# What you cannot be taught



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

So I've heard some voice teachers claim they could teach anyone to sing, and I've always thought, "You couldn't teach ME to sing." 

But today I realized that it would be even more impressive if a photography class could teach me to take pictures. I was looking through the pictures I've taken and realized that all of them are bad. Then I realized that every picture I've ever taken has been bad.

So now the list of things I believe I cannot be taught is longer by one: 
- singing
- dancing
- playing sports that involve hitting balls with tools 
- cooking
- swimming 
- drawing, painting, etc. 
- mechanics, construction, etc. 
- driving a stick shift
- skateboarding
- skiing 
- taking pictures 

However, I'm a black belt in internet arguing, so that makes up for a lot. 

How about you? What do you believe you cannot be taught?


----------



## mirepoix (Feb 1, 2014)

^^^^^ I'll take your word for it when you say you can't take photos. However, although I'm not a teacher (let alone a good one) I know I could impart enough knowledge so that your photos would improve. Also:

" playing sports that involve hitting balls with _tools_" - I understand what you mean by that, but still...the hell with reading that sentence ever again.

As for myself, I can't understand stuff like algebra. I just can't. And so many times I've read how some aspect of mathematics is 'beautiful' - but I can't get my head around it and so I'm missing out. And it's a pity because I love beauty in any form. So as I say, I've tried, but I'm not equipped/academically gifted and/or I'm as thick as ****. Ah well, I'll simply have to rely on the few, small, relatively trivial abilities that I do possess and make the most of them...


----------



## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Drawing and painting. Drawing is an absolutely essential skill of a great artist. Many painters today can hardly draw at all. But it's easy for them to throw paint around on the canvas.


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't think anyone can be taught how to build an inside-out violin whilst reciting Shakespeare's 18th sonnet on top of an elephant giving birth to a donkey in the vacuum of space. 

But who knows, I could be wrong.


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Well, you can't teach someone something if they have no will to learn it(maybe with some exceptions)...I just meant if that's the case with some of the things you selected, which can be taught. you just can't teach them the intuition that goes with those who are really suited for a certain skill. I mean, I had to learn how to swim at a young age just because I live next to the ocean, but I'll never be able to learn the endurance it takes to be a competitive swimmer--at least at long distances.:lol:

But what I'm unwilling to learn(or at least perfect): My cooking. It's an important skill, but I find the art of it boring. No matter how great your food tastes, or how pretty it looks, it's all going to come out looking the same in several hours anyways.

I'll echo the sentiment with math, or higher math. I'm not counting statistics which I don't have a choice in whether or not I want to learn it. Calculus 1 was enough for me thanks and I don't see the need to go any further. I'd prefer knowing a little of most things than being extremely knowledgeable at math, anyways, even if it is 'the language of the universe.' Also, it's not a subject that I feel I could connect with someone over, or apply it to something that was tangible, and immediately rewarding. (great, now I'm going to get chewed out by all the physicist and mathematicians posting here).

Oh and finally, I've never had an interest in photography which is the complete opposite of my older sister who loves it and is actually good at it. She won a contest for a photo she took of a classmate during their high school assignment. I had the same teacher she did (7 years later) who was extremely nice and very patient with me. I memorized all the camera parts I was supposed to, I went to class even on the days where we only watched Ansel Adams videos, and aced all the tests requiring memory and knowledge of facts about photography; but I didn't do all my photo assignments, and the pictures I did take weren't that great and it was the only "C" I got on my transcript, but I didn't care, just as long as i filled my fine arts requirement(the other part was symphonic band, which I also hated).


----------



## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

science said:


> - driving a stick shift


If virtually the entire driving population of the UK can do it - I'm sure you could. And there are some very stupid people on our roads, I can tell you. :lol:


----------



## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I don't think anyone can be taught how to build an inside-out violin whilst reciting Shakespeare's 18th sonnet on top of an elephant giving birth to a donkey in the vacuum of space.
> 
> But who knows, I could be wrong.


Is that a challenge?


----------



## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

MagneticGhost said:


> Is that a challenge?


Depends if you're up to it. 

Can challenges of this nature be taught????


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I don't think anyone can be taught how to build an inside-out violin whilst reciting Shakespeare's 18th sonnet on top of an elephant giving birth to a donkey in the vacuum of space.
> 
> But who knows, I could be wrong.


Challenge accepted. Wait! What?


----------



## scratchgolf (Nov 15, 2013)

Things I can't be taught..

-Dancing (don't try)
-Fighting in any kind of discipline
-Sports that involve baskets and balls
-Sobriety


----------



## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

scratchgolf said:


> Challenge accepted. Wait! What?


Yeah right - as if you can source an elephant at this short notice.


----------



## science (Oct 14, 2010)

mirepoix said:


> "playing sports that involve hitting balls with _tools_" - I understand what you mean by that, but still...the hell with reading that sentence ever again.


I was very proud of that sentence.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One cannot teach empathy; compassion.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

You cannot be taught to be a leader. It is something ingrained in a person and they either have leader ability or not. It certainly can be nurtured and developed, but if a person does not have the leader ability (or personality perhaps), it can never be taught to an effective level.


----------



## ptr (Jan 22, 2013)

..wait, wait, wait, ..... no can't think of anything! .. 

But then, there's a million and one things that I don't care if I learn or not! To many for me to even care to write a list.. :trp:

/ptr


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

I can dance Scottish and English country dancing, and in my teens we did a bit of ballroom at school, but Taggart & I cannot be taught to Morris dance. We know this because in the 1980s, we took part in a workshop at the Durham Folk Festival, and found that we did not have the co-ordination to hop up and down while twirling hankies counter-clockwise. I've never been good at that thing where you rub your stomach and pat yourself on the head at the same time either.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

One cannot even be taught to be a pithy poster. It's an inherited gene.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> One cannot even be taught to be a pithy poster. It's an inherited gene.


There is none other like you on TC. You are a unique element and therefore a TC treasure!


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> There is none other like you on TC. You are a unique element and therefore a TC treasure!


Well, I thank you for that, but where Beethoven is concerned YOU are the TC treasure!!! :tiphat:

The next time I play the Missa Solemnis it will be as a toast to you!!


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

hpowders said:


> Well, I thank you for that, but where Beethoven is concerned YOU are the TC treasure!!! :tiphat:
> 
> The next time I play the Missa Solemnis it will be as a toast to you!!


Thank you. I am working on it, but I do think we have a number of folks here who are vastly more knowledgeable than I am on Beethoven, but perhaps I get the rating on zeal alone!


----------



## Dave Whitmore (Oct 3, 2014)

I echo the sentiment about dancing. I have two left feet and no rhythm at all. I firmly believe I cannot be taught to dance.

I also struggle with maths. Forget algebra. Fortunately my wife is a walking calclulator so that's rarely a problem.

To answer the op's post Anyone can be taught how to take good photos and anyone can be taught to cook. As long as they have the will to learn. But nobody can teach me to dance!


----------



## aleazk (Sep 30, 2011)

mirepoix said:


> As for myself, I can't understand stuff like algebra. I just can't. And so many times I've read how some aspect of mathematics is 'beautiful' - but I can't get my head around it and so I'm missing out. And it's a pity because I love beauty in any form.


Well, when physicists and mathematicians talk about 'beauty' in their disciplines, they often refer to simplicity, economy of thought and the 'natural' flow of the reasonings. They would say something is 'beautiful' when it involves only a couple of simple and natural principles or axioms, which in a simple, natural and self-contained way allow them to obtain many interesing results. The thing is that these simple axioms often require to think about the object of study in new ways, and that's why they are not easy to find, and also why it's seen as an achievement when someone does it.

In general, scattered results are found first. Later, someone comes in and discovers some general principle underlying all of this. And this can be very powerful, since this principle may predict new, unknown results. So, this beauty is actually useful.

It's because of its intellectual appeal and also because of its usefulness for discovering new things that this beauty thing is prominent and a desirable goal in these fields.

It may seem that this perception of beauty is purely rational, but when you work in the field for a while, you start to simply 'feel it'.



mirepoix said:


> So as I say, I've tried, but I'm not equipped/academically gifted and/or I'm as thick as ****. Ah well, I'll simply have to rely on the few, small, relatively trivial abilities that I do possess and make the most of them...


Well, I don't know you, so I couldn't say how trivial your abilities are. The only thing I can say is that if you are not good at math, then this only means that... you are not good at math.


----------



## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

It's tough to teach Alchemy and the results are crap
Anyone can dance, sing or play sport the problem is how you decide what success is


----------



## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Table manners. Gotta get my feet right up there in the pasta or it ain't dinner.


----------



## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

I cannot be taught:

- playing games (the relationship kind)
- sweet/smooth talking
- getting drunk


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Probably more things than I'd care to admit.

And I could also probably be taught more things than I can imagine is possible for me, conversely.


----------



## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Some things you just teach yourself, if you want to do it. Driving a vehicle with a stick shift is something I taught myself. I'm sure I could learn the techniques for taking good photographs, but I don't have a passion for photography. 

People can definitely be taught how to swim and dance if they have at least some coordination and physical ability. My parents are good dancers, because my paternal grandfather was a dancing instructor in NYC, and all the kids in the neighborhood took lessons.

In many cases, people have difficulty because the teachers are lousy. But when it comes to the arts, it's useless unless the student has the mental and physical capabilities combined with a fertile imagination.

I taught myself how to play guitar, and I can write competently, but I'm never going to be a musician or a writer because I don't have any imagination. I don't think you can be taught how to play a drum set. I played snare and bass drum in school band, but when it came to sitting behind a drum kit, I had no clue. I believe great drummers are born.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

starthrower said:


> Some things you just teach yourself, if you want to do it. Driving a vehicle with a stick shift is something I taught myself.


 Me too. Started with tow trucks at the filling station I worked at. It was easy because they had a creeper gear so I just turned the key and started the engine with in in creeper gear and it rolled out. That eliminated the launch from my first attempt.

After driving stick for 25 years I was a horrible teacher, but after 35 years finally figured it out when I had to teach my son (TC member Rocco). The key was to go in a parking lot an have him launch without using the accelerator pedal at all. He had to very, very slowly work the clutch pedal, but the benefit to this is that if he stalls it, it simply stalls, whereas the same situation when you are on the pedal will result in a bucking bronco ride (which has to hammer the bearings).

The other problem is the smoked clutch which my wife once did owing to my incompetence as a teacher--it was surreal, the tach was hitting 3500 rpm (redline on that truck was 4000) and the truck was moving out in slow motion, then a strong metallic stench filled the cab. :lol:


----------



## Musicforawhile (Oct 10, 2014)

Other than high level maths...I also can't learn orientation as it were, for instance if I go into a shop on my way somewhere when I leave the shop I might not know whether to turn left or right to continue the way I was going. I can get lost and disorientated quite easily in new places and am also not very good at reading maps.

And if this counts...I also have something like very mild face blindness (undiagnosed), so when watching a movie I can sometimes get majorly confused. But it's more like I think different people are the same person. Like in _He's just not that into you_ I thought two of the male actors were the same person and the same in _Bride wars _ I thought both of the main female characters had been proposed to by the same man - which I found out was not what was going on at all. But this doesn't happen when movies use more interesting and different looking people...
*I'm not really a rom-com fan.
And it happens in real life too, but rarely.


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

I just remembered: I've never been able to learn to how to roll my tongue, even since I was little. That's why I can only listen to some things in Spanish, but wouldn't dream of attempting to speak it.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

hpowders said:


> One cannot even be taught to be a pithy poster. It's an inherited gene.


What are you talking about? YOU learned it, after all. From ME!

One thing I can't be taught: humility.


----------



## brianvds (May 1, 2013)

aleazk said:


> It may seem that this perception of beauty is purely rational, but when you work in the field for a while, you start to simply 'feel it'.


Indeed. One of the most pernicious math myths is that it is all about cold logic. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There is a story about the great mathematician Gauss. One day, one of the students in his class didn't turn up. When he asked what happened to the student, he was told that the youngster has decided to leave the field of mathematics and take up poetry instead. "Just as well," Gauss replied. "He never was creative enough to be a mathematician."

Perhaps apocryphal, but very true nonetheless: there are few fields that require as much intuitive creativity as mathematics, even though it is true that the resulting structures also have to conform to logic. But the creative leap comes first; the logic is only to test whether the intuition was correct. 

Personally, I think that just about any skill can be learned up to reasonable competency by any normal person, though natural
talent will tend to put a ceiling on what you can hope to achieve. I know this from personal experience in my own learning of skills I have little natural aptitude for, including such things as mathematics and visual art.

The good news is that the ceiling is often surprisingly high.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

brianvds said:


> What are you talking about? YOU learned it, after all. From ME!
> 
> One thing I can't be taught: humility.


No - one thing you can't be taught is the art of witty paradox, because you know it already.
By posting about how un-humble you are, you show humility.


----------



## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

ArtMusic said:


> Drawing and painting. Drawing is an absolutely essential skill of a great artist. Many painters today can hardly draw at all. But it's easy for them to throw paint around on the canvas.


I think that you should spend more time in a museum before judging artists. There are plenty of artists that can paint/draw very well. Also almost everyone can be learned how to draw, it requires a different way of seeing things and that is certainly teachable.


----------



## Ingélou (Feb 10, 2013)

ArtMusic said:


> Drawing and painting. Drawing is an absolutely essential skill of a great artist. Many painters today can hardly draw at all. But it's easy for them to throw paint around on the canvas.





Piwikiwi said:


> I think that you should spend more time in a museum before judging artists. There are plenty of artists that can paint/draw very well. Also almost everyone can be learned how to draw, it requires a different way of seeing things and that is certainly teachable.


I 'liked' both posts. Why?

There seems no contradiction here. Plenty of modern artists can draw. True. Many of them cannot. True - maybe because that's 'not what they do'. But if they wanted to, and were of normal ability, they could be taught. True.

And I cannot be taught to keep quiet when I have an opinion bursting to come out!


----------



## Piwikiwi (Apr 1, 2011)

Ingélou said:


> There seems no contradiction here. Plenty of modern artists can draw. True. Many of them cannot. True - maybe because that's 'not what they do'. But if they wanted to, and were of normal ability, they could be taught. True.
> 
> *And I cannot be taught to keep quiet when I have an opinion bursting to come out! *


Haha, you are not alone.


----------



## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

brianvds said:


> The good news is that the ceiling is often surprisingly high.


I liked this final note of optimism. Encouraging post.


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Apparently being the new resident thread-killer is a gift that one simply doesn't learn.:lol: . Everyone knows that person, who walks in on a group of people laughing over a shared joke and attempts to add something and they look at you with blank expressions followed by lots of awkward silence.

.........


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I cannot be taught to stay married.


----------



## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

You cannot be taught to understand the language of birds... unless you are a _certain_ sort of person and you teach it to yourself in a flash of self-awareness bursting out.

But you _can_ be taught to mould your raw understanding of nature and passion to a form comprehensible to the people, if you just listen to what the old Masters have to say.


----------



## Varick (Apr 30, 2014)

trazom said:


> I just remembered: I've never been able to learn to how to roll my tongue, even since I was little. That's why I can only listen to some things in Spanish, but wouldn't dream of attempting to speak it.


LOL. Yes!!! I've been trying to do that for the better part of 35 years. Still can't do it. Every time I try I just sound like a drooling idiot!

You can't teach "instincts."

Ex. 1. When I was bartending years ago, there was a waitress whom I became good friends with. She had absolutely NO "gaydar" (Term for being able to tell if someone was gay or not - from the word radar). During the time span of about 4 months, she became interested in 3 men who started working at the restaurant during that time. All three were gay. We kept teasing her about it. She was always surprised how "everyone else" could tell, but she had no clue. It was very funny. I have met a few people in my time who seem to have no "gaydar." I even have a gay friend of mine who's not too good at assessing it. Again, a constant source of ribbing!

Ex 2. Since I was a child, I have always had an innate sense of whether or not someone was trustworthy. Time and time again, I warned friends not to trust this person or that person. Every time, sooner or later, they did something deceitful and showed their true colors. Some people who have been close to me for a long time are amazed at my accuracy. A few of them asked if I could teach them how to read people like that. I have always told them I couldn't. You either have that ability or you don't.

It's not completely infallible. One time, I met a guy who was the greatest con-man I ever met. Not only did he fool me, but everyone else that ever met him. Luckily (And it was pure luck) I found out what he was up to before I lost a lot. Unfortunately he scammed a lot of other people. Unfortunate for him too. Some of the people he scammed weren't the type of people you want to scam. Let's just say he wasn't as good at hiding himself as he was his motives. Didn't turn out well for him.

V


----------



## trazom (Apr 13, 2009)

Varick said:


> LOL. Yes!!! I've been trying to do that for the better part of 35 years. Still can't do it. Every time I try I just sound like a drooling idiot!
> 
> You can't teach "instincts."
> 
> ...


If you've seen the movie Christmas Vacation, then you know that scene where just before he plugs in the Christmas lights on the house, he asks everyone to do a 'drumroll' where they roll their tongue and his mother-in-law is making this gurgling sound in the back of her throat...well, that's exactly what I sounded like.

Oh, and :lol: I know what 'gaydar' is. And i think some social instincts do at least come down to having a certain amount of intelligence, or maybe 'social intelligence'. One of my friends came out after high school and nobody was surprised, luckily they just left it alone, waited for him to finally accept it and come out when he was ready; but it was always very obvious he was. One of his girlfriends who always had a crush on him told me "I just CAN'T believe he's gay," but then, she has always been well, maybe not the smartest person in the world. We went to some place for lunch and she was talking about one of the two people sitting behind her and I asked her to clarify who she meant "From my point of view, is he sitting on my right or left side?" and she goes "...wait, I can't do it when it's like backwards.":lol: But then, in history class, our teacher made an announcement without mentioning her name specifically "I've never, in my 30 years of teaching, have seen ANYONE get this low of a score on the test. Even just guessing could get most students at least a 50-60 out of 100." But I admit using her as an example is a bit extreme.That's useful skill to have, though to know who to trust. Glad he got what he deserved. I just rely on trusting as few people as possible.


----------



## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Florestan said:


> There is none other like you on TC. You are a unique element and therefore a TC treasure!


Thought I would bump this. Makes me happy. :wave:


----------



## Guest (Dec 6, 2014)

As an English teacher, I would say that "voice" in writing is nearly impossible to teach: it has to come from within. Sure, my classes study great examples and learn all the "rules," but at some point, they have to internalize grammar rules, vocabulary, syntax, stylistic devices, etc. and make them personal. I always equate it with learning an instrument: one can learn the mechanics readily enough, but the _music_, the interpretation has to come from within.


----------



## Huilunsoittaja (Apr 6, 2010)

One thing for sure, ballet dancing. I'll never be able to do it, I don't have the short, petite body type necessary. But I can do ballroom dancing for sure!

I also probably can't learn to run a marathon. I'd probably break something in my body before I'd get to that point for the same reasons as ballet dancing, that my body type doesn't allow for that kind of exercise. I'll just swim.


----------



## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

> There is none other like you on TC. You are a unique element and therefore a TC treasure!





hpowders said:


> Thought I would bump this. Makes me happy. :wave:


You could always quote it in your signature, perhaps prefaced with 
"A TC member says,..." 

Or simply change the "you" to "me" and make it your own personal opinion. 

Too bad your status under your user name couldn't be changed to "A TC Treasure"


----------

