# Who is the greatest non western composer of music and why ?



## Ritwik Ghosh (May 14, 2014)

I invite names and hopefully reasoned arguments.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

You mean like, the greatest non-Western composer of Western Classical Music? Or the greatest composer of non-Western classical music?


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

Perhaps Tchaikovsky due to him being born further East than most of the Middle East.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

That dude from Betelgeuse that set Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz poetry to music must be a prime suspect?

/ptr


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

"Well reasoned" : are you kidding? I'm not an historian.

Someone who has made a massive impact on Turkish classical music is _Tanburi_ Cemil Bey. There were countless Chinese guqin masters, but I cannot name any. Japanese biwa and koto...?

Sorry, but that's the best I can do


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Toru Takemitsu.

Because *I* like his music. Well, several others do too come to think of it.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Weston said:


> Toru Takemitsu.
> 
> Because *I* like his music. Well, several others do too come to think of it.


You sly dog :lol: Since he is in the Western Classical tradition, I never thought of him. He did write some pieces for gagaku orchestra, but I don't know where they fit in: Western crossover or pure Japanese in style.


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## Gangwolf (Apr 26, 2014)

Non western? Well, that rules out Ennio Morricone...


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> You sly dog :lol: Since he is in the Western Classical tradition, I never thought of him. He did write some pieces for gagaku orchestra, but I don't know where they fit in: Western crossover or pure Japanese in style.


Both and neither? Most of the _In an Autumn Garden_ suite uses the traditional sound of Gagaku, but it's definitely composed from the standpoint of a modernist in the Western tradition looking in rather than someone from the inside of the Gagaku tradition.

He wrote a few other pieces for traditional instruments (Voyage, Eclipse), but not very many. It's interesting that some of his works for concert flute (Voice, Masque, Itinerant, Water Music) sound just as "Japanese" as the ones that use shakuhachi.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm a pretty big fan of Hossein Alizadeh.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

brotagonist said:


> "Well reasoned" : are you kidding?


considering that he has opened 15 threads in a day, I guess the answer is: yes.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

If it's non Classical, there are plenty of great Jazz composers (Ellington, Monk, Parker, Basie) and Reggae (Marley, Alton Ellis). Of Pop, Curtis Mayfield comes to mind.

If it's Classical, there are great composers from the (more) Eastern satelite nations that made up the former Soviet Union. For instances, from:

Azerbaijan: Fikret Amirov, Kara Karayev.
Armenia: Aram Khachaturian, Karen Khachaturian, Alexander Arutiunian, Arno Babadzhanyan.
Georgia: Kancheli, Taktakishvili, Alexi Machavariani.
Ukraine (arguably): Lyatoshinsky, Revutsky, Dankevich, Maiboroda.

Then of course, Japan has a nice tradition of composition of Classical music:
Toru Takemitsu, Qunihico Hashimoto (who taught emerging composers like Yasushi Akutagawa, Ikuma Dan and Akio Yashiro).


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

dholling said:


> If it's non Classical, there are plenty of great Jazz composers (Ellington, Monk, Parker, Basie) and Reggae (Marley, Alton Ellis).


I'm not sure why Jazz would count as non-Western. It has significant African roots, but is still basically Western.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Ahmed Adnan Saygun*

Would Ahmed Adnan Saygun count? He was Turkish.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

GreenMamba said:


> I'm not sure why Jazz would count as non-Western. It has significant African roots, but is still basically Western.


Yeah, but if it's also incorporated in places like Cuba or Brazil, which it has for over several decades, then at least in some respects one can make the argument that Jazz as a genre is more non-Western. And even some works in American Jazz leans towards Pan-Africanism (Randy Weston, Art Blakey). Bebop, as a style in particular, has more than enough of that flexibility and improvisation to make Jazz leaning more towards Western or the other way.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

dholling said:


> Yeah, but if it's also incorporated in places like Cuba or Brazil, which it has for over several decades, then at least in some respects one can make the argument that Jazz as a genre is more non-Western. And even some works in American Jazz leans towards Pan-Africanism (Randy Weston, Art Blakey). Bebop, as a style in particular, has more than enough of that flexibility and improvisation to make Jazz leaning more towards Western or the other way.


I thought Cuba and Brazil are western?


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Vesuvius said:


> I thought Cuba and Brazil are western?


Geographically. But their (heavier) infusion and later inclusion of African intrumentation and rhythms into their music and their conception of Jazz supports the argument of Jazz not necessarily Western music (not entirely anyhow). Like Classical Music, Jazz is a combination of technique, musical resources (folk music for example), and ideas, which give those genres such a huge range of possibility and flexibility in musical creation, interpretation and understanding, and performance.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

dholling said:


> Geographically. But their (heavier) infusion and later inclusion of African intrumentation and rhythms into their music and their conception of Jazz supports the argument of Jazz not necessarily Western music (not entirely anyhow). Like Classical Music, Jazz is a combination of technique, musical resources (folk music for example), and ideas, which give those genre such a huge range of possibility and flexibility.


I guess it depends on how far east and west we're talking about. For example, 19th century Russian nationalist didn't like the western influences of Germany. So, you can even say Africa is western as well, compared to the far east of the heavier Oriental regions. I don't know... aren't parts of Europe considered western?


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

Vesuvius said:


> I guess it depends on how far east and west we're talking about. For example, 19th century Russian nationalist didn't like the western influences of Germany. So, you can even say Africa is western as well, compared to the far east of the heavier Oriental regions. I don't know... aren't parts of Europe considered western?


I can't say that (all of) Africa (with 53 countries) is Western, especially in places with heavy Islamic traditions like Mali or Libya or those that are tribal with ancestral traditions (Kenya, Ethiopia). I agree with you on the Russian Nationalists. Europe is considered Western (as does the U.S. and Canada depending on whatever topic), but sometimes Russia has not been considered so due to the vastness of its area (from the Baltic to the Pacific), its diversity, and its history. Again, it depends on the topic.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

dholling said:


> I can't say that (all of) Africa (with 53 countries) is Western, especially in places with heavy Islamic traditions like Mali or Libya or those that are tribal with ancestral traditions (Kenya, Ethiopia). I agree with you on the Russian Nationalists. Europe is considered Western (as does the U.S. and Canada depending on whatever topic), but sometimes Russia has not been considered so due to the vastness of its area (from the Baltic to the Pacific), its diversity, and its history. Again, it depends on the topic.


Roger that. It can get confusing trying to sectionalize so many regions.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

...This thread is going nowhere fast.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> ...This thread is going nowhere fast.


Good thing you just saved it.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I think part of the issue is that non western cultures aren't 'composer-centric'. India's classical music is highly developed but one doesn't hear much about its composers as one does about its performers / musicians.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> I think part of the issue us that non western cultures aren't 'composer-centric'. India's classical music is highly developed but one doesn't hear much about its composers as one does performers / musicians.


Quite true I think. But some performers get credit for new compositions. In India, where the set of ragas seems pretty well defined, I read that Ravi Shankar added two or three to the canon -- over a very long and illustrious career!


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Because the west is a highly ego-driven, have to make sure I get the credit, based culture. The east is fine with simply being an instrument of the whole. 

Whoa, prove that one, V. Nope.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

KenOC said:


> Quite true I think. But some performers get credit for new compositions. In India, where the set of ragas seems pretty well defined, I read that Ravi Shankar added two or three to the canon -- over a very long and illustrious career!


Shankar was good, not great. He was certainly the most famous of Indian classical musicians but there were/are much better exponents of the Sitar: Vilayat Khan, Shahid Parvez and Nikhil Bannerjee, just to name a few.


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## Fratello (May 14, 2014)

Idk if you mean none western "classical music" or just Music , anyways here 2 nice musicians from my country.

First one , I first listened to his "Fish for New Year" album , it made me interested in him and his music. sorry for bad quality it was recorded in 1994. but it is a nice piece.






second one , I just found it , i simply have no idea who she is , after posting this im gonna go find out who she is ! look at it more like a good example


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