# Composers who are active in other creative fields



## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

I thought this might be an interesting topic. Who are some composers that were active, successful, or renowned for their works in other fields aside from music? 

To start off with an example, Arnold Schoenberg was an enthusiastic and accomplished painter in addition to his music career. Robert Schumann wrote music criticism and started his own famous music journal. I’ve even heard him referred to as the greatest music critic of all time by someone who really cared about such things. Guillaume de Machaut was also famous in his time as a poet. 

Anyone else? I’m curious.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

William Herschel wrote a lot of symphonies and other music. To my memory he also:

- Built the finest and largest telescopes of his time
- Discovered nebulae and invented the cataloging system for stars still used
- Determined that double stars revolve around their common center of gravity
- Discovered infrared radiation
- In a famous and then-unparalleled feat, forecast the position of and then observed and discovered the planet Uranus.

Even Haydn made the pilgrimage to Herschel's observatory to look through his latest telescope. Sadly, his music has to be accounted second-rate.

Another scientifically-inclined composer, Saint-Saens, conducted experiments to discover if earthworms could hear music. I have been unable to discover the outcome of his investigations.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Borodin was a chemist.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Borodin was a chemist.


Borodin was also something of an activist. He "founded the School of Medicine for Women in Saint Petersburg, where he taught until 1885."


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Tchaikovsky was a well-known music critic in Russia, especially active from 1867 to 1878.

Vivaldi and Holst were teachers in girls' schools. Too many composers to list were at least as well known, in their times, as conductors or virtuoso instrumentalists.


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

Other than Mily Balakirev, the Mighty Handful did not consist of professional musicians and three of them were not musicians by trade at all:

-Cesar Cui was an Engineer-General in the Russian Army, and taught fortification construction and strategy as well as writing books on the subject.

-Rimsky-Korsakov was an officer in the Russian Navy.

-Alexander Borodin, as mentioned above, was a chemist and a doctor, making significant breakthroughs in organic chemistry

-Many composers also pursued conducting, especially of their own music. 

-Jean-Jacques Rousseau also pursued philosophy, as most everybody knows.

-Charles Ives was an extremely successful insurance salesman; he made almost no money off of composing.

-Ignacy Paderewski was a politician.

-Percy Grainger was a sadomasochist.

-Peter Warlock was an occultist; who would've thought.

-Carlos Gesualdo was a prince, cuckold, and a killer, in that order.

-The popular composer Friedrich Nietzsche was also occasionally a philosopher.

-Erik Satie was an author and a real weirdo.

-John Cage was an anarchist, surprising absolutely no one.

-Iannis Xenakis was an architect, and some might even argue that he was only an architect.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

"Rimsky-Korsakov combined his composition and teaching with a career in the Russian military-at first as an officer in the Imperial Russian Navy, then as the civilian Inspector of Naval Bands." -- quoted from Wikipedia


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

Nietzsche isn't the only philosopher to try his hand at composition. Jean-Jacques Rousseau also composed some not-all-that-bad operas.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

chu42 said:


> ...Charles Ives was an extremely successful insurance salesman; he made almost no money off of composing.


Ives was much more than an insurance salesman. "…he and his friend Julian Myrick formed their own insurance agency Ives & Co., which later became Ives & Myrick, where he remained until he retired. During his career as an insurance executive and actuary, Ives devised creative ways to structure life-insurance packages for people of means, which laid the foundation of the modern practice of estate planning. His _Life Insurance with Relation to Inheritance Tax_, published in 1918, was well received. As a result of this he achieved considerable fame in the insurance industry of his time…"


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ETA Hoffman, main character in Offenbach's _Tales of Hoffman_, whose literary characters inspired musical works from Schumann's _Kreisleriana _to Tchaikovsky's _Nutcracker_, was himself a part-time composer.

Hoffman also wrote a *quite famous review* of Beethoven's 5th Symphony for the AMZ: "Beethoven's music sets in motion the machinery of awe, of fear, of terror, of pain, and awakens that infinite yearning which is the essence of romanticism."


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## BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist (Jan 13, 2019)

Messiaen was an ornithologist.


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

I listened to Paul Bowles's piano work recordings on Naxos, which are fine short pieces. Bowles collected Morocco music that can be heard on the excellent 4-disc set, _Music of Morocco from the library of Congress, recorded by Paul Bowles 1959_.

I also enjoyed Anthony Burgess's The Bad-Tempered Electronic Keyboard: 24 Preludes and Fugues, played by Stephane Ginsburgh (piano, not Casiotone that the title refers to.) It is a rich collection of works employing styles of Bach to modern/contemporary. Burgess composed over 250 works.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Franz Berwald, finding that “music made a thin soup,” started a practice in Berlin designing and making orthopedic appliances (false limbs, etc.) that proved profitable. He also managed a glass factory.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

CPE Bach studied law. "In an age of royal patronage, father and son alike knew that a university education helped prevent a professional musician from being treated as a servant."

Myslivecek started his music career in his twenties.
_"Mysliveček was born in Prague, one of twin sons of a prosperous mill owner, and studied philosophy at Charles-Ferdinand University before following in the footsteps of his father. No documentation exists to support claims that he was actually born in Horní Šárka, a rural district to the north and west of Prague in the early eighteenth century. He achieved the rank of master miller in 1761, but gave up the family profession in order to pursue musical studies."_

Wagner was the librettist and costume designer for his own operas.

Schubert was a school teacher.
"He left the Stadtkonvikt at the end of 1813, and returned home to live with his father, where he began studying to become a schoolteacher; despite this, he continued his studies in composition with Antonio Salieri and still composed prolifically."


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## tortkis (Jul 13, 2013)

Mikalojus Konstantinas Čiurlionis (1875-1911) was a Lithuanian composer and painter. I have Northern Flowers albums of his orchestral works and string quartets.


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## NLAdriaan (Feb 6, 2019)

Mahler in his day was more famous as a conductor than as a composer


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## MarkW (Feb 16, 2015)

Bernard Shaw did not compose, but was a famous, knowledgable, and controversial (naturally) music critic when he wasn't writing plays or trying to remake society.


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## annaw (May 4, 2019)

Wagner was a prolific writer - he wrote poems, articles on a very wide range of subjects, published multiple books.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

The greatest composer of the 14th century was also that century's greatest poet.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Maybe not composers, but superb musicians, Leopold Godowsky Jr. and Leopold Mannes invented Kodachrome film.

Swedish composer Kurt Atterberg was a civil engineer who ran the Swedish Patent Office in addition to writing a vast amount of music. Some of it is quite fine, too.

Actor, writer, director Charlie Chaplin was also a composer. He wrote soundtracks for several of his films, although how much writing he did is questionable. Others took dictation, did the arranging and orchestration. His greatest hit is the immortal song "Smile".


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Boulez was a dictator.


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## Littlephrase (Nov 28, 2018)

Room2201974 said:


> The greatest composer of the 14th century was also that century's greatest poet.


Judging by the fact that both Dante and Petrarch are from the 14th century and neither are composers, I'll have to disagree strongly with this.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Schoenberg was an artist.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Wasn't Verdi a farmer?

Philip Glass was a cabbie and a plummer during the early years of his composing.

Holst was a high school teacher.


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## The nose (Jan 14, 2014)

Anthony Burgess is worldwide known as a writer (especially for _A Clockwork Orange_) but he also was a talented composer, and this aspect is really often present in his writings. There's some of his works on Spotify


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## The nose (Jan 14, 2014)

Berlioz was sent by his father to medicine school but he attended very little of it so I don't know if it counts :lol:

Edit: I just remembered that he also wrote some novels which are quite interesting!


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

NLAdriaan said:


> Mahler in his day was more famous as a conductor than as a composer


True for many today. Segerstam, Knussen, Esa-Pekka Salonen


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

arpeggio said:


> I am surprised that no one has mentioned that Schoenberg was an artist.


Schoenberg was my first example in the OP :lol:


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## flamencosketches (Jan 4, 2019)

Erik Satie also founded his own church: the Metropolitan Church of the Art of Jesus, the Conductor. Sounds like my kind of religion.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

Apparently, the alleged composer of the famous English folk song Greensleeves also plied his trade as a church founder, monastery abolisher, wife beheader and treasury emptier.

It's probably not true.

Like Holst, George Butterworth was a school teacher. Taught at my old school, although for technical reasons we did not overlap.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Sir Anthony Hopkins is a composer, too. Might sound good over liver and a nice chianti.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/8344670/Sir-Anthony-Hopkins-the-composer.html

And if anyone remembers him, long time TV personality and game show host Hugh Downs is also a composer. The Phoenix Symphony has played some of his music over the years. Not bad.
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/hugh-downs-mn0001596165/compositions


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## Eva Yojimbo (Jan 30, 2016)

Not a classical composer, but I've always found it fascinating that Bruce Dickinson, lead singer for Iron Maiden, is also a licensed commercial airline pilot, successful beer brewer, novelist/scriptwriter, and a world-class fencer. Been interested for a while in reading his autobiography as that's a pretty amazing diverse range of interests!


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Room2201974 said:


> The greatest composer of the 14th century was also that century's greatest poet.





Littlephrase1913 said:


> Judging by the fact that both Dante and Petrarch are from the 14th century and neither are composers, I'll have to disagree strongly with this.


... not to mention a non-composer pilgrim-poet name of Chaucer! Oops! Seems I mentioned him, didn't I?


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

And then there's Benjamin Franklin. Yes, _that _Benjamin Franklin.









https://www.post-gazette.com/uncate...-in-cheek-string-quartet/stories/200607300156

[video]http://old.post-gazette.com/downloads/20060730franklin1.mp3[/video]


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## chu42 (Aug 14, 2018)

SONNET CLV said:


> And then there's Benjamin Franklin. Yes, _that _Benjamin Franklin.
> 
> View attachment 124293
> 
> ...


I mean, he invented the armonica. Benjamin was a real Rennaisance man.


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Eva Yojimbo said:


> Not a classical composer, but I've always found it fascinating that Bruce Dickinson, lead singer for Iron Maiden, is also a licensed commercial airline pilot, successful beer brewer, novelist/scriptwriter, and a world-class fencer. Been interested for a while in reading his autobiography as that's a pretty amazing diverse range of interests!


Just last week, conductor Daniel Harding announced he's taking a year off from conducting duties to be a commercial pilot. These people with multiple high-level skills are annoying!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

flamencosketches said:


> Schoenberg was my first example in the OP :lol:


I apologize for missing that


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I guess what I am taking away from this thread is that very few noted musicians/composers were active in other _creative _fields. It almost seems to call for an explanation. Of course, the interests and occupations that composers have had are interesting and not doubt have creative aspects.


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## Fabulin (Jun 10, 2019)

Enthusiast said:


> I guess what I am taking away from this thread is that very few noted musicians/composers were active in other _creative _fields. It almost seems to call for an explanation. Of course, the interests and occupations that composers have had are interesting and not doubt have creative aspects.


Music is extremely time-consuming. Those who try to do it part time do succeed in creating music, but not in getting to the cutting edge. It's just not possible to compete with all the prodigies and talents, who work daily from a young to very old age, unless one is one of them and does as they do. Tchaikovsky said something about how Borodin was a chemistry professor who only did music on weekends, and was not competitive enough as a result.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

flamencosketches said:


> I thought this might be an interesting topic. Who are some composers that were active, successful, or renowned for their works in other fields aside from music?


Machaut 
Henry VIII
Paderewski


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

^ Could be. But many presumably very busy people from other fields managed to be amateur painters and even gifted amateurs. Winston Churchill who managed to be a British Prime Minister, wrote numerous long books of history and drank for the nation is an example. But perhaps people can only afford one creative field, whatever their other interests and professions might be.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Could be. But many presumably very busy people from other fields managed to be amateur painters and even gifted amateurs. Winston Churchill who managed to be a British Prime Minister, wrote numerous long books of history and drank for the nation is an example. But perhaps people can only afford one creative field, whatever their other interests and professions might be.


Based on my reading of British history, the words "creative" and "prime minister" rarely come in contact with each other. ....And if you think WC was really creative one only has to look to Galliopi..... But I did like his multi volume history of WWII. Meanwhile, Boris the spider is, in the words of Pete Townsend...... "creepy, crawly, creepy crawly" and none of it appears creative.

As far as Machaut goes, I think it's high time for someone to take on and perform an ENTIRE Dit....perhaps _Le Voie Dit_ in concert. Perhaps then his true stature will be recognized. (Yes, they are on CD, but what I'm suggesting is the Met.) My very first college lecture about 12 tone tone referenced Merchant, i.e, there are more things in Harmony, my students, than are dreamt about in your philosophy.


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## Ethereality (Apr 6, 2019)

Literati have been commonly surprised to know Hildegard of Bingen was a famous composer.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Charles G. Dawes, later vice-president under Calvin "Silent Cal" Cooldge, wrote a tune called Melody in A. It was always popular, but gained lyrics in the 1950s as "It's all in the Game (of Love)" and became a #1 hit.

Wiki notes: "Dawes is the only vice president to be credited with a No. 1 pop hit. Dawes and Sonny Bono are the only people credited with a No. 1 pop hit who were also members of the United States Senate or House of Representatives. Dawes and Bob Dylan are the only persons credited with a No. 1 pop hit to have also won a Nobel Prize."

Here's Keith Jarrett playing it.


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

Room2201974 said:


> Based on my reading of British history, the words "creative" and "prime minister" rarely come in contact with each other. ....And if you think WC was really creative one only has to look to Galliopi..... But I did like his multi volume history of WWII. Meanwhile, Boris the spider is, in the words of Pete Townsend...... "creepy, crawly, creepy crawly" and none of it appears creative.


I wouldn't claim creativity in their days jobs for any of them - and I certainly don't view their contributions through rose tints - but I was responding to your suggestion that composers were too busy to get involved in another art and pointing out that being busy doesn't always stop people from putting time into a creative hobby.


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## Room2201974 (Jan 23, 2018)

Enthusiast said:


> I wouldn't claim creativity in their days jobs for any of them - and I certainly don't view their contributions through rose tints - but I was responding to your suggestion that composers were too busy to get involved in another art and pointing out that being busy doesn't always stop people from putting time into a creative hobby.


Although it wasn't my suggestion, I agree....Boris could put his wine box creations up for sale and help finance Brexit. Seriously, composers usually don't have time to become an expert in another field that's true, although the dozen or so composers I've known have all been fascinated with other art forms.

Which is why, returning to a favorite theme of mine, Machaut is so unusual. But hey, few read or understand Middle French, or know the concept of "natural music" and so he is vastly under-appreciated as a poet. His ranking in this forum as a composer in one thread was 113 or so....which is crazy and if anything shows a certain prejudice toward the Ars Nova. But his work as a poet and a composer in my mind puts him in a very select group as one of the most important artists of all time. Sure, Dante and Petrarch of his day deserve kudos, but neither could write a polyphonic Mass. In the vernacular of baseball, Machaut was a five talent star, he could run, hit for average, hit for power, had great range at shortstop and a powerful arm.*

* The double play combination of Guillaume at shortstop and his brother Jean at second base was a winning duo for the Rheims Rangers.


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