# Where/How to get started with classical music?



## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi guys. I'm very new to classical music, I've been listening to mostly Pop, Country, Rock genres uptil now. Last year I got myself the 50 Greates Pieces of Classical Music and I loved it.

I've been thinking of diving deeper into classical music but had no idea where to start. I stumbled upon this forum and saw this great sticky compilation thread. But it got overwhelming pretty fast.

Where do I actually start? Do I get top 10 or 20 from each category? Or do I get all the works of some composers I like (eg, Mozart)?

Any advice for a noob?


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

This link is one great starting place for beginners. It's arguably the best summary of our community's favorite pieces. You can read more about it here.


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Here are a few easily digestible items to sample - Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake ballet suite, Bizet: L'Arlesienne Suite 2, Beethoven: Fur Elise. If you have already 'tasted' some of those you'll have an idea of what your like. Go for Tchaikovsky Symphonies 4, 5, 6 Debussy's La Mer, Respighi's Pines of Rome. Sample the historical periods - Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Modern on a site like YouTube.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Hi Whip. Welcome. 

The 50 Greatest Pieces of Classical Music likely contains single movements. Pick the ones you like the most, then listen to the whole work.

I was where you are today six months ago. It's a journey. I splashed around a bit but have now got a rhythm, working my way through the canon from medieval to contemporary. Finishing Early Baroque this week, a week of opera next week, then a month of Late Baroque (a week each of Handel, Vivaldi, Telemann and, "Other"). JS Bach awaits after that. I listen to between four and ten new pieces a week.

I created a list based on recommendations from this site, Classic FM, and Digital Dream Door. The principle being that if a piece appeared in the top ten of any genre (symphony, orchestral piece, string quartet, woodwind, piano concerto, oratorio .....), it was probably worth listening to. I've also added the recommendation of Jan Swafford from his book, The Language of the Spirit; an introduction to classical music. Worth a look if you're serious. The Guardian website also has some recommendations. Some of the BBC Radio 3, "Composer of the Week" podcasts might be worth your time.

It won't be quick, but if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly. I know that I tend to over engineer approaches, so fully recognise that my approach won't necessarily meet your needs, but I hope it helps your thinking. Let me know if I can help further.


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

Chilham, I like your approach. Yes I did notice that the 50 Greatest album had 2-4 minute tracks as I was familiar with but the full versions turned out to be much longer . I have been enjoying the full versions of these for a few days now. I think I'll start with the top 10 from the compilation thread and then we'll see.

I do know I'm not interested in Opera and Choral works for now. The rest categories can be explored.

Where do you recommend I get these tracks from? I'm looking for digital downloads (no CDs/Vinyls).


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

I keep Apple in profit. Others here are likely better to provide advice on where to get downloads.

By the way, I tend to find that I'm not enjoying many of the recordings recommended on this site. I don't know why. I've found through trial and error that I tend to prefer the recommendations for which recordings at Gramophone.co.uk. You can find them listed for each composer. Your mileage may vary.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

Most classical music takes repeated listenings to appreciate. That may be why you do not like many of the reccommended works.


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

Yes. Everybody has their own tastes. I see often that Bach is regarded the best composers of classcal era in many "lists" but I like Mozart's work a lot more.

Anyways, I have enough to get started. Thanks all for your inputs.


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## Haabrann (Mar 30, 2019)

My best advice is to pick up on what interest you when you listen to a piece, and then read all you can find about that particular interst. The more you read and listen, the more you will branch out.

For example, do a google search on something like ''Bach mass in b minor best recording'', and then read what people have to say about the matter, maybe a few articles and reviews, some forum search and such. Then get a few recommended recordings, different conductors, and listen to the difference. Then you'll come across the HIP movement, and you can read to your herts content about gut stings, tempi, voices to a part and so on. Before you know it, you're reading in-debt scholary articles about hrpsichord construction through history, and you'll seek out recordings. Then the question might pop into your head ''why is modern contemorary art music so different from this?'', and beore you know it, you're reading about serialism, 12 tone, and seeking out recordings. And from something like this, you'll branch more and more out, and go deeper and deeper into your particular interests.

It is a hell of a ride when you get absorbed, good luck and happy ride!!


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

Whoa I don't want to go that deep into it. Atleast not yet. Thanks for your advice though


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## Haabrann (Mar 30, 2019)

Ha! 

I'm guess you will, sooner or later! What I wrote was just an example, but I find this approach immensly satisfying - it is a kinda combination of experiencing the art aesthetically, and then dive into the why, how and what of it, as a kind of infotainement. Extremely rewarding!


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

ORigel said:


> Most classical music takes repeated listenings to appreciate. That may be why you do not like many of the reccommended works.


I didn't say that I didn't like many of the recommended works.

I said that I didn't enjoy many of the recordings (of the recommended works) that are recommended here.


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## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

there is no universal advice. Just start from anywhere and persevere. Also, these Top Recommended Works on TC contain works on the high tiers that are rather difficult for a beginner. Wagner's Ring might be the best opera, but 16 hours of music is hardly digestable for a newcomer. Likewise, Bach's WTC is hardly a good entry into CM, because it is overwhelming. 

my suggestion is to start slowly, take a single symphony, for example Prokofiev 5 or Bruckner 4 or Dvořák 9 and listen to it repeatedly


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I started with classical music since 1998 in 7th grade(we only have 8 grades before HSchool), I was already nerdy enough to read Lady Chatterleys Lover in English at that time. It is very difficult to answer questions like how I should get to like classical music thing. Just do not push yourself, get along with your current circles of people and interests, unless you decide to become a serious musician, you do not need more advices than just to randomly try on videos or buy some most accessible anthologies.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Whip said:


> Hi guys. I'm very new to classical music, I've been listening to mostly Pop, Country, Rock genres uptil now. Last year I got myself the 50 Greates Pieces of Classical Music and I loved it.
> 
> I've been thinking of diving deeper into classical music but had no idea where to start. I stumbled upon this forum and saw this great sticky compilation thread. But it got overwhelming pretty fast.
> 
> ...


Welcome to TC. I really started getting into classical heavily again the beginning of last year. What helped me was subscribing to a streaming service. I used Amazon Music because they had a free trial at the time. A lot of folks use Spotify. There are a few others people around here like as well. 

From there I went to the top recommended works lists and tried a lot of the works there. Note: a lot of the top works might not be noobie friendly as the lists are compiled from the community here, rather than from new listeners. That said, I listened through a lot of the works in the Top Symphonies, Top Quartets, Top Concertos and streamed some stuff. I ended up finding some things I really liked a lot.

Another tip. When I found a work I wanted to listen to that was in the top of one of those lists, I found that there was usually a top recordings list for that work somewhere on TC. I found that there was a user here named TROUT that ran a big project compiling the top recordings of many of the top works. If you click on advanced search, put the name of the work in the title, put Trout in the user name field and make sure to click search titles only. This will get you there. For example, if you searched for Beethoven's 3rd symphony you would get this: https://www.talkclassical.com/blogs/trout/1662-rr-23-beethoven-symphony.html

Note: some of the favorite works have recordings dating back to the 1930s-1950s. It's kind of fun to listen to some of those scratchy, hissy old recordings as a historical project, but I'd NEVER recommend them to a new listener. Anything from about 1955 on will probably be a decent recording. I'll likely get flamed for my heretical views on this, but I'm a neanderthal and at peace with the fact that I'll never sit at the cool kids table here.

Finally, some personal recommendations:

Beethoven Symphony no 3

Beethoven symphony no 5

Dvorak String Quartet No. 12 "American"

Schubert: String Quartet No. 14 'Death and the Maiden https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7949735--schubert-death-and-the-maiden

Mendelssohn: Violin Concerto in E minor https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7928015--mendelssohn-shostakovich-violin-concertos

Brahms Violin concerto: https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7954375--brahms-violin-concerto-double-concerto

Prokofiev Piano Concerto no 3 https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...piano-concertos-nos-1-and-3-piano-sonata-no-3

Grieg Piano Concerto https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7931905--grieg-schumann-piano-concertos

Vivaldi the Four Seasons https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8404372--vivaldi-le-quattro-stagioni

Holst the Planets https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7932138--holst-the-planets-op-32

Mussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7934424--mussorgsky-pictures-at-an-exhibition-etc

Good luck. I hope this helps.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

There are lots of little gems to found off the beaten track. Don't feel that well trodden symphonies, concertos and quartets are the only place to go. Examples I've stumbled across recently:


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

Wow you guys are super helpful. I guess I was looking for a perfect small set of works that completely represent "classical" music. Maybe that doesn't exist, maybe its not supposed to. 

Thanks for all the tips. I'll use a streaming service to get started although I prefer having mp3s in my phone so I don't have to worry about internet connectivity. Later I can download the Mp3s when I have built up a collection.

And I didn't mind the hissy recordings too much  although I came across some where some bloke was coughing through the entire thing, that was just too much lol


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## Zauberfloete (Dec 2, 2020)

Hello Whip, welcome!  You've already received some very good advice, I'll just throw in my two cents as a non-expert, fellow beginner, based on what I do. 

The 50 GPoCM collection you got has already exposed you to some very famous pieces and composers. I like Chilham suggestion to try and listen to the full versions of the pieces you enjoyed now.

Something else you could do is figure out which pieces you enjoyed the most and go listen to more works by the same composers. For example you mentioned you like Mozart.  I tend to approach classical music this way, i.e. I tend to focus on individual composers and listen to their works over and over again before moving on to "discover" a new one. And while I listen to their works I also like to learn more about the composer's life, the historical context in which they lived, what is notable about their music, and so on. Before covid, I also liked travelling to the places the composer had lived in and worked and so on. If you like this approach, Mozart offers a trove of stuff to keep you occupied, not just his music, but all that has been written about him, documentaries, etc. 

Another approach I use is to focus on period or "style" so to say. For example, I like baroque music a lot. I know some Romantic and contemporary composers and their most famous works, but I haven't moved onto them yet. I still have so much to learn and discover about baroque that I haven't had a chance to devote much time and effort to composers from other periods. This is a more comparative approach, it gives you room to learn about different composers (and their music) at the same time and compare and contrast them too. 

A different way that helps me expand my knowledge of classical music and composers is to look out for any composers or works that have some relationship with anything I am already familiar with or that I enjoy. For example, if there's a film you really enjoyed and there was some classical music in it, you may want to find out what that piece was and who composed it and it's a starting point to go on and discover more... For example, I ended up becoming curious about Grieg (btw, there's two very famous pieces by him in the 50 GPoCM you have ) because of his incidental music for Ibsen's Peer Gynt, which I was already familiar with.

There are also other collections similar to the 50 GPoCM you already have, such as "The 99 Most Essential Allegros" (or Adagios) or "The 99 Most Essential Flute Masterpieces" (or other instruments, such as violin, piano or cello) that can introduce you to new pieces or composers.  Bear in mind that the way a piece is executed can really change how you react to it. I've noticed that pieces I didn't particularly like the first time I heard them, grew on me after listening to them again, or maybe listening to them performed by a different musician/orchestra, because the execution was different.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Whip said:


> Wow you guys are super helpful. I guess I was looking for a perfect small set of works that completely represent "classical" music. Maybe that doesn't exist, maybe its not supposed to.
> 
> Thanks for all the tips. I'll use a streaming service to get started although I prefer having mp3s in my phone so I don't have to worry about internet connectivity. Later I can download the Mp3s when I have built up a collection.
> 
> And I didn't mind the hissy recordings too much  although I came across some where some bloke was coughing through the entire thing, that was just too much lol


Well, I wrote this little piece of advice for a 'starter's list of compositions' a while ago. I keep it under review, but haven't felt the need to alter it in a while.

It's only a place to start. It's not trying to be comprehensive or incredibly wide or especially deep! Definitely, stick toes in water kind of stuff. The various links on that page are to performances of the listed works available on Youtube. So it needn't cost you a cent!


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

AbsolutelyBaching This is it. Exactly what I wanted to hear from an advance enthusiast/pro.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

I heard some homeboiz blastin that s&%"! in a whip!!!:tiphat::wave:


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Whip said:


> AbsolutelyBaching This is it. Exactly what I wanted to hear from an advance enthusiast/pro.


Well, I hope it's a start of sorts -and the start of something really good for you!

Best wishes for your journey of exploration


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## Handelian (Nov 18, 2020)

Hi there! Your likes and dislikes are always a very personal thing but the pieces of classical I started off with (nearly 60 years ago
were:

Tchaikovsky 1st piano concerto

Handel Water music

Beethoven Pastoral Symphony

Happy listening!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Whip said:


> AbsolutelyBaching This is it. Exactly what I wanted to hear from an advance enthusiast/pro.


I would add Beethoven's 7th symphony for your listening pleasure. It's very popular and loved by most classical fans. You might also want to dial up a streaming service with a radio format that plays various pieces to turn yourself on to different works and composers you might enjoy. They probably have something like this at Spotify. And I'm sure you could find something on YouTube.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

starthrower said:


> I would add Beethoven's 7th symphony for your listening pleasure. It's very popular and loved by most classical fans. You might also want to dial up a streaming service with a radio format that plays various pieces to turn yourself on to different works and composers you might enjoy. They probably have something like this at Spotify. And I'm sure you could find something on YouTube.


On the grounds that you can't just say "listen to all Beethoven's symphonies" to a newbie, for that's like being thrown in the deep end and just being told to flap your arms about!, I had a difficult choice to make between the 7th and 8th. I love both. I decided the 8th was marginally the better symphony for someone listening to this stuff for the first time.

The point being is that any 'starter' list like this is inevitably going to miss out on someone's favourite 'must have'. 15 thousand people are likely to say 'I would add...' and then the list isn't a helpful place to start any more, but an intimidating dense forest of God knows what!

The key is to be selective in one's advice, I think, knowing full-well that you cannot possibly recommend everything that should be recommended, because to do so would mean effectively recommending nothing at all.

Thus, I look at my list and think, "God, no French or Italians, Americans or Russians!" But I still think it's an OK place to start discovering things. If you have been exposed to symphonies, concerti, string quartets, operas, oratorios and masses, from no matter how restricted a geographical area, I think that's a good basis to move on from. But don't over-burden the foundations before they've set, is all I would caution!


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Whip said:


> Hi guys. I'm very new to classical music, I've been listening to mostly Pop, Country, Rock genres uptil now. Last year I got myself the 50 Greates Pieces of Classical Music and I loved it.
> 
> I've been thinking of diving deeper into classical music but had no idea where to start. I stumbled upon this forum and saw this great sticky compilation thread. But it got overwhelming pretty fast.
> 
> ...


The lists that have been recommended so far appear to be weighted heavily towards orchestral music. I am a big fan of chamber music. i.e. music made for smaller groups, 2-8 instruments usually. Also, solo piano music is a great place to start.

Here's a dozen of some of my own favorite works from these two genres.

CHAMBER MUSIC
Haydn - String quartets, op. 33
Schubert - String Quartet No. 14 in D minor, known as "Death and the Maiden"
Debussy - String Quartet
Brahms - Clarinet Sonatas, op. 120
Brahms - String Sextets
Stravinsky - Historie du Soldat Suite

SOLO PIANO
Bach - Goldberg Variations
Haydn - Keyboard Sonatas, any
Mozart - Piano Sonatas, any
Beethoven - Piano Sonata, Opus 10: Three Piano Sonatas
Chopin - Preludes
Debussy - Images


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Re: AbsolutelyBaching, it's impossible to know someone else's tastes but I can't see limiting one's listening to Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, starting off. Six Brandenburg Concertos would have been a bit much for myself. Same with the B Minor Mass. And I didn't connect with Mozart at all. But Whip might be different, who knows? That's why I mentioned connecting with an internet radio stream that plays popular repertoire pieces.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

starthrower said:


> Re: AbsolutelyBaching, it's impossible to know someone else's tastes but I can't see limiting one's listening to Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, starting off. Six Brandenburg Concertos would have been a bit much for myself. Same with the B Minor Mass. And I didn't connect with Mozart at all. But Whip might be different, who knows? That's why I mentioned connecting with an internet radio stream that plays popular repertoire pieces.


He doesn't _have_ any informed tastes (for classical music)! That's the point. He's starting out, and he has no idea _where_ to start. And I've explained precisely why I recommend Bach, Beethoven and Mozart: it's _foundational_ stuff. It's in a range of forms and expressive styles that nearly everyone else he's ever going to listen to will be striving to emulate or develop away from.

And the whole premise of that list is that one might not enjoy any of it; indeed, almost certainly won't enjoy all of it... but it's a broad repertoire that gets you in a position to understand and appreciate, by comparing to, everything else. Get your ears accustomed to it, and all else will follow.

I suspect Spotify v. Youtube v. any other content delivery system you could mention is not Whip's issue. _How _to listen to music is probably something I think he's long since worked out. His problem is _what_ to listen to. And endless lists of "Ooh, these are my favourites" are not particularly helpful to someone in that situation, I think. And squabbles about Symphony 7 v 8 is the very last thing he needs, probably. Either would do, but if he picks one versus the other... does it honestly matter at this stage of his journey?

The thing is to help someone start. Not scare them off by a bunch of erudite (and quite probably perfectly true) observations that merely hinder the taking of a first step.

I used to train people to use computer databases. One of my colleagues would want them typing stuff at 120 words per minute by the start of the first morning's tea-break. By contrast, I remember spending the entire morning of one of my first teaching assignments repeatedly turning the computer on and off and on again and talking them through all the POST messages that come up when that happens and whether any of it was a concern or of interest. (Usually not, is the short answer... but they didn't know enough to know that!) Getting typing speeds up was a subsidiary exercise to getting them to not be afraid of computers in the first place. [It was the late 1980s... I doubt we'd need such de-sensitising to computers now, I freely admit!]

The point being: what beginners need is not a lot of choice or clever erudition, but a bit of firm guidance that takes away the initial fear -or the 'Where on Earth do I start?!'- factor. After that, they'll have all the confidence in the world, by themselves, to sort out their future directions.


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

Beethoven's Piano Sonatas were my gateway drug - specifically, the Kempff recording of the Moonlight, Appasionatta, Pathetique and Waldstein sonatas. From there, I then explored Mozart's piano concertos - Brendel on Phillips with the Academy of St.-Martin-In-The-Fields was my first, and while I have preferable recordings now, those still hold a sentimental place for me. From there, I found www.classical.net which recommends popular works from various composers, with recording recommendations, as well as popular works by period.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Re: AbsolutelyBaching, I agree Beethoven 7 or 8 doesn't matter. Whatever piece of music someone connects with will inspire them to keep listening. I only mentioned no.7 because it's an easy one to enjoy. I started with a Reader's Digest box set compilation that my grandfather left after he passed. A few pieces caught my ear and I kept going.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

starthrower said:


> Re: AbsolutelyBaching, I agree Beethoven 7 or 8 doesn't matter. Whatever piece of music someone connects with will inspire them to keep listening. I only mentioned no.7 because it's an easy one to enjoy. I started with a Reader's Digest box set compilation that my grandfather left after he passed. A few pieces caught my ear and I kept going.


And I get that. I really do. (Though I happen to disagree. I think Symphony No. 7 very complicated).

Anyway... _My_ introduction happened to be Carnival of the Animals, Peer Gynt's Morning Mood and Khachaturian's Spartacus, with a dash of Water Music and some Bumblebee Flights thrown in for good measure. We all have our 'ticks' and histories. I just think a lot of people have forgotten what it is not to know this stuff (and that's not directed at you, just a general feeling I get reading most of this thread).

My "list" is no more valid than anyone else's ...except it's explicitly aimed at giving people a good grounding without befuggling them with meaningless choice and a bazillion personal favourites. It was carefully considered. I didn't miss a symphony out because I'd forgotten it, for example. That was my point in replying.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Anyway... _My_ introduction happened to be Carnival of the Animals, Peer Gynt's Morning Mood and Khachaturian's Spartacus, with a dash of Water Music and some Bumblebee Flights thrown in for good measure. We all have our 'ticks' and histories. I just think a lot of people have forgotten what it is not to know this stuff (and that's not directed at you, just a general feeling I get reading most of this thread).


I latched on to many of those famous and popular pieces early on like many of us did. Which is why I never mention two hour choral works or half hour string quartets to newbies. Although I'm sure there are a few people who can grasp pieces like that from the beginning, why present such a huge challenge and investment of concentrated listening from the get go? Better to ease into things a little at a time.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

starthrower said:


> I latched on to many of those famous and popular pieces early on like many of us did. Which is why I never mention two hour choral works or half hour string quartets to newbies. Although I'm sure there are a few people who can grasp pieces like that from the beginning, why present such a huge challenge and investment of concentrated listening from the get go? Better to ease into things a little at a time.


The Brandenburg's aren't huge. Neither are the Mozart symphonies, particularly. And so on.

Come up with your own list, by all means. I've come up with mine because (I fear I may be getting repetitive) they are foundational. As I look back, the bon-bons I grew up with as a seven year old are not, I think, the sort of music I wish I'd been exposed to, nor are they the sorts of trivia I'd subject a sentient adult to, who is just starting out.

I like to think I know what new computer users and classical music listeners alike need to know. And also that I know how not to patronise either of them.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

My introduction to classical was Shosty's 5th/9th/10th symphonies, the Vaughan Williams 9th symphony, Bach's Goldberg Variations, Ravel's string quartet, and Diamond's 3rd symphony.


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

AbsolutelyBaching You are a great teacher. Indeed you know/still remember what its like to be just starting out. And I do agree, Bach, Beethoven and Mozart are foundational as I read wikipedia pages of many other composers, they all took inspiration from atleast one of these three.

Now that I know a little bit about this field, excuse me for giving you advice on your article but here's what I think a future newbie might like to hear as he/she is thinking "Where the hell do I start?". I would've liked to hear a brief history of classical music, how it started and how it progressed, how are they structured (like most works are structured in 4-6 pieces) and what they represent. I'd also like to hear some explanation of what symphonies and chamber music and string quartets are. Finally, a *small* list of examples to get one started.

Although I appreciate people taking the time to recommend stuff they like, I feel like it doesn't really makes thing clear. I feel like I'm randomly starting from somewhere. Don't get me wrong, that might work out fine but personally I'd like to jump in the pool with understanding of the concepts of swimming - so to speak. The examples posted are all very good though, I noticed most of them appear high on the list in the compilation thread.


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## GraemeG (Jun 30, 2009)

I've tended to think it best to start with the more popular stuff - not patronising though - then suggest working deeper. Especially since many people's nearest experience of classical music is via film. Rather than, say, the more pedagogue-like Bach/Mozart stream. For someone middle-age or younger, I'd suggest things like Firebird, Tchaikovsky PC1, Planets, Dvorak 9, Unfinished, Beethoven 5, Scheherazade, Rach PC2. For smaller forces Moonlight Sonata, American Quartet, Death & the Maiden, Bach BWV565. These are all popular (without being 'lollipops') for a reason. Find a hook there, then go exploring.

I agree there's no sure-fire path. Easier if you know the person - what they might like or dislike. It's way easier these days anyway - there's no end of stuff for free on you-tube; explore there with a list of names. A long way from the era when you took pot-luck at the radio or plonked down big bucks for an LP!


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## Whip (Dec 22, 2020)

GraemeG said:


> A long way from the era when you took pot-luck at the radio or plonked down big bucks for an LP!


That is a blessing.


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## Haabrann (Mar 30, 2019)

I wouldn't worry about stuff being too ''complicated'' or ''overwhelming'' or long, massive choral works. It wasn't like that for me in the beginning, and I came directly from rock and jazz. It is like great literature, it can be read on so many levels. The immediate aesthetic experience in a piece like, say, Bach mass inn b minor, should be accessible to most people who have an actual interest, and then you can go deeper later, and grow with the music. The more you put in, the more you get out.

To ''grasp'' this music, I'd say you'd need at least a master degree in music theory, or many years of performing, or even composing. But there are many ways to get the most one can out of it. For example reading about the history of the time period, appropriate music theory on a general interest level, composer biographies, performance practices and so on and on. To me at least, the reading and the listening feed each other, and broaden the experience. If you take an interest in this, the great works will live with you through your life, and you'll return with ever more ''input'', and get ever more ''output'' from it.


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

starthrower said:


> . Six Brandenburg Concertos would have been a bit much for myself. Same with the B Minor Mass.


Yes, I don't know ...about the recommendations to *start* with the B Minor Mass, certainly not with music as complex and dense as that in the Kyrie and Gloria.

But the Brandenburg Concertos, nos. 2 and 5 certainly worked for me and a few others I knew.


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## Skakner (Oct 8, 2020)

Whip said:


> Hi guys. I'm very new to classical music...
> Any advice for a noob?


If you want to have a progressive and linear approach to classical music, all you need (for the beginning) is stuff like _*50 Greatest Pieces of Classical Music*_.

For now STAY AWAY from _*Talk Classical's Favorite Works*_ and *Compilation of the TC Top Recommended Lists*. These are preferences from people with years (or decades) of listening experience. If and when you mature as a listener, then try them.

I see recommendations like
_Bach - B Minor Mass, 
Beethoven - String Quartet Op. 132
Brahms - Ein Deutsches Requiem
Britten - Peter Grimes
Schonberg - Verklarte Nacht_

With all due respect, reccomendations like these, 99% discourage the newcomer.
Complete _Mahler Symphonies_ 99% discourage the newcomer... (I would try specific movements instead)
Complete _Bruckner Symphonies_ 99% discourage the newcomer... (I would try specific movements like Scherzi instead)
Bach's _Art of the Fugue_, or complete _Well Tempered Clavier_ 99% discourage the newcomer... 
Complete (Wagner!!!) _Operas_ 99% discourage the newcomer...
Complete Chamber Works 99% discourage the newcomer...

For the beginning, you don't need full works, you don't need much chamber music, opera, contemporary music unless you already enjoy them (most newcomers don't).
You don't even need many slow movements (Adagios etc)!!

For these first steps, stick to the composer or subgenre (orchestral, piano etc) or period (baroque, romantic etc) that you enjoy the most. Don't feel like you have the obligation to enjoy all the composers, all the subgenres, all the periods the same. That's never gonna happen. With your listening experience growing, you may (or not!) feel the need for something different, something more complex etc.

Try stuff like these...











Many years ago, I had created a list for newcomers in classical music. Selected composers, selected parts of selected works etc. In most of the cases it worked. I'll try to find it. It should be helpful.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Alinde said:


> Yes, I don't know ...about the recommendations to *start* with the B Minor Mass, certainly not with music as complex and dense as that in the Kyrie and Gloria.
> 
> But the Brandenburg Concertos, nos. 2 and 5 certainly worked for me and a few others I knew.


The specific point I had in mind was "Bach as devout, sacred choral master" versus "Bach as dance master". IE, that he can be fun as well as serious. Getting people across the vast breadth of what classical music can say.

Also to get some of the "big stuff" ticked off that you are likely to hear people talk about: if everyone around you is deep in discussion about "the B minor", and all you can bring to the party is, "I quite liked the Flight of the Bumblebee", you're going to be starting out feeling inadequate! If you can listen in on "big work talk" and at least have a clue about what they're talking about, I think that's a good way to build self-confidence.

Anyway. We all have different ideas on how to get started. Those were mine. I don't claim they're perfect. I do claim that I put a lot of thought into them.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> The specific point I had in mind was "Bach as devout, sacred choral master" versus "Bach as dance master". IE, that he can be fun as well as serious. Getting people across the vast breadth of what classical music can say...........


You're right AB, I find that Bminor mass terrible to dance to.....


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Skakner said:


> ...
> 
> I see recommendations like
> _Bach - B Minor Mass,
> ...


With all due respect in turn, you've misconstrued things a little. The Brahms, Britten and Schönberg are not on my primary recommendations to which you are referring. They are what I suggest you might listen to after you've got the foundations laid, not before.

And my mailbox tells me your 99% figure is out. By about 99%.

But that's not really the reason I'm replying, since opinions on repertoire will always vary. It's this next comment of yours



Skakner said:


> For the beginning, you don't need full works, you don't need much chamber music, opera, contemporary music except you already enjoy them (most newcomers don't).
> You don't even need many slow movements (Adagios etc)!!


That's what I would call the "Classics FM" (or even "the dumbed down Radio 3") school of music acquisition: let's only play the sonic bon-bons, so everyone is kept "engaged".

Classical music is all about listening to the slow bits as well as the fast bits. And works that take half an hour, not five minutes. If you want fast stuff that lasts a few minutes... the entire world of *non-classical* music awaits! I think any approach that pretends that classical music comes in nice bite-size chunks and you don't really have to learn how to concentrate or find beauty and enjoyment in slow stillness is mis-selling what the essence of classical music really is.

Yes, that means listening to whole works, including the slow bits, is more of a challenge. But in my experience, people express an interest in learning how to listen to classical music precisely because they want to be challenged out of the 5-minute show-stopper mode common in non-classical music, and they want to be 'elevated' by the experience -that is, feel as if they've achieved something- not feel as if they're being talked down to.

It is different, I think, for children as compared to adults. But an adult who has asked for an introduction to classical music should not, in my opinion, be fed disembodied chunks of things, but should be treated seriously with a challenging programme of listening that _respects_ them as much as the works they're being introduced to.

Anyway. Having said that, I suspect my work in this thread is done, so Happy Christmas!


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

mikeh375 said:


> You're right AB, I find that Bminor mass terrible to dance to.....


Really? I am forever making a bouncing nuisance of myself at the _Et resurrexit_!


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

AbsolutelyBaching said:


> Really? I am forever making a bouncing nuisance of myself at the _Et resurrexit_!


AB try the quickstep to the 1st mvt. of Brandenburg no2, now _that's_ doable. Seriously though, Bill Bailey and Oti Mabuse didn't dance to the Bmin Mass on 'Strictly' so that should tell you something....sorry OP.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

It seems there's many a thumb stuck in braces. 

The first piece I listened to as part of my "journey"? Bach's Mass in B minor. Listened to five extracts. Decided I preferred Herreweghe. Listened all the way through four times. Loved it.

Whip, don't let anyone tell you what you will and won't be able to appreciate. Use your own compass to guide you on what you enjoy and like to listen to. I like AB's suggested approach. Go for it.


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## Haabrann (Mar 30, 2019)

Beyond recommendations to this particular TS, this is an interseting subject.

For comparison, take a work like Dante's Divina Commedia. A work of great complexity and great aesthetic. This would be basically meaningless to a first reader who isn't well schooled in medieval history and philosophy. Starting with this with no background would be entirely pointless.

A piece like Bach mass in B minor, just as an example, would be of comparable complexity, comparably dense with context and references to music theory and history (I presume, as I'm only a generally interested member of the public in this regard).

But music, at least in the common practise era, has an immediate aesthetic accessibility on a basic level. I'd rather compare it to Shakespeare. Anyone can read the great tragedies at an immediate level, simply as great stories. The you can take a PhD in Shakespeare, and read the plays at an order of magnitude different level from just the story layer.

To find a more appropriate comparison to Divina Comedia, I'm tinking more of contemprary hard-core pling-plong stuff. Much of that makes me really uncomfortable, like trapped in a nightmare, because I'm not equipped to really understand it.


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

:lol: .....................


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I'd recommend buying cheap box sets of core repertoire (cheap stuff is generally safe, since it's often re-issued "reference" recordings).

Bach: Piano/harpsichord music
Beethoven: Symphonies, String Quartets, Piano Sonatas
Mozart: Piano Concertos, Major Operas on cd/dvd
Schubert: Late string quartets
Chopin: Piano Music
Brahms: Piano Music, Chamber Music, Symphonies
Major operas by Verdi, Puccini, and Wagner on cd/dvd
Mahler: Symphonies, Das Lied von der Erde
Debussy: Piano and Chamber Music
Sibelius: Symphonies
Scriabin: Piano Music
Rachmaninov: Piano and Orchestral Music 
Stravinsky: Orchestral Music
Shostakovich: Piano Music, String Quartets, Concertos
Ligeti: Piano, Chamber and Orchestral Music

There's lots else under the sun (some of my favorite cds are not included here), but that's probably where I'd begin if I was doing so "from scratch." In any case, I'm not trying to spend _too_ much of your money lol!


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

No golden paths to enlightenment

I'm just messing around, but I guess my point is that, nowadays with music listening services, internet search tools, forums like this, YouTube, etc. it's like being a kid in a candy store with an unlimited budget.

You might consider an internet search of "classical music standard repertoire" for ideas as well.

Happy Hunting!


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