# Would the Horowitz "Ideal Cycle" work here on TC?



## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Hey all. I'm still pretty new to TC and heavy classical listening. I know Horowitz gets both love and hate around here, but I think his video series on the "Ideal Cycle" is a pretty good idea. For those who haven't seen any of them, the idea is this: make a cycle of symphonies, concerti, etc. for a given composer. The catch is that the list cannot repeat the same conductor/soloist in the list. Orchestra is ok and perhaps unavoidable.

Here is his Shostakovich symphony video as an example:





Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has input on this idea. I have seen some posts where people made their ideal cycles within other threads but those would be hard to find unless one knew where to look.

I did see @Knorf make a post like this on Mahler symphonies:
https://www.talkclassical.com/66362-recommended-mahler-symphonies-11-a.html

I'm wondering if this idea has been done and I just haven't seen it or if that would be a good project. Any input?


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## Ravn (Jan 6, 2020)

Just do it, but don’t be disappointed if people are struggling with finding 108+ different Haydn conductors! :lol:


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

There was a Beethoven frankencycle thread on TC back when I joined but for the life of me I can't find it. I'll do another search and see if I can. I'm sure there was another thread where Brahms cycles were discussed in this way. I'm off to check. 

Edit: I couldn't find the one I was looking for but this similar thread from 8 years ago wasn't so popular (sorry Itullian).
List your own ultimate Beethoven symphony cyc;e..........

Edit 2: Lots of lists here too.. .

Best Beethoven Symphony Recordings

Jeez my list has changed a bit since then. Hahaha. Tbf it changes regularly anyway.


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## MatthewWeflen (Jan 24, 2019)

Yeah, the "no repeat conductors" rule is asinine. It almost guarantees that certain repertoire will see a sub-optimal "Frankencycle."


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2020)

Any sort of rule - no repeats of conductor, orchestra, performer, label, etc. - essentially changes the concept into a game that is rather easily played rather than an expression of what one would consider a compilation of significant and thus meaningful performances which would be of far more interest.

No offense to any here but the first time that David Hurwitz ever comes up with a good idea will be the first time that David Hurwitz ever came up with a good idea - he nicked the "Ideal cycle" concept from Gramophone who have been compiling such lists for decades.

Name the thread "The Ultimate (insert name/composition here) Cycle"... not literally "The Ultimate (insert name/composition here) Cycle as that would be rather foolish - use an actual composer's name e.g. "The Ultimate Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf Symphony Cycle". He has 120 with solid attribution and another 90 that are "questionable" - I'm not entirely certain why they're considered "questionable" as they sound exactly like the 120 which have solid attribution but such are the vagaries of life.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Yeah, good points made here. I guess for me I am thinking about how helpful certain lists and threads have been vs how difficult it can be to find them if you don't see them on the first few pages. The one conductor per cycle isn't necessary that big of a deal but I was thinking of ease of indexing in the forum search engine. I was thinking that a series of posts with a standard naming convention might leverage the limited power of the TC search feature and help folks find posts that help them spend more money on classical music. 
An example would again be Trout's top 10 lists and also Merl's LvB series. MatthewWeflen's comment above had me using advanced search for 'Frankencycle' in the title and it produced only one thread by KenOC on Beethoven symphonies. Maybe that would be a better way to do it.

Was this the one you were talking about Merl?
Your Beethoven Frankencycle


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Hurwitz ideal cycle? I was trying to figure out what this had to do with the famous pianist Horowitz.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2020)

BlackAdderLXX said:


> Yeah, good points made here. I guess for me I am thinking about how helpful certain lists and threads have been vs how difficult it can be to find them if you don't see them on the first few pages. The one conductor per cycle isn't necessary that big of a deal but I was thinking of ease of indexing in the forum search engine. I was thinking that a series of posts with a standard naming convention might leverage the limited power of the TC search feature and help folks find posts that help them spend more money on classical music.
> An example would again be Trout's top 10 lists and also Merl's LvB series. MatthewWeflen's comment above had me using advanced search for 'Frankencycle' in the title and it produced only one thread by KenOC on Beethoven symphonies. Maybe that would be a better way to do it.
> 
> Was this the one you were talking about Merl?
> Your Beethoven Frankencycle


Don't use the actual forum search feature - It went out for a smoke break about five or six years ago and never came back - Use an actual search engine - Type in "TalkClassical (followed by whatever subject it is that you're attempting to find) and you'll discover whatever it is that you may be seeking.

Note: Do not actually type "TalkClassical (followed by whatever subject it is that you're attempting to find) in the literal sense.

Here's an example - "TalkClassical Merl Beethoven" -

https://www.google.com/search?q=tal...rome..69i57.5743j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Side note: nice work, Merl, my compliments.

And if "being helpful" was a necessary criterion for creating a thread there would be precious little to actually write about.


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2020)

JAS said:


> Hurwitz ideal cycle? I was trying to figure out what this had to do with the famous pianist Horowitz.


Horowitz? Ideal cycle? I was trying to figure out what this had to do with the famous violinist Heifetz.


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

I don’t quite understand how such a cycle selection can be called “ideal” when it arbitrarily excludes recordings on the basis of the “one per conductor” rule. The ideal cycle would be one with the best recordings of each work, repeated conductor and all.


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## BlackAdderLXX (Apr 18, 2020)

Littlephrase1913 said:


> I don't quite understand how such a cycle selection can be called "ideal" when it arbitrarily excludes recordings on the basis of the "one per conductor" rule. The ideal cycle would be one with the best recordings of each work, repeated conductor and all.


I always dismiss words like ideal or best as hyperbole. That said I don't presume to answer for David Hurwitz.


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