# Tebaldi and Obratzsova Suicidio Contest



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tebaldi was famous for her Gioconda. As a mezzo I don't know if Elena could sing the whole role but I've always wanted to hear a mezzo do this low lying aria and she doesn't disappoint me.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

La Gioconda was the only opera I saw at the Met. Because I love chest singing and because I love drama this is one of my top 5 favorite arias. Ponselle and Callas duke it out vying for best version in my little world, but for I love Tebaldi in this and just discovered Obratzsova, who blew me away. Both are great but I will keep going back to the beautiful ( she looks like Melania Trump) Obratzsova because of the sheer amplitude of her gorgeous sound and her over the top performance. Her chest notes rival Callas and THAT is saying something!!! I heard a radio broadcast of Tebaldi late in her career at the Met in Gioconda and she was simply terrific!!!!!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Both URLs are Tebaldi. Here's Obraztsova:






I prefer Tebaldi despite some effortful high notes. I never did care for Ethel Merman.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I grew up with a highlights LP of *La Gioconda* with Callas and that has been my benchmark for this aria.

I've never liked Obratsova's unfocused sound - her overtones have overtones! Tebaldi, with her realigned voice does the aria full justice.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Tebaldi for me, but Callas and Ponselle still remain tops in this aria. Neither Tebaldi, nor Obraztsova attempt much of a change of colour at _E un di leggiadre_ and they are clumsy when it comes to the turn on _volavan_. Still, as far as I'm concerned. Tebaldi makes the pleasanter sound despite some strain at the top. Obraztsova always sounds as if she is shouting at me!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks for playing. I am I think alone in my love of Obratzsova, but it is not the first time my tastes clash with the cognoscenti. Woodduck, you amuse me LOL. I have some more planned of these including a Depuis le jour contest, one of my favorite arias. This encourages me. I will stick to the divas likely as that is my speciality.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Tebaldi for me, but Callas and Ponselle still remain tops in this aria. Neither Tebaldi, nor Obraztsova attempt much of a change of colour at _E un di leggiadre_ and they are clumsy when it comes to the turn on _volavan_. Still, as far as I'm concerned. Tebaldi makes the pleasanter sound despite some strain at the top. Obraztsova always sounds as if she is shouting at me!


I am at a disadvantage to you and others in my ignorance of the libretto and the language. I admire your facility in these areas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I am at a disadvantage to you and others in my ignorance of the libretto and the language. I admire your facility in these areas.


You don't need to know the language, but if you follow along with a libretto, I'm sure you will hear the moment I'm talking about. After the stentorian opening with its plunges into chest register, she sings _E un dì leggiadre volavan l'ore_ (once upon a time the hours flew gaily by) and both Ponselle and Callas lighten their tone, bringing a smile into their voices. There is a slight change in Tebaldi's tone, but the little turn when sings _Volavan l'ore_ is a bit clumsy and it doesn't have the grace of Ponselle or Callas. Obraztsova just continues to sing out loudly and the moment passes without any change of mood at all.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Obraztsova could have allowed for more variety in her singing, which is totally dark, intense and somewhat tiring. I do prefer her in such roles as Santuzza which I heard live several times and it was a mindblowing experience (no pun intended).
Never been fan of Tebaldi, her high notes are always a bit of a jump-scare for me and while I have many of her performances I learned to... umm... skip the most glaring moments of "stratosfear" singing.
All in all, Callas is a benchmark "Suicidio" and neither lady comes close.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Like those commenting before me, Callas and Ponselle are my go to singers in this aria. (Caballe and Cerquetti are runners up and bring some fine things to this moment, but they are quite far behind Maria and Rosa.)

I can't think of any other singers that I have heard in this aria and that I've enjoyed their performance.

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

To be fair, Obratsova sounds a bit better in the theater, as the mic tends to exaggerate the flaws in her voice - as if taking a microscope to a specimen. We heard her in SF in the mid-seventies, as Azucena in *Il Trovatore *and the Principessa de Boullion in *Adriana Lecouvreur*, not subtle roles. She did make a marked impression.

In the nineties we heard her as the Zia Principessa in *Suor Angelica*, by which time the flaws were quite apparent without a microphone. It was always a big, blowsy instrument, bluntly delivered.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I voted for Tebaldi, Obrazstova is oversinging here.

Also, does anyone else think that the turgid conducting on her video sounds more Tchaikovsky than Ponchielli?

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> I voted for Tebaldi, Obrazstova is oversinging here.
> 
> Also, does anyone else think that the turgid conducting on her video sounds more Tchaikovsky than Ponchielli?
> 
> N.


The conducting certainly didn't help.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

MAS said:


> To be fair, Obratsova sounds a bit better in the theater, as the mic tends to exaggerate the flaws in her voice - as if taking a microscope to a specimen. We heard her in SF in the mid-seventies, as Azucena in *Il Trovatore *and the Principessa de Boullion in *Adriana Lecouvreur*, not subtle roles. She did make a marked impression.
> 
> In the nineties we heard her as the Zia Principessa in *Suor Angelica*, by which time the flaws were quite apparent without a microphone. It was always a big, blowsy instrument, bluntly delivered.


I was just wondering whether I had any recordings of her that I liked and the only one I actually have is the Adriana Lecouvreur and I like her performance of that role. I also have a live Pique Dame where she is the Countess and, of course she's perfect for that role.

I don't think I have any of her other recordings, but that's not because I 've been avoiding her, it's a case of avoiding some of the other singers in her sets!

N.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

The Conte said:


> I was just wondering whether I had any recordings of her that I liked and the only one I actually have is the Adriana Lecouvreur and I like her performance of that role. I also have a live Pique Dame where she is the Countess and, of course she's perfect for that role.
> 
> I don't think I have any of her other recordings, but that's not because I 've been avoiding her, it's a case of avoiding some of the other singers in her sets!
> 
> N.


I can't imagine her as Giovanna Seymour (*Anna Bolena) * or Charlotte ( *Werther*) or even Santuzza (*Cavalleria Rusticana*) or *Carmen*, she seems so much the bull in a china shop.

As Azucena, in 1975, at least she was on stage with other big bodies, Pavarotti and Sutherland.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The feedback on Obratzsova helps everyone. I listen to opera mostly on my little island with little feedback from others.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks for playing. I am I think alone in my love of Obratzsova, but it is not the first time my tastes clash with the cognoscenti. Woodduck, you amuse me LOL. I have some more planned of these including a Depuis le jour contest, one of my favorite arias. This encourages me. I will stick to the divas likely as that is my speciality.


Methinks you just wanted to revive Bonetan's contests! :lol::lol:


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The feedback on Obratzsova helps everyone. I listen to opera mostly on my little island with little feedback from others.


We all have our favorites, for whatever reasons. The heart responds to whatever qualities it likes. Some people don't like Callas or Corelli, both of whom I love and make no bones about it. You're entitled to like whomever pleases your senses! Revel in it! 
:tiphat:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Methinks you just wanted to revive Bonetan's contests! :lol::lol:


It is my intent as I learn so much from them. I am going to give it a go. Thanks for what you said in the last post!!!!!!! I suggested most of his soprano duels and most liked those. Bonetan is rather busy with a big project now and has earned our love for what he has done.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth!
I went crazy.
Do I choose the soprano voice that is a lighter sounding but gorgeous throated one or the voice that is not as beautiful but one that packs a big punch in a mezzo way?
It's such a hard choice but I finally decided that I preferred the more beautiful sound of Tebaldi -- but not without trepidation.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

nina foresti said:


> Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth!
> I went crazy.
> Do I choose the soprano voice that is a lighter sounding but gorgeous throated one or the voice that is not as beautiful but one that packs a big punch in a mezzo way?
> It's such a hard choice but I finally decided that I preferred the more beautiful sound of Tebaldi -- but not without trepidation.


It helped that I really didn't like the sounds Obratsova made!


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MAS said:


> It helped that I really didn't like the sounds Obratsova made!


I rarely do. I have two recordings, which feature her, *Adrianna Lecouvreur*, which I'm not really a fan of anyway, and *Luisa Miller* where she oversings her way through the role of Federica.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth!
> I went crazy.
> Do I choose the soprano voice that is a lighter sounding but gorgeous throated one or the voice that is not as beautiful but one that packs a big punch in a mezzo way?
> It's such a hard choice but I finally decided that I preferred the more beautiful sound of Tebaldi -- but not without trepidation.


I'm sending you a Covid friendly hug


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Seattle miluv:
Would you consider a Gheorghiu vs. a Fleming? A Steber vs. a Dessay?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> Seattle miluv:
> Would you consider a Gheorghiu vs. a Fleming? A Steber vs. a Dessay?


Do Steber and Dessay have much overlap in repertoire?

On the other hand, Fleming and Gheorghiu have both been filmed in the same Covent Garden production of *La Traviata*.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Do Steber and Dessay have much overlap in repertoire?
> 
> On the other hand, Fleming and Gheorghiu have both been filmed in the same Covent Garden production of *La Traviata*.


I was also thinking of Traviata for Steber(di Stefano) and Dessay and possibly Tosca for the other two.
Of course it doesn't have to be one against the other. I guess it would be nice just to have some new voices we haven't heard from for a change.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I was also thinking of Traviata for Steber(di Stefano) and Dessay and possibly Tosca for the other two.
> Of course it doesn't have to be one against the other. I guess it would be nice just to have some new voices we haven't heard from for a change.


Traviata was the only role I could think of that Dessay and Steber both sang. I just thought it might be interesting to show videos of Gheorghiu and Fleming, not only in the same role, but in the same production.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Traviata was the only role I could think of that Dessay and Steber both sang. I just thought it might be interesting to show videos of Gheorghiu and Fleming, not only in the same role, but in the same production.


I love love Steber!!! Very underrated because she was American. I am open to suggestions. I'll see what I can do.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I love love Steber!!! Very underrated because she was American. I am open to suggestions. I'll see what I can do.


Set this against anyone else, but do take pity on anyone singing currently!


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## JTS (Sep 26, 2021)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Do *Steber and Dessay have much overlap in repertoire?*
> 
> On the other hand, Fleming and Gheorghiu have both been filmed in the same Covent Garden production of *La Traviata*.


Try Bach Cantata 51


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Set this against anyone else, but do take pity on anyone singing currently!


She sings like a stradivarius. Also just notice how relaxed she was. Seattleoperafan please set this again Leontyne Price's. We will see who is _the_ American diva. 

Speaking of being relaxed, check out the first few seconds of this :


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Set this against anyone else, but do take pity on anyone singing currently!


Bless you for this. It is totally exquisite to me and very involved emotionally by her.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Set this against anyone else, but do take pity on anyone singing currently!


I'm afraid this is one of the rare occasions when you and I disagree. Whilst this is nicely sung and there is much to like about it, I don't hear it as being a superlative version that trumps all others.

I much prefer this earlier recording (in less than perfect sound):






It has a touch of class that Steber's plain rendition lacks.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I'm afraid this is one of the rare occasions when you and I disagree. Whilst this is nicely sung and there is much to like about it, I don't hear it as being a superlative version that trumps all others.
> 
> I much prefer this earlier recording (in less than perfect sound):
> 
> ...


Steber, classless and plain?  Moore does capture a touch more of Louise's sweet rapture - Steber's timbre has a more mature quality. Louise was, I believe, Moore's most famous stage role; she studied it with the composer, and I don't know whether it was even in Steber's repertoire, but vocally Steber is transcendent. And I didn't say that she trumps all others. I haven't heard all others.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Thanks for playing. *I am I think alone in my love of Obratzsova*, but it is not the first time my tastes clash with the cognoscenti. Woodduck, you amuse me LOL. I have some more planned of these including a Depuis le jour contest, one of my favorite arias. This encourages me. I will stick to the divas likely as that is my speciality.


No, you definitely aren't.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Steber, classless and plain?  Moore does capture a touch more of Louise's sweet rapture - Steber's timbre has a more mature quality, Louise was, I believe, Moore's most famous stage role, she studied it with the composer, and I don't know whether it was even in Steber's repertoire - but vocally Steber is transcendent. And I didn't say that she trumps all others. I haven't heard all others.


Steber is neither Tebaldi nor Obratsova, nor does she sing _Suicidio!_. I think you'd better do Depuis le jour  next, Seattleoperafan! :lol:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Hope you don't mind me dredging this old thread up but I forgot to comment on this that at one time there was an earlier live video recording of Suicidio with Rita Hunter that was for me stupefying. It was much much better than her later album version. They took it down for some reason, but her voice at it's peak was really gorgeous and without shifting any apparent gears she glided into some really startingly fabulous chest notes. They sounded like they were reverberating the piano. The whole range seemed to have been of one piece and despite the piano accompaniment it was one of the grandest versions of this aria. Does anyone remember seeing this?


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