# English Musical Renaissance & the Empire



## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

I've been skimming discussions here for quite a while and left a couple of short notes some time ago, but never had anything really interesting to contribute I'm afraid to the great discussions here. Let me try again with a new topic. 

The western encounter with other cultures is a well researched and documented topic in many Italian and French music/opera's, but in English music not so much it seems. Which is odd considering the fact that Britain's empire covered a quarter of the globe around the fin-de-sciecle. The topic of the English Musical Renaissance (from ca. 1840 onward) and especially the potential influence of the Empire on it's composers and it's development really interests me and also, if you like, exoticism/orientalism in English music in general in this period. 

Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance Marches (Land of Hope and Glory) is of course about as bluntly nationalistic as you can get, but also Indian influences on Holst's music (Savitri) can be seen as associated with an influence by the Empire. BUt I've been reading some essays on Granville Bantock and others, most associated with Elgar, that suggest the Empire had a much greater influence on British music than the general association of the Renaissance with (the 'pastoral' style of) Vaughan Williams after WWI suggests.

I find these topics of nationalism in British music and also external influences on European music culture in general extremely interesting. And I wondered if any of the members here have some thoughts about these topics? 

Full disclosure: I'm preparing a paper for my BA in History on this topic at the moment. this is in no way intended as a request to you, to do my homework for me, i can handle that, but I'm really interested in your perspectives on this topic.

Cheers,

Sander


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

You may have found your way to it already, but if not then run - don't walk - towards the nearest copy of Jeffrey Richards's book _Music and Imperialism_ (see here for example.) The chapter on 'Elgar's Empire' is particularly brilliant.


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## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks for the tip Elgarian, I had seen it before and I'm trying to get that right now via interlibrary lending so it might a week or so before I can read the essays. Elgar will feature prominently in my essay, because he was such a singular figure in the Renaissance (an outsider, yet extremely succesfull) and because he engaged with the Empire in many of his works, not just the patriotic marches. Gustav Holst and maybe Sullivan (Mikado) will get a spotlight as well, though they each used the Empire, and the people it encountered/conquered is such different ways. 

Though I'm reading a lot about him I must confess that until now I haven't listened to much Elgar yet. Just the P&C marches and the cello concerto really. Any tips on where to start?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

silmarillion said:


> Gustav Holst and maybe Sullivan (Mikado) will get a spotlight as well, though they each used the Empire, and the people it encountered/conquered is such different ways.


You'll find a chapter on 'Sullivan's Empire' as well as 'Elgar's Empire' in the book. I think the book will prove enormously helpful to you.



> Though I'm reading a lot about him I must confess that until now I haven't listened to much Elgar yet. Just the P&C marches and the cello concerto really. Any tips on where to start?


There's one key work, grossly neglected today, which also happens to be one of his very finest pieces of music. It's called _The Spirit of England_, and is based on three poems by Laurence Binyon:










This particular recording is absolutely superb - the finest of the three available - and you can buy it at a pitifully small price on Amazon here.

In the space of half an hour, this piece of music will tell you more about Elgar's attitude to his country, the Empire, the tragedy of the first world war, and his concept of the chivalric ideal, than any other single work, I'd say. And on this CD you also get the _Coronation Ode_, which includes the tune from _Pomp and Circumstance_ transformed into 'Land of Hope and Glory'. Not his greatest work by any means, but very apposite for you. ('Land of Hope and Glory' was written for the contralto Clara Butt - another key 'Empire' figure. You can hear her 1911 recording of the song here.)

For more about _The Spirit of England _see my post (#25) in this thread, here on the forum.

Another work you might like to consider (though it requires more investment of time and money), which has considerable bearing on his attitude to Empire, is his 'dramatic cantata' _Caractacus_, which is notorious for its finale - which many people find rather hard-to-take. (It's only hard to take if you don't understand Elgar's attitude to Empire, which is misunderstood by almost everyone, as you'll discover when you read the chapter in Richards' book.) If you're tempted, you can buy an excellent version in a 2CD set very cheaply here, and that will also give you the _Enigma Variations_ - itself one of Elgar's key orchestral works (not directly related to Empire, though the last variation is a musical description of Elgar himself, which is not exactly irrelevant).

Will that do to be going on with?


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## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks Elgarian, great suggestions, I hadn't come across _The Spirit of England_ yet. I'll certainly try to get a copy. I also read a short essay on _Caractacus_ in a volume of essay. If you're interested, it's: Martin Clayton and Bennett Zon ed., _Music and Orientalism in the British Empire, 1780s-1940s_. It has a couple of interesting essays on Elgar, among others. I think you can practically read the whole book via the books.google.com preview.

It think it's very interesting, and a little funny sometimes, how the youtube videos of the _Pomp anc Circumstance _ marches, esp. Land of Hope and Glory, are littered with extremely emotional 'discussion'. Really fascinating how such a simple yet effective piece of music can still make blood boil (or hearts warm) today.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

It is interesting to consider how much british music owes to EE but the SEMR really relies on the flook of having three great teachers around at the same time MacKenzie, Stanford, and Parry. Quite often EE is considered outside the SEMR because he was not part of the scholatic lineage unlike Frank Bridge and John Ireland who, although having written some fine music, did not contribute anything like as substantially as EE to the body of English music. It is also intersting to see historically where the SEMR allegedly ends. The theory is that post WWII is not considered part of the SEMR. Strange as it my seem that excludes a lot of works by Finzi and RVW and others but the idea is to see Benjamin Britten's voice as a new start with composers like Lennox Berkely, Michael Tippet and Keneth Leighton being part of a 'post war' movement.


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## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

You are right, it is interesting. The histories of the Musical Renaissance also differ wildly in their dating. Some use the ca. 1840-1940 paradigm you described, mostly seeing the Stanford/Parry lineage as the mainstream of the Renaissance. But others emphasize Elgar, because he was one of the first Englishman in a long time to really gain national _and_ international stature as composer. His breakthrough with _Dreams of Gerontius_ was in Germany, not England. These historians usually see the real renaissance as starting around the turn of the century and ending with Britten.

It's a matter of opinion really that can't really be resolved. But it seems logical to start the Renaissance with the academic revival of British music by Stanford and Parry, even if not all (Elgar/Bax) were part of their lineage. That doesn't preclude the latter from being part of the overall revival.

Much debate at the time revolved around what true 'Englishness' was in music. Vaughan Williams argued for the use of folkmusic because it was supposed to the best expression of Englishness, while the imperial splendor of Elgar might as well be considered typically English around the turn of the century. The debates are especially interesting because of the strong influence the continental traditions from Germany and France still had on the composers of the Renaissance. How can you define what makes a truly national music?


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

post-minimalist said:


> It is interesting to consider how much british music owes to EE but the SEMR really relies on the flook of having three great teachers around at the same time MacKenzie, Stanford, and Parry.


That's an important point. Listening to Parry's third ('English') symphony (which hardly anyone ever does) would be quite a revelation to anyone who might have been tempted to think Elgar's symphonies just appeared from nowhere.


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

silmarillion said:


> ... while the imperial splendor of Elgar might as well be considered typically English around the turn of the century.


One must of course be careful about this: 'imperial splendour' is a term that could only be used to characterise a very small proportion of Elgar's music, such as the _Coronation Ode_, _Pomp & Circumstance_, etc. But the great bulk of Elgar's music, while sometimes making an acknowledgement to 'imperial splendour', is very different: the three major chamber works, the two concertos, the music for strings, _Enigma_, _Gerontius_, _The Apostles_, _The Kingdom_, etc, etc.


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## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

EE's string music is so close t the spirit of the SEMR that it always puzzles me how stubborn some historians can be about his exclusion. I, for one, have done a lot of home work on this period and consider EEs contribution indispensable. 

Can I just say how refreshing it is to have such a polite discussion at last! Let's have more like this, ladies and gentlemen.
F


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

silmarillion said:


> It's a matter of opinion really that can't really be resolved. But it seems logical to start the Renaissance with the academic revival of British music by Stanford and Parry, even if not all (Elgar/Bax) were part of their lineage.


There's another dimension to this that I think very few people have considered. Parry was at Oxford at the time Ruskin became Professor of Art; I understand that he went to Ruskin's lectures and was very influenced by them. Now, this is interesting because Ruskin's great message concerned the moral aspect of art (the antithesis of 'art for art's sake'). So, you get this seed deposited in the young Parry of a potential moral purpose in music. There's a thread here that can be followed, perhaps, through to Elgar (whom we know was also deeply influenced by Ruskin - 'This is the best of me' etc). Elgar's view of Empire was chivalric and moral - it was about brotherhood and self-sacrifice. I think he sought to imbue his music with those qualities, as did Parry. I think what I'm suggesting is that John Ruskin may be lurking somewhere in the background of the English Musical Renaissance and its relation to Empire, but I don't think anyone's ever checked that out.


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## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

Elgarian said:


> One must of course be careful about this: 'imperial splendour' is a term that could only be used to characterise a very small proportion of Elgar's music, such as the _Coronation Ode_, _Pomp & Circumstance_, etc. But the great bulk of Elgar's music, while sometimes making an acknowledgement to 'imperial splendour', is very different: the three major chamber works, the two concertos, the music for strings, _Enigma_, _Gerontius_, _The Apostles_, _The Kingdom_, etc, etc.


You are correct of course. I was blurring the lines between my essay subject and the Renaissance in general. Of course the imperial part of Elgar is only a fraction; many (most) of his concert-hall pieces had little to do with the Empire.

But I am struck by how little mention is made in the major works on the EMR of any influence that, even in the broadest sense, might be designated as 'from the Empire'. In part that might have to do with Elgar being marginalized in some (but certainly not all) standard works on the subject. I'm afraid I still know too little about the English repertoire of the period to make any real judgment, but it looks almost as if anything. esp music, associated with the Empire was deemed 'non-serious', not concert hall material as a subject. The music-halls and to some extent the Savoy were, well maybe not littered with, but at least produced many comedies set in exotic locations for example. Like _The Mikado_ (Sullivan) or _The Nautch Girl_ (Solomon) or operetta's by Henry Bishop from a little earlier. Maybe this has something to do with the composition of the music/concert hall audiences?

Musically, the only English composer I know so far who really studied and tried to incorporate music from non-European countries and/or British colonies was Gustav Holst, who was into Sanskrit writings. Have to keep looking.

Maybe that might have something to do with


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## silmarillion (Oct 24, 2007)

Elgarian said:


> There's another dimension to this that I think very few people have considered. Parry was at Oxford at the time Ruskin became Professor of Art; I understand that he went to Ruskin's lectures and was very influenced by them. Now, this is interesting because Ruskin's great message concerned the moral aspect of art (the antithesis of 'art for art's sake'). So, you get this seed deposited in the young Parry of a potential moral purpose in music. There's a thread here that can be followed, perhaps, through to Elgar (whom we know was also deeply influenced by Ruskin - 'This is the best of me' etc). Elgar's view of Empire was chivalric and moral - it was about brotherhood and self-sacrifice. I think he sought to imbue his music with those qualities, as did Parry. I think what I'm suggesting is that John Ruskin may be lurking somewhere in the background of the English Musical Renaissance and its relation to Empire, but I don't think anyone's ever checked that out.


And thanks for this as well, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. I will certainly look into it.


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