# Vivaldi vs. Handel



## neoshredder

Who do you think has better Orchestral Music? Here are some of their Famous Orchestral Works
Vivaldi
-Four Seasons
-L'estro Armonico
-La Stravaganza
Handel
-Concerti Grossi Op. 6
-Water Music
-Music for the Royal Fireworks


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## opus55

Close call and I would've gone with Vivaldi if I didn't hear Handel's Concerti Grossi and Keyboard Suites. I used to hate Handel, by the way :lol:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Vivaldi definitely.


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## Art Rock

Vivaldi clearly.


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## Arsakes

Handel has some good concertos, but Vivaldi's main mastery is orchestral works. So Vivaldi wins.


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## neoshredder

I agree. Vivaldi is great with Orchestral Works.


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## Sonata

I haven't listened to either composer very much yet, but with my limited exposure, I'll go with Vivaldi.


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## BeethoFan

Only music of Handel's I've heard so far is the Alla Hornpipe from Water Music Suite 2 and the Sarabande from his Keyboard Suite in D Minor, both of which i like very much, and for Vivaldi i recall hearing 2 out of the 4 seasons, which i also liked very much. 

But i'll make my decision off the works you've posted and get back to you. Looks like i'll be a while processing all of L'estro Armonico, La Stravaganza, and Concerti Grossi though


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## Philip

I've listened to everything from both composers and Handel wins.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Philip said:


> I've listened to everything from both composers and Handel wins.


You are a strange animal.


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## neoshredder

Philip said:


> I've listened to everything from both composers and Handel wins.


That might be your opinion but you would be WRONG! Sorry had to do it. It hasn't been done in a while.


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## Guest

Why just orchestral ?? 
Handel wins every time, Chandos Anthems are fantastic, I could listen to GFH all week but would tyre of Vivaldi after a couple of hours.


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## neoshredder

I chose Orchestral because Orchestral is my favorite format for Classical Music. Especially enjoyable during the Baroque Era with less brass and more harpsichord.  I'm not sure I could limit myself to any one Composer for a whole week. Definitely not Handel.


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## Philip

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> You are a strange animal.


Vivaldi is basically the Mozart of the Baroque era.


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## neoshredder

Philip said:


> Vivaldi is basically the Mozart of the Baroque era.


Oh no you didn't.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Philip said:


> Vivaldi is basically the Mozart of the Baroque era.


Actually, good Mozart sounds like Vivaldi.


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## neoshredder

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Actually, good Mozart sounds like Vivaldi.


Or CPE Bach. But I think that is a better comparison with Corelli being the CPE Bach of the Baroque.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

neoshredder said:


> Or CPE Bach. But I think that is a better comparison with Corelli being the CPE Bach of the Baroque.


I suppose, but some of CPE's works are very transitional late baroque/early classical and I wouldn't say that about Corelli's music.


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## Guest

neoshredder said:


> I'm not sure I could limit myself to any one Composer for a whole week. Definitely not Handel.


OK perhaps I was overly enthusiastic, a whole week of any one composer would drive me up the wall also


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## neoshredder

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I suppose, but some of CPE's works are very transitional late baroque/early classical and I wouldn't say that about Corelli's music.


Well his most famous works were made in the 1770's along with Haydn's Sturm und Drang. So I consider CPE Bach classical but yeah he was Baroque early in his career. But I think there is a big difference between early Classical and late Classical.


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## DarkAngel

For orchestral work I answered Vivaldi with his massive body of works in the concerto area which I quite like.

Handel vast majority of time and work deals with vocal works not orchestral: italian opera, oratorio, cantatas.....Although he has a smaller body of fine orchestral and organ pieces he is very heavily concentrated in vocal area.

Vivaldi also has large body of opera works discovered relatively reccently, over 50 known operas so far available for research at the Vivaldi museum in Turin Italy. Naive and other music labels are busy recording these works


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## StlukesguildOhio

I'll have to agree with Philip is that if you consider the whole of their oeuvre, Handel easily wins on the basis of his marvelous cantatas, operas, oratorios, and other vocal/choral works. Honestly... I think Vivaldi's operas, choral works, and other vocal works are an equally greater part of his music than his concertos.

Vivaldi also has large body of opera works discovered relatively reccently, over 50 known operas so far available for research at the Vivaldi museum in Turin Italy. Naive and other music labels are busy recording these works

And this could certainly change one's assessment of Vivaldi. 30 years ago it would have seemed ridiculous to even think of ranking Handel among the greatest composers of all time. Little beyond the Water & Royal Fireworks Music, the Cocerti Grossi Op. 3, the _Messiah_... and perhaps _Saul_ and _Solomon_ were readily known and available in quality recordings. Along with this discovery of Vivaldi's manuscripts there has been a steady "re-discovery" of ignored works by Baroque composers ranging from Handel, Lully, and Rameau through Biber, Zelenka, and Alessandro Scarlatti. There hasn't been a better time for the Baroque lover than now.


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## hocket

*StLuke'sGuildOhio wrote:*



> 30 years ago it would have seemed ridiculous to even think of ranking Handel among the greatest composers of all time.


I understand what you mean, but unfortunately that's just not true. In Kenneth Clarke's legendary series 'Civilization', made in the 70s, he ranks Handel alongside JS Bach as equals (and opposites) as amongst the all time greats. Anyway, I'm not disputing that the revival of vocal works has bolstered the catalogues and reputations of both Handel and Vivaldi, just noting that your remarks seem to misrepresent the views of past generations.


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## Bas

An impossible dillema for me. Like both very much!
However: I like both, and Vivaldi even more then Handel, for other pieces then you mentioned (Call me crazy, but I for example don't like the four seasons too much: I love Vivaldi for some concerto's, for his Gloria (!) and for a couple of his opera's, expecially La Silvia. I like almost anything from Handel - but the vocal pieces much more then the trio's and suites - , but I don't know if I would call everything I know of him as to be of equal greatness with Vivaldi's works.) Too difficult to choose.


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## Ramako

I would love to like Vivaldi, but I just can't put him in the same league as Handel. Ok, very annoying thing to say, yes I know, but very few of his works, ok just the four seasons (and gloria), make any impression on me. They are practically all enjoyable, but Handel's lesser works are of that standard to me, rather than the great ones like nos 8&12 of the op.6 concerti grossi.


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## Pizzicato

I love both but I think Vivaldi wins in my opinion. *Head bangs to Winter*


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## BeethoFan

I finally finished listening to all the works posted by op.

One thing i noticed from listening to these is that of the two, Handel's music has more "substance" to it. I think in the end, great Handel music ends up being better than great Vivaldi music.


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## neoshredder

BeethoFan said:


> I finally finished listening to all the works posted by op.
> 
> One thing i noticed from listening to these is that of the two, Handel's music has more "substance" to it. I think in the end, great Handel music ends up being better than great Vivaldi music.


I guess not a surprise as Beethoven preferred Handel as well.  But credit for putting the effort into listening to all on the list.


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## bigshot

They had a box set sale at Amazon.de with 40 cd sets for 23 euro. I won't be able to answer this poll until I've had a chance to digest the Vivaldi and Handel boxes I bought. They're in the mail now.


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## clavichorder

L'estro Armonico are great, and the Four Seasons are uniquely melodic, but the Concerto Grossi are greater, and Water Music is arguably more melodic. My vote goes to Handel. Plus I have a keyboard bias. Perhaps a violin bias would sway one more in favor of Vivaldi.


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## poconoron

Handel is one of the all-time greats, generally ranked in the top 10 of all composers in history (just ask Beethoven, who ranked Handel above all others).

While I can enjoy Vivaldi occasionally, Handel's works are far more "substantial" to my ears.


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## nikola

Vivaldi to me. He is so easy to listen, yet so brilliant and melodic.


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## principe

Artificial question, non-exisitng dilemma. They lived and worked under different circumstances. They had different interests and they contributed enough to Music, but with different products. So, they are not even "equals", since they are different. However, they are both great composers. 
Of course, Haendel wrote some very memorable and, in not few cases, monumental works, like the unique Messiah, the innovative Water Music, the structurally great Concerti Grossi (both opp.3 & 6), his Harpsichord Suites, some of the Organ Concerti and a great deal of his Choral Music and at least a couple of his Operas.
Vivaldi, on the other, wrote mostly good music to listen, to study and to play, but very few influential, pivotal or monumental works. However, _The Four Seasons_ are a trademark of Classical Music.

Principe


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## SixFootScowl

I like them both but they are not the same.


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## Bulldog

The poll results appear conclusive. Although orchestral music is Vivaldi's strongest genre, Handel still beats him easily.

Personally, Vivaldi's music just bounces off me - nothing memorable, nothing sticks.


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## elgar's ghost

Inspector Morse walking with a friend of a recently-murdered woman:

*Friend: She liked Vivaldi very much - she said his music cheered her up.

Morse: That's all it's good for if you ask me...*

I wouldn't have put it quite so baldly, but I would definitely choose Handel.


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## Sloe

elgars ghost said:


> Inspector Morse walking with a friend of a recently-murdered woman:
> 
> *Friend: She liked Vivaldi very much - she said his music cheered her up.
> 
> Morse: That's all it's good for if you ask me...*
> 
> I wouldn't have put it quite so baldly, but I would definitely choose Handel.


I like music that cheers me up so I choose Vivaldi.


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## Manxfeeder

I'm in the minority by voting that I like them both the same.


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## ArtMusic

I prefer Handel but I love the music by both great composers.


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## trazom

I don't think there's much of a contest. Handel's music, besides having truly great works in such a wide variety of genres, just seems so much richer. I appreciate Vivaldi's genius in creating drama and such a wide array of great themes, and influencing Bach when he was first starting to write his concertos; but Vivaldi's music always seems paper-thin in comparison. And although his concertos usually start interestingly enough, my mind starts to wander once the concerto's momentum starts to get bogged down in the same harmonic cliches. The same cliches sometimes appear in Handel's concertos but they don't matter as much to me as they're only a small part--and give a sense of direction and movement-- to the larger structure and coherence of the concerto's harmonic form. With Vivaldi, and sometimes Mendelssohn, I just get the impression we're on a musical treadmill.


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## Morimur

Not a fan of either.


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## tdc

Perhaps Handel's craftsmanship and complexity _is_ a notch above Vivaldi's, but Vivaldi's music sounds truly inspired to me, Handel's does not, so I went with the Italian.


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## Dim7

I voted they're the same because I think they were the same person.


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## Steatopygous

Philip said:


> I've listened to everything from both composers and Handel wins.


Me too. 
I've heard the 4 Seasons (an infinity of times), so I have heard all of Vivaldi. 
Mind you I've listened to dozens and dozens of Vivaldi works with different RV numbers, but they are entirely interchangeable. 
Very attractive the first 20 times...
Handel is not so overplayed, found on ringtones or hold music or lift music etc


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## Steatopygous

BTW, I recently ordered the 65-CD Handel set by Brilliant for $20 on amazon. I see today it is up to $81. Still not a bad price. 
http://www.amazon.com/Handel-Editio...d=1440598240&sr=8-1&keywords=handel+brilliant


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## Tero

They are different. I listen to Vivaldi concertos. More rarely the operas. Handel had good concertos but I mainly listen to one disc collections from his vocal-orchestral works. Suites. Pretty much the same as Rameau, but he had no concertos to speak of.


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## SixFootScowl

Dim7 said:


> I voted they're the same because I think they were the same person.


Perhaps they were twins, separated at birth?


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## Tero

No way! Handel did not write the same concerto 500 times. One of them he only wrote three times, harp organ and something else.


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## violadude

Tero said:


> They are different. I listen to Vivaldi concertos. More rarely the operas. Handel had good concertos but I mainly listen to one disc collections from his vocal-orchestral works. Suites. *Pretty much the same as Rameau, but he had no concertos to speak of.*


Wrong, he wrote 5 keyboard concertos.


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## SixFootScowl

While I like them both, I have to lean towards Handel because he wrote a lot of stuff in English, and especially for Messiah. In both cases I mainly listen to their vocal works.


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## T Son of Ander

For years I didn't care much for Handel, but all I knew was Fireworks and Water Music. But once I heard Op. 3, 4 & 6 I was hooked! I would have to say I prefer Handel by quite a bit now. But I do like Vivaldi.


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## Johnnie Burgess

I like the music of Handel but lean a little more to Vivaldi.


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## Arsakes

Where did I vote this Vivaldi?!

I want refund!

Change my vote to Handel!


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## Xaltotun

Hard to answer because I really don't care about either one.


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## Rik1

I would say, Vivaldi for purely instrumental works (particularly the concerti which are full of fire and originality). But, Handel for vocal works.


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## Genoveva

I like both Handel and Vivaldi, but slightly prefer Handel. The difference in favour of Handel used to much higher but the difference has narrowed the greater the number of works by Vivaldi that I have listened to. The often-heard comment that Vivaldi wrote the same concerto n-times (meaning that they all sound very similar) is false. I don't have all of Vivaldi's works, but nearly so, and there is immense variety among many of the concertos. He also wrote some really beautiful religious music, and several very good operas. The reason I still prefer Handel is because of the very wide variety of genres he covered, in all of which he wrote a lot of excellent work, and I especially like his operas and oratorios, some of which are truly outstanding. It's usually found in most internet polls that Handel pulls in more votes than Vivaldi by a fairly large margin, as is the case here.


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## Vesteralen

I tend to lean toward Vivaldi, no doubt because of word association. 

If a mind-doctor were to give me one of those, it would go something like this:

Handel? Glorious
Vivaldi? Fun

Handel? Stodgy
Vivaldi? Quicksilver

Handel? Countertenors
Vivaldi? Girls' school


Need I say more?


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## Vaneyes

They're just two guys in my endlessly looping playlist. Referendum not needed.


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## Abraham Lincoln

I think they are both on par with each other in terms of compositional quality, to my ears at least. Though, if we base the comparison purely on their looks, my vote goes to Vivaldi because I'm not exactly the biggest fan of sumo wrestlers.


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## bz3

Neither have enough bite for consistent listening, though violin is my instrument of choice so it's Vivaldi.


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## Arsakes

Every time I want to vote Handel in this thread I confront that I already voted for Vivaldi.... then I become like:


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## TumultuousHair

Handel was a god in human form, whereas Vivaldi was merely a supremely cool priest.


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## Pugg

TumultuousHair said:


> Handel was a god in human form, whereas Vivaldi was merely a supremely cool priest.


Other people might think different


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## Animal the Drummer

Handel every time for me. The variety, power and melodic distinction of his music leave Vivaldi's far behind, IMHO of course.


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## Chronochromie

I'm not a huge fan of either, (Monteverdi, Bach and Rameau are my Baroque holy trinity) but for orchestral works I prefer Handel for his Concerti Grossi, better than any Vivaldi concerto set that I've heard.


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## tdc

Animal the Drummer said:


> Handel every time for me. The variety, power and melodic distinction of his music leave Vivaldi's far behind, IMHO of course.


I always thought Vivaldi wrote melodies that were more distinct than Handel, in the sense that Vivaldi had a more clear and unique artistic voice. I could probably agree with Handel being more varied in his approach though.


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## KRoad

Handel for me no contest.


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## atsizat

Vivaldi by a mile.

I don't understand how Handel is winning.


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## Rogerx

atsizat said:


> Vivaldi by a mile.
> 
> I don't understand how Handel is winning.



Most votes wins , its at easy as that.


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