# Hi everyone,to become a composer (i need some advice)



## justsomestranger

Hi everyone, firstly, I'm really sorry for my very very bad english, for those who have to read my painful grammar, ...

now, i'm study as an architecture, but music is always my biggest hobby, so i hope someday i can become a (hobby) composer i guess . I'm played guitar for several years (5 years or more) but i never had any serious music lesson and i thought that somehow it made me cant improve myself more in playing guitar, i heard people said that you need to learn piano or keyboard if you need to be a good composer, is that true? it would be late for me to start learing piano now (i'm 23 years old), and what should i do to improve my compose skill? start learning with music theory by book? participate in music class? find a good teacher? is ear hearing skill is training or congenital? ... my apologies, so much thing to ask, i hope its not annoy to you 

here is my very first composed piece, just finished it today and i would be happy to hear yours advice and feedback, i made it in guitar pro 5, i keep it in midi file, because the sound after i convert to mp3 or something else is really awful (i also want to ask the software that you use to compose orchestral piece, cause gp5 is only software that i know, is sibelius ok?)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3o3aab2bjvrqxss/Theforest(demo).mid

thank for your advice


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## Crudblud

I found the piece you posted rather bland, monotonous, bloated. It's a big meal, but it all tastes the same, and for me personally the taste is not that pleasant to begin with. For the time being you should probably stick to short pieces of, say, two to three minutes' duration, I think seven minutes is simply too much for you at the moment. Get good before you get big.

To become a composer: compose, compose, compose, compose, compose, compose, compose. The more you compose, the more your intuition and craft develop, the more comfortable you become as a composer, the more natural the process of composition becomes, the more ambitious you can afford to be, etc. You can read _x_ number of books, treatises, tutorials, whatever, and that's fine, but unless you're actually composing and thinking about what you're composing, you're not going to be a composer, and you're not going to develop a composer's intuition and craft, which is what you need to develop if you want to be good at composing. Sit and think about everything you compose, try to understand why it works or why it doesn't, refine it if you can, use the knowledge you gain in your next piece. It doesn't matter how you compose or what you compose, just that you compose, so get out of here and compose as much as you can.


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## justsomestranger

Crudblud said:


> I found the piece you posted rather bland, monotonous, bloated. It's a big meal, but it all tastes the same, and for me personally the taste is not that pleasant to begin with. For the time being you should probably stick to short pieces of, say, two to three minutes' duration, I think seven minutes is simply too much for you at the moment. Get good before you get big.
> 
> To become a composer: compose, compose, compose, compose, compose, compose, compose. The more you compose, the more your intuition and craft develop, the more comfortable you become as a composer, the more natural the process of composition becomes, the more ambitious you can afford to be, etc. You can read _x_ number of books, treatises, tutorials, whatever, and that's fine, but unless you're actually composing and thinking about what you're composing, you're not going to be a composer, and you're not going to develop a composer's intuition and craft, which is what you need to develop if you want to be good at composing. Sit and think about everything you compose, try to understand why it works or why it doesn't, refine it if you can, use the knowledge you gain in your next piece. It doesn't matter how you compose or what you compose, just that you compose, so get out of here and compose as much as you can.


thank you so much for reply, actually its my first time to do compose, this piece is like an accident, as usual day, i often think about some small lick and play it on my guitar, but the other day, instead i try to put it on sheet, and on and on, it make me keep write down to finish the song but not for something as you say "Sit and think about everything you compose", i actually didnt have "a purpose" from the beginning, during my composing, i keep asking myself "there's something wrong,its sound seem fine but not that i want, how long does it take? when can i finish it?" but i must finish it even it turn out to be bad, cause its my first piece ...

thank you for clarify my mind, and for the last "so get out of here and compose as much as you can" that doesnt mean i cant get your advice in my next piece, right  ? i hope i'm not annoying you guys


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## Crudblud

Come back for advice if you feel it is necessary, but understand that ultimately you are going to have to rely on instinct, no one else can really tell you if your work is good or not, it's something you have to realise for yourself. But don't worry, all this will come to you in good time, the important thing for now is just to compose and keep composing, and learn from your experiences.


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## Matsps

You don't have to learn piano to compose. Reading music theory books is probably a good start though. I read a great piece of advice once actually (I think from a composer who does film/TV scores, but their name escapes me atm...). Learn music theory then forget it all. I also think that the more you can be around music, the better. Listening to music, playing music, learning music, maybe joining a band and of course, spending time improvising and composing.


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## Mahlerian

If you're going to base a piece on a single ostinato (or riff), you can't make it very long, or you end up losing your listeners' attention very quickly.

The instrument choices seem quite arbitrary, and you need to change the harmonic progression more often (adding more notes doesn't remove the sense that nothing is happening, which is a killer). Also, it doesn't end in any real way, it just sort of stops.

I agree with Crudblud; you should start by writing shorter pieces. Even 2-3 minutes might be a little long for a beginner. Try to compose something that's about a minute long, put in enough variety to fill that minute, and make sure that it feels like it ends. That might be pretty challenging at first, but you will get the hang of it if you work at it.


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## justsomestranger

thank you, as a beginner, in my opinion, i think many people would (or by accident) start with the big one, which can challenge and (maybe) make they feel like "oh, i'm good", unfortunately i'm the one. My piece above, at first, i just intend to do it in about 30 tab, and as you see, it become more then 160 in the end. its my first big one and also big failure, i think i learnd a lot from it, i will start with short piece right away.


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## justsomestranger

i dont know how to edit my post but i also want to say want more thing that my piece actually 8'46'' long not 7', and it seem like you have missed it after hearing the "sort of stops". thank you


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## BurningDesire

I agree with Crudblud and Mahlerian, however I do think there are some nice musical ideas going on in this piece. Some nice changes in texture that I think could be fairly effective with a little refinement of everything else. Though its not a good piece, its not bad for a first effort, and I strongly encourage you to continue writing. I definitely agree with their advice to start with smaller lengths, and really branching out harmonically. I would add that its a good idea to listen to alot of music by great composers, and to listen very carefully and try and figure out why the music works as well as it does. Figure out what the composers are doing harmonically, how melodies interact, how they use instruments, how the form of the piece works and the direction and trajectory of the music. This will help you alot, even if what you're doing is entirely by ear and instinct, you can still learn from others' music.


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## eilrahc

Seconding that you don't need to learn piano to compose.. although this largely depends on the kind of music you plan to write. I am also in the early stages of composing but I came to writing instrumental music after learning electronic and electroacoustic music so things like gestural shapes and trajectory of sound energy are much more important to me than four part voice leading, counterpoint, etc. I do everything at the computer- I could not compose at the piano even if I wanted to!

My advice would be to consider writing with the kind of music that you CAN write given your current abilities and where you can reasonably take them. Good luck to both of us!


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## justsomestranger

my second piece, hope its not waste your time  
http://www.mediafire.com/download/te7jo1ri7kir9ja/Meetings+under+the+moon.mid


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## Richannes Wrahms

Music theory and training has the advantage that is allows you to name the different elements of music (intervals, vertical and horizontal intervallic relations, relative movement of melodic lines, chords, harmonic progressions, etc) and associate them to their sound which tends to accelerate the process of composing. I remember Schoenberg making a similar point somewhere in his 'Harmonielehre'. 

I particularly advocate for Fux's and Schoenberg's books because they encourage the student to (sort of) compose from the very beginning, pay attention at every detail of the compositions and judge their own decisions and diversions. I also advocate for the more or less objective intervallic approach of Persichetti's book which catalogues and gives a good insight about twentieth century techniques and modern musical thinking. 

But the most important thing, as the posters above have remarked so well, is not to give up. Keep composing and learn from it (and from other composers).


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## Ian Moore

I really don't downloading things on mediafire - I have bad experiences. Do you have another link?


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## justsomestranger

Ian Moore said:


> I really don't downloading things on mediafire - I have bad experiences. Do you have another link?


i'm sorry, i wrote everything on guitar pro, i'm not working with other render music program, so the best layout i can do is a MIDI file, and i think mediafire is safe enough than other unknown midi website, sorry for inconvenience.

By the way, this is my third piece and i think i have improve a little bit since the last time i'm here, i really want to hear your opinion about this piece. (and can you recommend me some good render music program?)

Thank for your advice, hope its not waste your time 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vzd6pnsbflbf1z5/Castle+Stories.mid


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## justsomestranger

my next work  
http://www.mediafire.com/download/uc1b68yb3u9e2tw/Asia+Flow.mid

thank for your advice, hope its not waste your time


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## justsomestranger

http://www.mediafire.com/download/2095542qq00m307/On+a+Clear+Day.mid

the song that i wrote about half year ago, nothing new but for me it's a little difference from the rest of my work.
thank for your advice, hope it's not waste your time


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## dzc4627

these piece seem to rely on a single background and feel like video game music. if that is what you are going for, than consider these pieces successful. though, if you are looking to try and create performance pieces, try some variation and not an omnipotent reliance on the same chord progression.


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## justsomestranger

Hi everyone, it's me again, and sorry for my very very bad english, again.

I moved to Japan to doing my graduate course and since then, i dont have much time to compose, and it really killing me inside everyday. Moreover, these "artificial sound" on guitar pro (i dont know how to use other program yet) also lead me to gave up compose for awhile. (it's not like i hate that sound or something but it's still a thing)

So recently, i decided to learn other music compose program to write music again, and this is my first try with fl studio.
i hope it's not so bad, and would be nice if i have yours feedback.

Sorry for bad sound quality, i still dont know how to handle with output sounds, video .. and tons of other acoustics things i have to learn.

Thank you for your time.







dzc4627 said:


> these piece seem to rely on a single background and feel like video game music. if that is what you are going for, than consider these pieces successful. though, if you are looking to try and create performance pieces, try some variation and not an omnipotent reliance on the same chord progression.


I really like game music, but i actually want to compose somethings other than game music, to learn about variety of music genre, however no matter how i try to do it, everytime it came out like a game music. So i guess maybe i have to star over from the beginning ? things that i lack like music theory or compose technique...


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## Vasks

This site is Talk Classical. This selection has nothing to do with Classical (old or new). You probably should post on another website devoted to Pop oriented music if you want proper feedback.


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## nikola

justsomestranger said:


> So recently, i decided to learn other music compose program to write music again, and this is my first try with fl studio.
> i hope it's not so bad, and would be nice if i have yours feedback.
> 
> Sorry for bad sound quality, i still dont know how to handle with output sounds, video .. and tons of other acoustics things i have to learn.
> 
> Thank you for your time.


This is pretty much interesting composition. I like it very much.



Vasks said:


> This site is Talk Classical. This selection has nothing to do with Classical (old or new). You probably should post on another website devoted to Pop oriented music if you want proper feedback.


I don't think this board is only for classical music composers. Also, how can we define what classical music really is? On this board we have section for non-classical music, so of course it is allowed to post any kind of music here and even more considering that many of you post pieces that are actually nowhere near to the term of "classical music".


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## justsomestranger

Vasks said:


> This site is Talk Classical. This selection has nothing to do with Classical (old or new). You probably should post on another website devoted to Pop oriented music if you want proper feedback.


i can understand why you said that, and sorry for wrong post too. But if you look at my previous pieces, you can see how hard i try to compose "classical" music as much as i can. 
Since i dont have nice classical sound pack and FL studio provided pretty nice electrical sound pack (sound good with basic sound pack) so i tried with different kind of music.


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## Vasks

OK, so this part of Talk Classical is for all styles of music. 

All rightee then. 

Let's make sure that contributors are encouraged to post Punk, Rock, Grunge, New Wave, Blues, Children’s Music, Commercial Music, Country, Bluegrass, Gospel, Electronica, Jazz, Rap, etc, etc. Because afterall, the title of this Forum area is "Today's Composer". It doesn't say "Today's Classical Composers".

So I stand corrected.


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## nikola

Well, you posted some kind of movie music as I can remember and it was quite a good piece, but I don't think that John Williams is considered to be a classical composer


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## Vasks

nikola said:


> Well, you posted some kind of movie music as I can remember and it was quite a good piece, but I don't think that John Williams is considered to be a classical composer


You called it "movie" music. I call it Art Music and its been performed several times this year by real orchestras....you know the kind that also play Beethoven and Tchaikovsky. And yes, John Williams has written serious concert music besides film scores.


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## nikola

Ok, no need for butthurt. I'm just saying that it's not so easy to categorize what classical is and what it isn't. Art music is everything.... as long as it doesn't suck. What justsomestranger composed (his latest piece) could easily fall into 'classical music' category if it was done with some instruments that don't sound so cheesy. We consider even Brahms 'Lullaby' to be classical music even though it's more in pop form (verse-chorus) than anything we can hear on this board.


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## Vasks

I'm sorry if I hurt your butt...I didn't mean too 

But I do get rankled if anyone considers anything of mine "movie music"


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## StephenBailey

I'd like to weigh in on how to actually become better at composing, if I may.
There are only two things to do:

1. Listen to music. Not as you do something else (though there's value in that as well) but real, concerted, deliberate listening.
2. Write music. As much as you possibly can.

Teachers and books are great and can help a lot. But there is no substitute for these two things.


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