# Nostalgia for the "good ole days" of classical performances- What is legendary today?



## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

*Nostalgia for the "good ole days" of classical performances- What is legendary today?*

My friend Ben, my stepdad Powell, and I had a huge conversation this morning about the meaning of "legendary" in the classical music world and it seems like many people seem to pine away for the good old days of classical performances of the 1950's and 1960's. I am curious why there is nostalgia for the so-called golden era of classical music, particularly with opera singers.

For example, my stepdad had heard Sutherland sing live many many times and he claims that he can't capture the glory days in today's singers. I must have fewer ties to the past because I can definitely see legendary status for Renee Fleming and even Elina Garanca too.

Same with instrumentalists. Can a Mutter compare to the Milstein of the past?

Huge question is: What does it mean to be a legend in classical music? I think that it means that people whose intellectual approach to the performance will outlast their deaths and even recordings.

Second question is who are the legends for today of which I mean performers after 1990 which the cutoff point for my stepdad not seeing anyone worthy in his eyes, especially with bel canto singing?

For example, I vote for Hilary Hahn and Renee Fleming easily as legends of our time. (I met Hahn in person and she is definitely very intellectual in her approach to violin playing.)

Maybe I am blind but I just don't see this golden era of classical music as anything more than an emotional tie to a non-existent historical idea.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

albertfallickwang said:


> Maybe I am blind but I just don't see this golden era of classical music as anything more than an emotional tie to a non-existent historical idea.


I think certainly there's a lot of nostalgia involved, and also these days there's generally less of an inclination to put performers on pedestals.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Nereffid said:


> I think certainly there's a lot of nostalgia involved, and also these days there's generally less of an inclination to put performers on pedestals.


I know that the classical music marketing arm is larger in today's world than before so perhaps that hides a lot more legendary status. It's not like Angela Hewitt is getting more exposure than Lang Lang here.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

albertfallickwang said:


> I am curious why there is nostalgia for the so-called golden era of classical music, particularly with opera singers.


Because it's a thing that exists. Whatever the thing is, there are always those who think the olden days were the Golden Age.

There are differences, of course. If you like old school, non-HIP influenced Bach or Mozart, you won't be so happy with our era.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Add Juan Diego Florez to the list of legends of today.


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## Ludric (Oct 29, 2014)

I definitely believe there is a nostalgic bias for performers of old. As for great operatic singers of today, Cecilia Bartoli is certainly a living legend.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I heard Artur Rubinstein, Nathan Milstein and Van Cliburn, all three live. Those three were all legendary.

I heard Rubinstein perform Debussy and Chopin; Cliburn the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No. 1 and Milstein, the J.S. Bach Second Partita for unaccompanied violin.


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## StevenOBrien (Jun 27, 2011)

Nereffid said:


> I think certainly there's a lot of nostalgia involved, and also these days there's generally less of an inclination to put performers on pedestals.


I'm not so sure. I only really got into classical music around 2009, and my tastes seem to lean towards recordings made before the 1990s, for some reason.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

We should all view the past recordings as a treasure trove, and I have great hope for the younger generation who might delve into this past in a positive way.

The world has certainly changed since then. In the days of analog tape, there was a noise floor which was much louder than today, so miking tended to be closer, and I like close-miking. Also, the music industry & records were a "big deal" back then, like a movie. There were producers who were genius, like John McClure, and lots of good, experienced engineers who really knew their stuff, like Kenneth Wilkinson at Decca. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Wilkinson

As far as people with talent go, it's as good as it ever was. I wonder, though, about the life experience, like George Szell, and what these people lived through (WW II, etc). Plus, many of them got to see the rise of technology from radio all the way through to digital.

The past is unique, as is the present. But it's really all about people.

Legendary Today: Mark O'Connor, Yo Yo Ma, Renee Fleming, Gustavo Dudamel...


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

StevenOBrien said:


> I'm not so sure. I only really got into classical music around 2009, and my tastes seem to lean towards recordings made before the 1990s, for some reason.


Has that happened purely by chance, do you think, or was there an influence?
For my own part, I have what you might call an ideological preference for supporting today's independent record labels, which I'm pretty sure has gone some way to informing my attitude to older recordings. I'm not saying I'm _against_ them at all, just that I'm interested enough in what's being done today to not see any correlation between recording age and quality. When I first started out almost everything I bought was on one of the majors and it did me no harm.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm surprised that anyone would consider young performers like Dudamel and Hahn to be legendary. My take is that both of them need to produce a lot more product to even be considered likely candidates.

Getting back to Hahn, what has she accomplished to be referred to as legendary?


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## Logos (Nov 3, 2012)

In a word, magnetic tape and Mr. Dolby. 

The 50s and 60s brought the most dramatic improvement in sound quality in the history of recording and the earliest artists captured in adequate fidelity are superior since they were closer to the cultural world of the great composers. If artists in 19th century had been recorded faithfully, no doubt they would be treasured more highly still.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I think that the 'queens' will always ideate with the divas and female stars, and many listeners imprint on the performances they first heard. The "golden era of classical music" is a different decade for each generation of listeners.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Bulldog said:


> I'm surprised that anyone would consider young performers like Dudamel and Hahn to be legendary. My take is that both of them need to produce a lot more product to even be considered likely candidates.
> 
> Getting back to Hahn, what has she accomplished to be referred to as legendary?


These two sets of recordings should convince one of Hilary's legendary setting... also I saw her live 3 times and she is mesmerizing in every degree.


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## Bellinilover (Jul 24, 2013)

brotagonist said:


> I think that the 'queens' will always ideate with the divas and female stars, and many listeners imprint on the performances they first heard. The "golden era of classical music" is a different decade for each generation of listeners.


I couldn't agree more. In my opinion, there's too much hyperbole in the world of opera/music criticism, and too much presenting of opinion as fact. I feel there's a deeper philosophical implication to all this, too: few people, I think, truly know how to "live" in the present and appreciate the things they have when they have them. I also can't help feeling that many people associate the musicians of their youth with their own youthful ability to be moved and thrilled by the performances _without any preconceived notions of how they "should" go_, and that they associate this lost quality with those musicians.

I'm now in my mid thirties. I got into opera when I was twenty years old, so my personal "Golden Age of Opera" comprises the singers who were in their primes in the late 1990's. Among these, of course, were Bartoli and Fleming, two "legends" mentioned up-thread. To me they are definitely legends, yet I'm sure certain people older than I am would scoff at the very idea and tell me they were/are nowhere near as good as, say, Berganza and Freni. And I have no doubt that when _those_ two singers were young they were compared unfavorably to Simionato and Tebaldi, who were in turn compared unfavorably to Supervia and Ponselle...

I also adore countless singers who were in their primes in the 1960's and 1970's; I would love to have heard Sutherland, Pavarotti, or Milnes live. Yet I don't really feel cheated, as I believe that my own personal Golden Age had truly great singers in it. And I think there are wonderful singers among the younger generation, too. Are they as "great" as Fleming, Bartoli, and the others? I don't know, and at the moment I don't care. I'll just say that their performances have given me a lot of enjoyment and leave it at that for the present.

While listening to a relatively modern recording today, it occurred to me that the quite limited sound-quality of very early recordings -- I'm talking about recordings from the pre-LP and even pre-78 era -- gives them a certain...mystique. I wonder: if we could hear all of those "Golden Age legends" from the late 19th and early 20th century (Galli-Curci, Melba, Bonci, Amato, etc, etc.) in modern, digital sound, with close microphone placement, would we still think they were so great? Or would flaws show up that we simply hadn't heard before? I'm not trying to be snarky here; it's an honest question.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Boulez has got to be living legend. 

If we were interested in Renaissance music, there is no doubt we're living in the Golden Age. Fifty years ago, there was simply no equivalent of Cinquecento or the Brabant Ensemble or Sequentia. Then came the Tallis Scholars and the Hilliard Ensemble, groundbreaking ensembles and both still active, and now we have quite a few great groups. 

I think one element adding to the nostalgia is that classical music used to be more widely respected than it is now. At some point people who don't like classical music stopped looking up to people who do. That complicated the social dynamics of classical music appreciation, and we'll never get back the golden age when simply being a fan of classical music was enough.


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