# Haydn Symphony No. 3



## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Anyone have a favourite performance? I found Fischer slow and uninvolved. I found Hogwood more involved, and I didn't mind the slowness:




But I like Dorati even more on Spotify, so much more involved than Fischer, and more beautiful and incisive than Hogwood.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

> But I like Dorati even more on Spotify, so much more involved than Fischer, and more beautiful and incisive than Hogwood.


And even after all this years great sound, must have Haydn box.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

But I just bought Fischer's box . Fischer's 1, 2, 4, 5 were excellent, though ...

I just ordered the Dorati box, as I must have a good version of 3; there was a Like New box on Amazon Japan for £298.23... an unmissable bargain.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2018)

What do you like particularly about 3 Mal?

I just have the Fischer.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

It's the first symphony, and Haydn made a famous speech about it before Prince Easterhazy, and all his aristocratic friends, declaring, "I have invented a new form today that will have you bowing down before me and declaring me your King, now listen and tremble at the might of my music!" Fischer doesn't capture the monumental grandeur inherent in the symphony. Dorati might, but I couldn't quite hear it on my Spotify stream, so I'm hoping my Japan box will give me what I want.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2018)

Interesting, I didn't know that. I've just pulled my Wigmore out but he seems to be putting forward 1, 18 or 37 as possible candidates for the first symphony, although he was in no way conclusive about that. Nevertheless, he is highly complementary about 3, and how the influence of the 3rd movement stretches through later Haydn to Mozart, Schubert and Brahms.

I'll give the various versions a spin over the next day or two.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

[Foolish joke deleted... past 12 noon... :devil]

Now, getting serious(ish) again, Symphony 3 is the first Haydn symphony with four movements, which made me think it *might* be a candidate for "first symphony". But I'm no music scholar, so that was just me vapidly musing. I'm not particularly that interested in 3, I'm just listening through Fischer's performances and noting which I like, and which I don't.

On the first disk, I liked Fischer's 1,2,4,and 5, but didn't like 3, and was just wondering why that went wrong (or why my appreciation of it went wrong...) It's something I encounter quite often, recently I was listening to two CDs of the Kodaly quartet playing Haydn and the first quartet on each disk was like watching paint dry, but the other two were wonderful.

So I wonder if it's performers or Haydn or me going wrong. After experiences of digging hard for performances I like, I'm leaning to thinking Haydn is always right...

Thanks for mentioning Wigmore. Does he mention a performance of 3 that he likes? Is that the Faber pocket guide? It's a book I've been meaning to buy. Anyway, I look forward to your comments on which performances you prefer.


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## Larkenfield (Jun 5, 2017)

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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Downtown Sinfonietta, the resident chamber orchestra with the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, also provide a good performance.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Go for the obvious Symphony, eh Mal!?

Being serious for a moment, I thought this work was a bit later than the other low-numbered Symphonies, so yes it is different. Shame of course that these works, beyond Matin Midi et Soir, get overlooked. Hey, give it a nickname, and it'll become ten times more famous!

I do like Dorati almost throughout his wonderful cycle, which must surely be counted among the finest achievements in recording history. I also like Fischer, but agree he can be but and miss, and there is something of the routine about some of his performances, including this one, I fear. I have the incomplete Hogwood set, but I can't remember what his early numbers are like.

The two I like very much are maybe surprising: Naxos have a cobbled-together cycle, and there are some absolute gems in there. No.3 is done by Patrick Gallois and a Finnish orchestra, wonderful fresh and light. And ditto the incomplete Gobermans set. Sound is a bit harsh, but he takes these works seriously, and they too have a fine bounce and proper life to them.


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## T Son of Ander (Aug 25, 2015)

I like Dorati and Davies, but I have always preferred Goodman's Hanover Band recordings on the early Haydn. Never got the whole set, but I have the first 20-some, plus some of the 70s. I really love those recordings.


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Mal said:


> It's the first symphony, and Haydn made a famous speech about it before Prince Easterhazy, and all his aristocratic friends, declaring, "I have invented a new form today that will have you bowing down before me and declaring me your King, now listen and tremble at the might of my music!" Fischer doesn't capture the monumental grandeur inherent in the symphony. Dorati might, but I couldn't quite hear it on my Spotify stream, so I'm hoping my Japan box will give me what I want.


I had to check oxfordmusiconline to see if Haydn really made "the first symphony", and have to disappoint you guys...Johann Stamiz is the man.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2018)

Absolutely. Haydn is the 'father' of the symphony.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

Robert Pickett said:


> I do like Dorati almost throughout his wonderful cycle, which must surely be counted among the finest achievements in recording history. I also like Fischer, but agree he can be but and miss, and there is something of the routine about some of his performances, including this one, I fear. I have the incomplete Hogwood set, but I can't remember what his early numbers are like.


I've reached 12 now in Fischer's set and it's going very well, most of the performances are wonderful, and I feel he becomes routine only in 3, 6, and 9. Not a bad hit rate. The cost of the box was worth the first 3 CDs, and still 30 to go! I'd pick out his soloists for especial praise, the lead violinist is producing a really beautiful sound in most of the adagios, and the double bass and wind are mostly matching him.

I have listened to several Naxos CDs recently, so you do not surprise me. Fischer will have to do very well to better Ward and the NCO in the disk containing 26, 35, and 49.

Here's the excellent Downtown Sinfonietta, which Larkenfield posted but then deleted his post (maybe he got upset about my silly joking around, hey it was April 1... and this thread at core is serious...)






And here's the Naxos take:






Even with Spotify's low bit rate, that sounds excellent. I doubt I'll buy the full Naxos set (famous last words) but will certainly be thinking about buying some more individual disks as supplements, maybe this one.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

T Son of Ander said:


> I like Dorati and Davies, but I have always preferred Goodman's Hanover Band recordings on the early Haydn.


Here's snippets of Goodman 3 on the Hyperion site:

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dw.asp?dc=W241_66524

This does sound dynamic and involved, another worthy contender!


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Going slightly off topic, Mal, I see the Nicholas Ward recordings as the highlight of the Naxos cycle. Great stuff!


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2018)

Mal said:


> [Foolish joke deleted... past 12 noon... :devil]
> 
> Now, getting serious(ish) again, Symphony 3 is the first Haydn symphony with four movements, which made me think it *might* be a candidate for "first symphony". But I'm no music scholar, so that was just me vapidly musing. I'm not particularly that interested in 3, I'm just listening through Fischer's performances and noting which I like, and which I don't.
> 
> ...


I listened to Fischer, Hogwood, Downtown and Dorati. Fischer was fine and warm sounding. There was more life in Hogwood but it became uncomfortably shrill in the 3rd and 4th movements, so I didn't like that. The Downtown band was fine, but the best for me was Dorati, even streaming on Spotify I found it had a greater depth of sound, and was more engaging than the others.

I think Haydn was always right too.  Usually the performers are right but any problems are due to sound reproduction issues or my mood IME.

Yes, it is the Faber Pocket Guide. He is not big on recommendations, and doesn't choose any 3 in particular. I do like the book very much. It is the best written of those that I have (Mozart and Bach too) and as I have the huge Brilliant box set the book works well as my CD sleeve notes. It is very comprehensive.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2018)

Here is a discussion of early Haydn symphonies by a previous generation.

Haydn Symphony Series Part 1: 1-10

3 gets some respect on posts #32 and #34.


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## Mal (Jan 1, 2016)

3 gets the least votes 

I notice Nimbus released Symphonies 1,2,4,5 & 10 on a single disk 

I don't think the performers are always right, Fischer is on record as saying he would like to record about half this set again.


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## KJ von NNJ (Oct 13, 2017)

A wonderful 1st movement. Meditative 2nd. Typical 3rd. Quicksilver, brilliantly short 4th movement. I like Fischer in this one, although the 2nd movement could be a bit quicker without losing it's contemplative base.
I find Fischer to be quite extraordinary in his Austrian Hungarian recordings. These works are always worth hearing. Haydn never ran out of invention. Each symphony has the subtle touch of speciality. Easy to miss, if we are not tuned into the medium and the times.


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