# How much attention do you pay to conductor's job while listening to his recording?



## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Serafin's Verdi, Solti's Wagner, Toscanini's Puccini, bla bla bla. We always use conductor's name to identify opera recordings. 

No doubt that conductor is the boss, someone who selects singers and sometimes even tell them how to sing and act. 

But when we say "I love Karajan's Otello" do we mean that we love what Karajan did or what happened in Karajan's project but didn't come from himself? I often get impression of the latter. Someone say's "Karajan's recording is wonderful one" but then justifies his choice by writing exclusively about what singers did. There is little talk about conductor's job.

It's clear to me that there can be great opera recording with great singers and average conductor, but there can't be such recording with great conductor and average singers. Opera is, after all, vocal genre of music. 

I also confess that I always turn my attention to singer. If I get new recording and want to check out what it's worth I never go to hear overture or interludes, no matter how great they would be - I always go to hear how singers did sing my favourite vocal parts. 

Just from time to time I realise that I dislike performance of some orchestral coda at the end or this wretched overture. But during arias, choral parts I rarely compare and judge orchestra's job in details.

I wonder what aftershaves other users are using.


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## scytheavatar (Aug 27, 2009)

Aramis said:


> Serafin's Verdi, Solti's Wagner, Toscanini's Puccini, bla bla bla. We always use conductor's name to identify opera recordings.
> 
> No doubt that conductor is the boss, someone who selects singers and sometimes even tell them how to sing and act.
> 
> ...


Ultimately the singers are still more important than the orchestral, since in opera it's the singers that are leading and the orchestral that's accompanying. However if you think you can have a "great" opera with great singers and average conductor, I got to say that your standards of "great" is not high enough. Because not having a great conductor to put the orchestral to a high level can ruined what in many cases are a perfect cast. To me Keilberth's Ring set is the perfect example of this; the cast is about as perfect as it can get, and it's a true representation of the golden age of opera singers (I always laughed at those who considered Solti's Ring to represent the golden age of opera singers). But Keilberth isn't what I would consider a good conductor, and he ruins that set with his highly crude and unintelligent conducting. If not for him I would have called that set the perfect Ring set, but overall I could only call it as "very good but not a contender for reference level".


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm not usually interested in the conductor - am only interested in the singers.

I have three Macbeths:










This was my very first experience of Macbeth & from the start I loved it. Loved all the singers & the 'punchy' & 'aggresive' orchestration. Must have listened to it hundreds of times.

Then I got this DVD










Although I wasn't too sure about the production at first, it's become one of my favourites. Singing & orchestration is superb & equal to the quality on my CD.

Then I got this one










Production & singing good but orchestration is 'light' & 'pretty' & I don't care for it much.

I'm never sure whether it's the conductor or the producer or the director who has the most influence though.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

Ultimately,everything is important in an opera recording.The singers,the conductor,the orchestra,the sound quality. But you should never underestimate the importance of the conductor.It's he or she who controls the whole enterprise and moulds the performance. 
The best cast in the world is pretty much lame without a good conductor. But a less than ideal cast can be made to rise to the occaision and deliver a performance which is more than the sum of its parts with a first rate condutor at the helm.
The conductor is rather like the director of a movie. You can't shoot a movie without one.
The conductor has to co-ordinate everything. 
So far I've only heard Gotterdammerung from the Testament Ring under Keilberth,and I don't agree at all with the assessment of his conducting. The cast is top notch, but not superior to the Solti Ring. 
A conductor should not be a tyrant who is a control freak and keeps the singers under too tight a leash and inhibits their individuality,but neither should he be a pushover who is totally subservient to them.
I know about this from first hand experience,having been the member of opera orchestras myself.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

ultimately, the conductor is responsible for everything. the singers may have a great voice, and their experience allows them to mould their performance to accord with the conductors wishes. everything you hear is a result of the (good) conductors initiative, or has been approved by him.
why else do you think the conductor spends so many hours rehearsing with the singers at the piano?


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## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Slightly off-topic perhaps, but not completely: I used to play in a (very amateurish, just for fun) accordion orchestra, and we would always say about our conductor: Don't pay attention to him, he has to conduct the way we play.


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## karenpat (Jan 16, 2009)

I suppose it is easier to identify a recording by naming the conductor instead of a whole lineup of singers...
To answer your question, I don't have the same work by different conductors in my collection so I wouldn't know how to identify the conductor's work without having anything to compare it to..


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## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I agree that we speak of Solti's, von Karajan's, Böhm's, Janowski's, Barenboim's, Boulez's etc. Rings mainly to identify the recording in question - not in the sense that the conductor would be responsible for everything. He is the boss, but he cannot make an opera alone, without the singers and the orchestra. In a staged production there is also the director, in a recording possibly the producer and the sound technicians.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I think that if one is 'AWARE' of the conductor, then he/she's not doing the job properly. I have my favourite conductors like many other people, but it is the MUSIC that I want to listen to, not the results of the ego or foibles of a bad conductor. A conductor should be a facilitator - he/she shouldn't get in the way of the music. Some conductors are so obsessed with stamping their 'identity' on a score (shouldn't the COMPOSER'S identity be the only relevant one?) that they completely ruin the music they are conducting.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Delicious Manager said:


> I think that if one is 'AWARE' of the conductor, then he/she's not doing the job properly. I have my favourite conductors like many other people, but it is the MUSIC that I want to listen to, not the results of the ego or foibles of a bad conductor. A conductor should be a facilitator - he/she shouldn't get in the way of the music. Some conductors are so obsessed with stamping their 'identity' on a score (shouldn't the COMPOSER'S identity be the only relevant one?) that they completely ruin the music they are conducting.


True, but its never that simple is it?

Do I ignore the inversion when judging the importance of this cadence? 
Did the composer intend this deceptive cadence to be a big surprise? Do I need to somehow reinforce the feeling of surprise?

These kind of questions pop up about a billion times in one score, there can never be total agreement. Most conductors do try to illuminate and reveal the composers intentions, but a score is just symbols after all and who is to decide what the composers intention really is?

Therefore we have a conductor who decides and all those in the performance must alter their playing to his wishes in order to obtain a coherent representation of the piece.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

The conductor's work is of course critical to the performance of any opera, even amongst the pursuit of historically informed practice. Rene Jacobs' recording of Mozart operas have provided a fresh look at these masterpieces that, despite claiming HIP, sound significantly different with regards to say, tempi and certain cases the pitch of the voices, with extent of vibrato, compared with other HIP. It's all fascinating stuff. So yes, I do pay a great deal of attention to how these works are interpreted especially with more familiar old masterpieces.


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