# Bartok String Quartets Tonality



## Oliver

Which of Bartok's string quartets would you say are the least (traditionally) tonal? Just curious what people's opinions are. I happen to think the middle quartets are more challenging for some reason.


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## tdc

The ones that sound closest to traditional tonality to my ears are 1, 2 and 6. So I suppose we agree on this, except I'm not sure I agree the others are necessarily more _challenging_ - as 4 and 5 seem to be possibly his most popular quartets.

It seems across the board Bartok's middle period was generally his most adventurous, but personally I find some of the late works less accessible ie - Piano Concerto No. 3, and the Viola Concerto (all though the latter was unfinished).


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## Bluecrab

Here's something that's intrigued me for a while. I've seen on several websites that quartet 1 is in A minor. Yet I don't hear a clear tonal center at all—it seems to shift frequently. I know from the sheet music that there is no key signature (which would be consistent with A minor - but also C major), but the score I have gives no key. It simply says "Quator 1 - Bartok, Bela Op. 7." Could anybody who knows more about theory than I (which would be most of you, I'm sure) shed any light on this?

btw, quartet 1 may be my favorite piece of music. I never tire of listening to it.


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## violadude

Bluecrab said:


> Here's something that's intrigued me for a while. I've seen on several websites that quartet 1 is in A minor. Yet I don't hear a clear tonal center at all-it seems to shift frequently. I know from the sheet music that there is no key signature (which would be consistent with A minor - but also C major), but the score I have gives no key. It simply says "Quator 1 - Bartok, Bela Op. 7." Could anybody who knows more about theory than I (which would be most of you, I'm sure) shed any light on this?
> 
> btw, quartet 1 may be my favorite piece of music. I never tire of listening to it.


People who describe the first quartet as being in a minor are most probably referencing the last movement, which has a very strong emphasis on E and A as tonal focal points. If it were thought of as being in a minor, the lowered II is also very important to the piece.


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## Haydnn

Can anyone elaborate as to why Bartok is considered one of the big guys? I am still looking for something that he wrote that is musical. Granted that his stuff is well organized; but that merely means its organized sound. I would just like to listen to something that I can later swizzle. Any suggestions?


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## KenOC

Bartok wrote a fair amount of more traditionally "tonal" music that's quite popular. Here's his Hungarian Sketches.


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## Mandryka

Try the stuff he wrote for US concert audiences, like the Concerto for Orchestra or the third Piano concerto.


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## Haydnn

Thanks for the tip. I'm doing that right now....search itunes, etc... I went to a gallery to see art. It was all "modern" stuff. Looked like something that I would have done when drinking too much. The artist should have drawn bugs-bunny. That way I would have been convinced that she knew how to draw - at least!


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## Bluecrab

Haydnn said:


> Can anyone elaborate as to why Bartok is considered one of the big guys?


Since this thread is about his string quartets, please allow me to ask you: Have you listened to them in their entirety? In particular, have you listened to the entire first quartet?


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## Haydnn

Bluecrab said:


> Since this thread is about his string quartets, please allow me to ask you: Have you listened to them in their entirety? In particular, have you listened to the entire first quartet?


YES, I have! I have listened to a lot of his stuff!!


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## violadude

Haydnn said:


> Can anyone elaborate as to why Bartok is considered one of the big guys? I am still looking for something that he wrote that is musical. Granted that his stuff is well organized; but that merely means its organized sound. I would just like to listen to something that I can later swizzle. Any suggestions?


Most of what Bartok wrote is highly musical. You might need to elaborate on what you think is unmusical about it. Lack of "swizzle" probably doesn't mean much to most people except for you.


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## Haydnn

violadude said:


> Most of what Bartok wrote is highly musical. You might need to elaborate on what you think is unmusical about it. Lack of "swizzle" probably doesn't mean much to most people except for you.


I can't believe I misspelled "whistle". Essentially music has many responsibilities and most of them, in my opinion are moral responsibilities. Organized sound that is merely organized sound that is included in our definition of music. If you can whistle it, it is definitely music.


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## violadude

Haydnn said:


> I can't believe I misspelled "whistle". Essentially music has many responsibilities and most of them, in my opinion are moral responsibilities. Organized sound that is merely organized sound that is included in our definition of music. If you can whistle it, it is definitely music.


That's pretty subjective though. I can think of many Bartok themes (including those found in the string quartets) that I can whistle (or I could, if I could whistle at all).


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## Haydnn

KenOC said:


> Bartok wrote a fair amount of more traditionally "tonal" music that's quite popular. Here's his Hungarian Sketches.


Thanks for this reference. Now I know Bartok could compose. After days of listening to his stuff in my "home office" I finally found a recording that proves he could come up with a tune. Its the divertimento for strings. Now I have to find the cat!


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## violadude

The main theme of the first movement of his second piano concerto is one of my favorite Bartok tunes. I always get it stuck in my head. So catchy!


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## Oliver

Haydnn said:


> Can anyone elaborate as to why Bartok is considered one of the big guys? I am still looking for something that he wrote that is musical. Granted that his stuff is well organized; but that merely means its organized sound. I would just like to listen to something that I can later swizzle. Any suggestions?


String quartet 1 is very musical. I can whistle the theme from string quartet 3, sort of.


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## Haydnn

violadude said:


> The main theme of the first movement of his second piano concerto is one of my favorite Bartok tunes. I always get it stuck in my head. So catchy!


When I was in university a deaf student kept going to live concerts. I asked a lot of things. This girl told me that she loved classical music and always knew if the music was good. She told me that she knew Haydn was good and she told me many other composers were not. She explained that she could discern this from the body language of the musicians. She said that good music makes the musicians tap their feet while bad music makes all of them look like they are in contortions. I think some music is made to hear while other music is made to listen to.


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## violadude

Haydnn said:


> When I was in university a deaf student kept going to live concerts. I asked a lot of things. This girl told me that she loved classical music and always knew if the music was good. She told me that she knew Haydn was good and she told me many other composers were not. She explained that she could discern this from the body language of the musicians. She said that good music makes the musicians tap their feet while bad music makes all of them look like they are in contortions. I think some music is made to hear while other music is made to listen to.


Sounds like nonsense to me. Sorry bro.


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## Albert7

Haydnn said:


> Can anyone elaborate as to why Bartok is considered one of the big guys? I am still looking for something that he wrote that is musical. Granted that his stuff is well organized; but that merely means its organized sound. I would just like to listen to something that I can later swizzle. Any suggestions?


I swizzle a lot to Bartok in fact. The thing is that Bartok introduced some rather brilliant use of offbeat modes to music which combined his interest in traditional Hungarian forms with that of modernist classical music. And he never went 12-tone either which is rather impressive.


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## Albert7

Haydnn said:


> When I was in university a deaf student kept going to live concerts. I asked a lot of things. This girl told me that she loved classical music and always knew if the music was good. She told me that she knew Haydn was good and she told me many other composers were not. She explained that she could discern this from the body language of the musicians. She said that good music makes the musicians tap their feet while bad music makes all of them look like they are in contortions. I think some music is made to hear while other music is made to listen to.


Based on that anecdote, I would be curious to talk music criticism with that type of persona. I haven't heard of such an approach to music interpretation based on sight alone.


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