# Female composers



## Levanda (Feb 3, 2014)

As I see majority are male dominating on composing music. No offence please on male forum members. Maybe we need to get some interest on females composers. Any advice for beginner to listening would be interesting.
Thanks


Levanda


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## Whistler Fred (Feb 6, 2014)

Just to be sure, are you asking for recommendations for female composers? If so, here are some with whom I'm familiar.

If you like romantic music, you may want to check out Clara Schumann (née Clara Josephine Wieck), Fanny Mendelssohn and Amy Beach (she more turn of the 20th Century, but with a romantic style). Early 20th Century would include Ruth Crawford Seeger, and Rebecca Clarke. Later in the century there's Emma Lou Diemer, Barbara Kolb, and Pauline Oliveros. Two recent discoveries for me are Julia Wolfe and Jennifer Higdon. I particularly like Ms. Higdon's music.

And there's also the remarkable Hildegard of Bingen, the "Sybil of the Rhine" if you have any interest in Medieval music.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

The "Lady with the Hammer", Galina Ustvolskaya


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

Sofia Gubaidulina, Olga Neuwirth, Rebecca Saunders, Unsuk Chin


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

As you might know, there are some women composers from your region or near your, many of them writing in a quite late-romantic style:

Zara Levina (piano concertos) 




Esther Mägi (mostly short works) 




Kaij Saariaho, mostly "modern" style - a wonderful flute concerto 




Onute Narbutaite (mixed styles) 




Grazyna Bacewicz (moderate modernism, wrote a lot) 




Sofia Gubaidulina (very mixed styles ) - here a chaconne 




Galina Ustvolskaya (very peculiar style, often quite brutal; the piano concerto is Shostakovich-style)


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## Levanda (Feb 3, 2014)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> The "Lady with the Hammer", Galina Ustvolskaya


Thanks I will listening this.


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## Aramis (Mar 1, 2009)

Maria Szymanowska, a lady that happaned to influence Chopin. In fact, her works sound so Chopinesque that listening to her makes you nod your head and say "Chopin, Chopin, you wretched style-stealer! And I thought you were so original!"


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Joan Tower is a prominent contemporary American composer. Puts a lot of men to shame.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

Levanda said:


> As I see majority are male dominating on composing music.


Were you hoping that 50% or more of the historical composers would be female?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lili Boulanger -- who died very young (Sister of Nadia Boulanger)

Germaine Taillefaire
_piano concerto no.1_









Ruth Crawford Seeger

Elizabeth (Libby) Larsen

Ellen Taaffe Zwilich
_Concerto for Violin_





Lucia Dlugoszewski
_Fire Fragile Flight_





Anna Clyne
_Blush_


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

She's not too well-known, but I've heard a couple nice piano pieces by Cecilia Arizti, a late 19th/early 20th century composer from Cuba.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I have a great fondness for Louise Farrenc, a Romantic composer.

Symphony No. 3
nonet
Piano Quintet No. 1 (1st movement)


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## Fairyqueen (Feb 19, 2014)

I would like recommend the oratorio: "Il Sacrifizio di Abramo" from Camila Di Rossi an Italian composer from the XVIII century. I haven't heard it on live, but I have got an amazing recording, and the entire oratorio is available on youtube.
Her music has plenty of sensibility and nuances sound.


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

I admire the music of Roxanna Panufnik greatly.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

There are some great recommendations in this thread. I especially love the work of Jennifer Higdon (such as her violin concerto) and Joan Tower ("In Memory" is a favorite). I am also finding a lot exploring the music of Sofia Gubaidulina (such as her Bassoon Concerto).

I will add

Ethel Smyth (Mass in D)

Elizabeth Maconchy. Try her Symphony for Double String Orchestra.

Ljubica Marić. Try her Byzantine Concerto.


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## User in F minor (Feb 5, 2014)

<3 Ustvolskaya. Her Grand Duet for cello and piano is just crazy.

Isabel Mundry hasn't been mentioned. There's a really nice album on Kairos with some of her works.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Another vote here for Lili Boulanger. 

One whose music I am attracted to but to which some aren't is Gloria Coates.

A local composer is Connie Ellisor. Her Blackberry Winter is kind of a hit around these parts.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

My top 5 favourites:

Cécile Chaminade (1857-1944) 

Clara Schumann (1819-1896)

Louise Farrenc (1804-1875)

Augusta Holmès (1847-1903)

Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179)


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

I guess all I really have is:

Gubaidulina: (various)
Saariaho: (various orchestral works)
Clara Schumann: that one disc with the piano concerto/piano trio/romances
Amy Beach: piano concerto

unless I'm forgetting one.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2014)

*CECILE CHAMINADE* (1857-1944)

Further to my previous post, I would like to add a few words about one of my favourite female composers, Cécile Chaminade.

I would not suggest that a beginner might necessarily want to make this composer a priority, but would suggest that people who like late romantic music, and who are looking for a change from all the usual material, may well find this composer's works an interesting and rewarding excursion if they have not already made any investigation thus far. I provide below a little background information and a few leads which I trust may be of some use.

Cécile Chaminade was French, born in Paris in 1857. She was a very good pianist as well as a good composer. She was very diverse and prolific, writing over 400 works, including a comic opera, a ballet, a choral chamber and orchestral music, a flute concertino, and about a hundred songs. She was well known as a concert pianist in her day. Despite her success, she lived a quiet personal life. Following the death of her husband in 1907, (he was some 20 years older) she packed up her music career at the age of 50. Her music sadly became rather neglected and was remembered mainly as the creator of a number of interesting piano works in the following decades. There is fortunately a revival of interest in her works these days.

I first became interested in this composer a few years ago having heard some of her piano solo works which I much enjoyed. The first piece that I heard was immediately familiar as I had heard it many years previously but had no idea what it was or who wrote it. It is called Automne, No 2 of Etudes de Concert, Op 35. Another very nice piece is La Lisonjera, Op 50 which also had a familiar ring to it. Autrefois Op 87, 4 is another. All of them mysteriously familiar. Arabesque, Op 61 is very good, and so too is Piano Sonata in C, Op 21.

Following this, I delved into some of her vocal works, chamber, and orchestral works and found much to admire. Among her 100 or so songs, my favourites are Chanson triste, l'Anneau d'argent, l'Ete, Ma premiere lettre. Of her many chamber works, ones that I like especially are Piano Trio No 1 in G minor, Op 11, and Piano Trio No 2 in A minor. The first is my favourite but both strike me as being very accomplished. Another very appealing quite short work is Pas des Cymbales, Op 36, 2.

One of her best orchestral works is Concertino for Flute and Orchestra, Op 102. It is quite short but very nice indeed with a beautiful melody. The version I happen to have is Susan Milan (flute), City of London Sinfonia/Richard Hickox conducting. Another very good work is Concertstück, Op 40. Again, there was definitely something strangely familiar about this when I first heard it on CD. It involves piano/orchestra. It has a haunting melody line. My version is Rosari Marciano, Orchestre Symphonique de Radio Télé Luxembourg Symphonique de Radio Télé Luxembourg.

I have by no means heard everything she wrote, as there is so much of it. I have merely picked up a few of her works based on some digging around here and there looking for leads. What I have heard impresses me enough to place her at the top of my list of female composers. The previous occupant was Clara Schumann, but I now prefer Cécile Chaminade, whose style I rather prefer. Cécile was (like Clara) also nice-looking which is an added bonus.


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## hreichgott (Dec 31, 2012)

Historical: Elizabeth-Claude Jacquet de la Guerre, a French composer with a very inventive imagination. Beautiful keyboard suites, a bunch of cantatas, chamber music etc. Unlike some other historical female composers who dabbled in composition but were mainly performers, Jacquet de la Guerre was a composer primarily and enjoyed the patronage of Louis XIV.

Contemporary: I'm especially fond of Jennifer Higdon, Gwyneth Walker and Dobrinka Tabakova. But here is a Helpful List
(some people probably figured the Helpful List was coming)
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/a-helpful-list/


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2014)

I think it's questionable, but I reckon some people out there would consider Tchaikovsky to be the greatest female composer of all.


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## musicrom (Dec 29, 2013)

I just listened to Elizabeth Maconchy's _Serenata Concertante_ on Pandora, and I really liked it!


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Good recommendations from everyone. I have several CDs of *Ellen Taaffe Zwillich's *music, and I like it. I started getting in to* Amy Beach's *piano music. I always think of* Pauline Oliverios*, for electronic music. Does *Wendy Carlos* count? I have everything by her I can find, and greatly admire the person as well as the music.
*Ruth Crawford Seeger's* output is small, but those string pieces she wrote are fantastic.


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## Levanda (Feb 3, 2014)

Wov what are wonderful responses thanks to you all, I did not managed to listened all composers but I did most of them.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

arcaneholocaust said:


> I think it's questionable, but I reckon some people out there would consider Tchaikovsky to be the greatest female composer of all.


Hmm that is questionable. He was a man, right? Care to explain why "some people" would consider him to be a woman?


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## Sudonim (Feb 28, 2013)

dgee said:


> Hmm that is questionable. He was a man, right? Care to explain why "some people" would consider him to be a woman?


Assuming I'm not overlooking some nuance in your question, I'll proceed as if you're genuinely asking. It's because Tchaikovsky was a Friend of Dorothy.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Sudonim said:


> Assuming I'm not overlooking some nuance in your question, I'll proceed as if you're genuinely asking. It's because Tchaikovsky was a Friend of Dorothy.


I never knew that!!! Thanks!!!


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## Jobis (Jun 13, 2013)

Sudonim said:


> Assuming I'm not overlooking some nuance in your question, I'll proceed as if you're genuinely asking. It's because Tchaikovsky was a Friend of Dorothy.


What is this, the 1940s?


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

There were a few of us who posted female composers on International Women's Day (including Grazyna Backewicz)









Unfortunately, I managed to ascribe Constant Lambert to the wrong gender (hangs head in shame!)


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Saariaho and Gubaidulina are my muses.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Jobis said:


> What is this, the 1940s?


He lives in a different time zone. You have to allow for that.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Nancy Van de Vate.

The Wikipedia bio is rather brief, and I quote it here: "She was born in Plainfield, New Jersey, and studied piano at Eastman School of Music and composition at the University of Mississippi and Florida State University. She later pursued further studies in electronic music at Dartmouth College and the University of New Hampshire and is known worldwide for her music in the large forms.[citation needed] She now lives permanently in Vienna, Austria and teaches composition at the Institute for European Studies in Vienna.[1] In 2010 the IES named her Composer-in-Residence.[2]"

I will add that she has written extensively in every major genre: opera, orchestral, concertos, chorus and orchestra, theatre music, choral music, chamber music. Though the Wiki bio is brief, the works list is extensive. Notable among her works is the colorful, thirteen minute Penderecki-like orchestral piece _Chernobyl_, 1987, probably her most performed orchestral work. It's a piece for all fans of dissonant modern music and is available on the Vienna Modern Masters label.

But I caution the listener -- Ms Van de Vate's range of expression is vast, and she handles tonality as well as she does more abstract expressionist music. She writes music of great beauty and power and certainly ranks in the forefront of major contemporary composers.









Ms. Van de Vate is the founder and president of VIENNA MODERN MASTERS RECORDING COMPANY which currently lists a catalog of well over 100 discs. The following is Ms. Van de Vate's statement from the VMM website:

Vienna Modern Masters is a nonprofit American company which produces and internationally distributes compact discs of contemporary classical music. Its Music from Six Continents 3000-series, the company's principal focus, presents distinguished orchestral and orchestral-choral music from around the world. Its Portrait, Chamber Music and Solo 2000-series primarily presents unusual new music in smaller forms. Vienna Modern Masters has no stylistic, gender, ethnic, geographic or other bias in its choice of music to appear on the label. Its only criterion is musical merit. For the present, for recordings VMM itself supervises, the company prefers to record in Eastern Europe, where superb orchestras and soloists are particularly accustomed to recording new music at moderate cost. Pre-recorded master tapes of excellent quality may also be submitted for VMM's consideration by composers, conductors, publishers or performers from any country in the world. 

I'm proud to claim I currently count in my personal CD collection every VMM release, several of which include works by Nancy Van de Vate. One of those CDs I treasure is her opera _Hamlet_, VMM4008, the CD of which she personally signed for me. _Hamlet_ was the last play I directed prior to retirement, and one evening she and I conversed about the piece via email sharing insights of this play we both hold dearly to heart. A short time later I received the newly recorded opera. A magnificent musical companion to Shakespeare's words.

By the way, several women composers are represented on VMM discs. Please check Vienna Modern Masters website for a list of available recordings. http://gdv.home.xs4all.nl/vmm/ The series serves as a cornerstone in my own collection of contemporary classical music.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Sudonim said:


> Assuming I'm not overlooking some nuance in your question, I'll proceed as if you're genuinely asking. It's because Tchaikovsky was a Friend of Dorothy.


Homosexual =/= feminine


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Partita said:


> *CECILE CHAMINADE* (1857-1944)
> 
> Further to my previous post, I would like to add a few words about one of my favourite female composers, Cécile Chaminade.
> 
> ...


I don't want to add anything to your informative post except to say that I bought a recording of Chaminade's two piano trios and was simply knocked sideways by them. This woman was the real thing and knew her business. These works are well-made and inspired. Chaminade came to be viewed as a "feminine" composer - a maker of musical confections - to be guffawed over in the sweaty locker rooms of musical modernism, along with Mrs. "Ha Ha" (H.H.A.) Beach. Now that we're over that cultural phase, we can find out what we've missed. Thanks.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2014)

Woodduck, in your haste to add yet one more slam to "modernism," you neglect to mention that these trios were from 1881 and 1887, respectively. Though, to be fair, you do say "came to be viewed." Fact remains, these two trios are not something we missed because of some cultural phase of modernism. We missed them because the musical confections that Cécile ended up writing were simply more popular. Perhaps that's attributable to the male dominance of classical music. I doubt that it was any musical modernism. The guys were pretty much in control, modernist or not. That's what female composers were up against, in whatever year. (Even 2014.)

And also, perhaps also in your haste you forgot to mention, Chaminade was pretty lucky and pretty successful over all. During her lifetime; only sliding into obscurity after her death. After. I.e., her obscurity, such as it was, had no sort of effect on _her_ at all. And all sorts of people slide into obscurity after their deaths. Think of Barney Childs, for instance. Ah, right. You cannot. Too obscure. When he was alive, he was a leading proponent of indeterminacy. So his modernist chops were unquestionable. So why did he become obscure? He was a guy, and he was a modernist. Why, his should be a household name in every house, not just mine.

I give your sweaty modernist locker room picture a fail.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Manxfeeder said:


> *Another vote here for Lili Boulanger. *


Lili Boulanger is an extraordinary composer, no doubt. Much too short lived (she died age 25) to have fully displayed her obvious genius. Her younger sister Nadia lived a long, full life with much musical influence on the world. One can only speculate what impact Lili would have had with a life span of similar years. Lili seems to me the more talented composer, but one can only judge from a small sample of work.

MARCO POLO disc 8.223636 titled "In Memoriam Lili Boulanger" provides a sample of Lili's genius. It's a disc I turn to quite often.


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## BRHiler (May 3, 2014)

I'm sure they've been mentioned previously, but here's my favorite female composers

Jennifer Higdon
Joan Tower
Cindy McTee
Lisa Bielawa


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Indeed, today there is no dearth of many interesting female composers, and many names (as well as some names from the past) had been mentioned in the thread.

Let me add the British composer Judith Weir. My favorite piece from her is an opera: "A Night at the Chinese Opera", but there are shorter examples to be tried first:


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## BaronScarpia (Apr 2, 2014)

Francesca Caccini and Barbara Strozzi were two eminent female composers of the baroque era.


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## BRHiler (May 3, 2014)

I knew my brain wasn't working right this morning.....

Ellen Taafe Zwillich (may have butchered the spelling, if so, I apologize)
Augusta Read Thomas
Thea Musgrave


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

*Vitezlava Kapralova* (1915 - 1940), very talented it seems and also a conductor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vítězslava_Kaprálová :[/url] Piano Concerto 




*Ljubica Maric* (1909-2003)(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubica_Marić): "Byzantine Concerto" for piano & orchestra 



 (EDIT: mentioned in post #15)

*Betsy Jolas* (1926- )(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsy_Jolas): "Quartet II" for Soprano & Strings 



 , Piano Sonata 




*Elena Firsova* (married to Dmitri Smirnov): a lot on you-t, including Concerto Elegy for Cello & Orchestra 



 & violin concerto no.2


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> Good recommendations from everyone. I have several CDs of *Ellen Taaffe Zwillich's *music, and I like it. I started getting in to* Amy Beach's *piano music. I always think of* Pauline Oliverios*, for electronic music. Does *Wendy Carlos* count? I have everything by her I can find, and greatly admire the person as well as the music.
> *Ruth Crawford Seeger's* output is small, but those string pieces she wrote are fantastic.


Why wouldn't Wendy Carlos count?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Wendy Carlos? Was she the one who had sex re-assignment surgery?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Lope de Aguirre said:


> Wendy Carlos? Was she the one who had sex re-assignment surgery?


yes, she is trans. She's also really awesome.


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## Sudonim (Feb 28, 2013)

violadude said:


> Homosexual =/= feminine


Uh ... yes, of course. But what does that (and Jobis' question, "What is this, the 1940s?") have to do with what I said?

(Please pardon me if I'm being dense. I'm getting over an upper respiratory infection and am on medication ...)


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Cecile Chaminade (8 August 1857 – 13 April 1944) Try her Flute Concertino op 107


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## Figleaf (Jun 10, 2014)

I hope I've posted the link correctly. It's Pol Plançon singing Chaminade's song Au Pays Bleu, an absolutely gorgeous performance.
I also thought, from the pic in the video, that Cecile was quite pretty, but my daughter insists she's not! Quite a 19th century sort of beauty, perhaps.


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

Sudonim said:


> Uh ... yes, of course. But what does that (and Jobis' question, "What is this, the 1940s?") have to do with what I said?
> 
> (Please pardon me if I'm being dense. I'm getting over an upper respiratory infection and am on medication ...)


I believe the implication that being a homosexual is the same as being a woman is somewhat dated.

I find the idea that anyone in 2014 would make that assumption to be profoundly disturbing.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

some guy said:


> Woodduck, in your haste to add yet one more slam to "modernism," you neglect to mention that these trios were from 1881 and 1887, respectively. Though, to be fair, you do say "came to be viewed." Fact remains, these two trios are not something we missed because of some cultural phase of modernism. We missed them because the musical confections that Cécile ended up writing were simply more popular. Perhaps that's attributable to the male dominance of classical music. I doubt that it was any musical modernism. The guys were pretty much in control, modernist or not. That's what female composers were up against, in whatever year. (Even 2014.)
> 
> And also, perhaps also in your haste you forgot to mention, Chaminade was pretty lucky and pretty successful over all. During her lifetime; only sliding into obscurity after her death. After. I.e., her obscurity, such as it was, had no sort of effect on _her_ at all. And all sorts of people slide into obscurity after their deaths. Think of Barney Childs, for instance. Ah, right. You cannot. Too obscure. When he was alive, he was a leading proponent of indeterminacy. So his modernist chops were unquestionable. So why did he become obscure? He was a guy, and he was a modernist. Why, his should be a household name in every house, not just mine.
> 
> I give your sweaty modernist locker room picture a fail.


Perhaps misogyny was a greater impediment to the proper evaluation of Chaminade's compositional virtues by posterity than the prejudices or preachings of the musical avant garde, whether that of 1900 or 1950. But that doesn't alter the fact that music in Chaminade's Romantic idiom, by any number of fine composers we have only recently been getting to know well by way of recordings, was quite consciously, and quite soon, scorned as sentimental, retrograde and irrelevant by those who presume to authority in such matters. With people like Virgil Thomson, Theodor Adorno and Rene Leibowitz disdaining even an original like Sibelius as being provincial and passe, and Grove's Dictionary in its 1954 edition similarly dismissing Rachmaninov (both of these great composers loved by the concert-going public), what chance did a less richly endowed Romantic - and a woman to boot - have of being properly remembered and performed during much of the 20th century? I didn't invent the epithet "Mrs. Ha Ha Beach" (I don't know who did, but it was most certainly a 20th-century male musician, probably one occupying a chair at a major Conservatory). I can't prove it, but it makes intuitive sense to me that the musical/aesthetic landscape needed to loosen up, as it did late in the last century, for music like Chaminade's to become not only respectable but interesting again, not to mention available. The sad thing is that people (as opposed to intellectually fashionable composers and academics) would probably have loved hearing it all along.

Barney Childs? I went to YouTube. The first piece I checked out was called "Blazer," and consisted of 3 1/2 minutes of a guy practicing on a snare drum.






The second was a "structured improvisation" called "Take Five," in which we are told that "anything can happen." Something indeed did happen (though apparently it would have been acceptable to Mr. Childs if nothing had happened). That "indeterminacy" thing, I gather.






Ah yes. Modernism lives on. But, thankfully, so does the beautiful determinacy of Cecile Chaminade.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Woodduck: Barney Childs? I went to YouTube. The first piece I checked out was called "Blazer," and consisted of 3 1/2 minutes of a guy practicing on a snare drum.


History doesn't repeat itself, but does it rhyme?

_I think I heard that piece!_. A kid down the street was playing it. Only he called it his "Concerto for Stick and Garbage Can."


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## Sudonim (Feb 28, 2013)

jimsumner said:


> I believe the implication that being a homosexual is the same as being a woman is somewhat dated.
> 
> I find the idea that anyone in 2014 would make that assumption to be profoundly disturbing.


Yes. I hope no one has been under the assumption that _I_ was implying any such thing. I was simply replying to what appeared to be a sincere question.

Someone made a "joke" that Tchaikovsky could be considered a great female composer. Someone else asked (again, with apparent sincerity) why that would be. I explained the rationale for the "joke."


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> Perhaps misogyny was a greater impediment to the proper evaluation of Chaminade's compositional virtues by posterity than the prejudices or preachings of the musical avant garde, whether that of 1900 or 1950. But that doesn't alter the fact that music in Chaminade's Romantic idiom, by any number of fine composers we have only recently been getting to know well by way of recordings, was quite consciously, and quite soon, scorned as sentimental, retrograde and irrelevant by those who presume to authority in such matters. With people like Virgil Thomson, Theodor Adorno and Rene Leibowitz disdaining even an original like Sibelius as being provincial and passe, and Grove's Dictionary in its 1954 edition similarly dismissing Rachmaninov (both of these great composers loved by the concert-going public), what chance did a less richly endowed Romantic - and a woman to boot - have of being properly remembered and performed during much of the 20th century? I didn't invent the epithet "Mrs. Ha Ha Beach" (I don't know who did, but it was most certainly a 20th-century male musician, probably one occupying a chair at a major Conservatory). I can't prove it, but it makes intuitive sense to me that the musical/aesthetic landscape needed to loosen up, as it did late in the last century, for music like Chaminade's to become not only respectable but interesting again, not to mention available. The sad thing is that people (as opposed to intellectually fashionable composers and academics) would probably have loved hearing it all along.


There has been an increased interest, as of the late 20th century, in mostly forgotten late Romantic composers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. But given that this has coincided _exactly_ with an increased interest in early music and in lesser known composers of the Baroque and Classical eras (and indeed, lesser-known Modernists as well), can't we infer that it is more likely that what has happened is not a reevaluation of later Romanticism than a reevaluation of the idea of having a core canon that everyone sticks to? With recordings, now lesser-known composers can be heard, and this is as true of Hauer and Ruth Crawford Seeger as it is of Charminade and Lili Boulanger.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

*Shameless plug* Well I am a female composer! and I've written some damn good music so far, and intend to write even better works into the future. Anybody who would like to hear some of it may just ask me for a link.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2014)

So finding two things on youtube makes one an expert.

No.

And speaking of repeating, the kid down the street crack is probably the thirty trillionth iteration of "my kid could do that."

Marshall, are you attending? Cheap shots. Not "freedom of speech," more like "entitlement of making cheap shots."

You want a board where people feel entitled to make easy jabs? You got it, mate. In spades. But it's not conversation. Not by any means.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> some guy: So finding two things on youtube makes one an expert.
> 
> No.
> 
> ...


---
This is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. . . Sorry, I'll still collapsing into paroxysms of giggles. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Tell me more, 'some guy'. Tell me more. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Marschallin Blair said:


> ---
> This is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. . . Sorry, I'll still collapsing into paroxysms of giggles. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Tell me more, 'some guy'. Tell me more. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.


Grow up.

.......................


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Originally Posted by Marschallin Blair View Post
> ---
> This is one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. . . Sorry, I'll still collapsing into paroxysms of giggles. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Tell me more, 'some guy'. Tell me more. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.
> 
> ...


Had I uneducated insolence as a standard, perhaps I'd have a fighting chance.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Post cancelled.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Woodduck said:


> This was a couple of decades before such forgotten late Romantic composers as Thuille, Gernsheim, Braunfels, Sgambati, Alfano, and numerous others got the attention of performers and recording companies and began to catch on with listeners. My sense (and I admit it's only a sense) is that interest in this music came after modernism in the arts was felt to have virtually exhausted its iconoclastic possibilities, and coincided in time with the compositional trends we call "neo-tonal" and "neo-romantic."


But tonality never went away (even excepting the fact I don't believe that the term "atonal" describes anything). The compositional mainstream between the world wars was Neoclassicism a la Stravinsky, Hindemith, and Les Six, who were the most stridently anti-Romantic. Schoenberg's "Der Neue Klassicismus" actually makes fun of their exaggeratedly anti-Romantic tendencies. After World War II, there were some prominent composers who started writing 12-tone music, including Stravinsky, but many did not. Britten, Shostakovich, and others continued to write in contemporary tonal idioms (not common practice tonal, though) through the 70s, by which time trends like Minimalism were already on the rise. The American Neoromantic movement really seemed to take off in the 80s.

There was a brief period of time, after Schoenberg's death, when it seemed as if the predominant route to respectability was to write 12-tone or post 12-tone serial music, but the entire time there were plenty of prominent, well-respected composers who never did.



Woodduck said:


> In every period there's a certain amount of reaction against the sensibilities and artistic aims of the preceding period, but the 20th century's conscious disruptions and repudiations were extreme and often propounded with shrill dogmatism and condescending snobbery. Fortunately we do seem now to be past that sort of aggressively dismissive attitude toward tradition - particularly 19th-century Romantic, tonal tradition - which was a prominent aspect of what we call "modernism" in music; it seems unlikely that we would now find leading figures in the world of classical music willing to call Sibelius "the worst composer in the world" (Leibowitz), or Rachmaninov a concoctor of "artificial and gushing tunes" whose popularity is "unlikely to last" (Grove's 1954).


I don't believe that there is such a thing as "the tonal tradition" as separate from an "atonal tradition", but rather a single tradition of Western Music. Clearly, composers associated with both camps drew from each other's idioms as they needed. Look at the common ground found by Zemlinsky and Berg, or the influence of Schoenberg on Shostakovich.

There did exist critical disdain in some quarters towards Sibelius and Rachmaninoff, and partially because of their popular approval. But it's not as if they were universally despised by critics; they had plenty of champions as well. I must admit that as much as I do enjoy his music, I find Sibelius baffling at times. His sense of form was very different.



Woodduck said:


> Composers now openly acknowledge the influence of these and other "traditional" composers, whose artistic power and genuine originality no longer need to be minimized in an effort to validate an avant garde which really seems no longer to exist.


I think that what's really happening is that people no longer see any of the dividing lines that had separated the various schools of 20th century music. Many of Cage's ideas about sound have been adapted and integrated into the mainstream. Any combination of tones can be used, so long as the context supports it. Stravinsky's rhythm and Schoenberg's ideas about motivic construction can and do co-exist. You can be influenced by both Sibelius and Stravinsky.

As with the Brahms/Wagner feuds of the 19th century, time is making the divisions appear artificial.



Woodduck said:


> Exactly how much Chaminade or any other neglected composer of the past has benefited, who can say? Perhaps these coincidences are less real and significant than I feel they are.


In most cases, despite the increased availability of recordings of lesser-known composers, the concert repertoire remains hard to break into, and performers continue to focus on the traditional warhorses.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I really appreciate your taking the time to respond to my musings, Mahlerian, despite the fact that I was having such difficulty pulling my thoughts together (lack of sleep, distracting background noise) that I finally gave up and deleted the whole post! Your comments are thus a memorial to the vanished, rather like a posthumous assessment of the flying skills of Amelia Earhardt. I think at this point I will just rest peacefully in the briny depths. Nonetheless it's always good to hear what you have to say.:tiphat:


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Guardian's Service throws a curveball, naming Louise Farrenc's 3rd Symphony as one of his faves.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...ide-louise-farrenc-third-symphony-tom-service


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2014)

And I, for my part, am still struggling with the metaphor.

In what way is Service's article a "curveball"?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> Guardian's Service throws a curveball, naming Louise Farrenc's 3rd Symphony as one of his faves.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/to...ide-louise-farrenc-third-symphony-tom-service


I listened to all of three Farrenc's symphonies (on recording). Most enjoyable. Definitely a female composer of note from the past - and remember this; it wasn't all that "a thing" for women to be composers, artists etc. in those days either. A treat to see women composers of the past recognised today.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Aleksandra Vrebalov is a Serbian composer, resident in the United States. Sometime ago I heard her piece "Pannonia Boundless" in a recital by the Kronos Quartet, and it caughts my attention, first for the evocative 'Roman Empire' flavour of the title, and then by the homage to the folklore music of the 'pannonian' gypsies. This is very approachable music, suitable for all type of sensibilities:


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2014)

There is a line in the movie Copying Beethoven where a cantankerous old Ludwig (played very well by Ed Harris) says "A woman composer is like a dog walking on two legs. They aren't very good at it but you're suprised they can do it at all".

Don't hate me. I didn't say it.


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