# High playing standard.



## Jaws

If someone is described as a high playing standard, what would you expect them to be able to play? Would you expect them to have passed any exams?


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## Ukko

I would have to ask for elucidation; describing someone simply as 'a high playing standard' is gobbledegook.


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## PlaySalieri

I would say it means they can play to a high degree of precision - musically and technically.
But it could be said of someone playing anything from a grade 1 piece up - so does not refer to the complexity of piece.


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## PetrB

'High playing standard' signals to me it is some level of expectation anywhere along the line from beginner to masters in music performance level, after which, the phrase dies or goes moot and is replaced with "Professional."

The phrase has that ring as descriptive on a page of qualifications for auditioning or for entry into a training school or program.

It would have to be known if that appears in the context of a high-school freshman student looking at the qualifications for auditioning for entry into the symphonic wind ensemble, or perhaps a high-school senior hopeful about to audition for acceptance to a university or conservatory as a music major.

Without a context, the phrase is too vague.


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## Jeremy Marchant

stomanek said:


> I would say it means they can play to a high degree of precision - musically and technically.
> But it could be said of someone playing anything from a grade 1 piece up - so does not refer to the complexity of piece.


Good point! 
However, in the context of, for example, carelessly written CD reviews, the phrase "high playing standard" probably refers to the skill implied to tackle a piece of particular complexity/difficulty. For example, to pick up a subject I've been writing on in another thread, no pianist producing a remotely credible performance of Stockhausen's _Klavierstück X_ could have anything other than a very high degree of precision - musically and technically.


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## Jaws

I posted this question because someone recently sent an email asking for extra players for a play day that an orchestra is having. They described the standard that they were looking for as "high standard" grade 8 plus. This didn't mean anything at all to me because a) there isn't an exam called grade 8 plus. b) grade exams don't have anything to do with orchestral playing anyway even if there was one called grade 8 plus c) many of the people I know don't take exams and think of "high standard" as a pro player in a top orchestra d) anyone passing grade 8 more than 20 years ago if taking the same standard exam today it would be grade 7 because standards have risen.

I then asked for an explanation as to what they meant in terms of orchestral music attempted. I got a reply that suggested that the standard that they were looking for was what someone got to when they were 18. As they are looking for string players I can't make this into anything either. It is not unusual for children to pass grade 8 violin at age 11. So this doesn't make sense with the other bit of the reply about not having a diploma or higher. The answer still doesn't tell me what they are looking for in terms of playing ability. What they did also say was that anyone who played in a community orchestra would be able to manage the parts. I do wish they had put this in the first place......


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## PlaySalieri

You are making a lot of this - let me put it simply - they need players who can basically tackle any complexity of repertoire thrown at them. Put it this way - if you can play Bruch's violin concerto to a decent standard - you would be suitable.
Grade 8 plus means you have either passed grade 8 with distinction or are fit to do so.


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## Moira

stomanek said:


> You are making a lot of this - let me put it simply - they need players who can basically tackle any complexity of repertoire thrown at them. Put it this way - if you can play Bruch's violin concerto to a decent standard - you would be suitable.
> Grade 8 plus means you have either passed grade 8 with distinction or are fit to do so.


Yes. The + here would mean a performer's and/or teacher's qualification, perhaps a formal university qualification in music, or some ancillary experience which would be the equivalent (I think here of an orchestra member who has no formal qualifications in music except a lifetime immersed in playing and studying - he is a sought after music competition judge, radio presenter, popular tour leader, often does musical talks, pre-concert talks and writes programme notes.)


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## Jaws

Moira said:


> Yes. The + here would mean a performer's and/or teacher's qualification, perhaps a formal university qualification in music, or some ancillary experience which would be the equivalent (I think here of an orchestra member who has no formal qualifications in music except a lifetime immersed in playing and studying - he is a sought after music competition judge, radio presenter, popular tour leader, often does musical talks, pre-concert talks and writes programme notes.)


When I eventually got a reply from the person who had originally written the grade 8 plus, they said that the grade 8 plus was a guide and that the standard that they were expecting would be below diploma or any sort of music qualification from music college (which would include university,) and that anyone with amateur orchestra playing experience would be what they were looking for. They could have saved a lot of confusion if they had just written this in the first place and left out the grade 8 plus and high standard. The same person then said that they hadn't taken any grades. This would probably explain why he thought he could include grade 8 plus as a standard in ensemble music which of course the grades can never be. Grades can't be used as a standard in ensemble music because they don't test ensemble playing. Comparing grade standards with ensemble playing is like trying to compare apples with bananas. It doesn't mean anything.

If you play Bruch's violin concerto on the violin, you would be way over qualified for this group....


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## PetrB

Jeremy Marchant said:


> Good point!
> However, in the context of, for example, carelessly written CD reviews, the phrase "high playing standard" probably refers to the skill implied to tackle a piece of particular complexity/difficulty. For example, to pick up a subject I've been writing on in another thread, no pianist producing a remotely credible performance of Stockhausen's _Klavierstück X_ could have anything other than a very high degree of precision - musically and technically.


that context is already established, though, as 'concert professional.'


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