# Make me a real opera fan



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

As I already mentioned in another thread, I am a beginner regarding the opera. The thing is - I like the vocals of all sorts but I react better to abstract arts. What I mean is that I like pure emotion coming from music but not necessarily the story, the plot etc. This is why I like music more than painting and painting more than literature and I do not watch a lot of films. Bearing that in mind, would it be possible to recommend me some further pieces to listen to and the performers I might like?

I would like to get familiar with more arias of the type that I prefer. I like them to be highly emotional but also subtle. I like it when the melody and the instruments are also prominent, I do not care about the words as much although I DO appreciate their value - but only as an addition. Here is what I have come to like a lot so far:

"Flower Duet" from Lakmé by Delibes - I like both Maddy Mesple and Danielle Millet as well Erika Miklosa and Bernadett Wiedemann in this:










"Vallon Sonore" from Les Troyens by Berlioz

"Je crois entendre encore" from Les pecheurs de perles by Bizet - and especially Alain Vanzo for this one

So, I am looking forward to your suggestions for more arias and performers I might like.


----------



## LvB (Nov 21, 2008)

Your tastes seem eclectic-- which is a good thing, as it allows for a range of suggestions  . One that comes immediately to mind in "Wintersturme" from Wagner's _Die Walkure_ (in fact, if you simply let the music work on you, the rest of Act One might well move you greatly). The arguments over which recording is best are endless, and I don't intend to get caught up in them, so I will just say that Georg Solti's recording is superb, and that Bernard Haitink's has a rich quality that is very warm and effective. Erich Leinsdorf's recording is also quite good.


----------



## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Always difficult for me to predict what others will like, so I just go with what I love myself and hope for the best. 

*Mirella Freni* sings "Io Son L'Umile Ancella" from Cilea's "Adriana Lecouvreur"






*Lisa Della Casa* and *Anneliese Rothenberger* sing "Aber der Richtige" from Strauss' "Arabella"






*Renée Fleming* sings "O Silver Moon" from Dvorak's "Rusalka"






*Anna Netrebko* in Glinka's "Ruslan and Lyudmilla"






*Kiri Te Kanawa* sings "Che Il Bel Sogno" from Puccini's "La Rondine"


----------



## Saturnus (Nov 7, 2006)

I'll suggest Puccini, it is THE most emotion packed music I've heard and his colorful orcherstration is also very rich, his music can easily stand on its own. The same goes for Bartók, though he only wrote one opera early in his career.


----------



## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

I'll recommend a CD set, the remastered RCA recording of Verdi's Rigoletto with Robert Merrill and Anna Moffo, conducted by Solti. Reason is, this is one of the best vocally for all the roles, and the orchestral music is also excellent. It's a very entertaining CD set, a good "listen". Rigoletto has incredible dramatic power. And the CD set is economical too.

Visually, I suggest you try the film version of Mozart's Magic Flute that was made by the great Swedish director Ingmar Bergman. This is one of the most approachable opera DVDs ever made, fun and enjoyable to watch, plus very good music. This DVD is available for rent in most places.


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Thanks for your suggestions. In the mean time, I have come across another aria that I like a lot. It is:

Dal tuo stellato soglio from Rossini's Moses in Egypt

As I mentioned earlier, I am much more into abstract art like music than into fiction etc. Therefore, I would enjoy an opera but only if it has a lot of "melody" in it, so does not only convey a chain of events but also is very interesting musically. I would welcome more suggestions of particular operas or arias that might do the trick. The aforementioned title might give you a clue what I am looking for. Anyway, I prefer the "melancholic" or "dramatic" side and not the "jolly" one.

I also like:

The Ride to the Abyss and Pandemonium from "La Damnation de Faust" by Berlioz
Siegfried Funeral March from Wagner's Götterdämmerung


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Ciel, I really don't know how this will strike you, but it has been haunting me now for a couple of weeks: Charpentier's _La Descente d'Orfee aux enfers_.










There's an exquisite aching poignancy in the tunes, and an ethereal quality to much of the singing, that keeps drawing me back to it time and again. The full effect of it only became apparent to me after a couple of listenings - though that's not to say the music is hard to 'get into'. It isn't. Anyway, you can easily get a small taster here.

The samples are far too short - but just try nos 3, 8, 11 and 19. They are typical of the kind of beauty I'm talking about, so if they don't appeal, you'll know it's not for you.


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Thank you Elgarian, the excerpts are indeed so short that it is hard to tell if I would like the whole thing. Still, out of those No. 8 seems to be the closest to what I like. And I am already into baroque a little bit since I discovered Rameau some time ago. As I said earlier, I am trying to go beyond symphonic, chamber and choral and I strongly intend to find more beautiful arias and new performers. Further suggestions are welcome - anything starting from baroque up to the late 19th century. Let's make it a "beautiful arias to ignite interest for opera" thread. I would especially appreciate pointing at spefic arias by various composers that have a lot to offer melody-wise.


----------



## katdad (Jan 1, 2009)

If you are looking for opera with "melody" -- traditional tunes, stay away from 20th century British opera -- it's essentially tuneless.

As for melody itself, Mozart, Mozart, Mozart. Die Zauberflote, Don Giovanni, and Le Nozze di Figaro are full of tunes.

I'd also suggest (as I did before) Verdi's Rigoletto, and his Masked Ball, and Aida. Check out Puccini's operas -- good tunes as well. And most of the famous bel canto composers -- Rossini, etc.


----------



## jaybee57 (Jan 22, 2009)

I would support LvB's suggestion of Act 1 of Die Walkure; one of the greatest Acts in all opera. I would also suggest Act 3 of the same work. The parting of a father and his most loved daughter is truly magnifcent and the music sublime. I would also recommend the end of Act 3 of Wagner's Gotterdamerung which has some of the most beautiful and deeply moving music ever written. I would also agree that much of Puccini is well worth a try, though hardly as profound as Wagner. Good luck with your Opera listening.


----------



## msegers (Oct 17, 2008)

To continue with *katdad'*s remark, "If you are looking for opera with 'melody' -- traditional tunes, stay away from 20th century British opera -- it's essentially tuneless," I'd add. stay away from most 20th century opera to begin with. There are many treasures in the opera of the 20th century, but I don't recommend that anyone begin with _Erwartung_.
Also, when you come across the name of an aria, check YouTube. I was amazed recently how many different versions of one aria I found there. Some are historical, some hysterical (some fit into both categories). Some have video, others just an image of the singer. But, it is probably the best single source for recordings of arias you'll find.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Here's a likely candidate for you, Ciel. This is Susan Graham singing Dido's lament 'When I am laid in earth' from Purcell's _Dido and Aeneas_, here. After a bit of preamble, the aria itself begins at about 1.10; if you're not close to tears by the time you reach all those heartbreaking 'remember me...'s around 3.00 and after, then... then ... well, I'll eat my hat.

For a different approach (and a historic bit of film) try the amazing Janet Baker's version, here.


----------



## Gneiss (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm a little biased on two counts here, fistly as she's currently my favorite soprano and secondly as it's my favourite opera, but I would say arm yourself with a copy of Violetta Arias and Duets - Anna Netrebko. Even the during the death scene Verdi manages to slip in an upbeat little number - for a death scene that is 

If I may also throw in this wonderful light hearted clip...


----------



## PostMinimalist (May 14, 2008)

If you want to get really converted you should try booking a holiday in Verona During the Opera Festival. You will get carried away on a wave of Opera fanaticism.

The skys are also full of opera as the scenes are changed everyday! 
Here's part of the set for Tosca being hoisted into place, quite surreal!


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Elgarian, half a year later I am indeed a newly-born opera fan after listening to a complete opera and looking forward to another one. Purcell's Dido and Aeneas did the trick for me - it is now my FIRST complete opera. The next one will be Lakme. I also warmed up to the non-abstract dimension of opera being the plot itself and discovered the visual aspect as definitely appealing. Thank you all for your suggestions, I am also going back to them and will probably pick some of those as well. I'll keep you posted. And in the mean time, if anyone happens to have favourite arias that were not yet mentioned, I will be happy to see this thread becoming a "my favourite arias" thread.


----------



## Mirror Image (Apr 20, 2009)

I dislike opera, but some of the arias in the works of Puccini, Wagner, Verdi, etc. are quite beautiful.


----------



## ecg_fa (Nov 10, 2008)

I think the Puccini operas are maybe the most accessible (I mean Butterfly/Boheme/Tosca
esp. and maybe Turandot). Also they're shortish. Verdi-- early ones like Trovatore and
Traviata, maybe Rigoletto are tuneful certainly. Though if you like more abstract,
I also think later more complex ones like Otello, Falstaff, Aida and Don Carlos can be very rewarding. Mozart's great comic ones: Figaro/Don Giovanni/Cosi Fan Tutte really at least.
And just recently I'm really enjoying the new recording of Idomeneo realized by René Jacobs. I think his operas along with piano concertos & late symphonies are my faves of his work-- and such marvelous synthesis of singing/music. For Wagner, I too think Die Walkure is good place to start. I also recommend Richard Strauss's Der Rosenkavalier, which in some ways synthesizes 'Wagnerian' and 'mozartian/classical' aspects. I also think Handel has a lot of excellent 'abstract' singing (in a different way of course than more modern pieces). Even contrasting say, Emma Kirkby's austere, pretty/less vibrato style on her many Handel albums to maybe Renee Fleming's Handel album, or Janet Baker's very different approaches might be nice. Much more of course. I also personally feel that a good way to get 'used' to classical voice is to listen to lieder/song: very basic and stripped down, and of course here the words often matter more I suppose, but I like hearing voice 'bared' like this. Many disagree with me about that-- some even loving opera and hating lieder . I love both.

Ed


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> Elgarian, half a year later I am indeed a newly-born opera fan after listening to a complete opera and looking forward to another one. Purcell's Dido and Aeneas did the trick for me - it is now my FIRST complete opera. The next one will be Lakme. I also warmed up to the non-abstract dimension of opera being the plot itself and discovered the visual aspect as definitely appealing.


Oh that's great news - I'm glad it worked out for you. You'll find _Lakme_ a very different kettle of fish compared with the _Purcell_ - that's quite a stylistic leap you're making there! On the other hand, _Lakme_ is so packed full of good tunes that you can hardly go wrong with it.

The plot does add a whole new dimension, because instead of the emotional content of the music being rather vague, it becomes sharply focused on the situation. We know precisely why Dido's lament is so sad and beautiful because by the time we hear it we know her, and her circumstances.

So .. a couple of suggestions you might like to try. First, here's surely one of the greatest arias in all opera, Handel's 'Scherza Infida' from _Ariodante_, sung by Magdalena Kozena. It's a concert performance, but none the less heartbreaking for all that. Ariodante sings this having been deceived into believing he's been betrayed by the woman he loves:

Scherza Infida.

Later in the opera everything turns out alright after all, and Ariodante sings the very, very different 'Dopo notte', amazed and almost punch-drunk by the turn of events. Here's Kozena again singing it; you may have trouble sitting sitting still once she really gets going:

Dopo notte.


----------



## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Opera 101*

Maybe I am to structured. But I do find what I like through reading books and this book is even available as a audio book, or for pennies used on amazon.


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Thanks kg4fxg, I have also come across similar books where I live and I guess it is another way to broaden my operatic horizons. However, I am already an opera fan now and able to appreciate opera not just musically but also for all other things that make it what it is. I am also already very fond of Lieder as I have definitely enjoyed Schwanengesang. I am still looking forward to my "first time" with a live opera. Sadly enough, where I live a lot of operas are performed in "contemporary" settings and costumes and I do not exactly prefer boring "contemporary" clothes on opera singers. It would be understandable for 20th century opera, but why they do that to pre-20th century works is not exactly clear to me.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> Sadly enough, where I live a lot of operas are performed in "contemporary" settings and costumes and I do not exactly prefer boring "contemporary" clothes on opera singers. It would be understandable for 20th century opera, but why they do that to pre-20th century works is not exactly clear to me.


Some very, very strange things are done in the name of 'creative production', I'm afraid. A recent production I saw of Mozart's _Seraglio_ changed much of the dialogue, significant parts of the plot, and involved the appearance of Wonder Woman and Superman. It's hard to see how that can actually be advertised as a Mozart opera. It was more like a Christmas panto.

But there are still good 'uns. Just a few days ago I saw a (traditional) production of _Manon_ that was _so_ good - I mean _seriously_ brilliant and affecting - that I could hardly bear the thought of never being able to see it again.


----------



## kg4fxg (May 24, 2009)

*Creativity?*

Is sounds strange what they will do to add an element of creativity. I have been often to the Ballet and Symphony but never to an Opera here in Atlanta.

I guess in some ways I still consider myself a beginner. Maybe I like too many things under the umbrella of classical/operatic music.

I just keep reading books, listening to pieces, reading reviews and of course spending money on music. Currently, I have 10 books on my desk and a stack of Gramophone and BBC Music magazines.

The books are...

Listen to the Music - Kramer
The Red Priest of Venice (Vivaldi) - Heller
Classical Music The Rough Guide
The Concerto - Steinberg
Inside Music - Hass
The Classic FM Guide to Classical Music - Nicholas
New York Times Essential Library Classical Music - Kozinn
Classical Music Without Fear - Tobias
What to Listen For in Classical Music - Copland
Evenings with the Orchastra - Holoman

Maybe I am approaching this all wrong, but I select a piece and listen to it 5 maybe 10 times and then read about the piece in all these books I bought over the years used off amazon for just pennies.

It can take weeks to read everything I have of a particular Concerto, movement of a Symphony or just a piece by a particular composer. I still have not learned it all!

Of course I will also study the actual score and study the markings. Compare different versions of a piece to the actual score and maybe learn the score myself. I read music but I think there is something there in the books and you don't have to read music to obtain great knowledge.

Interesting exercise to read the score which a CD is playing to see how a particular conductor interpreters the actual score. Or maybe I should say the score or version of it that I possess.

Reading the score is particularly helpful to me in understanding Haydn and what he does with themes. There is however many good resources out there that provide a thorough analysis of one of his scores much like a minute by minute commentary of a baseball game.

I am still a beginner trying to get out of the starting gate! The more I learn the more I see how inadequate my knowledge in the area of music.


----------



## PartisanRanger (Oct 19, 2008)

Elgarian said:


> Some very, very strange things are done in the name of 'creative production', I'm afraid. A recent production I saw of Mozart's _Seraglio_ changed much of the dialogue, significant parts of the plot, and involved the appearance of Wonder Woman and Superman. It's hard to see how that can actually be advertised as a Mozart opera. It was more like a Christmas panto.


Indeed. I went to a production of Don Giovanni that was "reinvented" as a tale about a frat guy in English and with completely new dialogue. It was a pretty big turn-off.


----------



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

Hi PartisanRanger,

I follow a few similar discussions on different forums - from what I have read so far, if a director decides to hurt opera like that, there is a lot of booing involved  I guess it can be sometimes creative to have a famous opera in an intriguingly different setting, but altering the libretto itself is where I would draw a line between finding new meaning and ruining it. Why so many directors hurt opera nowadays is beyond me. It is NOT about public demand. People are booing at this in live performances and ranting on forums. I hope some opera director could read that. We want REAL opera. Period.


----------



## xuantu (Jul 23, 2009)

ecg_fa said:


> I also personally feel that a good way to get 'used' to classical voice is to listen to lieder/song: very basic and stripped down, and of course here the words often matter more I suppose, but I like hearing voice 'bared' like this. Many disagree with me about that-- some even loving opera and hating lieder . I love both.


I like what you said about lieder, ecg_fa!

Being a new opera fan myself, I deeply identify with the O. P., as I once firmly decided not to like Wagner--how very wrong I was.

Currently my favorite opera is Benjamin Britten's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". It is fun, magical and colorful in both sound and music style. I wish to see it live.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2009)

katdad said:


> If you are looking for opera with "melody" -- traditional tunes, stay away from 20th century British opera -- it's essentially tuneless.


OUCH!! No, I mean it. This hurts my ears just to read it quietly to myself.

Ciel, do your ears a favor and ignore both this and mseger's additional traducement. For one, "traditional tunes" has little or no content. Great composers from at least Beethoven on have been accused of being tuneless, including that wild Russian modern, Tchaikovsky, who was so tuneless that years later, Hollywood used some of his melodies to make pop tunes out of. For two, the twentieth century is full of operas with melodies even katdad and msegers could enjoy, I'm sure. Britten, Poulenc, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Janacek, Kutavicius, Glass, Eotvos, Stravinsky, Bartok.

For three, why do melodies have to conform to katdad and mseger's ears. Turn about's fair play, eh? Maybe k and m could do a little ear training so that they could also enjoy Lachenmann and Ligeti and Tippet and Berg and so forth.

Otherwise, I'll tell you how I learned to like opera. I liked Janacek. A lot. (Still do, of course.) But once you've listened to a few pieces for orchestra, a couple of concertos, the two string quartets and a handful of other things, that's it for you.

Unless you listen to opera. Well, I really liked Janacek (did I mention?), so I grit my teeth and went to see _Jenufa_ when I was in Wien once. Delightful!! And when I returned to the U.S., I bought all his operas. Hours and hours more of Janacek music. Wow.

I tried this with Berlioz, too. Delightful. Prokofiev. Success. Dvorak. Super. Smetana, Saint-Saens, Poulenc, Britten, Shostakovich, Berg. Soon I was buying operas by composers I'd never listened to before, just because I knew it would be fine. (My first Kutavicius was his opera _Lokys._ Then I went to the other stuff, orchestral, choral, chamber.)

Opera has gotten this reputation for being something odd, something more difficult to enjoy, something different from ordinary music. It's not. It's all just music. If you like Dvorak's sixth (and who doesn't?), there's really no way you're going to dislike _Rusalka._


----------



## msegers (Oct 17, 2008)

I said, "There are many treasures in the opera of the 20th century, but I don't recommend that anyone begin with _Erwartung_," anymore than I would suggest that a novice mountain climber begin with Mt. Everest. Most of my posts on talkclassical.com are about Bartók and Messiaen, and today, I made four posts on Twitter about links to the music of Claude Vivier online. I cherish those three composers, but I would not suggest that people wanting to learn to enjoy opera make _Bluebeard_, _Saint-François_, or _Kopernicus_ their first exposure.

For many people opera itself is enough of a hurdle, and I think many who already cherish opera have difficulty with twentieth-century works.


----------



## Guest (Aug 4, 2009)

And I have decided not to decide for other people what will be difficult for them. For some people, _Bluebeard's Castle_ will be the perfect place to start listening to opera. A close friend of mine started with Ligeti's _Le Grand Macabre._) For someone else, _Peter Grimes_ might be exactly the thing. (This was an even closer friend, come to think of it!)

Hence my recommendation. Take a composer you already admire who also wrote operas and listen to those operas. I would venture to guess that someone who already likes Lachenmann's music will find his opera to be quite easy to take.


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I've been meaning to grow my opera collection, but I get so wound up with the film scores and concertos that I never come around to exploring them further. For now, I am stuck with only Fidelio, Carmen, and Hansel and Gretal (it was a gift, which I eventually happened to like). I, also, don't know where to continue.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Rondo said:


> I, also, don't know where to continue.


You could try this. More rock and roll than Elvis. Opera doesn't get more accessible than this.

Or try this. (For the first two minutes you may think you've stumbled into a strange ballet rather than an opera, but keep going.)


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

Elgarian said:


> You could try this. More rock and roll than Elvis. Opera doesn't get more accessible than this.
> 
> Or try this. (For the first two minutes you may think you've stumbled into a strange ballet rather than an opera, but keep going.)


Thanks, Elgarian. I'll remember those videos.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Rondo said:


> Thanks, Elgarian. I'll remember those videos.



















Handel Giulio Cesare

Rameau Les Indes Galantes


----------



## nickgray (Sep 28, 2008)

This:


----------



## JSK (Dec 31, 2008)

For something a little less famous, try Rimsky-Korsakov's Sadko as conducted by Gergiev. If you are looking for memorable characters and drama, it's not a great opera, but the music (especially the orchestration) is absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## SalieriIsInnocent (Feb 28, 2008)

I just had to post this. Nothing quite like Kurt Moll having a good time.


----------



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Kurt Moll will be forever remembered by me performing the first version of Schubert's _Wintereisse_... so Kurt Moll and "good time" just strike me as almost an oxymoron.


----------



## Portenor (Dec 20, 2009)

I think you need to listen to Una Furtiva Lagrima from Donizetti's l'elisir d'amore 3 versions you should listen to. Pavarotti, Fritz Wunderlich and Juan Diego Florez. Three very different performances but each has an really individual quality.


----------



## Rondo (Jul 11, 2007)

I've been getting my feet wet in opera lately and have noticed that some operas, and incidental music, have been translated from the original language in which they were written (and often not by the composer themself). What are some of the reasons for this?


----------



## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

Rondo said:


> I've been getting my feet wet in opera lately and have noticed that some operas, and incidental music, have been translated from the original language in which they were written (and often not by the composer themself). What are some of the reasons for this?


If you mean for example, operas sung in english but written in Italian, some people think this aids in opening up opera to a larger audience. Also opera used to be performed in the language of the audience irregardless of the libretto.

Personally I prefer the original because a translation wan change to story in certain ways.


----------



## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

I've been a huge opera fan,as well as a fan of all kinds of classical music for over 40 years,since I was a teenager.
One of the best ways to get into opera is to listen to complete recordings of them on CD. 
Most come with a booklet with a synopsis and sometimes an essay on the opera plus the libretto
in the original language plus an English translation right next to it. This way you can know exactly what the characters are singing about as well as getting familiar with the music.
There are zillions of complete recordings of opera on the market ,and there are so many versions of the most famous operas. 
Some of the most famous basic operas to start with would be Le Nozze di Figaro(The marriage of Figaro) , Don Giovanni, Die Zauberflote (The magic flute) and Cosi Fan Tutte (So do they all), by Mozart, Oefeo &Euridice (Orpheus and Euridice) by Gluck, 
Fidelio by Beethoven, La Traviata ,Aida, Rigoletto,and Il Trovatore by Verdi, La Boheme,Tosca and Madama Butterly by Puccini, Cavalleria Rusticana (Rustic chivaly),
by Pietro Mascagni, Pagliacci by Ruggero Leoncavallo, Bizet's Carmen, Faust by Charles Gounod,
Il Barbiere di Siviglia (The barber of Seville) by Rossini, Lucia di Lammermoor by Gaetano Donizetti, Manon by Jules Massenet, Norma by Vincenzo Bellini, and Der Freischutz(The freeshooter by Carl Maria von Weber.
The Wagner operas a re magnificent but very long and complex, so I would recommend getting to know these operas before you plunge into his. 
This is just a beginning. There are so many other wonderful operas you could get to know.
Then try DVDs of live performances, and most of these come with Englsih subtitles which you can access from the menu. 
You can also hear and see operas on the internet at various different sights, and check to see if the Metropolitan opera's live HD broadcasts are available at a movie theater near you, and by all means attend live performances if you get the chance. 
On the internet, try these websites: for the Met, metopera.org, and for opera news magazine,operanews.com. Get a subscription to this always very interesting magazine. 
You'll never regret becoming an opera fan!
A great place to order classical CDs and DVDs of opera is arkivmusic.com .


----------



## Ivan_cro (Mar 19, 2010)

I recommend: Met: Live in HD


----------



## Grosse Fugue (Mar 3, 2010)

Ivan_cro said:


> I recommend: Met: Live in HD


seconded

motion carried


----------



## mamascarlatti (Sep 23, 2009)

Opera is visual and dramatical as well as musical so I think you have to watch as well as listen

If you have a decent internet connection and US$15 a month, I recommend a subscription to Met Player 
http://https://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/index.aspx

About 50 Operas to watch and 200 to listen to. The Met is fairly conservative so the productions are often traditional (for example you can watch the only traditional Ring I know of) which is great for a beginner.

The only caveat is that anything earlier than Gluck is pretty much ignored, although there is a nice recording of Giulio Cesare.

Start with the Nozze di Figaro with Raimondi, von Stade, Battle etc. It's charming and funny:
https://www.metoperafamily.org/met_player/catalog/detail.aspx?upc=811357012406


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Un giorno di regno. The music is sublime but the plot is bonkers 

I've read lots of synopses & followed the libretto & still don't really understand it but considering its history I think it's amazing.


----------



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> And in the mean time, if anyone happens to have favourite arias that were not yet mentioned, I will be happy to see this thread becoming a "my favourite arias" thread.


I'm a neophyte just as you are, only having discovered opera about 9 months ago. So it may be that our tastes are similar ... or maybe not  In any case, I tend to go through phases where I can't get enough of a particular singer or aria for weeks at a time. My current infatuation is with The Song of Olympia (or the Doll Aria, or Les oiseaux dans la charmille).

As I mentioned, I'm still new, and tend to favor great overall performances to vocally perfect but dry renditions. That said, vocally, this is my favorite rendition:




 - I'm always in awe of Luciana Serra's coloratura.
But this is my favorite performance:




 Yes, it's amplified. But it's hilarious, and it's fantastic.

Another great performance by the same singer, Carla Maffioletti, here:




 About as enthusiastic a rendition of Heia in den Bergen as you'll find.

Similarly, something about Diana Damrau just really clicks for me. Odds are you've seen this, but if not this is a must watch:


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

rgz said:


> ...In any case, I tend to go through phases where I can't get enough of a particular singer or aria for weeks at a time. My current infatuation is with The Song of Olympia (or the Doll Aria, or Les oiseaux dans la charmille).
> 
> As I mentioned, I'm still new, and tend to favour great overall performances to vocally perfect but dry renditions. That said, vocally, this is my favorite rendition:
> 
> ...


Thank you for those clips. I have the Die Zauberflöte DVD & Damrau is amazing in that aria. Chilling!!

I am obsessive as well but in my case it's for a whole opera especially if it's one I going to see. It's La fille du régiment & Rigoletto at the moment.


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

People suggest arias....arias are not good, I'd suggest complete operas...Why? It's easy...You want to have the development not just a piece of cake but the whole cake.

Try small...A short opera....I saw La Bohème (Puccini) when I was 6 and I loved it, it's easy (as Danielle Steel), a lot of melody, a stupid story...everything to charm you as a beginner...after a while you will hate it and many years ago...you will like it again, as I do!

Sincerely,

Martin


----------



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the very best full opera to convert someone who is on the fence is the Natalie Dessay "Orphee Aux Enfers". Riotously funny, nearly every tune is ridiculously catchy, and one show-stopper of a song that everyone, no matter how ignorant of opera, is sure to know.

Caveat: The second act can drag just a bit. And, I still haven't seen the Petibon "Les Indes Galantes" so there may in fact be a superior option.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again: the very best full opera to convert someone who is on the fence is the Natalie Dessay "Orphee Aux Enfers". Riotously funny, nearly every tune is ridiculously catchy, and one show-stopper of a song that everyone, no matter how ignorant of opera, is sure to know.
> 
> Caveat: The second act can drag just a bit. And, I still haven't seen the Petibon "Les Indes Galantes" so there may in fact be a superior option.


Orphee Aux Enfers is indeed a good idea, and yes, that Dessay performance is so funny, especially the part with the fly. However it is operetta, not opera, so for the prospective fan it may be a little misleading, people will expect the same accessible and easy tunes when watching real operas without realizing that operettas are by definition lighter and funnier... Les Indes Galantes is spectacular but it is long and baroque music is a little unforgiving for the beginner. But yes, it's a good idea too, provided that it is the Les Arts Florissants performance.

I don't know, what do I think is best for a beginner? Maybe Carmen. Or La Traviata. Or Il Barbiere di Siviglia. Or the Magic Flute. These are all very enjoyable operas for people who haven't had lots of exposure to this genre.

I have exposed a few friends who were not opera lovers to La Traviata and it worked for a number of them, not all.


----------



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

Well true it is operetta, but I think that is what would make it an ideal choice. About as weighty as a musical, so the transition is easier, but with presentation and singing from a more classically-oriented standpoint.

But if we're ignoring operetta, than I'd maybe go with La Fille du Regiment. The problem with many choices is their length; my copy of Carmen clocks in at 2:50, my two Zauberflotes both around the same, my Nozze around 3 hours. That's a lot to ask of anyone just testing the water, so to speak. La Fille du Regiment is a brisk 2:11.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> Well true it is operetta, but I think that is what would make it an ideal choice. About as weighty as a musical, so the transition is easier, but with presentation and singing from a more classically-oriented standpoint.
> 
> But if we're ignoring operetta, than I'd maybe go with La Fille du Regiment. The problem with many choices is their length; my copy of Carmen clocks in at 2:50, my two Zauberflotes both around the same, my Nozze around 3 hours. That's a lot to ask of anyone just testing the water, so to speak. La Fille du Regiment is a brisk 2:11.


In this case, stuff like _Gianni Schicchi_ and _L'Heure Espagnole_ which are funny and melodic and both clock at about one hour should be ideal.


----------



## myaskovsky2002 (Oct 3, 2010)

*nothing else to say*

I know people who don't like opera... and, you know? The will never like opera, it is in their blood....

I like opera.

Martin Pitchon


----------



## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

I would like to know where Ciel_Rouge stands now in her/his relationship with opera and lieder. The last message is from 2009 and she/he has already let it be known that she/he is an opera fan and interested in lieder after having heard Schubert's Schwanengesang.


----------



## rgz (Mar 6, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I know people who don't like opera... and, you know? The will never like opera, it is in their blood....
> 
> I like opera.
> 
> Martin Pitchon


I don't know that this is necessarily true. The first time I ever attended an opera was in 2006, with my late wife. It made such an impression on me that ... I forgot I had even attended it until going back through some old emails a few weeks back. Then I stumbled onto opera again in 2009 and can't get enough. Sometimes you just have to be in the right place, time, and mindset.


----------



## Herkku (Apr 18, 2010)

Very few of us are born with a love for opera. From then on, we have traveled along many kind of paths to end up here.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

rgz said:


> I don't know that this is necessarily true. The first time I ever attended an opera was in 2006, with my late wife. It made such an impression on me that ... I forgot I had even attended it until going back through some old emails a few weeks back. Then I stumbled onto opera again in 2009 and can't get enough. Sometimes you just have to be in the right place, time, and mindset.


It''s an acquired taste, just like kids can't stand coffee, and adults love it.
Sorry to hear about your wife.


----------



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> I know people who don't like opera... and, you know? The will never like opera, it is in their blood....
> 
> I like opera.
> 
> Martin Pitchon


I didn't 'get' opera at all in my youth (wish I had) but via a circuitous route I ended up with a happy obsession for it.

Never say never ...


----------



## Saturnus (Nov 7, 2006)

myaskovsky2002 said:


> People suggest arias....arias are not good, I'd suggest complete operas...Why? It's easy...You want to have the development not just a piece of cake but the whole cake.
> 
> Try small...A short opera....I saw La Bohème (Puccini) when I was 6 and I loved it, it's easy (as Danielle Steel), a lot of melody, a stupid story...everything to charm you as a beginner...after a while you will hate it and many years ago...you will like it again, as I do!
> 
> ...


Seconded. 
Puccini is the most beginner friendly opera composer, because he is between the serious darkness of modern opera and the accessible lightness of classical opera. Before I saw Puccini's Suor Angelica, I sincerely thought opera was just some superficial junk phonies lied about liking to enhance their phoniness, and I always got the same nauseous feeling from opera as from Disney songs (the music of Hell). And this had nothing to do with the music itself, because classical music is with very few exceptions the only music I've ever liked.
It wasn't until I saw Suor Angelica that finally something clicked and I understood opera. I don't know why, maybe because Puccini feels so sincerely for the story he's composing about, but you get completely immersed, no matter how unfamiliar or hateful you are against opera.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Saturnus said:


> Seconded.
> Puccini is the most beginner friendly opera composer, because he is between the serious darkness of modern opera and the accessible lightness of classical opera. Before I saw Puccini's Suor Angelica, I sincerely thought opera was just some superficial junk phonies lied about liking to enhance their phoniness, and I always got the same nauseous feeling from opera as from Disney songs (the music of Hell). And this had nothing to do with the music itself, because classical music is with very few exceptions the only music I've ever liked.
> It wasn't until I saw Suor Angelica that finally something clicked and I understood opera. I don't know why, maybe because Puccini feels so sincerely for the story he's composing about, but you get completely immersed, no matter how unfamiliar or hateful you are against opera.


Weird. Suor Angelica is probably in my bottom five of least liked operas. Anyway, it's a matter of personal taste. I just would never have thought of proposing Suor Angelica to someone having a first contact with opera. Although recently a beginner who posts here (and now isn't such a beginner any longer) also got highly impressed with Suor Angelica, which was as well her first or one of her first full operas.

But you guys in my opinion are right with the idea of exposing a beginner to a full opera. My approach of suggesting arias was more like that of offering an user-friendly entry point, in which the beginner would sample some very good arias and get curious about the operas to which these arias belonged, in order to then get motivated to attend or see or listen to a full opera. But yes, the intended effect would be one of getting the person to see a full opera.


----------



## Saturnus (Nov 7, 2006)

I'd still recommend La Boheme to a beginner, simply because a lot of people say it was the first opera they liked and it's known for being the best beginner opera. I've yet to see it though, but since I've loved all Puccini so far, I think the Boheme would have done the same to me as Suor Angelica.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Yep, La Boheme is a crowd pleaser.
I've had luck with exposing beginners to La Traviata.


----------



## Gualtier Malde (Nov 14, 2010)

Carmen also seems a pretty reasonable choice for a first opera, especially since it's always nice to recognize some tunes.


----------



## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

Almaviva said:


> Weird. Suor Angelica is probably in my bottom five of least liked operas. Anyway, it's a matter of personal taste. I just would never have thought of proposing Suor Angelica to someone having a first contact with opera. Although recently a beginner who posts here (and now isn't such a beginner any longer) also got highly impressed with Suor Angelica, which was as well her first or one of her first full operas.


I'm not surprised by this. _Suor Angelica_, as we've discussed before, does tend to polarise opinion, so it has the capability either of _really_ turning people on, or (the downside) _really_ turning people off. If it had been the first opera I'd ever heard, I'd have fallen for it immediately, and the same is true of my current obsession, _La Rondine_. But let's face it, no matter what we suggest as a first opera, there's a risk of a disastrous response. I was lucky - mine was _Gotterdammerung_, and it worked whizz-bam. But it might have gone badly wrong; and if it had been _La Traviata_ instead, I might still be living in the opera-free zone.


----------



## Almaviva (Aug 13, 2010)

Elgarian said:


> I might still be living in *the opera-free zone*.


Cute euphemism for Hell.


----------

