# Who is the Best Active Hochdramatischer Sopran?



## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

A lot of TC is about historical singers so I thought I'd make a thread or two focusing on active singers...

So! Who you got?? Those who have heard any of these ladies live, do tell!

Christine Goerke





Evelyn Herlitzius





Petra Lang





Nina Stemme





Irene Theorin





Apologies to anyone else that I have slighted or missed. If anyone has other singers or better examples of the gals in the poll, post them!


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Well this is embarrassing :lol:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Linda Watson was spectacular 20 years ago as Kundry in Seattle. I heard her a number of years later as Bruinhilde in DC and all high notes were flat. All. Tragic decline.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Linda Watson was spectacular 20 years ago as Kundry in Seattle. I heard her a number of years later as Bruinhilde in DC and all high notes were flat. All. Tragic decline.


Ahh that's too bad. I love Linda. Really good woman.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Bonetan said:


> Well this is embarrassing :lol:


Since I've only heard Goerke in the flesh, I'm not qualified to vote.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

wkasimer said:


> Since I've only heard Goerke in the flesh, I'm not qualified to vote.


Ok, please give me your insights on Goerke then! I'm always eager to hear your opinions


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I've heard Goerke (Elektra x4), Stemme (Isolde, Leonore, Kundry), and Theorin (each Brünnhilde twice) live.

My vote went to Nina Stemme, but some of this is because she has been working on these roles for longer than Christine Goerke has. Though I can see revising this after Goerke sings Brünnhilde in Chicago and then Bayreuth, Isolde at the Metropolitan Opera, and Kundry in Houston.

Also I am thankful for the question; it caused me to look to see what Stemme was up to. In October/November she's singing Isolde with the LA Philharmonic (Esa-Pekka Salonen conducts, cast also includes Stephen Gould and James Rutherford). And this is happening at the same time as LA Opera's _Tannhäuser_, with Issachah Savage and Sara Jakubiak.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I voted for Herlitzius because she is the most exciting of these singers (although I haven't seen her live, whereas I have seen all the others and so that may be clouding my judgement).

Some may have missed this superb document of her early Verdi. Well worth watching:









I'm not keen on the type of soprano that normally sings the heaviest roles in the rep, but Herlitzius has a darker colour to her voice than most of them and therefore that's part of the reason she stands out from the others for me.

Of the others I really don't like Stemme or Goerke (the former sings with a potato in her mouth and the latter I find unremarkable). I quite like Foster and Theorin.

N.


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

The Conte said:


> I voted for Herlitzius because she is the most exciting of these singers (although I haven't seen her live, whereas I have seen all the others and so that may be clouding my judgement)


I can def agree with this. I haven't heard her live either, but I was tempted to vote for her. However, I've heard that she can be very inconsistent vocally.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Are we considering these sopranos Höchdramatischer because of the roles they’re singing or because of their vocal endowment?


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

MAS said:


> Are we considering these sopranos Höchdramatischer because of the roles they're singing or because of their vocal endowment?


I would say the roles mostly. I haven't heard all of these ladies live, so I can't speak to their vocal endowment.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> Are we considering these sopranos Höchdramatischer because of the roles they're singing or because of their vocal endowment?


I wouldn't call all of them hochdramatische by virtue of vocal endowment. I think of the term as implying great vocal amplitude on the Flagstad/Traubel/Nilsson/Varnay order. There have never been many of those, and I'm not sure which, if any, of the ladies in question qualify.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I wouldn't call all of them hochdramatische by virtue of vocal endowment. I think of the term as implying great vocal amplitude on the Flagstad/Traubel/Nilsson/Varnay order. There have never been many of those, and I'm not sure which, if any, of the ladies in question qualify.


I wouldn't call any of them hochdramatische because I don't agree with that sort of overly prescriptive fach system and I'm amused at the role reversal here. I understood it as meaning because they all are singing a certain kind of repertoire and didn't want to turn the thread into a fach conversation.

N.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Bonetan said:


> A lot of TC is about historical singers so I thought I'd make a thread or two focusing on active singers...


Based on the YouTube samples you offer:

Christine Goerke has power and a full, dark tone, but an oddly constrained top that tends to go flat (somewhat as Jessye Norman's used to). Too bad, as the basic, mezzo-ish sound suits the repertoire.

Evelyn Herlitzius has a frightful wobble here. You can even see it; watch her mouth quiver. That accords with past hearings of her. That puts her out of the running for me.

Petra Lang can definitely let it rip in "Entweihte Gotter." She's clearly a soprano, not a mezzo, Ortrud. The tone isn't very full, and I'm not sure about the strength of her lower range.

Nina Stemme has a rich, warm timbre, a well-equalized scale, a good midrange, and seemingly plenty of power. This is good.

Irene Theorin has a thinner tone, more vibrato and less power than Stemme. That skimpy final note won't do. Not impressed.

None of them is a Flagstad or a Nilsson, but I think Stemme and Goerke come closest. If Goerke were freer on top I might give the prize to her.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

The Conte said:


> I wouldn't call any of them hochdramatische because I don't agree with that sort of overly prescriptive fach system and I'm amused at the role reversal here. I understood it as meaning because they all are singing a certain kind of repertoire and didn't want to turn the thread into a fach conversation.
> 
> N.


Terms like "dramatic soprano" and "hochdramatische sopran" can be handy; you don't have to believe in an overly prescriptive fach system to find them useful. This one literally means "high dramatic," and has always meant a soprano with extraordinary power and dramatic force capable of singing Isolde and Brunnhilde effectively. It's a rung above dramatic soprano, which implies that very few voices should earn the designation. Deborah Voigt sang Isolde and Brunnhilde, but I wouldn't call her "hochdramatische" just because of her choice of repertoire.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Based on the YouTube samples you offer:
> 
> Christine Goerke has power and a full, dark tone, but an oddly constrained top that tends to go flat (somewhat as Jessye Norman's used to). Too bad, as the basic, mezzo-ish sound suits the repertoire.
> 
> ...


Goerke DID have the top you wanted but I think the increasing amplitude in the middle and bottom took a toll. I heard her in Norma when she was thinner about 20 years ago in Seattle. Her high D made me not so forlorn I never heard Sutherland live. It was gigantic and beautiful. Still, even back then she was not always pitch reliable. 



 It sounded better live and she held her own even then in volume with Ewa Podles


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Goerke DID have the top you wanted but I think the increasing amplitude in the middle and bottom took a toll. I heard her in Norma when she was thinner about 20 years ago in Seattle. Her high D made me not so forlorn I never heard Sutherland live. It was gigantic and beautiful. Still, even back then she was not always pitch reliable.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounded better live and she held her own even then in volume with Ewa Podles


Having just listened today to Voigt's Brunnhilde, I'd say Goerke is almost a dream come true.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Having just listened today to Voigt's Brunnhilde, I'd say Goerke is almost a dream come true.


Brilliant. She doesn't bother me as much as she does you and I find her voice "serviceable", it just lacks the glorious beauty of before. Callas's voice took a big hit after the weight loss, but for a number of years she could still sing very beautifully despite the loss at the very top. Voigt never takes your breath away anymore . Just my 2 cents.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Voigt never takes your breath away anymore . Just my 2 cents.


She sang a lieder recital May of last year and it was painful. I really loved what she was scheduled to sing in the second half of the program but I just could not stick around to hear her sing it.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I feel sorry for what happened to her voice, but sympathy doesn't get you through an opera or a concert.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

"Active".. well, I'd say that expect for Goerke and Kampe all of those listed are probably past their dramatic prime. 

I vote for Stemme, hands down. Heard her Isolde some years ago. Back then a huge, warm, pleasant voice. Very satisfying.

(Must admit that I havn't heard Goerke, Kampe and Theorin live (yet)).

Maybe ask again in 10 years with Lise Davidsen on that list


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