# Ring Challenge - Rheingold - Discussion thread



## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Earlier today I posted a thread with this idea...

_Well it's not really a challenge but that seems to be one of the current buzzwords so perhaps it will catch more attention As I mentioned in a Wagner thread, I am intrigued by the fact that the vast majority of preferred Ring recordings (and Wagner in general) are at least 50 years old. Now I understand that there were some great Wagner singers back then and, probably, much fewer today, but I do feel that there are quite a few very good performances which are much more recent.

I find myself wondering if some of the opinions are from (for want of a better term) received wisdom, and that newer performances can't possibly be as good. So, what I propose to do is to post links to live performances done since 1980 but with no information about provenance and to let the participants listen and comment. As I said, all will be live, not studio, although they could either staged or concert performances. As a matter of logistics and not overloading my servers, I will not post the links here, but will send them via email._

As we have quite a few who are interested in participating, I have uploaded the first performance, _Rheingold_, for your consideration and am in the process of PM'ing the link to everyone. If you would like to add yourself to the list and haven't already done so, please PM me.

This thread is a place for you to post your comments, thoughts, etc., etc. Just one thing, if you are certain that you are already familiar with this performance, please do not spoil the fun for others by posting it here - instead send me a PM and when I do post the performance details, I will acknowledge you. Beyond that, speculate all you want!! My plan is to post the details on Oct. 27 (or earlier if appropriate.) Meanwhile versions of the other 3 operas will be uploaded in the coming days.

Have fun


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## Don Fatale (Aug 31, 2009)

Emailing large files is so uncool 

Could you not put them on Youtube, or perhaps Dropbox? Time to learn a new skill.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

_"...and not overloading my servers, I will not post the links here, but will send them [links] via email"_


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

First, a confession - I recognized the performance after a bit of initial confusion.

This is a very, very fine Rheingold performance (and the sound, BTW, is superb). The conducting is fluent and confident, but not the sort that calls attention to itself, and the conductor doesn't overpower the singers. And most of the singing is excellent.

That said, Rheingold is, by far, the easiest of the RING operas to cast. The opera is relatively short, and none of the roles make unreasonable demands on a singer's range or stamina. In addition, many of the roles - especially Alberich, Loge, Mime, and the two giants rely more on vocal *character* than on vocal quality per se. Several of the singers here seem exactly right for their roles, but I have a hard time imagining them in parts that require more standard operatic voices. The Wotan is decent. Frankly, it's not a first rate voice, and it spreads under pressure, but he's musical and interesting to listen to.

The Alberich has a voice and manner that's perfectly suited to Alberich - but I have trouble imagining him in virtually any other role, except the usual roles that Alberichs often sing, like Telramund and Klingsor. The Loge and Mime are, well, voices suited to singing Loge and Mime - and not much else, in my opinion. The Fasolt has a good quality voice, but the Fafner really doesn't. It's a dark, somewhat unsteady, and cavernous voice that fits Fafner well, but again, it's not a voice that I'd want to hear in a role that requires any semblance of vocal beauty. The women are all fine, but I don't find any of them particularly memorable from a vocal point of view.

But while there are certainly individual performances on other recordings that I prefer to those here, on balance this performance is every bit as good as, or better than the "classic" recordings (especially the Solti, a recording whose appeal has always eluded me).


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

My computer tells me that it can't find the server. Am I missing some essential equipment?


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> My computer tells me that it can't find the server. Am I missing some essential equipment?


copy paste the displayed link into your browser instead of clicking on the link. For some reason, the link address dropped the colon in the url.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

howlingfantods said:


> copy paste the displayed link into your browser instead of clicking on the link. For some reason, the link address dropped the colon in the url.


Thanks! ............


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Ooops ... Mea culpa


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

So far I can't make the link work. I've tried pasting it into both Chrome and Firefox.


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## interestedin (Jan 10, 2016)

Start with "www.", delete the http. At least thats what made it work here....


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

thoughts

Conductor and orchestra - well played modern Wagner, light, fleet, bouncy, transparent textures. I thought it might be Janowski at first, but there's not enough stage noise to be one of his Bayreuth recordings and it doesn't sound like his Pentatone or Dresden recordings. Plus I think you get a stronger woodwind palette with Janowski than you get here. I think this conductor hits a little harder on the peaks and instrumental interludes.

The Alberich is fine but not great. Sounds kind of Slavic. Fair amount of ham here, but it's not as gruesome as some. One pretty good maiden, one middling, and one pretty poor. I think the Wellgunde is the one I like? I can never keep Wellgunde and Woglinde straight.

Wotan is good, but croons rather a lot. Sounds kind of like a liederist trying to be interesting, I kind of wish he'd just sing out, but he does sound a trifle wobbly when he does. The Fricka is good. She sounds bright, like a soprano with a low extension instead of a mezzo. Good vocal actress, I like her. The Freia is good too. 

The Loge on the other hand.... it's a typical Loge casting, weedy wavery thin tenor, I don't know why this is the casting standard. It's such a relief when impresarios cast a real singer like Windgassen for the role. Same for the Mime. The giants are ok, but neither are super impressive or imposing and one is wobbly. Very good Erda, kind of subpar Donner.

Overall, it's a good one, but the singing performances don't rise to an exceptional level. The Fricka, Freia and Erda are the highlights for me, but not that super exceptional. I like the conductor but it's a modern reading without that primordial mysterious brooding essence that Furtwangler is able to evoke or the incisive dramatic urgency that I cherish so much from Bohm. It's the type of literal late 20th century reading that shows you the virtues of the score and nothing more. I'd want to hear the rest of the Cycle, though.


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## howlingfantods (Jul 27, 2015)

wkasimer said:


> But while there are certainly individual performances on other recordings that I prefer to those here, on balance this performance is every bit as good as, or better than the "classic" recordings (especially the Solti, a recording whose appeal has always eluded me).


If by "classic" recordings, you mean Solti and Karajan, I agree with you there. Not if you mean Furtwangler, Bohm, Krauss, Keilberth, Knappertsbusch.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

Have any of the other participants been able to listen to this or want to? It would be great to see more comments.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

I seem to be lagging behind and bringing up the rear, but I listened to the Rheingold and act one of Walkuere today and should finish Walkuere tomorrow.

I loved this Rheingold. If all you need for a performance of Trovatore to be a success is the four greatest opera singers in the world, then Rheingold only needs a great conductor and that's what you get here. The challenge with this opera is to make sure it doesn't just sound like an aural list of leitmotives rather than one continuous flow of ever changing moods. It is certainly the latter that we get with this one, the playing is slow enough to give the _Renunciation_ motive pathos, _Valhalla_ nobility and the opening grows organically into a wonderful ebb of sound. The high points (such as the curse and final scene) are all handled superbly and this stands alongside Keilberth's versions (from 53 and 55) as one of the best. I prefer Neidlinger as Alberich, but apart from that the rest of the cast are all fine and make enough of their roles to keep them interesting.

What a great start to the challenge!

N.


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## mountmccabe (May 1, 2013)

I thought I figured out what performance this was, but after further listening, I'm pretty sure my guess was wrong.

My thoughts, regardless: 

The orchestra sounds gorgeous. The conducting is very good. There's good weight, and great flow to everything. The orchestra brings for real wonder, making this very compelling.

Alberich is great, a rich and evocative voice. Wotan sounds really familiar, but I can't place who he is. He starts off sounding more calm and gentle than I'd prefer. He gets more aggressive as the opera continues, but he's never quite as commanding as I'd like.

I also not sold on Loge; he doesn't have the magic to make much of his scene 2 narration.


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## bharbeke (Mar 4, 2013)

My Rheingold knowledge is pretty limited. I like some of what I am hearing. The part from 15:30-16:00 is a dramatic high point of the first hour. I'd place it above Solti and below Karajan (my two points of reference).


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## Bonetan (Dec 22, 2016)

Becca, when are the performance details coming for the 4 operas? I'm very curious!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

There are still some folks who haven't had a chance to listen and/or post so I am waiting so as not to spoil  it for them!


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