# Penderecki



## Explorer-8 (Jan 18, 2007)

I have borrowed a CD of music by *Krystof Penderecki *from the local library. I am very impressed with it. His music is so expressive and colourful; varied and intense.

The most popular one is "*Threnody for the victims of Hiroshima*" which is certainly good, but yet I prefer "*The dream of Jacob*" followed by "*Fonogrammi*" and then "*De Natura Sonoris no 2*". The threnody is for strings only and it is amazing how strings alone can be used with such intensity. "*Canticum Canticorum Salomonis*" includes voices which give it such a haunting sound and blend in so well with the orchestra. The other three pieces are "*Anaklasis*"; "*De natura sonoris no 1*" and "*Capriccio*".

Many years ago, I heard *Utrenja*. I will have to see if I can re-discover that one again.

Are there any other Penderecki fans out there?


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

A silly thing - I'd only recently discovered that Penderecki was still alive!


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## Explorer-8 (Jan 18, 2007)

*still alive*



Lisztfreak said:


> A silly thing - I'd only recently discovered that Penderecki was still alive!


I am pleased that Penderecki is still alive. There won't be many of his generation of avant-garde composers left now. He is one of the best of them because he puts genuine feeling into his music whereas it seems to be more of an intellectual exercise with so many of his contemporaries.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2007)

Penderecki is 74. (1933)

Some people roughly in that generation who are alive:

Gilbert Amy, 1936
Robert Ashley, 1930
Larry Austin, 1930
David Behrman, 1937
Harrison Birtwhistle, 1934
William Bolcom, 1938
David Borden, 1938
Sylvano Bussotti, 1931
John Corigliano, 1938
George Crumb, 1929
Alvin Curran, 1938
Peter Maxwell Davies, 1934
Tod Dockstader, 1932
Beatriz Ferreyra, 1937
Philip Glass, 1937
Vinko Globokar, 1934
Henryk Górecki, 1933)
Sofia Gubaidulina, 1931
Pierre Henry, 1927
Hans Werner Henze, 1926
John Harbison, 1938
Mauricio Kagel, 1931
Giya Kancheli, 1935
Bronius Kutavičius, 1932
Helmut Lachenmann, 1935
Steve Lacy, 1934
Alvin Lucier, 1931
Walter Marchetti, 1931
Nicholas Maw, 1935
Gordon Mumma, 1935
Thea Musgrave, 1928
Arne Nordheim, 1931
Per Nørgård, 1932
Pauline Oliveros, 1932
Arvo Pärt, 1935
Henry Pousseur, 1929
Eliane Radigue, 1932
Bernard Rands, 1934
Einojuhani Rautavaara, 1928
Steve Reich, 1936
Roger Reynolds, 1934
Terry Riley, 1935
Frederick Rzewski, 1938
Aulis Sallinnen, 1935
Karlheinz Stockhausen, 1928
Joan Tower, 1938
David Del Tredici, 1937
David Ward-Steinman, 1936
LaMonte Young, 1935
Hans Zender, 1936
Ellen Taafe Zwilich, 1939

I left off Boulez (1925) and Dhomont (1926) as being too early. And I don't know when Christine Groult was born, but she and Beatriz Ferreyra are friends, so she might belong on this list. I'm sure I'm leaving all sorts of good people off. I didn't double check, but I'm pretty sure all these people are alive. *I'll only add that none of the people on this list (and even including the three just mentioned) do what they do simply as an intellectual exercise. They all write music of genuine feeling.*


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

He he he! On the 27th this month I'm attending a concert in Zagreb with Penderecki personally conducting his Symphony no.4 'Adagio' and Concerto grosso for three cellos and orchestra!  

I'm so excited! I'll see one of the famous modern composers live!

And what's really cool, for students the concert is free-of-charge!


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2007)

wow. very cool.

and in zagreb, too. never been. 

be sure to report in detail and take pictures. do it. DO IT.


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## Explorer-8 (Jan 18, 2007)

some guy said:


> Penderecki is 74. (1933)
> 
> Some people roughly in that generation who are alive:
> 
> *I'll only add that none of the people on this list (and even including the three just mentioned) do what they do simply as an intellectual exercise. They all write music of genuine feeling.*


When I look through that list of composers, I realise that my comment was too harsh. For example, Karlheinz Stockhausen's Hymnen must have had alot of thought and feeling put into its composition, and also Philip Glass's North Star. Many of those composers, I have heard years ago like Pierre Henry and Luciano Berio. I need to hear them again to remind me what their music is really like, but my local library has so few of any of your list of composers represented in its collection. In the 1970s, the libraries had far more records (vinyl) than it does of CDs today.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2007)

Explorer-8:


> my local library has so few of any of your list of composers represented in its collection. In the 1970s, the libraries had far more records (vinyl) than it does of CDs today.


Too true. When I was in Sacramento in the late sixties, the downtown library had a nice collection of lps, and even the tiny branch library in Santa Rosa in the seventies had an Elliott Carter lp (Variations and Double concerto). Not any more. Maybe it's because cds are more expensive, but I've yet to see a library collection of cds that comes even close to what we had in the sixties and seventies with vinyl.

Means you either have to take a risk and spend your own money, or you go without. Concerts aren't too adventurous. Radio's rarely any better. T.V. is right out.

That's something a forum like this can help with, a little. Still a risk, but if you hear of something from someone who likes it, maybe you can guess whether you'd like, too.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Just came from the long-expected concert I mentioned above. It was quite impressive, even though I don't know Penderecki's music.

After a minute of silence for Rostropovich, he conducted his Symphony No.4, 'Adagio' with the Zagreb Symphony Orchestra. I haven't heard it before so I cannot compare, but I think it was a good performance - everything seemed to fall into place nicely. I couldn't say I liked the symphony, because I prefer more traditional and more firmly tonal music, but it doesn't matter, I think - the work is very good indeed, even though not catchy or something like that.

Penderecki is very elegant while conducting. He doesn't do much hand-flapping and air-poking, yet he gets what he wants from the orchestra.

After the pause we heard the 'Concerto grosso for three violoncellos and orchestra'. This was a lively, very interesting and colourful piece. Murky and heavy at places, springy at others. The cellists did a good job. [Is there a... 'screech' near the end of the work in one of the soloists? I think it is required, but you never know, could be a wolf.]

All in all, I liked the concert a lot. It was an interesting experience, an excursion into contemporary classical music, for me. And even though I won't be able to whistle any tunes from them, the works were very well written.

But what's most important - I've seen and heard Penderecki live! 

P.S. I couldn't take pictures in the concert hall. It's forbidden.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2007)

Sounds like it was a great concert.

I'm afraid those of us who were big Penderecki fans back in the day stopped following his music when he went over to the dark side (with the Christmas symphony). Maybe it's time to give some of those later works a quick listen. If only libraries carried a decent selection of cds...

Anyway, it's very cool to see living composers. I haven't met any yet who weren't total sweethearts.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Every text about Penderecki mentions the 'passing to the dark side'. 
What did he do exactly?


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## Morigan (Oct 16, 2006)

He chose the dark side of the force, joined the Sith lords and turned away from the Jedi.


... Sorry, I need to sleep. It's been a long week.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2007)

> Every text about Penderecki mentions the 'passing to the dark side'.
> What did he do exactly?


Every text? I'm surprised, as what that refers to is his turn away from the dense, complex, cluster type of writing to a more open (harmonically), tuneful, pretty kind of writing. It's as if Lawrence Ferlinghetti were to have started writing poetry like Rod McKuen.

We not only hated the music; we felt betrayed. But I would have expected that many people would have welcomed that particular change--as people did when Copland did a very similar thing. (Copland at least went back to complex, interesting, harmonically challenging works near the end of his life. He worked with tone rows for those, but they still sound like Copland. Like what happened with Stravinsky--his twelve tone pieces still sound just like Stravinsky.)

Anyway, that's what he did, and his "fans" were all sad. There was always plenty of Xenakis and Ustvolskaya and Boulez and Lachenmann and Ligeti and and and and and.... So we didn't _stay_ sad.


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## Mr Salek (Apr 11, 2006)

I started reading Adler's book on orchestration yesterday, and this is one of the first names to come up. I was surprised not to have heard of him.


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

On last Saturday I bought some CDs, and among them a Penderecki one. It has *Cello Concerto No.2*, *Partita* and *Stabat mater *on it.

To be completely straightforward, the Partita and Stabat mater are horrible (IMO). Especially the Partita. An interesting combination of instruments, but I prefer music with rhythm, harmony and melody (or at least one of those things).

The Cello Concerto (played by Rostropovich to whom it is dedicated, after all) is however very listenable and I can say I liked it pretty much. Very interesting solo parts and string parts, and strongly rhythmic and catchy percussion are its best qualities.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2007)

Depends, I'd guess, on how you define "rhythm, harmony, and melody." I can't think of any piece by Penderecki that doesn't have all three, if by "rhythm" you mean "what gives a sense of time" and by "harmony" you mean "two or more things sounding at the same time" and by "melody" you mean "changes in frequency." This might be the wrong place to discuss how the meanings of those terms has changed over the years, but as you brought it up on this thread, I thought "well, what the hay?"


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## Lisztfreak (Jan 4, 2007)

Well, I know it'll sound stupid, but I meant 'music that at least at some point can be caught by one's ear and followed onwards in its progress'. Or, less precisely, music that sounds pleasant in whatever way (RWV's 6th isn't _pleasant_, but is pleasant in one of those 'whatever ways').


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## toucan (Sep 27, 2010)

Lisztfreak said:


> A silly thing - I'd only recently discovered that Penderecki was still alive!


Actually that's a myth, like the Elvis sightings that are reported in the tabloids every once in a while. Penderecki died in 1977 while composing his first violin concerto. He was a Yale professor at the time. It is probable a colleague murdered him. Professors just don't like originality.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

That is funny ^

But i really dont want anyone to fall for it


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