# Your Favorite 20th/21st Century Composers



## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Again, this thread is inspired by another thread... or actually two: the thread on Richard Strauss in which several of us defined what we admired about this composer, and the thread on favorite living composers. What I am after is not simply a list of 3 or 5 or 10 favorite composers... but rather your favorite (not necessarily the "best" or who you think is the "best") but your favorite composer in each of the following musical genre:

*1. Opera

2. Choral Music

3. Lieder/Song

4. Symphonic

5. Concerto

6. Chamber Music

7. Solo Instrumental

8. Another genre of your choice*

:devil:


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

OPERA: Strauss wrote the greatest series of opera in the 20th century, but Bluebeard is probably my favorite opera of the 20th century. Puccini is like Justin Bieber to Strauss's Beatles (sorry Puccini fans) Wozzeck gets a nod and Britten has a great series of operas which don't quite make the cut to the top of the list.

Choral - Schoenberg wrote some great choral pieces. Orff again takes the McDonalds prize 

Lieder/Song - Has to be Mahler....discussion over (Das Lied von der Erde is the great song cycle of ALL TIME)....

Symphonic - Mahler followed by Shostakovich

Concerto - Elgar's Cello Concerto is my favorite written in the 20th Century, but Bartok's 3 piano concertos and amazing second violin concerto allow him to win this. Sibelius's violin concerto is amazing too, but that was like 1902 and I ultimately think of it as a late 19th Century concerto.

Chamber Music - Not the strongest century for this genre, but Reich's large chamber ensemble works are amongst my favorites. Shostakovich's string quartets as well as Bartok's are great, but I would actually choose Reich here in some ways for sheer originality. Hindemith is on a second tier here but excellent as well. Arnold's string Quartets are worth listening to.

Solo Instrumental - aka Piano......Gotta be Debussy and Ravel

Ballet Music - Stravinsky takes SECOND tier to Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe which folks...is the greatest ballet score ever written in terms of pure musical genius.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

1. Opera: Puccini (Honorable mention to Gian Carlo Meniotti)

2. Choral Music: Tough category... I will pick Healy Willan

3. Lieder/Song: George Gershwin

4. Symphonic: Gustav Mahler (H.M. to Charles Ives)

5. Chamber Music: Maurice Ravel (H.M. to Shostakovich)

6. Solo Instrumental: Claude Debussy (H.M. to Jehan Alain)

7. Another genre of your choice - I choose Andre Mathieu for "concertos", with an H.M. to John T. Williams for "film music")


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## clavichorder (May 2, 2011)

Opera: know nothing about it

Choral Music: do Mahler symphonies with a chorus count?

Lieder/Song: Mahler and Medtner

Symphonic: Mahler, Shostakovich, Nielsen, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, Britten for most major that I've heard. 

Chamber Music: Hindemith(I like the wind quintet), Stravinsky(Soldier's tale), but I know little else.

Solo Instrumental: Medtner piano works, Prokofiev sonatas, Debussy, Ravel, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff. 

Popular: Beatles


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## DavidMahler (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh for popular music. 

Beatles take it all the way for the ability to be extremely successful, but artistically viable. 

On a personal level, I am 100% convinced that Elliott Smith improved drastically upon what the Beatles started and he would be my pick as the greatest songwriter not only of the 20th century but potentially of all time, alongside Gershwin, Ellington, Wolf, Brahms, Schumann and Schubert. Not trolling


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

*1. Opera*
- Berg
- Puccini
- Schoenberg
- Richard Meale (who I think was one of the finest Australian composers of the c20th - esp. significant are his _Voss_ and _Mer de Glace_)

*2. Choral Music*
- No particular preference here, anything from c20th goes with me here, except maybe aspects of "holy minimalism" which I'm beginning to tire of after it's been rehashed for like 30+ years.

*3. Lieder/Song*
- I like the Americans - eg. Ives, Gershwin, Bernstein, Barber, Rorem, etc.
- Britten & probably other UK, eg. Vaughan Williams 
- Piazzolla
- Lutoslawski
- Zemlinsky, R. Strauss

*4. Symphonic*
- Shostakovich, Prokofiev
- Ives, Hovhaness, Bernstein
- Lutoslawski, Szymanowski

*5. Concerto* - probably too many to mention, but -
- 20th. cent. Viennese School
- Hindemith
- Rozsa
- Basically any guitar concerto, eg. Rodrigo, Villa-Lobos, Castelnuovo-Tedesco
- Dutilleux, Lutoslawski, Shostakovich, Myaskovsky - cello
- Peter Sculthorpe, Margaret Sutherland - to put in some Aussies!
- Tippett
- Carter

*6. Chamber Music* - again, quite a lot, but here are some that come straight to mind -
- Ives, Carter, USA Minimalists, Bernard Herrmann
- Berg
- Janacek
- Shostakovich, Schnittke
- Messiaen
- Hindemith
- Tippett, Walton, Elgar
- Xenakis
- Piazzolla
- Richard Meale, Matthew Hindson (to mention two Aussies)

*7. Solo Instrumental *- again, here's a selection -
- Boulez
- Berg
- Xenakis
- Castelnuovo-Tedesco
- K.A. Hartmann
- Peter Sculthorpe, Ross Edwards (two Aussies, in terms of their guitar works)
- Scelsi
- Messiaen
- Widor, Langlais, Alain - organ
- Bartok
- Ives, Carter, Barber, Sessions, Griffes, Copland - piano sonatas

*8. Another genre of your choice* - I put in 3 for the price of 1 here!

- *Electronic/electro-acoustic/music with amplification, etc.* - Varese, Xenakis, Saariaho, Barry Conyngham, Roger Dean (two Aussies)

*- Musicals *- Kander/Ebb (_Cabaret_), Bernstein/Sondheim (_West Side Story_)

*- Operetta *- Lehar, jazz operetta - Abraham, Stolz, Benatzky, Piazzolla (_Maria de Buenos Aires_)


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

*1. Opera*- Richard Strauss is the clear choice. Puccini and Britten are the only possible contenders... and IMO... not too close... much as I love Puccini. Strauss has two harrowing, expressionist masterpieces: _Salome_ and _Elektra_, the magnificent _Der Rosenkavalier_, which builds upon the operatic traditions of Mozart and Johann Strauss... and then there are a handful of further operas nearly equal to these: _Ariadne auf Naxos, Arabella, Die Frau ohne Schatten, Daphne_, etc...

*2. Choral Music*- Ultimately, I would have to go with Benjamin Britten. I love Rachmaninoff's _Vespers_, John Taverner's _Shunya_, Barber's _Agnus Dei_, John Adams' _Harmonium_, and several other marvelous choral works including those by Arvo Part, Philip Glass, Osvaldo Golijov, and Herbert Howells, but Britten has such a wealth of wonderful choral music that straddles the line between traditional and Modernist... the central work being the great _War Requiem_.

*3. Lieder/Song*- I have to go with Richard Strauss again. The three great song cycles of this period, IMO, are Mahler's The Song of the earth, Strauss' Four Last Songs, and Peter Lieberson's Neruda Songs. All three are truly heart-wrenching. Strauss, however, has such a wealth of songs beyond this cycle that are truly brilliant that I must go with him.

*4. Symphonic*- Let's see... we have Mahler's final 5 symphonies vs Sibelius, Nielsen, Shostakovitch, Prokofiev, etc...I end up going with Mahler.

*5. Concerto*- There's Ravel's exquisite _Piano Concerto_, Shosty's _Cello Concerto_, Henri Dutilleux's brilliant efforts, and that of Bartok. In the end I have to go with Rachmaninoff.

*6. Chamber Music*- I'll go with the odd choice of Toru Takemitsu. Takemitsu simply had an absolutely exquisite sensitivity to orchestration and orchestral color... merging the Impressionism of Debussy and Ravel with the traditions of Japanese music. The runners up: Shostakovitch for his string quartets, Koechlin, and Debussy.

*7. Solo Instrumental*- I have to go with Debussy. His Images pour piano, Estampes, Children's Corner, Préludes, Études, etc... are among the most exquisite... and innovative compositions of the period. The possible runner's up include Shostakovitch (his Preludes and Fugues) and Charles Koechlin (Les Chants de Nectaire).

*8. Another genre of your choice*- Ballet- Stravinsky (obviously... with Prokofiev not far behind).


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## elgar's ghost (Aug 8, 2010)

1. Opera - Britten, Puccini and Janacek.
2. Choral - not sure.
3. Lieder/song - Shostakovich, Mahler. 
4. Symphonic - Shostakovich, Mahler and Simpson.
5. Concerto - Schnittke.
6. Chamber - Shostakovich, Poulenc, Bartok and Hindemith.
7. Solo Instrumental - Ravel, Debussy and (late) Skryabin.
8. Another genre - 'best all-rounder' - Bernstein the composer for having one foot in both the concert hall and Broadway, also for being a conductor, pianist, lecturer, showman etc.

Sorry I can't narrow it down any further.


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## tdc (Jan 17, 2011)

*1. Opera -* Bartok is my guy as Bluebeard's Castle is among my favorite works of all time, however I must acknowledge R Strauss is no slouch here, and possibly the 'greatest' in the 20th century in this area.
*2. Choral - *Penderecki. His St. Luke Passion is my favorite choral work of the 20th century.
*3. Lieder/ Song -* Probably Mahler, but must admit this isn't my area of expertise. Again R Strauss seems very good here too.
*4. Symphonic -* Mahler takes it for me followed closely by Sibelius.
*5. Concerto -* Ravel (PC in G / PC for left hand) followed by Bartok. 
*6. Chamber -* Ravel's SQ is probably my favorite 20th century chamber work, but Bartok has many great SQ's, in the end Bartok edges out Ravel here.
*7. Solo Instrumental -* Ravel, followed closely by Joaquin Rodrigo and Debussy.
*8. Ballet -* Ravel. I saw Daphne and Chloe performed this year it was an amazing experience - and its currently my favorite ballet of all time.


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## HarpsichordConcerto (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't want to think too much, so I'll list the most obvious ones to me.

1. Opera - Richard Strauss by a clear easy lead. I don't see any greater opera composer after him since.

4. Symphonic - Mahler

8. Ballet - Prokofiev


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## pjang23 (Oct 8, 2009)

itywltmt said:


> 7. Another genre of your choice - I choose Andre Mathieu for "concertos"


Cheers, fellow Canadian :cheers:


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## schigolch (Jun 26, 2011)

*1. Opera*- Alban Berg

*2. Choral Music*- Benjamin Britten

*3. Lieder/Song*- Reynaldo Hahn

*4. Symphonic*- Olivier Messiaen

*5. Concerto*- Witold Lutoslawski

*6. Chamber Music*- Brian Ferneyhough

*7. Solo Instrumental*- Claude Debussy

*8. Another genre of your choice*- Kaija Saariaho


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## hespdelk (Mar 19, 2011)

*1. Opera-* Puccini and Strauss equally, these two stand pretty far ahead of the rest. Honourable mention to Janecek, Schreker and for the sake of originality, Franco Alfano whose own work apart from the controversial Turandot completion is highly underrated - these are operas to be _seen_ though rather than to be heard apart - and I don't say that as a criticism, I feel the same about many of Strauss' operas (Ariadne, Salome). Of more recent work I'm intrigued by excerpts I've heard of Saariaho's L'amour de loin, but have not yet heard it whole. Aulis Sallinen is another Finn whose operas should be better known.

*2. Choral Music-* Penderecki, Schnittke, Ligeti, Part

*3. Lieder/Song-* Strauss by far, though I have a soft spot for Lutoslawski's cycle

*4. Symphonic-* Too many in this field for me to pick an overall favourite.. no one really stands out as dominant.. I'll list a few and will learn to live with the small armada of omissions (applies to the other categories as well really)... in no particular order.. Shostakovich, Zemlinsky, Schnittke, Scelsi, Strauss, Respighi, Debussy, Sibelius... hmm.. as suspected, not satisfied with my list, but to make it longer is to make it meaningless.. I find the 21st century portion a bit sparse so I'll nominate Giacomo Cataldo who I discovered recently, though its probably too soon to make such pronouncements. Hence part of the problem, in 2011 the most renowned living composers will still be those who had significant careers in the 20th century.. which brings me back to Penderecki... 

*5. Concerto-* Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich

*6. Chamber Music-* Shostakovich (the quartets are one of the major cycles in the genre of any century)

*7. Solo Instrumental-* Debussy, Bartok, Medtner

*8. Another genre of your choice- * Ballet? Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet, and Stravinksy's three (Petrushka, Rite, Firebird)

A final musing, it has always appeared to me that the 20th century really saw the Russian school come into its own after its rapid development in the 19th.


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## itywltmt (May 29, 2011)

Healy Willan is also Canadian (if only by adoption...)


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## Olias (Nov 18, 2010)

1. Opera- Not really qualified to say. I'm a Mozart and Bel Canto guy.

2. Choral Music- Bernstein (WSS, Mass, Chichester)

3. Lieder/Song- Copland (Old American Songs, Poems of Emily D.)

4. Symphonic- Shostakovich

5. Concerto- Copland, Prokofiev, and Higdon

6. Chamber Music- Shostakovich (especially the SQ)

7. Solo Instrumental- Debussy

8. Another genre of your choice- Ballet music of Copland and Bernstein


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> [...]
> *1. Opera
> 
> 2. Choral Music
> ...


1. No tolerable operas after Verdi

2. Nothing very good after Josquin

3. R. Strauss

4. Mahler (2nd Sibelius, 3rd Nielsen)

5. Bartók (2nd Sibelius)

6. Bartók

7. Bartok (2nd Ives)

8. (Orchestral, not symphony) Bartók (2nd Stravinsky)


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## SuperTonic (Jun 3, 2010)

1. Opera - Not really qualified to have an opinion, but if I had to choose I'd probably pick R. Straus.

2. Choral - Again, I'm not sure I know enough modern choral music to have an expert opinion, but I'll throw a few spefic pieces out there that I enjoy - Orff (Carmina), Penderecki (Polish Requiem), Krenek (Lamentatio), Schoenberg (Survivor from Warsaw)

3. Lieder - R. Straus, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern

4. Symphonic - Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius, Egon Wellesz (Mahler technically qualifies but I really associate him more with the 19th century)

5. Concerto - Barber, Bartok, Elgar, Rachmaninoff, Schnittke

6. Chamber music - Bartok, Shostakovich, Ravel, Debussy, Stravinsky, Hindemith

7. Solo instrumental - Debussy, Ravel

8. other - Ballet music - Stravisnky, Prokofiev
String orchestra - Barber (Adagio), Elgar (Introduction and Allegro), Lutoslawski (Musique Funebre)


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## Klavierspieler (Jul 16, 2011)

Opera - BLAH!!

Choral Music - I know nothing.

Lieder/Song - Strauss, Sibelius

Symphonic - Vaughan Williams, Sibelius

Concerto - Walton, Vaughan Williams

Chamber Music - Janacek

Solo Instrumental - Bartok

String Orchestra - Vaughan Williams


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2011)

SuperTonic said:


> 1. Opera - Not really qualified to have an opinion....
> 
> 2. Choral - Again, I'm not sure I know enough modern choral music to have an expert opinion


A most becoming modesty, SuperTonic, and most refreshing to come to after the confidence, even über-confidence of your predecessors. Of course, anyone is qualified to have favorites, but I would think that even to have favorites, one should have experience of many things. Strauss may be many people's pick for 20th century opera, but how can you know he's your favorite unless you know several other 20th century operas? Know beyond a handful of youtube clips, too! Janáček's been mentioned a couple of times. He was an opera composer, too, in the same sense that Wagner and Puccini and Verdi were opera composers. Dvořák, who wrote two operas in the twentieth century, thought of himself as an opera composer.

Many twentieth composers wrote operas. Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Kabelevsky. Even a few non-Russians did, too. Schoenberg, Berg, Zimmermann (B.A.), Kutavičius, Reimann, Ligeti, Cage, Lachenmann, Nørgård, Maderna, Czernowin, Saariaho, Furrer, Truax, Shields, Ashley, Roussel, Poulenc, Parra, Azguime. (There are many more, of course. I only put down a few off the top of my head. I do have other things to do, really!)

Of course, once one has a large selection to chose from, one is more and more reluctant to chose a favorite. That's been true for me, anyway. When I was a kid, Rachmaninoff was my favorite composer. That was then I knew maybe a half a dozen other composers, and none of them as well as I knew Rachmaninoff. Having a favorite was easy then. Later it was a toss-up between Tchaikovsky and Beethoven. And not too long after that, it was impossible.



SuperTonic said:


> 4. Symphonic - Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius, Egon Wellesz (Mahler technically qualifies but I really associate him more with the 19th century)


Indeed, I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned Saint-Saëns or Dvořák, two other 19th century composers whose careers went into the 20th century.

In fact, the picture that's emerged so far is that the twentieth century was by and large a continuation of the 19th and consisted to a great extent of people whose careers started in the 19th century and of people who wrote extensions of 19th century music. That's partly owing to the list of genres in the OP, which are not designations of particularly 20th century categories but of categories familiar in the 19th and earlier.

Anyway, kudos to SuperTonic. And an invitation to all to explore the twentieth century past the 19th century categories!!


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## Ukko (Jun 4, 2010)

some guy said:


> [...]
> Anyway, kudos to SuperTonic. And an invitation to all to explore the twentieth century past the 19th century categories!!


***** [Bronx cheer]


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## Conor71 (Feb 19, 2009)

1. Opera - Puccini

2. Choral Music - Part

3. Lieder/Song - Strauss (R)

4. Symphonic - Shostakovich

5. Concerto - Prokofiev

6. Chamber Music - Shostakovich

7. Solo Instrumental - Shostakovich

8. Film Music - John Williams


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

As usual, someguy has to prove his superior knowledge and experience in listening to anything at all related to Modern or Contemporary music. Most of us, by his judgment, are unqualified to offer an opinion of a favorite 20th century opera or choral work or symphony... and the fact that many have selected a composer for a given genre who is closer to the tradition of 19th century music than to the avant garde work of the last 20 years is clear proof that: 1. We're all stuck in the 19th century mentality and 2. The OP and the genres themselves are clearly and fatally flawed. It can't possibly be that: A. More people like Mahler or Strauss than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen... B. More people still like Mahler and Strauss in spite of having listened to Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen... C. Mahler and Strauss are simply better than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen.?

In fact, the picture that's emerged so far is that the twentieth century was by and large a continuation of the 19th and consisted to a great extent of people whose careers started in the 19th century and of people who wrote extensions of 19th century music. That's partly owing to the list of genres in the OP, which are not designations of particularly 20th century categories but of categories familiar in the 19th and earlier.

Really?

*1. Opera-*
















*2. Choral-*


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

*3. Lieder/Song-*
















*4. Symphonic-*


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

*5. Concerto-*
















*6. Chamber Music-*


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

*7. Solo Instrumental -*
















Yep... clearly all these old 19th century forms are all washed up and no loner have any relevance... unlike a good improvisation on an empty raisin box.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2011)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> As usual, someguy has to prove his superior knowledge and experience in listening to anything at all related to Modern or Contemporary music.


I don't really have to. You on the other hand. Twenty-one clips spanning four posts? Now that sounds like someone has something to prove!!:lol:



StlukesguildOhio said:


> Most of us, by his judgment, are unqualified to offer an opinion of a favorite 20th century opera or choral work or symphony...


I think if it were possible for you to read my posts without blinders (or any posts, actually--I've seen you pull that same routine on others), you would have seen that what I said to SuperTonic was exactly the opposite of this.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> 1. We're *all* stuck in the 19th century mentality


Many.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> 2. The OP and the genres themselves are clearly and fatally flawed.


The OP is selective and hence incomplete. And takes no account of genres new to the twentieth century.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> A. More people like Mahler or Strauss than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen...


Relevance? More people like Justin Bieber than like Mahler or Strauss.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> B. More people still like Mahler and Strauss in spite of having listened to Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen...


Not at all surprising. Especially if one listens to Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen expecting or wanting more Mahler and Strauss.



StlukesguildOhio said:


> C. Mahler and Strauss are simply better than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen.?


The least likely of many possible conclusions.


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## Philip (Mar 22, 2011)

Props to *StlukesguildOhio* for utilizing the Youtube option, otherwise i'd be too damn lazy to look up anything unfamiliar. :tiphat:


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## starthrower (Dec 11, 2010)

To hell with all of those embedded YouTube things. I'm using an old computer and that stuff is getting me all jammed up!

Anyway, You go some guy!


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

starthrower said:


> To hell with all of those embedded YouTube things. I'm using an old computer and that stuff is getting me all jammed up!


I agree, I don't like them, I just embed youtube clips in the text. It's easy as. I've invented a word for this practice, in the context of TC, "youtubing."

I don't use old computers, I use average one, but said "youtubing" holds me up a few more seconds for the page to load than if it had none of those damned things, and you know how irritable I am as it is :lol: ...


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

some guy said:


> ...
> The OP is selective and hence incomplete. And takes no account of genres new to the twentieth century.
> 
> ...


Well, electronic music probably should have been there as a separate category. Given it's emergence post-1945, it should have a category in it's own right, not be subsumed in "other." I'd probably say the same for stage musicals (unless that can be included in the "opera" category?), film scores and multimedia/performance/instillations with strong musical element. But let's face it, not many people on TC are very much interested in these. Those that are tend not to talk about it anyway. One person who did, Argus, is no longer around, it seems.

But by the same token, even though composers today don't always or even often call things by their conventional names - eg. concertos, symphonies, string quartets, etc. - they are still composing these things, but not calling them that. It's been going on for like half a century at least. Look at Dutilleux's cello concerto which in French translates to _A Whole Remote World_, and his violin concerto which is called _A Tree of Dreams_. But although they're not called that, they are basically concertos, so if you like these you can list these under the concerto genre/area in stluke's categories.

I put three extra things in the "other" category and the OP has been fine with that, so there's no harm in you adding your own areas if you want, some guy. No need to be pedantic here, just participate. Everyone is free to do that, I think the OP was only meant as a kind of guide and mindful of what most of us here tend to listen to on a regular basis - which is in the more conventional forms/genres. I don't see anything wrong with that, although I go to a fair share of new music recitals/concerts which do have electronic and multimedia elements, or are wholly that. But I don't talk about it much as people around here are not interested that much, or at worst, (a small minority) are liable to ridicule it, which really makes me bitter...


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## regressivetransphobe (May 16, 2011)

Oh god a good thread is turning into another one of "these" threads.


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

1. Opera - Strauss, Berg and Janacek.

2. Choral music - Janacek (Glagolitic Mass), Stravinsky

3. Songs - Richard Strauss, Ravel.

4. Symphonic - Sibelius' 7th, Ives' 4th, Berg's op.3, Debussy's Jeux.

5. Concerto - Berg's violin concerto.

6. Chamber music - Shostakovich, Bartok.

7. Solo Instrumental - Messiaen.

8. Other genres - Stravinsky's ballets.


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

^^Nice list, some of my own favourites there, I have many from the 20th century. But Berg's Op. 3 is his (first) string quartet. It is also one of my favourites. Listing that in the symphonic category, did you mean that or something else?...


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

To hell with all of those embedded YouTube things. I'm using an old computer and that stuff is getting me all jammed up!

Hmmm... isn't there a degree of irony involved in the champion of modernism stuck on outdated technology?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

Dup..............


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## Sid James (Feb 7, 2009)

StlukesguildOhio said:


> To hell with all of those embedded YouTube things. I'm using an old computer and that stuff is getting me all jammed up!
> 
> Hmmm... isn't there a degree of irony involved in the champion of modernism stuck on outdated technology?


As I said in my reply to him, it's not only old computers that the practice of youtubing stuffs around. I use newer computers, but it still causes a delay. Sometimes it can freeze the screen, either temporarily or permanently, so I have to reboot. In other words it's a pain in the backside. The better way,imo, is to just put things in words. Or if you do want to put youtube clips up, don't put half a dozen, maybe one or two, or embed them in text, not in those box things. I think people do it to make them more visible on the screen, saying "here's my point with a ten tonne crayon, you can't miss this." Like a huge billboard or something. It's steroidal, & people around here know I hate things on steroids ...


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## pollux (Nov 11, 2011)

Sid James said:


> But Berg's Op. 3 is his (first) string quartet. It is also one of my favourites. Listing that in the symphonic category, did you mean that or something else?...


Excuse me, I meant the Three Pieces for Orchestra Op. 6. Debussy's Jeux is a ballet so I put it at the wrong place. I should also add to my list Strauss' Metamorphosen and Nino Rota and Bernard Herrman as film music composers.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I don't really have to. You on the other hand. Twenty-one clips spanning four posts? Now that sounds like someone has something to prove!!

Perhaps I wished to illustrate the fact that the traditional music forms are not quite as dead in the 20th century as you would seem to infer. Are there new forms? certainly. New instruments? Of course. This doesn't seem to have resulted in the death of the symphony or choral work or chamber music, however.

_SLG (quoted)Most of us, by his judgment, are unqualified to offer an opinion of a favorite 20th century opera or choral work or symphony..._

I think if it were possible for you to read my posts without blinders (or any posts, actually--I've seen you pull that same routine on others), you would have seen that what I said to SuperTonic was exactly the opposite of this.

I am guessing that most of us can read the intentions in your posts quite well. It simply comes down to: the majority prefer music different than yourself... thus the majority must be unqualified to recognize good music. This post isn't even about who is "better" or "worse". I plainly asked for members to simply suggest who were their "favorites" in a series of genre. But clearly we are not qualified to select "favorites" because they don't align with the stuff you like.

_SLG (quote) 1. We're all stuck in the 19th century mentality_

Many.

And perhaps you are stuck in a pretentious mentality of imagining you know how to listen to music so much better than the rest of us mere mortals.

_SLG (quote)-Originally Posted by StlukesguildOhio _

2. The OP and the genres themselves are clearly and fatally flawed.
The OP is selective and hence incomplete. And takes no account of genres new to the twentieth century.

Are you just feigning ignorance here? What poll could possibly be complete? Should I have included every possible musical form of the last 100+ years... or just the ones you listen to?

_SLG (quote)- A. More people like Mahler or Strauss than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen..._

Relevance? More people like Justin Bieber than like Mahler or Strauss.

The relevance is to the poll. If more people like Strauss than Xenakis then I would assume more people would choose Strauss than Xenakis. This has nothing to do with who is better or worse (although in the long run it just might).

_SLG (quote)-B. More people still like Mahler and Strauss in spite of having listened to Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen..._

Not at all surprising. Especially if one listens to Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen expecting or wanting more Mahler and Strauss.

Ah! Great Master! If only we could all sit at your knees and learn the from your great wisdom as to the proper means of listening to music.

_SLG (quote)C. Mahler and Strauss are simply better than Xenakis, Boulez, and Stockhausen.?_

The least likely of many possible conclusions.

The "least likely"... or the least likely to suit your purposes and preferences?


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

As I said in my reply to him, it's not only old computers that the practice of youtubing stuffs around. I use newer computers, but it still causes a delay. Sometimes it can freeze the screen, either temporarily or permanently, so I have to reboot. In other words it's a pain in the backside.

I've never had any problem loading such. Of course it also depends upon the speed of your internet connection, etc... Personally, as visual artist, I have long used images to illustrate the points I have made in writing. In many instances, one cannot assume that the reader is aware of a given painting (when speaking of art) or a given work of music, when citing examples of music. I have appreciated any number of posts including examples of music taken from YouTube which have led me to a further exploration of a given composer or work. If I already know the work or I'm not interested... I simply skip over the link.


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## StlukesguildOhio (Dec 25, 2006)

I thought about adding film music... but didn't really see it as an independent musical genre. By this I mean most film music falls under the rubric of "symphonic" or "chamber" etc... but then this is why I added the option of "Other Genres" in case someone were to wish to add ballet or jazz or blues or rock or electronic or whatever.


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## Vaneyes (May 11, 2010)

1. Opera - Puccini 
2. Choral - Britten
3. Lieder/song - Mahler. 
4. Symphonic - Mahler 
5. Concerto - Poulenc (for 2 pianos)
6. Chamber - Shostakovich
7. Solo Instrumental - Debussy 
8. World Music - Piazzolla


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## unpocoscherzando (Sep 24, 2011)

1. Opera - E. Granados

2. Choral Music - J. Tavener

3. Lieder/Song - J. Rodrigo

4. Symphonic - J. Sibelius

5. Concerto - J. Rodrigo

6. Chamber Music - A. Honegger

7. Solo Instrumental - E. Granados, J. Sibelius

8. Another genre of your choice - Orchestral music - E. Grieg


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## pluhagr (Jan 2, 2012)

This is such a wonderful thread!

1. Opera- Philip Glass

2. Choral Music- Henryk Gorecki

3. Lieder/Song- Nico Muhly

4. Symphonic- John Corigliano or Charles Ives

5. Concerto- Bela Bartok

6. Chamber Music- Steve Reich or Bela Bartok

7. Solo Instrumental- Debussy

8. Film Music- Thomas Newman


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## violadude (May 2, 2011)

pluhagr said:


> This is such a wonderful thread!
> 
> 1. Opera- Philip Glass
> 
> ...


Pluhagr, I am pleasantly surprised to see Nico Muhly mentioned on this thread. I've only heard his CD "Speaks Volumes" and I thought it was wonderful.


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