# A spot of help on deciding which versions of Wagner's operas to get.



## archaicprose (May 14, 2013)

I'm still getting my feet wet with Wagner and, to be honest, opera in general, but I like enough of what I've heard to dive in. What I'm most interested in hearing at this stage are renditions as close as possible to what Wagner would have intended. At first, I thought this sort of thing would be really subjective and, you know, _who really knows_, but I've read that some conductors would flat out ignore specific directions in the score to make superficial changes; or that some would do well but in a way that doesn't make for _good Wagner conducting_. I figure if this is true then it's possible for the opposite to exist as well.

With that in mind, audio quality is not that big a deal to me if the performance is in line. Stereo or mono doesn't matter. And, as a deadhead/bootleg enthusiast, I have sat through and enjoyed some truly gnarly sounding stuff. I heard samples from a Tristan und Isolde that most apparently find unlistenable and they sounded fine to me.


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## Unbennant (May 12, 2013)

My favourite opera (and recording) of Wagner is Solti with Domingo as Lohengrin and Fischer-Dieskau as the Heerrufer. As far as DVDs go, Levine at the MET with Peter Hofmann as Lohengrin.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

archaicprose said:


> I'm still getting my feet wet with Wagner and, to be honest, opera in general, but I like enough of what I've heard to dive in. What I'm most interested in hearing at this stage are renditions as close as possible to what Wagner would have intended. At first, I thought this sort of thing would be really subjective and, you know, _who really knows_, but I've read that some conductors would flat out ignore specific directions in the score to make superficial changes; or that some would do well but in a way that doesn't make for _good Wagner conducting_. I figure if this is true then it's possible for the opposite to exist as well.
> 
> With that in mind, audio quality is not that big a deal to me if the performance is in line. Stereo or mono doesn't matter. And, as a deadhead/bootleg enthusiast, I have sat through and enjoyed some truly gnarly sounding stuff. I heard samples from a Tristan und Isolde that most apparently find unlistenable and they sounded fine to me.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)




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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

There's a long and detailed discussion of the Wagner DVDs here.


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)




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## archaicprose (May 14, 2013)

Why these in particular? Solti's Ring (Rheingold) is actually one that I read the complaints about that prompted me to make this topic.

I'm still looking into these and I've managed to get my hands on a couple of them. The Lohengrin/Kempe I ordered came with two Disc 2s and no Disc 3. I'm slightly bummed about it.



ahammel said:


> There's a long and detailed discussion of the Wagner DVDs here.


Thanks for this, by the way. DVDs are generally a _bit_ out of my price range at the moment but this will definitely come in handy in the future.


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## dionisio (Jul 30, 2012)

archaicprose said:


> Why these in particular? Solti's Ring (Rheingold) is actually one that I read the complaints about that prompted me to make this topic.
> 
> I'm still looking into these and I've managed to get my hands on a couple of them. The Lohengrin/Kempe I ordered came with two Disc 2s and no Disc 3. I'm slightly bummed about it.
> 
> Thanks for this, by the way. DVDs are generally a _bit_ out of my price range at the moment but this will definitely come in handy in the future.


Solti's Ring is the first complete recording of the Ring in studio. It's almost cannonical. Every Ring is somehow compared to Solti. I also enjoy Boulez's, Karajan's and Barenboim's. Furtwangler's i've heard only bits and i don't have the album (we can't have everything, right  ). I've seen also, in the internet, Mutti's Die Walkure. Mutti is one of my favourite conductors. His Verdi and Mozart operas are wonderful and i identify myself with Mutti's approach to Wagner.

For Lohegrin, Kempe is the best, in my opinion. All the _tempi_ are right to me, Fischer-Diskau is superb as Jess Thomas too.

For Parsifal: Knappertsbuch and/or Karajan's. Enough said.

Die Meistersinger: Raphael Kubelitz:

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Die-Meistersinger-von-Nürnberg/dp/B0000ARNET

Tristan unde Isolde: Karl Bohm's second recording. There's Nilsson, Windgassen and Ludwig. Try to beat that 

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Trista...90109&sr=1-1&keywords=tristan+und+isolde+bohm


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## SilenceIsGolden (May 5, 2013)

archaicprose said:


> Why these in particular? Solti's Ring (Rheingold) is actually one that I read the complaints about that prompted me to make this topic.


John Culshaw, the producer of Solti's Ring, was certainly striving for a dynamic, aurally dramatic experience that met all of Wagner's intentions as a dramatist if not always following his exact written instructions in the score. So there are sound effects that are added as if you are actually witnessing a performance on stage, actual anvils are used in the descent to Nibelheim scene, and I suppose most controversially it uses a hammer strike in the scene where Donner summons the storm rather the triangle that Wagner asks for. In my opinion it's incredibly exciting, and I guess you have to ask yourself if you think Wagner's dramatic intentions ultimately justify the move. On the upside, Solti's Ring employs an actual steerhorn specially made for his Gotterdammerung like Wagner intended, rather than substituting in a trombone. The resulting call of the vassals is in my opinion worth the purchase of Solti's Ring all by itself.

If you're looking for a recording that features a more traditional reading of the score, you might want to think about picking up another Ring. I'd probably suggest Marek Janowski's as a good counterpoint to the Solti.

As for my other choices, I generally recommended those recordings which I felt featured the best conducting and overall shaping of the music. So for example, while Kubelik's Meistersinger features the best singing cast in my opinion, in Karajan's Meistersinger the orchestral sound is unbeatable. It's absolutely radiant. Or while Bohm's Tristan is a must to hear for Nilsson's Isolde, Furtwangler's pacing in his recording is mesmerizing.


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## bigshot (Nov 22, 2011)

Speeds in Wagner's time were very fast by today's standards. Probably Bohm's Ring and Tristan would be good representatives of what Wagner would have heard. The quality of singing on Bohm's performances is probably a lot better than in Wagner's day though.

I don't know that going the "historical performance" route is necessarily the best in this kind of music. I would just look for good solid performances.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

You might look here for discussions on the various recordings of Wagner's operas:

http://www.wagneropera.net/Recommendations/Recommendations-2008.htm

Honestly, if you become a Wagner aficionado you will probably want several different recordings of the major works with the realization that there is no single "definitive" recording. The strongest recordings of The Ring include:

Joseph Keilberth Live at Bayreuth 1955 (Testament)
Clemens Krauss Live at Bayreuth 1953
Hans Knappertsbusch Live at Bayreuth 1956
Karl Bohm Live at Bayreuth 1966/67
Wilhelm Furtwangler Live at La Scala 1950
Wilhelm Furtwangler Live RIA Italian Radio 1953
Sir Georg Solti (studio)
Herbert von Karajan (studio)
Marek Janowski (studio)

I would suggest that the live recordings really aren't the ideal introduction to Wagner's Ring... in spite of the fact that they boast of the finest casts. I would really go with one of the studio recordings. Solti captures the grandeur/bombast of Wagner... whereas Karajan approaches the work in a more intimate/chamber-like manner. Janowski is quite fine... and commonly an incredible bargain.

For Tristan und Isolde my favorite is Karajan's 1972 recording with the Berlin Philharmonic which conveys an almost icy eroticism and perfection. Furtwangler's recording is an equally brilliant and icon recording.

For Parsifal my favorite is again Karajan (the first opera recording I ever heard in total) but Knappertsbusch recording is equally... if not more iconic.


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