# Ferneyhough vs Lachenmann



## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

_Which grumpy old man's music do you fancy most?_

*EN GARDE!*

*_Helmut Lachenmann*






*_Brian Ferneyhough*


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Damn, I forgot to include the stupid poll. 

Not my night.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

My vote is for Lachenmann though I'm a huge fan of both.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Morimur said:


> Damn, I forgot to include the stupid poll.
> 
> Not my night.


Forgetting to be stupid is not a bad thing. Maybe your example will inspire others.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Andolink said:


> My vote is for Lachenmann though I'm a huge fan of both.


What is it about Lachenmann's music that appeals to you more than Ferneyhough's?


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I think there is more subtlety in Lachenmann's work generally which I like a lot. Ferneyhough is more about complex layerings of counterpoint, disjunct rhythms, sharp contrasts and high tension. I like that Lachenmann will allow the music to get sparse or threadbare for significant stretches of a piece.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm afraid neither's music engage me much at this stage.


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## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

Can't choose, both are top ten composers for me. 

/ptr


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## MrTortoise (Dec 25, 2008)

I gave both videos a sample listen and was more intrigued by Lachenmann. As a point of reference the Lachenmann reminded me of George Crumb, a composer I have enjoyed a lot. I need to explore both composers more.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2015)

I plan on hearing more of both, perhaps moreso Ferneyhough.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

the y bth SUCKK even though i Haven't HEARD them


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2015)

Dim7 said:


> the y bth SUCKK even though i Haven't HEARD them
> 
> View attachment 73221


You passing the bong round or what?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

I am a fan of both of these guys, so as far as preference it's just a matter of what kind of mood I am in.


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## MrTortoise (Dec 25, 2008)

Morimur: Are the pieces in the yt vids on your short list of favorites for each composer? What other works do you suggest?


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

dogen said:


> You passing the bong round or what?


whatdoes that mean i DONT UNDERSTAND


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

MrTortoise said:


> Morimur: Are the pieces in the yt vids on your short list of favorites for each composer? What other works do you suggest?


I recommend the complete string quartet sets by both composers.



















You'll really get a sense of the kind of composer each is by listening to these. The string quartet medium is most unforgiving of weaknesses.


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## SeptimalTritone (Jul 7, 2014)

Andolink said:


> I think there is more subtlety in Lachenmann's work generally which I like a lot. Ferneyhough is more about complex layerings of counterpoint, disjunct rhythms, sharp contrasts and high tension. I like that Lachenmann will allow the music to get sparse or threadbare for significant stretches of a piece.


Yes, I tend to agree! Ferneyhough seems to derive a lot of energy from the intersection of his instrumental lines (i.e. his counterpoint), whereas Lachenmann perhaps puts more care into the overall sound as a single main entity.

Don't forget the wittiness of Richard Barrett too


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, I love Barrett's work also.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Andolink said:


> I think there is more subtlety in Lachenmann's work generally which I like a lot. Ferneyhough is more about complex layerings of counterpoint, disjunct rhythms, sharp contrasts and high tension. I like that Lachenmann will allow the music to get sparse or threadbare for significant stretches of a piece.


I know what you mean


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

That is a difficult choice, indeed...

I would go with Ferneyhough, however. I just love this piece of music:






And perhaps I like a little bit more "Shadowtime" than "Das Mädchen mit den Schwefelhölzern"...


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

One thing, I'm not sure if it means anything. The Lachenmann quartets, I'm thinking particularly of Grido, has been very frequently recorded - Jack, Arditti, Stadler. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others and various lives - I even found an arrangement for string orchestra called Grido 2. Ferneyhough has Arditti and that's it, though I believe that Arditti recorded some of them twice. 

Even " mainstream" pianists have started to record Lachenmann - I'm thinking of Herbert Schuch. 

Maybe Lachenmann is easier for for your average classical listener - not Gran Torso obviously but Grido , for example, is very sweet I think. Ferneyhough is always quite demanding, you have to somehow know how to follow many voices, changing textures. 

My own preference is for Ferneyhough, I really like Transit for example and the canons from Shadowlands and the 6th quartet and Bone Alphabet. I really should make an effort to get to Lachenmann better maybe, I've never heard the Matchstick opera. Is there a video?


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## Sina (Aug 3, 2012)

I adore both as much. And they're quite different and hence incomparable, I think. Lachenman never means to be as "complex", and Ferneyhough never means to be as "concrète", I assume. Though both are great philosophers of new music and neither more so than the other, I guess.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Mandryka said:


> I really should make an effort to get to Lachenmann better maybe, I've never heard the Matchstick opera. Is there a video?


As far as I'm aware there is no published DVD of the opera, just a couple of CDs. You can watch a concert version, however:


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