# The Piano Trio



## Guest (Oct 20, 2017)

Some absolutely wonderful works in this genre, going right back to Mozart. I'll start off with one of my personal favourites by Brahms, B Major, Op. 8 (a young work) with some very famous musicians. Absolute class!!


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Brahms op. 8 is where my love for chamber music began. My first version was Istomin/Stern/Rose.

I would note that Brahms did a major revision of it late in his career. The revised version is the one most often heard (although there are recordings of the earlier version).


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

Sorry - misbehaving wi-fi.

(I can’t believe my 1000th post was an error.)


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Mendelssohn. Piano Trio No. 1 in D minor Op. 49 - I. Martha Argerich & Capuçon brothers
I contribute this wonderful piece.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

My favourite chamber music genre. 

I imprinted on the two Schubert trios and then there is the fabulous recording by the Beaux Arts Trio of Hummel PTs.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2017)

Pugg, that Trio by Mendelssohn is an absolute joy!


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

It's a form I've never really explored all that much. I think I was put off after listening to an interminable evening with three boring trios in a reverberating hall. It sounded like too much competition between piano and strings and a bit like a cafe "orchestra".

I like Ravel's trio, but I hardly ever listen to it. Obviously Schubert's is the one most folks know - I'm about that level... I'm listening to the Mendelssohn one right now in an effort to catch up.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

^^ Schubert has two Piano Trios considered major works and his earlier D28, there is also the Notturno D897 a substantial work arranged for Piano Trio.

My favorites are all of Brahms works in the genre and the Ravel.

I've been enjoying this lately:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Mendelssohn also has two piano trios. Listened to the first earlier today, played by the Trio Wanderer. A solid, inspired work, though somehow I'm seldom moved to return to it. (I see Pugg posted this piece a bit earlier.)


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## vlncto (Nov 26, 2012)

I just published the score for the piano trio by Swiss composer *Hugo Käch* (1927-2003). The score and a sound snippet can be found here for free:

*www.tobias-broeker.de*


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> Pugg, that Trio by Mendelssohn is an absolute joy!


Glad you like it.


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## Janspe (Nov 10, 2012)

So much great music in this genre - Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms... Not to forget Haydn and Mozart! I also love the trios of Ravel and Shostakovich very much.

A lot of stuff lies in the unexplored territory for me, though. Arensky's D minor trio is apparently pretty good, but I don't know it at all. Same goes for Tchaikovsky - and even Dvořák, although I've heard a few of his trios once...

There's so much music to explore, it's a bit intimidating sometimes!


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## sbmonty (Jan 11, 2014)

Janspe said:


> So much great music in this genre - Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms... Not to forget Haydn and Mozart! I also love the trios of Ravel and Shostakovich very much.
> 
> A lot of stuff lies in the unexplored territory for me, though. Arensky's D minor trio is apparently pretty good, but I don't know it at all. Same goes for Tchaikovsky - and even Dvořák, although I've heard a few of his trios once...
> 
> There's so much music to explore, it's a bit intimidating sometimes!


I completely agree! These are most of my favourites. I'd add Fauré to the list, and Saint=Saëns' Op. 92 is excellent as well.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

Janspe said:


> So much great music in this genre - Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms... Not to forget Haydn and Mozart! I also love the trios of Ravel and Shostakovich very much.
> 
> A lot of stuff lies in the unexplored territory for me, though. Arensky's D minor trio is apparently pretty good, but I don't know it at all. Same goes for Tchaikovsky - and even Dvořák, although I've heard a few of his trios once...
> 
> There's so much music to explore, it's a bit intimidating sometimes!


It is sometimes said that Haydn's Piano Trios are accompanied piano sonatas. Anyway, I love Haydn and listen to as much of his music as I can. Not so much the symphonies - except the late ones.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

For me the finest Piano Trios ever written where the four by Franck all written and published before he was 21. They show a remarkable maturity and emotional depth that is very original for its time, also the cyclic form he uses is quite original, too.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

*Thank you for introducing me to that wonderful first opus by Cesar Franck* - a composer who didn't have it easy. The ostinato in that opening reminds me of Beethoven piano sonata No. 15 "_Pastoral_" - the final movement Rondo - which I'll post here:






Franck was treated contemptuously by Saint-Saens, the lesser composer IMO. The Franck Piano Trio Op. 1 does sound Brahmsian, which is understandable, yet the voice of Franck is still apparent despite the obvious influences.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

I didn't pay much attention to piano trios until I encountered the Beaux Arts Trio. It seems like just about everything they do resonates with me (there is one set that's a clunker, but I don't remember it; is it Brahms?); they took pieces which I thought were boring and made them compelling, at least to my ears.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

I see I wrote the wrong movement down in my posting of the Beethoven "Pastoral" Sonata for comparative purposes. Of course, it was the 2nd movement Andante.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

IMO, the king of all trios, the superlative of superlatives, The Beethoven Archduke, and one of the most astonishingly beautiful Andantes performed by the youngsters at the time: Barenboim, Du Pre and Zukerman:


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

*Would HAVE to agree with you*!! That opening...the Coen Brothers used it in the opening credits of their masterful film "The Man Who Wasn't There". It is, to date, their finest achievement.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I too enjoy the genre of the piano trio. Starting 13 months ago and ending in April of this year I compiled the Talk Classical Piano Trios Recommended List, which you can find here

There were many I got to know, because I was host. I think I listened to all 125 on the list. I have a few favourites and a few discoveries.

Favourites include Ravel, Chausson, Brahms 1, Shostakovich 2, Dvorak 3&4

Discoveries include Rebecca Clarke, Tanayev, Chopin, Smetena, Saint Saens.

And we included other instruments with piano. A few of my favourites are Poulenc Trio for oboe, bassoon and piano, Ligeti Trio for horn, cello and piano, Crumb Vox Balanae for Flute, Cello and piano, Farenc trio for flute, cello and piano.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Here are the top piano trios as voted on the now-defunct Amazon forum:

1 - Brahms: Piano Trio #1 in B major, Op. 8
2 - Shostakovich: Piano Trio #2 in E minor, Op. 67
3 - Beethoven: Piano Trio #7 in B-flat major, Op. 97, "Archduke"
4 - Brahms :Horn Trio, Op. 40 in E-flat major
5 - Beethoven: Piano Trio #5, Op. 70/1 in D major "Ghost"
6 - Mendelssohn: Piano Trio #1, Op. 49 in D minor
7 - Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio Op. 50 in A minor "In Memory of a Great Artist"
8 - Schubert: Piano Trio #2, Op. 100 in E-flat major
9 - Schubert: Piano Trio #1, Op. 99 in B-flat major
10 - Brahms: Piano Trio #2, Op. 87 in C major


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## jimsumner (Jul 7, 2013)

With all due respect, any list of piano trios that doesn't include the Ravel is badly flawed, IMO.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

jimsumner said:


> With all due respect, any list of piano trios that doesn't include the Ravel is badly flawed, IMO.


It's impossible to disagree with you. Lists are useless wastes of time anyway, IMO.


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## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> *Thank you for introducing me to that wonderful first opus by Cesar Franck* - a composer who didn't have it easy. The ostinato in that opening reminds me of Beethoven piano sonata No. 15 "_Pastoral_" - the final movement Rondo - which I'll post here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No problem, but Brahms was barely 9 when Franck published that trio. But you're right he didn't have it easy and if it wasn't for his symphony he would have barely made the history books when music like this proves he deserves much greater recognition.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

jimsumner said:


> With all due respect, any list of piano trios that doesn't include the Ravel is badly flawed, IMO.


We just finished a game of piano trios on the subform for polls and games. The Ravel came out on top.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

beetzart said:


> No problem, but Brahms was barely 9 when Franck published that trio. But you're right he didn't have it easy and if it wasn't for his symphony he would have barely made the history books when music like this proves he deserves much greater recognition.


Then this means that Brahms was influenced by Franck, not the other way around. And, of course, Dvorak is very Brahmsian too, particularly in the orchestra. It's a very young work by Franck! More likely it was the influence of Schumann. And have you ever noticed how similar some of Brahms's piano music is to Schumann's?


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I've barely heard any but I regularly listen to Alexei Stanchinsky's Piano Trio. I enjoy this piece a lot.


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## Anankasmo (Jun 23, 2017)

I love the Genre. Imo here the instruments are the most balanced and blend together in the Best way possible for a chamber ensemble.
Absolute favourites are Saint-Saëns 1 & 2, Francks 1, Mendelssohns 2 and Arenskys 1. Except the Franck all of the above stated are rather melodious and glimmering with Joy and beautiful colours. Try them!


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

jimsumner said:


> With all due respect, any list of piano trios that doesn't include the Ravel is badly flawed, IMO.


.....and no Haydn either. I would also have thought that Hummel would have one listing.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2017)

KenOC said:


> Here are the top piano trios as voted on the now-defunct Amazon forum:
> 
> 1 - Brahms: Piano Trio #1 in B major, Op. 8
> 2 - Shostakovich: Piano Trio #2 in E minor, Op. 67
> ...


I need to look into piano trios more than I have so far. I love Takemitsu and I see his name too (on Amazon). Anyway, time to start researching...


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Beethoven's "Ghost" trio is a huge favourite. So is Ravel's only piano trio. It's a shame that Ravel didn't write more chamber music, the very few works in this genre that he produced (particularly the string quartet and the piano trio) are of an extremely high standard.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

dogen said:


> I need to look into piano trios more than I have so far. I love Takemitsu and I see his name too (on Amazon). Anyway, time to start researching...


dogen (and everyone else) - Senza Sordino's "TC Top 125 Recommended Piano Trios List" is an excellent resource of suggested works and composers from Haydn to the present day, with plenty of 20th century works, and some contemporary ones, included. There's also a helpful 'Honourable Mentions' section below the main list.

I had great fun listening to as many of the nominations as I could during the project, and realised that I'd only really scratched the surface of the piano trio repertoire before. Trios by Hummel, Smetana, Rihm, Gubaidalina and Cerha were particularly good new discoveries for me.

The TC Top 125 Recommended Piano Trios List


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> dogen (and everyone else) - Senza Soprdino's "TC Top 125 Recommended Piano Trios List" is an excellent resource of suggested works and composers from Haydn to the present day, with plenty of 20th century works, and some contemporary ones, included. There's also a helpful 'Honourable Mentions' section below the main list.
> 
> I had great fun listening to as many of the nominations as I could during the project, and realised that I'd only really scratched the surface of the piano trio repertoire before. Trios by Hummel, Smetana, Rihm, Gubaidalina and Cerha were particularly good new discoveries for me.
> 
> The TC Top 125 Recommended Piano Trios List


Marv, thanks. I've already racked up a worrying number of choices on my Amazon wish list.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

dogen said:


> Marv, thanks. I've already racked up a worrying number of choices on my Amazon wish list.


Spotify is your friend in these delicate matters, I find!


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Spotify is your friend in these delicate matters, I find!


...and Youtube...

The ads on Spotify annoy me big time!

I've got the Rachmaninov No.2 in D minor. Quite exquisite.


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## josephhaydn (Apr 16, 2013)

i was listening to haydn piano trios 12-14 recently. 14 in a flat major is real pretty and then about halfway through changes keys to g major and has some interesting rhythmic arpegios on the piano, and the violin and cello hold it together with periodic stacatto harmony. changes keys alot too. fun to listen to, and sounds fun to play.


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## Melvin (Mar 25, 2011)

The Schubert piano trios are among his greatest works. I like the reconstructed Debussy piano trio. The Charles Wakefield Cadman trio is a little-known gem (which has a similar feeling to the Debussy trio), and it comes on a naxos CD paired with an equally good piano quintet.
I've always liked the recordings of the Beaux Arts Trio as well.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

beetzart said:


> For me the finest Piano Trios ever written where the four by Franck all written and published before he was 21. They show a remarkable maturity and emotional depth that is very original for its time, also the cyclic form he uses is quite original, too.


Agreed. I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all the finest, but they are massively overlooked, just like so much of his brilliant work.


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

This just further proves what Bernstein said (roughly): Brahm's wasn't just a stiff 'Classicist'. He was a restrained Romantic. How else do you account for all the drama, the soaring themes, the overflow of pure feeling in so much of his work:


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

I've concocted a little list from this thread (Brahms, Ravel, Schumann, Haydn, Faure, Shosty and Beethoven) so that's good. I particularly like chamber music from late 19th C to the first half of the 20 C. Any more names that fit that bill please?


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Would the piano trios of (Rebecca) Clarke, Copland, Debussy, Bridge, Bax, Magnard, Martinu, Ives, Poulenc, Smetana, Saint-Saens and Turina be of interest?


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Would the piano trios of (Rebecca) Clarke, Copland, Debussy, Bridge, Bax, Magnard, Martinu, Ives, Poulenc, Smetana, Saint-Saens and Turina be of interest?


Most certainly, thank you! These are mostly (9) composers that I've not checked out at all. There go my Christmas Amazon vouchers I bet.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Just to warn you that the Poulenc trio has unorthodox instrumentation - piano, oboe and bassoon, but like most Poulenc chamber music is delightful, and delightfully quirky.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> Just to warn you that the Poulenc trio has unorthodox instrumentation - piano, oboe and bassoon, but like most Poulenc chamber music is delightful, and delightfully quirky.


Which of those composers (if any) might give a high reading on the Scriabinometer? (Clearly, I just made that up).


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> It's impossible to disagree with you. Lists are useless wastes of time anyway, IMO.


This is not true from my perspective - The TC top Lists have been absolutely invaluable for me as a guide and a foot in the door in my CM journey. Where do you start with from 800 off years of music. A couple of books and the TC Top Lists for me.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

dogen said:


> Which of those composers (if any) might give a high reading on the Scriabinometer? (Clearly, I just made that up).


That *is* a difficult question!

No-one on my list approaches that sort of mystic pan-tonality that characterises late Scriabin for me.

Clarke, Bridge and Bax's mature trios, written in the first half of the 20th century, offer quite a bit of astringency / dissonance, especially Bridge's 2nd piano trio. I'm not all that familiar with the Magnard work despite having it on disc - I must go back to it. Martinu's trios are typically neo-classical - in my view the "Bergerettes" are best; Ives is Ives and crashingly dissonant with bizarre inclusion bodies such as a few snatched bars of "Oh Suzannah!".

Another name in the late 19th century piano trio repertoire, which initially slipped my memory - Dvorak, who wrote four, the last two being masterpieces.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> That *is* a difficult question!
> 
> No-one on my list approaches that sort of mystic pan-tonality that characterises late Scriabin for me.
> 
> ...


Ives was one of the names that I have come across. I have the Concord Sonata. I listen to it every now and then but I can't say it does much for me.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

TurnaboutVox said:


> That *is* a difficult question!
> 
> No-one on my list approaches that sort of mystic pan-tonality that characterises late Scriabin for me.
> 
> ...


Q.13

What does "pan-tonality" mean?

Extra marks will be awarded for examples.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

dogen said:


> Ives was one of the names that I have come across. I have the Concord Sonata. I listen to it every now and then but I can't say it does much for me.


I really like Ives' 1st symphony. I was very surprised when I first heard it as I was previously only familiar with his later, more dissonant work which I don't really care for. The 1st symphony is lovely though, it reminds me of Brahms as well as the early works of Sibelius and Nielsen in places.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

dogen said:


> Q.13
> 
> What does "pan-tonality" mean?
> 
> Extra marks will be awarded for examples.


I'm not, as a musical lay person, meaning to use it in any terribly technical way.

Here's roughly what I mean, from definitions found on the internet:



> "Pantonality. Term used to describe music that is not in one tonality or key, but shifts freely among many or all keys. May refer to 12-tone composition / serialism, or to "Pandiatonicism" - a musical technique of using the diatonic scale without the limitations of functional tonality (e.g as used by Stravinsky).





> "Certain ...composers, ...obsessed with the desire to expand the harmonic vocabulary but loath to abandon the tonal system entirely, experimented with some success with synthetic scales of their own devising and with chords built of intervals other than the third. These include the Russian mystic Aleksandr Scriabin and the German Paul Hindemith" (also early Bartok, Villa-Lobos etc.) Brittanica.com


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2017)

So goes the Amazon vouchers in search of the piano trio...


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## eugeneonagain (May 14, 2017)

Never heard the D'Indy one. I'm looking it up now...


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2017)

eugeneonagain said:


> Never heard the D'Indy one. I'm looking it up now...


I'd not heard _of him._


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