# Music for the apocalypse



## Durendal (Oct 24, 2018)

The coronavirus outbreak that we're all dealing with has halted daily life, making for a very dreary, depressing experience with no end in sight. My question to you is: what is the perfect soundtrack to this reflect this stark reality? I'm thinking dark, morose classical music. I have a feeling that modern composers will dominate the suggestions. I was listening to various works by Rautavaara lately, and they are extremely well suited to this situation since his music always seems to have a brooding, forboding mood. Which other composers made pieces in a similar, unsettling manner?


----------



## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Suk 'Asrael'. ..........


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Strauss Metamorphosen. Literally about the downfall and destruction of a culture.


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Mahler "Das Lied von der Erde" Christa Ludwig/Waldemar Kmentt/Carlos Kleiber


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Allan Pettersson, Symphony No. 6


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Towards the flame.......


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

A lot of Morton Feldman for me lately. I find it kindof brings me to some peace with the current situation. I work in healthcare and have had a lot on my mind lately. Sometimes all I want to do is zone out to some entrancing music from another plane of existence.


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

kJ scad kjnd skin bdmj ndmj ndmj n


----------



## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

flamencosketches said:


> A lot of Morton Feldman for me lately. I find it kindof brings me to some peace with the current situation. I work in healthcare and have had a lot on my mind lately. Sometimes all I want to do is zone out to some entrancing music from another plane of existence.


Stay healthy. And thank you.


----------



## Helgi (Dec 27, 2019)

Verdi Requiem with Carlo Maria Giulini, thinking of this one in particular:






The Philharmonia Chorus of this era always sounds like the world is ending, to my ears, especially with Giulini on the podium.


----------



## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

The Judgment of the King of Navarre was written by Guillaume Machaut right in the middle of the Black Death (1349). From #9 _Si Que Ces Tempestes Cesserent_:

"People weakened,
Emaciated and faded
With buboes and ulcers
That caused immediate death;
Nobody could get out
Nobody spoke in groups"


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Room2201974 said:


> The Judgment of the King of Navarre was written by Guillaume Machaut right in the middle of the Black Death (1349). From #9 _Si Que Ces Tempestes Cesserent_:
> 
> "People weakened,
> Emancipated and faded
> ...


I'm guessing it's emaciated in the second line? (damnable spell-checkers!)


----------



## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Room2201974 said:


> The Jugment of the King of Navarre was written by Guillaume Machaut right in the middle of the Black Death (1349). From #9 _Si Que Ces Tempestes Cesserent_:
> 
> "People weakened,
> Emancipated and faded
> ...


Domenique Vellard recites this on his recording called _Le jugement du roi de Navarre_, and he follows it with the Kyrie from the Machaut mass -- a different performance of the Kyrie from the one on his recording of the entire mass. It's very movingly done. It's a wonderful recording if you can understand French.


----------



## Joe B (Aug 10, 2017)

Schnittke's "Psalms of Repentance" seems appropriate:


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

Dance of Death





this was actually composed during the Black Death. Especially good if you can speak German (though this is some kind of medieval old German). There is a translation on youtube under the video


----------



## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

It's not morose, but my favorite apocalyptic music is Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin.


----------



## camus (Jun 24, 2010)

Weinberg quartet. Not sure why it didn't render properly


----------



## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Although I am not at all in an apocalyptic mood, this music is worthwile to listen to if you are.

The QPLFDT was composed by Messiaen when he was in a German war prisoner's camp in France. The unusual combination of instruments was the result of the availability of musicians. It was premiered in the actual camp.

Strange detail: this very impressive recent recording was made in the 'Siemensvilla' in Berlin.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

MatthewWeflen mentioned Strauss's Metamorphosen as symbolic of "destruction of a culture." The first music I think of when I hear that phrase is the finale of Mahler's 9th. Otherwise, if we really want to get into the apocalypse spirit, turn to the music that was literally written about doomsday: Schmidt's The Book with the Seven Seals and Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time; along with the famous Dies Iraes. However, I think that the OP's requests are a bit too over the top. Calm down, everyone!


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

I think it is a sacrilege to suggest that music about a true apocalypse and destruction of culture should accompany something that is just a crisis.---but if it wasn't, it is as good a day to reflect on it as any other:


----------



## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

Tarquinio MERULA: *Canzonetta Spirituale sopra alla nanna, "Hor ch'è tempo di dormire"* (pub. 1638)

This gently relentless and uncomfortably numb lullaby/canzonetta consists of a melodic line floating pensively above a hypnotic ostinato bass of only two chords. The text/poem depicts the Virgin Mary lulling/rocking the baby Jesus to sleep while she reveals and laments the suffering, the Passion, that is to come-she has foreknowledge of the events as if she were "remembering" them in a waking dream … it's a _wee_ bit creepy. About a minute and a half from the end, Mary snaps out of it, as it were, and concludes with a sense of sad acceptance and quiet repose, consoling herself with the ultimate knowledge that "with smiling faces we shall meet in paradise." The song is as quietly affecting and mesmerizing as it is disturbing and haunting.

:: Sara Mingardo, Rinaldo Alessandrini/Concerto Italiano [Naïve '04] ~ 8½ minutes


----------



## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

As for my real reaction to the coronavirus, when I first heard about it ca. 2 months ago:


----------



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Joe B said:


> Schnittke's "Psalms of Repentance" seems appropriate:


That looks great. Thank you for alerting me to its existence.


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

here a list of musical settings of the danse macabre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danse_Macabre#Musical_settings


----------



## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Mandryka said:


> Domenique Vellard recites this on his recording called _Le jugement du roi de Navarre_, and he follows it with the Kyrie from the Machaut mass -- a different performance of the Kyrie from the one on his recording of the entire mass. It's very movingly done. It's a wonderful recording if you can understand French.
> 
> View attachment 132049


Essential Machaut! Stunning performance! This is a CD that has haunted me with its beauty.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Doesn't get much clearer than this:


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

---------


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

camus said:


> Weinberg quartet. Not sure why it didn't render properly


To embed a video on THIS vblog you simply copy the URL, click on the film icon (it looks like two film frames), paste that URL into the form, then click OK. It will paste the video (with the proper formatting) automatically into your reply.

It took me a little while to figure it out myself . . . on another vblog that I frequent the procedure was different. On _THAT_ vblog you had to go to the "share" link below the video, choose "embed", copy THAT, then paste it into your reply window.

The difference is simply how the site owner sets the site settings I'll wager.

Funny, though, that when I clicked on your link for the *Weinberg String Quartet*, it was already advanced to around 14 minutes (of the 26 minutes), which means it picked up where I left off, whenEVER _THAT_ may have been. It means I'd gotten roughly 18 minutes into it before I threw in the towel and left.

*START AT 14:30*






EDIT: see *Jacck*'s comment below (#29), and my comment (#31)


----------



## Jacck (Dec 24, 2017)

pianozach said:


> To embed a video on THIS vblog you simply copy the URL, click on the film icon (it looks like two film frames), paste that URL into the form, then click OK. It will paste the video (with the proper formatting) automatically into your reply.


you cannot embed a time-stamped video. Time stamped video you must post like this


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

*Ночь на лысой горе 
literally Saint John's Eve on Bald Mountain
More commonly known as Night on Bald Mountain 
Modest Mussorgsky
1866 or 1867
*
One of the first tone poems by a Russian composer. Sadly, it was never performed in any form during Mussorgsky's lifetime.

In 1886, five years after Mussorgsky's death, *Rimsky-Korsakov* published an arrangement of the work, described as a "fantasy for orchestra."

This version from the 1940 film *Fantasia* is the arrangement by *Leopold Stokowski*, based on Rimsky-Korsakov's version.

And, actually, this version is a medley that transitions seamlessly into Franz Schubert's *Ave Maria*


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Jacck said:


> you cannot embed a time-stamped video. Time stamped video you must post like this


Ah, thank you.

So that means I *hadn't* listened to it before at all. I clicked on the link and it took me to the 'desired' time.

. . . . And I thought I was being helpful. 

Perhaps it might simply be easier to embed the video with a note that one should advance to the desired time.


----------



## Ulfilas (Mar 5, 2020)

The Desert Music - Steve Reich


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

May I also suggest Nikolai Roslavets - Komsomoliya. One of the most stupendous pieces of music I know. It could be experienced as something apocalyptic, if not only for its chaotic nature.


----------



## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

DeepR said:


> May I also suggest Nikolai Roslavets - Komsomoliya. One of the most stupendous pieces of music I know. It could be experienced as something apocalyptic, if not only for its chaotic nature.


Wow! I'd never heard that. Stalin was probably not a fan, but what power and passion! Thanks for bringing that to our attention. And it fits the theme of this thread magnificently.


----------



## Open Book (Aug 14, 2018)

Liszt: Totentanz


----------



## MusicSybarite (Aug 17, 2017)

Clearer than this?


----------



## calvinpv (Apr 20, 2015)

Mark Andre's _... als ... II_ -- for cello, bass clarinet, prepared piano, and live electronics -- is about the Book of Revelations: "And when [German: als] the lamb had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." And it is about as unsettling of a piece as you can get. You get the feeling that some catastrophic event is about to occur, but you have no idea what it is or how to prepare for it. The first time I heard this a couple of years ago, I actually felt a bit of panic rush through me.

The piece is played almost entirely in the lower registers, so I would recommend listening with headphones at a high volume for the full experience.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Durendal said:


> My question to you is: what is the perfect soundtrack to this reflect this stark reality?


Roberto Gerhard's 1964 cantata "The Plague" based upon Albert Camus.


----------



## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Mozart is what is needed in these times. Music that lifts us. The incomparable greatness of his art is felt in times like these, if feel, with all the grace that his music contains. In times of hardship, we need grace... Mozart gives us that. Schubert is the other one I listen to now. I need nothing else than these two now.

Mozart's 27th piano concerto played by Emil Gilels with Karl Böhm conducting. I have been listning to it over and over for days...


----------



## Helgi (Dec 27, 2019)

I'm increasingly torn about all of this. Nothing seems appropriate.


----------



## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Of course, we are not (yet) facing the apocalypse but there is a crisis and people are dying. Someone I know well came very close. I prefer not to think of those who have died then going through the torments of judgment by an unforgiving god or being dragged to hell by demons. So, for me it is more Faure's than Verdi's requiem. And, so far, this crisis has me sitting around (and not earning what I would have been because I am freelance), chilling or getting bored and I don't have special music for that.


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

DeepR said:


> May I also suggest Nikolai Roslavets - Komsomoliya. One of the most stupendous pieces of music I know. It could be experienced as something apocalyptic, if not only for its chaotic nature.


Thanks. I had never heard that and it certainly fits the topic. But by about five minutes in I couldn't stop laughing - out loud, all the way to the end. It just started to sound hilariously excessive.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Karajan turned the thunderstorm section of Beethoven's 6th into something akin to nuclear detonation in his last recording of it.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The Bruckner 8th symphony is nicknamed apocalyptic.


----------



## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Barber's _Adagio for Strings_ on an endless loop until drooling insanity sets in.


----------



## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)




----------



## camus (Jun 24, 2010)




----------



## Durendal (Oct 24, 2018)

Beebert said:


> Mozart is what is needed in these times. Music that lifts us. The incomparable greatness of his art is felt in times like these, if feel, with all the grace that his music contains. In times of hardship, we need grace... Mozart gives us that. Schubert is the other one I listen to now. I need nothing else than these two now.
> 
> Mozart's 27th piano concerto played by Emil Gilels with Karl Böhm conducting. I have been listning to it over and over for days...


As much as I love Mozart, I'm looking for recommendations for relentlessly dark, unsettling music.


----------



## Durendal (Oct 24, 2018)

Totenfeier said:


> Barber's _Adagio for Strings_ on an endless loop until drooling insanity sets in.


This piece occurred to me as well. I find it very depressing to listen to. In fact, anytime the local classical radio station plays it, I switch stations. They play it surprisingly often.


----------



## Helgi (Dec 27, 2019)

Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen with Janet Baker


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

EdwardBast said:


> Thanks. I had never heard that and it certainly fits the topic. But by about five minutes in I couldn't stop laughing - out loud, all the way to the end. It just started to sound hilariously excessive.


It is excessive but not in a way that bothers me, or makes me laugh.


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

larold said:


> The Bruckner 8th symphony is nicknamed apocalyptic.


I've always found this a peculiar nickname, to me it only seems appropriate for certain parts of the symphony but not for the symphony as a whole. Next to that, I think certain parts of the 9th are more "apocalyptic".


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

*Empty Chairs at Empty Tables*
Les Misérables (2012) 
Eddie Redmayne as Marius


----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Jacck said:


> Allan Pettersson, Symphony No. 6


Let's not hasten the end of days!!


----------



## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

__
https://soundcloud.com/kjetil-olav%2Fharpo-di-lasso
Learned some tricks using Cubase today. This is "Prolongati sunt dies mei" (My prolonged time) by Lassus, programmed for 3 harps and then I threw in some real live birds.


----------



## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Barber's Adagio for Strings ... This piece occurred to me as well. I find it very depressing to listen to._

I heard it played on piano at the end of a church service once. It had a different emotional timbre.

Regarding earlier mentions of Allan Petterson, I would agree his music is apocalyptic tinged with pessimism: end of the world with no way out.


----------



## ojoncas (Jan 3, 2019)

Many Bruckner symphonies could apply, but I would suggest its 9th unfinished one!


----------



## cwarchc (Apr 28, 2012)




----------



## Sad Al (Feb 27, 2020)

Beebert said:


> Mozart is what is needed in these times. Music that lifts us. The incomparable greatness of his art is felt in times like these, if feel, with all the grace that his music contains. In times of hardship, we need grace... Mozart gives us that. Schubert is the other one I listen to now. I need nothing else than these two now.
> 
> Mozart's 27th piano concerto played by Emil Gilels with Karl Böhm conducting. I have been listning to it over and over for days...


All Mozart is awful. The giggler hadn't a clue what music is all about. He died too old, as Gould put it


----------



## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Rogerx said:


> Mahler "Das Lied von der Erde" Christa Ludwig/Waldemar Kmentt/Carlos Kleiber


Geez, I thought that Kleiber detested Mahler


----------



## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Triplets said:


> Geez, I thought that Kleiber detested Mahler


So did I, but wonders / exceptions do exist.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

cwarchc said:


>


Yes, "Hello, Threnody. We've been expecting you to visit this thread."

I find it ironic (amusing?) that Penderecki did NOT compose it for the victims of Hiroshima. It was more a case of a work in search of a "hook".

He originally called it *8'37"*. The dedication didn't appear until after it had been performed.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Sad Al said:


> All Mozart is awful. The giggler hadn't a clue what music is all about. He died too old, as Gould put it


Ok, I'll bite. Obviously I do not need to write anything but to say that if Haydn said Mozart "the giggler" was beyond reproach and all these testimonies on record in defense of Mozart, you appear the be the lone ranger. As in all by yourself. As in all alone in your opinion. As in lost in a hopeless argument. And if one should step forward presenting some strange comment about some giggler who could not write a tune, that would make two then. But conspiracy theorists are always around so I have learned to gauge the landscape from those classical music fanatics who appear to think CM is a religion to convert others to from those who make strange comments that Mozart is not a god.


----------



## Sad Al (Feb 27, 2020)

Bigbang said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Obviously I do not need to write anything but to say that if Haydn said Mozart "the giggler" was beyond reproach and all these testimonies on record in defense of Mozart, you appear the be the lone ranger. As in all by yourself. As in all alone in your opinion. As in lost in a hopeless argument. And if one should step forward presenting some strange comment about some giggler who could not write a tune, that would make two then. But conspiracy theorists are always around so I have learned to gauge the landscape from those classical music fanatics who appear to think CM is a religion to convert others to from those who make strange comments that Mozart is not a god.


Yep, I'm the lone ranger, and you are my Tonto. Bach is my love (years ago I was interested in puss* too, and now I'm just drinking). Seriously, I can't understand the giggler and his opportunistic classical muzak. E.g. none of his piano concertos is interesting. Gould disliked all of them.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Bigbang said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Obviously I do not need to write anything but to say that if Haydn said Mozart "the giggler" was beyond reproach and all these testimonies on record in defense of Mozart, you appear the be the lone ranger. As in all by yourself. As in all alone in your opinion. As in lost in a hopeless argument. And if one should step forward presenting some strange comment about some giggler who could not write a tune, that would make two then. But conspiracy theorists are always around so I have learned to gauge the landscape from those classical music fanatics who appear to think CM is a religion to convert others to from those who make strange comments that Mozart is not a god.





Sad Al said:


> Yep, I'm the lone ranger, and you are my Tonto. Bach is my love (years ago I was interested in puss* too, and now I'm just drinking). Seriously, I can't understand the giggler and his opportunistic classical muzak. E.g. none of his piano concertos is interesting. Gould disliked all of them.


:clap:

*I love them both for different reasons.
*


----------



## Durendal (Oct 24, 2018)

Sad Al said:


> Yep, I'm the lone ranger, and you are my Tonto. Bach is my love (years ago I was interested in puss* too, and now I'm just drinking). Seriously, I can't understand the giggler and his opportunistic classical muzak. E.g. none of his piano concertos is interesting. Gould disliked all of them.


And which musical masterpieces did Gould contribute to the repertoire?


----------



## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Faure - Pavane

Sinister, brooding music that scares the hell out of me ....


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Sad Al said:


> Yep, I'm the lone ranger, and you are my Tonto. Bach is my love (years ago I was interested in puss* too, and now I'm just drinking). Seriously, I can't understand the giggler and his opportunistic classical muzak. E.g. none of his piano concertos is interesting. Gould disliked all of them.


You mention Gould as if to support your view. Gould had an eclectic and somewhat narrow repertoire at the same time. He had little interest in most of the Romantic period and, yes, little interest in most of Mozart which doesn't prove anything about Mozart. GG had a way of saying things just to provoke and startle people much as you do, for some reason. For all his complaints about Mozart, he recorded all of his sonatas.


----------



## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Durendal said:


> This piece occurred to me as well. I find it very depressing to listen to. In fact, anytime the local classical radio station plays it, I switch stations. They play it surprisingly often.


I'm sorry to read that you find Barber's Adagio for Strings depressing. For me, it is cathartic but in a positive way. Have a ramble round YouTube for a performance of his Op.11 String Quartet, of which the Adagio was the slow movement. Hearing the work thinned down to four instruments is fascinating.


----------



## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Speaking of apocalypse, how about the opening movement of RVW's 4th Symphony, preferably that mad recording with the composer conducting?


----------



## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

DaveM said:


> You mention Gould as if to support your view. Gould had an eclectic and somewhat narrow repertoire at the same time. He had little interest in most of the Romantic period and, yes, little interest in most of Mozart which doesn't prove anything about Mozart. GG had a way of saying things just to provoke and startle people much as you do, for some reason. For all his complaints about Mozart, he recorded all of his sonatas.


I love how most people quoting Gould don't even properly understand his musical preferences and his reasons for them. The issue Gould had with Mozart was the "operatic gestures", (not the "giggler" bullcrap Sad Al is talking about). And probably for a similar reason Gould (unjustly) dismissed Beethoven's orchestral masterpieces, such as violin concerto and the 5th piano concerto and symphony as "pomposity and banality". (_"Beethoven's reputation is based entirely on gossip. The middle Beethoven represents a supreme example of a composer on an ego trip."_) But he liked the Grosse Fuge. Gould also said that Bartok and Stravinsky are the most overrated modern composers. You're also right in saying Gould disliked most of the Romantic era, Schubert, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, etc, dismissing their music as "hedonism". Gould even said that Orlando Gibbons represented the end of an era best, completely ignoring Bach in the process. (_"Orlando Gibbons is my favorite composer-always has been. I can't think of anybody who represents the end of an era better than Orlando Gibbons does."_) He disliked Bach's chromatic fantasie and fugue and the Italian concerto, saying that they're Bach for people who don't like Bach. And guess what- Gould said he liked Mozart's fugues, including K546, praising Mozart's skills in writing them. (My impression on Gould's opinions on music is that they were somewhat random with little consistency.)






I'm sometimes criticized on this forum for quoting David C F Wright, but at least I'm in somewhat of a general agreement with his views on classical music; I understand his negative views (and understand the reasons for his accusations) on Schubert, Chopin, Grieg, Debussy, Scriabin (but I still think they're great composers on their own right), and his positive views on JC Bach, Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Wagner. (He has a bit of unpopular opinion on minor topics such as Salieri/Clementi vs Mozart, but that's ok to me.) I also agree with his view that Piazolla isn't really classical music.
I mean if people should quote someone as an authority on a subject, ( For example, Tchaikovsky's opinion that Bach's "cantatas and major vocal works were real classical bores", or Berlioz's comment that "God is God and Bach is Bach", or Arnold Bax's notorious one that _"'All Bach's last movements are like the running of a sewing machine."_ -all of which I think are misguided/prejudiced opinions ) they should at least give some time and effort in trying to understand the reasons why he said the things he did.


----------



## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

... and now we return to our regularly scheduled apocalypse. 

This piece here is apropo: Jacques Casterede's "3 Visions De L'apocalypse" for 9 brass & organ.


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Schubert is a handy fellow to keep nearby in a plague. When you're in quarantine, his inability to edit neatly and finish on time is a blessing. Been listening a lot to his last two symphs, the great C major and the Unfinished. During this time, anything muscular and defiant is a definition of hopelessness to me. I put on Beethoven's Egmont Overture and all I saw were open-mouthed louts congregating in mobs, spilling germs on each other and singing dunce tunes, like Imagine,

We need what the cliche-munchers call ethereal music, and Franz has it in buckets. Add to this the hovering knowledge of his own death aged 31, and we automatically feel that tragedy is never far from a Schubert binge. Mozart too. Music at these times shouldn't be relentlessly dark and Romantic, it should aim higher, and fill our souls with something of the divine and immeasurable. Bach, gets the occasional spin from me nowadays, whereas he isn't usually on my playlists.

Not the harpsichord music, obviously. I'm grinding my teeth enough in my sleep, as it is...


----------



## TMHeimer (Dec 19, 2019)

Agree that some contemporary music might fit the bill. I'll say Wagner. I find it goes on & on--not that I really dislike Wagner, but the coronavirus does also go on & on it seems. I only got one "C" as an undergrad. music major and that was in the Wagner class. Man The Ring just keeps on goin'.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

Sad Al said:


> Yep, I'm the lone ranger, and you are my Tonto. Bach is my love (years ago I was interested in puss* too, and now I'm just drinking). Seriously, I can't understand the giggler and his opportunistic classical muzak. E.g. none of his piano concertos is interesting. Gould disliked all of them.


Well, here is the thing. Sometimes we have to admit we have defects, and in this case with various musical forms. I do not readily get many works that TC posters love and go on and on about. But I do not feel regret as how can I? I appreciate what I do like and enjoy listening to. The main thing is do not take out your inability to get Mozart and direct all that rage outward in disgust. Reminds me of Salieri in Amadeus who allowed "hate" to consume him and the jealousy drove him to an insane asylum. Franky just admit your deficiencies in understanding Mozart and move on.

I do not like horror movies. I'm sure that I am not missing anything so same goes for all the classical music I do not get. You like Bach and whatever else. You ain't missing anything. Please let go of your rage that you cannot get Mozart, plenty of people (like them young folks too you are too hip for Mozart).

OK people, do not take my post literally....


----------



## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

> dunce tunes, like Imagine


Totally agree about Schubert! Not to derail the thread, but I seriously do not get why everyone thinks singing "Imagine" is inspirational/moving during times like these. I can recognize the artistry of many popular songs (even if I personally do not enjoy them), but that one almost drives me to tears of annoyance. The same little piano figure with that cheeky dissonance repeated over and over and over and over to lyrics about a maudlin vision of utopia. I mean, there are so many other inspirational songs out there. Another one that people seem to find moving but which strikes me the same way is "Hallelujah."


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Totally agree about Schubert! Not to derail the thread, but I seriously do not get why everyone thinks singing "Imagine" is inspirational/moving during times like these. I can recognize the artistry of many popular songs (even if I personally do not enjoy them), but that one almost drives me to tears of annoyance. The same little piano figure with that cheeky dissonance repeated over and over and over and over to lyrics about a maudlin vision of utopia. I mean, there are so many other inspirational songs out there. Another one that people seem to find moving but which strikes me the same way is "Hallelujah."


Imagine is a profound song for people who think like children think.

Schubert is really doing it for me these days. Those long symphonies kind of go hand in hand with long bouts of isolation, and as I say, even his inability to get to the point is perfect, nobody wants somebody to hurry to the point when their voice is all you hear...


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Hmmm . . .

JL's *Imagine* vs. Schubert's *Symphony No. 5 (or 3, or 9)
*

Kind of like comparing like comparing a great dessert to a great 7-course meal.
Kind of like comparing like comparing a great football play to a team's entire season.
Kind of like comparing like comparing a great song to a great album.


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

pianozach said:


> Hmmm . . .
> 
> JL's *Imagine* vs. Schubert's *Symphony No. 5 (or 3, or 9)
> *
> ...


Or comparing a shallow sentimentalist to one of the most profound artists ever...


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Kieran said:


> Or comparing a shallow sentimentalist to one of the most profound artists ever...


That's just your brain talkin'.

Actually *I agree* with your assessment that JL was _"a shallow sentimentalist"_. But he was more than that . . . he was also an extremely self-loathing, lazy, imperfect man, if you want to criticize.

But he was *more* than those flaws.

He was a creative genius, great with a lyrical or musical hook, great with words and wordplay, able to create strong visual images and strong feelings with an economy of words.

It's an entirely different art form to write a song that touches millions and lasts more than a season than to write a symphony (although Schubert was also a songwriter!). John Lennon has written songs that will endure, and that includes _*Imagine*_.

I'll bet you could win the $100,000 on the last round of *Ellen's Game of Games* if the theme were to name 10 John Lennon songs off the top of your head in 30 seconds or less.

JL was an "idea" man. With the *Beatles* he worked much harder on songs, I think, due to his brotherly rivalry with Paul McCartney, and the guidance of producer George Martin.

As a solo artist Lennon was sloppy, lazy, and self indulgent, yet still managed to write and record songs that resonated deeply with many, many people.

*Imagine* wasn't written as an intellectual challenge to your logic lobe. It most certainly was sentimental and childlike (though not 'childish'), and written to touch your heart and soul. The tune and chords _ARE_ simple, as is the arrangement. Simplicity is an effective tool in writing music, and is often _more_ effective than complexity.

The problem here is the concept of comparing a single Lennon song to the collective works of Schubert. They shouldn't be compared. They are different art forms.

What's better - Van Gogh's Starry Night, or Debussey's Sur la Mer?


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Kieran said:


> Or comparing a shallow sentimentalist to one of the most profound artists ever...


Ask hammeredklavier about the profundity of Schubert.

I'll just watch this time.


----------



## Duncan (Feb 8, 2019)

Woodduck said:


> Ask hammeredklavier about the profundity of Schubert.
> 
> I'll just watch this time.


:lol: -------------------------------


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

pianozach said:


> That's just your brain talkin'.
> 
> Actually *I agree* with your assessment that JL was _"a shallow sentimentalist"_. But he was more than that . . . he was also an extremely self-loathing, lazy, imperfect man, if you want to criticize.
> 
> ...


The big trouble with "that song" isn't only it's cynical sentimentality and his own hypocritical opportunism, it's that every daft flag waving child wheels it out as the ultimate they know of in Idealism as soon as something horrific happens. The song itself I steer clear with great ease during my average lolling about day, but that it's taken on as an anthem by loud people eager to publicly display their holiness, well, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh, as they say. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's a whole different species to what Schubert does...


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Woodduck said:


> Ask hammeredklavier about the profundity of Schubert.
> 
> I'll just watch this time.


One of my other favourite apocalypse pastimes, to haggle over what is or isn't profound, and according to who or whom, and why it matters, and does it actually matter at all.

Seats are still available and popcorn is the same price it was during the last apocalypse a few months ago, WW3 with Iran...


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Kieran said:


> The big trouble with "that song" isn't only it's cynical sentimentality and his own hypocritical opportunism, it's that every daft flag waving child wheels it out as the ultimate they know of in Idealism as soon as something horrific happens. The song itself I steer clear with great ease during my average lolling about day, but that it's taken on as an anthem by loud people eager to publicly display their holiness, well, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh, as they say. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it's a whole different species to what Schubert does...


Yeah, but you can't blame the song _*Imagine*_ for *that*.

I cannot explain why, on the 4th of July, they always drag out the *1812 Overture* and Springsteen's *Born in the USA*. But they do.

Yes always drags out *Roundabout* for the encore, making it the most played song in their repertoire.

And 17 years after its initial release Lee Greenwood's _*God Bless the USA*_ became the anthem of *9/11*. Doubly ironic since the original music video in 1984 starred Greenwood as a farmer who loses the family farm. Ronald Reagan successfully used it as the soundtrack for his Presidential campaign in 1984. [note the Twin Towers in the background at 0:20]





.

So, while Lennon's *Imagine* is sentimental, it's not on the long list of "*cynical John Lennon songs*".

Yeah, it gets trotted out and used as an anthem ad nauseum, but again, it's not the song's fault.

Fortunately for Schubert, few of his 600 songs have been subject to "anthemization", although *Ave Maria* for every other funeral with 'entertainment', whether it's grandma or some head of state, and every other pop concert.

*Mirusia* with André Rieu






And Schubert doesn't get off that easily; you can hear his music misappropriated in the films *Minority Report, The Sixth Sense, Ex Machina, The Avengers*, and all over last year's *Little Women* (They used "*Der Erlkönig*" in the 1933 release). His *Trout Quintet* was in Rocket Man AND Spiderman 2, and the producers of the TV series Gotham seem to be big fans. In fact, the Trout has been used in over 30 films and TV shows, while Ave Maria has been in well over a hundred.

I mean, *Schubert* has over 800 film and TV credits.

So is *Ave Maria* overly sentimental, with it's "big trouble" being that it's "wheeled out" constantly? No, of course not. Being overplayed doesn't diminish it's impact despite the overused subject matter overtly romanticized harmonic structure.


----------



## Bigbang (Jun 2, 2019)

I think some posters have too much time on their hands. I envy all the time spent doing detail analysis of this and that symphony, works by composers that one could simply sum up in a few mere words. Anyway, Imagine was released in 1971 before y'all was even born I am sure, perhaps your parents as well. Try not to embarrass yourself on national TV with this kind of talk. JL was speaking to a different crowd here and I noticed that it is free of the religious tone so perhaps it might grate on the minds of those more inclined to the religiosity of songs. I like the song and it needs no comparison to any other work as it stands on its own. 

I wish I could make money being lazy but I do not concern myself with what other people think. So if JL was successful any opinions of those who did not even know him are completely worthless.


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Yeah, I was there.

I was also remember walking home from school the day JFK was assassinated.

Hey, now that were living through a pandemic a lot of us have a lot of time on our hands.

And, as a lifelong Beatles fanatic, I actually do know a great deal about the history of the Beatles.

Imagine's a great song. Lennon wrote quite a few very memorable songs. He wrote some real dogs during his solo career, but, Hey!, so what. Writing great songs isn't necessarily a walk in the park.

Without Googling, I could probably give you Lennon's discography, both singles and albums. Same with the others (well, maybe not Ringo - I kinda wrote him off completely after Bad Boy - come to think of it, he wrote himself off for a while as well . . . hell, he struggled to even find a distributor for his album Old Wave)

Anyway, John's productivity actually seems greater than it actually was . . . his albums were short, many of his singles had a Yoko B-side. He shared entire albums with Yoko (. . . a John song, a Yoko song, etc.).

In spite of being a superfan, I'm also a pragmatist and a realist . . . John, for all the great material he produced, was still an underachiever. We should all aspire to that level of underachievement.

For my money, John is overrated, and Paul and George were underrated. For an extended amount of time many of George's albums were out-of-print.

It's funny about Imagine though . . . . Kieran IS right about the song being trotted out as some sort of religious salve in disasters . . . even though it could just as easily be used as an anthem for atheists, indeed, John Lennon may have had the first Top Ten atheist song:

_"Imagine there's no Heaven, 
it's easy if you try, 
no Hell below us, 
above us only sky . . . "_


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Pianozach,

We may agree or disagree on the merits of the song, but I wholeheartedly concur that it isn’t the songs fault that the needy masses have appropriated it for their own bad purposes. As I said, this is my main complaint about the song, is that the unthinking have confused it for being an idealistic manifesto and in ugly scenes repeated around the world, after every horrible tragedy, they haul their egos to the public square and moan out the song.

My preference for Schubert at this time isn’t to set him at competition with Lennon (who I agree had talent but was overrated, it seems that even in the Beatles Paul did more of the heavy lifting - but I do like some Lennon songs) but to say that for me at this time, isolated in the countryside and witnessing the negative effects of social distancing, the great fear and social degradation that’s occurring, the great fear we see in people who used to greet each other, the terrible economic impact, and the not knowing what comes in the near future, that the music I need right now isn’t idealistic, and nor is it defiant Romantic windbaggery, I don’t want anything “dark” that’s supposed to reflect the movement of a plague through a helpless population, but something that helps my spirit soar in anticipation of something hopeful, something of the human soul that finds solace in impermanence, while also touching on the transcendent. I know this sounds equally shallow and idealistic, it maybe more of a psychological crutch than anything, but it’s my poison for the moment. I much prefer music that says, “Imagine there is a heaven!”

When I listen to pop or rock music, it’s generally Dylan, but Bill Callahan’s Sometimes I Wish We Were An Eagle is getting plenty spins too...


----------



## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

Kieran said:


> Pianozach,
> 
> We may agree or disagree on the merits of the song, but I wholeheartedly concur that it isn't the songs fault that the needy masses have appropriated it for their own bad purposes. As I said, this is my main complaint about the song, is that the unthinking have confused it for being an idealistic manifesto and in ugly scenes repeated around the world, after every horrible tragedy, they haul their egos to the public square and moan out the song.
> 
> ...


Yeah, we're pretty much on the same page, I think.

Except for the Dylan . . . my brain generally prefers to not be bothered by intellectual lyrics, especially those of Dylan, with major exceptions of course. There's some Dylan I love . . . go figure, his first album's my favorite - there's positively at least 5 songs on that raw album that I love.

But in these pandemic pandemonium times, long form complex music is a blessing to have access to.

Here's 8 of the most uplifting classical pieces to brighten your day

Mozart - Sonata No. 17 in C.
The Marriage of Figaro - Mozart.
Ruslan and Ludmilla (Overture) - Glinka.
*** Down - Copland.
'Largo al factotum' (from The Barber of Seville) - Rossini.
Jupiter the bringer of jollity (The Planets) - Holst.
Holberg Suite (Rigaudon) - Grieg


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

pianozach said:


> Yeah, we're pretty much on the same page, I think.
> 
> Except for the Dylan . . . my brain generally prefers to not be bothered by intellectual lyrics, especially those of Dylan, with major exceptions of course. There's some Dylan I love . . . go figure, his first album's my favorite - there's positively at least 5 songs on that raw album that I love.
> 
> ...


Oh you've got a whole world of Bob ahead of you...but I do accept, he's not to everybody's taste. I've been into Bob longer than I even listened to Mozart, so we're talking..."a while" here, but Bob isn't great for the apocalypse for me. Unless it's a typically ravaged love song that reflects some level of loneliness or isolation.

It isn't even that I'm looking for "uplifting" music to brighten the day, though coincidentally, already today I listened to some Figaro, and last night piano sonata #17. It's that otherliness of the music, and that's not even a word. Ave Maria, which was mentioned earlier, would do it for me, but if it could be dismembered from its commercial abuses. From Mozart, The Magic Flute, or the last piano concerto's slow set, the clarinet concerto. Mozart, Schubert have this off-world thing, that incites cliches and allegations of "angelic" music, "divine music", ethereal, etc. Music that transforms, not by necessarily brightening things, but by inspiring a feeling that just maybe there is a heaven, just maybe there is a meaning that we can't grasp here, but we hold out for the promise of it some fine day. Not that I'm looking for God through music, not that at all, but that the music inspires a sense of the transcendent, where maybe there'll be some meaning to all the weirdness we're living through right now...


----------



## Beebert (Jan 3, 2019)

Kieran said:


> Schubert is a handy fellow to keep nearby in a plague. When you're in quarantine, his inability to edit neatly and finish on time is a blessing. Been listening a lot to his last two symphs, the great C major and the Unfinished. During this time, anything muscular and defiant is a definition of hopelessness to me. I put on Beethoven's Egmont Overture and all I saw were open-mouthed louts congregating in mobs, spilling germs on each other and singing dunce tunes, like Imagine,
> 
> We need what the cliche-munchers call ethereal music, and Franz has it in buckets. Add to this the hovering knowledge of his own death aged 31, and we automatically feel that tragedy is never far from a Schubert binge. Mozart too. Music at these times shouldn't be relentlessly dark and Romantic, it should aim higher, and fill our souls with something of the divine and immeasurable. Bach, gets the occasional spin from me nowadays, whereas he isn't usually on my playlists.
> 
> Not the harpsichord music, obviously. I'm grinding my teeth enough in my sleep, as it is...


I couldn't agree more


----------



## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

It's interesting to see what sorts of music people want to hear in difficult times. I feel sure that it will be an extremely individual matter. A friend of mine who lost his lover and a number of friends during the AIDS crisis said that he appreciated the "balance" of Mozart and the transcendent quality of Vaughan Williams' _Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis._ I don't think anything would motivate me to listen to Mozart except my normal and rather infrequent desire to listen to Mozart, but it's hard to say what music I'd want to hear in a deep personal crisis. Quite possibly no music at all.

For me the pandemic we're all dealing with is not thus far a personal crisis; no one I know is dying, I'm as well as usual and taking proper precautions, and as I'm a single retired person living alone in a small town my way of life hasn't had to change radically. Circumstances have not altered my musical interests at all. I've always thought that life on earth is an uncertain business, and have come to believe that humanity isn't collectively intelligent or moral enough to avoid destroying himself and the planet. So this latest episode, though saddening and, as I look at our pathetic so-called leaders, infuriating, seems to me less a shocking disaster (many people have been expecting it) than a reminder of our basic existential condition and a glimpse of more, and possibly worse, to come. Neither John Lennon nor Wolfie Mozart feels to me like any sort of antidote or lifeline.

The Metropolitan Opera, having closed its season, is now streaming a video a day of Met performances over its web site. As far as I'm concerned, there couldn't be a nicer way to spend an apocalypse, whether it's with Mozart, Wagner or Puccini. For anyone who'd like to attend:

https://www.metopera.org/


----------



## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

To be fair I think most people including myself responded to the topic title "Music for the apocalypse".

If I was going through a personal crisis, corona related or not, I'd stay away from dark, unsettling and chaotic music. 
Instead I'd play calm, comforting classical music, or my favorite ambient/drone music which requires little effort to listen to, yet brings a special, soothing atmosphere or takes me to a far away place.


----------



## gregorx (Jan 25, 2020)

pianozach said:


> The problem here is the concept of comparing a single Lennon song to the collective works of Schubert. They shouldn't be compared. They are different art forms.


Exactly and Lennon should be forgiven one bad song. I remember the guy who wrote "Sexy Sadie," "I'm So Tired," and "Happiness is a Warm Gun."


----------



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

gregorx said:


> Exactly and Lennon should be forgiven one bad song. I remember the guy who wrote "Sexy Sadie," "I'm So Tired," and "Happiness is a Warm Gun."


Not to mention he was a master storyteller. The opening:

NO FLIES ON FRANK by John Lennon

There were no flies on Frank that morning - after all why not? He was a responsible citizen with a wife and child, wasn't he? It was a typical Frank morning and with agility that defies description he leapt into the barthroom onto the scales. To his great harold he discovered he was twelve inches more tall heavy! He couldn't believe it and his blood raised to his head causing a mighty red colouring.

"I carn't not believe this incredible fact of truth about my very body which has not gained fat since mother begat me at childburn. Yea, though I wart through the valet of thy shadowy hut I will feed no norman. What grate qualmsy hath taken me thus into such a fatty hardbuckle."
-----------------------------------
After that, some ripping adventures!


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> if we really want to get into the apocalypse spirit, turn to the music that was literally written about doomsday: Schmidt's The Book with the Seven Seals


Yes! This part in particular has come to my mind recently:






Death riding the Pale Horse

OK, I'm getting morbid. Sorry.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

pianozach said:


> *Ночь на лысой горе
> literally Saint John's Eve on Bald Mountain
> More commonly known as Night on Bald Mountain
> Modest Mussorgsky
> ...


Thank you! I saw this one before and noticed that it was different from the version actually used in the film but wasn't sure what it was. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

cwarchc said:


>


Oh my! This is one of the most morbid pieces I know. Don't overdo it!


----------



## adriesba (Dec 30, 2019)

Totenfeier said:


> Barber's _Adagio for Strings_ on an endless loop until drooling insanity sets in.


Boy is that piece emotional... Only once in a day for me!


----------



## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)




----------



## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Have a listen to Murder Most Foul by Mr. Dylan. Wonderful stuff that captures the zeitgeist perfectly. Also ‘cross the green mountain.


----------



## Kieran (Aug 24, 2010)

Barbebleu said:


> Have a listen to Murder Most Foul by Mr. Dylan. Wonderful stuff that captures the zeitgeist perfectly. Also 'cross the green mountain.


It's stunning, isn't it? Perfect for what we're going through. Been listening to it all day...


----------



## Sad Al (Feb 27, 2020)

I don't believe in Zimmerman.

According to Philip K. Dick, John Dowland was the first abstract composer. If that is true, and if reality is indeed abstract, perhaps his music is for the apocalypse.


----------



## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

I've found myself listening to a lot of Messiaen during this crisis - especially the bird song stuff which I love dearly. Give me a good performance of _Oiseaux exotiques_ and I'll be fine! To be honest, the virus hasn't really affected me that much personally, apart from the lockdown and distant working/studying that affects everyone. But I do worry greatly for my mother who is a risk group member in many ways. I guess all we can do is hope for the best!


----------



## Fredrikalansson (Jan 29, 2019)

Back to original topic...surprised no one has mentioned Gorecki's 3rd symphony "Sorrowful Songs". Not apocalyptic, but matches the mood of the times.


----------



## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)




----------

