# Do you have prejudices regarding any composer?



## Bayreuth (Jan 20, 2015)

I can't stand Tchaikovsky since the very beginning. Too Disney-ish for me most of the time. So I kind of look somewhere else whenever our paths cross. I know it's bad and all of that, but I am sure some of you have the same unavoidable feeling about some other composers. :devil:


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## GioCar (Oct 30, 2013)

Sometimes I have the same feeling for Rachmaninov, his piano concertos and symphonies in particular.


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## SiegendesLicht (Mar 4, 2012)

I used to have a prejudice against Mozart, because he is just too popular, too mainstream. He is the one whose music women who have not a clue about classical music themselves, play to their babies hoping it will somehow magically turn them into geniuses. But I have got over it.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Rachmaninoff, Bruckner, Glazunov, Tchaikovsky, and Eric Whitacre.

The first four, at least, had talent. Eric Whitacre?


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Yes, but I can think of only a few offhand 

I am reticent to wholeheartedly embrace the music of composers whose music is deeply nationalistic, eg., the slew of Slavic composers with all of their folk melodies. Smetana comes to mind (I recently added Dvořák to my _hearem_ and have discovered some of Janáček's later works, however).

The English school of composers (I mentioned them in another thread yesterday), Elgar, Walton, Bax (actually Irish, I believe), Vaughan Williams and likely others, seem a bit nationalistic and stodgy (Elgar's chamber music turns out to be very nice, however, what little I have heard, as well as the Concertos; and I have received a most promising recommendation for an opera by Vaughan Williams recently).

I cannot locate the details, but, if my memory is correct, Vincent d'Indy was instrumental in ousting Camille Saint-Saëns from his position in some musical society. He showed himself to be such an @$$ that I have written him off. Luckily, his music is not much performed these days, anyway.

I don't wish to constantly have to come back to this, but American composers continually display _that American sound_, for want of a more precise term. As soon as I hear it, it's over between us. Copland, in his populist phase (his early output is surprisingly interesting!), raises hairs all over my body. The minimalists similarly. They sound like diluted classical music, intended to appeal to pop audiences, to give them a feeling of culture. As I stated elsewhere, I have discovered a few pieces that sound okay, but I'm interested in composers who are on my wave length, whose output I embrace rabidly, as opposed to composers who manage to write an occasional piece that is just okay.

There are probably a few others. All in all, I am quite accepting and open to most composers and their works and am continually breaking down my prejudices and adding even more composers to my collection and ears. Opera is subject to a recent campaign in this direction, for example, as are composers mentioned above and elsewhere.


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## Tristan (Jan 5, 2013)

Man, you guys are naming all my favorite composers, Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky in particular. I love Rachmaninov's dramatic flowing melodies that are found in his piano concerti and symphonies, but I can see how someone would find them "Disneyish"; sometimes they do sound like they could be the soundtrack to an emotional romantic movie.

But anyway, I guess I've had some prejudice against Wagner; I thought I'd find his operas a bit grating and tedious from some of the samples I'd heard. But there were numerous times when I heard an amazing orchestral piece on the radio and said to myself (what _was_ that?!), after I was blown away by it. And I was surprised to find out it was an excerpt from one of Wagner's operas. After actually listening to two of his operas in full (_Tristan_ and _Tannhäuser_), Wagner has become one of my all-time favorite opera composers. (And my prejudice against him surprisingly was only about music).

I do seem to have instant prejudice against any contemporary composers who use electronic instruments in their classical music, however. Doesn't mean I'll never give it a chance, but it's pretty much at the bottom of my list of music to get into. I also seem to be uninterested in exploring minimalism. That may change, however, as I'm always exploring new sub-genres.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

So far I always find at least one or a few pieces that I like from any of the big names. And that is enough for me to drop my bias, if I had any.
It's all thanks to the internet. Some people seem to limit themselves to recordings that they own and base their opinion of a composer on those few recordings. In that case you may indeed get the wrong impressions. I think everyone should listen to more stuff online to get a better overview of a composer's music and then form an opinion. No need to buy everything.


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## neoshredder (Nov 7, 2011)

Atonal Composers. Sounds like noise to me.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

SweetJesus said:


> I can't stand Tchaikovsky since the very beginning. Too Disney-ish for me most of the time. So I kind of look somewhere else whenever our paths cross. I know it's bad and all of that, but I am sure some of you have the same unavoidable feeling about some other composers. :devil:


It's fascinating that Tchaikovsky is "too Disney-ish", considering the composer died a full eight years before Walter Elias Disney was born. Perhaps if you contended that Disney was too Tchaikovsky-ish, your prejudice would gain greater validity. But Disney was less a composer than a cartoonist, and Tchaikovsky much more a composer than ever a cartoonist. I would also contend that Tchaikovsky was much more of a composer than ever was Disney as a cartoonist. But this is rather like comparing apples and oranges, or Russian ballet and mice.
Which might reveal a prejudice I have for a certain Russian composer.
Few composers move my heart in the way Tchaikovsky can. The Sixth Symphony (seeming to me a rewriting of Beethoven's triumphal Fifth) remains as stunning a portrait about wrestling with destiny, a destiny which crushes the protagonist and leaves him shattered and devastated, as was ever devised in art. It plumbs emotional heights and depths which Disney, at his most creative, could only glance at.
Yet, this same composer gave us the joyous_ Nutcracker _and the _Capriccio Italien_, two phenomenal piano concerti and a to-die-for violin concerto. If I find any shortcomings in Tchaikovsky's work, I rather chalk them up to my own lack of understanding. My prejudice for Pyotr Ilyich includes giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If I have prejudices towards the negative concerning music -- that is, prejudices towards music I _don't _like, I would name rap, hip-hop, and much minimalism. But I'm not so closed minded to not be prepared to listen to fostering arguments for these genres as music, should there be one out there who can eloquently make the case. I'm all ears.


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## Nereffid (Feb 6, 2013)

There are many composers whose music I tend not to like, but _prejudice_ is much too strong a word. Any of them could surprise me in the future, or have some good points already.


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## Oscarf (Dec 13, 2014)

No prejudice, only composers that I like more and less. In general my preference is for music from Bach and earlier or from Bruckner and later. Everything in the middle I own and listen to but not as often. I might get into trouble for saying this, but in general I find Mozart boring and is probably the composer I play less even though I have a significant number of CDs of his music. Schumann is another one I do not really get, I keep trying but I have never felt I should listen again to any of his music.


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## Joris (Jan 13, 2013)

TS, how about this? 



Great performance too


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

Saying "I generally don't like this composer's music, so I provably won't like this piece of music they wrote" isn't a prejudice, it's just learning from experience.

Actual prejudice: I'm kind of wary of Stockhausen because of the star child astrology mumbo jumbo.


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

Frank Zappa. Something about the name, the face and the moustache tells me his music is only going to induce the bad kind of WTF feeling.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

neoshredder said:


> Atonal Composers. Sounds like noise to me.


Music being a collection of noises and whatnot, I'm not sure I see the issue


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I guess so. Based on the last several months, if it ain't music by J.S. Bach, I simply don't listen.
Prejudice? Whatever.


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## Mandryka (Feb 22, 2013)

SweetJesus said:


> I can't stand Tchaikovsky since the very beginning. Too Disney-ish for me most of the time. So I kind of look somewhere else whenever our paths cross. I know it's bad and all of that, but I am sure some of you have the same unavoidable feeling about some other composers. :devil:


Beethoven for me, everything after op 10 and before op 110. And Shostakovich, except perhaps some of the very last music. And most of Schubert, apart the second piano trio.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Joris said:


> TS, how about this?
> 
> 
> 
> Great performance too


Answering only for myself... sorry,_ it's Tchaikovsky_.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I guess so. Based on the last several months, if it ain't music by J.S. Bach, I simply don't listen.


You've either arrived at the later life phase of a kind of clear and simple enlightenment, or your senior dotage. I think which depends very much upon who you ask.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

PetrB said:


> Answering only for myself... sorry,_ it's Tchaikovsky_.


Strangely enough, I think Tchaikovsky is the only composer whom I have a prejudice against. Every time I hear his name I think of pink bubble-gum cotton candy with extra sugar.

I may have to work on this bias a bit....


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

arcaneholocaust said:


> Music being a collection of noises and whatnot, I'm not sure I see the issue


I'm curious about the 'whatnot'.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

PetrB said:


> You've either arrived at the later life phase of a kind of clear and simple enlightenment, or your senior dotage. I think which depends very much upon who you ask.


Definitely the former. I still remember that it's Tuesday.

At this stage of the game, I prefer quiet, profoundly introspective music which transports me into a peaceful, consoling, pastoral dimension; to the Elysian Fields of my mind.

J.S. Bach's WTC and Keyboard Partitas provide the medium.

Am I prejudiced against the other composers who cannot transport me? Whatever!


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

A "prejudice" is a judgment or an emotional evaluation based on missing, insufficient, or incorrect information - a "pre-judgment." I try to avoid judging composers or works before I've heard them, but I sometimes do approach music with half-conscious expectations, based on something I've read or on previous experience with the same composer, and am then surprised by what I hear. One composer who can surprise me pleasantly is Vivaldi, the guy who "wrote the same concerto 500 times." It's nice to rediscover that in fact he didn't, and that he also wrote a ton of other stuff that's pretty brilliant and inventive. Baroque composers are easy to stereotype because they wrote so many notes; Telemann is another one whose creative diversity has been underestimated, though not by me.

A few major composers I tend to have negative feelings about that require an occasional reality check are Mozart, Mahler, Puccini, and Stravinsky. Actually I find much to like in all of these, but when I merely think about them certain images come to mind which fairness requires me to qualify. Not a big problem, really.


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## csacks (Dec 5, 2013)

Bach is the only one which provoques me that feeling. It is music to which I cannot connect with. As simple as that. I am not a big fan of baroque, but I can listen and enjoy to Haendel, Vivaldi, Tartini, even Palestrina, but Bach is stronger that me. It should be considered as the official definition of a prejudice


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I listen to virtually everybody so nope .

Perhaps I have a hard time getting into punk or heavy metal.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

ahammel said:


> I'm curious about the 'whatnot'.


Maybe: Whatnot = periods of silence


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Music I Dislike*

If a person is really interested in what other people dislike they should check out the following threads:

http://www.talkclassical.com/36013-what-music-have-you.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/35913-you-incapable-appreciating-certain.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/8239-there-great-composer-you.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/30356-unworthy.html

http://www.talkclassical.com/25062-unkind-5-composers.html

There are many others.

Classical music has such a rich diverse history it is impossible to like everything. All of us have our petty little biases. One of mine is Verdi.


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## mmsbls (Mar 6, 2011)

I don't think I have any prejudices now, but I'll share a humorous prejudice I used to have. When I first started to listen seriously to classical music, I still knew very little about many composers. I was working my way through a book that listed "Top" composers and their major works when I came to Dvorak. My first thought was that Dvorak would be awful (like those complex, non-melodic, weird sounding, non-musical composers - you know modern types ). I have no idea where I got that view, but I listened to his 9th symphony and simply couldn't believe what I was hearing. After then hearing the cello concerto I was quickly completely hooked.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

arpeggio said:


> If a person is really interested in what other people dislike they should check out the following threads:


But this thread really should be slightly different. You can dislike something without admitting it be being a prejudice (and if you admit it's a prejudice, you should try to overcome it). In practice, though, so many threads just become lists of likes or dislikes.

When I was younger I had all sorts of prejudices. I think I didn't _want_ to like certain composers for various reasons. I didn't like a lot of vocal music just because of the type of singing. I think that qualifies as a prejudice.

EDIT: now I might to admit to a prejudice against Paganini, assuming his works are all show. I probably haven't given them a chance.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

GreenMamba said:


> But this thread really should be slightly different. You can dislike something without admitting it be being a prejudice (and if you admit it's a prejudice, you should try to overcome it). In practice, though, so many threads just become lists of likes or dislikes.
> 
> When I was younger I had all sorts of prejudices. I think I didn't _want_ to like certain composers for various reasons. I didn't like a lot of vocal music just because of the type of singing. I think that qualifies as a prejudice.
> 
> EDIT: now I might to admit to *a prejudice against Paganini*, assuming his works are all show. I probably haven't given them a chance.


Have you heard any of his guitar music? I generally don't care for Paganini, and I'm not a big fan of guitar, but for some reason I like Paganini on guitar. Go figure.


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> If a person is really interested in what other people dislike they should check out the following threads:
> 
> http://www.talkclassical.com/36013-what-music-have-you.html
> 
> ...


Yes - there certainly seem to be a lot of "what don't you like" threads floating round at the moment! I guess defining yourself by what you don't like is important too. It's probably 19th century opera and ballet composers for me, with a few exceptions (notably Wagner)


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

brotagonist said:


> American composers continually display _that American sound_, for want of a more precise term.


Well, now, there's a prejudice fo sho.

What is the "American sound" in these pieces, pray tell?


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## LancsMan (Oct 28, 2013)

Cage, Stockhausen, Boulez. I have avoided their music for years. But I have just purchased a CD of string quartets which includes John Cage's String Quartet in Four Parts, and I was surprised to find the piece quite OK (who knows I might get even more enthusiastic after a second listen). Maybe it's time I sampled some Boulez and Stockhausen!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

No prejudices per se, just having a hard time digesting some of what I've heard, like most of the works of *Alfredo Casella*, which are tough nuts to crack. Another problematic composer is* Ture Rangstrom*, who has this tendency to over-score. *Peterson-Berger* is another one. His music is quite melodious, but his development and use of resources pale in comparison, to say, *Atterberg* (a great melodist, and quite a wizard with the orchestra). I regret to point out *Emil von Sauer*, because his music is often times beautifully written. But it can be too facile for its own good. *Piston* is a major American composer, but my goodness he's dry (much like *Blackwood*, though the latter more melodious and accessible).


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Karl Jenkins, Ludovico Einaudi, Eric Whitacre. Hardly classical music, but they always seem to end up on lists here and there as the most popular contemporary classical composers which makes me greatly annoyed.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

I can't stand modern avant garde music. This is not a prejudice just a reaction formed from trying to listen to it!


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## Orfeo (Nov 14, 2013)

SweetJesus said:


> I can't stand Tchaikovsky since the very beginning. Too Disney-ish for me most of the time. So I kind of look somewhere else whenever our paths cross. I know it's bad and all of that, but I am sure some of you have the same unavoidable feeling about some other composers. :devil:


Even his Manfred??? That kind of work would've scared Disney.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

GreenMamba said:


> But this thread really should be slightly different. You can dislike something without admitting it be being a prejudice (and if you admit it's a prejudice, you should try to overcome it). In practice, though, so many threads just become lists of likes or dislikes.
> 
> When I was younger I had all sorts of prejudices. I think I didn't _want_ to like certain composers for various reasons. I didn't like a lot of vocal music just because of the type of singing. I think that qualifies as a prejudice.
> 
> EDIT: now I might to admit to a prejudice against Paganini, assuming his works are all show. I probably haven't given them a chance.


OK. I have a prejudice against Verdi.

Samples of some of my anti-Verdi rants:

http://www.talkclassical.com/23274-perverse-approach-opera.html?highlight=orchestra#post403954

http://www.talkclassical.com/23129-leonard-bernstein.html?highlight=verdi#post403139

http://www.talkclassical.com/23704-opera-opera-haters.html?highlight=verdi#post416359

http://www.talkclassical.com/25062-unkind-5-composers.html?highlight=verdi#post447295

http://www.talkclassical.com/25661-were-being-mahlered-death-2.html?highlight=verdi#post465293

Verdi is a great composer. I have really tried and after all these years I still hear Violetta shrieking, "My God why must I die so young?"


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## dgee (Sep 26, 2013)

LancsMan said:


> Cage, Stockhausen, Boulez. I have avoided their music for years.


An interesting group - which to me seems about as coherent as announcing: "Bartok, Schoenberg, Ravel. I have avoided etc" (not analogs, of course!)

Not a criticism, but the good news is that the music of these three composers is far from a monolith - Kontakte and Teirkreis, Repons and Rituel, give it a go!


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## Dim7 (Apr 24, 2009)

DavidA said:


> I can't stand modern avant garde music. This is not a prejudice just a reaction formed from trying to listen to it!


Hence your post is off-topic


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm impressed that we went nearly two weeks without a brand new thread proclaiming Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov to be candy floss, or gummy bears, or ice lollies, or Disney movies, or soap operas, or grated cheese, or salted butter, or maple syrup, or _whatever will be the next one_ ...

I agree with SONNET CLV, and only wish that I could have said it half as well. :tiphat:


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

I would hate to see ArtMusic's list. I never could handle long books.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> OK. I have a prejudice against Verdi.
> 
> Samples of some of my anti-Verdi rants:
> 
> ...


The best music Verdi ever wrote, IMO is the humming chorus in Rigoletto, mimicking an approaching storm. Terrific and tense!


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

arcaneholocaust said:


> I would hate to see ArtMusic's list. I never could handle long books.


Oh no, ArtMusic isn't prejudiced! To ArtMusic it has to be fact, pure and simple!


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Karl Jenkins, Ludovico Einaudi, Eric Whitacre. Hardly classical music, but they always seem to end up on lists here and there as the most popular contemporary classical composers which makes me greatly annoyed.


Jennifer Higdon and Mason Bates topped some list, at least in the States, of most popular / most often performed.

I haven't heard later Higdon pieces, but unless she has been possessed entirely by another soul with different sensibilities.... Ditto for Bates 

There is plenty for everybody, though, of whatever variety.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> Oh no, ArtMusic isn't prejudiced! To ArtMusic it has to be fact, pure and simple!


Reminds me of the now oft in circulation, "You're allowed to form your own opinion, but not your own facts."


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## MoonlightSonata (Mar 29, 2014)

I used to be prejudiced against contemporary music. I think I've got over it now.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Any one noticed that this thread about "prejudice" got started on MLK Day?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I hate Beethoven for writing the most noble music, a musical code of ethics, if you will, the kind of profound moral code that seemed to be so lacking given his own behavior.


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

I used to have many prejudices. But now my like and dislikes are well-founded!


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Only Vogner. Just kidding.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I hate Wagner for not allowing Hitler to record his music in stereophonic sound.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I hate Beethoven for writing the most noble music, a musical code of ethics, if you will, the kind of profound moral code that seemed to be so lacking given his own behavior.


I love the fact that humans have depths that their surfaces cannot account for, that genius is no respecter of persons, that even scoundrels can exhibit greatness, that people who hardly know how to live can say profound things about life, that humanity is so great that even humanity can't ruin it.


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

hpowders said:


> a musical code of ethics if you will


I will not, thanks.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Triplets said:


> Any one noticed that this thread about "prejudice" got started on *MLK Day*?


*Acronym, Ohio.*______________


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I hate Beethoven for writing the most noble music, a musical code of ethics, if you will, the kind of profound moral code that seemed to be so lacking given his own behavior.


I have no empathy or sympathy for those who believe the artist and the artist's work are one and the same. Call _that_ a prejudice if you will


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

some guy said:


> What is the "American sound" in these pieces, pray tell?


I don't hear a trace of it.

I tied to open the links without looking, so as to be able to get an unbiased opinion. I succeeded in all but 2 cases, I think. Like PetrB has often said, however, I turned them all off after a few seconds to a couple of minutes  I guess I've either heard a lot of this kind of thing, or I'm just not much into it anymore. I know where this thing is going.

Here's what I thought:

#1 : reminds me of Pierre Henry; dated electronic, meh.
#2 : reminds me of Luc Ferrari, Ivo Malec, Iannis Xenakis; I like it.
#3 : reminds me of Morton Subotnick; ho-hum.
#4 : a weird performance art piece; blech.
#5 : reminds me of Feldman, vaguely; meh.
#6 : old garde electroacoustic or electronic; I like it.
#7 : reminds me of Partch; blech.

I keep thinking of PetrB's recent comments about a musical saturation point. Perhaps I have just heard too much and can't hear these things as original anymore  #2 and #6 would be worth exploring, when I'm in the mood for that sort of thing... but I could just put my Xenakis Electronic Music album on, too


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

hpowders said:


> I hate Beethoven for writing the most noble music, a musical code of ethics, if you will, the kind of profound moral code that seemed to be so lacking *given his own behavior*.


A genius within a human personality dealing with the everyday human crassness and stupidity, at least partly. imo...


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

It took me the longest time to give Engelbert Humperdinck a fair hearing.


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## Andolink (Oct 29, 2012)

To listen to the music of a composer and to not like what you hear (as the OP not liking Tchaikovsky) does not mean you're prejudiced toward the music of that composer. The word prejudice implies judging without sufficient exposure to fairly form an opinion.

A lot of what is being described in this thread seems to me to be more properly called *post*-judice


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Blancrocher said:


> It took me the longest time to give Engelbert Humperdinck a fair hearing.


This was easier to avoid when there was only one by that name in any form of reference you looked at. Lately, their is that damned side-track distraction of the long-dead one hit wonder has-been classical composer to confuse the issue


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## jim prideaux (May 30, 2013)

so I listen to (the oft dismissed ) Glazunov, Kalinnikov, Myaskovsky, Prokofiev,Medtner and I think-'right now must be the time that Tchaikovsky will appeal' because for years I have just not enjoyed his music........turn to his symphonies, and well, no it just does not work for me!

Walton, Finzi, Tippett, Moeran, Holst........surely Elgar might now prove a little more interesting than he used to...no again!

and as for the possibility of reconsidering the Electric Light Orchestra!


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

It's funny, before I even clicked on this thread and saw the first post, I thought "Tchaikovsky". And there he was! The funny thing is, technically speaking, I think Tchaikovsky is a really good composer. There is just something about his particular sense of melody that gets on my wick.


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## DeepR (Apr 13, 2012)

Andolink said:


> To listen to the music of a composer and to not like what you hear (as the OP not liking Tchaikovsky) does not mean you're prejudiced toward the music of that composer. The word prejudice implies judging without sufficient exposure to fairly form an opinion.
> 
> A lot of what is being described in this thread seems to me to be more properly called *post*-judice


Except that exposure is often insufficient, which leads to generalization.
And depending how you look at it, it is still prejudice against every single piece of a composer that you didn't give a thorough listen, until that prejudice is either confirmed or not, down to the very last piece.


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## geralmar (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm wary of any composer who includes a slide whistle in any work. This pretty much lets Mahler off the hook.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

geralmar said:


> I'm wary of any composer who includes a slide whistle in any work. This pretty much lets Mahler off the hook.


Ligeti and...who else?


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2015)

Fagotterdammerung said:


> It's funny, before I even clicked on this thread and saw the first post....


Even funnier, before I saw the poster handle of the guy who started this thread, I though "Oh sweet Jesus...."


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Different strokes. *JS Bach's* solo keyboard strikes me as agitative music. Quick, repetitive notes to do clothes washing by. The churning of a Maytag is easily transferable to the human attendant.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I have a prejudice toward Sibelius. I'm annoyed he quit composing with so many years left to him. Perhaps another violin concerto....


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

Mahlerian said:


> Ligeti and...who else?


Bob Dylan (Highway 61)


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

John Cage, Xenakis, Stockhausen are the big names ones.


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## Richannes Wrahms (Jan 6, 2014)

Mahlerian said:


> Ligeti and...who else?


Ravel in L'enfant et les sortilèges.


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## Chronochromie (May 17, 2014)

ArtMusic said:


> John Cage, Xenakis, Stockhausen are the big names ones.


I avoid them too, perhaps unfairly.


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

ArtMusic said:


> John Cage, Xenakis, Stockhausen are the big names ones.


prejudice
noun
1. preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

glad to see you're finally recognizing this as such

-

I mentioned on another thread that hearing so many Beecham jokes/attacks at the expense of Malcolm Sargeant prejudiced me against taking him seriously...and still I can feel the pull or the influence of that, even after hearing many fine recordings.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Der Leiermann said:


> I avoid them too, perhaps unfairly.


That's why this thread asks if we have any _prejudice_ regarding any of them. I have listened to pieces by the three I named, but I was far from impressed by the pieces, hence my "prejudice". (I have spent more fruitful time by listening to other 20th century composers that I enjoy, such as Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff, Vaugh-Williams to name three great ones.)


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

I just finished reading through this thread and am surprised by the number of posts "downing" on modern/contemporary composers and their music. Just for the record -- my formal listening session tonight (i.e. -- headphones in a darkened room, no distractions, just concentrating on the music) consisted of three works: Luciano Berio's _Chemins IIb _for Orchestra (1970), Jean Barraque's _Sequence_ (1950-55), and Mark Andre's _AB II _(1997). Not a hummable melody in the lot, and it doesn't get much better than that!


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

*Give Me a Break Again*



SONNET CLV said:


> I just finished reading through this thread and am surprised by the number of posts "downing" on modern/contemporary composers and their music. Just for the record -- my formal listening session tonight (i.e. -- headphones in a darkened room, no distractions, just concentrating on the music) consisted of three works: Luciano Berio's _Chemins IIb _for Orchestra (1970), Jean Barraque's _Sequence_ (1950-55), and Mark Andre's _AB II _(1997). Not a hummable melody in the lot, and it doesn't get much better than that!


I have been locking horns with anti-modernists for over fifty years and they keep using the same old arguments over and over. They did not work fifty years ago and modern music is still here.

And they never answer the question, so what is you point?

So what if the last great composer was Shostakovich? I remember fifty years ago most people who listen to classical music considered Shostakovich was a hack. When I was an undergraduate at the University of North Caroling Greensboro back in the 1960's most of my fellow music majors, including some of the faculty, considered Shostakovich to be too modern. Back in the 1960's the only decent recording of the Shostakovich _Seventh_ was the Bernstein with the New York Phil. Now there are over a few dozen outstanding recordings.

I do not understand what some are trying to accomplish by constantly starting threads implying that contemporary is unworthy? Should the members who enjoy contemporary music be banned from participating in this forum? Some of the above members have suggested that all discussions concerning music they deem unworthy should be segregated.

No matter how smart a person is it impossible to know and appreciate everything there is about classical music. That is why many of us participate in these forums, to fill in the many gaps in our knowledge. I do not see how we can have an effective forum if we suppress discussion of all music that has been composed in the past fifty years.

They succeeded in doing that in another forum and as a result killed it.

Many of us do not care what other people hate. Does anybody here care what I hate? We consider threads like this counterproductive. We learn much more from reading what other people like.

Sonnet, I do not care if you like Berio. If it make you happy listen away. :tiphat:


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## KenOC (Mar 7, 2011)

arpeggio said:


> I have been locking horns with anti-modernists for over fifty years...Many of us do not care what other people hate.


If you don't care, why "lock horns" over such a long period of time? Is there something you expect to achieve?


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

arpeggio said:


> *I have been locking horns with anti-modernists for over fifty years and they keep using the same old arguments over and over. They did not work fifty years ago and modern music is still here.
> 
> And they never answer the question, so what is you point?*
> 
> ...


I'm really at a loss as to what you're up to here. Your post and the preceding one by SONNET CLV prompted me to look back over this thread in search of that "surprising number" of posts he cites as "downing" contemporary music. The only thing that surprised me - no, it actually didn't - is that actual negative comments about contemporary music are few and far between.

We've been asked to name composers we have "prejudices" about. People have mostly taken this to mean composers they find it hard to enjoy. Well, all right, some people have mentioned contemporary composers, or composers considered "modern" but no longer really contemporary. Other people have have mentioned composers of earlier periods, many of widely conceded excellence and long-established popularity. Many people have mentioned both. There's no pattern to it. There is nothing whatever in the evident purpose of this thread which implies _anything_ about contemporary music, much less that it is "unworthy." Nor do I see in any post any "arguments" to that effect. You may have been participating in arguments like that all your life, but as far as this thread is concerned it would appear that you can take some time out.

So I have to ask you the same thing you are asking: What is your point? But I also have to ask: Do you really see an effort on TC to suppress discussion of all music composed within the last fifty years? If it's your purpose to make an issue out of who on this forum might be trying to "suppress" what, I might suggest that closer examination might provide some alternative perspectives.

But it's probably best not to go there at all.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Well, let's not let this get out of hand - no one is suppressing anything, we're all free to have our opinions about music and that's the way it should be. Some people have mentioned contemporary music - I, as well, so far, haven't 'connected' with that musical form, but I'm not saying it'll never happen. Perhaps I don't know the nuances that modern composers are referring to, or I lack theoretical knowledge to fully appreciate their music. So I can't really form an opinion about contemporary music, as of yet. I've heard some pieces performed at my city's conservatory, and I thought some of them were quite curious. So it's all good, let's not get carried away with 'bashing' anything, better to discuss.


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

Occasionally I switch on the radio at random and my ears are assaulted by something so awful I put the composer on a mental blacklist without further investigation. A little while ago Radio 3 was playing a piece which got right up my nose. There was a l-o-n-g note, followed by another long note a tone or so higher, then another long note slightly lower....and on and relentlessly on it went...a series of stretched out notes each a bit higher or a bit lower than the one before. I carried on listening with the same sort of motivation that makes you look when someone has been injured in an accident. Finally it finished, and the composer was revealed as.....Arvo Part. I can't remember what the piece was; doesn't matter anyway as he's out of my musical life.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2015)

Can't be as bad as that short note, short note, short note, long note/short note, short note, short note, long note/short note, short note, short note, long note ad infinitum piece that just seems to never end.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2015)

some guy said:


> Can't be as bad as that short note, short note, short note, long note/short note, short note, short note, long note/short note, short note, short note, long note ad infinitum piece that just seems to never end.


Not that one that begins in C minor and ends up "triumphantly" in C major? Nah, not Terry Riley !!


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## Chris (Jun 1, 2010)

On the subject of long notes, does renaissance polyphony ever have speeds other than slow, very slow, and cataleptic?


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

This debate has been going of for years.

One can easily find many threads that are attempts to invalidate contemporary music. Like the former very active member who claimed that his primary motivation for joining the forum was to "attack contemporary music". I think is was in the "What is your purpose coming here?" Thread.

Sonnet, I apologize if my post came off badly to you. I respect your desire to listen and freely discuss whatever music you enjoy, even if it is Verdi.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

Chris said:


> On the subject of long notes, does renaissance polyphony ever have speeds other than slow, very slow, and cataleptic?


Yes? I think what you're perceiving as "slowness" is the slow rate of harmonic change. That music is never really _fast_, but it's not especially slow.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm prejudiced against all English composers after Byrd - a national prejudice as well as a musical one, which is really indefensible. In many cases I have never given their music anything like a fair hearing. This includes everyone from Purcell to Elgar to the "new complexity" guys. I'm well aware that it makes no sense to lump these people together. Nonetheless, I don't expect this to change any time soon.

I'm also prejudiced against Saint-Saens and Franck, again, with no real justification. I'm not sure I've ever listened to any of their music from beginning to end.


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## GreenMamba (Oct 14, 2012)

SONNET CLV said:


> I just finished reading through this thread and am surprised by the number of posts "downing" on modern/contemporary composers and their music.


The first four posts of this thread have two votes each "against" Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff. If that's permitted (and it should be), then you can't very well complain that others have criticized contemporary composers.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

All of us have a list of great composers we can not stand. We all also have a large list of not so great composers that we like. 

What I have never received satisfactory answer for is what a person is trying to accomplish by carrying on a crusade against a composer they dislike whether it is Tchaikovsky or Boulez. There have been a few occasions where a person admitted to me that they feel classical music is dying and may be dead. They believe the cause of its demise is modern music.

No one has ever answered this question. Does anyone really care to see a list of the composers that I hate? If I would provide such a list what would it accomplish other than irritate the members who happen to like the composers on the list?


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I'm really at a loss as to what you're up to here. Your post and the preceding one by SONNET CLV prompted me to look back over this thread in search of that "surprising number" of posts he cites as "downing" contemporary music. The only thing that surprised me - no, it actually didn't - is that actual negative comments about contemporary music are few and far between.
> 
> We've been asked to name composers we have "prejudices" about. People have mostly taken this to mean composers they find it hard to enjoy. Well, all right, some people have mentioned contemporary composers, or composers considered "modern" but no longer really contemporary. Other people have have mentioned composers of earlier periods, many of widely conceded excellence and long-established popularity. Many people have mentioned both. There's no pattern to it. There is nothing whatever in the evident purpose of this thread which implies _anything_ about contemporary music, much less that it is "unworthy." Nor do I see in any post any "arguments" to that effect. You may have been participating in arguments like that all your life, but as far as this thread is concerned it would appear that you can take some time out.
> 
> ...


I thought there were at least as many attacks on Tchaikovsky as on modernists in this thread.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2015)

It's true. [Edit: about what arpeggio said.]

I mentioned once that I could easily say that I disliked Bax, but that I didn't because that would benefit no one. And just doing _that_ had some bad results among Bax fans. I wish I'd never said that, actually.

I feel like listening to Bax until I like his music, just so I can take the sting of that away.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Or (speaking for me), absence makes the heart grow fonder, by not listening :devil:


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

some guy said:


> It's true. [Edit: about what arpeggio said.]
> 
> I mentioned once that I could easily say that I disliked Bax, but that I didn't because that would benefit no one. And just doing _that_ had some bad results among Bax fans. I wish I'd never said that, actually.
> 
> I feel like listening to Bax until I like his music, just so I can take the sting of that away.


The difference is when you say you dislike Bax you do not mean it to be an indirect criticism of those who appreciate Bax. There are many composers we disagree on. So what? There are many more that we do agree on.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

hpowders said:


> I have a prejudice toward Sibelius. I'm annoyed he quit composing with so many years left to him. Perhaps another violin concerto....


I thought you might bite on my *JS Bach* thingie (a tease, more than belief).

Re *Sibelius*, many still have not discovered his extensive string quartet output, as evidenced by three BIS volumes.:tiphat:


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Vaneyes said:


> Different strokes. *JS Bach's* solo keyboard strikes me as agitative music. Quick, repetitive notes to do clothes washing by. The churning of a Maytag is easily transferable to the human attendant.


Yes. On piano, which is ill suited to Bach's music and always makes it sound dull and mechanical, which the harpsichord NEVER does.

Agitative? Listen to any of the sarabandes from the Bach keyboard partitas or the allemande from the fourth keyboard partita, specifically. The word is "profound".


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Hehe, I've tried to 'help out' Telemann on this board, but no one seems interested to discuss him. Oh well, I still think he's one of the greatest baroque composers and I'll be sticking to that view.


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## Skilmarilion (Apr 6, 2013)

arpeggio said:


> I have been locking horns with anti-modernists for over fifty years and they keep using the same old arguments over and over. They did not work fifty years ago and modern music is still here...


Fine. I don't see how this is relevant to this thread.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Hehe, I've tried to 'help out' Telemann on this board, but no one seems interested to discuss him. Oh well, I still think he's one of the greatest baroque composers and I'll be sticking to that view.


I agree with you. Telemann has always been the victim of "the odious comparison," but the guy he's always compared to thought pretty well of him. With recordings proliferating and the sheer scope of Telemann's achievement becoming clear (he's said to have written as much music as Bach and Handel put together, and the variety is tremendous), it seems to me that his reputation has risen.


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

some guy said:


> It's true. [Edit: about what arpeggio said.]
> 
> I mentioned once that I could easily say that I disliked Bax, but that I didn't because that would benefit no one. And just doing _that_ had some bad results among Bax fans. I wish I'd never said that, actually.
> 
> I feel like listening to Bax until I like his music, just so I can take the sting of that away.


Disliking Bax? What what. *drops monocle* That's so evil it's like using puppies for batting practice _while listening to Barraqué_. You should apologize to all of Bax's 3.2 fans.


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## Fagotterdammerung (Jan 15, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> I agree with you. Telemann has always been the victim of "the odious comparison," but the guy he's always compared to thought pretty well of him. With recordings proliferating and the sheer scope of Telemann's achievement becoming clear (he's said to have written as much music as Bach and Handel put together, and the variety is tremendous), its seems to me that his reputation has risen.


Telemann always seems well-liked by the musicians I've known, but then he wrote for just about all of them at one time or another.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

Fagotterdammerung said:


> Telemann always seems well-liked by the musicians I've known, but then he wrote for just about all of them at one time or another.


Indeed he did. He'd have written a concerto grosso for spoons, jug and rubber band if someone had comissioned it. And it would have exploited perfectly the capabilities of those instruments.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2015)

Woodduck said:


> Indeed he did. He'd have written a concerto grosso for spoons, jug and rubber band if someone had comissioned it. And it would have exploited perfectly the capabilities of those instruments.


Well, someone would have had to invent the rubber band, first.

Hindemith, now. He could easily have done so.


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## Manxfeeder (Oct 19, 2010)

Fagotterdammerung said:


> Disliking Bax? What what. *drops monocle* That's so evil it's like using puppies for batting practice _while listening to Barraqué_. You should apologize to all of Bax's 3.2 fans.


Make that 4.2.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> Indeed he did. He'd have written a concerto grosso for spoons, jug and rubber band if someone had comissioned it. And it would have exploited perfectly the capabilities of those instruments.


Telemann was a genius when it came to orchestral sound and ways in combining sonorities. He might be one of the all-time greats in that department, imo.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Woodduck said:


> I agree with you. Telemann has always been the victim of "the odious comparison," but the guy he's always compared to thought pretty well of him. With recordings proliferating and the sheer scope of Telemann's achievement becoming clear (he's said to have written as much music as Bach and Handel put together, and the variety is tremendous), it seems to me that his reputation has risen.


Well, it has risen, but still I can't find anyone on this board willing to discuss his music. Oh well, guess we have PMs for this reason .

If anyone is feeling a Tele-vibe coming on, here a snippet from my Youtube channel:






(Oboe Concerto in E minor - I. Andante)


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## Giordano (Aug 10, 2014)

I am not prejudiced against Telemann. Neither do I ignore him. 

Telemann 12 Fantasias for Flute - Claire Guimond


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## spradlig (Jul 25, 2012)

Alfred Schnittke, because his name is so dull-sounding. I've never actually heard any of his music. That definitely is a prejudice.

I don't care for most of Mendelssohn's "biggest hits", so I used to avoid him. Recently, I've discovered that I like some of his moderately popular and less popular works very much (e.g. his two "grown-up" piano concertos).


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I notice quite a lot of interest in Telemann here - (at least compared to other non-Bach Baroque composers). In addition to those expressing interest in this thread I know Taggart, Ingelou, clavichorder, StLukes and neoshredder are all fans and there is another poster with Rubenstein in his avatar that just put in current listening the other day that he though Telemann is as great as Bach. If I recall correctly there was another similar thread before comparing Telemann to Bach. At any rate I do agree he was an excellent composer.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

HaydnBearstheClock said:


> Well, it has risen, but still I can't find anyone on this board willing to discuss his music. Oh well, guess we have PMs for this reason .
> 
> If anyone is feeling a Tele-vibe coming on, here a snippet from my Youtube channel:
> 
> ...


It can be difficult to find people to discuss knowledgeably the music we like. I'd happily discuss T with you if I knew more. I was largely oblivious to him till a few years ago, and I suspect many others more or less missed him him when their music studies gave but a polite nod in his direction. When I was in college I was briefly in the chorus of the "Telemann Society," a group based in Boston which was making recordings of his work in an effort to make people more aware of him. I wasn't impressed with the group's leaders, a man and wife who had an odd concept of choral singing, and I don't think their recordings would hold up well now, but it was a worthy effort at the time. Telemann must have been quite the energizer bunny to have accomplished all he did in his admittedly long life. Makes me feel like a lazy bum thinking about it.


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## HaydnBearstheClock (Jul 6, 2013)

Giordano said:


> I am not prejudiced against Telemann. Neither do I ignore him.
> 
> Telemann 12 Fantasias for Flute - Claire Guimond


Thanks for the link! Listening to them now .


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## ahammel (Oct 10, 2012)

spradlig said:


> Alfred Schnittke, because his name is so dull-sounding. I've never actually heard any of his music. That definitely is a prejudice.


Well, it's definitely not dull-sounding


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

spradlig said:


> Alfred Schnittke, because his name is so dull-sounding. I've never actually heard any of his music. That definitely is a prejudice.


Schnittke sounds like a cross between schnitzel and latke. I haven't found most of his music very tasty, but not because of his name, so I guess it's not a prejudice. More like a dietary preference.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I used to have lots of classical music prejudices  I've gotten over most of them (see above, page one or so).

One of my old prejudices was against Prokofiev, who is now one of my many _hearem_ composers. I think it was that I associated him with Peter and the Wolf so strongly, that I couldn't think of him as more than a children's composer. It was in my early exploratory years when I was heavily into nothing but avant garde, and Prokofiev just didn't sound it, which served only to further entrench my view :lol:


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Woodduck said:


> I'm really at a loss as to what you're up to here. Your post and the preceding one by SONNET CLV prompted me to look back over this thread in search of that* "surprising number"* of posts he cites as "downing" contemporary music. The only thing that surprised me - no, it actually didn't - is that actual negative comments about contemporary music are few and far between.


Please, Woodduck. I know you are much more astute than to purposely misquote me, and to thus lead others to a possible misunderstanding of my words. Here is what I said:

I just finished reading through this thread and *am surprised by the number *of posts "downing" on modern/contemporary composers and their music. 

Certainly, "to be surprised by the number" (which _can_ refer to a low number) and a "surprising number" (which may_ imply _a large number) do not necessarily correlate.

Of course, they _can_ correlate, too. But unless one knows for sure what another means by his surprise at a number, one should hold off judgments about the other. Such premature judging may be construed as a prejudice.

Unless that's what you had in mind in this thread concerning prejudices?

By the way, yesterday I also ordered the DUX set of Complete Symphonies by Penderecki and am looking forward to hearing them. (I already have the symphonies on assorted other labels, but the DUX set seems promising.)

As for Telemann ... a short while back I pulled in the 29-disc Telemann Edition Box set from Brilliant Classics and have been enjoying the recordings.

Rather than pine about music of this or that era, I prefer listening to it.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> Rather than pine about music of this or that era, I prefer listening to it.


Well said. That's where I want to get to. I hereby revoke all of my dislikes, prejudices and negative impressions in order to simply listen as the urge compels.


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## Woodduck (Mar 17, 2014)

SONNET CLV said:


> Please, Woodduck. I know you are much more astute than to purposely misquote me, and to thus lead others to a possible misunderstanding of my words. Here is what I said:
> 
> I just finished reading through this thread and *am surprised by the number *of posts "downing" on modern/contemporary composers and their music.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if I offended you. I wasn't judging you, but only the apparent implication of your statement. Aren't you quibbling a bit, though? You said you were surprised by the number of posts "downing" contemporary music, and my point was simply that a few remarks by people who didn't care for certain contemporary music on a thread asking people what music they were prejudiced about could scarcely be surprising to anyone. Were you honestly surprised by it? What would you have expected instead? That most prejudice or dislike would be for Haydn and Tchaikovsky?

My comment was really directed more toward arpeggio's post, which used yours as a springboard for - well, I won't try to characterize it further here, since I've already said what I wanted to say. I take it then that you disagree with the way he extrapolated or built upon your observation? I don't see you taking exception to his remarks, although he, too, clearly finds in this thread a significant number of slams against contemporary music.

All I want to do is counter the notion, which I sense in your post and his, that there is any such bias or any such issue raised by the thread. If you're saying that you actually agree with this, and that my impression of your comment was incorrect, I thank you for the correction.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm generally prejudiced against composers who give cheesy names to their pieces, like "Meditations on Infinite Light" or "The Beauty of Forests Makes Me Cry." I'll still listen to them and often like them, but it's always a bit of a challenge for me to start with. I wish composers would just stick to dignified titles like "Violin Concerto #2."


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## Pip (Aug 16, 2013)

SweetJesus said:


> I can't stand Tchaikovsky since the very beginning. Too Disney-ish for me most of the time. So I kind of look somewhere else whenever our paths cross. I know it's bad and all of that, but I am sure some of you have the same unavoidable feeling about some other composers. :devil:


I don't know how Disneyish can be used as a description except that Disney cartoonised the Nutcracker suite for the film Fantasia in 1940, but as Tchaikovsky had been dead since 1893, it is hardly his responsibility what anyone used his music for after his death.
However, the Manfred Symphony and the Operas Pique Dame, Eugene Onegin and Mazeppa have a great deal of Tchaikovsky's darkest and greatest music in them.
But for Disney and Stokowski, a great many people would still be unaware of works by Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Bach, ect.


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## ArtMusic (Jan 5, 2013)

Telemann is often prejudiced, as a testament to lack of understanding of Baroque aesthetics, and 18th century aesthetics in general, in my opinion.


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

I'm prejudiced against random Romantic symphonists that some people claim wrote the most underrated and epic music evaaarrr, especially if I can't pronounce their name. This combination of Romantic Era + I've never heard of them + the rabid "SO MUCH EPICNESS" fanboyness usually is a recipe for bombastic mediocrity. I keep an open mind, but I tend to get around to listening to these composers after much reluctance.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

violadude said:


> I'm prejudiced against random Romantic symphonists that some people claim wrote the most underrated and epic music evaaarrr, especially if I can't pronounce their name. This combination of Romantic Era + I've never heard of them + the rabid "SO MUCH EPICNESS" fanboyness usually is a recipe for bombastic mediocrity. I keep an open mind, but I tend to get around to listening to these composers after much reluctance.


Oh but you REALLY must listen to Louise Farrenc's 3rd symphony! She wrote the most underrated epic music evaaarrr!!!!!


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

^^I agree with Violadude. Most of those "romantic" composers one has never heard of are obscure for good reason.
They are basically note-spinners with little to say.
Case in point, the over-blown, dull Joachim violin concerto. Pales beside the Brahms.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

hpowders said:


> ^^I agree. Most of those "romantic" composers one has never heard of are obscure for good reason.
> They are basically note-spinners with little to say.
> Case in point, the over-blown, dull Joachim violin concerto. Pales beside the Brahms.


Even so, I kind of like the "Unsung Masterworks" channel on Youtube; there's relaxing and sometimes lovely music. I sometimes pretend it's all Rachmaninov under different names--sort of a higher-order Segerstam.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

Blancrocher said:


> Even so, I kind of like the "Unsung Masterworks" channel on Youtube; there's relaxing and sometimes lovely music. I sometimes pretend it's all Rachmaninov under different names--sort of a higher-order Segerstam.


I'm so not into the Romantic Era. I'm one cold dude!!


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

violadude said:


> I'm prejudiced against random Romantic symphonists that some people claim wrote the most underrated and epic music evaaarrr, especially if I can't pronounce their name. This combination of Romantic Era + I've never heard of them + the rabid "SO MUCH EPICNESS" fanboyness usually is a recipe for bombastic mediocrity. I keep an open mind, but I tend to get around to listening to these composers after much reluctance.


I'll admit it, I'm biased against anything that someone defends simply by saying "this composer didn't write that godawful noisy atonal junk."

If the music has merits, please bring them up. It *not* being something else that you dislike is not in any sense a merit.

On a related note: when will people realize that "listenable" is about as backhanded a compliment as one can imagine?


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## Heliogabo (Dec 29, 2014)

Strauss waltzes, salon music. Almost every opera and ballets (some exceptions nevertheless, but few) i find that artificial and false.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm annoyed that Leonard Bernstein didn't spend more time with serious composing.
Anyone who could turn out the incredibly beautiful score for West Side Story has deprived me of who knows how many great sonatas, concertos, orchestral symphonies, etc;


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

I explore everything as I experience an interest in it and a desire for it.


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

Dim7 said:


> Frank Zappa. Something about the name, the face and the moustache tells me his music is only going to induce the bad kind of WTF feeling.


I happen to love FZ's mustache and face. It has a lot of character. Just like his music. But no matter what the music or trappings associated with it, why make assumptions?


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm really pissed at Charles Ives. After scoring big time with the Concord piano sonata, he never attempted another ambitious work in this category.

Why, Charlie?


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> On a related note: when will people realize that "listenable" is about as backhanded a compliment as one can imagine?


Better than unlistenable. It's the difference between an eatable hotdog and an uneatable dog turd. I'll take the former.

Quite often my "listenable" charts have stepped into greatness. It's all to do with the listener.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Blake said:


> Better than unlistenable. It's the difference between an eatable hotdog and an uneatable dog turd. I'll take the former.
> 
> Quite often my "listenable" charts have stepped into greatness. It's all to do with the listener.


I've had too much of the music I love relegated to the "unlistenable" bin by others to take it seriously as a label. I don't use the term myself because it's essentially a personal reaction (I find this unlistenable at this moment) that purports to be a description of the actual music (there is something about this music which is essentially unpalatable to me/humanity). Usually, it's not even literally true for the individual who uses it.


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## Blake (Nov 6, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I've had too much of the music I love relegated to the "unlistenable" bin by others to take it seriously as a label. I don't use the term myself because it's essentially a personal reaction (I find this unlistenable at this moment) that purports to be a description of the actual music (there is something about this music which is essentially unpalatable to me/humanity). Usually, it's not even literally true for the individual who uses it.


Yea, I try to avoid terms like that simply out of consideration. This stuff is taken seriously by a lot of folks, you know.

Then again, the extreme dynamics in opinions can be a necessary contrast in shining some light on the more reasonable.


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Blake said:


> It's the difference between an eatable hotdog and an uneatable dog turd. I'll take the former.


Let's not contemplate the difference between an inedible hot dog and an edible dog turd


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## brotagonist (Jul 11, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> I've had too much of the music I love relegated to the "unlistenable" bin by others to take it seriously as a label. I don't use the term myself because it's essentially a personal reaction (I find this unlistenable at this moment) that purports to be a description of the actual music (there is something about this music which is essentially unpalatable to me/humanity). Usually, it's not even literally true for the individual who uses it.


Since I got into classical in my late teens, and that began with a turgid hear-on for the Darmstadt and Neue Wiener Schulen, my music has been described as either unlistenable, weird, bizarre or not music, so I have gotten used to it, too 

I am trying to begin to make an effort to stop labelling music this way myself. Usually, it just means that it is not interesting to me at this point in time, because my attention happens to be 100% focussed on something else.


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## arpeggio (Oct 4, 2012)

hpowders said:


> I'm really pissed at Charles Ives. After scoring big time with the Concord piano sonata, he never attempted another ambitious work in this category.
> 
> Why, Charlie?


Too busy making money selling life insurance.


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

To answer the original question posed
No, having prejudices is too hard work in my book


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I have only the prejudices I'm supposed to have. Light music sucks. 

And I do not have the prejudices that I'm supposed to flaunt not having. Bring on the modernism!


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I should also add: Nothing before Monteverdi! The Renaissance is for losers.

I guess I have to add that this is sarcasm.


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## 20centrfuge (Apr 13, 2007)

I feel Mahler to be too melo-dramatic, Shostakovich to be too bitter. That doesn't mean I dislike all of their music, but I'm not always a fan of those musical personalities.


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