# Hello everyone!... and learning counterpoint :O



## Humidor

Hello there everyone! How are you all doing on the fine Tuesday evening. After reading for a respectable while I finally cracked and made my own account. I feel more sophisticated already I kid I kid. Anywhoo since none of you actually know me I'll cut my introduction short and get right to it. 

Counterpoint. *Deep breath*
So I've just begun learning this sucker and so far I'd say it's all going relatively okay, however I must confess I feel it could be going much faster. I have a copy of The Study of Counterpoint from one Mr. Fux (proud to say it was TC recommendation) and I have also discovered an online first species counterpoint exercise thingymagobber. (see link below) My question to all of you is what would you say is the most effective way to get to learnin dis bitch? My main issue with the book is that I have no way of knowing wether or not my counterpoint is not only correct, but good or bad. It makes a good understanding hard to achieve After many laborious searches I still haven't been able to find a decent composition and or theory teacher within my reasonable area, and on a side note university is also currently off of the table as I blew the last of my bankroll on a fly 93 integra. Thug life.

Any advice or even response would be greatly appreciated. The sooner I can get to learning in the best way possible the sooner I can get to posting my series of 35 classical symphonies Looking forward to hearing back from y'all. Thanks for your time.

P.S. *Update* 36 classical symphonies.


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## Kopachris

Does it sound good? Then it is good. Don't worry so much about your counterpoint being "correct." If you'd like, though, you can post your exercises in the "Today's Composers" board and we'd be happy to judge them for you. 

Also, welcome to TC!


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## emiellucifuge

I think it *is *important to get your counterpoint correct at first, and there is unfortunately no better or proper way than to get a teacher.


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## Ramako

Hello and welcome! 

If I may cut to your points on counterpoint. Fux's tome has been recognised as the greatest book on Counterpoint even by those who disagreed with him (Schenker) and I would advertise has of all books has the most distinguished set of pupils (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven). Haydn had no teacher and taught himself almost entirely from this book and a couple of others. It is also the basis for almost all such book since. It must therefore have something to it, right?



Humidor said:


> Counterpoint. *Deep breath*
> So I've just begun learning this sucker and so far I'd say it's all going relatively okay, however I must confess I feel it could be going much faster.


I think taking the first steps are the hardest and you have already begun to overcome that. The 2-part exercises are less interesting - sustain yourself by thinking of the more interesting exercises which are yet to come, ultimately with the Study of Fugue after you have finished this book ! A couple of months ago I finished the 4-part counterpoint exercises and am currently doing 3-part Fugues in the sequel "The Study of Fugue". It took me about a year to do the whole Study of Counterpoint, and I don't think you shouldn't try to do it in much less - near the end Fux recommends taking a year or two to study his exercises (he also says don't compose during this time which I would certainly not recommend ) which I would take seriously. Mozart and others recommended the same.



Humidor said:


> My main issue with the book is that I have no way of knowing wether or not my counterpoint is not only correct, but good or bad.


Haydn used the following procedure for marking. He did the exercises and then left them for a couple of weeks before going back to them and marking them himself. I have followed his example, and (he probably did too) I have used the piano, playing the exercises to hear them, in marking. I also played the exercises immediately after having written them, as some mistakes came out as obvious when I played. Really this method does work, you will find avoiding parallel 5ths second nature before long. I would recommend studying the example exercises for a little before starting your own, trying to look for significant points in them, and playing these on the piano as well. This gives you a standard. If you do not play input them into a computer so that you can hear them as this is important.

I tried to start a thread to discuss the topic of exercises: http://www.talkclassical.com/20493-composing-exercises.html. You may find it interesting.



Humidor said:


> After many laborious searches I still haven't been able to find a decent composition and or theory teacher within my reasonable area, and on a side note university is also currently off of the table as I blew the last of my bankroll on a fly 93 integra. Thug life.


Well, I actually more or less actively avoided having a teacher up to this stage *ducks head to avoid nukes fired at him*. However I am going to university now, as I feel I can now withstand the influence I feared, so that somewhat undoes my point... Still, there are even famous composers who I have done without teachers. Haydn taught himself (mainly from Fux ), and other composers had less than official instruction in the art. It is possible to achieve much - but what is important to study the subject and put much effort into it.

Since you are a composer, allow me to advertise our informal TC composers competition. Here is the discussion, and all the entries are posted in this http://www.talkclassical.com/21189-talkclassical-composers-competition-round.html thread. Feel free to judge as well . If interested in competing pm me or apply to join our group.


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## Humidor

Wow thank you all for the amazing responses particularly you Ramako  So far it goes like I said pretty ok.. For the most part I don't make any mistakes. My main problem just seems to be how long they take me, but all things in time! Like I said thank you all very much. I feel at home and welcome already  

As far as the composing contest goes Ramako I'd definitely love to do it at some point. I may hold back till I have a little bit of a better foundation in modulation counterpoint and form though, just for the sake of doing my ideas justice and fleshing them out a tad more professionally. Either way however, I most definitely look forward to it Thanks again!


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## Ukko

I have absolutely nothing to say about composing or counterpoint. It's your username that interests me; how come?


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## Humidor

I wouldn't dream to disappoint your question with a boring answer (like there's one on my desk acting as a jewelry box.. no homo) so I'll make something up... My apologies in advance. 

The humidor is a metaphorical representation of the inner workings on my developmental process. You see, I absorb the knowledge and wisdom of the world in much the same way a humidor does water. After my initial exposure I allow the elixirs of theory to instill within the deepest corners my mind their value, strengthen the foundation if you will. After one full moon, once the consciousness has settled, my mental chasms release the fumes of thought, which envelop and enrich all the contents of my now more enlightened mind. And thus, we arrive at the metaphorical manifestation. Humidor.


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## Ukko

Well, OK. It's your name, and now it's your problem. (The jewelry box thing would be way easier to live down.)


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## Humidor

Lol like I said, my apologies My sense of humor is definitely acquired taste.. Assuming it's something that you can ever really stomach :lol: Pleasure to meet you


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## Kopachris

Hilltroll72 said:


> I have absolutely nothing to say about composing or counterpoint. It's your username that interests me; how come?





Humidor said:


> I wouldn't dream to disappoint your question with a boring answer (like there's one on my desk acting as a jewelry box.. no homo) so I'll make something up... My apologies in advance.
> 
> The humidor is a metaphorical representation of the inner workings on my developmental process. You see, I absorb the knowledge and wisdom of the world in much the same way a humidor does water. After my initial exposure I allow the elixirs of theory to instill within the deepest corners my mind their value, strengthen the foundation if you will. After one full moon, once the consciousness has settled, my mental chasms release the fumes of thought, which envelop and enrich all the contents of my now more enlightened mind. And thus, we arrive at the metaphorical manifestation. Humidor.





Hilltroll72 said:


> Well, OK. It's your name, and now it's your problem. (The jewelry box thing would be way easier to live down.)





Humidor said:


> Lol like I said, my apologies My sense of humor is definitely acquired taste.. Assuming it's something that you can ever really stomach :lol: Pleasure to meet you


I think you're going to fit in here quite nicely.


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## clavichorder

emiellucifuge said:


> I think it *is *important to get your counterpoint correct at first, and there is unfortunately no better or proper way than to get a teacher.


I learned that stuff on my own, all it takes is some honing of the ear. That was my preference.

Welcome to the forum!


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## Humidor

clavichorder said:


> I learned that stuff on my own, all it takes is some honing of the ear.


Indeed. Things continue to become clearer What seems to be working well for me is consulting several (trustworthy) sources. I'm finding that multiple explanations of the same concept help me grasp it more completely and in a quicker fashion Today I'll try giving it a more practical approach by writing a counterpoint at the keyboard and then write it down on paper. I think going back and fourth from theoretical to practical could be very useful, but I'll let you guys know how it turns out Who knew learning could be so much fun


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## Lunasong

Humidor said:


> The humidor is a metaphorical representation of the inner workings on my developmental process. You see, I absorb the knowledge and wisdom of the world in much the same way a humidor does water. After my initial exposure I allow the elixirs of theory to instill within the deepest corners my mind their value, strengthen the foundation if you will. After one full moon, once the consciousness has settled, my mental chasms release the fumes of thought, which envelop and enrich all the contents of my now more enlightened mind. And thus, we arrive at the metaphorical manifestation. Humidor.


wow.

and welcome.


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## Humidor

Lunasong said:


> wow.
> 
> and welcome.


Lol just checking to make sure every knows I was completely joking.....


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## clavichorder

Well, once again, welcome to the forum. Nice sense of humor.Tehehehehehehehehe


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