# CPE Bach



## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

He seems to be squashed and forgotten into an era between his great father and Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven. Does he deserve more attention and love from us listeners? Some of his pieces are exceptionally good and very powerful especially his piano concerto H427 in D minor to name one masterpiece, the last movement is very special. Is he the leading Bach offspring? I have listened to JC Bach and WF Bach although they don't seem as popular as CPE I think WF was slightly more inventive then his younger brother but I still find them hard to separate.


----------



## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes, I think CPE Bach is one of the most underrated composers. I really enjoy his cello concertos and his Sinfonias.


----------



## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Very good composer. David Wright thinks he is the best Bach, even over his father.


----------



## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

"David Allen Wright is an American professional baseball third baseman who serves as captain for the New York Mets of Major League Baseball. He was drafted by the Mets in 2001 and made his major league debut in 2004." He should know.

I quite like CPE's concertos (especially those for organ and for cello). But I can think of scores of composers I prefer.


----------



## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Maybe he is the best of chasing pack - I read a lot of psoitive comments on here about CPE - but his 12 minute symphonies just dont do anything for me. I have heard he is more noted for his k/b sonatas.


----------



## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Phil loves classical said:


> Very good composer. David Wright thinks he is the best Bach, even over his father.


Okay, maybe not that good...


----------



## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Art Rock said:


> "David Allen Wright is an American professional baseball third baseman who serves as captain for the New York Mets of Major League Baseball. He was drafted by the Mets in 2001 and made his major league debut in 2004." He should know.
> 
> I quite like CPE's concertos (especially those for organ and for cello). But I can think of scores of composers I prefer.


"David Wright (born 24 October 1953 in Kent, UK), is the keyboard player and composer who founded the new-age music label AD Music in 1989. He is also co-founder of the New Age electronic rock band Code Indigo and of the new-age music duo Callisto."

A bit better than the baseball player, but should a rock musician be talking about which Bachs are better?


----------



## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

I think CPE Bach was the most important composer of his generation and the foremost master of the keyboard concerto before Mozart. His symphonies are excellent as are many of his keyboard sonatas. Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven all thought it was essential to know his music.


----------



## Klassik (Mar 14, 2017)

When Mozart said, “Bach is the father, we are the children,” he was talking about CPE and not JS. It has been said that Haydn and Beethoven were big fans of CPE. It seems that at one point in time CPE was more famous than his father, but obviously that reputation has not held up over time as his father's music made a comeback.

Anyway, I do like the music of CPE Bach. I can't say at this time that his music is the "best" of JS's descendants, but it's probably up there. CPE did not compose the same style of music as his father's, perhaps intentionally so because he wanted to form his own legacy, but in some ways that makes it all the more remarkable. But, anyway, if Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and David Wright of the Mets say he's good, he's probably pretty good!


----------



## Bettina (Sep 29, 2016)

In my opinion, CPE Bach's keyboard fantasias are his best works. I absolutely adore them! Whimsical, imaginative, adventurous...it's like hearing a brilliant improviser working his magic right before your eyes (err...ears, that is). Here's one of my favorites:


----------



## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

I have two discs of his, flute concertos and solo harpsichord works. Both are fantastic! When I initially bought them, I thought I was buying JS, but apparently not.


----------



## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

C. P. E. Bach's Symphony in D major, Wq. 183/1, is the first and most popular of the four Orchester-Sinfonien mit zwölf obligaten Stimmen, Wq. 183, composed in 1776 in Hamburg; the twelve obbligato parts of the title are for 2 horns, 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 violins, viola, cello, bassoon, keyboard and violone. Unlike Bach's earlier symphonies, those of Wq. 183 were composed with winds in mind from the git-go: some of the earlier symphonies include winds, but they were added after the fact and mostly just flesh out/reinforce the string parts; the winds of Wq. 183 have their own unique parts and are treated concertante-like.

The D major symphony has one of the eyebrow-raisingly great openings of any early Classical symphony-had CPE's dear old dad not already been dead by the time of this symphony, I'm sure that its opening would have killed him. The Allegro di molto first movement continues on in _sturm und drang_ fashion until gently leading into the brief but lovely Largo middle movement, in which continuo is kept silent to allow for as calm a backdrop as possible for the fluid flutish theme to gently makes its way. The work then ends with a tawdry dance-like Presto, whose lowbrow high spirits are rudely interrupted several times by a dark, menacing little portal from Hell trying to open in the middle of it.

CPE has never been woefully neglected on record-slightly neglected, maybe, but not woefully-and Wq. 183/1 has done particularly well, getting many one-off recordings in addition to being part of several Wq. 183 complete sets. Of the dozen or so recordings that I've heard, I favor the vivacious account by Bernardini/Barokkanerne, which is part of a splendid all-C. P. E. Bach album on the LAWO label that includes another symphony (in E minor, Wq. 178) and two concertos (for oboe in E-flat major, Wq. 165, and for harpsichord in D minor, Wq. 17):





 (I. Allegro di molto)




 (II. Largo)




 (III. Presto)
https://play.spotify.com/album/3rgfFngitUA627znpZ1seN (tracks 10-12)

CPE's 18(?) keyboard fantasias are quite moody and varied, with the final one, Freye Fantasie in F-sharp minor, Wq. 67 (1787), being a particular favorite of mine. Bach dubbed this final fantasia "C. P. E. Bachs Empfindungen" ("C. P. E. Bach's Innermost Feelings") in it's arrangement for keyboard with violin accompaniment, and he directs that it be played "very mournfully and dead slow." The fantasias are, for the most part, more introspective and expressionist than any of the sonatas I've heard, and many, particularly the F-sharp minor, sound distinctly ahead of their time. Alexei Lubimov's highly personal one-off recording of the F-sharp minor Fantasia on a modern piano (from his ECM album _Der Bote_) is my favorite recording of the work:


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

beetzart said:


> He seems to be squashed and forgotten into an era between his great father and Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven. Does he deserve more attention and love from us listeners? Some of his pieces are exceptionally good and very powerful especially his piano concerto H427 in D minor to name one masterpiece, the last movement is very special. Is he the leading Bach offspring? I have listened to JC Bach and WF Bach although they don't seem as popular as CPE I think WF was slightly more inventive then his younger brother but I still find them hard to separate.


He was one of the most original and influential composers of the mid to late 18h century.


----------



## Myriadi (Mar 6, 2016)

CPE was an astounding composer. Very uneven, as is usual with incredibly productive composers and artists, but phenomenal. Apart from the excellent keyboard music I'm very fond of the sublime Gellert Oden:






There's also a fantastic cycle of keyboard concertos, Wq. 43, famous for its unorthodox approach to structure, with many kinds of unexpected turns and puzzles in how the material unfolds. It's not the most accessible music, and requires attentive listening, but I eventually found myself enamored with it. I think CPE was one of many victims of the stupid era classification musicologists invented, the "Renaissance - Baroque - Classical - Romantic" thing. Anybody who doesn't fit is a "transitional figure" and, as a rule, such composers are far less known than those who "represent the pinnacle of [Renaissance/Baroque/Classical/Romantic] style".


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

As an aside, from CPE Bach himself:

"Variation is imperative for repetition these days. It is expected of all performers."

In other words, when repeats were taken, it was expected for performers to embellish them.

As to CPE Bach and Haydn, for that matter, played on modern piano:

"Long ago, most of us accepted Haydn played on modern instruments-their sound completely foreign to what this composer knew." Alex McGehee.

As for myself, I prefer to listen to CPE Bach and Haydn keyboard works played on fortepiano with a performer who takes repeats and embellishes them.

That's the way the composers expected them to be performed and that's good enough for me.


----------



## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

hpowders said:


> ...As for myself, I prefer to listen to CPE Bach and Haydn keyboard works played on fortepiano with a performer who takes repeats and embellishes them.
> 
> That's the way the composers expected them to be performed and that's good enough for me.


When I buy a Ford car, I insist on a Model-T or Model-A because that's what Henry Ford expected to ride in. 

I'm the opposite. I insist on a modern piano for any keyboard works regardless of the era in which they were composed. I may be wrong, but my guess is that Haydn would have loved to hear his works on the modern grand.


----------



## Schumanniac (Dec 11, 2016)

Hes well known but i would agree he should be a more highly rated composer, one of the wonders of his age, albeit i should add i have yet to explore beyond his keyboard works, so i cannot jugde his proficiency across a wider spectrum of genres.

But give this man any kind of keyboard, and you can leave it with that or add any instrument or any arrangement of orchestra to accompany and he will give you magic. Hes got that spontaneous quality that i allways adore among composers, because it feels like a more subconscious expression in contrast to the more stately and reserved, fluctuating between the dramatic and the highly sensitive. Hes really growing on me, and to add further praise i have allways struggled with pre-beethoven/schubert, so far only Mozart, Handel and CPE Bach speaks to me.

Where would you far more ancient (  ) and experienced ladies and gentlemen recommend exploring when im done with keyboard works?


----------



## beetzart (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes, there is much to enjoy beyond the keyboard works. Start with the divine symphony in D Wq 183/1. This is part of a set of four symphonies. Another favourite of mine is symphony in E flat H654. As for concertos try his keyboard ones in D minor Wq. 23 and C minor Wq. 31 both are worth a listen. That is just the tip of the iceberg. But those are some of my favourites.


----------



## Alfacharger (Dec 6, 2013)

beetzart said:


> Yes, there is much to enjoy beyond the keyboard works. Start with the divine symphony in D Wq 183/1. This is part of a set of four symphonies. Another favourite of mine is symphony in E flat H654. As for concertos try his keyboard ones in D minor Wq. 23 and C minor Wq. 31 both are worth a listen. That is just the tip of the iceberg. But those are some of my favourites.


Don't forget his vocal works.


----------



## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

This thread's content could be moved to Composer Guestbooks:

Thread: Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach


----------

