# pre-hispanic/ latin-themed music



## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

A frequently unexplored terrain among western classical music listeners is the music that's come out of latin America, which is a shame because it has a tendency to be distinct from the much-celebrated Americans and Europeans. A lot of the most popular works deal explicitly with pre-Hispanic/ American indian themes or are drawing from genres of music that have been a presence in the latin world for a long time.

So....here's a thread to talk about those works and post your favorite recordings.

Here's one of the most famous by Carlos Chávez - I like this recording because the percussion comes through pretty well, and the instrumentation as Chávez originally intended it is pretty unusual for an orchestra piece.






More to come!


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting subject. I look forward to more examples.


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## Gouldanian (Nov 19, 2015)

Very interesting subject indeed. A few weeks ago I posted a piece of Peruvian classical music on my blog. A piece that many people know but don't realize that it's from an actual play.

''Peruvian classical music? ''El condor pasa'' es una cancion... that's where my Spanish ends.

Back to English. ''El condor pasa'' is an orchestral musical piece from a Peruvian play called ''Zarzuela'' written by Senior Daniel Alomia Robles in 1913. It has since been remastered thousands of times by several artists, so much that in 2004 the Peruvian Government declared it part of the national cultural heritage.''


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

"El condor pasa" is Peruvian but it's been appropriated by the whole of Latin America.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Here's probably the most famous work from Revueltas who was Chávez' compatriot/ contemporary. The subject matter of Sensemayá is an afro-Cuban ritual that involves the sacrifice of a snake.....I like this video because it gives you some idea of the orchestration; I used to have the score in an anthology but I lost it  Anyway, I think this piece is pretty irresistible, infectious, advanced....it satisfies a craving for so many different things.






While we're with Revueltas, here's his other 'masterwork'.......originally a movie score that I guess was adapted into the sometimes-performed concert suite, la noche de los mayas is a pretty impressive score by the standards of either genre. I think the imperious, evocative opening is supposed to depict a sunset (hence the 'night' of the title), and its recurrence at the end is dawn. One of the other moments I love (there are many) is the 'transition' between the romantic 3rd movement and the finale......


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Here are some cuter works by the same composers....this one for piccolo/ flutes and Eb clarinet and an assortment of percussion is entitled with the name of a popular and very multi-faceted Aztec God. I wish I could find out more about it, I remember reading a preface that Chávez wrote in the score.....






I remember Chávez writing that 'we have no way of knowing what the music of the Ancients was like, however.....", but one thing I know is that Marimba and flute is today very common instrumentation among the central American indigenous.

And here's the piece 'Walking" by Revueltas.






If anyone has a means to find out more information about the music discussed, I'd love for you to take advantage.....I know I've researched them a little bit but I tend to be haphazard and not keep track of links very well.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Here are some selections from the Popol Vuh suite of the famous Argentinian composer Ginastera. Popol Vuh is the indigenous title of a widespread Creation story.

Apparently it includes a magical corn festival:






And a great flood/ rainstorm. I thought the instrumentation in this one was especially impressive, like small amphibious creatures or little raindrops or something:


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Arturo Márquez is known for danzón no. 2, but no. 8 is also very impressive....to me it has quite a lot of arab/ Spanish inflections, though danzón is apparently primarily a Cuban genre.






Here's an American composers' take on the Meso-american theme. I'm not even sure if I hear anything after the first two minutes of this piece, but it was an interesting find:


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Gabriel Pareyón*

Xochicuicatl Cuecuechtli - the first contemporary opera in Nahuatl


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

^ Wow, what a find. I'll have to watch it some time.........in the mean time, some dude blogged about it: http://nahuatlstudies.blogspot.com/2014/09/xochicuicatl-cuecuechtli-first.html

Apparently the plot is very 'NC-17' in subject matter  And has some allusion to Xochipilli, which is interesting because the name kinda looks like a Spanish word for private parts, even though I'm guessing it's an Aztec word? Curious how that works out.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Julio Estrada has reached back to pre-Columbian music for influence, as his titles suggest. Not sure how deeply "buried" it is underneath.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

So, do you want any latin american THEMED music or specifically composers born in those countries? 

The original post seems to suggest you want just composers. But if you want themed pieces as the thread title suggests, I'm surprised no one mentioned Scelsi. Or any of the operas after the conquering of the Aztecs.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

nathanb said:


> So, do you want any latin american THEMED music or specifically composers born in those countries?
> 
> The original post seems to suggest you want just composers. But if you want themed pieces as the thread title suggests, I'm surprised no one mentioned Scelsi. Or any of the operas after the conquering of the Aztecs.


My answer to your question would be either/ or, it doesn't matter. Also, I think most of the operas we talk about on TC were after the conquering of the Aztecs....


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> My answer to your question would be either/ or, it doesn't matter. Also, I think most of the operas we talk about on TC were after the conquering of the Aztecs....


Oh lord, was it really not clear that I meant to type "operas _based on_..."?


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

nathanb said:


> Oh lord, was it really not clear that I meant to type "operas _based on_..."?


Why don't go ahead you post them, since it's clear I'm a cultureless plebeian whose awareness extends to only the most pedestrian music.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2015)

Gaspard de la Nuit said:


> Why don't go ahead you post them, since it's clear I'm a cultureless plebeian whose awareness extends to only the most pedestrian music.


I have no idea what you're talking about?


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

nathanb said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about?


Why don't you post examples of the kind you're complaining aren't being posted.


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## conclass (Jan 12, 2013)

Antônio Carlos Gomes - Il Guarany






''questo ragazzo incomincia dove lascio io'' - (this young man begins where I leave off''.﻿) - Verdi on Carlos Gomes.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Some pieces inspired by Latin- and South-American history:

*Scelsi*: _"Uaxcuctum"_ for choir & orchestra (1966)
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/scelsi/uaxuctum.php
_"This is an intensely dramatic work, and the most bizarre in Scelsi's output. It depicts the end of an ancient civilization - residing in Central America, but with mythical roots extending back to Egypt and beyond - it is the last flowering of a mystical and mythological culture which was slowly destroyed by our modern world. In this case, Scelsi says, the Mayans made a conscious decision to end the city themselves. Uaxuctum incorporates harmonic elements throughout, and is extremely difficult to come to terms with. "_





*Josef Myslivecek*: _"Montezuma", _opera (1770) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motezuma_(Mysliveček)






*Vivaldi*:_ "Montezuma", _opera (1733)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motezuma


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

^ Wow, never even heard of Carlos Gomes before, apparently he was quite celebrated. I'll definitely have to listen to those other selections.

Here's some more from Arturo Marquez that I thought was worth sharing, these ones are very popular:






When I first heard the opening of Danzón No. 2 I thought it sounded like the most generic Cuban thing I'd ever heard, but it *really* grew on me, the orchestration is really nice, as is the whole arc of the piece.






I would feel remiss not to post this one.....how could it be performed any differently than this?


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Gaspare Spontini´s Fernand Cortez about the conquest of the Aztek empire:






Guiseppe Verdi´s Alzira about the Inkas:


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

Alright, I had no idea that Verdi, Vivaldi, etc. had composed operas with a plot concerning the pre-Hispanic civilization. 

I think (and I guess this was nathanb's point) what I meant instead of pre-Hispanic/ latin theme was actually more like a pre-Hispanic or latin musical idiom being used.


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

We can't get enough Revueltas on this subject. Many of the best performances of his pieces are here in this double CD. I recommend it strongly.










This is a very nice and accomplished album, plenty of latin taste and a kind of melancholic party.










This is a terrific album, an old favorite of mine. Mexican flutist Horacio Franco (along with double bass partner Victor Flores) performes some personal and lovely baroque suites in wich he inserts danzón and prehispanic pieces. I recomend it highly for adventure baroque lovers.










Another intriguing release by Franco is Lienzos de viento, a very appealing fusion between barroque, renaissance, prehispanic and even oriental music.


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## worov (Oct 12, 2012)

Thank you, Gaspard, for introducing me to this thread. You could be interested in this recording (if you don't know it yet):










Rodolfo Halffter :






Alberto Ginastera :






Rodolfo Arizaga :






Luis Gianneo :


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

I listened to the Gianneo and it is a rather attractive piece that reminds me of turn-of-the-century French composers in a lot of places, but I did notice the folk themes popping in (remind me of some of the ones from Huapango a lot).

Thanks for posting Estancia as well....I think Ginastera's music is among the most impressively written of any composer and his evocations of pre-Colombian themes are definitely unique from the Mexican composers as well. There are some clips of Popol Vuh earlier in the thread, which is an astonishing score with great orchestral effects. Here's his opus 1, which was a ballet called Panambí, with a sort of romantic amerindian-inspired plot:






It's a pretty advanced and engaging score, especially for an opus 1, worth a listen for anyone who is interested in the thread topic and has half an hour.

This one's on my listening to-do list, it's a more modernist display of Ginastera, and from the portion I've listened to of it sounds very expressive:






@ Heliogabo, thanks for the recommendations. I definitely agree about Revueltas, he's very potent in this respect.


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## Gaspard de la Nuit (Oct 20, 2014)

This one is kind of cliché, but very famous and definitely evocative.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

How about Ramirez' Misa Criolla?


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