# What's the fuss about Bach's St Matthew Passion?



## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

Boring from start to finish, it's almost 3 hours feel like 3 days. 
Erbarme Dich, the violin ballad there, sounds like the soundtrack of a low budget mafia movie.
The opening track is so boring, where is the "Passion" in it?
Give me Dream Theater or Iron Maiden any time of the day. \,,/


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## BachIsBest (Feb 17, 2018)

First of all, the violin part in Erbarme Dich is not a ballad. 

Extending beyond that, I'm not sure what this thread is for? Did you want people to point things out in the music; it contains, as is characteristic of Bach's music, plenty of complex polyphony and has a lot of interesting structure. Did you want recording recommendations? If you feel it is too long or slow perhaps you might enjoy Gardnier? 

However, if you just wished to insult something you don't understand in favour of a couple of guys who think they're good because they now how to use really (really) loud amps I'm not sure what the point of all this is.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

> Extending beyond that, I'm not sure what this thread is for?


Have you ever heard of a thing called "trolling"?


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Absolute troll. That said, some will appreciate the Passions in Reader's Digest versions, *here*.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

aioriacont said:


> What's the fuss about Bach's St Matthew Passion?


... it's very good ...


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## aioriacont (Jul 23, 2018)

wow, the topic creator is an absolute troll. Sad.
Be sure to listen to either Klemperer's epic version, longer but conveys the mourning feelings very well at the begining.
Or Richter's moving version from the youtube video (played live, yes!), or Suzuki's HIP approach, which is very precise but emotional too.
For an interesting insight, please check the OVPP versions, especially Kuijken's (McCreesh is ok too, but the "Kommt..." is too fast, Kuijken's tempo seem more balanced).

If either the opening chorus nor Erbarme Dich (which is not a ballad!) don't move you, then just forget about music at all!


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Look---in the right section: Religious music

Favorite St. Matthew's Passion


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

I never connected to the St Matthew Passion until I heard Mengelberg’s 1939 recording. I listened to the entire thing without stopping. I felt transfixed. To me that is the difference between human, soulful connection to the work you are performing and clinical, academic pedantry.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

aioriacont said:


> wow, the topic creator is an absolute troll. Sad.
> Be sure to listen to either Klemperer's epic version, longer but conveys the mourning feelings very well at the begining.
> Or Richter's moving version from the youtube video (played live, yes!), or Suzuki's HIP approach, which is very precise but emotional too.
> For an interesting insight, please check the OVPP versions, especially Kuijken's (McCreesh is ok too, but the "Kommt..." is too fast, Kuijken's tempo seem more balanced).
> ...


Why? Your posting pattern is that you hate a piece and have never understood its appeal ... and then it turns out you don't hate it and know it relatively well. Are you sharing your membership with a teenaged son? Or are you just being very clever. If the latter, could you give a rationale for the pattern for thickos like me?


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

_Boring from start to finish, it's almost 3 hours feel like 3 days. Erbarme Dich, the violin ballad there, sounds like the soundtrack of a low budget mafia movie. The opening track is so boring, where is the "Passion" in it? Give me Dream Theater or Iron Maiden any time of the day._

To answer the one question Bach recites the passion story. Wikipedia says this may include, "Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem, his cleansing of the Temple, his anointing, the Last Supper, Jesus' agony in the Garden, his arrest, his Sanhedrin trial, his trial before Pontius Pilate, his crucifixion and his death on Good Friday, his burial, and the resurrection."

You may enjoy Iron Maiden but the few people that knew it have forgotten it. That won't happen with the St. Matthew Passion which having been composed 1727 has already endured 300 years. People will be listening to it and performing it at least another 300 years -- probably the next 3,000 years.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Enthusiast said:


> Why? Your posting pattern is that you hate a piece and have never understood its appeal ... and then it turns out you don't hate it and know it relatively well. Are you sharing your membership with a teenaged son? Or are you just being very clever. If the latter, could you give a rationale for the pattern for thickos like me?


Perhaps his son took advantage of his father's unattended PC....


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ That's what I was wondering. But perhaps the son is the one who comes back with some knowledge and appreciation and it is the father who is a philistine. I wouldn't want to be ageist.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> I never connected to the St Matthew Passion until I heard Mengelberg's 1939 recording. I listened to the entire thing without stopping. I felt transfixed. To me that is the difference between human, soulful connection to the work you are performing and clinical, academic pedantry.


As far as I recall, Mengelberg's SMP (I have only heard it once a long time ago) is heavily truncated and doesn't leave an organic integrated impression of the work, so whatever the performing style I didn't connect to it at all.


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

That Mengelberg is a very special performance though certainly not one for every day - the idiosyncrasies (rubato, balances, tempo) are pretty extreme almost to the point of ridiculousness and of course Mengelberg's use of his almighty pruning knife to slice chunks out of the work is not acceptable. But if you can listen through that and the dim sound quality, and follow along with the text, it's amazing how the Passion starts to flow and make sense in the way Mengelberg does it. The chorus and soloists treat the text as if they are speaking, and there is an overwhelming sense of conviction about the whole affair. Like I said, not one for every day but not one I would want to be without.

Otherwise my favorite SMPs are Harnoncourt, Jochum, and Schreier. With reservations I recommend Gardiner (too fast in spots but overall well done) and Klemperer (_waaayyy_ too slow and plodding throughout but sometimes his tempi lead to some emotionally devastating moments, and the soloists are brilliant). I never have understood the fascination with Richter '58. I find it inflexible and overtly pietistic with a choir that sounds like they're shouting everything at the top of their lungs, and a solo team that's nothing to write home about.


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

I’m interested in the Matthäus-Passion, but I don’t want to participate in threads that start like this one.


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## Marc (Jun 15, 2007)

Simplicissimus said:


> I'm interested in the Matthäus-Passion, but I don't want to participate in threads that start like this one.


Maybe these?

Recommend a St. Matthew Passion recording

Favorite St. Matthew's Passion

(Rogerx already mentioning one of them.)


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Simplicissimus said:


> I'm interested in the Matthäus-Passion, but I don't want to participate in threads that start like this one.


Ha! The OP has started more than one of these negative threads. I just listened to St Matthew for the first time last year. I got the Gustav Leonhardt CD from the library. I really enjoyed it because the time had arrived for me to really hear it. I went 35 years with three Bach CDs in my collection, so everything in time. No need to force the issue if you're not ready. Just listen to something else.


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