# LANG -LANG as emperor of narcissism piano playing ?



## rarevinyllibrary

Lang -Lang as emperor of Narcissist keyboard playing . The yellow label signed him but they also welcomed Pogorelich which had more or less the same flaws in his heydays .


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## Bas

The point of this thread being?


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## rarevinyllibrary

rant and rave about your most hatred piano soloists.


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## joen_cph

Pogorelich was heavily promoted, but - not speaking of his personality - many of his early recordings were remarkably concise and not flashy emotional in their playing style. This applies to the very early Vox Prokofiev 6th and the DG Bach Suites 2+3, for instance; critics also agreed that the DG Tchaikovsky Concerto was quite an antithesis to the bravura style, and as such very refreshing.


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## rarevinyllibrary

where marketing strategies can lead you to first rank in classical sales ie is the audience ready to accept everything ?


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## Ukko

joen_cph said:


> Pogorelich was heavily promoted, but - not speaking of his personality - many of his early recordings were remarkably concise and not flashy emotional in their playing style. This applies to the very early Vox Prokofiev 6th and the DG Bach Suites 2+3, for instance; critics also agreed that the DG Tchaikovsky Concerto was quite an antithesis to the bravura style, and as such very refreshing.


I may have been the only one who "noticed", but early Pogo reminded me of early Perahia; and that was a good thing.

I don't know if Pogo's recording of Scarlatti sonatas is still available. The interpretations are 'adventuresome', but no more so than Pletnev's, and I like Pogo's better.


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## PetrB

Bas said:


> The point of this thread being?


An "I don't like Lang Lang" thread, I guess (along with an upper cut sideswipe @ Pogarelich) -- as if all those criticisms leveled at Lang-Lang, at least, i.e. the mugging, the lack of real musicality in the playing, the superficiality other than a knack of technical velocity... have not already been stated in print, by critics, in the major press and music journals of the world a hundred times over already.

That "the mugger," is popular is not in dispute, nor is it surprising a label would sign up a popular money maker.


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## PetrB

rarevinyllibrary said:


> where marketing strategies can lead you to first rank in classical sales ie is the audience ready to accept everything ?


They're beating down the doors for tickets to hear Lang-Lang, Hamelin and Lisitsa, so to answer your question, for that broadest of general public audiences... yeah.


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## rarevinyllibrary

maybe a rational ,educated argumentation in three parts from you could turn them to more crafted ,refined players ?real musicians ?


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## kv466

I don't have and 'hated piano soloists'. However, I do consider most players out to simply be mere mortals and incapable of interpreting music in what I like to consider 'the correct way'. Also, I can't stand big names that beloved by millions and whose playing is sloppy, uninspiring and without virtuosity.

I won't name any names...*coughhorrorwitzcough*coughcliburncough*...


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## DavidA

Lang Lang is not a real musician? Come off it! The problem is he's too popular. He actually brings in the punters. He's flashy and a showman. But then, so was a certain F Liszt. 
Fanny Waterman's comment when she made him an ambassador for Leeds Piano competition was 'I wouldn't mind having his pair of hands!' Now who are we to believe? Benighted critics who are green with envy? Or one of the world's most respected teachers?

And btw I have no LL CDs in my collection, so don't anyone accuse me of being a 'fan'. But I do know fine piano paying. LL might not be to everyone's taste but to say he's anything but a fine pianist displays ignorance of pianism. 
Also, please note that Argerich walked out off the jury at Pogorelich's exclusion. Are you saying she doesn't recognise a good pianist?


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## Garlic

What happened to that Bach on mushrooms thread you promised us?


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## rarevinyllibrary

i am working on it (synthesis)


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## quack

I was considering this when I was looking back on one of the first classical recordings I bought: Maria Tipo playing Chopin.

It was a budget release I just picked by composer, I didn't know soloists but it seemed to hook me although I have mostly lost interest in Chopin now. I was reading reviews of Tipo recently and they said how she over romanticises and embellishes the works, kind of how Lang Lang over dramatises his performances. But I think that is kind of an essential way to draw people into classical. Trying to hook people with Brendel, who is known to be understated and who doesn't impose his own style so much on the music, might well be hopeless, some seasoned classical listeners even call him boring

So I think people waste too much time criticising Lang Lang, he is keeping classical lively even if he isn't to everyone's taste and while many people will not go beyond a disc or two if his, others will use him as an easy entry point.


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## JCarmel

I like the look/sound of Lang Lang personally but he is the first pianist that I've thought to disapprove-of for their pianistic skills... I think it's part-reaction to the enthusiasm and idol-worship he receives from the legion of (ill-informed) Fans.
I watched his Liszt programme earlier this year...ridiculous, swirling graphics combined with unimpressive playing, is what I thought of it!


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## quack

Mmmm garlic mushrooms......


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## PetrB

rarevinyllibrary said:


> maybe a rational ,educated argumentation in three parts from you could turn them to more crafted ,refined players ?real musicians ?


Your complaint more than mine it seems, Ergo, your job, if you so choose. Or...

You coach those players, and I'll then do the lecture circuit to take the wool out of everyman concertgoer's ears so they are no longer sucked in by the musical vacuums on the circuit.

We'll need a third party to go around and tell those deaf and damned record execs how atrocious it is to sign the likes of "narcissist Lang Lang" -- though it seems that is what you first signed up for by posting this thread (unless you were just using the forum to vent your frustration about the quality, or lack, of musicianship in a handful of wildly popular pianists, that is.)


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## rarevinyllibrary

you are absolutely right .
however education for the masses is beyond my strength and will power but that will suit you perfectly.


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## PetrB

No one said these pianists did not have technique enough to play a lot of notes, in the right order, and at super velocity. Does it come as some sort of odd surprise that is not all there is to musicianship?


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## rarevinyllibrary

as i said i wish i've had WEISSENBERG octaves and left hand


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## rarevinyllibrary

just for one minute :music is elsewhere ...


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## PetrB

rarevinyllibrary said:


> you are absolutely right .
> however education for the masses is beyond my strength and will power but that will suit you perfectly.


Sorry, all through Uni every professor I worked with urged me to become a teacher, mainly because "it was not a bad life" and I'd have summers free to compose. I knew even then that I did not have anywhere near the temperament to teach a class full of students and then take home 20 to 35 harmony 101 exercises and comb through them for, say, parallel fifths, etc.

Besides, how do you teach one of the most technically competent of players "how to have a soul?" Mmmm? If you have the answer to that one, write a book, make a fortune.


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## DavidA

JCarmel said:


> I like the look/sound of Lang Lang personally but he is the first pianist that I've thought to disapprove-of for their pianistic skills... I think it's part-reaction to the enthusiasm and idol-worship he receives from the legion of (ill-informed) Fans.
> I watched his Liszt programme earlier this year...ridiculous, swirling graphics combined with unimpressive playing, is what I thought of it!


I must confess I watched the Liszt program too somewhat sceptically at first. But at the end I realised I had enjoyed it!
From what we know of Liszt the showman, swirling graphics would all have been grist to his mill if they had been available back then.


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## rarevinyllibrary

*perlemutter* did but he was the least interested in Money.....


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## Ukko

PetrB said:


> [...]
> Besides, how do you teach one of the most technically competent of players "how to have a soul?" Mmmm? If you have the answer to that one, write a book, make a fortune.


I'll accept the premise that Hamelin is deficient in 'soul'. He does have the wit and sardonicism, and the mechanism that gives him the freedom to perform Alkan 'right'. I'll settle for that.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> I may have been the only one who "noticed", but early Pogo reminded me of early Perahia; and that was a good thing.
> 
> I don't know if Pogo's recording of Scarlatti sonatas is still available. The interpretations are 'adventuresome', but no more so than Pletnev's, and I like Pogo's better.


I saw this post although you tried to sneak it in.


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## moody

kv466 said:


> I don't have and 'hated piano soloists'. However, I do consider most players out to simply be mere mortals and incapable of interpreting music in what I like to consider 'the correct way'. Also, I can't stand big names that beloved by millions and whose playing is sloppy, uninspiring and without virtuosity.
> 
> I won't name any names...*coughhorrorwitzcough*coughcliburncough*...


Without virtuosity ?
You must have listened to them after they had passed away.


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## rarevinyllibrary

I attended one of his last public performances .more or less the same program as for the last 10 years :the variations OP 73 (FAURE ) barcarole OP 116 (FAURE) sonatine (RAVEL ) Gaspard de la nuit (RAVEL ). encore was the Toccata from " le tombeau de couperin " (RAVEL )


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## Itullian

Dang Dang Lang Lang

..............


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## Ukko

Parachute said:


> Lang Lang is the greatest pianist of the last few generations. There is no doubt. He is virtuosic and elegant, as well as romantic, with a poetic spirit, great emotionality, and color. His repertoire is vast to compliment his gifts, too


There, b'god, another country heard from. I knew you had to be out there somewhere. You go, _'chute_.


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## JCarmel

For swirling graphics...see swooning Females, in Liszt's time...DavidA? It seems that many ladies were quite overcome during the composers pianistic performances! I wouldn't really have had that much objection to the graphics had the pianism matched-up...whereas I think Franz's' probably didn't disappoint in that regard.









(But that's just my opinion about the music-making...)


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## KenOC

People are worried about Lang Lang???

"As the closing strains began I saw Liszt's countenance assume that agony of expression, mingled with radiant smiles of joy, which I never saw in any other human face except in the paintings of our Savior ... he fainted in the arms of a friend who was turning the pages for him, and he bore him out in a strong fit of hysterics."


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## Blancrocher

Just in case there's anyone who hasn't come across this classic yet. I was crying I laughed so hard when I saw it.

And Lang Lang holds his own here, in my opinion.


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## DavidA

This well written piece from the Telegraph might give us a balanced view:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ts-snobbery-to-censure-a-showman-pianist.html


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## DavidA

Blancrocher said:


> Just in case there's anyone who hasn't come across this classic yet. I was crying I laughed so hard when I saw it.
> 
> And Lang Lang holds his own here, in my opinion.


Yes, and when someone like Heifetz shows no emotion they say he is a 'cold' player!


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## JCarmel

There was nothing in the Top Ten Emoting Pianistic moments that even came close to the awful, excruciating expressions that Mitsuko Uchida produced whilst performing Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto at the Proms a week ago. I like to see and 'experience' the subtleties of expression within an artistic performance...but For Once In My Life...I couldn't take-it, Mitsuko-style!


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## DavidA

JCarmel said:


> There was nothing in the Top Ten Emoting Pianistic moments that even came close to the awful, excruciating expressions that Mitsuko Uchida produced whilst performing Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto at the Proms a week ago. I like to see and 'experience' the subtleties of expression within an artistic performance...but For Once In My Life...I couldn't take-it, Mitsuko-style!


One problem we have today is the camera zooming in on the oianist's features. This for me is most annoying - I want to see their hands not their facial expressions. But certain producers seem entranced with Facial expressions. the whole thing then becomes exaggerated in a way that never happens if you are sitting in the audience. Producers need to be told it is not the face that produces the music but the fingers!


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## moody

It seems to be the in thing to rubbish Lang Lang here on TC--it's quite ridiculous.
As Carmel has mentioned Ms.Uchida was quite excrutiating in the recent Promenade Concert. But ,as somebody else has said,too many close-ups are being shown and there is no point to them as you would not get this proximity at a concert.
In fact it can be fairly off-putting.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> It seems to be the in thing to rubbish Lang Lang here on TC--it's quite ridiculous.
> As Carmel has mentioned Ms.Uchida was quite excrutiating in the recent Promenade Concert. But ,as somebody else has said,too many close-ups are being shown and there is no point to them as you would not get this proximity at a concert.
> In fact it can be fairly off-putting.


Yeah, when I see they are doing close-ups, I stop watching now. There is a DVD Of a Michelangelo recital from late in his life, wherein the idiocy of close-ups is clear. ABM's visage, ravaged by time, changed very little during the recital, except for an occasional grimace that could have been caused by indigestion, and some eye blinking that may have indicated a struggle to stay awake.


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## DavidA

KenOC said:


> People are worried about Lang Lang???
> 
> "As the closing strains began I saw Liszt's countenance assume that agony of expression, mingled with radiant smiles of joy, which I never saw in any other human face except in the paintings of our Savior ... he fainted in the arms of a friend who was turning the pages for him, and he bore him out in a strong fit of hysterics."


Hmmmm

Makes the likes of LL, GG and Uchihida appear rather restrained!


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