# Bach Symphonic Transcriptions



## Aggelos

Hello guys and gals!
This is a thread where we can discuss the abundant library of J.S. Bach orchestral transcriptions by various composers and conductors. And of course we can discuss about recordings.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/L-Orchestra.htm

Usually Leopold Stokowski's name pops up in this case, because he has the most Bach orchestrations by any other. He has 36 orchestrations for J.S. Bach works, plus 3 for Band.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/stokowski/transcriptions/transcriptions.htm

Actually 2 discs that I enjoyed very much, are the following.
Impeccable recordings! The engineers have triumphed!
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9835
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHSA 5030
I really love the digital recordings for Bach orchestral transcriptions.

Too bad this CD is unavailable at amazon...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/jan01/Bach_Transcriptions.htm


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## Aggelos

A very intersting article on orchestral transcriptions by Henry Fogel
http://www.artsjournal.com/ontherecord/2009/08/whither_the_transcription.html



> An absolutely delightful compact disc that was issued recently made me wonder whatever happened to the transcription. The disc (Naxos 8.572050) is José Serebrier's second CD with the Bournemouth Symphony of Bach transcriptions, and half of it consists of transcriptions by Leopold Stokowski of music by other composers: Palestrina, Byrd, Boccherini, Haydn, Jeremiah Clarke, and Johann Mattheson.
> *
> Why have we become such purists? What went wrong in our musical world that it is practically forbidden (I'm not sure by whom, but believe me, it is nonetheless forbidden) to perform Bach transcriptions--not to mention a Pavane and Gigue by William Byrd--in a concert hall today.*
> 
> *Listening to this recording caused me to realize what the purists have inflicted on the rest of us. First of all, organ recitals are rare things. In fact, even good organs are rare things. The transcription offers us a way of hearing great organ music that we might not ever encounter in a live performance. But the transcription is more than that. It is an alternative version, decked out in different colors.* (Some of Stokowski's transcriptions of music other than Bach's are not of organ or even keyboard music.) Just as a play or movie derived from a book is a perfectly valid other way of experiencing the book, so a transcription is a perfectly valid way, in and of itself, of experiencing music that is based on an original that sounds different.
> 
> Listening to different transcriptions--there are wonderful Bach transcriptions by John Barbirolli, Ottorino Respighi, Lucien Caillet, Edward Elgar, Walter Damrosch, Dmitri Mitropoulos, and many others--is not meant to be a substitute or replacement for the original. But it should be a valid, alternative artistic experience, and that was the case back in the first half of the twentieth century. A look at concert programs from the 1930s and 40s, and even into the 1950s, shows a reasonably regular appearance of a range of transcriptions.
> 
> Then, from the 1960s on, it drops precipitously, clearly a result of the purist movement that seemed to say we can only perform music in the way it was written--an aesthetic that would be shocking to Bach, Vivaldi, Handel, Mozart, and others. I hope we lose this puritanical streak soon, and can once again bathe ourselves in the bold colors of a good transcription. Until then, our gratitude to José Serebrier for producing two wonderful CDs.


He means this CD

















http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2009/Apr09/Stokowski_Bach_8572050.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/nov06/Stokowski_Bach_8557883.htm


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## StlukesguildOhio

At a time in which the large, Romantic orchestra reigned supreme, it was almost a necessity that Bach's work be transcribed if it was to be heard or showcased in such venues. Let's face it, Mozart and Haydn were commonly performed by an orchestra as grandiose as that demanded of Mahler. With the historically informed movement symphonic presentations of early works of music began to follow more accurately the composer's original intent. As a consequence, there seems to have been less expectation that Bach (or Mozart or Haydn, etc...) needed to conform to the format of the large symphonic orchestra.

Don't get me wrong... I quite like Stokowski's transcriptions. I also love Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's _Pictures at an Exhibition_ as well as some of those grandiose versions of Mozart and others. But I want the originals as well. I want Bach's cantata's (which are often quite sensitive in their scoring), his organ music, his cello suites, etc... as written first and foremost. I'll admit to a preference for piano over the harpsichord for the performance of his keyboard works (although I love Ralph Kirkpatrick's performance of The Well Tempered Clavier on clavichord as well as the performance of The Art of the Fugue on recorders by the Amsterdam Loeki Stardust Quartet). I'll also admit to a preference for Beethoven's _"Emperor" Concerto_ played on a grand piano with the big orchestra over the "authentic" performances I have heard on piano-forte... which works for Mozart... but not Beethoven.


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## Aggelos

I would say Bach Metamorphoses is pure sickness....

I've acquired recently these 2 discs. I am listening to them constantly. I wish there were more CDs with J.S Symphonic transcriptions (just like in 1930s, 40s and 50s we had numerous concerts and recordings), because the whole concept/practice is pure sickness........

The J.S. Bach Symphonic Metamorphoses is what drives me crazy. In general I try to collect (rare) orchestrations, but Bach orchestral transcriptions is the real deal. And Bach piano transcriptions as well! *I have stopped listening to Bach's original works. I only listen to transcriptions (piano and orchestral). I dote on them!* To be candour I need the 20th Century Bach, I need his music in the modern symphony orchestra guise.










http://www.atmaclassique.com/En/Albums/AlbumInfo.aspx?AlbumID=352


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## Mirror Image

Aggelos said:


> I would say Bach Metamorphoses is pure sickness....


I disagree. You should listen to some other music for change.


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## Aggelos

Mirror Image said:


> I disagree. You should listen to some other music for change.


Yes I listen to others as well. But I don't have money (to buy the CDs), and I dont have time.
Therefore I need to listen to my favourite things:
- J.S. Bach orchestral transcriptions
- Orchestrations & orchestral transcriptions
- J.S. Bach piano transcriptions
- piano transcriptions in general (such as Johann Strauss transcriptions, virtuoso transcriptions from Liszt & his pupils, rare transcriptions, etc)

Bach symphonic metamorphoses is an indescribable sickness! It an unprecedented practice primarly of the 20th century! It's a boon!

Also Luciano Berio's orchestration for Contrapunctus XIX was teh sickness. It reminded me Anton Webern's orchestration for Ricercata.
http://www.deccaclassics.com/newsandnewreleases/june2005/4762830.html


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## Mirror Image

Aggelos said:


> Yes I listen to others as well.


Really? Like who? Name at least 20 composers who you've explored in-depth.


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## Aggelos

Mirror Image said:


> Really? Like who? Name at least 20 composers who you've explored in-depth.


I can't stop listening to this CD. It's full of gems. I cannot waste my time to listen to other uninteresting compositions by "others". I am cumming with J.S. Bach piano/orchestral transcriptions!

Theodore Szanto is an impeccable transcriber. 
Additionally Dame Myra Hess, Wilhelm Kempff, Cyprien Katsaris, Mario Feninger & Alexander Siloti deliver exquisite transcriptions.









http://cyprienkatsaris.com/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&cPath=3&products_id=7


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## Aggelos

I'd like to inform you, that for the 1st time in the history of BBC Proms there will be a concert/event devoted solely to Bach orchestral transcriptions. Pretty nifty!!

*Browse the BBC Proms 2010 by composer*

*Prom 39: Bach Orchestral Transcriptions (Saturday 14 August 2010)*
* J. S. Bach, orch. Stokowski Toccata and Fugue in D minor, BWV 565 (10 mins)
* J. S. Bach, orch. Henry Wood 'Suite No. 6' - Prelude; Finale (6 mins)
* Tarik O'Regan Latent Manifest (c5 mins)
(BBC commission: world premiere)

* Walton The Wise Virgins - suite (21 mins)
* Grainger Blithe Bells (4 mins)
* J. S. Bach, arr. Sargent Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068 - Air (6 mins)
* Alissa Firsova Bach Allegro (c5 mins)
(BBC commission: world premiere)

* J. S. Bach, arr. Bantock Chorale Prelude 'Wachet auf, ruft uns due Stimme', BWV 645 (5 mins)
* J. S. Bach, arr. Respighi Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor, BWV 582 (13 mins)
*
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Andrew Litton conductor
http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2010/whatson/1408.shtml#prom39*


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## Aggelos

http://www.emiclassics.com/releasetracklisting.php?rid=30140

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http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/single?PRODUCT_NR=4776118

_The Bach-Cailliet : Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578 is da sweetness! 
Rocks da jail-house!_

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Cailliet-Lucien.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Cailliet.htm

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http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/Aug04/Bach_conductors.htm

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 10081

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 10282

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http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2000/aug00/bachtranscription.htm
http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9835

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## Aggelos

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/May10/Bach_Ormandy_PASC211.htm

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http://www.atmaclassique.com/En/Albums/AlbumInfo.aspx?AlbumID=352

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http://www.lyrita.co.uk/cgi-bin/lyrita_build.pl?filename=SRCD0216.txt
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11282

What a magnificent CD!! 

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http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN 9259


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## Aggelos

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=7741
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/1967









http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/The-Fantastic-Stokowski/

*Bach orchestral transcriptions FTW!*


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## Aggelos

Bach's Passacaglia and fugue in c minor BWV582 orchestrated by Ottorino Respighi and conducted by Andrew Litton on 14th august 2010 at the Royal Albert Hall.


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## david johnson

aggelos is happily doomed to bach big band!! 
i like it, too.
jsb's ghost probably digs it in the extreme.

dj


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## Aggelos

david johnson said:


> aggelos is happily doomed to bach big band!!
> i like it, too.
> jsb's ghost probably digs it in the extreme.
> 
> dj


Well I am not the only one - the Bach OT event was sold-out -.

Actually it all begun due to the love of the (big) orchestral sound.
As a pianist-student I started liking the numerous Bach PTs. Actually after I had researched the field, it turned out that there are thousands of them
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVD/PT.htm

Aftewards I discovered that there are several Bach OTs by Leopold Stokowski (the Toccata & Fugue, the Passacaglia & Fugue, the Chaccone). Owing to the love of the big orchestral sound, I said to myself "why not give them a try? Orchestrations can be very amuzing afterall....". And Stokowski's orchestrations turned out addictive and orgasmic. Not only those for Bach works, but for other composers as well. Stokowski was not the first to have orchestrated Bach, but he was centainly the most prolific. 
http://www.mola-inc.org/Stokowskicatalog.htm

Thereafter I discovered that others as well (conductors & composers) have orchestrated Bach.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/L-Orchestra.htm
So it ended up being something very wicked, badass and cool!

PT = piano transcription
OT = orchestral transcription


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## Aggelos

Go! Go! Go!

Bach-Stokowski





Bach-Wood





Bach-Grainger





Bach-Sargent





Bach-Firsova





Bach-Bantock





Bach-Walton









Bach-Wood : Toccata & Fugue


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## Aggelos

And this is extremely impeccable!









http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Mar06/Sato_SME1001.htm


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## Aggelos

Bach / Hideo Saito : Chaconne 





Conducted by Seiji Ozawa


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## Webernite

I don't much care for Schoenberg's Bach transcriptions. (Webern's Ricercar a 6 is more interesting because it actually says something about Bach's motivic development. But even so, listening to other orchestral transcriptions of the same work reminds us that much of the beauty credited to Webern ought really to be credited to Bach.) Schoenberg's Brahms transcription - like his transcription of Handel - is wonderful but only if it is not taken too seriously.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd take this over Stokowski any day - and I think it's a shame that his transcriptions have so tarnished his reputation as a serious conductor.


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## Aggelos

Well on the whole, the Bach OTs are not meant to be taken seriously. Except for the Webern orchestration which is relatively praised/acclaimed, the others are more like forbidden indulgences. 
Something that the *Bach purists* will always find distasteful, pointless, insulting, offensive and vulgar. I guess they are little bit arrant fanatics. 
I'm sure Bach would forgive them for their narrow-mindedness and stuffiness.


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## gprengel

Hi Aggelos,
like you I am also a huge fan of orchestral Bach transcriptions. For me the greatests transcription is Stokowski's from the Chaconne - for me one of the greatest achievements I ever have heard in my life:






Of the Chaconne there is also another wonderful transcription, but not quiete as ingenious as the one from Stokowski:






I myself have orchestrated some parts of the Welltempered Clavier and of the Art of Fugue which you may like, too:

http://www.talkclassical.com/41332-bachs-welltempered-clavier-ii.html?highlight=

Gerd


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## Bulldog

I think this is the first time I've read this thread, and it saddens me that some folks are less impressed with 'original Bach' than the various transcriptions. To me, it's like taking a beautiful face and then degrading it with botox treatments.


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## Woodduck

Bulldog said:


> I think this is the first time I've read this thread, and it saddens me that some folks are less impressed with 'original Bach' than the various transcriptions. To me, it's like taking a beautiful face and then degrading it with botox treatments.


...except that Bach's original face is still there for you to look at any time you want to.

It's my first look at this thread too, and Aggelos has given me some good laughs. I don't know where he is now, but if he's moved on to another life I hope Stokowski will be there to autograph his Bach transcription CDs.


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## brotagonist

I enjoy both originals and transcriptions. I really need to hear the Bach Symphonic Transcriptions now!


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## Mandryka

I'll tell you one that's interesting -- Art of Fugue from Viotta Ensemble/Jan Willem de Vriend. He splits up a melody across different instruments which makes me think of Webern a bit in his (also interesting) transcription from Musical Offering.

By the way, for those who can stand Stokowsky, there's a better earlier recording from the 1930s. It's an extraordinary thing to do, to take a piece for solo violin and plonk it in an orchestra with winds.


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## brotagonist

Thanks! It's rather long, so I will have to listen later on, but I want to hear a couple of sections now.

For anyone interested, here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiJnN4bTWJ13cXAyya6cNiCkWXfbX8HE9

I can't stop listening! This is gorgeous. I've been reading reviews and they are sparse-and negative!  People just can't accept something done a little differently. From the first instant, I knew I want a recording of this.

Allmusic said:

"...While parsing Bach's music into tiny phrases may be interesting for a few short examples, it becomes exasperating over 78 minutes, and elucidates little about fugal techniques. Breaking up Bach's counterpoint into fragments may serve van Vlijmen's studies, but not the edification and enjoyment of the listener. Furthermore, the dark tone of the instruments -- low woodwinds, and brass, strings, and harp kept well within middle range -- makes the music seem closed-in and stuffy; taking some liberties with higher transpositions would have given the music more air and clarity...."

This is totally off. It is not in the least exasperating. The fugues are clearly audible and not lost in an overblown orchestral transposition. The darker tone-is it really _that_ dark?-suits the serious and reflective tone of the music. It's gorgeous.

Haskins, of the American Record Guide:

"A Webernesque arrangement of Bach's final composition. De Vriend handles the unusual instrumentation (including alto flute, English Horn, and mandolin) just fine, and the playing is expert recommended for Webern fans."

Fine _only_ for Webern fans? He doesn't want to stick his neck out.


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## Mandryka

I must say, every time I play it I really enjoy it. The orchestration is by Jan van Vlijman, who may well be a composer worth exploring in his own right. 

Another good AoF orchestration is by Erich Bergel, there's a recording played by Cluj Philharmonic. He uses the orchestra like an organist might use an organ.


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## Heliogabo

I really love Stokowski's Bach transcriptions, I've enjoyed some others by other composers too, but this cd is a must


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## Bulldog

brotagonist said:


> This is totally off. It is not in the least exasperating. The fugues are clearly audible and not lost in an overblown orchestral transposition. The darker tone-is it really _that_ dark?-suits the serious and reflective tone of the music. It's gorgeous.


Interesting. I would have liked an even darker interpretation.


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## DaveM

For me the greatest recording of Stokowski's Bach Transcriptions (particularly the Chaconne) is the 1974 RCA recording with the London Symphony Orchestra. The production quality of the recording itself was/is astounding (the London orchestra string section can only be described as ethereal) although the American RCA vinyl quality was, as usual in those days, unfortunately inferior. 

An interesting factotum: This recording was SQ Quadraphonic (4-channel) which was all the rage at the time. There were 3 different 4-channel formats at the time (SQ being one of them) and I had the decoders for all of them. Dolby eventually bought the patents for 2 of them so what you hear today as Dolby Surround Sound first originated from the 1970s quadraphonic formats.

It took a long time for this recording to be released on CD and even now it is not that easy to come by. It is available on U.S. Amazon as a Japanese import. However, it is also available as part of the 13 disk Stokowski RCA Stereo Collection which contains all of Stokowski's RCA (now remastered) recordings which is what I own.

IMO, the Stokowski Bach Chaconne, especially in the form of the recording mentioned above, is one of the most moving and profound works ever recorded! I think Bach himself would have more than approved.


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## gprengel

DaveM said:


> IMO, the Stokowski Bach Chaconne, especially in the form of the recording mentioned above, is one of the most moving and profound works ever recorded! I think Bach himself would have more than approved.


Thank you so much, Dave, I just ordered the recording you mentioned! I am glad that I am not the only one who is thrilled by this masterwork in orchestra form! First I got to know the Chaconne by the outstanding piano rendition by Helene Grimaud, then by the Stokowski and finally also the original violin Version - in whatever garment - the Chaconne for me is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.


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## DaveM

gprengel said:


> Thank you so much, Dave, I just ordered the recording you mentioned! I am glad that I am not the only one who is thrilled by this masterwork in orchestra form! First I got to know the Chaconne by the outstanding piano rendition by Helene Grimaud, then by the Stokowski and finally also the original violin Version - in whatever garment - the Chaconne for me is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.


Glad to be of help. You won't be disappointed.


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## Aggelos

Woodduck said:


> It's my first look at this thread too, and Aggelos has given me some good laughs. I don't know where he is now, but if he's moved on to another life I hope Stokowski will be there to autograph his Bach transcription CDs.


Haha! I am still here. I haven't met Stokowski yet... And I don't believe in afterlife. I believe that after death, everything in my life shall return to the ultimate nothing-naught, a dreamless sleep. Therefore I won't meet Leopold Stokowski to get him sign me my Bach-Stokowski CDs....



gprengel said:


> Hi Aggelos,
> like you I am also a huge fan of orchestral Bach transcriptions. For me the greatests transcription is Stokowski's from the Chaconne - for me one of the greatest achievements I ever have heard in my life:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of the Chaconne there is also another wonderful transcription, but not quiete as ingenious as the one from Stokowski:


Yes I subscribe to your view. It's a very interesting orchestral rendering the one that Stokowski prepared. There are various orchestrations for the Chaconne by : Joachim Raff, Alfredo Casella, A. Walter Kramer, Jeno Hubay, Maximilian Steinberg, Pavel Rivilis, Natan Rakhlin.



















Bach / Natan Rakhlin : Chaconne
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyS38VvS7OI‎
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natan_Rakhlin

Bach / Pavel Rivilis : Chaconne (инструментовка «Чаконы» И.-С. Баха для симфонического оркестра)
http://classic-online.ru/ru/production/52151
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ривилис,_Павел_Борисович
http://old.rsl.ru/view.jsp?f=1003&t...t=3&v4=&f=1016&t=3&v5=&cc=a1&s=2&ss=1003&ce=4

J.S. Bach / Alfredo Casella : Chaconne.





Rene Leibowitz's arrangement and recording of Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor for double orchestra is just one of the unique achievements of his.
http://www.uraniarecords.com/wordpress/?p=1377





I would like to hear his orchestration for the Toccata and Fugue one day, but the chances are slim of it to receive a recording....

- J.S. Bach / Rene Leibowitz: Toccata and Fugue in D Minor BWV 565
Instrumentation : pic.2(2.pic).2(2.ca).Ebcl.1.bcl.2.cbsn - 4.2.2.btbn.1 - timp.perc(tri, cym, tam-t, tamb, b.d)-hp.pno(cel) - str
http://www.schott-france.com/shop/Sheet_Music/orchestra/2682321/2263327/show,303087.html


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## Klassic

Aggelos said:


> Yes I listen to others as well... I don't have time.
> Therefore I need to listen to my favorite things...


So excellently right on. Set up not to waste life.


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## Aggelos

Yes, of course

Bach-Stokowski 'Little Fugue' - Bernstein introduces the Maestro Stokowski


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## Aggelos

https://atmaclassique.com/En/Albums/AlbumInfo.aspx?AlbumID=352
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/atm22570a.php









http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 10282
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/c/cha10282a.php









http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-orchestral-transcriptions-by-respighi-and-elgar-mw0002305955
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs72741a.php
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/bach-transcriptions-by-respighi-and-elgar/









http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/l/lta00216a.php
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Aug07/Henry_Wood_SRCD216.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Sept07/Wood_SRCD216.htm
http://www.soundstage.com/music/reviews/rev969.htm









http://www.allmusic.com/album/relea...ski-transcriptions-for-orchestra-mr0002104938


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## Aggelos

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 5030
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Aug04/Bach_conductors.htm


> Bach poached from the organ loft, or ferried away from the recital stage and magnified to cinematic proportions
> 
> Even when confronted with a repertoire full of imposing and magisterial music, conductors still apparently hear non-orchestral repertoire in orchestral terms and want to claim it for themselves. None more famous than Stokowski in Bach, of course, but none of that appears on this superb collection from Leonard Slatkin and the BBC Symphony Orchestra.
> 
> Dimitri Mitropoulos's epic version of the Fantasia and Fugue in G minor BWV542 is a sure highlight. Whether in the anguished opening, the solemn descent at the centre of the prelude or in the jaunty fugue, Mitropoulos knew how this elevated music might best sound for orchestra and his hunches paid off, both on his own, harder-hitting 1942 recording and this regal, nicely detailed statement under Slatkin.
> 
> I was fascinated by Sir Henry Wood's 'Suite No 6 for Full Orchestra' (No 5 is for strings, apparently), especially the quietly rippling version of the C sharp minor Prelude from Book One of the Well-Tempered Clavier that opens it. The central sequence unexpectedly includes a warm but solemn Adagio from Bach's Capriccio, whereas more predictably the finale calls on the E major violin Partita's Prelude. More primary-coloured than Mitropoulos, less lavish than Stoky, Wood's aromatic Bach should henceforth enter the repertory's sidelines.
> 
> The programme opens with good old BWV565 of Fantasia fame. And while Stanislaw Skrowaczewski's orchestration levels with Stokowski's (and Wood's of the same piece), a more strident use of percussion brings it in further into the 20th century.
> 
> Then there are the slower pieces, mostly chorales and chorale preludes, plush and heavily draped in the case of Eugene Ormandy, Sir John Barbirolli, and Walter Damrosch (a little overbearing in A Mighty Fortress is our God). I'm not too sure about Otto Klemperer's 'Bist du bei mir' which seems keen on a Schoenbergian route but doesn't quite get that far, or Malcolm Sargent's sugar-coated Air. Erich Leinsdorf gets the balance about right for Herzlich tut mich verlangen but in any case everything here is worth sampling at least once, and most of it more often than that. It's a real treat and the sound is excellent. Need I say more?
> 
> -- Rob Cowan, Gramophone











http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 9835
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/aug00/bachtranscription.htm
http://www.classical-music.com/review/bach-151
http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-4647/



> And there's not a single arrangement by Stokowski! A good thing, I'd say - especially as Stokowski's own recordings of his Bach transcriptions are so generously represented on CD. Respighi's Passacaglia and Fugue opens like a lavish sacramental ceremony. Organ pedals add so much thunder though the softer moments are moulded with great care. Just occasionally you sense the Respighi of the Roman trilogy: at 4'02'', for example, where raucous winds lend a touch of tartness to the texture. The Chandos recording is generally superb, even though momentary overhang obscures the opening bassoon note of the Fugue. It's a warm, regal statement, quite the opposite of Toscanini's wild-eyed sermon (which is still tops in my book).
> Bantock's Wachet auf uses the brass as a sort of substitute organ, with the strings as decoration. I much preferred it to Honegger's C major Prelude and Fugue which, like the Schoenberg St Anne that closes the programme, has instrumental lines popping through the surface like so many sore thumbs. The overall canvas favours the sort of primary-coloured palette that Ravel chose for Mussorgsky's Pictures.
> 
> Slatkin has recorded Elgar's blustery Prelude and Fugue before (RCA, 3/89), to equally good effect (though here the bass drum in the Prelude is particularly striking), and his mastery of string sonorities presents the best possible case for Reger's beautiful O Mensch, bewein' dein' Sunde gross. Between them, Vaughan Williams and Arnold Foster manage to make the 'Giant' Fugue sound like a dead ringer for the first movement of Bach's Double Concerto for two violins while Holst's Fugue a la gigue spurts to a sudden and excited full-tutti close.
> 
> For me, though, the really big news is Joachim Raff's Chaconne, where pompous chest-beating is never on the agenda and transparency is a welcome attribute. Just listen to the exultant transition at 6'00'', where full strings take the lead, or the way Raff negotiates woodwinds and pizzicato strings. You could, I suppose, accuse him of making a molehill out of a mountain, but the colour, variety and imagination he brings to bear on the piece are remarkable, and the performance is again superb.
> 
> Individual listeners will no doubt squabble about this or that preference, just as I will be doing with my colleagues (a cue for a Take Five follow-up review, perhaps?). For this listener, the Respighi, Elgar and Raff costumes are the principal attractions, although the others also deserve an occasional airing. Stokowski remains in a class of his own but when all has been listened to and you think back at what you've actually heard, the most lasting memory is of one man, and one man only: JSB himself.'
> 
> Grammophone - Rob Cowan





> The CD runs just over 73 minutes - apparently a tenth orchestration, the Bach/Saint-Saëns Sarabande was recorded but had to be omitted owing to playing time consideration. As these were BBC Philharmonic/Chandos joint sessions, the material is all destined to be broadcast, and enthusiasts in the UK may like to look out for the Saint-Saëns when it is aired on Friday 28 July around 11.30am.
> Lewis Foreman






This music started life as the third movement 'Sarabande' in J. S. Bach's 'English Suite' No. 3 in G minor for Harpsichord (BWV 808). In this arrangement by Camille Saint-Saëns, the poignant principal melody becomes a violin solo with an orchestral accompaniment and is heard three times, successively becoming more elaborate in the solo part. This performance dates from 1999 and was recorded along with other Bach transcriptions by the BBC Philharmonic in its Manchester studio and subsequently given a radio broadcast. The conductor was Leonard Slatkin, prior to his appointment as the BBC Symphony's chief conductor, and the violin soloist was Yuri Torchinsky.









http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 10081
http://www.classical-music.com/review/respighi-22
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Oct03/Respighi_LaBoutique_phillips.htm
http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=1486
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/aug/01/classicalmusicandopera.shopping



> Playing that's full of zest fully matches Respighi's brilliance as an orchestrator
> 
> Noseda's vigorous account of the under-recorded La Boutique fantasque makes a fine coupling with two rarities which similarly show off Respighi's brilliance as an orchestrator of others' music.
> 
> La Pentola magica ('The magic pot'), dating from 1920, is a ballet-score for which the scenario has been lost, though the titles of the 10 brief movements give an idea of the Russian story behind it - 'Armenian Song' (which features Hannah Sawle's fresh soprano voice), 'Scene of the Tsarevitch', 'Dance of the Tartar Archers', 'Cossack Dance' and so on. Respighi drew on relatively neglected Russian composers such as Grechaninov, Arensky and Rubinstein, and Polish- born Pachulski, as well as including his arrangements of Russian folk themes. Slow music and a relaxed mood predominates in evocative orchestration which bears witness to Respighi's enjoyment of the exercise.
> 
> His joy in orchestral sound is even more striking in this exuberant account of an arrangement of Bach's D major Prelude and Fugue, with rich, weighty brass and dramatic contrasts of timbre and dynamic. The performance of La Boutique fantasque has similar zest. The playing of the BBC Philharmonic may not be quite as polished as that of the Montreal Symphony Orchestra under Charles Dutoit, whose decca disc was recently deleted, but it is generally more expressive, with rubato that dancers would not welcome in a staging. The speeds tend to be a degree more extreme, which brings an apt and enjoyable sense of danger in the pointing of the tricky woodwind flurries dotted through the score. The Chandos sound, satisfyingly full and bright, matches the performance.
> 
> -- Edward Greenfield, Gramophone











http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4776118
http://www.classicalcdreview.com/afied.html









http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=217
http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=6907#reviews
http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=4076


----------



## Jeffrey Smith

The Elgar transcription (I have a couple of recordings of it, including the Schwarz) is a truly Elgarian delight.


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## Aggelos

https://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc211.html
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/May10/Bach_Ormandy_PASC211.htm









http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Jan01/Bach_Transcriptions.htm









http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4791074
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/d/dgg791074a.php
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/29/rite-spring-philadelphia-nezet-review
http://www.musicaltoronto.org/2014/...f-philadelphia-orchestrayannick-nezet-seguin/









https://www.pristineclassical.com/pasc444.html
http://www.audaud.com/lucien-caillet-studio-recordings-1936-1946-works-of-bach-purcell-turina-caillet-mussorgsky-ormandyreinerstokowskifiedler-pristine-audio/
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Sep/Cailliet_arrangements_PASC444.htm









http://www.deccaclassics.com/us/cat/4751452
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Feb04/Stokowski_Decca.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Nov14/Phase4_pt8.htm
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/r/rca68443a.php
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mae03290a.php
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/c/cal00527a.php
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/apl00056a.php
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/s/sny62345a.php
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/p/pst00242a.php



> Stokowski and the Czech Philharmonic kick off with one of the conductor's best-known transcriptions, that of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor. It's clever, if a tad impenetrable at times, but this is a performance that's bound to impress with its combination of weight and detail. The Prelude in E flat minor from Book 1 of The Well Tempered Clavier is lighter and more spontaneous than I'd expected; the Czech Phil, recorded live in the Rudolfinum in 1972, play very well here and in Mein Jesu! was für Seelenweh; they bring a real sense of gravitas to the latter and a delightful buoyancy to Wir glauben all an einen Gott that follows. As for Stoky's imposing take on bits of the Easter Cantata it's reminiscent of another age of Baroque performance, when size mattered most.
> 
> William Byrd's Pavan is more sensitively scaled and hence more appealing; the LSO play with remarkable lightness and transparency, even though the score does veer towards a cinematic soupiness at times. Howard Snell is the ringing soloist in this slightly cumbersome version of the famous Trumpet Voluntary. Alas, the plucked strings are bumped up to cartoonish levels, which just sounds bizarre.
> 
> We leap forward to the early 19th century and Schubert's Moments musicaux. Stokowski's orchestration of No. 3, the Allegro moderato in F minor, is attractive, if a tad lumpy at times. Chopin's Op. 17/4 Mazurka is similarly proficient, although Tchaikovsky's Chant sans paroles is too overwrought for my tastes. Happily Extase, one of Henri Duparc's loveliest mélodies, is more discreetly done; David Gray's wistful horn is a diaphanous delight and the LSO play with telling restraint throughout. The Czech Phil return for a suitably Gothic rendition of Rachmaninov's Prelude in C sharp minor, Op.3/2. One of Stoky's more striking efforts its bold climaxes are magnificently played and recorded.
> 
> Duparc's Extase is a little gem; Stoky fans should enjoy this disc.


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## Aggelos

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mdg71584a.php
http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=6160









http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/w/war686074a.php









http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-transcriptions-mw0001828976


> "Cranked-up," "Rock 'n' Roll," "thick shag of strings": these are just a few of the unlikely descriptions used by the writer of the liner notes for his release in a useless attempt to justify the ways of transcription to man. But no justification is possible or even necessary. To the purist, a transcription is an abomination in the ears of God and man, and any transcription is a mortal sin against the art of Bach. But that hardly matters since this disc is clearly not for purists; it's for music lovers who want to rock with Bach. And this disc does rock, loud and hard. After some fairly snoozy years under the aging André Previn, the Los Angeles Philharmonic under music director Esa-Pekka Salonen has become one of the great virtuoso orchestras in the country, fully capable of playing Mahler, Stravinsky, Messiaen or even Bach transcriptions with fire and precision.
> 
> As you might expect, the disc starts with the most (in)famous Bach transcription of all time: the Stokowski Toccata and Fugue in D minor. Apparently, to Stokowski, Bach was a chubby German burgher with a penchant for flashy clothes and cheap jewelry: his transcription of the Toccata is overdressed, fat, and slow. Salonen gives the devil his due and grants Stokowski all the ponderous weight the LAPO can summon. He even goes so far as to slow down at the stretto just before the climax of the fugue. One imagines that Stokowski would have loved it. Amazingly enough, the rest of the disc isn't anticlimatic. The Elgar C minor Fantasy and Fugue is a moving example of Elgarian Nobilmente at its best. The Schoenberg "St. Anne" Prelude and Fugue is boisterous good fun. And the Mahler Suite is an infectious confection.
> 
> On its own terms, this disc is highly recommended.
> 
> AllMusic Review by James Leonar











http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Ozawa.htm#T2
http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-orchestral-transcriptions-mw0001850127









http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/n/nxs57522a.php
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.557522
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Dec06/Schoenberg_Serenade_8557522.htm


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## Lukecash12

I often think of Casella when orchestral transcriptions and arrangements of Bach are brought up.


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## Aggelos

Lukecash12 said:


> I often think of Casella when orchestral transcriptions and arrangements of Bach are brought up.


Haha! I posted it already on post No 33
http://www.talkclassical.com/6250-bach-symphonic-transcriptions-post1019026.html#post1019026
I don't know whether there has been another recording for the Bach-Casella Chaconne eversince Mitropoulos tackled it.









http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/fr/cat/4762830
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jul/08/classicalmusicandopera.shopping5









http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2025
http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2025#reviews
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mdg51030a.php
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Nov01/Respighi_MDG.htm
http://www.classical-music.com/review/respighi-bach









http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Aug03/GIULINI_AND_MITROPOULOS.htm
http://www.allmusic.com/album/release/giulini-mitropoulos-1949-1950-mr0002135186


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## Lukecash12

Aggelos said:


> Haha! I posted it already on post No 33
> http://www.talkclassical.com/6250-bach-symphonic-transcriptions-post1019026.html#post1019026
> I don't know whether there has been another recording for the Bach-Casella Chaconne eversince Mitropoulos tackled it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/fr/cat/4762830
> http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jul/08/classicalmusicandopera.shopping5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2025
> http://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=2025#reviews
> http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/m/mdg51030a.php
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2001/Nov01/Respighi_MDG.htm
> http://www.classical-music.com/review/respighi-bach
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Aug03/GIULINI_AND_MITROPOULOS.htm
> http://www.allmusic.com/album/release/giulini-mitropoulos-1949-1950-mr0002135186


Well thank God for Mitropoulos. Those woodwind parts are something else, and Casella's scores for it are utterly saturated with creativity. The music is dripping with intermittent excitement and austerity. It's as if he is wringing every bit of emotional subtext out of the original, with his pizzicati, airy and flighty woodwind passages, overwhelming gravitas of the horns as they resound the melody, and then the festive and beautiful use of the horns as we move into the major section. Two utterly enthralling musical minds meet!


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## hpowders

I've never listened to any transcription of Bach that I would want to hear a second time.

Call me a purist. It's the original or nothing.


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## tdc

This thread should be re-titled - Bach Orchestral Transcriptions.


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## Aggelos

hpowders said:


> I've never listened to any transcription of Bach that I would want to hear a second time.
> 
> Call me a purist. It's the original or nothing.


I think the reviewer of this recording mentioned it clearly and put it eloquently....

http://www.allmusic.com/album/bach-transcriptions-mw0001828976


> "Cranked-up," "Rock 'n' Roll," "thick shag of strings": these are just a few of the unlikely descriptions used by the writer of the liner notes for his release in a useless attempt to justify the ways of transcription to man. But no justification is possible or even necessary. *To the purist, a transcription is an abomination in the ears of God and man, and any transcription is a mortal sin against the art of Bach. But that hardly matters since this disc is clearly not for purists; it's for music lovers who want to rock with Bach. And this disc does rock, loud and hard.* After some fairly snoozy years under the aging André Previn, the Los Angeles Philharmonic under music director Esa-Pekka Salonen has become one of the great virtuoso orchestras in the country, fully capable of playing Mahler, Stravinsky, Messiaen or even Bach transcriptions with fire and precision.
> 
> As you might expect, the disc starts with the most (in)famous Bach transcription of all time: the Stokowski Toccata and Fugue in D minor. Apparently, to Stokowski, Bach was a chubby German burgher with a penchant for flashy clothes and cheap jewelry: his transcription of the Toccata is overdressed, fat, and slow. Salonen gives the devil his due and grants Stokowski all the ponderous weight the LAPO can summon. He even goes so far as to slow down at the stretto just before the climax of the fugue. One imagines that Stokowski would have loved it. Amazingly enough, the rest of the disc isn't anticlimatic. The Elgar C minor Fantasy and Fugue is a moving example of Elgarian Nobilmente at its best. The Schoenberg "St. Anne" Prelude and Fugue is boisterous good fun. And the Mahler Suite is an infectious confection.
> 
> On its own terms, this disc is highly recommended.
> 
> AllMusic Review by James Leonar


----------



## Aggelos

Lukecash12 said:


> Well thank God for Mitropoulos. Those woodwind parts are something else, and Casella's scores for it are utterly saturated with creativity. The music is dripping with intermittent excitement and austerity. It's as if he is wringing every bit of emotional subtext out of the original, with his pizzicati, airy and flighty woodwind passages, overwhelming gravitas of the horns as they resound the melody, and then the festive and beautiful use of the horns as we move into the major section. Two utterly enthralling musical minds meet!


Casella surely has the ability to render the dark Spanish atmosphere, the grandiose of the baroque era, the virtuoso elements of the violin idiom.
Mitropoulos performed the Bach-Casella on October 12th 1950 with the NY Philharmonic. These are the program notes 
http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/77cfd32a-d106-4c2c-8f0f-8b3e00dedf18/fullview

On the other hand, how do you think the Bach-Hubay Chaconne went down when it was introduced by Eugene Ormandy (on July 23rd 1934)?
http://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/artifact/51f71f83-8cc1-4893-bf0d-ab22665bf042/fullview


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## Klassic

I think transcriptions of Bach's music comprise some of the greatest pieces in the world.


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## Aggelos

Klassic said:


> I think transcriptions of Bach's music comprise some of the greatest pieces in the world.


It depends on what kind of transcription we are dealing with..... Plush and lavish orchestral transcriptions of Bach's music have been a bone of contention. However, they helped popularize Bach's music in the 20th century.










http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/5106
http://avex.jp/classics/artist/shimono/disc_e.html



> Speaking of chaconnes, paring Corigiliano's Symphony with a transcription of Bach's Chaconne might seem odd, but the thematic connection should be obvious. Hideo Saitoh's colorful transcription clarifies the counterpoint, and it seems to be at least partially based on Busoni's piano arrangement.


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## Aggelos

Bach's Greatest Fugues - Scored for Double Orchestra
St. Anne Fugue in E flat, Little Fugue in G minor,
Fugue in D, Great Fugue in G minor,
Fugue in A minor, Fugue in C Minor, Fugue in C
Philadelphia Orchestra/Eugene Ormandy
http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/products/bach-greatest-fugues-scored-for-double-orchestra-ormandy-philadelphia-orchestra

These are probably transcriptions by Eugene Ormandy, Arthur Harris and Thomas T. Frost

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Ormandy.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Harris-A.htm
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Arran/OT-Frost-T.htm

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Apr/RimskyK_Bach_HDTT.htm
http://www.audaud.com/bachs-greatest-fugues-scored-for-double-orchestra-philadelphia-orch-eugene-ormandy-hdtt-audio-only-blu-ray-sibelius-symphony-no-2-philadelphia-orch-eugene-ormandy-hdtt-audio-onl/


----------



## Aggelos

Bach-Stokowski "Ich ruf' zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ" - George Cleve conducts




*This sublime Organ Chorale Prelude, transcribed by Stokowski and first recorded by him in 1927 as 'I Call Upon Thee,' is here performed by the San Francisco Orchestra under George Cleve*. He was born in Austria in 1936 and brought to America while still a young boy. He studied music in New York and eventually became a US citizen. However, he is little known as a conductor these days, largely because he could be tyrannical and over-demanding, something which doubtless held back a conducting career that was spent entirely in America. In addition, he wasn't a recording artist, so his name hasn't been familiar to record collectors. Still, as this brief item from a 1986 radio broadcast shows, he was able to achieve beautiful playing from the San Francisco band. In 2015, Cleve died at the age of 79 in California.

Bach-Stokowski - Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor - Matthias Bamert conducts




Matthias Bamert was for several years Stokowski's Assistant Conductor at the American Symphony Orchestra. In tribute to the great maestro, he recorded half-a-dozen CDs of Stokowski Transcriptions and also performed many of them in concert. *Here is his splendid account of a great Bach arrangement, recorded during the 1996 Proms with the BBC Symphony at London's Royal Albert Hall.* His CDs of Stokowski Transcriptions can be found on the 'Chandos' label. The Bach CD referred to by the announcer at the start also features the Passacaglia and Fugue, played by the BBC Philharmonic, on CHAN 9259.

Bach: Toccata and Fugue in D minor - Skrowaczewski arranger / conductor




This is a belated tribute to Stanislaw Skrowaczewski, who died earlier this year (21 February 2017) at the age of 93. The most famous orchestration of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor for organ was made by Leopold Stokowski but a number of other musicians have also made orchestral transcriptions. *Skrowaczewski's is among the most lavish and colourful and dates from the early 1960s.* The performance heard here comes from a 1974 broadcast with the Minnesota Orchestra, of which he was then Music Director, and a splendid performance it is too!

Bach-Stokowski: Toccata & Fugue in D minor - Comissiona / Asian Youth Orchestra




Published on 13 September 2017 to mark the 40th Anniversary of Stokowski's death on 13 September 1977. This famous orchestral transcription of a celebrated Bach organ piece was played in a concert that marked the 10th Anniversary in 1999 of the Asian Youth Orchestra. Its players are made up of young musicians from many Asian countries and are heard here under their conductor laureate Sergiu Comissiona.

Bach-Stokowski: Toccata and Fugue - Charles Dutoit conducts




This famous arrangement is being published to mark Leopold Stokowski's birthday (he was born on 18 April 1882). His orchestral transcription of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor for organ has been taken up by many conductors and is played here by the NHK Symphony Orchestra of Tokyo under Charles Dutoit during his time as its principal conductor (1996-2003).

Bach-Stokowski: Toccata & Fugue in D minor - Jacques Grimbert conducts




Published 18 April 2016 to mark Stokowski's 134th birthday (born 18 April 1882) ... The most famous Bach orchestration of all is given scintillating French polish by the Orchestre de Paris-Sorbonne under the direction of Jacques Grimbert. It was recorded in 2000 in the Grand Amphitheatre de la Sorbonne, pictured in the Toccata. (From an 'Arsis Classics' CD.)

Bach-Stokowski 'Siciliano' - Matthias Bamert conducts




Many of Stokowski's Bach arrangements were simplicity itself. Here is one example, a transcription for strings of the lilting 'Siciliano' in Bach's Violin Sonata No. 4. The BBCPO is conducted by Matthias Bamert on this 1993 Chandos CD (CHAN 9259).

Bach 'Come, Sweet Death' - Ormandy arranger / conductor




'Komm, süsser Tod' - Eugene Ormandy conducts the Philadelphia Orchestra in his own transcription of this poignant sacred song by Bach. It comes from a 1954 LP (now 'public domain') reissued on CD by Pristine Audio (PASC211).

Bach-Cailliet: Preludio in E - Ormandy conducts




When Eugene Ormandy began taking over the reigns of the Philadelphia Orchestra from Leopold Stokowski, he followed in the former Maestro's footsteps by conducting many orchestral transcriptions. *These he commissioned from the orchestra's 'house arranger' and principal clarinet, Lucien Cailliet. *Here is Cailliet's splendid orchestration of the Preludio in Bach's Solo Violin Partita No. 3 (BWV 1006). It was recorded in 1937 and can be heard, along with other Cailliet transcriptions, on Pristine Audio PASC 444

==================================================================









https://www.pentatonemusic.com/metropolitan-hilarion-bach
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Oct/Bach_Alfeyev_PTC5186593.htm
https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12346













https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7337
https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=12045

This is scandalous. 
At least Lucien Cailliet can be vindicated through the internet and people can know who he was and what kind of "ghost" role he played as an orchestrator when Leopold Stokowski was a principal conductor of the Philadelphia Orchestra.








http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Sep/Cailliet_arrangements_PASC444.htm
https://www.pristineclassical.com/products/pasc444



> Transcriber, arranger and composer Lucien Cailliet was born in Dijon in 1891. He studied composition and orchestration in Dijon and Paris. During World War I, he was a bandmaster in the French Army Band, with which he toured the United States in 1915. * Four years later, Leopold Stokowski hired him as a clarinetist for the Philadelphia Orchestra. Not long after his arrival, an orchestration of the Marseillaise was needed for a guest singer, and Cailliet volunteered to provide one. Pleased with the results, Stokowski continued to work with him over the next several years in his transcriptions of the works of Bach and others.*
> 
> Cailliet's exact role in the orchestrations credited to Stokowski has long been a matter of controversy. Writing to Stokowski biographer Oliver Daniel in 1978, Cailliet said that the Marseillaise project "started me in doing all his orchestrations."
> 
> *In fact, the next one he asked me [to do] was the [Bach] C Minor Passacaglia. Of course, we had some discussions before as, after all, he was an organist and a famous musician. [. . .] I must confide in you that as the situation developed, Stokowski asked me from the beginning not to mention or speak about it and keep the situation "entre nous" and adding: "The people would not understand." That is how the name of Stokowski appeared on the programs as orchestrator.*
> 
> Earlier, however, in an interview with broadcaster Steve Cohen, Cailliet credited Stokowski with a greater role in the Passacaglia transcription: "It was his idea completely, and of course he was himself a very good orchestrator. He made a very good choice of instruments."
> 
> Based on the experiences of others who worked with Stokowski in producing transcriptions, it is believed that the conductor indicated his choices for instrumentation on the score for the transcriber to carry out. Stokowski would then edit and make further alterations to the score. Still, the collaborations with Stokowski provided Cailliet with valuable training.
> *
> Cailliet was not credited for his transcriptions, at least on record, until Eugene Ormandy's arrival in Philadelphia as co-conductor in 1936. (Indeed, the Bach Prelude and Fugue in F minor which opens our program was Ormandy's very first recording with the Philadelphians.) Stokowski did record one transcription specifically credited to Cailliet (Turina's Sacro-Monte),* but it was never issued on 78s.
> 
> In 1937, Cailliet left the orchestra to teach at the University of Southern California. Before his departure, Ormandy commissioned him to make his most significant transcription yet, that of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. Working in the shadow of Ravel's already famous version must have been daunting, but Cailliet, writing for the ensemble he knew so intimately, acquitted himself well with his imaginative instrumentation. He also reinstated the Promenade before "Limoges", cut by Ravel. This remains the only recording of Cailliet's version, except for the "Ballet of the Chicks" movement, which Leonard Slatkin included in his composite edition using different orchestrations of the work.
> 
> In the mid-1940s, Cailliet left teaching to work as an (often uncredited) orchestrator for Hollywood films, including such classics as She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Red River and The Ten Commandments. He died in Los Angeles in 1985.


Here you can preview Cailliet orchestration for J.S. Bach's Little Fugue in G Minor BWV 578
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/fugue-in-g-minor-bwv-578-little.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucien_Cailliet


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## mbhaub

The neglect of the Cailliet's Mussorgsky transcription is shameful. When Koussevitsky's exclusive performance rights were up, Ormandy only ever programmed and recorded the Ravel. His followers, Muti, Sawallisch, Eschenbach - all Ravel. The Philadelphia librarian once told me that the score and parts are in pretty fragile state. I hope that someone is attempting to preserve them for posterity. I am one of those who prefer the Cailliet over Ravel (I prefer Funtek's, too) and wish someone, bored to death of the Ravel, would take up Cailliet's. I took a workshop with Cailliet on writing for wind band many years ago. Fine gentleman, great teacher and full of wonderful stories. His Bach transcriptions are also over due for modern recordings.


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## Aggelos

You're right. His Bach transcriptions are long overdue for digital recordings.
I think that the best representation of Bach-Cailliet is when Fiedler switched from RCA to Deutsche Grammophon in 1970s and recorded the Little Fugue in G Minor for the album "Symphonic Spectacular" . Fiedler seemed to have championed that orchestration over Stokowski's and so did Fritz Reiner.

According to the Clinton Nieweg catalogue, the score and parts for the Mussrogsky-Cailliet orchestration do not match and various parts are not in playable form
http://imslp.org/wiki/Orchestrations_and_Arrangements_of_Mussorgsky's_'Pictures_at_an_Exhibition'
Meaning that the idea of keeping it for posterity doesn't seem to be possible anymore.

If you took a workshop with Cailliet himself, then it must have been many many years ago, since Cailliet passed away in 1985.
It's shame that even Eugene Ormandy abandoned his orchestral transcriptions. Perhaps when Ormandy arrived at Philedalphia he learned about Cailliet's backstory on those (in)famous Stokowski orchestral transcriptions (since Stokowski was a famous personality with a tendency to include them in his programmes), thus I believe Ormandy must have wanted to do justice to the uncredited work of Cailliet by recording his orchestral transcriptions and even commissioning him to orchestrate Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. 
But as years went by, it seems that most Philadelphia conductors let him be eclipsed by obscurity and the ravages of time.









https://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4776118
https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-arthur-fiedler-legacy-symphonic-spectacular-mw0001170440
http://www.classicalcdreview.com/afied.html

I was just wondering -> what are the chances for the following orchestration to see a digital recording some day
-Bach / Lucien Cailliet : Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565 [Carl Fischer]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/toccata-and-fugue-in-d-minor-for-organ-bwv-565.html

-Bach / Lucien Cailliet : Prelude and Fugue in G minor, BWV 558 [Carl Fischer]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/prelude-and-fugue-in-g-minor-bwv-558.html

-Bach / Lucien Cailliet : Come, Sweet Death (Komm, susser Tod), BWV 478 [Elkan-Vogel, Inc. ]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/come-sweet-death-komm-susser-tod.html

-Bach / Lucien Cailliet : Jagdkantate, Schafe konnen sicher weiden, BWV 208 [Boosey & Hawkes]
-Bach / Lucien Cailliet : Herzlich tut mich verlangen [Elkan-Vogel]

==========================================================================

-Bach / Herman Boessenroth : Prelude in E Major from Violin Sonata No. 6 [Elkan-Vogel, Inc. ]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/prelude-from-violin-sonata-no-6.html

-Bach / Herman Boessenroth : "Wir glauben All' an einen Gott", BWV 680 [Elkan-Vogel, Inc. ]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/credo-wir-glauben-all-an-einen-gott.html

-Bach / Herman Boessenroth : Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor, BWV 582 [Elkan-Vogel, Inc. ]
https://www.carlfischer.com/shop/passacaglia-and-fugue-in-c-minor.html


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## mbhaub

The workshop I had with Cailliet was in 1976. He had written a fine booklet for Leblanc on the use and scoring for the clarinet choir in the symphonic band. He ardently believed that the wind band needed several Eb clarinets, a pair each of altos, bass clarinets and not only a contralto but a contrabass, too. It gave the band a depth and sonority that no other family of instruments could. Sadly, even then, the Eb, altos and contrabass were becoming rare, and most bands had one bass, usually played with an inferior player. I still have that booklet - brings back great memories. Sorry to hear about the status of the Cailliet Pictures transcription.


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## Aggelos

You shouldn't be sorry about the status of the Mussorgsky Cailliet. This is something that happened years ago, according to Clinton Nieweg.
They tried to clean up the manuscripts for Leonard Slatkin's 1st Compendium suite. They realized that not everything was in playable condition anymore. Probably the ravages of time and obscurity had their toll on Cailliet's manuscripts.



> Orch. CAILLIET, Lucien (b. Chalon Sur Marne, France, 22 May, 1891; d. Woodland Hills, Los Angeles, CA, 3 January, 1985)
> Tableaux d'une Exhibition Orchestrated by Lucien Cailliet
> Commission by Eugene Ormandy, Music Director, The Philadelphia Orchestra
> 3[1.2.3/pic] 3[1.2.EH] 5 or 4[1.2.3. bcl (+opt cbcl)] 3[1.2.cbn] - 4 4 3 1 - tmp+8 perc (glock, xyl, chimes, sd, tri, cym, wdblk, tamtam, bd) - 2 hp - str
> Dur. 27'34"
> 
> "The unpublished manuscript set of parts was in The Philadelphia Orchestra library as of 1996,* but many sections were not then in playable condition, as the score and parts do not match. Only the sections used in the compilation by Slatkin are in playable shape.*" - Clinton F. Nieweg, Principal Librarian, (ret.), The Philadelphia Orchestra.
> 
> http://www.orchestralibrary.com/Nieweg Charts/Pictures at an Exhibition 2016.pdf
> http://www.orchestralibrary.com/


Mussorgsky-Slatkin 'Pictures at an Exhibition' - Compendium




For a Proms concert in London's Royal Albert Hall in 1991, Leonard Slatkin introduced his own edition of Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition.' It featured the various 'Promenades' and 'Pictures' in different arrangements by an assortment of orchestrators. *Ravel's version is the best known but other arrangers of Mussorgsky's piano work were Leopold Stokowski, Sir Henry Wood, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Mikhail Tushmalov, Lawrence Leonard, Lucien Cailliet, Sergei Gorchakov and Leonidas Leonardi, all of whom were featured in Slatkin's performance.* As an encore, he brought the house down with Sir Henry Wood's version of 'The Great Gate of Kiev.'

And those two have Leonardi Slatkin's 2nd compendium suite















http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Aug05/Pictures_pines_2564619542.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/oct08/Mussorgsky_Liszt_8570716.htm

=====================================================================

So you met him in person... 
Aside from discussing about the instrumentation of the wind band and the composition of the various clarinets (that would give extra layers of texture to the wind band) did you have the chance to talk about his orchestral transcriptions?


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## DaveM

I doubt that anybody could listen to Stokowski's transcription of the Chaconne and not be moved.


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## Aggelos

DaveM said:


> I doubt that anybody could listen to Stokowski's transcription of the Chaconne and not be moved.
> 
> View attachment 102953


Did you acquire the Dutton SACD release? It seems they granted your wish (from back in December 2015)
Bach Symphonic Transcriptions

The quadraphonic recordings of the 1970s, have been restored by Dutton on a multi-channel SACD.

http://www.classicalcdreview.com/MC610.HTML



> These commentaries explain the history of these remarkable four-trak recordings now issued for the first time in quality surround sound. This Stokowski album is a treasure. The Bach performances were recorded in London's St. Giles' Church April 1973, and producer Richard Mohr has captured an incredibly rich string sonorities. The Wagner was recorded in November 1973 in London's Abbey Road studios. Audio is OK, but relatively little use was made of rear speakers.
> 
> This is one most interesting of the recent Dutton releases, for two principal reasons: it adopts a radical balancing of the orchestra and it is the first hi-resolution release of Stokowski conducting his own famous re-imagining of Bach.
> 
> Modern exponents of surround recording of repertoire that isn't explicitly of the cori spezzati school of composition are companies like (in alphabetic order) 2L and Tacet. This licensed Sony recording predates their efforts by a generation and will likely divide listeners now as then as to the musical effectiveness of the myriad of seating positions adopted throughout the recording. In Stokowski, the engineers surely had the most appropriate of conductors with which they could jointly experiment: for all the pejorative jibes levelled at Karajan's meddling with the recording process, he was a steadfast conservative by comparison with these results!
> 
> The bulk of the programme offered here is from an LP release entitled "Stokowski conducts Bach - the great transcriptions". Opening with one of the longest unbroken movements of Bach, the Chaconne that has spawned other transcriptions from the likes of Brahms & Busoni, in MCH one immediately notices that the positioning of the orchestra wraps itself around the listener and - in common with film footage of this orchestra & conductor - is not how one would typically expect a modern symphony orchestra to turn out on the stage. The LSO play marvellously with tremendous range of tone and dynamic and clear affection for the general approach.
> 
> But that is as nothing compared to the marvels of the closing pages of Wagner's Götterdämmerung re-scored by Stokowski. With this work afforded a noticeably wider dynamic range, the details that Wagner & Stokowski request of the orchestra are that bit more faithfully captured and relayed to us vividly in Dutton's restoration. Perhaps because these ears, although very sympathetic to the Bach a la Stokowski, have spent a substantial amount of time listening to Bach via the HIP school of interpretation, the rubato and moulding of Wagner's music seems more of a natural fit and carries a genuine electricity. By contrast, the Bach in the same orchestral hands is not quite as gripping as one can hear from earlier accounts in Philadelphia. One constant is a feature of intonation between sections that is lacking today; solo brass or wind lines are played ever so slightly against the strings harmonic thinking - it is certainly different from the homogeneous tuning favoured today. Although it is initially distracting, the ear quickly adjusts when the playing and conducting is so persuasive (although the likes of Wagner: Gotterdämmerung - Janowski or Wagner - Fischer are unlikely to be evicted by this account).
> 
> As already alluded to, the tapes for this disc are in a far better state than Rachmaninov / Saint-Saëns: Piano Concertos No. 2 - Rubinstein / Ormandy and there is very little to complain about from a sonic perspective, although there are moments when a channel (although with no "active" contribution at the time) sounds like it "drops out" but these are to few to seriously worry about.
> 
> Recommended and one can only hope for more from this master of the orchestra.
> 
> Copyright © 2017 John Broggio and HRAudio.net


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## DaveM

Aggelos said:


> Did you acquire the Dutton SACD release? It seems they granted your wish (from back in December 2015)
> Bach Symphonic Transcriptions
> 
> The quadraphonic recordings of the 1970s, have been restored by Dutton on a multi-channel SACD.


Thanks for this info. I knew I had posted about the Chaconne in the past, but had forgotten when. I don't have the Dutton and will check it out.


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## Aggelos

This is the only thing I was able to discover in relations to the Bach-Leibowitz Toccata and Fugue orchestral transcription.
https://www.eamdc.com/composers/rene-leibowitz/works/toccata-and-fugue-in-d-minor/
It was performed by Radio-Symphony Orchestra Frankfurt on Saturday 3rd November 1984, conducted by Cristobal Halffter.
The German city Kassel is home to the so-called Bachfest (the Bach Festival) and in 1984 they held a *"Bach in the 20th Century"* series of concerts and music events.



>


Leibowitz did record his orchestration for Passacaglia and Fuge BWV 582








> "The Leibowitz-arranged Bach Passacaglia is just mesmerizing! Bach himself would approve with delight; you know Rene's touch, especially with older music (Beethoven and earlier) He doesn't overdo anything. In the case of the Bach, each phrasing and grouping has definite purpose; they have Rene's touch all over them, but again they are really unchanged in any real technical way from Bach's original composition. It is seemingly as the great work was originally composed. But yet Rene L. has somehow magically rendered this piece more accessible in a modern kind of way. It's one of Leibowitz's supreme talents. Contemporary people living in these modern times would have no problem relating to it at all. This is indeed something special. (Rene L. is so terribly underrated, it is almost a crime. We need more recordings!) As the yrs. go by, this is more and more the way I often like to hear this kind of music. I personally think the Bach arrangements are better than his "Night on Bare Mountain" and that Is hard to top. Rather than blather on my opinions any further, I think I'll quote you something better and far more informed, Charles Gherhardt: 'Few compositions invite restatement and expansion as this one does. Rene Leibowitz was preceded in this tempting and exciting role of arranger by Esker, Goedicke, Stock, Respighi and Stokowski. What the arranger has done here is to use and maintain the effect of two separate orchestras. They are divided in space, but there is of course complete contact and integration between them. The arrangement is one more tribute to the diverse genius of Bach.'
> 
> Well, both recording and performance is full, and rich, and simply just wonderful, as you can imagine two orchestras conducted in complete control with a master at the helm would be, especially given the RCA / Wilkinson Royal sonic treatment. And I love the double timpani whacks at the ending!"
> -Ralph Harris
> 
> http://www.musiques-regenerees.fr/GhettosCamps/Clandestinite/Leibowitz/Leibowitz.html


======================================================================










https://www.pristineclassical.com/products/pasc532?_pos=2&_sid=3da16267e&_ss=r

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Jul/Cailliet_v2_PASC532.htm



> The present program is the second devoted to the transcriptions and compositions of Lucien Cailliet (1891 - 1985), clarinetist of the Philadelphia Orchestra during the Stokowski era, and later teacher and film music orchestrator. For more on his biography, including the controversy surrounding the role he played in Stokowski's transcriptions, the reader is referred to our first volume (PASC 444).
> 
> In Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor, Cailliet seems intent on distancing himself from the famous Stokowski version, at a couple points adding a brass counterpoint over the arpeggios of the lower strings. The recording dates from Cailliet's Hollywood days, and comes from the soundtrack of a 1946 nature film short which presents a day in Bryce Canyon, Utah. Janssen's orchestra plays with vigor, although with an occasionally scrappy ensemble that would never be confused with Stokowski's Philadelphians.
> 
> The orchestra in the following track, however, might well be confused with the Philadelphia - appropriately so, as they were the same ensemble playing under a nom-de-disque. Charles O'Connell was a conductor, arranger and organist in addition to being Victor's Classical A&R Director, and led the Philadelphia Orchestra on some of its 1936 cross-county tour dates. Cailliet here expands the strings-and-continuo of Bach's original to include winds and brass.
> 
> Eugene Ormandy was a champion of Cailliet's transcriptions even while he was still leading the Minneapolis Symphony. The third selection was Cailliet's first credit in the recording logs as an orchestrator, even though the side remained unissued until the LP era. Ormandy continued his efforts on his behalf in Philadelphia, recording several of his arrangements and commissioning Cailliet's orchestration of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. The Prelude and Fugue in B minor was probably recorded to follow up Ormandy's recording of Cailliet's transcription of Bach's Prelude and Fugue in F minor (one Volume 1), but it, too, was unpublished on 78 rpm.
> 
> The next two transcriptions feature works by Bach's contemporaries. Buxtehude's Organ Passacaglia in D minor has often been cited as an inspiration for Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. Cailliet emphasizes the connection by adding a preface stating the unadorned bass line. And at a time when Vivaldi was known almost exclusively for his Concerto Grosso in D minor in various modern arrangements, Cailliet sought to widen the composer's renown with a full-orchestra version of one of his violin double concertos.
> 
> Taking leave of the Baroque era, Cailliet's Debussy transcription was recorded three times by Ormandy; this is his first. By contrast, Ormandy only recorded the three Rachmaninoff preludes once, on a 10-inch LP. When they were reissued as a filler on a later 12-inch disc, the Prelude in C sharp minor was omitted. (Could someone have felt it was too over-the-top?)
> 
> Cailliet's efforts were appreciated not only in Philadelphia. Arthur Fiedler recorded several of his works with his Boston "Pops", including the famous Tchaikovsky song heard here and his "Pop! Goes the Weasel" Variations (on Volume 1). Our program ends with Fiedler's recording of another of Cailliet's fantasies on a well-known tune, "Happy Birthday to You", a work which also inspired Stravinsky to write his Greeting Prelude.


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## Gray Bean

I love Bach transcribed for big orchestra! I love Bach in any form. One of my favorites is the Fantasy and a Fugue in c-minor transcribed by Elgar.


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## Aggelos

Gray Bean said:


> I love Bach transcribed for big orchestra! I love Bach in any form. One of my favorites is the Fantasy and a Fugue in c-minor transcribed by Elgar.


Sounds like Elgar's gotten into you. 
Sir Andrew Davis and the BBC SO nailed the Bach-Elgar.


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## Gray Bean

Aggelos said:


> Sounds like Elgar's gotten into you.
> Sir Andrew Davis and the BBC SO nailed the Bach-Elgar.


Glorious! Just glorious! And yes, Elgar is a personal favorite....and I'm not even from England!


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