# Round Three Elektra Monologue Contest: Grob Prandl and Borkh



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

To round out this Elektra marathon are two superlative dramatic sopranos who some may not be familiar with. Gertrude Grob Prandl was the Vienna house soprano, had a voice bigger than the great Nilsson, and had a more Italiante sound to her voice according to some. It is hard to believe she sang with such power without hurting her voice but she had a long career.Inge Borkh was noted as being a very exciting performer and I find her voice most pleasing. She originally trained as an actress.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

What a deliciously demented showing by Grob-Prandl whom I have never heard of. But the lady gets my vote for this performance, hands down. (As usual, I am sure I still sit here alone in my little corner. It's getting cozy here. Just me and me.)


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I believe I'm now suffering from Elektra exhaustion, and I have no idea what medical specialty deals with that condition. Perhaps a dose of Bellini would cure it? That sounds good, but before I go I'll just cast a vote here for Gertrude Grob-Prandl. Both ladies are vocally up to their assignment, but I like the snarl in G-P's low notes. It's curious, but the only performance of the six we've heard that makes Elektra sound like a half-tolerable person is Nilsson's - curious, because her vocal timbre is often characterized as "cold." Maybe so, but she manages a suggestion of softness and vulnerability I don't hear from any of these other hysterical harridans.

Am I the only one who suspects this, but did Richard Strauss harbor a secret wish that he had been born fifty years earlier and been named Johann? When I listen to _Elektra_ (which I no longer do except out of a sense of social responsibility), I keep imagining crystal chandeliers hanging in the temple of Dionysus.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

nina foresti said:


> What a deliciously demented showing by Grob-Prandl whom I have never heard of. But the lady gets my vote for this performance, hands down. (As usual, I am sure I still sit here alone in my little corner. It's getting cozy here. Just me and me.)


You have company in your corner today. Sorry to drop in unannounced.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Interestingly, I found Miss Grob-Prandl's version a bit well-schooled, especially in the _acuti_, rather like she was holding back - I like my *Ekektra*s to be more unhinged, as Miss Borkh shows us in her recording.

Unlike Woodduck, I have no _Elektra Fatigue_ and would even welcome a Recognition Scene contest!






There's an audio-only version with Inge Borkh, conducted by Dmitri Mitropoulos that is incandescent.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> You have company in your corner today. Sorry to drop in unannounced.


Well kind sir, that deserves a cuppa coffee or a glass of bubby, if you prefer.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Woodduck said:


> Am I the only one who suspects this, but did Richard Strauss harbor a secret wish that he had been born fifty years earlier and been named Johann?


He probably wanted to be Richard II of German Romanticism.


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## Dimace (Oct 19, 2018)

Inge, as I have in this community written, is for me the best German Speaking Dramatic Soprano. Mannheims Pride takes my vote all the way through. Her voice's intensity was, is and will be incomparable. We miss you Ingeborg! Thanks for this one.


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## The Conte (May 31, 2015)

You've left the best til last! I prefer both these two to the previous singers (sorry Nilsson fans!)

Borkh's more lyrical version or the unhinged drama of Grob-Prandl?

I'm going with Borkh. As much inner drama as outer and less relenting than Grob-Prandl's more overt approach.

N.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Dimace said:


> Inge, as I have in this community written, is for me the best German Speaking Dramatic Soprano. Mannheims Pride takes my vote all way through. Her voice's intensity was, is and will be incomparable. We miss you Ingeborg! Thanks for this one.


I remembered that and checked her out. She sounds more lyrical, maybe best served in small European houses, but I only know what I hear. She is fabulous.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I believe I'm now suffering from Elektra exhaustion, and I have no idea what medical specialty deals with that condition. Perhaps a dose of Bellini would cure it? That sounds good, but before I go I'll just cast a vote here for Gertrude Grob-Prandl. Both ladies are vocally up to their assignment, but I like the snarl in G-P's low notes. It's curious, but the only performance of the six we've heard that makes Elektra sound like a half-tolerable person is Nilsson's - curious, because her vocal timbre is often characterized as "cold." Maybe so, but she manages a suggestion of softness and vulnerability I don't hear from any of these other hysterical harridans.
> 
> Am I the only one who suspects this, but did Richard Strauss harbor a secret wish that he had been born fifty years earlier and been named Johann? When I listen to _Elektra_ (which I no longer do except out of a sense of social responsibility), I keep imagining crystal chandeliers hanging in the temple of Dionysus.


Next up Rossini. Shall we declare Nilsson winner and go on to the next or have a final contest here. Nilsson seems to have the biggest following. Glad people participate!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

MAS said:


> Interestingly, I found Miss Grob-Prandl's version a bit well-schooled, especially in the _acuti_, rather like she was holding back - I like my *Ekektra*s to be more unhinged, as Miss Borkh shows us in her recording.
> 
> Unlike Woodduck, I have no _Elektra Fatigue_ and would even welcome a Recognition Scene contest!
> 
> ...


Let's see how interest is. I love that scene and Flagstad did it even. Not everyone who can sing the rest of the role can handle it. Caballe would be great for it.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Let's see how interest is. I love that scene and Flagstad did it even. Not everyone who can sing the rest of the role can handle it. Caballe would be great for it.


Yes, I recently saw the video of that concert and was surprised she sang even that little piece of it, though it's the most lyrical passage of the score, vocally.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Seattleoperafan said:


> Let's see how interest is. I love that scene and Flagstad did it even. Not everyone who can sing the rest of the role can handle it. Caballe would be great for it.


Lovely as the music is, I'd prefer to move on to other repertoire. But as you and the majority will...

Flagstad's recognition scene was recorded too late, as were her Four Last Songs. She never sang Elektra, and my guess is that she didn't find the character appealing and wouldn't have projected the craziness very well.


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Lovely as the music is, I'd prefer to move on to other repertoire. But as you and the majority will...
> 
> Flagstad's recognition scene was recorded too late, as were her Four Last Songs. She never sang Elektra, and my guess is that she didn't find the character appealing and wouldn't have projected the craziness very well.


Agreed, her voice character is too placid.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

MAS said:


> Interestingly, I found Miss Grob-Prandl's version a bit well-schooled, especially in the _acuti_, rather like she was holding back - I like my *Ekektra*s to be more unhinged, as Miss Borkh shows us in her recording.
> 
> Unlike Woodduck, I have no _Elektra Fatigue_ and would even welcome a Recognition Scene contest!
> 
> ...


Not to be too curmudgeonly (though it may be too late for such scruples), but having just listened to this - nicely done by Rysanek - I can't imagine what Strauss is doing in the several minutes following the recognition. The "aria" is exquisite, but then the music just meanders. I don't remember what Elektra is talking about, but the music does nothing to jog my memory or hold my interest. Pre-Wagner, a composer would probably have proceeded with some recitative to take us to the next dramatic or lyrical patch. Too bad that wasn't an option for Strauss.

I have a theory - I call it that because I don't spend much time with his operas - that Strauss was too fond of talky, "literary" texts, loaded with an abundance of words that don't lend themselves to musical elaboration, forcing him to fill stretches of time with often clever but fairly inexpressive and even aimless orchestral note-spinning - sheer busyness - and unmemorable vocal lines. I'm not sure that this affects too much of _Elektra,_ which maintains a fairly high dramatic temperature, but I find it in all his operas to one degree or another. It's a pitfall of through-composed opera, which the older recitative-aria structure, where you can separate the talky parts from the emotionally weighty ones, neatly avoids. Wagner doesn't avoid the problem entirely, but he performs extraordinary acts of brinksmanship through his keen sense of form; Verdi, whose late style as exemplified by _Otello_ and _Falstaff_ evolved from the earlier tradition, also proved masterful at maintaining clarity of thought and direction, and Puccini had a near-infallible sense of pace and proportion. It's as if German composers - I'm thinking not only of Strauss but of Berg and Schoenberg, as well as the likes of Pfitzner and Schreker - felt challenged by Wagner to create "profound" or "philosophical" drama, and found themselves working against the emotional directness which is the essential nature of opera, and which the Italians understood perfectly. Wagner himself pointed this out as he praised Bellini's ability to say much with little.

Just some musings inspired by whatever it is that Elektra is singing about after she's finished really singing.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> Not to be too curmudgeonly (though it may be too late for such scruples), but having just listened to this - nicely done by Rysanek - I can't imagine what Strauss is doing in the several minutes following the recognition. The "aria" is exquisite, but then the music just meanders. I don't remember what Elektra is talking about, but the music does nothing to jog my memory or hold my interest. Pre-Wagner, a composer would probably have proceeded with some recitative to take us to the next dramatic or lyrical patch. Too bad that wasn't an option for Strauss.
> 
> I have a theory - I call it that because I don't spend much time with his operas - that Strauss was too fond of talky, "literary" texts, loaded with an abundance of words that don't lend themselves to musical elaboration, forcing him to fill stretches of time with often clever but fairly inexpressive and even aimless orchestral note-spinning - sheer busyness - and unmemorable vocal lines. I'm not sure that this affects too much of _Elektra,_ which maintains a fairly high dramatic temperature, but I find it in all his operas to one degree or another. It's a pitfall of through-composed opera, which the older recitative-aria structure, where you can separate the talky parts from the emotionally weighty ones, neatly avoids. Wagner doesn't avoid the problem entirely, but he performs extraordinary acts of brinksmanship through his keen sense of form; Verdi, whose late style as exemplified by _Otello_ and _Falstaff_ evolved from the earlier tradition, also proved masterful at maintaining clarity of thought and direction, and Puccini had a near-infallible sense of pace and proportion. It's as if German composers - I'm thinking not only of Strauss but of Berg and Schoenberg, as well as the likes of Pfitzner and Schreker - felt challenged by Wagner to create "profound" or "philosophical" drama, and found themselves working against the emotional directness which is the essential nature of opera, and which the Italians understood perfectly. Wagner himself pointed this out as he praised Bellini's ability to say much with little.
> 
> Just some musings inspired by whatever it is that Elektra is singing about after she's finished really singing.


A most interesting and knowledgeable treatise. I really learned something new. My thanks.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Not to be too curmudgeonly (though it may be too late for such scruples), but having just listened to this - nicely done by Rysanek - I can't imagine what Strauss is doing in the several minutes following the recognition. The "aria" is exquisite, but then the music just meanders. I don't remember what Elektra is talking about, but the music does nothing to jog my memory or hold my interest. Pre-Wagner, a composer would probably have proceeded with some recitative to take us to the next dramatic or lyrical patch. Too bad that wasn't an option for Strauss.
> 
> I have a theory - I call it that because I don't spend much time with his operas - that Strauss was too fond of talky, "literary" texts, loaded with an abundance of words that don't lend themselves to musical elaboration, forcing him to fill stretches of time with often clever but fairly inexpressive and even aimless orchestral note-spinning - sheer busyness - and unmemorable vocal lines. I'm not sure that this affects too much of _Elektra,_ which maintains a fairly high dramatic temperature, but I find it in all his operas to one degree or another. It's a pitfall of through-composed opera, which the older recitative-aria structure, where you can separate the talky parts from the emotionally weighty ones, neatly avoids. Wagner doesn't avoid the problem entirely, but he performs extraordinary acts of brinksmanship through his keen sense of form; Verdi, whose late style as exemplified by _Otello_ and _Falstaff_ evolved from the earlier tradition, also proved masterful at maintaining clarity of thought and direction, and Puccini had a near-infallible sense of pace and proportion. It's as if German composers - I'm thinking not only of Strauss but of Berg and Schoenberg, as well as the likes of Pfitzner and Schreker - felt challenged by Wagner to create "profound" or "philosophical" drama, and found themselves working against the emotional directness which is the essential nature of opera, and which the Italians understood perfectly. Wagner himself pointed this out as he praised Bellini's ability to say much with little.
> 
> Just some musings inspired by whatever it is that Elektra is singing about after she's finished really singing.


You could be on to something, but in Klytemnestra's monologue there is some wonderful orchestral mood making I wouldn't want to do without.


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## nina foresti (Mar 11, 2014)

I think I've had my Elektra fill and am ready to go back to other offerings.


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

Thank you Seattle for a truly excellent thread. Maybe Salome next please?


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Barbebleu said:


> Thank you Seattle for a truly excellent thread. Maybe Salome next please?


Thanks for the appreciation! The problem with Salome and lots of Wagner is the selections are just too long for many people to sit through in repeated listenings for a contest. Salome could be fun. I like Jessye Norman a lot in her Salome recording which she recorded before she lost weight but her voice is certainly not the right type for a young woman. Still, it is glorious. You KNOW that prophet's head has appeared!


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