# Question on Czerny 30 (op.849)



## danae

First of all, shouldn't there be a category "Educational" in this forum? This suggestion ios directed to the administrators of course.

Secondly, I have a problem with etude no.17 from Czerny's op.849. The edition I have (a stupid greek one) shows the initial trill in the form of 2 small notes (d-e) that immediately preceed the d of the downbeat, which of course is a regular-size note. 
But playing it it doesn't really sound right like this. It' sounds a lot more logical if I turn the first 3 notes (d-e-d) into a triplet of 16ths. 

I wanna give this etude to a student of mine next week, so if anyone has an opinion (or a more reliable edition) please respond.


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## danae

Please? Anyone. I know some of you have played the etude and some of you teach it. So, please answer. I can't reach any of my pianist friends or my teacher in order to ask them. I should have asked them before I decided to give this etude to my student.


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## Rasa

I don't have this etude. Maybe you can make a small scan?


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## danae

Sorry, no scanner. Just the very basics: a laptop, a printer, headphones and telephone line!


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## Rasa

draw it

http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&ld=1&rid=5516&cid=7182


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## danae

Rasa said:


> draw it
> 
> http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&ld=1&rid=5516&cid=7182


What??? There is not point. You have to be aware of the piece so that you can answer my question. It's not a theory question. I know how mordants sound and I know how what I'm suggesting sounds. It's simply a matter of whether you agree with me or not, and based on what kind of evidence. I mean, if you had a more reliable edition than the one I have, I could really use your help.

And by the way, it's gonna take me at least 1 hour to draw what I want!


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## danae

My question on this etude still stands. I asked my teacher and she doesn't agree with me. But she didn't show me her edition, we just looked at mine (which is crap by the way) and she said that it's fairly clear what should be played. But I still have my reservations. Opinions anyone? And don't ask me to scan or draw it.


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## Kuntster

Just from thinking about it in my head. . . Czerny was a classical composer so it would probably be standard that the trill stay this way stylistically. The trill could start on the upper note and I think what your edition is trying to point out is that it should end with a small turn back to the D on the downbeat. 

Czerny isn't like Bach or any other Baroque/pre-Baroque composer where you can basically do the ornamentation however you want. Try to fit it into the style. 

Try a tuplet of 5 starting on the upper note. Then, your downbeat will end on D.


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## danae

Kuntster said:


> Just from thinking about it in my head. . . Czerny was a classical composer so it would probably be standard that the trill stay this way stylistically. The trill could start on the upper note and I think what your edition is trying to point out is that it should end with a small turn back to the D on the downbeat.
> 
> Czerny isn't like Bach or any other Baroque/pre-Baroque composer where you can basically do the ornamentation however you want. Try to fit it into the style.
> 
> Try a tuplet of 5 starting on the upper note. Then, your downbeat will end on D.


Thanks very much for the input, although it took me a while to see the reply. What you're suggesting cannot be done, because obviously you don't have the score and you don't know what I'm referring to. 
I was seeking advice from someone who either knows this etude very well, or has a reliable edition. I know the difference between Bach and Czerny and I know the differences in ornamentation (notated or not) in both styles. BUT I don't know how this etude is presented in other editions, and namely the critical editions. 
Now if there 's a critical edition that has no difference than mine, then I'll just back off and play it *as it is notated*.


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