# Haydn vs Mozart concertos



## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

I have been eagerly making my way into classical music for roughly one year now. 

I have recently been struck by the relative 'dullness' of Haydn's concertos, compared with Mozart's. The former's string quartets, symphonies and piano trios are amazing, but I find his concertos somewhat clunky and dry in comparison to Mozart's (even the latter's non-piano concertos like the wonderful Flute Concerto K. 313, Clarinet Concerto, Horn Concertos and Violin Concertos). 

Is this a common view? I have read the view that Haydn was not that interested in solo mediums, like the concerto.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

It's a common view, but I can't understand it. Haydn backed off of piano concertos on hearing Mozart's (who wouldn't?) but his two cello concertos and trumpet concerto are absolutely first-drawer. Not dull! They remain exceedingly popular, and deservedly so.

Mozart wrote a trumpet and a cello concerto, but they were lost. Careless of him, I say.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

I do find the trumpet concerto to be the best.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

I agree with KenOC listen to those cello concertos and I don't think you will say they are dull


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Haydn's cello concertos and the trumpet concerto are wonderful works. I'm not enthusiastic about his piano concertos.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

Haydn man said:


> I agree with KenOC listen to those cello concertos and I don't think you will say they are dull


Ah but I have listened to them.


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

RogerWaters said:


> I have recently been struck by the relative 'dullness' of Haydn's concertos ..... Is this a common view?


Mine is another voice that would disagree with the statement.

Actually, I go much further .... I completely disagree with you. His trumpet and cello concertos are wonderful


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

The concerto and the opera were not Haydn's forte. But he wrote very charming pieces nevertheless.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I certainly don't think Haydn's trumpet concerto can be described as 'dull'. If his concertos are not up to Mozart's then he is in the company of practically everyone else!


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

I would rate Haydn's D Major Piano Concerto as the equal of any of Mozart's.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2017)

ArtMusic said:


> The concerto and the opera were not Haydn's forte. But he wrote very charming pieces nevertheless.


Haydn's operas are very good, and I certainly wouldn't describe his 'pieces' as 'charming'.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

I don't think you are misreading things. Haydn wrote 4 or 5 concertos that are world class and Mozart wrote about 35 including concertos for piano, woodwinds and brass. Haydn was a remarkable composer but, outside of his two cello concertos, not particularly in the concerto format. 

There are probably two of his that are a little underrated that haven't shown up here -- the Piano (or keyboard) Concerto called "No. 11" and a concerto for Two Horns and Orchestra in E flat that isn't often played or recorded. 

I find the latter more fun that Haydn's relatively bland Trumpet Concerto. It is sometimes recorded with other "hunting" music. There was once a recording of it by Helmut Muller-Bruhl on the Koch Schwann label that tied it to the similar-horn Symphony No. 72 that I have enjoyed for years.

Haydn also wrote a sinfonia concertante the equal of Mozart's that is sometimes recorded with different instruments in the solo parts.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

larold said:


> I don't think you are misreading things. Haydn wrote 4 or 5 concertos that are world class and Mozart wrote about 35 including concertos for piano, woodwinds and brass. Haydn was a remarkable composer but, outside of his two cello concertos, not particularly in the concerto format (including some attributed to him he did not write.)
> 
> There are probably two of his that are a little underrated that haven't shown up here -- the D major Piano (or keyboard) Concerto called "No. 11" and a concerto for Two Horns and Orchestra in E flat that isn't often played or recorded. I find the latter more fun that Haydn's relatively bland Trumpet Concerto. It is sometimes recorded with other "hunting" music.
> 
> Haydn also wrote a sinfonia concertante the equal of Mozart's that is sometimes recorded with different instruments.


Thanks for the recommendations.

As for people commenting on the Trumpet Concerto. I carelessly omitted that. I think it stands above the others, including the Cello Concertos, which themselves have more staying power than the piano and violin concertos (at least for me: at least so far).


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

The violin concerto(s) are among those that are of dubious Haydn authorship. Many experts think he did not write them.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Mozart is the concerto master of all time - let alone in a comparison with Haydn.

That said - as others have noted - the trumpet concerto, and 2 cello concertos are great. The violin concertos are ordinary I'm afraid. The piano concerto is an attractive piece.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

Haydn concertos I like:

Violin Concerto No. 2
Cello Concerto No. 2
Trumpet Concerto
Piano Concerto Hob XVIII:2
Piano Concerto Hob XVIII:11
Piano Concerto Hob XVIII:F1

I will agree that he did not write as many concerto masterpieces as Mozart, but his output in that area is still pretty good.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

chill782002 said:


> I would rate Haydn's D Major Piano Concerto as the equal of any of Mozart's.


I wouldn't - for me it isn't even close to Mozart's best - but it is a fine piece nonetheless. I also like the early F major one. The G major I find less memorable than either of the others, though worth a listen.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

larold said:


> I don't think you are misreading things. Haydn wrote 4 or 5 concertos that are world class and Mozart wrote about 35 including concertos for piano, woodwinds and brass. Haydn was a remarkable composer but, outside of his two cello concertos, not particularly in the concerto format.
> 
> There are probably two of his that are a little underrated that haven't shown up here -- the Piano (or keyboard) Concerto called "No. 11" and a concerto for Two Horns and Orchestra in E flat that isn't often played or recorded.
> 
> ...


Got to say I find that baffling. The concerto for two horns is fun, but for me the trumpet concerto clearly plumbs greater depths, especially in its affectingly dignified slow movement. Shadows occasionally fall across it which the double horn concerto just doesn't get near.

Still, _vive la différence_.


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## RogerWaters (Feb 13, 2017)

larold said:


> The violin concerto(s) are among those that are of dubious Haydn authorship. Many experts think he did not write them.


I did not know this. Interesting.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Animal the Drummer said:


> Got to say I find that baffling. The concerto for two horns is fun, but for me the trumpet concerto clearly plumbs greater depths, especially in its affectingly dignified slow movement. Shadows occasionally fall across it which the double horn concerto just doesn't get near.
> 
> Still, _vive la différence_.


Haydn does not often come up with memorable tunes. Well, at least not as often as Mozart. The last movement of the trumpet concerto is a major exception. I don't like the work much, but that is simply because I don't like the sound of the trumpet as solo instrument.

As I understand it, Haydn was not a keyboard virtuoso like Mozart, so perhaps did not feel as comfortable writing piano concertos. At the time, it was normal for the composer to perform his own piano concertos. I wonder if this was the case with Haydn?


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Mozart wrote for the piano from his heart. He loved the fortepiano.

Haydn wrote for the piano as a means of exercising composition prowess and creativity. He actually used the clavichord more.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Animal the Drummer said:


> I wouldn't - for me it isn't even close to Mozart's best - but it is a fine piece nonetheless. I also like the early F major one. The G major I find less memorable than either of the others, though worth a listen.


All a matter of personal taste I suppose, although I agree that the G major is not quite to the standard of the others. The D major is wonderful though, I never tire of hearing it. My favourite version is by Nikolai Evrov with the Sofia Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Yordan Dafov.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Haydn's trumpet concerto is for me by far his best concerto (I'm not that keen on the cello concertos) - and I can easily come up with a dozen Mozart concertos that I prefer over it.


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

Mozart beats Haydn hands down regarding the concertos for piano, the violin and of course the glorious clarinet concerto.
I have always loved the more familiar Haydn concertos and would say his two cello concertos are as pleasurable to listen to as anything else from the classical era, and of course the trumpet concerto. I would make a very strong case for the sinfonia concertante in b flat major - really a concerto for violin, cello. oboe and bassoon - a magnificent work and one I return to frequently. It is interesting that the later and the trumpet concerto were written towards the end of Haydn's life and it's a shame he wasn't commissioned to write more.
Haydn's piano concertos are listenable works but I agree that Haydn just wasn't that inspired earlier on with the concerto, but mastered the symphony, piano sonata and string quartet instead.


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