# Composing.



## Altair

Greetings.

I just registered on this forum in hope of gaining more knowledge about composing. 

I play the piano once in a while, but it's nothing special. I have an interest in holy minimalism, composers like Arvo Pärt (Da Pacem Domine and De Profundis Psalm 130 especially) and Henryk Gorécki (I love the 3rd symphony) are my favorites. 

Now I dont have plans on educating myself as a composer, however I've always liked playing around the piano and studying sound, chords, etc. It could be wonderful to learn something about composing classical music, so I my question is 'where do I start'? 

Thanks.


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## David58117

Once you understand what the circle of fifths represents, *learn it by heart.* Learn the music forms and practice identifying what is what within them. If you're just starting, having a teacher or someone more advanced will definitely help and clear things up.

There are plenty of good theory books you could work through.


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## Aramis

David58117 said:


> *learn it by heart.*


It sounds nice but has no meaning and does not apply in practice. Just like you can't learn to play instrument by heart, you also can't learn to compose this way.


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## David58117

Aramis said:


> It sounds nice but has no meaning and does not apply in practice. Just like you can't learn to play instrument by heart, you also can't learn to compose this way.


Being able to tell right away what key you're in, what the function of the chord you're dealing with is, what possible modulations would be, what the quality of the chord you're looking at is, etc are all important, and knowing the circle of fifths is how you get there.

Also, being able to communicate with other musicians is important. So yes - learn the circle of fifths frontwards and backwards!


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## Rasa

Altair said:


> *Now I dont have plans on educating myself* as a composer, however I've always liked playing around the piano and studying sound, chords, etc. It could be wonderful to learn something about composing classical music, so I my question is 'where do I start'?
> 
> Thanks.


Don't bother at all.

Best way to acquire a classical style is to study simple pieces of the Viennese school: Haydn, Mozart, (Beethoven less so) and Schubert.

Take one of their minuets and analyse each chord, how it is inversed etc. Study the way the chords follow eachother. Study how the notes of the chords relate to eachother (stay the same, move in each voice) Study how the cadences are approached. Study how motifs relate to eachother. Study the structure of the piece.


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## MJTTOMB

Rasa said:


> Don't bother at all.


I'd second that. Tinkering around won't get you anywhere in the world of art music.


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## Weston

MJTTOMB said:


> I'd second that. Tinkering around won't get you anywhere in the world of art music.


No one said anything about getting anywhere. I tinker around, enjoy it, and it's good for the brain. There are zero calories and no one dies. Should those of us who don't want to devote our lives to it simply become mindless consumers and watch TV all time? I don't think so.

I would also hold up Charles Ives as an example of a tinkerer.


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## Romantic Geek

Weston said:


> No one said anything about getting anywhere. I tinker around, enjoy it, and it's good for the brain. There are zero calories and no one dies. Should those of us who don't want to devote our lives to it simply become mindless consumers and watch TV all time? I don't think so.
> 
> I would also hold up Charles Ives as an example of a tinkerer.


Charles Ives was a trained learned musician. Yes, a tinkerer, but he still had an extremely good grasp on fundamental tonal counterpoint and harmony. He could have been like any other composer in the Second New England School. Check out "In Summer Fields/Feldeinsamkeit." You'll know what I mean.

While I somewhat agree with the tinkering around, the more you know about counterpoint and harmony, the more you can use it, or knowingly disregard it, in your compositions. My compositions have gotten only stronger as I learned more about the inner workings of music.


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## Weston

Certainly I'm not advocating a lack of learning. The more one learns in any endeavor the better. I think I have been exposed to too much automatic discouragement in the arts academia, both in the fields of music and the visual arts. Some of the forum replies seemed to be heading in that direction. I probably over react to this. When I got out into the real world of the arts (illustration) for instance, I found it wasn't nearly as discouraging as college professors would have you believe. I'm on a mission to stamp out this method of weeding out people who might otherwise have gone on to produce some great works for us to enjoy.

Sure - don't quit your day job. But don't give up either.


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## AmateurComposer

Altair said:


> Now I dont have plans on educating myself as a composer, however I've always liked playing around the piano and studying sound, chords, etc. It could be wonderful to learn something about composing classical music, so I my question is 'where do I start'?


Are there any melodies playing in your head? If none, don't bother. But if a melody keeps running again and again in your head, does not let go and does not leave you alone, then your initial problem is to acquire the skill to write it down. Once you achieve that, then some of the other suggestions provided above apply.

It won't be easy, but do not give up.


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## KaerbEmEvig

Aramis said:


> It sounds nice but has no meaning and does not apply in practice. Just like you can't learn to play instrument by heart, you also can't learn to compose this way.


"To learn by heart" = "uczyć się na pamięć", nie "uczyć się sercem."


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## Jeremy Marchant

Altair said:


> Now I dont have plans on educating myself as a composer, ... It could be wonderful to learn something about composing classical music, so I my question is 'where do I start'?


You seem to be like the person who wants to drive a car with their hands tied behind their back.
Learn something (preferably quite a lot) about music.
Don't copy other composers otherwise you'll sound like a bad copy of them.
Unless you're composing solely for your own pleasure (and why not), respect your audience - if you're asking them to give up their time, don't pass off indulgent tinkering as music.


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## Altair

Thanks for all the advices.

I'm familiar with the chords and their advancements, the circle of fifths and the basic functions. So I guess I just have to borrow some theory books to learn even more about it. 

I thinks it's a good idea to study the works of other componists too, not to copy, but to be aware of the way a piece is composed and how to analyse it.


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