# The conductor's influence on orchestral sound.



## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

These days particularly at festival times, it is possible to hear the same orchestra being conducted by different conductors over a short space of time,thus enabling one to hear the difference ( if any) that conductors may make on an orchestra. It would seem not too much changes from performance to performance.
going back a few decades! there were conductors that could radically alter an orchestra's sound.
Barbirolli was beloved by every orchestra he ever conducted and they all would produce his own special string sound. One reason for this was that JB "bowed" all the string parts himself, and these parts would travel with him from orchestra to orchestra for the respective librarians to quickly add to that orchestra's string parts before rehearsals, often requiring much burning of midnight oil. This "musical punctuation" can quickly alter the way an orchestra sounds. most modern conductors don't do this. One needs to have a full understanding of string playing technique or, better if one was a string player oneself (Barbirolli was a cellist, Giulini, a violist) to be able to do this.
Normally the concertmaster will do this for the Violins-violas and the section leaders of the Cellos and basses will do the same. This in itself can make the sound of an orchestra very similar when conducted by many conductors.
It can also be an eye opener to listen to recordings of the same orchestra done over a similar time period with different conductors. 
A good example would be Barbirolli and Klemperer conducting the Philharmonia in the early to mid sixties.
apart from the Principal horn, Alan Civil, who moved to the BBC in 1966, the personnel remained basically the same. Take any two recordings of these two conductors and the Philharmonia, and let some one hear them blind, 9 out of 10 would say that they were two different orchestras. (orchestral musicians would know better).
no orchestra underwent such a radical change in it's sound as the Berlin Philharmonic during the transition between Furtwängler and Karajan in 1954-55. Those recordings also suggest that two orchestras were used. No , only two extremely dominant and different personalities, who imposed their own personal ideas on the BPO.

So for me, it is not so much the orchestras that are losing their individuality, it is the modern conductor that is not able to impress the orchestras enough to influence it's characteristic sound.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

An orchestra should not have a one size fits all sound for everything it plays . Rather, it should be like a chameleon, able
to change its sound and style to fit the composer , the nationality of the music, and the historic period .
It should not sound the same in Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Tchikovsky, Bruckner, Mahler, Prokofiev,
Shostakovich , Elgar, Debussy, Ravel , Copland , Dvorak , Carter, Britten etc .
Of course, accomplishing this is more easily said than done . Both conductors and the individual musicians
should be aware of these stylistic and sound differences .
For example , Eugene Ormandy was lavishly praised for his so-called "Philadelphia sound", that plush, lush ,
ultrasmooth, glossy sound he always got out of it . But to me, he tended to apply that one size fits all sound and
style to everything he conducted , and tended to reduce orchestral music to generalized plush sounds , as hetertical
as this may sound to his many fans . Ormandy was very good in Russian and French music , for example, but 
the Philadelphins under him never had the true Austro-German sound one wants in Wagner, Bruckner, Mahler,
Richard Strauss etc . 
The solo oboe had a rather cloying sweet and oily sound, unlike the trditional pungent reedy German oboe sound,
the horns were rather thin , and the trumpets played with a jazzy vibrato rather than the noble, straight tone' of 
German players . The Berlin Phil. under Karajan embodied this Germanic sound, and still does to this day .
Decades ago ,at the so-called Frankfurt museum concerts , played at an art museum in that city by members of the 
local oper orchestra under mny renowned conductors , the woodwind and brass players used french instruments when
playing French music to try to recreate the appropritte sound for the music .


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

It depends on the knowledge, talent, personalities/attitudes of both parties, and the conductor's position (guest or music director), as to what needs to and can be done.

Combinations and generalities:

*Less-accomplished conductor and less-accomplished orchestra*. Lots needs to be done, but realistically, damage control is about all that can be done.

*Less-accomplished conductor and highly-accomplished orcherestra*. No matter how hard the "maestro" tries, the tail will wag the dog in this scenario.

*Highly-accomplished conductor and less-accomplished orchestra*. This is where it gets most interesting, in my opinion. I've seen famous (and personable) conductors who are guesting, transform an orchestra into another realm, surprising and thrilling everyone. Orchestra enthusiasm can carry over, but usually evaporates quickly when the dullard director returns.

*Highly-accomplished conductor and highly-accomplished orchestra*. Anything can happen. They can energize each other with the possibility of new approaches. Or, they can get caught up with egos, redundancy, etc.


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## EDaddy (Nov 16, 2013)

Well said, Vaneyes. Very astute observation. I am constantly amazed at how vastly different a great symphonic composition can sound depending on whose hands (and ears) it is entrusted to... i.e. the different conductor/orchestra/competence combinations you mentioned. Some performances just "sit there" or have a "going-through-the-motions" kind of feel about them. And then some inspired genius will take to the podium and bring down heaven's gate. It's really something else.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> It depends on the knowledge, talent, personalities/attitudes of both parties, and the conductor's
> *Less-accomplished conductor and highly-accomplished orcherestra*. No matter how hard the "maestro" tries, the tail will wag the dog in this scenario.


It's funny how you can have a half-a** conductor mixed with an incredible orchestra and the performance can still sound great.


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