# SHOCK! Wagner Societies Cut Off From Bayreuth Tickets-



## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

Per a mailing from the Wagner Society of New York, earlier this month:

"... the Bayreuth ticket allocation that has been followed for many years has been dropped... per a Dec. 15th letter signed by Eva Wagner-Pasquier and Katharina Wagner. Excerpt: 'It is unfortunately no longer possible to accord special interest groups or tour operators any privileges in the allocation of tickets.'"

After working one's way through the language ["No longer possible?" Is this synonymous with "we choose not to?" Additionally, there's the chafe-worthy statement analogizing the non-profit Wagner Societies with for-profit tour operators.], one can't help but reflect on the previously symbiotic relationship between Bayreuth and Wagner Societies worldwide. It might be a stretch to suggest, as some have, that the Bayreuth Festival _never comes into being_ if not for the Wagner Societies... but it *is* inarguable that one of the founding missions of the Wagner Societies has to provide considerable support for the founding of the Bayreuth Festival, and ongoing support thereafter (via backing afforded Bayreuth through Societies affiliated with the International _Verband_).

Led by WSNY President Nathalie Wagner, all _Verband_-affiliated North American Wagner Societies have co-signed a letter requesting reconsideration of their belated summary announcement. One would figure that this missive will (in the context of THIS year's Festival, anyway) have as much impact as such missives typically do. I hesitate to speculate further...

I will add this, though- if the leadership of Bayreuth has concluded that it serves their interests to show the hand to the Wagner Societies of the world, then there surely exist other Opera Houses in this funding-strapped economy that might not be so dismissive. G. Bernard Shaw has plenty of interesting commentary on Wagner, and of course occasional bizarre commentary, as well. One of my favorite such statements is _"Wagnerism, like charity, begins at home."_ Definitely something to think about, as the leadership of Bayreuth decouples itself further and further from the concerns of its historic core audience.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

That is definitely shocking. Wagner Societies should get free tickets rather than be cut off from the Bayreuth Festival.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I will add this, though- if the leadership of Bayreuth has concluded that it serves their interests to show the hand to the Wagner Societies of the world, then there surely exist other Opera Houses in this funding-strapped economy that might not be so dismissive.


This is one of those "business decisions" that makes you wonder what on earth they were thinking. I hope other opera houses will see the opportunity you note and take advantage of it.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

The Wagner family ego overwhelmed their business sense. Or maybe they detected too many Jews in the Societies?


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

I think that's fair; fan clubs are comprised of ordinary people, they shouldn't have any privileges over other ordinary people.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Between this and her ****** productions, does Katharina Wagner really just hate the festival and seeks to destroy it?


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## jflatter (Mar 31, 2010)

Please see link below for Wagner societies response.

http://www.wagnerscotland.net/newsletter16_1.html

I am a member of the UK Wagner society and there is concern that it could have a massive impact on membership. Let's face it, a lot of people join to try and get a short cut to Bayreuth. However I will certainly remain a member whether or not there is a positive conclusion to this problem.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Crudblud said:


> I think that's fair; fan clubs are comprised of ordinary people, they shouldn't have any privileges over other ordinary people.


Well, yes, the Wagner Society members are ordinary people. But ordinary people who, over a long time period, have demonstrated an extraordinary level of commitment to the composer and his legacy, particularly where the Bayreuth Festival is concerned. I think management at many other festivals would be grateful to have "fans" of this character, especially in tough economic times. I still believe the decision by these two sisters to be unwise. And, no, I'm not a member of any Wagner Society or any other group that has been able to take advantage of special ticket "deals" for Bayreuth or any other major festival.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

*The shot across the bow...*

I'm going to tread upon the dangerous ground of the out-of-context quote... but before I cite it, I wish to _add_ the context that it's doubtless the wish of the Wagner Society of New York that the 'baby-out-with-bathwater' approach of Bayreuth be reconsidered.

However, if not, there is the following passage form the February 2012 issue of the WSNY's publication, "Wagner Notes:"


> We hope that we don't have to say "_Leb wohl_, Bayreuth." But keep in mind that there are many other opera festivals and opera houses in interesting locations around the world and in the U.S. that have high quality performances and productions. Stay tuned.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

Couchie said:


> Between this and her ****** productions, does Katharina Wagner really just hate the festival and seeks to destroy it?


As far as I know her cr**py management has already cost the Festival the support of Siemens and some other wealthy sponsors.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

Chi_townPhilly said:


> I'm going to tread upon the dangerous ground of the out-of-context quote... but before I cite it, I wish to _add_ the context that it's doubtless the wish of the Wagner Society of New York that the 'baby-out-with-bathwater' approach of Bayreuth be reconsidered.
> 
> However, if not, there is the following passage form the February 2012 issue of the WSNY's publication, "Wagner Notes:"


Very interesting material. In essence, the Festspiel management is blaming agencies of the Bavarian state government for the change in ticket distribution policy. If they wanted to achieve "transparency," they've succeeded; this is one of the most transparent cases of "CYA" I've come across in some time.


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## obwan (Oct 24, 2011)

I really don't get it. People spend their lives applying year after year hoping to get tickets. Now because of a court ruling the Bayreuth festivil will no longer be able to favor certain groups in allocating tickets, which I didn't even know they did anyhow. You people who claim not to be members of Wagnerian Societies should be grateful, that you will now have a greater liklihood of acquiring tickets, certainly not b****ing.


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## Lenfer (Aug 15, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> That is definitely shocking. Wagner Societies should get free tickets rather than be cut off from the Bayreuth Festival.


I don't mean to surprise anyone here but I'm not a huge fan of *Wagner* but even I agree with *CoAG* here. I also agree with *Chi* they've most likely wanted to do this for a long time and are using the current finical problems in the west as an excuse. When I go to the opera or a concert we normally have a box perhaps two depending how large our party is. The cost of these seats easily covers any subsidised tickets for such things.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

So, let's see. Paying money for membership or dues to a society which does nothing to further the economy of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus other than purchase tickets like any other individual or individuals is what, exactly?

It is baksheesh for a privilege for which there is no real need, as far as Bayreuth goes.... It has got to be more than naive (in fact something else entirely) to think that those seats do not have a waiting list far exceeding demand.

If Tickets for Bayreuth were sold as the Tickets for the Vienna New Years Eve concerts, not a one is going to be unsold. Application by date, and then a random lottery drawing.

Fair is fair. We are not talking about blocks of tickets to several musicals as part of a packet from some tour operator, a very different situation where the less than certain to be sold out houses are grateful for the bulk purchases, seats filled or not.

The flap seems to be more of one kind of noise from some groups with their noses out of joint for losing a purchased - and fictional - exclusivity. Now they will have to take their chances along with all the others who want to attend those performances, instead of being a member of a bloc factor which makes less than an equal chance for a non-group member to attend.

P.s. Thinking the Bayreuth Festival needs these Wagner Societies to sell out its house seems more than a little delusional. Sales will run unabated without the Wagner Societies and tour group organizers being the bloc ticket purchasers.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PetrB said:


> So, let's see. Paying money for membership or dues to a society which does nothing to further the economy of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus other than purchase tickets like any other individual or individuals is what, exactly?
> 
> It is baksheesh for a privilege for which there is no real need, as far as Bayreuth goes.... It has got to be more than naive (in fact something else entirely) to think that those seats do not have a waiting list far exceeding demand.
> 
> ...


You have no conception of Wagnerism. Go play with Mendelssohn in the meadow.


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## MAuer (Feb 6, 2011)

obwan said:


> You people who claim not to be members of Wagnerian Societies should be grateful, that you will now have a greater liklihood of acquiring tickets, certainly not b****ing.


You're assuming we'd want them . . . :lol:


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Couchie said:


> You have no conception of Wagnerism. Go play with Mendelssohn in the meadow.


Oh, I have a very solid estimate of those who think they are exclusive - and supported fictions. Wagner, the Festspielhaus, the productions, the audiences are all very real. The Exclusivity of 'only those who understand, appreciate, and love,' is just rampant delusional self-inflating snobbery.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

PetrB said:


> Oh, I have a very solid estimate of those who think they are exclusive - and supported fictions. Wagner, the Festspielhaus, the productions, the audiences are all very real. The Exclusivity of 'only those who understand, appreciate, and love,' is just rampant delusional self-inflating snobbery.


I agree with you that it should be more exclusive. People should have to write an exam, or hum a few bars from Tannhauser in order to order tickets.


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## Chi_townPhilly (Apr 21, 2007)

PetrB said:


> So, let's see.


Yup. Let's see on how many different grounds the subsequent argumentation fails...


PetrB said:


> Paying money for membership or dues to a society which does nothing to further the economy of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus other than purchase tickets like any other individual or individuals is what, exactly?


I guess the point that Wagner Societies have played a significant role in the fact that an "economy of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus" became an historical reality is (in some quarters) considered to be immaterial.


PetrB said:


> It is baksheesh for a privilege for which there is no real need, as far as Bayreuth goes.... It has got to be more than naive (in fact something else entirely) to think that those seats do not have a waiting list far exceeding demand.


Thanks for clearing up a misconception that I've seen no evidence of being asserted, except for its erection here as a straw-man.


PetrB said:


> The flap seems to be more of one kind of noise from some groups with their noses out of joint for losing a purchased - and fictional - exclusivity.


The distinction here isn't between non-fictional vs. fictional exclusivity-- the distinction is between extent and inextent exclusivity. I (for one) recognize that the leadership team at Bayreuth has the _right_ to modify their ticket policies. [Although it's less deft than the (literally) rodent-filled production of Lohengrin* to inform the Societies of the new policy over two months after its promulgation- and after Societies worldwide had put in their typical applications for tickets- along with some travel-plans made, requests for time off from work put into place, etc.]


PetrB said:


> P.s. Thinking the Bayreuth Festival needs these Wagner Societies to sell out its house seems more than a little delusional. Sales will run unabated without the Wagner Societies and tour group organizers being the bloc ticket purchasers.


To clarify (again), I _know_ that the Bayreuth leadership team has judged that they don't _need_ the Wagner Societies. The converse is also true- the Wagner Societies don't _need_ Bayreuth- particularly not with the way current administration and management is handling things. In spite of this lack of need, it would be nice to retain co-operation... or barring that, at least timely communication. _Der Meister_'s bicentennial is coming up next year. I expect that, especially over the next two opera seasons, there will be no shortage of Wagner performances on the boards of the world's major opera houses. I also believe that the potential exists for other opera companies to work more closely with the world's Wagner Societies.

No Wagnerian I know WANTS to turn his back on Bayreuth... but the truth is Bayreuth may have already turned their backs on _us_ (...or at least us "card-carrying" Wagnerians). I expect that we, collectively, won't assent to talking to their hand if we can have a meaningful face-to-face dialog elsewhere...

*That's right- the ensembles in the latest Bayreuth production of 'Lohengrin' don rat-costumes. _Seriously._ You can't make this (bleep) up...


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Couchie said:


> I agree with you that it should be more exclusive. People should have to write an exam, or hum a few bars from Tannhauser in order to order tickets.


Or perhaps wear a uniform?......


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Badinerie said:


> Or perhaps wear a uniform?......


Like this one?


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Yep, we men here in the North East of England like our women big and horny!


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