# Bellini or Donizetti?



## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Two Italian bel canto composers.

Who's more your cup of tea?
:tiphat:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Itullian said:


> Two Italian bel canto composers.
> 
> Who's more your cup of tea?
> :tiphat:


I do miss the option both ?

It's like I have to choose between my parents.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

Well...Bellini.

His music is sublime. However, I do think that Donizetti's _operas_ are dramatically "tighter" and more effective as wholes. For instance, I find LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR more dramatically incisive than I PURITANI, much as I love I PURITANI.


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## Cesare Impalatore (Apr 16, 2015)

Very difficult question. Bellini has my single favourite bel canto opera of all, Norma, but Donizetti's sheer quantity of diverse masterworks (Lucia, Elisir, Poliuto, Anna Bolena, Lucrezia Borgia, Favorita etc.) is also impressive. If I had to choose one of them for the lonely island it would probably be Bellini, though, so my vote goes to him.


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

Well I don't drink tea  but both


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Shouldn't it be a triad to include also Rossini? 

I like all three. Voting based on whose operas I have the most of (and off the top of my head) it has to be Donizetti, so there my vote went in.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Donnie for me


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## sabrina (Apr 26, 2011)

My cup of tea is silent. I love them both. Bellini is brilliant and he died so young, I love Norma, how can I vote against him? Donizetti gave me so many moments of joy through his musical genius...no way he could go second.
For me, Rossini should have an edge, as I was really obsessed with his music, but still I would not enjoy any comparison with his peers.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm afraid to say I found this choice easy. With Donizetti I'm pretty much unmoved by anything except Lucia obvious highlights, whereas Casta Diva alone could be reason enough to choose Bellini, although there's much more. I Puritani is a favourite of mine, so Bellini it is.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Donizetti at his best deserves a place on the pantheon, but maybe there's a valid reason why so many of his works have been left to die on the vine. Too prolific for his own good? 

Bellini died when so much of the operatic world was already in his grasp - he may have ended up writing the occasional clunker but at the rate he was progressing it's hard for me to imagine him being anything like the 'conveyor belt' composer that Donizetti was. That said, I wonder how Bellini would have fared writing comedy, something which Donizetti had a real flair for. 

Overall I'd say Bellini's relatively sudden demise left more of a vacuum than Donizetti's tragic decline, and what he left was definitely more a case of quality over quantity.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bellinilover said:


> Well...Bellini.
> 
> His music is sublime. However, I do think that Donizetti's _operas_ are dramatically "tighter" and more effective as wholes. For instance, I find LUCIA DI LAMMERMOOR more dramatically incisive than I PURITANI, much as I love I PURITANI.


This pretty much says it for me too. Now if there were no _Norma_...


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

If I were forced to choose ... it would definitely be Rossini


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Bellini wrote Norma and Beatrice di Tenda, so he wins already 
on a more serious note, Bellini's music comes across more lyrical, florid and smooth, so I probably prefer it overall for that reason.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

What?

I ain't choosing. Both are wonderful composers!


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

I give an edge overall to Donnie, besides being more prolific with over 70 known operas he also was versatile being skilled in both dramatic and comedic opera composition, something other composers struggled with.....

He gave us the great comedic Don Pasquale, Daughter of the Regiment, and Elixir of Love as well as many great dramatic works


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Bellini.

I agree with Richard Wagner that the Italian composer, the 'gentle Sicilian', wrote 'melodies more beautiful than the most beautiful dreams'. 

And "Norma" is my favorite opera. I also love very much 'I puritani" and "Beatrice di Tenda". I'm not that fond of any of the operas written by Donizetti (some of them are really fantastic, of course, but that's my personal taste).


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## Dustin (Mar 30, 2012)

I can't vote yet because I only know Norma and L'elisir D'amore. They are both tremendous in my book and favorites of mine. Can't choose between them so I'll need to hear more before I ultimately rank them.


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## sharik (Jan 23, 2013)

Donizetti for me, he excels Bellini by quite a margin.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Donizetti. 

Tuneful, dramatic, adept at tragedy and comedy.

Bellini I just don't get. I've heard Norma (Casta Diva is beautiful, but the only exciting bit is the gong war ensemble "Guerra! Guerra!", which then thrns sedate again), Sonnambula, Straniera, Romeo, Beatrice di Tenda, and Pirata. Soporific.

Puritani I like, though. The opening is glorious, the Act 1 finale brilliant, and "Suoni la tromva" is actually lively.


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## Belowpar (Jan 14, 2015)

Why is it always either or?

"Red or White?" There's the right time for both.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I like both so I can't choose.

I am not a fan of the female voice and the only Bellini I like is _I Puritani_ and the only reason I like that is because of the wonderful bass role of Giorgio Valton. But that role alone puts this opera right up amongst my all time favourites.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I want them all: Bellini has the best melodies, Donizetti and Rossini were masters of comedy, and at his best Donizetti was spectacular. I could listen to The Elixir of Love every week. Same for Lucia. I just saw Maria Stuarda and found it dull as dirt, though. I'm more hopeful for Roberto Devereaux next week.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Belowpar said:


> Why is it always either or?


It's a friendly contest; I just go with the flow (in this case, Donizetti).


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> Donizetti.
> 
> Bellini I just don't get. I've heard Norma (Casta Diva is beautiful, but the only exciting bit is the gong war ensemble "Guerra! Guerra!", which then thrns sedate again), Sonnambula, Straniera, Romeo, Beatrice di Tenda, and Pirata. Soporific.


You've obviously been listening to the wrong recordings. I defy anyone to find this as less than gripping, thrilling, dramatic stuff.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

GregMitchell said:


> You've obviously been listening to the wrong recordings. I defy anyone to find this as less than gripping, thrilling, dramatic stuff.


I'll check it out; thanks! I've heard the Sutherland CD and the Opera Australia video, again with Sutherland; heard the Sutherland _Beatrice di Tenda_ and _Sonnambula_; the Caballé _Straniera_ (bootleg); and the _Capuleti_ with Baltsa and Gruberova. Any recommendations?


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

SimonTemplar said:


> I'll check it out; thanks! I've heard the Sutherland CD and the Opera Australia video, again with Sutherland; heard the Sutherland _Beatrice di Tenda_ and _Sonnambula_; the Caballé _Straniera_ (bootleg); and the _Capuleti_ with Baltsa and Gruberova. Any recommendations?


Neither *La Straniera* nor *Beatrice di Tenda* are top notch Bellini, though Callas might have made something of them. However they are not operas I would choose first, if trying to convince anyone of Bellini's genius. Without cavil or question I would direct them first to *Norma*, which was admired enormously by both Wagner and Verdi.

The Callas *Norma* I detailed above is, I think, the best of all her Normas, and is best in the Divina issue I detailed above, but there are others that give equal satisfaction; the two studio recordings on EMI/Warner (the earlier finds Callas in firmer voice, the later has the better all round cast), the 1955 Rome broadcast and the 1952 Covent Garden live performance (with Sutherland in the tiny role of Clotilde) are the most recommendable of the others.

There are quite a few Callas *La Sonnambula*s out there. The only one to avoid is the live Edinburgh performance when she wasn't in good voice. Best sound is the studio version on Warner, but most exciting is probably live from Cologne. Arsvocalis has an excellent pressing of this, but I think it's currently unavailable, in which case Myto is best. The Bernstein/La Scala performance is also excellent, but the sound not so good.

The Callas studio *I Puritani* on EMI/Warner also finds Callas in terrific voice. The libretto for this opera is a bit weak, and,dramatically, I'd agree it is a bit of a mess, but it contains some great music and Callas makes the character of Elvira live and breathe as no other.

I actually like the Baltsa/Gruverova *I Capuleti e i Montecchi*, but, if it didn't work for you, you might try the Patane recording on EMI/Warner with Sills and Janet Baker, which is possibly more cogently dramatic and enjoys better sound.

Try also Callas's Mad Scenes disc, which, more than any other, gives you an idea of how exciting _bel canto_ opera can be. It has on it a superb performance of the closing scene from *Il Pirata*. There is also a complete recording of the opera with Callas, recorded at a concert performance at Carnegie Hall in 1958. The supporting cast is not up to much, and Callas, though musical and imaginative as ever, is not in her best voice, so maybe not a priority.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

When I knew only the "standard" three or four operas of Donizetti, I would have chosen Bellini on the strength of his melodies and Callas's _Norma_. But there is so much Donizetti that I've now discovered and so much more I've yet to hear and never will hear, I think choosing between them would be unfair.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Belowpar said:


> Why is it always either or?
> 
> "Red or White?" There's the right time for both.


And even if one doesn't like red or white, or no wine at all, let it be.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

GregMitchell said:


> Neither *La Straniera* nor *Beatrice di Tenda* are top notch Bellini, though Callas might have made something of them. However they are not operas I would choose first, if trying to convince anyone of Bellini's genius. Without cavil or question I would direct them first to *Norma*, which was admired enormously by both Wagner and Verdi.
> 
> The Callas *Norma* I detailed above is, I think, the best of all her Normas, and is best in the Divina issue I detailed above, but there are others that give equal satisfaction; the two studio recordings on EMI/Warner (the earlier finds Callas in firmer voice, the later has the better all round cast), the 1955 Rome broadcast and the 1952 Covent Garden live performance (with Sutherland in the tiny role of Clotilde) are the most recommendable of the others.
> 
> ...


Thanks again! I think I have Callas singing Norma in the box set.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

As it happens, I started listening to *La Straniera* on Spotify the other day, switching between a Scotto live recording and the Opera Rara studio recording. Neither performance is up to much and I confess to finding the opera rather dull. Callas might have made something of it. So might Sutherland or Caballe, or Radvanovsky today, but it seemed tepid stuff and the score just meandered along. If this were all I knew of Bellini, I would no doubt have voted for Donizetti.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I love "La straniera", and that Opera Rara recording, a whole lot, however. 

In my view, Bellini, that was incapable of writing bad stuff, gave us some nice operas (_Bianca e Fernando, I Capuleti ed i Montecchi, Zaira_), very nice operas (_Sonnambula, Il pirata, La straniera_), a wonderful one (_Beatrice di Tenda_) and two masterpieces: _Norma_ and _Puritani_.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

schigolch said:


> I love "La straniera", and that Opera Rara recording, a whole lot, however.


Maybe I should give it another try, but it just didn't grab me and Patrizia Cioffi just didn't seem to have the stature that the role required. The vocal personality was just too small.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Indeed, Ms. Ciofi's voice is not the best in the business. But her dramatic involvement, along with her vocal talents, makes her an exciting artist to follow. I remember one evening, some years ago, at Teatro Real, when she was able to keep me watching in rapture as she was singing an unbelievably beautiful Amenaide, one of my top opera evenings in this century.

The opera is not frequently performed. However, it was very popular in Italy after its premiere in 1829 (with Henriette Méric-Lalande, Caroline Ungher, Domenico Reina and Antonio Tamburini), for more than half a century, and Bellini himself reviewed to adapt it for the great Rubini. At the end of the 19th century, it just dissapeared from the repertoire and, except for a couple of evenings at La Scala to celebrate the centenary with great singers like Gina Cigna, Mario Basiola and Francesco Merli, it was never staged.

Fortunately, Montserrat Caballé and Renata Scotto sang the opera in the 1960s, saving it for oblivion.

The plot, quite complicated, present us a woman, Alaide, living in Brittany hiding her face (she is la Straniera, the Stranger). Arturo, engaged to Isoletta, is obsessed with the stranger, in spite of the warnings from his friend, Valdeburgo.

Valdeburgo, however, is none other than Alaide's brother. Alaide herself is the second wife of the bigamous King of France, and is waiting the death of the first spouse of the French sovereign.

Arturo thinks he has killed Valdeburgo in a fight, and when he reappears, he promises to finally marry Isoletta. When news of the death of the Queen of France arrives, the true identity of Alaide is unveiled and Arturo, in desperation, stabs himself.

Like always in Italian melodramma, all those vicissitudes are just the excuse to play with the character's emotions, shaped and fostered by Bellini's wonderful score. This is a restrained musical portrait, elegant, delicate. The long Bellinian melodies are here somewhat contained, almost timid, and ensemble numbers acquire an unusually strong presence. I guess it needs some time to get used to this different register from the Sicilian composer, but there are unforgettable moments like the trial, the aria 'Ciel pietosa, in si crudo momento', the 1st act duet between Alaide and Arturo...

Having said that, of course some people will like the opera, and others will not. That's life. 

We can hear the Opera Rara version in youtube:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

schigolch said:


> I love "La straniera", and that Opera Rara recording, a whole lot, however.
> 
> In my view, Bellini, that was incapable of writing bad stuff, gave us some nice operas (_Bianca e Fernando, I Capuleti ed i Montecchi, Zaira_), very nice operas (_Sonnambula, Il pirata, La straniera_), a wonderful one (_Beatrice di Tenda_) and two masterpieces: _Norma_ and _Puritani_.


I have La Sraniera with Souliotis, and I love it.

The irony off this recording that's it's been realest on G.D.S records.
Approved and recommended by him self :tiphat:


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

schigolch said:


> *Indeed, Ms. Ciofi's voice is not the best in the business. But her dramatic involvement, along with her vocal talents, makes her an exciting artist to follow. I remember one evening, some years ago, at Teatro Real, when she was able to keep me watching in rapture as she was singing an unbelievably beautiful Amenaide, one of my top opera evenings in this century. *


I adore Ciofi dramatic involvement too. I am totally impressed by her delightful Teresa in the studio Benvenuto Cellini.

Caballe performance is available on Youtube. I like it a lot:


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Just for the sake of completion, let's mention also this version with Renée Fleming, and Gregory Kunde:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

schigolch said:


> Just for the sake of completion, let's mention also this version with Renée Fleming, and Gregory Kunde:


​


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## doctorjohn (Mar 5, 2017)

There is no god other than bellini and Donizetti is his prophet


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

doctorjohn said:


> There is no god other than Bellini and Donizetti is his prophet


For me it's changes every day, just the way my mood is.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm going to say for me they are probably about equal right now. Beverly Sills recorded operas from both while in her prime, that's enough to make me happy!


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## itarbrt (Feb 9, 2017)

I've more Donizetti than Bellini but really can't choose . Like them both .


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## WaterRat (May 19, 2015)

Bellini.

At his best Donizetti is very, very good, but Bellini is bellissimo.

That said, great bel canto singers are so rare. The recordings of Callas and Sutherland at their peak are not of the best sound quality. Maybe Eglise Guiterrez can become the great bel canto singer of our time.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

^

Natalie Dessay did a pretty good job on that one to.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Donizetti for the queens followed by Bellini for the I Capuleti e i Montecchi and Sonnambula.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Donizetti for the queens followed by Bellini for the I Capuleti e i Montecchi and Sonnambula.


Wait till you are diving in the Opera Rara series...


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Pugg said:


> Wait till you are diving in the Opera Rara series...


I do have this one and ought to listen to it again. It has been a while.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

After nine months since posting the first time, I am giving the nod to donizetti


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm not really very musically educated...but it occurred to me, after recently hearing NORMA again, that Bellini's operas might be stylistically closer than Donizetti's to a non-operatic work like an oratorio or a concerto(?) Is there anything in this idea, do you think?


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

I think you may refer to what Bellini's contemporaries, to describe his music, were calling 'musica filosofica'. A kind of integration between text and music, while formally respecting the so-called Rossini's code. In this sense, Bellini's operas are indeed different from Donizetti's, from Rossini's and from other composers of the period.

Of course, both Donizetti and Bellini were writing not only opera, but also other genres, as well. It's true that these efforts were not really at the same height than his operas, though some pieces are nice, like Bellini's masses.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Bellini's melodies were so beautiful but he could have never written L'Elisir d'amore, the Daughter, or Don Pasquale. Other than the big confrontation act at the end of Act II of Norma I find Donizetti to be more dramatic. I also find most of Donizetti's operas end typically with a tour de force aria for the soprano: Lucrezia, Maria, Anna.. Call me shallow.


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## Rossiniano (Jul 28, 2017)

Bellini died so young and accomplished so much! Both _Norma_ and _Sonnambula_ were composed when he was about 30 years old. He died at a younger age than Mozart. Unless he was going to do the Rossini trick and retire in his thirties what we have are the works from what would be considered his early period if he had lived a full life. This would be analogous to Verdi's pre _Luisa Miller _works. With Rossini it has been said that it was part of his genius that made him decide to quit operatic composition at such an early age. With Mozart, Bizet, Pergolesi, Bellini, and others who died so young the decision was in God's hands.

So my heart votes for Bellini, but based on the variety of Donizetti's output if forced to choose I would probably vote for Donizetti. However, I'm still on the fence.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Bellini's melodies were so beautiful but he could have never written L'Elisir d'amore, the Daughter, or Don Pasquale. Other than the big confrontation act at the end of Act II of Norma I find Donizetti to be more dramatic. I also find most of Donizetti's operas end typically with a tour de force aria for the soprano: Lucrezia, Maria, Anna.. Call me shallow.


Some of Bellini's do too (think Pirata, Beatrice di Tenda and Sonnambula). Donizetti possibly wrote the better operas (he was more dramatic (and innovative) than Bellini, but those beautiful melodies get me every time.

N.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I was just rearranging my MP3 player and see I have 11 Donizetti operas on it, but only 4 Rossini and 2 Bellini. Definitely Donizetti is my favorite of the three.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Like them both equal so like Pugg said, I missing the option both.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I'm not the biggest bel canto fan but I'd give the edge to Donizetti for the mad scene from Lucia alone.


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Barbebleu said:


> I'm not the biggest bel canto fan but I'd give the edge to Donizetti for the mad scene from Lucia alone.


As long as the soprano is going banana's its fine by me.


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## Sonata (Aug 7, 2010)

Rogerx said:


> As long as the soprano is going banana's its fine by me.


bwaahaaha!!! Love it, that's an opera fan right there


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I think Donizetti has a leading edge in this poll because he has many more operas than Bellini does. Wonder what the result would be if we only compared the two based on their first 10 operas.


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## Meyerbeer Smith (Mar 25, 2016)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I think Donizetti has a leading edge in this poll because he has many more operas than Bellini does. Wonder what the result would be if we only compared the two based on their first 10 operas.


Ah, such undying classics as L'ira di Achille, Pigmalione, and Enrico di Borgogna?


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

NickFuller said:


> Ah, such undying classics as L'ira di Achille, Pigmalione, and Enrico di Borgogna?


__________________ :lol:


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Itullian said:


> Two Italian bel canto composers.
> 
> Who's more your cup of tea?
> :tiphat:


I'll take them both and dump Rossini!


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I would say if one of them is your cup of tea then the other will be too.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Donizetti is oolong and Bellini is Earl Grey.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> I was just rearranging my MP3 player and see I have 11 Donizetti operas on it, but only 4 Rossini and 2 Bellini. Definitely Donizetti is my favorite of the three.


Regardless of the numbers on my MP3 player, the fact that I have about 23 CD sets of Bellini's La Sonnambula and have been listining mostly to nothing else since 4 August suggests that I must like Bellini better than Donizetti or anyone else.

Am I crazy or just enraptured of it?


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Fritz Kobus said:


> Regardless of the numbers on my MP3 player, the fact that I have about 23 CD sets of Bellini's La Sonnambula and have been listining mostly to nothing else since 4 August suggests that I must like Bellini better than Donizetti or anyone else.
> 
> Am I crazy or just enraptured of it?


Are they mutually exclusive?


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Donizetti is oolong and Bellini is Earl Grey.


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