# Best of British



## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Saw this list of greatest British composers (as voted for by the public, apparently) in the Mirror today, amongst other lists of Great Britons.

Composers

1. Sir Edward Elgar: Pomp And Circumstance March No 1 (Land of Hope and Glory)

2. Baron Lloyd-Webber : Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Chess

3. Gustav Holst: The Planets

4. Baron Benjamin Britten Peter Grimes, Billy Budd

5. William Byrd: Sing Joyfully

6. Ralph Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on Greensleeves, The Poisoned Kiss

7. David Arnold: Wrote the score for five Bond movies and Little Britain

8. Sir Harrison Birthwistle: Gawain, Mask of Orpheus

9. Thomas Ades: Powder Her Face

10. William Boyce: Heart of Oak, Ode for St Cecilia's Day

Link

I know this place loves its lists, so have at it.:tiphat:


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I stopped taking it seriously at #2.


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## Webernite (Sep 4, 2010)

Strange that Purcell didn't make it.


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## Air (Jul 19, 2008)

Art Rock said:


> I stopped taking it seriously at #2.


I stopped taking it seriously at #1.


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## 1648 (Mar 4, 2011)

Purcell, Tallis and Gibbons should've made the list as well.


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Air said:


> I stopped taking it seriously at #1.


I stopped taking it seriously when I saw that the list was in the Mirror!


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I stopped taking it seriously when I saw that the list was in the Mirror!


Indeed. Plus no Handel - the greatest of them all British composers! (Although he was born in Saxony, he spent most of his life in England and did become a naturalised English subject).


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

For list sake, my ten favorite British composers in no intended order, with examples of their works I like, not necessarily my most favorite works.

Elgar: Enigma Variations
Holst: The Planets
RVW: Symphony 5
Britten: Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge
Moeran: Symphony in G
Walton: String Quartet No. 2
Rawsthorne: String Quartet No. 2
Delius: In a Summer Garden
Arnold: Violin Sonata No. 2
Bridge: Cello Sonata


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## Orange Soda King (Sep 14, 2010)

Out of ignorance, I can't really complain at the list. I like Elgar's music, or what I've heard of it anyway. If there were a list of the top 10 British pianists, I would say John Ogdon is hands down #1.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Orange Soda King said:


> Out of ignorance, I can't really complain at the list. I like Elgar's music, or what I've heard of it anyway. If there were a list of the top 10 British pianists, I would say John Ogdon is hands down #1.


The Pauls have it. Crossley & Lewis.:tiphat:


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

I doubt that the list was based on a poll of the Mirror's readership. This is a tabloid newspaper par excellence. More likely it's a result of their Arts Editor producing something off the top of his/her head in an attempt to make the paper look as though as it has a more sophisticated audience than it really does.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Argus said:


> 2. Baron Lloyd-Webber : Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Chess


This, and no John Dowland? Gaaaah! I'll be depressed all day now.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I've been laughing my a** off at the various responses to this thread for the past couple of days. :lol:

Ahhh. Thanks for the comic relief all, and I feel your pain!


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Andy Loochazee said:


> I doubt that the list was based on a poll of the Mirror's readership. This is a tabloid newspaper par excellence. More likely it's a result of their Arts Editor producing something off the top of his/her head in an attempt to make the paper look as though as it has a more sophisticated audience than it really does.


But would an arts editor put Lloyd-Webber at number two and not include Purcell? The Mirror may not have a sophisticated audience, but 'composers' is only one of the categories included. For example David Beckham winning the athletes category seems like something that is more likely to be the result of a public vote than a decision of a specialist or group of specialists. Elgar sounds like the logical winner of a public vote to me - albeit more on the basis of tunes like, say, Rule Brittania than the cello concerto. And Lloyd-Webber could be number two on the basis of the voting from people that are only interested in the athletes or songwriters or any other of the categories. They could have voted for LW in the composers category because they don't know anybody else.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> But would an arts editor put Lloyd-Webber at number two and not include Purcell? The Mirror may not have a sophisticated audience, but 'composers' is only one of the categories included. For example David Beckham winning the athletes category seems like something that is more likely to be the result of a public vote than a decision of a specialist or group of specialists. *Elgar sounds like the logical winner of a public vote to me - albeit more on the basis of tunes like, say, Rule Brittania* than the cello concerto. And Lloyd-Webber could be number two on the basis of the voting from people that are only interested in the athletes or songwriters or any other of the categories. They could have voted for LW in the composers category because they don't know anybody else.


How Elgar could have won anything because of Rule, Britannia, I find rather puzzling since he didn't write it ... :lol:

But yes, what you say makes a lot of sense.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aksel said:


> How Elgar could have won anything because of Rule, Britannia, I find rather puzzling since he didn't write it ... :lol:


O well, Arne or Elgar - Rule Brittania or Land of Hope and Glory, what's the difference? :lol:


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> O well, Arne or Elgar - Rule Brittania or Land of Hope and Glory, what's the difference? :lol:


They sing both at The Last Night of The Proms, anyway. Same thing. :lol:


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

Aksel said:


> How Elgar could have won anything because of Rule, Britannia, I find rather puzzling since he didn't write it ... :lol:
> 
> But yes, what you say makes a lot of sense.


It was Thomas Arne, it being at the end of Act 3 to Alfred. And a lot of other very fine music he wrote too: Artaxerxes, Comus, Rosamund, lots of chamber music, overtures, many songs, several symphonies.


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> But would an arts editor put Lloyd-Webber at number two and not include Purcell? .


A very dim Arts Editor might. Especially the type the Mirror is likely to employ.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Andy Loochazee said:


> It was Thomas Arne, it being at the end of Act 3 to Alfred. And a lot of other very fine music he wrote too: Artaxerxes, Comus, Rosamund, lots of chamber music, overtures, many songs, several symphonies.


I've been thinking of listening more to Arne. I really only know Rule Britannia. 
I really don't know a lot of English music.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Aksel said:


> I've been thinking of listening more to Arne. I really only know Rule Britannia.
> I really don't know a lot of English music.


I only have Nicholas McGegan's recording of "Alfred" when it comes to Elg, eh, I mean Arne and he definitely sounds like an interesting composer.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

jhar26 said:


> I only have Nicholas McGegan's recording of "Alfred" when it comes to Elg, eh, I mean Arne and he definitely sounds like an interesting composer.


:lol:
[This is only to bypass the 10-charater limit. I really don't have anything more to add]


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Andy Loochazee said:


> A very dim Arts Editor might. Especially the type the Mirror is likely to employ.


Well, could be I suppose.


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

Andy Loochazee said:


> I doubt that the list was based on a poll of the Mirror's readership. This is a tabloid newspaper par excellence. More likely it's a result of their Arts Editor producing something off the top of his/her head in an attempt to make the paper look as though as it has a more sophisticated audience than it really does.


If they _were_ trying to make their readership look sophisticated, they did a heck of a job, putting Lloyd Webber in the #2 spot. Oh dear. :lol:


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> I only have Nicholas McGegan's recording of "Alfred" when it comes to Elg, eh, I mean Arne and he definitely sounds like an interesting composer.


He is. I'm definitely in an "Arne" mood this evening. Currently listening to a selection of his songs: When icycles hang, Where the bee sucks, Elegy to the death of Mr Shenstone, The Morning, Cymon and Iphigenia, Sleep, Gentle Cherub, Sleep Descend, Ode Upon dedicating a building to Shakespeare.

.


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

Meaghan said:


> If they _were_ trying to make their readership look sophisticated, they did a heck of a job, putting Lloyd Webber in the #2 spot. Oh dear. :lol:


Lloyd Webber was probably the only nomination they received from their readership that was remotely relevant, so the editorial board probably decided to top up up the list up with some proper composers. I bet even they struggled. The Mirror makes excellent fish'n chip wrapping paper, so it's not that bad.


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> I only have Nicholas McGegan's recording of "Alfred" when it comes to Elg, eh, I mean Arne and he definitely sounds like an interesting composer.


Artaxerxes is a better opera than Alfred. This is the version I like, but I didn't get the recommendation from reading the Mirror:


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## MusicSoundsNice (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm extremely disappointed that Walton did not make it onto here at all


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Andy Loochazee said:


> Artaxerxes is a better opera than Alfred. This is the version I like, but I didn't get the recommendation from reading the Mirror:


Thanks. :tiphat: And no, I bet you didn't. :lol:


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## Andy Loochazee (Aug 2, 2007)

jhar26 said:


> Thanks. :tiphat: And no, I bet you didn't. :lol:


With my compliments. Hope you enjoy it.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Here is an alternative list, ranked in order, which I compiled from all the British composers in the Classic FM Hall of Fame, based on their highest chart ranking:

*1. Ralph Vaughan Williams
2. Edward Elgar
3. Karl Jenkins
4. Gustav Holst
5. GF Handel
6. Jon Lord
7. George Butterworth
8. Thomas Tallis
9. Malcolm Arnold
10. Richard Addinsell
11. William Walton
12. Peter Maxwell Davies
13. Hamish MacCunn
14. John Barry
15. Gerald Finzi
16. Henry Litolff
17. Murray Gold
18. John Rutter
19. Frederick Delius
20. Michael Nyman
21. Hubert Parry
22. Nigel Hess
23. Henry Purcell
24. Howard Goodall
25. Ronald Binge
26. Jeremiah Clarke
27. Patrick Hawes*

LATER EDIT: Missed Purcell, and have now inserted him (no. 23).


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Rubbish as well. See 3, 6, 10, 14, 23 for starters. And no Benjamin Britten, no Arnold Bax.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Art Rock said:


> Rubbish as well. See 3, 6, 10, 14, 23 for starters. And no Benjamin Britten, no Arnold Bax.


Well, Classic FM isn't a very good radio station. All it plays is the popular staple diet. Note that 23 (Howard Goodall) is now 24 because I missed Henry Purcell, who I inserted as an edit.

That said, the list would look more reasonable if I had taken the number of pieces by a composer and their chart position into account. Handel would probably then be No. 3. However, it would take a long time to do.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Art Rock said:


> Rubbish as well. See 3, 6, 10, 14, 23 for starters. And no Benjamin Britten, no Arnold Bax.


Give Jon Lord a chance. Malcolm Arnold Liked him enough to work with him.\

No Herbert Howells mentioned either. And I've always considered Handel a German composer. There doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically English about his music (except for the language sometimes).


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Weston said:


> Give Jon Lord a chance. Malcolm Arnold Liked him enough to work with him.\


Is that the Jon Lord of Deep Purple fame?


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes. He is still writing "classical" music, though I confess his last album bordered on saccharine new age to me. I know he can do better.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Weston said:


> Give Jon Lord a chance. Malcolm Arnold Liked him enough to work with him.\


I have the concerto for rock band or whatever they called it. I love classical music and I love progressive rock and classic rock (including Deep Purple), but I hate that album. To list him as a classical composer is ridiculous (Paul McCartney would be more fitting in that respect), to list him as one of the best British composers of all time by whatever calculation method makes the list directly null and void.


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## harmony (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh... 
"Arnold Bax" is omitted.
His symphonies, tone poems and cello concerto are nice works.
I recommend ARNOLD BAX's orchestral works.


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

That's lists for you, I suppose - something is always going to displease based on the criteria (one list supplied by a mainstream classical station and the other supplied by a tabloid paper which I never thought would get involved in anything like that). A sad but nevertheless predictable omission for me is Robert Simpson and I'm surprised one or two people haven't fought Rubbra's corner yet.


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## Messiaen (Jan 24, 2011)

Tippett, Benjamin, Cardew, Ades, Turnage, Maw, Knussen, McCabe,...
I can't find out British composers that I scarcely know.

Aren't Sorabuji and Ohana British? 

James MacMillan?


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

Weston said:


> Give Jon Lord a chance. Malcolm Arnold Liked him enough to work with him.


The two Lord pieces that got him on the list were _Durham Concerto_ and _Boom of the Tingling Strings_. I haven't heard either, so I don't know if they're any good.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

It doesn't say it on the site but in the paper I think it said the survey was carried out by a gin company. I can't remember the exact name of the firm though.

I can't remember hearing any Jon Lord's classical stuff and I don't really like Jenkin's solo work but their time with Deep Purple and Soft Machine, respectively, produced some music I dig.

Handel is about as British as AC/DC.

I know nothing of his work, but I approve of the name Ronald Binge.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

Well, that shows what the _Mirror_ knows! Lloyd-Webber and David Arnold are not classical composers. Lloyd-Webber doesn't even write his own music anymore (a very-well-paid ghost writer does nearly all of it). A list of all-time greatest British composers would have to include (in no particular order except alphabetical):

Thomas Adès
Frank Bridge
Benjamin Britten
William Byrd
John Dunstable
Edward Elgar
Benjamin Frankel
James MacMillan
Nicholas Maw
Henry Purcell
Robert Simpson
Thomas Tallis
Ralph Vaughan Williams
William Walton
Samuel Wesley


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

People seem to have forgotten about Dowland again. He certainly deserves to be on any best British composer list.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

tdc said:


> People seem to have forgotten about Dowland again. He certainly deserves to be on any best British composer list.


Absolutely! Silly of me to have forgotten him.


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## jhar26 (Jul 6, 2008)

Delicious Manager said:


> Lloyd-Webber doesn't even write his own music anymore (a very-well-paid ghost writer does nearly all of it).


Recently I heard/saw a few tunes from 'his' new show The Wizard of Oz on the telly. They are the exact same Harold Arlen songs from the old movie with Judy Garland! He only added some new stuff (no doubt the weaker bits) to Arlen's old score. Kinda like if Corigliano would add a few arias of his own to Aida and present it as his new opera. But if what you say is true Lloyd-Webber didn't even come up with the new bits of Wizard himself.


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## JAKE WYB (May 28, 2009)

A top ten of greatest british composers is meaningless if it doesnt include BAX on it


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

Amen to that. In my personal top 10 he'd make #1.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Argus said:


> I can't remember hearing any Jon Lord's classical stuff


Scratch that. I heard a piece of his performed by the Smith Quartet called Zarabanda Solitaria on Radio 3 today. It was okay, certainly nothing 'new agey' or 'fluffy' about it. It just sounded like a fairly modern string quartet piece.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

I've found the _Durham Concerto_ on YouTube (part of it, anyway):

*



*


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## Orange Soda King (Sep 14, 2010)

Actually, John Ogdon WAS a composer as well as a pianist! I don't know enough of his music to know if he would be worthy of this list, though.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

I understand there's a measure of "piling on" to this post... but Arthur Sullivan has more business being on such a list than Andrew Lloyd-Webber.


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## fasolo (Apr 14, 2011)

Where are they?

And ode to greatness please...











That made my day.....


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