# SOPRANO TOURNAMENT: (Semifinal #1): Flagstad vs Leider



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Kirsten Flagstad, Norway, 1895-1962 (defeated Grob-Prandl 18-2)






Frida Leider, Germany, 1888-1975 (defeated Varnay 13-6)






Who's singing did you prefer and why?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)




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## Aerobat (Dec 31, 2018)

I can't vote - the Leider video is showing as not available again.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Flagstad performance is regal in every sense, but there are a couple of unsure top notes near the end.
Leider is more exciting but she tends to kind of scream those high notes where Flagstad simply ascends.

This definitely requires more listens, after the first one I cannot cast my vote yet.

P.S. But oh those eyes... next time I'll listen with my screen turned off to bring out more rationale.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Two of the greatest Wagnerian sopranos of all times (maybe even _the_ greatest) pitted against each other. This is almost impossible.

I expected to come down in favour of Leider, but actually it's harder than I thought. Leider is not quite as imaginative as I expected and Flagstad a good deal more. Both have magnificent voices of course (if you think Leider screams her high notes, you clearly haven't heard many of today's Wagnerian sopranos).

I don't know when Leider's recording was made but Flagstad's was in 1948, at the dawn of the LP era, where the Leider would have been a lot earlier. I don't know who is conducting either, where Flagstad gets Furtwängler.

I'm quite conflicted but finally I've come down in favour of Leider as I find her interpretation just that bit more involving.


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## Music Snob (Nov 14, 2018)

Kirsten Flagstad. The timbre of her voice is so pleasant and never abrasive to me. Her voice is unique and never shrill. I can go on but at the moment I do not have the time.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I can understand why others find this one close, but it boils down to a classic trade off between an emphasis on beauty of tone and dramatic involvement (although both are present in the two excerpts presented here. Flagstad's immaculate vocal emission is stunning (especially when one considers that the reported size of the voice doesn't come across on a recording). Leider is a little rough of tone, however she wins for me due to her naturally dramatic rendering of Wagner's words.

Leider wins for me!

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

This is the toughest of the contests for me yet. I was not prepared to be as bowled over by Leider as I was. Such youthful and joyous energy, such emotional power and such a gloriously beautiful voice. She would be somewhere near the top in my favorite Immolation Scenes with early Jessye Norman ( from her Wagner CD, not the concert version), Varnay, Traubel and Farrell. That list is like a merry go round that keeps changing position. Still, Flagstad wins by a nose on this from the incredible beauty of her ringing tone, nobility, and conviction and knowing that in the house it was perhaps the greatest Wagnerian voice of all time.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Both contestants are at their disadvantages.

The Immolation Scene of Flagstad is 19 minute-long, while Leider's is only at 11 minutes, which means the latter is mercilessly rushed. Extensive phrasing and modulation, for which Leider is admired and there are live performances of her that could testify that, can't be demonstrated here. 

The recording of Leider was made in 1930 I think, which means she was in her early 40s (also the prime of her career). Flagstad was already 54. The ethereal freshness of her voice had been diminished compared to what we have of her earlier Isolde's and Brunnhilde's.

I will take both. But my favorite Immolation Scenes would remain the ones by Germaine Lubin and Marjorie Lawrence, both in French.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> Both contestants are at their disadvantages.
> 
> The Immolation Scene of Flagstad is 19 minute-long, while Leider's is only at 11 minutes, which means the latter is mercilessly rushed. Extensive phrasing and modulation, for which Leider is admired and there are live performances of her that could testify that, can't be demonstrated here.
> 
> ...


Marjorie Lawrence was something special indeed.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Marjorie Lawrence was something special indeed.


I agree, I prefer her over Flagstad in the Met live Walkures. I did a comparison of the above with Lawrence's live Met recording of the immolation scene and Leider still won.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Holy Wotan, can these women sing! It's been a long time since I listened to either of these recordings, and I have tears in my eyes, even while chuckling over the interesting elided ending of the Leider recording, in which the gods really don't have time to burn properly.

It's a privilege to be able to hear these two great singers side by side, with their very different voices and temperaments. Between the majestic river of tone that flows from the Norse goddess Flagstad and the exciting shimmer and intense line of Leider I hate to have to choose, but the one factor that inclines me toward Leider is the same factor that influenced me in considering her "Liebestod," that being the very fast tempo necessitated by the limitations of the 78rpm medium. Given how rushed this performance is, Leider's resourcefulness in fulfilling the scene's dramatic requirements is simply amazing; I doubt that many singers could make as much of it at this tempo. Flagstad, recording in 1948, could luxuriate in the conducting of Furtwangler, and as she sings sensitively and knowingly we get a truer picture of the epic score, but not a more profound or deeply felt portrayal of the character. I can only imagine what Leider might have done at a less breakneck pace. Still, just listen to the sublime viola which is Flagstad's voice emerging from the orchestral texture as she quietly crescendos on "Ruhe, ruhe, du Gott!" Surely this is what the real Brunnhilde sounded like... There _was_ a real Brunnhilde, wasn't there?

At this moment the score is tied, and I'm going to leave it that way.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

silentio said:


> The Immolation Scene of Flagstad is 19 minute-long, while Leider's is only at 11 minutes, which means the latter is mercilessly rushed.


No, it's just abridged heavily (for example, the whole of Hagen's entry is cut, almost all of the final immolation music is cut etc)

P.S. And yeah, I finally decided to vote Leider.... have mercy on me ye Norse Gods!


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Azol said:


> No, it's just abridged heavily


Leider is still rushed. For example, in _"Alles, Alles, Alles weiß ich, Alles ward mir nun frei. Auch deine Raben hör' ich rauschen"_, she was hurried off. The whole phrase lacks the necessary gravity and is borderline awkward.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

silentio said:


> Both contestants are at their disadvantages.
> 
> The Immolation Scene of Flagstad is 19 minute-long, while Leider's is only at 11 minutes, which means the latter is mercilessly rushed. Extensive phrasing and modulation, for which Leider is admired and there are live performances of her that could testify that, can't be demonstrated here.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think both are great and neither show the singer at their very best. For me, Flagstad's 1937 Immolation Scene is her best studio version. She did a great 1950 live scene on a radio broadcast, when she was in surprisingly fresh voice given the date.

Lubin and Lawrence did wonderful recordings of this scene, as did Fuchs, whose 1937 studio recording is one of the best best.

I can't choose either, at least not right now. I'll listen again later and see if anything strikes me differently.


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## Revitalized Classics (Oct 31, 2018)

Leider for me, I love the focus of her voice, she takes on the challenge with alacrity and above all sounds wide-awake and energetic.

Flagstad's remains a great performance, better conducted given the recording conditions, I just tend to prefer Leider.


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## vivalagentenuova (Jun 11, 2019)

Listening again, I have to say Leider. It's hard for me to listen to Flagstad without importing memories of other earlier performances, but on the basis of this recording I think Leider's performance was better. Her voice is fresher, and honestly I enjoyed the faster tempo.


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