# Ballet: Why is it frequent for little girls but not little boys?



## melaniehiscock

This is something that I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on.

Why do parents react to seeing their toddler or little girls' dancing for fun/to the radio by quickly enrolling them in ballet etc., but don't have this reaction when it comes to their sons?

Pretty sexist as Patrick Swayze once famously pointed out.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Well idk about my sisters when they were little, but I like dance around to Kraanerg and Petrushka. 

My perspective is that it is a view inherited from 19th century ideals on what was "proper" for women. Quite in a similar vein was when orchestras first began allowing female members in orchestras they could only play instruments like the flute or the harp (more "feminine" whatever that's meant to mean) and most certainly not a brass or percussion instrument!


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## melaniehiscock

You're right, unfortunately ballet for children has become firmly associated with females, frills and pink glitter in the eyes of too many parents.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Also: ADVERTISEMENTS AND MARKETING are key factors in today's context.


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## PetrB

It is not just dance, but 'the fine arts' in general, and that includes for many, acting as well.

"Not a profession for a real man," ergo, "nothing you would want your boy involved with."

This is pretty much throughout the working and middle classes of western cultures, maybe with some lesser strength to the 'taboo' in Europe. It can vary in the wealthier upper classes -- either some pride that son or daughter chooses to go into the arts, or the same horror they are in for a career making less, probably, than their grandparents made, and some shame reflecting that all the upbringing in and around wealth did not inculcate the scion with any respect or ambition for achieving or maintaining the family wealth.

Other real parental concerns have nothing to do with Johnny growing up to be a sissy, but instead, Johnny choosing to pursue a career with far less obvious or secure paths to regular employment at a decent pay rate.

"Girls grow up to be women, and women get married." Another old saw and rationale. Your daughter the ballet dancer will snag a wealthy husband, who, if for no other reason, will see your lovely dancing daughter as a sort of trophy wife. (Ergo, she can choose an underpaid and dicey career, _her eventual husband will take care of her_

Too, many otherwise loving, great and caring parents have limited notions, set scenarios, of "what is success." Whenever their children choose to pursue anything outside of one of those limited conceptual formats, the parents despair. Too, some are just concerned for John and Jane's future financial security (maybe with the fear that John or Jane will be, well past their young adulthood, still living off of Mom and Dad <g>)

Apologies, it is all ruthlessly sexist and as ruthlessly with an eye to the money -- but I am just reporting the facts.


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## Animato

Do you know the british movie "I will dance" ? There you have got all the prejudices towards boys who like to dance. they are considered homosexual.


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## Taggart

Trouble is, we've stopped doing "proper" dancing. Louis XIV was known for his balletic skills. An ability to cut a caper was not a sign of culinary skill, rather of good dancing. Even ballroom dancing has minimal step work and no real "figures". As for disco dancing .....

As footwork diminished, so ballet became the preserve of the professionals and step work retreated into country dance (with figures) and folk display dancing - Irish step, clog, hornpipe, Highland dancing.

It used to be the case that every PE teacher in Scotland was a qualified Scottish dancing teacher and could teach basic footwork and positions and apply them to the figures. So in Scotland, there was no need for simple ballet because country dancing covered the initial positions. Even there, however, you would find that most of the Highland dancers were women much as many gymnasts are female simply because the style favours elegance over strength.


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## DavidA

It is a matter of culture, partially. I believe in Russia it's considered manly to be a (male) ballet dancer. Of course, it is an incredibly athletic thing to do!


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## senza sordino

In a good strong northern accent
"no son of mine is gonna grow to be a fairy cake dancer!"

I loved the movie Billy Elliot. 

I think it's sad that there aren't more boys dancing. Moreover, tell me a better place to meet girls?!


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## mirepoix

Taggart said:


> <snip>
> 
> It used to be the case that every PE teacher in Scotland was a qualified Scottish dancing teacher and could teach basic footwork and positions and apply them to the figures. So in Scotland, there was no need for simple ballet because country dancing covered the initial positions. Even there, however, you would find that most of the Highland dancers were women much as many gymnasts are female simply because the style favours elegance over strength.


I remember those days well; every winter PE/phys ED classes given over to Scottish dancing. Two lines, one of boys and the other of girls, step forward and choose a partner. The stigma attached was so great that more than once I recall all of us boys preferring to receive the belt (tawse) than be seen to willingly participate.

Yes, in places such as Russia the attitude is different. I worked and lived there for a number of years and witnessed the pride (and encouragement) shown by parents in the dancing, gymnastic or skating activities of their sons.

And as an aside, most of the shirts or t-shirts I wear are pink. When that's coupled with my love of ballet it raises eyebrows here in the UK. But when knowledge of my amateur career as a welterweight is discovered (or a close look at my crumpled old face is taken) it often confuses tiny, narrow, frightened minds.

e: and when I'm seen with my current companion."She's with _him_?!"


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## melaniehiscock

There's a similar problem with fairies in popular culture - they've become indelibly associated with girls and femininity and daintiness... quite different from their more gender neutral (and often malicious) origins.


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## PetrB

melaniehiscock said:


> There's a similar problem with fairies in popular culture - they've become indelibly associated with girls and femininity and daintiness... quite different from their more gender neutral (and often malicious) origins.


Steve Szilagyi's novel, _Photographing Fairies_, made into a wonderful film
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119893/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographing_Fairies
would quickly disabuse the contemporary mild and friendly version of these creatures 

The import of the film is grim, dark, lugubrious and romantic, i.e. more truly in the Romantic Era sensibility than any contemporary notion of 'romantic.'

Some of the current gloss on fairies is similar to different tones and trends in what was once called Spiritism, i.e. communicating with the dead via seances and a medium. In the late 1800's when it was a fresh craze, the dead were _not happily in the ever beyond,_ but our dear departed were instead grieving and depressed things, filled with bitterness and gloomy admonitions for their survivors.

Now, for those who dabble / practice / believe in all that, what our dear departed have to say is all forgiveness, sweetness and light. _Both attitudes are but a fashion. Currently, all sweetness and light is *the* fashion, part of the superficial and highly saccharine (commercialized) take on sentiment._

P.s. you are perpetuating a stereotype -- the tiara in the Avatar photo


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## Itullian

because its feminine.
yes, there is masculine and feminine, even tho modern culture is trying to bury that.
Vive la difference!!!!!


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## melaniehiscock

that's me in my avatar. sorry.


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## PetrB

melaniehiscock said:


> You're right, unfortunately ballet for children has become firmly associated with females, frills and pink glitter in the eyes of too many parents.


Quietly (because it ain't manly, ya know) many a pro football team are put through some rigors of ballet training. The flexibility it requires, as well as pinpoint lightning fast precision of movement, are a great boon to their capability to perform well.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Football+team+takes+ballet+classes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb


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## PetrB

melaniehiscock said:


> that's me in my avatar. sorry.


Don't apologize: I was just jerkin' your chain about that tiara. You look, ahem, more than fine


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## Headphone Hermit

The OP is correct - for some people at least. 

I would never have been allowed to express any interest in ballet - either dancing or watching as it would have been seen as 'unseemly and unfitting' for a boy (or man). I can remember being criticised for bringing home Anna Karenina (not in person, obviously) as it must be a 'woman's book' if the main character was female .... and when the blurb on the back of the book was read .... well, OUCH!!!!

I imagine such prejudice remains depressingly common, unfortunately


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## PetrB

Headphone Hermit said:


> The OP is correct - for some people at least.
> 
> I would never have been allowed to express any interest in ballet - either dancing or watching as it would have been seen as 'unseemly and unfitting' for a boy (or man). I can remember being criticised for bringing home Anna Karenina (not in person, obviously) as it must be a 'woman's book' if the main character was female .... and when the blurb on the back of the book was read .... well, OUCH!!!!
> 
> I imagine such prejudice remains depressingly common, unfortunately


Sadly, your circumstance is just one of thousands as typical, sometimes much harsher. One can only wonder how many of those boys later men were very early on turned off / programmed away from one or more careers in the arts (where -- supposition) they may have had a strong interest, a keen affinity for, an innate ability, and been major talents... a supposition with no realistic supposed answer as to 'how many.'


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## Lunasong

PetrB said:


> Sadly, your circumstance is just one of thousands as typical, sometimes much harsher. One can only wonder how many of those boys later men were very early on turned off / programmed away from one or more careers in the arts (where -- supposition) they may have had a strong interest, a keen affinity for, an innate ability, and been major talents... a supposition with no realistic supposed answer as to 'how many.'


Not to mention to grow up to be arts supporters if they do not continue to actively pursue performance opportunities. I suspect that many proponents of the arts were participants when in their youth; also parents who were involved tend to encourage their children i.e.; take piano lessons instead of pursuing youth football.


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## PetrB

Lunasong said:


> Not to mention to grow up to be arts supporters if they do not continue to actively pursue performance opportunities. I suspect that many proponents of the arts were participants when in their youth; also parents who were involved tend to encourage their children i.e.; take piano lessons instead of pursuing youth football.


It seems to be very Anglo cultural exclusive that one can do /enjoy one or the other, but not both.

"On the European Continent," I knew plenty of healthy red-blooded European males who would be at a Soccer match one night, the following night take their girlfriend to hear a Russian pianist, or an orchestral performance at the concert hall, and some other times they would be listening to a pop band in one or another venue. None of those varied multiple activities seemed to create some basic and/or horrific inner conflict about their identities as 'male,' LOL.


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## Piwikiwi

Itullian said:


> because its feminine.
> yes, there is masculine and feminine, even tho modern culture is trying to bury that.
> Vive la difference!!!!!


I think you are greatly underestimating the physical demands of doing ballet.


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## AliceKettle

I think it's because ballet is so graceful and lithe. You don't see many men with such grace, but it's far more common to spot a girl with that talent. Even if a boy does have such natural grace, they will probably be hesitant to try ballet because it is stereotypically associated with tutus, frilly costumes, and young women. 
Me, I'm a girl, but I'm no ballerina or dancer of any kind. I'm a singer, and proud of it! When I was a little girl, about six or seven, I tried taking a ballet course and failed miserably. I couldn't even get to the third position. Oh well, ballet's not for everyone. I do think that it is beautiful to see, though. I love the way the graceful ballerinas move so fluidly.


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## Taggart

AliceKettle said:


> I think it's because ballet is so graceful and lithe. You don't see many men with such grace, but it's far more common to spot a girl with that talent. Even if a boy does have such natural grace, they will probably be hesitant to try ballet because it is stereotypically associated with tutus, frilly costumes, and young women.
> Me, I'm a girl, but I'm no ballerina or dancer of any kind. I'm a singer, and proud of it! When I was a little girl, about six or seven, I tried taking a ballet course and failed miserably. I couldn't even get to the third position. Oh well, ballet's not for everyone. I do think that it is beautiful to see, though. I love the way the graceful ballerinas move so fluidly.


Watch a good RSCDS dem team. That'll show you a good third position (by men) when they pas de basque. The men will have an elegance and grace only matched by their partners. The step work is all balletic.


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## Ingélou

AliceKettle said:


> I think it's because ballet is so graceful and lithe. You don't see many men with such grace, but it's far more common to spot a girl with that talent. Even if a boy does have such natural grace, they will probably be hesitant to try ballet because it is stereotypically associated with tutus, frilly costumes, and young women.
> Me, I'm a girl, but I'm no ballerina or dancer of any kind. I'm a singer, and proud of it! When I was a little girl, about six or seven, I tried taking a ballet course and failed miserably. I couldn't even get to the third position. Oh well, ballet's not for everyone. I do think that it is beautiful to see, though. I love the way the graceful ballerinas move so fluidly.


Since 'Billy Elliot' & other modern cultural initiatives, though, more boys have come forward. This is a quote from a 'Ballet is for Boys' website:

*Precise plies, pirouettes and jetes, but it's not all pointe shoes and tutus in ballet. For the first time at National Ballet School of Canada, first-year boy students outnumber the girls.
Teachers and practitioners have long tried to encourage boys to dance in what is often stereotyped as a girl's activity. "I think all of us that have been here a long time have tried to encourage young boys to see ballet as an artistic option for them," said teacher Laurel Toto.
This year it seems some of that encouragement has worked to break down some of those preconceived notions about the very tough physical art form.
More boys in class also means more balanced training for the girls. "When I started there were four boys, so it was a little disappointing, but I think its great, I think ballet is getting cooler," said ballerina Olivia McAlpine.*


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## Majed Al Shamsi

I personally don't look good in tights.


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## amfortas

melaniehiscock said:


> that's me in my avatar. sorry.


You rock that tiara.


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## Vaneyes

In the 1980's, I saw the touring companies of Bolshoi, Kirov, Royal. Those were the days, my friends, I thought they'd never end.


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## ICHTHUS

I think what might change the minds of this question would be for those of such a mindset should watch the Australian's production with Steven Heathcote dancing Spartacus. That role is so masculine for any dancer. I just happen to like Heathcote's performance.


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## jegreenwood

Seeing this thread pop up reminded me of this article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/...n-and-ballet-in-the-21st-century.html?mcubz=1


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## mbhaub

I saw this thread and can't resist: in America, for as long as we can remember, a guy doing ballet has always had his sexuality questioned...and it wasn't good. But I had a childhood friend who came from an educated, arts-loving family. He not only learned trombone and piano, but his parents put him (and his siblings) in ballet. He was a stunningly beautiful young man - magnificent physique, the blue eyes, blond hair - he had it all. And after high school and college went on to play football in the NFL for six years before an ACL injury ended it. A lot of sports commentators interviewed him and frequently mentioned that he was so graceful, fluid and mobile on the field. He credited it to his ballet training - he learned how to use and move his body. Now, he's an advocate for teaching ballet to all young people in school.


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## jegreenwood

Balanchine said "Ballet is woman." And yet:


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## Sissone

Animato said:


> Do you know the british movie "I will dance" ? There you have got all the prejudices towards boys who like to dance. they are considered homosexual.


I know many male ballet dancers and they are not homosexuals. The movie does not tell the truth.
I also do not like Black Swan movie,where ballerinas are considered psychopaths.


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## Star

I have noticed far more girls than boys doing gymnastics. Maybe our culture which has weirdly labelled both gymnastics and ballet as not the thing for boys to do. But both gymnasts and ballet dancers are unmatched for strength and fitness - probably fitter than soccer players!


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## jegreenwood

I was at "The Nutcracker" about 10 days ago. I would say the number of girls (including my grandniece) in the audience outnumbered the boys about 10 to 1.


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## DavidA

I can remember in one musical production I did we got the boys to dance. They were aghast at this at first but when they got into it they absolutely loved it and did better than the girls!


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## Sissone

Star said:


> I have noticed far more girls than boys doing gymnastics. Maybe our culture which has weirdly labelled both gymnastics and ballet as not the thing for boys to do. But both gymnasts and ballet dancers are unmatched for strength and fitness - probably fitter than soccer players
> I could not agree more.


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## Pugg

"Dancer'' docomentary'' the movie'' (2016)"FuLL"Movie"Online [Sergei Polunin]

Must see for every ballet dancer,


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## Larkenfield

For young boys involved in dance or ballet, harassment or getting beaten up by classmates is far too common and it's not mentioned enough with regard to some of the hazards some students have to put up with. The movie _The Company_, which is about the Joffrey ballet in performance, points this out. This is a favorite film on dance because it takes an inside look at the realities of being in a high profile dance company. A number of the performances are beautiful, spectacular and thrilling. The dancers were willing to put up with the downside in order to find out just how talented they could be. Some artists simply have no choice but to put up with the social stigma in order to live their dream.


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## Sissone

Larkenfield said:


> For young boys involved in dance or ballet, harassment or getting beaten up by classmates is far too common and it's not mentioned enough with regard to some of the hazards some students have to put up with. The movie _The Company_, which is about the Joffrey ballet in performance, points this out. This is a favorite film on dance because it takes an inside look at the realities of being in a high profile dance company. A number of the performances are beautiful, spectacular and thrilling. The dancers were willing to put up with the downside in order to find out just how talented they could be. Some artists simply have no choice but to put up with the social stigma in order to live their dream.


I do not know the movie,but sometimes films portraying ballet dancers are far from reality/for example The Black Swan/


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## LezLee

I don’t know any dancers but I think you possibly have to think of classical ballet and modern ballet differently. Little girls are drawn to ballets such as Nutcracker, Sleeping Beauty, Les Syphides, Giselle etc because of the soppy storylines, fairytale costumes and often somewhat sickly sweet music. It’s quite understandable that boys might want something more masculine. If there were more ballets like Matthew Bourne’s marvellous Car Man, there would probably be more boys interested.
Also there are a lot more parts available for girls in the Corps du Ballet for instance.


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## Sissone

To love ballet requires romantic feelings a capacity to appreciate the beauty of movement accompanied by beautiful music.I think there are a lot of men who enjoy the art of ballet.I see them in the audience.


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## melaniehiscock

sadly ballet is still associated with pink and tutus and perfume and flowers to many boys. Most boys don't want to get beaten up and a lot of gender equality women and mothers ignore that because of their idealism.


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## Sissone

melaniehiscock said:


> sadly ballet is still associated with pink and tutus and perfume and flowers to many boys. Most boys don't want to get beaten up and a lot of gender equality women and mothers ignore that because of their idealism.


This is a very common stereotype in ballet that everything is pink and frilly and fairies....No not at all. Ballet is hard work People do not realize how athletic ballet is.A dancer has to be physically strong.


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## Pugg

Sissone said:


> This is a very common stereotype in ballet that everything is pink and frilly and fairies....No not at all. Ballet is hard work People do not realize how athletic ballet is.A dancer has to be physically strong.


Exactly, see the documentary about Sergei Polunin I posted.


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## Sissone

Pugg said:


> Exactly, see the documentary about Sergei Polunin I posted.


Yes,your documentary about S.Polunin proves that.As far as pink colors are concerned,I have only worn pink tutu in The Sleeping Beauty/Aurora/


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## Nate Miller

before we go blaming culture and sterotypes.....maybe there really aren't opportunities for kids to do ballet except in big cities?

I grew up here in the good ol USA. When I was growing up, no one played soccer. Nevermind that in 1950 we (USA national team) beat England in their stadium in their country...soccer just was not played in the 1970s here. It took a real effort at the grass roots to get soccer off the ground. First thing we needed was some soccer fields and some youth leagues so that if someone wanted to play, there was an opportunity.

I do not see this happening in ballet, so I don't think you can pin this on homophobes and male stereotypes

but don't let that slow anybody down! :lol:


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## jegreenwood

Nate Miller said:


> before we go blaming culture and sterotypes.....maybe there really aren't opportunities for kids to do ballet except in big cities?
> 
> I grew up here in the good ol USA. When I was growing up, no one played soccer. Nevermind that in 1950 we (USA national team) beat England in their stadium in their country...soccer just was not played in the 1970s here. It took a real effort at the grass roots to get soccer off the ground. First thing we needed was some soccer fields and some youth leagues so that if someone wanted to play, there was an opportunity.
> 
> I do not see this happening in ballet, so I don't think you can pin this on homophobes and male stereotypes
> 
> but don't let that slow anybody down! :lol:


Can you try something - open up Google maps and have it search for ballet schools in [the county where you grew up]. I grew up in Westchester, outside of NYC, so that may not be representative of the rest of the country. However, Google found about 50 ballet/dance schools. Even more in Nassau County, Long Island.


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## Nate Miller

jegreenwood said:


> Can you try something - open up Google maps and have it search for ballet schools in [the county where you grew up]. I grew up in Westchester, outside of NYC, so that may not be representative of the rest of the country. However, Google found about 50 ballet/dance schools. Even more in Nassau County, Long Island.


I live out in the country in central Pennsylvania. there is one ballet school. I know because they asked me and my duet partner to play for them in November.

that really doesn't compete with all the baseball, soccer, la cross, football and basketball leagues here. There are travel teams, church leagues, YMCA leagues and all that if you can't make the team at your school.

So it would seem to me that boys have a lot more opportunites to play sports, so probably all their friends are playing ball, too

but its good to know that around NYC ballet is thriving. That would go a along way to explaining the Giants season this year


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## Pugg

Sissone said:


> Yes,your documentary about S.Polunin proves that.As far as pink colors are concerned,I have only worn pink tutu in The Sleeping Beauty/Aurora/


Sometimes one has to suffer for art, so to speak.


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## Sissone

In my opinion ballet schools should encourage boys to dance.It is important to find ways of reminding boys that dance is a physical and athletic activity.Emphasize this in classes by watching male dancers in action and compare the relationship between athleticism in dance and sport.Teachers advertising classes should make it clear in the pictures and wording that boys are welcomed too,or offer free classes for boys.


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## melaniehiscock

sadly, too many ballet schools still market themselves to the mothers of little girls and talk about "little princesses" in their advertising.


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## jegreenwood

Nate Miller said:


> I live out in the country in central Pennsylvania. there is one ballet school. I know because they asked me and my duet partner to play for them in November.
> 
> that really doesn't compete with all the baseball, soccer, la cross, football and basketball leagues here. There are travel teams, church leagues, YMCA leagues and all that if you can't make the team at your school.
> 
> So it would seem to me that boys have a lot more opportunites to play sports, so probably all their friends are playing ball, too
> 
> but its good to know that around NYC ballet is thriving. That would go a along way to explaining the Giants season this year


Interestingly, Pennsylvania is the birthplace of 5 of New York City Ballet's 23 principal dancers including three men. And only one from a big city. Two are from Carlisle and two are from Altoona.


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## Nate Miller

jegreenwood said:


> Interestingly, Pennsylvania is the birthplace of 5 of New York City Ballet's 23 principal dancers including three men. And only one from a big city. Two are from Carlisle and two are from Altoona.


a lot of famous athletes came from PA, too. My point is not that ballet opportunities for kids do not exist, but that there are many more opportunities to play other sports.

nobody is stopping boys from getting into ballet. Its just that when I look around, what I see is boys playing ball. I don't really see ballet competing with even Church league basketball


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## Sissone

jegreenwood said:


> Interestingly, Pennsylvania is the birthplace of 5 of New York City Ballet's 23 principal dancers including three men. And only one from a big city. Two are from Carlisle and two are from Altoona.


I hope NYC ballet will get along well under new leaders.


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## Pugg

Ity's a bit like playing soccer, when girls want to play they are called lesbians, then again, who cares, better been talked about then being anonymous.


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## Sissone

melaniehiscock said:


> sadly, too many ballet schools still market themselves to the mothers of little girls and talk about "little princesses" in their advertising.


They should market themselves to the mothers of little boys and talk about "little princes"There are not only princesses in ballets,but princes too.


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## melaniehiscock

If we were able to break down the "perfume and flowers" image, we might see more boys in ballet.


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## Sissone

melaniehiscock said:


> If we were able to break down the "perfume and flowers" image, we might see more boys in ballet.


The art of ballet is rather sweat blood,sometimes tears and disappointment than "perfume and flowers"It is not a job to make money,You have to love dance,you have to be born to dance.


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## Pugg

Sissone said:


> The art of ballet is rather sweat blood,sometimes tears and disappointment than "perfume and flowers"It is not a job to make money,You have to love dance,you have to be born to dance.


Exactly , that's why there are so few who making it, or afraid for being called sissy.
They don't have the guts/ stamina and they rather playing soccer.


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## Nate Miller

in a free society, you have to accept it when people don't want to do something. That's part of living as a free people.

as much as you personally might love ballet, you cannot judge others who do not share your passion. Expecting a large demographic like "boys" to flock to ballet is not a reasonable expectation. Fact is, an athletic boy has a much better shot at a college scholarship playing sports.

so it is just not a popular thing to do. its as simple as that


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## Marsilius

Better news, I'm pleased to say, from the UK.....

https://www.standard.co.uk/go/londo...orts-huge-rise-in-pupil-numbers-a3451316.html


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## Pugg

Marsilius said:


> Better news, I'm pleased to say, from the UK.....
> 
> https://www.standard.co.uk/go/londo...orts-huge-rise-in-pupil-numbers-a3451316.html


Great news, let's hope the rest off the world will follow.


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## Sissone

Pugg said:


> Great news, let's hope the rest off the world will follow.


Yes,I could not agree more!


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## Marsilius

Some anecdotal evidence... I saw the Royal Ballet _Giselle_ at Covent Garden this afternoon (excellent, by the way) - and I'd hazard a guess that boys in the audience outnumbered the girls.


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## Sissone

I think taking ballet classes is awesome especially for a boy.He is around lots of girls,all the girls are in an incredible shape and they think he is awesome because hi is the only guy around to partner them.The most important effect of being around girls is that boys will learn how to be friends with girls.I think it is hard for a lot of boys to have relationships with girls without some sexual component.Ballet will learn them how to act normal around around girls.The myth that ballet makes you gay is not based on reality.No such activity can suddenly turn you gay.Among all the male dancers I have met only several of them were gay.


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## Capeditiea

So at a young age, i wanted to learn, though my dad, (he amounts to about 95% of my issues... i know) said "Ballet is for girls" to top things off, i was flexible, graceful, and such. i was also picked on by it. Get this, i come from a suburb of one of the top fifty largest cities in the world. (so being in a large city means nothing.) 
But, my mom knew my passion for what ever i was inclined to do as a child... again my dad would always rip apart my dreams and ambitions usually when it came to being creative. which in the end not everyone can live their dreams. because society is a monster to some. 

Though I was influenced to enjoy ballet from going to see the nutcracker through school at the local theatre. (we have two or three here... all pretty much in a mile radius of each other.)


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## melaniehiscock

and there's the thorny question of whether trans girls and women should be considered ballerinas or balletists. I think it's a valid reason to be concerned about how trans girls have all the physical advantages of a bio-male body which the biologically female body does not have. What their mental identity is doesn't affect that.


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## Sissone

Yes,it is true not everyone can live their dreams.Ballet is a lifestyle,not a job.You can not do it for money,We dance because it is our passion.I wish you enjoy ballet performances at your theater


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## Capeditiea

melaniehiscock said:


> and there's the thorny question of whether trans girls and women should be considered ballerinas or balletists. I think it's a valid reason to be concerned about how trans girls have all the physical advantages of a bio-male body which the biologically female body does not have. What their mental identity is doesn't affect that.


personally, i think it is up to them, though society ends up often having the opposite idea. Which various areas would insist they are balletists, while their friends would consider them ballerinas. 
I for one, would accept both. Knowing the above is the case. Sometimes one just has to deal with the public opinion. Sadly.

But yes, acrobatically, there is a major difference in stature and in form. Plus... the movement... would require some really good tucking techniques... which would end in embarassment and contraversy.


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## Marsilius

Many dances in classical ballet require the female corps de ballet members to be virtually identical to each other in appearance, so as to operate collectively as a homogeneous single unit and most definitely not to draw attention to any individual member - think of, say, the white Acts in _Swan lake_ or the Kingdom of the shades in _La bayadère_. Any individual's physical characteristic such as height or build that negates the dancers' collective homogeneity thereby detracts from the harmonious and uniform artistic effect intended by a choreographer such as Petipa.

That consideration certainly needs to be borne in mind when casting a traditionally mounted classical ballet, though it is not, on the other hand, of much or any importance in the post-classical repertoire or in iconoclastic productions of the classics.


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## Sissone

Marsilius said:


> Many dances in classical ballet require the female corps de ballet members to be virtually identical to each other in appearance, so as to operate collectively as a homogeneous single unit and most definitely not to draw attention to any individual member - think of, say, the white Acts in _Swan lake_ or the Kingdom of the shades in _La bayadère_. Any individual's physical characteristic such as height or build that negates the dancers' collective homogeneity thereby detracts from the harmonious and uniform artistic effect intended by a choreographer such as Petipa.
> 
> That consideration certainly needs to be borne in mind when casting a traditionally mounted classical ballet, though it is not, on the other hand, of much or any importance in the post-classical repertoire or in iconoclastic productions of the classics.


Yes,that is right,for example pas de quatre from Swan lake requires females identical to each other in appearance.


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## Sissone

To have ballerina perfection is usually to be five foot three to five foot eight,with long legs a slender torso and well arched feet.The problem starts when young women loose the "girlish" physique,hips starts to fill out and breasts begin to develop.
Ballet is strenuous and demanding on the body.As such a ballerina will build up a considerable amount of muscles especially in the legs and she can put on weight and this can cause a problem in partnering...But nobody is perfect.


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## melaniehiscock

Again, I don't think a biologically male body with all of its advantages over a biologically female body, should be classified as a ballerina. It might be fair with regard to gender identity, but it not fair with regard to physical ability and advantages, given sexual dimorphism.


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## Sissone

The term ballerina is often used incorrectly to describe a female ballet dancer.Ballerina is a title given for female principal dancers,others are dancers/soloists,demi soloists,corps de ballet members or apprentices/


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## Pugg

About two weeks ago the Dutch dance academy made a complain, the didn't get enough girls, they where "overflowed " by boys.....who wanted to became ballet dancer.
Really I am not kidding you.


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## Sissone

I like to hear that boys have discovered the art of ballet in your country.I hope it will follow in other dance academies.


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