# Question on Amadeus and Queen of the Night Aria



## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

Hey all. First a brief warning- I'm pretty much a neophyte when it comes to opera, and probably have an iota of knowledge compared to most of you, so apologies if this may sound a bit amateurish 

I really love the famous Queen of the Night Aria from the Magic Flute, and have been listening to different recordings as of late.

I noticed that June Anderson is credited with the version played during the scene in Amadeus (I believe she sang it in English). However, the movie soundtrack has Louisa Kennedy singing it. For reference:






I found a version of June Anderson singing it, but it doesn't really match the tempo of the version in the film.

I've also found what I think is a pretty classic version by Lucia Popp, which is nice, but I'd really like to find the original from the movie.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

What I know is that an actress played the scene but the voice was that of a singer, thus the difference in movie credits and sound track credits.


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes. Should have specified- June Anderson was the actual singer for the onscreen version.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

IMDb lists Milada Cechalova as the actress who played Queen of the Night in Amadeus. June Anderson is listed as the singer of the aria. There is no mention of a Louisa Kennedy. So do you mean that on the sound track released commercialy on CD, there was a different singer?

But why would you want June Anderson's version? It's not that good. Compare with this:






Or with this:


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

BigBrother said:


> I've also found what I think is a pretty classic version by Lucia Popp, which is nice ...


Many people regard Lucia Popp's as setting the standard by which others are judged.

But also check out Patricia Petibon's version.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Many people regard Lucia Popp's as setting the standard by which others are judged.
> 
> But also check out Patricia Petibon's version.


Sure, but the original poster should, in all fairness, be told that there is a significant clique here of Mme. PP's fans (me included) so we may be slightly biased.:lol:


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Sure, but the original poster should, in all fairness, be told that there is a significant clique here of Mme. PP's fans (me included) so we may be slightly biased.:lol:


Yes. He should also be warned that I will use _any_ excuse, no matter how flimsy, to post youtubes of Mme Petibon.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Yes. He should also be warned that I will use _any_ excuse, no matter how flimsy, to post youtubes of Mme Petibon.


Have you seen my hot pictures of her and her hot Olympia in the Lovely Sopranos thread?
That Olympia was too racy for YouTube so I had to pull it from another site.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Have you seen my hot pictures of her and her hot Olympia in the Lovely Sopranos thread?
> That Olympia was too racy for YouTube so I had to pull it from another site.


Yes, although (seriously) it's not that aspect of her that I find so compelling. It's something about the intensity and uniqueness of her character - or at least, the way she presents it. No one else could portray Zima (_Les Indes Galantes_) the way she does. She's made the character entirely hers.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Yes, although (seriously) it's not that aspect of her that I find so compelling. It's something about the intensity and uniqueness of her character - or at least, the way she presents it. No one else could portray Zima (_Les Indes Galantes_) the way she does. She's made the character entirely hers.


Well, I like that too, but still appreciate the other "assets."
So, Patricia is the whole package.
Intense, committed, courageous, original, *and* cute and sexy.
What's not to like?
Well, if only she could sing... :lol:
Kidding. I don't think she's that bad with her singing, just, not exactly top notch. But good enough, and given the other qualities, she is a very enjoyable performer.
While I'm a little traditionalist in terms of respecting an opera's composer and librettist (thus disliking productions that push the envelope a little too far), I'm not harsh on contemporary singers who aren't as technically accomplished as some of the oldies. While current singers as a whole sing less well than the great singers of the past (with exceptions, but rather rare exceptions), they very often can act better and look better. All things considered, and given the outstanding talent of some stage directors (such as Robert Lepage) and the incredible resources of some opera companies (like Glyndebourne and Chatêlet) we should actually count our blessings: we live in an era in which it is good to be an opera fan. Not to forget that nowadays we can watch these performances from the comfort of our home in 1080p HD and DTS surround sound. So, I'm not nostalgic for the past, I think we've been doing pretty well and can probably enjoy better opera than most people 60-80-100 years ago.

My point is, I'd rather see Patricia singing reasonably *and* being cute, looking the part, acting convincingly, and delivering an overall charming performance, than a 300-pound "stand and deliver" soprano with a better voice.

I saw that Indes Galantes, and she was absolutely yummy.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> My point is, I'd rather see Patricia singing reasonably *and* being cute, looking the part, acting convincingly, and delivering an overall charming performance, than a 300-pound "stand and deliver" soprano with a better voice.


I entirely agree with that.


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Many people regard Lucia Popp's as setting the standard by which others are judged.


Thanks, I kinda thought so.

But nothing on June Anderson, eh?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> I'm not harsh on contemporary singers who aren't as technically accomplished as some of the oldies. While current singers as a whole sing less well than the great singers of the past (with exceptions, but rather rare exceptions), they very often can act better and look better.


Must be careful here, as we're distracting attention from the original topic - but there are some interesting things to comment on here. The 'technical perfection' side of singing has never much interested me for its own sake - mainly, I expect, because I don't understand it, but also because the expressive power is what really matters to me. Even though I do myself think that Lucia Popp's Queen of Night is The One (insofar as One exists), Petibon's is up there with her for very different reasons - reasons to do with drama and character, and intuitive response, rather than technical proficiency. Though of course I appreciate that the thing can't be done at all without a certain (extraordinarily high) minimum of technical skill. In that respect, I wonder if today's singers really do sing less well than the singers of the past. In a technical sense, perhaps (I wouldn't know). But not perhaps in this other (to my mind more vital) sense.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> While I'm a little traditionalist in terms of respecting an opera's composer and librettist (thus disliking productions that push the envelope a little too far), I'm not harsh on contemporary singers who aren't as technically accomplished as some of the oldies. While current singers as a whole sing less well than the great singers of the past (with exceptions, but rather rare exceptions), they very often can act better and look better.


I think we're sometimes a bit too hard on the current singers. Today singers have to do battle with bigger (and louder) orchestras in bigger opera houses than was the case in the past. Schwarzkopf (for example) is - no doubt about it - an all time great, but would her Marschallin even be heard in the backrows of giant houses of today? Just being heard is a primary concern of today's singers it seems to me. Maybe sacrificing some subtlety for volume and a full bodied sound is the only option they have......Just a thought, I'm not a specialist.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> I entirely agree with that.


I'm always in awe of your Message Board skills... how do you manage to enter these smilies that are not available? I think the selection we are given on the right side of the typing field is too short. I love the applauding little guy, this positive one of yours is cute, and so forth. There is no profusely crying guy who is useful too... how do we enter these apparently unavailable ones?


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Must be careful here, as we're distracting attention from the original topic - but there are some interesting things to comment on here. The 'technical perfection' side of singing has never much interested me for its own sake - mainly, I expect, because I don't understand it, but also because the expressive power is what really matters to me. Even though I do myself think that Lucia Popp's Queen of Night is The One (insofar as One exists), Petibon's is up there with her for very different reasons - reasons to do with drama and character, and intuitive response, rather than technical proficiency. Though of course I appreciate that the thing can't be done at all without a certain (extraordinarily high) minimum of technical skill. In that respect, I wonder if today's singers really do sing less well than the singers of the past. In a technical sense, perhaps (I wouldn't know). But not perhaps in this other (to my mind more vital) sense.


We're not really distracting from the original topic because the OP is interested in getting access to spectacular performances of the aria, and we're talking about what makes the current singers who try their hand (actually their throat) at singing it better or worse than other landmark performances.

Otherwise I think we actually agree. You're saying what I'm saying, in other words. This other vital sense you're talking about versus the technical aspects of the singing match what I'm saying about current singers being more of a whole package and overall not any worse than past singers, because of their superior delivery of drama and character. Of course, in the past we've had people who had just as good or better delivery of drama and character, like Callas. But talking about averages, I think we're as well served today as opera audiences were in the past.

So, to tie this back into the OP's question, we can uphold Patricia's Queen of the Night as highly as Popp's.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> I think we're sometimes a bit too hard on the current singers. Today singers have to do battle with bigger (and louder) orchestras in bigger opera houses than was the case in the past. Schwarzkopf (for example) is - no doubt about it - an all time great, but would her Marschallin even be heard in the backrows of giant houses of today? Just being heard is a primary concern of today's singers it seems to me. Maybe sacrificing some subtlety for volume and a full bodied sound is the only option they have......Just a thought, I'm not a specialist.


Well, nowadays there is amplification... a controversial hot potato, but singers today can get some extra help.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Almaviva said:


> I'm always in awe of your Message Board skills... how do you manage to enter these smilies that are not available?


Google the smiley you want - for example there is a good selection on this site, and then enter it as a normal image, by right-clicking it, selecting properties, copying the image location and entering using the image icon.

For this one







I just googled thumbs up smiley.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

mamascarlatti said:


> Google the smiley you want - for example there is a good selection on this site, and then enter it as a normal image, by right-clicking it, selecting properties, copying the image location and entering using the image icon.
> 
> For this one
> 
> ...


Cool!


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Otherwise I think we actually agree.


Oh yes. It wasn't really a case of agreeing or disagreeing. Just chatting, really.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Oh yes. It wasn't really a case of agreeing or disagreeing. Just chatting, really.


Sure, and I love chatting with you.:tiphat:


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

No, it pretty much is completely derailed at this point.

This is like someone hopping onto a Ford forum asking if someone knows where to locate a '67 Mustang in their area, and the thread becoming a debate on 6 vs. 8 cylinder engines 

I pretty much got that the L. Popp version is the standard, which was good to hear, but still nothing on the June Anderson versions.

Can we *maybe* address that instead of smiley design and larynx power? 

Thanks all!


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

BigBrother said:


> No, it pretty much is completely derailed at this point.
> 
> This is like someone hopping onto a Ford forum asking if someone knows where to locate a '67 Mustang in their area, and the thread becoming a debate on 6 vs. 8 cylinder engines
> 
> ...


Sorry...
But I did address June Anderson's singing of the aria, by saying that I don't like it very much.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

BigBrother said:


> No, it pretty much is completely derailed at this point.


Oh surely not. Just a few byways being explored.

The only available June Anderson recording I can find is the one with Mackerras. There's a youtube of it here.

A highlights CD of the Mackerras recording is available here.










The whole opera is available here.










This is not, as you say, the same as the version in the movie which (I presume?) was recording specially for the movie? So I suppose what you want is the version on the soundtrack of the movie:










Personally, I'd go for Popp or Petibon any day, but I can understand that if you've made a particular connection with the movie, then that's the version you'd want.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

You nailed it, Elgarian!


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks a lot all!


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

What's with all the Popp and Petibon love when clearly Diana Damrau's Covent Garden performance is unquestionably the best?

e: And yeah, June Anderson does nothing for me in this role. Wrong fach (she is, I believe, a lyric coloratura and the aria sounds so much better when sung by a dramatic coloratura), wrong take, just lack of the emotion that the lyrical content necessitates.


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## Keikobad (Jul 9, 2010)

Chacun à son goût, of course. Each of us may find ourselves with one (or more than one) QOTN interpreter who grabs us by the short hairs and won't let go. For me, it's Damrau (see the 2003 ROH/McVicar/Davis DVD), whose rapid-fire staccato, spot-on pitch and positively menacing behavior make her my current choice.

But.....and this is a big one.........this unhealthy obsession with making and prioritizing lists, who's the best, the worst, etc. serves no purpose because each of us will hear things differently and develop quite different expectations.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Keikobad said:


> But.....and this is a big one.........this unhealthy obsession with making and prioritizing lists, who's the best, the worst, etc. serves no purpose because each of us will hear things differently and develop quite different expectations.


Yes, though the temptation seems irresistible, since you yourself want to tell us (and indeed, we want to hear you) that Diana Damrau is currently top of your particular list....

Looking back at the comments in this thread I see nothing unhealthy. I see good-natured banter about the contributors' favourite performers of one of the greatest arias in opera. And it does serve a purpose, insofar as we're able to share these opinions and descriptions in a friendly manner, and in doing so celebrate the great range of brilliant singing available to us. What emerges is that we all have much to be thankful for to Popp, Petibon and Damrau, and clearly (for at least one contributor) June Anderson too. _Vive la différence._


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

What sucks is, in looking, it appears there is no way to get that particular version from the film (where, again, you'll notice she's actually singing in English). All the other June Anderson recordings are sort of... meh.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

BigBrother said:


> What sucks is, in looking, it appears there is no way to get that particular version from the film.


Yes there is. The soundtrack CD is still available (see the link I gave in my post).


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## Dulcamara (Sep 22, 2010)

There are many excellent renditions of the piece that have been mentioned so far. My favorite has to be Diana Damrau's version, which ended up being my introduction to the Queen o' the Night. The combination of amazing singing and music was astonishing. Although I've heard plenty of grand versions since then, Diana Damrau's feels like the "original" standard to me. Of course, I know this just goes to show how recently I've turned to opera, but nevertheless.


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## BigBrother (Sep 24, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Yes there is. The soundtrack CD is still available (see the link I gave in my post).


The soundtrack features an entirely different recording:

http://www.amazon.com/Amadeus-Soundtrack-Gold-Wolfgang-Mozart/dp/B00005Y1SV/ref=pd_sim_m_48

If you'll scroll down, you'll see:

Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute), opera, K. 620 Der Hölle Rache Kocht
Composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Performed by Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields
with Louisa Kennedy
Conducted by Neville Marriner


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

BigBrother said:


> The soundtrack features an entirely different recording:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Amadeus-Soundtrack-Gold-Wolfgang-Mozart/dp/B00005Y1SV/ref=pd_sim_m_48
> 
> ...


Well, that beats me! When is a soundtrack not a soundtrack? When it's an Amadeus soundtrack, it seems. Why would the soundtrack CD have a different Q of N version to the movie? Surely someone out there can shed some light on this?


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Must admit I only got this version because I'm in love with Simon Keenlyside but Damrau's Queen of the Night was the most spectacular & menacing portrayal I have ever seen.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> Well, that beats me! When is a soundtrack not a soundtrack? When it's an Amadeus soundtrack, it seems. Why would the soundtrack CD have a different Q of N version to the movie? Surely someone out there can shed some light on this?


I think it is different because the Anderson version truly sucks!

This is such a memorable aria, and this movie did expose the masses to this beautiful artform, and they had to pick a soprano who did such a terrible job? I haven't heard this Kennedy version, but I'd say that it must be an improvement over that terrible performance, because it is hard to do any worse.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Here's a clue. Take a look at the Wikipedia entry here, and scroll down to the section on the soundtrack album, where it says:



> Music featured in the film but not included on the soundtrack album (but included in a later extended version):
> 
> * The Magic Flute, Queen of the Night aria Der Hölle Rache performed by June Anderson


Now the question is - is this right? The 'extended version' is presumably the Director's Cut - but if so, then as BigBrother points out, it isn't actually June Anderson, but Louisa Kennedy. Good grief, there's enough here to keep a Conspiracy Obsessive occupied for weeks ....


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## BevoLonghorn (Mar 29, 2015)

I am late to this party...but come on, June Anderson sings it with dramatic flare!






Full rich sound...I don't hear any shrillness or straining in the upper range at all. I do know from a friend, who was at the recording of the Amadeus movie soundtrack that she didn't like any of the takes. Perhaps because it was in English. It's probably why there is another singer on the soundtrack album.


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## BevoLonghorn (Mar 29, 2015)

But why would you want June Anderson's version? It's not that good. Compare with this:






Or with this:





[/QUOTE]

I am late to this party...but come on, June Anderson sings it with dramatic flare!






Full rich sound...I don't hear any shrillness or straining in the upper range at all. I do know from a friend, who was at the recording of the Amadeus movie soundtrack that she didn't like any of the takes. Perhaps because it was in English. It's probably why there is another singer on the soundtrack album.


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## BevoLonghorn (Mar 29, 2015)

Almaviva said:


> IMDb lists Milada Cechalova as the actress who played Queen of the Night in Amadeus. June Anderson is listed as the singer of the aria. There is no mention of a Louisa Kennedy. So do you mean that on the sound track released commercialy on CD, there was a different singer?
> 
> But why would you want June Anderson's version? It's not that good. Compare with this:
> 
> ...


I am late to this party...but come on, June Anderson sings it with dramatic flare!






Full rich sound...I don't hear any shrillness or straining in the upper range at all. I do know from a friend, who was at the recording of the Amadeus movie soundtrack that she didn't like any of the takes. Perhaps because it was in English. It's probably why there is another singer on the soundtrack album.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

One of the very best ever :


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Elgarian said:


> Many people regard Lucia Popp's as setting the standard by which others are judged.


not necessarily directed at you, but LOL. the Queen of the Night is a DRAMATIC coloratura role. she is supposed to sound scary, nasty and vengeful, not bright, sympathetic and youthful. I don't take issue with lighter sopranos singing it as a concert piece, but, if a lyric coloratura is to be held as the standard for this aria, it should at least be a singer like, say, Diana Damrau with an icier, more declamatory delivery.



> But also check out Patricia Petibon's version.


a respectable performance. the voice itself was a little light for my tastes, but she mostly made up for it with expressiveness and force.

anyway, the REAL standard for the Queen of the Night is Edda Moser


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

I really like Diana's Queen of the night and the whole production (because of Papageno-Simon Keenlyside). But I think Edda Moser is even better. Amazing!






Unfortunately, I didn't like June Anderson in this role.


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