# I hate regietheater!!!!



## PrimoUomo (Jul 7, 2013)

I absolutely hate _regietheater_. Almost everyone i know also hate/dislikes it. So when do the directors realize what _regietheater_ is some incompetent ******! 







*HALLOO!* WHATS IS THE MEANING??!!
If you like read this interesting article: http://earlymusicworld.com/id44.html

Any opinions?


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

As it appears to be from Handel's _Giulio Cesare_ perhaps it is a reference to the giraffe Julius Caesar brought to Rome in 46BC, which a dramatic event for people who had never seen such an animal as well as being a potent symbol of Caesar's power and supposed mastery of Africa.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/giraffe.html

I love regietheater, it seems to antagonise people who don't much like art.


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## PrimoUomo (Jul 7, 2013)

It is definitely not my taste of art.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I'd often have regie over the same old, same old 18th century costume productions. What is up with characters from Ancient Greece, Rome, other Ancient regions or the Middle Ages, dressed up in 18th century garb?* I've warmed up to a mix and match of costumes from all periods, especially in wackier productions. Generally speaking all I ask is that the production be coherent and not overly arcane, but an element of silly humour will make me overlook a lot (which means _yes_ to the giraffe and/or other animals).

*which is, of course, not to say that I don't have a few favourites that fall into this category. It's the general trend I'm commenting on. Although when you're left with a choice of either 18th century fashions or military (possibly nazi) uniforms...


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## PrimoUomo (Jul 7, 2013)

My experience is that, there are almost none 18th century costume productions,
just regietheater, regietheater, regietheater, regietheater.........


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ lots of Met productions but of course in Europe there's regie galore.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I haven't any experience of watching opera treated like this, but plenty of experience seeing Shakespeare played in jackboots with mobs, sexualised texts, political slants etc and I don't like it either. It doesn't 'shock me out of my complacency' or whatever it's meant to do: it distracts me and annoys me in equal measure. I can't get lost in the production or suspend disbelief. Most annoying was a Henry IV Part One with Harry Hotspur played as a Geordie skinhead and much use made of a red double decker bus. I don't get much chance to see live opera where we live & touring companies are always traditional. If a 'regietheater' production trundled along, I think I'd put the ticket money to better use. 

I don't have a problem with Julius Caesar in Elizabethan dress - the text almost demands it; or togas; or any other setting, including modern, so long as we don't have the 'clever-clever tricks' and smart-alec acting that is now so hackneyed.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

The director Peter Stein is no fan of Regietheater, either. His new production of _Don Carlo _for this year's Salzburg Festival is definitely a traditional one, as this photo shows.


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## PrimoUomo (Jul 7, 2013)

In this case i like the americans meaning about _regietheater_: EUROTRASH!


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

MAuer said:


> The director Peter Stein is no fan of Regietheater, either. His new production of _Don Carlo _for this year's Salzburg Festival is definitely a traditional one, as this photo shows.


I read somewhere that is it supposed to be a spoof on "traditional" productions. Whatever traditional means.

I like some regie productions - the rat Lohengrin, the Munich Lohengrin, the Herheim Parsifal, the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare, the Liceu Eugene Onegin all come to mind. They add a layer without detracting from the original story.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Sometimes I find it difficult to distinguish between 'regie' and 'updated'. I think I've only seen one proper 'regie' though (Jenufa in Zurich) where they changed the story line so much in the last quarter that the opera didn't make sense. Didn't like it much.

But the recent Acis and Galatea which I saw, where Galatea was a pole dancer in a gentleman's club, worked fine :lol:










More photos.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I saw that Giraffe Giulio Cesare in the theatre and liked it. So where does that leave us...?


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> I saw that Giraffe Giulio Cesare in the theatre and liked it. So where does that leave us...?


De gustibus non est disputandum?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

sospiro said:


> Sometimes I find it difficult to distinguish between 'regie' and 'updated'.


updated = when it works

regie = when it doesn't


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## svstats (Jul 1, 2013)

I think it has some value - esp. in regards to Wagner given the dubious backgrounds of some of his works. 

However, I would have balked at the Bayreuth production this year based on what I have read.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

mamascarlatti said:


> I read somewhere that is it supposed to be a spoof on "traditional" productions. Whatever traditional means.
> 
> I like some regie productions - the rat Lohengrin, the Munich Lohengrin, the Herheim Parsifal, the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare, the Liceu Eugene Onegin all come to mind. They add a layer without detracting from the original story.


Based on his interview comments in the July-August issue of _Das Opernglas_, I'd be very surprised if he intended this to be a spoof. In that interview, he made some pretty cutting remarks about Regietheater and its practitioners.


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

I saw a Hans Neuenfels production of Mozart's _La Finta Giardiniera_ in Berlin, which was mild by German Regie standards, but was enormously difficult to follow. But then, Mozart's plot for the opera is so convoluted that even after several readings of the lengthy program synopses, I still wasn't sure what was happening. However, the production was complete with oversized phallic prods, one of the tenors in a bustier and 3 supers with acting roles who had to put their, um, testicles (oranges, really) in a blender. All in all, probably way more entertaining than a traditional production.

I did like Neuenfels' "rat" Lohengrin - I thought the chorus costumes were awesome - the feet and tails were ingenious, but the whole effect (to me) really was only the visual. I hated - hated the ending with the hideous Gottfried giant fetus flinging bits of umbilical cord around the stage. Total buzzkill.

The most successful productions of any operas that I've seen were traditional: the Met's Zeffirelli _Otello_, the Met's ca 1979 _Don Carlos_, the Met's _Tannhäuser_ from the same era and the Deutsche Oper's _Lohengrin_, ca 1975.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Hoffmann said:


> I saw a Hans Neuenfels production of Mozart's _La Finta Giardiniera_ in Berlin, which was mild by German Regie standards, but was enormously difficult to follow. But then, Mozart's plot for the opera is so convoluted that even after several readings of the lengthy program synopses, I still wasn't sure what was happening. *However, the production was complete with oversized phallic prods, one of the tenors in a bustier and 3 supers with acting roles who had to put their, um, testicles (oranges, really) in a blender*.


To me, this sounds like the sort of thing a junior high school kid would find clever and amusing.


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## Vesteralen (Jul 14, 2011)

Do the performers actually enjoy doing this stuff, or are they just so desperate for jobs that they'll do anything?


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

I think most of them convince themselves it's ok until they get their paychecks and can forget all about it. Isn't it that singers will sign up for a production before actually knowing much about it?


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## quack (Oct 13, 2011)

MAuer said:


> To me, this sounds like the sort of thing a junior high school kid would find clever and amusing.


Well junior high school kids share a lot of their humour with ancient greeks (cradle of civilisation, birth of literature etc) who loved some oversized ***** humour in their satyr plays.

>>picture omitted, far too proto-reggie<<


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## Hoffmann (Jun 10, 2013)

MAuer said:


> To me, this sounds like the sort of thing a junior high school kid would find clever and amusing.


It was a bit much. I was sitting with a friend of mine - a very proper woman in her late 60s, and good suburban boy that I am (was), I was squirming (the intended effect, I'm sure). She enjoyed the singing, but did not like the production, as I am sure you can imagine. I was more annoyed that there were no surtitles combined with a good amount of the opera being Singspiel (I read German better than I understand it spoken). I realize, of course, that the audience did not require it, but I sure did.

Considering, the performers were superb. The lead tenor, Joel Prieto, stole the show. Not having heard of him before, I went to his website, where he talked with some pride about a two month rehearsal process for the opera. Clearly, all the performers were enthusiastic and seemed to be enjoying themselves. I suppose it was something different and livened things up some.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I don't mind if a production updates the action to the present dayand/or changes the location of the original to a different country as long as it doesn't degenerate into a mere collection of arbitrary gimmicks done for mere shock effect , which is unfortuntely the norm in Europe now .
For example, the Met's current production of Fidelio switches the action to what looks like a banana republic somewhere in South or Central America , but it does no damage to the opera and is plausible , as the idea of someone being unlawfully held in a prison there makes sense .
But the new Ring at Bayreuth sounds like a total travesty . What the heck does a communist Mount Rushmore with Karl Marx, Lenin and Stalin have to do with the story ? And from the picture , it looks like just about the most ugly opera set I've ever seen . And setting part of it in the modern day Islamic and ethnically Turkish republic of Azerbaijan on the Caspian sea is nothing short of loony ! Just when you think productions in Europe couldn't possibly get loonier, the designers and directors outdo themsleves !


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

quack said:


> Well junior high school kids share a lot of their humour with ancient greeks (cradle of civilisation, birth of literature etc) who loved some oversized ***** humour in their satyr plays.
> 
> >>picture omitted, far too proto-reggie<<


And what happened to that civilization?


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## Posie (Aug 18, 2013)

I don't know if the modernized production of La Traviata with Anna Netrebko and Rolando Villazon can be classified as regietheater, but I loved the minimalistic staging because it really highlighted the talent of the singers.

That being said, I hate modern staging that is distracting and just unpleasant to watch.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

marinasabina said:


> I don't know if the modernized production of La Traviata with Anna Netrebko and Rolando Villazon can be classified as regietheater, but I loved the minimalistic staging because it really highlighted the talent of the singers.


The Decker Traviata is regie for sure.


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## GiulioCesare (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm looking forward to a production of _Nixon in China_ in which Mao Tse-Tung uses a mobile phone.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

GiulioCesare said:


> I'm looking forward to a production of _Nixon in China_ in which Mao Tse-Tung uses a mobile phone.


This raises a good question: why does Peter Sellars go along (more or less) with the stage directions that contemporary composers like Adams or Saariaho provide while completely ignoring those of Mozart?


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Because Adams or Saariaho are standing next to him and they can have a discussion about staging?

The operas of Adams and Saariaho are also still new, far less well known and less frequently performed. It doesn't make sense for the original production to be a re-imagining.


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ I now want to see an 18th century costume production of Nixon in China - possibly set in Japan. Rats and blood should feature somewhere as well.


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

deggial said:


> ^ I now want to see an 18th century costume production of Nixon in China - possibly set in Japan. Rats and blood should feature somewhere as well.


Definitely Rats. I want more operas with pink rats.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

deggial said:


> ^ I now want to see an 18th century costume production of Nixon in China - possibly set in Japan. Rats and blood should feature somewhere as well.


If it were in the 19th century, you could make it _Perry in Japan_. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but...


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## deggial (Jan 20, 2013)

^ I'm down with that as well. Next level regie: changing the title of the opera!


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## Oreb (Aug 8, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> If it were in the 19th century, you could make it _Perry in Japan_. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but...


 Or you could just do _Pacific Overtures_. At least that's got some good tunes :devil:


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## Daintydiana (Apr 22, 2017)

We go to opera for the spectacle as well as the sound. We pay big bucks, so we don't need to see the same old grey old stuff that we can see for free in the street. Urban we see every day; grunge fashion we see every day. We have sworn that we will never again be caught by these pretentious, self-indulgent, self-centred, egotistical producers and directors. No more bookings until we confirm that it isn't regie. Long live primas like Angela Gheorghiu who won't appear in this rotten stuff!


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Daintydiana said:


> *We* go to opera for ......


That's fine. :tiphat: But remember, others have different reasons.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Daintydiana said:


> We go to opera for the spectacle as well as the sound. We pay big bucks, so we don't need to see the same old grey old stuff that we can see for free in the street. Urban we see every day; grunge fashion we see every day. We have sworn that we will never again be caught by these pretentious, self-indulgent, self-centred, egotistical producers and directors. No more bookings until we confirm that it isn't regie. Long live primas like Angela Gheorghiu who won't appear in this rotten stuff!


You're right; opera should appeal to all the senses (not just hearing). Regietheater is ugly, vile and ridiculous; it serves the director's ego rather than the work; and the sooner it's gone, the better.

Boycott regietheater? The counter-revolution starts here!


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

SimonTemplar said:


> opera should appeal to all the senses


I like that idea, especially when creating "historically accurate" productions. Though when the traditionalists do their Disney costumes they usually want to please eyes & ears only but never pay any attention to the nose. Historically accurate smelling should not be ignored. For starters, most operas set in times before around 1800 should have human feces on the stage.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

interestedin said:


> I like that idea, especially when creating "historically accurate" productions. Though when the traditionalists do their Disney costumes they usually want to please eyes & ears only but never pay any attention to the nose. Historically accurate smelling should not be ignored. For starters, most operas set in times before around 1800 should have human feces on the stage.


I assume that it is possible to provide a reasonably accurate historical performance without requiring the audience (or the performers) to endure lice and exposure to tuberculosis or cholera.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

JAS said:


> I assume that it is possible to provide a reasonably accurate historical performance without requiring the audience (or the performers) to endure lice and exposure to tuberculosis or cholera.


I think the opposite is true. The omnipresence of violence, sickness and death is what makes the vastly bigger difference between living in lets say 1600 and living in 2017. The shapes and colors of clothes and furniture on the other hand are details.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

interestedin said:


> I think the opposite is true. The omnipresence of violence, sickness and death is what makes the vastly bigger difference between living in lets say 1600 and living in 2017. The shapes and colors of clothes and furniture on the other hand are details.


And I think I can enjoy Tosca without them actually having to use real bullets. There are reasonable limitations to what should be experienced first-hand and what can be sufficiently appreciated (intellectually) by reading and general awareness.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

interestedin said:


> I think the opposite is true. The omnipresence of violence, sickness and death is what makes the vastly bigger difference between living in lets say 1600 and living in 2017. The shapes and colors of clothes and furniture on the other hand are details.


I think if you add pestilence and war you have where many Regie productions are set. Thats why they all look the same.

Trouble is sometimes it works


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Diana welcome to the forum.

Dare I ask where you go to the Opera that so regularly dissapoints?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> I think if you add pestilence and war you have where many Regie productions are set. Thats why they all look the same.


Battleship gray sets and costumes. Cold, impersonal, grim. Never mind the passionate, colorful, romantic music. The incongruity tells us that love, happiness, beauty and all other positive values are bourgeois escapist fantasies. Be sure and take the kids. They need to see what life is really like.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

interestedin said:


> I like that idea, especially when creating "historically accurate" productions. Though when the traditionalists do their Disney costumes they usually want to please eyes & ears only but never pay any attention to the nose. Historically accurate smelling should not be ignored. For starters, most operas set in times before around 1800 should have human feces on the stage.


I was thinking more along the lines of gunpowder, perfume and incense - but hey, whatever floats your boat.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Daintydiana said:


> We go to opera for the spectacle as well as the sound. We pay big bucks, so we don't need to see the same old grey old stuff that we can see for free in the street. Urban we see every day; grunge fashion we see every day. We have sworn that we will never again be caught by these pretentious, self-indulgent, self-centred, egotistical producers and directors. No more bookings until we confirm that it isn't regie. Long live primas like Angela Gheorghiu who won't appear in this rotten stuff!


Interesting first posts, welcome to TaklClassical.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Daintydiana said:


> We go to opera for the spectacle as well as the sound. We pay big bucks, so we don't need to see the same old grey old stuff that we can see for free in the street. Urban we see every day; grunge fashion we see every day. We have sworn that we will never again be caught by these pretentious, self-indulgent, self-centred, egotistical producers and directors. No more bookings until we confirm that it isn't regie. *Long live primas like Angela Gheorghiu who won't appear in this rotten stuff*!


Agreed!..........................................:tiphat:


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I am more interested in "interestedin"'s approach, whose tongue so clearly fits neatly into his/her cheek.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

nina foresti said:


> I am more interested in "interestedin"'s approach, whose tongue so clearly fits neatly into his/her cheek.


Satire and parody are dead --- now, they are just called the nightly news.


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