# Who are the 5 greatest English composers of all time?



## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Post Brexit, the only Britain is Benjamin Britten, so who are the 5 greatest English composers and what are their magnum opus’?

I would place Bax’s Tinagel above anything written by Elgar, RWV, Holt, Walton and Britten; while the only modernists with a credible body of work that I admire are Ferneyhough and Birtwistle - though I do like individual works by the likes of Cardew, Finnissy, Barrett and Benjamin (Knusson was Scottish!).

Most of the English composers I really love predate Purcell: Lawes, Gibbons, Dowland, Bull, Byrd & Tallis.

If I had to choose, it would be the following (chronological order):

1. William Byrd - Masses
2. John Dowland - Lachrimae
3. Henry Purcell - Dido & Aeneas
4. Harrison Birtwistle - The Triumph of Time
5. Brian Ferneyhough - String Quartets


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I'll interpret "greatest" as personal favourites.

1. Bax (November Woods)
2. Vaughan Williams (Symphony 5)
3. Moeran (Cello Concerto)
4. Britten (War Requiem)
5. Arnold (Symphony 9)

Next would be Finzi, Elgar, Simpson, Bantock, Alwyn.

I did not check, but I think all of these were English.


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## SanAntone (May 10, 2020)

I can only think of three.

Britten (Phaedra)
Purcell (Dido and Aeneas)
Dowland (Lachrimae, or Seaven Teares)
Byrd (masses for 3, 4, and 5 voices)
Bryars (Nothing Like the Sun)

I added selected works (although I usually don't think in this manner about composers), and two more composers.


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Vaughan Williams (Symphonies)
Purcell -all of it
Walton - Symphony 1
Elgar - cello concerto
Britten - serenade


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

In no particular order

Dowland
Britten
Vaughan Williams
Walton
Elgar


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

It would be a bit remiss of me to choose, as nearly all of the great composers pre-Elgar were from the Tudor/early Stuart era which, musically, does absolutely nothing for me at all. I'll simply settle for respecting the choices offered by everyone else, while hoping that Robert Simpson gets more than a couple of mentions.


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## mikeh375 (Sep 7, 2017)

Some Favourites...one additional at no extra charge.

Britten - War Requiem (and pretty much everything else).
V Williams - 5th Symphony.
Walton - 1st Symphony
Tippett - 3rd Symphony (or perhaps the 4th)
Birtwistle - The Triumph of time.
Ades - Arcadiana


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Post Brexit, the only Britain is Benjamin Britten, so who are the 5 greatest English composers and what are their magnum opus'?
> 
> I would place Bax's Tinagel above anything written by Elgar, RWV, Holt, Walton and Britten; while the only modernists with a credible body of work that I admire are Ferneyhough and Birtwistle - though I do like individual works by the likes of Cardew, Finnissy, Barrett and Benjamin (Knusson was Scottish!).
> 
> ...


Howard Skempton
Trevor Wishart
Michael Finnissy
Keith Rowe
Denis Smalley
Richard Emsley
Oliver Leith
Laurence Crane


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Favorites:

Vaughan Williams - Symphony no. 3
Moeran - String Quartet no. 1
Holst - The Planets
Butterworth - The Banks of Green Willow
Howells - Suite For Orchestra 'The B's'


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## marlow (11 mo ago)

Just to say Holst’s Planets is one of the greatest ever pieces ofBritish music even if the guy didn’t write too much else that got near it.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Serial bowl for me:

Richard Rodney Bennett (Spells, Violin Concerto, Zodiac)
Tristram Cary (Blood from the Mummy's Tomb soundtrack)
Humphrey Searle (Labyrinth)
Benjamin Frankel (Symphony No. 1)
Roberto Gerhard ("The Plague" cantata based upon Albert Camus)


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

............cancelled...........


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

No particular order:

Bax
Byrd
Elgar
Vaughan Williams
Walton


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Byrd, Purcell, Elgar are inarguable IMO. And then you have Britten and RVW. So that's that really.

John Dunstable is probably the most important English composer who ever lived, but it's a shame that little of his music survived the Dissolution of the Monasteries.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Art Rock said:


> I'll interpret "greatest" as personal favourites.
> 
> 1. Bax (November Woods)
> 2. Vaughan Williams (Symphony 5)
> ...


Art Rock, the Edwardian. Are we quite certain you're not Jacob Rees-Mogg?


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> Howard Skempton
> Trevor Wishart
> Michael Finnissy
> Keith Rowe
> ...


Unlike his AMM colleagues (Hobbs, Cardew & Tilbury), Rowe is purely and improviser with no background in composition; while Denis Smalley, whose Pulses of Time album is a personal favourite of mine, is a Kiwi. I also love Wishart's Beach Singularity…

…Obviously there is quite a lot of crossover between composition and improvisation. Emsley's For Guitar 1 is basically a composed Derek Bailey piece of improvisation…

It's great to see Emsley and Roger Redgate Profs at Kings & Goldsmiths. By contrast, the entire oeurve of Muhley and McMillan should be flung in a skip and burned…


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Unlike his AMM colleagues (Hobbs, Cardew & Tilbury), Rowe is purely and improviser with no background in composition; while Denis Smalley, whose Pulses of Time album is a personal favourite of mine, is a Kiwi. I also love Wishart's Beach Singularity…
> 
> …Obviously there is quite a lot of crossover between composition and improvisation. Emsley's For Guitar 1 is basically a composed Derek Bailey piece of improvisation…
> 
> It's great to see Emsley and Roger Redgate Profs at Kings & Goldsmiths. By contrast, the entire oeurve of Muhley and McMillan should be flung in a skip and burned…


Check out some of the piano pieces on Emsley's soundcloud - the longer ones.


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## Highwayman (Jul 16, 2018)

Chronological order:

Byrd
Dowland
Parry
Bridge
Ferneyhough


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> Check out some of the piano pieces on Emsley's soundcloud - the longer ones.


Will do. I only know his shorter pieces from Flowforms, which are nice and very Feldmanesque, in all but length…


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Dowland 
Purcell
Harvey
Ferneyhough 
Ades


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

1. Britten (Death In Venice)
2. Arnold (Symphony #5)
3. Elgar (Symphony #2)
4. RVW (Symphony #9)
5. Bax (November Woods)

Edited to place them in order of merit

Honourable mention, Arthur Bliss (A Colour Symphony)


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Will do. I only know his shorter pieces from Flowforms, which are nice and very Feldmanesque, in all but length…


There's one thing in Flowforms I really like - The Juniper Tree.


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## Red Terror (Dec 10, 2018)

Byrd
Purcell
Dowland
Britten


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Bulldog said:


> No particular order:
> 
> Bax
> Byrd
> ...


A few days ago, on another thread, I read that Bax was Nigerian (or something like that) so he might not count.


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## Dedalus (Jun 27, 2014)

No mention of Delius? Guess he wasn't so great in the end.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

1. Elgar - Cello Concerto
2. Vaughan Williams - The Lark Ascending
3. Holst - The Planets
4. Walton - Symphony No. 1
5. Finzi - Clarinet Concerto


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

"Who are the 5 greatest English composers of all time?"

Orlando Gibbons
Edward Elgar
Ralph Vaughan Williams
Gustav Holst
Benjamin Britten

Orlando Gibbons (1583-1625) composed beautiful church music of Orlando Gibbons is quite beautiful, as well as music for keyboard. The world-famous concert pianist, Glenn Gould, identified Gibbons as his favorite composer. I like Elgar just for the _Cello Concerto_, and Holst just for _The Planets_. Apart from Dmitry Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams probably composed the greatest symphony cycle with every symphony composed within the the 20th century. Benjamin Britten is one of the greatest opera composers of the 20th century but Britten also has a number of other great works, the _War Requiem_, as well as chamber works and a grand trifecta with the _Piano Concerto_, _Violin Concerto_, and _Cello Symphony_. My favorite piece by Britten is the wonderful _Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings_ that he composed for his good friend, Peter Pears; and _Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings_ is one of those great, rich, and lyrical Late-Romantic (or Neo-Romantic) pieces of voice and orchestra; right up there with Mahler's _Song of the Wayfarer_, Richard Strauss' _Four Last Songs_, and Barber's _Knoxville: Summer of 1915_.

While I understand Henry Purcell to be an outstanding English composer, and one of the most original of the Baroque era, I'm not familiar enough with Purcell's music to make an informed evaluation. Inclusion of George Frederick Handel is problematic despite his status of being central to the standard repertoire. Though born and bred in Germany, I always seemed to sense something somewhat "English" in Handel's output that warrants an identification with his adopted country; something very reverent and regal; as with the _Messiah_, _Music for Royal Fireworks_, and _Water Music Suite_.

Orlando Gibbons:








George Frederick Handel








Benjamin Britten and Peter Pears (_Serenade for Tenor, Horn and Strings_):








Ralph Vaughan Williams (_A Sea Symphony_ & _Sinfonia Antarctica_):


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

mikeh375 said:


> Some Favourites...one additional at no extra charge.
> 
> Britten - War Requiem (and pretty much everything else).
> V Williams - 5th Symphony.
> ...


I don't know enough about Michael Tippett to have included him in my own top five, but I do really like _Child of Our Time_. I have two excellent renditions on CD. One is by Richard Hickox with the London Symphony Orchestra and Chorus with an all-Black cast of soloists; and the other is by Colin Davis with the BBC Symphony Orchestra and Chorus featuring the wonderful Jessye Norman among other soloists.


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## Coach G (Apr 22, 2020)

Dedalus said:


> No mention of Delius? Guess he wasn't so great in the end.


I'm not a huge fan of Delius but I sure do love the _Florida Suite_ as one of the greatest orchestral pictures of the American landscape; right up there with Aaron Copland's _Appalachian Spring_ and Ferde Grofe's _Grand Canyon Suite_. Delius lived in Florida for a short time and loved it so much that when he returned to Europe and married his German bride, he returned to Florida for his honeymoon. Here again, I have two great renditions of Florida Suite in my own CD collection:


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

marlow said:


> Just to say Holst's Planets is one of the greatest ever pieces ofBritish music even if the guy didn't write too much else that got near it.


I have withdrawn my initial response to your post because of what I believed to be a misunderstanding on my part. Please accept my apology.:tiphat:


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## Kivimees (Feb 16, 2013)

Bax - Spring Fire
Bliss - Colour Symphony
Finzi - Clarinet Concerto
Howells - Concerto for String Orchestra
Vaughan Williams - Lark


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

*Britten* Peter Grimes, Simply Symphony, Young Person's Guide to Orchestra

*Elgar * Symphonies 1 and 2, Falstaff, Cello Concerto, In The South

*Vaughan Williams * Symphonies 3-7, Tallis Fantasia, English Folk Song Suite

*William Walton *score to Battle Of Britain, Symphonies 1 and 2, Belshazzar's Feast

*Purcell* Dido and Aeneas, Music for Funeral Of Queen Mary, Come Ye Sons of Art


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## Barbebleu (May 17, 2015)

HenryPenfold said:


> A few days ago, on another thread, I read that Bax was Nigerian (or something like that) so he might not count.


Definitely not Nigerian. Born in Streatham to prosperous, middle class parents. Can you point me to this hilariously misleading thread please?


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

I don't do much English buti have an affinity with Benjamin Britten and Edward Elgar.
The single greatest English work for me is The Planets by Gustav Holst. One of the greatest pieces of orchestral writing anywhere. Period


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

Subutai said:


> I don't do much English buti have an affinity with Benjamin Britten and Edward Elgar.
> The single greatest English work for me is The Planets by Gustav Holst. One of the greatest pieces of orchestral writing anywhere. *Period*


_Full stop_, if you please....


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

While the Masses are the greatest religious works that Byrd produced, his most important secular piece is the Battle, which addressed the slaughter of the innocents in Ireland at the hands of invading English forces. Byrd was a Catholic and had deep empathy…









Kraus is the only full version of the work I can find to download on iTunes.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

See what you think of Sokolov on a piano.






I would say that Byrd's most impressive secular works are the fantasy ut re mi fa sol la and the sequence of Pavans and Galiards in My Ladye Nevells Booke.


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## David Phillips (Jun 26, 2017)

In alphabetical order:

Bax

Elgar

Handel

Holst

RVW


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

David Phillips said:


> In alphabetical order:
> 
> Bax
> 
> ...


If Handel was an Englishman, then I'm a Dutchman!


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> See what you think of Sokolov on a piano.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Walsingham, My mind to me a kingdom is, Sellinger's round… the man was a goddam genius, who stood up Protestant persecution and almost paid for it with his life!

How differently we think of people from Essex these days: fake teeth/tans, Botox, hoopy earrings and STDs…


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Walsingham, My mind to me a kingdom is, Sellinger's round… the man was a goddam genius, who stood up Protestant persecution and almost paid for it with his life!
> 
> How differently we think of people from Essex these days: fake teeth/tans, Botox, hoopy earrings and STDs…







Not Byrd, but check this performance of Bull's Walssingham Variations. For me, Berben seems to reveal the anger in the music. He released an organ performance of it earlier this year, and Lanvellec.

I've never been to Wallsingham. I live in Wimbledon and so Essex is a bit harder to get to for weekends away than Sussex.


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

No idea which are England's greatest composers. Some of the main candidates (e.g Purcell and Dowland) are too early for me. Of the romantics, there's no-one that strikes me as being as obvious leader.

My own preference, however, is quite clear. Arnold and more Arnold. Particularly but by no means exclusively the symphonies.
Before discovering Arnold around 15 years ago, I had admired some of the Vaughan Williams symphonies and the 3rd, in particular, I still rate very highly. Robert Simpson I have a lot of time for but the symphonies can be too impersonal so my choice is a few of the quartets here.

In some moods I like certain Elgar works but most of the rest of the near contemporaries such as Bax, Holst, Delius, Walton etc do little or nothing for me. Of contemporary composers, Steve Elcock is probably the most interesting though not necessarily primarily the big symphonies which have made him to some degree known.


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

A personal favourite is John Wilbye. His madrigals were the most subtle, expressive and the most satisfying settings of English words that I've ever sung. I'll let Wikipedia take over:

Wilbye is probably the most famous of all the English madrigalists; his pieces have long been favourites and are often included in modern collections. His madrigals include Weep, weep mine eyes, Weep, O mine eyes and Draw on, sweet night. He also wrote the poem, Love not me for comely grace. His style is characterized by delicate writing for the voice, acute sensitivity to the text and the use of "false relations" between the major and minor modes.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Mandryka said:


> Not Byrd, but check this performance of Bull's Walssingham Variations. For me, Berben seems to reveal the anger in the music. He released an organ performance of it earlier this year, and Lanvellec.
> 
> I've never been to Wallsingham. I live in Wimbledon and so Essex is a bit harder to get to for weekends away than Sussex.


Great suggestion, as usual, Mandryka. I actually didn't know Walsingam was on that Berben when I had a quick listen to some of the Nomine pieces a few weeks back.

At first, I thought he'd recorded it on some sort of synthiziser, so reedy was the sound. Little did I know that it is in fact an early renaissance bretan organ. Such an unusual pipe sound - comparable to our own uillean pipes. I suppose we are both Celts!


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

dko22 said:


> No idea which are England's greatest composers. Some of the main candidates (e.g Purcell and Dowland) are too early for me. Of the romantics, there's no-one that strikes me as being as obvious leader.
> 
> My own preference, however, is quite clear. Arnold and more Arnold. Particularly but by no means exclusively the symphonies.
> Before discovering Arnold around 15 years ago, I had admired some of the Vaughan Williams symphonies and the 3rd, in particular, I still rate very highly. Robert Simpson I have a lot of time for but the symphonies can be too impersonal so my choice is a few of the quartets here.
> ...


What do you think are Arnold's three greatest works?

What I've heard, I've not liked and there's so much to trawl through!


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

I'll have to go with, in no particular order, 

William Alwyn - Symphony No. 2
Ralph VW - Symphony No. 2 (as well as 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9)
Adès - Piano Concerto
Elgar - Violin & Cello Concertos, Symphony No. 2
Purcell - Fairy Queen


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

Alinde said:


> A personal favourite is John Wilbye. His madrigals were the most subtle, expressive and the most satisfying settings of English words that I've ever sung. I'll let Wikipedia take over:


Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Never heard of Willbye before, but I'm relatively new to music of the 16th and 17th centuries. His Madrigals are really nice.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Ludwig Schon said:


> What do you think are Arnold's three greatest works?
> 
> What I've heard, I've not liked and there's so much to trawl through!


As "dko22" has not yet responded, I offer my 3 faves to Ludwig Schon during the meantime so trawling can commence.

-) Symphony No. 7










-) Electra, Op. 79 (1963)










-) *Nine Hours to Rama* soundtrack


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## Alinde (Feb 8, 2020)

Barbebleu said:


> Definitely not Nigerian. Born in Streatham to prosperous, middle class parents. Can you point me to this hilariously misleading thread please?


The poster's informant was confusing Bax with this composer?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Coleridge-Taylor


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Prodromides said:


> As "dko22" has not yet responded, I offer my 3 faves to Ludwig Schon during the meantime so trawling can commence.
> 
> -) Symphony No. 7
> 
> ...


Listened to the 1st movement of the 7th & Electra and - perhaps it's unconscious bias - but it just sounded like overly busy film music, with no intellectual rigour.

Dirk Bogarde in The Blue Lamp came to mind!


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## dko22 (Jun 22, 2021)

Ludwig Schon said:


> What do you think are Arnold's three greatest works?
> 
> What I've heard, I've not liked and there's so much to trawl through!


Most people seem to go for either the 5th or 7th symphonies and I'd agree. Although the 9th was blasted on release by the Establishment who regarded it as feeble-minded, many find this austere late utterance very moving. I have a particular affection for the little viola concerto though I'm not sure if I would try to claim "objectively" that it's among the greatest. Don't waste your time on the Dances and other light works if you really want to get to the heart of the composer.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Listened to the 1st movement of the 7th & Electra and - perhaps it's unconscious bias - but it just sounded like overly busy film music, with no intellectual rigour.
> 
> Dirk Bogarde in The Blue Lamp came to mind!


This is better than Pauly Shore in "Son in Law" coming to mind, innit?

If it sounds like film music, then this is a good thing according to me. Listeners are at different levels, of course, but we shouldn't expect every composer to reach a high-water mark (as if such high-water mark is an _ipso facto_ standard and not an indicator of a rare achievement).
If everything is expected to be high-brow, then middle-brow and low-brow will lose their meaning.
Something without intellectual rigour can still be O.K.


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Ludwig Schon said:


> While the Masses are the greatest religious works that Byrd produced, his most important secular piece is the Battle, which addressed the slaughter of the innocents in Ireland at the hands of invading English forces. Byrd was a Catholic and had deep empathy…
> 
> View attachment 166045
> 
> ...


I think the Battle is fantastic, one of my absolute favourite Byrd works. Davitt Maroney does a very cool idiomatic version on harpsichord in his complete keyboard recording of Byrd (which is also great).


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