# Dogmatic slumber



## manueelster (Feb 7, 2013)

Once Kant wrote that Hume awoke him from his "dogmatic slumber", meaning something like reading Hume made a revolution in the way he perceived philosophy. Is there any piece that awoke you from your dogmatic slumber? Something that changed forever the way you perceived music?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nothing quite so revelatory -- my first exposure was to some of the mid-20th century modern repertoire, when I was very young and the repertoire still relatively young. With that as my context, further / later advances were less startling than if I had only known common practice repertoire.

Even then, there have been some pieces which were a kind of gestalt experience, i.e. "Music can also be like this, work like this, take a form like this."

A few I remember which had that effect:

Takemitsu ~ Dorian Horizon for 17 strings





Lucia Dlugoszewski ~ Fire Fragile Flight, using traditional instruments and new instruments of the composer's invention, both timbres, shape of the piece and construction very new and different to me.





Morton Feldman ~ Piano and string quartet, for its content, how that is manipulated, and the 'form' it takes.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

PetrB said:


> ...my first exposure was to some of the mid-29th century modern repertoire, when I was very young and the repertoire still relatively young.


XXIXth Century? The repertoire was truly very young ;-)


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

brotagonist said:


> XXIXth Century? The repertoire was truly very young ;-)


....and me not even born yet vs. 65 years on the planet.

typo, wrong note, corrected 

But do I wish... and then to be able to come back to this present with all the hot dirt, data, technology, become both prophet and wealthy? Oh, wait, think that premise has been used already several thousand times.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

I first ran into Bartok's piano concertos when I was in my teens. I was completely and utterly blown away.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

To name only a few (I could go on and on):

Bach's _Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin_, _6 Suites for Solo Cello_
Bartók's Complete _String Quartets_
Beethoven's Complete _String Quartets_, _Symphony 9_
Berg's _Chamber Concerto_
Brahms' _Piano Concerto 1_, _Violin Concerto_
Eisler's _Lieder_
Haydn's _String Quartets Op76_
Ligeti's _Melodien_
Malec's _Lumina_
Messiaen's _Chronochromie_, _Visions de l'Amen_
Mozart's _Eine kleine Nachtmusik_
Penderecki's _Anaklasis_, _De Natura Sonoris_, etc.
Prokofiev's _Sinfonia Concertante_, _Symphony 2_
Satie's _Parade_
Schnittke's _Concerto Grosso 4/Symphony 5_
Schönberg's Complete _String Quartets_, _Pierrot Lunaire_, _Wind Quintet_
Schubert's _Death and the Maiden Quartet_
Shostakovich's _Violin Sonata_, _Viola Sonata_
Stockhausen's _Opus 1970_, _Kreuzspiel_
Varèse's _Amériques_
Webern's _6 Pieces for Orchestra_, _Symphony_, _String Quartet_
Weill's _Dreigroschenoper_
Xenakis' _Persepolis_, _Eonta_

It is somewhat a list of longtime favourites and works that opened doors to genres and composers.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

Coltrane's later works - helped me realise music can be good without a catchy hook every 5 seconds.
Schoenberg's string quartets - the first classical pieces to really convince me to _listen_ rather than just hear.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Boring choice, but when I started exploring classical music in the mid 80s, I focused on the baroque, classical and romantic periods initially. Then one day I bought Stravinsky's Le sacre du printemps. I was fascinated by these "ugly" sounds and it opened the gates to exploring more 20th century composers.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> To name only a few (I could go on and on):
> 
> Bach's _Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin_, _6 Suites for Solo Cello_
> Bartók's Complete _String Quartets_
> ...


Jeez, how many dogmatic slumbers have you been in??!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Garlic said:


> Coltrane's later works - helped me realise music can be good without a catchy hook every 5 seconds.
> Schoenberg's string quartets - *the first classical pieces to really convince me to listen rather than just hear.*


Ohhhh... _very well said_. .........................


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

When I was about twelve years old I heard the most _human_ and _heartfelt_ and _emotional_ work I had ever come across at the time: Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw." From the moment I listened to and learnt about that piece of music I discovered the effect of music not only intellectually, but its effect on the soul.


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## Garlic (May 3, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> When I was about twelve years old I heard the most _human_ and _heartfelt_ and _emotional_ work I had ever come across at the time: Schoenberg's "A Survivor from Warsaw." From the moment I listened to and learnt about that piece of music I discovered the effect of music not only intellectually, but its effect on the soul.


Congrats on having such a discerning ear so early on 

When I was 12 my idea of good music was Linkin Park and Papa Roach.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2013)

Woken up from _dogmatic slumber_? I like that phrase! OK, a few pieces that knocked me off my perch, as follows, and in no particular order, as each piece knocked me off my perch anew, and for different reasons (squawk!) :
*Ligeti* : String Quartet N° 2 (String writing that I had never imagined before, and far more effective than anything in this genre by Ferneyhough.);
*Xenakis* : _Pithoprakta_ (A way of writing for massed strings and percussion, with textures acting akin to behaviours of gas molecules ... or something like that.);
*Varèse* : _Octandre_ (Astonishing timbres via an unusual instrumental mix; fused timbres.)
*Wishart* : _Anticredos_ (Never, ever thought the human voice could be used in such a way.)
*Smalley* : _Pentes_ (The first piece of electroacoustic music I ever listened to and blew my socks off.)

So yes, these were for me quite formative experiences that changed quite considerably how I perceived music.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't think I'm dogmatic. I'm pretty open always to new things, I hate the possibility of being wrong and not knowing about it!. I like to learn.
One of the latest things that clicked on me was integral serialism. A year ago or so, my listening time was already 90 per cent 20th century. But I still had problems for understanding integral serialism. And one day, when I was in a very bad mood and couldn't stand any of the music I was trying to listen, I put *Boulez*'s _Piano Sonata No.2_, _I. Extrêmement rapide_ (although, I think, not exactly integral serialism). And it was amazing, every single note made sense to me, I found the piece so incredibly coherent and consistent with itself. Every nuance and gesture was perfectly situated. 
Since then, I feel like Neo. Every time I listen to a new piece of music of any style, I have no trouble in understanding it, I can see its inner workings, the ideas (in the Neo analogy, those green fibers of the matrix, lol).


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Nereffid said:


> Jeez, how many dogmatic slumbers have you been in??!


Quite a number.

I once thought I didn't like Baroque music. Bach changed that. I once dismissed Shostakovich, because I had heard his Fifth back in the '70s when I was a Stockhausen fanatic. His sonatas had me gasping: how could I have missed this for so long? Beethoven and Mozart helped me break out of the bizarre new music mindset I had been in as a young adult. Prokofiev...


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

manueelster said:


> Once Kant wrote that Hume awoke him from his "dogmatic slumber", meaning something like reading Hume made a revolution in the way he perceived philosophy. Is there any piece that awoke you from your dogmatic slumber? Something that changed forever the way you perceived music?


Kant's awakening was different from the others on this thread--in fact, in certain respects it was opposite. Hume created a skeptical philosophy that stripped away certainties of which Kant was already convinced, thereby causing Kant (he says) to think more thoroughly about his own principles and to set them out in systematic order. One could say that Hume was the provocative atonal composer who revealed to Kant the importance of putting tonality on a better conceptual foundation. It's not so much revolutionary as counter-revolutionary!

Anyways, it was Sibelius who revealed to me that symphonies could be deeply personal--and not primarily public--statements. I heard the whole symphonic repertoire differently after wallowing in his music for a couple years.

(Sorry if I sound pedantic--not my intent! I always appreciate being sent to Wikipedia.)


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

I have learnt not to have any kind of dogmatic slumbers; much less in music. I have an addiction for Mozart but that does not mean that this is a dogmatic slumber. Each composer is a unique as unique the experience I have got from them.


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## Ondine (Aug 24, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> Anyways, it was Sibelius who revealed to me that symphonies could be deeply personal--and not primarily public--statements. I heard the whole symphonic repertoire differently after wallowing in his music for a couple years.


Yes, I have felt that same thing about Sibelius.


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