# Non classical sounding classical music?



## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

I am not speaking of video game music. I was wondering if there were composers that are but just don't sound classical?


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

I'm kind of unsure what exactly you mean?

But I'll just briefly give what I may think is relevant, given what you've said. I mean by that, classical that incorporates or refers to other musical genres/traditions.

Classical music incorporating -

...* jazz*, plenty here, eg. -
*Ravel *- _Piano Concerto in G_ (movements I & III)
*Gershwin *- basically all of his stuff
*Stravinsky* - _Ebony Concerto, Dumbarton Oaks Concerto, Ragtime_

...*rock music *- *Andrew Lloyd Webber's *_Variations_ for cello and rock group written for his brother Julian (it's on that famous Paganini tune, the 24th caprice)

...*techno* - *Thomas Ades' *_Asyla_, the third movement _Ecstasio_, named after the ecstasy tablet, comes across as _Rite of Spring _meets techno

...*R&B* - Aussie composer *Matthew Hindson *has done stuff like this, his work for chamber orchestra called _Comin' right atcha _is based on a riff from a James Brown song. I discussed it in THIS post a while ago.

...*electronics* - A lot of electronic music sounds to me to be less classical and more like electronica, less mainstream kinds of techno or dj's mixes. The big differences is the lack of a constant dancy beat in the classical pieces (but even in the non-classical things, use of rhythm is often quite sophisticated, the beat always changes, just like in classical). The boundaries between "high" and "low" art are virtually non-existent now, with regards to contemporary musics.

...*folk traditions/world music *- eg. *Steve Reich's *percussion works based on West AFrican drumming. Same with things like *Xenakis'*_ Pleiades _for percussion (the last movement is very similar to African music). Not to speak of "crossover" artists like* Ravi Shankar *who've been doing stuff for decades.

...*Easy listening *- eg. another Aussie,* Graham Koehne*, wrote a piece called _Elevator Music_, a kind of tribute to guys like Harry Mancini and Mantovani, composers of that type of light/easy music genre written for classical instruments...


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2012)

Indeed.

What _does_ "classical music" sound like?


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

It is an odd question...If something doesn't sound classical why would it be categorized as classical? 

If you are talking about classical music that doesn't sound like what people usually think of as classical music...well even Prokofiev fits that description for many.


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Well I just mean stuff that is but just doesn't have the typical sound that people associate. Like maybe something that could be for a movie score or whatnot. I'm asking because most of my compositions don't have the typical sound of what you'd think of classical music.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Erik Satie maybe. Sounds more like Jazz.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

Some composers obviously exploring border territories are

*Nikolai Kapustin* (only composes jazz somewhat in classical forms), 
*Georgy Dorokhov* and *Lucia Dlugoszewski *(rethinking the instrumental possibilities; musical theatre & sound sculptures, though somewhat a la *Helmuth Lachenmann *& *Mauricio Kagel*), 
*Colin Nancarrow* (mechanical pianos),
*Colin McPhee* (inspiration from Balinese music)

The *"Fluxus" movement*´s concert events (1960s, 1970s) questioning traditional concert life;

*DADA* and futurism (*Russolo *noise music, some *Mosolov *etc.).

But I think we´ll very quickly be moving into a discussion of the avantgarde concept ... .


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

Manok said:


> I was wondering if there were composers that are but just don't sound classical?


Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart doesn't sound classical.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Argus said:


> Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart doesn't sound classical.


Black Sabbath sounds classical.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

ACDC also sounds very classical. (sarcasm)


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Black Sabbath sounds classical.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Argus said:


>


www.black-sabbath.com/vb/forum.phpCached It's a lovely site. Many enjoy it there.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> www.black-sabbath.com/vb/forum.phpCached It's a lovely site. Many enjoy it there.


Remind me, who mentioned Black Sabbath first in this thread?

I posted that track to show Black Sabbath sounding slightly classical. Can you, HC, find me a piece by Mozart that sounds slightly classical?


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Mozart is the definition of classical. He was even in the Classical Era.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> Mozart is the definition of classical. He was even in the Classical Era.


If Mozart is the definition of classical, then why doesn't more classical music resemble the sound of soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Classical Music evolves just like any other type of music. Beethoven was influenced by Mozart btw. So were many other composers after that.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

neoshredder said:


> Classical Music evolves just like any other type of music. Beethoven was influenced by Mozart btw. So were many other composers after that.


It's just weird how it goes from Bach with his suites and concertos, to Haydn with his string quartets and symphonies, then bam straight to Mozart with his moist bum sound, then back to Beethoven with his Romantic symphonies and piano sonatas.

Why is Mozart such an anomaly, yet is still classed as classical music?


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Argus said:


> Remind me, who mentioned Black Sabbath first in this thread?


Your Avatar reminds us all, always. Black Sabbath (with its *acronym B S*) reminds us of Argus.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

I was listening to a radio show featuring Rolf Lislevand today. He played this piece amongst others :





(except it was a solo baroque guitar version I think)
It's so much fun !

He also talked about Alessandro Piccinini and Kapsberger, comparing them to some XVIIth century Stockhausen.

Try those.

Baroque guitar music can be very surprising actually, especially when it's played in an ensemble with percussions and others insturments.
Now that i think of it, Boccherini's famous Fandango was written for baroque guitar and SQ 

edit :

I've just found this, exactly what I was thinking about ! Crazy stuff. 




Should I precise that Lislecand and the Ensemble Kapsberger are, I think, recreating someting more than just reading the sheet ?


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

_________ sorry, placement error. got to learn this system, meant a bit of repartee to go, uh, elsewhere.


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## Praeludium (Oct 9, 2011)

Isn't this music wonderful ? (I've found others videos so I post them, but basically it's the same kind of music (spanish baroque guitar music) roughly one century later)


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

HA HA BLACKS ABBATH **** CHEEKS :lol::lol:

it is funny to hear the same catch phrases over and over

HA HA


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Argus said:


> If Mozart is the definition of classical, then why doesn't more classical music resemble the sound of soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


Humor: Epic Fail. Knowledge: Epic fail

Or put into question format: THIS is a 'contribution?'


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Argus just hates Mozart. At least it's less kind of predictable than hating John Cage or (in my case) Wagner - well, his really heavy going stuff like_ The Ring_, at least...


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

PetrB said:


> Humor: Epic Fail. Knowledge: Epic fail
> 
> Or put into question format: THIS is a 'contribution?'


It's a continuation of a discovery I made some time ago about the music of Mozart. Check out the Mozart thread in the composer guestbook section for my referral to moist derrieres. Or better yet go take a shower or bath, then depending on your gluteal dimensions either stand up and shake your hips around a lateral plane or, if you are the owner of regular proportioned buttocks, call in the assistance of a person whom you feel comfortable with naked, then proceed to slap your arses together vigorously. If done with the correct rhythm and dynamic ferocity you should be able to hear precisely the sound fragments of multiple pieces of Mozart played simultaneously.



Sid James said:


> ^^Argus just hates Mozart. At least it's less kind of predictable than hating John Cage or (in my case) Wagner - well, his really heavy going stuff like_ The Ring_, at least...


Wagner has created some really great music, the prelude to Das Rheingold being a pinnacle of pre-20thC music. However, he ruins all that by outweighing the good stuff about 50:1 by unlistenable operatic warbling and interminable pomposity.

If Wagner wrote tone poems instead of operas he might have gone on to be a better composer.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Argus said:


> It's a continuation of a discovery I made some time ago about the music of Mozart. Check out the Mozart thread in the composer guestbook section for my referral to moist derrieres. Or better yet go take a shower or bath, then depending on your gluteal dimensions either stand up and shake your hips around a lateral plane or, if you are the owner of regular proportioned buttocks, call in the assistance of a person whom you feel comfortable with naked, then proceed to slap your arses together vigorously. If done with the correct rhythm and dynamic ferocity you should be able to hear precisely the sound fragments of multiple pieces of Mozart played simultaneously.
> 
> Wagner has created some really great music, the prelude to Das Rheingold being a pinnacle of pre-20thC music. However, he ruins all that by outweighing the good stuff about 50:1 by unlistenable operatic warbling and interminable pomposity.
> 
> If Wagner wrote tone poems instead of operas he might have gone on to be a better composer.


Nice notes from a Black Sabbath (acronym B S) lover.


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## Argus (Oct 16, 2009)

HarpsichordConcerto said:


> Nice notes from a Black Sabbath (acronym B S) lover.


I think you're getting sidetracked from the main discourse in this thread. The discussion is about non classical sounding classical music. I mentioned Mozart because his music sounds like damp **** cheeks clacking together. Why are mentioning a rock band that sounds like a rock band?

By the way, I sincerely hope you carried out my bathroom experiment. It may enlighten you for further Mozart discussion.


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## Manok (Aug 29, 2011)

Funny I thought Mozart typifies the classical "sound"


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

Argus said:


> I think you're getting sidetracked from the main discourse in this thread. The discussion is about non classical sounding classical music. I mentioned Mozart because his music sounds like damp **** cheeks clacking together. Why are mentioning a rock band that sounds like a rock band?
> 
> By the way, I sincerely hope you carried out my bathroom experiment. It may enlighten you for further Mozart discussion.


It delights me when somone is always sincerely hoping upon my will to do something (even if it is about bathroom experiments/whatever). It delights me even further when they assume my knowledge of Mozart and his music will be further enlightened upon that. Do keep sincerely hoping.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Manok said:


> Funny I thought Mozart typifies the classical "sound"


Argus does not typify a classical listener at all.

Edit: And for him to claim that Mozart doesn't typify a classical sound at all, well, he's Argus, I guess, I don't really understand.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Argus said:


> Wagner has created some really great music, the prelude to Das Rheingold being a pinnacle of pre-20thC music. However, he ruins all that by outweighing the good stuff about 50:1 by unlistenable operatic warbling and interminable pomposity.
> 
> If Wagner wrote tone poems instead of operas he might have gone on to be a better composer.


I disagree. There's a huge difference between listening to the _Prelude and Liebestod_ and listening to the _Liebestod _ at the end of the four hour opera. And I feel really sorry for those who have only heard the former.


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## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Argus said:


> If Mozart is the definition of classical, then why doesn't more classical music resemble the sound of soggy **** cheeks slapping together.


Please grasp your ears firmly and remove your head from your own **** cheeks. I fear you've had your head up there so long your sphincter is cutting off the circulation to your brain.


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## Very Senior Member (Jul 16, 2009)

trazom said:


> Please grasp your ears firmly and remove your head from your own **** cheeks. I fear you've had your head up there so long your sphincter is cutting off the circulation to your brain.


Not bad advice but it could stuck permanently.


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