# Does anybody actually like Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet?



## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

All I ever see are negative comments towards it about the poor quality or the stupid gimmickry. Does anybody actually enjoy this piece on here? Is there anybody who places it as one of their favorite pieces? We don't seem to have too many Stockhausen lovers around here period and I never seem being discussed outside of attacking/defending him from time to time when he is brought up in a negative light. I also never see anybody mention that they are listening to him or placing him in the upper echelon of anything. I've been wondering this for awhile...


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## martijn (May 4, 2011)

I loved the rendition of John Cage's "4'33" played simultaneously in four helicopters.

On topic: I don't buy this whole thing. I think many development in the 20th century were dead end streets. Schoenberg's 12 tone system was one in my opinion. For sure he recognized that the possible means became exhausted, but why then 12 tones? Just because there are 12 tones in our scales? Schoenberg has a legacy, but I would say that he was a great composer despite his 12 tone innovations. Most of this modern music with this typical "Sixties" mentality was another cul-de-sac. It's so self-indulgent: let's make a piece without music and call it 4"33, let's write a string quartet played in a helicopter. The worst legacy of this period was that every idiot from now on could consider himself an artist by coming up with something crazy. Which is not to be said that those who experimented in those days were all lousy composers. Just they took a dead end street. The best proof is that it largely has remained unsuccesfull and can stand no comparison to the system of tonality that lasted for centuries.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Yes, I enjoy listening to it.

Even though hearing a two channel audio-only recording is a very poor substitute for the experience of the piece live - something I am looking forward to getting when _Mittwoch _is staged in Birmingham later this year.

It's not my favourite scene from _Licht _- I would easily place _Michael's journey around the world_, _Lucifer's dream_, _Synthi-Fou_, to say nothing of the wonderful _Outer space_ above them if I were ranking the scenes from _Licht _in terms of "favourite". Still less is it one my favourite pieces of all music - it probably wouldn't make the top thousand, given my liking for music as varied as Monteverdi's _Duo seraphim_, Schubert's last piano sonata and Mary Chapin Carpenter's song O_nly a dream_.

But whether or not it is one of my favourite pieces, or whether or not I like it, says nothing about the quality of the music - as a composition, as a valid component of a stage work, as a concept, or as anything else. To imagine that my liking for any piece of music confers on it some objective recognition of quality would be taking hubris to new levels.

If people don't like the _Helicopter _quartet because of the noise it makes, that's fine. It's just that that says nothing about the music, only the individual listener's response to it.

If people don't like it because they don't understand how it's put together, then to criticise it or the composer because of that is just intellectually moribund. The answer is to find out how it's constructed and then assess it. If people don't want to make the effort, that's fine, too, but again it says nothing about the music.

Anyone who has read an analysis (or made their own) of the piece - even at a simple level - and then wishes to criticise it is on firmer ground.

I've already made my case (briefly) for Stockhausen here: http://www.talkclassical.com/17758-stockhausen-real-composer-put-2.html. I pointed out that, between 1950 and 1964, each of the 23 works he wrote in that period is, axiomatically, completely different from all the others (and every other piece of music ever composed). That makes it hard to assess the quality of the composer because you have to know most of the works well. It's not like hearing half a dozen Mozart piano concertos in the K400s and being able to make a reasonably accurate assessment of the whole canon, and being able to make inferences about Mozart's concertante style in general, his approach to the orchestra, his approach to the piano, and so on. An understanding of _Kontra-punkte_, say, ain't going to help you with _Gruppen _or _Kontakte_. Of course, as a listener, you don't need to know any of this, you only need to surrender to the hedonistic pleasure of the music.

Between 1964 and the start of _Licht _in 1977, there are many further unique works, though a bit of repetition creeps in: eg, _Telemusik _is a dry run for _Hymnen_, _Sternklang _is a vast extension of _Stimmung _and so on.

For those people who just want to use Stockhausen as a whipping boy (and there are some on TC) - just go ahead. It says nothing about the composer.

For those who are genuinely bemused by the composer, but have an open mind, I would *not *suggest the _Helicopter _quartet - or _Gruppen_. Bearing in mind what is actually available easily, I suggest choosing _Kontakte_. There is a fine performance by Jonny Axelsson and Fredrik Ullen on Caprice CAP21642. In this work for piano, percussion and electronic music, Stockhausen extends the range of timbres available from a piano and a large battery of percussion instruments into the electronic realm. It is essentially a duet for electronics and humans (and the electronic component is a satisfying stand-alone work). If you hear it as a work about sounds, sound quality and timbre, and if you think of it as that duet, you'll get it with half a dozen listenings.

Have I answered the question?


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

martijn said:


> ...The best proof is that it largely has remained unsuccesfull and can stand no comparison to the system of tonality that lasted for centuries.


Far from being a proof, that is just an opinion. As Mr Wikipedia would say, "citation needed". Please make your case.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I love it. I have not studied it or anything as it seems Jeremy has. But I think the sound of the helicopters gives a power and a certain depth in its own right to the sound of the string quartet.


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

Same answer that <violadude>.
However, I don't think it's one of my favorites pieces.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I love it, but it isn't my favourite excerpt from Licht. What _has_ to happen is for an opera company to perform the entire cycle one opera a night from Monday through to Sunday.

EDIT: Actually I know someone who detests all classical music except for that half hour selection from Licht. They love the Helicopter SQ but hates Beethoven.:lol:


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

quite good, but is NOTHING compared to my nuclear explosion piano quintet. The only problem for a performance is the current price of the uranium and you know, the radiations.


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## NightHawk (Nov 3, 2011)

I like conceptual works - if they work, and I think the Helicopter SQ does - 4 independent lines playing in formation, is enhanced to the nth degree by a formation of 4 'copters with communication rigged so the SQ players can hear each other. I love it. I also have a thing about helicopters. Have flown in a few, and would love to own and fly one myself.


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## LudwigNAV (Mar 20, 2012)

More pretentious garbage from our culturally devoid modern era that relies on gimmicks rather than honest music.

When I'm trying to listen to music and low flying planes or helicopters rattle the whole house, I get very irritated and angry, and when you live close to the busiest airport in the world, it gets a little annoying when this happens several times in the span of a few minutes. My neighbor and I always have good conversations that are constantly interrupted when we can no longer hear ourselves speak due to especially noisy helicopters.

I am, and I'm sure many others are, the type of people who enjoy listening to the singing of the birds when we step outside, whereas these modernists seem to enjoy the sound of traffic accidents, noisy, yapper dogs incessantly barking, foundation rattling jet engines, and jackhammers at a construction site.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I genuinely like the music but the visual excerpts I have seen are pretty ludicrous - perhaps this aspect of it makes more sense when considering it as part of 'Mittwoch aus Licht' rather than as a stand-alone work. For me I think this is one multi-media piece with which I could happily make do with the music only.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

LudwigNAV said:


> More pretentious garbage from our culturally devoid modern era that relies on gimmicks rather than honest music.
> 
> When I'm trying to listen to music and low flying planes or helicopters rattle the whole house, I get very irritated and angry, and when you live close to the busiest airport in the world, it gets a little annoying when this happens several times in the span of a few minutes. My neighbor and I always have good conversations that are constantly interrupted when we can no longer hear ourselves speak due to especially noisy helicopters.
> 
> I am, and I'm sure many others are, the type of people who enjoy listening to the singing of the birds when we step outside, whereas these modernists seem to enjoy the sound of traffic accidents, noisy, yapper dogs incessantly barking, foundation rattling jet engines, and jackhammers at a construction site.


Exactly what percentage of pieces from the 20th century are "gimmicks?" Exactly how mant of these gimmicky pieces are out there?


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2012)

LudwigNAV said:


> More pretentious garbage from our culturally devoid modern era that relies on gimmicks rather than honest music.


Well, thanks for sharing.



LudwigNAV said:


> [T]hese modernists seem to enjoy the sound of traffic accidents, noisy, yapper dogs incessantly barking, foundation rattling jet engines, and jackhammers at a construction site.


And birds singing. Don't forget that "we modernists" like the sound of birds singing, too.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Idont particularly like it, but then I havent seen Licht live. Stockhausen to me is one of the greatest composers of the last 100 years, yet discussions of him hardly survive the first page on this forum. IMO he should have 4 or 5 in any top 50 list of 'modern' classical music.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't like it, but I don't hate it. I don't like it in the same way that I don't like Ligeti's piece with the metronomes, that kind of experimentations are not very interesting to me.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Now if they played THIS over Cambodia, they wouldn't even have to drop the Napalm.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Now if they played THIS over Cambodia, they wouldn't even have to drop the Napalm.


I think Lt. Col. Kilgore would still prefer Ride of the Valkyries blaring from HIS helicoptors.


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## An Die Freude (Apr 23, 2011)

Hopefully this works. Youtube's being funny for me right now.


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## Rapide (Oct 11, 2011)

There will always be pretentious music for pretentious listeners. To compare with a bird's song is false. We don't need to "study" a bird's song. It comes natural to us, a bird's song on its own can be appreicated. The Helicopter SQ some argues need "studying", understanding on what Stockhausen did/constructed ... well OK do we have to buy a ticket to sit in a helicopter too in order to understand it?


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

LudwigNAV said:


> More pretentious garbage from our culturally devoid modern era that relies on gimmicks rather than honest music.


Just because _you_ don't like the cultural output doesn't mean that we have no culture. If it bothers you so damn much, why don't you take up composition? Make the cultural output you think we're being deprived of.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Rapide said:


> There will always be pretentious music for pretentious listeners. To compare with a bird's song is false. We don't need to "study" a bird's song. It comes natural to us, a bird's song on its own can be appreicated. The Helicopter SQ some argues need "studying", understanding on what Stockhausen did/constructed ... well OK do we have to buy a ticket to sit in a helicopter too in order to understand it?


Please don't use invective against people just because they like something you don't. Not a nice thing to do at all.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

Rapide said:


> There will always be pretentious music for pretentious listeners. To compare with a bird's song is false. We don't need to "study" a bird's song. It comes natural to us, a bird's song on its own can be appreicated. The Helicopter SQ some argues need "studying", understanding on what Stockhausen did/constructed ... well OK do we have to buy a ticket to sit in a helicopter too in order to understand it?


In music composition class we actually took a trip to the local airbase and studied the helicopters and rode in one to help grasp the piece while we were studying it. Everybody came out with a new appreciation for the piece and most of the class hated it before the experience.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Its not among my favorite pieces in the medium, but I love the (insane) imagination in it. Its like Conlon Nancarrow writing for player pianos, I never would have thought of doing that. It makes me consider many more possibilities and elements in composition. Its the concept of spacial elements in a piece taken to an extreme. I must also say, there are some pretty stunning moments in this piece.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

norman bates said:


> quite good, but is NOTHING compared to my nuclear explosion piano quintet. The only problem for a performance is the current price of the uranium and you know, the radiations.


Lol, I remember now that I joined this forum back in April just to like this.

However, I am quite happy to say I don't get it, because I _really_ don't. I must confess I didn't know it was part of a larger work, which would give it context. On its own I would tend to be skeptical that it is just a gimmick. I will probably start with Kontakte as Jeremy suggested, if/when I acquire the desire (or necessity) to tackle Stockhausen's output in a serious way.


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

Can anyone who likes the piece shed some light on why you like it?
I don't understand it, and would love to know more about it (as you may have known I'm a modern-music idiot)


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

Innovation for the sake of innovation!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Progress for progress' sake must be discouraged!


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

eorrific said:


> Can anyone who likes the piece shed some light on why you like it?
> I don't understand it, and would love to know more about it (as you may have known I'm a modern-music idiot)


Well, aside from liking how imaginative it is, using the space the instruments are playing in as instruments themselves, I like the interplay between the quartet and the four helicopters. Its just neat sounding, its almost kinda sorta like a concerto, a very dialogue-heavy piece.There are certain points, particularly later in the piece where the strings land on chords, that are just really striking and beautiful, and I like that about it too. Honestly, its kinda long, with not alot of easily perceived variety, but yeah. I like it for the interesting interplay of sounds, and for striking dramatic moments that are quite beautiful. Oh yeah, and the timbre, the color combinations and texture. Thats really cool too. He makes the quartet sounds like the helicopters, and sometimes the helicopters sounds like the quartet.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Arsakes said:


> Innovation for the sake of innovation!


...Couldn't you make that (lousy) argument for.... _any_ innovation? Its not "innovation for the sake of innovation". Its a new thing, because thats what Stockhausen came up with in his imagination and he liked it. He's a bit of a space cadet, but he's also an artist, so he made something that he wanted to make, that sounded good to him. Same thing goes for Couchie's equally lousy variation of your statement.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Well, aside from liking how imaginative it is, using the space the instruments are playing in as instruments themselves, I like the interplay between the quartet and the four helicopters. Its just neat sounding, its almost kinda sorta like a concerto, a very dialogue-heavy piece.There are certain points, particularly later in the piece where the strings land on chords, that are just really striking and beautiful, and I like that about it too. Honestly, its kinda long, with not alot of easily perceived variety, but yeah. I like it for the interesting interplay of sounds, and for striking dramatic moments that are quite beautiful. Oh yeah, and the timbre, the color combinations and texture. Thats really cool too. He makes the quartet sounds like the helicopters, and sometimes the helicopters sounds like the quartet.


What she said.

Also, I like music.


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## EricABQ (Jul 10, 2012)

I found it interesting. 

I also don't feel the need to listen to it twice.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Cnote11 said:


> Does anybody actually like Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet?


I'll let you know after I've seen it live next week...


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Some posts above have suggested how imaginative the piece is, how cool it is.

I think I am going to take up music lessons and then composition lessons. I assure you, I can come up with even more imaginative ways to use a string quartet to produce cool and imaginative pieces of "music".


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I think I am going to take up music lessons and then composition lessons. I assure you, I can come up with even more imaginative ways to use a string quartet to produce cool and imaginative pieces of "music".


Great! I look forward to it. Anything rather than the beyond-ultra-reactionary wouldbe-C19 offerings of some people round here.


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## Ramako (Apr 28, 2012)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I think I am going to take up music lessons and then composition lessons. I assure you, I can come up with even more imaginative ways to use a string quartet to produce cool and imaginative pieces of "music".


Well, the next obvious stage is having all the performers play in submarines. Also, why have the performers playing the instruments? Perhaps we could train some monkeys to play, while the performers stand around and, well, _perform_. This challenges the whole concept of quartet: is it a quartet or an octet? 

The next stage is having them play in space, but this is getting close to 4:33, which would be derivative and boring.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> I'll let you know after I've seen it live next week...


Luuuuuucky D:


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Ramako said:


> Well, the next obvious stage is having all the performers play in submarines. Also, why have the performers playing the instruments? Perhaps we could train some monkeys to play, while the performers stand around and, well, _perform_. This challenges the whole concept of quartet: is it a quartet or an octet?
> 
> The next stage is having them play in space, but this is getting close to 4:33, which would be derivative and boring.


You have just opened the door to a whole new style  Monkeyism! Or would it be monkophony? or perhaps Musique Singe :3


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> ...Couldn't you make that (lousy) argument for.... _any_ innovation? Its not "innovation for the sake of innovation". Its a new thing, because thats what Stockhausen came up with in his imagination and he liked it. He's a bit of a space cadet, but he's also an artist, so he made something that he wanted to make, that sounded good to him. Same thing goes for Couchie's equally lousy variation of your statement.


No - read Wagner's manifesto ART AND REVOLUTION. Then you will understand these matters.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

LudwigNAV said:


> I am, and I'm sure many others are, the type of people who enjoy listening to the singing of the birds when we step outside, whereas these modernists seem to enjoy the sound of traffic accidents, noisy, yapper dogs incessantly barking, foundation rattling jet engines, and jackhammers at a construction site.


Though wouldn't life be much more palatable if such things were music to ones ears instead of just noise?

Philosophy aside, have you ever actually listened to birdsong? Its completely atonal and alien to human ears as music. Yet Messiaen attempted to notate it and it sounds very strange indeed. I think it is fascinating and I'll never hear birdsong in the same way again. It is also worth noting that many birds imitate sounds they hear, including car horns, alarms and jackhammers.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Couchie said:


> No - read Wagner's manifesto ART AND REVOLUTION. Then you will understand these matters.


Yeah, cause Wagner has never written anything thats totally stupid or full of crap.


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

Ramako said:


> Well, the next obvious stage is having all the performers play in submarines. Also, why have the performers playing the instruments? Perhaps we could train some monkeys to play, while the performers stand around and, well, _perform_. This challenges the whole concept of quartet: is it a quartet or an octet?
> 
> The next stage is having them play in space, but this is getting close to 4:33, which would be derivative and boring.


I'd rather watch that than Eastenders!


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## crmoorhead (Apr 6, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> Yeah, cause Wagner has never written anything thats totally stupid or full of crap.


Indeed not!  Oh, maybe there was sarcasm there...


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

violadude said:


> What she said.
> 
> Also, I like music.


BD is a female?


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

For me the discussion is if it actually is music or 'conceptual art'. Yeah, yeah, I know that all art has a conceptual content, etc. But when I see it, I appreciate more the concept of a string quartet distributed in helicopters rather than enjoying the sound of it with the same intensity with which I enjoy some more 'conventional' pieces (even in the 'avant-garde'). So, for me, it's pure conceptual art. Of course, I'm aware that some people consider it a real piece of music, like any other piece of music, I have no problem with that, it's a valid opinion, in fact, they have said that they enjoy the sound of it in the same way in which they enjoy the sound of any other 'conventional' piece of music. In any case, my point is that the debate about if it is music or conceptual art is not closed at all.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> BD is a female?


Yes :O I am also a homo sapien.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

aleazk said:


> For me the discussion is if it actually is music or 'conceptual art'. Yeah, yeah, I know that all art has a conceptual content, etc. But when I see it, I appreciate more the concept of a string quartet distributed in helicopters rather than enjoying the sound of it with the same intensity with which I enjoy some more 'conventional' pieces (even in the 'avant-garde'). So, for me, it's pure conceptual art. Of course, I'm aware that some people consider it a real piece of music, like any other piece of music, I have no problem with that, it's a valid opinion, in fact, they have said that they enjoy the sound of it in the same way in which they enjoy the sound of any other 'conventional' piece of music. In any case, my point is that the debate about if it is music or conceptual art is not closed at all.


I disagree, because personally I don't really think any work of music can be written off as conceptual art, and not truly music. Every piece of music, even the most ridiculous or bizarre things out there (things like John Cage's _4'33''_) are made up of sounds. _4'33''_ is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.


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## Cnote11 (Jul 17, 2010)

BurningDesire said:


> Yes :O I am also a homo sapien.


I would even go as far to say you're a homo sapien sapien


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Cnote11 said:


> I would even go as far to say you're a homo sapien sapien


_Oh my!~_ You _are_ forward~


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> I disagree, because personally I don't really think any work of music can be written off as conceptual art, and not truly music. Every piece of music, even the most ridiculous or bizarre things out there (things like John Cage's _4'33''_) are made up of sounds. _4'33''_ is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.


Well, yes, I suppose you can say it's conceptual art inside the realm of music, in the same way there's conceptual art in the realm of the visual arts. After all, the HQ indeed takes sound as a part of the whole concept. But since there's more, the conceptual part of the quartet inside a helicopter, this makes it also conceptual art. I any case, personally, I enjoy more the conceptual side, but that is related to my tastes in music. Also I enjoy a lot the 'humour' in the situation, we must admit that the situation is indeed quite bizarre. If you see the videos, the players try to have the same 'solemnity' as if they were playing at a concert hall, which makes the situation comical and surreal, which I also enjoy. But the actual sound doesn't appeal to me.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

aleazk said:


> Well, yes, I suppose you can say it's conceptual art inside the realm of music, in the same way there's conceptual art in the realm of the visual arts. After all, the HQ indeed takes sound as a part of the whole concept. But since there's more, the conceptual part of the quartet inside a helicopter, this makes it also conceptual art. I any case, personally, I enjoy more the conceptual side, but that is related to my tastes in music.


I just don't see why that makes it 'conceptual' to you. I mean, is Haydn's Farewell Symphony conceptual art because the musicians leave over the course of the finale? Is a Crumb piece conceptual because he uses amplified pianos, and he has the musician do many things unusual to them to cull unique sounds out of them?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I was just looking at the Birmingham première of Mittwoch, and it seems, sadly, that only the Helicopter String Quartet will be broadcast/streamed online. It is almost as disappointing as when much of Messiaen's music, including St. François d'Assise, was not broadcast on television during the 2008 Proms, which had a secondary function as a celebration of both his and Carter's centenary.


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

BurningDesire said:


> I just don't see why that makes it 'conceptual' to you. I mean, is Haydn's Farewell Symphony conceptual art because the musicians leave over the course of the finale? Is a Crumb piece conceptual because he uses amplified pianos, and he has the musician do many things unusual to them to cull unique sounds out of them?





> Conceptual art is art in which the concept(s) or idea(s) involved in the work take precedence over traditional aesthetic and material concerns.


If you think that a string quartet in a helicopter doesn't question traditional aesthetic, we have very different notions of what traditional aesthetic in music means (at the time when the piece was conceived). Of course, today you can consider that the HQ is only music and not conceptual art because the kind of ideas suggested by the HG are now part of traditional aesthetic, but not at the time when the piece was conceived. Your suggestion is anachronic.
I also consider that part of Haydn's Farewell Symphony when the musicians leave over the course of the finale as a conceptual element and not a purely musical one.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> I'll let you know after I've seen it live next week...


OK, so now I've seen it live. A few points:

(1) it makes a huge difference hearing it quadraphonically, with each player separated in a different corner of a large space. This enabled the instrumental parts to be disentangled - or, rather, not to get entangled in the first place

(2) the live balance created by Ian Dearden was different to that on the Arditti quartet CD: the rotors less prominent in the mix, and softer sounding. As a result, the instrumental lines were further made clear

(3) seeing it as part of a show puts it in a context you don't/can't get from a CD

(4) it would be very helpful to hear it without the rotors so that one could appreciate better the interplay of the parts (I'm not personally convinced the rotors add much anyway, but I get the point of it being a spectacle)

(5) given 1 and 2, it is much easier to hear it as music and, I think, as interesting music if you hear it under the conditions stipulated by the composer - it just doesn't transfer well to a stereo CD.

To answer the question, does anybody actually like Stockhausen's Helicopter String Quartet, I would say I do. It is now much higher on my list of KS works ranked in order of how much I like them and, of course, when I listen to the CD next time, I will have the experience of the live performance to aid my listening.

What was really interesting about Thursday's performance of the whole of _Mittwoch aus Licht_ was the realisation of how good the first two scenes are - _World parliament_, and _Orchestra finalists_ - the performances were musically superb and the staging went further than I could have imagined possible (these are, after all, just concert works, really). As for the final scene, _Michaelion_, it seemed more obscure than ever.

The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

BurningDesire said:


> ...John Cage's _4'33''_) are made up of sounds. _4'33''_ is made of sounds. They are chance sounds, and alot of the reason people like it is because of the ideas behind it, rather than the piece itself, so I can understand maybe calling it a piece of music AND a piece of conceptual art at the same time, but even the weirdest, most abstract pieces are made of organized sounds. They aren't just abstract ideas floating in the air.


As I understand it, 4'33" is like a framework, a prescribed space in which sound can happen. To experience a 'performance' of this piece, one listens to whatever sounds may occur within the prescribed time of four minutes and thirty-three seconds. So really, the piece does not have any "sounds" in it until we hear whatever it is we hear. This is definitely a "passive" Eastern idea of "letting things happen" instead of the Western way of "composing," determining, and controlling sounds.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org


I watched it. It felt more like a novelty circus.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm thinking Beethoven composed some seriously ugly-sounding music as often as not - and I don't hear anyone whining that it is unpalatable music or a whole era of gimmicks: that's what I'm thinking. 

So, maybe it will take near two hundred years before we get people posting the Helicopter Quartet as one of their favorite pieces, alongside the Grosse Fuga of Beethoven's/


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I watched it. It felt more like a novelty circus.


DId you watch the whole _Mittwoch_? If so, I agree it was like a circus at times. It was meant to be.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Is the complete Mittwoch available to watch anywhere? I'm rather disappointed that this The Space thing only has the quartet and nothing more.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Jeremy Marchant said:


> The 22 August performance of the quartet is available until October here: www.thespace.org


That presenter is very annoying.


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## Jeremy Marchant (Mar 11, 2010)

Crudblud said:


> Is the complete Mittwoch available to watch anywhere? I'm rather disappointed that this The Space thing only has the quartet and nothing more.


It was streamed in full yesterday, but I only learnt that halfway through



emiellucifuge said:


> That presenter is very annoying.


Indeed. The only disappointment of the 6h 15m. But at least I got to ask a question so I will be on the recording when it is issued!


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