# Help needed - Build a concert program!



## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

We (a group of music students) are organizing a symphonic concert in early june. Our conductor wants to perform Stravinsky's _Petrushka_, the 1947 version. Now, that's fine with me, love the piece. But we are having trouble trying to decide the complete program. So, I'm asking you to help us! Because of the funding, the maximum size of the orchestra is around 70 plus musicians. So no _Rite of Spring_ or _Alpensinfonie_. There must be some kind of link between the pieces (marionettes, Russia, Eastern Europe, early 20th century music etc). Me, I would love to play the _Symphonic Variations_ by Lutoslawski and Bartok's Divertimento. There may be a violin soloist in the concert.

What kind of symphonic program would you construct around _Petrushka_?


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

Going with the whole Russian holiday theme, one piece might be Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture.

But it's awesome that you're playing Petrouchka. It's a piece I've always wanted to play.


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

As a trombonist too, I must say that's a good option.


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

KosenRufu said:


> As a trombonist too, I must say that's a good option.


You're a trombonist? Awesome! We need more of us here.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

The Rimsky-Korsakov link with Stravinsky (Stravinsky studied with Rimsky) is a strong one and Russian _Easter Festival_ is a great opener. Also, the 'Easter' theme of the overture would link-in with the _Shrovetide Fair_ in Petrushka. Another possibility would be one of the suites from a Rimsky-Korsakov opera (eg _Coq D'or_,_ Tale of Tsar Saltan_ (with perhaps the bumblebee thrown-in for good measure), both of which have the same great storytelling element.

Another idea is to include some music by Anatol Lyadov (1855-1914). Lyadov wrote a small amount of beautifully-written, evocative and colourful music. He was very lazy, however, and his failure to complete Diaghlev's original commission for his new Firebird ballet (Petrushka's predecessor) in 1909 led Diaghilev to try-out this promising young composer Igor Stravinsky. The rest is history. Some of the most notable works of Lyadov's include _The Enchanted Lake_, _From the Apocalypse_, _Baba Yaga_ and _Kikimora_. One could concoct a suite of these pieces (none of them lasts more than ten minutes).

Alternatively, you could construct a programme entirely on pieces used for the _Ballet russes_ productions between 1909 and 1929. Pieces you could easily use would include:

Debussy - _Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune_ (obviously not an original commission)
Falla - _The Three-Cornered Hat_
Milhaud - _Le train bleu_
Poulenc - _Les biches_
Respighi - _La boutique fantasque_
Rimsky-Korsakov - _Le coq d'or_ (the second time that piece has come up!)

If you have a violin soloist, I would suggest one of the two Prokofiev violin concertos - both would work very well in the context.

There! I hope some of that is useful.


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## Art Rock (Nov 28, 2009)

The Lyapunov violin concerto is also worth considering.
Amazon link.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2011)

Why 1947? I'd much rather hear the 1911 version, myself.


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

The 1947 version is written for a smaller orchestra... we can not afford hiring 8 percussionists, for example. The Prokofiev concertos, especially the latter would work well in the context. Also that Falla piece! Love it. Great suggestions, people! Keep 'em coming!


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

some guy said:


> Why 1947? I'd much rather hear the 1911 version, myself.


Because the 1911 version calls for a much larger orchestra and it is, therefore, beyond reach of some orchestras (more woodwind, brass, percussion and harps). Also, some of the part-writing is easier to read and execute in the 1947 version.

I also prefer the 1911 version (it just SOUNDS better), but the 1947 one is more 'practical' for many.


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

Looks like we're going to play the second Prokofiev violin concerto. That and Petrushka... but we still need a good opener for the concert. I was thinking some piece by Milhaud would be fun, for the polytonality... or maybe we should take a different route? Sibelius' 4th symphony (which was composed in 1911)?


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## Aksel (Dec 3, 2010)

How long should the piece be? Because Ives' Holiday Symphony could also be an alternative, or a movement or two from it. Again, the theme being music written in the early 1900's and holidays, obviously.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

The Prokofiev is about 24 minutes long and so you need about 15-20 minutes for an opener. Sibelius 4 is really NOT a concert opener - it is too long and too demanding on the listener. Don't make the mistake of trying to cram-in all your 'favourite' pieces to a concert programme; you will usually end up with an unsatisfying mish-mash.

The Prokofiev and Stravinsky will work well together. I already suggested Milhaud's _Le train bleu_ (the _Ballets russes_ connection), but it's hardly his best-known work. How about _Le boeuf sur le toit _(15'), _La création du monde_ (19' - very jazz influenced) or the _Suite française_ (15') or _Suite provençale_ (16')?

The suite from Rimsky-Korsakov's _The Tale of Tsar Saltan_ is around 18 minutes and you could add the little _Flight of the Bumblebee_ interlude that Rimsky inexplicably omitted from the suite.


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

Delicious Manager said:


> The Prokofiev is about 24 minutes long and so you need about 15-20 minutes for an opener. Sibelius 4 is really NOT a concert opener - it is too long and too demanding on the listener. Don't make the mistake of trying to cram-in all your 'favourite' pieces to a concert programme; you will usually end up with an unsatisfying mish-mash.


Just kicking ideas around... I was thinking about reversing the order, first _Petrushka_, then the _violin concerto_ and then Sibelius. But yeah, that wouldn't work. Plus we should have a cello concerto, not violin, if we were gonna play the 4th symphony. _La Creation Du Monde_ is great, but we are most likely going to play that next autumn. Don't know about the other Milhaud's pieces... gotta look them up. Still, something is drawing me to Lutoslawski's Symphonic Variations.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

I saw Petroushka last year (1947 version). I don't think all these pieces are related, but below is the concert program, it seemed to be a nice contrast and I enjoyed it immensely. 
If you could possibly find a link between some older world sounds and new, it might be a good idea. 



Respighi: 
Ancient Airs and Dances, Suite #2 (20 min)

Vivaldi: 
Guitar Concerto in D Major RV 43 (11 min)

Sierra: 
Folias (another guitar piece with orchestra, modern with baroque influence, I LOVED it - Manuel Barrueco on guitar) (15 min)

Intermission

Stravinsky:
Petroushka (31 min)


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

The Lutosławski is a little short (under 10 minutes).

If you go for a solo cello piece, perhaps the Myaskovsky Cello Concerto (one of the best, yet underrated cello concertos) might be a good choice?


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

There's a change in the plan; we will perform Bartok's third piano concerto instead of Prokofiev's violin concerto. What should we open the concert with? I was thinking about rejecting the whole "russian music" idea, and going with Szymanowski's _Concert Overture_. What do ya think?


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

The Szymanowski _Concert Overture_ is little more then a thinly-veiled re-writing of Strauss's _Don Juan_ and is not typical Szymanowski at all.

What about an all-Hungarian first half with Kodály's suite from _Háry János_ or the _Dances of Galánta_ or the Dohnányi _Symphonic Minutes_ to start?


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## KosenRufu (Mar 20, 2011)

That Kodaly-piece is excellent, but it requires a simbalom, and I think the nearest simbalom is in hungary. But I have to check out that last suggestion! The opener has to be something special, because it opens a whole mini-festival. First day culminates with Petrushka, second day has contemporary music by Salonen and Reich, third day has chambermusic by Ives, Poulenc, Copland etc. That's why I was thinking about playing something older, to make the evolution of music more visible.


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## Delicious Manager (Jul 16, 2008)

I take your point about the cimbalom in _Háry János_. The _Dances of Galánta_ uses a very straightforward orchestra and would get the concert off to a rousing start. The Dohnányi is a lovely work, but I'm not sure you would find it 'special' enough.

This is going to seem so 'obvious' and crass, but had you thought of placing Shostakovich's _Festival Overture_ at the top of the programme (maybe followed by your 'proper' first piece)? It's short enough (5 minutes) not to 'get in the way' too much.

Alternatively, another piece which would be suitably rousing AND a little earlier in time (and quite substantial at around 15') would be Elgar's overture *Cockaigne*. I'm not sure which country you're from, but this is probably one of the pieces by Elgar which is known internationally. What do you think?

Another idea: Enescu's _Romanian Rhapsody_ No 1 - another ideal concert opener. Or Ravel's _Rapsodie espagnole_?


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