# A strange point in my journey...



## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

Right now I feel like I know _*way more*_ about classical music than your average Joe...
I know about periods in classical music, most famous composers, genres, even general trends in recent times, and controversies brought up by atonality...
I've listned to a lot of classical music... mainly orchestral, but also piano music, string quartets, art songs, etc...

Yet, I feel like I am, in comparison to a hard core classical music fan, such as most of you guys here, a total noob... Like I know *way less* than most of you. Now you might say, so what... it's not any kind of competition. And you will be right...

But I'm not bothered by it for any kind of competitive reasons...

I am bothered by it because it means that I can't truly connect when it comes to classical music, neither with general population who has no clue, nor with other classical music fans who know way more than me... It's like I am on a part of my journey where I feel that I don't truly belong anywhere...

Any of you ever felt in a similar way?


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## UniversalTuringMachine (Jul 4, 2020)

ZJovicic said:


> Right now I feel like I know _*way more*_ about classical music than your average Joe...
> I know about periods in classical music, most famous composers, genres, even general trends in recent times, and controversies brought up by atonality...
> I've listned to a lot of classical music... mainly orchestral, but also piano music, string quartets, art songs, etc...
> 
> ...


We are always connected through music.

Knowledge has nothing to do with it.


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## ZJovicic (Feb 26, 2017)

UniversalTuringMachine said:


> We are always connected through music.
> 
> Knowledge has nothing to do with it.


Yeah it's true... we can connect of course...
But I was speaking more about deeper connections, like "being on same wavelengths with someone..." Like coming from a similar place, having experienced similar stuff, and then knowing quite intimately, why someone feels in certain way about some composer or a piece, etc...


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Total knowledge has little to do with it -- as long as you get answers to the questions you do have. Remember: Few CM people can agree on anything, let alone everything. Explore at your own pace and learn what you feel like learning.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

ZJovicic said:


> Yeah it's true... we can connect of course...
> But I was speaking more about deeper connections, like "being on same wavelengths with someone..." Like coming from a similar place, having experienced similar stuff, and then knowing quite intimately, why someone feels in certain way about some composer or a piece, etc...


Classical music, because of all the delicate complexities, and so many ways to have a different life experience of interacting with it, affects each human in idiosyncratic ways. There can be many general similarities on the basic level because of physics and psychology, but once what one is used to, lifestyle, and more philosophical / ideological views kick in, everybody becomes a sovereign of taste, and little discussion is possible.

If you want a connection, find societies that are fans of particular composers that you are a fan of. A lot more will make sense to you there.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

ZJovicic said:


> I am bothered by it because it means that I can't truly connect when it comes to classical music, neither with general population who has no clue, nor with other classical music fans who know way more than me... It's like I am on a part of my journey where I feel that I don't truly belong anywhere...
> 
> Any of you ever felt in a similar way?


Yep. I think I know a lot about what I'm interested in, but I don't have the time to study all the biographies and annotate all the scores in the repertoire, and I don't play an orchestral instrument, so I'm glad others are able to do the heavy lifting, and at least I can ask questions.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

There are hundreds of people on this and other music forums. Talk about what interests you and you will connect. Some people will know more than you and you'll learn things. Some will know less than you and they'll learn from you. Once in a while you'll find yourself completely in sync with someone else. Savor the moment, 'cause it won't last.

:tiphat:


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## Simplicissimus (Feb 3, 2020)

Going to concerts and recitals has always been for my primary point of connection wth public classical music. That hasn’t been possible recently, of course. Also very important is my daily CM radio listening. I’m lucky to have a local CM radio station. Even if you don’t, though, you can listen online. All my life I’ve felt connected to classical music through radio.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

ZJovicic said:


> Right now I feel like ... I don't truly belong anywhere...
> 
> Any of you ever felt in a similar way?


Yep.
That's why I listen to music.


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## consuono (Mar 27, 2020)

ZJovicic said:


> ...
> I am bothered by it because it means that I can't truly connect when it comes to classical music, neither with general population who has no clue, nor with other classical music fans who know way more than me... It's like I am on a part of my journey where I feel that I don't truly belong anywhere...


If you love the music, or particular composers or works or genres or whatever, you belong. Don't worry about it and don't be intimidated if there are those who can throw out the names of loads of obscure composers or bring up their knowledge of music theory and whatnot. In the first place, a characteristic of online platforms is occasionally to bring out the pedantic in people, and I've done that from time to time as well in certain areas that I know well enough. Second, a lot of us have been listening and/or playing for decades...and in a way we're all still total noobs. Just keep listening and learning what you can without worrying about "fitting in".


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I have often noted that as our knowledge grows so does our appreciation of how much we don't know.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Sounds like you have feelings of inferiority because of something you aren't. Just keep listening and learning and these feelings will dissipate as you learn, know and love more music. There will come a day when you wont' compare yourself to other people.

As to connecting ... unless you live in a musical family or network there aren't many classical music fans out there. They are rare. I've lived almost 70 years and only met one in my life outside of church I could even attend concerts with. And his interest was minimal. I have never met anyone with my level of interest. That's why there are places like this.

Regarding competition ... forget it about classical music because it doesn't apply. The great thing about sports is the finality. There is a winner and a loser or a winner and losers based on criteria everyone knows. That doesn't happen in classical music, not even in juried competitions which are based on judges' opinions. The rest of the time people argue about what is better or worse than something else -- players, music, recordings, composers, etc.

Get used to it if you're going to follow classical music all your life.


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## janxharris (May 24, 2010)

larold said:


> As to connecting ... unless you live in a musical family or network there aren't many classical music fans out there. They are rare. I've lived almost 70 years and only met one in my life outside of church I could even attend concerts with. And his interest was minimal. I have never met anyone with my level of interest. That's why there are places like this.


I feel quite sad to read this; it's rather shocking. It seems to underline how difficult classical music is to get into.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Yeah, that's life in CM. It tends to be lonely.

I should add I've made penpals through places like this and Amazon with whom I've discussed music in cyberspace.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

ZJovicic said:


> Right now I feel like I know _*way more*_ about classical music than your average Joe...
> I know about periods in classical music, most famous composers, genres, even general trends in recent times, and controversies brought up by atonality...
> I've listned to a lot of classical music... mainly orchestral, but also piano music, string quartets, art songs, etc...
> 
> ...


Even if you do have an extensive working knowledge of theory, there will still be academics and other "pedigrees" who will try to invalidate that knowledge as being "unrefined" or "nonsense" because it is based on hearing.

I just thank the lord that I have a good ear, and can create music. That fact trumps everything else!

If you could meet someone like me, who can hear everything, then they could confirm to you that you also have a good ear. There are many music lovers out there who have good ears, yet for some reason never picked up an instrument. But they can sing. If the music is "in them," then it will come out in some way. They will "resonate" with music. You are probably already there, you just need confirmation.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> Even if you do have an extensive working knowledge of theory, there will still be academics and other "pedigrees" who will try to invalidate that knowledge as being "unrefined" or "nonsense."
> 
> *I just thank the lord that I have a good ear, and can create music. That fact trumps everything else!*


...well let's hear some MR...c'mon, don't be shy....


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## Tallisman (May 7, 2017)

If you're desperate for what you take to be a more 'refined appreciation' (something I think is difficult to define and perhaps even 'overrated'), then I can suggest Bruce Adolphe's Inside Chamber Music series on YouTube. They're very engaging in both their historical and theoretical perspectives. He's also genuinely funny.

Don't forget: music, prior to its theoretical analyses, will always function on an immediate level potentially accessible to all. What is demanded is not so much 'knowledge' as receptivity, openness and generosity. The critical faculties are obviously important, but secondary.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

mikeh375 said:


> ...well let's hear some MR...c'mon, don't be shy....


As far as I know, I'm still banned from the "composers" thread.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

millionrainbows said:


> As far as I know, I'm still banned from the "composers" thread.


oh, I didn't know you could be banned from individual threads...shame. You shouldn't be such a naughty boy.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

ZJovicic said:


> Right now I feel like I know _*way more*_ about classical music than your average Joe...
> I know about periods in classical music, most famous composers, genres, even general trends in recent times, and controversies brought up by atonality...
> I've listned to a lot of classical music... mainly orchestral, but also piano music, string quartets, art songs, etc...
> 
> ...


Nice post. First paragraph is a very similar place to me. I feel I can give an informed opinion around how much I _like_ a piece or composer - but feel out of my depth when others are discussing compositional merits or structure, for example. Where we are different is that I don't care . I get my sense of connection through this site still, Radio 3 in Uk and going to concerts.


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## neofite (Feb 19, 2017)

ZJovicic said:


> Right now I feel like I know _*way more*_ about classical music than your average Joe...
> I know about periods in classical music, most famous composers, genres, even general trends in recent times, and controversies brought up by atonality...
> I've listned to a lot of classical music... mainly orchestral, but also piano music, string quartets, art songs, etc...
> 
> ...


Yes. This describes exactly how I feel, but have not been able to articulate. It describes how I feel about music _and_ how I feel about various other things. I suspect that there are many of us on TC, perhaps most? Thank you Zlovicic for bringing up this important topic.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

ZJovicic said:


> I am bothered by it because it means that I can't truly connect when it comes to classical music, neither with general population who has no clue, nor with other classical music fans who know way more than me... It's like I am on a part of my journey where I feel that I don't truly belong anywhere...
> 
> Any of you ever felt in a similar way?


Sure, years ago when I was in a similar place - I knew a lot more and appreciated CM better than any of my peers, and even music teachers. Yet I was quite in the dark compared to older people who seemed to be on top of everything classical. They had been to concerts, summer festivals, had massive record collections, books about music and such. But now I'm that person: I have a lifetime of experiences to share. The trouble is, and has always been, meeting people to share it with. The internet, great as it is, is no substitute for real in-person contact. Summer music festivals are wonderful: you feel like you're among fellow devotees. One of my happiest associations is with a local chamber music society. It's a relatively small cadre of true music lovers of all ages, income levels, education, etc. That's one place I really feel like I belong. We have doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, electricians, a couple of priests, two rodeo cowboys....it's a great place. Try to find a music society in Bosnia.


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## HolstThePhone (Oct 11, 2015)

I'm relatively new here (joined the forum ages ago, but only really using it now) and it seems like there are a lot of people here with an encyclopedic knowledge of CM. I respect this, but I know for a fact I'm never going to achieve the same level of expertise. Nor do I feel any particular pressure to! The history of CM spans centuries and there are thousands of symphonies, concertos, operas, oratorios, chamber works and solo pieces available to enjoy and pick apart and digest. My approach is to bumble along happy in the knowledge that there will always be something new to discover and more to learn.


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## pianozach (May 21, 2018)

There is no one that knows all there is to know about music.

You'll never know it all.

We all know differing aspects of music . . .


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