# Lp collecting anecdotes of talk classical lore?



## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Di it ever happen to you , bam you discover that one of your vynil worth a fortune, or you went to an LP shop and they s(word)d you real good or record convention.

See records store if they rip people off buying rare 500 pressing lp like i did once, of japanoise they will kill there market.

Once i was so mad i sold ''zeni geva - how to kill- LP and it took me 7 years to finds it 100 $ to get it, like A.N.P absollut null punkt 100$ mint bothg of them, the dude was a pony tail goatee beatnick and look at me whit condescandence like , left rip offs this dude... son of a (you know what) i was expecting at least 200 dollars for 15 LP all import i got 55 dollars .. nope cheaper 53, that day i was so mad i had a tought just a tought you know hang him and shoot him while hanging and torching him up whit firer(just kidding) but i was a timszy winzy mad yah know?

Another anecdote one of my LP purchased for 12.50 US mint had climb up in price to 35 us, it gained value, did this ever happen to you , you purchase holy grail not knowing it and it would climb up in value in couples of years, your like wow, jesu?

:tiphat:


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

$12.50 to $35 is nothing to get excited about.

I was a high value LP dealer in the 90s so have stories.

When in Russia in 2000, I visited an LP store and bought up 100 melodiya and other russian LPs for £1 each. Just for my own interest, collection. I though - these wont be worth more than £5 each max. I listed 1 for auction on ebay - Furtwangler conducting eroica. It sold for £350 to a Japanese buyer. wow. I also sold 2 Ida Haendel LPs for £300+ each from that batch.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

On the flip side - I once had a mint copy of an RCA living stereo LP Szeryng/Brahms VC. Original early pressing. I decided to sell it but first make a tape copy. I did this and then filed the tape away. While I was putting LP away into jacket the phone rang so I put the LP somewhere convenient and answered the phone. After phonecall I forgot where I put the LP and look everyhere. Finally found it - SITTING ON TOP OF VALVE AMP!!!!!

So stupid!

Took out LP - heat damage - warped! I knew from experience this was not recoverable - gritted my teeth - and put LP into bin.

LP was worth £150 or more. It wasnt the money though - destroying a rare LP !! Ahg


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

*See records store if they rip people off buying rare 500 pressing lp like i did once, of japanoise they will kill there market.*

They wont kill the market. While there are rare LPs that collectors are prepared to pay big money for - there will be a market.

When I was a dealer I paid £1 for LPs worth £100 or more many times. But how did this happen? I was called out to value an LP collection - I found 2000 LPs - 90% worth virtually 0. The remaining 10% maybe I can make some money. So I have to do some math. Now owners of collections - or their wives (ie owner dead) never could understand that 90% of LPs have no value. So dealers offer for the whole collection - it's like a service. Offer £1000 for the whole collection - dispose of 1900 LPs and you are left with 100 LPs worth perhaps £3000. Of those 100 10 may be worth £100 each - the remainder values varying from £10 to £50 or so. But then the work of selling them. Not easy money. NB in fact most of the time collections of 2000 were much worse than this. Cheap skate buyers are consistent buying in the 60s not premium decca and hmv stereo issues but budget labels like allegro etc etc. One guys collection was that depressing - 99.9% budget rubbish. he had one valuable LP - ah - he said - when I pulled it out - that was a present from my wife. I said, oh thats nice - and left - no offer for anything. That LP was a £200 gem. I decided to leave it to its destiny.

In todays internet age a seller can always consult ebay for record values - so there is no need to get ripped off if you have 1 LP and you think it could be worth something. But think again - just because someone on ebay was stupid enough to bid the price up to £250 doesnt mean that you are going to find such a fool. Your £250 LP might only sell for £80. So information is one reason I no longer deal in LPs. I was going into houses - valuing a collection - and people were saying - ah - I'll sell it on ebay. Good luck! That's why I laugh my head off when i see dozens of LPs individually listed at £5 each from the same seller and no bids - no sale. Check out the classical LPs section on ebay - 90% of LPs dont sell. I had 10000 LPs of this type (bog standard asd boring sxl concert classics ace of diamonds and worse) in the year 2002. What am I going to do with this chaff? I had a headache. And then - a miracle - I got an email from a taiwan dealer - wants orch and chamber LPs in bulk - no choral and no beethoven 9 no opera 50p each offer. I shifted 8000 LPs to this guy. The remaining 2000 went to various charity shops.

I sold about 1000 valuable LPs in the next 15 years and now they are all gone. What remains is about 300 I kept for my own listening. All I have left to sell now is a complete Haydn quartets on decca and about 8 callas historical live performances - in case anyone is interested.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah, best one was about 5 years ago, when I got an Amadeo LP box in a shop, of Szigeti playing the Bach solo violin works, in pristine condition, for DKK 50 = about £ 6. 

The day after, I sold it to a collector in Japan for £ 449 + postage fee. It was even "cheaper" than the average price for that set on the web.

It seems that collector classical LP prices in general have gone down, and that the demand and selling rate has been somewhat reduced.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> Yeah, best one was about 5 years ago, when I got an Amadeo LP box in a shop, of Szigeti playing the Bach solo violin works, in pristine condition, for DKK 50 = about £ 6.
> 
> The day after, I sold it to a collector in Japan for £ 449 + postage fee. It was even "cheaper" than the average price for that set on the web.
> 
> *It seems that collector classical LP prices in general have gone down,* and that the demand and selling rate has been somewhat reduced.


When I was dealing in the 90s - I could sell bog standard 70s asds for £6 a piece by the ton - same with narrow band sxls from the 70s. The jap and koreans couldnt get enough of them. And virtually any white gold asd for £25 going up to £200 for the highly sought after - Kempe - Cantelli. From what I gather now - all those sub £40 LPs from those days are not now worth anything. Beecham white golds menuhin - not worth anything. But the big orechestral guns have gone up in value - SXL Kertesz VSO Dvorak 9 for example I think now fetches £600 - in the 90s it was worth £250. Certain violin LPs have gone through the roof - they were always valuable - but the far east collectors are now fixated on certain violinists whose LPs did not sell in big numbers when they were made. Menuhin made zillions of LPs - people now understand his name sold the records and not his performances - which by the 50s were really appalling. So Martzy Elman Ida Haendel and Kogan (on western stereo issues not Melodiya) - who were kind of neglected at the time - have now come to the fore and these 50s and 60s pressings are now commanding large sums. The 3 LPs Martzy made for uk columbia mono bach sonatas and partitas in NM condition would probably fetch £5K now. Piano repertoire - not wanted by and large - cello - forget it - bar one or two cellists such as Starker. For far eastern collectors the violin really is the only instrument worth paying large sums to hear.

So to conclude - prices at the top end are going up - and anything under that is going down or worth nothing.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I´ve also noticed that LPs with rare repertoire, including stuff that wasn´t released on CDs, is less easy to sell these days. 
I´d agree that the sought after items have become fewer.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

As a classical LP collector for 25 years, I do have some stories. Stomanek says 90 percent of classical LPs are worthless. That may be true in the UK and Europe, but in the US I'd say the number is closer to 98 percent. And most of those that aren't worthless are the ones from European labels in the 50s and early 60s that had little or no American distribution. The European economy was still recovering from World War II, and far fewer LPs were produced in Europe than in America.

Stomanek mentions he still has the complete Haydn quartets on Decca for sale. Decca was a major UK label that also was a major seller in the US, but by the 1950s they no longer owned the Decca name in the US and had to use another name here, London. Decca and London LPs are identical except for the labels, but the Decca ones, at least the early ones from the 50s and early 60s, are far more valuable. That's why stomanek mentioned the Decca label. As I am only interested in the music and not collectors' value, I would mainly be interested in the name of the string quartet, and that stomanek does not even bother to mention [edit: looks like its the Weller Quartet]. That's because he knows his collecting customers, and they care about the label more than the music. (BTW, stomanek is still stuck with that set because the complete Haydn string quartets is a bulky item on LP, and people don't want to pay for shipping and storing it.)

The funny thing is, most used LP dealers, at least in the US, are mainly thrift or used book store owners, and know little about LPs and nothing about classical LPs, except that they are mostly worthless. Some of them picked up the irritating habit of pricing LPs based on what they saw on ebay. Not only are ebay prices no indication of what buyers are actually willing to pay, unless one looks at "completed listings", ebay LPs are cataloged, described in detail, graded, and returnable, none of which is the case for most thrift and used book shop LPs, which are usually stacked randomly, often in a filthy basement or closet.

But I sometimes got the better of those ignorant, overpricing sellers. Some of the rarer and more valuable classical LPs come up infrequently, even on ebay. I got one that routinely sells for over $100 online for only $3 from an ebay pricer, as it happened not to be for sale on ebay at all at that particular time. Of course, the values even of these LPs is sinking, in fact, they likely would be nearly worthless as well but for the numerous enthusiastic collectors from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan. Once that market dies down, 99.9 percent of classical LPs will be worthless.


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## LezLee (Feb 21, 2014)

Posted in error


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I do think some of them are being played ... but some collectors simply collect the complete releases of labels etc. However, when you get to a certain number of LPs in your collection, it becomes impossible to listen to all of the music, and get to know all of it in depth.

I still have as many LPs as CDs & will keep both media - also for regular listening.


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## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

Elpees are cheap and plentyful. On average I'd say they're worth about a euro, dollar, pound a piece. I keep buying them because most dealers know absolutely nothing about classical music. It's a great way to discover new music or try out different renditions of familiar works. Maybe classical will go the route of jazz and will get silly expensive, who knows. Blue note, riverside, EmArcy, Verve all went up in price dramatically.
I always tell my wife that I'll start selling when we're 70 to supplement our income, recently picked up a Decca slx with Ricci playing, mint condition. Purchased for a whopping 75 eurocents. According to popsike we might be loaded pensionados.
https://www.popsike.com/DECCA-SXL-2...i-LSO-CARMEN-FANTAISIE-Mint/352266786238.html
Until then I'll just enjoy the music and keep my daytime job.


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## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

As Stomanek mentioned it isn’t easy money. Once a month in summer there is a record fair in my city. Lower end stuff, hardly any classical or jazz. I’m friendly with a few of the dealers, nice chaps. Feel sorry for them sometimes, imagine all those crates lifted 4 times in one day; in the van in the early morning, out at the market, in again in the evening and then again out into storage or their shop. There is no real money in it.
The Haydn stringquartets mentioned. If they are on DeccaLondon they’re probably by the Aeolian quartet, fine performance indeed. Got one of the boxsets, years ago, the thriftstore I frequent most charges for boxsets simply the number of elpees in it times 1 euro. Recommended !


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> I do think some of them are being played ... but some collectors simply collect the complete releases of labels etc. However, when you get to a certain number of LPs in your collection, it becomes impossible to listen to all of the music, and get to know all of it in depth.
> 
> I still have as many LPs as CDs & will keep both media - also for regular listening.


Agree on all counts. By the way, did anyone know, without looking it up, who the performers are on the Decca Complete Haydn string quartet set? Looks like it's the Weller Quartet, a well-known Austrian ensemble in the 60s and 70s led by Walter Weller.
Edit: Or maybe the Aeolian Quartet as suggested above. Another fine group.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Yeah, I think that in my favourite LP shops here in Copenhagen, those Haydn/Aeolian quartets probably go for around 3-5 Euros per box set. That is, in their sales stores, where you´d have to be present and discover them. They might charge 10-20 Euros for them in their main shop areas.


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## Jos (Oct 14, 2013)

Joen, you are spot on. You have to be present and have some knowledge, that’s where the bargains are. If it is a “must have” for collector/completionist, you’ll have to pay a premium.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> I do think some of them are being played ... *but some collectors simply collect the complete releases of labels etc*. However, when you get to a certain number of LPs in your collection, it becomes impossible to listen to all of the music, and get to know all of it in depth.
> 
> I still have as many LPs as CDs & will keep both media - also for regular listening.


I never met a collector who collected by the label. There may be some but in 25 years dealing I never met one.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> Yeah, I think that in my favourite LP shops here in Copenhagen, those Haydn/Aeolian quartets probably go for around 3-5 Euros per box set. That is, in their sales stores, where you´d have to be present and discover them. They might charge 10-20 Euros for them in their main shop areas.


Im selling the whole lot for £50 shipped UK.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> As a classical LP collector for 25 years, I do have some stories. Stomanek says 90 percent of classical LPs are worthless. That may be true in the UK and Europe, but in the US I'd say the number is closer to 98 percent. And most of those that aren't worthless are the ones from European labels in the 50s and early 60s that had little or no American distribution. The European economy was still recovering from World War II, and far fewer LPs were produced in Europe than in America.
> 
> Stomanek mentions he still has the complete Haydn quartets on Decca for sale. Decca was a major UK label that also was a major seller in the US, but by the 1950s they no longer owned the Decca name in the US and had to use another name here, London. Decca and London LPs are identical except for the labels, but the Decca ones, at least the early ones from the 50s and early 60s, are far more valuable. That's why stomanek mentioned the Decca label. As I am only interested in the music and not collectors' value, I would mainly be interested in the name of the string quartet, and that stomanek does not even bother to mention [edit: looks like its the Weller Quartet]. That's because he knows his collecting customers, and they care about the label more than the music. (BTW, stomanek is still stuck with that set because the complete Haydn string quartets is a bulky item on LP, and people don't want to pay for shipping and storing it.)
> 
> ...


Need to correct you on a few points.

I said in the 90s - as an example - a collection may consist 90% of worthless LPs. But I also said in those days I could sell a lot of LPs that are now worthless. So yes - in todays world 99.5% of classical LPs out there have no commercial value. This was true even 10 years ago.

I mentioned Decca in relation to the Haydn quartets because I could not remember the artist. In fact it is Decca's offshoot Argo and the qt is the Aeolian qt. I dont think Decca ever issued the weller qt performing haydn n a box set - they only made a few LPs of Haydn. 
I can assure you that even far eastern collectors put as a top priority THE ARTIST and not the label when it comes to solo instrumental and chamber music. I made this clear when highlighting how violinists have become collectible. The label becomes important with certain artists. Oistrakh is virtually unwanted on Melodiya - but his 50/60s performances for Columbia (SAX) stereo LPs are valuable - same story with Kogan. Decca SXL used to have legendary status - now only a few dozen out of hundreds released have any value at all. So collectors are looking for certain performers on audiophile labels. That's why the Ricci SXL is worth silly money - rarity and desirability and great music. An unmatchable combination. The 1st pressing is so rare I never had it in 25 years of dealing - I had the narrow band several times.
As I said the far eastern market only now supports LPs at the ultra top end and I think we are at that 99.9% already more or less.

To add one comment about far eastern collectors - Japanese etc. I met quite a few in my time. I actually think they dont listen to the music that much! One japanese dealer - on a visit to my house said - "I'm not one to sit and listen to a whole performance. I usually listen as background while reading or working - sometimes I hear a passage that impresses me and stop what I'm doing"

I also rarely had returns from the far east - but not infrequently had returns from UK Europe collectors - as many UK collectors want a perfect LP - in reality such a commodity does not exist. So I always preferred selling to far eastern customers as I suspected they did not listen to the whole LP, if at all.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> I never met a collector who collected by the label. There may be some but in 25 years dealing I never met one.


There are many UK Decca SLX collectors, UK Columbia SAX collectors, London blueback collectors, RCA "shaded dog" Living Stereo collectors, Everest turquoise and silver and purple and gold label collectors, CBS 6-eye collectors, DG big tulip collectors, etc., who try to amass as complete as possible a collection of those labels, especially the early stereo material. I remember a web site put together by a Japanese or Korean collector proudly picturing a glorious colorful montage of collectible labels, and there are other collectors' sites that catalog all the titles for these labels. But I wasn't just referring to them, but rather to collectors who look and pay a premium for LPs with those labels.

Come on, stomanek, you can't pretend you don't know this. Jos just cited the famous Decca SLX 2197 featuring violinist Ruggiero Ricci and the London Symphony that he apparently lucked into. Even more famous and valuable is Columbia SAX 2386, the Beethoven violin concerto with violinist Leonid Kogan and Constantin Silvestri conducting the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra. Great as the music is, collectors pay thousands for these due to the rare labels. I have LPs featuring Ricci and Kogan that have great music, and some are somewhat collectible (one is the $100 LP I referred to above), but not remotely as valuable as those. As you well know. Otherwise, why would you mention that your Haydn quartet set is on the Decca label? You did that because so many collectors care about the label.

If I had a complete, mint condition Columbia SAX set for pennies per LP, I think you would be interested.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

stomanek said:


> I never met a collector who collected by the label. There may be some but in 25 years dealing I never met one.


I have. For example, complete UK EMI, as far as I remember, everything neatly arranged by release number. Another one collected EMI ASD, "everything that is ASD is good", he said (which by the way is pretty accurate).


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> I have. For example, complete UK EMI, as far as I remember, everything neatly arranged by release number.


Yes, I forgot to mention UK EMI.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> Need to correct you on a few points.
> 
> I said in the 90s - as an example - a collection may consist 90% of worthless LPs. But I also said in those days I could sell a lot of LPs that are now worthless. So yes - in todays world 99.5% of classical LPs out there have no commercial value. This was true even 10 years ago.
> 
> ...


The only part of that which I just can't agree with is that collectors in general care first and foremost about the artist, even for violinists and cellists in solo and chamber music works. Collectors care first and foremost about rarity, and that is where the labels come in. True, for a few notable classical violinists and cellists, all of their LPs are relatively rare regardless of label, but that is not the case for Oistrakh, Ricci or Kogan, or most others who lived and performed well into the LP era. If you disagree, I have a fine recording of the great Leonid Kogan playing the Brahms violin concerto on the Angel label that I will sell to you for a mere $1,000. ;-)


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> There are many UK Decca SLX collectors, UK Columbia SAX collectors, London blueback collectors, RCA "shaded dog" Living Stereo collectors, Everest turquoise and silver and purple and gold label collectors, CBS 6-eye collectors, DG big tulip collectors, etc., who try to amass as complete as possible a collection of those labels, especially the early stereo material. I remember a web site put together by a Japanese or Korean collector proudly picturing a glorious colorful montage of collectible labels, and there are other collectors' sites that catalog all the titles for these labels. But I wasn't just referring to them, but rather to collectors who look and pay a premium for LPs with those labels.
> 
> Come on, stomanek, you can't pretend you don't know this. Jos just cited the famous Decca SLX 2197 featuring violinist Ruggiero Ricci and the London Symphony that he apparently lucked into. Even more famous and valuable is Columbia SAX 2386, the Beethoven violin concerto with violinist Leonid Kogan and Constantin Silvestri conducting the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra. Great as the music is, collectors pay thousands for these due to the rare labels. I have LPs featuring Ricci and Kogan that have great music, and some are somewhat collectible (one is the $100 LP I referred to above), but not remotely as valuable as those. As you well know. Otherwise, why would you mention that your Haydn quartet set is on the Decca label? You did that because so many collectors care about the label.
> 
> If I had a complete, mint condition Columbia SAX set for pennies per LP, I think you would be interested.


Right - I think you need to be clear about what I am saying. I am not saying that collectors dont value one label over another - clearly some labels are sought after and others are not. What I am saying is - I never met any collector who wants to own all the LPs in a particular label - though I have no doubt there may be collectors who want to own every single ASD. But completists are probably not the same beast as the man/woman who paid out £2300 for the Ricci SXL. They are more likely, if they exist, to be collectors who will wait and buy at a comfortable price every LP in the series. I'm sure you dont mean they value one label so much they will pay thousands for any LP in that series - as most LPs - even among ASDs or SXLs - as we have established - have value 0.

As for SXL2197 - why is it so valuable? There are other Deccas with Ricci playing that are worth a fraction of that sum. I explained why SXL2197 is worth a lot - rarity and desirability. It's not worth what it is purely because it is a Decca SXL. It is worth that sum because of what it is - namely SXL2197. If collectors were purely buying by the label - then all Decca SXL would be worth a tidy sum - they are not.

SAX? How many copies of Handel's Messiah with Klem conducting do you want for five pounds a piece (early silver label) - or Mendelssohn Elijah? Even early labels sets cant be sold there is no demand.

I mentioned Decca only to distinguish the set I have from any other Haydn sets that may be out there - no other reason.

The shaded dog - blue back collectors - can you actually send me a link to any of these? Esp DG tulip - DG was always regarded by audiophile collectors as poor and only when a 5 star artist like Haskil or Furtwangler appeared on DG could I sell them.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Among the more eccentric collecting themes I´ve encountered were "everything with a clarinet soloist", "every single recorded 20th century symphony", "every single Mahler recording", "every single Nielsen recording", "complete Scherchen", "every Bruckner recording", "complete Toscanini" ... and of course the completist opera bunch ...

The record however must have been "Collecting By Pendulum": 
a middle-aged, hippie-like couple, both dressed in strong red colours suggesting membership of some religious cult or the like, would buy, er, what their brought pendulum tended to point to, when it was swung above a row of LPs in the shop ...


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

> If collectors were purely buying by the label - then all Decca SXL would be worth a tidy sum - they are not.


Labels didn´t do releases in identical quantities, some were produced in huge numbers, and rarity has also influenced prices, at least in the past. But you´d rarely see SXLs in good condition go for nothing, say a couple of decades ago, at established dealers.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> The only part of that which I just can't agree with is that collectors in general care first and foremost about the artist, even for violinists and cellists in solo and chamber music works. * Collectors care first and foremost about rarity,* and that is where the labels come in. True, for a few notable classical violinists and cellists, all of their LPs are relatively rare regardless of label, but that is not the case for Oistrakh, Ricci or Kogan, or most others who lived and performed well into the LP era. If you disagree, I have a fine recording of the great Leonid Kogan playing the Brahms violin concerto on the Angel label that I will sell to you for a mere $1,000. ;-)


It's a combination of artist/label/repertoire/rarity/issue.

NB - Angel LPs were always worth a fraction of their SAX equivalents - has that changed then? Same with London - Decca.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> I have. For example, complete UK EMI, as far as I remember, everything neatly arranged by release number.* Another one collected EMI ASD*, "everything that is ASD is good", he said (which by the way is pretty accurate).


he probably collected the 4 digit series. If he collected the 3 digits series he would have ASD429 - an LP he would have paid thousands for - unless he was lucky enough to come across it for peanuts.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> Labels didn´t do releases in identical quantities, some were produced in huge numbers, and rarity has also influenced prices, at least in the past. *But you´d rarely see SXLs in good condition go for nothing, say a couple of decades ago, at established dealers.*


That may even be the case today - though most of the run of the mill stuff doesnt sell.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> It's a combination of artist/label/repertoire/rarity/issue.
> 
> NB - Angel LPs were always worth a fraction of their SAX equivalents - has that changed then? Same with London - Decca.


Yes. And early London and Decca LPs are *exactly the same* except for their label. Made in the same factory at the same time the same way and by the same people. Some of a production run would be assigned to the European market, some of it for export to the US. Eventually that changed somewhat.

Angel LPs were made in the US from the beginning. But the early ones from the 50s and early 60s are typically good quality. American Angel quality only began to plummet later, as did US-made LPs in general, in my opinion.

There is a famous LP by violinist Michael Rabin issued by Capitol in 1960 called The Magic Bow that sells for a fair amount of money. It was reissued in 1973 under the title In Memoriam on the Seraphim label after his untimely death. Seraphim is the label Angel used for its reissues, and it owned the Capitol classical catalog at that point. Angel is not a desirable label for collectors, but this particular LP has superb sound. Still, it sells for a fraction of the original Capitol release.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

> he probably collected the 4 digit series. If he collected the 3 digits series he would have ASD429 - an LP he would have paid thousands for - unless he was lucky enough to come across it for peanuts.


It was long ago. Conditions and prices may vary a lot locally. For example, our shop bought a huge quantity of new, US left over LPs for $1 a piece, and it was then sent across the Atlantic in a container. Also, the stuff seen at local flea markets, antiquarian bookstores, charity shops, or swapping with other collectors, shouldn´t be underestimated.

Personally I´ve more or less had the whole of Europe as a playground for collecting, since labels were imported to here, or via my travels, and later via the internet (from where however I´ve only bought CDs).


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> It was long ago. Conditions and prices may vary a lot locally. For example, our shop bought a huge quantity of new, US left over LPs for $1 a piece, and it was then sent across the Atlantic in a container. Also, the stuff seen at local flea markets, antiquarian bookstores, charity shops, or swapping with other collectors, shouldn´t be underestimated.
> 
> Personally I´ve more or less had the whole of Europe as a playground for collecting, since labels were imported to here, or via my travels, and later via the internet (from where however I´ve only bought CDs).


I know collectors who were active in the mid 80s when CDs arrived - and Kogans on SAX could be picked up for a pound. It wasnt until the early 90s that the orients starting getting interested in mainly British LPs.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> Yes. And early London and Decca LPs are *exactly the same* except for their label. Made in the same factory at the same time the same way and by the same people. Some of a production run would be assigned to the European market, some of it for export to the US. Eventually that changed somewhat.
> 
> Angel LPs were made in the US from the beginning. But the early ones from the 50s and early 60s are typically good quality. American Angel quality only began to plummet later, as did US-made LPs in general, in my opinion.
> 
> There is a famous LP by violinist Michael Rabin issued by Capitol in 1960 called The Magic Bow that sells for a fair amount of money. It was reissued in 1973 under the title In Memoriam on the Seraphim label after his untimely death. Seraphim is the label Angel used for its reissues, and it owned the Capitol classical catalog at that point. Angel is not a desirable label for collectors, but this particular LP has superb sound. Still, it sells for a fraction of the original Capitol release.


That Capitols produced in the UK featuring Rabin did command high prices - USA Capitols seemed to be less sought after which seems odd given Capitol is a USA company. Angel LPs from all eras always went in the bargain bin regardless of what was on them - I never could sell them. Collectors did not like London LPs precisley because London was a USA label pressed in the UK. Collectors did not like that - any more than they liked Phlips - a dutch company - UK pressings. They prefer dutch pressed philips LPs. They also hate dutch deccas and Uk pressed tulips (DG). Which is why I find it odd that UK capitols fetch more than USA equivalents.

Funny business collecting.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> That Capitols produced in the UK featuring Rabin did command high prices - USA Capitols seemed to be less sought after which seems odd given Capitol is a USA company. Angel LPs from all eras always went in the bargain bin regardless of what was on them - I never could sell them. Collectors did not like London LPs precisley because London was a USA label pressed in the UK. Collectors did not like that - any more than they liked Phlips - a dutch company - UK pressings. They prefer dutch pressed philips LPs. They also hate dutch deccas and Uk pressed tulips (DG). Which is why I find it odd that UK capitols fetch more than USA equivalents.
> 
> Funny business collecting.


Exactly. And that's what I meant when I said it isn't mainly about the artist, and it certainly isn't mainly about the music. As for your comment about far eastern collectors not even listening to the music, well, I'm not going to start discussing things like that. But it is true, as you implicitly acknowledge, that those far eastern collectors have had a major impact on classical LP prices, and at this point one has to wonder whether any of these LPs would be worth anything at all without them, other than perhaps a very small handful.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Eastern collectors have certainly been the buyers for the most expensive items I´ve sold later myself - they were from Korea and Japan. Btw, one of them was interested in the small, long-gone Danish Tono label.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> Exactly. And that's what I meant when I said it isn't mainly about the artist, and it certainly isn't mainly about the music. As for your comment about far eastern collectors not even listening to the music, well, I'm not going to start discussing things like that. But it is true, as you implicitly acknowledge, that those far eastern collectors have had a major impact on classical LP prices, and at this point one has to wonder whether any of these LPs would be worth anything at all without them, other than perhaps a very small handful.


Well - the most valuable and sought after LPs do seem to be LPs with violin repertoire on them. And a handful of violinists are prized above all others. The Bach violin sonatas and partitas seem to attract the absolute highest prices. The Martzy 33cx LPs for example are like the holy grail for many far eastern collectors. Somebody mentioned Amadeo. Is it a sought after label? Not really. Yet he sold a szigeti set of the bach sonatas to a far eastern collector for $500. While choral music on any label is shunned. Few operas fetch high prices - as far as I know - only Mozart operas - notably Die Zauberflote - Karl Bohm conducting on an early SXL set and some SAX early sets conducted by Giulini and an ASD with Gui - are really worth big money. There is much less interest in Rossini, except where Callas is singing in stereo on early columbias, Verdi etc. I have still 2 sets of Tosca on early SXLs and they seem to sell for £20 on ebay while those Mozart sets are fetching £1000. There is zero interest in Sutherland on Deccas excellent SET series. Labels are no doubt significant but you cant rule out interest in performers and certain music. One dealer, Gale Andrews (sadly now deceased) commented to be about Peter Maag once - stating that Maag and Mozart on an early SXL is an unbeatable combination (in respect of value). He seems to be establishing a rule - one rule - but there are others and it is a complex matter not easy to generalise about.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Collecting them myself, I think there may be a chance that *LP record sleeve designers* may be an upcoming subject for collectors, in the long run. Like you have people collecting posters and graphic design items. More books and blogs are slowly emerging about this theme, and some LP designers already mean that the price for an old, first-edition can go up a bit, Steinweiss for example, if the sellers are knowledgeable. Still, it is relatively few people who are interested in this subject, however.

Example: Steinweiss Sargent Columbia Messiah $ 240
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Handel-The...alcolm-Sargent-Steinweiss-Cover-/332219180821

But it´s pretty strange, how an apparently original Miro design on the french Vega label still goes for only 35 Euros
https://www.cdandlp.com/en/henri-me...-masque-art-cover-by-miro/10-inch/r115830966/


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> Collecting them myself, I think there may be a chance that *LP record sleeve designers* may be an upcoming subject for collectors, in the long run. Like you have people collecting posters and graphic design items. More books and blogs are slowly emerging about this theme, and some LP designers already mean that the price for an old, first-edition can go up a bit, Steinweiss for example, if the sellers are knowledgeable. Still, it is relatively few people who are interested in this subject, however.
> 
> Example: Steinweiss Sargent Columbia Messiah $ 240
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Handel-The...alcolm-Sargent-Steinweiss-Cover-/332219180821
> ...


That Handel is a 78RPM - and it hasnt sold.

I would be surprised if classical collectors pay much attention to sleeves other than they want original 1st ed sleeve whatever is on it.

I once tried to get more money for a dupre asd as it had her dated signature on it - couldnt get the premium.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Steinweiss for example is now considered the most important and innovative record sleeve inventor, and he has been the subject of books, texts, blogs, and part of exhibitions, even here, so no wonder that some people have become interested in him, and that he is pointed to in advertizings. He began with 78s and continued with LPs, of course. Obviously, those interested are often in another category than specialized music connoisseurs like you, they´re often more interested in graphic design. 

I once sold a rare Manuela Wiesler Icelandic LP with her own signature on it, but for a quite modest amount. As far as I remember, it went to the Far East.

Maybe opera collectors and perhaps pianophiles are somewhat more interested in such signed stuff, I don´t know. The opera LP interest is however also a generation thing, I doubt many younger people are interested in opera LPs or the old stars in that way.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> Well - the most valuable and sought after LPs do seem to be LPs with violin repertoire on them. And a handful of violinists are prized above all others. The Bach violin sonatas and partitas seem to attract the absolute highest prices. The Martzy 33cx LPs for example are like the holy grail for many far eastern collectors. Somebody mentioned Amadeo. Is it a sought after label? Not really. Yet he sold a szigeti set of the bach sonatas to a far eastern collector for $500. While choral music on any label is shunned. Few operas fetch high prices - as far as I know - only Mozart operas - notably Die Zauberflote - Karl Bohm conducting on an early SXL set and some SAX early sets conducted by Giulini and an ASD with Gui - are really worth big money. There is much less interest in Rossini, except where Callas is singing in stereo on early columbias, Verdi etc. I have still 2 sets of Tosca on early SXLs and they seem to sell for £20 on ebay while those Mozart sets are fetching £1000. There is zero interest in Sutherland on Deccas excellent SET series. Labels are no doubt significant but you cant rule out interest in performers and certain music. One dealer, Gale Andrews (sadly now deceased) commented to be about Peter Maag once - stating that Maag and Mozart on an early SXL is an unbeatable combination (in respect of value). He seems to be establishing a rule - one rule - but there are others and it is a complex matter not easy to generalise about.


Yes, the violin soloists are often more sought after, those records are generally more rare than the piano and opera ones. Certainly Sutherland LPs are common in the UK, no? The cello solo records are probably even less common, and they seem to command even higher prices. Heifetz was the greatest, or at least the most in demand, violinist of the LP era, therefore his LPs are by far the most common and tend not to be anywhere near as valuable as those of other top violinists. This is another example of how LP collectors demand is tied far more to rarity than to musical merit.

Martzy is a special case, as her recording career tanked at some point, supposedly because she spurned the sexual advances of Walter Legge. She also reportedly opposed the reissue of her few studio recordings rather than doing everything possible to get them reissued (!), probably because they did not meet her perfectionist standards. She became almost a cult figure among LP collectors, a status that in my humble opinion is not remotely deserved on the basis of her violin playing and is entirely due to the rarity of her LPs. Other violinists such as Kogan have rare LPs that sell for thousands and common ones that sell for almost nothing.

You are right, classical LP collecting can be complex, but my main point is that rarity is what counts, and not musical merit. For the earliest LPs (which include most of the valuable ones), rarity often relates to the label, as the earliest European-only labels are usually much more rare than the earliest American ones, but more generally there are other factors such as the rarity of the musicians heard on the LP. Often the greatest musicians had far more recordings issued and produced than the lesser ones, so their LPs end up much less valuable. Anyone who cannot tell that Heifetz was a far greater violinist than Martzy needs their ears cleaned out. But Heifetz was also the one classical violinist who sold LPs in truly large numbers, and Martzy LPs are very rare.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

Do any of you guys in the UK remember some of the classical LP shops in London - notably Gramex near waterloo and Notting Hill Record exchange? There was also a shop called Cheapo where I think everything was £1.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

joen_cph said:


> Steinweiss for example is now considered the most important and innovative record sleeve inventor, and he has been the subject of books, texts, blogs, and part of exhibitions, even here, so no wonder that some people have become interested in him, and that he is pointed to in advertizings. He began with 78s and continued with LPs, of course. Obviously, those interested are often in another category than specialized music connoisseurs like you, they´re often more interested in graphic design.
> 
> I once sold a rare Manuela Wiesler Icelandic LP with her own signature on it, but for a quite modest amount. As far as I remember, it went to the Far East.
> 
> Maybe opera collectors and perhaps pianophiles are somewhat more interested in such signed stuff, I don´t know. The opera LP interest is however also a generation thing, I doubt many younger people are interested in opera LPs or the old stars in that way.


There is a great Steinweiss book with loads of color illustrations, published by Taschen. Highly recommended.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> Yes, the violin soloists are often more sought after, those records are generally more rare than the piano and opera ones. Certainly Sutherland LPs are common in the UK, no? The cello solo records are probably even less common, and they seem to command even higher prices. Heifetz was the greatest, or at least the most in demand, violinist of the LP era, therefore his LPs are by far the most common and tend not to be anywhere near as valuable as those of other top violinists. This is another example of how LP collectors demand is tied far more to rarity than to musical merit.
> 
> Martzy is a special case, as her recording career tanked at some point, supposedly because she spurned the sexual advances of Walter Legge. She also reportedly opposed the reissue of her few studio recordings rather than doing everything possible to get them reissued (!), probably because they did not meet her perfectionist standards. She became almost a cult figure among LP collectors, a status that in my humble opinion is not remotely deserved on the basis of her violin playing and is entirely due to the rarity of her LPs.
> 
> You are right, classical LP collecting can be complex, but my main point is that rarity is what counts, and not musical merit. Rarity can relate to the label, as the earliest European-only labels are usually much more rare than the early American ones, to the rarity of the musicians heard on the LP, or other factors. Often the greatest musicians had far more recordings issued and produced than the lesser ones, so their LPs end up much less valuable. Anyone who cannot tell that Heifetz was a far greater violinist than Martzy needs their ears cleaned out. But Heifetz was also the one classical violinist who sold LPs in truly large numbers, and Martzy LPs are very rare.


Well Heifetz is my favourite violinist so you wont find any arguments from me there. I'm not sure how good Martzy is as I havent done enough serious listening though of all instruments I find greatest variation in sound/style/interpretation in the violin - so enjoy listening to different excellent violinists.

There was a label 20 odd years ago called Coup D'Archet - got hold of some Martzy radio recordings and issued them on quality thick vinyl. You probably know. I bought one at the time for £25 - Ravel sonata. 10 years later I saw these LPs selling for £100 on ebay.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

fluteman said:


> There is a great Steinweiss book with loads of color illustrations, published by Taschen. Highly recommended.


Yes, even at budget price.

Membran and the likes are doing a lot of rare LP transfers of seldom material, at super budget price, which will make it generally more available. From the little I heard of Martzy, I must say that I was not very positively impressed.


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## JAS (Mar 6, 2013)

Too often, collecting becomes a pursuit of rarity rather than a pursuit of quality. (I have my own collecting bug, but fortunately it does not extend to LPs.)


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## LP collector (Aug 6, 2016)

stomanek said:


> Do any of you guys in the UK remember some of the classical LP shops in London - notably Gramex near waterloo and Notting Hill Record exchange? There was also a shop called Cheapo where I think everything was £1.


Gramex and Cheapo have gone. Classical Exchange in Notting Hill are as strong as ever - I should know as I have been a customer for decades!

Read this thread with interest. It is true that there is a strong interest in violin recodings from the Far East. What puzzles me is the premium in that part of the world for female violinists.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

LP collector said:


> Gramex and Cheapo have gone. Classical Exchange in Notting Hill are as strong as ever - I should know as I have been a customer for decades!
> 
> Read this thread with interest. It is true that there is a strong interest in violin recodings from the Far East. What puzzles me is the premium in that part of the world for female violinists.


I thought Gramex had moved. I was quite sad to see the shutters up on the place a few years back when I was there. Had some great times talking to Roger Hewland, the owner, in the mid to late 90s. He had a funny way of pricing. I recall one day some SXL wide bands came in with chamber music on them. He started pricing them £5 a piece. "I'll take all those Roger," I said, "but are you sure - they're worth more than that." He replied, "Cant stand chamber music, " he said, "give me your money and take them away" He was a big bel canto opera fan - didnt like Mozart so we never got on musically. One thing I loved about Gramex was - no music playing in background. 
Notting Hill have a prime location - so doesnt surprise me they are still around. Used to find some good deals in there though they did over price quite often.

Glad you mentioned the far east fascination with female violinists. De Vito Martzy Neveu Haendel still pulling top prices leaving behind male fiddlers and collectors favourites Elman Rostal Rabin Schneiderhan Oistrakh Kogan and others. I cant explain the gender bias. I recall a japanese dealer who visited me in the 90s - I had a female assistant at the time - a lovely girl with long fair flowing hair. When he found out she could play the violin he got rather excited - begging her to find an instrument and play for him. (I think she was only grade 6 so he would have been disappointed - I think - or maybe not)


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I also visited Notting Hill back in the 90s, very interesting & made some good LP buyings.

Whereas Harold Moore´s didn´t seem that attractive, since prices were at the same level, or higher, as those at home.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

joen_cph said:


> I also visited Notting Hill back in the 90s, very interesting & made some good LP buyings.
> 
> Whereas Harold Moore´s didn´t seem that attractive, since prices were at the same level, or higher, as those at home.


I never bothered with Moore's either - I think I saw a price list of his and it just put me off. It's nice to think you may get a bargain now and again.

I used to frequent most of the classical LP shops around the country - Yarborough House for example. Bens Records in Guildford. There was on in Worthing, another in Manchester, Salisbury, Carlisle. Those dealers always brightened up when I arrived as I spent well.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> I thought Gramex had moved. I was quite sad to see the shutters up on the place a few years back when I was there. Had some great times talking to Roger Hewland, the owner, in the mid to late 90s. He had a funny way of pricing. I recall one day some SXL wide bands came in with chamber music on them. He started pricing them £5 a piece. "I'll take all those Roger," I said, "but are you sure - they're worth more than that." He replied, "Cant stand chamber music, " he said, "give me your money and take them away" He was a big bel canto opera fan - didnt like Mozart so we never got on musically. One thing I loved about Gramex was - no music playing in background.
> Notting Hill have a prime location - so doesnt surprise me they are still around. Used to find some good deals in there though they did over price quite often.
> 
> Glad you mentioned the far east fascination with female violinists. De Vito Martzy Neveu Haendel still pulling top prices leaving behind male fiddlers and collectors favourites Elman Rostal Rabin Schneiderhan Oistrakh Kogan and others. I cant explain the gender bias. I recall a japanese dealer who visited me in the 90s - I had a female assistant at the time - a lovely girl with long fair flowing hair. When he found out she could play the violin he got rather excited - begging her to find an instrument and play for him. (I think she was only grade 6 so he would have been disappointed - I think - or maybe not)


The fascination of some collectors, especially those in the Far East, with female violinists is interesting, isn't it? I used to think that it was the romantic notion that the world of the classical orchestral instrumentalist (and conductor, of course) was so male-dominated in their day that these women were underappreciated great musicians. Alas, I think the real reason is that the classical instrumentalist world was so male-dominated in their day the performing and recording opportunities were less common for these women and thus their LPs more rare. And of course, Neveu died at a young age in a plane crash.
Of the male violinists you list, nearly all of them have at least a few reasonably common LPs. I once even found an Elman LP in the bins, and his record sales famously plummeted with the arrival of Heifetz. Oistrakh was an amazingly prolific performer and recorder, and as a good Soviet comrade churned out cheap Melodiya LPs in large volumes that flooded the USSR and Eastern Europe in the iron curtain days, and eventually huge numbers of budget reissues in the west. Imagine how much his LPs would sell for if they were rare.
Another female golden age violinist you didn't mention is Vienna-born Erica Morini. She achieved formidable success as a soloist, arguably more than any of those you mention, at least in her adopted home of America. But even she didn't get to make a very large number of LPs, and some still sell for a decent premium. She made a great chamber music LP circa 1958 of Mozart and Beethoven string quartets with an all-star lineup on the Westminster label.
https://www.discogs.com/Erica-Morini-Felix-Galimir-Laszlo-Varga-Walter-Trampler-Beethoven-Quartet-No-3-In-C-Minor-Op-18-Moza/release/6359604
I found it in the bins for $1, though it typically sells on ebay for well over $100. A big part of that is probably that is was never issued on CD, at least that I can find. Rarity, rarity, rarity.


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## PlaySalieri (Jun 3, 2012)

fluteman said:


> The fascination of some collectors, especially those in the Far East, with female violinists is interesting, isn't it? I used to think that it was the romantic notion that the world of the classical orchestral instrumentalist (and conductor, of course) was so male-dominated in their day that these women were underappreciated great musicians. Alas, I think the real reason is that the classical instrumentalist world was so male-dominated in their day the performing and recording opportunities were less common for these women and thus their LPs more rare. And of course, Neveu died at a young age in a plane crash.
> Of the male violinists you list, nearly all of them have at least a few reasonably common LPs. I once even found an Elman LP in the bins, and his record sales famously plummeted with the arrival of Heifetz. Oistrakh was an amazingly prolific performer and recorder, and as a good Soviet comrade churned out cheap Melodiya LPs in large volumes that flooded the USSR and Eastern Europe in the iron curtain days, and eventually huge numbers of budget reissues in the west. Imagine how much his LPs would sell for if they were rare.
> Another female golden age violinist you didn't mention is Vienna-born Erica Morini. She achieved formidable success as a soloist, arguably more than any of those you mention, at least in her adopted home of America. But even she didn't get to make a very large number of LPs, and some still sell for a decent premium. She made a great chamber music LP circa 1958 of Mozart and Beethoven string quartets with an all-star lineup on the Westminster label.
> https://www.discogs.com/Erica-Morini-Felix-Galimir-Laszlo-Varga-Walter-Trampler-Beethoven-Quartet-No-3-In-C-Minor-Op-18-Moza/release/6359604
> I found it in the bins for $1, though it typically sells on ebay for well over $100. A big part of that is probably that is was never issued on CD, at least that I can find. Rarity, rarity, rarity.


There's an Oistrakh perf of Paganini VC 1 on a label called Napoleon - so I have been informed. Worth a lot of money and I think it's mono - but it's the only rec of Oistrakh playing this concerto. Kogan apparantly - modeled his interpretation on this recording.
Elman's seem quite rare - there is a nice perf of the spring and kreutzer sonatas on LXT - though invariably in scratchy cond as all those early LXTs - inner sleeve absent - seem to be.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

stomanek said:


> There's an Oistrakh perf of Paganini VC 1 on a label called Napoleon - so I have been informed. Worth a lot of money and I think it's mono - but it's the only rec of Oistrakh playing this concerto. Kogan apparantly - modeled his interpretation on this recording.
> Elman's seem quite rare - there is a nice perf of the spring and kreutzer sonatas on LXT - though invariably in scratchy cond as all those early LXTs - inner sleeve absent - seem to be.


Yes, that and everything else you've posted in this thread is all too true, I hope I didn't seem too argumentative. Fortunately, a small New York City-based audiophile label called Vanguard Records issued some Elman recordings that are not too rare. My Elman LP is a Vanguard issue. My father was once at a party at the Manhattan apartment of Seymour Solomon, who founded Vanguard with his brother Maynard. Apparently he had a spectacularly elaborate and expensive stereo system.
Edit: I see a lot of copies of the Oistrakh/Kondrashin Paganini Violin Concerto no. 1 on Napoleon for sale cheaply, starting at 5 euros. I'm betting that was pirated from an East European radio broadcast.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I won't much pay a premium price for an LP. But I'm fond of bargains. And I tend to purchase to hear the record, not just to collect it.

One of the best deals I got, several years back, was for hauling away four crates of LPs from a flea-market seller who was seeing no action for his horde of discs which included a number of, to me, interesting things, nearly everything in mint condition. I handed him a couple of tens and loaded the crates in the back of my Jeep. I do believe I saw the vehicle shift a few inches lower to the ground when all was aboard.

Anyhow, among the stash were all 17 volumes of the DG Beethoven Bicentennial Collection which had been released to celebrate the composer's 200th birthday back in 1970-72. Each box contains 5 records, and this set was pristine. Don't know what anyone would pay for it today, but I'd only want to let it go as a set. In the meantime, I spin one of the records every once in a while, with great joy.

And that was only one of the box sets featured in this crate of gems, apparently from a classical music lover who preferred to take care of his records. A couple hundred discs in all, for a handful of dollars. A deal for me.

Set can be seen here: https://www.discogs.com/label/518158-Beethoven-Bicentennial-Collection

I also recall visiting the library of the undergraduate college where I picked up my first degree (a visit some years after I had graduated) and hit it on a day when the library was ridding itself of its stock of records, for the most part old, scratchy LPs. (I had borrowed several of them during my college years, but the one I remembered best and would have liked to have was gone: the John Cage Indeterminacy set.) Still, I combed through the remainder, most of them from the late 1950s which I remembered had been in poor shape even when I was in school. But the library was giving them away for 10 cents a pop (and in the end I got a much better deal than that when a librarian who remembered me as one of the students who actually used the library during his college time finally told me to just take what I wanted. So I bounded out with several of the old, scratchy Mercuries and Columbias, etc.

But the real deal was -- among the cast offs was a former professor's large collection of modern American music, all the LPs well-cared for and cleaned and in original covers. (They looked like the college crowd had never bothered to borrow them, or perhaps they had never been put out on the loan shelves.) Apparently, prior to retiring the professor had donated much of his collection to the library, a large portion of it American classical music, which he cherished, including dozens of CRIs, Louisvilles, and other contemporary/modern music on smaller labels. I had gotten to know the instructor during my undergrad days and often discussed modern American classical music with him. He introduced me to Schuman and Piston and Thomson and Tomson (Randall and Virgil), among many others. I had envied his collection. Much of it now resides on my shelves, and it has not gone unlistened to. Another bargain that helped build my personal collection.

As for the John Cage Indeterminacy disc? I never did round up a copy of that. Oh well ….









Soon I will have to relinquish my grip on many of the discs I now hold, and I would hope to send them off to "collectors" who are more interested in hearing music than counting the dollar worth of vinyl discs.


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## fluteman (Dec 7, 2015)

Great post, great story, SONNET CLV. As everyone who posted in this thread well knows, that's what LP collecting is, or was, all about. At this point, I doubt many colleges or universities still have LP collections to get rid of.


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## LP collector (Aug 6, 2016)

stomanek said:


> I never bothered with Moore's either - I think I saw a price list of his and it just put me off. It's nice to think you may get a bargain now and again.
> 
> I used to frequent most of the classical LP shops around the country - Yarborough House for example. Bens Records in Guildford. There was on in Worthing, another in Manchester, Salisbury, Carlisle. Those dealers always brightened up when I arrived as I spent well.


Blimey, you get around! I know Ben very well, lovely chap. Have visited Yarborough House a couple of times - a nice part to spend a weekend break. When you say Worthing do you mean Hove? If not, that is one I have missed. Harold Moores retired and sold up to American owners. After that, the basement which was devoted to vinyl, CD gradually took over which was dispiriting. I was not too upset when they went out of business. The prices in Harold's time and beyond have always been silly. My vinyl treat is a visit to Classical Exchange at Notting Hill which has lasted for more years then I care to remember. They have changed location in the same parade of shops three times since I have been a customer. When I worked in Kensington I called in once a week. Since retirement a monthly visit.


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