# Saddest music



## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

I dont know why but the sadder the music is the easier it is to me to connect to it and love it. So what is the the saddest music you know?
examples of what I think is sad and I like it are:
Mendelssohn's 6th quartet
Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony
Most of brahms' music has a tragic\very serious atmosphere
Some requiems like Beahms, Verdi, Faure, and maybe even Mozart.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

For me there are two different kinds of sadness in music:

Some of it is just crushing, pessimistic and negative. this is very powerful and can depress me for days.

There is other music that conveys the kind of sadness humans can experience after very sad events. This is something you can relate to slightly, perhaps the loss of a loved one, and in some ways is very beautiful not just negative.

For me the ultimate example of the 2nd category is Dvorak's Stabat Mater. Ive long considered this to be his masterpiece. He wrote it after the consecutive deaths of three of his children, and so the sadness is very real and human.
In the end of the piece though it transcends the sadness when he finds that there is something greater.

Really amazing.


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

http://www.talkclassical.com/10134-sad-melancholic-yet-melodic.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/1450-tragical-sad-operas.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/724-sad-songs.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/3723-searching-sad-classical-song.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/10969-sad-songs.html


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

Malcolm Arnold's ninth symphony


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> For me there are two different kinds of sadness in music:
> 
> Some of it is just crushing, pessimistic and negative. this is very powerful and can depress me for days.
> 
> ...


Actually I got the stabat mater recently in the Dvorak masterworks so I'll listen to it in the near future, thanks. For your second category I'd put Mendelssohn's 6th SQ, Brahms' Horn Trio, and Mahler Das Lied.

P.S


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## Ravellian (Aug 17, 2009)

Wagner's _Tristan und Isolde._ Probably the most tragic opera ever written.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

People say its tragic and it is to some degree, but its more transcendent and I feel theyre united in their love-death.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Shostakovich can get pretty pessimistic, especially in some of his chamber music, and some symphonies. So I avoid that particular stuff.

Rachmaninoff is very sad/dark, he loved minor keys.

Schubert's 8th Symphony, particularly the 1st movement.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Internet doing problems for me to edit.

Thanks Starry I'm going through those threads now.

I'll try to get it Ravellian, I haven't been in the opera business until very recently so I hope it's a good start.

and going to check shostakovich SQs, hope it will be not to modern for me to 'get', thanks flutist. I heard some of his symphonies and haven't made a final opinion on them, for I remember that some of them really caught my attention e.g 5th and 9th


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## LordBlackudder (Nov 13, 2010)




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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

I find Beethovens String Quartet No. 13 quite tragic and anguished - especially the slow movement and Grosse Fugue.
Other Pieces that come to mind are Schuberts Rosamunde SQ #13 and Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1 .


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## starry (Jun 2, 2009)

Conor71 said:


> I find Beethovens String Quartet No. 13 quite tragic and anguished - especially the slow movement and Grosse Fugue.


The slow movement perhaps, but the Grosse Fugue has alot of variety within it.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

The first movement of Mahler's 3rd is currently the saddest sounding music I can think of off the top of my head. (Not all of it though, typical of Mahler its mixed in with some rollicking good times).


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

starry said:


> The slow movement perhaps, *but the Grosse Fugue has alot of variety within it.*


Thats why I find it anguished .


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

*Ralph Vaughan Williams - Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis - Conducted by Leonard Slatkin.*

It really makes me weep, but it could be because of how beautiful it is, but it isn't necessarily sad, so I can't count it.

*Giuseppe Verdi - Don Carlo- Ella giammai m'amo! - Sung by Ferruccio Furlanetto or Cesare Siepi*

Really sad.

*Henryk Gorecki - Symphony No. 3 *

If this isn't one of the saddest pieces of music, I don't know what is.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

emiellucifuge said:


> For me there are two different kinds of sadness in music:
> 
> Some of it is just crushing, pessimistic and negative. this is very powerful and can depress me for days.
> 
> ...


I listened to his Stabat Mater recently (it was perhaps my 4th time), and I didn't feel that. So I will listen again!

For the first kind of sad, I think of Shostakovich's 8th string quartet.

For the 2nd, Bach's Cantata 82, "Ich habe genug."


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Pieck said:


> and going to check shostakovich SQs, hope it will be not to modern for me to 'get', thanks flutist. I heard some of his symphonies and haven't made a final opinion on them, for I remember that some of them really caught my attention e.g 5th and 9th


You'll regret hearing those SQs though, I really don't like them.

I really like the 9th symphony too, but it's hardly "sad." It's actually satirical, in Shostakovichian style. Comes across as funny really, to me. I laugh at the manic ending.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

I actually really like his string quartets, particularly the 8th is one of the greatest among chamber masterpieces.


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Huilunsoittaja said:


> You'll regret hearing those SQs though, I really don't like them.
> 
> I really like the 9th symphony too, but it's hardly "sad." It's actually satirical, in Shostakovichian style. Comes across as funny really, to me. I laugh at the manic ending.


I know the 9th isnt sad, but I didnt say that I like only sad music.
BTW, still going to listen to SQs:tiphat:


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

Beating a dead horse, but Im Abendrot from Strauss's 4 letzte lieder


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Mahler - Kindertotenlieder.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

I'll have to check out the Dvorak Stabat Mater previously mentioned here...

Arvo Part's Cantus in Memorium Benjamin Britten is a pretty sad piece.


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## Charon (Sep 8, 2008)

How about the Adagietto from Mahler's 5th symphony?


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## Pieck (Jan 12, 2011)

Charon said:


> Arvo Part's Cantus in Memorium Benjamin Britten is a pretty sad piece.


I like that piece. Arvo Part has a sad atmosphere most of the time.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

agreed with Gorecki's third, beautiful beautiful stuff


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## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

*Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima-Krzysztof Penderecki 
*
Most would say it was scary, but really it's sadder than anything.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

A lot of Penderecki stuff is like that...St. Luke Passion, Polish Requiem etc.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

the_emptier said:


> A lot of Penderecki stuff is like that...St. Luke Passion, Polish Requiem etc.


His Polish Requiem is one of my current favorites. By the way if you haven't heard it yet and like the darker sounding side of Penderecki you should try Utrenja. But warning it's far eerier borderline frightening than St. Luke Passion.


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## the_emptier (Jan 27, 2011)

I can't wait


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## Baflar (Nov 23, 2013)

Try Richard Strauss' Metamorphosen. Unrelenting, but wonderful, sadness throughout. Entirely on strings too.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

The last 3 minutes or so of Mahler's 9th symphony.


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## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

Britten, "Let us sleep now" from the War Requiem.






Schuman, "When Jesus wept" from the New England Triptych.






Herrmann, "For the Fallen." and the "the Road" from Herrmann's score to the film Fahreheit 451.


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## kpashley (Jan 4, 2014)

Can anyone tell me the piece played around 9mins 30secs from the film Munich, it's irritating me now as I find it fascinating.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Also, the first movement of Shostakovich's violin concerto number one. Guaranteed to bring you down.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Finding yourself too happy lately? We can fix that with some Gorecki.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Vesuvius said:


> Finding yourself too happy lately? We can fix that with some Gorecki.


Later maybe. I'm getting my mid-day joy fix right now with the perky tunes of Shostakovich's Babi Yar, then maybe I'll move on to Schnittke for a while. :lol:


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## alexsar (Jan 4, 2014)

Schubert's sonata in B 960 part II andante sostenuto...one of the last pieces of music he wrote and his last piano sonata ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

KenOC said:


> Later maybe. I'm getting my mid-day joy fix right now with the perky tunes of Shostakovich's Babi Yar, then maybe I'll move on to Schnittke for a while. :lol:


Yeah. Real perky!


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## Trillo (Jan 4, 2014)

The famous and deeply overwhelming alto movement in St. Matthew Passion, sung by the incomparable Christa Ludwig:






The fourth movement of Mahler's Symphony No. 2, sung by the contralto goddess Ewa Podles:






Kathleen Ferrier's monumental recording of Agnus Dei, which had Karajan crying all over it:


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## doctorjohn (Mar 5, 2017)

Anyything By Dowland _semper dolens_


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Trillo said:


> The famous and deeply overwhelming alto movement in St. Matthew Passion, sung by the incomparable Christa Ludwig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of the most wonderful things ever recorded by Kathleen.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

The last aria ("Tu...Piccolo Iddio!") from Puccini's _Madama Butterfly_. I find it almost too sad to listen to.


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## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

Schubert's Winterreise. It portrays the total loss of everything: the protagonist has lost his beloved, his social circle, and his hope. His sanity seems to be gradually deserting him as well, as indicated by his delusional image of three suns in the sky. Toward the end of the cycle, with the chilling minimalism of "Der Leiermann," the protagonist even seems to lose his ability to _feel_.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Pavane for a dead princess. Beautiful is the most sad to me.


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## Jacob Brooks (Feb 21, 2017)

"Blicket Auf..." section from Mahler's Symphony 8. The greatest rendition I've yet heard of all of humanity crying out to be treated kindly.


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

alexsar said:


> Schubert's sonata in B 960 part II andante sostenuto...one of the last pieces of music he wrote and his last piano sonata ...


This guy gets life itself  Extraordinary piece, i agree.

To the topic at hand its a bit difficult, many works may incorporate a profound sadness, but will usually encompass far more, providing emotional contrasts.So some of my suggestions will only be partly "sad". From what i can think of though without mentioning what i recall having seen here:

3rd mvt of Mahlers 4th, though only the beginning, it becomes a classic mahler bundle of neurotic angst.
A fair number of Chopin preludes and nocturnes, though most of them revolve around more than sheer agony.
Grieg's Death of Aase
Tchaikovskys Elegie for Strings & Serenade for Strings, 3rd mvt
Mozarts piano concerto no 23, K488, the Adagio
Barbers usual Adagio for Strings
Rachmaninov's Elegie for piano in E flat. Highly underrated but probably too intense and personal for being a popular concert piece. His Vocalise for Cello and orchestra too.
Quite a lot of Shostakovich's chamber music. Careful with your experimentations however, some of it will make your ears bleed.

Faure:
The Adagio movements from both the 1st and 2nd piano 
Andante mvt of his 1st violin sonata
Andante mvt of his 2nd cello sonata. Probably his favourite work to me.
The elegie, i prefer the version he made for cello & orchestra.
Check out his nocturnes too. Particularly 6th and onward.

Beethoven:
5th mvt of the no 13 string quartet. Known as the cavatina, ludwig himself said he couldnt think of it without tears.
1st mvt of no 14 string quartet. Heartbreaking stuff.
7th mvt of string quartet no 16. Most call it transcendent and profound but i find the deepest of melancholy. When the opening theme returns after the middle section, its the most brutal music there is. But with an angelic voice 
The Largo mvt of his Geister trio.
Parts of the funeral march of his Eroica, though much of it has a more somber grandeur to it.
Violin Romance op. 50. Sad but in a more beautiful way and also laced with optimism.

Schubert:
8th symphony
Winterreise
The serenade from the swan song, transcribed to piano from lizst. The piano gives it a mysterious melancholic sound.

Schumann:
3rd mvt of his 1st piano trio
1st string quartet
In modo d'una marcia mvt of the string quintet 
1st & 2nd mvt of violin concerto if you get the right recordings.
Marchenbilder, the 4th mvt.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

For me, the saddest music is the last 5 minutes of Mahler 9. Played so softly by the violins. One of the most difficult things for an orchestra to play.

Complete resignation that this life is about to end.


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## NorthernHarrier (Mar 1, 2017)

The Adagio movement of Khachaturian's Gayane Ballet Suite.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

*Elgar's Nimrod*, one of the most moving piece in music history.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2017)

Pugg said:


> *Elgar's Nimrod*, one of the most moving piece in music history.


If you choose for Elgar than it rather be Sospiri,Op.70 
This is one of the very few LP's I kept.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Traverso said:


> If you choose for Elgar than it rather be Sospiri,Op.70
> This is one of the very few LP's I kept.


My beloved and departed grandfather was a huge fan of this work, played at his funeral.
( Solti I might add)


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Puccini's one-act opera, Suor Angelica....in particular the aria Senza Mama.

Mother and child ripped apart due to social custom because she's unwed. And the utter anguish when mother learns her lost but still much-loved son is dead. It doesn't get much sadder than that.

Also, the slow movements from Brahms violin sonatas. They have extra sad significance for me. I listened to these sonatas in memory of our dear departed forum friend L'Enfer on the night I learned of her passing. Four years ago, but I still think of her from time to time, such a sweet young lady.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Bruckner 9th 3rd Mov Heartbreaking 6th 2nd Mov
Beethoven Sym 7 Mov 2 'Eroica' 2nd Mov
Emperor concerto 2nd mov
Mozart Requiem Mass


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)




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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Rigoletto, in his great aria, begging the courtiers and Duke, imploring them to return his beloved daughter Gilda.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

TxllxT said:


>


Poor lady's......


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

Shostakovich -- the saddest music, bleak, gray, dying, hopeless, depressed music, or sometimes Mad and DEFIANT, but when it is sad, it is soul-crushingly sad. Did I mention it is sad?

String Quartet no. 8 is a great example, Symphony 14.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Been listening to Beethoven this morning and the 1st movement of his C sharp minor string quartet No. 14. By far the saddest melancholic piece I have ever heard in my life. Never has so much despair and angst been forced into the beautiful timbre of a string quartet. I can feel myself welling up just thinking about it. For the life of me I cannot imagine what that poor man was going through to produce such incredible music. No adjectives really suffice, although I guess superlative is a good one.


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## Pat Fairlea (Dec 9, 2015)

Kathleen Ferrier singing Britten's arrangement of the folksong 'O Waly, Waly'. A sad tale of lost love made all the more touching by Britten's sparse accompaniment and Ferrier's haunting voice.


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## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

Buahaha my 2011 post on this thread is so outdated for me. I don't "avoid" Shostakovich's dark music, although I wouldn't say I listen to THE most dour stuff all the time. But he had quite a spectrum of sadness, and some of it is quite refreshing while being dark and not simply a damper on the mood. Good stuff...


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Jesus wept, just been listening to the third movement of Beethoven's 15th String Quartet. Heartbreaking and beyond all human comprehension, I wouldn't know where to begin to try and unravel it. Sad? It is far from sad, below sad; it rips you in two! There is nothing beyond these late quartets, and grosse fugue, that trumps them. Everything was different when the Eroica was composed and everything ended when the late quartets were finished. There is little point to any music after 1827. Oh and I'll add in the tenth quartet as well.


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## MissKittysMom (Mar 2, 2017)

More Shostakovich:
Piano Trio No. 2 - in memory of his best friend, musicologist Ivan Solertinsky
Piano Sonata No. 2 - as with the Trio No. 2, written after evacuation from Leningrad in WWII
24 Preludes & Fugues - as with the quartets, many dark, dark pieces in this
Quartets 3, 7, 8, 11, 13, 15
Cello Concerto 2
Songs from Jewish Folk Poetry

Shostakovich used the passacaglia form for formal mourning; these can be found in several of his major works:
Piano Trio No. 2
String Quartets 3, 6, 10
Symphonies 8 & 15
Violin Concerto 1
24 Preludes & Fugues, prelude no. 12
Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk
(and I'm probably missing one or two)


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## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

beetzart said:


> Jesus wept, just been listening to the third movement of Beethoven's 15th String Quartet. Heartbreaking and beyond all human comprehension, I wouldn't know where to begin to try and unravel it. Sad? It is far from sad, below sad; it rips you in two!


Really? He wrote it after several years of stomach pains, too agonized to even compose music. When he recovered again he wrote this, and uncharacteristically titled the 3rd movement. Its called "Song of Thanksgiving to the Deity from a convalescent". The opening theme is certainly the sound of a man facing early mortality, but the remainder strikes me as utter gratitude. I nearly shed a tear the first several times, now i think the "sadness" i felt was merely awe of the heavenly beauty of it. Its such an inner, pure joy that it seems so far removed from actual happiness.

And i agree wholeheartedly. There is much music of more grandeur and stature but his late quartets silenty and serenily towers above them all. No concussion instrument, trumpet fanfares and massive choires here, he just conveys so much more than all the rest of them, with just 4 string instruments. Best music ever written, the cycle would be my deserted island choice


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Schumanniac said:


> Really? He wrote it after several years of stomach pains, too agonized to even compose music. When he recovered again he wrote this, and uncharacteristically titled the 3rd movement. Its called "Song of Thanksgiving to the Deity from a convalescent". The opening theme is certainly the sound of a man facing early mortality, but the remainder strikes me as utter gratitude. I nearly shed a tear the first several times, now i think the "sadness" i felt was merely awe of the heavenly beauty of it. Its such an inner, pure joy that it seems so far removed from actual happiness.
> 
> And i agree wholeheartedly. There is much music of more grandeur and stature but his late quartets silenty and serenily towers above them all. No concussion instrument, trumpet fanfares and massive choires here, he just conveys so much more than all the rest of them, with just 4 string instruments. Best music ever written, the cycle would be my deserted island choice


I just feel immense sadness in the music and that is with knowing the background to how he composed it. You are so right in your second paragraph. There is something so tender yet so utterly powerful in the timbre of the string quartet. All 5 of those last quartets feel as though they were written...actually I can't finish that sentence. Here we have a man who was profoundly deaf, his entire life had been difficult to say the least, he was never going to get better, he was a heavy drinker, yet he produced music that could be called the point at which music beyond this point is unnecessary. I enjoy romantic music but I feel nothing comes near to these quartets. Music began in c.1705 with JS Bach and finished in 1826 unless Ludwig squeezed another SQ in before March and hid it. Didn't Schubert say on hearing the 14th sq 'After this what is left for us to write?'


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2017)

Beethoven was a religious man.Beethovens relationship to God was that of a child.He was very excited when he found Champollions "The paintings of Egypt".He was struck by an inscripion wich he kept close his further life.
Beethoven knew that he was not the source of all things and that explains why he was able to overcome all his troubles.There was something greater....
Me also am struck by this ancient inscripture.

"I am that wich is.I am all that was,that is and shall be.No
mortal man has ever lifted the veil of me.He is solely of himself,and to 
this Only One all things owe their existance"

"Wrapped in the shadows eternal solitude,in the inpenetrable
darkness of the thicket, inpenetrable,inmeasurable,unapproachable,
formlessly extended.Before spirit was breathed ( into things) his spirit
was,and his only.As mortal eyes ( to compare finite and infinite things) his spirit
look into a shining mirror".

If you are so deeply touched by this profound inscripture it gives me an explanation why he was able to stay unbroken.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

MissKittysMom said:


> More Shostakovich:
> Piano Trio No. 2 - in memory of his best friend, musicologist Ivan Solertinsky
> Piano Sonata No. 2 - as with the Trio No. 2, written after evacuation from Leningrad in WWII
> 24 Preludes & Fugues - as with the quartets, many dark, dark pieces in this
> ...


Nice first post, welcome to TalkClassical.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Traverso said:


> Beethoven was a religious man.Beethovens relationship to God was that of a child.He was very excited when he found Champollions "The paintings of Egypt".He was struck by an inscripion wich he kept close his further life.
> Beethoven knew that he was not the source of all things and that explains why he was able to overcome all his troubles.There was something greater....
> Me also am struck by this ancient inscripture.
> 
> ...


Interesting. But from a materialistic viewpoint we can only assume that these works came from a quill in his hand, via instructions from his brain, ok he was probably inspired but by God only, surely not? He composed these works because he could. I wonder what Beethoven would have made, or did make of the great Greek philosopher Epicurus? Only as he expressed a more non-religious outlook to what we see around us, and that was well over 2000 years ago.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2017)

I did not speculate anything,only that in my opinion he was strengthened by his conviction wich gave him the force not to be imprisoned by his misfortunes
Life itself is a mystery and that is beautiful expressed in the Egyptian inscription thousands of years old.

http://everythingforever.com/einstein.htm


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## Ekim the Insubordinate (May 24, 2015)

Don't know if I am repeating anybody, but I have always found Barber's Adagio for Strings to be immensely sad and mournful. Apart from that, Bach's St. Matthew Passion - if not the entire work, then certainly some parts. Finally, Dido's Lament from Purcell's opera Dido and Aeneas.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

beetzart said:


> Didn't Schubert say on hearing the 14th sq 'After this what is left for us to write?'


And of course then he wrote his string quintet which surpasses anything Beethoven ever wrote.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2017)

beetzart said:


> Jesus wept, just been listening to the third movement of Beethoven's 15th String Quartet. Heartbreaking and beyond all human comprehension, I wouldn't know where to begin to try and unravel it. Sad? It is far from sad, below sad; it rips you in two! There is nothing beyond these late quartets, and grosse fugue, that trumps them. Everything was different when the Eroica was composed and everything ended when the late quartets were finished. There is little point to any music after 1827. Oh and I'll add in the tenth quartet as well.


I just listened to this. I am not familiar with the Beethoven string quartets but yes, this is very beautiful and so sad.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Siegfried's death and funeral march in Götterdämmerung. That is really sad.


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## Smikkelbeer (Mar 1, 2017)

Erik Satie's pieces are quite sad and/or depressing.
His Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes are sad yet beautiful pieces.


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## Poor Lemon (9 mo ago)

I like the distinction between depressing and sad, and it's the latter I want to address here.

Gorecki's 3rd painfully portrays loss, grief, and yearning from the first moment to the last. 

Many great works may have only a single truly sad movement, and are greater works than Gorecki's (though I love that symphony)

The saddest single movement for me has to be the finale to Mahler's 9th, followed closely by the finale to Mahler's 10th (if you accept that piece as being truly Mahler's). Other truly sad movements include the 3rd movement of Shosty's 5th, the 3rd movement from Mahler's 4th, and the finale of Vaughan-Williams 3rd. This last selection is so beautiful but there is a suggestion of loss, of saying goodbye.


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## Terrapin (Apr 15, 2011)

Art Rock said:


> And of course then he wrote his string quintet which surpasses anything Beethoven ever wrote.


I would put the Schubert quintet as well as his 8th symphony on par with (not surpassing) the late Beethoven quartets and his 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 9th symphonies as being among the greatest music ever written.


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## CatchARisingStar (7 mo ago)

The music of Philip Glass is not just sad to me, it's downright mournful. I really love those ostinatos, but man, this huge wave of depression washes over me just listening to, say, Mishima. His music is so transfixing. I can't stand it!


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## Andante Largo (Apr 23, 2020)

Mieczysław Karłowicz - A Sorrowful Tale


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

Debussy, Piano Etude No.10


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

tdc said:


> His Polish Requiem is one of my current favorites. By the way if you haven't heard it yet and like the darker sounding side of Penderecki you should try Utrenja. But warning it's far eerier borderline frightening than St. Luke Passion.


If you get a chance, listen to Penderecki's The Devils of Loudon. It frightened me. I could not finish listening to it.


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

NorthernHarrier said:


> The Adagio movement of Khachaturian's Gayane Ballet Suite.


Yes! I was going to mention this. Glad you brought this up. 

I'd also add Shostakovich's 2nd piano concerto, the middle movement. I'm surprised not to see Albinoni's Adagio in G minor, also a very sad piece. 

Chausson's Spleen, #3 from his 4 Mélodies. Sadly sung by Gérard Souzay with Jacqueline Bonneau accompanying. 

I'm not sure I'd rank Schönberg's Modern Psalm, Op. 50c at the top of sad songs, but it does have a melancholy air for me. 

Beethoven - Funeral March from his Third Symphony.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

Art Rock said:


> And of course then he wrote his string quintet which surpasses anything Beethoven ever wrote.


I don't know why I didn't realize that the Quintet was many months after the 14th Quartet. Thanks for clearing that in my cluttered mind. Very impressive ( Franz was so much younger).


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## Bernamej (Feb 24, 2014)

How about this beautiful song by Sandrin:


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I suggest that music itself is not sad, but that as emotional beings humans can certainly experience a sense of sadness from hearing a piece of music. But much may depend upon context.

I suspect many will consider Samuel Barber's Adagio to be "sad music". And it certainly can provoke that emotion from a listener. But a Strauss waltz or a Mozart minuet or a Verdi overture could be sad if one has experienced some catastrophe for which such music serves as a memory. Such as if one's loved one suffers a stroke or heart attack and dies while listening to a Strauss waltz at a concert. 

But I do understand the power of music to provoke emotional responses. During my time as a theatre sound designer I often had to match music to scenes and searched for pieces that supported emotional content. This was not always by going to obvious music. Sometimes off-kilter music will spur emotions with greater effect during a dramatic scene.

In one way of my thinking, all music is joyous. All music is celebratory and promotes the concept of the greatness of man's invention. We would be poorer as a species without our music, and I for one am glad to have it. All of it.

I suspect that perhaps the true "sad music" is that which I will never get a chance to hear. For the rest, it proves one of the great joys in my life.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> I suggest that music itself is not sad, but that as emotional beings humans can certainly experience a sense of sadness from hearing a piece of music. But much may depend upon context.
> 
> I suspect many will consider Samuel Barber's Adagio to be "sad music". And it certainly can provoke that emotion from a listener. But a Strauss waltz or a Mozart minuet or a Verdi overture could be sad if one has experienced some catastrophe for which such music serves as a memory. Such as if one's loved one suffers a stroke or heart attack and dies while listening to a Strauss waltz at a concert.
> 
> ...


Why are minor keys sad? The simple physics that tries to explain it is very interesting, but who really knows..


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Luchesi said:


> Why are minor keys sad? The simple physics that tries to explain it is very interesting, but who really knows..


I recently spent some time revisiting the Mahler Kindertotenlieder. Rückert's original poems derived from his grief over the loss of two children from scarlet fever. The poet wrote these in the mid-1830s and never meant the verses for publication. They weren't published until the 1870s, some years after Rückert's death. Three years after Mahler composed the song cycle his daughter Maria died of scarlet fever, aged four. Mahler wrote to an acquaintance about his experience: "I placed myself in the situation that a child of mine _had_ died. When I really lost my daughter, I could not have written these songs any more."

The song cycle begins in D minor with the following two songs in C minor; no surprise there. But one of the saddest of the songs, the fourth in the cycle, the one which opens with the line (here in English) "I often think that they have just stepped out / And that they will be coming home soon, ' features the major key of E-flat. The final song opens with D minor modality but shifts into the major prior to ending, to achieve a sense of transcendence: "In this weather, in this gale, in this windy storm, / they rest as if in their mother's house: / frightened by no storm, / sheltered by the Hand of God."

Transcendence is not necessarily happiness, and the children remain dead, no longer present in corporal form. Upon reflection the sadness is profound. So the argument can be made that major keys don't necessarily deliver one from sadness in music. And there are I suspect many other examples of the similar effect of the major mode to bring on a deep sadness, perhaps even a deeper one than the manipulative minor mode can force.

Simple physics likely will prove troublesome in explaining much of anything in the human emotional response to music or arts in general.


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## Luchesi (Mar 15, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> I recently spent some time revisiting the Mahler Kindertotenlieder. Rückert's original poems derived from his grief over the loss of two children from scarlet fever. The poet wrote these in the mid-1830s and never meant the verses for publication. They weren't published until the 1870s, some years after Rückert's death. Three years after Mahler composed the song cycle his daughter Maria died of scarlet fever, aged four. Mahler wrote to an acquaintance about his experience: "I placed myself in the situation that a child of mine _had_ died. When I really lost my daughter, I could not have written these songs any more."
> 
> The song cycle begins in D minor with the following two songs in C minor; no surprise there. But one of the saddest of the songs, the fourth in the cycle, the one which opens with the line (here in English) "I often think that they have just stepped out / And that they will be coming home soon, ' features the major key of E-flat. The final song opens with D minor modality but shifts into the major prior to ending, to achieve a sense of transcendence: "In this weather, in this gale, in this windy storm, / they rest as if in their mother's house: / frightened by no storm, / sheltered by the Hand of God."
> 
> ...


Good info. I need to get back to that famous work (and so many others that commenters remind me of).

The physics is simply that the minor third of a key is derived by multiplying the fundamental low key tone by six. For our brains to feel confident in determining whether it's a minor third or a major third (five times the fundamental) or the screwy minor seventh (seven times the fundamental) is asking a lot of our hearing (but obviously not impossible).

I assume it causes complex, unconscious feelings of unknowing, which are then interpreted along with our other experiences. Sadness, dread, foreboding.


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