# Starting to know Lizst



## whispering

Hello
I am hoping some kind readers of this thread will give me some advice. I got into classical music via piano concertos, then piano quintets then finally piano sonatas by Betthoven, Mozart, Schubert, Schumann and then Lizst. This is going to sound odd, but despite my love of piano music I have until now failed to listen to anything by Lizst beyond the piano concertos. I recently decided to rectify that situation but OMG his output is vast. Where to start? I need some guidance where to begin? If you love Lizst then consider this. If you were guiding someone into his world what path of discovery would you send them on? Not the most challenging works first, but what gives a feel for this composer and points to something else to try. Perhaps you know of a CD compilation that would be a good base camp? I would appreciate any guidance offered.


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## joen_cph

Just buy some of the budget boxes of his works. They tend to be cheap.

Here´s one of the most well-known piano music, for example
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Liszt-Piano-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B004Y7F4HY

Here´s one of the orchestra & orchestra + piano works
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Liszt-Orchestral-Works-Orchestra-Germany/dp/B00564WMV0

Here´s one of the piano + orchestra works
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Liszt-Complete-works-Piano-Orchestra/dp/B001716JQK

There are so many beautiful works, of varying content and difficulty.

If you like the piano concertos, the _Totentanz, Hungarian Fantasy_ and _Malediction_ are fine works too.

There are tons of solo piano works, the_ Piano Sonata_ being a towering, complex work, that continues to fascinate. The _La Lugubre Gondola I-II_ (maybe start with those, as an intimate contrast to the big-sounding concertos), _Liebestraume_, whereas the pieces in the _Annees De Pelerinage I-II-III_ and the _Transcendental Etudes_ have fine, varied content.

For orchestral works, _Les Preludes, Orpheus_ and _Mazeppa_ are among the most captivating There are also two larger, more complex symphonies, _Dante_ and _Faust._

The chamber music is less known, but the_ Cello+Piano_ works are deservedly becoming more popular in recordings. The more salon-like _Violin Sonata_ isn´t bad either.

For big choral/orchestral works, the_ Christus Oratorio _is a tuneful masterpiece, lasting 3 hours. _Via Crucis_ is a more austere, but yet intense choral work, showing his less showy side.


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## whispering

Thank you for your recommendations.


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## eugeneonagain

You should find Liszt works for pennies at thrift shops. All the works recommended by joen_cph.

I used to dislike Liszt apart from a few pieces, but I've since re-evaluated him. _La Lugubre Gondola _is indeed a good starting point, as are the Hungarian Rhapsodies, of which No.2 is the most famous (and which you probably already know):


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## Headphone Hermit

Try Liszt's transcriptions of Schubert's lieder - these are wonderful pieces that are full of accessible tunes and packed with Liszt's own fingerprints. There is a very nice selection by Sofronitsky at


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## bharbeke

Ones I like outside of the piano concertos:

Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 (Gyorgy Cziffra)
Totentanz (Enrico Pace)
Etudes d'execution transcendante (Boris Berezovsky or Alice Sara Ott)
Grandes Etudes de Paganini (Daniil Trifonov)
Hungarian Fantasy (Gyorgy Cziffra, Orchestre de Paris)
Polonaise No. 1 (Jean Dube)
Rogoletto Paraphrase (Adam Gyorgy)


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## Mandryka

whispering said:


> Hello
> I am hoping some kind readers of this thread will give me some advice. I got into classical music via piano concertos, then piano quintets then finally piano sonatas by Betthoven, Mozart, Schubert, Schumann and then Lizst. This is going to sound odd, but despite my love of piano music I have until now failed to listen to anything by Lizst beyond the piano concertos. I recently decided to rectify that situation but OMG his output is vast. Where to start? I need some guidance where to begin? If you love Lizst then consider this. If you were guiding someone into his world what path of discovery would you send them on? Not the most challenging works first, but what gives a feel for this composer and points to something else to try. Perhaps you know of a CD compilation that would be a good base camp? I would appreciate any guidance offered.


Liszt is the composer of one of the greatest modern piano recordings ever made, his religious piano music played by Michel Block









I was always repelled by the virtuoso Liszt style, and still am in fact. The first recording of his music that I really enjoyed was called The Contemplative Liszt, by Sergio Fiorentino.









For a while I was interested in the sonatas. For the big B minor sonata I most of all enjoyed this one by Ernst Levy -- but people who like the virtuoso style tend to have other preferences (like Argerich)






Someone else mentioned the Schubert song transcriptions, and they aren't uninteresting. There's an outstanding recording by Simone Pedrone









I like his songs. I first got to know them though the few that Luciano Pavarotti sang on this live recital from New York

View attachment 104275


Subsequently I found a really fabulous Liszt only recital disc from Matthew Polenzani

View attachment 104276


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## Josquin13

I'd suggest that you begin with the Liszt playing and recordings by pianists Claudio Arrau and Alfred Brendel. Here's why: According to Arrau, the solo piano music of Liszt was misrepresented and misunderstood by many pianists of the 20th century (& by the generations of pianists that followed after them; including, as a result, most pianists today). In the 1930s, Liszt's student, Emil von Sauer, told one of his pupils that Liszt wouldn't recognize his own music the way it was being played by the virtuosos of the day, since according to Sauer, they played it "too fast and too loud". (Was he referring to the young Horowitz, I wonder?) That is no minor criticism. In other words, these 'big virtuosos' were guilty of using Liszt's music as a vehicle to 'show off' their virtuosity, in some overwrought, overblown, overly loud, even clangorous, speedy technical display--that had more to do with the excesses of late Romanticism, rather than the true nature and quality of Liszt's subtle, poetic, artistic & literary-minded music.

According to another Liszt student, pianist Frederic Lamond, his teacher would grow intolerant and angry when students showed off their virtuosity at the expense of finding a deeper, more profound, imaginative, insightful & metaphorical understanding of the music:






As evidence, you need only listen to the actual playing of Liszt's best students--& there are many examples of their Liszt on You Tube--to note how rarely they pound the keys (if ever), but instead more thoughtfully pick out only the occasional true climaxes in Liszt's music, to play more forcefully. With that in mind, here are a few clips of Liszt students--Lamond, Freidheim, Sauer, & Rosenthal--playing the music of their teacher:






















1. Interestingly, Lamond's memories of his teacher are in accordance with the teaching of Liszt's last and favorite pupil, Martin Krause, who taught his student Claudio Arrau to play as if he always had plenty of technical reserve left that he wasn't using (according to Arrau). Considering that Krause worked specifically with Arrau on Liszt's famous "Sonata in B minor", Arrau's various recordings of this work are essential listening towards gaining a better understanding of this music. For me, Arrau's early Philips recording of the B minor Sonata is a deeply moving experience, which Arrau in part achieves by never using all his reserves, or overly pounding the keys in some outsized (ugly) display of virtuosity.

Arrau himself explained that Liszt's music was misunderstood by the pianists of his day, in Joseph Horowitz's book "Conversations with Arrau": which I'd strongly recommend, not only for its chapter on Liszt and Arrau's boyhood studies with Krause in Berlin, but also as an excellent introduction to music, in general.

https://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Arrau-Joseph-Horowitz/dp/0879100133

Here is Arrau playing the "Sonata in B minor":






& Liszt's beautiful "Bénédiction de Dieu dans la solitude":






This Japanese import of Arrau's Philips recording has the best sound quality, IMO, especially if you can find the hybrid SACD issue:

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Sonata...3&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=Arrau+liszt+b+minor

Likewise, the following Heritage box set offers the best sound remasters of Arrau's complete Liszt on Philips that I've heard to date (except for a single Pentatone 'hybrid SACD' issue). Which is important because Arrau had a special, unique piano timbre. Though unfortunately, the Heritage set is pricey at the moment--as its out of print, so if interested, you'll have to watch for a price break, which I've noticed does happen from time to time:

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Works-...pID=51QG4C7EX0L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Otherwise, your best option is this 'discount' CD:

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Sonata...3&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Arrau+liszt+b+minor

Though I wasn't altogether happy with the sound quality of the above issue (preferring the Japanese hybrid SACD, as noted).

However, I've not heard the remasters used for the more recent 2014 Decca box set, & don't know if they're as good as the Heritage box set, or even possibly the same remasters?:

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Solo-R...pID=51Mww1Vg3uL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

But I can report that the Eloquence AMSI remasters aren't as good as the ones in the Heritage box set:

https://www.amazon.de/Arrau-spielt-...F8&qid=1527710207&sr=1-1&keywords=Arrau+liszt

2. Pianist Alfred Brendel also understood how to play Liszt's music, having studied Liszt's scores with another student of Martin Krause, Edwin Fischer. Brendel's insightful essays on Liszt are well worth reading too.






https://www.amazon.de/Brendel-spiel...&qid=1527710056&sr=8-1&keywords=brendel+liszt

3. In addition, I'd recommend Liszt's "12 Transcendental Etudes", recorded by Jorge Bolet, & especially the "Harmonies du soir" etude, which is essential Liszt (Bolet plays it about as well as anyone, except for perhaps Sviatoslav Richter:https://www.amazon.com/Sviatoslav-Richter-Plays-Brahms-Schubert/dp/B00VF9AVZY --who, btw, is also great in the two Liszt Piano Concertos:https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Concer...trip-0&keywords=richter+liszt+piano+concertos ):

Here's a clip of Bolet playing "Harmonie du soir" in 1972:






And Bolet's 1985 Decca recording:

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Piano-...33&sr=1-1&keywords=bolet+liszt+transcendental

4. Also essential is Liszt's "Années du Pèlerinage" (or "Years of Pilgrimage"), which is comprised of three books: Book 1, the "Swiss Years", and Books 2 & 3, the "Italian years". Unfortunately, Arrau never recorded all three books in their entirety, only parts from them. Therefore, I'd recommend hearing Jorge Bolet in Book 1, the "Swiss years", and Zoltan Kocsis in the darker, more sombre late Book 3; which nevertheless includes three of Liszt's most influential piano pieces, composed at the Villa d'Este outside Rome: "Aux cyprès de la Villa d'Este I & II", and a special favorite of mine, "Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este" (which likely influenced Maurice Ravel's Jeux d'eau)--played here by Zoltan Kocsis:










and Lazar Berman:





I'd also recommend sampling Alfred Brendel in Books 1 & 2 (coupled with the 3rd book played by Kocsis--see link below), and/or all three books played by Russian pianist Lazar Berman, in his complete DG set (recently reissued by Eloquence--though frustratingly these 1970s analogue recordings have never sounded as good on CD as they once did on LP). There is also a 1990 Chandos recording of Book 2 "Italie" by the Canadian pianist Loris Lortie, which I like very much. Indeed, I'd consider Lortie to be an underrated Liszt player, and arguably one of the better Liszt pianists today, that is, with the recent loss of Zoltan Kocsis, and Brendel's retirement.

https://www.amazon.com/Années-Pele...8&qid=1527710635&sr=1-3&keywords=liszt+kocsis
https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Annees...8&qid=1527724150&sr=1-1&keywords=kocsis+liszt

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Annees...1527710882&sr=1-4&keywords=Lazar+berman+liszt

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Piano-...8&qid=1527710740&sr=1-18&keywords=Bolet+liszt
https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Piano-...iszt&dpID=412C4Y18V9L&preST=_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Venezi...8&qid=1527710740&sr=1-22&keywords=Bolet+liszt

https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Annees...pID=51nOrHdcA6L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch














Lortie's more recent 2010 recording of all three books has divided listeners & critics: personally, I preferred his set to other recent accounts by pianists Julian Gorus and Bertrand Chamayou, finding that I liked it a bit more on further listening (though Muza Rubackyte & Michel Dalberto are excellent in this music, among other digital accounts, & I may prefer Rubackyte's set over Lortie's...). I admit that Lortie does at times play Liszt "too fast and loud" for my tastes--often striking the keys quite forcefully on his new set. I don't recall that being an issue on his earlier 1990 Chandos recording of Book 2, nor on his exciting, early Chandos recording of the Liszt Sonata in B minor, either. But you can decide for yourself, since Lortie's 'complete' Années du Pèlerinage is on You Tube in its entirety:










5. I'd also recommend Liszt's "Deux Légendes": No. 1--"St. Francis of Assisi's sermon to the birds", and No. 2--"St. Francis of Paola walking on the waves":






6. Finally, I'd recommend that you listen to pianist Andrea Bonatta play Liszt's late "Harmonies poétiques et religieuses", S. 173 (on a period piano):






That should get you started...

But, after you've tackled all of that, you might additionally enjoy hearing Liszt's piano transcriptions of Wagner & Verdi Operas, Schubert Songs, and Beethoven Symphonies 1-9, along with his "Concert Studies", "Etudes de concert", and "Consolations" (as played by Bolet:https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Concer...8&qid=1527716364&sr=1-11&keywords=bolet+liszt ).


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## Judith

I have a lovely CD. Michael Lewin plays Liszt. Short pieces of piano music but lovely. Not a musician who is mentioned often but came across him on Twitter!


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## DavidA

There are so many tremendous discs of Liszt playing one hardly knows where to start. There are so many great Liszt pianists - including Richter, Cziffra, Horowitz, Earl Wild, et al. One of the finest was Rubinstein though better known for Chopin. His 'Liszt Album' is certainly worth hearing. Also Volodos made a really beautiful Liszt album.


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## BiscuityBoyle

He's got some gorgeous melodies. Two of my favorites are






and






Wouldn't worry about making sense of his multiple cycles of etudes and program pieces, just enjoy the individual pieces.


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## Josquin13

In my fumbling to recommend a complete digital recording of Liszt's "Années du Pèlerinage" yesterday (in my post above), I forgot to mention an excellent recent set from American pianist Jerome Lowenthal, who recorded his set in his late 70s (it's an older, wiser man's view of the music): https://www.amazon.com/Annees-Peler...id=1527797481&sr=1-1&keywords=lowenthal+liszt

Lowenthal is another pianist that understands Liszt's music, and accordingly opts for interpretative depth over the expression of "wild energy and flamboyance", as critic Patsy Morita puts it. Indeed, Lowenthal's set is a good bet for those looking for very good performances in audiophile sound. Of added interest, Lowenthal writes copious program notes that provide an excellent, informative background to the music:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0581/3921/files/9307.pdf?13655991873634633029

I also forgot to mention recent recordings by Stephen Hough, Michael Korstick, and Oliver Schnyder, all fine pianists (in addition to Lortie, Chamayou, Rubackyte, Dalberto, and Lowenthal).

But my worst omission was to forget about Wilhelm Kempff's excellent DG recording of Book 2, which Pentatone has superbly remastered in recent years. Kempff is another pianist that doesn't fall prey to the bombast in Liszt. Indeed, Alfred Brendel called Kempff's Book 2 the "best we have"--it is strongly recommended: https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Années...=1527798732&sr=1-1&keywords=kempff+liszt+sacd

My other glaring omission was to forget to mention pianist Nelson Friere's exceptional 2011 all-Liszt recital released by Decca, which offers great Liszt playing in 'state of the art' audiophile sound (excellent sound quality shouldn't be underestimated in Liszt's music, which many listeners find out the hard way...). Like Bolet, Friere plays Liszt's "Harmonies du soir" and "6 Consolations" exceptionally well. Again, it is strongly recommended (I may even prefer Friere's "6 Consolations" to Bolet's, which is saying something): https://www.amazon.com/Liszt-Harmon...935&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=nelson+friere+liszt


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## Headphone Hermit

^^^ fantastic post by Josquin13 in #8 (and #12) - very good insight into what makes a wonderful interpretation of Liszt's music and a tremendous guide to those who wish to explore these treasures. :tiphat:


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## Josquin13

Headphone Hermit--Thanks. I'm pleased that someone noticed. Merl too... I'm convinced that the more people listen to Liszt's music, the more they'll come around to agreeing with Liszt and his students' views on piano playing, and Krause & his students too. The problem with the "big virtuosos" of the 20th century is that they left such a wide, permeating mark on Liszt interpretation, that so few pianists and teachers today realize their approach was at odds with Liszt's teaching and the way he played the piano, and presumably his own music. I think people even avoid Liszt's music, because it's so often played loud and clangorously, which is a pity. But then, pianists tend to misconstrue Beethoven's music on the same grounds. Indeed, there's an unbroken chain from Mozart (& Haydn) to Beethoven to Czerny to Liszt...


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## whispering

Just a thank you for all the helpful replies posted to my thread. I now have a range of CDs to consider by different artists. In particular thank you for the very informative comments. Clearly other members had considered my request for guidance carefully. That is very much appreciated.


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## Headphone Hermit

Josquin13 said:


> Headphone Hermit--Thanks. I'm pleased that someone noticed. Merl too... I'm convinced that the more people listen to Liszt's music, the more they'll come around to agreeing with Liszt and his students' views on piano playing, and Krause & his students too. The problem with the "big virtuosos" of the 20th century is that they left such a wide, permeating mark on Liszt interpretation, that so few pianists and teachers today realize their approach was at odds with Liszt's teaching and the way he played the piano, and presumably his own music. I think people even avoid Liszt's music, because it's so often played loud and clangorously, which is a pity. But then, pianists tend to misconstrue Beethoven's music on the same grounds. Indeed, there's an unbroken chain from Mozart (& Haydn) to Beethoven to Czerny to Liszt...


Yes, I think you are correct. Lots of performers seem to go for the 'get it loud, make it explode, show off how fast you can do it' approach and this approach is so very different from the ways that his pupils played his music (and by inference, from how he played his own music). As you rightly point out, this can be heard in many different interpretations using historical recordings and from reading the writings of those who knew Liszt well and who knew his pupils well. Possibly, this was a reflection of the swing against Romanticism that was apparent in many forms of art in the mid-twentieth century onwards in which Romanticism was portrayed as being 'over-emotional' and full of saccharine excesses. And yet there is little evidence that this was how his music was played by him or his pupils either. It seems clear that neither the loud and clangourous nor the chocolate box gaudiness is anything like the correct approach.

It is a shame because there is so much wonderful music and I have had immense pleasure exploring some of Liszt's music (such as the transcriptions of songs and of the operatic and symphonic works) as well as his religious music and his own songs.

Thank you for your posts - I shall use them to explore further


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## haydnguy

Wow! What a gold mine this thread is! When I stopped "listening" I was beginning to start listening to Liszt. I decided that's where I'm going to start back. I know I have quite a bit of Liszt but not sure what all. I'm going to study over what everyone has said and make a few purchases based on recommendations and listening to the youtube videos. Thanks everyone for sharing! :tiphat:


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## Josquin13

One more pianist to add to the mix: the young Swiss pianist Francesco Piemontesi is soon coming out with a CD & DVD video recording of Années de Péleringage, Book 1--the "Swiss" years. I thought the following You Tube clip was interesting--it's part of a new film by Bruno Monsaingeon, as it includes snippets of some of the music and sounds and visual scenery that likely influenced Liszt:






To date, I've only heard Piemontesi's Debussy Preludes, but my impression was that he has a delicate, sensitive touch, and is a thoughtful pianist, so his Liszt might be very interesting (I'll be curious to read the reviews):

https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/c...rinage-premiere-annee-suisse-legende-2#videos


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## Eva Yojimbo

Fantastic thread, though I find I have precious little to add to all the insightful posts and recommendations. I do agree that Liszt was among the most spiritual and poetic of composers who has sadly been turned into a superficial vehicle for empty displays of virtuosity, and that pianists like Claudio Arrau and Brendel return Liszt to his nature. That said, I will also admit that Liszt played for virtuosity can be fun and exciting, especially if you, like me, delight in hearing such technical fireworks. In that sense, Cziffra may be the best "Liszt as virtuoso showcase" exponent there was: 





Lisitsa is also a fun one to watch in the virtuoso category. Here she is playing (according to her) perhaps Liszt's most demanding piece:


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## ahinton

whispering said:


> Just a thank you for all the helpful replies posted to my thread. I now have a range of CDs to consider by different artists. In particular thank you for the very informative comments. Clearly other members had considered my request for guidance carefully. That is very much appreciated.


Spelling his name correctly would be a good start! Remarkable composer, though...


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## RogerExcellent

Listen to small piano piece of Lizst first, always helps make it better


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## Norman Gunston

I always make a list before i lizsten to lizst


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## Classicalinheart

No wonder that Lizst has appealed to you in such a manner! His creation of music is phenomenal and probably will always be considered that way! 

With that being said, I can suggest that you check your local music shops and if you have some classical music shops too. They will have his music for sale for pennies. Not because its not valuable but because its meant to be avaiable for everyone!


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## Vahe Sahakian

"This Japanese import of Arrau's Philips recording has the best sound quality, IMO, especially if you can find the hybrid SACD issue:"

Any idea of how and where to find this particular SACD of B Minor Sonata?


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## Fredx2098

I'm a big fan of the Années de Pèlerinage. I've heard some people describe Liszt as unnecessary virtuosity, but I believe he composes in a rather nice and pleasant way that is just as subtle as it is impressive.


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