# Birdsong



## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

In this thread we could discuss the following:

1. links to interesting clips showing interesting examples of birds singing - either wildlife or at home
2. influence of bird singing on composers - it is rather well known that:

"Messiaen found birdsong fascinating; he believed birds to be the greatest musicians and considered himself as much an ornithologist as a composer. He notated birdsongs worldwide, and he incorporated birdsong transcriptions into a majority of his music. His innovative use of colour, his personal conception of the relationship between time and music, his use of birdsong, and his intent to express religious ideas all combine to make Messiaen's musical style notably distinctive."

And not that well known that:

"The inspiration [...] was probably the countryside around Mantua. They were a revolution in musical conception: in them Vivaldi represented flowing creeks, singing birds (of different species, each specifically characterized) [...]"

Therefore, now I shall specifically refer to Messiaen fans - could you provide any examples of obvious birdsong use in his pieces for those who are slowly leaning towards finally exploring Messiaen? And to bird owners or bird enthusiasts - could you provide any interesting examples of birdsong or birds singing pieces composed by humans? Just to get the thread going - here are two examples for the latter part:


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

I despise Messiaen, so furthermore my involvement with this discussion is over.


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## Ciel_Rouge (May 16, 2008)

This thread is about birdsong influence in ANY composers - not just Messiaen but also for example baroque composers - I always got the impression that baroque music was largely influenced by birdsong observations. Messiaen was not the first to get interested in birdsong as a source of inspiration.


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## JTech82 (Feb 6, 2009)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> This thread is about birdsong influence in ANY composers - not just Messiaen but also for example baroque composers - I always got the impression that baroque music was largely influenced by birdsong observations. Messiaen was not the first to get interested in birdsong as a source of inspiration.


Just you mentioning Messiaen disqualifies me from this topic, because I loathe him.


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## Alnitak (Oct 21, 2008)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> And to bird owners or bird enthusiasts - could you provide any interesting examples of birdsong or birds singing pieces composed by humans?


Birds enthusiast? - Here I am!.



http://www.talkclassical.com/1708-birds-music.html


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## Elgarian (Jul 30, 2008)

I have a couple of comments to offer concerning the effect on birdsong on _performers_.

The first is the magical story about the cellist Beatrice Harrison and the nightingales in her garden. I've written the story already on this forum, here.

But my second comment arises from something I saw/heard only yesterday. The DVD of the famous Glyndebourne production of Handel's _Giulio Cesare_ (2006) has a documentary feature in which Sarah Connolly talks about how she developed her coloratura for one particular episode by listening to the birds in the Glyndebourne garden. The DVD is this one.


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## Lang (Sep 30, 2008)

Well, there is a lot of attractive birdsong in Jardin du Sommeil d'Amour from the Turangalila Symphony. An ondes Martenot plays a tender song, surrounded by a background of birdsong from the piano. But there is birdsong in most things by Messiaen. I suppose the most obvious examples would be Catalogue d'Oiseaux and Oiseaux Exotiques.


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## marval (Oct 29, 2007)

Well here is a bird singing the blues, no offence but I think the bird might be better than the piano player.






And who could forget The Nightingale duet from Romeo and Juliet.






Margaret


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## msegers (Oct 17, 2008)

Also, for Messiaen, the sermon to the birds in _Saint-François d'Assise_ is full of bird song in the music as well as names of birds in the libretto.

Einojuhani Rautavaara in his _Cantus Arcticus_ uses recordings of actual bird song. Often, when I'm working at the computer and/or listening to music, my parrot is in my lap, as he is now. The _Cantus Arcticus_ is the only piece of all the odd music he has listened to with me that disturbed him. It occurs to me that those birds are probably carnivores (not much fruit in their habitat).


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

The use of birdsong in classical compositions for me creates a sense of being in the countryside, or at least in a big garden.

Albert W. Ketelbey uses a machine that makes bird sounds, and also a chorus, in the piece _In a monastery garden_.

Beethoven's use of birdsong in the _Symphony No.6 'Pastoral' _is well-known.

& there are bird-like sounds from the woodwinds in the central slow movement of Bartok's _Piano Concerto No. 3_. The use of birdsong by Bartok, and of course Messiaen, gives a sense of timelessness. These songs have been 'sung' for centuries, since the dawn of humankind. They are sounds which we have been used to for millenia, much like other natural sounds.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I also must mention *Vivaldi*'s _Goldfinch Concerto_, *Handel*'s _Organ Concerto 'The Cuckoo & the nightingale'_ & J. *Strauss II's *_Cuckoo Polka_.


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## Lang (Sep 30, 2008)

Andre said:


> & there are bird-like sounds from the woodwinds in the central slow movement of Bartok's _Piano Concerto No. 3_. The use of birdsong by Bartok, and of course Messiaen, gives a sense of timelessness.


I believe the woodwind calls in the third concerto are in fact supposed to be insects. Bartok had super-sensitive hearing, and could hear very high insect calls that for most of us would be only silence. It's a long time since I read a Bartok biography, so I could be wrong.


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

JTech82 said:


> I despise Messiaen


What a revelation!


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## Herzeleide (Feb 25, 2008)

Ciel_Rouge said:


> This thread is about birdsong influence in ANY composers - not just Messiaen but also for example baroque composers - I always got the impression that baroque music was largely influenced by birdsong observations. Messiaen was not the first to get interested in birdsong as a source of inspiration.


You might like to read the book _Olivier Messiaen: Oiseaux exotiques_ by Peter Hill and Nigel Simeone.

I don't know this for sure, but to me, I hear birdsong in some of the music of composers like Tristan Murail and Gérard Grisey, both very much influenced by Messiaen.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

Lang said:


> I believe the woodwind calls in the third concerto are in fact supposed to be insects. Bartok had super-sensitive hearing, and could hear very high insect calls that for most of us would be only silence. It's a long time since I read a Bartok biography, so I could be wrong.


I think you're right, Bartok's original inspiration was insect sounds. I think I read this somewhere as well. This was one example of his 'night music.' You've reminded me, I made an error.


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