# Isn't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?



## atsizat

't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?


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## Taggart

No. 45 years in and still going strong.


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## Manxfeeder

Difficult? Quite the opposite for me. I've been with my wife since 1981, and I'm more crazy about her then when we were first married, because I know her more deeply now than I did then. It's only when you go together through all the joys and problems of life that you appreciate the connection that the two of you really have.

Of course, together we have a shared commitment to Christ, so we are both accountable to God for each other. and my focus is not on meeting my needs but on ministering to hers. And she also feels the same way about me. When two people mutually take their focus off themselves and onto the other, I think that is when they have entered into true love.


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## Art Rock

Together for 19,5 years, married for over 18,5. No problem whatsoever. It helps of course to make sure upfront that you have similar thoughts about crucial things (like having children or not, what to do when job situations change, etc).


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## Dorsetmike

"Man spends the majority of his life looking for the ideal woman - in the meantime he marries"

I eventually got it right with the second one, first was a 25 year disaster


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## Becca

What an odd question ... how long were your parents and grandparents together and how old are you?


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## starthrower

Marriage has its pros and cons. You definitely give up a certain amount of freedom. I don't get out and see my friends as much. But my wife and I both love music and enjoy conversing on any number of subjects. She is more religious than I'll ever be, but she is open minded as well. I don't think I could be married to a fundamentalist. That would never work. I got married rather quickly and later in life after being in an unmarried relationship for 25 years. I'm still friends with my ex, and it's better that way. My wife and I are more compatible.


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## SixFootScowl

To stick with one girl all your life you must be wise in choosing and both of you must be committed to God's standard of lifelong union. It helps if she is good looking, helpful, forgiving, caring, etc.--and a good cook!


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## Room2201974

atsizat said:


> 't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?


No, not at all, as long as you find the right girl.

"It takes two to be friends
It takes two to be lovers
You know you got it made
When you got one just the 
Same as the other"


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## Bulldog

I guess it wasn't difficult for me - will be happily married 50 years this coming June.

For some folks, it seems to be impossible - bad decisions and processes. I've known a few guys who were man-whores; they felt that they were too wonderful to restrict themselves to only one woman (and they were all married).


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## starthrower

Fritz Kobus said:


> To stick with one girl all your life you must be wise in choosing and both of you must be committed to God's standard of lifelong union. It helps if she is good looking, helpful, forgiving, caring, etc.--and a good cook!


You mean you don't want to spend your life with a ugly chick that can't cook? My ex was gorgeous, and a fabulous cook, but a bit too independent and aloof. My wife is good looking, an okay cook, but she really loves me, and is much more committed to me, so I'm a lucky man.


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## philoctetes

Nothing worth doing is easy.


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## Tikoo Tuba

You stick to family . If you didn't start it , yooz not responsible to finish it .


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## Bulldog

philoctetes said:


> Nothing worth doing is easy.


So true. It is a challenge to for a married couple to be "as one" while also allowing for the individuality of each partner.


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## SixFootScowl

> If you want to be happy for the rest of your life
> Never make a pretty woman your wife
> So for my personal point of view
> Get an ugly girl to marry you


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## Ingélou

I feel very fortunate - not only do I still love my husband as much as ever after 45 years, but I still fancy him just as much too. 

That isn't to say that we don't have some spectacular rows sometimes. 

But I think it helps that we both feel committed to monogamy.


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## hpowders

OP:

YES!! YES!! They tend to get older and less better looking. Better to recycle. Turn in the old. Start anew with the young!


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## Ingélou

hpowders said:


> OP:
> 
> YES!! YES!! They tend to get older and less better looking. Better to recycle. Turn in the old. Start anew with the young!


If they'll have you - it's a Big Ask!


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## SixFootScowl

Ingélou said:


> If they'll have you - it's a Big Ask!


He's going to have to have a lot of money to pull that one off.


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## Becca

Fritz Kobus said:


> He's going to have to have a lot of money to pull that one off.


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## Guest

I salute all you who have been together 40-50 years! I'm looking forward to that! I'm at 14.5, and couldn't be happier. We aren't in as good of shape when we first married. Looks fade, but you don't notice if, like someone said, you are more concerned with serving your spouse than satisfying yourself. My wife is the best person I know, and she has given me the happiest moments in my life, from our wedding day, to our two boys, and now the little girl that we are in the process of adopting. As a single guy, I had no notion what married life would be like. Now I can't stand the thought of being without her. Put your spouse first, before all, and make sure you choose wisely - and then you will have a wonderful life with your best friend. Who cares about all that pre-marriage stuff that you "miss out on." It won't bring you anywhere near the joy.


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## Bulldog

DrMike said:


> I salute all you who have been together 40-50 years! I'm looking forward to that! I'm at 14.5, and couldn't be happier. We aren't in as good of shape when we first married. Looks fade, but you don't notice if, like someone said, you are more concerned with serving your spouse than satisfying yourself. My wife is the best person I know, and she has given me the happiest moments in my life, from our wedding day, to our two boys, and now the little girl that we are in the process of adopting.


It's good to hear about the adoption. It's a big challenge but the rewards are fantastic!!


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## Guest

Bulldog said:


> It's good to hear about the adoption. It's a big challenge but the rewards are fantastic!!


We are in Hungary to adopt - it has been a long process, and we are ready to finally be at the end with our little girl only a week away from being forever ours. It has been one of the most difficult things I have ever done, and my wife and I have leaned on each other quite a bit through the process, beginning with the anger and frustration of a far too difficult process to adopt foster children in the U.S. that ultimately screwed us out of that option, forcing us to look abroad. But we are now seeing that the work and wait was worth it.


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## moggi1964

DrMike said:


> We are in Hungary to adopt - it has been a long process, and we are ready to finally be at the end with our little girl only a week away from being forever ours. It has been one of the most difficult things I have ever done, and my wife and I have leaned on each other quite a bit through the process, beginning with the anger and frustration of a far too difficult process to adopt foster children in the U.S. that ultimately screwed us out of that option, forcing us to look abroad. But we are now seeing that the work and wait was worth it.


Good luck and enjoy your 'new expanding family'.


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## hpowders

Ingélou said:


> If they'll have you - it's a Big Ask!


I'm afraid to ask.


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## rodrigaj

Fritz Kobus said:


> He's going to have to have a lot of money to pull that one off.


With money in your pocket you are wise, you are handsome, and you sing well too. (Jewish proverb)


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## Iota

DrMike said:


> We are in Hungary to adopt - it has been a long process, and we are ready to finally be at the end with our little girl only a week away from being forever ours. It has been one of the most difficult things I have ever done, and my wife and I have leaned on each other quite a bit through the process, beginning with the anger and frustration of a far too difficult process to adopt foster children in the U.S. that ultimately screwed us out of that option, forcing us to look abroad. But we are now seeing that the work and wait was worth it.


Very best of luck with that. I seem to have known a number of people who were adopted children. It seems to me one of the most generous, significant and potentially wonderful gestures a human being can make.


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## Krummhorn

Been married for a total of 44 years . . . not to the same gal. First two died within two years of our divorce ... I saved lots of money there! 

Marriage #3 was to a barracuda - figuratively - what a demanding cretin, had to know everything I was doing, who I was talking to on the phone, who sent me email, etc etc etc. Three years down the toilet there, but I came out unscathed financially as she made tons more money than I did at the time. 

Current wife and I have been together since 2004 - married since 208 - between us we have three sons (two are hers, one is mine) all in their 30's and with wives and family of their own. 

Sometimes we have to wait for the best to come along ... worked out great for us. Just about have the mortgage retired on the house, we are both retired from the full time grind of working for a living each drawing retirement/pensions and living quite comfortably, take cruises, and just plain enjoy life being together or doing our own thing. She likes to hike and read books, I like to play music and am also in a bowling league. 

Life is good ... I am happy and quite content.


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## clavichorder

I can't imagine it ever happening for me. Seems incredibly daunting. I wish I could, but there seem to be so many odds against me.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Reading these stories is very encouraging. It's important to hear real-life experiences and not just theory of what marriage could/would/should be like. I'm sure it was never 100% great marriages among you all, and had your struggles, but it's all about how your struggles were resolved, and how you got where you are now if you are happy.

Still single, and pretty isolated. Even one eligible bachelor in my life would be nice right now, but all the men I know in real life are already married, in a relationship, or just not interested in me personally. And it's very few of these men in total. I'm surrounded by women!


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## Strange Magic

Lust. Limerence. Love. In 1979, psychologist Dorothy Tennov published a ground-breaking book titled _Love and Limerence_. She defined limerence as that state of infatuation and obsession with another person sometimes variously described as falling head over heels in love or, as in _The Godfather_, The Thunderbolt. Tolstoy knew about limerence: he describes the state perfectly when Anna Karenina falls in love with Vronsky.. The key statement of limerence is "I am in love with X.". The key statement of love is 'I love X.". Anyone who is susceptible to limerence (I certainly am) knows immediately what Tennov is describing in her masterful book. A curious thing is her research showed that (only) about half of the general population experiences limerence, and I wonder if this correlates with similar findings that (only) half of the general population experiences chills and thrills/gooseflesh when hearing, seeing, or reading certain "thrilling" passages/images in music, books, etc. Aside from gross incompatibility, what can split a marriage are either simple sexual lust (assuming a non-limerent person wandering out of the relationship) or limerence, when one of the parties becomes limerent toward an outsider and the feeling is reciprocated with either lust or limerence).

Tennov tentatively theorized that limerence and the very strong attractive force or bond that characterizes it, evolved in humans to bind a couple together tightly enough to for the woman to conceive and bear a child and for the limerent couple to stay bonded long enough for the child to be nurtured for the key critical early 1-3 years, while the limerence binding its parents together evolves and matures into love. Think of limerence as Crazy Glue, and love as slow-curing epoxy. Tennov's work was and remains speculative, and certain questions remain. Tennov recognized this however and called her work such, and hoped _Love and Limerence_ would be a catalyst for further research. But as I posted above, anyone who has personally experienced The Thunderbolt--falling quickly and deeply in love--will immediately see the accuracy of Tennov's thesis.

I personally recognized and understood the state of limerence I found myself in on several occasions, and when I married, I understood that one had to choose which path to follow. 56 years of marriage to the same woman is the fruit of following my particular path, and it gets easier with every passing decade. So it is quite possible to stick with one girl for most of one's life, but for those of you (and me) susceptible to limerence, it hasn't been always easy.


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## Pat Fairlea

It can't be that difficult. Mrs Pat and I will reach our 43rd anniversary in a few weeks. And we don't do 'difficult'.


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## hpowders

OP: Seriously:I've been married to the same lady since 1987. We are both very different-she-craving people and hence, extroverted; myself-the complete opposite-finding in my music, almost complete fulfillment; and yet we get along very well, despite our differences. We "understand" each other. We have a big house-she's usually on the phone or Facetime with family and friends or cooking-she loves to cook and I am the lucky beneficiary. I can usually be found in a third bedroom converted into a music listening room. We occasionally "clash", but always manage to resolve "disagreements" quickly.
Successful relationships require work. It's not easy. Men and women are wired very differently and hence see things differently.

This is my second marriage and I thank the Benevolent Lord for sending this wonderful woman to me.

OP: Good luck in finding and holding on to "The One". :tiphat:


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## Guest

atsizat said:


> Isn't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?


Not quite able to say yet - AFAIK, Death is not immediately on the horizon, though it might be just around the corner, if you know what I mean.

In one sense, it's been very easy. Met in 1982 (I was 23, she was 21), courted in 1983, married in 1984. Once we got started, it all seemed the right thing to do. I would be lying if I were to say that I've never looked at another woman, but I can't foresee any change in my marital status.


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## Guest

I would add to that list: tedious, expensive, frustrating, patience-testing, heart-breaking, hit-your-head-against-the-wall wonderful experience there is. We have been working on this for 5 years in one form or another. We finally are in the final home stretch (2 weeks until it is finalized), and would be more excited if we weren't stuck in a very small town in Eastern Hungary with below freezing temperatures. But even knowing what it would be like, I'd still do it.


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## atsizat

Fritz Kobus said:


> To stick with one girl all your life you must be wise in choosing and both of you must be committed to God's standard of lifelong union. It helps if she is good looking, helpful, forgiving, caring, etc.--and a good cook!


The problem is, I am agnostic. The word God doesnt mean much to me if we go with religion.


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## Room2201974

Fritz Kobus said:


> both of you must be committed to God's standard of lifelong union.


Yeah, like Michal and David.


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## Art Rock

atsizat said:


> The problem is, I am agnostic. The word God doesnt mean much to me if we go with religion.


Only for religious people there is a strong connection between faith and marriage. For the rest of us, marriage is a commitment to one another, preferably for life, recorded by the state for practical purposes.


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## DaveM

Long term marriages have to survive through the several passages of life: the years of establishing ourselves in our vocations, the years of rearing children, the years of retirement. As we age and go through these passages, we are likely not the same people we were when we first met. One of the principles that helped our relationship survive is: Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy.


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## Guest

Fritz Kobus said:


> To stick with one girl all your life you must be wise in choosing and both of you must be committed to God's standard of lifelong union.


God's standards don't figure in our marriage and that's not proved a problem thus far.



Fritz Kobus said:


> It helps if she is good looking, helpful, forgiving, caring, etc.--and a good cook!


It also helps if you think about who _you _are and what _you _can bring to the union - what's _your _contribution!?


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## Ingélou

Fritz Kobus said:


> ... It helps if she is good looking, helpful, forgiving, caring, etc.--and a good cook!





MacLeod said:


> It also helps if you think about who _you _are and what _you _can bring to the union - what's _your _contribution!?


I don't know what FritzK is going to say, but - since I took his 'requirements for a wife' to be a joke - I would say that he brings a good sense of humour.

You've got me wondering what I bring to our marriage - certainly not good looks or good cooking, but I am quite enthusiastic & enjoy word games.


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## Guest

Ingélou said:


> I took his 'requirements for a wife' to be a joke


Me too. My italicising of 'you' was about 'you' generically. I wasn't meaning to point at Fritz specifically.


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## Ingélou

MacLeod said:


> Me too. My italicising of 'you' was about 'you' generically. I wasn't meaning to point at Fritz specifically.


Ah, sorry! :tiphat:


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## SixFootScowl

MacLeod said:


> Me too. My italicising of 'you' was about 'you' generically. I wasn't meaning to point at Fritz specifically.


I missed the italics also, but that part was meant tongue-in-cheek. What do I bring? I don't know. Ask my wife. She is still with me. Must be the money.


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## Zofia

For me I think no I am 15 the boy I like is my friend and only a little bit older than me. I hope we are married and have many children. When I tell friends and even some teachers that I wish to marry him and he would also like to be with me. Very strange reaction I am told to try many boys first and most of my friends do not understand at all...

I think how young people in particular girls are taught to be um promiscuous? Is very harmful and I congratulate all those here for much years married hopefully much more years to come.


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## Tikoo Tuba

It is wise to be committed young , and first to kindness .


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## EdwardBast

"Isn't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?"

I wouldn't know and never showed all that much inclination to find out! 



Zofia said:


> For me I think no I am 15 the boy I like is my friend and only a little bit older than me. I hope we are married and have many children. When I tell friends and even some teachers that I wish to marry him and he would also like to be with me. Very strange reaction I am told to try many boys first and most of my friends do not understand at all...
> 
> I think how young people in particular girls are taught to be um promiscuous? Is very harmful and I congratulate all those here for much years married hopefully much more years to come.


Those advising you to "try many boys" are probably not suggesting promiscuity - at least I hope not, or, at least, I hope not for its own sake. What they are probably trying to tell you is that fifteen year-old people are almost never equipped to make decisions of that kind because their values, goals and world views are not fully formed. In my opinion, promiscuity is less dangerous to a young person (who is careful and smart about it) than committing to another person at too young an age. That kind of callow decision is the root of much misery. More important, romantic relationships are an excellent way to discover things about life and people. Those that don't last and even those doomed from the start can be invaluable learning experiences.


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## Becca

EdwardBast said:


> That kind of callow decision is the root of much misery. More important, romantic relationships are an excellent way to discover things about life and people. Those that don't last and even those doomed from the start can be invaluable learning experiences.


The problem is often that many do not learn from their first mistakes!


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## eugeneonagain

Becca said:


> The problem is often that many do not learn from their first mistakes!


Because they keep being told there is only one way to be happy.


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## Becca

Zofia said:


> For me I think no I am 15 the boy I like is my friend and only a little bit older than me. I hope we are married and have many children. When I tell friends and even some teachers that I wish to marry him and he would also like to be with me.


The expectation that someone in their mid-teens will be the same type of person 10 or 20 years later is often at the root of failed relationships. That goes for both parties to the relationship.


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## Larkenfield

Some individuals are apparently fated to be together throughout their entire lives. I've seen it. A former neighbor of mine had met his future wife in elementary school and they ended up being happily married for over 65 years. Though it's rare, there is such a thing as a one-man woman or a one-woman man. Those who stay together for their entire lives are not doing it because they feel _obligated_ to do it; they're doing it out of genuine love because they _want_ to do it. But when somebody is young, they might think that they're one of those people when it may not be their dharma and they may just not have found out yet because they're still too young. Then there are others who may not be called to marry at all for physical, creative, or perhaps even spiritual reasons out of a sense of obligation to serve others in a deeper humanitarian way. It's been referred to as having a 'calling' in life. But it seems that whether one literally marries or not, one is going to end up being married to _something_ or _someone_ that one hopes is inspiring and positive.


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## EdwardBast

Larkenfield said:


> Some individuals are apparently fated to be together throughout their entire lives. I've seen it. A former neighbor of mine had met his future wife in elementary school and they ended up being happily married for over 65 years. Though it's rare, there is such a thing as a one-man woman or a one-woman man. *Those who stay together for their entire lives are not doing it because they feel obligated to do it; they're doing it out of genuine love because they want to do it.* But when somebody is young, they might think that they're one of those people when it may not be their dharma and they may just not have found out yet because they're still too young. Then there are others who may not be called to marry at all for physical, creative, or perhaps even spiritual reasons out of a sense of obligation to serve others in a deeper humanitarian way. Some people refer to it as having a 'calling' in life. But it seems that whether one literally marries or not, one is going to end up being married to _something_ or _someone_ that one hopes is inspiring and positive.


Sorry Lark, but this blanket statement about why people stay together is delusional. Of course some do so out of a pure and unquestioned love, but some do it for security, some out of laziness, some because they are sadists who have found the perfect victim, and thousands upon thousands just because they're Catholic!


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## Luchesi

Tikoo Tuba said:


> It is wise to be committed young , and first to kindness .


We should get married three times.

Once while young. Again when grown up. Again when slowing due to age.

We're at least three different people, three different unions for three different sets of interconnections.

If you're intelligent enough to find the right person, to make the compromises, and to find the way, you can grow and thrive in one marriage (or two). You would be very lucky, I guess.


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## Guest

I was lucky second time round, he is a real easy going sweetie. We are the perfect match in every way.


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## Guest

@ EdwarardBast. Why did you end your reply with people stay together with "just because they are Catholic?"


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## haydnguy

I waited 53 years to find the right one. We've been together for 11 years. It's worth the wait. :kiss:


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## Guest

poco a poco said:


> @ EdwarardBast. Why did you end your reply with people stay together with "just because they are Catholic?"


Because, surely, the Catholic Church disapproves of divorce. Such couples stay together because of Church teaching, regardless of the state of the relationship.

It would be interesting to know for how many couples this is true.


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## CnC Bartok

EdwardBast said:


> Those that don't last and even those doomed from the start can be invaluable learning experiences.


Hindsight's a wonderful thing!!!!


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## Zofia

Becca said:


> The expectation that someone in their mid-teens will be the same type of person 10 or 20 years later is often at the root of failed relationships. That goes for both parties to the relationship.


Thank you all will not reply to everyone just out of time. Much thanks Becca I know that we've spoke about it he is older than I and did not want to "date" someone my age at the time so we have waited for a bit. That being so I think two people can grow together.

We will likely wait until I am 20 roughly before marriage talk. My Mother married at 19 and is 53 this year it worked well for them. I do know I want to be with him you get the feeling and are sad when they are not there. Plus he is very handsome if I was not a good Christian ooff...



haydnguy said:


> I waited 53 years to find the right one. We've been together for 11 years. It's worth the wait. :kiss:


I am happy to read this wish you much happy years together.


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## Barbebleu

I've always been baffled by the idea that your ideal partner was someone you met when you were young. There are billions of people on this planet so is it not more likely that your perfect partner is among them rather than living a few streets away?

I'm on my second happy marriage and we celebrate our silver wedding this November but we're under no illusions, given that neither of us has met everyone else in the world, that there might be someone out there just as ideally compatible for both of us.


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## EdwardBast

poco a poco said:


> @ EdwarardBast. Why did you end your reply with people stay together with "just because they are Catholic?"


Because divorce is a mortal offense against Catholic doctrine and a one way ticket to eternal damnation. It is forbidden. Those who have ended a consecrated marriage through divorce are barred from ever marrying again within the Church.



Zofia said:


> Thank you all will not reply to everyone just out of time. Much thanks Becca I know that we've spoke about it he is older than I and did not want to "date" someone my age at the time so we have waited for a bit. That being so I think two people can grow together.
> 
> We will likely wait until I am 20 roughly before marriage talk. My Mother married at 19 and is 53 this year it worked well for them. I do know I want to be with him you get the feeling and are sad when they are not there. *Plus he is very handsome if I was not a good Christian ooff...*


I'm not sure on what basis you've concluded that Jesus was a fan of chastity. Be that as it may, many later Christian sects, including the Catholics, have used a cult of virginity to keep women in line and ignorant, elevating "The Blessed Virgin" to quasi-divine status. I advise you to date boys your age and tell the man waiting for you to do the same.


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## Zofia

EdwardBast said:


> Because divorce is a mortal offense against Catholic doctrine and a one way ticket to eternal damnation. It is forbidden. Those who have ended a consecrated marriage through divorce are barred from ever marrying again within the Church.
> 
> I'm not sure on what basis you've concluded that Jesus was a fan of chastity. Be that as it may, many later Christian sects, including the Catholics, have used a cult of virginity to keep women in line and ignorant, elevating "The Blessed Virgin" to quasi-divine status. I advise you to date boys your age and tell the man waiting for you to do the same.


He is only like a year and a bit older...

I refuse to reply further to you you seem like a spiteful person.


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## Zofia

Ingélou said:


> You've got me wondering what I bring to our marriage - certainly not good looks or good cooking, but I am quite enthusiastic & enjoy word games.


I know you are much older than I but I saw your profile picture even when looks fade with age but I still think you are pretty. Ignoring this what more can one wish for than good taste in music and good scrabble player?

Someone told me you are married to Taggart I think it is very wonderful you share so much in love for music you are both here together.


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## eljr

atsizat said:


> 't it very difficult to stick to one girl all your life till the death?


Love is an act of commitment.

Hence, if you are both committed and stay as such you will be with one girl to your death.

Pretty straight forward stuff.


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## eugeneonagain

eljr said:


> Love is an act of commitment.
> 
> Hence, if you are both committed and stay as such you will be with one girl to your death.
> 
> Pretty straight forward stuff.


That's the thing though; and why it isn't always so simple. People change. You can both start out committed, but then one of you becomes less committed. Not necessarily stopping loving, but the love changing. Sometimes not even that.

It remains a risky investment and undertaking.


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## Zofia

eugeneonagain said:


> That's the thing though; and why it isn't always so simple. People change. You can both start out committed, but then one of you becomes less committed. Not necessarily stopping loving, but the love changing. Sometimes not even that.
> 
> It remains a risky investment and undertaking.


I am sure many would say marriage is not always perfect but before modern times it was not so easy just to say I quit at this. People change but if you love them for who they are then the change should not matter if the love is still there?

I cannot see why people today are so anti-marriage like some of my friends. Yet they want someone to be with and look after and look after them in turn. Seems only logic to be married in my opinion even without bringing in the religious reason.


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## SixFootScowl

MacLeod said:


> Because, surely, the Catholic Church disapproves of divorce. Such couples stay together because of Church teaching, regardless of the state of the relationship.
> 
> It would be interesting to know for how many couples this is true.


God created us to be married for life. This is the basis for marriage in all the Christian Church, and I say that meaning true Christians wherever they may be found, Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Baptist Church, etc, and some in far away places with no church to attend.


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## SixFootScowl

EdwardBast said:


> Because divorce is a mortal offense against Catholic doctrine and a one way ticket to eternal damnation. It is forbidden. Those who have ended a consecrated marriage through divorce are barred from ever marrying again within the Church.
> 
> I'm not sure on what basis you've concluded that Jesus was a fan of chastity. Be that as it may, many later Christian sects, including the Catholics, have used a cult of virginity to keep women in line and ignorant, elevating "The Blessed Virgin" to quasi-divine status. I advise you to date boys your age and tell the man waiting for you to do the same.


From a Biblical standpoint there is absolutely no value in dating anyone unless that person is a prospective marriage partner. Yes Jesus was not a "fan" of chastity. This was not a case of a fanatic. He knew the truth and promulgated it as the only acceptable standard. Here is the standard of the Bible: "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)


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## Zofia

MacLeod said:


> Because, surely, the Catholic Church disapproves of divorce. Such couples stay together because of Church teaching, regardless of the state of the relationship.
> 
> It would be interesting to know for how many couples this is true.


All Churches disprove of divorce. Yet it is only ever singled out for Roman Catholic church. I cannot help but feel there is a bias against it. In modern times at least in Germany there are many Catholics who are divorced, I know one couple at my church used to be married and are not now.


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## SixFootScowl

eugeneonagain said:


> That's the thing though; and why it isn't always so simple. People change. You can both start out committed, but then one of you becomes less committed. Not necessarily stopping loving, but the love changing. Sometimes not even that.
> 
> It remains a risky investment and undertaking.


This is why it is wise to be solidly grounded in the truth of the Bible and only marry someone who is likewise solidly grounded in truth. Once the marriage commitment is made it is only broken by sinful actions of one or both partners to the marriage. If the couple remain in the Word of God and study diligently to grow in faith, then they will be much stronger to remain together. This is a matter of honouring God not self, of doing what is right over and above personal sinful desire.


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## EdwardBast

Zofia said:


> He is only like a year and a bit older...
> 
> I refuse to reply further to you you seem like a spiteful person.


I apologize. Because of the way you were making an issue of age I assumed it was a significant difference.


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## Zofia

EdwardBast said:


> I apologize. Because of the way you were making an issue of age I assumed it was a significant difference.


Thank you I understand now had mentioned our ages before but maybe not this thread my fault. He is from the UK moved here 5 years ago. I think the age of dating in UK and Germany is different so it made more problem for him than me.

Admit I take offense in thinking it was some sort of arranged marriage but I see you misunderstood. =)


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## Barbebleu

I'm not sure that commitment belongs only to those that have faith. Marriage is a contrivance of humanity as are most things. Religion holds no monopoly on commitment.

In the immortal words of Crosby, Stills and Nash - If you can't be with the one you love, then love the one you're with!:lol:


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## eugeneonagain

Fritz Kobus said:


> This is why it is wise to be solidly grounded in the truth of the Bible and only marry someone who is likewise solidly grounded in truth. Once the marriage commitment is made it is only broken by sinful actions of one or both partners to the marriage. If the couple remain in the Word of God and study diligently to grow in faith, then they will be much stronger to remain together. This is a matter of honouring God not self, of doing what is right over and above personal sinful desire.


I'd like to, but the Bible is nothing to do with the truth of anything. What you are describing is people adhering to the same sort of ideology and life-purpose and that, of course, always tends to make people somewhat compatible, but it is not being a person it is being a container for an ideology.

All of that is only valid if people accept the idea of being together as you have sketched it out, but I see no valid reason why they should. Compatibility doesn't necessarily mean being the same, it means learning to live together and understand one another. Sometimes this comes easily because the people have adaptable personalities; sometimes it has to be worked at. Very often it just fails.
It matters also what people think of as a successful marriage. Traditionally they were about securing the means to live and even today many marriages that don't dissolve are more business than pleasure (lucky ones are a bit of both). If successful means happiness and love, then loads of marriages fail.

The quote you gave from Matthew 5:28 simply contradicts human biology and evolutionary trajectory and I can't really take it seriously. It's a cultural comment, not a basic truth about humanity.


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## philoctetes

Individual stability and satisfaction is important for long-term relationships between individuals. At least that's my excuse for my own dismal record in this department. Tolstoy said something quotable about big families and little families but I only know that from reading Nabokov and I'm too lazy to look it up now. I just know it ended badly for you-know-who. I prefer Turgenev who was more concise.

If people were "made" to be lifelong monogamists then I probably would be one. I am what is commonly known as a "serial monogamist", aka Romantic Fool. My parents stayed together until the end which I have a mixed appreciation for. I lived with many family mistakes as a teenager, not all my own but I blame myself anyway. Perhaps you don't want to be like me, a dilettante cursed with perpetual perfectionism and a dissatisfied yearning to keep leaping obstacles I haven't yet overcome.

However watching from outside the marriage pool gives me a certain perspective others don't have, and confirms that the world is full of single-minded fools getting married, making a mess of it, and hurting their children and communities in the process. While my parents were guilty of over-discipline and moderate child abuse, now parents go dashing off into adultery as a way to fix things with their spouses.

So I tend to believe that circumstances matter, and that on average couples are suited for staying together long enough to raise children to adolescence. Which side of that line applies to each couple depends on many factors and how they deal with the unexpected together. It has little to do with religion beyond a role as a stabilizing influence, but the bond between individual and institution can be mutable as well. Life is a long song.

Don't be mad at Edward Bast. Look up his screen name if you don't know where it came from. It will lead to what I consider one of the great American novels of the 20th century, from a writer who could certainly be considered spiteful but makes his reasons fabulously clear about that.


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## philoctetes

Raised in Protestant churches, then going through many "alternative" perspectives, I long thought of Catholicism as full of loopholes for sinners. I've known Catholics who seemed to believe second chances were simply for the asking (or confessing). But as a recovered screw-up myself I've come to be a believer in second chances which our society has become hypocritically stingy about lately. So while I don't intend to convert to anything between now and the hereafter, I have come to respect the principles of the church, if not so much the institution itself.


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## Bulldog

I regret that religion has entered this discussion.

Sometimes I think that good decision-making makes for good marriages. Other times, I figure it's just a matter of luck.


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## Zofia

philoctetes said:


> Raised in Protestant churches, then going through many "alternative" perspectives, I long thought of Catholicism as full of loopholes for sinners. I've known Catholics who seemed to believe second chances were simply for the asking (or confessing). But as a recovered screw-up myself I've come to be a believer in second chances which our society has become hypocritically stingy about lately. So while I don't intend to convert to anything between now and the hereafter, I have come to respect the principles of the church, if not so much the institution itself.


Not wanting to derail this into religion but I kind of am here but mean no harm. I am baptised RCC but I go to EKD and EOCC as well as my main church being RCC. Confession is not a get from jail free card but you will still answer to God when the time is right.

I do often wonder what it is like for protestants who are burdened with every sin till death. I have protestants in my own family it is not something they seem that much worried about when I ask.


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## Tikoo Tuba

Some cultures have found it sensible for young lovers to become mated ~age 14 yet not have intercourse until a child is wanted . I'm sure they could express this wisdom in religious terms .


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## Krummhorn

EdwardBast said:


> Because divorce is a mortal offense against Catholic doctrine and a one way ticket to eternal damnation. It is forbidden. Those who have ended a consecrated marriage through divorce are barred from ever marrying again within the Church.


I was under the impression that their existed a Declaration of Nullity, whereby a tribunal could be held.

"_For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed. In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged."
_
(Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church -1992)
Years back when I was considering marrying a Catholic girl a Monsignor told me that things could be "fixed" so that my previous marriage would be considered null and void and I could then re-marry without any feeling of eternal damnation.
I've been married 4 times ... the first two died ... the 3rd was a demanding witch who blamed me for everything going wrong in her life after we got married. I've yet to be zapped by a bolt of lightening ... I'm a baptized/confirmed Lutheran.

Kh


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## eljr

Zofia said:


> I am sure many would say marriage is not always perfect but before modern times it was not so easy just to say I quit at this. People change but if you love them for who they are then the change should not matter if the love is still there?
> 
> I cannot see why people today are so anti-marriage like some of my friends. Yet they want someone to be with and look after and look after them in turn. Seems only logic to be married in my opinion even without bringing in the religious reason.


The reason we see an increase in diverse and non marriages is affluence.

Affluence helps to eliminate the "need" that brought about marriage.

Guys got married for sex. To have regular access to it. Women got married for security for themselves and their children. 
Modern life, through affluence had lessened these prime divers.


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## eugeneonagain

Krummhorn said:


> Years back when I was considering marrying a Catholic girl a Monsignor told me that things could be "fixed" so that my previous marriage would be considered null and void and I could then re-marry without any feeling of eternal damnation.
> I've been married 4 times ... the first two died ... the 3rd was a demanding witch who blamed me for everything going wrong in her life after we got married. I've yet to be zapped by a bolt of lightening ... I'm a baptized/confirmed Lutheran.
> 
> Kh


4 times! I see you're a real Don Giovanni. Maybe a Monsignor can also fix it that you don't get carted off to the depths.


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## DeepR

I think with the right partner it isn't difficult (7 years and counting). We're not married, but we've expressed many times that we'll stay with each other for life. 
Looking for another mate; dating... the very thought of it is tiresome. I've looked for a loooong time and I really, really could not be bothered with all that again. I'll never find another match like her anyway.


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## Taggart

Please confine discussion of religion to the groups. A number of off topic posts have been removed.


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## Ingélou

It is difficult to stick with one spouse or partner until death - because stability of that sort is somewhat alien to human nature. 

Romanticised ways of looking at things - terms like Mr Right & The One & Marriages are made in heaven - can be the enemy of making marriages, because if the physical attraction dies or one sees the unromantic side of one's chosen mate, it gives the idea that one should look elsewhere in one's elusive quest for one's 'soul-mate'. 

But - paradoxically - not being romantic can also lead to marriage breakdown. I agree with people who say that marriage is basically about friendship, companionship, living a life in common, property arrangements, or co-parenting - but if that takes the 'mystique' out of marriage, it can make people see it as a business arrangement or 'just' a friendship. In real life, we can move house or choose a new friend, and so... 

I am lucky - I have a friend, someone who likes the same things I do, and someone I fancy all rolled into one. Yet even so we can have some savage rows. And not everybody is as lucky as me, meeting someone right for me just at the right time of my life. 

So yes - it's difficult. And yet there are millions of good marriages in the world. So it can be done. 

I think maybe one needs the will to do it, and a lot of good luck.


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## Desafinado

Married for the first time for.. 6 months, together for 6 years. We make a great pair and it's getting to the point where I can't envision not being with her. Her dying prematurely is one of the most horrifying things I can imagine.

There's that, and both of our parents have been married for 30+ years so that's usually a good sign.


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## Krummhorn

eugeneonagain said:


> 4 times! I see you're a real Don Giovanni. Maybe a Monsignor can also fix it that you don't get carted off to the depths.


That's 4 times in a Lutheran church ...


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## Larkenfield

If it doesn’t work out the first time... if all else fails… try, try again. :kiss: I don’t see how anyone can fully appreciate music without both heartbreak and love. That seems to expand one’s depth of hearing and a necessary understanding of the human condition that can make for meaningful relationships.


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## Becca

_"Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results."_ :lol:


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## Zofia

eljr said:


> The reason we see an increase in diverse and non marriages is affluence.
> 
> Affluence helps to eliminate the "need" that brought about marriage.
> 
> Guys got married for sex. To have regular access to it. Women got married for security for themselves and their children.
> Modern life, through affluence had lessened these prime divers.


Not true the higher you go up in income bracket the more likely you are to be married at least in Europe pretty sure it is the same in USA.

Personally I think poor and working class have been socialised to reject marriage to grow dependence on the state in place of a bread winner.


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## atsizat

It looks like I am the only one who is an agnostic on the forum. I doubt about the existance of god myself. I don't believe in religious. Maybe that is the reason why I don't find much sence in marrying a girl and stick to her till the death? 

Can you give me a reason to want to stick to one girl in my life till the death outside of religous? I mean outside of religion. There should be no god in the sentences.


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## Becca

atsizat said:


> It looks like I am the only one who is an agnostic on the forum. I doubt about the existance of god myself. I don't believe in religious. Maybe that is the reason why I don't find much sence in marrying a girl and stick to her till the death?


 Religion and marriage have little to do with each other. As to the sense, if you were a woman who would end up with the responsibility of raising your children, you might feel differently.


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## atsizat

Becca said:


> Religion and marriage have little to do with each other. As to the sense, if you were a woman who would end up with the responsibility of raising your children, you might feel differently.


I don't see much sense in marriage and having children as an agnostic. You can't eat the same food everyday if you know what I mean. If you eat the same food everyday, you will be bored.


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## Becca

And just what does being agnostic have to do with children? As to the rest, my sympathies to whoever you end up dating.


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## DaveM

atsizat said:


> I don't see much sense in marriage and having children as an agnostic. You can't eat the same food everyday if you know what I mean. If you eat the same food everyday, you will be bored.


It's important that you don't get married until you understand how counterproductive the above is to a close relationship with a woman. Not to mention that it also assumes that you are such a personable and good-looking dude that you'll be able to sample different women as frequently as you do food.


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## Zofia

atsizat said:


> I don't see much sense in marriage and having children as an agnostic. You can't eat the same food everyday if you know what I mean. If you eat the same food everyday, you will be bored.


Do not get married purely for the sexual part in fact I would maybe think you should not get married ever if your only concern is "how much food you can eat" to use your metaphor.

If you find someone you think you want to journey in life with and would help you make good children then it is wise to be married. My Granpa and Grandma are 80 and 85 will both retire this year in April from work. I doubt what they want is what someone my age to maybe 30s wants physical.

That said they married when my Grandma was 19 and been together 61 year. They support each other in spirit and emotional with love and that is what marriages is about. Why face thr world alone it is a dark place?


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## CnC Bartok

atsizat said:


> I don't see much sense in marriage and having children as an agnostic. You can't eat the same food everyday if you know what I mean. If you eat the same food everyday, you will be bored.


The guaranteed path to lifelong loneliness.....


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## starthrower

Any of you re-married folks miss your ex? It's a weird feeling. Randy Newman wrote a song about it.


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## atsizat

Zofia said:


> Do not get married purely for the sexual part in fact I would maybe think you should not get married ever if your only concern is "how much food you can eat" to use your metaphor.
> 
> If you find someone you think you want to journey in life with and would help you make good children then it is wise to be married. My Granpa and Grandma are 80 and 85 will both retire this year in April from work. I doubt what they want is what someone my age to maybe 30s wants physical.
> 
> That said they married when my Grandma was 19 and been together 61 year. They support each other in spirit and emotional with love and that is what marriages is about. Why face thr world alone it is a dark place?


I don't believe in love. Love does not last forever.


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## DaveM

atsizat said:


> I don't believe in love. Love does not last forever.


A self-fulfilling prophecy.


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## Becca

atsizat said:


> I don't believe in love. Love does not last forever.


I suggest that you learn the difference between love and lust.


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## atsizat

Becca said:


> I suggest that you learn the difference between love and lust.


without believing any religion?


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## Guest

atsizat said:


> It looks like I am the only one who is an agnostic on the forum. I doubt about the existance of god myself. I don't believe in religious. Maybe that is the reason why I don't find much sence in marrying a girl and stick to her till the death?
> 
> Can you give me a reason to want to stick to one girl in my life till the death outside of religous? I mean outside of religion. There should be no god in the sentences.


I don't know what makes you think that you're the only "agnostic" - there are certainly plenty of people here who doubt the existence of God and "don't believe in religious". I've stuck to one girl because I want to, not because of any religious conviction.



atsizat said:


> I don't believe in love. Love does not last forever.


That's alright. It only has to last a lifetime...well, two lifetimes, if you get what I mean.

It's quite possible that I'm deluding myself if I think I still love my wife of 37 years acquaintance (and 35 of marriage come this April) and that she still loves me. I'm sure that the kind of love we felt in our mid-twenties has been replaced by a different kind of attraction. And something may yet happen to disrupt our future. But I can't see it at the moment.


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## Becca

atsizat said:


> without believing any religion?


Religion has nothing to do with it.


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## Tikoo Tuba

Religion is conservative of wisdom , yet not pretentiously wise . Questioning is acceptable . There is no authority . Be Romeo and Juliet , age 14 , in peace .


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## Larkenfield

Relationship helper to stick with your mate for a lifetime:
http://clipart-library.com/adhesive-cliparts.html


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## atsizat

Larkenfield said:


> Relationship helper to stick with your mate for a lifetime:
> http://clipart-library.com/adhesive-cliparts.html


How about marrying your first relationship in your life?


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## eljr

Zofia said:


> Not true the higher you go up in income bracket the more likely you are to be married at least in Europe pretty sure it is the same in USA.
> 
> Personally I think poor and working class have been socialised to reject marriage to grow dependence on the state in place of a bread winner.


I did not misspeak. My statement can be corroborated with just a little research. I was not offering an opinion, I was speaking to established social science.

Further, my statement did not speak to different socioeconomic groups within society but rather to society today vs society in the past.

Sorry I was not more clear, my bad.


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## eljr

atsizat said:


> How about marrying your first relationship in your life?


A very good idea if that person and you are both ready to commitment to each other.

In this way you grow together. The older one gets the harder it becomes to adjust your life to another's.

There is science behind this. We, as humans build physical pathways which become more set with age.


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## eugeneonagain

Zofia said:


> Not true the higher you go up in income bracket the more likely you are to be married at least in Europe pretty sure it is the same in USA.
> 
> Personally I think poor and working class have been socialised to reject marriage to grow dependence on the state in place of a bread winner.


That's a novel theory. The governments of the last 35 years have done their level best to shrink the state and largely succeeded, so who is socialising them to grow dependent upon the state, when that section of the state has been shrunk the most?!

Also, who says being married is an alternative to 'the state' or even a successful alternative. Who is the breadwinner? Why can't breadwinners be unmarried?

The higher you are up the income bracket the more people marry for reasons other than just love. Maybe some people recognise marriage for what it largely is: a way of tying-up official recognition of partnership for legal reasons. Not just an act of committing to love, even when that is but one of the motivations.

Lots of questions to be asked and holes to be plugged here.


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## SixFootScowl

eugeneonagain said:


> The governments of the last 35 years have done their level best to shrink the state and largely succeeded...


I find this hard to believe. Do you have any examples of this with supporting data?


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## eugeneonagain

Fritz Kobus said:


> I find this hard to believe. Do you have any examples of this with supporting data?


You must be joking. It's like asking for 'supporting data' that Bach wrote good counterpoint.

It could end up as a very long reply, which in truth I'm not willing to write in-full. The beginning of it starts in the mid-1970s with the rise of the ideologically-driven 'public choice theory'. However, I'll go with a few examples and I'm concerned with the UK and Europe (which are much more often labelled as "nanny states").

We could start off with the fact that more than half of council-owned social housing - we'll call it 'affordable housing - has been sold off, to some occupiers; put under stewardship of housing corporations (which are essentially run as private housing businesses); or simply demolished and the land sold to developers. There are no replacements. Do a search on 'affordable housing shortage' and add the name of any European country.

Skipping forward... The infamous 2008 crash was a marvellous moment for the heirs to Thatcher and others like her. The 'making savings' approach to economic austerity centred on dismantling help to the most needy people. Cuts to things like transport to and from schools for disabled children and for disabled pensioners. Easy targets who can't fight back. Then yet another campaign to portray a 'benefits culture' of people stealing from hard-working people in order to whip up anger and discontent and make massive cuts easier to carry out. Cuts to so-called 'state dependency'.

The officially policy of the World Bank has been to advise those countries seeking assistance on how to reduce their spending _at the very bottom of society _as a central bargaining chip in exchange for assistance. A condition imposed by ideologues who seek to privatise every aspect of the world - except corporate welfare and their own benefits.

Which brings us neatly to 'state dependence' for massive corporations which continues unabated. Like the £800 million Nissan has extracted from the British taxpayer for 'financial assistance' and 'development grants' and discounted land. The story is the same over the economy with either bailouts or state support for private companies or ex-public companies that were privatised supposedly to make them more efficient.

So...as I stated in the post to which you replied, the part of the state Zofia was referring to is the part were most shrinkage has occurred. Therefore it would be most odd for people to be eschewing marriage in favour of something that isn't there. Not that I think there is a meaningful either/or choice anyway.

Plus, you'd think that if 'the state' was trying to get people off its 'teat' (as the right-wing likes to put it) they would go all out for things like same-sex marriage to get even more people off the books.


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## StrangeHocusPocus

I'm a one girl a day guy myself


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## starthrower

StrangeHocusPocus said:


> I'm a one girl a day guy myself


Eddie, are you kidding me?


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## Becca

I'm a stay away from "a one girl a day guy" girl


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## 1996D

StrangeHocusPocus said:


> I'm a one girl a day guy myself


It's the best way to be until you're at least 40, then you marry a girl half your age and have a family. Marriages work best when the man has seen it all.

That's if getting women comes easy, because if so you'll never be faithful if you marry young.


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## Larkenfield

StrangeHocusPocus said:


> I'm a one girl a day guy myself


Let's hope you don't meet up with a one guy a day girl or you might regret it. Discretion in the use of one's body parts is the better part of desire. There are viruses out there the size of a Volkswagen Beetle.


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## Bulldog

1996D said:


> It's the best way to be until you're at least 40, then you marry a girl half your age and have a family. Marriages work best when the man has seen it all.
> 
> That's if getting women comes easy, because if so you'll never be faithful if you marry young.


I always had good luck with women, married early, and have been faithful. You strike out - go to the minor leagues.


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## Zofia

eugeneonagain said:


> That's a novel theory. The governments of the last 35 years have done their level best to shrink the state and largely succeeded, so who is socialising them to grow dependent upon the state, when that section of the state has been shrunk the most?!
> 
> Also, who says being married is an alternative to 'the state' or even a successful alternative. Who is the breadwinner? Why can't breadwinners be unmarried?
> 
> The higher you are up the income bracket the more people marry for reasons other than just love. Maybe some people recognise marriage for what it largely is: a way of tying-up official recognition of partnership for legal reasons. Not just an act of committing to love, even when that is but one of the motivations.
> 
> Lots of questions to be asked and holes to be plugged here.


% born out of wedlock 
% of signle parents clamming state aid for a child?

This has decreased over your given time-span compared to historical norms?

Also I'd argue the entertainment industry and education try their best to depict Motherhood as not desirable. Today's female characters in western media are effectively men but portrayed by women.

Social securities are certainly not shrinking here can't speak for the USA.


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## StrangeHocusPocus

Larkenfield said:


> Let's hope you don't meet a one guy a day girl or you might end up in trouble.


But how would I know?


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