# Leaving Karajan



## lordearl (Sep 7, 2007)

Well after having the 1962 box set of symphonies for 5 years, I'm gonna move on and try another conductor's cycle.

Question is.....which one!?!?!?!

I've read countless reviews stating Harnoncourt, Barenboim, Klemperer, Szell and Gardiner are the best, but all reviews are so biased!!

Can anyone recommend which set is a good stepping stone for someone trying learn how to appreciate what it means to interpret a symphony? I'd like to simply be able to say "this is different because of the woodwind phrasing" etc, rather than just say "this is better than that".

So if anyone knows of a recent set which has top notch sound quality and is different, but not dramatically different, to the Karajan cycle, that would be great.


----------



## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

my sets are hvk & klemperer.
check into some reiner and szell singles.
they are well worth it.

dj


----------



## terotero (Oct 22, 2007)

Hmmm....I take it that you mean Beethoven's 9 symphonies set?
My advice is not to look for another conductor for the whole set but choose performances by piece. Gardiner, I think would be the most rational choice for what you are asking for. Others as Harnoncourt, Jochum, Klemperer, Bruggen are also good sets, each with its own special taste.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

terotero said:


> My advice is not to look for another conductor for the whole set but choose performances by piece.


I'm in the middle of doing that. Right now, I have two of the nine symphonies. (6-Bohm and 9-Fricsay.) If I'm in the mood, I'll get the Kleiber-5/7 the next time I buy CDs.  But once I get all nine, I want to get the set by Gardiner for the HIP.


----------



## lordearl (Sep 7, 2007)

what is HIP?


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Historically Informed Performance

http://www.classical.net/music/rep/hip.html


----------



## terotero (Oct 22, 2007)

opus67 said:


> I'm in the middle of doing that. Right now, I have two of the nine symphonies. (6-Bohm and 9-Fricsay.) If I'm in the mood, I'll get the Kleiber-5/7 the next time I buy CDs.  But once I get all nine, I want to get the set by Gardiner for the HIP.


About Gardiner, leave aside HIP, these performances are excellent (not like Norrington's).


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

terotero said:


> About Gardiner, leave aside HIP, these performances are excellent (not like Norrington's).


I've heard the 3rd (once) and 9th(twice or thrice, probably), and I found the first movement of 3rd very powerful. I felt that the second was taken a bit swiftly, but it's not all that bad. I wonder how the 6th sounds - to me it's the acid test.


----------



## terotero (Oct 22, 2007)

opus67 said:


> ...I wonder how the 6th sounds....


The 6th sounds just great. well balanced and finished.
I recommend Gardiner's 3rd for the "perfect set".


----------



## Gustav (Aug 29, 2005)

Karajan cycle from the mid 70's
Harnoncourt cycle with COE


----------



## Moldyoldie (Apr 6, 2008)

lordearl said:


> Can anyone recommend which set is a good stepping stone for someone trying learn how to appreciate what it means to interpret a symphony? I'd like to simply be able to say "this is different because of the woodwind phrasing" etc, rather than just say "this is better than that".
> 
> So if anyone knows of a recent set which has top notch sound quality and is different, but not dramatically different, to the Karajan cycle, that would be great.


I'd like to suggest the set of three two-fers on DG of Karl Böhm's recordings with the Vienna Philharmonic from the '70s; they're marked by a firm grasp of each symphony's musical "architecture", fine instrumental detail, mostly insistent four-square tempi, and marvelously vibrant up-close analog recording. Since the recorded sound is very much in the DG tradition, a comparison with your '60s Karajan set can be easily facilitated -- and I think the differences are most appreciable.

FWIW, I love Böhm's "high-calorie" _Ninth_ from this set. (Not his later digital _Ninth_, however, which is an exercise in how slow it can go without falling apart entirely.)

Otherwise, I'd concur with the suggestion of the Klemperer set on EMI.


----------



## opus67 (Jan 30, 2007)

Moldyoldie said:


> [Bohm's] later digital _Ninth_, however, which is an exercise in how slow it can go without falling apart entirely.)


And when it does fall apart and slowly degenerate, it would sound like this.

(*WARNING*: Not for the faint-hearted. )


----------



## Moldyoldie (Apr 6, 2008)

opus67 said:


> And when it does fall apart and slowly degenerate, it would sound like this.
> 
> (*WARNING*: Not for the faint-hearted. )


A la the newly deceased Charlton Heston: _"Ooooooohhh myyyyyyy gaaaaaaawd."_


----------



## BAWIG05 (May 14, 2008)

I know this is more than you asked for, but there's a thread for your "favorite symphony cycle", so I'll recomend every symphony and orchestral work one-by-one.

No. 1: George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra
No. 2: Who cares, really. Karajan from '62 is fine here  
No. 3: Karl Bohn/Vienna Philharmonic
No. 4: David Zinman
No. 5: Carlos Kleiber, or his father Erich 
No. 6: Karl Bohm/Vienna Philharmonic, Otto Klemperer
No. 7: Herbert Blomstedt/Dresden Staatskapelle
No. 8: George Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
No. 9: Gunter Wand/NDR Symphony

Odd Choices (Interesting but not the best):

No. 5: Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra 
No. 6: Klaus Tennstedt/London Philharmonic
No. 7: Toscanini/NBC Symphony
No. 9: Carl Maria Giulini/London Philharmonic Orchestra


Piano Concertos

No. 1: Murray Perihia/RCO
No. 2: Glenn Gould/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
No. 3: Leon Fleisher/Cleveland Orchestra
No. 4: Claudio Arrau/Dresden Staatskapelle
No. 5: Yefin Brofman/Tonhalle Zurich
Choral Fantasia: Emmanuel Ax/Zubin Metha/NYPO

Violin Works

Concerto: Heifetz/Munch OR Oistrakh/Cluytens OR Perlman/Giulini
Romance 1: Tetzlaff/Zinman
Romance 2: Oistrakh/Gossens

Missa Solmnis: Bernstein (DG), Zinman (Arte Nova), or Klemperer (EMI)
Overtures: David Zinman


----------

