# Age



## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

They announced some piece on the radio, and my wife commented, “I don’t hear much about Iona Brown anymore.” Looked her up and found out that she passed away in 2004. Wow! I feel like I’ve seen generations of conductors come and go.

I was born before Shostakovich wrote his 9th Symphony. When he wrote his 10th, I was doing duck-and-cover nuclear attack drills in the classroom.

So much time has passed, so much music since then. What’s yet to come? I’ll only see a bit of it, certainly.

Is anybody else amazed how much time has flowed away? Or how little? Do you wonder what’s coming next?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

What is really surprising is to find that the events of our childhood are now taught as "Modern History". Does this make us living fossils?

As well as realising that people have died and we haven't noticed them, there's also the category of "I hadn't realised they were still alive". The more worrying one is when people we remember, only slightly older than ourselves, pass away and remind us of our mortality.

There's a poem by Browning - _Rabi Ben Ezra_ - which sums it up

Grow old along with me! 
The best is yet to be, 
The last of life, for which the first was made: 
Our times are in His hand 
Who saith "A whole I planned, 
Youth shows but half; trust God: see all, nor be afraid!''


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2017)

KenOC said:


> They announced some piece on the radio, and my wife commented, "I don't hear much about Iona Brown anymore." Looked her up and found out that she passed away in 2004. Wow! I feel like I've seen generations of conductors come and go.
> 
> I was born before Shostakovich wrote his 9th Symphony. When he wrote his 10th, I was doing duck-and-cover nuclear attack drills in the classroom.
> 
> ...


Bits drop south then fall off. Decay sets in before death finally strikes. _Carpe diem_.

:angel:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

What I tend to notice is when a crossword compiler gives a clue that depends on my knowing who 'Len Hutton' is, or some biblical or literary reference that I know that someone younger than me will not know. Or else the compiler seems to think I'll know the name of a presenter on a game show. 

When I was young, it was normal for one's parents to have been in the Second World War, and one's grandparents to have been in the First. Now it's great-grandparents who've been in the Second World War - if they're still alive. 

I have always been aware of death and the passing of time - imagined myself back in history and wandered round churchyards reading inscriptions with a sort of pleasant melancholy. 

I don't want to look ahead to illness, dementia or death - I do want to savour every moment and live in music, books, nature, and the love of friends. 

I think of the words of Lao Tzu - 'He who lives out his days has had a long life.'


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

What really makes me feel old is when the rock albums I hurried to the record store to buy on the day of release in my youth are now described by radio announcers as "Classic Rock". I was recently surrounded by group of wide-eyed younger colleagues listening to my description of seeing Nirvana on their final tour (I was pleasantly surprised that they had even heard of the band). Then, without any hint of irony, one of them remarked, "What a waste! You're too old to appreciate music like that". :lol:


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Ingélou said:


> When I was young, it was normal for one's parents to have been in the Second World War, and one's grandparents to have been in the First. Now it's great-grandparents who've been in the Second World War - if they're still alive.


Agreed. When I was a child, any man at or approaching retirement age would have fought in the Second World War (including my paternal grandfather) and I recall meeting a couple of very elderly men who had fought in the First World War. Now all the First World War veterans are gone and there are fewer every year left from the Second World War.

I once, when I was about 10, met a lady in her 90s who had been a member of the Russian aristocracy, fled Russia in 1918, moved to France and then later to Britain. She described the huge street demonstrations in 1917 and the fall of the monarchy and then the October revolution and the events that followed that. She even met Rachmaninov once just before the First World War!

It's amazing how today's events become tomorrow's history, particularly when there is no longer anyone around who actually witnessed them.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Ingélou said:


> When I was young, it was normal for one's parents to have been in the Second World War, and one's grandparents to have been in the First. Now it's great-grandparents who've been in the Second World War - if they're still alive.


Unless, people marry later in someone's family, than you can have grandparents from the 19th century.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Marinera said:


> Unless, people marry later in someone's family, than you can have grandparents from the 19th century.


Combination of late marriage and younger children definitely means that you can have grandparents from the 19th century. Mine are all pre 1880 (earliest was born 1872) and some of my wife's are pre 1890. We currently have a labour MP who is a grandmother at 37 so the generation gap is shrinking.


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Some authors (like for example Goncharov) are so close to me, that I can feel myself contemporary with them, walking their walk of life. I remember also quite a lot of people who were able to tell their life story (and make me witness) so vividly, that I dreamt some kind of continuation or re-aliving of this witness during the nights that followed. For example a Dutchman who had gone through the 'Police actions' on Java in 1949 told me how it was to drive an armoured vehicle in the constant life danger, heat & dirt: when he was old all these nightmares returned. But not only he, I also found myself dreaming about those horrors. So _summa summarum_ human life in my experience is not 'individually living inside a bubble' but is sharing of what one has witnessed with people of the past, present & future. Because of that shared witness I honestly do not *know* what is 'age'.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

I was born in 1940 to the sound of anti-aircraft guns on the hospital roof. My dad was in India 1942 - 45. What always gets me is that my nephew and niece learnt about WWII in History lessons and know a lot more about it than me because it was too recent to be taught when I was at school.
Musically, with the number and variety of radio stations, it’s perfectly possibly for people never to hear a piece of classical music except for incidentally on an advert. When I was young, as well as BBC Radio 3, the Light Programme always included some classical pieces in every music programme and most people were familiar with the 1812, Scheherazade, Bolero, the Pearl-Fishers duet etc. On quiz shows, I hear a worrying amount of ignorance about music, art and literature because there’s so much distraction 
now, and younger generations aren’t interested in ‘culture’.


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

Older people can be a definite link to the past. Another story: in 1991 I saw Mieczyslaw Horszowski's last UK performance at the Wigmore Hall in London. Horszowski, who was very nearly 99 at the time, was a pupil of Theodor Leschetizky. Leschetizky was a pupil of Carl Czerny, who was in turn a pupil of Beethoven. So Horszowski was, in a way, a living link to the great man himself and also had number of pupils of his own. I think Murray Perahia was one of them.


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Time flies like crazy and wasted days go by...


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

When I worked in Sheffield Libraries there were several local history groups, many of which collected and published memories and reminiscences of the older residents. 
4 of us from my library interviewed and chatted informally to our borrowers and published our own book via the library's 'Write Back' publishing dept.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2017)

Taggart said:


> Combination of late marriage and younger children definitely means that you can have grandparents from the 19th century. Mine are all pre 1880 (earliest was born 1872) and some of my wife's are pre 1890. We currently have a labour MP who is a grandmother at 37 so the generation gap is shrinking.


I read somewhere in an old thread on here that both of the _parents_ of the member concerned were born in the 19th Century.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Sorry about the confused pictures on my previous post. Don’t know how to delete them!


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

The bad thing about seeing history you lived through now being presented in textbooks is, it isn't exactly what happened; it's more filtered in the light of what has happened since. It's a little frustrating. 

And music and artists who no one knew, especially the obscure ones I was into in my college days, become recognized today as relevant or forward-thinking and now are almost institutionalized. 

I think history is easier to read about than to live through.

Right now, I'm doing all I can to keep up with what's going on, realizing that in 20 years, today's story will also be retold in a different light.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

LezLee said:


> Sorry about the confused pictures on my previous post. Don't know how to delete them!


Don't worry Lez. I still can't get good copies with my mimeograph! :lol:

(I'm sure some here will be asking, "What's that?")


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

LezLee said:


> Sorry about the confused pictures on my previous post. Don't know how to delete them!


Sorted - no problem.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

I remember mimeographs, the copies smelt revolting!
Did you use an epidiascope to show pictures? Used to get in a right mess with them. We also had extremely boring slide shows at school, always seemed to be about African waterways or a history of weaving in the Industrial Revolution.


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Tulse said:


> I read somewhere in an old thread on here that both of the _parents_ of the member concerned were born in the 19th Century.


Nope - dad 1911 (died 1990) mum 1914 (died 1988).


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks Taggart. 
Having missed them first time round, Iâm currently catching up with your namesake on an obscure channel í ½í¸


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

Marinera said:


> Unless, people marry later in someone's family, than you can have grandparents from the 19th century.


You don´t have to marry for that.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

All my grandparents were born in the 19th century but 3 of them died before I was born.


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## Sloe (May 9, 2014)

chill782002 said:


> Agreed. When I was a child, any man at or approaching retirement age would have fought in the Second World War (including my paternal grandfather) and I recall meeting a couple of very elderly men who had fought in the First World War. Now all the First World War veterans are gone and there are fewer every year left from the Second World War.


Not when I was a child because we did not take part in the war. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2017)

Taggart said:


> Nope - dad 1911 (died 1990) mum 1914 (died 1988).


Ah sorry Taggart, I didn't mean you. I don't recall the member's name unfortunately.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

LezLee said:


> I remember mimeographs, the copies smelt revolting!
> Did you use an epidiascope to show pictures? Used to get in a right mess with them. We also had extremely boring slide shows at school, always seemed to be about African waterways or a history of weaving in the Industrial Revolution.


Yes, we called them opaque projectors. You can still buy them. A bright light illuminated whatever was laid on the platform, and the image was reflected by a mirror out through a large lens, somewhat dimly. We even had a small one at home.

In business, they were superseded by overhead projectors, which worked mainly with transparencies, and then those disappeared when decent software and projectors for microcomputers came along.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Ken - I keep meaning to say I like your avatar! When I was 18 I discovered American music and while other girls had posters of Elvis or Brando in their bedrooms, I had a framed monochrome photo of Copland at his desk.
OK, perhaps I wasn’t your average teenager.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Manxfeeder said:


> The bad thing about seeing history you lived through now being presented in textbooks is, it isn't exactly what happened; it's more filtered in the light of what has happened since. It's a little frustrating.
> 
> And music and artists who no one knew, especially the obscure ones I was into in my college days, become recognized today as relevant or forward-thinking and now are almost institutionalized.
> 
> ...


Oh you are so right. History always favours the teller.


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

I was born months before Shostakovich wrote his second cello concerto and second violin concerto. 
My mother was born the year Peter Grimes premiered.
My grandfather, mother's father, was born the year Mahler's seventh symphony was completed. 

Stravinsky and I were alive at the same time, our lives overlapped by six years.
Wagner and Stravinsky lived at the same time, their lives overlapped by one year.
Wagner and Beethoven lived at the same time, their lives overlapped by 14 years.
Quantz and Beethoven lived at the same time, their lives overlapped by three years 
And Quantz was born in the 17th Century


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

LezLee said:


> Ken - I keep meaning to say I like your avatar! When I was 18 I discovered American music and while other girls had posters of Elvis or Brando in their bedrooms, I had a framed monochrome photo of Copland at his desk.
> OK, perhaps I wasn't your average teenager.


Lez, if you had a poster of Aaron Copland in your room as a teenager, then I agree. You weren't an average teenager!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

My grandparents were born in 1881, 1886, and 1887. I knew all four of them. Two of my uncles served in WWII, but I was only able to talk with one about his service in the Pacific (the other died when I was quite young). He was never anxious to talk about that except to say that there were plenty of unconscionable acts on both sides.

My parents were born in 1910 and 1913, both gone now. Grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, all gone. My older brother passed away nine years ago. My sister and I remain, her family now large, mine small.

I made a photobook online with family pictures going back into the 19th century and extending up to 1955. Nicely bound and printed. Lots of research and advice from my sister, the family historian. Most members of the current family have found it a hot item! For instance:

My maternal great grandmother in 1875, age 13. She was born during the Civil War.










Again, with her grandchildren, my mother and her brother, in 1918, age 56.










Finally, with my maternal grandparents and mother at Christmas in 1942, age 80. Three generations here. She died two years later.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

My dad was born in 1908 and my mum in 1905. She was adopted so the genealogy is quite difficult. I know her original surname but no first names. My dad was half Welsh with one of the most common Welsh names. A large majority of Englishmen of that era had kings’ names - George, Edward, William. My sister has one photo of my dad’s parents but there aren’t any of my mum’s.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

LezLee said:


> Sorry about the confused pictures on my previous post. Don't know how to delete them!


1)Click on Settings at the top right of this page.
2)On the My Settings column of the lower left that follows, click on Attachments.
3)This takes you to your List of Attachments. Find the Attachment you want to delete, and click their little check box[es] on the right.
4)Scroll down to the bottom of the list and click on where it says Delete Selected on the right. That will do it.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Should we have a group for old codgers only?


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## Taggart (Feb 14, 2013)

Haydn67 said:


> LezLee said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry about the confused pictures on my previous post. Don't know how to delete them!
> ...




Not quite. This is a problem a number of people seem to have with attachments. You attach something and then post and it's stuck at the bottom as "attached thumbnails click to enlarge" - 

It's (relatively) easy to fix - when you know how.

You edit the post, 
then go advanced, 
then scroll down to "manage attachments"
you will see a screen showing all the pictures you have attached with the thumbnails at the bottom










click in the little check mark box next to the picture, then click on Insert Inline
then click on done
you can then preview your post and then save changes

See - I told you it was easy.

Far better - *don't* use attachments - use links - see Posting pictures for details.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Dan Ante said:


> Should we have a group for old codgers only?


I thought this already was! :lol:


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks Taggart. I’d only ever used Amazon forums which were just the plainest of text - no choice of fonts, bold, emojis or anything else. Certainly not pictures or other attachments. I’m completely self-taught, bought a MacBook in 2010, plugged it in and had to work out what to do next. So I’m grateful for people’s help on here.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Something I've noted, and perhaps it's just me...but have you ever noticed how _old_ not-even-that-old old people _used_ to look, compared to the way old people look now? I have a black-and-white photo of my paternal grandfather taken when he was about 50 or 51 - and he looks at least seventy.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

My maternal grandparents by Hennie Schaper, on Flickr

My maternal grandparents were both born in the 1890's and died in the 1970's (aged 80 and 77). I never knew my paternal grandparents. Had the Netherlands been drawn into WW1, my grandfather would have had to fight at the front.

My parents were born in 1927, my father actually was rounded up by the German occupation force and transported to Germany to work in their factories. He escapes, survived a few rounds of gunshots, got back to the Netherlands and managed to stay safe until the end of the war.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

> KenOC: "My grandparents were born in 1881, 1886, and 1887. I knew all four of them. Two of my uncles served in WWII, but I was only able to talk with one about his service in the Pacific (the other died when I was quite young). He was never anxious to talk about that except to say that there were plenty of unconscionable acts on both sides.
> 
> My parents were born in 1910 and 1913, both gone now. Grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, all gone. My older brother passed away nine years ago. My sister and I remain....."


Very close parallels Ken. My parents born 1910 and 1912; everyone gone except my surviving sister and me; two uncles in WWII, one US Army Air Force, B-17 top turret, the other US Navy, chemist, responsible for cleaning and recycling helium for blimps.

Regarding history, and the writing of and participation in, my all-time favorite quote is by Churchill. At or near the close of WWII, he wrote:"History will be kind to me, for I shall write it!". And he did, six volumes of it, having set aside as personal property enormous masses of memoranda and other papers, quite probably illegally at the time, showing him in the best light possible. This is in no way to detract from his enormous courage and grit, but he did very often get it wrong during the war. And one shining example of his vision was his constant demand for ever more and better aircraft. It saved England.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Dan Ante said:


> Should we have a group for old codgers only?


I thought that this forum already covered that!:lol:

Sorry Lez. I see you beat me to this retort.


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Barbebleu said:


> I thought that this forum already covered that!:lol:
> 
> Sorry Lez. I see you beat me to this retort.


Pull yourself together, write out 500 times "I must pay more attention"


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Life was a bit different a couple of centuries ago. My sister pieced together this episode in family history.
----------------------------------------------
Our 4X g-grandfather was a talented guy. “Mr Rufus Inman, a master workman in wood, iron, and steel, manufactured spinning wheels of every description, made surgical instruments, and with wonderful skill, used them. He extracted teeth for six and one-fourth cents singly, and ten cents for two at one sitting; would let blood when necessary, with a lance of his own making..."

After thirteen children and then the death of his first wife, he married Betsy Mayhew, a widow with six children, in 1812 Maine. Soon after, Rufus heard a canal was being built in Ohio. Having worked on the Erie Canal, Rufus loaded everything in a dump cart of two wheels drawn by a single horse and, with Betsy riding on top, the family walked (most of them barefoot) from Corinth, Maine, to Washington County, Ohio.

The summer was passed when they arrived in Ohio on the Muskingum River. There was no money, no housing, but the game was plenty. Plenty of timber to build cabins. All pitched in and soon a cabin was built and made tight for winter.
----------------------------------------------
Can you imagine this small impoverished army approaching your farm? I would sure as heck hide away any valuables, grain stocks, and daughters!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

I survived the Coventry Blitz...


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Totenfeier said:


> Something I've noted, and perhaps it's just me...but have you ever noticed how _old_ not-even-that-old old people _used_ to look, compared to the way old people look now? I have a black-and-white photo of my paternal grandfather taken when he was about 50 or 51 - and he looks at least seventy.


I've noticed that too. When I was a child in the 1950s, even people in their thirties dressed and behaved like middle-aged people, and they were thinner and more lined, so it shows up on photos - it isn't just that they looked old to me because I was a child.

Now people in their forties dress and look as young as people in their twenties - not always, but often enough.

It's better health care - fashion - cosmetics - exercise & good nutrition & not having to wear yourself out in your job or as a housewife. The people from earlier in the twentieth century didn't help themselves by leaping on to middle aged fashions as a sign of adulthood - perms and twinsets for twenty-five year old women, moustaches and too-neatly combed-back hair for the young men chasing an office job.

Mind you, I feel the urge to set a discussion question -

'Which is best? Young people trying to look older than they are, or middle-aged and elderly people dressing and acting like young people?'

Or should that be - 'which is more annoying?'


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## Potiphera (Mar 24, 2011)

I think as regards to fashion, history repeats itself, when we are younger we are very influenced by the latest trends, and have to have what our peers have, such as in my day, the mini skirt , certain hair styles like a bob, which suited me well, when I look back at old photos of me in a mini skirt, I am horrified at my awful knees. But even more prevalent today is the craze for tattoos, which I think are unsightly, it is amazing how may people have them now, and they are permanent. In years to come they most probably will regret ever having their body 'Art', which I think can be even more unsightly if they do have it removed it leaves scarring.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

I was never influenced by the latest trends, it was a matter of principle not to follow the crowds! Like quite a few of my contemporaries (I was 20 in 1960) I made my own clothes. It was far cheaper, you could choose how ‘mini’ you wanted and everything fitted properly. You also never had the same outfit as anyone else. 
I also hate tattoos and even more, piercings all over the place. My husband always said they made him think of slaves being branded and led about by nose-rings. Not good.


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## Totenfeier (Mar 11, 2016)

Society needs respected elders, dammit! I don't care how old they are! Just the other day, I asked Mrs. T "Where are all the silver/grey/white haired grannies who used to bake cookies (pardon, biscuits) and make tea?" Where are the men who would never THINK of leaving the house without a jacket, tie and walking stick or cane? But that horse has left the barn, since fifty is the new thirty.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

My mum (born 1905) always wore a hat and gloves even just to go to the local shops. She had a large collection of hats and got very cross when my sister and I fell about laughing at them. My dad also always wore a hat, his job required him to wear a suit so off he went on his bike every morning dressed for the office. He did have a capacious overcoat for inclement weather.


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## Orpheus (Jul 15, 2012)

LezLee said:


> I also hate tattoos and even more, piercings all over the place. My husband always said they made him think of slaves being branded and led about by nose-rings. Not good.


Pretty much what people who do this _are_, in my view - though those who _subject_ themselves in this way are normally among the last to realize that this is, in fact, what they are doing. It is hard for them to recognize, perhaps, because the condition is entered into with some willingness, if without much knowledge, and because their subjection is not (directly, hence recognizably) to a powerful individual but to the mass media (controlled by extremely powerful individuals), and the fashionable trends they encourage on behalf of other extremely powerful individuals who control large corporations and the like.

But I've probably said enough to be getting on with. I wonder if comments like this are sufficient to earn me my own "Old Fogey" card though? :tiphat:


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

LezLee said:


> I also hate tattoos and even more, piercings all over the place. My husband always said they made him think of slaves being branded and led about by nose-rings. Not good.


I am with you 100% Tattoos make women look like hookers and as for piercings absolutely revolting. On men just an immature mistake, give me nice natural skin any day.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Tattoos on human body are as inappropriate as graffiti would be on Sistine Chapel walls or crystal caves. They cannot compare in design, structure, thought and beauty to human body, it's like downgrading yourself to something not even third-rate in other words vandalizing, just misguided efforts in the wrong direction. I always thought tattoos reflection of weak mentality ruled by ego that is conditioned by society like Orpheus rightly said


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

I think that old age is that point in your life where you think that you know more than you do and feel that you have some divine right to spout any old nonsense you care to under the pretext that advanced years have imbued you with some sort of arcane insight as to how the world should be run. Note that this is rarely, if ever, true. 

In the words of a young contemporary singer (of mine, that is) "Don't criticise what you can't understand, your sons and your daughters are beyond your command...........your old road is rapidly agein'. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand. For the times, they are a'changin'." :lol:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I say that old age is when you realize what an idiot you were when you were young, and suspect (not unreasonably) that most young people are still idiots. And of course you grumble a lot.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2017)

KenOC said:


> I say that old age is when you realize what an idiot you were when you were young, and suspect (not unreasonably) that most young people are still idiots. And of course you grumble a lot.


...and become an older idiot.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Old age for me is when I remember that my 'baby' sister is 71 and my nephew will be 40 next year!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

KenOC said:


> I say that old age is when you realize what an idiot you were when you were young, and suspect (not unreasonably) that most young people are still idiots. And of course you grumble a lot.


I certainly grumble but it's usually about my contemporaries who chucked living when they hit sixty. Retire early and let me get a pipe and slippers seems the mantra. A great poem is Roger McGough's "Let me die a young man's death." It should be required reading for all those over sixty. Young people that I know have boundless enthusiasm and live life to the full and seem to have a pretty good handle on the fact that it's the old fogeys that are bent on sending us all to perdition on a handcart.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2017)

LezLee said:


> I was never influenced by the latest trends, it was a matter of principle not to follow the crowds! Like quite a few of my contemporaries (I was 20 in 1960) I made my own clothes. It was far cheaper, you could choose how 'mini' you wanted and everything fitted properly. You also never had the same outfit as anyone else.
> I also hate tattoos and even more, piercings all over the place. My husband always said they made him think of slaves being branded and led about by nose-rings. Not good.


It sometimes appears to me that having no tattoos puts me in the minority.


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

dogen said:


> It sometimes appears to me that having no tattoos puts me in the minority.


People asked me why I didn't have any piercings.

There was some sort of mass exodus for piercing - initially only ears but later more holes into the ears, eyebrows, nose and in someplaces I never wanted to know. I mean almost everyone I knew both sexes started doing piercings. Nobody had managed to exlpain to me why I should do it. Such things become almost a peer pressure thing especially when a certain fad reaches a critical threshold. As I saw it and as I see this still - such fads are carried out mostly on emotion and instinct. People see a desirable image they want to be a part of and that's enough for them. I always hated to be manipulated directly or subtly. You always have to watch who's throwing a stick so to speak and that's with everything not only news - I'm slightly paraphrasing here the saying posted in the wise sayings thread.



> I think that old age is that point in your life where you think that you know more than you do and feel that you have some divine right to spout any old nonsense you care to under the pretext that advanced years have imbued you with some sort of arcane insight as to how the world should be run. Note that this is rarely, if ever, true.


Sounds like some teenagers I know. Or rebels, and revolutionaries, also masterminds of all political and religious movements. Ok I'll maybe stop here.

Acctually everything is old nonsense


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

When I look at old photos of my ancestors I think how 'old' people looked back then (comparative to their real age) and how boring and dull clothes were, up to the middle of the 20th Century. I was looking at some old photos of my grandad (he died before I was born in the Sixties) the other day and his mother. Mrs Merl asked me how old I thought my great grandmother was in that photo. I said I didn't know but guessed about 75 and my grandad in his early 50s. When I quizzed my dad about it he remembered the occasion perfectly and told me his grandma was in her mid 50s and his dad in his early 30s. Strewth!


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## Marinera (May 13, 2016)

Merl said:


> When I look at old photos of my ancestors I think how 'old' people looked back then (comparative to their real age) and how boring and dull clothes were, up to the middle of the 20th Century. I was looking at some old photos of my grandad (he died before I was born in the Sixties) the other day and his mother. Mrs Merl asked me how old I thought my great grandmother was in that photo. I said I didn't know but guessed about 75 and my grandad in his early 50s. When I quizzed my dad about it he remembered the occasion perfectly and told me his grandma was in her mid 50s and his dad in his early 30s. Strewth!


I have exactly opposite situation with my paternal grandfather. We have his passport picture all other photographs are lost and when I was no more that 8 or 9 I always thought he looked young in he's 20's maybe young looking early 30's and I thought this at the age when everyone past their 30's looks old to you. So just recently I found out that in that photograph he was 51! I never knew this because there were few copies and my dad said original photograph is dated very clearly. I even argued with him that this cannot be true, because even if there are no wrinkles the planes of the face, area around the eyes and especially the jawline give away the age of the person and I've seen 28 year olds look older than my grandfather looks in that picture. According to my father this was normal back then because people were much thinner then only skin on the muscles and the bones, and no fat to sag the skin... well that's his version, I just hope I inhereted the Peter Pan's gene from my grandad.


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Marinera said:


> I have exactly opposite situation with my paternal grandfather. We have his passport picture all other photographs are lost and when I was no more that 8 or 9 I always thought he looked young in he's 20's maybe young looking early 30's and I thought this at the age when everyone past their 30's looks old to you. So just recently I found out that in that photograph he was 51! I never knew this because there were few copies and my dad said original photograph is dated very clearly. I even argued with him that this cannot be true, because even if there are no wrinkles the planes of the face, area around the eyes and especially the jawline give away the age of the person and I've seen 28 year olds look older than my grandfather looks in that picture. According to my father this was normal back then because people were much thinner then only skin on the muscles and the bones, and *no fat to sag the skin*... well that's his version, I just hope I inhereted the Peter Pan's gene from my grandad.


Fat can also plump out the skin, and make some older people look younger, in the face, anyway.
Slimness of body, however, definitely makes someone look younger.

The trouble is, you can't ask Nature to provide you with a slim body and a nicely-plumped up face. Hence we women are told that after the age of 40, we have to 'choose' between our *faces* and our *figures*. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/04/01/choose-between-face-and-body_n_9579352.html

I must say, it's an especially-hard choice when *neither* was ever much cop...


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

Merl said:


> When I look at old photos of my ancestors I think how 'old' people looked back then (comparative to their real age) and how boring and dull clothes were, up to the middle of the 20th Century. I was looking at some old photos of my grandad (he died before I was born in the Sixties) the other day and his mother. Mrs Merl asked me how old I thought my great grandmother was in that photo. I said I didn't know but guessed about 75 and my grandad in his early 50s. When I quizzed my dad about it he remembered the occasion perfectly and told me his grandma was in her mid 50s and his dad in his early 30s. Strewth!


Exactly. My dad always looked old; the Bobby Charlton comb-over probably didn't help. He only lived to 59 and I definitely look younger than he ever seemed to (I'm 57).


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

Two top tips for dotage:

1. Never pass a public toilet.

2. Never help a fart.

Not profound, but practical. :devil:


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

dogen said:


> Exactly. My dad always looked old; the Bobby Charlton comb-over probably didn't help. He only lived to 59 and I definitely look younger than he ever seemed to (I'm 57).


I so agree about comb-overs. 
My father died at 48, but looked quite battered compared with today's 48-year-olds. Of course, being a Scot of an older generation, he thought there was something wrong with blokes using cream on their face etc.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I find I am beginning to forget the names of actresses.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

I just misread one of the thread titles in New Posts as "Greybeard Concertos".


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Dr Johnson said:


> I find I am beginning to forget the names of actresses.


I find I'm beginning to forget my own name. Don't worry, Dr J, you're only old when you have a 'favourite chair'. I read it in the Daily Express.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

Merl said:


> I find I'm beginning to forget my own name. Don't worry, Dr J, you're only old when you have a 'favourite chair'. I read it in the Daily Express.


I have a favourite chair.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

Tulse said:


> I have a favourite chair.


So do I!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Merl said:


> I find I'm beginning to forget my own name. Don't worry, Dr J, you're only old when you have a 'favourite chair'. I read it in the Daily Express.


I'm only allowed on one chair?


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## chill782002 (Jan 12, 2017)

You know you're getting old when all current "pop" music sounds the same. Although I hate to say this because it makes me sound like my father...


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I have a favorite chair too, but I can't remember which one it is.


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2017)

KenOC said:


> I have a favorite chair too, but I can't remember which one it is.


It's probably the one with all the stains on it. Mine is.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Tulse said:


> I have a favourite chair.


I do too, but it's also the cat's favourite chair and I don't win very often.


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## Orpheus (Jul 15, 2012)

chill782002 said:


> You know you're getting old when all current "pop" music sounds the same. Although I hate to say this because it makes me sound like my father...


If you want to reframe this more positively, rather say that you are old enough to remember those days when pop music did _not_ all sound the same. You could then point any critics to this evidence: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...-music-evolving-or-is-it-just-getting-louder/


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Pah, age is just a number and that number is "twelvety".


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## senza sordino (Oct 20, 2013)

My students think I'm ancient, but compared with some of you here, I'm a youngster. I was born in 1965, my mother was born in 1945. I always joke that she and I will end our days in an old folks home together. 

I am noticing more and more little aches and pains and medical issues afflicting my body, but my mind is as sharp as ever. Let's hope the mind remains sharp even if the body starts to fall apart.


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## Dr Johnson (Jun 26, 2015)

senza sordino said:


> My students think I'm ancient, but compared with some of you here, I'm a youngster. I was born in 1965, my mother was born in 1945. I always joke that she and I will end our days in an old folks home together.
> 
> I am noticing more and more little aches and pains and medical issues afflicting my body, but my mind is as sharp as ever. Let's hope the mind remains sharp even if the body starts to fall apart.


FFS! :lol:

I wish I was your age again!


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

senza sordino said:


> but my mind is as sharp as ever. Let's hope the mind remains sharp even if the body starts to fall apart.


I am still young in my head but perhaps not as sharp as I was its just that the body lags behind, frustration is often present.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Senza, you're a year younger than me! Yeah I'd say we were the younger TC crew. Some people here are so old they write in sandscript.


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## Lenny (Jul 19, 2016)

I'm in my mid 40's now, and I'm really starting to feel I'm not in my prime anymore. Wiser, maybe, but definitely slower, both physically and mentally 

Hats off to all folks even wiser!


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Lenny said:


> I'm in my mid 40's now, and I'm really starting to feel I'm not in my prime anymore. Wiser, maybe, but definitely slower, both physically and mentally
> 
> Hats off to all folks even wiser!


Oh to be in my 40's rather than having been born in them. You know what they say, youth is indeed wasted on the young!:lol:


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## Dan Ante (May 4, 2016)

Merl said:


> Senza, you're a year younger than me! Yeah I'd say we were the younger TC crew. Some people here are so old they write in sandscript.


Me just being a smart asre,

Anglo Saxon 'old english' 12th cent

An. M.LXVI. On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg 7 se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen 7 hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre 7 Harold eorl feng to Englalandes cynerice swa swa se cyng hit him geuðe 7 eac men hine þærto gecuron 7 wæs gebletsod to cynge on Twelftan mæssedæg 7 þa ylcan geare þe he cyng wæs he for ut mid sciphere togeanes Willelme ... 7 þa hwile com Willelm eorl upp æt Hestingan on Sce Michaeles mæssedæg 7 Harold com norðan 7 him wið gefeaht ear þan þe his here com eall 7 þær he feoll 7 his twægen gebroðra Gyrð 7 Leofwine and Willelm þis land geeode 7 com to Westmynstre 7 Ealdred arceb hine to cynge gehalgode 7 menn guldon him gyld 7 gislas sealdon 7 syððan heora land bohtan.
*
translated:*

1066 In this year the monastery at Westminster was hallowed on Childermas day (28 December). And king Eadward died on Twelfth-mass eve (5 January) and he was buried on Twelfth-mass day, in the newly hallowed church at Westminster. And earl Harold succeeded to the Kingdom of England, as the king had granted it to him and men had also chosen him thereto and he was blessed as king on Twelfth-mass day. And in the same year that he was king he went out with a naval force against William ... And the while count William landed at Hastings, on St. Michael's mass-day and Harold came from the north and fought against him before his army had all come and there he fell and his two brothers Gyrth and Leofwine and William subdued this land, and came to Westminster and archbishop Ealdred hallowed him king and men paid him tribute and gave him hostages and afterwards bought their land


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Since we all talk about our ''dads'', mine is, beside grey hair, very good looking and strong...In his 65 he plays football/soccer outside with his chums , swims across a not so small lake in less than 10 minutes, walks a lot and is all around in a great shape...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Flamme said:


> Since we all talk about our ''dads'', mine is, beside grey hair, very good looking and strong...In his 65 he plays football/soccer outside with his chums , swims across a not so small lake in less than 10 minutes, walks a lot and is all around in a great shape...


65 is the new 35.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

The lady who brought my personal alarm asked would I prefer the button for my wrist or for round my neck, adding : “Well you’re not elderly, but we find most of our older people prefer them on their wrist”
I’m 77! Yay!


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

hpowders said:


> 65 is the new 35.


Ok dad  I think He preserved himself by being a bit of selfish a ho** and an arrogant ba****d...He arranged his life to never stress about anything, wife, children, home, sounda like a paradise, but maybe for him, for us others it was pretty much a hell hole


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Flamme said:


> Ok dad  I think He preserved himself by being a bit of selfish a ho** and an arrogant ba****d...He arranged his life to never stress about anything, wife, children, home, sounda like a paradise, but maybe for him, for us others it was pretty much a hell hole


Life is a bitch...and then we die!


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## Flamme (Dec 30, 2012)

Errm tnx 4 a dose of optimism, 4 xmas!


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