# Scott Ross recordings of Scarlatti



## JeffD

There is a box set of Scott Ross playing all 555 keyboard sonatas.

All on harpsichord.

I have the 20 NAXOS CDs of Scarlatti's keyboard sonatas, on piano, played by various artists. 


I have read some mixed reviews about the Ross recordings. Less than inspired playing, mic too close to harpsichord, whatever. Just Amazon reviewers. I don't know whether to pay attention to them.

Ross was the first to record all 555, and that, according to some, is the primary achievement. 


Some thoughts. Have you heard Ross? What do you think. I might just get it anyway, it won't break the bank, but I value your input.


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## jegreenwood

JeffD said:


> There is a box set of Scott Ross playing all 555 keyboard sonatas.
> 
> All on harpsichord.
> 
> I have the 20 NAXOS CDs of Scarlatti's keyboard sonatas, on piano, played by various artists.
> 
> I have read some mixed reviews about the Ross recordings. Less than inspired playing, mic too close to harpsichord, whatever. Just Amazon reviewers. I don't know whether to pay attention to them.
> 
> Ross was the first to record all 555, and that, according to some, is the primary achievement.
> 
> Some thoughts. Have you heard Ross? What do you think. I might just get it anyway, it won't break the bank, but I value your input.


Sheesh are you demanding.  27 out of the 30 Amazon reviews are 5 stars! (Two are 4 stars. The 1 star reviewer had a problem with the physical disc.)

I have a three disc (56 sonata) selection from the complete set. I love it.


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## Bulldog

I think that the set is a must for anyone who loves Scarlatti's music and doesn't have a problem with listening to a harpsichord.


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## Mandryka

The set is like 555 short rides in a fast machine. 

Style is linear, fast and motoric, short on chiaroscuro, dreaminess, colour, irony, relief, variety of attack, subtlety of phrasing. Sound quality is close but not unlistenable. The harpsichords he chose are OK IMO. 

He knew he was seriously ill when he recorded the music, that he may run out of time. Maybe that’s why he chose to play so fast all the time, and why there’s so little subtlety.


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> Style is linear, fast and motoric, short on chiaroscuro, dreaminess, colour, irony, relief, variety of attack, subtlety of phrasing. Sound quality is close but not unlistenable. The harpsichords he chose are OK IMO.


Precisely, with a hyperactive sameness, which becomes grueling in the long run, and 555 sonatas certainly is a long run.


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## bigshot

I have this set and it's great on shuffle play mixed in with other stuff. However the discs are normalized up really loud so they don't shuffle well. The harpsichord has such a narrow dynamic range, it can sound too loud if you play it at normal volumes.


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## DarkAngel

Bulldog said:


> I think that the set is a must for anyone who loves Scarlatti's music and doesn't have a problem with listening to a harpsichord.


Agree, masterful acheivement by Ross that I find nearly ideal judgement of tempo and bravura style, not rushed at all for me and the lifted tempos and flair certainly would be heard by the composer himself playing these exciting pieces ......I am very impressed by the high musical standard maintained over long recording period

Personally I prefer Scarlatti played on harpsicord, the piano versions just seem flat by comparison.....



> To celebrate the 300th anniversary of Scarlatti's birth in 1985, French radio asked Ross to perform the composer's complete sonatas, for broadcast in a series of weekly programs. He recorded two sonatas a day over a period of 15 months in 1984/85. Many had never been recorded before, even though a limited selection had been featured in the repertoire of major pianists--including Horowitz, Michelangeli, Gieseking, Haskil and Gilels--for decades. Most of the recordings were made on four different harpsichords (Italian and French), to ensure a variety of timbre at the Paris studios of Radio France.


For fast tempo the new Hantai Mirare series is thrilling but can get a bit out of shape when pressed that hard, still scarlatti should be played with flair and style....not for the timid


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## DarkAngel

bigshot said:


> I have this set and it's great on shuffle play mixed in with other stuff. However the discs are normalized up really loud so they don't shuffle well. *The harpsichord has such a narrow dynamic range*, it can sound too loud if you play it at normal volumes.


You can cheat and add some bass tilt to sound EQ to give the instrument a fuller richer sound, I admit to doing this sometimes


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## Bulldog

DarkAngel said:


> You can cheat and add some bass tilt to sound EQ to give the instrument a fuller richer sound, I admit to doing this sometimes


That's not cheating. The controls are there to get the maximum enjoyment out of a recording.


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## DarkAngel

Bulldog said:


> That's not cheating. The controls are there to get the maximum enjoyment out of a recording.


Indeed......I am guilty as charged


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## premont

Bulldog said:


> That's not cheating. The controls are there to get the maximum enjoyment out of a recording.


My NAIM kit has got no sound EQ controls. NAIM thinks that the use of such devises would distort their very neutral and analytical sound. In a way they are right.


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## Mandryka

DarkAngel said:


> Agree, masterful acheivement by Ross that I find nearly ideal judgement of tempo and bravura style, not rushed at all for me and the lifted tempos and flair certainly would be heard by the composer himself playing these exciting pieces ......I am very impressed by the high musical standard maintained over long recording period
> 
> Personally I prefer Scarlatti played on harpsicord, the piano versions just seem flat by comparison.....
> 
> For fast tempo the new Hantai Mirare series is thrilling but can get a bit out of shape when pressed that hard, still scarlatti should be played with flair and style....not for the timid











Try to hear his first Scarlatti recordings on Stil, made in 1976. I'll upload them for you if you want, if I remember right he uses the Assas harpsichord. If you like fast and colourful, which you seem to, them let me take the opportunity of recommending Klosiewicz









(Somehow an image of the preamp in my main system has got in here, I have it with slight bass lift and tilted to one direction, I never use the filters, or rarely)


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## JSBach85

I would strongly recommend Scott Ross box set for Scarlatti keyboard works, is the one I own at this moment. I want to remember to everybody that today we know that in 18th century it was a fairly common practice to play faster that what was wrongly believed decades ago and since Scarlatti had been living in Spain, I want to remember you that "Domingo" Scarlatti (Domingo was the name given in Spain) was strongly influenced by spanish tradition. If someone is further interested in this, just listen to Antonio Soler harpsichord sonatas to see the influence of Domingo on this composer.

One of the reasons that in 18th century music was played faster than we usually believed in other decades may be because of the violence of this period, full of wars, diseases, but this is just a conjecture, there are probably more reasons better justified.


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## jegreenwood

I really wish this set would show up on Tidal. (It's not on Spotify either.) As I mentioned, I have a 3 disc/56 sonata "sampler." I also have other Scarlatti recordings on harpsichord and piano as well as transcriptions for guitar. As much as I enjoy this music, I don't need to own another 30 discs.

Update - I just downloaded a three disc set of Pierre Hantai's Scarlatti from PrestoClassical. $21 for CD quality FLAC (or $20.75 plus shipping if I waited for the physical media). Not a super bargain, but not bad.


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## bigshot

If they released it to streaming, they would need to remaster it. The way the CDs are mastered would never work in a playlist. The harpsichord would blast at a massive volume over any other kind of music. I had to reduce the volume of the tracks by 8-10dB to get them to work.


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## Josquin13

I enjoy Scott Ross's Scarlatti. Though, if pressed, I generally prefer Pierre Hantai and Pieter-Jan Belder in this music (among harpsichord recordings)--& especially Hantai, who is brilliant (& at very his best) in Scarlatti. Like Ross, Belder has recorded all of the sonatas in a complete set for Brilliant. I also enjoy a single disc from harpsichordist Fabio Bonizzoni of the last Scarlatti sonatas (which, as it has turned out, I play more than Ross's box set): https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-La...D=51rT4yXuW%2BL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-D-...pID=51voCgot84L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Ha..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=MPK74V4BZ07SK48QBK8E
https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Ha..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=MPK74V4BZ07SK48QBK8E

Those are the Scarlatti recordings that I find myself reaching for most (along with Tomsic, Horowitz, Black, & Pogorelich on the piano)--plus, a single "Best Sonatas" Scarlatti disc drawn from Ross's box set; which, IMO, represents some of his finest Scarlatti playing (so you may want to sample this inexpensive CD before you take the $ plunge):

https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Be...0&keywords=scott+ross+belle+sonatas+scarlatti

(There's also a more extensive 3 CD "Anthology" import release of some of Ross's better recordings from the set: https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-An...pID=41TCS5K7NRL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)

However, I admit that Ross's Scarlatti is legendary (as he was the first to record all of the sonatas, on 34 CDs) and the box set is presently a super bargain at $58 on Amazon--a price that won't likely last forever. I can remember when it cost well over $200 at Tower Records decades ago, or was it $300-400?

https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Co..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=A4FATB7MM41D727P40VR

Edit: Unfortunately, I see that the pricing of the two complete sets has reversed from what it was a few years ago, when the Ross set was the more expensive one to buy: as the 'discount' Belder set has now become very pricey--so scratch that recommendation, unless you can find it at a reasonable price (maybe used?):

https://www.amazon.com/Scarlatti-Co...D=41%2BVQ0fhd8L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


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## Rmathuln

I wish Warner Clasics would issue the incomplete but extremely satisfying recordings of Luciano Sgrizzi on CD. There were three 3 LP boxes. Some of my favorite Scarlatti.


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## jegreenwood

bigshot said:


> If they released it to streaming, they would need to remaster it. The way the CDs are mastered would never work in a playlist. The harpsichord would blast at a massive volume over any other kind of music. I had to reduce the volume of the tracks by 8-10dB to get them to work.


You need to get a Google Home (or Echo). When a track is too loud I simply call out "Hey, Google. Softer." 

Actually, I just used JRiver's audio analyze feature to compare all of my keyboard recordings of Scarlatti, harpsichord and piano. Looked to me as if they were at comparable levels. It may be because I have an earlier mastering of the recordings, purchased in the late 80s/early 90s.


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## Mandryka

JSBach85 said:


> I would strongly recommend Scott Ross box set for Scarlatti keyboard works, is the one I own at this moment. I want to remember to everybody that today we know that in 18th century it was a fairly common practice to play faster that what was wrongly believed decades ago and since Scarlatti had been living in Spain, I want to remember you that "Domingo" Scarlatti (Domingo was the name given in Spain) was strongly influenced by spanish tradition. If someone is further interested in this, just listen to Antonio Soler harpsichord sonatas to see the influence of Domingo on this composer.
> 
> One of the reasons that in 18th century music was played faster than we usually believed in other decades may be because of the violence of this period, full of wars, diseases, but this is just a conjecture, there are probably more reasons better justified.


You may be right. A good example to take is 404, an andante, just compare Ross and Belder, I think Ross is just inexpressive, monochromatic and unnuanced, part of the reason is to do with speed, but not the whole reason. Belder's better imo, very much better.


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## Bulldog

Mandryka said:


> You may be right. A good example to take is 404, an andante, just compare Ross and Belder, I think Ross is just inexpressive, monochromatic and unnuanced, part of the reason is to do with speed, but not the whole reason. Belder's better imo, very much better.


I have a different take on their respective performances of K 404. Ross gives the piece some energy and verve. Belder is quite slow and plodding; when listening, I keep asking him to show some spunk and move the music along. Yes, nuance is very nice in music that well accommodates it, but either K 404 isn't in that category or Belder just doesn't do anything positive with his slower tempo.


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## Mandryka

Bulldog said:


> Yes, nuance is very nice in music that well accommodates it, but either K 404 isn't in that category or Belder just doesn't do anything positive with his slower tempo.


Well that begs the question. Belder is very beautiful at about 2 mins for example. And I think there's something wonderfully languid about Belder's interpretation, a languid andante. But we seem to be agreed that Belder is more nuanced at least, and yes, Ross is faster.


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## Bulldog

Mandryka said:


> Well that begs the question. Belder is very beautiful at about 2 mins for example. And I think there's something wonderfully languid about Belder's interpretation, a languid andante. But we seem to be agreed that Belder is more nuanced at least, and yes, Ross is faster.


I'll agree that Belder attempts to be nuanced, but I don't feel he pulls it off. I played the Belder again to listen to the music's beauty at about the 2 minute mark, and I didn't hear it. Frankly, I don't find K 404 to be one of Scarlatti's more compelling sonatas, at least not in the Belder or Ross interpretations.


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## DarkAngel

Doesn't the Belder box for Brilliant contain a section of sonatas that uses fortepiano and is not well recorded?

As mentioned previously the Belder set is now OOP and insanely expensive used at Amazon (ironic on budget label Brilliant) so the only real choice for complete set now is Ross, unless you consider Lester on Nimbus label but I like that even less than Belder.....

Ross > Belder > Lester boxes










Also would be nice of Brilliant label to collect all Belder recordings of Padre Soler sonatas and issue a budget priced boxset......


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## Rmathuln

DarkAngel said:


> Doesn't the Belder box for Brilliant contain a section of sonatas that uses fortepiano and is not well recorded?
> 
> As mentioned previously the Belder set is now OOP and insanely expensive used at Amazon (ironic on budget label Brilliant) so the only real choice for complete set now is Ross, unless you consider Lester on Nimbus label but I like that even less than Belder.....
> 
> Ross > Belder > Lester boxes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also would be nice of Brilliant label to collect all Belder recordings of Padre Soler sonatas and issue a budget priced boxset......


Belder's Soler series is in a single box

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SKER31C/


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## Mandryka

DarkAngel said:


> Doesn't the Belder box for Brilliant contain a section of sonatas that uses fortepiano and is not well recorded?
> 
> As mentioned previously the Belder set is now OOP and insanely expensive used at Amazon (ironic on budget label Brilliant) so the only real choice for complete set now is Ross, unless you consider Lester on Nimbus label but I like that even less than Belder.....
> 
> Ross > Belder > Lester boxes


If you tell me which ones he pays on piano I'll check the sound.

My own feeling is that it's not a good idea to buy a complete Scarlatti especially when all the sonatas are, I guess, on YouTube. Better to explore recital discs with individual approaches.

Yesterday when I was thinking about 404 I listened to Lester play it, I thought it was very strange indeed and I'd be curious to know what others make of it.


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## Mandryka

Rmathuln said:


> I wish Warner Clasics would issue the incomplete but extremely satisfying recordings of Luciano Sgrizzi on CD. There were three 3 LP boxes. Some of my favorite Scarlatti.


There is some of his Scarlatti available on a label called Accord Baroque, what instrument is that that he's using - a revival harpsichord?


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## Bulldog

Mandryka said:


> Yesterday when I was thinking about 404 I listened to Lester play it, I thought it was very strange indeed and I'd be curious to know what others make of it.


I just finished listening to Lester's 404. It's even slower than Belder's but quite different. Lester offers a smoother flow to the music with a lot less edge than Belder. Actually, Lester reminds me of the pianist Zacharias.


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## Mandryka

I just found this 404 with Carlo Grante, 10 minutes plus, I think not unattractive at all, lyrical, maybe this one is best on piano. He makes it into music where nothing much happens, a _flânerie_.


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## premont

There is a fourth option for complete Scarlatti on harpsichord: Gilbert Rowland. I haven't explored him, and freely admit, that my interest in Scarlatti isn't that great (I already own the Ross and Belder boxes and maybe about 25 other individual Scarlatti CDs - that's enough for me). Does anybody know more about Rowland?


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> There is some of his Scarlatti available on a label called Accord Baroque, what instrument is that that he's using - a revival harpsichord?


I recall an LP (Nonesuch - I think) I owned more than thirty years ago containing Scarlatti sonatas played by Sgrizzi. Brilliant and a bit harsh - though not as much as Ross. Without doubt he played a revival instrument.


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## Mandryka

premont said:


> There is a fourth option for complete Scarlatti on harpsichord: Gilbert Rowland. I haven't explored him, and freely admit, that my interest in Scarlatti isn't that great (I already own the Ross and Belder boxes and maybe about 25 other individual Scarlatti CDs - that's enough for me). Does anybody know more about Rowland?


I've got volumes 2 and 3, I'll let you have them them later, I blow hot and cold, mostly I like what I hear, but this is saying more about me than about Gilbert Rowland. Anyway you mentioning them will prompt me to get them out.


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## JSBach85

premont said:


> that my interest in Scarlatti isn't that great


Let me to point out that Domenico Scarlatti also composed a very beautiful Stabat Mater a 10 voci with an elaborated counterpoint and strongly influenced by polyphony.

D. Scarlatti - Stabat Mater. Concerto Italiano / Rinaldo Alessandrini.














Still today is among my favourite sacred works recordings.


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## DarkAngel

DarkAngel said:


> You can cheat and add some bass tilt to sound EQ to give the instrument a fuller richer sound, I admit to doing this sometimes












Puyana for HM 2CD set uses beautiful 3 manual black key 1740 Hass instrument, listen to the deep throated low range on that beast, this was first set I can remember getting of Scarlatti sonatas......extra bass not needed

Piano can never capture the same spirit.......

[


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## JSBach85

I am here just to say that I purchased Scarlatti Keyboard Sonatas by Scott Ross around 8 years ago and still today is probably my favourite box set. I am now listening to all volumes again, I am now listening to volume 7 and I have nothing more to say that I really enjoy the sound of the harpsichords used in those recordings, the excellent and lively playing of Scott Ross and the great sound quality of these recordings.


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## Mandryka

JSBach85 said:


> I am here just to say that I purchased Scarlatti Keyboard Sonatas by Scott Ross around 8 years ago and still today is probably my favourite box set. I am now listening to all volumes again, I am now listening to volume 7 and I have nothing more to say that I really enjoy the sound of the harpsichords used in those recordings, the excellent and lively playing of Scott Ross and the great sound quality of these recordings.


It's an instrument at Château d'Assas, near Montpellier. The harpsichord was also used by Frédérick Haas in his recording of later Scarlatti sonatas. It became a favourite instrument of Ross's. I think he used it all the time part from in his first Scarlatti recording.

Haas gave a concert recently at Assas, which you can hear here

https://www.francemusique.fr/emissi...t-2018-63552?xtmc=Scarlatti 555&xtnp=1&xtcr=1


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## JSBach85

Mandryka said:


> It's an instrument at Château d'Assas, near Montpellier. The harpsichord was also used by Frédérick Haas in his recording of later Scarlatti sonatas. It became a favourite instrument of Ross's. I think he used it all the time part from in his first Scarlatti recording.
> 
> Haas gave a concert recently at Assas, which you can hear here
> 
> https://www.francemusique.fr/emissi...t-2018-63552?xtmc=Scarlatti 555&xtnp=1&xtcr=1


Thank you for the information since I couldn't find it in the booklet in a quick look. Do you know if the instrument is authentic?


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## Mandryka

JSBach85 said:


> Thank you for the information since I couldn't find it in the booklet in a quick look. Do you know if the instrument is authentic?


I don't know how to answer the question in fact! It has been restored since Ross recorded with it and I think now it makes a sound with denser harmonies. Elisabeth Joyé's Duphly is a good place to hear the restored instrument.

What I'm not clear about is how similar it is to the harpsichords Scarlatti was writing for. Nor do I know whether the Assas instrument went through a ravalement of any kind.


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## christomacin

I am missing a disc from the original 34 CD set (Box IV, Disc 3). Anybody have an incomplete set laying around?


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