# Questions about orchestral score



## paulc

I'm currently studying the score of Wagner, Tristan & Isolde Prelude. There are quite a few things I've had to look up, not helped by the crappy quality of the printing!

*Which instrument is 'Bel.' ?* Appearing above the Double Bass yet below the other strings on one page, above all the strings on another (?).

I assume Hr. (in F) is an abbreviation for Horner. On one page the 'Horner' (in F & E) appear above all of the strings, on the next page they are between the Cello and Double Bass. *Why?*

*Another part says '3 F'.... is that Fagott?* Bassoon? If so, why is its position (between the Cello and Double Bass) so unexpected in the score?

I don't understand why the order is so inconsistent. The instruments have a specific place in the score, regardless of range and section don't they?


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## paulc

'Bel.' might actually be a misreading. The print is terrible. It could be 'Bcl.', so Bass Clarinet (?) which would explain something.

The other issues remain.


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## EdwardBast

In all the other cases you've cited you have to be misreading the score. No reputable edition would ever order the instruments as you've described. I'd advise getting a legible edition.


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## paulc

You can have a look at it here (I should have posted this earlier!):

http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/7/77/IMSLP66167-PMLP03546-Wagner-WWV090.pdf

Oddly, there's another edition on IMSLP which uses the same order. See on the 2nd page?


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## EdwardBast

paulc said:


> You can have a look at it here (I should have posted this earlier!):
> 
> http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/7/77/IMSLP66167-PMLP03546-Wagner-WWV090.pdf
> 
> Oddly, there's another edition on IMSLP which uses the same order. See on the 2nd page?


Yes, there are editions that mess up the order. The one you've posted makes that strange flipping of wind and strings on the second page. The Peters 1911 edition does that too. Also, placing the voices between the lower and upper strings is atypical. If it bothers you, surely you can find an edition that uses normal score order throughout?

Hey paulc, what's with the belligerent text in your signature?


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## paulc

EdwardBast said:


> "Also, placing the voices between the lower and upper strings is atypical. If it bothers you, surely you can find an edition that uses normal score order throughout?"


Thanks for confirming that the 2nd page is wonky. I thought the placement of the voices was also odd! The order doesn't worry me now that I know which instruments are which and how they transpose (if so). Everything is matching the piano reduction I have.


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## SONNET CLV

I enjoyed looking at that _Tristan_ score. They do say that with this music Wagner opened up new and unexpected areas of tonality which caused quite the confusion it its day. Perhaps the score editor was attempting to graphically display that same "aura" of new and unexpected.


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