# Are there any Chord charts for classical music?



## Taksu7 (May 16, 2010)

I am a Jazz pianist who is finally studying classical music after all these years. What currently interests me is in learning the way classical composers used chords, so I can improvise over them. 

Although I can and have been analyzing the changes myself from the scores, this job would be much easier if I could find some resource that has already done the work for me. esp interested in Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Beethoven's works for piano. 

Can anybody point me to something, somewhere? 

Many thanks.


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## Rasa (Apr 23, 2009)

They are infact the same chords as jazz chords, but they are distinct in which bass note is used, and how voice leading is done.


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

Google 'figured bass'
It only really applies to Baroque music though. I've never seen it in later styles.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Rasa said:


> They are infact the same chords as jazz chords, but they are distinct in which bass note is used, and how voice leading is done.


This isn't necessarily true -- the harmonic vocabulary for classical and jazz is quite different; generally, jazz has a menu of chords and progressions far richer than common-practice classical music, and a number of styles post-1930s regularly outdo even the expanded tonal vocabulary of the Impressionists.

Any good jazz chart will include slash notation to indicate inversion when necessary (e.g. a second inversion triad in figured bass (C64) would be rendered C/G in lead sheet shorthand). But you're right about voice-leading -- while jazz voice-leading isn't necessarily mandated, jazz arrangers and pianists tend to be quite meticulous about their chord-to-chord voice leading, even if strictures like "no parallel 5ths" are obviously not in play. And though some jazz doesn't place as much emphasis on complex or contrapuntally interesting bass lines, the majority of *good* jazz does. 

As for OP's question, no, there isn't really a resource for quick representation of progressions in specific classical pieces. The main reason for this is not because of any radical unsuitability of classical music to such a procedure, but because most of the repertoire wasn't written with the goal of providing a jumping off point for performers in an improvisational setting. That said, SuperTonic is absolutely right about figured bass being maybe something you would want to look at -- very different system than lead sheet notation, but with something of the same goal.

Some figured bass texts include practice exercise aimed at teaching common routines (cadences, sequences, etc) of classical music. This one may be a bit dated but might work: http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Met...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277263983&sr=1-1

I use this one with my students and it works well: http://www.amazon.com/New-Approach-...r_1_20?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277263994&sr=1-20

Now, these books won't help with specific pieces but will train your ear (and fingers) to notice and reproduce such patterns quickly and naturally. Also, there's the way I learned, which is just trying to pick up as much as possible by ear, and when that fails, take a score out of the library! Good luck TakSu!


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Taksu7 said:


> What currently interests me is in learning the way classical composers used chords, so I can improvise over them.


I think it is more a case of how they use _harmony_ rather than chords in the sense of 'changes' a la Jazz.



> esp interested in Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Beethoven's works for piano.


In Beethoven you will find yourself improvising largely over chords I, IV and V but doing it through different keys in the course of a piece. This is because those chords define _key_ in the classical period especially. It is the movement between keys that underpins the structure of the music. The chords (and also the melodies and motives) are there to give definition to the key structure.

Look at the E minor prelude of Chopin, very rich harmony but it is the use of suspensions and 7ths and the voice leading which are decorating what is essentially a straight forward progression. (I guess you could say that about any music really, including Jazz)

I'm afraid you'll have to do it the hard way.


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## Falstaft (Mar 27, 2010)

Petwhac said:


> I think it is more a case of how they use _harmony_ rather than chords in the sense of 'changes' a la Jazz.
> 
> In Beethoven you will find yourself improvising largely over chords I, IV and V but doing it through different keys in the course of a piece. This is because those chords define _key_ in the classical period especially. It is the movement between keys that underpins the structure of the music.


This is all true Petwhac, though I don't it serves to distinguish most jazz from most classical music. In the typical jazz standard, the core harmonic modules are various forms of the ii-V-I (an insubstantial difference b/t jazz and classical idiom is perhaps the preference of ii over IV, typical of popular music, but a predominant is a predominant is a predominant). Modulation (and rapid tonicization) is also a cornerstone to jazz, and the definition of key in a Cole Porter song need be no less sophisticated than a Beethoven sonata.



Petwhac said:


> The chords (and also the melodies and motives) are there to give definition to the key structure..


Quite the hard-line Schenkerian position! You may enjoy this famous jazz contrafact of the Chopin E-minor prelude


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Falstaft said:


> This is all true Petwhac, though I don't it serves to distinguish most jazz from most classical music. In the typical jazz standard, the core harmonic modules are various forms of the ii-V-I (an insubstantial difference b/t jazz and classical idiom is perhaps the preference of ii over IV, typical of popular music, but a predominant is a predominant is a predominant). Modulation (and rapid tonicization) is also a cornerstone to jazz, and the definition of key in a Cole Porter song need be no less sophisticated than a Beethoven sonata.
> 
> Quite the hard-line Schenkerian position! You may enjoy this famous jazz contrafact of the Chopin E-minor prelude


I don't believe that modulation is prevalent an jazz. I'm not absolutely sure what is meant by rapid tonicization but I am guessing that it refers to what's going on in a piece like Giant Steps - a quick succession of cadences in various keys.

I make a distinction between a structural modulation as in sonata form where it gives the composer the opportunity to generate_ transitions_, and say the middle 8 of a jazz standard which may be in a new key.

I did attempt to read Schenker once (zzzz) but I think he was trying to make the case for reducing every piece to one basic melodic 3-2-1 essence.

Thanks for the vid


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## Morris Billy (Jun 30, 2010)

We can define a guitar chord chart as a list of chord diagrams that

guides the guitarist in terms of where to place the fingers when he/she

wants to play a particular chord. Chord diagrams are visual depictions of

the guitar chord. With a Guitar Chord Chart, that the guitarist gets the

insight for a chord, which he or she might require for a show or concert
.

These charts are quite easy to read when the guitarist
has a good grip

on the basics.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I think your best bet would be to get a good book on harmony,such as the one by the American composer Walter Piston (1894-1976), which is considered just about the best book on the subject and has been used as a textbook in harmony classes for many years. 
Piston was not only a distinguished composer but an iimportant teacher who taught at Harvard for many years and taught many distinguished ocmposers,including Leonard Bernstein.
It's very clear and not so technical as to be intimidating. 
Check for it on amazon.com or other websites.


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## Taksu7 (May 16, 2010)

*thanks*

Thanks for all the replies everyone. What I'm after is composing and improvising Jazz in a way that puts back into the genre a little classical beauty. Too many Jazz players seem to think that every single chord and melody line must contain dissonance. I chords are not allowed with out some sort of extension, V chords "must" have an alteration, etc. "Soft" Jazz doesn't do the trick for me either, as it sounds too sappy for my taste.

Last few days I've been taking a very simple pc., Chopins Prelude in C and starting off like he wrote it, then playing it like Miles Davis might, then going back to the way it's written. I like to believe that were Chopin still alive he would give me his blessings, but I don't know this.


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