# Dvorák: symphony 6



## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

I am a big fan of Dvorák's symphonies 7, 8 and 9 but I was wondering; is his number 6 as good as the other three?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes. Try Kubelik.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

I think so. Perhaps it's a bit more overtly influenced by Brahms than the 7th, 8th, or 9th. (But is that such a bad thing? )

My favorite recording of Dvorák's 6th is by Ancerl with the Czech PO.


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

^^^^

bang on recommendation! (well,in my opinion anyway)

on reflection-you may be very pleasantly surprised by 3,4 and 5-seem to have been neglected over the years as a result of criticism-immature, influenced too obviously by this composer or that-try the second movement of the 3rd,its a blast!


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I really enjoy this symphony. This is a CD I purchased within the last year. A somewhat new recording (2009). But the Janacek was recorded in 2011. 
View attachment 46897


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

Don't listen to them, Mackerras/Czech Phil all the way . Amazing symphony, absolutely deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as 7-9.


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

nightscape said:


> .. absolutely deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as 7-9.


Most certainly. For some reason it was neglected for decades even though it is a great work. It gets recorded more often now. Conductors used to only do 7-9. Like Szell. I really love his Dvorak 7-9. Wish he had done 6. Recently it has been getting played by some major orchestras like Boston SO. Nezet-Seguin conducted it in his first BSO performance back in 2009. One of my favorite concerts of all time. The recordings I know and like are Kertész and Jarvi.


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## nightscape (Jun 22, 2013)

Radames said:


> Nezet-Seguin conducted it in his first BSO performance back in 2009.


He also brought it to Philly. When I saw it on the subscription series last year I almost didn't believe my eyes. He did a post-concert interview and he mentioned his concert in Boston, and that it was coincidentally one of the concerts that the Philadelphia Orchestra delegation attended when they were scouting for a music director (and they apparently weren't too subtle about it!).

It was an incredible performance.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

You know, of the mature symphonies, 5 through 9, I have not given 6 much due. I don't have a recording. I need to listen to it.

But I love 5, a really nice and melodic symphony.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> You know, of the mature symphonies, 5 through 9, I have not given 6 much due. I don't have a recording. I need to listen to it.


A very fine symphony. Trust me!


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## Alypius (Jan 23, 2013)

DrMuller said:


> I am a big fan of Dvorák's symphonies 7, 8 and 9 but I was wondering; is his number 6 as good as the other three?


It's excellent, but I still prefer 7 and 9. Just re-issued: the much acclaimed cycle by Istvan Kertesz and the London Symphony Orchestra. Kertesz makes the Sixth's waltz-like dance melodies swirl and soar:


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I'm not meaning to poo poo on this thread or anything, but in my humble opinion if you want to know whether or not you like a particular piece of music then actually listening to it would be a much more affective solution than making a thread asking if other people like it.  :tiphat:


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

6 is a fine symphony (especially the scherzo) yet nos 1-4 are not too shabby either. The coda of the 3rd's 1st mov sounds like a 1950s movie ending.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, you can wait forever and poll friends and acquaintances about whether or not a dish you have not yet tasted by a chef whose food you otherwise have so far loved is any good, or you could just eat it. 

Then, you can decide on your own


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Well, you can wait forever and poll friends and acquaintances about whether or not a dish you have not yet tasted by a chef whose food you otherwise have so far loved is any good, or you could just eat it.
> 
> Then, you can decide on your own


But sir - if the chef screws it up (maybe had heartburn that day), you still don't know. That's why the serious investigator _must_ find the set by Kubelik on DG. Otherwise there is the possibility of labeling Dvorak a Melody Pedlar.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Alypius said:


> It's excellent, but I still prefer 7 and 9. Just re-issued: the much acclaimed cycle by Istvan Kertesz and the London Symphony Orchestra. Kertesz makes the Sixth's waltz-like dance melodies swirl and soar.


People's tastes will vary, of course, but in this case I totally agree on the Kertesz set and prefer it to that other K-guy, whose own set isn't totally shabby either.


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## Aecio (Jul 27, 2012)

My favorite Dvorak symphony, if you like Brahms 2nd you will like the 6th, it's quite similar. There is a nice version of it by Dohnanyi, in Decca


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

KenOC said:


> People's tastes will vary, of course, but in this case I totally agree on the Kertesz set and prefer it to that other K-guy, whose own set isn't totally shabby either.


Kertesz had a tendency toward overt enthusiasm, or maybe it could be called heightened expressiveness. Sort of like Lenny, but with more self control. It works in a lot of music, not so much in Dvorak's. Probably great for the whippersnappers though, and other rough characters.

...


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> I'm not meaning to poo poo on this thread or anything, but in my humble opinion if you want to know whether or not you like a particular piece of music then actually listening to it would be a much more affective solution than making a thread asking if other people like it.  :tiphat:


effective.......................


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## mtmailey (Oct 21, 2011)

YES it is just good as the other ones namely 1-5 symphony 6 i like the 3rd movement the most.This is another nice & long work.


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## JACE (Jul 18, 2014)

KenOC said:


> People's tastes will vary, of course, but in this case I totally agree on the Kertesz set and prefer it to *that other K-guy*, whose own set isn't totally shabby either.


The other K-guy? Would that be Rafael *K*ubelik? Or *K*arel Ančerl?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

JACE said:


> The other K-guy? Would that be Rafael *K*ubelik? Or *K*arel Ančerl?


Kubelik. Haven't heard the Ancerl!


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## Radames (Feb 27, 2013)

nightscape said:


> He also brought it to Philly. When I saw it on the subscription series last year I almost didn't believe my eyes. He did a post-concert interview and he mentioned his concert in Boston, and that it was coincidentally one of the concerts that the Philadelphia Orchestra delegation attended when they were scouting for a music director (and they apparently weren't too subtle about it!).
> 
> It was an incredible performance.


I have not heard it done badly. I think it's one of those pieces that's hard to mess up. The least good performance I heard was the New Hampshire Philharmonic's back in 2008. And it was still great! I heard the Ottawa NAC orchestra do it in 2012 under Hrusa. VT Symphony did it last season also. Audiences really love it. Now hopefully we can get more orchestras to do the 5th. Montreal Symphony did it a few years back in one of their morning concerts. I took the day off work and went. Last season the community orchestra Pioneer Valley Symphony did it.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ukko said:


> But sir - if the chef screws it up (maybe had heartburn that day), you still don't know. That's why the serious investigator _must_ find the set by Kubelik on DG. Otherwise there is the possibility of labeling Dvorak a Melody Pedlar.


Dvorak _was_ a Melody Peddler 

But yeah, if you taste a specific dish but once, in one place, the one time only -- and don't try it another time, or in another place -- well, that really goes without saying, and saying it to the soul who is asking everyone else about that dish rather than trying it, who is not comparing the dish in different places and prepared by different chefs -- just may be lost on them...or not.


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

violadude said:


> I'm not meaning to poo poo on this thread or anything, but in my humble opinion if you want to know whether or not you like a particular piece of music then actually listening to it would be a much more affective solution than making a thread asking if other people like it.  :tiphat:


I am terribly sorry. You are right. Why bother with conversation when I can just use my ears.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Final Arbiter Is the Ear.*



DrMuller said:


> I am terribly sorry. You are right. Why bother with conversation when I can just use my ears.


All sarcasm aside the final arbiter is our ears.

I attended a discussion with the composer Steven Stucky. He mentioned something I learned only a few years ago. All of us will react to a piece of music differently. I have performed Beethoven's _Fifth Symphony_ several times in my life. If I am attending a concert of the _Fifth_ I will react to it differently than a person who has never performed it. By the same token, if I am sitting next to a retired symphony musician who has performed it dozens of times in his career he will have a different reaction than I would. We each bring our own unique listening and performance experiences to bear when we listen to a performance.

If a person dislikes Dvorák's _Sixth Symphony_ I seriously doubt that I can state anything to change his mind (Note: There are many who consider his earlier Symphonies to be inferior to the final three.)

In another thread I made some observations concerning Schubert's _Unfinished Symphony_ that got me into trouble with some of the members. (Note: They were positive remarks.)

If a person is predisposed to like Dvorák's _Sixth Symphony_, then it is possible for me to say something that might enhance his understanding of the work. As a result of my listening and performance experiences, I think his earlier symphonies are outstanding.

Since I am a weak writer, I frequently do a poor job of expressing myself. Any remarks I could make would be very subjective and those of an amateur bassoonist. I have frequently made statements that have offended non-musicians. I remember the heat I took over my comments concerning Schubert. As a result I tend to avoid making contributions to discussions like this.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

DrMuller said:


> I am terribly sorry. You are right. Why bother with conversation when I can just use my ears.


Did I say conversation about classical music was useless? No, I didn't, not even close.

I merely found it odd that you felt the need to ask others if a piece is good before you listen to it. If you are interested or curious, why not just listen AND THEN converse about it?


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

violadude said:


> Did I say conversation about classical music was useless? No, I didn't, not even close.
> 
> I merely found it odd that you felt the need to ask others if a piece is good before you listen to it. If you are interested or curious, why not just listen AND THEN converse about it?


I'm going to pretend that you were talking to me - because I have no idea of _DrMuller_'s idiosyncrasies. The 'why not just listen' proposal assumes an available recording. If that 'availability' is YouTube, I am not apt to listen. I consider YouTube highly inconvenient for music lasting more than 5 minutes or so; no kick back environment available. That inconvenience tends to color the music with Grumpy Geezerness - and that not only ain't fair to the music, it probably means I'll _never_ listen to it again. Damn it, that's a tragedy. YouTube causes tragedies!

:scold:


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## DrMuller (May 26, 2014)

violadude said:


> Did I say conversation about classical music was useless? No, I didn't, not even close.
> 
> I merely found it odd that you felt the need to ask others if a piece is good before you listen to it. If you are interested or curious, why not just listen AND THEN converse about it?


I was just making a little joke.  Actually I have been listeing to it on youtube but I find the discussion really helpful. I really enjoy other people's input, it does make a difference for me. Most people here know more about classical music than I do. That being said I am really falling for his 6th symphony.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Humor*

I have had to reign in my sense of humor. In another forum it got me into all sorts of trouble. That is why when I try to make a joke I use a smilie.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

My favourite Dvorak Symphony and my preference recordings

My 1st Choice:









2nd Choice


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

No. 6 is a happy symphony like No. 8. Other great Czech composer that mastered it are Istvan Kertesz and Vaclav Neumann.


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## Joachim Raff (Jan 31, 2020)

larold said:


> No. 6 is a happy symphony like No. 8. Other great Czech composer that mastered it are Istvan Kertesz and Vaclav Neumann.


My favourite Czech composer is Karel Šejna. His 6th is very special, if you would like a historical recording


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

#6 is my favorite Dvorak Symphony...wonderful, bright, joyful work...it has been compared, with some justification to Brahms #2...same key, rousing finale, etc...I love the mvt III "Furiant", a characteristic folk dance with its special 3/2-3/4 rhythm pattern (same as Slavonic Dance #8)..my favorite recording is Kertesz/LSO, perhaps the crown jewel of that superb collection... Kertesz leads an inspired, dramatic reading, superbly played by the great LSO....excellent recorded sound by Decca (K. Wilkinson??)...special kudos to the fine low brass section (Wick, Matheson, Fletcher et al) who are fully on top of their prominent passages...


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Joachim Raff said:


> My favourite Czech composer is Karel Šejna. His 6th is very special, if you would like a historical recording


Karl Sejna was a bass player in the CzechPO...who also conducted...he conducted the CzPO in an excellent complete set of Slavonic Dances.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I prefer 3,5,7, 8 and 9 but 6 is still a very good symphony. Dohnanyi's is a cracker but I also love Anguelov, Rowicki, Neumann (both) and a few others in this symphony.


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## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

First, I love No. 6 - it deserves to be up there with 7, 8 & 9. 

Second, I see no problem asking about a piece before listening, especially if listening is going to involve trouble and/or expense. This is a forum where people seldom answer just "yes" or "no". People are more than happy to share information and opinions. It's a bit like reading a program note before a concert begins: you get some context and learn what to listen for. It could whet your appetite. Or you could decide not to bother. Where your ears come in is the opinion you form while you listen to it.

My own recommendations? (If they matter) Ancerl for sure, but James Gaffigan made a lovely recording with the Lucerne Symphony. It comes with a wonderful coupling of the American Suite.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Of 5 through 9, 6 is my least favorite. I find 5 more inspired somehow, but I do enjoy 6. Neither 6 nor 5 are on the level of 7 and 8. 9 is it's own thing, the most famous, but in many ways I think 7 and 8 are better.


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## Hermastersvoice (Oct 15, 2018)

To my ear Dvořák 6-9 are his undeniable masterpieces in the symphonic repertoire. Ancerl, Sejna, Chalabala opened my ears to this music. Before them, I put Dvořák in the category of Tchaikovsky; nice, tuneful but nothing too profound to be excited about. The Czech Philharmonic with its chuckling woodwind and individual string sound under these masters, always displaying unfailing rhythm, and may I add, in the acoustics of their home, is the ultimate yardstick for how this music should go. If unknown to you, go have a listen. This must be what Dvořák (Smetana, Janacek, Martinu) had in mind. You can add Smetacek, Krumbholc to the list.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I got to know and love the Dvorak 6th ages ago on LP during the stone age when I took out the classic Kertesz/LSO recordings out of my local library on Long Island as a teenager . 
The New York Philharmonic did it just several moths ago with I believe Jakub Hrusa , who is rapidly becoming a big name . The NY Times critic pointed out how delighted the audience was with the 3rd movement scherzo/furiant . Of course ! It's totally infectious .


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