# Conspiracy Theory #572b



## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Brahms and Wagner were the _same person.















_Discuss.


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

The specific numerical designation of this thread made me think it was an Aramis comeback thread, or another Dodecaplex thing. But the way the topic was worded, this is the scholarly work of Couchie.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

clavichorder said:


> The specific numerical designation of this thread made me think it was an Aramis comeback thread, or another Dodecaplex thing. But the way the topic was worded, this is the scholarly work of Couchie.


This is _ incidental!_


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Some notes:

- Both were born in 1813.
- Brahms never wrote any operas. Wagner never wrote anything that _wasn't _opera.
- Who has a beard like Brahms' that isn't trying to hide something?


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

*Conspiracy Theory #527b: I.*



clavichorder said:


> The specific numerical designation of this thread made me think it was an Aramis comeback thread, or another Dodecaplex thing. But the way the topic was worded, this is the scholarly work of Couchie.
> 
> 
> Couchie said:
> ...


The number 527 signifies the names Brahms and Wagner.

B + R + A + H + M + S = 2 + 17 + 1 + 8 + 13 + 18 = *5*9

W + A + G + N + E + R = 22 + 1 + 7 + 14 + 5 + 17 = 66 (there are *2* sixes)

66 - 59 = *7*

Q. E. D.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Brahms never wrote any operas. Wagner never wrote anything that _wasn't _opera.


I suppose the case I'm making here is a sort of Jekyll and Hyde situation where Wagner was Brahms' evil opera-writing persona. Parallels could also be drawn between Clark Kent and _Superman_.


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Brahms was born in 1833. Besides, who Brahms really wanted to be was Johann Strauss (he was jealous of Strauss' _Blue Danube_)


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

Couchie said:


> Some notes:
> 
> - Both were born in 1813.
> - Brahms never wrote any operas. Wagner never wrote anything that _wasn't _opera.
> - Who has a beard like Brahms' that isn't trying to hide something?


You have produced conclusive evidence! Well, of higher quality than the plutocrat spin-doctor standard anyway. Not sufficiently spun, though; more. _Couchie_, more.


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

pollux said:


> Brahms was born in 1833.


What evidence do you have? None.


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Couchie said:


> What evidence do you have? None.


OK, Brahms was born in 1685 and what was hiding behind his beard was a manuscript copy of _Die Kunst der Fuge_. Now it's all revealed!


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

pollux said:


> OK, Brahms was born in 1685 and what was hiding behind his beard was a manuscript copy of _Die Kunst der Fuge_. Now it's all revealed!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ridicule


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

What I do have is sex appeal!


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

You should be locked up with no chance to appeal. This thread is a complete disgrace.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Johannes 'Dick' Wagner-Brahms


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

*A poem about Wagner and Brahms*

_If Wagner and Brahms were different people
How come nobody ever saw them together at the same place?_

[Text by Sid James / Music by Richard Johannes Wagner-Brahms]...


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Couchie said:


> What evidence do you have? None.


I woke up this morning to find a document suspiciously placed on my desk. Upon inspection, I discovered that it was the official birth certificate of Johannes Brahms, dated 1833 (not 1813), which I had verified by experts in certificate verification.

Later in the day, I had my weekly session in the tanning salon where, for a bit of light reading, I took the birth certificate. To my astonishment, I noticed on the back of the certificate a peculiar string of numbers resembling the Fibonacci sequence, evident only in ultra-violet light. From my familiarity with Brahms's autograph manuscripts, I also determined that it was written in his own hand. Clearly, he was sending a message.

After decoding the significance of the sequence of numbers - the method and result being confidential - I was directed by Brahms to his family home in Hamburg. Upon my arrival, I was not sure what to look for, so I searched aimlessly through the house, my Sherpa companion being somewhat suspicious of my endeavour and our distance from Nepal.

At one moment, I stumbled across the wooden slats of the kitchen floor, and, not being the kind of man who ever loses control of his balance, I immediately determined that there was something awry. Indeed, as I further inspected the floor-boards, I perceived that one was deliberately loose, and excitedly ripped it from under me, knowing that it concealed a secret compartment.

There, I found an old and dusty book, which I lifted slowly and apprehensively, cautiously too. Not to mention excitedly and fearfully, but intrigued and curious. I felt an amount of timidity and tenderness for what I thought I might discover, and a flash of rage mixed with latent sexual pleasure crossed my mind. Then, with my highly proficient skills in deciphering the mysterious language of _Germaniensis_, I discovered that I had picked up the original diary of Anne Frank.

I opened the diary in horror to find a sick little girl's shrine to Nazism and anti-semitism. Frank was a fraud, but I had a matter of greater import to attend to. I flicked through the pages of swastikas, fascist emblems, sketches of Hitler with pornographic undertones, and curiously came to a finely wrought depiction of Richard Wagner. Underneath his image was yet another sequence of numbers to decode.

Decoding the numbers revealed a sequence within a sequence that I then, in turn, had to decode, leading me again to decode yet another sequence of numbers within that sequence, this third sequence leading me to a set of pictograms and pagan symbols that I decoded by way of visiting a tattoo parlour (my Sherpa had abandoned me by this point, thinking me insane, but my invisible companion, Mary Shelley, kept me company with her hilarious and ridiculous dreams based on a childish understanding of Galvanism).

Unsurprisingly, I was eventually directed to the Bayreuth Festspielhaus, knowing that the greatest secret of our age was buried somewhere within. During a performance of _The Ring_ which I attended under false pretences, I crept out of the main concert hall while everyone was sleeping and proceeded to rip the place apart. I demolished walls with my hammer searching for more clues. I poured acid onto delicate surfaces, hoping the effervescence would be directed by supernatural hands and point me more directly to my goal. With all this vandalism, I was soon detained by the ticket office, but, therein, I saw my prize and grabbed it subtly before they threw me out into the street.

In my hand, I held a document more important than any other that has ever existed. Unfolding it, I saw that it was the birth certificate of Johannes Brahms, which I had earlier misplaced when collecting my tickets, and, seeing it at an unusual angle, noted a portion of text that I had not bothered to read in my prior excitement. There, staring me blankly in the face, were the words: *Father: Richard Wagner, age 20*. Johannes Brahms was Wagner's son.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Brahms and Wagner were the _same person.
> 
> View attachment 2972
> View attachment 2973
> ...


Hang on...... I think I can work this out......

MY CALCULATIONS:










No I cannot work it out.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Polednice, Im impressed you managed to do all of those things in such a short stretch of time, but I must correct you on one thing: Anne Frank's diary was written in *Dutch*.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

emiellucifuge said:


> Polednice, Im impressed you managed to do all of those things in such a short stretch of time, but I must correct you on one thing: Anne Frank's diary was written in *Dutch*.


@Polednice:  :lol:


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## jurianbai (Nov 23, 2008)

Couchie said:


> Brahms and Wagner were the _same person.
> 
> View attachment 2972
> View attachment 2973
> ...


My admiration to Clara Schumann now depthened.


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## Eviticus (Dec 8, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Brahms and Wagner were the _same person.
> 
> View attachment 2972
> View attachment 2973
> ...


I still think there is a stronger case to say Brahms and Father Christmas were the same person. I mean they were never seen in the same place were they? I think this idea drove Schumann MENTAL!


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

emiellucifuge said:


> Polednice, Im impressed you managed to do all of those things in such a short stretch of time, but I must correct you on one thing: Anne Frank's diary was written in *Dutch*.


Yes, but otherwise everything else I said was factually correct.


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## emiellucifuge (May 26, 2009)

Polednice said:


> Yes, but otherwise everything else I said was factually correct.


Sure of course, theres no debating that. Im just saying...


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I woke up this morning ... Johannes Brahms was Wagner's son.


Classic. There needs to be a thread where we keep a record of the greatest posts in the history of talkclassical, and this needs to be in it.


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

science said:


> Classic. There needs to be a thread where we keep a record of the greatest posts in the history of talkclassical, and this needs to be in it.


Yep, classic in the manner of pulp fiction (which _Poley_ may not have heard of. The infamous weak ending, the product of desperation and the word-count limit.

[Well done, _Poley_, except for the dubious failure-to-read-the-document device. I was completely taken in.]


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## superhorn (Mar 23, 2010)

In fact, Wagner wrote more non-operatic music than most people realize, but these works are very little-known except for the familiar Siegfried Idyll, written to celelbrate the birth of his son Siegfried in 1869.
Most of these non-operatic works date from Wagner's early years, and most have been recorded .
Among them are a symphony in C dating from his 19th year and fragments of a second , the Faust overture ,
a cantata called "The Love Feast of the Apostles, " assorted songs and piano pieces , the "Columbus" overture, marking the voyage of Columbus to the new world, etc
Wagner was also believe it or not, commissioned from America to write a Centennial march for the 1876 
celebration of Indepepndence day , which turned out to be a piece of hackwork, and there is a Homage march dedicated to his extremely generous but wacko patron king Ludwig of Bavaria, and the Wesendonck lieder ,originally for female voiuce and piano, but later orchestrated by others, and several other obscure works.
All are well-worth hearing . There is an EMI recording of the Centennial March , the homage march and the overtures to Wagner's first two operas Die Feen (the fairies) and Das Liebesverbot (the ban on love) with Marek Janowski and the LSO , but this is probably very hard ot find ; I had it on cassette, but can't find it now.
Jeffrey Tate and the Bavarian radio symphony, also on EMI have recorded the Columbus overture and other early Wagner .


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## Sofronitsky (Jun 12, 2011)

Polednice said:


> ...During a performance of _The Ring_ which I attended under false pretences, I crept out of the main concert hall* while everyone was sleeping* and proceeded to rip the place apart....


10/10 

I spit my drink out laughing at that :lol:


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

Sofronitsky said:


> 10/10
> 
> I spit my drink out laughing at that :lol:


I was hoping people would notice my insult.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Doesn't Polednice like Wagner?


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

Polednice said:


> I woke up this morning to find a document suspiciously placed on my desk. Upon inspection, I discovered that it was the official birth certificate of Johannes Brahms, dated 1833 (not 1813), which I had verified by experts in certificate verification.
> 
> Later in the day, I had my weekly session in the tanning salon where, for a bit of light reading, I took the birth certificate. To my astonishment, I noticed on the back of the certificate a peculiar string of numbers resembling the Fibonacci sequence, evident only in ultra-violet light. From my familiarity with Brahms's autograph manuscripts, I also determined that it was written in his own hand. Clearly, he was sending a message.
> 
> ...


I. Love. This. Post.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> I. Love. This. Post.


But Wagner is _so_ much *better *than Brahms.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

unless this is a manifestation of schizophrenic split personality, the guy on the left was one of the major contrapuntalist, classicist formalists of all time, the guy on the right one of the most homophonic of composers, and not at all a formalist. They're both Germans, maybe share a genome or two... or three... or four.

And conspiracy, naw, that's just your everyday generally average paranoia.


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## Fsharpmajor (Dec 14, 2008)

PetrB said:


> unless this is a manifestation of schizophrenic split personality, the guy on the left was one of the major contrapuntalist, classicist formalists of all time, the guy on the right one of the most homophonic of composers, and not at all a formalist. They're both Germans, maybe share a genome or two... or three... or four.
> 
> And conspiracy, naw, that's just your everyday generally average paranoia.


Also, Brahms and Wagner actually are known to have met, and were seen in each other's presence.

Of course Couchie's thread isn't really serious, but I've never understood how the people who think 9/11 was a "controlled demolition" can explain the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses actually SAW the two airplanes hit the World Trade Center.


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## PetrB (Feb 28, 2012)

Fsharpmajor said:


> Also, Brahms and Wagner actually are known to have met, and were seen in each other's presence.
> 
> Of course Couchie's thread isn't really serious, but I've never understood how the people who think 9/11 was a "controlled demolition" can explain the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses actually SAW the two airplanes hit the World Trade Center.


Maybe Couchie might think it a conspiracy when he discovers your underage relative is D# minor, and then mistake the two of you for the same person?


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> But Wagner is _so_ much *better *than Brahms.


*False.*


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## Couchie (Dec 9, 2010)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> But Wagner is _so_ much *better *than Brahms.


Why do you always write Wagner? Not saying I don't like it.


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## Dodecaplex (Oct 14, 2011)

*Conspiracy Theory #573*

Couchie revived this thread on March 2[SUP]nd[/SUP].

March 2[SUP]nd [/SUP]is the 62[SUP]nd[/SUP] day of a leap year (2012 is a leap year).

Brahms wrote his Op. 62 in 1874, the same year Wagner completed Der Ring.

This shows, I believe, that Couchie wants to show us that it's not possible for Wagner and Brahms to have been the same person, which leads me to conclude that he wants to test us and see whether we can prove that he was lying or not.

Symbolically:

 _L[SUB]C[/SUB] ⇔∀x (Bx → ¬◊Wx)

_Q.E.D.


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## ComposerOfAvantGarde (Dec 2, 2011)

Couchie said:


> Why do you always write Wagner? Not saying I don't like it.


Two reasons:

1. Wagner was the height of German romanticism so his name must be written bigger than the other German romantic composers

2. That's how it is written in Stephen Fry's Incomplete and Utter History of Classical Music


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## Polednice (Sep 13, 2009)

ComposerOfAvantGarde said:


> That's how it is written in Stephen Fry's Incomplete and Utter History of Classical Music


That book is a scam. It's not by Fry, they just used his name.


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