# Krystian Zimerman's unforgivable absence of Beethoven piano sonatas recordings



## Rubens

One of the greatest pianists of all time. Has recorded major solo works by Schubert, Chopin, Liszt, Debussy.
+ One of the top Beethoven concerto cycles.
Has all the attributes to produce the best rendition of arguably the greatest monument in solo piano literature.
Every other great pianist has recorded at least one Beethoven sonata, even those whose styles were not the most suitable for his music (e.g., Gould, Horowitz, Cortot).
For a pianist of Zimerman's stature, this omission is unforgivable. Ok, Lipatti didn't do it either, but he was planning to tackle Beethoven before his untimely death. What is Zimerman's excuse??


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## Mandryka

I have a copy of him playing op 110 in Princeton in 2010 which I can let you have if you want, and op 13 in Vienna in 2010, PM me and let me know here that you’ve sent message. Clearly in 2010 he was experimenting with Beethoven. I believe that there is a recording of the Waldstein by him, if anyone has it please share! 


My suspicion is that he doesn’t like the music very much. My suspicion is that we’ve passed the days when Beethoven was thought to be so central to music that every pianist felt the need to record his interpretation.


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## flamencosketches

That is really strange. I'm not very familiar with this pianist and haven't heard much of his playing. From what I have heard, though, I was under the impression that he was a Beethoven specialist. Hasn't he recorded all of the concerti multiple times? Pretty damn good recordings too. He's recorded none of the sonatas? Outside of the two live recordings mentioned by Mandryka, of course, which are perhaps not well known...?


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## tdc

I think ideally performers should only record the music they are inspired to perform, and not everyone's tastes are the same so musicians shouldn't feel obligated to record music just because others have or it is "arguably the greatest monument..." etc. 

I'm no pro but that said I have no desire to ever attempt a Beethoven sonata. They are just so daunting and massive. I remember a pianist that used to post here named Bettina (she was a big Beethoven fan) but said she didn't even recommend playing through a whole sonata during most practice sessions. There is just something that strikes me as slightly ridiculous about that.


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## Mandryka

Here's a negative review of some Beethoven he played in London, I missed the concert, the point that Edward Seckerson makes about him in the second movement of op 111 sounds very plausible to me -- I mean I can imagine that problem from what I know about Zimerman's style.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...merman-royal-festival-hall-london-835768.html


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## Enthusiast

tdc said:


> I think ideally performers should only record the music they are inspired to perform, and not everyone's tastes are the same so musicians shouldn't feel obligated to record music just because others have or it is "arguably the greatest monument..." etc.


I do agree. These days it is all about sets and completeness. I very much respect Richter's refusal to play pieces that didn't rock his boat even though that means we have multiple recordings of some works from him and no sets.


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## DavidA

Deleted...............


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## Larkenfield

Here's his live performance of Sonata No. 8... and I must say that I was rather disappointed in his choice of such a fast tempo, his hurried and rushed-sounding interpretation, his abrupt and explosive dynamic changes, and what sounded to me as his rather disinterested, perhaps overly professional approach... to possibly get it over with. I heard most of it then lost interest and didn't get the feeling that he particularly enjoyed the composer or understood him, based on this performance, though he has recorded all the concertos... Overall in his career, he appears highly selective in what he records, and if this is an example of how he feels about the Beethoven sonatas, perhaps it's better that he never tried to record a complete cycle - or maybe he was just having an off day. Nevertheless, in the music that interests him, such as his performances of the Chopin Ballades, I think he's one of the greatest of pianists.


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## Mandryka

The op 110 from Princeton, I can't share it easily on the forum but if it's here if anyone wants it, is professional and accurate but in those terms it's very fine nonetheless, his recent Schubert was a bit like that. I don't much like op 13 so I can't bring myself to listen to it! 

In some ways he's like Edwin Fischer post war, or at least that's something worth exploring maybe.


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## Bigbang

Murray Perahia has not recorded all the sonatas of Beethoven. I thought one of the issues has to do with so many sonatas requiring an understanding of all of them and being able to translate it to the recordings. Then the artist has to endure the comparisons of all the complete sonatas to their output.


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## Rubens

I'm not asking for a complete cycle by Zimerman (which would be a nice addition). But just one official recording of a few sonatas is not asking too much. There are 32 to choose from, surely he must have some favorites?


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## Bulldog

Rubens said:


> For a pianist of Zimerman's stature, this omission is unforgivable. Ok, Lipatti didn't do it either, but he was planning to tackle Beethoven before his untimely death. What is Zimerman's excuse??


He doesn't need one. Zimerman may record whatever he wants - what you want him to record means nothing.


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## Rubens

Bulldog said:


> He doesn't need one. Zimerman may record whatever he wants - what you want him to record means nothing.


This would be true if we were not talking about LvB piano sonatas. Do you not know the place they hold in the piano literature? It would be like a great conductor who has never recorded a Beethoven symphony. But maybe you don't know much about orchestral music either.


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## premont

Mandryka said:


> My suspicion is that we've passed the days when Beethoven was thought to be so central to music that every pianist felt the need to record his interpretation.


Considering that new recordings of the Beethoven sonatas and that finished and ongoing cycles still are legio, I do not understand this your point.


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## Bulldog

Rubens said:


> This would be true if we were not talking about LvB piano sonatas. Do you not know the place they hold in the piano literature?


What you say above is irrelevant.


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## Josquin13

I suspect Zimerman is too self-critical, as a pianist. I've never understood why he won't allow his 1978 LP of Mozart Piano Sonatas to be released on CD, if that is indeed the case? It's one of the finest recordings he's made, IMO.


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## Rubens

Josquin13 said:


> I suspect Zimerman is too self-critical, as a pianist. I've never understood why he won't allow his 1978 LP of Mozart Piano Sonatas to be released on CD, if that is indeed the case? It's one of the finest recordings he's made, IMO.


I agree. I think he did the same with his Brahms sonatas recording. This is unfortunate. The potential treasures that he is withholding.


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## Josquin13

Yes, I had heard that Zimerman won't allow his 1980 Brahms Piano Sonatas 1-3, Scherzo, & Four Ballades on DG to be reissued. But at least it was obtainable on CD for a time, even though the set is now scarce. As a result, people know how remarkable Zimerman's solo Brahms is. Whenever I rave about his Brahms Piano Sonata No. 3, for instance, others will chime in enthusiastically. In contrast, whenever I rave about his 1978 LP of Mozart sonatas, I never seem to be talking to anyone who's actually heard it, or knows that Zimerman even recorded Mozart (which was obviously his objective!). If they had, then I think they'd agree that it should be released on CD, and also see it as a shame that he hasn't given us any more Mozart. IMO, Zimerman's style of playing is particularly well suited to Mozart, and a set of either the piano sonatas or piano concertos (or even selected piano concertos) would have been wonderful.

My guess is that Zimerman is too hyper focused on being a perfect, great pianist that he's constantly censoring himself. He needs to ease up, and just play, let the music flow out of him, rather than micromanaging everything. Spontaneity, or creating on the spot, is such a crucial & vitally important part of music making, whether it's live or in the studio. Then, if looking back he regrets a recording, or feels that he could have offered a better interpretation, then re-record it, like Glenn Gould did with the Bach Goldberg Variations, or just accept that that was how he saw the music back at that time. Zimerman seems to me to be too self-conscious about creating the 'greatness' of his legacy. 

I've read that he has every concert he plays recorded, in an endeavor to save those tapes that are most special--his "great recitals", I gather for posterity?, but this practice could seriously backfire on him one day. If a record label were ever to get a hold of Zimerman's cache of live performances, it would completely negate all the painstaking care he's taken over the decades to release only those recordings that he considers his best. Suddenly, there would be a glut of live Zimerman recordings on the market--perhaps in an 88 CD box set, which I'd imagine would be a nightmare for him, and the very opposite of what he's intended all these years. 

Granted, perhaps that is just part of his character, to be a perfectionist. Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli was like that, too. I suppose we should be grateful for what they have given us, and leave it at that. Since being a professional musician, and playing in front of the public--all around the world--is obviously no easy path to take.


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## Schoenberg

Rubens said:


> This would be true if we were not talking about LvB piano sonatas. Do you not know the place they hold in the piano literature? It would be like a great conductor who has never recorded a Beethoven symphony. But maybe you don't know much about orchestral music either.


I suspect it would be different for a conductor, because if a conductor were to say "no Beethoven symphonies" the person who owns the orchestra would probably kick them out in place of a different conductor.


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## BillT

I have to agree. What do I know? Boy, he sure seems like one of the greatest of our times. I have only recently come across his work - he will not perform in the US - and now that I am in Europe for a time I REALLY hope to hear him! If you haven't heard / watched his performance here with Bernstein, you better! Just look at Lenny's obvious love of his work.



Rubens said:


> One of the greatest pianists of all time. Has recorded major solo works by Schubert, Chopin, Liszt, Debussy.
> + One of the top Beethoven concerto cycles.
> Has all the attributes to produce the best rendition of arguably the greatest monument in solo piano literature.
> Every other great pianist has recorded at least one Beethoven sonata, even those whose styles were not the most suitable for his music (e.g., Gould, Horowitz, Cortot).
> For a pianist of Zimerman's stature, this omission is unforgivable. Ok, Lipatti didn't do it either, but he was planning to tackle Beethoven before his untimely death. What is Zimerman's excuse??


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## BillT

Mandryka said:


> I have a copy of him playing op 110 in Princeton in 2010 which I can let you have if you want, and op 13 in Vienna in 2010, PM me and let me know here that you've sent message. Clearly in 2010 he was experimenting with Beethoven. I believe that there is a recording of the Waldstein by him, if anyone has it please share!
> 
> My suspicion is that he doesn't like the music very much. My suspicion is that we've passed the days when Beethoven was thought to be so central to music that every pianist felt the need to record his interpretation.


PM Sent to you about Op 110


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## Mandryka

Mandryka said:


> I have a copy of him playing op 110 in Princeton in 2010 which I can let you have if you want, and op 13 in Vienna in 2010, PM me and let me know here that you've sent message. Clearly in 2010 he was experimenting with Beethoven. I believe that there is a recording of the Waldstein by him, if anyone has it please share!
> 
> .


I have Zimerman's Waldstein, Salzburg 1988


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## Animal the Drummer

I have the Mozart sonata LP and it's a fine recording. I can't help wondering whether, at that time anyway, he might have been thinking about recording more, because (with the possible exception of K330) none of the featured sonatas are major works.


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## Mandryka

Animal the Drummer said:


> I have the Mozart sonata LP and it's a fine recording. I can't help wondering whether, at that time anyway, he might have been thinking about recording more, because (with the possible exception of K330) none of the featured sonatas are major works.


He gave K 330 in Vienna in 2010, very different. (I have a recording)


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## Kreisler jr

I think I read somewhere, that Zimerman found that these banned DG recordings didn't reproduce his piano sound properly. (It's only very few, I think, the Mozart, Brahms and maybe another one or two LPs worth?) 
But for some reason he kept recording with them anyway (although I don't know if with the same technical team).


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## Art Rock

Josquin13 said:


> Yes, I had heard that Zimerman won't allow his 1980 Brahms Piano Sonatas 1-3, Scherzo, & Four Ballades on DG to be reissued. But at least it was obtainable on CD for a time, even though the set is now scarce.


Oooooh, I have that double CD set. Do I actually have a rarity in my collection?


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## Open Book

Maybe Zimerman is trying to drive up the price of his own recordings. When they reach a high enough value he'll sell his copies and not have to work anymore.

I'm all for performers recording only music they really want to record rather than being "complete". In my opinion a conductor can record 103 out of Haydn's 104 symphonies if he wants to.

But it seems strange for a performer to record all Beethoven concertos multiple times, successfully, and barely a single one of Beethoven's piano 32 sonatas. Can he really like the one and not the other format by the same composer?

Emanuel Ax seems to have a dearth of recordings, too, especially Beethoven sonatas which I have enjoyed by him. Some pianists may not be into making recordings of their work.


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## Kreisler jr

People are strange, artists are stranger... 
Martha Argerich has been performing/recording almost no solo pieces for decades and for concertos/solos she stuck to the same rather restricted repertoire, but she played all kinds of chamber music.
With all respect to Zimerman, from Argerich's recordings of Beethoven's violin/cello sonatas (and to a lesser extent her concertos 1-3) I think that having no Beethoven solo piano sonatas with prime Argerich might be the greater loss.
But it is certainly puzzling in both cases that they could not be bothered to record at least a selection of sonatas.


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## Animal the Drummer

Open Book said:


> Maybe Zimerman is trying to drive up the price of his own recordings. When they reach a high enough value he'll sell his copies and not have to work anymore.
> 
> I'm all for performers recording only music they really want to record rather than being "complete". In my opinion a conductor can record 103 out of Haydn's 104 symphonies if he wants to.
> 
> But it seems strange for a performer to record all Beethoven concertos multiple times, successfully, and barely a single one of Beethoven's piano 32 sonatas. Can he really like the one and not the other format by the same composer?


I kind of see where Zimerman might be coming from on that. I've always loved the Beethoven concertos (and some of the sonatas) but quite a few, perhaps even most, of the sonatas inspire my interest rather than my real affection.


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## Bruckner Anton

His playing style fits into Beethoven's sonatas quite well. The lack of his recordings is probably due to commercial reasons rather than technical ones. For example, the label he works with (such as DG) might not want Zimerman's Beethoven sontata recordings to cannibalize the market of Pollini or Gilels's recordings of the same works.


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## Parley

There are other pianists who haven’t made a great show of Beethoven piano sonatas. Argerich is one.


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## Kreisler jr

In both cases it is not the mere absence of sonata recordings or performances. But that Zimerman made highly regarded recordings of the concertos and Argerich played also 3 of them and mOst of the chamber music with piano. So it cannot be that they dislike Beethoven's music.


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## Allegro Con Brio

He has released another complete set of Beethoven piano concerti with Rattle even though he already recorded a very good one with Bernstein (albeit somewhat hampered by Lenny’s indulgent tempi). Why? There is so much other repertoire in which I would love to hear his sterling perfectionist style - Rachmaninoff, Bach, Schumann, and, yes, Beethoven sonatas. Oh well - I’m not the one making millions, so who am I to say. The Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, and Brahms that he has given us is very special and should be treasured.


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## lextune

It would be worse if he recorded Beethoven Sonatas merely for the sake of recording them.

One must feel an inspired connection to create a meaningful interpretations. 

He has many wonderful recordings, lamenting what he "hasn't recorded" seems a little strange.


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## dominiquevilain

I’ve heard that he has his own recording studio. Maybe he’s constantly trying to play some works again and again and recording it in order to be able to improve his playing. I don't konw, it's just a fantasy that i have that some day, we will hear Krystian’s private recordings… 

More seriously, does someone know why he censored his brahms recordings ? I can’t think of a better interpretation of these pieces… Richter and Gould have made awesome recordings of the sonatas and the ballads, respectively, but, zimerman is just mesmerizing. Is there an interview where he says the reason of his decision ?


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## Mandryka

dominiquevilain said:


> I've heard that he has his own recording studio. Maybe he's constantly trying to play some works again and again and recording it in order to be able to improve his playing. I don't konw, it's just a fantasy that i have that some day, we will hear Krystian's private recordings…
> 
> More seriously, does someone know why he censored his brahms recordings ? I can't think of a better interpretation of these pieces… Richter and Gould have made awesome recordings of the sonatas and the ballads, respectively, but, zimerman is just mesmerizing. Is there an interview where he says the reason of his decision ?


Philips tried to reissue them for their Great Pianists series, but he refused, saying that he wasn't satisfied with the sound engineering.


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## dominiquevilain

Thanks for this answer !


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## lextune

Rubens said:


> Every other great pianist has recorded at least *one* Beethoven sonata, even those whose styles were not the most suitable for his music (e.g., Gould, Horowitz, Cortot).


I get what you're saying in a way, stylistically, but it is worth pointing out that Gould really sticks out in your example, since he actually recorded the great majority of Beethoven Sonatas, (twenty-two of them).


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