# Granville Bantock



## Mirror Image

Granville Ransome Bantock[1] was born in London. He was intended by his parents (his father was a Scottish doctor)[2] for the Indian Civil Service but was compulsively drawn into the musical world. His first teacher was Dr Gordon Saunders at Trinity College of Music. Later he studied with Frederick Corder at the Royal Academy of Music. There he won the Macfarren Prize in the first year of its operation. Early conducting engagements took him around the world with a musical comedy troupe. He founded a music magazine, The New Quarterly Music Review[2], but this lasted only a few years. In 1897, he became conductor at the New Brighton Tower concerts[2], where he pioneered the works of Joseph Holbrooke, Frederic Hymen Cowen, Charles Steggall, Edward German, Hubert Parry, Charles Villiers Stanford, Corder and others, frequently devoting whole concerts to a single composer. He was also conductor of the Liverpool Orchestral Society with which he premièred Delius's Brigg Fair on 18 January 1908. He became Principal of the Birmingham and Midland Institute school of music in 1900[2]. He was a close friend of fellow composer Havergal Brian. He was Peyton Professor of Music at the University of Birmingham from 1908 to 1934 (in which post he succeeded Sir Edward Elgar)[2][3]. In 1934, he was elected Chairman of the Corporation of Trinity College of Music in London. He was knighted in 1930[2]. His students included the conductor and composer Anthony Bernard.

He was influential in the founding of the City of Birmingham orchestra (later the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra), whose first performance in September 1920 was of his overture Saul. Bantock's Hebridean Symphony was recorded by the CBO on 28 January 1928 at Riley Hall, Constitution Hill, Birmingham. This acoustic version conducted by Adrian Boult was never released.

His music was influenced by folk song of the Hebrides (as in the 1915 Hebridean Symphony) and the works of Richard Wagner. Many of his works have an "exotic" element, including the choral epic Omar Khayyám (1906-09). Among his other better-known works are the overture The Pierrot of the Minute (1908) and the Pagan Symphony (1928). Many of his works have been commercially recorded since the early 1990s.
A Bantock Society was established shortly after the composer's death in London. Its first president was Jean Sibelius, a composer whose music was championed by Bantock during the early years of the century. Sibelius dedicated his Third Symphony to Bantock.

Edward Elgar dedicated the second of his Pomp and Circumstance Marches to Bantock.

[Article taken from Wikipedia]

This is yet another sadly neglected composer. He wrote some beautiful music. Very much in the late-Romantic tradition.

I bought a 6-CD set on Hyperion with Vernon Handley and the Royal Philharmonic Orch. tonight of his orchestral works. I look forward to digging into his music.


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## Guest

Another one that is unfamiliar, but sounds interesting.
Are you going to cover all wiki composers ?


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Another one that is unfamiliar, but sounds interesting.
> Are you going to cover all wiki composers ?


I think you would enjoy Bantock's music.


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## Bach

Only Mirror would create a thread about a composer called Granville..


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## Elgarian

I keep trying with Bantock. I particularly keep trying because the box set of Vernon Handley's recordings of Bantock is so spectacular, and it's always tempting to take it off the shelf and mess about with it.










But Bantock has never become a favourite. The Celtic symphony is a nice thing, and all of them have their moments - but they're moments that hint at a greatness that I feel is never actually reached; atmospheric, but not compelling. I get the feeling that much of his music needs a bit of judicious editing - whittling down to about half the length.

But one never knows what insight might lie around the corner. So I keep trying with him from time to time, and reminding myself how much fun the box set is.


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## bassClef

It does look nice and exotic !

I only have some downloads - I like The Witch of Atlas most I think, Celtic Symphony is quite good too.


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## Mirror Image

Elgarian said:


> I keep trying with Bantock. I particularly keep trying because the box set of Vernon Handley's recordings of Bantock is so spectacular, and it's always tempting to take it off the shelf and mess about with it.
> 
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> But Bantock has never become a favourite. The Celtic symphony is a nice thing, and all of them have their moments - but they're moments that hint at a greatness that I feel is never actually reached; atmospheric, but not compelling. I get the feeling that much of his music needs a bit of judicious editing - whittling down to about half the length.
> 
> But one never knows what insight might lie around the corner. So I keep trying with him from time to time, and reminding myself how much fun the box set is.


Yes, that's the box set I ordered. I look forward to getting it. I've been wanting to hear Bantock's music for months.

I think one important thing to keep in mind is he was a composer who trying to do different things with music. He is certainly not an uneducated composer. Academics aside, I believe composers like Bantock need a chance to grow on you. I keep saying the same thing about Langgaard's music.

That's good you keep trying. For some people, the music clicks automatically for others it takes months or even years to fully appreciate a composer, so yes, keep trying.


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## Guest

Elgarian said:


> I keep trying with Bantock. I get the feeling that much of his music needs a bit of judicious editing - whittling down to about half the length.


I feel the same about Wagner so your comments are enough to make me a tad cautious


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> I feel the same about Wagner so your comments are enough to make me a tad cautious


The same thing has been said about Mahler and Bruckner, so Elgarian's opinion of Bantock doesn't mean that much to me. I like long-scale, epic works.


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> The same thing has been said about Mahler and Bruckner, .


I must admit that I have not heard those comments aimed at Mahler, and the only comments in a similar vein regarding Bruckner is [you either love or hate him] I am not sure that I would agree with that comment either


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> I must admit that I have not heard those comments aimed at Mahler, and the only comments in a similar vein regarding Bruckner is [you either love or hate him] I am not sure that I would agree with that comment either


Actually, one of the main criticisms of Bruckner and Mahler are they're works are too long. I happily disagree, because as I mentioned, I love epic, long works.


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## Elgarian

Andante said:


> I feel the same about Wagner so your comments are enough to make me a tad cautious


The Celtic Symphony might be worth trying, though, Andante. That's a much more compact enterprise.


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> I must admit that I have not heard those comments aimed at Mahler, and the only comments in a similar vein regarding Bruckner is [you either love or hate him] I am not sure that I would agree with that comment either


This could be said about any composer, Andante. What you like and don't like is purely subjective. You either enjoy a composer's work or you do not.


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## starry

Mirror Image said:


> This could be said about any composer, Andante. What you like and don't like is purely subjective. You either enjoy a composer's work or you do not.


But maybe it's more realistic to say you might like *some* of a composer's work but not all of it. I wouldn't say of any composer that I like everything that they did. Some people may like long epic works but only when they feel they have enough interesting musical ideas spread through them (such as Bruckner's 7th, or Mahler's 4th or maybe 1st or 2nd).


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> Actually, one of the main criticisms of Bruckner and Mahler are they're works are too long. I happily disagree, because as I mentioned, I love epic, long works.


I think it is not the length that some find daunting as much as the composers ability to hold the listeners interest after all Beethoven 9 and Schubert 9 at approx 1hr do not attract this criticism and are comparable to some of Mahler in length



Mirror Image said:


> This could be said about any composer, Andante. What you like and don't like is purely subjective. You either enjoy a composer's work or you do not.


Not quite the same thing IMHO, it is not the same as love/hate there are some composers that I can take or leave and some that I love or hate so I find myself in agreement with starry


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## Guest

Elgarian said:


> The Celtic Symphony might be worth trying, though, Andante. That's a much more compact enterprise.


Thanks, I will make the effort


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Thanks, I will make the effort


It's not an "effort" to listen to gorgeous music, especially when it's conducted by one of the best English conductors of our time: Vernon Handley.


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## Guest

Mirror Image, That is a colloquialism, not to be taken literally


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Mirror Image, That is a colloquialism, not to be taken literally


Sorry, but the English have some funny expressions. I'm an American, so I'm not used to English figures of speech...forgive me.


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## Mirror Image

Getting back on topic...

Bantock's music is hardly ever performed. It's surprising that Hyperion box set is even available to the public. That's one of the great things about Handley. He performed a lot of obscure English composers like Bantock, Bax, Arnold, Simpson, etc. The same could be said of Richard Hickox. I mean Hickox recorded of whole cycle of Rubbra. That, in itself, is a miracle.

The composer's music is obviously the most important thing, but to have had conductors like Hickox, Handley, Thomson, etc. who championed these composer's work is what is great as well. Without them, we wouldn't be listening to Bantock, Rubbra, or Bax.


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> Sorry, but the English have some funny expressions. I'm an American, so I'm not used to English figures of speech...forgive me.


Nothing at all to forgive, it shows how different English can be in various countries, I actually find it fascinating but it can lead to misunderstandings


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> It's not an "effort" to listen to gorgeous music


It can be, MI, it can be. I was at a performance of Don Carlos recently (music that I'm sure many people would describe as gorgeous) but which for me was three and a half hours of arm-gnawing tedium. Gosh, I was struggling, and the effort required seemed beyond me, at times.

I'd far prefer to listen to Bantock than Verdi, I should add, hastily.


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## starry

'Gorgeous' music is a bit of a vague term. It seems to suggest very nicely or exotically orchestrated music. That's all very fine but it hardly makes a piece substantial. It's like with a lot of modern popular music and how people love a song because of how it sounds (because of the production or the vocal) rather than because the musical ideas are interesting. The orchestration is the clothing of a piece, the substance of it is the musical ideas and how they are structured through a work.


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## starry

Mirror Image said:


> Sorry, but the English have some funny expressions. I'm an American, so I'm not used to English figures of speech...forgive me.


You got the wrong end of the stick


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## Mirror Image

I listened to the first movement of Bantock's "Celtic Symphony" and let me just say...I'm hooked. I disagree with anything negative said here about his music. This is remarkable music.


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## Mirror Image

starry said:


> But maybe it's more realistic to say you might like *some* of a composer's work but not all of it. I wouldn't say of any composer that I like everything that they did. Some people may like long epic works but only when they feel they have enough interesting musical ideas spread through them (such as Bruckner's 7th, or Mahler's 4th or maybe 1st or 2nd).


I agree no composer wrote 100% good music all the time. I mean look at Tchaikovsky or Ravel. They wrote some absolute garbage. "Bolero" is one of the worst pieces of music I've heard from any composer and the "1812 Overture" is hack piece of music. I ALWAYS hit skip if I these pieces start playing.


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> I listened to the first movement of Bantock's "Celtic Symphony" and let me just say...I'm hooked. I disagree with anything negative said here about his music. This is remarkable music.


Oddly enough, this discussion spurred me on to open up the Bantock Bonanza Box again, yesterday. I went for the Celtic symphony yet again (as I tend to do as a 'starter' when there's been a gap); once more I waited for something to strike me as outstanding, but while I admit that it does have its attractive moments, and there's a distinct atmosphere that is notably both Bantockian and Celtic, nothing raises a shiver; nothing makes me feel I'm in the presence of greatness. It's pleasant enough, I don't deny that; and unlike his other stuff, it doesn't drag on too long. I let the disc play on into the _Witch of Atlas_, but gradually lost interest and switched it off. So now is not the time to proceed further I think. Oh well. There will be another time. The Bantock Boxful will see to that.


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## Mirror Image

Elgarian said:


> Oddly enough, this discussion spurred me on to open up the Bantock Bonanza Box again, yesterday. I went for the Celtic symphony yet again (as I tend to do as a 'starter' when there's been a gap); once more I waited for something to strike me as outstanding, but while I admit that it does have its attractive moments, and there's a distinct atmosphere that is notably both Bantockian and Celtic, nothing raises a shiver; nothing makes me feel I'm in the presence of greatness. It's pleasant enough, I don't deny that; and unlike his other stuff, it doesn't drag on too long. I let the disc play on into the _Witch of Atlas_, but gradually lost interest and switched it off. So now is not the time to proceed further I think. Oh well. There will be another time. The Bantock Boxful will see to that.


To be honest, there's a lot of Elgar that doesn't do much for either. I find most of his choral works to be quite boring. Symphonies 1 & 2, "Enigma Variations," "In The South," and the concertos are really the only pieces that have struck a chord with me.

Bantock's music isn't for everybody. It doesn't really matter to me what people think though in the end, you either like a piece of music or you don't.

I remember you discussing that you're not too keen on composers like Debussy, Ravel, and Delius. I find "impressionism" or whatever you want to call it is some of the most gorgeous music ever produced. Perhaps that's why I dig Vaughan Williams and Bax so much because they borrowed elements of this style and incorporated them into their music.

Bantock from what I've heard so far seems to be coming from a very different angle altogether.


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> To be honest, there's a lot of Elgar that doesn't do much for either. I find most of his choral works to be quite boring.


Although I loved Elgar's music from day one, I spent about 20 years thinking that his choral works were quite boring; then one day I discovered that they weren't any longer. This sort of thing has happened to me so many times with so many composers and so many painters, that I now just adopt a 'wait and see approach'. So with Bantock. I've been listening to Bantock, on and off, for about three years now; no time at all, really, in the great scheme of things ....



> Symphonies 1 & 2, "Enigma Variations," "In The South," and the concertos are really the only pieces that have struck a chord with me.


But they are among his greatest works. I've been listening to the violin concerto for over 40 years and still haven't got anywhere near the bottom of it.



> Bantock's music isn't for everybody.


No, but I have good reason to suppose that it might eventually be for me; I do have a certain predisposition towards English music: I just haven't found anyone to match up to RVW and Elgar so far (although I'm fond of Parry, too).



> I remember you discussing that you're not too keen on composers like Debussy, Ravel, and Delius. I find "impressionism" or whatever you want to call it is some of the most gorgeous music ever produced. Perhaps that's why I dig Vaughan Williams and Bax so much because they borrowed elements of this style and incorporated them into their music.


I easily lose a sense of the structure of a piece of music - I seem to have a poor 'musical memory' - and I think this has something to do with why I struggle with those impressionistic works that you enjoy so much. I lose track of where I am; what this bit here and now is connected to; where it's going; whether the end is in sight. I go into the labyrinth and can't find my way out. (One of the great joys of discovering Handel recently is that I always know exactly where I am, and can let the drama carry me along through the music, with a clear structure to hold it all together.)



> Bantock from what I've heard so far seems to be coming from a very different angle altogether.


Well, I do know that Elgar himself regarded Bantock very highly.


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## Mirror Image

Elgarian said:


> Although I loved Elgar's music from day one, I spent about 20 years thinking that his choral works were quite boring; then one day I discovered that they weren't any longer. This sort of thing has happened to me so many times with so many composers and so many painters, that I now just adopt a 'wait and see approach'. So with Bantock. I've been listening to Bantock, on and off, for about three years now; no time at all, really, in the great scheme of things ....
> 
> But they are among his greatest works. I've been listening to the violin concerto for over 40 years and still haven't got anywhere near the bottom of it.
> 
> No, but I have good reason to suppose that it might eventually be for me; I do have a certain predisposition towards English music: I just haven't found anyone to match up to RVW and Elgar so far (although I'm fond of Parry, too).
> 
> I easily lose a sense of the structure of a piece of music - I seem to have a poor 'musical memory' - and I think this has something to do with why I struggle with those impressionistic works that you enjoy so much. I lose track of where I am; what this bit here and now is connected to; where it's going; whether the end is in sight. I go into the labyrinth and can't find my way out. (One of the great joys of discovering Handel recently is that I always know exactly where I am, and can let the drama carry me along through the music, with a clear structure to hold it all together.)
> 
> Well, I do know that Elgar himself regarded Bantock very highly.


I think it's important to note that there are a lot of people who seem to be baffled by impressionism, not because of the lack of structure, it most definitely has structure, but because it doesn't go where listener otherwise would think it goes and that's the beauty of it. The uncertainty in this music makes for great surprises and discoveries.

I think it's interesting that many people on this very forum don't enjoy this music. Coming from a jazz background it is some of the first classical music to really resonate with me. I guess I just love those major 7th, minor 11th, etc. chord voicings these composers used in much of their works. Not to mention the modal quality of their music.


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## starry

I much prefer Elgar's first symphony to the second (which, in comparison, I find disappointing).


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## Mirror Image

I just can't believe Elgarian doesn't like this set with Vernon Handley and the Royal Philharmonic. I mean I know everybody feels and likes different things, but there's just so much beautiful music in that set.

I mean if you don't "get it" Elgarian, then why do you keep trying? I think there's really not much to get. Bantock composed beautiful music that has drama, beauty, heartbreak, everything that I love about music. He's not Elgar...no, no he's not, but who is? Music isn't a competition, so I'm happy and thankful for Handley's visionary work on this marvelous set of a very neglected composer.

I will also say that I don't even know what you're talking about when you call Bantock's music long and in need of editing. I think 30 minutes is a reasonable amount of time for a piece of classical music.

Here are a few playing times from this box set:

A Celtic Symphony - 20:04 (this is short for a symphony, Elgarian)
The Witch of Atlas - 14:52
Pagan Symphony - 35:45
The Helena Variations - 19:25

These are pretty standard times for an orchestral work, Elgarian. Just say you're not a fan and move on...


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> I just can't believe Elgarian doesn't like this set
> I mean if you don't "get it" Elgarian, then why do you keep trying?
> :


Probably for the same reason that I keep working at modern composers (I hate to admit this in front of Elgarian) but I actually like some of them now


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> I just can't believe Elgarian doesn't like this set with Vernon Handley and the Royal Philharmonic. I mean I know everybody feels and likes different things, but there's just so much beautiful music in that set.
> 
> I mean if you don't "get it" Elgarian, then why do you keep trying?


I've explained this several times before, MI. A lifetime of experience with the arts tells me that I'm changing, developing, and growing all the time. Again and again, I found that something I'd once written off as 'not for me' or even 'rubbish' would actually make an impact some time - perhaps years - later. In the end I just got fed up with my own negative prejudices and refused to attach much weight to them any more. So now, all my judgements are provisional. If I can't understand or enjoy something I just set it aside to try again some other time. I don't slam the door on it - I know myself too well to trust that impulse. If I had 'stopped trying' as you recommend, I would never have grown to love Elgar's choral music, French opera, almost the whole of baroque, Handel in particular, abstract art, etc etc.



> I think there's really not much to get. Bantock composed beautiful music that has drama, beauty, heartbreak, everything that I love about music. He's not Elgar...no, no he's not, but who is? Music isn't a competition, so I'm happy and thankful for Handley's visionary work on this marvelous set of a very neglected composer.


Well that's marvellous. You _should_ be happy and thankful to a composer and conductor who are bringing you so much pleasure, surely? And indeed, except in so far as he's a British late Romantic, Bantock is nothing like Elgar. He's his own man, very distinctively so.



> I will also say that I don't even know what you're talking about when you call Bantock's music long and in need of editing. I think 30 minutes is a reasonable amount of time for a piece of classical music.
> Here are a few playing times from this box set:
> A Celtic Symphony - 20:04 (this is short for a symphony, Elgarian)
> The Witch of Atlas - 14:52
> Pagan Symphony - 35:45
> The Helena Variations - 19:25


If you look back along this thread you'll see that I recommended the Celtic symphony to Andante _because_ it was so concise. And indeed I find that particular CD in the series by far the most easily digestible of them all, for me - because the pieces are short. My comments about the editing were an attempt to express the kind of unease I have about the music in general - it has a tendency to seem long-winded to me, regardless of how long it actually is, and I'm aware that such a comment may say more about me than about the music.

You seem to think I'm knocking Bantock. I'm not. I've always had the impression that he writes the kind of music that I would expect to be able to enjoy, even though somehow I don't, very much (so far). I think the fact that I keep on listening to it at intervals in the hope of making progress is rather a compliment to him, actually.



> Just say you're not a fan and move on...


But why? I don't live in such a black and white world as to think my opinion today is definitive. I'm not entirely unresponsive to his music, and he's an interesting composer, surely worth persisting with? I own that inspiring box of CDs. Why should I not keep listening to it when the inclination takes me? Why close the door, when all my experience tells me that closing doors is foolish?


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## Elgarian

Andante said:


> ... I keep working at modern composers (I hate to admit this in front of Elgarian) but I actually like some of them now


Oh, you won't get any discouragement from me, Andante. I think that's great, even though I can't follow you right now - and again, it illustrates how persistence can pay off, doesn't it? It's not a matter of banging your head against a wall (I'm not an advocate of that, by any means) - it's just a matter of trying to remain open to possible opportunities, as well as to changes that take place within ourselves.


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## Elgarian

This conversation reminded me of another neglected Briton - William Wallace, from the same generation of composers as Elgar and Bantock. The two most notable CDs available are these:

















You can hear samples at the Hyperion website:
Creation Symphony and Symphonic Poems

The reason I mention this is because if I were to be in the business of putting composers into pigeon holes, I'd be inclined to put Bantock and Wallace into the same one (or at least, neighbouring ones). They are distinctive, but unmistakably British late Romantic. If you don't know Wallace, MI, my guess is that you'll find a lot to like.

My own attitude to him is perhaps a little more favourable than my response to Bantock - though that might have something to do with there being less of him. But the Creation Symphony (which I've been listening to again today) has some fine moments in it - including some slightly watered-down but appealing Wagnerisms. I admit that I tend to snooze off after about 30 minutes with another 15 minutes still to go, but as with Bantock, I think that may be more to do with my general drift away from Romanticism, these days, than with Wallace in particular.


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## Mirror Image

Anyway, back to Bantock's music:

I find him quite enjoyable I'm on the 3rd CD of the set and it's been a great sonic journey for me. Anyone interested in late-Romantic English composers should definitely checkout out this set by Handley and the RPO.


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## Guest

Elgarian said:


> The Celtic Symphony might be worth trying, though, Andante. That's a much more compact enterprise.


I have just obtained this very CD Elgarian, will listen to it over the next couple of nights and report back


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## handlebar

Andante said:


> I have just obtained this very CD Elgarian, will listen to it over the next couple of nights and report back


That was the first Bantock CD i ever had purchased. A true delight. Now I own the Hyperion series along with the Dutton historical CD.

Jim


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## Mirror Image

For me, it's hard to match the magic of the "Celtic Symphony." This piece stays in my head long after it's over. While it's true, he's certainly no Elgar or Vaughan Williams, I do enjoy some of his works and judge them purely on their own merits as I do with all music.


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> For me, it's hard to match the magic of the "Celtic Symphony."


I certainly think it's the easiest, most attractive route into Bantock, and I think Andante will enjoy it (as, indeed, do I).


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## Mirror Image

Elgarian said:


> I certainly think it's the easiest, most attractive route into Bantock, and I think Andante will enjoy it (as, indeed, do I).


Anyone a fan of English late-Romanticism will love Bantock's "A Celtic Symphony." It's straightforward, lyrical, has great themes, and has a great sense of structure. I also enjoy the harmonies found in that piece. They kind of have an "ancient" feel to them if that makes any sense at all.


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## Elgarian

Mirror Image said:


> They kind of have an "ancient" feel to them if that makes any sense at all.


Yes, I think that's a good way of describing it. He's connected to some deep roots, there, and keeps a fairly tight hold on them.


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## Guest

I have played the CD a couple of times and report thus:
Not wishing to offend I found the music easily accessible, but I listened to the complete CD in one sitting I think that was a mistake, I can see how his music would appeal to some But I though it was a tad dreary and did not hold my attention in fact it nearly sent me to sleep!
It is very lyrical and well formed but so many slow movements, in sonata form these are usually sandwiched but one slow movement after another is a bit much! I am reminded of Haydn’s ‘Seven last words’ I listened again last night and it had improved or was it me? I found that I preferred The Witch of Atlas. Perhaps this composer will grow on me but not at the moment.


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## Elgarian

Andante said:


> I listened to the complete CD in one sitting I think that was a mistake


You may be right. If you'd stopped after the Celtic Symphony, do you think you'd have come away with a more favourable and less dreary impression? I'm thinking, for example, of the driving rhythms at the beginning of the 2nd section (I mean track 2), with the strings washing in like waves driving against a shore - quite exhilarating - and then that lovely rocking of strings that follows. Similarly, the beginning of the 4th section has quite a feeling of Sibelius about it, very brisk and breezy; the 5th has a lovely lyrical celtic lilt to it, with a kind of ache, a longing for the Isles (not too sure about the harps). If all of Bantock was as good as this, I'd be a great fan.


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## Guest

Different things for different people, I did listen to the Celtic again and it did sound a bit better but I still preferred the Witch.


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## emiellucifuge

*Sir Granville Bantock*

This late romantic british composer was known as a conductor during his life and quite a prestigious one. He also composed, hundreds of works mainly orchestral. Incidental music, Ballets, Symphonies, Concertos and Tone poems, he has merely hundreds and hundreds of pieces.

I really like the Celtic Symphony and The Witch of Atlas.

Everything has a very british or (celtic) feel to it yet feels quite mysterious.
Vernon Handley recorded the complete orchestral works.


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## Mirror Image

Good to see you enjoy Bantock's music. It is, indeed, very good, especially "A Celtic Symphony," which is beautiful in it's simplicity. I especially love the 5th movement, which is the last movement of the symphony. That movement never fails to give me a sense of fulfillness. That harmony and melody in that movement sounds ancient to me like I'm a knight on horseback riding my way back from rescuing a princess from an evil king or a mythological creature of some kind.


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## Guest

Mirror Image said:


> Good to see you enjoy Bantock's music. It is, indeed, very good, especially "A Celtic Symphony," which is beautiful in it's simplicity. I especially love the 5th movement, which is the last movement of the symphony. That movement never fails to give me a sense of fulfillness. That harmony and melody in that movement sounds ancient to me like I'm a knight on horseback riding my way back from rescuing a princess from an evil king or a mythological creature of some kind.


Well, I can't agree with you and Elgarian, I don't rate him at all, sorry thats just my taste, I did try.


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## Mirror Image

Andante said:


> Well, I can't agree with you and Elgarian, I don't rate him at all, sorry thats just my taste, I did try.


It's cool, Andante. Not everybody likes the same things. At least you made an effort.


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## Headphone Hermit

I rather like Sir Granville Bantock's music (and his general eccentricity too!) although I admit he isn't to everybody's taste and there are times when he goes on a trifle too long ( no-one has yet mentioned another of Vernon Handley's projects, the 3CD set of the Ruba'iyat of Omar Khayyam set to song by Bantock on Chandos - I have to admit that I need a bit more time to appreciate all of that  ) but there are plenty of enjoyable things in the Hyperion set that is mentioned above .... if you like English late-romantic music.


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## Richannes Wrahms

His symphonies are more serenades than symphonies, his orchestration is outstanding but the material is rather bland and scarce. Still worth listening.


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## Neo Romanza

Richannes Wrahms said:


> His symphonies are more serenades than symphonies, his orchestration is outstanding but the material is rather bland and scarce. Still worth listening.


I would agree that there's a lack of a strong dramatic narrative in Bantock's symphonies no question about it, but taken as music without the dubious title, it's often quite beautiful and makes me easily forget that I'm listening to a 'symphony.'


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## maestro267

One of my favourite tone poems is Bantock's Thalaba the Destroyer. It's a "heroic" work in the vein of Tchaikovsky's Manfred and Gliére's Ilya Muromets Symphonies, with which it shares the key of B minor.


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## Ingélou

Richannes Wrahms said:


> His symphonies are more serenades than symphonies, his orchestration is outstanding but the material is rather bland and scarce. Still worth listening.


I don't find his material 'bland' so much as dreamy & mystical. I am finding out about this composer, and liking what I hear - thanks to TalkClassical in general, and this Guestbook in particular.


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## Guest

Just got my first Bantock CD, in part by poring over the above comments and recommendations:









This is really enjoyable music, sadly neglected, but maybe due for some love in the coming era of stylistic tolerance and pluralism.

Lots of nice reviews too. Here's some quoted on ArkivMusic.com:

...the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performs magnificetly from beginning to end, coupling elegance, eloquence, passion, and poser with Hyperion's fastidious sound in a way that compels admiration from the listener for conductor, ensemble and composer alike. Handley's is the definitive version of the Hebridean Symphony, outstripping that available on Naxos in every regard, and with the other works on this disc to further commend it, this release sails effortlessly into port as the newest inductee into Fanfare's Classical Hall of Fame. (Fanfare, USA)

'The best Bantock record I have ever heard' (CDReview)

'Magnificently recorded and performed. When audiences are crying out for 'melodious music' how can such music as this have been ignored for so long?' (Gramophone)

'Ce disque superbe ravira les mélomanes romantiques curieux' (Répertoire, France)

'A towering classic, as important as a landmark in the rediscovery of British music as it is a monument to the technique of orchestral recording. Music, performance, recorded sound and notes are all superb' (International Record Review)

'Superb' (Amazon.co.uk)


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## Headphone Hermit

^^^ I'm very happy for you! I think there are some wonderful moments in the music of Bantock - there used to be a 5-CD box set on Hyperion (including the disc you have) that you might like to consider buying.

I tried the CD you bought first, liked it so much that I bought the box-set and gave the space CD to a friend as an unexpected gift


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## Triplets

I've got those recordings, although they wee packaged differently. Also there was a Symphonic Poem devoted to Sappho.
The music is highly charged with color and some eroticism, sort of a mix of Stanford and Scriabin


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## Headphone Hermit

There was even a song by Bantock played on Radio 3 this morning - unfortunately I was trying to weave through queuing traffic so didn't catch the title, but I think it was from Sappho and the presenter mentioned that there was a Bantock House museum near Wolverhampton - interesting!


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## Becca

I have heard music by most of the late 19th century/early 20th generation of British composers and I would put Bantock alongside Elgar as the most interesting and unique voices. The first piece by Bantock that I got to know as the Pagan Symphony which is still one of my favourites of that era ... or maybe my favourite is the Hebridean Symphony .... or perhaps ...


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## KenOC

I'll spice up this long-quiescent thread with a new Hurwitz video titled, "Granville Bantock--Bax Without Brains?"


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## JAS

This video is a good example of when Hurwitz is trying to be amusing, but mostly failing, and making it worse by going on and on with a joke that really isn't very funny. His Bantockia gag goes on longer than the trumpet part, and to less effect.


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## elgar's ghost

I've warmed to Bantock's soundworld far more over the last year or so after a sustained period of indifference towards it. Before I would have found the opulent side of it a bit cringeworthy, but I just meekly surrender now. Especially recommended for those who can't get enough of Glière's _Ilya Muromets_, I'd have thought.


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## elgar's ghost

I can't watch Hurwitz at the best of times, not least because his lazy eyelid creeps me out - it seems like he's winking at me.


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## JAS

I think that I have actually warmed up a bit more to Hurwitz's videos. You pretty much know what you are going to get, in terms of tone and snarkiness, and he certainly knows a lot about available recordings. (I am not sure how any human being has the time to have listened to all of the ones he shows, let alone those he chose not to show.) He tends to be very much at the extremes in his positions, either truly loathing a performance or praising it as the greatest thing ever. (His jokes often fall flat, and he tends to extend the least of them to an unpardonable length, as if that will help.) I saw one video where he reminisces about his father, which was quite touching. (And I had not connected him to WJHU, which was another local mostly classical radio station that quite unexpected went to an all talk format many years ago, much to the anger of many of us who had supported it as a classical and jazz station.)


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## MusicSybarite

The work of his that really grabs me is _A Celtic Symphony_. In my view, it has some of the most gorgeous and lovely tunes I've ever heard from a string orchestra composition. The music just melts my heart, unbearably beautiful.


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## CnC Bartok

MusicSybarite said:


> The work of his that really grabs me is _A Celtic Symphony_. In my view, it has some of the most gorgeous and lovely tunes I've ever heard from a string orchestra composition. The music just melts my heart, unbearably beautiful.


Couldn't agree more, it's a truly beautiful piece. I cannot understand why it's not more popular, although I can see why it rarely gets performed. Anyone got SIX harpists ready for hire?!


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## MusicSybarite

CnC Bartok said:


> Couldn't agree more, it's a truly beautiful piece. I cannot understand why it's not more popular, although I can see why it rarely gets performed. *Anyone got SIX harpists ready for hire?!*


Yes, that's the biggest issue for sure.


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