# Ravel’s String Quartet in F



## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I was watching a YouTube video and the outro was about 10 seconds long and I heard a beautiful melody so I wanted to know what it was because I didn’t recognise it. So I used Shazam and apparently it was Ravel’s string quartet. Now I plan on listening to it tonight. I looked at Trout’s list and Merl’s blog post and I will probably listen to Quartetto Italiano. I also looked and I saw that no one had created a thread about this quartet, so I wanted to go ahead and make one so that people can post here what their favorite recordings are and what they think about the piece. 2 questions I have myself:
1. How do you rate this compared to it’s disc buddy, Debussy’s quartet?
2. Are there things that I should know before listening? Maybe a certain detail that is worth knowing to increase my enjoyment of listening to the piece?
3. Are there any other performances really worth hearing besides the Quartetto Italiano recording?


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

This video offers some suggestions for other recordings.
(2) Repertoire: The BEST Debussy and Ravel String Quartets - YouTube


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## Malx (Jun 18, 2017)

Ravel's quartet has been covered in the String Quartet thread i'm sure you will find a lot of interest there:

Weekly quartet. Just a music lover perspective.

Use the link which will take you to the post that starts the discussion/comments on the Ravel. Within the thread there are a number of useful links - hope this is of use.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

The Debussy qt. was also the inspiration for Ravel, so it might be good to listen to it as well or even before.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Though I enjoy both the Ravel and Debussy String Quartets, I really prefer the dynamics and esthetics of the earlier Debussy work. My favorite performances are by the Budapest String Quartet and Quartetto Italiano. Each presents the two pieces together on my individual stereo lp recordings. Asked to choose which group I prefer, it would be the Budapest for its ability to bring to its interpretations both electricity and a special magic. Very satisfying.


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

Ravel's String Quartet is my favorite SQ of all, and I favor the Alban Berg String Quartet.


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## hammeredklavier (Feb 18, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> Ravel's String Quartet is my favorite SQ of all, and I favor the Alban Berg String Quartet.


So you favor the Berg quartet over the Ravel, even though the Ravel is your favorite of all?
I'm just kidding


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

I prefer the Ravel quartet to its usual discmate, the Debussy, but both are key SQ works. Obviously the OP has read my review (thank you). It's one I may have to revisit as I have acess to a few more accounts that I didn't at the time and I have altered it several times, demoting and upgrading performances quite often. Regulars will know I'm a sucker for pizzicato so the 2nd movement is very important for me personally (I dislike inaudible / tame pizzicato) but sharp accents and propulsive rhythms go a long way for me in this quartet. There are so many recordings of this quartet that finding one that resonates is not difficult but, as much as I love the Itallianos in this one, I'd definitely also recommend hearing some of the more recent quartets who breathe new life into this old warhorse (Hermes, Jerusalem, Modigliani, etc). I found a lot of under-the-radar recordings of this one so if you're prepared to step out of the safety zone of the recordings constantly recommended by certain critics, Trout's Amazon-based reviews, etc there is a lot to find. There's more than one way to play this one so if you have a streaming service do some comparisons.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Merl said:


> I prefer the Ravel quartet to its usual discmate, the Debussy, but both are key SQ works. Obviously the OP has read my review (thank you). It's one I may have to revisit as I have acess to a few more accounts that I didn't at the time and I have altered it several times, demoting and upgrading performances quite often. Regulars will know I'm a sucker for pizzicato so the 2nd movement is very important for me personally (I dislike inaudible / tame pizzicato) but sharp accents and propulsive rhythms go a long way for me in this quartet. There are so many recordings of this quartet that finding one that resonates is not difficult but, as much as I love the Itallianos in this one, I'd definitely also recommend hearing some of the more recent quartets who breathe new life into this old warhorse (Hermes, Jerusalem, Modigliani, etc). I found a lot of under-the-radar recordings of this one so if you're prepared to step out of the safety zone of the recordings constantly recommended by certain critics, Trout's Amazon-based reviews, etc there is a lot to find. There's more than one way to play this one so if you have a streaming service do some comparisons.


I use Spotify so I think I will sample some different recordings


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## Enthusiast (Mar 5, 2016)

I am not sure I could rank the Ravel and Debussy quartets. I love both but they differ quite a lot. That they are so often coupled does an accidental disservice to both.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Eva Baron asks,

"1. How do you rate this compared to it’s disc buddy, Debussy’s quartet?"

I think they are two of the most extraordinary string quartets that anyone has composed. So, for me, it's pointless to try to rank one above the other. Though granted, Ravel's Quartet was unquestionably modeled after Debussy's, which was composed 10 years earlier (as they have the same formal lay out). But Ravel's Quartet is a masterpiece in its own right.

We perhaps owe the final state of Ravel's Quartet to Debussy because Ravel's teacher, Gabriel Fauré--to whom Ravel dedicated his quartet--didn't like the 4th movement, telling his pupil that it was "stunted, badly balanced, in fact a failure." Which caused Ravel to seriously consider changing the 4th movement, etc.. But fortunately Debussy disagreed with Fauré and wrote Ravel a letter in 1905, saying “In the name of the gods of music and in my own, do not touch a single note you have written in your Quartet.” This letter encouraged Ravel not to change the work & to trust his own musical instincts, despite that they had gotten him expelled from the Paris Conservatory & prevented him from ever winning the Prix de Rome prize (as unbelievable as that may sound to us today, but conservatory students back then were expected to rigidly follow the 'academic' rules of composition, & while Debussy had previously conformed just enough to win the Rome prize, Ravel did not).

"2. Are there things that I should know before listening? Maybe a certain detail that is worth knowing to increase my enjoyment of listening to the piece?"

Yes, you should know that Javanese gamelan music influenced both Debussy & Ravel, & here we find its influence in the pizzicato 2nd movement of Ravel's Quartet. While you don't need to listen to gamelan music prior to hearing the quartet to enjoy it, you might want to familiarize yourself with this exotic, non-western music at some point, & then try to pick out where & how it influenced both Ravel and Debussy. (I'll give you two other prime examples below.)

It was Erik Satie that first insisted Debussy go hear a Javanese gamelan orchestra concert in Paris, & the experience ended up changing Debussy's aesthetic & western music forever. With Ravel it was more of a superficial influence, by comparison, but the results were no less brilliant. However, I should point out that Ravel was also indirectly influenced by gamelan music through his admiration of Debussy's music and the rebellious example that it set.

Here is an important quote from Debussy written in 1913, where he summarizes his thoughts about gamelan music & why and how it changed his musical aesthetic--i.e., by being more closely tied to the "eternal" rhythms of nature and to the cosmos than music that dryly observed any set of formal rules found in western treatises,

"There used to be—indeed, despite the troubles that civilization has brought, there still are—some wonderful peoples who learn music as easily as one learns to breathe. Their school consists of the eternal rhythm of the sea, the wind in the leaves, and a thousand other tiny noises, which they listen to with great care, without ever having consulted any . . . dubious treatises. Their traditions are preserved only in ancient songs, sometimes involving dance, to which each individual adds his own contribution century by century. Thus Javanese music obeys laws of counterpoint that make Palestrina seem like child's play. And if one listens to it without being prejudiced by one's European ears, one will find a percussive charm that forces one to admit that our own music is not much more than a barbarous kind of noise more fit for a traveling circus."

(The above quote is drawn from the following excellent article on the important role that gamelan music played in Debussy's music, & therefore Ravel's, too: Claude Debussy's Gamelan - College Music Symposium)

With that in mind, now here's a link to an actual gamelan concert, & you don't need to listen to all of it (unless you want to), but in light of Debussy's 1913 quote, I think it would be helpful and instructive (& eye opening) to listen to a portion of it, so that you can begin to get some idea about how this music is so closely aligned to Debussy's own music, & especially rhythmically:






Now, when you listen to the second movement of Ravel's quartet, it should become clear how the pizzicato effects of Ravel's strings are more or less a substitute for the sounds of the gamelan and bells heard in the Indonesian music.

As promised, here are two other works by Ravel and Debussy where the gamelan influence is quite prominent,

1. The "Pagodes" movement from Debussy's "Estampes" for solo piano, which is unlike any western piano work that had come before it. In this piece, Debussy throws out all the western rules and uses gamelan-like rhythms. They shouldn't work--at least not according to the 'classical' rules, & yet Debussy makes them work brilliantly!:






2. The "Laideronette; Apothéose. Le jardin féerique" section from Ravel's orchestral work, Ma mère l'Oye, or Mother Goose Suite. Here the gamelan influence is unmistakable:






Now that you've heard this gamelan influence in both Debussy & Ravel, you should be able to recognize it in some of their other works, too. For example, it's all over Debussy's 1902 opera, Pelléas et Mélisande--at least in the hands of the right conductor (such as Roger Désormière or Charles Dutoit), but not so much in the performances by conductors that take a more Wagnerian view of Debussy's opera (such as Karajan). & La Mer, too. I believe it's also in Ravel's solo piano work, "Gaspard de la Nuit"--though there are middle eastern influences in that piece, as well.

Of course, gamelan wasn't the only influence on these two composers. They were both extremely eclectic. For example, there are middle eastern & Spanish folk influences in their music, as well, and in Ravel's case a Basque influence (such as in his piano trio), which was part of his heritage; as well as the influence of American jazz and ragtime music. The writings of Edgar Allan Poe, Charles Baudelaire, Stéphane Mallarmé, Paul Verlaine & French symbolist poetry were also hugely influential on Debussy & Ravel, and especially in their mélodies (including their evocative chamber songs). In short, basically anything that influenced Debussy likewise influenced Ravel; including the thoughts & guidance of Debussy's mentor, Erik Satie, whose influence on both composers gets underestimated. After all, it was Satie who first mentioned to Debussy that he was 'thinking' about composing an opera on Pelléas et Mélisande, & evidently Debussy thought that was a very good idea...

Among these other influences, I think you'll hear some jazz influence in Ravel's String Quartet, too.

If you're curious to explore other people's thoughts on this quartet, here's a good, but brief 'Carnegie Hall' introduction to the work: 




& an article by musician Timothy Judd on his blog, "The Listener's Club" (from which I drew my quotes of Fauré's low estimation of the quartet and Debussy's 1905 letter to Ravel): Ravel's String Quartet in F Major

Here too is a more in depth analysis of the quartet by Bruce Adolphe (who strangely resembles Ravel), though you might want to wait until after you've heard the work a couple of times to delve into this lecture, since it can be somewhat technical, & perhaps overly so for someone who is simply looking to get to know this wonderful music for the first time. Granted, Adolphe does provide many interesting insights into Ravel's score, but at the same time, I have mixed feelings about whether such magical music should be dissected & analyzed, as such. Yet his talk may interest you, plus he has a funny sense of humor,






"3. Are there any other performances really worth hearing besides the Quartetto Italiano recording?"

The Quartetto Italiano recording has long been highly praised by listeners & critics alike. However, it doesn't figure on my own list of top three recordings for these works, i.e., those recordings that I'd consider to be extra-special performances. They are as follows (& I'd prefer not to rank them),

--Parkanyi Quartet (this group is the original Orlando Quartet, reformed with a new cellist): String Quartet in G Minor, Op. 10, L. 85: I. Animé et très décidé

--Orlando Quartet--Unfortunately, the Orlando's performance isn't on You Tube: Debussy, Ravel, Orlando Quartet - String Quartets - Amazon.com Music

--Galimir Quartet--This is the later 1983 digital recording by the Galimir quartet, & not their 1934 recording that was made under the supervision of the composer, when they were the 'Galimir Quartet of Vienna'. On the earlier 1934 recording, Felix Galimir performed with his three sisters, but on this later version he hand picked several other extremely fine musicians to perform with him. Unfortunately, I can't find their 1983 Ravel recording on You Tube, but here's a clip of the third movement of their Debussy Quartet to give you some idea of the rare quality of musicianship that we're talking about here:

Claude Debussy: String Quartet in G Minor, L.85, Op.10: III. Andantino doucement expressif
Debussy, Ravel, Galimir Quartet - Debussy / Ravel String Quartets - Amazon.com Music

I certainly wouldn't want to be without any of those three recordings. However, I should also mention that the Talich, Alban Berg, Emerson, Melos, Ys_ä_ye, Italiano & Orpheus string quartets are all worthwhile in this music, too, & together would round out my personal list of top ten recordings for these works.

In addition, I know there have been a number of other excellent recordings in recent years, and here Merl will be able to best guide you, since I haven't heard nearly as many of the recent ones as he has. (Though I do know that he likes the Modigliani SQ recording, which I've yet to hear myself.)

However, I did recently listen to & like the following recording by the Daedalus Quartet, whose Ravel doesn't come coupled with the usual Debussy SQ, but rather with works by Sibelius & Stravinsky. I may have to clear a spot on my top ten list for this exceptional reading, & they're well recorded, too. (By the way, their Haydn Op. 20 set is likewise fantastic),









String Quartet in F Major, M. 35: I. Allegro moderato, très doux


Provided to YouTube by NAXOS of AmericaString Quartet in F Major, M. 35: I. Allegro moderato, très doux · Daedalus QuartetSibelius, Stravinsky & Ravel: Strin...




www.youtube.com





I know from TC threads that other listeners have liked the Ebène Quartet's suave, award-winning recording, as well. But several years ago I sat down & compared them closely to the Parkanyi & Orlando Quartets, and despite the Ebène's account being very fine, I nevertheless found that I preferred the latter recordings. Of course, you (& others) may feel differently...









String Quartet, M. 35: I. Allegro moderato - Très doux


Provided to YouTube by Warner ClassicsString Quartet, M. 35: I. Allegro moderato - Très doux · Quatuor ÉbèneDebussy, Fauré & Ravel: String Quartets℗ 2008 Era...




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Among those recordings to avoid, the one that I'd most urge you to stay away from is the recording by the Budapest String Quartet, who don't seem to be able to tune their instruments properly. It always surprises that their devoted followers don't seem to mind how consistently off-note they can be. I'd imagine that Ravel would have minded though. (Two minutes of listening to the following clip should be enough to convince you: Maurice Ravel-String Quartet in F Major (Complete).) I'm also not overly crazy about the Juilliard Quartet recordings, either, but they too have a following.

Whichever recording or recordings you listen to, I'd strongly urge you to hear this magical quartet live in concert at some point (after the pandemic has left us), since no recording compares to hearing this music played live by a world class ensemble. (The same is true for Ravel's 'war time' Piano Trio, which is even more spellbinding when it is heard live in recital than on a recording.)

Finally, for future reference, I wanted to add that listening to the chamber music of the French period in the late 19th century & early 20th century has been one of the highlights of my years of exploring classical music. & I certainly wouldn't want to have stopped at just the Ravel & Debussy String Quartets, considering that there are so many other wonderful chamber works from this time, such as Debussy's 'other worldly' Sonata for Flute, Viola, & Harp, for instance (which if you don't know, I'd strongly recommend--see my links below).

So, if, at some point you find yourself wishing to explore other chamber works from the French (& Belgian) 'impressionist' & early modern period, here's a (IMO, golden) selection of CDs that I've especially enjoyed over the years & would strongly recommend (though note that there will be some duplicating of works between them, given their common repertory),









Introduction And Allegro For Harp, String Quartet, Flute And Clarinet


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesIntroduction And Allegro For Harp, String Quartet, Flute And Clarinet · Skaila Kanga · Philippa Davies · Michae...




www.youtube.com





(Apart from the Nash Ensemble's recording on CRD, there are other excellent versions of the Ravel Piano Trio, too, but most especially by Trio Dali, who are incredibly insightful in this music: Trio Dali - Ravel Piano Trio - I. Modéré, and the lesser known, but very fine Arden Trio: Piano Trio in A Minor: I. Modere ; as well as from the Capuçon brothers with pianist Frank Braley: Ravel - Piano Trio In A Minor, & Trio Wanderer. Lastly, among the earlier non-digital era recordings, there's a very good 1973 account on Erato from the Kantorow-Muller-Rouvier trio, which was used quite effectively in the French film, "Un Coeur en Hiver"--translated, "A Heart in Winter": Ravel: piano trio in A minor. Kantorow, Muller, Rouvier.)









Debussy Sonate pour flûte, alto et harpe Laskine/Pasquier/Rampal


I- Pastorale: Lento, dolce rubatoII- Interlude: Tempo di MinuettoIII- Finale: Allegro moderato ma risolutoJean-Pierre Rampal, flutePierre Pasquier, violaLily...




www.youtube.com













Roussel: Sérénade pour flûte, violon, alto, violoncelle et harpe, Op. 30: I. Allegro


Provided to YouTube by Universal Music GroupRoussel: Sérénade pour flûte, violon, alto, violoncelle et harpe, Op. 30: I. Allegro · Montreal Chamber PlayersAu...




www.youtube.com













Introduction et Allegro, M. 46: Introduction et allegro, M. 46


Provided to YouTube by PIASIntroduction et Allegro, M. 46: Introduction et allegro, M. 46 · Academy of St. Martin in the Fields Chamber Ensemble · Skaila Kan...




www.youtube.com













Piano Quintet No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 89: I. Molto moderato


Provided to YouTube by NAXOS of AmericaPiano Quintet No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 89: I. Molto moderato · Peter Orth · Auryn QuartetFauré: Piano Quintets Nos. 1 & 2...




www.youtube.com













Franck - Violin Sonata In A Major


Kaja Danczowska , violin - Krystian Zimerman, pianoI. Allegretto ben moderatoII. Allegro 6:22III. Ben moderato: Recitativo - Fantasia 14:58IV. Allegretto poc...




www.youtube.com













Concert à cinq for flute, harp, violin, alto and cello, Op. 71


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesConcert à cinq for flute, harp, violin, alto and cello, Op. 71 · Joseph Jongen · Ensemble ApræJongen: Chamber W...




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Anne Sofie von Otter: The complete "3 Poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé" (Ravel)


3 Poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé (1913):I. Soupir 00:00II. Placet futile 04:19III. Surgi de la croupe et du bond 08:52Ravel, Maurice (1875-1937) -composerAnne S...




www.youtube.com












Maurice Ravel, Ernest Chausson, Frank Martin, Maurice Delage, Camille Saint-Saens, Francis Poulenc, Gabriel Fauré, Anne Sofie von Otter, Bengt Forsberg - Anne Sofie von Otter - La Bonne Chanson [French Chamber Songs] - Amazon.com Music


Maurice Ravel, Ernest Chausson, Frank Martin, Maurice Delage, Camille Saint-Saens, Francis Poulenc, Gabriel Fauré, Anne Sofie von Otter, Bengt Forsberg - Anne Sofie von Otter - La Bonne Chanson [French Chamber Songs] - Amazon.com Music



www.amazon.com













Delphine Seyrig / The Nash Ensemble : Les Chansons de Bilitis (Debussy/Louÿs)


Claude Debussy (1862-1918) / Pierre Louÿs (1870-1925) : Les Chansons de BilitisI. Chant pastoralII. Les ComparaisonsIII. Les ContesIV. ChansonV. La Partie d'...




www.youtube.com













Debussy:Violin&Cello Sonatas/Sonata For Flute-Viola&Harp&Syrinx(Boston Symphony Chamber Players)


Note on video:Track 1a-c-Debussy:ViolinSonata & (another Track 1a-c-should have been labeled Track 1-d-f)-Debussy:Cello Sonata/.Track 2a-c-Sonata For Flute-...




www.youtube.com













Fauré: Piano Quartets






www.hyperion-records.co.uk













Koechlin - Sonata pour piano et alto, Op 53 (1915)


Piano : Christoph KellerAlto : Christop Schiller 0:00 : Adagio4:49 : Scherzo11:25 : Andante15:15 : Final




www.youtube.com





Christophe Keller & Ensemble Zürich:








Koechlin - Paysages et Marines (1989) pour piano, flûte, clarinette...


0:00 :1:46 : 3:56 : 5:39 : 7:33 : 9:55 : 12:23 : 13:11 : 14:09 : 16:04 : 17:27 : 19:21 :




www.youtube.com













Sarah Walker: La Bonne chanson by Gabriel Fauré


Gabriel Fauré (1845-1924)La bonne chanson, Op. 61 (by Paul Verlaine)00:00 1.Une sainte en son auréole02:40 2.Puisque l'aube grandit04:43 3.La lune blanche lu...




www.youtube.com













La chanson perpétuelle Op.37 - Lent, dans le sentiment d'une chanson populaire


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesLa chanson perpétuelle Op.37 - Lent, dans le sentiment d'une chanson populaire · Sandrine Piau, Régis Pasquier,...




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Rapsodie for Cor Anglais


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesRapsodie for Cor Anglais · Nicholas Daniel · Julius Drake · Claude DebussyFrench Chamber Music for Woodwinds, V...




www.youtube.com












Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: I. Pastorale


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesSonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: I. Pastorale · William Bennett · Roger Tapping · Ieuan Jones · Claude Debussy...




www.youtube.com












Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: II. Interlude


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesSonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: II. Interlude · William Bennett · Roger Tapping · Ieuan Jones · Claude Debuss...




www.youtube.com












Sonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: III. Final


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesSonata for Flute, Viola and Harp: III. Final · William Bennett · Roger Tapping · Ieuan Jones · Claude DebussyFr...




www.youtube.com













Poèmes De Ronsard Pour Flûte Et Voix - I. Rossignol (Albert Roussel)


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesPoèmes De Ronsard Pour Flûte Et Voix - I. Rossignol (Albert Roussel) · Michel Moragues, Sandrine PiauIntégrale ...




www.youtube.com












Poèmes De Ronsard Pour Flûte Et Voix - II. Ciel, Air Et Vent (Albert Roussel)


Provided to YouTube by The Orchard EnterprisesPoèmes De Ronsard Pour Flûte Et Voix - II. Ciel, Air Et Vent (Albert Roussel) · Michel Moragues, Sandrine PiauI...




www.youtube.com













Darius Milhaud: Sonata No.2 per violino e piano, Op.40 (1917)


Darius Milhaud (1892-1974): Sonata No.2 per violino e pianoforte, Op.40 (1917).1. Pastorale2. Vif3. Lent4. Trés vifJosef Malkin, violinoMarcel Worms, pianoCo...




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Etc.

Hope that helps.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

^^ I cannot thank you enough for this amazing post, that will surely keep me listening for a long while. I really like that you pointed out the influences of other kinds of music on the the string quartets, IMO as a performer it is very important to be aware of those so you can shape your interpretation even better, and as a listener I now know as well thanks to you. Also thank you for your other recommendations of French chamber music. I haven’t really started exploring chamber music except for a handful of works but since you have given such excellent advice I might as well start with french chamber music!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

EvaBaron said:


> ^^ I cannot thank you enough for this amazing post, that will surely keep me listening for a long while. I really like that you pointed out the influences of other kinds of music on the the string quartets, IMO as a performer it is very important to be aware of those so you can shape your interpretation even better, and as a listener I now know as well thanks to you. Also thank you for your other recommendations of French chamber music. I haven’t really started exploring chamber music except for a handful of works but since you have given such excellent advice I might as well start with french chamber music!


Jos' posts are always highly informative and fascinating. Funny, you should mention the Daedalus recording. I finally got to hear it last week and it's a mighty fine one (as Jos said, check out their Haydn which is brilliant too) so I added it into my blog review. I've still not been able to get hold of the Parkanyi account yet, Jos but I've added a couple of other ones that I didn't get to hear or heard in low quality the first time around (Signum, etc).

Edit: the Parkanyi account has finally been added to Spotify so I listened earlier (then listened again). I agree with Jos, it's a superb performance (love the ensemble playing in the 4th movement especially). Added it to my blog along with a superb Mandelring account.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Apologies for the double-post but I've completely updated my Ravel SQ blog after listening to some I had no access to at the time and a few new ones. I've also put them into 4 sets rather than the original 3.









Ravel - String Quartet in F major (SQ review)


Here's the Sacconi Quartet playing the Ravel live at Wigmore Hall.... I've loved this string quartet since the very first time I heard it and play it fairly often. I still marginally prefer it to its usual disc companion, Debussy's String Quartet, and I've had a number of recordings of it...




www.talkclassical.com


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Eva Baron writes,

"I cannot thank you enough for this amazing post, that will surely keep me listening for a long while. I really like that you pointed out the influences of other kinds of music on the string quartets, IMO as a performer it is very important to be aware of those so you can shape your interpretation even better, and as a listener I now know as well thanks to you."

It was my pleasure, Eva. I'm nuts about Debussy & Ravel, so I'll take any chance I get to talk about them. & I completely agree with what you said about musicians needing to know the various musical influences on composers. That is especially true with Debussy & Ravel since they were so eclectic in their influences. (Edit: Speaking of which, I totally forgot to mention in my previous post that both composers were strongly influenced by the French baroque as well, & especially the music of François Couperin & Rameau; along with the Russian composers working in Paris at the time, such as Stravinsky's ballets, & Nikolai Tcherepnin's ballet, Narcisse et Echo, which actually preceded Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé, etc.).

In reference to your comment, a quick example that comes to mind is Ravel's "Prelude" for piano. Most pianists I've heard on record don't hear or spot the jazz influence in this piece, so it's not in their interpretations. Yet, I've heard two pianists that do get it, Samson François and Jean-Yves Thibaudet, & not surprisingly, both François and Thibaudet spent time playing jazz: especially François in Paris during the jazz club craze of the late 1950s & 1960s, but also Thibaudet by performing and recording the music of jazz pianist Bill Evans. So naturally they see the jazz inflections in this work.

Granted, it's only a short piece, but it still makes a world of difference, interpretatively, when it is played with a jazz-like feel. In fact, François almost plays it like it is jazz, which, IMO, makes his interpretation incomparable. (I don't usually believe in 'definitive' recordings, but François's recording here may be an exception.) If you listen, I think you'll immediately hear what I'm talking about, & I don't think you'll ever hear the Prelude played quite like this by anyone else (indeed, François was a friend of the great jazz pianist, Bud Powell, during Powell's years in Paris),

--Samson Francois,









--Jean-Yves Thibaudet,





I also wanted to add that the gamelan influence is more pervasive in Debussy's music than people often realize. So, at some point, if you get focused on Debussy (& I've just noticed the French flag on your moniker, so that's probably inevitable!, since he's a part of your wonderful heritage), you'll need to hear other gamelan clips than just the one that I provided in my previous post. But when you start to hear the gamelan rhythms in sections of the sung dialogue in Pelleas et Melisande, for instance, then you'll know that you've zero'd in on it.

Of course, it works both ways, too. For example, the American jazz musicians that for a time lived & played in Paris were influenced by Debussy, Satie, Ravel, Poulenc, etc.. Duke Ellington, for instance, studied Debussy's scores intensely & learned a great deal from them, while pianist Bill Evans likewise learned by closely studying the harmonic language in Debussy's solo piano music (which would later influence Miles Davis). In addition, many of the subsequent composers of the 20th century were likewise strongly influenced by Debussy (& Ravel): such as Bartok, Stravinsky, Delius, Milhaud, Messiaen, Boulez, Ligeti, Knussen, etc. In reference to Debussy's Prélude à l’après-midi d’un faune, Boulez once remarked, “The flute of the faun brought new breath to the art of music”. While Knussen called Debussy's influence on virtually all the music the came after him, "incalculable", adding, "The likelihood is that if a composer has not been influenced by such a figure, he has deliberately reacted against the aesthetic. I don’t think I have written a single note since I was 18 years old that doesn’t have Debussy hovering somewhere in the background... though perhaps that’s just wishful thinking."* & of course you can hear a strong Debussy, Satie, & Ravel influence in the music of the composers of the Iberian peninsula, too: such as in certain works by Albéniz, Falla, and Mompou. Not to mention the presence of Russian composers in Paris during the time of Diaghilev's Ballets Russes, as noted. So, there is definitely this kind of wonderful cross-pollination going on between musical cultures. How can you not love it?

*=Debussy: Playing with Colour

Merl,

I'm pleased that you finally got a chance to hear the Parkanyi's recording, and relieved that it made it into your top tier section (and not towards the bottom of the heap). The recording was fairly recently reissued on CD, I believe, since it's now on You Tube, as well. However, the original release was on hybrid SACD (though I don't know which format sounds better). 

I like that the Parkanyis play with a bit more tonal heft in the strings, considering that there are parts of the Ravel String Quartet that are almost orchestral in effect. So, their heftier sound serves them well in this music. Personally, I think a thinner, more wiry blend works a bit less well in Ravel's Quartet (even though the musicianship may be great).

I listened to the Daedalus recording again yesterday (since I've now bought it), & it's definitely growing on me, even more. They've somehow managed to provide a legitimately fresh & interesting new interpretation, which is no small feat considering how many times this music has been recorded.

Also, thanks for your kind compliment.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

> 3. Are there any other performances really worth hearing besides the Quartetto Italiano recording?


*Eroica Quartet *- paired with the Debussy in a period instrument performance. It is my favorite recording of both works.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Josquin13 said:


> Merl...
> 
> ... I like that the Parkanyis play with a bit more tonal heft in the strings, considering that there are parts of the Ravel String Quartet that are almost orchestral in effect. So, their heftier sound serves them well in this music. Personally, I think a thinner, more wiry blend works less well in Ravel's Quartet (even though the musicianship may be great).....


With so many recordings of that quartet around (I think the final number I found was around 200) its not hard to find a decent recording of it but special ones did, for me, have that "tonal heft" you mentioned. I still like some wiry and acerbic recordings too cos as long as a quartet can 'sell me' their vision and make it work that's all I want. There are two recordings that flit around that top group of mine and sometimes are in it and sometimes not. One is the Lindsays. It's a marmite account for most people as its nuanced and a little exaggerated but the conviction and love for this quartet shines through so sometimes you'll see it in the top half dozen and sometimes not. The same goes for the Quartetto Italiano recording. It's a classic recording and taken on its own sounds hard to beat. The problem comes in comparative listening when it starts to sound a little dated and slow. Yeah, that shouldn't influence me but when you have so many recordings the little things become more important and I'm not one of those people who is swayed by reputation or the prejudice of older critics. It was the 1st version I imprinted on and it's still a great one but these days I feel its been surpassed and I prefer a little more urgency and freshness here (I feel similarly about the Debussy it's paired with). I agree about the Daedalus being a 'grower' and likewise the Signum and Ebene recordings. What impresses about the Ebene is how fresh their phrasing and accents are. It didn't grip me as much on initial listens but over time it's grown considerably in my estimation. Who knows though, in another few years I'll probably feel differently (and there will probably be another 20 new or rediscovered recordings to go at). Lol.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Of course, I agree with you about tonal heft being an advantage in this almost orchestral sounding music. Most of my top ten picks above offer a thicker tonal blend, such as the Alban Berg, Melos, Orlando, Italiano, Ys_äye_ quartets, etc., in addition to the Parkanyis. But, like you, I do still occasionally listen to the leaner versions, as well--such as by the Arcanto Quartet, for instance--because I plain like the musicianship. So, I agree completely with what you're saying. [Edit: I've not heard the Eroica Quartet in this music-- who SanAntone mentions favorably, but would guess they fit into the leaner category, given their HIP focus in other recordings?]

Speaking of phrasing that grows on you, have you listened to the Galimir Quartet lately? I rate them more highly than you do. But I can't remember why you marked them down on your list?


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## Dirge (Apr 10, 2012)

Josquin13 said:


> [...]
> --Galimir Quartet--This is the later 1983 digital recording by the Galimir quartet, & not their 1934 recording that was made under the supervision of the composer, when they were the 'Galimir Quartet of Vienna'. On the earlier 1934 recording, Felix Galimir performed with his three sisters, but on this later version he hand picked several other extremely fine musicians to perform with him. Unfortunately, I can't find their 1983 Ravel recording on You Tube …
> [...]


YouTube link to Galimir Quartet [Vanguard ’83]


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

I saw it performed by the Telegraph String Quartet two weeks ago actually!


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Josquin13 said:


> ... Speaking of phrasing that grows on you, have you listened to the Galimir Quartet lately? I rate them more highly than you do. But I can't remember why you marked them down on your list?


Genuine mistake. Rectifying right now.


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

while i agree that both quartets are masterpieces i feel debussy's work is definitively the better piece; i also think the gamelan influence is minor in these pieces; i have lived in indonesia for 10 years and listened to gamelan music every day, but it would not strike me that its influence is important in these works; gamelan is very percussive whereas string instruments are not; regarding the selection i am happy with the alban berg, takacs, parkanyi, ebène, jerusalem and keller in my collection; all of them bring something valuable to the experience


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