# St Matthew Passion



## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Can someone recommend a good box set, sung in German and with the full libretto?


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## Meaghan (Jul 31, 2010)

I've only listened to 1.5 recordings of the St. Matthew Passion, but here are the recommendations people gave me:
http://www.talkclassical.com/13571-recommend-st-matthew-passion.html


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Meaghan said:


> I've only listened to 1.5 recordings of the St. Matthew Passion, but here are the recommendations people gave me:
> http://www.talkclassical.com/13571-recommend-st-matthew-passion.html


Many thanks Meaghan. I missed that thread, so will check it out.


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## GoneBaroque (Jun 16, 2011)

Annie, The one I have is the Klemperer recording. It is done with large orchestral and choral forces and has probable the slowest tempo of any. Some think it too slow but to me it is reverential and stately. Its major plus in my mind is its stellar casting: Peter Pears, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Elisabeth Schwartzkopf, Christa Ludwig, Nicolai Gedda, Walter Berry, Wilfred Broewn, John Carol Case, Geraint Evans, Otakar Kraus and Helen Watts. There are a number of versions with smaller forces, and you may prefer that and lighter tempos. One which I have not heard but has deawn good recommendations is The Ricardo Chailly on Decca. It is a more dramatic interpretation and has the advantage of being on only two discs. But it main attractions are the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, the Leipzig St. Thomas Church Choir, the Tölz Boys Choir and Thomas Quasthoff. I am getting tempted myself.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

GoneBaroque said:


> Annie, The one I have is the Klemperer recording. It is done with large orchestral and choral forces and has probable the slowest tempo of any. Some think it too slow but to me it is reverential and stately. Its major plus in my mind is its stellar casting: Peter Pears, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Elisabeth Schwartzkopf, Christa Ludwig, Nicolai Gedda, Walter Berry, Wilfred Broewn, John Carol Case, Geraint Evans, Otakar Kraus and Helen Watts. There are a number of versions with smaller forces, and you may prefer that and lighter tempos. One which I have not heard but has deawn good recommendations is The Ricardo Chailly on Decca. It is a more dramatic interpretation and has the advantage of being on only two discs. But it main attractions are the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, the Leipzig St. Thomas Church Choir, the Tölz Boys Choir and Thomas Quasthoff. I am getting tempted myself.


Many thanks Rob for the info.

Of course I won't know the tempo until it starts so that's not really a factor at the moment. I know I'll enjoy it so much more if I can get some of it in my memory before I go.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Last Tuesday 3rd April I attended a performance of St Matthew Passion held in King's College Chapel, Cambridge. I'm familiar with it but had never seen it live.

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King's College Choir
Choristers of Jesus & St Catherine's Colleges
Academy of Ancient Music

Stephen Cleobury _conductor_

James Gilchrist _Evangelist_
David Wilson-Johnson _Christus_
Richard Lloyd Morgan _Pilate_
Sophie Bevan _soprano_
James Laing _counter-tenor_
Thomas Walker _tenor_
Lukas Jakobski _bass_

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This isn't a critique, just some thoughts & observations.

I had listened to the music lots of times & had done some homework but I took the opportunity to have a look around the Chapel the day before & also to attend a study session 'Exploring the Passion' with Bach scholar Professor John Butt which was being held in King's College itself. After getting totally lost in the college & then nearly colliding with Lukas Jakobski D) who would later be singing the bass arias, I found my way to the lecture hall. If a two hour study session sounds a bit 'dry' it was far from it. Prof. Butt is a fascinating & engaging exponent & later in the lecture he was joined by two of the evening's soloists James Gilchrist (Evangelist) and David Wilson-Johnson (Christus). Some of it was a bit over my head but I'm really pleased I went.

I'd been looking forward to the performance for months & thought I knew what to expect but nothing could have prepared me for the experience of actually seeing it & hearing it live. The Chapel was built in about 1515 & the feeling of history is almost tangible but in a calming & tranquil way. This atmosphere, together with the extraordinary acoustics, makes for a perfect setting.

I was spellbound by the whole performance; I loved its rhythm & pace & the way the music & the voices reverberated around the old walls & in the quieter sections seemed to float up to the ceiling & back again, enfolding the listeners. I loved the silences & the one at the end was especially spine tingling.

The AAM, the King's College Choir & the choristers were superb. The singing from all the soloists was just gorgeous & at the end, their contribution was suitably acknowledged by sustained applause & they were recalled several times to receive yet more acclaim from the audience.

Afterwards I really didn't want to leave & sat in my seat thinking about what I'd just heard & trying to understand why it had affected me so much. It's had a profound effect on me, not in any religious sense but has definitely given me plenty to think about. I do know I want to see it again & at this venue. Next year's performance has a provisional date of either 25th or 26th March 2013 with Christoph Genz already named as the Evangelist & Andreas Scholl named as the counter-tenor.

  

(PS The sign in the Chapel says 'No Flash' rather than 'No Photos' otherwise I wouldn't have used my camera)


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your St Matthew Passion experience, Annie. I attended a performance of the St Matthew Passion on Good Friday (6 April) here in Johannesburg. It was at our regular concert venue. I will write a review of it today and post it here.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Moira said:


> Thank you for sharing your St Matthew Passion experience, Annie. I attended a performance of the St Matthew Passion on Good Friday (6 April) here in Johannesburg. It was at our regular concert venue. I will write a review of it today and post it here.


Oooh, yes I'd love to hear about your experience.


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## eorrific (May 14, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your wonderful experience, Annie. Listening to St. Matthew Passion on CD is wonderful enough, I can't imagine to be able to listen to it LIVE and at such a beautiful venue.


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

St Matthew Passion

The Symphony Choir of Johannesburg brought the 'greatest story ever told' to life on Good Friday. 

The St Matthew Passion by Johann Sebastian Bach is one of the great sacred oratorios. Written in 1727 for solo voices, double choir and double orchestra, it is a setting by Christian Friedrich Henrici of chapters 26 and 27 of the Gospel according to St Matthew in Martin Luther's German translation. It was probably first performed on Good Friday in the Thomaskirche in Leipzig. 

The Symphony Choir of Johannesburg and the Johannesburg Festival Orchestra presented this work on Good Friday 2012 at the Linder Auditorium under the baton of Richard Cock. In his programme notes, Richard Cock says “Bach's St Matthew Passion is by general consent technically, emotionally and devotionally the greatest work of its kind ever written. Christ's words are distinguished from the others by being accompanied by a halo of strings and various characters have their place in the work – some of the music is thrillingly realistic (the rending of the veil, the earthquake and the shouts of the crowd) and some of the solos are absolutely heart-rending in their expressiveness.”

The Linder Auditorium was packed, with only one empty seat, co-incidentally in the row in which I was sitting. The people next to me insisted that they were expecting someone and that the organisers could not use that seat for one of the hopefuls waiting outside. Performances of the Symphony Choir of Johannesburg are always sold out. 

No artistic attempt was made to mount this work in an historical context, so the work is performed with a huge choir, and six soloists who do not form part of the choir. One of the choristers sings the role of Peter. The two orchestras share an organ, with Sue Cock playing for both. Logistically it makes sense to use only one organ, but it does mean that Sue Cock worked exceptionally hard throughout as she provided the continuo for the entire performance. She's more than up to the task, delivering a fine example of the genre. 

I found that overall the pace of the music was somewhat slower than I would have liked, but despite its length I didn't experience the “fidgits” (which I have to force myself to restrain) I always get in performances of Messiah. I was able to enter into the worship experience as we worked our way through the narrative with the story being both told and commented upon. 

Speaking of the narrative, the tenor Evangelist was Bernard Loonen. Other soloists were Lynelle Kenned, Veramarie Meyer, Siyabonga Maqungo, Jaco Klopper and Hendre van Zyl as a warm resonant Jesus. The soloists were all wonderful, each delivering a fine and beautifully modulated recitative which moved seamlessly into their arias, but it was the performance of Jaco Klopper which blew me away. He has an exquisite bass voice, clear as a bell despite it being in the bottom range, which makes it possible to hear every word. It was a real pleasure listening to him. The only gripe I had was that the performance was being played live on radio as it happened. The usual recording mikes used by the Johannesburg Philharmonic were in place but they had added some for the vocal solos, notably two in the front. Because of lack of space on the stage the soloists were seated at the side and had to move across the stage into place each time, a process which I found mildly distracting. The choir's diction and textual nuance was less exciting than that of the soloists, but the sound was always pleasing. 

At many points during the performance I got goosebumps as I shared the sentiments being sung. I love settings of the Passion which end with crucifixion and leave one to go home forlorn and without hope, in the mould of the first disciples. It makes the joy of Easter so much sharper, even for those of us who believe it year round.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Thank you Moira for a thoughtful & intelligent review. What language was it sung in? In the 'Exploring the Passion' study lecture, language was discussed & both singers said they preferred to sing it in German. I've not heard it in English but I think I'd prefer German, I always prefer my opera in its original language.

At 'mine', because of the venue, all the soloists sat on raised platforms. Evangelist & Christ sat to one side, stood to speak but didn't move their positions. The other soloists sat on the other side & as the time came for their recits & arias, they moved to the middle & stepped on to a slightly higher platform which was great as they wouldn't have been seen so well otherwise. I couldn't see their feet but these four soloists must have worn soft soled shoes as they didn't make a sound as they walked to and from the middle.


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## sah (Feb 28, 2012)

I think nobody mentioned this one:









Interesting review here


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## Moira (Apr 1, 2012)

Sung in German with a booklet with the words and the English translation being available to purchase with the programme. I never thought to mention this in the review, although I would have if it were a different language.

Our soloists wore heels against the wooden floors and they clattered along. 

The Linder Auditorium is our regular classical concert venue, hosting the Johannesburg Symphony Orchestra seasons, the Symphony Choir of Johannesburg concerts, the Johannesburg Musical Society Concerts, some of the Black Tie Ensemble VO1SS (opera) concerts as well as a wide variety of other classical concerts as they happen. Usually they also host the two big Johannesburg International Mozart Festival concerts - the opening and the closing, but this year the JIMF seem to have partnered with the University of Johannesburg where a lot of the concerts were held. The UJ theatre is half the size which makes it about right for JIMF concerts.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

If anyone's interested there's a recording of the lecture I attended.


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## tgtr0660 (Jan 29, 2010)

Ok I have quite a few recordings of the complete work (obviously) so a a few comments: 

Netherlands Bach Society - Jos Van Veldhoven - fantastic version, superb edition and booklet, one voice per part though choruses sound rich and full. Excellent. 

Collegium Vocale Gent - Philliphe Herreweghe - probably the best HIP version in my collection, it's absolutely amazing in every regard. I just wished the last chours was taken a little more slowly. 

La Petite Band - Gustav Leonhardt - good version but for HIP (my prefferred option with Bach, though some non-HIP recordings are good as I will describe soon), check the ones above. 

Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra - Ton Koopman - my great HIP hope. I haven't yet heard it, the only one I still haven't (I will in the next three weeks) but from all I've read this is the version I'm looking for with more time and body in the opening and closing choruses (the Herreweghe is almost perfect, not perfect). 

GewandhausOrchester - Riccardo Chailly - good version with great singing and playing but some moments sound Mozartian almost in their grace and flow, which is not what I was looking for. Chailly italianizes the work a little too much for my taste. 

Hungarian State Symphony Orchestra - Geza Oberfrank - this old Naxos recording in modern instruments was my first one and it's still good. 

Munchner Bach Orchestra - Karl Richter - there is a reason why this recording is regarded as legendary. Only the most hardcore HIP fans will not like this perfect modern-instrument version. 

Philharmonia - Otto Klemperer - this version is really unique. The opening chorus lasts over ten minutes, it really takes forever, but it has a special connection with the subject at hand. This will not be a version for everyody, is gigantic, elephantistic, but I like it. 

CSO - Solti - I've always said that my favorite conductor isn't perfect. Case in point. Decent version but pales next to all the other ones. The highlight are the choruses though they sound a little too full and gigantic and the confessional, intimate element is lost. What works for Wagner doesn't work for Baroque music. Solti's Messiah is much better.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I only have three at the moment & prefer the Herreweghe.


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## Amfibius (Jul 19, 2006)

Annie, your Herreweghe looks like the one without Ian Bostridge in it  Go find that one, it is a real killer disc!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Amfibius said:


> Annie, your Herreweghe looks like the one without Ian Bostridge in it  Go find that one, it is a real killer disc!


Thanks for the info. I probably will get another CD but at the moment I don't want to listen to any version because I want to keep what I saw in my memory for as long as I can.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

Peter Sellars and SMP.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Vaneyes said:


> Peter Sellars and SMP.


Thanks Vaneyes but I'll have to watch with the screen turned off as Peter Sellars' hair irritates me so much. Why does he insist on looking such a prat??


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## Discobole (Mar 28, 2012)

I don't really agree the first Herreweghe is that good. It is a little too empty of drama, and it's one of the worst recordings of René Jacobs singing, he is really off key (funny because the Leonhardt version is one of the best by Jacobs).

My favorite versions would be :
1. Harnoncourt I : I never get tired of it, a sense of drama, a theatracality I can't find anywhere else, this is THE Passion to know
2. Leonhardt : wonderful ensemble and singers, a reference in its style, but I find it a little too "cold"
3. Harnoncourt II : a little less daring than the first ones (and without the boys voices it is a little less remarkable), but it could be considered as the modern reference

But let's not forget Herreweghe II (better drama than in the first version), Koopman (not bad at all, it's a shame he is so easily forgotten), McCreesh (interesting 1vpp)


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

sospiro said:


> Thanks Vaneyes but I'll have to watch with the screen turned off as Peter Sellars' hair irritates me so much. Why does he insist on looking such a prat??


Mine probably looks like that most mornings (a little grayer), but I'm not on camera.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Vaneyes said:


> Mine probably looks like that most mornings (a little grayer), but I'm not on camera.


:lol:

Yes but yours is accidental & understandable, his is deliberate


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Interesting review of St Matthew Passion from a non-Christian.

I'm not religious but that didn't prevent me from having a wonderful & emotional evening.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

A new DVD which is on my wish list.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

sospiro said:


> A new DVD which is on my wish list.


I may still prefer the old school version. The video may not be superb, but the chorus is memorable. After so many "modern" period, slim down performances, this massive force really poured out the emotion of the great work.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

powerbooks said:


> I may still prefer the old school version. The video may not be superb, but the chorus is memorable. After so many "modern" period, slim down performances, this massive force really poured out the emotion of the great work.


Looks interesting but this is sung in English & although English makes the work more accessible, I prefer the original language.

If anyone can recommend a DVD sung in German & viewable world wide, I'd be grateful.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

sospiro said:


> Looks interesting but this is sung in English & although English makes the work more accessible, I prefer the original language.
> 
> If anyone can recommend a DVD sung in German & viewable world wide, I'd be grateful.


Unless my memory fails me, this DVD is definitely sung in German. Think about it: all German cast and choirs, including children, why do they use English? I don't have it at hand now (need to find it!), but Amazon has misleading information. The DVD has English menu, and subtitles, but it is sung in German.


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

This is part I of the DVD (Disc 1):


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## powerbooks (Jun 30, 2012)

And here is Part II (Disc 2). You be the judge:


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

powerbooks said:


> Unless my memory fails me, this DVD is definitely sung in German. Think about it: all German cast and choirs, including children, why do they use English? I don't have it at hand now (need to find it!), but Amazon has misleading information. The DVD has English menu, and subtitles, but it is sung in German.


Thanks powerbooks. It's Region 1 so I'd have to view it through my PC but I might order it anyway.


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## Bas (Jul 24, 2012)

Dunedin Consort & Players, cond. John Butt is the most beautiful I've ever heard, but I like Herreweghe's too.

Both will come with a full libretto.
















In terms of sound quality you should go for the Linn recording (Dunedin Consort). Excellent recording, something that is to me as important as the playing itself is.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

The more I learn about St Matthew Passion, the more I enjoy it & my obsession shows no signs of abating! I had wanted to go to Cambridge to see it again there but I've changed my plans. 
Will be seeing it in Amsterdam next March, my first time at the Concertgebouw & VERY excited. Then I'm seeing it again in London. It's on at St. George's Hanover Square as part of the London Handel Festival .


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## principe (Sep 3, 2012)

A work beyond any praise, undoubtedly, but not an easy one to get into it. Patience and perseverance may have an enchanting effect, before which all musical difficulties may disappear and artistic or cultural obstacles vanish, while, at the same time, all the immense beauty and musical richness of the Passion emerge.

Principe


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

principe said:


> A work beyond any praise, undoubtedly, but not an easy one to get into it. Patience and perseverance may have an enchanting effect, before which all musical difficulties may disappear and artistic or cultural obstacles vanish, while, at the same time, all the immense beauty and musical richness of the Passion emerge.
> 
> Principe


Thank you for such a beautiful and poetic response. I am looking also forward to seeing it performed in such different venues. The Concertgebouw holds about 2000 and St George's Church considerably less!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

I understand that if it's "set in the context of Vespers" this means there's a sermon at the interval.

Does anyone know if there are there any other features which makes it different from a performance in a concert hall?

Link


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

I might not be completely mentally healthy, but count me among those who love the Klemperer recording.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Xaltotun said:


> I might not be completely mentally healthy, but count me among those who love the Klemperer recording.


I don't know enough about the different recordings & I don't have this one but why would people not like the Klemperer?


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## Xaltotun (Sep 3, 2010)

sospiro said:


> I don't know enough about the different recordings & I don't have this one but why would people not like the Klemperer?


I think some people have described it quite well in this thread... it's so massive, slow, stately and overwhelmingly religious, that it's somewhat of an odd-ball. The kind of record that you'll either love or hate.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Discobole said:


> I don't really agree the first Herreweghe is that good. It is a little too empty of drama, and it's one of the worst recordings of René Jacobs singing, he is really off key (funny because the Leonhardt version is one of the best by Jacobs).
> 
> My favorite versions would be :
> 1. Harnoncourt I : I never get tired of it, a sense of drama, a theatracality I can't find anywhere else, this is THE Passion to know
> ...


I have both Herrewehges now & I actually prefer the earlier version. I find the later one too theatrical.

Can anyone post photos of the covers of the two Harnoncourts so I know which one Discobole was describing? Thanks.


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Xaltotun said:


> I think some people have described it quite well in this thread... it's so massive, slow, stately and overwhelmingly religious, that it's somewhat of an odd-ball. The kind of record that you'll either love or hate.


Yes, I see what you mean. Might get that version later.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

For Harnoncourt's latest with superb soloists and a lifetime of wisdom.


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## Novelette (Dec 12, 2012)

Gardiner's Recording is very nice.

I dare be known to prefer St. John's Passion to St. Matthew's. Still, you can't go wrong with Bach.


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## rarevinyllibrary (Aug 9, 2013)

Chailly is an excellent pick.


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## DavidA (Dec 14, 2012)

The best all round for me is Harnoncourt's latest version. It seems to combine the virtues of period practice with superb soloists and orchestral playing. Of course, there are also many other versions with much to say about this monumental work.


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## TrevBus (Jun 6, 2013)

sospiro said:


> Thanks Vaneyes but I'll have to watch with the screen turned off as Peter Sellars' hair irritates me so much. Why does he insist on looking such a prat??


At least he HAS hair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

Well this is a version I've not heard about


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## SimonNZ (Jul 12, 2012)

^ I just went to that address at the bottom of the poster and checked their concerts for March 28/29.

It says Bach on the page. So somebody in advertising is getting caned.

My first thought was that it was going to be some composite they'd made of shorter Handel pieces to texts from the book of Matthew (assuming he wrote such things)


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## sospiro (Apr 3, 2010)

SimonNZ said:


> ^ I just went to that address at the bottom of the poster and checked their concerts for March 28/29.
> 
> It says Bach on the page. So somebody in advertising is getting caned.
> 
> My first thought was that it was going to be some composite they'd made of shorter Handel pieces to texts from the book of Matthew (assuming he wrote such things)


Some interesting comments


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