# Perspective



## MyCubiclePenguin (Jan 21, 2019)

Sorry if there has been another thread similar to this in the past - I'm a newcomer.

Lately, I've been thinking about music in general, different genres, what appeals to different people, and overcoming biases either for or against a particular style/genre/artist. To give some background on why I'm even starting this discussion and to gain a better understanding of what I'm saying, I'm not necessarily a fan of classical music and have completely surrounded myself with rock music and its respective sub genres ever since I first heard the Beatles around 10 years ago. However, I've been surrounded by lots of classical music since I began playing violin about 8 or 9 years ago. I probably lack sufficient knowledge on classical music to even discuss anything on this forum, yet I felt compelled to discuss this with people whose tastes are completely different than mine. As I said, I've been playing violin for a while now (still in high school, though, so it's nothing very impressive), yet classical music has never stricken me in the way that the naughty, gritty, and intense sounds of ACDC, Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Van Halen, and even the more toned down rock n roll sounds of the Beatles.

To get to the discussion itself, I have been thinking lately as to why I don't particularly care for classical music despite the fact that I've been surrounded by it for more than half of my life thus far. I was in no way bashing the genre, but then it hit me - it isn't a genre at all. It's a time period. Classical, in the same way as modern music, is comprised of its own genres such as modern music has its rock, pop, rap, etc. Even though I have limited knowledge on the subject, it's easy to see that the quick raindrop-like tip-toe of Vivaldi is very different than the blatant drama of Tchaikovsky. Seemingly following the evolution of technology in the 20th century, music did, as well, and the blues that dated back to the Southern slaves singing on plantations influenced what we know as rock n roll in the early 50's. The difference between classical and modern, the two time periods in music since we emerged from the dark ages as far as I'm concerned (with their sub-periods, such as baroque and the late 60's), is entirely based on technology and historical context - classical had only the nature-based instruments to convey its mood, while modern had electric instruments, recordings, studio production, etc...

I also can't help but think why many today seem to not like classical even if they can respect it? I would, based on my previous paragraph, put it up to it being out of date, meaning that the mood classical was trying to convey worked well in context with when it came out, yet does not work well with the masses today who are more focused on the now (although I don't see how mumble rap and whatnot relates to modern society other than the fact that it seems to be spiraling into insanity). However, this may not be the case. I do get a kick out of classical every now and then (particularly "I Crisantemi" by Puccini - that's my personal favorite classical work), but why does it seem so off putting to many people? Is it the length? Are we so used to 3-6 minute songs that a 20-60 minute movement/symphony seems incredibly boring and drawn out? Is it how we were raised? 

I realize this post has somewhat devolved into a sort of human psyche examination, but I'd love to know the thoughts of anyone who reads this! No offense was meant in how I view classical, I'm just hoping that this forum allows that


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## Phil loves classical (Feb 8, 2017)

Welcome! I was more into pop and rock before than Classical. I played piano since I was 7 but hated it, until after my University days. Punk rock was my forte. You asked some interesting questions. I believe it is the accessibility of pop and rock, the amplified and produced sound which excites the ears. The song structures are never too hard to follow. 

I always liked Mozart and Vivaldi, even though they were too "light" for me most of the time. What really got me into the Classical genre (yes, it's a genre, not just a time period, there is contemporary Classical) was Beethoven's 5th Symphony. It was catchy, it captured moods of anger no other music could I that knew, and did it so very eloquently, and had a depth way beyond anything by Rock artists. I branched out from there. I still find a lot of large scale works hard to sit through, and stay focused throughout. It captures a certain poetry in music no other genre can, when I listen to Ravel's Pavane for a Dead Princess.


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

To start, I studied Classical piano from ages 3-16 but didn't really become a fan of it until college. 

You must discover what it is you value in music, and what is important to you and find music that fits that criteria. Be aware that these values can change over time, and that you may have several different values which apply to various types of music.

To exemplify, I value music that creates a highly interesting world that I love, and I seek out entire albums that accomplish this; like The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour album.

Classical examples that fit this are Debussy and Chopin's Nocturnes.

However, you may value technique but also value something heartfelt. Therefore something like Stevie Ray Vaughn AND Bob Dylan may do it for you.

Having bias is fine, and important in learning about yourself, you just must learn what your genuine bias is and not put in a superior light.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

MyCubiclePenguin said:


> Sorry if there has been another thread similar to this in the past - I'm a newcomer.
> 
> Lately, I've been thinking about music in general, different genres, what appeals to different people, and overcoming biases either for or against a particular style/genre/artist. To give some background on why I'm even starting this discussion and to gain a better understanding of what I'm saying, I'm not necessarily a fan of classical music and have completely surrounded myself with rock music and its respective sub genres ever since I first heard the Beatles around 10 years ago. However, I've been surrounded by lots of classical music since I began playing violin about 8 or 9 years ago. I probably lack sufficient knowledge on classical music to even discuss anything on this forum, yet I felt compelled to discuss this with people whose tastes are completely different than mine. As I said, I've been playing violin for a while now (still in high school, though, so it's nothing very impressive), yet classical music has never stricken me in the way that the naughty, gritty, and intense sounds of ACDC, Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Van Halen, and even the more toned down rock n roll sounds of the Beatles.
> 
> ...


You'll love Schoenberg.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

Things that are more intellectual are often things that are only enjoyed by a smaller percentage of people. This is just an aspect of the world we live in right now. Are the masses into science? Philosophy? etc.? Why do they generally seem to be more interested in shallow things at the moment? Is this just their nature, or does it have other causes such as upbringing and an educational system that dates back to the industrial revolution and is designed to churn out factory workers?

Humans have more potential but I see that potential being purposely and insidiously stifled.

Maybe it is time to think of ways to better educate people, rather than wondering if classical music is a thing of the past because the 'masses' aren't into it.

_Idiocracy_ the film is something I'm reminded of.

I'm also reminded of a saying: "Careful when following the masses, sometimes the 'm' is silent."


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## Captainnumber36 (Jan 19, 2017)

tdc said:


> Things that are more intellectual are often things that are only enjoyed by a smaller percentage of people. This is just an aspect of the world we live in right now. Are the masses into science? Philosophy? etc.? Why do they generally seem to be more interested in shallow things at the moment? Is this just their nature, or does it have other causes such as upbringing and an educational system that dates back to the industrial revolution and is designed to churn out factory workers?
> 
> Humans have more potential but I see that potential being purposely and insidiously stifled.
> 
> ...


Anything can be intellectualized, being intellectual only means having deep thoughts about something. We can be intellectual about cooking, sports, science, music, etc. People have different interests, science and philosophy aren't everything!


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## Frank Freaking Sinatra (Dec 6, 2018)

If you're really serious about classical music than this is the place to be... First rate analysis coupled with thought-provoking insights which help to illuminate the music.

So here I am - my home away from home.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

We have removed several purely political posts. Please remember that purely political or religious posts are only allowed in the Group Area.


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## philoctetes (Jun 15, 2017)

Dang I missed it. But the OP is well stated. It's an old question but the context is changing.

I think both Pavan for a Dead Princess and Bolero illustrate what Penguin is saying - Ravel would have agreed. Jeff Beck too. Almost any decent musician can play this music without the sheet music, yet it is uncommonly original and overpowering. Maybe that's why it upsets the purists. 

But CM tradition has been full full of ostinatos, dances, passacaglias, and bare naked melodies since the beginning, whenever that was. First the church, then the school, put it on a formalized pedestal. That's where it has separated itself from most other music. I think Ravel and Penguin are suggesting that these boundaries will morph and dissolve as the world gets smaller, smarter, and less exclusive.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Enjoy your rock music. You've got plenty of time ahead of you to explore other music. Go with the flow, because you can't force yourself to get into a certain kind if music when it's not the right time in your life.


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