# Borodin confusion -- please clue me!



## dinkydoink (Sep 3, 2007)

Hi,

I get a lot of my music from Rhapsody.com. I pay for the download-by-subscription service, and download to my compatible player.

I hope that doesn't make me a jerk. At least I pay for my music!

I'm really confused about Borodin's symphony #2.

I downloaded one version from Rhapsody. It's got a fair amount of choral singing, and I recognize several of the hummable, exotic-sounding melodies from the musical, Kismet. It's subtitled "Prince Igor" but it's clearly not an opera. It's orchestra plus chorus. The parts are labeled:

Prince Igor: In the Steppes of Central Asia
Prince Igor: Overture
Prince Igor: March
Prince Igor: Dance of the Polovtsian Maidens
Prince Igor: Polovtsian Dances (This might be a separate but related composition)

I thought this was actually symphony #2, but I now realize it probably isn't. 

Because Rhapsody.com is what it is, the information about this recording is rather scanty. As a matter of fact, I can't find it on rhapsody.com now, even though I downloaded it a week ago.

Now, if I search for Borodin's symphony #2, I get the same title and album art, but now the sections are labeled:

Allegro
Scherzo-prestissimo
Andante
Allegro
In the steppes of central asia
Overture
March
Dance of the Polovtsian Maidens

The record label is "red seal"

I can't see who the orchestra or conductor is. The picture of the cover is too small, and there's no further information.

It's possible that I accidentally got an incomplete download the first time, but I don't think that's the whole explanation, because there's no chorus on this version. I haven't compared section by section, but the whole thing seems rather different. For example, not so many of the hummable melodies from Kismet, it seems.

Can anybody figure out what's going on?

Thanks in advance,


Tim


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Hi Tim, and welcome to Talk Classical.

I'm a paid subscriber of Rhapsody too ... really enjoy the streaming audio while working in my home office as well as organizing my downloaded collections. 

I've done a little checking on the Borodin ... I get bunches of options for Sym 2 on a number of different labels. Which orchestra did your download include? or Who was the conductor? That would really help in narrowing down the options. 

Glad to have you aboard here ... Enjoy!! 

Kh


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

'prince igor' is a borodin opera.
the overture/dances you're running into are from the opera.

to me, this looks like the symphony -
Allegro
Scherzo-prestissimo
Andante
Allegro

'in the steppes...' is a symphonic poem.

dj


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## dinkydoink (Sep 3, 2007)

Hi DJ and Kh,

I think you mostly nailed it, D.J.

Can you clarify a bit more?

On one version, there is vocal music, but it doesn't sound like opera. There might be a bit of solo singing, but not much. It's mostly choral singing, and more orchestra than chorus. Is that the way Borodin orchestrated Prince Igor?

Is it possible that some versions of Prince Igor are arranged for orchestra without chorus? Was this Borodin's idea, or someone else's afterthought?

The familiar melodies from Kismet, the musical, are from Prince Igor, not symphony #2, correct?

Kh -- Unfortunately, Rhapsody often does an inexcusably bad job of identifying conductors, orchestras, and so on. In some cases, it does a bad job of identifying the music itself. This seems to be a bigger problem with classical and jazz. Their identification process is intended for pop only, it seems. The only identification I can see is a bad image of the album cover. I can't make out the name of the orchestra or conductor.

Standard Mp3 tags can identify orchestra, conductor, composer, soloists and all kinds of things. As far as I can tell, Rhapsody doesn't use standard Mp3 tags.

Cheers,


Tim


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

'familiar melodies from Kismet' yeah, 'stranger in paradise' from the dances in 'prince igor'.
there is a lot of chorus work in many operas. i've often heard the dances as recorded performances w/o the chorus.

i doubt borodin's immortal soul gives a rip...he probably just wants his music played!  

dj


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## Morigan (Oct 16, 2006)

If you look up the Wikipedia article about Kismet, you'll see that the music is adapted from different random parts of Borodin's music (Prince Igor, symphonies, serenades, etc.)


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

david johnson said:


> 'prince igor' is a borodin opera.
> the overture/dances you're running into are from the opera.
> 
> to me, this looks like the symphony -
> ...


David is absolutely right. I have all the works listed here and they go as he explained:

*Symphony Nº 2 in b minor*
Allegro
Scherzo-prestissimo
Andante
Allegro

*In the Steppes of Central Asia* is a symphonic poem

The rest are four parts from the huge opera *Prince Igor*

I'm pretty sure this is the CD you downloaded










The National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Loris Tjeknavorian.


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## dinkydoink (Sep 3, 2007)

Thanks, Manuel,

Yep, that's the one.

Looking back, the confusion began with another Rhapsody download, which I cannot now locate. It's still on my Rhapsody player.

The tracks and album are mis-labeled in such a way as to suggest that the subtitle of Symphony #2 is "Prince Igor." This surprised me, because I recalled that Prince Igor is an opera. Turns out I was right.

I've been listening to the Russian Five lately. Pictures at an Exhibition, downloaded from Rhapsody is absurdly mis-labeled.

I wonder if Rhapsody has received many complaints about this sort of thing. Rhapsody probably doesn't want to invest the money necessary to fix its labels, particularly in "classical" music, because subscribers interested in classical music likely account for a small portion of its subscribers.

Rhapsody should consider some system that would allow users to fix labels, sort of like a wiki. They probably won't, though.

Do we have many Russian Five fans on this forum?

Thanks to all on this thread.

Tim


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

the mighty five wrote tuneful music.
i stay mostly w/rimsky-korsakoff.
tchaikovsky is a fine non-5-er...better than all but rimsky for my money.
if you want more russian, sample the shostakovich 5th and the prokofiev 5th.

dj


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## Manuel (Feb 1, 2007)

dinkydoink said:


> Thanks, Manuel,
> 
> Tim


You are welcome.



> I've been listening to the Russian Five lately. Pictures at an Exhibition, downloaded from Rhapsody is absurdly mis-labeled.


Do you have any suggestion on Cui?
Some violin and orchestra suite aside, I have succesfully ignored the guy...


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