# Composers with dense structures in their music?



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I've been experimenting with dense chord clusters and dense sound in general and I'm looking for inspiration I am aware of Pendrecki having done it earlier in his writing career but I'd like more examples if there are any, I'd appreciate the help thanks.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

Are you talking about dense structures or dense sounds?


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm looking for both or either.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

In an older idiom, I find the music of Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, and especially Medtner, to be very dense. Brahms is a very dense as well.

Slightly newer, I find Martinu, a composer who you just mentioned, very dense. 

Allan Pettersson, Swedish 20th century composer of many symphonies, writes very angry and dense music.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

The tone cluster's in the opening _Adagio_ of* Mahler's *10th symphony - I think it's a 9 note chord cluster - is a famous example.

I'm also thinking of piano repertoire here. Early 20th century. Eg. http://www.talkclassical.com/5742-henry-cowell.html who influenced *Bartok* (who's pretty huge in that, listen to his only piano sonata, Bartok actually wrote to *Cowell* for permission to use his techniques).

Also *Charles Ives,* his two piano sonatas, esp. the 2nd _Concord Sonata_, where a block of wood is used to bring out a chord that human hands on their own could not!

Speaking of Penderecki, Aussie *Peter Sculthorpe *was doing the same/similar innovations with clusters on strings, bowing on wrong side of the bridge, glissandos, new methods of notation. It was at the same time, 196o's, but they did not know what each the other was doing. The four _Sun Music_ pieces are seminal works in this style.

*Aaron Copland* & his friend *Carlos Chavez* where also doing things like this. Copland bought it into the mainstream, these blocked chords (which I think *Rachmaninov* did as well, those bell like sounds in his piano works & the tolling bells beginning the 2nd concerto). With Chavez, listen to his _Sym.#1, Sinfonia de Antigona_, for these glissandos, amazing as it was done in 1930's.

With density and layering, many things going on at once, *Holst's* _The Planets_ has plenty of this (esp. _Saturn, _the climax which I think has pentatonic elements?), also *Debussy's *_Jeux_, *Schoenberg's *_5 Pieces for Orchestra _& also *Varese* in _Ameriques _esp. & *Villa Lobos* in his _Choros_ pieces & _Rudepoema_ for piano.

Later, look to *Harry Partch, Elliott Carter, Iannis Xenakis, Karlheinz Stockhausen.* I cannot fathom *Boulez *in his _Sur Incises_ though, extremely complex/dense counterpoint - 3 each of pianos, percussionists, harpists. FULL ON!


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Any works by Copland that you recommend? One idea I have been playing with is using the sustain pedal to increase the density, instead of releasing like normal you hold it down so eventually the sounds blend together, has anyone else done something similar? Edit obviously a piano technique.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^ _ Vitebsk, study on a Jewish theme_ & also the _Piano Sonata_. I think his popular _Americana_ works also have these techniques - chord clusters esp. - but in more mainstream, populist setting. I like all I've heard from him, I think he's good overall.

THIS wikipedia article on tone clusters mentions in this context a Copland work I haven't heard,_ Three Moods_ (aka _Trois Esquisses; _1920-21) for piano.

*Leo Ornstein* is also mentioned, how could I forget him? Things like his _Wild Men's Dance (Dance Sauvage) _and _Suicide in an Airplane_ may be relevant to you as well...


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## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

LIGETI, especially the piano concerto, the piano etudes and the micropolyphonic works.


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I'll post a few of my improvisations later. Hopefully you people can tell me if my ideas are worth exploring or not.


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## Taneyev (Jan 19, 2009)

Taneyev's piano trio and quintet.
Reger's string quartets
Robert Simpson's string quartets


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

aleazk said:


> LIGETI, especially the piano concerto, the piano etudes and the micropolyphonic works.


*Ligeti* here too!


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