# Where to start with Liszt



## whispering (Oct 26, 2013)

Please can you help me. In past times I have attempted to delve into the music of Liszt but have found it very difficult. Not only the sheer amount of his works but also the ways I normally use to enter the world of a new composer to me are closed down. My passion is chamber music, so usually I would try a string quartet, piano trio or a sonata of some type. Clearly those routes are not open here. I tried the piano concertos and enjoyed them, but after that it is just a huge number of piano works. Yes I get it that was Liszt but how do you start to stroll through this composer’s works? Am I making sense?

Can you please guide me to some really well known pieces where I can dip my toe into the Liszt waters. I got into Schumann via the string quartets, moved onto his piano pieces and love his piano sonatas which I believe in MHO to be vastly under rated. With Schubert it was the piano trios and slowly I moved onto the piano sonatas. I love piano concertos but unless I am reading things wrong there are only the two for Liszt and one piano sonata, compared to the larger number by Beethoven.

One last request for help. I enjoy reading about the background of a composer. It helps me put matters into context. For example why Beethoven’s 5th piano concerto is called the Emperor concerto became clear when I understood his changing view of Napoleon. Are there any books on Liszt which would help me better understand the man. Not his music solely but the man as well, without the level of detail of what he had for breakfast each day of his life.

I am starting on what I call project Liszt this winter. My full time caring role ended earlier this year. I have found it hard getting over my mum’s death, but slowly I am getting back into classical music after a few years where everything mostly went on hold. Liszt is unknown to me, a large collection of piano works and the dark months to explore him in. Any advice would be most welcome.

Thank you. I find it informative to come to this forum and read the threads. I find it a polite and welcoming place, with clearly many well informed contributors.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

I find these two collections to be very pleasing. I would say the highlights are the Mephisto Waltz and the Totentanz, but it's all pretty engaging stuff.









https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7924227--liszt-orchestral-works









https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7924065--liszt-piano-concertos-nos-1-2

I don't have any literature to recommend beyond the entry in Jan Swafford's classical music guide.


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

While Liszt is most famous for piano pieces, I'd start with the tone/symphonic poems. The format of which BTW he's the inventor.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I support the suggestion to explore the tone poems. Personal favourites are Les Preludes, Tasso, and From the Cradle to the Grave.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

If you like choral music, his oratorio _Christus_ is quite wonderful - very long and not exceptionally dramatic but it contains a great deal of beautiful music and is one of the greatest choral works of the 19thc, IMO - a very far cry from the flashy, trashy stereotype of the composer. Otherwise try the Faust and Dante Symphonies; and for piano music, the Consolations, Harmonies poetiques et religeuse, and of course the great sonata are all close to my heart. Like Berlioz, Liszt was a great visionary and eccentric who certainly doesn't always hit the mark for me, but he was amazingly innovative and often isn't given enough credit for that.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Start by spelling the name correctly, Li*sz*t, then you will probably find suggestions more easily 

Totentanz (I prefer the piano solo)
Besides the b minor sonata among the most important piano pieces are the Transcendental studies, the Harmonies poetiques and religieuses and the longish, 3 volumes of Années de pelerinage. You may not care for all of the pieces included in these collections but probably find some that appeal. The Hungarian Rhapsodies are famous potboilers and fun once in a while but rather shallow.

admittedly, I never got into the tone poems (also I have listened to them) and never really listened to any of his vocal music.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

If you prefer chamber music, there is a recording by Trio Wanderer on Harmonia Mundi that has some versions of Liszt pieces for piano trio or for violin or cello & piano.









For piano music I'd suggest trying the first set of the _Années de pèlerinage_.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I agree his symphonic poems are the easiest to digest along with the piano concertos.

Among them I would recommend Hunnerschlacht (Battle of the Huns,) Hungaria, Mazeppa, Fesklange (Festival sounds,) Les Preludes, What One Hears On the Mountain and From the Cradle to the Grave.

I'd start with those less than 20 minutes' duration; if they appeal to you try the longer ones.

Liszt wrote two kinds of symphonic poems -- nationalist and philosophical. The names tell me which each is. For example Les Preludes is usually accompanied in booklets by Liszt's famous statement, "What is life but a series of preludes...?"

These and the piano concertos are all very bombastic, sometimes crude, and loud. For that reason they tend to work best in performances that exploit those qualities and less so in performances that try to civilize them.

One of the young Zubin Mehta's better records contained such performances:


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

There is a small amount of chamber pieces, including a violin sonata, other pieces based on earlier piano solo version and it is not without interest but I am doubtful that this is the best introduction or obvious expansion after the piano concertos

Duo - Sonate für Violine und Klavier
Ungarische Rhapsodie Nr. 9 - Pester Karneval
Erste & Zweite Elegie · Valse Caprice (Nr. 6)
Angelus - Prière aux Anges Gardiens · La lugubre Gondola
Richard Wagner - Venezia · Am Grabe Richard Wagners

https://www.oehmsclassics.de/artike...Kuen_Visions_-_Kammermusik_von_Franz_Liszt/en


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

My personal recommendations list of Liszt lists the tone poem _Les Preludes_ in the top position. Though not as sublime a work as, say, the Piano Sonata in B Minor or the _Années de pèlerinage_, the _Preludes_ remains quintessential Liszt. It's catchy of tune, delightfully bombastic, and memorable.

The _Totentanz_ belongs on any Liszt list listing "must hear Liszt" music. I would recommend the orchestral/piano version.

Add to the list Liszt's Piano Concerto No. 1. It's the splashy one, if not the more profound.

And of course there is the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2! Hey! A thousand cartoons can't be wrong. Can they?

In any case, that is the initial list I would offer to those looking to make an acquaintance with the man's music, by way of primary pieces that have proven (for good reason) to be popular.

Of course, in short, Liszt is much more than this short list can convey. To probe the deeper currents of the composer takes one into realms almost numinous or magical in their expressive powers. This list of Liszt tops with, I suggest, the B Minor Sonata. But it is a long list that weaves deeply through Liszt's long list of works. Don't miss any of the works already mentioned in this thread. Add the _Dante Symphony_, especially enjoyable after a reading of the Dante _Divine Comedy_.

There is much to explore. Begin the pilgrimage, and consider that you'll be on it for years to come.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> If you like choral music, his oratorio _Christus_ is quite wonderful - very long and not exceptionally dramatic but it contains a great deal of beautiful music and is one of the greatest choral works of the 19thc, IMO - a very far cry from the flashy, trashy stereotype of the composer.


Another vote for Christus. He doesn't get enough credit for his skills as a vocal composer.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Hopefully as this thread progresses you will be able to make a good *list* of *Lizst* pieces to *list*en to. Looking at my music folders I am afraid I will be of no help. It appears I have one disk and that a compilation of bits and pieces. Most familiar to me is that Lizst did piano transcriptions of all Beethoven's symphonies.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

He did piano transcriptions or "paraphrases" of anything that moved... Some very good one of several Schubert lieder as well (and Wandererfantasie as a piano concerto, I am not too fond of that one, though).


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

SONNET CLV said:


> And of course there is the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2! Hey! A thousand cartoons can't be wrong.


Certainly the first thing that sprang to my mind!


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> He did piano transcriptions or "paraphrases" of anything that moved... Some very good one of several Schubert lieder as well (and Wandererfantasie as a piano concerto, I am not too fond of that one, though).


His transcriptions of Bach organ works and the Beethoven symphonies may be the finest ever made.

As for what to listen to first, I say Totentanz and the Sonata in B minor.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Concerning music that is not piano or orchestral music:

Actually, there are some fine chamber works. Try the recordings of superb *music for cello and piano by Liszt*. Also, though less impressive, there's an early Violin Sonata called a *Duo Sonata*, which has its moments.

Anyone with a bit of interest in Liszt should try hearing the *Christus Oratorio* some time, such as in the excellent Dorati recording.

Those with a fondness for 20th century music should also try hearing the *Via Crucis*, probably in the choir+ piano version for a start.

(I see that most of this has been mentioned, but anyway ...)


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

First and foremost, I hope you're finding peace following your mother's passing. I'm sure that's what she herself would want to see.

Liszt isn't my biggest enthusiasm so I'll leave specific recommendations mostly to more knowledgeable fellow posters above, though I do recommend a lovely piece called "Hymne de l'enfant à son réveil" (part of the original collection entitled "Harmonies Poétiques et Réligieuses", a title which was later switched to a single piece - there's a beautiful recording of the former by Steven Osborne on the Hyperion label). 

Just an aside about the "Emperor" nickname - while it's probably contemporary with the piece, it didn't originate with Beethoven himself and I'm not sure how much it has to do with Beethoven's interest in Napoleon. The "Eroica" symphony is a good deal more relevant in that context.

Kind regards.


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## mossyembankment (Jul 28, 2020)

I'm not a big Liszt fan, and I know you aren't asking for solo piano music, but I have to mention this relatively early and unknown work that I've always liked, which I find less overwrought than most of his music (though I think to his devotees it's probably less interesting than his later work).


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)




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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

reminds me of Wagner (Hollander) in its use of chromatic scales (starting at 2:16):





2:28 ~ 3:28 is to me, one of Liszt's most passionate moments:




Liszt has this style in other pieces such as 





Not one of my favorites, but still very popular:





Notable for its Parisian salon "feel":


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

5:30 





5:17 





:devil:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Does anyone have any thoughts on his Variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen? I discovered it several years ago when I was in the middle of a personal crisis, and it was like Lizst was sitting with me through it, so I don't have an unbiased view of the piece.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I second the posts concerning his choral compositions and in addition to _Christus_, _Via Crucis_ is well worth hearing. I recommend one of the recordings (he's done three) by Reinbert de Leeuw - the Netherlands Chamber Choir version is the most accessible, but the ore recent one with the Collegium Vocale Gent is also very good.

View attachment 158112


I also wish to suggest some of his piano works, *the late works* especially, but one cannot address Liszt without referencing the _Sonata in B Minor_. Recordings by Zimerman, Agerich and Hamelin are all excellent.

View attachment 158110


View attachment 158111


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Kreisler jr said:


> The Hungarian Rhapsodies are famous *potboilers* and fun once in a while but rather *shallow*.


https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160817-franz-liszt-the-worlds-first-musical-superstar
Liszt virtually pioneered the concept of the "virtuoso-pianist superstar". I know of a composer who acted far more like a clown and still his worshippers (who even accuse Dvorak of "naviety") forbid ANY accusation or question on his status in classical music, with the the logic "he redefined instrumental music. He adhered to the popular taste of his time. He was internationally successful."


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

The later rhapsodies can have a certain, dark and more complicated "deepness" to them.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

hammeredklavier said:


> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160817-franz-liszt-the-worlds-first-musical-superstar
> Liszt virtually pioneered the concept of the "virtuoso-pianist superstar". I know of a composer who acted far more like a clown


I think you have been misled by Tom Hulce's portrayal in "Amadeus". Mozart was in fact not half the clown he appears there.


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

If you really want to dive into Liszt, Alan Walker wrote the authoritative, three-volume, Liszt biography. It is tremendous.

A great deal of Liszt's life was public and was documented in detail. He was hugely famous. More famous than most people imagine/realize. He, (Liszt) also wrote voluminously, so there is so much material that reading through the entire bio, you truly feel as if you knew Liszt, and you come to see his towering genius much more clearly.

He was wildly productive, so I can see where it would be overwhelming to try and figure out where to get started. I can offer a few recommendations.

Both Piano Concerti get abused by inferior pianists, or perhaps pianists who have not had the proper experience, or lived with the works long enough is a better way to say it, I'm sorry it's true, and so performances that do them justice are fewer than they should be, for how often they've been recorded. Richter/Kondrashin probably can't be topped, but Zimerman was also great in them, and Argerich's 1st should also be heard.

If you love the Beethoven Symphonies Liszt's piano transcriptions are a marvel. Cyprien Katsaris made the best complete traversal of these huge beasts, but Gould recorded the 5th and 6th magnificently, (if you are a Gould fan).

The Sonata has many amazing recordings - http://lextune.blogspot.com/2006/03/liszt-sonata.html

It is good to hear a few different approaches.

If you are a Wagner fan it is amazing to get to know some of Liszt's later works, he had some interesting influences on Wagner. Many of Liszt's later piano works are extremely ahead of their time harmonically, and there are a few nice collections of them. Leslie Howard's versions (Vol. 11 The Late Pieces) from his gargantuan Complete Music for Solo Piano recording is very well done and was my, and many others, introduction to a lot of the pieces when it was first released.

In the Transcendental Etudes I first recommend Arrau. No one treats them more musically. Arrau had been playing them for over 40 years by the time he recorded them. The color, the way he differentiates timbres, they are so beautifully done. To paraphrase another reviewer, it's like Arrau carves the Etudes out of the innards of the piano.

That said, the Etudes can dazzle in a more technical way too, (Arrau still has more than enough technique despite being 70 years old when he recorded them). I still remember the first time hearing Kissin play a selection of them in the mid-90s. Absolutely jaw-dropping technical achievements. He made a recording of them at the time and it is highly recommendable. Cziffra, Berman and Bolet also amaze technically as well as making some wonderful music.

Jorge Bolet is also great in Liszt's transcription of Wagner's Tannhauser Overture, recorded live at Carnegie Hall, it is one of the most powerful piano recording you'll ever hear. At that moment, that day, Bolet had to be the greatest pianist in the world.

As for the many other Operatic Transcriptions Liszt wrote, I again go to Howard, that may be because I got to know most of them through his recordings though, ha! And they don't get recorded a ton.

Annees de pelerinage (both of the first two Vols.) are one of the best paths into Liszt's music, they are beautiful, brilliant collections of piano pieces, and there are a wealth of great recordings, some complete, other just selections. Barenboim, Arrau, Berman, Brendel, Jando, Hough, on and on.


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## lextune (Nov 25, 2016)

hammeredklavier said:


> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160817-franz-liszt-the-worlds-first-musical-superstar
> Liszt virtually pioneered the concept of the "virtuoso-pianist superstar"


Nothing virtual about it. He quite literally invent the solo piano recital; coined the term and everything.

He also remolded the entirety of pianistic technique. No piano music after Liszt escapes his influence. It is impossible to overstate Liszt's impact on and over all things related to the piano. The literature, teaching, technique, transcription, "recitals", touring, stage presence, showmanship, the instrument itself, on and on and on.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

lextune said:


> Nothing virtual about it. He quite literally invent the solo piano recital; coined the term and everything.
> He also remolded the entirety of pianistic technique. No piano music after Liszt escapes his influence. It is impossible to overstate Liszt's impact on and over all things related to the piano. The literature, teaching, technique, transcription, "recitals", touring, stage presence, showmanship, the instrument itself, on and on and on.


https://www.cpr.org/2014/10/20/how-franz-liszt-changed-concert-performances-forever/

"Liszt told a friend, "I don't know what other name to give these inventions of mine. ... Imagine that, I have ventured to give a series of concerts all by myself, affecting the Louis XIV style and ... saying cavalierly to the public 'Le concert c'est moi.' The concert is me."

Liszt set a precedent by situating the piano differently. He was the first to place it at a right angle to the stage. The open lid projected the sound better into the hall and allowed audiences to see him in profile.

He was also the first to enter from the wings onto the stage.

After doing so, Liszt would perform from memory. Nobody had done that before."


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

lextune said:


> If you are a Wagner fan it is amazing to get to know some of Liszt's later works, he had some interesting influences on Wagner. Many of Liszt's later piano works are extremely ahead of their time harmonically, and there are a few nice collections of them.


I don't know just how influential Liszt was, but he was my first choice for that thread "Underrated composers." I rather enjoy his and Wagner's style of harmony more than their contemporaries, but I do think most of the popular composers, Bach, Brahms, Liszt, Wagner, Schubert, suffer from a kind of cheesiness in their harmonic choices which stems from their experimental phase. This is most obvious in Bach's Baroque influence, and I think Liszt was one who broke a lot of new grounds on the way to 'evening-out' harmonic form better. Don't forget Liszt's orchestral works.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Ethereality said:


> I don't know just how influential Liszt was


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Manxfeeder said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on his Variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen? I discovered it several years ago when I was in the middle of a personal crisis, and it was like Lizst was sitting with me through it, so I don't have an unbiased view of the piece.


I love Liszt and don't mean to be sour in dumping on a piece that helped you in a difficult time, but I don't think BWV 12 and Liszt's virtuosic passages are a good mix.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

dissident said:


> I love Liszt and don't mean to be sour in dumping on a piece that helped you in a difficult time, but I don't think BWV 12 and Liszt's virtuosic passages are a good mix.


Then I'll just keep it to myself. :tiphat:


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## 59540 (May 16, 2021)

Manxfeeder said:


> Then I'll just keep it to myself. :tiphat:


No, that's OK, it's just my honest feeling. If you love it, you love it, and it does have some fine moments. Heck, maybe I'm just too obtuse to pick up on the greatness of a piece of music. It wouldn't be the first time.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Manxfeeder said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on his Variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen? I discovered it several years ago when I was in the middle of a personal crisis, and it was like Lizst was sitting with me through it, so I don't have an unbiased view of the piece.


Have you heard the recording by *Cyprien Katsaris*? I prefer it to the one by Maria Yudina. There's also a version for organ.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

dissident said:


> I love Liszt and don't mean to be sour in dumping on a piece that helped you in a difficult time, but I don't think BWV 12 and Liszt's virtuosic passages are a good mix.


What's the difference between virtuoso and pre-expressionist? I never liked the term virtuosic to primarily describe Liszt's philosophy, but what do others have to say? Here 10 out of 100 most difficult pieces have his name behind them. Though I imagine there are harder early rom pieces than what's shown. Some pianists remark "he's not _terribly_ difficult."


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## Lisztian (Oct 10, 2011)

Manxfeeder said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on his Variations on Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen? I discovered it several years ago when I was in the middle of a personal crisis, and it was like Lizst was sitting with me through it, so I don't have an unbiased view of the piece.





dissident said:


> I love Liszt and don't mean to be sour in dumping on a piece that helped you in a difficult time, but I don't think BWV 12 and Liszt's virtuosic passages are a good mix.


These variations are among my favourite piano works of all time...but the first few times I listened to it I had a similar impression to you, dissident. One day a switch just flipped.

My go-to performance is this visceral outpouring by Mark Salman:


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

SanAntone said:


> Have you heard the recording by *Cyprien Katsaris*? I prefer it to the one by Maria Yudina. There's also a version for organ.


I'm listening on Spotify. Thanks for the heads-up!


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## Livly_Station (Jan 8, 2014)

My personal journey with Liszt started with his "virtuoso piano repertoire": all those exciting famous pieces that pianists like to play to show off their skills (some of the études, hungarian rhapsodies, etc). At that time I was starting to play the piano (that's what got me in classical music) and I would daydream about playing all those incredibly difficult pieces filled with amazing jumps, dazzling arpeggios, powerful banging of the keys alongside delicate upper-register technique, so listening to them was always rewarding.

I must say that calling them simply "virtuoso pieces" is a disservice to their beauty and craft. They may not be the most introspective pieces that will give you philosophical insight into the human soul, but the best of them are truly imaginative, fun and have outstanding sound design for the piano. So I'd highly recommend getting into Liszt through his Études.
Trifonov has released a great album recording Liszt's best sets of Études: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mn_tVMtQAV2Vz4EaMMeVzBk4gN5O9muMs

Because I love Liszt's piano solo repertoire so much, my favorite work by him is the infinitely beautiful _Années de Pèlerinage_, especially the first and third sets. They showcase the most poetic and insightful side of Liszt, alongside all the range of his piano technique and compositional mastery. It's truly ahead of its time.
Here's a relatively new recording of the complete cycle by the pianist Bertrand Chamayou, who's really good at bringing out the textures in the music: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m_04GJrKXo45dspnpw6m1bsbe7YHRirtY

Other piano masterpieces include the _Sonata in B minor_, _Harmonies Poétiques et Religieuses_, the _Mephisto Waltz_ and other miscellaneous late works.

I truly believe that the soul and genius of Franz Liszt is most easily found in his piano repertoire, so that's where I'd recommend you to start.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

Can a moderator correct the spelling of Liszt in the thread title?


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## progmatist (Apr 3, 2021)

SanAntone said:


> Can a moderator correct the spelling of Liszt in the thread title?


It might be on their to do Liszt.


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## Tempesta (Sep 2, 2021)

Leslie Howard's monumental Hyperion box set of Liszt's piano works is well worth a deep dive. I spent the last couple of months soaking it up, keeping me afloat on jaw-dropping sonic waves.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

SanAntone said:


> Can a moderator correct the spelling of Liszt in the thread title?


Done. By the way, this goes a lot quicker if you drop one of us a PM rather than posting and hoping a mod will notice.
:tiphat:


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

Two options here and both are piano music,

Listen to his Paganini Etudes and can I recommend Cecile Ousset here along with Marc-Andre Hamelin. Start with La Campanella which is the third of the six and then explore the others. I'd probably move on to number 5 "La Chasse".

My next move would be a selection of his Schubert Lieder transcriptions. Not his own music but definitely his musical writing. 

Many options on YT or Spotify.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

Not a huge fan of Hamelin's set myself - technically white-hot, for sure, but to me he sounds almost bored in places and tries to spice things up by pulling the music about a sight too much for my liking. I do rate Ousset though.


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## perempe (Feb 27, 2014)

The Top 10 according to a book:

Symphonies:
Faust Symphony

Other Orchestral Works:
Piano Concerto no. 1
Totentanz for Piano and Orchestra
Symphonic Poems:
No. 2, Tasso
No. 3, Les Préludes
Hungarian Rhapsodies:
Nos. 2, 5, 6, 9, 12, 14

Piano Music:
Hungarian Rhapsodies for Piano (nineteen)
Mephisto Waltz No. 1
Sonata in B Minor
Liebesträume


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