# Luca Marenzio Appreciation Thread



## cheregi (Jul 16, 2020)

Described by musicologist Alfred Einstein as "the embodiment of artistry in its purest form ... art for art's sake" and "a dreamer and a sensualist for connoisseurs," Luca Marenzio (1553-1599) for me represents the pinnacle of 16th century madrigal writing, poised with superhuman grace on that knife's edge between modal polyphony and common practice tonality: without functional harmony and horizontal structural requirements, but with newfound freedom to use dissonance and full access to both homophonic and contrapuntal textures - the kind of intoxicatingly open field that leaves no room for paint-by-numbers mediocrities, but makes an ideal home for visionaries like Marenzio. Moreso than de Rore, Gesualdo, Monteverdi, etc., Marenzio committed himself absolutely to plumbing the depths and furthest reaches of this one single genre, publishing 23 books of madrigals during his 46-year lifespan, and perhaps as a result his lighter pieces are unmatched in grace and charm while his stormier pieces are unmatched in poignancy of affect, balancing beauty against ugliness in a way that I find much more compelling than, say, Gesualdo's blandly persistent dissonance. Unfortunately there are far fewer recordings of Marenzio than any of the other names above, and really only one CD I find actually satisfying (and which got me so invested in Marenzio in the first place) - here's my current favorite track off it:





Anyway, I'm writing here from the thrill of an exciting new discovery, so I'm sure that soon my admiration for Marenzio will be less hyperbolic and overblown, but in the meantime, any other Marenzio fans? Or discussion of madrigals generally?


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Thanks for starting this thread, you've alerted me to the existence of a major composer seemingly lost in time. I have exactly one Marenzio madrigal in my collection, Se la mia vita sung by the Hilliard Ensemble. I ought to seek out more. That disc you posted sounds good.


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## Ariasexta (Jul 3, 2010)

I have noticed him about 12 years ago, the first impression was the sweetness of his polyphonic representation of the text, but you will have to be a big lover of literature to feel this effect. He is one of the few composers which impacted me upon the first listening experience in vocal music. Even JS Bach did not achieve this on me though. Monteverdis late madrigals are characterized by dramaticality, but his early madrigals are also outstanding in the way of older style. And I do not think Gesualdos chromaticism is bland, rather phantasmagorian, maybe Mr Einstein did not like to read some poems. For the appreciation of early music, it is adviceable to read classical literature also serious literature of our time, in order to acquire the taste for classical ways of expression, which did not use progressive technicalities but metaphysical, mannerist concepts in their constructions of harmony. 

BTW, many modernist critics like to criticize classical aesthetics in leterature, like Bernard Shaw, he said Shakespeare is irresponsibly idealistic, but what a sarcasm, this is exactly the indictment I had made on the western left about 3 years ago, before I happened to read Shaws criticism on Shakespeare.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Martin Erhardt was a pupil of Rebecca Stewart, he worked with her on some recordings and indeed made a recording of Ockeghem's L'homme Arme mass in Stewart's "modal singing" style with Enselble Numisdo.

He set up a group called Quinta Vox to perform madrigals, including one by Marenzio. This CD is well worth a listen.









http://www.erhardt-martin.de/cds_eng.html

The English composer Peter Philips, who was probably a significant influence on Sweelinck, must have liked Marenzio because he made some keyboard fantasias based on madrigals, all available to hear on Siegbert Rampe's outstanding survey, and one on Emer Buckley's recording


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2020)

I have a couple of CDs containing the Madrigals of Marenzio; it's a wonderful genre and he was a gifted composer in a musical period where there was a lot of competition!!


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## cheregi (Jul 16, 2020)

Ariasexta said:


> I have noticed him about 12 years ago, the first impression was the sweetness of his polyphonic representation of the text, but you will have to be a big lover of literature to feel this effect. He is one of the few composers which impacted me upon the first listening experience in vocal music. Even JS Bach did not achieve this on me though. Monteverdis late madrigals are characterized by dramaticality, but his early madrigals are also outstanding in the way of older style. And I do not think Gesualdos chromaticism is bland, rather phantasmagorian, maybe Mr Einstein did not like to read some poems. For the appreciation of early music, it is adviceable to read classical literature also serious literature of our time, in order to acquire the taste for classical ways of expression, which did not use progressive technicalities but metaphysical, mannerist concepts in their constructions of harmony.
> 
> BTW, many modernist critics like to criticize classical aesthetics in leterature, like Bernard Shaw, he said Shakespeare is irresponsibly idealistic, but what a sarcasm, this is exactly the indictment I had made on the western left about 3 years ago, before I happened to read Shaws criticism on Shakespeare.


One thing that excites me about madrigals is that the music is beautiful even without the literary poetic dimension, but that relationship with text makes for yet another angle for a deep appreciation of the work.

As for Gesualdo, I am open to the idea that with time I will grow to appreciate him, and that the textual dimension is more integral for appreciating him...

I am very very interested in attaining a better understanding of this 'metaphysical, mannerist' construction of harmony - please say more!



Mandryka said:


> Martin Erhardt was a pupil of Rebecca Stewart, he worked with her on some recordings and indeed made a recording of Ockeghem's L'homme Arme mass in Stewart's "modal singing" style with Enselble Numisdo.
> 
> He set up a group called Quinta Vox to perform madrigals, including one by Marenzio. This CD is well worth a listen.
> 
> ...


I will certainly listen to all of these - I have enjoyed what I've heard of Martin Erhardt's Ockeghem (if a little confused by the decision to have one/some voices sing the tune's original lyrics rather than the mass?) but hadn't come across the madrigal disc and am very intrigued. I haven't heard anything from Peter Philips but the Gesualdo Consort's Sweelinck Monument recordings have attracted me recently, as - maybe? - one intriguing peak of contrapuntal density in contrast to the Italian style...


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

*La Venexiana* & *La Compagnia del Madrigale* have recorded some nice sets.

View attachment 143966


View attachment 143967


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

cheregi said:


> if a little confused by the decision to have one/some voices sing the tune's original lyrics rather than the mass?


He said to me that you'd have to force the words to sing the mass text in the cantus firmus -- leave out a lot of syllables to place it under the notes. They followed the manuscript in Chigi. The superius is texted completely, the altus and bassus partially, and the tenor only with incipits.

See: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Chig.C.VIII.234

folio 35v and following.

The chanson fits naturally apparently.


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## RICK RIEKERT (Oct 9, 2017)

Qvinta Essençia, a group of singers based in Catalonia, have recently released a recording of Marenzio's madrigals which is outstanding for the beautiful blending and tonal balance of the voices. The group pay careful attention to the poetry and give Marenzio's musical expression of the texts full scope.


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## cheregi (Jul 16, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> He said to me that you'd have to force the words to sing the mass text in the cantus firmus -- leave out a lot of syllables to place it under the notes. They followed the manuscript in Chigi. The superius is texted completely, the altus and bassus partially, and the tenor only with incipits.
> 
> See: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Chig.C.VIII.234
> 
> ...


Oh, fascinating! The idea that renaissance masses involved different texts sung simultaneously also makes sense in the context of medieval motets, like, there's plenty of precedent for such a practice, which strikes modern ears as pretty bizarre, being aesthetically valued.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

cheregi said:


> Oh, fascinating! The idea that renaissance masses involved different texts sung simultaneously also makes sense in the context of medieval motets, like, there's plenty of precedent for such a practice, which strikes modern ears as pretty bizarre, being aesthetically valued.


The Sound and the Fury do a similar thing in their recording of Faugue's L'homme armé mass.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2020)

Mandryka said:


> He said to me that you'd have to force the words to sing the mass text in the cantus firmus -- leave out a lot of syllables to place it under the notes. They followed the manuscript in Chigi. The superius is texted completely, the altus and bassus partially, and the tenor only with incipits.
> 
> See: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Chig.C.VIII.234
> 
> ...


How wonderful to see those images in your link!! Many thanks.


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