# Help me give my talk on Franz Schubert



## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

In April it's my turn to give a talk on a topic of my choice to a 'Gentlemen's Lunch and Discussion Club' of which I'm a member. The topics are generally, literarary, philosophical, historical, scientific etc. It seems to fall to me to represent classical music, and my previous audio-augmented talk on Wagner went down well. Time for another musical topic and I've chosen Franz Schubert as my topic.

I'm planning about 5 musical excerpts that would inform and please my learned but not highly musical audience.

It's hard to get past my favourites i.e. String Quintet, Trout, 9th Symphony, Piano Sonata D960, but they might not best represent his total work. I clearly need to add something vocal.

What would you play? And what would you say about Schubert?


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese (Jan 8, 2013)

sorry i'm not much help with this, think you've got it under control..............


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Don Fatale said:


> In April it's my turn to give a talk on a topic of my choice to a 'Gentlemen's Lunch and Discussion Club' of which I'm a member. The topics are generally, literarary, philosophical, historical, scientific etc. It seems to fall to me to represent classical music, and my previous audio-augmented talk on Wagner went down well. Time for another musical topic and I've chosen Franz Schubert as my topic.
> 
> I'm planning about 5 musical excerpts that would inform and please my learned but not highly musical audience.
> 
> ...


Do not forget to mention the piano Wanderer Fantasy Op.15
this was a great influence in the future of the Sonatas development (specially Liszt's b minor)

And do not forget about the Lieder, Schubert was a fantastic "melodist". (I hope the word is right in English)
this is the Zichy transcription for piano (left hand alone) of the famous "Der Erlkönig"





"Trout" and 9th Symphony sounds very nice too
Anyway the 8th (unfinished) symphony is also a quite interesting story to tell (there is a very nice piano transcription by Gino Tagliapietra).
A lot of people also may easily recognize his Military March. (Tausig version is quite nice)

Good luck and hunting!

All the best
Artur


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

If you want something vocal, I'd play Ave Maria. I'm not really into Schubert's songs but this one I can't deny its beauty. 

Also, I would try to String Quartet No. 15 - one of Schubert's best works.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Don Fatale said:


> I clearly need to add something vocal.


Maybe your audience isn't aware that Schubert wrote one of the most famous songs ever? Ave Maria.


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## Scott in PA (Aug 13, 2016)

Yes, you should clearly add some of the songs, since I think that's what Schubert is most known for.

How about one of the Goethe songs: Erlkoenig, Ganymed, Gretchen am Spinnrade (there are many others).

Or one of my favorites: Der Hirt auf dem Felsen, with clarinet obligato that shows his chamber music skills.


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

I assume time is a consideration, so you probably need to limit yourself to one of each important genre. 

Erlkoenig is the go-to lied for the uninitiated because not least there are four completely differentiated voices (and everyone knows the piano opening)
.
Piano: The innocent (but far from naive) lyricism of the opening movement of the "little" A major sonata, or the wonderful voicing of the finale of the G major. (or excerpts of the Wanderer Fantasie, passim.)

For comic relief, the little tootling scherzo of the Octet.

Chamber: The formal perfection of the Quartettsatz.

Orchestral: Hard to reduce the great C-major symphony to excerpts, but I'll leave it to you. 

Same with the C-major Quintet, but that best exemplifies the "late" style/pathos.

Liitle excerpt to show an oddity: The last page of the B-flat sonata, where he modulates into the home key by successively stepping down half a tone at a time without officially "modulating."

Interesting quote: Don't know if it's written down anywhere, but John Harbison (composer) has said something to the effect of the most productive 18 months for masterpieces in the history of music, began with Beethoven's death in 1827 and lasted until Schubert died a year and a half later (and he wasn't including Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique).

Good luck.


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## jenspen (Apr 25, 2015)

Don Fatale said:


> In April it's my turn to give a talk on a topic of my choice to a 'Gentlemen's Lunch and Discussion Club' of which I'm a member. The topics are generally, literarary, philosophical, historical, scientific etc. It seems to fall to me to represent classical music, and my previous audio-augmented talk on Wagner went down well. Time for another musical topic and I've chosen Franz Schubert as my topic.
> 
> I'm planning about 5 musical excerpts that would inform and please my learned but not highly musical audience.
> 
> ...


I think your choices are perfect - three of them show the mighty Franz at his most characteristically lyrical (and his mightiest). The only one I perhaps would change would be The Trout Quintet (nah, I couldn't pass up a chance to ask them first if they had a Samsung washer/dryer). 





And I strongly second the "Erlkönig" suggestions - it never fails to be a hit and it's Goethe (he knew words. He had the *best* words). You could read the poem to them first and then let the always reliable Fischer-Dieskau take the stage?

You could quote one or two of the numerous things H. L. Mencken had to say about Schubert. One I like is:

"Of Schubert I hesitate to speak.... His merest belch was a lovely as the song of the sirens. He sweated beauty...."

It should be fun!


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

Scott in PA said:


> Yes, you should clearly add some of the songs, since I think that's what Schubert is most known for.
> 
> How about one of the Goethe songs: Erlkoenig, Ganymed, Gretchen am Spinnrade (there are many others).
> 
> Or one of my favorites: Der Hirt auf dem Felsen, with clarinet obligato that shows his chamber music skills.


Notting more to add :tiphat:


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Back home now and in my office/music room for a day of coding, and I'll be playing Schubert throughout.


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

_Erlkönig_ is an opera in miniature, all the more remarkable for its having been composed when Schubert was barely 18 years old.


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## jdec (Mar 23, 2013)

Erlkönig would be an excellent choice for the novice audience. Goethe and Schubert together, 5 characters (narrator, the father, the ill son, the elf king, and the horse ride portrayed by the incessant piano triplets).

Look at this nice animation of this wonderful lied (you can turn on the English captions if you wish):


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## Reichstag aus LICHT (Oct 25, 2010)

jdec said:


> and the horse ride portrayed by the incessant piano triplets


... which possibly also serve the double purpose of depicting the thumping hearts of son and father, on occasion. You certainly get your money's worth with _Erlkönig_!


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

I'd go with Gretchen. When the spinning wheel increases in speed as the singer gets more agitated, it can be pretty powerful.
Another thought would be to pair the Trout Song with the 4th movement of the Trout Quintet


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## Bruckner Anton (Mar 10, 2016)

I would suggest setting a theme for your talk, e.g. Schubert and lyricism. Then you can choose works from different genres to illustrate how songs influence his approach of composing in smaller and larger works. Gretchen is a good example of his songs and probably his first mature composition.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Triplets said:


> I'd go with Gretchen. When the spinning wheel increases in speed as the singer gets more agitated, it can be pretty powerful.
> Another thought would be to pair the Trout Song with the 4th movement of the Trout Quintet


That's actually two I've gone for. It was hard to know what to choose from the Trout, but the 4th mvt won.

Barbara Bonney in the Gretchen am Spinnrade is perfect. I love the balance of the piano and voice and the recording quality.






I'd like to mention the Schubertiaden at the time. Does anyone know how frequent and widespread they were? I can fully imagine how people would have love playing and hearing their favourite poets e.g. Goethe and Schiller, set to music.

Would it be fair to say some early symphonies could be mistaken for Mozart's, i.e. up to and including the 5th, whereas the 8th feels quite far from Mozart?

Is there anything in one of the masses I could play?


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

The German mass "Deutsch Messe" is very profound and a great work


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## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

Apart from the music, you could also point out that your group, meeting for a discussion, is in effect doing the modern equivalent of a "Schubertiad," in which Schubert and his friends got together to play music and discuss things.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes, you must do at least one song. I will add yet another recommendation for Erlkönig! Can't go wrong with that.


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## Tchaikov6 (Mar 30, 2016)

Anything from Winterreise.


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

EdwardBarast said:


> Yes, you must do at least one song. I will add yet another recommendation for Erlkönig! Can't go wrong with that.


That's a tough one, particularly as I'm leaning towards _An Die Musik_ sung by Kathleen Ferrier, the text being an intro to my talk. I'll keep Erlkonig in reserve.

So here's the likely playlist with each introduced by a few paragraphs of mine.

An die Musik
_Sung by Kathleen Ferrier, which will resonate with my British audience of a certain age._

Symphony No. 5, 1st movement
_Schubert in the classical tradition after Mozart_

Gretchen am Spinnrade 
_representing his songs, the link to Goethe is useful_

Trout Quintet, 4th movement 
_Composed because a Hummel piece with the same instruments was being played at a musical evening, so Schubert decided to write something for the same setup. It's a great anecdote._

Death and the Maiden string quartet, 1st movement
_It wasn't well received at the time, with the suggestion given that he should stick to songs_

Piano Sonata D959, 2nd Movement
_Kind of personal for me. The beauty of the theme goes into a section which verges on discordance and anger, as if at his own imminent demise?_

Symphony No. 9 Scherzo
_Like so many of his works, Schubert never heard them in concert performance, although he was present at a rehearsal of this one._

In reserve:
Erlkonig
String Quintet, Adagio
Symphony No. 8
Piano Sonata D960, 1st movement


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## cimirro (Sep 6, 2016)

Very good selection!
When is the great day? (by the way, Good luck!)


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

cimirro said:


> Very good selection!
> When is the great day? (by the way, Good luck!)


Thanks. Thursday, 13th April.

Our dining/debating group usually covers politics, classics, philosophy and literature. Most members are retired academics, surgeons/doctors, lawyers etc. I'm none of these, simply a high-school dropout website owner and auto-didact, and can hold my own in any debate. My Wagner talk a couple of years ago was well received and I've been encouraged to do another classical music talk.


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## mathisdermaler (Mar 29, 2017)

Show some lieder. Winterreise - hurdy gurdy or good night


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

I gave my talk and it went very well according to subsequent feedback.

Introducing each piece with an anecdote set the right mood, and the music did the rest. Playing the selections in a particular order served to give Schubert's history along the way. I'm familiar enough with the subject matter that I didn't script anything, and along the way was able to discuss the structure of a symphony, sonata form and cyclical form, plus the difference between the classical and romantic eras.

I'd originally planned to just use a laptop and small speakers, but as I had everything needed on LP, I brought along my 35-40 year old mid-fi technics deck, NAD amp and Monitor Audio speakers. Apart from a couple of jumps it all sounded very nice, and the gents of a certain age appreciated it.

Now I have to decide what to do next year. Not necessarily music, but as I seem to be the resident expert they seem to want me to do something musical. I'm thinking about equal temperament and Bach. I'll be sure to let you guys know. It was nice to get some helpful feedback and encouragement. Thanks very much.


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## Dongiovanni (Jul 30, 2012)

Bach and equal temprament would be a great topic for you, as I know you are a maths and numbers orientend person. Also, from a mathematical perspective, Bach is a good choice. He is known for being obsessed with numbers ! There are so many books written about this. Also an interesting topic is that in German his name spelled are all musical notes, b being b flat and the h being b natural. Finally, in the famous Bach protrait where he holds a piece of sheetmusic, there is a very complex riddle embedded into the music. So, lots of stuff to discuss !


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