# My second string quartet



## chillowack

My goals with this second string quartet were threefold:

1) To practice varying a motive in creative ways throughout the piece;
2) To learn more about composing strings--particularly, how to achieve that "fluttering," layered upward string ascent used by so many masters (this pattern may perhaps be seen as a motive as well);
3) To get more practice composing different musical and rhythmical patterns at a fast tempo.

Please let me know how I did with these goals, as well as any other comments you might have about this piece. Thanks!


----------



## emiellucifuge

Hey chillowack, nice piece again. Its very similar to your other one..
I didnt get what you mean with the fluttering, could you explain?

Also do you have a score? If not maybe you could put it on solo string sounds because its hard to imagine this being a string quartet with the big lush string orchestra sounds?


----------



## chillowack

emiellucifuge said:


> Hey chillowack, nice piece again. Its very similar to your other one..
> I didnt get what you mean with the fluttering, could you explain?
> 
> Also do you have a score? If not maybe you could put it on solo string sounds because its hard to imagine this being a string quartet with the big lush string orchestra sounds?


How do you feel this piece is similar to my other one? To me it's very different.

By "fluttering" strings, I'm referring to a sort of overlapping, arpeggiated string technique, whereby the strings create an ascending feeling, the actual name of which I am not familiar with. John Williams uses it quite a bit, as do many of the great classical composers. I am attempting to approximate it here by using arpeggios and other patterns, in upwardly ascending progressions. You can hear these motives all through the piece.

I will post the score soon, but what you're hearing are two violins, one viola, and one cello. There are no double-stops this time, and no additional instruments. When two string instruments combine together in Finale, it amplifies the effect considerably.

What do you mean by "put it on solo string sounds"? Is this some kind of feature in Finale? I've been using the default settings.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Im not sure if you have kontakt or GPO, but there are playbacks that actually have the timbre of a solo violin so it sounds realistically like a string quartet. The sound being played back here is a very lush sound and its hard to distinguish each part - also the timbre of a string quartet is quite unique and adds its own colour which is now not present.

Its similar in that they both seem to be upbeat, major, full of fast scales.


----------



## chillowack

Yes, I suppose in those ways this piece could be considered similar to my first string quartet. On the other hand, it also has a number of distinct features, including the three-note motive being repeated in many different ways; the secondary motive of the various ascending progressions; the two solo violin parts; and above all, the extended finale, which is completely unlike my first quartet in every way. (I'm hoping other commentators will notice these features, as they constitute the bulk of my creative efforts in this piece!)

I use only Finale PrintMusic, I don't have Kontakt or GPO. But I agree with you that this is a very "full" sound, and in fact I rather like that: for the spirit of this composition is "symphonic" in nature, i.e. more dramatic than typical "chamber music". So the fact that the piece has come out sounding like more than four instruments is sort of an unlooked-for bonus to me.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, I appreciate them.


----------



## emiellucifuge

If that is how you want this is it not more suitable to have it scored for a string orchestra? 

Maybe if i see a score i will be able to define the differences (and layering effect) more clearly.


----------



## chillowack

Yes, I agree with you that a string orchestra might be a better medium for this piece; and perhaps I should transcribe it for that medium. 

However, since this is only my second string quartet, I am wary of rushing too quickly into another genre. I want to learn as much as I can from this one, before progressing to a bigger one.

I will post the score of this piece soon; I am at work right now, and don't have it handy.


----------



## emiellucifuge

I dont think its a matter of planned education Chillowack!

I think you will learn by writing, and if you write out orchestra instead of quartet you will only have realised the art that was in your head and will have learnt no less.

Maybe seeing as it seems you would prefer this for a string orchestra youre challenge is to write something undeoubtably chamber music.. 'the string quartet'


----------



## chillowack

Okay emiellucifuge, thanks for your comments.


----------



## mueske

I love the harmony at 0.25. it really flows. Simple counterpoint, but effective!


----------



## chillowack

mueske said:


> I love the harmony at 0.25. it really flows. Simple counterpoint, but effective!


Thanks, mueske! I'm glad you mentioned that, because I wasn't sure if it was worth keeping in or not. It's more stylistically suited to string orchestra than quartet, and thus less appropriate for this genre.

But I think emiellucifuge is probably right, I should transcribe this piece for string orchestra; and when I do, I will enhance the passage you mention, for there it will be more appropriate.


----------



## mueske

chillowack said:


> Thanks, mueske! I'm glad you mentioned that, because I wasn't sure if it was worth keeping in or not. It's more stylistically suited to string orchestra than quartet, and thus less appropriate for this genre.
> 
> But I think emiellucifuge is probably right, I should transcribe this piece for string orchestra; and when I do, I will enhance the passage you mention, for there it will be more appropriate.


Nothing wrong with changing conventions, but you should do what you think is best. Experiment, experience, learn, improve!


----------



## emiellucifuge

I dont mean to put pressure on you Chillowack, just some friendly advice


Follow your own ideas hey


----------



## chillowack

Well emiellucifuge, I've given it some thought, and I believe you've made a good point about this. If I like the fact that it sounds more like a string orchestra than a quartet, then maybe that's a sign I should "go the whole hog" and expand it into one.

Orchestra composing is really where I want to go anyway, so I might as well take the opportunity to explore it now.

I just want to be a diligent composing student, and learn as much as possible from each form before rushing on to the next; but maybe that approach is too dogmatic, maybe I should just follow my heart.

Good things to think about, thanks for your input!


----------



## SenorTearduct

"I just want to be a diligent composing student, and learn as much as possible from each form before rushing on to the next; but maybe that approach is too dogmatic, maybe I should just follow my heart."

Chillowack I think you are correct in saying it is most appropiate and most logical in learning as much about a form before going on to another... However, in all logic there is exceptions, but know there is also moderation, do not fear to go to a diffrent form for as you can adapt this piece for a string orcherstra you can easily go back to the string quartet just as soon as you are done with this piece. Experement with what you feel, not the rules. 
I know I'm not the best person to listen from on this subject as my compositional style is that of a hummingbird flutterting from form to form to sample the diffrent nectors all the while making odd and illogical mixes in the forms. But still if you feel it to be what you need to do, do it! 

I think it is diffrent from the other quartets, but similar indeed. I think this is due to the similar style and nature of them all... 

if you want again just Midi me and ill master with Komplete or GPO in Finale


----------



## chillowack

Thanks 'Duct, I appreciate the input!

Yeah, I tend to fall into the "follow your heart" camp as well.


----------



## SenorTearduct

as awalys

and duct? I like it


----------



## Zeniyama

I rather enjoyed this piece, chillowack. Very... flighty seems like a good word for it.

(oohh, I'm tired.)

I've attempted quite a few string quartet works, but I find myself constantly dissatisfied with them. I don't know why, but something just always sounds a bit off about what I try to write.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Getting anywhere with that score chillowack?

Hey Zeniyama, make sure you never burn or throw away the failed scores!


----------



## chillowack

Hi Zeniyama, thanks for your positive comments. I'm currently in the process of licking my wounds after my piano teacher damned the composition with faint praise, but my love of composing will soon have me back in action again.

Emiellucifuge, I must confess that I am reluctant to post scores, because if you post a score on the internet, that means anyone can just steal it, right? Not that my stuff is particularly worth stealing yet, but it's the principle of the thing: it just doesn't feel safe. The score is my only proof that I composed it.

Nor am I yet comfortable with putting my name on the score, because I don't necessarily want the world to know who I am yet: my anonymity here gives me a certain amount of freedom.

Maybe I can use a pseudonym or something; but anyway, that's why I've been slow to post scores.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Hey chillowack, this is the precise reason that we have Copyright laws! anyway you can PM me if you prefer and not mark the score with your name, promise I wont steal it!


----------



## emiellucifuge

Oh and by the way your name is Jason Childress is it not?


----------



## Classical Review

Interesting excerpt. Joyful, almost celebratory. Has a distinctly Classical feel to it, though it's coloured at times by touches of Baroque-style ornamentation.

Nice to hear a contemporary composer who doesn't mind treading in the footprints of western art music's past masters.

FK


----------



## Mark.Stothard

I enjoyed this song a great deal. It takes me to places i haven't been for a long time. I believe music is about escapism, and you allowed me to escape for 1:58mins there.

Thanks for the ear candy.
Regards
Mark.


----------



## chillowack

emiellucifuge, I have sent you a private message.

Mark & FK, I am glad you liked the piece: and I thank you, your comments buoy my spirits considerably in the wake of my teacher's cool reception of the composition.


----------



## mueske

chillowack said:


> emiellucifuge, I have sent you a private message.
> 
> Mark & FK, I am glad you liked the piece: and I thank you, your comments buoy my spirits considerably in the wake of my teacher's cool reception of the composition.


What might he have said?


----------



## chillowack

She said that it was "nice," but that she didn't hear anything new in it. I felt she had to try hard to find something good to say, and I also had the feeling the style of the piece was not one she particularly cared for.

In retrospect, I'm not sure her critique was all that valuable. I think I may be magnifying its importance because she's a master pianist, and I respect her pianistic skill so much; but perhaps that credential is not all-important when it comes to critiquing a string quartet.


----------



## Classical Review

It's possible that your teacher feels your composition belongs to an idiom that has long since past - which is certainly what struck me on first hearing it. That's not to say it's without value. It simply borrows rather heavily from a musical language which has 'had its day', so to speak. But as a pastiche, it works well.

FK


----------



## chillowack

Yes, of course you are right, it's an old-fashioned style. I'm trying to mimic the _style galant_ of Mozart's day.

My idea is to imitate representative composers of each era, and in so doing learn from each of them, as I progress forward in time. This is my way of self-teaching, as I learn the art of classical composition.

Whether this is the "best" way or not, I don't know, but it's highly enjoyable, and I'm definitely learning a lot from each new composition.


----------



## Rasa

I wouldn't class this with the style gallant at all (after a couple of quick hearings):

The ornamentation is too lush for this: it's more suggestive of baroque/roccoco (roccoco also being the beginning of a transition towards the style galant). 

The different entries in the A part of the work are rather suggestive of fugue (granted, the countersubject is missing), and fugue is heavily remniscent of the Baroque (the Renaissance aspect of Baroque). In general, there are too many elements of counterpoint for this to be real "style galant". Style galant was a style that abandoned counterpoint and returned to simpler melodies, accompanied with simple chords and formulas.

In the second A part there is a part where one of the violins plays a virtual polyphony, and polyphony is a thing that wasn't a prominent element in style galant.

There are also some strange modulations which remind of a style even pre-baroque (but of which the leftovers can still be found in the baroque.

The final cadence happens with a fifth degree which is approached with a rising counterpoint, kept for several counts and then falls to the first degree (the coda is quite in the style). There is no semblance of the idiomatic "style galant" ending of ii V I cadence.

To write in style galant, I'd suggest starting with analysis (harmony, ornamentation, structure of phrases) of works by Stamitz or early Mozart pieces.


----------



## chillowack

Thanks for this lucid analysis Rasa, I found it very interesting.

Clearly, I am mixing together several different styles here.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Please Chillowack I would like to see a score!!


----------



## Classical Review

chillowack said:


> My idea is to imitate representative composers of each era, and in so doing learn from each of them, as I progress forward in time. This is my way of self-teaching, as I learn the art of classical composition.


Ah! Now I understand. This work is merely a self-tuition exercise. A commendable idea. What better way to learn than by mimicking? I'm sure it teaches you a great deal.

FK


----------



## SenorTearduct

Rasa I must point out that, "A part of the work are rather suggestive of fugue" was not suggestive of a fugue but rather fugue-like if it was suggestive, it would have to have a clear subject and answer. the answer obviously played in a ditonic interval above or below the subject.. There really was no fugual subject, other than the down scale sequenze which was not a subject but rather a means of transition. Yes it presents counter-point, but if you ever study anything by mozart or even beethoven you'll find most everything they write has counterpoint in it. A prime example being Beethovens 5th, and Mozarts (any symphony past his first 6) or his Mass in c.


----------



## Rasa

Re-read what I wrote.


----------



## chillowack

Classical Review said:


> Ah! Now I understand. This work is merely a self-tuition exercise. A commendable idea. What better way to learn than by mimicking? I'm sure it teaches you a great deal.
> 
> FK


You have grasped my intent perfectly, CR, and I am glad you agree with it. To me this approach is not only instructive, but also very enjoyable.


----------



## chillowack

Okay, I've finally got around to posting this score, which emiellucifuge has been _clamoring_ for.  My apologies for taking so long.

This is the first time I've posted a score online. I hope it's interesting, and I welcome comments.


----------



## Rasa

I always found the beginning odd, and now I know why.

First bar, there's C. this is obviously suggestive of the chords of the tonic. then there's G, suggestive of a dominant. But in the second bar, there's also G, suggestive of dominant. This creates a harmonic syncope, which is something you should avoid.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Thank you,

questions coming soon


----------



## SenorTearduct

Have you been studing the sonata form?


----------



## chillowack

Rasa said:


> I always found the beginning odd, and now I know why.
> 
> First bar, there's C. this is obviously suggestive of the chords of the tonic. then there's G, suggestive of a dominant. But in the second bar, there's also G, suggestive of dominant. This creates a harmonic syncope, which is something you should avoid.


I have absolutely no idea what this means.

To me there's nothing wrong with that three-note progression, it sounds fine.


----------



## chillowack

SenorTearduct said:


> Have you been studing the sonata form?


No, I haven't.


----------



## emiellucifuge

Hey Chillowack, i insinuate nothing with the following words:

You seem to be a diligent student and I would like to suggest another approach to the field of composition. Perhaps it would be better to look at harmony and possibly forms before styles. I admit Aesthetically you have done an excellent job imitating the classical style, but im sure you would find it fascinating to gain a degree of technical knoweldge and then to study classical pieces in depth to understand exactly what it is they have done. 

Of course i have no idea what you have already studied.


----------



## chillowack

Absolutely, I think this is a very good idea, emiellucifuge.

I have taken a break from composing, but when I return to it I plan to continue studying harmony and forms.


----------

