# Arpeggione Sonata by Schubert



## peeyaj

Is anyone familiar with this lovely masterpiece? It was written originally for the arpeggione but now it was played by cello and violin? DDD ranked it second to Beethoven' Sonata for Cello and Piano No. 3 in A major for cello sonatas.

My favorite recording is by Rostropovich and Britten. It is such a sublime recording.








also Yo-yo Ma and Emmanuel Ax..








Discuss..


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## Clementine

This is one of my favorite works in the genre, second perhaps only to Brahms' e minor, though it's a tough call. I really like the overall structure of the piece; the middle movement is the shortest, but to my ears contains the most passion, and is really a turning point in mood. The first movement switches back and forth between melancholy and light, the middle movement contemplates, and the finale blossoms. A beautiful piece from beginning to end. 

I have an excellent recording of performers I'm not familiar with: Antonio Meneses and Gérard Wyss. 


Also, does anyone else sing "doe, a deer" every time they hear the opening melody of the finale?


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## Klavierspieler

On a modern replica, too bad it's only an excerpt:


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## peeyaj

I don't like the sound of the arpeggione.


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## peeyaj

Clementine said:


> Also, does anyone else sing "doe, a deer" every time they hear the opening melody of the finale?


I know what you're saying.. )


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Recommended recording:


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## Andy Loochazee

peeyaj said:


> Is anyone familiar with this lovely masterpiece?


 Well of course. It's mainstream Schubert, isn't it? The best versions are on cello. Lynn Harrell's version is good, as too is the one with Emanuel Feuerrman. I (we) may have a few others, but these two are the ones that get played most often.


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## peeyaj

Andy Loochazee said:


> Well of course. It's mainstream Schubert, isn't it? The best versions are on cello. Lynn Harrell's version is good, as too is the one with Emanuel Feuerrman. I (we) may have a few others, but these two are the ones that get played most often.


I admit I am really not familiar with the recordings you mentioned. The versions that I have is with Rostropovich and Britten playing, with Yo-yo Ma and Ax, my second favorite.

I'll go and check them out. Thanks for the tip.


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## Taneyev

Best recording I've was great Leonard Rose with Leonid Hambro. Rose was extraordinary


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## Ukko

peeyaj said:


> I don't like the sound of the arpeggione.


I don't know how you determined that from this poorly recorded excerpt. This gives me the impression that it sounds like a light-bodied viola da gamba. I wonder what it actually does sound like.


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## peeyaj

Hilltroll72 said:


> I don't know how you determined that from this poorly recorded excerpt. This gives me the impression that it sounds like a light-bodied viola da gamba. I wonder what it actually does sound like.


Pardon. I should have been clearer. 

Here it is, played by an arpeggione in its entirety.


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## Ukko

peeyaj said:


> Pardon. I should have been clearer.
> 
> Here it is, played by an arpeggione in its entirety.


Thanks, _peeyaj_. It still sounds like a light-bodied viola da gamba. 

Seems like this music ought to work for viola; is there a transposition problem?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^IMO it works better for viola than cello anyway.


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## peeyaj

Hilltroll72 said:


> Thanks, _peeyaj_. It still sounds like a light-bodied viola da gamba.
> 
> Seems like this music ought to work for viola; is there a transposition problem?


I read somewhere:

''The three-movement Sonata must bealtered somewhat if it is to be played on cello or viola: the arpeggione possessed six strings, tuned to the same pitches as a guitar's, and the resulting extended range can cause problems when the piece is transcribed; in most editions, certain portions of the piece are transposed up or down an octave from their original position to avoid the extreme registers.''

Hilltroll, frankly I never heard the ''light-bodied viola de gamba'' before.. Is it the same as the standard viola??


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## Ukko

peeyaj said:


> Hilltroll, frankly I never heard the ''light-bodied viola de gamba'' before.. Is it the same as the standard viola??


Far as I know, there is no such beastie. The sound is what I would expect a light-bodied viola da gamba to sound like, if there were such a thing.

If one were to replace the neck and bridge on an 'auditorium' size classical guitar with arched creations (frets or no frets, roll your own) that would allow the use of a bow, what would you expect it to sound like?


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

peeyaj said:


> I read somewhere:
> 
> ''The three-movement Sonata must bealtered somewhat if it is to be played on cello or viola: the arpeggione possessed six strings, tuned to the same pitches as a guitar's, and the resulting extended range can cause problems when the piece is transcribed; in most editions, certain portions of the piece are transposed up or down an octave from their original position to avoid the extreme registers.''
> 
> Hilltroll, frankly I never heard the ''light-bodied viola de gamba'' before.. Is it the same as the standard viola??


That is why I posted the link to Amazon of the recording played by John Williams.


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## moody

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Recommended recording:


This seems a very strange idea and pointless.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> This seems a very strange idea and pointless.


What's 'very strange' about it, _moody_? The guitar has all the notes, it just doesn't have the dwell. Have you heard it?


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> What's 'very strange' about it, _moody_? The guitar has all the notes, it just doesn't have the dwell. Have you heard it?


Quoting from the Harrell/Levine record sleeve : "...Johann Georg Staufer, who in 1823 inventeed the Arpeggione, a cross between a cello and a guitar. the instrument had six strings and was played with a bow but had 24 frets on the fingerboard."
Now if John Williams plays his guitar with a bow on the recording mentioned I will withdraw my comments. If not I would have thought a plucking sound to be completely wrong.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> Quoting from the Harrell/Levine record sleeve : "...Johann Georg Staufer, who in 1823 inventeed the Arpeggione, a cross between a cello and a guitar. the instrument had six strings and was played with a bow but had 24 frets on the fingerboard."
> Now if John Williams plays his guitar with a bow on the recording mentioned I will withdraw my comments. If not I would have thought a plucking sound to be completely wrong.


OK. You think of it as wrong. I'd have to hear it, to see if maybe it works for me as music. You probably regard the composer as more of an authority figure than I do.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> OK. You think of it as wrong. I'd have to hear it, to see if maybe it works for me as music. You probably regard the composer as more of an authority figure than I do.


For once I don't understand you---You probably regard the composer as more of an authority figure than i do ???
This piece was written for the extinct instrument but it was played with a bow, Yes?


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## Ukko

moody said:


> For once I don't understand you---You probably regard the composer as more of an authority figure than i do ???
> This piece was written for the extinct instrument but it was played with a bow, Yes?


Yes. Played with a guitar, the chances are pretty good it's going to sound different. Doesn't mean it has to sound bad. The more we discuss it, the more curious I get.


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Yes. Played with a guitar, the chances are pretty good it's going to sound different. Doesn't mean it has to sound bad. The more we discuss it, the more curious I get.


I give in, I've heard that there is a version played on the harmonium and penny whistle due to be issued shortly.


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## Andy Loochazee

I can't believe that playing the Arpeggione sonata on a 6 string guitar with a plucking action would generate anything like the right sound, compared with use of an arpeggione proper. What's missing using a cello instead of an arpeggione is of course a section of the higher registers caused by drop from 6 to 4 strings. To compensate for this, there have been a tiny few recordings using a piccolo cello, but I'm informed they sound rather naff. Like I said before, the Harrell/Levine recording using an ordinary cello is very good. The playing is as technically faultless as I far as my ears can judge, the emotional impact is faithful to good ol' Schubert, and the sound quality is good. The other version one I mentioned previously (Feuermann/Moore) earlier seems to be out of print, and having re-played this version it's not that good after all, so forget it.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> I give in, I've heard that there is a version played on the harmonium and penny whistle due to be issued shortly.




I hope someone puts at least a teaser on YouTube; a minute ought to be enough.


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## elgar's ghost

Desperate attempt to find middle ground between new and old: can a Chapman Stick be played with a bow? :devil:

Strange how one of Schubert's more singular chamber works (as in instrumentation) is also one of his more overlooked. I'm guilty of it more than most as I rarely see beyond the octet, 'trout', late quartets, piano trios and quintet, yet the AS is a fine work.


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