# CORRECTED Round 1. Wagner Bass. Tannhauser. Gar viel and shon. Hofmann, Frick, Weber



## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

I did research as I knew nothing about Wagner basses. I hope these are ok. Maybe you will like the next round of singers if these do nothing for you.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

The Hofmann starts at 25:00 (earlier if you want the orchestral intro)


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## MAS (Apr 15, 2015)

I don’t really connect with basses. That said, I liked Hofmann most of all: a dark and handsome rich sound. Good high notes, smooth emission and as far as I can tell without a libretto, good diction. 

I liked Frick the least, both in voice and performance. He seemed like a comedian in the way he chewed his notes.

Weber came in between: I didn’t dislike anything he did, but I was less impressed than with Hofmann .


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

I love basses and this particular scene, but I don't much care for any of these three here. Weber was a great Gurnemanz, but he's not so good at declamatory singing. It's a little late for Frick, and he is deficient in legato. I don't like the quality of Hofmann's voice, but I voted for him at the best suited, but I'd rather listen to Sotin, Moll, or Pape from complete recordings.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> I love basses and this particular scene, but I don't much care for any of these three here. Weber was a great Gurnemanz, but he's not so good at declamatory singing. It's a little late for Frick, and he is deficient in legato. I don't like the quality of Hofmann's voice, but I voted for him at the best suited, but I'd rather listen to Sotin, Moll, or Pape from complete recordings.


So many things aren't available. This says it is Moll from a collection but I don't know him to be sure if it is him.



 If it is I can put him in the next round and wait till then to comment. Sotin is unavailable. I am nowhere near on your level in this. Just doing my best from research on the internet. Most people don't want to bother with trying to help me in these areas I am trying to research on my own. I have around 24 Wagner bass videos for contests now.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Seattleoperafan said:


> So many things aren't available. This says it is Moll from a collection but I don't know him to be sure if it is him.


It's definitely Moll - I'd know that voice anywhere!

Here's Sotin (it wasn't very well identified on YT):






You might want to include Ivar Andresen in the next round - it's a pretty famous recording, and it's on YouTube.


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Hoffman sounded like a winner right off...then I heard the other two! All three voices sounded so firm, top to bottom with a lyrical approach to music which is primarily declamation. But that declamation seemed to be rounded into a much more musical shape by both Frick and Weber. In both, the increased sense of song seemed part of a warmer characterization. Weber extended it to some lieder-like phrases that made me wonder how that would work in the house. Frick carried off the effect with a fuller approach and also had that wonderful sense that if this music ever went to the bottom of his range we'd get to here that blackness at the bottom just get louder and stronger all the way down. He's the most familiar of the three and on this hearing, for me, the most compelling.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> It's definitely Moll - I'd know that voice anywhere!
> 
> Here's Sotin (it wasn't very well identified on YT):
> 
> ...


I have him in the next round!!!!!!! Oh, that made my day.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks guys for the big help. I will have those two in an extra round next and since ivarsson was already in the other round I planned I'll see how I did picking them out. Pape was not available on Youtube.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

ScottK said:


> Hoffman sounded like a winner right off...then I heard the other two! All three voices sounded so firm, top to bottom with a lyrical approach to music which is primarily declamation. But that declamation seemed to be rounded into a much more musical shape by both Frick and Weber. In both, the increased sense of song seemed part of a warmer characterization. Weber extended it to some lieder-like phrases that made me wonder how that would work in the house. Frick carried off the effect with a fuller approach and also had that wonderful sense that if this music ever went to the bottom of his range we'd get to here that blackness at the bottom just get louder and stronger all the way down. He's the most familiar of the three and on this hearing, for me, the most compelling.


Bless you and I'll post those arias next. Glad you enjoyed these. I learn about Wagner from the types of things you say- things I don't normally listen for aside from beautiful voices.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

I would never have expected this rather speechy thing - well, OK, it's actually a speech - to sound manic, but Hoffmann seems to be on something quite stimulating. His evident enthusiasm pushes him into shoutiness, some wild vibrato, and, too-frequently, vague pitches. Good intentions don't overcome rough execution. Frick's fervor is saner, and his singing more settled. His is a very characterful voice, instantly recognizable, and I've always enjoyed him in the villainous and comic roles that were his specialty. I like what he does here; the voice itself gives character to a personage of no particular distinction among Wagner's creations. Weber is interesting; he applies some softer, gentler touches where he can, making the address seem less a speech and more a talk. I find it hard to choose between him and Frick, but that extra bit of artistic sensitivity should count for something. So Weber it is.

Frick's excerpt begins with the orchestral introduction, which contains a truly wonderful melody that for me is one of the highlights of the opera. It goes on and on, turning this way and that, and its beauty and grace never flag. _Tannhauser_ has never been one of my favorite Wagner operas - the plot annoys me, for one thing - but that melody, and many other great tunes that fill it, certainly explain its popularity, even among some who are not fond of Wagner in general. Wagner always wanted to revise more of it than the Venusberg scene - which he turned into something sinfully seductive - but never got around to it.


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Woodduck said:


> _Tannhauser_ has never been one of my favorite Wagner operas - the plot annoys me, for one thing - but that melody, and many other great tunes that fill it, certainly explain its popularity, even among some who are not fond of Wagner in general.


I agree. I rarely listen to Tannhauser as a complete opera, but I often listen to "Blick ich umher", "Wohl wusst ich hier", "Wie Todessahnung...", and "Allmächtge Jungfrau" - some of the most beautiful music that Wagner ever wrote.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

wkasimer said:


> I agree. I rarely listen to Tannhauser as a complete opera, but I often listen to "Blick ich umher", "Wohl wusst ich hier", "Wie Todessahnung...", and "Allmächtge Jungfrau" - some of the most beautiful music that Wagner ever wrote.


I'm sure Wagner would have left the tunes intact had he revised the opera further, but I do wonder what changes, additions or subtractions he had in mind. He rightly identified the character of Venus and her brothel as the weak point, and his second thoughts produced something far more seductive than lipstick on a pig.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> It's definitely Moll - I'd know that voice anywhere!
> 
> Here's Sotin (it wasn't very well identified on YT):
> 
> ...


I looked rather hard to find this aria by Pape to cue up in the complete recording but I kept striking out. I sort of knew where to look but it hid from me. I'm doing the two you recommended other than Pape next as just two. Ivarsen , Nienstedt, and Greindl are the ones I thought would be a nice last round from my research..


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## wkasimer (Jun 5, 2017)

Seattleoperafan said:


> I looked rather hard to find this aria by Pape to cue up in the complete recording but I kept striking out. I sort of knew where to look but it hid from me. I'm doing the two you recommended other than Pape next as just two. Ivarsen , Nienstedt, and Greindl are the ones I thought would be a nice last round from my research..


If you want to include Pape, he's here (it's the entire Barenboim recording of the opera) at 1:34:59:


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

wkasimer said:


> If you want to include Pape, he's here (it's the entire Barenboim recording of the opera) at 1:34:59:


THANKS!!! It is more fun with 3 than two contestants and with your help at least one round will be superb


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## Tsaraslondon (Nov 7, 2013)

I knew this piece from the Solti recording, but I'm not that much into basses, to be honest. I'm ashamed to admit I'm always pleased to get this bit over with, and I'm afraid I do rather feel the same about King Mark's monologue in *Tristan*. No wonder I find the first act of *Parsifal* a bit of a stretch. Gurnemanz does go on a bit. 

I didn't like Hofmann at all, which left me with Frick and Weber, both of whom I enjoyed much more. They both sounded more avuncular, which is what I think this piece requires. Finding it hard to choose between them, ultimately I'll go for Weber, whose performance seemed just a tad more sensitive.


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## Seattleoperafan (Mar 24, 2013)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I knew this piece from the Solti recording, but I'm not that much into basses, to be honest. I'm ashamed to admit I'm always pleased to get this bit over with, and I'm afraid I do rather feel the same about King Mark's monologue in *Tristan*. No wonder I find the first act of *Parsifal* a bit of a stretch. Gurnemanz does go on a bit.
> 
> I didn't like Hofmann at all, which left me with Frick and Weber, both of whom I enjoyed much more. They both sounded more avuncular, which is what I think this piece requires. Finding it hard to choose between them, ultimately I'll go for Weber, whose performance seemed just a tad more sensitive.


Thanks for playing anyway. Wait till you hear Tancredi Pasero sing Wagner. He could get you interested. Another contest.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Tsaraslondon said:


> I knew this piece from the Solti recording, but I'm not that much into basses, to be honest. I'm ashamed to admit I'm always pleased to get this bit over with, and I'm afraid I do rather feel the same about King Mark's monologue in *Tristan*. No wonder I find the first act of *Parsifal* a bit of a stretch. Gurnemanz does go on a bit.
> 
> I didn't like Hofmann at all, which left me with Frick and Weber, both of whom I enjoyed much more. *They both sounded more avuncular, *which is what I think this piece requires. Finding it hard to choose between them, ultimately I'll go for Weber, whose performance seemed just a tad more sensitive.


Avuncular! That's it! The word I couldn't think of! Thank you. I think all avuncular characters in opera are basses - can you even imagine an avuncular Franco Corelli? - and I'd recommend that avuncularity should be part of every bass's training. We might even cure the present scarcity of great basses if all uncles were taught to sing bass.

Just a stray thought...


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## ScottK (Dec 23, 2021)

Woodduck said:


> Avuncular! That's it! The word I couldn't think of! Thank you. I think all avuncular characters in opera are basses - can you even imagine an avuncular Franco Corelli? - and I'd recommend that avuncularity should be part of every bass's training. We might even cure the present scarcity of great basses if all uncles were taught to sing bass.
> 
> Just a stray thought...


It's in their genes!.....(Franco as my uncle??...eeuuuuuuuhhhhhh!!!)


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