# Best contemporary composers



## Guest

who are the best contemporary composers after the second world war


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## cougarjuno

contemporary as in still living --

Philip Glass
Sofia Gubaidulina


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## mmsbls

I'm not sure if you are asking members to give you their favorites, trying to find some excellent contemporary music, or desiring a list of the top 10 (or 20 or 30...) comtemporary composers.

There are several good threads and posts that discuss or list contemporary composers and works. You can check 21st Century Listening Chain, Exploring Contemporary Composers, A Contemporary Music Repertoire (a work in progress), and The TC Top 200 Recommended Post-1950 Works List.

If you want some favorites, I'd probably suggest:

Living - 
Hans Abrahamsen
John Coolidge Adams
Thomas Ades
Sofia Gubaidulina
Georg Haas

Dead but composing in the contemporary era - 
Ligeti
Boulez
Dutilleux
Schnittke
Lutoslawski


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## arpeggio

As the resident band junkie I will make the following suggestions:

Donald Grantham
John Mackey
Vincent Persichetti
Frank Ticheli
David Maslanka
Mark Camphouse

You can search You Tube for these composers works and find many fine examples.


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## LezLee

Philip Glass
Terry Riley
Steve Reich
Michael Torke 
Marjan Mozetich
Arvo Pärt
James MacMillan


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Hey Marc! I checked out your blog and we seem to like similar music  My long time favorites are Shostakovich, Messiaen, Britten, Lutoslawski, Denisov, Takemitsu, Schnittke, Davies...Recent "discoveries" are Nono, Boulez, Grisey, Murail. Too many, and none are "best"...


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## MrMeatScience

Of those still composing, I would put Saariaho, Pärt, Ades, John Adams, Reich, Murail, and Philippe Hersant up there. Couldn't posit a ranking, though -- I enjoy the music of all these composers.


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## Bulldog

Not being a poll or game, this thread is in the wrong subforum.


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## Simon Moon

marc bollansee said:


> who are the best contemporary composers after the second world war


This is pretty much the period I listen to, post WWII to the present.

Elliott Carter
Joan Tower
Magnus Lindberg
Sofia Gubaidulina
Penderecki
Ligeti
Thomas Ades
Tōru Takemitsu

Other notables:

Nico Muhly
Jennifer Higdon
Joseph Schwantner
Erkki-Sven Tüür
Narong Prangcharoen


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## LezLee

MrMeatScience said:


> Of those still composing, I would put Saariaho, Pärt, Ades, John Adams, Reich, Murail, and Philippe Hersant up there. Couldn't posit a ranking, though -- I enjoy the music of all these composers.


Sadly, I think you'll find Pärt is decomposing.....


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## KenOC

LezLee said:


> Sadly, I think you'll find Pärt is decomposing.....


Arvo is still alive and kicking, I believe.


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## starthrower

Thea Musgrave
York Holler
George Crumb
Mauricio Kagel
Jonathan Harvey
Wolfgang Rihm
Unsuk Chin
William Schuman
Per Norgard


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## Guest

My favourites currently include Boulez, Lachenmann, Ferneyhough, Mundry, Mitterer, Hölszky, Wozny, Neuwirth, Furrer, Sciarrino and Natasha Barrett.


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## LezLee

KenOC said:


> Arvo is still alive and kicking, I believe.


Oops! Sorry, don't know who I was thinking of.


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## Lisztian

A composer I don't know very well, but is very highly regarded and hasn't been mentioned yet, is Harrison Birtwistle.

Also George Benjamin.

Then there's the less famous but very intriguing Richard Barrett.


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## Art Rock

A couple of important names that I think have not been mentioned yet in this thread:

Aho, Bryars, Corigliano, Rautavaara, Sallinen, Sculthorpe, Silvestrov, Vasks.


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## Guest

hey kjetil, thks for yr reply;try to sample all the contemporary ones mentioned; john luther adams, manoury and g.f.haas are favs of mine;mc


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## Guest

hello dear administrator, i kept the question open on purpose to see what people come up with; i like your reply a lot; great selection; check my blogspot marcbollansee.blogspot.com; they are all mentioned; mc


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## Enthusiast

^^ Birtwistle and Benjamin? They are both definitely composers who I would mention - in fact they are my current favourites and get a lot of my listening time. And if we take the OP's instruction to look post 1950 there are quite a number of composers who need to be mentioned. Most of these have been mentioned but I would certainly include Britten, Tippett, Lutoslawski, Schnittke, Ligeti, Dutilleux, Gubaidulina, Boulez, Carter, Ferneyhough, Stockhausen, Nono, Maxwell Davies, Grisey, Kurtag, Eotvos, Lachenmann, Harvey, Murail. This mixed bag all seem to be "important" (to me anyway!). There are probably others who I would want to include but forgot and some who I remembered and like but didn't think they had proved themselves sufficiently to me yet. And there are many known composers from the last 70 years - some already mentioned! - who I get very little from.


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## Phil loves classical

The only contemporary composer I can really get into consistently is Rihm. I find Part and Rautavaara easy to listen to, but feel their style is somewhat outdated,


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## Portamento

Phil loves classical said:


> The only contemporary composer I can really get into consistently is Rihm. I find Part and Rautavaara easy to listen to, *but feel their style is somewhat outdated*,


That's pretty stuck-up.


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## tdc

Limiting my answer to living composers - Reich, Glass, Gubaidulina, Crumb, Saariaho, Finnissy and Rzwewski are some names that come to mind.


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## Guest

portamento, i like all answers; phil is clearly not specialized in contemporary, but takes the trouble to post; rihm is great but phil should listen to reich, g.f.haas, manoury, gubaidulina for starters


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## Andolink

In no order:

Enno Poppe
Chaya Czernowin
Beat Furrer
Alberto Posadas
Arturo Fuentes
Per Nørgård
Marina Khorkova
Rebecca Saunders
James Dillon 
Michael Finnissy
Alexander Goehr
Harrison Birtwistle
Aaron Cassidy
Liza Lim
Wolfgang Rihm
Brian Ferneyhough
David Hudry
Charles Wourinen
Walter Zimmermann
Raphaël Cendo
Clara Ionatta
Helmut Lachenmann
Johannes Maria Staud
Michael Jarrell
Friedrich Cerha
Ulrich Alexander Kreppein
Hector Parra


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## Josquin13

My focus in the recent years has been on post WW2 Scandinavian composers. & I've especially enjoyed exploring & getting to know the music of Vagn Holmboe, Joonas Kokkonen, Allan Pettersson, and Einojuhani Rautavaara; as well as Magnus Lindberg, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Anders Hillborg, Paavo Heininen, Harri Vuori, Ib Nørholm, Poul Ruders, Einar Englund, Hans Abrahamsen, Bent Sørensen, and Per Nørgård (& I'm sure I'm forgetting several...).

There is a great deal of music by these composers that you can sample on You Tube for free:

Vagn Holmboe: His 13 Symphonies are important post WW2 works: https://www.allmusic.com/album/release/vagn-holmboe-the-complete-symphonies-mr0002676474. His Symphony No. 8 "Sinfonia boreale" is essential listening (unfortunately, there's not a good recording of it on You Tube): https://www.amazon.com/Holmboe-Symphony-No-Sinfonia-Boreale/dp/B002MG8DXG





















































https://www.amazon.com/Four-Symphon...kmr1&keywords=holmboe+symphonic+metamorphosis
https://www.amazon.com/Vagn-Holmboe...91&sr=1-1&keywords=vagn+holmboe+string+kontra
https://www.amazon.com/Holmboe-Bras...75262&sr=1-2&keywords=holmboe+brass+concertos

Joonas Kokkonen: His 4 Symphonies, 3 String Quartets, Piano Quintet, Wind Quintet, Cello Sonata, Requiem, The Last Temptations (opera), and underrated solo piano works (5 Bagatelles, 2 Little Preludes, Pielavesi Suites, etc.) are essential listening. For the symphonies, the recordings by Sakari Oramo, Paavo Berglund, & Okko Kamu are excellent:






























https://www.allmusic.com/album/joonas-kokkonen-string-quartets-nos-1-3-piano-quintet-mw0001805004

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL09YxyTF9rGGoPzgLfkSiyqhtWN29KqZG



























https://www.amazon.com/Piano-Works-...id=1545770568&sr=1-7&keywords=joonas+kokkonen

Allan Pettersson:






























Jouni Kaipainen:






Einojuhani Rautavaara:




































Per Nørgård:






















Paavo Heininen:




































Ib Nørholm:














Magnus Lindberg:




























Esa-Pekka Salonen:






Anders Hillborg:


















Bent Sørensen:


















Poul Ruders:






























All of the above links, of course, are meant to be explored over time, at your leisure.


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## Guest

thks josquin for your interesting reply; i know all the composers except heininen, vuori and norholm; i share your love for holmboe especially the symphonies and the sqs; you help us discover which is the aim of my thread


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## Red Terror

The following favorites are still alive, which is rather a luxury in our beloved genre:


György Kurtág
Vyacheslav Artyomov
Michael Hersch
Brian Ferneyhough
Richard Barrett
Beat Furrer
George Benjamin


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## CnC Bartok

For me, there are two glaring omissions from Josquin13's otherwise comprehensive list of contemporary Nordic composers, and those are:

The Finnish composer Aulis Sallinen: Eight Symphonies to date, several fine operas, that are well worth hearing (and if I had the time or money, seeing, preferably at Savonlinna); six Quartets, concertos, and a fine series of so-called Chamber Music's. His style has become more user friendly in recent years, but I don't think he has done this unsuccessfully. He's perfectly happy to use influences from popular music too, and is perfectly capable of both fun






or of deep feeling






The recently-deceased Estonian Veljo Tormis: choral composer of real quality. Mainly folk-inspired, but brilliant! Beautiful, and often powerful stuff.





 (A Curse upon Iron)





 (from Forgotten Peoples)





 (How can I recognize my home)





 (God Protect us from War)


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## Josquin13

marc bollansee said:


> thks josquin for your interesting reply; i know all the composers except heininen, vuori and norholm; i share your love for holmboe especially the symphonies and the sqs; you help us discover which is the aim of my thread


My pleasure. You might be interested to know that Ib Nørholm was a student of Vagn Holmboe's, & is 87 years old (nearly 88): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ib_Nørholm. So far I've liked his symphonies most of his opus, but his chamber music is interesting too. Though I've yet to hear any of his choral works. Like his teacher, Nørholm has now composed 13 Symphonies (to date), with his 13th coming in 2013.

Harri Vuori is a recent discovery. Since I didn't provide any links to his music above, I'll do so here:

Solo piano music:

"Ylapuolla you ja hallan", translated as "Beyond Night and Frost": pianist Katriina Korte: 




"The Moon in three windows" (in three parts): pianist Katriina Korte:














KRI for orchestra: 




Symphonies 1 & 2: 




The Mandelbrot Echoes: 



Mythic Images: 



Concerto for Saxophone & Orchestra: 









Les mouvements interrompus: 




Ave Maria: 




As Robert pointed out, I omitted Aulus Sallinen. I also didn't mention Kaija Saariaho, Leif Segerstam, Egil Hovland, Arne Nordheim, Pehr Henrik Nordgren, Lars-Erik Larsson, Karl-Birger Blomdahl, Jaakko Kuusisto, & many others: Simply because I've yet to explore these composers in any depth.

Here's a brief sampling of Kuusisto's recent Violin Concerto, played by Elina Vähälä, which I found worthwhile:






Another composer that I forget to mention yesterday is Erland von Koch (1910-2009), whose music is worth hearing:






















Finally, the Engegård Quartet has recorded two of Arne Nørheim's String Quartets, one from 1956 & "Duplex", which are both worth hearing I think:










The following BIS CD of Nørheim's Violin Concerto (played by Arve Tellefsen), and other works, is on my wish list: https://www.amazon.com/Nordheim-Con...1-fkmr0&keywords=arne+norheim+violin+concerto

My two cents.


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## joen_cph

11 among the living

- Nørgård
- Saariaho
- Murail
- Pärt 
- Gubaidulina
- Silvestrov
- Crumb 
- Birtwistle
- Ades
- Narbutaite
- Penderecki

13 among the deceased, excluding Stravinsky, Martinu, Britten, Sorabji and Shostakovitch

- Lutoslawski
- Schnittke
- Messiaen
- Pettersson
- Ligeti
- Takemitsu
- Henze
- Rochberg
- Holmboe
- Keuris
- Sumera
- Rautavaara
- Dutilleux


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## Mifek

^Rautavaara passed away two years ago...


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## PeterFromLA

Twenty (among the living):

Kurtag
Silvestrov 
Reich
Glass
Dusapin
Dalbavie
Haas
Adams
Chin
Gubaidulina
Vine
Saariaho
Thorvaldsdottir
Szymanski
Andre
Wolfe
Abrahamsen
Corigliano
Ades
Salonen


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## joen_cph

^ Yeah, I like Szymanski too, I'm not acquainted with him writing works on a bigger scale though, besides the nice _Partita for Harpsichord and Orchestra_. And Corigliano's _Piano Concerto_ is magnificent.


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## PeterFromLA

Szymanski has an opera, Qudsja Zaher, which was reviewed by Alex Ross in The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/03/drowned-sounds


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## Guest

dear terror,
thks for your great list; the composers you mention are not easy listening, but have certainly a lot of depth; you encouraged us to listen more to artyomov and hersch who are top class; barrett is a bit of an enigma up to now and will need follow-up; could you post another list, because i am looking forward to your approach;thks


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## Guest

great eclectic selection; as a matter of interest i wonder if you still listen to earlier composers like xenakis, stockhausen, reich, lamonte young, boulez, berio, nono,


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## Guest

dear terror,
thks for your great list; the composers you mention are not easy listening, but have certainly a lot of depth; you encouraged us to listen more to artyomov and hersch who are top class; barrett is a bit of an enigma up to now and will need follow-up; could you post another list, because i am looking forward to your approach;thks


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## Enthusiast

PeterFromLA said:


> Twenty (among the living):
> 
> Kurtag
> Silvestrov
> Reich
> Glass
> Dusapin
> Dalbavie
> Haas
> Adams
> Chin
> Gubaidulina
> Vine
> Saariaho
> Thorvaldsdottir
> Szymanski
> Andre
> Wolfe
> Abrahamsen
> Corigliano
> Ades
> Salonen


An interestingly mixed list. It includes some of my favourites (Kurtag, Gubaidulina, Dusapin) and some who I don't care for very much. But it misses several who I could never do without including Peter Eotvos, George Benjamin and Harrison Birtwistle. Do you know them (and decided not to include them)?


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## Guest

As an initiator of the thread i would like to post my personal preferences:
1 The double classical Trinity (Europe-USA)
-Scelsi, Xenakis, Stockhausen
-Reich, Riley, La Monte Young
2 German-French
-Ruzicka, Rihm, Widmann
-Murail, Dusapin, Dalbavie
3 Scandinavian
-Holmboe, Saariaho,Lindberg, Norgard, Sallinen
4 American
-J.Adams, J.L.Adams, M.Hersch, J.Wolfe
5 English
-Ades, Benjamin, Turnage
6 Polish
-Gorecki, Pendrecki
7 Armenian, Georgian
-Kancheli, Komitas
8 Russian
-Gubaidulina, Schnittke, Silvestrov, Artyomov
9 Baltic
-Pärt, Vasks, Tuur
10 Asian
-Takemitsu, Chen


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## PeterFromLA

Hi Enthusiast. I am familiar with the music of those composers you mention, some more than others (HB and GB more than PE). I found their work interesting, esp Eotvos' pieces, but have not taken to them as much as those named above. I gave up on Benjamin back in the late 90s, but maybe i should listen to his recent staged pieces, which have received rave reviews. 

I forgot to include some favorite composers in my list such as Rihm, Murail, Part, Norgard and Lindberg. Those five would've made mine a list of 25. It's an eclectic group overall. One of the benefits of not being a composer is not having to dislike music that does not conform to the aesthetic sensibility that underlies my own work.


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## Enthusiast

^^^ Fair enough. I had to ask because I count Benjamin and Birtwistle as favourites and - such is subjective taste - I find it hard to believe that anyone who had an ear for the contemporary could not like them! The Benjamin operas are compelling but I would also recommend this record even if you know one of the pieces.


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## CnC Bartok

While I'm banging on elsewhere about Czech music, I'd like to mention a handful of very decent near-contemporary composers from that part of the world:

Two very fine symphonists - Viktor Kalabis And Miroslav Kabeláč

Also Zdeněk Lukáš, Svatopluk Havelka

But for me the best of this lot, the "Czech Messiaen", Petr Eben.


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## joen_cph

Also Lubos Fiser, Marek Kopelent, Jan Klusak.


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## Jacck

joen_cph said:


> Also Lubos Fiser, Marek Kopelent, Jan Klusak.


anything in particular from Luboš Fišer? I know only his magical soundtrack Valerie And Her Week of Wonders
concerning film music composers, there is also the recently deceased Karel Svoboda, and Petr Hapka and Zdeněk Liška


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## joen_cph

Yes, I've liked the movie excerpts I've seen with his music very much too. A Czech Morricone 






*Fiser* wrote in an often rather primitivist style. But: _15 Pictures after Dürer_, _piano sonatas_, _vocal works_.

*Kopelent*: _Canto deli Augei_, concert aria for Soprano & orchestra.

*Klusak*: _Mahler Variations_, _Inventions_ series.


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## Jacck

joen_cph said:


> Yes, I've liked the movie excerpts I've seen with his music very much too. A Czech Morricone


I have the feeling that after 1950, world class composers mostly disappeared from Czechoslovakia. There was Dobiáš and similar composers, but they never attained the height of Dvořák, Janáček etc. In contrast, many brilliant composers appeared in Poland (Lutoslawski, Penderecki, Baczewicz, Preisner etc). But after 1950, we had some really good film composers. The best one of those was imho Karel Svoboda. The second best Zdeněk Liška. They composed so many grand memorable melodies. But they will stay unknown, because the movies will never be known. If you want to watch a nice Czech fairy-tale with English subs and the music of Zdeněk Liška, here is the Little Mermaid


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## PeterFromLA

mmsbls said:


> Dead but composing in the contemporary era -
> Ligeti
> Boulez
> Dutilleux
> Schnittke
> Lutoslawski


I'm likely to second this list if we are talking about dead composers from the post 1945 period. There's a chance I might replace Dutilleux with Berio, Messiaen, or Feldman, but nevertheless that group of five is pretty much on point for me.


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## sonance

(not ranking, just adding names not to be missed ...)

Sally Beamish
Ellen Taaffe Zwilich
Augusta Read Thomas
Nikolaus Brass
Cristobal Halffter
Krzysztof Meyer
Lei Liang


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## sonance

Jacck said:


> anything in particular from Luboš Fišer? I know only his magical soundtrack Valerie And Her Week of Wonders [...]


As for Czech composers, besides Lubos Fiser there are Otmar Mácha and Sylvie Bodorová. I came to know them by a compilation of Czech string quartets, which I do enjoy greatly.










Due to that CD I started to explore more of their works.

Lubos Fiser: I recommend his piano sonatas, for example:
- no. 5: 



- no. 8: 




Otmar Mácha (1922 - 2006)
Besides the above mentioned string quartet I got the Variations on a Czech Medieval Song for violin and orchestra (" Pure Virgin") which had been part of another compilation with works by Fiser, Bodorova and Macha, but you might be more interested in other works:
- Night and Hope (symphonic poem): 



- Variations on a Theme and Death of Jan Rychlik: 



- Violin Concerto: 




Sylvie Bodorová
- Piano Concerto: 



- Violin Concerto: 



- "Pontem video": 




Both - Mácha and Bodorová - composed at least one symphony, which I don't know yet. In general it is very regretttable that contemporary Czech music doesn't exist in international reviews.


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## jalexis

I nominate Simon Goffin of Belgium as a very talented composer, who has not made a real breakthrough yet.


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## 20centrfuge

marc bollansee said:


> who are the best contemporary composers after the second world war


So that would be after 1945:

I'll just give some of my favorites:

John Adams
Wolfgang Rihm
Michel Van der Aa
Thomas Ades
Peter Maxwell Davies


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## 20centrfuge

sonance said:


> (not ranking, just adding names not to be missed ...)
> 
> Sally Beamish
> Ellen Taaffe Zwilich
> Augusta Read Thomas
> Nikolaus Brass
> Cristobal Halffter
> Krzysztof Meyer
> Lei Liang


Augusta Read Thomas creates the most beautifully crafted, utterly soulless music ever.


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## Guest

Hi Kjetil, 
I would like you to give a bit more feedback on my blogspot, as there are many sections. I honestly believe it is the greatest resource for recorded classical music from 1990 onwards (I hate everything with bad recording sound so most recordings before 1990). I also do not like the approach of the old-timers, because I am living today and feel we know so much more about music than the old-timers and also have so much better sound quality.I am probably the greatest specialist (not on a technical base but on an experience basis) on contemporary classical music alive although I like to remain humble and learn from others. The great thing with talkclassical is that in a week I learned more than during 10 years with a supposedly great French magazine like Diapason. I added composers that I never heard about (Artyomov f.e).
My blogspot lists about 160 major contemporary composers. A lot of these come from Scandinavia and I do not understand how Denmark, Finnland, Sweden, have so many outstanding composers today. I would be interested to have your input on this.
I love Sibelius, Nielsen, Holmboe, Abrahamsen, Saariaho, Lindberg, Kokkonen, Linggaard, Norgard, Sallinen, Ruders, even Pettersson.
Looking forward to hearing from you. best Marc


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## Guest

I am familiar with the composers you have listed and would like to go a step beyond and ask you why you like augusta read thomas; feel free to answer in a very relaxed way; thks; marc


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## Guest

dear Peter,
Obviously i could not have quarrels with the list nor with the replacements you suggest who are all important composers in CC (classic Contemporary). I want to go beyond the known names and am really aiming at the discoveries. That is also why the title of my thread is very open. This is also an encouragement to all our members to continue and try to discover new meaningful composers. As a junior member I want to challenge TC to go from choosing between Schubert's ninth and fifth to really finding out who contributes to CC now. Nobody has ever mentioned Mohammed Fairouz for example. I consider him to be a major CCC.
Best Marc


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## Kjetil Heggelund

marc bollansee said:


> Hi Kjetil,
> I would like you to give a bit more feedback on my blogspot, as there are many sections. I honestly believe it is the greatest resource for recorded classical music from 1990 onwards (I hate everything with bad recording sound so most recordings before 1990). I also do not like the approach of the old-timers, because I am living today and feel we know so much more about music than the old-timers and also have so much better sound quality.I am probably the greatest specialist (not on a technical base but on an experience basis) on contemporary classical music alive although I like to remain humble and learn from others. The great thing with talkclassical is that in a week I learned more than during 10 years with a supposedly great French magazine like Diapason. I added composers that I never heard about (Artyomov f.e).
> My blogspot lists about 160 major contemporary composers. A lot of these come from Scandinavia and I do not understand how Denmark, Finnland, Sweden, have so many outstanding composers today. I would be interested to have your input on this.
> I love Sibelius, Nielsen, Holmboe, Abrahamsen, Saariaho, Lindberg, Kokkonen, Linggaard, Norgard, Sallinen, Ruders, even Pettersson.
> Looking forward to hearing from you. best Marc


Hey Marc! Thanks for the encouragement! I would like to give my best reply. Your blogspot is an ocean of great examples of music. However, I find the content not so easy to search through, I have to scroll here and there...After some scrolling I could get an idea of composers that I miss in your lists, but maybe it doesn't matter so much, since it's not my list (that would be much shorter  ) The Scandinavian composers you mention in the post above miss out on some important Norwegian and Swedish composers. From the top of my head: Fartein Valen, Arne Nordheim from Norway and Sven David Sandström from Sweden (I'm actually pretty bad at the local composers), and please listen to Peter Maxwell Davies and Edison Denisov! 2 albums I bought last year are with almost famous younger generation Norwegian, Eivind Buene and Finnish, Sebastan Fagerlund. 
Regarding your blogspot, I think it will serve its purpose better, if one can f.ex. click on a link for a decade or letter, to easier search the vast ocean 
I also share your view on "old-timers". On TC, some of them are gods...


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## Guest

thks so much kjetil for yr great tips.i will try to make my blogspot more user-friendly. maxie and arne are in my blogspot, but like you say they are just blips in the vast ocean.take care


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## sonance

marc bollansee said:


> I am familiar with the composers you have listed and would like to go a step beyond and ask you why you like augusta read thomas; feel free to answer in a very relaxed way; thks; marc


Marc - I guess your post is directed to me as the poster 20centrfuge describes the music as "utterly soulless music ever".

It has been a while since I listened to her music. So this morning I relistened to some orchestral and chamber music:



















Based on this relistening - and remembering how mesmerized I felt earlier when exploring other works via Youtube - I don't agree with 20centrfuge. Not at all. You ask what it is I like about her music. I'm no professional critic nor can I analyze music. It is just that Augusta Read Thomas' music succeeds in creating serene atmospheres, "intricate webs" (term borrowed by a composition of Liz Johnson which I ordered last week). I like the inventiveness, the playfulness. Listening to her music sometimes is like watching a child play and explore the myriads of possibilities, not only watching, but likewise to get involved. Quite often she uses elements of jazz; I consider her music to be instantly recognizable American music.

Concerning "soulless": her music does not exude pain, or worry, or melancholy. So whoever is looking for deep emotions or passionate outbursts may find himself/herself disappointed. But I think it perfectly okay to be in a state/to create a state of playfulness, of serene contentment, of lazy sunday afternoons, of following one's own curiosity or just gazing into the stars.

I can't describe it otherwise. Maybe you'd like to read some professional reviews?

Musicweb international
chamber music:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Aug14/Thomas_chamber_NI6261.htm
orchestral music
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Feb14/Thomas_orchestral_NI6258.htm

Gramophone:
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/contemporary-composer-augusta-read-thomas

P.S.: I know Mohammed Fairouz, but again need to relisten.


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## Simon Moon

20centrfuge said:


> Augusta Read Thomas creates the most beautifully crafted, utterly soulless music ever.


I _so_ disagree with this statement.

I have no problem hearing 'soul' in her music.

On a side note, I can not help but note, how often TC members seem to state their opinion as if it is objective fact.


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## Guest

dear sonance,
thks so much for your insightful and fresh personal appreciation and evaluation of thomas' work. there are indeed references in her music that are typically american and difficult to grasp for a european like myself.i will study her work more in depth. 
we sometimes compare masters like gubaidulina and saariaho to younger composers whose music is a bit lighter and this i suspect is what centrfug is referring to.the composers all have different backgrounds which leads to different outcomes.


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## PeterFromLA

marc bollansee said:


> I am probably the greatest specialist (not on a technical base but on an experience basis) on contemporary classical music alive although I like to remain humble and learn from others.


Wow. Um. Hmmm. Okay.


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## ojoncas

Marc-André Hamelin’s etudes


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## Guest

I like some of your choices like joan tower, jennifer higdon, who are outstanding female composers and show the strength of american contemporary; i would add julia wolfe, who does not have a large catalog but whose music is very fascinating; the idea of this thread is to let people discover interesting, meaningful composers; and also to consolidate the strength of the established ones, like gubaidulina, penderecki, ligeti; i do not know prangcharoen but will listen to his music, as i have a particular interest in asian contemporary;


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## Guest

i like the last word of your post; check my blogspot: marcbollansee.blogspot.com ; maybe you will understand; some of my peers who write regular comments on contemporary music have exactly the same views as mine, which is interesting because it means there is a kind of consensus; for example we all believe peter ruzicka is a major composer; we also have tremendous belief in the strength and future of per norgard; these composers like most of the great ones in the past also have other major interests besides music (norgard is interested by science f.e.); you can probably guess who my all-time favourite composer is; a guy who was expert in architecture, mathematics, stochastics, computers, electronics


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## Guest

excellent choices; all of them are among my favourites in contemporary; the idea of this thread is to let people discover composers they do not know yet, so plse feel free to contribute more


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## Guest

sorry for the late answer; obviously i totally agree with your choices; the idea of my thread is to consolidate the best established contemporary composers (weeding out the ones that are not really that great) and to find out about the ones that work today and that are not yet fully recognized (peter ruzicka would be a perfect example); it also opens up a window for music from other continents (asia, south america); my blogspot incorporates those.


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## stone

I'll limit my answer to ten of my favourite composers who are still living:

Barrett, Natasha
Dillon, James
Estrada, Julio
Ferneyhough, Brian
Finnissy, Michael
Furrer, Beat
Lachenmann, Helmut
Murail, Tristan
Posadas, Alberto
Sciarrino, Salvatore


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## Iota

sonance said:


>


Pilgrim Soul from the above seemed a somewhat ecstatic, appealing thing on first hearing. Glad this composer was mentioned, I'll be exploring further.

As far as the OP goes, I don't know nearly enough to meaningfully answer the question, but off the top of my head works that have turned my head recently include,

Richard Barrett - Dark Matter
Sciarrino - Luci Mie Traditrici
Per Norgard - String Quartet No.10


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## Guest

thks iota for your contribution; i still have not made up my mind on augusta read thomas, although there are some pieces from her that i like very much; however i believe joan tower, jennifer higdon and julia woolfe are stronger american female composers; if you like norgard try to listen to all his piano music; he is one of the best composers alive


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## Guest

hi stone, your selection is very unusual because most of the composers are not easy-listening; but i do agree with your choices ; the only one i am not too familiar with is julio estrada whose music is very extreme; could you plse explain to our members what draws you to his music; thks in advance


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## Guest

dear ojoncas, 
hamelin is one of my favourite pianists and his etudes are quite good; however I expect a bit more from you in the sense that I would like all who post on my thread to make a great contribution; i am sure you must have other contemporary composers; let us hear it


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist

marc bollansee said:


> I like some of your choices like joan tower, jennifer higdon, who are outstanding female composers and show the strength of american contemporary; i would add julia wolfe, who does not have a large catalog but whose music is very fascinating; the idea of this thread is to let people discover interesting, meaningful composers; and also to consolidate the strength of the established ones, like gubaidulina, penderecki, ligeti; i do not know prangcharoen but will listen to his music, as i have a particular interest in asian contemporary;


I can't really get into Higdon... any recommendations for slightly "easier listening" by her?


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## Guest

hi brahms, recommended are
-orch: violin cto (Hahn), cto for orch (Atlanta SO), All Things-majestic (Nashville SO)
-chamber: string poetic for violin and piano(Koh-Uchida), piano trio (Lincoln Trio)
very accessible IMHO; gl


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## Enthusiast

The best. We CM fans tend to judge new music in terms of whether or not it will last into posterity. Many of us probably know some music from the past that was highly valued when it was written but which did not really survive (except as a rarity or an alleged "neglected masterpiece"). Many of us can probably see now why it didn't survive and I guess one question we might have about the music of today is which composers/pieces will we be valuing and listening to in 100 years? History suggests to us that we probably won't be very good at answering that question. Whether it matters or not I am not sure. What's wrong with the idea that some CM is for us now?

Anyway, with a great number of really great post-1945 composers writing music that needs quite a lot of our attention if it is to deliver its fruit to us - Boulez, Nono, Maderna, Stockhausen, Carter to name some of my favourites - as well as many more who wrote music that is more easily approached by general listeners ... and with little agreement among fans concerning _their _relative merits ... that there is a considerable backlog of great composers who are only now (and very slowly!) entering the repertoire. Meanwhile, the world has moved on (is the period since WW2 really a single era?) and there are very many interesting composers writing today. To have heard them all properly (with the space to really give their music a chance) is virtually impossible - even for all but those whose work involves doing little else. So there is a danger of rejecting some too quickly and giving others too much precedence. We can still share our enthusiasms, of course, and as we go on our understanding and taste do develop. But, when taste anyway is such a subjective matter - and it takes a wide consensus of the informed to come even close to an understanding of what the composers of the now distant past really stand for - can we really meaningfully or reliably reject anyone of repute composing today? All we can say is "x doesn't appeal to me (yet)" or "I tried but didn't get into y". But there is so much to explore, so much pleasure to be had.


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## arpeggio

Enthusiast said:


> We CM fans tend to judge new music in terms of whether or not it will last into posterity.


Wouldn't be great if we could listen to music just because we enjoy and not worry about posterity.


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## Enthusiast

^^^ Maybe. But if posterity measures something of value then it would save a lot of time to know what music is going to last. But we _would _miss quite a lot of fun on the way.


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## Guest

to enthusiast:the last sentence of your post is exactly the purpose of my thread; to explore more and to find pleasure in composers that are unknown to most of us; since the beginning of this thread i have discovered more than 10 fascinating composers and the reason is very simple; americans are generally more knowledgeable about their composers and europeans about theirs; scandinavians pay more attention to their composers and so on; much has happened since ww II (serialism, minimalism, post-everything, present avant-garde etc..); there is very often a thread in the evolutions (from sibelius to norgard, from messiaen to xenakis to dusapin; shostakovich to gubaidulina;corigliano to muhly etc.), but of course we are also blessed to have new composers coming out of the blue; i truly believe the 60 year period between 1950 and 2010 is mind-blowing in terms of musical quality, but the truth is that your favorites who also belong to mine are not household names, because of the structure of our societies; so let us exchange and enjoy


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## Simon Moon

marc bollansee said:


> to enthusiast:the last sentence of your post is exactly the purpose of my thread; to explore more and to find pleasure in composers that are unknown to most of us; since the beginning of this thread i have discovered more than 10 fascinating composers and the reason is very simple; americans are generally more knowledgeable about their composers and europeans about theirs; scandinavians pay more attention to their composers and so on; much has happened since ww II (serialism, minimalism, post-everything, present avant-garde etc..); there is very often a thread in the evolutions (from sibelius to norgard, from messiaen to xenakis to dusapin; shostakovich to gubaidulina;corigliano to muhly etc.), but of course we are also blessed to have new composers coming out of the blue; *i truly believe the 60 year period between 1950 and 2010 is mind-blowing in terms of musical quality, but the truth is that your favorites who also belong to mine are not household names, because of the structure of our societies; so let us exchange and enjoy*


The bolded part above is the reason why I came to Talk Classical in the first place. To learn about new composers.

Little did I know when I joined, that the vast majority of threads concerning post WWII and contemporary classical would contain mostly posts deriding contemporary and modern classical.

Before I came to TC, I posted on jazz and progressive music forums (still do), where the vast majority of members are open to discovering new artists, styles, and music that push a few boundaries. With most jazz and prog fans I know, the sense of discovery is quite strong.

I assumed, mistakingly, that a high percentage of hard core classical listeners would have similar senses of discovery.

On a side note, over on ProgressiveEars.org forums, there a lot of prog fans that also love classical. But unlike here, the vast majority of them are more into post WWII and contemporary composers, than earlier composers.


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## Art Rock

Simon Moon said:


> Little did I know when I joined, that the vast majority of threads concerning post WWII and contemporary classical would contain mostly posts deriding contemporary and modern classical.


I think if you would look into it that these comments are made by a relatively small number of members (10? 20?). Of course, they feel obliged to state, re-state and re-re-state their contempt for this music in each and every single thread about it, so it looks like there is much more opposition than there actually is.


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## Simon Moon

Art Rock said:


> I think if you would look into it that these comments are made by a relatively small number of members (10? 20?). Of course, they feel obliged to state, re-state and re-re-state their contempt for this music in each and every single thread about it, so it looks like there is much more opposition than there actually is.


You know what?

I am going to admit to the possibility that I am guilty of confirmation bias, and believe that you are likely correct.

I will pay more attention to those that feel the need to post their negative comments, and see if it the same small number of people.


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## Jacck

Simon Moon said:


> Little did I know when I joined, that the vast majority of threads concerning post WWII and contemporary classical would contain mostly posts deriding contemporary and modern classical..


maybe if you stopped whining and actually read this very thread, you would find out that there is not a single negative comment about contemporary music in all of this "contemporary composers" thread. So the first attack on the opposite camp comes actually from you.


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## Guest

cheer up simon. have you seen any negative posts in my thread?; the reason why classical listeners are often reluctant towards contemporary is because classical has such a long history. it is also difficult to get young people on board for classical contemporary 
because there is so much competition from other musical genres.my daughter comes from pop and einaudi and still has difficulties with mahler, but at least she goes to those concerts and also to the most accessible contemporary. it is a long process for most people.there is a group in TC which is really interested by contemporary and we have to build on that and get others interested by starting eye and ear-opening threads.let us communicate our passion.
to me the only art form left is music;the visual arts and the movies are controlled by a few people who make decisions in offices, like the fashion people who decide on the next collection


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## Xisten267

Just in case this may be interesting for you, I took the trouble of listing and actually counting how many times each composer that appeared on this thread was cited. There were almost two hundred entries for "best contemporary composers", but only a few of these received more than one citation by the members. Contrary to my expectations though, there was only a weak convergence of citations toward the name that most appeared (Gubaidulina), what may suggest that there may be many great contemporary composers out there to explore than I though! 

I just started a poll *here* to see if there's a stronger convergence of preference for the fifteen most cited composers in this thread until now (with the exception of Benjamin). Please, feel free to vote, I'm curious to see the results.

The results of this exercise, in alphabetical order per number of citations, are:

9 citations: Gubaidulina;

8 citations: (-)

7 citations: Ades, Murail, Nørgård;

6 citations: Adams, Reich, Rihm;

5 citations: Benjamin, Birtwistle, Boulez, Ferneyhough, Lutoslawski, Pärt, Saariaho, Schnittke;

4 citations: Davies, Furrer, Glass, Kurtag, Lachenmann, Ligeti, Lindberg, Penderecki, Silvestrov, Takemitsu;

3 citations: Abrahamsen, Artyomov, Barrett (Richard), Britten, Crumb, Dusapin, Dutilleux, Haas, Hersch, Holmboe, Messiaen, Nono, Rautavaara, Sallinen, Sciarrino, Stockhausen, Thomas;

2 citations: Barrett (Natasha), Berio, Carter, Chin, Corigliano, Dalbavie, Denisov, Dillon, Eotvos, Grisey, Harvey, Nørheim, Pettersson, Posadas, Riley, Salonen, Shostakovich, Svoboda, Szymanski, Tüür, Vasks, Wolfe, Xenakis, Young.

As I said, there were almost two hundred names cited here, so I didn't show those that appeared only once due to the size of this list.


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## Xisten267

<< Please, disconsider this. >>


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## Guest

i am quite happy with the response to my thread and the interesting names that have been floated like artyomov, hersch, A.R.Thomas , However i do not get from you guys and galls a consensus of a breakthrough in terms of younger composers, although i see one myself. I am also baffled that totally major composers like Scelsi, Xenakis, Rihm, Ruzicka or Golijov are not really recognized as the geniuses they are. And i do not forget the Scandinavians like Saariaho, Lindberg, Norgard who are top-class.
As a European i am perhaps more aware of their capacities. But then do not forget that I am a major advocate of American treasures like Reich, Riley, Feldmann, J.Adams, J.L. Adams, J.Tower, M.Fairouz and some interesting English composers like Ferneyhough, Turnage, Ades, Anna Clyne.The Chinese and Japanese are also worthy of your attention. I will give you all a fortnight to comment on all this and will then close my thread and start a new one. Hopefully you got some listening pleasure out of it.


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## StDior

All my favorite has been mentioned. Except one: Horatiu Radulescu. I just re-listened to his 4th string quartet and I had to write.


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## Enthusiast

marc bollansee said:


> However i do not get from you guys and galls a consensus of a breakthrough in terms of younger composers, although i see one myself.


I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but there are a great many interested and rewarding younger composers (how young are you thinking, though?). But that is the problem. We can hear interesting and rewarding music but to get it into some sort of order about who is coming from where and to recognise the distinct voices so quickly requires more time or money that I have!



marc bollansee said:


> I am also baffled that totally major composers like Scelsi, Xenakis, Rihm, Ruzicka or Golijov are not really recognized as the geniuses they are. And i do not forget the Scandinavians like Saariaho, Lindberg, Norgard who are top-class.
> As a European i am perhaps more aware of their capacities. But then do not forget that I am a major advocate of American treasures like Reich, Riley, Feldmann, J.Adams, J.L. Adams, J.Tower, M.Fairouz and some interesting English composers like Ferneyhough, Turnage, Ades, Anna Clyne.The Chinese and Japanese are also worthy of your attention. I will give you all a fortnight to comment on all this and will then close my thread and start a new one. Hopefully you got some listening pleasure out of it.


Not recognised here or not recognised out there in the real world? This forum is not filled with people who love recent music. There are some of us but it is still quite common for there to be lengthy battles about the merits (or the lack of merits) of Schoenberg! If you are referring to their recognition in the real world then I agree. It sometimes seems that the absolutely new get some attention but that those from the 1960s onwards are not making the transition. Boulez and Carter may be living on and many of the Americans you mention. But many fine composers are not at the moment. Perhaps things will change and the secne will become more adventurous again.


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## starthrower

Simon Moon said:


> The bolded part above is the reason why I came to Talk Classical in the first place. To learn about new composers.
> 
> Little did I know when I joined, that the vast majority of threads concerning post WWII and contemporary classical would contain mostly posts deriding contemporary and modern classical.
> 
> Before I came to TC, I posted on jazz and progressive music forums (still do), where the vast majority of members are open to discovering new artists, styles, and music that push a few boundaries. With most jazz and prog fans I know, the sense of discovery is quite strong.
> 
> I assumed, mistakingly, that a high percentage of hard core classical listeners would have similar senses of discovery.
> 
> On a side note, over on ProgressiveEars.org forums, there a lot of prog fans that also love classical. But unlike here, the vast majority of them are more into post WWII and contemporary composers, than earlier composers.


The resistance and indifference to modern music here is quite discouraging. Even at Progressive Ears it's tough to get much of a discussion going about modern orchestral composers. Most members there are more interested in avant and other progressive rock ensembles. But at least there's no petty put downs like you find here quite frequently.

I've never encountered people talking about the electric guitar like it was a tool of degenerates like I've experienced here this week. It feels like the return to the Spanish inquisition. It's really silly. This attitude has driven away some of the best and most knowledgeable members from this forum.


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## Guest

thk you stdior for pointing this out. Radulescu was simply one of the major and most innovative composers of the 20 th cty. his musical notation was intricate and might be the reason why few of his works have been recorded. His sqs 4-6 are absolute masterpieces as are his best piano sonatas and his piano cto (the quest). those interested to discover radulescu can also listen to his sqs 1-3 on youtube.his output is not so small and his widow is trying to get more attention for his music. It shows that it is so difficult for composers to break thru even if they are top class. another composer who has not been mentioned and whom i like a lot is vladimir godar,a slovak. Not as groundbreaking as radulescu, but hauntingly beautiful. sq 4 by radulescu and a cello sonata by godar would make for a great listening experience.


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## Jacck

starthrower said:


> The resistance and indifference to modern music here is quite discouraging. Even at Progressive Ears it's tough to get much of a discussion going about modern orchestral composers. Most members there are more interested in avant and other progressive rock ensembles. But at least there's no petty put downs like you find here quite frequently.
> 
> I've never encountered people talking about the electric guitar like it was a tool of degenerates like I've experienced here this week. It feels like the return to the Spanish inquisition. It's really silly. This attitude has driven away some of the best and most knowledgeable members from this forum.


Mozart and modern music fans are the least capable of toleraring any critique. I wonder why? Modern music is difficult, many people struggle with it, and then they put their reactions stemming from thig struggle here. Why do you constanty feel offended when anyone writes something negative about your music or composer? That is something I do not understand. Even if there are negative comments about modern music, there are also many positive comments from like-minded members. Why don't you simply concentrate on the positive ones and ignore the negative ones?
And I also noticed that the amount of negative comments correlates with how the topic of the thread is worded. If you wrote some positive nonconfrontation thread about why you enjoy a particular composer/music, there would not be many. If someone comes and writes that "modern music is the most informed of tradition" and then compares it to Bach (as shirime did here), it will obviously trigger strong resistance.


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## Guest

dear starthrower, i intend to contribute to TC and to try and change attitudes so that members are less rigid and are willing to listen to the whole spectrum of classical music, that is from the eighth century until today. there is no bad period in music, but there are obviously periods during which major advances are being made. people who stop liking the music after a certain period are simply geriatrics and they do not know what they are missing.as an expert of the visual arts i have seen the same in that field.
i am also convinced that recent recordings are often better than revered old ones. Those old ones were the best during their period and deserve respect, but that does not mean that they are superior to the ones produced nowadays. We have some of the greatest performers in the history of music available today, the best instruments and the best recording techniques.
I do agree that performers like Rostropovich are unique not only because of their skill but because of their close links with the composers of their era. This is a subject that I like a lot, the link between performers and composers and it will be the subject of my next thread on contemporary music.
so all of you who feel the same plse join the crusade. it will be a positive crusade, which is meant to enhance the pleasure of the listening experience


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## Guest

hi jacck,
i think you nailed it. members who are confrontational will trigger negative reactions. You can get many reactions to a boulez thread but most of them will be negative if you do not present the composer in a positive way and point out his best achievements.
TC should be a community of people who appreciate each other because of the diversity of their loves and opinions which can only enrich the members. i kindly request all members to stop posting silly comments stating that they do not like a composer and that he is worthless. its shows a lack of respect for other people's opinions. like you say our members should focus on the positives and stop rehashing the fact that they do not like music after beethoven or stravinsky. wake up TC.


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## Guest

dear enthusiast,
i believe composers below 45 qualify as young composers. you can have access to their music at no cost. nobody asks you to determine who will be the best in the future. it is all about our experience right now, what we like and we would like to share with our follow members (our discoveries). we have moved from a society that collected to a society that experiences.
but i do believe that some young composers already broke through and am surprised they have not been identified by our members. there are also older composers who only recently broke through (r.barrett, d.lang,g.f.haas f.e.)


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## Guest

this thread will close in 12 days.


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## science

I don't know if he's really one of the "best," but Nono is never mentioned as often as I'd like.


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## Guest

dear science, if you analyse the history of a work like la lontananza nostalgica where Gidon Kremer participated a lot or Sofferte onde serene where Pollini was a major inspiration you must realize that Nono was more an intellectual than a major composer; despite all this he has left an important legacy in modern music and will deservedly remain an important figure in the history books; he is just not one of the top composers of that era and is therefore not mentioned that often in our forums; if you compare xenakis with nono and the major influence iannis has on today's composers (dusapin, barrett and so on) then you can see the difference


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## Red Terror

Vagn Holmboe
Vagn Holmboe
Vagn Holmboe


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## Guest

i share your love for holmboe, with a caveat for some weaker works like the first 4 (youth) symphonies; his last symphonies are among the best in the 20 th century and his sq output is fabulous; on top of that his concertos are really outstanding; so we have the complete article with holmboe; but one of his students is even greater and i am talking about norgard; great symphonies, orchestral music, fabulous underrated piano music; his sqs are not as good as holmboe's i have to give you that; the two of them form a mighty tandem in danish contemporary music; try norgard's piano music; you can consult my blogspot if needed


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## Guest

as we are close to the last day of my thread i would like to draw your attention to major composers who have not been mentioned yet; as a European based in France i have a special love for French music and it will show in the list of composers I recommend:
-France: Connesson, Escaich, Greif, Pecou, Beffa, Levinas, Tanguy
-Japan: Nishimura
-Norway: Buene
-Scotland: Hinton
-South Africa: Volans
-US: Currier, Kernis, Marshall, Matheson, E.Sharp, Tsontakis
-Netherlands: L.Andriessen
-England: J.Tavener, J.Pickard, R.Stevenson
-Argentina:Golijov
-Canada:Vivier
-Finland:Fagerlund
I sincerely thank all the participants to the thread and look forward to reading you on my next thread which will be on TC next week.


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## Enthusiast

I never got on with Holmboe's symphonies. Despite listening a lot I took nothing from them ... not even a hint to draw me back later. Maybe it is time to try again with one.


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## Enthusiast

marc bollansee said:


> as we are close to the last day of my thread i would like to draw your attention to major composers who have not been mentioned yet; as a European based in France i have a special love for French music and it will show in the list of composers I recommend:
> -France: Connesson, Escaich, Greif, Pecou, Beffa, Levinas, Tanguy
> -Japan: Nishimura
> -Norway: Buene
> -Scotland: Hinton
> -South Africa: Volans
> -US: Currier, Kernis, Marshall, Matheson, E.Sharp, Tsontakis
> -Netherlands: L.Andriessen
> -England: J.Tavener, J.Pickard, R.Stevenson
> -Argentina:Golijov
> -Canada:Vivier
> -Finland:Fagerlund
> I sincerely thank all the participants to the thread and look forward to reading you on my next thread which will be on TC next week.


Of the ones above that I know - not that many - there are none that I value so highly. Are you recommending investigation of them?

Also, I didn't know threads could be time limited. What happens when it expires? Does it vanish or is it closed to further comments? Why time limit a thread?


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## Art Rock

Enthusiast said:


> Also, I didn't know threads could be time limited. What happens when it expires? Does it vanish or is it closed to further comments? Why time limit a thread?


They cannot. The thread starter could ask the mods/admins to close it (although I don't think there's any reason to do it). Of course the thread starter can decide not to look at the thread again after the "expiry date".


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## Guest

Dear Art Rock, 
Thks for yr comment.
Yes, I have decided to close my thread for reasons that you will read in other posts. The administrators have been informed when i wanted to close. 
I will also be consistent with my future threads and will ask the administrators to close them fairly quickly.
My goal is to revitalize TC and to contribute to the contemporary classical section.
I believe i am the greatest living expert on CC and will try to put my expertise at the service of TC. Take care. 
We kunnen natuurlijk ook nederlands praten. marc


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## Guest

dear enthusiast, 
it is probably a hole in your culture if you do not know stevenson's passacaglia and I mean this in a friendly way; tavener's the protecting veil and the last sleep of the virgin are also great works; kjetil heggelund recommended buene and fagerland, two young scandinavian composers and i was immediately enthusiastic; these are only examples; so yes, my goal is to contribute to contemporary classical to TC and rely on others to help; i also love the composers of the past but their are not my focus because we live in a different era and i believe we have to enjoy the music of our time, the top-quality recording quality of our time and the fabulous performers of our time; callas is irreplaceable, but furtwangler is not; there are enough greta singers and conductors to make us happy;
this is also why my thread will close soon; i will move on to another thread that will be focusing on today's performers of contemporary music; in the meantime try to explore some of the composers I recommended


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## Enthusiast

marc bollansee said:


> dear enthusiast,
> it is probably a hole in your culture if you do not know stevenson's passacaglia and I mean this in a friendly way; tavener's the protecting veil and the last sleep of the virgin are also great works; kjetil heggelund recommended buene and fagerland ........
> 
> ..... this is also why my thread will close soon; i will move on to another thread that will be focusing on today's performers of contemporary music; in the meantime try to explore some of the composers I recommended


I do know those works ... but do not value them very highly! So a hole in my taste, perhaps! I do quite like Fagerland but am not sure he is very great.

Also, I am a little sorry but I do not think of this as "your thread": it is ours! Like other threads it will work best if you do visit it as it progresses (if it does) and contribute further if you can. But I am not sure I chose you as a "teacher" when I participated in it! Except to the extent that I consider everyone here as people who can teach me a thing or two. But, as for exploring the composers you recommended, I know nearly all of them. Some I love greatly. Others I like a lot but not as much as you (Xenakis, Scelsi). And some I really do not like very much at all (Holmboe - I tried again today and got bored again). That's the thing with taste - everyone's is different.


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## Guest

dear mmsbls,
as i stated before i wish to close the thread i initiated "best contemporary composers" tomorrow, because i feel there is not much to be contributed to the thread any more. would you be so kind to take care of this matter.
i will immediately start another thread. as a sidenote i wish to inform you that two esteemed members have been posting comments on a discussion concerning mozart and chopin on the "best contemporary composers". i do not think the thread is the appropriate one.thanking you in advance.marc


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## Guest

dear enthusiast, 
you know stevenson and tavener, so that is not a problem; whether you love their work or not is subjective; fagerland has been suggested by a member and i am grateful for his suggestion, because i like his works and they were a discovery; i never said he is very great and the future might tell us that; his output is also too small to judge
"my" is a concise way to identify the thread i am talking about; there is nothing more to it; the threads belong to our community, because the members participate; i truly respect that
i am not a teacher but a very enthusiastic supporter of the composers i truly like and i can tell you i listen to xenakis since 1964 and that his music has been a moral support in my life, something i could always go back to, which means that there is more to it than just liking the music; i can imagine other members have the same experience with beethoven or bach.
regarding holmboe there are a lot of his works i like (late symphonies, SQS, concertos), but you probably need to find the works that fit for you; maybe there is none; i prefer norgard, but then again you need to listen to many of his works and i consider his piano works to be exceptional; although it is a subjective view it is based on something deeper and that is the accumulation of the listening experience; i believe in the intrinsic value of a work of art (visual or musical), which means that its value does not depend on the subjective appreciation of viewers or listeners, but has in itself outstanding qualities; those are the works i am really interested by


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## mmsbls

marc bollansee said:


> dear mmsbls,
> as i stated before i wish to close the thread i initiated "best contemporary composers" tomorrow, because i feel there is not much to be contributed to the thread any more. would you be so kind to take care of this matter.
> i will immediately start another thread. as a sidenote i wish to inform you that two esteemed members have been posting comments on a discussion concerning mozart and chopin on the "best contemporary composers". i do not think the thread is the appropriate one.thanking you in advance.marc


We generally do not close threads unless there are serious issues with them. This thread has been very interesting with a lot of useful information for TC members. If members wish to contribute further posts, that should only increase the value.


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## Enthusiast

marc bollansee said:


> dear enthusiast,
> you know stevenson and tavener, so that is not a problem; whether you love their work or not is subjective; fagerland has been suggested by a member and i am grateful for his suggestion, because i like his works and they were a discovery; i never said he is very great and the future might tell us that; his output is also too small to judge
> "my" is a concise way to identify the thread i am talking about; there is nothing more to it; the threads belong to our community, because the members participate; i truly respect that
> i am not a teacher but a very enthusiastic supporter of the composers i truly like and i can tell you i listen to xenakis since 1964 and that his music has been a moral support in my life, something i could always go back to, which means that there is more to it than just liking the music; i can imagine other members have the same experience with beethoven or bach.
> regarding holmboe there are a lot of his works i like (late symphonies, SQS, concertos), but you probably need to find the works that fit for you; maybe there is none; i prefer norgard, but then again you need to listen to many of his works and i consider his piano works to be exceptional; although it is a subjective view it is based on something deeper and that is the accumulation of the listening experience; i believe in the intrinsic value of a work of art (visual or musical), which means that its value does not depend on the subjective appreciation of viewers or listeners, but has in itself outstanding qualities; those are the works i am really interested by


Thank you for replying. I'm glad to see that the thread is not closing now as once it has started it has to belong to all. I don't even think that you should consider it closed to you. It is quite possible that we will come up with other ideas and music that you had not thought of.

Anyway, you suggested that it would be "probably a hole in (my) culture" not to know Stevenson's Passacaglia and then offered me advice on on other music in a way that suggested I wouldn't already know them and I found this slightly offensive. I knew the works and, the Fagerland aside, didn't even value them at all highly. That is probably the reason that my tone was a little irritated. I don't think I will ever like Holmboe - I have tried too many times and when I listen now I recognise the voice as the voice of someone who bores me and who I want to avoid. I agree 500% that Norgard is to be preferred. I think I probably agree that art works have intrinsic value.


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## Guest

dear mmsbls, thks for your kind reply.i fully respect tc rules and procedures. take care marc


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## Guest

Contemporary Classical Composers: Index

-Argentina : Golijov 
-Armenia : Mansourian 
-Australia : L.Lim, Sculthorpe, Vine
-Austria : Cerha*, G.F.Haas*, Larcher, Neuwirth 
-Azerbaijan: Ali-Sadeh
-Bulgaria : Tabakova
-Canada : Mozetich, Vivier
-China: Q.Chen , Y.Chen, Lei Liang, Bright Sheng , Tan Dun, Zhou Long
-Czechoslovakia : Kalabis 
-Denmark : Abrahamsen, Gudmundsen-Holmgreen, Norgard*, Ruders 
-England: Ades*, J.Anderson, N.Barrett, R.Barrett, Benjamin, Birtwistle, Cardew , Clyne, Ferneyhough*, Finnissy , Goehr , Grange, Harvey , Hesketh, Leighton, Maxwell-Davies , Pickard , Saunders, R.Simpson, R.Stevenson, J.Tavener, Turnage , Weir 
-Estonia : Eespere, Part, Sumera , Tormis , Tuur 
-Finland : Aho, Fagerlund , Kokkonen, Lindberg, Rautavaara, Saariaho* , Sallinen, Salonen
-France: André, Beffa, Bertrand, Boulez, Canat de Chizy, Cavanna, Connesson , Dalbavie* , Dufourt , Dusapin*, Escaich , Greif , Grisey, Levinas , Manoury* , Mantovani , Messiaen*, Murail* , Pecou , Tanguy
-Georgia : Kancheli* 
-Germany : Bauckholt, Henze, Hölszny, Lachenmann , Pintscher, Rihm, Ruzicka, Spahlinger, Stockhausen*, Widmann* 
-Greece : Aperghis , Xenakis* 
-Hungary: Eötvös, Kurtag , Ligeti *
-Iceland: Ingolfsson , Thorvaldsdottir*
-Israel: Czernowin, Ran
-Italy: Berio, Francesconi, Nono, Scelsi* , Sciarrino
-Japan : Mochizuki, Nishimura , Takemitsu 
-Korea : Chin* 
-Latvia : Vasks 
-Lithuania : Narbutaite
-Netherlands : L.Andriessen, Van der Aa 
-Norway : Buene, Nordheim 
-Poland : Gorecki , Penderecki, Zubel 
-Rumania: Radulescu* 
-Russia: Artyomov, Schnittke*, Tishchenko , Ustvolskaya *
-Scotland: Dillon, Hinton, Knussen , MacMillan
-Serbia: Djordjevic
-Slovakia: Godar* 
-South Africa: Volans
-Spain: E.Mendoza, Parra, Posadas, 
-Switzerland: Furrer , Huber
-Sweden: Hillborg, Pettersson*, Skog, Tarrodi 
-Ukraine: Silvestrov
-United States: J.Adams , J.L.Adams* , Auerbach , Bates, Cage, Carter , Corigliano , G.Crumb, Currier, J.Eastman, Eckardt , Fairouz , Feldman, R.Gibson, Glass, Harrison, Hersch, Higdon, Kernis, La Monte Young*, D.Lang, Liebermann, I.Marshall , Matheson, Missy Mazzoli , Monk , Muhly, Oliveros, Perich, Persichetti, Reich*, Reynolds, Riley, Rzewski, Schwantner, L.Schwendinger, Sharp, Taaffe-Zwilich, A.R.Thomas, Torke, Tower*, Tsontakis, Wolfe*
This is a list of my favourite contemporary composers. The ones i am really crazy about get a star. 
Hopefully this list will give new life to this thread which I believe is vitally important for the discussion about contemporary music.
The thread has had great inputs from our members and I have been encouraged by our moderators to continue it. 
I am really looking forward to your responses. I know I have too much ego and believe I am the most knowledgeable about CCM. 
Plse prove me wrong.


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## joen_cph

I'll supplement regarding a few countries (there are further composers of course, but these are among the most important): 

Denmark: 
Vagn Holmboe, Bent Sørensen, Simon Steen-Andersen, Ib Nørholm, Axel Borup-Jørgensen, Niels Viggo Bentzon, Herman D.Koppel, Søren Niels Eichberg, Else Marie Pade, Povl Rovsing Olsen, Gunnar Berg, Sunleif Rasmussen, Gunner Møller Pedersen.

Norway, since Valen:
Finn Mortensen, Harald Sæverud, Geir Tveitt, Halvor Haug, Bjarne Brustad, Ketil Hvoslef, Antonio Bibalo

Czechoslovakia:
Lubos Fiser, Marek Kopelent, Jan Klusak, Vladimir Valek, Jan Novak, Petr Eben, Oldrich Flosman, Jindrich Feld, Jan Hanus.

Russia:
Sofia Gubaidulina, Edison Denisov, Georgy Dorokhov, Sergei Slonimsky, Boris Tchaikovsky, Elena Firsova, Dmitri Smirnov, Mikhail Nosyrev, Yuri Levitin, Viktor Ekimovsky, Andrei Volkonsky, (Tikhon Khrennikov).

Georgia:
Felix Glonti, Otar Taktakishvili, Vaja Azarashvili, Tsulkan Tsintsadze, Aleksandre Machavariani, Andria Balanchivadze.

Armenia:
Karen Khachaturian.


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## Guest

plse find a new updated list of contemporary composers:
Contemporary Classical Composers: Index

-Argentina : Golijov 
-Armenia : Mansourian 
-Australia : L.Lim*, Sculthorpe, Vine
-Austria : Cerha*, G.F.Haas*, Larcher, Mitterer, Neuwirth 
-Azerbaijan: Ali-Sadeh
-Bulgaria : Tabakova
-Canada : Mozetich, Vivier
-China: Q.Chen, Y.Chen, Lei Liang, Bright Sheng, Tan Dun, Zhou Long
-Croatia: M.Ivicevic
-Czechoslovakia : Kalabis 
-Denmark : Abrahamsen, Gudmundsen-Holmgreen, Norgard*, Ruders 
-England: Ades*, J.Anderson, N.Barrett, R.Barrett, Benjamin, Birtwistle*, Cardew , Clyne, Ferneyhough*, Finnissy *, Goehr , Grange, Harvey , Hesketh, Leighton, Maxwell-Davies, Pickard, Saunders*, R.Simpson, R.Stevenson, J.Tavener, Turnage, Weir 
-Estonia : Eespere, Part, Sumera*, Tormis, Tuur 
-Finland : Aho, Fagerlund , Kokkonen, Lindberg*, Rautavaara*, Saariaho* , Sallinen, Salonen
-France: André, Beffa, Bertrand, Boulez*, Canat de Chizy, Cavanna, Connesson, Dalbavie*, Dufourt, Dusapin*, Escaich, Greif , Grisey, Levinas , Manoury*, Mantovani, Messiaen, Murail*, Pecou , Tanguy
-Georgia : Kancheli* 
-Germany : Bauckholt*, Henze, Hölszny, Lachenmann, Mundry*, Pintscher, Rihm*, Ruzicka*, Spahlinger, Stockhausen*, Widmann* 
-Greece : Aperghis, Xenakis* 
-Hungary: Eötvös, Kurtag , Ligeti *
-Iceland: Guonadottir, Ingolfsson, Jonsdottir, Thorvaldsdottir*
-Israel: Czernowin, Ran
-Italy: Berio*, Francesconi, Nono*, Scelsi* , Sciarrino
-Japan : Mochizuki, Nishimura , Takemitsu* 
-Korea : Chin* 
-Latvia : Vasks 
-Lithuania : Narbutaite
-Mexico : Paredes
-Netherlands : L.Andriessen, Van der Aa 
-Norway : Buene, Nordheim 
-Poland : Gorecki, Penderecki*, Zubel* 
-Rumania: Radulescu* 
-Russia: Artyomov, Gubaidulina*, Khorkova, Raskatov, Schnittke*, Tishchenko , Ustvolskaya *
-Scotland: Dillon, Hinton, Knussen, MacMillan*
-Serbia: Djordjevic
-Slovakia: Godar* 
-South Africa: Volans
-Spain: E.Mendoza, Parra, Posadas*, 
-Switzerland: Furrer, Huber
-Sweden: Hillborg*, Pettersson*, Skog, Tarrodi 
-Ukraine: Desyatnikov, Silvestrov
-United States: J.Adams , J.L.Adams* , Auerbach , Bates, Cage*, Carter* , Corigliano , G.Crumb, Currier, J.Eastman, Eckardt , Fairouz* , Feldman*, R.Gibson, Glass, Harrison, Hersch, Higdon*, T.Johnson, Kernis, La Monte Young*, D.Lang, Liebermann, I.Marshall , Matheson, Missy Mazzoli , Monk , Muhly, Oliveros, Perich, Persichetti, Reich*, Reynolds, Riley*, Rzewski, Schwantner, L.Schwendinger, Sharp, Taaffe-Zwilich, A.R.Thomas, Torke, Tower*, Tsontakis, Wolfe*


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## Art Rock

Just dotting the i's and crossing the t's: the family name of Peter Maxwell Davies (no hyphen) is Davies. A mistake I've made myself for several decades.


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## Enthusiast

Why England and not Britain? I think all your names under England are actually English (I may be wrong) but to include Scottish composers you could add MacMillan (not a composer I like particularly myself) and Thea Musgrave and also Knussen, who seems not to have identified as Scottish but was born in Glasgow. Similarly, for Wales, Alun Hoddinott.

I am interested in your starred composers - some surprises, I thought, as well as some I wholeheartedly agree with - and wonder, as your endeavour seems to aim towards the definitive, whether there is some method we can "depersonalise" that aspect without leading to an overly dumbed down or populist list.


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## Jacck

Takashi Yoshimatsu - possibly my favorite living composer


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## Guest

hello enthusiast,
i think composers from different origins have different sources of inspiration, different educations and so on. That is why i chose to separate Scotland from England for example. 
the thread is a process whereby we all learn from each other and I have included some composers proposed by members after having listened to their works and enjoyed them. jacck has proposed yoshimatsu and i will listen to all his works and possibly include him. this is the beauty of tc. i am certainly not the final judge and i invite other members to come up with their own lists and comments. the real purpose is not the list in itself but the composers you can discover and enjoy thanks to it.
i also believe more members should briefly give some comments about the reasons why they like some composers. shirime has done it upon my request. all of us are different and tend to prefer specific characteristics. for myself i am especially drawn to sound and soundscapes this is also why i like composers like scelsi, xenakis, haas, dusapin, l.lim; others will like less chaos and strange sounds; 
anyway i try to represent various musical directions in my list: try listening to vladimir godar; his music is extremely beautiful, but very difficult to get i admit; 
the stars i give are meant to encourage members to give these composers a listen, not to define a ranking of any sort. best marc


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## Enthusiast

marc bollansee said:


> hello enthusiast,
> i think composers from different origins have different sources of inspiration, different educations and so on. That is why i chose to separate Scotland from England for example.


Thanks, marc. It is not a big issue, I guess, but England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all parts of the same country. Many countries have regions and areas (and ethnic groups) with different cultural traditions. Gubaidulina, for example, is a Tartar. I fear that going against recognised national borders is a political statement rather than a cultural one. Or where do you stop?


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Some successful Norwegians in addition to the ones you mention are:
Nils Henrik Asheim
Ola Gjeilo
Åse Hedstrøm
Henrik Hellstenius
Ståle Kleiberg
Bjørn Kruse
Gisle Kverndokk
Ørjan Matre
Knut Nystedt
Cecilie Ore
John Persen
Maja Ratkje
Asbjørn Schaathun
Lasse Thoresen
Rolf Wallin
...
I'm not very familiar with these composers...


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## Hiawatha

Lou Harrison - (Magnificent) 3rd Symphony






This is the one which in some ways builds from Cowell in that it is the US looking beyond itself.

As such it is far from the naval gazing of the Diamonds etc (not that insularity is a terrible thing).

I will post two (of several) other great post war American symphonies shortly.


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## Hiawatha

Roy Harris - Symphony 11 - because it so wonderfully "late 1960s". Not only do you hear echoes of Glass etc in what was soon to become a more commercial and developed minimalism but there is everything here in the introduction from a wry take on the Beatles in the striking chord to the pre-empting of 70s rock onwards towards "Walking in Memphis". The odd thing is that it is still unequivocally classical while almost eerily representing its era both culturally and socially:






Samuel Jones - Symphony 3, "Palo Duro Canyon" - THE great post war symphony if you are looking to find a genuine successor to Copland and yet hardly well-known. So I'm spreading the word. It does not especially look beyond US boundaries but the expansiveness of the country itself is palpable, arid but not at all dry. Eventually, it will be seen as a post-war masterpiece:


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## Kjetil Heggelund

I forgot Marcus Paus! He used to be famous for his silly-fast guitarplaying, but is now one of the most performed Norwegian composers.


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## Guest

My last post in the Favourite Contemporary Film Composers might be worth checking out. Max Richter has a reputation that goes beyond soundtrack work.

https://www.talkclassical.com/24211-favorite-contemporary-film-composer-7.html#post1610654


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## Hiawatha

A couple of composers with considerable potential for modern commercial appeal:

Vladimir Godar:

Magnificat (Extract)






Dobrinka Tabakova:

Insight


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## Guest

thank you to:arpeggio, kjetil, shirime, art rock, red terror, enthusiast, portamento, PeterFromLa, sonance, allerius, science; i enjoyed sharing stuff with you but have decided to delete my account with tc; take care marc


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## Enthusiast

A lot of contemporary music fans leave after a while. You could leave your account live and just stay away. That way if you changed your mind you could just start to post again. Why block yourself from posting if you ever want to?


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## Guest

it is a matter of principle; i do not belong to this group as a whole and will never post again; that is why i block myself, like you say; 
i will never look at tc any more; i would welcome a new more interesting site; master zen is going away from the public


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## Enthusiast

Do any of us belong? We sometimes find kindred spirits and sometimes antagonists. As with any community. But it is true there are only a few who care about the contemporary. Still, there are a few! If your principle is so firm then you have no need to close your account. The only reason to do so might be a fear of changing your mind. But freedom to change our minds is a good thing IMO. Anyway, good luck if you go.


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## Simon Moon

marc bollansee said:


> it is a matter of principle; i do not belong to this group as a whole and will never post again; that is why i block myself, like you say;
> i will never look at tc any more; i would welcome a new more interesting site; master zen is going away from the public


This is an unfortunate loss to TC.

I listen almost exclusively, to music composed after 1940, and love contemporary music. So, it is disappointing that TC will lose another fan of contemporary music.

TC can be a bit frustrating and insulting (if one internalizes some of the remarks by the anti-contemporary members) for us contemporary classical fans, but I have never felt compelled to leave.

There are enough enlightened members to keep me here. You mentioned most of them in your post above.

I usually just laugh at most of the anti-contemporary comments (hell, sometimes they can be creative), and continue on.


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## mmsbls

I don't think people should assume that marc bollansee has left due to anti-modern bias at TC.


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## Kjetil Heggelund

Norwegian composer Alfred Janson (1937-2019) passed away night to today. He was one of our most famous and performed composers.


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## Simon Moon

Tow recent discovery of mine.

Austrian composer, Thomas Larcher, born 1963.

South African born, resident of Ireland, Kevin Volans, born 1949. 

I've only touched on their recordings, but what I've heard so far is pretty impressive.


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## Enthusiast

mmsbls said:


> I don't think people should assume that marc bollansee has left due to anti-modern bias at TC.


Indeed not. But as a fan of the modern and contemporary he was an endangered species ..


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## PeterFromLA

I learned long ago to stay away from threads where people troll the very idea of contemporary music. I have no time for those encounters. It makes my visits to this site far more enjoyable.


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## SanAntone

*Arlene Sierra*

Sierra studied at Oberlin College Conservatory of Music, Yale University School of Music and the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, receiving a DMA in 1999; her principal teachers were Martin Bresnick, Michael Daugherty and Jacob Druckman. A composition fellow at the Britten-Pears School (Aldeburgh Festival) in 2000 and Tanglewood in 2001, teachers included Louis Andriessen, Magnus Lindberg, and Colin Matthews. She also worked with Judith Weir at the Dartington International Summer School in 1999, Paul-Heinz Dittrich in Berlin in 1997-8, and Betsy Jolas at The American Conservatory of Fontainebleau Schools in 1993.

Sierra's compositions are rooted in early training in classical piano and in electronic music at the Oberlin Conservatory of Music.

Many of Sierra's mature works have their origins in military strategy and game theory, with literary sources including Vitruvius and Sun Tzu, notably: _Ballistae_ (2000) for large ensemble and _Surrounded Ground_ (2008) for sextet, as well as _Art of War_ (2010), a concerto for piano and orchestra.

Sierra is also inspired by bird song, insect calls, and sounds and processes from the natural world including _Butterflies Remember a Mountain_ (2013), a piano trio which was inspired by a peculiar detour in the annual mass migration of monarch butterflies. This trio was the starting point for her _Nature Symphony_ (2017) commissioned by the BBC Philharmonic and BBC Radio 3. Other works that employ natural sounds and processes include _Cicada Shell_ (2006) for ensemble, _Birds and Insects_, Books 1 and 2 (2007, 2015) for piano solo, _Insects in Amber_ (2010) for string quartet, and _Urban Birds_ (2014) for three pianos with percussion and electronics.

These two interests - nature and military strategy - are both evident in her 2009 orchestral work _Game of Attrition_ which takes its structure from processes described by Charles Darwin in The Origin of Species.

Sierra has also demonstrated an interest in dramatic and stage works centered on women protagonists, in scenarios ranging from Faust in the opera _Faustine_ to human trafficking in the collaborative chamber opera _Cuatro Corridos_. Since 2012, she has been working on a series of new scores to films by Maya Deren, including _Meditation on Violence_ and _Ritual in Transfigured Time_.


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## composingmusic

Seconding Arlene Sierra! And she's also married to Kenneth Hesketh, another very fine composer. Here's a link to his recent piano concerto, _Uncoiling the River:_


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## SanAntone

Five names from my favorite composers list:

*Meredith Monk* (1942- )






*Krzysztof Meyer *(1943- )






*Laurie Anderson *(1947- )






*Pascal Dusapin* (1955- )






*Osvaldo Golijov* (1960- )


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## Opisthokont

Hmm... after the second world war is so broad. If I'm going by compositional skill I would have to say ernst krenek but of course he wrote before and after ww2. 

If we restrict to composers born after ww2 its more interesting, that also rules out other "obvious" choices like johnston, wuorinen or henze (and ellington).

Kaija saariaho certainly has to be a contender no matter what, as does john adams, andriessen and ferneyhough.. hmm. Perhaps controversially I also think caroline shaw and unsuk chin belong there. Zikovic and Neuwirth have made some really interesting works imo. It's hard to judge who will stand the test of time.


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## justekaia

I have the impression that you have not read this thread very thoroughly as nearly all the composers you mention have been named. On top of that you want to rule out wuorinen, one of the few top oldies who was not mentioned and therefore I invite you and our members to listen to two masterpieces by wuorinen that you will find in the videne is very recent. By the way i do not think a classical composer with the name of Zikovic exists and i do not believe Ellington is a classical composer. Cheers


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## joen_cph

The poster you mention probably just presented his own, general opinions. Certainly some of his favourites. Happens all the time.

Speaking of details, the recently deceased Wuorinen has been mentioned here (I saw him in post #24, for example).

Ellington did write a ballet, The River, for orchestra; and 3 'Sacred Concerts', that some have called oratorio-like. But not mainly a classical composer, obviously.

'Zikovic' must be Nebojsa Zivkovic.


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## justekaia

dear Joen, the only point i wanted to make is that members must spell the name of the composers correctly, otherwise it is no use mentioning them at all; post 24 mentions charles wourinen ; i do not know that composer; zikovic is even a tougher case; thks for clarifying anyway


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## justekaia

Extraordinary piece by Russian composer Marina Khorkova (1981) who conceived her new multiphonic keyboard on which she plays 3 Miniatures.


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## justekaia

Khorkova 3 Miniatures for multiphonic keyboard. Sorry for double posting due to non-availability being announced initially.


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## mikeh375

Fascinating justekaia but I can't help thinking that equal results or better can be done entirely in a computer. Still, a remarkable hands on piece of kit resulting in a sound design approach with spectacle.


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## justekaia

A small treat for your Sunday evening, the georgeous Hymn II by the Russian Nikolai Korndorf (1947-2001). Unfortunately we lost this superb composer too early to a heart disease. The link with nature and the cosmos is obvious like in Mahler's music but nearly a century later (1987).Lazarev directs the BBC SO.


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## ansfelden

Arvo Pärt, there is none higher.


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## SanAntone

ansfelden said:


> Arvo Pärt, there is none higher.


Of course "higher" and "lower" are relative concepts judged subjectively by individual listeners. I can think of other composers I rank higher than Arvo Pärt, although I do consider him a major contemporary composer. However, his music is somewhat one dimensional IMO.


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## joen_cph

There is a marked difference between some of the early Pärt (the aggressive and parodical _Symphony no.1_ especially) and the later, more ~meditative Pärt.


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## SanAntone

joen_cph said:


> There is a marked difference between some of the early Pärt (the aggressive and parodical _Symphony no.1_ especially) and the later, more ~meditative Pärt.


Agreed. However, the works which established Part's reputation were the latter "new spiritualism" not the early works, which he all but disavowed.


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## HenryPenfold

ansfelden said:


> Arvo Pärt, there is none higher.


Wouldn't go that far, but I certainly rate his early stuff and some of the later stuff is quite nice.


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## Nawdry

marc bollansee said:


> who are the best contemporary composers after the second world war


With the assumption this includes composers who might have been composing before WW2 but continued afterwards ... some of my own major top choices (not in any particular order) would include:

Hindemith
Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Shostakovich
Honegger
Rozsa
Barber
Piston
Rorem
Mennin
Cowell
Diamond
Vaughn Williams
Martinu
Ginastera
Bloch
Zyman


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## justekaia

Mike your arguments are solid and more and more contemporary classical music is enhanced with electronics and computers. You could set up software programmes that compose an infinite variety of music and then choose the one you like best. I know some world class visual artists who work that way already.However in my opinion this will lead to an infinity of similar music.I prefer a genius like Khorkova who has spent years perfecting her unique instrument, obviously loves it and adds the irreplaceable human touch. Moreover I think she will do better than a computer in live performances which are the most sublime moments to appreciate music.


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## mikeh375

justekaia said:


> Mike your arguments are solid and more and more contemporary classical music is enhanced with electronics and computers. You could set up software programmes that compose an infinite variety of music and then choose the one you like best. I know some world class visual artists who work that way already.However in my opinion this will lead to an infinity of similar music.I prefer a genius like Khorkova who has spent years perfecting her unique instrument, obviously loves it and adds the irreplaceable human touch. Moreover I think she will do better than a computer in live performances which are the most sublime moments to appreciate music.


As a musician myself, I certainly appreciate the live acoustic Khorkova offers over a purely electronic medium. I agree with your assessment that AI approaches and common DAW approaches are simply flooding an already saturated composing market with mediocrity, especially in the wrong manipulative hands. 
So far as music with a serious, lofty expressive intent is concerned, the computer and associated technologies (especially in reproduction), has had and still does have, an unlimited potential for exploring new sonics imv. Used in the best artistic ways possible, digital manipulation will surely have a major bearing on the future of music.

I hope to see the future settle on a hybrid of live performance with technology given that the technologocal genie is out of the bag (and capable of much upheaval for musicians), rather than further decline in the performance/musician aspect.


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## justekaia

Rare Gravity (2014) is an orchestral work by the Japanese Dai Fujikura. The Nagoya PO is conducted by Antoni Wit.The piece develops like a foetus in a mother's womb, floating peacefully in liquid. The composer alternates slow passages dominated by woodwinds with faster moments like the drums in the final flourish which seems to indicate the kicking movements of the foetus that wants out.


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## justekaia

The Icelandic prodigy Anna Thorvaldsdottir (1977) grabs our attention and tickles our curiosity with her best orchestral work "Aeriality" (2011) played by the Icelandic SO conducted by Ilan Volkov.
A broad sound tapestry gives us the impression of gliding through the air and elicits feelings of freedom, unease and even fear.
The title is a pun wherein reality refers to the ground and aerial to the untouchable sky.


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## justekaia

Next to some English heavyweights like Ades, Ferneyhough or Birtwistle, the versatile composer Gavin Bryars (1943) goes his own way and regularly surprises us with his unusual compositions. The Double-Bass Concerto "Farewell to St Petersburg" (2002) is written for his favourite instrument and the light orchestration gives it plenty of moments to shine even during some rare cadenza sequences. Inspired by his work with Russian bass voices on one of his operas, Bryars has borrowed the words from some songs of Glinka's cycle "Farewell to St Petersburg" and the bass choir manages some magical contrasting moments.


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## justekaia

The English composer Mark-Anthony Turnage (1960) completed Speranza in 2012 and please note there are four parts. The London SO is conducted by Daniel Harding.Few musical pieces reflect the spirit of our troubled times as well as Speranza.Initially Turnage wanted to write about poets and writers who committed suicide at a young age, but he turned the piece around and gave us an uplifting emotional narrative full of jazzy, lyrical, loud and rhythmic music.
Speranza means hope in Italian and the titles of the four parts translate hope in Arabic, German, Irish and Jewish. These are references to the Palestinian conflict, the second world war, the Irish conflict and a surprising soothing Jewish end that is the symbol of hope. Horror is suggested in the early parts.It is followed by some comfort in the third section, while the last part dissipates the feelings of panick by featuring a Jewish melody that blossoms into a majestic surge.
Musically this is translated into sombre moments (with the surprising use of the Armenian duduk) which give way to the light via some of Turnage's favourite instruments: the flugelhorn, the trumpet and piccolo trumpets.
The combination of fascinating sounds and the underlying dramatic content elevates this piece to the level of the best orchestral works of this century.


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## mikeh375

Keeping with British talent, here's some nouvo tonality from David Matthews, one of the UK's most prolific symphonists. I love this guys work and he has imv succeeded in keeping the symphonic form still relevant today across his many diverse symphonic approaches. I think of him as an heir to Tippet and perhaps even Shostakovitch. He was also an assistant to Britten in the 1960's. Here is his lyrical 8th Symphony from 2014 in all its gravitational glory.....


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## Torkelburger

mikeh375 said:


> Keeping with British talent, here's some nouvo tonality from David Matthews, one of the UK's most prolific symphonists. I love this guys work and he has imv succeeded in keeping the symphonic form still relevant today across his many diverse symphonic approaches. I think of him as an heir to Tippet and perhaps even Shostakovitch. He was also an assistant to Britten in the 1960's. Here is his lyrical 8th Symphony from 2014 in all its gravitational glory.....


I agree, this guy is terrific. He's the brother of notable composer Colin, yes? Another of my favorites.


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## mikeh375

Torkelburger said:


> I agree, this guy is terrific. He's the brother of notable composer Colin, yes? Another of my favorites.


TB I don't know any C .Matthews yet, although his name is not unfamiliar (yes, they are siblings). There's just too much to listen to isn't there? It's even harder for we composers who also have to devote much time searching for our own sparks. I'll put him on the 'composers deserving a listen' list.

For the thread, here's a composer I had the pleasure of working with in his capacity as one of the UK's finest pianists along with his brilliant cellist brother.


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## justekaia

The Canadian composer of Ukrainian descent Marc Sabat (1965) researches and teaches just intonation. His stunning piece "The luminiferous Aether" (2018) is played by the BBC Scottish SO directed by Ilan Volkov.


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## mikeh375

^^^ I found this to be quite descriptive of something that doesn't exist. Definitely a lights down, headphones on, eyes closed kind of piece. Maxwell would've agreed that the speed of light is certainly slowed down in this musical haze.

Here's more of the layered and glacial way of composing, written for a more intimate sound..


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## arpeggio

I attended a concert of the Marine Chamber Orchestra yesterday and they performed two works by living composers.

Roberto Sierra's _A Joyous Overture_

World premiere of the _Concerto for Clarinet_ written by American composer Jacob Bancks specifically for the Marine Band's guest soloist and principal clarinetist of the Philadelphia Orchestra, Ricardo Morales.


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## justekaia

mikeh375 said:


> ^^^ I found this to be quite descriptive of something that doesn't exist. Definitely a lights down, headphones on, eyes closed kind of piece. Maxwell would've agreed that the speed of light is certainly slowed down in this musical haze.
> 
> Here's more of the layered and glacial way of composing, written for a more intimate sound..


I love this piece called Orient Point by the great Canadian composer Linda Catlin Smith.


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## justekaia

Exhilarating execution of Bryce Dessner's (born 1976) violin concerto (2021) by virtuoso soloist Pekka Kuusisto with the Frankfurt Radio SO conducted by the playful and musical Ariane Matiakh.
The music rocks, the first movement combines Kuusisto's country-inflected fiddling with the offbeat staccato chords of the orchestra. An expressive, lyrical cadenza ends the fist movement leading into a short bridging second movement which give's the orchestra's string players the opportunity to play separate lines. The last movement features flashy playing by the soloist among the tricky rhythms and syncopations of the orchestra.Dessner continues to write incredibly compelling music. Other recommended works are Aheym and Tenebre both for SQ.


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## justekaia

The English composer Anna Clyne (1980) composed "Within her Arms" in 2009.
A fragile elegy for 15 strings of the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra reminds us of English Renaissance masterpieces.
The music alternates between static moments of utter beauty and more violent violin outcries over double bass drones.
It is a tribute to the composer's mother and clearly an effort to find solace and peace. The exquisite writing for strings can also be experienced as a contemporary equivalent of Barber's Adagio.


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## justekaia

The Finnish composer Sebastian Fagerlund (1972) composed a cello concerto, called Nomade (2018), in the mould of Carter's masterpiece. The soloist is Nicolas Altstaedt who is joined by the Finnish Radio SO led by Hannu Lintu.
There are six movements and two mysterious interludes.
Its title alludes to a soul's road towards inner accomplishment which manifests itself in elusive, captivating melodic lines and spellbinding orchestral colour.
Six splendid thundering bars start it off to make way for the soloist and a dialogue between cello and orchestra. The first movement is a gradual evolution of evaporating mists into solid forms. It is followed by a rhythmic vehement second movement which is a wonderful sonic adventure.
After a short interlude, the third movement is a gorgeously animated piece followed by the long fourth movement which is the mystical core of the concerto, a kind of agitated sarabande marked lento contemplativo.
Another interlude leads to the fifth movement in which a solo cadenza is followed by a closing for full ensemble.
The real tour-de-force takes place in the sixth movement that sets off with action-packed music between soloist and orchestra. A riveting tempo animates the closing and brings the music full circle as the solo line gradually hovers back into the initial mist.
The concerto is another feather in the composer's cap as he now has 6 major concertante works: violin, clarinet, bassoon, guitar and 2 cello concertos.


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## mikeh375

^^ loving the Fagerlund Justekaia. I'm a big fan of cello concertos and this slotted right in for me. I especially enjoyed the second mvt's animation and virtuosity. As I'm typing, I'm listening to the third mvt which is equally as exciting and inventive, but don't have time to listen to the rest. I've added the complete work to my playlist and will finish it off later. Thnx.

Here's another vc conc. I like a lot...


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## justekaia

Hi Mike, 
Yes, great piece by Salonen. I have the version by Yo-Yo Ma, but am listening to Altstaedt right now. Keep posting, I have the feeling we will become a duo that members will learn to appreciate.


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## justekaia

The Italian composer Francesca Verunelli (1979) believes in the connection between timbre and harmonics and pushes the envelope to the extreme in her best piece up to now, called Tune and Retune. The Luxemburg PO is led by Baldur Brönnimann.


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## SanAntone

*Alexandra du Bois* (1981)






*Katherine Balch* (1991)






*Chaya Czernowin* (1957)






*Luca Francesconi* (1956)






*Enno Poppe* (1969)






*Rebecca Saunders* (1967)


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## justekaia

Justekaia does not understand San Antone's post. I totally respect his enthusiasm and dedication for contemporary. In this instance (Verunelli) I just single out a promising composer and her outstanding work. That should be our motto that we share with our members what we believe are the best works composed today. Every single work that I post is special, outstanding in my opinion. I do not post Grinblat's last video.
But i commit to continue to support San Antone's thread on orchestral contemporary works that is clearly a major contribution to the appreciation of contemporary music.


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> Justekaia does not understand San Antone's post. I totally respect his enthusiasm and dedication for contemporary. In this instance (Verunelli) I just single out a promising composer and her outstanding work. That should be our motto that we share with our members what we believe are the best works composed today. Every single work that I post is special, outstanding in my opinion. I do not post Grinblat's last video.
> But i commit to continue to support San Antone's thread on orchestral contemporary works that is clearly a major contribution to the appreciation of contemporary music.


My post had nothing to do with your post that appeared just ahead of it. I was surprised you took offense with my post. The composers I posted are all ones I admire and thought fit the nature of this thread.

But it appears you don't approve of my sources.


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## composingmusic

mikeh375 said:


> ^^ loving the Fagerlund Justekaia. I'm a big fan of cello concertos and this slotted right in for me. I especially enjoyed the second mvt's animation and virtuosity. As I'm typing, I'm listening to the third mvt which is equally as exciting and inventive, but don't have time to listen to the rest. I've added the complete work to my playlist and will finish it off later. Thnx.
> 
> Here's another vc conc. I like a lot...


Seconding the Fagerlund and Salonen concertos. I listened to both recently. Another few worth listening to:

*Aulis Sallinen's* (1935) cello concerto: 
First movement: 



Second movement: 




and *Unsuk Chin's* (1961) cello concerto:


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## justekaia

Your edited post with the composers is ok. I do not disapprove of your sources.
For your info i try to refrain from posting pieces that you have posted before (du bois), but i think all the composers and pieces do fit in with the thread like you say. As a matter of fact i am a great fan of all these composers


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> Your edited post with the composers is ok. I do not disapprove of your sources.
> For your info i try to refrain from posting pieces that you have posted before (du bois), but i think all the composers and pieces do fit in with the thread like you say. As a matter of fact i am a great fan of all these composers


I edited out the first sentence which did not refer to this thread, but a different thread, feeling it might have been the distraction.


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## SanAntone

*justekaia*, are you the same member who started this thread *marc bollansee* but then deleted his account?


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## justekaia

Lisa Batiashvili is the intense soloist in the Swedish composer Andreas Hillborg's (1954) second violin concerto (2016). Oramo leads the Stockholm PO in this colourful concerto which is full of variety and alternates serene and wild moments including eastern dances. Near the start you can enjoy reminiscences of Bach's Sarabande, while at the end you are treated to some airs of an organ prelude by Bach. 
As the Canadian violinist James Ehnes stated this a very technical concerto which requires unorthodox hand positions from the soloist. It also requires enormous delicacy to control the purity of the pitch and control of the bow. Despite its tricky nature the concerto has proven to be very popular.


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## justekaia

san antone, i am not of the same gender as the initiator of this thread, which answers your question


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## justekaia

Le Encantadas (2015) for six ensemble groups and electronics by the Austrian leading composer Olga Neuwirth (2015). Amazing, enchanting sounds from the Ensemble Intercontemporain conducted by maestro Matthias Pintscher.A major work in the contemporary repertoire.


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> san antone, i am not of the same gender as the initiator of this thread, which answers your question


I wondered only because you seem to have act as if you own the thread.


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## justekaia

SanAntone said:


> I wondered only because you seem to have act as if you own the thread.


You are certainly aware that members do not own threads. I try to support all contemporary threads, including yours which are outstanding and made me discover a couple of interesting American composers. As a European I do not have real access to the American scene. Luckily there are many composers in Berlin, where I live so I can interact with composers from all over the world.
Like you I focus on contemporary, medieval and Renaissance, especially Spanish Renaissance. I will start some new threads to make contemporary even more familiar to our members.


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> You are certainly aware that members do not own threads. I try to support all contemporary threads, including yours which are outstanding and made me discover a couple of interesting American composers. As a European I do not have real access to the American scene. Luckily there are many composers in Berlin, where I live so I can interact with composers from all over the world.
> Like you I focus on contemporary, medieval and Renaissance, especially Spanish Renaissance. I will start some new threads to make contemporary even more familiar to our members.


Generally the person who begins a thread (OP) acts as curator of it, i.e. offering guidelines as to its purpose and the kind of posts that are welcome and those which are not. Also the OP is the only member who can request a thread be closed. So OPs have a different status regarding threads than other TC members.

Your (unwarranted, IMO) criticisms of my post and your behavior in this thread struck me as someone who took a proprietary interest in it, more than as just another contributor.

But since you have now clarified that you were not the OP I will ignore your posts other than the ones that are about composers and their works.


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## justekaia

SanAntone said:


> Generally the person who begins a thread (OP) acts as curator of it, i.e. offering guidelines as to its purpose and the kind of posts that are welcome and those which are not. Also the OP is the only member who can request a thread be closed. So OPs have a different status regarding threads than other TC members.
> 
> Your (unwarranted, IMO) criticisms of my post and your behavior in this thread struck me as someone who took a proprietary interest in it, more than as just another contributor.
> 
> But since you have now clarified that you were not the OP I will ignore your posts other than the ones that are about composers and their works.


-You state that an OP is a curator of a thread. Is this your opinion or is this confirmed by TC.
-You also stated that only a member can request a thread to be closed. Is this confirmed by TC.
I have the intention to start several new threads but would like the administrators to confirm the rules, as I have the impression they are not the same for all the members.


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## justekaia

The Spanish Hector Parra's (1976) intriguing piece for ensemble and orchestra, called Inscape(2018) is interpreted by the Ensemble Intercontemporain and the Orchestre National de Lille directed by Alexander Bloch.


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> -You state that an OP is a curator of a thread. Is this your opinion or is this confirmed by TC.
> -You also stated that only a member can request a thread to be closed. Is this confirmed by TC.
> I have the intention to start several new threads but would like the administrators to confirm the rules, as I have the impression they are not the same for all the members.


It is not a "rule" but the OP as the creator of a thread describes its purpose and often the kind of posts that are welcome or unwelcome (this is usually done in the first post). Of course the OP's guidelines can be ignored, but I would consider that rude, just as I consider it rude for any member other than the OP to assume that role.

But it is a fact that the OP is the only TC member who can _request_ that a thread be closed. However, the decision is at the discretion of the moderators.

You can find the TC Guidelines and FAQ *here*.


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## justekaia

The Australian Brett Dean's (1961) violin concerto " The lost Art of Letter Writing" (2007) is interpreted by Frank Peter Zimmermann accompanied by the Sydney SO conducted by Jonathan Nott. Plse note there are four movements.
Each movement takes its cue from a letter: The Music is impassioned in Brahms's love letter to Clara, while it is in awe of nature in Van Gogh's letter to a fellow artist. A grieving feeling is felt in Hugo Wolf's letter to his brother in law and in the last movement which is full of energy, Ned Kelly the famous Australian outlaw expresses protest against his sentence. The work is also a reference to our society in which digital communication has become omni-present.


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## neoshredder

Best tonal Composer in the last 5 to 10 years?


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## justekaia

Excellent piano concerto called Mind (2000) from Finnish composer Jukka Tiensuu. Ralph Van Raat is the accomplished solist accompanied by the Netherlands Radio PO directed by Kofman.


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## VoiceFromTheEther

neoshredder said:


> Best tonal Composer in the last 5 to 10 years?


in the last 5 or 10, as in the last 50, still John Williams. Check out his Violin Concerto No. 2, the 2012 _Lincoln_, and the newest Star Wars trilogy (VII, VIII, IX).


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## Mandryka

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Quatuor-Diotima-Poppe-Gervasoni-Pesson/dp/B09HR3WYYS

The new Diotima CD has some rather nice Poppe.


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## justekaia

Hungarian Peter Eötvös (1944) is going back to basics with his second violin concerto Do-Re-Mi (2012) in which he puts sounds above or next to each other. There are many exciting moments, including the duo between violin and viola. Patricia Kopatchinskaja is exhilarating and well supported by the SWR SO conducted by the composer.


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## justekaia

Felsen unerklärlich (2020) for 8 trumpets from promising Iranian composer Elnaz Seyedi (1982) performed by the Monochrome Project.


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## justekaia

German composer Wolfgang von Schweinitz (1953) has explored the melodic and harmonic networks of just intonation. Klang auf Schön Berg La Monte Young (1999) for string trio is a word play on nice and young mountains and refers to Schönberg and his treatise of harmonies, as well as to the long tones and rich harmonies of La Monte Young. Gorgeous post-minimalism brilliantly performed by Marc Sabat and his colleagues.


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## justekaia

maybe some of you are not so familiar with the extraordinary variety of the American composer Alvin Lucier's (1931-2021) life work.it includes experiments, performances, but also more familiar categories like orchestral music, chamber music or music with ensemble. Slices (2007) for cello and orchestra belongs to his more accessible works and is divided into four parts wherein the cello dialogs with the orchestra. The cello plays a dominant role as it somehow steals sounds from the orchestra and then gives them back during the piece. Charles Curtis is the master soloist and is up against 53 musicians.


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## Nawdry

Hiawatha said:


> Lou Harrison - (Magnificent) 3rd Symphony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one which in some ways builds from Cowell in that it is the US looking beyond itself.


A pity that this work is rendered only by an ad-hoc festival ensemble and not an established symphonic orchestra. There is so much more substance here than in other contemporary samples, performed by established orchestras, I've been auditing.


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## justekaia

Carola Bauckholt (1959) is like a painter of sounds. She does not start her compositions with a pre-set plan but grounds her piece first, creates space and then finishes the story.
She translates sounds from different environments into music with her long experience of listening to machines and natural sounds.
Like Messiaen she is fascinated by bird sounds which give her pitches, the materials for her musical sounds. Having superior technology available she is able to know what is inside the bird sounds, which are very present in this piece.The bird sounds are produced by the woodwinds, while the human voice is represented by the lamenting strings.
A lot of her sounds are unexpected and build a game of echoes and sonorous pretences. I find this is the great attractive quality of her music.
Im Auge des Klangs (2018), one of her best orchestral pieces, is played by the WDR SO conducted by Emilio Pomarico.


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## justekaia

Vertigo (2008) for 2 pianos and orchestra by Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010) leaves you breathless like Hitchcock's film.
Obsessional brass calls sound before the entry of the spiralling pianos. A slow development in the middle section leads to an apocalyptic end. The soloists Nagano and Vichard are accompanied by the Liège PO directed by Pascal Rophé.


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## justekaia

Okhtor's (2010) title is a kind of palindrome of the famous American painter Rothko as the composer Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010) was preoccupied by the layers, patterns and sfumato found in his paintings. The composer includes new compositional techniques like superposition, clusters and patterns.
The sounds are complex and rich in inharmonic passages partly due to the unusual instrumentation. For the first time violence appears in his work and is represented by percussion instruments, including 3 tam-tams. It is a tragedy that he passed away shortly after finishing this masterpiece. The Strasburg PO is conducted by Pascal Rophé.


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## mikeh375

Bertrand died very young, how sad for someone so gifted with such imaginative orchestral virtuosity. Love Okhtor's timbral and mercurial orchestral fireworks, what a great piece. Straight to my playlist with this, thanks J.


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## justekaia

I could not resist listening to the 2 excellent versions of Thomas Larcher's (1963) Ouroboros (2015) for cello and orchestra this morning and decided to go for the Weilerstein performance although Queyras gives a perfect technical rendition.
The title refers to the Greek myth of the snake biting its tail and in the composer's mind it is meant as an eternal cyclic renewal mixing eruptions of violence with melancholic passages.
Complex textures require very precise playing and a small orchestra is required with the laser-like precision of a chef like Orozco-Estrada. A series of repeated motifs give the music a sense of circularity as the ideas progress and return to the original motif.
The piece is in three movements, the first an expressive start, the second an extended cadenza for cello and piano where Weilerstein's exuberance and magnetic presence are wonderful.
A beautiful and appeasing adagio brings the work to its conclusion.


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## justekaia

Philippe Manoury's (1952) violin concerto Synapse (2010) refers to the transmission of a nervous signal between two neurones. Similarly in his concerto there is a permanent transmission of information from sequence to sequence. The last sequence regroups all the information of the preceding ones in a sonorous image that reminds us of Mozart 's Jupiter Symphony.
Hae-Sun Kang is the soloist accompanied by the Bavarian Radio SO conducted by Mälkki.


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## justekaia

Dieter Ammann's (1962) music is a combination of improvised spontaneity and meticulous diligence exactly what you would expect from a Swiss. He starts with the idea of a sound which is fanned out and developed. His passion is to search and eventually stumble into areas unknown to him before, which gives his music the variety and novelty in each composition.
Glut (2016) is full of density and refined textures forming a world of inner glow shaped into sound and driving towards the external.
There is high concentration of what is heard at the same time but also of the multitude and complexity of the individual sound concepts. The Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich is conducted by Markus Stenz.
Ammann excels in orchestral music and his concertante works are outstanding.


----------



## tortkis

justekaia said:


> Felsen unerklärlich (2020) for 8 trumpets from promising Iranian composer Elnaz Seyedi (1982) performed by the Monochrome Project.


This project looks very interesting. Works for ensembles of the same instrument (like Sciarrino's 100 flute/sax piece) always fascinate me. They could create incredible otherworldly effects. I just listened to another clip from the project, Marton Illes' "Rez Ter", a ritualistic piece utilizing every part of the instrument.





According to the project's web site: "Inspired by his collaboration with the American composer La Monte Young, Marco Blaauw founded a trumpet ensemble in 2015 to explore the enormous variability of trumpet sounds and playing techniques within the framework of a wide variety of projects and through the development of diverse compositions."

Other trumpet ensemble works I know of:
Mazen Kerbaj: Walls Will Fall: The 49 Trumpets of Jericho
Craig Shepard: Trumpet City (realized by 126 trumpet players)


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## justekaia

This triple concerto for piano, violin and cello in five movements features 3 soloists as a metaphor for an island surrounded by an orchestra, representing a bustling city. They start off fairly individually to gradually morph into a trio and find oases of calm amid flares of intensity from the orchestra and even simply glide away from the orchestra at the end of the piece. 
Bent Sorensen (1958) wanted to express the contrast between the calm of private life and the disturbing elements that we face every day in a city.Trio con Brio Copenhagen treats us to this superlative concerto called l'Isola della Citta (2015) which means the Island in the city.


----------



## Mandryka

Well, I've just discovered a new composer. I mean, he's new for me! Bryn Harrison, I'm really enjoying something on spotify which I stumbled across by accident, with Mark Knoop and Ensemble Contrechamps. Here it is on youtube


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## justekaia

Mandryka said:


> Well, I've just discovered a new composer. I mean, he's new for me! Bryn Harrison, I'm really enjoying something on spotify which I stumbled across by accident, with Mark Knoop and Ensemble Contrechamps. Here it is on youtube


repetitions in extended time is great; you also want to try approaching memory where knoop plays the piano and vessels for piano played by p.thomas


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## justekaia

Voyage par-delà les fleuves et les monts (2010) by Hugues Dufourt (1943) is inspired by a monumental Chinese landscape painting by Fan-Kuan (990-1000) depicting nature and in particular mountains, which are the abode of the Gods.
Together with Murail and Grisey, Dufourt is one of the major figures of spectral music.
Dufourt tries to express the plenary feeling of nature in one musical block, without interruption or development tendencies.
There is only one rhythm with opposed tensions: ascension and suspense, emergence and gravity.
A dominant musical association between trombones and clarinet create a contrast between a deep sound and the diffracted sound of the clarinet.
Pierre-André Valade directs the Luxemburg PO in this orchestral piece.


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## justekaia

Saariaho's masterpiece concerto for harp. It is in two parts. The details are available, so i just post it to prove that they are a few harp concertos by contemporary composers (Kalevi Aho's is another one) that deserve your attention.


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## Mandryka

justekaia said:


> Voyage par-delà les fleuves et les monts (2010) by Hugues Dufourt (1943) is inspired by a monumental Chinese landscape painting by Fan-Kuan (990-1000) depicting nature and in particular mountains, which are the abode of the Gods.
> Together with Murail and Grisey, Dufourt is one of the major figures of spectral music.
> Dufourt tries to express the plenary feeling of nature in one musical block, without interruption or development tendencies.
> There is only one rhythm with opposed tensions: ascension and suspense, emergence and gravity.
> A dominant musical association between trombones and clarinet create a contrast between a deep sound and the diffracted sound of the clarinet.
> Pierre-André Valade directs the Luxemburg PO in this orchestral piece.


That's an interesting comment, which may help me to reframe the weightiness of his music.


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## justekaia

Mandryka said:


> That's an interesting comment, which may help me to reframe the weightiness of his music.


My comments on TC always focus only on the aspects that strike me most. Dufourt is a major composer and his percussion pieces are probably the nec plus ultra of his production. So you need to explore Burning bright and all those pieces. 
Like myself and many of his colleagues he has a deep connection with the visual arts from the classics to the most contemporary. This link between different artistic practices from painting, sculpture, film and dance and music is one of my major interests. Literature is obviously important to you and also plays an interesting role in the development of music. My latest comments on Dusapin's Etudes (see solo piano music) attest to the importance of interaction between music and the written word. A lot of connections.


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## Enthusiast

I often find Holliger's music interesting and even wonderful. I was listening to this disc today. Beiseit, in particular, is a wonderful work.


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## Mandryka

Enthusiast said:


> I often find Holliger's music interesting and even wonderful. I was listening to this disc today. Beiseit, in particular, is a wonderful work.


I guess he's one of the more interesting song writers around. You may also like this performance of Induuchlen -- much less relaxed than the one on ECM, and I think it's an improvement.


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## justekaia

Osvalo Golijov (1960) was born in La Plata in Argentina as the son of European Jewish immigrants and settled down in the USA in 1986. He blends all the diverse influences he has absorbed into a fresh vision that includes folk influences, kletzmer music and South-American rhythms. The fascinating cello concerto Azul (2006-2007) was composed with the soloist Yo-Yo Ma in mind and strives to combine a contemplative atmosphere with an expanded instrumentation including the haunting sonority of the hyper-accordion.The Chicago SO is conducted by the flamboyant Gustavo Dudamel.


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## Enthusiast

Mandryka said:


> I guess he's one of the more interesting song writers around. You may also like this performance of Induuchlen -- much less relaxed than the one on ECM, and I think it's an improvement.


Oh yes! I agree. Thanks for that link.

Meanwhile, I have been sucked into this - playing it on repeat!


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## justekaia

Egidija Medeksaite (1979) is a Lithuanian composer whose music has a meditative quality and is inspired by textile patterns and Indian music. The innovative Bozzini Quartet treats us to a gorgeous string quartet called Megh Malhar (2016) whose name refers to a Hindustani classical raga, which can cause rain. The composer based her score on the organza weave, a low density weave fabric, which is practically invisible due to its thin silk threads. Its surface and transparency is in harmony with the Indian raga.The thrills of the musical instruments resemble the illusion of sparkling dew in which each droplet reflects the microscopic world of the rain.


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## justekaia

The Romanian composer Horatiu Radulescu (1942-2008) belongs to the Spectral movement and also innovated with his invention of the icon, which is basically a grand piano on its side.
In "Mirabilia Mundi' (1986) which refers to the 7 wonders of the world Radulescu expands his venerated master Iannis Xenakis' experiments of spatialisation and features 7 large groups of players. He loves to see the work performed in an ancient Roman basilica like the monumental German Speyer Basilica which has 4 towers and 2 domes. The piece is inspired by a Persian miniature in the British museum and has a monks choir as a central feature of the composition.
Radulescu produces massive sound blocks and creates chords that never existed before.


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## justekaia

Francisco Coll's (1985) double concerto "Les Plaisirs illuminés" draws its title from a Dali painting and is an expansion of a two movement piece for violin and cello.
The piece is rooted in Spanish tradition, particularly flamenco, is very rhythmical but also in constant search of extremes which perfectly suits the spellbinding virtuosos Kopatchinskaja and Gabetta, who are accompanied by Camerata Bern conducted by the composer. The piece is in four parts.


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## justekaia

Bruno Mantovani's (1974) "Jeux d'Eau" (2012) is a powerful expressionistic violin concerto performed by Renaud Capuçon.
Oboe, flute and clarinet relay each other to start off the concerto and open up a waterway. After a few minutes a tumultuous wave ignites the power engine and contrabass rumblings and forceful violin strokes take over.
The undulatory qualities and spectacular sparks of the orchestra, directed by Philippe Jordan, contribute to showcase the richness of the piece.


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## tortkis

justekaia said:


> Egidija Medeksaite (1979) is a Lithuanian composer whose music has a meditative quality and is inspired by textile patterns and Indian music. The innovative Bozzini Quartet treats us to a gorgeous string quartet called Megh Malhar (2016) whose name refers to a Hindustani classical raga, which can cause rain. The composer based her score on the organza weave, a low density weave fabric, which is practically invisible due to its thin silk threads. Its surface and transparency is in harmony with the Indian raga.The thrills of the musical instruments resemble the illusion of sparkling dew in which each droplet reflects the microscopic world of the rain.


Thank you for introducing this wonderful composer. I purchased her album Textile. From accessible piano pieces to dreary drones, most works are minimal and static. The most impressive work from the album is Scintilla for symphony orchestra (2008). The patterns of sound like restless waves reminded me of Dufourt mentioned upthread, another composer I like.

Scintilla https://miclithuania.bandcamp.com/track/scintilla

Textile (miclithuania)


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## justekaia

Your perspicacity is wonderful.Scintilla is indeed her best piece up to now, but there are other gems you can discover on soundcloud.
I am convinced she will be a major composer. The flow in her music is extraordinary.


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## justekaia

French Marc-André Dalbavie's excellent Piano Concerto (2005) with Andsnes as soloist accompanied by the the Bavarian Radio SO conducted by Welser-Möst.


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## Enthusiast

Michael Finnessy - An attractive work for soprano, clarinet and piano.


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## Mandryka

Enthusiast said:


> Michael Finnessy - An attractive work for soprano, clarinet and piano.


I'm sure it is an attractive work, but I just don't get on with Clare Lesser's voice!


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## justekaia

Scelsi's (1905-1988) Konx-Om-Pax(1969) is his last orchestral work and features a chorus in the last movement like in Beethoven's ninth. The title refers to peace and is a fitting subject in this trying times. Peace is translated in Assyrian, Sanskrit and Latin.
This haunting music , together with Uaxuctum belongs to the best orchestral pieces of the 20 th century.


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## justekaia

It is not a coincidence that after Scelsi I post Nuits magnétiques (1993) from the Romanian Iancu Dumitrescu (1944) who is one of the leading spectral composers. He was poor and had very few technical means at his disposal when he started. Scelsi was rich and could afford technical support.
What unites them is that both did deep soul-searching and tried to find musical material deep inside themselves, which culminated into dreams in which Dumitrescu heard incredibly beautiful music. Both started working with instruments and built their compositions after experimenting, modifying and finally writing down the music (Dumitrescu) or have it written down by someone else (Scelsi). The younger Dumitrescu did not hear any music by Scelsi before it became famous in the eighties and the fact that there is a similarity in their music is pure synchronicity. The more unstable and explosive nature of Dumitrescu's works also confirms this point of view. Nuits magnétiques is also hauntingly beautiful and I am sure it will encourage you to discover more of his music. His solo (see the viola piece Holzwege featured by Mandryka) pieces are extraordinary.


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## justekaia

Christopher Cerrone's (1985) violin concerto "Breaks and Breaks" (2018) is inspired by the book Angels in America by Tony Kushner whose epitaph reads: In a murderous time, the heart breaks and breaks and lives by breaking. Sounds familiar.
The seven movements are played without a break and feature light violin lines, rhythmic dialogue between orchestra and soloist, plaintive melodies, explosive climaxes, a cadenza and technical play by Jennifer Koh sul ponticello and pizzicato. She is joined by the Detroit SO conducted by Peter Oundjian.


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## justekaia

Hypnotising composition for string orchestra, called Webster's Spin (1993) by Canadian Ann Southam(1937-2010) who first composed a lot of electronic music before focusing on traditional instruments in the last chapter of her life. Subtle changes outweigh big dramatic changes and the orchestral swell adds to the ever developing character of the piece, which ends quietly, like a chamber piece.


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## justekaia

American Augusta Read Thomas' (1964) superb second cello concerto called "Ritual Incantations" (1999) in three movements.


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## justekaia

This is the piece we have all been waiting for. It was composed in 1980 and its author was murdered in dramatic circumstances.
His name is Claude Vivier (1948-1983)) and he was a Canadian globe-trotter who assimilated the music of different regions in the world.
Zipangu (1980) is the name given to Japan at the time of Marco Polo. The composer travelled intensively throughout Asia and it inspired him to explore different aspects of musical color. His string ensemble is divided spatially in two different groups.
Exaggerated bow pressure, pizzicatos, ghostly harmonies, slippery glissandos, tonal centers, drone-like sounds and melodic manipulations are stealing the show in this absolute masterpiece. This version is the greatest with the Asko Ensemble conducted by the legendary Reinbert De Leeuw.


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## justekaia

Probably Kalevi Aho's (1949) best symphony. No 15 from 2010 played by the Lahti SO conducted by Dima Slobodeniouk. It is in four movements.


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## regenmusic

CnC Bartok said:


> While I'm banging on elsewhere about Czech music, I'd like to mention a handful of very decent near-contemporary composers from that part of the world
> 
> Viktor Kalabis







Viktor Kalabis Concerto for Harpsichord and Strings Op.42, Zuzana Růžičková


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## justekaia

Horizons (2013) by Zibuokle Martinaityte(1973) evokes vast landscapes with a nice spectral aura full of grace and subtility but also has its dramatic moments.


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## justekaia

Seungmin Kang plays Sublimation (2017) a cello concerto by Toshio Hosokawa(1955) that pits the soloist (man/woman) against nature (The orchestra).


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## mikeh375

This is turning out to be an invaluable thread.


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## justekaia

mikeh375 said:


> This is turning out to be an invaluable thread.


The best is still to come. Crescendo is the motto.


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## mikeh375

^^^Excellent, just so long as you don't _build_ towards a crescendo....


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## justekaia

Sofia Gubaidulina (1931) is an icon of Classical Contemporary. Her Tatar roots give her strength and resilience and enable her to compose very strong pieces in the twilight of her life. One of these is "Der Zorn Gottes" (2019) a powerful, beautiful and spiritual work.
God descends on earth and punishes mankind for its sins.
A wave of brass sounds is piling up, supported by percussion and is countered by adagio-like string passages, bell sounds and woodwind interjections.
The piece is dedicated to LVB and is influenced by the 4th movement of his last SQ (op 135) which he laboured to compose.
His cryptic question "Muss es sein" is answered positively in his work, while Gubaidulina tends to be negative. It means she does not accept the fate of a violent mankind.
LVB's last SQ was also a harbinger of Shosta's SQ no 8 and we clearly hear the latter's influence in her piece, particularly in the second passage. The beginnings of his syphonies 5 and 8 are also hinted at and one is reminded of the messianic emphasis of fear and terror in the face of the divine.
Gubaidulina's chromatic treatment does well to convey the spiritual emotions that build up to a dramatic climax.
The promising Ukrainian Oksana Lyniv conducts the ORF-Radio SO Vienna.


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## justekaia

Sielunmaisema (2019) for cello and strings by Lithuanian textural magician Zibuokle Martinaityte (1973).


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## Ludwig Schon

Linda Caitlin Smith

If Morton Feldman had been into Baroque he would have sounded like this…


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## justekaia

Salvatore Sciarrino (1947) is not only a great composer, but also an intellectual who evaluates and anticipates our living conditions.
His wonderful violin concerto (2013) "Giorno velato presso il lago nero" is played with unfaltering dedication by Carolin Widmann accompanied by the Bavarian Radio SO conducted by Jonathan Nott.


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## justekaia

The Ukrainian composer Valentin Silvestrov (1937) reminds us of many other important composers like Mozart, Mahler, Schnittke or Pärt and that is also why his music is full of contrasts. A perfect example is his outstanding piece "Postludium" (1984) which he calls a symphonic poem because it is a short, dense piece that features an initially observed conflict followed by pastoral melodies. His music is atmospheric but has the capacity to move us very deeply. The piano part is handled by Ivan Sokolov, while Borejko directs the Ural PO.There is another excellent version with Lubimov and Russell Davies on a disc which includes Metamusik which is an extended version of Postludium.


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## 20centrfuge

I’d throw these 10 names into the hat of excellent living composers:

John Adams
Unsuk Chin
Wolfgang Rihm
Brian Ferneyhough
Louis Andriessen
Sophia Gubaidulina
Thomas Ades
Michel Van der Aa
Salvatore Sciarrino
György Kurtág


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## justekaia

L'Oeil du Cyclone (2022), exciting piano concerto by major spectralist Tristan Murail (1948).
His favourite interpreter François-Frédéric Guy is accompanied by the Philharmonic Orchestra of Radio France directed by Brad Lubman.


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## Ludwig Schon

justekaia said:


> L'Oeil du Cyclone (2022), exciting piano concerto by major spectralist Tristan Murail (1948).
> His favourite interpreter François-Frédéric Guy is accompanied by the Philharmonic Orchestra of Radio France directed by Brad Lubman.


I adore Murail. Did not think much of Guy's recent solo piano pieces, Revolutions, which included Debussy's Preludes. In fact, it was garbage…

Terre d'Ombre (2014) with the OPRF and Peter Eotvos is much better.


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## Neo Romanza

Ludwig Schon said:


> In fact, it was garbage…


Which, in fact, is one of your favorite things to say, which I find unfortunate. Saying you simply dislike it must not be enough.  Anyway, remember that one man's junk is another man's treasure.


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## justekaia

Andrew Norman's (1979) "Sustain" (2018) is a contracting spiral, repeating the music 10 times in a row with each repetition accelerating the pace.
The composer imagined future times and all his thinking brought him close to the natural world, the earth and our relationship to it.
A certain sense of sadness permeates the music and refers to our shortcomings in taking care of the planet.
The piece feels like an acoustic experience about the future we imagine.


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## HenryPenfold

20centrfuge said:


> I'd throw these 10 names into the hat of excellent living composers:
> 
> John Adams
> Unsuk Chin
> Wolfgang Rihm
> Brian Ferneyhough
> Louis Andriessen
> Sophia Gubaidulina
> Thomas Ades
> Michel Van der Aa
> Salvatore Sciarrino
> György Kurtág


Sadly, Louis Andriessen passed away last year......


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## justekaia

Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012) has been fascinated by Eastern religions and philosophies.
His interest for new sonic realms opened up by electronics and his masterful command of orchestral forces make him one of the most fascinating British contemporary composers.
The orchestral work "Body Mandala" (2006) alternates the fierce wildness of ancient Tibetan purification rituals with a tranquil state of chant.


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## Mandryka

justekaia said:


> Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012) has been fascinated by Eastern religions and philosophies.
> His interest for new sonic realms opened up by electronics and his masterful command of orchestral forces make him one of the most fascinating British contemporary composers.
> The orchestral work "Body Mandala" (2006) alternates the fierce wildness of ancient Tibetan purification rituals with a tranquil state of chant.


I think the piece by him I've enjoyed most is Ritual Melodies.


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## justekaia

Mandryka said:


> I think the piece by him I've enjoyed most is Ritual Melodies.


In the category of electronic pieces i believe Mortuos Plango, Vivos Voco is his masterpiece.


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## justekaia

Concerto for orchestra (2019) by Slovenian composer Nina Senk (1982) who covers a broad musical spectrum with inspiration from historical and contemporary pieces. She alternates calm moments with more explosive ones in a concerto that has splendid moments and an interesting overall concept. Matthias Pintscher conducts the Bavarian Radio Orchestra.


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## justekaia

The American microtonal composer Catherine Lamb (1982) teams us with one of the leading contemporary quartets, the Jack Quartet, to give us one of the outstanding SQs of the 21 st century, called Divisio Spiralis (2019). It requires stamina from the performers and the audience but is well worth the effort. The piece starts at 2.05.


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## tortkis

justekaia said:


> The American microtonal composer Catherine Lamb (1982) teams us with one of the leading contemporary quartets, the Jack Quartet, to give us one of the outstanding SQs of the 21 st century, called Divisio Spiralis (2019). It requires stamina from the performers and the audience but is well worth the effort. The piece starts at 2.05.


Divisio Spiralis (I listened to the Kiros recording) is much more melodic and accessible compared with Lamb's earlier works, although I have heard only some of them. It is a beautiful work, sometime sounds almost like religious or spiritual music.


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## maladie

justekaia said:


> In the category of electronic pieces i believe Mortuos Plango, Vivos Voco is his masterpiece.


Mortuos Plango... is definitely an electroacoustic masterpiece and it was an important piece to show the possibilities of computers doing interesting inharmonic sounds in the 80's. Bhakti was another piece of his in the 80's that was very important and it's a mixed work. For IRCAM it was an important showpiece at that point as well.


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## justekaia

The Czech composer Ondrej Adamek (1979) is a sonic wizard and alchemist who shapes new worlds of sounds.
He travels intensively and his sensitivity and open-mindedness pervade his works, which absorb a lot from other cultures.
Nôise (2009) for example, a piece for large ensemble, is inspired by a stay in Kyoto and Japanese theatre mainly No and Bunraku, a form of puppet theatre.
Adamek uses theatre's instrumental sounds, buddhist sutras and toy shops' electronic jingles to create a very paradoxical mixture which resemble's today's world.
Susanna Mälkki conducts the Ensemble Intercontemporain.


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## justekaia

Marc Monnet (1947) is one of the well-hidden treasures of French contemporary music.
His works are unpredictable, inventive, disconcerting, unrealistic and attractive at the same time. His real aim is to construct sonorous phenomena to reach the audience.
His catalog is a real kaleidoscope, with particular strength in chamber music, but also in music for larger ensembles.
Monnet is not interested by the traditional romantic concerto any more and this violin concerto is more of a battle between the soloist and the orchestra. The composer worked closely with the virtuoso violinist Ted Papavrami and included passages in which he forms a kind a duo with one instrumentalist of the orchestra.
This lyrical, sparkling piece has unabated rhythm and dynamics.
"Pour Orchestre, Violon et autres Machins (2013) is played by the SWR Baden-Baden conducted by F.X.Roth.


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## justekaia

Syntax (2014) by Ivan Fedele (1953) is played by Radio France PO conducted by Ceccherini.
The composer wanted to write an homage to Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven and focused on certain aspects of their compositions: archetypes of aesthetic options which can give life to new musical and poetical forms and thus create a new syntax.
There are 3 parts: 1) the rigorous one dedicated to Haydn with an extreme synthesis of musical elements
 2) the brilliance of the articulation of timbre achieved by Mozart
3) Beethoven's revolutionary manipulation of the musical materials which leads to very diverse musical figures. The synthesizer used by Fedele at the end introduces new timbre elements in a climate of impetuosity and tension which refer to the "Sturm und Drang" Period of which Beethoven was one of the greatest interpreters.


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## justekaia

Le Songe de LLuc Alcari (1992) is a mysterious cello concerto by Jean-Louis Florentz (1947-2004) with Chiffoleau as the soloist and Krivine conducting the Lyon National Orchestra.
The first cellist plays an important role and emerges in the prolog; he is the alter ego of the soloist and irradiates the 11 other cellists with certain thematic elements which are in turn transmitted to the orchestra. The second movement is dominated by a stimulating cello dialog, while the third movement starts with a largo and increases the dramatic character of the whole piece. A remarkable last movement features a chaotic litany that leaves the soloist fighting alone. His last burst of energy is torn apart by a thundering cymbal crash which ends the piece.


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## Waehnen

Lots of Fenno-Ugric, Polish and Russian composers on my list! 

Kalevi Aho
Elena Firsova
Sofia Gubaidulina
Erik Bergman
György Ligeti
Witold Lutoslawski
Joonas Kokkonen
Krzysztof Penderecki
Arvo Pärt
Kaija Saariaho
Dmitri Smirnov
Esa-Pekka Salonen
Harri Vuori


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## justekaia

Excellent orchestral piece called Atlas (2019) by Swiss composer Helena Winkelman (1974).


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## justekaia

Canadian composer Nicole Lizée's Bookburners for cello and turntables. A fascinating inkling of the music of the future.


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## Red Terror

How do Nicole Lizée and the CBC know this is the music of the future? 😀


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## justekaia

Red Terror said:


> How do Nicole Lizée and the CBC know this is the music of the future? 😀


an inkling is very far from a certainty; moreover i made the comment, not the composer; so plse do not involve her, but listen to sculptress on soundcloud; this will tell you how good she is


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## justekaia

As i get the question in various other threads to recommend contemporary works, i have assembled a list of selected works per genre composed between 1982 and 2022. Happy listening.
Contemporary Music (1982-2022): Recommended listening

-Symphony: Symphony 8, Norgärd 2010-2011
-Orchestral Music: Shaker Loops, J.Adams 1983
-Piano Concerto: The Air suspended, Cerrone 2019
-Violin Concerto: Sur le même Accord, Dutilleux 2002
-Cello Concerto: Sielunmaisema, Martinaityte 2019
-Viola Concerto: Viola Concerto, B.Dean 2004
-Clarinet Concerto: Peacock Tales, Hillborg 1998-2004
-Oboe Concerto: Oboe concerto, E.Carter 1986-1987
-Guitar Concerto: Guitar Concerto no 9, Brouwer 2002
-Trumpet Concerto: Miramondo multiplo, Neuwirth 2006
-Ensemble music: In Vain, G.F. Haas 2000-2002
-String Quartet: Divisio Spiralis, C.Lamb 2019
-String Trio: In Honour of Schnittke, Korndorf 1986
-Piano Quintet: Piano Quintet, Ades 2000
-Solo String Music: Limite les Rêves au-delà, Parra 2017
-Solo Piano Music: Garden 8, Lei Liang 2004
-Vocal Music: Let me tell you, Abrahamsen 2013
-Choir Music: Choir Concerto, Schnittke 1984-1985
-Sacred Music: Stabat Mater, Pärt 1985
-Opera: Innocence, Saariaho 2018
-Electro-acoustic Music: Forêt profonde, Dhomont 1994-1996


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## justekaia

Helen Grime's Violin Concerto (2016) , probably one of the best violin concertos of this century. As confirmed to me by the composer you should listen only until 22:43. The rest are repetitions of bits and pieces. Leila Josefowicz plays the concerto regularly during her concerts.


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## justekaia

Arne Nordheim was a fabulous Norwegian composer with strong orchestral and chamber music, coupled with outstanding vocal music and some exceptional electronic pieces. I invite you to listen to his "Rendez-Vous" an orchestral piece which consists of three parts. My favourite is the third a haunting piece for strings called Nachruf.


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## justekaia

Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi (1981) is the trombonist and conductor Christian Lindberg's daughter and has carved out a career as a composer for herself. Next to this impressive Cello Concerto she has an excellent symphony, a few excellent orchestral works and 3 remarkable string quartets. A composer well worth exploring.


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## mikeh375

justekaia said:


> Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi (1981) is the trombonist and conductor Christian Lindberg's daughter and has carved out a career as a composer for herself. Next to this impressive Cello Concerto she has an excellent symphony, a few excellent orchestral works and 3 remarkable string quartets. A composer well worth exploring.


Beautiful and hypnotic, I loved it. It's quite accessible imv if anyone with more conservative ears wants to try it as there are clear expanded tonal underpinnings and thematic material. Symphony in Fire,Water, Earth and Air is on YT and booked in for listening to later today. Thanks Justekaia.


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## justekaia

Rachel Carson's bestseller book "Silent Spring" was published in 1962 and nearly 50 years later Steven Stucky (1949-2016) was commissioned to write a piece on the biologist's scientific and ecological themes. Stucky's tone poem (2011) takes us to the sea, the woods, the rivers and finally the Silent Spring. It is a one movement orchestral piece that tries to create a dramatic and emotional journey. To Stucky music must give us access to our deepest emotional planes where we experience our lives to the fullest. Manfred Honeck premiered the piece with the Pittsburgh SO in 2012 and recently recorded it.


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## justekaia

Contemporary Classical Composers after 1950

-Argentina: Alberto Ginastera (1916-1983), Osvaldo Golijov (1960), Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
-Armenia: Avet Terterian (1929-1994), Tigran Mansourian (1939)
-Australia: Brett Dean (1961), Chris Dench (1953), Liza Lim (1966), Peter Sculthorpe (1929-2014), Carl Vine (1953)
-Austria: Peter Ablinger (1959), Friedrich Cerha (1926), Georg Friedrich Haas (1953), Bernhard Lang (1957), Klaus Lang (1971), Thomas Larcher (1963), Wolfgang Mitterer (1958), Olga Neuwirth (1968)
-Azerbaijan: Franghiz Ali-Sadeh (1947)
-Belgium: Stefan Prins (1979)
-Brazil: Jose Antonio De Almeida Prado (1943-2010)
-Bulgaria: Dobrinka Tabakova (1980)
-Cambodia: Chinary Ung (1942)
-Canada: Martin Arnold (1959), Taylor Brook (1985), Zosha Di Castri (1985), Nicole Lizée (1973), Cassandra Miller (1976), Marjan Mozetich (1948), Raymond Murray Schafer (1933-2021), Linda Catlin Smith (1957), Marc Sabat (1965), Ann Southam (1937-2010), Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
-China: Qigang Chen (1951), Yi Chen (1953), Du Yun (1977), Ge Gan-Ru (1954), Lei Liang (1972), Huang Ruo (1976), Bright Sheng (1955), Tan Dun (1957), Zhou Long (1953), Zhou Tian (1981)
-Colombia: Carolina Noguera (1979)
-Croatia: Mirela Ivicevic (1980)
-Cuba: Leo Brouwer (1939)
-Cyprus: Yannis Kyriakides (1969)
-Czech Republic: Ondrej Adamek (1979), Victor Kalabis (1923-2006), Krystof Maratka (1972), Martin Smolka (1959)
-Denmark: Hans Abrahamsen (1952), Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen (1932-2016), Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996), Per Norgard (1932), Poul Ruders (1949), Bent Sorensen (1958), Simon Steen-Andersen (1976)
-England: Thomas Ades (1971), Julian Anderson (1967), Natasha Barrett (1982), Richard Barrett (1959), Sally Beamish (1956), George Benjamin (1960), Harrison Birtwistle (1934-2022), Charlotte Bray (1982), Gavin Bryars (1943), Cornelius Cardew (1936-1981), Anna Clyne (1980), Edward Cowie (1943), Laurence Crane (1961), Peter Maxwell Davies (1934-2016), Tansy Davies (1973), Brian Ferneyhough (1943), Michael Finnissy (1946), Alexander Goehr (1932) , Philip Grange (1956), Bryn Harrison (1969), Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012), Sam Hayden (1968), Kenneth Hesketh (1968), Simon Holt (1959), Kenneth Leighton (1928-1988), Colin Matthews (1946), David Matthews (1943), Joseph Phibbs (1974), John Pickard (1963), Naomi Pinnock (1979), Rebecca Saunders (1967), Robert Simpson (1921-1997), Ronald Stevenson (1928-2015), John Tavener (1949-2013), Michael Tippett (1905-1998), Mark-Anthony Turnage (1960), Judith Weir (1954)
-Estonia: Rene Eespere (1953), Tönu Körvits (1969), Arvo Pärt (1935), Urmas Sisask (1960), Lepo Sumera (1950-2000), Veljo Tormis (1930-2017), Helena Tulve (1972), Erkki-Sven Tuur (1959)
-Faroe : Sunleif Rasmussen (1961)
-Finland: Kalevi Aho (1949), Einar Englund (1916-1999), Sebastian Fagerlund (1972), Paavo Heininen (1938-2022), Joonas Kokkonen (1921-1996), Magnus Lindberg (1958), Pehr Henrik Nordgren (1944-2008), Einojuhani Rautavaara (1928-2016), Kaija Saariaho (1954) , Aullis Sallinen (1935), Esa-Pekka Salonen (1958), Jukka Tiensuu (1948)
-France: Gilbert Amy (1936), Mark André (1964), Alain Bancquart (1934), François Bayle (1932), Franck Bedrossian (1972), Karol Beffa (1973), Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010), Pierre Boulez (1925-2016), Edith Canat de Chizy (1950), Bernard Cavanna (1951), Guillaume Connesson (1970), Pascale Criton (1954), Marc-André Dalbavie (1961), Francis Dhomont ( 1926), Hugues Dufourt (1943), Pascal Dusapin (1955), Henri Dutilleux (1916-2013), Jean-Claude Eloy (1938), Thierry Escaich (1965), Luc Ferrari (1929-2005), Jean-Louis Florentz (1947-2004), Olivier Greif (1950-2000), Gérard Grisey ( 1936-1998), Philippe Hurel (1955), Michael Levinas (1949), Ivo Malec (1925-2019), Philippe Manoury (1952), Bruno Mantovani (1974), Yan Maresz (1961), Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Marc Monnet (1947), Tristan Murail (1948), Maurice Ohana (1913-1992), Bernard Parmegiani (1927-2013), Eliane Radigue (1932), Thierry Pécou (1965) , Jean-Claude Risset (1938-2016), Yann Robin (1974), Philippe Schoeller (1957), Eric Tanguy (1968)
-Georgia: Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)
-Germany: Carola Bauckholt (1959), Nikolaus Brass (1949), Heiner Goebbels (1952), Friedrich Goldmann (1941-2009), Hans-Werner Henze (1926-2012), Adriana Hölszky (1953), Eva-Maria Houben (1955), Helmut Lachenmann (1935), Isabel Mundry (1963), Matthias Pintscher (1971), Enno Poppe (1969), Wolfgang Rihm (1952), Peter Ruzicka (1948), Mathias Spahlinger (1944), Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007), Wolfgang Von Schweinitz (1953), Hans Tutschku (1966), Jörg Widmann (1973) , Bernd Alois Zimmermann (1918-1970)
-Greece: George Aperghis (1945), Panayiotis Kokoras (1974), Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)
-Hungary: Peter Eötvös (1944), Gyorgy Kurtag (1926), Gyorgi Ligeti (1923-2006)
-Iceland: Atli Ingolfsson (1962), Thuridur Jonsdottir (1967), Anna Thorvaldsdottir (1977)
-Iran: Elnaz Seyedi (1982)
-Ireland: Gerald Barry (1952), Donnacha Dennehy (1970), Elizabeth Maconchy (1907-1994)
-Israel: Chaya Czernowin (1957), Yair Klartag (1985), Shulamit Ran (1949)
-Italy: Luciano Berio (1925-2003), Pierluigi Billone (1960), Franco Donatoni (1927-2000), Ivan Fedele (1953), Luca Francesconi (1956), Stefano Gervasoni (1962), Clara Iannotta (1983), Luigi Nono (1924-1990), Fausto Romitelli (1963-2004), Lucia Ronchetti (1963), Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988), Salvatore Sciarrino (1947), Marco Stroppa (1959), Francesca Verunelli (1979)
-Japan: Dai Fujikura (1977), Toshio Hosokawa (1955), Misato Mochizuki (1969), Akira Nishimura (1953), Toru Takemitsu (1930-1996), Takashi Yoshimatsu (1953)
-Korea: Unsuk Chin (1961) , Younghi Pagh-Paan (1945), Isang Yun (1917-1995)
-Latvia: Peteris Vasks (1946)
-Lithuania: Juste Janulyte (1982), Egidija Medeksaite (1979), Onute Narbutaite (1956), Zibuokle Martinaityte (1973)
-Mexico: Julio Estrada (1943), Arturo Fuentes (1975), Victor Ibarra (1978), Mario Lavista (1943-2021), Hilda Paredes (1957)
-Netherlands: Peter Adriaansz (1966), Simeon ten Holt (1923-2012), Louis Andriessen (1939-2021), Michel Van der Aa (1970)
-New Zealand: Eve de Castro-Robinson (1956), Denis Smalley (1946)
-Norway: Eivind Buene (1973), Arne Nordheim (1930-2010)
-Peru: Juan Arroyo (1981)
-Poland: Hendryk Gorecki (1933-2010), Witold Lutoslawski (1913-1994), Krzysztof Meyer (1943), Andrzej Panufnik (1914-1991), Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020), Joanna Wozny (1973), Agata Zubel (1978)
-Portugal: Emmanuel Nunes (1941-2012), Joao Pedro Oliveira (1959), Jaime Reis (1983)
-Romania: Maia Ciobanu (1952), Iancu Dumitrescu (1944), Horatiu Radulescu (1942-2008), Doina Rotaru (1951)
-Russia: Sergey Akhunov (1967), Vyacheslav Artyomov (1940), Edison Denisov (1929-1996), Alissa Firsova (1986), Sofia Gubaidulina (1931), Vera Ivanova (1977), Marina Khorkova (1981), Nikolai Korndorf (1947-2001), Vladimir Martynov (1946), Alexander Raskatov (1953), Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998), Rodion Shchedrin (1932), Boris Tishchenko (1939-2010) , Galina Ustvolskaya (1919-2006)
-Scotland: James Dillon (1950), Helen Grime (1981), Alistair Hinton (1950), Oliver Knussen (1952-2018), James MacMillan (1959)
-Serbia: Milica Djordjevic (1984)
-Slovakia: Adrian Democ (1985), Vladimir Godar (1956)
-Slovenia: Nina Senk (1982)
-South Africa: Kevin Volans (1947)
-Spain: Francisco Coll (1985), Gustavo Diaz-Jerez (1970), Francisco Guerrero (1951-1997), Jose Manuel Lopez Lopez (1956), Elena Mendoza (1973), Hector Parra (1976), Alberto Posadas (1967), Roberto Gerhard (1896-1970), Mauricio Sotelo (1961)
-Sweden: Ellen Arkbro (1990), Malin Bang (1974), Anders Hillborg (1954), Allan Pettersson (1911-1980), Ylva Skog (1963), Lisa Streich (1985), Andrea Tarrodi (1981)
-Switzerland: Dieter Ammann (1962), Richard Dubugnon (1968), Jürg Frey (1953), Beat Furrer (1954), Klaus Huber (1924-2017), Michael Jarrell (1958), Helena Winkelman (1974)
-Turkey: T.Ercetin (1983)
-Ukraine: Leonid Desyatnikov (1955), Valentin Silvestrov (1937)
-United States: John Coolidge Adams (1947) , John Luther Adams (1953) , Lera Auerbach (1973) , Milton Babbitt (1916-2011), Mason Bates(1977), John Cage (1912-1992), Robert Carl (1954), Richard Carrick (1971), Elliott Carter (1908-2012), Christopher Cerrone (1985), Anthony Cheung (1982), John Chowning (1934), Gloria Coates (1938), John Corigliano (1938), George Crumb (1929), Sebastian Currier (1953), Bryce Dessner (1976), Alexandra du Bois (1981),William Duckworth (1943-2012), Julius Eastman (1940-1990), Jason Eckardt (1971) , Robert Erickson (1917-1997), Mohammed Fairouz (1985) , Morton Feldman (1926-1987), George Flynn (1937), Peter Garland (1952), Stacy Garrop (1969), Randy Gibson (1978), Philip Glass (1937), Michael Gordon (1956), John Harbison (1938), Lou Harrison (1917-2003), Michael Harrison (1959), Jake Heggie (1961), Sarah Hennies (1979), Michael Hersch (1971), Jennifer Higdon (1962), Alan Hovhaness (1911-2000), Dennis Johnson (1938), Tom Johnson (1938), Ben Johnston (1926-2019), Aaron Jay Kernis (1960), Catherine Lamb (1982), David Lang (1957), Libby Larsen (1950), Hannah Lash (1981), Benjamin Lees (1924-2010), Lowell Liebermann (1961), Alvin Lucier (1931-2021), Ingram Marshall (1942), Sky Macklay (1988), James Matheson (1970), Missy Mazzoli (1980) , Meredith Monk (1942), Nico Muhly (1981), Andrew Norman (1979), Pauline Oliveros (1932-2016), Tristan Perich (1982), Vincent Persichetti (1915-1987), Steve Reich (1936), Roger Reynolds (1935), Terry Riley (1935), Ned Rorem (1923), Frederic Rzewski (1937-2021), Joseph Schwantner (1943), Laura Schwendinger (1962), Ralph Shapey (1921-2002), Elliott Sharp (1952), Caroline Shaw (1982), Gabriella Smith (1991), Kate Soper (1981), Tyshawn Sorey (1980), Steven Stucky (1949-2016), Ellen Taaffe-Zwilich (1939), James Tenney (1934-2006), Christopher Theofanidis (1967), Augusta Read Thomas (1964), Michael Torke (1961), Joan Tower (1938), George Tsontakis (1951), Julia Wolfe (1958), Christian Wolff (1934), Charles Wuorinen (1938-2020), La Monte Young (1935)

My list does not show stars to indicate the quality of the composers because TC's software does not satisfactorily represent my private list with stars. It is the work of a lifetime and a gracious gift to TC members. Anyway i wanted to share this list with the members to show the richness of contemporary music as i show nearly 400 composers which is approximately the same figure i have for pre 1950 composers in my archives. My objective is to reach the 500 mark and i hope my fellow members will contribute to this list. Members like San Antone (thks) are crucial in this segment of classical music and i appeal to him and former and present members to contribute more.I have talked to several members and they enjoy what others post but are afraid to comment and make suggestions themselves. From my experience i reject 80 % of the contemporary classic i hear. So do not be afraid to post.Be bold. And plse make comments, instead of likes. We get great support from Art Rock who is a fan, so we are in a good position to give a lot of listening enjoyment to TC members.


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## Prodromides

I shall make so bold and query 'justekaia' on what is her criteria in her assessment on music?
80% rejection!

I hope justekaia is not working at a publishing company - 4 out of 5 submissions will receive rejection.
What does a composer need to demonstrate in order to attain entrance into your Top 20%?


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## justekaia

Prodromides said:


> I shall make so bold and query 'justekaia' on what is her criteria in her assessment on music?
> 80% rejection!
> 
> I hope justekaia is not working at a publishing company - 4 out of 5 submissions will receive rejection.
> What does a composer need to demonstrate in order to attain entrance into your Top 20%?


i'll quickly reassure you; i don't work for anybody; but i listen to loads of contemporary composers and i am choosy; i might listen to a piece on spotify and reject after 10 seconds; i have more patience with human beings


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## Prodromides

justekaia said:


> i'll quickly reassure you; i don't work for anybody; but i listen to loads of contemporary composers and i am choosy; i might listen to a piece on spotify and reject after 10 seconds; i have more patience with human beings


All of us, no doubt, have stopped playing/listening to specific pieces of music because we were not 'in the mood' for such during those moments. Nevertheless, whichever the pieces of music are, they took time for completion (some took weeks - maybe only days - whilst others took months ... even _years_) and it is disheartening for me that any given work's prospects could get summarily dismissed in mere seconds.

I'm curious to know what sort of pieces (perhaps 2 or 3 titles of works) were passed over by justekaia.
Any possibility these might benefit from 'second chances'?


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## justekaia

Prodromides said:


> All of us, no doubt, have stopped playing/listening to specific pieces of music because we were not 'in the mood' for such during those moments. Nevertheless, whichever the pieces of music are, they took time for completion (some took weeks - maybe only days - whilst others took months ... even _years_) and it is disheartening for me that any given work's prospects could get summarily dismissed in mere seconds.
> 
> I'm curious to know what sort of pieces (perhaps 2 or 3 titles of works) were passed over by justekaia.
> Any possibility these might benefit from 'second chances'?


First of all my list is a positive list with nearly 400 composers and i have collected 12 000 pieces in total from these composers. It is meant to give recommendations that can have value for our fellow members. My subjective choice to reject a composer or some works has no negative effect on either of them as i do not make this public. Since you ask for examples i have collected Mauricio Kagel's SQs, piano trios, Die Stücke der Windrose and a few piano and organ pieces. I do not like the rest of his oeuvre. American composers like Mario Davidowsky, David del Tredici and Lukas Foss are not my cup of tea and never will be. Some of our members like these composers and i respect that. On the other hand there are still plenty of composers i have not listened to. As I have stated there is still room for worthwhile additions. By the way i have only one criterion: my ears must like what i hear and be challenged. I hope this satisfies your query.


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## Prodromides

There is no shortage of names who are absent from justekaia's above listing.

One at a time, I'll deposit a composer ... with an image of an album if such exists online.

*Ashot Zograbian* (b. 1945)










//e.snmc.io/i/300/w/f317be8e29ff9d3e91925e92608759d0/2721138


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## Prodromides

justekaia said:


> First of all my list is a positive list with nearly 400 composers and i have collected 12 000 pieces in total from these composers. It is meant to give recommendations that can have value for our fellow members. My subjective choice to reject a composer or some works has no negative effect on either of them as i do not make this public. Since you ask for examples i have collected Mauricio Kagel's SQs, piano trios, Die Stücke der Windrose and a few piano and organ pieces. I do not like the rest of his oeuvre. American composers like Mario Davidowsky, David del Tredici and Lukas Foss are not my cup of tea and never will be. Some of our members like these composers and i respect that. On the other hand there are still plenty of composers i have not listened to. As I have stated there is still room for worthwhile additions. By the way i have only one criterion: my ears must like what i hear and be challenged. I hope this satisfies your query.


Yes, thanks for your reply. I learn more about people through their dislikes than what they approve of.
I now get a sense that justekaia is not enamored of consonant-sounding/tonal idioms. I guess Paul Creston is another one similar to the American trio cited above. As for Kagel, I, too, have difficulty penetrating into his aural world.
Another composer I can't get into is Franco Donatoni. I own 3 CDs of Donatoni's music but each time I listen to any of them I make no further progress and give up.

Speaking for myself, my favorite time period is from the early 1950s up through the late 1970s (generally the 3rd quarter of the 20th century). I notice many serialists missing from justekaia's data (i.e. no Sessions, Searle, Dallapiccola, many others) and I wonder if their 'no show' is due to unfamiliarity with their music ... or deliberate omission?


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## justekaia

Prodromides said:


> Yes, thanks for your reply. I learn more about people through their dislikes than what they approve of.
> I now get a sense that justekaia is not enamored of consonant-sounding/tonal idioms. I guess Paul Creston is another one similar to the American trio cited above. As for Kagel, I, too, have difficulty penetrating into his aural world.
> Another composer I can't get into is Franco Donatoni. I own 3 CDs of Donatoni's music but each time I listen to any of them I make no further progress and give up.
> 
> Speaking for myself, my favorite time period is from the early 1950s up through the late 1970s (generally the 3rd quarter of the 20th century). I notice many serialists missing from justekaia's data (i.e. no Sessions, Searle, Dallapiccola, many others) and I wonder if their 'no show' is due to unfamiliarity with their music ... or deliberate omission?


I respectfully want to point out that it would take 4 years to listen to my contemporary collection at my routine 8 hours of listening a day. Add 5 or 8 years for my collection before WW II. This is one of the reasons why i make drastic choices.
Sessions and Dallapiccola are well represented in my collection but i consider the serialists like Dallapiccola to be in the modern category (influenced by the second Viennese School) and Sessions is clearly a modern composer.
Contemporary to me is a concept of new music that has no boundaries; i do not pay too much attention to timelines. I think Varese is the first contemporary composer in spirit. Boulez went on to compose different music after his serial period and is therefore included in my contemporary list. I have not listened to Searle but i will since you mention him although he belongs to modern serialism. Donatoni is a hard nut to crack and like you i am not convinced as i have his entire catalog but only like 9 pieces. As to my preferences in music i believe i am extremely eclectic but i tend to appreciate music that focuses on sound more (which i guess validates your point). That being said there are plenty of very tonal and accessible composers in my list especially among the young crop of women composers (Anna Clyne, Gabriella Smith etc..). I also love De Morales, De Victoria, Monteverdi, JS Bach, CPE Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Mahler and many modern composers who were pretty tonal. But Mozart's dissonance quartet and Beethoven late quartets are among my favourite pieces which are hints of what is to come so many years later.


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## Prodromides

*Gerard Zinsstag* (b.1941)


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## justekaia

Prodromides said:


> There is no shortage of names who are absent from justekaia's above listing.
> 
> One at a time, I'll deposit a composer ... with an image of an album if such exists online.
> 
> *Ashot Zograbian* (b. 1945)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> //e.snmc.io/i/300/w/f317be8e29ff9d3e91925e92608759d0/2721138


i find it strange that you do not start your own thread as you know so many good composers; it seems you aim to surf on successful threads of others


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## justekaia

ungefähr ganz genau (2022), Georg Friedrich Haas' (1953) new piece (loosely translated as approximately exactly) has as its subject a 1885 conference to determine a standard pitch for different orchestras. freedom to play out of tune, to feel the tension between the pitches in order to try and optimise the vibrations produced is the goal. a state of stillness is constantly broken. tonal reminiscences and striking glissandi abound within a richly coloured field while crescendi and decrescendi produce feelings of convergence and divergence, compression and relaxation. this is IMHO one of Haas's best orchestral works to date and can compete with In Vain, Dark Dreams and Limited Approximations which are all among the best orchestral works of this century.


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## justekaia

i am totally devastated by the lack of response or reaction to this absolute masterpiece and have therefore decided not to post any more on this thread


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## EvaBaron

justekaia said:


> i am totally devastated by the lack of response or reaction to this absolute masterpiece and have therefore decided not to post any more on this thread


I listened to the first 5 seconds and I was like nope. Sorry it’s too late to be listening to music that sounds like that. I’m not sure but was that atonal?


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## justekaia

EvaBaron said:


> I listened to the first 5 seconds and I was like nope. Sorry it’s too late to be listening to music that sounds like that. I’m not sure but was that atonal?


Like Beethoven, Haas is writing for the future generations so maybe it is not of interest to you. For your info Haas mixes tonal and atonal.


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## allaroundmusicenthusiast

justekaia said:


> i am totally devastated by the lack of response or reaction to this absolute masterpiece and have therefore decided not to post any more on this thread


I'd be grateful if you didn't. I think the _work_ you do both here and in the contemporary piano pieces thread has enormous value, even if no one replies, or only one or two other members do, I'm sure there are people lurking and paying attention. I am one of those. This year I haven't been able to listen to much music, let alone explore as much as I usually do, so your recommendations have been really helpful. I hope you keep doing it. Cheers. 
Oh, I love Haas, and I'll probably listen to this new piece either tomorrow or friday,.


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## justekaia

allaroundmusicenthusiast said:


> I'd be grateful if you didn't. I think the _work_ you do both here and in the contemporary piano pieces thread has enormous value, even if no one replies, or only one or two other members do, I'm sure there are people lurking and paying attention. I am one of those. This year I haven't been able to listen to much music, let alone explore as much as I usually do, so your recommendations have been really helpful. I hope you keep doing it. Cheers.
> Oh, I love Haas, and I'll probably listen to this new piece either tomorrow or friday,.


thks for yr kind words. i have tried to make two template contributions. but you cannot imagine my disappointment at the lack of dialog/feedback. life should be a two way street.otherwise i am not interested. so i will not post any works any more on those two threads. I will still answer people like you if they have questions. i might start other threads. my interest for spanish music, especially renaissance music is well known but i could go all the way to the most contemporary composers. i am also thinking of doing a thread about electronic/electro-acoustic music in which i am specialised. our members do not realise the nuggets i have shown in the two former threads, so why should they be interested by music they do not know at all. one negative comment about haas will not discourage me, but no response/reaction at all is alarming if you realise you are dealing with the beethoven of our era. take care JK


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## Simon Moon

justekaia said:


> ungefähr ganz genau (2022), Georg Friedrich Haas' (1953) new piece (loosely translated as approximately exactly) has as its subject a 1885 conference to determine a standard pitch for different orchestras. freedom to play out of tune, to feel the tension between the pitches in order to try and optimise the vibrations produced is the goal. a state of stillness is constantly broken. tonal reminiscences and striking glissandi abound within a richly coloured field while crescendi and decrescendi produce feelings of convergence and divergence, compression and relaxation. this is IMHO one of Haas's best orchestral works to date and can compete with In Vain, Dark Dreams and Limited Approximations which are all among the best orchestral works of this century.


So far, I have not been completely enthralled with spectralism (or is this post-spectralism?). 

I think there is not enough 'movement' in the music for me. At least where my tastes are currently. 

But I do hear enough to keep me listening, and open to it. So much music that is among my favorite, in various genres that I listen to, took a bit of time to appreciate. I've learned enough over the years, to not instantly give up on music that does not immediately appeal to me. 

It is probably only a matter of time before I find my entry into the style.


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## tortkis

justekaia said:


> Contemporary Classical Composers after 1950
> 
> -Argentina: Alberto Ginastera (1916-1983), Osvaldo Golijov (1960), Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
> -Armenia: Avet Terterian (1929-1994), Tigran Mansourian (1939)
> -Australia: Brett Dean (1961), Chris Dench (1953), Liza Lim (1966), Peter Sculthorpe (1929-2014), Carl Vine (1953)
> -Austria: Peter Ablinger (1959), Friedrich Cerha (1926), Georg Friedrich Haas (1953), Bernhard Lang (1957), Klaus Lang (1971), Thomas Larcher (1963), Wolfgang Mitterer (1958), Olga Neuwirth (1968)
> -Azerbaijan: Franghiz Ali-Sadeh (1947)
> -Belgium: Stefan Prins (1979)
> -Brazil: Jose Antonio De Almeida Prado (1943-2010)
> -Bulgaria: Dobrinka Tabakova (1980)
> -Cambodia: Chinary Ung (1942)
> -Canada: Martin Arnold (1959), Taylor Brook (1985), Zosha Di Castri (1985), Nicole Lizée (1973), Cassandra Miller (1976), Marjan Mozetich (1948), Raymond Murray Schafer (1933-2021), Linda Catlin Smith (1957), Marc Sabat (1965), Ann Southam (1937-2010), Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
> -China: Qigang Chen (1951), Yi Chen (1953), Du Yun (1977), Ge Gan-Ru (1954), Lei Liang (1972), Huang Ruo (1976), Bright Sheng (1955), Tan Dun (1957), Zhou Long (1953), Zhou Tian (1981)
> -Colombia: Carolina Noguera (1979)
> -Croatia: Mirela Ivicevic (1980)
> -Cuba: Leo Brouwer (1939)
> -Cyprus: Yannis Kyriakides (1969)
> -Czech Republic: Ondrej Adamek (1979), Victor Kalabis (1923-2006), Krystof Maratka (1972), Martin Smolka (1959)
> -Denmark: Hans Abrahamsen (1952), Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen (1932-2016), Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996), Per Norgard (1932), Poul Ruders (1949), Bent Sorensen (1958), Simon Steen-Andersen (1976)
> -England: Thomas Ades (1971), Julian Anderson (1967), Natasha Barrett (1982), Richard Barrett (1959), Sally Beamish (1956), George Benjamin (1960), Harrison Birtwistle (1934-2022), Charlotte Bray (1982), Gavin Bryars (1943), Cornelius Cardew (1936-1981), Anna Clyne (1980), Edward Cowie (1943), Laurence Crane (1961), Peter Maxwell Davies (1934-2016), Tansy Davies (1973), Brian Ferneyhough (1943), Michael Finnissy (1946), Alexander Goehr (1932) , Philip Grange (1956), Bryn Harrison (1969), Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012), Sam Hayden (1968), Kenneth Hesketh (1968), Simon Holt (1959), Kenneth Leighton (1928-1988), Colin Matthews (1946), David Matthews (1943), Joseph Phibbs (1974), John Pickard (1963), Naomi Pinnock (1979), Rebecca Saunders (1967), Robert Simpson (1921-1997), Ronald Stevenson (1928-2015), John Tavener (1949-2013), Michael Tippett (1905-1998), Mark-Anthony Turnage (1960), Judith Weir (1954)
> -Estonia: Rene Eespere (1953), Tönu Körvits (1969), Arvo Pärt (1935), Urmas Sisask (1960), Lepo Sumera (1950-2000), Veljo Tormis (1930-2017), Helena Tulve (1972), Erkki-Sven Tuur (1959)
> -Faroe : Sunleif Rasmussen (1961)
> -Finland: Kalevi Aho (1949), Einar Englund (1916-1999), Sebastian Fagerlund (1972), Paavo Heininen (1938-2022), Joonas Kokkonen (1921-1996), Magnus Lindberg (1958), Pehr Henrik Nordgren (1944-2008), Einojuhani Rautavaara (1928-2016), Kaija Saariaho (1954) , Aullis Sallinen (1935), Esa-Pekka Salonen (1958), Jukka Tiensuu (1948)
> -France: Gilbert Amy (1936), Mark André (1964), Alain Bancquart (1934), François Bayle (1932), Franck Bedrossian (1972), Karol Beffa (1973), Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010), Pierre Boulez (1925-2016), Edith Canat de Chizy (1950), Bernard Cavanna (1951), Guillaume Connesson (1970), Pascale Criton (1954), Marc-André Dalbavie (1961), Francis Dhomont ( 1926), Hugues Dufourt (1943), Pascal Dusapin (1955), Henri Dutilleux (1916-2013), Jean-Claude Eloy (1938), Thierry Escaich (1965), Luc Ferrari (1929-2005), Jean-Louis Florentz (1947-2004), Olivier Greif (1950-2000), Gérard Grisey ( 1936-1998), Philippe Hurel (1955), Michael Levinas (1949), Ivo Malec (1925-2019), Philippe Manoury (1952), Bruno Mantovani (1974), Yan Maresz (1961), Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Marc Monnet (1947), Tristan Murail (1948), Maurice Ohana (1913-1992), Bernard Parmegiani (1927-2013), Eliane Radigue (1932), Thierry Pécou (1965) , Jean-Claude Risset (1938-2016), Yann Robin (1974), Philippe Schoeller (1957), Eric Tanguy (1968)
> -Georgia: Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)
> -Germany: Carola Bauckholt (1959), Nikolaus Brass (1949), Heiner Goebbels (1952), Friedrich Goldmann (1941-2009), Hans-Werner Henze (1926-2012), Adriana Hölszky (1953), Eva-Maria Houben (1955), Helmut Lachenmann (1935), Isabel Mundry (1963), Matthias Pintscher (1971), Enno Poppe (1969), Wolfgang Rihm (1952), Peter Ruzicka (1948), Mathias Spahlinger (1944), Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007), Wolfgang Von Schweinitz (1953), Hans Tutschku (1966), Jörg Widmann (1973) , Bernd Alois Zimmermann (1918-1970)
> -Greece: George Aperghis (1945), Panayiotis Kokoras (1974), Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)
> -Hungary: Peter Eötvös (1944), Gyorgy Kurtag (1926), Gyorgi Ligeti (1923-2006)
> -Iceland: Atli Ingolfsson (1962), Thuridur Jonsdottir (1967), Anna Thorvaldsdottir (1977)
> -Iran: Elnaz Seyedi (1982)
> -Ireland: Gerald Barry (1952), Donnacha Dennehy (1970), Elizabeth Maconchy (1907-1994)
> -Israel: Chaya Czernowin (1957), Yair Klartag (1985), Shulamit Ran (1949)
> -Italy: Luciano Berio (1925-2003), Pierluigi Billone (1960), Franco Donatoni (1927-2000), Ivan Fedele (1953), Luca Francesconi (1956), Stefano Gervasoni (1962), Clara Iannotta (1983), Luigi Nono (1924-1990), Fausto Romitelli (1963-2004), Lucia Ronchetti (1963), Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988), Salvatore Sciarrino (1947), Marco Stroppa (1959), Francesca Verunelli (1979)
> -Japan: Dai Fujikura (1977), Toshio Hosokawa (1955), Misato Mochizuki (1969), Akira Nishimura (1953), Toru Takemitsu (1930-1996), Takashi Yoshimatsu (1953)
> -Korea: Unsuk Chin (1961) , Younghi Pagh-Paan (1945), Isang Yun (1917-1995)
> -Latvia: Peteris Vasks (1946)
> -Lithuania: Juste Janulyte (1982), Egidija Medeksaite (1979), Onute Narbutaite (1956), Zibuokle Martinaityte (1973)
> -Mexico: Julio Estrada (1943), Arturo Fuentes (1975), Victor Ibarra (1978), Mario Lavista (1943-2021), Hilda Paredes (1957)
> -Netherlands: Peter Adriaansz (1966), Simeon ten Holt (1923-2012), Louis Andriessen (1939-2021), Michel Van der Aa (1970)
> -New Zealand: Eve de Castro-Robinson (1956), Denis Smalley (1946)
> -Norway: Eivind Buene (1973), Arne Nordheim (1930-2010)
> -Peru: Juan Arroyo (1981)
> -Poland: Hendryk Gorecki (1933-2010), Witold Lutoslawski (1913-1994), Krzysztof Meyer (1943), Andrzej Panufnik (1914-1991), Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020), Joanna Wozny (1973), Agata Zubel (1978)
> -Portugal: Emmanuel Nunes (1941-2012), Joao Pedro Oliveira (1959), Jaime Reis (1983)
> -Romania: Maia Ciobanu (1952), Iancu Dumitrescu (1944), Horatiu Radulescu (1942-2008), Doina Rotaru (1951)
> -Russia: Sergey Akhunov (1967), Vyacheslav Artyomov (1940), Edison Denisov (1929-1996), Alissa Firsova (1986), Sofia Gubaidulina (1931), Vera Ivanova (1977), Marina Khorkova (1981), Nikolai Korndorf (1947-2001), Vladimir Martynov (1946), Alexander Raskatov (1953), Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998), Rodion Shchedrin (1932), Boris Tishchenko (1939-2010) , Galina Ustvolskaya (1919-2006)
> -Scotland: James Dillon (1950), Helen Grime (1981), Alistair Hinton (1950), Oliver Knussen (1952-2018), James MacMillan (1959)
> -Serbia: Milica Djordjevic (1984)
> -Slovakia: Adrian Democ (1985), Vladimir Godar (1956)
> -Slovenia: Nina Senk (1982)
> -South Africa: Kevin Volans (1947)
> -Spain: Francisco Coll (1985), Gustavo Diaz-Jerez (1970), Francisco Guerrero (1951-1997), Jose Manuel Lopez Lopez (1956), Elena Mendoza (1973), Hector Parra (1976), Alberto Posadas (1967), Roberto Gerhard (1896-1970), Mauricio Sotelo (1961)
> -Sweden: Ellen Arkbro (1990), Malin Bang (1974), Anders Hillborg (1954), Allan Pettersson (1911-1980), Ylva Skog (1963), Lisa Streich (1985), Andrea Tarrodi (1981)
> -Switzerland: Dieter Ammann (1962), Richard Dubugnon (1968), Jürg Frey (1953), Beat Furrer (1954), Klaus Huber (1924-2017), Michael Jarrell (1958), Helena Winkelman (1974)
> -Turkey: T.Ercetin (1983)
> -Ukraine: Leonid Desyatnikov (1955), Valentin Silvestrov (1937)
> -United States: John Coolidge Adams (1947) , John Luther Adams (1953) , Lera Auerbach (1973) , Milton Babbitt (1916-2011), Mason Bates(1977), John Cage (1912-1992), Robert Carl (1954), Richard Carrick (1971), Elliott Carter (1908-2012), Christopher Cerrone (1985), Anthony Cheung (1982), John Chowning (1934), Gloria Coates (1938), John Corigliano (1938), George Crumb (1929), Sebastian Currier (1953), Bryce Dessner (1976), Alexandra du Bois (1981),William Duckworth (1943-2012), Julius Eastman (1940-1990), Jason Eckardt (1971) , Robert Erickson (1917-1997), Mohammed Fairouz (1985) , Morton Feldman (1926-1987), George Flynn (1937), Peter Garland (1952), Stacy Garrop (1969), Randy Gibson (1978), Philip Glass (1937), Michael Gordon (1956), John Harbison (1938), Lou Harrison (1917-2003), Michael Harrison (1959), Jake Heggie (1961), Sarah Hennies (1979), Michael Hersch (1971), Jennifer Higdon (1962), Alan Hovhaness (1911-2000), Dennis Johnson (1938), Tom Johnson (1938), Ben Johnston (1926-2019), Aaron Jay Kernis (1960), Catherine Lamb (1982), David Lang (1957), Libby Larsen (1950), Hannah Lash (1981), Benjamin Lees (1924-2010), Lowell Liebermann (1961), Alvin Lucier (1931-2021), Ingram Marshall (1942), Sky Macklay (1988), James Matheson (1970), Missy Mazzoli (1980) , Meredith Monk (1942), Nico Muhly (1981), Andrew Norman (1979), Pauline Oliveros (1932-2016), Tristan Perich (1982), Vincent Persichetti (1915-1987), Steve Reich (1936), Roger Reynolds (1935), Terry Riley (1935), Ned Rorem (1923), Frederic Rzewski (1937-2021), Joseph Schwantner (1943), Laura Schwendinger (1962), Ralph Shapey (1921-2002), Elliott Sharp (1952), Caroline Shaw (1982), Gabriella Smith (1991), Kate Soper (1981), Tyshawn Sorey (1980), Steven Stucky (1949-2016), Ellen Taaffe-Zwilich (1939), James Tenney (1934-2006), Christopher Theofanidis (1967), Augusta Read Thomas (1964), Michael Torke (1961), Joan Tower (1938), George Tsontakis (1951), Julia Wolfe (1958), Christian Wolff (1934), Charles Wuorinen (1938-2020), La Monte Young (1935)
> 
> My list does not show stars to indicate the quality of the composers because TC's software does not satisfactorily represent my private list with stars. It is the work of a lifetime and a gracious gift to TC members. Anyway i wanted to share this list with the members to show the richness of contemporary music as i show nearly 400 composers which is approximately the same figure i have for pre 1950 composers in my archives. My objective is to reach the 500 mark and i hope my fellow members will contribute to this list. Members like San Antone (thks) are crucial in this segment of classical music and i appeal to him and former and present members to contribute more.I have talked to several members and they enjoy what others post but are afraid to comment and make suggestions themselves. From my experience i reject 80 % of the contemporary classic i hear. So do not be afraid to post.Be bold. And plse make comments, instead of likes. We get great support from Art Rock who is a fan, so we are in a good position to give a lot of listening enjoyment to TC members.


I like many of the composers in the list, and it is good to see (especially in the USA category) those who are usually not mentioned often and whose works are classified as minimal, post-minimal, drones, microtonal, west coast school, wandelweiser, etc. Unfortunately Crumb and Marshall passed away this year.

Here are few other composers not listed who I believe are some of best contemporary composers.
Daniel Lentz (b.1942, USA) - “When it comes to attempts at musical seduction, Lentz’s music is way out front.” (Kyle Gann)
Paul Lansky (b.1944, USA) - experimental and also catchy
Larry Polansky (b.1954, USA)- microtonal, theoretical & musical
Marc Yeats (b.1962, UK) - rhythmically complex polytemporal music
Kory Reeder (b.1993, USA) - young, but already composed substantial works ranging from short to large scale


----------



## justekaia

thks for contributing so much to this thread. once again you surprise me by pointing out 3 composers who are unknown to me (Lentz, Lansky, Reeder). Polansky and Yeats are composers i know but who have not totally convinced me, although they have some excellent works. I tend to judge composers on the totality of their oeuvre rather than on specific pieces. anyway i will listen to the five of them and might give you some comments.


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## justekaia

i think this thread is the greatest ever about contemporary classical and i pay my respects to the mastermind; my own commitment to contemporary remains unabated and i will prove it in my next threads


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## justekaia

tortkis said:


> I like many of the composers in the list, and it is good to see (especially in the USA category) those who are usually not mentioned often and whose works are classified as minimal, post-minimal, drones, microtonal, west coast school, wandelweiser, etc. Unfortunately Crumb and Marshall passed away this year.
> 
> Here are few other composers not listed who I believe are some of best contemporary composers.
> Daniel Lentz (b.1942, USA) - “When it comes to attempts at musical seduction, Lentz’s music is way out front.” (Kyle Gann)
> Paul Lansky (b.1944, USA) - experimental and also catchy
> Larry Polansky (b.1954, USA)- microtonal, theoretical & musical
> Marc Yeats (b.1962, UK) - rhythmically complex polytemporal music
> Kory Reeder (b.1993, USA) - young, but already composed substantial works ranging from short to large scale


i have added kory reeder to my list; fascinating and very prolific composer, who is at ease in many categories and is still very young; i am trying to listen to all his works but he has composed a lot in the last two years; it is difficult to get hold of the new pieces; thks for yr recommendation; i still need to listen to the others


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## tortkis

justekaia said:


> i have added kory reeder to my list; fascinating and very prolific composer, who is at ease in many categories and is still very young; i am trying to listen to all his works but he has composed a lot in the last two years; it is difficult to get hold of the new pieces; thks for yr recommendation; i still need to listen to the others


I am glad you like Reeder. Few days ago Another Timbre released a new recording of his long chamber music, Codex Vivere. I think austerity and lyricism are well balanced in the work.








Codex Vivere, by Kory Reeder / Apartment House


9 track album




anothertimbre.bandcamp.com


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## justekaia

tortkis said:


> I am glad you like Reeder. Few days ago Another Timbre released a new recording of his long chamber music, Codex Vivere. I think austerity and lyricism are well balanced in the work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Codex Vivere, by Kory Reeder / Apartment House
> 
> 
> 9 track album
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anothertimbre.bandcamp.com


yes, i have bought codex vivere and codex symphonia from another timbre a few days ago. both albums are great. my sound engineer is preparing new cds with separate works of Reeder, which i have already partially heard and shortlisted. i will send you a list of the works i like per category once i have heard all.


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## AndorFoldes

justekaia said:


> Like Beethoven, Haas is writing for the future generations so maybe it is not of interest to you. For your info Haas mixes tonal and atonal.


What makes you think people's tastes will be different in the future? The goal of almost all professional composers is to get funding for their music, and so they must comply with the whims of their patrons.


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## justekaia

AndorFoldes said:


> What makes you think people's tastes will be different in the future? The goal of almost all professional composers is to get funding for their music, and so they must comply with the whims of their patrons.


Almost all contemporary contemporary composers do not interest me, precisely because they write commercial music in order to please their public. I have shortlisted 400 contemporary composers (and the list grows every year) who i think write or have written fascinating visionary music. Haas is one of them. I have a personal contact with the living ones and had with some of the deceased ones and i can assure you that they write what they want to write and not what their public/patrons want to hear. The instructions they get from their patrons only concern the category of composition (orchestral, chamber, opera) etc..
I will give you an example. Anna Thorvaldsdottir will give the premiere of her new work Archora at the BBC Proms on August 11th. The core inspiration behind Archora centres around the notion of a primordial energy and the idea of an omnipresent parallel realm. Her body of works is a coherent ensemble of pieces that evolves all the time and is enriched with new ideas. Can you for one second imagine that this composer writes to comply with the whims of her patrons? The other 399 are similar cases.
The tastes of people vary all the time and even our members have vastly different tastes which i respect.
But i do not think serious composers care about the tastes of people in general. But they do care about the opinions of people who study and appreciate their works. Their collaborators play an important role as well, because music has become more complex.
I sincerely hope this answers your query satisfactorily.


----------



## AndorFoldes

justekaia said:


> Almost all contemporary contemporary composers do not interest me, precisely because they write commercial music in order to please their public. I have shortlisted 400 contemporary composers (and the list grows every year) who i think write or have written fascinating visionary music. Haas is one of them. I have a personal contact with the living ones and had with some of the deceased ones and i can assure you that they write what they want to write and not what their public/patrons want to hear. The instructions they get from their patrons only concern the category of composition (orchestral, chamber, opera) etc..


Assuming that many composers get paid by the government, at least in Europe, there must be someone that approves the funding. I assume you have to jump through a number of hoops to get to that point, maybe get a degree in music and then display your skill within whatever the current paradigm is in composition. And I find it strange to think that the patron would not care about the result if the funding was provided privately.



justekaia said:


> I will give you an example. Anna Thorvaldsdottir will give the premiere of her new work Archora at the BBC Proms on August 11th. The core inspiration behind Archora centres around the notion of a primordial energy and the idea of an omnipresent parallel realm. Her body of works is a coherent ensemble of pieces that evolves all the time and is enriched with new ideas. Can you for one second imagine that this composer writes to comply with the whims of her patrons? The other 399 are similar cases.


How does she get paid for her music? I listened to one of her works, and it was quite interesting. It has a certain "primal" quality like what you hear from other Nordic composers.



justekaia said:


> The tastes of people vary all the time and even our members have vastly different tastes which i respect.
> But i do not think serious composers care about the tastes of people in general. But they do care about the opinions of people who study and appreciate their works. Their collaborators play an important role as well, because music has become more complex.
> I sincerely hope this answers your query satisfactorily.


Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that most composers will make sure that whatever they do doesn't stop the money from coming in, assuming they cannot live off of their music commercially.


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## justekaia

I think your comments do not apply to the composers i am interested by.
Moreover your assumption that many composers get paid by the government in Europe is so far away from the truth.Some of them teach, some have a partner who has a decent job and most of the good ones get commissions mainly from performers, famous orchestras or private companies or individuals.
Your last comment is very cynical indeed as i know quite a few world class composers who struggle financially but courageously continue in a style that might be less within the current paradigm . A composer who has money coming in whatever he/she does (besides composing) simply does not exist.
My comments just represent observations through my contacts with contemporary composers and performers. Of course there are millions i do not know but i doubt they will get the red carpet treatment you are describing.


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## Mandryka

Anyone have any ideas about why it’s called Ungefähr Ganz Genau.

By coincidence I’ve been listening a lot this week to In Vain (and now I come to think about it I wonder why he called that one In Vain!)


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## Mandryka

Mandryka said:


> Anyone have any ideas about why it’s called Ungefähr Ganz Genau.


Ah, I now see @justekaia answered that!


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## Andrew Kenneth

Mandryka said:


> (...)
> By coincidence I’ve been listening a lot this week to In Vain (and now I come to think about it I wonder why he called that one In Vain!)


This is the Gramophone's take on this question =>
"Haas conceived _in vain_ against the backdrop of trouble at home. The Austrian people had just given Jörg Haider’s far-right Freedom Party electoral succour and the future looked irretrievably bleak. But Haas was determined to learn from history. Beginning with a flurry of high-velocity activity that, as commentators invariably point out, places the opening securely within the terrain of Ligeti’s signature technique of micropolyphony (ie a polyphony of smudging polyphonies), something wholly unanticipated then happens. As the house lights are dimmed, the music morphs from equal-tempered certainty towards intervals plucked from the natural overtone series; time stalls and the whole basis of Western tuning is forced into retreat. Horn figurations evoking Wagner and Bruckner are distorted but therefore refreshed and reclaimed. And later, as the lights dim again, darkness is transformed into genuine sonic light. The musicians, now unable to see their music stands, work memorised fragments of material, based around overtones radiating outwards from a C fundamental, into a canopy of tonal light. But then equal temperament reasserts itself – the prospect is raised that this journey has all been in vain."

Gramophone article => Contemporary composer: Georg Friedrich Haas


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## justekaia

Andrew Kenneth said:


> This is the Gramophone's take on this question =>
> "Haas conceived _in vain_ against the backdrop of trouble at home. The Austrian people had just given Jörg Haider’s far-right Freedom Party electoral succour and the future looked irretrievably bleak. But Haas was determined to learn from history. Beginning with a flurry of high-velocity activity that, as commentators invariably point out, places the opening securely within the terrain of Ligeti’s signature technique of micropolyphony (ie a polyphony of smudging polyphonies), something wholly unanticipated then happens. As the house lights are dimmed, the music morphs from equal-tempered certainty towards intervals plucked from the natural overtone series; time stalls and the whole basis of Western tuning is forced into retreat. Horn figurations evoking Wagner and Bruckner are distorted but therefore refreshed and reclaimed. And later, as the lights dim again, darkness is transformed into genuine sonic light. The musicians, now unable to see their music stands, work memorised fragments of material, based around overtones radiating outwards from a C fundamental, into a canopy of tonal light. But then equal temperament reasserts itself – the prospect is raised that this journey has all been in vain."
> 
> Gramophone article => Contemporary composer: Georg Friedrich Haas


thks for posting this because it reflects the ideas of the composer; of course i believe that it also reflects G.F.'s personal struggles and the position in which the individual is being manoeuvered by our governments; in vain is not giving up, it just means our previous efforts have not been successful; so it is also a wake-up call


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## justekaia

__
https://soundcloud.com/egidija_medeksaite%2Fscintilla
miraculous piece; one of my favourites at the moment


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## justekaia

__
https://soundcloud.com/joan-magrane-figuera%2Fobreda-obc-ono
One of the major young talents out of Spain, Joan Magrane Figuera with a fantastic work "Obreda" (2020).


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## Red Terror

Haas' work has gotten less and less interesting since he remarried.


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## justekaia

Red Terror said:


> Haas' work has gotten less and less interesting since he remarried.


I think you do not read my posts, do not follow the news, do not listen to recent G.F..Haas's music.
Like i said before Haas is the Beethoven of our era and probably more. His next opera Syncorax will be his 6 th major opera (a bit better than Beethoven isn't it) and will be premiered in September. Read all about it in Bas Wiegers'podcast.
I have recently featured an exceptional piece by Haas, i repeat an exceptional piece, so that you get it called "Ungefähr ganz genau". It will take you some time to understand the content and to appreciate the music, i am sure. Because the difference between contemporary composers and composers from the past is that there is some content in the music nowadays. His second violin concerto is being premiered. I have not heard it yet, but have no reason to have doubts about its quality.
Mollema, whom you feature so exquisitely, has a very positive influence on her husband. Not only on his music.


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## justekaia

Thomas Ades'Inferno is the first part of his Dante Project. In the meantime Purgatorio and Paradiso have been premiered as well in 2022.We are dealing with orchestral music for ballet which lends itself to choreography and video images. Ades is not only referring to Dante but also to Liszt with his demonic and hellish music.
Inferno is a real rollercoaster with some dissonant passages and then other melodious ones. It is a very impressive piece of 45 minutes that can stand on its own and has all the qualities of a symphony.


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## Mandryka

Just seeing reference to Dante makes me wonder what you guys make of Sciarrino's music for Paradiso. I haven't been able to get my head round it despite multiple attempts, I need to approach it when I'm in a different frame of mind maybe. 

Musiche Per Il "Paradiso" di Dante (1993) , Musiche di Scena Per Soli E Orchestra: L'invenzione... - YouTube


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## justekaia

Sciarrino's music is esoteric and therefore will not appeal to most listeners. As you are probably aware he is mostly self-taught but has built a very impressive body of works that includes some very interesting operas. I must admit that he is a composer that I rate highly because of some outstanding works, but i also realise that many other of his works will not stand the test of time.


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## justekaia

justekaia said:


> Thomas Ades'Inferno is the first part of his Dante Project. In the meantime Purgatorio and Paradiso have been premiered as well in 2022.We are dealing with orchestral music for ballet which lends itself to choreography and video images. Ades is not only referring to Dante but also to Liszt with his demonic and hellish music.
> Inferno is a real rollercoaster with some dissonant passages and then other melodious ones. It is a very impressive piece of 45 minutes that can stand on its own and has all the qualities of a symphony.





Mandryka said:


> Just seeing reference to Dante makes me wonder what you guys make of Sciarrino's music for Paradiso. I haven't been able to get my head round it despite multiple attempts, I need to approach it when I'm in a different frame of mind maybe.
> 
> Musiche Per Il "Paradiso" di Dante (1993) , Musiche di Scena Per Soli E Orchestra: L'invenzione... - YouTube


By the way i have been listening to the very recent version of Musiche by Angius, which is excellent. The Prologue and the last part are not so successful, but the long middle movement is quite interesting. It is very quiet, refined, subtle and enjoyable music.


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## justekaia

One of the unsung French giants is Nicolas Bacri (1961) who is equally at ease with the large and the small form.
Curiuously this excellent post-romantic piece called "A day" (2013) has only been performed by the London SO with the composer conducting in 2021. It is another example of the untapped reservoir of outstanding recent compositions.
It is a delightful post-romantic piece which proves that tonal and a-tonal, melodious and dissonant, micro intervals and other intervals, all have a space in today's contemporary classical.


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## Mandryka

justekaia said:


> By the way i have been listening to the very recent version of Musiche by Angius, which is excellent. The Prologue and the last part are not so successful, but the long middle movement is quite interesting. It is very quiet, refined, subtle and enjoyable music.


There’s another Dante inspired piece by Sciarrino which I’ve started to explore, Sui Poemi Concentrici.


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## Simon Moon

justekaia said:


> One of the major young talents out of Spain, Joan Magrane Figuera with a fantastic work "Obreda" (2020).


Thanks for posting that!

Really good stuff, from a composer I am completely unfamiliar with.

I will be exploring more of their music.


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## Red Terror

justekaia said:


> I think you do not read my posts, do not follow the news, do not listen to recent G.F..Haas's music.
> Like i said before Haas is the Beethoven of our era and probably more. His next opera Syncorax will be his 6 th major opera (a bit better than Beethoven isn't it) and will be premiered in September. Read all about it in Bas Wiegers'podcast.
> I have recently featured an exceptional piece by Haas, i repeat an exceptional piece, so that you get it called "Ungefähr ganz genau". It will take you some time to understand the content and to appreciate the music, i am sure. Because the difference between contemporary composers and composers from the past is that there is some content in the music nowadays. His second violin concerto is being premiered. I have not heard it yet, but have no reason to have doubts about its quality.
> Mollema, whom you feature so exquisitely, has a very positive influence on her husband. Not only on his music.


That’s certainly an opinion—one I do not share.


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## justekaia

Red Terror said:


> That’s certainly an opinion—one I do not share.


I defend my opinions with passion so that members give the piece a chance, so that they might listen to it. That being said i welcome and respect other opinions like yours.


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## justekaia

A Gossamer Bit (2015) by Canadian composer Allison Cameron (1963) is a hypnotic piece of music driven by violinist Sarah Fraser Raff's brilliant declamations. The music is a fusion of minimalism, Ives, jazz and I also hear some Indian influences. To be enjoyed without moderation.


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## tortkis

I love Allison Cameron's music - sophisticated and enchanting. The way jazz melodies & harmonies are used in DIY Fly is fascinating.


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## SanAntone

justekaia said:


> Like i said before Haas is the Beethoven of our era and probably more.


I think Haas is a sick and perverted man, whose music is overrated and your opinion is hyperbolic in the extreme.


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## justekaia

SanAntone said:


> I think Haas is a sick and perverted man, whose music is overrated and your opinion is hyperbolic in the extreme.


I heard Haas in a long interview on Austrian radio a couple of days ago and he was clearly in good health and explained the inspiration, intentions and technique of his music and its emotional and intellectual content in superlative fashion. His private life is of no concern to me. As to the quality of his music i pay as little attention to your subjective opinion as you pay to mine. His body of works speaks for itself.


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## Forster

I'm never quite sure what a body of work says when it "speaks for itself". Certainly, it can't compare itself to Beethoven. That comparison can only be made by the listener to the body of work.

I've read in the press that he's one of the most important living composers. That seems like a strong enough endorsement without the Beethoven comparison.


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## justekaia

Forster said:


> I'm never quite sure what a body of work says when it "speaks for itself". Certainly, it can't compare itself to Beethoven. That comparison can only be made by the listener to the body of work.
> 
> I've read in the press that he's one of the most important living composers. That seems like a strong enough endorsement without the Beethoven comparison.


 When I said Haas is the Beethoven of our era i meant that he is the dominant living composer, nothing else.It does not make sense to compare music from centuries ago to today's music. I believe each era has to be considered on its own merits and you can pick your favourites. Haas is just my personal favourite of this era. So allow me the hyperboles and the superlatives because they are just the expression of my admiration for the composer. Then as i said you have to listen to his interviews (he is a brilliant mind), to the great podcast the conductor Bas Wiegers is doing about Sycorax.


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## Forster

justekaia said:


> [...]
> 
> When I said Haas is the Beethoven of our era i meant that he is the dominant living composer, nothing else.It does not make sense to compare music from centuries ago to today's music.
> 
> [...]


Ah, right, that's fine then.



justekaia said:


> [...]
> Haas is just my personal favourite of this era. So allow me the hyperboles and the superlatives because they are just the expression of my admiration for the composer.


That's also fine.


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## justekaia

now if you ask me who who is the greatest composer of all times i will answer iannis xenakis and by a wide margin, because of all the innovations he incorporated in his compositions; i doubt any other composer can get anywhere near that; again his body of works is extraordinary


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## hammeredklavier

SanAntone said:


> I think Haas is a sick and perverted man, whose music is overrated and your opinion is hyperbolic in the extreme.


Remember you used to say Wagner was overrated, Cage was underrated? You might change your view on Haas too, depending on how much chance you give him; who knows?


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## hammeredklavier

Something Rich and Strange: The Life and Music of Iannis Xenakis


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## SanAntone

hammeredklavier said:


> Remember you used to say Wagner was overrated, Cage was underrated? You might change your view on Haas too, depending on how much chance you give him; who knows?


No, I used to think he was an interesting composer. But after coming into contact with an article he wrote about Schubert's Erlkönig (which I thought was preposterous and warped) my interest in him faded to black. I thought after reading it that anyone who came up with such a distorted and tawdry interpretation of Schubert's song cannot have any priorities which musically I find worthwhile.


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## Mandryka

justekaia said:


> ou ask me who who is the greatest composer of all times i will answer iannis xenakis and by a wide margin, because of all the innovations he incorporated in his compositions; i doubt any other composer can get anywhere near that; again is body of works is extraordinary and i will share it with you
> Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)





justekaia said:


> now if you ask me who who is the greatest composer of all times i will answer iannis xenakis and by a wide margin, because of all the innovations he incorporated in his compositions; i doubt any other composer can get anywhere near that; again his body of works is extraordinary and i will share it with you
> Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)
> 
> Orchestral Music
> 
> -Metastaseis A for 65 musicians, RAI SO-Tamayo* 1953-1954
> -Metastaseis B for 60 musicians, SWF-Kwame Ryan, Orch.Nat.ORTF-Le Roux, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1953-1954
> -Pithoprakta for orchestra, Orch Nat ORTF-Le Roux, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1955-1956
> -ST 48 for 48 instruments, WDR Sinfonie Koln-Tabachnik, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1959-1962
> -Hiketides Suite, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1964
> -Terretektorh for 88 instruments, PO ORTF-Charles Bruck, Residentie Orkest The Hague-Tamayo* 1966
> -Polytope de Montreal light and sound for 4 orchestras, Ensemble Ars Nova-Marius Constant 1967
> -Nomos Gamma for 98 instruments, ORTF PO-Charles Bruck, Residentie Orkest The Hague-Tamayo* 1967-1968
> -Synaphai for piano and orchestra, Hiroaki Ooi-Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1969
> -Antikhton ballet for orchestra, New PO-Howarth, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1971
> -Aroura for 12 strings, Ensemble Resonanz-Kalitzke, Solistenensemble Kaleidoskop-T.J.Lee 1971
> -Eridanos for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1972
> -Noomena for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1974
> -Erikhthon for piano and orchestra, Ooi-Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1974
> -Empreintes for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1975
> -Jonchaies for 109 musicians, Nouvel Orch Phil-Gilbert Amy, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1977
> -Lichens for 96 musicians, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1983
> -Shaar for strings, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1983
> -Horos for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1986
> -Keqrops for piano and orchestra, Woodward-Gustav Mahler Youth Orch-Abbado* 1986
> -Ata for 89 musicians, SWF SO-Michael Gielen, Orch Nat Luxembourg-Tamayo 1987
> -Tracées for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1987
> -Kyania for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1990
> -Roai for orchestra, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1991
> -Krinoidi for 71 musicians, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1991
> -Troorkh for trombone and 89 musicians, Chr.Lindberg-Oslo PO-Rundel, Svoboda-BRSO-Rundel 1991
> -Dox-Orkh for violin and orchestra, Arditti-Moscow PO-Nott 1991
> -Dämmerschein for large orchestra, Carnegie Mellon PO-Izquierdo 1993-1994
> -Ioolkos for large orchestra, SWF-Kwamé Ryan 1995
> -Sea-Change, BBC SO-A.Davis* 1997
> 
> Ensemble Music
> -Achorripsis for 21 instruments, Ensemble Instrumental de Musique Contemporaine de Paris-Simonovitch, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1956-1957
> -ST 10 for 10 instruments, Ensemble instrumental de musique contemporaine de Paris-Simonovich 1956-1962
> -Syrmos for 18 strings, Ensemble Ars Nova-Marius Constant, Ensemble Resonanz-Kalitzke*, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo 1959
> -Morsima-Amorsima, for violin, cello, counterbass and piano, Jacqueline Mefano and Membres Octuor Paris, Aki Takahashi- Callithumpian Consort-Drury 1962
> -Eonta for piano, trumpets and trombones, Yuji Takahashi-P.Thibault-L.Longo-J.Toulon-G.Moisan-M.Chapellier- Ensemble Instrumental de Musique Contemporaine de Paris-Simonovic, Aki Takahashi-Callithumpian Consort-Drury*, J.Rubin-ST-X Ensemble-Bronstein 1963-1964
> -Akrata for 8 winds and 8 brass instruments, ST-X Ensemble 1964-1965
> -Akrata for 16 wind instruments, Ensemble instrumental de musique contemporaine de Paris-Simonovich*, Luxembourg PO-Tamayo* 1964-1965
> -Persephassa for 6 percussionists, Carnegie Mellon PO 1969
> -Anaktoria for two violins, viola, cello, counterbass, clarinet, horn and bassoon, Octuor de Paris, Asko Ensemble-Asbury 1971
> -Phlegra for flute, clarinet, trumpet, trombone, violin, viola, cello, bass, ST-X, Asko Ensemble-Asbury 1975
> -Epei for ensemble, Spectrum Ensemble-Protheroe 1976
> -Windungen for 8 cellos, Cello Octet Iberico* 1976
> -Pleiades, Percussions de Strasbourg* 1978
> -Palimpsest for piano and ensemble, Spectrum Ensemble-Protheroe, Smythe-ICE-Schick, Aki Takahashi-The Society for new Music-Peltz 1979
> -Thallein for flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horn, trumpet, trombone, 2 percussions, piano, 2 violins, viola, cello, bass, ST-X Ensemble, ICE 1984
> -Alax for 3 ensembles, Ensemble Modern-Gruppe Hanns Eisler-Ensemble Köln-Bour 1985
> -A l’Ile de Gorée for harpsichord and ensemble, Chojnacka-Ensemble Xenakis-Huub Kerstens* 1986
> -Waarg for flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horn, trumpet, trombone, tuba, 2 violins, viola, cello and bass, ST-X, Asko Ensemble-Asbury 1988
> -Okho for 3 djembes & bass-drum, Rieppi-McEwan-Rozenblatt 1989
> -Echange for bass-clarinet and ensemble, Michael Lowenstern-ST-X Ensemble*, Rubin-ICE 1989
> -Epicycles for solo cello, flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, horn, trumpet, trombone, tuba, 2 violins, viola, bass, Dan Barrett-ST-X, Deforce-Ensemble musikFabrik-Wood 1989
> -A la Mémoire de Lutoslawski for 2 horns and 2 trumpets, ST-X Ensemble 1994
> -Kai for flute, clarinet, bassoon, trumpet, trombone, violin, viola, cello, bass, ST-X 1995
> -Voile for 20 strings, Ensemble Resonanz-Kalitzke 1995
> -Kuilenn for flute, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, ST-X Ensemble 1995
> -Zythos for trombone and 6 percussions, Sluchin-ICE 1996
> -O-Mega for percussion and ensemble, Sluchin-ICE 1997
> 
> Chamber Music
> -ST 4 for SQ, Jack Qt*, Arditti String Qt, Quatuor Bernède 1956-1962
> -Tetras for SQ, Jack Qt*, Arditti Qt 1983
> -Tetora for SQ, Jack Qt*, Arditti String Qt 1990
> -Ergma for SQ, Jack Qt 1994
> 
> -Dhipli-Zyia for violin and cello, Aerts-A.Deforce, Asko Ensemble Members, Paquin-Saiz Vega 1951-1952
> -Analogique A (to be performed with Analogique B), 1958
> -Charisma for clarinet and cello, Damiens-Strauch, Deinzer-Palm, ST X Ensemble, Dieltjens-A.Deforce* 1971
> -Linaia-Agon for horn, trombone and tuba, Kaptijn-Schaeper-Visser 1972
> -Dmaathen for oboe and percussion, Schenken-Glaetzner 1976
> -Dmaathen for flute and percussion, Daroux-Faber 1976
> -Ikhoor for string trio, Arditti String Qt* 1978
> -Dikhtas for violin and piano, Irvine Arditti-Claude Helffer, C.Widmann-Lepper, J.Peters-Aki Takahashi 1979
> -Komboi for percussion and harpsichord, Gualda-Chojnacka 1981
> -Khal Perr for brass quintet and 2 percussions, Wallace Collection 1983
> -Nyuyo, for flute and three guitars, Daroux-Horreaux-Rivet-Trehard 1985
> -Akea for piano and strings, Helffer-Arditti String Qt, Aki Takahashi-The Jack Quartet* 1986
> -Xas for saxophone quartet, Cook-Engebretson-Tracy-Cashman 1987
> -Oophaa for harpsichord and percussion, Chojnacka-Gualda 1989
> -Paille in the Wind for cello and piano, A.Deforce-Vandewalle, R.de Saram-Aki Takahashi 1992
> -Plekto for flute, clarinet, piano, percussion, violin and cello, ST-X Ensemble 1993
> -Ittidra for string sextet, Ensemble Resonanz-Kalitzke 1996
> -Hunem-Iduhey for violin and cello, Aerts-A.Deforce 1996
> -Roscobeck for cello and counterbass, A.Deforce-Leire 1996
> 
> Solo Music
> -Nomos Alpha for cello, R.de Saram, A.Deforce*, Palm 1965-1966
> -Mikka S for violin, Le Dizès, I.Arditti 1971
> -Gmeeoorh for organ, F.Rieumier* 1974
> -Psappha for percussion, Mortensen 1975
> -Theraps for contrabass, J.Eckhardt* 1975-1976
> -Kottos for cello, R.de Saram, A.Deforce* 1977
> -Pleiades for percussion, Kuniko 1978
> -Embellie for viola, G.Knox 1981
> -Keren for trombone, Sluchin* 1986
> -Rebonds A, B for percussion, Kuniko, McEwan* 1988
> 
> Piano Music
> -Six Chansons pour piano, Thomopoulos 1950
> -Trois Pièces inédites, Thomopoulos 1949
> -Herma, Aki Takahashi*, Justin Rubin, Thomopoulos 1961
> -Evryali, Aki Takahashi*, C.Helffer, Thomopoulos 1973
> -Mists, Aki Takahashi*, C.Helffer, Thomopoulos 1981
> -A Ravel, Aki Takahashi, C.Helffer, Thomopoulos 1987
> 
> 
> 
> Harpsichord Music
> -Khoai, Chojnacka 1976
> -Naama, Chojnacka 1984
> 
> 
> Electronic Music
> -Diamorphoses 1957-1958
> -Concret PH 1958
> -Orient-Occident 1960
> -Stratégie 1962
> -Hibiki-Hana-Ma 1969-1970
> -La Légende d’Eer* 1977
> -Mycenae Alpha 1978
> -Pour la Paix for narrator and tape 1981
> -Taurhiphanie 1987
> -Voyage absolu des Unari vers Andromède 1989
> -Gendy 3 1991
> 
> 
> Electro-Acoustic Music
> -Analogiques B for 3 violins, 3 cellos, 3 basses and electronic tape, ST-X, Ensemble Resonanz-Kalitzke 1958-1959
> -Bohor for electroacoustic tape 1962
> -Kraanerg for 23 musicians and tape, Alpha Centauri Ensemble-Roger Woodward, Callithumpian Consort-Drury* 1968
> -Persepolis, Light and Sound with electroacoustic Music* 1971
> -Polytope de Cluny, light and sound with electro-acoustic music 1972
> 
> Vocal Music
> -Zyia for soprano, flute and piano, Camarhina-Cesari-Thomopoulos, Kubler-Daroux-Vassilakis 1952
> -Anastenaria, Bavarian Radio Chorus & SO-Bornstein 1953
> -Polla Ta Dhina, Maîtrise de Notre Dame de Paris-Ensemble instrumental de musique contemporaine de Paris 1962
> -Oresteia, Sakkas-Gualda-Maitrise de Colmar-Ensemble Vocal D’Anjou-Ensemble de Basse Normandie-Debart-Weddle* 1965-1966
> -Medea stage music for men’s choir and instrumental ensemble, New London Chamber Choir-Critical Band-J.Wood 1967
> -Nuits for 12 mixed voices a cappella, New London Chamber Choir-Critical Band-J.Wood, The Norwegian Soloists’ Choir-Oslo Sinfonietta-Pedersen 1967-1968
> -Cendrées for choirs and orchestra, Gulbenkian Foundation Choirs-Orch Nat France-Tabachnik 1973-1974
> -N’Shima for 2 female voices and ensemble, Bartelloni-Renon-Ensemble Instrumental-Tabachnik, Les jeunes Solistes-Safir, Aks-Lindevald-ST-X Ensemble 1975
> -Akanthos for voice and ensemble, Penelope Walmsley-Clark-Spectrum Ensemble*, Arnold-ICE, S.May-St-X Ensemble 1977
> -A Colone for male or female choir and instrumental ensemble, New London Chamber Choir-Critical Band-J.Wood 1977
> -Anemoessa for choir and orchestra, Radio PO & Chorus of the Netherlands-Dufallo 1979
> -Ais for baritone, percussion and orchestra, Sakkas-Daudin-Luxembourg PO-Tamayo, Sakkas-Gualda-BRSO-Tabachnik 1980
> -Serment for mixed choir, New London Chamber Choir-Critical Band-J.Wood 1981
> -Nekuia for mixed chorus and orchestra, Köln Radio Choir & SO-Tabachnik 1981
> -Idmen a+b for percussion ensemble and choir, Percussion Ensemble sixen-Lorent-Choir of the S.Moniuszko Academy of Music-Tomczak 1985
> -Knephas for mixed choir, New London Chamber Choir-Critical Band-J.Wood 1990
> -La Déesse Athena for baritone, solo percussion and ensemble, Philip Larson-Timothy Adams-Carnegie Mellon PO-Izquierdo 1992


I spent some time listening to late Xenakis recently and I found two amazing things, S-709 -- and Gendy3 which you list. I'm also rather fond of the tender O-Mega.

Iannis Xenakis - S.709 - YouTube


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## Mandryka

justekaia said:


> Georg Friedrich Haas (1953)
> 
> Orchestral Music
> -Descendiendo, ORF Radio SO Wien-F.Cerha 1993
> -Violin Concerto no 1, Kovacic-ORF Radio SO Wien-H.Schiff* 1998
> -Natures mortes for large orchestra, SWR SO-Cambreling* 2003
> -Cello Concerto, C.Hagen-BRSO-Baltakas 2004
> -Poème for large orchestra, Cleveland Orch-Welser-Möst* 2005
> -Hyperion-Concerto for light and orchestra, SWR SO-Huber* 2006
> -Piano Concerto, Larcher-Vienna Radio SO-Brabbins 2007
> -Traum in des Sommers Nacht, GOL-Chailly 2009
> -Limited Approximations for 6 tuned pianos and orchestra, SWR SO-Cambreling* 2010
> -Dark Dreams, Estonian Nat SO-Elts* 2013
> -Concerto grosso no 1 for 4 alphorns and orchestra, Hornroh Modern Alphorn Qt-ORF Radio SO Wien-Rundel 2013
> -Concerto grosso no 2 for chamber ensemble and orchestra, Klangforum Wien-ORF Radio SO Wien-Meister 2014
> -Concerto for trombone and orchestra, Svoboda-SWR SO-Perez* 2016
> -Ein kleines symphonisches Gedicht, BPO-Rattle 2017
> -Concerto for percussion and orchestra, Sietzen-Letzeburg PO-Volkov* 2019
> -Joshua Tree, Basel Sinfonietta-Brönnimann* 2020
> -Was mir Beethoven erzählt for violin, contraforte and orch, C.Widmann-L.Dowling-Chamber Orch Basel-Cambreling 2020
> -Ungefähr ganz genau for large orchestra, ORF Radio SO Vienna-Alsop* 2022
> 
> Ensemble Music
> -…Einklang freier Wesen for 10 instruments, Klangforum Wien-Cambreling
> -Nacht-Schatten for ensemble, Klangforum Wien-Cambreling 1988
> -Quasi una Tanpura for chamber ensemble, Klangforum Wien-Furrer 1990-1991
> -Zerstäubungsgewächse for 8 percussion instruments and string quartet, FNHW Music School 1991-2015
> -… double concerto for accordion, viola and chamber ensemble, Schulz-Polisoidis-Klangforum Wien-Cambreling 1994
> -…aus freier Lust…verbunden for bass flute, bass clarinet and two percussions, Collegium Novum Zürich-Poppe 1994-1996
> -Monodie for 18 instruments, Ensemble Modern-Rundel* 1998-1999
> -Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich for percussion and ensemble, Lorenz-Collegium Novum Zürich-Poppe, Schiske-Klangforum Wien-Cambreling 1999
> -Nach-Ruf…Ent-Gleitend…, Ensemble Proton Bern 1999
> -In Vain for 24 instruments, Klangforum Wien-Cambreling* 2000-2002
> -Sodass ich’s hernach mit einem Blick for string orchestra, Kovacic Musicians-Kovacic 2001
> -Open Spaces for 12 string instruments and 2 percussions, Aukso Chamber Orch-Mos* 2007
> -Remix for chamber ensemble, Klangforum Wien-Poppe 2007
> -Ins Licht, Schallfeld Ensemble* 2007
> -Unheimat for 19 string instruments, Radio SO Berlin-M.Hermann 2009
> -Aus-Weg for 8 instruments, Klangforum Wien-Cambreling* 2010
> -Ich suchte aber fand ihn nicht, Ensemble Phoenix Basel-Henneberger 2011
> -Introduktion and Transsonation for 17 instruments and improvisation on audio material by Scelsi, Argento Chamber Ensemble-Galante 2012
> -Anachronism for ensemble, Ensemble Octopus-Gourzi 2013
> -Release, Ensemble Resonanz-Pomarico 2017
> -Solstices for 10 instruments, Riot Ensemble* 2018
> -6 Stücke for Alois Habas for harmonium and ensemble, Beinhauer-Ensemble for New Music Tallinn-Yazdani* 2021
> -Im Schatten der Harfen, Klangforum Wien-Cambreling 2018
> 
> Electro-Acoustic Music
> -Ein Schattenspiel for piano and live electronics, Chen-Hui Jen (piano)-Sudol (electronics) 2004
> -…und… for chamber for ensemble and electronics, SWR Experimentalstudio 2008-2009
> 
> 
> Chamber Music
> -SQ no 1, Kairos Qt* 1997
> -SQ no 2, Kairos Qt 1998
> -SQ no 3, Jack Qt 2003
> -SQ no 4, Neo Qt* 2003
> -SQ no 5, Crash Ensemble
> -SQ no 6, Arditti Qt* 2010
> -SQ no 7, Hagen Qt* 2011
> -SQ no 8, Jack Qt* 2014
> -SQ no 9, Jack Qt 2016
> -SQ no 10, 2016 not recorded yet
> -SQ no 11, 2019 not recorded yet
> -Lair for SQ, Arditti Qt 2014
> -Phantasien for clarinet and viola, Kanasevich-Kelder 1982
> -Sextet for three violas and three cellos, Solistenensemble Kaleidoskop-T.J.Lee 1982
> -Schatten durch unausdenkliche Wälder for 2 pianos and 2 percussions, Makrokosmos Quartet 1992
> -Tria ex uno-Sextet, Ensemble Neuverband 2001-2002
> -Gitarrenquartet, Aleph Quartet 2007
> -Saxophon Quartet, Nois 2014
> -Trombone Octet, Trombone Unit Hannover 2015
> -Equinox for clarinet, cello and piano, Klangforum Wien 2018
> -…wie ein Nachtstück for accordions, Runaway Trio 2020
> -Iguazu Superior antes de descender por la Gargantua del Diablo for percussion quartet and special instruments, Third Coast Percussion 2020
> -Blumenwiese for saxophone, piano and percussion, Trio Accanto 2021
> 
> Solo Music
> -Einklang freier Wesen for trumpet, Blaauw 1994-1996
> -Solo for viola d’amore, Knox 2000
> -In terrae fine for solo violin, Cuckson 2001
> 
> 
> Piano Music for two pianos tuned a quarter-tone apart
> -Hommage à G.Ligeti, M.Kwan*, Formenti 1984
> -Hommage à J.M.Hauer, M.Kwan 1984
> -Hommage à S.Reich, M.Kwan 1984
> 
> Vocal Music
> -7 Klangräume for choir and orchestra, Kuhmeier-Salzburger Bach Choir-Mozarteum Orch Salzburg-Bolton 2005
> -Atthis for soprano and ensemble, Yazdani-Ensemble for New Music Tallinn-Haas 2009
> -Wie stille brannte das Licht for soprano and ensemble, S.Wegener-Musikfabrik-Poppe 2009
> -Dido for soprano and SQ, Chemin-Ensemble Maja 2012
> -3 Stücke for Mollema for chamber choir and chamber orchestra, Rias Kammerchor-Munich Chamber Orch-Liebreich* 2015-2016
> -Hertevig Studien for 6 voices, Nordic Voices 2019
> 
> Opera
> -Bluthaus, Wegener-Hartmann-Katzameier-Gloger-SWR Radio SO Stuttgart-Blunier* 2010-2011
> -Thomas, Katzameier-Newerla-Argento Chamber Ensemble-Galante 2013
> -Morgen und Abend, Wegener-Pohl-Rasker-Royal Opera House Orch-Boder* 2015
> -Koma, Weber-Abele-L.Gong-D.Gloger-Ensemble City Theatre Darmstadt-SWR Radio SO Stuttgart-Stockhammer* 2016
> -Sycorax to be premiered soon
> 
> This is an extract from my archives where the star indicates a favourite work. There are works i have omitted because i am not so fond of them. But it gives you an idea of the body of work i was talking about. All of them are in my collection, but i doubt the press people have heard more than 10 % of all this. Therefore they are not able to fully appreciate his work and its scope. When I said Haas is the Beethoven of our era i meant that he is the dominant living composer, nothing else.It does not make sense to compare music from centuries ago to today's music. I believe each era has to be considered on its own merits and you can pick your favourites. Haas is just my personal favourite of this era. So allow me the hyperboles and the superlatives because they are just the expression of my admiration for the composer. Then as i said you have to listen to his interviews (he is a brilliant mind), to the great podcast the conductor Bas Wiegers is doing about Sycorax.


I wonder why you say he’s the dominant living composer. He seems to have a comfortable position at the centre of the establishment, but so does Rihm, for example. And Dusapin and Sciarrino and . . .


----------



## justekaia

Mandryka said:


> I wonder why you say he’s the dominant living composer. He seems to have a comfortable position at the centre of the establishment, but so does Rihm, for example. And Dusapin and Sciarrino and . . .


the composers you mention are part of a top ten i would fully adhere to; i would add lei liang, saariaho, murail, hosokawa, czernowin and posadas; this selection would be based on fairly objective criteria and i refer to the overall repertoire, to the composition in all or most genres (orchestral, ensemble, chamber, solo, vocal, opera / you will notice the absence of symphonies as apart from the scandinavians few composers create new symphonies), to the presence in concert halls all over the planet, to the cooperation with outstanding performers, to the relevance of the themes tackled by the composers, to a regular production of new innovative works, to the intellectual power of the composer and to his/her presence in the media. Haas is the only one who in my subjective opinion ticks all these boxes.He also straddles the US and Europe which are still the places where innovative classical music is played the most. Asia and Australia are making strong improvements but still have a lot of ground to cover.


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## Prodromides

Just think, justekaia, if you work at Editions Salabert you'd be surrounded by all the Xenakis manuscripts each day!


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## justekaia

Prodromides said:


> Just think, justekaia, if you work at Editions Salabert you'd be surrounded by all the Xenakis manuscripts each day!


i do not work i just enjoy life; try to do the same


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## Mandryka

Has anyone listened to Johannes Schöllhorn?

(I’m quite enjoying this new release 









Johannes Schöllhorn: Sérigraphies, by Zafraan Ensemble, WDR Sinfonieorchester, Staatsphilharmonie Rheinland-Pfalz, DSO Berlin


22 track album




zafraanensemble.bandcamp.com





)


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## justekaia

Sen, by Adrián Demoč Among the young European composers there is the Slovak Adrian Democ (1985) who does not make much noise but has 3 nice albums under his belt. I was particularly impressed by Sen and the producer of the album was so kind to allow me to share it on TC.
The Sen piece is out of the ordinary: it relates to music of the past, but produces a splendid recreation wherein the remnants of an earlier music are being heard.
The composer talks about a fragile balance between soft dynamics and sound which will be allowed to fade out audibly.


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## justekaia

Klaus Lang is an Austrian composer i have followed and admired for more than two decades. His recent work for organ is incredibly powerful and is a testimony to the quality of his oeuvre. His repertoire encompasses nearly every genre and is worthy of a serious exploration.


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## justekaia

Erkki-Sven Tuur (1959) has successfully passed the curse of nine symphonies and delivers another quality symphony with a horn quartet this time. An unusual combination but the composer has more than one trick up his sleeve.


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## justekaia

__
https://soundcloud.com/juste-janulyte%2Fradiance-for-choir-and-live-electronics-2015
juste janulyte's radiance by jauna muzika choir directed by Augustinas


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## tortkis

justekaia said:


> __
> https://soundcloud.com/juste-janulyte%2Fradiance-for-choir-and-live-electronics-2015
> juste janulyte's radiance by jauna muzika choir directed by Augustinas


This is otherworldly. I've been checking the works on the soundcloud site. Monochromatic (same instrument) ensembles can create amazing sound world and always attract me.


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## justekaia

Canticle of Light (1996) by Akira Nishimura, one of the giants of Japanese contemporary. The Tokyo SO is conducted by Akiyama.


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## justekaia

So sei es (2013) ; brilliant piece by Sofia Gubaidulina for violin, db, piano and percussion


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## justekaia

__
https://soundcloud.com/egidija_medeksaite%2Fakasha_ensemble-allegria


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## Artran

Murail, Saariaho and Hosokawa. Maybe Dusapin and Rihm, but I need to listen to them more. I, unfortunately, know many contemporary composers only superficially from a small handful of their works.

Not sure about Haas... I was smashed by In Vain and Hyperion, but I don't see a lot of development in his later works. His soundscapes are always fascinating, though.


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## justekaia

mesmerizing music by Hawai native Anne Leilehua Lanzilotti (1983), called "With eyes the color of time" (2020) in eight parts for string orchestra performed by the String Orchestra of Brooklyn conducted by Eli Spindel


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## justekaia

my teacher started this thread and at some point requested me to revive it after a long hiatus; he considers i have been successful and has requested me to focus on other topics; i have a lot of respect for my teacher and will therefore end my contribution to this thread; i am immensely grateful for the support given but believe it was not equivalent to the efforts i have put into this historic thread


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## justekaia

i could but i will not continue the most important thread on TC: i appeal to the great young minds


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## justekaia

Ying Wang (1976) was born in Shanghai and is the daughter of the great modern composer Xilin Wang. She has however chosen a more adventurous route and she combines Chinese sounds with European in her contemporary music.


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## justekaia

Semaa (1994), an exotic composition by Azerbajaini composer Rahilia Hasanova (1951).


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## justekaia

Parallax (2019-2020), a powerful and innovating orchestral composition by female Spanish composer Lula Romero (1976).


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## justekaia

Sila's (2014) from John Luther Adams. An hour long piece which fully corroborates the view that art must be an experience that changes the perspectives of the audience.


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## justekaia

White Interment (Burial of a corpse) from 2002 by Victoria Poleva is a Chamber Symphony for oboe and strings.


----------



## justekaia

It has been a banner year for contemporary classical in terms of compositions and concerts. We have all discovered new composers, so it is time t take stock and i am pleased to share with you the composers i personally value. So here goes my updated list of contemporary composers. I consider that contemporary music starts in 1960. So these composers have works after this date.Enjoy.
Contemporary Classical Composers after WW II

-Argentina: Alberto Ginastera (1916-1983)_, Osvaldo Golijov (1960)_, Mauricio Kagel* (1931-2008)
-Armenia: Avet Terterian (1929-1994), Tigran Mansourian (1939)*
-Australia: Brett Dean (1961)*, Chris Dench (1953), Liza Lim (1966), Peter Sculthorpe (1929-2014)*, Carl Vine (1953)*
-Austria: Peter Ablinger (1959), Friedrich Cerha (1926)*, Georg Friedrich Haas (1953)*_, Bernhard Lang (1957), Klaus Lang (1971)_, Thomas Larcher (1963)*, Wolfgang Mitterer (1958), Olga Neuwirth (1968)*
-Azerbaijan: Franghiz Ali-Sadeh (1947)_, Rahilia Hasanova (1951)*_
-Belgium: Stefan Prins (1979)*
-Brazil: Jose Antonio De Almeida Prado (1943-2010)*, Michelle Agnes Magalhaes (1979)
-Bulgaria: Dobrinka Tabakova (1980)*
-Cambodia: Chinary Ung (1942)*
-Canada: Martin Arnold (1959), Taylor Brook (1985), Zosha Di Castri (1985), Nicole Lizée (1973)_, Cassandra Miller (1976)_, Marjan Mozetich (1948), Raymond Murray Schafer (1933-2021)_, Linda Catlin Smith (1957)_, Marc Sabat (1965)*, Ann Southam (1937-2010)*, Claude Vivier (1948-1983)*
-China: Qigang Chen (1951)_, Yi Chen (1953), Du Yun (1977), Ge Gan-Ru (1954), Lei Liang (1972), Huang Ruo (1976), Bright Sheng (1955), Tan Dun (1957)_, Ying Wang (1976)_, Zhou Long (1953)_, Zhou Tian (1981)
-Colombia: Carolina Noguera (1979)
-Croatia: Mirela Ivicevic (1980)
-Cuba: Leo Brouwer (1939)**
-Cyprus: Yannis Kyriakides (1969)*
-Czech Republic: Ondrej Adamek (1979)*_, Victor Kalabis (1923-2006)_, Krystof Maratka (1972), Martin Smolka (1959)
-Denmark: Hans Abrahamsen (1952)*, Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen (1932-2016), Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996)*, Per Norgard (1932)*, Poul Ruders (1949), Bent Sorensen (1958)*, Simon Steen-Andersen (1976)**
-England: Thomas Ades (1971)*, Julian Anderson (1967), Natasha Barrett (1982)*, Richard Barrett (1959)*, Sally Beamish (1956), George Benjamin (1960)*_, Harrison Birtwistle (1934-2022)_*, Charlotte Bray (1982), Gavin Bryars (1943)*, Cornelius Cardew (1936-1981)*, Anna Clyne (1980), Edward Cowie (1943), Laurence Crane (1961)*_, Peter Maxwell Davies (1934-2016)*, Tansy Davies (1973), Brian Ferneyhough (1943)*, Michael Finnissy (1946)*, Alexander Goehr (1932) , Philip Grange (1956), Bryn Harrison (1969)*, Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012)*, Sam Hayden (1968), Kenneth Hesketh (1968), Simon Holt (1959), Martin Iddon (1975), Kenneth Leighton (1928-1988), Colin Matthews (1946), David Matthews (1943)*_*, Joseph Phibbs (1974), John Pickard (1963)*, Naomi Pinnock (1979), Rebecca Saunders (1967)*, Robert Simpson (1921-1997), Howard Skempton (1947), Ronald Stevenson (1928-2015), John Tavener (1949-2013), Michael Tippett (1905-1998), Mark-Anthony Turnage (1960)*, Judith Weir (1954), Hugh Wood (1932-2021)
-Estonia: Rene Eespere (1953), Tönu Körvits (1969), Arvo Pärt (1935)*, Urmas Sisask (1960), Lepo Sumera (1950-2000), Veljo Tormis (1930-2017), Helena Tulve (1972), Erkki-Sven Tuur (1959)*
-Faroe : Sunleif Rasmussen (1961)
-Finland: Kalevi Aho (1949)*, Einar Englund (1916-1999), Sebastian Fagerlund (1972), Paavo Heininen (1938-2022), Joonas Kokkonen (1921-1996), Magnus Lindberg (1958)*_, Pehr Henrik Nordgren (1944-2008), Einojuhani Rautavaara (1928-2016), Kaija Saariaho (1954)* , Aullis Sallinen (1935)_, Esa-Pekka Salonen (1958), Jukka Tiensuu (1948)
-France: Gilbert Amy (1936), Mark André (1964)*, Alain Bancquart (1934), François Bayle (1932)*_, Franck Bedrossian (1972), Karol Beffa (1973), Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010)*, Pierre Boulez (1925-2016)*_, Edith Canat de Chizy (1950), Bernard Cavanna (1951)_, Guillaume Connesson (1970)_, Pascale Criton (1954), Marc-André Dalbavie (1961)_, Francis Dhomont ( 1926)*, Hugues Dufourt (1943)*, Pascal Dusapin (1955)*_, Henri Dutilleux (1916-2013)*, Jean-Claude Eloy (1938), Thierry Escaich (1965), Luc Ferrari (1929-2005), Jean-Louis Florentz (1947-2004), Olivier Greif (1950-2000), Gérard Grisey ( 1936-1998)*_, Philippe Hurel (1955), Michael Levinas (1949), Ivo Malec (1925-2019), Philippe Manoury (1952)_, Bruno Mantovani (1974)_, Yan Maresz (1961)_, Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)*, Marc Monnet (1947)*_, Tristan Murail (1948)*, Maurice Ohana (1913-1992), Bernard Parmegiani (1927-2013)*, Eliane Radigue (1932)*, Thierry Pécou (1965)* , Jean-Claude Risset (1938-2016), Yann Robin (1974), Philippe Schoeller (1957), Eric Tanguy (1968)_
-Georgia: Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)*
-Germany: Carola Bauckholt (1959)_, Nikolaus Brass (1949), Heiner Goebbels (1952)_, Friedrich Goldmann (1941-2009)_, Hans-Werner Henze (1926-2012)*, Adriana Hölszky (1953), Eva-Maria Houben (1955), Helmut Lachenmann (1935)*, Isabel Mundry (1963)*_*, Matthias Pintscher (1971), Enno Poppe (1969)*, Wolfgang Rihm (1952)*, Peter Ruzicka (1948), Mathias Spahlinger (1944), Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007)*, Wolfgang Von Schweinitz (1953)_, Hans Tutschku (1966), Jörg Widmann (1973)_* , Bernd Alois Zimmermann (1918-1970)*
-Greece: George Aperghis (1945)*, Konstantia Gourzi (1962), Panayiotis Kokoras (1974), Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)*
-Hungary: Peter Eötvös (1944)*, Gyorgy Kurtag (1926)*_, Gyorgi Ligeti (1923-2006) **_
-Iceland: Atli Ingolfsson (1962), Thuridur Jonsdottir (1967), Anna Thorvaldsdottir (1977)**
-Iran: Elnaz Seyedi (1982)
-Ireland: Gerald Barry (1952), Donnacha Dennehy (1970), Elizabeth Maconchy (1907-1994)*
-Israel: Chaya Czernowin (1957)***, Yair Klartag (1985), Shulamit Ran (1949)
-Italy: Luciano Berio (1925-2003)*, Pierluigi Billone (1960), Franco Donatoni (1927-2000), Ivan Fedele (1953)*, Luca Francesconi (1956)*, Stefano Gervasoni (1962), Clara Iannotta (1983), Luigi Nono (1924-1990)*_, Fausto Romitelli (1963-2004)*, Lucia Ronchetti (1963), Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)*, Salvatore Sciarrino (1947)*, Marco Stroppa (1959), Francesca Verunelli (1979)_
-Japan: Dai Fujikura (1977)_, Toshio Hosokawa (1955)_*, Misato Mochizuki (1969), Akira Nishimura (1953)* , Toru Takemitsu (1930-1996)*_, Takashi Yoshimatsu (1953), Joji Yuasa (1929)_
-Korea: Unsuk Chin (1961)** , Younghi Pagh-Paan (1945), Isang Yun (1917-1995)*
-Latvia: Peteris Vasks (1946)*
-Lithuania: Juste Janulyte (1982)*, Egidija Medeksaite (1979)*, Onute Narbutaite (1956)_, Zibuokle Martinaityte (1973)**_
-Mexico: Julio Estrada (1943), Arturo Fuentes (1975), Victor Ibarra (1978), Mario Lavista (1943-2021)_, Hilda Paredes (1957)_
-Netherlands: Peter Adriaansz (1966)*, Simeon ten Holt (1923-2012), Louis Andriessen (1939-2021)*, Michel Van der Aa (1970)*
-New Zealand: Eve de Castro-Robinson (1956), Denis Smalley (1946)***
-Norway: Eivind Buene (1973), Arne Nordheim (1931-2010)**
-Peru: Juan Arroyo (1981)*
-Poland: Hendryk Gorecki (1933-2010)_, Witold Lutoslawski (1913-1994), Krzysztof Meyer (1943)*, Andrzej Panufnik (1914-1991)**, Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)*, Joanna Wozny (1973), Agata Zubel (1978)_
-Portugal: Emmanuel Nunes (1941-2012), Joao Pedro Oliveira (1959)_, Jaime Reis (1983)_
-Puerto Rico : Angelica Negron (1981), Roberto Sierra (1953)
-Romania: Maia Ciobanu (1952)_, Iancu Dumitrescu (1944), Horatiu Radulescu (1942-2008)**_, Doina Rotaru (1951), Roman Vlad (1982)
-Russia: Sergey Akhunov (1967), Vyacheslav Artyomov (1940)*, Edison Denisov (1929-1996), Alissa Firsova (1986), Sofia Gubaidulina (1931)*, Vera Ivanova (1977), Marina Khorkova (1981)*, Nikolai Korndorf (1947-2001), Vladimir Martynov (1946), Alexander Raskatov (1953), Elena Rykova (1991), Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)*, Rodion Shchedrin (1932), Boris Tishchenko (1939-2010) , Galina Ustvolskaya (1919-2006)**
-Scotland: James Dillon (1950)**_, Helen Grime (1981)_, Alistair Hinton (1950)_, Oliver Knussen (1952-2018), James MacMillan (1959)_
-Serbia: Milica Djordjevic (1984)*
-Slovakia: Adrian Democ (1985)*, Vladimir Godar (1956)
-Slovenia: Nina Senk (1982)
-South Africa: Priaulx Rainier (1903-1986)_, Kevin Volans (1947)*_
-Spain: Francisco Coll (1985)_, Gustavo Diaz-Jerez (1970)_, Roberto Gerhard (1896-1970), Francisco Guerrero (1951-1997)_, Jose Manuel Lopez Lopez (1956), Joan Mangrane (1988), Elena Mendoza (1973), Hector Parra (1976)*, Alberto Posadas (1967)*_, Lula Romero (1976), Mauricio Sotelo (1961)*
-Sweden: Ellen Arkbro (1990), Malin Bang (1974), Anders Hillborg (1954)*, Allan Pettersson (1911-1980)*_, Ylva Skog (1963), Lisa Streich (1985), Andrea Tarrodi (1981)*_
-Switzerland: Dieter Ammann (1962)_, Richard Dubugnon (1968), Jürg Frey (1953)_, Beat Furrer (1954)*, Klaus Huber (1924-2017)*, Michael Jarrell (1958), Helena Winkelman (1974)
-Turkey: T.Ercetin (1983)*
-Ukraine: Leonid Desyatnikov (1955), Victoria Poleva (1962), Valentin Silvestrov (1937)*
-United States: John Coolidge Adams (1947)** , John Luther Adams (1953)*_ , Lera Auerbach (1973) , Milton Babbitt (1916-2011), Mason Bates(1977), John Cage (1912-1992)*, Robert Carl (1954), Richard Carrick (1971), Elliott Carter (1908-2012)*, Christopher Cerrone (1984)*, Anthony Cheung (1982), John Chowning (1934), Gloria Coates (1938)*, John Corigliano (1938), George Crumb (1929)*, Sebastian Currier (1953), Bryce Dessner (1976)*, Alexandra du Bois (1981),William Duckworth (1943-2012), Julius Eastman (1940-1990)_, Jason Eckardt (1971) , Robert Erickson (1917-1997), Mohammed Fairouz (1985)* , Morton Feldman (1926-1987)*, George Flynn (1937)*_, Peter Garland (1952), Stacy Garrop (1969), Randy Gibson (1978), Philip Glass (1937), Michael Gordon (1956), John Harbison (1938), Lou Harrison (1917-2003)*, Michael Harrison (1959)*, Jake Heggie (1961), Sarah Hennies (1979), Michael Hersch (1971)*, Jennifer Higdon (1962)*, Alan Hovhaness (1911-2000), Dennis Johnson (1938), Tom Johnson (1938), Ben Johnston (1926-2019)_, Aaron Jay Kernis (1960)_, Catherine Lamb (1982), David Lang (1957), Libby Larsen (1950), Hannah Lash (1981), Benjamin Lees (1924-2010), Lowell Liebermann (1961), Alvin Lucier (1931-2021), Andrew McIntosh (1985), Ingram Marshall (1942-2022)*, Sky Macklay (1988), James Matheson (1970), Missy Mazzoli (1980) , Meredith Monk (1942)*, Jessie Montgomery (1981), Nico Muhly (1981), Andrew Norman (1979)*, Pauline Oliveros (1932-2016)*, Tristan Perich (1982), Vincent Persichetti (1915-1987), Kory Reeder (1993), Steve Reich (1936)*, Roger Reynolds (1935)*, Terry Riley (1935)*, Ned Rorem (1923), Frederic Rzewski (1937-2021)*, Joseph Schwantner (1943), Laura Schwendinger (1962), Ralph Shapey (1921-2002)*, Elliott Sharp (1952), Caroline Shaw (1982), Arlene Sierra (1970), Gabriella Smith (1991)*, Kate Soper (1981), Tyshawn Sorey (1980), Steven Stucky (1949-2016), Ellen Taaffe-Zwilich (1939), James Tenney (1934-2006), Christopher Theofanidis (1967), Augusta Read Thomas (1964), Michael Torke (1961), Joan Tower (1938)*, George Tsontakis (1951), Julia Wolfe (1958)*, Christian Wolff (1934), Scott Wollschleger (1980), Charles Wuorinen (1938-2020), La Monte Young (1935)**_
Once again i see that the stars i have given to the composers are not represented correctly in the list that TC gives you. So plse disregard the stars.


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## Mandryka

Someone asked me to say which new recordings this year I’ve enjoyed the most. And the one which was the obvious choice was Erik Drescher’s Kairos release of music by Peter Ablinger, it’s called Against Nature. It’s streaming everywhere. I’ve always had a soft spot for Peter Ablinger, and this is possibly his most rewarding recording for me.


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## Mandryka

Another new release by a living composer which is special for me is slightly more sensual, by Jürg Frey. It’s a four movement piece called L’état de simplicité on a recording called Borderline Melodies. Like all music, you have to be in the mood, but when I am, it touches the spot.


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## composingmusic

A couple to consider adding to the Finland section: Sebastian Fagerlund and Lotta Wennäkoski?


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## justekaia

composingmusic said:


> A couple to consider adding to the Finland section: Sebastian Fagerlund and Lotta Wennäkoski?


Fagerlund is already included in the Finland section. I will listen to Lotta and revert. Thks for posting.


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## composingmusic

justekaia said:


> Fagerlund is already included in the Finland section. I will listen to Lotta and revert. Thks for posting.


Ah yes, I can see that re. Fagerlund. Great!


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## justekaia

Polish composer Wojcieh Kilar's (1932-2013) mighty third symphony (2003) by the Symphonic Philharmonic Narodowej conducted by Antoni Wit.


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