# Sibelius conductors?



## Hagrid

Hello. I was recommended a few Sibelius symphonies in my very first thread, and would like to give them all a proper listen. Far be it for me (a classical noob at this point) to criticise a renowned conductor, but I first listened to the Sibelius symphonies interpreted by Leonard Bernstein. I personally hear nothing wrong, but many people on youtube and elsewhere criticised his interpretations of these works heavily.

I would like to know what conductors I should be looking into for these Sibelius symphonies. Thanks very much.


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## Becca

You are about to get as many different answers as you have people answering, it really is all a matter of personal taste.


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## Hagrid

Becca said:


> You are about to get as many different answers as you have people answering, it really is all a matter of personal taste.


Absolutely, I totally agree with you. However as someone who is new to classical, it's hard for me to know what seperates Bernstein's interpretations from others. I usually try to look for conductors from the same region as the composer, so is the solution to search for a renowned Finnish/Estonian conductor for these symphonies? I'm very knew to orchestral music.


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## elgar's ghost

Colin Davis was a noted Sibelian. His first of two cycles with the London SO is worth listening to (I haven't heard the later one which is live but that's received good reviews as well) but I think his cycle with the Boston SO is even better.

Becca's right, so I thought I'd get in early.


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## Becca

The regional affiliation idea is false as often as it is correct. For some reason, British conductors have had a strong affinity with Sibelius so you will find very well regarded recordings by Sir Thomas Beecham, Anthony Collins, Sir Colin Davis and Sir John Barbirolli. Of the contemporary group, Sir Simon Rattle has also been strongly associated with Sibelius and he recently did a complete cycle of the works with the Berlin Philharmonic in both Berlin & London. Osmo Vanska, who is Finnish, has done a couple of well respected cycles, most recently in Minneapolis. While he never did all seven of the symphonies, some swear by Herbert von Karajan while others (myself included) usually swear at him. Vladimir Ashkenazy did a set which I have heard good things about.


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## Becca

On a personal note, I am partial to Barbirolli, the first (Boston) Davis cycle and Rattle.


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## Hagrid

Becca said:


> The regional affiliation idea is false as often as it is correct. For some reason, British conductors have had a strong affinity with Sibelius so you will find very well regarded recordings by Sir Thomas Beecham, Anthony Collins, Sir Colin Davis and Sir John Barbirolli. Of the contemporary group, Sir Simon Rattle has also been strongly associated with Sibelius and he recently did a complete cycle of the works with the Berlin Philharmonic in both Berlin & London. Osmo Vanska, who is Finnish, has done a couple of well respected cycles, most recently in Minneapolis. While he never did all seven of the symphonies, some swear by Herbert von Karajan while others (myself included) usually swear at him. Vladimir Ashkenazy did a set which I have heard good things about.


This is very helpful, thank you!

May I ask a question? How have you become so well aquanted with these works? Have you listened to each of these symphonies by all the conductors you named? If so, colour me intimidated. 

May I also ask why you dislike Karajan?


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## Becca

I won't admit how old I am :lol: but I have been interested in classical music since my teens and started reading magazines such as Gramophone since my early 20s. During this time I experimented with recordings borrowed from libraries as well as purchased. Some were soon ditched, others seem to have hit a positive chord with me. Sibelius is one composer who I have always particularly enjoyed.

As to HvK, I think that he did his best work in the 50's and into the 60's. As time went along he seemed to become very enamored of himself and he seemed to focus more on creating a beautiful sound for its own sake rather than the needs of the music (and *that* will bring down the wrath of many on me!!). As Simon Rattle put it "the emperor of legato".


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## Becca

Reading reviews can be a tricky thing without knowing anything about the reviewer and that is especially true of reading reviews on sites such as Amazon. One thing that I found helpful was to learn the foibles of various reviewers and how they mapped to my interests so I could get a better sense of what I might or might not like. No doubt you will get to know something about the TC community and so learn when to listen and when to smile and move on


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## GKC

I love Karajan in 4, 5, 6, 7. He does the mysterious icy-cold Sibelius thing better than most.
I also love Vanska in 2, 4 and 6. I didn't like no. 4 until I heard his. 
3 is one of my favorite Sibelius symphonies, and I have not heard a better one than Okko Kamu.
One more: My favorite 7th is probably Colin Davis, RCA; incredible. 

Just to confuse you further, Hagrid. ;-)


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## Hagrid

GKC said:


> I love Karajan in 4, 5, 6, 7. He does the mysterious icy-cold Sibelius thing better than most.
> I also love Vanska in 2, 4 and 6. I didn't like no. 4 until I heard his.
> 3 is one of my favorite Sibelius symphonies, and I have not heard a better one than Okko Kamu.
> One more: My favorite 7th is probably Colin Davis, RCA; incredible.
> 
> Just to confuse you further, Hagrid. ;-)


Ah.. Don't trouble yourself with it Harry. 

This period of discovery is always the best. So many melodies I haven't heard... I currently have my sights set on Tchakovsky, Sibelius, and Shostakovich music... Should be interesting!


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## opus55

Yes, you will get different opinions. I think Karajan is ok and I find Davis/Boston quite boring. My preferences are Vanska/Lahti and Jarvi/Gothenburg - they capture the nordic mood, of course, in my opinion. I especially love Jarvi's recording of the 3rd (my favorite). Also heard Berglund on Spotify once (6th?) and it is in my wishlist. I haven't listened to many other cycles so I wouldn't go so far as saying I strongly recommend my favorites.


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## Becca

There is a common conception that the Sibelius symphonies should mirror the cold, nordic world but it is worth remembering that Sibelius started composing the 2nd while traveling in Italy.


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## opus55

Becca said:


> There is a common conception that the Sibelius symphonies should mirror the cold, nordic world but it is worth remembering that Sibelius started composing the 2nd while traveling in Italy.


That's good to know. But I don't think it "should" sound that way - there's no "should" in appreciating music  I'm sure others have different ways of appreciating Sibelius. Sibelius just naturally sounds Nordic, to me.


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## Itullian

FWIW, for a newbie I'd recommend either the Vanska or either Berglund EMI cycles.


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## Hagrid

Apparently there's no breaks between the third and fourth movements in the second Sibelius symphony. Great excuse for Spotify to ram my ears with glitzy MTV hip-hop before the fourth movement starts.... 

I'm listening to Vanska.


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## opus55

If you consider the price of Vanska vs. either Berglund sets then Berglund is a clear winner.

I don't have Berglund on CDs yet but my guess is Vanska on BIS label is sonically superior though.


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## opus55

Hagrid said:


> Apparently there's no breaks between the third and fourth movements in the second Sibelius symphony. Great excuse for Spotify to ram my ears with glitzy MTV hip-hop before the fourth movement starts....
> 
> I'm listening to Vanska.


I know. That's why I gave in and now paying the subscription. Do give try with Davis, Berglund and Barbirolli as well. They are all very popular in TC.


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## KenOC

Itullian said:


> FWIW, for a newbie I'd recommend either the Vanska or either Berglund EMI cycles.


If I may add...the Vanska cycle is a tremendous value, especially as a download at well under ten dollars. But I can't recommend it except to those with a very quiet listening environment, since the dynamic range seems far wider than usual. You're either not hearing the soft parts or enraging the neighbors with the loud ones. Good on headphones though. But not in a car, for sure.


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## Hagrid

KenOC said:


> If I may add...the Vanska cycle is a tremendous value, especially as a download at well under ten dollars. But I can't recommend it except to those with a very quite listening environment, since the dynamic range seems far wider than usual. You're either not hearing the soft parts or enraging the neighbors with the loud ones. Good on headphones though. But not in a car, for sure.


 I personally felt like the loud parts were too quiet in the recording I was just listening too. Not loud enough.

What's this about Berglund's supposed changing of the scores? That's what I'm reading here?


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## Becca

Not changing ... marking dynamics, tempi, etc. Sometimes you can have various concurrent threads and there can be choices as to how you emphasize them ... or not.


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## Hagrid

Becca said:


> Not changing ... marking dynamics, tempi, etc. Sometimes you can have various concurrent threads and there can be choices as to how you emphasize them ... or not.


Okay thanks. This thread has been very helpful in a very short period of time. I've come to expect nothing less.


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## opus55

KenOC said:


> If I may add...the Vanska cycle is a tremendous value, especially as a download at well under ten dollars. But I can't recommend it except to those with a very quite listening environment, since the dynamic range seems far wider than usual. You're either not hearing the soft parts or enraging the neighbors with the loud ones. Good on headphones though. But not in a car, for sure.


I found the Vanska digital download. I didn't know they still had the bargain price.

For $7.99, you get all symphonies and violin concerto plus some tone poems which are also great.
http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Comp...nen-Concerto/dp/B004Z4ZN4A/ref=pd_cp_dmusic_1

And also agree the dynamics of the recording makes it difficult to play in some environments.


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## KenOC

Note also on the Vanska download another earlier version of the 5th Symphony, of interest.


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## Marschallin Blair

It really is a matter of 'taste.'

Karajan, Stokowski, Berglund (the Bournemouth and not the Helsinki cycle), Oramo, and Segerstam (the Ondine cycle and not the Chandos one) have elan, mystery, and majesty to them.

Vanska's recordings are underpowered and underwhelming- especially with the all time most flaccid _Kullervo_ I've ever heard.

Davis' Boston cycle bores me and his RCA set is a pleasant though mixed bag. I find his live LSO recordings far more animated, especially his _Kullervo_.


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## opus55

KenOC said:


> Note also on the Vanska download another earlier version of the 5th Symphony, of interest.


We sound like sales people. Order now!


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## opus55

Marschallin Blair said:


> It really is a matter of 'taste.'
> 
> Karajan, Stokowski, Berglund (the Bournemouth and not the Helsinki cycle), Oramo, and Segerstam (the Ondine cycle and not the Chandos one) have elan, mystery, and majesty to them.
> 
> Vanska's recordings are underpowered and underwhelming- especially with the all time most flaccid _Kullervo_ I've ever heard.
> 
> Davis' Boston cycle bores me and his RCA set is a pleasant though mixed bag. I find his live LSO recordings far more animated, especially his _Kullervo_.


I would partially agree with your comment about Vanska. While I think it's a great cycle, at times, I do wish he brings in more storm.

When will I find my favorite cycle.. Berglund is my next hope.


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## KenOC

I find myself with only the Berglund and Segerstam cycles on my favorite iPod. Others moulder on my hard drives...


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## DavidA

Karajan was known as an advocate of Sibelius's music in the 1940's and early 1950's when it was rarely played in continental Europe. The composer himself described Karajan as a "great master" and felt that of the younger generation of conductors (he was writing in the 1950's) he was the one who had the greatest feeling for his music.
In 1938 the Head of Swedish Radio had invited Karajan to conduct the Sixth Symphony in Stockholm and the performance by the 30 year old General Music Director from Aachen had been widely admired. So began a life-long enthusiam for the Finnish composer's work which Karajan always felt could never be compared to the music of anyone else. Although he never conducted the Third symphony, the later symphonies and the tone poem "Tapiola" fascinated him as music which evolved organically out of the sound world of the Finnish landscape. The Sibelius scholar and biographer Erik Tawaststjerna inscribed the following dedication in Karajan's copy of his book:
"To Herbert von Karajan. 
The only conductor who understands the Fourth Symphony.
Erik Tawaststjerna"


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## Marschallin Blair

opus55 said:


> I would partially agree with your comment about Vanska. While I think it's a great cycle, at times, I do wish he brings in more storm.
> 
> When will I find my favorite cycle.. Berglund is my next hope.


What? You _don't_ reflexively agree with everything I say?!

_Infelice! Infelice!_

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

I don't go for symphonic cycles, myself. I go for the best individual performances (or even the best 'movements') by different conductors.

I'm glad that you can enjoy Vanska though. All the more power to you. _;D_


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## joen_cph

Bernstein is great; there´s quite a difference between his cbs-sony and later DG versions, but both are very engaged. 

Berglund´s digital "Kullervo" (=his second recording) is highly recommendable too.

Celibidache´s DG 5th is probably the most eccentric available.

Neeme Järvi is also really great on DG as regards the other orchestral pieces, I haven´t heard his symphonies recordings.

Karajan (EMI, DG), Dorati (2nd Symphony), Kamu (3rd Symphony, DG) and some Rozhdestvensky (1st, 6th Symphony) are also good, with varying sound quality.

Whereas I´m less enthusiastic about Vänska, Davis (philips), Ansermet (4th, boring), Maazel, for example. Skipped the Abravanel box totally, too light and unengaged, IMO.


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## Marschallin Blair

DavidA said:


> Karajan was known as an advocate of Sibelius's music in the 1940's and early 1950's when it was rarely played in continental Europe. The composer himself described Karajan as a "great master" and felt that of the younger generation of conductors (he was writing in the 1950's) he was the one who had the greatest feeling for his music.
> In 1938 the Head of Swedish Radio had invited Karajan to conduct the Sixth Symphony in Stockholm and the performance by the 30 year old General Music Director from Aachen had been widely admired. So began a life-long enthusiam for the Finnish composer's work which Karajan always felt could never be compared to the music of anyone else. Although he never conducted the Third symphony, the later symphonies and the tone poem "Tapiola" fascinated him as music which evolved organically out of the sound world of the Finnish landscape. The Sibelius scholar and biographer Erik Tawaststjerna inscribed the following dedication in Karajan's copy of his book:
> "To Herbert von Karajan.
> The only conductor who understands the Fourth Symphony.Erik Tawaststjerna"


Truer words never spoken.

Karajan's DG sixties Berlin _Tapiola_,_ Fourth_, and EMI 1960 Philharmonia _Fifth _are wonders of the world.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Osmo Vänskä goes without saying, but I much prefer his more recent recordings with Minnesota. My favourite performance of Sibelius I've ever heard is Sakari Oramo conducting symphonies 7, 5 and 1 with the Vienna Phil on YouTube. Sadly, I don't think his recordings with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra are anywhere near as good. 

Two Sibelius conductors whose recordings I couldn't live without are Inkinen and Berglund.


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## Triplets

Lots of good recommendations here. My favorite cycles are Barbirolli and Davis/Boston. I particularly enjoy Stowkowski in the First, Ormandy in 2, Karajan's 4th, and Vanska/6. Tapiola is as great a work as any of the Symphonies, and Karajan is great here.


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## shadowdancer

While still pretty hard to find decent records I respect a lot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kajanus

A fellow TC member introduced him to me and I admit that this meeting (between Kajanus and yours truly) happened a bit late in my life.
Together with the Karajan/Kamu's cycle, Kajanus is a champion for me.


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## ptr

^^ Kajanus is an important early standard bearer as is Georg Schnéevoigt and Tor Mann, I would not want to be without Anthony Collins, his seminal cycle with LSO did a lot for popularizing Sibelius in the Uk. Neeme Järvi's first cycle on Bis is one of the most "joie de vivre" interpretations for me, much better the either of Vänskä's or Järvi's remake on DG. Love Leif Segerstam on Ondine, might well be the cycle I return to most, he has a freshness of interpretation I feel many lack. I have no love for Karajan who misreads the idiom, (Sibelius, it is well known, would praise anyone just to make them pick up the tab!  ) .. I was raised with Davis Boston Philips cycle and felt it was fine until I widened my Horizons, and today I've matured into feeling that he flattened Sibelius into something somewhat uninteresting (An anglofication of Sibelius perhaps, perfect on the surface but empty if you dig down (I know I will get abuse for this comment!  )).

/ptr


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## Heliogabo

Somebody knows Kurt Sanderling's symphony cycle? What opinion it deserves here in TC?


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## Becca

ptr said:


> (An anglofication of Sibelius perhaps, perfect on the surface but empty if you dig down (I know I will get abuse for this comment!  )).
> 
> /ptr


And deservedly so. What is the point of nationalistic aspersions?


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## Woodduck

Becca said:


> And deservedly so. What is the point of nationalistic aspersions?


Evidently the English are perfect on the surface but empty if you dig down, unlike the Finns, who are empty on the surface but perfect if you dig down. The French, however, are perfect on the surface as well as deep down, except when viewed by a German. Then the French are empty on the surface and also empty deep down. Americans, of course, have no deep down. That's why we're all grinning in our photographs.


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## Becca

Woodduck said:


> Evidently the English are perfect on the surface but empty if you dig down, unlike the Finns, who are empty on the surface but perfect if you dig down. The French, however, are perfect on the surface as well as deep down, except when viewed by a German. Then the French are empty on the surface and also empty deep down. Americans, of course, have no deep down. That's why we're all grinning in our photographs.


I believe that the only nationality who are truly perfect both outside, inside, upside & downside are the residents of the Antipodes Islands south of New Zealand, population 0 as of last count. Their national anthem is 4'33"


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## Woodduck

Becca said:


> I believe that the only nationality who are truly perfect both outside, inside, upside & downside are the residents of the Antipodes Islands south of New Zealand, population 0 as of last count. Their national anthem is 4'33"


Thank you, Becca. I knew I'd find my home some day.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Two Sibelius conductors whose recordings I couldn't live without are Inkinen and Berglund.


I have Inkinen's 4th and 5th. The 5th I prefer to the Berglund BSO I've bought, which seems a trifle slow. I'd buy the Davis/LSO live if he didn't keep joining in!

I'm not sure about the 4th yet. I like the opening movement, but that glockenspiel in the 4th...?


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## Woodduck

MacLeod said:


> I have Inkinen's 4th and 5th. The 5th I prefer to the Berglund BSO I've bought, which seems a trifle slow. I'd buy the Davis/LSO live if he didn't keep joining in!
> 
> I'm not sure about the 4th yet. I like the opening movement, but that glockenspiel in the 4th...?


There's always been debate about what "bells" (German _Glocken_ in the score) Sibelius wanted in the 4th: tubular bells, glockenspiel, or (as has sometimes been done) both together. I don't think the question's ever been settled, so chacun a son gout.


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## joen_cph

Heliogabo said:


> Somebody knows Kurt Sanderling's symphony cycle? What opinion it deserves here in TC?


Heard some of it once and found it not very captivating. As fas as I recall, it tends to downplay contrasts somewhat. Others may know it better.

Concerning Collins, I´ve chosen some of his too, albeit based on some quick samples (3, 4, 6); they are in mono, however.

I´ve heard some Kajanus, all mono, but found it too irregular in the playing for this kind of music; maybe one has to get to know it further. Taste varies .


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## Guest

Woodduck said:


> There's always been debate about what "bells" (German _Glocken_ in the score) Sibelius wanted in the 4th: tubular bells, glockenspiel, or (as has sometimes been done) both together. I don't think the question's ever been settled, so chacun a son gout.


Yes, just been reading about that...the glockenspiel just sounds too...twee? (Can't think of the right word.) It's the only version I've heard, so don't know what it sounds like with bells. Checking it out on Youtube!


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## 20centrfuge

My 2 cents is that Bernstein understood Sibelius better than most and his NY recordings are very soulful. Ashkenazy is good. Rattle, I think is good. Essa Pekka's 5 is good. Vanska is respectable. Colin Davis sucks.


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## EDaddy

My personal fav.


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## Becca

Hagrid ... If you are still reading this ... have we all helped you to make a decision?


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## omega

My favourites are Vänskä and Barbirolli. Sir Colin Davis is overall good, but I'm sometimes disappointed with him.

As for Salonen, this recording is quite impressive:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

MacLeod said:


> I have Inkinen's 4th and 5th. The 5th I prefer to the Berglund BSO I've bought, which seems a trifle slow. I'd buy the Davis/LSO live if he didn't keep joining in!
> 
> I'm not sure about the 4th yet. I like the opening movement, but that glockenspiel in the 4th...?


I think the last movement of the fourth has that same kind of bizarreness one can get out of Nielsen's 6th. It's such a wonderful symphonic movement in itself, but I find that I just can't seem to put my finger on what type of finale it is....it sits in a category of its own.


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## manyene

Very true - the most profound and baffling of his symphonies

My vote also for the Vanska Lahti cycle: the Amazon download includes the earlier version of the 5th, of interest as it shows the superiority of the final version


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## Ali Ben Sawali

Stay away from milk and 16 sugars Karajan. Berglund is your man. RIP.


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## Ali Ben Sawali

Stay away from egotist Bernstein in anything other than Bernstein. All razzmatazz and no depth or feeling.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

^ I agree with you, but I'm not so vehemently against their interpretations! At least those recordings aren't exactly _excruciating_ to listen to.


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## Lord Lance

Dear Hagrid,

Register yourself on TSO's Beethoven on Demand service and listen to Berglund's, Karajan's, Davis', Maazel's, Vanska's, Barbirolli's Sibelius. Added bonus: Segerstam! Decide for yourself which approach suits you the best.

<And remember, Amazon is extremely unreliable!>


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## Triplets

20centrfuge said:


> My 2 cents is that Bernstein understood Sibelius better than most and his NY recordings are very soulful. Ashkenazy is good. Rattle, I think is good. Essa Pekka's 5 is good. Vanska is respectable. Colin Davis sucks.


I was kinda with you until that last sentence...Davis first recorded cycle with Boston is very decent and consistent, if not the last word in Sibelius. imo there was a drop off in his two later English cycles, for whatever reason.


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## Hagrid

Alright chaps. I went with Berglund.


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## joen_cph

Concerning Colin Davis, don´t forget that there is both a Boston SO and a London SO cycle.
The Boston is generally considered more successful.


And as regards Berglund, there is also a Bournemouth SO cycle and a Chamber Orchestra of Europe one.

I may be forgetting some further ones too.


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## Lord Lance

Hagrid said:


> Alright chaps. I went with Berglund.


Don't forget to post your thoughts on Berglund's cycle.


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## ptr

^^which of the 3½ Berglund cycles did You go for? (Bournemouth, Helsinki or COE) .. They are all quite different!

/ptr


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## Kivimees

Poor Hagrid - all this just to listen to a Sibelius symphony!


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## ptr

^^ Poor him, not dear asking all those students at Hogwarts to kazam him a top flight orchestra and a selection of world renowned conductors to give him the Sibelius live experience, poor him! 

/ptr


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## Blancrocher

ptr said:


> ^^ Poor him, not dear asking all those students at Hogwarts to kazam him a top flight orchestra and a selection of world renowned conductors to give him the Sibelius live experience, poor him!
> 
> /ptr


Well, at the least I'm sure they could drum up a John Williams score with some Sibelius in it.


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## Lord Lance

Avoid the COE/Berglund experience!


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## Corvus

Has anyone heard Thomas Sondergard's recent release of the 2nd and 7th? I purchased the download and I just finished listening to the 2nd symphony. I love the opening of the first movement. However, the dynamic range is so wide that I am constantly adjusting the volume up or down. Other than that I like it. It sounds not quite so sparse like the recent Vanska recording.
I also have the Sanderling cycle. What I like about his interpretation is it seems more romantic and flowing.


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## jim prideaux

Lord Lance said:


> Avoid the COE/Berglund experience!


would be interested to know why so dismissive-while these recordings would never replace various others that I listen to I actually rather enjoy them-to the extent that I look periodically at buying the Ondine Berglund COE recordings of the Brahms symphonies


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## Lord Lance

jim prideaux said:


> would be interested to know why so dismissive-while these recordings would never replace various others that I listen to I actually rather enjoy them-to the extent that I look periodically at buying the Ondine Berglund COE recordings of the Brahms symphonies


Mostly because Berglund outdid himself earlier and there was no need for another cycle. His earlier cycles were better - in execution, emotionally and electrically. COE, on the other hand, is barely passable.


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## Eramirez156

I am not in general a Karajan fan, but herbie's Sibelius recordings with the Philharmonia are not to missed. I just bought his Sibelius 2nd on LP even though I already have the CD, it was just a dollar!


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## Marschallin Blair

Lord Lance said:


> Mostly because Berglund outdid himself earlier and there was no need for another cycle. His earlier cycles were better - in execution, emotionally and electrically. COE, on the other hand, is barely passable.


Quite the contrary, actually: the Berglund Helsinki performances completely flat line _vis-à-vis _ his later Bournemouth endeavors.


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## Marschallin Blair

Blancrocher said:


> Well, at the least I'm sure they could drum up a John Williams score with some Sibelius in it.


The John Williams "Fortress of Solitude" cut from _Superman_ is _puuuure_ Sibelius.


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## Itullian

The Bournemouth cycle is analog 70's recording, EMI.
The Helsinki is digital 80's recording, EMI.
COE is even later on the Finlandia label.


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## quack

The icey cool serene landscape style Sibelius that so many conductors seem to aim for leaves me a little, well umm 'cold'. Gennady Rozhdestvensky leading the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra in much more excited, spikey performances are the sound for me.


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## Alfacharger

Marschallin Blair said:


> The John Williams "Fortress of Solitude" cut from _Superman_ is _puuuure_ Sibelius.


Don't forget Michael Kamen's score for "The Dead Zone", Sibelius through and through.


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## Lord Lance

Marschallin Blair said:


> Quite the contrary, actually: the Berglund Helsinki performances completely flat line _vis-à-vis _ his later Bournemouth endeavors.


Agree to disagree, good sir.


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## Guest

Becca said:


> You are about to get as many different answers as you have people answering, it really is all a matter of personal taste.


Hi Becca

Many thanks for your link to the interview about Sibelius with Rattle.

http://www.talkclassical.com/39674-ss-29-08-15-a-post933551.html#post933551

Your comment above - one with which I usually agree - needs a review in the light of some of the observations by Rattle. For example, his view that Karajan has no sense of rhythm and that he was playing the violins 'wrong' at the beginning of the 5th (around 2:20 if you find him on Spotify). He also referred to a conductor (Ormandy, I think) who 'added a trumpet' at the end of the 7th. Is this a matter of taste, or just wrong? I've also been comparing various versions of the 4th movement of the 6th, and note that Berglund takes it much more slowly than others; too slow to be an allegro molto?

So, I'd like to listen to the interpretation that gets it 'right' - as close as possible to what Sibelius intended, insofar as we can discern it from whatever he's written on the score.


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## Delicious Manager

These are some of the conductors I rate highly as Sibelians:
John Barbirolli
Paavo Berglund
Anthony Collins
Colin Davis
Robert Kajanus
Sakari Oramo
Osmo Vänskä
Arvo Volmer


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## Eramirez156

My list of *Sibelians* are

*John Barbirolli
Thomas Beecham
Anthony Collins
Colin Davis
Sixten Ehrling
Robert Kajanus
Serge Koussevitzky
Malcolm Sargent
Osmo Vänskä*

and two of conductors who I wish had recorded more *Sibelius*

* Hans Rosbaud
Eduard Van Beinum*


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## Becca

While admitting that I haven't listened to a lot of Vanska's Sibelius, from what I have heard, he seems to have a tendency to unusually slow tempi in some movements, to the point that it seems to fall apart. The really extreme example is his recording of _Kullervo_. I have the CD of it but am seriously considering turning into a frisbee.


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## Steatopygous

The post recently bought me an 11 CD Decca box set entitled Sibleius Great Perforamnces. It includes the complete symphonies with Anthony Collins, plus individual symphonies by Gibson, Jensen, Mackerras, Monteux, rosbaud, Tjuxen and Van Beinum. Also multiple accounts of the tone poems, the Griller Quartet playing Intimate Voices, a couple of versions of the violin concerto (Ricci and Jan Damen, who i'd never heard of) and songs by Flagstad and Nilsson. I've barely dipped into it yet, but it looks eminently recommendable for a newbie (or anyone else who doesn't already have the Collins accounts). Mostly 50s recordings. 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Great-Performances/dp/B00YG7W8EO


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## Steatopygous

Except that the set spells performances correctly


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## Steatopygous

And Sibelius, actually. Sorry.


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## Vaneyes

Eramirez156 said:


> I am not in general a Karajan fan, but herbie's Sibelius recordings with the Philharmonia are not to missed. I just bought his Sibelius 2nd on LP even though I already have the CD, it was just a dollar!


Sibelius was fond of those recs, also. Too bad he didn't hear the 1960 2 & 5. :tiphat:


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## DavidA

Worth noting that Sibelius himself was an admirer of Karajan's conducting of his music. He wrote to Walter Legge: "As you know I have always been a great admirer of Mr v Karajan, and his magnificent recording of my works has given me the keenest satisfaction. Karajan of course championed Sibelius in the 1950s when no-one else seemed to want to hear him.


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## TxllxT

Yevgeny Mravinsky + Leningrad Philharmonic + Sibelius






Gennadi Rozhdestvensky + Sibelius


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## Delicious Manager

DavidA said:


> Worth noting that Sibelius himself was an admirer of Karajan's conducting of his music. He wrote to Walter Legge: "As you know I have always been a great admirer of Mr v Karajan, and his magnificent recording of my works has given me the keenest satisfaction. Karajan of course championed Sibelius in the 1950s when no-one else seemed to want to hear him.


Karajan was great in the 1950s and early 60s. Then he became the over-preened, self-obsessed conductor who went for beauty of sound over musical substance.


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## hpowders

Herbert von Karajan and Eugene Ormandy for the Sibelius Seventh Symphony.

Sir Colin Davis/BSO (NOT the LSO) for the Third and Sixth Sibelius Symphonies.

None of the other Sibelius symphonies interest me.


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## kanishknishar

*.*

i wholeheartedly recommend the rattle/cbso and rozhdestvensky cycles... just amazing.... you'll be left stumped..... see beauty itself...


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