# Any tips when learning the tenor clef?!



## Stroopwafel

I am a bassoonist and a viola player  This obvs. means I have to read treble, alto, tenor and bass xD 
I struggle to read the tenor clef as I get it mixed up with the alto most of the time! 
any tips on helping read Mr Tenor??! (this can obvs apply to woodwind too! ) 
Thanks


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## emiellucifuge

Im afraid I dont know how to help you, but I love stroopwafels...


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## Delicious Manager

I don't know how you think learning the tenor clef is any different to learning the treble and bass. As a former cellist I just practised reading it until it was second nature. Perhaps I was helped slightly that, in the tenor clef, middle C seems a fifth below what is does in the bass clef, meaning that, for the corresponding notes in the tenor clef I, played one string higher (ie a 5th higher) than if I had been reading in the bass.

All that having been said, there are no magical shortcuts - just practice and hard work. As a bassoonist the tenor clef is as much of a necessity and reality for you as it was for me as a cellist, so the hard work will pay off in the long run.


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## Stroopwafel

Thank you very much!
Well, the reason I get confused is because the Alto clef is basically my first clef, and because it is basically a third lower, I just struggle to work out what the notes are sometimes. 
But yes, lots of practice!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Write out scales in the tenor clef and play them. That might help, but I couldn't say for sure. I'm not sure how _I_ learnt tenor clef though.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

All cellists, bassoonists and trombonists should be born being able to sight read tenor clef!


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## Stroopwafel

I will try my best 
Its a tad confusing having to read all 4!



ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> All cellists, bassoonists and trombonists should be born being able to sight read tenor clef!


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## Lunasong

You're not getting much sympathy or assistance for someone who's expressed they want to get better at something. Maybe it will help to highlight the C-line so you can easily spot it as the reference for the other notes. I agree with you that as both are C clefs and are only a couple pitches away from each other, it can get confusing. Practice, practice; as other have said.


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## Aksel

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> All cellists, bassoonists and trombonists should be born being able to sight read tenor clef!


Said trombonists should also, if ever embarking on Russian orchestral music, also be able to read alto clef (DAMN YOU, Shostakovitch!).

Whenever I read tenor clef, I think of it like I'm reading treble clef, but I think that might be a trombone thing.

Have you asked your teacher whether he/she could give you some exercises/etudes so that you could practice, preferably bass and tenor clef in the same etude. And practice, practice, practice.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Lunasong said:


> You're not getting much sympathy or assistance for someone who's expressed they want to get better at something. Maybe it will help to highlight the C-line so you can easily spot it as the reference for the other notes. I agree with you that as both are C clefs and are only a couple pitches away from each other, it can get confusing. Practice, practice; as other have said.


Soprano, mezzo-soprano and baritone clefs are also occasionally used in vocal music. As a composer I teach myself to read every clef I can think of fluently.


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## AmateurComposer

Lunasong said:


> You're not getting much sympathy or assistance for someone who's expressed they want to get better at something. Maybe it will help to highlight the C-line so you can easily spot it as the reference for the other notes. I agree with you that as both are C clefs and are only a couple pitches away from each other, it can get confusing. Practice, practice; as other have said.


While I want to offer you sympathy and assistance, I find it hard to do, because different people have different modes of learning. What works for me does not necessarily work for you. My approach to familiarize myself with a new clef is to shift the staff relative to a clef I am already familiar with. As time passes by this practice leads to some familiarity with the new clef. I say *some* familiarity, because in some occasions, such as multiple ledger lines, I still have difficulties.

Will this approach work for you? I do not know, but I hope so.


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## AndyS

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> All cellists, bassoonists and trombonists should be born being able to sight read tenor clef!


Strange you should say that - I was able to sight read tenor clef right from the off when I played trombone. I have no idea how I managed it, could just be that at the time my trombone teacher first showed it to me I was quite good at transposing keys

Saying that, it's been so long that I don't know that I could do it now!


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## Praeludium

I've never understood this tenor and alto clef thing. Alto clef might actuallly be useful, sometimes... but, really, what's the point of all this ?

We're told those clefs are here to make the reading easier, since they're supposed to allow the notes to be written without supplementary lines. 
But the fact is that : 
1) it's way easier to read an "octavied" treble clef, 
2) since things have changed a lot in the way we write and perceive music since the XVIth century, even with using a peculiar key which is supposed to fit the instrument's ambitus we can often see tons of supplementary lines (lately, I've found that in Brahms' cello sonata n°2 for instance : a tenor clef with the music written constantly in supplementary lines. What's the point, why not using a treble clef ?)

And there's one more thing that's getting on my nerves (I'm a very calm guy, apart from that  ), is that we're told we have to learn those ut-clefs because they're useful to read many instruments which transpose. This is a double absurdity.

We could write everything with treble and bass clef, sometimes with using octavia bassa (which is as easy to read as the normal clef...), and it wouldn't cause problem to anyone since using some supplementary lines doesn't really make things harder (pianists manage it very well for instance). But we don't. Why ? Don't know, and it sounds like pure non-sense to me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Praeludium said:


> I've never understood this tenor and alto clef thing. Alto clef might actuallly be useful, sometimes... but, really, what's the point of all this ?
> 
> We're told those clefs are here to make the reading easier, since they're supposed to allow the notes to be written without supplementary lines.
> But the fact is that :
> 1) it's way easier to read an "octavied" treble clef,
> 2) since things have changed a lot in the way we write and perceive music since the XVIth century, even with using a peculiar key which is supposed to fit the instrument's ambitus we can often see tons of supplementary lines (lately, I've found that in Brahms' cello sonata n°2 for instance : a tenor clef with the music written constantly in supplementary lines. What's the point, why not using a treble clef ?)
> 
> And there's one more thing that's getting on my nerves (I'm a very calm guy, apart from that  ), is that we're told we have to learn those ut-clefs because they're useful to read many instruments which transpose. This is a double absurdity.
> 
> We could write everything with treble and bass clef, sometimes with using octavia bassa (which is as easy to read as the normal clef...), and it wouldn't cause problem to anyone since using some supplementary lines doesn't really make things harder (pianists manage it very well for instance). But we don't. Why ? Don't know, and it sounds like pure non-sense to me.


People use those clefs because they've _always_ used those clefs and that's what the instrumentalists are used to. They don't want to have to suddenly learn how to read and play music in a clef that they hardly ever use.


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## Praeludium

Yeah I know but this is just irrational, complicated for nothing. And everyone can read treble and bass clef, since those are the first (at least in France but I guess it's the same elsewhere) we're asked to learn. Buh, I know that'll never change but I'll certainly not use them personally (apart from the fact that anyway I'll have to use them if I want to basics in conducting and to do some analyze.)


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## Jeff8Fitz

The tip I made up for learning the Tenor Clef is the lines bottom upwards
D F A C E
Dogs
Find 
Always
Cats
Evasive or Exciting

It’s a little corny/funny but it will help you Learn with a smile


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## Ingélou

Jeff8Fitz said:


> The tip I made up for learning the Tenor Clef is the lines bottom upwards
> D F A C E
> Dogs
> Find
> Always
> Cats
> Evasive or Exciting
> 
> It's a little corny/funny but it will help you Learn with a smile


 It's good - though the 'always' seems to come in the wrong part of the sentence.

How about -

Dave
Finds
Armoured
Cars
Exciting.


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## Cellofreak2020

So as a cellist I work a lot with bass, tenor, and treble. While learning tenor I found that just thinking a fifth above bass was the easiest method.


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