# Favorite French Operas?



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

French opera often seems to be everybody's unwanted stepchild here... well, perhaps not as bad as Russian, English, and American Opera (American what!? ). Thus, let's put the question to you:

*What are your favorite 5 French operas/operettas?* (Operas/operettas written originally in French. Sorry no _Lucie de Lammermoor_... although I quite like Natalie Dessay's version of the same.)

OK... 10 for those of you unable to stick with 5 

I thought of making it a poll... but felt there are simply just too many choices to limit the possibilities such... especially considering all the Baroque operas... and Modernist/Contemporary works for those of you that swing that way.


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I have six favourites:

Saint-Saens - Samson et Delilah
Debussy - Pelleas et Melisande
Bizet - Carmen
Rameau - Les Indes Galantes
Delibes - Lakmé
Berlioz - Les Troyens


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Dialogues des Carmelites
Romeo et Juliette
Manon
Carmen
Faust
La Juive


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

L'Heure Espagnole
L'Enfant et les sortilèges
Carmen
Les pêcheurs de perles
Pelleas et Melisande


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Wow, so many wonderful operas, and so much wonderful singing, on ancient recordings anyway. French opera wasn't too well served by record companies in the LP era, though some excellent complete recordings were made, as well as tantalizing highlights. Not nearly enough, though- I would love to hear all of Le Cid or La Muette de Portici, but no decent complete recordings seem to exist. Here are my favourites among those I have heard:

Gounod: Faust
Meyerbeer: Les Huguenots
Reyer: Sigurd
Rossini: Guillaume Tell
Halevy: La Juive
Gounod: Romeo et Juliette
Donizetti: La Favorite
Meyerbeer: L’Africaine
Saint Saens: Samson et Dalila
Berlioz: Les Troyens


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

1) _Pelléas et Mélisande_ : enough said 
2) _Les Troyens_: Wagner, the French can go toe-to-toe with you, see?
3) _Werther_: I purposely leave Manon out to let this one in. 
4) _Dialogues des Carmélites_: probably the most psychologically accurate opera ever 
5) _Carmen_
6) _Benvenuto Cellini_: the French Falstaff
7) _Médée_ (Cherubini): I believe that it should better be done in French with dialogues. 
8) _Samson et Dalila_: strictly speaking not an opera, but gorgeous anyways
9) _Médée _(Charpentier): probably the most moving and profound baroque opera, equal to Handel's very best
10) _Hippolyte et Aricie_: I leave all of Lully out to let this personal favorite in 

I regret that just 10 doesn't allow me to include any of Gluck, Gounod, Offenbach or Lully.

Honorable mention of other opera can be done extremely well in French: _Guillaume Tell_ (Rossini), _Les vêpres siciliennes_, _Don Carlos_, and _Salomé_ (Strauss)!


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

_Les Contes d'Hoffmann_ is one of my all-time favorite operas in any language. My second favorite French opera is Gounod's _Romeo and Juliette_. I like _Faust_ but can understand how some might find it slow-moving and a bit tedious. I really only love _Carmen_ in its Opera-comique, spoken-dialogue version. I don't know any other French operas well enough to make judgments about them.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

My list (10 ) in no particular order:

1. Rameau- Les Indes galantes
2. Gluck- Orphée et Eurydice
3. Berlioz- Les Troyens
4. Bizet- Carmen
5. Gounod- Faust 
6. Massenet- Manon 
7. Massenet- Thaïs
8. Offenbach- Orphée aux enfers 
9. Offenbach- Les contes d'Hoffmann
10. Debussy- Pelléas et Mélisande

I seriously need to delve deeper into this oeuvre as coming up with this list was far too difficult... and not due to the sheer number of French operas that I know intimately. I admittedly cheated a bit on my own rules with Gluck's _Orphée et Eurydice_... yet Gluck is a difficult figure to place: a German composer writing mostly Italian and French operas. The French version of the Italian original (_Orfeo ed Euridice_) not only translated the opera into French, but also expanded some sections, rewrote others, replaced the castrato role (which the French rarely ever employed) with a tenor and added two ballet sequences including the "Dance of the Furies" and the famous "Dance of the Blessed Spirits":






I definitely need to explore French opera of the 19th century more: Massenet, Léo Delibes, Ambroise Thomas, Camille Saint-Saëns, Chausson, Chabrier, etc...


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Silentio - what is Samson et Dalila if not an opera? I'd never thought of it as anything else...

I'm not a lister/ranker but I'd just like to throw Penelope (Faure), Ariane et Barbe Bleu (Dukas), the opera/ballet Padmavati (Roussel) and of course the enormous epic St Francois d'Assissi (Messiaen) into the mix


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2015)

Debussy: Pelléas Et Mélisande
Poulenc: Dialogues Des Carmélites
Rameau: Les Indes Galantes
Messiaen: Saint François D'Assise
Berlioz: Les Troyens

Ravel, Dusapin, blah blah blah...whatever, these 5 are the standards.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

A ordinal ranking would certainly be impossible for me, but some of my perennial favorites are:

Berlioz, _Les Troyens_
Berlioz, _Benvenutto Cellini_
Massenet, _Manon_
Massenet, _Thaïs_
Massenet, _Cendrillon_
Debussy, _Pelléas et Mélisande_
Offenbach, _ Les Contes d'Hoffmann_
Gounod, _Roméo et Juliette_
Gounod, _Faust_
Bizet, _Carmen_


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Marschallin Blair said:


> A ordinal ranking would certainly be impossible for me, but some of my perennial favorites are:
> 
> Berlioz, _Les Troyens_
> Berlioz, _Benvenutto Cellini_
> ...


I agree with 5 of those


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Becca said:


> I agree with 5 of those


...and would also be tempted to add Berlioz' _La Damnation de Faust_ which is more of an opera than anything else!

Which, incidentally, will be done this Saturday at 10am PDT/1pm EDT by the Berlin Philharmonic live via the Digital Concert Hall with Simon Rattle, Joyce DiDonato, Ludovic Tezier & Charles Castronovo.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Becca said:


> I agree with 5 of those


Which five would you instate as replacements?

(Don't worry, I'm not sharpening my claws.)


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Which five would you instate as replacements?
> 
> (Don't worry, I'm not sharpening my claws.)


....because they are already sharp enough :lol:

I wouldn't attempt to add 5, not sure that there are 5 others worth adding, just that I happen to like...
_Carmen
Manon
Hoffman
Troyens
Cellini_


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Becca said:


> ....because they are already sharp enough :lol:
> 
> I wouldn't attempt to add 5, not sure that there are 5 others worth adding, just that I happen to like...
> _Carmen
> ...


<Heidi Klum's voice>: "You're. . . . . . . . . . . 'safe.'"

_;D_


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> _Les Contes d'Hoffmann_ is one of my all-time favorite operas in any language. My second favorite French opera is Gounod's _Romeo and Juliette_. I like _Faust_ but can understand how some might find it slow-moving and a bit tedious. I really only love _Carmen_ in its Opera-comique, spoken-dialogue version. I don't know any other French operas well enough to make judgments about them.


_Excellent_ taste and choice :tiphat:


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Berlioz - les Troyens
Berlioz - La Damnation de Faust
Berlioz - Benvenuto Cellini
Berlioz - Beatrice et Benedict
Berlioz - Romeo et Juliet
Berlioz - L'enfance du Christ (Yeh, I know it isn't technically an opera)
Debussy - Peleas et Melissande
Gounod - Faust
Thomas - Hamlet
(and I'd be tempted to sneak in some of Gluck's french-language work too)


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

French opera isn't exactly over-represented in my collection so no surprises here:

(in no particular order)

La Damnation de Faust (if allowed as an 'opera of the mind's eye')
Samson et Dalila
Orphee aux enfers
Carmen
L'enfant et les sortileges


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

*Jules Massenet:* Esclarmonde (a thrilling, sensational work).
*Jules Massenet:* Heriodiade (my first love in Massenet's oeuvre).
*Jacques Offenbach:* Geneviève de Brabant (winning music all-round).
*George Enescu:* Œdipe (Oedipus), a masterpiece in its suspense, subtlety, humanity, relevance, and everything else in the true meaning of art. 
*Fromental Halevy*: La Juive (The Jewess), which in some ways was ahead of its time.

And I got to throw these two in here:

*Édouard Lalo:* L'Roi d'Ys (melodramatic even to a fault, but the stirring music is memorable and the story line is not so bad (I've seen worse than this).
*Hector Berlioz:* La Damnation de Faust (one of my all time favorites for a long, long, time. And I'm not even that old ).


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

nathanb said:


> Poulenc: Dialogues Des Carmélites
> Berlioz: Les Troyens


Those are my favorites, along with Carmen.


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Massenet - Le Roi de Lahore
Massenet - Esclarmonde
Meyerbeer - Les Huguenots
Meyerbeer - L'Africaine
Offenbach - Les Contes d'Hoffmann

Very easy!


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

Carmen
Hippolyte et Aricie
Médée
Pelléas et Mélisande 
Les Troyens


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

1.Berlioz: *Les Troyens*
2.Berlioz: *Benvenuto Cellini*
3.Debussy: *Pelleas et Melisande*
4.Massenet: *Werther*
5=Massenet: *Manon*
5=Gounod: *Faust*
5=Bizet: *Carmen*
5=Offenbach: *Les Contes d'Hoffmann*
5=Ravel: *L'Enfant et les Sortileges*
5=Berlioz: *Beatrice et Benedict*

Berlioz's *La Damnation de Faust* should by rights be no 3, but, being a _Legende dramatique_ not originally intended for stage performance, it didn't count.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I love French opera, as much as Italian or German, the three "classical" schools.

A list of ten personal favorites, in chronological order:

Hippolyte et Aricie 
Titon et l'Aurore
La Juive
Carmen
Samson et Dalila
Thaïs
Pelléas et Mélisande
Dialogues des Carmélites
Saint François d'Assise
L'amour de loin


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Carmen
Pelléas et Mélisande


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Faust, Hoffman, Lakme
the rest 

If you count Tell, then that's my favorite.
A supreme masterpiece.


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## BermondseySE1 (Mar 30, 2015)

I love French music but hadn't realised until prompted to think by this thread how few operas:

1. Pelleas et Melisande
2. Benvenuto Cellini (glad to see others picking this!)
3. L'enfant et les sortileges
4. Carmen


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2015)

schigolch said:


> I love French opera, as much as Italian or German, the three "classical" schools.
> 
> A list of ten personal favorites, in chronological order:
> 
> ...


Ah yes, if we're just counting operas in the french language, then L'Amour De Loin has to be in the top 10


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

If anyone's interested in French opera on vinyl + CD, here's a thread I did years ago when I was a new member of TC:

http://www.talkclassical.com/20127-vintage-french-opera-albums.html?highlight=Marcel+Landowski


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Headphone Hermit said:


> Berlioz - les Troyens
> Berlioz - La Damnation de Faust
> Berlioz - Benvenuto Cellini
> Berlioz - Beatrice et Benedict
> ...


Neither Roméo et Juliette is technically an opera. But I would call it the definite musical adaptation of the play. The ones by Bellini and Gounod are great, but not as dramatic and poetic as Berlioz's. As much as I adore Bellini's cantilena and Gounod's saccharine score, I would still happily give them away to keep the Juliet's song, _Roméo seul _, _Bruits lointains de concert et de bal _, and the haunting _Scène d'amour_ of Berlioz.


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

silentio said:


> Neither Roméo et Juliette is technically an opera. But I would call it the definite musical adaptation of the play. The ones by Bellini and Gounod are great, but not as dramatic and poetic as Berlioz's. As much as I adore Bellini's cantilena and* Gounod's saccharine score,* I would still happily give them away to keep the Juliet's song, _Roméo seul _, _Bruits lointains de concert et de bal _, and the haunting _Scène d'amour_ of Berlioz.


Have you heard the 1912 recording? It really isn't saccharine at all. OK, so 'Je veux vivre' and the insanely annoying Queen Mab song are both pretty saccharine and hold up the action to the point that its tempting to hit the fast forward button, but there are moments of drama more moving than practically anything else I've ever heard. I can imagine that with lesser singers, they might make little impact, but listen to these extracts:

Ah, jour de deuil:





Salut, tombeau:





I would happily give up everything ever composed by Berlioz to keep just that record of Agustarello Affre singing 'Ah, jour de deuil'- though I can't listen to it too much because it's too moving. 

BTW the Malibran CD is only highlights. VAI has issued the whole recording on 3 CDs with some bonus material. It's certainly worth seeking out.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Figleaf said:


> Have you heard the 1912 recording? It really isn't saccharine at all. OK, so 'Je veux vivre' and the insanely annoying Queen Mab song are both pretty saccharine and hold up the action to the point that its tempting to hit the fast forward button, but there are moments of drama more moving than practically anything else I've ever heard. I can imagine that with lesser singers, they might make little impact, but listen to these extracts:
> 
> *Ah, jour de deuil:
> 
> ...


Impressive _'Ah, jour de deuil'_! I must say that I enjoy it even more than my current favorite by the young Björling (at the Met) or the young Alagna (at Covent Garden). That aria is certainly the true dramatic bit of the work. I just wish Gounod had condensed the opera and made it more dramatically effective.

Whole recording on 3 CDs? Seriously? Very interesting!


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

That 'Ah, jour de deuil' is an amazing performance, dramatically powerful and intense without any sacrifice of elegance- the only way it could have been bettered is if it could have been recorded a couple of years earlier, when the rather strained high note that begins at 3.12 would have sounded much healthier. Nevertheless I think Affre was in slightly better voice as Romeo than he was as Don José the year before. I way prefer a heroic Romeo to a weedy lyric one like Edmond Clement: I think the only individual recordings of Romeo's arias which come anywhere close to Affre's on the 1912 set are those by Paul Franz and Emile Scaramberg (and maybe Vilhelm Herold, though he sings in a weird language) as well as Affre himself in his younger days.

Here he is in 1907:






(I think the picture that appears at the end of that video of Affre with Jane Lindsay is from Gluck's Armide; he made a lovely recording of 'Plus j'observe ces lieux' from that opera.)






The 1912 set is complete, on about two and a half CDs- the rest is electrically recorded bonus tracks by Endreze, Villabella, Norena, Vezzani , Thill and Feraldy, which are probably on Youtube already, though I haven't checked.

It seems to be available now on amazon.co.uk:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Romeo-Et-Juliette-Gall-Affre/dp/B000003LJX










I wonder what Roberto Alagna makes of his predecessors- apparently he's knowledgeable about early recordings!

Edited to add: I agree that it should have been made more dramatically effective. More exciting heroic tenor stuff and less of Juliet's wussy coloratura waltz song etc. That kind of superficial prettiness gets French opera a bad name.


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

dholling said:


> *Jules Massenet:* Esclarmonde (a thrilling, sensational work).
> *Jules Massenet:* Heriodiade (my first love in Massenet's oeuvre).
> *Jacques Offenbach:* Geneviève de Brabant (winning music all-round).
> *George Enescu:* Œdipe (Oedipus), a masterpiece in its suspense, subtlety, humanity, relevance, and everything else in the true meaning of art.
> ...


And I forgot to mention:

*Albéric Magnard:* Guercoeur, whose music is very well wrought dramatically for both voices and orchestra, profoundly lyrical, and richly scored that often reveals its roots in d'Indy (Magnard's teacher) and in Wagner.
*Paul Dukas:* Ariane et Barbe-Bleue, which to my mind Dukas' most effervescent, vivid, emotionally penetrating score.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2015)

Funny that Berlioz, Gounod, and Dusapin, all frenchies, all did the combo of Romeo Et Juliette and Faust in some form...


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

Azol said:


> Massenet - Le Roi de Lahore
> Massenet - Esclarmonde
> Meyerbeer - Les Huguenots
> Meyerbeer - L'Africaine
> ...


Great choices! (Except that I can't comment on Esclarmonde as I haven't knowingly heard any of it. I suspect it to be rather full of the coloratura soprano stuff I'm not fond of- though I wish Sybil Sanderson had lived to make records, because she sounds like an interesting lady.)

Which recording of L'Africaine do you have? I have this one in German, which is OK, a bit stodgy:










What I really want is a vintage French recording that really captures the excitement of the music, though I'm not aware of the existence of such a recording. I know that Tony Poncet recorded highlights from the opera on just one LP- if only it had been the whole thing! In any case I haven't even heard the highlights disc- but his marvellous record of 'Conduisez-moi vers ce navire' (which I gather is originally from a recital disc and not from the highlights one) should be required listening for anyone who doubts the excitement and visceral impact of Meyerbeer's music. It's also good for waking up sleepy teenagers in the morning. :lol:






There's also a fantastic recording by Agustarello Affre, though unfortunately it's abridged and it's not going to win any prizes for sound quality or orchestral accompaniment:






Seriously, why are people so dismissive of this music? Who could not be thrilled by it? As we speak, people are voting on the best CD recordings of Wozzeck for goodness' sake, an opera I gave up on after 46 minutes: I do wonder if anonymous voting for the TC Top 100 Operas, with no pressure to look intellectual in front of other posters, might have improved Meyerbeer's ranking and damaged Berg's. I suppose we will never know...


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

I like 18th. century French *Opéras comiques*. Gluck, Monsigny, Philidor and of course Grétry. *Richard Cœur-de-lion* stands by far the most beautiful Opéra comique I've ever heard, though rarely been staged or recorded which is such a big shame for opera companies.

Also

*Gluck French operas*

Alceste, Iphigénie en Aulide, Armide, Iphigénie en Tauride

*Grand opera*

La muette de Portici

*Romantic school *

La damnation de Faust (if counted as an opera)

*Late 19th. century *

Lakmé, Thaïs, Le roi d'Ys, Les contes d'Hoffmann

*Opérette *

Orphée aux enfers, La belle Hélène, La vie parisienne, Les p'tites Michu

*Modern *

Pelléas et Mélisande, Padmâvatî, Ariane et Barbe-bleue


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## Il_Penseroso (Nov 20, 2010)

Prodromides said:


> If anyone's interested in French opera on vinyl + CD, here's a thread I did years ago when I was a new member of TC:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/20127-vintage-french-opera-albums.html?highlight=Marcel+Landowski


Checking it out... very nice thread! :tiphat: very nice avatar as well!


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Il_Penseroso said:


> Checking it out... very nice thread! :tiphat: very nice avatar as well!


Thanks. Now you know what album my image comes from.


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## Cavaradossi (Aug 2, 2012)

For the most part I've only been exposed to the usual _chevaux de guerre_ of Bizet, Gounod, Massenet and Saint Saens, so I'm hesitant to make a list when names like Meyerbeer, Halevy, Auber, and Rameau remain unexplored territory for me.

I will profess some love for poor, unloved Lully. I was able to catch one act of his _Atys_ during a stopover in Paris. Not sure if it was Lully's music or simply the effect of the sumptuous production under William Christie and surroundings of the Salle Favart, but it was one of the more exquisite hours in my opera-going career.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> French opera often seems to be everybody's unwanted stepchild here... well, perhaps not as bad as Russian, English, and American Opera (American what!? ). Thus, let's put the question to you:
> 
> *What are your favorite 5 French operas/operettas?* (Operas/operettas written originally in French. Sorry no _Lucie de Lammermoor_... although I quite like Natalie Dessay's version of the same.)
> 
> ...


I have had bad experience after bad experience trying French opera. Little appeals to me. In fact, the only French opera I really like is written by an Italian: La fille du Regiment. Well there also is Cherubini's Lodoïska. I think that is a French opera, but not typical of French opera.

English opera is another category that I have trouble with, other than Italian or German opera sung in English--that I like. And I like Handel, but he did not write operas in English.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I have had bad experience after bad experience trying French opera. Little appeals to me. In fact, the only French opera I really like is written by an Italian: La fille du Regiment. Well there also is Cherubini's Lodoïska. I think that is a French opera, but not typical of French opera.
> 
> English opera is another category that I have trouble with, other than Italian or German opera sung in English--that I like. And I like Handel, but he did not write operas in English.


My experience is the reverse. Quite a few French and English operas appear in my list of favourites, far more than German actually, and *Les Troyens*, *Benvenuto Cellini*, *Pelléas et Mélisande*, *Carmen*, and *Werther* would all probably make my top 10; if I really had to make a list, that is.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

GregMitchell said:


> My experience is the reverse. Quite a few French and English operas appear in my list of favourites, far more than German actually, and *Les Troyens*, *Benvenuto Cellini*, *Pelléas et Mélisande*, *Carmen*, and *Werther* would all probably make my top 10; if I really had to make a list, that is.


I have Benvenuto Cellini, Frau Diavolo, Guercoeur, La Perichole, Romeo et Juliette (Gounod), Samson et Dalila, Henry VIII, Tales of Hoffman. Are those all French? Anyway, of those I like mainly the Saint Saens operas. It may be something I will get into more farther down the road (if I live that long  ). However, I think I have found one that I like. This has a general musical/vocal character that reminds me of Strauss' Die Frau ohne Schatten:


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

I'll check in here again after 3 years.

Faust
Hoffman
William Tell

Only one of which is written by a Frenchman.
Take those away-Faust


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Meyerbeer: Le Prophete- Les Huguenots-Robert Le Diable.
Massenet : Werther-Don Quichotte- Thais .


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Romeo et Juliette by Charles Gounod is my favourite French opera.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Sloe said:


> Romeo et Juliette by Charles Gounod is my favourite French opera.


How could I forget that one ...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Sloe said:


> Romeo et Juliette by Charles Gounod is my favourite French opera.


I am working on it. Have a couple DVDs. Maybe after that I will like it on CD.

But I was just thinking today after hearing some arias from Carmen that Carmen may be the only French opera I know of with really beautiful music, but I don't care for the story:


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## Granate (Jun 25, 2016)

I have been diving into the world of French Opera for some weeks, with three opera challenges completed and a _Carmen_ complete challenge upcoming. Today I found about a 20th century opera by Albéric Magnard called _Guercœur_, finished in 1901 and premiered in 1931. Fritz Kobus and Nick Fuller seem to be the only ones in TC that own the Plasson's lone recording of the Opera.










I haven't found a single DVD or live performance, but there isn't any published libretto in English that I have found. Where else than the PDF file from the Plasson CD? And what do you think of the composition? I've read some synopsis and I really like the Fantasy approach.

Although I wouldn't mind to spend 3 hours reading a libretto while listening to the opera in the only way possible, I remember that there are many French Romantic operas on hold. Also, Magnard was a pupil of Massenet, so he should go first...

_La Damnation de Faust_ *Completed*
_Les Troyens_ *Completed*
_Faust_ *Completed*

_Pelléas et Mélisande
Mireille
Roméo et Juliette
Les Contes d'Hoffmann
Carmen
Hériodade
Manon
Esclarmonde
Thaïs
Werther
Don Quichotte
La Navarraise
Guercœur_

So... any idea?


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Favourite french operas, I own recordings for all mentioned:

*Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687)*

- Atys. 1676.
- Phaeton. 1683.
- Thésée. 1675.
- Isis. 1677.
- Armide. 1686.
- Amadis. 1684.
- Bellerophon. 1679.
- Roland. 1685.
- Psyché. 1678.
- Proserpine. 1680.

*Jean-Philippe Rameau (1683-1764)*

- Hippolyte et Aricie. 1733.
- Castor et Pollux. 1737.
- Zoroastre. 1749.
- Les Boréades. 1763.
- Les Indes galantes. 1735.
- Les fêtes d'Hébé. 1739.
- Platée. 1745.

*Marc-Antoine Charpentier (1643-1704)*

- Médée. 1693.

*Marin Marais (1656-1728)*

- Alcyone. 1706.
- Sémélé. 1709.

*Jean-Marie Leclair (1697-1764)*

- Scylla y Glaucus. 1746.

*Jean-Joseph Cassanéa de Mondonville (1711-1772)*

- Les fêtes de Paphos. 1758.

*André Cardinal Destouches (1672-1749)*

- Callirhoé. 1712.

*Joseph Bodin de Boismortier (1689-1755)*

- Daphnis et Chloé. 1747.


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## Nonchalant (Jan 13, 2018)

^ solid list! ^

I’d add Le Triomphe d’Iris by Louis-Nicolas Clérambault.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

For some reason, I haven't replied to this:

What _needs_ to go on?

Meyerbeer: _Les Huguenots_
Meyerbeer: _Le prophète_
Berlioz: _Benvenuto Cellini_
Offenbach: _Les Contes d'Hoffmann _(for opera opera); plus _Les brigands_, _La grande-duchesse de Gérolstein_, _La Périchole_, _Ba-ta-clan_, _M. Choufleuri..._ (with its trio in pidgin Italian)...
Halévy: _La juive_ (and _La reine de Chypre _is pretty damn good, too! I'd like _Charles VI_ more if the production / recording were better)
Gounod: _Faust_

The complete works of Massenet, just about! (Well, let's say _Cendrillon, Grisélidis, Ariane, Roma, Don Quichotte, La navarraise, Thérèse, Thaïs, Chérubin_)

Other great operas swirling around:

Rameau: _Hippolyte et Aricie_
Gluck: _Iphigénie en Tauride_
Salieri: _Danaïdes_ 
Sacchini: _Œdipe à Colone_
Grétry: _Richard Cœur-de-lion_
Boieldieu: _La dame blanche_
Herold: _Le pré aux clercs_
A handful of Aubers: _Fra Diavolo_, _Le cheval de bronze_, _Gustave III_
Berlioz: _Les troyens_, _La damnation de Faust_, _Béatrice et Bénédict_
Thomas: _Omelette_
Bizet: _Carmen_
Saint-Saëns: _Henry VIII_
Reyer: _Sigurd_
Delibes: _Lakmé_
Chausson: _Le roi Arthus_
Chabrier: _Le roi malgré lui_
Lalo: _Le roi d'Ys_
Debussy: _Pelléas et Mélisande_
Dupont: _Antar_
Poulenc: _Dialogues des Carmélites _

And I liked Milhaud's _Bolivar_.

By Italians:
Donizetti: _La favorite_
Rossini: _Guillaume Tell_
Verdi: _Don Carlos_

Ones that'd make the list if they'd been recorded!
Halévy: _L'éclair_, _Guido et Ginevra_, _Les mousquetaires de la reine_, _Le val d'Andorre_, _La Fée aux Roses_, _La tempesta_, _Le juif errant_, _Jaguarita l'Indienne_
Paladilhe: _Patrie!_ (the two arias and the duet I've heard are all magnificent)
Salvayre: _La dame de Monsoreau_

To name but a few!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Bizet Carmen and Pearl fishers

Gounod Faust and Romeo and ~Juliette

Debyssy Pelleas


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## les24preludes (May 1, 2018)

Ravel - L'Enfant et les Sortilèges......... and then the rest.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I've had trouble getting into French Opera, but this one is really starting to grab me. Creepy in the end the guillotine slicing noises! Anyone can recommend a good production of this on DVD, tastefully done of course, and preferably traditional for a first time watch. Rather avoid a lot of bloody scenes too.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

Mine: 

Poulenc: Dialogues des Carmelites 
Debussy: Pelléas and Mélisande 
Massenet: Thäis, Esclarmonde 
Bizet: Carmen 
Berlioz: Les Troyens 
Gluck: Alceste (Paris recomposition)


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> 1.Berlioz: *Les Troyens*
> 2.Berlioz: *Benvenuto Cellini*
> 3.Debussy: *Pelleas et Melisande*
> 4.Massenet: *Werther*
> ...


For once I still agree with myself from five years ago.

Should Verdi's *Don Carlos* be in there? Is it a French opera, or an Italian opera written to a French libretto? I'm never quite sure. If it's French, then it goes in just after *Les Troyens*, and *Werther* becomes one of the 5=.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

This is my favourite DVD of the Dialogues (I'm reading the play at the moment and so far it follows the opera to a T - or that should be the other way around).









N.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)




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## Dick Johnson (Apr 14, 2020)

My 5 favorite operas by French composers (i.e. excluding operas written by Italians in the French language)
1.	*Gounod - Faust*. Memorable arias and duets set within the battle between good and evil.
2.	*Bizet - Carmen*. Popular for good reason. Great tunes. The sexiest opera? 
3.	*Massenet - Cendrillon*. Nice recent productions at the Met as well as Glyndbourne have pushed this up this list. Dreamy and atmospheric. Could have put _Manon_ in this spot depending on the day.
4.	*Halevy - La Reine de Chypre*. The newest addition to my library - recent winner of the Gramophone Opera Recording of the Year - thanks for the tip Dr. Shatterhand! This is probably a controversial opinion, but this one has better music than his more well-known _La Juive_.
5.	*Poulenc - Dialogues des Carmelites*. Loved the recent Met production with Isabel Leonard. Great theater. I enjoy watching this one much more than just listening to it.

Favorite operas written in French by Italians: Guillaume Tell and Le Siege de Corinthe by Rossini, Don Carlos and Les Vepres Siciliennes by Verdi, La Favorite by Donizetti


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Tsaraslondon said:


> For once I still agree with myself from five years ago.
> 
> Should Verdi's *Don Carlos* be in there? Is it a French opera, or an Italian opera written to a French libretto? I'm never quite sure. If it's French, then it goes in just after *Les Troyens*, and *Werther* becomes one of the 5=.


Well I love Donizetti's La fille du Regiment, but never considered it a French opera in the strict sense.


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## VitellioScarpia (Aug 27, 2017)

SixFootScowl said:


> Well I love Donizetti's La fille du Regiment, but never considered it a French opera in the strict sense.


I agree with SixFootScowl. Don Carlos is an Italian opera which was composed for a French first performance. I actually prefer the Italian five-act version that Verdi worked out after the Paris performance.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Conte said:


> This is my favourite DVD of the Dialogues (I'm reading the play at the moment and so far it follows the opera to a T - or that should be the other way around).
> 
> View attachment 136299
> 
> ...


Well, that one was pricing out around $30 so I ended up buying a different one for $16:


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

SixFootScowl said:


> Well, that one was pricing out around $30 so I ended up buying a different one for $16:


That's a great production, but IMO Muti isn't the right conductor for this reflective French work.

N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

We have recently had discussions about whether operas written to French libretti for Paris by Italian composers are French or not. These have to be taken on a case by case basis. Rossini's Comte d'Ory is very much an Italian opera buffa which happens to have a French libretto (this becomes apparent when one hears the original source for much of the music, the Italian Il Viaggio a Reims). Fille du Regiment is a typical French opera comique, a peculiarly French genre and so great was Donizetti's assimilation of the style that when it was recrafted as an Italian opera buffa it didn't quite work.

The precursor to French Grand Opera was written by an Italian (Guillaume Tell) and the first opera of that genre (and some of the finest examples of it) was composed by a German (Meyerbeer with his Robert le Diable). This should cause us to be very careful with our definitions of what constitutes a French opera and what doesn't. When it comes to Verdi's Vepres Sicilienne there are sections that are unmistakably Italian, but as Antonio Pappano has noted, Verdi was also influenced by rhythmic patterns that were alien to the Italian style, but very much part of the French. It's an italo-french work and I prefer it in the Italian translation despite it being messy in places. By the time of Don Carlos Verdi had developed and the work in its original version is very gallic in nature and reminiscent of Meyerbeer's finer moments. It's true that the five act revision has less of Meyerbeer about it in the parts that were rewritten, but Verdi recomposed those to a French text that was then translated into Italian and so all versions of Don Carlo use a translation rather than the text that Verdi set. Irrespective of whether the opera should be called French or Italian, the French text of all versions is the one that Verdi set and matches the music the best, whilst making the most sense.

N.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

The Conte said:


> We have recently had discussions about whether operas written to French libretti for Paris by Italian composers are French or not. These have to be taken on a case by case basis. Rossini's Comte d'Ory is very much an Italian opera buffa which happens to have a French libretto (this becomes apparent when one hears the original source for much of the music, the Italian Il Viaggio a Reims). Fille du Regiment is a typical French opera comique, a peculiarly French genre and so great was Donizetti's assimilation of the style that when it was recrafted as an Italian opera buffa it didn't quite work.
> 
> The precursor to French Grand Opera was written by an Italian (Guillaume Tell) and the first opera of that genre (and some of the finest examples of it) was composed by a German (Meyerbeer with his Robert le Diable). This should cause us to be very careful with our definitions of what constitutes a French opera and what doesn't. When it comes to Verdi's Vepres Sicilienne there are sections that are unmistakably Italian, but as Antonio Pappano has noted, Verdi was also influenced by rhythmic patterns that were alien to the Italian style, but very much part of the French. It's an italo-french work and I prefer it in the Italian translation despite it being messy in places. By the time of Don Carlos Verdi had developed and the work in its original version is very gallic in nature and reminiscent of Meyerbeer's finer moments. It's true that the five act revision has less of Meyerbeer about it in the parts that were rewritten, but Verdi recomposed those to a French text that was then translated into Italian and so all versions of Don Carlo use a translation rather than the text that Verdi set. Irrespective of whether the opera should be called French or Italian, the French text of all versions is the one that Verdi set and matches the music the best, whilst making the most sense.
> 
> N.


Funnily enough _La Fille du Régiment_ jut sounds wrong to me in Italian, but that could be because it's how I first heard it. On the other hand, though I've come to like the French version of _Don Carlo(s)_ I only ever heard it for the longest time in Italian, which is how I got used to it. I still tend to think of it as an Italian opera, whichever language it's sung in, whereas I always consider _La Fille du Régiment_ as a French work.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

In no particular order here are my ten favourites:

Medee
Fille du regiment
Guilluame Tell
Don Carlos
Faust
Les Huguenots
Les Troyens
Romeo et Juliette
Dialogues des Carmelites
L'Etoile


N.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Funnily enough _La Fille du Régiment_ jut sounds wrong to me in Italian, but that could be because it's how I first heard it. On the other hand, though I've come to like the French version of _Don Carlo(s)_ I only ever heard it for the longest time in Italian, which is how I got used to it. I still tend to think of it as an Italian opera, whichever language it's sung in, whereas I always consider _La Fille du Régiment_ as a French work.


I don't know La figlia del regimento very well at all, but it sounds very odd to my ear. I heard Don Carlo in the Italian version first of all and slowly grew to like it, but I soon came across Pappano's recording and then the Abbado before I had listened to it enough to get too used to the Italian. Having spent quite a bit of time looking at the two versions I realised the French was superior in many respects and having seen the original version with all the music except the ballet, it's a superb underrated French grand opera (further improved by most of the revisions Verdi made later on). I feel far more comfortable with Italian than I do French, but it seems obvious to me that the authentic language of the opera is French, whilst the Italian is no more than a good translation. I have now spent about equal amounts of time listening to it in the French and so haven't got too used to one version over the other.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I LOVE the first third of Faust. So much to love, but the rest is too sappy and moralistic for me. My favorite French opera is actually not an opera but Joan Sutherland's French Opera Gala: the best of French opera sung on a level not heard since.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

The Conte said:


> That's a great production, but IMO Muti isn't the right conductor for this reflective French work.
> 
> N.


Didn't affect me because I am too unmusical to notice. Still, the Koenig set is on my buy list, if it ever has a better price.


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## MNGuy (6 mo ago)

I know this thread is two years old, but I can't resist adding my "votes" even if no one sees them. (I'm making a spreadsheet of "most mentioned" from this thread, and will add mine to the tabulation.) I've made a retirement project out of watching DVD's/streaming of French operas, with subtitles in French, while exercising. Physical fitness, musical enjoyment, and brain training, all rolled into one. It's been wonderful to see all of your recommendations, many of which I'm not at all familiar with. I've seen or listened to about ten French operas over the years, and here's how I would rank those ten, roughly:

1.* Pelleas and Melisande* -- Debussy
2. *Faust* -- Gounod
3.* Les Troyens* -- Berlioz
4. *Carmen *-- Bizet
5.* Dialogues des Carmelites* ---Poulenc
6. *Samson et Delila* -- Saint-Saens 
7. *Les Contes d'Hoffmann* --- Offenbach
8. *Manon* --- Massenet
9.* Romeo et Juliette *-- Gounod
10. *Les Pecheurs de Perles* -- Bizet

I'm thinking my list will look different once I try some of the enthusiastic recommendations from this thread. I'm particularly intrigued by the prospect of watching Les Indes etc. by Rameau, and La Juive.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

W


MNGuy said:


> I know this thread is two years old, but I can't resist adding my "votes" even if no one sees them. (I'm making a spreadsheet of "most mentioned" from this thread, and will add mine to the tabulation.) I've made a retirement project out of watching DVD's/streaming of French operas, with subtitles in French, while exercising. Physical fitness, musical enjoyment, and brain training, all rolled into one. It's been wonderful to see all of your recommendations, many of which I'm not at all familiar with. I've seen or listened to about ten French operas over the years, and here's how I would rank those ten, roughly:
> 
> 1.* Pelleas and Melisande* -- Debussy
> 2. *Faust* -- Gounod
> ...


What kind of physical excercise is suitable in parallel with watching opera with subtitles ? 

I just started learning French language with duolingo, to appreciate French operas better. Thanks for the suggestions.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

MNGuy said:


> I know this thread is two years old, but I can't resist adding my "votes" even if no one sees them. (I'm making a spreadsheet of "most mentioned" from this thread, and will add mine to the tabulation.) I've made a retirement project out of watching DVD's/streaming of French operas, with subtitles in French, while exercising. Physical fitness, musical enjoyment, and brain training, all rolled into one. It's been wonderful to see all of your recommendations, many of which I'm not at all familiar with. I've seen or listened to about ten French operas over the years, and here's how I would rank those ten, roughly:
> 
> 1.* Pelleas and Melisande* -- Debussy
> 2. *Faust* -- Gounod
> ...


Try Massenet's *Werther*, which is my favourite Massenet opera. I'd also recommend Berlioz's *Benvenuto Cellini*, a wonderful opera that doesn't get performed very often.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

French opera is a strange thing. Some of them I like a lot, to others feel nothing. My top ten is following (it's not a rating).
1. Les Troyens.
2. La damnation de Faust. 
3. Benvenuto Cellini. 
4. Les dialogues des carmelites. The most powerful final in the whole opera history. 
5. Le Roi Arthus. A very impressive use of a silence in Merlin's scene among ingenious and mannered music. 
6. Les indes galantes. 
7. Iphigenie en Tauride. 
8. Medee. 
9. La fille d'un regiment. Although I don't perceive French-language operas by Italians as French, but this one seems genuinely French masterpiece. Especially recording with Dessay, where she is like Giulietta Masina. 
10. Thais.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Dialogues des Carmelites
Romeo et Juliette
Faust
Carmen
Manon


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## MNGuy (6 mo ago)

BBSVK said:


> W
> 
> What kind of physical excercise is suitable in parallel with watching opera with subtitles ?
> 
> I just started learning French language with duolingo, to appreciate French operas better. Thanks for the suggestions.


Re physical exercise, I have a very quiet elliptical machine in front of a big TV with a good sound system. Also, some of my free-weight routines work well. Good luck with your French study. If DuoLingo has some vocab sections dealing with love, anger, violence, religion, and war, you'd probably find those most helpful.


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## MNGuy (6 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> Try Massenet's *Werther*, which is my favourite Massenet opera. I'd also recommend Berlioz's *Benvenuto Cellini*, a wonderful opera that doesn't get performed very often.


Thanks. I forgot that I saw Werther live about a decade ago. Didn't really stick with me obviously, but I'll give it another look. I haven't finished my spreadsheet, but I notice that 4 of the first 20 posts mention Cellini so I'm definitely going to give that a try.


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## MNGuy (6 mo ago)

ColdGenius said:


> French opera is a strange thing. Some of them I like a lot, to others feel nothing. My top ten is following (it's not a rating).
> 1. Les Troyens.
> 2. La damnation de Faust.
> 3. Benvenuto Cellini.
> ...


Re #8, is that Medee by Cherubini? One of the early posts mentioned a Medee by Charpentier. (I'm actually in the middle of Iphigenie (Graham and Domingo Met HD broadcast) Too soon for me to rate; I really like a couple of the arias so far, but not sure it will make my top 10.(


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## MNGuy (6 mo ago)

Couac Addict said:


> Carmen
> Hippolyte et Aricie
> Médée
> Pelléas et Mélisande
> Les Troyens


Is that the Medee by Cherubini, or the one by Charpentier?


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

MNGuy said:


> Re #8, is that Medee by Cherubini? One of the early posts mentioned a Medee by Charpentier. (I'm actually in the middle of Iphigenie (Graham and Domingo Met HD broadcast) Too soon for me to rate; I really like a couple of the arias so far, but not sure it will make my top 10.(


Yes, I meant Cherubini. There are some modern productions in French, with Nadia Michael for example. "Historical" recordings with Callas, Johns are in Italian. 
There are several operas about Medea only in French baroque, as I could see in Stephanie D'Oustrac's album.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Medeé
L'Amour de Loin
Pelleas et Melisande 
Faust 
Les Troyens
Don Carlos 
Dialogue des Carmelites 
Carmen
Ifigenie en Tauride
Le Cid


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> Yes, I meant Cherubini. There are some modern productions in French, with Nadia Michael for example. "Historical" recordings with Callas, Johns are in Italian.
> There are several operas about Medea only in French baroque, as I could see in Stephanie D'Oustrac's album.


If Michael sounds as awful as she does on the Biondi *Macbeth *I don't want to hear it.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> If Michael sounds as awful as she does on the Biondi *Macbeth *I don't want to hear it.


I heard her live only once, in _Elektra_, it was impressive. The voice is enormous, effortless, though she's more mezzo than soprano. And she's a notable actress. In recording she impresses less. But I haven't seen that Macbeth. (My needs of Macbeth are fulfilled by the theater I attend).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

ColdGenius said:


> I heard her live only once, in _Elektra_, it was impressive. The voice is enormous, effortless, though she's more mezzo than soprano. And she's a notable actress. In recording she impresses less. But I haven't seen that Macbeth. (My needs of Macbeth are fulfilled by the theater I attend).


It's only on disc, and it is quite some of the worst Verdi singing I've ever heard. The voice may be large, but it is ugly and she hasn't got the technique to get round the notes.

Try this, but I warn you, it's not for the faint hearted.


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## ColdGenius (9 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's only on disc, and it is quite some of the worst Verdi singing I've ever heard. The voice may be large, but it is ugly and she hasn't got the technique to get round the notes.
> 
> Try this, but I warn you, it's not for the faint hearted.


It's a very, very failed recording. Why did they release it at all. Michael loses a lot, when she's not seen.


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## BBSVK (10 mo ago)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's only on disc, and it is quite some of the worst Verdi singing I've ever heard. The voice may be large, but it is ugly and she hasn't got the technique to get round the notes.
> 
> Try this, but I warn you, it's not for the faint hearted.



When I see the name of Fabio Biondi, it is a warning that weird things are going to come. These ideas, that in the old old times, the orchestra was quiter and the singers could sing more lightly. The result is often freaking weird. But you seem to have a different problem with this.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

BBSVK said:


> When I see the name of Fabio Biondi, it is a warning that weird things are going to come. These ideas, that in the old old times, the orchestra was quiter and the singers could sing more lightly. The result is often freaking weird. But you seem to have adifferent problem with this.


Yes. My main problem is that Michael simply can't sing Verdi and especially not early Verdi. This is what it should sound like.


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## Op.123 (Mar 25, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> It's only on disc, and it is quite some of the worst Verdi singing I've ever heard. The voice may be large, but it is ugly and she hasn't got the technique to get round the notes.
> 
> Try this, but I warn you, it's not for the faint hearted.


Wow. That is truly painful, I think I'd rather listen to Netrebko even...


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Op.123 said:


> Wow. That is truly painful, I think I'd rather listen to Netrebko even...


Yes. Me too.


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## OffPitchNeb (Jun 6, 2016)

I have been listening to Spontini lately and am very impressed. No wonder Berlioz considered him one of his role models. His orchestration is quite daring. 

It's interesting that while the Spontini revival started in the 1950s ( _La Vestale_ with Callas, _Fernand Cortez _with Tebaldi, _Agnes von Hohenstaufen_ with Udovich/Corelli), his works never became popular.


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