# Obscure Galante Composers



## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Thought it would be interesting to do some searches for Galante as well. I know Dittersdorf is pretty good at this. Some other names worth checking? Mainly interested in Symphonies and Concertos. Early Mozart, Carl Stamitz, and early Boccherini have this sound imo. Not so much Haydn though. He was more mellow imo. At least that's how I hear it.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Uh... hmmm Antonio Caldara? 

This isn't my area of expertise.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

I guess this is a pretty good list. http://www.last.fm/music/Carl+Ditters+von+Dittersdorf/+similar I can be thankful for last.fm for being able to find out stuff like this. Once you find one obscure Composer with this exact style... Though I guess many are just obscure Classical Era Composers as well post-galante or late Baroque.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

This one tilts slightly more towards Baroque. http://www.last.fm/music/Wilhelm+Friedemann+Bach/+similar


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm especially fond of Dittersdorf's Harp Concerto.

You might find Michael Haydn's works a little bit more turbulent than his more famous brother's music. M. Haydn's masses are exquisite, and his symphonies have extraordinary moments.






We can easily hear the undercurrent of the work as coming from the same tradition as F.J. Haydn's works, but they tend to be more intense, in my opinion.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Hmmm... "Obscure Galante Composers." Is there another kind?


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Giuseppe Baldassare Sammartini is an excellent example of this style (as I had previously posted on KenOC's Galante thread).


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## bejart (Nov 16, 2012)

Much of what I enjoy could be considered Galante, or early Classical. You've already mentioned one Stamitz, the others could also be included -- Johann and Anton. Also, the Sammartini brothers, Carl Friedrich Abel, Giovanni Paisiello, JC Bach, Franz Beck and the Bendas. Others too, but it's late and I'm fading ---

Thanks for the links above. I'm not sure I agree with the assessments therein, but it certainly looks worth exploring.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm not too familiar with that period in particular. Is Chevalier de Saint-George galante?


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## bejart (Nov 16, 2012)

Joseph Boulogne, Chevalier de St.George died in 1799, so he might be considered as composing after the rather arbitrary label 'Galante'. Generally thought to be from 1730-1770, it consciously avoided the contrapuntal writing that characterized the Baroque period. The 'Sturm und Drang' movement followed it, from 1760-1780, still part of the broader Classical era.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't particularly enjoy Galante style music apart from the composers of the Mannheim school who really developed orchestral writing with innovations such as the crescendo etc.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I don't particularly enjoy Galante style music apart from the composers of the Mannheim school who really developed orchestral writing with innovations such as the crescendo etc.


Galante is awesome. The rockers of the Classical Era.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Galante is awesome. The rockers of the Classical Era.


Well, your opinion is *WRONG.*TM
The Sturm und Drang composers were the real rockers!


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Not much difference imo. Both were Baroque influenced. It was after Sturm und drang that alienated me though there wasn't much Sturm und drang music available. Basically just CPE Bach. All that fluffy music afterwards though. Beethoven being the exception as he was in a different world from what was popular at that time.


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## Faell (Jan 5, 2013)

Another less known galant composer is the German/Swedish composer Joseph Martin Kraus. I do recommend his symphonies, e.g. his Symphony in C minor:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Faell said:


> Another less known galant composer is the German/Swedish composer Joseph Martin Kraus. I do recommend his symphonies, e.g. his Symphony in C minor:


I'm not sure if he's early enough stylistically to be considered Galante. I know his music well and I think his music heads more towards the Sturm und Drang style and music proceeding that.


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## Faell (Jan 5, 2013)

Owh, I thought that you mean with 'galant' the whole 'classical era'. The term 'galant' is often used in literature to describe the era of music after Bach and ending with Beethoven and Schubert. You are right that this symphony is more "Sturm und Drang" than "Galant" if we don't use "Galant" to describe the whole era.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

KenOC said:


> Hmmm... "Obscure Galante Composers." Is there another kind?


Yeah since Mozart is so obscure.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Faell said:


> Owh, I thought that you mean with 'galant' the whole 'classical era'. The term 'galant' is often used in literature to describe the era of music after Bach and ending with Beethoven and Schubert. You are right that this symphony is more "Sturm und Drang" than "Galant" if we don't use "Galant" to describe the whole era.


I prefer the term _Rococo_ to describe the composers Neo described as _Galante._


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Anyway the best way I can define whatever style you call it is a simplified music where the harpsichord goes in a frenzy with 16th notes. The first movement of Symphony 5 being that. Like this...




But I think Mozart created the best galante/rococo or whatever you call it. Stamitz and Boccherini not so bad either.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

This ain't _too_ bad, I had to study it last year for school.






It is quite a nice opening movement but it doesn't use many chords other than the tonic and dominant which really drives me up the wall. The development section is where it really gets good.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

My Boccherini cd arrived today and I'm looking forward to listening to it, probably next week sometime  He isn't that obscure, but hey...

I'll have to look into Kraus, he seems popular...


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Well Neo, I feel like I'd be pulling all the same names out of the hat, like I usually do.

For that sort of lesser known lighter Vienese classicism, *Leopold Kozeluch* is a good example if you haven't given him much attention. But he is more full fledged classicist(later Mozart and Haydn are significantly more "full fledged" yet of course, so its relative) than gallant.

I have recommended Franz Xaver Richter before. He's another Czech like Kozeluch, I think, and he was associated with J. Stamitz, but his works actually have counterpoint and baroque inspiration.

Carlos Baquer was a Spanish classicist composer influenced by Haydn. His symphonies are often comparable to early-middle period Haydn symphonies.

*Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach* has some high quality and overlooked symphonies. It seems more than half his symphonies were lost due to fire in World War II since his works were not very well circulated and in one location.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Completely different, see what you think of this JC Bach Sonata, some of his keyboard sonatas have such good melodic motifs:





Also, see what you think of the sound of that clavichord and the playing.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

neoshredder said:


> Thought it would be interesting to do some searches for Galante as well. I know Dittersdorf is pretty good at this. Some other names worth checking? Mainly interested in Symphonies and Concertos. Early Mozart, Carl Stamitz, and early Boccherini have this sound imo. Not so much Haydn though. He was more mellow imo. At least that's how I hear it.


I have quite a bit of Dittersdorf on CD but have never found him that inspired, it's pleasant but lacks the weight of much finer composers such as Kraus or Kozeluch.
BTW, I might be wrong, but I would say Galant is more the crossover period from baroque to classical.


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## presto (Jun 17, 2011)

clavichorder said:


> Completely different, see what you think of this JC Bach Sonata, some of his keyboard sonatas have such good melodic motifs:


JC Bach is one of my favourite 18th century composers, his effortless flow of melody constantly amaze me. 
He composed so much yet kept coming up with such beautiful melodic ideas time and time again and never repeating himself, I think he's a unsung genius and needs to be far better known.


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## bejart (Nov 16, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> I'm not too familiar with that period in particular. Is Chevalier de Saint-George galante?


I think you are right, Crudblud. The Galante style did develop as a reaction to the complex counterpoint of the Baroque era, as I mentioned earlier, emphasizing the melodic line above all else. Heavily influenced by Italian opera, it prized a clear and attractive tune. And having reviewed a couple of his recordings on Amazon, I realized that fits Chevalier de St.George's compositions perfectly, no matter when he wrote them. Perhaps that's why he died obscure and penniless in Paris in 1799.

Gossec is another French composer that could be considered Galante, or Rococo, as COAG prefers. This style extended roughly from 1730 to 1770. The 'Sturm und Drang' movement followed, approximately from 1760-1780, and both could be considered sub-classes of the broader Classical period, rather than distinct eras. The latter style is often written in minor keys, featured sharp dynamic changes and are characterized by stormy outer movements.

Mozart passed through both influences in his career as a maturing composer. His 25th symphony in G Minor is a good example of the 'Sturm und Drang', as are middle Haydn and Joseph Martin Kraus. One of my favorite symphonies in this style is Jan Vahal's D Minor:


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

presto said:


> I have quite a bit of Dittersdorf on CD but have never found him that inspired, it's pleasant but lacks the weight of much finer composers such as Kraus or Kozeluch.
> BTW, I might be wrong, but I would say Galant is more the crossover period from baroque to classical.


I pretty much agree. Some of Dittersdorf's work is very well made though, like the works on this disc: http://www.amazon.com/Dittersdorf-Symphonies-Major-And-Flat/dp/B000S5E9BI

The last mvt. of the D major symphony is pretty cool. The major to minor interaction the Symphony in A's minuet is cool. And the counterpoint in the finale of the E flat symphony is neat. The D major is the best all around.

In some ways, I prefer the works on this disc to most of the Michael Haydn symphonies I've heard. But Michael Haydn seems to have a more varied palette of tonal harmony and flexibility in modulation, even though his themes and smooth development somehow aren't as nice as these Dittersdorf works in his symphonies I've heard.

The Ovid symphonies by Dittersdorf that I've heard don't live up to the quality of these nameless works on the Lisbon Metropolitan disc I linked.


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