# I've grown sick of Beethoven.



## EarthBoundRules

The first piece that got me into classical music was Beethoven's _Ninth Symphony_. It was greater than anything I had heard before and moved me on an extreme level. I soon began to explore his other symphonies, then his piano concertos, sonatas and string quartets. I knew every symphony off by heart and I listened to the _9th_ weekly, probably 50 times in the first year after discovering it.

This was one and a half years ago, and since then my range of composers has grown exponentially. Even though I have strayed past my first love in music, I've always placed him on the highest pedestal. However, now that I listen to all those pieces I used to love a long time ago, they do nothing for me anymore.  All of his pieces seem to be made of platitudes, and aren't relatable to me at all.  The only one I still like is his _Eroica Symphony_. Why? 

Maybe this is the way enjoying music is supposed to be, where you have waves of passion for certain composers and styles but then move on, but I find it very strange and upsetting that my once favourite composer now sounds like a phony show-off. Any similar experiences or help on how to make this music fresh again are certainly appreciated.


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## elgar's ghost

I suppose the obvious guess is that you've done it to death, but I'm not blaming you as I'm sure other people do the same yet never tire - different tolerance thresholds, maybe. What happened to you with Beethoven happened to me with certain rock bands when I was a teenager but thankfully I haven't hit that brick wall with classical yet.


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## Ukko

EarthBoundRules said:


> [...]
> Maybe this is the way enjoying music is supposed to be, where you have waves of passion for certain composers and styles but then move on, but I find it very strange and upsetting that my once favourite composer now sounds like a phony show-off. Any similar experiences or help on how to make this music fresh again are certainly appreciated.


No way to make it 'fresh' again. Far as I know, the only way to _appreciate/enjoy_ the music again is to _pay attention_. I suspect that you have allowed your interpretations of the music to fall into ruts. You do no instrumental music service by thinking about it while listening. So _stop_ thinking about it and pay attention! It's easier than Zen.

:tiphat:


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## superhorn

I sometimes get a bit tired of listening to the same old Beethoven works, but I've been listening to them for more than 40 years isnce I was a teenager ! But there's so much else you can hear ,so don't worry. 
You could also try some of Beethoven's lesser-known works, such as the Mass in C (more modest than the Missa Solemnis), the triple concerto, the choral fantasia, or even the silly but endearing Wellington's Victory. 
If you're tired of Beethoven, are you familiar with the symphonies of Nielsen, Wilhelm Stenhammar, Paul Dukas, Nikolai Myaskovsky, Gheorghe Enescu, the first six of Dvorak, or those of Elgar, Vaughan Williams, Prokofiev, Karol Szymanowski, Copland,
Ives, William Schuman, Walter Piston, Zdenek Fibich, Mily Balakirev, Franz Berwald, Arnold Bax,, Max Bruch, Martinu, Arthur Honegger, Alberic Magnard, William Walton, etc? Once you've heard these and others, you can return refreshed to the music of Beethoven.


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## Polednice

I used to love Beethoven too. Then I discovered Brahms.


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## presto

I haven’t let myself get sick and tied of any of the core repertoire.
I don’t have any recordings of the Beethoven symphonies simply because they’re played so much on the radio and in the concert hall, I know and love these works so well it would be overload to have them on CD.
I much rather hear them occasionally and keep them fresh.


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## bigshot

The problem is you and the way you listen to music, not the music itself. Say your favorite meal was BBQ chicken. How long would you like BBQ chicken if you ate it at every meal? Getting tired of great music is a sign that you need more variety. Go out and get some new music of a totally different type.

My music library contains a ton of classical and opera, but it also includes all kinds of jazz, the blues, country western, folk and bluegrass, r&b and jump blues, early rock n roll, pop vocals, latin music, easy listening and pop music from the sixties. I keep mixing all this stuff up and I never get bored or tired of any kind of music. On the contrary, I'm always excited about the possibilities of new music and I can't wait to carve out the time to listen.

I can still listen to Beethoven's 5th and be amazed at its absolute structural perfection. I would be sad if I abused it and wasn't able to bring myself to listen to it any more. That would be like not liking ice cream or t bone steak or bacon and eggs any more.


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## Guest

First of all, you should be congratulated for sinking so deeply into Beethoven. Too many people buy so much stuff that they're lucky if they listen to it once a year. Some people have dozens of purchased disks they haven't even listened to. You have made a deep connection with your music which is commendable.

Having said that, there's almost nothing you can do now to regain your initial enthusiasm for Beethoven. Your brain is telling you it wants different kinds of stimulus.

But fear not, you still love Beethoven at some level. From time to time when you want comfort you can return to Beethoven and find an old friend. You may go years or even decades without listening to him, then put him on later and be blown away.

I personally find LvB to be very refreshing when I haven't heard him for three months or so. But everyone's different.

Fear not and enjoy the new pastures you will find.


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## Ukko

[re _bigshot_'s post]

/\ Rationing exposure to Beethoven's symphonies is a tactic I have used for decades. Not more than once a year. And like you I still get a charge from the 5th, and relish the 8th... the concertos (all of them except the transcription) still please me... the string quartets are still a wonderful journey when heard in order...

I think Beethoven's music has made me a more thoughtful, better person... even more amazing than I would have been otherwise.


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## Very Senior Member

EarthBoundRules said:


> ... I find it very strange and upsetting that my once favourite composer now sounds like a phony show-off. Any similar experiences or help on how to make this music fresh again are certainly appreciated.


What you describe sounds pretty normal to me. It's nice to hear at last from an ex-Beethoven-fan-boy.


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## aphyrodite

The first classical piece I've listen to was by Beethoven, but the one who made me hooked to classical music is Chopin.


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## peeyaj

I used to like Beethoveen, then I discovered *Schubert.*


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## thetrout

peeyaj said:


> I used to like Beethoveen, then I discovered *Schubert.*


Same with me.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I used to like Beethoven. But then I discovered *Ligeti* and Clara Schumann and Louise Farrenc and Wagner and Stockhausen (who is in fact an alien) and Carter and John Adams and CPE Bach and Monteverdi and Webern and Schubert and Schnittke and Salieri and Giuliani and Mozart and Sofia Gubaidulina and Pärt and George Crumb and Steve Reich and Brett Dean and  Anthony Pateras etc.

But I still listen to Beethoven once every few years or something like that.


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## science

There is so much music in the world; no reason to listen to anything so much that you get "sick" of it. But personally, I listen to Beethoven's symphonies 2-3 times a year, and to #5 more often, and I just can't imagine getting sick of them.


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## science

Keeping with the new meme, I used to like Beethoven, but then I discovered Biber.


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## Itullian

Jethro Tull for a break


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## larifari

EarthBoundRules said:


> The first piece that got me into classical music was Beethoven's _Ninth Symphony_. It was greater than anything I had heard before and moved me on an extreme level. I soon began to explore his other symphonies, then his piano concertos, sonatas and string quartets. I knew every symphony off by heart and I listened to the _9th_ weekly, probably 50 times in the first year after discovering it.
> 
> This was one and a half years ago, and since then my range of composers has grown exponentially. Even though I have strayed past my first love in music, I've always placed him on the highest pedestal. However, now that I listen to all those pieces I used to love a long time ago, they do nothing for me anymore.  All of his pieces seem to be made of platitudes, and aren't relatable to me at all.  The only one I still like is his _Eroica Symphony_. Why?
> 
> Maybe this is the way enjoying music is supposed to be, where you have waves of passion for certain composers and styles but then move on, but I find it very strange and upsetting that my once favourite composer now sounds like a phony show-off. Any similar experiences or help on how to make this music fresh again are certainly appreciated.


I am willing to bet that if you heard something by Beethoven - other than the 9th or Eroica, of course - and did not know that you are listening to Beethoven, you would not have a clue what you are listening to.

People never get tired of eating bread. True classical music lovers never get tired listening to Beethoven.


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## Kopachris

Keeping with the new meme, I used to like Beethoven, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

To be honest, I've always enjoyed B's chamber works far more than his symphonies. His symphonies just don't do it for me except in certain circumstances. However, I have never in five years tired of Tchaikovsky's symphonies (especially the fourth, which I have, on average, listened to at least weekly), though people will complain about him "wearing his heart on his shoulder."


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I used to like Beethoven. But then I discovered *Ligeti* and Clara Schumann and Louise Farrenc and Wagner and Stockhausen (who is in fact an alien) and Carter and John Adams and CPE Bach and Monteverdi and Webern and Schubert and Schnittke and Salieri and Giuliani and Mozart and Sofia Gubaidulina and Pärt and George Crumb and Steve Reich and Brett Dean and  Anthony Pateras etc.
> 
> But I still listen to Beethoven once every few years or something like that.


Goodness gracious I forgot Michael Nyman!


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## Itullian

I really like Messiaen.


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## wiganwarrior

*It's about your own development.*



EarthBoundRules said:


> The first piece that got me into classical music was Beethoven's _Ninth Symphony_. It was greater than anything I had heard before and moved me on an extreme level. I soon began to explore his other symphonies, then his piano concertos, sonatas and string quartets. I knew every symphony off by heart and I listened to the _9th_ weekly, probably 50 times in the first year after discovering it.
> 
> This was one and a half years ago, and since then my range of composers has grown exponentially. Even though I have strayed past my first love in music, I've always placed him on the highest pedestal. However, now that I listen to all those pieces I used to love a long time ago, they do nothing for me anymore.  All of his pieces seem to be made of platitudes, and aren't relatable to me at all.  The only one I still like is his _Eroica Symphony_. Why?
> 
> Maybe this is the way enjoying music is supposed to be, where you have waves of passion for certain composers and styles but then move on, but I find it very strange and upsetting that my once favourite composer now sounds like a phony show-off. Any similar experiences or help on how to make this music fresh again are certainly appreciated.


I don't think you can MAKE it fresh again - it can't be forced. Like most conductors, soloists etc who say they always find something new in Beethoven (or any other composer for that matter) I think it is our reaction to the music in terms of our own development that is key. The best example I can think off, of the cuff, is Mahler's Kindertotenlieder (Songs on the death of children). When I first listened to this, at age 15, I was very moved, but I didn't have children then. Having children has made me relate to this music in a different, probably much deeper, way. For those people who have actually lost a child I believe the connection would be even greater. Sorry to chose such a depressing scenario to illustrate the point, but it is very much how we change which deeply affects our relationship to a particular piece of music.
I think if I listened to Beethoven 9 every week for a year I might not appreciate it as much because I haven't changed much over that time. The pure unadulterated joy of Beethoven 7 was there when I passed my GCSE'S, when I got married, when I had my children etc but, in each case in a different and, may I say, a more meaningful way- and the beautiful thing is I KNOW is that it will be there again when, hopefully, I have grandchildren. So, be patient. The music of Beethoven will come back to you,


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## Trout

thetrout said:


> Same with me.


Welcome! Nice username.


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## Polednice

larifari said:


> People never get tired of eating bread. True classical music lovers never get tired listening to Beethoven.


Yeah, and all the fakes should be sent to the gas chambers.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Polednice said:


> Yeah, and all the fakes should be sent to the gas chambers.


There are also fakes who _only_ listen to Beethoven too you know.


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## Kopachris

larifari said:


> People never get tired of eating bread. True classical music lovers never get tired listening to Beethoven.


People never get tired of eating bread?


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## science

Kopachris said:


> People never get tired of eating bread?


_True_ people don't.


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## Kopachris

science said:


> _True_ people don't.


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## hespdelk

Forcing it to be fresh is an unlikely task.. but in my experience these things go in cycles. Now you are tired of it, or are subconsciously focused on other aspects of music whose needs are met more fully by different composers. But the passion will return - it could either simply be the working of time, when returning to a work after a long hiatus lets you almost rediscover it anew. Or it could be from hearing a new performance of it that shows you new facets of the music you hadn't noticed during your first exploration. The renewed connection with the music could be the same as before, but more likely deeper and even more fulfilling as you will be listening through the added experience of everything you will have heard in between. With truly great music there are so many layers, and one isn't aware of them until they hit you, one by one.

Frustrating as it is right now, I wouldn't be terribly worried for the long run.


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## Taneyev

I don't like, and never liked any of LvB symphonic works. In fact, I don't like any of German or Austrian Symphonic works. Only like Russian, French and Czech symphonics, but all on small quantities. But I've never tired of chamber.


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## Ukko

Odnoposoff said:


> I don't like, and never liked any of LvB symphonic works. In fact, I don't like any of German or Austrian Symphonic works. Only like Russian, French and Czech symphonics, but all on small quantities. But I've never tired of chamber.


That's an interesting reaction, _Odno_. It reads like prejudice, but the stylistic differences are real.

Are you familiar with Cherubini's Symphony in D? He was an Italian working in France, but...


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## Eviticus

Beethoven's works are not the only treats in the garden of Eden you know... and it sounds like you need to taste new fruits my friend!

Here is one that will never rot. _(just try not to get distracted by the conductor who looks like he's the product of an animation drew on the bottom corners of a text book) _






PS I used to love Beethoven - then discovered Brahms. It was at that point i realised the grass isn't always greener and fell immediately back in love with LvB.


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## neoshredder

Listen to Bach then.


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## EarthBoundRules

Thanks for all your responces, guys.  It seems like I'll probably never like those favourites of mine the same way I once did, but hopefully if I wait a long time and come back to it I'll find something new in them. I'm the kind of person that focuses on a few things and obsesses over them, rather than trying a lot of things (applies to movies, games, music, etc). My new rule is when I feel like I know every note from a piece off by heart, it's time to give it a break for a while. 

Now I'll make it a game to see how long I can squeeze the _Eroica_ out for listening pleasure before I come back with another thread. 

And for Polednice: Beethoven > Brahms :3


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## Couchie

Your next move is into Wagner, who should keep you occupied for 10-20 years. After that, time can be made for other people who also happened to write music.


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## thetrout

Two Trouts - and I though fish-stocks were down through over-fishing!

Sorry, I didn't realise there was another Trout around! I will personalise my signature and what not when I figure everything out.


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## violadude

I'm not sick of Beethoven...but I am sick of crazy Beethoven fanboys that seem to froth at the mouth whenever you suggest that some composer might have written something better than something he wrote.


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## Ukko

violadude said:


> I'm not sick of Beethoven...but I am sick of crazy Beethoven fanboys that seem to froth at the mouth whenever you suggest that some composer might have written something better than something he wrote.


Better than "Rage Over a Lost Penny"? Preposterous!


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## Couchie

violadude said:


> I'm not sick of Beethoven...but I am sick of crazy Beethoven fanboys that seem to froth at the mouth whenever you suggest that some composer might have written something better than something he wrote.


You *will* suffer the delirium of the impassioned delirious. Or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Wagner.


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## Fsharpmajor

larifari said:


> True classical music lovers never get tired listening to Beethoven.


There's a term for this kind of statement--it's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman*


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## Ukko

Fsharpmajor said:


> There's a term for this kind of statement--it's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy:
> 
> *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman*


Excellent. And when asked to define 'true' in the positive sense, the standard response is 'one who doesn't do _xxxx_'. I think that may be a form of circular logic?

There remains the possibility that the instigator of this particular 'no true' hubbub was being mischievous.


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## Polednice

Hilltroll72 said:


> There remains the possibility that the instigator of this particular 'no true' hubbub was being mischievous.


With what little contextual information there is on TC, that does not seem likely.


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## Taneyev

Hilltroll72 said:


> That's an interesting reaction, _Odno_. It reads like prejudice, but the stylistic differences are real.
> 
> Are you familiar with Cherubini's Symphony in D? He was an Italian working in France, but...


No. By him have his magnificent 6 string quartets and quintet. I repeat: I'm not fan of symphonics.


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## poconoron

violadude said:


> I'm not sick of Beethoven...but I am sick of crazy *Beethoven fanboys that seem to froth at the mouth whenever you suggest that some composer might have written something better than something he wrote.*


Well said, and this from a guy (me) who is a huge fan of Beethoven.


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## brianwalker

I feel you OP. 

I've grown sick of certain compositions of Beethoven, mostly from his middle period, the 7th symphony for example, is unbearable for me now. God knows how many years it will be till I return to that work. The thunderstorm lustre of the middle period sonatas have also faded. I still listen to the first movement of the 9th and the scherzo now and then, the first movement of the 6th, the first movement of eroica, the third movement of the fifth. 

Let's not get started on the earlier works (I KNOW this is a cliche, so just don't, OK?).


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## Moscow-Mahler

Sometimes I am sick of the Fifth and the Seventh symphonies...


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## science

I guess if I were a performer forced to play the same old stuff over and over again, I might feel this way... 

But as a mere listener, I can't understand. I haven't heard Beethoven's 5th since February or the 7th since March. Being as there's so much music in the world, why play anything until you're sick of it?


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## aleazk

I think I have not heard a note by Beethoven in years, well, maybe some "ode to joy" ringtone. I used to play some sonatas in the piano, but, now, I think I would need to read them again. Anyway, the other day I was remembering Bach's contrapunctus I from the art of fugue, it was fun, the last time I played the full piece was years ago. So, who knows?


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## powerbooks

I would not use the word "sick" to describe Beethoven's work.

However, you do get the feeling that sometimes some of his work may not fit your particular mood. For example, I found some of his music is very angry, and obviously you don't want to listen to them often.

Personally, I feel Beethoven's music, especially those famous ones, always grab my attention: I can't just take them for granted. If I listen to them, I can't do something else. Thus, if I am reading a paper, obviously, Chopin's Nocturnes may be better suited than Beethoven Sonata 32.


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## Kevin Pearson

powerbooks said:


> I would not use the word "sick" to describe Beethoven's work.
> 
> However, you do get the feeling that sometimes some of his work may not fit your particular mood. For example, I found some of his music is very angry, and obviously you don't want to listen to them often.


Which pieces would you classify as "angry"? I have always found his music as dramatic but I have never really considered it angry but I suppose that's the unique thing about classical music is that it's subject to interpretation.

Kevin


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## powerbooks

Kevin Pearson said:


> Which pieces would you classify as "angry"? I have always found his music as dramatic but I have never really considered it angry but I suppose that's the unique thing about classical music is that it's subject to interpretation.
> 
> Kevin


Symphony 5 first movement, for example.


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## Ukko

Kevin Pearson said:


> Which pieces would you classify as "angry"? I have always found his music as dramatic but I have never really considered it angry but I suppose that's the unique thing about classical music is that it's subject to interpretation.
> 
> Kevin


Well, there's "Rage Over a Lost Penny".

I agree with you, _Kevin_, but misinterpreted emotion is fairly common in 'real life' situations too, if the assistance of body language isn't available. In Internet forums it's pandemic.


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## powerbooks

Hilltroll72 said:


> Well, there's "Rage Over a Lost Penny".
> 
> I agree with you, _Kevin_, but misinterpreted emotion is fairly common in 'real life' situations too, if the assistance of body language isn't available. In Internet forums it's pandemic.


How do you define "misinterpreted"? How do you know what the composers were thinking when they were composing? You are in no better position in judging other people's interpretation.


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## Ukko

powerbooks said:


> How do you define "misinterpreted"? How do you know what the composers were thinking when they were composing? You are in no better position in judging other people's interpretation.


Simple logic, even simpler math. If three people interpret the emotional content of a work three different ways, at least two of them are misinterpreting the composer's intent. There is no requirement for me to 'judge' any of them.

:tiphat:


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## powerbooks

Hilltroll72 said:


> Simple logic, even simpler math. If three people interpret the emotional content of a work three different ways, at least two of them are misinterpreting the composer's intent. There is no requirement for me to 'judge' any of them.
> 
> :tiphat:


All three could be wrong, and I think that is a much likely possibility! 

The point is: if everyone is wrong, there is no need to try to figure out the true intention of the composer. Let's just enjoy what we have learned and feed from the music.

Back to the topic of grown sick, my point was I don't think it is easy to get sick of Beethoven, but rather not as a daily composer.


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## PlaySalieri

This is such a foolish thread. It does not deserve to be 4 pages+


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## bigshot

If someone gets to the point where Beethoven's 9th sounds tired and old, they're doing it wrong. Either they are not listening with their brain turned on, or their musical tastes are limited to the point of being stunted. In either case, a total rethink of how to approach music is in order.


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## Tero

Never was all that big on old Ludwig. Symphonies 6-9 work and I never listen to piano music. I am extremely selective of piano music. Mostly of the less is more variety.


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## bigshot

You shoot make an effort towards more variety instead of less is more. There's a lot you're missing out on.


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## StevenOBrien

If you haven't already, maybe you could try seeking out lectures and films on Beethoven and his music to try and see it from a new perspective. I'd recommend Robert Greenberg's various lectures on his music and life, Andras Schiff on his piano sonatas, Leonard Bernstein's 3rd "Unanswered question" lecture where he talks about the 6th symphony. You could also watch documentaries about his life such as BBC's "The Genius of Beethoven", or even films such as "Immortal Beloved" and even "Copying Beethoven".


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## jani

StevenOBrien said:


> If you haven't already, maybe you could try seeking out lectures and films on Beethoven and his music to try and see it from a new perspective. I'd recommend Robert Greenberg's various lectures on his music and life, Andras Schiff on his piano sonatas, Leonard Bernstein's 3rd "Unanswered question" lecture where he talks about the 6th symphony. You could also watch documentaries about his life such as BBC's "The Genius of Beethoven", or even films such as "Immortal Beloved" and even "Copying Beethoven".


Immortal Beloved is the best Beethoven movie IMO, also i didn't like much about copying Beethoven.


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## jani

You should check out these two videos
In this one Bernstein tries to find out what kinda things/what Beethoven was thinking when he was composing his 5th symphony




Bernstein talking about Beethovens 9th


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## EarthBoundRules

jani said:


> You should check out these two videos
> In this one Bernstein tries to find out what kinda things/what Beethoven was thinking when he was composing his 5th symphony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bernstein talking about Beethovens 9th


Yeah I've seen those as well as The Unanswered Question lectures from Harvard. I love Leonard Bernstein.


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## peeyaj

I don't appreciate LvB music as I did when I started exploring his music.. Schubert, on the other hand...


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## Guest

I've grown sick of Beethoven like I've grown sick of breathing, eating, loving, laughing, crying, living. He bores me like having extraordinary wealth, beauty, magnificent architecture, complex language and a fabulous family. There, I've said it.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

I'm sick of Beethoven just like I'm sick of most things tonal.


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## neoshredder

Yeah I find a lot of music of Beethoven boring. I wish I could enjoy him as much as others have. But his music sounds Romantic just like Brahms and many others. Tiring to the ears.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

neoshredder said:


> Yeah I find a lot of music of Beethoven boring. I wish I could enjoy him as much as others have. But his music sounds Romantic just like Brahms and many others. Tiring to the ears.


Neoshredder, you are brilliant.


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## Guest

You have my profound sympathy for being 'sick' of all things tonal, ComposerOfAvantGarde.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> You have my profound sympathy for being 'sick' of all things tonal, ComposerOfAvantGarde.


Thanks, but I don't need any sympathy. ATONALITY HAS GIVEN ME THE MOST INCREDIBLE MUSICAL EXPIERIENCES OF MY LIFE!!! TONAL MUSIC HAS GIVEN ME VOICE LEADING EXERCISES.


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## Huilunsoittaja

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Thanks, but I don't need any sympathy. ATONALITY HAS GIVEN ME THE MOST INCREDIBLE MUSICAL EXPIERIENCES OF MY LIFE!!! TONAL MUSIC HAS GIVEN ME VOICE LEADING EXERCISES.


Too true! *However*, I enjoy listening to Prokofiev because his chord progressions are so complex that if I were to try to name the chords he uses sometimes, I would get lost on the 2nd chord.  Unlike other composers, Prokofiev gives me a relief from hearing basic chord progressions that feel like exercises, while still using pretty regular chords, not atonality. He is truly relaxing for my brain. Mozart, Beethoven, and many others do _not _relax my brain, because my brain goes into _analysis _mode listening almost every time.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Huilunsoittaja said:


> Too true! *However*, I enjoy listening to Prokofiev because his chord progressions are so complex that if I were to try to name the chords he uses sometimes, I would get lost on the 2nd chord.  Unlike other composers, Prokofiev gives me a relief from hearing basic chord progressions that feel like exercises, while still using pretty regular chords, not atonality. He is truly relaxing for my brain. Mozart, Beethoven, and many others do _not _relax my brain, because my brain goes into _analysis _mode listening almost every time.


I very much agree, but when I listen to micropolyphonic music and other similar sounding music, the only chords that are used in them are cluster chords. No need to pick out cadences. Just let the huge wall of sound and timbre wash over my body like the waves on a beach.

My brain goes into analysis mode whenever I hear Schoenberg's _A Survivor From Warsaw._ I hope sprechstimme and dodecaphony do something good for me one day. Actually it would be cool to write an opera that _only_ uses sprechstimme.


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## jani

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> I'm sick of Beethoven just like I'm sick of most things tonal.


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## Guest

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Thanks, but I don't need any sympathy. ATONALITY HAS GIVEN ME THE MOST INCREDIBLE MUSICAL EXPIERIENCES OF MY LIFE!!! TONAL MUSIC HAS GIVEN ME VOICE LEADING EXERCISES.


I listened to your Piano Quintet. Who'd want to listen to Beethoven and Bach when they could listen to that!!? (Have you ever thought about writing music for one of those gloomy Bergman films: you know, the one where there's a spider dressed as Christ! French and Saunders have the script!)


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

CountenanceAnglaise said:


> I listened to your Piano Quintet. Who'd want to listen to Beethoven and Bach when they could listen to that!! (Have you ever thought about writing music for one of those gloomy Bergman films: you know, the where there's a spider dressed as Christ! French and Saunders have the script!)


Why, thank you for your compliments! I have already revised that piano quintet and it's a little different now. I like it more when I get feedback on improving my compositions though, but you did make me feel good then. (I think the music was a bit amateurish anyway, it _was_ written over two years ago and I have progressed since then).

I don't know any films by Ingmar Bergman, but I have wanted to write a film score one day.


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## Taneyev

Musical fanatics are very dangerous people. They tend to be equaly fanatics on politics, religion or any other things. Better to stay as far away from them as possible.


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## everythingthrume

Maybe you've listened to them too often and too many times within a short period of time. Give it a break to Beethoven, and listen to other great composers, then go back to Beethoven. Then, you'll probably appreciate his music fully again.


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## Lisztian

I'm not a huge fan of much of Beethoven's output (although for whatever reason i've neglected his chamber and choral works) - but to me, nothing is more profound than his late piano sonatas.


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## jani

everythingthrume said:


> Maybe you've listened to them too often and too many times within a short period of time. Give it a break to Beethoven, and listen to other great composers, then go back to Beethoven. Then, you'll probably appreciate his music fully again.


Yea, I listen to his ninth only once in a month, but i listen to his 5th symphony almost everyday.
I listen to his piano sonatas everyday.

And i am not tired of him at all.


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## poconoron

While I never get "sick" of listening to Beethoven, my taste corresponds more or less with Rossini"s:

_Beethoven I take twice a week, Haydn four times, and Mozart every day! (Rossini)_


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## myaskovsky2002

I used to like Beethoven 80 years ago.

Martin


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## Guest

That's most unfortunate.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde

Odnoposoff said:


> Musical fanatics are very dangerous people. They tend to be equaly fanatics on politics, religion or any other things. Better to stay as far away from them as possible.


Like how I idolise Karl Marx and his political theories?


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## Guest

Take a listen to this and see how tired of Beethoven it makes you:


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## Op.123

You feel sick of Beethoven. *Impossible!!*


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## Minona

Well you've actually _heard_ the 9th symphony 50 times more than Beethoven. People at that time could probably expect to hear their favourite piece a few times in their lifetimes.


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## EarthBoundRules

Wow, it's almost been a year and a half since I first made this thread...

Anyway, I decided I'd try a little experiment: instead of constantly listening to music trying to reach the same high that I got when I first listened to it, I'll try making it more of a special event where I read up about the piece, maybe look at the score, listen to it once, then move on. After all, that's how the composers intended for us to listen to their pieces instead of rewinding / replaying them over and over again. 

I'll come back later to report any differences in my music appreciation. And if nothing changes, well, I guess my only message is don't ruin your favourite pieces by listening to them on repeat on your MP3 players all day long like me!


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## Pyotr

Good luck! 
I actually tried that once at one point in my life with rock music. When I liked a song, I would play it over and over and eventually get tired of it. So I experimented with not playing it as much and, you know what? I got tired of it anyway. I firmly believe that when one falls in love with something, whether it be certain piece of music, or place or person, etc., that there's an expiration date stamped on it that only Venus knows.


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## KenOC

I think a lot of people grow tired of Beethoven after a time. That sententious over-earnestness, the endless striving for effect, always trying to show how "learned" he is, the constant battering at one's ears -- all that noise and fury signifying, ultimately, very little. No wonder his contemporaries sneered at him as a "schlock jock." :devil:


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## EarthBoundRules

KenOC said:


> I think a lot of people grow tired of Beethoven after a time. That sententious over-earnestness, the endless striving for effect, always trying to show how "learned" he is, the constant battering at one's ears -- all that noise and fury signifying, ultimately, very little. No wonder his contemporaries sneered at him as a "schlock jock." :devil:


Heh. I must say though, I've really been enjoying the Missa Solemnis lately. It seems much more down-to-earth than a lot of his other pieces.


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## DavidA

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Like how I idolise Karl Marx and his political theories?


That must be a fallen idol then.


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## Arsakes

I've grown sick of this thread.


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## tdc

I grew slightly sick of Beethoven for a while, but I've been enjoying him again lately.


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## Crudblud

I don't listen to his music often enough to grow sick of it. I suppose that's the trick.


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## Sonata

Beethoven is clicking with me now more than ever before  His piano sonatas resonate with me, even though they are written outside of the Chopin or "new age piano" idiom that I have long loved. His cello and violin sonatas are great, and I really like symphonies 6 and 9.


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## PetrB

put it all away for a while, and eat something else.

Try again much later.

I've seen on this forum that some people just go obsessive repeat listen to one piece or composer only, or are near obsessive methodical in surveying the works of a composer, "I'm up to the 14th string quartet now!"

(...and have you checked all the quartets, the piano sonatas, the violin sonatas, the 'cello sonatas, the complete bagatelles, the Diabelli variations.... etc. Or have you only 'done' the big symphonies, the piano concerti, the violin concerto, the triple concerto, the Missa Solemnis, etc?)

Switch it up, go to other eras, within the era but other composers, just leave Luigi alone for a while.

'If nothing else will do' other than Beethoven, or music very similar, then it is you, and not the composer or music, who has a limitation, if not a problem.


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## KenOC

PetrB said:


> 'If nothing else will do' other than Beethoven, or music very similar, then it is you, and not the composer or music, who has a limitation, if not a problem.


This problem, like many such problems, can easily be treated by...more Beethoven!


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## julianoq

KenOC said:


> This problem, like many such problems, can easily be treated by...more Beethoven!


On a totally unrelated note, your new avatar is awesome!

To stay on topic, after a few months binging on Beethoven now I am restricting it a lot, like listening only one work a day. It is working fine.


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## Huilunsoittaja

Better than getting sick is never to be infected in the first place. :tiphat:


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## ArtMusic

How can anyone be sick of Beethoven's music?


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## peeyaj

As long as I have my Schubert, Beethoven can go and !&*& himself..


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## Arsakes

peeyaj said:


> As long as I have my Schubert, Beethoven can go and !&*& himself..


How did you dare? YOU'RE DEAD MEAT! *makes you fall into abyss*


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## maestro57

I can't believe such a thread exists! As recommended, I think listening to different interpretations of the same piece will revive your love for the piece. Some conductors just do it completely different from others. For piano music, sometimes I'll get bored of a piece, but then I'll listen to some Glenn Gould and it gives me a very different take on it. We all know how eccentric he can be.


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## Novelette

I must side with the group who find this opinion utterly incomprehensible.

But then again, listening to Beethoven requires a great deal of energy on my part, so I, woefully, can only listen to him occasionally.

I can't imagine being sick of Beethoven, anymore than I can imagine being sick of Schumann, Cherubini, Schubert, etc., etc.


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## hpowders

Except for the Violin Concerto and Piano Sonatas and one or two String Quartets, I'm a little sick of Beethoven myself.

Too much exposure for me after so many years. The music is no longer fresh for me.

Hey Beethoven! It's not you. It's me!!!


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## Pugg

maestro57 said:


> I can't believe such a thread exists! As recommended, I think listening to different interpretations of the same piece will revive your love for the piece. Some conductors just do it completely different from others. For piano music, sometimes I'll get bored of a piece, but then I'll listen to some Glenn Gould and it gives me a very different take on it. We all know how eccentric he can be.


Or even being resurrected .


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## Phil loves classical

hpowders said:


> Except for the Violin Concerto and Piano Sonatas and one or two String Quartets, I'm a little sick of Beethoven myself.
> 
> Too much exposure for me after so many years. The music is no longer fresh for me.
> 
> Hey Beethoven! It's not you. It's me!!!


Maybe he should have written more music that is less ear-tiring. You should expect at least that much from what many call the "Greatest Composer". Hmm. Does it sound like I'm being serious? (I'm not).


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## hpowders

Phil loves classical said:


> Maybe he should have written more music that is less ear-tiring. You should expect at least that much from what many call the "Greatest Composer". Hmm. Does it sound like I'm being serious? (I'm not).


I've been listening to Beethoven for many, many years. It's simply a case of over-exposure.

Like watching the My Pillow commercial for the umpteenth time. The novelty gradually wears thin.


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## Blancrocher

I've developed some back and neck pain by sitting down and listening to Beethoven for lengthy periods over the years. In hindsight, I see that it's important to get up to walk around and stretch a little bit.


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## Klassik

poconoron said:


> While I never get "sick" of listening to Beethoven, my taste corresponds more or less with Rossini"s:
> 
> _Beethoven I take twice a week, Haydn four times, and Mozart every day! (Rossini)_


That Rossini was a smart guy. But, yeah, I agree with that. I suppose I could listen to Haydn every day as well. Beethoven, well, maybe the sixth symphony and some sonatas would make for good everyday listening. Oh, and Wellington's Victory. That's on the everyday essential playlist!


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## Tallisman

I can't listen to the 5th. Too familiar. Still love the 3rd and 9th, though. But when I tire of the Emperor concerto, I'll tire of life:tiphat:


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## Tallisman

Also, I sometimes think after I've listened to a composer a lot and for a long time, I'll _think_ I get sick of them, but usually come back to them after a long time of listening to other music. Don't listen to any Beethoven for a few months or a year and then come back and play the Eroica at full blast and you may remedy your current contempt... hopefully...


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## Phil loves classical

Tallisman said:


> I can't listen to the 5th. Too familiar. Still love the 3rd and 9th, though. But when I tire of the Emperor concerto, I'll tire of life:tiphat:


Same here with the 5th. Piano Concerto 4 and Emperor Concerto never, still like the first times I've heard it. FOr me the Symphony No. 4 is the most durable for heavy wear.


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## hpowders

Oh please. The Emperor Concerto would have been a perfect soundtrack for Hitler marching in triumph through Vienna during Anschluss.


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## Marc

Beethoven is still growing on me. Especially the _Klaviersonaten_ & _Quartette_.


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## Art Rock

For the first two years that I have listened to classical music, I would have named Beethoven as my favourite composer. In the subsequent three decades he has slid down quite a bit. I still think he is a great composer, but I can easily name more than a dozen composers whom I prefer.


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## Phil loves classical

hpowders said:


> Oh please. The Emperor Concerto would have been a perfect soundtrack for Hitler marching in triumph through Vienna during Anschluss.


A re-idealized Hitler?


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## hpowders

Phil loves classical said:


> A re-idealized Hitler?


The first movement is perfect storm trooper marching music.

Perhaps, North Korea will pick up on it....if they are monitoring my posts.


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## Bettina

hpowders said:


> The first movement is perfect storm trooper marching music.
> 
> Perhaps, North Korea will pick up on it....if they are monitoring my posts.


They'd have to rename it the Emperor *Kim*certo, to satisfy his ego.


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## hpowders

Bettina said:


> They'd have to rename it the Emperor *Kim*certo, to satisfy his ego.


If Trump visits North Korea, they could play the Eroica & the Emperor simultaneously.


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## Brahmsian Colors

hpowders said:


> The first movement is perfect storm trooper marching music.
> 
> Perhaps, North Korea will pick up on it....if they are monitoring my posts.


The North Korean troops already display the goose step as they parade down the streets with their latest weaponry. :devil:


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## mathisdermaler

I'm exactly the same way. Only like the Eroica now


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## mathisdermaler

Like another said, just listen to Wagner. The true Western master


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## ibrahim

It's possible to grow tired of ANY particular artist by overexposure. Overfamiliarity denudes art works of novelty and the feeling of discovery. 

I need to control myself from over-listening to those three splendid and transcendent last piano sonatas...


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## Bettina

ibrahim said:


> It's possible to grow tired of ANY particular artist by overexposure. Overfamiliarity denudes art works of novelty and the feeling of discovery.
> 
> *I need to control myself from over-listening to those three splendid and transcendent last piano sonatas*...


Same here. I try to ration all of Beethoven's music, so that it doesn't lose its magical effect on me. I need his music to last me for the rest of my life. The only reason why I listen to other composers is to prevent myself from over-indulging in Beethoven. (Just kidding about that being the *only *reason, but there's a grain of truth in it! :lol


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## Tallisman

hpowders said:


> Oh please. The Emperor Concerto would have been a perfect soundtrack for Hitler marching in triumph through Vienna during Anschluss.


...Okeydokey...


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## 20centrfuge

There is nothing holy about Beethoven.


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## hpowders

This has worked for me: Ten days of antibiotic, twice a day. Formerly seriously sick of Beethoven. Now on the 11th day, I can listen to three minutes of the Eroica Symphony before I turn it off and listen to Ives' Third Symphony instead. A big improvement!


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## Pugg

20centrfuge said:


> There is nothing holy about Beethoven.


Just excellent music, I agree.


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## mtmailey

The best thing to do is listen to OTHER COMPOSERS MUSIC therefore you can not be bored with one composer.


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## Pugg

When one's grown sick of Beethoven, one is tired of life.


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## Fabulin

I cannot listen to the 9th other than as a complete experience in the background anymore. Attentive listening to singular movements or moments has reached its end, as have the joys of the most fiery interpretations.

Luckily the old and relaxed Weingartner recording is good for a complete experience...


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## Handelian

If you are sick ofBeethoven try someone else. Handel or Bach perhaps?answer seems obvious!


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## Allegro Con Brio

Beethoven captured my heart when I was first getting into classical, but I’ve found that his music doesn’t really wear well for repeated listening. I still love much of it, of course, but he probably now sits just outside my top 10 favorite composers. I listen most to the piano sonatas and string quartets, not the symphonies.


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## SanAntone

I don't get tired of Beethoven, but I don't listen to the symphonies - just the piano sonatas and string quartets mostly. Also, throw in the violin and cello sonatas. 

That's my recipe for any composer - focus on their chamber music instead of the big orchestral works.


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## MatthewWeflen

SanAntone said:


> I don't get tired of Beethoven, but I don't listen to the symphonies - just the piano sonatas and string quartets mostly. Also, throw in the violin and cello sonatas.
> 
> That's my recipe for any composer - focus on their chamber music instead of the big orchestral works.


Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't get sick of beef because I never eat filet mignon (or ribeye, depending on your preference)?" For many composers, the symphony was what they poured the most effort into. Why would I deny myself the fruits of their labors?

I try to ration Beethoven's symphonies. He is my number one composer, and I hold his symphonies to be one of the two greatest achievements in the form, but I want the thrill to remain. So I rotate through a wide variety of other composers' symphonic and chamber works (as well as Beethoven's other concertos and chamber works). But when I return to them, at least so far, it is always a mini-revelation again as to how perfect they are.


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## SanAntone

MatthewWeflen said:


> Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't get sick of beef because I never eat filet mignon (or ribeye, depending on your preference)?" For many composers, the symphony was what they poured the most effort into. Why would I deny myself the fruits of their labors?


I don't agree with you, and don't consider chamber music inherently inferior to orchestral music. For someone like Shostakovich, his string quartets (private works) are generally considered more expressive of his musical personality than the symphonies (pubic works under Soviet scrutiny). I think most composers enjoy writing chamber music since it is more intimate - allowing for the expression of other kinds of things than the "big statement" of a symphony.

Personally, I am not a fan of orchestral music because of the bombast and prefer chamber music. That's true for all composers I like.

I was just suggesting that if someone is tired of Beethoven and has mainly listened to the symphonies, try the chamber music.


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## MatthewWeflen

SanAntone said:


> I don't agree with you, and don't consider chamber music inherently inferior to orchestral music. For someone like Shostakovich, his string quartets (private works) are generally considered more expressive of his musical personality than the symphonies (pubic works under Soviet scrutiny). I think most composers enjoy writing chamber music since it is more intimate - allowing for the expression of other kinds of things than the "big statement" of a symphony.
> 
> Personally, I am not a fan of orchestral music because of the bombast and prefer chamber music. That's true for all composers I like.
> 
> I was just suggesting that if someone is tired of Beethoven and has mainly listened to the symphonies, try the chamber music.


Point taken. I'm sure there are some composers for whom their chamber works eclipse their symphonic works (Schubert springs to mind). I just happen to prefer orchestral works.


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## mparta

There are an awful lot of food analogies in here for a lacto-ovo-nongmo-freerange cardboard eater like myself.

I guess it's a bit of an age thing, I wonder if there was a time when I might have said that I'm tired of Beethoven, but I can't remember it. I still think his work has an ageless depth and quality beyond that of any other composer, and I travel purposefully to hear performances (the music epitomizing the "better than it can be played" mantra every chance i get. I have to discipline myself to not just keep Beethoven on the player or the piano keyboard.

Maybe that's something to look forward to after time tempers the ennui (does that happen?) To me, it feels like you said you're tired of the sun.


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## GucciManeIsTheNewWebern

SanAntone said:


> I don't agree with you, and don't consider chamber music inherently inferior to orchestral music. For someone like Shostakovich, his string quartets (private works) are generally considered more expressive of his musical personality than the symphonies (pubic works under Soviet scrutiny). I think most composers enjoy writing chamber music since it is more intimate - allowing for the expression of other kinds of things than the "big statement" of a symphony.
> 
> Personally, I am not a fan of orchestral music because of the bombast and prefer chamber music. That's true for all composers I like.
> 
> I was just suggesting that if someone is tired of Beethoven and has mainly listened to the symphonies, try the chamber music.


My preferences are also drawn more to the intimate settings of chamber music than orchestral and symphonies, while I do certainly enjoy both. The possibilites of a string quartet are literally endless, its one of the most versatile mediums out there IMO and its especially expressive when an a non-string instrument is thrown into the mix (Piano, Harp, or Clarinet à Brahms). Extra layering or another voice in a string quintet is awesome too

Beethovens quartets (and general chamber music) are really rewarding to keep going back to and I marvel at their rhythnmic nventiveness and how he synthesizes brilliance from very simple building blocks of ideas.


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## annaw

MatthewWeflen said:


> Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't get sick of beef because I never eat filet mignon (or ribeye, depending on your preference)?" For many composers, the symphony was what they poured the most effort into. Why would I deny myself the fruits of their labors?
> 
> I try to ration Beethoven's symphonies. He is my number one composer, and I hold his symphonies to be one of the two greatest achievements in the form, but I want the thrill to remain. So I rotate through a wide variety of other composers' symphonic and chamber works (as well as Beethoven's other concertos and chamber works). But when I return to them, at least so far, it is always a mini-revelation again as to how perfect they are.


Beethoven is one of my absolutely favourite composers as well, but I must say that in my opinion it's nearly impossible to say in which genre his talents shone the brightest. He was an immensely talented pianist, a great string quartet (and chamber music, in general) composer, and a famously good symphonist. While the symphonies were my main introduction into Beethoven's compositions and I value them highly, I personally see the string quartets as the climax of his genius. That's at least the case at the moment. I think their complexity and innovativeness makes them (i.e. the late quartets) very remarkable.

But I agree with you that constantly listening to different works and composers keeps one from overlistening to Beethoven (or any other composer, really). It makes Beethoven's music even more powerful when you finally do listen to, say, his 9th symphony.


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## consuono

His symphonies have been overplayed. As far as symphonic writing is concerned I'm more interested in the late Romantics. I'll have to admit that while I'd still put Beethoven in my top three, I'm listening to his music less and less as I get older.


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## Rogerx

When one is sick of Beethoven he/ she is tired of living.


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## SixFootScowl

Rogerx said:


> When one is sick of Beethoven he/ she is tired of living.


Can I put that in the wise quotes thread? Seriously!


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## HenryPenfold

consuono said:


> His symphonies have been overplayed. As far as symphonic writing is concerned I'm more interested in the late Romantics. I'll have to admit that while I'd still put Beethoven in my top three, I'm listening to his music less and less as I get older.


I recommend you go and lie down in a dark room, place a damp flannel on your forehead and put Brahms 1 on in the background, and we'll have talk about this tomorrow.


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## mparta

I just posted on the current listening about HvK/BPO performances of the 5th and 6th symphonies. Pieces I have known from recordings since childhood. Their structures and motifs, melodies, harmonies, rhythms don't hold great mystery for me now.

But the quantum, chaotic transition from what's written on those pages to what we can feel he intended, the absolute earth shattering soul seering intensity and intellectual integrity of the works, that led to performances such as referenced above--- just have to be thankful that it exists, wonder, can't explain.

And never tire, to me that would be a hole in my soul, not a criticism of Beethoven. Beethoven's music. Music better than the man could possibly have been, better than it could possibly be played, certainly beyond our nickel and dime version of understanding it. If there's anything that says we transcend our million-year old carbon status, this is it. We can't say hats off anymore, nobody wears a hat. but this is genius.

Transcend, there has to be a time and place. Well, there doesn't have to be, but this is where I place my bet.


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## Axter

It will grow back again. If you take distance and hear it again after a while you will appreciate it again.
Its quite human nature. If you overplay a certain piece over and over again, you need a break. Like eating your favourite meal. Eat 10 days in a row your favourite meal and you will be tired of it. Return to it after 3 months break and you will love it again.
(hopefully)


For what its is worth, as I am typing I am listening to Beethoven’s Piano Concerto 4 in the background (oh yes, it feels good).


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## consuono

HenryPenfold said:


> I recommend you go and lie down in a dark room, place a damp flannel on your forehead and put Brahms 1 on in the background, and we'll have talk about this tomorrow.


Why Brahms 1 and not Beethoven 5? I've heard both of those enough to do me awhile. I'll put on some Bruckner that I've neglected or ignored.


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## Doctor Fuse

Mozart was the true revolutionary. Destroying the harmonic language with 14 notes in the last movement of his 40th symphony, and attempting social anarchy with his people's opera.

Beethoven is a heavy-footed faker, compared to Amadeus.


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## John Lenin

A man who is tired of Beethoven is tired of life


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## EdwardBast

Doctor Fuse said:


> Mozart was the true revolutionary. Destroying the harmonic language with 14 notes in the last movement of his 40th symphony, and attempting social anarchy with his people's opera.
> 
> Beethoven is a heavy-footed faker, compared to Amadeus.


Wow! You managed to cram five silly claims into a single short post! Welcome to the forum.


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## Sondersdorf

MatthewWeflen said:


> I try to ration Beethoven's symphonies. He is my number one composer, and I hold his symphonies to be one of the two greatest achievements in the form....


There used to be a beer made in Vancouver, Washington call Regal Select. Its label said, "One of America's Two Finest Beers". They never told you what the other one was which caused endless speculation, especially after the third one. Since there was a Lucky Lager brewery in Vancouver, the answer was pretty obvious. In this case, I'm not so sure.

So, who's number two for symphonies?


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## Guest002

Sondersdorf said:


> There used to be a beer made in Vancouver, Washington call Regal Select. Its label said, "One of America's Two Finest Beers". They never told you what the other one was which caused endless speculation, especially after the third one. Since there was a Lucky Lager brewery in Vancouver, the answer was pretty obvious. In this case, I'm not so sure.
> 
> So, who's number two for symphonies?


Vaughan Williams, without a shadow of a doubt.
Runs, ducks and covers...


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## adriesba

Here's what I've gathered from my experience and discussions on this forum.

Reading some of the posts here is comforting and gives me hope that someday I'll be in the mood for the various things I haven't listened to in a long time. One thing I'll say (AbsolutelyBaching mentioned this somewhere recently I believe, and it seems like good advice) is that it's best not to do this sort of highlights listening thing too often. For example, listening to the same five minutes of a larger work over and over again, the same movement, the same aria, etc. I've done this before in attempt to find a recording that seems promising. But overall, it seems this is why I have had a lot of these quick, short cravings. The excerpts satisfy the desire, and before you know it, your brain has moved on to something else. That doesn't mean you'll never feel the desire to listen to the piece again, but it makes you satiated quickly so that there's not enough time to fully enjoy anything. So now I'm making a point as per AbsolutelyBaching's advice to as much as is practical listen to the entire work before listening again.



wiganwarrior said:


> I don't think you can MAKE it fresh again - it can't be forced. Like most conductors, soloists etc who say they always find something new in Beethoven (or any other composer for that matter) I think it is our reaction to the music in terms of our own development that is key. The best example I can think off, of the cuff, is Mahler's Kindertotenlieder (Songs on the death of children). When I first listened to this, at age 15, I was very moved, but I didn't have children then. Having children has made me relate to this music in a different, probably much deeper, way. For those people who have actually lost a child I believe the connection would be even greater. Sorry to chose such a depressing scenario to illustrate the point, but it is very much how we change which deeply affects our relationship to a particular piece of music.
> I think if I listened to Beethoven 9 every week for a year I might not appreciate it as much because I haven't changed much over that time. The pure unadulterated joy of Beethoven 7 was there when I passed my GCSE'S, when I got married, when I had my children etc but, in each case in a different and, may I say, a more meaningful way- and the beautiful thing is I KNOW is that it will be there again when, hopefully, I have grandchildren. So, be patient. The music of Beethoven will come back to you,


This post makes a good point. If you're not in the mood for something you normally enjoy don't push yourself too much. I'm not married and don't have kids, so the example above isn't relatable for me, but there are other examples. One has nothing to do with music. At the end of each summer, I get frustrated with something in the garden and think I won't do it next year, but sure enough, after the seemingly endless winter, springtime rekindles my interest in gardening. If you're sick of Beethoven or whatnot, just wait and something will likely reawaken the dormant interest.


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## poconoron

I used to like (and still do) Beethoven but then I discovered Mozart.


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## Xisten267

poconoron said:


> I used to like (and still do) Beethoven but then I discovered Mozart.


I love Mozart but prefer Beethoven. To each their own.


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## SixFootScowl

My Beethoven sickness is that I can't get enough of Beethoven!


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## Rogerx

SixFootScowl said:


> My Beethoven sickness is that I can't get enough of Beethoven!


No harm done , worst things can happening to a human being.


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## ORigel

Sondersdorf said:


> There used to be a beer made in Vancouver, Washington call Regal Select. Its label said, "One of America's Two Finest Beers". They never told you what the other one was which caused endless speculation, especially after the third one. Since there was a Lucky Lager brewery in Vancouver, the answer was pretty obvious. In this case, I'm not so sure.
> 
> So, who's number two for symphonies?


Mahler or Brahms. I would include Bruckner but his symphonies have less variety.


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## SixFootScowl

Sondersdorf said:


> There used to be a beer made in Vancouver, Washington call Regal Select. Its label said, "One of America's Two Finest Beers". They never told you what the other one was which caused endless speculation, especially after the third one. Since there was a Lucky Lager brewery in Vancouver, the answer was pretty obvious. In this case, I'm not so sure.
> 
> So, who's number two for symphonies?


I know you didn't ask me but can't help saying #2 for me is Mendelssohn.


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## consuono

Doctor Fuse said:


> ...and attempting social anarchy with his people's opera.
> ...


If you're talking about Figaro, he did no such thing. In Figaro, he and Da Ponte transcended the political in favor of the personal. If it were made today, it would probably be nothing but political preaching.

"Ah! All shall be
made happy thereby.
Only love can resolve
this day of torments,
caprice and folly,
into joy and happiness.
Spouses and sweethearts, to dancing and fun,
and let's have some fireworks!
And to the sound of a gay march
hurry off to celebrate..."


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