not political or military masters. The libretto clearly says the military power is not important and even if the Holy German Empire falls (the story is in the Middle Ages) what remains is the holy German ART. What do you think?


I absolutely love that final speech of Sachs. It is beautiful musically, and it is a very good, appropriate ending for the opera: Walther winning his girl in a contest of musicians, and Hans Sachs offering up a praise to that same artistic tradition that had made the whole thing possible in the first place, the tradition that he and Walther, in spite of his disagreements with the other Mastersingers, also belonged to, as well as Wagner himself - a part of a people that for centuries has created, appreciated and loved music. For great art does not arise in a vacuum.

As for Katharina... she is neither the first, nor the last one of those who would like a free ride into fame on the backs of those who have actually created something worthwhile and enduring. Too bad she is actually an heir of the clan, and as such is supposed to serve as a guardian of Wagner's art.


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## Ebab (Mar 9, 2013)

tyroneslothrop said:


> _[Prelude to "Sonnenflammen"]_


Maybe I'm easy to please, but he could have done worse, couldn't he? I guess this overture is all over the map and dramatically not really going anywhere (unlike his father's), but I did like some of the tonal images/orchestrations, the mere "sounds". They felt "cinematic" to me (which I mean as a compliment).



Mahlerian said:


> He was also forced into a sham marriage by his mother, who wanted to extend the Wagner line (I suppose you already know all about that).


Yes, I've read Brigitte Hamann's biography on Winifred Wagner, where that of course was a topic. - We have particular evidence of his sister Eva Chamberlain, applying _substantial_ pressure.

You know - as a gay man myself (and happy to live in different times), I can relate to the conflict. Dynastic marriages had been a normal thing for millenia, and the Wagner family hadn't quite realized the signs of the times. In effect though, the marriage to Winifred was undoubtedly a good thing for Siegfried; she was a devoted and ever-supportive wife, and absolutely covered his back, for which he was grateful. After his death, with all the - justified! - controversy around Winifred, she was the one who "saved" Bayreuth (whether one regards that as a good thing or not - I tend to the former).


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