# How important is great sound to you when listening to classical music?



## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

When I was single and in my 20s (in the 70s), I had to have absolutely the best sound I could possibly squeeze out of my budget. Only the best equipment, best labels, best commercially produced open reel tapes, acoustically-optimized sound room, gold-tipped cables, and the like would do. Then I married, and had to give up some of the high-end stuff, but still kept it well above average. Now I’m in my 60s, my kids are grown, I'm a grandpa, and I find that YouTube recordings played through my computer speakers works just fine for all but the most dynamic stuff out there.

Having made this confession, should I withdraw my membership here and join the Old-Codgers-Who-Listen-to-Elevator-Music-Through-Their-Hearing-Aids forum?

Does it make a difference what music you're playing? Can you live with Chopin through a Walmart special, but have to hear Mahler and Shostakovich through only the best systems?


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I've never been a hi-fi buff who spends lots of money on kit so I'm happily attuned to the sound that the middling standard of gear I've always bought down the years gives me. As the wise man said, what you've never had you won't miss. The only weakness with what I have got is my set of (second-hand Wharfedale) speakers as they sound a bit muffled these days, but I'm not too bothered as I prefer to listen to all my classical through (relatively inexpensive Sennheiser) headphones anyway - and if they are fine then I'm fine.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

I miss the old days when there was at least a couple of good audio stores in town. If I need to buy some new equipment, there's no place to go. I shopped at the same local dealer for over 30 years, and the same guy ran the audio dept from the time I was 18 until I was 50 years old. It was sad to see them close the doors. 

I haven't lowered my standards to listening to music on nothing but computer speakers. This cheapening of the listening experience has made the tech companies very wealthy, but put a lot of other people out of work, and killed the retail and record business. And now I never see any of the people I used to run into at record stores and audio shops. I enjoyed the world a lot more when people got out of the house and talked to each other. Now it's a society of zombies staring at their smart phones.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't believe in playing music extremely loud when I listen, so the $8000 B & W speakers will never find their way into the hpowders house.

All I care about is well-balanced engineering-a natural sound-without a ridiculous dynamic range where the soft passages are barely audible and the loud passages blast me out of my seat.

For that reason, I prefer the early stereo recordings, on RCA for example. The Brahms First Symphony with Charles Munch conducting the Boston Symphony, recorded around 1958, is my ideal for a well-recorded orchestral performance.

I don't care much for "digital" sound. It leaves me cold. For that I need expensive speakers?


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

drnlaw said:


> When I was single and in my 20s (in the 70s), I had to have absolutely the best sound I could possibly squeeze out of my budget. Only the best equipment, best labels, best commercially produced open reel tapes, acoustically-optimized sound room, gold-tipped cables, and the like would do. Then I married, and had to give up some of the high-end stuff, but still kept it well above average. Now I'm in my 60s, my kids are grown, I'm a grandpa, and I find that YouTube recordings played through my computer speakers works just fine for all but the most dynamic stuff out there.
> 
> Having made this confession, should I withdraw my membership here and join the Old-Codgers-Who-Listen-to-Elevator-Music-Through-Their-Hearing-Aids forum?


Huh?









drnlaw said:


> Does it make a difference what music you're playing? Can you live with Chopin through a Walmart special, but have to hear Mahler and Shostakovich through only the best systems?


Well, that's entirely up to you. Nobody else can make that decision for you.


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## Humboldt (Feb 18, 2016)

If it concerns Oistrakh, I am fine with his old recordings. In terms of Ashkenazy, Richter, Argerich, Brendel, Rubinstein, Horowitz I like clear recordings. Piano requires a clear sound to enjoy it.


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## Krummhorn (Feb 18, 2007)

Since I listen mostly to pipe organ, the sound becomes somewhat critical for me. I've got KLH 9164 speakers powered by a Sony STR-DE725 receiver/tuner. Spent about $625 on the speakers and receiver in 1998. 

I had gone to a local sound dealer and spent 90 minutes on two different nights trying different amps and speaker combinations after hours. I'm still happy with my choice and have a 5 disk CD changer, a dual cassette player/recorder, and a LP turntable as part of my home audio. 

I have a Monsoon System with 8 speakers in my car that sounds pretty good, too. 


The KLH's are able to handle a solid bass as well as delivering all the mid and high ranges, too.


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## Weston (Jul 11, 2008)

I've listened for years either through 20 dollar headphones or from mp3 files driving what are basically boom box speakers. It's good enough for most purposes. But lately I've purchased a better set of headphones to better drown out the constant clamor at work and I've been astonished at the rich basses and soaring highs. 

I think our brains adapt to the venue -- or the equipment, so it's not a huge issue, but it's nice when you do upgrade at least a little. I'd never be able to adapt to mono however. I've got to have some dimension.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2016)

Sound is very important to me--I like my music to sound as realistic as possible, and I have quite an expensive system. That said, the quality of the performance needs to be good, too. I've heard many state-of-the-art SACDs with stunning sound but sterile, boring performances.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Ideally a good sound system brings you closer to the music. Poor quality sounds give me a headache when listened too long. I prefer listening to speakers and let the surrounding air fill with the music. The effect is closer to a real performance.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Mac - VLC Player - Bose Sound Link Color Bluetooth speaker


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

When I was (much) younger, the sound of my music system was very important. I spent lots of money for each additional increment of sound quality, which were sometimes illusory. A lot of this was during the transition from tubes to solid state, Quadrophonic sound, etc., and well before CD's became available.

Looking back, I think I was more enthusiastic about the sound than the music. Now I have two decent systems, the main system in the living room and a pretty nice but limited system on my computer, driven by an outboard DAC. Both have clean and well-balanced sound, but neither would jog the needles of any true audiophiles. I'm happy with both and haven't made any significant upgrades in several years.

Oh, just saw the OP. Guess I'm part of the "Old-Codgers-Who-Listen-to-Elevator-Music-Through-Their-Hearing-Aid" contingent!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Best system I ever had was a Yahama component system purchased in 1979. Now I listen mainly on a single earbud and in the car. When i watch opera i have computer speakers with the separate single woofer. My main thing is I like to listen a lot so the earbud is great. I do enjoy live performances though.


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## Pugg (Aug 8, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> Ideally a good sound system brings you closer to the music. Poor quality sounds give me a headache when listened too long. I prefer listening to speakers and let the surrounding air fill with the music. The effect is closer to a real performance.


​


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## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

I believe that it would be a great injustice to the various artists and record engineers/producers who did everything they can to create good music if I listen to their finished product on a crappy audio equipment. That is why I really save a lot of money to buy a good sound system. Also, I have this personal/unverified notion that CDs sound better than any downloaded music ( FLACs included). Thus, for me, the best listening experience to any music (classical and non-classical) is a CD spinning on a good sound system(mine is a Pioneer Home Theater System) while reading the CD inlays inside my room.:angel:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Iean said:


> Also, I have this personal/unverified notion that CDs sound better than any downloaded music ( FLACs included).


I am open to correction, but believe that a FLAC file (decoded) has exactly the same musical information as the original CD track and should sound identical on any equipment. For my own aging ears, a 256K VBR MP3 file also sounds the same, so I am not terribly concerned.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

I would love to have a really high end audio system but can only afford a middle range. I do own one of the best headphone sets money can buy and since most of my listening these days is at night while my wife is sleeping having good headphones is a good compromise. I get what I want (great sound as loud as I want) and she gets what she wants (a good nights rest). I certainly would not say my sound system is average though. I have an Onkyo surround sound stereo receiver with 7 Klipsch speakers. The sound is very natural and fills the space quite nicely. Having a 12 inch subwoofer really helps give the sound some good depth and punch too. I have a pair of B&W DM-640 speakers that I was using for the last twenty years for music, but we recently worked on trying to get more organized and we replaced the B&Ws with Klipsch that match the rest of our system and as much as I loved those B&W speakers I have to say this Klipsch setup is way better. So, my B&Ws will be going up on Craig's List for sale.

Kevin


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## Iean (Nov 17, 2015)

KenOC said:


> I am open to correction, but believe that a FLAC file (decoded) has exactly the same musical information as the original CD track and should sound identical on any equipment. For my own aging ears, a 256K VBR MP3 file also sounds the same, so I am not terribly concerned.


Technically, CDs and FLAC files contain the same data..but many audiophiles and music lovers agree that there is still an obvious difference between the sound of a CD and a FLAC file - especially if they are played on a high end audio system :angel:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

To quote a famous Vulcan: Does not compute.


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## joen_cph (Jan 17, 2010)

I don´t really care that much, but rarely listen to pre-1930 recordings, and I also always have modern recordings of works with a better sound than the chosen historical ones. Stereo recordings form by far the vast majority of my collection, at least (90%?). But I don´t distinguish quality-wise between good early, analogue stereo and the most recent digital recordings.

For a few composers, who wrote very delicate music, I largely dismiss historical, pre-1950 recordings - especially Delius, and the purely orchestral pieces by Debussy and Ravel.


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

I discovered Advent loudspeakers and (now sort of classic) Pioneer electronics in college in the '70s. I've been an audiophile ever since. I can listen on modest equipment, but I appreciate well recorded music (classical, pop, jazz) on my main system.

The real issue for me is the way my main system highlights the qualities and shortcomings of recordings. Last night I bounced between a number of quartet recordings. The superior sound of the Tokyo String Quartet (Beethoven on Harmonia Mundi SACDs) made it impossible to listen to anything else after.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

I've always strived to own the very best sound equipment I can buy within the constraints of my middle-class budget. The quality of the sound engineering of the recording and of its play-back in my listening space is very important to me so as to, as much as possible, reproduce the actual sound of the original live performance. The goal for me is always completely neutral audio gear with as low distortion as is possible (which is why I stay away from vacuum tubes and vinyl records). I'm also a bit fanatical about minimizing background noise (which drives my wife crazy).

Here's my gear:

Two-channel stereo: 
*NAD* C356BEE integrated amp
*PSB* Imagine T (floorstanding speakers)
*SVS* SB 12-NSD (subwoofer)

Source: 
*Audiolab* 8200CD

Headphone: 
*HiFiMan* HE-500

Headphone Amp: 
*Audio-gd* NFB-6 in conjunction with custom designed Balanced Cross-feed X6B (Modified Linkwitz-Cmoy in double balanced configuration)

Cables: 
*Norse Audio* Skuld 2 Litz UPOCC HiFiMan cable
*Belden* 1800F Balanced interconnects


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't require "great" sound, which is a highly subjective concept anyway.

However, after purchasing several Toscanini conducted sets of the Beethoven 9 Symphonies from the great 1939 cycle with the NBC Symphony, promising "miraculously restored sound", I've been disappointed. The recordings sound like they were done in a phone booth. Almost unlistenable.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

jegreenwood said:


> I discovered Advent loudspeakers and (now sort of classic)


That's what I used. New Advent. They were about $100 each in 1979 and sounded GREAT. I still have them (and my Yahama component system) but suspect they must be dry rotted or something. Haven't played them since the mid 1990s.


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## Strange Magic (Sep 14, 2015)

I have a simple system with a Denon amplifier/receiver and a pair of Boston Acoustic speakers. It fills the room nicely with sound, but like many others with spouses or Significant Others, I do most of my listening with headphones, as filling the home with glorious music seems to be an idea that is not universally loved.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2016)

Here's mine:

DALI Epicon 2 speakers 
SVS SB13 Ultra sub
PrimaLuna Premium Dialogue HP tube integrated amp
Esoteric K-03 SACD player
Oppo 105 Blu-ray player
VPI Scout 1.1 turntable/Ortofon 2M Black cartridge
Musical Surroundings Nova II phono stage
Audeze LCD-XC headphones
Nordost, Audio Analysis interconnects; Kimber Kable speaker cables


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## jegreenwood (Dec 25, 2015)

One interesting example (IMO) of the advantage of great sound. For many years I've had the Bilson/Gardiner Mozart cycle, but I have never been able to enjoy it as the fortepiano is unable to compete with the orchestra. I've thought of getting rid of it on more than one occasion, but I never did. Recently I played it for the first time in a while on my main system where I had recently improved my DAC. Nothing super fancy - a TEAC UD-501 streaming from a Squeezebox (lossless of course). The rest of my electronics are from Ayre and my speakers are PSB Synchrony 2s. All of a sudden the fortepiano stood out against the orchestra, not in volume, but in space, and for the first time the performances worked.


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## juliante (Jun 7, 2013)

I am seeking total immersion generally and for me the better the sound the better the experience. Also, only recently Mahler is clicking with me and a key reason is that I has had some time alone at home so have been playi g his work on my stereo (which is quite a good one). It turns out my car stereo was not doing the first movement of his second symphony justice - e.g. those gorgeous deep strings were just not having the same impact at all on the car stereo. Also with chamber music - you want the rich sounds of tbe cello coming through, you don't necessarily get this on average systems. Etc etc.


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

KenOC said:


> I am open to correction, but believe that a FLAC file (decoded) has exactly the same musical information as the original CD track and should sound identical on any equipment. For my own aging ears, a 256K VBR MP3 file also sounds the same, so I am not terribly concerned.


The decoded result is the same and can be verified. This, of course, assumes that the FLAC file was generated from a CD or the master used for the CD.


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## Boldertism (May 21, 2015)

I have a modest set-up, at my desk I have a FiiO E10K and HD598s. When not at my desk I use a FiiO X1 paired with a FiiO A3(E11K) and the HD598s. The whole thing cost under $450, and I'm satisfied for the time being. Definitely better than what I used to listen with, a pair of $10 computer speakers from Wal mart.


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## sweetviolin (Jun 21, 2015)

Not so important. The emotions I get is the same.


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## Johnhanks (Feb 21, 2016)

drnlaw said:


> Now I'm in my 60s, my kids are grown, I'm a grandpa, and I find that YouTube recordings played through my computer speakers works just fine for all but the most dynamic stuff out there.


Yes, it's dynamics that make the difference. As a fellow 60+ grandad I'll now settle for Youtube into a decent set of headphones (Bowers & Wilkins P7 in my case) for most purposes, but when dynamic range is a critical factor it's back to CDs and a good pair of speakers.


drnlaw said:


> Does it make a difference what music you're playing? Can you live with Chopin through a Walmart special, but have to hear Mahler and Shostakovich through only the best systems?


It may be a personal quirk, but I find piano music is more marred than most other genres by poor reproduction.


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

There's a connection between emotional involvement in music and audio quality coming from your system. With poor quality systems, narrow frequency response and high distortion causes listener fatigue and headaches. But audiophiles often go to the other extreme wasting much money, and I suspect many listen to their "equipment" and not the music. Nevertheless, a nice balance of involving, high quality audio can draw you in much further on a managable budget.


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## gardibolt (May 22, 2015)

I have gotten more accepting of marginal sound since getting deeply into Wagner; most great Wagner casts are in recordings that are 50+ years old, so there's a definite tradeoff--hearing spectacular performances by the ilk of Melchior, Traubel, Varnary etc. but in less that spectacular audio. Even so, there are folks (like Pristine Classical) who are able to polish them up to a better audio quality than I would have expected. 

Even then I was never into the whole audiophile tube and green markers business.


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## drnlaw (Jan 27, 2016)

Florestan said:


> That's what I used. New Advent. They were about $100 each in 1979 and sounded GREAT. I still have them (and my Yahama component system) but suspect they must be dry rotted or something. Haven't played them since the mid 1990s.


For the price, Advents had the best sound you could get in the 1970s. Nothing else in that price range came close.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

drnlaw said:


> For the price, Advents had the best sound you could get in the 1970s. Nothing else in that price range came close.


And that Yahama amp was pumping 65 watts per channel into them. I was about 19 years old and living in a 10x12 second floor room. It really filled the room. Would crank out everything from Bach Toccata and Fuge on organ to Ted Nugent's chainsaw rock! Probably drove my mother nuts!


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## nbergeron (Dec 30, 2015)

I love my AKG K240 but that's about as far as I care to (or am able to, I'm a student after all) take the whole audiophile thing. As long as the frequencies are clear and level I'm a satisfied listener.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm really content with 128kbps (heck I still have old music files with 64kbps quality that are quite enjoyable). I'm satisfied with 192-256 kbps quality. Flac is too much for me. Consider this fact that I can hear the sound of a moving train from 1 km distance!


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

KenOC said:


> I am open to correction, but believe that a FLAC file (decoded) has exactly the same musical information as the original CD track and should sound identical on any equipment. For my own aging ears, a 256K VBR MP3 file also sounds the same, so I am not terribly concerned.


Can you remind me how old are you?
I'm 28.


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## Badinerie (May 3, 2008)

From when I was 16 I have always used Hi Fi Separates. Not high end gear but good enough to lower my tolerance to rubbish systems or music thats sampled to jiggery!


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> Can you remind me how old are you?
> I'm 28.


My age is a non-integral multiple of yours.

A better hint: My age has the same prime factors as yours with the exception of one factor that is odd rather than even and is not three. That should give you the answer.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> I'm really content with 128kbps (heck I still have old music files with 64kbps quality that are quite enjoyable). I'm satisfied with 192-256 kbps quality. Flac is too much for me. Consider this fact that I can hear the sound of a moving train from 1 km distance!


I am using 128 kbps MP3 files and the sound is fine in my earbud and in the car. Car has basic 2001 year CD player. When I was doing wma files (Microsoft) at 128 they were fine too but we ripped some piano sonatas into 64 kbps wma and they sounded a bit funky, like you could tell that the bit rate was getting too small.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

I can tolerate quite a lot when it comes to solo piano recordings, but for orchestral music I want it to sound as good as possible.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My hearing is super-good and sensitive. Blasting music, even though it's classical music, gives me a headache. Very loud music to me is NOISE!


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2016)

KenOC said:


> My age is a non-integral multiple of yours.
> 
> A better hint: My age has the same prime factors as yours with the exception of one factor that is odd rather than even and is not three. That should give you the answer.


So you're twelvtysix then.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

It is very important to me!

There is a big difference, to me, between hearing the music reproduced reasonably well, and the kind of reproduction great equipment can achieve.

And through the right combination of vintage, used recently produced, new and a bit of DIY, you'd be surprised how inexpensively truly high end can be. 

For example, I recently bought a pair of vintage Magnepan MG3a speakers for under $400. With a bit of work and easy crossover component upgrades, I have a pair of speakers that rival speakers of at least $5000. Driven by some vintage amps, a DIY tube preamp kit (from tubenirvana.com), a recent CD player, a brand new DAC, and I have a system that is a small fraction of what a comparable system would cost new.

Sure any decent equipment can produce most of the frequency spectrum, with reasonable dynamic range, and reasonable detail. If one is not aware of what high end audio is capable of, they would not even know what they are missing.

On my system (and other high end systems), the amount of information I am hearing in comparison to "big box" store equipment or computer audio, is easily detectable, without any effort.

I can hear the page turning of musical scores in the back of the orchestra, chairs moving, breaths from wind players (not just the notes they are playing), and other similar things. Plus, every instrument in the orchestra is completely discernible from others, and in their correct space within the soundstage. When a triangle is struck in the percussion section, I can hear the complete attack and decay of the instrument, and it is coming from exactly where it should be, i.e., the distance back in the soundstage.

All this helps me get sucked into the performance much more than just reasonable reproduction does.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Simon Moon said:


> For example, I recently bought a pair of vintage Magnepan MG3a speakers for under $400.


I used to own a pair of Magnepan speakers in the 80s and early 90s. I got tired of always having to build my living room furniture around them because they had to be placed perfectly to get the most enjoyment from them. They had to be the right distance from the back wall and your seating had to be the right distance from the speaker. I did enjoy the way they sounded though especially that you not only heard clearly defined left and right separation but also up and down the speakers. Truly unique speakers but I never regretted switching to the B&W DM 604 speakers and they have served me very well until my recent switch over to all Klipsch Reference series speakers.

Kevin


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Simon Moon said:


> It is very important to me!
> If one is not aware of what high end audio is capable of, they would not even know what they are missing.


Very true. I am listening on a basic 2001 Ford automotive CD player and it sounds ok, but we had another vehicle for a couple years I bought used and the previous owner had put in a decent head unit. The sound was remarkably better. Even simpler, I was running a cheap MP3 player through my 1995 ford radio (no CD player) with one of those gadgets that uses an unused frequency to broadcast back into the radio. Was okay, but when i found an old 100 watt Radio Shack amp at a garage sale for $2 and hooked it up to that MP3 player, the sound was 10 times better, and still using the stock 5x7 speakers. So in my opinion (and maybe moreso with my old tired ears) power is the key. Yeah, you need decent frequency response but without power it just gets really muddy in the bottom end.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

It is not so important to me, except when I listen to styles/genres such as electroacoustic, drone, noise and others which actually focus on the nature of sound itself.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Kevin Pearson said:


> I used to own a pair of Magnepan speakers in the 80s and early 90s. I got tired of always having to build my living room furniture around them because they had to be placed perfectly to get the most enjoyment from them. They had to be the right distance from the back wall and your seating had to be the right distance from the speaker. I did enjoy the way they sounded though especially that you not only heard clearly defined left and right separation but also up and down the speakers. Truly unique speakers but I never regretted switching to the B&W DM 604 speakers and they have served me very well until my recent switch over to all Klipsch Reference series speakers.
> 
> Kevin


I mentioned the Maggies just as an example of the high quality audio that can be found on the used market for little money, if one is diligent.

As with all speakers, even at the extreme high end, they are all a collection of compromises.



> It is not so important to me, except when I listen to styles/genres such as electroacoustic, drone, noise and others which actually focus on the nature of sound itself.


Sorry, but this does not make sense to me.

Acoustic instruments are the most important to reproduce right. For me, an inaccurately reproduced piano, violin, flute, etc, etc, takes me right out of the performance.

With the other types of music you mention, there is no known baseline to compare to. You have no idea whether the electronic instrument you are hearing sounds like it sounded to the artist and the engineer, since there is so much variation among them.

You may like the sound you are hearing, but how can you tell if it is an accurate representation of what the artist recorded?

I've heard pianos, violins, flutes, cellos, etc, enough live, to know what they are supposed to sound like. If they are not reproduced accurately, or somewhat close, the system is not "hi-fi", by definition.


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## atsizat (Sep 14, 2015)

The most I seek in a piece of music is the sadness.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Simon Moon said:


> Sorry, but this does not make sense to me.
> 
> Acoustic instruments are the most important to reproduce right. For me, an inaccurately reproduced piano, violin, flute, etc, etc, takes me right out of the performance.
> 
> ...


First off, I admit I have never heard high end audio, so possibly I don't know what I miss. 
However, I've been to concerts, so I know what the "ideal" sounds like. As close as high end can get to that, I still don't think it's worth the money/trouble.

I am attracted to musical ideas, not to sonic qualities (as long as they are decent enough to not alter my perception of musical ideas).

Regarding the comparison between acoustic / non acoustic instruments, what you say is true and it is te reason why I stand by my view. Since there is no known baseline, I need to trust the fidelity of the system to be sure that the amped prepared piano producing minimalistic noises, with otherwise barely audible variations of pitch, sounds like its composer wanted to.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

I listen a lot on a single earbud and it is not a high end earbud, not even a middle range earbud. My main criteria for an earbud is good bass. An advantage of this is that older recordings that do not have the recording sound quality of newer works do not sound so bad on the earbud as they would on a high end stereo. Part of this may be that the better works don't sound as good as they could and the worse recordings don't sound as bad as they could. So the differential between them is smaller on an earbud than on an high end system.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I like good headphones when I can get them. Now that I live in my car on a very tight budget, great speakers are out of the question. Most of the time now I listen to music accompanied by road noise. I suppose Cage would approve. But those evenings when my wife has gone to sleep and I get to listen to Cage (or whoever) without road noise in my pretty decent headphones are pretty good times.


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## Kevin Pearson (Aug 14, 2009)

Simon Moon said:


> I mentioned the Maggies just as an example of the high quality audio that can be found on the used market for little money, if one is diligent.
> 
> As with all speakers, even at the extreme high end, they are all a collection of compromises.


Simon, I wasn't criticizing your choice of Magnepans only telling you of my experience with them. They are are so sensitive to room placement that for me it got to be a drag. Especially because when we owned them we seemed to move a lot. Now that I'm more stable that might not be as much of an issue.


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## Klassic (Dec 19, 2015)

Vox tells the story of his imprisonment deep in Siberia, he was only able to hear Beethoven through the most terrible audio devices, often with his ear pressed up against a concrete wall. After he gained his freedom he said the one thing he never skimped on was good speakers.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

What I've discovered since I entered the world of high(ish)-end heaphone gear is that there are a very significant number of recordings (primarily chamber music) that sound incredibly vivid and lifelike on my headphone rig that sound dull and lacking detail on my speaker rig while there are many other recordings (primarily works for large forces ie. Mahler symphonies, operas, Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, etc.) that can only be properly appreciated on the speaker rig. 

So I would say that you have to be able to swing both ways depending on the type of music and the quality of the recorded sound.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

It seems that headphones are better audio delivery devices than speakers.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

Florestan said:


> It seems that headphones are better audio delivery devices than speakers.


It's interesting you think so being an "operaholic". Even though you get higher resolution and detail along with less distortion via headphones, there's no substitute, IMO, for the right speakers mated with the right room together with a tight, accurate subwoofer for reproducing the spatial characteristics of a theater or large auditorium in music such as opera or large scale orchestral and/or choral pieces.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Andolink said:


> It's interesting you think so being an "operaholic". Even though you get higher resolution and detail along with less distortion via headphones, there's no substitute, IMO, for the right speakers mated with the right room together with a tight, accurate subwoofer for reproducing the spatial characteristics of a theater or large auditorium in music such as opera or large scale orchestral and/or choral pieces.


Yes the audio system you describe is better, but for the money and the effort and space utilization (and especially lack of dedicated space), headphones are the best option.


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## Arsakes (Feb 20, 2012)

@KenOC, that formula doesn't ring a bell! I graduated from High School 11 years ago and my uni learning stuff were mostly readable and theoretical, completely far from mathematics! At best I still calculate with these very good: + - * /



Florestan said:


> It seems that headphones are better audio delivery devices than speakers.


Most current speakers are produced for Dubstep and bass reasons.. even some headphones too sadly. And there is also noises around that can affect the sound and annoy you.

My 9-10 years old 2.1 Logitech speaker still rocks in playing quality music with details (Classic Music, Jazz etc.) despite it only has 32 Watt power.


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Arsakes said:


> Most current speakers are produced for Dubstep and bass reasons.. even some headphones too sadly.
> 
> My 9-10 years old 2.1 Logitech speaker still rocks in playing quality music with details (Classic Music, Jazz etc.) despite it only has 32 Watt power.


So producing speakers for Dubstep (what is that????) and bass is an unfortunate case of catering to the masses. I have the Logitech Z313 on my computer and they are okay for the $30 I paid, but yours look like a much better system:


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

Florestan said:


> Dubstep (what is that????)


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## Richard8655 (Feb 19, 2016)

Florestan said:


> It seems that headphones are better audio delivery devices than speakers.


I'm not so sure about this. Headphones give immediacy directly into the ear, but in my opinion don't allow the sound to "breath" the way speakers in a room do. Although headphones give near perfection in delivery in an analytical way, I miss the ambience and spaciousness of sound a room provides from speakers.


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## gHeadphone (Mar 30, 2015)

Though its a matter of opinion it seems to my ears that you can get a better sound per $ using headphones compared to speakers generally (1,000 will get an amazing sound on your ears in headphones).

Anyway, good sound for me is important unless the music is so good that its not!


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## SixFootScowl (Oct 17, 2011)

Stavrogin said:


>


Don't know what to say about it but that it is very strange and has a feeling of impending doom.


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## Stavrogin (Apr 20, 2014)

"Very strange" can be a flattering attribute for any piece of music 
Also the sheer capability to convey a precise feeling is positive (especially considering the educated recipient), I guess?


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## Muse Wanderer (Feb 16, 2014)

Great music is much more important than great sound.

But then, the music I love deserves to be heard from a good hifi sound system.

It took me a few years to get to my main rig including speakers (Monitor Audio GX100), headphones (Sennheiser HD800S), ear monitors (etymotics HF2), amplifiers (Schiit Ragnarok) and DAC (Schiit Yggdrasil).










I love having a neutral uncoloured flat sound in order for the equipment to disappear and I can just focus on the music. My speakers do just that, whilst the HD800S are still coloured with recessed midrange but good soundstage for headphones.

My aim is to reproduce the gold standard, live performance of acoustic music, in my living room. I feel I am close to that ideal after spending a moderate amount (good systems don't need to break the bank). Speakers are the best medium to achieve this unveiled production and headphones complement them for a good listen at 11pm.

Just now, I am listening to Handel's Ariodante by Minkowski and it is so intense, so absorbing. The timbre, soundstage, resolution, imaging and transient response projected in front of me by the speakers is so exhilirating. As I listen to von Otter's Scherza Infida, I can feel every single nasal breath before she starts her vocal, her lines are immersive and the dynamics from soft to forte are engaging. The basoon weeps his tune wih melancholic effect. It is sublime.

Was it worth the investment?

You bet! 
(YMMV, of course)


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