# Colin Davis and Sibelius



## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Is Colin Davis' Boston cycle unquestionably the best of his three Sibelius cycles (over the LSO/RCA and LSO Live cycles)?
I'd like to hear Davis' Sibelius and am wondering which set to go for. Boston seems to come in for the highest praise, but you get more bang for your buck (tone poems etc) with the (cheaper) RCA set... 
Any advice welcome. Thanks very much!


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

I would tentatively suggest that the Boston cycle on Philips is the more highly-regarded but there do appear to be as many Davis detractors as there are admirers amongst Sibelians. Just thought I'd say that before you get the 'none of them' kind of replies to your original question.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

elgars ghost said:


> ... there do appear to be as many Davis detractors as there are admirers amongst Sibelians.


Yes, I have noticed that! Based on what, I wonder? 
My interest has been piqued by a) hearing that Davis does 3 and 6, perhaps my favourites, very well and b) the following Amazon review the Davis/Boston set:

_"If you want windswept forestscapes and lakes, then go for Berglund or Segerstam; high drama, Rozhdestvensky; mythic romantic narrative,Barbirolli, Ashkenazy or Ormandy; but if you want to reach deep into the dark heart of the Sibelian imagination, delved into and explored with utter intellectual rigour, uncompromising passionate engagement and a truly revelatory spiritual journey, then these have never been surpassed."_


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## fjf (Nov 4, 2014)

Ah, opinions, opinions...


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## TxllxT (Mar 2, 2011)

Steve Wright said:


> Yes, I have noticed that! Based on what, I wonder?
> My interest has been piqued by a) hearing that Davis does 3 and 6, perhaps my favourites, very well and b) the following Amazon review the Davis/Boston set:
> 
> _"If you want windswept forestscapes and lakes, then go for Berglund or Segerstam; high drama, Rozhdestvensky; mythic romantic narrative,Barbirolli, Ashkenazy or Ormandy; but if you want to reach deep into the dark heart of the Sibelian imagination, delved into and explored with utter intellectual rigour, uncompromising passionate engagement and a truly revelatory spiritual journey, then these have never been surpassed."_


No Karajan  ? I do not like the Boston recording: all sounds so plushy soft!


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## Becca (Feb 5, 2015)

From what I remember seeing over the years, the Boston and LSO Live cycles have been more highly rated than the RCA


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I have the Davis RCA set and given the alternatives available, would not recommend it.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

elgars ghost said:


> I would tentatively suggest that the Boston cycle on Philips is the more highly-regarded but there do appear to be as many Davis detractors as there are admirers amongst Sibelians. Just thought I'd say that before you get the 'none of them' kind of replies to your original question.


 The Davis BSO cycle was my first Sibelius cycle. I now finding myself not iiking it very much, although I think it far bests what I have heard of his other two cycles. The Boston cycle features a good 1, above average 2, a complete miss the point in 3, a 4 that starts well and loses intensity as it goes along, a solid 5, and uninvolving 6 and 7.
I don't think any Conductor truly scores on every Symphony and prefer individual interps of the 7. If I had to pick one cycle for overall consistency, it would be Vanska/Lahti, with Barbirolli/Halle second.
 I should add that i haven't heard some of the newer ones that have appeared in the last two years or so.


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## GKC (Jun 2, 2011)

I like the RCA best also. I haven't heard a better 7th. I don't care for the Boston 5 (5 is my favorite). I think he (Davis) sounds more human in the RCA and LSO cycles. But yes; opinions, opinions.....


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## Haydn man (Jan 25, 2014)

Well for what it is worth I have the LSO live set, granted I am no Sibelius expert but I am enjoying them. I have not heard the other Davis offerings so take my comments with that reservation


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Some of Davis' finest comes off his LSO years. I certainly endorse his LSO Sibelius.


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## Markbridge (Sep 28, 2014)

For me, the finale of the 2nd with Davis and the BSO is literally orgasmic! I have yet to find a conductor that moves me nearly as much as Davis does in this recording.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

Markbridge said:


> For me, the finale of the 2nd with Davis and the BSO is literally orgasmic! I have yet to find a conductor that moves me nearly as much as Davis does in this recording.


Gosh. *Literally *orgasmic? I've never yet achieved that level of, um, satisfaction with music.
A strong recommendation, thank you.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Steve Wright said:


> Gosh. *Literally *orgasmic? I've never yet achieved that level of, um, satisfaction with music.
> A strong recommendation, thank you.


Listen to either Karajan's Bruckner's Third or his final Bruckner's Eighth. Those pants won't know what hit 'em.

*coughs* I mean it is very much pleasure-causing.

OK, OK, you hate Karajan and his cultists? I got just the poison for you: Celibidache conducting Dvorak's Ninth.

What's that? You hate Celibidache cultists AND Dvorak's Ninth? I have another suggestion for you but I am afraid I don't whether you enjoy extreme sports. Well, "sports".


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## GKC (Jun 2, 2011)

Markbridge said:


> For me, the finale of the 2nd with Davis and the BSO is literally orgasmic! I have yet to find a conductor that moves me nearly as much as Davis does in this recording.


Maybe "Literally" is the new "Metaphorically" ;-)


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

GKC said:


> Maybe "Literally" is the new "Metaphorically" ;-)


That usage is literally everywhere now.


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## EDaddy (Nov 16, 2013)

For Sibelius, Davis is _the man_; and Boston _the_ orchestra. Can't go wrong. :tiphat:

Thank you! I'll be here all week.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> That usage is literally everywhere now.


You're using 'literally' wrong, M-Bear.


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## Mahlerian (Nov 27, 2012)

Lord Lance said:


> You're using 'literally' wrong, M-Bear.


Yes...that's the joke...


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

If I had a pound for every time I saw 'literally' misused, I could literally buy every Sibelius symphony cycle under the sun.


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## Lord Lance (Nov 4, 2013)

Mahlerian said:


> Yes...that's the joke...


Oh, now I feel embarrassed and stupid.

*slowly, shamefully walks away*


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## D Smith (Sep 13, 2014)

I just revisited Davis's BSO recordings of 1,2,4 and 5 and have to say they were very, very good. I still prefer HVK for most of these but must agree with Markbridge that the finale of the 2nd is the most majestic I've heard, literally or otherwise.


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## Triplets (Sep 4, 2014)

Markbridge said:


> For me, the finale of the 2nd with Davis and the BSO is literally orgasmic! I have yet to find a conductor that moves me nearly as much as Davis does in this recording.


Remind me not to sit in front of you at a concert


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm in the market for a Sibelius set and I'm thinking of the Davis/BSO Decca one. Is there any reason I shouldn't get it? It's certainly a bargain.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Ok, just to break this all down succinctly, yes, the Davis-Boston set is his best, and it's not very close either.

His RCA set with the LSO, for whatever reason, is simply awful. It's not just that the performances are generally slack, dull, and droopy, especially Kullervo (which he remade marvelously for the LSO on its own label) or the Second Symphony. They are also sloppy and accident-prone. Consider the first movement coda of the Fifth Symphony, where the timpanist gets lost-coming in late-and stays lost until the end. Or this worst-ever recording of the Lemminkäinen Legends, where the entire string section gets the rhythm wrong at the start of Lemminkäinen's Return, and the editing is simply incompetent.

The whole Boston set is very fine from beginning to end, however. Definitely a good starting place for a Sibelius collection.

There is another, however, that is even better, which I would recommend over the Davis-Boston set. It's the Paavo Berglund-Bournemouth Symphony set:

​
(You can click the image for the Amazon listing.)

At only $14 (from Amazon) (plus shipping) for a 4-CD box, it's a steal. And Paavo Berglund was a close, personal friend of Sibelius, whose conducting of his symphonies Sibelius expressed a strong approval of.

To be sure, you'll get an excellent set with the Davis-Boston, but you'll get an even better set with Berglund-Bournemouth and at a lower price, what's more.

Happy listening.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

Fwiw, I strongly dislike the Davis/BSO Sibelius. In particular, I think the 6th goes wrong right from the opening note. I'd recommend giving that symphony at any rate a hearing via Spotify or whatever before pulling the trigger.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Blancrocher said:


> Fwiw, I strongly dislike the Davis/BSO Sibelius. In particular, I think the 6th goes wrong right from the opening note.


Considering the large number of opinions both here and elsewhere that disagree, it would be far more helpful if you would specify _why_.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

All I know is the BSO plays so beautifully for Sir Colin.


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## Blancrocher (Jul 6, 2013)

dsphipps100 said:


> Considering the large number of opinions both here and elsewhere that disagree, it would be far more helpful if you would specify _why_.


That's probably true :lol: I suppose I've gotten used to Karajan's slower tempos in the extremely moving 6th symphony (one of my favorite symphonies, btw). Karajan finds the soul of the music--though as time goes on I could with the sonics of his DG recordings were better. Both conductors get both dismissive remarks and adulation, of course, so all one can do is listen online and make one's choice.











Whatever one's preference, the difference in approach is clear within seconds.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Blancrocher said:


> That's probably true :lol: I suppose I've gotten used to Karajan's slower tempos in the extremely moving 6th symphony (one of my favorite symphonies, btw). Karajan finds the soul of the music--though as time goes on I could with the sonics of his DG recordings were better. Both conductors get both dismissive remarks and adulation, of course, so all one can do is listen online and make one's choice.


That helps, thanks.


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## isorhythm (Jan 2, 2015)

After sampling on Spotify, I'm leaning toward the Berglund set now anyway. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

isorhythm said:


> After sampling on Spotify, I'm leaning toward the Berglund set now anyway. Thanks for the recommendation!


No problem. I spent years and years very happy with the Davis-Boston set, convinced that anything else would be superfluous, but then I happened across some reviews of the recently re-released Berglund-Bournemouth recordings, and noticed where Sibelius himself had expressed approval ("enjoyment", to be more exact) of Berglund's conducting of Sibelius' symphonies. Seeing that the price wasn't too much of a risk (only $14 + shipping), I went ahead & sprang for it. I'm very happy to say that, since receiving the Berglund album, Davis-Boston is no longer my "definitive" version, as excellent as I'll still happily say they are.

Berglund has a way of penetrating into the music's melodic and phrasing material that brings out a continuous flow of...something, which I unfortunately am at a loss for words to describe. It's the unique "sense" throughout all of Sibelius' music (especially his latter works) of cold hardness being somehow fused with a lush warmth at the same instant. It's something that I've never heard matched from any other composer in all of my 35+ years of listening to orchestral music. When done the way Berglund presents it, the music seems to have more of a "life" and a "breathing quality" to it, like being in Scandinavia, with all the scenic mountains, fjords, and trees, but at the same time, the harsh, wintry cold from being so near the Arctic. Berglund's interpretation has a marvelous way of bringing that sensation out in the music.

Davis-Boston does a great job of bringing out the "lush warmth" part of that sound, but they don't quite have the same equality of cold hardness that, upon hearing Berglund's Sibelius, one realizes is necessary to present it as a fully balanced whole.

I hope some others here will also consider the Berglund-Bournemouth album.









Happy listening.


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## Steve Wright (Mar 13, 2015)

dsphipps100 said:


> Berglund has a way of penetrating into the music's melodic and phrasing material that brings out a continuous flow of...something, which I unfortunately am at a loss for words to describe. It's the unique "sense" throughout all of Sibelius' music (especially his latter works) of cold hardness being somehow fused with a lush warmth at the same instant. It's something that I've never heard matched from any other composer in all of my 35+ years of listening to orchestral music. When done the way Berglund presents it, the music seems to have more of a "life" and a "breathing quality" to it, like being in Scandinavia, with all the scenic mountains, fjords, and trees, but at the same time, the harsh, wintry cold from being so near the Arctic. Berglund's interpretation has a marvelous way of bringing that sensation out in the music.
> 
> Davis-Boston does a great job of bringing out the "lush warmth" part of that sound, but they don't quite have the same equality of cold hardness that, upon hearing Berglund's Sibelius, one realizes is necessary to present it as a fully balanced whole.


Thrilled to see some love for the Berglund set. It was my introduction to Sibelius a year ago, and although I have since acquired other cycles and part-cycles - Rattle, Karajan/Kamu, Petri Sakari - Berglund continues to delight. 
I might like to hear other versions from time to time - Kamu's Third is splendid, Rattle's Fourth is nicely dark and opulent, Karajan is perhaps unmatched in the Fifth for me, and Sakari does a very fine and idiomatic Sixth - but I can't think of a single weak link in the Berglund set. Which is, actually, too faint praise - they are all very fine.


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## dsphipps100 (Jan 10, 2016)

Steve Wright said:


> Thrilled to see some love for the Berglund set. It was my introduction to Sibelius a year ago, and although I have since acquired other cycles and part-cycles - Rattle, Karajan/Kamu, Petri Sakari - Berglund continues to delight.
> I might like to hear other versions from time to time - Kamu's Third is splendid, Rattle's Fourth is nicely dark and opulent, Karajan is perhaps unmatched in the Fifth for me, and Sakari does a very fine and idiomatic Sixth - but I can't think of a single weak link in the Berglund set. Which is, actually, too faint praise - they are all very fine.


In that case, since you apparently already have the Berglund set and are, I assume, simply hunting a listening "alternative" in Colin Davis, then his Boston set is definitely the one you want.


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## hpowders (Dec 23, 2013)

My favorite Sir Colin Davis/BSO performances are of symphonies 3 and 6.


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