# Sex (Gender) and Classical Music



## Metairie Road (Apr 30, 2014)

To my dismay I find that my classical CD collection consists entirely of 'male' composers. 

Being a modern kind of person and wishing to diversify, I would appreciate it if anyone could recommend any classical works by female composers.

I'll assume for the time being that females are at least as intelligent and creative as males (Personal experience to the contrary notwithstanding).

Best wishes
Metairie Road


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Quick list off the top of my head of female composers whose works you should explore:

Un Suk Chin
Liza Lim
Kaija Saariaho
Sofia Gubaidulina
Louise Farrenc
Ruth Crawford Seeger
Amy Beach
Hildegard


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

There´s been some threads on this subject; what to choose would partly depend on your taste in classical music.
But:
*Sofia Gubaidulina*:_ Sonata _



 _Chaconne_ for piano 




Cf. 
http://www.talkclassical.com/26427-greatest-female-composer.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/30724-female-composers.html
http://www.talkclassical.com/24583-womens-history-month-discussion.html


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## Nevum (Nov 28, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Quick list off the top of my head of female composers whose works you should explore:
> 
> Un Suk Chin
> Liza Lim
> ...


Great list. Especially Louise Farrenc. Her music has some similarities with Schubert style. She is amazing. One of my favorite composers.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Clara Schumann wrote a piano concerto, solo piano pieces, chamber music and lieder.

Worth exploring, if you are not restricting yourself to the "moderns".


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## Bruce (Jan 2, 2013)

I'd certainly second the nomination of Clara Schumann to this list. Her piano works are really beautiful.

And I'd also add Libby Larson, Germanie Tailleferre, Fanny Mendelssohn (especially her cycle of short piano pieces "Das Jahr"), Barbara Pentland, and Ellen Zwilich.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

I second most of the names mentioned and would like to add Grażyna Bacewicz, Thea Musgrave and Galina Ustvolskaya.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

Seconding:
Chin
Gubaidulina
Saariaho
Ustvolskaya
Hildegard
Schumann

And I'll add:
Misato Mochizuki
Olga Neuwirth
Rebecca Saunders
Anna Thorvaldsdottir
Helena Tulve
Judith Weir


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## QuietGuy (Mar 1, 2014)

Cecile Chaminade (Flute Concertino op. 107) and piano pieces.

Edit: I'd like to second Libby Larson, mentioned above.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Gloria Coates is not for everybody, but she is unique.


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## Hmmbug (Jun 16, 2014)

It would of course be difficult to find any composers of the classical era, male or female!


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## GhenghisKhan (Dec 25, 2014)

Meh.

I was thinking of something else when I saw the thread title.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

Manxfeeder said:


> Gloria Coates is not for everybody, but she is unique.


Gah, how could I forget her with all this 100+ string quartets business floating around!


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Metairie Road said:


> I'll assume for the time being that females are at least as intelligent and creative as males (Personal experience to the contrary notwithstanding).


How charitable of you


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

Three *earlier* ones:
Barbara Strozzi - baroque singer and composer - 



Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre - French baroque harpsichordist 



 (HReichgott told me about her :tiphat

Duchess Maria Antonia of Bavaria - an 18th century composer - 




Even *earlier*, Maddalena Casulana, lutenist - 




*Earliest*, the ubiquitous Hildegard of Bingen  - 




*'I'll assume for the time being that females are at least as intelligent and creative as males (Personal experience to the contrary notwithstanding).'* - Thanks for the left-handed compliment, but remember that intelligence and creativity might need luck, finance, education, and a supportive social context when we're talking about the composition of classical music.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Metairie Road said:


> To my dismay I find that my classical CD collection consists entirely of 'male' composers.
> 
> Being a modern kind of person and wishing to diversify, I would appreciate it if anyone could recommend any classical works by female composers.
> 
> ...


Heh, your third sentence kinda contradicts the start of your second, doesn't it? :lol:

Meredith Monk
Dobrinka Tabakova
Lera Auerbach
Julia Wolfe
Joan Tower
Caroline Shaw
Gabriela Lena Frank
Cecilia McDowall
Nicole Lizée
Roxanna Panufnik
Augusta Read Thomas
Anna Meredith
Jennifer Higdon
Victoria Bond
Sally Beamish


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

... these are a few of my favorite things! 

Ahem.

Thread duty: Hildegard, above all. Among others mentioned already, I want to affirm Gubaidulina, Saariaho, Tailleferre, and Chin; maybe also Tower, Beach, and maybe even Higdon. 

Among the ones I haven't seen mentioned, I'll add Pauline Oliveros and Franghiz Ali-Zadeh with emphasis, and also Bun-Ching Lam (or Lam Bun-Ching), Chen Yi, Dora Pejacevic, and maybe also Barbara White. 

Also, you can find a Savall recording of women troubadours that (judging from a recent poll) is pretty popular here.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Sex and Classical Music: I'm sure it would work  but the more rhythmic beat of rock would get you there faster :devil:


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

brotagonist said:


> Sex and Classical Music: I'm sure it would work  but the more rhythmic beat of rock would get you there faster :devil:


What...you never did it to the Ride of the Valkyries!?

As regards the amount of Female composers in the contemporary field...Its amazing how composers can flourish when they're not being as heavily repressed as they have been for millennia.


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## OlivierM (Jul 31, 2014)

I must confess a certain disappointment when comparing the thread's title to its content 

There are quite a lot of female composers actually.

I'll add those to the list, which, unless I read too quickly, weren't quoted yet :

Edith Canat de Chizy, Frances-Marie Uitti (Improvisations), Suzanne Giraud, Elena Kats-Chernin, Betsy Jolas, Ha-Yang Kim, Eleni Karaindrou, Louise Farrenc, Sylvie Courvoisier, Mosato Mochizuki, Olga Neuwirth, Isabel Mundry, Donnacha Dennehy, Agata Zubel, Ana-Maria Avram, Bela Emerson, Lili & Nadia Boulanger, Mélanie Bonis, Chaya Czernowin, Ellen Taaffe Zwilich, Barbara Monk Feldman, Alina Piechowska-Pascal, Felicia Donceanu, Annie Gosfield, Konstantia Gourzi, Rebecca Saunders, Betty Olivero, Hilda Paredes, Julia Wolfe, Lucia Ronchetti ...


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Fanny Mendelssohn wrote some nice solo piano music.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

I like Avram, I just get more out of Dumitrescu.

I like Meredith Monk when I'm not annoyed by Meredith Monk. 

Perhaps I forgot Pauline Oliveros because she looks so damn masculine.

I've heard Isabel Mundry and Elena Mendoza and whatever other KAIROS composers I forgot in my initial post, but they don't seem to have done that much yet. Hopeful, though.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I can provide a second nod for Anna Thorvaldsdottir's exceptional compositions. Her latest work is out on DG called Aerial.

Here is an earlier work of hers:






Joan Tower is another very fine composer too, worth checking out.


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## rrudolph (Sep 15, 2011)

Haven't seen listed so far:

Shulamit Ran
Tanya Leon
Bunita Marcus
Maryanne Amacher
Elizabeth Hoffmann
Johanna Beyer
Daphne Oram

No doubt others will pop into my head later (I'm the veritable KING of l'esprit de l'escalier!)...I'll also be checking into the music of some of the composers mentioned that I've never heard of. A very useful list--this sort of thing is exacty why I come here!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, I love classical music and I adore sex.

I'm ready to combine the two. No objections. Let's get on with it!!


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

Unless you have a collection of classical music that heavily favors the 20th century and beyond, I'm afraid you are going to, in all likelihood, have a dearth of female composers . . . because there were very few. Just the way it was. Might not be right, but it is merely an academic exercise to debate that. But there are some - Clara Schumann, obviously, jumps quickly to mind. But, as a few others have mentioned, I HIGHLY recommend Hildegard von Bingen. Her works are incredible. 

I, myself, don't enjoy a lot of modern composers, so my collection is thin on female composers, as well, and not likely to get much heavier. Honestly, I don't look for the composer's gender as any kind of reliable measure as to whether I will like their works.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

hpowders said:


> Well, I love classical music and I adore sex.
> 
> I'm ready to combine the two. No objections. Let's get on with it!!


I doesn't count if your by yourself!

If we are celebrating women as composers lets not forget Cathy Berberian and a mention in despatches for Delia Derbyshire for her work at the BBC.


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## TurnaboutVox (Sep 22, 2013)

Two more women who wrote fine chamber music:

Rebecca Clarke
Elizabeth Maconchy

amongst many others already named on this thread


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

Kassia c.early-mid 800s Byzantium






love many of the recommendations above, will happily check out the others

but for my money if you wanted the one name to play first it would be Kaija Saariaho


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

...and of course if you want to be overwhelmed by possibilities you could scroll through this:

List_of_female_composers_by_birth_year


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2015)

SimonNZ said:


> Kassia c.early-mid 800s Byzantium
> 
> 
> 
> ...


woo woo for kaija


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingélou said:


> Three *earlier* ones:
> Barbara Strozzi - baroque singer and composer -
> 
> 
> ...


Wikipedia lists 4 before Hildegard http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_year


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Wikipedia lists 4 before Hildegard http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_year


As I understand it, Hildegard is not necessarily the earliest female composer. She is said to be the composer of the earliest work that we can assign to an individual with some confidence.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Looking at the Wikipedia list, I just remembered Isabel Mundry. Here's a work I particularly admire:


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> As I understand it, Hildegard is not necessarily the earliest female composer. She is said to be the composer of the earliest work that we can assign to an individual with some confidence.


Gotta love Hildegard. She is also credited for writing some brilliant stuff about the use of herbs and plants in medicine and the earliest known written description of a female orgasm.....and she was a nun.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

She was also an influential political advisor, theologian, and traveling purveyor of the gospels. She experienced visual hallucinations and drew pictures of them -- Oliver Sacks wrote of this, attributing them to migraines.

She was _not _PC: "So too those of female sex should not approach the office of My altar; for they are an infirm and weak habitation, appointed to bear children and diligently nurture them. A woman conceives a child not by herself but through a man, as the ground is plowed not by itself, but by a farmer."


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

An outstanding 18th century female composers was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élisabeth_Jacquet_de_La_Guerre

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_year#1750

These were courageous individuals because women who were musicians, artists etc during the 18th century were not really "approved".


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Chiara Margarita Cozzolani (27 November 1602 - ca. 1676-1678):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiara_Margarita_Cozzolani

http://www.cozzolani.com/


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

KenOC said:


> She was also an influential political advisor, theologian, and traveling purveyor of the gospels. She experienced visual hallucinations and drew pictures of them -- Oliver Sacks wrote of this, attributing them to migraines.
> 
> She was _not _PC: "So too those of female sex should not approach the office of My altar; for they are an infirm and weak habitation, appointed to bear children and diligently nurture them. A woman conceives a child not by herself but through a man, as the ground is plowed not by itself, but by a farmer."


Well nobody's perfect. She should read some Michael Moore, especially his book "Stupid White Men" where he lists every factor of the biological superiority of women.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

Kate Soper is pretty durn innovative .


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Lili Boulanger
http://www.talkclassical.com/26114-lili-boulanger.html?highlight=lili+boulanger

Helen Grime, born 1981. Here's a link to my Composer's Guestbook entry that nobody seemed interested in.
http://www.talkclassical.com/35400-helen-grime-1981-a.html?highlight=helen+grime


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

starthrower said:


> Lili Boulanger
> http://www.talkclassical.com/26114-lili-boulanger.html?highlight=lili+boulanger
> 
> Helen Grime, born 1981. Here's a link to my Composer's Guestbook entry that nobody seemed interested in.
> http://www.talkclassical.com/35400-helen-grime-1981-a.html?highlight=helen+grime


Thanks... I just added Helen Grime's CD to my iTunes wishlist. Night Songs looks good


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## Headphone Hermit (Jan 8, 2014)

Badinerie said:


> I doesn't count if your by yourself!


Oh blast - guess I'll give away my dozens of complete solo piano music discs of Haydn, Beethoven, Mozart, schubert etc .... and the Bach solo violin sonatas ... and the 555 Scarliatti sonatas .... and .....! :lol:


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

Forgot to mention Jane Antonia Cornish.
And I suppose Elena Kats-Chernin deserves a nod for that "Wild Swans" tune, too.


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## Metairie Road (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks for the heads-up about Elena Kats-Chernin by the way. I've just listened to Eliza's Aria (vocal version) on YouTube. It'll do perfectly for the contemporary/21st Century portion of a project I'm currently working on.

Research is such a grind. I thought I'd let the contributors here do some of the heavy-lifting for me.

Best wishes
Metairie Road


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Badinerie said:


> *I doesn't count if your by yourself!*
> 
> If we are celebrating women as composers lets not forget Cathy Berberian and a mention in despatches for Delia Derbyshire for her work at the BBC.


Similar to posting on Community Forum 1000 times and not having it add to one's post count, eh?


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

Yeah Tsk...such little value placed upon the community these days!


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## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Wikipedia lists 4 before Hildegard http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers_by_birth_year





KenOC said:


> As I understand it, Hildegard is not necessarily the earliest female composer. She is said to be the composer of the earliest work that we can assign to an individual with some confidence.


Gentlemen, you misunderstand me. Hildegard was merely the earliest woman *on my list*. The three first were earlier than the modern females listed on the posts above me, and from then I moved backward.


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## Polyphemus (Nov 2, 2011)

Badinerie said:


> Yeah Tsk...such little value placed upon the community these days!


Undoubtedly a byproduct of the internet age.


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## Metairie Road (Apr 30, 2014)

I've had my eye on Hildegard von Bingen for a while now as a central character in my project. I'll go with the angle that her ecstatic visions had medical roots (as suggested by Oliver Sachs). Possibly Epilepsy coupled with an extreme form of Synesthesia affecting all five senses.

I won't completely dismiss the possibility that her visions were genuine - There are more things in Heaven and Earth etc. than I am aware of - and it will certainly add to the mystery.

Best wishes
Metairie Road


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## mushrider (Jan 14, 2015)

I recommend this:


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

I've often thought the early death of Lili Boulanger was one of music's great tragedies - her musical voice was strong and incredibly distinctive from a young age, and she already had the support from the music establishment ( unusual for the time ), which would have allowed her to thrive and continue composing. While there are just a few mature works extant, they are well worth visiting. 

Of the present crop, Gubaidulina and Saariaho seem to be top choices. The work of Caroline Shaw was my big discovery of 2014, but to be fair, she is still young and has a limited output - I will see ( and hopefully, hear ) what the future will bring.


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