# Final Vote:O du mein holder Abendstern" Gerhard Husch and Hakan Hagegard



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I'm tardy closing this contest. Sorry.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

This pairing offers a good illustration of changes in singing style that occurred in the late 20th century. We would never mistake Husch for a postwar singer, nor Hagegard for a prewar one. Husch uses subtle portamenti and savors the sounds of the language, employing both of these things to shape the line so as to make it "speak" and conveying both humanity and authority. The voice itself, rich, dark and vibrant, suggests reserves of power; we sense that it has been developed to its full capacity for resonance, and that the sensitivity with which Husch uses it is a choice, not something imposed by the limitations of his instrument (something we occasionally feel when listening to "lyric" voices).

Hagegard captures the meditative quality of the aria, and his warm, smooth voice is very easy to listen to. In the context of today's vocal standards and stylistic practices, I would probably welcome his Wolfram in any performance or recording of _Tannhauser,_ while not forgetting those extra technical and musical qualities that we find mainly in singers who lived before recording technology could do justice to the full dimensions of their work.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Man oh man. I voted for each of these singers in their individual contests. I like the depth and breadth of Hunsch’s rich instrument and the sonority such an instrument provides. I like Hagegård’s way with the aria and the ease with which he puts the song across, not shirking the meaning of the piece, either. I never though he could compete with better endowed baritones, but he’s reached the finals! 

I can’t do better than go with Woodduck’s choice when I can’t make up my own mind.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Man oh man. I voted for each of these singers in their individual contests. I like the depth and breadth of Hunsch's rich instrument and the sonority such an instrument provides. I like Hagegård's way with the aria and the ease with which he puts the song across, not shirking the meaning of the piece, either. I never though he could compete with better endowed baritones, but he's reached the finals!
> 
> I can't do better than go with Woodduck's choice when I can't make up my own mind.


This isn't your main thing and I''m glad you ended up enjoying it. I sure did and it was all new to me.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> This pairing offers a good illustration of changes in singing style that occurred in the late 20th century. We would never mistake Husch for a postwar singer, nor Hagegard for a prewar one. Husch uses subtle portamenti and savors the sounds of the language, employing both of these things to shape the line so as to make it "speak" and conveying both humanity and authority. The voice itself, rich, dark and vibrant, suggests reserves of power; we sense that it has been developed to its full capacity for resonance, and that the sensitivity with which Husch uses it is a choice, not something imposed by the limitations of his instrument (something we occasionally feel when listening to "lyric" voices).
> 
> Hagegard captures the meditative quality of the aria, and his warm, smooth voice is very easy to listen to. In the context of today's vocal standards and stylistic practices, *I would probably welcome his Wolfram* in any performance or recording of _Tannhauser,_ while not forgetting those extra technical and musical qualities that we find mainly in singers who lived before recording technology could do justice to the full dimensions of their work.


I feel you're being a bit harsh here. I'd welcome him as a Norse god compared to the Wagnerian singers we have now.

Other than this, I entirely agree with this post. In an attempt to add something, I would like to say that in the postwar/prewar distinction the use of legato is extremely noticeable. Although Hagegard's voice is very "smooth", he never truly maintains a strong legato line; Husch, on the other hand, maybe doesn't have as "smooth" of a voice, but especially in the later section of the aria maintains a near-perfect legato line.

All that being said, Hagegard really was quite good here even if he sang in more of a modern style and I feel we might be giving a bit of a short stick to what was an admirable, moving, and heartfelt rendition of a lovely and sensitive aria.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Gorgeous as Hagegards singing is, I'm still bothered by the lieder like lightness ( go ahead, 3xs fast!) of some of the soft singing in the upper voice, particularly in the recitative. It's just too unsubstantial, even in this lyrical piece, to convince me Wolfram is the man of substance I've always thought of him as being. His way with the musical line needs no apology but his way with the text is not individual. Husch has all of the qualities that I find missing in Hagegard, in spades! And in a slightly different way, his voice is also beautiful. Hagegard very good, Husch Great!!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

BachIsBest said:


> I feel you're being a bit harsh here. I'd welcome him as a Norse god compared to the Wagnerian singers we have now.
> 
> Other than this, I entirely agree with this post. In an attempt to add something, I would like to say that in the postwar/prewar distinction the use of legato is extremely noticeable. Although Hagegard's voice is very "smooth", he never truly maintains a strong legato line; Husch, on the other hand, maybe doesn't have as "smooth" of a voice, but especially in the later section of the aria maintains a near-perfect legato line.
> 
> All that being said, Hagegard really was quite good here even if he sang in more of a modern style and I feel we might be giving a bit of a short stick to what was an admirable, moving, and heartfelt rendition of a lovely and sensitive aria.


Speaking just for me, I hear Hagegard and I hear someone I'd like to date LOL. It is a dreamy voice! I would like to get to where I can hear all that you hear in the music. I think I know something and then I find there is so much more to learn.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BachIsBest said:


> *I feel you're being a bit harsh here. I'd welcome him as a Norse god compared to the Wagnerian singers we have now.*
> 
> *Although Hagegard's voice is very "smooth", he never truly maintains a strong legato line*


I wanted to drop my remarks in but after what I did to a Woodduck quote the other day, decided I'd be a bit more conservative in my attempt.

Do you mean that you'd picture Hagegard, based on this rendition, as Wotan????

I'm not going to go back and listen to verify, but I'm very surprised to hear someone question Hagegards legato! How can you be very smooth but lacking in legato?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> I feel you're being a bit harsh here. I'd welcome him as a Norse god compared to the Wagnerian singers we have now.
> 
> Other than this, I entirely agree with this post. In an attempt to add something, I would like to say that in the postwar/prewar distinction the use of legato is extremely noticeable. Although Hagegard's voice is very "smooth", he never truly maintains a strong legato line; Husch, on the other hand, maybe doesn't have as "smooth" of a voice, but especially in the later section of the aria maintains a near-perfect legato line.
> 
> All that being said, Hagegard really was quite good here even if he sang in more of a modern style and I feel we might be giving a bit of a short stick to what was an admirable, moving, and heartfelt rendition of a lovely and sensitive aria.


I didn't think I was being harsh. "Probably" expresses my tendency to be cautious, but also my uncertainty about how he would handle the entire role. We are talking about a Wagner opera, after all, a thought that should give pause to more singers than it actually does. The only complete role I've heard Hagegard sing is Papageno (in the Bergman film, where he was delightful), and I've heard him in song rep and found him very pleasing. It's hard to imagine his light, lyric voice as, say, Kurwenal or Gunther, but I have no reservations about his singing of the present aria except for those stated.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

ScottK said:


> I wanted to drop my remarks in but after what I did to a Woodduck quote the other day, decided I'd be a bit more conservative in my attempt.
> 
> Do you mean that you'd picture Hagegard, based on this rendition, as Wotan????
> 
> I'm not going to go back and listen to verify, but I'm very surprised to hear someone question Hagegards legato! How can you be very smooth but lacking in legato?


I was using smooth to describe, partially, the timbre of his voice, if that makes sense. Listen to the part in Husch from about 2:00-2:45. Listen to how so much is perfectly elided together (some transitions between notes, particularly those where the adjacent notes are farther apart, are probably better described as portamento than legato, but there is some fuzzy area here). If you listen to the same section in Hagegard, although he certainly doesn't sing it staccato, the transition between notes is, to my ears, clearly less seamless.

As to the part about Norse gods, I was just making a joke on the comparative quality of Hagegard's singing to many modern singers of Wagner, and was not attempting to make role suggestions.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I didn't think I was being harsh. "Probably" expresses my tendency to be cautious, but also my uncertainty about how he would handle the entire role. We are talking about a Wagner opera, after all, a thought that should give pause to more singers than it actually does. The only complete role I've heard Hagegard sing is Papageno (in the Bergman film, where he was delightful), and I've heard him in song rep and found him very pleasing. It's hard to imagine his light, lyric voice as, say, Kurwenal or Gunther, but I have no reservations about his singing of the present aria except for those stated.


I must admit my ignorance and admit that I haven't heard Hagegard sing before, so my entire impression of him is based off of this aria. I have no idea how he would do a full production of Wagner. However, here is my top youtube result when I youtube this aria.






At the beginning, the singer's voice is unattractive artificially darkened, when he starts into the higher, softer, notes his voice loses all its fullness of tone and squillo (great soft singers manage to create a sound that is quiet and softer but still fills the space) that it had (and there wasn't a huge amount to begin with), something weird happens just after 2:40, and the legato line here is, to be generous, not great.

So if we just take this aria, which was all I was going off of, I stand by my comments.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Speaking just for me, I hear Hagegard and I hear someone I'd like to date LOL. It is a dreamy voice! I would like to get to where I can hear all that you hear in the music. I think I know something and then I find there is so much more to learn.


Hah! Sometimes I think "I wish I could hear what that Seattleoperafan guy hears" so we all learn from each other. Except for Wooduck, he already knows everything the old bugger.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

An interesting factoid is that Gerhard Hüsch's most famous operatic portrayal was his Papageno, which was also the role that brought Håkan Hagegård to worldwide attention in Ingmar Bergman's wonderful film of _Die Zauberflote. _ The bird-catcher's music is less taxing than "O du mein holder Abendstern," but it's still interesting to hear both baritones sing it (Hagegård in Swedish):


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

BachIsBest said:


> I must admit my ignorance and admit that I haven't heard Hagegard sing before, so my entire impression of him is based off of this aria. I have no idea how he would do a full production of Wagner. However, here is my top youtube result when I youtube this aria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't questioning any of your remarks except the one where you thought I was being harsh, and I don't see what Terfel has to do with Hagegård. But on this Terfel performance we're in complete agreement. I'm afraid Terfel didn't do his voice any favors when he moved into heavy operatic roles. I suspect he'd have done this aria better years earlier, before the Scarpias and Wotans and whatever else he attempted.

From Wiki it appears that Hagegård did sing Wolfram. It's true that it's Wagner's most lyrical baritone role, which is why Fischer-Dieskau was excellent in it.


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> I wasn't questioning any of your remarks except the one where you thought I was being harsh, and I don't see what Terfel has to do with Hagegård. But on this Terfel performance we're in complete agreement. I'm afraid Terfel didn't do his voice any favors when he moved into heavy operatic roles. I suspect he'd have done this aria better years earlier, before the Scarpias and Wotans and whatever else he attempted.
> 
> From Wiki it appears that Hagegård did sing Wolfram. It's true that it's Wagner's most lyrical baritone role, which is why Fischer-Dieskau was excellent in it.


I was just trying to justify my comment that Hagegard was heads and tails above today's singers, at least in this aria by choosing a random leading singer today (random determined by the youtube). Anyhow, at this point I feel we're arguing over things we agree on.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I didn't think I was being harsh. "Probably" expresses my tendency to be cautious, but also my uncertainty about how he would handle the entire role. We are talking about a Wagner opera, after all, a thought that should give pause to more singers than it actually does. The only complete role I've heard Hagegard sing is Papageno (in the Bergman film, where he was delightful), and I've heard him in song rep and found him very pleasing. It's hard to imagine his light, lyric voice as, say, Kurwenal or Gunther, but I have no reservations about his singing of the present aria except for those stated.


Woodduck, this is what Wiki says about his career:He began his career associated with relatively light roles and expanded his repertore to include Guglielmo in Mozart's Così fan tutte, Count Almaviva in Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro, Figaro in Rossini's Il Barbiere di Siviglia, Rodrigo in Verdi's Don Carlos, and Wolfram in Wagner's Tannhäuser. Rodrigo and Wolfram appear to be the only heavier roles he sang. I think it could make a difference if he sang those in smaller theaters in Europe. He also appears to be almost more associated with lieder recitals than opera. This could explain the lyric sound of his version of this aria which was so beguiling in a recording. Mozart was the major operatic speciality of his.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Not a lot to add. I voted for both these singers, and though I really like Hagegård's lovely rendition as well, I think Hüsch is just that bit more vocally entitled.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

BachIsBest said:


> I was just trying to justify my comment that Hagegard was heads and tails above today's singers, at least in this aria by choosing a random leading singer today (random determined by the youtube)..


So I get your response to my earlier questions...Norse god was a lighthearted response and legato was comparative. And I have, before this, asked my self, is legato only about the connecting of notes? I'm guessing the textbook answer is yes, but I do agree that the basic timbre of a voice can have ...lets say some "grain" in it (Schipa...oh man I'm asking for it!) or can be velvet (young DiStefano) That would seem to relate to smoothness until one considers the name I mentioned for having the grainier timbre.

I'd be done with a "Like this post" until you involved Terfel. And I'm a mixed bagger on Terfel. Loving stuff and not. And along with the charm I sometimes get a little too much self-satisfaction. But I'm not really with you here.

I hear no false darkening of the tone at the beginning. Thats the Terfel voice I've always known and I have always found it a natural production, no Leonard Warren going on here for me. From the beginning of the piece I hear far more involvement in the text and more Burrr in the voice than I hear in Hagegard. I'm mixed on his high soft singing but I think it retains more authority, and has some magic, compared to Hagegard. And Terfel is singing in a big hall.

He shows some signs of wear as the aria goes on and here and there the line breaks to no gain, but I think in this example these things are small, perfection is not the point. I adore Husch's rendition but don't find the upper singing effortless. i just find it effort very well spent. The biggie is I think Terfels line by line investment is closer to Husch than Hagegard. And he has a glorious voice. Hakan Hagegard is a wonderful singer but...I'll understate.... he isn't remotely close to being head and tails above Bryn Terfel.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Woodduck, this is what Wiki says about his career:He began his career associated with relatively light roles and expanded his repertore to include Guglielmo in Mozart's Così fan tutte, Count Almaviva in Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro, Figaro in Rossini's Il Barbiere di Siviglia, Rodrigo in Verdi's Don Carlos, and Wolfram in Wagner's Tannhäuser. Rodrigo and Wolfram appear to be the only heavier roles he sang. I think it could make a difference if he sang those in smaller theaters in Europe. He also appears to be almost more associated with lieder recitals than opera. This could explain the lyric sound of his version of this aria which was so beguiling in a recording. Mozart was the major operatic speciality of his.


SOF I'm assuming you know the Bergman Flute and if you already said as much, forgive me. But if you don't, Hagegard will charm your socks off.....(now if that isn't a set-up line I don't know what is !!!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> SOF I'm assuming you know the Bergman Flute and if you already said as much, forgive me. But if you don't, Hagegard will charm your socks off.....(now if that isn't a set-up line I don't know what is !!!


Saw it 30 years ago, Scott.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

WoodDuck_ Your appraisal of Husch is, as usual, excellent. However, I respectfully suggest your comments apply to his earlier recordings, the best of which might well be the Winterriese. Regrettably, he recorded it again much later in life and the result is woeful. 

I'm pleased to say I cannot find the latter recording - I heard it years ago in a friend's collection


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

aussiebushman said:


> WoodDuck_ Your appraisal of Husch is, as usual, excellent. However, I respectfully suggest your comments apply to his earlier recordings, the best of which might well be the Winterriese. Regrettably, he recorded it again much later in life and the result is woeful.


I can't remember if I've heard the later Winterreise, but I've heard some other post-WW2 recordings by Hüsch, and they're pretty bad. I'm pretty sure that the postwar stuff was issued only in Japan, perhaps because he was persona non grata in the West.


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