# Haydn Symphony No. 82 - recommendations?



## Mister Meow (10 mo ago)

I'm looking for some recommendations for your favorite recordings of Symphony No. 82. I heard part of it again yesterday, and was reminded that I wanted to own one. Unfortunately, they were playing the second movement too fast for my liking. It was as if they were in a hurry and had to be somewhere as soon as they were done with the recording session. 🙃 I'm hoping to find a recording that is currently available. 

Thank you in advance for your recommendations.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

When I did some comparisons about 15 years ago my favorites were Harnoncourt (Concentus musicus) and Bernstein (New York Philharmonic). I didn't care much for Kuijken and Marriner (despite liking some others of his "Paris" set a lot but the brass is not present enough in #82). IIRC both Dorati and Fischer in their complete boxes are not at their best in the Paris set. Since then I acquired Brüggen and Fey and they should both be quite good but I don't remember any details. All of them but Bernstein might be too fast for your taste in the second movement (that is "allegretto" after all).


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## Heck148 (Oct 27, 2016)

Bernstein/NYPO


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## Bulldog (Nov 21, 2013)

My favored version comes from Colin Davis.


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## Philidor (11 mo ago)

Harnoncourt, Kuijken, Bernstein. And Salonen.


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## Animal the Drummer (Nov 14, 2015)

I like Salonen's version too. He's not a conductor whose work I usually find congenial but this recording is a good one.


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## bagpipers (Jun 29, 2013)

Sir Thomas Beecham maybe


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## Chilham (Jun 18, 2020)

Antonini, Kammerochester Basel


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## Ludwig Schon (10 mo ago)

Asking what’s your favourite Haydn 82 is a bit like asking what‘s your favourite 1st movement of Beethoven’s Eroica.

To me the Paris Symphonies are one continuous waltz. It starts off wild and wonderful @82 and slows down @85…

Right now, Lil Ludi is reliving his youth through Hüsker Dü’s _Zen Arcade_…


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## Gallus (Feb 8, 2018)

Heck148 said:


> Bernstein/NYPO


One of my favourite recordings of any Haydn symphony.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I didn't like that Salonen disc at all although I got it mostly for the #78 and don't remember much about #82. Got rid of it long ago; I found this overall small scale and "cool" (in the sense of cold and uninvolved).
If one for some reason doesn't want to get a set of all the Paris symphonies, I'd recommend Fey (+88, 95) which is one of the best discs in his series or Goodman, one I forgot above, although I like its discmates 83 and 84 considerably less, without the brass and timpani the music suddenly becomes too small scale with Goodman (which is not at all the case in Harnoncourt's or Bernstein's Paris sets).


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## EvaBaron (Jan 3, 2022)

Bernstein is excellent, for all the Paris symphonies btw. Salonen is also very good. And if you listened to those go listen to 83, it’s better


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Below are the six recordings of Haydn's Symphony No. 82 ("The Bear") that I'd most suggest you sample from & read reviews for; although it sounds like you may be leaning towards a modern instrument performance, rather than a period instrument one:

I. On modern instruments,

My top three:

1. Sir Colin Davis, Concertgbouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, Philips: 



2. Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic Orchestra, Columbia/Sony: 



3. Harmut Haenchen, Kammerorchester 'Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach', Berlin Classics--an underrated Dresden-born conductor & orchestra. Their "Bear" may not be as exciting as Bernstein's, but Haenchen & his Dresden players give a wonderfully stylish, highly detailed, & nuanced reading, nevertheless (as the whole score is simply laid out before you): Hartmut Haenchen Haydn: Name Symphonies [Box Set] Album Reviews, Songs & More | AllMusic

Other top rated recordings that you may wish to consider (listed in no particular order).

--Kurt Sanderling, Berliner Sinfonie-Orchester, RCA--wonderful, 'big band' performances, if that's how you like your Haydn: 



--Adam Fischer, Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra, Nimbus or Brilliant (reissue): 



--Antal Dorati, Philharmonia Hungarica, Decca: 



--Thomas Fey, Heidelberger Sinfoniker, Hanssler--HIP on modern instruments.
--Sir Neville Marriner, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields, Philips--first class playing.
--Charles Dutoit, Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal, Decca--these performances are better than you might expect from Dutoit & his excellent orchestra, but not a first, second, or third choice, for me: Haydn: Symphony No. 82 in C Major, Hob.I:82 -"L'Ours" - 1. Vivace assai
--Douglas Boyd, Orchestre de Chambre de Paris, NoMadMusic--lively, vivacious readings that have a lot going for them: Haydn: Complete Paris Symphonies Nos. 82-87

(Gunther Herbig's Haydn is excellent too, with the Dresden Philharmonic, but I don't think they did the Paris Symphonies, only the London Symphonies 93-104. Some like Leonard Slatkin's Haydn, too, but I've not heard it. I've also not heard the conductor less Orpheus Chamber Orchestra's Haydn on DG, either)

To avoid,

I'd recommend that you avoid George Szell's Haydn in Cleveland, as I find his Haydn conducting to be too stiff & rigid & at times humorless and lacking in wit & charm. (Though Szell could be a different conductor when he got out of Cleveland, so you might try some of his Haydn in Vienna to see if you like it. But I'm not sure if they did No. 82...) I'm not overly crazy about Karajan's set of 'Paris' Symphonies in Berlin, either, but it's not bad.

II. On period instruments,

My top three:

1. Frans Bruggen, Orchestra of the 18th Century, Philips:
J. Haydn - Hob I:82 - Symphony No. 82 in C major "The Bear" (Brüggen)
1. Sigiswald Kuijken, Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, Virgin: Haydn: Symphonies Nos. 82 - 87 (the Paris Symphonies)
3. Bruno Weil, Tafelmusik, Sony--lively performances, with flawless intonation: Joseph Haydn / Symphony No. 82 in C major "L'Ours" (Weil)

Other top rated recordings that you may wish to consider,

--Nikolaus Harnoncourt, Concentus Musicus Wien, Deutsche Harmonia Mundi: Nikolaus Harnoncourt - Haydn: Paris Symphonies - Music. Harnoncourt fans need not hesitate.
--Giovanni Antonini, Kammerorchester Basel, Alpha--I've not heard this recording, but the cycle is getting favorable reviews, so it may be a top choice: Classical home listening: Haydn2032 Volume 11; Martin Suckling; Alan Bush
--Harry Christophers, The Handel & Haydn Society of Boston, Coro: Aisslinn Nosky, Harry Christophers Haydn: Symphonies Nos. 6 "Le matin" & 82 "L'ours"; Violin Concerto Album Reviews, Songs & More | AllMusic

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the period conductors Hogwood, Koopman, McGegan, or Pinnock have recorded No. 82.

I've not heard William Christie's set of 'Paris' Symphonies yet, but would very much like to, considering that he's one of my favorite Mozart conductors. Indeed Christie may well be a #1 choice here, at least it wouldn't surprise me at all if his 'Paris' performances lead the field (you can sample his No. 87 below, which, to my ears sounds fantastic!, but I couldn't find his No. 82 on You Tube):

Calendar - Haydn - The Paris Symphonies
No. 87: Haydn, Symphonie parisienne n°87 - Les Arts Florissants & William Christie @Philharmonie de Paris

Hope that helps.


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## Mister Meow (10 mo ago)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I have lots of choices now.


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

One clarification: Haenchen was born in Dresden but the chamber orchestra named for CPE Bach was founded (1969) and is still based in Berlin (as CPE had not much to do with Dresden it would have been a really odd name). I have not heard any of their Haydn recordings. 
Herbig recorded one or two discs with very early symphonies (I think 6-8 and another one) in addition to 93-104, but I am not aware of any of the Paris set. Neither did Szell or Beecham. I don't know if there are any historical recordings (more likely some broadcast tapes that were published much later?) of this piece. The earliest well known recording seems to be Ansermet's (ca. 1962).


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

My mistake, regarding the C.P.E. Bach chamber orchestra. I stand corrected. Thanks, Kreisler. I had long assumed they were a Dresden-based ensemble for three reasons (& didn't do my research, sorry): first, Harmut Haenchen, who was their founding conductor and remained their chief conductor for 34 years (to 2014), was born & trained in Dresden; secondly, Peter Schreier, who made a number of excellent recordings with them as a conductor (for Philips), was another Dresden-trained musician and long time resident of that great musical city; and thirdly, most of all, they play like Dresdeners!: In that they take a highly refined, texturally translucent, and classically restrained approach to Haydn that I would associate more with a Dresden tradition than I would with a Berlin one. In other words, to me, they sound a lot more like members of the Staatskapelle Dresden under Kempe or Suitner, than they do the Berlin Philharmonic under Karajan or Abbado. 

However, I now see that this is most likely due to their long association with Haenchen, who apparently created or molded their 'sound' according to his Dresden training. I also see that, in 1969, the ensemble was created from members of the once East German Staatskapelle Berlin, whose primary conductor in those days was Otmar Suitner (from 1964 to 1990), who had been the principal conductor of the Staatskapelle Dresden (from 1960 to 1964).

In any event, the sum of it is that like the Staatskapelle Dresden and Dresden Philharmonic (under Herbig), they play the music of Haydn extremely well. & like the Staatskapelle Dresden, they are highly attuned to (17th), 18th (&19th) century performance practices, without having to try to be HIP. Which I've noticed is another distinct characteristic of Dresden (& Leipzig) trained musicians that I certainly wouldn't associate with Herbert von Karajan & his Berlin sound, whatever Karajan's other strengths as a conductor may have been, but would most definitely associate with the more stylistically alert & aware conducting of both Haenchen & Schreier, in the music of F.J. Haydn, Mozart, &. J.S. & C.P. E. Bach.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks for the further clarification on whether Szell or Herbig recorded Haydn's Symphony No. 82. I didn't think they did, but I wasn't sure about Szell in Vienna. 

What do you think of Gunther Herbig's Haydn with the Dresden Philharmonic? (I think he's another underrated conductor, & a good orchestra builder, too ...)


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## Kreisler jr (Apr 21, 2021)

I am bit too young and grew up in West Germany; obviously classical music (incl. exporting recordings and famous collaborations with Western musicians) was fairly important for East Germany. Among their last big efforts were lots of Bach recordings before/around the big anniversary 1985. 
I think, Leipzig was always most obviously responsible for Bach and baroque despite the the Dresden Kreuzchor (and Helmut Koch did baroque recordings with Berlin forces). They had taken up some HIP influence (despite modern instruments) with the "Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum". In Dresden the trumpet player Güttler (who after the Fall of the Wall toured to support the rebuilding of the Frauenkirche) had founded the "Virtuosi Saxoniae", but it seems the Berlin based CPE Bach Kammerorchester was actually the oldest of these more specialized ensembles. (Of course it's a small country and (East) Berlin by far the largest city.)

I like the Herbig London symphonies and they must have been a very good option in the 1970s with their transparent sound, great woodwinds and overall lively tempi but when I re-listened to two discs a few months ago I found them also a bit neutral and occasionally "lightweight", e.g. the first movement of #98 is very fast and light.


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## SearsPoncho (Sep 23, 2020)

Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic. Fresh, dynamic, exuberant, red-blooded performance which is never bloated. Everything is clearly defined and lovingly played. It goes on my desert island, without hesitation.


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## CnC Bartok (Jun 5, 2017)

I am adding my voice to those who recommend Sigiswald Kuijken, in this and the next five "Paris" symphonies. These are lively, fresh performamces, and even if they were praised ad nauseam on their appearance, they have sttod the test of time, for me anyway.....

But then again, Antonini's newest Haydn disc contains The Bear, and it's a gem of a CD!


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## Great Uncle Frederick (Mar 17, 2021)

Another vote here for Bruno Weil and Tafelmusik!


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## Josquin13 (Nov 7, 2017)

Kreisler Jr. writes, "They had taken up some HIP influence (despite modern instruments) with the "Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum". In Dresden the trumpet player Güttler (who after the Fall of the Wall toured to support the rebuilding of the Frauenkirche) had founded the "Virtuosi Saxoniae""

Thanks for your reply. I have & like many recordings by those two groups. Ludwig Güttler is a fantastic trumpet player & musician. He built his "Virtuosi Saxonie" from principals in the Staatskapelle Dresden. But earlier, he also played a key role in establishing (or re-establishing) the "Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum" in Leipzig, which was likewise made up of top players from the Gewandhaus Orchestra, if I remember right. I especially like their Eurodisc recording of Bach's Mass in B minor with conductor Peter Schreier (now on Berlin Classics). It's one of the best, if not the finest Mass in B minors in the catalogue that is played on modern instruments, IMO. As a conductor, Schreier understood Baroque style a lot better than what was his competition back in those days, before the period movement took over, i.e., Richter, Karajan, Klemperer, Rilling, etc. & I still listen to that recording often, now decades later. But I also like many of Schreier's recordings in Dresden, too, for Philips, especially his Bach Christmas Oratorio and Mozart Requiem.


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