# Looking for Mahler Das Lied von der Erde with light soprano



## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

OK, yes, please don't scoff in derision at the thread title.









I have a number of widely acclaimed DLVDE recordings (and some not-so-acclaimed), including (just to let you know my point-of-reference) Haitini-Amsterdam (with Janet Baker), Giulini-Berlin (with Brigitte Fassbaender), Barenboim-Chicago (with Waltraud Meier), Oue-Minnesota (with Michelle DeYoung), Inbal-Frankfurt (with Jard Van Nes), Sinopoli-Dresden (with Iris Vermillion), Karajan-Berlin (with Christa Ludwig), Bernstein-Vienna (with two men), Maazel-Bavarian RSO (with Waltraud Meier), Thomas-San Francisco (with two men), Klemperer-Philharmonia (with Christa Ludwig), Boulez-Vienna (with Violeta Urmana), Solti-Chicago (with Yvonne Minton), Rattle-Birmingham (with two men), Walter-Vienna (with Kathleen Ferrier), Reiner-Chicago (with Maureen Forrester), and Bernstein-Israel (with Christa Ludwig).

First of all, it's astounding that Christa Ludwig is on no less than three of those recordings. She was obviously very highly thought of regarding DLVDE. (And Waltraud Meier is on two of them, also quite an achievement.)

Now, to get to my point: Every one of these recordings that use a woman singer (I have absolutely ZERO interest in a DLVDE with two men) uses a mezzo-soprano with a strongly "matronly" sound, for lack of a better word. They all sound like a grandmother with a wonderful voice - but a grandmother, none the less.

And considering that Mahler did say "mezzo-soprano" and also considering the character of the three mezzo-soprano songs in DLVDE, I fully recognize that the "matronly" sound is probably the most appropriate if one remains faithful to Mahler's intentions.

There lies the "rub", however. Having heard plenty of DLVDE's that (attempt, at least, to) honor Mahler's intentions, I want to hear one that panders more to MY wish - which is for a more light/lyrical soprano sound, a la Kathleen Battle, for example.

So I'm asking, is anybody aware of a decent-sounding recording made during the stereo era that uses a woman singer who isn't so "matronly" sounding?







(keeping in mind that it would probably have been panned by all the critics for using the "wrong" sort of woman singer - just imagine the derision that would result, for example, if somebody used Kathleen Battle to record DLVDE even though I might find it highly enjoyable to listen to....)

(I'm currently working my way through the samples on amazon, but haven't found anything promising yet...)


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I am not aware of any recording or even performance using a soprano. Be a bit like recording Falstaff with a tenor in the title role. Mahler's intention was for two contrasting voices - low female / male and high male. He wanted the richness of the mezzo/contralto sound. Why Ferrier with Walter is so remarkable.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

When your done on Amazon, try this:

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/59578/Gustav-Mahler-Das-Lied-von-der-Erde

Good luck, you will be needing it :tiphat:


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I don't think it was recorded, but sometime in the '90s, Ozawa and the BSO scheduled a DLvdE with Kathleen Battle (I forget the tenor). Battle being Battle, she agreed to do the NYC run-out, but not the subscription concerts in Boston. Ozawa being Ozawa, he agreed, then scheduled Thomas Quasthoff to do the Boston concerts -- which according to the critics, were superior to the Carnegie Hall one.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

DavidA said:


> I am not aware of any recording or even performance using a soprano. Be a bit like recording Falstaff with a tenor in the title role. Mahler's intention was for two contrasting voices - low female / male and high male. He wanted the richness of the mezzo/contralto sound. Why Ferrier with Walter is so remarkable.


Right, I realize all of this, and I would certainly never expect anybody to actually try what I am suggesting in a live performance. I guess what I'm looking for is somewhat akin to Kleiber's recording of Tristan und Isolde, with Margaret Price as Isolde. She started out as a Mozart singer and is definitely more in the Kathleen Battle/light-lyric soprano mold, and could never get away with performing Isolde on the stage, but in a recording, the microphone was her salvation. And for what it's worth, there's a lot of people who swear that her Isolde recording is the best one around.

I was hoping to find something somewhat similar with Das Lied von der Erde.


Pugg said:


> When your done on Amazon, try this:
> 
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/59578/Gustav-Mahler-Das-Lied-von-der-Erde
> 
> Good luck, you will be needing it :tiphat:


In fact, while you were typing this, I was busy spending about an hour or so going through every recording of DLVDE on Presto Classical and listening to samples of "Von der Schönheit" to see if I could find that elusive female singer with the sound I was looking for.

I didn't find a Kathleen Battle sound-alike, but I did manage to find Alice Coote with Marc Albrecht conducting the Netherlands Philharmonic (and Burkhard Fritz, tenor) on Pentatone, a label that I've had good luck with in the past (particularly on their Julia Fischer violin recordings).

Coote has a noticeably lighter sound than either Christa Ludwig or Janet Baker (although she's definitely still an alto), but she takes an indepth introspective interpretive approach that reminds me of Janet Baker. The Netherlands Philharmonic, being a Dutch orchestra, has a sound that reminds me of the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, so they've certainly got the right Mahler sound, at least.

I haven't finished listening to the whole thing yet (I bought the studio-quality flac download), so I'll have to report later on how the rest of DLVDE holds up.

I certainly do appreciate your Presto Classical suggestion - if I had not already been aware of it, then it would have been a really awesome discovery for me. Anybody else here who's not familiar with it should check it out. It's my favorite online classical store, because you can usually purchase instant flac downloads in the same quality as if you're listening to a physical CD.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

MarkW said:


> I don't think it was recorded, but sometime in the '90s, Ozawa and the BSO scheduled a DLvdE with Kathleen Battle (I forget the tenor). Battle being Battle, she agreed to do the NYC run-out, but not the subscription concerts in Boston. Ozawa being Ozawa, he agreed, then scheduled Thomas Quasthoff to do the Boston concerts -- which according to the critics, were superior to the Carnegie Hall one.


That would be fascinating, to hear Kathleen Battle do it, especially after the terrific job she did on Sym # 4's Das Himmlische Leben (sp?) with Maazel and Vienna.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

By the way, just because I downloaded the Albrecht-Netherlands-Coote-Fritz recording doesn't mean I'm done looking. Anybody who has any other suggestions, please jump in.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Having now listened to movements 1-5, I can report that, so far, this Albrecht-Netherlands recording might be my new favorite DLVDE. Both singers have a sound quality that I find pleasing and not off-putting in the slightest. (This is the first and only recording of DLVDE I've ever heard of which I can say that.) In addition, both singers and also Albrecht and the orchestra seem to be giving a great deal of thought to the melodic line and how it fits with the words. (Being a non-German speaker, I'm heavily dependent on following translations in that regard.) But it seems to be a more engaging, involved performance than I can recall hearing, with a bar-by-bar attention to detail and lyrical expressiveness that won't allow me to press the <STOP> button, even though it's WAY past my bedtime. This might have something to do with Albrecht's opera-conducting background.

The recorded sound is also outstanding, which is no surprise, being on the Pentatone label.

I'm going to have to force myself to stop, however, and save Der Abschied for tomorrow - er um, later today, that is.....


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

dsphipps100 said:


> Having now listened to movements 1-5, I can report that, so far, this Albrecht-Netherlands recording might be my new favorite DLVDE. Both singers have a sound quality that I find pleasing and not off-putting in the slightest. (This is the first and only recording of DLVDE I've ever heard of which I can say that.) In addition, both singers and also Albrecht and the orchestra seem to be giving a great deal of thought to the melodic line and how it fits with the words. (Being a non-German speaker, I'm heavily dependent on following translations in that regard.) But it seems to be a more engaging, involved performance than I can recall hearing, with a bar-by-bar attention to detail and lyrical expressiveness that won't allow me to press the <STOP> button, even though it's WAY past my bedtime. The recorded sound is also outstanding, which is no surprise, being on the Pentatone label.
> 
> I'm going to have to force myself to stop, however, and save Der Abschied for tomorrow - er um, later today, that is.....


Sleep well and glad you liked the Presto site:tiphat:


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

It sounds like you want Barbara Hendricks or Felicity Lott. Perhaps if research by the singer you have in mind you might uncover a bootleg concert performance or something.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Triplets said:


> It sounds like you want Barbara Hendricks or Felicity Lott. Perhaps if research by the singer you have in mind you might uncover a bootleg concert performance or something.


I'll check it out, thanks.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Unfortunately, a search for DLVDE recordings (live, commercial, or otherwise) with Barbara Hendricks and/or Felicity Lott turned up dry.

However, I can happily report that, now having heard Der Abschied on the Albrecht recording I downloaded last night (along with the other movements that I also listened to last night), that this is now my new favorite DLVDE.










Marc Albrecht brings an operatically dramatic sense to the work, with a sense of attempting to project the meaning behind the proceedings as the music unfolds - as opposed to the unfortunate tendency of too many recordings that sound like a mere time-beater is standing on the podium by comparison. Phrases that are too commonly simply played through by the orchestra on other recordings give the impression of being "sung" by the instrumentalists in this performance, as if Albrecht and the orchestra are equally engaged in Mahler's "message" along with the two soloists.

The Netherlands Philharmonic, being a Dutch orchestra, has a sound very similar to the Amsterdam Concertgebouw, which is therefore, of course, perfectly idiomatic for anything by Mahler. Their performance throughout DLVDE seemed every bit as good as I would have expected from the Concertgebouw themselves, very enjoyable and flawless to my ears.

One thing I really enjoy about the tenor, Burkhard Fritz, is that he never seems to be yelling at me. There are far too many tenors who, to my ears at least, sound like they're yelling at me (somewhat) on pitch, which I always find disconcerting. Rene Kollo on Karajan's DLVDE does a far job of avoiding this, but James King on the Haitink-Amsterdam recording is just dreadful in this regard. Some listeners might consider such a "yelling" approach as simply being highly dramatic, perhaps in an operatic sense, but you can have it, as far as I'm concerned. DLVDE is a symphony of songs after all, not an opera. Fritz's performance is very appropriately leaning more toward a musical approach (as opposed to a "dramatic" approach), and seems very nicely successful at it to my ears.

Alice Coote is the best part of this album for me, however. I stated earlier in this thread that I wanted a lighter sound than the "matronly", heavier-sounding approach commonly favored by such performers as Kathleen Ferrier, Christa Ludwig, or Janet Baker, wishing instead for a Kathleen Battle-type of sound. Interestingly, one of the composers Battle become best known for early in her career was Mozart, and according to Coote's biography included in the notes with the downloaded files on this recording, Mozart is one of the composers Coote is best known for as well.

While Coote's sound isn't anywhere nearly as light and airy as Battle's renowned Das Himmlische Leben (from the Maazel-Vienna Sym # 4 recording), it's still a big step in that direction from the Ferrier-Ludwig-Baker recordings that I've previously heard. Coote's voice still has plenty of weight and expressive power for the lower tessitura passages, but she also has a lightness and clarity of diction that I find very refreshing to listen to.

Interestingly enough (and perhaps somewhat sadly/tragically) this is the only recording I have ever heard of DLVDE where I actually enjoy both soloists. Every other recording I have ever encountered (see my list above in the OP) has at least one soloist who I just don't really enjoy listening to. This is the first one I've heard where I'm not going to have to switch to another recording for the tenor or for the mezzo-soprano movements.

The recorded sound from Pentatone is similar to what I have experienced on other Pentatone releases, which means that it's excellent. The sound seems completely natural, with the listener placed in the front part of the hall, where there's plenty of impact and clarity to the proceedings, but enough distance to still have plenty of ambience. The multi-layered details of Mahler's intricately-complex orchestration come through with excellent clarity, even in the loudest passages, such as the center section of Von der Schönheit. (Now I just need to get some sort of SACD setup to do with my computer's surround sound setup so I can get the physical SACD copy of this recording and hear the surround sound in all of its glory.)

For anybody else looking for a Mahler Das Lied von der Erde, this Albrecht-Netherlands-Coote-Fritz version will get my very happy recommendation.


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## Jeffrey Smith (Jan 2, 2016)

I have heard and liked Coote in a couple of things. Mahlerwise, she appears on Paavo Jarvi's recording of M2, but the chief suggestion I would make about her is The Dream of Gerontius with Elder and the Halle.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Did Beverly Sills ever sing this piece?


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Florestan said:


> Did Beverly Sills ever sing this piece?


She was the soprano on the Abravanel/Utah Sym recording of Mahler's 2nd Sym, but that's the only Mahler recording of hers that I can find.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Did Beverly Sills ever sing this piece?





dsphipps100 said:


> She was the soprano on the Abravanel/Utah Sym recording of Mahler's 2nd Sym, but that's the only Mahler recording of hers that I can find.


Don't look any further, that's the only thing she did by Mahler as far here repertoire going :tiphat:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Did Beverly Sills ever sing this piece?


Try to find it Florestan, ( the second off Mahler) very worth your while :tiphat:


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Here is the 5th mvt from Abravanel's Sym # 2 recording:






It _should_ be with Beverly Sills after the "Aufersteh'n" section. (The first soprano entrance is at about 20:30 on this video.)

(It's interesting to hear how the Utah Symphony struggled somewhat with this performance, technically. I'm certain that today, they would probably give a cleaner performance, considering the way that American orchestras have become so much more technically proficient since then.)


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

dsphipps100 said:


> Here is the 5th mvt from Abravanel's Sym # 2 recording:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you, ever so nice of you :tiphat:


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Thank you, ever so nice of you :tiphat:


Just a quick YouTube search, only took a few seconds.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

dsphipps100 said:


> Just a quick YouTube search, only took a few seconds.


I know, but nevertheless.
I do have the recording by the way and Florestan is a fanatic collector


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