# Mahler 9 : Give Me Your Best Half Dozen



## starthrower

I have been listeing to Berstein's 60s NYP, and Tennstedt's recording. I wanna listen to more.

Give me your top six Mahler 9ths. If you can, I'd like three modern recordings (90s or newer) and three from any other decade. Thanks!


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## bz3

Karajan, Boulez, Bernstein Sony, Gielen, Barbirolli, Giulini. Sorry, only one modern one. The only other newish one I know is Tilson Thomas and it's merely okay.


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## starthrower

I'd buy that Gielen box, but it's bit pricey!


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## Heck148

starthrower said:


> Give me your top six Mahler 9ths. If you can, I'd like three modern recordings (90s or newer) and three from any other decade. Thanks!


Giulini/CSO/DG - best overall - great performance
Walter/ColSO/Sony - excellent throughout
Boulez/CSO/DG - outstanding, nearly equals Giulini
Solti/CSO - very good, the Finale is great, best I've heard
Neumann/CzPO/Supraphon


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## JACE

My three favorite recordings of Mahler's Ninth:

*Bruno Walter, Columbia SO (Sony)*
A noble and poetic reading. My desert-island M9.

*Leonard Bernstein, Concertgebouw Orchestra (DG)*
A very personal, very _extreme_ reading. Listeners tend to love it or hate it. It's very special to me because it was my gateway into Mahler.

*Jascha Horenstein, Vienna SO (Vox)*
This recording is mono and the orchestra is scrappy. But I've never heard a more _intense_ M9. Horenstein's grip is unrelenting.

Starthrower, I'm sorry that none of these meet your criteria for modern recordings. So far, I haven't heard any that can touch these.


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## starthrower

JACE said:


> Starthrower, I'm sorry that none of these meet your criteria for modern recordings. So far, I haven't heard any that can touch these.


That's fine. I appreciate your input! I found Boulez, and Litton at my library, and they have one of Walter's too, but I don't know which one? I'm gonna listen to 'em.


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## Becca

I strongly second both the Barbirolli/Berlin and Giulini/Vienna


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## Merl

Off the top of my head I like Guilini, Rattle (BPO), Karajan, Norrington, Kondrashin & Neumann. Lots of greatt recordings of this symphony. Bertini is very good too.


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## Becca

And for a modern one, while I haven't heard it, the Rattle/Berlin has received high marks (not to be confused with his earlier effort with the Vienna Phil.

_When I first wrote my Mahler recordings survey for this work some years ago I ruthlessly concluded that there were five absolutely outstanding versions on record, the crème de la crème, that address the work in slightly different ways but none of which I would ever wish to be without. These were great recordings conducted by Walter (Sony SM2K 64452 his second version), Klemperer (EMI 5 67036 2), Horenstein (Vox CDX2 5509 his only studio version), Barbirolli (EMI (72435679252) and Haitink (Philips 4622992). The most recent of these was Haitink's from the 1970s and whilst there have been other excellent recordings of the Ninth released since then (Boulez and Abbado on DG spring to mind as superb) there have been none that I would quite place among what I consider to be the five elect. Until now.

...

Returning to the recordings I listed at the start of this review as being, for me, the outstanding ones I would not say this new recording supplants any of them. However, I am convinced that it joins them as one of the finest recordings of the work that I have ever heard in terms of conception, playing and recording .

_


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## Triplets

Karel Ancerl, Czech PO
MTT/SFS
Haitink/Bavaraian Radio SO
Bernstein/NYPhil
Walter/Columbia SO
Horenstein/vox (see JACE)
that's 2 modern era


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## Brahmsian Colors

I have no 1990s or beyond to recommend---only these three superb interpretations aside from the early Bernstein/New York:

Klemperer/New Philharmonia Orchestra
Walter/Columbia Symphony
Barbirolli/Berlin philharmonic


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## Manxfeeder

I like seeing Walter being mentioned so many times. I just discovered it last week after popping in to JACE's desert island.


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## JACE

Manxfeeder said:


> I like seeing Walter being mentioned so many times. I just discovered it last week after popping in to JACE's desert island.


  










Everybody's welcome on my island.


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## hpowders

Bernstein leading the Concertgebouw is for me his best performance of the Mahler 9.

Also, Karajan's is terrific with the Berlin Philharmonic. I never would have expected it.

Believe it or not, Boulez/Chicago is also very fine.

Not satisfied with any other performances.


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## Triplets

hpowders said:


> Bernstein leading the Concertgebouw is for me his best performance of the Mahler 9.
> 
> Also, Karajan's is terrific with the Berlin Philharmonic. I never would have expected it.
> 
> Believe it or not, Boulez/Chicago is also very fine.
> 
> Not satisfied with any other performances.


I really don't carie for Heribert's 9th, but I do like his 5th and Sixth


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## Heck148

hpowders said:


> Believe it or not, Boulez/Chicago is also very fine.


Yes, indeed, a very excellent recording....Giulini/CSO just noses him out with a magnificent first mvt...Boulez is very good, tho...
Barbirolli/BPO was my first introduction to the work, so, so many years ago...I liked it until I heard Walter/ColSO which totally blew it away...

I saw/heard Rattle/BPO on TV - PBS, IIRC - I put the network up for programming it, wonderful - the performance was eh, ok, not too bad, but not in the league with some of the aforementioned - Giulini, Boulez, Solti, Walter.....
I heard a CSO broadcast of it some years back - James Conlon conducting...great performance...I do wish I had recorded it off air
M9 is a great piece, one of the greatest of all symphonies - I don't know of any "perfect" recording of it....but there are some really great ones available


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## Pugg

Triplets said:


> I really don't carie for Heribert's 9th, but I do like his 5th and Sixth


It's stunning, would not want to be without.


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## Heliogabo

Since no one has mentioned my favorite I'll recomend Abbado/BPO ' 99 live recording. A stunning performance (and my gateway to Mahler's world as well).

Review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/feb03/AbbadoM9.htm

I'll second Boulez and Karajan recordings too.
I've heard very good comments about Haitink' s rendition (Deryck Cooke called it "definitive"), but haven't heard it yet.


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## MarkW

Barbirolli/BPO
Abbado/VPO (not the live BPO one)
Neumann/CPO
Haitinck/RCO
Karajan/BPO but I don't know which one


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## Ralphus

Barbirolli/Berlin, Ancerl/Czech, Sanderling/Berlin SO, Kubelik/BRSO (Audite), Walter/Columbia, Bernstein/NYPO, 

Rattle/Berlin, Abbado/Berlin, Gielen/SWR

(Also good: Boulez/Chicago, Bertini/Cologne, Klemperer/Philharmonia, Abbado/Vienna)


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## Dr Johnson

For a recent version try David Zinman's: http://www.allmusic.com/album/mahler-symphony-no-9-mw0002016735

For an older version try Bruno Walter's 1938 version*: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=138544

*available on Naxos at half the price of the CD reviewed.


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## chesapeake bay

My top 6 are:

Rattle with the Berlin Philharmonic
Horenstein with the London Symphony
Anscerl with the Czech Philharmonic
Barbirolli with the Berlin Philharmonic
Klemperer with the New Philharmonia
Walter with the Columbia Symphony

Sorry only 1 post 90's recording


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## realdealblues

If nailed down for the finest with regards to recorded sound and playing:

Ancerl/Czech Philharmonic
Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic (II-Live)
Bernstein/Concertgebouw Orchestra
Chailly/Concertgebouw Orchestra

But I would also not want to be without:
Walter/Columbia Symphony
Klemperer/New Philharmonia
Bernstein/New York
Solti/London
Kubelik/BRSO

There are others that are well done but to me these are the only ones that I would really miss.


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## chalkpie

Reidster is in the house! You probably know mine:

Chailly/RCSO*
Boulez/Chicago (the first movement is the best here, the other three fall a wee bit short in comparison imo)
MTT/SFSO
Gielen - SWR SO
Bertini - Kolner Rundfunk SO
Lenny - RCSO (DG)
Karajan - Berliner (DG)
Barenboim - Staatskapelle Berlin (Sort of a sleeper version here. I haven't heard this disc in a while, but I recall liking it. His M7 is REALLY great btw.)

*My alpine village recording (I loathe tropical desert islands, so I'd rather live in the Austrian Alps listening to my Mahler)

I fall into the 'Mahler modern recording preference Club' (lifetime member). Its not that I don't dig some older recordings, its that this music benefits from a crystal clear presentation due to the extreme dynamic range and intricate detail. I own some older recordings but rarely revisit them due to this reason. 

AMAZING piece of music!


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## hpowders

chalkpie said:


> Reidster is in the house! You probably know mine:
> 
> Chailly/RCSO*
> Boulez/Chicago (the first movement is the best here, the other three fall a wee bit short in comparison imo)
> MTT/SFSO
> Gielen - SWR SO
> Bertini - Kolner Rundfunk SO
> Lenny - RCSO (DG)
> Karajan - Berliner (DG)
> 
> *My alpine village recording (I loathe tropical desert islands, so I'd rather live in the Austrian Alps listening to my Mahler)
> 
> I fall into the 'Mahler modern recording preference Club' (lifetime member). Its not that I don't dig some older recordings, its that this music benefits from a crystal clear presentation due to the extreme dynamic range and intricate detail. I own some older recordings but rarely revisit them due to this reason.
> 
> AMAZING piece of music!


We seem to have similar taste in Mahler 9, so I will put Gielen, Bertini, MTT and Chailly on my list as I haven't heard any of their Mahler 9's.


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## Delicious Manager

My six (no particular order)
Abbado/Lucerne FO
Barbirolli/BPO
Barshai/Moscow RSO
Runnicles/BBC SSO
Sanderling/Berlin SO
Walter/Columbia SO


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## starthrower

Wow! I'm gratified by all of the generous responses. There's a fair amount of goofy stuff at this forum, but there are also a lot of very knowledgeable and experienced listeners with great taste! Muchas Gracias!!!


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## Vaneyes

LB (Sony Century), HvK I (DG), Barbirolli (EMI GROC, Masters), BPO/Abbado (DG), HvK II (DG), VPO/Walter-1938 (EMI GAOC).


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## hpowders

I heard the 1938 Walter. I found it disappointingly fast.


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## Vaneyes

hpowders said:


> I heard the 1938 Walter. I found it disappointingly fast.


Probably the proper interp., considering the circumstances.


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## chalkpie

hpowders said:


> We seem to have similar taste in Mahler 9, so I will put Gielen, Bertini, MTT and Chailly on my list as I haven't heard any of their Mahler 9's.


Go for the Chailly first. One of my favorite classical albums, PERIOD. Its beyond special to me. When I see lists that don't include this recording, I am always wondering if they haven't heard it or were they actually listening to it when they did 

The engineering is special also, and the orchestra has never sounded better to me (especially the winds - just wow).


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## charles curran

The one I listened to most before was Bernstein 60s
but in recent times
Boulez
(and Abbado)(love his syph 2)
(others I have heard
WALTER both
Karjan both
Jansons

Bernstein on DG


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## chalkpie

charles curran said:


> The one I listened to most before was Bernstein 60s
> but in recent times
> Boulez
> (and Abbado)(love his syph 2)
> (others I have heard
> WALTER both
> Karjan both
> Jansons
> 
> Bernstein on DG


I need to check out the Abbado again. I recall really not liking the engineering on his M6 and M7 Berliner discs - like a 'back of the hall listening perspective', just not my cuppa. I can't recall if the M9 was any better or not? I own it though!


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## starthrower

chalkpie said:


> Go for the Chailly first. One of my favorite classical albums, PERIOD. Its beyond special to me. When I see lists that don't include this recording, I am always wondering if they haven't heard it or were they actually listening to it when they did
> 
> The engineering is special also, and the orchestra has never sounded better to me (especially the winds - just wow).


I will grab a used copy as soon as I see one for a buck or two.


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## chalkpie

starthrower said:


> I will grab a used copy as soon as I see one for a buck or two.


Excellent. Just to wet your whistle......when you crank this thing, the crescendo that happens at exactly timing 3:44 just washes through my being like a flippin' F5 tornado. I think Chaiily holds it JUST enough to keep me wanting more but doesn't overdo it - just PERFECT. Moments like that (and many others) are why I love this recording so much.


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## starthrower

I love the Royal Concertgebouw! Their Horizon series features some great sounding recordings!


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## chalkpie

^So in that Chailly recording, let's talk about the amazing little segment starting at around 9:00 in that recording. The harp eventually starts playing this 4-note motif (which does alter by one note), the strings then playing in a slightly ambiguous, yet sort of dark and moody line (which is harmonized brilliantly BTW), and Mahler keeps taking that string figure further and further, and hinting at possibly some "light" coming through, yet the listener is still unsure. Its one single note in the strings that gives us the hint. But at 9:57, Mahler finally gives in and we are now out of the darkness, into the light once again, and treated to a restatement of the main theme of the movement. Genius. Just an absolutely brilliant 50 or so seconds of music, and it demonstrates the Jekyll and Hyde personality of Mahler. I also think that this section is brilliantly conveyed by Chailly and the RCSO.


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## starthrower

Frankie, I will listen to this some more tomorrow. Gotta get up at 2:15 am for work.


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## chalkpie

starthrower said:


> Frankie, I will listen to this some more tomorrow. Gotta get up at 2:15 am for work.


2:15 AM??!! Why bother? Stay up and listen to Mahler instead!


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## starthrower

chalkpie said:


> 2:15 AM??!! Why bother? Stay up and listen to Mahler instead!


It's only a 3 and a half hour shift, so I'll be back home a seven to make coffee and listen to more music!


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## chalkpie

starthrower said:


> It's only a 3 and a half hour shift, so I'll be back home a seven to make coffee and listen to more music!


Right on brother - have fun mate.


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## Delicious Manager

hpowders said:


> I heard the 1938 Walter. I found it disappointingly fast.


Probably to make it fit onto those 78 rpm shellac discs.


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## starthrower

Delicious Manager said:


> Probably to make it fit onto those 78 rpm shellac discs.


A Mahler cycle on 78s! Lots of extra postage!


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## SixFootScowl

I only have Bernstein and Levine. Between those two I prefer Levine.


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## starthrower

Segerstam's recording.


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## starthrower

Another modern recording on the excellent Challenge Classics label.
Danish Natl Symphony-Schonwandt


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## starthrower

And Zinman, recommended by Dr Johnson.


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## Dr Johnson

starthrower said:


> And Zinman, recommended by Dr Johnson.


Hope you like it!


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## starthrower

Dr Johnson said:


> Hope you like it!


I do! Listened to the whole thing. I like the Schonwandt too.


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## Dr Johnson

starthrower said:


> *I do!* Listened to the whole thing. I like the Schonwandt too.


Phew! :lol:


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## Becca

I was quite surprised to realize that I only have one version of the Mahler 9th in my CD collection. There are two others on vinyl but they don't count as they, along with my turntable, are in storage.


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## mrravioli

I really enjoy Rattle's 2009 BPO live recording.


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## chalkpie

I like Zinman's M6 a lot, but I have never heard his M9. Will check out - thanks guys.


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## starthrower

Dr Johnson said:


> Phew! :lol:


Gimme 50, Johnson!


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## Becca

This thread along with the realization that I only had one usable copy of the 9th, made me decide to do some comparisons via streaming sites. I started by playing my copy of the Barbirolli/Berlin recording and then went on to sample the Klemperer/New Philharmonia, Giulini/Chicago and Bernstein/Berlin versions. Unfortunately I could not find the Walter/Columbia Symphony recording. After reading the reviews of the Rattle/Berlin recording, I checked and discovered that my local library branch had a copy so I got that today. Herewith a few thoughts...

- I think that it is absolutely critical that the conductor uses a left/right split of the first and second violins in order to be able to audibly sort out the various threads. This is particularly noticeable early in the first movement. Bonus points to Barbirolli, Klemperer and Rattle.
- My recollection of my vinyl version of the Klemperer was never very positive. Perhaps that was from the quality of the pressing because I had a strong positive impression on hearing it now. Late Klemperer recordings have the reputation of being slow. That is true of the middle movements here but is not at all true of the outer movements. Even in the middle movements, the strong rhythmic sense means that they don't feel slack.
- The Bernstein may have been recorded in the Philharmonie but the engineers managed to make it sound like a massive cathedral, i.e. the reverbration is very noticeable and distracting.
- It is NOT necessary for the conductor to audibly stamp his foot at the string entrance in the 2nd movement. Minus points to Walter and Klemperer!
- I am half way through the Rattle and I can see why it got such good reviews.
- Although I usually like Giulini's recordings, his 9th seems a bit undefined - and don't ask exactly what that means.
- Sound-wise, the Klemperer and Rattle are terrific despite the 50 years between them.

At this point I think that I will add the Klemperer and Rattle versions to my collection.


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## Heck148

Becca said:


> - It is NOT necessary for the conductor to audibly stamp his foot at the string entrance in the 2nd movement. Minus points to Walter and Klemperer!tween them.


There is a rehearsal segment of Walter ColSO that was issued with the recording - actually it was quire extensive - they hot-miked Walter's podium mike during a rehearsal, and did not tell him....he was p*ssed!! but they did get him to agree to release some of it...He kept stamping his foot in the 2nd mvt string entrance - the engineers gently reminded him several times...he finally got it, except - during the actual taping session, he stamped his foot again!! they just left it in....

Check out Giulini/CSO, esp the first mvt. NOBODY gauges those climaxes as splendidly as Giulini....it is really marvelous...each one increases in volume and intensity, and the final/4th one hits with crushing power...Walter and Boulez do it quite well also....of all the others I've heard, nobody really comes close.


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## Becca

Heck148 said:


> There is a rehearsal segment of Walter ColSO that was issued with the recording - actually it was quire extensive - they hot-miked Walter's podium mike during a rehearsal, and did not tell him....he was p*ssed!! but they did get him to agree to release some of it...He kept stamping his foot in the 2nd mvt string entrance - the engineers gently reminded him several times...he finally got it, except - during the actual taping session, he stamped his foot again!! they just left it in....


I remember hearing that many, many years ago. As noted, Klemperer does it also!



Heck148 said:


> Check out Giulini/CSO, esp the first mvt. NOBODY gauges those climaxes as splendidly as Giulini....it is really marvelous...each one increases in volume and intensity, and the final/4th one hits with crushing power...Walter and Boulez do it quite well also....of all the others I've heard, nobody really comes close.


Actually I did...



Becca said:


> - Although I usually like Giulini's recordings, his 9th seems a bit undefined - and don't ask exactly what that means.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Becca said:


> - Although I usually like Giulini's recordings, his 9th seems a bit undefined - and don't ask exactly what that means.


Giulini's Ninth might actually be a bit too refined in part. Though it's been some time since I last listened to it, I recall some portions of the first movement's tragic aspect sounding a bit underplayed. In the second and third movements, there seems to be a bit more obvious deficit as far as revealing the frustration and bitterness indicated by Mahler. It's as if some of the sardonic, taunting and coarse elements have been replaced by an inappropriate "pleasantness", though it is somewaht less evident in the rondo-burlesque than the "death dance" of the preceding second movement. These impressions notwithstanding, I feel Giulini's Mahler Ninth is beautifully and superbly played by the Chicago Symphony.


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## JACE

Haydn67 said:


> Giulini's Ninth might actually be a bit too refined in part. Though it's been some time since I last listened to it, I recall some portions of the first movement's tragic element sounding a bit underplayed. In the second and third movements, there seems to be a bit more obvious deficit as far as revealing the frustration and bitterness indicated by Mahler. Instead, it's as if I hear a rather out of place "pleasantness", though it is somewaht less evident in the rondo-burlesque than the "death dance" of the preceding second movement.


My recollections of Giulini's M9 are the same, although I suppose my reservations are more considerable. I love Giulini's conducting, but I've never really warmed to his Mahler. For me, there's something missing. Is it irony? Sarcasm? Angst? I'm not sure. It just seems like there's not enough _bite_.

Of course, you could easily say the same thing about Bruno Walter's approach to Mahler. But Walter's Mahler recordings send me over the moon. Go figure.

... Just my personal impressions, of course.


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## Brahmsian Colors

JACE said:


> My recollections of Giulini's M9 are the same, although I suppose my reservations are more considerable. I love Giulini's conducting, but I've never really warmed to his Mahler. For me, there's something missing. Is it irony? Sarcasm? Angst? I'm not sure. It just seems like there's not enough _bite_.
> 
> Of course, you could easily say the same thing about Bruno Walter's approach to Mahler. But Walter's Mahler recordings send me over the moon. Go figure.
> 
> ... Just my personal impressions, of course.


Jace...Just prior to seeing your reply here, I returned to revise some of what I said above which was actually part of a review of Giulini's Ninth I had written several years back. I failed to include a portion of that review in which I had indicated what I believed to be Giulini's blunting of some of the composer's mocking character with somewhat of a polite overlay. So, when you ask : "Is it irony? Sarcasm? Angst?", I would reply with a resounding *yes*. On this we both agree.


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## Becca

I have many positive memories of attending Los Angeles Phil. concerts during the Giulini years, including both Mahler & Bruckner and so he one of my 'go to' conductors. As an interesting aside, the LA Phil had a very young Principal Guest Conductor during that time and for some years after, a guy by the name of Rattle.


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## Heck148

Haydn67 said:


> Giulini's Ninth might actually be a bit too refined in part. Though it's been some time since I last listened to it, I recall some portions of the first movement's tragic aspect sounding a bit underplayed.


??? Giulini is anything but underplayed in the first mvt....each climax increases progressively in intensity and volume - splendid clarity and execution - the 4th, final one is incredibly powerful - the opening "arrhythmia" motif sounded forth by low brass is absolutely stentorian....never heard it equaled. 
Giulini paces the 2nd mvt perfectly, with all of the tempo changes - and he gets stunning solo work from the orchestra throughout. Same with the Rondo - again, tempo is crucial, it keeps up-shifting, faster until the end...on some performances the tempo increases are too soon, too sudden, leaving no place to go in the final two sections - what results is a train wreck, or no tempo change...one's wad is "shot too early". Giulini also gets the contrast between the vigorous opening, closing "A" sections and the more lyrical, passionate middle "B" section most effectively...
The finale is the one mvt that could use more ebb, flow and build-up...for me Solti/CSO and Walter/ColSO do this a tad better. Boulez is very good also...Boulez' middle mvts are very excellent, also.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Heck148 said:


> ??? Giulini is anything but underplayed in the first mvt....each climax increases progressively in intensity and volume - splendid clarity and execution - the 4th, final one is incredibly powerful - the opening "arrhythmia" motif sounded forth by low brass is absolutely stentorian....never heard it equaled.
> Giulini paces the 2nd mvt perfectly, with all of the tempo changes - and he gets stunning solo work from the orchestra throughout. Same with the Rondo - again, tempo is crucial, it keeps up-shifting, faster until the end...on some performances the tempo increases are too soon, too sudden, leaving no place to go in the final two sections - what results is a train wreck, or no tempo change...one's wad is "shot too early". Giulini also gets the contrast between the vigorous opening, closing "A" sections and the more lyrical, passionate middle "B" section most effectively...
> The finale is the one mvt that could use more ebb, flow and build-up...for me Solti/CSO and Walter/ColSO do this a tad better. Boulez is very good also...Boulez' middle mvts are very excellent, also.
> 
> In the second and third movements, there seems to be a bit more obvious deficit as far as revealing the frustration and bitterness indicated by Mahler. It's as if some of the sardonic, taunting and coarse elements have been replaced by an inappropriate "pleasantness", though it is somewaht less evident in the rondo-burlesque than the "death dance" of the preceding second movement. These impressions notwithstanding, I feel Giulini's Mahler Ninth is beautifully and superbly played by the Chicago Symphony.


I'm not sure why you included my quote above as your last paragraph, unless you're indicating agreement with me here. If not, there appear to be areas in which we are hearing/interpreting the expression of Mahler's anguish as represented by Giulini in different ways. Questions also obviously arise as to why we prefer or relate more effectively to one conductor's view over another's. Subjectivity refuses to be ignored.


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## chalkpie

^Had no idea that Segerstam recorded this. I love his Sibelius. Thanks man. 

Are you starting to come around to M9 a bit more?


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## starthrower

chalkpie said:


> ^Had no idea that Segerstam recorded this. I love his Sibelius. Thanks man.
> 
> Are you starting to come around to M9 a bit more?


Yeah! I've listened to it many times in the past week. I'm still going through the Tennstedt box, and I ordered Bernstein's DG set.


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## Heck148

I meant to delete that paragraph, but obviously forgot....have edited it....

Mahler #9 presents some real challenges to the conductor - in the inner mvts, there are constant changes of tempo, all important relative to one another....
When done badly, it really makes a mess - IIRC -Bernstein's NYPO recording suffers in mvt II - he starts to fast, so when the quicker tempo sections arrive, he has to go too fast to make it really work...he has no place to go...
for a real mess - Svetlanov, in mvt III - gawd, what a disaster of a recording!! he goes way too fast after the middle section, so when the final 2 sections need to speed up, the whole thing disintegrates in a train wreck, with the orchestra wildly strewn about all over the closing pages...it is almost comical...


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## Manxfeeder

Becca said:


> I have many positive memories of attending Los Angeles Phil. concerts during the Giulini years, including both Mahler & Bruckner and so he one of my 'go to' conductors. As an interesting aside, the LA Phil had a very young Principal Guest Conductor during that time and for some years after, a guy by the name of Rattle.


Thanks for bringing that up. Back in the day, before I was a serious classical listener, I went to a couple LA Phil concerts, and I remember the name Rattle. I've been thinking it couldn't have been Simon. I guess it was. (All this time I thought I was confusing him with Sidney Harth, who also guest conducted when they would take road trips to Claremont.)


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## Becca

Manxfeeder said:


> Thanks for bringing that up. Back in the day, before I was a serious classical listener, I went to a couple LA Phil concerts, and I remember the name Rattle. I've been thinking it couldn't have been Simon. I guess it was. (All this time I thought I was confusing him with Sidney Harth, who also guest conducted when they would take road trips to Claremont.)


One and the same


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## JACE

Becca said:


> I have many positive memories of attending Los Angeles Phil. concerts during the Giulini years, including both Mahler & Bruckner and so he one of my 'go to' conductors. As an interesting aside, the LA Phil had a very young Principal Guest Conductor during that time and for some years after, a guy by the name of Rattle.


I'm jealous that you got to hear Giulini frequently.  I bet there were many MAGNIFICENT performances.

And Rattle too. Wow! I had no idea that he'd been a Principal Guest Conductor in L.A.


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## starthrower

I picking up copies of Boulez, and Abbado Berlin from the library today.


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## Brahmsian Colors

Heck148 said:


> I meant to delete that paragraph, but obviously forgot....have edited it....
> 
> Mahler #9 presents some real challenges to the conductor - in the inner mvts, there are constant changes of tempo, all important relative to one another....
> When done badly, it really makes a mess - IIRC -Bernstein's NYPO recording suffers in mvt II - he starts to fast, so when the quicker tempo sections arrive, he has to go too fast to make it really work...he has no place to go...
> for a real mess - Svetlanov, in mvt III - gawd, what a disaster of a recording!! he goes way too fast after the middle section, so when the final 2 sections need to speed up, the whole thing disintegrates in a train wreck, with the orchestra wildly strewn about all over the closing pages...it is almost comical...


I just want you to know despite our different views/opinions along some lines, I invariably find your comments interesting and enjoyable reading. :tiphat:


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## lluissineu

Wrong thread, sorry


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## starthrower

lluissineu said:


> Do you speak Spanish, Starthrower?


Not very much. Although I did study Spanish in school. But I mostly stared at the teacher because she was a beautiful senora!


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## Guest

1. Karajan/Berlin live
2. Karajan/Berlin studio
3. Solti/CSO
4. Sinopoli/Philharmonia
5. Dudamel/LA
6. Bernstein/NYP (SACD)


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## Maloma

-Levine, PO
-Barbirolli, BPO
-Abbado, BPO


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## MrMeatScience

I quite like Karajan's studio effort (the live too, but I prefer the studio, if only because it was my "imprint" for this piece). Gielen, Kubelik, Walter (I like the old Vienna recording), and Barbirolli are the other frontrunners in this symphony, for me.


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## Duncan

1.) Abbado/BPO

2.) Giulini/CSO

3.) Solti/LSO

4.) Walter/Wiener Philharmoniker

5.) Tennstedt/LPO

6.) Bernstein/BPO


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## Josquin13

In no particular order,

1. Bruno Walter, Columbia S.O., which has better sound than Walter's earlier 1938 Vienna Philharmonic recording on EMI (although I appreciate the use of violin slides on the earlier recording): 



. IMO, Walter should be on any list of top recordings of Mahler's 9th, considering that Mahler dedicated the symphony to him, instructed him on how to conduct it, and asked him to conduct its premiere (while asking Oskar Fried to conduct the 2nd performance, if memory serves). Here also is a link to Walter's 1938 version: 




2. Sir John Barbirolli, Berlin Philharmonic: 




3. Leonard Bernstein, New York Philharmonic, CBS--Whatever minor imperfections there may be in the 1960s New York Philharmonic orchestral playing--relative to Bernstein's later 9ths with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, Berlin Philharmonic, & Israel Philharmonic, to my ears, this is easily the best conducted Mahler 9th that Bernstein recorded in his career: 



. The latest DSD box set, and the Japanese DSD hybrid SACD offer the best remasters to date, IMO:

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Compl...ahler+bernstein&qid=1554312891&s=music&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symph...d+sacd&qid=1554312939&s=music&sr=1-3-fkmrnull

4. Otto Klemperer, New Philharmonia Orchestra: 




5. Karel Ancerl, Czech Philharmonic: 




6. Carla Maria Giulini, Chicago S.O.: 




Honorable mention (two other favorites of mine):

Riccardo Chailly, Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra (Blu-Ray), which I slightly prefer to Chailly's excellent studio account in Amsterdam, on hybrid SACD: 




Gunther Herbig, Saarbrucken Radio S.O.: 




Three others that are worth hearing:

Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam--live 1987 X-mas concert: 




Rafael Kubelik, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, Audite, live 1975, which I prefer to Kubelik's 1967 Mahler 9 for DG: https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-9-G...+9+audite&qid=1554312008&s=music&sr=8-1-fkmr1

Jascha Horenstein, London Symphony Orchestra, 1966:


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## Clouds Weep Snowflakes

I've actually been to a concert preforming it yesterday, so does the Israeli philharmonic count?


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## Enthusiast

In alphabetical order but these are the ones that whenever I listen (this list is "mood proof"!) and in their very different ways are most satisfying and rewarding for me:

Barbirolli (Berlin PO)
Boulez (Chicago SO)
Horenstein (Vienna SO)
Klemperer (NPO)
Maderna (BBC SO)
Walter (Vienna PO)

I would also give an honourable mention for Haitink (Concertgebouw). And I should say that I have recently enjoyed the Jansons and Gielen recordings but don't know them well enough to compare them with the above. If they belong in the list I am not at all sure what I would remove to make space for them.


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## elgar's ghost

^
^

I'm glad you've selected the Maderna recording. If I was a concertgoer this is the kind of raw nerves performance of the 9th I'd want in a live environment.


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## Brahmsianhorn

1) Barbirolli/RAI

2) Barbirolli/BPO

3) Walter/VPO

4) Karajan/BPO (1982)

5) Klemperer/PO

6) Horenstein/LSO (4/1966)


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## loop7

Karajan and Giulini are the only recordings I tend to love of the ninth symphony.


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## CnC Bartok

First three in order:
Solti/London SO (The earlier Decca recording)
Ancerl/Czech PO
Barbirolli/Berlin PO

Then
Haitink/Concertgebouw
Karajan/Berlin PO (studio)
Kubelík/Bavarian RSO (Audite)


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## flamencosketches

Well, I haven't heard a half dozen, but I have heard a quarter dozen. I rate them thus:

1. Karajan/Berlin (live from 1982, on DG) – I only just listened to it for the first time, but it absolutely blew me away. Perfection in sound, interpretation, and performance. I don't know how Karajan pulled it off. Surely one of the high points of his career.

2. Barbirolli/Berlin (EMI) – I need to spend more time with this, but it's a brilliant, incisive, yet deeply passionate performance. Also one of the Berlin Philharmonic's first times playing Mahler, supposedly.

3. Bernstein/NYPO (Sony) – my introduction to the piece, and it pains me to list it last, but Barbirolli just edges it out I think. I reckon it will always remain a favorite though. 

Need to hear Walter/Columbia, Chailly/RCO, Klemperer/NPO, Giulini/CSO, and Haitink/RCO. Oh, and Rattle/BPO. Seems there are many great recordings out there. I've just come around on this symphony but I think it's one of the greatest symphonies of all.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Need to hear Walter/Columbia, Chailly/RCO, Klemperer/NPO, Giulini/CSO, and Haitink/RCO. Oh, and Rattle/BPO. Seems there are many great recordings out there. I've just come around on this symphony but I think it's one of the greatest symphonies of all.


I've yet to listen to any of these and I already own seven recordings. I want to listen to Ancerl as well.


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## Heck148

I've heard many recordings, and several live performances of Mahler #9, and few, if any, get it all right...it's just a very intense, demanding work. Giulini really comes close...Walter and Boulez do also....I've heard it live, Levine, Abbado and Salonen...Abbado was excellent, Salonen perhaps the finest I've ever heard...


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> I've yet to listen to any of these and I already own seven recordings. I want to listen to Ancerl as well.


Yes, I want to hear Ancerl/Czech PO too. I listened to a bit of it in the car earlier. Sounds great.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Yes, I want to hear Ancerl/Czech PO too. I listened to a bit of it in the car earlier. Sounds great.


Presto is having a sale on Supraphon titles but the Ancerl is out of stock. I have one Janacek CD of his and it's a very exciting performance.


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## CnC Bartok

^^^ Virtually everything Karel Ancerl recorded is great. And not just Czech music. Try and hear some of his Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartók even.


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## starthrower

CnC Bartok said:


> ^^^ Virtually everything Karel Ancerl recorded is great. And not just Czech music. Try and hear some of his Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartók even.


I plan on picking up a few titles before the sale is over.


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Presto is having a sale on Supraphon titles but the Ancerl is out of stock. I have one Janacek CD of his and it's a very exciting performance.


I'll check it out, but my one transaction with Presto has been less than satisfactory. Not impressed with their customer service, and it's been over two weeks and my item hasn't been shipped, despite being told by a representative that they have it in stock and ready to go. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for the site. Those Ancerl Gold issues can go for cheap on Amazon sometimes too.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> I'll check it out, but my one transaction with Presto has been less than satisfactory. Not impressed with their customer service, and it's been over two weeks and my item hasn't been shipped, despite being told by a representative that they have it in stock and ready to go. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for the site.


Seems like they are having a tougher time acquiring stock from their distributors, or they are listing items that are not available. They do have some great deals. I've seen boxes there for 15-20 dollars that are going for big bucks at other sites.


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## Enthusiast

^ Their site does say whether or not an item is in stock but you have to pay attention. There is no proper warning that you may have to wait weeks or even months until after you have paid. But flemencosketches' case seems different in that they have told him the item is in stock but they just haven't sent it! That is presumably an aberration. 

Their site does have some bargains but if you are willing to buy used CDs from eBay, Discogs or (perhaps) Amazon you can find items much more cheaply. I have had bad experiences with used items from the big sellers (as measured by their having more than 100,000 feedback votes on the Amazon site) but the smaller ones seem to offer a great service.


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## NLAdriaan

I confessed many times before, but just now am seeing this dedicated thread. This Karajan II 9th Mahler is still my number one on record. I heard many others, also live, and I must say that my best live experience was Haitink conducting the RCO in the 9th in Amsterdam in june 2018.

A great composition but also very demanding to both the orchestra and the conductor.


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## starthrower

Enthusiast said:


> ^ Their site does say whether or not an item is in stock but you have to pay attention. There is no proper warning that you may have to wait weeks or even months until after you have paid.


I've had email exchanges with their customer service and they are fair and reasonable. I'm sure if you requested a refund for an item that is back ordered indefinitely they will give you a refund. I do buy used from Discogs and Amazon as well.


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## Brahmsianhorn

My current ranking of the ones I've heard:

Sir John Barbirolli (1960) (IDIS) 
Sir John Barbirolli (1964) (EMI) 
Bruno Walter (1938) (EMI, Dutton) 
Herbert von Karajan (1982) (DG) 
Otto Klemperer (EMI)
Jascha Horenstein (1966) (Music & Arts) 
Kirill Kondrashin (Melodiya) 
Karel Ancerl (Supraphon) 
Jascha Horenstein (1966) (BBC) 
Jascha Horenstein (1969) (Music & Arts) 
Leonard Bernstein (1971) (DG DVD) 
Leonard Bernstein (1979) (DG) 
Simon Rattle (2007) (EMI) 
Jascha Horenstein (1953) (Vox) 
Bernard Haitink (Philips) 
Bruno Walter (1960) (Sony) 
Carlo Maria Giulini (DG) 
Dmitri Mitropoulos (Archipel, Music & Arts, Andante)
Herbert von Karajan (1980) (DG) 
George Szell (1969) (Stradivari)
Claudio Abbado (2011) (Accentus DVD)
Leopold Ludwig (Everest) 
Rafael Kubelik (Audite) 
Claudio Abbado (DG) 
Hermann Scherchen (1950) (Orfeo, Melodram)
Bruno Maderna (BBC) 
Kurt Sanderling (BBC) 
Wyn Morris (Pickwick) 
Pierre Boulez (DG)


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## Duncan

Mahler 9th - Best half-dozen in alphabetical order -

Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Claudio Abbado

Gewandhaus Orchestra Leipzig, Riccardo Chailly

Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini

Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Rafael Kubelik

London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Georg Solti

Wiener Philharmoniker/Bruno Walter

Only three? -

Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, Claudio Abbado

Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini

London Symphony Orchestra, Sir Georg Solti

Only one? -

Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Carlo Maria Giulini

Many Mahler interpreters have been moved to speak with profundity about the work:

It expresses an extraordinary love of the earth, for Nature. The longing to live on it in peace, to enjoy it completely, to the very heart of one's being, before death comes, as irresistibly it does. 
- Alban Berg

It is music coming from another world, it is coming from eternity. - Herbert von Karajan

It is terrifying, and paralyzing, as the strands of sound disintegrate ... in ceasing, we lose it all. But in letting go, we have gained everything. - Leonard Bernstein

I believe it to be not only his last but also his greatest achievement. - Otto Klemperer

[Mahler's] Ninth is most strange. In it, the author hardly speaks as an individual any longer. It almost seems as though this work must have a concealed author who used Mahler merely as his spokesman, as his mouthpiece. - Arnold Schoenberg

It was voted the 4th greatest symphony of all time in a survey of conductors carried out by the BBC music magazine.

Less favourable views include:

Someday, some real friends of Mahler's will ... take a pruning knife and reduce his works to the length that they would have been if the composer had not stretched them out of shape; and then the great Mahler war will be over ... The Ninth Symphony would last about twenty minutes. 
- *Deems Taylor*

Mahler died in May 1911, without ever hearing his Ninth Symphony performed.

The work's ending is usually interpreted as his conscious farewell to the world, as it was composed following the death of his beloved daughter Maria Anna in 1907 and the diagnosis of his fatal heart disease. However, this notion is disputed inasmuch as Mahler felt that he was in good health at the time of the composition of the 9th Symphony; he had had a very successful season (1909-10) as the conductor of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra and, before that, the Metropolitan Opera.

In his last letters, Mahler indicated that he was looking forward to an extensive tour with the orchestra for the 1910-11 season. Moreover, Mahler worked on his unfinished Tenth Symphony until his death from endocarditis in May 1911.

His dying words were... "Tell... *Deems Taylor.*.. to go to hell... prick..."


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## flamencosketches

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 125732
> 
> 
> I confessed many times before, but just now am seeing this dedicated thread. This Karajan II 9th Mahler is still my number one on record. I heard many others, also live, and I must say that my best live experience was Haitink conducting the RCO in the 9th in Amsterdam in june 2018.
> 
> A great composition but also very demanding to both the orchestra and the conductor.


I listened to this Karajan recording for the first time yesterday. An amazing performance for sure, I was blown away. I think this is a great work that rewards multiple interpretations, but the Karajan struck me as a good, balanced performance. I know that Karajan's Mahler is not well respected but his vision here I think is spot on. Definitely my favorite of the three I've heard, Bernstein/NYPO, Barbirolli/BPO being the other two. I'm new to this work. I'll be finding my favorites in due time.

I'm jealous that you got to see Haitink conduct it!! He is one of the last great Mahler conductors of that older generation left, and he's just retired as I'm getting into Mahler for the first time this year.


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## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> . I know that Karajan's Mahler is not well respected but his vision here I think is spot on. Definitely my favorite of the three I've heard, Bernstein/NYPO, Barbirolli/BPO being the other two. I'm new to this work. I'll be finding my favorites in due time.


definitely treat yourself to some of the really great M9s....Walter/ColSO, Giulini/CSO, Boulez/CSO...
if you get the chance to hear Salonen conduct it, by all means, take it...I heard him conduct it in Chicago 2 seasons ago..really great, perhaps best I've ever heard. James Conlon does a fine job, as well.


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## NLAdriaan

flamencosketches said:


> I listened to this Karajan recording for the first time yesterday. An amazing performance for sure, I was blown away. I think this is a great work that rewards multiple interpretations, but the Karajan struck me as a good, balanced performance. I know that Karajan's Mahler is not well respected but his vision here I think is spot on. Definitely my favorite of the three I've heard, Bernstein/NYPO, Barbirolli/BPO being the other two. I'm new to this work. I'll be finding my favorites in due time.
> 
> I'm jealous that you got to see Haitink conduct it!! He is one of the last great Mahler conductors of that older generation left, and he's just retired as I'm getting into Mahler for the first time this year.


Karajan II offers a very intense live recording, as if you are part of the orchestra. With the changes from full brass orchestra to almost string quartet in the end, it gives a new dimension to Mahler. Some say Karajan 'live' was really something else and maybe this late recording comes close to a live experience.

Haitink changed his view of Mahler and especially the ninth, quite considerably over time. I heard him conduct it when he left the RCO as chief, in 1988. It was a very dramatic reading, which he exaggerated, making the music almost unbearable. In 2018, he took a fresh transparant approach, giving a lot of energy to the music. The drama was gone and the music could speak for itself.

From the living and active Mahler conductors, I can recommend Vladimir Jurowski and Ivan Fischer, Frans-Xavier Roth offers a fresh view too. Next May, there will be another Mahler festival in Amsterdam. I have tickets for Kirill Petrenko with the Berliner Philharmoniker and am very curious to hear them playing the 6th. Most other conductors are frankly much less tempting to hear (Chung(?!), van Zweden, Barenboim, Harding). Quite a difference with the last Amsterdam Mahler festival in 1995, where Abbado, Haitink, Chailly and Rattle were conducting.


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## CnC Bartok

Mollie John, I am very glad someone else has such high opinions about Solti's London recording. Him and Ancerl are the two who for me bring out some genuine demonic excitement in the work, especially in the first and third movements.


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## Enthusiast

starthrower said:


> I've had email exchanges with their customer service and they are fair and reasonable. I'm sure if you requested a refund for an item that is back ordered indefinitely they will give you a refund. I do buy used from Discogs and Amazon as well.


Yes, they do. If you get tired of waiting you get your money back. But it can be a bit irritating to order something out of stock from them without having noticed and then after a week or two of waiting you find that your second cheapest option has gone up in price. Not really their fault but you until the put "out of stock" in larger letters you do need to remember to check.


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## Heck148

Giulini still tops the list for me on recordings of M9....remarkable performance, he hits all the big climaxes, and gets the rising/falling action most convincingly. the big orchestra sonorities are truly earthshaking, but special mention must be made of the delicious chamber music passages as well...one specific example - Near the end of mvt II Landler - the splendid playing of Solo Viola, Horn I, Bassoon I and Contrabassoon is absolutely exquisite...brilliant work that. is very special....


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## 1996D

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 125732
> 
> 
> I confessed many times before, but just now am seeing this dedicated thread. This Karajan II 9th Mahler is still my number one on record. I heard many others, also live, and I must say that my best live experience was Haitink conducting the RCO in the 9th in Amsterdam in june 2018.
> 
> A great composition but also very demanding to both the orchestra and the conductor.











The only other that gets the piece. All the others screw up the counterpoint and focus on unimportant things.


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## starthrower

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 125732
> 
> 
> I confessed many times before, but just now am seeing this dedicated thread. This Karajan II 9th Mahler is still my number one on record. I heard many others, also live, and I must say that my best live experience was Haitink conducting the RCO in the 9th in Amsterdam in june 2018.
> 
> A great composition but also very demanding to both the orchestra and the conductor.


This performance is included in the Karajan / Berliner 8 CD box which sells for the price of a single disc.









A nice set if you aren't a Karajan junkie but you want a handful of his recordings. Here's a link with the content. https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8306218--karajan-the-berliner-philharmoniker


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## AZlexanderBaldwin

Abbado/Lucerne

Maazel/NY Phil

Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin

Solti/Chicago

Bernstein/Berlin

Karajan/Berlin


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## Bigbang

Any comments on Benjamin Zander live version? Have not seen any comments on this thread though may have missed it.


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## Merl

Bigbang said:


> Any comments on Benjamin Zander live version? Have not seen any comments on this thread though may have missed it.


It's excellent and you wouldn't know its a 'youth orchestra' as their playing is really mature. The Boston disc is streets ahead of his Philharmonia recording in sound, conception and performance. Only heard this a short time ago and it's impressive.


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## Rogerx

AZlexanderBaldwin said:


> Abbado/Lucerne
> 
> Maazel/NY Phil
> 
> Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin
> 
> Solti/Chicago
> 
> Bernstein/Berlin
> 
> Karajan/Berlin


Please enlighten us a bit more .


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## NLAdriaan

I wonder what you think of this performance. It was a pleasant surprise to me, as Chung was not on my list of Mahler specialists. 
I listened to this concert live in Amsterdam, but this Elbphilharmonie performance is better integrated.

Chung, with the Concertgebouworchestra, give a fresh reading of the symphony, all usual sentiments are gone and it reveals the modernistic aspects of the work, often overlooked in sometimes depressed interpretations that we know.

Chung was to perform this symphony also at the Mahlerfeest in Amsterdam in May, now unfortunately cancelled (or to be postponed), due to the tiny Corona *******.


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## Marc

NLAdriaan said:


> I wonder what you think of this performance. It was a pleasant surprise to me, as Chung was not on my list of Mahler specialists.
> I listened to this concert live in Amsterdam, but this Elbphilharmonie performance is better integrated.
> 
> Chung, with the Concertgebouworchestra, give a fresh reading of the symphony, all usual sentiments are gone and it reveals the modernistic aspects of the work, often overlooked in sometimes depressed interpretations that we know.
> 
> Chung was to perform this symphony also at the Mahlerfeest in Amsterdam in May, now unfortunately cancelled (or to be postponed), due to the tiny Corona *******.


Yes, a pity about that Mahler Festival... and all other events anywhere, of course.
I have very good memories of Abbado's performance of M9 during the festival of 1995 (which was 75 years after Mengelberg's 1920 festival). But it was never put on cd, so I won't choose for it.

I'm gonna throw this sixpack in... mainly based on memories:

*Solti / London SO* (especially the grim and rough first movement… wow - very expressive performance all around, much more to my likings than his later recording with the Chicago SO)
*Ancerl / Czech PhO* (I kinda learned to appreciate this piece thanks to this recording)
*Haitink / Concertgebouw* (first [studio] recording)
*Barbirolli / Berliner Phil*
*Bernstein / Berliner Phil 'live'* (despite the missing trombones in the climax of the finale)
*Abbado / Berliner Phil 'live'* (made me think of the earlier mentioned 1995 Mahler festival performance)

With a 'bonus' mentioning of:
*Von Karajan / Berliner Phil (first [studio] recording* - less 'beautiful' than the later live recording, which especially works better for the Finale imho)

EDIT: apologies to the thread starter... most of my choices are older than the 1990s. But they are all very well recorded as far as I can remember.


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## Bigbang

Merl said:


> It's excellent and you wouldn't know its a 'youth orchestra' as their playing is really mature. The Boston disc is streets ahead of his Philharmonia recording in sound, conception and performance. Only heard this a short time ago and it's impressive.


I was referring to the Philharmonia recording as I did not know he recorded one earlier. I am still working on "liking" the 9th. Now I have Karajan (1980? not live) Bernstein, Giulini, Barbirolli, and the Zander. At least I can hear the lecture too.


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## Ulfilas

Late to the party, but here are the 6 I would purchase (or have purchased), in no particular order.

Post-90s

Jesús López-Cobos, Cincinnati Symphony, Telarc

Riccardo Chailly, Concertgebouw, Decca

Pierre Boulez, Chicago SO, DG

Pre-90s

Karel Ančerl, Czech PO, Supraphon

Seiji Ozawa, Boston SO, Philips

Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw, Philips


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## Allegro Con Brio

Barbirolli live 1960 with the Torino Radio Symphony (I think?) is a _monumental_ recording. Rough, scrappy ensemble and shockingly poor sound but a performance for the record books. However, Sir John has a very raw, dark, unforgiving view of the symphony which may not appeal to everyone. Try the BPO one first to see if you like his approach, as you can hear it, of course, with much-improved orchestral playing. Ancerl is also one of the greats - he mostly lets the music move forward untouched, but there is still so much lovely character. I doubt if the Landler has ever been played any better with the idiomatic, lilting snappiness of the Czech Phil, and the Adagio is conducted perfectly. No complaints from me about that one. Two very good, if straightforward, modern ones are Haitink and Chailly, with Haitink in particular going real fire-and-brimstone mode in the first movement. Karajan is Karajan, I find him too stiff for Mahler; though I have not heard the earlier live one. Tony Duggan thought Rattle/BPO was the greatest, but I always think the Berliners sound too sludgy under Rattle. The Walter '38 is very high on my list of recordings to hear soon. This June I will be seeing Osmo Vanska lead the MN Orchestra in this symphony - I hope to the high heavens that the virus situation is kind enough by then to let it go on. I already had one concert cancelled, and for some idiotic reason they don't offer refunds but only vouchers for later concerts.


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## Bigbang

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Barbirolli live 1960 with the Torino Radio Symphony (I think?) is a _monumental_ recording. Rough, scrappy ensemble and shockingly poor sound but a performance for the record books. However, Sir John has a very raw, dark, unforgiving view of the symphony which may not appeal to everyone. Try the BPO one first to see if you like his approach, as you can hear it, of course, with much-improved orchestral playing. Ancerl is also one of the greats - he mostly lets the music move forward untouched, but there is still so much lovely character. I doubt if the Landler has ever been played any better with the idiomatic, lilting snappiness of the Czech Phil, and the Adagio is conducted perfectly. No complaints from me about that one. Two very good, if straightforward, modern ones are Haitink and Chailly, with Haitink in particular going real fire-and-brimstone mode in the first movement. Karajan is Karajan, I find him too stiff for Mahler; though I have not heard the earlier live one. Tony Duggan thought Rattle/BPO was the greatest, but I always think the Berliners sound too sludgy under Rattle. The Walter '38 is very high on my list of recordings to hear soon. This June I will be seeing Osmo Vanska lead the MN Orchestra in this symphony - I hope to the high heavens that the virus situation is kind enough by then to let it go on. I already had one concert cancelled, and for some idiotic reason they don't offer refunds but only vouchers for later concerts.


I am guessing you are referring to my last post. I have not devoted much time to Mahler and this is the main reason for not having much affection for his works. I own several 1st's, 4th's and 9ths. I acquired all of them for $1.00 or less shopping at thrift stores. It so happened I purchased my 9ths in the last few months so I am now just getting around to listening to it. I am sure these I have are good enough to start with and if I click with one or two I will check out some more like you brought up.


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## Allegro Con Brio

Bigbang said:


> I am guessing you are referring to my last post. I have not devoted much time to Mahler and this is the main reason for not having much affection for his works. I own several 1st's, 4th's and 9ths. I acquired all of them for $1.00 or less shopping at thrift stores. It so happened I purchased my 9ths in the last few months so I am now just getting around to listening to it. I am sure these I have are good enough to start with and if I click with one or two I will check out some more like you brought up.


It was just a general reply to the thread, sharing my favorite performances .


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## CnC Bartok

Marc said:


> Yes, a pity about that Mahler Festival... and all other events anywhere, of course.
> I have very good memories of Abbado's performance of M9 during the festival of 1995 (which was 75 years after Mengelberg's 1920 festival). But it was never put on cd, so I won't choose for it.
> 
> I'm gonna throw this sixpack in... mainly based on memories:
> 
> *Solti / London SO* (especially the grim and rough first movement… wow - very expressive performance all around, much more to my likings than his later recording with the Chicago SO)
> *Ancerl / Czech PhO* (I kinda learned to appreciate this piece thanks to this recording)
> *Haitink / Concertgebouw* (first [studio] recording)
> *Barbirolli / Berliner Phil*
> *Bernstein / Berliner Phil 'live'* (despite the missing trombones in the climax of the finale)
> *Abbado / Berliner Phil 'live'* (made me think of the earlier mentioned 1995 Mahler festival performance)
> 
> With a 'bonus' mentioning of:
> *Von Karajan / Berliner Phil (first [studio] recording* - less 'beautiful' than the later live recording, which especially works better for the Finale imho)
> 
> EDIT: apologies to the thread starter... most of my choices are older than the 1990s. But they are all very well recorded as far as I can remember.


Your selection is remarkably similar to mine, (see post 84). Congratulations on having exquisite taste and a wonderful ear, and delighted to see someone else sharing my admiration for the wonderful older Solti recording! :tiphat:


----------



## DavidA

NLAdriaan said:


> View attachment 125732
> 
> 
> I confessed many times before, but just now am seeing this dedicated thread. This Karajan II 9th Mahler is still my number one on record. I heard many others, also live, and I must say that my best live experience was Haitink conducting the RCO in the 9th in Amsterdam in june 2018.
> 
> A great composition but also very demanding to both the orchestra and the conductor.


Yes I'd agree that Karajan cuts it best. I have others by
Bernstein / BPO
Abaddo
Barbirolli / BPO
Klemperer
Giulini
Heard great things about the last two but disappointing to me
Also Tennstedt and Kubelik as part of sets.


----------



## Marc

CnC Bartok said:


> Your selection is remarkably similar to mine, (see post 84). Congratulations on having exquisite taste and a wonderful ear, and delighted to see someone else sharing my admiration for the wonderful older Solti recording! :tiphat:


And I even forgot to give your post a 'like'! (I just did though.)

But yes, it's especially striking that we both explicitely agree on the 1st recordings of Solti and Von Karajan, because most Mahlerians seem to prefer both their 2nd approaches more. 
At first, I was somehow struggling to find 6 recordings, because honestly, the older I get the less I listen to Mahler. So it was a both tough and pleasurable sentimental journey for me. And the more I tried my best, the more performances/recordings I could remember. 
I'm not very 'knowledgeable' about recent recordings though. As I said, I don't listen that much to Mahler anymore, or to any other 'large' symphonic giant for that matter. I'm more into 16th up to 18th century music now, especially baroque, and/or into keyboard & chamber music from the 19th century on and later. (I'm also much less into comparing recordings than I used to do in my 'younger' years. I think I'm more of a relaxed enjoying listener now, in general.)


----------



## DaddyGeorge

It seems everything has already been said - great inspiration for future listening. If I didn't miss anything, Herbert Blomstedt with Bamberger Symphoniker has not been mentioned yet, his (quite new - 2019) live recording really excited me...


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## flamencosketches

Not that I need another Mahler 9th... I have Karajan/Berlin (DG, live), Barbirolli/Berlin (EMI), Bernstein/NY (Sony), and Klemperer/New Philharmonia (EMI). Moreover I don't listen to Mahler's 9th all that often because it tends to leave me completely incapacitated. But after sampling both Walter/Columbia SO and Rattle/Berlin, I have gained a strong desire to acquire both... Walter for obvious reasons, he is a definitive Mahlerian, and was a protégé of the composer, but the Rattle seems to have a very strong sense of clarity and articulation to it, and also, as one can see all of my recordings are old, and I suspect it might do me some good to hear a modern, digital Mahler 9th. 

Quick, someone talk me out of it (or into it).


----------



## Becca

"...I am convinced that it [Rattle/BPO] joins them as one of the finest recordings of the work that I have ever heard in terms of conception, playing and recording .

If someone who was contemplating buying a Mahler Ninth for the very first time were to ask my opinion I would reply without hesitation that this is the one to have." - Tony Duggan


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## Knorf

A modern, digital recording that as far as I can tell is missing from this thread, is the Budapest Festival Orchestra, Iván Fischer. The playing is on the highest level, and the recording is among the best out there. Fischer's interpretation is strongly personal without ever being mannered. Emotionally committed, impassioned and aguished, with bitterness and sorrow, anger and loss, and finally transcendent acceptance, as with all the best Mahler 9s. Purchase with confidence!









Rattle's Mahler for me has always been disappointing, so I've tended to look elsewhere. It's possible I owe it to myself to give him another chance in this repertoire. For me he is a shallow conductor. But I am willing to reconsider.

My other favorite Mahler 9s are conventional:
Bernstein, with a slight preference for the Concertgebouw recording, which I also find superior to the overrated Berlin account. 
Abbado/Berlin or Lucerne.
Walter/Columbia.
Karajan/Berlin.
Boulez/Chicago.
Barbirolli/Berlin.


----------



## flamencosketches

Becca said:


> "...I am convinced that it [Rattle/BPO] joins them as one of the finest recordings of the work that I have ever heard in terms of conception, playing and recording .
> 
> If someone who was contemplating buying a Mahler Ninth for the very first time were to ask my opinion I would reply without hesitation that this is the one to have." - Tony Duggan


I'd seen that blurb. Really piqued my interest as Duggan clearly knows his stuff w/r/t Mahler, yet I found it surprising as I'd never seen anyone else praise Rattle's Mahler so highly. I'm also curious about his Resurrection w/ the CBSO. I like Rattle.

@Knorf, I don't think I mentioned it to you yet, but I really love your Boulez avatar, that's a great picture.


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

Rattle’s Mahler is quirky, but I like quirky. There’s a lot of tempo fluctuation and other little touches here and there, but that’s how I like my Mahler - with personality. I really don’t get Duggan’s admiration for the BPO 9th (generally don’t care for how the Berliners sound in Mahler), but the CBSO 2nd deserves its accolades IMO - a very intense, committed reading. Also his advocacy for the 10th is impressive - almost enough to make me like the symphony.


----------



## Manxfeeder

flamencosketches said:


> @Knorf, I don't think I mentioned it to you yet, but I really love your Boulez avatar, that's a great picture.


I didn't think that much of Debussy's Fetes until I saw that video of him conducting with sunglasses because he had shingles. He looks like one of those robots made by Kraftwerke.


----------



## Knorf

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Rattle's Mahler is quirky, but I like quirky. There's a lot of tempo fluctuation and other little touches here and there, but that's how I like my Mahler - with personality. I really don't get Duggan's admiration for the BPO 9th (generally don't care for how the Berliners sound in Mahler), but the CBSO 2nd deserves its accolades IMO - a very intense, committed reading. Also his advocacy for the 10th is impressive - almost enough to make me like the symphony.


I'll probably give Rattle's Mahler another go at some point. I remember liking that CBSO Mahler 2 pretty well, but simply preferred others.

I'm with you on the Tenth. I'm grateful he has championed it, as well as his promotion of the fourth movement to Bruckner No. 9. But I prefer the Bournemouth Rattle for Mahler's Tenth, compared to his Berliner account. And better yet then either of Rattle's Mahler 10s, in my opinion, are Dausgaard/Seattle Symphony (that recording is just _awesome_!) and Gielen/SWR.



flamencosketches said:


> @Knorf, I don't think I mentioned it to you yet, but I really love your Boulez avatar, that's a great picture.


Heh. Thanks. Yes, I'm a big Boulez fan.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Maderna
Karajan
Rattle 
Sinopoli
Boulez
Barbirolli


----------



## Knorf

Ooooh! Maderna! I haven't heard that one. I'm intrigued.

>Makes a note to look for it.<


----------



## Becca

As to Rattle's Mahler, for me it all depends on which of the symphonies. I don't much care for his approach to the 2nd, both studio and live, haven't paid much attention to his 1st & 3rd and don't have strong opinions either way about his 5th-7th. His VPO 9th was ehh! Some that I do like are his Proms 8th (studio is good but not as good), the 10th, the Berlin 9th and a very good 4th done live in Berlin in 2011.


----------



## flamencosketches

Allegro Con Brio said:


> Rattle's Mahler is quirky, but I like quirky. There's a lot of tempo fluctuation and other little touches here and there, but that's how I like my Mahler - with personality. I really don't get Duggan's admiration for the BPO 9th (generally don't care for how the Berliners sound in Mahler), but the CBSO 2nd deserves its accolades IMO - a very intense, committed reading. Also his advocacy for the 10th is impressive - almost enough to make me like the symphony.


Agreed on both fronts: not quite liking the Berliners in Mahler (and yet I have two recordings of the 9th with them, and am considering a third!  ...) & not quite liking the 10th, but admiring Rattle's presentation of it. From what I've heard I like Rattle's Birmingham days better than his Berlin tenure, plus I like the idea of Arleen Auger and Janet Baker as soloists in Mahler's 2nd, so I am drawn to that recording. But as this thread is about the 9th... I think I will probably pass on the Rattle/Berlin for now and focus on tracking down the Walter/Columbia... yes, yet another pre-1970 recording... and maybe I will check out the Rattle in the future.


----------



## flamencosketches

Well I did it, I went against my better judgment and ordered the Walter/Columbia Mahler 9th, making it my fifth... I'll write back here in a couple of weeks what I think.


----------



## ZeR0

I'm afraid I'm not at all as well versed in recordings of Mahler as many others, but the recording I have of Leonard Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic performing the 9th, I cherish.


----------



## HenryPenfold

Knorf said:


> Ooooh! Maderna! I haven't heard that one. I'm intrigued.
> 
> >Makes a note to look for it.<


Compare it with his kindred spirit Boulez, and it's chalk and cheese.


----------



## Enthusiast

Knorf said:


> Ooooh! Maderna! I haven't heard that one. I'm intrigued.
> 
> >Makes a note to look for it.<


One of my favourites and quite unlike any other. Do try to hear it.

Meanwhile, I am sure I will already have posted my other favourites in this thread. But I probably didn't mention Norrington. It probably isn't one of my favourites but it is a fine performance.

No-one has mentioned Nor


----------



## flamencosketches

^Norrington did Mahler 9?  I'll have to see it to believe it.

Edit: just as I was sure that no matter what he did with it, it must have infuriated people, I found this scathing review:

http://www.classicstoday.com/features/ClassicToday-NorringtonMahlerNinth.pdf

:lol:



ZeR0 said:


> I'm afraid I'm not at all as well versed in recordings of Mahler as many others, but the recording I have of Leonard Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic performing the 9th, I cherish.


No shame in that, Bernstein/NY on Sony is an excellent recording. It was the first I ever heard.


----------



## Knorf

Ah, David Hurwitz. The infamous wanna-be musicologist and Paladin In Defense Of All Glory That Is Vibrato.

Also, a colossal jackass. 

I find his reviews to be rarely trustworthy, especially his negative reviews. If a performance or recording doesn't confirm precisely to his very narrowly defined, specific expectations, or is from a musician he hasn't heard of already, you can expect an acidic polemic. He has absolutely zero flexibility.

On the other hand, if you know and agree with his specific expectations, you can trust when Hurwitz praises a recording. 

His assessment of Norrington is totally useless. Whatever is good in a Norrington performance, Hurwitz will never, ever perceive it or acknowledge it. (My guess is Norrington couldn't care less about Hurwitz or his opinions, however.)

Having said that, I personally wouldn't expect to like Norrington in Mahler very much myself, but I am curious and might give it a try someday. I'll do best my listen with an open mind, if I do.


----------



## Becca

^^Yea verily!!!

P.S. This the guy who said that Horentstein had no business conducting Mahler because he had no clue what it was about.


----------



## flamencosketches

Becca said:


> ^^Yea verily!!!
> 
> P.S. This the guy who said that Horentstein had no business conducting Mahler because he had no clue what it was about.


What on earth was his rationale for that? 

Anyway, agreed, Hurwitz is a moron. Just thought that article was hilarious and worth a share.


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## Knorf

To be fair, he also highly praised Skrowaczewski in general. So gets it right sometimes. It's just that he can be so unnecessarily cruel and nasty! It's like he forgets that musicians are people, with thoughts and emotions that are allowed to be different than his. His crusade against Norrington is just absurd.

Panning Horenstein's competency in Mahler, though. That's pure "wtf" territory!


----------



## HenryPenfold

Hurwitz really lets himself down. He clearly loves music, is passionate about performance, recordings and repertoire and is a very bright, interesting chap. But ..............



Knorf said:


> Ah, David Hurwitz. The infamous wanna-be musicologist and Paladin In Defense Of All Glory That Is Vibrato.
> 
> Also, a colossal jackass.
> 
> I find his reviews to be rarely trustworthy, especially his negative reviews. If a performance or recording doesn't confirm precisely to his very narrowly defined, specific expectations, or is from a musician he hasn't heard of already, you can expect an acidic polemic. He has absolutely zero flexibility.
> 
> On the other hand, if you know and agree with his specific expectations, you can trust when Hurwitz praises a recording.
> 
> His assessment of Norrington is totally useless. Whatever is good in a Norrington performance, Hurwitz will never, ever perceive it or acknowledge it. (My guess is Norrington couldn't care less about Hurwitz or his opinions, however.)
> 
> Having said that, I personally wouldn't expect to like Norrington in Mahler very much myself, but I am curious and might give it a try someday. I'll do best my listen with an open mind, if I do.


----------



## Enthusiast

flamencosketches said:


> ^Norrington did Mahler 9?  I'll have to see it to believe it.
> 
> Edit: just as I was sure that no matter what he did with it, it must have infuriated people, I found this scathing review:
> 
> http://www.classicstoday.com/features/ClassicToday-NorringtonMahlerNinth.pdf
> 
> :lol:


I had seen that (and with his opinions about Horenstein in mind!). According to the Presto site the Gramophone and The Observer both gave Norrington good reviews for his Mahler 9! It is a good performance (and I also enjoyed Norrington's Mahler 1).


----------



## Merl

I'm not sure if myself or anyone else has mentioned this in the thread (can't be bothered reading back through) but Blomstedt's Mahler 9 is a phenomenal recording. Played it again this morning and it impresses every time.









Edit: I've just noticed that Daddygeorge mentioned it on the last page. Soz, DG.


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## flamencosketches

To all the Mahler 9 people out there, a couple of quick questions...:

Do you have a favorite recording that you return to over the others time and time again (say, 9 times out of 10), or do you spend a good amount of time with a variety of recordings, listening to a different one each time, say...?

How frequently do you listen to Mahler's 9th? I have a lot of affection for this symphony, but I don't listen to it frequently by any means—if I'm being honest, I guess I'm afraid of burning myself out on it. Yet I have more recordings of it than any other Mahler symphony. How can I justify this to myself? My rationale is that this is music that hasn't revealed all its secrets to me yet, not by a long shot, and moreover it seems to me that it rewards variety in interpretation. Sometimes I want to hear it as a "great farewell" (à la Bernstein), sometimes I'm up for the journey though the "dark night of the soul" that Barbirolli seems to bring out in this music (he might have seen it as a spiritual sister to the 6th—after all, they are together the only two traditional, instrumental four-movement symphonies in all of Mahler after the first), and sometimes I want to hear it as a grand and radiant transfiguration as Karajan seems to bring across. But all three are completely different; is there a "right" and "wrong" way to deliver this symphony? Is the whole "abiding by Mahler's intentions" of it all somewhat obscured given Mahler never heard the symphony?

Just curious on everyone's thoughts on these matters. Thanks, asking for a friend...


----------



## Allegro Con Brio

flamencosketches said:


> To all the Mahler 9 people out there, a couple of quick questions...:
> 
> Do you have a favorite recording that you return to over the others time and time again (say, 9 times out of 10), or do you spend a good amount of time with a variety of recordings, listening to a different one each time, say...?
> 
> How frequently do you listen to Mahler's 9th? I have a lot of affection for this symphony, but I don't listen to it frequently by any means-if I'm being honest, I guess I'm afraid of burning myself out on it. Yet I have more recordings of it than any other Mahler symphony. How can I justify this to myself? My rationale is that this is music that hasn't revealed all its secrets to me yet, not by a long shot, and moreover it seems to me that it rewards variety in interpretation. Sometimes I want to hear it as a "great farewell" (à la Bernstein), sometimes I'm up for the journey though the "dark night of the soul" that Barbirolli seems to bring out in this music (he might have seen it as a spiritual sister to the 6th-after all, they are together the only two traditional, instrumental four-movement symphonies in all of Mahler after the first), and sometimes I want to hear it as a grand and radiant transfiguration as Karajan seems to bring across. But all three are completely different; is there a "right" and "wrong" way to deliver this symphony? Is the whole "abiding by Mahler's intentions" of it all somewhat obscured given Mahler never heard the symphony?
> 
> Just curious on everyone's thoughts on these matters. Thanks, asking for a friend...


You're not alone. It's my favorite Mahler, my favorite 20th-century symphony, and maybe my favorite symphony ever (though it remains deadlocked with Bruckner 8 for that title). But I rarely listen to it. It's music that is just so achingly personal, so special, psychological, so meaningful, so _sublime_, that I feel it has to be reserved for special occasions. That's the thing with Mahler - though I consider myself a Mahlerian who loves to compare interpretations, I don't listen to Mahler every day like I do with my favorite composer, Bach (heck, I can't go hardly two days without Bach); and I have a tough time relating to those who do. I feel the same about Wagner - tremendous music, but I would never listen to 50 Ring cycles in three months, or whatever other crazy things that Wagnerians do (not judging or anything...). Maybe it's just that such deep Romantic music that engages the emotions so intimately and almost pathologically has an intake limit for me, while some of my other favorites - Bach, Brahms, Schubert, Sibelius, even much modernist music - seem infinitely refreshing for me and I draw spiritual energy from them every time I listen. Mahler is just too special of a composer, with such a limited output, for me to partake in routinely. I had tickets to see Osmo Vanska do Mahler 9 with the MN Orchestra this June, but that fell victim to the virus situation as everything else did. Shame. But to answer your question - no, there is no right or wrong way just as there is no "right" way to perform anything. As of right now Barbirolli hits the nail on the head most convincingly for me, but I'm always game for new ways to go about interpreting Mahler.


----------



## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> To all the Mahler 9 people out there, a couple of quick questions...:
> Do you have a favorite recording that you return to over the others time and time again (say, 9 times out of 10), or do you spend a good amount of time with a variety of recordings, listening to a different one each time,


Giulini/CSO is my go to performance...a tremendous effort...
Walter/ColSO is very fine also, so is Boulez/CSO


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## Knorf

I'm also one of those who can't /won't listen to Mahler 9 very often, as much as I love it. It's too emotionally demanding and too special to me on a deeply personal level. It seems this feeling is widely shared, part of the magic and genius of Gustav Mahler, to communicate so intimately and personally to so many.

The last Mahler 9 I listened to was Boulez/Chicago, definitely one of my favorites.


----------



## Heck148

Knorf said:


> The last Mahler 9 I listened to was Boulez/Chicago, definitely one of my favorites.


That is a superb recording, esp the inside mvts...I don't listen to the finale of M9 too often....I, II, III more often.


----------



## flamencosketches

Great posts, thanks, everyone. So I'm not alone.



Heck148 said:


> Giulini/CSO is my go to performance...a tremendous effort...
> Walter/ColSO is very fine also, so is Boulez/CSO


I'm awaiting Walter/Columbia in the mail. I really want to get Giulini/CSO too. I like what I've heard of it. Thick, creamy orchestral textures. But I'm going to slow my roll on buying Mahler.


----------



## Heck148

flamencosketches said:


> Great posts, thanks, everyone. So I'm not alone.
> 
> I'm awaiting Walter/Columbia in the mail. I really want to get Giulini/CSO too. I like what I've heard of it. Thick, creamy orchestral textures. But I'm going to slow my roll on buying Mahler.


I wouldn't call Giulini/CSO thick or creamy...the texture is very clear, transparent. The big climaxes have shattering power, and the quiet chamber-music like passages are presented with stunning virtuosity and clarity. Check out the end of mvt 2, the viola, horn, bassoon, contrabassoon passages are amazing... nothing like it!! Giulini's somewhat more lyrical, "poetic" approach, paired with the CSO's extreme dynamic, rhythmic aggressiveness made a fine combination.


----------



## flamencosketches

Heck148 said:


> I wouldn't call Giulini/CSO thick or creamy...the texture is very clear, transparent. The big climaxes have shattering power, and the quiet chamber-music like passages are presented with stunning virtuosity and clarity. Check out the end of mvt 2, the viola, horn, bassoon, contrabassoon passages are amazing... nothing like it!! Giulini's somewhat more lyrical, "poetic" approach, paired with the CSO's extreme dynamic, rhythmic aggressiveness made a fine combination.


OK, I'll take your word for it. I didn't listen to all that much of it. I will try and check out that moment you mention.


----------



## perdido34

flamencosketches said:


> To all the Mahler 9 people out there, a couple of quick questions...:
> 
> Do you have a favorite recording that you return to over the others time and time again (say, 9 times out of 10), or do you spend a good amount of time with a variety of recordings, listening to a different one each time, say...?
> 
> How frequently do you listen to Mahler's 9th?


It was the first Mahler I ever heard, and it's the Mahler symphony I return to most often. I listen several times a year, or whenever I encounter a new recording. I own probably 20 different performances, but the ones I listen to the most are these:

Royal Stockholm Phil/Gilbert: Heartfelt performance, and incredibly clear sound in SACD multichannel

Concertgebouw/Haitink (1987 Kerstmatinee, not the Phillips version) I have the CD, but here's the video: 




Szell/Cleveland (live performance)

Bernstein/NY (Sony)


----------



## flamencosketches

perdido34 said:


> It was the first Mahler I ever heard, and it's the Mahler symphony I return to most often. I listen several times a year, or whenever I encounter a new recording. I own probably 20 different performances, but the ones I listen to the most are these:
> 
> Royal Stockholm Phil/Gilbert: Heartfelt performance, and incredibly clear sound in SACD multichannel
> 
> Concertgebouw/Haitink (1987 Kerstmatinee, not the Phillips version) I have the CD, but here's the video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Szell/Cleveland (live performance)
> 
> Bernstein/NY (Sony)


I watched Haitink conduct Mahler's 9th w/ the BPO on the Digital Concert Hall, a performance from I believe 2017. He sure knows that score inside and out. It's something of a signature piece of his it seems. I really enjoyed it.


----------



## flamencosketches

The Karajan/Berlin Live recording is really something special... I listened to it again this morning. I think this would be a good recording to show the Karajan naysayers who claim that he approaches all music in exactly the same way. 

Now I'm seeing some people say that his studio is even better... what gives? What do YOU think? I never would have seen myself collecting all these Karajan Mahler recordings, but so far I have enjoyed everything I've heard.


----------



## Enthusiast

^ It may be harder to get under the skin of Karajan nay-sayers! I quite like his Mahler 9 and I'm certainly not a Herbie nay-sayer but it is very far from being in my - all very different from each other - Top 5 Mahler 9s or even on the reserves bench! For me Karajan didn't do his best work in Mahler.


----------



## flamencosketches

Enthusiast said:


> ^ It may be harder to get under the skin of Karajan nay-sayers! I quite like his Mahler 9 and I'm certainly not a Herbie nay-sayer but it is very far from being in my - all very different from each other - Top 5 Mahler 9s or even on the reserves bench! For me Karajan didn't do his best work in Mahler.


What are your top 5? I've only heard 3 recordings-Karajan/Berlin live, Bernstein/NY & Barbirolli/Berlin. All great for their own reasons.


----------



## Enthusiast

^ I think I posted them earlier in this thread. I hope I come up with the same ones now! I believe them to be 

Boulez
Maderna
Klemperer
Horenstein (Vienna but the LSO one is very good, too)
Walter (Vienna, 1938)

The substitute bench has Haitink, Barbirolli and Gielen. There are quite a few others that I enjoy - and one or two that I really don't - but I could live happily with my team of five and three subs!

I know many rate the Karajan highly and fair enough. I just didn't think it has it in it to convince the nay-sayers.


----------



## flamencosketches

Enthusiast said:


> ^ I think I posted them earlier in this thread. I hope I come up with the same ones now! I believe them to be
> 
> Boulez
> Maderna
> Klemperer
> Horenstein (Vienna but the LSO one is very good, too)
> Walter (Vienna, 1938)
> 
> The substitute bench has Haitink, Barbirolli, Gielen and probably Jansons.


Nice, thank you. I've heard none of those, but I do have the Klemperer as part of his Mahler box. Think I owe that one a listen next, or perhaps the recently acquired Walter/Columbia.


----------



## pianozach

*I've never heard it.*

Well, maybe I have, but simply don't remember it. My LP collection has been in boxes for over a decade, and I may actually have *James Levine* conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra.

In fact, I don't have much Mahler in my digital collection at all - just three works (although that is an hour's worth), 
Karl Anton Rickenbacher: Bamberg Symphony Orchestra
..... Totenfeier (Funeral Rites)
..... Blumine
..... Symphony #10 - Adagio

all from the CD *Nicolai: Symphony In D, Overtures • Mahler: Symphonic Movements*

But I find the prospect of listening to it daunting. I cued up the YouTube live video of *Seiji Ozawa*'s final concert as the *Boston Symphony Orchestra*'s Music Director on April 20, 2002. And then I went to several websites to learn about it first, and I've skimmed through this thread, only to find a single mention of *Ozawa*, without comment.

And it's ironic that I'm cowed by the prospect of listening to an 85 minute symphony that's been voted the *4th Best Symphony* of all time . . . after all, I don't give a second thought to listening to *Tales From Topographic Oceans* by *Yes*, a four movement rock epic in four movements that clocks in at around 80 minutes.

Anyway, I'm going to give it a go today.


----------



## pianozach

Well, that was nice.

Not entirely what I was expecting.


----------



## flamencosketches

^I wouldn't have recommended the 9th as a good starting place for Mahler—speaking personally, it was the last of his symphonies I listened to. I don't think I would have cared much for it if it was the first I listened to. But I am glad you liked it. It is a damn good piece of music.


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## Knorf

You never know what might hook someone. I first knew Mahler's Symphony No. 1, and wasn't bonkers over it but liked it a lot. Enough to want to investigate the others. I checked an LP set out the city library; it was Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic Orchestra in Mahler Symphonies 6 & 9.

I put on The Sixth (as Alban Berg would say) first.

My life was instantly changed forever. I simply didn't know music could be like that! And thus began my lifelong Mahler obsession.


----------



## pianozach

Knorf said:


> You never know what might hook someone. I first knew Mahler's Symphony No. 1, and wasn't bonkers over it but liked it a lot. Enough to want to investigate the others. I checked an LP set out the city library; it was Leonard Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic Orchestra in Mahler Symphonies 6 & 9.
> 
> I put on The Sixth (as Alban Berg would say) first.
> 
> My life was instantly changed forever. I simply didn't know music could be like that! And thus began my lifelong Mahler obsession.


I've read that Bernstein recorded Mahler's 9th twice.

So, one thing I really enjoy was Mahler starting a couple of the movements as though he was Happy Beethoven, then just wandering off the edge from there.

Oh, and the orchestrations are stellar.


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## Knorf

Bernstein actually made three authorized recordings of Mahler 9, two with the NYPO in the analogue era, one of those for video, and one with the Concertgebouw for DG in the digital era. That one is my favorite. There's yet a fourth, a posthumous live recording with the Berliner Philharmoniker, released also on DG. That one I don't recommend for a few reasons, but some people prefer it despite numerous errors in the performance, in particular a really bad one when the trombones missed their entrance at the climax of the 4th movement. Or did they come in early? I forget.


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> Bernstein actually made three authorized recordings of Mahler 9, two with the NYPO in the analogue era, one of those for video, and one with the Concertgebouw for DG in the digital era. That one is my favorite. There's yet a fourth, a posthumous live recording with the Berliner Philharmoniker, released also on DG. That one I don't recommend for a few reasons, but some people prefer it dispute numerous errors in the performance, in particular a really bad one when the trombones missed their entrance at the climax of the 4th movement. Or did they come in early? I forget.


Just yesterday I got in the mail the Bernstein/DG Mahler cycle and I think I'm going to work my way through it right away. I'll be really excited and curious to hear his Amsterdam 9th. I do love his New York 9th, which was the first I ever heard. Moreover, your story of discovering Mahler via the 6th is a beautiful thing. I think the 6th would have hooked me right away too, especially that Bernstein New York recording. I thought it was interesting that he paired the 6th and 9th together, it seems some conductors seem to view the two symphonies as sisters, which they are in some ways-they're the only two symphonies of "mature" Mahler that are in four-movement, all-instrumental symphonic form, for starters.


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## perdido34

Bernstein also recorded the Ninth with Vienna for video.


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## Knorf

perdido34 said:


> Bernstein also recorded the Ninth with Vienna for video.


You're right. I said above it was NYPO, but that's wrong, it was Vienna. Just me me being confused and forgetful. Apologies. I feel especially dumb becuase I own this thing on DVD!


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## Knorf

The four Mahler 9s from Bernstein:

New York Philharmonic. 1965. 
Vienna Philharmonic. 1971.
Berlin Philharmonic. 1979. (Released posthumously.)
Concertgebouw. 1986.

Of these, my favorite is the last.


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## starthrower

flamencosketches said:


> Just yesterday I got in the mail the Bernstein/DG Mahler cycle and I think I'm going to work my way through it right away.


Let us know your favorites from this set. I bought it a couple years ago but for some reason I've neglected it. The sound on some of the discs didn't thrill me. And I didn't care for part one of No.8. It's a bit too much for my taste.


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> The four Mahler 9s from Bernstein:
> 
> New York Philharmonic. 1965.
> Vienna Philharmonic. 1971.
> Berlin Philharmonic. 1979. (Released posthumously.)
> Concertgebouw. 1986.
> 
> Of these, my favorite is the last.


Looks like he even did one with the Israel Philharmonic, a live recording from 1985:










Lenny had much love for the 9th!


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> Looks like he even did one with the Israel Philharmonic, a live recording from 1985:
> 
> Lenny had much love for the 9th!


Concert bootleg, I assume?


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## flamencosketches

starthrower said:


> Let us know your favorites from this set. I bought it a couple years ago but for some reason I've neglected it. The sound on some of the discs didn't thrill me. And I didn't care for part one of No.8. It's a bit too much for my taste.


Will do, Star. Thanks for the opinions. From what I've heard already, 5 and 6 are excellent. I'm excited to spend time with the rest of it. I'm going to finish working through the New York cycle before I start it. Giving it a full listen for comparison purposes (& great enjoyment).


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> Concert bootleg, I assume?


Can't tell if it's a radio recording or just a live recording, but it was recorded in Japan during Bernstein's tour with the IPO.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> Can't tell if it's a radio recording or just a live recording, but it was recorded in Japan during Bernstein's tour with the IPO.


It's gotta be an unauthorized bootleg. Bernstein was exclusive to Deutsche Grammophon at the time.


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> It's gotta be an unauthorized bootleg. Bernstein was exclusive to Deutsche Grammophon at the time.


I expect it's been licensed. Helicon is a legit record label that has put out many Israel Philharmonic recordings.


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> I expect it's been licensed. Helicon is a legit record label that has put out many Israel Philharmonic recordings.


Possibly posthumously, by his estate. But not by him when he was alive.


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## flamencosketches

Knorf said:


> Possibly posthumously, by his estate. But not by him when he was alive.


No, certainly not that. It was only released relatively recently. It's more along the lines of Testament's numerous reissues of licensed recordings from long-dead conductors.

Anyway, it's supposed to be a smoking performance. Anyone heard it?


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## Knorf

flamencosketches said:


> Anyway, it's supposed to be a smoking performance. Anyone heard it?


I'm sure it is. Bernstein didn't do things halfway, especially not Mahler!


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## Brahmsianhorn

My favorite Bernstein M9 is the 1971 VPO video. I don’t think it was released on CD.


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## Enthusiast

It is strange to me to see many loving the Bernstein Concertgebouw 9th - it is one example (I can't think of many others) where I feel Lennie was just too indulgent. I find it both tedious and nauseating - I don't like it at all! Perhaps there is an austerity to the 9th that I am unwilling to sacrifice. I do probably like more of Bernstein's DG recordings than most people - his Sibelius, even his Enigma Variations) - so it is not just that I don't like his late work.


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## Knorf

Enthusiast said:


> It is strange to me to see many loving the Bernstein Concertgebouw 9th - it is one example (I can't think of many others) where I feel Lennie was just too indulgent.


As always, _de gustibus non est disputandum_. I will say, it's not the Mahler 9 I turn to the most. That would be Abbado/Berliner or, recently, Iván Fischer or Boulez. But Bernstein's with Concertgebouw had a powerful effect on me when I first heard it!


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