# What in your sincerest opinion, makes a person intelligent?



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I am just curious. I haven't thought this out carefully enough to make any sort of poll, and polls generally tend towards being sillier or wittier.

Several thoughts, mostly in the form of questions:

What do you think makes a person intelligent? How does this intelligence make itself known; what are the outward signs of it? And it seems like people who have strong opinions on intelligence, also have strong opinions on what most people commonly regard as intelligence, but isn't really intelligence, but something else, like how well educated you are, how wise you are, or how adept you are at a narrow but well thought of form of thinking that either isn't really intelligence, but a learned skill.

Do you think its worth even thinking about? Are there more important traits than intelligence, or 'intelligence' in its commonly thought of form? Hopefully that's enough to spur a discussion, although I admit this could be dangerous territory.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

If he/she can name, without any aid, 100 classical music composers within fifteen minutes.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I think curiosity is a primary element of intelligence. The most uninttelligent people I have come across are people for which the question "When's my show on" or "Where's the nearest booze store" are the most important questions they've ever asked themselves.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Vaneyes said:


> If he/she can name, without any aid, 100 classical music composers within fifteen minutes.


Well, I think I win!


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> I think curiosity is a primary element of intelligence. The most uninttelligent people I have come across are people for which the question "When's my show on" or "Where's the nearest booze store" are the most important questions they've ever asked themselves.


I agree. Curiosity is a great starting point for the skills we associate with intelligence to build from. Its a really good motivation.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I think* sensitivity* plus *quickness* - a *perceptive* person always strikes me as an intelligent one.
But in order for me to notice this, the person must also be outgoing and/or enthusiastic.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Maybe surprisingly, I think self-doubt can be a sign of intelligence. I've noticed people who are arrogant are often people who don't actually have the intelligence or knowledge to back up their proclamations. Intelligent people, on the other hand, often seem a little more aware of their capacity to be wrong and are more cautious about what they say. It's kind of like that saying, the more you learn the less you feel you know. I know lots of people have experienced that phenomenon.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2014)

Curiosity, yes; sensitivity, yes, in the sense of having antenna that pick up on the things (not sensitive as in soft or vulnerable). I'm not sure about 'quickness'. Being alert is one thing, but being analytical and slow to judgement take time.


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

Intelligence is many things, of course. I'll mention one thing that always impresses me: the ability to separate language from fact. It goes a long way.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

MacLeod said:


> Curiosity, yes; sensitivity, yes, in the sense of having antenna that pick up on the things (not sensitive as in soft or vulnerable). I'm not sure about 'quickness'. Being alert is one thing, but being analytical and slow to judgement take time.


To me, being analytical & slow to judgement is 'wise/wisdom'. But of course there are many ways to be intelligent.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Ingélou said:


> I think* sensitivity* plus *quickness* - a *perceptive* person always strikes me as an intelligent one.*But in order for me to notice this, the person must also be outgoing and/or enthusiastic*.


Well, maybe for an icebreaker...


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

Innocence, Fluidity, Playfulness, Curiosity, Neutrality, Self-Awareness .... I think.


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## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

violadude said:


> Maybe surprisingly, I think self-doubt can be a sign of intelligence. I've noticed people who are arrogant are often people who don't actually have the intelligence or knowledge to back up their proclamations. Intelligent people, on the other hand, often seem a little more aware of their capacity to be wrong and are more cautious about what they say. It's kind of like that saying, the more you learn the less you feel you know. I know lots of people have experienced that phenomenon.


I think this too. It is easy to be opinionated and blurt out your first thought, but it takes time to build a well-rounded opinion and when having done so you've already become aware of all the gaps you found in your understanding and realise you still may find out something later that turns your current opinion on its head. As Socrates said, 'the only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.' But I suppose, as has already been, wisdom is not the same as intelligence, but part of it.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Are there maybe two themes going? 

One seems to air more an the side of the analytical and thoughtful, the other makes mention of quickness and I associate fluidity with quickness. And then there is self awareness which is maybe something else.

I know some who are more the latter, and some who are more the former. I'm probably more in the former category.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Woodduck made a post in regards this question in the the thread "Are classical music listeners more intelligent?" that I agree with - essentially there are different kinds of intelligence, it is not a monolithic thing. I think terms like "intelligent" and "dumb" are generally too simplistic to describe people accurately. Most people are intelligent in some ways and dumb in others. This I think is more true today than ever as we live in an era of specialization, so individuals gain a lot of knowledge within specific fields. I also believe intelligence is something that can be increased, so again these kinds of terms are generally not very solid ways of describing people, but more specific traits.


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## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)

A question that has been asked for many generations
Is it the abilty to understand abstract problems
Is it self awareness
Is it intuition
If you "know" the answer to the qustion, then please let mankind know


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Just a general observation I've made is many people who seem to be genius in certain areas, seem to lack very basic skills in other areas. Many people who seem intelligent in an all around way seem to lack genius.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

I partially agree with the neuropsych definition which, while it still doesn't cover all aspects of intelligence, distinguishes between intelligence and knowledge, or ability vs. achievement, but overall, I agree with Ingelou's description because it has a mix of what's important in the clinical definition(one very important factor is actually speed), but also just from life experience of qualities people I consider intelligent tend to have. I mean Richard Feynman only had an above average, but still within the 'normal' range of IQ; but because of his unique personality, accomplished things that people associate with genius IQs.


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

trazom said:


> between intelligence and knowledge


Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, intelligence is not putting it in a fruit salad.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

violadude said:


> I think curiosity is a primary element of intelligence. The most uninttelligent people I have come across are people for which the question "When's my show on" or "Where's the nearest booze store" are the most important questions they've ever asked themselves.


How did you know what's always on my mind?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

I have always had trouble swallowing the pill that quickness is an essential component of intelligence. I don't think I am quick, so its a personal thing.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

Many people talk about different types of intelligence (e.g. emotional IQ, sports IQ, etc.), but I've always viewed intelligence as the ability to solve problems. Intelligent people will solve generic problems which less intelligent people will not or they will solve them sooner.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

clavichorder said:


> One seems to air more an the side of the analytical and thoughtful, the other makes mention of quickness and I associate fluidity with quickness. And then there is self awareness which is maybe something else.


By fluidity I mean more pliability & adaptability than quickness.

As far as I can see, self-awareness is a prerequisite for rationality (in the broadest sense), which means that I see no human being as rational. [However, since self and universe are not separate, there is no end to becoming rational. So the no-rational-being idea is not a negative attitude.]


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me it's extreme fluency in language. I respect those who speak their native language with verbal virtuosity as William F Buckley did; as Abraham Lincoln did, given his speeches; as Winston Churchill did.
That to me says "intelligence".

You don't like it? Well then, simply don't speak to me.


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## Marsden (Nov 25, 2011)

If intelligence is the ability to learn, then a basic requirement is the understanding that one always has more to learn. Following close upon that, inevitably, is the awareness that one really knows very little in the grand scheme of things. So, I'd say humility is a basic aspect of intelligence. Alas, I don't have enough of that, just yet


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

violadude said:


> Maybe surprisingly, I think self-doubt can be a sign of intelligence. I've noticed people who are arrogant are often people who don't actually have the intelligence or knowledge to back up their proclamations. Intelligent people, on the other hand, often seem a little more aware of their capacity to be wrong and are more cautious about what they say. It's kind of like that saying, the more you learn the less you feel you know. I know lots of people have experienced that phenomenon.


Indeed. The more intelligent you are (or become), the more you are aware of how little you know. Only fools are certain.
GG


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> If he/she can name, without any aid, 100 classical music composers within fifteen minutes.


Heck, just all the Bachs....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

What makes a person intelligent? Listening to great music, of course! But seriously, it's a loaded question with no simple answer.
Violadude mentioned arrogance, but that could be more of a character trait. I can think of two intelligent people I know, and one is a very nice agreeable person, and the other one is a jerk. Arrogant, condescending, and very hard to work with.

I forget the title, but I read an interesting book by Erich Fromm where he wrote about the different types of intelligence. Manipulative, and creative. Of course the later being preferable and beneficial to mankind.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I'm going to hand back a test to my students tomorrow, which I've marked and corrected. Many of my weaker students will complain that they couldn't do one of the questions because I hadn't shown them how to do it before the test. My stronger students figured it out. What is intelligence? One aspect of it is being able to solve problems you haven't seen before. 

Many think high marks in a course means doing more homework. or memorizing more. Often it is, but I do my best as a teacher not to let this happen. Intelligence and problem solving should yield higher marks.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Intelligence is a well-defined term.



senza sordino said:


> *Intelligence* and problem solving should yield higher marks.


Why? You can acquire the ability to solve problems, but isn't intelligence an innate trait?


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

senza sordino said:


> Intelligence and problem solving should yield higher marks.


Another area in which I am as of yet, lacking. I am in danger of failing a math class for the 3rd time in the last few years. Depressing, I know. But I don't think I am stupid, nor am I a total slacker. I have some problems, that I haven't been able to solve, and they ain't related to math...


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## Chordalrock (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd say speed is important in making someone seem intelligent in conversation or text chat. It's the difference between coming up with witty or funny stuff to say and not having the time to do so.

Anyway, haven't read it, but from what I gather, this is currently the definitive book on intelligence:

http://www.amazon.com/Factor-Science-Evolution-Behavior-Intelligence/dp/0275961036/

I mention this book because I no longer even think about the concept of intelligence without associating it with the g factor. If someone seems very intelligent, I assume they have a lot of 'g' and that explains it.

Wisdom is of course a different thing, as is knowledge, skill, determination, and so on.


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

clavichorder said:


> Another area in which I am as of yet, lacking. I am in danger of failing a math class for the 3rd time in the last few years. Depressing, I know. But I don't think I am stupid, nor am I a total slacker. I have some problems, that I haven't been able to solve, and they ain't related to math...


And this is a key problem with trying to define intelligence. There are so many aspects of it.

In a broad sense, what SENZA mentioned holds true, solving problems, ability to figure things out, and the ability to take "knowledge" and apply it in an efficacious manner.

But I have met people who couldn't do a math problem to save their life, yet are incredibly creative artistically, creative in solving other "real-world" issues, creative in understanding and "reaching" people, etc.

I know people who can't seem to remember a name or a date to save their life, yet they can size up a issue or topic, understand it's implications, see the "big picture" and verbalize or write about it so eloquently as to make it easily understandable to others.

One of my brothers doesn't know which end of a screwdriver to use, but he'll take any company about to go out of business and within a year or two have it back in the black and making a profit, regardless of industry or type of business.

It's too vast an issue to define easily or pithily. However, there is ONE thing I have noticed that has always *indicated* intelligence: *Wit*. I have never met a sharp or quick witted person who was dumb or stupid, or even "not that bright." Not to say every intelligent person is witty, but every witty person has been intelligent in my experience.

V


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

Oh, and to add something on a macro level on this topic: The older I get, the more I realize that intelligence isn't that important in life. To me, Goodness and decency are the most important things to have in life. The people I see succeed professionally and career-wise in life vary from the not-to-bright to the brilliant, and everywhere in between.

When it comes to the qualities of a person I want to associate with and have in my life, intelligence keeps dropping lower and lower on my list. I want good and decent people in my life, and intelligence or lack of it has never been an indication on whether or not those people possess those values. Intelligence does not, in and of itself, impress me. I am 1000 times more impressed by good and decent people.

V


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

To me, the most important type of intelligence is maturity, something I struggle to develop. To know whether something should be seen as positive or negative and how much importance should be attributed to it.

"There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - William Shakespeare


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Varick said:


> Oh, and to add something on a macro level on this topic: The older I get, the more I realize that intelligence isn't that important in life. To me, Goodness and decency are the most important things to have in life. The people I see succeed professionally and career-wise in life vary from the not-to-bright to the brilliant, and everywhere in between.
> 
> When it comes to the qualities of a person I want to associate with and have in my life, intelligence keeps dropping lower and lower on my list. I want good and decent people in my life, and intelligence or lack of it has never been an indication on whether or not those people possess those values. Intelligence does not, in and of itself, impress me. I am 1000 times more impressed by good and decent people.
> 
> V


I halfway agree, but at a certain point a lack of intelligence is just grating, especially here in the USA, land of the reality shows and celebrity worship.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Varick said:


> Oh, and to add something on a macro level on this topic: The older I get, the more I realize that intelligence isn't that important in life. To me, Goodness and decency are the most important things to have in life. The people I see succeed professionally and career-wise in life vary from the not-to-bright to the brilliant, and everywhere in between.
> 
> When it comes to the qualities of a person I want to associate with and have in my life, intelligence keeps dropping lower and lower on my list. I want good and decent people in my life, and intelligence or lack of it has never been an indication on whether or not those people possess those values. Intelligence does not, in and of itself, impress me. I am 1000 times more impressed by good and decent people.
> 
> V


This is a great insight. After the basic needs are fulfilled, how much more can a lofty intellect benefit someone? It seems the qualities of kindness and compassion have a much sweeter and instant reward.

However, it could be said that kindness is actually a sign that one has a more refined intelligence. Because what drives one to be kind if not a greater understanding of life?


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

violadude said:


> I halfway agree, but at a certain point a lack of intelligence is just grating, especially here in the USA, land of the reality shows and celebrity worship.


That's due to abysmal stupidity. Of course, a certain bit of sense is preferable.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Some people, of course, just *know* they are more intelligent than others! 
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...inor-grammar-points-are-amazing-2013082378916


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Ingélou said:


> Some people, of course, just *know* they are more intelligent than others!
> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...inor-grammar-points-are-amazing-2013082378916


Damn, I make a lot of little mistakes, I'm sure... but this thread wasn't intended to be clavichorder's confessional of his inferiority complex. Carry on!


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## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

violadude said:


> I halfway agree, but at a certain point a lack of intelligence is just grating, especially here in the USA, land of the reality shows and celebrity worship.


Well that's more on a macro level. I was referring more on a micro-individual level. Taking your example about reality shows and celebrity worship, that's the herd mentality. I just wish (regardless of intellect) that people would THINK more.

And even on a micro-level, I hear what your saying, but if someone has personality, that can make up for a lot. I have a brother-in-law who is a sweet, kind person and I do love him. But, not only is he *not* that bright, but he has the personality of belly lint. Another guy who lives a few houses from me certainly isn't splitting the atom anytime soon, but he is so damn funny, wacky, has a heart of gold, and a strong moral compass.

I dread talking at length with my brother-in-law, but I can hang out with my neighbor non-stop for a month. We have a great time together.

V

PS: But I'd still rather hang with my Brother-in-law than a highly intelligent scumbag.


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

One way of looking at this is:

One who knows not to hinder others' learning and growth is an intelligent person.
One who knows how to aid others' learning and growth is a wise person.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

If it's intelligence you seek, listen to the cavalier speak.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Ingélou said:


> Some people, of course, just *know* they are more intelligent than others!
> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...inor-grammar-points-are-amazing-2013082378916


And some of us are simply too humble to admit it in public.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

marinasabina said:


> To me, the most important type of intelligence is maturity, something I struggle to develop. To know whether something should be seen as positive or negative and how much importance should be attributed to it.
> 
> "There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - William Shakespeare


In that case I'm cretin-qualified.


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> And some of us are simply too humble to admit it in public.


hahaha

that was intelligent

one point pour toi


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Intelligence can manifest itself in different ways. What annoys me are people who assume they are on some kind of bottom rung for pre-ordained sociological reasons and use that as an excuse to stay there for the rest of their lives and have zero curiosity whatsoever.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> hahaha
> 
> that was intelligent
> 
> one point pour toi


I humbly accept this award.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

When I was a child, we had to practise copperplate handwriting by copying 'An Arabian Proverb', which seems to have something pertinent to say:

He who knows and knows that he knows - he is a wise man: seek him.
He who knows and knows not that he knows - he is asleep: wake him.
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not - he is a child: teach him.
But he who knows not, and knows not that he knows not - he is a fool: shun him.

Note that women are not included in the proverb, since we know all that is worth knowing in any case.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Oh crap! Clara s frequently refers to me as "child". Maybe she got it right out of Araby.

Ahhh. That would explain my humility....and innocence. :tiphat:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^^I'm not sure what it means, but my intuition is telling me it doesn't look good. :tiphat:


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## clara s (Jan 6, 2014)

hpowders said:


> Oh crap! Clara s frequently refers to me as "child". Maybe she got it right out of Araby.
> 
> Ahhh. That would explain my humility....and innocence. :tiphat:


yes... child hahaha

that also explains my arabic descent

straight out from one thousand and one nights


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Learning quickly, good at problem solving, having a good sense of spacial awareness, being able understand abstract concepts and thinking outside the box. To name just a few.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

clara s said:


> yes... child hahaha
> 
> that also explains my arabic descent
> 
> straight out from one thousand and one nights


Ahhhhh.....How many slices of chocolate cake could be consumed in 1001 nights?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> Learning quickly, good at problem solving, having a good sense of spacial awareness, being able understand abstract concepts and thinking outside the box. To name just a few.


You rang??? :tiphat:


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

hpowders said:


> You rang??? :tiphat:


I was mainly talking about myself [/joke]


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Ingélou said:


> When I was a child, we had to practise copperplate handwriting by copying 'An Arabian Proverb', which seems to have something pertinent to say:
> 
> He who knows and knows that he knows - he is a wise man: seek him.
> He who knows and knows not that he knows - he is asleep: wake him.
> ...


Well the fifth line of verse reads.

"He who knows that _She_ knows everything, knows which side his bread is buttered"


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Piwikiwi said:


> I was mainly talking about myself [/joke]


You ARE good!!!


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm afraid the aliens have long been using the Richter scale to measure intelligence, sorry.ut:


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2014)

being able to hold a topic in the mind without having to have an opinion.

imo.


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## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

hpowders said:


> You ARE good!!!


You aren't half bad yourself!


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