# Passacaglia vs Chaconne (relating to the forms)



## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

Maybe we've heard and discussed these forms alot on the forum, but sometimes I still get confused. So, please allow me to post a new thread. Any reply or information is highly appreciated, thanks.

I think by modern definition, Passacaglia is a set of variations on a fixed melody (subject), while Chaconne is a set of variations on a fixed harmonic progression. But I find that in the context of Baroque music, they are both sorted as "ground bass" form, and I can not really tell them apart. For example, Bach's Goldberg Variations are constructed on both a repeated bass line and a similar harmonic progression (maybe some slight changes occasionally). So, should we call it a "passacaglia" or "chaconne" or simply "ground bass"? The same thing happens on works like Pachelbel's Cannon in D, or even the final movement of Brahms's 4th Symphony (this time the subject melody can appear in upper voices).

Some materials listed other features to distinguish these forms, like Passacaglia is usually in a minor key with descending bass line...or Chaconne usually have accent on the second beat...I am not sure if these could be main differences.

My questions are: Is there any real difference between them in or before Baroque era? When were they developed into totally different forms?

Thanks for reading my post. The post is open for any ideas. Happy listening.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

There are some who claim to know the difference and will hold forth with great vigor. I am not one of those! I've looked into it a bit and it seems the best guide is whatever the composer called the works. Otherwise, there are plenty of definitions on the web, including Wiki.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Bruckner Anton said:


> My questions are: Is there any real difference between them in or before Baroque era? When were they developed into totally different forms?


As far as I am concerned, the difference between the two is not meaningful enough to be worthy of debate outside of academic circles. In fact, I can never remember which is which and I have come to use the terms interchangeably.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Why don't you simply relax and enjoy the music?


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

My sense is a chaconne tends to be a little looser. For example Bach's C minor organ passacaglia sticks very closely to the repeating bassline, whereas his D minor violin chaconne is all over the place. I think that chaconne is in theory based on a simple D-C-Bb-A descending bassline but you wouldn't immediately know it.


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