# Conducting from the piano



## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

So watching this performance of Uchida 



, I notice that she "conducts" when she's not playing. Now my question is, does she really need to do that given that the orchestra is doing just fine when she's playing the piano and thus not "conducting". I quote conducting because her hand waving does not look nearly as involved as the hand waving of professional conductors


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## Judith (Nov 11, 2015)

Saw Leif Ove Andsnes do the same last night at a concert with Norwegian Chamber Orchestra!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Ehh, any old pianist can (and probably does) do that. Now it takes a real musician to conduct and sing at the same time :lol:






Seriously, most of the hard work is during rehearsal. By the time of the performance everyone knows what to expect.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Becca said:


> Ehh, any old pianist can (and probably does) do that. Now it takes a real musician to conduct and sing at the same time :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what I figured as well. Wave a bit to get the audience into it, better than just sitting around. I notice the string players aren't even looking at Uchida's conducting.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Becca said:


> Seriously, most of the hard work is during rehearsal. By the time of the performance everyone knows what to expect.


Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Hence my question why she is even waving her hands at all. If it were me, I'd just sit at the piano, not making silly hand gestures.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Phil loves classical said:


> Yeah, that's what I figured as well. *Wave a bit to get the audience into it*, *better than just sitting around*. I notice the string players aren't even looking at Uchida's conducting.


You think the audience needs Uchida's silly hand waving to get into it? I think sitting at the piano would be better.


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> You think the audience needs Uchida's silly hand waving to get into it? I think sitting at the piano would be better.


I read somewhere that Charles Dutoit was an attention hog, making all these gestures, and the Montreal Symphony just ignores him.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Hence my question why she is even waving her hands at all. If it were me, I'd just sit at the piano, not making silly hand gestures.


I thought that at first but I have seen her do other things, most recently Sibelius' _Luonnotar_, and if you look careful, you will see that she is (usually) beating time and definitely giving cues.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Better than sitting on the pianist or the other way around in some cases.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm not in favor of it. The Perahia Mozart set would have been arguably better with a conductor, IMHO.


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## Norma Skock (Mar 18, 2017)

There's an art to that. Nobody here is questioning Bernstein's conducting from the piano. The Japanese lady looks fake.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Judith said:


> Saw Leif Ove Andsnes do the same last night at a concert with Norwegian Chamber Orchestra!


He seems to have a thing for it...


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Daniel Barenboim , Christian Zacharias, Murray Perahia and Leif Ove Andsnes to name a few doing it.
Specially with Barenboim it's fun to watch.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Up to around the time of Beethoven, conducting from the keyboard was standard practice. But I don't know if they ever waved their hands about, or just played the chords on the keyboard.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

TwoFlutesOneTrumpet said:


> So watching this performance of Uchida
> 
> 
> 
> , I notice that she "conducts" when she's not playing. Now my question is, does she really need to do that given that the orchestra is doing just fine when she's playing the piano and thus not "conducting". I quote conducting because her hand waving does not look nearly as involved as the hand waving of professional conductors


I think she is NOT conducting at all. Nothing compare to Daniel Barenboim or Valdimir Ashkenazy.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

pcnog11 said:


> I think she is NOT conducting at all. Nothing compare to Daniel Barenboim or Valdimir Ashkenazy.


Exactly. That's why I found her choice of standing up and waving her hands silly questionable.


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

brianvds said:


> Up to around the time of Beethoven, conducting from the keyboard was standard practice. But I don't know if they ever waved their hands about, or just played the chords on the keyboard.


I would like to think that they just played on the keyboard


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

brianvds said:


> He seems to have a thing for it...


Only Beethoven can do this! is there any other choral fantasy like this after Beethoven? Well done!

I have one question - does the person in the concertmaster's chair the concertmaster? He seemed to be just another first violin player. Could the person on the right of the soloist the concert master?


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## Alydon (May 16, 2012)

I went to a concert once where Trevor Pinnock was conducting The English Concert from a fortepiano and they appeared to ignore his frantic gestures.


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

pcnog11 said:


> Only Beethoven can do this! is there any other choral fantasy like this after Beethoven? Well done!


I don't think there has ever been anything like it either before or after Beethoven. To me, one of his most exciting works, and a wonderful performance of it.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

pcnog11 said:


> Only Beethoven can do this! is there any other choral fantasy like this after Beethoven? Well done!
> 
> I have one question - does the person in the concertmaster's chair the concertmaster? He seemed to be just another first violin player. Could the person on the right of the soloist the concert master?


No, I don't think so, why should he be?


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Most conductors who conducts at the piano cues the music with his eyes rather than hands.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Murray Perahia's Mozart Concerto set is living proof that piano concertos needs a conductor, so the pianist can concentrate 100% on what he should be doing...playing the piano. I hate this set!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

I don't want to be picky but in this situation isn't it called 'directing' not conducting??


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

^^

That is strange, yesterday I saw Barenboim on the Brava channel, at the end credits it said: conducted and performed by


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

hpowders said:


> Murray Perahia's Mozart Concerto set is living proof that piano concertos needs a conductor, so the pianist can concentrate 100% on what he should be doing...playing the piano. I hate this set!


His version of No. 16 with the English Chamber Orchestra sounds wonderful to my ears.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

bharbeke said:


> His version of No. 16 with the English Chamber Orchestra sounds wonderful to my ears.


You and I have different ears, but that's okay. I'm just glad other posters are listening to these great concertos. 

By the way I prefer Peter Serkin in Concertos 15 16 and 17.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

bharbeke said:


> His version of No. 16 with the English Chamber Orchestra sounds wonderful to my ears.


The whole series of concertos is from great to outstanding.


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## lehnert (Apr 12, 2016)

I once attended a concert where Rudolf Buchbinder conducted three Beethoven's Piano Concertos (1, 3 and 4) from the piano. That must have been really exhausting


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Gulda's two cents about it:


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Pugg said:


> ^^
> 
> That is strange, yesterday I saw Barenboim on the Brava channel, at the end credits it said: conducted and performed by


What a coincidence last night as I was reading your reply on my smart phone and listening to end of day music on radio the announcer said You have been listening to Vivaldi, Viola d'amore RV396 played by and directed by Fabio Biondi, see attached snip:
Also checking my Perahia, Mozart P Con CDs it says on the cover Plays and conducted yet on the notes it says directed, so as you say strange. 








Or does it stand for Dirigent???


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## Rys (Nov 26, 2016)

I read someplace a while ago that Furtwangler used his left hand to create phrasing that sometimes translated only to himself. 
I've never seen a video of Furtwangler conducting, but Uchida's hand motions is how I imagine Furtwangler's left hand was. That is, not necessary or always understandable, but to the conductor the motions bring more emotion, and thus is important.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Pugg said:


> ^^
> 
> That is strange, yesterday I saw Barenboim on the Brava channel, at the end credits it said: conducted and performed by


I have a set of DVD that Barenboim conducts the 5 Beethoven PCs at the piano, unique conducting and well managed performance. Typical Barenboim - innovative but still have the LvB flair and charisma in the music.


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## pcnog11 (Nov 14, 2016)

Imagine how much an orchestra will save if they hire conductors that can conduct at the piano.....they do not need hire the soloists! One person doing 2 jobs, isn't it what modern companies demand of their employees? Sounds familiar? The world has not changed.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Dan Ante said:


> What a coincidence last night as I was reading your reply on my smart phone and listening to end of day music on radio the announcer said You have been listening to Vivaldi, Viola d'amore RV396 played by and directed by Fabio Biondi, see attached snip:
> Also checking my Perahia, Mozart P Con CDs it says on the cover Plays and conducted yet on the notes it says directed, so as you say strange.
> View attachment 93043
> 
> ...


See post 33 ..................


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Pugg said:


> See post 33 ..................


Don't get the connection?


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## sluciani (Apr 26, 2016)

Pugg said:


> Daniel Barenboim , Christian Zacharias, Murray Perahia and Leif Ove Andsnes to name a few doing it.
> Specially with Barenboim it's fun to watch.


The Zacharias Mozart concerti are my favorite set. He's fun to watch conduct as well:


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

sluciani said:


> The Zacharias Mozart concerti are my favorite set. He's fun to watch conduct as well:


As must as I like the newer set, his first set is still my favourite.


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