# King Crimson appreciation thread



## FPwtc

Who loves King Crimson and what are your favourite albums, line ups, players and eras?

I bloody love Lizard, so strange and out of time, nothing sounds like this in rock. Probably their most classical and also jazzy, the only word for it is "rococo".

Next Larks' Tongues in Aspic, one of my top 3 or 4 rock albums, again nothing sounds like this crazy blend of classical, funk, blues and world music.

Unfortunately I intensely dislike their 80's and 90's work.


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## Simon Moon

Huge fan here! I am a fan of progressive music in general. 

Their best are 'ITCOTCK' up through 'Red'. My favorite are 'Larks'Tongue', 'Starless', 'Red'. 

I love 'Discipline', but none of the other 80's releases. Love the constantly shifting times that Fripp and Belew are playing, over the 17/16 that Bruf is playing on the title track.

'The Power to Believe' from 2000 and 'ConstruKction of Light' from 2003 are great release, IMO.


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## elgar's ghost

If any band deserve a thread of their own then it's King Crimson. I've always been impressed with the way that the group - or rather Robert Fripp with his vision - can fiddle with the dials and keep making challenging music rather than resting on their laurels.

My favourite era is the Larks'/Starless/Red albums. However, I was bloody impressed with the way Fripp brought the group back in 1981 after a six-year absence with a different instrumental configuration and played music which was comparatively more streamlined than before (some of the guitar play of Fripp and Belew sounded like quiet-storm minimalism compared to the angular shards-of-glass guitar work that came before) but never descended into the more dubious aspects of mass-market appeal - a direction taken by '70s contemporaries such as Genesis and Yes in order to make themselves sound 'relevant' during that decade of MTV and over-production.


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## Guest

Another Larks/Starless/Red head here. I saw them on the Islands tour (dire) and pre Discipline (fantastic) when they hadn 't reverted to KC but were calling themselves Discipline.
Fracture and Starless remain two of my favourite pieces of music by anyone anywhere.

What set me off on to music was my brother bringing home a debut album and putting it on for me to hear. I was pole-axed by 21st Century Schizoid Man. So began my life long love affair.


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## Heliogabo

I enjoy all of King Crimson´s eras. But I ´ll always in debt with The Court of the Crimson King, wich opened my ears and mind.


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## MrTortoise

Yet another Crimson/Fripp fan here. My favorites are:

Starless and Bible Black
Larks Tounges in Aspic
Red
In the Court of the Crimson King
Discipline


I love all era's of KC!


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## Dr Johnson

Very much a fan ever since I heard 21st Century Schizoid Man on the Island sampler, Nice Enough To Eat when I was 14.

The first album I bought was Islands which I still like, particularly Sailor's Tale. But like others above my favourite incarnation is the Larks' Tongues/Starless/Red era. I also like Fripp's solo album Exposure. I like Discipline but gave up with Beat. I bought THRAK years ago but seldom listen to it.

There is a cover version of Schizoid Man by a Japanese band on YouToob which is worth a look, as is the version by The Crimson Jazz Trio who are well worth checking out.


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## Azol

Lizard, Red and Discipline for me!


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## starthrower

I binged on KC about 5-6 years ago, but am now burned out. Their later stuff is quite heavy, dark, and brutal at times. The DVD of the concert in Japan circa 2003 is very good. And the live album Vroom Vroom is a good representation of their 80s/90s stuff.


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## FPwtc

I always found with KC that the first album opened up a vast number of possibilities that they took several years to fully assimilate. For instance I think Lizard and Islands are a direct follow on from the more jazzy songs like I Talk To The Wind off the first album and the more gothic stuff like the song The Court of the Crimson King while Larks/Starless and Red are a culmination of the path started by 21st Century Schizoid Man.

I was so blown away by Schizoid that I have always found the rest of Court a bit anticlimactic, particularly as I came to it wanting guitar fireworks and Schizoid is really the only tune with a guitar solo (although I suppose you can call Moonchild a solo). I got more into it over the years but I remember being thrilled when I heard Larks Part I and II and thinking "ah yes they have remembered Schizoid man".

Saying that I love their more ornate side, I know it is sacrilege but I just think that side of KC was better explored on Lizard.


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## Ingélou

Heliogabo said:


> ...I ´ll always in debt with The Court of the Crimson King, wich opened my ears and mind.


Love it! When I started out teaching English back in the day, I used to use the lyrics from 'The Court of the Crimson King' in my poetry lessons. Groovy!


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## TurnaboutVox

Yup, me too. "In the Court of the Crimson King" was one of the best things my best mate and I pilfered from his older sister's album collection around 1975!


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## Guest

Bugger, they're about to play UK dates.

I don't even know who's in the band !!!

http://www.dgmlive.com/tour.htm

Three drummers??!!


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## Simon Moon

dogen said:


> Bugger, they're about to play UK dates.
> 
> I don't even know who's in the band !!!
> 
> http://www.dgmlive.com/tour.htm
> 
> Three drummers??!!


Some them in LA earlier this year.

Great show. Definitely worth seeing, if you have the chance.

But 3 drummers is a bit overkill. They had 2 drummers in the early 2000's.

The current lineup is:

Fripp
Jakko Jakszyk (guitar and vocals) - has played in several projects with KC alumni. Nice voice and talented guitarist.
Mel Collins (sax and flute) - long history with KC and other prog notables.
Tony Levin (bass and Chapman Stick)
Pat Mastelotto (drums) - played in several other KC lineups.
Gavin Harrison (drums) - played with Porcupine Tree, many other artists of various genres)
Bill Rieflin (mostly electronic drums) - played with REM and Nine Inch Nails


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## Guest

I'm weighing it up. It's a great opportunity but then I've had and ditched all their albums post Red!
(Trivia : Bill was in Ministry too)


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## elgar's ghost

dogen said:


> Bugger, they're about to play UK dates.
> 
> I don't even know who's in the band !!!
> http://www.dgmlive.com/tour.htm
> 
> View attachment 72279


Let's see - there's Mr. White, Mr. Brown, Mr. Blue, Mr. Orange...


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## Guest

I think I have everything they did. Might be one or two I'm missing. I saw them during the Discipline tour with Adrian Belew, Tony Levin and Bill Bruford. Crimson were essential to my musical awakening at 11. 1969 I'm waiting for my older brother to leave for classes or his job or whatever because he had a stereo in his room with the only FM radio in the house. I had a transistor hand held because I was still listening to AM Top 40 stuff but I felt like I had to explore, branch out. My brother would leave and I would go to his room and turn on the stereo and listen to WABX--a true underground station in those days. I'd hear all kinds of stuff--Eddie Harris's "Compared to What" and like that. Even the groups I was familiar with on AM were playing stuff in FM I'd never heard before. That was when I first heard "When I Was Young" and I thought, "That's the Animals???" That was never played on AM that I remember.

So one day my brother leaves and I turn on his stereo and ABX starts playing "In the Court of the Crimson King." That blew me away. First of all, it was like 9 minutes!!! Nobody does 9 minute songs!!! Then it had all these changes and a period of silence and then it got loud again with Michael Giles going nuts on the drums! I was hooked! So on my 12th birthday, my mom asks what I want for a present and I said I wanted this King Crimson album and so she drove me down to this record store and I bought it. I played the damn grooves off the thing. I know every note of every song on that album--even all of "Moonchild."

I started smoking pot by then and then went onto psychotropics in my early teens listening to White Noise, Beefheart, ELP, Switched-On Bach, Hawkwind, Renaissance, Yes, Moody Blues you name it. Those were great times--those early days of musical exploration. This was all before I even got to high school when I began exploring blues, jazz, early Kraftwerk and avant-gard. Those were great times for me. But throughout, I remained a total Crimson fan. I bought every album as they came out.

My favorite cut, I suppose, is off "Earthbound"--a live one-off album that Fripp disowns. It is pretty bad--cutting into the middles of songs and cutting out before the song ends--but the last piece is intact--"Groon." This was a bop jazz piece that Charlie Parker wouldn't have disowned with some great sax by Mel Collins and drums by Ian Wallace. There are several versions of "Groon" available but this one has the drums treated through a synthesizer part of the way through the drum solo and then ends with a weird ear-splitting lick played by Fripp. It's really kind of an inexplicable ending but that's why I like it. My rocker friends just shrug over it not knowing what to make of it but when I play it for my jazz musician friends, they all love it and some even wanted me to burn them copies of the CD so there you go.


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## Weston

I'm another who likes _all _eras of KC and have probably most of their albums. I consider ItCotKC to be the first proper prog album even though Fripp hates the term. I even like their 80s and 90s line ups. I love the songs "I'm a Dinosaur" and "You Have to Be Happy With What You Have to be Happy With," or whatever it's called. They are one of the very few bands that remained progressive, that is to say never resting on their laurels, throughout their various incarnations. I love Wetton's voice and his bass is a monster. I love Belew's voice. He's a highly underrated singer too though I'm glad he's well known as the Dr. Doolittle of the guitar. Then there's the incomparable Bruford . . .

Ahh -- I think I'm having some sort of progasm.


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## EdwardBast

Love all eras of Crimson. My favorite incarnation is Lark's Tongues through Red (1973-74). Their group improv in this era is astounding; I had no idea at the time that, for example, half of Starless and Bible Black was live improvisation. It's a shame that band didn't make another album or two. There was enough live material and stray tunes (like Doctor Diamond) to do it. Ah well. Palmer-James is my favorite of their lyricists - clean, direct, sincere - none of which applies to Sinfield, although he had flashes of brilliance.

Lizard was my favorite album for a while. Loved Islands too.

I didn't warm to 80s Crimson until the 90s - wasn't much into non-classical then in any case.

90s and 00s bands were great, although I didn't see either live.

Anyone hesitating about seeing the new incarnation should not hesitate. I saw them in Philadelphia. Not much new material, although a couple from Jakszyk, Collins and Fripp appear. They did The Light of Day, for example:


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## Guest

Edward:
Are you aware of The Great Deceiver? It is a 4 CD box set of live music by THAT 73 line-up. There's a lot of improv across the whole piece.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Deceiver_(King_Crimson_album)


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## EdwardBast

dogen said:


> Edward:
> Are you aware of The Great Deceiver? It is a 4 CD box set of live music by THAT 73 line-up. There's a lot of improv across the whole piece.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Deceiver_(King_Crimson_album)


Yes, thank you, I have it! I think the best version of Doctor Diamond (which I believe is a working title, like Daniel Dust) was on the Pittsburgh concert (29 April 1974).


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## Simon Moon

Weston said:


> Then there's the incomparable Bruford . . .


That's Bill Bruford, PhD.

He is now teaching music at the University of Surrey

http://www.surrey.ac.uk/discover/bill-bruford-phd-music


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## Guest

Simon Moon said:


> That's Bill Bruford, PhD.
> 
> He is now teaching music at the University of Surrey
> 
> http://www.surrey.ac.uk/discover/bill-bruford-phd-music


The hell he is!!!


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## elgar's ghost

I remember being told about Bill Bruford doing a drumming clinic at Rod Argent's music store in Worcester back in the early/mid 80s - even after all these years I get annoyed with myself for not attending.


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## FPwtc

I used to have the 80's trilogy but I think my main problem was that they were obviously making more mainstream music. Yes it is very cleverly done but then so was a lot of Peter Gabriel's pop work. Before hand it felt that they were popular but it was not something they contrived. With songs like Heartbeat and Sleepless I felt they were deliberately writing more catchy pop songs and some of the soul was lost. 

I am also not a massive fan of tons of effects. I can appreciate that they were looking for new sounds but I think a lot of the synth drums and synth guitars they used in the Belew era now sound horribly dated. Fripp also sounded space age when he was just using a fuzz and a wah wah!

Having said all that I do think the only reason they are still going and still have a career is that they changed with the times and retained their integrity, despite some small compromises. I do wish actually they had kept the name as Discipline (before changing it to King Crimson again) when they got Belew in so it made a nice break with what had gone before.


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## EdwardBast

FPwtc said:


> I used to have the 80's trilogy but I think my main problem was that they were obviously making more mainstream music. Yes it is very cleverly done but then so was a lot of Peter Gabriel's pop work. Before hand it felt that they were popular but it was not something they contrived. With songs like Heartbeat and Sleepless I felt they were deliberately writing more catchy pop songs and some of the soul was lost.
> 
> I am also not a massive fan of tons of effects. I can appreciate that they were looking for new sounds but I think a lot of the synth drums and synth guitars they used in the Belew era now sound horribly dated. Fripp also sounded space age when he was just using a fuzz and a wah wah!
> 
> Having said all that I do think the only reason they are still going and still have a career is that they changed with the times and retained their integrity, despite some small compromises. I do wish actually they had kept the name as Discipline (before changing it to King Crimson again) when they got Belew in so it made a nice break with what had gone before.


Neurotica, Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Requiem, The Sheltering Sky, Neil and Jack and Me, The Howler, Elephant Talk - in fact, most of the music of this band - is nothing like the pop of any era. But, like I said, I too had trouble warming to this band - at least until youtube made available those amazing live performances. I agree that some of the effects now sound dated - and I think Three of a Perfect Pair is probably the worst album Crimson ever made. Just curious, really don't know: Were Heartbeat and Sleepless ever popular? That would surprise me, given their lameness.


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## samsondale

Simon Moon said:


> That's Bill Bruford, PhD.
> 
> He is now teaching music at the University of Surrey
> 
> http://www.surrey.ac.uk/discover/bill-bruford-phd-music


The way I read it, it appears that he is studying for his PhD!!! Impressive.


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## FPwtc

EdwardBast said:


> Neurotica, Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Requiem, The Sheltering Sky, Neil and Jack and Me, The Howler, Elephant Talk - in fact, most of the music of this band - is nothing like the pop of any era. But, like I said, I too had trouble warming to this band - at least until youtube made available those amazing live performances. I agree that some of the effects now sound dated - and I think Three of a Perfect Pair is probably the worst album Crimson ever made. Just curious, really don't know: Were Heartbeat and Sleepless ever popular? That would surprise me, given their lameness.


Yes under the surface there are some very clever things going on, it just felt a bit too calculated. Maybe that's what I mean when I say it is "poppy". Not so much the sound as the coldness and clever clever element. Also I do feel that there are similarities to bands like Talking Heads, The Police and Peter Gabriel in the sounds of the 80's trilogy, not Cindy Lauper admittedly but more mainstream new wave acts!

It reminded me a bit of some of Rush's attempts at a more concise sound.


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## EdwardBast

FPwtc said:


> Yes under the surface there are some very clever things going on, it just felt a bit too calculated. Maybe that's what I mean when I say it is "poppy". Not so much the sound as the coldness and clever clever element. Also I do feel that there are similarities to bands like Talking Heads, The Police and Peter Gabriel in the sounds of the 80's trilogy, not Cindy Lauper admittedly but more mainstream new wave acts!
> 
> It reminded me a bit of some of Rush's attempts at a more concise sound.


The Police, when they got interesting, were clearly derivative of this Crimson band. So, I think it would make more sense to say it the other way: Crimson of the early 80s is echoed in bands like …


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## haydnfan

I have two albums, In the Court of the Crimson King and Red. Both are awesome. Red I recently picked up (just a couple of weeks ago).


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## Guest

haydnfan said:


> I have two albums, In the Court of the Crimson King and Red. Both are awesome. Red I recently picked up (just a couple of weeks ago).


IMHO, you have two pinnacles there: Schizoid Man and Starless.


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## FPwtc

EdwardBast said:


> The Police, when they got interesting, were clearly derivative of this Crimson band. So, I think it would make more sense to say it the other way: Crimson of the early 80s is echoed in bands like …


That is very interesting, if the 80's KC band were the pioneers of this approach to rock music then it puts a very different spin on things


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## FPwtc

haydnfan said:


> I have two albums, In the Court of the Crimson King and Red. Both are awesome. Red I recently picked up (just a couple of weeks ago).


I strongly recommend getting Larks' Tongues in Aspic next. In my mind it is their best album. Much less immediate than either In the Court or Red but to my mind a deeper listen.


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## EdwardBast

FPwtc said:


> I strongly recommend getting Larks' Tongues in Aspic next. In my mind it is their best album. Much less immediate than either In the Court or Red but to my mind a deeper listen.


Yes, I agree! I too think this was Crimson's best. Can't identify with the less immediate comment, though - from the first sounds I was enthralled. There is a world of interesting new percussion sounds (metal strips playing by electric paint mixers, autoharps played with knitting needles(?), tearing fabric, zippers, laughing machines, bowed double-handsaw, bowl of pistachio nut shells, thunder sheets, bird calls, and many more. This album saw the last of Fripp's acoustic guitar work (Exiles) except for Fallen Angel, which is a shame because he had the best sound going on that instrument. The lyrics are so fresh and clean after Sinfield's pompous and melodramatic, if occasionally brilliant, ramblings. Yes get this one next!


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## elgar's ghost

What Ed said - but I would be grateful if his knowledge stretches to letting me know from where the female vocal sample from LTIA is taken from.


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## EdwardBast

elgars ghost said:


> What Ed said - but I would be grateful if his knowledge stretches to letting me know from where the female vocal sample from LTIA is taken from.


Alas, haven't a clue as to the source of the female voice. The male voice I believe is Muir. I would be more interested in what the voices are saying. There are actual words in there, but I can't hear them clearly. Toward the end I believe some of the words are read from a dictionary, words beginning with "tr?"


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## elgar's ghost

Thanks, Ed - maybe if I send a polite non-geeky letter to Fripp Acres in nearby Evesham he may condescend to reply?


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## Dr Johnson

I've always assumed that the female voice on LTIA pt1 was taken from the sound track of an old film.


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## elgar's ghost

Dr Johnson said:


> I've always assumed that the female voice on LTIA pt1 was taken from the sound track of an old film.


That's what I thought - it's always bugged me not knowing, though.


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## Dr Johnson

For 42 years I was satisfied with my assumption.

Now the question may begin to gnaw at me.....


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## eljr

FPwtc said:


> Who loves King Crimson and what are your favourite albums, line ups, players and eras?
> 
> I bloody love Lizard, so strange and out of time, nothing sounds like this in rock. Probably their most classical and also jazzy, the only word for it is "rococo".
> 
> Next Larks' Tongues in Aspic, one of my top 3 or 4 rock albums, again nothing sounds like this crazy blend of classical, funk, blues and world music.
> 
> Unfortunately I intensely dislike their 80's and 90's work.


Wow! Lizard has always been my fav Crimson.

Their best tour was the Starless and Bible Black tour.


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## Morimur

I was a fan of King Crimson in my early twenties. They have few interesting albums to their name which are unfortunately marred by inept lyrics. Overall, the band produced an immense amount of crap.


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## FPwtc

elgars ghost said:


> What Ed said - but I would be grateful if his knowledge stretches to letting me know from where the female vocal sample from LTIA is taken from.


I think it is from a radio play, not sure which though!


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## Guest

George Khouroshvili, who maintains the David Cross newsletter, was kind enough to pose this question to David Cross on behalf of the ET FAQ. Here is David's specific response:
"As far as I remember, the text that was used at the end of LTinApt1 was a recording of a Scottish radio drama (whose name is hiding in an inaccessible corner of my mind). The last line was "....to be taken from this place and hanged by the neck until you are dead": this was the judge's sentence. The trick, as I remember, was to calculate the start point of the tape effectively so that the word 'dead' coincided with the D major chord that initiated the coda of the piece. Without hard disk editing this took some time to set up. Jamie, I am sure, was the source of the sound track. Maybe he can remember the name of the drama....."
Jamie had nothing to say about this drama, but RF, talking about the voices in LTiA Pt.1, recently wrote in his DGM diary:
"Now Scottish voices, with a judge pronouncing "and hang by the neck upon a gibbet until you are DEAD", the downbeat coinciding with the death sentence's final indictment."
Apparently the drama in question is called 'Gallowglass'. The particular quote in question, used in the coda for 'Larks Tongues In Aspic', is:
"The sentence of the law is that the court discerns and adjudges you Dennis Doolan, Patrick Redding, and James Hickie, to be carried from this place back to the prison of Glasgow, and to be detained there till Friday, the 14th day of May next, and upon that day, between the hours of eight and ten in the forenoon, at or near Crosshill, in the parish of Cadder, and shire of Lanark, or such other place within the said county as the Sheriff of Lanark shall appoint, and there by the hands of the common executioner you shall be hanged by the neck upon a gibbet, until you are, dead, and your bodies shall be buried within the precincts of this said prison of Glasgow. All which is pronounced for doom."
It should be noted that it is mentioned in the 'YPG' booklet that the whispering voices at the end of the coda are supplied by Bruford, Muir and Cross.

http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/FAQ_-_What_Does_It_All_Mean%3F#What_is_being_said_during_the_Coda_section_of_.27Lark.27s_Tongues_In_Aspic_Part_1.27.2C_and_where_does_it_come_from.3F-talk.com/wiki/FAQ_-_What_Does_It_All_Mean%3F#What_is_being_said_during_the_Coda_section_of_.27Lark.27s_Tongues_In_Aspic_Part_1.27.2C_and_where_does_it_come_from.3F


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## MrTortoise

^^^^ nice work, I love hearing details like this. I bestow the KC musicology merit badge to you!


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## elgar's ghost

Now I can sleep again...

Many thanks, Dogen (and to George Khouroshvili and David Cross, too!).

:tiphat:


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## vampireslugger

A nod to The Power to Believe album is in order. I had to score out the guitar parts for Level Five for a school recital once (not an easy task, I might say), and I was so fantastically impressed. The odd syncopated guitar interplay, those stabbing polymetres...

And typically I buggered it up at the recital. Still, I love it.


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## Guest

Jeebus I used to be helpful!


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## Casebearer

Morimur said:


> I was a fan of King Crimson in my early twenties. They have few interesting albums to their name which are unfortunately marred by inept lyrics. Overall, the band produced an immense amount of crap.


A bit late maybe but I would be interested in your opinion of King Crimson: what you think is nice, what you think is crap (and why)?


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## Heliogabo

What do you think, about the contemporary line up of KC (I mean the septet and now octet band)
This week I was fortunate to see them play (twice!) in Mexico city, and it was an amazing experience. I've saw them once back in the 90's, and that was awesome; but this recent experience impresesed me on another level, litteraly blew my mind. Maybe has to do with the fact that they're playing a lot of classic songs. 
In Tony Levin's word in this concerts the band was at it's best, and he said that the five concerts has marked band's history. That's saying something!
I wish they record a studio album soon. This band deserves it.


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## Jay

Heliogabo said:


> What do you think, about the contemporary line up of KC


A fine, highly professional repertory band that does justice to the group's history. But it's not the beast it was in '69 or '74.


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## senza sordino

I have a confession to make here. I'm fairly ignorant of the music of King Crimson. I didn't own any albums as a kid. I'd now like to listen to some of their albums. Unfortunately the entire albums are not available on Spotify, nor in my local libraries. I can piece together an album from YouTube, though I'm not a fan of YouTube, not easy to listen to from my iPad at home. And I'm not prepared to buy the albums. I suspect what I can listen to on my Spotify Canada account is different than in other countries.

Any suggestions of how I can listen to In the Court of King Crimson, Larks Tongue etc in their entirety? 

How did I miss King Crimson as a kid in the 1970s? I'm not sure, but living in three different countries didn't help, packing up and leaving stuff behind. There were a few things I missed out as a young person, and King Crimson was one of them. What I've been reading on Wikipedia I'm sure I would have liked their music as a kid. Will I now?


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## Guest

A bit of cold water from me senza, I'm afraid. Robert Fripp, de facto King Crimson, is utterly uncompromising in his protection of the music, payment of monies due to the artists and other such related issues. I bet he's not a fan of Spotify or iTunes. Because of this I suspect that's why you'll not have much luck in your desire to access their full albums without handing over the readies. This is a man who has stopped concerts because of camera flashes in the audience, who has visited a private individual that was advertising bootlegs for sale...

DGM is an official outlet: (can you Bluetooth your iPad to your hifi?) -


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## senza sordino

Dogen 

Thanks for the information. Protecting the music, I can fully understand. And that explains why King Crimson isn't on Spotify nor much on YouTube. Tiny royalties on Spotify and infinitesimally small royalties on YouTube. Thanks for the YouTube link. I can hard wire my iPad to the hifi and change the settings on the iPad so the screen never shuts off. It's a start. Thanks.


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## elgar's ghost

Another great Robert Fripp story (IF I remember the source correctly...). Someone once wrote to him complaining that for a certain part of a King Crimson concert his view was restricted. Fripp sent a refund for part of the price of the fan's ticket and told him never to see the band again.


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## Guest

senza,
Further, possibly repeated rambling:
As to whether you will like KC. I'm sure a lot of bands (such as KC) that have existed for decades and had line-up changes will demonstrate variations in style over time, but I think KC's albums have shown quite distinctive changes over the years, both because of changes in personnel but, possibly more importantly, Fripp's desire to investigate a new direction. He has tended to recruit musicians to fit the direction I think; rather more than the direction arising from the mix of personnel. I would also say that I don't think stylistic changes have ever been because of changes in public tastes or record company influence (compared to say Yes or Genesis).
I'm a fan of KC, but because of the above, how much I enjoy (or have enjoyed) various albums varies quite considerably.


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## senza sordino

Dogen
Thanks for replying thoroughly and thoughtfully. I guess if we were neighbours I could come over and borrow a couple of King Crimson albums. 

Regarding sampling their music before buying: in this era of instant music at our finger tips such as Spotify and YouTube, instant information from Wikipedia and the internet in general, instant movies from Netflix, and not including the illegal downloads, it's easy to forget what life was like back in the 70s. 40 years ago we had to buy the album or borrow from a friend, or go to a friends house to listen. We had to wait for our parents to give us enough pocket money. We watched on television what was broadcast. We listened to what was broadcast on the radio. We had less. But that's a discussion for another thread and another day.

I'm quite familiar with Yes, ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd etc I know how bands can change their sound through albums. And how did I miss KC? 

I'm quite curious about King Crimson and I'll check them out on YouTube 

Thanks


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## ldiat

senza sordino said:


> Dogen
> Thanks for replying thoroughly and thoughtfully. I guess if we were neighbours I could come over and borrow a couple of King Crimson albums.
> 
> Regarding sampling their music before buying: in this era of instant music at our finger tips such as Spotify and YouTube, instant information from Wikipedia and the internet in general, instant movies from Netflix, and not including the illegal downloads, it's easy to forget what life was like back in the 70s. 40 years ago we had to buy the album or borrow from a friend, or go to a friends house to listen. We had to wait for our parents to give us enough pocket money. We watched on television what was broadcast. We listened to what was broadcast on the radio. We had less. But that's a discussion for another thread and another day.
> 
> I'm quite familiar with Yes, ELP, Genesis, Pink Floyd etc I know how bands can change their sound through albums. And how did I miss KC?
> 
> I'm quite curious about King Crimson and I'll check them out on YouTube
> 
> Thanks


dont for get atomic rooster


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I like the Early KC stuff best, even though I like the Adrian Belew connection of the later band


----------



## Casebearer

I don't understand someone not being prepared to pay for what is great music/art. And paying directly to the people that produced the art is the best way of eliminating the middle men that profit by parasitism.


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

But the question I would raise is how are you paying, the promoter, the record company, the producer or the Artist.............. or even the Tax man


----------



## Cosmic Cowboy

Best line in this entire interview with Robert Fripp is "The truth was Fripp didn't care about the interview-or anything else as it turned out except for magic, ladies and music-and this was simply his way of participating in a verbal exchange."

What else is there in life that is more important than "magic, ladies, and music"?

https://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/...of-interviewing-robert-fripp-of-king-crimson/

Some of the high-lights from this over-written interview...

*On guitars and guitar players:* "I've never really listened to guitarists 'cause they've never really interested me. In fact I think guitar is a pretty feeble instrument. Virtually nothing intrigues me about the guitar. The acoustic guitar is an anachronism, which nevertheless has one or two interesting sounds to it. But it is an anachronism because it is in no way a form of contemporary expression. As a form of contemporary expression, the electric guitar is about the only hope for guitar to develop as a creative feeling. That's my feeling."

*On Eric Clapton*: "Clapton's playing to me has little originality. I would say the kind of area in which he works is rather trite and a limited area. But in his early days, on many occasions, magic. There comes a point if you're working in a particularly limited formal area-where Clapton's playing is based on a number of licks and clichés-the magic just doesn't permeate the notes. Clapton I think is mostly quite banal, although he did some exciting things earlier in his life with Mayall. The Mayall Blues Breakers album is superb. Clapton does quite amazingly. I saw Cream live once. I thought they were quite awful. Clapton's work since, I think, has been excessively tedious."

*On Jimi Hendrix*: "There were one or two Hendrix things I enjoyed. Not the rocky things so much, but the slower things. I haven't been influenced by Hendrix and Clapton in the way that most people would normally say it. I don't think Hendrix was a guitarist. Hendrix had an abysmal guitar technique. I very much doubt if he was interested in guitar playing as such. He was just a person who had something to say and got on and said it."

*On Jeff Beck*: "Jeff Beck's guitar playing I can appreciate as good fun. It's where the guitarist and 'poser-cum-ego tripper-cum-rock star-cum-entertainer' becomes all invol*ved in the package. I'm not putting it down. It's good fun; it's quite enjoy*able. Very exciting. I wish him all the best of luck."

I just think that Fripp doesn't suffer fools gladly... although he may have a much more widely expanded definition of just who and what a fool is...

I also wonder if he truly believes what he's saying as I get the impression that often he's contrary merely for the sake of being contrary...

Difficult to reconcile the above RF with this one -


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

With regard to Jimi I say Technique/Smechic, I its sounds that good who gives a ....


----------



## senza sordino

Casebearer said:


> I don't understand someone not being prepared to pay for what is great music/art. And paying directly to the people that produced the art is the best way of eliminating the middle men that profit by parasitism.


That's a fair comment, but in my defence, I want to sample their music. I have never really heard their music and I might only want to hear it once. If you see from my previous comment, post #54, quoted below again here, I am sensitive to music royalties. I'm not a fan of Youtube because of their infinitesimally small royalties, Spotify is incrementally better but it's still not enough, granted. If I really like something, and want to listen repeatedly, I'll buy it, I'll buy a CD. I don't illegally download, and I never did. I buy CDs but it's exclusively classical. I haven't bought a rock music CD in about ten years or more.



senza sordino said:


> Thanks for the information. Protecting the music, I can fully understand. And that explains why King Crimson isn't on Spotify nor much on YouTube. Tiny royalties on Spotify and infinitesimally small royalties on YouTube. Thanks for the YouTube link. I can hard wire my iPad to the hifi and change the settings on the iPad so the screen never shuts off. It's a start. Thanks.


----------



## Guest

I'm sure we all use various options to sample new stuff; I use Spotify and YouTube. If I really enjoy something, I always buy the album. Gone are the days of rummaging through album sleeves, picking one or two and asking the shop staff to put them on to hear them.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Remember the good old days when we could borrow a mate's albums?


----------



## Guest

elgars ghost said:


> Remember the good old days when we could borrow a mate's albums?


_Real_ mates did you tapes as well


----------



## Guest

I miss having a good rummage.


----------



## Merl

Fripp has always been rather pompous and up himself as regards discussing guitarists and guitar playing. He has a history of saying contentious (or unflattering) things about other artists. Dont get me wrong, as a guitarist he is phenomenal but as a person I always get the Morrissey-esque feeling that he's saying stuff to be different. And as far as New Standard Tuning is concerned, I see the benefits but I'm not playing strings that slack. I struggle with standard tuning., enough.


----------



## Josquin13

I enjoyed Robert Fripp's story on meeting Jimi Hendrix,






In my college years, I was a big fan of their album, "In the Court of the Crimson King" and will always associate King Crimson with Greg Lake's vocals and song writing, which figured so prominently on that album--one of the classic rock LPs of its era & essential King Crimson.

Favorite songs:

In the Court of the Crimson King:





Epitaph:





I talk to the Wind:





21st Centry Schizoid man (the live version is better I think):





https://www.amazon.com/Court-Std-Ki...8-1&keywords=in+the+court+of+the+crimson+king


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## elgar's ghost

I never really liked _I Talk to the Wind_ - despite the light and shade it gives to the the album I still reckon it's a bit wishy-washy. In my experience _Moonchild_ tended to be the debut album's least-regarded track, but I think it's superb.


----------



## Guest

Like Senza King Crimson passed me by back in the day until I eventually started purposely avoiding them.

Now I am in the early stages of my project listening to Toyah Wilcox's husband's performances fifty years on in real time.

I've started with the first few tracks recorded with a reel to reel in the flat with the Giles' where his baroque guitar playing is the standout but now it is time for the Giles, Giles and Fripp album. I'm getting a sense of anticipation that I haven't had since back in the day buying an LP with a day's wages then looking forward to getting it home and playing it.


----------



## Guest

I've never heard Cheerful Insanity; would be interested to hear your thoughts. I recall Judie Dyble had something to do with them. Michael Giles is a fabulous drummer.


----------



## Guest

elgars ghost said:


> I never really liked _I Talk to the Wind_ - despite the light and shade it gives to the the album I still reckon it's a bit wishy-washy. In my experience _Moonchild_ tended to be the debut album's least-regarded track, but I think it's superb.


Back when it was released I thought Moonchild was a complete non-event. But now, I appreciate the stillness of it; I think it was quite ahead of the curve.


----------



## malc

Saw their first [?] gig at the Marquee club , late '60 s , i thought Cream were the way , then Fripp sitting down ! A great encouragement to all of us trying to develop [there were also the Beatles and Syd Barrett Floyd] i'm told some people took mind expanding substances ? green tea? , although this would not help to play with the precision of KC .
The downside was that learning to read and write notation became useful , and then Henry Cow came along !


----------



## Guest

dogen said:


> I've never heard Cheerful Insanity; would be interested to hear your thoughts. I recall Judie Dyble had something to do with them. Michael Giles is a fabulous drummer.


I'll let you know what I think. Judy Dyble was with them for a while after Cheerful Insanity came out. She is the vocalist on 7 homemade recordings from Summer 1968 which are on The Brondesbury Tapes CD. I'm looking forward to hearing them as I only know her for her work with Fairport Convention.


----------



## Guest

Tulse said:


> I'll let you know what I think. Judy Dyble was with them for a while after Cheerful Insanity came out. She is the vocalist on 7 homemade recordings from Summer 1968 which are on The Brondesbury Tapes CD. I'm looking forward to hearing them as I only know her for her work with Fairport Convention.


I've just listened to the album on YT. I think I can safely say it's different to KC. There's the odd touch of guitar that you can tell it's Fripp, but otherwise....


----------



## Guest

Doe it have the songs with jokey lyrics that aren't very funny?


----------



## Guest

Yes. I'd like to call it English whimsy...but I'm struggling...


----------



## Guest

A bit like the early tracks from the home tape then. That was the non-drumming Giles I think.


----------



## Guest

I'm impressed with your thorough groundwork, although I'm not sure there's any real musical connection between GG&F and KC.


----------



## Guest

It's okay, I have another 50 years of Fripping ahead of me.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Tulse said:


> Doe it have the songs with jokey lyrics that aren't very funny?


_The Saga of Rodney Toady_ certainly fits the bill. I think the album tries too hard to be whimsically eccentric in a 'Bonzos meets Ivor Cutler' sort of way. The musicianship is good but as an artefact it's little more than a curiosity as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## EdwardBast

dogen said:


> I'm impressed with your thorough groundwork, although I'm not sure there's any real musical connection between GG&F and KC.


"Erudite Eyes" is the only cut that really anticipates Crimson musically, especially in its adventurous improvisation.



Tulse said:


> Doe it have the songs with jokey lyrics that aren't very funny?


I think the lyric to "Digging My Lawn" is actually funny, for example:

_She was half German, half out of bed
Which half was which doesn't have to be said …_


----------



## EddieRUKiddingVarese

I have copies of In the Wake of Poseidon and Lizard that are very frequent visitors to my Turntable


----------



## Merl

The last Crimson album I listened to was a few months back.... The super 'Discipline'. Matte Kudasai is an all time fave song of mine. Beautiful.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Merl said:


> The last Crimson album I listened to was a few months back.... The super 'Discipline'. Matte Kudasai is an all time fave song of mine. Beautiful.


I remember how much I looked forward to _Discipline_ being released. The beauty of KC during the 1980s and beyond is that Fripp reinvented the band and kept them credible - compare that to the sheer crassness of the glossy MOR gash that Yes and Genesis churned out during the same period.


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## Guest

This may be an interesting resource, for new and old Crimmers.

https://www.dgmlive.com/


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## starthrower

Fripp does listen to some guitarists. About 10 years ago he mentioned he was listening to Mike Keneally's Guitar Therapy Live, and that he was very impressed.

I don't know why he would say acoustic guitar is an anachronism? Acoustic instruments are timeless. And there are people playing contemporary music on them.


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## senza sordino

I walked into a record shop today. And I found and bought a cd of In the Court of the Crimson King. I'll let you know what I think of it.


----------



## regenmusic

The first two are the best.


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## Guest

I've played 'Cheerful Insanity' a number of times now. As expected, it was not dissimilar to the early recordings on 'The Brondesbury Tapes' but beefed up with better sound, session musicians and female backing vocalists. The songs are varied novelties with silly commentary between them and Fripp is clearly a junior member though he does get the end of the album to play fashionable baroque guitar amongst other stuff. 

Overall there is enough of interest to make playing it worthwhile.


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## EdwardBast

starthrower said:


> Fripp does listen to some guitarists. About 10 years ago he mentioned he was listening to Mike Keneally's Guitar Therapy Live, and that he was very impressed.
> 
> I don't know why he would say acoustic guitar is an anachronism? Acoustic instruments are timeless. And there are people playing contemporary music on them.


Fripp also amply praised John McLaughlin, then of Mahavishnu, before he (Fripp) too started a band employing violin as a front line foil, an incisive, powerful rhythm section, and complex metric effects.

I agree about acoustic guitar. Fripp was a master of the instrument, producing a beautiful sound and wonderful dynamic contrasts. His acoustic playing on songs like "Cirkus" and "Exiles" is nothing short of amazing.


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## Guest

I've never really gone into Fripp's soundscapes albums. Any thoughts?


----------



## Guest

Fripp: 'I'm a very difficult person to work with'

Drummer Bill Bruford once called him an amalgam of Stalin, Gandhi and the Marquis de Sade.

:lol:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/11196079/Robert-Fripp-interview-Im-a-very-difficult-person-to-work-with.html


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## Fredx2098

Suuuuundown, daaaazzling day..... Gold, throooough my eyes.... But my eyes, turned withiiiiiiiin, only seeeeeeeeeee......


----------



## EdwardBast

dogen said:


> I've never really gone into Fripp's soundscapes albums. Any thoughts?


Have you tried _No Pussyfooting_ with Brian Eno? Not really soundscapes but uses loops and layering (with analog technology) like the later stuff. The first side, "The Heavenly Music Corporation," is a post-minimalist masterpiece. _Evening Star_ is a good follow up to it.


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## Guest

EdwardBast said:


> Have you tried _No Pussyfooting_ with Brian Eno? Not really soundscapes but uses loops and layering (with analog technology) like the later stuff. The first side, "The Heavenly Music Corporation," is a post-minimalist masterpiece. _Evening Star_ is a good follow up to it.


Ha! Those are the only two I had. Had some Crafty Guitarists stuff at one time too. No, I'm more interested in checking out the soundscape albums such as A Blessing of Tears...


----------



## Fredx2098

dogen said:


> Ha! Those are the only two I had. Had some Crafty Guitarists stuff at one time too. No, I'm more interested in checking out the soundscape albums such as A Blessing of Tears...







This is a really great track which features Fripp from Steven Wilson's (known for progressive rock albums with Porcupine Tree and as a solo artist) ambient side project. It's one of my favorite ambient tracks, and I listen to _a lot_ of ambient.


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## Guest

Fredx2098 said:


> This is a really great track which features Fripp from Steven Wilson's (known for progressive rock albums with Porcupine Tree and as a solo artist) ambient side project. It's one of my favorite ambient tracks, and I listen to _a lot_ of ambient.


This is really cool.
I've got some Steve Roach albums but that's about it.


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## Fredx2098

dogen said:


> This is really cool.
> I've got some Steve Roach albums but that's about it.


I'm a big fan of him. The albums Structures From Silence and Mystic Chords & Sacred Spaces are probably my favorites that I've heard. Robert Rich is another classic artist. They have an amazing collaboration album together called Strata. There's some percussion in some tracks that make it more "new age"-y than ambient, but it's still great I think. There's a pure ambient track at the end that's mind blowing though:






Robert Rich also has 2 albums/tracks called Somnium and Perpetual which are 7 and 8 hours of continuous amazing ambient music intended for sleep, but it's amazing to actually listen to as well if you have 7 or 8 hours to spare. He performs "sleep concerts" where he improvises ambient music and encourages the audience to sleep.


----------



## Simon Moon

EdwardBast said:


> Fripp also amply praised John McLaughlin, then of Mahavishnu, before he (Fripp) too started a band employing violin as a front line foil, an incisive, powerful rhythm section, and complex metric effects.


Speaking of Fripp and McLaughlin...

Here is Fripp 'interviewing' McLaughlin from Musicians magazine from 1982. It is really more of a discussion than an interview.

https://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Interview_with_John_McLaughlin_by_Robert_Fripp_in_Musician


----------



## Azol

dogen said:


> This is really cool.
> I've got some Steve Roach albums but that's about it.


Just so you know there is an album with both Fripp and Roach brought together by Jeffrey Fayman and I cannot recommend it highly enough! Nothing short of amazing if you enjoy this kind of tribal-ambient.

https://projektrecords.bandcamp.com/album/trance-spirits


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## Guest

This is the Wikipedia article entitled - "Soundscapes by Robert Fripp" -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundscapes_by_Robert_Fripp

If you go to youtube and type in "Robert Fripp Soundscapes" this is the page you'll likely encounter -

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robert+fripp+soundscapes

This is the first example found as a result of the search - it contains 15 videos - as you scroll down you'll find multiple sets of bundled videos many with a great deal of overlap. -






These are samples of live videos that you'll also find whilst searching -

Robert Fripp Introductory Soundscape Warsaw 10 June 2000 - 




The Robert Fripp String Quintet - 




And two examples of demonstration videos -


----------



## Guest

Thanks for all the input. I shall investigate.


----------



## Guest

dogen said:


> Thanks for all the input. I shall investigate.


You're welcome! - Didn't mean to overwhelm anyone with the amount of information but the closer you look the more interesting it becomes and doing research is how I mentally calm the roiling waters of the mind.

Interesting subject from an interesting guy - definitely worth looking into further.

- Syd


----------



## malc

Has Fripp ever had doings with Fred Frith ? If not it would be interesting.


----------



## Guest

malc said:


> Has Fripp ever had doings with Fred Frith ? If not it would be interesting.


Fred Frith was the guitarist for Eno when he recorded "Before and After Science" and it is my understanding that he appeared on each of the tunes and Robert Fripp was also a guest musician. Eno spent over two years on this record and recorded over a hundred songs before deciding on the 10 that made the cut. If someone has the liner notes for the original LP or even the CD reissue you may be able to find out who played on which tune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_and_After_Science

There is no reference as to who worked on what and the guest musician list is so long that you may be the only person who didn't actually play on the album..

Strange but true fact - Robert Wyatt went under the pseudonym of Shirley Williams and is credited on the album for "time" and "brush timbales" on "Through Hollow Lands" and "Kurt's Rejoinder" respectively. "Shirley Williams"? - What, were all the really good pseudonym's taken?

Here's a link to the entire album which is actually much better than the reviews would lead you to think...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJNbijG2M7OwrsI9Agsk_6H-SXva2g7rw

There's a website www.rateyourmusic.com in which you can read 175 reviews on this title but I was only able to read the cached page as it is blocking my server's access for some reason - might be one of those US based "No Canadians Need Apply" websites...


----------



## Boychev

Sydney Nova Scotia said:


> There's a website www.rateyourmusic.com in which you can read 175 reviews on this title but I was only able to read the cached page as it is blocking my server's access for some reason - might be one of those US based "No Canadians Need Apply" websites...


That shouldn't happen, I'm on the other side of the ocean (and an additional extra few seas) and have been using the site for years without any issues. Very occasionally their servers shutdown or they close the site for updates but those usually just last a few minutes, rarely an hour or two at most.


----------



## Guest

Boychev said:


> That shouldn't happen, I'm on the other side of the ocean (and an additional extra few seas) and have been using the site for years without any issues. Very occasionally their servers shutdown or they close the site for updates but those usually just last a few minutes, rarely an hour or two at most.


I checked the IP that I was assigned, then released and renewed it, and I was able to log on without difficulty without receiving the "your server is being blocked" page. It's a cool site, eh?


----------



## Red Terror

Why isn't this thread as active as Jethro's? Ridiculous.

I do hope KC put out one last studio album. I am sure they've gotten much inspiration (and material) from touring all these years.


----------



## starthrower

You're at Talk Classical. Go to Progressive Ears or Steve Hoffman Forums for more rock fans.


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## Red Terror

starthrower said:


> You're at Talk Classical. Go to Progressive Ears or Steve Hoffman Forums for more rock fans.


You missed the point. But who cares.


----------



## philoctetes

Here we see this forum's most annoying" feature", the idea that there is always a more appropriate place to say what you want to say. Even on a thread that's about the topic you seek. Anybody who tells me this can take a hike into the orchestra pit. 

On the other hand, if you want to talk about KC, then say something about KC and stop whining that nobody cares. 

But make sure you "appreciate" KC. No criticism allowed!


----------



## starthrower

Red Terror said:


> You missed the point. But who cares.


The point is rock music discussion isn't that busy on this forum. It has nothing to do with appropriateness. I've participated in most of these discussions. I'm not whining. Red Terror was whining about no KC discussion on the Tull thread. Now he's found the right thread.

I appreciate KC but I don't buy anymore of their music at this point. I've got all the early stuff, plus many live collections up through the 90s. And I have some Belew, and Trey Gunn albums that I enjoy.


----------



## Red Terror

starthrower said:


> The point is rock music discussion isn't that busy on this forum. It has nothing to do with appropriateness. I've participated in most of these discussions. I'm not whining. Red Terror was whining about no KC discussion on the Tull thread. Now he's found the right thread.
> 
> I appreciate KC but I don't buy anymore of their music at this point. I've got all the early stuff, plus many live collections up through the 90s. And I have some Belew, and Trey Gunn albums that I enjoy.


The new "Meltdown: Live In Mexico City" is a hell of a disc. Highly recommended.


----------



## starthrower

I didn't know where to post this but I figured KC fans might enjoy it. It has that dark vibe, and it's recorded really well.
https://sonar-band.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-moods


----------



## senza sordino

I now have acquired CDs of In the Court of the Crimson King and Lark's Tongue in Aspic. I've enjoyed listening to both of these. It's the very kind of prog rock I like, inventive and different, long solos, some jazzy sounds, some classical structure, and avoiding that pop sound. Where do I go next? What is the third album I should acquire?


----------



## starthrower

I would recommend In The Wake Of Poseidon. Similar in sound and style to the first album. I love the sound of the album and the songs. The 30th Anniversary edition sounds really good.

If you want to go more in the direction of Larks, there's Red, and Starless and Bible Black. And there's Lizard which is closer to the first two but not quite the same. Some fans love Islands, but it has always sounded rather weak to my ears.


----------



## EdwardBast

senza sordino said:


> I now have acquired CDs of In the Court of the Crimson King and Lark's Tongue in Aspic. I've enjoyed listening to both of these. It's the very kind of prog rock I like, inventive and different, long solos, some jazzy sounds, some classical structure, and avoiding that pop sound. Where do I go next? What is the third album I should acquire?


If you want a true sampling of King Crimson over those first five years, I must respectfully disagree with starthrower: the last album you need is In the Wake of Poseidon. As he indicates, it is very similar to In the Court. Every other studio album of that era is essential and quite different from all of the others. Here's a rundown:

Lizard - the most twisted and complex thing Crimson ever produced, using (along with Islands) the largest ensemble of instruments (Flute, Oboe, English Horn, all varieties of saxes, cornet, trombone, piano, mellotron, synthesizer, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, timpani, voice and drums (including a guest appearance by Jon Anderson of Yes). It was meticulously assembled in the studio with numerous overdubs and hundreds of improvised bits. It is also both the jazziest and most classical of them all.

Islands - Uses the instrumentation of Lizard (minus trombone and English Horn), with the addition of bass flute, acoustic bass, harmonium, and classically trained soprano voice. Similar to Lizard in complexity and studio assemblage, but completely different in tone.

The next two have the same lineup as Larks' Tongues (minus Jamie Muir):

Starless and Bible Black - The most spare, stripped down, and raw album of that era, with a couple of songs that sound almost like rock . Its big distinction is that more than half of it was recorded in one night live on the stage of the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, although one could never guess this based on the quality of the sound and playing - nor was any indication of this given at the time of its release. Equally notable, about half of the album is live improvisation. This is hard to believe as well because the coherence and overall drama of these improvisations is miraculously good.

Red - A thorough masterpiece including one amazing long improvisation. A few players from the earlier incarnations return to add wind color (oboe, saxes, cornet).


----------



## starthrower

I happen to like Wake... Similar or not. For some reason I never listen to Red or Bible... I always go with the Great Deceiver live sets for that material.

So my go to studio albums are the first three, and Larks. And for the later period I like The Power To Believe.


----------



## EdwardBast

starthrower said:


> I happen to like Wake... Similar or not. For some reason I never listen to Red or Bible... I always go with the Great Deceiver live sets for that material.
> 
> So my go to studio albums are the first three, and Larks. And for the later period I like The Power To Believe.


I like Wake also, although a couple of the live versions of Pictures of a City by the current band are, IMO, better than the original. As for live versus studio on Red and Bible, it's pretty much moot since the material on both albums is either essentially live, or never performed live until a few years ago. The "studio version" of "Providence" on Red is an improvement over the live one because David Cross was just not keeping up with Wetton and Fripp on the middle section of that track and the cuts to his contribution make it much more powerful.

Not a fan of Lizard and Islands I take it?


----------



## starthrower

Which recent live set do you recommend? I was leaning toward Mexico City.


----------



## LezLee

You must have 'Starless.....'. 'The Night Watch' is just beautiful and was the song that got me into them.






I saw them in Edinburgh a few years ago and it was the best concert I've ever been to. Just amazing and unlike any other band. They encompass everything from classical to jazz and all of them are brilliant musicians in their own right. Started off with 3 drummers arranged along the front of the stage, each surrounded by everything you could hit or shake. Magical.
The audience were terrific too, within 10 minutes of me sitting down, everyone around me had introduced themselves! It was like a big party. Another nice thing was Robert Fripp had recorded a message asking everyone to switch off their phones and any other cameras. People actually obeyed! 
I don't think recordings can ever capture the unique atmosphere.


----------



## senza sordino

EdwardBast said:


> If you want a true sampling of King Crimson over those first five years, I must respectfully disagree with starthrower: the last album you need is In the Wake of Poseidon. As he indicates, it is very similar to In the Court. Every other studio album of that era is essential and quite different from all of the others. Here's a rundown:
> 
> Lizard - the most twisted and complex thing Crimson ever produced, using (along with Islands) the largest ensemble of instruments (Flute, Oboe, English Horn, all varieties of saxes, cornet, trombone, piano, mellotron, synthesizer, electric and acoustic guitars, bass, timpani, voice and drums (including a guest appearance by Jon Anderson of Yes). It was meticulously assembled in the studio with numerous overdubs and hundreds of improvised bits. It is also both the jazziest and most classical of them all.
> 
> Islands - Uses the instrumentation of Lizard (minus trombone and English Horn), with the addition of bass flute, acoustic bass, harmonium, and classically trained soprano voice. Similar to Lizard in complexity and studio assemblage, but completely different in tone.
> 
> The next two have the same lineup as Larks' Tongues (minus Jamie Muir):
> 
> Starless and Bible Black - The most spare, stripped down, and raw album of that era, with a couple of songs that sound almost like rock . Its big distinction is that more than half of it was recorded in one night live on the stage of the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, although one could never guess this based on the quality of the sound and playing - nor was any indication of this given at the time of its release. Equally notable, about half of the album is live improvisation. This is hard to believe as well because the coherence and overall drama of these improvisations is miraculously good.
> 
> Red - A thorough masterpiece including one amazing long improvisation. A few players from the earlier incarnations return to add wind color (oboe, saxes, cornet).


EdwardBast, this is very helpful. Thanks for listing all the instruments used on each and a brief description of each album's style. I know I would have liked King Crimson as a teen. The instrumentation and complexity of the music would have really intrigued me, and it does now. It's too bad I am only now getting to know King Crimson nearly 50 years after their debut. Ahh, but better late than never. I'm going to comb through our local used CD shops and see what I can find. I will probably also buy a CD or two from Amazon.


----------



## EdwardBast

starthrower said:


> Which recent live set do you recommend? I was leaning toward Mexico City.


That's a tough one. I've heard them in concert and own three live sets, but I'm sure I don't have a handle on all that's out there. My all time favorite version of Pictures of a City is from Toronto (2015). The Chicago concert from 2017 has a great live performance of The Lizard Suite (Dawn Song, Battle of Glass Tears, Prince Rupert's Lament), something many would have thought impossible. It also has great performances of Fallen Angel (never performed live in the 70s) and Level Five. I've heard cuts from Mexico City but don't own it. Afraid I'm not much help - but others could pitch in with recommendations.


----------



## starthrower

Toronto sounds like a good bet. I'm a big fan of Lizard, and I wanted a live set just so I could listen to the drummers. I found them less interesting when it was only Pat M in the band. He's a good drummer but I don't really like his sound.


----------



## senza sordino

Regarding what to buy next, I took your advice. And by 'your' I mean plural. Someone mentioned In the Wake of Poseidon, someone mentioned Lizard, someone mentioned Red and someone mentioned Starless and Bible Black. So I got them all, and Islands and some Vaughan Williams. Not too expensive (about $12.50 Canadian each) from a third party seller on Amazon. All new. They won't be here for a couple of weeks. Why not?


----------



## starthrower

I just bought the Live In Chicago CD today. I'm enjoying this quite a bit. The band sounds great, and the set list is very diverse. From what I've read this is a sound board recording but the fidelity is very good. I'm sure some of the multitrack mixes on other live sets including Toronto are even better. But fans were saying the Chicago performance is one of the best of the recent live releases.


----------



## starthrower

Giving this one a listen. It's been quite a while.


----------



## starthrower




----------



## senza sordino

I have read in Rolling Stone Magazine online
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/king-crimson-albums-streaming-spotify-818686/

that King Crimson will have all 13 studio albums available on Spotify and other streaming services by the middle of June 2019. I'm not sure if this applies world wide. I've now heard In the Court of the Crimson King through Red. I'm looking forward to hearing the later albums.


----------



## Bluecrab

starthrower said:


> Which recent live set do you recommend? I was leaning toward Mexico City.


I realize that I'm late to the party, but if you can find it, try Live in Nashville, TN, from Nov. 2001 (well, kinda recent). It's a King Crimson Club release. Most of the cuts are from The Construktion of Light and The Power to Believe. I think it's truly outstanding stuff.

I saw them way back in the early 70s as the warmup band for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I couldn't hear for about a week afterward.


----------



## starthrower

Bluecrab said:


> I realize that I'm late to the party, but if you can find it, try Live in Nashville, TN, from Nov. 2001 (well, kinda recent). It's a King Crimson Club release. Most of the cuts are from The Construktion of Light and The Power to Believe. I think it's truly outstanding stuff.
> 
> I saw them way back in the early 70s as the warmup band for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I couldn't hear for about a week afterward.


Ha, ha! I don't like super loud concerts. I don't know how musicians could stand playing so loud for a whole tour?


----------



## eljr

Bluecrab said:


> I realize that I'm late to the party, but if you can find it, try Live in Nashville, TN, from Nov. 2001 (well, kinda recent). It's a King Crimson Club release. Most of the cuts are from The Construktion of Light and The Power to Believe. I think it's truly outstanding stuff.
> 
> I saw them way back in the early 70s as the warmup band for the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I couldn't hear for about a week afterward.


Great music from that period. I have the original, limited edition, Heavy ConstruKction CD.

First time I saw Crimson was in Manhattan, Yes opened and did a 30 minute set, they were still unheard of. Procol Harum was on top of the 3 band bill.

But, when I saw Crimson in Boston 2 years later, wow! What a freakin' show. It was the Starless and Bible Black tour.


----------



## Bluecrab

starthrower said:


> Ha, ha! I don't like super loud concerts. I don't know how musicians could stand playing so loud for a whole tour?


It's funny... apparently KC is still loud like that. An old college friend recommended that Live in Nashville album to me. He saw them live in Atlanta around 2012 or so. They way he described it to me was that they were "peeling the paint off the walls."

It's a wonder I can hear it thunder, what with all of the insanely loud live music I heard back in those days. These days I'll settle for a well-played string quartet.


----------



## The Deacon

A collector I know was at maybe a hundred rock concerts in the 70s.
His hearing is now fecked. Serious tinnitus and he's always asking you to lower your voice (when your talking normal volume.)

that's one reason why The Deacon beaker never went to live events.
Another reason is obvious: yobbos.


----------



## eljr

The Deacon said:


> A collector I know was at maybe a hundred rock concerts in the 70s.


I am sure I was at more than 100 in that time frame.


----------



## paulbest




----------



## Phil loves classical

I've been really digging Larks' Tongues in Aspic lately, the non-vocal tracks at least. Rather listen to that than Classical FM Radio for sure. I feel In the Court.. is more consistent, but Larks' ... Aspic Part 1 is my favourite track. I found Red and other albums kind of disappointing. Starless is the only track I sort of like.


----------



## starthrower

The only studio albums I listen to are the ones up through Larks. Red always comes out on top on the KC favorites lists but I never play it. After 1972 it's all live material when I put on a KC album which isn't very often these days.


----------



## elgar's ghost

I'm sure I've said this on a different thread but I have to admit that my affection for _In the Court of the Crimson King_ has palled over time. I was blown away to begin with but _Epitaph_ and the title track just sounds to me now like the Moody Blues on steroids, and _I Talk to the Wind_ reminds me of them as well. I only really have time for _21st Century Schizoid Man_ and _Moonchild_ from that album these days.


----------



## Azol

I play Red consistently and fun thing is - the track I listen to most is Providence although I don't generally listen to this type of music, having mostly sympho-prog tastes.


----------



## Jay

Phil loves classical said:


> I feel In the Court...is more consistent, but Larks' ... Aspic Part 1 is my favourite track.


Agree with the first point, but prefer "Larks' II" to "Larks' I." The heavy riff of the latter strikes me as clunky and dumb; I dig the funk of the former.

If only three KC albums: Court; Lizard; Red (the return of the winds was mightily welcomed hereabouts).


----------



## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

In The Court of the Crimson King is objectively one of the most overrated albums of all time. (

Ok I'm just kidding about "objectively", but I think everything they made afterwards is light years better. I don't get what's so special about it.


----------



## fbjim

I like Schizoid Man but not so much the rest- my favorite prog has always been the stuff in the rock and/or fusion idiom rather than the "symphonic" stuff, so it's all about the post-Larks trilogy for me. 

Either that or German stuff.


----------



## eljr

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> In The Court of the Crimson King is objectively one of the most overrated albums of all time. (
> 
> Ok I'm just kidding about "objectively", but I think everything they made afterwards is light years better. I don't get what's so special about it.


Wow, I never heard anyone say this before.

I though I was alone.

In the Wake of Poseidon and Lizard were much better, IMHO.


----------



## Phil loves classical

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> In The Court of the Crimson King is objectively one of the most overrated albums of all time. (
> 
> Ok I'm just kidding about "objectively", but I think everything they made afterwards is light years better. I don't get what's so special about it.


I like its over-the-top theatricality and production (the reverb with the bass clarinet and drums in Epitaph, great sound). I've changed my signature to one of its lyrics.


----------



## elgar's ghost

Phil loves classical said:


> I like its over-the-top theatricality and production (the reverb with the bass clarinet and drums in Epitaph, great sound). _I've changed my signature to one of its lyrics_.


Not from _Epitaph_, of course, but I might have chosen "Never need to worry with a tin of Hurri Curri".


----------



## HenryPenfold

GucciManeIsTheNewWebern said:


> In The Court of the Crimson King - I don't get what's so special about it.


_Quod erat demonstrandum_


----------



## Jay

An epochal album in my experience, unprecedented in its musical vision and execution, innovative both collectively and individually.


----------



## starthrower

I'm listening to the Islands 40th Anniversary set. This mellow English music sounds good on a cloudy, blustery, cool fall day.


----------



## Chibi Ubu

*Robert Fripp & Toyah Wlilcox*


----------



## HenryPenfold

Over the last few weeks I’ve been listening to quite a few of my KC recordings. LTIA has been my favourite for the last 48 years, but I think I now prefer ITCOTKC!!!


----------



## Jay

HenryPenfold said:


> LTIA has been my favourite for the last 48 years, but I think I now prefer ITCOTKC!!!


Agreed. _LTIA_ hasn't age well for me; from that group I prefer _Red_, in large part because of the return of the winds. Like _Pepper_ and _Are You Experienced?_ before it, _Court_ still exudes its original unprecedentedness.


----------



## Chibi Ubu

*Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With (2002)*


----------



## HenryPenfold

Jay said:


> Agreed. _LTIA_ hasn't age well for me; from that group I prefer _Red_, in large part because of the return of the winds. Like _Pepper_ and _Are You Experienced?_ before it, _Court_ still exudes its original unprecedentedness.


I hadn't really thought about whether the albums have aged well or not. LTIA is still a desert island disc for me and I don't think
the drumming and percussion will ever be surpassed.


----------



## starthrower

I've never owned a copy of Starless and Bible Black. I listened to it on headphones tonight and I Ioved it. I know live versions of some of the tunes but hadn't listened to the studio recordings. Anyway, I ordered the 30th Anniversary CD along with Meltdown: Live In Mexico City, so I'll be looking forward to these arriving soon. Also listened to Live In Chicago today. It's an excellent stereo soundboard recording. Meltdown is a full multi track recording which sounds even better. It included 3 CDs and a Blu-ray DVD.


----------



## Red Terror

I find KC a bit boring, especially when there's so much fascinating music to listen to. They've become their own tribute band.


----------



## starthrower

Red Terror said:


> I find KC a bit boring, especially when there's so much fascinating music to listen to. They've become their own tribute band.


Leave it to Red to dis the premier prog band of all time, lol!


----------



## Ludwig Schon

As with the Softs Vol 1&2, King Crimson’s ITCOTCK is a bloated mess, compared to the brilliance of Poseidon, Larks and Red. The live stuff from that period is so abrasive. I love that line from Fripp, comparing the soundscape of Bruford & Wetton to giant, flying concrete wall…

Couldn't get away with these lyrics today…


----------



## starthrower

Doesn't sound like a bloated mess to my ears. I did Poseidon too.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo

The only bloated part of ITCOKC is the free improv section of Moonchild. I used to have a KC compilation (Frame By Frame) that included the whole album but elided that section. Without that I'd say ITCOKC may be one of the LEAST bloated albums ever. As much as I love Larks and Red (I like Poseidon too, but I probably prefer both Lizard and Islands to it) I don't think of either of them as being particularly concise. That's when KC started experimenting with longer forms and allowing songs space to breathe and slowly evolve. The Larks' Part I title track, while perhaps my favorite KC track, actually takes some time to get going, and while it's worth the wait I could easily see some people thinking it's a long trip for a decent view.


----------



## elgar's ghost

The only bloated mess in recent times has been the naff artwork. Away with it!


----------



## Red Terror

starthrower said:


> Leave it to Red to dis the premier prog band of all time, lol!


What can I say? I get more out of ELP and GG.


----------



## Red Terror

Ludwig Schon said:


> Couldn't get away with these lyrics today…


The lyrics are a bit daft. What are they about—prostitution?


----------



## Ludwig Schon

Red Terror said:


> The lyrics are a bit daft. What are they about—prostitution?


Far darker than that… “But they never told me once, you were a minor” The 70s were grim…


----------



## starthrower

Red Terror said:


> What can I say? I get more out of ELP and GG.


I love ELP but they only made five good records. GG made about six. I actually really enjoy the recent KC band playing material spanning a 50 year period.


----------



## Ludwig Schon

ELP…

Christ wept…

🤐


----------



## Red Terror

starthrower said:


> I love ELP but they only made five good records. GG made about six. I actually really enjoy the recent KC band playing material spanning a 50 year period.


I'd love for KC to put out an album of new material. I don't hate the band, but I am tired of listening to different iterations of the same material. I am sure they at least have one more album in them.

As for GG—what other band sound sounds like them? They're utterly unique.


----------



## starthrower

All the original bands were unique which was a great characteristic of that era. Not sure why KC hasn't recorded any new material? Either Fripp isn't inspired to write new material or Jakko saves all his tunes for his solo albums. His last one is really good. I plan on picking up a copy.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo

ELP is one of the classic prog bands I could never gel with. I can appreciate the technical talents of them as instrumentalists, but the music does very little for me, and Emerson's obsession with writing classical music comes off as cringey. His one actual attempt at a classical work sounded like an average student piece. To me, Zappa and even KC made good use of their classical influences; Emerson, not so much.



Red Terror said:


> I'd love for KC to put out an album of new material. I don't hate the band, but I am tired of listening to different iterations of the same material. I am sure they at least have one more album in them.


There's actually quite a bit of new material on their recent live releases, probably enough for (at the very least) a short album. They just seem to have no interest in going back into the studio for whatever reason.


----------



## starthrower

Eva Yojimbo said:


> ELP is one of the classic prog bands I could never gel with. I can appreciate the technical talents of them as instrumentalists, but the music does very little for me, and Emerson's obsession with writing classical music comes off as cringey. His one actual attempt at a classical work sounded like an average student piece. To me, Zappa and even KC made good use of their classical influences; Emerson, not so much.
> 
> There's actually quite a bit of new material on their recent live releases, probably enough for (at the very least) a short album. They just seem to have no interest in going back into the studio for whatever reason.


Probably because Fripp makes more money from touring and the resulting live albums that are released. In reality, how many 75 + year old rockers are churning out vital new material?


----------



## Jay

Unless I've missed it, it strikes me as somewhat passing strange that the KC repertory band of past 7 or so years--given its wide repertory breadth--doesn't appear to have ever performed "I Talk To the Wind," "Cat Food," "In the Wake of Poseidon," "The Great Deceiver," or "Lament."


----------



## starthrower

Kinda glad they didn't perform The Great Deceiver. I fear it would sound like a mess with two drummers, guitars, and woodwinds. I Talk To The Wind could be a nice vehicle for Jakko and Mel Collins.


----------



## starthrower

December 2021


----------



## Eva Yojimbo

Jay said:


> Unless I've missed it, it strikes me as somewhat passing strange that the KC repertory band of past 7 or so years--given its wide repertory breadth--doesn't appear to have ever performed "I Talk To the Wind," "Cat Food," "In the Wake of Poseidon," "The Great Deceiver," or "Lament."


No band I know of with a significantly large catalog is going to perform every song in that catalog; it's nearly impossible, and undoubtedly time-consuming to relearn and practice songs that may not have been played for years, and do this relearning process before every tour. We should be thankful KC have been playing the breadth of repertoire they have, especially given the comparatively limited selections from the Belew years.


----------



## starthrower

The first two pieces here are incredible! Fripp and Belew are the zen masters of modern guitar. And Trey Gunn is right there with them.


----------



## Red Terror

starthrower said:


> December 2021


The lads can certainly play, I'll give them that much credit.


----------



## starthrower

Red Terror said:


> The lads can certainly play, I'll give them that much credit.


The quartet with Belew and Trey Gunn is my preferred KC band. I just ordered the massive Heaven and Earth box so I can't wait for this to arrive. At just over a hundred bucks it contains over a hundred hours of music. And no nostalgia trips down memory lane. It's all cutting edge modern rock/ improv music. Contains the four Projekcts albums, the new remixed Reconstrukction of Light, 8 CDs of live concerts, and a whole lot more on the Blu-ray discs, audio and video.


----------



## EdwardBast

Red Terror said:


> The lyrics are a bit daft. What are they about—prostitution?


I'd say the lyric of "Easy Money" is about the music industry and its vampiric relationship to artists. The opening is a parody of a religious procession, the bells calling the faithful to prayer; They slog through the muck to worship he who "twinkles by in moccasin sneakers," the idol of the moment, the "lucky star" upon whose luck the money men are "getting fat." He is the one with shaky fingers who "could never tell a winner from a snake."


----------



## EdwardBast

Love this one, along with the earlier version on Collins, Jakszyk, and Fripp. This lyric is one I would like to have explained:


----------



## Eva Yojimbo

Red Terror said:


> The lads can certainly play, I'll give them that much credit.


Fripp is a monster guitarist, and Fracture is one of the most technically advanced pieces ever written for guitar IME. Fripp himself has said he spends the vast majority of his practice time on that track alone. There's also a guitar player who's written a book called "Failure to Fracture" and did a series of YouTube videos on his years-long quest to learn that track:


----------



## EdwardBast

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Fripp is a monster guitarist, and Fracture is one of the most technically advanced pieces ever written for guitar IME. Fripp himself has said he spends the vast majority of his practice time on that track alone. There's also a guitar player who's written a book called "Failure to Fracture" and did a series of YouTube videos on his years-long quest to learn that track:


On the other hand, there is this person, who I'm not sure has even been alive for twenty two years, who does pretty well with it:






I'm not implying that "Fracture" isn't an example of Fripp's great technique. But I am at least as impressed with his acoustic playing, his dynamic differentiation of multiple lines, his use of ghost notes, and other subtle aspects of his playing. His playing on songs like "Cirkus," "Book of Saturday," and "Exiles" is equally impressive to me.


----------



## Shaughnessy

EdwardBast said:


> On the other hand, there is this person, who I'm not sure has even been alive for twenty two years, who does pretty well with it:
> 
> I'm not implying that "Fracture" isn't an example of Fripp's great technique. But I am at least as impressed with his acoustic playing, his dynamic differentiation of multiple lines, his use of ghost notes, and other subtle aspects of his playing. His playing on songs like "Cirkus," "Book of Saturday," and "Exiles" is equally impressive to me.


That's actually Maria Barbieri - She's now 28 years old - Robert Fripp heard her rendition of "Lark's Tongue in Aspic Part Two"" (in 2013 when she was 19 years old) and said this upon being asked the question

"*Would you consider including a woman in King Crimson?"* -

"The choice of members is not arbitrary. This King Crimson I saw on the evening of June 22, 2013 had seven musicians. They were individual, specific musicians, and they were all men. If they had all been women, I would have made the phone calls. But they weren't. Are we open to women members of the band? Sure, if they're the right women in the right time, right place and right circumstance. *And there is a wonderful woman named Maria Barbieri *that plays “Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part Two.” *But she didn't spring to mind on June 22, 2013. If she had, I would have made the call. She’s doing a great job.”

- Robert Fripp*


----------



## Shaughnessy

My nomination for "Strangest Robert Fripp Video of All Time" - Note to self: Do not show this video to wife - Former member of "Riverdance" national touring company...


----------



## Shaughnessy

Robert Fripp and his wife Toyah have a regular YouTube program called "Toyah and Robert's Sunday Lunch" - Here's the link - 



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1qNbAuf8-7pxyzAp50IKl3SCtQtEYJKq



Fair warning - Once you see their rendition of "Blitzkrieg Bop" you will never be able to un-see it...


----------



## Red Terror

Shaughnessy said:


> Robert Fripp and his wife Toyah have a regular YouTube program called "Toyah and Robert's Sunday Lunch" - Here's the link -
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1qNbAuf8-7pxyzAp50IKl3SCtQtEYJKq
> 
> 
> 
> Fair warning - Once you see their rendition of "Blitzkrieg Bop" you will never be able to un-see it...


😀

Looks like Fripp is willing to do anything at this point ... except record an album of new material. But I suppose the slew of (mostly) quality live material is better than the uninspired studio efforts of Pink Floyd.


----------



## Eva Yojimbo

EdwardBast said:


> On the other hand, there is this person, who I'm not sure has even been alive for twenty two years, who does pretty well with it:
> 
> I'm not implying that "Fracture" isn't an example of Fripp's great technique. But I am at least as impressed with his acoustic playing, his dynamic differentiation of multiple lines, his use of ghost notes, and other subtle aspects of his playing. His playing on songs like "Cirkus," "Book of Saturday," and "Exiles" is equally impressive to me.


I have seen this video and Maria is incredibly impressive as well. I was also delighted to see that even Fripp has acknowledged her talent. I also agree that Fripp shows extraordinary technique in many songs, including those you mentioned; but speaking as a guitarist Fracture looks like a nightmare to learn on a purely mechanical level. The kind of zen-state one must get into in order to execute the economy of motion necessary for picking those sequences in the moto perpetuo is something quite extraordinary, and helps me understand why Fripp sits and stares like an obsessive serial killer during their live shows... not really the look of a serial killer, but just someone trying to get into a zone where there is no barrier between him, the guitar, and the motions required to play these pieces.


----------



## starthrower

I bought the Heaven and Earth box which includes a ten hour Blu-ray disc of concert performances from the 2000 European tour. Plenty of opportunities to watch Fripp play Frakctured. But I really enjoy the whole band. What a great quartet!


----------



## Floeddie

*Exposures 32-disc box set *My son just ordered and received this new release in the mail from Robert Fripp / Exposures 32-disc box set – SuperDeluxeEdition

*CD/DVD/Blu Ray information:

CD 1* Major Loops I
*CD 2* Major Loops II
*CD 3 *Major Loops III
_CD 1 – 3 comprise some of the Major Loops for Frippertronics. Disc 3 also includes the loops for the track _Breathless. Discs 1 – 3 – Material previously unreleased

*CD 4* NYC: Exposure Master Loops and Lost in the Bush of Ghosts The master loops for Exposure plus loops recorded for the David Byrne/Brian Eno album My Life in the Bush of
Ghosts _CD 4 – Previously unreleased, except. Bush of Ghosts loops previously available as a download from dgmlive.com under a later title. New to disc_

*CD 5* *Last of the Great New York Heartthrobs*, Plus: Exposure alt takes/rough mixes. _Disc 5 contains the original album running order/featured vocalists/original lyrics in some instances (with the original proposed album title) as mastered in August 1978, taken from the master tape and accompanied by a selection of alternate takes and rough mixes from the album sessions. Disc 5 – Previously unreleased, except select tracks from additional material section previously available as downloads from dgmlive.com. New to disc_

*CD 6* *Exposure First Edition*, Plus: The 2006 master/running order of the First Edition of Exposure plus loops recorded for Here Comes the Flood. _CD 6 – Previously released except Flood Loops_

*CD 7* *Exposure Third Edition*, Plus: The 2006 master/running order of the Third Edition of Exposure plus the additional material from that release – album songs with Daryl Hall/ Terre Roche vocals, plus material from Peter Gabriel II, Daryl Hall’s Sacred Songs and a previously unreleased mix of Here Comes the Flood from Exposure. _CD 7 – Previously released except Here Comes the Flood mix._

*CD 8 Exposure Fourth Edition, 2021 Stereo Mix*, Plus: Full album newly mixed from the original multi-track tapes by Steven Wilson following the First Edition running order and all alternate vocal performances also newly mixed and included. _CD 8 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*CD 9 Breathless or How I Gradually Internalised The Social Reality Of Manhattan Until It Seemed To Be A Very Reasonable Way Of Life*, Plus: Using another abandoned title for the album (as does disc 5) and following, approximately, that album running order using Steven Wilson 2021 mixes and, mostly, Daryl Hall vocal performances. Also includes a sequence of previously unheard loops. _Disc 9 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*CD 10 Frippertronics: The Kitchen, NYC, 5/2/78, Disc One
CD 11 Frippertronics: The Kitchen, NYC, 5/2/78, Disc Two
CD 12 Frippertronics: Wintergarden, Copenhagen, 18/5/79 and Polydor, Paris 23/5/79
CD 13 Frippertronics: Le Pretzel Enchainé, Montreal 19/8/79* New masters of Frippertronics’ shows, including the legendary first NYC shows at The Kitchen and two shows from the tour to support the Exposure album release that included performances in restaurants, art galleries, record company offices, radios stations and record shops. _CDs 10 – 13 – Previously available as downloads from dgmlive.com. _

*CD 14 Material previously released in different masters/formats.* _Disc 14 God Save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners 2021 remaster, Plus: GSTQ/UHM newly mastered from the original master tapes by David Singleton. Material released on disc for the first time in many years, plus a previously unreleased track from the same sessions, a single edit of UHM and God Save the King from the 1985 Fripp/LOG CD compilation. New to disc_

*CD 15 Discotronics/UHM 2021*: UHM and session tracks extended versions and newly mixed tracks from the original multi-track tapes by Steven Wilson. _CD 15 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*CD 16* *Under Heavy Management/Eurotronics.* Previously unreleased tracks from recording sessions of the era newly mixed by Steven Wilson and compiled into the equivalent of two imaginary vinyl length albums._ Disc 16 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*CD 17 *T*he League of Gentlemen – Paradise Club, Boston, 26/6/80 (2nd show)*, Plus: Recorded just one week into the band’s sole US tour. Also included are two rehearsal performances including the LOG take on Disengage. _CD 17 – Previously available as a download from dgmlive.com. New to disc._

*CD 18 Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx and The League of Gentlemen (1985 CD mixes). *DGM released compilation of LOG live plus the original album tracks from the 1985 CD compilation GSTK. _CD 18 – Material previously released in different masters/formats._

*CD 19* *The League of Gentlemen – 2021 stereo mixes*, Plus: Newly mixed from the original multi-track tapes by Steven Wilson, including several studio recordings previously heard on live releases only and alternate mixes of five tracks. _CD 19 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*CD 20* *Let The Power Fall, 2021*, Plus: Newly mastered from the original master tapes by David Singleton and on disc for the first time in many years
plus a single edit and two earlier mixes of another track titled 1984 at the time of mixing. _CD 20 – Material previously released in different masters/formats and/or previously unreleased._

*CD 21* *Washington Square Church, August 1981, 2021* mixes Recordings drawn from a series of concerts at the New York City venue (the full series appears on Blu-Ray, Disc 27). Newly mixed and mastered from the original tapes by David Singleton to produce the finest example of Frippertronics in performance. _Disc 21 – New mixes/Previously unreleased_

*Disc 22 DVD Exposure – Stereo editions and DTS Surround Sound Exposure Fourth Edition* – Steven Wilson mixes plus additional material in 24/96 hi-res stereo and DTS 5.1, Surround Sound. Last of the New York Heartthrobs in 24/96 hi-res stereo Exposure Third Edition plus additional material in 24/48 hi-res stereo

*Disc 23 DVD* *God Save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners *– expanded/The League of Gentlemen – Stereo/Quad/5.1 DTS Surround Sound GSTQ – David Singleton, 2021 master, UHM 2021 plus additional material, League of Gentlemen 2021 mixes by Steven Wilson in 24/96 hi-res stereo. GSTQ in DTS Surround Sound (quad 4.1) mixes by David Singleton. GSTQ plus additional material in DTS 5.1 Surround Sound mixes by Steven Wilson. League of Gentlemen studio recordings in DTS 5.1 Surround Sound mixes by Steven Wilson

*Disc 24 DVD
Let The Power Fall/Washington Square Church *LTPF in 24/96 and WSC in 24/48 hi-res masters/mixes by David Singleton LTPF/WSC in DTS Surround Sound (quad 4.1) mixes by David Singleton.

*Disc 25* *Exposure/Under Heavy Manners – Blu-Ray I* Exposure Fourth Edition. Exposure Fifth Edition (running order as per First/Fourth Edition but with the inclusion of Daryl Hall lead vocals on select tracks)
Breathless or How I Gradually Internalised The Social Reality Of Manhattan Until It Seemed To Be A Very.Reasonable Way Of Life
Under Heavy Manners and Additional Material from the recording sessions 2021 Masters/Mixes in 24/96 in hi-res stereo, DTS-HD 5.1 Surround Sound and Dolby Atmos mixed and
produced by Steven Wilson
God Save the Queen 2021 Masters in 24/96 hi-res stereo and DTS-HD Surround Sound (quad) mixed and produced by David Singleton
Exposure: Additional Material/Sessions/Under Heavy Management/Eurotronics Newly mixed material from the sessions in 24/96 hi-res stereo in recording date sequence and sequence as per Disc 16 mixed and produced by Steven Wilson Last of the New York Heartthrobs Exposure Second Edition Under Heavy Manners – Original Mix (David Singleton 2021 Master) Master Recordings in 24/96 hi-res stereo Exposure First Edition Exposure Third Edition plus Additional Material Master Recordings in 24/48 hi-res stereo

*Disc 26 The DGM Frippertronics’ Archive Volume I – Blu-Ray II

Disc 27 The DGM Frippertronics’ Archive Volume II – Blu-Ray III *The Complete DGM Archive of Frippertronics loops, studio and live recordings 1977 – 1983 in 24/48 hi-res stereo

*Disc 28 Let The Power Fall/Washington Square Church/The League of Gentlemen Blu-Ray IV*
The League of Gentlemen 2021 Masters/Mixes in 24/96 in hi-res stereo, DTS-HD 5.1 Surround Sound and Dolby Atmos, Additional Material in 24/96 hi-res stereo mixed and produced by Steven Wilson
Let The Power Fall 2021 Masters in 24/192 hi-res stereo, DTS-HD Surround Sound (Quad) mixed and produced by David Singleton. Original Master plus Additional Material in 24/96 hi-res stereo
Washington Square Church 2021 Masters in 24/48 hi-res stereo and DTS-HD Surround Sound (Quad) mixed and produced by David Singleton
God Save the King. The 1985 Robert Fripp/League of Gentlemen compilation Masters in 16/48 stereo

Discs 22 – 28 – All material new to disc in these formats, mixes, audio quality

*Disc 29 (CD) Resplendent in Divergence*
A collection of Frippertronics that appeared as individual tracks on compilations, other albums and the DGM website assembled and mastered by Alex R. Mundy at DGM.

*Disc 29 (CD) *Previously released, some material new to disc
*Disc 30 (CD)* Blasts and Blasms – Sessions, Jams and Rehearsals
*Disc 31 (CD)* More Blasts, More Blasms – Sessions, Jams and Rehearsals
Two discs of recordings and elements of recordings from various points during the Exposure sessions giving an insight into the process that led to the album. Assembled and mastered by Alex R. Mundy at DGM. _Discs 30/31 – Some material previously available as downloads at dgmlive.com, most new to disc._

*Disc 32 (CD)* The League of Gentlemen – Royal Exeter, Bournemouth, 21/9/80, John Peel broadcast, 17/11/80 The League of Gentlemen’s autumn tour of the UK included some of the short-lived band’s most energised performances. This newly mastered audience recording is one of the few recorded examples of that tour. Also included are recordings from LOG rehearsal tapes made by the band & first broadcast on the John Peel Show on the BBC in November 1980. _Disc 32 – Some material previously available as a download from dgmlive.com. New to disc._


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