# An Interesting Proposal For Other Composers Here!



## Xenakiboy

I had the idea earlier today of making this thread, where one poster composes a short theme, then other posers compose a variation. After that, they are all assembled together into a theme+variations? 
What do you think?

It'd be interesting to see, with our own different influences and background, how we interpret themes/motifs and development differently :tiphat:


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## Alexanbar

Usialy, every composer has a lot of themes without an interpretation ...

And other thing. All of us use different note editors (and different file formats)


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## Samuel Kristopher

Interesting idea, but the file format would be a tricky thing to work around I guess. I'd give it a shot if I can use Sibelius


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## Mahlerian

I think all major programs can export to and import from MIDI and MusicXML.


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## Xenakiboy

Mahlerian said:


> I think all major programs can export to and import from MIDI and MusicXML.


And that's all we will need to, plus pdf. Part of the inspiration is subliminally this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_guirlande_de_Campra which I've never heard but I found it a long time ago.

If we can get people interested (at least 5 others) then this will be really awesome! :tiphat:


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## Samuel Kristopher

Well count me in then


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Well count me in then


Awesome, that's one so far. Who else?


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## Mahlerian

Xenakiboy said:


> Awesome, that's one so far. Who else?


Sure, I'll give it a try.


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## Crudblud

I'd be interested in joining this project.


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## Xenakiboy

Ok, Three so far! 

Once we have we have two more people, we should be good to go. 
Should I compose the theme? Or is someone else eager? 

Also, just re-affirming; whatever the theme's style is, you have free reign in your own voice. Probably with a limit of a three minute variation at the most.


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## Xenakiboy

Just so we're all on the same page, a finished theme + variations could look like this:

1. theme 
2. Xenakiboy variation 1
3. Kristopher variation 2
4. Mahlerian variation 3
5. Crudblud variation 4
6. Variation 5
7. Variation 6
8. Finale (whoevers up to it!  

To keep it from getting messy, should we make it solo piano? Or add another solo instrument? Violin maybe?


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## Alexanbar

Xenakiboy said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_guirlande_de_Campra


It is surprisingly that the authors came to an agreement among themselves.
Several times I tried to modify other composer's music, but authors never has remained agree with my changes.


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## KenOC

Who will be the Diabelli?


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## Samuel Kristopher

Xenakiboy said:


> To keep it from getting messy, should we make it solo piano? Or add another solo instrument? Violin maybe?


Maybe just piano? Although I wouldn't mind an orchestral accompaniment, it will detract from the focus on having a variation too much, I think.

In any case, once we're finished we can discuss further what we'll do with the end result.

Oh, I should mention that in one week I'll be going away for two weeks without access to my working computer, so I'll have to do mine either before or after


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## Xenakiboy

KenOC said:


> Who will be the Diabelli?


If nobody else is eager to provide the theme, I will!! :lol:


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Maybe just piano? Although I wouldn't mind an orchestral accompaniment, it will detract from the focus on having a variation too much, I think.
> 
> In any case, once we're finished we can discuss further what we'll do with the end result.
> 
> Oh, I should mention that in one week I'll be going away for two weeks without access to my working computer, so I'll have to do mine either before or after


Are you suggesting someone orchestrate it too! I'm getting excited now!

For the last part, It depends on if we get enough people interested in participating...

Also, I liked your Nocturne and one of your arrangements, so you'll be a great addition.


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## SeptimalTritone

Xenakiboy said:


> Ok, Three so far!
> 
> Once we have we have two more people, we should be good to go.
> Should I compose the theme? Or is someone else eager?
> 
> Also, just re-affirming; whatever the theme's style is, you have free reign in your own voice. Probably with a limit of a three minute variation at the most.


I'll write a variation. I'm up for it!

Since you came up with this awesome idea, you really should do the honors of making the theme.

I would recommend, as Samuel said, to have everyone write solo piano.

I would also request... that the initial theme be no longer than one minute and a half. Most baroque/classical/romantic, or even 20th century variations for just piano have initial themes about one minute - to - one minute and a half. The variations can be longer, and your suggestion of no more than three minutes is reasonable.


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## Samuel Kristopher

I agree, it's all on you Xenaki  Thanks for your compliment, I appreciate it!


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## TwoPhotons

Why not. Count me in!


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## Xenakiboy

1. Xenakiboy theme? 
2. Xenakiboy variation 1
3. Kristopher variation 2
4. Mahlerian variation 3
5. Crudblud variation 4
6. SeptimalTritone variation 5
7. TwoPhotos Variation 6
8. Finale for whoever's up to it!

How does this sound?
It would be good though if we all attempt different tempos/dynamics, eg. we're not all writing allegro variations? :lol:

Apart from that, I'll start! :tiphat:


un-edited edit: I might place my variation as a later movement, that way my contributions are separated. Where it will be placed will be determined by what tempos/dynamics everyone else chooses!


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## Samuel Kristopher

Look forward to it!



> It would be good though if we all attempt different tempos/dynamics, eg. we're not all writing allegro variations?


Ooh, let me have the Scherzo diabolico! I'll bring Joker-level madness to the piece xD

Edit: For the finale, how about we wait for all the variations to be compiled so we can hear it all together (minus the finale) - then we'll all write finales as we see fit and have a poll-competition to choose the canon finale. In any case, there's nothing wrong with having several alternate finales - their names slip my mind at the moment but I read about a modern sonata the other day that has several possible finales and it's up to the listener whether they prefer a sad, happy, or mysterious conclusion to the piece.


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Look forward to it!
> 
> Ooh, let me have the Scherzo diabolico! I'll bring Joker-level madness to the piece xD
> 
> Edit: For the finale, how about we wait for all the variations to be compiled so we can hear it all together (minus the finale) - then we'll all write finales as we see fit and have a poll-competition to choose the canon finale. In any case, there's nothing wrong with having several alternate finales - their names slip my mind at the moment but I read about a modern sonata the other day that has several possible finales and it's up to the listener whether they prefer a sad, happy, or mysterious conclusion to the piece.


Ok, you can have that.

The finale idea isn't that bad actually, we'll definitely do that! This is getting really awesome now! 

I'll get composing the theme over today and tomorrow, then I'll get back.
Where should I share it with the participants? should I PM you guys it? :tiphat:


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## Samuel Kristopher

PM is fine, should we settle on an XML standard if possible? MIDI is theoretically possible but it's sometimes difficult to work with. I find Sibelius usually has a sudden onset of dementia when I load MIDIs and it creates notation that looks like a drunk toddler sprayed it with a sixty-fourth-note machine-gun.


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> PM is fine, should we settle on an XML standard if possible? MIDI is theoretically possible but it's sometimes difficult to work with. I find Sibelius usually has a sudden onset of dementia when I load MIDIs and it creates notation that looks like a drunk toddler sprayed it with a sixty-fourth-note machine-gun.


I agree, though I'm using Musescore (which is a stunning program for the price!  )

Though, once it's all composed the final product will need to be exported in the same editor in high, consistent quality! Other than that, _everyone involved stay in touch here!_


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## Xenakiboy

SeptimalTritone said:


> I'll write a variation. I'm up for it!
> 
> Since you came up with this awesome idea, you really should do the honors of making the theme.
> 
> I would recommend, as Samuel said, to have everyone write solo piano.
> 
> I would also request... that the initial theme be no longer than one minute and a half. Most baroque/classical/romantic, or even 20th century variations for just piano have initial themes about one minute - to - one minute and a half. The variations can be longer, and your suggestion of no more than three minutes is reasonable.


I'll be writing the theme! 

Yes, the theme will be 1:00 - 1:30, depending on how the theme ends up! :tiphat:

P.s. guys, I've already started a theme idea!


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## Samuel Kristopher

If it's solo piano, I don't mind giving the final polishing touches a shot. I spend a fair amount of time trying to squeeze the best sounds out of Sibelius VSTs and as far as piano sounds go, they're not bad. I also enjoy adding the rubato and personal expressive touches on a note-by-note basis 

If you want to do that yourself though, that's great though  obviously my own expressive touches wouldn't be the same as what others would feel, I hope that makes sense


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> If it's solo piano, I don't mind giving the final polishing touches a shot. I spend a fair amount of time trying to squeeze the best sounds out of Sibelius VSTs and as far as piano sounds go, they're not bad. I also enjoy adding the rubato and personal expressive touches on a note-by-note basis
> 
> If you want to do that yourself though, that's great though  obviously my own expressive touches wouldn't be the same as what others would feel, I hope that makes sense


What I mean though is that the end result will go through one export, so that the midi quality is consistent 

I think that articulations/ornaments can be added by the composer, not the exporter. It's a collaboration but we have free reign for our own variations, but after it's finish and someone wants to orchestrate it..they can add some creative liberties (without changing the actual compositions)


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## Xenakiboy

I'm hoping that we will all approach this theme all very different. It stylistically like an amalgamation of Debussy, Stravinsky and Shostakovich a bit. It's moderately soft and simple, so that it can be transformed (I know I'll do some interesting things with it!  )

But if this theme + variations ends up in a polystylistic world (per movement), it will be a very fun and awesome experience! Thanks guys so far! :tiphat:


I won't be a approaching it in my Xenakian/Vareseian style (for my variation), like you would expect but it is sure for some heavy and complex treatment! :devil:


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## Samuel Kristopher

I think you can expect some Alkan influence from me  I've already been going through his Steibelt variations as some preparatory listening and, my personal favourite work of his, Le Festin d'Aesop.


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> I think you can expect some Alkan influence from me  I've already been going through his Steibelt variations as some preparatory listening and, my personal favourite work of his, Le Festin d'Aesop.


Can't honestly say I've heard much of his work but I enjoyed hearing the Symphony for solo piano quite a while ago!


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## Samuel Kristopher

Well, I know literally nothing of Xenakis, so you're ahead of me


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Well, I know literally nothing of Xenakis, so you're ahead of me


I'm a living encyclopedia with that man's music, why else do I have my username? This is especially a melodic/harmonic experiment per say, no Xenak Or Vares needed here!


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## Samuel Kristopher

> I'm a living encyclopedia with that man's music, why else do I have my username?


I figured as much 

I'm glad you've introduced me to his name, because he's now on my list of composers to get to know. Sadly I've come to the classical music game rather late and I'm still working my way through the popular composers (doing Saint-Saens right at the moment, and I'm thinking either Bizet or Medtner next) but he's definitely there 

I look forward to being an encyclopedia of someone's music. Probably the composer I know the most about so far is Shostakovich, but I'm too much in love with Prokofiev to say that I'm 100% a Shostakovich man xD


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> I figured as much
> 
> I'm glad you've introduced me to his name, because he's now on my list of composers to get to know. Sadly I've come to the classical music game rather late and I'm still working my way through the popular composers (doing Saint-Saens right at the moment, and I'm thinking either Bizet or Medtner next) but he's definitely there
> 
> I look forward to being an encyclopedia of someone's music. Probably the composer I know the most about so far is Shostakovich, but I'm too much in love with Prokofiev to say that I'm 100% a Shostakovich man xD


Shosty is fantastic, though not all of his music jumps out at me but he deserves his throne as one of the 20th Century masters! 
Prokofiev is a very inventive and playful composer, I haven't heard a large portion of his music but anyone who can compose that symphony no 2 and Peter & The Wolf alone deserves a salute!


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## Xenakiboy

Still working on it here! I may have it done by tomorrow! (If I'm able to keep focused  ) :tiphat:


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## Xenakiboy

I think it's almost there but I'm still not 100%, it's in B major, without preparation it modulates to what I presume is G major (it's more or less implied), without preparation (like Stravinsky?). 
Then I put a little coda section to end of the theme, which has some really chromatic notes that will give you some fun to play with. It's a cheerful tune reminiscent of Russian and English folk, we'll see how you develop it!


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## Xenakiboy

I think it's done, I'll PM you guys!


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## Xenakiboy

I've sent you all a Pdf (so that you know what it's meant to look like), a mp3 and the musicxml!


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## Alexanbar

Xenakiboy said:


> I've sent you all a Pdf (so that you know what it's meant to look like), a mp3 and the musicxml!


Whether you will upload mp3 to public access?


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## Xenakiboy

Alexanbar said:


> Whether you will upload mp3 to public access?


When this experiment is finished, I would assume that the public will have access to this, yes!


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## Xenakiboy

Can all the people who where sent the files reply to the pm, just for confirmation? thank you


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## Samuel Kristopher

Nice, looking forward to getting stuck into this


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## EdwardBast

Is it too late to get on the list? I just saw this thread and would like to try a variation!


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## Samuel Kristopher

I shouldn't think so - I'm not even sure that we have a deadline on this, although I'm determined to get it done before the end of the week because I'll be away for two weeks after that. If Xenaki doesn't see this, just PM him and he'll send you an XML with the Theme


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## JosefinaHW

Xenakiboy said:


> If nobody else is eager to provide the theme, I will!! :lol:


Posting from my phone. Several months ago i put an ad in the TC classifieds for someone to compose an alternate soundtrack to the movie. SPECTRE. I'm a die-hard Bond Fan and I am very disappointed w Newman's soundtrack. Would u use both the theme from the Sam smith vocal piece and a touch of the Bond film here and there. I am willing to provide a negotiable stipend to all of u!!!!!


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## JosefinaHW

JosefinaHW said:


> Posting from my phone. Several months ago i put an ad in the TC classifieds for someone to compose an alternate soundtrack to the movie. SPECTRE. I'm a die-hard Bond Fan and I am very disappointed w Newman's soundtrack. Would u use both the theme from the Sam smith vocal piece and a touch of the Bond film here and there. I am willing to provide a negotiable stipend to all of u!!!!!


I hate posting from my phone. Can't edit. "Bond Theme"


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## popovichee123

I am fairly new to composing but am interested in giving this a shot if you'll have me. 

Not sure if I'm pro enough to take on a full on variation, but if you need a thematic moderation slotting in there somewhere, I wouldn't mind hearing from you. 

PS I'm on sib7 if that helps. Vocalist, proficient @ piano. Russian influences.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Well, my variation is basically complete. Chop chop guys, no time for slackers 

Edit: What are we doing about key continuity? I followed your keys the whole way through but the piece finishes on A major quite strongly - I notice that your variation ends on B major Xenaki so should we all make sure our variations end on B major for simplicity's sake?

Second Edit: Scratch that, I've just gone and switched it to B major instead. Actually sounds better anyway


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## Crudblud

I finished my variation earlier this afternoon after a brief session last night, but I wasn't sure whether I was supposed to post it here or send it via PM to Xenakiboy, so I've held off. That also gave me some time to write some explanatory notes for the variation. 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone has come up with.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Me too! I'm just going to PM him mine I guess. Explanatory notes though - that's a good idea!


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## JamieHoldham

No idea if this little project is finished or I am too late to join but I would love to write a contrapuntal variation on the theme for fun & to develop my skills a bit


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## Crudblud

Apologies to Xenakiboy, who may well be responding to my PM right now, but I'm opting to err on the side of caution and offer the variation for public consideration.

View attachment Variation No. 4.mp3


Notes:

I know at first glance it might seem like I paid no attention to the theme and wrote completely new material, but that's not the case! My treatment of the theme consists of a few things: fragmentation, inversion, and the "verticalisation" of material into chords. The variation is mostly chords, and centres around the transformation of a five note chord, derived from an inversion of five "verticalised" notes from the main theme, the chord in turn being inverted in relation to a different remote pitch axis (creating a different "harmonic make-up") each time it appears. In some ways the chord functions as the A in a quasi-rondo structure, but its appearances are not consistent in terms of sign-posting, and as it is continually transformed it consistently provides a new footing from which the next episode advances, in addition to developing within the episode itself.

Each of the episodes, which are necessarily very short, consists of fragments of the original theme. These fragments sometimes appear in radically altered forms, the alterations being informed to some degree by the "harmonic make-up" of the central chord at its most recent appearance, as well as by the pitch axis inversion and "verticalisation" techniques already mentioned. In other cases they appear in some way approaching verbatim, but they are far away from their native contexts and may not be immediately familiar because of this. The final episode centres on F-sharp, setting up the conclusion (which reiterates the introduction) and what is almost a resolution on B.

Taken as a whole, the variation is, I guess, pretty far from what a variation is supposed to be, and I have no idea how jarring it will be in sequence, which is why I'm posting it here now.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Fascinating direction - it's all quite mysterious to me but I like that it has a very distinct character, which is what this should all be about, right?


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## JamieHoldham

Took the words right out of my mouth  I enjoyed your variation Crud atleast for your own style of composing


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## Mahlerian

I like your take on it! Perhaps the order be changed so that it's not right next to mine, though; mine is also on the slow side and very freely transformed, but more Romantic than Modern (and in the key of B minor, no less!).


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## Richannes Wrahms

I'm just curious of what the theme is.


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## Samuel Kristopher

> but more Romantic than Modern


Whew, I was hoping I wouldn't be the only Romantic in a sea of Modernism xD


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## Crudblud

Thanks, guys. I'm always pretty self-conscious when it comes to collaboration, even of a kind like this where we aren't necessarily composing together. Also, I suppose I was nervous since it has been the best part of a year since I was last able to compose anything, even something short like this.


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## Samuel Kristopher

I've found this exercise quite enlightening as well, I think in terms of revealing to myself how much I've learned over the last year. 

Since the seal's been broken, I might just go ahead and drop mine here. My Alkan intentions fell away pretty quickly but if I try hard enough I feel like he's still there somewhere, lurking under the surface. Having said that, I can't really put my finger on who it sounds like most.


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## JamieHoldham

Heh, I will be going back to the baroque period with my variation if Xena allows me to join this project, going to go in very heavy with counterpoint, and using the bass line of the theme to make it qualified as a variation, then I have much more free reign in the other areas of a variation such as the melody and rhythm.


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## JamieHoldham

I like that ^^ Short and sweet, sometimes that is best, your variation also kind of reminds me of Mozart..


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## Samuel Kristopher

Now that you mention it, it does... good lord, I have to dust off my Mozart and remember what he sounds like!


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## Xenakiboy

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Well, my variation is basically complete. Chop chop guys, no time for slackers
> 
> Edit: What are we doing about key continuity? I followed your keys the whole way through but the piece finishes on A major quite strongly - I notice that your variation ends on B major Xenaki so should we all make sure our variations end on B major for simplicity's sake?
> 
> Second Edit: Scratch that, I've just gone and switched it to B major instead. Actually sounds better anyway


ATTENTION ALL VARIATIONERS:

You don't have to follow the structure of the theme or tonality, it's part of the point of this experiment. I'd prefer if people *don't* stick to the original tonality at all, but still the two halves of the theme in some form or another! :tiphat:


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## Xenakiboy

Richannes Wrahms said:


> I'm just curious of what the theme is.


All in due time buddy! I'm predicting it'll be on YouTube as a score-scrolling video very soon!


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## JamieHoldham

Just in case you missed my first message, is it still possible for me to enter this project? If so I will need the theme to begin


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## Xenakiboy

I'll work out the official order once I've heard them all, then we'll talk business!  :lol:


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## Xenakiboy

PLEASE VARIATIONERS KEEP A SEAL ON YOUR VARIATIONS UNTIL THE EXPERIMENT IS FINISHED

I'm not angry but please keep it private for the meantime, everybody interested in this will hear it VERY shortly. :tiphat:


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## Crudblud

Samuel Kristopher said:


> I've found this exercise quite enlightening as well, I think in terms of revealing to myself how much I've learned over the last year.
> 
> Since the seal's been broken, I might just go ahead and drop mine here. My Alkan intentions fell away pretty quickly but if I try hard enough I feel like he's still there somewhere, lurking under the surface. Having said that, I can't really put my finger on who it sounds like most.
> 
> View attachment 85753


I like the manic speed in the middle, and the sharp, spiky conclusion. I agree with the Mozart comparison, but to me it sounds a little edgier and has a more outwardly comic tone.


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## SeptimalTritone

Crudblud said:


> I know at first glance it might seem like I paid no attention to the theme and wrote completely new material, but that's not the case! My treatment of the theme consists of a few things: fragmentation, inversion, and the "verticalisation" of material into chords. Taken as a whole, the variation is, I guess, pretty far from what a variation is supposed to be, and I have no idea how jarring it will be in sequence, which is why I'm posting it here now.





Mahlerian said:


> I like your take on it! Perhaps the order be changed so that it's not right next to mine, though; mine is also on the slow side and very freely transformed, but more Romantic than Modern (and in the key of B minor, no less!).


I just pm'd Xenakiboy my variation.

I won't say too much about it in order to follow the rules. In order to help others as a basic guideline: mine is around 1:15 long. With the original theme at 0:40, at Crudblud's at 2:30 and Samuel's at 0:30, it's right about average in length. Remember that typically in western classical music variations are either the same length or longer than the initial theme, but there's often a few that are shorter so I like what we have so far. I also treated the material freely, but because this is meant to be a polystylistic set of variations I think it makes clear enough contact with the material to make it work.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Sorry mate  deleted my attachment. Look forward the final result!


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## Xenakiboy

I started some ideas for my variation today but I've been busy. I also have a job interview tomorrow morning, so I can't start assembling it together till the afternoon. It seems as though this theme + variations may be finished by early next week! :tiphat:


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## Xenakiboy

So far I have variations from:

Kristopher
Mahlerian
Crudblud 
SeptimalTritone

Just a few more waiting!


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## EdwardBast

I wrote one last night. I did what I would do if I were composing a set of variations, that is, began with something preserving the theme, more of less, before exploring more distant possibilities. But of course, I stopped with one …

Tried some arcane contrapuntal procedures. For the repeated first bit I used the retrograde of the theme (transposed) as the bass line. For the next bit I used a mirror inversion as the bass line. From there on it was freer counterpoint. The style is conservatively modern and tonal.

The theme got attached to this post somehow, don't know how to get rid of it.

Edit: I pm'ed an mp3.


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## Mahlerian

SeptimalTritone said:


> I just pm'd Xenakiboy my variation.
> 
> I won't say too much about it in order to follow the rules. In order to help others as a basic guideline: mine is around 1:15 long. With the original theme at 0:40, at Crudblud's at 2:30 and Samuel's at 0:30, it's right about average in length. Remember that typically in western classical music variations are either the same length or longer than the initial theme, but there's often a few that are shorter so I like what we have so far. I also treated the material freely, but because this is meant to be a polystylistic set of variations I think it makes clear enough contact with the material to make it work.


Mine is probably going to be the longest, at 2:50. Every part of the theme is doubled in length and the tempo is half as fast (with some rit. here and there).


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## JamieHoldham

Mine is nearly as finished as I can possibly get it without me starting over again, I am quite a perfectionist and its not the most beautiful counterpoint I have written so far but I'll never submit this any time soon if I take much longer  Just finishing up with ornamentation, possible tempo changes, slurs, accidentals and articulations. By the way Edward your piece doesnt sound too bad at all, like what you did with the mirror inversion as a bassline.


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## JamieHoldham

Finished my variation and PM'd it to Xena, looking forward to the end of this and hearing everyone elses together at once


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## Xenakiboy

I'm currently finishing off my variation. Who's got the high quality midi sequencing to make this sound cohesive and consistant?

Then..... THE FINALE!!!!!


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## Samuel Kristopher

My Sibelius has a pretty decent set of piano VSTs which are a lot better than MIDI, but if somebody has EastWest or another better grade VST package, they're welcome to outbid me


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## Xenakiboy

My variation sounds like schizoid Schnittke version of Liszt or Chopin, which is quite fun honestly! :lol: 

Edit: almost done!


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## Xenakiboy

*I'm very impressed with the quality of all your contributions so far, I'm looking at how it will be assembled currently*

ps. mine is finished!


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## EdwardBast

View attachment 1 X-boy Midi.mid


---------------------------


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## Alexanbar

EdwardBast said:


> View attachment 85811
> 
> 
> ---------------------------


Style of this work looks like Prokofiev 's "Petrushka"


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## Torkelburger

EdwardBast said:


> I wrote one last night. I did what I would do if I were composing a set of variations, that is, began with something preserving the theme, more of less, before exploring more distant possibilities. But of course, I stopped with one …
> 
> Tried some arcane contrapuntal procedures. For the repeated first bit I used the retrograde of the theme (transposed) as the bass line. For the next bit I used a mirror inversion as the bass line. From there on it was freer counterpoint. The style is conservatively modern and tonal.
> 
> The theme got attached to this post somehow, don't know how to get rid of it.
> 
> Edit: I pm'ed an mp3.
> 
> View attachment 85789


This is really good. You've varied the original material creatively and appropriately. I like the harmonic language. Sounds 20th cent. Russian to me, (I agree with above poster) almost like Prokofiev. And I like the way elements of the beginning bass line were brought back at the end.

I'm not sure bar 9 into bar 10 in the left hand is playable at this tempo, however, with those repeated g's. Regardless, the line gets "tripped up" there with those g's. Maybe you could change the last note in bar 9 to an F to fix it. According to the audio, your score is missing a bunch of notes in the right hand from the end of bar 15 into first half of 16.

I didn't know you were a composer until recently! I heard your symphony on soundcloud in its entirety through a thread from several weeks ago and really enjoyed it. Hope to hear more.


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## Xenakiboy

*Everybody involved must read this post!*

Since I am finished and it's now about assembling it together, here is my variation!

View attachment Xenakiboy's Variation.mp3


Now, does anyone have experience with making scrolling score videos?
that's the next step, once everything is tidily gathered up.

Also, Make sure you state what name you want the credit to go to, your profile name or real name. 
If you have any questions, make sure you PM me! :tiphat:


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## EdwardBast

Torkelburger said:


> This is really good. You've varied the original material creatively and appropriately. I like the harmonic language. Sounds 20th cent. Russian to me, (I agree with above poster) almost like Prokofiev. And I like the way elements of the beginning bass line were brought back at the end.
> 
> I'm not sure bar 9 into bar 10 in the left hand is playable at this tempo, however, with those repeated g's. Regardless, the line gets "tripped up" there with those g's. Maybe you could change the last note in bar 9 to an F to fix it. According to the audio, your score is missing a bunch of notes in the right hand from the end of bar 15 into first half of 16.
> 
> I didn't know you were a composer until recently! I heard your symphony on soundcloud in its entirety through a thread from several weeks ago and really enjoyed it. Hope to hear more.


Thanks for your careful look at the music! The repeated G was an error. Certainly should have been an F in any case. Should I do a revised mp3? Revised score? I'm not sure what is being used as the "text" in this project. The missing notes in the right hand in measure 16 aren't really missing. It seems I was playing around and added a third iteration/imitation of that motive between making the score and the MIDI file. The "space" left in the score is better I think.

Anyway, I can revise score or mp3 if that helps? Or can you guys do that on the other end?

That symphony was begun on 9/12/2001. The first movement responded to the images everyone was seeing - I was living in Manhattan at the time. The second movement was supposed to be, in part, a consoling prayer or hymn (from an atheist  ). The last two movements tied things together but weren't written in the heat of the moment like the first two. Glad you enjoyed it. I'll have to post more at some point. I've written five symphonies and lots of chamber music.


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## Alexanbar

Xenakiboy said:


> Now, does anyone have experience with making scrolling score videos?


http://www.flashbackrecorder.com/

See example in the topic My first Contrapunctual work.


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## TwoPhotons

I have experience making "scrolling" sheet music videos like this given that I have audio, and scores in PDF or image format. All I would need to know is the order of the variations, and what the title page should be like.


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## Xenakiboy

TwoPhotons said:


> I have experience making "scrolling" sheet music videos like this given that I have audio, and scores in PDF or image format. All I would need to know is the order of the variations, and what the title page should be like.


Ok, so you're happy to undertake that once all the movements are assembled? :tiphat:


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## TwoPhotons

I should say, I'll be unavailable between Thursday and Sunday, but if I get materials before/after then it shouldn't be a problem.  Otherwise another member can take over.


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## Samuel Kristopher

So folks, since I'm doing the audio and sheet music formatting, I just want to say that I'm trying as faithfully as possible to accurately notate those who provided MIDI or PDFs. An example of where there might be some errors is in carrying over accidentals to following bars - Sibelius likes to automatically notate clearly at the start of the bar that notes, which contained accidentals in a previous bar, have returned to their original key. I've noticed that the PDFs provided didn't seem to contain this, so I assumed (hopefully with good reason) that the return to original key is implied. 

There were also some instances within a bar where for example, a D would be designated D#, whereas a D in a different octave (but in the same bar) would lack the accidental. In that case I assumed that the unmarked D remained as D-natural.


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## EdwardBast

Samuel Kristopher said:


> So folks, since I'm doing the audio and sheet music formatting, I just want to say that I'm trying as faithfully as possible to accurately notate those who provided MIDI or PDFs. An example of where there might be some errors is in carrying over accidentals to following bars - Sibelius likes to automatically notate clearly at the start of the bar that notes, which contained accidentals in a previous bar, have returned to their original key. I've noticed that the PDFs provided didn't seem to contain this, so I assumed (hopefully with good reason) that the return to original key is implied.
> 
> There were also some instances within a bar where for example, a D would be designated D#, whereas a D in a different octave (but in the same bar) would lack the accidental. In that case I assumed that the unmarked D remained as D-natural.


Hello SK,

I created my pdf from a Sibelius file, so it follows the notation conventions of that software. My pdf contained an error: The first note in the bass staff of m. 10 should be F, not G. If you are copying the music in Sibelius, would it be helpful for me to send my variation in Sibelius (6) format?

Thanks!
Ed Bast


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## Samuel Kristopher

Your one didn't give me any trouble, Ed, but thanks for mentioning the error again - I forgot about that! 

It's taking quite a while though. I'm going to take a break and come back to it in a while - it's the copying from PDF into Sibelius that takes the longest. What I wouldn't give for a decent bit of software that can scan PDFs and churn out a finished Sib project file! 

And yes I've tried the one from the Sibelius package and I never had much success with it - either it sucks or I'm a moron >.>


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## EdwardBast

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Your one didn't give me any trouble, Ed, but thanks for mentioning the error again - I forgot about that!
> 
> It's taking quite a while though. I'm going to take a break and come back to it in a while - it's the copying from PDF into Sibelius that takes the longest. What I wouldn't give for a decent bit of software that can scan PDFs and churn out a finished Sib project file!
> 
> And yes I've tried the one from the Sibelius package and I never had much success with it - either it sucks or I'm a moron >.>


I could help with the copying, although I would have to export the Sibelius file as version 5. Don't think that would be a problem, would it? I have worked professionally as a copyist and am pretty quick with it. If you want to send me one of the pdfs I could do it today and send it in an email (if you provide an address). So let me know if you want help.

EB


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## SeptimalTritone

Samuel Kristopher said:


> There were also some instances within a bar where for example, a D would be designated D#, whereas a D in a different octave (but in the same bar) would lack the accidental. In that case I assumed that the unmarked D remained as D-natural.


Heh. I know whose piece that one is.

I'm not very tech-savvy, but I think one can download from my entry on the Musescore site an XML file, which I think should hopefully be openable in Sibelius, then you wouldn't need to worry about things in detail.

My piece is here https://musescore.com/user/4084206/scores/2285876

You might need to get a Musescore account to download this as an XML file, but that's free and just requires your email.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Thanks guys, that's all very helpful  

If you could Jamie Holdham's PDF Ed, that would definitely speed things up, thanks! Could you PM me your email address? I can email you his PDF and when you're done you could just send it back to me  a Sib5 file is probably fine - I'm sure my Sib7 could still open it, although an XML file is fine as well.


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## Rongtian

Can you guys make a variation to this song I wrote. I'd like to see a good example of a variation


__
https://soundcloud.com/rongtian-yue%2Fa-normal-day


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## Alexanbar

Rongtian said:


> Can you guys make a variation to this song I wrote. I'd like to see a good example of a variation
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/rongtian-yue%2Fa-normal-day


You'd better place this post in the separate topic.

I can't find the voice partition.

And at last you neeed upload a score (*.mxml file)


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## Xenakiboy

*Alright, who wants to make the FINALE??* :tiphat:


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## EdwardBast

Xenakiboy said:


> *Alright, who wants to make the FINALE??* :tiphat:


I don't know about that, but is anyone interested in having an accurate score for this thing? The notated version of my variation in the share folder is wildly different from what I actually wrote. Has anyone else noticed such discrepancies? Two Photons' variation is missing some lines on playback but I really haven't proofread further. If we are ultimately wanting to have an accurate text I would be willing to notate the whole thing in Sibelius - I've worked professionally as a copyist. This would require that contributors proofread the pdf text of their variation keeping track of errors.

Anyway, let me know.


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## Xenakiboy

EdwardBast said:


> I don't know about that, but is anyone interested in having an accurate score for this thing? The notated version of my variation in the share folder is wildly different from what I actually wrote. Has anyone else noticed such discrepancies? Two Photons' variation is missing some lines on playback but I really haven't proofread further. If we are ultimately wanting to have an accurate text I would be willing to notate the whole thing in Sibelius - I've worked professionally as a copyist. This would require that contributors proofread the pdf text of their variation keeping track of errors.
> 
> Anyway, let me know.


I'd be honored for you to do that.  :tiphat:

I've noticed various issues with the pdf, though the sound is virtually the same.
Mine goes into a 2/4 allegro toward the end of my variation, but the pdf goes into 4/4. The beats, transfer the start of the arpeggios in the final few bars to the end in the second half of the bars. Because of an odd amount of beats, with the half-not rests in the allegro. Do you want me to send the PDF of _my variation_ to fix that?

p.s. Do you have the final variation?


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## EdwardBast

In order to make an accurate fair copy, all of the contributors would need to tell me what is incorrect in the pdf versions of their variations, or else scan and send a version with the corrections indicated. The key signatures are off for sure — It stays in five sharps, missing the signature changes in the theme and everywhere else. Could you send a request to the troops for corrections? I don't want to start the work until the necessary data to complete it is in hand.

I already have a good start on the copying since my version, the theme, and Samuel Christopher's (I believe) are already notated in Sibelius. (I did the theme from the jpeg you sent before writing my variation.) 

By the way: Did you mean to eliminate the repeat of the theme's first four measures? I think it sounds more balanced with the repeat in — and a couple of the variations are based on the repeat being there.


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## TwoPhotons

I had a look through my PDF, for clarity's sake I should point out that when the 3rd staff comes in at measure 5, it should have 4 sharps (C# minor), just like the rest of the lines. I just couldn't figure out how to make the key signature appear solely on the top line, without appearing on the other two lines as well (which would just look messy). Also, I don't think there's any need to worry about the paranthesised accidental in measure 7, RH...it's redundant. However, it might be beneficial to have accidentals on *all* LH G#s from measures 14 to 19, to emphasise the fact they're not G naturals!

Apart from that I don't think there are any other errors in mine.


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## Mahlerian

Mine was also created in Sibelius, though I sent a MuseScore copy to Xenakiboy, and the PDF was created from the original. If you would prefer me to export a Sibelius file, just tell me what version of Sibelius you have.


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## EdwardBast

Mahlerian said:


> Mine was also created in Sibelius, though I sent a MuseScore copy to Xenakiboy, and the PDF was created from the original. If you would prefer me to export a Sibelius file, just tell me what version of Sibelius you have.


Mahlerian, Two Photons and all:

Sorry for the delayed response. I have Sibelius 6. So it seems at least four of the original scores were done in Sibelius. If I can get corrections from everyone I will recopy the remaining pdfs into Sibelius and compile a score. One of the big questions I have about the pdf is how many of you actually composed your variation with a five-sharp key signature. I think that was imposed mechanically by MuseScore or something? Needless to say, it would be a pain to copy from a pdf in the wrong key and have to deal with all the accidentals. When I get a path to getting all corrections, I will send an address for those who have Sibelius files to send them, and for those whose original was not in a five-sharp signature to send a pdf with your variation in the right key (or with the right signature).

Meanwhile, just for fun, I composed a little fugue on the theme. It's a little dense and should breathe more but …

Revised (corrected) version:


__
https://soundcloud.com/gwyon%2Fx-boy-fugue-rev


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## Xenakiboy

Edward, I'll send off my pdf score when I get back from work in the afternoon.


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## EdwardBast

Xenakiboy said:


> Edward, I'll send off my pdf score when I get back from work in the afternoon.


Okay! No big rush.


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## KenOC

EdwardBast said:


> Meanwhile, just for fun, I composed a little fugue on the theme. It's a little dense and should breathe more but …
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/gwyon%2Fx-boy-fugue-rev


Hey, that's quite nice! Dmitri would like it, I'm sure. If it's going to be the finale, maybe it ought to develop out to a full five voices and then have the theme ingeniously combine with _Ein Feste Berg _and the _Ode to Joy _with the entry of the full orchestra and, finally, the cannons. Just a thought, of course. 

Oh, and just kidding. Though I'd still like to hear it!


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## Alexanbar

Some my ideas about the Xenakiboy's theme

https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2317651

It's not a finshed composition.

I can't work with 3 compositions on the moment.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Guys I'm back! Horrible holiday, no internet whatsoever at that place!!! Well, anyway, how's the variation going?


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## Xenakiboy

I think it's almost finished, Edward's getting together the final files (to my knowledge). :tiphat:
How was your holiday?


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## Xenakiboy

Alexanbar said:


> Some my ideas about the Xenakiboy's theme
> 
> https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2317651
> 
> It's not a finshed composition.
> 
> I can't work with 3 compositions on the moment.


Interesting approach to the theme, would you be able to rearrange that for solo piano?


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## Alexanbar

Xenakiboy said:


> Interesting approach to the theme, would you be able to rearrange that for solo piano?


I would try to do it.


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## Samuel Kristopher

Holiday was rubbish! Never go holidaying in unknown Russian wilderness... >.<"


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## Pugg

Samuel Kristopher said:


> Holiday was rubbish! Never go holidaying in unknown Russian wilderness... >.<"


I like to see St Petersburg though .:tiphat:


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## Samuel Kristopher

> I like to see St Petersburg though .


Me too, and I live here  After two years I still haven't been to the hermitage. I guess it's common to postpone these things when there's no time pressure. Guaranteed the week before I leave I'll suddenly realise and try to everything at the last moment!


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## prasad94

I haven't read through the rest of this post, but sounds very exciting! I'd love to try building, reharmonizing, counterpointing, fiddly-diddlydiddling and messing around with other composers ideas!


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## Alexanbar

I did the rearrangement of my variation for piano solo.
I don't know whether the real pianist to play it. 
It' s not a final variant.
See https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2395991


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## Vasks

Alexanbar said:


> I don't know whether the real pianist to play it.
> .
> See https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2395991


Good luck with the hand span in m.9 & m.27 for example.


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## Alexanbar

Vasks said:


> Good luck with the hand span in m.9 & m.27 for example.


I understood. I'll refine.
Simple merging of parties is not working.


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## EdwardBast

Here are mp3, Sibelius, and pdf versions of the score for the X-Boy Variations. Let me know if anything else is needed to finish the project.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxvnkZLt4IMFWlVjeXA3dFJqYnM/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxvnkZLt4IMFOGpVOHF5cGJRTW8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxvnkZLt4IMFWkZ6c3FHYndOQzA/view?usp=sharing

Edit: 
Any last minute corrections can easily be entered, so don't hesitate to tell me. I did not realize the ornaments in the finale variation (Jamie Holdham's), although I would be glad to do so if someone provides me with a text in which they are written out. Alternatively, perhaps someone knows how to get them to play back from the symbols themselves?

I couldn't find the velocity commands in Crudblud's variation, and I didn't want to just guess the dynamics. It plays back with dynamics, however, so the data must be there somewhere. I am ready to enter dynamics in a final final version if anyone can tell me what exactly to enter.


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## Xenakiboy

I'll look into them later tonight.
After everyone has agreed on the finished version, it's up to anyone able to make a scrolling score video for YouTube.
Then if there are any pianists on Talkclassical up for a challenge to learn and perform it? 

Other than that, this experiment would be considered done! :tiphat:

(Ps. I'll save my thank you'd for after we've gotten approvals from everyone else)


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## ricardo_jvc6

Slick idea! Has any idea for the theme been given out?


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## EdwardBast

ricardo_jvc6 said:


> Slick idea! Has any idea for the theme been given out?


The theme was composed by Xenakiboy weeks ago and a set of eight variations has been composed by TC members. The project is nearly done except for making a scrolling score and posting a virtual performance.


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## JamieHoldham

EdwardBast said:


> The theme was composed by Xenakiboy weeks ago and a set of eight variations has been composed by TC members. The project is nearly done except for making a scrolling score and posting a virtual performance.


I am sure we can do more in the future though possibly. I would be up for it again.


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## Xenakiboy

I still forgot again, forgive me I've been busy with non-music related business. I'll check it out before my computer gets packed up for a few days (I'm moving)


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## Pugg

Xenakiboy said:


> I still forgot again, forgive me I've been busy with non-music related business. I'll check it out before my computer gets packed up for a few days (I'm moving)


We can wait a bit longer, just kidding, mind the moving boxes so nothing get lost .


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## Alexanbar

My variations were updated.

https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2395991 (piano solo)

https://musescore.com/user/102760/scores/2317651 (several instruments)


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## Xenakiboy

I'm listening to the variations right now, there seems to be some huge mistakes with my variation at the end, not the way it was written. Edward, should I link you the original mp3 or musicXML?


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## Xenakiboy

EdwardBast said:


> The theme was composed by Xenakiboy weeks ago and a set of eight variations has been composed by TC members. The project is nearly done except for making a scrolling score and posting a virtual performance.


Yes, there will be no more variations on this theme, but we can start another if people are still interested!


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## EdwardBast

Xenakiboy said:


> I'm listening to the variations right now, there seems to be some huge mistakes with my variation at the end, not the way it was written. Edward, should I link you the original mp3 or musicXML?


Send me something in notation and I will correct any errors. (MusicXML is notation right?) Guess you missed the original call for proofreading! 

It would be helpful if the score you send uses the actual key signatures. I was working from a file that used five sharps throughout.


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## Samuel Kristopher

> It would be helpful if the score you send uses the actual key signatures. I was working from a file that used five sharps throughout.


That was my fault I think. I was doing a very rushed job because I had to finish it that night and I wasn't paying a lot of attention to details like that, sorry!


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## Alexanbar

See the soundtrack of my variation (several instruments).

Do not be afraid of dissonances inside the composition


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## JamieHoldham

Hmm, honestly my variation was a rushed piece of rubbish so if it's less effort and makes it easier I wouldnt mind sitting it out this time - I would have redone a variation if I didn't have to send off my PC back a while ago.


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## Pugg

JamieHoldham said:


> Hmm, honestly my variation was a rushed piece of rubbish so if it's less effort and makes it easier I wouldn't mind sitting it out this time - I would have redone a variation if I didn't have to send off my PC back a while ago.


No come on Jamie, not so modest .


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## WarmWater

I can't wait to listen to the finished product. I'm eager.


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