# Words I hate



## KenOC

There are certain words that make me cringe when reading about music. Here are two:

-- Magisterial, as in "a magisterial performance." Meaning: Slow to the point of morbidity.

-- Reference, as in "Of course, the reference recording of these works..." Meaning: I like them but you probably won't.

Your own disfavorites?


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## BurningDesire

I hate the words "lush" in almost any context, but especially when describing music, and "catchy".


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I also hate "lush"


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## Ramako

Here are a few words I hate which begin with "H".

heuristic
holistic
hegemonic
hermeneutics


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## Sid James

Some reviewers jargon I don't exactly hate but basically find a bit cliche for want of a better word.

Idiomatic

Unsurpassed

Underrated / Overrated

Using foreign words when English will do, eg. de rigeur, vis a vis (I use this one ocassionally!), ne plus ultra.

I'm sure I can think of more given the chance but that will do for now...


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## KRoad

Hermeneutics - yes, this is generally a conversation stopper and therefore one I try to casually drop into "learned" discussions at every opportunity in order de-rail the pretension. However, while using this tactic a few years ago, pronouncing that we are all "inextricably locked into a hermeneutic circle", a colleague retorted, with equal nonchalance, that it is not so much a circle, but rather a spiral...


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## aleazk

Ramako said:


> Here are a few words I hate which begin with "H".
> 
> heuristic
> holistic
> hegemonic
> hermeneutics


lol, totally agree, with the exception of heuristic.

---------------------------------

I hate the word "paradigm". People think they are well versed in epistemology just because they use, in a misleading way, that word.


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## Ramako

Actually apart from pretentious words (I like being pretentious, just not the words themselves :lol one that probably annoys me most is 'explore'. Not used in a Scott of the Antarctic sort of way that is.

It just seems like a total cop-out. "Beethoven explores the themes of...", "Tolstoy explores the human condition...", "X scholar explores some of the assumptions behind...", "Y explores what it means to be...". What does it actually mean? Does it impart any information? It just seems to me to be a filler.

Also, my new favourite word is: alcehmba.
Mathematicians might be able to figure out why ; )


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## Alydon

I hate 'benchmark recording.' It sounds like the recording was made on a bench or that everyone else might as well put away their instruments and never bother play that piece again. It is with some glee that I remember some eminent critics writing that phrase in regard to certain Joyce Hatto releases: they certainly were benchmark in terms of recording fraud.


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## Kieran

Journey. I like going on journeys but I detest the infantile suggestion that life is a journey, they're on their own journey, or even listening to music was like being taken on a journey.

A lot of modern jargon irritates me, especially when people prattle senselessly about energy...


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## science

I can't think of any words I hate. It's the way they're used that sometimes irritates me: with regard to music, especially when someone is transparently trying to disparage someone for liking certain music, or trying to elevate themselves because of the music they (claim to) like. Because I'm a cynical person much influenced by the basic ideas of evolutionary and cognitive psychology, I understand that we're probably always trying to gain status or recognition, but it doesn't have to be blatant. 

But who knows? Give me twenty more years and maybe I'll be a great snob!


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## Kieran

science said:


> Give me twenty more years and maybe I'll be a great snob!


It doesn't take twenty years. I'm a great snob and I managed it in seven!


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## science

Kieran said:


> It doesn't take twenty years. I'm a great snob and I managed it in seven!


Well, now I have a goal! I'll get back to you in 2020.


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## quack

This is like hating the E-flat.


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## Manxfeeder

quack said:


> This is like hating the E-flat.


Well, I hate the key of A, because it makes alto sax players have to play in F#. 

So far, this has been interesting. I'm learning what not to say around here.


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## GGluek

Actually, though not related to music, the word I most dislike is "hate," which when overused can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's too powerful a word to be used for minor annoyances. I can hate war or injustice or greed or pedophilia -- but not bad drivers or people who stand in the express checkout line with too many items. People who use it too often can become hateful people. (No offense, Ken -- a lot of people just use it lazily without thinking through the implications. )

george


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## Manxfeeder

One word I don't care much for reading about in music is "naked," like "In this passage, Beethoven is naked . . ." Say he's being honest or vulnerable. I don't want to picture Beethoven naked.


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## quack

That's a coincidence, I find this a magisterial thread, unsurpassed in opening up new paradigms of lush adjectives, full of exquisite mots justes.


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## GreenMamba

I think most of the words mentioned so far are actually quite good. Maybe you don't like music that is described as "magisterial" or "lush," but the words themselves are very descriptive. It would be boring if we didn't use words like these to describe musical performances.


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## rrudolph

I don't actually hate the usage of any particular words, but it always bugs me a little that the term "classical" is applied to art music of all periods rather than just to the classical period proper (yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of saying that on a forum named "Talk Classical"). However, I can accept that common usage is not necessarily going to conform to my opinion. Also, I'm not crazy about the misuse of the word "song": everything I put on my iPod is a song--even an hour long tone poem or a Cage aleatoric piece! Some of my younger students will show up for a lesson with an orchestral part which they call a song--this just happened when a student brought in the timpani part to the Tchaikovsky 4th. To him the whole symphony was a "song"!!


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## Nereffid

One of the least useful words I've found in criticism is "overrated". It means "I don't like it. Aren't I clever?"


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## moody

Ramako said:


> Actually apart from pretentious words (I like being pretentious, just not the words themselves :lol one that probably annoys me most is 'explore'. Not used in a Scott of the Antarctic sort of way that is.
> 
> It just seems like a total cop-out. "Beethoven explores the themes of...", "Tolstoy explores the human condition...", "X scholar explores some of the assumptions behind...", "Y explores what it means to be...". What does it actually mean? Does it impart any information? It just seems to me to be a filler.
> 
> Also, my new favourite word is: alcehmba.
> Mathematicians might be able to figure out why ; )


Are you making them up as you go ?


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## moody

Nereffid said:


> One of the least useful words I've found in criticism is "overrated". It means "I don't like it. Aren't I clever?"


Well you had better get used to it ,certain people love using it here on TC.


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## moody

rrudolph said:


> I don't actually hate the usage of any particular words, but it always bugs me a little that the term "classical" is applied to art music of all periods rather than just to the classical period proper (yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of saying that on a forum named "Talk Classical"). However, I can accept that common usage is not necessarily going to conform to my opinion. Also, I'm not crazy about the misuse of the word "song": everything I put on my iPod is a song--even an hour long tone poem or a Cage aleatoric piece! Some of my younger students will show up for a lesson with an orchestral part which they call a song--this just happened when a student brought in the timpani part to the Tchaikovsky 4th. To him the whole symphony was a "song"!!


I've noticed this and it's new---where has it come from for heaven's sake ?


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## Nereffid

> Well you had better get used to it ,certain people love here on TC.


Oh yes, I had noticed!


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## KenOC

GGluek said:


> Actually, though not related to music, the word I most dislike is "hate," which when overused can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's too powerful a word to be used for minor annoyances. I can hate war or injustice or greed or pedophilia -- but not bad drivers or people who stand in the express checkout line with too many items. People who use it too often can become hateful people. (No offense, Ken -- a lot of people just use it lazily without thinking through the implications. )
> 
> george


"It is one's duty to hate with all possible fervor the empty and ugly in art; and I hate Saint-Saëns the composer with a hate that is perfect." -- J. F. Runciman, 1896


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## deggial

Saint-Saëns empty and ugly?!


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## echmain

GGluek said:


> Actually, though not related to music, the word I most dislike is "hate,"


I disagree. I love hate.


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## Sid James

Alydon said:


> I hate 'benchmark recording.' It sounds like the recording was made on a bench or that everyone else might as well put away their instruments and never bother play that piece again. It is with some glee that I remember some eminent critics writing that phrase in regard to certain Joyce Hatto releases: they certainly were benchmark in terms of recording fraud.





Kieran said:


> Journey. I like going on journeys but I detest the infantile suggestion that life is a journey, they're on their own journey, or even listening to music was like being taken on a journey.


Guilty as charged! I have sometimes used the words benchmark and journey, sometimes on this site.



> ...
> A lot of modern jargon irritates me, especially when people prattle senselessly about energy...


I don't like jargon but worst of all are weasel words. Used by politicians but its been creeping into music, esp. since 1945. I mean saying something in a way that makes it sound better than if you said it straight. In terms of politics, things like "ethnic cleansing" is one of the worst ones. Basically its a nice way of saying death, or genocide. In terms of music, we got a lot of culprits there, flushing composers or other musicians who they don't like down the toilet but not having the guts to do it in a direct way. But its not new. Formalism and Degenerate Art, applied by the Stalinist and Nazi regimes respectively, both meant the same thing - composers (or other creative artists) we don't like. All the other stuff - politics, ethnicity, style - was secondary to the arbitrary and often inconsistent nature of their oppressive ways. Eg. ban Mahler and Mendelssohn for being Jewish but not the Strauss waltz dynasty, whose origins where also Jewish.

So yeah weasel words are...dog poo. Or a dishonest way of using language, to put it more nicely.

But science put it well in this post. Basically if you want to insult someone, have the decency and guts to do it directly, so they can know what you're basically saying and then maybe make a case to defend themselves. Talking about music or any other artform can be very subjective, so making it a Stalinist show trial just doesn't make sense. I got some memories of that on this forum but it seems those days are now just a bad memory, thank goodness.



science said:


> I can't think of any words I hate. It's the way they're used that sometimes irritates me: with regard to music, especially when someone is transparently trying to disparage someone for liking certain music, or trying to elevate themselves because of the music they (claim to) like. Because I'm a cynical person much influenced by the basic ideas of evolutionary and cognitive psychology, I understand that we're probably always trying to gain status or recognition, but it doesn't have to be blatant.
> 
> But who knows? Give me twenty more years and maybe I'll be a great snob!


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## Weston

I dislike pretense, but I'm probably as guilty of it as the next. If you think there are pretentious terms in music, try reading an artist's statement at a gallery opening. The stench of fake plastic is nearly unbearable.

One thing I find annoying in both art and music circles is the habit of belittling a common term that may not be quite spot on with academia, but the rest of the world understands perfectly what is meant. Academia understands the terms too, they just prefer to be pedantic, humorless and victimized. Getting pounced on for using the term "atonal" is rampant in these forums. Look folks. Everyone knows what that means _by consensus_. Like it or not, that is how the English language works and evolves, and linguistic scholars will back me up on this. So get your academic heads out of your own anatomical parts, or stay among yourselves and play solitaire. Use the language as you see fit, but do not ridicule the way the rest of the world uses it. It is a losing battle and will win you zero respect.


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## Ramako

I agree Weston!

A phrase which can get on my wick sometimes is 'ideologically charged' (two words - is that cheating?). Usually the fact is self-evident, and the phrase is in fact an ideologically charged statement itself being disparaging in a kind of meaningless way.


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## Sid James

Re what you're saying Weston, Schoenberg didn't like the term atonal, he preferred pantonal. Then there's Debussy not liking people labeling his style Impressionist. Then there's Philip Glass, I think I read an interview where he said he didn't like the term Minimalism. I suppose there's validity in that one can't boil down everything these guys did in one technique or style. I mean Schoenberg's output for example moved from tonal through atonal to serial, with brief forays into other things like expressionism. Labels have their limitations but I agree its going to an extreme if things get bogged down in debates focused on 'pedantic semantics' as I like to call it. I mean let's be reasonable here.


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## KenOC

echmain said:


> I disagree. I love hate.


I hate hate. I hate the word "hate." And I hate people who hate! Oh, wait a minute...


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## science

I did it! I thought of a word that I don't particularly like: "way" and "ways," used like, "in a way," or "in some ways," or, "in many ways," or "there is a way in which." 

Mea culpa: I do it all the time. 

Nevertheless, I often want to grab the guy by the collar and ask, "Which way(s) in particular do you mean? Specific is terrific! You dirty insinuating...."


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## ptr

I don't hate any words, on the contrary, I love all words, I try to nurture them all as if they were all my own children! 

/ptr


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## Weston

According to poet Carl Sandburg, "exclusive" is the ugliest word in the English language. Makes sense if you take meaning alone into account.


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## Sid James

Weston said:


> According to poet Carl Sandburg, "exclusive" is the ugliest word in the English language. Makes sense if you take meaning alone into account.


Well maybe it is the ugliest word, if you use exclusivity as a tool to exclude others, that is. Oh dear getting a bit too semantic, I better stop!


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## Novelette

For me, the most annoying habit is overuse of the word "had", that is to say, the past perfect tense.

We read it all the time:

"Yesterday, Jim had told Jill that he had gone to the same restaurant in Paris to which they had gone on their honeymoon."

The word "perfect", in "past perfect", means that the task was already completed by the referenced time.

"Last evening at five, Steve had begun his homework."

That means that Steve began his homework _before_ five last evening.

In order to say that Steve began his homework _at exactly or approximately_ five last evening, you would say:

"Last evening at five, Steve began his homework."

"He went" is not equivalent to "He had gone". They mean different things, but they are thrown around as though they are equivalent, indeed, the latter is even preferred. But it is usually incorrect.

Out of 100 usages of the past perfect, I suspect that only 3 are meant to mean what the words in fact mean, 97 are simply mistakes.

Specific words are fine with me, but misuse the of past perfect tense is my greatest pet peeve.

:tiphat:


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## Weston

Well, at one time I had had a spouse who often had said "had went!" The significance here is past tense, perfect or otherwise.


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## Tristan

"Hermeneutics" reminds me of the Sokal hoax. The title of his article purposefully filled with nonsense that was published anyway was entitled "Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity".


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## BurningDesire

Weston said:


> I dislike pretense, but I'm probably as guilty of it as the next. If you think there are pretentious terms in music, try reading an artist's statement at a gallery opening. The stench of fake plastic is nearly unbearable.
> 
> One thing I find annoying in both art and music circles is the habit of belittling a common term that may not be quite spot on with academia, but the rest of the world understands perfectly what is meant. Academia understands the terms too, they just prefer to be pedantic, humorless and victimized. Getting pounced on for using the term "atonal" is rampant in these forums. Look folks. Everyone knows what that means _by consensus_. Like it or not, that is how the English language works and evolves, and linguistic scholars will back me up on this. So get your academic heads out of your own anatomical parts, or stay among yourselves and play solitaire. Use the language as you see fit, but do not ridicule the way the rest of the world uses it. It is a losing battle and will win you zero respect.


If you use language incorrectly, and somebody who knows better is kind enough to try and correct you, you shouldn't chastise them for having the courtesy of trying to enlighten you o3o

Alot of people use the word atonal incorrectly. It has a pretty specific meaning. If people just use it for whatever (or simply use it as an insult, which is often the case), with no regards for what it actually means, then why the hell even have that word to begin with. It becomes meaningless. Atonal isn't even the best word to use, but its just a technical thing and shouldn't be used like some cheap insult.


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## Crudblud

In English I have a rich language at my disposal, and I will use it.


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## science

Crudblud said:


> In English I have a rich language at my disposal, and I will use it.


You mean you will use your disposal, right?

Well, I hope the language gets through your disposal relatively unscathed.

Edit: BTW, I intend this purely as a silly joke. After seeing it posted I realized that you might feel I intended to correct or mock you or something, and I have no such intentions! Just being punny.


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## Crudblud

Weston said:


> So get your academic heads out of your own anatomical parts


What, _all_ of them? Good God, man, be reasonable!



science said:


> You mean you will use your disposal, right?
> 
> Well, I hope the language gets through your disposal relatively unscathed.
> 
> Edit: BTW, I intend this purely as a silly joke. After seeing it posted I realized that you might feel I intended to correct or mock you or something, and I have no such intentions! Just being punny.


I have almost disposed of it.

I have now disposed of it.

*ahem*

...

Ng teTclán kslšn señõþò, gurnsn kdé efn Æspleriskaëan. Sødiµ!


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## Taggart

This is getting a bit like Lewis Carroll

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."


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## moody

Crudblud said:


> In English I have a rich language at my disposal, and I will use it.


Yes,but most don't or don't know how--including me sometimes.


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## science

Let me add "swarthy." I won't say I hate it, but I find it suspicious.


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## TinyTim

_Arguably_ and other baggy pants words. For example, _Arguably her best recording in the past fifteen years_


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

The word Mozart


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## KenOC

Wanna have some fun? "Structural clarity." Google "Boulez structural clarity" and find out just how incestuous the critical fraternity is.

PS -- Credit to John Adams for pointing this out.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Cool will give it a go


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

So your an instant critic if you say "Structural clarity": how about "structural ambiguity Boulez"? 


brilliant satire of music critics

I fell off the chair when I read this post.

Here is an excerpt;


I’m thinking this is ridiculous. Marcel can’t even read music and the only cd’s I seen in his trailer were by some Goth bands like Alien Sex Fiend and Inkubus Sukkubus, which I saw next to his lava lamp. I think he’s just pulling my chain, so I figure I’ll just ask him a few questions and see how far he can bluff.

“So Marcel, how was the Carter?” I calmly inquire.

“Bracing.”

“Yeah…and??”

“Bracing, thorny, a contrapuntal thicket, but intellectually satisfying. Carter, as you know, John, has mellowed since passing the C-mark. I like the new piece,“…come il cacio sui maccheroni,” for three percussionists —stands up quite well on repeated hearings.”

“You’re ******** me, Marcel,” I say. He just stares at me with a look of distaste at my bad manners.

“So, OK. Marcel, I am sure that a week ago, before you went all hoity-toity on us, you never even heard of Pierre Boulez. So how you gonna write about something as complicated as that?”

“Structural clarity. It’s a breeze to write about Boulez. You just say “structural clarity” and you’re home free. Doesn’t matter if you’re reviewing his conducting Mahler or “Pli selon Pli.” It’s all about structural clarity, John.”

“And Kurtàg?”

“Mad Hungarian, of course, like all of them, but a mind of richly fertile imagination. Fiendish miniaturist. The universe in a nutshell.”

“Birtwistle?”

“Doesn’t coddle the listener. Every new piece a welcome musical colonic.”

“So, Marcel, if you’re gonna write regularly you have to be open to other stuff too. What will you write if it’s a concert of Minimalist music?”

“Minimalism? Check your brain at the door.”

“And what if the singers are miked?”

“Amplification? End of the world as we know it.”

“Haitink’s Bruckner?”

“Magisterial.”

“The Vienna Philharmonic?”

“Plush strings, burnished brass, mellow winds. Gender issues.”

“How about that new opera that just premiered last week?”

“Formally flawed, but promises better things to come.”

“Gilbert versus Dudamel?”

“Easy. East Coast probity versus Hollywood glitz. But of course you preface your remarks by saying that you’re only reporting that the others are writing about it. You yourself would never stoop so low as to make odious comparisons.”


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## KenOC

Adams's blog is full of this stuff. Look for that contemporary music boon, the audience ejection system...


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## Feathers

The word "song" when it's not a song.


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## BurningDesire

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The word Mozart


Another failing of this forum's word filter.


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## Arsakes

EddieRUKiddingVarese said:


> The word Mozart


My counterattack:
The word ...
Schoenberg


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## Kieran

Novelette said:


> For me, the most annoying habit is overuse of the word "had", that is to say, the past perfect tense.


I had had enough of the word _had_ too, I had.

And then I hadn't...


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## Mahlerian

Arsakes said:


> My counterattack:
> The word ...
> Schoenberg


"Anyone who looks at my writing for string quartet cannot deny that I have learned a lot from Mozart."
- Arnold Schoenberg


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## Guest

the word "hate"


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## Ingélou

I cringe when someone says that something is 'meaningful' or 'significant'; what they really mean is, 'I am a very profound person'.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I hate the word "tonicisation"


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Arsakes said:


> My counterattack:
> The word ...
> Schoenberg


Do you like counterpoint.................


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I hate Schenkerian analysis.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

Funny you should mention such analysis - I'm just about to do a Watson Glaser Critical Thinking Test and a Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices test !!! which not overly keen on but even less so when it came with the advice below......
"you are being asked to complete it because many of the questions in the alternative CPI are culturally specific to American candidates"

So as a Aussie - I might be in trouble here, even without the craziness issue lol

In Summary, I hate the word* test *- especially today, in fact any day........


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Funny you should mention "test........."

I was meant to have a maths test at school today, but due to an unfortunately timed and unavoidable sickness that has come over me today (specifically this morning, during the time of the test) I have been unable to go to school and I have to sit the test _next_ week.


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## Novelette

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Funny you should mention "test........."
> 
> I was meant to have a maths test at school today, but due to an unfortunately timed and unavoidable sickness that has come over me today (specifically this morning, during the time of the test) I have been unable to go to school and I have to sit the test _next_ week.


Math is my occupation; what kinds of problems does your test include?

Also, I hope you feel better soon!


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## aleazk

^^lol, for some reason I suspect he's quite recovered by now...


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## Novelette

aleazk said:


> ^^lol, for some reason I suspect he's quite recovered by now...


LOL! Agreed.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Novelette said:


> Math is my occupation; what kinds of problems does your test include?
> 
> Also, I hope you feel better soon!


Well...I don't know exactly what...I just know that non-monic trinomials are not in the test, I found that out _after_ I became an expert on them hoping to get 100% on the test.


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## EddieRUKiddingVarese

LOL it's called mathematic flu. Once the calculations (the Virus), are over the Flu and symptoms dissipates quite quickly!


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## KenOC

Two that I hate hate hate! People keep saying "jived" (for agree with) when they mean "jibed." Or "peaked" (as in curiosity) when they mean "piqued."


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## PetrB

moody said:


> I've noticed this and it's new---where has it come from for heaven's sake ?


You can thank iPod for going with "Song" as used by the majority unfamiliar with classical, and young children with no training in classical.

Youtube click-links to iTunes read, "Buy this song," whether it is a Brahms symphonic work or a song by Linkin Park 

Some languages use their word for "Song" to describe any type of piece in any genre, regardless of whether it is a vocal piece or not.


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## PetrB

Taggart said:


> This is getting a bit like Lewis Carroll
> 
> "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean-neither more nor less."


Endemic on classical fora, "To me, Romantic is...." 
It is Babel, & Lol.


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## Musician

divertimento.............


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## Guest

What's up with the word "jejune"? Isn't that just the most gratuitous and pretentious word ever? Does anyone know what it means without looking? I doubt it. How do you even pronounce it? 

I took my scissors and I cut that word out of my dictionary. Guess what word was on the backside!


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## Art Rock

"Great" and even worse "greatest". Of course used in numerous topics without defining what the topic starter means by it.


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## moody

PetrB said:


> You can thank iPod for going with "Song" as used by the majority unfamiliar with classical, and young children with no training in classical.
> 
> Youtube click-links to iTunes read, "Buy this song," whether it is a Brahms symphonic work or a song by Linkin Park
> 
> Some languages use their word for "Song" to describe any type of piece in any genre, regardless of whether it is a vocal piece or not.


Ignorance is bliss I suppose. That's an annoying saying as well even if it is not a word as such.


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## moody

BPS said:


> What's up with the word "jejune"? Isn't that just the most gratuitous and pretentious word ever? Does anyone know what it means without looking? I doubt it. How do you even pronounce it?
> 
> I took my scissors and I cut that word out of my dictionary. Guess what word was on the backside!


I just looked it up and I would think not many people know that !!
Michael Caine might also comment on the annoying habit some have of using obscure words especially in a foreign language---when all it means is naïve.


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## PetrB

The current trendy usage of hate, and haters, (& "no haters,") is probably at the top of my list (if I kept a list) at the moment.

One of the most extreme of emotions, one has to usually first love deeply before one can hate.

It is yet another good word, now being watered down to next to nothing, slipping down the linguistic drain.


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## KenOC

"magisterial"..."definitive"...urp...


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## Garlic

"Cerebral", "intellectual" or "academic" when used with an implied negative connotation.

Not necessarily a bad word but "ravishing" is rather overused in classical music. Ditto "angular", "thorny" or "spiky" for avant-garde music.

I also hate "tuneless" as a criticism. Tells us absolutely nothing about the music itself.


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## Tristan

I hate the word "vapid". It's not really the word's fault, but I hear it used almost exclusively as a synonym for "vacuous", which it is not.


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## PetrB

science said:


> Well, now I have a goal! I'll get back to you in 2020.


If you're a quick study, you will probably graduate early


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## PetrB

Through TC, I have come to cringe whenever I read the words melody, melodious, harmony, so often used in a particular critical context. They are just nouns, and nuts 'n' bolts musical elements, not rules, laws or ultimate guides to what is or is not good music.


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## TresPicos

I don't know if being a non-native English speaker makes me less or more "sensitive" when it comes to English words, but it clearly makes me more sensitive when it comes to idioms and expressions. While I will happily accept the strangest Swedish expressions because "that's just how you say it", I try to make sense of the English expressions instead of just accepting them.

For example, I always cringe at the construction "all but", because it doesn't make sense to me. Every time I read something like "it had _all but_ disappeared", I have to stop and think. So, it hadn't disappeared? Or it had? I have learned by now that it means "almost", but I still cringe when I come across it.

In movies, I'm always stumped by the following: 
- You don't wanna go there. 
- _The hell_ I don't!
So... he doesn't want to go there? Or he does? Hmm... Okay, the second person sounds angry, so he probably doesn't agree with the first person, and since the first person said "you don't", the second person says "he does". Got it! Oh darn, I missed the rest of the conversation...


----------



## TresPicos

........................................................


----------



## Vesteralen

I read this thread.

I have now made up my mind to use just words with one syllable

("syllable", of course is not one of them)


----------



## PetrB

moody said:


> I just looked it up and I would think not many people know that !!
> Michael Caine might also comment on the annoying habit some have of using obscure words especially in a foreign language---when all it means is naïve.


LOL -- "naive" is yet another French word, coming to us by way of Latin

Latin: Nativus / Fr. naïf: naïve

So what's one more French word peppered in the English language? 

Their are, or were, far more straight from the French words and phrases in general usage in British English than in American English. (Normans take over, use their language... when writing those early documents, terms were put in both Saxon and French, to be certain all knew what was what. "Cease and Desist" and all those sorts of phrases which use two words for the same idea are from that time.)

There is also a point where the user is just having fun, and a line over which they are being pretentious, or are actually socially isolated in a class ghetto and need to get out more.

If such usage is really not too much, I am going to whine instead about those damned foreign words, about those who just can't be bothered to look it up, or who complain about very well in place foreign terms or phrases in their own language as being "furren," that is an inverse jingoistic snobbery just as unattractive as someone who uses those terms to be certain that others feel less educated.

The one anglicized French term which still truly gives me a little mental hiccup, is "Chaise Lounge."
The French: Chaise longue, literally translates as "Long chair." 

I had to look up the meaning of "nous" as often enough used by Brits -- at least as I've found in literature -- and it did not kill me to look it up.


----------



## HaydnBearstheClock

Every word will have his dog.


----------



## PetrB

TresPicos said:


> I don't know if being a non-native English speaker makes me less or more "sensitive" when it comes to English words, but it clearly makes me more sensitive when it comes to idioms and expressions. While I will happily accept the strangest Swedish expressions because "that's just how you say it", I try to make sense of the English expressions instead of just accepting them.
> 
> For example, I always cringe at the construction "all but", because it doesn't make sense to me. Every time I read something like "it had _all but_ disappeared", I have to stop and think. So, it hadn't disappeared? Or it had? I have learned by now that it means "almost", but I still cringe when I come across it.
> 
> In movies, I'm always stumped by the following:
> - You don't wanna go there.
> - _The hell_ I don't!
> So... he doesn't want to go there? Or he does? Hmm... Okay, the second person sounds angry, so he probably doesn't agree with the first person, and since the first person said "you don't", the second person says "he does". Got it! Oh darn, I missed the rest of the conversation...


I bet you love the phrase, "not withstanding."

I hear that it is in common use on parking sign advisories in Scotland, and that many a Brit or other English - speaking tourist is confounded as to its meaning.

"No parking not withstanding the hours of 2 - 4 p.m. -- (read "no parking except between 2 - 4 p.m.)

Whacky Whacky English, ******* child of Latin, Saxon (with a little Frisian thrown in?), Norman French, German, etc. No wonder it has so many words, inconsistency of spellings, and a highly flexible syntax.


----------



## PetrB

Vesteralen said:


> I read this thread.
> 
> I have now made up my mind to use just words with one syllable.


Practicing for that extra edge in the Scrabble Championship playoffs?


----------



## PetrB

moody said:


> Ignorance is bliss I suppose. That's an annoying saying as well even if it is not a word as such.


Betcha wished you'd never known


----------



## TresPicos

I really detest "management-speak". I don't want to hear about action items or road maps or core values or low-hanging fruit, and I don't care about the difference between strategy and tactics. 

At a meeting at work not long ago, I myself used - to my subsequent horror - the word "challenge" instead of "problem". I gasped for air and just wanted to cry. 

Since then, I have decided to try to collect such words for fun instead of just cringing at them. Perhaps such a project is not sustainable over time, but if so I will just sunset it.


----------



## Mahlerian

The word "technology", as used in advertising.

"No-fail technology"
"Clean-grip technology"
"Sure-analysis technology"
"Sprechstimme-powered technology"
"HIP-authenticity technology"

It doesn't mean anything, people!


----------



## Vesteralen

Keep at it, all.

I swear that we will be down to one syllable words soon!


----------



## ptr

PetrB said:


> Whacky Whacky English, ******* child of Latin, Saxon (with a little Frisian thrown in?), Norman French, German, etc. No wonder it has so many words, inconsistency of spellings, and a highly flexible syntax.


Yea, I think we have to abandon English as the language for this site and make it mandatory por ĉiuj siaj uzantoj por lerni esperanton por la malplej malstabilan membro interkomunikado!

Så det så! BTW, I love that Whacky Whicky English! 

/ptr


----------



## Guest

"New and improved".
"Challenge".
"Solution".
"Cost-effective".
"Guaranteed".
"Economy pack".


----------



## KenOC

TresPicos said:


> At a meeting at work not long ago, I myself used - to my subsequent horror - the word "challenge" instead of "problem". I gasped for air and just wanted to cry.


You were evidently still a management-speak tyro. An expert management-speaker knows that reference to either "problem" or "challenge" is the sign of a defeatist weakling. The correct term is "opportunity." I'm not making this up! :cheers:


----------



## Blancrocher

"hate," "abhor," "dislike," "detest," and "disgust." 

It's hard for me to even express my aversion! 

Oh--and "aversion."


----------



## Vesteralen

What a journey this thread has been! We've gotten to explore all the benchmarks of naked exclusivity vis a vis catchy, idiomatic and magisterial expression. I now have a more holistic view of the lush verbiage of Talk Classical!


----------



## Ingélou

Blancrocher said:


> "hate," "abhor," "dislike," "detest," and "disgust."
> 
> It's hard for me to even express my aversion!
> 
> Oh--and "aversion."


You're not partial to terms of unliking? You loathe the jargon of odium? 

I think you'd be better with the simpler terms: petits pois are still peas!


----------



## moody

PetrB said:


> LOL -- "naive" is yet another French word, coming to us by way of Latin
> 
> Latin: Nativus / Fr. naïf: naïve
> 
> So what's one more French word peppered in the English language?
> 
> Their are, or were, far more straight from the French words and phrases in general usage in British English than in American English. (Normans take over, use their language... when writing those early documents, terms were put in both Saxon and French, to be certain all knew what was what. "Cease and Desist" and all those sorts of phrases which use two words for the same idea are from that time.)
> 
> There is also a point where the user is just having fun, and a line over which they are being pretentious, or are actually socially isolated in a class ghetto and need to get out more.
> 
> If such usage is really not too much, I am going to whine instead about those damned foreign words, about those who just can't be bothered to look it up, or who complain about very well in place foreign terms or phrases in their own language as being "furren," that is an inverse jingoistic snobbery just as unattractive as someone who uses those terms to be certain that others feel less educated.
> 
> The one anglicized French term which still truly gives me a little mental hiccup, is "Chaise Lounge."
> The French: Chaise longue, literally translates as "Long chair."
> 
> I had to look up the meaning of "nous" as often enough used by Brits -- at least as I've found in literature -- and it did not kill me to look it up.


And I thought I was being clever/funny but you seem to have skated over it.
Chaise lounge must be an Americanism ,I've not heard it used here.
But I've noticed that your lot like to use the French style more than we do--Herbs pronounced 'erbs and fillet steak pronounced French style ,which is peculiar as the word steak is certainly not French.


----------



## Ukko

moody said:


> And I thought I was being clever/funny but you seem to have skated over it.
> Chaise lounge must be an Americanism ,I've not heard it used here.
> But I've noticed that your lot like to use the French style more than we do--Herbs pronounced 'erbs and fillet steak pronounced French style ,which is peculiar as the word steak is certainly not French.


In the southern Appalachians 'herbs' may be pronounced 'yarbs'. There is no such thing as 'fillet steak'. The cuts are diametrically opposed, although in Mexico 'bifstek' is a fillet unless you're in an Argentinian eatery.


----------



## niv

"pretentious", "self-indulgence"

Not that there is anything wrong with the words themselves... but more often than not, they're directed to anything somewhat ambitious that the critic either does not understand or does not follow his or her unique tastes in simplicity.


----------



## niv

KenOC said:


> Wanna have some fun? "Structural clarity." Google "Boulez structural clarity" and find out just how incestuous the critical fraternity is.
> 
> PS -- Credit to John Adams for pointing this out.


everyone should read this http://www.earbox.com/posts/40


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> In the southern Appalachians 'herbs' may be pronounced 'yarbs'. There is no such thing as 'fillet steak'. The cuts are diametrically opposed, although in Mexico 'bifstek' is a fillet unless you're in an Argentinian eatery.


I wouldn't know that as I'm not a butcher,perhaps you should tell all the restaurateurs---I'm not keen on steak in any case ,give me lamb.


----------



## Guest

Hilltroll72 said:


> In the southern Appalachians 'herbs' may be pronounced 'yarbs'. There is no such thing as 'fillet steak'. The cuts are diametrically opposed, although in Mexico 'bifstek' is a fillet unless you're in an Argentinian eatery.


Interesting. In Alsace _rosbif_ isn't what you might think it is. I got caught out, was mildly outraged, and am now a convert.
Giddy-up!


----------



## Vaneyes

PetrB said:


> The current trendy usage of hate, and haters, (& "no haters,") is probably at the top of my list (if I kept a list) at the moment.
> 
> One of the most extreme of emotions, one has to usually first love deeply before one can hate.
> 
> It is yet another good word, now being watered down to next to nothing, slipping down the linguistic drain.


Thank you for *reaching out*.


----------



## PetrB

Vaneyes said:


> Thank you for *reaching out*.


Yes,_ I shared,_ and it was wonderful.


----------



## Vaneyes

moody said:


> I wouldn't know that as I'm not a butcher,perhaps you should tell all the restaurateurs---I'm not keen on steak in any case ,give me lamb.


And re The South, chip steaks provide yet more dilemma. Accidently discovered in California, they were soon adopted as haute cuisine by the aforementioned.


----------



## Ukko

moody said:


> I wouldn't know that as I'm not a butcher,perhaps you should tell all the restaurateurs---I'm not keen on steak in any case ,give me lamb.


Butcher's school not required. For red meat anyway, a fillet is cut with the grain, steak across the grain. Deer hunters who have to ration ammo can't afford to pay a butcher.


----------



## mstar

I personally dislike the use of the word "*genius*" when describing people, especially composers. No, I don't want some large discussion on the theoretical and legitimate definition of "genius," but I feel that the word is simply overdoing it. 

I also tend to avoid the word "*catchy*" when speaking of classical music. Pop can be catchy, but classical music is something else entirely.

How about "*unsurpassable*?" Is there really an unsurpassable work? Not everyone would agree, so therefore, no. Anyway, "unsurpassable" is simply a matter of opinion. 

The word "*melodic*" just sounds really _odd_, especially when describing a melody.... It's really redundant in that case it is redundant, if you know what I mean it is redundant.  Have you ever heard of the department of redundancy department? A favorite quote of an old classmate of mine.

Anyway, let's not be redundant.... Not all terms are favorable at all times. Let's not be redundant. (Oh, it's so fun!)

*Can music be redundant?*


----------



## Ukko

*Can music be redundant?*

A repeat that is just like the original...


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Butcher's school not required. For red meat anyway, a fillet is cut with the grain, steak across the grain. Deer hunters who have to ration ammo can't afford to pay a butcher.


What has this got to do with pretentious French-style pronunciation .
If you've never seen fillet steak on menus where have you been ?


----------



## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> *Can music be redundant?*
> 
> A repeat that is just like the original...


No! Wait! We're being redundant _while being redundant!_ No! It's inevitable and unavoidable!!

You said that a repeat is just like the original, but I said can music be redundant, and your answer is just that, and your answer was that you said that a repeat just like the original is redundant music, but I was asking about redundancy! 

Tchough Tchaikovsky is Tchertainly Tchrepetitive...... (I misspelled the first word, then decided that I like the "prefix" on other words as well, because I had misspelled the first word, but I liked how it looked and sounded, so I ended up liking the "prefix.") Oh, by the way, often repetitively Tchaikovsky is often repetitive in his often repetitive works that are often repetitive.

It's so fun being redundant and repetitive, I'm having quite a bit of trouble stopping being redundant and repetitive. 

To ease the painful suffering of the pain of redundant redundancy with something hopefully not quite as redundant as I am being right now, myself writing with extreme redundancy....


----------



## Ukko

moody said:


> What has this got to do with pretentious French-style pronunciation .
> If you've never seen fillet steak on menus where have you been ?


During my stay in England I ate in pubs. ******* they had, no steaks. Haven't seen that wording anywhere I've been, though if the menu had 'fillet steak' in a furrin language I wouldn't know it.

That word fillet, pronounced any way you like, didn't show up in my neck of the woods when I was young. I think the flatlanders imported it after the Interstate made it easy for them to invade.


----------



## mstar

Fillet.... I always thought it was pronounced (fi-lā').


----------



## Ukko

mstar said:


> Fillet.... I always thought it was pronounced (fi-lā').


Sure and that's what _moody_ calls 'French-style'.


----------



## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> Sure and that's what _moody_ calls 'French-style'.


To be honest, I cannot pronounce in French.... Though it is unsure whether my great-grandparents had Russian blood. Coolio! I want to be distantly related to Rachmaninov....


----------



## moody

mstar said:


> Fillet.... I always thought it was pronounced (fi-lā').


Exactly but not in UK ,it's pronounced as if it was fillet a fish. French style "fee-ay" sounds dumb unless you are French.
But not to worry as Hilltroll says they don't exist.


----------



## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> During my stay in England I ate in pubs. ******* they had, no steaks. Haven't seen that wording anywhere I've been, though if the menu had 'fillet steak' in a furrin language I wouldn't know it.
> 
> That word fillet, pronounced any way you like, didn't show up in my neck of the woods when I was young. I think the flatlanders imported it after the Interstate made it easy for them to invade.


What date were you there 1850 ?
Every pub has steaks now but *******---not really.


----------



## peeyaj

Rape. I hate the word "rapist". And "orgasm" too.

_The point of recapitulation in the first movement of the Ninth is one of the most horrifying moments in music, as the carefully prepared cadence is frustrated, damming up energy which finally explodes in the throttling murderous rage of a rapist incapable of attaining release.
_
- Susan McClary

"OMG! I have just orgasmed listening to Mozart's".

-random internet dude


----------



## mstar

^^^^ SHE (McClary) was the one who said Schumann... Schumann's.... WAIT, NO! I'm trying not to laugh! At the absurdity! His.... His parallel.... Thirds..... Were.... I can't stop laughing. I really can't right now!!! Aaahhh!! Were...

Forget it! If you remember what _she_ said about them, well, I don't believe it for a moment, either. :lol:

Well.... WHAT ABOUT CLARA?!?! :lol: :lol: Oh, I can't even.... Comprehend her thinking....


----------



## Guest

How about idiomatic? Any haters?


----------



## apricissimus

peeyaj said:


> _The point of recapitulation in the first movement of the Ninth is one of the most horrifying moments in music, as the carefully prepared cadence is frustrated, damming up energy which finally explodes in the throttling murderous rage of a rapist incapable of attaining release.
> _
> - Susan McClary


What a bizarre analogy.


----------



## apricissimus

I hate the word "musical" as in, "Pianist A was technically proficient, but Pianist B was more _musical_".

I'm not sure it actually means anything, except maybe just "I liked Pianist B more."


----------



## mstar

apricissimus said:


> I hate the word "musical" as in, "Pianist A was technically proficient, but Pianist B was more _musical_".
> 
> I'm not sure it actually means anything, except maybe just "I liked Pianist B more."


Musical, more musical.... Most musical.... Imagine having that third title. Even so, it virtually would mean nothing (just as the word virtually means nothing)....


----------



## Vesteralen

I thought about starting a "Threads I Hate" thread in honor of this thread.

Seriously, all we're doing here is creating a Verboten list that is going to make it much more difficult for people to express themselves on this forum.

Sure, words can be used without thinking them through enough, but people do sometimes use a little verbal shorthand to make a quick point or two and I see nothing wrong with that. A lot of these Verboten words are perfectly legitimate, but all it takes is one person to find a word objectionable and all of a sudden no one is going to want to use that word again.

I, for one, think that this only will *constipate* discussion on this board.

There's another word you can ban.......


----------



## TresPicos

Vesteralen said:


> Seriously, all we're doing here is creating a Verboten list that is going to make it much more difficult for people to express themselves on this forum.
> 
> Sure, words can be used without thinking them through enough, but people do sometimes use a little verbal shorthand to make a quick point or two and I see nothing wrong with that. A lot of these Verboten words are perfectly legitimate, but all it takes is one person to find a word objectionable and all of a sudden no one is going to want to use that word again.


For that to happen, people would need to first read this entire thread, then remember the words, and finally be conscientious or overanxious enough to refrain from using them. That doesn't sound like the Internet I know...

I bet no one will - one year from now - be on the verge of using an item of business jargon in a post, and then suddenly gasp and think "Yikes, I almost wrote 'low-hanging fruit'! TresPicos would have been furious! Thank goodness I caught myself in time!"


----------



## Vesteralen

TresPicos said:


> I bet no one will - one year from now - be on the verge of using an item of business jargon in a post, and then suddenly gasp and think "Yikes, I almost wrote 'low-hanging fruit'! TresPicos would have been furious! Thank goodness I caught myself in time!"


Point taken.

On the other hand, someone who did read all this stuff may later come across another poster who uses the expression and think to herself "He used the expression "low-hanging fruit". What an idiot!"


----------



## Ingélou

We need to know clichés before we can avoid them. And if they drop completely out of usage, someone will discover them again & think they're fresh. It's odd how words do come back into fashion again - 'cool' was a term of praise in the 1950s and now it is again, but twenty years ago, it would have sounded passé.


----------



## JCarmel

Re the word 'musical'...I admit to using the dread word myself in moments of a Senior nature, when the brain just will not auto-suggest anything more penetrating as a comment. So I for one, would not like to lose the word or be made to feel guilty & even more mentally 'challenged' when utilising, than I already unfortunately do?!


----------



## Mahlerian

BPS said:


> How about idiomatic? Any haters?


'Tis a great word, methinks, and useful. What would you consider an acceptable one-word substitute for the concept?


----------



## Vesteralen

"Melodic" is another word that can be useful in certain contexts. If I'm talking about a piece of serious music composed within the last forty years and I call it "surprisingly melodic", I would venture to guess that that does convey a specific thought to the reader.


----------



## Mahlerian

Vesteralen said:


> "Melodic" is another word that can be useful in certain contexts. If I'm talking about a piece of serious music composed within the last forty years and I call it "surprisingly melodic", I would venture to guess that that does convey a specific thought to the reader.


Unless, of course, your reader usually enjoys post-WWII music and finds much of it quite melodic...


----------



## Vesteralen

Mahlerian said:


> Unless, of course, your reader usually enjoys post-WWII music and finds much of it quite melodic...


It can be enjoyed without its being melodic.


----------



## ptr

BPS said:


> How about idiomatic? Any haters?


Not for a second, I actually think that when most(?) say "musical" they actually mean "idiomatic" ? Meaning suitable for the characteristics of a piece...

/ptr


----------



## Mahlerian

Vesteralen said:


> It can be enjoyed without its being melodic.


Of course, but that doesn't mean that you're surprised when it _is_.


----------



## Vesteralen

Mahlerian said:


> Of course, but that doesn't mean that you're surprised when it _is_.


_I _ am


----------



## mstar

I dislike the words "trolling" and the not-even-a-word "YOLO" as well as the musical term "largo." 

Sure I'm fine with largo being used. Not a problem. The word itself just bothers me. It's like it is telling me to play it r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y. . . . 

That and ritardando are simply unpleasant.  

How about a more positive thread for our favorite words?


----------



## Guest

mstar said:


> [...] How about a more positive thread for our favorite words?


Yes! Can I start? 
a) Onomatopoeic
b) Stir-fried.


----------



## PetrB

Manxfeeder said:


> Well, I hate the key of A, because it makes alto sax players have to play in F#.
> 
> So far, this has been interesting. I'm learning what not to say around here.


Oh please, never censure yourself.

There are enough forces from the exterior who would love to try, so please, don't capitulate


----------



## PetrB

Melody and Melodic -- readily replaced without any loss as to meaning or intent with the word "Lyric"


----------



## Schubussy

mstar said:


> How about a more positive thread for our favorite words?
> 
> 
> 
> TalkingHead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes! Can I start?
> a) Onomatopoeic
> b) Stir-fried.
Click to expand...

Defenestration

more characters


----------



## violadude

I don't like the word pretentious. I never really detect pretentiousness in music so it's hard to relate to musical descriptions that use this word.


----------



## mstar

Schubussy said:


> Defenestration
> 
> more characters


That is officially one of my favorite words....


----------



## aleazk

violadude said:


> I don't like the word pretentious. I never really detect pretentiousness in music so it's hard to relate to musical descriptions that use this word.


What if somebody writes a piece called "the best symphony ever written".


----------



## mstar

aleazk said:


> What if somebody writes a piece called "the best symphony ever written".


*Sigh* Yes, I have mentioned that, and that I greatly dislike that description. It is like saying "stuff" - it makes one seem musically uneducated to a certain extent, in my opinion....

A word that I love: pianississississississississimo. (Tchaikovsky's Sixth has something quite similar written. For bassoons. Yes, bassoons.) :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## trazom

"Overrated," and the equally ever-present and annoying acronym IMO or IMHO. Always makes the poster suddenly seem 12 years old.


----------



## Tristan

trazom said:


> "Overrated," and the equally ever-present and annoying acronym IMO or IMHO. Always makes the poster suddenly seem 12 years old.


I use IMHO 

What about AFAIC? ("as far as I'm concerned")


----------



## aleazk

I hate when people say that they hate the word hate.


----------



## Blancrocher

aleazk said:


> I hate when people say that they hate the word hate.


Ahem, oh ah  funny you should mention that...

Don't look at the preceding page of this thread, please. 

No reason.


----------



## aleazk

Blancrocher said:


> Ahem, oh ah funny you should mention that...
> 
> Don't look at the preceding page of this thread, please.
> 
> No reason.


Too late!... and yes, I'm afraid I will have to hate you now.  
But... hey!... you can hate my hate.


----------



## PetrB

Tristan said:


> I use IMHO
> 
> What about AFAIC? ("as far as I'm concerned")


I'm usually more irritated by acronyms than anything, not everyone knows, nor should they need to look up in the urban dictionary, IRL, for example -- or a host of other similar acronyms. Their use is very much from the trend of texting, lazy typists, and used most by about one generation.

I've dropped IMO, IMHO, though I've used them, and only use them now when wanting to be satiric or in a joking manner.

I just used NYPHil as a shorthand, but it has some context other than sitting like a rock on a prairie.

The sprinkled but constant appearances of the newer acronyms has made me find and be aware of the urban dictionary, though.

I like some of the newly coined words, like this one: 
nocialize: to ignore your friends or company because you are instead busy with your iPhone.

P.s. Some words we know and take for granted are already acronyms, and have slipped into the language.
S.C.U.B.A. ~ Self Contained Underwater Breathing Aparatus
L.A.S.E.R ~ Light Amplified by Synthetic Radiation
I don't think ROFLMAO is ever going to make it to word status, just doesn't roll off the tongue too readily


----------



## moody

Tristan said:


> I use IMHO
> 
> What about AFAIC? ("as far as I'm concerned")


I don't have humble opinions--if your opinion is humble don't bother with it.


----------



## Celloman

Do you think that if we started a thread entitled, "TC Members That We Hate", it would catch on? Anybody up for it?

:lol:


----------



## Ukko

Celloman said:


> Do you think that if we started a thread entitled, "TC Members That We Hate", it would catch on? Anybody up for it?
> 
> :lol:


Wouldn't work for me. 'Hate' is too strong a word for ethereal relationships. At last count there were 18 members on my Ignore List, but I use that list mostly to avoid attracting a mod's attention, not because I hate the members.


----------



## Aurelian

Besides individual words, I dislike whole articles that are filled with fancy words and generally pretentious writing (e.g., "overflowing with passion and joy"). Some writers think normal words are not good enough.


----------



## Ingélou

Celloman said:


> Do you think that if we started a thread entitled, "TC Members That We Hate", it would catch on? Anybody up for it?
> 
> :lol:


We've had threads this year that though not founded on the premise of naming fellow members that you hate, speedily grew to be just that. They were *horrible*.

No - *Peace - Love - Joy* - those Hippies knew a thing or two!


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## Aurelian

I found I was thinking of when I wrote the previous post:

http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress....-playfulness-in-mozarts-piano-concerto-no-23/


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## PetrB

Aurelian said:


> I found I was thinking of when I wrote the previous post:
> 
> http://taruskinchallenge.wordpress....-playfulness-in-mozarts-piano-concerto-no-23/


LOL. Thanks. "The wounded core of the concerto...." blah blah blah.

I agree, this sort of adjective laden - analogy laden prattle on music can be an extreme turn off, or inadvertent high comedy.


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## PetrB

piangendo ~ it's just so, uh, weepy, ya know?


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## Ukko

PetrB said:


> LOL. Thanks. "The wounded core of the concerto...." blah blah blah.
> 
> I agree, this sort of adjective laden - analogy laden prattle on music can be an extreme turn off, or inadvertent high comedy.


"The wounded core" is a significant clue, but I probably wouldn't stop reading until "In the rare key of F# minor, the andante employs a range of affective techniques all gesturing towards a universe of sorrow."

Apparently there are multiple gestures. By the time I have imagined a few somehow appropriate hand gestures, reading further is contraindicated.


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## PetrB

Hilltroll72 said:


> "The wounded core" is a significant clue, but I probably wouldn't stop reading until "In the rare key of F# minor, the andante employs a range of affective techniques all gesturing towards a universe of sorrow."
> 
> Apparently there are multiple gestures. By the time I have imagined a few somehow appropriate hand gestures, reading further is contraindicated.


The most "affected" thing about this Mozart concerto is this article written about it


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## HaydnBearstheClock

I hate the word ecomony.


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## PetrB

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> I hate the word ecomony.


But how do you _*feel*_ about the current _*economic climate*_?


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## moody

ptr said:


> Not for a second, I actually think that when most(?) say "musical" they actually mean "idiomatic" ? Meaning suitable for the characteristics of a piece...
> 
> /ptr


I wish you hadn't changed your avatar,that's how I recognise members.


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## mstar

moody said:


> I wish you hadn't changed your avatar,that's how I recognise members.


So I assume you mean that you want us to know you as a knight, Moody....


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## Ukko

mstar said:


> So I assume you mean that you want us to know you as a knight, Moody....


More likely as 'armored warrior'.


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## Couchie

TresPicos said:


> I really detest "management-speak". I don't want to hear about action items or road maps or core values or low-hanging fruit, and I don't care about the difference between strategy and tactics.
> 
> At a meeting at work not long ago, I myself used - to my subsequent horror - the word "challenge" instead of "problem". I gasped for air and just wanted to cry.
> 
> Since then, I have decided to try to collect such words for fun instead of just cringing at them. Perhaps such a project is not sustainable over time, but if so I will just sunset it.


*"Core competency" *- Let us strive to be adequate! If we happen to catch some peripheral excellence, so much the better.
*"Standard practice" *- used to justify doing something the way you did it in the past without giving a real reason
*"Resource play"* - because developing hundred million dollar projects is so like football
*"Let's take it offline" *- In a meeting two people finally realized they were wasting everybody else's time
*"Going forward" *- "well this was a complete ****-up, but let's focus on the future"
*"Leverage" -* a word which accompanies some useless bullsh*t
*"Value adder" **-* used to justify a cost adder
*"Cost adder" - *used to defeat a value adder
*"Forward looking statement" -* a large block of unreadable text shown for 1 second before presentations explaining that the future may be uncertain
*"Paradigm shift"*- because "game changer" just isn't pretentious enough
*"Networking" *- establishing superficial relationships in the interests of career advancement
*"Lessons learned"*- list of things done wrong and will likely be done wrong next time as well


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## HaydnBearstheClock

Couchie said:


> *"Core competency" *- Let us strive to be adequate! If we happen to catch some peripheral excellence, so much the better.
> *"Standard practice" *- used to justify doing something the way you did it in the past without giving a real reason
> *"Resource play"* - because developing hundred million dollar projects is so like football
> *"Let's take it offline" *- In a meeting two people finally realized they were wasting everybody else's time
> *"Going forward" *- "well this was a complete ****-up, but let's focus on the future"
> *"Leverage" -* a word which accompanies some useless bullsh*t
> *"Value adder" **-* used to justify a cost adder
> *"Cost adder" - *used to defeat a value adder
> *"Forward looking statement" -* a large block of unreadable text shown for 1 second before presentations explaining that the future may be uncertain
> *"Paradigm shift"*- because "game changer" just isn't pretentious enough
> *"Networking" *- establishing superficial relationships in the interests of career advancement
> *"Lessons learned"*- list of things done wrong and will likely be done wrong next time as well


Where do you work?


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## HaydnBearstheClock

PetrB said:


> But how do you _*feel*_ about the current _*economic climate*_?


it's got electrolytes (20 chars).


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## KenOC

Couchie said:


> *"Paradigm shift"*- because "game changer" just isn't pretentious enough


Some years ago, at a company where I worked, a newly-hired senior VP addressed the employees. He said that our company was adopting an "entirely new paradigm" and went on and on about that. Sadly, whenever he used the word "paradigm" he pronounced it "paradijm." Not sure he ever knew what all the snickering was about.


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## PetrB

KenOC said:


> Some years ago, at a company where I worked, a newly-hired senior VP addressed the employees. He said that our company was adopting an "entirely new paradigm" and went on and on about that. Sadly, whenever he used the word "paradigm" he pronounced it "paradijm." Not sure he ever knew what all the snickering was about.


That's a keeper if I've ever heard one


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## moody

mstar said:


> So I assume you mean that you want us to know you as a knight, Moody....


But of course,fighting off the musical Phillistines--they are all around,haven't you noticed ?


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> More likely as 'armored warrior'.


Call me Sergei Vasilievich Rachmaninov.


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## TresPicos

Couchie said:


> *"Lessons learned"*- list of things done wrong and will likely be done wrong next time as well


As I understand it, that is not the most current expression. Going forward, the word to use, if you are a key player in the in-crowd, is "learnings" (nicely underlined in red by the spell checker).


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## moody

mstar said:


> Call me Sergei Vasilievich Rachmaninov.


Suits you Sergei Vasilievich.


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## SiegendesLicht

My single pet peeve, when it comes to discussing music, is the word "relaxing", especially when it comes to Romantic works. As if all those Romantics with all their passions and longings ever wanted, was to compose a lullaby!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

SiegendesLicht said:


> My single pet peeve, when it comes to discussing music, is the word "relaxing", especially when it comes to Romantic works. As if all those Romantics with all their passions and longings ever wanted, was to compose a lullaby!


Apart from Brahms of course


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## mstar

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Apart from Brahms of course


Nah, even his Second Symphony is pretty rousing.


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## PrimoUomo

_"Swag"_! *"Lol"*! *"YOLO"*! Are words i hate because they not words, and prehaps*"Nice"* because it's sounds stupid when they use it in the danish langauge, and say something like "Ej, hvor er det bare *nice*"


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## Skilmarilion

I've heard some Romantic music (namely Rachmaninov) referred to as "cheesy". I really despise the term. I guess the same applies to "tuneful" and "catchy". 

Such terms just don't go with classical music!


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## Ukko

PrimoUomo said:


> _"Swag"_! *"Lol"*! *"YOLO"*! Are words i hate because they not words, and prehaps*"Nice"* because it's sounds stupid when they use it in the danish langauge, and say something like "Ej, hvor er det bare *nice*"


LOL and YOLO are acronyms anyway. Swag has survived for generations, is probably a word in English. "Nice" can be a problem, because it has shades of meaning not universally recognized; some of its near-synonyms are not close to being synonyms of each other. Hah. "Pulchritude' and its cognates would be a problem - if it were in anything like common use. I thought of it because a Spanish co-worker once told be that it is a little used word in his language, with a meaning close to one of the meanings of 'nice' in English.

[Wow. Talk about useless data... .]


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## PetrB

Hilltroll72 said:


> LOL and YOLO are acronyms anyway. Swag has survived for generations, is probably a word in English. "Nice" can be a problem, because it has shades of meaning not universally recognized; some of its near-synonyms are not close to being synonyms of each other. Hah. "Pulchritude' and its cognates would be a problem - if it were in anything like common use. I thought of it because a Spanish co-worker once told be that it is a little used word in his language, with a meaning close to one of the meanings of 'nice' in English.
> 
> [Wow. Talk about useless data... .]


Yes, but you do often have to find and make your own kind of fun -- 'Struth


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## Cheyenne

Almost anything that fuses the 'tard' (as in 'retard') with something else.. But this was about music: then I concur with relaxing. It just goes with the 'turn off your brain' mentality.


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> LOL and YOLO are acronyms anyway. Swag has survived for generations, is probably a word in English. "Nice" can be a problem, because it has shades of meaning not universally recognized; some of its near-synonyms are not close to being synonyms of each other. Hah. "Pulchritude' and its cognates would be a problem - if it were in anything like common use. I thought of it because a Spanish co-worker once told be that it is a little used word in his language, with a meaning close to one of the meanings of 'nice' in English.
> 
> [Wow. Talk about useless data... .]


HEY! Did you know that Shakespeare coined the word "*swagger*?"

(Another word I hate: _coined_.) 

And the word "*nice*" used to mean quite the opposite of what it does today?


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## mstar

Skilmarilion said:


> I've heard some Romantic music (namely Rachmaninov) referred to as "cheesy". I really despise the term. I guess the same applies to "tuneful" and "catchy".
> 
> Such terms just don't go with classical music!


Poor Rachmaninov! (Yay, see, someone else besides me uses the *ov* instead of *off*.... Regardless of any smirn*ov*, whoever had posted that before.... :lol

He is certainly not cheesy. I cannot even imagine him liking cheese.


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## Ukko

mstar said:


> HEY! Did you know that Shakespeare coined the word "*swagger*?"
> 
> (Another word I hate: _coined_.)
> 
> And the word "*nice*" used to mean quite the opposite of what it does today?


The opposite? Nice once meant a fine sense close to 'fussy', as in fussily tidy, but there's a faint scent of that in the modern meanings. Genteel, unobtrusively sweet - there's the same little old lady with lavender scent around her. Nice, as in a fine distinction - still there.


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## moody

mstar said:


> HEY! Did you know that Shakespeare coined the word "*swagger*?"
> 
> (Another word I hate: _coined_.)
> 
> And the word "*nice*" used to mean quite the opposite of what it does today?


You are wrong about Shakespeare as "swagger" apparently comes from the early 16th century.
But right about "nice" which used to mean ---wanton or dissolute.
All queries can be looked up online.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> You are wrong about Shakespeare as "swagger" apparently comes from the early 16th century.
> But right about "nice" which used to mean ---wanton or dissolute.
> All queries can be looked up online.


Hmph. Suspect sources.


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## Skilmarilion

mstar said:


> Poor Rachmaninov! (Yay, see, someone else besides me uses the *ov* instead of *off*....


I know no Russian, but I believe that the letter "в" is pronounced somewhere in between the English "ff" and "v". I spell it "-inov" in keeping with Rimsky-Korsakov, Prokofiev etc., but Sergei himself spelled it "-inoff" when he moved to the US!


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## moody

Hilltroll72 said:


> Hmph. Suspect sources.


Suspect away as much as you like.


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## Ukko

moody said:


> Suspect away as much as you like.


Ah, thank you. i was worried about that.


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> Hmph. Suspect sources.


YOU, Mr. Hill. :lol:


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## Ukko

mstar said:


> YOU, Mr. Hill. :lol:


Why, that's nice of you.


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## mstar

Hilltroll72 said:


> Why, that's nice of you.


Hilltroll72, since we're off-topic, where did you get the idea for your username?

(And don't you DARE say "*YOU*".... :lol:


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## chrisco97

I *hate* the word _swag_. It irritates me.


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## Frederik Magle

Please, take this thread back on topic: "Words that make me cringe *when reading about music*" (my emphasis) 



mstar said:


> Hilltroll72, since we're off-topic, where did you get the idea for your username?


That might be a fun topic for the community forum


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## mstar

Frederik Magle said:


> Please, take this thread back on topic: "Words that make me cringe *when reading about music*" (my emphasis)


Okay!  I hate when people use the word swagger to describe music. 

Genius! Back on topic, Magle.... :lol:


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## Guest

Other words that cause irritation:
'*ongoing*' as in "Ah, Boss, we have an _ongoing_ situation here.".

Also '*compromised*' as in "Warning! Airlock integrity _compromised_."

Also the ridiculous expression "Excuse my French".


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## Blancrocher

TalkingHead said:


> Also the ridiculous expression "Excuse my French".


You're in France right now, aren't you? Are you trying to tell us you don't like tourists? :lol:

Incidentally, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_my_French


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## Guest

Blancrocher said:


> You're in France right now, aren't you? Are you trying to tell us you don't like tourists? :lol:
> Incidentally, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_my_French


Indeed , Whiterock !! Do you think the Froggies say "Excuse my English"? Nah, they say "Passez-moi l'expression".
By the way : A French kiss? A French letter?


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## chrisco97

mstar said:


> I hate when people use the word swagger to describe music.


Haha, my point exactly...I do not usually hear it about classical music, but other music I have...it is such an annoying word. I am guessing though the OP wanted words we hate when reading about classical music. Sorry about that. :lol:


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