# Do you write music by hand?



## Kopachris

That is, do you initially (or even later) write an autograph score with pen/pencil and paper, or do you almost exclusively use notation software for composition? Because I use LilyPond for my sheet music, I find it much faster and easier to write the score by hand to begin with.


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## kv466

Neither, actually...the few compositions I have are all recorded on audio tape and otherwise in me brain...I actually did enter one I 'wrote' about fifteen years ago into some old software that spit out exactly what I performed and if I remember right it was mistake free but I've never had the need to write it down or have it transcribed...if I wrote more I'm sure that I would and would probably like the same...to compose right at the keys,...play some passages that I have 'written' already and have them scored...never been the best reader/writer


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## Aramis

I enjoy it a lot so I do it as often as it makes sense. I love to watch my manuscripts later, lying in disorder on the desk. If composer's desk doesn't look like mess with: empty cups, broken pencils and a lot of musical manuscripts... know... that there is... something... wrong...


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## Manxfeeder

I always start by hand. I need to feel writer's cramp; it's not art if there is no suffering.


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## Klavierspieler

I first write it out by hand, and then I put it into Lilypond so that other people can read it...


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## Il_Penseroso

I always do it by hand, even for the staves, I'd rather draw them by myself, to be sure of the spaces between and the total format of a page ...


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## Polednice

I don't, but I often wonder if I'd prefer it.

Whenever I set about writing something like a poem or a short story, I always use pen and paper because I find it distracting and uncomfortable to be looking at a computer screen when doing something like that. So it makes me wonder if I'd be more 'comfortably creative' writing my music out in pencil, but the time and effort that I save by using something like Sibelius seems worth the trade-off.


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## ricardo_jvc6

The fewest songs I've been working was by hand, later after in composition programs. I have been working on a simple Mazurka by hand with 6/4 since the original is 3/4. I'm not very keen on my writing, sometimes I don't even understand what I wrote. Thats why I use a composition program all the times, to keep me in organization.


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## Krummhorn

For me, it's easier and quicker to use a software driven notation program.


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## Rasa

I always go for software. It's quicker.


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## TresPicos

I use software (PrintMusic), so I can copy/paste and transpose a lot, and play it back easier.


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## Klavierspieler

My composition teacher was big on good handwriting, so it's quicker for me to do it by hand.


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## soundandfury

I almost invariably work in MuseScore for notation. However, it's difficult to explore themes in notation software, so I tend to improvise around on the Azino (a synthesiser I wrote that's driven through a qwerty keyboard) until I have an idea what I want to do. Much more space-efficient than a piano (or even a MIDI keyboard).


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## Kopachris

soundandfury said:


> I almost invariably work in MuseScore for notation. However, it's difficult to explore themes in notation software, so I tend to improvise around on the Azino (a synthesiser I wrote that's driven through a qwerty keyboard) until I have an idea what I want to do. Much more space-efficient than a piano (or even a MIDI keyboard).


Huh. The Azino looks interesting; when will it available for download? Can it be easily adapted for other instruments? Is it JACK-capable?


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## An Die Freude

I use notation software (MuseScore) as I don't have a keyboard/piano, so I have no idea what it will sound like unless i write on the software.


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## soundandfury

Kopachris said:


> Huh. The Azino looks interesting; when will it available for download? Can it be easily adapted for other instruments? Is it JACK-capable?


The Azino is now available to download from the page linked above. Some instructions are included, but getting it to work cleanly is sometimes a black art. (I have no idea whether the Windows build works at all, but - screw Windows users! 
Since all its sound generation is algorithmic (as opposed to sample-based), adapting it to other instruments is exceedingly tricky. I have, however, produced various registrations to mimic as far as possible the sounds of the General MIDI instruments which, when combined with envelope shaping and my MIDI library, produces a MIDI synthesiser that, while clearly based on an organ, can at least give the feel of other instruments. There are a few demonstrations of this on the page.
It's not JACK-capable: its audio output is handled entirely by SDL. However, it can also write WAV audio to stdout (-o switch), and you might be able to wire that into JACK, but you'd have to mangle the source first (rip out the SDL sound, add some fflush()es, and do something about timing).

It's basically a clumsy hack, and should not be considered "reliable" or "user-friendly" or even "well-written".


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## Kopachris

soundandfury said:


> The Azino is now available to download from the page linked above. Some instructions are included, but getting it to work cleanly is sometimes a black art. (I have no idea whether the Windows build works at all, but - screw Windows users!
> Since all its sound generation is algorithmic (as opposed to sample-based), adapting it to other instruments is exceedingly tricky. I have, however, produced various registrations to mimic as far as possible the sounds of the General MIDI instruments which, when combined with envelope shaping and my MIDI library, produces a MIDI synthesiser that, while clearly based on an organ, can at least give the feel of other instruments. There are a few demonstrations of this on the page.
> It's not JACK-capable: its audio output is handled entirely by SDL. However, it can also write WAV audio to stdout (-o switch), and you might be able to wire that into JACK, but you'd have to mangle the source first (rip out the SDL sound, add some fflush()es, and do something about timing).
> 
> It's basically a clumsy hack, and should not be considered "reliable" or "user-friendly" or even "well-written".


Okay, thank you for the information. (And for the record, "user-friendly" should refer to how friendly the user is with computers  I happen to have no trouble with rough programs as long as I have the right information.)


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## soundandfury

Kopachris said:


> Okay, thank you for the information. (And for the record, "user-friendly" should refer to how friendly the user is with computers  I happen to have no trouble with rough programs as long as I have the right information.)


If you record anything nice with it, hand me a link 
I don't place much value on the usual kind of user-friendliness either. Some of my favourite interfaces are either harshly barren, like *ed*, or programmatic, like all the shell tools


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## violadude

I usually write it by hand first because with software what I can do is limited to what I know how to put into the program.


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## Nix

Manxfeeder said:


> I always start by hand. I need to feel writer's cramp; it's not art if there is no suffering.


Using Sibelius is suffering enough for me.


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## Kopachris

Nix said:


> Using Sibelius is suffering enough for me.


LilyPond, on the other hand, is pure joy to work with.


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## Bachonacid

I find it really uncomfortable to write by hand, because I'm not a pianist and my aural training is not so good. But I'm getting used to it, and I find that the stuff (although I've never finished anything by this method) I write by hand/ear is much better than what I compose with the help of computer playback, but it's really irritating and time consuming for me. 
Another thing I've noticed since I've been involved in many student-premieres, is that composing students who write by hand produce always much better stuff than the ones with their mac-laptops and sibelius software. I think writing by hand really forces the composer to think harder and more precise about the music they're composing, making them develop their composing skills faster.


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## Ian

Hi folks... new member here!

I used to write by hand... for many years - but that was before I had access to a decent computer. For the past 6 or so years I've used software - PrintMusic at first, but now Finale. The learning curve for the latter is pretty steep, but since I don't do anything too weird (at least, I hope not) I haven't had to delve into the manual too often.

In comparing my earlier hand-written music to the newer music, I daresay my newer stuff is better - but that's more because I think I've become better at composing than in the past. I really like the software's ability to transpose immediately and respace things on the staves. Plus, it gives me the opportunity to try out phrases on different instruments or combinations of instruments... something I couldn't do when working by hand.

While I have an electronic piano with a MIDI in/output, I don't play piano really at all. Entering notes manually on the GUI is certainly time consuming but, at the same time, satisfying!

Ian


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## kv466

I usually lay in bed when I'm really sick and sweating and rant off the notation to my enemy while he tells me to slow down and then starts humming with me.


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## Polednice

Bachonacid said:


> I find it really uncomfortable to write by hand, because I'm not a pianist and my aural training is not so good. But I'm getting used to it, and I find that the stuff (although I've never finished anything by this method) I write by hand/ear is much better than what I compose with the help of computer playback, but it's really irritating and time consuming for me.
> Another thing I've noticed since I've been involved in many student-premieres, is that composing students who write by hand produce always much better stuff than the ones with their mac-laptops and sibelius software. I think writing by hand really forces the composer to think harder and more precise about the music they're composing, making them develop their composing skills faster.


Another issue with using computer software - at least in my experience - is that, if you rely on the program's playback feature, you can often act on very bad feedback. Conceptually, the way you've written your piece may be perfectly fine (no problems here if it's hand-written), but if the program plays it back and it sounds crap through your speakers, you may end up changing it when, in actual fact, it would sound great on an actual instrument.


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## mleghorn

I almost never write by hand. I use the piano roll view in Sonar (by Cakewalk). It's a graphical view of the notes, with time being the horizontal axis, and pitch being the vertical axis. The different tracks (i.e. instruments) are color-coded. In this view it's very easy to manipulate notes, i.e. copy & paste, transpose, stretch, shrink.


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## Guest

Kopachris said:


> That is, do you initially (or even later) write an autograph score with pen/pencil and paper, or do you almost exclusively use notation software for composition? Because I use LilyPond for my sheet music, I find it much faster and easier to write the score by hand to begin with.


Only got here via another recent thread that directs me here. I'd just like to say that I really find by hand as quick as by Finale (don't have Sibelius, that's for my next birthday present). I tend to keep Finale for writing out teaching exercises (for neat copies) and by hand for any 'original' stuff I might be doing (such as my recently uncompleted 14th symphony in F# minor which I have been busy *not* writing before I subject it to critical assessment by Herr PetrB).


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## Kcenter

I like your style. If you ever find that software that spit it out correctly let me know- I've had trouble finding a good one.


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## Guest

Kcenter said:


> I like your style. If you ever find that software that spit it out correctly let me know- I've had trouble finding a good one.


Well, thank you! I've found that all these notation softwares are great for neatness and 'four or three square music', but if you want to notate something even half approaching the 'Ferneyhough' touch then forget it, by hand is the only way to go. Wonder what his copyist charges, by the way?


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## drfaustus

Hello! I'm a actually composer. I hope we can speak about Contemporary Music. I always wrote music by hand but my last score for orchestra (A3) is damaging my eyes. Now, I write with Finale.


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## Tomposer

Personally I believe the more pertinent question is "what do you do to get your sketching done quickly?"

I have found that, although I am a stickler for detail, it's important to have an _initial _phase where your hands are "untied" and you aren't stymied by any needless concerns. People who find they produce too many unfinished works are, I believe, investing too much time fiddling with detail during the gestational stage of the composition; it's easy to talk yourself down at this point, but it's very important to get a draft done before doing too much intensive evaluation, in my opinion. It's like an improvisational phase, almost. That almost unconscious, unlimbered, inspired kinda work should always be allowed to just flow, irrespective of what you decide later.

This is where the medium becomes important. I find that sketching on paper often helps with this, although these days I can work so quickly with Finale I sometimes allow myself to sketch in it. The point is, getting it from your head to the medium as directly as possible, at least at first.

All in my opinion...


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## Guest

Tomposer said:


> Personally I believe the more pertinent question is "what do you do to get your sketching done quickly?" [...]


Yes, one's own 'shorthand' is important. I really don't do a lot of original stuff these days, but if I were to restart in a serious way I would adopt an old habit when hitting on an idea : diagrams or schematics (where exact pitches are unimportant), some brief written words for further thought (instrumentation, ideas for development ...) , lots of morphologies, and so on.


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## Rehydration

Software is much more convenient, though I might write out some of my original solo instrument pieces on manuscript paper.


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## Novelette

Rehydration said:


> Software is much more convenient, though I might write out some of my original solo instrument pieces on manuscript paper.


More convenient, yes. Personally, I find myself a bit more self-conscious when I'm using software [Finale, in my case] to compose the initial drafts. I tend to become overly concerned about correctness and intelligible enharmonic spelling, at the expense of naturalness and clear expressiveness.

The works that I find most enduringly appealing are the ones that I wrote quickly and spontaneously. My favorite work of all is a concert overture that I composed when I was 14: it has the most disturbingly amateurish orchestration, but it has such a charming freshness to it that I can't bring myself to revise or delete it.

:tiphat:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Novelette said:


> More convenient, yes. Personally, I find myself a bit more self-conscious when I'm using software [Finale, in my case] to compose the initial drafts. I tend to become overly concerned about correctness and intelligible enharmonic spelling, at the expense of naturalness and clear expressiveness.
> 
> The works that I find most enduringly appealing are the ones that I wrote quickly and spontaneously. My favorite work of all is a concert overture that I composed when I was 14: it has the most disturbingly amateurish orchestration, but it has such a charming freshness to it that I can't bring myself to revise or delete it.
> 
> :tiphat:


Send it to me, I'll reorchestrate it. :devil:


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## juergen

Is blank music paper still sold at all?


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## Yardrax

juergen said:


> Is blank music paper still sold at all?


If you live in England you can buy books of blank sheet music at WH Smiths.


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## juergen

A book of blank sheet music? Hmm, I hope you don't confuse that with the scores of Cage's piece 4'33'' :lol:


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## Kopachris

juergen said:


> Is blank music paper still sold at all?


Yes. Search Amazon for "manuscript paper." It's plenty easy to print your own at home, though, and then you can customize it as far as spacing and number of staves goes.


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