# What about Virtual Instruments?



## Inspiracion original (Apr 16, 2016)

What are your thoughts about virtual instruments? Do you think they can replace a physical instrument? they are better or worst or the same?

A lot of composers on the web does not even need to read musical sheet to create tracks and even play an instrument, that is something that bothers me a little, (well a lot) by my side i have reached the conclusion that they are a new type of musicians, i ended up using those things too for audio quality measures.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

In the organ world we already have these. They can not, imho, ever replace the physical pipe organ, but when used for practice and/or composing, it seems like a good method to employ. There are programs like Hauptwerk, Jorgan and a few others that have come up in discussions on our sister site, MIMF. 

The rendering from these virtual organs is very good ... as well they should be as the stops (sounds) are from real pipe organs, recorded one note at a time. The organ having 61 keys for each manual, that's at least 73 pipes for each stop times 61 notes =4,453 individual tones recorded. And that's just for one stop ... and most organs have at least 22 stops. 

I know a fellow, Jean-Paul Verpeaux, who lives in France who, despite having Parkinson's, is able to use a program like Hauptwerk to compose for the organ, quite successfully. He would be able to "play" otherwise.


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## Inspiracion original (Apr 16, 2016)

Ohh, that is a nice answer, i never see them this way. thanks.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Possible but the resonance would not work as well as real instruments.


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## Antiquarian (Apr 29, 2014)

I hope that virtual instruments never supplant the real ones, and I think that they never will, at least in a concert setting. A year ago one of my friends gave me _finale 2008_, (granted, as a sort of a joke) a music notation software that allows you to compose, arrange, play, and print your music. I am a very inept composer, but even I could see that the _Garritan Personal Orchestra_ sounds included with the suite, though impressive, do not hold a candle to the real thing. They are useful for listening to your music, for tweaking certain aspects of composition, for reviewing problems, but only real instruments, in the hands of real musicians, can really bring out the humanity of music. I have no problem with modern composers using virtual instruments in concert settings if their compositions require them. I don't think that listening to Beethoven's 8th, through the agency of a computer to be very rewarding.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Possible but the resonance would not work as well as real instruments.


I am sure off that


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

ArtMusic said:


> Possible but the resonance would not work as well as real instruments.


You may underestimate the power of physical modeling. A computer can calculate the resonance of almost any environment with fair accuracy.

For myself I like to think of them as separate instruments, not replacements. In a similar vein, digital art should not try too hard to emulate paint. It's its own thing.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

As someone who uses virtual instruments extensively, I would say that while there have been and will continue to be enormous advances in technology, there is still a long way to go before they can replicate the real thing.
However, it depends a lot on the instrument and the context.

Because most people are hearing music via speakers or headphones, there are many instances when well programmed virtual instruments are indistinguishable from the real thing. However, live performance creates an insurmountable problem as the sound of a virtual instrument has to come out of speakers rather than a real instrument resonating in the room.

I'm pretty sure, given the choice/budget, most composers would choose to write for good flesh and blood musicians.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Physical modelling is impressive but whenever I listen to Pianoteq samples I'm disappointed by the plastic sound.
Sample based virtual instruments still give better results and maybe under certain conditions, they can be nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. I guess the more demanding, dynamic, expressive and complex the music gets, the quicker it will show that virtual instruments are used.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

DeepR said:


> Physical modelling is impressive but whenever I listen to Pianoteq samples I'm disappointed by the plastic sound.
> Sample based virtual instruments still give better results and maybe under certain conditions, they can be nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. I guess the more demanding, dynamic, expressive and complex the music gets, the quicker it will show that virtual instruments are used.


Yes, it does all depend on the music and how exposed the instrument is. The company Samplemodeling make very realistic brass instruments and there are a lot of good virtual woodwinds out there but not surprisingly it's the solo strings that are a real problem. That's the holy grail of developers and users and though some new ones have just hit the market you have to be very clever and painstaking with programming to fool a good ear.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

instruments are tools. It how the tool is used that makes the difference for me.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

norman bates said:


> instruments are tools. It how the tool is used that makes the difference for me.


That is true but a master craftsman will use the very best tools at their disposal! If you've ever tried putting together Ikea furniture with the wrong size screwdriver head................Lol


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Petwhac said:


> That is true but a master craftsman will use the very best tools at their disposal! If you've ever tried putting together Ikea furniture with the wrong size screwdriver head................Lol


But the wrong size screwdriver is still still handy for its intended use. Same with virtual instruments.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

Weston said:


> But the wrong size screwdriver is still still handy for its intended use. Same with virtual instruments.


Except when using too small a head results in shearing away the grooves in the screw!!

Also, something made 'on the cheap' may be noticeably lacking in 'quality'. I should know :lol:


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## Ilarion (May 22, 2015)

Weston said:


> But the wrong size screwdriver is still still handy for its intended use. Same with virtual instruments.


And if you can't force it, use a bigger hammer...


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## echmain (Jan 18, 2013)

It isn't virtual. If it makes a sound, it's a real instrument.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Or as Wayne Shorter once said "Your nervous system runs on electricity. Ain't nothing wrong with electricity."


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

echmain said:


> It isn't virtual. If it makes a sound, it's a real instrument.


They're virtual in the sense that they simulate the original accoustic instrument.


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## Petwhac (Jun 9, 2010)

DeepR said:


> They're virtual in the sense that they simulate the original accoustic instrument.


And what they lack in tone, expressivity, nuance, realism and variability they make up for in all having an 8 octave range! Hahaha!


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