# Avoid listening to pieces you are learning/performing?



## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

What do you think?

Should one avoid listening to recordings of pieces they are learning/performing?


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

My step daughter's piano teacher (used to be me, until she couldn't take it any more), encourages her to listen to a recording even over using a metronome to learn timing. I told him I didn't agree with that at all. Plus she learns a lot faster with the metronome, as it organises he notes in her head. I somewhat agree with your teacher, because a recording which usually have some rubato could really mess up your grasp of the piece.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I say that one can learn a lot from recordings and use them all the time. My metronome was relegated to the closet long ago.


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## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> My step daughter's piano teacher (used to be me, until she couldn't take it any more), encourages her to listen to a recording even over using a metronome to learn timing. I told him I didn't agree with that at all. Plus she learns a lot faster with the metronome, as it organises he notes in her head. I somewhat agree with your teacher, because a recording which usually have some rubato could really mess up your grasp of the piece.


Yes, my teacher asks me to practise with a metronome every single moment.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

quietfire said:


> Yes, my teacher asks me to practise with a metronome every single moment.


Good advice, sometimes if you start to play faster without the metronome, you get unwanted slurring or uneven parts. My teacher told me before a recital to practice slow sometimes and fast sometimes, because playing fast all the time also causes uneveness.


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## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Good advice, sometimes if you start to play faster without the metronome, you get unwanted slurring or uneven parts. My teacher told me before a recital to practice slow sometimes and fast sometimes, because playing fast all the time also causes uneveness.


I agree that evenness is important, as this will help you improve your technique and it can sound ugly if your playing is bumpy and uneven.

Though here is the thing. Some recordings, while technically very uneven (when they should be even as written on the score) are extremely beautiful because they really captured the essence of the music and communicated it in the performance.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

quietfire said:


> I agree that evenness is important, as this will help you improve your technique and it can sound ugly if your playing is bumpy and uneven.
> 
> Though here is the thing. Some recordings, while technically very uneven (when they should be even as written on the score) are extremely beautiful because they really captured the essence of the music and communicated it in the performance.


Yeah, the rubato separates an outstanding insightful performance from a plain boring amateurish one. But when learning though, you need to feel out the basics of the piece, but using an already highly stylized recording version as your basis could obstruct you from feeling it out and branching out on your own.


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## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yeah, the rubato separates an outstanding insightful performance from a plain boring amateurish one. But when learning though, you need to feel out the basics of the piece, but using an already highly stylized recording version as your basis could obstruct you from feeling it out and branching out on your own.


Ok you swayed me. I totally agree with you.


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## Rys (Nov 26, 2016)

Interesting concept. My piano teacher had the *opposite* philosophy. I was often sent home with recordings from different pianists to study their different styles and techniques. The goal was that I would learn to imitate, and change, a bit from the best of all worlds. That I would come up with my own identity by studying others. And that I would learn differences in how Bach should be played differently from Chopin.
There was a downside though. For many years I struggled with counting rhythms, because I mostly imitated the rhythms of other pianists instead of counting out sheet music in my head. When I started studding Debussy I got so frustrated, eventually I would count my way through it. I owe him for teaching me the other side of music. Yin and Yang.


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## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Phil loves classical said:


> My step daughter's piano teacher (used to be me, until she couldn't take it any more), encourages her to listen to a recording even over using a metronome to learn timing. I told him I didn't agree with that at all. Plus she learns a lot faster with the metronome, as it organises he notes in her head. I somewhat agree with your teacher, because a recording which usually have some rubato could really mess up your grasp of the piece.


This story reminds me when I was teaching a friend to play piano when I was like 5 years old. Within a few minutes I brought him to tears.

Damn, I thought I was a good teacher.


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## quietfire (Mar 13, 2017)

Rys said:


> Interesting concept. My piano teacher had the *opposite* philosophy. I was often sent home with recordings from different pianists to study their different styles and techniques. The goal was that I would learn to imitate, and change, a bit from the best of all worlds. That I would come up with my own identity by studying others. And that I would learn differences in how Bach should be played differently from Chopin.
> There was a downside though. For many years I struggled with counting rhythms, because I mostly imitated the rhythms of other pianists instead of counting out sheet music in my head. When I started studding Debussy I got so frustrated, eventually I would count my way through it. I owe him for teaching me the other side of music. Yin and Yang.


Yeah, it's sometimes good to have a moderate view than an extremist view in things like this (listen to some recordings, but not too much and not just one).

But then one also might not want to be wishy washy and have some kind of consistency too. Hence, extremist views in some areas of life.

I think if you are not sure, and if in doubt, do not listen to recordings until you feel like you have a fairly good grasp of technique (which means a fairly substantial amount of time).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

quietfire said:


> Yes, my teacher asks me to practise with a metronome every single moment.


metronomes are annoying - they keep speeding up and slowing down!! :lol::devil:


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

quietfire said:


> Yeah, it's sometimes good to have a moderate view than an extremist view in things like this (listen to some recordings, but not too much and not just one).
> 
> But then one also might not want to be wishy washy and have some kind of consistency too. Hence, extremist views in some areas of life.
> 
> I think if you are not sure, and if in doubt, do not listen to recordings until you feel like you have a fairly good grasp of technique (which means a fairly substantial amount of time).


Yeah, that's it right there. Listening to recordings can give you ideas once you've gotten the technique down.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

For me, the most amazing playing with rubato is Emil Gilels' in Mozart's Piano Concerto 27, 2nd movement. That performance is out of this world, and puts to shame every other recording I've heard. Listen here from 3:30 to 5:00.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Heck148 said:


> metronomes are annoying - they keep speeding up and slowing down!! :lol::devil:


You've got it in one. :cheers:


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

I wonder how on earth pianists managed then in the days before these friendly creatures appeared on the scene?










Were interpretations perhaps far more free, time-wise, or did they just learn to read properly?


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