# Parsifal: trivia



## Orgel (Dec 29, 2006)

The musical phrase _re-mi-fa-sol-sol_ (also the last five notes of the Dresden Amen) appears many times in this opera. Does anyone know how many times? I'm just curious. Thanks for any info!


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I _so much_ wish I could provide some authoritative info concerning the specifics of your question, but regrettably, I cannot. To begin with, the "Dresden Amen" (which Mendelssohn fans recognize also features prominently in the "Reformation" symphony) is, in *Parsifal*, quoted most precisely in the "Grail motive." There is a book on the _Ring_ cycle which prints out music samples for _its_ motives and numbers them, then prints out the text/translation, with the appropriate numbers in the right-hand margin, matching the use of the relevant motive at that time. If such notation is available for *Parsifal* generally, and the "Grail motive" in particular, I'm unaware of it.

This, of course, by no means would exhaust the applications of the "Dresden Amen," even if such information could be found. In addition to the quotations and modulations of it, there would doubtless be (as there often is in late period Wagner) derivative application, and what Deryck Cooke describes as "composite motives" which contain elements of two or more previously essayed motives.

Still, thanks for the opportunity to talk about *Parsifal*. And while I'm here, perhaps I can modestly offer up some less formidable trivia. Two-part question- answer either one, but one at a time.

It was Wagner's expressed intention that *Parsifal* not be performed outside of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus. Where was the first performance of this opera away from Bayreuth? What was the response of Bayreuth management to that performance?


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

Chi: Wasn't it in New York at the Met? I remember reading something about that... I would imagine Bayreuth management (i.e. Wagner's family) was fairly PO's about that.

Speaking of Wagner, I found today that one of my local libraries has ALL FOUR Ring operas. Suprisingly, almost nobody takes them out. Naturally, I couldn't resist the opportunity to hear all four within a week, so I'm listening to Das Rheingold today and tomorrow, Die Walküre Monday and Tuesday, and Siegfried and Götterdämmerung by Thursday. Quite a nice find


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

BuddhaBandit said:


> Chi: Wasn't it in New York at the Met?


Yes, it was! Your memory served you very well, here.


BuddhaBandit said:


> I would imagine Bayreuth management (i.e. Wagner's family) was fairly PO'd about that.


Yes, they were (Cosima especially).

Re: your "find" of the 'Ring' operas at the library... may I offer some unsolicited advice and encourage you to take on Das Rheingold at one sitting? If one can handle a Verdi opera at one sitting, one can achieve parallel handling of Rheingold in that manner. Save one of your two-day listening spans for Götterdämmerung. Re: my memories of the first audition of the Ring- like reading one of Shakespeare's dense 5-act tragedies, the full depth and scope of its artistry was not revealed to me at the first pass-through. Still, please don't let that discourage you from sharing some "Wagner moments" with us by way of The Ring thread.


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## Orgel (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm not sure how many companies do the four in a row. Seattle is doing its umpteenth presentation this summer. It spans a week, but I don't remember which nights are involved. They do the complete opera, whichever it is, at once. The first year they did it, I believe that had a "dinner break" during _Twilight_. Big mistake, it was.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

It is a testimony to the universality of Wagner's art that *Parsifal* elicits varying reactions. On our board, in the "diary of one who has disappeared" (well, not so much disappeared as relocated), *Parsifal* was the first work cited when discussing Wagner and atheism. (hint). Yet, Nietzsche, of course, penned his famous invective, wherein he called *Parsifal* (among other things) "a reversion to sickly Christian and obscurantist ideals."

All of our views on art are affected to some extent by our preconceptions. Having had the chance to read some recent commentary on *Parsifal*, I'd argue that, in the case of _this_ music-drama, preconceptions play an even larger than normal role in our observations. This, of all Wagner's works, may be the most difficult one to achieve the Cooke-ean goal of "objectivity in interpretation."

P.S.: answer to second half of trivia in 24 hours, unless someone arrives sooner with the correct answer.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> P.S.: answer to second half of trivia in 24 hours, unless someone arrives sooner with the correct answer.


O.K.: time's up! The response of Bayreuth (Cosima more specifically) to the Metropolitan presentation was to arrange for the "blackballing" of the performers involved in the New York presentation from future appearances at Bayreuth.


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## BuddhaBandit (Dec 31, 2007)

Chi_town/Philly said:


> O.K.: time's up! The response of Bayreuth (Cosima more specifically) to the Metroploitan presentation was to arrange for the "blackballing" of the performers involved in the New York presentation from future appearances at Bayreuth.


Interesting... as as one of the previous posters (ahem) so eloquently put it, "I'd imagine the Bayreuth management was pretty PO'd about that".

BTW, Chi, I took your advice and listened to Das Rheingold and Die Walküre in one sitting (seperately, obviously). I've also listened to Siegfried and the first act of Götterdammerüng... so far Siegfried is my favorite (Kirsten Flagstad sure has a great voice). After I've listened to GD, I'll post my expert opinion and analysis  in the "Ring Cycle" thread.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

This is the first Parsifal thread that came up in the search. If anyone's interested YouTube have the 1998 Bayreuth production conducted by Sinopoli at the moment. It was posted on October 2nd but it might not hang around too long.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

"Parsifal trivia"? That's an oxymoron, surely. Sort of like "Salome profundities."


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Not finding anywhere else to post this and since it is a piece of trivia I guess:

MET to produce a "sea of blood" Parsifal.

Story.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

That production by François Girard premiered in Lyon in 2012. It first came to the Met in 2013. I was able to see it twice and thought it was really excellent. They have released a DVD. It also played in Toronto in 2016. 

This is its first return to the Met.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

mountmccabe said:


> That production by François Girard premiered in Lyon in 2012. It first came to the Met in 2013. I was able to see it twice and thought it was really excellent. They have released a DVD. It also played in Toronto in 2016.
> 
> This is its first return to the Met.


Me too, in the cinema and now on DVD of course.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> "Parsifal trivia"? That's an oxymoron, surely. Sort of like "Salome profundities."


You have a charming way with words that is extremely appealing to me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> You have a charming way with words that is extremely appealing to me.


You mean it isn't about my bedroom eyes?


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

Fritz Kobus said:


> MET to produce a "sea of blood" Parsifal.
> 
> Story.


A remake! <3 Will they bin those space backgrounds and hire a conductor faster than Gatti? It would be thrilling!

*#AccurateHeadlines*

"Watch the Met Opera Stage a Sea of Blood" => "Bloody Parsifal back in the Met"


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Not finding anywhere else to post this and since it is a piece of trivia I guess:
> 
> MET to produce a "sea of blood" Parsifal.
> 
> Story.


I remember it last time around. There were three people booked for the broadcast at the cinema!


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

DavidA said:


> I remember it last time around. There were three people booked for the broadcast at the cinema!


My local theater hasn't drawn huge crowds for Verdi or Tchaikovsky, either.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

amfortas said:


> My local theater hasn't drawn huge crowds for Verdi or Tchaikovsky, either.


Ours usually has a reasonable audience. But not that time.


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

amfortas said:


> My local theater hasn't drawn huge crowds for Verdi or Tchaikovsky, either.


In Málaga, our theatre did for many of them. The place was packed.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Granate said:


> In Málaga, our theatre did for many of them. The place was packed.


Here the same, completely sold out even the two places for wheelchairs were occupied.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Granate said:


> In Málaga, our theatre did for many of them. The place was packed.





Pugg said:


> Here the same, completely sold out even the two places for wheelchairs were occupied.


Well, it's the Metropolitan Opera, so of course it means more to people in Spain and the Netherlands than it does to us in the U.S.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

amfortas said:


> Well, it's the Metropolitan Opera, so of course it means more to people in Spain and the Netherlands than it does to us in the U.S.


Then why did Mr Ades "Angel "oprea sold only 14 seats in the same theatre?


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Then why did Mr Ades "Angel "oprea sold only 14 seats in the same theatre?


I don't know, but 14 seats would be about average for opera showings in my theater.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

amfortas said:


> I don't know, but 14 seats would be about average for opera showings in my theater.


Tea is spilled on my screen now, love dry humour. :lol:
Off topic but L'elisir da more, is sold out this Saturday.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2018)

It was broadcast on BBC Radio 3 on Saturday - did any one listen?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09rwjcd

I no longer have the technology to watch one channel and record another...and my family were less keen to have Wagner on in the background for 6 hours while we had a farewell dinner for my son.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MacLeod said:


> It was broadcast on BBC Radio 3 on Saturday - did any one listen?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09rwjcd
> 
> I no longer have the technology to watch one channel and record another...and my family were less keen to have Wagner on in the background for 6 hours while we had a farewell dinner for my son.


Look at this::tiphat:

The Metropolitan Opera Broadcast listeners thread..................


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