# I have never listened to Brahms 2nd symphony, which recording should I pick?



## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

I know I know, there’s already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I’m asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i’m going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th’s but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it’s Walter/Col but I’m not sure because I don’t know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I’m looking forward to it


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there's already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I'm asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i'm going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th's but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it's Walter/Col but I'm not sure because I don't know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I'm looking forward to it


Karajan BPO 1986 (Deutsche Grammophon) and Monteux LSO 1962 (Eloquence)


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Done well, and it's less common than you'd think, this is one of the most exciting works in the literature. The coda of the finale should lift you out of your seat. It should be electrifying. There are too many conductors who just don't know the subtlety involved of when to step on the gas and how much to put on. The recording that I turn back to when I need that extra adrenaline is the 70 year old *Bruno Walter with the New York Philharmonic on Sony*. Yes, the sound is mono; doesn't matter. What a thrilling performance. Not to be missed. Beats the socks off of Solti, Bernstein, Karajan, Davis, and other newer recordings.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

Karajan with the Berlin Philharmonic, Abbado also with the Berlin Philharmonic, Jochum with the London Philharmonic Orchestra and Klemperer with the Philharmonia Orchestra are well regarded classic recordings.

The recent Brahms cycle with the Boston Symphony Orchestra with Andris Nelsons also belongs with the great Brahms cycles.


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

I would think there is plenty
Of info and opinions about Brahms 2 and Brahms in general on TC.


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## Xisten267 (Sep 2, 2018)

Karajan's! 






The same maestro with the same orchestra (BPO) is also my reference for Brahms' third symphony. I just love the lush, velvet sound combined with sheer emotional intensity that they produce. I suggest *listening to it* if you haven't yet.


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## ORigel (May 7, 2020)

I know Karajan 1986, Gardiner, and Klemperer. I do not recommend the Gardiner.


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## haziz (Sep 15, 2017)

EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there's already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I'm asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i'm going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th's but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it's Walter/Col but I'm not sure because I don't know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I'm looking forward to it


While I did provide you with a good list of well regarded Brahms recordings in my post above. It seems to me you are overthinking this. Just listen to the recording(s) and enjoy.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Many fine Brahms 2s - Reiner, Bernstein, Szell, Solti, Toscanini....but my overall favorite -

Monteux/LondonSO - great recording, excellent in every movement.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

Walter/Columbia Symphony, Monteux/London Symphony, Jochum/London Philharmonic are all very fine in the Brahms Second....and so is the mono Walter/New York Philharmonic, whose finale is absolutely remarkable!

I agree with you on the Klemperer/Philharmonia Brahms First, but would also add the outstanding Van Beinum/Royal Concertgebouw performance.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

I'd strongly recommend three recordings, but if I were pressed to pick just one, Eugen Jochum's LPO EMI recording would be my 1st choice. When I first started collecting classical music recordings, I asked a composer friend (& notable teacher of composition) about which he considered to be the best recordings of Brahms 4 Symphonies, & he replied that I couldn't do better than Jochum in these works,

--Eugen Jochum, London Philharmonic Orchestra, EMI--you'll have to click on the 2nd symphony below in the link: 



. This performance is available in the Jochum Icon box set, which is a terrific deal for its contents, or on an EMI double fforte '2 for 1' release; that is, unless you're looking to download. By the way, my composer friend knew Jochum at Tanglewood in the early 1970s, and told me that he was nicest man he'd ever met who was a conductor.

--István Kertész, Vienna Philharmonic, Decca: Sorry, but there isn't a good sounding copy of this performance on You Tube, however, Kertesz conducted the Brahms 2nd exceptionally well: https://www.prestomusic.com/classic...es-nos-1-4-serenades-nos-1-2-haydn-variations

--Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, Philips/Decca--this is an underrated Brahms 2nd, in my view:


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## Rogerx (Apr 27, 2018)

Karajan on DG , first cycle ,Bernstein on DG and the wild card: Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Robin Ticciati, have fun exploring.


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## Tarneem (Jan 3, 2022)

Among Brahms 4 symphonies, his 2nd (for me at least) is the most special. This is because it is the most romantic. you are consistently driven by melodies, and unlike the other 3 symphonies. most of the time, Brahms 3rd is always gentle lacks that vicious badass passages that you get in the other symphonies. (the 2nd movement is an exception)

this romantic nature gives conductors a lot of flexibility on the way how they conduct the piece, this is why I highly encourage to listen to as much recordings as possible.

And I highly recommend you to listen to the recording of Celibidache and Simon Rattle


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## TwoFlutesOneTrumpet (Aug 31, 2011)

Go with Solti and the CSO. Outstanding performance in great modern sound.
Another excellent choice is Abbado with the BPO.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there's already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I'm asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i'm going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th's but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it's Walter/Col but I'm not sure because I don't know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I'm looking forward to it


Furtwangler VPO 1945


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

*I have never listened to Brahms 2nd symphony, which recording should I pick?*

Brahms's Second?

When you're done exploring the recommendations given thus far in this thread and you're ready to hear the Brahms Second Symphony the way it was meant to be heard, find a copy of William Steinberg's reading with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra.

I have it on LP in the Brahms Symphonies box set









and on CD in the Memories Reverence - MR2249/2250 - box set.









I prefer the vinyl, but the Memories CD mastering is very good.

You won't find a better Brahms Second than the Steinberg/PSO recording. Unless you have a recording of Brahms conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in modern, updated sound. (The recording doesn't exist.)

There is, however, a "live" recording of Leonard Bernstein conducting the Brahms Second with the Vienna Phil. It's on the Deutsche Grammophon label and is well worth hearing. It's the one Bernstein preferred listening to when he didn't have access to the Steinberg recording. (Okay, maybe I made up that last sentence, but both these recordings -- the Steinberg and the Bernstein -- are gems.)


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Bruno Walter on Sony. Very few can measure up to the man or his interpretation of Brahm 2. His whole cycle in fact is quite solid.


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## Forster (Apr 22, 2021)

EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there's already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I'm asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i'm going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th's but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it's Walter/Col but I'm not sure because I don't know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I'm looking forward to it


Nor have I...well, not in full, only the opening movement of course.

You could do worse than listen to/watch a live performance on YTB. I found this one sufficiently interesting for me to want to listen again and to get to know it better.

It's Myung-Whun Chung and the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France.






(Besides, as you can see from others' recommendations, there's little unanimity.)


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

Subutai said:


> Bruno Walter on Sony. Very few can measure up to the man or his interpretation of Brahm 2. His whole cycle in fact is quite solid.


New York Phil or Columbia symphony?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

HenryPenfold said:


> Karajan BPO 1986 (Deutsche Grammophon) and Monteux LSO 1962 (Eloquence)


There are a gazillion recordings. I am partial to Kurt Sanderling/Dresden and Marek Janowski/Pittsburgh


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

have heard everything listed; my favorite by far -- beautiful orchestra and conductor without eccentricity. A lovely beginning focused on Brahms emotion and lyricism ... and an explosive finale. A tremendous performance one can play every day if they like and one of Bernard Haitink's greatest performances.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

You'll get a load of different recommendations (from prehistoric to ultra-modem) and a host of safe, crusty, old recommendations so I'll throw a similar curveball to a previous, recent poster and say try a few on YouTube until you arrive at one you really like. Get very familiar with it and find out what it is about that performance you like then look for one that is nothing like it. Repeat.

PS. Sonnet, I love Steinberg's Brahms too. Im not with you on the Bernstein though.


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

Crusty guy here (I just like good music)

I think Klemperer is beautifully played but also adds some power that many others lack. Another excellent choice is Karajan 1986 which comes with lush sound and playing.

The best interpretation I have heard is Furtwängler/VPO 1945. The finale beats even the Walter/NYPO for excitement.

Also, for Brahms 3 I highly recommend the Abbado/BPO from 1989.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

The Walter/NYPO is really exciting, he generates tremendous energy in the closing of the finale - but, iirc, the sound is badly congested, obscuring some crucial detail - the descending scale passages in the trombones were obscured - at least on the LP version....
Reiner generates similar energy in his live 3/60 recording with NYPO - not quite as fast as Walter, but still plenty of juice, and the sound is clearer, the brass has a great time of it - clear as a bell, and plenty of it....this one is difficult to obtain at present - was released on Arlecchino, and included on a NYPO archival set...NA at this time??
This performance set the tone for Bernstein's NYPO effort of 5/62 - similar approach w/o the accelerando in coda of mvt IV....LB/NYPO is an excellent version.


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

Heck148 said:


> The Walter/NYPO is really exciting, he generates tremendous energy in the closing of the finale - but, iirc, the sound is badly congested, obscuring some crucial detail - the descending scale passages in the trombones were obscured - at least on the LP version...


I have the cd version, Heck. Its still congested on there. Great energy but the sound works against it. Shame.


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Merl said:


> I have the cd version, Heck. Its still congested on there. Great energy but the sound works against it. Shame.


Yes, those early 50s CBS recordings are hit and miss as far as the sound goes....


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## HerbertNorman (Jan 9, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> Many fine Brahms 2s - Reiner, Bernstein, Szell, Solti, Toscanini....but my overall favorite -
> 
> Monteux/LondonSO - great recording, excellent in every movement.


I'm dithering between this one and the Karajan 1986 with BP , but I think I'm with you tbh


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## HenryPenfold (Apr 29, 2018)

HerbertNorman said:


> I'm dithering between this one and the Karajan 1986 with BP , but I think I'm with you tbh


Try and read Matthew's summary on his Grand Karajan thread ................


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Brahmsianhorn said:


> Also, for Brahms 3 I highly recommend the Abbado/BPO from 1989.


I also really like abbado's Brahms 3, but I think the tempi are better judged by Walter (1962)


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Has anyone yet mentioned Steinberg's Pittsburgh SO recording of the Brahms 2nd on Command Classics?


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## Allegro Con Brio (Jan 3, 2020)

This is maybe my favorite thing Kleiber did that we have documentation of (I don't care for his recordings nearly as much as many seem to):


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## Merl (Jul 28, 2016)

SONNET CLV said:


> Has anyone yet mentioned Steinberg's Pittsburgh SO recording of the Brahms 2nd on Command Classics?
> 
> View attachment 163181


^ Yeah, I agreed with you, Sonnet.


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

My top choice for Brahms Third: Kempe/Berlin Philharmonic, (_not_ his recording with the Munich Philharmonic).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

HerbertNorman said:


> I'm dithering between this one and the Karajan 1986 with BP , but I think I'm with you tbh


Yep....fierce competition for Brahms 2nd Sym....

Monteux gets it right....LSO sounds great....


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## mbhaub (Dec 2, 2016)

Allegro Con Brio said:


> This is maybe my favorite thing Kleiber did that we have documentation of (I don't care for his recordings nearly as much as many seem to):


That was Excellent!!!!!! No ritard, or much of one, at the very close. Superb.


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## vincula (Jun 23, 2020)

Heck148 said:


> Yep....fierce competition for Brahms 2nd Sym....
> 
> Monteux gets it right....LSO sounds great....


I think his version with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra for RCA's even better.






Regards,

Vincula


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

vincula said:


> I think his version with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra for RCA's even better.


Hmmm....Monteux/LSO was a great combination....the SFSO recordings I've heard are not too great sonically, and the orchestra was no match for LondonSO...


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## Brahmsianhorn (Feb 17, 2017)

vincula said:


> I think his version with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra for RCA's even better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. When I did my Brahms symphony survey a few years ago, Monteux/SF came out right next to Furtwängler/VPO overall. I found the 1962 LSO Monteux to be very nice sounding but a bit bland interpretatively next to the 1945 SF. Must have been a good year for Brahms 2nds.

These came out on my "essential" recordings list:

Furtwängler/VPO (1945) (DG, Music & Arts)
Monteux/SFSO (1945) (RCA)
Weingartner/LPO (EMI)
Klemperer/Philharmonia (EMI)
Karajan/BPO (1986) (DG)
Bernstein/VPO (DG)
Walter/CSO (Sony)

.


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## FrankinUsa (Aug 3, 2021)

This should be in the “Orchestral” thread.


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## Subutai (Feb 28, 2021)

Kreisler jr said:


> New York Phil or Columbia symphony?


Colombia Symphony Orchestra. His late stereo recordings are all very fine. I'm aware there's a lot of historical mono about as well.


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## Holden4th (Jul 14, 2017)

One from left field - Fricsay/VPO. It's coupled with an absolutely ravishing Alto Rhapsody. I thought I had all four by Walter and I do but its a strange mix. 1&4 with Col SO and 2&3 with the NYPO. I was sure I had all four with the Col SO so I'll have to rummage through my CDs. They certainly aren't on my external SSD.

Listening to the Monteux via Qobuz as I'm typing this, what a beautiful sound he creates with the LSO.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

If it's still available, the Halle Orch.conducted by James Loughran. I'm very fond of both their Brahms and their Beethoven and would have thought they'd make ideal first versions from which maybe to branch out later.


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

There are so many first rate recordings of this and the other three Brahms symphonies it's hard to choose just one . But I've always loved the set of all four with Karl Bohm and the Vienna Philharmonic on DG . They have a romantic glow that is irresistible , and the V.P.O sounds truly radiant .


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## Algreco316 (9 mo ago)

mbhaub said:


> Done well, and it's less common than you'd think, this is one of the most exciting works in the literature. The coda of the finale should lift you out of your seat. It should be electrifying. There are too many conductors who just don't know the subtlety involved of when to step on the gas and how much to put on. The recording that I turn back to when I need that extra adrenaline is the 70 year old *Bruno Walter with the New York Philharmonic on Sony*. Yes, the sound is mono; doesn't matter. What a thrilling performance. Not to be missed. Beats the socks off of Solti, Bernstein, Karajan, Davis, and other newer recordings.


I agree that the NYPO/Walter record is superb. And in my humble opinion so is Walter's later stereo recording with the Columbia SO. That one is my favourite.


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## fbjim (Mar 8, 2021)

A historical one I loved recently - Edward van Beinum/Concertgebouw, one of those historicals on a bunch of different labels, but it's great sound for the time.


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## premont (May 7, 2015)

I came to Brahms' symphonies through Klemperer and later also got Walter (CSO) and van Beinum. However the second symphony always eluded me until I heard Boults understated, classical reading, so for this symphony in particular I would recommend Boult.


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Big fan of HvK’s 86 recording with the BPO. One of his most subtle, supple recordings. Don’t rate the Monteaux LSO recording at all. Terrible audio quality… throw it in the skip…


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Big fan of HvK’s 86 recording with the BPO. One of his most subtle, supple recordings. Don’t rate the Monteaux LSO recording at all. Terrible audio quality… throw it in the skip…


I have heard that that recording is very good. One of Karajan’s most admired Brahms recordings right alongside his 63 recording of the 1st


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Ludwig Schon said:


> . Don’t rate the Monteaux LSO recording at all. Terrible audio quality… throw it in the skip…


??  the Monteux/LSO is a wonderful recording...sound is quite decent for the time....to what re-issue are you referring,??


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Heck148 said:


> ??  the Monteux/LSO is a wonderful recording...sound is quite decent for the time....to what re-issue are you referring,??


Decca Eloquence…. Turn it on and all I hear is “Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… ”


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Historical: Furtwängler VPO 1945 (F.'s last performance before going into exile, superb performance in pretty good sound)
Studio: Walter CSO or Barbirolli VPO (I don't care what anyone says, I love Barbirolli's Vienna cycle)
Live (video): Kleiber VPO 1988 (the one performance that beats them all, i.m.o., I value it even higher than his famous Brahms 4 - too bad it's impossible to get as audio only...)


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

RobertJTh said:


> Historical: Furtwängler VPO 1945 (F.'s last performance before going into exile, superb performance in pretty good sound)
> Studio: Walter CSO or Barbirolli VPO (I don't care what anyone says, I love Barbirolli's Vienna cycle)
> Live (video): Kleiber VPO 1988 (the one performance that beats them all, i.m.o., I value it even higher than his famous Brahms 4 - too bad it's impossible to get as audio only...)


Is the Kleiber from 1988 not a radio broadcast? I have the Carlos Kleiber DVD Legend box including a performance of Brahms’ 2nd that I believe stems from 1991


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

EvaBaron said:


> Is the Kleiber from 1988 not a radio broadcast? I have the Carlos Kleiber DVD Legend box including a performance of Brahms’ 2nd that I believe stems from 1991


It's rather confusing, I've got the Philips DVD with Mozart 36 and Brahms 2, can't find a recording date on it, could be 1991 - but Wikipedia says the 1991 performances of the same repertoire were with the Bavarian State Orchestra? It's clearly the VPO though.


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

RobertJTh said:


> It's rather confusing, I've got the Philips DVD with Mozart 36 and Brahms 2, can't find a recording date on it, could be 1991 - but Wikipedia says the 1991 performances of the same repertoire were with the Bavarian State Orchestra? It's clearly the VPO though.


It’s definitely the VPO, and I have heard that the 1988 radio broadcast is better than the 1991 performance


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

EvaBaron said:


> It’s definitely the VPO, and I have heard that the 1988 radio broadcast is better than the 1991 performance


That would make it something like the holy grail of Brahms 2nd's then! 
Too bad it seems out of print (a Memories Excellence twofer).


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

RobertJTh said:


> That would make it something like the holy grail of Brahms 2nd's then!
> Too bad it seems out of print (a Memories Excellence twofer).


I feel like Kleiber is the holy grail of conductors. A shame he didn’t record more. I watched a documentary about him and the people that knew him said that it was because he didn’t actually like conducting. I agree that his Brahms 2nd is even more valuable than his Brahms 4th. I also like his Schubert 8 more than his famous Beethoven 5


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Ludwig Schon said:


> Decca Eloquence…. Turn it on and all I hear is “Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh… ”


??...ok...haven't had that experience, glad to say...


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## justekaia (Jan 2, 2022)

Hi Eva, Try Abbado with BPO or Nelsons with Boston SO. Of course Karajan's version is still one of the best as well but as a young person you will probably like more recent versions. Enjoy


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

justekaia said:


> Hi Eva, Try Abbado with BPO or Nelsons with Boston SO. Of course Karajan's version is still one of the best as well but as a young person you will probably like more recent versions. Enjoy


I actually often prefer recordings from the 60’s. Feel like that was the golden age of conducting. I’m not really fond of Abaddo. I’m looking more towards Walter


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## Kjetil Heggelund (Jan 4, 2016)

Pick any one who recorded it lately and an orchestra and conductor you like already.


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## danra40 (5 mo ago)

Kreisler jr said:


> New York Phil or Columbia symphony?


The Stereo Columbia is in better sound, but the Mono NYPO is a more exciting performance.
They are both good.


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## Rach Man (Aug 2, 2016)

If you are interested in listening to a relatively new recording (2008), I am very fond of the Marek Janowski Brahms cycle with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. I think that he/they do a wonderful job on the four Brahms symphonies. The Pentatone recording sound is great, too.


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## Waehnen (Oct 31, 2021)

Josquin13 said:


> --Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, Philips/Decca--this is an underrated Brahms 2nd, in my view:


Listening to this on youtube now. Sounds absolutely wonderful! There is definitely something about Haitink that clicks with me. The exactly same thing that clicks with Mahler. I cannot explain it. Something similar to Claudio Arrau approach maybe -- he always played so that the piano almost sounded like an organ. Haitink makes or lets the orchestra sing in an effortless way, and I find peace in the most musical flow.


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Hi Waehnen,

We're on the same page I think. Have you heard the Arrau/Haitink Beethoven Piano Concerto 1-5 cycle with the Concertgebouw. It's a great favorite of mine:






One of the reasons why this cycle works so well, IMO, is that both musicians were known to pay scrupulous attention to the score. I've been told that Arrau in particular took great pains in this regard. 

By the way, Arrau also considered Eugen Jochum to be one of the most insightful Beethoven conductors that he ever worked with in his career, and as part of his contract with the Concertgebouw in the 1960s, Jochum agreed to teach & mentor the young Haitink in order to get him ready to lead the orchestra; which had a profound influence on Haitink's style of conducting.

Also, have you heard the new remasters of Haitink's 1st Mahler 1-9 cycle on Philips? The CD sound quality is much improved, & the cycle has gained significantly in my estimation. It's even better than I had remembered,






Haitink in his early years in Amsterdam gets underrated I think. He wasn't always the solid but boring conductor that some people claim, actually it could be quite the opposite; although I wouldn't say that he was consistently exciting, either. But he was always dependable, & often quite a bit better than that.


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## Wigmar (7 mo ago)

EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there’s already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I’m asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i’m going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th’s but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it’s Walter/Col but I’m not sure because I don’t know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I’m looking forward to it


I think Klemperer is very good, and probably also Felix Weingartner


EvaBaron said:


> I know I know, there’s already a thread on Brahms 2nd symphony. But I think this is different. I’m asking for a recording for exploring the work for the first time and i’m going to reference back to said recording. Lately I have been listening to Brahms symphonies and so far I have listened to 1,3 and 4 (4 was what got me into Brahms, then I decided to listen to 3 and I liked it a lot and I am busy with listening to 1 but want to start with 2 in a week or so. I have listened to many 4th’s but like kleiber the most, for 3 I think it’s Walter/Col but I’m not sure because I don’t know the Walter recording well enough to really sample with other ones. For 1 I chose Klemperer as my reference recording and that is still the only one I listened to. I hope you will share your recommandation for a reference recording. If you do I’m looking forward to it


I would try to get Weingartner. Brahms heard him perform the 2nd symphony. And also Klemperer I think is very good. Another one is Herman Abendroth, and also Istvan Kertesz


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## RobertJTh (Sep 19, 2021)

Wigmar said:


> I would try to get Weingartner. Brahms heard him perform the 2nd symphony.


Of course Weingartner's recordings are of great historical and artistic importance. I wouldn't recommend them for first listening though, because of the dated sound.
But what to make of the (indirect) claim that Brahms himself sanctioned these performances, based on that single instance of Brahms hearing Weingartner perform his 2nd symphony, 40 years before?

Hurwitz does this all the time in his videos, claiming that conductors like Munch had first-hand knowledge about romantic performance practice so their recordings can be considered authentic and authoritative. But he ignores the fact that some musicians radically change their concepts during their (long) careers, and musicians developing strong personalities in the first place. Take Walter and Klemperer for instance, they both worked with Mahler, but their Mahler recordings couldn't be more different, stylistically.

And in the case of Weingartner we have other proof, in the form of his compositions. He started as a late romantic composer (first 3 symphonies and symphonic poems), then turned to a more conservative neoclassical style for the rest of his symphonies. His recordings all date from this later, "classical" period, and he was known for the clarity and relative objectivity of his performances. Maybe it's not too farfetched to assume his conducting style in his early days was much more free-romantic, in line with his compositions from that era?

So as good as these recordings are, claiming that they represent Brahms' own or preferred style is completely unfounded.


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## Wigmar (7 mo ago)

I think Weingartner's interpretations are of great interest due to his warm approval from Brahms being present in the concert hall


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

When it comes to how conductors change, just consider Klemperer from the '20s in Berlin, the '30s in Los Angeles, his early 50's recordings and then those from the 60s in London ... talk about a difference!


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## Brahmsian Colors (Sep 16, 2016)

For the most warmly expressive detail, I would recommend Walter/Columbia Symphony and Monteux/London Symphony. Also worth mentioning is Istvan Kertesz's live performance with the London Symphony on BBC Legends. Powerfully dynamic, the interpretation is even finer overall than his earlier studio rendition with the Vienna Philharmonic on London/Decca.


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## larold (Jul 20, 2017)

Haitink Concertgebouw


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