# CPE Bach, an appreciation



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I've never had CPE Bach fever, though I've always (vaguely) appreciated his unusual approach to music. He's never seemed to fit the mold of "galante" music either. Now I'm getting a bit more enthusiastic, thanks to a couple of CDs of his transverse flute concertos played by flautist Alexis Kossenko with the Arte dei Suonatori. Here's a sample.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

His complete String Symphonies op 183 are available on youtube:





The more I've listened to this particular group of orchestral pieces, I realize how excellent they are. My favorite is no. 4 in A major. Its perhaps the most unpredictable.

Overall, CPE Bach is deservedly the "highest ranking" composer of the Bach sons. But you might get the W.F. Bach bug as well, his music is like a more condensed version of his younger brother's, both in output and in contrapuntal density/harmonic oddity. Both brothers are truly deserving of more fans, but WF's natural genius was possibly one of the greatest of his time.

All those Bach sons had their own unique spark, the elder two from the foundations of their father's teaching first hand, the younger 2 famous ones more from Carl Phillip perhaps.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

His numerous keyboard sonatas are quite something. They are like a bridge between the Classical and early Romantic.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Great Composer. And some of his music sounds quite galante to me. Though he didn't stick with one style imo. Similar to Haydn but maybe more daring.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

His music is still very contrapuntal, not so much as that of his father but in a Vivaldi way to my ears, and so I still categorize it as baroque even though I know it's from a later period. I used to enjoy his music a lot more when I had baroque fever. Now it sounds a little harsh or almost explosive to me. I find W. F. Bach far stranger and more interesting these days. Johann Christian is out of the question for me, all vesitges of baroque long fled.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2013)

I really enjoy the recordings of Miklos Spanyi on BIS of his various keyboard works - both the solo works and the concerti. For those who have not explored the classical period outside of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven, I highly recommend C. P. E.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Rapide said:


> His numerous keyboard sonatas are quite something. They are like a bridge between the Classical and early Romantic.


Yes! These are excellent but highly underecorded, especially on modern piano. Miklos Spanyi does many on the clavichord, but his playing tends to be slow and nuanced and I feel that the vitality of these compositions is lost as a result sometimes(however, they are excellent to meditate to in a trance like listening state as all well written slow clavichord music can be, still CPE has much proto Beethoven in him that must be heard). It would be great on clavichord if they had a more suitable to my ears interpretation CPE Bach's _Empfindsamer Stil_(million dollar word, look it up).

Pletnev has some modern piano sonatas but he doesn't do them to my liking. There is one gemlike CPE recording by Cziffra(no joke), and that's one way in which CPE can sound even romantic. The material is there, one just needs to play it with feeling above all.


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## Corvus (Aug 9, 2012)

How about the wonderful recording of harpsichord concertos by Andreas Staier and the Freiburger Barock Orchester? I never tire of this recording!
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=544884


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Corvus said:


> How about the wonderful recording of harpsichord concertos by Andreas Staier and the Freiburger Barock Orchester? I never tire of this recording!
> http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=544884


Haven't heard it but I forgot about the concertos. They are his largest body of work, and I know that some of his greatest music is to be found in there. But some more routine stuff as well. This body of concertos is truly second only to Mozart's with concertos of that time period.

There is a C minor one, of some numbering, that seems to have directly inspired some of the ideas in Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto(certain features in the middle mvt.), and is a very fine work in its own right. Spanyi plays that one quite well, but a faster tempo might be better yet.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Telemann's influence on CPE Bach seems really plausible to me. Telemann was his god father as well, I think. CPE more often has more meat on him, but this sort of inextinguishable ingenuity with basic musical material is something they both share.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

CPE Bach's flute music is superb. His sonata in A minor for unaccompanied flute is wonderful.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Here is an excellent piece, the 2nd and 3rd movements of a harpsichord concerto, a video performance by a very small ensemble who does a great job. You can almost hear an equal bent towards baroque and classicism in this piece. Very intriguing and delightful 3rd movement.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

This is the single best recording I've come across in all my decades of listening exemplifying C.P.E's distinctive approach:









Amandine Beyer, violin
Edna Stern, fortepiano

on Zig Zag Territiores


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

I have just acquired a box set of CPE Bach







I haven't got very far with it yet, but I am enjoying the Hamburg Symphonies. I am impressed by his melodic writing, e.g. the melodies are sometimes jagged and unpredictable, but also very memorable.

Also enjoyed the keyboard music, in the very capable hands of Pieter-Jan Belder, as well as the Magnificat, which is an excellent choral work, not too dissimilar from the Magnificat of JS.

I look forward to hearing more from this composer.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

A timely, thread, Ken

CPE Bach will be Composer of the Week on BBC Radio 3 from Monday 3rd March at 12 noon (repeated 6.30pm) and available to listen online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3

I recently heard excepts from his Magnificat and other sacred cantatas and immediately thought about clearing half a metre of space on the shelves to accomodate suc treasures


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Mozart said he is the father of us all. Haydn said it was invaluable to closely study his music. Beethoven hounded publishers to give him CPE's scores, which he claimed were rotting on their shelves, asserting that everyone should have and know them. For most of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, when people said the name Bach without qualification, they meant CPE.

Yes Clavichorder! Those six symphonies are a great achievement. His six Prussian Sonatas for keyboard, from the early 1740s, are among the most daring and influential works of their era. He was the unrivaled master of the early-classical concerto. His importance cannot be overestimated.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Can anyone come up with some examples which show how he influenced Haydn? 

One recent discovery I made is of Leonhardt's recordings of the solo keyboard music. I thought they were wonderful. 

The music that has so far interested me the most are the Kenner and Liebhaber sonatas. I'm very keen on how Jocelyne Cuillier plays them. I've only started to explore Belder's recordings, and so far my response has been pretty mixed. I haven't enjoyed Spanyi much, or Pletnev. But there is a wonderful CPEB Fantasie played by Alexei Lubimov on a CD called Der Bote. 

People in the UK may have noticed that in May Pierre Hantai and Aapo Hakknen will play a CPEB concerto, part of a London baroque festival. (And, a propos, Lubimov is playing in London in April - not CPEB though.)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Mandryka said:


> Can anyone come up with some examples which show how he influenced Haydn? I


I _think_ I have seem specific references by Haydn - but that's a big maybe. In any case, since he did, how can you tell? Don't you need the (non-existent) examples of non-influence?


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Weston said:


> His music is still very contrapuntal, not so much as that of his father but in a Vivaldi way to my ears, and so I still categorize it as baroque even though I know it's from a later period. I used to enjoy his music a lot more when I had baroque fever. Now it sounds a little harsh or almost explosive to me. I find W. F. Bach far stranger and more interesting these days. Johann Christian is out of the question for me, all vesitges of baroque long fled.


Recommend me some WFB music recordings. I only know the wonderful one by Robert Hill on Naxos and I'm keen to hear more.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ukko said:


> I _think_ I have seem specific references by Haydn - but that's a big maybe. In any case, since he did, how can you tell? Don't you need the (non-existent) examples of non-influence?


There's a paper which touches on the issue here.

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/cpebach.pdf


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

This is an awesome collection performed by the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. 
http://www.amazon.com/C-P-E-Bach-Sy...393000323&sr=1-2&keywords=CPE+Bach+Symphonies


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

Mandryka said:


> Can anyone come up with some examples which show how he influenced Haydn?


The Hamburg symphonies of CPEB remind me a little of the early Haydn symphonies. For example, Wq.183/1 (Symphony in D Major) begins with a very jaunty melody which seems to contain some of that Haydn unpredictability and humour. I think the instrumentation is also quite similar, e.g. contrast between frantic string passages and quieter woodwind sections.


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## Winterreisender (Jul 13, 2013)

By the way, my favourite CPEB composition (at the moment) is this keyboard concerto






Normally I find classical style minuets a bit boring, but the one here (starts at 5:25) is just so darn catchy!! Great balance between solo and tutti sections, as well.


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## Llyranor (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm really fond of his Wq22 flute concerto, particular the final mvt


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Winterreisender said:


> By the way, my favourite CPEB composition (at the moment) is this keyboard concerto
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is just the sort of CPEB which I really can't enjoy much. And there's a lot of it. It makes me think that really all I like from him is the sensitive style music -- but as far as I know he only wrote solo keyboard music in that style. Is that right?

here's one I like a lot


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Something unusual from CPE: A vocal arrangement of the final (unfinished) contrapunctus of his papa's Art of Fugue. Harry van der Kamp leading the Gesualdo Consort Amsterdam.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

C. P. E. was one of the most influential composer of the second half of the eighteenth century.


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## KetchupOnIce (Nov 18, 2014)

The B minor sonata Wq. 62/22 and the Rondo in E major Wq. 57/1 are some of my favorites.


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