# Pitch questions



## Gijoefan1976 (Nov 25, 2017)

HI, THANKS to everyone that responded and helped me with my last topic / question I asked...

Like before please excuse me if I am breaking a rule I am unaware of... and if this is not the forum or site to ask this...

But if it is okay to ask this, thanks for your replies and advice...

My question is how do you know which A flat you could be looking for.... 

Is the idea that the c between the treble staff and the bass staff is not really middle c but really c 3

I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet but it looks like some consider C 4 as middle c

But I don't see how it could be that if the first f on the treble clef is f 3 like I am being lead to think..

Again thanks for any info even if it's only a long the lines of this type of question can't be asked


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## david johnson (Jun 25, 2007)

The C between staves is middle C. It sits between them, as in "the middle". Is that what you were asking?


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## Gijoefan1976 (Nov 25, 2017)

Thanks, I guess I am just confused how middle c can be given the C 3 yet some say middle c is c4 which is much higher than f3 yet if I read it right c4 is in a image below f3...

So I guess I should see middle C as C3 when it comes to matching pitch and not c4 like a Google search says...


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## Nate Miller (Oct 24, 2016)

Gijoefan1976 said:


> So I guess I should see middle C as C3 when it comes to matching pitch and not c4 like a Google search says...


In these situations, I always remember the words of my old teacher. "Music is hard and tricky"

Now, the C in the middle of the bass and treble clef is the fourth C you encounter on an 88 key piano, so a lot of people call it C4

I think there are some piano manufacturers that call that C3, which doesn't help the confusion at all

But then there is also the practice of writing male vocal parts in the treble clef, but the sounding note is an octave lower than written. Guitar music is like that, too. So sometimes the sheet is written in the treble clef for convenience, but it is understood that it is sounding an octave lower than written.

you could be holding a tenor part in your hand and the notes are in the upper part of the treble clef, which is pretty darn high if you go to the piano and bang them out where they are written.

If it is any good to you, middle C is the C a sixth below A440. Remember that and with a trusty tuning fork, you can find middle C

so first know if your sheet is written at pitch, or is meant to be sounded an octave lower. You can figure that out for yourself by finding middle C and then seeing if the part is even singable/playable in that register.


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## Gijoefan1976 (Nov 25, 2017)

Thank you Nate! I truly enjoyed reading that and truly thank you....

I am like before being told by my teacher that I am a Baritone so she is wanting me to sing lower parts than I have in the past sooo she chose Sea River but that version looked like it was all pretty much "Bass sounding" so I instead chose the version they had in the book of Bright is the ring of words which was the second choice she gave me...

Sooo I did pretty okay but I just wanted to make sure I was singing the pitch right as the part I was unsure about goes from a D# 3 to a f#3 and since that was lower pitch wise I was confused when I saw that middle c is 261.63 

I am now trying to learn josh Groban's "Remember when it Rained" but I think she told me I need to sing the Aflat 4 in full voice and I guess I did it while I was being coached but now that I am by myself I think I am doing it wrong and doing it in "Head voice" which is the right pitch but I don't think it sounds like it should and hopefully will once I learn how to always do it in full voice...


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## Barelytenor (Nov 19, 2011)

*Vaughn Williams Songs*

The entire Ralph Vaughn Williams "The House of Life" song cycle is incredibly rewarding for baritone, and "Songs of Travel" is too. These are wonderfully written and great practice for baritones. Only "Silent Noon" is (over) famous, but there are many other lovely songs. Two of my favorites are "Heart's Haven," No. 4 in "The House of Life," and "Let Beauty Awake," No. 2 from "Songs of Travel." Here is one of each:











The second baritone here, Roderick Williams, in particular exhibits marvelous breath control and meticulous attention to the words, phrasing, and dynamics that RVW chose.

Kind regards, :tiphat:

George


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