# Callas vs Tebaldi



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

There is a Callas versus Sutherland but in history, the true rivalry was between Callas and Tebaldi in fact. Here is the back room drama for what really went down:

http://operafresh.blogspot.com/2014/09/callas-and-tebaldi-still-rivals-thanks.html

Definitely this is a time to reflect on key moments from this relationship:









Thoughts?


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

at the risk of sounding mean, the thread you referenced was actually a competition, this one is not...


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I got the feeling it was more between their fans than between the divas. Their repertoire did not overlap significantly. They were very different singers. They could not be more unalike, in fact. If either were singing in their prime today they would be preeminent in their repertoire, IMHO. Tebaldi would be classified as having the more beautiful voice of the two, but Callas was much more versitile


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

^^Tebaldi has the more beautiful 'timbre' overall (well, within a limited range), but Callas has the most 'beautifully-expressed' singing I've ever heard.

I can never imagine Tebaldi doing _Medea_, or _Gioconda_, or _Nabucco_.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

I love both unabashedly.
I'm sure many of us have seen this :



The delirious cackling, the screaming...it should tip right over into melodrama for me, but it doesn't. It hits the spot.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

You know, I really like to think that Callas and Tebaldi would secretly meet up, put their feet up, knock back a few drinks, and laugh at the exaggerated rivalry between them.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

undifelice said:


> You know, I really like to think that Callas and Tebaldi would secretly meet up, put their feet up, knock back a few drinks, and laugh at the exaggerated rivalry between them.


That pretty much happened actually.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

undifelice said:


> I love both unabashedly.


Me too.

On stage, there are not so many roles *significantly* tackled by both of them: Aida, Violetta, Tosca, ... Other roles include Mimi, Gioconda, Leonora di Vargas, Maddalena, Fedora,...

Renata Tebaldi sang Gioconda on stage more times than Maria Callas.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

schigolch said:


> Me too.
> 
> On stage, there are not so many roles *significantly* tackled by both of them: Aida, Violetta, Tosca, ... Other roles include Mimi, Gioconda, Leonora di Vargas, Maddalena, Fedora,...
> 
> Renata Tebaldi sang Gioconda on stage more times than Maria Callas.


Callas never sang Mimi on stage, and Tebaldi never sang the *Trovatore* Leonora on stage (she said it lay too high for her). Leonora di Vargas lies much lower and she sang it more often than Callas did.

You're right, Callas didn't sing *La Gioconda* that much on stage. That she is so much associated with it is no doubt because it was the role of her Italian operatic debut and because of her two classic recordings.


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes, you are right. I was thinking Butterfly (that Callas sang only very occasionally) and wrote Mimi. 

I'm getting old, my friend, sorry.

Callas's Gioconda is so famous, because she is so incredibly great in the role.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> ^^Tebaldi has the more beautiful 'timbre' overall (well, within a limited range), but Callas has the most 'beautifully-expressed' singing I've ever heard.
> 
> I can never imagine Tebaldi doing _Medea_, or _Gioconda_, or _Nabucco_.


Actually late in her career Tebaldi suffered a vocal crisis, took off a year, came back with a much more steely tone and undertook Gioconda. I heard it on the Met broadcast on Sirius. It was astounding ( minus a couple of high notes) and her Suicidio was among the very best I've ever heard with thundering "bass" notes. Tebaldi had a voice that could be heard around the block when she wanted to do so, which was not all the time. Although a pretty lady, she was one of the most perfectly constructed physical forms for producing sound I've ever seen, with a wide mask and no neck, a strong jawline and a tall, sturdy but not fat figure. I don't know who I like better in the role of Gioconda, her or Milanov, and that is saying a lot. Medea and Nabucco were verboten to Tebaldi.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Albert7 said:


> There is a Callas versus Sutherland but in history, the true rivalry was between Callas and Tebaldi in fact. Here is the back room drama for what really went down:
> 
> http://operafresh.blogspot.com/2014/09/callas-and-tebaldi-still-rivals-thanks.html
> 
> ...


*I was aware of that "dust up" with early gala event* where both sang with "no encore" backstage agreement, and Tebaldi followed Callas with encore......but later they were on good terms with mutual admiration as shown in that photo.

*That shamefully cheap Decca Tebaldi complete boxset in an insult* to this great artist and all the great recording she made for this label.....

*Early on Tebaldi was a much more dramatic forceful singer*, listen to the swagger and bravura in this 1951 Joan of Arc aria, fantastic! (this crushes new Netrebko release)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

undifelice said:


> I love both unabashedly.
> I'm sure many of us have seen this :
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for that clip. Tebaldi is absolutely hair-raising here - and vocally solid as a rock. It can't hurt us Callas connoisseurs to be reminded of what an outstanding singer and artist her supposedly pretty-but-placid "rival" could be.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Strangely enough, my most favorite recordings of Tebaldi are either live or made very, very early in her career.

Some of the most inspiring live performances of Tebaldi:

The Verdi _Requiem_ with *de Sabata*: There was not even a slightest hint of her typical short top, and her singing was full of drama. All of the phrasings and shadings in _Libera me_ were absolutely hair-raising. Hers is no doubt the type of voice Verdi had in mind when composing this. The transitions among registers were as smooth as Ponselle's, the volume as big as of Nilsson's, not to mention her universally acclaimed beautiful timbre, clear diction and the voice still had some sort of flexibility in it (which was lost in her later career)









_La Forza del Destino_ with *Mitropoulos*: a much more convincing and lively portrait of Leonora than in her studio recording with Decca.









_La Fanciulla del West_: She only sang this role on stage in the 70s, but she sounded too old and too heavy by then. In this radio broadcast made in the early 60s, she made a fierce Minnie and felt completely comfortable with all of the high notes.














_Lohengrin _(!): The young Tebaldi sung some Elsa, Elisabeth and Eva in her early career. Here she is a stunning Elsa, and I read somewhere that Bohm considered her as one of the best (or the best?) Elsa ever.










And last but not least, the famous movie _Aida_ where Sophia Loren lip-synced her. _Singing-wise_, this one would probably be my most favorite Aida. I don't know whether she felt super-inspired in that recording session, or the studio engineers performed some sort of magics post-recording, but she sounded like 20 years younger than she usually did, and everything about this Aida is just flawless. *Check out the phrase from 4:16 to 4:36!*


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Thanks very much for that clip. Tebaldi is absolutely hair-raising here - and vocally solid as a rock. It can't hurt us Callas connoisseurs to be reminded of what an outstanding singer and artist her supposedly pretty-but-placid "rival" could be.


Well, yeah- in _that_ clip Tebaldi sounds great. She has very good dramatic execution as well. I freely admit it with willful alacrity- but all the same,_ La Callas _still would have done it more to my nuanced-liking.

So "_Brava_, Renata!"

- Now if she can do _Medea, Armida, Norma_, and _Lucia_ like Divina, I'll upgrade her from 'Classic Coke' to a 'Moët & Chandon _cuveé_ champagne.'


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

The Verdi Requiem only has one B to my knowledge. All the rest was fully within Tebaldi's comfort zone. A and A# were usually rock solid with her to the end. She was fully an Italian Dramatic Soprano and should be dynamite in the Requiem.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Marschallin Blair said:


> Well, yeah- in _that_ clip Tebaldi sounds great. She has very good dramatic execution as well. I freely admit it with willful alacrity- but all the same,_ La Callas _still would have done it more to my nuanced-liking.
> 
> So "_Brava_, Renata!"
> 
> - Now if she can do _Medea, Armida, Norma_, and _Lucia_ like Divina, I'll upgrade her from 'Classic Coke' to a 'Moët & Chandon _cuveé_ champagne.'


Qualified, backhanded, yes-but, my-diva's-more-nuanced-than-your-diva...

Good grief, my dear Marschallin! It's a great performance of a great scene by a great singer the like of whom we are in mortal danger of never again hearing in our lifetimes, the way things are going! "Classic coke?" Classic, period.

Just relish it. "Divina" will still be peering coyly over her fan when it's over.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Verdi Requiem only has one B to my knowledge. All the rest was fully within Tebaldi's comfort zone. A and A# were usually rock solid with her to the end. She was fully an Italian Dramatic Soprano and should be dynamite in the Requiem.


She is; well at least from the bits of the live 1950 Toscanini I've heard. It always comes as such a surprise to me that Decca never recorded her in it. They've now repaired that omission by releasing the live La Scala/De Sabata performance from 1951, but what a shame she never recorded it in the studio.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Qualified, backhanded, yes-but, my-diva's-more-nuanced-than-your-diva...
> 
> Good grief, my dear Marschallin! It's a great performance of a great scene by a great singer the like of whom we are in mortal danger of never again hearing in our lifetimes, the way things are going! "Classic coke?" Classic, period.
> 
> Just relish it. "Divina" will still be peering coyly over her fan when it's over.


Oh Duckie, 'backhanded' isn't my style (you do remember, do you not?: I said that I embraced Tebaldi's singing on that clip with, "willful alacrity"). 'Alacrity' is "cheerful eagerness," by the by.

I'm honest in my assessments though:

-Tebaldi's a tremendous singer- fact.

-Tebaldi could not do a great many Callas standards even remotely approximating the technique and ingenuity that Callas employed- also a fact.

Reigning Queen Tebaldi left La Scala in her prime when up-and-comer Callas was approaching her own- not exactly a vote of self-confidence if you ask me.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Oh Duckie, 'backhanded' isn't my style (you do remember, do you not?: I said that I embraced Tebaldi's singing on that clip with, "willful alacrity"). 'Alacrity' is "cheerful eagerness," by the by. 

I'm sorry, but "yeah, sure, Tebaldi's just terrific in this scene, but Callas the Divine would have done it better [though she never sang the role] and, by the way, Callas did a lot of things Tebaldi couldn't do, which makes Callas a vintage champagne and Tebaldi a common soft drink" is a damn funny way of delivering a "cheerfully eager" compliment to Tebaldi.

But if we must turn simple appreciation (which is what my original post was an attempt at) into comparison, I doubt that Callas could have done that scene better than Tebaldi, as that sort of full-out singing was not the most flattering to the tonal qualities of Callas's voice, and her subtle musicianship would be rather beside the point in this moment of verismo melodrama. There are roles that suited Tebaldi's strengths - her beautiful, even, solid vocal emission and her warm, direct temperament - that Callas tended wisely to avoid, and I propose that Minnie - that simple, hearty gal of the golden west - was one of them. Sometimes "la bella voce" is just what's needed.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> The Verdi Requiem only has one B to my knowledge. All the rest was fully within Tebaldi's comfort zone. A and A# were usually rock solid with her to the end. She was fully an Italian Dramatic Soprano and should be dynamite in the Requiem.


imo, the Requiem is more suited for a _spinto_ soprano. parts of it call for more lyrical, even delicate singing


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

BalalaikaBoy said:


> imo, the Requiem is more suited for a _spinto_ soprano. *parts of it call for more lyrical, even delicate singing*


I think I am more interested in the latter. Most of my other favorite sopranos in this work are Schwarzkopf (de Sabata/Giulini), Gheorghiu (Abbado) and Maria Stader (Fricsay), and none of them are rightfully spinto.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Yes. It certainly appears that Decca has made little effort at offering any real survey of Tebaldi's oeuvre. Honestly I have little by her, and I'm, far less familiar with her work than I should be as this highlights disc suggests.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Oh Duckie, 'backhanded' isn't my style (you do remember, do you not?: I said that I embraced Tebaldi's singing on that clip with, "willful alacrity"). 'Alacrity' is "cheerful eagerness," by the by.
> 
> I'm sorry, but "yeah, sure, Tebaldi's just terrific in this scene, but Callas the Divine would have done it better [though she never sang the role] and, by the way, Callas did a lot of things Tebaldi couldn't do, which makes Callas a vintage champagne and Tebaldi a common soft drink" is a damn funny way of delivering a "cheerfully eager" compliment to Tebaldi.
> 
> But if we must turn simple appreciation (which is what my original post was an attempt at) into comparison, I doubt that Callas could have done that scene better than Tebaldi, as that sort of full-out singing was not the most flattering to the tonal qualities of Callas's voice, and her subtle musicianship would be rather beside the point in this moment of verismo melodrama. There are roles that suited Tebaldi's strengths - her beautiful, even, solid vocal emission and her warm, direct temperament - that Callas tended wisely to avoid, and I propose that Minnie - that simple, hearty gal of the golden west - was one of them. Sometimes "la bella voce" is just what's needed.


You're too unkind to Renata: _I _never said that she was a "common soft drink"- _you_ did; even though you use quotation marks to misattribute it to me.

What I_ in fact _said was that she was a "Classic Coke"- to wit: a tried-and-true refreshment that almost everyone loves. Callas, by way of wide contrast, is for more rarefied tastes- after all, Tebaldi's Puccini isn't Callas' Bellini, Cherubini, or Donizetti- and hence my comparing her with a vintage champagne- that is to say: something not 'everyone' likes.

You say that Tebaldi's singing in the You Tube clip is "that sort of full-out singing [that] was not the most flattering to the tonal qualities of Callas' voice"- well, behold the woman on that: Callas' '49 _Nabucco_, '52 _Armida_, and '53 La Scala and Florence_ Medeas _witness Callas _simultaneously_ in the most beautiful _and _stentorian of modes. Callas' _Armida_ is chock full of mellifluous, even, and solid vocal effusion-and her "_D'amore al dolce impero_" covers all of the tonal bases from 'warm' to 'beautiful' to 'coloratura-stentorian-declamation-_fierce_'- hardly something Tebaldi would be capable of in one number.

I love some of Tebaldi's singing- I just see vintage Callas from the late forties to the early fifties as being the ultimate singer in terms of aptitude and ability.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Oh Duckie, 'backhanded' isn't my style (you do remember, do you not?: I said that I embraced Tebaldi's singing on that clip with, "willful alacrity"). 'Alacrity' is "cheerful eagerness," by the by.
> 
> I'm sorry, but "yeah, sure, Tebaldi's just terrific in this scene, but Callas the Divine would have done it better [though she never sang the role] and, by the way, Callas did a lot of things Tebaldi couldn't do, which makes Callas a vintage champagne and Tebaldi a common soft drink" is a damn funny way of delivering a "cheerfully eager" compliment to Tebaldi.
> 
> But if we must turn simple appreciation (which is what my original post was an attempt at) into comparison, I doubt that Callas could have done that scene better than Tebaldi, as that sort of full-out singing was not the most flattering to the tonal qualities of Callas's voice, and her subtle musicianship would be rather beside the point in this moment of verismo melodrama. There are roles that suited Tebaldi's strengths - her beautiful, even, solid vocal emission and her warm, direct temperament - that Callas tended wisely to avoid, and I propose that Minnie - that simple, hearty gal of the golden west - was one of them. Sometimes "la bella voce" is just what's needed.


Though I have a feeling that if you take a look at the score of *Giovanna d'Arco*, you might find that the role requires, like those of Abigaille and Lady Macbeth, a sound coloratura technique. I wonder if Tebaldi renders the score with quite as much accuracy as Callas would have done. And if it's full-out singing that's required, you won't get much better than Callas's Abigaille and Lady Macbeth. This is not to say of course that Tebaldi doesn't sing it well. It's marvelous singing. I'm just questioning your assertion that Callas couldn't have done it better, or at least as well.

That said, I agree that Callas was wise to avoid the role of Minnie, and in fact I'd argue that Puccini was not her natural metier anyway. That she was successful in a range of Puccini roles is more testament to her supreme musicality and intelligence than her voice.


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

silentio said:


> I think I am more interested in the latter. Most of my other favorite sopranos in this work are Schwarzkopf (de Sabata/Giulini), Gheorghiu (Abbado) and Maria Stader (Fricsay), and none of them are rightfully spinto.


I love Schwarzkopf in the Requiem too, but I recently came across a performance of Jessye Norman singing the soprano part in a performance under Muti (with Baltsa, Carreras and Nesterenko) and it just floored me, and I'm not normally a Norman fan!


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I am hoping that Decca/London does better for Tebaldi honestly... they still haven't even given Sutherland the proper treatment for her complete opera recordings that she did for that label either.


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## BalalaikaBoy (Sep 25, 2014)

silentio said:


> I think I am more interested in the latter. Most of my other favorite sopranos in this work are *Schwarzkopf (de Sabata/Giulini)*, Gheorghiu (Abbado) and Maria Stader (Fricsay), and none of them are rightfully spinto.


yes! people say that her voice was inappropriate for that work. I couldn't disagree more


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

Sometimes, a lot lately, I just wanna hear a beautiful voice.


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## silentio (Nov 10, 2014)

Itullian said:


> Sometimes, a lot lately, I just wanna hear a beautiful voice.


Then I think your Vicky (my Vicky too  ) is a better option. The tone is equally beautiful, overall more charismatic, and I would less likely bother about top notes being flat,. 

Not to degrade Tebaldi (many of you can see in some posts above that I adore her so much), but her flat, screamy top notes really annoy me.


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## Itullian (Aug 27, 2011)

silentio said:


> Then I think your Vicky (my Vicky too  ) is a better option. The tone is equally beautiful, overall more charismatic, and I would less likely bother about top notes being flat,.
> 
> Not to degrade Tebaldi (many of you can see in some posts above that I adore her so much), but her flat, screamy top notes really annoy me.


I have many in my harem of beautiful voices.
Vicky, Renata, Moffo, Schwartzy, etc :tiphat:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

silentio said:


> Then I think your Vicky (my Vicky too  ) is a better option. The tone is equally beautiful, overall more charismatic, and I would less likely bother about top notes being flat,.
> 
> Not to degrade Tebaldi (many of you can see in some posts above that I adore her so much), but her flat, screamy top notes really annoy me.


When Renata was on pitch she was heaven. Her top often disappoints.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GregMitchell said:


> Though I have a feeling that if you take a look at the score of *Giovanna d'Arco*, you might find that the role requires, like those of Abigaille and Lady Macbeth, a sound coloratura technique. I wonder if Tebaldi renders the score with quite as much accuracy as Callas would have done. *And if it's full-out singing that's required, you won't get much better than Callas's Abigaille and Lady Macbeth. This is not to say of course that Tebaldi doesn't sing it well. It's marvelous singing. I'm just questioning your assertion that Callas couldn't have done it better, or at least as well.*
> 
> That said, I agree that Callas was wise to avoid the role of Minnie, and in fact I'd argue that Puccini was not her natural metier anyway. That she was successful in a range of Puccini roles is more testament to her supreme musicality and intelligence than her voice.


I just find Tebaldi's purer, warmer sound more ingratiating in this sort of singing. Callas in high range at high volume usually doesn't appeal greatly to me purely as sound, and where a special characterization, such as Medea or Lady Macbeth, is not present to absorb or justify Callas's peculiar vocal qualities, Tebaldi just sounds more pleasant to my ear. In most roles Callas is indisputably more interesting; even in Puccini, not her ideal metier, she is so fascinating that Tebaldi can seem ordinary - but not _vocally_ ordinary. There's plenty of music in which a singer needs mainly just to cut loose and sing out, and this scene is that sort of music. I've heard Tebaldi many times before, but haven't listened much recently, and I was actually stunned by the combination of power, passion, and vocal purity she displays in this - and this is late Tebaldi too, only a few years from her retirement. No wonder she was, and is, so loved. I never heard her live, and I'm thinking I don't know her well enough.

Callas may have said in a catty moment that she was champagne and Tebaldi was Coca Cola (you knew that, didn't you, Marschallin Blair? :devil, but the Tebaldi I hear in this clip tastes like a fine chianti.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

Tebaldi in the posted clip takes my breath away every time. It's opera at its most viscerally thrilling. I love the applause and gasps at "Tre assi e un paio!" and the pregnant silences. I show that clip to all my friends and they always ask me "who is _that_?"


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Callas may have said in a catty moment that she was champagne and Tebaldi was Coca Cola (you knew that, didn't you, Marschallin Blair? :devil, but the Tebaldi I hear in this clip tastes like a fine chianti.


There seems to be as much controversy about this statement as there is about Callas's voice. According to some, Callas actually stated it was ridiculous to compare the two singers as they were so different and that it would be like comparing champagne to cognac. Somebody in the audience was heard to say, "No, coca-cola." Some attribute the words to Callas, some to someone in the audience. I can't believe that Callas would have been so naive to say them in a public forum, but I have no proof. Whatever the truth of the matter, the words ended up being attributed to Callas, as it fit in better with the media's idea of the bitchy prima donna.


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## Couac Addict (Oct 16, 2013)

I think the 'opera maniacs' (sadly, some of them are media) forget sometimes that it's okay to have more than one great singer.
It's a Highlander mentality.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

Which arias performed by Callas and Tebaldi would you recommend to an opera newbie? Something that would make them sit up and really pay attention?

For Callas, mine are her "Tu che le vanita" (it nigh takes my breath away) and "Una macchia". For Tebaldi, you already know it's the "Fanciulla" poker scene. I would also say her heartbreaking "Con onor muore"; her "tu tu tu's" _hurt_


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## Azol (Jan 25, 2015)

Callas - Ombre leggere - for it demonstrates the high versatility of that voice! Plus it's a showpiece!
Callas - O mio babbino caro - for it's very short and effective - perfect combination for every opera newbie
Callas - Vissi d'arte - Covent Garden video for example or the classical de Sabata recording
Callas +1 on Tu che le vanita, but it may be harder for a newbie since it's such a big scene
Tebaldi - In quelle trine morbide - same deal, short and effective
Tebaldi - Sola, perduta, abbandonata - just to knock them out

As you can see I am more of Callas fan


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> GregMitchell: Though I have a feeling that if you take a look at the score of Giovanna d'Arco, you might find that the role requires, like those of Abigaille and Lady Macbeth, a sound coloratura technique. I wonder if Tebaldi renders the score with quite as much accuracy as Callas would have done.


I was wondering about that unaddressed point myself <_looking back over my shoulder at the good-looking 'Tito' in the salon and winking ;D , and then turning back around with a hair flip _>:

*Could Tebaldi do the entire score to Giovanna d'Arco equally as effectively?- and not just that one 'coloratura-free' dramatic passage in the You Tube clip.*

I love Tebaldi's ingratiatingly-warm tone, and, at least in the case of this short You Tube clip, her sound dramatic sense as well. Its singing of a very high order- perhaps the highest order. . . _for this one isolated passage._ I do wonder however if her tone is enough to navigate the technical complexities of the_ rest _of the score.

A mellifluous timbre (in a limited range) simply isn't enough to thrill me when it comes to dramatically-compelling singing.










_I love Renata's hair!_ Kate from the B-52's please take note. 'Diva' as hell.


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

> Woodduck: Callas may have said in a catty moment that she was champagne and Tebaldi was Coca Cola (you knew that, didn't you, Marschallin Blair? ), but the Tebaldi I hear in this clip tastes like a fine chianti.


_Of course _I knew that- but I deliberately fine-tuned it to compliment Tebaldi by changing "Coca Cola" to "_Classic_ Coke"- something everyone likes.

Whereas not everyone likes the most expensive champagne in the world- that's why I chose a 'Moët & Chandon _cuveé_ champagne' to characterize Callas- admittedly an acquired taste- moreso than a chianti I believe.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Whether or not Callas actually said "Coca Cola," I find all this arcane quibbling over beverages does no credit to two great ladies of opera who need not be forced into odious comparisons every time their work is discussed. We would be privileged beyond measure to have either of their voices filling our opera houses today. 

The presence of the abbreviation "vs." in a thread about opera singers should probably be a red flag for anyone who appreciates great singing but does not care to turn music into a competitive sport.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

Marschallin Blair said:


> I was wondering about that unaddressed point myself <_looking back over my shoulder at the good-looking 'Tito' in the salon and winking ;D , and then turning back around with a hair flip _>:
> 
> *Could Tebaldi do the entire score to Giovanna d'Arco equally as effectively?- and not just that one 'coloratura-free' dramatic passage in the You Tube clip.*
> 
> ...




Believe me the Tebaldi - Joan of Arc is magnificent throughout, younger Renata was much bolder in her style, this is the maid of Orleans you want to carry the french banner into battle for the glory of god........

Check another clip here 2:40 -> 4:27 beauty and power go hand in hand.....






Tebaldi is hands down champion of big hair, no doubt!


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

DarkAngel said:


> Believe me the Tebaldi - Joan of Arc is magnificent throughout, younger Renata was much more bold in her style, this is the maid of Orleans you want to carry your banner into battle for the glory of god........
> 
> Check another clip here 2:40 -> 4:27 beauty and power go hand in hand.....
> 
> ...


_Merci_, D.A. (yeah, huge hair_ rules_).

I already ordered her Joannie, now I'll order her Fanciulla as well. . .

- See, I 'can' be fair-and-balanced, Woodduck. _;D_


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## Marschallin Blair (Jan 23, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Whether or not Callas actually said "Coca Cola," I find all this arcane quibbling over beverages does no credit to two great ladies of opera who need not be forced into odious comparisons every time their work is discussed. We would be privileged beyond measure to have either of their voices filling our opera houses today.
> 
> The presence of the abbreviation "vs." in a thread about opera singers should probably be a red flag for anyone who appreciates great singing but does not care to turn music into a competitive sport.


Its _not _'arcane'- its Life and DEATH, Baby.

Parsifal is your Religion. Divina is Mine.
_
;D_


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## Retired (Feb 15, 2015)

Good Word!!! Why do I expect Hulk Hogan to appear ringside waiting for the tag team "touch". Enjoy these great artists for what they were. I suspect a lot of this had to do with PR much like today...keeps the name in the headlines.


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## undifelice (Mar 11, 2015)

DarkAngel said:


> Believe me the Tebaldi - Joan of Arc is magnificent throughout, younger Renata was much bolder in her style, this is the maid of Orleans you want to carry the french banner into battle for the glory of god........
> 
> Check another clip here 2:40 -> 4:27 beauty and power go hand in hand.....
> 
> ...


Good God, she looks *fierce* on that "Fanciulla" cover.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

That shamefully cheap Decca Tebaldi complete boxset in an insult to this great artist and all the great recording she made for this label.....










Most of the reviews seem to agree that the packaging on this box set leaves much to be desired... especially for a singer as brilliant as Tebaldi. There is also the complaint that none of the recordings have been remastered. Of course considering the slip-shod mess made under the guise of "remastering" many classic recordings, that might not be a bad thing. But looking at all that is contained in this set... vs the price of purchasing the same recordings individually... those that are still in print and available... I cannot help but think that this is the best option to a fuller grasp of Tebaldi's achievements.

The set is available on Spotify... and I will be listening to some of it there later.

Currently listening to this recital disc:


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

Woodduck said:


> Whether or not Callas actually said "Coca Cola," I find all this arcane quibbling over beverages does no credit to two great ladies of opera who need not be forced into odious comparisons every time their work is discussed. We would be privileged beyond measure to have either of their voices filling our opera houses today.
> 
> The presence of the abbreviation "vs." in a thread about opera singers should probably be a red flag for anyone who appreciates great singing but does not care to turn music into a competitive sport.


Bravo, well said, when I read the title of this thread I thought, "Good Lord, another soprano smackdown! Enough already"

During my days back in college I was fortunate enough to hear Leontyne Price, Joan Sutherland, Birgit Nilsson, Martina Arroyo, and Beverly Sills (who so charmingly missed one of those 'jumps of a 9th' ornaments in the second-time-around of "O luce di quest'anima, uh-oh") alternately treading the boards at Woolsey Hall, and alternately fell in love (or intense admiration) with each of them. Where are such enormous talents today? Enjoy the gifts that each Great Lady brings and watch basketball if you want competition. (Or read idiotic remarks on YouTube.) Even to this day, I can remember _specific moments_ of each of their incredible performances.

Best Regards, 

George


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## Diminuendo (May 5, 2015)

I just like them both


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## battistini (Jan 22, 2021)

I haven't read all the posts in this thread I am sure I have very little additional to contribute. From the recorded evidence (and I admit this is a huge fault in my appreciation because live is very different), Tebaldi was much better live than she was recorded, by and large. But part of this was her horrendous horrendous horrendous Decca production team. OMG. And Callas, by comparison, had the best of the best of the best. I don't get how two companies can have such divergent success, unless at that moment the Decca sound had an appeal it doesn 't have for me. But to that one would have to add the inferior casting, and mediocre conducting, the conducting is really where Tebaldi's recordings fall short. And her greatest live recordings have great conductors.

What would "re-mastering" do? I don't know what is possible. Callas's studio recordings always sounded great to me. Tebaldi's always sounded lousy to me, especially the stereo ones. I am speaking to the complete recordings. So many killer disappointments. Her earlier Otello for example is so much more intimate sounding than the stereo remake but wow Protti is such a disappointment in both he kills it. The same for the Aida. the stereo remake should be magnificant and each of its singers are fabulous but that sound and noise! Yuck.

The lousy presentation of the Tebaldi boxed set compared to the latest Callas set was just a final insult.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

battistini said:


> I haven't read all the posts in this thread I am sure I have very little additional to contribute. From the recorded evidence (and I admit this is a huge fault in my appreciation because live is very different), Tebaldi was much better live than she was recorded, by and large. But part of this was her horrendous horrendous horrendous Decca production team. OMG. And Callas, by comparison, had the best of the best of the best. I don't get how two companies can have such divergent success, unless at that moment the Decca sound had an appeal it doesn 't have for me. But to that one would have to add the inferior casting, and mediocre conducting, the conducting is really where Tebaldi's recordings fall short. And her greatest live recordings have great conductors.
> 
> What would "re-mastering" do? I don't know what is possible. Callas's studio recordings always sounded great to me. Tebaldi's always sounded lousy to me, especially the stereo ones. I am speaking to the complete recordings. So many killer disappointments. Her earlier Otello for example is so much more intimate sounding than the stereo remake but wow Protti is such a disappointment in both he kills it. The same for the Aida. the stereo remake should be magnificant and each of its singers are fabulous but that sound and noise! Yuck.
> 
> The lousy presentation of the Tebaldi boxed set compared to the latest Callas set was just a final insult.


To my ears, EMI always recorded Callas and Co. "up front." Decca preferred a more homogenous sound. The Decca engineers were more experimental, Culshaw most of all. The *Aida* which von Karajan helmed was the most experimental of all (except for Solti's *Ring*), given Karajan's preference for the sound of the orchestra. The sound is spectacular, though.

Birgit Nilsson always hated the Decca Solti *Ring* recordings, thinking she sounded diminished, being mixed into the orchestra. She wanted to sound special and dominant.

And, by the way, Callas said: "it's like comparing *champagne and cognac*. It was a reporter who retorted: "no, Coca-Cola!" It was attributed to Callas because it would make good copy.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

MAS said:


> Birgit Nilsson always hated the Decca Solti *Ring* recordings, thinking she sounded diminished, being mixed into the orchestra. She wanted to sound special and dominant.


For what it's worth, John Culshaw tells the story differently. According to him, Nilsson had criticized the _Götterdämmerung_ recording for the reason above. But when Culshaw played it for in Vienna, first on studio equipment, then on a cheap portable record player, she agreed the balance was fine.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

These are interesting comparisons of the two very different sets of studio recordings. It depends to a certain degree how much you are a fan of Del monaco, Bastianini and Simionato you are versus, Di Stefano, Gobbi and Barbieri. I prefer the latter (apart from Barbieri, but Simionato tended to be more sedate in the recording studio and Barbieri wasn't to be sniffed at). However, Callas was also recorded more often with lesser singers, whereas Decca tended to place their Tebaldi cast next to her on almost every release. Callas had Serafin and when she didn't have Di Stefano, at least Tucker is in the Forza and Aida and Corelli in the second Norma (Shame about Filippeschi and Fernandi). Panerai makes up for the few good baritone roles that weren't recorded with Gobbi. Swings and roundabouts. At the time the Decca recordings were the big sellers, but Callas has stood the test of time better.

N.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

undifelice said:


> I love both unabashedly.
> I'm sure many of us have seen this :
> 
> 
> ...


Totally stupendous and some of her best work even though it was late Tebaldi. This is one of my very favorite scenes in all of opera. I play this scene for non-opera lovers and they are transfixed.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Marschallin Blair said:


> ^^Tebaldi has the more beautiful 'timbre' overall (well, within a limited range), but Callas has the most 'beautifully-expressed' singing I've ever heard.
> 
> I can never imagine Tebaldi doing _Medea_, or _Gioconda_, or _Nabucco_.


Late to the ballgame, but actually Tebaldi had a real hit in her Gioconda late in her career. I've only heard the Suicidio, but it is on Youtube and I get the feeling if you can handle that aria the rest is a breeze, but I am no expert. She was magnificent... one of the best versions I've ever heard of that B***h of an aria. Her chest notes were epic at that stage of her career. If Callas had an edge it wasn't a big one.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

amfortas said:


> For what it's worth, John Culshaw tells the story differently. According to him, Nilsson had criticized the _Götterdämmerung_ recording for the reason above. But when Culshaw played it for in Vienna, first on studio equipment, then on a cheap portable record player, she agreed the balance was fine.


If I remember correctly, Nilsson had played the records on her home equipment and they sounded dismal. Culshaw realized her home equipment was ancient, so they didn't sound well. 
Culshaw bought an ordinary modern portable player. She played the records on that and they sounded fine.
She kept the player. But she continued to complain about it years afterwards (I think she may have put it in her book, but I am not sure).


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## battistini (Jan 22, 2021)

That was my point, that the success or failure of the recordings was independent of any one factor like casting. The Aida is a good example, because by most measures it is a success. The Callas version is perfect. The Tebaldi version does not have a weak link but the sound is awful to my ears, the voices are so distant and the signal to noise ratio is enormous. That works for the Triumphal Scene (for example) but fails the more intimate moments for example Ritorno Vincitor.

Unqualified successes amongst Tebaldi's studio recordings include Andrea Chenier and Don Carlo, both with excellent sound. I am sure there are others but those occur to me immediately. Of course Callas recorded neither. La Forza Del Destino is excellent too, vitiated only by the knowlegde that both Tebaldi and Del Monaco could sing slightly better for a better conductor.


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## amfortas (Jun 15, 2011)

MAS said:


> If I remember correctly, Nilsson had played the records on her home equipment and they sounded dismal. Culshaw realized her home equipment was ancient, so they didn't sound well.
> Culshaw bought an ordinary modern portable player. She played the records on that and they sounded fine.
> She kept the player. But she continued to complain about it years afterwards (I think she may have put it in her book, but I am not sure).


That may well be. I didn't mean to suggest Culshaw's account should be taken as Holy Writ.


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## battistini (Jan 22, 2021)

Can anyone tell me whioch Tebaldi's BEST performance of Adrianna is? And is the Forza with Tebaldi and Corelli available in good sound?


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

battistini said:


> Can anyone tell me whioch Tebaldi's BEST performance of Adrianna is? And is the Forza with Tebaldi and Corelli available in good sound?


If you mean the 1958 Naples performance of *Forza* yes, it is in listenable sound. The cast is unbeatable. Tebaldi, Dominguez, Corelli, Bastianini, Christoff, Capecchi, Molinari-Pradelli.





.






The video, as you can see, is horrible. It's available on Hardy CDs in better sound than the DVD.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

battistini said:


> Can anyone tell me whioch Tebaldi's BEST performance of Adrianna is? And is the Forza with Tebaldi and Corelli available in good sound?


As far as *Adriana Lecouvreur* is concerned, this is my favorite Tebaldi/Corelli from the Metropolitan Opera broadcast.


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## ManuelMozart95 (Sep 29, 2018)

Tebaldi had the more beautiful timbre of the two in my opinion. But Callas was more versatile and was a better actress.
I'd say Callas wins by a small margin.


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