# Jean Baptiste Lully



## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Jean Baptiste Lully (1632 - 1687), an italian born but french composer, the best musician for the Sun King, le Roi Soleil, Louis XIV of France and without any doubt one of the best, if not the best french baroque composers.

Lully was a great discover for me some years ago and is still one of my favourite composers. Among my favourite works are: 

Sacred music:

Te Deum 1677
Petit Motets

Ballets de cour:

Ballet des Arts 1663
Le Triomphe de Bacchus 1666

Intermedes:

Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme 1670
Idylle sur la Paix 1685
Acis et Galatée 1686

Operas (tragedies in music):

Thésée 1675
Atys 1676

I find his works really inspiring and optimistic. The use of basso continuo gives his music a great theatrical sense. I've never found such a joyful and inspiring music in other composers. Why is this great composer neglected nowadays? Seriously, I can tell you my favourite composers and among them Lully is one of my favourites. His music is the only one able to brighten my day in an unimaginable way.

Do you like Jean Baptiste Lully works? What are your favourite compositions / performers / recordings?


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I *love *Jean Baptiste Lully! 
For all that, I still haven't listened to much of what he wrote. 

I agree about the 'joyful inspiring' nature of his music, and I think it's because he was a dancer & his music has very interesting rhythms. I am a dancer myself.

You are also right that he is comparatively neglected. In fact, when we joined TC four years ago, there was no composer guest book on Lully. There is now! 
http://www.talkclassical.com/25050-jean-baptiste-lully.html

I think his comparative neglect (outside France) is because Rameau succeeded him. Rameau is a more sophisticated composer & seems more talented or profound to many - one influential ex-member of TC, PetrB, even preferred him to Bach!

I like French Baroque the best of all the baroque musics partly because of its relative simplicity & strength in melody compared with the other forms. All down to Monsieur Lully! 

My favourites from what I have listened to are well represented on this thread from the group Baroque Exchange:
http://www.talkclassical.com/groups/baroque-exchange-d268-baroque-chat-2-may.html


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

His reputation has taken a bit of a hit due to the rumors that he may have been pedophile, and also that he was able to control the Musical Politics at the Court of The Sun King in way to cause great difficulties for other Composers such as Rameu and Chapantier.
I do enjoy his music albeit not much of it resides in my collection. I do have an excellent Jordi Savall collection of various pieces


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Triplets said:


> His reputation has taken a bit of a hit due to the rumors that he may have been pedophile, and also that he was able to control the Musical Politics at the Court of The Sun King in way to cause great difficulties for other Composers such as Rameu and Chapantier.
> I do enjoy his music albeit not much of it resides in my collection. I do have an excellent Jordi Savall collection of various pieces


That sounds terrible, I didn't know about it. Well... I knew about Lully being mean with other composers but as for pedophile rumors... that is really bad. Reminds me Robert king, anybody knows about this conductor? I remember was condemned for being pedophile.

Speaking about Lully, there is a film: Le Roi danse (The King is Dancing) presenting libertine and pagan Lully. Seems to have a lot of criticism about Louis XIV who leaves aside the religious values to be more "pagan".


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

We watched Le Roi Danse and enjoyed it, but I must say, I don't remember those themes particularly. Louis XIV was sincere enough in his religion but very highly sexed - later on, under the influence of Madame de Maintenon, he was able to toe the church's line.

A good book to read on Louis XIV's sex life is Antonia Fraser's Love & Louis XIV:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17149.Love_and_Louis_XIV

Lully was promiscuous and bisexual but I haven't seen any evidence that he was a paedophile. But then, I haven't studied the matter.

His character was not great - he was avaricious & egotistical & according to one story, kicked his pregnant prima ballerina in the belly so that she'd miscarry & he wouldn't lose her services. He came from a very humble background and no doubt would never have 'made it' without these selfish, greedy qualities.

I still like his music, though. I love biographies but in the end, it's irrelevant, imo.


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## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

Ingélou said:


> I think his comparative neglect (outside France) is because Rameau succeeded him. Rameau is a more sophisticated composer & seems more talented or profound to many - one influential ex-member of TC, PetrB, even preferred him to Bach!
> 
> I like French Baroque the best of all the baroque musics partly because of its relative simplicity & strength in melody compared with the other forms. All down to Monsieur Lully!


The popularity of Baroque composers is an interesting topic. It seems that JS Bach, Vivaldi, and Handel dominate Baroque popularity (and even then it's mainly just the best known "seasonal" works of Vivaldi and Handel), but others like Lully, Telemann, Rameau, Albinoni, and Corelli do get a decent amount of playtime on classical radio in at least some markets. Anyway, there are so many Baroque composers who wrote good music that it's a real shame that there isn't more discussion about them.

I do like the sound of French Baroque music though along with the others and of course Lully is a big part of that. The French pieces have a certain lightness and wit to them. Lully led an interesting life and wrote good music, but perhaps the most interesting thing about him is the way he died!


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Klassik said:


> Lully led an interesting life and wrote good music, but perhaps the most interesting thing about him is the way he died!


I suppose you could say that it was a staff infection.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

He stabbed himself with his stick and it went septic. It would be nice to see the stick. According to French Wikipedia it was



> longue et lourde canne surmontée de rubans et d'un pommeau richement orné,


" long and heavy cane with ribbons on the top and a richly ornamental knob"

I've never heard that he had sex with children. It's interesting to read that Louis 14th took against him because he was gay, that the king hated gays. Louis' brother was gay, out, effeminate, outrageous.

I don't like his music much.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

JSBach85 said:


> That sounds terrible, I didn't know about it. Well... I knew about Lully being mean with other composers but as for pedophile rumors... that is really bad. Reminds me Robert king, anybody knows about this conductor? I remember was condemned for being pedophile.


King was convicted of the sexual abuse of five boys and was sentenced to almost 4 years in prison. He's free now and still making music. Of course, King has claimed that the accusations against him are entirely false.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

JSBach85 said:


> That sounds terrible, I didn't know about it. Well... I knew about Lully being mean with other composers but as for pedophile rumors... that is really bad. Reminds me Robert king, anybody knows about this conductor? I remember was condemned for being pedophile.
> 
> Speaking about Lully, there is a film: Le Roi danse (The King is Dancing) presenting libertine and pagan Lully. Seems to have a lot of criticism about Louis XIV who leaves aside the religious values to be more "pagan".


Wikipedia mentions that he fell out of grace at the French Court due to his "homosexual encounters and dissolute lifestyle ". There was a Historical Fiction in France in the interwar years that claims that Lully participated in the kinds of orgies detailed by the Marquis De Sade, where French children, would be imprisoned and abused for days at a time.
This stuff is unverifiable from our vantage point 400 years later, but it isn't what I would want as a historical legacy


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Well... Regarding the music of Jean Baptiste Lully, I do have some recordings and recently I bought some more. Among the performers, I find Hugo Reyne conducting La Symphonie du Marais my favourite because of his theatrical approach. I really like this recording, part of "Ou Le Musicien Du Soleil" collection, they are all live recordings in Accord Label and quite pricey but really worth the money:

Idylle sur la Paix / Le Temple de la Paix - Hugo Reyne / La Simphonie du Marais


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## Rys (Nov 26, 2016)

Jean-Baptiste Lully is wonderful! A full subtitled version on Atys used to be on Youtube, but I believe it was taken down because of copyright laws. If anyone can find it, could you post it here. It's definitely worth rewatching.


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## JSBach85 (Feb 18, 2017)

Trying to complete the collection Ou Le Musicien du Solei, this is my last purchase:

Lully - Amadis / Hugo Reyne; La Symphonie du Marais 








Amadis is a tragédie en musique, adaptation of Amadis de Gaula, last opera by jean Baptiste Lully, premiered in 1684. The problem is the sound quality, being a live concert. Hugo Reyne with La Symphonie du Marais perform this collection: "Ou Le Musicien du Soleil" with period instruments. This opera is full of beautiful music.

Ouverture:


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

JSBach85 said:


> Well... Regarding the music of Jean Baptiste Lully, I do have some recordings and recently I bought some more. Among the performers, I find Hugo Reyne conducting La Symphonie du Marais my favourite because of his theatrical approach. I really like this recording, part of "Ou Le Musicien Du Soleil" collection, they are all live recordings in Accord Label and quite pricey but really worth the money:
> 
> Idylle sur la Paix / Le Temple de la Paix - Hugo Reyne / La Simphonie du Marais


That was amazing! Very rich and inspiring.


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