# Schubert song cycle recommendations please



## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

Hi i am new to Schubert's song cycles. I am currently listening to Die Schone Mullerin the Fritz Wunderlich
Recordings. Would appreciate suggestions for recordings of other Schubert song cycles/lieder.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

That's a great one.

One that I got recently, and like, is Peter Schreier singing the Schwanengesang w/ András Schiff. 

Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau recorded all of them multiple times, if you like his voice it might be worth checking that out.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

flamencosketches said:


> That's a great one.
> 
> One that I got recently, and like, is Peter Schreier singing the Schwanengesang w/ András Schiff.
> 
> Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau recorded all of them multiple times, if you like his voice it might be worth checking that out.


Agreed, I second Fischer-Dieskau. Hans Hotter also recorded Schubert's lieder, certainly Die Winterreise, Schwanengesang and multiple independent smaller lieder works. Hotter's and F-D's voices are very different though - as a bass-baritone Hotter had a heavier and somewhat darker voice so it probably comes down to preference  . Fleming has also recorded Schubert's lieder - I think I remember that someone in this forum recommended her recording with Eschenbach but I haven't listened to it myself so I cannot give my opinion.


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

annaw said:


> Agreed, I second Fischer-Dieskau. Hans Hotter also recorded Schubert's lieder, certainly Die Winterreise, Schwanengesang and multiple independent smaller lieder works. Hotter's and F-D's voices are very different though - as a bass-baritone Hotter had a heavier and somewhat darker voice so it probably comes down to preference  . Fleming has also recorded Schubert's lieder - I think I remember that someone in this forum recommended her recording with Eschenbach but I haven't listened to it myself so I cannot give my opinion.


Oh yes, I've heard some of the Fleming/Eschenbach Schubert Lieder. Definitely a worthy recommendation, again with the caveat, if you like her voice.


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## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

Thank you both for your suggestions. Will look forward to seeking them out.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

annaw said:


> Agreed, I second Fischer-Dieskau. Hans Hotter also recorded Schubert's lieder, certainly Die Winterreise, Schwanengesang and multiple independent smaller lieder works. Hotter's and F-D's voices are very different though - as a bass-baritone Hotter had a heavier and somewhat darker voice so it probably comes down to preference  . Fleming has also recorded Schubert's lieder - I think I remember that someone in this forum recommended her recording with Eschenbach but I haven't listened to it myself so I cannot give my opinion.


If you like baritone voice, let me recommend beside Fischer-Dieskau the younger singer who sounds like him but, IMO, even better: Olaf Bär. He Has a good recording on EMI with accompanist Geoffrey Parsons performing Goethe-Lieder and Lieder nach verschiedenen Dichtern. He has also recorded die schöne Müllerin with Parsons.

Try this:


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

Schreier has recorded all three song cycles with Schiff and they are good recommendations. However, the really inspired Wintereisse is the live version with Richter, coughs and all. Mesmeric.


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## Hermastersvoice (Oct 15, 2018)

For a completely unaffected, young-man-in-love approach to Schöne Müllerin, try Aksel Schiøtz with Gerald Moore. It is utterly believable, quite far removed from traditional approach to art song. If you want to look straight into the abyss with Winterreise, try Hans Hotter with Michael Raucheisen. It’s devastating and, again, quite far removed from anything recorded since.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Dulova Harps On said:


> Hi i am new to Schubert's song cycles. I am currently listening to Die Schone Mullerin the Fritz Wunderlich
> Recordings. Would appreciate suggestions for recordings of other Schubert song cycles/lieder.


If you particularly like Wunderlich, you may be happier with conventionally beautiful voices, rather than people like Schreier, Bostridge, Fischer-Dieskau, or even Hotter, who are not to everyone's taste. You also may prefer modern sonics.

For Winterreise, I'd suggest Peter Mattei's new recording, or older ones by Hakan Hagegard and Werner Güra.

For Schwanengesang, Bryn Terfel or Güra.

Most of these should be available on Spotify if you want to hear them first.


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## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

Thanks again for everyone's thoughtful suggestions. Much appreciated!


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

BTW, I don't know where you're located, but if it's the UK, you might try to pull up BBC's Record Review podcast that reviewed quite a few recordings of Schwanengesang.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Hermastersvoice said:


> For a completely unaffected, young-man-in-love approach to Schöne Müllerin, try Aksel Schiøtz with Gerald Moore. It is utterly believable, quite far removed from traditional approach to art song. If you want to look straight into the abyss with Winterreise, try Hans Hotter with Michael Raucheisen. It's devastating and, again, quite far removed from anything recorded since.


I agree, Schiotz and Moore are magical here. The recording is mono from 1945 but decent sound.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

If you like a tenor voice Ian Bostridge's first *Winterreise* (not the more recent one) speaks well to the music. I also like Bostridge in some of the famous songs not associated with cycles such as Ganymed and An Schwager Kronos.

If you are new to Schubert song you may wish to wait a while before tackling Winterreise. It translates to "a wniter's journey" but is a cycle about a man slowly going insane. Schubert wrote it at the end of his short life when he was dying of syphilis. He never heard it performed. It's text is complicated and is sometimes symbolic and cannot be accepted literally.

I also enjoy Wolfgang Holzmair's *Schwanengesang*. Holzmair is a lyric baritone with a three octave range and the song cycle is looseleaf; Schubert didn't intend it as a cycle. The cycle content is generally friendly and far less intense than Winterreise.


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## Shosty (Mar 16, 2020)

If you're interested in a mezzo-soprano's take on Winterreise you could try Brigitte Fassbaender/Aribert Reimann on EMI. 
I think Janet Baker and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf have recorded Schubert's lieder as well, though I'm not sure whether they've sung Winterreise and Schwanengesang in their entirety. 

Back to baritones, Matthias Goerne has two superb recordings of Winterreise, one with Graham Johnson, and one with Alfred Brendel.


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## Guest002 (Feb 19, 2020)

Benjamin Britten's and Peter Pears' _Wintereise _i_s_ wonderful. As are much of the rest of their Schubert recitals.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

dizwell said:


> Benjamin Britten's and Peter Pears' _Wintereise _i_s_ wonderful. As are much of the rest of their Schubert recitals.


You'll get no argument from me on this - the Pears/Britten version has always been one of my favorites. But I am always hesitant to recommend it blindly, because Pears' voice is extremely idiosyncratic, and one which many people find unbearable.

But Britten's contribution is superb, and illustrates how important the pianist's role is in this cycle. It's no accident that after Gerald Moore retired, Fischer-Dieskau made most of his recordings with pianists with significant careers as soloists - Brendel, Barenboim, Perahia, Eschenbach.

The other advantage of the Pears version is that he's a tenor, and I think that the cycle sounds best with a tenor or high baritone that can either sing in the original keys or with minimal downward transposition. Much as I admire singers like Hotter, van Dam, Matthew Rose, and Groissböick, their versions of the cycle require significant transposition which reduces the clarity of the piano part and also makes an already pretty dark cycle excessively depressing.


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## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

seitzpf said:


> I agree, Schiotz and Moore are magical here. The recording is mono from 1945 but decent sound.


After listening to most of the recommendations over the last few days i can report back that the Shiotz and Moore recording is now my favorite Die Shonne Mullerin. It's certainly wonderful and i keep returning to it. Thank you Hermastersvoice for suggesting it! And thank you so much for everyone's suggestions. I shall report back with my thoughts on Winterreise and Schwanengesang.


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## aussiebushman (Apr 21, 2018)

Try to find the 1933 recording of Winterreise sung by Gerhard Husch with Hanns Udo Müller. It is superb. Avoid the recording he made many years later when he was way past his prime


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I'll second both the Pears/Britten and the Schreier/Richter recordings of Wintereise. Another one of interest is by Christoph Prégardien with Andreas Staier. 

The Pears/Britten Schoene Muellerin is also good. But there are a lot of recommendable Schubert lieder discs and sets - the music an endless source for great singers to demonstrate their special talents. It almost seems a shame to single any out.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

If you are looking for CD's there is a nice issue on Decca Eloquence, with the three Schubert cycles by tenor Peter Schreier and Andras Schiff. As mentioned before, the Schreier/Richter Winterreise recording is a must have. And the recordings of bariton Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau with Alfred Brendel are my favourite DFD recordings, as Brendel excels on the piano and DFD has a wise old voice, which fits in with the life changing subjects of the lyrics.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Lots of recommendation are made, however if you want to extent your horizon try this one:



0028948021574 ( product number)


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

NLAdriaan said:


> ......... And the recordings of bariton Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau with Alfred Brendel are my favourite DFD recordings, as Brendel excels on the piano and DFD has a wise old voice, which fits in with the life changing subjects of the lyrics.


DFD was a great artist but has never been a favourite in Schubert for me - he can seem too mannered - but his early recordings with pianist Klaus Billing show a very different side to his art and one I am more attuned with. He sounds very young indeed and his characterisation is much more subtle.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

Christian Gerhaher and Gerold Huber are an amazing duo, totally recommended - not only in Schubert, but also (and maybe even more so!) in their stunning Schumann recordings.


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## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

Rogerx said:


> Lots of recommendation are made, however if you want to extent your horizon try this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 0028948021574 ( product number)


Thanks for this suggestion! Some lovely works. Very much enjoyed listening to it last night. Auf De Strom is great was just listening to it a few nights before ( a 1954 live recording with Ricard Lewis and Dennis Brain).


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## Dulova Harps On (Nov 2, 2018)

I have listened to a recording of Schwanengesang by Peter Schreier and Andras Schiff which i very much enjoyed.As for Winterreise i have listened to a few recordings now and for whatever reason i just cannot connect with it. I don't dislike it but it just isn't grabbing me yet. Have also listened to various Lieder recordings and very much enjoyed the CD Nachtviolen by Christian Gerhaher.
Thanks everyone again for your thoughtful suggestions. I most certainly will have many hours of listening pleasure ahead of me in exploring Schubert's works.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> DFD was a great artist but has never been a favourite in Schubert for me - he can seem too mannered - but his early recordings with pianist Klaus Billing show a very different side to his art and one I am more attuned with. He sounds very young indeed and his characterisation is much more subtle.


I agree with you on the 'mannered' artificial singing of DFD. I have the same with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf. This sometimes stands in the way of enjoying the music. To me, in his later recordings, DFD's singing however becomes more personal, natural and unpolished, you can hear imperfections and limitations, which somehow adds to the music. This is the case in the recordings with Brendel.

But the more I hear of him, the more I appreciate the Lieder recordings of Peter Schreier. He has this storytelling voice and is also very musical. It just sounds right with him. Be it Wolf, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, it always is relaxed and inviting.


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

I collected half a dozen different recordings of Winterreise when I began exploring Lieder but, after listening to this 1966 recording by Fischer-Dieskau and Jorg Demus, my craving for the perfect version was satisfied.

If DFD's singing is mannered and arficial, then mannered and artificial is what I crave in Lieder. I've read that kind of criticism before and never been able to understand it. Perhaps it's because I love words and am passionate about poetry, as was Fischer-Dieskau. I can listen closely to his Lieder singing again and again and find new shades of expression in it. I think he recorded it so many times because he was finding more and more to express, more subtlety that he hadn't been aware of when he was younger. He was also a fine actor by the way. But in this 1966 his voice is still fresh and beautiful.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

I can't stand Bostridge, his voice sounds too 'castrated'. It is anaemic singing, a fair bit falsetto, and lacking any real power. Hotter is the most powerful of all lieder singers. His Schwanengesang I think is definitive. Fischer-Dieskau has a special relationship with this repertoire, but he can be a little fussy and vocally variable. Brigitte Fassbaender gives a serviceable account if you feel that sopranos ought to be able to tackle the 'male' cycles of Schubert. I once had a very enjoyable, but little known recording by Ronald Dowd of the Winterreise. Worth seeking if you want an alternative tenor version.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Eusebius12 said:


> I can't stand Bostridge, his voice sounds too 'castrated'. It is anaemic singing, a fair bit falsetto, and lacking any real power.


Well, I agree about most of this, and would add that you should avoid him in concert, where the physical mannerisms are just as offputting. But I did hear him sing in Boston Symphony Hall with the BSO, in a performance of the Britten War Requiem with Goerke and Quasthoff (I just realized that this was 20 years ago!). I have to admit that when heard live, the voice seems a bit more substantial, and I had no trouble hearing him from the second balcony, where the physical mannerisms were not nearly as noticeable as they were when I heard him more recently in the more intimate Jordan Hall.



> Hotter is the most powerful of all lieder singers. His Schwanengesang I think is definitive.


Pretty close, although I think that Terfel's, recorded early in his career, is also superb.



> I once had a very enjoyable, but little known recording by Ronald Dowd of the Winterreise. Worth seeking if you want an alternative tenor version.


I have a vague recollection that this appeared briefly on CD - I'll have to look next time I'm in the basement where my collection resides. It does appear to be on Spotify.


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

aussiebushman said:


> Try to find the 1933 recording of Winterreise sung by Gerhard Husch with Hanns Udo Müller. It is superb. Avoid the recording he made many years later when he was way past his prime


Yes, the later Huesch was vocally pretty strained. I am fairly sure that F-D was an admirer of Huesch (and that in a significant sense he was F-D's predecessor)


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## Eusebius12 (Mar 22, 2010)

Yes, Bostridge is good in some things. Some performers I can't stand solo and tolerate much better in ensembles. When the spotlight is off him, I can tolerate Bostridge. I am also not a big fan of most counter tenors. But Bostridge looks like he isn't physically well. His persona and vocal tone I find offputting. To be honest I haven't heard Terfel's Schwanengesang, no doubt an omission on my part. Terfel is often a little gritty for my tastes. But early Terfel was less so. Hampson, whilst an intelligent performer, is a little gritty also to my ears. Souzay, who I can't recall seeing mentioned in this thread thus far, is certainly also a Schubertian tenor worth mentioning.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

Many good suggestions above, Holzmeier is very good, also Elly Ameling, a superb Schubertist. However, I do not like Ian Bostridge's _Winterreise_ - he sings it, how else to say it...in a sensual way, exulting in the extravagant lusciousness of his own voice and considerable vocal gifts. Schubert's Winter Journey is of a man who seems to be older and definitely losing his grip on reality through the final infinitely haunting song, _Der Leiermann_. This is a man destroyed by his profound disappointment in love. Fischer-Diskau recorded it, I think, 7 times and I have 3 recordings reflecting his interpretations in the early '50s, also the '60s, and the '70s and they are all superb and each is very personal. His recording at age 28 shows his fully formed instrument and it is astonishing. I also like Matthias Goerne's interpretation, greatly. Hans Hotter's beautiful realization is from 1942 and is so touching and effective. _Winterreise_ is a great work of art that will stand alongside many genius works of greater forces with ease. It is not a spontaneously infectious work by any stretch. Personally, I just kept coming back to it and now it towers above all his cycles in my estimation. I own 7 recordings of it, and though it was written for tenor, the baritones and basses (Kurt Moll, for instance) win out, easily. It is a gloomy, deeply felt expression that Schubert wrote while suffering from the terrible disease that took his life.

Final word: Ian Bostridge's finely published book entitled _Schubert's Winter Journey - Anatomy of an Obsession _, is an amazing work of great devotion and scholarship. Each of the 24 songs is discussed at great length. Bostridge is a great singer and also a great writer and scholar. In this book he has created a valuable document any lover of Schubert and _Winterreise_ will read and read again and again.


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## numinisgos (May 10, 2017)

As far as Winterreise is concerned one might as well check Anders with Raucheisen (1945).






_From the DG Booklet_

Despite the devastation caused by the war, there were concerts in Berlin even as late as April 1945. Early that month there were several concerts in the Schauspielhaus with Tiana Lemnitz, Lieselotte Enck, Gertrud Runger, Helge Roswaenge, Peter Anders and Jaro Prohaska. On April 13, Lore Hoffmann, Gunther Treptow and Leopold Ludwig from the 'Deutsche Oper' gave their last concert in the Beethovensaal and on April 15, Tiana Lemnitz, Ludwig Suthaus and Jaro Prohaska gave one final concert in the Gendarmenmarkt with excerpts from Verdi's Otello. The next concert had been planned for April 21, but did not come about. On its way from Wannsee to Berlin-Mitte the municipal railways capitulated unconditionally. Those travellers who had set out for the concert had to walk home. Berlin was already under Russian artillary fire. Ten days later the capital capitulated.
After the closure of all German theatres in July the Reichsrundfunk continued its work even more intensively than before - until March in fact. The leading singers of the great opera houses were now more easily available for productions as the regular repertoire theatres had ceased staging operas. Anyone not engaged in troop entertainment programmes appeared in concert recitals once or twice a week and was grateful for any additional engagement that preventend or at least delayed a draft to the front. The famous Berlin Rundfunk Martha production with Erna Berger, Else Tegetthoff, Peter Anders and Josef Greindl was produced in October 1944 and even in February 1945 some scenes from Entfuhrung aus dem Serail with Anders and Berger were recorded. Between July 1944 and March 1945 the legendary pianist/accompanist Michael Raucheisen called all those singers to the Rundfunk studios whose recitals he had enjoyed accompanying in the past few years. Erna Berger, Tiana Lemnitz, Hilde Scheppan, Margarete Klose, Martha Fuchs, Peter Anders, Karl Schmitt-Walter, Will! Domgraf-Fassbaender and Josef Greindl produced hundreds of Lied recordings in these 9 months. Most of the recordings survived the war and together with the opera and concert productions subsequently formed the basic repertoire of the "denazified" Rundfunk archive in the post WW II era.
One of the most popular singers in Berlin at the time was Peter Anders. In September and November 1944 he participated in some chamber music recitals in the Staatsoper. Rarely at that time was he heard in opera concerts, as he devoted most of his time to Raucheisen's Lied productions. Not all the recordings made at that time can be dated exactly. In November 1944 a complete Hugo Wolf cycle was recorded; for December 1944 Pfitzner lieder were scheduled, in January and February 1945 lieder by Marschner, Richard Strauss, Schumann and Richard Wetz were taped. The recording date of Peter Anders' legendary Winterreise was often assumed to be winter 1944. New research, however, has verified that the cycle was recorded on February 23, as well as March 2 and 13, 1945 - probably the last recording of the "Großdeutschen Rundfunk."
Despite the chaotic conditions in post-war Berlin, the singers tried to keep matters going somehow. The unconditional surrender declaration signed on May 8, 1945 ended the war. On May 22, 1945 Irma Beilke, Gunther Treptow, Karl Schmitt-Walter, Victor de Kowa as MC as well as the Orchestra of the Deutsche Opernhaus under Leopold Ludwig gave a concert in the Funkhaus, which, at the command of the Soviet General Bersarin, was transmitted to Moscow. On June 16, Erna Berger, Margarete Klose, Peter Anders and Ludwig Suthaus resumed concert activities for the Staatsoper, together with the Staatskapelle orchestra under Karl Schmidt. On September 2, 1945 the Deutsche Opernhaus inaugurated its first post-war season with Fidelio in the Theater des Westens. One week later the Staatsoper followed suit, now housed in the Admiralspalast. On September 10, Peter Anders sang Duca in the premiere of Rigoletto - his first opera appearance after the war. His success as a recitalist led to a Heinrich Heine mattinee together with Horst Caspar. On May 5, 1947 he sang the Winterreise in public for the first time, ironically being chided by Hans Heinz Stuckenschmidt in his critique for singing a 'Winterreise in spring'. Anders' subsequent success was overwhelming. Until his death in September 1954 he remained a favourite with the Berlin concert and opera public, even though he had moved to Hamburg in 1947 and sang Stolzing, Siegmund, Florestan, Andr, Chenier and Otello there. Peter Anders was one of the few Heldentenors to retain his vocal limpidity even in heroic parts.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Eusebius12 said:


> I am fairly sure that F-D was an admirer of Huesch (and that in a significant sense he was F-D's predecessor)


Hüsch, along with Schlusnus, is likely one of the baritones that DFD heard most often in Berlin while a teenager. And Hüsch's voice was probably similar in weight to DFD's.

Hüsch's Lieder recordings are magnificent.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

NightHawk said:


> Final word: Ian Bostridge's finely published book entitled _Schubert's Winter Journey - Anatomy of an Obsession _, is an amazing work of great devotion and scholarship.


The book is quite good. Bostridge is much better as a writer than he is as a singer.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I have always found German lieder a little difficult - something to enjoy very occasionally and in small doses - and have sometimes found it irritating. But the timing was right and this thread seems to have set me off in listening to a huge amount of Lieder. I had a good few records but hardly knew them (apart from a few accounts of Winterreise) and then there is so much more to discover by streaming. German Lieder, particularly Schubert and Brahms, has been a big part of my classical listening over the last two weeks - a wonderful experience and one I was not expecting. So a big thanks to the OP for that.


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