# Need some advices



## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Ok guys, I'd like to start composing some lieders and I'm analysing Schubert's most famous songs.

One question: sometimes I saw that some verses or some words are repeated even if there are no repetitions on the original text of the poem. 

Is this due to the fact that sometimes you need to complete a musical line and than you repeat the same line or some words?

Could you explain me this more in-depth?

I'd like to know also which kind of basis I need in terms of poetry knowledge.

Thanks for your time!


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

why, oh why would anyone want to repeat a word?

It puzzles me, it really puzzles me, why anyone would want to do this, would want to try this, would want to fall into this trap

Tell me, O tell me do, do you read much poetry?

If not, perhaps you should, perhaps you should!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

If you took all the repeats, all the repeats, yes all the repeats
out of classical-era music, classical-era music, classical-era music,
the pieces, the pieces, the pieces, all the pieces
would be very short.


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## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

Your post puzzles me. While there are some very talented people at TC, I'm curious why you haven't gone to a library to read studies on Schubert's lieder. There are lots of them. A basic starting point:

Kristina Muxfeldt, "Schubert's Songs: The Transformation of a Genre," in _The Cambridge Companion to Schubert_, ed. Christopher H. Gibbs (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1997), 121-137. (And she has a good bibliography).

Have you consulted how contemporary composers of art songs compose? For example: Morten Lauridsen, Arvo Pärt, Eric Whitaker, Tarik O'Regan. Whitaker draws on American poets for his lyrics; O'Regan too draws on poets for his lyrics.

As for knowledge of poetry, the simplest answer is: read lots and lots and lots of it. By your avatar, it says that you are based in Italy. Have you read the poetry of Eugenio Montale, who won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1975? I love his poetry. His complete works are a huge volume of material, and his style varies a lot from volume to volume. But it may not suit what _you_ are seeking to express. For a broad survey, see Ned Condini, ed., _An Anthology of Modern Italian Poetry_ (Modern Language Association, 2009) -- but this is a bi-lingual compilation geared as an introduction to English speaker. I'm sure that there are better things available in the average Italian public library. One of the best introductions to poetry is by the contemporary American poet Edward Hirsch, _How to Read a Poem and Fall in Love with Poetry_ (Harvest, 2000).

I could go on and on with recommendations about reading poetry. But I think that's not the best strategy. I guess that I would encourage you _not_ to seek such matters here. Go explore a good library where you live. Study poets, study composers whose use of poetry you respect deeply. And as you are doing all that, compose. Read, listen, compose. My sense is that the internet is a crummy place to learn to be an artist.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Come, come, Alypius!

Suggesting that a serious student should visit a library and might learn through reading is a somewhat radical idea in this day and age, surely?


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

Alypius said:


> My sense is that the internet is a crummy place to learn to be an artist.


Yes now I'm starting realizing this. This was the first musical forum I entered and it will be probably the last.

But thanks that was the starting point I needed.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Do not analyze, please. Look at the poetry / text, in the original language. Look up each word as to its meaning, so you better know _how the prosody_ has been thought of in musical terms.

pros·o·dy
ˈpräsədē/
noun
noun: prosody

*the patterns of rhythm and sound used in poetry.*
*the patterns of stress and intonation in a language.*
plural noun: prosodies

and then think about the slightly more formal

scansion
 
scan·sion
[skan-shuhn]
noun Prosody .
*the metrical analysis of verse.* The usual marks for scansion are ˘ for a *short or unaccented syllable*, ¯ or · for a *long or accented syllable*, ^ for *a rest*, | for *a foot division*, and ‖ for a *caesura or pause*.
-- all very easy to directly relate to musical time and note durations.

Listen to various lieder, some French repertoire (Berlioz to Faure, Debussy, Duparc, Ravel, Poulenc), _e canzoni, prego._ There is a natural rhythm and cadence to different languages, even within the stricter confines of poetry with its set meter and whatever the format of type of 'feet' (different lengths of number of syllables and accented beats) are chosen.

It is thought the most ancient singing, by bards in classical Greece, was rather basic, the text usually sung with one syllable to the beat, with the occasional word emphasized by being extended -- held -- over two beats.

Repeated words in the text are often for emphasis of that word, and too, those can be another type of cessation of the flow of words so the listener is given a pause to take in what was sung; that also avoids a more steady stream of words, and information, either of which coming at too steady a rate become monotonous -- it is to be hoped repetition of a word _is not just to fill a strophic length of a fixed song format._

Be aware, just as in a poetry reading or delivering a line in a play, usually going with the punctuation, it is 'allowed' and can be very effective if there is a (called-for) dramatic pause, determined by you, as it may not be visible in the written text.

Choose your text, and begin


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## kikko (Jun 19, 2014)

PetrB said:


> /cut


Thanks for your time =)


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