# Tough words!



## KenOC

Some word pairs in English are hard to sort out. In fact, there are a lot! Here's one:

"Fuchsia" and "fuschia". What's what? Be careful, because even the authorities seem confused on this one.

Do you have any word pairs that give you trouble?


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## Posie

I have always had trouble writing/typing the word "judgment" without the 'e' on the end of "judge". It feels like I'm writing/typing "jugg-ment".


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## PetrB

English is a complete b.a.s.t.a.r.d language, a mongrel of Anglo-Saxon, some Frisian Dutch, German, Scandinavian, Latin, Greek, French, Arabic and American Indian words  

Today, I learned that Fuschia is the plant, fuschia the color, like similar differences between Catholic and catholic -- or in music, Classical and classical.

I always loved the "I before E except after C" thingie, which does not take into account all those other words from other language bases where that rule just don't apply, and which go about it completely differently:

abseil 
beige
deign
dreidel
eight
either
freight
feign 
feint
geisha 
greige 
heigh-ho
heinous 
inveigh 
inveigle 
keister
leisure 
monteith 
neigh 
neighbo(u)r
neither
nonpareil 
peignoir
obeisance
reign 
rein
seine
seize
sheikh
skein
sleigh
surveillance
madeira 
weir 
weigh
weird
veil 
vein

to name but a handful, lol.


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## Mahlerian

Many people seem to have trouble with principle/principal and premiere/premier.

Principle: the underlying basis (The principle of the matter at hand)
Principal: the "main" (The principal matter at hand)

Premiere: the first performance (The premiere of the new work went well)
Premier: a chief officer (The premier went to hear the new work)


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## KenOC

PetrB, I suspect on further checking you'll find that Fuchsia (not fuschia) is the plant, named after the botanist Leonart Fuchs. Most sources seem to believe that the word "fuschia" used as either a plant or a color, is a misspelling of fuchsia.


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## Richannes Wrahms

PetrB said:


> Today, I learned that Fuschia is the color, fuschia the plant, like similar differences between Catholic and catholic, or in music, Classical and classical.


*Fuchsia* (named after German physician and botanist *Leonhard Fuchs*) is a genus, as such it should be capitalized!









Given that 'Fuschia' doesn't exist I'll take the freedom to define it as 1.'the characteristic coloration acquired by a butt when spanked at low temperatures' 2.'The sensation of meaning one perceives from the irreverent mumblings of a heavily medicated old man' :tiphat:


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## KenOC

Here's another: "further" and "farther", what's the difference. It took me a while to get to the bottom of this one.


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## PetrB

KenOC said:


> PetrB, I suspect on further checking you'll find that Fuchsia (not fuschia) is the plant, named after the botanist Leonart Fuchs. Most sources seem to believe that the word "fuschia" used as either a plant or a color, is a misspelling of fuchsia.


Unlearned, re-programmed. Thanks!

(I don't know if there is a term for those words spelled the same but where the meaning is different due to an upper case first letter... homonyms, they ain't.)


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## Ingélou

There are words that my students regularly confused: the verbs 'affect' (influence) and 'effect' (bring about), for example, and 'practise' (verb) & 'practice' (noun). You don't have the latter problem in American English, of course. Some students regularly wrote 'viscous' when they meant 'vicious', which added a certain interest to the meaning of their sentences.

But my favourite mistake was a sixth-former who handed in a typed essay on Seamus Heaney's 'Death of a Naturalist', a poem about a child shocked by the crudity of mating frogs. In my student's hands, the title became a tabloid headline about murder in a nudist camp - *DEATH OF A NATURIST*


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## Taggart

Capitonym

The list in the link also indicates where pronunciation changes e.g. Polish and polish or August and august.


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## elgar's ghost

I've always wondered how easy people from around the world have found English to learn compared to other European languages such as French and German? I have a friend from the Netherlands who can speak all three and he said compared to the other two English was probably the easiest in terms of learning the basics, but the subtleties that came with the intermediate and advanced stages were often extremely awkward and difficult to reconcile while trying to make sense of them. Obviously, being English I myself can't really appreciate this problem from the 'outside', but I'd be interested to hear how others found it.


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## Guest

enquiry
inquiry


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## LarryShone

KenOC said:


> Some word pairs in English are hard to sort out. In fact, there are a lot! Here's one:
> 
> "Fuchsia" and "fuschia". What's what? Be careful, because even the authorities seem confused on this one.
> 
> Do you have any word pairs that give you trouble?


As an amateur botanist and plant freak Im only aware of the first, named after the pioneering botanist Fuchs.


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## LarryShone

For me its practice and practise


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## brianvds

Richannes Wrahms said:


> *Fuchsia* (named after German physician and botanist *Leonhard Fuchs*) is a genus, as such it should be capitalized!


To add to the confusion, people tend to pronounce it "Few-sia" when "Fooch-sia" would probably be more correct. (Though I notice that Wikipedia also suggests "fewsia"! It's a bit like English speakers pronouncing that famous artist's surname as "Van Go.") As for the spelling, the proper convention in biology is that genus and species names are written in italics (or underlined), with the genus name beginning with a capital letter and the species name all in lower case. Thus, for example, _Fuchsia triphylla_. I have yet to read a newspaper that ever gets this right.



KenOC said:


> Here's another: "further" and "farther", what's the difference. It took me a while to get to the bottom of this one.


As far as I could work out, in British English only "further" is used.

And then of course, there is the infamous triumvirate of their, they're and there. For some reason, it is almost exclusively native English speakers that get them wrong.


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## TurnaboutVox

marinasabina said:


> I have always had trouble writing/typing the word "judgment" without the 'e' on the end of "judge". It feels like I'm writing/typing "jugg-ment".


And in fact in British English it is judgement - you've only today drawn my attention to the fact that in America the terminal 'e' from the root 'judge' is left off (this difference between American and British English seems true for other nouns formed in the same way). Apparently the English word came from the mediaeval French 'Jugement'.

Another troublesome pair (on this forum anyway) seems to be 'Weber' and 'Webern'!


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## sospiro

brianvds said:


> ... And then of course, there is the infamous triumvirate of their, they're and there. For some reason, it is almost exclusively native English speakers that get them wrong.


It's because those people whose second language is English are usually taught the difference. Unfortunately, in schools today, grammar, spelling and punctuation are not considered important.


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## Cosmos

I still don't fully understand affect vs. effect. 
And I think the hardest word for me to remember to spell correctly is "necessary"


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## sospiro

'Flammable' and 'inflammable' mean the same thing.


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## hpowders

Cosmos said:


> I still don't fully understand affect vs. effect.
> And I think the hardest word for me to remember to spell correctly is "necessary"


Quite an effective post. It affected me deeply. :tiphat:


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## Ingélou

Cosmos said:


> I still don't fully understand affect vs. effect.
> And I think the hardest word for me to remember to spell correctly is "necessary"


At a school I taught at once a student told me a tip she'd been told for remembering it - '*N*ever *E*at *C*ake, *E*at *S*ardine *S*andwiches *A*nd *R*emain *Y*oung'. Every time I tell someone that, they claim it's as hard to remember as the actual spelling - but you know, it isn't. Of course, I don't eat sardine sandwiches, so I'm ageing normally. 
At the same school I learned the tip for remembering camels (mega important!  ) - the Bactrian, with two humps, looks like a B on its side, and the Dromedary, with one hump, looks like a D on its side.


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## hpowders

Mahlerian said:


> Many people seem to have trouble with principle/principal and premiere/premier.
> 
> Principle: the underlying basis (The principle of the matter at hand)
> Principal: the "main" (The principal matter at hand)
> 
> Premiere: the first performance (The premiere of the new work went well)
> Premier: a chief officer (The premier went to hear the new work)


Well as a HS teacher I was often summoned to the principal's office as a matter of principle, so the distinction was drilled into me.


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## hpowders

sospiro said:


> 'Flammable' and 'inflammable' mean the same thing.


Yes. MY SO is foreign-born. Flammable vs. inflammable frequently comes up and whenever I explain it, I always get the same puzzled expression.


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## sospiro

The pupils at this school have the advantage over some of their friends who attend other schools.

What better way to understand the rules of the apostrophe than with the name of your own school.


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## Headphone Hermit

​confused .... why is it difficult to understand the meaning of some of the examples given above?

There *are* dictionaries!


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## Taggart

Headphone Hermit said:


> There *are* dictionaries!


There are indeed; Dr Johnson provided these definitions:

*Network*: Any thing reticulated or decussated, at equal distances, with interstices between the intersections.

*Reticulated*: Made of network; formed with interstitial vacuities.

It is no wonder that some find them less than useful.


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## Headphone Hermit

Taggart said:


> There are indeed; Dr Johnson provided these definitions:
> 
> *Network*: Any thing reticulated or decussated, at equal distances, with interstices between the intersections.
> 
> *Reticulated*: Made of network; formed with interstitial vacuities.
> 
> It is no wonder that some find them less than useful.


hahaha! Yes, quite!

One might suppose there has been an improvement since the C18th in the quality of definitions provided by good-quality dictionaries ..... cue a plethora of tortological monstrosities


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## Varick

drank and drunk are the ones that always get me. Both are past tense, but I never remember which one to use for which scenario.

And I have no idea what a "past participle" is. Actually I don't know what a "participle" is.

SEE KIDS: It doesn't pay to be the class clown in 8th grade English classes. You don't learn [email protected]!

V


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## brianvds

Taggart said:


> There are indeed; Dr Johnson provided these definitions:
> 
> *Network*: Any thing reticulated or decussated, at equal distances, with interstices between the intersections.
> 
> *Reticulated*: Made of network; formed with interstitial vacuities.
> 
> It is no wonder that some find them less than useful.


Reminds me of biology lessons at school, where we learned that the kidney is bean-shaped, while the bean is kidney-shaped.


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## brianvds

Varick said:


> drank and drunk are the ones that always get me. Both are past tense, but I never remember which one to use for which scenario.
> 
> And I have no idea what a "past participle" is. Actually I don't know what a "participle" is.
> 
> SEE KIDS: It doesn't pay to be the class clown in 8th grade English classes. You don't learn [email protected]!
> 
> V


I have never been able to make head or tail of formal descriptions of grammar. If I can see a few examples, I can usually make sense and learn how words are used, or sentences constructed. I have no idea what a participle is either, and I'm not sure I'm interested. 

(Isn't a participle someone who participates in an event? )


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## KenOC

brianvds said:


> (Isn't a participle someone who participates in an event? )


You may be thinking of a parsnipitant.


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## Varick

KenOC said:


> You may be thinking of a parsnipitant.


Yes but they only participate in gardening and cooking.

V


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## Andreas

Some words I occasionally trip over:

Mich*ea*l

intr*ui*ging

sep*e*rate


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## Ingélou

Even more confusing, Mich*ea*l is often correct for Irish Michaels, too. 
My idol, eighteenth-century Scots fiddler N*ie*l Gow spelled his name in that way.


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## Sloe

Since my native language don´t have voiced s sound I had difficulties with price and prize.


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## brianvds

Sloe said:


> Since my native language don´t have voiced s sound I had difficulties with price and prize.


What's your native language?


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## LarryShone

You should try the russian language. Its letters are all phonetic. Very odd.
(In russian thats Веру од)


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## KenOC

Andreas said:


> Some words I occasionally trip over:
> 
> Mich*ea*l
> 
> intr*ui*ging
> 
> sep*e*rate


Re the last, I remember hearing "It's probably 'a' unless you're truly desperate."


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## Tristan

I still get "capitol" and "capital" confused sometimes >.<


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## LarryShone

As far as I know capitol is a record label!


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## Posie

TurnaboutVox said:


> And in fact in British English it is judgement - you've only today drawn my attention to the fact that in America the terminal 'e' from the root 'judge' is left off (this difference between American and British English seems true for other nouns formed in the same way). Apparently the English word came from the mediaeval French 'Jugement'.


I *knew* I had seen judgement spelled correctly in some contexts. It's good to know that I am not losing it.


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## Posie

Tristan said:


> I still get "capitol" and "capital" confused sometimes >.<


There is a funny remedy for that.

What do people say while looking up at the dome of a capitol? "O(h)!"


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## sospiro

_Enquire_ and _inquire_ have similar meanings and I'm never sure which one is correct.

Usage

The traditional distinction between enquire and inquire is that enquire is used for general senses of 'ask' while inquire is reserved for uses meaning 'make a formal investigation'. In practice, however, there is little discernible distinction in the way the two words are used today in British English, although inquiry is commoner than enquiry in the sense 'a formal investigation'. In all senses inquire and inquiry are the more usual forms in US English, whereas enquire and enquiry are chiefly restricted to British English.


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## Taggart

sospiro said:


> _Enquire_ and _inquire_ have similar meanings and I'm never sure which one is correct.


I tend to think of an *I*nquest as an *I*nquiry into a cause of death and part of police inquiries.

I enquire _about _something but make inquiries _into_.


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## Ingélou

marinasabina said:


> I have always had trouble writing/typing the word "judgment" without the 'e' on the end of "judge". It feels like I'm writing/typing "jugg-ment".





TurnaboutVox said:


> And in fact in British English it is judgement - you've only today drawn my attention to the fact that in America the terminal 'e' from the root 'judge' is left off (this difference between American and British English seems true for other nouns formed in the same way). Apparently the English word came from the mediaeval French 'Jugement'.
> 
> Another troublesome pair (on this forum anyway) seems to be 'Weber' and 'Webern'!





marinasabina said:


> I *knew* I had seen judgement spelled correctly in some contexts. It's good to know that I am not losing it.


Fascinating exchange. :tiphat: :tiphat: 
Being British, I was brought up to write 'judg*e*ment' and never knew there was another form. Then when I was in my teens I watched an American crime drama - I think it was the serial 'Perry Mason' starring Raymond Burr - and one of the ways the good guy used to identify the writer of a significant letter was the fact that he used 'judg*e*ment' rather than 'judgment'. After that I looked it up and found they were alternative spellings and decided that 'judgment' looked more distinctive. But my computer is giving me little red wiggly lines as I write.

Another word with alternative spellings is 'jewellery'; since discovering that I've always used 'jewelry' - it's more direct, imo, and somehow more 'medieval'. Think golden caskets & presents to princesses. But again, Computer say 'tut': 'jewelry' earns me another red wiggly line.


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## Ingélou

One thing that I've never mastered is the difference between verbs in -ize and -ise. Am I right in saying that American English favours -ize? 
In http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/british-and-american-spelling it says - *There are several areas in which British and American spelling are different. The differences often come about because British English has tended to keep the spelling of words it has absorbed from other languages (e.g. French), while American English has adapted the spelling to reflect the way that the words actually sound when they're spoken.*

Once again, when I was in my teens - I was a swot & old fashioned but rebellious with it - I decided to apply *Occam's Razor* and use -ise *all the time*, and then I'd never be confused and I'd never be incorrect. So I did, and now I have even less idea of which words have the -ize ending.

Oh, I think Ukko ticked me off once for using 'realise' when according to him it should be 'realize'. 
But *honni soit qui mal y pense!*


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## MagneticGhost

Cosmos said:


> I still don't fully understand affect vs. effect.
> And I think the hardest word for me to remember to spell correctly is "necessary"


The Priest said it was necessary for him to remember to wear 1 Cassock and 2 Socks. (C - SS) -- or something like that.


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## SiegendesLicht

elgars ghost said:


> I've always wondered how easy people from around the world have found English to learn compared to other European languages such as French and German? I have a friend from the Netherlands who can speak all three and he said compared to the other two English was probably the easiest in terms of learning the basics, but the subtleties that came with the intermediate and advanced stages were often extremely awkward and difficult to reconcile while trying to make sense of them. Obviously, being English I myself can't really appreciate this problem from the 'outside', but I'd be interested to hear how others found it.


I would agree with your friend, except for one thing: the spelling and pronunciation,which should be learned right at the start, can be confusing in English too. Apart from that, English is easy enough to master to a level of everyday conversation. That is what makes it such a good candidate to a universal language, compared to German or Russian where in order to make any coherent sentence you have to learn several quite complicated grammatical points first. Getting to the advanced levels: idioms, various styles, professional vocabulary, is complicated in any language.


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## Mahlerian

Ingélou said:


> One thing that I've never mastered is the difference between verbs in -ize and -ise. Am I right in saying that American English favours -ize?


Yes, and we write defense and offense rather than defence and offence.

The judgment/judgement thing has confused me in the past, too. Once, I was writing an essay for philosophy, and following the spelling of the Hume essay I was reading, I ended up using judgement throughout my paper; when it came back to me, the professor told me that it was wrong and I needed to use judgment instead...


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## sospiro

*illicit* - adjective
forbidden by law, rules, or custom

*elicit* - verb
evoke or draw out (a reaction, answer, or fact) from someone

Pronunciation is almost the same but very different meanings


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## KenOC

Nobody's taken up farther and further? They're different...


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## Taggart

KenOC said:


> Nobody's taken up farther and further? They're different...


One might say that it's far too complicated which gives the clue. Far has two meanings - far from - relating to distance and far - relating to time or as an intensifier. When you wish to make a comparison, the form changes according to meaning. If we wish to compare the distances of London and Glasgow we could say that London is farther south than Glasgow.If we wish to say that a plan requires much more study we would say the plan requires further study. We also have further education.

The same thing applies to the superlative form - the farthest planet from the sun or furthest along in my studies.

We can see the metaphorical use of furthest in "furthest from my mind".

This doesn't always work. Do you say I am further into this book or farther into this book? Both are possible - farther would mean more pages; further would mean more of the story. Then you get some oddities - a guard will tell you to move further down the train i.e. more into the train but you tend to say that the dining car is farther down the train thinking in terms of distance.

Then there is their use as verbs. One generally furthers a cause although the OED also admits farther as a possibility. The derived noun, however, is furtherance.

Do you wonder that people have avoided the topic or that they are confused by it?


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## Ingélou

An admirable answer, in my unbiased opinion - further than that, a man could not go.


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## Andreas

Taggart said:


> One might say that it's far too complicated which gives the clue. Far has two meanings - far from - relating to distance and far - relating to time or as an intensifier. When you wish to make a comparison, the form changes according to meaning. If we wish to compare the distances of London and Glasgow we could say that London is farther south than Glasgow.If we wish to say that a plan requires much more study we would say the plan requires further study. We also have further education.
> 
> The same thing applies to the superlative form - the farthest planet from the sun or furthest along in my studies.
> 
> We can see the metaphorical use of furthest in "furthest from my mind".
> 
> This doesn't always work. Do you say how I am further into this book or farther into this book? Both are possible - farther would mean more pages; further would mean more of the story. Then you get some oddities - a guard will tell you to move further down the train i.e. more into the train but you tend to say that the dining car is farther down the train thinking in terms of distance.
> 
> Then there is their use as verbs. One generally furthers a cause although the OED also admits farther as a possibility. The derived noun, however, is furtherance.
> 
> Do you wonder that people have avoided the topic or that they are confused by it?


So would you say that further generally implies a continuation of a motion/action? Whereas farther has more of a comparative quality?


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## BRHiler

The ones I see butchered every day are, at least in my opinion, simple. But go anywhere and you will see these "two" words misused constantly

To
Too
Two

There
Their
They're


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## brianvds

KenOC said:


> Nobody's taken up farther and further? They're different...


As far as I could work out, only in American English.


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## Taggart

Andreas said:


> So would you say that further generally implies a continuation of a motion/action? Whereas farther has more of a comparative quality?


No. They're both comparatives. Look at further down the train that's comparative just like farther. Because further (generally) has a metaphorical sense it is sometimes difficult to say exactly. If I say I have read more of a book than you, I can say I am further *or *farther into the book. Both function as comparatives: one in the sense of pages (farther) and one in terms of plot or story (farther).

Obviously further education implies a continuation yet it also means more advanced (i.e. comparative) education. A further stage will always have that dual meaning.



brianvds said:


> As far as I could work out, only in American English.


I think the reverse. American English has removed the distinction to "simplify" matters. British English, being more precise, preserves the distinction.


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## Tristan

As far as I know, "further" is an older word and is the original comparative of "far" and thus covers a wider range of meanings. "Farther" came later and doesn't cover as much meaning, but almost every meaning that "farther" covers, "further" can also cover.


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## Posie

SiegendesLicht said:


> That is what makes it such a good candidate to a universal language, compared to German or Russian where in order to make any coherent sentence you have to learn several quite complicated grammatical points first.


It's no wonder that German speakers pause mid-sentence so frequently. Even they must take a moment to figure it out. 

I know... We English speakers are almost as bad. To me, speaking Spanish is like trying to sing a whole verse of a hymn without stopping for breath.


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## LarryShone

BRHiler said:


> The ones I see butchered every day are, at least in my opinion, simple. But go anywhere and you will see these "two" words misused constantly
> 
> To
> Too
> Two
> 
> There
> Their
> They're


This drives me round the bend, especially on facebook. As well as the use of 'seen' where it should be 'saw'
What happened to these people's education?


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## PetrB

Taggart said:


> Capitonym
> 
> The list in the link also indicates where pronunciation changes e.g. Polish and polish or August and august.


Aha! Of course and but how totally logical -- _Capitonym._ 
Nice one... thanks.


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## PetrB

sospiro said:


> *illicit* - adjective
> forbidden by law, rules, or custom
> 
> *elicit* - verb
> evoke or draw out (a reaction, answer, or fact) from someone
> 
> Pronunciation is almost the same but very different meanings


*bury*, *berry*, and the name *Barry*.

*bow*, lean the body forward from the waist / *bow* and arrow / *bough*.


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## PetrB

BRHiler said:


> The ones I see butchered every day are, at least in my opinion, simple. But go anywhere and you will see these "two" words misused constantly
> 
> To
> Too
> Two
> 
> There
> Their
> They're


Ooh, but you're forgetting your / you're!








Lol, Your Bad, dude


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## Headphone Hermit

LarryShone said:


> What happened to these people's education?


Them people was learnt wrong


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## Ingélou

PetrB said:


> Ooh, but you're forgetting your / you're!
> 
> View attachment 50397
> 
> Lol, Your Bad, dude


 Shouldn't it be *you're* bad?


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## PetrB

Ingélou said:


> Shouldn't it be *you're* bad?


My bad; his bad; her bad; your bad -- get with the program, chica!


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## Headphone Hermit

Ingélou said:


> Shouldn't it be *you're* bad?


Is you gonna say him what him got them wrong - isn't it!


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## Mahlerian

PetrB said:


> Ooh, but you're forgetting your / you're!


I understand where that one comes from. In most other contexts, an apostrophe signals possession, but in this one case, it doesn't, and not having one does.

Anyway, more fun with apostrophes!

Brahm's Symphony No. 1 in C minor

(Who is Brahm, and why did he write the same key first symphony as Brahms?)

It should be Brahms', or Brahms's, although the latter looks funny to most people, and doesn't represent the way most people would say it.


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## LarryShone

Headphone Hermit said:


> Them people was learnt wrong


The people just don't care and neither do their neglectful parents! And these people have kids themselves! More uneducated masses.
Some people aren't stupid, they're just uneducated. And some are just stupid!


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## PetrB

LarryShone said:


> The people just don't care and neither do their neglectful parents! And these people have kids themselves! More uneducated masses.
> Some people aren't stupid, they're just uneducated. And some are just stupid!


LOL. Many of the children of those same parents have been given deliberately misspelled names, others are saddled with seriously odd confabulations of what their parents thought were genuine "African / Arabic" names -- all so the child will marked as and feel 'unique.'

"Hi! I'm Charity, but that's spelled with two e's at the end (Charitee.)
"Hi! I'm Jason, but that is spelled J-a-y-c-e-n."

All that happens to those so named is that they get a steady stream of subtle and less than subtle input that their parents were ignorant souls who could not spell properly, and / or those parents were gravely pretentious twits who really knew what would life that much more constantly awkward for their kid.

Any time someone tells me of their 'specially spelled / spelt' name, I tell them it was unfortunate their parents could not spell, and then I give them my permission to change it


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## PetrB

License. \ˈlī-sən(t)s\ _What up wid dat?_

ditto for:

Incense ~ that aromatic stuff. 
Incensed ~ outraged; very angry.


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## Huilunsoittaja

"Occasion" is such a bother for me, especially when it's a relatively common word in my vocabulary. I almost always type/write ocassion and then have to go back and fix it.


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## PetrB

I've noticed these pairs are often misunderstood or misused:

_*fastidious*_ and _*meticulous*_

_*complacent*_ and _*acquiescent.*_

_*lie*_ and _*lay*_
Lay / laid -- requires an object. "Now I lay me down to sleep," I laid the silverware down on the table (colloquially, "I laid the table.")

Lie, Lied.
I need a bit of rest; I'm going to lie down for a few moments. I lied down for a few moments because I needed some rest.

But then we have:
*lie 1*
lī/
verb
verb: lie; 3rd person present: lies; past tense: lay; gerund or present participle: lying; past participle: lain

1.
(of a person or animal) be in or assume a horizontal or resting position on a supporting surface.
"the man lay face downward on the grass"
synonyms:	recline, lie down, lie back, be recumbent, be prostrate, be supine, be prone, be stretched out, sprawl, rest, repose, lounge, loll
"he was lying on a bed"
antonyms:	stand
(of a thing) rest flat on a surface.
"a book lay open on the table"
synonyms:	be placed, be situated, be positioned, rest
"her handbag lay on a chair"
(of a dead person) be buried in a particular place.
2.
be, remain, or be kept in a specified state.
"the church lies in ruins today"
(of something abstract) reside or be found.
"the solution lies in a return to "traditional family values.""
synonyms:	consist, be inherent, be present, be contained, exist, reside
"the difficulty lies in building real quality into the products"
3.
(of a place) be situated in a specified position or direction.
"the small town of Swampscott lies about ten miles north of Boston"
synonyms:	be situated, be located, be placed, be found, be sited
"lying on the border of Switzerland and Austria"
(of a scene) extend from the observer's viewpoint in a specified direction.
"stand here, and all of Amsterdam lies before you"
4.
Law
(of an action, charge, or claim) be admissible or sustainable.

noun
noun: lie

1.
the way, direction, or position in which something lies.

*lie 2*
lī/
noun
noun: lie; plural noun: lies

1.
an intentionally false statement.
"Mungo felt a pang of shame at telling Alice a lie"
synonyms:	untruth, falsehood, fib, fabrication, deception, invention, fiction, piece of fiction, falsification

*English has more words than any other language!
A Thesaurus may be unique to the English language... the other languages having that many less words, there was no need / interest in creating a Thesaurus for those languages.*


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## Taggart

PetrB said:


> LOL. Many of the children of those same parents have been given deliberately misspelled names, others are saddled with seriously odd confabulations of what their parents thought were genuine "African / Arabic" names -- all so the child will marked as and feel 'unique.'
> 
> "Hi! I'm Charity, but that's spelled with two e's at the end (Charitee.)
> "Hi! I'm Jason, but that is spelled J-a-y-c-e-n."
> 
> All that happens to those so named is that they get a steady stream of subtle and less than subtle input that their parents were ignorant souls who could not spell properly, and / or those parents were gravely pretentious twits who really knew what would life that much more constantly awkward for their kid.
> 
> Any time someone tells me of their 'specially spelled / spelt' name, I tell them it was unfortunate their parents could not spell, and then I give them my permission to change it


Sometimes there can be a good reason for the name:


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## Tristan

Another example:

I used to get "passed" and "past" confused, as in "we walked past the house" or "we passed the house when we were walking". >.<


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## Mahlerian

Tristan said:


> Another example:
> 
> I used to get "passed" and "past" confused, as in "we walked past the house" or "we passed the house when we were walking". >.<


Well, fortunately you've passed that stage and its time is past, right?


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## Headphone Hermit

PetrB said:


> LOL. Many of the children of those same parents have been given deliberately misspelled names, others are saddled with seriously odd confabulations of what their parents thought were genuine "African / Arabic" names -- all so the child will marked as and feel 'unique.'
> 
> "Hi! I'm Charity, but that's spelled with two e's at the end (Charitee.)
> "Hi! I'm Jason, but that is spelled J-a-y-c-e-n."
> 
> All that happens to those so named is that they get a steady stream of subtle and less than subtle input that their parents were ignorant souls who could not spell properly, and / or those parents were gravely pretentious twits who really knew what would life that much more constantly awkward for their kid.
> 
> Any time someone tells me of their 'specially spelled / spelt' name, I tell them it was unfortunate their parents could not spell, and then I give them my permission to change it


Two examples I heard in the course of my work last year:
1. a child called *Millwall* (Chelsea is a famous London football team, Millwall is a less famous London football team)
2. a child called *Hennessey* (sic) with a sister called *Tia Maria* - named after their parent's favourite alcoholic drinks .... maybe a third child will be called something like *Pot Noodle*?

Poor children - it isn't their fault their parents chose such names


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## LarryShone

What about Frank Zappa naming his child Moon Unit!


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## Andreas

Is there a difference in meaning between "a while" and "awhile"? I didn't even know "awhile" existed until I bought Pet Sounds, which has that wonderful instrumental Let's Go Away For Awhile on it.


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## LarryShone

I think awhile as a word is old English, no longer used (like connexion rather than connection)
Wilson and co may have misused 'a while'
Lot of drug taking back then


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## Headphone Hermit

Andreas said:


> Is there a difference in meaning between "a while" and "awhile"? I didn't even know "awhile" existed until I bought Pet Sounds, which has that wonderful instrumental Let's Go Away For Awhile on it.


'awhile' is an adverb, while 'while' has a number of functions


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## elgar's ghost

PetrB said:


> Ooh, but you're forgetting your / you're!
> 
> View attachment 50397
> 
> Lol, Your Bad, dude


Doesn't exactly say much for the tattooist either - perhaps he had to ask the customer how to spell it.


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## elgar's ghost

LarryShone said:


> I think awhile as a word is old English, no longer used (like connexion rather than connection)
> Wilson and co may have misused 'a while'
> Lot of drug taking back then


Fairport Convention wrote a song called Walk Awhile in 1970 - I'd say the word is a somewhat archaic but hasn't totally fallen into obscurity.


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## Ingélou

Headphone Hermit said:


> 'awhile' is an adverb, while 'while' has a number of functions


For example, in York, my childhood home, 'while' has the dialectal meaning of 'until'. An announcement at York Railway Station, 'Do not board while the train is moving' had to be altered because it was downright dangerous!


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## Headphone Hermit

and over this side of the Pennines, too - _'Wait while yer dad gets home'_ - was a fearsome threat!


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## KenOC

Used in another forum here a bit ago: "baited breath". Only allowed in season, I suppose.


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## Badinerie

Right now I'm have trouble with the words "Tedious" and "Pedantic"......


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## LarryShone

There's a horrible neologism going around. Bae as a trendy replacement for babe,the a and e being a diphthong but I guess the young uns don't know what that is!


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## Headphone Hermit

Badinerie said:


> Right now I'm have trouble with the words "Tedious" and "Pedantic"......


Are they being 'pedantic'? ..... I though they were being 'precise' :devil:


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## drpraetorus

how about affect and effect?

These two are not closely pronounced or spelled, but it seems like most people, even supposedly well educated and trained speakers of English treat them as interchangeable. Less and Fewer. It's almost as bad as the execrable "I seen". We need English teachers like the Latin teacher in "Life of Brian".


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## Taggart




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## KenOC

Headphone Hermit said:


> Are they being 'pedantic'? ..... I though they were being 'precise' :devil:


Precise is when I correct you. Pedantic is when you correct me.


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## KenOC

Gage and gauge? Just askin'


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## Taggart

KenOC said:


> Gage and gauge? Just askin'


Some would say there is no difference nowadays.

Gage had the old meaning of a pledge to ensure you would do something. Scott (_Fair Maid of Perth_) uses it in its second and similar sense : "A gauntlet flung down is a gage of knightly battle."

Gauge means both the act of measuring and the instrument with which you measure it. There are some entertaining specialties - the railway gauge; the vector field gauge or translation of maßstab; the weather gage or having the advantage of an enemy by means of a better wind (sailing ships).


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## Ingélou

KenOC said:


> Precise is when I correct you. Pedantic is when you correct me.


'Perjink' is when anybody ventures to correct a Scot.


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## Badinerie

I have a friend called Jack who is an airline pilot. When I was boarding a plane for Spain last year I recognised him entering the cockpit so I shouted "Hi Jack"....I never did get to Spain, but I did make a new friend who was into Marigolds.


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## SiegendesLicht

Headphone Hermit said:


> Two examples I heard in the course of my work last year:
> 1. a child called *Millwall* (Chelsea is a famous London football team, Millwall is a less famous London football team)
> 2. a child called *Hennessey* (sic) with a sister called *Tia Maria* - named after their parent's favourite alcoholic drinks .... maybe a third child will be called something like *Pot Noodle*?
> 
> Poor children - it isn't their fault their parents chose such names


Not long ago I read an article about German child-naming traditions, particularly the fact that any strange/exotic names have to be officially approved by the local civil registration office, in order to prevent irresponsible parents from giving their children freaky names. The comment section was chock full of indignant Americans saying: "Thank God I live in America where I have the freedom to name my child ANYTHING I want!" Just sayin'...


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## KenOC

Seen misused a bit around here:

Flout and flaunt
Peek or peak for pique (as in interest, not a fit thereof)


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## Taggart

If you've got it, flaunt it even it it means flouting the rules.

I had a peek at Pikes Peak and it piqued my interest in going to Colorado.


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## Mahlerian

But perhaps the writer's interest has indeed "peaked", and it's all downhill from here...


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## Figleaf

Headphone Hermit said:


> Two examples I heard in the course of my work last year:
> 1. a child called *Millwall* (Chelsea is a famous London football team, Millwall is a less famous London football team)
> 2. a child called *Hennessey* (sic) with a sister called *Tia Maria* - named after their parent's favourite alcoholic drinks .... maybe a third child will be called something like *Pot Noodle*?
> 
> Poor children - it isn't their fault their parents chose such names


That's brilliant- I thought Chelsea was the most downmarket baby name ever until I heard 'Millwall'!

Do the parents of Tia Maria know that Tia means 'aunt'? Seems an odd choice.

I did once encounter a child called (so I thought) Portia, a fine Shakespearian name- then I saw that her parents were spelling it Porsche!


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## KenOC

SiegendesLicht said:


> The comment section was chock full of indignant Americans saying: "Thank God I live in America where I have the freedom to name my child ANYTHING I want!" Just sayin'...


Be glad you aren't one of the Zappa children: Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan, and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen.


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## elgar's ghost

KenOC said:


> Be glad you aren't one of the Zappa children: Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan, and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen.


I usually blanch at the ridiculous and pretentious names children are given but for some reason with Zappa's kids it makes a strange kind of sense - perhaps because some Zappa band personnel were re-named in a similar fashion.


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## brianvds

Figleaf said:


> I did once encounter a child called (so I thought) Portia, a fine Shakespearian name- then I saw that her parents were spelling it Porsche!


Here in Dark Africa you see plenty such unfortunate misspellings, as well as plain weird names. E.g. I once met a lady with the rather strange name of Rouletter.

And then the misspellings (I work as school teacher, so I get to see plenty of lists of names). One kid's second name is Ignecious (presumably should have been Ignatius). And then there is a girl with the grand old English name of Dorcas. Except her parents chose to spell it Dorcus.


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## Marsden

"Farther" always refers to physical distance. 
"Further" can mean just about anything. 
Although, we've all heard the phrase "farther along..." referring to argument.

"Capitol" refers to two things: a hill or a building.


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## KenOC

Marsden;754018"Capitol" refers to two things: a hill or a building.[/QUOTE said:


> Both Washington DC and Seattle have Capitol Hills. Are there others?


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## Marsden

The original one is in Rome ('Capitoline Hill').


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## SiegendesLicht

KenOC said:


> Be glad you aren't one of the Zappa children: Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Emuukha Rodan, and Diva Thin Muffin Pigeen.


When I have kids of my own, I am going to give them _very_ traditional, beautiful names (which ones, depends on where they will be born), and none of this modern freakishness.


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## KenOC

Marsden said:


> The original one is in Rome ('Capitoline Hill').


Ah, thanks, that escaped me, somehow. Happens a lot these days!


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## KenOC

What's the difference between whine and whinge? Just country of origin? I don't think whinge is used in the US... ? And my spell check says it's wrong.


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## Marsden

Yeah, 'whinge' isn't used in the USA anymore; only in the UK (and doubtless other Commonwealth countries). Sort of like 'while' and 'whilst'...


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## elgar's ghost

Whingeing is a popular word in Australia - usually when they accuse us Poms of it. :lol:


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