# Who's to blame?



## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

Almost all games/sports have decayed into a spectacle in which players/athletes have become overpaid prima donnas, ticket prices have soared, and the quality of performance has gone downwards.
There may still be slight traces of a game/sport left, but it should be obvious that the game/sport is just a filler between commercials.

Yet there are still some eejits that rave about a team or player.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Not much of a sports fan myself, so keep that in mind, but offhand I'd say it's the sporting public in general, and the fact that they've shown that they're willing to pay to watch play (what the market will bear, and all). The cure is radical, like chemotherapy: boycott. Utter boycott. Do not go to a stadium, park, court, rink, track, or pitch. Do not watch on media; dry up those ad dollars. Don't buy The Sporting News, or any suchlike publication. High demand, high price. Low or no demand, low price. Now, I'm not an economist either, but I do know that once you're hooked, you'll pay through the nose to get your fix. And why did we ever think it was a good idea to make multimillionaire demigods out of people who can handle a ball really, really well? Seriously?


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I'm no sports fan but they tell me minor league baseball is relatively inexpensive and fun to watch. Family-friendly.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Dorsetmike said:


> Almost all games/sports have decayed into a spectacle in which players/athletes have become overpaid prima donnas, ticket prices have soared, and the quality of performance has gone downwards.
> There may still be slight traces of a game/sport left, but it should be obvious that the game/sport is just a filler between commercials.
> 
> Yet there are still some eejits that rave about a team or player.


I don't agree with the above comments, especially about how performance quality has declined. On the contrary, quality of performance keeps going up; it's so obvious that I wonder what sports Dorsetmike is talking about.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> Not much of a sports fan myself, so keep that in mind, but offhand I'd say it's the sporting public in general, and the fact that they've shown that they're willing to pay to watch play (what the market will bear, and all). The cure is radical, like chemotherapy: boycott. Utter boycott. Do not go to a stadium, park, court, rink, track, or pitch.


You can forget the boycott dream - won't happen.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Dorsetmike said:


> Almost all games/sports have decayed into a spectacle in which players/athletes have become overpaid prima donnas, ticket prices have soared, and the quality of performance has gone downwards.
> There may still be slight traces of a game/sport left, but it should be obvious that the game/sport is just a filler between commercials.
> 
> Yet there are still some eejits that rave about a team or player.


I still follow sports but this is why I no long care much about being a team fan. It's the quality of play and coaching that I care about and if my local team is too arrogant (Warriors) or badly managed (49ers) I don't see much need to care about them. I grew up in states that care just as much about college sports and I prefer to watch anybody amateur or pro who tries to raise their game to a higher level.

As for pay or taking command of one's career, who they play for, etc. I think players are entitled to negotiate whatever they can get like anybody else in any other career. On this matter players are right to feel they are treated as livestock, just as anybody else in a job with no long-term future, even if they are paid many magnitudes more. The fact that the public and media etc are willing to put out this kind of money is no different from Hollywood to someone like myself who doesn't care about most Hollywood products.

So if your team is not making you happy, or a favorite player annoys you with their lack of maturity, just find another to follow who is more likely to shake up the game in a good way.

Right now I'm looking forward to more Mayfield, Murray, and Mahones. But I also know any of their stars could fall rather quickly in this day and age of such players with raw brilliant talent... the unexpected is what keeps it interesting...

In relation to Hollywood, I just hope we don't see Tom Brady become the Gloria Swanson of the NFL...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

I agree that the payments of multi-multi millions to individual players and the resulting huge rise in ticket prices plus the number of commercials has gotten sadly out-of-hand. However, IMO, the skill and performances of players has gone up, at least in the sports I watch, particularly (American) football and baseball (perhaps not so much in my beloved sport hockey from childhood -not sure why).


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

philoctetes said:


> I still follow sports but this is why I no long care much about being a team fan. It's the quality of play and coaching that I care about and if my local team is too arrogant (Warriors) or *badly managed (49ers)*...


The jury's still out. Shanahan inherited a mess too big to fix quickly in 2017. In 2018, his new hi-paid RB starter got hurt for the entire season. His QB was injured for the season in the 3rd game. Virtually one or more of his top 3 receivers were injured at some point. However, he has a healthy good-looking squad going into 2019 and, barring major injuries, there won't be any excuses for not doing well this season.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

DaveM said:


> The jury's still out. Shanahan inherited a mess too big to fix quickly in 2017. In 2018, his new hi-paid RB starter got hurt for the entire season. His QB was injured for the season in the 3rd game. Virtually one or more of his top 3 receivers were injured at some point. However, he has a healthy good-looking squad going into 2019 and, barring major injuries, there won't be any excuses for not doing well this season.


I'm tired of coaches who play with their offenses like some kind of high school science project. It's like they can't evaluate how to use their talent until a star gets carried off the field... and even a good team loses confidence game after game...

When a team has a lot of injuries, there is a reason, such as poor allocation of talent or poor conditioning...


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

philoctetes said:


> I'm tired of coaches who play with their offenses like some kind of high school science project. It's like they can't evaluate how to use their talent until a star gets carried off the field... and even a good team loses confidence game after game...
> 
> When a team has a lot of injuries, there is a reason, such as poor allocation of talent or poor conditioning...


I don't know of anyone in the football community who blames Kyle Shanahan for last year's injuries.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

DaveM said:


> I don't know of anyone in the football community who blames Kyle Shanahan for last year's injuries.


More often than not, injuries are just random happenings. Concerning the SF quarterback, Garappolo gets injured every year. His body just can't handle NFL football. So it turns out that New England did itself a favor by getting rid of him.


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## DaveM (Jun 29, 2015)

Bulldog said:


> More often than not, injuries are just random happenings. Concerning the SF quarterback, Garappolo gets injured every year. His body just can't handle NFL football. So it turns out that New England did itself a favor by getting rid of him.


It didn't help that, at full tilt, he threw himself at the sideline trying to make the down, blowing his ACL.


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## ldiat (Jan 27, 2016)

i will write who is to blame ---TV---AD SPONS0RS-- when the pittsburgh stillers were winning super bowls in the 70's they won it with DEFENSE. low scores. boring football. they changed the rules and now high scores and lots of action. Baseball who wants to watch a 1-0 game? so in the 60's they lowered the mound a few feet and BAM more home runs-more scoring, now fun to watch on TV. hockey: for years lots of clutch and grabbing. then the refs started to call the holding calls(clutch) and started to call grabbing call(interference). the moved the net closer to the blue line.better for slap shots for d men, reduced goalie pads a bit.. now more skating and scoring. and do not bring up 99 w/ all his goals and points. he played a lot of bad teams when he played


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

DaveM said:


> It didn't help that, at full tilt, he threw himself at the sideline trying to make the down, blowing his ACL.


Yep, he was physically incapable of zigging down the sideline and avoid a hit at the same time. That's how I remember it. Hard to watch. I recall thinking he was running too much before that. This is an example of bad play calling IMO. It's my opinion and others can think what they want.

I would like to see the 9ers use Mullens more and see if he can stop overthrowing receivers. I think he deserves a chance to prove he's not another Kaepernick.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

If we’re resentful over the rewards for sports stars versus classical musicians, the gap is easy enough to close.

First, stage playoffs, orchestra against orchestra. Include soloist contests, best fielded string quartets, and so forth.

Televise – I’m sure the public channels will be early adapters, the others will follow.

But that’s not enough. The final touch – gambling! Odds-making, in-hall and out-of-hall wagers. Let the big money come in, rumors of fixes, of conductors throwing contests, and so forth. Scandals and notoriety, occasional ejections and maybe even jail terms.

Yes, classical music can and will be a big-money sport!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Strange Magic said:


> I'm no sports fan but they tell me minor league baseball is relatively inexpensive and fun to watch. Family-friendly.


The NY Mets triple A farm team is one mile from my house. They have a beautiful stadium and I can go watch a game for eleven dollars.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Dorsetmike said:


> Almost all games/sports have decayed into a spectacle in which players/athletes have become overpaid prima donnas, ticket prices have soared, and the quality of performance has gone downwards.
> There may still be slight traces of a game/sport left, but it should be obvious that the game/sport is just a filler between commercials.
> 
> Yet there are still some eejits that rave about a team or player.


This complaint sounds vaguely familiar. Say, tell you what, let's reach into the vault of treasured history shall we?

"These modern ballplayers care about nothing but money. They don't care about their team, or their city, or their fans. In my day they were different. I mean that they don't play with the same kinds of feelings or for the same objects they used to."

_American Chronicle of Sports and Pastimes _ - January 9, *1868*


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

Strange Magic said:


> I'm no sports fan but they tell me minor league baseball is relatively inexpensive and fun to watch. Family-friendly.


I read baseball is the only ball game in which scoring is not done with the ball.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

geralmar said:


> I read baseball is the only ball game in which scoring is not done with the ball.


Interesting food for speculation! I cannot quickly think of a counterexample. Perhaps the home run is the exception in baseball.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2020)

geralmar said:


> I read baseball is the only ball game in which scoring is not done with the ball.


Cricket? I don't know all the rules. Does the bowler get points for hitting the wicket(?)?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

With regards to top-flight football - at least in this country - the integrity of the sport has been compromised by a four-headed hydra:


Agents for manipulating gullible young players, especially the younger ones.

The Football Association for not coming down hard on ways of cheating such as diving and feigning injury.

Sky Sports for bending the game to their will in terms of encouraging changes in tournament formats and making their own TV scheduling rules by virtue of throwing ludicrous amounts of money about.

The fans themselves for moaning about this and that yet put up with being treated like mugs year after year.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

DrMike said:


> Cricket? I don't know all the rules. Does the bowler get points for hitting the wicket(?)?


No - it just means that the batsman is out. Unless he delivers a no-ball, which is when a bowler oversteps the mark from where he is allowed to release the ball before actually releasing it.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2020)

elgars ghost said:


> No - it just means that the batsman is out. Unless he delivers a no-ball, which is when a bowler oversteps the mark from where he is allowed to release the ball before actually releasing it.


Well there you go then - another ball sport that doesn't require the ball for scoring.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

A ball can score on overthrows, though - if a ball is hit to a fielder and then that fielder shies at the wicket and misses the batsmen can score if another fielder can't retrieve the ball in time to prevent a run between the wickets being made. If the ball goes all the way to the boundary on an overthrow it counts as four runs.


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## Dorsetmike (Sep 26, 2018)

elgars ghost said:


> With regards to top-flight football - at least in this country - the integrity of the sport has been compromised by a four-headed hydra:
> 
> Agents for manipulating gullible young players, especially the younger ones.
> 
> ...


That's the sort of thing I was referring to in my original post; cricket is just as bad, TV dictating game formats and timing to keep the interest of the couch potatoes.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

elgars ghost said:


> With regards to top-flight football - at least in this country - the integrity of the sport has been compromised by a four-headed hydra:
> 
> Agents for manipulating gullible young players, especially the younger ones.
> 
> ...


Interesting -referring to your last point - that there are more fan-led issues at present in the Bundesliga, where loathing for RB Leipzig, and loathing for the owner of Hoffenheim, have been boiling over as fan action. Those two teams do not play by the perceived rules of club ownership. Passions are somewhat high on that.....


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Bulldog said:


> I don't agree with the above comments, especially about how performance quality has declined. On the contrary, quality of performance keeps going up; it's so obvious that I wonder what sports Dorsetmike is talking about.


Concerning basketball, if the refs blew the whistle every time these players walked or palmed the ball, the game would never get finished. I can enjoy a good game in any sport but I'd never pay the high ticket prices to see a game in person. But a summer night out to see a local triple A baseball game is a very affordable indulgence. As Strange Magic has already mentioned, it won't put much of a dent in your wallet.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

Dorsetmike said:


> That's the sort of thing I was referring to in my original post; cricket is just as bad, TV dictating game formats and timing to keep the interest of the couch potatoes.


Well, I think the concept of a 100-ball competition is a joke - just when I thought that T20 could take the sport down to its possible lowest common denominator. It wouldn't be so bad if T20 got fans into the longer game but many now just settle for that, and that is where the crazy money is going.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

CnC Bartok said:


> Interesting -referring to your last point - that there are more fan-led issues at present in the Bundesliga, where loathing for RB Leipzig, and loathing for the owner of Hoffenheim, have been boiling over as fan action. Those two teams do not play by the perceived rules of club ownership. Passions are somewhat high on that.....


I think the Leipzig situation is the worse of the two - the city already have the Lokomotive club so perhaps if there was going to be any money thrown around it should have been at them. I think there is something unpleasant not just about fast-tracking an artificially-created club to the top of the tree but also having the owner/sponsor as a prominent part of the club name - at least PSV Eindhoven have always reduced their Philips connection to an initial).

Of course, Red Bull are no strangers to getting their claws (or should I say hooves) into football as they have totally rebranded what used to be the Austria Salzburg club, alienating a significant portion of their fan-base as a result. As regards the Hoffenheim situation, one day the bubble will burst because it is only one man pumping in money rather than a whole corporation - once Hopp dies or withdraws his support they will surely begin a long decline.


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## TMHeimer (Dec 19, 2019)

I agree with those basically saying it's the fans' fault for continuing to follow the big sports. Young people (that is, fans who don't remember the 60s and even 70s regarding players' salaries) just talk about the star (and other millionaire) players as if that's just the way it always was. As if the money aspect is either irrelevant or simply not important. I do agree that today's atheletes are superior to the NBAers of 1965--I'd work that hard too with millions at stake.
But, can't blame the players for taking the money owners are willing to pay. And, can't go back to baseball's reserve clause (Curt Flood, etc.), as that would seem unconstitutional.
Think on this-- player's salaries began to jump in the 70s with Moses Malone signing the first multi-year ONE million dollar contract in 1981 (Dave Winfield in MLB). So, circa 1976, the Sixers were paying Dr. J a record $600K per year, whereas today an owner pays someone what 120 MILLION over --- years. Would seem the 1976 owners had one great thing going......


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## TMHeimer (Dec 19, 2019)

I went to Shea Stadium in 1987 with my mother with Sr. Citizen tickets for $2. Nosebleed section of course. This was the year after they won the '86 Series. My late freind had season tix to Shea for $14,000. When they built Citi Field they jumped to $24,000 in one leap. He dumped them.


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