# Andrew Lloyd Webber



## Cortision (Aug 4, 2009)

I have a CD of some of Webber's biggest hits. My reaction on listening to it ranges from 'this is sappy, sugary, horrible stuff', to 'this is beautiful'. I think he has enormous talent for melody, but perhaps not a whole lot else. But I don't think he is alone as a composer by having brilliant melodies but with other aspects perhaps lacking. I have heard this criticism applied to opera composers such as Puccini or Donizetti, so it doesn't preclude the possibility that he may have his own kind of greatness.

So what do you think of Andrew Lloyd Webber - Should he be shot, or celebrated?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I secretly like his Requiem, but I hardly ever admit it in public. I love the idea of synthesizer and drum kit used in an orchestra and I get a big kick out hearing Plácido Domingo rock out in the Sanctus: Hosanna - Benedictus segment.

However, as "musical theater" is one of the most egregious evil things in the whole universe to me, I can scarcely abide anything else he has done. I guess I am glad at least that _Jesus Christ Superstar_ got Ian Gillan some notoriety before he joined Deep Purple.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Nope, don't like him. He should not be thought of a composer in the classical context. He writes musicals.


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## Praine (Dec 20, 2008)

To answer your question, he should be shot.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Reign of Praine said:


> To answer your question, he should be shot.


That may not be entirely necessary as he was just diagnosed with cancer.

Obviously, the man does not deserve to die for writing gut-wrenchingly trite music, but I really do not consider him a "composer." He writes for the musical theater, an area of the arts I avoid at all costs. People who listen to him who think they are culturally informed are the ones who need to be shot.


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## Cortision (Aug 4, 2009)

Tapkaara said:


> Nope, don't like him. He should not be thought of a composer in the classical context. He writes musicals.


Hey, there's a reason I posted this thread in the 'non-classical music' forum. 
Come on, there must be someone out there who wants to defend him...


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Cortision said:


> Hey, there's a reason I posted this thread in the 'non-classical music' forum.
> Come on, there must be someone out there who wants to defend him...


Well, that you created this thread in the "non-classical" section of the forum is spot on! You are correct, sir!

But you did ask the classical forum what you thought of him, so don't be too surprised if you get more answers like mine.

I'm sure the guy has a facile talent when it comes to writing high-end show tunes, but I think his melodies are over-wrought and flimsy. I am just not into this sort of thing.

But if you find value and a good time in his music, please don't little old me rain on your parade. "To each his own!" said the farmer as he kissed the cow. We all have our little cows, don't we?


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

come on, guys. he writes fun stuff better than we can. i always enjoy superstar, joseph, phantom, and some of cats

dj


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Ok, let's see. He is to music what Thomas Kinkade is to painting. 

How's that?


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## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

You obviously misspelled the title. Perhaps you meant von Weber? Or Webern? Surely not Webber...

On a more serious note, the guy's pretty good at writing musicals, I even enjoyed his Phantom of the Opera quite some time ago. Doesn't interest me at all nowadays though. Also, musical can be a bridge to operetta, and the latter can be a bridge to opera and classical music.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

Weston said:


> Ok, let's see. He is to music what Thomas Kinkade is to painting.
> 
> How's that?


Is there an award for analogy of the year? Excuse me TC admin, Weston deserves it RIGHT NOW for this quote.

I bow to your greatness, o perceptive one!!!!


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

david johnson said:


> come on, guys. he writes fun stuff better than we can. i always enjoy superstar, joseph, phantom, and some of cats
> 
> dj


Better than we do? Don't sell the members of this forum short!


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay, that's a little strange to be saying in this forum. I kind of took composition as one of my majors, so I believe I can write at the very least better than him. And that isn't saying much at all. He orchestrates like a chimp, his melodies are monotonous and have no personal emotion injected into them (at least that I can see). Even mentioning such a hypocrite (my honest opinion) of a composer was bound to garner a rant from me. Actually, I'm beginning to think you just like it when I rant It is kind of fun to do...


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Cortision said:


> I have a CD of some of Webber's biggest hits. My reaction on listening to it ranges from 'this is sappy, sugary, horrible stuff', to 'this is beautiful'. I think he has enormous talent for melody, but perhaps not a whole lot else. But I don't think he is alone as a composer by having brilliant melodies but with other aspects perhaps lacking. I have heard this criticism applied to opera composers such as Puccini or Donizetti, so it doesn't preclude the possibility that he may have his own kind of greatness.
> 
> So what do you think of Andrew Lloyd Webber - Should he be shot, or celebrated?


Let him be celebrated by his admirers and ignored by everyone else. No need to shoot him since nobody is forcing anyone else to listen to his stuff. When it comes to musicals I rate people like Jerome Kern, the Gershwins, Rodgers & Hart/Hammerstein, Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, Leonard Bernstein and Stephen Sondheim much higher than Webber. But he can write a catchy tune that sticks in ones mind after just hearing it one or two times, so there's some talent there.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

jhar26 said:


> Let him be celebrated by his admirers and ignored by everyone else.


I'm all for letting his admirers enjoy him. BUT, the question was posed to us classical people, so the outpouring of honest and perhaps unfavorable responses should be expected.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Tapkaara said:


> I'm all for letting his admirers enjoy him. BUT, the question was posed to us classical people, so the outpouring of honest and perhaps unfavorable responses should be expected.


I wasn't criticizing other people's comments. I was only trying to formulate my own thoughts on Cortison's "should he be shot or celebrated" question.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

You like to wink a lot, don't you?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Lukecash12 said:


> You like to wink a lot, don't you?


Well, the problem is that there aren't any emoticons here that better represent what I really like. Winking comes the closest I guess. Certainly beats "EEK!" or "Mad." "Cool" might be an option, but I prefer the word "hip" - so a longhaired guy with a joint would be more appropriate than a baldie with sunglasses.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Strange, that's exactly what they have on Santharia.com Are you a member of that site (I am myself)? It's a pretty entertaining writing project that is insanely detailed. They actually have a massive compendium of all the information about Caelereth.


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## Tapkaara (Apr 18, 2006)

jhar26 said:


> I wasn't criticizing other people's comments. I was only trying to formulate my own thoughts on Cortison's "should he be shot or celebrated" question.


ALW should not be shot. On that we can all agree, I hope! But celebrated, yes, by those who like him.

For those who don't like him, we will listen to something else instead.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

> For those who don't like him, we will listen to something else instead.


And visibly cringe when we hear the name...


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Lukecash12 said:


> Strange, that's exactly what they have on Santharia.com Are you a member of that site (I am myself)?


No, I'm not.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Well that's an eerie coincidence.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Lukecash12 said:


> Well that's an eerie coincidence.


There are lots of internet forums with many emoticon options, so it's not THAT strange.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

I really loved Jesus Christ Superstar. Don't know if it still would be so enjoyable to me, many thing have changed since I watched it for last time. Anyway, it's a great musical.



> the question was posed to us classical people, so the outpouring of honest and perhaps unfavorable responses should be expected.


You really think his music is so low that classical listener can't like it? It's not much less complex than some of regarded minimalist's stuff.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aramis said:


> You really think his music is so low that classical listener can't like it? It's not much less complex than some of regarded minimalist's stuff.


Besides - complex for complexities sake is meaningless. Jesus Christ Superstar was interesting. I thought so at the time anyway, but it must have been about thirty years ago that I last heard it.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

jhar26 said:


> Besides - complex for complexities sake is meaningless.


It is. But it's basic criterion of judging music. Classical music is considered high music mainly because of it's complexity.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

jhar26 said:


> ...I rate people like Jerome Kern, the Gershwins, Rodgers & Hart/Hammerstein, Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, Leonard Bernstein and Stephen Sondheim much higher than Webber.


I had completely forgotten about Bernstein's forays into musical theater. I would have to make an exception in my usual loathing of the genre for West Side Story. "Cool," "Something's Coming," and especially "America" with its deceptive rhythm, are real redeeming pieces for this work. And of course "Somewhere" quotes Beethoven and is a great sad love song.

I'm not saying I'd go out of my way to watch it, but I can appreciate parts of it. Yes, this is far more timeless than what I've heard from Webber in my opinion. I'm sure however Webber will get along fine without my support.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Aramis said:


> It is. But it's basic criterion of judging music. Classical music is considered high music mainly because of it's complexity.


Now we seem to be wagging fingers at other's criteria for good music. I behest his music because there is no emotional content to it at all. It is so heavily loaded with cliche concepts, that there aren't any actual compositions at all. Just a name slapped onto a piece of paper. It doesn't get anything across at all, so we can't learn anything from it. As for myself, I'm hear to learn, so anything that seems like I'm loosing brain cells while I listen to it, I will naturally abhor.

Wondering why people dislike him is synonymous with going around backing up Miley Cyrus, Gene Simmons, or Fifty Cent, or Snoop Dog.


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## Il Seraglio (Sep 14, 2009)

I just find it obscene how rich he is and how he managed to earn both a peerage and a knighthood despite being totally talentless and writing nothing but downmarket crap throughout his entire career. I find it ironic that he is an avowed conservative voter even though the alarming discrepancy between his abilities and success serves as a shining example of why the UK is not a meritocracy in any way, shape or form

That being said, I don't wish him any harm and am sad to hear the recent news about him.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of him, but generally I dislike the musical theatre genre, it just seems to be a platform to present listeners with horrible earworms that won't go out of your head once you've heard them. _Phantom of the Opera_ would have to be the worst of the lot, endless repetition does not a leitmotif make, and I also can't stand _The Fiddler on the Roof_. I suppose _Cabaret_ is one of the few I can stand, it seems to be less earworm-ridden than the others I have heard. But I wouldn't go so far as owning a recording of it or anything. Maybe the DVD, if only for Liza Minelli's, Joel Grey's and Michael York's great performances.

Probably a better question is 'Do you like musicals,' rather than focusing on Webber...


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

Tapkaara said:


> Better than we do? Don't sell the members of this forum short!


then let us post musicals we have written. i'm ready to be impressed 

dj


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Andre said:


> Probably a better question is 'Do you like musicals,' rather than focusing on Webber...


No cigar for guessing what the answer would be. In my experience responses at music internet forums are always very predictable (and usually negative) when other genres are discussed than the one that the forum is about.


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## Yoshi (Jul 15, 2009)

I think he's very good with musicals, I have to admit I absolutely love the phantom of the opera. I watched the musical live and I thought it was amazing and I wanted to watch it again. I also saw jesus christ superstar and enjoyed it.
I don't know about his classical work... I should check it out.


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## Lukecash12 (Sep 21, 2009)

Hmmmm, let's see... I don't write musicals, obviously because that term has become synonymous with with crap. I don't have any of my music copyrighted as of now, so why on earth should I oblige you?

And that said, does it matter in the first place. I don't see how hard it is to agree that Webber was not a good composer at all. I don't see how you can run amok, telling us that we just are predisposed to dislike him. Be honest with yourself and realize that there isn't one bit of ingenuity in his works, and that they were made primarily to squeeze money out of hopelessly stupid individuals. Now are we going to call the Gaither Homecoming Hour actually good now?

This of all sites should be populated by plenty of people with that much common sense at least. What's the charade for?


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