# language barrier?



## AReader (Aug 28, 2010)

I have long wondered whether most Anglophone opera aficionados are able to follow the words, more or less, in the original language -- or whether they instead rely on English subtitles. It seems that a working knowledge is quite important to fully appreciating opera. I have a basic knowledge of the main languages but, because I am by no means fluent, when possible I like to watch opera with subtitles in the original language to help me follow a bit better. I would be interested in hearing from others. Are most people at, say, a performance at the Met relying on the English super-titles?


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Subtitles for me. And if it's opera on cd I follow with the booklet and English translation of the libretto in hand while I'm listening.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

I never use booklet with libretto for CD, like doing work listening to opera......

I do have DVD or Blu Ray of most major operas that I watch with subtitles to understand story and scence for various arias, CD makes much more sense then


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I don't usually listen to opera on CD. For me it is something to be watched, like a movie or a play. I need the subtitles. But after I get immersed I'm not exactly noticing the subtitles, though I must be reading them subconsciously. Or I could just be experiencing this with German operas, as Deutsch seems similar to English in a lot of ways.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I definitely use subtitles the first few times through an aria or opera. If it's in French, I can usually follow along well enough on my own (and even note where liberties have been taken with the translation), in other languages once I know the text well enough the subtitles aren't necessary and I can concentrate more fully on the music and singing.


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## wagner4evr (Jul 10, 2010)

It all depends on how well I know the music in the opera. Although I'm not a musician, for some reason I'm able to access (music) and therefore appreciate difficult operas very quickly. As a result, I tend to rely on the subtitles A LOT for easy operas because I don't want to over-learn the music before attending the performance. For more complex pieces like Tristan/Dammerung/Elektra/Rosencav/etc., I usually will have gone over and over the libretto with the music, and therefore have to rely less on subtitles. I think that's one of the reasons I enjoy the more musically complex productions so much; because I'm more able to instantly appreciate the minute changes in motifs/etc with what's being said without having to be distracted with subtitles.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

I take full advantage of my 'monoglotness'. Hearing the singing as music allows me to ignore those ridiculous plots. The staging is usually ambiguous enough to disguise the inanities.


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## DarkAngel (Aug 11, 2010)

I suspect even if you speak Italian/French you cannot easily understand the artistically modified singing used in opera......especially soprano, so everyone needs subtitles or libretto 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When I first got my feet wet I just collected various aria collection Cds not knowing what was going on or being said just finding the beautiful sounds interesting

But now I really enjoy them so much more when I know the often beautiful and poetic lyrics
*AND*
the action that precedes and follows the aria, also the physical enviroment

Perfect example is *Tosca - vissi d arte*, sounded very nice as an isolated aria, but once I learned the beatifully descriptive poetic lyrics and saw the tragic action that precedes and follows this aria it takes on a completely deeper more complex beauty and importance.......I think it is very important to have a visual DVD reference since opera was never intended to be listened to as audio only performance

_I lived for my art, I lived for love,_
_I never did harm to a living soul!_

_With a secret hand_
_I relieved as many misfortunes as I knew of._
_Always with true faith_
_my prayer __rose to the holy shrines._
_Always with true faith_
_I gave flowers to the altar._
_In the hour of grief_
_why, why, o Lord,_
_why do you reward me thus?_

_I gave jewels for the Madonna's mantle,_
_and I gave my song to the stars, to heaven,_
_which smiled with more beauty._
_In the hour of grief_
_why, why, o Lord,_
_ah, why do you reward me thus? _


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## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Even in languages like French and English where I am fluent I'll use the subtitles in that language on first watching. Opera singers vary wildly in their diction and pronunciation (the only reason I'd put up with Roberto Alagna these days is that his French pronunciation is so clear). 

Although I speak Italian, as DarkAngel says, 18th century poetic Italian is different enough for me to need subtitles, first in English and second time round in Italian. But some operas (Don Giovanni, Nozze etc) i know pretty much by heart by now. Also standard Handel exclamations of the "son tradito...ah che veggio... empio kind

German is the area I've made most progress linguistically in the last year - all that following Wagner with the libretto! However I've read somewhere that Wagner was given to inventing words so I suspect my knowledge is a bit idiosyncratic.

For stuff like Czech and Russian, I just use subtitles - although I can now recognise when Russians are singing about love!

I certainly agree that it enriches one's appreciation to know what is happening in any particular aria or scene.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

*Subtitles, always*

I speak English, French, Spanish, and some Italian (with good comprehension of spoken Italian), but I still use subtitles in all these languages because it is often difficult to undertand the lines due to modifications imposed to the stress and rhythm of words thanks to operatic singing. The subtitles don't bother me at all. And in a language that I don't know - German, Russian - of course the subtitles become even more important.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Like jhar26 I like playing the CD & reading the libretto booklet at the same time. I also listen on my mp3 player as I walk to work. I might get the DVD later but not always.

If I'm going to see one live, I'll read as much as I can about the opera's history, different synopses & re-listen to different recordings. If I've done my homework I don't tend to need surtitiles. For me the effort is worthwhile - a labour of love.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

"For me the effort is worthwhile - a labour of love."

Yes, the effort is worthwhile and I always do it for an opera I'm seeing for the first time, but why not *also* follow the surtitles for an even deeper understanding? They are not as distracting as in the movies, since in opera the lines come less often and are often repeated, so, a quick glance at the surtitle screen at the opera house or the subtitle lines on DVD is enough, and then the eye can rest again on the stage.

Recently I watched Les Troyens for the first time, on a blu-ray disc. Given the importance and complexity of this work, I studied about 16 hours before I watched it (spread out over a few days). I read the entire libretto; brushed up on Virgil; on the history of Troy, Carthage, and Rome; on Berlioz's life and works; read critic reviews; read the booklet that came in the box; watched the bonus documentary; and *then* watched the opera - but still, and although I'm fluent in French, I set the subtitles to French and kept following the libretto again.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Almaviva said:


> "For me the effort is worthwhile - a labour of love."
> 
> Yes, the effort is worthwhile and I always do it for an opera I'm seeing for the first time, but why not *also* follow the surtitles for an even deeper understanding? They are not as distracting as in the movies, since in opera the lines come less often and are often repeated, so, a quick glance at the surtitle screen at the opera house or the subtitle lines on DVD is enough, and then the eye can rest again on the stage.
> 
> Recently I watched Les Troyens for the first time, on a blu-ray disc. Given the importance and complexity of this work, I studied about 16 hours before I watched it (spread out over a few days). I read the entire libretto; brushed up on Virgil; on the history of Troy, Carthage, and Rome; on Berlioz's life and works; read critic reviews; read the booklet that came in the box; watched the bonus documentary; and *then* watched the opera - but still, and although I'm fluent in French, I set the subtitles to French and kept following the libretto again.


You are one dedicated dude!

I usually only see operas I know well or ones without a complicated plot. Don Pasquale for example.


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## Bix (Aug 12, 2010)

Even though I be a bit of a polyglot (Italian also being my second language) I do a bit of both, I find when I get stuck I take a peek at the libretto - its like hearing popular music in English sometimes, I stop and find myself thinking '....what did they just sing, what was that line...'.

My partner was playing a song called Plug in Baby by Muse and there is a line where it says '...baby you gotta lose...' and I heard 'gotta lose' as 'callaloo' (I thought, what is he singing about veg for) - its the same with Opera in languages in which I am fluent, you have to take diction, accent etc into account.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Mamascarlatti and Almaviva*

I am impressed....you speak so many languages! I'm pretty sure you do.

¿No es cierto? Almaviva. Tu hablas bien español, estoy seguro de que me comprendes perfectamente bien...Mucha gente dice que domina el español, pero poca gente lo habla bien. Son más lo que alardean que los que hablan en realidad. También el italiano y el francés. Yo pensaba que tú eras francés, pero eso del fútbol americano...para mí eres yanki...No importa, eres simpático.

Martin


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I am impressed....you speak so many languages! I'm pretty sure you do.
> 
> ¿No es cierto? Almaviva. Tu hablas bien español, estoy seguro de que me comprendes perfectamente bien...Mucha gente dice que domina el español, pero poca gente lo habla bien. Son más lo que alardean que los que hablan en realidad. También el italiano y el francés. Yo pensaba que tú eras francés, pero eso del fútbol americano...para mí eres yanki...No importa, eres simpático.
> 
> Martin


Sí, por supuesto, comprendo todo. Soy americano pero hablo otras lenguas también.


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Subs for me, but I know enough French to be able to (at least on subsequent viewings) be able to follow along fairly well, at least with the recitatives or spoken portions and at times quibble with (or admire the ingenuity of) the translation.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Te felicito*


```
Sí, por supuesto, comprendo todo. Soy americano pero hablo otras lenguas también.
```
Bravo Almaviva!

Chapeau!

Martin


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Recitatives...*


```
Subs for me, but I know enough French to be able to (at least on subsequent viewings) be able to follow along fairly well, at least with the recitatives or spoken portions and at times quibble with (or admire the ingenuity of) the translation.
```
Do you like recitatives? I don't.

Martin


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## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> ```
> Subs for me, but I know enough French to be able to (at least on subsequent viewings) be able to follow along fairly well, at least with the recitatives or spoken portions and at times quibble with (or admire the ingenuity of) the translation.
> ```
> Do you like recitatives? I don't.
> ...


I prefer the singspiel format -- spoken dialogue in-between traditional "numbers" pieces ala The Magic Flute and La Fille du Regiment. I've never been able to warm up to Pelleas et Melisande for that reason; a whole opera of recitatives seems, to me, to kind of undermine the _raison d'etre_ of opera.


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## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I prefer the singspiel format -- spoken dialogue in-between traditional "numbers" pieces ala The Magic Flute and La Fille du Regiment. I've never been able to warm up to Pelleas et Melisande for that reason; a whole opera of recitatives seems, to me, to kind of undermine the _raison d'etre_ of opera.


In this case it would be even more logical for you to like those that have numbers, and recitative in between instead of spoken dialogue.

In my opinion, operas with recitative only can be boring, but can be also very good, like Pelleas et Melisdande, and Peter Grimes. I think it depends more on the overall quality of the opera and its score, than on the presence or absence of numbers.


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## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*Pelleas*

Pelleas is a unique opera...one in a kind...its recitatives...I cannot call that recitatives...more sprechen stuff are part of the opera and...the typical Monet painting is in the music, impressionist...lines are not clear...everything is vague...

This Britten's opera..it is not my cup of tea....

Martin, calm


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I got accustomed to listening to complete opera on LP at about age 13 when I discovered opera and classical music recordings at my locallibrary. 
It had a wide variety of complete opera recordings with the libretto and English translation,and I also gained a valuable familiarity with Italian,French,German, and even Russian and Czech this way.
I no longer need the libretto and translation for any of the best-known operas,and even for lots of less familiar ones I've gotten to know over the years.
But I still use the CD booklet for operas that are new to me, and the substitles are valuable with unfamiliar operas on DVD,too.
But my familiarity with languages has helped me even with cases like this: I recently borrowed the EMI recording of Gounod's Mireille conducted by Andre Cluytens from my library, and the booklet was missing. But I googled tyhe plot of the opera,and was able to understand quite a bit of the libretto because of the familiarity with French I gained over the years by listening to opera recordings.
I've never been much of a Gounod fan.,but I wanted to hear Mireille. It's no masterpiece,but sort of entertaining and pleasantly melodious. I'm already familiar with Faust and Romeo&Juliette.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

When I was just getting into Wagner, I sat through his operas with a headset on and a website with German/English parallel librettos on my laptop in front of me. After a few listens like this I could pretty much remember what is going on at any particular moment. And my knowledge of German, though by no means sufficient, especially for Wagner's somewhat dated language, is quite helpful too. But I still sometimes look into parallel translations now. And I prefer CDs to DVDs, so my eyes remain unoccupied.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

I listen to operas in cd much more often than I watch them on dvd or bluray. Obviously, I have no problems with English or Spanish (castellano is the real name of the language, my mother tongue), not that I have too many operas in Spanish anyway. I speak some German but I need my libretto in English for translation and accuracy. Beyond that, for the three other main languages of operas I like, Italian, Russian and French, I have to be a slave of the libretto, lest I totally ignore what's going on


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

When I watch DVDs, I do use the English subtitles -- even when the opera is sung in German, with which I'm familiar. When I'm first getting acquainted with a particular opera via an audio recording, I'll follow along in the libretto for the first few times. After that, I just listen to the recording without the libretto. When I attend a live performance, I don't pay any attention to the surtitles -- usually because I'm sufficiently familiar with the opera being staged.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

The next Live in HD opera from the met I see, Manon, I'm going to approach just like I would a movie, without reading the synopsis or libretto first. That way I'll be able to gague how good my spanish is coming when I try to read the subtitles. 

I kind of half tried this with ernani, but I couldn't help but read the synopsis in the program during the 20 minutes I had before the opera started. 

I like to be entertained by the surprised, the plot twists etc, and knowing what is about to happen kind of ruins it for me.


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