# Do you think a composer's music influences you to be more like them?



## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

Do you think a composer's music influences you to be more like them? 

I was watching the Bartok documentary "After the Storm," and while I like his music I have this idea that he wasn't altogether a happy person. He also never seemed to compose a religious work, which is usually the type of composer I listen to. Anyway, I have not been in the best mood while going through this documentary. Granted, he did have a sad end to his life. This question could be a bit philosophical, maybe we somehow reap what we sow in this life. 

np William Byrd (proper antidote).


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

I am a Christian so I do not believe in karma. It is not that a composer's music makes me want to emulate him/her but it frequently moves me to try and be a better person.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Absolutely. My wife just pointed out the obvious similarities between me and our daughter to which I replied "Any *** can see that!".


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

regenmusic said:


> Do you think a composer's music influences you to be more like them?
> 
> I was watching the Bartok documentary "After the Storm," and while I like his music I have this idea that he wasn't altogether a happy person. He also never seemed to compose a religious work, which is usually the type of composer I listen to. Anyway, I have not been in the best mood while going through this documentary. Granted, he did have a sad end to his life. This question could be a bit philosophical, maybe we somehow reap what we sow in this life.
> 
> np William Byrd (proper antidote).


Are you implying that Bartok somehow deserved to suffer and die of illness? And so what if he didn't compose a religious work. He composed great music. And music is the only religion that delivers the goods, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I really don't understand your question.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

I've never felt sympathetic affinity for any composer after listening to their work, which is perhaps a good thing, as Josef Suk, Hugo Wolf, and Peter Warlock are among my new favourites.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2016)

Whenever I listen to Wagner i feel like wearing silk and women's undergarments


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I really don't understand your question.


Tanks goodness I am not alone .


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

No amount of adulation for the Hammerclavier sonata has compelled me to dump a bucket of water over my head and I can hear fairly well for my age.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I just mean if you are listening to a composer whose music is often happy, you become more cheerful.
If you listen to a composer who had a tough life and didn't really write cheerful music, you may end up looking more for darkness when it would make just as much sense to look for the bright side of things.

I don't think Bartok deserved to be ill and rejected, I was just posting some questions on the topic of the influence of music.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

regenmusic said:


> I just mean if you are listening to a composer whose music is often happy, you become more cheerful.
> If you listen to a composer who had a tough life and didn't really write cheerful music, you may end up looking more for darkness when it would make just as much sense to look for the bright side of things.
> 
> I don't think Bartok deserved to be ill and rejected, I was just posting some questions on the topic of the influence of music.


There have been a lot of composers who had a lot of sad music. If what you listen to were to effect you that way maybe you should avoid them.


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

First I didn't get the question. well, ....but I think now I'm trying to get it. 
and yes, the answer is yes, it influences whatever way we might think of an influence. But depends on a person and at the same time on a degree of self-identification with the music one listens provided there is this identification and how deeply one concentrates on this music while listening. If listened more for getting an aesthetical pleasure from harmonious sounds so to say then it's one thing and perhaps here influence doesn't touch an inner being of a person - here music plays its "entertaining " part regardless of a genre, it can be a tragic opera or comic musical. If one pays more attention and takes music as the deepest tool of self-expression of a composer analyzing it and almost dissolving into it then yes, from frequent listening it can influence one's life a lot, including course of life, and how one interprets life ....

While speaking of those two different approaches of listening to music we can't really separate aesthetical approach from the other one which is related to one's existential questions - ontological as both are interconnected. Anyway at the same time I presume more people go for aesthetical part first, it's natural. It's sort of an appearance of music  and first judgement is always made by appearance whatever one says. 

PS my reply is based on my assumptions of how I understand the question given by OP.


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## Xenakiboy (May 8, 2016)

regenmusic said:


> I just mean if you are listening to a composer whose music is often happy, you become more cheerful.
> If you listen to a composer who had a tough life and didn't really write cheerful music, you may end up looking more for darkness when it would make just as much sense to look for the bright side of things.
> 
> I don't think Bartok deserved to be ill and rejected, I was just posting some questions on the topic of the influence of music.


No, no, no and no.


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## regenmusic (Oct 23, 2014)

I wasn't particularly thinking of long term influences of music on people, I was just thinking of short term. I think people seek out what type of music they resonate with, whether they are usually very serious, or balanced, or more focused on seeing the humor in life (not the dark humor in life).


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

regenmusic said:


> I think people *seek out* what type of music they resonate with, whether they are usually very serious, or balanced, or more focused on seeing the humor in life (not the dark humor in life).


right, that´s true


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

regenmusic said:


> I just mean if you are listening to a composer whose music is often happy, you become more cheerful.
> If you listen to a composer who had a tough life and didn't really write cheerful music, you may end up looking more for darkness when it would make just as much sense to look for the bright side of things.
> 
> I don't think Bartok deserved to be ill and rejected, I was just posting some questions on the topic of the influence of music.


I do have that tendency, however even more when I hear a beautiful voice singing.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> Do you think a composer's music influences you to be more like them?
> 
> I was watching the Bartok documentary "After the Storm," and while I like his music I have this idea that he wasn't altogether a happy person. He also never seemed to compose a religious work, which is usually the type of composer I listen to. Anyway, I have not been in the best mood while going through this documentary. *Granted, he did have a sad end to his life. This question could be a bit philosophical, maybe we somehow reap what we sow in this life.*
> 
> np William Byrd (proper antidote).


Sad end? Maybe. Displaced from his home, where he resisted fascism and refused to compose under an evil regime, he landed in 1940 on foreign soil, in the U.S., where he never felt at home. But his noble, proud and generous nature had, over a lifetime, won him the love and loyal support of many. He rarely wanted for work in those last years and he worked tirelessly, compiling collections of Serbian and Croatian folk music and, while dying of leukemia, creating joyous masterpieces that far transcended his personal misery, like the Concerto for Orchestra, the Sixth String Quartet, and the Third Piano Concerto. So, the answer to your question is emphatically no. We don't reap what we sow. If we did, Bartok would have fared far better. He would have lived long enough to see his fellow humans come to more fully appreciate the inestimable gifts he left them.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Well, I will sometimes seek out a piece of music that matches my mood of the time, but that's different. Listening to Das Lied . . . makes me sad and wistful; Missa Solemnis uplifts me; Opus 111 when I'm in a contemplative mood; Goldbergs when I just want to bathe myself in pure wondrous music; . . . However, I have never wanted to be like Mahler, Beethoven, Bach, whoever.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Not sure. But I've always empathised with Schubert. Like him I often leave stuff unfinished, I'm socially awkward and with terrible eyesight!


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2016)

More like the composer or the music?

I'm still in the confused camp. 

I'm sure we all select music in response in some way to our current frame of mind, but "influence"?....that surely implies a more long term effect on us?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I think that listening a lot to Beethoven has made me a bit like him. That has led to some interesting discoveries. For instance, decent ear trumpets are very hard to find these days.

Styles have changed too.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> I just mean if you are listening to a composer whose music is often happy, you become more cheerful.
> If you listen to a composer who had a tough life and didn't really write cheerful music, you may end up looking more for darkness when it would make just as much sense to look for the bright side of things.
> 
> I don't think Bartok deserved to be ill and rejected, I was just posting some questions on the topic of the influence of music.


Music does not work that way with me.

I am generally a happy, upbeat, relaxed person, but most of the music I listen to (20th century and contemporary) is often dark, angular, tense.

What usually happens with me, is that I usually feel better after listening. It is sort of cathartic for me to listen to something dark and tense.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm in a similar position to Simon. I tend to favour music that other people might call sad, or even depressing. But listening to such doesnt make me feel morose. Quite the opposite. I find I can only take so much happy, upbeat music. The same extends to popular music. For popular music to engage me there has to be some emotional content. Can't be doing with happy soppy love songs.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

regenmusic said:


> Do you think a composer's music influences you to be more like them?
> 
> I was watching the Bartok documentary "After the Storm," and while I like his music I have this idea that he wasn't altogether a happy person. He also never seemed to compose a religious work, which is usually the type of composer I listen to. Anyway, I have not been in the best mood while going through this documentary. Granted, he did have a sad end to his life. This question could be a bit philosophical, maybe we somehow reap what we sow in this life.
> 
> np William Byrd (proper antidote).


A few things on this. I believe I see what you mean.

1. This could go back to my music hermeneutics post from a few days ago. I posted it in the deep thinking TC group, but maybe I should make it a thread on the main forum. 
2. What you seem to be getting at - and understandably hesitating to say outright - is that when certain people listen to certain composers' music, they can "understand" it more deeply than others generally can. This deep connection with a composer's works can subconsciously influence that person to adopt aspects of the composer's temperament or attitude towards certain emotions, circumstances, etc. 
(Let me know if this is what you mean, because I'm having trouble explaining it, too.)

The most striking example of this in my life was my experience with Dostoevsky's literature. Particularly, _Crime and Punishment_ and _Brothers Karamazov_ produced quite a nasty effect within me that I didn't notice for days, if not weeks. My personality lost its brightness and vivacity, and I was thrown into that sort of perpetual gloom that emanates from those two books. There were no other reasons for this - just that I was reading the books. 
When I finished both, I slowly became like myself again.

So, to answer your initial question, yes. And not only composers' music - writers' literature, too.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

mstar said:


> A few things on this. I believe I see what you mean.
> 
> 1. This could go back to my music hermeneutics post from a few days ago. I posted it in the deep thinking TC group, but maybe I should make it a thread on the main forum.
> 2. What you seem to be getting at - and understandably hesitating to say outright - is that when certain people listen to certain composers' music, they can "understand" it more deeply than others generally can. This deep connection with a composer's works can subconsciously influence that person to adopt aspects of the composer's temperament or attitude towards certain emotions, circumstances, etc.
> ...


Yes, I agree something well crafted will leave its mark on you. It might not last long.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Whenever I listen to Beethoven, my jaw starts tightening up, I start looking real fierce, and am prone to violent outbursts. My wife says I even start looking like him. So, yes, I agree.

Whenever I listen to John Cage, I get this goofy, vacant grin on my face.

Schoenberg? All my hair falls out, veins pop out on my head, and I become an outsider, alienated, megalomaniacal, an intense stare, obsessed with numbers...


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Yes, I agree something well crafted will leave its mark on you. It might not last long.


Yeah, it's kinda like when I was a kid and we'd see a western, we'd go home and be cowboys. And when we saw a good war movie, we'd play army.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

millionrainbows said:


> Whenever I listen to Beethoven, my jaw starts tightening up, I start looking real fierce, and am prone to violent outbursts. My wife says I even start looking like him. So, yes, I agree.
> 
> Whenever I listen to John Cage, I get this goofy, vacant grin on my face.
> 
> Schoenberg? All my hair falls out, veins pop out on my head, and I become an outsider, alienated, megalomaniacal, an intense stare, obsessed with numbers...


Lol very funny....


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> Yeah, it's kinda like when I was a kid and we'd see a western, we'd go home and be cowboys. And when we saw a good war movie, we'd play army.


Except for that, unless the person susceptible to what the OP's talking about is aware of... well, their susceptibility, then it can go completely unnoticed by hisself or herself until someone else points out a change in their character.

Maybe this tends to strike people who are more sensitive (neurologically). For instance, those with sensory over-responsivity.


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## Balthazar (Aug 30, 2014)

Ever since I joined this site, I fly into a rage whenever I lose a penny.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

LarryShone said:


> I'm in a similar position to Simon. I tend to favour music that other people might call sad, or even depressing. But listening to such doesnt make me feel morose. Quite the opposite. I find I can only take so much happy, upbeat music. The same extends to popular music. For popular music to engage me there has to be some emotional content. Can't be doing with happy soppy love songs.


Sometimes you what to hear something is a different mood than what you are having. Sometimes you just want to hear depressing things.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> Sometimes you what to hear something is a different mood than what you are having. Sometimes you just want to hear depressing things.


No thats not it. I never want to hear depressing things. I just think a minor key is more expressive. More interesting.


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## Johnnie Burgess (Aug 30, 2015)

LarryShone said:


> No thats not it. I never want to hear depressing things. I just think a minor key is more expressive. More interesting.


I was not pointing you out. Some people are like that.


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## LarryShone (Aug 29, 2014)

Johnnie Burgess said:


> I was not pointing you out. Some people are like that.


Oh sorry, its just that you quoted my post and it came up in What's New


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## micro (Jun 18, 2016)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> I replied "Any *** can see that!".


That sounds familiar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Brahms)#History


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

A common attitude among many: those people who think they don't have a "dark side." 

That will never be true. 

In such cases, the dark side probably just comes out as condescending attitudes towards the other that is totally below the level of awareness. Then, whoever it was being talked to walks away feeling diminished, as if their interests and concerns are somehow "wrong" or invalid.

People must accept their own dark side; then they can listen to this "dark depressing" music as if it were expressing part of their own being: this is called "connecting" with art. 

I have no advice for people who seem to be stuck in a fairy tale. Suffering comes later. Fairy tales die.


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## mstar (Aug 14, 2013)

millionrainbows said:


> A common attitude among many: those people who think they don't have a "dark side."
> 
> That will never be true.
> 
> ...


Darkness further investigated can be found to stem from moral evil, a false conviction or belief, some sort of internal struggle or suffering, or - in a few cases - the freuquent occupation of the mind with profound, basic (in the word's literal sense) metaphysical concepts. It sounds weird in words, but some people's thoughts are highly - almost constantly - involved in such things and their (more tangible?) applications. You truly never know how much a person knows - that is, unless they're pretending to know everything, in which case they probably know almost nothing.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

Interesting discussion.

I have no doubts about my own faults. I'm a creepy, miserable and serious man for the most times, quite seldom happy. More older I get, more people seem to avoid my company. How does that then relate to the music I enjoy most? I guess it only shows up in that I really enjoy serious music. I cannot stand light-headed popular music anymore, which is a bit sad state of affairs. I cannot listen to commercial radio for more that five minutes, then I'm out. From the classical music I seem to enjoy most absolute music. If there's a clear message, I tend to not like it, or then draw my own conclusions out of it.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Replying to the OT, unfortunately I've been failing at this a bit. I've lost quite a bit of weight in the last year when I was no longer subsisting on college food... :tiphat:

My soul is fat instead. :lol:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

The more Nielsen I listen to, the more lovely ladies I find myself exchanging smiles with. Add some Janacek and I start looking a more than a few decades older but I don't forget about those same sorts women.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> A common attitude among many: those people who think they don't have a "dark side."
> 
> That will never be true.
> 
> ...


Totally off topic now(and in stark contrast to the joke above) but, it's been a while since I even thought about that. I just had a flash of insecurity because I'm afraid that it is more applicable than I want to admit. But I don't deny that I have a dark side, at least to myself. I just don't show it to many others in most settings, because I am not comfortable sharing the emotions of it, though I can discuss the contents. They are too much for most people, and they got worse at one point because I knew they were too much for most people, and thus felt extreme bitterness at not being able to connect. I don't know why what you said got me thinking that way. I've been feeling pretty good for a while, not beholden to what other people think, and even feeling proudly arrogant.


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## JosefinaHW (Nov 21, 2015)

clavichorder said:


> Totally off topic now(and in stark contrast to the joke above) but, it's been a while since I even thought about that. I just had a flash of insecurity because I'm afraid that it is more applicable than I want to admit. But I don't deny that I have a dark side, at least to myself. I just don't show it to many others in most settings, because I am not comfortable sharing the emotions of it, though I can discuss the contents. They are too much for most people, and they got worse at one point because I knew they were too much for most people, and thus felt extreme bitterness at not being able to connect. I don't know why what you said got me thinking that way. I've been feeling pretty good for a while, not beholden to what other people think, and even feeling proudly arrogant.


I think you should feel proud of yourself. It takes a lot of courage to let yourself feel strong emotions and share those experiences with others; if you're not shaming anyone with your arrogant thoughts then be patient with yourself, I think most of us will have to work a lifetime to drive the arrogance out of ourselves! My Friend, I seriously think you should give Cante Flamenco (emphasis on the "cante") a serious chance. Listen to two or three siguiriyas, tientos & tangos, and/or saetas from the CF Thread each day for a few days with just an open mind. You want to talk about strong emotions! and people comfortable with sharing them.....


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## helenora (Sep 13, 2015)

Lenny said:


> Interesting discussion.
> From the classical music I seem to enjoy most absolute music. If there's a clear message, I tend to not like it, or then draw my own conclusions out of it.


agree. But for me still in music with a clear message as you call it, I still can find/ hear a source of aesthetical beauty....it's difficult to explain with words, but it's something which goes beyond a message, something that makes one forget about a message.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I just wish composers themselves would be more like their music.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

hpowders said:


> I just wish composers themselves would be more like their music.


Fortunately, they're mortals like the rest of us. But they've managed to ingite that "spark of divinity" as Cicero once opined.


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## Razumovskymas (Sep 20, 2016)

Having read the biographies of a dozen composers, what I think these composers have in common is that they have an incredibly strong urge to create their art, be it uplifting or dark, regardless the problems they have to encounter. And that for me is always very inspiring apart from the music itself of course. 

As for the music itself I'm not particularly drawn to either "dark" or "uplifting" music. It's the sheer beauty of being able to experience the total abstract beauty of a piece and the incomprehensible way it connects to one's mind.

But yeah sure, when I listen to Liszt I have pictures of women falling on their knees in front of me ;-)


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

As a devoted Sibelian, I am drawn to peaceful lakes and dark forests, but not to brandy and cigars. I listen to a lot of Vaughan Williams and share the old man's love of cats but not his fondness for London. Of other favourite composers, I do not share Rachmaninov's love of fast cars; I do share Borodin's belief in equal opportunities for women; I do not share Moussorgsky's love of booze. 
So adding that lot up - no.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I love Bach's solo keyboard and organ music. It simply makes me feel good. Doesn't change my personality.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I was going to respond with "absolutely not". But that's not entirely true....

For most of the composers I like I don't delve into their biographies in great detail. There are exceptions; I'm sure I'll learn a fair bit about Verdi as I have a book discussing his operas. I happen to overhear maybe Brahms didn't like cats. Well I love Brahms music and I love cats and what have you. I have my own life and own path and not sure why I'd want to emulate some dead guy from the 1800s.

But then I realized I most certainly HAVE been strongly influenced by one of my favorite composers. Not a classical composer, a new age piano performer-composer. Philip Wesley. Two actually, David Nevue being a huge influence as well. It was their music that ultimately spurred me on to pursue playing the piano. I started from scratch, learning to read music myself on my iPad, borrowing a keyboard, then my husband and I bought a piano for our home. I would not have finally made the push to do this were it not for Nevue and Wesley's music and stories.


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