# Saul's Works



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

One of my compositions for Solo Piano.

Romance In E minor Molto Allegro Appassionato.

Regards,

Saul


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## ScipioAfricanus

brilliant. You have a good grasp of structure and clarity. To me young composers try too hard to sound original and as a result, structure, clarity and enjoyability are lost. But not with you.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ScipioAfricanus said:


> brilliant. You have a good grasp of structure and clarity. To me young composers try too hard to sound original and as a result, structure, clarity and enjoyability are lost. But not with you.


Thank you, I really appreciate this.

Regards,


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## emiellucifuge

Wow its really brilliant and enjoyable, expressive too.

One thing i would add is that might pay to relook your dynamics. This might benefit from a little kore subtlety and nuance, strangelymyou stray from any dynamic below mp where in some places a pianissimo would have a great effect. Also i think try to minimise the big FFs


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thanks you for your comments... and I'm glad you enjoyed the piece.

Its not that easy to judge a piece through a midi, perhaps a recorded performance would have done a better job in showcasing this piece, well this is entirely obvious.

I appreciate your comments,

Regards,

Saul

Three Works:

*Fantasy In F sharp Minor - Allegro Con Fuoco for Solo Piano*






*Scherzo In E major No. 1 - Prestissimo *






*Wild River Etude In F sharp Minor - Presto*


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## ScipioAfricanus

I am really amazed at your clarity. I can tell you really studied Bach, Mozart and Chopin.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ScipioAfricanus said:


> I am really amazed at your clarity. I can tell you really studied Bach, Mozart and Chopin.


Thank you very much.

Here I'm performing my Etude

It is a modern work, not what you'll call 'very classical'...

Cheers,

Saul


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## emiellucifuge

Just to clarify i partly made my observations from the score.


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## Aramis

Those pieces seem pretty nice to me. From technical point of view they are decent, that is, if you are young and unexperienced amateur. 

In your slower pieces (legend, G major prelude) you go too far in shallow, insincere and conventional lyrical language. Work on expression.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

That's cool Emiellucrifuge...

Aramis.. though I disagree with some of your points, its good to hear your point of view.

Best Wishes,

Here's At the Ocean In E major written for Harp, Flute and Violin...

Cheers,

Saul


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## soundandfury

Well, I listened to your "Molto Allegro Appassionato", and, well, it's certainly _Appassionato_. It's mostly very enjoyable, but one thing that I would say is - your climaxes peter out. At least twice, you build up to a _fortissimo_ climax, and then stop - and start again at the beginning of the theme. Now, on its own this needn't be a bad thing, but unfortunately when the theme 'resets', it's not (as far as I can tell) altered at all; it's practically a straight repeat. The very last run of the theme, at the end, is transformed by about as much as you should have transformed it the first time it repeated.
In other words, it's a very nice piece, but it doesn't _last_ six minutes, it merely _goes on_ for six minutes.


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## ScipioAfricanus

Saul I like your Scherzo in B flat.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thank you ScipioAfricanus.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Love In the Forest


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## Aramis

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Love In the Forest


That piece embodies things that I was reffering to in previous post. You give the piece pompous title but you don't put into it anything that would make the music get along with the title - some composers write pieces called Sonata No. X in Y-y and people give it nicknames because they are so rich in real stuff.

You could name this piece "prelude no. X" and this would be as far at the music goes, there is nothing but the piece per se, a conventional and meaningless (perhaps you honestly wanted to give it some particular meaning, but I bet you failed) twang-twang that may seem lyrical and truely emotional to lonely schoolgirl that feels lonely and write poems like:

"och, where are you my love...
och...
I want to die!!!!!!
darkest despair eats my teddy bear
my friend has boyfriend 
I want one too
darkest despair
leave me alone
och
ach
and the rain falls... lonely......"


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## Boccherini

Aramis said:


> ... some composers write pieces called Sonata No. X in Y-y and people give it nicknames *because they are so rich in real stuff*.


Out of curiosity, is that a prejudice or real fact/rule?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Aramis said:


> That piece embodies things that I was reffering to in previous post. You give the piece pompous title but you don't put into it anything that would make the music get along with the title - some composers write pieces called Sonata No. X in Y-y and people give it nicknames because they are so rich in real stuff.
> 
> You could name this piece "prelude no. X" and this would be as far at the music goes, there is nothing but the piece per se, a conventional and meaningless (perhaps you honestly wanted to give it some particular meaning, but I bet you failed) twang-twang that may seem lyrical and truely emotional to lonely schoolgirl that feels lonely and write poems like:
> 
> "och, where are you my love...
> och...
> I want to die!!!!!!
> darkest despair eats my teddy bear
> my friend has boyfriend
> I want one too
> darkest despair
> leave me alone
> och
> ach
> and the rain falls... lonely......"


You sound today like a miserable slob...

Snap out of it...


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## MJTTOMB

if you can't accept criticism, you shouldn't be posting your works on the internet asking for opinions.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

MJTTOMB said:


> if you can't accept criticism, you shouldn't be posting your works on the internet asking for opinions.


Where did I ask anything?

One can't share anything in this world without been criticized?

What is music after all?

Joy!

So enjoy it if you can.

And by the way, if you call his nasty quibble a 'critic' then you got some issues...

His comments were made for one purpose, and that is to inflame.

That's why I told him that he sounded TODAY like a miserable slob, cause that's not the way one criticizes in good faith.

But anyways WHO CARES WHAT HE SAID...?

I couldnt care less about what he said, his comments just made him sound really silly...so I told him to stop it for his own good...

Trust me I'm not going to be the first human being to build a statue for a critic, and neither should you...

Best,

Saul


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## dmg

MJTTOMB said:


> if you can't accept criticism, you shouldn't be posting your works on the internet asking for opinions.


That didn't sound like 'criticism'. That sounded like he was trying to be flat-out insulting. There's a distinct difference.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

dmg said:


> That didn't sound like 'criticism'. That sounded like he was trying to be flat-out insulting. There's a distinct difference.


Thank you...

I mean ... wasnt that categorically obvious?

Cheers,

Saul


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## MJTTOMB

There's also a very distinct difference between "I disagree", and "you've got some issues", or even better yet, "you sound like a miserable slob".

you need to tame your ego. when people give you nice little compliments you appreciate their comments, when people offer less-than-favorable reviews, you lash out.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

MJTTOMB said:


> There's also a very distinct difference between "I disagree", and "you've got some issues", or even better yet, "you sound like a miserable slob".
> 
> you need to tame your ego. when people give you nice little compliments you appreciate their comments, when people offer less-than-favorable reviews, you lash out.


I have no problem with 'less favorable reviews'...

I have a problem with idiotic comments presented as ' helpful criticism'.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my Prelude In B flat major - Largo

Score Included

My shortest composition - 18 measures...

Cheers,

Saul


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## Aramis

> His comments were made for one purpose, and that is to inflame.


Nope, dear sir, they were made in purpose to inform you that pieces in slow tempi are your Achilles' heel - my comment pointed out quite concrete aspect of your compositions that I consider to be weakness and that alone disqualifies it as unconstructive foam-beating written just in purpose to insult you.

Apparently you are not the right person to share my rich thoughts with so I guess I'll just let you be so you can enjoy diffrent kind of comments, devoid of content and constructive meaning that will make you happy until you will get old as composer of twang-twang's that may seem lyrical and (...)


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## Rasa

Boccherini said:


> Out of curiosity, is that a prejudice or real fact/rule?


Beethoven for example never named any of his Sonatas, that is all his editor's or the public's work.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

"share my rich thoughts"...

With 'rich thoughts' like these who needs them 'poor thoughts'...


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Ancient Dance In E minor...

One of my Chamber works..

Cheers,


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## Rasa

Listening to this the first questions that pop up are: how is this a dance, and how is it ancient?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> Listening to this the first questions that pop up are: how is this a dance, and how is it ancient?


Hi good questions.

Well, I had this lady from Jerusalem named Sarah who plays the Oboe purchase the score from me of one of my ancient Dances. That one was in G minor No.1 and basically it has very similar structural similarities with the E minor, the one in question.

I hope that this Email will help you understand why some people (including me) felt that it has an ancient feel, and that its also a dance.

Please read:

*"Hello Dear Sarah, I got the check today. Toda Raba (thank you in Hebrew).

I really liked what you wrote in the letter :" All Beautiful music in the world has in it sparks of the songs of the Holy Temple, which also went into Galut (exile) with the Jewish People"...

That was a beautiful statement, thanks for that.

I have attached my work in a Finale format to this Email and also a PDF file of the work.

Also, you can visit my site at : Musicalpaintings.net to listen to my music, including the Ancient Dance In G minor No.1 that you purchased and the Ancient Dance in G minor No.2 which I find to be beautiful as well. You can also View my Paintings.

I hope that you will enjoy this music.

With Best Wishes,

Saul Dzorelashvili*

*P.S .... I will very much appreciate if you'll keep me updated on the progress of your arrangement and performance of this piece. Please let me know if you have any questions or need any assistance with the work."*

*Ancient Dance In G minor No.1 *


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## Sid James

I listened to these pieces straight through, which (believe me) was quite difficult, because a bit like Aramis above I found them somewhat conventional, shallow and a bit boring. Let me qualify that by saying that you can obviously compose, and have a sound knowledge of counterpoint for one thing. But I think that your knowledge of thematic development may need to be strengthened. I must also say that it's great that you have included the scores with the recording so that musicians can look at exactly what you are doing (I don't read music as I'll go into shortly).

I found the _Romance_ too repetitive - not much development? I thought that the piece was too long for the quality of the material involved. Some editing might help there. The _Fantasy, Scherzo & Wild River Etude_ sounded too much like J.S.Bach - not that there's a problem with that, but some other composers have done more with this kind of influence. Just listen to something like Janacek's _Zdenka Variations_ for piano. I felt that _At The Ocean _and especially _Love in the Forest _suffered from the same fault as the _Romance _- too long for the material.

I am not a composer and don't know how to read music. I am only making criticisms from the point of view of someone with 20+ years of listening to classical music of all types. If you want to extend your range, I would definitely check out some of the piano works of Janacek for a start - he did so many interesting things with the barest bones of ideas. The two cd set on DGG with Rudolf Firkusny playing most (or all?) of Janacek's piano pieces has given me much pleasure. Not to speak of some of the solo piano works of Elliot Carter, which go beyond most of what I've heard...


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Andre said:


> I listened to these pieces straight through, which (believe me) was quite difficult, because a bit like Aramis above I found them somewhat conventional, shallow and a bit boring. Let me qualify that by saying that you can obviously compose, and have a sound knowledge of counterpoint for one thing. But I think that your knowledge of thematic development may need to be strengthened. I must also say that it's great that you have included the scores with the recording so that musicians can look at exactly what you are doing (I don't read music as I'll go into shortly).
> 
> I found the _Romance_ too repetitive - not much development? I thought that the piece was too long for the quality of the material involved. Some editing might help there. The _Fantasy, Scherzo & Wild River Etude_ sounded too much like J.S.Bach - not that there's a problem with that, but some other composers have done more with this kind of influence. Just listen to something like Janacek's _Zdenka Variations_ for piano. I felt that _At The Ocean _and especially _Love in the Forest _suffered from the same fault as the _Romance _- too long for the material.
> 
> I am not a composer and don't know how to read music. I am only making criticisms from the point of view of someone with 20+ years of listening to classical music of all types. If you want to extend your range, I would definitely check out some of the piano works of Janacek for a start - he did so many interesting things with the barest bones of ideas. The two cd set on DGG with Rudolf Firkusny playing most (or all?) of Janacek's piano pieces has given me much pleasure. Not to speak of some of the solo piano works of Elliot Carter, which go beyond most of what I've heard...


Interesting remarks, thank you.
I get such variety of comments about these works, I should mention that the vast majority are positive comments, but I do accept criticism that was made with good intentions.

Best Wishes,

Saul

Here is my string Quartet In B flat major.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

G minor Prelude - Agitato for Solo Piano






Prelude In C major No.2 - Allegro for Solo Piano






Etude In C major No. 2 - Presto Brillante for Solo Piano






Best Regards,

Saul


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## Rasa

I wouldn't want to study arpeggios with that etude.... It's just arpeggios


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## Serge

Wow, Rasa, are you really that bosomy, or is it just your avatar?


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## Bledjan Stufi

ı think your music is not puerile.And this is the biggest sickness of todays composers out of all this rhetorics your etude is good but some parts bragadocio and this composition has a depression about style hence i cant understand. Out of this compositions your music is garbage. The scherzo has an awful melody,your music feels me you'r unexperienced.This is just my opinions.


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## LarsikComposer

I think the first one is quite good (prelude in g minor).

The other two is too "common" if you know what I mean. To me it sound/seems like you have composed them _just_ to compose something (sorry if Im wrong)

Anyway, I`ve been to you youtube-channel and I really like your Prelude in D-flat major. Very pleasing to the ear and still exciting listening to


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Bledjan Stufi said:


> ı think your music is not puerile.And this is the biggest sickness of todays composers out of all this rhetorics your etude is good but some parts bragadocio and this composition has a depression about style hence i cant understand. Out of this compositions your music is garbage. The scherzo has an awful melody,your music feels me you'r unexperienced.This is just my opinions.


Didnt understand a thing you said.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

LarsikComposer said:


> I think the first one is quite good (prelude in g minor).
> 
> The other two is too "common" if you know what I mean. To me it sound/seems like you have composed them _just_ to compose something (sorry if Im wrong)
> 
> Anyway, I`ve been to you youtube-channel and I really like your Prelude in D-flat major. Very pleasing to the ear and still exciting listening to


Thank you Larsik,

Glad you enjoyed the G minor and D flat major preudes.

I understand what you mean by common with regards to the etude, and I do accept that.

Best,

Saul


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

This is one of my Orchestral Works. 
Its called :" Chanukah In G minor".

I have written this piece a few years ago, right before the Holiday of Chanukah. It took me about a month to complete it. This piece is very emotional and personal for me, because I was born on Chanukah and I feel connected to this Great Jewish Holiday, which happens to be my favorite Holiday.

Regards,

Saul


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## Bledjan Stufi

sorry saul, i hurt you, but i wanna say something more;
i think you r the new kind, named "poser" 
your music is garbage .


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Bledjan Stufi said:


> sorry saul, i hurt you, but i wanna say something more;
> i think you r the new kind, named "poser"
> your music is garbage .


First learn to spell, then talk to me.

I really can't understand what you're talking about.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my Mazurka In A minor.


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## MJTTOMB

Isn't a mazurka supposed to be a polish dance in triple meter with the emphasis on the third beat? Because if so, that's not really a mazurka.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

If you cant feel the dance in this piece, then you cant feel it. A mazurka is not determined by what meter it was written in, but by the essence of the music, the feeling.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my Mazurka In B flat major for Solo Piano.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

This is my Updated *List of Works * as of 2010.

Regards,

Saul

*A Poem In G major for Piano

A Prayer In D minor for Orchestra

Agitato In B minor for Piano

Ancient Dance In E minor No. 1

Ancient Dance In G minor No. 1

Ancient Dance In G minor No. 2

At the Ocean In E major for Flute, Harp & Violin

At the Ocean In E major for Two Pianos

At the Ocean In E major for Strings

At the Stream on a Bright Day

Baroque In B minor for Piano

Caprice In A minor for Piano

Chamber Piece In E major

Chanukah In G Minor for Orchestra

Etude in C major No. 1 for Piano

Etude In E major for Violin

Etude In E minor No. 1 for Piano

Etude In F sharp minor 'Wild River' for Piano

Evening Song In F sharp Major No.1

Evening Song In G minor

Fantasy In F sharp minor for Piano

Forest Song In G minor for Orchestra

Frodo's Song In F major for Piano

Fugue In G minor for Winds

Impressionistic Piece In D flat for Piano

Largo In B flat for Piano

Legend No. 1 for Piano

Legend No. 2 for Piano

Legend No. 3 for Piano

Love In the Forest for Piano

Love Story In G major for Orchestra

Lyrical Piece In F sharp Minor for Harp & Flute

Lyrical Piece In F sharp Minor for Piano

Mazurka In A minor for Piano

Mazurka In B flat Major No. 1 for Piano

Mazurka In E minor No. 1 for Piano

Melody for the Young In G major for Piano

Music Box for Piano

Nocturne In C sharp minor for Piano

Nocturne In E minor for Oboe and Harp

Nocturne In E minor No. 1 for Piano

Nocturne In E minor No. 2 for Piano

Ocean Reflections No. 1 in E major for Piano

Ocean Reflection In E flat major No. 2 for Piano

Orchestral Fantasy In D minor

Prelude In B flat major for Piano

Prelude In C major No. 1 for Piano

Prelude In C minor for Orchestra

Prelude In D flat major No. 1 for Piano

Prelude In E flat major No. 1 for Piano

Prelude In F major for Harp & Oboe No. 1

Prelude In F major for Harp & Flute No. 2

Prelude In F major No. 1 for Piano

Prelude In F major No. 2 for Piano

Prelude In F major No. 2 for Piano

Prelude In G major No. 1 for Piano

Prelude In G major No. 2 for Piano

Prelude In G minor No. 1 for Piano

Rivendellf In E major for Piano

Romance In E minor for Piano

Romance In G minor for Piano

Rondo In D major for Piano

Scherzo In A major No. 1 for Piano

Scherzo In B flat major No. 1 for Piano

Scherzo In C minor No. 1 for Piano

Scherzo In E major No. 1 for Piano

Song without Words In E minor No. 1 for Piano

Song Without Words In E minor No.2 for Piano

Song without Words In E minor Piano & Violin No. 1

Song Without Words In G minor No. 1 for Piano

Song Without Words In G major No. 1 for Piano

Song Without Words In B flat major No. 1 for Piano

String Quartet In B flat major No. 1

Symphony In F sharp minor No. 1 for Orchestra

The Chant of the Forest for Strings

The Painting in F sharp Major for Orchestra

The Night In E major for Orchestra

The Sea for Piano

The Shire In D major for Piano

The Train In C minor for Piano

The Western Sea for Piano

The Woods for Piano

Two part Invention In F

Work for Harp In C major No. 1

Work In B flat major for Piano*​


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## Rasa

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> If you cant feel the dance in this piece, then you cant feel it. A mazurka is not determined by what meter it was written in, but by the essence of the music, the feeling.


Hmm. Would you try your hand at a monothematic rondo for me?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> Hmm. Would you try your hand at a monothematic rondo for me?


.

Yes, but I will need to use a crazed individual like yourself as an example for the rondo.


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## MJTTOMB

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> .
> 
> Yes, but I will need to use a crazed individual like yourself as an example for the rondo.


If you make personal attacks against everyone who criticizes you, I highly doubt you're going to have much success as a musician.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

MJTTOMB said:


> If you make personal attacks against everyone who criticizes you, I highly doubt you're going to have much success as a musician.


Whatever this Chucky said was highly offensive and just plain wrong, I don't even know this person is and he or she thinks that they can just open their mouths and attack, and ridicule.

If there is any criticism to be directed it should be directed at those individuals who just make fun and personally attack for no good reason.

I highly doubt your sincerity seeing that you cant see who is the attacked and who is the attacker, or you're been purposely deceptive.

If you're here to make fun and attack, please don't post on my thread. But if you have good intentions and really want to state your opinions without any negative feelings, I'm more then happy to hear them, as I did for those who conveyed their information in good fate.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Chamber Piece In E major.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my 'The Sea' for Solo Piano.

Hope you all enjoy this.

Best Wishes,

Saul


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## Head_case

As a listener who can't stand the piano, 'The sea' is very listenable. It reminds me of cocktail party music, in the best sense of enjoying that kind of low key music. At times, it almost hints at a Scriabinesque kind of late romanticism, although more prone to lounge effect.

I haven't listened to all of your work in between 'the Train' and 'The Sea', but the solo piano pieces which you've written are likeable. I did listen to the string quartet efforts you'd written. I listen to string quartets mostly, and I'm sure I find your piano work easier to enjoy and listen to. 

Best of luck!


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Head_case said:


> As a listener who can't stand the piano, 'The sea' is very listenable. It reminds me of cocktail party music, in the best sense of enjoying that kind of low key music. At times, it almost hints at a Scriabinesque kind of late romanticism, although more prone to lounge effect.
> 
> I haven't listened to all of your work in between 'the Train' and 'The Sea', but the solo piano pieces which you've written are likeable. I did listen to the string quartet efforts you'd written. I listen to string quartets mostly, and I'm sure I find your piano work easier to enjoy and listen to.
> 
> Best of luck!


Thank you Headcase, glad you found this piece enjoyable, and thanks for your comments.
Yes its true what you said, I did intend this piece to be a relaxing piece of music.

Best Wishes,

Saul

Here's a piece I composed a half a year ago, its called 'Rinvendell' based on the famous mythical location from Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings', I'm performing this piece.

Cheers,


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Edit , working on a new arrangment of the same piece ' Now We Are Free'.

Regards,

Saul


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Ok,

Here is the definitive version of 'Now we Are free', originally written as a soundtrack for the film 'Gladiator' by Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard.

This is my own arrangement of the piece for Solo Piano.

Hope you enjoy it,

Regards,

Saul


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## Jean Christophe Paré

MJTTOMB said:


> If you make personal attacks against everyone who criticizes you, I highly doubt you're going to have much success as a musician.


That said, I doubt he's going to have much success as a musician unless he improves a lot.

And by the way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazurka Mazurka IS in triple meter with accent on the second or third beat.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jean Christophe Paré said:


> That said, I doubt he's going to have much success as a musician unless he improves a lot.
> 
> And by the way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazurka Mazurka IS in triple meter with accent on the second or third beat.


Ask my left toe if it cares about what you think?

I couldn't care less, yet another nobody who thinks he knows the future or stuff...

I have not demanded anything from anyone here, all I am doing here is sharing some of my compositions and arrangements and performances. I don't ask for criticism, though I appreciate comments made in good faith.

You want to throw at me the 'success' card, be my guest, but that tells more about you then me.

And by the way, if you have something to say I would be interested to hear your comments about my Arrangement of the Gladiator music.

That is if you are capable of giving an honest opinion.


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## Jean Christophe Paré

The arrangement of the Gladiator Music is okay. The thing is; it isn't a quarter as hard to arrange film music for piano than write a good song. I therefore prefer judging the quality of your work based on your originals.

Let me just say that you are reacting very immaturely to this whole thread. Criticism is to be expected when you post your work on a public forum. If you can't cope with it, you should probably not be posting in the first place.

Furthermore, some of the criticism may be harsh, but answering as rudely makes one no better.

As for my comment, you have to concur, least should you be disillusioned: It does not compare to the standard of classical music masters.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jean Christophe Paré said:


> The arrangement of the Gladiator Music is okay. The thing is; it isn't a quarter as hard to arrange film music for piano than write a good song. I therefore prefer judging the quality of your work based on your originals.
> 
> Let me just say that you are reacting very immaturely to this whole thread. Criticism is to be expected when you post your work on a public forum. If you can't cope with it, you should probably not be posting in the first place.
> 
> Furthermore, some of the criticism may be harsh, but answering as rudely makes one no better.
> 
> As for my comment, you have to concur, least should you be disillusioned: It does not compare to the standard of classical music masters.


Well thank you,

And as to the notion that I am a classical music master...

I dont recall ever calling myself 'A classical Music Master'.

And as to creating an arrangement, if you only knew the amount of work that is needed to translate a soundtrack into a Solo Piano work, especially this particular one, you wouldn't have said what you have said.

Cheers,

Saul


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## Jean Christophe Paré

I do have a good idea. Furthermore, I didn't say it wasn't a lot of work. I said it wasn't as hard as writing a good song, which I doubt you disagree with.

I don't recall ever saying you called yourself a classical music master. However, how can you have much success as a musician if you do not meet the standards of renowned artists, or at least come relatively close to them?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jean Christophe Paré said:


> I do have a good idea. Furthermore, I didn't say it wasn't a lot of work. I said it wasn't as hard as writing a good song, which I doubt you disagree with.
> 
> I don't recall ever saying you called yourself a classical music master. However, how can you have much success as a musician if you do not meet the standards of renowned artists, or at least come relatively close to them?


I write music in order to make people enjoy it, I know that not everyone will enjoy my music, but I know for a fact that many listeners and music lovers do.

So you can keep the 'Success'. I am very much settled with causing people to enjoy my work.

BTW, can you be more specific and detailed about my Gladiator Arrangement... what you think about it, your comments, and thoughts...


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

*The Battlefield*

Performing my Latest Composition at the Piano.

The Battlefield in D minor.

Regards,

Saul


----------



## ricardo_jvc6

Music is really good I enjoyed the Triplets and Staccatto chords. It goes Minor, Diminuto then Minor. Brilliant, also genius at the middle. The name is awkward to be called romance ,it should be called Prelude, and not Romance, Romantic music is very good you know but it isn't occluded with the song you made, its very open like enjoyable songs like the famous Romance from Liszt's or the Barcarolle from Tchaikovsky... as you can see the song occludes it self, its very closed and created good harmony, your music also has harmony (of course). You also forgot that romantic music uses Pedal very much and in your music you don't even use the Pedal. I hope this helps and I loved you're music.

Good Job!


----------



## Rasa

It was very boring. Here's a handy chart:










It would appear the first proposition of the first theme of Beethoven's first symphony has more developement than your latest piece.

The title is well chosen. There seems to be an ongoing battle with musical concepts such as thematic developement, counterpoint and harmony.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Nice doodling,

Its good to see that you have nothing better to do in your life except give poorly conceived and immature 'critic' on pieces you wouldn’t understand or be able to compose even if you lived for a thousand years.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> Music is really good I enjoyed the Triplets and Staccatto chords. It goes Minor, Diminuto then Minor. Brilliant, also genius at the middle. The name is awkward to be called romance ,it should be called Prelude, and not Romance, Romantic music is very good you know but it isn't occluded with the song you made, its very open like enjoyable songs like the famous Romance from Liszt's or the Barcarolle from Tchaikovsky... as you can see the song occludes it self, its very closed and created good harmony, your music also has harmony (of course). You also forgot that romantic music uses Pedal very much and in your music you don't even use the Pedal. I hope this helps and I loved you're music.
> 
> Good Job!


Thank you for your nice comments, I appreciate them very much.

About calling this a Romance.

Well, there are two main voices that sort of speak to each other in this work. A female and a male, its like a conversation, and its romantic, that's why I called it Romance, besides the point that the piece has a romantic spirit and feeling.

Cheers,

Saul


----------



## ricardo_jvc6

that last piano music reminds my first music that i used 32nd notes and 64th ones and the some clusters. I'll show you someday. Also brilliant Interpretion

Curiosity: out of curiosity, what composing program you use? I wish i could have that program you have. Piano there sounds much better than the program i compose


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thank you Ricardo,

Glad you enjoyed *The Battlefield*.

I use the Finale 2004 music software, without a keyboard. That means I don't put the notes in the score by playing a keyboard, but by manually putting each note with a computer mouse.

Thanks again for your comments,

Regards,

Saul


----------



## Rasa

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Nice doodling,
> 
> Its good to see that you have nothing better to do in your life except give poorly conceived and immature 'critic' on pieces you wouldn't understand or be able to compose even if you lived for a thousand years.


It appears that once again, objective criticism sends you into a fit of wild insults. Good one!


----------



## ricardo_jvc6

Rasa said:


> It appears that once again, objective criticism sends you into a fit of wild insults. Good one!


Bad insults can be deadly and easily turned into rage, i never liked bad critics like "your music is crap, make a better one" that kind of critic.. I never liked something like that, never did. It shouldn't be mentioned here. I don't evaluate the music by its hardness or clusters or whatever... I simple listen to the harmonic sound that's cause by bounced and prolonged notes all the way down. I can hear pure if its harmonic sound is soft or strong , conducted by the type. I hope this commentary was worth to understand that bad critics don't take or lead you anywhere.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> It appears that once again, objective criticism sends you into a fit of wild insults. Good one!


You really are that naive... you really believe that your little drivel was 'objective criticism'?



Any Joe in the street knows that all you meant to do was to insult and ridicule and contribute nothing positive to the discussion except mock, and make fun.

But when the coin flips and then you become the one that people laugh at, you get upset...

Well if you don't want to get upset, stop with your perpetual back warded agenda.


----------



## ricardo_jvc6

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> You really are that naive... you really believe that your little drivel was 'objective criticism'?
> 
> 
> 
> Any Joe in the street knows that all you meant to do was to insult and ridicule and contribute nothing positive to the discussion except mock, and make fun.
> 
> But when the coin flips and then you become the one that people laugh at, you get upset...
> 
> Well if you don't want to get upset, stop with your perpetual back warded agenda.


I definitely Agreed.


----------



## Yoshi

I find your last piece very interesting. When I hear it I can imagine it being played by an orchestra, it sounds like something I could hear on a film for some reason.


----------



## Rasa

I can objectively state that your last piece has no thematic developement.

This bores me.

That's criticism.


----------



## Sanctus Petrus

Apart from some flaws in harmonical, melodical, rythmical and structural development, these are some nice minutes of sound.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> I can objectively state that your last piece has no thematic developement.
> 
> This bores me.
> 
> That's criticism.


That I can accept, had you said it from the outset without the crayon business, all would have gone smoothly. We can be friends if you want, just keep it clean and all will be fine.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jan said:


> I find your last piece very interesting. When I hear it I can imagine it being played by an orchestra, it sounds like something I could hear on a film for some reason.


You really nailed that one, I too feel the same way, that it can be some kind of a film music, a soundtrack.

Thanks for your comments and glad you took the time to listen.

Cheers,

Saul


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Sanctus Petrus said:


> Apart from some flaws in harmonical, melodical, rythmical and structural development, these are some nice minutes of sound.


Well flawless or not, I'm really pleased that you found the piece enjoyable.

Best Wishes,

Saul


----------



## Rasa

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> That I can accept, had you said it from the outset without the crayon business, all would have gone smoothly. We can be friends if you want, just keep it clean and all will be fine.


You call it crayon business, I call it analytical indications... tomatoes tomahtoes

And had you cared to read my post



Rasa said:


> It was very boring. Here's a handy chart:
> 
> It would appear the first proposition of the first theme of Beethoven's first symphony has more developement than your latest piece.


I wouldn't have to repeat myself.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> You call it crayon business, I call it analytical indications... tomatoes tomahtoes
> 
> And had you cared to read my post
> 
> I wouldn't have to repeat myself.


No its not "analytical indications" its been an ***.

Which you are.


----------



## Sid James

Actually, lack of thematic development is a thing I picked up on earlier as well, so I have to say I tend to agree with Rasa on this one...


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Andre said:


> Actually, lack of thematic development is a thing I picked up on earlier as well, so I have to say I tend to agree with Rasa on this one...


You guys have heard about 'manners'.

Apparently not.

There is a decent way of saying something, and then there is a dirty offensive way of saying it.

Until you will learn to speak with manners, I will send all your remarks to my left toe.


----------



## Rasa

I think you're taking some things the wrong way because you don't understand them....


----------



## Sid James

I don't remember being offensive to you. I think you are a tad too sensitive to constructive criticism. But that's you're problem, if you are too much like that, it will be difficult for you to learn and develop as a composer and musician. I never said that you lacked talent or ability. They would be silly judgements to make without knowing more about you...


----------



## Jean Christophe Paré

While Rasa might be a little harsh - as some others too - the lack of thematic development is still there.

They may be wrong to be harsh, but then you would also be wrong to completely ignore their points and critics because they are harsh. That would be a sophism.


----------



## Sid James

Yes, and there are many more harsher critics out there in the "real world" than on this website. I'm talking about the "experts." When you're a composer, and want your works to be performed in public and recorded, you have to address these criticisms in a thoughtful and careful way. For example, Schumann heavily criticised Chopin's 2nd piano sonata for lacking cohesion. As a result, Chopin's next sonata (the 3rd) probably has more cohesion. This is just an example how one master learnt from another. There's no doubting that both men knew their stuff very well, to a deep level. It's just a case of one learning from the constructive criticism of another...


----------



## Jean Christophe Paré

I think the Schumann vs. Chopin example might be pushing it, though. Getting criticism from a forum isn't the same as getting criticism from a "great" composer.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

'Constructive Criticism' ?

You must be kidding.

You are the type of person who looks for holes, and I bet you would have found many holes in Beethoven's work too, and many other composers. Wagner wrote a whole book about Jews and Music, he wanted to destroy Mendelssohn, you know?

Many composers back then hated each other, read what Liszt had to say about Chopin.

'Develop as a composer' ...'grow as a composer' ' grow as a musician'...

Who in the world had ask you or anyone else for assistance, and what makes you think that you are qualified?

Are you a certified music professor?

Even a music Professor knows to sit quietly when his opinions and remarks are not wanted.

I had said in the outset, I'm not interested in 'Criticism', whatever it may be.
But I would only listen to qualified individuals who know what they are talking about, and who are able to convey their opinions in a dignified manner.

Not only Rasa is not qualified to give criticism, He does it with a measure of lunacy , trying to be comical, read the crayon nonsense he posted.

But you and some others here are hell bend to force your opinions and comments even though they are not wanted.

You sound like a Christian Missionary who is trying to 'save' people who are not interested in Christianity. If someone tells you that he is not interested in hearing criticism, then just accept and respect his demand, its called been respectful, but if you want to push your comments and opinions nevertheless by force, that's been offensive and disrespectful.


You think that it’s a classical music website and since a composer is posting his music its your right to post your opinions no matter what.

But aside from the formality of laws and regulations and rights, there is a thing called Human Interaction.

When a composer tells you that he is not interested in your ‘criticism’ , you should respect his request, for after all its his music.


----------



## Rasa

You know the point of lunacy has been surpassed when you're called unqualified by the inventor of the 4/4 Mazurka



> When a composer tells you that he is not interested in your 'criticism' , you should respect his request, for after all its his music.


Said composer is very insecure about their music. Your demand to receive only praise, and react to negative criticism in the way you do is highly irrational.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Insecure composers don’t compose music, and they also don’t post it on the internet or sell their music on Itunes.

I had my good share of experience of the various self proclaimed 'geniuses' of criticism, and I must admit that their comments were more of a nuisance then benefit.

Heard of the saying :” No one had made a statue for a Critic”.


----------



## Rasa

Florence Foster Jenkins wasn't insecure either, you're in good company...


Why do you post your bad work here? Your website pages are full of pieces that are LENGHTS ahead in quality.

Intro page piece: melody, harmony, a clear and discernible structure, an effort at orchestration. Surely you can realise how this latest pieces is terrible in comparison to that one?


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> Florence Foster Jenkins wasn't insecure either, you're in good company...
> 
> Why do you post your bad work here? Your website pages are full of pieces that are LENGHTS ahead in quality....


Keep on adding rubbish to your rumble of blabber , I'm done responding to you.


----------



## Rasa

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Insecure composers don't compose music, and they also don't post it on the internet or sell their music on Itunes.


Bruckner was notoriously insecure. And he sure didn't have the internet.


----------



## Jean Christophe Paré

If they are so wrong in their criticism, then feel free to prove them wrong. However, answering that they are wrong because they are harsh or mean doesn't make sense.

You are reacting the way they want you to.


----------



## Sanctus Petrus

Not being a heavy Beethoven fanatic, I must admit that the example you qoute of his early symphony, proves a very creative, thoughtfull use of rythmic and melodic material, in a way that brings coherence, logic and unity into his music.


----------



## MJTTOMB

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Insecure composers don't compose music, and they also don't post it on the internet or sell their music on Itunes.
> 
> I had my good share of experience of the various self proclaimed 'geniuses' of criticism, and I must admit that their comments were more of a nuisance then benefit.
> 
> Heard of the saying :" No one had made a statue for a Critic".


Of course, that's a statement made by Jean Sibelius.

But, they also don't make statues for mediocre composers.

At any rate, Sanctus Petrus deserves at least a trophy, if not his own statue for that last post.

Edit: appartently it was Rasa. Either way everyone just deserves trophies.


----------



## Jean Christophe Paré

MJTTOMB said:


> Of course, that's a statement made by Jean Sibelius.
> 
> But, they also don't make statues for mediocre composers.
> 
> At any rate, Sanctus Petrus deserves at least a trophy, if not his own statue for that last post.


Psssst, the drawing was Rasa's.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

MJTTOMB said:


> Of course, that's a statement made by Jean Sibelius.
> 
> But, they also don't make statues for mediocre composers.
> 
> At any rate, Sanctus Petrus deserves at least a trophy, if not his own statue for that last post.


The Last thing I need is a statue.

Personally, I cant stand critics, they are arrogant fools who believe that the world somehow needs their input on things.

Anyone here who still doesn't want to stop with their 'criticism' even after hearing that the composer is not interested is guilty of raping this thread, as simple as that.


----------



## Rasa

Posting your work is opening it for criticism.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> Posting your work is opening it for criticism.


On what constitution or bill of rights or charter did you dig that one up?

Or perhaps this is one of your personal invented things.

*Music Critics are Stupid and Pointless *

"*Music critics are second only to DJs in terms of being deluded and pretentious about their worthless occupation. Whenever I want to be consumed with misery and loathing, I just surf over to Pitchfork or pick up a copy of the latest Magnet, and peruse all the ink wasted by talentless fools who have been given a forum into which they can inject their unqualified and asinine opinions.

You know that old saying that goes, "Those who can't do, teach"? It should actually read, "Those who can't do, write long-winded and self-indulgent criticism of a topic on which they have no education, from an undeserved perspective of superiority and righteousness".

If most music critics were as enlightened as their writing implies, they would have to be living with unicorns and elven fairies on some Shangri-La-esque plane of existence where their every thought is worshipped in song because it is a bright golden light of pure magical beauty. But no, the reality is most critcs are bitter, jaded ******** with a drug problem and a father complex, sitting in some crappy studio apartment cluttered with old T. Rex vinyl and empty Starbucks cups.

An excerpt from an actual Pitchfork review, chosen at random:

"Back when he was Five, Ben Folds made punk rock for wussies. With a goofy drawl and sloppy piano (SFW, natch), Folds alternately threw stones and built glass houses. He'd mock a too-cool coterie of nose-ringed goths and closeted ex-Cure fans (ah, those innocent pre-Killers 1990s!), then let his guard down for ballads about heartbreak and, yes, the abortion that hurtled the Five through fame's window like a post-Final Four student rioter's "Brick". His hipster-baiting, sincerity and modest fame guaranteed a few nasty reviews, sure. Still, Folds challenged cred-consciousness before crying "rockist!" was OTM. Wussy, yes, but worthy."

I'll give $5 to the first person who can tell me what this idiot is talking about. Other than amusing himself with his hilarious little snark puns and masturbatory inside jokes, this entire paragraph tells me nothing about the music of Ben Folds, and whether or not I might like it. This is 100 words of wasted time. What the **** is OTM? Is the editor allowing this person to just make up abbreviated phrases?

The problem is 99.9% of rock and classical music criticism is in service of neither the music, nor the fans who might want to listen to it. It's just a string of buzzwords, obscure references and less-than-subtle name/place-dropping that the writer thinks will give themselves credibility and/or makes them look cool. And the sad thing is, whether or not they choose to admit it, people buy this crap, thereby allowing any rock critic with an ego and a thesaurus to dictate their culture to them.

The people who buy the rock critic ******** are easy to identify. They're the same people who are mortally afraid of your finding out about a cool new band before they do*. The same people who say things like, "Yeah, that Killers show was pretty good, but you should have seen them back when they played (insert "tiny, totally-intimate and awesome" club here). The same people who think listening to music is some kind of fierce competition. In other words, jackasses.

Music, like most things that are completely subjective, doesn't really need criticism. Everybody is going to hear something different. Why can't magazines just publish lists of music they reccomend, and music they don't? Leave it up to the reader to go find out why. Listening to some punk babble on for four-hundred words about "angular guitars" and "neo-folk-pschadelic- hardcore-disco-dance-glam-punk" that is derivative of "early-era-Cars" doesn't really mean much to me and isn't going to have much of an influence on whether or not I'm going to check out the record. Ratings are fine, its the pointless sharing of pompous opinion that I find unnecessary.

Unless it's mine, of course.*"


----------



## Rasa

Really, every post you make just proves that you can't take some criticism because. Probably because you aren't so secure about yourself in the first place.

You're reactions are very childish.



> On what constitution or bill of rights or charter did you dig that one up?


I don't really need one, but the first amendment might do.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> Really, every post you make just proves that you can't take some criticism because. Probably because you aren't so secure about yourself in the first place.
> 
> You're reactions are very childish.
> 
> I don't really need one, but the first amendment might do.


I'm glad you liked the article.


----------



## MJTTOMB

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> I'm glad you liked the article.


The article operates on the assumption that no critics know what they are talking about. Almost every "critic" you have in this thread knows music theory and composition and has practiced the art themselves. We're not laypeople telling you your works are bad, we're musicians telling you that you need to tame your massive ego and realize that you're really not the greatest thing since _Le Sacre du Printemps_.


----------



## LarsikComposer

There`s one thing I really don`t understand. Why do you post your music in this forum if you don`t want criticism?


----------



## Aramis

Don't know why are you people even trying to discuss with him. It's clear that he's not worth of it - not even material for serious artist and if he doesn't want to learn there is nothing to fight about, no reason to force any lessons and facts into his head against his will. 

I see little sense in convicing him that his music is poor. His narcissism is harmless, like I said, it doesn't prevent any greater art from coming from him, it doesn't block any considerable creative power. 

So why bother yourself and him with such unnecessary stuff?


----------



## Yoshi

LarsikComposer said:


> There`s one thing I really don`t understand. Why do you post your music in this forum if you don`t want criticism?


So... the only porpuse of sharing any sort of art is to be criticized?


----------



## LarsikComposer

Jan said:


> So... the only porpuse of sharing any sort of art is to be criticized?


Did I say that?

I was asking him a question and I think there must be a reason why he keep posting his work


----------



## Yoshi

LarsikComposer said:


> Did I say that?
> 
> I was asking him a question and I think there must be a reason why he keep posting his work


Well I think it's obvious by now that he doesn't want any criticism...
I guess I agree with Aramis, this argument seems pointless to me.


----------



## Rasa

Jan said:


> Well I think it's obvious by now that he doesn't want any criticism...


He wants people to laud him.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

LarsikComposer said:


> There`s one thing I really don`t understand. Why do you post your music in this forum if you don`t want criticism?


I don't compose my music so that it would be evaluated , compared, studied or examined.
That's not my purpose, therefore I don't care for all the 'critics'.

Secondly, even the greats, for example Mendelssohn couldn't escape from the strong grip of the critics. Those idiots didn't come to Mendelssohn's toes, yet they felt that they could open their mouths and say things like :" His music is too salon-like" and "Sentimental".

While no one remembers those idiots who made those idiotic comments, Mendelssohn today is considered to be one of the Greatest and most beloved composers of all time.

Now if there is something essentially wrong with sharing music with people without asking them for criticism or praise, cause I don't remember asking either one, then I don't see things as you do.

I believe a person should be able to post his music on an internet page just to share his creative work with others, no strings attached.

But some musicians just like the case here on this site, don't like this arrangement, and they seek to squeeze in their 'take on things', it then becomes a thread more about them, then about the music.

Yes, I know all of you are big geniuses who know music, and theory, and everything else that has to do with music, very nice, and I applaud you for this.

But please, respect the fact that I don't want to hear any criticism on my music, I'm just not interested.

You can say:"Hey Saul, I don't like your music, it bores me..." that is an honest opinion, its not even criticism, and I accept and respect your opinion.

I can also accept: "Hey Saul , I really like your music and I enjoyed it". I welcome this complement too.

But straight out criticism of my work , bores me, and doesn't interest me at all, therefore it would be proper to just accept this, and stop forcing your criticism.

Cheers,

Saul


----------



## LarsikComposer

Okey, I respect your opinion Saul


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

LarsikComposer said:


> Okey, I respect your opinion Saul


Thank you Larsik, I'm glad that you understood my position.

Regards,

Saul


----------



## Sanctus Petrus

A little quote from the title of this subforum:



> For composers. Get help, *critics*, and participate our composition-projects. Are you a composer?


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Sanctus Petrus said:


> A little quote from the title of this subforum:


Huh the straggling musician, the only professional that is offered help by the kind and caring audience...:lol:

Today's composer = A total nobody until proven otherwise.

Are you a composer?

Well get this down your throat, a well cooked up and sized up peppered critic!


----------



## Rasa




----------



## Sanctus Petrus

Rasa said:


>


@ Rasa

At the end of your graph you still end up at 13%
Do you really think this figures up for the following quote:


Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Huh the straggling musician, the only professional that is offered help by the kind and caring audience...:lol:
> 
> Today's composer = A total nobody until proven otherwise.
> 
> Are you a composer?
> 
> Well get this down your throat, a well cooked up and sized up peppered critic!


----------



## ricardo_jvc6

Thats one big graphic there with some High values ... what does that graphic.. mean of anything on this thread? whats the purpose of that graphic?


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

This thread is getting more visually interesting as time goes by...


----------



## Jean Christophe Paré

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> Thats one big graphic there with some High values ... what does that graphic.. mean of anything on this thread? whats the purpose of that graphic?


The graphic exposes the comprehensibility of Saul's posts in function of his post count in the thread. The initial purpose is to point at his incoherence/incomprehensibility as of now.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> Thats one big graphic there with some High values ... what does that graphic.. mean of anything on this thread? whats the purpose of that graphic?


Its some people's way to show the world how much they like having free time and wasting it on pointless things.

As Einstein had famously said *:"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality". *


----------



## Rasa

And the graph just keeps plumetting.


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Rasa said:


> And the graph just keeps plumetting.


I guess it will meet you in the gutter...


----------



## Romantic Geek

MJTTOMB said:


> The article operates on the assumption that no critics know what they are talking about. Almost every "critic" you have in this thread knows music theory and composition and has practiced the art themselves. We're not laypeople telling you your works are bad, we're musicians telling you that you need to tame your massive ego and realize that you're really not the greatest thing since _Le Sacre du Printemps_.


Actually...to be fair, I think music critics do lack a certain knowledge at times. A Brahms critic wrote detailed criticisms of all of his pianoforte works. I happened to pick up this book to find research on a paper I was writing for my Performance and Analysis seminar, looking for their perception of the piece as a whole. When I got to the piece I was doing (Rhapsody in G Minor Op. 79, No. 2) he said the form of the piece was "lyric."

I think anyone who has any background with form (or basically anyone who's listened to enough classical music) would know that the piece resembles _a_ form. At it's least, it's ternary. At it's most descriptive, it's sonata form. I argue sonata form in my paper, but there are reasons why one may consider otherwise.

Also, in response to about the mazurka, I always personally learned that the stress was on beat two, which was usually heavily ornamented and usually the beat of the three that was elongated. But even with that, the stress on Saul's is mostly on beat one, which makes it still more like a waltz than a mazurka, even though the melodic line definitely has some Hungarian influences.

But then again, who cares what people name pieces now and these days. Modern composers write "sonatas" and they don't resemble anything like the forms or preconceptions of sonatas from the 18th/19th century other than they usually are a fast-slow-fast movement piece. So who are we to criticize the name of the piece?


----------



## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Romantic Geek said:


> Actually...to be fair, I think music critics do lack a certain knowledge at times. A Brahms critic wrote detailed criticisms of all of his pianoforte works. I happened to pick up this book to find research on a paper I was writing for my Performance and Analysis seminar, looking for their perception of the piece as a whole. When I got to the piece I was doing (Rhapsody in G Minor Op. 79, No. 2) he said the form of the piece was "lyric."
> 
> I think anyone who has any background with form (or basically anyone who's listened to enough classical music) would know that the piece resembles _a_ form. At it's least, it's ternary. At it's most descriptive, it's sonata form. I argue sonata form in my paper, but there are reasons why one may consider otherwise.
> 
> Also, in response to about the mazurka, I always personally learned that the stress was on beat two, which was usually heavily ornamented and usually the beat of the three that was elongated. But even with that, the stress on Saul's is mostly on beat one, which makes it still more like a waltz than a mazurka, even though the melodic line definitely has some Hungarian influences.
> 
> But then again, who cares what people name pieces now and these days. Modern composers write "sonatas" and they don't resemble anything like the forms or preconceptions of sonatas from the 18th/19th century other than they usually are a fast-slow-fast movement piece. So who are we to criticize the name of the piece?


Really well put.

Thanks.


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## Rasa

Sonata might refer more to the connotation of sounding rather then the form.


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## Jean Christophe Paré

"Sonata" is a more ambiguous term because it refers to slightly different forms depending on the musical era and can also be simply opposed to Cantata, and therefore would be correct for any instrumental music.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Jean Christophe Paré said:


> "Sonata" is a more ambiguous term because it refers to slightly different forms depending on the musical era and can also be simply opposed to Cantata, and therefore would be correct for any instrumental music.


Play around with everything and anything, and in the end you'll get something else.

:lol:


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## Romantic Geek

Rasa said:


> Sonata might refer more to the connotation of sounding rather then the form.


Personally, the sonata form is what makes the sonata so special (and the symphony too!)


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## gurthbruins

I have only heard your first offering, your Romance.

It is tremendous, you are a tremendous composer.
The standard of criticism of your work is abysmal.

I like the way you seem to have remained entirely uncontaminated by that abomination called modern music.

There is ample material in you work to justify it running for 6 minutes or whatever it took. And there is not a single valid negative criticism of the work.

The criticism started off well with a comparison of you to Bach, Mozart and Chopin. I was also reminded of the sonatas of Beethoven.

But then the egos of the critics started taking a self-inflicted beating. The standard of criticism plummeted and became the expression of the envious mob mentality.

It's no good responding to negative criticism which always seems to emanate from inferior minds.
You want appreciation, and you deserve it. You don't want advice or adverse criticism, because there is not likely to be anyone who can offer anything of use to you. *My* advice is, just ignore it.

I am grateful to you for offering the fruits of your genius for nothing to a public mostly unappreciative. What a curse for a man like you to be born in an age like this.


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## mueske

gurthbruins said:


> I am grateful to you for offering the fruits of your genius for nothing to a public mostly unappreciative. What a curse for a man like you to be born in an age like this.


I agree. It's a real curse being born in an age where the music you're writing, has already been written.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Hello everyone, I really missed you guys.

I checked today in my email and I received notifications from the site, and when I logged in, I saw that my ban was lifted.

All I have to say is that I'm glad to be back, and I hope that things will be better from now on, and that I would be able to share my music with everyone here.

I will not justify myself with the things that took place before, I took full responsibility and I don’t blame anyone for anything. I hope that we can put the past behind us, and concentrate on a new beginning through music.

Best Regards to all.

Saul


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## Aksel

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Hello everyone, I really missed you guys.
> 
> I checked today in my email and I received notifications from the site, and when I logged in, I saw that my ban was lifted.
> 
> All I have to say is that I'm glad to be back, and I hope that things will be better from now on, and that I would be able to share my music with everyone here.
> 
> I will not justify myself with the things that took place before, I took full responsibility and I don't blame anyone for anything. I hope that we can put the past behind us, and concentrate on a new beginning through music.
> 
> Best Regards to all.
> 
> Saul


Hi Saul! Great that you're back!


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## emiellucifuge

Hi Saul, good to have you back


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thank you Aksel and Emie, glad to be here...

Here Im performing one of my recent works for solo piano, its called 'Historical In A minor'.


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## Chris

Welcome back Saul, we were just talking about you :tiphat:


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thanks Chris.


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## Yoshi

Welcome back Saul.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thanks Jan.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my 'Story No. 2 In E minor Andantino' for solo Piano.


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## ricardo_jvc6

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Performing my 'Story No. 2 In E minor Andantino' for solo Piano.


It was Interesting, I believe this is " Romantism style". This was Beautiful. Really Beautiful.


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## Chris

It flows very nicely, and I like the subdued ending.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Thank you both Richardo and Chris, yes Richardo, this piece is written in the Romantic spirit.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Performing my 'Story No. 1 In E major' for Solo Piano.


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## Igneous01

I very much enjoyed story, to me it has a reminiscence of schubert (but not as complicated) with an extremely well structured and coherent design. I suppose my tastes would suggest more expansion on the piece itself to present more novel and new ideas. But thats just me. Nice motifs and themes, and good pacing - i like it.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Igneous01 said:


> I very much enjoyed story, to me it has a reminiscence of schubert (but not as complicated) with an extremely well structured and coherent design. I suppose my tastes would suggest more expansion on the piece itself to present more novel and new ideas. But thats just me. Nice motifs and themes, and good pacing - i like it.


I'm really glad that you enjoyed the piece, you're probably right that it can be continued with some new ideas, and therefore become even better then what it is now, but its a slow work of five minutes, and I thought that it had its needed relative context for what it is.

Here's one of my latest works, its called 'At the Meadows' in G major.

Regards,

Saul


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

The Western Sea


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## Sanctus Petrus

'At the Meadows' in G major.
This is a revolutionary composing method!
You took an existing tune (in this case the étude No. 3 in E op. 10 from Chopin) and barred the superfluous notes from it.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Sanctus Petrus said:


> 'At the Meadows' in G major.
> This is a revolutionary composing method!
> You took an existing tune (in this case the étude No. 3 in E op. 10 from Chopin) and barred the superfluous notes from it.


My work 'In the Meadows' sounds nothing like that etude. I wish I knew how you came to your conclusion.


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## Chris

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> My work 'In the Meadows' sounds nothing like that etude. I wish I knew how you came to your conclusion.


Listening to the first few bars of At The Meadows, then playing the Chopin, It's hard to deny the similarity


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Chris said:


> Listening to the first few bars of At The Meadows, then playing the Chopin, It's hard to deny the similarity


I'm sitting here and I cant believe how you see the similarity.

For me there is non, though thanks for the complement.
The music is completely different, from beginning to end.

But if you feel the similarity, that's your right.

Cheers,


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Keyless Impro


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Performing my 'Story No. 1 In E major' for Solo Piano.


I thought the piece was rather boring and lacklustre.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I thought the piece was rather boring and lacklustre.


Interesting observation.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Here's one of my latest works, its called 'At the Meadows' in G major.


I think this piece is rather mediocre in that it lacks originality and reminds of commercial music heard on television. Thanks for posting your works nonetheless. I looking forward to sampling them.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> I think this piece is rather mediocre in that it lacks originality and reminds of commercial music heard on television. Thanks for posting your works nonetheless. I looking forward to sampling them.


You can say your opinion, that's why I post these works... speak your mind whatever it may be.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> ... my recent works for solo piano, its called 'Historical In A minor'.


Similar effort, it sounded to me as with the other two pieces I commented about above. Some simple tunes to begin with but lacked development to sustain any real interest from my listening senses, and reminded me of commerical music.


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## mueske

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Keyless Impro


Didn't you hate this kind of music?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

mueske said:


> Didn't you hate this kind of music?


This is just musing around, I wont call it serious work...its just an impro, checking out different tonalities, basically its a study more then anything.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Similar effort, it sounded to me as with the other two pieces I commented about above. Some simple tunes to begin with but lacked development to sustain any real interest from my listening senses, and reminded me of commerical music.


I guess you're listening to lots of commerical music, you know been reminded of it so often...


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

The Two Lovers in A minor.


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> I guess you're listening to lots of commerical music, you know been reminded of it so often...


Not really. My memory/retention is quite good. Drivel pieces or great works, I seem to recall them quite well.



Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> The Two Lovers in A minor.


I didn't find it terribly uplifting, I'm afraid. Sorry. Thank you for posting nonetheless, we look forward to more.


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## MJTTOMB

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> This is just musing around, I wont call it serious work...its just an impro, checking out different tonalities, basically its a study more then anything.


it's nothing extraordinary, but i liked it. i'm really glad to see you're branching out. i feel like you could accomplish a lot if you took the modern idiom more seriously and put more effort into writing your more abstract works.


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## Igneous01

yes i agree with mjttomb, whether it be a study or experimental work, i think you should expand upon these things and ideas so you can develop your own sound and ideas. As for all your previous works, while they may seem unimaginative, i appreciate there structure and clarity the most. One great talent i think you have is your structure towards music as its very defined and organized. Im not suggesting you should become some crazy composer who just forgoes everything, but theres nothing wrong with bending rules to suit your needs as a composer. after all, your expressing something of your own imagination, whether it may seem abstract to you or not at first, should not be thrown away. after all, there is only on saul who can compose something like this, whether people like it or not.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Igneous01 said:


> yes i agree with mjttomb, whether it be a study or experimental work, i think you should expand upon these things and ideas so you can develop your own sound and ideas. As for all your previous works, while they may seem unimaginative, i appreciate there structure and clarity the most. One great talent i think you have is your structure towards music as its very defined and organized. Im not suggesting you should become some crazy composer who just forgoes everything, but theres nothing wrong with bending rules to suit your needs as a composer. after all, your expressing something of your own imagination, whether it may seem abstract to you or not at first, should not be thrown away. after all, there is only on saul who can compose something like this, whether people like it or not.


Although I appreciate your general comments, the one specific comment regarding expanding upon those modern Ideas, I cant agree on.

This study-piece is really nothing serious, I can create thousands of these pointless up and down pieces, but true art is above all this.

True art needs order, structure and thought. I'm not suggesting that there is no art in improvisation, of course there is, but in order for it to have some value, the piece has to have a purpose by a solid and thoughtful beginning, and then development and then ending. If a piece doesn't have all of these qualities, then its not more then musing and experimenting in sound, but not a defined work of art.

Yes, My structure and orderly defined classical compositions, are not groundbreaking, and perhaps wont attract as many people as I would like, but that's fine. I accept it and understand it, but I wont fool myself into believing that a musing piece is a serious work. In fact I consider all these abstract/Showenbergain/Webernian Atonal music as banal lacking an artistic point. It may be fun to the ear, or interesting or imaginative and spontaneous, but its not a serious work, and when it comes to music I'm not pragmatic, but I'm idealistic, that means I don't cater to popular demand, I just compose what I feel strongly and passionately about, and if as a result I would get less exposure and popularity, then that's ok.

Best Regards,

Saul


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## Polednice

So are you saying that your keyless improvisation was deliberately bad music?


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Polednice said:


> So are you saying that your keyless improvisation was deliberately bad music?


Its just not a work of art, its musing.
There's tendency to associate art to this kind of music by the reinforcement of the academia and popular thought, but that is just a great bluff as I mentioned in the other thread.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Keyless Impro No. 2.


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## Sanctus Petrus

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Keyless Impro


Right now I'm listening this piece while downstairs my piano gets tuned. Together with the aleatoric element of tuning, the music is really getting a twist in the positive sense.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Haha......


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

Keyless Impro No. 3


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## chillowack

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> The Two Lovers in A minor.


I like this tune a lot, but I would prefer the right hand to be more complex than just single notes, i.e. the occasional dyad or chord would be a clear improvement. Especially as the piece goes on, the single notes become monotonous, even with the octave variations.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

chillowack said:


> I like this tune a lot, but I would prefer the right hand to be more complex than just single notes, i.e. the occasional dyad or chord would be a clear improvement. Especially as the piece goes on, the single notes become monotonous, even with the octave variations.


Thank you and a very worthy suggestion, but I didn't want to overshadow the two voices, with one of them played too strongly, its a conversation between a man and a woman, two lovers, and I want to keep the right balance.

Best,

Saul


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Keyless Impro No. 3


Thanks for sharing. I listened to it carefully twice over. The piece was mildly interesting at first, but it did not really capture my genuine sense of interest in it; in short, the piece was rather boring.


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## Saul_Dzorelashvili

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Thanks for sharing. I listened to it carefully twice over. The piece was mildly interesting at first, but it did not really capture my genuine sense of interest in it; in short, the piece was rather boring.


I cant wait what you'll say on my next musical offering...


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Keyless Impro No. 2.


Thanks for sharing another piece, member Saul_D. Like many of the pieces, I find the beginning mildly interesting but as it meanders towards its conclusion, I simply find the piece lacklustre, lacking any development to arouse the listener.


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## Sanctus Petrus

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Keyless Impro No. 3


Nice intro for 45''.
Why do you continue with scale studies afterwards?
At +/- 65'', when the cat jumps back and forth over your piano, I had to stop listening becaus pizza was ready.


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## ricardo_jvc6

Sanctus Petrus said:


> Nice intro for 45''.
> Why do you continue with scale studies afterwards?
> At +/- 65'', when the cat jumps back and forth over your piano, I had to stop listening becaus pizza was ready.


I Guess he could start with Arpeggio Études which are the most complicated, I am looking foward to him to create a kind of Liszt Étude because Liszt Études and Chopins are divine.
Good luck foward to him.


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## Guest

Can I assume that the "Banned" under his name is now permanent?

Pity - I know he was inflammatory, but at least he did it without the anonymity in which the rest of us cloak ourselves. I think he got baited a lot - I know that is no excuse for how he would respond, per se, but I think many on here would egg him on, knowing how he would respond. I speak as one who has also had some serious disagreements with him.

Oh well.


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## Rasa

Saul got permanently banned? However will I make it through the day without his keyless impros?


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## Krummhorn

DrMike said:


> Can I assume that the "Banned" under his name is now permanent?





Rasa said:


> Saul got permanently banned?


Yes, to both queries 



Rasa said:


> However will I make it through the day without his keyless impros?


I know it will be tough ... but somehow, we will persevere .


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## wingracer

Saul_Dzorelashvili said:


> Thank you very much.
> 
> Here I'm performing my Etude
> 
> It is a modern work, not what you'll call 'very classical'...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Saul


Just started checking out this thread and I must say, I really like this piece. Very interesting and surprisingly enjoyable.


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## wingracer

As for the rest, I fear I must agree with many of the others. Quite promising beginnings but lacking any serious development. Also, as a bass guitarists, I want to hear more action in the left hand on some of them. A good bass line can make an otherwise lackluster piece into something brilliant. 

Too bad he got banned. If he can put his ego aside for a moment and work hard to develop his work more, he just might do something great.


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## gurthbruins

Saul banned again?

Pathetic.

It's not Saul who has ego problems, it's all the non-entities who resent his superiority.
Balzac said something to the point about the reaction of society to the man that is its superior.

I do not doubt that Saul will find a world more congenial to the level of his talent. And that he will be better off there.


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## emiellucifuge

It is Saul who cannot accept that he is occasionally wrong, not the rest of us.

You may think he is talented, I do not.


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## ricardo_jvc6

emiellucifuge said:


> It is Saul who cannot accept that he is occasionally wrong, not the rest of us.
> 
> You may think he is talented, I do not.


Talent is hard to achieve. Not everyone is Talented, I don't get cocky saying " Hey I am a Better Composer than emilfucige or Rasa or also Matt.." Well Thats the thing I don't like to Tolorate. And I think thats what got saul banned forever. Life is Eternity, Talent is not. Musical Talent is not a cheap caught.. It takes YEARS!!


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## HarpsichordConcerto

Juste Retour said:


> Saul is a great composer. I am amazed.
> 
> Better than a great composer. A banned composer. Like Mahler and Schulhof and Schoenberg. Is he jewish?


Hello Saul_D. Is that you under that new name? I presume so.


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