# Do you know of "Atonal" music outside classical/jazz?



## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

and apart from some Zappa tracks... 

I'm starting to like atonal music a lot, and usually I like non-classical music more than classical... so you get the logic :lol:

I leave Jazz out because I listened to some 12 tone Jazz already, and I'm profoundly not intenrested in Jazz as a whole, really.


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Zauberberg said:


> and apart from some Zappa tracks...
> 
> I'm starting to like atonal music a lot, and usually I like non-classical music more than classical... so you get the logic :lol:
> 
> I leave Jazz out because I listened to some 12 tone Jazz already, and I'm profoundly not intenrested in Jazz as a whole, really.


This gets close, although it is still tonal. I call this "pointillist rock" after Webern.






Also, this track:






Try this:


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Hi, Zauberberg.

Would you be interested in some recommendations on soundtrack albums?
The amount of atonal film scores is probably greater than one might realize. 
Look beyond the mainstream (and the blockbuster franchises), and atonal music can be found in films -
especially within the 20-year period from about 1955 through 1974.

What media formats are you accepting? Out-of-print CDs? Vinyl LPs? Or simply You Tube videos?


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Prodromides said:


> Hi, Zauberberg.
> 
> Would you be interested in some recommendations on soundtrack albums?
> The amount of atonal film scores is probably greater than one might realize.
> ...


I'll take some of those out-of print CDs!


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

Here's one OOP CD:

Leonard Rosenman's original 1966 recordings @ Fox studios for _Fantastic Voyage_, first on disc in 1998.










Rosenman had left California in 1962 to live in Italy for a while.
In addition to conducting concerts, I think Rosenman also studied with Dallapiccola.
When Rosenman returned to the States by 1966, his score for _Fantastic Voyage_ was one of his
first post-Italy film scores.
Reportedly, the studio musicians all stood up at the end of the recording sessions to applaud Rosenman's music.


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

Ruins is an interesting example from Japan. It overlaps with jazz to an extent, but is much more based in Zeuhl (see the band Magma for an example of that in its pure form).






And try this song by The Residents. They don't usually fall in to the "atonal" category, but I think this piece qualifies in some ways.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

I honestly don't think that a lot of non-classical/jazz music is self-aware of their atonality. There are definitely many that do not think tonally (my mind instantly recalls bands like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks and the other no-wave noise rock bands), but it usually isn't based on theory; rather it is based on timbre and sound, because they focus on writing with color as opposed to notation.

Also, a lot of atonal rock artists simply don't care about titles and theory

...but i guess that is true atonality?


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## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

Prodromides said:


> Hi, Zauberberg.
> 
> Would you be interested in some recommendations on soundtrack albums?
> The amount of atonal film scores is probably greater than one might realize.
> ...


I'm ok with mentions or videos, I like to search for myself afterwards.



> Ruins is an interesting example from Japan. It overlaps with jazz to an extent, but is much more based in Zeuhl (see the band Magma for an example of that in its pure form).


Yeah, I knew Ruins, but they're a bit crazy for my tastes  But I like this a lot (from the drummer of Ruins):






The residents video was funny


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## MJongo (Aug 6, 2011)

I second The Residents recommendation. Check out _Meet the Residents_ (specifically the mono version) and _Not Available_ as well.


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## Prodromides (Mar 18, 2012)

If you like the music of Roberto Gerhard, then you might be interested in NMC's album of 4 classic British film scores (of which one was written by Gerhard):










You may wish to check out the film itself entitled "This Sporting Life", directed by Lindsay Anderson.










As some of Gerhard's music was dialed-out in the final sound mix, the composer culled some of the motifs he'd written for _This Sporting Life_ and re-fashioned them into a 1966 concert piece called "Epithalamion".


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

The music of Primus, and Les Claypool's other projects, often is atonal in a manner. Where alot of rock riffs are based on perfect 5ths, Primus's tend to operate on tritones that don't resolve to anything.


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

I said this morning that The Jesus and Mary Chain were a no-wave band when I really meant teenage jesus and the jerks

i need more tea. my apologies...

anyway, here are two examples of atonal (or seemingly little regard to tonality) rock pieces


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Pretty sure this isn't tonal... But is it *anything?* That's the big question.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

millionrainbows said:


> This gets close, although it is still tonal. I call this "pointillist rock" after Webern.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The first Gentle Giant piece reminds me of Stravinsky


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## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

I guess the selection is not too much broad 

Well, for the interested ones, there's some atonal (and experimental) electronic music by Wolfgang Voigt. Listen: http://www.kompakt.fm/releases/atonale_tanzmusik/detached
this one is good, is like mixing GAS with Gubaidulina or Xennakis: http://www.kompakt.fm/releases/rueckverzauberung_6_ep/detached
Abrasive atonal techno: 
http://www.kompakt.fm/releases/freiland_klaviermusik/detached

Changing, there's also songwriter Jandek, very depressive stuff:


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

Zauberberg said:


> and apart from some Zappa tracks...
> 
> I'm starting to like atonal music a lot, and usually I like non-classical music more than classical... so you get the logic :lol:
> 
> I leave Jazz out because I listened to some 12 tone Jazz already, and I'm profoundly not intenrested in Jazz as a whole, really.


Try this out:


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## oogabooha (Nov 22, 2011)

millionrainbows said:


> Try this out:
> 
> View attachment 12184


wouldn't that just be considered noise music, or close to musique concrete? I really enjoy that album, but the approach to tonality (or atonality, which is more of just a new approach at tonality) is minimal, if even there at all


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## millionrainbows (Jun 23, 2012)

oogabooha said:


> wouldn't that just be considered noise music, or close to musique concrete? I really enjoy that album, but the approach to tonality (or atonality, which is more of just a new approach at tonality) is minimal, if even there at all


Yes, I agree: it's closer to being Xenakis, musique concréte, or electronic music.

However, that's the price one pays for using the term "atonal." I don't hear any "tones" or "tonal center," do you?:lol::devil:


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## Crudblud (Dec 29, 2011)

There's this:






Finally found it on youtube. A Japanese woman by the name of Jon who plays a pump organ, occasionally backed up on banjo, all of her songs are about dogs, apparently. She also wears a large dog costume while playing.


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## BurningDesire (Jul 15, 2012)

Crudblud said:


> There's this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love that John Zorn helps so many unique artists get their stuff out there to be heard. Beautifully simple music.


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## Mesa (Mar 2, 2012)

Well sort of in G, but degenerates considerably:





Turn it down first, i'm not responsible for any bloody ears.

Or turn it up like a boss.


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## Zauberberg (Feb 21, 2012)

I was a big fan of Autechre back in the day  I think "Melve" (from LP5) qualifies better.


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## tornike (Jun 8, 2014)

Zauberberg said:


> and apart from some Zappa tracks...
> 
> I'm starting to like atonal music a lot, and usually I like non-classical music more than classical... so you get the logic :lol:
> 
> I leave Jazz out because I listened to some 12 tone Jazz already, and I'm profoundly not intenrested in Jazz as a whole, really.


Hello, try Animal Collective, actually this album






Also, David Bowie has some great atonal(or semi-atonal) piano solos.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Zauberberg said:


> and apart from some Zappa tracks...
> 
> I'm starting to like atonal music a lot, and usually I like non-classical music more than classical... so you get the logic :lol:
> 
> I leave Jazz out because I listened to some 12 tone Jazz already, and I'm profoundly not intenrested in Jazz as a whole, really.


This is right in my bailiwick!

There are plenty of bands and artists that use plenty of atonality in their music. The entire 'Rock in Opposition' sub-genre of progressive music is loaded with great bands. Also, the somewhat overlapping genre of avant-prog is full of artists.

Maybe not all atonal, dissonant for sure.

Here's a partial list:

The Thinking Plague (USA)
Henry Cow (England)
Universe Zero (Belgium)
Motor Totemist Guild, and the related, U Totem and The 5 UU's (USA)
Present (Belgium)
Charming Hostess (USA)
AHVAK (USA)
AKSAK MABOUL (Belgium)
ÉTRON FOU LELOUBLAN (France)
Ensemble Nimbus (Sweden)
Far Corner (USA)
Gargantua (Poland)
Guapo (UK)
Miriodor (Canada)
Pissuk Rachav (Israel)
THE SOCIETÀ ANONIMA DECOSTRUZIONISMI ORGANICI (Italy)
This Heat (UK)
Zevious (USA)
Xypressen (Japan)

Quite a few of he more mainstream prog bands also used some atonality, as with the already mentioned Gentle Giant and King Crimson.


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## science (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't know Sonic Youth very well and I'm not sure whether they count as "outside of" anything, but it seems to me that they would have some atonal music. Am I totally wrong about that?


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

I did like some atonal bands like alger hiss, lee miller, band of susans, live skull


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

I posted this in a thread I created a while ago on the sophistication of some forms of metal.

This is instrumental technical-metal composed using 12 tone techniques.

Very complex, with a very high level of musicianship.

The band is called Blotted Science.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

science said:


> I don't know Sonic Youth very well and I'm not sure whether they count as "outside of" anything, but it seems to me that they would have some atonal music. Am I totally wrong about that?


I can't possibly comprehend Sonic Youth having atonal music. If, however, we saying that any band with a noise section here and there wrote atonal music, then sure, there's TONS out there.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

it must be said that even in a tonal context a lot of rock solos are freely atonal.
Listen to Lou Reed at 0:56 on I heard her call my name





and a lot of death metal bands have that kind of solos that sounds like atonal free jazz: slayer, morbid angel, and stuff like that.
Angel of Death at 3:36


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Simon Moon said:


> This is right in my bailiwick!
> 
> There are plenty of bands and artists that use plenty of atonality in their music. The entire 'Rock in Opposition' sub-genre of progressive music is loaded with great bands. Also, the somewhat overlapping genre of avant-prog is full of artists.
> 
> ...


An impressive list of bands there, and, yes, the music of these groups is often "atonal". I would add the Art Bears and Half Japanese to the mix. Earlier in this thread someone named DNA, which was actually my first thought when I read the title of the thread. My vinyl copy of DNA's only album is a work I play for those who think they've heard everything. They usually say they've never heard that.

Of course Faust and Einstürzende Neubauten contribute much that is atonal in nature. But Nurse With Wound probably wins the bar.

Someone also earlier mentioned Lou Reed's _Metal Machine Music_, which I also have on LP. I agree that it is more _musique concrete_ than "atonal" in the sense of utilizing actual notes from a scale.

Some pieces by Lydia Lunch may qualify as atonal, though Lydia tends to sing a monotone -- that is, one note throughout a piece. Still, her backup band is all over the place, scale wise.


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

SONNET CLV said:


> An impressive list of bands there, and, yes, the music of these groups is often "atonal". I would add the Art Bears and Half Japanese to the mix. Earlier in this thread someone named DNA, which was actually my first thought when I read the title of the thread. My vinyl copy of DNA's only album is a work I play for those who think they've heard everything. They usually say they've never heard that.
> 
> Of course Faust and Einstürzende Neubauten contribute much that is atonal in nature. But Nurse With Wound probably wins the bar.
> 
> ...


Thanks!

And nice additions to the list.

What happened to the OP, though?


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

*Altered States: 'DWD' from the album, 'MOSAIC'*


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## 38157 (Jul 4, 2014)

Some of Mr. Bungle's work was atonal (especially when Trevor Dunn had a hand in its composition). For example, "Phlegmatics" and "Platypus" (I think in the latter, there are islands of more conventional tonality, but the aesthetic does not point towards C major). 
I also believe some metal bands are interested in serialism (Blotted Science I think may be one of them), but I don't often listen to metal, so I can't be very specific.


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## Cosmos (Jun 28, 2013)

The first that pops to mind


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

http://www.mocm.ca/Music/Title.aspx?TitleId=317971
I've mentioned Beverly Copeland in "the non-classical i'm currently listening": the piece Swords of Gold sounds like a curious mix of a folk song and a modern lieder, something like late Scriabin, I don't know.


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## SONNET CLV (May 31, 2014)

Just a thought. What is that stuff the devil plays in the Charlie Daniels Band's "Devil Went Down to Georgia" song? Is that atonal, or microtonal? In either case, I always tended to prefer the devil's music to what that arrogant Johnny character plays in the song. If I were the judge, the devil would have won and Johnny would be doin' hot time 'bout now -- but the music down there would be interesting. Atonal or microtonal or something -- but not that hillbilly ***** that Johnny plays.


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## Onionon (Oct 19, 2014)

Their is a modern artist/composer called Elushis who is being argued over whether he makes atonal or serialism styles of music and the idealogoy that the creation,thought and true intention are what ultimately matter within the context of all musical pieces. Just google lol


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## Kiwi (Dec 9, 2014)

Have you listened to MiRthkon at all? They're pretty atonal but still cohesive as a band. Pretty proggy stuff but give em a try.


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

I always thought of Phish and Sonic Youth as being atonal but haven't heard enough of those to adjudicate accordingly.


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## Morimur (Jan 23, 2014)

Don't look for atonal in rock music. Most of these 'musicians' are delusional and beat their one or two creative ideas to death. Modern classical and Japanese traditional music will satisfy your craving.


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## norman bates (Aug 18, 2010)

albertfallickwang said:


> I always thought of Phish and Sonic Youth as being atonal but haven't heard enough of those to adjudicate accordingly.


Sonic youth is possible sometimes; Phish usually play very melodic pieces, they could have their jazzy moments but atonal? I don't know a lot of their stuff (especially considering their live music) but at least of their early albums I don't remember any trace of atonality.


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## EdwardBast (Nov 25, 2013)

Try this. Not atonal. Free tonality, polytonality, very complex rhythmic interplay. Might do the trick.

Henry Cow, "Amygdala:"


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## Albert7 (Nov 16, 2014)

norman bates said:


> Sonic youth is possible sometimes; Phish usually play very melodic pieces, they could have their jazzy moments but atonal? I don't know a lot of their stuff (especially considering their live music) but at least of their early albums I don't remember any trace of atonality.


I was thinking specifically of Phish vacuum cleaner solo which was notorious:


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## MagneticGhost (Apr 7, 2013)

Check out late Scott Walker - 
The Drift and Tilt are good albums to try out. It's not all atonal but there are some songs that seem to lack any tonal centre. And the rest are quite interesting and enjoyable too.

Sample from The Drift

Another Sample


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## Simon Moon (Oct 10, 2013)

Kiwi said:


> Have you listened to MiRthkon at all? They're pretty atonal but still cohesive as a band. Pretty proggy stuff but give em a try.


I love MiRthkon. I've seen the live a couple of times.

They definitely fit in with the avant-prog bands from my post on page 2 of this thread.

They describe themselves as tweaked-out 'atonal jazz thrash'.


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## deprofundis (Apr 25, 2014)

Of cabbage and Kings , brutal noise -rock band from he 80'' fronted by swans own algis kysis.If you like atonal stuff outside classic.


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