# Symphonie Fantastique- repeat in 4th mvt.



## Gordontrek (Jun 22, 2012)

So I've been listening to a lot of Symphonie Fantastique recordings since I'm looking for a good one to buy on CD. Something I've noticed: in the fourth movement, about 2 minutes into the piece, some recordings repeat back to the beginning. Sure enough, in bar 77 of the score, there's a repeat marked. I'd say that the number of recordings which omit it outnumber the ones that actually do it. Why do so many recordings omit it? Is it right or wrong to omit it or does it really matter?
(personally, I kind of prefer it without the repeat, but I'm not Berlioz )


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## Sherkel (Jul 27, 2014)

Repeat markings from before the time recording existed are often regarded as a means for contemporary audiences to have been able to absorb the music thoroughly after a single listen, rather than as an integral element of the work's structure. As such, some conductors choose to follow certain repeats and others don't.


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## Classical Music Fan (Nov 21, 2015)

If you're good at using music editing software you can artificially add repeats to recordings that don't have them. But since some pieces have a bridge connecting the two exposition sections this can sometimes be difficult. Ex: Beethoven's Fifth Finale, Dvorak's New World.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

In earlier recording days before digital editing equipment existed, taking a repeat was a good way to dramatically increase the chances of somebody in the orchestra flubbing something and ruining the take. Leaving the repeat out was a way to increase your odds of getting a "clean" take.

As more modern editing equipment/technology has become available in recent years, conductors are increasingly willing to add in the extra risk in order to make their recording more "definitive". For example, back in the mid-70s, one of the selling points of Solti-Chicago's Beethoven Symphonies set (ADD) was that it was the first one ever made that included every single repeat in every single symphony. That was unheard of (pardon the pun) beforehand. Since then, however, it has become much more common (although not unanimous by any means) for Beethoven Symphonies sets to include all the repeats. (And oddly enough, Solti's 2nd set (DDD), also with Chicago, did _not_ include all the repeats. Go figure.)

Whether or not it's "right" to include a repeat is a matter of debate that is not likely to be resolved anytime soon, especially since each piece probably needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

For example, the first 8 of Beethoven's symphonies all include a 1st-mvt exposition repeat, so Sherkel's suggestion that they were inserted mainly as listening aids rather than as structurally integral elements might hold some weight.

On the other hand, if we consider Mahler's 6th Symphony, that is the only symphony Mahler ever wrote where he included an exposition repeat, so if he intended it as a mere listening aid, then wouldn't he have followed a similar practice with his other symphonies like Beethoven? That being the case, most recordings that I'm familiar with of Mahler 6 do include the repeat. (Levi-Atlanta is the only one I'm aware of that doesn't. If anybody knows of others, please feel free throw them into the mix as well.)


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Classical Music Fan said:


> If you're good at using music editing software you can artificially add repeats to recordings that don't have them. But since some pieces have a bridge connecting the two exposition sections this can sometimes be difficult. Ex: Beethoven's Fifth Finale, Dvorak's New World.


I did this with the Abbado-Berlin recording of Brahms 1. Since he took the repeats in Brahms 2 and Brahms 3, it irked me to no end that he didn't follow suit for some inexplicable reason with #1. So I whipped out Adobe Audition, did a little crossfading/counter-balancing, and now Abbado takes the repeat whether he wanted to or not!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

dsphipps100 said:


> On the other hand, if we consider Mahler's 6th Symphony, that is the only symphony Mahler ever wrote where he included an exposition repeat, so if he intended it as a mere listening aid, then wouldn't he have followed a similar practice with his other symphonies like Beethoven? That being the case, most recordings that I'm familiar with of Mahler 6 do include the repeat. (Levi-Atlanta is the only one I'm aware of that doesn't. If anybody knows of others, please feel free throw them into the mix as well.)


No, there is a repeat of the exposition of the First as well, and he considered one for the Fifth's second movement (which is the sonata-allegro of the work) before removing it.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

That's right, I forgot, thanks for straightening me out on that.


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